RV-Archive.digest.vol-go
March 12, 1999 - March 18, 1999
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry" <larryjenison(at)voyager.net> |
Would like to talk to someone who has completed wing mod. on type 1 spar of
pre 1984 RV-3. I've talked to Van's about rivet edge distance , top and
bottom spar caps. Orginal drawings show 1/4" from edge of spar to C/L of
1/8" rivet. Mod calls this to be drilled out to 3/16" , this breaks edge
distance rule of 1-1/2x dim. of hole. Van's response is that wing was tested
in this manner. I'm just a little uncomfortable with breaking this general
rule , on the most cirtical structural part of any airplane. Any
thoughts,commits would be helpful Thanks Larry Jenison RV-3 93JP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
Listers - Many thanks on the suggestions on how to repair my cowl goof up. I
think I will combine all your answers and press on. I am going to trim the cowl
to fit properly and then drill a new set of rivet holes between the old ones.
Then I will fill the old ones with a resin /flox mix. I figure that the mix
should do double duty as it will not only fill the holes but help tie the hinge
to the cowl better.
One last question before I head to the work shop to get itchy and sticky. Should
I bed the hinge on a layer of fiberglass mat as I am final riveting? I watched
Fiberglass 101 and think that the instructor mentioned this but he was speaking
about bonding wood to fiberglass. Will it work with metal?
Thanks again for all your help. I may fly yet - inspite of all my mistakes :-)
DGM RV-6
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
>Is this partial throttle Take-Off a no-no? Must one always use full
power?<
Louis,
The Lycoming Flyer says to always use full throttle. You can get a copy of
the "Key Reprints" from any dealer or directly from Lycoming. They
generally give them away at OSH and Sun n Fun as well. Lots of good info
here.
Page 8 gives the short answer to your question: ..."In fact, harm to the
engine can be caused by using less than take-off ower."
The issue is proper cooling of the engine in high power / low speed
conditions. The extra fuel flow at full power is essential for proper
cooling, especially in tightly cowled engines such as an RV. This is also
why you do not lean an engine prior to takeoff except when necesary to
obtain adequate power at higher altitudes.
Page 39 goes on to explain: "Extra fuel, sesible airspeed, and cowl flaps,
if available, are all helpful in keeping cylinder head temperatures within
desired limits during takeoff or climb."
Scott A. Jordan
80331
fuselage waiting for a warm day
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Tank Vent Tube |
Richard,
>1) Feed in the tube, put the nut and collar of the flare fitting in the
last
compartment (closest to access plate). Bend the tube in this compartment
so
as to enable tube to be flared in the tank compartment.<
This should work but be careful not to crimp the vent line.
>2) Flare the tube outside the tank and then (with fittings slipped on) try
and feed the tube into the tank from the access hole.<
I have seen this done, worked fine. Again, work slow and avoid crimping
the tube.
Another possibility...Feed the tube through the hole in the inboard rib
where the vent line exits. I believe the flare will fit through the hole
and the nut / sleeve can be added to the line in the first bay.
A note to RV-8 builders who find themselves in the same situation:
This should work on the -6 but not as well for those of you biulding -8's.
In the -8 tank, the vent line is not a straight shot from the inboard rib
to the first interior rib (as it is on the -6) and Louis #2 method would
probably work best.
Scott A. Jordan
80331
fuselage waiting for a warm day.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Take -off power |
>My 0-360 RV-4 has a climb prop and is like a dragster on take off and
>climb. I have gotten into the habit of giving it about 2/3 power on take
>off to avoid looking like I am showing off and to help keep smoother
>control on 25 foot wide runways. Is this partial throttle Take-Off a no-no?
>Must one always use full power?
>
>Louis
>
>P.S. No, I don't have a halo. I show off from time-to-time when there is
>an audience. All I have to do is squeeze in the power all the way and the
>beast is flying before I pass over the numbers. Then I fly down the 7000'
>runway at 10' AGL, and... you know the rest of the story. (But I don't
>climb out at over 45 degrees)
>
>Louis
>
Louis and all,
Sorry, this is on the long side, imagine that......
Glad to hear you are having fun...... The standard flight instructor (read
FAA) answer is, "full power is to be used for all take-offs." The sooner
that you get to altitude the more options you have available. Having said
that The airlines use reduced power take-off settings. They do it based on
being able to achieve certain climb performance given engine failure at a
critical point. We singles give that up at the hanger door, but still it is
our responsibility to minimize our time spent in the area of no options.
The more important consideration, often forgotten, on this subject is engine
cooling. . If you could visualize that at normal cruise you are indicating
150 kts. At 75% you are pulling 135 hp. Suppose in that configuation you
have 100 units of air passing thru the cowling per second. Now pull back on
the stick and climb at 75 kts indicated, same power ( with C/S). I am not
an engineer, plenty on this list are, but now you have waaaaaaaay less than
100 units of cooling air passing through the cowling. That cooling air
needs to be replaced by additional fuel vaporization cooling.
This is especially important on fuel injected engines. If you watch the
manifold pressure and the fuel flow they will rise togather as you advance
throttle to about the 75% position. Then the MP stops rising and the fuel
flow continues. This is for take off enrichment. At the time when your
engine is working the hardest the cooling is the least. So your engine uses
fuel instead of air to cool the cylinders. If you stop advancing the
throttle at field barometric pressure, about 75% throttle postition
depending on your field elevation, then you could be running at nearly max
power with a very lean mixture.
If you have a fuel injected engine with a fixed pitch prop like I do it gets
even more interesting. I have to manage fuel flow either with the throttle
or the mixture to keep from bogging the engine down with too much fuel . As
I accelerate I have to be very careful not to get too lean because the HP is
increasing as my RPM increases. ( another editorial)
With your carb this may be less of a concern, I don't know if Marvel carbs
have an enrichment valve, someone else will know that answer. The point is
you want to make sure that your EGT is running well cool of what it runs
during cruise when you are climbing for the stars at 70 kts. We have a RV-6
with O-360 and C/S here I have flown it and watched the temps. It is cowled
tightly and runs warm in summer. It will run the coolest temps climbing at
wide open throttle. Pulling the power back makes it run hotter and you have
to do it longer to get to altitude.
If you are trying to baby your engine by using less power, don't. Baby your
engine by the way you add and remove the power. Not by how much power you
use.
So after all this what would I recommend? Do what I do... Give her hell and
let the spam can drivers drool!
Staring at the Stars!!!!!!
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick E. Kelley" <patk(at)megsinet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Vent Tube |
Richard Dall wrote:
> I am in the process of riveting the ribs of the fuel tanks. I have only to
> rivet the last rib of each tank (the end rib - the one without the access
> plate) and was now going to install the vent tube....oops..forgot about the
> nut fitting at the flared end of tube...too big to fit through snap fitting
> holes.
Have you already installed the fitting on the end rib? If not, then flare the
fitting outside the tank, put the collet and nut in place by reaching through
the access hole, and feed the tubing through the fitting hole. The flare itself
will easily fit through the hole. If you have already pro-sealed the fitting in
place, you might still consider breaking it free. Otherwise you risk kinking or
breaking the vent line.
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crowbar protection |
>
>I visited several alternater shops to have my alternater deregulated -
>cheapest price $130.
Gee, you must live in the really high rent district.
You can by a whole alternator for that much. How about
leaving the built in regulator and adding external
ov protection per:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bleadov.pdf
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
< When deprived of facts, >
< our fantasies are generally >
< much worse than reality. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
Doug,
I think the plans discuss the need to drill extra holes in your hinge
and to bed the hinge in a 1 ply lay-up of fiberglass. This will give
the hinge more grip to the cowling. The hinges will be subjected
to a great deal of vibration and without the extra grip, the vibration
may eventually loosen the rivets holding the hinge on. In any
event, it won't hurt anything to lay-up the extra ply.
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6
"Ready for Paint"
-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas G. Murray <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Cowl repairs
>
>Listers - Many thanks on the suggestions on how to repair my cowl goof up.
I
>think I will combine all your answers and press on. I am going to trim the
cowl
>to fit properly and then drill a new set of rivet holes between the old
ones.
>Then I will fill the old ones with a resin /flox mix. I figure that the
mix
>should do double duty as it will not only fill the holes but help tie the
hinge
>to the cowl better.
>
>One last question before I head to the work shop to get itchy and sticky.
Should
>I bed the hinge on a layer of fiberglass mat as I am final riveting? I
watched
>Fiberglass 101 and think that the instructor mentioned this but he was
speaking
>about bonding wood to fiberglass. Will it work with metal?
>
>Thanks again for all your help. I may fly yet - inspite of all my mistakes
:-)
>
>DGM RV-6
>Southern Alberta
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> |
Listers . . . as you probably have seen, the latest issue of Sport Aviation
has an excellent article on the 8A, including one picture that is
phenomenal. It turns out EAA sells many of their pictures . . . the
following is their price structure:
PHOTO REPRINT INFORMATION
5 X 7 Color print - $9.95 (plus shipping)
7x10 Color print full frame - $19.95 (plus shipping)
8 x 10 Color print - $19.95 (plus shipping)
12 x 18 Color print - $34.95 (plus shipping)
20 x 30 Color print - $85.00 (plus shipping)
12x18 Inkjet Poster - $34.95 (plus shipping)
16 x 20 Inkjet Poster - $ 60.00 (plus shipping)
20X30 Inkjet Poster - $ 75.00 (plus shipping)
36x60 Inkjet Poster - $150.00 (plus shipping)
I contacted the following person, who was most helpful:
Bonnie Bartel
bbartel(at)eaa.org
For those of you who want to grace your shop with that "head on" picture of
the "8A", please wait a few days before contacting Bonnie . . . I want my
order filled first!!!
Rick Jory
Highlands Ranch, CO
8A tail kit should arrive any day
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HELP Noisy Brakes |
If they work all right, keep using them. Here are some important
things which I have learned;
1. Make sure you have the new springs from Tom Green.
2. Mine (and lots of others) did the same thing. After about 20 to 50
landings with braking they quieted down, for the most part.
3. Since this is a common phenomenom. (despite what Cleveland and
Van's says); I would suggest you:
a. Make sure you have full brake capability (Can hold the
plane at mag check), carefully check the brake assembly after each
flight to be absolutely sure no overheat.
b. Keep flying and have fun until it heals itself.
c. Give to those who come out to watch the fighter pilot's
secret sign of friendship.
This worked for me and is a lot more fun than fiddling with them and or
doing "brake conditioning" exercises, which just heat up and wear out
the brakes.
D walsh 532 landings and only an occasional squeeal/groan.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: air regulator; the real reason for having one |
In a message dated 3/11/99 11:49:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
zilik(at)bewellnet.com writes:
<< You are right in calling it an air regulator because that's all it does;
regulate how much air gets to the tool. It wont change the air's
pressure. >>
Actually it will, but only dynamically, while air is actually flowing thru the
valve. This occurs due to pressure drop across the adjustable obstruction. A
flow control (which is what it is really called) is not a good substitute for
a good pressure regulator but it is better than nothing and functions as a
poor man's regulator. So would a long section of small ID hose.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry" <larryjenison(at)voyager.net> |
| Subject: | RV-3 Pre 1984 Plans |
If anyone would have a set of pre 1984 RV-3 building plans I would like to
get copies of certain pages I'm missing. I've talked to Van's they cannot
find a set. If anyone can could help I would be happy to pay.
Thanks, Larry Jenison RV-3 93JP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Luker, Michael G." <luker.michael(at)mayo.edu> |
| Subject: | RV6A brake pads. |
I need new brake pads for my RV6A, has anyone ordered these lately that
might have the part number for Wicks or Aircraft SPruce. thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 03/10/99 |
<< uestion, I am prepairing to drill the skin on my V/S for a RV-4. Is the
skin supposed to overhang at the spar? I know it does by 1/2" at the top, but
it overhangs by 1 inch all the way along the spar.
Thanks. >>
To the mystery person, the answer is yes. Look a little closer at your plans
and I think you will find what you are looking for there. I dont have my plans
handy but I remember having the same problem with my Horizontal stab and
someone pointed out the overhang dimension to me.
Ryan Bendure Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | RV-bookstore now Builders Bookstore |
RV-ation Bookstore is now BUILDERS BOOKSTORE
Please take a moment and check it out. The new URL is:
http://www.buildersbooks.com
I think it is a tremendous improvement:
It is a lot easier to get around
It is now fully secure for credit card orders
It has a lot of new items
It just looks better and works better
Please go in and take a look. You don't have to buy anything; but just
click in and tell us what you think. We are really happy with the new
layout and now know that it should have been this way from the start.
Andy Gold
Builders Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert B. Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com> |
| Subject: | RV-3 Pre 1984 Plans |
Larry-
I have SN45 and I am planning on making a set for a fellow RV-3er who
acquired a bird with no plans for reference. Let me know what pages you
need and I'll see what I can do, not sure when I'll get to it?
Rob Reece
RV-3 SN45 (completed CN-2-1 on left wing, now doing CN-1)
Socorro, NM
505-835-5716/3644
Rob Reece
Rocket Propulsion Test Facility
c/o EMRTC
NM Tech Mail Station
Socorro, NM 87801
(505) 835-5716
(505) 835-5299 fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert B. Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com> |
Larry-
I found a contradiction from the literature sent with CN-1(rear spar
attachment/rear spar carry through mod) and CN-2(main spar mod). In CN-1 it
state something like "enlarging the holes in the spar flange strips to the
next bigger size will reduce the spar strength by 2%," something to that
effect, and in CN-2, you are doing just that by drilling out the -4 rivets
and replacing with -6, and putting in the AN-3 bolts for the angle?
When you call Vans on the subject, there are few there who even know what
you are talking about on the mods, and none who really know much detail
about the original design from the plans (as evedent from your attempt to
locate a set of type 1 spar plans from Vans). The best person to talk to is
obvious, Van himself, but that is usually not possible unless you write a
letter. The next person who is somewhat knowledgeable and usually willing
to listen and help is Bill Benedict. Other than that, your best bet is to
contact past builders (which by the way, I have a email listing of about 15
or so).
Give me a call if you'd like to talk more about the CN-2 mod on type 1
wings. I'm no expert, but I'm in the process of doing it and have talked to
others on the subject. I did deviate from CN-2, after talking to Bill or
Tom at Vans, and mentioning it to Andy Hanna one of the engineers, in that I
have dry wings, so getting a 5lb bucking bar through to the d section and
getting a good shop head and correctly driven -6 rivet through 1+ inch of
material was a concern to me. So, I substituted the -6 rivets on the bottom
spar flange with AN3 bolts and AN365 nuts. Should be much stronger and I
only give up about a 1lb or so per wing.
There are several other "mods" that should be done to the RV-3 that I'm
doing, one is a safety 3-point bracket on the outer aileron bracket. It's
easy to do and can be retrofitted easily to completed wings. I was at Casa
Grande AZ this last weekend at a fly-in and saw a -3 there that had the
older wings and sure enough, he had the bracket mod done. . .made me feel
better knowing that it was done and looked like a very good installation.
Blue skies!
Rob Reece
RV-3 SN45 (starting CN-1)
Socorro, NM
505-835-5716/3644
Rob Reece
Rocket Propulsion Test Facility
c/o EMRTC
NM Tech Mail Station
Socorro, NM 87801
(505) 835-5716
(505) 835-5299 fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Hormann" <dhormann(at)gte.net> |
I think I've got some of that lying around somewhere. I'll give it a shot,
although I was pretty impressed with the way the electrician's tape worked.
I could pound a bunch of rivets and with the little bit of oil that's on the
set from the gun, it easily came off.
Thanks for the great tip!
Doug Hormann
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 1999 5:29 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Flush rivet set
>
>
> >
> >I started riveting my HS last night after ripping open the box from
> >Avery
> >and extracting the flush swivel rivet set. I used Scott McDaniels
> >idea with
> >the electricians tape and it worked great! Definately worth the money
> >IMHO.
> >
> >Doug Hormann
> >RV-6
> >Hillsboro, OR
> >
> -
> What I usually recommend is clear plastic packing tape. It is quite
> tough and works well for any kind of rivet set. Get the good quality 3M
> stuff. It is thicker (lasts longer) and doesn't tear as easily (easier
> to remove when you need to change it).
>
>
> Scott McDaniels
> These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
> reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
>
>
> ---------
>
> ---------
>
> ---------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ian Kerr <ikerr(at)macromedia.com> |
>
>In a message dated 3/11/99 10:43:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>fwalker(at)insurquote.com writes:
>
><< being new to this, (I
> just sent for my tail kit and have a long way to go) what should i look for
>when
> i go back? >>
>Look for a couple hundred bucks and RUN back to buy up the lot as fast as you
>can
>
Then, drop them over in my driveway, and I'll give you a couple hundred
bucks profit for your trouble.
:-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marc Guay" <marcrv6a(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HELP Noisy Brakes |
>
>1. Make sure you have the new springs from Tom Green.
>
What new springs? I am new to this group (join yesterday) and I am
flying a RV-6A since september 98. I now have almost 60 hours and the
aircraft is flying very well. My brakes do squeal sometimes but not
always but I am curious as to the statement for the new springs.
Thanks in advance for the info.
Marc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
Anyone using an engine Pre Oiler? Can you share the details please?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Just a note to let you know you're not alone. I wasn't happy with the
initial fit of my cowl and ended up redoing ALL of my cowl hinges.
Other than the hassle of redoing them I wasn't too worried about it, I
just drilled between the old holes and bonded the new hinges on during
riveting with resin/flox. The goop oozed out through the old holes and
I sanded it smooth after it hardened. I really doubt there will be a
problem later on from doing this -- it's fiberglass after all and
filling and patching and bonding is what the stuff is all about.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (instruments/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Hunter" <ozzy(at)better.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: flight manual (Australia) |
G'Day Listeners,
For Aussie builders have you tried the SAAA for a draft copy flight manual ?
$5.00 only.Or are you after data to complete the blanks ? I did download a
manual from a Canadian RV site some time ago , can't find it at the moment,
will keep you posted if interested.
Regards Brian
Brian Hunter -Southport Qld RV-6 Finishing kit next week here.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gamma Sigma Pvt Ltd <gammasig(at)pci.co.zw>
Date: Thursday, 11 March 1999 20:00
Subject: Re: RV-List: flight manual (Australia)
>
>HI YOU GUYS,
>I ALSO HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM, PLEASE ADVISE WHEN YOU RECEIVE THE INFO YOUR
>LOOKING FOR.
>
>GRAHAM LEATHES - RV6 IN ZIMBABWE
>
>>Hi Karl,
>>could you let me know if you get any responses to this as I am in the same
>>position?
>>Where abouts are you?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Royce Craven
>>
>>>
>>>Dear listers downunder,
>>>
>>>I'm getting very close to the final inspection(101.28) and would like to
>>>know how other RV6 owners have written
>>>up their flight and maintainance manual (or obtained a copy thereof)
>>>
>>>cheers
>>>Karl RV6A almost flying
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>G. S. LEATHES
>Gamma Sigma Pvt Ltd
>e-mail: gammasig(at)pci.co.zw
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8a Pictures |
Don't forget the picture of N58RV on http://BowenAero.com -- suitable
for your computer desktop.
larry(at)BowenAero.com
---Rick Jory wrote:
>
>
> Listers . . . as you probably have seen, the latest issue of Sport
Aviation
> has an excellent article on the 8A, including one picture that is
> phenomenal. It turns out EAA sells many of their pictures . . . the
> following is their price structure:
>
> PHOTO REPRINT INFORMATION
> 5 X 7 Color print - $9.95 (plus shipping)
> 7x10 Color print full frame - $19.95 (plus shipping)
> 8 x 10 Color print - $19.95 (plus shipping)
> 12 x 18 Color print - $34.95 (plus shipping)
> 20 x 30 Color print - $85.00 (plus shipping)
> 12x18 Inkjet Poster - $34.95 (plus shipping)
> 16 x 20 Inkjet Poster - $ 60.00 (plus shipping)
> 20X30 Inkjet Poster - $ 75.00 (plus shipping)
> 36x60 Inkjet Poster - $150.00 (plus shipping)
>
> I contacted the following person, who was most helpful:
>
> Bonnie Bartel
> bbartel(at)eaa.org
>
> For those of you who want to grace your shop with that "head on"
picture of
> the "8A", please wait a few days before contacting Bonnie . . . I
want my
> order filled first!!!
>
> Rick Jory
> Highlands Ranch, CO
> 8A tail kit should arrive any day
>
=
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternate vacuum source |
Question to the list: Is any type of vacuum regulator needed? More specifically,
using manifold pressure as an alternate source, is there any need to reduce
the magnitude? Say that I merely plumb in a valve that goes to either source.
When I pre-flight and check for alternate vacuum function, will there be any
consequences when I change to alternate source when the engine is running at
some low MAP? Will the instruments accept a step change in vacuum from say
5 to 15 inches?
Rudimentary explainations accepted
Thanks in advance
Brian Eckstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Barnes <skytop(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: air regulator question |
Mitch, here's another tip. Once you have set a few rivits and you like the
results, drive the rivit set into the heel of your hand and get a feel for
it. Back off the air flow two clicks and do it again. If your regulator is
like mine, you will realize a big difference. This is how I do the initial
setup of the gun every time without having to do "practice rivits."
Tom Barnes -6 canopy.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mitch Miller <jonkarl(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thursday, March 11, 1999 9:38 PM
Subject: RV-List: air regulator question
>
>in my kit of tools from avery i got a brass air regulator with no
>instrctions or directions. i am using a 2x gun and the regulator is
>made of brass with 6 possible settings. i also have regualator at
>cambell haus. 25 gal tank. what settings do i use?? thanx guys, bob in
>arkansas doin the tail, well, sorta :)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Seal |
> << One more suggestion on the gap seal. Back rivet it to the skin (on
the
> bench) before applying the skin to
> the structure for final riveting. Use the Avery offset back riveting
tool.
This will only work if the top skins are riveted to the wings before the
bottom skins.
Beware here, the manual I have says to rivet the gap seal as described
above AND it says to rivet
the bottom skins on first. Hard to imagine how this sequence would be
possible, as one needs to peel the skin back to rivet. Maybe someone has
found a way.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HELP Noisy Brakes |
> > BUT .. My Brakes make the loudest sound I have heard on application.
> > Vibrates the floor. People come out of hangers to see what is going
on.
> > Has
> > been compared to a B-24 on the ground. At all speeds, all
applications,
> > they
> > howl.
I have had several cars with disc brakes that occasionally would, at
moderate, slow speed braking, make shaking and grinding noises that felt as
though the wheels were going to fall off (really hard to believe how bad it
was). I traced it to being parked in strong winds, where dirt and grit
would blow into them. I was able to
eliminate the symptoms by rubbing the disc pads on sandpaper on a flat
surface. Of course, the next big wind and the problem would recur. I
don't know why this happens, just that after a windy day they will do it.
Since RV brakes see a lot of unavoidable wind during taxiing, together with
prop eroding grit, I thought my experience with cars might be relevant. If
the same thing is going on with your plane, perhaps some sort of baffle
might prevent it. Please let us know if you cure the problem.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | : Fuel Tank Vent Tube |
writes:
>
>Dear Listers
>
>I am in the process of riveting the ribs of the fuel tanks. I have
>only to
>rivet the last rib of each tank (the end rib - the one without the
>access
>plate) and was now going to install the vent tube....oops..forgot
>about the
>nut fitting at the flared end of tube...too big to fit through snap
>fitting
>holes.
>My options seem to be:
>1) Feed in the tube, put the nut and collar of the flare fitting in
>the last
>compartment (closest to access plate). Bend the tube in this
>compartment so
>as to enable tube to be flared in the tank compartment.
>or
>2) Flare the tube outside the tank and then (with fittings slipped on)
>try
>and feed the tube into the tank from the access hole.
>Has anyone had to do this?
>Option 3 might be to remove the rib with the access hole... but it is
>not an
>option I would look forward to.
>
>Many thanks in anticipation.
>
>Richard Dall
>rdall(at)clinipath.net
>RV6
>Perth,Western Australia
>
Rich:
I think you can bend the inboard end enough to flare & then bend it back
to install..
Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Noisy Brakes (Part 2) |
The Saga continues, and is heading to a good end.
Today I had conversations with a Cleveland Brake Tech Rep (again), and Bill B
at Vans. We went over the problem, and all the things tried to date.
Cleveland said this problem is one for the books, and they don't have any
ideas. So send the whole mess to Vans and Cleveland will replace it under
Warantee. So Called Bill, and a complete package of wheels, brakes and
bearings went on a UPS truck.
Another confirmation of the quality of the organization and policies of Vans
A.C. and their suppliers.
Bruce Patton
RV-6A
596S with 5 Hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Take -off power |
Tom,
Larry Miller is a former F-4 WSO. He has an older 160 hp RV-4 (purchased,
not built.) He has been impatient for me to get mine flying because he
can't find anyone around here to formate with. He says he will kick my ass
in BFM. I beg to differ :)
I envy your Rocket. Let's join up over some convenient landmark when we
both have flying airplanes.
Tom Craig-Stearman
-----Original Message-----
From: Gummos <tg1965(at)linkline.com>
Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 12:42 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Take -off power
>
>Tom,
>
>>
>>On the other hand, I paid for 200 ponies. I don't plan to leave 50 of
them
>>in the barn on takeoff. Or on climbout. Or on the up line. Or when
>>waxxing my ex-F-4-jock buddy's tail.
>>
>
>Which ex-F-4 buddy are you talking about? :-)
>My plane will have 250 ponies and I hope I remember how to use them.
>My guess is that this plane may T.O. before I am able to get the power
lever
>fully forward.
>
>Tom Gummo
>ex-F-4G, Wild Weasel Pilot
>HR II, 90% done with 90% to go.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 prototipe accident |
In a message dated 3/12/99 3:05:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,
sylvain(at)duford.com writes:
<< The RV-8 report also mentions that there was a sharp pitch-up *AFTER* the
wing separated, I think that is highly unlikely. >>
I believe that the "witness" reported the noise(similar to a shotgun blast)
prior to the pitch up. I could see where the pitch up and wing separation
would have appeared to have happened simultaneously. Since sound travels much
slower than light, it also stands to reason that the sound made by the
fracturing wing would have taken some time to reach the witness. This, along
with an "untrained" eye, could easily account for this testimony. do not
archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cd005677(at)mindspring.com |
| Subject: | Re: avery label product |
----------
>From: donspawn(at)Juno.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: avery label product
>Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999, 5:52 PM
>
> is name is Steve Davis, and he is sending me a sample of the one
> that I am having him do for me. I will post pictures of the sample on my
> website Friday.
>
> The process he uses is a 1/16" acrylic overlay that has a heat formed
> colored backing on it(any color you want). He then etches the back side
> of
> the panel, thus removing the color in the shape of the letters. He then
> paints the etched letters with lumenicent paint, and then you can put
> fiberlites between the panel and the overlay. He does it all with a CNC
> machine, including cutting the alluminum of your panel to match the holes
> on
> the overlay. I plan on doing this...Pictures on my website will come...
>
> He can be reached by email at: panelcut(at)aol.com
> I do not have his phone number with me....he is working on a website to
> promote his work..should be done soon..
Steve is local to me, and the work I have seen is impressive. He has done
two RV-8 panels and an RV-6 locally as well as the Thunder Mustang and a lot
of certified panels. One nice feature is that he first cuts a panel in
plexiglas so that the fit of everything can be checked. This is relatively
easy and cheap with his CAD/CAM equipment. When everything is just right,
he cuts the final panel in aluminum (and the plastic overlay)
He went through 3 plexi panels on Frank Hoover's -8 before everybody was
happy.
His web site is up already. I think the URL is
www.panelpilot.members.aol.com or something like that--I forgot to bookmark
it and it seems to have scrolled out of my browser.
James Freeman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Ellison TBI Ordering |
Hi all,
I'm in the process of ordering an Ellison TBI from Aircraft Spruce, and
they're asking me questions that I can't answer. I'll probably end up
calling Ellison Monday, but I thought I'd see if anyone on the list
knows the answers first.
This will be used on a new O-360-AIA from Van's, in an RV-8.
1- (This is the easy question) Engine max RPM? I think it's 2700 RPM.
2- Throttle position A or B ? This question refers to a sketch on their
web page, but I just don't quite understand the choice. The sketch is
at:
http://www.ellison-fluid-systems.com/products/orders/order_form.htm
If anyone can figure this out (or has already had to figure it out
themselves), I'd be interested in hearing the answer.
Thanks,
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (Fuselage bulkheads)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Ashton <kjashton(at)vnet.net> |
I saw a Midget Mustang where the builder had installed an Oilamatic
(sp?) pre-oiler with the electric motor removed. It was actuated by a
battery operated screwdriver before start from beside the cowling. Neat
idea and lighter-weight. However, on Lycs, it doesn't do any pre-oiling
of your cam. That's a weak link.
--Kent Ashton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Ashton <kjashton(at)vnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crowbar protection |
PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I visited several alternater shops to have my alternater deregulated -
> cheapest price $130.
CONTACT magazine (#46) had a good article by paul messinger on how to
modify alternators. You might get a back issue. It's pretty easy once
you've seen the wiring. try CONTACT editor Mick Myal at
contact1(at)flash.net or messinger at paulm(at)tenforward.com
--Kent A.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 prototipe accident |
-----Original Message-----
From: lucky macy <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 prototipe accident
>
>I'm new to this list and to RVs and I can easily imagine this is not a
>question everyone may be comfortable with and would just as soon forget.
>But for the sake of us newbies who's wives and maybe even ourselves
>might need some more info, could we discuss it just a bit further?
>
>This common answer (overstressed) bugs me just a little. What type of
>flying and circumstances would have beeng going on in the factory plane
>to cause this overstress?
>
>Was it most likely a repeated circumstance or just a one time event?
>
>In otherwords, could anyone come up with an actual scenario that the
>prototype was put through to have caused this?
>
>Not meaning to ruffle any feathers but for piece of mind looking for
>some tangible information....
>
>lucky
>>best
>>guess as to the cause is a simple overstress.
Lucky et al:
As Tom Craig-Stearman has said, simple overstress is likely what happened.
As to the question of "how", here are some thoughts.
The control stick has been referred to as the lever which, when pulled makes
the houses get smaller and when pushed makes them larger again. It is also
the wing removal lever. There is one basic reason for this and it is common
to all aircraft. It is this: an airplane wing, under some conditions, is
able to produce more lift and the loads that go with it, than it has
strength to resist. Some would argue that this is not universally true in
the real world and they could be correct, but for the kind of airplanes we
fly, it must be considered to be true.
The lift a wing can produce increases as the square of the speed. That is,
if the speed is doubled, the lift available is increased by four. If the
speed is tripled, the lift can increase by nine. If you move the elevator
so as to produce four or nine times the lift as described above, the wing
would experience four or nine times the load.
The starting point for this process is the unaccelerated stalling speed of
the wing since this is where the max lift is produced, with wings level and
no pullup. Whatever this speed is for a particular airplane, if we go
twice or three times as fast, then we get four or nine times the lift (load)
when we maneuver to stall the airplane. From this it can be seen that a
low stalling speed makes it easier to produce high loads on the aircraft
structure. If we have a 45kt stalling speed, we can develop 4g loads at
90kt. If we have a 70kt stalling speed, we must reach 140kt to develop the
4g's. If 1g stall is 45kt, then 135kt can produce 9g's. To do this with a
70kt stall, 210kt is required to produce 9g's before stall. Now it gets
interesting. The 45kt aircraft above only needs to reach 180kt to be able
to develop 16g's. The 70kt bird can reach 16g's at 280kt. I do not know of
any 70kt stall aircraft (without geometry change) that have level flight
speeds as high as 280kt. The RV series aircraft however, do have max level
flight speeds in the neighborhood of 180kt. Usually a bit less, but close.
The wings are designed to not break at loads up to 9g's so we may conclude
that above a certain speed (approx 135kt) we may pull the lever and thus
remove the wings.
