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RV-Archive.digest.vol-gr
April 01, 1999 - April 08, 1999

rudder during cruise flight. Don't know whether this is just a coincidence or what. Another opinion; this is definitely a more difficult airplane to land smoothly than my RV-4 was. The higher stance of the nose, the more sensitive rudder, and the stiffer gear probably has something to do with it, as well as my inexperience. I am slowly getting used to it though, and that is just my '10 hour' observation, ask me again in another 40 hours what I think! It appears that this airplane begs to be wheel landed every time and not 3-pointed. I had only 3-pointed the RV-4, so will have to practice, practice. Stay tuned......... Von Alexander N41VA(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 1999
From: Greg Puckett <puckett(at)ualfltctr.com>
Subject: Cherry Q rivets on RV-8 Tank Baffle
I was getting ready to finish my RV-8 tanks last weekend and when I was arranging all the tools and parts I needed I noticed that the rivets in my bag of AD-41H and my bag of AD-42H's are exactly the same. They look way to short to go through the Z-angle portion so I'm guessing I have all AD-41H's. I called Van's and they are going to send me some 42H's but I wanted these $%%#$ tanks done so I also had ASC fed-ex me some BSPQ-42's (pg. 100-101 in 98-99 cat)that they say are the same as USM AD42H's. They look completely different than the Van's supplied ones as they are not Soldered on the ends. Has anyone used the Cherry Q rivets (BSPQ-42's) for anything that needs to be sealed? Do you think they will seal as well as the USM rivets? Thanks Greg Puckett (Inventorying fuselage) Elizabeth, CO rv8er(at)concentric.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 1999
From: Don D Gates <dgates(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: New AD for ALL RV'S!
I'm hearing of a new AD coming out of Van's that applies to all RV's that have ever been built as well as those under construction. It appears that all rivits must be replaced. Due to excessive performance, Van has decided that flush rivits produce too little drag, thereby threatening the pilot community with "too much fun". There are two complience methods offered: 1. All external skin rivits must be replaced with CherryMax non-flush head rivits of equivilant diameter to those replaced -- a detailed replacement schedule will be forthcoming. 2. Placarding the MP or RPM instrument so that max power is limited to no more than 125 HP, calculated in accordance with the arcane formula published on the "RV-List". "These procedures will help eliminate these pesky trips to the bank I have to keep making from the brisk sales of kits" Van was quoted to say. "People were building the planes and having so much fun they were building second and third planes. I was threatened with liability suits for grin removal therapy. This AD should effectivly put a stop to this!" Happy April Fools! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 01, 1999
Subject: RV-8;Observations/Landing
I too gave-up doing 3-pointers in my RV-6 do to the limited forward visibility. After talking with one of the local RV experts at my airport, I have found that the best way to wheel land is to touchdown nose high (as if doing a "tail-high" 3-pointer) and move the stick forward which kills most of the remaining lift. I found that when I tried to land in a level attitude the stiff gear would bounce the aircraft. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ << It appears that this airplane begs to be wheel landed every time and not 3-pointed. I had only 3-pointed the RV-4, so will have to practice, practice >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Light Speed Engineering Electronic Ignition
Date: Apr 01, 1999
Kerrjb(at)aol.com writes: > > I don't think the air or airplane know or care what the ignition system is. At > a given RPM with a fixed airplane and prop, you will get the exact performance > IMHO. If by performance you mean speed, yes. If by performance you mean fuel consumption, no. Improved ignition can result in more complete and efficient combustion, which can result in producing the same power at lower fuel flow. With a fixed-pitch prop, this would be indicated by lower manifold pressure at the same RPM and airspeed (though the difference will likely be very small). With a constant speed prop, it would be indicated by higher speed at the same RPM and manifold pressure. Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC (-6 tail) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 1999
From: Norman Stingent Polevaulter <reah_right(at)europa.com>
Subject: JPI Instruments Sues JPI
AP April 1, 1999 JPI Instruments announced today that they have filed a trademark infringement lawsuit against JPI (Jumbo Penis Inserts Ltd.), a San Francisco based company which markets a product called PENISCAN(TM), a semen totalizer, exhaust gas analyzer, and CHT probe. JPI says that it could cause confusion with their product IQSCAN which is an aviation industry board of directors IQ totalizer. Unfortunatly JPI has never been able to fully test their product as they do not have enough combined IQ to even move the needle off of zero. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mikel(at)dimensional.com
Date: Apr 01, 1999
Subject: Re: Remote fuel selector
>I for one will always put my grubby paws on the fuel selector directly and >feel it into the proper on left or right position so as not to allow this >possible problem. Suzie Q (a -4) has a fuel selector valve down front per plans. I canted it so the handle is pointing in the direction of the tank I am using. I built up a little platform with a solid stop for the right tank, and a spring-loaded one for the left tank. This spring-loaded stop has to be pushed down to get the handle to OFF. This way, I have the detents and the stops to assure the valve is were it is supposed to be. I understand the desire to keep fuel lines out of the cabin, but I am not sure the concerns are valid. If it is to prevent a possible fuel leak in the cabin, those will probably start out small and be very noticable and will reslult in a precautionary landing to fix the problem. Since they are on the floor area the fuel will not be dripping on crew. If the concern is rupturing a fuel line in an 'uncheduled landing', if you land hard enough you are tearing up interior fuel lines, you will also be having many other problems. As we know, too many unscheduled landings in experimental aircraft are from problems with the fuel system. The system as designed by Van is well tested and works well in many different now flying aircraft. The temtation to change a good thing should be carefully considered. Just some thoughts..... Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q Expanding the relationship....... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 1999
From: Greg Puckett <puckett(at)ualfltctr.com>
Subject: RV-8 Fuselage Jig in CO needed
Does anyone around Colorado have a fuselage jig that they will be done with in the next month or so???? Greg Puckett Flight Simulator Staff Specialist United Airlines Flight Center, 7401 East Martin Luther King Blvd. Denver, CO 80207 USA PH (303)780-5916 FAX (303) 780-5861 puckett(at)ualfltctr.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Molinos Cabodi Hnos SA - JMFC" <cabodijmfc(at)datasys.com.ar>
Subject: Aligning horizontal stabilizer
Date: Apr 01, 1999
I just finished the forward spar of my RV-8 empennage. Now, I am preparing the jig to assembly the skeleton of the horizontal stabilizer, but it is made from wood, so it has some little deviations from the ideal. Are there safe margins in measurements when you aligning the HS or you have to do this perfect? PABLO RV-8 Argentina ________________________________________________________________________________
From: n41va(at)Juno.com
Date: Apr 01, 1999
Subject: Re: RV-8;Observations/Landing
Gary; That sounds like it would work great, I will try it! Von Alexander N41VA(at)juno.com > >I too gave-up doing 3-pointers in my RV-6 do to the limited forward >visibility. After talking with one of the local RV experts at my >airport, I >have found that the best way to wheel land is to touchdown nose high >(as if >doing a "tail-high" 3-pointer) and move the stick forward which kills >most of >the remaining lift. I found that when I tried to land in a level >attitude the >stiff gear would bounce the aircraft. > >Gary Corde >RV-6 N211GC - NJ > ><< It appears that this airplane > begs to be wheel landed every time and not 3-pointed. I had only > 3-pointed the RV-4, so will have to practice, practice >> > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 1999
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: Aligning horizontal stabilizer
Pablo wrote: > I just finished the forward spar of my RV-8 empennage. Now, I am preparing > the jig to assembly the skeleton of the horizontal stabilizer, but it is > made from wood, so it has some little deviations from the ideal. Are there > safe margins in measurements when you aligning the HS or you have to do this > perfect? I suppose it must be perfect since there are no tolerances on anything in the kit. But, perfect is hard to come by. As one approaches perfection in these tolerances - in quality control - the costs rise exponentially. Practically, I would guess that if you can measure the error with the tool you usually do the measurement with, the error is too much. So, if you measure the distance between rivets with a six inch steel rule where you can see a 32nd or even less, that is the allowable +- amount. With a caliper you could measure error you would not know about with the rule but that doesn't mean you need to use the caliper on everything. You would think that a 1% total tolerance ( +- 1/2%) would be adequate. That is only +- 0.010 inches when measuring between rivets at 2 inch spacing which seems to me quite adequate, even excessive. The 1/32 inches mentioned above is 3%. However, 1% means you could be off a whole inch in 100 inches, which is a lot. If you measure the 100 inch dimension with a tape measure you could "see" 1/4 inch error pretty easily if you are careful to avoid sag and stretch. Why doesn't some of us take a few minutes and establish some tolerances for our little gems? This needn't cover everything but a start is a start. Something like: MEASUREMENT TOLERANCE inches ================================================ fuselage 3/32 rivets +- 1/8 fuselage floor rivets +- 1/4 most drilled holes + .005 -.000 3/8 main spar holes + .001 -.000 wing sweep +0 - 1/2 Note: no forward sweep allowed! rivet heads per standard handbook fiberglass fairings no standards etc. You would be amazed how many real factories don't have good tolerance specifications so that they are really unable to control quality except by frequent meetings, threatening workers, exceeding the real needs etc. With software it is no problem as we do not have quality. :-) Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at SCK - Fitting cowl, controls halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doyon, Richard" <Richard.Doyon(at)PSS.Boeing.com>
Subject: Don't shoot me: primer/paint question!
Date: Apr 01, 1999
Hi! Just spoke with a paint manufacturer rep, and he had some disturbing news concerning my priming plan for my RV... so I first hit the archive (ghee... talk about a beating a dead horse: 1800+ returns!) but I didn't find the answer to my question. Due to my set up (I only have a small compressor (2 HP, 6 Gal, 3.4CFM @ 50PSI, 115V/11A) big enough for riveting - I live in an apartment complex where I have a one car garage only, so the electrical outlet is quite low in power), I wanted to use spray cans of Zinc Chromate (Zinc Oxide nowadays) for the interiors parts, and get the larger surface like the skins done at a friend's place 'cause he has the right set up for two part epoxy primer. The rep strongly urged me NOT to used it on the exterior parts since he said that most of today's paint won't stick to it, but that for inside work, Zc-Cr will be quite sufficient. He'd rather see me use the 2 parts epoxy primer on the exterior. He also said that before applying the epoxy primer, an acid etch will have to be done on the exterior, and that if by any means some of it found its way inside (and I guess it will!) it will 'eat' up the Zinc Chromate on the interior parts, thus defeating its purpose of being there in the first place. What's your take on that? By the way, I won't prime the whole thing obviously, but still, like on the wing tips, canopy frame, some rivet lines and such, I'll need to apply some I guess. The reason why I want to use the Zc-Cr on the inside, it's because it does not require a spray gun since it's available in aerosol cans, and, it only requires a light scuffing and cleaning (that's what the guy said, even if Zc-Cr is not self etching, a light scuffing + good cleaner like solvent will do just fine: it's not exposed to 200MPH airflow and rain and such), instead of the acid etch/alodine/cleaning and then mixing the two parts + cleaning the tools after. That's a biggie for me. I don't want too much to do with chemicals such as acid and then alodine process (plus, there's the time to do all that + added weight issues). I've got a pretty nice homemade paint booth that'll handle nicely the fumes from a spray can. But, I don't have running water in my "shop", and there's no way I'll do that inside my place nor will I transfer bucket loads of water. But, I might have to do it nonetheless in light of what the rep told me. If it's true that most paint won't hold to it, I! might have to change my priming plans. Has any one of you folks even ran into that problem? I know there's a lot of builders that use the Zc-Cr spray cans if I'm to believe the archive, so this must have happen to somebody before. BTW, I'll either use the Tempo or Randolph cans. Thanks, Rich 'shop' almost completed, -6A tail will be ordered 'soon' 98208 ***My comments/questions do not represent my employers in any ways*** ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 1999
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Aligning horizontal stabilizer
> > >I just finished the forward spar of my RV-8 empennage. Now, I am preparing >the jig to assembly the skeleton of the horizontal stabilizer, but it is >made from wood, so it has some little deviations from the ideal. Are there >safe margins in measurements when you aligning the HS or you have to do this >perfect? >PABLO >RV-8 >Argentina > Hi Pablo, The jig itself does not have to be perfectly straight, as it only holds the parts. You must ensure the parts are properly aligned by other means (plumb bobs, etc) and adjust the fit in the jig with shims, etc to get the parts aligned. You want to get things aligned as well as possible for two reasons: the remaining parts will fit poorly if you don't get things aligned now, and the aircraft will fly better if it is built straight. Small errors in the alignment of the HS will probably not produce noticeable changes in the aircraft's handling qualities, but the drag will be increased a bit. So, do it as accurately as you reasonably can, and then don't worry about it further, other than to check periodically that things are still in alignment. Wooden jigs can warp with time, and parts could move in the clamps. Have fun riveting the HS together. It really feels good when you finally have the first thing that looks like an aircraft part :-) Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks & fuselage bulkheads) khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home) Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work) http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVHI(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 01, 1999
Subject: Re: Don't shoot me: primer/paint question!
You may want to check into using "Mar-Hyde" self etching primer. It's light grey, comes in 19oz. spray cans & dries very fast. I just lightly scuff the alum. surface with the grey scotch brite pads before spraying. Both the Mar-hyde & grey scotch pads can be purchased at many automotive paint suppliers. This product is good for steel, aluminum, & stainless steel. L.Adamson RV6A fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "V. E. Welch" <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
Subject: Oxygen
Date: Apr 01, 1999
Reading many of the posts lately, it has become apparent that a great many of you fly high. What type of oxygen setups are you using? How and where do you mount the bottle? Do you use canulas or are there other options? Are your systems permanently plumbed in with valves for pilot and passenger or do you just run exposed air hose? Vince RV-8A Saving for wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brad Bundy" <bundyb(at)infowest.com>
Subject: Re: Lycoming O-360-A1A (0 TT) for sale
Date: Apr 01, 1999
Hal, From the comments you may start to find that you may be talking to a crowd of airplane engine users only! And they may sound that way with good reason. You see, auto engine conversions are only for the true experimenter. They require a very high level of commitment of time, energy, talent, testing and refining,safety consideration, often much more money than ever could imagine! As for me I always am looking for the right alternative engine and thinking what can be done. I would be interested in hearing how you come out, purchase price of the engine ect. As you probably know, with the added weight of gear reduction drive, coolant and radiator plus other accessories you'll be adding more weight. Also, you can move the engine as for forward as possible even to modifying the cowling. The goal is "The Lighter The Better" Brad Bundy Flying Chard Built RV6 N48AC You wrote >The new mini-Corvette is supposed to have an all aluminum V-8 just as the full >sized one does but it should weigh about 220 pounds and put out one hp per >pound at 4400 rpm! >So, I am selling my new Lycoming O-360-A1A and getting one of these. >Since it is actually too light, I will have to add some weight up front. Any >suggestions as to how to do that appreciated. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 1999
From: Boris <smbr(at)digital.net>
Subject: Re: Don't shoot me: primer/paint question!
Richard, You can't believe everything you hear, not even from us! The epoxy eating the zinc-chromate is new to me and doesn't make a lot of sense. I live in a harsh enviroment (for aluminum, that is) and, after trying a lot of stuff including 2-part epoxy, have been using the Sherwin Williams 980 self etching 2-part zinc-chromate primer. you can top-coat with most paints and it has good scratch resistance during building. It also comes in spray cans!! Call a sherwin williams auto paint store. The 980 primer has been discussed in the archives. Has any one of you folks even ran into that problem? I know there's a lot of builders that use the Zc-Cr spray cans if I'm to believe the archive, so this must have happen to somebody before. BTW, I'll either use the Tempo or Randolph cans. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 1999
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Oxygen
> >Reading many of the posts lately, it has become apparent that a great many >of you fly high. What type of oxygen setups are you using? How and where >do you mount the bottle? Do you use canulas or are there other options? >Are your systems permanently plumbed in with valves for pilot and passenger >or do you just run exposed air hose? I use a small system from Mountain High. I use nasal cannulas with adjustable continuous flow since my flying is below 18,000'. I have a portable system since I use three different airplanes that fly high enough to make O2 use necessary. On my last trip in the RV-4 I just strapped it into the back seat since I didn't have a passenger with me. I haven't decided how to mount it in the case where I might have a passenger but I am leaning toward strapping it to the back of the pilot's seat. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Lycoming O-360-A1A (0 TT) for sale
Date: Apr 02, 1999
> >Hal, > From the comments you may start to find that you may be talking to a >crowd of airplane engine users only! And they may sound that way with good >reason. You see, auto engine conversions are only for the true >experimenter. They require a very high level of commitment of time, energy, >talent, testing and refining,safety consideration, often much more money >than ever could imagine! > As for me I always am looking for the right alternative engine and >thinking what can be done. I would be interested in hearing how you come >out, purchase price of the engine ect. > As you probably know, with the added weight of gear reduction drive, >coolant and radiator plus other accessories you'll be adding more weight. >Also, you can move the engine as for forward as possible even to modifying >the cowling. The goal is "The Lighter The Better" >Brad Bundy Flying Chard Built RV6 N48AC > >You wrote >>The new mini-Corvette is supposed to have an all aluminum V-8 just as the >full >sized one does but it should weigh about 220 pounds and put out one hp >per >pound at 4400 rpm! >>So, I am selling my new Lycoming O-360-A1A and getting one of these. >>Since it is actually too light, I will have to add some weight up front. >Any >>suggestions as to how to do that appreciated. > > Hal, You caught one. John Ammeter Seattle WA USA 1975 Jensen Healey RV-6 (sold 4/98) EAA Technical Counselor NRA Life Member ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject: Re: Aligning horizontal stabilizer
Date: Apr 01, 1999
Dear Pablo, Take the extra time that it takes to make your jig perfectly straight and also perfectly plumb vertically. The airplane will fly if the stabilizer is not straight etc, however it will fly much better if the stabilizer is perfect, or as near perfect as possible. Also you will find later when you are assembling the airplane that if these parts are crooked, twisted etc. you will have difficulty assembling. I installed a plumb bob from a line above the jig that allowed me to check the allignment of the stabilizer through the various phases of construction. The plumb bob is suspended from a taut line above and parallel to the center line of the stabilizer when it is installed on the jig. This way the plumb bob can be slid back and forth from one side to the other to check the alignment of the stabilizer throughout construction. Good luck. se veja bien. Dick Martin RV8 almost ready to fly ---------- > From: Molinos Cabodi Hnos SA - JMFC <cabodijmfc(at)datasys.com.ar> > To: RV-List Digest Server > Subject: RV-List: Aligning horizontal stabilizer > Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 1:15 PM > > > I just finished the forward spar of my RV-8 empennage. Now, I am preparing > the jig to assembly the skeleton of the horizontal stabilizer, but it is > made from wood, so it has some little deviations from the ideal. Are there > safe margins in measurements when you aligning the HS or you have to do this > perfect? > PABLO > RV-8 > Argentina > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: No direct RV Content
Date: Apr 02, 1999
This may not be a realistic idea but maybe, just maybe, it might make a difference. Sorry for 'spamming' the List with this request I felt it important to pass on. >Subject: Not a joke but something to think about. > > Let's hear it for a GAS OUT. > > > I didn't write this, but am passing it on..... > > THE GREAT "GAS OUT" > It's time we did something about the price > of gasoline in America! We are all sick and > tired of high prices when there are literally > millions of gallons in storage. > Know what I found out? If there was just > ONE day when no one purchased any > gasoline, prices would drop drastically. > The so-called oil cartel has decided to > slow production by some 2 million barrels > per day to drive up the price. I have decided > to see how many Americans we can get > to NOT BUY ANY GASOLINE on one > particular day! > Let's have a GAS OUT! Do not buy any > gasoline on APRIL 30, 1999!!!!! > Buy on Thursday before, or Saturday after. > Do not buy any gasoline on FRIDAY, > APRIL 30, 1999. > Wanna help? Send this message to > everyone you know. Ask them to do the same. > All we need is a few million to participate in > order to make a difference. > > WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE! John Ammeter Seattle WA USA 1975 Jensen Healey RV-6 (sold 4/98) EAA Technical Counselor NRA Life Member ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com>
Subject: My Website Has Moved!
Date: Apr 01, 1999
Listers: I have a new provider, so my website has moved..you can access it at: http://members.home.net/rv8er Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://members.home.net/rv8er Setting up new shop for Finish Kit! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 1999
From: Jon Elford <jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM>
Subject: LSE Plasma CDI System
Does anyone out there in cyber-land have any experience with Klaus Savier's newest Plasma CDI system? I was just browsing their web-site and was quite impressed with the specs and design of the system. As someone who spends 9 hours a day working with the cutting edge automotive systems on today's newest cars, I was glad to see such an advanced system addressing this sadly-lacking area of aviation - the ignition system. Any thoughts or experiences? I'm quite a ways away from engine work on my plane at this point, but I just really liked what I saw. Jon Elford RV6 #25201 Ailerons/Flaps....Preparing for fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 02, 1999
Subject: Re: Oxygen
In a message dated 4/1/99 3:58:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, vwelch(at)knownet.net writes: << What type of oxygen setups are you using? How and where do you mount the bottle? Do you use cannulas or are there other options? Are your systems permanently plumbed in with valves for pilot and passenger or do you just run exposed air hose? >> We've got the 13 ft Aerox system hard mounted to the rear upright of the 6A electric flap center pedestal. The regulator sticks up thru a hole in the baggage cover and, when we need it, we just break out the exposed hose and the cannel and plug them in. It takes about a minute to get the whole enchilada setup and donned. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 1999
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: My Website Has Moved!
Paul Besing wrote: > > > Listers: I have a new provider, so my website has moved..you can access it > at: > > http://members.home.net/rv8er > > Paul Besing > RV-6A (197AB) Arizona > http://members.home.net/rv8er > Setting up new shop for Finish Kit! > > Paul Nicely done page. I really can't contribute a whole lot to building technique anymore because the kit has changed so much since I started my RV-6 in 1987. But to help give a little inspiration to you guys not flying I have put a few pictures of my RV on a web page with little history and some pictures of some of the other airplanes I have had the pleasure of building and flying. Web publishing is something I am slowly learning so please be kind with any comments:) http://www.teleport.com/~jsflyrv/ Jerry Springer|RV-6 first flight 1989|Hillsboro,Or|jsflyrv(at)teleport.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 1999
From: "Patrick E. Kelley" <patk(at)megsinet.com>
Subject: Re: Oxygen
If you've been reading the recent posts about helium and such, you'd realize that most of them use no oxygen at all. :-) PatK - RV-6A "V. E. Welch" wrote: > Reading many of the posts lately, it has become apparent that a great many > of you fly high. What type of oxygen setups are you using? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 1999
From: Tom Barnes <skytop(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Compression tester
A while back I got the urge to build a compression tester and went out to Home Depot and purchsed lots of goodies. Later, having talked with a friend, I found there may be something more to it than just valves, guages and hoses. Maybe an orfice in the picture? Could someone explain how to put a compression tester together? Thanks, Tom Barnes -6 canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: n41va(at)Juno.com
Date: Apr 02, 1999
Subject: RV-8; Observations
I had said that I would post what I learned from Jerry VanGrunsven about squeezing the ailerons to correct a wing heavy tendency. First, make sure your fuel load is somewhat balanced on both sides, and any aileron trim is centered. It would seem(to me) that you would need a person or weight in the right seat, if flying an RV-6 or 6-A. Fly and take note of which wing is heavy. On the ground, take a 12" ruler and lay it on top of the LIGHT wings aileron, going from the skin seam on top of the aileron to the trailing edge of the aileron. This should be straight. Jerry says most people tend to UNDERBEND the last 3/4" or so, (past the ribs). If the ruler shows even a 1/32nd gap at the trailing edge, this side should be gently sqeezed either by fingers or with seaming pliers lined with duct tape. Check BOTH sides first before you do anything so you can see where you are at. IMPORTANT! Squeeze only very lightly! You will only be able to tell if it has closed up any by using the ruler again. If you oversqeeze, you run the risk of cracking the paint, or worse yet, the skin itself by exceeding the acceptable bend radius. Once you get it straight, go fly. If it is still a problem, and you have the light wing aileron straight (top and bottom), then move to the other side (the heavy wing). Chances are it may be OVERSQEEZED. Use the ruler again to find out. If it is, you have a challenge. You will need to take a small 12" long 2x2 or 2x4 and using a light weight hammer(yes, a hammer), gently tap along the length of the trailing edge, checking constantly with the ruler again. Do a little, go fly, do a little go fly. If you have a problem after all this, you will probably need to resort to a permanent trim tab on the bottom of the light wing aileron. The main thing is; DONT OVERDO IT! A MICRO-AMOUNT OF BEND GOES A LOOOONG WAY! Hopefully this is understandable for you, and will help some of you. If you know someone who has done this before, by all means have them do it for you (like I did). And for those of you building the ailerons, you can see that it is better to slightly undersqeeze than to oversqeeze, although perfectly straight is preferred! Von Alexander N41VA(at)juno.com RV-8 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: n41va(at)Juno.com
Date: Apr 02, 1999
Subject: RV-8;
Von Alexander N41VA(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: n41va(at)Juno.com
Date: Apr 02, 1999
Subject: RV-8;Observations
Forgot to mention again that Jerry VanGrunsven is not connected with Vans Aircraft and the advice on aileron sqeezing is only what I have learned from Jerry and others. Use at your own risk. Von Alexander N41VA(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Compression tester
Date: Apr 02, 1999
It is all set up in AC 43-13-1b with diagrams Cy Galley - Editor BC Contact! Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com -----Original Message----- From: Tom Barnes <skytop(at)megsinet.net> Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 9:45 AM Subject: RV-List: Compression tester > >A while back I got the urge to build a compression tester and went out to >Home Depot and purchsed lots of goodies. Later, having talked with a >friend, I found there may be something more to it than just valves, guages >and hoses. Maybe an orfice in the picture? >Could someone explain how to put a compression tester together? > >Thanks, Tom Barnes -6 canopy > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl White" <whiteca(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: H.R. 111
Date: Apr 02, 1999
Just been a "lurker" on the list, but something has come up that concerns me, and I thought I would share. AOPA Pilot has an editorial on page 4 of the April '99 issue concerning H.R. 111 about "user fees" for general aviation.(translation - more taxes for the little guys) Suggest that you read the article and contact your Senators and House members supporting this effort if you feel moved. For help, try "Contacting the Congress" at http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ While on the soapbox, how would like for your private ticket to cost an additional $150 every year or two? Read the thread on page 24 about the "photo I.D." type pilot ticket. My old raggedy cardboard one issued in 1957 looks just fine to me. Tailwinds Carl (IO360 and RV8 plans owner) > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 1999
From: Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Re: the price of gas
> >Adjusted for inflation, gas is at an all time low. Not in AZ - $ 1.55/gl for Prem ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 1999
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: LSE Plasma CDI System
Well, sort of. Lycoming rep told me that *ANY* alteration of the ignition system on a new engine would probably void the warrantly for many kinds of upper end problems! You can understand their position but it does help maintain the ancient farm tractor system now in place. (Sorry, *EARLY* farm tractors) hal > Does anyone out there in cyber-land have any experience with Klaus > Savier's newest Plasma CDI system? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: A20driver(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 02, 1999
Subject: Sky-tec vs B & C starters
Has anyone directly compared Sky-tec vs B & C starters??? Jim Brown, Matawan,NJ RV-3, O-320 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 1999
From: "Charles P. Kuss" <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net>
Subject: Re: Don't shoot me: primer/paint question!