Now you say, "Why would anyone do that?". The answer is that we wouldn't,
but it shows that "simple overload" is fairly easy to accomplish.
All of the above supposes there is no aileron input. There was a thread
recently about rolling pulls that I don't think was satisfactorily resolved.
Think about it this way: If we are pulling 5g's without roll input the
wings are sharing the 5g loads equally. If we roll vigorously, all the
while sustaining 5g's, the wing with the down aileron must carry a larger
share of the load. If it does not, then we are either not rolling or we
are no longer pulling 5g's. If the roll is violent enough, one wing will
carry substantially more load than the other. This is a way to break one
wing.
If you have ever fallen out of a screwed up aileron roll you know that
speeds which are high to begin with get even higher pretty quickly. One can
end up inverted with the nose very low. Now we have the scene set up for a
rolling pull.
We will never know what happened to the RV-8 and I will not speculate. But
from the above one can imagine possible scenarios. One must have complete
respect for the limitations of the airframe and the limitations of the
pilot. The RV series aircraft just beg to be maneuvered and they maneuver
very well. But you must show respect.
The above is a simplified description. We didn't mention the effect of
variations in weight for instance but the principles are the same. We
didn't talk about other possible design elements, mission requirements etc.
I once owned a sailplane that stalled (without flaps) at 38-40kt. It was
redlined at 130kt. When tuned for competition the stick forces in pitch at
130kt were probably less than 2 pounds per g. It was supposed to have an 8g
wing. At those speeds I braced both elbows on my thighs and held the stick
with both hands, using slight flexing of the wrists to effect pitch changes.
There was no doubt in my mind that I could have removed the wings in the
blink of an eye.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 prototipe accident |
-----Original Message-----
From: lucky macy <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 prototipe accident
>
>I'm new to this list and to RVs and I can easily imagine this is not a
>question everyone may be comfortable with and would just as soon forget.
>But for the sake of us newbies who's wives and maybe even ourselves
>might need some more info, could we discuss it just a bit further?
>
>This common answer (overstressed) bugs me just a little. What type of
>flying and circumstances would have beeng going on in the factory plane
>to cause this overstress?
>
>Was it most likely a repeated circumstance or just a one time event?
>
>In otherwords, could anyone come up with an actual scenario that the
>prototype was put through to have caused this?
>
>Not meaning to ruffle any feathers but for piece of mind looking for
>some tangible information....
>
>lucky
>
>
>>From: "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net>
>>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>To:
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 prototipe accident
>>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 22:03:38 -0600
>>
>
>>
>>Pablo,
>>The accident investigation is complete. The break showed no evidence
>of
>>flutter or prior failure. Van's Aircraft static-tested a
>customer-built
>>wing to nine Gs at two different loading conditions and it held. My
>best
>>guess as to the cause is a simple overstress.
>>
>>I am not at all worried about the RV-8 design. I plan to build one as
>my
>>next project.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Tom Craig-Stearman
>>RV-4 nearing completion
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Hi, my name is Pablo, and I am starting to build my RV-8 empennage by
>now.
>>>Anybody have any idea about the reasons for the wing break of the
>N58RV?
>>Any
>>>news?
>>>I am a little worried.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HELP Noisy Brakes |
Marc Guay wrote:
>
> >
> >1. Make sure you have the new springs from Tom Green.
> >
> What new springs? I am new to this group (join yesterday) and I am
> flying a RV-6A since september 98. I now have almost 60 hours and the
> aircraft is flying very well. My brakes do squeal sometimes but not
> always but I am curious as to the statement for the new springs.
> Thanks in advance for the info.
>
> Marc
>
Yo Marc. I am sending you a message at length, as I don't want to start up a
long bunch of threads which will occur about this subject. Please check the
archives.
It is my subjective opinion that if you have groaning brakes or dragging brakes
you should check the return springs on the master cylinders. Tom Green at
Van's did have a supply of new stiffer springs which are available for the
asking, which is what I was recommending. If all you have is occasioinal
squeaking I doubt if you need them.
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
Where is the "Oilamatic" found ??? There must be a source so as to inquire
about other models etc. etc.
Ed Storo RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A brake pads. |
In a message dated 3/12/99 9:35:20 AM Pacific Standard Time,
luker.michael(at)mayo.edu writes:
<>>
IMO the Cleveland parts are clearly superior to the Rapco replacements in both
appearance and wear. The lining P/N is 66-106 (you need four) and the rivet
P/N is 4-6 (you need 12) and of course the rivet set for your squeezer from
Cleaveland Tool or Avery's.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LKDAUDT2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Take -off power |
Doug:::
Can you imagine " 5000 ft per min ROC" Eat your heart out and check your
Six.
LK
"YOUR TURN IS COMING:::::::::::::::::
PS. Pleeze watch for a IO540/300hp for me,,,OKAY?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Derek Reed" <dreed(at)cdsnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flight manual (Australia) |
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Hunter <ozzy(at)better.net.au>
Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: flight manual (Australia)
>
If you are looking for a POH[pilots operating handbook] there is one at
www.villagenet.com/~scottg/poh.html for an RV6A , compliments of Scott
Gesele that may be suitable for you.
Derek Reed RV6A
Grants Pass OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV8DRIVER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8;Observations |
Maybe putting the pilot in the back seat would work.
________________________________________________________________________________
Does anyone have the website for the new engine that is diesel powered? Also
is the Cevy V6 a carb or fuel injected? Will it have a mixture control?
Justin Wallace&Don Mickleson
rv6a tail section
LA,california
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott M Weddle <weddle2(at)Juno.com> |
I would like to unsubscribe. Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com> |
> I think the official term is not "third wheel up-front" but
> "training wheel"
> ;)
NOSE DRAGGERS! ;
)
Do not archieve
Rob Reece
RV-3 SN45
Socorro, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Lightspeeds--thumbs up? |
RV guys, I asked the list some time back about the Lightspeed 20K headset and
the overall response that I got was that they were a good buy and worked
great. I just recently got a 20K and while I have not flown it many times I
have been very pleased with it. On the Kitfox list several guys complain that
the Lightspeeds do not live up to billing and that there is a lot of
squealing, background noise esp. during transmissions and low output from the
mic. Aviation Consumer Reports gave them a high rating and I was wondering if
anyone else on this list has had a bad response from the Lightspeed ANR
headset. Oh, they also said on the Kfox list that they would not work with the
ICOM handhelds despite the fact that is what I use mine with and with no
problems. It seems a lot of RV people have been flying the Lightspeeds so what
yall think--thumbs up or down? JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <doug.gray(at)hlos.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Seal |
Rob,
What do you mean by the Avery "offset back riveting tool"?
Is this the 10" long snap with the little kink in the end or a new Avery
gadget?
Doug Gray
forever straightening RV6 wing ribs
>
> One more suggestion on the gap seal. Back rivet it to the skin (on the bench)
before applying the skin to
> the structure for final riveting. Use the Avery offset back riveting tool.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Kellar" <rjkellar(at)softcom.net> |
I have decided to use analog engine guages except for CHT and EGT. They are
less expensive and my old style brain relates to a pointing needle better
than digits. My question is, "What Brand?" Aircraft Spruce and Vans have
several brand names to choose from and prices are somewhat comparable.
So...what is the groups experience? Westach vs. Mitchell vs. Issapro vs.
Rochester vs. etc. All opinions will be appreciated from "ye wise ones".
Off list replies are fine. Thanks. Bob Kellar
rjkellar(at)softcom.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ellison TBI Ordering |
<< 1- (This is the easy question) Engine max RPM? I think it's 2700 RPM.
2- Throttle position A or B ? This question refers to a sketch on their
web page, but I just don't quite understand the choice. The sketch is
at:
>>
Russ,
I havent seen any other answers thus far so here goes. Your engine
max RPM may be limited by your prop selection, but for most aplications
2700RPM would be your max.
Answer 2. You want position A. At least you do if you position yours the
way I did mine. This is assuming that your throttle quadrant is on the left
side of the airplane. Should you choose B you can make that work to.
I think you will be pleased with your choice once the installation is
complete.
Good luck,
Ryan Bendure Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datasync.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeeds--thumbs up? |
I have just sent mine back in for repair for the 3rd time. The first time I was
getting a loud squeal everytime I keyed the mic. The next time, one side was
losing the noise reduction. This time, it was eating batteries after 2 or 3
minutes and the control was getting hot. I got a total of about 3 hours use
out of them since I got them. The guy at lightspeed was very nice and said they
don't get many returns, and I have been unlucky. If anything else goes wrong
with them you will find the parts scattered across Mississippi. I also have
a set of the marv golden anr headsets. They are about 300.oo and have worked
flawlessly for the six months Ihave had them. The lightspeeds are more comfortable,
and work just as well, when they work. I haven't heard of anyone else
having as many problems as I have had. MAybe it was just the luck of the draw?
I was going to upgrade to the 25k's from the 20k's, but I think I will hold
off until I see how the next ones they will send me!
will work.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Mills <tmills(at)powerup.com.au> |
| Subject: | Lycoming crankshaft A/D |
Please Help !!!!!! Today we were to take delivery of our RV6, but we noticed
an A/D in the maintenance release that has to be done by next month, the exact
number I have lost from memory.
However we were told it was a crankshaft check. Could someone please let me know
what this involves and what the possible ramifications are, as we have held
the sale till we have cleared this matter up.
I would ask for replies to my home e-mail address below as well the list, I will
not be at my office till next Tuesday where I receive the list.
I would very pleased to hear from the gentlemen in the know as I would hate to
let this aircraft go if there is no need to. ( I just love the way it fly's)
Thank You
Trevor Mills 80605
tmills(at)powerup.com.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
On-list replies are also appreciated. I was wondering the same thing.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
Designing panel layout RV-6A
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Kellar [mailto:rjkellar(at)softcom.net]
I have decided to use analog engine guages except for CHT
and EGT. .... My question is, "What Brand?" Aircraft Spruce and Vans have
several brand names to choose from ... Westach vs.
Mitchell vs. Issapro vs.
Rochester vs. etc. All opinions will be appreciated from
"ye wise ones".
Off list replies are fine. Thanks. Bob Kellar
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ellison TBI Ordering |
> I havent seen any other answers thus far so here goes. Your
engine
>max RPM may be limited by your prop selection, but for most aplications
>2700RPM would be your max.
> Answer 2. You want position A. At least you do if you position yours
the
>way I did mine. This is assuming that your throttle quadrant is on the
left
>side of the airplane. Should you choose B you can make that work to.
> I think you will be pleased with your choice once the installation is
>complete.
> Good luck,
> Ryan Bendure Co.
Ryan,
Thanks for the response.
As for answer 1, I'll be using the Sensenich Prop, which I understand is
not RPM limited for the O-360.
Answer 2: Is the main difference between position A and B where you put
the throttle quadrant. If so, that complicates things a bit. I'm left
handed, and planned to put the quadrant on the right, but I've noticed
that the baggage compartment may complicate the cable routing enough to
make this difficult. I'm not far enough along to know if I'll be able
to put the quadrant on the right as desired.
Thanks again,
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (Starting floor section)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Parker43rp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ellison TBI Ordering |
Why don't you call Ellison and deal directly with them?
Question 2 has to do with which side of the carb that you want to locate the
throttle control.
Ray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kathy & Bill Peck" <peck(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming crankshaft A/D |
Trevor -
At a guess, it may well be the same A/D that we needed to deal with on the
O-320 (160 HP) on our Cherokee. It seems that a few of these had an
internal crankshaft corrosion problem at the front, which can cause trouble
with the prop flange. (This Lycoming series has a hollow crank - I believe
the O-360's tend to have solid cranks to handle the extra loads...) This
A/D causes you to have to pull the prop, pull the "freeze plug" in the front
of the crank, inspect for any corrosion, coat it with a "goop" (some form of
epoxy, I think - bear in mind this was done by an A & P since its a
certified aircraft - I didn't do the work myself, even "under
supervision"...), then install a new plug.
I haven't heard of anyone in our area actually finding any rust behind the
plug, but then again we do live in a pretty benign climate from a corrosion
standpoint (Pueblo, CO). I HAVE, however, heard of one fellow RV builder
(he's about to get the airworthiness inspection done on his RV-4) that had
the new plug blow back out on his Thorp T-18, which then allowed the engine
to pump the entire sump content of oil out the front of the crank and
consequently across his windshield. Instant IMC! Landing was accomplished
by looking out the side of the canopy, but it took a while to get everything
cleaned up, both inside & outside the cockpit. No long-term damage to him,
the plane, or the engine that we know of. Moral of the story - make sure
the plug's in correctly!
The A/D didn't take all that long to comply with, so wasn't "very"
expensive, and in my opinion you're not highly likely to really find a
problem - maybe go ahead with the deal, but write into the contract that
you'll split any cost of complying with the A/D??? That might at least
share any risk. It'll be interesting to hear what others on the list have
to say...
Bill & Kathy Peck - RV-6A(Q), doing the 90% done, 90% to go projects while
we wait for the engine & finishing kit...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 3/12/99 7:27:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, ERSF2B(at)aol.com
writes:
<< Where is the "Oilamatic" found ??? There must be a source so as to inquire
about other models etc. etc. >>
This and so much much more info awaits you at the "RV Builders' Yeller Pages".
Just plug this term into your browser and you're there.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HAROLD1339(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming crankshaft A/D |
I just had my 150 hp Lycoming checked for the crankshaft buildup. The AD reads
to only apply to the 160 hp engine, but they both have the same shaft and
should both be checked. The shaft is hollow and with a fixed pitch prop no oil
circulates thru the end of the crank and stuff can build up in this area and
cause pitting of the crank. The prop must be pulled and the stuff cleaned out.
Mine had 50% of the shaft full of the stuff, but with no visible pitting yet.
Please have you mechanic check this as it could lead to problems. I have a
RV-4 that I bought about 3 years ago and have been very pleased with it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Boris <smbr(at)digital.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming crankshaft A/D |
I know of one current AD on Lyc hollow cranks that has to be done (it
may not be yours) - we just went through it on our A150/150 towplane.
The front plug/seal needs to be removed and the hollow front part of the
crank checked for sludge and rust buildup or damage. Not too bad and
easy to check. After, you'll need a new plug (looks like very large
washer minus hole).
Trevor Mills wrote:
>
>
> Please Help !!!!!! Today we were to take delivery of our RV6, but we noticed
an A/D in the maintenance release that has to be done by next month, the exact
number I have lost from memory.
> However we were told it was a crankshaft check. Could someone please let me know
what this involves and what the possible ramifications are, as we have held
the sale till we have cleared this matter up.
> I would ask for replies to my home e-mail address below as well the list, I will
not be at my office till next Tuesday where I receive the list.
>
> I would very pleased to hear from the gentlemen in the know as I would hate to
let this aircraft go if there is no need to. ( I just love the way it fly's)
>
> Thank You
> Trevor Mills 80605
> tmills(at)powerup.com.au
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kathy & Bill Peck" <peck(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine gauges |
Bob, Steve, & others -
This one can generate almost as many comments & suggestions as asking what
kind of primer to use! The final analysis comes down to personal
preference, but I'll at least tell you what triggered our decision - maybe
the thought process will help with yours.
Major variables that we tried to consider included:
1. I like the appearance of "aircraft style" gauges/mounting, using 2 1/4"
holes with a 4-bolt square mounting pattern around it, as opposed to
"automotive style" installation in 2 1/16" holes with a "U" clamp on the
back of the gauge. Admittedly, the auto style is "easier" to install
(assuming you can REACH the back of the gauge!).
2. I like the appearance of having the gauges all from the same
manufacturer, and we wanted to load the panel up with lots of bells &
whistles. This limited the brand selection quite a bit - not everyone has a
line that covers all the selections (oil temp/press, fuel level, volts/amps,
CHT/EGT, etc...)
3. I wanted to light the gauges internally, as opposed to using post
lights. (Boy, does that add a bunch to the price tag of the gyro
instruments!) There are also some "ring" lighting kits (fiber optic)
available that clamp between the gauge & dash - might get this job done too.
Or, if you're planning day VFR only, who cares????
4. Quality/reliability is certainly a factor, but it's hard to evaluate
via catalogs. RV-list archives and talking to other builders are probably
the best source here. I "winged" it - the instruments we bought look ok,
and are fairly light, but the jury's still out on real quality - I'll let
you know in a few years!
5. Price tag has to get considered, obviously. Although, compared to the
price of the engine, you can't find the money you spend on gauges. That
probably encourages spending a little more to make sure you do the best you
can to protect the engine investment...
6. In keeping with the "lots of bells & whistles" theme, we selected
several "dual" gauges - two movements in the same case. Twice as many
functions per hole cut in the dash. For you guys building -4's, this has
even more value - you don't have as many square feet of space as the -6 & -8
have! Again, this limits the number of brands. Of course, the "monitors"
can really pack a lot of info into a small amount of real estate (for a
price!).
After thinking through the above factors, we ended up buying Westach analog
gauges for as many of the functions as we could. Since that happened, I got
a new Aircraft Spruce catalog that shows the Microflight brand, too - they
have a lot of choices, also - may have been a candidate if I'd seen them in
time. I'm trying NOT to go back & look - hate to chance causing "buyer's
remorse"!
I hope this helps you sort through the fog. I spent quite a bit of time
trying to pull together lists of what we wanted to acomplish, who had what,
etc. I like the looks of what we ended up with - if it works well too we'll
be home free! Good luck on applying your own preferences to the process -
after all, that's why we're all building RV's instead of buying Cessna's,
right???!!!
Bill & Kathy Peck, RV-6A(Q), laying out a masonite "fit-up" dash before I
cut holes in Van's aluminum part!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-3 Wing Mods |
As I recall, I used a thin round file (less than 1/8"; or was it a mill bit in
the drill?) to make the 1/8" oval towards the center of the spar cap, before
drilling to 3/16".
This is not need for the bolt holes on the top spar cap, unless you intend to
pull serious negative G's. These bolt holes are along the top edge of the top
spar caps. Thus the upper edge of the top cap is in compression when pulling
positive Gs, so for that matter the holes could be all the way up to the edge,.
The only purpose of the bolts are tension (holding the angles to the spar caps),
not shear.
Finn
Larry wrote:
>
> Would like to talk to someone who has completed wing mod. on type 1 spar of
> pre 1984 RV-3. I've talked to Van's about rivet edge distance , top and
> bottom spar caps. Orginal drawings show 1/4" from edge of spar to C/L of
> 1/8" rivet. Mod calls this to be drilled out to 3/16" , this breaks edge
> distance rule of 1-1/2x dim. of hole. Van's response is that wing was tested
> in this manner. I'm just a little uncomfortable with breaking this general
> rule , on the most cirtical structural part of any airplane. Any
> thoughts,commits would be helpful Thanks Larry Jenison RV-3 93JP
>
> Matronics: http://www.matronics.com
> RV-List: http://www.matronics.com/rv-list
> Archive Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
> Archive Browsing: http://www.matronics.com/archives
> Other Email Lists: http://www.matronics.com/other
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Tyrrel <charliet(at)vcn.com> |
Can anyone tell me the location of the hole in the firewall for the prop
governor control cable?
Thanks,
Gillette Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Reynolds <RVReynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: gretz pitot mount location |
Cappucci, Louis wrote:
"I have warren gretz's pitot mounting kit, and i would like to install
it next to the outboard rib, in the next bay outboard of the tie-down
point"
I am building a RV-6A. I installed the pitot tube mount 2 inches
inboard of the rib at station 83.5 which makes the connections and
adjustments accessible from the bellcrank access hole. I moved the
wing tie bracket (W422) 10 inches further outboard to the next angle
at station 88.5 to avoid the tie down ropes becoming entangled with
the pitot tube.
It is easier to move the tie down bracket (422) before any of the
skins are installed!. However, the most difficult hole to drill is the
span wise hole thru the side of the angle because it is difficult to
get the drill between the ribs or to use the longer drill in the next
bay. Use a 3/16 to 1/8 (#30) drill bushing made from steel brake line
tubing purchased at the local auto store to pilot the holes for the
tie down bracket in the next outboard angle and then enlarge to 3/16.
If you hve a 12" 3/16 bit it might be easier. Then proceed with the
recomened installation of the pitot tube mount.
I used a short length (3 inches) of straight 1/4 aluminum tubing to
transition from the flare fittings of the pitot tube (AN819-4D, 37
degree flare) to a 1/4 compression union elbow (brass, Parker 165C-4
or equal) and to the comression nut (brass, Parker 61C-4 or equal) on
the plastic tubing. Get the little brass insert that fits inside the
plastic tubing to use with the plastic sleeve on the tubing. (Icebox
ice maker stuff).
Alignment: With the wing out of the jig and flat on saw horses or
installed in the fuselage, set the top edge of the rear spar 3.03
inches lower than the top edge of the main spar (see SK-59 in Fuselage
Section 8). Then align the barrel of the pitot tube level.
Good Luck!
Richard Reynolds, RV-6A, Norfolk, VA, skinning fuselage, finally!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 prototipe accident |
Gordon or Marge Comfort wrote:
> All of the above supposes there is no aileron input. There was a thread
> recently about rolling pulls that I don't think was satisfactorily resolved.
> Think about it this way: If we are pulling 5g's without roll input the
> wings are sharing the 5g loads equally. If we roll vigorously, all the
> while sustaining 5g's, the wing with the down aileron must carry a larger
> share of the load. If it does not, then we are either not rolling or we
> are no longer pulling 5g's.
Only when you start and stop the roll do you add accelleration loads to the
wings. At a constant roll rate wings share equal loading.
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cd005677(at)mindspring.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeeds--thumbs up? |
----------
>From: lottmc(at)datasync.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Lightspeeds--thumbs up?
>Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999, 4:06 AM
>
> The lightspeeds are more comfortable, and work just as well, when they
> work. I haven't heard of anyone else having as many problems as I have
> had. MAybe it was just the luck of the draw?
I have a pair of Lightspeed 20K and a bose series II--I generally prefer the
lightspeeds. I haven't had any trouble at all and am getting 30-40 hours out
of a set of two AA batteries. However, two lightspeeds at our airport have
gone back for repair. The impresssion I've gotten is that they have had
intermittent quality control problem (?maybe related to rapid growth) but
have flawless customer service. I think it is an excellent product and
would buy another one.
James Freeman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SPORT AERO <eloveday(at)ici.net> |
| Subject: | Frey Steel Jigs Sun N' Fun discounts |
Listers -
The annual Sun N' Fun discounted price schedule for Frey Precision Steel
Jigs for RV's is now posted on our web site:
<http://home.ici.net/~eloveday>
As much as $200.00 off on selected jigs - PLUS - for LISTERS only -
identify yourself as a lister and take an ADDITIONAL 5% off the posted
discounted price!
Also - come by and visit our booth ( O-20 ) at Sun N' Fun April 11 - 17.
We're looking forward to meeting you all.
Ed Loveday - Sport Aero - Plymouth, MA - (508)747-0061 - eloveday(at)ici.net
RV-6 20181 struggling with emp. fairing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Gray <bsgray(at)ntplx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming crankshaft A/D |
Trevor,
If this is in fact the hollow crank corrosion check AD, then I'd advise you to
tell the prospective seller that you'll have the inspection done at your expense,
by a mechanic of your choice. If NO CORROSION
is found you'll proceed with the sale. If there is corrosion and pitting, then
the deals off. The cost of replacing the crank can be quite high. 2-3k for a
good used crank and then you have to split the
case to install it. At that point you might as well major the engine.
DON'T BUY THE PLANE UNTIL IT PASSES THIS AD.
Bruce
Glasair III builder
Trevor Mills wrote:
>
> Please Help !!!!!! Today we were to take delivery of our RV6, but we noticed
an A/D in the maintenance release that has to be done by next month, the exact
number I have lost from memory.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Browne <cebrowne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming crankshaft A/D |
Trevor,
The inspection might be S.B. 505B, which is the inspection of the flange lightening hole for corrosion. It can be seen at http://www.prime-mover.org/Aviation/Bulletins/sb505.html. There are other
bulletins listed at this site for crankshafts, so knowing the number is a big help.
There is one A.D. listed which is S.B. 300B Crankshaft Propeller Flange Inspection
(A.D. #65-03-03), but I don't know what this is.
Chris Browne
Atlanta
Trevor Mills wrote:
>
> Please Help !!!!!! Today we were to take delivery of our RV6, but we noticed
an A/D in the maintenance release that has to be done by next month, the exact
number I have lost from memory.
> However we were told it was a crankshaft check. Could someone please let me know
what this involves and what the possible ramifications are, as we have held
the sale till we have cleared this matter up.
> I would ask for replies to my home e-mail address below as well the list, I will
not be at my office till next Tuesday where I receive the list.
>
> I would very pleased to hear from the gentlemen in the know as I would hate to
let this aircraft go if there is no need to. ( I just love the way it fly's)
>
> Thank You
> Trevor Mills 80605
> tmills(at)powerup.com.au
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeeds--thumbs up? |
In a message dated 3/12/99 10:56:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, JRWillJR(at)aol.com
writes:
<< Aviation Consumer Reports gave them a high rating and I was wondering if
anyone else on this list has had a bad response from the Lightspeed ANR
headset. >>
I love mine, but did have an incident with the left ANR function going TU
after 1 year of use. I sent it back to them with a description of the problem
and a week later the unit came back and has worked flawlessly ever since.
Bruce said it was a bad solder joint (made in China). I will be upgrading one
of my 20Ks to the new 25K in May.
Count me as Thumbs up,
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: engine gauges |
In a message dated 3/12/99 11:18:44 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rjkellar(at)softcom.net writes:
<< I have decided to use analog engine gauges except for CHT and EGT. They
are
less expensive and my old style brain relates to a pointing needle better
than digits. My question is, "What Brand?" Aircraft Spruce and Vans have
several brand names to choose from and prices are somewhat comparable.
So...what is the groups experience? Westach vs. Mitchell vs. Issapro vs.
Rochester vs. etc. >>
If I were building a low end a/c I might opt for the cheapest gauges that will
do the job. Westach would fall in this category and that's what I used in my
Model 1 Kitfox 10 years ago. Many have had good experiences with the
automotive types (ISSPRO, Stewart Warner, VDO, J.C. Whitney), although they
look so, well .... Automotive. The Mitchell and Rochester gauges look as a/c
gauges should and the small modular ones are really the ticket for the tandem
panel guys. I ended up choosing the VM1000 and have never looked back. It's
only money!
Bottom line: If you're building a VFR fun flying machine, then choose the
best gauges you can afford and be happy with them. They will probably do the
job at a good value.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I just got my Whelen post lights I have questions on the installation.
On the gyros (AG,DG), the mounting holes are tapped 6-32, so it seems that I
can't use the gyro mounting hole for the post light (8-32). The other
instruments accept 8-32 mounting screws so I assume I use the 10 o'clock
hole for the post light.
Thanks.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | ACAD LT97 for sale |
I have a single copy of Acad Lite 97 for Windows
NT/95/98 for sale. $125 postage paid in US.
. . . . just the ticket for using the library
of downloadable wiring diagrams available from
our website. This is new, unregistered, still-
in-the-shrinkwrap software.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
< When deprived of facts, >
< our fantasies are generally >
< much worse than reality. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry E. James" <larryj(at)oz.net> |
| Subject: | Aileron Gap Seal |
I am currently working on the wing trailing edge / control surfaces, and
yesterday came up with another solution for the upper attach of the aileron
gap seal. I was not happy with slipping it between the skin and spar flange
or cutting it off short and adding another row of rivets. I ended up
joggling the gap seal to joggle over the spar flange. This allows the skin
/ rear spar rivets to do double duty and makes these rivets easier to get to
by bending up the gap seal less. Worked out great. My guess is that this
would work regardless of which (top or bottom) skin was put on first.
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Japundza, Bob" <BJapundza(at)ksmconsulting.com> |
Dennis,
I drilled holes for my post lights at the 10 o'clock position outside the
hole pattern for the gyros. Use the four holes to mount the gyro and drill
a fifth hole for the post light.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Persyk [mailto:dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 1999 12:13 PM
Subject: RV-List: Post Lights
I just got my Whelen post lights I have questions on the installation.
On the gyros (AG,DG), the mounting holes are tapped 6-32, so it seems that I
can't use the gyro mounting hole for the post light (8-32). The other
instruments accept 8-32 mounting screws so I assume I use the 10 o'clock
hole for the post light.
Thanks.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gummos" <tg1965(at)linkline.com> |
| Subject: | OverSquare Article |
I am not a mechanical engineer or Navy trained test pilot but I play one on
TV. :-)
However, those are the qualifications of Chuck Berthe and he wrote an
article for
Kitplanes, Sept 95, Is there Life after OverSquare? For all those
non-believers out
there, please find and read this article. Anyway, let me try to restate
what he pointed out about using your engine in the oversquare manner.
His first example had to do with the crankshaft bearing loads: A car
climbing a hill at 60 mph (oversquare) had smaller loads than the same car
coasting down the hill at 60 mph (undersquare). He goes on to prove that
oversquare is safe if you use setting that are listed in the POH.
He then showed the effects of flying at 6500 MSL and 24 inches of manifold
pressure on his RV-4 with an O-320 A1A.
RPM HP GPH MPG Range TAS
2100 125 9.5 20.8 516 196
2200 130 9.9 20.2 505 199
2300 134 10.2 19.8 491 202
2400 139 10.6 19.2 478 204
2500 143 11.1 18.9 471 209
If you look carefully at the Tables numbers, you will find that if you give
up 13 MPH you gain 45 mile in range. He states that if you fly 100 hours
per year you would gain over 2000 extra miles in range.
His final point is that he noticed when he flys oversquare, the EGT runs
about 50 degrees C lower and CHT is slightly lower too. He feels the engine
wear is less.
Let me give you his summary, there are a lot of good reasons to operate
oversquare at low rpm when you have an engine/prop combination that allows
it, and operation is within the limitations outlined by the engine
manufacturer.
Anyway, get and read the article for yourself.
Tom Gummo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell Prop |
| From: | b green <rvinfo(at)Juno.com> |
I agree with Brian's comments. The operating manual for your engine
actually as a graph that shows the maximum acceptable MP to run for a
given RPM, and you can run with more MP than RPM or "oversquare" as it is
called. However, if you are going to get close to the limit here, it
would be wise to make sure that your tach and MP gage are accurate.
Tach's are notoriously inaccurate. I think the old wive's tale is just a
safe rule, but then you deprive yourself of the biggest benifit of a
constant speed prop, to be able to pull the rpm back and leave the mp up
there and enjoy the quiet ride.
Bruce Green
RV-8 preview
>
>>
>>As a rule,,,The MP should never be allowed to be much higher than the
>RPM.
>
>Ahhoooogggaaaa Ahhoooooggggaaa --- Old Wives Tale Alert!!!
>
>I don't know where this started in the dim recesses of time past, but
>this
>is not true. I can think of several aircraft I have flown where
>"high" MAP
>and "low" RPM are normal. I am currently flying an aircraft where it
>is
>normal to run 2000 RPM and 28" of MAP. Another I have flown used 48"
>of
>MAP and 3200 RPM. Lots of radial engines used even bigger
>differences.
>
>And how is this for an example. At sea level your O-320 or O-360 is
>pulling something close to 30" of MAP but with a fixed pitch prop is
>only
>turning 2200 RPM or so at the beginning of your takeoff roll. I
>haven't
>heard of this doing any damage in the past.
>
>Read your engine manual. It will tell you what the limiting MAP is
>for a
>given RPM. Most of our small normally-aspirated lycoming engines have
>no
>limits (other than prop/engine RPM yellow arcs due to resonances).
>
>
>Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
>brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite
>1
>http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA
>95682
>+1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax
> O-
>
>
>
---
>
---
>
---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: air regulator; the real reason for having one |
55-56,60
>
>Actually it will, but only dynamically, while air is actually flowing
>thru the
>valve. This occurs due to pressure drop across the adjustable
>obstruction. A
>flow control (which is what it is really called) is not a good
>substitute for
>a good pressure regulator but it is better than nothing and functions
>as a
>poor man's regulator. So would a long section of small ID hose.
>
>-GV
>
>
What G.V. writes above may be true but never the less this little part in
your tool kit is as importiant to a beginning riveter as is the rivet
gun.
(Lots of stuff in the archives about it).
The short version is that with this little "flow regulator" you can leave
the line pressure from your compressor as high as you want (for running
air drills, etc.) and control your your rivet gun from the flow
regulator. This is much more convienient than trying to use the pressure
regulator on the compressor, and much more precise also.
Turning the the knob on the flow regulator just 1 click will make a very
small change which allows for very precise adjustment.
There is not a specific # value that I can tell you to set it at. You
need to learn to set it up and then you can leave it there while just
making small adjustment when needed.
I recommend that beginning builders get someone else to spend an hr. or
so with them but if that is not possible try this way.
Turn the line pressure way up on the compresser.
Screw the knob way in on the flow regulator (clockwise like tightening a
screw)
With a flush rivet set in the gun, put the set down on a table top and
pull the trigger.
Begin opening the flow regulator (counter clockwise) 1 click at a time
until the gun just starts to go.
Open the valve about 5 more clicks and try driving a rivet.
Continue to open one click at a time until you get to the point were a
rivet fully sets in a count of about 3 seconds from when you first pull
the trigger.
This will have you adjusted to a point that will make the gun managable
for a beginner, and give you a good quality finish .
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
When we used to do the beginning builders classes at Van's we kept a
stock of these in the shop and recommended that anyone without one on
their rivet gun purchase one at that time.
P.S. I do not recommend the little ball valve type valve. It somewhat
does the same thing but you can not make as small and precise of
adjustments. It also is easy to accidently turn the knob without knowing
it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Take -off power |
Is this partial throttle Take-Off a
>no-no?
>>Must one always use full power?
>>
>>Louis
>>
>With your carb this may be less of a concern, I don't know if Marvel
>carbs
>have an enrichment valve, someone else will know that answer.
-
Yes, carb's have an enrichment circuit at full throttle which makes it
prudent to use W.O. throttle for takeoff.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 3/12/99 10:34:24 PM Central Standard Time, RV6aJMW(at)aol.com
writes:
> Does anyone have the website for the new engine that is diesel powered? Also
> is the Cevy V6 a carb or fuel injected? Will it have a mixture control?
>
>
Only one flying that I know of is the deltahawk engine
www.deltahawk.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re:RV-8 Impressions |
Von: Thanks for the info you've been passing on, I'ld love to hear more,
if you are too busy flying instead of writting we all understand.
I would like a little more info on your CG. You stated that with just you
and 1/2 fuel you run out of elevator authority in the flare. Are you using
light weight starter and alternator? How much equipment (weight) is in
your panel? How much weight is in the seat (bubba factor)?
I don't mind ading a little balast to the baggage area for CG concrol when
solo but I would rather not have to do that to fly aerobatics. Sounds like
I will probably have to go with an aft bettery which I was hopping to avoid
(more weight).
Thanks for the info, keep the info coming.
Scott A. Jordan
80331
Fuselage just started
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: HELP Noisy Brakes |
>It is my subjective opinion that if you have groaning brakes or
>dragging brakes
>you should check the return springs on the master cylinders.
-
Actually the very first thing you should do is disconnect the brake
cylinder from the brake peddle.
After doing so check to be sure that the paddle pivots very freely and is
not binding because of bolt miss alignment or from the bolts being to
tight.
With the type of movement ratios between the peddles and the brake
cylinders, any amount of friction can cause a problem.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Prop Governor |
> Can anyone tell me the location of the hole in the firewall for the
>prop
>governor control cable?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Gillette Charlie
>
>
Charlie,
An often used routing is to penetrate the firewall somewhat on the left
side to allow the cable to turn right and cross to the governor along the
fwd side of the firewall.
For any more specific info you will need to at least mention what model
RV you are working on.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
Some humorous tidbits. Many of which could likely be catalyst for heated
debate here on the list, but none the less good food for thought in
provoking a more safe flying attitude.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
Aviation 101
Takeoff's are optional. Landings are mandatory.
If God meant man to fly, He'd have given him more money.
If you push the stick forward, the houses get bigger, if you pull the
stick back they get smaller. (Unless you keep pulling the stick back
-then they get bigger again)
Flying is not dangerous; crashing is dangerous.
It's better to be down here wishing you were up there, than up there
wishing you were down here.
The propeller is just a big fan in the front of the plane to keep the
pilot cool. Want proof? Make it stop; then watch the pilot break out
into
a sweat.
Speed is life, altitude is life insurance. No one has ever collided
with the sky.
It's best to keep the pointed end going forward as much as possible.
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man.... Landing is the
first!
Every one already knows the definition of a 'good' landing is one from
which you can walk away. But very few know the definition of a 'great
landing.' It's one after which you can use the airplane another time.
The probability of survival is equal to the angle of arrival.
Always remember you fly an airplane with your head, not your hands.
Never let an airplane take you somewhere your brain didn't get to five
minutes earlier.
You know you've landed with the wheels up when it takes full power to
taxi.
Those who hoot with the owls by night, should not fly with the eagles
by day.
A helicopter is a collection of rotating parts going round and round
and reciprocating parts going up and down - all of them trying to
become random in motion. Helicopters can't really fly - they're just
so ugly that the earth immediately repels them.
Young man, was that a landing or were we shot down?
Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make
all of them yourself.
Trust your captain ....but keep your seat belt securely fastened.
Any pilot who relies on a terminal forecast can be sold the Brooklyn
Bridge. If he relies on winds-aloft reports he can be sold Niagara
Falls.
Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad
judgment.
Aviation is not so much a profession as it is a disease.
There are three simple rules for making a smooth landing:
Unfortunately, no one knows what they are.
The only thing worse than a captain who never flew as copilot is a
copilot who once was a captain.
Be nice to your first officer, he may be your captain at your next
airline.
Any attempt to stretch fuel is guaranteed to increase headwind.
A thunderstorm is never as bad on the inside as it appears on the
outside. It's worse.
Son, I was flying airplanes for a living when you were still in liquid
form.
It's easy to make a small fortune in aviation. You start with a large
fortune.
A male pilot is a confused soul who talks about women when he's
flying, and about flying when he's with a woman.
A fool and his money are soon flying more airplane than he can handle.
Remember, you're always a student in an airplane.
Keep looking around; there's always something you've missed.
Try to keep the number of your landings equal to the number of your
takeoffs.
You cannot propel yourself forward by patting yourself on the back.
There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old,
bold, pilots!
Things which do you no good in aviation: Altitude above you. Runway
behind you. Fuel in the truck. Half a second ago. Approach plates
in the car. The airspeed you don't have.
Flying is the perfect vocation for a man who wants to feel like a boy,
but not for one who still is.
Asking what a pilot thinks about the FAA is like asking a fireplug
what it thinks about dogs.
Being an airline pilot would be great if you didn't have to go on all
those trips.
Gravity never loses! The best you can hope for is a draw!
--------- End forwarded message ----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel H. Morris" <morristec(at)icdc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine gauges |
>
>I have decided to use analog engine guages except for CHT and EGT.
>
There have been many comments in the past on the ISSPRO instruments and
their propensity to stick, to which I can personnally attest. I would never
buy them again. I have some Mitchel which are good. Westach's EGT and CHT
do not have cold junction compensation, which means that you have to do some
math to get the actual temp.
Dan Morris
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Impressions |
Hi Scott; The weather the last week has been lousy, so have not been
flying. You are correct about the CG. I added about 20 lbs of survival
equipment, sleeping bags, etc to my rear baggage compartment, and the CG
seems to be more in line now. At least I don't run out of elevator. I
think I would rather put some weight in back like I did, and retain the
ability to carry a heavy passenger(by removing the weight), than to put
the battery back there and then have fewer options. Up to each builder, I
guess. I am 170 lbs, basic VFR panel, empty weight 1048 lbs, 0-360, CS
prop. Will post more when the weather allows me to fly.
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>
>Von: Thanks for the info you've been passing on, I'ld love to hear
>more,
>if you are too busy flying instead of writting we all understand.
>
>I would like a little more info on your CG. You stated that with just
>you
>and 1/2 fuel you run out of elevator authority in the flare. Are you
>using
>light weight starter and alternator? How much equipment (weight) is
>in
>your panel? How much weight is in the seat (bubba factor)?
>
>I don't mind ading a little balast to the baggage area for CG concrol
>when
>solo but I would rather not have to do that to fly aerobatics. Sounds
>like
>I will probably have to go with an aft bettery which I was hopping to
>avoid
>(more weight).
>
>Thanks for the info, keep the info coming.
>
>Scott A. Jordan
>80331
>Fuselage just started
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314(at)azstarnet.com (tom sargent) |
| Subject: | Discrepancy between kit & drawing - Trim Tab |
The RV-6A trim tab drawing shows using MD-42-BS pop rivets holding
the the E617 and E618 horns to the trim tab. The kit does not have this
rivet. It does have an MSP-42 which I suspect is the same. I searched the
archives and found this question posted, but not the answer. Wht is a
sunstitute for the MD-42-BS?
Also I found reference to a reinforcing angle (made of a strip of
.032") being added to join the trim tab spar to the .016 skin at the
inboard end. Seems that some trim tab skins were reported to be cracking
around the horn. Is this now recommended?
Thanks,
---
Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OverSquare Article |
Tom,
There is also an excellent article on the AVWEB under maintenance.
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A
awaiting QB
>From: "Gummos" <tg1965(at)linkline.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: OverSquare Article
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:30:35 -0800
>
>
>I am not a mechanical engineer or Navy trained test pilot but I play
one on
>TV. :-)
>However, those are the qualifications of Chuck Berthe and he wrote an
>article for
>Kitplanes, Sept 95, Is there Life after OverSquare? For all those
>non-believers out
>there, please find and read this article. Anyway, let me try to
restate
>what he pointed out about using your engine in the oversquare manner.
>
>His first example had to do with the crankshaft bearing loads: A car
>climbing a hill at 60 mph (oversquare) had smaller loads than the same
car
>coasting down the hill at 60 mph (undersquare). He goes on to prove
that
>oversquare is safe if you use setting that are listed in the POH.
>
>He then showed the effects of flying at 6500 MSL and 24 inches of
manifold
>pressure on his RV-4 with an O-320 A1A.
>
>RPM HP GPH MPG Range TAS
>2100 125 9.5 20.8 516 196
>2200 130 9.9 20.2 505 199
>2300 134 10.2 19.8 491 202
>2400 139 10.6 19.2 478 204
>2500 143 11.1 18.9 471 209
>
>If you look carefully at the Tables numbers, you will find that if you
give
>up 13 MPH you gain 45 mile in range. He states that if you fly 100
hours
>per year you would gain over 2000 extra miles in range.
>
>His final point is that he noticed when he flys oversquare, the EGT
runs
>about 50 degrees C lower and CHT is slightly lower too. He feels the
engine
>wear is less.
>
>Let me give you his summary, there are a lot of good reasons to operate
>oversquare at low rpm when you have an engine/prop combination that
allows
>it, and operation is within the limitations outlined by the engine
>manufacturer.
>
>Anyway, get and read the article for yourself.
>
>Tom Gummo
>
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re:RV-8 Impressions |
I was considering moving my battery aft as well. I'll be using an O-360 with
a c/s prop, and I weigh 220. Most of my flying will be solo. How much of a
CG change do you get from moving the battery aft?
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
>I would like a little more info on your CG. You stated that with just you
>and 1/2 fuel you run out of elevator authority in the flare
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Discrepancy between kit & drawing - Trim Tab |
>What is a substitute for the MD-42-BS?
MSP-42 are the proper rivets.
This is listed on my parts list, but I have an 8, and probably have newer
plans.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 xpndr/com antenna stuff |
G'day listers, especially all you -8 drivers!
A couple of questions about the transponder and com antennas and their
RG58 cables:
1. Is it not a good idea to run the cables together? Will the
transponder generate audible noise in the Com if I do this? Even though
I want to try and place the antennas a few feet apart, I would like to
run the cables, tie-wrapped together, from the antennas, (antennae?) up
behind the panel where they will land mere inches from each other in the
radio stack. (Hah! Yeah right, "stack"...ONE Com and a transponder! ;)
2. Those of you who've installed your antennas, where exactly did you
put them? I have a 45 degree, bent whip com antenna, about 22 inches
high, I think. The transponder antenna is the standard, stubby little
guy that I bought from Bob Nuckolls. No offense, Bob. *toothy grin*
The most logical place I can think of is immediately aft of the 804
bulkhead, but how far apart?
Thanks, oh mighty, intrepid and wise mashers of rivets.
Brian Denk
RV8 #379
Panel finito!
Engine found! Now then...where to get the $$$ Puhlleeeeaase, Mr.
Wallstreet, don't fail me now!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | CG change with aft battery - was RV-8 Impressions |
Moe,
It is easy to calculate the CG change from moving an item of a given weight.
change in CG = distance object moved x weight of object/weight of aircraft
We need to know the weight of the battery (and tray, etc) and the
distance between the forward and aft mounting locations.
Use the aircraft weight for whatever flight condition you are
interested in (i.e. max gross weight, or empty weight, aerobatic
weight, etc)
This simplified calculation does not account for the weight of the
addditional lenght of battery power and ground cable, but those would
be second order effects.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
>
> I was considering moving my battery aft as well. I'll be using an O-360 with
> a c/s prop, and I weigh 220. Most of my flying will be solo. How much of a
> CG change do you get from moving the battery aft?
> Moe Colontonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Thought for this week |
Occasionally we need a reminder that the wonderful hobby we enjoy can
demand an incredible price. With our love of aviation comes the
responsibility of never growing slack in our diligence to always learn
and mature as pilots.
You need to go to the link below:
http://www.buzzardsrow.com/poem.htm
The poem could have been written about one of us, or one of our children
or parents.
Let's fly safe,
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Impressions |
Moe; Without doing all the figuring involved, I would guess that in your
situation with more 'bubba factor' and doing most flying by yourself,
moving the battery to the back would be worth it. Verify this with Vans.
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>
>I was considering moving my battery aft as well. I'll be using an
>O-360 with
>a c/s prop, and I weigh 220. Most of my flying will be solo. How much
>of a
>CG change do you get from moving the battery aft?
>
>Moe Colontonio
>moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
>Check out my RV-8 Page at:
>http://tabshred.com/moe
>
>>I would like a little more info on your CG. You stated that with
>just you
>>and 1/2 fuel you run out of elevator authority in the flare
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8 xpndr/com antenna stuff |
Hi Brian;
I ran my cables completely separate; but then my transponder is on the
left side of the panel, and the radio on the right. Even on top of each
other, I would still run the cables separately to be sure. My Com
antenna is as I recall mounted on the belly about 2" aft of where the
opening for the aileron control rod is on the lower side of the fuse, and
about 2" inboard from the edge. Same for the transponder antenna, except
it is on the other side. Here is the important part; the floorboard in
this area has the dropped area for the passengers foot, so you MUST
remember to place these antennas so that the cable coming up off of them
does not interfere with this floorboard! Ask me how I know! By the way,
how did the VAL com installation work out? You will be happy with it, a
great, clear sounding and easy to use unit! I love it!
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>G'day listers, especially all you -8 drivers!
>
>A couple of questions about the transponder and com antennas and their
>
>RG58 cables:
>
>1. Is it not a good idea to run the cables together? Will the
>transponder generate audible noise in the Com if I do this? Even
>though
>I want to try and place the antennas a few feet apart, I would like to
>
>run the cables, tie-wrapped together, from the antennas, (antennae?)
>up
>behind the panel where they will land mere inches from each other in
>the
>radio stack. (Hah! Yeah right, "stack"...ONE Com and a transponder! ;)
>
>2. Those of you who've installed your antennas, where exactly did you
>put them? I have a 45 degree, bent whip com antenna, about 22 inches
>high, I think. The transponder antenna is the standard, stubby little
>guy that I bought from Bob Nuckolls. No offense, Bob. *toothy grin*
>The most logical place I can think of is immediately aft of the 804
>bulkhead, but how far apart?
>
>Thanks, oh mighty, intrepid and wise mashers of rivets.
>
>Brian Denk
>RV8 #379
>Panel finito!
>Engine found! Now then...where to get the $$$ Puhlleeeeaase, Mr.
>Wallstreet, don't fail me now!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rohan Lloyd" <rlloyd(at)northnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Discrepancy between kit & drawing - Trim Tab |
Below I have pasted the guts of an e-mail I received from Van's regards the
rivets. I was not happy at all about the fitment of the MAC servo in the
elevator and the lack of an exact description of its placement in the plans.
I questioned Van's on the subject and they basically said make it fit!! I
then spoke to several builders in this country and they had all found the
same problems and disregarded the plans!!
The MD42BS have been replaced with the MSP-42 rivet, which you can find in
our catalog. These are round head monel (shinier and harder than aluminum)
rivets that fit a #30 hole.
Rohan LLOYD
e-mail: rlloyd(at)northnet.com.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Tyrrel <charliet(at)vcn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop Governor |
Scott,
I'm building a 6A and have a 160 hp D1A engine.
I suppose it would be wise to wait for the delivery of the governor
before punching a hole in the firewall. The governor should be here
shortly from Van's. But, if we could get some measurements that would get
us in the ballpark as to where the hole will be, it will be helfull in
laying out the rest of the firewall.
Thanks,
Gillette Charlie
>Charlie,
>An often used routing is to penetrate the firewall somewhat on the left
>side to allow the cable to turn right and cross to the governor along the
>fwd side of the firewall.
>For any more specific info you will need to at least mention what model
>RV you are working on.
>
>
>Scott McDaniels
>These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
>reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: HELP Noisy Brakes |
Did another 1.6 hours test flying today. The brakes still moan and vibrate at
each application, including after the motor start where I release and brake
as soon as it moves. Am grounding the A.C. until the new wheels and brakes
Vans is sending are installed, hopefully next weekend.
The brakes release completely after application. In addion, one additional
thing tried was the auto Brake Squeal Compound applied to the back of the
brakes. The problem comes with any pressure on the brakes, from hard to
feather. The vibration is a very high level, at a very low frequency, below
60 HTZ. Not a minor thing. Had three people come over to the hanger after
todays test flight to look at the airplane. All said they were attracted by
the sound of the brakes.
Bruce Patton
waiting my new wheels and brakes, will report results.
Damn, this thing flies GOOD!!!!!
RV-6A 596S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Prop Governor |
In a message dated 3/13/99 7:10:40 AM Pacific Standard Time, charliet(at)vcn.com
writes:
<< Can anyone tell me the location of the hole in the firewall for the prop
governor control cable? >>
This is in the archives, but just for you... I made the penetration in my 6A
in the far left (pilots) side of the f/w above the X'd out rectangle (in the
pie slice area if you get my drift). The control cable length was 60", if
memory serves (that's why the archives are better, they don't forget) and
having it route in this manner allows a smooth curve into the governor from
about the 10 o'clock position.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Griesdale" <rockyr(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Seal |
Dear Doug
Yes, I meant the long 10" snap from Avery, the one that they warn you about
using with extreme care. This method worked for me with great success. You
must, however, be prepared to apply the top wing skin first. The gap seal simply
becomes part of the top wing skin, yielding terrific results.
Rob Griesdale, Cayley, Alberta RV6A, C-GWPC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 xpndr/com antenna stuff |
>
>Hi Brian;
>I ran my cables completely separate; but then my transponder is on the
>left side of the panel, and the radio on the right. Even on top of each
>other, I would still run the cables separately to be sure. My Com
>antenna is as I recall mounted on the belly about 2" aft of where the
>opening for the aileron control rod is on the lower side of the fuse,
and
>about 2" inboard from the edge. Same for the transponder antenna,
except
>it is on the other side. Here is the important part; the floorboard in
>this area has the dropped area for the passengers foot, so you MUST
>remember to place these antennas so that the cable coming up off of
them
>does not interfere with this floorboard! Ask me how I know! By the
way,
>how did the VAL com installation work out? You will be happy with it, a
>great, clear sounding and easy to use unit! I love it!
>Von Alexander
Von,
Thanks for the input! I won't ask about how you found out the
interference with the foot wells...as long as you don't ask me about my
battle with the lower longerons. Deal? :)
The Val radio fits! I made sure to wire the harness so that it lays down
very close to the connector strip, and wrapped it with spiral wrap. It
doesn't touch the baggage bulkhead at all. I powered it up, and it seems
to work, but the crappy old handheld radio I borrowed didn't work very
well, at least this was the case when my Dad went across the yard with
it. So, I guess I'll see what kind of reception I get when it's at the
airport, with open space all around. I still need to secure the tray at
the forward end. I guess I'll use a piece of angle or strap of some
sort, with a screw into the threaded insert in the tray at one corner. I
don't think I can get to the opposite side with my power bus
configuration in the way. It's mighty busy back in there, especially
with the rather bulky gyros and associated vacuum tubing jutting out.
By locating the Com antenna that far back from the 804 bulkhead, does it
come close to touching the ground? Mine seems mighty close to pranging a
hole in the pavement on any "less than perfect" landing if I place it
that far aft. I guess I could heat it with a torch, and bent it up a
bit, but I'm afraid I might break it, or change the temper so that it
becomes brittle. Whatcha think?
Well, off to bed. Up at 0430 for work tomorrow. Yeah, it sucks, but I
get four days off next week. Gotta love that. I should have an engine
within a couple of weeks. I bailed out of the deal with Bart Lalonde. I
just can't afford the $16k right now. So, Central Air Parts has a nice
deal on a low time since major 360 with solid crank. My A&P/IA friend
has blessed it as a sound engine, and will help me scrutinize it closely
once I receive it. Any problems will be fixed, or it goes back to them.
They've been VERY helpfull thus far, answered every question in detail,
and I feel pretty good about it. Whew! One more milestone in the saga of
Brian's RV8!
Enjoy your new toy! Ya lucky bloke! ;) Oh, I REALLY appreciate the
updates you're posting. I've learned a bunch from them....so keep it up!
Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wntzl(at)execpc.com (David M Wentzell) |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Problem / Question |
Greetings,
Thanks to all who responded to my problem / question. I also called and
spoke to a builder at Van's. The result?? - I disassembled the bad one,
ordered a new spar, and will soon be building my 3rd aileron! At least I
didn't feel so bad after learning that this is a mistake that has been made
before!
Do not archieve
David Wentzell
Wings - RV6
Racine, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hand rivet squeezer for sale |
I agree that two squeezers are very convenient. I have an Avery and a tatco
but also saw the need for a pneumatic. I bought a double ram for the price
of a single from action air and am not sorry. I use all three regularly. one
has a no hole, the other a longeron and the air squeezer has a custom made
spar rivet head. btw anyone interested can contact off list and I'll send
acad drawing of head.
Capt. Steven DiNieri
RV-6A NF,NY
Wings in the works
----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 1999 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: hand rivet squeezer for sale
>
>Louis,
>
>Just a thought for your consideration and for builders who are just
>getting under way with their projects:
>
>Having two rivet squeezers is VERY convenient. Many times you will be
>dimpling and squeezing repetitively in the same work session. I really
>enjoyed having the dimple dies in one squeezer, and the flat rivet set
>in the other. This saves a great deal of time that would otherwise be
>spent changing dies.
>
>If the funds allow, new builders may want to investigate purchasing a
>second squeezer, preferably with a different size yoke.
>
>Louis, carefully consider whether or not you really want to sell your
>rivet squeezer at this time.
>
>Or....new builders, buy Louis's set before he changes his mind....it is
>a great deal!
>
>Sam Buchanan (runnin' outa stuff to do on the RV6)
>"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Mills <tmills(at)powerup.com.au> |
| Subject: | Crankshaft inspection |
To all the most kind people who helped me to understand the service bulletin #
505b
thank you very much!!!!
Here on the weekend I was unable find anyone who could answer my questions,
with your help the aircraft will now be inspected tomowow, with the sale subject
to the outcome.
This list realy works
Trevor Mills 80605
(All fingers crossed)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | Steel fittings in engine |
Does anyone know why Vans recommends steel fittings for all -4 and -6
hose fittings mounted on the engine? This was emphasised in Bill
Benedict's article a couple of RVators back.
Yes, I asked Vans and got the reply that steel is recommended except
for the -6 fuel fitting on the carb! (Bill shows steel here too!) I
wasn't a whole heap wiser.
If it's for vibration resistance, the far end of the hose could be
subject to similar forces but aluminium is specified here. If it's
for vibration resistance, why are the -8 (oil lines) excluded.
(Scott McD, would you be able to expand on the somewhat economical
explanation I received from your namesake?)
Thanks all,
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8 xpndr/com antenna stuff |
While we are talking antennas: I do not want a big, long ELT antenna on top
of my 8a. What are some good alternatives??
hilljw(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jacquelyn eastburn <jimnjax(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Sam, same here, i can feel and hear that something's not right before a
gauge catches my attention. 1940 T-Craft driver, RV-8 builder.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8 xpndr/com antenna stuff |
I used a regular VHF handheld radio-type rubber ducky antenna mounted
right in between the 'y' shaped bars on the passenger grab bar. Works
great.
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>While we are talking antennas: I do not want a big, long ELT antenna
>on top
>of my 8a. What are some good alternatives??
>hilljw(at)aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jacquelyn eastburn <jimnjax(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thought for this week |
Sam, thanks. that was beatiful. jim eastburn.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gauges/Buster's post |
Hi gang.
I purchased an RV-4 from an Ag pilot builder, who put in a "minimum" panel.
future with more gauges and a vacuum system. I have changed my mind after
30 hrs. of flight. I will build a new panel so that I can move the
radio/transponder stack from between my legs, and add a G-meter. I may
leave room for an electric DG or electric Horizon, but they are now
optional-- not absolutely necessary as I previously thought. What I need to
learn to do is scan the few gauges I have more often than I already do. I
have been learning to use a compass as I never had before. I am also more
attuned to the single cylinder CHT, and Oil Temp. gauges as never before. I
may get a vertical card compass to replace the current Airpath and forget
about an electric DG. Too many gauges in a sport plane ,such as an RV, may
not be as useful as they are in a standard C/C IFR machine.
I don't agree with Sam Buchanan 100% that my 0-360 can be managed as simply
as his A-75, but we agree 90%. Good flying habits(which I do not yet have,
but am working on) such as well managed descents, leaning when needed,
attention to Oil info, and attention to fuel info and tank switching will
probably help more than $20 grand spent on gauges. Flame me all you want,
I'm goin' flying in about 10 minutes.
For the original poster who requested opinions on engine gauges, you can't
go wrong with E.I gauges. Your wallet will be a few pounds lighter, though.
Louis
Louis I. Willig, RV-4 - N8ZZ
larywil(at)home.com
(610) 668-4964
Philadelphia, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 xpndr/com antenna stuff |
>While we are talking antennas: I do not want a big, long ELT antenna
on top
>of my 8a. What are some good alternatives??
>hilljw(at)aol.com
I placed mine horizontally, into the rearmost turtle deck bulkhead, and
it will be out of sight under the fiberglass tail fairing. I've heard
that one or more of the factory demonstrator aircraft are set up this
way as well. So, evidently it's a viable alternative to placing it on
the exterior of the aircraft.
Brian Denk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rich Sanchez" <rsanchez(at)cvn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Steel fittings in engine |
A wild guess would be to reduce the possibility or decrease
the number of connections which dissimilar metal corrosion
could occur.
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: pbennett(at)zip.com.au <pbennett(at)zip.com.au>
Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 7:56 AM
Subject: RV-List: Steel fittings in engine
>
>Does anyone know why Vans recommends steel fittings for all -4 and -6
>hose fittings mounted on the engine? This was emphasised in Bill
>Benedict's article a couple of RVators back.
>
>Yes, I asked Vans and got the reply that steel is recommended except
>for the -6 fuel fitting on the carb! (Bill shows steel here too!) I
>wasn't a whole heap wiser.
>
>If it's for vibration resistance, the far end of the hose could be
>subject to similar forces but aluminium is specified here. If it's
>for vibration resistance, why are the -8 (oil lines) excluded.
>
>(Scott McD, would you be able to expand on the somewhat economical
>explanation I received from your namesake?)
>
>Thanks all,
>
>Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8 xpndr/com antenna stuff |
I was going to do this, but the antenna I got with my ACK elt was too
long; I tried everything, even contacted Vans on how they did theirs,
but after I spent a day on it and could not get it to fit without cutting
the antenna or doubling it back on itself, I gave up and mounted a
'rubber ducky' in the cabin. Hopefully you guys can make it work, I
couldn't!
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>
>>While we are talking antennas: I do not want a big, long ELT antenna
>
>on top
>>of my 8a. What are some good alternatives??
>>hilljw(at)aol.com
>
>I placed mine horizontally, into the rearmost turtle deck bulkhead,
>and
>it will be out of sight under the fiberglass tail fairing. I've heard
>that one or more of the factory demonstrator aircraft are set up this
>way as well. So, evidently it's a viable alternative to placing it on
>the exterior of the aircraft.
>
>Brian Denk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
Long ago, I came across an RV page that had drawings and dimensions for
the foam padding for RV seats. I have tried to find the page again
without success. Does anyone know the address for the web page?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gummos" <tg1965(at)linkline.com> |
John Harmon,
My prop is at yellowfreight and will be delievered Mon. :-)
As for the extra 400+ dollar charge for tax, I don't think I need them.
For the aircraft structure, I plan on using rivets and I think bolts will
work much better for the prop than taxs. ;-)
However, the check will be in the mail Monday too. :-(
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft seats |
In a message dated 3/14/99 2:03:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
calverjl(at)flash.net writes:
<<
Long ago, I came across an RV page that had drawings and dimensions for
the foam padding for RV seats. I have tried to find the page again
without success. Does anyone know the address for the web page?
>>
Look on Van's homepage. It is listed there.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | ACAD LT97 Software is sold. . . |
If you haven't had any direct contact with me on this
offer, you didn't win the race . . .
BTW, I will be out of town on a fire-fighting mission
to San Diego area for perhaps the next week. I'm going
to try to use my calling card to dial up my local
ISP here in Wichita to keep in touch but just in case
it doesn't work, I'll be out of pocket for awhile.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Steel fittings in engine |
I don't think so as the engine case is Aluminum!!! It is probably just
strength.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Sanchez <rsanchez(at)cvn.net>
Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Steel fittings in engine
>
>A wild guess would be to reduce the possibility or decrease
>the number of connections which dissimilar metal corrosion
>could occur.
>
>Rich
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: pbennett(at)zip.com.au <pbennett(at)zip.com.au>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 7:56 AM
>Subject: RV-List: Steel fittings in engine
>
>
>>
>>Does anyone know why Vans recommends steel fittings for all -4 and -6
>>hose fittings mounted on the engine? This was emphasised in Bill
>>Benedict's article a couple of RVators back.
>>
>>Yes, I asked Vans and got the reply that steel is recommended except
>>for the -6 fuel fitting on the carb! (Bill shows steel here too!) I
>>wasn't a whole heap wiser.
>>
>>If it's for vibration resistance, the far end of the hose could be
>>subject to similar forces but aluminium is specified here. If it's
>>for vibration resistance, why are the -8 (oil lines) excluded.
>>
>>(Scott McD, would you be able to expand on the somewhat economical
>>explanation I received from your namesake?)
>>
>>Thanks all,
>>
>>Peter
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jacquelyn eastburn <jimnjax(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Independence Oregon Airpark Lot. |
almost 15,000 sq ft lot for sale in established air park setting
Great place to live. on Stearman st. for more infor, call
503-647-5540 59,900.00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan & Patty Krueger <pndkrueg(at)gulfsurf.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft seats |
jerry calvert wrote:
>
> Long ago, I came across an RV page that had drawings and dimensions for
> the foam padding for RV seats.