Richard, I submit that you can spray epoxy primer in your garage. I do. Make sure you get a decent paint mask. On the recommendation of many listers, I purchased one of the $69.95 HVLP spray guns from Harbor Freight. I love it! It's easy to use, wastes less paint, & most importantly for you, uses less air. You definitely will remove a considerable amount of the Zinc Chromate primer when you prep your exterior. Why do double work? (priming inside & outside separately) It's easier to prime inside and out at one time. More important, the epoxy primers supply the best corrosion protection (and scratch protection as well) . The AlumiPrep and Alodining takes minimal time if done with a little forethought. Dipping tanks can range from plastic ice chests to a child's wading pool. I'd be happy to email anyone interested, photos of how I've accomplished Alodining various pieces of my empennage & wings. I'd be happy to explain in detail if you wish to call. Charlie Kuss RV-8 fuel tanks Boca Raton, Fl. (561)338-9373 snipped > Due to my set up (I only have a small compressor (2 HP, 6 Gal, 3.4CFM @ 50PSI, 115V/11A) big enough for riveting - I live in an apartment complex where I have a one car garage only, so the electrical outlet is quite low in power), I wanted to use spray cans of Zinc Chromate (Zinc Oxide nowadays) for the interiors parts, and get the larger surface like the skins done at a friend's place 'cause he has the right set up for two part epoxy primer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 1999
From: "Scott Kuebler" <skuebler(at)CANNONdesign.com>
Subject: RV-6a Side Steps
As I flip to the month of April on my AOPA Air Safety calender I sit and admire the great photography. Looking over the nice silhouette of the twin engine my eye immediately goes to the big ugly step hanging off of the side of the plane. This reminds me of a question I thought up a while ago, but never got around to asking: Is there a way to make the optional side steps on the -6a removable? I was thinking of a simple slip-in pipe fitting with a quarter turn to lock them in place. When the step is removed for flight a plastic snap-in cap could be placed over the hole. I don't have drawings that show how they are mounted, so I don't know how the structure is set up for them. I do know I will definitely have to put these steps on my RV do to the size of my wife (4'-10"). Has anybody else thought of this and tried or rejected the idea? Thanks in advance, Scott Kuebler Buffalo, NY RV-6a (wings) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 1999
From: Greg Puckett <rv8er(at)concentric.net>
Subject: oops, RV-8 tanks sender
Well, I knew I would forget something. I riveted my rear baffle on my non inverted left tank yesterday and forgot to bend and set-up my SW sender 1st. It would have been much easier to make sure I got the bends right with the baffle removed. How has the 3" x 3" 90deg bend as depicted in the plans worked out for everyone else using the PP tank cover plate? Also, come to think of it. What bend arrangement has everyone been using on their inverted tanks? I believe I ordered a left and right SW sender from vans? With the sender mounted in the center of the second bay has anyone else used the "right" SW sender on their inv. tank? Greg Puckett Elizabeth, CO RV-8 80081 rv8er(at)concentric.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 1999
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: the price of gas
> >Adjusted for inflation, gas is at an all time low. Well, I beg to differ with you, at least in CA. In the past three weeks my price for regular (87 octane) auto fuel has jumped from $0.98 to $1.60 and I know the that wholesalers have bumped the price yet again since my regular distributor has informed me that, with his last batch, the price to me jumped to $1.80. My price for 80/87 avgas on the field is $1.83. The reason that this is germane to aviation is that I put a 100 gal tank and pump in my pickup truck so that I could fuel my aircraft that have mogas STCs. Needless to say, at these prices it is going to take me one heck of a long time to finally break even, if ever. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)Juno.com
Subject: Compression tester
Date: Apr 02, 1999
Later, having talked with a >friend, I found there may be something more to it than just valves, >guages and hoses. Maybe an orfice in the picture? >Could someone explain how to put a compression tester together? > >Thanks, Tom Barnes -6 canopy > Try page 460 of Airframe & powerplant Machanics powerplant handbook. need a .040 inch hole below I think 1000 in cube & .060 for over. Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 1999
From: Richard Reynolds <RVReynolds(at)macs.net>
Subject: Re: RV-6a Side Steps
Scott Kuebler wrote: "to make the optional side steps on the -6a removable?" Buy a little plastic step from K-Mart. Its cheaper. The pax can not get in or out until you place the step and help them. No bent flaps. I just finished install my steps in the RV-6A fuselage, lots of fitting and $160 for two steps. PS, use Van's plans as a guide. The weldment was a little off and the location of the hole in the side skin was way off (1.0 inches) in the vertical direction. Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A, ALMOST finished skinning the fuselage. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Sky-tec vs B & C starters
> >Has anyone directly compared Sky-tec vs B & C starters??? Jim Brown, >Matawan,NJ RV-3, O-320 > Many, many, many times . . . you can check our website for excerpts from the various discussions. The bottom line is that B&C starters are the only all ball bearing and all metal starters currently being offered as light-weights. All of the lightweights perform well with some indiosyncrocies so it's mostly a matter of deciding if the extra dollars are worth it for the extra effort B&C spent on the design of their product. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Independence Kansas: the > < Jurasic Park of aviation. > < Your source for brand new > < 40 year old airplanes. > ================================ http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: LSE Plasma CDI System
> >Well, sort of. Lycoming rep told me that *ANY* alteration of the ignition >system on a new engine would probably void the warrantly for many kinds of upper >end problems! Ask the "rep" for this condition in writing on Lycoming documents. There are a bunch of ol' salts out there who grew up with and embrace antique technology on modern products. Whether it's Lycoming or any other supplier of aviation proudcts, get their warranty statements in writing. If upgrades of their products are discouraged by threatening withdrawing warranty coverage, everyone in the consumer-grade aviation industry needs to know who those vendors are along with the basis (if any) for their actions. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Independence Kansas: the > < Jurasic Park of aviation. > < Your source for brand new > < 40 year old airplanes. > ================================ http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 1999
From: Vince Himsl <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com>
Subject: Re: oops, RV-8 tanks sender
Hello Greg, I am doing my tank now. If you follow the instructions that come with the sender from Van's, you will probably adjust it too high. It will bang the top skin. At least that is what happened to me. The plans say that some tweaking may be necessary after install so you can conclude the given dimensions are not gospel. If I had to install it blind, I would first bend it according to instructions, then tie a marker and weight to the float, install with clecoes, rotate tank, remove sender and look at the arc made on the inside baffle skin. Bend again, erase previous mark and then repeat the process until the arc is centered on the baffle. A tube type flouerescent light and telescoping mirror will help you see the arc. After I adjusted the sender, I had to adjust the bend so that the float center line was parallel to the skin. Another idea is to cut a crude piece of plexiglass using the cover plate as a template. Then you could mount the sender and look inside (hopefully) well enough to gage the correct position. I am not far enough along to know for sure but I suspect the real accuracy comes when you fill/calibrate the tanks prior to the first flight. Don't feel too bad, I had a 'nice' time post installing the fuel line vent clip! Fortunately I caught it before installing the baffle, but still, what a pain! Hope this helps! Regards, Vince Himsl RV8 Left wing tank (still) At 01:21 PM 4/2/99 , you wrote: > >Well, I knew I would forget something. I riveted my rear baffle on my >non inverted left tank yesterday and forgot to bend and set-up my SW >sender 1st. It would have been much easier to make sure I got the bends >right with the baffle removed. > >How has the 3" x 3" 90deg bend as depicted in the plans worked out for >everyone else using the PP tank cover plate? > >Also, come to think of it. What bend arrangement has everyone been >using on their inverted tanks? I believe I ordered a left and right SW >sender from vans? With the sender mounted in the center of the second >bay has anyone else used the "right" SW sender on their inv. tank? > >Greg Puckett >Elizabeth, CO > >RV-8 80081 > >rv8er(at)concentric.net > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 02, 1999
Subject: Re: RV-6a Side Steps
In a message dated 4/2/99 12:43:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, skuebler(at)CANNONdesign.com writes: << Has anybody else thought of this and tried or rejected the idea? >> Scott IMHO, I think I have an idea that will save money, weight, and aggravation. How about using a plastic bin like what is used in some communities to recycle trash, and also used to carry milk jugs? You could glue onto the edges some styrofoam pipe insulation, and install a lightweight lanyard. Both parties could enter the aircraft from the same side. Last person in retrieves the step stool. Once in the plane, any items going into the baggage compartment could be placed in the stool. This would weigh less than the metal side-steps, and involve less work. Also, keep one question in mind. Unless you have a step design that allows you to "retract" the step from the inside, I would think that it would be a pain to "remove before flight" unless you had someone on your "ground crew" remove it for you and hand it to you. Your airplane would not suffer the "maybe one mile an hour" that Van's claims. Has anyone else used some other ideas instead of installing these "steps"? Jim Nice RV6A WA State ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: My Website Has Moved!
Date: Apr 02, 1999
I have seen your plane in many pictures, but still have yet to see it in person. Maybe Oshkosh this year? Mine won't quite be ready, but I may go for a weekend. It looks like you have a nice piece of work, and your posts describe the work you have done. Thanks for all of your help, and your inspiration...time to get back to setting up my shop...It has been two long months since I have touched N197AB, so I can't wait to get going again. See you at a fly-in, I am sure of it. Paul P.s...Don't worry about quality of webpages. The information is there, and that is what counts. My page is really pretty simple, except for the graphics, which I stole from other sites. Any RV builder will be more than motivated by seeing your page..fyi, if you want an easy program to publish your pages with, get Frontpage 98. Works great.. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com> Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 8:34 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: My Website Has Moved! > > >Paul Besing wrote: >> >> >> Listers: I have a new provider, so my website has moved..you can access it >> at: >> >> http://members.home.net/rv8er >> >> Paul Besing >> RV-6A (197AB) Arizona >> http://members.home.net/rv8er >> Setting up new shop for Finish Kit! >> >> > >Paul >Nicely done page. I really can't contribute a whole lot to >building technique anymore because the kit has changed so much >since I started my RV-6 in 1987. But to help give a little inspiration >to you guys not flying I have put a few pictures of my RV on a web page >with little history and some pictures of some of the other airplanes >I have had the pleasure of building and flying. >Web publishing is something I am slowly learning so please be kind >with any comments:) > >http://www.teleport.com/~jsflyrv/ > >Jerry Springer|RV-6 first flight 1989|Hillsboro,Or|jsflyrv(at)teleport.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVHI(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 02, 1999
Subject: Re: RV-6a Side Steps
The way I look at it , assuming the twin you were looking at had retracts, the steps would look out of place & detract from the looks.. The 6A has three sets of gear hanging out in the wind, that will never look as sleek as a retractable. Therefor in my opinion, the steps are not that noticeable. I installed both steps on my 6A last month. L.Adamson RV6A - panel tomorrow ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 1999
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: the price of gas
and how much price increases are due to exploding refineries? hal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 1999
From: John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8;Observations/Landing
RV6junkie(at)aol.com wrote: > > I too gave-up doing 3-pointers in my RV-6 do to the limited forward > visibility. After talking with one of the local RV experts at my airport, I > have found that the best way to wheel land is to touchdown nose high (as if > doing a "tail-high" 3-pointer) and move the stick forward which kills most of > the remaining lift. I found that when I tried to land in a level attitude the > stiff gear would bounce the aircraft. > > Gary Corde > RV-6 N211GC - NJ > Gary; I had trouble wheel landing my -4 until an experienced pilot told me to land on the rear of the wheels. He also said don't trim the elevator after the initial power cut trim and as soon as the rear side of the mains touch down, release all back pressure on the stick. It works for me now unless the speed it too high. John Kitz N721JK Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 1999
From: George McNutt <gmcnutt(at)intergate.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Compression tester
Tom Barnes wrote: > > > A while back I got the urge to build a compression tester and went out to > Home Depot and purchsed lots of goodies. Later, having talked with a > friend, I found there may be something more to it than just valves, guages > and hoses. Maybe an orfice in the picture? > Could someone explain how to put a compression tester together? > > Thanks, Tom Barnes -6 canopy -------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Tom EA-AC 43.13 - 1A & 2A page 273 has a good diagram. Engines up to 1,000 cubic inch displacement have a restrictor orifice .040 diameter, .250 inch long with a 60 degree approach angle. I made one several years ago that works well. George McNutt, Langley B.C. 6A skinning fusealage. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: oops, RV-8 tanks sender
Date: Apr 03, 1999
>Well, I knew I would forget something. I riveted my rear baffle on my >non inverted left tank yesterday and forgot to bend and set-up my SW >sender 1st. It would have been much easier to make sure I got the >bends >right with the baffle removed. > >How has the 3" x 3" 90deg bend as depicted in the plans worked out for >everyone else using the PP tank cover plate? > Even with the bend instructions followed perfectly, it usually takes some minor adjustments to get it exactly right. An easy way for you to do this now is measure the tank depth at the point where the float will contact top and bottom. Then measure where the sender centers vertically between these 2 points. Now make a drawing on a cardboard box, table top, etc., that will allow you to hold/clamp the sender in the proper location between your "simulated" top and bottom skins. Keep making small adjustments to the float arm until it swings through the entire space and stops just as it reaches your simulated skin line at each end of the travel. It will now be very close to matching the tank exactly. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: RV-3 Wing Mods
Date: Apr 03, 1999
> >I'll retract my earlier posting regarding using a file to move the >1/8" holes in >the lower spar cap before drilling to 3/16 rivits, to ensure proper >edge >clearance. Not needed, as the upper (inner) part of the lower spar cap >is in >compressing during positive G loads. > >I don't believe that CN-2 promises full -6 G's. > >Finn > Finn, I believe you would be correct in assuming that, since the RV-3 with all of the recommended mods is not approved for - 6 G's. The airplane is approved for +6 / -3 G's. For the wing structure to be capable of + and - 6 G's, the mod. that is done on the top spar stiffeners (for compression loads) would also have to be done on the bottom ( for the compression loads during - G loading). As for the seeming counter diction in terms of cautioning against enlarging holes because of strength loss but then instructing builders/modifiers to enlarge holes... I can understand the confusion. What I believe Van was meaning to say is that a builder should not be "indiscriminately" enlarging holes for a bigger fastener because of the strength loss that it could cause. The holes that are being enlarged when doing the wing mods are holes that were enlarged on test wings that were used to qualify the modification itself. I.E., If you modify your wings as instructed, and they were built per the plans previous to that (no messed up/enlarged holes, etc.) then you have a set of wings that should be the equivalent to what was load tested in the shop at Van's and held the load at 9 G's as required by FAR 23. In the course of developing the modifications we probably built 1/2 dozen RV-3 wings in the shop and then tested them. The final version is the same as what a builder should have if no construction errors exist and the recommended mods are correctly installed. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 1999
Subject: Re: RV-6a Side Steps
In a message dated 4/2/99 4:29:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, JNice51355(at)aol.com writes: << Has anyone else used some other ideas instead of installing these "steps"? >> I don't know Jim, has anyone used some other ideas instead of installing a windscreen? -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com>
Subject: Mike Seageer Schedule ??? Please help
Date: Apr 03, 1999
Anyone out there know if Mike Seager is in NC this weekend giving RV training? I am in SC and if he is there and there is an open slot, I'd like to get it. SO if he is there and you know where, please email letting me know. Thanks James (803-603-8702 ... call collect if you have the info) RV6A-QB ... canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com>
Subject: Not exclusively RV, but flying related ... sobering
Date: Apr 03, 1999
Per the Cirrus Homepage, there was a recent crash of the Cirrus SR20, killing the test pilot. Every crash and particular every death is tough to bear but this one caused me to really stop and think ... Within a short period, most of the "experimental, amateur built" planes that I admired have had SERIOS crashes. To wit: Thunder Mustang RV-8 Lancair Columbia 300 Cirrus SR20 There **must** be some take-away for us all in this. These all appear to be GREAT planes being flown by what seemingly everyone says was a GREAT pilot. The plane I am building is of a great design but I suspect it will be of average build. I am definitely not a GREAT pilot. Makes ya think ... Let's all fly safe. James RV6AQ ... canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HAROLD1339(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 1999
Subject: Re:Check fuel tanks
At a recent annual, it was discovered that the slosh and seal that the builder had put in the fuel tanks on my RV4 was peeling off. Both tanks were removed and disassembled and manually scrapped and all the s&s and proseal was removed. A very expensive and difficult procedure. Please check in your tanks as we found pieces of this stuff in the pick-up tube and could lead to fuel starvation, a very serious situation. I have used car gas only a few times and will now use 100 LL exclusively. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 1999
From: "Charles P. Kuss" <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net>
Subject: Epoxy priming inside of fuel tanks
Listers, A fellow RV builder (not on the list) who is also an A&P has suggested that I epoxy prime all my fuel tank parts, inside and out. He says that the fuel tanks of nearly all the certified aircraft are epoxy primed internally. Has anyone on the list done this with their tanks? Comments please. Charlie Kuss RV-8 fuel tanks Boca Raton, Fl. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 1999
Subject: Re: RV-6a Side Steps
Scott, We have flown the same plane with and without the steps on it and have noticed no performance difference. The installation pictures feature our first RV-6A as we installed the first step outside of Van's planes. The safety for passengers and pilot entering and exiting the plane as well as the safety to your flaps is well worth any asthetic detraction in the airplane lines. Please give us a call if you need more information. George and Becki Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: RV-6 Steps
Date: Apr 03, 1999
George, I noticed your comment that you saw no performance difference with or without the side steps on RV-6s. I have talked to other RV-6A owners who say they lost about 5 MPH after putting on the steps. What's your secret? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6aJMW(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 1999
Subject: Re: RV-6a Side Steps
Justin, Do these steps for the RV6a go on both sides?or is it just for one side? Justin Wallace,Don Mckelson RV6a tail section(waiting for tools to arrive) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6aJMW(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 1999
Subject: Re: First move
Justin & Don, We have just bought the tools to get us threw the tail section of our RV6a! These tools were bought from Avery and the total was $860.00 worth of tools. It sould arrive Wes. Justin & Don RV6a(waiting for tools for tail section to arrive) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H. Martin Sutter" <hmsutter(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Epoxy priming inside of fuel tanks
Date: Apr 03, 1999
> >Listers, > A fellow RV builder (not on the list) who is also an A&P has suggested >that I epoxy prime all my fuel tank parts, inside and out> > > No Way! Any coating you put inside the tank will be exposed to a plethora of chemicals for years to come. So far "Pro Seal" is the only thing we know that will hold up for sure. Several years ago the instructions suggested that the tanks be sloshed with sloshing compound. Those of us who did so are living to regret that since the slosh is gradually coming loose on the older airplanes. Further more there is no way of knowing what the future chemical content of aviation gasoline will be. Leave well enough alone and stay with Van's instructions. Martin Sutter N868CM 1,350hrs> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 1999
From: Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Tank Reinforcing Ring - RV6
Does any one remember how they handled the reinforcing ring in regards to the tooling hole on the tank root rib? The plate nut rivet hole on the reinforcing ring and the tooling hole misaligned. The tooling hole is too big to use as a rivet hole (and not lined up) and not far enough away to be able to put a separate universal rivet as a filler. Let me know if I'm missing something simple... Larry Olson Cave Creek, AZ RV6 - Tanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 1999
From: Tim Bronson <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6a Side Steps
Hi Folks, Two comments on recent posts regarding steps on the RV-6A: 1) The Twin on the AOPA calendar is a Cessna 310. The step retracts and extends with the gear. 2) If you choose to go with the plastic stool or milk carton option, I would recommend adding some type of rubber or other non-skid material to the bottom of the stool. I have had these things slide away when I stepped on them from a hotel courtesy van. Some people have had bad falls for the same reason. I step over them now, directly to the ground, even from a tall vehicle, because I do not trust them not to slide out from under me. I think this could easily happen on a concrete or asphalt ramp. Of course, if you would just build a taildragger....Ow! Just kidding! ;) Tim - Pittsburgh ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DenClay(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 1999
Subject: Re: oops, RV-8 tanks sender
Listers, I am about to close my tanks and the sender floats are about 3/4 inch from the top and bottom skins when the sender range of motion goes to either extreme. I plan to bend the float to almost touching the top skin so as to reflect "full" when the tank is nearest to full (dihedral makes this measurement inaccurate), and when it registers "empty" on the guage it will have a bit of fuel left. When I fill an empty tank later I will record amounts of fuel that correspond to reference marks on the guage, expecially the 1/2 mark. Anyone armed with better information or ideas please shoot holes in this plan before I can no longer make changes easily. Thanks, Dennis Clay #80473 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "taborek" <taborek(at)pathcom.com>
Subject: RV-6 For Sale
Date: Apr 03, 1999
I am posting this on behalf of a friend, John Jensen. For Sale RV-6, Completed January 1996 Fully IFR and Certified 120 hrs TTSN. 180 HP Lycoming A1A and Hartzell Constant Speed Prop, new when installed. Terra stack, VOR, ADF, GPS, Mode C and Audio. ELT, Intercom, Engine Analyzer Fully upholstered Wingtip Strobes, Navigation and Landing Lights Inmont Paint System Annual Inspection Completed January 1999 Price $70,000 US Location Burlington Ontario, (near Toronto). Contact: John Jensen 139 Secord Lane Burlington, Ontario L7L 2H6 905-632-7824 I happen to know this aircraft was built in large part by a very experienced builder, who had previously completed eight homebuilts of various types. Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: Thanks for the info
Date: Apr 03, 1999
writes: >Thanks Don, I have this book. I just quickly scanned the article and >didn't see the size of the metering orifice. You've supplied a >valuable >missing link. > >Thanks, Tom Barnes > > I am sorry Tom: I found the articale in Ac 43.13-1a/3 para 692, page 273 or 337 I don't understand the page numbering they do. Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: oops, RV-8 tanks sender
Date: Apr 03, 1999
>I am about to close my tanks and the sender floats are about 3/4 inch from >the top and bottom skins when the sender range of motion goes to either >extreme. I plan to bend the float to almost touching the top skin so as to >reflect "full" when the tank is nearest to full (dihedral makes this >measurement inaccurate), and when it registers "empty" on the guage it will >have a bit of fuel left. When I fill an empty tank later I will record >amounts of fuel that correspond to reference marks on the guage, expecially >the 1/2 mark. Hi Dennis, I was happy with the range of my float movement, but I did have to pick either full or empty to be the best end of the travel. I chose to make the empty side more accurate. As you say, the full side will never be quite right due to dihedral, but the empty side can be reasonably accurate. Doing it your way will make both sides inaccurate. Keep in mind, this opinion is different, not "better". Either way, I would never really trust the fuel gauges. They're just a double-check of the fuel level that I expect to have. Probably, the most important thing is to understand and expect the inaccuracies of the method you choose. Now go install them and move on :-) Russell Duffy Navarre, FL RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (beginning fuselage skins) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Tank Reinforcing Ring - RV6
Date: Apr 03, 1999
> >Does any one remember how they handled the reinforcing >ring in regards to the tooling hole on the tank root rib? > >The plate nut rivet hole on the reinforcing ring and the >tooling hole misaligned. The tooling hole is too big to use >as a rivet hole (and not lined up) and not far enough away >to be able to put a separate universal rivet as a filler. > >Let me know if I'm missing something simple... > > >Larry Olson >Cave Creek, AZ >RV6 - Tanks > Patch on the inside. Use flush rivets to attach. John Ammeter Seattle WA USA 1975 Jensen Healey RV-6 (sold 4/98) EAA Technical Counselor NRA Life Member ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bktrub(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 1999
Subject: Re: Tank Reinforcing Ring - RV6
I just made a small plate and rivited it ove the hole. Brian Trubee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: oops, RV-8 tanks sender
Date: Apr 03, 1999
I replaced both my senders with newer style senders after the tanks were closed up. This was quite a while ago, but as I recall I just stuck the senders in there and turned the tanks over and progressively adjusted them so they wouldn't quite "bonk" the top/bottom of the tank when turned over. Somewhat tedious checking, taking them out, re-bending and trying again, but it's one way to do it. Randall Henderson, RV-6 (instruments/finish) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing randallh(at)home.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: Tank Reinforcing Ring - RV6
Date: Apr 03, 1999