Jerry - go to the RV list homepage than John Hovan's homepage - at the bottom of
Hovan's page is the article you are looking for. I had to buy full slabs of
rubber - got two plane's worth for what I would have had to pay for one set.
Let me know how it works out for you - I have the rubber all cut but haven't
gone to the upholster yet. I had the shop cut the slabs into manageable sizes
and than cut them to size on a bandsaw - worked great.Dan
RV-6A working on cowling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 xpndr/com antenna stuff |
Check out Sam Buchanan's web page. He has a great location in the
empennage.
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rush <krush(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flight manual (Australia) |
I downloaded both the POH and Converter from the wed site and then found
out it won't work with windows 3.1 ! $#&
%(*$
Anyone know where I can get a converter for Word 97 (POH) to WinWord 6.0
for the 3.1 Syst.???
Thanks,
Larry, RV-6A finish stuff
.........................break..................................
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brian Hunter <ozzy(at)better.net.au>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 2:56 PM
>Subject: Re: RV-List: flight manual (Australia)
>
>
>>
>If you are looking for a POH[pilots operating handbook] there is one at
>www.villagenet.com/~scottg/poh.html for an RV6A , compliments of Scott
>Gesele that may be suitable for you.
>
>Derek Reed RV6A
>Grants Pass OR
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft seats |
Dan & Patty Krueger wrote:
>
>
> jerry calvert wrote:
>
> >
> > Long ago, I came across an RV page that had drawings and dimensions for
> > the foam padding for RV seats.
>
> Jerry - go to the RV list homepage than John Hovan's homepage - at the bottom
of
> Hovan's page is the article you are looking for. I had to buy full slabs of
> rubber - got two plane's worth for what I would have had to pay for one set.
> Let me know how it works out for you - I have the rubber all cut but haven't
> gone to the upholster yet. I had the shop cut the slabs into manageable sizes
> and than cut them to size on a bandsaw - worked great.Dan
> RV-6A working on cowling
>
Thanks Dan,
For those interested, the foam dimensions are located at
<http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/hovan/rvseat1.gif>
and
<http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/hovan/rvseat2.gif>
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
>Now, now, Buster, your gauge opinions are just
>too......too........practical!
>"But what if you find yourself in clouds, how do you save your skin if
>you don't have an attitude indicator?" they ask. My answer is, "I fly as
>if I have a fast Cub.....I don't go into clouds because I know that if I
>do, I will die!"
>"But what if the electronic stuff goes up in smoke, how do you continue
>to fly?", wails another e-mailer. "If the airplane is still happy, I
>continue my flight", is the reply. Most no doubt go away as unbelievers.
>
>Every pilot should spend some time in a Cub!
Wise words these ones!
Some may recall a thread on this list that I had a hand in called "too many
toys." The point was, You cannot put experience in the panel. It has to go
in the seat.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taborek" <taborek(at)pathcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Steel fittings in engine |
Peter, You wrote:
"Does anyone know why Vans recommends steel fittings for all -4 and -6
hose fittings mounted on the engine? This was emphasised in Bill
Benedict's article a couple of RVators back."
It may be for fire protection. There is a spec in the FARs that the
firewall must protect against 2000 degF for 15 min. I saw an article by a
local DABI (DAR) who noted that Al fittings -6 and over would meet the
requirement, smaller ones would not. Hence steel was recommended for the
smaller bulkhead fittings.
That might have entered into the reasoning for steel for smaller fittings on
the engine where gas or oil might feed a fire.
BTW, I got all my fittings from a local Aeroquip dealer. They have lots
of varieties and better prices. Also, I often don't end up with the
fitting I first think is appropriate. So it is handy to be able to go over
and get another promptly.
Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing O-320 (with steel fittings) Toronto
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "CROWELL,JEFF (HP-Boise,ex1)" <jeff_crowell(at)am.exch.hp.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-List Digest: 03/13/99 |
Sorry, this is wrong. It takes a continuous acceleration
to raise that wing.
Rolling pullouts create a significant higher 'G' loading on
the rising wing.
Jeff
(buying the tools to build the plane)
Gordon or Marge Comfort wrote:
> All of the above supposes there is no aileron input. There was a thread
> recently about rolling pulls that I don't think was satisfactorily
resolved.
> Think about it this way: If we are pulling 5g's without roll input the
> wings are sharing the 5g loads equally. If we roll vigorously, all the
> while sustaining 5g's, the wing with the down aileron must carry a larger
> share of the load. If it does not, then we are either not rolling or we
> are no longer pulling 5g's.
Only when you start and stop the roll do you add accelleration loads to the
wings. At a constant roll rate wings share equal loading.
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Griesdale" <rockyr(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Steel fittings in engine |
Dear Peter
If you've ever had an aluminum fitting seize in an aluminum body you'll wish
you had used steel. This happened to me while dry fitting a -6 nipple in my
oil cooler. Perhaps this is why steel fittings are used in aluminum castings.
Aluminum to aluminum could gall and become permanent. By the way, your local
farm equipment dealer has steel fittings they call J.I.C. fittings, cad-plated
and 37 degrees, perfect.
Rob Griesdale, Cayley, Alberta RV6A, C-GWPC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | And now..RV8 drivers..please be seated! |
Okay, the next logical path for this seat thread to go is...*drumroll*..
What about the RV-8/8A??
I have several family friends who have auto upholstery experience, and
seem quite interested in putting together a couple of seats for the RV.
Will the RV-4 seat dimensions work? (Maybe for the front seat, but the
-8 rear seat is wider than the -4..I think).
Grazi,
Brian Denk
RV-8 #379
airplane: It almost looks like one
bank account: Whaddya mean it's empty?!! I still got checks left!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carol Knight <cknight(at)rmci.net> |
| Subject: | RV Upholstery Products |
RV Builders
I have been in the upholstery business for 27 years and have been making
upholstery products for kitplanes for 15 years. I have interior kits
available for RV-4, RV-6, RV-6A, and RV-8. I also have cabin covers and
other items. I am the supplier of upholstery products for several kitplane
manufacturers. A list of other kitplane interior products available upon
request.
For more information, call Knight Aircraft Interiors, Inc., at (208)
342-2602 or e-mail me at cknight(at)rmci.net. Photos available upon request.
Sincerely,
KNIGHT AIRCRAFT INTERIORS, INC.
"Fly by Knight" Upholstery Products
Sam Knight
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
> You cannot put experience in the panel. It has to go
> in the seat.
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
> dougr(at)petroblend.com
> www.petroblend.com/dougr
Of all the things I have learned from this list, the above statement carries
the most wisdom.
Thanks Doug for that inspirational thought
DGM RV-6
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Lein <37xjglj(at)cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu> |
I made a pretty common goof while building the tip-up canopy on my 6A.
Like so many anal-retentive types I fitted the front skin of the tip up
to the fusaloge skin over the rudder pedals and instruments with
excessive zeal. With a gap a credit card would barely fit into, I thought
it looked great until I opened the canopy for the first time. ARRG!- the
skins bound and buckled the lip, stretching the skins near the hinge,
turning my perfect fit in a stretched and wrinkley mess. It seems the
canopy moves forward a little as well as up, so I really shot myself in
the foot on this particular point. Subsequent trimming has left me with a
gap at the top near the hinge pins, just over 1/8" with the bottom
corners being the original few thousandths.
After this long preamble, I have two questions for anyone on the list who
has dealt with this problem. 1) Any suggestions other than bondo and flat
black paint to hide the irregularities on my finish-riveted skins? (No,
I'm not going to replace them. My building time to flying time ratio is
already getting out of hand.) 2) What methods (weather strip, silicone
seal, etc.) have other builders used in this particular part of the
canopy?
Cheers, Paul in Michigan
6A IO360 with AD prop getting ready for paint
P.S. I still have new, unused main wheelpants and standard 360CS cowl for
sale cheap!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tillman, James A." <tillman.james.a(at)fulton.k12.ga.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Man Press/Fuel Flow Guages |
howdy folks, i need some help in two areas regarding instrument markings:
1) the correct screening of our manifold/fuel flow instrument: with an
io-360, constant speed prop, what would be the recommended marking on our
gauge? i believe the manifold side goes from 0 to 45 in hg abs; the fuel
flow side goes from 0 to 24 gallons per hour, ala piper arrow configuration.
(we are using an older 1965 vintage garwin indicator)
2)comments on the airspeed indicator markings. red radial line 242 mph,
yellow arc 191- 241, green 110-190, white 50-109.
thanks in advance,
jim tillman/chris landry
rv8 80655, starting right wing, fuselage on order
fayetteville/newnan, ga
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
Regarding the lip of your tilt up canopy being stretched. I had the
same thing happen having streched the skin agains come ceclos. I had
some success using one of the metal shrinkers. It takes up the excess
slack in the skin by making very small crimps in the skin. It helped
but still not the beautiful fit I had previously. If you can borrow one
you might try it. Use very little force on the handle and it can help
the straighten the straight parts of the skin, less useful where the
canopy skin curves.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A Been there, Done that
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry" <larryjenison(at)voyager.net> |
| Subject: | PROGRESS RV-3 WING MOD |
RV-3 Flyers
Made good progress on wing mods this weekend. Right wing complete, left 50%
still have to do rear spar attachment mod, waiting for material.
Just a tip that's worked well for me, when replacing 1/8"rivets if you can
cut the tails with sharp chisel. Has to have special bend ,so you don't
damage spar web plate. After you cut tail, take a flat punch less that 1/8"
and drive rivet out. If rivet will not move after a couple of good blows ,go
back to original drill-out method. You will find that once you have that
clean 1/8" hole the 3/16" bit is self centering and you don't have to worry
about drilling a bad hole.
Hope to be ready to paint wings in 2 weeks. Still have to replace spar
bulkhead section and repaint fuselage. Should be ready for summer.
I bought this rv-3 from org. builder he flew it 845 hrs. It has IO320 160
h.p.
Larry Jenison
Fowlerville Mi
93JP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate vacuum source |
Brian Eckstein brought this up recently, and I have questions as well.
I've kept an email from Brian Lloyd (Nov 27, 1998) where he discusses
the need have an alternate vacuume source for vacuume powered
horizon and gyro compass (for IFR flight).
I have a "no vacuume" flag on my gyro, so I'm just looking for an
alternate source of vacuume (manually operated with a valve), not an
automatic switchover system.
My questions:
1. Should I just take vacuume from a port like the one that supports my
manifold pressure instrument?
2. Any recommendations on hose size?
3. Any need for a restrictor valve of some sort, or will the existing
regulator handle vacuume regulation? (The engine can supply nearly
30" at full throttle, and my gyro only wants 5"-- I have no idea what
my vacuume pump pulls at high RPM).
Thanks for any insight.
Tim Lewis
On 12 Mar 99, at 18:57, B&S Eckstein wrote:
From: "B&S Eckstein" <eckstein@net-link.net>
Subject: RV-List: Alternate vacuum source
Send reply to: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Question to the list: Is any type of vacuum regulator needed? More
> specifically, using manifold pressure as an alternate source, is there
> any need to reduce the magnitude? Say that I merely plumb in a valve
> that goes to either source. When I pre-flight and check for alternate
> vacuum function, will there be any consequences when I change to
> alternate source when the engine is running at some low MAP? Will the
> instruments accept a step change in vacuum from say 5 to 15 inches?
>
> Rudimentary explainations accepted
>
> Thanks in advance
> Brian Eckstein
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023, engine completed and tested
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
I will be working on my tip-up once the finishing kit comes. I am unclear
how this damage occurs. Can one of you unfortunates explain it so those who
come after can avoid the problem?
Thanks,
Steve Soule RV-6A
Huntington, Vermont
(great skiing, lots of snow)
-----Original Message-----
From: Anderson Ed [mailto:anderson_ed(at)bah.com]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 8:55 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Tilt Up Canopy
Regarding the lip of your tilt up canopy being stretched. I
had the
same thing happen having streched the skin agains come
ceclos. I had
some success using one of the metal shrinkers. It takes up
the excess
slack in the skin by making very small crimps in the skin.
It helped
but still not the beautiful fit I had previously. If you
can borrow one
you might try it. Use very little force on the handle and
it can help
the straighten the straight parts of the skin, less useful
where the
canopy skin curves.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A Been there, Done that
Aircraft
Avionics, and by the generous Contributions of List
members.
RV-List:
http://www.matronics.com/rv-list
List Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
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http://www.matronics.com/search
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Other Email Lists:
http://www.matronics.com/other
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> |
Listers . . . this weekend we had a "Wings over the Rockies" Museum open
house/fair. One of the booths had a company called "Echo Flight". I'm not
sure whether you've heard of this--but they have a nifty $1500 device that
combines GPS (nothing new) with e-mail (perhaps not that useful) with
real-time weather updates into the cockpit (ah, now it's getting
interesting). They hook in to your own-supplied P.C., and can show a moving
map with weather superimposed on it along with standard GPS information.
FYI, the computer they used was a super small, color LCD Toshiba "Libretto"
(I'm not sure of the spelling), Model 50CT.
Their website is www.EchoFlight.com. The guy I talked with is Todd Nance at
303-413-9002.
I know this sounds like an advertisement--it's not. Just an interesting
device that I wanted to share.
Rick Jory
Highlands Ranch, CO
RV-8A tail kit should arrive this week
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: KC RVators Fly-In |
Hi Kevin:
What are the considerations for....commercial type vendors? Is there any
activity of this sort allowed? Ol' Zidek can confirm my ability to drink beer,
if that helps any...
Thanks
Check six!
Mark Frederick
Team Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tilt Up Canopy |
Well, Steve, for one thing don't have clecos holding the forward top
skin to the canopy hinge bulkhead. Raising the canopy forces the
leading skin edge against the cleco's stretching the skin and creating
waves in skin where you previously had a nice fit (don't think I need to
tell you how I know {:>{ ). Its enough to make a grown man cry
considering it is Sooooo visible.
Ed
Stephen J. Soule wrote:
>
>
> I will be working on my tip-up once the finishing kit comes. I am unclear
> how this damage occurs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate vacuum source |
I installed a "homemade" alternate vacuum source on my RV-6. I have
trouble putting ideas into words, so please be patient and I will try.
I welded up a sandwich of 4130 sheet that fits between the throttle body
and the sump. All three pieces were cut with the same size hole as the
throttle body/sump intake hole. The centre plate (.065") had a channel
extending off the central hole. One piece of the outer part of the
sandwich (.040") had a hose nipple welded on corresponding to the
channel in the centre section. The other outer piece was also .040". All
three sheets were welded around the perimeter to make a air tight seal.
The whole "adapter" is slightly over 1/8" thick. I ran a length of MIL
6000 hose from the hose nipple to a T fitting that consists of a one way
check valve and a cable operated on/off valve. Normal vacuum is supplied
from the pump, drawing through the check valve. On vacuum failure, I
open the cable operated valve which supplies manifold vacuum. The
purpose of the one way check valve is to isolate the failed vacuum pump.
I think the pump would fail "open", so any applied vacuum would suck
through the pump rather than through the regulator where it can do good
things. These two vaccum sources share one regulator. Entire system
weighs about .5 lb.
In operation two things must be kept in mind. A vacuum diferential must
exist. Full throttle at 30" MP will supply virtually zero vacuum. The
throttle plate must be partially closed to create a differential. When
you activate the alternate vacuum you are also allowing more intake air
hence leaning the mixture. Some certified alternate vacuum systems are
ported off just one cylinder, making mixture control very important. I
built my system thinking I would rather have four "jugs" working for me
rather than just one and also making the enrichening process easier.
I have not had a chance to use this backup system under emergency
conditions (thats a good thing). I test it from time to time during idle
and am always surprised at how fast the vacuum gauge "stands right up
straight". I will ocassionally use it to spin the gyros up to speed
before takeoff.
Tim Lewis wrote:
>
>
> I have a "no vacuume" flag on my gyro, so I'm just looking for an
> alternate source of vacuume (manually operated with a valve), not an
> automatic switchover system.
>
> My questions:
>
> 1. Should I just take vacuume from a port like the one that supports my
> manifold pressure instrument?
>
> 2. Any recommendations on hose size?
>
> 3. Any need for a restrictor valve of some sort, or will the existing
> regulator handle vacuume regulation? (The engine can supply nearly
> 30" at full throttle, and my gyro only wants 5"-- I have no idea what
> my vacuume pump pulls at high RPM).
>
--
Terry Jantzi
Kitchener ON
RV-6 C-GZRV
<http://netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: new video ready |
Guy's
our new video is now ready .The title is "View an engine overhaul". Is
shows what an 0-360 lycoming being overhauled, including the cost. The video
is not ment to be how to overhaul an engine but what it takes to do one the
right way. Cost $17.50 plus shipping.
Thanks : George & Becki Onrdorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
OK, I have the picture now. The LE of the canopy hit the clecoes. This
would ruin anybody's day.
Without the clecoes, though, can't the canopy be raised and lowered without
causing damage?
Steve Soule
-----Original Message-----
From: Anderson Ed [mailto:anderson_ed(at)bah.com]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 10:43 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tilt Up Canopy
Well, Steve, for one thing don't have clecos holding the
forward top
skin to the canopy hinge bulkhead. Raising the canopy
forces the
leading skin edge against the cleco's stretching the skin
and creating
waves in skin where you previously had a nice fit (don't
think I need to
tell you how I know {:>{ ). Its enough to make a grown man
cry
considering it is Sooooo visible.
Ed
Stephen J. Soule wrote:
>
>
> I will be working on my tip-up once the finishing kit
comes. I am unclear
> how this damage occurs.
Aircraft
Avionics, and by the generous Contributions of List
members.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Haywood, Charles E., MAJ, ODCSOPS" <HAYWOCE(at)hqda.army.mil> |
| Subject: | RV-6A versus RV-8A |
Hi all:
I am new to the list, and am close to the ordering stage. I have not yet
decided which plane to build, but have winnowed list down to the RV-6A and
the RV-8A. Right now I am leaning towards the RV-6A, because the SBS
configuration is more appealing for XC flight (I think), and because I might
enjoy showing others how to fly one day. However, the part of me that can't
resist photos of spitfires and ponies won't let go of that RV-8 so easily.
Please send me any thoughts you may have on this topic, why you selected the
model you did, etc. I know this topic is a dead horse, so please send
responses to me personally instead of via rv-list.
Also, I have not yet seen an actual RV-8 or 8A. If anyone in the Northern
Virginia / DC area has an RV-8 that is nearing completion, and would be
willing to let me sit in it and make airplane noises, I would be much
obliged. Ed Anderson was nice enough to let me see his RV-6A and his Mazda
rotary conversion. Very impressive!
Finally, if anyone in the area is willing to provide an orientation flight
in an RV of any type, I'll gladly pay for the fuel.
Regards,
Ed Haywood
Drooling over brochures and catalogs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
>
>Now, now, Buster, your gauge opinions are just
>too......too........practical!
>
>It is easy for me to say thanks for a good post because you expressed my
>sentiments exactly. My last 300 hrs of flight have been in a 1940 J3. I
>found out that the engine runs just fine with only an oil pressure/temp
>gauge and that my enjoyment of flying was greatly enhanced by looking
>out the open door instead of gazing at a panel full of needles.
Sure. What you don't know won't hurt you, right? I have a PA-16, not a
whole lot more complex than your J-3. All it had was oil pressure and oil
temp, neither of which showed that cylinder #3 was running way too hot and
had annealed the rings. By the time the jug started pushing oil and
compression had dropped, it was too late and the engine needed a new jug.
A CHT guage on that cylinder would have allowed me to know about the
problem ahead of time and solve the problem with the baffling before I had
to get a new jug.
BTW, in my RV-4 I one of thos newfangled guages that monitors what is
normal and tells me in my headphones so I don't have to monitor the
needles. I spend a LOT of time looking outside.
"But what if you find yourself in clouds, how do you save your skin if
you don't have an attitude indicator?" they ask. My answer is, "I fly as
if I have a fast Cub.....I don't go into clouds because I know that if I
do, I will die!"
Well, there is always the old tried-and-true needle/ball and airspeed.
All kidding aside, I really don't know how to reply to this one. It seems
as if you are making fun of people who want to put more in their panel.
OK, I put a full IFR panel in my RV-4 so it becomes more useful to me. I
want to continue flying even when the weather might go bad or it is VFR
except where I want to go. Being able to shoot an ILS makes my RV-4 more
useful to me.
And then there was the night when the weather wasn't supposed to turn bad
but did anyway.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 xpndr/com antenna stuff |
>A couple of questions about the transponder and com antennas and their
>RG58 cables:
>
>1. Is it not a good idea to run the cables together?
It won't hurt a thing.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate vacuum source |
>
>Question to the list: Is any type of vacuum regulator needed? More
>specifically, using manifold pressure as an alternate source, is there
>any need to reduce the magnitude?
Yes. If the vacuum is too high you could damage your gyros. They could
spin too fast and fail.
The Precise Flight standby vacuum system plumbs the manifold into a shuttle
valve that selects the better vacuum source, the manifold or the vacuum
pump (with a valve to shut off the path to the intake manifold). The
vacuum regulator remains in the system.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | RV-LIST: Oil Cooler Installation and Cooling Control |
Fellow Builders,
I'm posting this so that my solution may appear in the archives. If not
interested, hit your delete key now.
While getting ready to install the oil cooler on my O-320 RV-6, I did a lot
of research in the archives regarding the pro's and con's of where to locate
the oil cooler and on using a mechanism to control the flow of air into or
out of the oil cooler in order to better control oil temperatures. The
archives pointed out a couple of conclusions:
1) Some sort of control mechanism is desirable in order to provide the most
control of oil temperature, especially if you fly in hot and/or changing
climates.
2) A mechanism that can be controlled in flight is more desirable than one
that is ground controlled.
3) Mechanisms that control the flow of air "into" the cooler are generally
better able to control the
temperature than mechanisms that control the flow of air "out" of the
cooler.
4) Mounting the cooler was one of user preference. Many mount on the
firewall. Many use the left rear baffle, and some the left front baffle.
None appeared to offer much significant benefit over another.
Now, as you can imagine, there were suggestions in the archives that spanned
the entire gamut from "You don't need no stinkin door" to "You need one on
both sides electronically controlled by solenoids and sensors!". Well, I am
exaggerating just a little.
I studied the problem and came up with a relatively simple solution that
achieved "my" design objectives of controlling the "input" air through the
cooler from "within" the cockpit with the cooler mounted on the "left rear
baffle".
On the baffle, I cut an opening equal in length of approximately 1/2 the
length of the baffle and equal in width to the width of the oil cooler fins
minus 1/2 inch. Then on the backside of the baffle, I fabricated three
plates out of .063 aluminum. Plate one (flange) is in the shape of an
upside down U that is as wide as the oil cooler flanges with the inside
width equal to the width of the opening in the baffle plus 1/2 inch. The
length of this plate is the same as the length of the baffle.
In between the U, I made a second plate (door) that is just a little
narrower than the opening in the U. The length of the door is such that
when the door is in the full up position (closed), the bottom of the door is
about 1 inch below the bottom edge of the cooler. This provides enough room
to mount a tab on the door so that the tab will not hit the oil cooler when
the door is fully closed. The door slides up and down between the sides of
the U.
On top of all that, I made a plate (cover) to cover the whole thing. This
plate extends down beyond the bottom of the baffle 6-8 inches in order to
provide a mounting point for a cushion clamp on the cable. In the cover
plate I cut a slot for the tab on the door. The upper end of the slot
provides a stop for the closed position, and the bottom of the slot provides
a stop for the full open position. The oil cooler is then mounted to the
cover plate through the flange plate and the baffle. I riveted the cover
plate and flange plate to the baffle in 1 inch intervals.
With this mounted, I ran a Bowden cable through the firewall on the far
left-hand bottom side. The cable gracefully curves up where the cable
sheath is secured to the assembly with a cushion clamp. A nut and screw
secures the cable to the tab in the door. I mounted the handle to the
small fuselage bulkhead behind the instrument panel and up on the left side.
This way it is within easy reach by the pilot but out of the way of your
knees.
This whole explanation sounds a whole lot more complicated than what it
really is. The whole thing went together without a hitch and works
perfectly. (At least when I fly it around inside of my garage.)
Thought I'd share this with others on the list. Drop me a line if you have
any questions.
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6
"Ready for Paint"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Now, now, Buster, your gauge opinions are just
> >too......too........practical!
> >
> >It is easy for me to say thanks for a good post because you expressed my
> >sentiments exactly. My last 300 hrs of flight have been in a 1940 J3. I
> >found out that the engine runs just fine with only an oil pressure/temp
> >gauge and that my enjoyment of flying was greatly enhanced by looking
> >out the open door instead of gazing at a panel full of needles.
>
> Sure. What you don't know won't hurt you, right? I have a PA-16, not a
> whole lot more complex than your J-3. All it had was oil pressure and oil
> temp, neither of which showed that cylinder #3 was running way too hot and
> had annealed the rings. By the time the jug started pushing oil and
> compression had dropped, it was too late and the engine needed a new jug.
> A CHT guage on that cylinder would have allowed me to know about the
> problem ahead of time and solve the problem with the baffling before I had
> to get a new jug.
>
> BTW, in my RV-4 I one of thos newfangled guages that monitors what is
> normal and tells me in my headphones so I don't have to monitor the
> needles. I spend a LOT of time looking outside.
>
> "But what if you find yourself in clouds, how do you save your skin if
> you don't have an attitude indicator?" they ask. My answer is, "I fly as
> if I have a fast Cub.....I don't go into clouds because I know that if I
> do, I will die!"
>
> Well, there is always the old tried-and-true needle/ball and airspeed.
>
> All kidding aside, I really don't know how to reply to this one. It seems
> as if you are making fun of people who want to put more in their panel.
> OK, I put a full IFR panel in my RV-4 so it becomes more useful to me. I
> want to continue flying even when the weather might go bad or it is VFR
> except where I want to go. Being able to shoot an ILS makes my RV-4 more
> useful to me.
>
> And then there was the night when the weather wasn't supposed to turn bad
> but did anyway.
Aw come on, Brian, lighten up! :-)
If you feel as if I was making fun of your full panel, it is due to your
perception, not my intent. The panel in my RV has everything in it,
including the newfangled audible alarms, except the vacuum gyros. I get
the feeling you haven't seen my panel yet or read the rational behind
its design:
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/panel.html
I am IFR rated and am quite aware of the utility that IFR capability
brings. Matter of fact, my plane will one day have an IFR panel if I
decide that IFR ops once again need to be a major part of my flying.
The point I was illustrating is how many new builders are awed by the
"full" panel in some RVs they see, and think that if their RV doesn't
have a similar panel, then either their airplane or piloting skill will
be looked upon as substandard. Much $$ and time is expended on IFR and
exotic monitoring stuff that will never be utilized in many RVs. It is
very important to analyze the mission of YOUR plane and equip it
accordingly, not by a fear of not having a "standard" aircraft.
I also am concerned about the attitude that I have witnessed in some
pilots who are not IFR rated yet feel that if they push beyond the
limits of common sense and enter clouds, they are safe since their plane
has gyros. This is a potentially deadly combination! If the pilot
intends to operate in VFR conditions only, and has the attitude that IMC
must *at all costs be absolutely avoided* due to lack of of equipment
and/or skill, then that pilot may very well have a long and enjoyable
association with aviation. I believe my point is supported by the number
of fatalities each year due to "continued flight into IMC".
Brian, I am glad you are happy with the decision to equip your RV4 with
a full panel; I am sure it is a very capable aircraft. I would encourage
you to not be offended by individuals who elect to take a different
route with their project.
And if you feel as if you don't know how to reply to a post, then
maybe.... ;-)
Sam Buchanan
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate vacuum source |
>1. Should I just take vacuume from a port like the one that supports my
>manifold pressure instrument?
That probably wont't support sufficient flow.
> 2. Any recommendations on hose size?
Not sure. Probably on the order of 1/2" ID. You are safe to make it the
same as the rest of your vacuum plumbing.
>3. Any need for a restrictor valve of some sort, or will the existing
>regulator handle vacuume regulation?
The existing vacuum regulator will work fine for protecting your gyros. Do
remember that your standby vacuum system based on manifold vacuum is
essentially a leak in your induction system. The more you reduce MAP, the
leaner your mixture is. And if you put the tap into one of the intake
risers, you are going to make that cylinder leaner than the rest. This
isn't a problem so long as you know that you are doing this and do the
right thing with the mixture control when you use your standby system.
>(The engine can supply nearly
>30" at full throttle, and my gyro only wants 5"-- I have no idea what
>my vacuume pump pulls at high RPM).
You have it backwards. The gyro works on differential pressure, not
absolute pressure. If you have your throttle wide open, there is virtually
no difference between the pressure inside your manifold and the outside
air. This means that there is no vacuum to power your gyros. You need to
close the throttle until MAP is about 6" less than ambient air pressur.
That means that, at sea level where ambient pressure is about 30", you need
to reduce MAP to about 24" in order to have sufficient vacuum to power your
gyros. Fortunately our RVs have sufficient excess power that you can
reduce MAP by a lot and still fly comfortably.
Have you considered using a venturi as a standby vacuum source? Place it
on the belly downwind from your exhaust where it won't add a whole lot of
drag and the exhaust will act as an anti-ice/deice system. Now you don't
have to worry about what you are doing with your engine.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
>Aw come on, Brian, lighten up! :-)
I thought that I was being pretty light about it.
>If you feel as if I was making fun of your full panel, it is due to your
>perception, not my intent.
Well, communications includes both sender and receiver. Email places
greater responsibility on the sender because there are no accompanying cues
as to what the sender is attemption to convey.
No, I didn't think that you were making fun of my full panel, I thought
that you were stating that a full panel is unreasonable. That is a horse
of a different color. And my posting was an attempt to provide a
counterbalance to, what seemed to me to be, a rather one-sided viewpoint.
>The panel in my RV has everything in it,
>including the newfangled audible alarms, except the vacuum gyros. I get
>the feeling you haven't seen my panel yet or read the rational behind
>its design:
>
>http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/panel.html
OK, I looked. I don't have gyros that suck either. I have electric gyros.
Alternators and batteries have a smaller probability of failing than do
dry vacuum pumps. Also alternative power for electric gyros is easier to
come by that alternate pneumatic power is for air-driven gyros.
>I am IFR rated and am quite aware of the utility that IFR capability
>brings. Matter of fact, my plane will one day have an IFR panel if I
>decide that IFR ops once again need to be a major part of my flying.
I have other aircraft I fly when flying hard IFR. The RV-4 is not
conducive to hard IFR ops. OTOH, when I want to go into work and the Bay
Area marine layer extends out to Livermore, I can fly VFR in severe-clear
up to the final approach fix and then slide down the glideslope very
comfortably. I am on the guages for maybe a minute. The RV-4 handles that
just peachy.
>The point I was illustrating is how many new builders are awed by the
>"full" panel in some RVs they see, and think that if their RV doesn't
>have a similar panel, then either their airplane or piloting skill will
>be looked upon as substandard. Much $$ and time is expended on IFR and
>exotic monitoring stuff that will never be utilized in many RVs. It is
>very important to analyze the mission of YOUR plane and equip it
>accordingly, not by a fear of not having a "standard" aircraft.
Gyros, if you don't know how to use them, can be a waste of money. OTOH,
if you think you are going to be flying IFR at some time, it is worthwhile
to plan for gyros in the panel.
But do consider that virtually all of our RVs are powered by Lycoming.
There are a lot of parameters that are worth monitoring to be able to
determine the relative health of the powerplant. Sorry, but Oil-P and
Oil-T just isn't enough. Experience shows me that I want to add at least
CHT for all cylinders and probably EGT for all cylinders. I have even gone
so far as to add monitoring of the primaries of both magnetos so I have
some sort of indication of impending mag failure. This isn't just for fun,
this is to help reduce operating costs by hopefully finding problems before
they either threaten my wallet or my life.
>I also am concerned about the attitude that I have witnessed in some
>pilots who are not IFR rated yet feel that if they push beyond the
>limits of common sense and enter clouds, they are safe since their plane
>has gyros.
Well, that is a stupid attitude. The gyros don't fly the plane.
>This is a potentially deadly combination! If the pilot
>intends to operate in VFR conditions only, and has the attitude that IMC
>must *at all costs be absolutely avoided* due to lack of of equipment
>and/or skill, then that pilot may very well have a long and enjoyable
>association with aviation. I believe my point is supported by the number
>of fatalities each year due to "continued flight into IMC".
You state the obvious. OTOH, maybe it pays to state the obvious since we
still see fatalities due to "continued VFR flight into IMC."
>Brian, I am glad you are happy with the decision to equip your RV4 with
>a full panel; I am sure it is a very capable aircraft. I would encourage
>you to not be offended by individuals who elect to take a different
>route with their project.
I am not offended. I am a proficient IFR pilot who considers a full set of
gyros to be an important component of safety. Alternatively one shouldn't
make fun of people who feel that a full panel is warrented or appropriate.
>And if you feel as if you don't know how to reply to a post, then
>maybe.... ;-)
Oh, it wasn't that I didn't know what to say, only that I knew I shouldn't
say it the way that I wanted to. ;
)
And, BTW, my PA-16 with the oil-p and oil-t only panel now sports a full
set of gyros and engine instrumentation. Getting caught by weather (sudden
loss of temperature/dew-point spread) and being forced to get back to an
airport with nothing more than needle ball and airspeed is a great
enlightener. Sure I can do it and I DID do it but an attitude gyro would
have made it a tad more comfortable. Likewise having to replace a jug
because I had no CHT to let me know I had a problem also lends me to wish
for more engine instrumentation.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: engine gauges |
I don't know anything about the isspro gauges' reliability, some reports
say they aren't that great. But at the Home Wing meeting at Vans last
week, Bill showed us a new line of "aviation" style isspro gauges with
black bezels and sized for 2 1/4" dia holes that they have been working
with Isspro to develop. They even have a little picture of an RV on the
bottom of the faceplate! So if you wanted to go economy but were put
off by the automotive style, these may be your answer.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (instruments/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seward747(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FOR SALE: RV Const. Videos |
Hi Scott, OK, I'll take them for $99.
Doug Seward
3607 W 5th
Anacortes, WA 98221
Congratulations on 1st. flight, might get mine flying sometime in this
lifetime. Thanks, Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seward747(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FOR SALE: RV Const. Videos |
Sorry for the reply to the list, engage brain before hitting SEND!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <glenng(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tilt Up Canopy |
Hi,
I didn't bend up any skins when I did mine. I held the skin temporarily in
place with some 4-40 screws. This would allow the tip-up to function, however
by the time I had the skin trimmed back enough for the tip-up to function,
There was a 1/8" gap which looked lousy. I have since replaced the trimmed back
skin. I also have beveled the underside of the canopy skin, and beveled the
upper side of the forward fuselage skin.
________ _______
_______/ /_________
canopy fuselage
This way when the canopy lifts up and forward it clears the forward skin. I an
leaving final trimming of this until the forward skin is riveted in place.
-Glenn Gordon
Anderson Ed wrote:
>
> Regarding the lip of your tilt up canopy being stretched. I had the
> same thing happen having streched the skin agains come ceclos. I had
> some success using one of the metal shrinkers. It takes up the excess
> slack in the skin by making very small crimps in the skin. It helped
> but still not the beautiful fit I had previously. If you can borrow one
> you might try it. Use very little force on the handle and it can help
> the straighten the straight parts of the skin, less useful where the
> canopy skin curves.
>
> Ed Anderson
> RV-6A Been there, Done that
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Arthur E. Glaser" <airplane(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | replacing rv-4 leading edge on a non pre punched kit |
I have recently discovered that I must replace the wing leading edge on
an rv-4 that is not a prepunched kit. Between a friend, myself, and
Van, we have come up with the idea of wrapping a piece of aluminum or
acetate around the leading edge and back drilling to make a template.
This will allow me to match drill through the new leading edge and take
into account the radius. I hve been aboe to find thin aluminum but not
acetate. Does anyone know where I can find sheets of thin acetate or
have a better idea than the aforementioned method?
Thanks, Arthur E. Glaser Email-- airplane(at)megsinet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Engine Modifications; Re-Inspection Needed? |
I have ordered a LightSpeed Hall Effect electronic ignition module to
replace the right mag on my NON-CERTIFIED Lycoming 0-320 in my RV-6A.
Question: does this change require a re-inspection by the FAA or a DAR? My
guess is "no" but I can't locate an FAR reference that clarifies the
question. You can read what is or is not a "major modification" either way
as to whether the ignition is part of the "electrical" system or not. Your
input would be appreciated.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
Good information!
http://exp-aircraft.com/index.shtml
name="Official Guide to Experimental Aircraft.url"
filename="Official Guide to Experimental Aircraft.url"
[InternetShortcut]
URL=http://exp-aircraft.com/index.shtml
Modified=0037A09D426FBE01E4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randylervold(at)csi.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 belly stiffener? |
RV-8ers,
George O. recommends installing a single extra stiffener longitudinally
in the rear fuse bottom skin between bulkheads F-808 and F809. He does
this to prevent oil canning. Has anyone done this? Does it help? Does
anyone have a flying airplane without it, and is oilcanning a problem?
Gotta do this now if I'm going to do it.
Thanks,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, fuse
Home Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbirdman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: engine gauges |
For anyone wanting to use auto gauges and maintain a "aero" look to your
panel, here is what I did:
I found some good quality gauges in JC Whitney that had black bezels, and
interestingly enough were marked "Beede" on the face. I wonder if there is any
relationship with Jim? Anyway, I made holes in the panel that would allow the
gauge to be installed from the backside of the panel, then made rings of .040
aluminum that slipped over the body of the gauge and had plate nuts attached
at each corner spaced as if they were aviation gauges. Drill the panel
likewise and insert the gauge from the back, slip the ring over the gauge and
use inst. screws thru the panel and into the plate nuts thus capturing the
gauge between the panel and ring. From the front it looks like a aviation
gauge. Just one way to go "cheep" on the panel, and looks good.
Gary Bray
Carmel ME
RV-6 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: replacing rv-4 leading edge on a non pre punched |
kit
Does anyone know where I can find sheets of thin acetate or
>have a better idea than the aforementioned method?
>
>Thanks, Arthur E. Glaser Email-- airplane(at)megsinet.net
>
Arthur,
I dont know what part of the country you are located in. In San Diego we
have a shop called Rid-Out Plastics that sells this type of stuff. You
probably have something similar in your neck of the woods. Try the yellow
pages under Plastics/acrylics.
You might consider mylar sheet in place of the acetate. I used to use
mylar for laying up fiberglass wing skins around foam cores for RC
sailplanes. The mylar is available in pretty thin sheets and is reasonably
stiff but should conform well. Same plastics suppliers should carry it.
Mike Wills
RV-4 saving for the finish kit
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Modifications; Re-Inspection Needed? |
In a message dated 3/15/99 7:02:09 PM Central Standard Time,
fasching(at)amigo.net writes:
> I have ordered a LightSpeed Hall Effect electronic ignition module to
> replace the right mag on my NON-CERTIFIED Lycoming 0-320 in my RV-6A.
> Question: does this change require a re-inspection by the FAA or a DAR? My
> guess is "no" but I can't locate an FAR reference that clarifies the
> question. You can read what is or is not a "major modification" either way
> as to whether the ignition is part of the "electrical" system or not. Your
> input would be appreciated.
Not that i know of, but I would notify the insurance company as they are
getting very picking about paying for claims if you have made any changes
after it was checked off on .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)mari.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Modifications; Re-Inspection Neede |
Hi:
One thing to consider here is making your insurance company happy. I am
referring to the recent judgement against a Long Ez (I believe) pilot who
had modified his fuel system from gravity fed to pressure, and then back
again. Even though the fuel system was back to its original configuration,
Avemco did not cover losses he suffered as a result of a crash because the
mods to a "major system" had not been inspected by the FAA. Something to
consider in your decision. If in doubt, have the FAA take a look to be
safe.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A 25171
just about ready for the proseal experience
Peshtigo, WI
-----Original Message-----
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com <rv-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 5:50 PM
Subject: RV-List: Engine Modifications; Re-Inspection Neede
>
>
>I have ordered a LightSpeed Hall Effect electronic ignition module to
>replace the right mag on my NON-CERTIFIED Lycoming 0-320 in my RV-6A.
>Question: does this change require a re-inspection by the FAA or a DAR? My
>guess is "no" but I can't locate an FAR reference that clarifies the
>question. You can read what is or is not a "major modification" either way
>as to whether the ignition is part of the "electrical" system or not. Your
>input would be appreciated.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crowbar protection |
> Most alternator shops can do the modification for you.
> Prices relayed to me are in the $30-50 range to open it
> up, remove regulator, rewire, reassemble and test.
Or see my web page for pictures and instructions on a
regulatorectomy on a 60 amp alternator. I bought a junk yard regulator
for 40 bucks, all new bearings and brushes for another 50 bucks.
Regulatorectomy costs nothing. $90 total, good as new, and allowed
me to use Bob's tiny crowbar unit.
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
Tim
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023, engine completed and tested
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 belly stiffener? |
>
>RV-8ers,
>
>George O. recommends installing a single extra stiffener longitudinally
>in the rear fuse bottom skin between bulkheads F-808 and F809. He does
>this to prevent oil canning. Has anyone done this? Does it help? Does
>anyone have a flying airplane without it, and is oilcanning a problem?
>Gotta do this now if I'm going to do it.
>
>Thanks,
>Randy Lervold
>RV-8, #80500, fuse
>Home Wing
>
>
Randy,
I took a hard look at this area and decided I didn't need the extra
stiffener. I guess I could always install it later if I had any oilcanning.
Bill Pagan
"The original and only -8A builders page on the web"
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)excelgeo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Steel fittings in engine |
> If you've ever had an aluminum fitting seize in an aluminum body you'll wish
you had used steel. This happened to me while dry fitting a -6 nipple in
my oil cooler.
This can happen with both steel or aluminum fittings. It is proper to always apply
a small amount of anti seize compound to any fitting that will be installed
in aluminum regardless of the fittings elemental makeup.
The reason steel fittings are suggested for the engine end of hoses is a strength
issue. Constant vibration of the engine can eventually cause aluminum fittings
to fatigue, and fail (sometimes catastrophically) I thinks there was an AD
from Lycoming dealing with this issue and the prop oil supply line.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A s/n 22993
Pine Junction, CO
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Modifications; Re-Inspection Needed? |
> Question: does this change require a re-inspection by the FAA or a DAR?
You may get various answers from the list, but I think the only opinion
that matters is that of your local FSDO. If they say NO then you have
it from them, even if a different FSDO might (probably would) say
different. What's going to matter to the FAA, NTSB or your insurance
company if it ever becomes an issue is what the FSDO said about it when
you asked them. If you didn't ask, then, well..... :-(
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (instruments/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Lattimer <todd(at)lis.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 belly stiffener? |
Hi All,
Please excuse my ignorance, but what is oilcanning?
cheers
Todd
>
>>
>>RV-8ers,
>>
>>George O. recommends installing a single extra stiffener longitudinally
>>in the rear fuse bottom skin between bulkheads F-808 and F809. He does
>>this to prevent oil canning. Has anyone done this? Does it help? Does
>>anyone have a flying airplane without it, and is oilcanning a problem?
>>Gotta do this now if I'm going to do it.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Randy Lervold
>>RV-8, #80500, fuse
>>Home Wing
>>
>>
>Randy,
>
>I took a hard look at this area and decided I didn't need the extra
>stiffener. I guess I could always install it later if I had any
oilcanning.
>
>Bill Pagan
>"The original and only -8A builders page on the web"
>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SPORT AERO <eloveday(at)ici.net> |
| Subject: | Re: replacing rv-4 leading edge on a non pre punched |
kit
>
Does anyone know where I can find sheets of thin acetate or
>have a better idea than the aforementioned method?
>
>Thanks, Arthur E. Glaser Email-- airplane(at)megsinet.net
>
Hi Arthur,
Try drafting mylar - it's available in rolls from any
drafting supplies vendor, also
perhaps from an artists' supply house. Stuff works great - I did
both wings with it.
Ed Loveday
RV-6 20181
struggling with emp. intersection fairing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A versus RV-8A |
Go for the 8! Actually, it's purely personal choice. Most of my flying is
done solo, and I do some aerobatics and like to be on the centerline. I'm
also 25 and want that F-18 that I never got to fly, so I went for the 8. You
really can't go wrong no matter which one you choose though.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
----- Original Message -----
From: Haywood, Charles E., MAJ, ODCSOPS <HAYWOCE(at)hqda.army.mil>
Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 11:42 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV-6A versus RV-8A
>
>Hi all:
>
>I am new to the list, and am close to the ordering stage. I have not yet
>decided which plane to build, but have winnowed list down to the RV-6A and
>the RV-8A. Right now I am leaning towards the RV-6A, because the SBS
>configuration is more appealing for XC flight (I think), and because I
might
>enjoy showing others how to fly one day. However, the part of me that
can't
>resist photos of spitfires and ponies won't let go of that RV-8 so easily.
>Please send me any thoughts you may have on this topic, why you selected
the
>model you did, etc. I know this topic is a dead horse, so please send
>responses to me personally instead of via rv-list.
>
>Also, I have not yet seen an actual RV-8 or 8A. If anyone in the Northern
>Virginia / DC area has an RV-8 that is nearing completion, and would be
>willing to let me sit in it and make airplane noises, I would be much
>obliged. Ed Anderson was nice enough to let me see his RV-6A and his Mazda
>rotary conversion. Very impressive!
>
>Finally, if anyone in the area is willing to provide an orientation flight
>in an RV of any type, I'll gladly pay for the fuel.
>
>Regards,
>Ed Haywood
>Drooling over brochures and catalogs
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 belly stiffener? |
In a message dated 3/15/99 8:00:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
randylervold(at)csi.com writes:
<< George O. recommends installing a single extra stiffener longitudinally
in the rear fuse bottom skin between bulkheads F-808 and F809. He does
this to prevent oil canning. Has anyone done this? Does it help? Does
anyone have a flying airplane without it, and is oilcanning a problem?
Gotta do this now if I'm going to do it.
>>
Randy,
I intalled a single rib similar to the F-818 ribs on my RV-8. I installed my
S-Tec pitch servo as well as some other goodies to this rib. I'm using an
IO360, so I need the tail weight. I know of a number of RV-4 builders who
also installed ribs in the same location to get rid of oilcanning. I had a
similar problem with portions of the rear side skins on my RV-6. I simply
prosealed a piece of lightweight 3/4" .032 angle directly to the skin. It
stiffened the skin and got rid of the oilcanning. You could possibly do the
same on the RV-8 at a later time if you felt it was necessary.
Rick McBride
rickrv6(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Gray <bsgray(at)ntplx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming crankshaft A/D |
Trevor,
Well don't leave us hanging, how did the
inspection go?
Bruce
Trevor Mills wrote:
>
> Please Help !!!!!! Today we were to take delivery of our RV6, but we noticed
an A/D in the maintenance release that has to be done by next month, the exact
number I have lost from memory.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-List Digest: 03/13/99 |
Ok, please enlighten me. Normal physics says that acceleration is only needed to
change
velocity (V = Vo + at). At a constant roll rate no acceleration should be needed.
Are you saying that if you release the stick, the airplane stops rolling? If so,
how much
acceleration is needed to keep, say a 180 degree/sec roll? More than, say, 1/4G?
I definitely agree that violently starting or stopping a roll will add significant
G's to an
already highly G loaded plane.
Finn
"CROWELL,JEFF (HP-Boise,ex1)" wrote:
>
> Sorry, this is wrong. It takes a continuous acceleration
> to raise that wing.
>
> Rolling pullouts create a significant higher 'G' loading on
> the rising wing.
>
> Jeff
> (buying the tools to build the plane)
>
> Gordon or Marge Comfort wrote:
>
> > All of the above supposes there is no aileron input. There was a thread
> > recently about rolling pulls that I don't think was satisfactorily
> resolved.
> > Think about it this way: If we are pulling 5g's without roll input the
> > wings are sharing the 5g loads equally. If we roll vigorously, all the
> > while sustaining 5g's, the wing with the down aileron must carry a larger
> > share of the load. If it does not, then we are either not rolling or we
> > are no longer pulling 5g's.
>
> Only when you start and stop the roll do you add acceleration loads to the
> wings. At a constant roll rate wings share equal loading.
>
> Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert D. Binzer" <robinzer(at)seidata.com> |
As far as the RV-s that will always be VFR....On a clear but hazy day
departure from Cleveland Lakefront or Meigs, left turn out to the lake.
You will need some instruments. VFR on a dark night and/or hazy night
is okay, until the Interstate your following disappears suddenly, then
it's the old 180 on instruments. Never say never I say. Bob Binzer (-6
or -6a Wings) N685AL (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOOREWAR(at)aol.com |
Has anyone used Superfil - the blue 2 part filler from ACS? I used some to
fair in some parts on my-4 and it is still soft kinda like clay after about a
month. Know I mixed it correctly (after pro-sealing my tanks and firewall I
know all about mixing horrible goos). It has a shelf life, and I had two to
go, maybe it went bad early? Is Dynalite better?
Warren Moore
N223WM -- bolting $$ into my canoe.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | wing loads due to rolling, was RV-List Digest: 03/13/99 |
When the aircraft is rolling you are changing the angle of attack on
the wings. The wing going up sees a lower angle of attack, and the
wing going down sees a higher angle of attack. Thus the wing going
up is producing less lift (ignoring any aileron deflection for the
moment), and wing going down produces more lift. This difference in
lift produces a rolling moment which opposes the direction of roll
(roll damping). So, if we released the stick, the aircraft would
stop rolling. We need to keep the stick deflected if we want the
roll to continue.
There is also a small contribution to roll damping from the tail
surfaces and landing gear side area. So, to keep that aircraft
rolling, we need to keep the ailerons deflected enough to counter the
damping from the wings and other parts of the aircraft. The wing
going up will be producing slightly more lift than it would in level
flight, but more importantly (from a structural point of view), the
lift distribution is very different. The inboard part of the wing is
actually producing less lift (lower angle of attack), so the outboard
part must produce significantly more lift (due to aileron deflection)
to make the total lift come out right. This puts a lot of extra load
on some parts of the wing spar.
Note that this discussion ignores any loads due to roll acceleration.
The wing spar is designed for 6g in symmetrical flight (no rolling)
at the aerobatic gross weight. If we roll while pulling those 6g we
are putting more load on the spar than it is designed for.
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Engineering Test Pilot (613) 952-4319 (work)
Transport Canada
Ottawa, Canada http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
If you release the stick the aircraft stops rolling.
>
> Ok, please enlighten me. Normal physics says that acceleration is
> only needed to change
> velocity (V = Vo + at). At a constant roll rate no acceleration
> should be needed.
>
> Are you saying that if you release the stick, the airplane stops
> rolling? If so, how much
> acceleration is needed to keep, say a 180 degree/sec roll? More
> than, say, 1/4G?
>
> I definitely agree that violently starting or stopping a roll will
> add significant G's to an
> already highly G loaded plane.
>
> Finn
>
> "CROWELL,JEFF (HP-Boise,ex1)" wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Sorry, this is wrong. It takes a continuous acceleration
>> to raise that wing.
>>
>> Rolling pullouts create a significant higher 'G' loading on
>> the rising wing.
>>
>> Jeff
>> (buying the tools to build the plane)
>>
>> Gordon or Marge Comfort wrote:
>>
>> > All of the above supposes there is no aileron input. There was a thread
>> > recently about rolling pulls that I don't think was satisfactorily
>> resolved.
>> > Think about it this way: If we are pulling 5g's without roll input the
>> > wings are sharing the 5g loads equally. If we roll vigorously, all the
>> > while sustaining 5g's, the wing with the down aileron must carry a larger
>> > share of the load. If it does not, then we are either not rolling or we
>> > are no longer pulling 5g's.
>>
>> Only when you start and stop the roll do you add acceleration loads to the
>> wings. At a constant roll rate wings share equal loading.
>>
>> Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Modifications; Re-Inspection Neede |
Without getting into the merits (or not) of AVEMCO's position regarding
the Long EZ incident, it is clear that the court ruling in favor of
AVEMCO has, I believed, confused two different parts of the FAR in so
far as their applicability to homebuilt aircraft(my opinion). In any
case, I have made some cowl mods changing the airintake opening and have
decided that to protect myself from a similar ruling against the Long EZ
pilot to notify my local FSO of my modification. Fortunately, I am
still in my test flight period and do not expect any additional test
time to be required. If an air opening mod can be considered "Major", I
can't help but believe that an ignition mod would be also.
The following inserted was provided by Marvin Kay on the Long EZ
incident and I for one agree with Marving's interpretation.
> The unfortunate upshot of this particular court decision is that they (the appellate
court) have managed to wrap FAR 21.93 with FAR 43 App. A to determine
just what _does_ constitute a major alteration. Now that that has been accomplished,
it's obvious that Avemco (and any other insurer for that matter) has
been granted a permanent escape clause which could be quoted at the drop of a
hat should any of us experimental aircraft builders find ourselves trying to establish
that a given mod was within the bounds of FAR 21.93.
>
> Here's a quote from the Long Beach FSDO newsletter regarding major
> alterations that you might find interesting:
>
> >The certification regulations, both for the engine and aircraft, require extensive
testing of the powerplant installation to verify its reliable operation
within established operation limitations on parameters such as temperature, RPM,
pressure, carburetor icing, etc. Any alteration that would require retest
or engineering analysis to measure the effect and reverify such reliable operation
would be a major alteration. This would include any alteration that could
change airflow, either around (cooling) or through (power) the engine.
>Such alterations might be changes to the cowling shape, cooling airflow baffles,
and induction and exhaust systems. Similarly, pressure, or temperature (such
as filter installations) would be major alterations.
> Changes to powerplant controls are generally a major alteration because they
require test and evaluation to determine (measure) the effect.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 belly stiffener? |
>George O. recommends installing a single extra stiffener longitudinally
in the rear fuse bottom skin between bulkheads F-808 and F809. He does
this to prevent oil canning.<
Randy, It has also been suggested to me to extend the mid longeron back on
bay to the F-810 buldhead. These are both large areas with no support and
I can see how oil canning could be a problem (maybe loosening rivets in the
long run?).
I e-mailed Van's to get thier opinion as I am concerned that the stiffners
may just transfer vibrations to someplace else and cause other problems
down the road. Tom Green said they have had no problems (several hundred
hours vs. a potential couple thousand over the aircrafts life) and see no
need for the stiffners (no surprise) but would pass the question on to
engineering. It has been a couple months and I have heard no more.
Perhaps Scott McD can get us the engineers thoughts.
Scott A. Jordan
80331
starting fuselage & still wondering
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
If it is an RV-6 you are building, then you will need a set of dimple dies
for the #8 screws that hold the tanks one. I used both the regular dimple
dies and a set of close-quarter dies. I got all of them from Avery. You
will also need to counter sink for #8 screws in eight places (I think) near
the inboard end of each tank. I am at work and my airplane is in the shop
at home, so all this is from memory.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message-----
Am I going to need a countersink cutter larger than 1/8" for
the wings, i.e., 3/16"?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Haywood, Charles E., MAJ, ODCSOPS" <HAYWOCE(at)hqda.army.mil> |
| Subject: | RV-6A versus RV-8A |
Thanks for the advice, Moe. You're right ... I can't lose.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Moe Colontonio [SMTP:moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net]
> Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 9:59 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6A versus RV-8A
>
>
> Go for the 8! Actually, it's purely personal choice. Most of my flying is
> done solo, and I do some aerobatics and like to be on the centerline. I'm
> also 25 and want that F-18 that I never got to fly, so I went for the 8.
> You
> really can't go wrong no matter which one you choose though.
>
> Moe Colontonio
> moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
> Check out my RV-8 Page at:
> http://tabshred.com/moe
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Haywood, Charles E., MAJ, ODCSOPS <HAYWOCE(at)hqda.army.mil>
> To: 'RV List'
> Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 11:42 AM
> Subject: RV-List: RV-6A versus RV-8A
>
>
>
> >
> >Hi all:
> >
> >I am new to the list, and am close to the ordering stage. I have not yet
> >decided which plane to build, but have winnowed list down to the RV-6A
> and
> >the RV-8A. Right now I am leaning towards the RV-6A, because the SBS
> >configuration is more appealing for XC flight (I think), and because I
> might
> >enjoy showing others how to fly one day. However, the part of me that
> can't
> >resist photos of spitfires and ponies won't let go of that RV-8 so
> easily.
> >Please send me any thoughts you may have on this topic, why you selected
> the
> >model you did, etc. I know this topic is a dead horse, so please send
> >responses to me personally instead of via rv-list.
> >
> >Also, I have not yet seen an actual RV-8 or 8A. If anyone in the
> Northern
> >Virginia / DC area has an RV-8 that is nearing completion, and would be
> >willing to let me sit in it and make airplane noises, I would be much
> >obliged. Ed Anderson was nice enough to let me see his RV-6A and his
> Mazda
> >rotary conversion. Very impressive!
> >
> >Finally, if anyone in the area is willing to provide an orientation
> flight
> >in an RV of any type, I'll gladly pay for the fuel.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Ed Haywood
> >Drooling over brochures and catalogs
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> -
>
> -
>
> -
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 belly stiffener? |
<< I e-mailed Van's to get thier opinion as I am concerned that the stiffners
may just transfer vibrations to someplace else and cause other problems
down the road. >>
Hi All:
We install *two* stiffeners between 8 & 9, and a single between 9 & 10, on the
Rockets. Rick McBride's suggestion of proseal is a good one for a retro-fit!
Run the stiffeners to within 1/8" of the bulkhead, and you should have no
problems. This area normally flexes only under loads associated with turf or
rough field operations ( sort of like the C-140 I learned in).
The -4 I built has over 1000hrs on it by now, and no problems in this area.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 belly stiffener? |
>Hi All:
>
Rick McBride's suggestion of proseal is a good one for a retro-fit!
>Check six!
>Mark
Another possibility for easy retrofit is the use of double sided
strcutural adhesive tape made by 3M. Dont have the part number off the top
of my head but its not the stuff you find in the hardware store; much
stronger! It was discussed a couple of years ago so should be in the
archives. My local distriubtor for 3M products gave me a couple of sample
rolls (3 yards per roll I think). If anybody is interested and cant find a
part number in the archive let me know and I will look it up tonight.
Mike Wills
RV-4 saving for the finish kit
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Drilling canopy to frame |
I am about to drill the canopy to the frame. I managed to find a 1/8 plexi
drill bit (couldn't find a 3/32 anywhere), but before I start, I have a
couple of questions.
1. what size bit should I use first, and what type, ie #40, #30 or the 1/8
(#30) plexi bit.
2. If I do use the plexi bit, I assume I shouldn't drill into the steel
frame, right?!
Also, after I made the monumental cut on Saturday with the garage cranked
up to 78degrees, the fitting and cutting went great, but...... because the
plexi now can bend and flex more, and can sit down on the front bow, when I
push down on the top center front of the plexi at the bow, the side of the
front sweeps back away from the bow. Geometrically, it seems that this is
the only possibility, and therefore, to properly attach the plexi, I must
move the top front center of the plexi forward approx 1 inch. Is this what
has happened to others or am I missing something here?
Thanks in advance for any help!
Dan Wiesel
RV6a QB Canopy frame in, fearing canopy install
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tools for wings |
Assuming you are building an RV6 or 6A, you will not need a countersink bit
larger than 1/8th for the wings. I don't know about the RV8.
R.C.
6A fus on the way
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry" <larryjenison(at)voyager.net> |
| Subject: | E.I.S. Engine Monitoring |
Would like to find someone who's used the Engine Information System by Grand
Rapids Technologies Inc. Currently this monitors 2 cylinders for CHT-EGT.
They should have a model out soon that monitors all 4 cylinders.
I have probes to all four cylinders and use four position switch to check
each cylinder.
I like the concept of alarm and programmable limits. the cost seems
reasonable for this protection. If someone has experience with this system .
I would like your impute.
Larry Jenison
RV-3 93JP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)riolink.com> |
| Subject: | CS Spinner Clearance |
Preparatory to making the blade-slot cutting template for my
0360/Hartzell CS spinner, I manually rotated the blades into
full-coarse. At this position the blade just contacts the rear plate.
Doesn't displace it but just touches. What clearance is necessary and
what is the fix? Washers?
Jim RV6A New Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kirkpatrick, Pat W" <pat.w.kirkpatrick(at)intel.com> |
You do not NEED a countersink for #8 screws. You can get away with a #30 and
cs the hole deep enough for a #8 screw head, then drill out to #19. You do
need a dimple set and a limited access dimple set for #8 screws.
My PERSONAL suggestion is to get a cs for #8 screws. It has a larger body on
it than the #40 and #30 cs's. I think the smaller ones are 3/8 of an inch
and the one for #8 screws (#19), has a 1/2 inch body. This will be a
neccesity when you do the 4 screws on the 6A gear leg mounts which need to
be countersunk for a 3/16 flat head screw. I assume (theres that word) the
8A will need it too.
Pat Kirkpatrick
RV-6A inspection complete, first flight when these damn winds die down later
this week!
Rio Rancho, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert B. Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com> |
You mean when the winds die down in about May-June for the monsoon season
(also called the verticle-cloud-avoidance-flying) to start!
Question about the reference to the limited access dimple set. I am about
to purchase a set from Avery, any preferences as to the flat-sided Vs. the
small diameter?
Rob Reece
RV-3 SN 45
Socorro, NM
505-835-3644
Rob Reece
Rocket Propulsion Test Facility
c/o EMRTC
NM Tech Mail Station
Socorro, NM 87801
(505) 835-5716
(505) 835-5299 fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | E.I.S. Engine Monitoring |
Hello, Larry, (and other listers considering this type of display)
I have been using my EIS in my O-360 powered RV-6 for the last
196 hours (20 months flying)and I have no complaints about the
system.
I monitor 4 EGTs and 4 CHTs as well as manifold pressure and all
the other standard measurable parameters. I.E. tachometer, oil
temperature,
oil pressure, outside air temperature, volt meter, flight run time,
and engine hour meter (or airframe hours - my preference).
I talked with Greg, the owner (Greg R. Toman -- GRT, and Grand Rapids
Technologies -- GRT, neat, huh? He should use GRT as his manufacturing
logo. He should put a manufacturing logo ON HIS PRODUCT so everyone
knows
who makes it!) and he provided two rotary two position wafer switches so
I could select front and rear cylinders to display EGT and CHT readings.
I have mine set up so the front two cylinders (1 & 2) display EGT & CHT
on the second screen, and then I rotate the two wafer switches to show
the rear cylinders (3 & 4) to display their EGT & CHT on the same screen
in place of cylinders 1 & 2.
You can wire it so all four cylinders display EGT first and when you
rotate the wafer switches, you will then see all four CHTs displayed
simultaneously. I just prefer to monitor front cylinder temps and then
rear cylinder temps.
The programmable set points are a real benefit, as is the BRL (Big Red
Light), or Master Warning indicator. It really gets your attention by
its flashing whenever an out of parameter condition exists, like when
in a long climb, the cylinder head temperatures climb to your preset
limit. A quick glance at the display screen will immediately inform
you of which measured variable is out of limit by it's digital display
only will be blinking. Now you know that CHT #3 is reaching it's limit.
To acknowledge the alarm condition, just press the ACK button. To do
something ABOUT the problem, just lower the nose to get better cooling
airflow through the baffling. Try that on a rent-a-Cesspool!
I bought the Super sized display version which is physically larger,
and I also got the Advanced software version, with 4 EGTs and 4 CHTs,
and the optional Manifold Pressure transducer.