>Does any one remember how they handled the reinforcing >ring in regards to the tooling hole on the tank root rib? > >The plate nut rivet hole on the reinforcing ring and the >tooling hole misaligned. The tooling hole is too big to use >as a rivet hole (and not lined up) and not far enough away >to be able to put a separate universal rivet as a filler. > >Let me know if I'm missing something simple... > > >Larry Olson >Cave Creek, AZ >RV6 - Tanks > > I guess the simple answer is that, it doesn't matter if you don't fill the tooling hole with a rivet. The access cover that will be screwed on over the opening will cover the tooling hole. Not by a lot, but it does cover it more than enough to seal it when the cover is screwed on. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: Not exclusively RV, but flying related ... sobering
Date: Apr 03, 1999
>Every crash and particular every death is tough to bear but this one caused >me to really stop and think ... > >Within a short period, most of the "experimental, amateur built" planes that >I admired have had SERIOS crashes. To wit: > >Thunder Mustang >RV-8 >Lancair Columbia 300 >Cirrus SR20 > >There **must** be some take-away for us all in this. These all appear to be >GREAT planes being flown by what seemingly everyone says was a GREAT pilot. Jim, More sobriety follows. Your list includes one certified airplane, the Cirrus. I will add another interesting read about an Extra 300S that was, fortunately, if not unbelieveably, not fatal! http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/CHI/99A120.htm I have flown the Extra. it is impossible for me to imagine breaking that airplane! The airplane is the pinnacle of quality design and construction. (IMHO) If I read this report correctly it was not the plastic that broke either! It looks to me like it was the water pipe that give way!!! We all have faith in that, right??? As a point of interest, these airplanes have nitrogen pressure in the tubing with a gauge in the cockpit that will indicate a loss of pressure should a crack develop anywhere. One would hope the pilot noticed a drop in pressure rather than a loud bang when the tubing broke. The latter might result in soiling one's trousers! At the risk of being redundant, the point of this is, the stick between your legs is called the "wing removal lever." Handle it accordingly. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com www.petroblend.com/dougr PS After you have read the NTSB report, remember all those threads about Aircraft G-stresses with the ailerons deflected? Anybody wanna bet a cool frosty that there is a correlation? I know a pilot with this group, I will try to learn more and report here. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 1999
Subject: Re: Not exclusively RV, but flying related ... sobering
In a message dated 4/3/99 12:49:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, jclark(at)conterra.com writes: << Within a short period, most of the "experimental, amateur built" planes that I admired have had SERIOUS crashes. To wit: Thunder Mustang>> Definitely pilot error. << RV-8>> Probable pilot/copilot error with possible limited design safety margin (my opinion only, not fact-only time will tell). << Lancair Columbia 300>> Definitely pilot error. << Cirrus SR20 >> Cause TBD. Also was the late Vern Dallman's fire in the Rocket (fuel system dysfunction), John Denver's loss of control in the Long-Ez (pilot error with construction issue), the Wheeler Express several years ago (pilot error with possible tail design issues-unproven) and too many others. We should remember the old adage that "flying is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect". Let's be careful out there, but have fun, -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 1999
From: "Robert D. Binzer" <robinzer(at)seidata.com>
Subject: Sobering
Hi lister, We are getting great information about the accidents and they are sobering. The advise is all good, remember this: Today I just learned about the death of a local aviation pioneer. When I inquired about how it happened I found that it was a routine pulling of a stump in the shallow steam on his farm. The tractor it seems did a loop he wasn't prepared for. Caution and a cool head works everywhere! Bob Binzer, 6a wings, Madison, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 1999
From: bramsec <bramsec(at)idirect.com>
Subject: Alternator
Just installed a Cessna (60amp) alternator today to my O-320 on my RV6.However the lower cowl hits the cooling fan. I raised the alternator as high as possible but only managed a 1/8" clearance, obviously the wrong alternator for this aircraft. Interested to know what brands of alternators others are using on their RV6's ? Regards Peter (Toronto Canada) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HillJW(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 1999
Subject: aluminum filler
What works best as a sandable filler for smoothing up roughness in aluminum? hilljw(at)aol.com rv8a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: A20driver(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 1999
Subject: Re: ACS catalog
Greg: I just ordered the General Aircraft Hardware catalog...Sound like a fantastic reference book...Cost $25 with a refund coupon good for 90 days when used with a $75 order...From my past experience, $75 is easily spent on acft hardware...Best Regards, Jim Brown-RV-3,Matawan,NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RICKRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 1999
Subject: Re: Alternator
Peter, I had the same probem with a 70 amp unit that came with my engine. A lot of overkill on the alternator but with the O320 and wood prop, I needed the nose weight. My alternator pully also had a fan attached which further decreased the cowl clearance. I lengthened the mounting slot in the alternator mounting arm and pulled the alternator up as close as possible to the engine. I had to use a slightly shorter belt but it worked fine and never had a problem with cowl clearance. Rick McBride RV6 N523JC RV8 80027 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PASSPAT(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 1999
Subject: Re: Alternator
I use the one from Dick Waters He is located in Fl. and his number is 1-800-366-4746 They seem to be OK and come with hardware etc. Pat RV- 8 # 80536 Starting fuse. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: aluminum filler
Date: Apr 03, 1999
I used micro-balloons and epoxy from my VariEze for damaged metal on the cowl of my Bellanca. Works great. Cy Galley - Editor BC Contact! Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com -----Original Message----- From: HillJW(at)aol.com <HillJW(at)aol.com> Date: Saturday, April 03, 1999 7:57 PM Subject: RV-List: aluminum filler > >What works best as a sandable filler for smoothing up roughness in aluminum? >hilljw(at)aol.com >rv8a > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 1999
Subject: Re: RV-6a Side Steps
In a message dated 4/3/99 9:40:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, RV6aJMW(at)aol.com writes: << Do these steps for the RV-6A go on both sides?or is it just for one side? >> I put them on both sides of my 6A and would do it again. My passengers and I appreciate them. If you want to be selfish just put them on your side. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 1999
Subject: Re: RV-6 Steps
In a message dated 4/3/99 9:13:44 AM Pacific Standard Time, fasching(at)amigo.net writes: << I noticed your comment that you saw no performance difference with or without the side steps on RV-6s. I have talked to other RV-6A owners who say they lost about 5 MPH after putting on the steps. >> I think people imagine all kinds of things. The mind can be very creative when it has no accurate facts with which to work. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 1999
From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Tank Reinforcing Ring - RV6
Larry Olson wrote: > > > Does any one remember how they handled the reinforcing > ring in regards to the tooling hole on the tank root rib? > > The plate nut rivet hole on the reinforcing ring and the > tooling hole misaligned. The tooling hole is too big to use > as a rivet hole (and not lined up) and not far enough away > to be able to put a separate universal rivet as a filler. > > Let me know if I'm missing something simple... > > Larry Olson > Cave Creek, AZ > RV6 - Tanks > Larry, My platenut rivet hole is about 1/16" from the tooling hole, but I think that will be ok. The ring completely covers the tooling hole so I won't need a rivet in the hole to seal it shut. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 1999
From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: oops, RV-8 tanks sender
DenClay(at)aol.com wrote: > > > Listers, > I am about to close my tanks and the sender floats are about 3/4 inch from > the top and bottom skins when the sender range of motion goes to either > extreme. I plan to bend the float to almost touching the top skin so as to > reflect "full" when the tank is nearest to full (dihedral makes this > measurement inaccurate), and when it registers "empty" on the guage it will > have a bit of fuel left. When I fill an empty tank later I will record > amounts of fuel that correspond to reference marks on the guage, expecially > the 1/2 mark. > Anyone armed with better information or ideas please shoot holes in this plan > before I can no longer make changes easily. > Thanks, > Dennis Clay #80473 > > Dennis, I think I would rather have the float bottomed out and indicating a reliable empty reading. More fuel related accidents have happened from "empty" conditions than "full" conditions. Therefore; a reliable empty reading would be safer than a reliable full reading IMHO. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 1999
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Prop failure/ warning
I lost a piece of my Bernie Warnke prop this afternoon. This prop may have been a unique model. It has bent tips made of what appears to be carbon fiber or some kind of high density plastic. I recently noticed the white paint on the front of the prop cracking in a line from leading to trailing edge, about 5" from the tip. I foolishly assumed that it was a paint problem. While doing the required pass down the grass strip prior to landing, I lost the wood & front half of the bent tip from paint crack out. Fortunately, the pass was being made at medium speed due to gusty conditions. Normal landing was made with no obvious damage to motor mounts, cowling, etc. The other tip has a paint crack in the same location, & the tip feels as if it may be broken under the fiberglas wrap. Bernie sold this prop to me as a 'new experimental design', so it may be the only one in existence, but if you have a Warnke prop with bent tips, check the tips carefully. Charlie RV-4 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Paul_Imhof(at)Dell.com
Subject: Re: ACS catalog
Date: Apr 03, 1999
I just ordered the book too. CAUTION! ... They sent my sales confirmation with my credit card AND expiration date. -Paul Imhof, RV-8 on gear -----Original Message----- From: A20driver(at)aol.com [mailto:A20driver(at)aol.com] Sent: Saturday, April 03, 1999 5:40 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: ACS catalog Greg: I just ordered the General Aircraft Hardware catalog...Sound like a fantastic reference book...Cost $25 with a refund coupon good for 90 days when used with a $75 order...From my past experience, $75 is easily spent on acft hardware...Best Regards, Jim Brown-RV-3,Matawan,NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Paul_Imhof(at)Dell.com
Subject: ACS catalog
Date: Apr 03, 1999
Here's the Email I wrote to them... -----Original Message----- From: Imhof, Paul Sent: Saturday, April 03, 1999 8:01 PM Subject: RE: GAHCo Book Order Dear Genuine Aircraft Hardware Co., Please STOP sending your sales confirmations via SMTP (unsecured) Email with credit card information in them. This is a very BAD thing to do. I was very happy to see a secured ordering site but I was VERY disappointed when my credit card number WITH expiration date was plainly displayed in my Email. I would hope you understand the severity of this. Your company has exposed my credit card to the Internet and to who knows what. I will no longer order ANYTHING from your company until you confirm that all credit card information will never be sent over Email. Sincerely, Paul Imhof ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 1999
From: dgates <dgates(at)techie.com>
Subject: Re: Prop failure/ warning
Thanks for posting this, Charlie! I'm sure glad to hear that, other than what I'm sure was a healthy dose of adrenaline, that all turned out well. I'm betting that one of your old instructors was somewhere in the back of your head while it was all happening whispering to ya "fly the plane". Your post was to the point, and let us all know that this is something to watch out for. 'Preciate it! THIS is why I subscribe to this list -- and why I support Matt with $$$ to keep this resource available to me. Don Gates Charlie and Tupper England wrote: > > I lost a piece of my Bernie Warnke prop this afternoon. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 1999
From: Bill Jaugilas <jaugilas(at)allways.net>
Subject: Re: Epoxy priming inside of fuel tanks
I have a PA28-140. Look in my tank and you can see brite shinny aluminum. You can even see printing in some places. Bill Jaugilas Charles P. Kuss wrote: > > > Listers, > A fellow RV builder (not on the list) who is also an A&P has suggested > that I epoxy prime all my fuel tank parts, inside and out. He says that > the fuel tanks of nearly all the certified aircraft are epoxy primed > internally. Has anyone on the list done this with their tanks? Comments > please. > Charlie Kuss > RV-8 fuel tanks > Boca Raton, Fl. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ferdfly(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Subject: Re: Prop failure/ warning
In a message dated 4/3/99 9:54:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, cengland(at)netdoor.com writes: << Bernie sold this prop to me as a 'new experimental design', so it may be the only one in existence, but if you have a Warnke prop with bent tips, check the tips carefully. Charlie RV-4 >> Charlie, A friend here in So Cal had one of those (almost constant speed) Warnke props fail in the exact same way. Any one running one of these props should examine the front face verry carefully! Fred LaForge RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 1999
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Putting wings on RV-4
Guess I measured twice and cut once. Just put the wings on for the first time and discovered much to my horrow the rear spar attach (W-407D) is 1/4 inch forward of where it should be. Van's suggest I remove the seatbelt anchors and move F-406D in front of F-406 bulkhead with spacers and then put the seatbelt anchors back in place. Sounds OK to me but they want step by step plan on what I do before they approve it. What do you think about cutting F-406D off flush with the fuselage and instead of removing the seatbelt anchors cut another F-406D in half so that it goes to the anchors but not all the way across the fuselage and bolt this to the F-406C, F406D and the Bulkhead assy. I would appreciate any input on this before sending my plan to Andy Hanna at Van's. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Subject: Re: Tank Reinforcing Ring - RV6
your gonna proseal that ring to the rib right!! the ring , rib, and plate nuts are prosealed to the rib which in my 2 tanks cover the lower tooling hole. on the outer side of the tank rib you put the cork gasket and cover plate with aviation gasket sealant, the other tooling holes gets a big rivit squeeshed in them, hope this helps, happy easter scott winging it in tampa waiting on mike seager tuesday ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: oops, RV-8 tanks sender
Date: Apr 04, 1999
The ONLY time a gage has be accurate for the FAA is when it is empty. Cy Galley - Editor BC Contact! Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com -----Original Message----- From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> Date: Saturday, April 03, 1999 11:39 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: oops, RV-8 tanks sender > >DenClay(at)aol.com wrote: >> >> >> Listers, >> I am about to close my tanks and the sender floats are about 3/4 inch from >> the top and bottom skins when the sender range of motion goes to either >> extreme. I plan to bend the float to almost touching the top skin so as to >> reflect "full" when the tank is nearest to full (dihedral makes this >> measurement inaccurate), and when it registers "empty" on the guage it will >> have a bit of fuel left. When I fill an empty tank later I will record >> amounts of fuel that correspond to reference marks on the guage, expecially >> the 1/2 mark. >> Anyone armed with better information or ideas please shoot holes in this plan >> before I can no longer make changes easily. >> Thanks, >> Dennis Clay #80473 >> >> > >Dennis, > >I think I would rather have the float bottomed out and indicating a >reliable empty reading. More fuel related accidents have happened from >"empty" conditions than "full" conditions. Therefore; a reliable empty >reading would be safer than a reliable full reading IMHO. > >Jerry Calvert >Edmond Ok -6 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 1999
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: prop NEEDED (was prop faliure)
In my haste, I forgot to ask: Does anyone have for sale, a standard Warnke 72 - 72 prop, or something similar? RV-4, O320 160 hp 3/8" bolts Thanks Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Subject: Re: RV-6 Steps
John, There is no secret to putting the steps on. We put them on as described in the instructions and did not lose any speed. They are not that big to cause that much drag. George Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Daniel H. Morris" <morristec(at)icdc.com>
Subject: RV 6 Engine Saga
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Sometimes you take your chances... I'm sending this story to the list for it's safety value and nothing else. The story- I was performing the Condition Inspection which was being conducted at the end of my Phase 1 (40 hr.) flight time. I always drain the oil through a paint strainer to show up any big stuff, and cut open the oil filter. The drained oil looked good, so on to the filter. Upon pulling the paper element apart, I spotted a glint of bronze. Something like a light metallic appearance. After washing a piece of the paper element off in a jar with clean solvent, the solvent contained very tiny (almost microscopic) bronze particles, giving the solvent a metallic appearance. Not a good sign! At the previous oil change just 20 hrs before there was no sign of this. Something must be drastically changing. Fortunately, the bronze things in the engine are easily identified, but the ones that are there are pretty important (valve guides, con. rod bushings, rocker bushings, and acessory drive gear bushings). The easiest thing to check is the valve guides and rocker bushings, so off came the valve covers. On removing one cover several loose parts were discovered. Seems that an inner spring on an intake valve had broken. The remaining parts proceeded to chew up the guide. Well, I thought that while this wasn't great, but that it could be much worse. Little did I know that this was only the beginning. A little background. While searching for an engine for the project, I came upon a highly recommended person who built up engines. He had an 0-320 available which he would build up to my specs. The price was good, but not so good to make me concerned. I specified very carefully what parts were to be replaced, what inspection criteria was to be used etc. Upon receipt of the engine it came with a log entry matching my specifications. One of the things that I specified was new valve springs, and standard dimension cylinders (so that they may go a round of overhaul before being replaced). This is a parallel valve engine. On removal of the cylinder the following was found. The valve springs that were installed were for an angle valve cylinder, probably contributing to the spring failure. The cylinder dimension check showed that the cylinder bore was beyond service limits for .010 over size cylinders (beyond limits for a nitrided cylinder). The pistons and rings were for a standard cylinder. This left ring end gaps 3 times the allowable. Needless to say the scope of the problem got much worse at this point. The remainder of the cylinders were removed. All 4 cylinders had incorrect springs, and were similarly oversized with standard pistons and rings installed. Furthermore, several cylinder head rocker bushings were cracked and or loose in the head, and one cylinder head was found very cracked at a vlave seat. There were some serious safety issues here. The valve guide was probable only a couple of hours from total failure which would have resulted in swallowing a valve. Any one of the conditions found could have led to sudden stoppage of the engine, which of course will always occur at the least convienent time. References or not, the overhauler had obviously done shoddy work, and then was willing to sign for it. Of course there was concern about the remainder of the engine. The accessory housing and sump were removed. From there everything was examined and no other problems found. In conversations with the overhauler, it appears that he got the cylinders reconditioned by someone else, then simply took their word for it. The facts above have all been verified by an experienced third party engine overhauler. The moral of the story: When you change oil check the oil and filter carefully. Even the smallest anomoly should be considered. I feel lucky. The airplane wasn't damaged, and no one was hurt. Epilog- Apparently the overhauler thinks that all of this is no big deal. I think that there are serious safety issues here. After long conversations with the overhauler, I have no reason to beieve that this situation is unique. If you have, or know of anyone having an engine that was overhauled by Mr. Ed Low of Columbus, OH, ( and I know that there are RV's out there with them) please consider that you may have a safety situation with your engine that may be undetectable until catastrophic failure. Dan Morris A&P, IA RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DFCPAC(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Subject: new to list
hello everyone. i'm in the middle of buying an rv-3a and i would appreciate any information that anyone one has on the rv-3a such as what to look for when inspecting the plane. the n number is n148cw it was built by charlie wilson up in spokan washington in 1994. it has a lyoc.= 0-320-e2c and ted hendrickson wood prop. i've only seen photo's of it so far looks very clean. will be buying it next weekend if all works out. i'm from new york. there are a few rv out here on long island but no 3's there is 2 6's flying one 8 being built and another 6 being built. thank you dan carley e-mail = dfcpac(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 1999
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: aluminum filler
>> >>What works best as a sandable filler for smoothing up roughness in >aluminum? Bondo. You would be amazed at how many spam cans have bondo on them when you strip them to repaint. But then again, maybe you wouldn't. ; ) Brian Lloyd Livingston Enterprises, Inc. brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 (916) 676-6399 - voice (916) 676-3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DFCPAC(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Subject: new to the list
hello everyone. i'm in the middle of buying an rv-3a and i would appreciate any information that anyone one has on the rv-3a such as what to look for when inspecting the plane. the n number is n148cw it was built by charlie wilson up in spokan washington in 1994. it has a lyoc.= 0-320-e2c and ted hendrickson wood prop. i've only seen photo's of it so far looks very clean. will be buying it next weekend if all works out. i'm from new york. there are a few rv out here on long island but no 3's there is 2 6's flying one 8 being built and another 6 being built. thank you dan carley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: aluminum filler
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Bondo is HEAVY -----Original Message----- From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 11:26 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: aluminum filler > >>> >>>What works best as a sandable filler for smoothing up roughness in >>aluminum? > >Bondo. You would be amazed at how many spam cans have bondo on them when >you strip them to repaint. But then again, maybe you wouldn't. ; ) > > >Brian Lloyd Livingston Enterprises, Inc. >brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 >http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 >(916) 676-6399 - voice (916) 676-3442 - fax O- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 1999
From: info@e-ski.net
Subject: Re: RV-6 Steps
I put the step on the right side of my 6A but not the left. Why? Because as the pilot and owner of the aircraft, I am aware of the big step up and down. A passenger may not be, or may not be as physically capable of making it with ease. The convincing factor was a few years ago at Oshkosh where I saw Van's demo 6A (no step at the time) with lots of dents and damage to the flap. Someone accidentally stepping on the flap could cause a lot of damage to both the flap itself or the flap actuation hardware. Having this happen 1000 miles from home would not make for a good day of flying. Regarding drag; my 6A with a step is faster than my hangarmates 4. So go figure. There are a lot of places to pick up or lose speed on these planes that are a lot more critical than the 1/10th of a mile per hour that might be attributable to a Van's clean step. Andy Gold RV-6A N-5060 Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 1999
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Prop failure/ warning
Ferdfly(at)aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/3/99 9:54:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > cengland(at)netdoor.com writes: > > << > Bernie sold this prop to me as a 'new experimental design', so it may be > the only one in existence, but if you have a Warnke prop with bent tips, > check the tips carefully. > > Charlie > > RV-4 > >> > Charlie, A friend here in So Cal had one of those (almost constant speed) > Warnke props fail in the exact same way. Any one running one of these props > should examine the front face verry carefully! Fred LaForge RV-4 Flying > Fred when you say one of those props do you mean a bent tip one like Charles had or the standard thin blade Warnke? I have had one of the early "almost constant speed props" on my 180hp RV-6 for about 7 years now and have had no problems. I really like this prop and have had better service with it than either Sensenich or Pacesetter. Jerry Springer|RV-6 flying since 1989|Hillsboro, OR| jsflyrv(at)teleport.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Subject: Re: RV 6 Engine Saga
<< A little background. While searching for an engine for the project, I came upon a highly recommended person who built up engines. He had an 0-320 available which he would build up to my specs. The price was good, but not so good to make me concerned. I specified very carefully what parts were to be replaced, what inspection criteria was to be used etc. >> Dan, I had a similar experience with the engine I originally purchased for my 4. I bought a hombuilt project (a cavalier 102.5) that included engine 0SMOH, instruments and several other goodies. The price was right and even after the disaster I think I still came out ahead. My 4 was not ready to fly but I had another freind that had his engine down for overhaul and we decided to run the engine in on his plane and have him break it in for me while his was down. After initial ground runs were complete everything looked ok and it was time to fly. The engine lasted about a grand total of 2hrs before the plugs started fowling and the carburator had oil running out of it. After pulling the cylinders it was determined that the wrong rings were installed, and the cylinders were out of tolerance. After this I decided I couldnt take a chance on the rest of the engine so I disasembled sent everything out purchased new bearings and reasembled my self. In the mean time I tried to find the supposed A&P who overhauled this thing. Odly enough the number in the book did not translate to any individual. I cant prove it but my theory is that the guy I purchased the project from is the one who actually did the overhaul ( he claims he and this A&P who doesent exist) and he penciled in an arbotrary number in the book. Like my Dad always used to say (and still does). Let the buyer beware, and of course you get what you pay for! I am currious though Dan why if your an A&P and an IA why you would pay someone else to do it for you. After my experience I have overhauled many engines for other people. But only if it is done my way. And when it comes time for my next one I will be looking for a core that is pulled off after a first time run and overhaul it myself. I am one of the very few people I trust. Ryan Bendure Co A&P ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: Putting wings on RV-4