The back lit, easy to read display has about five or six pages of
data, and you can program a favorite display to be defaulted to. I
prefer the display that has seven parameters displayed simultaneously.
They are: RPM, MAP, Oil Temp, Oil Press, CHTs 1 & 2 (or 3 & 4), and
EGTs 1 & 2 (or 3 & 4).
My only complaint is, I wish he would have made it 6 1/4 inches wide
so it would mount in the radio stack just like a radio tray. I had
to make a sub face panel so I could mount it at the top of my radio
stack. Not really a complaint, just an observation.
I think Greg has a model out now that has fuel level, fuel flow and
fuel pressure capabilities. I think I will upgrade for that soon.
My overall appraisal is it is a very good quality system for the price.
I have just under $900.00 in my system (two years ago pricing). I
like it so well I am going to put one in my BMW motorcycle, (a 1983
model R-100RT that I put 175,000 miles on) only I will have 2 EGTs
and 2 CHTs and no manifold pressure.
Also, this unit has an internal unit temperature display as well as
outside air temperature. I think the internal temperature could be
better utilized as a carburetor air temperature to warn of icing.
I installed mine without any kind of difficulty, and found Greg Toman
to be very helpful. He can be reached at (616)531-4893.
I hope this has been some help. Being able to monitor multiple
parameters of my engine on long cross country flights has been a
comforting thing for me for the last nearly 200 trouble free hours.
Marshall M. Dues
RV-6 N243MD
DWH airport (Houston area)
Katy, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM> |
Hello Listers,
Dumb Question. Do I need an altitude encoder with a Class 1A Transponder
like the Bendix-King KT-76A?
Bill Pagan
"The original and only -8A builders page on the web"
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponders |
>
>Hello Listers,
>
>Dumb Question. Do I need an altitude encoder with a Class 1A
Transponder
>like the Bendix-King KT-76A?
>Bill Pagan
>"The original and only -8A builders page on the web"
>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
Bill,
There's no such thing as a dumb question, but I have a dumb sounding
answer:
Yup. :)
Just wired the harness from my KT-76A to the encoder. Wasn't hard at
all. However, I have no idea if it works yet! I guess I have to pay
someone with complex test gear to certify it for me.
Brian Denk
RV8 #379
panel done, waiting on finish kit and engine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William G. Lea" <mail.hic.net(at)hic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 belly stiffener? |
I'd be real careful about adding stiffeners to the belly. I know of at least
one RV-6A where two sections of longeron material were added to reduce oil
canning and quickly cracked the skins at the terminus. At the time it was
speculated that the longerons concentrated the stress at their end points and
needed to be tied into the bulkhead. This was done and I didn't hear any more
about it but I wasn't there long enough to see if the fix really took. My point
is simple. If your going to change the structure of the aircraft how it flexes
and how stress is distributed in flight you'd better be sure that the changes
don't just move loads around so that a part is over stressed inadvertently. I
think you'd be better off terminating the stiffener in a heavier piece of
material but then I not building a 8 and I'm not at the fuselage stage either.
I just wanted to let you folks know that this sort of thing HAS caused cracks in
the belly skins of at least one 6A. For what that's worth.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling canopy to frame |
Here is what I did:
>
> 1. what size bit should I use first, and what type, ie #40, #30 or the 1/8
> (#30) plexi bit.
I used the plexi bit only on the plexi I don't recall that I drilled undersize
and then larger.
>
> 2. If I do use the plexi bit, I assume I shouldn't drill into the steel
> frame, right?!
I used two drills. Be careful as the pointy plexi bit has not quite done it all
so the cobalt does cut a wee bit of plastic.
>
> Also, after I made the monumental cut on Saturday with the garage cranked
> up to 78degrees, the fitting and cutting went great, but...... because the
> plexi now can bend and flex more, and can sit down on the front bow, when I
> push down on the top center front of the plexi at the bow, the side of the
> front sweeps back away from the bow. Geometrically, it seems that this is
> the only possibility, and therefore, to properly attach the plexi, I must
> move the top front center of the plexi forward approx 1 inch. Is this what
> has happened to others or am I missing something here?
You have now not just plexi but a windshield and a canopy (for ease in
communication). I guess you are doing a slider???
If you are talking about the windshield, I hope you haven't cut too much off the
front of the windshield. If you are talking about the canopy...
does it fit the slider center tube?
is the rear of the canopy too high still?
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)excelgeo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling canopy to frame |
Dan Wiesel wrote:
> 1. what size bit should I use first, and what type, ie #40, #30 or the 1/8
> (#30) plexi bit.
I drilled mine with my trusty #41 bit through the canopy and then into the
steel. I then opened the holes in the canopy to 3/16 using a plastic drill.
Never did use my 1/8" plastic drill. I drilled the holes in the plexi 5/32
along the top center tube .
>
>
> 2. If I do use the plexi bit, I assume I shouldn't drill into the steel
> frame, right?!
Correct, you would find this out for yourself soon enough. The plastic drill
will not drill the 4130 tubing.
> Also, after I made the monumental cut on Saturday with the garage cranked
> up to 78degrees, the fitting and cutting went great, but...... because the
> plexi now can bend and flex more, and can sit down on the front bow, when I
> push down on the top center front of the plexi at the bow, the side of the
> front sweeps back away from the bow. Geometrically, it seems that this is
> the only possibility, and therefore, to properly attach the plexi, I must
> move the top front center of the plexi forward approx 1 inch. Is this what
> has happened to others or am I missing something here?
Have you drilled and attached the windscreen yet? This is a must do next step.
After the windscreen is installed, check the fit of the canopy, front bow and
windscreen at the same time. The canopy will most likely need some shimming
along the top of the front bow and some of the sweep back will be corrected. If
not then you will have to move the canopy forward on the frame and recut the
front edge to make it parallel to the windscreen. If you do this make sure that
you don't move the canopy to far forward and short yourself on the aft bow.
> RV6a QB Canopy frame in, fearing canopy install
I found the canopy installation the easy part. The frame was the hard part. If
the frame is correct the canopy just fits.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A s/n 22993 Painting the interior
Pine Junction, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Man Press/Fuel Flow Guages |
>1) the correct screening of our manifold/fuel flow instrument: with
>an
>io-360, constant speed prop, what would be the recommended marking on
>our
>gauge? i believe the manifold side goes from 0 to 45 in hg abs; the
>fuel
>flow side goes from 0 to 24 gallons per hour, ala piper arrow
>configuration.
>(we are using an older 1965 vintage garwin indicator)
-
there is no requirement for markings on these instruments since there is
no FAR requirement to have a fuel flow or manifold pressure gage (even in
an airplane with a constant speed propeller).
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
>
>2)comments on the airspeed indicator markings. red radial line 242
>mph,
>yellow arc 191- 241, green 110-190, white 50-109.
>
>thanks in advance,
>
>jim tillman/chris landry
>rv8 80655, starting right wing, fuselage on order
>fayetteville/newnan, ga
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: tools for wings |
>If it is an RV-6 you are building, then you will need a set of dimple
>dies
>for the #8 screws that hold the tanks one. I used both the regular
>dimple
>dies and a set of close-quarter dies. I got all of them from Avery.
>You
>will also need to counter sink for #8 screws in eight places (I think)
>near
>the inboard end of each tank.
-
Actually I think the const. manual recommends machine countersinking the
fwd row of screw holes where the tank attaches to the fwd flange of the
wing spar.
This could be done with the tank installed on the wing (with plate nuts
on the wing) and use a #40 counter sink cutter. The pilot will center in
the screw socket portion of the plate nut (put screws in adjacent holes
to make sure the holes all stay aligned).
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 belly stiffener? |
> I e-mailed Van's to get thier opinion as I am concerned that the
>stiffners
>may just transfer vibrations to someplace else and cause other
>problems
>down the road. Tom Green said they have had no problems (several
>hundred
>hours vs. a potential couple thousand over the aircrafts life) and
>see no
>need for the stiffners (no surprise) but would pass the question on to
>engineering. It has been a couple months and I have heard no more.
>
>Perhaps Scott McD can get us the engineers thoughts.
>
I don't want this to sound the wrong way... but I don't really know any
other way to say it.
If engineering thought it was necessary... It would have been in the
plans and the required parts would have been included in the kit.
Their is nothing wrong with adding the stiffeners if you want to except
for added weight. I know it's not much, but a few ounces here, and a few
ounces there add up to pounds at the end.
Each builder has to decide if it is important to them, and then build
accordingly.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Modifications; Re-Inspection Needed? |
>I have ordered a LightSpeed Hall Effect electronic ignition module to
>replace the right mag on my NON-CERTIFIED Lycoming 0-320 in my RV-6A.
>Question: does this change require a re-inspection by the FAA or a
>DAR? My
>guess is "no" but I can't locate an FAR reference that clarifies the
>question. You can read what is or is not a "major modification" either
>way
>as to whether the ignition is part of the "electrical" system or not.
>Your
>input would be appreciated.
>
>
To re-enforce what has been already said... the only thing that matters
is whether someone with the FAA considers it a major change (likely they
will). Don't bother calling your insurance company. When an accident
happens, all they care is whether the FAA considers the aircraft to have
been airworthy and compliant with the FAR's at the time of the accident.
P.S. I said it is likely they will consider it a major change but
something like this usually results in them just telling you to return
the aircraft to Phase 1 flight test and fly off 5 test hours with no
reinspection required.
Get a letter in writing from the person you deal with regarding what is
or is not required.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: CS Spinner Clearance |
>
>Preparatory to making the blade-slot cutting template for my
>0360/Hartzell CS spinner, I manually rotated the blades into
>full-coarse. At this position the blade just contacts the rear plate.
>Doesn't displace it but just touches. What clearance is necessary and
>what is the fix? Washers?
-
Yes!
Or for any builders that do this check before assembling the doubler to
the spinner back plate, you can install the doubler on the front side of
the back plate and allow it to take the place of the washers. It seems
that the high pitch limit in the props varies slightly from one to
another. For some the provided spacers are just right for others it
takes a washer.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Steel fittings in engine |
>Does anyone know why Vans recommends steel fittings for all -4 and -6
>hose fittings mounted on the engine? This was emphasised in Bill
>Benedict's article a couple of RVators back.
>
>Yes, I asked Vans and got the reply that steel is recommended except
>for the -6 fuel fitting on the carb! (Bill shows steel here too!) I
>wasn't a whole heap wiser.
>
>If it's for vibration resistance, the far end of the hose could be
>subject to similar forces but aluminium is specified here. If it's
>for vibration resistance, why are the -8 (oil lines) excluded.
>
>(Scott McD, would you be able to expand on the somewhat economical
>explanation I received from your namesake?)
-
Well... Bill and I don't totally agree on this issue. I feel that any -4
fittings should be steel because they are small and could possibly break.
I believe this is Bill's reason also, though he also includes the -6's.
The -8's are pretty stout and not very likely to break.
The reason steel isn't as necessary on the firewall end is because the
hose is helping to isolate the fitting from the engine vibration, but on
the engine end the fitting is shaking around with the engine and then
having the hose shaking from the fitting.
The likely hood of a fitting breaking (even if you use all aluminum) is
extremely remote if the hoses are supported properly using Adel clamps
in the appropriate locations (see A.C. 43.13).
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich <themop(at)gte.net> |
Hi!
I've been following closely this list for a while now, and this is
my first post. I haven't really see anything related to what I'm about
to ask in the archive, so here it is.
Embarking on such a journey that building a kit is, is not to be
taken lightly, with reasons. I'm nothing short of passionate about
aviation having grown up surrounded by pilots, having the dream of
flying for a living and finally ending up as an avionic engineer,
working in a preflight environment, thus I'm use to repair and building.
My fiancee is also an avionic, but works for the technical publications
department of a large aerospace company, and she also has plenty of shop
floor experience. So, on the technical side, we're pretty much up to the
challenge. Money wouldn't be a burden in the long run either. And as for
time, well, we'll make it! :)
I'm pretty committed to this project, but I'm afraid I can't really
share my enthusiasm with her. I'm fully aware that this is the kind of
boat where all rowers have to pull together. So, we're asking your
help... If you have a moment or two, we would really appreciate your
thoughts (and your spouses'!) on the project of building a plane. How
was it for you? Did you need a lot of support? And what about kids?
(I've seen some pictures over the Net of pretty little munchkins making
airplane noises with their dad... :) Did some of you had to cut corners
to make the annual family vacations? A new house?
Well, that type of things. I know it'll probably come down to
something along the line of "setting your priorities", but still,
building a plane is not something that's commonly referred to as a
"normal life experience", so any comments would really be appreciated.
On the homework side, I joined the EAA, I have the Kitplane magazine
sitting around, ordered the "18 years of RVators", got a subscription to
Trade-A-Plane, been talking left and right, check on used "certified"
airplane (you know! the 20yrs old Cessna for 75K$) and all. After much
research, I nailed the -6A like the next best thing to angel's wing on
my back. And naturally, I joined the list. :)
At the top, you got both of our emails, feel free to use them. For work
requirements, we're currently doing the "see you next weekend" thing,
hence, two "home" email...
Thanks in advance folks! And hopefully, soon we'll be needing some more
'help', like how to drive that rivet on so and so spar...
Rich & Nancy
Preview Dwg, RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CS Spinner Clearance |
It probably won't touch when running as the blades "cone" under load.
-----Original Message-----
From: James K. Hurd <hurd(at)riolink.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 4:18 PM
Subject: RV-List: CS Spinner Clearance
>
>Preparatory to making the blade-slot cutting template for my
>0360/Hartzell CS spinner, I manually rotated the blades into
>full-coarse. At this position the blade just contacts the rear plate.
>Doesn't displace it but just touches. What clearance is necessary and
>what is the fix? Washers?
>
>Jim RV6A New Mexico
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponders |
Only if you want to fly using Mode C which is required for certain airspace.
-----Original Message-----
From: pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM>
Date: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 7:05 PM
Subject: RV-List: Transponders
>
>Hello Listers,
>
>Dumb Question. Do I need an altitude encoder with a Class 1A Transponder
>like the Bendix-King KT-76A?
>Bill Pagan
>"The original and only -8A builders page on the web"
>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | POSTMASTER.7(at)micro.honeywell.com (Adminstrator) |
FROM: Adminstrator
TO: rv-list DATE: 03/16/99
TIME: 21:36
SUBJECT: Mail failure
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
User mail failed mailing to mailbag (file does not exist):
>1) the correct screening of our manifold/fuel flow instrument: with >an
>io-360, constant speed prop, what would be the recommended marking on >our
>gauge? i believe the manifold side goes from 0 to 45 in hg abs; the >fuel
>flow side goes from 0 to 24 gallons per hour, ala piper arrow >configuration.
>(we are using an older 1965 vintage garwin indicator)
-
there is no requirement for markings on these instruments since there is
no FAR requirement to have a fuel flow or manifold pressure gage (even in
an airplane with a constant speed propeller).
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
>
>2)comments on the airspeed indicator markings. red radial line 242 >mph,
>yellow arc 191- 241, green 110-190, white 50-109.
>
>thanks in advance,
>
>jim tillman/chris landry
>rv8 80655, starting right wing, fuselage on order
>fayetteville/newnan, ga
>
>
> > > >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | POSTMASTER.7(at)micro.honeywell.com (Adminstrator) |
FROM: Adminstrator
TO: rv-list DATE: 03/16/99
TIME: 21:36
SUBJECT: Mail failure
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
User mail failed mailing to mailbag (file contention):
TX95/P01/MSnook
>1) the correct screening of our manifold/fuel flow instrument: with >an
>io-360, constant speed prop, what would be the recommended marking on >our
>gauge? i believe the manifold side goes from 0 to 45 in hg abs; the >fuel
>flow side goes from 0 to 24 gallons per hour, ala piper arrow >configuration.
>(we are using an older 1965 vintage garwin indicator)
-
there is no requirement for markings on these instruments since there is
no FAR requirement to have a fuel flow or manifold pressure gage (even in
an airplane with a constant speed propeller).
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
>
>2)comments on the airspeed indicator markings. red radial line 242 >mph,
>yellow arc 191- 241, green 110-190, white 50-109.
>
>thanks in advance,
>
>jim tillman/chris landry
>rv8 80655, starting right wing, fuselage on order
>fayetteville/newnan, ga
>
>
> > > >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Modifications; Re-Inspection Needed? |
John,
Since you are changing the original configuration of your
ignition system and will add weight, add to battery drain ect
I would say Yes... Possible new flight test required>>
Stew RV4 CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: tools for wings |
>
>This could be done with the tank installed on the wing (with plate
>nuts
>on the wing) and use a #40 counter sink cutter. The pilot will center
>in
>the screw socket portion of the plate nut (put screws in adjacent
>holes
>to make sure the holes all stay aligned).
>
>
A reply to my reply (for a correction).
If doing the above you would actually need to use a #30 countersink, not
a #40. The # 40 would be used in plate nuts for #6 screws, but these are
#8 screws.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Modifications; Re-Inspection Neede |
However if he
>originally claimed the engine installation was certified, with
>the assistance
>of a licensed A&P, and got a reduced (25 hr) test period that
>could change
>things.
-
I agree with all of the rest of your post, but getting a 25 hr test
period has nothing to do with a "certified engine installation".
The requirement is to have a certified engine/prop combination. Which
means that the prop. and engine have been certified to be used together
on standard airworthiness aircraft.
Having an A&P help with the engine installation does nothing for you
except make things look good to the FAA inspector or DAR that you use
(particularly if you have no prior experience with working on aircraft).
Anyone who still questions the issue of who can install/work on a
"certified" engine in an aircraft that is certified in the
Experimental/Amature built category should read the first 2 paragraphs of
FAR Part 43.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
| Subject: | Differential wing loading during rolls |
> >
> > Rolling pullouts create a significant higher 'G' loading on
> > the rising wing.
In a 1400 pound RV at 6 g's in non-rolling flight, each wing is loaded
about 4200 pounds. Assuming for this analysis that this load is centered
span wise on each wing panel, it generates a bending moment at the wing
root of about 20000 foot-pounds on the spar. I would guess that a rapid
roll rate only requires a differential wing loading of a few hundred pounds
(imagine the roll rate that a couple sand bags in one wing tip would
cause). If we assume, worst case, that the entire differential load is at
the extreme outboard end of the wing, the moment generated by our 200 pound
"sand bag" would be about 2000 foot pounds, or about one tenth the load
from the basic g loading. I believe that 200 pounds at the wing tip would
make for quite a roll rate, but in any case, one needs to be careful making
any conclusions based upon anything other than a thorough aerodynamic and
stress analysis (which this clearly is not!)
Any thoughts?
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling canopy to frame |
> I am about to drill the canopy to the frame. I managed to find a 1/8
plexi
> drill bit (couldn't find a 3/32 anywhere), but before I start, I have a
> couple of questions.
>
> 1. what size bit should I use first, and what type, ie #40, #30 or the
1/8
> (#30) plexi bit.
I used regular #40 (3/32") split point drills for the initial hole, and
then the 1/8" plexi drill to enlarge right through the metal. Practice
drilling with different pressures, speeds, etc. on the scrap flange.
Generally slow speed is better, as faster speeds will cause melting. Never
enlarge a hole in plexi without a plexi drill (or use a modified drill -
see the archives under "alex" and "plexi" for how to modify drill bits for
this).
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag(at)aol.com |
Hi All,
The ELT is a COM radio. But who is normally listening?
The COM antenna is mounted vertical to communicate all around the aircraft,
except straight up.
ELT transmissions are normally monitored by satellite (straight up, more or
less).
If you don't have a VOR NAV receiver, a horizontal COM antenna mounted in the
open wingtip should work very well.
Or, if you could just use a second wingtip COM antenna, if you want all around
and up reasonable well covered.
If you have antenna's in both wingtips, Van's windshield antenna could be
mounted in the back of the canopy to achieve the same effect.
Jim Ayers
Least Drag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "baremetl" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: MOOREWAR(at)aol.com <MOOREWAR(at)aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 12:13 AM
Subject: RV-List: Superfil
>
>Has anyone used Superfil - the blue 2 part filler from ACS? I used some to
>fair in some parts on my-4 and it is still soft kinda like clay after about
a
>month.
I've used a fair amount of the stuff on my fiberglass parts and it has
always set up rock hard in 24 hours. Stored at room temps, mixed 2 parts
blue to 1-1.5 parts white, and at last use the containers were opened 8
months prior. Worked equally well on polyester (with and without gel coat)
and on epoxy. Very pleased with the results.
Ivan Haecker -4 535 hrs. (still thinking about paint someday)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RClayp5888(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling canopy to frame |
Dan,
Use a #40 bit when drilling your canopy to the frame and enlarge to the
appropriate size at the end of your fitting. As far as the fit of the
canopy...I actually split the canopy into the two sections and cut and fit
them separately matching them to the roll bar of course. Leave a whole bunch
of excess canopy and cut multiple times...start at the top of the roll bar and
work back. At least this is what worked for me. Bob Claypool . Starting to
install the engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
Well, now that I have your undivided attention with that subject
line......
Have you sent your letter/ fax /email to JPI this week?
If so, you are supporting Matt. Thanks from all of us who are doing
likewise.
If not, you are giving support and comfort to JPI, because they are
hoping you will get tired and go away. Will you?
Write to them right now. Just a polite sentence to let them know you are
still waiting for them to withdraw the ultimatum from Matronics. Feel
free to plagiarise my letter for this week below if it helps. Contact
details are
JP Instruments
Box 7033 Huntington Beach
CA 92646
Fax 714 557 9840
Tech support email (not the best option) 75147.3127(at)compuserve.com
The President,
JP Instruments
PO Box 7033
Huntington Beach CA 92615
USA
Dear sir,
I saw your full page colour advertisement in the most recent "Sport
Aviation", and my immediate reaction was, "JPI has not rescinded its
unacceptable action against Matronics yet." I would wager that my
reaction was mirrored by hundreds, if not thousands, of your customers
and potential customers.
How many full page colour advertisements will it take to counter word
of mouth simmering discontent with your actions?
How many companies do you know who have grown their businesses by
listening to their lawyers rather than their customers?
I urge you to take the initiative and resolve the matter. Doing
nothing will only exacerbate your problem.
Yours sincerely,
Peter L Bennett
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Differential wing loading during rolls |
>
>
>> >
>> > Rolling pullouts create a significant higher 'G' loading on
>> > the rising wing.
>
> In a 1400 pound RV at 6 g's in non-rolling flight, each wing is loaded
> about 4200 pounds. Assuming for this analysis that this load is centered
> span wise on each wing panel, it generates a bending moment at the wing
> root of about 20000 foot-pounds on the spar. I would guess that a rapid
> roll rate only requires a differential wing loading of a few hundred pounds
> (imagine the roll rate that a couple sand bags in one wing tip would
> cause). If we assume, worst case, that the entire differential load is at
> the extreme outboard end of the wing, the moment generated by our 200 pound
> "sand bag" would be about 2000 foot pounds, or about one tenth the load
> from the basic g loading. I believe that 200 pounds at the wing tip would
> make for quite a roll rate, but in any case, one needs to be careful making
> any conclusions based upon anything other than a thorough aerodynamic and
> stress analysis (which this clearly is not!)
> Any thoughts?
The problem as I understand it is not so much the total load on the
wing, and the consequent bending moment at the wing root. The actual
problem is the different distribution of the load along the wing.
Because the wing going up sees a lower angle of attack, the part of
the wing inboard of the aileron produces less lift than in
non-rolling flight. The outboard part of the wing produces
significantly more lift - it must produce enough lift to make up for
the lost lift on the inboard section, plus extra lift to produce the
rolling moment. This extra load produced by the outboard wing will
put a lot of extra load on the midspan part of the wing spar.
Lets say that the in your example the inboard half the wing sees its
load reduced by 500 lb due to the increase in angle of attack of the
up going wing. The outboard wing, which was carrying 2100 lb, now
must carry 2600 lb, plus whatever is required to overcome the roll
damping. This increase of load from 2100 to 2600 will produce a lot
more bending moment on the spar at mid span. These numbers are just
pulled out of the air to illustrate the problem.
Once again - it's not the change in total lift that gets you, it is
the change in lift distribution.
I am not a structural engineer, so I can't give you hard numbers on
how much extra load is put on the spar. I could pull out my Theory
of Wing Sections and run some assumed numbers to see how the wing
lift distribution varies in a roll, but just the thought of doing
that makes my head hurt. My brain isn't as young as it used to be :-)
As an example - the military fast jets that I flew typically had a
max allowable load factor of 7.33g in non-rolling flight. In rolling
flight the limit was reduced to 5.86g. This ratio would not
necessarily apply to our RVs, but it does show that we need to back
off on the rolling while pulling g.
Do we have any structural engineers in the house who would care to
comment on this thread?
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks & fuselage bulkheads)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 belly stiffener? |
Message text written by William Lea:
>I know of at leastone RV-6A where two sections of longeron material were
added to reduce oilcanning and quickly cracked the skins at the terminus.
At the time it was
speculated that the longerons concentrated the stress at their end points
and
needed to be tied into the bulkhead. This was done and I didn't hear any
more
about it but I wasn't there long enough to see if the fix really took. My
point
is simple. If your going to change the structure of the aircraft how it
flexes
and how stress is distributed in flight you'd better be sure that the
changes
don't just move loads around so that a part is over stressed
inadvertently.<
Bill,
Thanks, this is exactly what I was getting at. If I do add stiffners, my
plan has been to tie them into the bulkheads all along. I would still like
Van's engineers response before I do it though. That energy (being
disappated by vibration) is going somewhere and I'ld like to know that the
recipient structure of that energy is up to the task.
Scott A. Jordan
80331
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jimandkathy(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocket photo |
Buster,
Try http://www.maui.net/~russ/rocket/mh.html
Jim Stone
Louisville
Rocket Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sex and the RV |
Peter,
You have such a gift for getting to the point and your message across how
about considering adding more than just your signature to the letter. I
know I would authorize you to add my name to your communications. It would
be more like a petition that way. If any more of you feel the same way then
let Peter know that he can add your name to his letters too and that way
let JPI know in one communique there are a lot of us with the same opinion.
AL Mojzisik
>
>Well, now that I have your undivided attention with that subject
>line......
>
>Have you sent your letter/ fax /email to JPI this week?
>
>If so, you are supporting Matt. Thanks from all of us who are doing
>likewise.
>
>If not, you are giving support and comfort to JPI, because they are
>hoping you will get tired and go away. Will you?
>
>Write to them right now. Just a polite sentence to let them know you are
>still waiting for them to withdraw the ultimatum from Matronics. Feel
>free to plagiarise my letter for this week below if it helps. Contact
>details are
>JP Instruments
>Box 7033 Huntington Beach
>CA 92646
>Fax 714 557 9840
>Tech support email (not the best option) 75147.3127(at)compuserve.com
>
>
>The President,
>JP Instruments
>PO Box 7033
>Huntington Beach CA 92615
>USA
>
>Dear sir,
>
>I saw your full page colour advertisement in the most recent "Sport
>Aviation", and my immediate reaction was, "JPI has not rescinded its
>unacceptable action against Matronics yet." I would wager that my
>reaction was mirrored by hundreds, if not thousands, of your customers
>and potential customers.
>
>How many full page colour advertisements will it take to counter word
>of mouth simmering discontent with your actions?
>
>How many companies do you know who have grown their businesses by
>listening to their lawyers rather than their customers?
>
>I urge you to take the initiative and resolve the matter. Doing
>nothing will only exacerbate your problem.
>
>Yours sincerely,
>
>Peter L Bennett
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponders |
>
>Hello Listers,
>
>Dumb Question. Do I need an altitude encoder with a Class 1A Transponder
>like the Bendix-King KT-76A?
Technically, no. The transponder will work just fine without an encoder.
OTOH, some airspaces require mode-C, e.g. within 30 mi of the primary
airport in class-B airspace, in class-C airspace, above 10,000 feet (did I
get that right?), etc. If you don't install an encoder you will greatly
limit the utility of your airplane.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Buster" <6430(at)axion.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocket photo |
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Stone <jimandkathy(at)EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 5:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rocket photo
>
>Buster,
>Try http://www.maui.net/~russ/rocket/mh.html
>Jim Stone
>
Thanks for that Jim, but it came up URL NOT FOUND..try as I might..would not
work..
Appreciate the thought though..................Austin...Vancouver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Sex and the RV |
>
>Peter,
> You have such a gift for getting to the point and your message across how
>about considering adding more than just your signature to the letter. I
>know I would authorize you to add my name to your communications. It would
>be more like a petition that way. If any more of you feel the same way then
>let Peter know that he can add your name to his letters too and that way
>let JPI know in one communique there are a lot of us with the same opinion.
> AL Mojzisik
Al,
That sure is a smooth attempt to get somebody else to write your letter
for you! Were you a lawyer or snake oil salesman in a past life??
Hey guys, just kidding! It actually sounds like a reasonable approach to
me. If Peter is up for it count me in (I have lots of previous experience
at jumping on bandwagons!).
Mike Wills
RV-4 saving for finish kit
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terrence C. Watson" <tcwatson(at)pstbbs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sex and the RV |
pbennett(at)zip.com writes:
>
>Have you sent your letter/ fax /email to JPI this week?
>
>If so, you are supporting Matt. Thanks from all of us who are doing
>likewise.
>
>If not, you are giving support and comfort to JPI, because they are
>hoping you will get tired and go away. Will you?
Does this mean that since I'm not picketing in front of the White House this
week, I am giving "support and comfort" to Bill Clinton? I may agree with
your cause, but I don't like being called a traitor to that cause because I
don't do what you want me to do when you want me to do it.
Write your letters. Encourage others to do the same. Don't insult those
who think one timely and well thought letter to JPI is enough, or perhaps
those that don't agree with the tactic at all.
Terry Watson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marian Rendall & Scott Sawby" <mkr(at)netw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is anyone doing GPS approaches in an experimental? |
I was following this thread on GPS as I was interested in some day setting
up my 6A for IFR someday, and I was somewhat confused as to just what was
required in the way of instrumentation. I just called the FSDO to clarify
a couple of points and the fellow I talked to said there were no
requirements for experimental aircraft. He said it was basically whatever
I wanted to put in it, but they recommended I follow the standards for
certified aircraft just for safety's sake. Is this true?!!!
Scott Sawby N341SS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Differential wing loading during rolls |
In a message dated 3/17/99 7:20:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
khorton(at)cyberus.ca writes:
<< Lets say that the in your example the inboard half the wing sees its
load reduced by 500 lb due to the increase in angle of attack of the
up going wing. The outboard wing, which was carrying 2100 lb, now
must carry 2600 lb, plus whatever is required to overcome the roll
damping. This increase of load from 2100 to 2600 will produce a lot
more bending moment on the spar at mid span. These numbers are just
pulled out of the air to illustrate the problem.
>>
Kevin,
I think you were on the right thread that it takes very little differential
loading from one wing to the other to initiate or stop a rapid roll,but then
you seemed to have lost that thread once you started talking angle of attack
differences. This same large differential will continue to increase or
decrease the roll rate very quickly. Once you are rolling steady state, there
is almost no differential loading to keep an RV rolling ( I think, not
calculated). We need to calculate the polar moment of inertia around the
fuselage C/L to see how much diffential force is required to initate or stop a
roll. I could do it, but do not wish to take the time to do it at the current
time since I am trying to get an RV flying. I will worry about the rolling
forces later when I am flying!
Bernie Kerr, 6A, bolting dollars to firewall and instrument panel, SE FLA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling canopy to frame |
Thanks Hal,
Yes I'm doing the slider, and I am referring to the canopy. It sits
incredibly well to the spine. One problem I do have, and I intend to post
my thoughts on this whole process when I get some time, is that the for and
aft position that worked well for me before I cut, was quite aft.
Unfortunately, I now have to contend with the canopy rising up just past
the rear bow. This is going to impact my ability to smoothly attach the
rear skirt. But for now, I am still working on the front bow fit.
How about this for drilling.
1. Mark the holes for drilling.
2. Drill thru with 1/8 plexi bit.
3.Reinstall on frame.
4. Use some sort of marking devise to mark hole location on steel
5. Remove plexi and drill steel with regular bit.
>
>Here is what I did:
>>
>> 1. what size bit should I use first, and what type, ie #40, #30 or the 1/8
>> (#30) plexi bit.
>I used the plexi bit only on the plexi I don't recall that I drilled
undersize
>and then larger.
>>
>> 2. If I do use the plexi bit, I assume I shouldn't drill into the steel
>> frame, right?!
>I used two drills. Be careful as the pointy plexi bit has not quite done
it all
>so the cobalt does cut a wee bit of plastic.
>>
>> Also, after I made the monumental cut on Saturday with the garage cranked
>> up to 78degrees, the fitting and cutting went great, but...... because the
>> plexi now can bend and flex more, and can sit down on the front bow, when I
>> push down on the top center front of the plexi at the bow, the side of the
>> front sweeps back away from the bow. Geometrically, it seems that this is
>> the only possibility, and therefore, to properly attach the plexi, I must
>> move the top front center of the plexi forward approx 1 inch. Is this what
>> has happened to others or am I missing something here?
>
>
>You have now not just plexi but a windshield and a canopy (for ease in
>communication). I guess you are doing a slider???
>
>If you are talking about the windshield, I hope you haven't cut too much
off the
>front of the windshield. If you are talking about the canopy...
>
> does it fit the slider center tube?
>
> is the rear of the canopy too high still?
>
>hal
>
>
>
Dan Wiesel
RV6a Slider QB Canopy frame in, Big cut made!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling canopy to frame |
Gary Zilik wrote:
> I found the canopy installation the easy part. The frame was the hard part. If
> the frame is correct the canopy just fits.
I found the canopy easy to cut tho not quite easy to get right :-)
But, Gary is super-right when he says that the frame is the hard part. I
believe that the plexi should be left hanging up in the study (or whereever you
store yours) till the frame is totally done - maybe even painted! The pins
should slide into the blocks; the latch function; the bows should be inside the
fuselage by a 1/16th or so. The plexi goes on when you can say to yourself, "I
have a perfect working frame and a full understanding of the remaining steps".
Being of an impatient nature, I learned this the hard way.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at SCK - Fitting cowl, controls
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling canopy to frame |
> Unfortunately, I now have to contend with the canopy rising up just past
> the rear bow. This is going to impact my ability to smoothly attach the
> rear skirt. But for now, I am still working on the front bow fit.
You don't have to overhang the canopy any specific distance past
the rear bow -- enough to ensure good edge distance is all.
I overhung mine by about an inch and did have some "lifting" on
one side so I ground a bevel in the plexi from the aft edge forward
to the rivet line, which helped make the fairing sit just right.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (instruments/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling canopy to frame |
>
> How about this for drilling.
> 1. Mark the holes for drilling.
> 2. Drill thru with 1/8 plexi bit.
> 3.Reinstall on frame.
> 4. Use some sort of marking devise to mark hole location on steel
> 5. Remove plexi and drill steel with regular bit.
>
> How does that sound??
Not good! I found that the plexi moved around as I fastened it down. I would
drill the plexi while on the frame. I have two drills, one with plexi bit and
one with the standard one. That way, I drill and cleco as I go. Getting me to
drill my canopy while off the frame would be like putting a cat in a bag!
Get a helper and push the canopy down against the center bar. Then pull the
sides down. If the sides fall behind the front bow, then move the whole canopy
forward. If the front bow of the frame matches the roll over bar, then the
plastic parts will line up when screwed down tight to them. The plastic is very
plastic.
I drilled the windshield to the roll bar, clecoing as I went. Then, I took the
windshield off to paint the roll bar. When I put the plastic back, it didn't
fit! When I put the clecos back in in the same order as originally, it did
except at the side bottom. I redrilled a few holes. I believe the plastic can
stretch.
If I do another, I will paint the steel parts before putting the plexi on!
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)ee.cit.ac.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocket photo |
Buster wrote:
> >Try http://www.maui.net/~russ/rocket/mh.html
> >
> Thanks for that Jim, but it came up URL NOT FOUND..try as I might..would not
> work..
For those less Net-wise... if you can't get a page, try leaving off the
last part of the name... that will sometimes help. In this case, you
would try for <http://www.maui.net/~russ/rocket>. That page does still
work, and told me that the Rocket page has moved to
<http://www.matronics.com/rocket/>.
Frank.
--
frankv(at)ee.cit.ac.nz Frank van der Hulst
This is my work account. Weekend email should be
sent to me at frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz.
My home page is http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sex and the RV |
Jeez people!
Stop this! My wife has alway thought I was having a sexual affair with my
airplanes.
Now I will have to put a filter on my RV-list.......
If she see this thread I will be sleeping in the hanger. Hmmm.......
Maybe........ Naw........ Well summer is coming.........
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | flap survey results |
I just finished compiling the results of the flap survey. Got 16 responses
total. I'm not sure how useful this really is except to show there are
almost as many ways of using flaps as there are RV pilots!
A summary of the results follows, then the numbers, then the comments.
----
About half of the respondents sometimes or always use flaps on takeoff,
the other half rarely or never. Of those who do, 10-20 degrees is the
most common setting.
About 2/3 of the respondents use 10-20 degrees of flaps on downwind, the
other 1/3 zero.
20 degrees or half flaps is the most common setting for base.
Most people, not surprisingly, use full flaps on final but there are a
few rebels who use less.
2/3 of the respondents have electric flaps, the other 1/3 manual. Only
one said he'd do it different next time (has manual, would go with electric).
However two respondents originally had manual and converted to electric.
While people seem to use a variety of different settings, most of them seem
to be able to do it without the help of an indicator. 1/3 of the respondents
have flap indicators. Half of those were electronic, the other half, flap
marks. None of the manual flap guys have indicators, although one said if
he had it to do over he'd have manual flaps and an electonic indicator
(seems odd to me but that's what he said!)
Most people seem to like the set-up they have, whatever it is, and would
do it again the same way.
The numbers:
Use flaps on takeoff:
Never/rarely 7
Seldom 2
Sometimes 5
Always 2
Typical flap settings (converted from various measurement methods -- 1/2 = 1
notch = 20 deg, etc. This kind of goes all over the map, but that's at least
partly due to the different set-ups people have -- the manual flap folks typ-
ically have notches at 0, 20 and 40 only, whereas a few of the electric guys
appear to want to use "just a crack" or stop at 25 instead of 20 or 30.
0 5 10 20 25 30 40
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
Takeoff 7 1 5 3 0 1 0
Downwind 6 0 7 3 0 0 0
Base 1 0 2 9 1 1
2
Final 0 0 0 3 2 11
Flap Type: Have now Next time
Manual 5 4
Electric 11 12
Indicator type: Have now Next time
None 12 12
Electronic 2 2
Flap marks 2 2
Comments:
----
With manual flaps the handle tells you how much flap you are using.
D. Malott
RV6 O320 wood prop
----
The reason I opted for electrical flaps was a 100% satisfaction from those
I surveyed who knew of them. Those who didn't have them wished they did and
all said they would do elec if they were doing it over! They are a must for
the 6 or 6A.
I used to do half flaps for x wind landings but have quit that since the damn
thing floats which is couter productive, and the 6A is an awesome x wind
machine wiht full flaps. 25K no sweat until you have to taxi.
D Walsh 6A , 400 hrs, 540 landings.
----
Since RV-4's are so hard to slow down, I put down about 1/4 at about 100
kts. A lot of people will disagree but I have the flap switch easy to
reach and I raise them in the roll out to lock the plane on the ground,
wether I have done a wheel landing or 3-point.
John Kitz
RV-4
300 hours
----
Additional Comments?
A flap indicator is useless on an RV in my opinion. After just a few
lights, you know just by looking where they should be.
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com (RV-8)
----
NO FLAP HANDLE IN THE WAY OF THE THROTTLE ON
AN UNANTICIPATED GO-AROUND WITH ELECTRIC FLAP SYSTEM. ALSO,
IT ONLY TAKES SIX SECONDS FROM FULL UP TO FULL DOWN.
Marshall M. Dues
----
As I said in a previous post, I have a wonderfull electronic indicator that
works great and looks neat. The only problem is I never look at it. My next
airplane will not have one. Its easiest to simply look out at the flap as
your turning in the pattern.
Ryan Bendure Co.
----
The only time I use full flap, is on steep short field approaches, into
short strips. I have a Jon Johansen seat in my RV4, with a modified flap
handle, which makes getting ride of flap a chore. I do a lot of side slipping
also with half flap, and the RV is very stable and controlled. BTW I fly
Tiger Moths a LOT, and they don't have flaps, so the RV is "heaven" .
Thinking about changing to electric flaps, mainly for passenger comfort>>
"Hey Bubba, it's time to land senario"
Ken Glover Newcastle Australia RV4 VH-MKW 450hrs Tiger Moth VH-JAU
----
Like I said, I added a 10 and 30 degree position on my manual flaps, and
shortened the handle enough to let it lay flat when retracted.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
----
I always use flaps at the last minute to lower ground speed & landing
distance. unless x-wind is up there too much.
Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
----
I don't feel the flap indicator from MAC adds significant weight or panel
space, and like having the indicator right next to the toggle switch.
Outside markings would work just as well in the daytime, and I never fly
at night, although my plane is capable.
I don't yet know how keeping the 10 degrees of flap for shortfield T/O would
affect Vx and Vy, so I usually dump the flap while still accelerating in
ground effect and employ my known no-flaps Vx of 78 mph or Vy of 90 mph IAS.
Need to go back and do more thorough flight testing in this regime. Ditto for
effect of flaps on T/O distance.
Plane drops like a rock with full flaps unless flown at 90 mph on final.
Short field full-flap landings take lots of getting used to unless you are
willing to commit to a power-on approach to guarantee making the field.
Bill BOyd
RV-6A 57 hrs
----
I am a gadget man butttt, no gadgets needed here. Hold down switch after
100 mph to about half flaps(look out the window). Adjust accordingly on
final. Best landings are usually obtained with half flaps. 325 hours with
no problems.
Todd tmrv6(at)erols.com RV-6 N92TM Flying in Southern MD
----
I will add more flaps on base if I see that I am high. My intent has
been to apply the KISS principle to my airplane wherever I could.
Bob Hall, RV-6
Colorado Springs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling canopy to frame |
> I believe that the plexi should be left hanging up in the study (or
> whereever you store yours) till the frame is totally done - maybe even
> painted! The pins should slide into the blocks; the latch function; the
> bows should be inside the fuselage by a 1/16th or so. The plexi goes on
> when you can say to yourself, "I have a perfect working frame and a full
> understanding of the remaining steps".
Yes EXCEPT once you drill and cleco the bubble, the plexi will have a
tendency to spread the front bow out a little, and if your frame ran
smoothly in the rails before, it will likely drag on the outside of the
rails once the plexi is on. So bend the front bow in (perhaps 1/8" in
from optimal on each side), then once the plexi is on it should run
smooth. You could wait till after the plexi is drilled on there to make
this adjustment, but if you got your front bow to match the roll bar
perfectly this will then throw it off, so it's not a bad idea to try to
get at least a ballpark before drilling the plexi to the frame.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (instruments/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6captain(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-6a for sale in FL |
There is a new Rv-6a for sale in FL if anyone is interested. It has just been
signed off by the FAA and is loaded with everything you can think of. E-mail
me for more info.. I think he is asking $73.000 and will paint to you color
scheme.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling canopy to frame |
Great Advise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks also for the drilling sequence
wrote:
>
>Gary Zilik wrote:
>
>> I found the canopy installation the easy part. The frame was the hard
part. If
>> the frame is correct the canopy just fits.
>
>I found the canopy easy to cut tho not quite easy to get right :-)
>
>But, Gary is super-right when he says that the frame is the hard part. I
>believe that the plexi should be left hanging up in the study (or
whereever you
>store yours) till the frame is totally done - maybe even painted! The pins
>should slide into the blocks; the latch function; the bows should be
inside the
>fuselage by a 1/16th or so. The plexi goes on when you can say to
yourself, "I
>have a perfect working frame and a full understanding of the remaining
steps".
>
>Being of an impatient nature, I learned this the hard way.
>
>
>Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at SCK - Fitting cowl, controls
>halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
>
>
>
Dan Wiesel
RV6a Slider QB Canopy frame in, Big cut made!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Blake Harral <bharral(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is anyone doing GPS approaches in an experimental? |
Marian Rendall & Scott Sawby wrote:
> I was following this thread on GPS as I was interested in some day setting
> up my 6A for IFR someday, and I was somewhat confused as to just what was
> required in the way of instrumentation. I just called the FSDO to clarify
> a couple of points and the fellow I talked to said there were no
> requirements for experimental aircraft. He said it was basically whatever
> I wanted to put in it, but they recommended I follow the standards for
> certified aircraft just for safety's sake. Is this true?!!!
>
For what it's worth, I received essentially the same answer from the
avionics
guy at the Scottsdale, AZ FSDO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Team Rocket Proto |
Hey there Rocket men!
This is an update to the progress of our prototype aircraft. The build
continues to go on schedule as planned. The wings structure has been completed
and the skins have been applied including the 52 gallon fuel tank. The skins
have been dimpled and are ready for final assy and tank sealing. Ailerons and
flaps have been constructed.
Now for the fun part. The fuselage has been skinned, and all the bulkheads are
a perfect fit!! Our 3" wider firewall is a beautiful design and makes the ship
extremely attractive. We have one piece side skins that eliminate that
unsightly overlap of skins on the forward fuselage. The turtledeck skins have
been formed for a perfect fit and are ready to be applied to the aircraft. Our
new gearlegs have arrived and are being fabricated as we speak. Our new engine
mount is also being fabricated in precision jigs to accept the new gearlegs.
We have posted 2 pictures of our proto build on our website, one of the
fuselage and one of the wings. We will post more as they are available. Please
visit us at: www.matronics.com/rocket
See you at Sun n Fun!!
Scott Brown
Mark Frederick
Team Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: flap survey results (OOPS!) |
Shoot! I meant to change the tabs to spaces before sending, but forgot,
and it looks like it screwed up the table. Here it is again:
----
I just finished compiling the results of the flap survey. Got 16 responses
total. I'm not sure how useful this really is except to show there are
almost as many ways of using flaps as there are RV pilots!
A summary of the results follows, then the numbers, then the comments.
----
About half of the respondents sometimes or always use flaps on takeoff,
the other half rarely or never. Of those who do, 10-20 degrees is the
most common setting.
About 2/3 of the respondents use 10-20 degrees of flaps on downwind, the
other 1/3 zero.
20 degrees or half flaps is the most common setting for base.
Most people, not surprisingly, use full flaps on final but there are a
few rebels who use less.
2/3 of the respondents have electric flaps, the other 1/3 manual. Only
one said he'd do it different next time (has manual, would go with electric).
However two respondents originally had manual and converted to electric.
While people seem to use a variety of different settings, most of them seem
to be able to do it without the help of an indicator. 1/3 of the respondents
have flap indicators. Half of those were electronic, the other half, flap
marks. None of the manual flap guys have indicators, although one said if
he had it to do over he'd have manual flaps and an electonic indicator
(seems odd to me but that's what he said!)
Most people seem to like the set-up they have, whatever it is, and would
do it again the same way.
The numbers:
Use flaps on takeoff:
Never/rarely 7
Seldom 2
Sometimes 5
Always 2
Typical flap settings (converted from various measurement methods -- 1/2 = 1
notch = 20 deg, etc. This kind of goes all over the map, but that's at least
partly due to the different set-ups people have -- the manual flap folks typ-
ically have notches at 0, 20 and 40 only, whereas a few of the electric guys
appear to want to use "just a crack" or stop at 25 instead of 20 or 30.
0 5 10 20 25 30 40
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
Takeoff 7 1 5 3 0 1 0
Downwind 6 0 7 3 0 0 0
Base 1 0 2 9 1 1 2
Final 0 0 0 3 2 11
Flap Type: Have now Next time
Manual 5 4
Electric 11 12
Indicator type: Have now Next time
None 12 12
Electronic 2 2
Flap marks 2 2
Comments:
----
With manual flaps the handle tells you how much flap you are using.
D. Malott
RV6 O320 wood prop
----
The reason I opted for electrical flaps was a 100% satisfaction from those
I surveyed who knew of them. Those who didn't have them wished they did and
all said they would do elec if they were doing it over! They are a must for
the 6 or 6A.
I used to do half flaps for x wind landings but have quit that since the damn
thing floats which is couter productive, and the 6A is an awesome x wind
machine wiht full flaps. 25K no sweat until you have to taxi.
D Walsh 6A , 400 hrs, 540 landings.
----
Since RV-4's are so hard to slow down, I put down about 1/4 at about 100
kts. A lot of people will disagree but I have the flap switch easy to
reach and I raise them in the roll out to lock the plane on the ground,
wether I have done a wheel landing or 3-point.
John Kitz
RV-4
300 hours
----
Additional Comments?
A flap indicator is useless on an RV in my opinion. After just a few
lights, you know just by looking where they should be. Von Alexander
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com (RV-8)
----
NO FLAP HANDLE IN THE WAY OF THE THROTTLE ON
AN UNANTICIPATED GO-AROUND WITH ELECTRIC FLAP SYSTEM. ALSO,
IT ONLY TAKES SIX SECONDS FROM FULL UP TO FULL DOWN.
Marshall M. Dues
----
As I said in a previous post, I have a wonderfull electronic indicator that
works great and looks neat. The only problem is I never look at it. My next
airplane will not have one. Its easiest to simply look out at the flap as
your turning in the pattern.
Ryan Bendure Co.
----
The only time I use full flap, is on steep short field approaches, into
short strips. I have a Jon Johansen seat in my RV4, with a modified flap
handle, which makes getting ride of flap a chore. I do a lot of side slipping
also with half flap, and the RV is very stable and controlled. BTW I fly
Tiger Moths a LOT, and they don't have flaps, so the RV is "heaven" .
Thinking about changing to electric flaps, mainly for passenger comfort>>
"Hey Bubba, it's time to land senario"
Ken Glover Newcastle Australia RV4 VH-MKW 450hrs Tiger Moth VH-JAU
----
Like I said, I added a 10 and 30 degree position on my manual flaps, and
shortened the handle enough to let it lay flat when retracted.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
----
I always use flaps at the last minute to lower ground speed & landing
distance. unless x-wind is up there too much.
Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
----
I don't feel the flap indicator from MAC adds significant weight or panel
space, and like having the indicator right next to the toggle switch.
Outside markings would work just as well in the daytime, and I never fly
at night, although my plane is capable.
I don't yet know how keeping the 10 degrees of flap for shortfield T/O would
affect Vx and Vy, so I usually dump the flap while still accelerating in
ground effect and employ my known no-flaps Vx of 78 mph or Vy of 90 mph IAS.
Need to go back and do more thorough flight testing in this regime. Ditto for
effect of flaps on T/O distance.
Plane drops like a rock with full flaps unless flown at 90 mph on final.
Short field full-flap landings take lots of getting used to unless you are
willing to commit to a power-on approach to guarantee making the field.
Bill BOyd
RV-6A 57 hrs
----
I am a gadget man butttt, no gadgets needed here. Hold down switch after
100 mph to about half flaps(look out the window). Adjust accordingly on
final. Best landings are usually obtained with half flaps. 325 hours with
no problems.
Todd tmrv6(at)erols.com RV-6 N92TM Flying in Southern MD
----
I will add more flaps on base if I see that I am high. My intent has
been to apply the KISS principle to my airplane wherever I could.
Bob Hall, RV-6
Colorado Springs
=======
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (instruments/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sex and the RV |
"Terrence C. Watson" wrote:
>
>
> pbennett(at)zip.com writes:
> >
> >Have you sent your letter/ fax /email to JPI this week?
> >
> >If so, you are supporting Matt. Thanks from all of us who are doing
> >likewise.
> >
> >If not, you are giving support and comfort to JPI, because they are
> >hoping you will get tired and go away. Will you?
>
> Does this mean that since I'm not picketing in front of the White House this
> week, I am giving "support and comfort" to Bill Clinton? I may agree with
> your cause, but I don't like being called a traitor to that cause because I
> don't do what you want me to do when you want me to do it.
>
> Write your letters. Encourage others to do the same. Don't insult those
> who think one timely and well thought letter to JPI is enough, or perhaps
> those that don't agree with the tactic at all.
>
> Terry Watson
>
Lighten up nobody is insulting anybody geez!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Is anyone doing GPS approaches in an |
experimental?
>
>
> I was following this thread on GPS as I was interested in some day setting
> up my 6A for IFR someday, and I was somewhat confused as to just what was
> required in the way of instrumentation. I just called the FSDO to clarify
> a couple of points and the fellow I talked to said there were no
> requirements for experimental aircraft. He said it was basically whatever
> I wanted to put in it, but they recommended I follow the standards for
> certified aircraft just for safety's sake. Is this true?!!!
> Scott Sawby N341SS
I have conducted a fair bit of certification testing of IFR approach
approved GPS installations in certified aircraft in Canada. I have
seen first hand the types of problems that poorly designed or
installed installations can produce.
For what it is worth, I intend to follow the standards of certified
aircraft when I do the IFR approach GPS installation in my RV-8, to
help ensure that I don't have a poorly performing system, or one with
major human factors deficiencies that might bite me on a dark and
stormy night. I also intend to do a proper ground and flight test of
the installation to be sure to pick up any glitches with the
installation.
I recommend that anyone thinking of purchasing an IFR capable GPS do
a careful evaluation of the user interface of the candidate boxes.
There is a huge variation in user interface quality between the
different models. Don't just go with the cheapest one. You might
get what you paid for.
If anyone is interested, I'll post the GPS Working Note that we use
in Transport Canada Aircraft Certification Flight Test. It explains
what we look for when we evaluate a GPS installation, and lists the
ground and flight tests we do, with pass/fail criteria. The document
is not completely stand alone, because it references a couple of FAA
Advisory Circulars, but I'll include links to those, if I can find
them on the web.
If you want me to post this info, please send a private e-mail -
don't just reply to the list.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (fuel tanks & fuselage bulkheads)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Engineering Test Pilot (613) 952-4319 (work)
Transport Canada
Ottawa, Canada http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bramsec <bramsec(at)idirect.com> |
| Subject: | Water in Fuel Lines |
My Government inspector doesn't like the low points in the fuel lines
that go from the tanks to the fuel selector. He feels that water in the
fuel can settle in these low points and thus wants drains
installed.Another option was suggested, run the fuel lines as high as
possible along the spar then to the fuel selector, this would allow
water to flow back to the tanks.
Question, has anyone had a fuel blockage due to water in these lines?
Second question, can water stay still within a fuel line while fuel
flows around it? I would think that all fluids in the lines would flow
equally through the system and on to the gascolator.
My installation (RV6) has the following sequence, fuel tank/ fuel
selector/ gascolator/ electric boost pump/ engine pump. The gascolator
and boost pump are in the wing root between the fuel tank and the
fuselage.
Any information and comments greatfully accepted.
Regards Peter (RV6 Toronto Canada)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel H. Morris" <morristec(at)icdc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Water in Fuel Lines |
--
>
>My Government inspector doesn't like the low points in the fuel lines
>that go from the tanks to the fuel selector. He feels that water in the
>fuel can settle in these low points and thus wants drains
>installed.
I suppose that he would ground every Piper 140/180 out there then as they
have fuel line routing low points in the fuselage with no drains.
Dan Morris
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A versus RV-8A |
I am building a RV6a and this is the plane. If u like to fly slow like a
Cessena(the crapest plane ever!!!!) then build the RV8/a beast!But if u like
performance then build a RV6a.
Justin Wallace & Don Mckelson
RV6a(tail section)
LA, california
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mills, Trevor R" <MillsTR(at)az1.bp.com> |
| Subject: | RV6 Crankshaft Inspection |
Our crankshaft inspection was passed, All OK !!!!
I have been building my 8 now for just over a year without even sitting in
an RV, until now I have based all of my dreams and hopes for my little
aeroplane on Van's figures and what I heard from the list. So when I was
asked to join a small syndicate (4) of pilots from my glider club who wanted
to buy an RV, I just had to say Yes!!!!
After my first 2 hours in VH-YGH the main thing that comes to mind is
WOW!!!!!
The control balance is first class, the whole dam thing is great.
I am just starting to understand how you guys must feel after building your
dream to find,
They realy do fly as good as they look.
With 150HP and fixed pitch I know we are on the lower end of the performace
scale of RV's,
this just makes me dream more about my 8
Again I would like to thank all the people who helped with my crankshaft
worries.
Trevor Mills
80605
Today, I will have to see my Doctor, to have this smile surgically removed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A versus RV-8A |
>
>I am building a RV6a and this is the plane. If u like to fly slow like a
>Cessena(the crapest plane ever!!!!) then build the RV8/a beast!But if u like
>performance then build a RV6a.
>
>Justin Wallace & Don Mckelson
>RV6a(tail section)
>LA, california
>
Don't know where you get the idea that an RV8 is a beast. Care to
elaborate on that thought?
BTW, what is a 'crapest plane'? Don't recall that model.
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
1975 JH-5
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
NRA Life Member
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Sex and the RV |
Al,
I really think it has a lot more impact if JPI see that each person
cares enough to write.
Even if you copy my letter, add a note saying you agree with the
contents, and email it to the tech support address, JPI will get the
message.
It's better of course if you craft your own and fax it in, but in the
end it's the number of their potential customers expressing
dissatisfaction which counts. Just send something!
Peter
> communications. It would be more like a petition that way. If any
> more of you feel the same way then let Peter know that he can add
> your name to his letters too and that way let JPI know in one
> communique there are a lot of us with the same opinion.
> AL Mojzisik
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Is anyone doing GPS approaches in anexperimental? |
Listers,
I just installed a IFR Certified GPS in one of the Aircraft that we own 1979
Cesna 210T. According to the Avionics shop that installed the Apollo GX55 it
is only certified for non precision approaches, after it has been tested by a
certified repair station.
By the time all was said & done the GPS plus installation and interfaced was
over
$6000.00 for non precision approaches. The real kick in the butt is that the
Garmin
195 Hand Held has all the approaches programed in and outlined and does a
great job for $1100.00. However one must be "LEGAL" so after 5 Grand more I
still like the Garmin 195, and besides the updates are alot cheaper.......
My 2 cents worth
BSivori(at)Aol.Com
N929RV ( Reseved )
Wings Closed & Waiting
N15035 Seneca 1
N4792C Cesna 210T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | TARGETS : was RV-6A versus RV-8A |
Justin & Don,
Hurry up and finish your 6A!
We RV-8A (Beast Drivers) need more TARGETS!!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
*************************
>From: RV6aJMW(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6A versus RV-8A
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 23:44:57 EST
>
>
>I am building a RV6a and this is the plane. If u like to fly slow like
a
>Cessena(the crapest plane ever!!!!) then build the RV8/a beast!But if u
like
>performance then build a RV6a.
>
>Justin Wallace & Don Mckelson
>RV6a(tail section)
>LA, california
>
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flap survey results |
Randall,
Thanks for taking the time to research this issue. The info was
valuable.
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A
awaiting QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "CROWELL,JEFF (HP-Boise,ex1)" <jeff_crowell(at)am.exch.hp.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-List Digest: 03/17/99 |
If you backspace out the "mh.html" in that URL, you'll see that the Rocket
webpage has moved to www.matronics.com/rocket.
Jeff
> From: "Jim Stone" <jimandkathy(at)email.msn.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Rocket photo
>
>
> Buster,
> Try http://www.maui.net/~russ/rocket/mh.html
> Jim Stone
> Louisville
> Rocket Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | a new perspective to JPI |
I've kept quiet throughout this JPI mess, but now I
think I'll speak up. If you disagree, that's okay. I'd
still be happy to lend you a hand if I could. With that
introduction, here's my opinion; If JPI feels that they've
got a legal beef, then they should pursue it. I've read the
letter to Matronics, and I've read the original posting on
JPI's web page. I didn't find anything in either one to be
offensive. The letter to Matronics wasn't a threat, it was
for the purpose of putting Matronics on notice that JPI
believed Matronics was infringing upon their trademark. I
think JPI has been professional throughout the entire
thing. I'm saying that this is very routine in the
business world. It may not be right sometimes, but it's
normal. Heck, I'd bet that all of you buy products from
companies every day that have done the exact same thing.
Furthermore, I bet that if Matt worked for JPI, you'd not
raise an eyebrow to what's going on. Now, I like Matt for
what he's done for this list. In fact, I'd be willing to
help him defend this thing in court by contributing to him.
Not because I hate JPI, but simply because I like Matt.
When it comes time to buy electronics, I'm going to buy
what I feel is the best suited product for me. I don't give
a flying rat's a** what some bozo's t-shirt says, or what
some electricial engineer says in his book, or what anyone
else says. Sure, I'll consider your opinions. After all,
refusing to consider the advice of others is a good way to
be ignorant. But, I'll draw my own conclusions. I'm not
jumping on anyone's wagon just because it's popular.
So, the bottom line is that I think, IMHO, that you avid
JPI haters should crawl out of your shell and wake up to the
reality that the only thing strange going on here is that
you just happen to know someone personally involved in one
of these trademark matters. Now, if you feel the need to
flame me, go right ahead. I'll smile as I read it. :-)
Have a happy day.
Adrian Chick
Nashville, TN
rv6a wings two weeks away!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Electric Book |
I agree wholehardedly to this post.
Cecil
>
>How much money have you spent so far on your RV project ?
>Would another $35 be worth while to sink into it ?
>I am referring to a purchase of Electric Bob's book, " Aero Electric
>Connection".
>I do not know Bob and have no connection whatever with him and his
>business
>ventures, but I have saved about a zillion of his posts on matters
>electric.
> Bad enough that I had to climb a steep learning curve here in the
>building of an airplane, but I knew nothing of the wiring and how/what
>to
>do.
>I stole drawings/cobbled sketches of old, dirty, torn Cessna ,
>Glassair,
>Zenith (gawd) drawings and didn't know what a DPDT, DPST, SPDT, or any
>other
>switch was or how it worked.
> Where others had drunk at the fountain of knowledge, I had
>only
>stopped to gargle.
> My I.Q. was so low that when it rose to 50 ,..I sold !
>When my intellect fell to rock bottom, I started to dig !!
>Therefore, I was pretty clued out about the scary electric stuff and
>more.
> Wish you could have seen the jungle behind the panel of my RV,
>...radio problems that peed off all the towers I garbled to as well as
>noise
>and no workee switches.
>I decided to spring $35 for this wonderful book ($55 our money),gasp,
>but
>what a great investment.
>I urge you to consider getting one, I am not telling anybody here
>that I
>have a copy or they would borrow it and I would never see it again.
>But this book tells you all you need to know about doing a superb job
>on
>wiring your bird.
>Noise avoidance, safety, efficiency, great diagrams, antenna stuff,
>grounding, fault avoidance...it is all you would ever want and never
>knew
>how to ask.
> I do believe this is one post that is very RV related and
>worthwhile.
>I do apologize if I sound like a fan club organizer, but Electric Bob
>has
>given out so much free stuff that I think the book would be a great
>gift you
>can give yourself and just keep learning from and enjoying !!!
>
>Buster,
>
>Great White North....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
I'm finishing up a few of the final details on the baffling. One place
where the instructions are a little thin is on safety wiring the underside
baffle flaps that curve around the bottom of the cylinders.
The instructions say to run a double loop of .040 safety wire between them.
Do you just run the wire through the hole and then back to the other side?
Did you install a doubler plate? Do they have to be tight? How did you get
your hands up in there with the baffles installed? Should I twist the wire
together?