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Earl, At first blush I prefer Van's suggestion. I think you will want the aft spar carry-through structure to be one piece straight through. The aft spar carries wing drag loads which place the carry-through structure in compression. Do you have any thoughts on how the mismatch occurred? I would suspect the F-406 bulkhead is off by 1/4", since the wing main ribs determine the spacing between the main and aft spar. For all of you still building your fuselages, I recommend that you measure the distance between your main and aft spars while setting up the fuselage on the fixture. Also measure the distance between the forward and aft horizontal stabilizer spars. Then adjust your fuselage so that it will match YOUR wings and tail. This will prevent similar nasty surprises. I did this on my RV-4. As I recall, my wings were right on the plans dimension, but my horizontal tail differed slightly. Regards, Tom Craig-Stearman RV-4 STILL sanding and filling the cowl -----Original Message----- From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 9:55 AM Subject: RV-List: Putting wings on RV-4 > >Guess I measured twice and cut once. Just put the wings on for the first >time and discovered much to my horrow the rear spar attach (W-407D) is >1/4 inch forward of where it should be. Van's suggest I remove the >seatbelt anchors and move F-406D in front of F-406 bulkhead with spacers >and then put the seatbelt anchors back in place. Sounds OK to me but >they want step by step plan on what I do before they approve it. > >What do you think about cutting F-406D off flush with the fuselage and >instead of removing the seatbelt anchors cut another F-406D in half so >that it goes to the anchors but not all the way across the fuselage and >bolt this to the F-406C, F406D and the Bulkhead assy. > >I would appreciate any input on this before sending my plan to Andy >Hanna at Van's. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: Another (long) Engine Saga
Date: Apr 04, 1999
>You hear these stories................. 'Course, getting a new engine is no >guarantee; things can still happen. (My oil sure stays clean, though; doesn't >burn much either.) > >Michael >RV-4 N232 Suzie Q >Running smoothly........ Too true, Michael. My brand new O-360 from Van's had a bad exhaust valve. I don't mean it was just a little out of round; the seat area was clearly oval to the naked eye. Fortunately we found it while modifying the engine. I might otherwise have had an exciting tale for the 'List. Regards, Tom Craig-Stearman RV-4 64ST sanding & filling & sanding & filling & sanding & filling . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVHI(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Subject: Re: Back riveting question
I used the Avery spring loaded back riveting tool. The aileron skins lay insides up on a large piece of flat polished steel plate. All the rivets are pre-loaded & taped to the skins. Set the stiffeners over the rivets, press down on the stiffener & rivet. This setup works well & leaves no marks on the skins. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6Russ(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Subject: Rv6Awings
Does anyone know someone who likes to build wings? I need to repair/replace both wings on my bird. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 1999
From: Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Re: Rv6Awings
RV6 Russ, Was there an accident? Larry Olson Cave Creek, Az RV6 - Trying to get MY wings done ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Sipp" <rsipp(at)ismi.net>
Subject: Re: RV 6 Engine Saga
Date: Apr 04, 1999
-----Original Message----- From: Daniel H. Morris <morristec(at)icdc.com> Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 12:47 PM Subject: RV-List: RV 6 Engine Saga > >Sometimes you take your chances... > >I'm sending this story to the list for it's safety value and nothing else. > >The story- >I was performing the Condition Inspection which was being conducted at the >end of my Phase 1 (40 hr.) flight time. I always drain the oil through a >paint strainer to show up any big stuff, and cut open the oil filter. Great inspection technique Dan, and good catch! Events such as this is the reason I elected to install the ADC remote oil filter on my O-320 RV-4. The fine screen (25 micron) element is easily inspected and cleaned at each oil change. Additionally, it includes a bypass indicator light to warn of contaminant build up and a magnetic chip indicator light. As the manufacturer suggested the bypass light came on after about 20 hours on a fresh complete overhaul. The element had trapped a small amount of lint etc. as well as a small amount of "normal" break-in shavings. Since then periodic cleanings show very little contamination. I also used a major overhaul facility (G&N) with an established record and dyno test facility. I had a "friend" I thought qualified rebuild the carb and then had to have the job done over again to get it done right. 150 Hours RV4 N250DS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Anthony Dutton" <Anthony(at)dutton42.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Stall Warners
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Over here in England we have to fit an audiable stall warner to the RV6. Does anyone know of the availablility of a stall warner kit, other than the Aircraft Spruce one which is expensive. Has anyone got any experience of fitting a stall warner? Any comments gratefully received. Tony Dutton. Waiting for Wing Kit to arrive ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New Residential Airpark
Date: Apr 04, 1999
From: J&K Originals <jgh(at)iavbbs.com>
Michigan RV builders who want to live close to their planes might like to know that a group of Northwest pilots is in the process of attempting to purchase the Linden Mi airport (9G2) for conversion to a "residential airpark community". If the local planning commission approves, they plan to extend the runway to 4000', add taxiways, and offer one acre or larger lots for homes with integral hangars. The FBO would continue to operate and new hangar space added if and when demand warrants. They have distributed a flyer to many Michigan pilots but apparently not everybody got one. If you are interested please send an email and I'll provide the name and phone number of the person(s) to contact. To avoid cluttering the list with repetitive and perhaps unwanted messages, please use the address below. I'm not a member of the group but suggested this posting after learning that one of them is building an RV-4. They indicated they are getting a large number of calls and are keeping a list of people to contact after the planning commission meets. Jack Haviland jgh(at)iavbbs.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gummos" <tg1965(at)linkline.com>
Subject: Re: Rv6Awings
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Where are you located. I have friend who loves to build here in Hesperia, CA. Tom Gummo -----Original Message----- From: RV6Russ(at)aol.com <RV6Russ(at)aol.com> Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 2:59 PM Subject: RV-List: Rv6Awings > >Does anyone know someone who likes to build wings? I need to repair/replace >both wings on my bird. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVGEM(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Subject: Re: the price of gas
Brian, just a little bit of tartan information. I topped off my tanks today at 92 pence per litre over here in Aberdeen, Scotland. That computes back to over $5 per US gallon !! This accounts for a considerable chunk of the wet hire costs over here. John Wheeler 10 hours on RV6a, G-RVEE and loving every moment of it. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Subject: Century 2 help
From: don r jordan <donspawn(at)Juno.com>
I bought a Century 2 auto pilot. Can anyone help with the layout of the pins? I have the wiring & servo. Also have a black box which I think is the interface to the tracking off the Nav radios. Don Jordan ~ Arlington, Tx ~ RV6A fuselage ~ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: flyhars(at)ibm.net
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Subject: Re: oops, RV-8 tanks sender
CY: In reference to the sender calibration, I recently replaced the senders in the Rv-6 I owned. I used the new SW senders Van sells, I installed a New Electronic International Fuel Indicator, which is very accurate as you calibrate the indicator every two gallons, and the indicator has permanent memory, as you calibrate it in steps. When it goes above about 15 gallons the last three gallons made no difference. But the bottom end was very accurate. The beauty of the system is that it is digital and analog. It send visual warning when it is time to change tanks I.E. 1/4 out of balance, and on the low end at about 1/8 tank it sends a red warning. The situation that has been discussed here is correct. It will be accurate at full or empty but not both because of dihedral of the wing. I had a fuel injected engine and I wanted to know exactly how much fuel that was left at the bottom end. This gage system is the best I have seen. They make two kinds, resistive and capacative . I am building my second RV-6 and I plan to use the same system, because it works the way a fuel system should work. The cost of this indicator is about $350.00. I can appreciate the system as I am a Professional Flight Engineer, and I have spent my whole life looking at fuel indicators. No pun intended. Harvey Sigmon - RV-6A QB- Waiting for Kit Cy Galley wrote: > > The ONLY time a gage has be accurate for the FAA is when it is empty. > > Cy Galley - Editor BC Contact! > Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Saturday, April 03, 1999 11:39 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: oops, RV-8 tanks sender > > > > >DenClay(at)aol.com wrote: > >> > >> > >> Listers, > >> I am about to close my tanks and the sender floats are about 3/4 inch > from > >> the top and bottom skins when the sender range of motion goes to either > >> extreme. I plan to bend the float to almost touching the top skin so as > to > >> reflect "full" when the tank is nearest to full (dihedral makes this > >> measurement inaccurate), and when it registers "empty" on the guage it > will > >> have a bit of fuel left. When I fill an empty tank later I will record > >> amounts of fuel that correspond to reference marks on the guage, > expecially > >> the 1/2 mark. > >> Anyone armed with better information or ideas please shoot holes in this > plan > >> before I can no longer make changes easily. > >> Thanks, > >> Dennis Clay #80473 > >> > >> > > > >Dennis, > > > >I think I would rather have the float bottomed out and indicating a > >reliable empty reading. More fuel related accidents have happened from > >"empty" conditions than "full" conditions. Therefore; a reliable empty > >reading would be safer than a reliable full reading IMHO. > > > >Jerry Calvert > >Edmond Ok -6 > > > > > > Matronics: http://www.matronics.com > RV-List: http://www.matronics.com/rv-list > Archive Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search > Archive Browsing: http://www.matronics.com/archives > Other Email Lists: http://www.matronics.com/other ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Baxter" <robbax(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: VS808 spar plate curved?
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Hello Listers I'm wondering if anyone has experienced an unusual looking VS808 spar plate. Mine has a gentle curve to it out of the box. It will flatten out on the work table but "springs" back leaving about 3/4" off the table at the forked end. Is this a concern? Could it cause some problems with the VS803 spar alignment. I did have some shipping damage..my rudder skin was crunched badly on the top and I had bent flanges on R802PP and E602. The spars are in a different container then the skin so it seems as if UPS had to work very hard to mangle 2 well packed boxes. The box with the skins was punctured twice through the "fragile handle with care" tape. thx in advance for any wisdom offered Rob Baxter RV8 finished emp. inventory ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 1999
From: Larry Rush <krush(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Re: Brake lines
Help?? I am running the aluminum brake lines in the cockpit from the flex lines on the firewall to the sides where they feed through. The drawings do not show any dimensions where they feed through the sides. In fact it is VERY vague. If I were to just eye ball it, I would say the feed through fitting is shown between the forward wing attach and the vertical rib about 15 inches back from the firewall. This is a tight area and the line will hit the 3/4 angle reinforcing piece on the inside that backs up the forward wing attach. Also getting to the fitting with a wrench will be a bear. The sides here are close to where your feet will be during flight so the lines must be run as close to the inside wall as possible. Is it more common to put the feed through behind the vertical rib and run the line thru it via a grommet etc.???? Confused.... & @#$& @(*& >: Larry, RV-6A finish kit stuff > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Philip A Lehrke" <plehrke(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Don't shoot me: primer/paint question!
Date: Apr 04, 1999
-----Original Message----- From: RVHI(at)aol.com <RVHI(at)aol.com> Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 5:57 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Don't shoot me: primer/paint question! > >You may want to check into using "Mar-Hyde" self etching primer. It's light >grey, comes in 19oz. spray cans & dries very fast. I just lightly scuff the >alum. surface with the grey scotch brite pads before spraying. Both the >Mar-hyde & grey scotch pads can be purchased at many automotive paint >suppliers. This product is good for steel, aluminum, & stainless steel. > >L.Adamson RV6A fuselage > I would not use Marhyde on steel parts as it does not provide a vapor barrier. I started using Marhyde on all my aluminum parts but 6 months into my project Jim Cone, who lives 5 miles from me, had his RV-6A destroyed in a wind storm. Jim was a big supporter on this rv-list of Marhyde and used it on everything. After examining his damaged plane he found that all the steel parts had corrosion on them under the Marhyde after only one year. On his new RV-6A he is using 2 part epoxy primer for steel and aluminum after being convinced that Marhyde is easy and tough but not a moisture barrier. By the way Jim has not been on the RV-list since he got his new quickbuild kit last fall. He is building at a furious pace and will fly this summer. I wish I was an airline pilot and had all that time to build! Phil Lehrke RV-6A St Louis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Mack" <donmack(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Don't shoot me: primer/paint question!
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Marhyde is not to be used on steel. You must use a different primer on steel. When I prime around the steel parts, I always tape them off before spraying with Marhyde Don Mack RV-6A Fuselage Ercoupe N2051H donmack(at)flash.net http://www.flash.net/~donmack > > > >You may want to check into using "Mar-Hyde" self etching primer. It's light > >grey, comes in 19oz. spray cans & dries very fast. I just lightly scuff the > >alum. surface with the grey scotch brite pads before spraying. Both the > >Mar-hyde & grey scotch pads can be purchased at many automotive paint > >suppliers. This product is good for steel, aluminum, & stainless steel. > > > >L.Adamson RV6A fuselage > > > > > I would not use Marhyde on steel parts as it does not provide a vapor > barrier. I started using Marhyde on all my aluminum parts but 6 months into > my project Jim Cone, who lives 5 miles from me, had his RV-6A destroyed in a > wind storm. Jim was a big supporter on this rv-list of Marhyde and used it > on everything. After examining his damaged plane he found that all the > steel parts had corrosion on them under the Marhyde after only one year. On > his new RV-6A he is using 2 part epoxy primer for steel and aluminum after > being convinced that Marhyde is easy and tough but not a moisture barrier. > > By the way Jim has not been on the RV-list since he got his new quickbuild > kit last fall. He is building at a furious pace and will fly this summer. > I wish I was an airline pilot and had all that time to build! > > Phil Lehrke > RV-6A > St Louis > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Emrath" <emrath(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Tank Reinforcing Ring - RV6
Date: Apr 04, 1999
-----Original Message----- From: Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com> Date: Saturday, April 03, 1999 12:52 PM Subject: RV-List: Tank Reinforcing Ring - RV6 > >Does any one remember how they handled the reinforcing >ring in regards to the tooling hole on the tank root rib? > >The plate nut rivet hole on the reinforcing ring and the >tooling hole misaligned. The tooling hole is too big to use >as a rivet hole (and not lined up) and not far enough away >to be able to put a separate universal rivet as a filler. > >Let me know if I'm missing something simple... > > >Larry Olson >Cave Creek, AZ >RV6 - Tanks > Larry, I riveted on all but three of the nut plates on the reinforcement ring first. The three I left off are located at noon, four and eight o'clock position. These three are riveted "through" the ring and the rib. Thus I have only 6 rivets holding the reinforcement ring on going through the ears of three nut plates. My ring is prosealed on, and all rivet tails covered with ProSeal. The access cover screws will hold the access cover plate on, and the 6 "through" rivets only hold the ring on until the proseal sets up. The screws should later hold everything together. This way you can locate the "through" rivets so that there is no rivet hole anywhere near the tooling hole. Fill the tooling hole with proseal when you put the ring on. Don't know if others have done this or if it will leak as I am still working on my first wing. Marty RV6_ in Nashville. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Emrath" <emrath(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Don't shoot me: primer/paint question!
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Another option may be to topcoat the primer with something. At least that is what I'm doing with my Sherwin Williams 980 spray can. Yea, spray twice, but it is quick, drys fast. -----Original Message----- From: Philip A Lehrke <plehrke(at)msn.com> Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 8:41 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Don't shoot me: primer/paint question! > > >-----Original Message----- >From: RVHI(at)aol.com <RVHI(at)aol.com> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 5:57 PM >Subject: Re: RV-List: Don't shoot me: primer/paint question! > > >> >>You may want to check into using "Mar-Hyde" self etching primer. It's light >>grey, comes in 19oz. spray cans & dries very fast. I just lightly scuff the >>alum. surface with the grey scotch brite pads before spraying. Both the >>Mar-hyde & grey scotch pads can be purchased at many automotive paint >>suppliers. This product is good for steel, aluminum, & stainless steel. >> >>L.Adamson RV6A fuselage >> > > >I would not use Marhyde on steel parts as it does not provide a vapor >barrier. I started using Marhyde on all my aluminum parts but 6 months into >my project Jim Cone, who lives 5 miles from me, had his RV-6A destroyed in a >wind storm. Jim was a big supporter on this rv-list of Marhyde and used it >on everything. After examining his damaged plane he found that all the >steel parts had corrosion on them under the Marhyde after only one year. On >his new RV-6A he is using 2 part epoxy primer for steel and aluminum after >being convinced that Marhyde is easy and tough but not a moisture barrier. > >By the way Jim has not been on the RV-list since he got his new quickbuild >kit last fall. He is building at a furious pace and will fly this summer. >I wish I was an airline pilot and had all that time to build! > >Phil Lehrke >RV-6A >St Louis > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 1999
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: VS808 spar plate curved?
> >Hello Listers >I'm wondering if anyone has experienced an unusual looking VS808 spar plate. >Mine has a gentle curve to it out of the box. It will flatten out on the >work table but "springs" back leaving about 3/4" off the table at the forked >end. Is this a concern? Could it cause some problems with the VS803 spar >alignment. >I did have some shipping damage..my rudder skin was crunched badly on the >top and I had bent flanges on R802PP and E602. The spars are in a different >container then the skin so it seems as if UPS had to work very hard to >mangle 2 well packed boxes. The box with the skins was punctured twice >through the "fragile handle with care" tape. > >thx in advance for any wisdom offered > >Rob Baxter RV8 >finished emp. inventory Hi Rob, Your VS808 sounds it is curved exactly the same way mine was. I suspect they are all that way. Some kind of artifact of the way they are made. It didn't take too much force to flatten it out, but it would spring back. But, once you get everything all riveted together, that VS is very stiff, and there is no way that the VS808 is going to give you any problem in my humble opinion. Mind you, my VS is still hanging on the wall, so this opinion is worth every cent you paid for it :=) Take care, Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks & fuselage bulkheads) khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home) Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work) http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Subject: Re: Back riveting question
avery sells a nice set that has a plastic skirt that is spring loaded, don't leave home without it scott winging it in tampa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Subject: Re: Century 2 help
In a message dated 4/4/99 6:40:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, donspawn(at)Juno.com writes: << I bought a Century 2 auto pilot. Can anyone help with the layout of the pins? I have the wiring & servo. Also have a black box which I think is the interface to the tracking off the Nav radios. >> Contact Century at 800-433-5630 <http://www.centuryflight.com>. They contacted me to get included in the next rev of the Yeller Pages. Tell them you got the word here. The Yellers are getting famous as I get a new vendor of something or other every few weeks contacting me. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 1999
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: Brake lines
Larry, I ran mine a couple of weeks ago and placed the 90 deg. bulkhead fitting 5.125 " in front of the forward face of the main wing spar and 1.25" above the centerline of the 1.25" angle. This places the fitting up and forward enough to clear the main gear mount and still leaves enough room for the aux. fuel pump. The line then drops down and runs parallel to the 1.25 angle and is clamped using two adel clamps attached to the angle. The other side is the same except that it has to run up and over the battery box. As the line runs up and over the battery box I again used adel clamps attached at the battery box base top AN3 bolts with a couple of AN960-10 washers to space the line out far enough to clear the big angle pieces on the bottom of the firewall. Nylon clamps were used to secure the line at the bottom of the battery box. I drilled and tapped the big angle pieces for a number 8 screws to hold the nylon clamps. Where the 90 deg. bulkhead fittings pass through the fuselage you will need a .063" washer (made from scrap lightening holes) so that there is enough material to tighten the nut. There is also a .165" gap between the .063" gusset plate and the outside skin so the skin has to have a larger hole to allow the nut to sit against the gusset plate. I found a 1 inch hole in the skin was just enough room for the nut. To make the two sizes of holes, drill a pilot hole first. Then using a hole saw, rota broach (sp.) or forstner bit, make the hole in the outside skin. once this hole is made a unibit will drill a clean hole in the gusset plate. As I recall, the inside hole is 7/16". So there you have it. Hope this helps Gary Zilik RV-6A s/n 22993 - engine stuff, instrument stuff, flap stuff, and general all around finishing stuff. Larry Rush wrote: > > Help?? > I am running the aluminum brake lines in the cockpit from the flex lines on > the firewall to the sides where they feed through. The drawings do not show > any dimensions where they feed through the sides. In fact it is VERY vague. > If I were to just eye ball it, I would say the feed through fitting is > shown between the forward wing attach and the vertical rib about 15 inches > back from the firewall. This is a tight area and the line will hit the 3/4 > angle reinforcing piece on the inside that backs up the forward wing > attach. Also getting to the fitting with a wrench will be a bear. The sides > here are close to where your feet will be during flight so the lines must > be run as close to the inside wall as possible. Is it more common to put > the feed through behind the vertical rib and run the line thru it via a > grommet etc.???? Confused.... & @#$& @(*& >: ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: Tank Reinforcing Ring - RV6
Date: Apr 04, 1999
>your gonna proseal that ring to the rib right!! the ring , rib, and >plate >nuts are prosealed to the rib which in my 2 tanks cover the lower >tooling >hole. on the outer side of the tank rib you put the cork gasket and >cover >plate with aviation gasket sealant, - Because the outer cover plate covers everything it is redundant work to put proseal on the re-enforcing ring, but I guess their is nothing wrong with doing so since we all look forward to the parts that "we get" to install with proseal. :-) Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: oops, RV-8 tanks sender
Date: Apr 04, 1999
> >CY: In reference to the sender calibration, I recently replaced the >senders in >the Rv-6 I owned. I used the new SW senders Van sells, I installed a >New >Electronic International Fuel Indicator, which is very accurate as you >calibrate >the indicator every two gallons, and the indicator has permanent >memory, as you >calibrate it in steps. The situation that has been discussed >here is >correct. It will be accurate at full or empty but not both because of >dihedral >of the wing. This gage system is the best I >have >seen. They make two kinds, resistive and capacative . I am building >my second >RV-6 and I plan to use the same system, because it works the way a >fuel system >should work. The cost of this indicator is about $350.00. I can >appreciate the >system as I am a Professional Flight Engineer, and I have spent my >whole life >looking at fuel indicators. No pun intended. >Harvey Sigmon - RV-6A QB- Waiting for Kit > Anyone willing to to pay the price for the Electronics International fuel instrument can now have total fuel gage accuracy from zero fuel all the way up to full tanks and have a visual reading of the fuel in the tank (even the amount normally above the fuel level sender because of dihedral). This can be done by using the capacitive version of the gage and a capacitive sensor kit available (soon) from Van's at a very reasonable cost. See more info in the latest RVator (Soon coming to mail boxes near you). Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVHI(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Subject: Re: Don't shoot me: primer/paint question!
As far as steel & Marhyde are concerned, the can states right on the side --- adheres to steel / aluminum/ stainless steel. Use under all primer surfaces. Furthur down in the directions, it states---- make sure that steel is free from rust. Personally I use Marhyde for quick spot priming of aluminum parts which are all interior. The majority of my RV6A is primed with PPG two part epoxy. The steel parts are coated with Rust-Oleum primer & paint. L.Adamson ---- RV6A fusalage top side ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mheaps" <mheaps(at)uniserve.com>
Subject: Oil Cooler fire wall mount
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Has any one mounted their oil cooler on the fire wall ? an if so what should the stand off distance be, what size scat tube, should it be a controled flow ,any info on this application shall be greatly appreciated. Mike RV8 getting very close ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 1999
From: Larry Rush <krush(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Re:
Gary, Thanks very much for the detailed info on running the brake lines. I appreciate it. Too bad the drawings do not at least suggest this possible installation. Larry, RV-6A finishing stuff in fuselage ...........................BK..................................... > >Larry, > >I ran mine a couple of weeks ago and placed the 90 deg. bulkhead fitting 5.125" >in front of the forward face of the main wing spar and 1.25" above the >centerline of the 1.25" angle. This places the fitting up and forward enough to >clear the main gear mount and still leaves enough room for the aux. fuel pump. >The line then drops down and runs parallel to the 1.25 angle and is clamped >using two adel clamps attached to the angle. The other side is the same except >that it has to run up and over the battery box. As the line runs up and over the >battery box I again used adel clamps attached at the battery box base top AN3 >bolts with a couple of AN960-10 washers to space the line out far enough to >clear the big angle pieces on the bottom of the firewall. Nylon clamps were used >to secure the line at the bottom of the battery box. I drilled and tapped the >big angle pieces for a number 8 screws to hold the nylon clamps. > >Where the 90 deg. bulkhead fittings pass through the fuselage you will need a >.063" washer (made from scrap lightening holes) so that there is enough material >to tighten the nut. There is also a .165" gap between the .063" gusset plate and >the outside skin so the skin has to have a larger hole to allow the nut to sit >against the gusset plate. I found a 1 inch hole in the skin was just enough room >for the nut. To make the two sizes of holes, drill a pilot hole first. Then >using a hole saw, rota broach (sp.) or forstner bit, make the hole in the >outside skin. once this hole is made a unibit will drill a clean hole in the >gusset plate. As I recall, the inside hole is 7/16". > >So there you have it. Hope this helps > >Gary Zilik >RV-6A s/n 22993 - engine stuff, instrument stuff, flap stuff, and general all >around finishing stuff. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: VS808 spar plate curved?