I don't know. Maybe I'm trying to make this more difficult than it needs to
be. But I don't want it to wear through or break later. I have to take too
much stuff off of the engine to get up in there. I'd like to do it right
the first time.
Any help out there?
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6
"Ready for Paint"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sylvain Duford" <srduford(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: a new perspective to JPI |
Adrian, I appreciate your point of view, but two wrongs don't make a right.
You are correct that this is business as usual in this "Land of the Free,
and the Lawsuit".
However, it is still not right for larger companies to go after small ones
for allegedly using an everyday word like "scanner" illegally. They are
probably doing it just because they can, and they are hoping to bully the
small guy out of the market.
I for one would still be upset about it, even if I didn't know Matt. The
Internet is leveling the playing field in this game by allowing us to learn
about these dubious practices. I think it is time for the "little people" to
stand-up and speak. Senseless lawsuits cost us billions of dollars every
year.
Sylvain Duford
RV-8 #80047
N130RV
>
> I've kept quiet throughout this JPI mess, but now I
>think I'll speak up. If you disagree, that's okay. I'd
>still be happy to lend you a hand if I could. With that
>introduction, here's my opinion; If JPI feels that they've
>got a legal beef, then they should pursue it. I've read the
>letter to Matronics, and I've read the original posting on
>JPI's web page. I didn't find anything in either one to be
>offensive. The letter to Matronics wasn't a threat, it was
>for the purpose of putting Matronics on notice that JPI
>believed Matronics was infringing upon their trademark. I
>think JPI has been professional throughout the entire
>thing. I'm saying that this is very routine in the
>business world. It may not be right sometimes, but it's
>normal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: a new perspective to JPI |
Adrian Chick wrote:
BIG SNIP
>"I'm saying that this is very routine in the business world. It may not
be right >sometimes, but it's normal."
SNIP
>Now, if you feel the need to flame me, go right ahead. I'll smile as I
read it. :-)
>Have a happy day.
>
>Adrian Chick
>Nashville, TN
>rv6a wings two weeks away!
>
Adrian,
I think what we are doing here is protesting what has become "normal
business practices." You must admit that someone with deep pockets has the
ability to drive a small company out of business with these tactics by
ABUSING the letter of the law. Matt can easily be proven right in this case
but he is still out a bunch of money to prove it. I think we would nearly
all agree (except the lawyers!) that what we need is a change in the law so
that the plaintiff pays all legal costs of the defendant if the plaintiff
loses the suit. This would reduce these frivolous suits.
Until then what we are doing is a reasonable means of defense and hopefully
will become "normal" as a response. With the use of the internet,
hopefully, we will be able to stop such a travisty from occuring in this
case. I hope you are not smiling too broadly at this reply because it is
not meant to be a flame. I believe you are entitled to your own opinions. AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: a new perspective to JPI |
> . . . . I've read the
>letter to Matronics, and I've read the original posting on
>JPI's web page. I didn't find anything in either one to be
>offensive. The letter to Matronics wasn't a threat, it was
>for the purpose of putting Matronics on notice that JPI
>believed Matronics was infringing upon their trademark. I
>think JPI has been professional throughout the entire
>thing.
> So, the bottom line is that I think, IMHO, that you avid
>JPI haters should crawl out of your shell and wake up to the
>reality that the only thing strange going on here is that
>you just happen to know someone personally involved in one
>of these trademark matters. Now, if you feel the need to
>flame me, go right ahead. I'll smile as I read it. :-)
>Have a happy day.
>
>Adrian Chick
>Nashville, TN
>rv6a wings two weeks away!
Adrian,
I agree that the initial salvo from JPI was
non-threatening and quite normal from the way
business is normally conducted . . . in this country at
least. But consider this, once lawyers are retained
and cases filed, then the potential for financial
and mental stress go up by orders of magnitude
irrespective of who's right or wrong. I was
very close to a situation in the form of FAA
persecuation of B&C Specialty Products and I can
testify to the damage caused by an intractable
system that is not much different than our courts.
Agreed that all this fuss has little to do with
the quality or suitablity of JPI's products.
But I'll suggest that trademark issues
have nothing to do with capabilty or quality of
a product and everything to do with customer
relations. I think it's appropriate for customers
to weigh in with their opinions and reactions
to what is really an issue of good citizenship,
not a legal one.
Fly safe my friend . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Fried"<dfried(at)dehavilland.ca> |
| Subject: | Differential wing loading during manoeuvres |
--simple boundary
FAR 23 contains airworthiness standards for light aircraft. Appendix A
covers simplified design load criteria. I have paraphrased some
information on unsymmetrical flight conditions below.
Paragraph A23.9(c)(2)
The wing and related structures must be designed for 100% of
condition "A" loading on one side of the aircraft and 70%
(60% Aerobatic category) on the other.
Condition "A" is the airplane positive manoeuvring limit load
factor (Normal 3.8, Utility 4.4 and Aerobatic 6).
The flight condition that causes this load distribution requires
the total aircraft load factor be less than the limit condition
(3.2 for normal category, 3.7 for utility and 4.8 for acrobatic)
to avoid overstressing the structure.
Paragraph A23.9(c)(3)
The wing and related structures must be designed for the loads
resulting from 75% of condition "A" loading on both sides of the
aircraft and the maximum wing torsion resulting from aileron
displacement.
I presume that the 75% limit on the limit takes account for the
instantaneous variation in vertical loads with application of
ailerons. In any case, the aileron load will be matched by the
roll damping (angle of attack variation due to roll) as soon as
the roll rate becomes steady.
The flight condition that causes this load distribution requires
the total aircraft load factor be less than the limit condition
(2.9 for normal category, 3.3 for utility and 4.5 for acrobatic)
to avoid overstressing the structure.
The point of this discussion is that if you are happily pulling the
aircraft limit load and then bang on full rudder or aileron, BAD
things will happen.
Kevin Horton's example (max allowable load factor of 5.86g in rolling
flight and 7.33g in non-rolling flight or 80%) gives evidence that
military aircraft are designed to similar standards.
Please respect the design weights, load factors and airspeeds when
flying acrobatics. Be aware that application of roll and/or yaw
controls when at the positive manoeuvring limit factor can overstress
the aircraft.
David Fried
--simple boundary
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 05:44:40 -0500 (EST)
From: cfggg <ddebt(at)pathcom.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Differential wing loading during rolls
--simple boundary--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wayne bonesteel <wayneb(at)oakweb.com> |
Randy I just did this on mine but I bought 4 lengths of 10-32 threaded
rod zinc plated cut them to length used 2 jam nuts on one end slid thru
baffle with vinyl tube to protect from chafe on cylinders 2 more jam
nuts to lock in place. could use metal self lock nuts. I did have
backing on the baffle flanges where the rod goes thru.
Wayne RV-4 Instruments.
Randy J. Pflanzer wrote:
>
>
> I'm finishing up a few of the final details on the baffling. One place
> where the instructions are a little thin is on safety wiring the underside
> baffle flaps that curve around the bottom of the cylinders.
>
> The instructions say to run a double loop of .040 safety wire between them.
> Do you just run the wire through the hole and then back to the other side?
> Did you install a doubler plate? Do they have to be tight? How did you get
> your hands up in there with the baffles installed? Should I twist the wire
> together?
>
> I don't know. Maybe I'm trying to make this more difficult than it needs to
> be. But I don't want it to wear through or break later. I have to take too
> much stuff off of the engine to get up in there. I'd like to do it right
> the first time.
>
> Any help out there?
>
> Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6
> "Ready for Paint"
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Baffle Details |
> I'm finishing up a few of the final details on the baffling. One place
> where the instructions are a little thin is on safety wiring the underside
> baffle flaps that curve around the bottom of the cylinders.
Nutplates over the holes will keep them from being chewed out by the
wire.
Some sort of tube (Nylo-seal or something else that can take some heat)
over the wires will help keep them from chafing.
Don't know how tight is tight enough but I would think just so they are
against the cylinders. Twist the ends with safety-wire pliers.
You can use anti-chafe tape where the baffles contact the cylinder
fins to keep them from wearing through.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (instruments/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | RE-Inspection Needed? |
Good News!
Here is the resolution of my earlier posting. First my message to the FAA,
then their reply. Be sure to read the comment at the end of the rather long
posting.
(To Jeffery Graves, FAA FSDO DEN 3/15/99)
Jeff: I am flying an experimental RV-6A - 160 hours, trouble-free, air
worthiness certificate issued mid 1995.
I want to replace the non-impulse magneto in my non-certified Lycoming-like
engine with a Claus Saviur Light Speed engineering, electronic ignition
system,. The impulse-coupled magneto (left) would remain installed and both
systems would operate together at all times.
The weight difference is negligible - a bit lighter perhaps - the question
is" do I need to re-enter a restricted phase only, or do I need another DAR
or FAA inspection, or (hopefujlly) just log the change? Which?
FAA' s Answer:
(3/18/99)
Good Moring John:
In response to your question regarding the change of the magneto on your
RV-6, no reinspection is necessary., All that is required is that you report
the change to the FSDO and that you receive a response to that notification.
We will use this e-mail transmission for that response. What I would like
you to do is to fly the aircraft in the test area outlined in Phase 1 or
your operating limiations for a minimum of 3 hours, with at least 3 take
offs and landings. Once you have completed those flights, make a log book
entry that the flights were conducted and that no adverse operating
charactoristics were demonstrated during those flights. Sign the entry and
continue normal operations in Phase 2. Print this transmission and make it a
part of your aircraft record. The routing back to my e-mail address shall
constitute my signature. If you have any questions, please free to contact
me at 303 342 1142...signed /Jeffrey H. Graves, Principal Maintenance
Inspector. End of quote.
Note. Jeff is one of the really good guys in the FAA, and I say that not
only as a builder of an RV, but as a 29-year employee of the CAA/FAA.
All's well!!!! I'll report my experience with the Lightspeed electronic
ignition when it's running.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Baffle Details |
| From: | n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>I'm finishing up a few of the final details on the baffling. One place
>where the instructions are a little thin is on safety wiring the underside
>baffle flaps that curve around the bottom of the cylinders.
>
>The instructions say to run a double loop of .040 safety wire between them.
>Do you just run the wire through the hole and then back to the other side?
>Did you install a doubler plate? Do they have to be tight? How did you get
>your hands up in there with the baffles installed? Should I twist the wire
>together?
>
The drawing shows doublers on the tabs where the wires attach.
I used the doublers and nothing else special. It wasn't too hard to do
after I moved one oil drain tube clamp a little. It didn't take much
tension to get the baffle snug against the cylinder.
Don't know how it'll hold up.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6Q Inspection scheduled April 22.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Baffle Details |
n5lp wrote:
>
> >
> >I'm finishing up a few of the final details on the baffling. One place
> >where the instructions are a little thin is on safety wiring the underside
> >baffle flaps that curve around the bottom of the cylinders.
> >
> >The instructions say to run a double loop of .040 safety wire between them.
> >Do you just run the wire through the hole and then back to the other side?
> >Did you install a doubler plate? Do they have to be tight? How did you get
> >your hands up in there with the baffles installed? Should I twist the wire
> >together?
> >
>
> The drawing shows doublers on the tabs where the wires attach.
>
> I used the doublers and nothing else special. It wasn't too hard to do
> after I moved one oil drain tube clamp a little. It didn't take much
> tension to get the baffle snug against the cylinder.
>
> Don't know how it'll hold up.
>
> Larry Pardue
> Carlsbad, NM
>
> RV-6Q Inspection scheduled April 22.
Another method is to use a one eighth welding rod or other relatively soft steel
wire (not the hardened stuff used on hinges) to connect these bottom tabs. You
thread the ends and add nuts and stop nuts to tension and hold them in place.
Which ever you do please pay attention to potential chafing against the oil
return lines, which are soft aluminum and won't take much rubbing. I used the
rod method and put a jog/bend in them where they come near the oil tubes.
My first effort used straight wires and plastic tube, which melted. Later the
threaded tube wore a serious dent in an oil tube which needed repair.
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Water in Fuel Lines |
Peter wrote:
> My Government inspector doesn't like the low points in the fuel lines
> that go from the tanks to the fuel selector. He feels that water in the
> fuel can settle in these low points and thus wants drains
> installed.Another option was suggested, run the fuel lines as high as
> possible along the spar then to the fuel selector, this would allow
> water to flow back to the tanks.
>
I thing I will have a few really ugly rivets and an unfilled hole so the
inspector will have something to complain about!
On my RV6a, I am following Van's design since it seems to work and messing with
fuel systems is the by far and away leading cause of accidents. In mine it
looks as tho there will be at least three places where these water pockets can
form - two in the lines from tanks to fuel valve and one between valve and
firewall. I suppose I could insure that the tank to valve lines run steadily
uphill. Maybe a gascolater as Eustace Bowhay has done so that the line from
valve to gascolator is down then back up to pump and firewall.
However, I really wonder if it is a real concern? If the gascolator is at the
bottom of the firewall won't the water collect there? If the water does not
move with the fuel, it must just stay there and so what?
> Second question, can water stay still within a fuel line while fuel
> flows around it?
I have a bunch of trouble picturing my fuel system holding water. I start the
Lycoming FOUR cylinder vibration machine. Seconds later the fuel and water mix
together well. On taxiing and runup, I suppose I will use more gas than all the
lines hold.
With a dummy clear plastic fuel line setup, an experiment could easily be
performed. Who will do it? Peter?
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Baffle Details |
<< >I'm finishing up a few of the final details on the baffling. One place
>where the instructions are a little thin is on safety wiring the underside
>baffle flaps that curve around the bottom of the cylinders.
>
>The instructions say to run a double loop of .040 safety wire between them.
>Do you just run the wire through the hole and then back to the other side?
>Did you install a doubler plate? Do they have to be tight? How did you get
>your hands up in there with the baffles installed? Should I twist the wire
>together?
> >>
Hi All:
I'm pretty sure this is NOT in the archives...
We use a throw-away part to do this job: the stems from all those LP4-3 and
CS4-4 rivets. Bend the end 1/4" over 90 deg. This inserts into a second hole
drilled next to the hole that the wire penetrates. The wire wraps around the
stem which will keep the wire from tearing thru the tab on the bottom of the
baffle --sort of looks like a "T" on the end. Do this on both ends of each
wire.
Similiar to using a nutplate, but cheaper.
We use 032 wire -- it wraps easier. You will need enough tension on the wire
to keep the baffle against the cyl fins.
We don't run the wire from front to back -- we attach the front and rear
tabs/wire to the inter-cyl baffles -- 4 wires per side. This keeps that nasty
chafing wire away from the oil return tubes. Let that wire cut a hole in one
of those babies, and you're in for a big clean-up job.
No problems in 1000hrs on the -4 I built (conical mount O-320), and 340 hrs on
my HR2.
Check six!
Mark
Team Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
Rich and Nancy write that they are considering taking a risk:
> Embarking on such a journey that building a kit is, is not to be
> taken lightly, with reasons. I'm nothing short of passionate about
> aviation having grown up surrounded by pilots, having the dream of
> flying for a living and finally ending up as an avionic engineer,
> working in a preflight environment, thus I'm use to repair and building.
> My fiancee is also an avionic, but works for the technical publications
> department of a large aerospace company, and she also has plenty of shop
> floor experience. So, on the technical side, we're pretty much up to the
> challenge. Money wouldn't be a burden in the long run either. And as for
> time, well, we'll make it! :)
I suspect they are not the kind of people who are used to taking risks. I
observe that they are *considering* getting married rather than actually getting
married. Get it together, you two! Life is short and it can get to be too
comfortable - fun, high paying jobs and no outside obligations etc. Had I been
wealthier, I probably would have bought a new F33A. It is hard to judge people
from an email tho so maybe I'm being unfair.
I confess I did do some risk analysis before I started on Valentine - my RV6a.
I assessed my own virtues and shortcomings. I have plenty of skill building and
repairing things but my sheet metal experience was limited to snipping and
cutting - myself. Riveting didn't sound like fun. I know that I can be quite
persistent but I also have trouble getting sidetracked and not finishing
projects.
I evaluated several kitplanes. I really don't travel that much in my Debonair
so I thought an Avid Magnum would be different and fun. But I settled on Van's
because I saw that selling whatever I had bought and built would be easy. I
knew there were many RV builders who seemed very willing to help me. I observed
that Van was a straight arrow with a design praised by fighter pilots and
astronauts as well as aeronautical engineers. When you come right down to it,
if Van's airplanes meet your mission profile, your decision is made!
Any kitplane project requires discipline. Set up a work schedule in the highly
methodical way that you will! Stick to it. If it sounds like too many hours,
do as I did and start with a quick build kit.
Finally, by taking a chance I discovered a new life! I like the building so
much that I am having trouble finding the urge to fly my Debonair instead. This
should be in the archives as an argument for building an RV or at least as an
argument for doing something and doing it right away. Like getting married, for
example!
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at SCK - Fitting cowl, controls
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Buster" <6430(at)axion.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Electric Book |
>
>In responce to Buster about Electric Bob's book "Aero electric connection"
>Where do you get this book?
>
>Jim Callender
>RV-6
Try Aero Electric Connection
6936 Bainbridge Road
Wichita, Kansas 67226-1008
316-685-8617
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Wandering around the country in my RV-4 |
Just for grins I flew my RV-4 from Sacramento to Minneapolis this week to
attend a conference. I will be departing Minneapolis tomorrow to head back.
You know, winter can be one of the best seasons for long cross country
flights. The airplane flys exceedingly well in the cold air. Going east
you often get a push (I didn't this time -- oh well). I happened to time
my trip out just right and had severe clear weather from Sacramento to
Minneapolis.
I had too much coffee before departing and nature made a radical change in
my flight plan. Instead of stopping in Ogden, UT, for lunch I was forced
to stop in Elko, NV. Somehow I always seem to find myself in Elko when I
go past that part of the world. But, it being the weekend, the restricted
area around the Fallon bombing range was cold so I was able to fly directly
to Elko. It is rather fun to look at the craters around the targets for
the Navy bombing practice.
From Elko I proceeded on toward my second planned stop, Rapid City, SD. I
knew I wasn't likely to make it all the way since I was up against my fuel
duration, my bladder duration, and my butt-not-moving-in-the-seat duration.
At 11,500 I was making 175 kts over the ground with a 7.3 GPH fuel burn so
it looked like at least the airplane could make it even if I couldn't. I
gave up and landed in Casper, WY. The line guys there treated me well, put
the RV-4 in the hangar, recommended a motel, and then called them to come
pick me up. The folks from the motel treated me well and even dropped my
by Wal-Mart to pick up a few things I had forgotten. (No matter how much I
plan, I always manage to forget something like socks or a belt.)
The next morning I pressed on. I decided to bypass Rapid City but couldn't
resist the opportunity to see Mount Rushmore as I have never seen it
before. I wagged (wild a--ed guessed) a waypoint into the GPS and it put
me within a mile of the monument. I did lazy descending circles in order
to get a view from several points of view. It is quite interesting since
clearly it was sculpted from a ground-based viewpoint. The features are
irregular from the air. Some things you can only appreciate from the air.
Again, I might have made it all the way from Casper to Minneapolis in one
hop but, although the plane was willing, once again my flesh was weak. I
stopped in Pierre, SD. They fueled up the plane, tossed me the keys to the
courtesy car, and recommended "Jakes" as the place for lunch. Again, I was
well treated and the lunch was excellent. And if you happen to stop in
Pierre, remember that the inside latch handle on the driver's side door of
the courtesy car doesn't work. You have to open the window and use the
outside handle. :
)
Another 1.6 hours of flying and I made it to Crystal Airport, Minneapolis.
I picked the FBO that had mogas thinking that they probably understood
about costs and why people fly homebuilts. The RV-4 was a real hit and I
spent the hour waiting for the taxi showing and explaining RVs to the
various flying club members.
Well, my conference is almost over. It is back in the air again tomorrow.
Since the prog charts show me that the weather back home (the last 100 nm)
is going to turn crummy before I get there, I will probably dawdle across
country so as to arrive back home late Sunday. That should give the
weather time to break up. This means that I should have a fair bit of time
to kill getting home. Anyone between Minneapolis and Sacramento want
company? I am not particularly worried about flying a straight line
getting home. ;
)
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6 Empennage for sale |
Listers,
I still have the RV-6 Empennage for sale. Electric Trim included. Horz. Spar
completed. $900
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Lyc. vs Chevy V-6 |
One asked:
> > If anyone knows the torque output of a 0-360 please let me know. Thanks
and Gary Corde answered:
> 200HP x 5252 / 2700RPM = 389 lb/ft. torque
Huh?? I suspect he wanted the maximum torque, tho he didn't ask.
There are 200 hp O-360's ?? I thought they were only IO-360's.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Baffle Details |
| From: | "William R. Davis Jr" <rvpilot(at)Juno.com> |
Randy,
Put a pop rivit in the center of the tabs on the rear of the baffles and
punch out the mandrel with a pin punch. Run a length of .040 safety wire
thru the rivit and double it back to the front. The rivit will take all
of the wear. No need to twist it. Do the same thing to the front. Twist
the wire on the outside of the baffle to secure it. Dont forget to slip a
length of 1/4" plastic tubing over the wire so that it doesn't wear on
the drain back oil lines.
Regards, Bill N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Baffle Details |
William R. Davis Jr wrote:
>
>
> Randy,
>
> Put a pop rivit in the center of the tabs on the rear of the baffles and
> punch out the mandrel with a pin punch. Run a length of .040 safety wire
> thru the rivit and double it back to the front. The rivit will take all
> of the wear. No need to twist it. Do the same thing to the front. Twist
> the wire on the outside of the baffle to secure it. Dont forget to slip a
> length of 1/4" plastic tubing over the wire so that it doesn't wear on
> the drain back oil lines.
>
> Regards, Bill N66WD
>
>
Bill
The 1/4" plastic tube I put on my Baffles is slowly melting.
Is this normal?
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee,FL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Paulovich <jonkarl(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | HS-411 pp question |
directions say to use one pre-drilled 411 as a guide-no problem.
QUESTION: what size drill??? the plans last mentined to use the #30 for
flange strips-on prvious direction step- so is it safe to assume that
one uses same drill size?? directions also mentin to use -4 rivets as
guide in the bracket, sooo -4 rivet=#30 drill?? or is it on plans
somewhere and i am over looking?? also should bearing be
primed????(outer alum wheel)??? and last question?? directions say
nothing of drill size for the 411 bractets to horz rear spar re: drill
size??? so help me in where i am missing this info. thanx, bob
paulovich doing the tail in arkansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lopez, Steve" <lopezs(at)pweh.com> |
I am looking at an RV3 that's for sale in my area but I was wondering what it might
be worth (just ball park). It has 1300 hrs, needs a paint job and the wings
haven't been redone. Any Ideas?
Thanks Steve.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8: Aileron Oilcanning |
I clecoed aileron spar, skin and ribs together -- top, bottom and both ends.
Flat on the table, I was about to drill the aileron skins to the skeleton,
but paused to investigate the generous amount of oilcanning between
stiffeners. Isn't it odd that this exists before rivetting? How much is
too much? Did I do this while backrivetting the stiffeners in place? How?
Should I order order another skin and rebuild, or continue and risk having
to rebuild the entire aileron? Advice please.....
Thanks,
-Larry
email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
web: http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
>I am looking at an RV3 that's for sale in my area but I was wondering
>what it might be worth (just ball park). It has 1300 hrs, needs a
>paint job and the wings haven't been redone. Any Ideas?
>Thanks Steve.
>
It is hard to say from so little information.
I will offer the following.
When considering the purchase of any RV you should have someone who is
very familiar with RV's (that particular model if possible) do an
inspection of the entire airplane for you. This is even more imperative
with an RV-3. The reason for this is that RV-3 kits are the least
refined which means that they have always required a lot more work to be
done by the builder. For example, builders had to do all of the drilling
on the wing spars for the rivets and the spar attach bolts.
Asking prices for nice RV-3's currently tend to be in the low 20's.
Hope this is of some help.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8: Aileron Oilcanning |
Hi all,
Just to let you know, I've been corresponding with Larry and there has been
a change in the newer wing kits. The aileron spar is now pre-punched. I
built my first aileron with the A-403 spar and managed to put a twist in it.
I ordered parts for the second attempt and went on to the flaps. I just
sent in an order for the A-403PP spars for my second attempt figuring that
it would improve my chances of getting it right. The interesting question
here is whether the pre-punched spar might contribute to oilcanning.
By the way, according to the article in Sport Aviation, an aileron design
change is being considered to reduce the tendency for separation (stall) at
full aileron deflection.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bowen <larry(at)BowenAero.com>
Date: Thursday, March 18, 1999 8:11 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-8: Aileron Oilcanning
>
>I clecoed aileron spar, skin and ribs together -- top, bottom and both
ends.
>Flat on the table, I was about to drill the aileron skins to the skeleton,
>but paused to investigate the generous amount of oilcanning between
>stiffeners. Isn't it odd that this exists before rivetting? How much is
>too much? Did I do this while backrivetting the stiffeners in place? How?
>Should I order order another skin and rebuild, or continue and risk having
>to rebuild the entire aileron? Advice please.....
>
>Thanks,
>
>-Larry
>email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
>web: http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Baffle Details |
Randy,
I installed #8, drilled head filister screws, drilled heads pointing
towards each other and put a nut on each side of the screw. In between, I
used .032" safety wire, sheathed in plastic tubing. The screws make it easy
to tension the baffles properly and have held up for 460+ hours.
Bob Skinner RV-6 460 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
>The instructions say to run a double loop of .040 safety wire between them.
>Do you just run the wire through the hole and then back to the other side?
>Did you install a doubler plate? Do they have to be tight? How did you get
>your hands up in there with the baffles installed? Should I twist the wire
>together?
>Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lopez, Steve" <lopezs(at)pweh.com> |
This airplane has a 160 horse 0-320 with 1300 hrs, metal prop, radio and is VFR
only.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lopez, Steve [SMTP:lopezs(at)pweh.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 1999 7:52 PM
To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
Subject: RV-List: RV3 Price
I am looking at an RV3 that's for sale in my area but I was wondering what
it might be worth (just ball park). It has 1300 hrs, needs a paint job and
the wings haven't been redone. Any Ideas?
Thanks Steve.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hughes" <jhughes(at)netquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: a new perspective to JPI |
Well said Adrian!
John Hughes, So Cal
RV-6 N164JH Flying this summer!
With a quality JPI product in the panel.
----------
> From: Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: a new perspective to JPI
> Date: Thursday, March 18, 1999 6:21 AM
>
>
> I've kept quiet throughout this JPI mess, but now I
> think I'll speak up. If you disagree, that's okay. I'd
> still be happy to lend you a hand if I could. With that
> introduction, here's my opinion; If JPI feels that they've
> got a legal beef, then they should pursue it. I've read the
> letter to Matronics, and I've read the original posting on
> JPI's web page. I didn't find anything in either one to be
> offensive. The letter to Matronics wasn't a threat, it was
> for the purpose of putting Matronics on notice that JPI
> believed Matronics was infringing upon their trademark. I
> think JPI has been professional throughout the entire
> thing. I'm saying that this is very routine in the
> business world. It may not be right sometimes, but it's
> normal. Heck, I'd bet that all of you buy products from
> companies every day that have done the exact same thing.
> Furthermore, I bet that if Matt worked for JPI, you'd not
> raise an eyebrow to what's going on. Now, I like Matt for
> what he's done for this list. In fact, I'd be willing to
> help him defend this thing in court by contributing to him.
> Not because I hate JPI, but simply because I like Matt.
> When it comes time to buy electronics, I'm going to buy
> what I feel is the best suited product for me. I don't give
> a flying rat's a** what some bozo's t-shirt says, or what
> some electricial engineer says in his book, or what anyone
> else says. Sure, I'll consider your opinions. After all,
> refusing to consider the advice of others is a good way to
> be ignorant. But, I'll draw my own conclusions. I'm not
> jumping on anyone's wagon just because it's popular.
> So, the bottom line is that I think, IMHO, that you avid
> JPI haters should crawl out of your shell and wake up to the
> reality that the only thing strange going on here is that
> you just happen to know someone personally involved in one
> of these trademark matters. Now, if you feel the need to
> flame me, go right ahead. I'll smile as I read it. :-)
> Have a happy day.
>
> Adrian Chick
> Nashville, TN
> rv6a wings two weeks away!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hughes" <jhughes(at)netquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: a new perspective to JPI |
Sylvain,
JPI is just a few miles down the street from me.I have been to
their shop.
It is a very small business not more than 5 people.I don't know why JPI is
being called a large company.They most likely spent alot of capitol for a
VERY small company on protecting the image they have built up with their
line of well thought out products.
John Hughes, So Cal
RV-6 N164JH Flying this summer
with a fine JPI product in the panel.
----------
> From: Sylvain Duford <srduford(at)uswest.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: a new perspective to JPI
> Date: Thursday, March 18, 1999 7:27 AM
>
>
>
>
> However, it is still not right for larger companies to go after small
ones
> for allegedly using an everyday word like "scanner" illegally. They are
> probably doing it just because they can, and they are hoping to bully the
> small guy out of the market.
>
>
>
> Sylvain Duford
> RV-8 #80047
> N130RV
>
>
> >
> > I've kept quiet throughout this JPI mess, but now I
> >think I'll speak up. If you disagree, that's okay. I'd
> >still be happy to lend you a hand if I could. With that
> >introduction, here's my opinion; If JPI feels that they've
> >got a legal beef, then they should pursue it. I've read the
> >letter to Matronics, and I've read the original posting on
> >JPI's web page. I didn't find anything in either one to be
> >offensive. The letter to Matronics wasn't a threat, it was
> >for the purpose of putting Matronics on notice that JPI
> >believed Matronics was infringing upon their trademark. I
> >think JPI has been professional throughout the entire
> >thing. I'm saying that this is very routine in the
> >business world. It may not be right sometimes, but it's
> >normal
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gummos" <tg1965(at)linkline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot relief tube WAS: Wandering around the country in my |
RV-4
As an Officer, but hopely not one of the unfriendly kind, I was carried a
water bottle on OV-10 flights where the length was such that the relief tube
was required. Before using the tube, I would pour a little water into the
tube to ensure it was working properly. If not, the other tube was never
turned on.
BTW, it was hooked up to a small venturi (spelling??) which produced a
vacuum and sucked the liquid out of the tube. I have no idea if a simple
tube to the bottom of the plane would work.
BTW, the F-4 didn't have one and my one 13 hour flight, counting ground
time, got very painful before landing. But that is another story.
Tom Gummo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Cool engine stuff! |
Listers,
Check out this HUGE list of articles on the Lycoming website on all
kinds of engine operation and service topics:
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/index.html
Good stuff!
Brian Denk
RV8 #379
O-360A4M on the way.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8: Aileron PP spar error, was oilcanning |
After a careful look at the preview plans instructions, it seems that the
A-403PP spars require A801-1PP skins and I have 801-PP skins with no holes
drilled along the bottom spar line. I just cancelled my order and will
proceed the old fashioned way. I just didn't want anyone to order A-403PP
spars if they have the older skins.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
-
>
>Just to let you know, I've been corresponding with Larry and there has been
>a change in the newer wing kits. The aileron spar is now pre-punched. I
>built my first aileron with the A-403 spar and managed to put a twist in
it.
>I ordered parts for the second attempt and went on to the flaps. I just
>sent in an order for the A-403PP spars for my second attempt figuring that
>it would improve my chances of getting it right. The interesting question
>here is whether the pre-punched spar might contribute to oilcanning.
>
>By the way, according to the article in Sport Aviation, an aileron design
>change is being considered to reduce the tendency for separation (stall) at
>full aileron deflection.
>
>Steve Johnson
>RV-8 #80121
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Larry Bowen <larry(at)BowenAero.com>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Thursday, March 18, 1999 8:11 PM
>Subject: RV-List: RV-8: Aileron Oilcanning
March 12, 1999 - March 18, 1999
RV-Archive.digest.vol-go