Date: Apr 04, 1999
>I'm wondering if anyone has experienced an unusual looking VS808 spar >plate. >Mine has a gentle curve to it out of the box. It will flatten out on >the >work table but "springs" back leaving about 3/4" off the table at the >forked >end. Is this a concern? Could it cause some problems with the VS803 >spar >alignment. >I did have some shipping damage..my rudder skin was crunched badly on >the >top and I had bent flanges on R802PP and E602. The spars are in a >different >container then the skin so it seems as if UPS had to work very hard to >mangle 2 well packed boxes. The box with the skins was punctured twice >through the "fragile handle with care" tape. > >thx in advance for any wisdom offered > >Rob Baxter RV8 >finished emp. inventory > > This is quite normal on parts that have been CNC machine punched out of material as thick as the 0.125 VS-808. As long as their doesn't appear to be localized damage (nicks, bends in a localized area, etc. the part should be fine to use. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: new to list
Date: Apr 04, 1999
>hello everyone. >i'm in the middle of buying an rv-3a and i would appreciate any >information >that anyone one has on the rv-3a such as what to look for when >inspecting the >plane. the n number is n148cw it was built by charlie wilson up in >spokan >washington in 1994. it has a lyoc.= 0-320-e2c and ted hendrickson wood >prop. >i've only seen photo's of it so far looks very clean. will be buying >it next >weekend if all works out. i'm from new york. there are a few rv out >here on >long island but no 3's there is 2 6's flying one 8 being built and >another 6 >being built. > >thank you >dan carley > >e-mail = dfcpac(at)aol.com > > This question has been asked before, and there is a lot of stuff in the archives about what to do (and what not to do). The short version is that (particularly with an RV-3) no one should purchase an RV without having an experienced (have completed a nice example themself) builder look at it for them. With it being an RV-3 I highly recommend that you have someone who is very familiar with RV-3's do the inspection for you. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com>
Subject: new to the list
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Dan- I'm no expert, and I know more about the pre-1984 RV-3's, but I could give you some advice as to what to look for. You can call me at the below numbers if you like, or I'm attaching an email sent to the list on 3/18/99 addressing someone asking some of the same questions. I know of one builder I've talked to named Bill Saindon who is building a post-1984 RV-3 that is just installing his engine and will most likely be flying by summer, and would probably answer your questions or give you some advice as to what to look for in the newer type-II RV-3's. Bill is at for more information. Blue Skies! Rob Reece RV-3 SN45 Socorro, NM 505-835-3644 RE: Message on 3/18/99 to RV-List Steve- Make sure you know the Serial Number and/or at least the type of spar flange strips it has and try to get a building "start" date (the completion date should be on the data plate). This is crucial in knowing what mods are required and also what to look for as far as "fixes" that have been called-out over the years in the newsletters/RV-ator, etc (i.e., the fix to the engine mount for cracks in the mount/gear tubes from wheel shimmy, the change in the trim tab from the original design, etc.). The mods that are required (mainly CN-1 & CN-2) are not complicated and should not discourage you from purchasing a great aircraft. But, you REALLY need to do what Scott McDaniels suggested and take someone along that at least knows RV's, and preferably knows the -3's. I have a friend who just recently traded a '56-58(?) C-172 for a RV-3 and a pre-war Taylorcraft. When he got the -3 (which is what he really wanted out of the deal), he knew it was rough around the edges (needed paint, needed FG work, needed a new canopy, needed gearleg fairing, etc.), but it was what he didn't know that kinda bit him. When I looked at the plane, I found that the right inboard aileron attach mounting has been bent from what looked like compression stress which would indicate an overspeed or an overstress. This means that the wings need to be opened and examined at the bellcrank and bellcrank rib, and the torque tubes checked for bends, etc. Then, when I looked at the spar flanges (from what I could see of them from the gap b/t the wing and fuselage), it appeared that the builder had ground down the flanges to "fit" into the fuselage. Yikes! Also, there were small stall gates on the leading edge of the wings at the mid-wing point. They were only sticking out about a 1/2", but closer examination (it really was an optical illusion!) showed that the wing fuel tanks stuck out 1/4" past the outer skin/d-section, and the stall gate was used to "hide" this screw up, perhaps after wet wings were retro-fitted at one point or another? In addition, the -3 had flown about 40 hours with it's previous owner (and God knows how many hours prior to that?) without the bolt holding the elevators together. . .there was still untouched primer in the hole! The elevators were held on by the bearings, and moved/held together by only the torque tube/bellcrank attach bolt! Moral of the story: The -3 is an awesome airplane, that even Van himself says flies better than any of the other RV's (here we go, commence flaming), but since it was the first design it has more things to be conscious about than say a -4 or -6. Take a knowledgeable RV'er with you, preferably a -3er and look it over good, only AFTER doing your homework on what to look for. If it looks good, a good going price for a -3 is probably anywhere from about $9-25K, with a mean at about $12.5 - 16.5 for one with a O-320/160hp that needs some TLC, IMHO. Give me a call or send me an email off list if you have any specifics. I am still doing my mods to my -3, and can give you names of about 5-10 or so owners that have done the mods that you can talk to. I am also getting together info on interested builder/flyers/owners of the -3 and have an email group listing of all their emails/addresses/numbers that I am preparing to circulate. Blue skies! Rob Reece RV-3 SN45 Socorro, NM 505-835-3644 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 1999
From: Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com>
Subject: RV-4 Main Gear Nut
Hi gang, Boy, have I had a time giving my -4 its Conditional Inspection! My RV-4 was purchased from the builder with about 160 hrs. TTAF, and I have put on about 40 hrs in the past three months. It is due for it's annual so I put the electric screwdriver in reverse and dismantled it. My mechanic and I have found a zillion things to repair and modify, besides the standard replacement items. This is my first experience working on an aircraft, and I am finding it almost as rewarding as flying. I guess the trick is to have the right tools, the right know how, and the determination to set and complete each task to be done, one-by-one. The initial inspection was a shocker to me when my mechanic showed me a very long list of problems. He is short on free time after his daily 10 hr. day at the FBO, so he asked me to do most of the repairs myself (with his help and approval as I progressed). I was annoyed at this suggestion at first. I thought he would do all of the repairs. But after a week of working 10 hr. days on the A/C, I am starting to feel comfortable with this close tolerance work. Before we close her up again, I will actually install electric flaps myself. I know all you builders are laughing at me, but I really never thought I'd get into this so deeply. Last night, after a rough, but rewarding 14 hr. day on the A/C, I realized that I might be ready someday soon to build myself. Boy have I gotten off of the original subject. How do you determine the torque on the main gear axle nuts? Am I doing something wrong? I used a homemade jack to lift the axle after removal of the nut, slid the wheel off of the main axle and onto the shaft of the jack. Then I set the axle down on a block.When the bearings and brake service was completed, I reversed the steps. Now, I have a wheel on the axle and lowered to the ground. When I screw the nut in, I am also squeezing in the wheel and its bearings with the weight of the A/C on these surfaces. I am afraid to take a wrench to this set up. Do I just use elbow grease until I run out of elbow? Help!! Louis Louis I. Willig, RV-4 - N8ZZ larywil(at)home.com (610) 668-4964 Philadelphia, PA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 1999
From: Kent Ashton <kjashton(at)vnet.net>
Subject: Re: Private airstrip beaurocratic boondoggle
SportAV8R(at)aol.com wrote: > >(snip long post) has a runway that straddles two counties Wow, what an interesting question. I would think you are not breaking the law unless you actually land or takeoff on the dirt of the offended county. I think the non-approving county can regulate the dirt but not the airspace. I'd tell them to get screwed and be careful for the first year or two not to be seen rolling on the bad end of the runway. After that, I don't think anybody would care. --Kent "not a lawyer but play one on TV" Ashton ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 1999
From: "Charles P. Kuss" <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net>
Subject: Re: Don't shoot me: primer/paint
question! Dialupnet wrote: Moe, Chromate based primers are intended for use on aluminium. They are NOT recommended for ferrous (iron/steel) metals. Zinc Phosphate is for use on ferrous metals. Zinc Chromate = aluminium Zinc Phosphate = steel/iron Read the information on the can. Charlie Kuss RV8 fuel tanks Boca Raton, Fl. > Rustoleum works well on steel parts, and will protect them very well. I > don't know wbout topcoating it with anything though. If you plan on > topcoating it with something, like exterior steel parts, then use Zinc > Chromate. > Moe Colontonio > moejoe(at)dialupnet.com > Check out my RV-8 Page at: > http://tabshred.com/moe > > >> > >>> > >>>You may want to check into using "Mar-Hyde" self etching primer. It's > >light > >>>grey, comes in 19oz. spray cans & dries very fast. I just lightly scuff > >the > >>>alum. surface with the grey scotch brite pads before spraying. Both the > >>>Mar-hyde & grey scotch pads can be purchased at many automotive paint > >>>suppliers. This product is good for steel, aluminum, & stainless steel. > >>> > >>>L.Adamson RV6A fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler fire wall mount
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Mike: This subject has been discussed in great detail in the past. There are many different variables to consider. For the most part, the concensous (sp?) is don't do it. I wanted to, and had overwhealming response from others saying not to. Check out Mark LaBoyteaux's site. His has his orginal installation, and then the second. I believe Mark Fredrick (Check Six!) did the same thing. I guess it depends where you live. I live in the desert, so I have decided to put in on the baffle. Also, see Sam Buchanan's site. His has a nice installation. We will all be awaiting his test figures to see what his temps are like. The archives have alot of information on this subject. Good luck! Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://members.home.net/rv8er Finish Kit -----Original Message----- From: mheaps <mheaps(at)uniserve.com> Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 3:12 AM Subject: RV-List: Oil Cooler fire wall mount > >Has any one mounted their oil cooler on the fire wall ? an if so what >should the stand off distance be, what size scat tube, should it be a >controled flow ,any info on this application shall be greatly appreciated. > >Mike > >RV8 getting very close > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: RV-4 Main Gear Nut
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Although it is a large nut, it does not get much torque. What you are looking for is a slight Pre-load. The wheel should be jacked up free to rotate. Snug it up until it just becomes harder to turn and then back it off until you can line up the cotter key hole. The wheel should be easy to turn at this point with no bearing looseness. Do not over tighten as you will damage the bearings. It is an adjustment not a fastener type nut. Cy Galley - Editor BC Contact! Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com -----Original Message----- From: Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 10:58 PM Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Main Gear Nut > >Hi gang, > >Boy, have I had a time giving my -4 its Conditional Inspection! My RV-4 was >purchased from the builder with about 160 hrs. TTAF, and I have put on >about 40 hrs in the past three months. It is due for it's annual so I put >the electric screwdriver in reverse and dismantled it. My mechanic and I >have found a zillion things to repair and modify, besides the standard >replacement items. >This is my first experience working on an aircraft, and I am finding it >almost as rewarding as flying. I guess the trick is to have the right >tools, the right know how, and the determination to set and complete each >task to be done, one-by-one. The initial inspection was a shocker to me >when my mechanic showed me a very long list of problems. He is short on >free time after his daily 10 hr. day at the FBO, so he asked me to do most >of the repairs myself (with his help and approval as I progressed). I was >annoyed at this suggestion at first. I thought he would do all of the >repairs. But after a week of working 10 hr. days on the A/C, I am starting >to feel comfortable with this close tolerance work. Before we close her up >again, I will actually install electric flaps myself. I know all you >builders are laughing at me, but I really never thought I'd get into this >so deeply. Last night, after a rough, but rewarding 14 hr. day on the A/C, >I realized that I might be ready someday soon to build myself. > >Boy have I gotten off of the original subject. How do you determine the >torque on the main gear axle nuts? Am I doing something wrong? I used a >homemade jack to lift the axle after removal of the nut, slid the wheel off >of the main axle and onto the shaft of the jack. Then I set the axle down >on a block.When the bearings and brake service was completed, I reversed >the steps. Now, I have a wheel on the axle and lowered to the ground. When >I screw the nut in, I am also squeezing in the wheel and its bearings with >the weight of the A/C on these surfaces. I am afraid to take a wrench to >this set up. Do I just use elbow grease until I run out of elbow? Help!! > >Louis > > >Louis I. Willig, RV-4 - N8ZZ >larywil(at)home.com >(610) 668-4964 >Philadelphia, PA > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rquinn1(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 05, 1999
Subject: Re: Back riveting question
Avery sells a back rivet set Part No. 1048 for $16.75 that I have used with great results.I Purchased my back riveting plate from a steel vendor and finished it my self. The total cost for the plate was $2.75. Good Luck Rollie RV6A Fuslage on the way T ________________________________________________________________________________
From: n41va(at)Juno.com
Date: Apr 04, 1999
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler fire wall mount
Mike; I mounted my Setrab oil cooler horizontally on the firewall about 6" above where the exhaust pipes exit. I made a simple shroud out of aluminum that fits tightly over the top of the cooler in the shape of a tent with two 2" scat tubes going into the 'tent', one from each rear baffle. These scat tubes enter the 'tent' at a 45 degree angle. This unit is close enough to the bottom of the cowling air exit that I should have a 'suction' effect(due to the slipstream) that pulls the cooling air through the oil cooler, increasing air flow. With 10 hours on my RV-8, I am seeing 175 degree oil temps at OAT's of around 55-60 degrees. This should be about right, and will allow a generous margin for hotter outside temps and the resulting increase in oil temps. The redline is 245 degrees. I have no way to control the inflow of air, although if you wanted LESS air, you could simply attach a round disk over one of the scat inlets on the rear baffle. This aluminum disk could be pop riveted on one side so that you could swing it over the hole to any amount of blockage you want. By the way, I mounted the oil cooler to the firewall with rubber grommets for further vibration protection and longer oil cooler life. Von Alexander N41VA(at)juno.com > >Has any one mounted their oil cooler on the fire wall ? an if so what >should the stand off distance be, what size scat tube, should it be a >controled flow ,any info on this application shall be greatly >appreciated. > >Mike > >RV8 getting very close > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 1999
From: Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator
bramsec wrote: > > Just installed a Cessna (60amp) alternator today to my O-320 on my > RV6.However the lower cowl hits the cooling fan. I raised the alternator > as high as possible but only managed a 1/8" clearance, obviously the > wrong alternator for this aircraft. Interested to know what brands of > alternators others are using on their RV6's ? > > Regards Peter (Toronto Canada) > I would consider sticking with what you have and modifying the cowl. Several in this area, including me have had to do this even with the smaller honda, nippondensa, mitsubishi 35 amp alt, when installed on a 180 engine. You just add a bubble to the bottom cowl. It is not noticable and is not a tough project if you get it done before painting. I would shoot for a half inch clearance as a minimum, since the darn thing will come down to meet teh cowl at least a quarter inch in flight depending on g load, landing forces and turbrlence. TIn fact some theorists feel the cowl also comes up a bit in high speed flight due to positive pressure. Good luck. D WAlsh ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 1999
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
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Date: Apr 05, 1999
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
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Date: Apr 05, 1999
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
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Date: Apr 05, 1999
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
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Date: Apr 05, 1999
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
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From: "joseph.wiza" <planejoe(at)flnet.com>
Subject: Ring Gear asmbly
Date: Apr 05, 1999
I have an 0360 A1D 180 HP. The AP is installing a hertzel CSP. Here is my problem (I think) He said the ring gear (PN 71328) has the marks for dead center and 25 deg 180 deg out and has been remarked. Also said he dosent think the part nr for this starter ring is for this engine. Any great wisdom on this subject out there would be appreciated. RV6Afinish kit 3 steps forward 53 back. planejoe(at)flnet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 05, 1999
Subject: Re: Don't shoot me: primer/paint question!
In a message dated 4/4/99 7:28:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, donmack(at)flash.net writes: << Marhyde is not to be used on steel. >> Not only that, folks, but you may want to check the archives and obtain information about "conversion coatings" for steel parts. Works just like alodine to help arrest corrosion. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Ring Gear asmbly
Date: Apr 05, 1999
It might have been changed to get a different number of teeth on the starter ring. As they aren't balanced with the engine at the factory, if it fits you shouldn't have any problem other than timing. Many airplanes fly without it at all. (non-electrical) Cy Galley - Editor BC Contact! Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com -----Original Message----- From: joseph.wiza <planejoe(at)flnet.com> Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 6:32 PM Subject: RV-List: Ring Gear asmbly > >I have an 0360 A1D 180 HP. The AP is installing a hertzel CSP. Here is my >problem (I think) He said the ring gear (PN 71328) has the marks for dead >center and 25 deg 180 deg out and has been remarked. Also said he dosent >think the part nr for this starter ring is for this engine. Any great >wisdom on this subject out there would be appreciated. > >RV6Afinish kit 3 steps forward 53 back. > >planejoe(at)flnet.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 1999
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Don't shoot me: primer/paint question!
When I started on the RV-4 I was using marhyde spray cans for alum parts, ribs,etc. I later switched to zinc cromate. Now six years later I find the marhyde flaking off numberous paces but the zinc cromate is still ok. I did scuff and clean before priming. RVHI(at)aol.com wrote: > > > As far as steel & Marhyde are concerned, the can states right on the side > --- adheres to steel / aluminum/ stainless steel. Use under all primer > surfaces. Furthur down in the directions, it states---- make sure that steel > is free from rust. > > Personally I use Marhyde for quick spot priming of aluminum parts which are > all interior. The majority of my RV6A is primed with PPG two part epoxy. The > steel parts are coated with Rust-Oleum primer & paint. > > L.Adamson ---- RV6A fusalage top side > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6Russ(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 05, 1999
Subject: Re: Rv6Awings
I'm located in Spanish Fork, Utah - near Provo. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 1999
Subject: Re: Sky-tec vs B & C starters
From: b green <rvinfo(at)Juno.com>
I have been running the Skytec for about a year and a half with no problems and outstanding performance. It really cranks the engine over much faster. I use a gelled battery and it is at least 10 feet from the starter. I have been told that because the Skytec is a permanent magnet starter I wouldn't be able to use a gelled battery, but it works good so far. I chose the Skytec because the B&C interferes with the mixture control arm on fuel injected engines with the forward mounted injectors. Bruce Green > >Has anyone directly compared Sky-tec vs B & C starters??? Jim Brown, > >Matawan,NJ RV-3, O-320 > > > --- > --- > --- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Emrath" <emrath(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: VS808 spar plate curved?
Date: Apr 05, 1999
My RV-6 VS spar plate was also "warped" upon receipt. I straightened it out as best I could. I think I put it on a smooth flat surface with the warp side up (top and bottom on bottom ends on the surface) and rolled with my wife's rolling pin when she wasn't using it to beat sense into me. Straightened right out. :-) Sort of an poor mans version of the English Wheel. -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 9:06 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: VS808 spar plate curved? > > >> >>Hello Listers >>I'm wondering if anyone has experienced an unusual looking VS808 spar plate. >>Mine has a gentle curve to it out of the box. It will flatten out on the >>work table but "springs" back leaving about 3/4" off the table at the forked >>end. Is this a concern? Could it cause some problems with the VS803 spar >>alignment. >>I did have some shipping damage..my rudder skin was crunched badly on the >>top and I had bent flanges on R802PP and E602. The spars are in a different >>container then the skin so it seems as if UPS had to work very hard to >>mangle 2 well packed boxes. The box with the skins was punctured twice >>through the "fragile handle with care" tape. >> >>thx in advance for any wisdom offered >> >>Rob Baxter RV8 >>finished emp. inventory > >Hi Rob, > >Your VS808 sounds it is curved exactly the same way mine was. I >suspect they are all that way. Some kind of artifact of the way they >are made. > >It didn't take too much force to flatten it out, but it would spring >back. But, once you get everything all riveted together, that VS is >very stiff, and there is no way that the VS808 is going to give you >any problem in my humble opinion. Mind you, my VS is still hanging >on the wall, so this opinion is worth every cent you paid for it :=) > >Take care, >Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks & fuselage bulkheads) >khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home) >Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work) >http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H. Martin Sutter" <hmsutter(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Alternator
Date: Apr 05, 1999
: > > > > > Just installed a Cessna (60amp) alternator today to my O-320 on my > > RV6.However the lower cowl hits the cooling fan. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Many of the North Texas RV's are using a Ford 60 amp alternator. This unit is basically the same size as the Cessna described above (the internals are sightly different). To make it fit we are doing the following: Remove the fan and run a 3/4" blast tube from the front baffle to the fornt of the alternator or induce the air by drilling a 3/4' hole in the back of the case and attaching a fitting ot take the 3/4"tube. This cooling method is more efficient since it brings ambient air to the alternator rather than already quite hot under the cowling air. Use a pulley no larger than 3"diameter and get a drive belt that allows the alternator to be all the way up against the engine case. Glue a hard rubber block (use Pro Seal) to the inside of the cowling positioned so that the alternator case hits the rubber block before the pulley chews on the cowl. High speed can push tho cowl inward a bit and ary G-loads cause the engine to sag momentarily resulting in contact between cowl and pulley even when you have 1/2" clearance at rest. The rubber block will keep that from happening. Martin Sutter N868CM 1,350 hrs> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neil France" <nfrance(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Stall Warners
Date: Apr 05, 1999
Anthony, give us a ring on 01773 715186 about the stall warner, I should be able to sort you out. Regards Neil France. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 05, 1999
Subject: Re: the price of gas
In a message dated 4/4/99 3:45:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, RVGEM(at)aol.com writes: << That computes back to over $5 per US gallon !! >> John Guess that just goes to prove that it is definately not that hard to justify the cost of fuel if it is going into a lean, mean, flying machine. do not archive ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FLARV8N(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 05, 1999
Subject: Check Six Comes to Fla.
Hello there Rocketmen!! Mark Frederick and his Rocket is down here in Florida for this week (Wednesday and Thursday only. Friday we are heading off to Lakeland to set up for SNF.). If there are any of you out there that are teetering on buying a Rocket but not just yet sure, please let us know this week and we will see about arranging a ride for you - We have a few slots left. Call 561-748-2429. Scott Brown Mark Frederick Team Rocket, Inc. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ferdfly(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 05, 1999
Subject: Re: Prop failure/ warning
In a message dated 4/4/99 9:57:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jsflyrv(at)teleport.com writes: << Fred when you say one of those props do you mean a bent tip one like Charles had or the standard thin blade Warnke? I have had one of the early "almost constant speed props" on my 180hp RV-6 for about 7 years now and have had no problems. I really like this prop and have had better service with it than either Sensenich or Pacesetter. Jerry Springer|RV-6 flying since 1989|Hillsboro, OR| jsflyrv(at)teleport.com >> Jerry, I talked to my friend today, he broke not one , but two of them . He described them having a thin scimitar blade. Warnke then shipped him a more conventional prop which held up fine. Fred LaForge RV-4--180 CS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil Sisson" <sisson-@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Compression tester
Date: Apr 05, 1999
Also look in Sport Aviation, page 106, July 1996. This has a very good description of the Diff. comp. tester. It lists all parts as well. Phil at Litchfield, IL Pitts S1S, N1GB RV6 underway -----Original Message----- From: donspawn(at)Juno.com <donspawn(at)Juno.com> Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 3:33 PM Subject: RV-List: Compression tester > > Later, having talked with a >>friend, I found there may be something more to it than just valves, >>guages and hoses. Maybe an orfice in the picture? >>Could someone explain how to put a compression tester together? >> >>Thanks, Tom Barnes -6 canopy >> > >Try page 460 of Airframe & powerplant Machanics powerplant handbook. > >need a .040 inch hole below I think 1000 in cube & .060 for over. > > >Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Delker" <ccd(at)flash.net>
Date: Apr 05, 1999
I'm planning on beginning a homebuilt project within the next few months, and have narrowed my choice of airplanes to the RV-6a and the GlaStar - though leaning heavily towards the RV-6a. One concern I have about the RV-6a is the useful load, as I plan to do a great deal of cross-country with 2 people and baggage. According to factory specs from the Van's website, the useful load with full fuel would be a bit under 440 lbs., which would be (just barely!) adequate. Two questions I have concerning this issue are: 1) How realistic is it to expect the completed airplane to be close to the published empty weight of 985 lbs.? (At this point I expect I would equip the airplane for day/night VFR, with a Lyc. O-320 with a metal prop) 2) Is it difficult to load an RV-6a to the full gross weight of 1650 lbs. without exceeding aft CG limits? I realize that both of these questions are highly dependent upon actual equipment/configuration, but I would consider any real-world experiences concerning these issues to be invaluable input towards making a decision. Thanks! Chris Delker ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 05, 1999
Subject: Re: Private airstrip beaurocratic boondoggle
Just to update everyone- I met with _the man_ today; he seemed cordial but determined. If I was ever going to use my airstrip without looking over my shoulder all the time, I was going to have to register the last 600 feet of overrun in his court house, his way. He didn't want to make any exceptions because he didn't want "the next guy planning an airstrip" in his jurisdiction to say they had let me off the hook, so why not him. And he wanted to "protect" me from the possibility that one day someone else might hassle me about the airstrip (I really had to bite my tongue at this point!) so he wanted all the T's crossed and all the I's dotted so no one would be able to give me any grief. It was apparent that he thought he was from the government and he was there to help me, but we had to do it his way. Actually, I suspect he was on an extended power trip; maybe even a cross-country. On the bright side, he indicated every likelihood that my application would be favorably received. I'm sure my money will. I discovered today that the grass seed I just bought for the runway was not $2.63 a pound as the farmers' co-op had quoted last month, but instead just a buck a pound. The savings on 200# of bluegrass seed will equal the fees that "County B" wants to charge me for their rubber stamp of approval... once again, God provides! Thanks to everyone who responded. I got many off-list replies and lots of encouragement. I think the outcome here is about as good as one can hope for unless one hopes to fight city hall and win. Perhaps, when all my paperwork is safely in hand, I can mount a legal reform campaign to make the country safe for pilots, who as property owners face discrimination from local governments because their favorite sort of motor vehicle is capable of flight. I look at it this way: the Feds pre-emptively regulate all aspects of flight, and while on the ground a plane is just a motor vehicle like a tractor or a 4-wheeler. If farmers had to get county permission to operate those, there would be open rebellion! We have the laws we permit them to foist upon us, and we lose the rights and privileges we let them take. Regards to all, -Bill B That government governs best which governs least. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re:
Date: Apr 06, 1999
> >I'm planning on beginning a homebuilt project within the next few months, >and have narrowed my choice of airplanes to the RV-6a and the GlaStar - >though leaning heavily towards the RV-6a. One concern I have about the >RV-6a is the useful load, as I plan to do a great deal of cross-country with >2 people and baggage. > >According to factory specs from the Van's website, the useful load with full >fuel would be a bit under 440 lbs., which would be (just barely!) adequate. >Two questions I have concerning this issue are: > >1) How realistic is it to expect the completed airplane to be close to the >published empty weight of 985 lbs.? (At this point I expect I would equip >the airplane for day/night VFR, with a Lyc. O-320 with a metal prop) unlikely to the point of impossible. I built an RV-6 with a 150 HP engine and wood prop. Without paint, it weighed 975 pounds. The panel was a panel similiar to what you describe. > >2) Is it difficult to load an RV-6a to the full gross weight of 1650 lbs. >without exceeding aft CG limits? > Your metal prop will help keep your CG forward. That figure of 1650 is 'suggested' by the factory. I have seen RV-6's and RV-6A's with an increased gross weight. Ask Van's for info on that or check with local builders. Personally, I flew mine with up to 1750 pounds but you have to limit the "G's" you pull and land 'carefully'. I seem to recall that one of the factory ships had a gross weight of 1700 pounds; I asked if it was built any different, answer was no. >I realize that both of these questions are highly dependent upon actual >equipment/configuration, but I would consider any real-world experiences >concerning these issues to be invaluable input towards making a decision. > >Thanks! > >Chris Delker > John Ammeter Seattle WA USA 1975 Jensen Healey RV-6 (sold 4/98) EAA Technical Counselor NRA Life Member ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bjnash(at)soundproofing.org (BJ Nash)
Subject: Re: Ring Gear asmbly
Date: Apr 06, 1999
> >I have an 0360 A1D 180 HP. The AP is installing a hertzel CSP. Here is my >problem (I think) He said the ring gear (PN 71328) has the marks for dead >center and 25 deg 180 deg out and has been remarked. Also said he dosent >think the part nr for this starter ring is for this engine. Any great >wisdom on this subject out there would be appreciated. Timing of a ring gear is easily marked with a punch. Sounds like the AP is being overly critical at your potential HIGH expense, creating a problem. ("Well, we wouldn't want to put the WRONG gear on, of course!") I'd be very wary of any expensive advice he'd give. Visit our web site at http://www.soundproofing.org for soundproofing info! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 1999
From: Judy and Graham Murphy <jgmurphy(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Bench For C Frame Tool
Folks The instructions from Cleaveland for their C-Frame tool specifies a bench 36inches deep by 48 inches wide. I am proposing to use an existing bench 34inches deep (but plent wide). Does anybody know whether this slightly narrower bench will matter ? Thanks in advance Graham M Getting workshop ready for -6A still enroute to NZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N426BBRV(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Subject: Re:
Chris, There is a GlassStar in the hanger directly across from my hanger. We have an RV4, an RV6, and an RV6A in my hangar. I could write several pages on which one I would pick to build but I will make it short and sweet. Opt for the RV. You will never regret it. There is no comparison in my opinion between the two. You speak of doing a lot of cross country flying. Look at the speeds between the two planes in question. That should give you a good idea of what you will be getting in each plane One more thing. The RV will carry all you can load in it and still stay within CG. Bill B. N426BB 325 hrs. Houston, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Subject: Re: RV6A Gross Weight and Balance
In a message dated 4/5/99 8:45:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ccd(at)flash.net writes: << 1) How realistic is it to expect the completed airplane to be close to the published empty weight of 985 lb..? (At this point I expect I would equip the airplane for day/night VFR, with a Lyc. O-320 with a metal prop)>> Unlikely that you will come in this low. But hope springs eternal. This is going to be one bare assed bird. You could call it Gypsy Rose. without exceeding aft CG limits?>> Not at all. I loaded my 6A (1160 lb empty O-360 , c/s, w/all the bells and whistles) during the testing phase to my published gross weight of 1900 lb (full fuel, me at 182 lb, my buddy at 230 lb and 100 lb of sand in the baggage area) and was still 1.200" in front of the aft limit. It stalled just fine at 60 mph no flaps, recovered normally and landed like it didn't know the difference. Of course no acro and it only climbed at 1500 fpm. In this configuration, as fuel burns to nothing the cg moves aft by 0.75". Flying with empty tanks is unlikely since I would be illegally low on fuel but still ahead of the aft limit. You can download my POH with all the pertinent (and even some impertinent) info from either Tim Lewis' or Mitch Faatz' website. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Bench For C Frame Tool
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Should be ok. Mine is 32 inches by 8 feet. With the narrower table top you will need to place the C-frame at an angle instead of perpendicular to the table. No big deal. Stephen Soule Huntington, Vermont -----Original Message-----The instructions from Cleaveland for their C-Frame tool specifies a bench 36inches deep by 48 inches wide. I am proposing to use an existing bench 34inches deep (but plent wide). Does anybody know whether this slightly narrower bench will matter ? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Subject: Re: Check Six Comes to Fla.
WHERE IN FLA? SCOTT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Subject: Facet Fuel Pump
Date: Apr 06, 1999
I decided to start my Aero Sport O-360 for the first time last night. I don't have the wings mounted on my 6 at this time so I rigged up a plastic tube adapted to the fuselage fuel fittings. The plastic tube was stuck in a one gallon gas can. When I turned on the facet fuel pump to get fuel in the system, I was very unimpressed with how well it was sucking. It took a long time to get any fuel in the system. The pump only wanted to suck the fuel an inch or two up the clear tube. The gas can was at the same level as the fuselage fittings. While I had a fresh battery I was finally able to start the engine with the help of the engine driven fuel pump. When my plastic tube shifted around and came out of the fuel can I lost my prime and was unable to regain it. At this point the facet wasn't able to suck the fuel uphill even an inch. I never did get any fuel pressure indication. The facet banged around like crazy and loaded down for those brief moments there was fuel in it. Surely this isn't right. I read in the archives that these pumps are super reliable and this is the new one that was in my kit but I can't figure out what might be wrong except a bad pump. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6Q N441LP Inspection scheduled April 22. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "joseph.wiza" <planejoe(at)flnet.com>
Subject: Ring gear
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Thanks for the info all, the AP has rearanged the thought process. Do not archieve RV6A/finish kit planejoe(at)flnet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Bench For C Frame Tool
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Do not have to angle if you can let the frame hang out the back of the table. -----Original Message----- From: Stephen J. Soule <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 4:40 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Bench For C Frame Tool > >Should be ok. Mine is 32 inches by 8 feet. With the narrower table top you >will need to place the C-frame at an angle instead of perpendicular to the >table. No big deal. > >Stephen Soule >Huntington, Vermont > > -----Original Message-----The instructions from Cleaveland >for their C-Frame tool specifies a > bench 36inches deep by 48 inches wide. I am proposing to >use an > existing bench 34inches deep (but plent wide). Does anybody >know whether > this slightly narrower bench will matter ? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pump
Date: Apr 06, 1999
I think that the Facet pump is not a sucker but a pusher. It needs to be down low compared to the fuel level. -----Original Message----- From: Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 8:59 AM Subject: RV-List: Facet Fuel Pump > >I decided to start my Aero Sport O-360 for the first time last night. > >I don't have the wings mounted on my 6 at this time so I rigged up a plastic >tube adapted to the fuselage fuel fittings. The plastic tube was stuck in a >one gallon gas can. > >When I turned on the facet fuel pump to get fuel in the system, I was very >unimpressed with how well it was sucking. It took a long time to get any >fuel in the system. The pump only wanted to suck the fuel an inch or two up >the clear tube. The gas can was at the same level as the fuselage fittings. > >While I had a fresh battery I was finally able to start the engine with the >help of the engine driven fuel pump. When my plastic tube shifted around >and came out of the fuel can I lost my prime and was unable to regain it. > >At this point the facet wasn't able to suck the fuel uphill even an inch. > >I never did get any fuel pressure indication. > >The facet banged around like crazy and loaded down for those brief moments >there was fuel in it. > >Surely this isn't right. I read in the archives that these pumps are super >reliable and this is the new one that was in my kit but I can't figure out >what might be wrong except a bad pump. > >Larry Pardue >Carlsbad, NM > >RV-6Q N441LP Inspection scheduled April 22. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 1999
From: Don D Gates <dgates(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Sun N Fun -- get together??
Hi everyone, I'm planning on attending Sun N Fun, flying commercial out there for a week. *Really* looking forward to it! I was wondering if there is a dinner or get together or whatever planned for the RV-List folks that may be coming? If so, where / when? If not, want to try and set up a time / place to meet at least and then see where the four winds take us? I'd prefer it to be early in the ween, Monday or Tuesday, as I'm heading down to visit my brother later in the week -- ya gotta fish! Talk to ya... Don Gates PS -- I'm going to hit the SNF site and see if there is a good spot to meet. Maybe Van's tent? Hmm.... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pump
Date: Apr 06, 1999
> >I decided to start my Aero Sport O-360 for the first time last night. > >I don't have the wings mounted on my 6 at this time so I rigged up a plastic >tube adapted to the fuselage fuel fittings. The plastic tube was stuck in a >one gallon gas can. > >When I turned on the facet fuel pump to get fuel in the system, I was very >unimpressed with how well it was sucking. It took a long time to get any >fuel in the system. The pump only wanted to suck the fuel an inch or two up >the clear tube. The gas can was at the same level as the fuselage fittings. > >While I had a fresh battery I was finally able to start the engine with the >help of the engine driven fuel pump. When my plastic tube shifted around >and came out of the fuel can I lost my prime and was unable to regain it. > >At this point the facet wasn't able to suck the fuel uphill even an inch. > >I never did get any fuel pressure indication. > >The facet banged around like crazy and loaded down for those brief moments >there was fuel in it. > >Surely this isn't right. I read in the archives that these pumps are super >reliable and this is the new one that was in my kit but I can't figure out >what might be wrong except a bad pump. > >Larry Pardue >Carlsbad, NM Larry, For what it's worth, I posted a question about the same pump recently. Those things make one HELLUVA racket! I haven't run any fuel through mine yet, so who knows what will happen. Just the mere noise it made when dry makes me wonder if it's getting ready to grenade itself or something. I'll be interested to see the responses to your post. Brian in Albuquerque. RV-8 #379 engine and finish kit on the way. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Jeff Ludwig's RV-8 pictures
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Greetings listers, I just posted pictures of Jeff Ludwig's shiny new RV-8 on my web page. Another -8 takes to the skies! Check out the pics at: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9656/jeff.html Brian Denk RV-8 #379 finish kit here. Engine almost here! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 1999
From: Todd <tmrv6(at)pop.erols.com>
Subject: Re: LSE Plasma CDI System
Jon, I installed the CDI in my -6 O-320 160 HP last fall. I used the flywheel/sensor type of system. The installation of the sensors was quite involved and I used a dividing head with my milling machine to drill the holes in the flywheel.. The drilling and tapping of the engine wasn't too bad. I think I would recommend the magneto mounted Hall Effect installation. The .0025 degrees of backlash in the gears : " ) probably won't effect the normal flier (not racing). Now for the goodies. I can idle my engine down to 500 RPM with a wooden prop. No more fouled plugs. I can lean the engine past peak EGT with no roughness(carburated engine). About 1/2 - 1 gallon per hour less fuel burn, depending on conditions (I have fuel flow). All in all it just runs smoother. Will it pay for itself? Maybe, but probably not. I feel that all of the above will be enough of a return. Hope this helps. Jon El -- Todd tmrv6(at)erols.com RV-6 N92TM Flying in Southern MD ford wrote: > > Does anyone out there in cyber-land have any experience with Klaus > Savier's newest Plasma CDI system? I was just browsing their web-site > and was quite impressed with the specs and design of the system. As > someone who spends 9 hours a day working with the cutting edge > automotive systems on today's newest cars, I was glad to see such an > advanced system addressing this sadly-lacking area of aviation - the > ignition system. > > Any thoughts or experiences? I'm quite a ways away from engine work on > my plane at this point, but I just really liked what I saw. > > Jon Elford > RV6 #25201 > Ailerons/Flaps....Preparing for fuselage > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 1999
From: rfiler(at)glenvan.glenayre.com (Rory Filer [4438])
Subject: Lawsuit Against Vans Aircraft!?
Hi I've carefully scanned the last four days' messages and haven't seen a reference to this (in the subject line). So I'm posting it. Here's a short article - excerpted verbatim - from "Aviation Trader" news April 1999, Volume 7, Number 4. This publication is freely available at most airports and flying schools. I picked mine up at a local FBO here in Vancouver. ------------------------- Beginning of Article ------------------------- LAW SUIT FILED AGAINST VAN'S AIRCRAFT A multi-million dollar lawsuit has been filed against Van's Aircraft and owner Richard VanGrunsven by the family of John Morgan, who was killed in the crash of the RV-8 production prototype (N58RV) in Ripley Calif. last May 24th. The suit, filed in federal district court, claims negligence in the design and construction of the RV-8. It was filed by Morgan's widow and two children. They are each asking $4 million in damages. Morgan, 53, an experience pilot employed by Van's, was demonstrating the RV-8 to prospective kit buyer Lawrence Hull. A witness reported hearing the engine rev. then seeing the left wing separate and the RV-8 crash nose-first into the ground. ----------------------- End of article --------------------------------- This is obviously relevant to this newsgroup. I was surprised to note that it was the family of the pilot, not the passenger, who filed the suit. According to the article, they are claiming that there was negligence in the design and construction. Perhaps this will save the day for Van. All the testing they've done has proven the design to be reliable. OTOH, we're talking about lawyers here..... ----------------------------- Rory Filer - Glenayre R&D (My opinions, not my employer's) Vancouver, B.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com>
Subject: Re:
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Chris, If cost is not a factor and you don't mind going a bit slower the GlaStar is a good choice. The real difference in my mind is if you want to use floats or not. I originally opted for a Glastar as vs. a second RV. After taking advantage of the specials Stoddard-Hamilton had to offer the Glastar still costs a bunch of money. In the end I did not want to loose the aerobatics capability of the RV and did not want to spend 2 X the cost of an RV so I opted to go with an RV-4. Much less expensive to build and the user group is the best support group bar none. I know other aircraft builders monitor this list for tips as well. If your careful you can build an RV-6 light enough leaving enough baggage capacity to meet your needs. ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Delker <ccd(at)flash.net> Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 10:21 PM > > I'm planning on beginning a homebuilt project within the next few months, > and have narrowed my choice of airplanes to the RV-6a and the GlaStar - > though leaning heavily towards the RV-6a. One concern I have about the > RV-6a is the useful load, as I plan to do a great deal of cross-country with > 2 people and baggage. > > According to factory specs from the Van's website, the useful load with full > fuel would be a bit under 440 lbs., which would be (just barely!) adequate. > Two questions I have concerning this issue are: > > 1) How realistic is it to expect the completed airplane to be close to the > published empty weight of 985 lbs.? (At this point I expect I would equip > the airplane for day/night VFR, with a Lyc. O-320 with a metal prop) > > 2) Is it difficult to load an RV-6a to the full gross weight of 1650 lbs. > without exceeding aft CG limits? > > I realize that both of these questions are highly dependent upon actual > equipment/configuration, but I would consider any real-world experiences > concerning these issues to be invaluable input towards making a decision. > > Thanks! > > Chris Delker > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dscott33(at)yybecker22.ca
Date: Apr 07, 1999
Subject: Search Engine Registration adv
I saw your listing on the internet. I work for a company that submits websites to search engines. We can submit your website to over 350 of the worlds best search engines and directories for a one time charge of only $39.95. If you would like to put your website in the fast lane and receive more traffic call me on our toll-free number listed below. All work is verified! Sincerely, Mike Davidson (888) 892-7537 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: A9mbbear(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Subject: Re: Don't shoot me: primer/paint question!
Hello I found a 'Zynolyte' product at the hardware store called Zinc Coat Primer, claims to simulate galvanizing on steel and iron and contains epoxy. I tried it on a few steel parts after the proper acid wash (dupont 5717s), it seems to work well. What does anyone have to say about this? As background, I acid wash and alodine all aluminum parts. I have tried mar-hyde on top along with tempo zinc oxide with mixed results. I may not be alodining properly. Mike Barrow Reno,Nv EAA1073 Truckee,Cal. Jigging fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charlie Kearns" <kearns(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: Sun N Fun -- get together??
Date: Apr 06, 1999
A lot of us will be at Van's Banquet on Tuesday night. -----Original Message----- From: Don D Gates <dgates(at)rocketmail.com> Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 10:51 AM Subject: RV-List: Sun N Fun -- get together?? > >Hi everyone, > >I'm planning on attending Sun N Fun, flying >commercial out there for a week. *Really* looking >forward to it! > I was wondering if there is a dinner or get together >or whatever planned for the RV-List folks that may be >coming? If so, where / when? If not, want to try and >set up a time / place to meet at least and then see >where the four winds take us? > >I'd prefer it to be early in the ween, Monday or >Tuesday, as I'm heading down to visit my brother >later in the week -- ya gotta fish! > >Talk to ya... >Don Gates > >PS -- I'm going to hit the SNF site and see if there >is a good spot to meet. Maybe Van's tent? Hmm.... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: RV-6A "New" Nose Gear
Date: Apr 06, 1999
I decided to put on the new/improved/stronger RV-6A nose gear just to be on the safe side. (40% stronger) Today Van's notified me my turn on the waiting list had come up. Here's something I didn't know: You have to either drill the mounting hole yourself, or send the old nose gear leg to Van's for duplicate drilling. In itself this is not a big deal, only I sure hate to put the airplane out of service for a couple of weeks! Van's folks say they will give 3-day turnaround. It's just the darn shipping delays that are pain. Just thought others would like to know. FWIW RV-6A Salida, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "G. A. Loeffler" <irlgmbh(at)okay.net>
Subject: Re: Search Engine Registration adv
Date: Apr 06, 1999
NO SPAM PLEASE -----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- Von: Dscott33(at)yybecker22.ca An: websiteuser22(at)yxybecker.22.ca Datum: Dienstag, 6. April 1999 20:38 Betreff: RV-List: Search Engine Registration adv Dscott33(at)yybecker22.ca | | |I saw your listing on the internet. I work |for a company that submits websites to search |engines. We can submit your website to over |350 of the worlds best search engines and |directories for a one time charge of only |$39.95. If you would like to put your |website in the fast lane and receive more |traffic call me on our toll-free number |listed below. | |All work is verified! | |Sincerely, | |Mike Davidson |(888) 892-7537 | | | | | +--------------------------------------- ----------------------------------- | The RV-List is sponsored by Matronics, makers of fine Aircraft | Avionics, and by the generous Contributions of List members. | +--------------------------------------- ----------------------------------- | Matronics: http://www.matronics.com | RV-List: http://www.matronics.com/rv-list | List Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe | Archive Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search | Archive Browsing: http://www.matronics.com/archives http://www.matronics.com/contribution | Other Email Lists: http://www.matronics.com/other | +--------------------------------------- ----------------------------------- | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FLARV8N(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Subject: Re: Check Six Comes to Fla.
In a message dated 4/6/99 9:06:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ABAYMAN(at)aol.com writes: << WHERE IN FLA? SCOTT >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FLARV8N(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Subject: Re: Check Six Comes to Fla.
In a message dated 4/6/99 9:06:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ABAYMAN(at)aol.com writes: << WHERE IN FLA? SCOTT >> Mark is in Jupiter Fla., By Palm Beach. Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FLARV8N(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Subject: Re: Check Six Comes to Fla.
In a message dated 4/6/99 9:06:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ABAYMAN(at)aol.com writes: << WHERE IN FLA? SCOTT >> Mark is in Jupiter Fla., By Palm Beach. Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FLARV8N(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Subject: Re: Check Six Comes to Fla.
In a message dated 4/6/99 9:06:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ABAYMAN(at)aol.com writes: << WHERE IN FLA? SCOTT >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FLARV8N(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Subject: Re: Check Six Comes to Fla.
In a message dated 4/6/99 9:06:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ABAYMAN(at)aol.com writes: << WHERE IN FLA? SCOTT >> Mark is in Jupiter Fla., By Palm Beach. Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FLARV8N(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Subject: Re: Check Six Comes to Fla.
In a message dated 4/6/99 9:06:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ABAYMAN(at)aol.com writes: << WHERE IN FLA? SCOTT >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pump
> When I turned on the facet fuel pump to get fuel in the system, I was very > unimpressed with how well it was sucking. It took a long time to get any > fuel in the system. The pump only wanted to suck the fuel an inch or two > up the clear tube. The gas can was at the same level as the fuselage > fittings. It's been several months since I did the same experiment. As I recall, my Facet pump was able to pull fuel from a container on the ground up to the pump, and on to the engine. It makes a TERRIBLE noise until it has fuel in the pump, then it quiets down nicely. My facet pump, by itself, produced acceptable fuel pressure indication without the engine running, as I recall. Tim _+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_ Tim Lewis N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023, engine completed and tested Springfield VA http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a timrv6a(at)iname.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 1999
From: Bob Paulovich <jonkarl(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: hs 610-614 6 degree bend
having heck of a time getting an exact 6. with protractror both look good but by standing back and looking they just don't look even. i did notice one bend has just a slight twist look (in sunlight) at the point of bend. am i being too picky?? i tried and tried to find the error but... perhaps there is not one. suggestions?? bob in arkansas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 1999
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re:
Chris, At the risk of offending non-RV folks monitoring the list I would highly recommend the RV6 over a Glastar, especially if you're a first time builder. Besides being twice as expensive as a RV6 or 6A, it is a much more difficult kit to build. In my opinion, there are a lot of things on the Glastar kit that are not very well thought out and some things that are just not very desirable. If both kits were the same cost, I'd still go with the RV. I believe it represents a much better value and the RV kit will be a lot easier for a first time builder. BTW, I've been involved in the construction of both kits (and a Glasair before those.) Bob Skinner RV-6 460 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com >I'm planning on beginning a homebuilt project within the next few months, >and have narrowed my choice of airplanes to the RV-6a and the GlaStar - >though leaning heavily towards the RV-6a. >Chris Delker ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 1999
From: Tom Barnes <skytop(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: RV-6A "New" Nose Gear
Duplicating the hole sounds like a standard machine shop setup exercise. You should ask Van if this is true. Tom Barnes -----Original Message----- From: John W. Fasching <fasching(at)amigo.net> Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 2:51 PM Subject: RV-List: RV-6A "New" Nose Gear > >I decided to put on the new/improved/stronger RV-6A nose gear just to be on >the safe side. (40% stronger) Today Van's notified me my turn on the >waiting list had come up. Here's something I didn't know: You have to either >drill the mounting hole yourself, or send the old nose gear leg to Van's for >duplicate drilling. In itself this is not a big deal, only I sure hate to >put the airplane out of service for a couple of weeks! Van's folks say they >will give 3-day turnaround. It's just the darn shipping delays that are >pain. Just thought others would like to know. >FWIW >RV-6A >Salida, CO > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 1999
From: bramsec <bramsec(at)idirect.com>
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pump
Tim Lewis wrote: > > > When I turned on the facet fuel pump to get fuel in the system, I was very > > unimpressed with how well it was sucking. It took a long time to get any > > fuel in the system. The pump only wanted to suck the fuel an inch or two > > up the clear tube. The gas can was at the same level as the fuselage > > fittings. > The manual with the pump says it has a lift of 18 inches. That is, self priming up to 18 inches. Regards Peter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 1999
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re:
Chris, At the risk of offending non-RV folks monitoring the list I would highly recommend the RV6 over a Glastar, especially if you're a first time builder. Besides being twice as expensive as a RV6 or 6A, it is a much more difficult kit to build. In my opinion, there are a lot of things on the Glastar kit that are not very well thought out and some things that are just not very desirable. If both kits were the same cost, I'd still go with the RV. I believe it represents a much better value and the RV kit will be a lot easier for a first time builder. BTW, I've been involved in the construction of both kits (and a Glasair before those.) Bob Skinner RV-6 460 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com >I'm planning on beginning a homebuilt project within the next few months, >and have narrowed my choice of airplanes to the RV-6a and the GlaStar - >though leaning heavily towards the RV-6a. >Chris Delker ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re:
Date: Apr 06, 1999
>Chris, > > At the risk of offending non-RV folks monitoring the list I would >highly >recommend the RV6 over a Glastar, especially if you're a first time >builder. >Besides being twice as expensive as a RV6 or 6A, it is a much more >difficult >kit to build. In my opinion, there are a lot of things on the Glastar >kit >that are not very well thought out and some things that are just not >very >desirable. > If both kits were the same cost, I'd still go with the RV. I >believe it >represents a much better value and the RV kit will be a lot easier for >a >first time builder. > BTW, I've been involved in the construction of both kits (and a >Glasair >before those.) > >Bob Skinner RV-6 460 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com > > Though I realize it is not a direct apples to apples comparison (an old Glasair/Lancair story some of you may know about), I have seen a lot of people trying to decide between an RV-6A and a Glastar decide on the RV-6A during demo flights at Oshkosh when the following happens... With the constant out and back flights being done by many of the kit manufacturers it is not uncommon to end up at the runway directly behind another companies demo plane. With the reduced separation that is going on during the fly-in we get cleared for take-off only 10 to 15 seconds behind the other airplane. I can't count the # of times that on climb out I have been 300 to 400 feet above a Glastar as I pass them with probably a 20 to 25 mph speed advantage. Of course it is only coincidence that I usually have to pass on the left so that the demo flight passenger has a good view of Glastar as we go by. :-) Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lenleg(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Subject: Re: VS808 spar plate curved?
Rob: 3/4" sounds like a lot. I received my in the last couple of months and have just installed it this week. It had about 1/4" bend in it. Smoothed right out when riveted . Len ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 1999
From: Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com>
Subject: Re: Laser levels
> Whew, I'm glad I'm not the only one who's wife thinks this RV project costs > "A LOT" One needs to plan ahead - when I met my wife, our second date was to an airshow, the third was to go flying if I recall correctly.... that was thirteen years ago. Alex Peterson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 1999
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From: Parr <rrparr(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Fwd: Church Kids Say the Darndest Things
>From: TEDBOB5(at)aol.com >Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:25:28 EST >Subject: Fwd: Church Kids Say the Darndest Things >To: JTDEVINEY(at)enid.com, Gail1125(at)aol.com, RRPARR(at)ionet.net, > Landers(at)kimball.com, rowem(at)intellisys.net, MSAHOB(at)aol.com, > PCLUNE(at)webtv.com, SN1724(at)aol.com, SSLEE(at)neto.com, Srjaxson(at)aol.com, > SGROSSOEHMIG(at)mail.datasys.net, PEBERHART(at)aol.com >Reply-To: TEDBOB5(at)aol.com > > >Return-path: Prndeb(at)aol.com >From: Prndeb(at)aol.com >Full-name: Prndeb >Message-ID: >Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:04:14 EST >Subject: Fwd: Church Kids Say the Darndest Things >To: tbrbnvi(at)pacbell.net, sprunger(at)netusa1.net, TEDBOB5(at)aol.com, > clcoffey(at)wcic.cioe.com, alohaemma(at)worldnet.att.net, > oompaloompas(at)sprintmail.com, judy-jim(at)juno.com >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 11 >Reply-To: Prndeb(at)aol.com > > >Return-path: HLSClown(at)aol.com >From: HLSClown(at)aol.com >Full-name: HLSClown >Message-ID: >Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:23:34 EST >Subject: Fwd: Church Kids Say the Darndest Things >To: shadeanna(at)juno.com, Prndeb(at)aol.com, DHillLeom(at)aol.com, gsdeon(at)monad.net, > JMNCSNDL(at)aol.com, JJBAUTISTA(at)aol.com, DenaLogs(at)aol.com, > ajbement(at)rebel.ticz.com, a.l.henry(at)juno.com >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 >Reply-To: HLSClown(at)aol.com > > >Return-path: LGilchrest(at)aol.com >From: LGilchrest(at)aol.com >Full-name: LGilchrest >Message-ID: >Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:28:25 EST >Subject: Church Kids Say the Darndest Things >To: kathryn.wolcott(at)millipore.com, mjertaylor(at)msn.com, silcon(at)psouth.net, > SShel97667(at)aol.com, JMRuiter(at)aol.com, HLSClown(at)aol.com, > GLN36(at)webtv.net, mumjay(at)capecod.net, sgjacobs(at)webtv.net, > hel-moe(at)juno.com, DRMCHAFFIN(at)aol.com >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 >Reply-To: LGilchrest(at)aol.com > > > Church Kids Say The Darndest Things > >One Sunday in a Midwest city a young child was "acting up" during the >morning worship hour. The parents did their best to maintain some sense of >order in the pew but were losing the battle. Finally the father picked the >little fellow up and walked sternly up the aisle on his way out. Just before >reaching the safety of the foyer the little one called loudly to the >congregation, "Pray for me! Pray for me!" > >A daddy was listening to his child say his prayer "Dear Harold". At this, >dad interrupted and said, "Wait a minute, "How come you called God, >"Harold"? The little boy looked up and said, "That's what they call Him in >church. You know the prayer we say, "Our Father, who art in Heaven, Harold >be Thy name." > >And this particular four-year-old prayed: "And forgive us our trash baskets >as we forgive those who put trash in our baskets." > >During the minister's prayer one Sunday, there was a loud whistle from one >of the back pews. Gary's mother was horrified. She pinched him into silence, >and after church, asked: "Gary, whatever made you do such a thing?" Gary >answered soberly: "I asked God to teach me to whistle... And He just then >did!" > >One night Mike's parents overheard this prayer. "Now I lay me down to rest, >and hope to pass tomorrow's test, if I should die before I wake, that's one >less test I have to take." > >A five-year-old said grace at family dinner one night. "Dear God, thank you >for these pancakes." When he concluded, his parents asked him why he thanked >God for pancakes when they were having chicken. He smiled and said, "I >thought I'd see if He was paying attention tonight." > >A little boy's prayer. "Dear God, please take care of my daddy and my mommy >and my sister and my brother and my doggy and me. Oh, please take care of >yourself, God. If anything happens to you, we're gonna be in a big mess." > >A rabbi said to a precocious six-year-old boy: "So your mother says your >prayers for you each night? Very commendable. What does she say?" The little >boy replied, "Thank God he's in bed!" > >A woman invited some people to dinner. At the table, she turned to her >six-year-old daughter and said, "Would you like to say the blessing?" I >wouldn't know what to say," the little girl replied. "Just say what you hear >Mommy say, " the mother said. The little girl bowed her head and said, "Dear >Lord, why on earth did I invite all these people to dinner?" > >Johnny had been misbehaving and was sent to his room. After a while he >emerged and informed his mother that he had thought it over and then said a >prayer. "Fine," said the pleased mother. "If you ask God to help you not >misbehave, He will help you." "Oh, I didn't ask Him to help me not >misbehave," said Johnny. "I asked Him to help you put up with me." > >A little boy was overheard praying: "Lord, if You can't make me a better >boy, don't worry about it. I'm having a real good time like I am! > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pump
In a message dated 4/6/99 8:35:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cgalley(at)accessus.net writes: << It needs to be down low compared to the fuel level. >> Question If this is so, does that mean that RV's all have the Facet pump lower than the wing tanks? If not, I would think that it would cause problems being used as a boost pump. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pump
Date: Apr 06, 1999
>> When I turned on the facet fuel pump to get fuel in the system, I was very >> unimpressed with how well it was sucking. It took a long time to get any >> fuel in the system. The pump only wanted to suck the fuel an inch or two >> up the clear tube. The gas can was at the same level as the fuselage >> fittings. >It's been several months since I did the same experiment. As I recall, >my Facet pump was able to pull fuel from a container on the ground up >to the pump, and on to the engine. It makes a TERRIBLE noise until it >has fuel in the pump, then it quiets down nicely. My facet pump, by >itself, produced acceptable fuel pressure indication without the engine >running, as I recall. >Tim I tried it again tonight. The pump works fine when it is primed and produces about 4 psi but it will absolutely not self-prime which gives me pause because I can think of several situations where the pump could lose its prime, like inverted flight or running a tank dry. It will not even pull fuel an inch up the tube with a small gas can sitting on the floor. There seems to by a real split of opinion as to whether it should be able to do this and to further confuse things my engine driven pump will not do it either with the engine running at 1200 rpm. Van's has offered to replace the pump but I hate to do that until I am sure mine is defective. I am leaning toward just waiting till the wings are mounted again and seeing how it works that way. It is hard for me to see the difference though as the vertical lift to the top of the 1 gallon gas can is about the same as the lift to the fuel selector. Thanks for the opinions, Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6Q Inspection scheduled 4/22 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 1999
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From: Parr <rrparr(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Fwd: Homeless Man
>From: TEDBOB5(at)aol.com >Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 21:08:45 EST >Subject: Fwd: Homeless Man >To: TEng33(at)aol.com, Morrow01(at)aol.com, Gail1125(at)aol.com, JTDEVINEY(at)enid.com, > rizer(at)uswest.net, RRPARR(at)ionet.net, Landers(at)kimball.com, > mikeycharlie(at)prodigy.net, rowem(at)intellisys.net, MSAHOB(at)aol.com, > WFi8189635(at)aol.com, SN1724(at)aol.com, SSLEE(at)neto.com, Srjaxson(at)aol.com, > SGROSSOEHMIG(at)mail.datasys.net, T.KUGEL(at)enid.com >Reply-To: TEDBOB5(at)aol.com > > >Return-path: Gail1125(at)aol.com >From: Gail1125(at)aol.com >Full-name: Gail1125 >Message-ID: <3109add5.2433f5f0(at)aol.com> >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:04:32 EST >Subject: Homeless Man >To: CrawCheryl(at)aol.com, Quiltnnut(at)aol.com, TEDBOB5(at)aol.com, > fourkids(at)frontiernet.net, scooby_doo167(at)yahoo.com, > sue_wilson_99(at)yahoo.com >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 >Reply-To: Gail1125(at)aol.com > >> >>>>>Homeless Man >>>>> =========== >>>>> It was a cold winter's day that Sunday. The parking lot to the church >>>>>was filling up quickly. I noticed as I got out of my car fellow church >>>>>members were whispering among themselves as they walked in the church. >>As >>>>>I got closer I saw a man leaned up against the wall outside the church. >>>>>He was almost laying down as if he was asleep. He had on a long trench >>>>>coat that was almost in shreds and a hat topped his head, pulled down so >>>>>you could not see his face. He wore shoes that looked 30 years old, too >>>>>small for his feet, with holes all over them, his toes stuck out. I >>>>>assumed this man was homeless, and asleep, so I walked on by through the >>>>>doors of the church. We all had fellowship for a few minutes, and >>someone >>>>>brought up the man laying outside. People snickered and gossiped but no >>>>>one bothered to ask him to come in, including me. A few moments later >>>>>church began. We all waited for the Preacher to take his place and to >>>>>give us the Word, when the doors to the church opened. In came the >>>>>homeless man walking down the aisle with his head down. People gasped >>and >>>>>whispered and made faces. He made his way down the aisle and up onto the >>>>>pulpit where he took off his hat and coat. My heart sank. There stood >>>>>our preacher ... he was the "homeless man." No one said a word. The >>>>>preacher took his Bible and laid it on his stand. "Folks, I don't think >I >>>>>have to tell you what I am preaching about today." >>>> > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: McManD(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Subject: Ques Wiring ? KT76A with ACK encoder
I'm wiring a ACK encoder to my KT76A. I bought both used, and got a used harness with it too. But I do not know if the 2 were used together....... I have the wiring diagram for the King KT76A. If someone had a wiring diagram for the ACK encoder and could fax, scan, jpeg, bitmap and email or??? to me, that would be great. 3) Questions/Problems: a) Wiring in the King Manual, KT76A to King encoder doesn't seem to jive with the 25 pin connector as it is currently wired. So I need to check it out I guess......some encoders wire different? b) There was a wire cut free and dangling from the harness....it goes to pin # 13 in the 25 pin connector.....if It didn't go to transponder where did it go? c) Ditto, there was another wire cut free and dangling from the harness....it goes to both pins # 10 and # 22, in the 25 pin connector.....if It didn't go to transponder where did it go? Now about my KLX135......VFR plane here, nights limited, and I'll have dash brow lights bathing the entire instrument panel...do I need to worry about the lighting circuit in the radio to switch it to back light mode? Thanks David McManmon, RV6 Cicero NY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Mack" <donmack(at)flash.net>
Subject: Intrument Panel in 6A
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Finally started trimming the instrument panel for my 6A. Question: The plans do not show the outside bottom edges of the panel that sit under the longeron to be trimmed at all. I assume I have to trim it otherwise there is no way to get it past the F604 and into position. Suggestions? I don't see trimming as a big deal other than it won't look as nice. Don Mack RV-6A Fuselage donmack(at)flash.net http://www.flash.net/~donmack ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "baremetl" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pump
Date: Apr 06, 1999
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Denk <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 11:15 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Facet Fuel Pump > >For what it's worth, I posted a question about the same pump recently. >Those things make one HELLUVA racket! I haven't run any fuel through >mine yet, so who knows what will happen. Just the mere noise it made >when dry makes me wonder if it's getting ready to grenade itself or >something. I'll be interested to see the responses to your post. > >Brian in Albuquerque. >RV-8 #379 >engine and finish kit on the way. > >When you hear that noise on downwind after you have throttled back, you will discover that the engine will not respond to the throttle a few seconds later when you need a little bit of power to extend your glide. Then you will remember when you last heard that sound and switch tanks. Hopefully the prop will still be windmilling. You can guess how I know this to be a fact. Ivan RV-4 550 hrs. Yes, My plane and I survived another hard lesson. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 06, 1999
Subject: Re: Intrument Panel in 6A
<< Finally started trimming the instrument panel for my 6A. Question: The plans do not show the outside bottom edges of the panel that sit under the longeron to be trimmed at all. I assume I have to trim it otherwise there is no way to get it past the F604 and into position. Suggestions? I don't see trimming as a big deal other than it won't look as nice. >> Don, I cut mine off directly below the rails. It drops in nicely now, but doesn't look as good as the ones where folks were able to fiddle the thing in place. I'm planning to install my cabin vents in the hole I left, so that'll hide most of the opening. You may want to look at the pictures on the Matronics site to see some panel examples... Kyle Boatright ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Re: hs 610-614 6 degree bend
Moe Colontonio wrote: > Trust me when I tell you: If mine came out ok, yours will definately > fit. Me too! BTW, in my Bunny's Guide <http://members.xoom.com/frankv/bunny1a.htm> I show how simple trigonometry (is that an oxymoron?) can eliminate the need for a protractor in this situation. And probably give you an unneeded improvement in the accuracy of the bend. Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry McKee" <lmckee(at)cnetech.com>
Subject: Re: Laser levels
Date: Apr 06, 1999
> >> Whew, I'm glad I'm not the only one who's wife thinks this RV project >costs >> "A LOT" > > >One needs to plan ahead - when I met my wife, our second date was to an >airshow, the third was to go flying if I recall correctly.... that was >thirteen years ago. > >Alex Peterson > But what does she think a RV project costs? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Intrument Panel in 6A
Date: Apr 06, 1999
>The plans do not show the outside bottom edges of the panel that sit under >the longeron to be trimmed at all. I assume I have to trim it otherwise >there is no way to get it past the F604 and into position. > >Suggestions? I don't see trimming as a big deal other than it won't look as >nice. People do it lots of ways -- cut part of it off just enough to get it in there and slide it back in place. Or cut all of it. I cut it them all the way back and made pieces that would screw back in there (with nutplates on the back) and that's where I put my headphone jacks. Bottom line is yes you have to cut it to get it in there. Randall Henderson, RV-6 (instruments/finish) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing randallh(at)home.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: "Marshall M. Dues" <mmdues@hal-pc.org>
Subject: Re: Ques Wiring ? KT76A with ACK encoder
Hello, David and RVators, I am using that combination of a King KT-76A ATC transponder and an ACK model A-30 remote altitude encoder in my RV-6. My installation manual that came with the encoder shows the following for wiring the two pieces of equipment together: ACK A-30 Function KT-76A Wire Color 5 B1 E Brown 4 A4 J Blue 3 A2 K White 2 A1 M Green 13 C2 L Violet 12 C4 H Gray 11 C1 D Pink 10 B4 B Orange 9 B2 C Yellow 6 Airframe GND Brown 15 Airframe GND Black 8 +DC Input (thru 2 A fuse) Red 1 8 o o o o o o o o View of connector on encoder o o o o o o o (looking into pins ) 9 15 Note: You mention a 25 pin connector. The ACK model A-30 has a 15 pin D-type connector, not 25 pin. Are you sure you have an ACK encoder? You didn't mention the specific model number of the encoder. If your encoder unit does in fact have a 25 pin connector, then this may not apply to your case, but others may have a use for this data. Good luck, Marshall Dues RV-6, N243MD 200 hrs DWH arpt (Houston area) McManD(at)aol.com wrote: > > > I'm wiring a ACK encoder to my KT76A. I bought both used, and got a used > harness with it too. But I do not know if the 2 were used together....... I > have the wiring diagram for the King KT76A. > > If someone had a wiring diagram for the ACK encoder and could fax, scan, > jpeg, bitmap and email or??? to me, that would be great. > > 3) Questions/Problems: > > a) Wiring in the King Manual, KT76A to King encoder doesn't seem to jive with > the 25 pin connector as it is currently wired. So I need to check it out I > guess......some encoders wire different? > > b) There was a wire cut free and dangling from the harness....it goes to pin > # 13 in the 25 pin connector.....if It didn't go to transponder where did it > go? > > c) Ditto, there was another wire cut free and dangling from the harness....it > goes to both pins # 10 and # 22, in the 25 pin connector.....if It didn't go > to transponder where did it go? > whack ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: Ques Wiring ? KT76A with ACK encoder
Date: Apr 07, 1999
> -----Original Message----- > From: McManD(at)aol.com [SMTP:McManD(at)aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 11:10 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Ques Wiring ? KT76A with ACK encoder > ******* SNIP ****** > Now about my KLX135......VFR plane here, nights limited, and I'll have > dash > brow lights bathing the entire instrument panel...do I need to worry about > > the lighting circuit in the radio to switch it to back light mode? > > Thanks > David McManmon, RV6 Cicero NY > Dave, I have LCD instruments in my panel on N925RV, both radios and gauges. To see them in the sunlight, they needed to be backlite - i.e. their internal lights on full during daylight hours. These lights were much too bright after dark. So what I did was to switch their power source between +12VDC for daytime flying, and the dimmer circuit output for night time flying. A simple relay, powered by the NAV light circuit, works fine (NAV lights are suppose to be ON after sunset, right?). IF for some reason, the NAV light circuit blows a fuse, then the panel lights come on full bright..... IF the dimmer circuit blows a fuse, OR the relay fails, well, that's why we carry flashlights after dark...... KISS.... Keep it simple stupid! should prevail..... Fred Stucklen N925RV RV-6A E. Windsor, Ct ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cappucci, Louis" <Louis.Cappucci(at)gs.com>
Subject: Facet Fuel Pump
Date: Apr 07, 1999
larry, if van's offered to replace it, sounds like a "fuel pump no workee" to me. you must have convinced them that it was defective, otherwise they would have told you what you were doing wrong, how to install, etc. (i could be wrong: this could just be "the customer is always right" attitude from them.) this is a low cost, easy-to-ship part. why not exchange it? seems that would take a lot less effort than trying to troubleshoot a system without even knowing for sure what it should be able to do or not do. it is good that you are posting this to the list so we can learn from it, but i say send it back, and then let us know how the new one works out for you. if you get the same result, this could very important info, especially for those contemplating intentionally running a tank dry (see archives). good luck, louis cappucci mamaroneck, ny rv-6a qb > I tried it again tonight. The pump works fine when it is primed and > produces about 4 psi but it will absolutely not self-prime which gives me > pause because I can think of several situations where the pump could lose > its prime, like inverted flight or running a tank dry. It will not even > pull fuel an inch up the tube with a small gas can sitting on the floor. > > There seems to by a real split of opinion as to whether it should be able > to > do this and to further confuse things my engine driven pump will not do it > either with the engine running at 1200 rpm. Van's has offered to replace > the pump but I hate to do that until I am sure mine is defective. > > I am leaning toward just waiting till the wings are mounted again and > seeing > how it works that way. It is hard for me to see the difference though as > the vertical lift to the top of the 1 gallon gas can is about the same as > the lift to the fuel selector. > > Thanks for the opinions, > > Larry Pardue > Carlsbad, NM > > RV-6Q Inspection scheduled 4/22 > > > > > - > > - > > - > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: Robert Dimeo <bdimeo(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: hs 610-614 6 degree bend
Heck, I just drew it out on a piece of cardboard and bent until it matched. Worked fine. Regards, Bob RV8 #423 working on wings. Bob Paulovich wrote: > > having heck of a time getting an exact 6. with protractror both look > good but by standing back and looking they just don't look even. i did > notice one bend has just a slight twist look (in sunlight) at the point > of bend. am i being too picky?? i tried and tried to find the error > but... perhaps there is not one. suggestions?? bob in arkansas > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: Glenn & Judi <glenng(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Intrument Panel in 6A
Don, I started with a panel blank that was 1 1/2" taller than the one suppplied. I traced the supplied panel unto it. I used the area under the rails to locate my airvents. I did MINIMAL trimming in this area on my panel. It is a tight fit to get it in and takes some wiggling, but it looks nice. -Glenn Gordon Don Mack wrote: > > Finally started trimming the instrument panel for my 6A. Question: > > The plans do not show the outside bottom edges of the panel that sit under > the longeron to be trimmed at all. I assume I have to trim it otherwise > there is no way to get it past the F604 and into position. > > Suggestions? I don't see trimming as a big deal other than it won't look as > nice. > > Don Mack > RV-6A Fuselage > donmack(at)flash.net > http://www.flash.net/~donmack > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: ADC REMOTE OIL FILTER
Date: Apr 07, 1999
>Events such as this is the reason I elected to install the ADC remote oil >filter on my O-320 RV-4. The fine screen (25 micron) element is easily >inspected and cleaned at each oil change. Additionally, it includes a >bypass indicator light to warn of contaminant build up and a magnetic chip >indicator light. As the manufacturer suggested the bypass light came on Dick, can you tell us more about this remote oil filter like cost, suppliers, installation etc? Thanks Lothar Lothar |||-6A; just finisched drilling gear mounts in Lakewood/ Denver, CO ||| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christopher Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pump
Date: Apr 07, 1999
I suspect that there was a piece of debris stuck on the foot valve. It probably cleared itself after running the pump with fuel. I would suggest draining the hoses and try running it dry again to see if the self priming feature now works. Chris Heitman cjh(at)execpc.com >I tried it again tonight. The pump works fine when it is primed and >produces about 4 psi but it will absolutely not self-prime which gives me >pause because I can think of several situations where the pump could lose >its prime, like inverted flight or running a tank dry. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Cowl Pins
Date: Apr 07, 1999
A quick check of the archives did not turn up an answer to the following question: For those folks with flying RV-6 or 6A and using hinge pins to secure the bottom of the cowling to the fuselage, do you secure these bottom pins somehow? I bent mine with a loop in the end so I can grab them with my finger to pull them out. But it looks like they should be secured so they don't work their way out in flight. What have others done? Thanks. Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 "Ready to Paint" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: "Scott Kuebler" <skuebler(at)CANNONdesign.com>
Subject: Final wing skeleton questions
I am just about ready to disassemble my wings skeletons to prime and prepare for skinning. Before I do this I have a couple questions that I can't find answers to in the manual : #1. Wing rib stiffener angles - In my personal RV-list archive I have saved a posting that states not to forget to put a 45 degree taper on the ends of the angles, specifically on the side that rests against the ribs. I guess this is to achieve proper clearance for future rivets and platenuts on the main spar flange. My question is, if it is the side that rests against the ribs wouldn't the ribs cause the same clearance problems? Is this taper necessary? No mention of in the manual or on the plans. #2 - Aileron Bellcrank Gussets - On the newer kits these are more like ribs than gussets. My question- when is the proper time to install these? Now during the skeleton assembly, or later during the skinning. I can't find in the manual where it give a sequence for installation of these two gussets. Thanks in advance for the help. Looking forward to finally putting some skins on. Scott Kuebler Buffalo, NY RV-6a (wings) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com>
Subject: Re: Cowl Pins
Randy, If memory serves me correctly the plans call for bending the bottom cowl hinge pins in an "L" shape with one end of the "L" to be inserted in the hinge and the other end of the "L" to be inserted into two holes in the cowl plate on the bottom that holes the cowl to the nose wheel brace (on the 6A at least). However, it can be a little bit of a hassle getting those pins in due to their shape and size of the "L". It would appear you could secure them any number of ways. I saw one installation where the individual secured one section of a hinge to the end of the hinge pin, drill a hole in the hinge section and secured it with safety wire to a hole drilled in the lower lip of the firewall. Ed Anderson Randy J. Pflanzer wrote: > > > A quick check of the archives did not turn up an answer to the following > question: > > For those folks with flying RV-6 or 6A and using hinge pins to secure the > bottom of the cowling to the fuselage, do you secure these bottom pins > somehow? I bent mine with a loop in the end so I can grab them with my > finger to pull them out. But it looks like they should be secured so they > don't work their way out in flight. What have others done? Thanks. > > Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 > "Ready to Paint" > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: "Rodney Boyd" <rboyd(at)dcccd.edu>
Subject: panel web site
Listers, FYI......... I found this site on the web. Thought I'd pass it on FWIW. I have no connection nor do I know anything about the company. http://www.pavionics.com/ Rodney 6A emp ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Re: RV6 vs Glastar
Out of curiosity, did you pose the same question to the Glastar Builders group? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rv8er(at)concentric.net[1-800-745-2747.The.Concentric.Network]
Subject: Re: hs 610-614 6 degree bend
Date: Apr 07, 1999
Heck, I think I just held it up to the Mech. Drawing and bent a little at a time until it mached. Angles are angles regardless of scale. Greg Puckett Elizabeth, CO rv8er(at)concentric.net (One tank finally completed with no leaks) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H. Martin Sutter" <hmsutter(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Cowl Pins
Date: Apr 07, 1999
> Randy J. Pflanzer wrote: > > > > > For those folks with flying RV-6 or 6A and using hinge pins to secure the > > bottom of the cowling to the fuselage, do you secure these bottom pins > > somehow? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------- Many of us who have several hundreds of hours on our RV6's have found that the bottom hinges will fail and have replaced them with a .063" plate and 5 nutplates and screws per side. Martin Sutter N868CM 1,350hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: Final wing skeleton questions
Date: Apr 07, 1999
Question #1: I'm not familiar enough with the RV-6 to comment. Question #2: I think my RV-4 manual stated it is necessary to have the wing skin clecoed to properly position the gussets. But that was a couple of years ago. Regards, Tom Craig-Stearman RV-4 finally feather-filled the cowl scoop for final sanding > >I am just about ready to disassemble my wings skeletons to prime and prepare for skinning. Before I do this I have a couple questions that I can't find answers to in the manual : > >#1. Wing rib stiffener angles - In my personal RV-list archive I have saved a posting that states not to forget to put a 45 degree taper on the ends of the angles, specifically on the side that rests against the ribs. I guess this is to achieve proper clearance for future rivets and platenuts on the main spar flange. My question is, if it is the side that rests against the ribs wouldn't the ribs cause the same clearance problems? Is this taper necessary? No mention of in the manual or on the plans. > >#2 - Aileron Bellcrank Gussets - On the newer kits these are more like ribs than gussets. My question- when is the proper time to install these? Now during the skeleton assembly, or later during the skinning. I can't find in the manual where it give a sequence for installation of these two gussets. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Re: Final wing skeleton questions
Scott, >#1. Wing rib stiffener angles - If you are referring to the angles that get bolted and riveted to the spar and riveted to the rib, I rounded the corners. Did not 45. >#2 - Aileron Bellcrank Gussets - I did mine in the skeleton stage. Easier to rivet the gusset to the rib. Be sure to simulate skin between ribs so you don't get a bulge or bow right there. Also on the bottom, mine became an intrigal part of the inspection plate reinforcement ring. (pre-predrilled, and in this case pre-joggled) Good luck... Larry Olson Cave Creek, AZ RV6 - Tanks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Re: Cowl Pins
Date: Apr 07, 1999
Martin, I can see why. My lower hinges are already pre-loaded as they hold up the cowling. I've harbored a concern that they may crack in time. I may just replace them now with a plate. I'd rather do this before paint and in the comfort of my garage rather than at the airport. I'm already using screws to hold the two cowling halves together (new S-cowl). Thanks. Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 "Ready to Paint" -----Original Message----- From: H. Martin Sutter <hmsutter(at)flash.net> Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 10:28 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowl Pins > > >> Randy J. Pflanzer wrote: >> > >> > > For those folks with flying RV-6 or 6A and using hinge pins to secure >the >> > bottom of the cowling to the fuselage, do you secure these bottom pins >> > somehow? >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - >----------------------------------- > >Many of us who have several hundreds of hours on our RV6's have found that >the bottom hinges will fail and have replaced them with a .063" plate and 5 >nutplates and screws per side. > >Martin Sutter N868CM 1,350hrs > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: Vince Himsl <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com>
Subject: Re: hs 610-614 6 degree bend
At 03:10 PM 4/6/99 , you wrote: > >having heck of a time getting an exact 6. with protractror both look >good but by standing back and looking they just don't look even. i did >notice one bend has just a slight twist look (in sunlight) at the point >of bend. am i being too picky?? i tried and tried to find the error >but... perhaps there is not one. suggestions?? bob in arkansas > ________________ Hello, I used a protractor and didn't use the sun and time to amplify minor inaccuracies. If you only notice a problem by rotating the piece in the sunlight and staring at it, then you are probably ok. My main problem when I started was that I considered the dimensions on the plans more important that the holes in the pre punched skins. With the pre punched holes, the skins actually become the final authority as to rib/spar alignment. It is a subtle distinction, but an important one as now, when faced with your problem, I would wait to see how everything lines up with the skins before becoming overly concerned about a minor bend error, real or imagined. A Builders Law: The seriousness of an error, real or imagined, is directly proportional to the time spent staring at it! Hope this helps! Vince Himsl RV8 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Paul_Imhof(at)Dell.com
Subject: Engine Mounts for Aerobatics
Date: Apr 07, 1999
I've searched the archives and didn't find anything definitive. What are the advantages/disadvantages to having a stiffer aerobatic engine mount? What am I giving up besides smooth ride and extra $$. What am I gaining with aerobatic mounts? I called VANS and they have only sold a couple aerobatic mounts for the RV-8 and really recommend the standard mounts. I plan on medium aerobatics (if there's an amount). I don't plan on doing competition aerobatics. I will be installing an IO-360A1B6 engine... I would be very interested in your comments. Thanks, Paul Imhof RV-8, on gear, tail installed, engine on the way. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com>
Subject: Re: Intrument Panel in 6A
Be careful on the trimming to make sure that you don get too excited trying to get it into position only to find out that you shouldn't have cut off that little piece you thought dint count. suggestion: this is a tough fit, so why not cut out some cardboard and fit that first. I have found that using a cardboard template/ tryout has been very useful for a lot of parts before I cut into the aluminum. But the truth is, you'll end up doing the panel twice anyway, I am, and I know that some others were not happy after a while and also decided to cut it again for a final fit. Also, Vans plans calls for a lot of rivets on the panel to attach the back angle. All you need is 3 holes for screws on top of the panel for the attachment to the "ribs". (reason #2 for my second panel)At 10:29 PM 4/6/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Finally started trimming the instrument panel for my 6A. Question: > >The plans do not show the outside bottom edges of the panel that sit under >the longeron to be trimmed at all. I assume I have to trim it otherwise >there is no way to get it past the F604 and into position. > >Suggestions? I don't see trimming as a big deal other than it won't look as >nice. > >Don Mack >RV-6A Fuselage >donmack(at)flash.net >http://www.flash.net/~donmack > > > Dan Dan Wiesel Interlink Recruiting 408-551-6554 dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com>
Subject: Re: Cowl Pins
Martin: I haven't yet looked at the cowl installation yet, but it is up soon. Could you better describe what you did to replace this hinge? I'm sure a lot of wrote: > > >> Randy J. Pflanzer wrote: >> > >> > > For those folks with flying RV-6 or 6A and using hinge pins to secure >the >> > bottom of the cowling to the fuselage, do you secure these bottom pins >> > somehow? >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >----------------------------------- > >Many of us who have several hundreds of hours on our RV6's have found that >the bottom hinges will fail and have replaced them with a .063" plate and 5 >nutplates and screws per side. > >Martin Sutter N868CM 1,350hrs > > > Dan Dan Wiesel Interlink Recruiting 408-551-6554 dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Final wing skeleton questions
> I am just about ready to disassemble my wings skeletons to prime and > prepare for skinning. Before I do this I have a couple questions > that I can't find answers to in the manual : I'm ready to start skinning this puppy myself (-6) and here are my thoughts: > > #1. Wing rib stiffener angles - In my personal RV-list archive I > have saved a posting that states not to forget to put a 45 degree > taper on the ends of the angles, specifically on the side that rests > against the ribs. I guess this is to achieve proper clearance for > future rivets and platenuts on the main spar flange. My question is, > if it is the side that rests against the ribs wouldn't the ribs cause > the same clearance problems? Is this taper necessary? No mention of > in the manual or on the plans. I have not seen the post to which you refer. They may have been confusing the main spar angles with the rib attachment angles. 45 the spar angles, but as you say, what's to be gained by putting a 45 on the rib attach angles? > > #2 - Aileron Bellcrank Gussets - On the newer kits these are more > like ribs than gussets. My question- when is the proper time to > install these? Now during the skeleton assembly, or later during the > skinning. I can't find in the manual where it give a sequence for > installation of these two gussets. This thought rattled around in my head too. I decided better to drill and cleco the skin (either side top/bottom) and then locate and drill the gusset/ribs. This will let you get the gusset/rib up against the skin, then you can drill the skin to it as well. Pull that skin and drill/cleco the other side, mount gusset/rib. My plan, anyway. YMMV. > > Thanks in advance for the help. > Looking forward to finally putting some skins on. Jeez, me too. How many times do I have to assemble and disassemble these things (doing both wings, double jig) before I can set a rivet? Good luck! Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Wings (still) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H. Martin Sutter" <hmsutter(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Cowl Pins
Date: Apr 07, 1999
> > Martin: > > I haven't yet looked at the cowl installation yet, but it is up soon. Could > you better describe what you did to replace this hinge ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ The hinge was replaced by drilling out the rivets along the fire wall and using the same holes to attach a .063" plate in the hinges place. The plate was cut 1 3/4" wide and the same lenght as the hinge it replaced. Five #8 countersunk screws with washers and nut plates per side are used to hold the cowl to the plate. This set-up has held up well over the last 950hrs while the hinges failed after 400hrs (the ears broke off). Martin Sutter N868CM 1,350hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: "Owens" <owens(at)Aerovironment.com>
Subject: Instrument Panel (was) Intrument Panel
Dan Wiesel wrote: "Also, Vans plans calls for a lot of rivets on the panel to attach the back angle. All you need is 3 holes for screws on top of the panel for the attachment to the "ribs"." Dan, I think the reason Van calls out "a lot or rivets" on the instrument panel is that it is a structural member of the fuselage, and not just holding the panel in place. It helps transfer a torsional load in the fuselage to the skin. By only holding the panel with 3 screws you've eliminated that bulkhead from the picture as far as being able to transfer these loads. Try taking a paper towel cardboard tube and twisting it. Now try cutting a big hole in the middle with sharp corners (like a cut out for the pilot/baggage compartment) and see how resistant it is to the same torsional load. The aft baggage bulkhead and the instrument panel are there to help take and spread out that load. I used screws to put my panel in, but I'm using the 2.5" spacing that's called out in the plans. Just my opinion....(everybody has one you know....just like a**holes ;-)) Laird SoCal RV-6 #22923 firewall forward ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: Cowl Pins
Date: Apr 07, 1999
Randy, I put loops at the center ends and tie wrap them to an rubber exhaust cross over shock mount that's in that area. Works well .. As an after thought, I would never again use hinge pins on any part of the cowl. They might be simple, but are more trouble than there're worth. And when the hinges wear out or break, the replacement process ruins your paint job. Next time it's CamLocks...... Fred Stucklen N925RV RV-6A E. Windsor, Ct > -----Original Message----- > From: Randy J. Pflanzer [SMTP:rpflanze(at)iquest.net] > Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 10:39 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Cowl Pins > > > A quick check of the archives did not turn up an answer to the following > question: > > For those folks with flying RV-6 or 6A and using hinge pins to secure the > bottom of the cowling to the fuselage, do you secure these bottom pins > somehow? I bent mine with a loop in the end so I can grab them with my > finger to pull them out. But it looks like they should be secured so they > don't work their way out in flight. What have others done? Thanks. > > Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 > "Ready to Paint" > > > > > - > > - > > - > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B&S Eckstein" <eckstein@net-link.net>
Subject: Re: Intrument Panel in 6A
Date: Apr 07, 1999
Did this recently. Trimmed mine to get past the post. leave enough to get a screw in under the deck to firm up the panel. Brian Eckstein ---------- > > > Finally started trimming the instrument panel for my 6A. Question: > > The plans do not show the outside bottom edges of the panel that sit under > the longeron to be trimmed at all. I assume I have to trim it otherwise > there is no way to get it past the F604 and into position. > > Suggestions? I don't see trimming as a big deal other than it won't look as > nice. > > Don Mack > RV-6A Fuselage > donmack(at)flash.net > http://www.flash.net/~donmack > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: Cowl Pins
Date: Apr 07, 1999
Martin, Did you leave the original hinge material on the cowl? Or did you remove it? Fred Stucklen N925RV RV-6A E. Windsor, Ct > -----Original Message----- > From: H. Martin Sutter [SMTP:hmsutter(at)flash.net] > Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 2:20 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowl Pins > > The hinge was replaced by drilling out the rivets along the fire wall and > using the same holes to attach a .063" plate in the hinges place. The > plate > was cut 1 3/4" wide and the same lenght as the hinge it replaced. > Five #8 countersunk screws with washers and nut plates per side are used > to > hold the cowl to the plate. This set-up has held up well over the last > 950hrs while the hinges failed after 400hrs (the ears broke off). > > Martin Sutter N868CM 1,350hrs > > > > > - > > - > > - > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Cowl Pins
>For those folks with flying RV-6 or 6A and using hinge pins to secure the >bottom of the cowling to the fuselage, do you secure these bottom pins >somehow? I bent mine with a loop in the end so I can grab them with my >finger to pull them out. But it looks like they should be secured so they >don't work their way out in flight. What have others done? Thanks. I can't address the RV-6 but my RV-4 uses the same attach mechanism and I can comment on what 12 years and almost 700 hours have done. My hinge pins are not secured but they have never shown any signs of wanting to move on their own. The hinge itself was directly riveted to the fiberglas lower cowling. The loads near the top caused the top two rivets to eventually pull through. I ended up putting an aluminum plate on the outside of the cowl through which I drove new rivets. This spreads the load over a larger area. I don't see any evidence of the new rivets working at all so I am happy with the solution. On the other hand, these plates are probably knocking at least 5 kts off my speed. ; ) Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H. Martin Sutter" <hmsutter(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Cowl Pins
Date: Apr 07, 1999
----- Original Message ----- From: Stucklen, Frederic IFC <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> > Martin, > > Did you leave the original hinge material on the cowl? Or did you remove > it? The remnants of the hinge have to be removed. Riveting on the plate is a little tricky on a 6 tail dragger because the bottom cross tube of the engine mount is very close. I used the squeezer and a no-hole yoke, that worked fine. Martin Sutter N868CM 1,350hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com>
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel (was) Intrument Panel
Laird: Great info, thanks. Its got me thinking. But, would it be possible to rivet the back angle we are talking about to the skin(glareshield) with the 2.5"spacing, and then only use the three screws for the panel attachment. Would that give us back our engineering calcs? Am I missing something here?(i dont have the plans at the office)At > >Dan Wiesel wrote: > >"Also, Vans plans calls for a lot of rivets on the panel to attach the back >angle. All you need is 3 holes for screws on top of the panel for the >attachment to the "ribs"." > >Dan, > >I think the reason Van calls out "a lot or rivets" on the instrument panel is that it is a structural member of the fuselage, and not just holding the panel in place. It helps transfer a torsional load in the fuselage to the skin. By only holding the panel with 3 screws you've eliminated that bulkhead from the picture as far as being able to transfer these loads. > >Try taking a paper towel cardboard tube and twisting it. Now try cutting a big hole in the middle with sharp corners (like a cut out for the pilot/baggage compartment) and see how resistant it is to the same torsional load. The aft baggage bulkhead and the instrument panel are there to help take and spread out that load. > >I used screws to put my panel in, but I'm using the 2.5" spacing that's called out in the plans. > >Just my opinion....(everybody has one you know....just like a**holes ;-)) > >Laird >SoCal RV-6 #22923 firewall forward > > > Dan Dan Wiesel Interlink Recruiting 408-551-6554 dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel (was) Intrument Panel
Date: Apr 07, 1999
-----Original Message----- From: Owens <owens(at)Aerovironment.com> Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 3:58 PM Subject: RV-List: Instrument Panel (was) Intrument Panel > >Dan Wiesel wrote: > >"Also, Vans plans calls for a lot of rivets on the panel to attach the back >angle. All you need is 3 holes for screws on top of the panel for the >attachment to the "ribs"." > >Dan, > >I think the reason Van calls out "a lot or rivets" on the instrument panel is that it is a structural member of the fuselage, and not just holding the panel in place. It helps transfer a torsional load in the fuselage to the skin. By only holding the panel with 3 screws you've eliminated that bulkhead from the picture as far as being able to transfer these loads. > >I used screws to put my panel in, but I'm using the 2.5" spacing that's called out in the plans : . INSERT: ???????? see below > >>Laird >SoCal RV-6 #22923 firewall forward > What plane/canopy are you referring to? In my 6/6A drawings, I find Dwg 35 R6 2 screws, one in each end tab Dwg 32 R8 4 screws, two in each F603 flange. I count six screws (structural -- 125,000 PSI) holding the instrument panel. If I were doing it over, I'd use 0.090 sheet for the panel as instrument shops advise -- the .062 doesn't have much strength left after you mount lots of gyros and goodies. Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit Hampshire, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 1999
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.usyd.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Cowl Pins
> >A quick check of the archives did not turn up an answer to the following >question: > >For those folks with flying RV-6 or 6A and using hinge pins to secure the >bottom of the cowling to the fuselage, do you secure these bottom pins >somehow? I bent mine with a loop in the end so I can grab them with my >finger to pull them out. But it looks like they should be secured so they >don't work their way out in flight. What have others done? Thanks. > >Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 >"Ready to Paint" Randy, I did some head scratching on this. I heated the pins and bent a small loop at the end as you have done. I then drilled a 1/16 hole in the flange/hinge at the base of the firewall adjacent to the exhaust pipes. I secure the pins with safety wire through the loops and the holes. Leo Davies RV6-A (LDX) almost ready to paint ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Cowl Pins
Date: Apr 07, 1999
-----Original Message----- From: Stucklen, Frederic IFC <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 4:41 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Cowl Pins > >Randy, > > I put loops at the center ends and tie wrap them to an rubber exhaust >cross over shock mount that's in that area. Works well .. > As an after thought, I would never again use hinge pins on any part of >the cowl. They might be simple, but are more trouble than there're worth. >And when the hinges wear out or break, the replacement process ruins your >paint job. Next time it's CamLocks...... > >Fred Stucklen >N925RV RV-6A >E. Windsor, Ct > I'd like to hear from those who have successfully used CamLocs, and what part numbers they used. I've talked to many owners who have problems with them. The male CamLocs protrude from the cowl section and the cowl must be flexed to allow them to drop into their sockets. With the stiff cowl, especially the S-cowl, the cowl cannot be spread/flexed sufficiently to get it over the CamLoc sockets. I am leaning towards screws (maybe even round head!) and carrying my electric screwdriver with me. Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit Hampshire, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com>
Subject: Re: Intrument Panel in 6A
> The plans do not show the outside bottom edges of the panel that sit under > the longeron to be trimmed at all. I assume I have to trim it otherwise > there is no way to get it past the F604 and into position. > > Suggestions? I don't see trimming as a big deal other than it won't look as > nice. > I trimmed mine non symmetrically - one side is essentially full width, and the other is short enough to clear 604. The short one is not much shorter than the other. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A slider ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: "Owens" <owens(at)Aerovironment.com>
Subject: Instrument Panel (was) Intrument Panel
Dan Wiesel wrote: >Also, Vans plans calls for a lot of rivets on the panel to attach the back angle. All you need is 3 holes for screws on top of the panel for the attachment to the "ribs".< Laird Owens wrote: >I think the reason Van calls out "a lot of rivets" on the instrument panel is that it is a structural member of the fuselage, and not just holding the panel in place. It helps transfer a torsional load in the fuselage to the skin. By only holding the panel with 3 screws you've eliminated that bulkhead from the picture as far as being able to transfer these loads< Dennis Persyk wrote: >What plane/canopy are you referring to? In my 6/6A drawings, I find Dwg 35 R6 2 screws, one in each end tab Dwg 32 R8 4 screws, two in each F603 flange. I count six screws (structural -- 125,000 PSI) holding the instrument panel.< That last question got me thinking. I was talking about the -6 "slider", as that's what I'm building. I went back and looked at my plans and studied the -6 "tip up". It has a shorter deck skin, with a slightly different sub structure, that terminates at the sub panel. Since this was the first design for the -6, I'm assuming that Van did a stress analysis of this design, and that the short deck was deemed acceptable in the torsional mode. The "slider" has a longer deck skin coming back to the instrument panel. I said that I thought that taking the instrument panel out of the picture, by not attaching it using all the screws called out, would weaken the ability of the fuselage to take torsional loads. So I'll back pedal a little and say that I still think that it would weaken the fuse in that mode, but since the "tip up" does exactly that, and that's ok by Van, it would probably be fine in the "slider". So, I attaching the panel with 3 screws may be ok when looking at torsional stiffness. Dan wrote back: But, would it be possible to rivet the back angle we are talking about to the skin(glareshield) with the 2.5"spacing, and then only use the three screws for the panel attachment. Dan, That's what I thought you were talking about, i.e., riveting the angle to the skin, then screwing the panel to the angle. I still think 3 screws is too few. I would at least add one more in each corner of the panel at the F-621A/longeron. I would not want to support the panel from just 3 screws in tension from the upper skin. By putting all of the screws in as shown in the plans, you would be getting the additional stiffness that the "slider" affords. Sincerely, Laird SoCal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: greynoldsn98(at)mailhost.ind.ameritech.net.with.SMTP (InterMail v03.02.07 118
124)
Date: Apr 07, 1999
Subject: Re: RV-6A "New" Nose Gear
John W. Fasching wrote: > > > I decided to put on the new/improved/stronger RV-6A nose gear just to be on > the safe side. (40% stronger) Today Van's notified me my turn on the > waiting list had come up. Here's something I didn't know: You have to either > drill the mounting hole yourself, or send the old nose gear leg to Van's for > duplicate drilling. In itself this is not a big deal, only I sure hate to > put the airplane out of service for a couple of weeks! Van's folks say they > will give 3-day turnaround. It's just the darn shipping delays that are > pain. Just thought others would like to know. > FWIW > RV-6A > Salida, CO > John, The rest of the story is you get to pay shipping both ways. It was closer to 3 weeks off old gear on to new one. And..WD631 axle flange must be drilled 90 degrees to the old gear bolt hole. Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: THEZING3(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 07, 1999
Subject: Re: empenage kit for sale
Three (3) month old empenage kit for sale. Price includes elevator electric trim $900 Firm. Regards, Stan Z THEZING3(at)AOL.COM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pump
From: "William R. Davis Jr" <rvpilot(at)Juno.com>
Larry Pardue, Hi Larry, Have been following this thread and noted that no one has commented about you running the engine with the wings off. This is not a good Idea. I know of at least one builder that wrecked on of his elevators doing this . His name is Pat Carr (woodsboat(at)aol.com) You might check with him before running it this way again. I believe that Van's cautions against this too. About the pump--Facet specifies that it be mounted at a 45 Deg. angle with the inlet lower than the outlet, is this the case in your installation? Regards, Bill N66WD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: THEZING3(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 07, 1999
Subject: Re:clecoes/avery rivet squeezer for sale
I have 325 pcs 3/32 NEW clecoes and 125 pcs NEW 1/8 clecoes for sale .20 each Avery hand rivet squeezer -3 months old with 3 sets of dies $100.00 Regards Stan Z THEZING3(at)AOL.COM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: McManD(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 07, 1999
Subject: Ques Wiring ? KT76A with "NARCO 850" encoder
Well I blew that!~~~ Great help from you guys.... for those who know what they are asking for! Thanks Marshall Dues for the great details....but It was late and all those tiny numbers sorry listers...here goes again; I'm wiring a Narco AR 850 encoder to my KT76A. I bought both used, and got a used harness with it too. But I do not know if the 2 were used together....... I have the wiring diagram for the King KT76A. If someone had a wiring diagram for the Narco AR850 encoder and could fax, scan, jpeg, bitmap and email or??? to me, that would be great. 3) Questions/Problems: a) Wiring in the King Manual, KT76A to King encoder doesn't seem to jive with the 25 pin connector as it is currently wired. So I need to check it out I guess......some encoders wire different? (Yes I found that our cause the ACK encoder has a different pin plug compared to the NARCO..duh as I later was advised...) b) There was a wire cut free and dangling from the harness....it goes to pin # 13 in the 25 pin connector.....if It didn't go to transponder where did it go? c) Ditto, there was another wire cut free and dangling from the harness....it goes to both pins # 10 and # 22, in the 25 pin connector.....if It didn't go to transponder where did it go? Thanks David McManmon, RV6 Cicero NY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marian Rendall & Scott Sawby" <mkr(at)netw.com>
Subject: Gyros, long sad story
Date: Apr 07, 1999
I'm hoping someone on the list knows enough about gyros to shed some light on my problem, I'm at my wits end. I installed IFR brand gyros in my RV-6A. I know from the archives that other prople have been less than thrilled with this brand and they are now out of business, which may say something. Nevertheless, they were not cheap gyros, I could have had either of the other major brands for the same price. I bought them because they were a little shorter and I thought they would be easier to get in and out with the sub panel. Anyway, I got my plane flying and neither my DG or Attitude worked. This was probably my fault, it was over a year from the time I bought them to the time I got flying. Gyros don't like to sit around inactive. I had them rebuilt at about $200 ea. They still didn't work. Sent them back a second time and had them rebuilt. They still didn't work, only $100 this time. I had them rebuilt a third time and this time the DG worked and still does, but not the attitude, it has been several months. IFR was out of business, but they were sending them to some instrument repair place in Wichita. These people are telling me that the bearings are trashed and I am "abusing them". In discussing this with them they sound convinced that I am dropping them. Anyway I decided I wasn't going to spend any more money on this IFR Attitude gyro, so I bit the bullet and ordered an R C Allen. I Installed it a week or so ago, it worked fair for a couple of hours (did what it was supposed to but not particularly accurately). Yesterday it tumbled after I turned the engine off and it was winding down. It did the same thing this AM and by this afternoon it had gone tits up. The display either spins or stabilizes at some weird attitude. Tomorrow I am going to have my local mechanic put a gauge on my vacuum system and see if I am getting the vacuum that my gauge says I am, but I'm not hopeful that is my problem. The DG seems to be doing fine and I have a new regulator in the line. I am wondering if RV's just kill them through vibration. I don't think my plane vibrates excessively, in fact people have told me it runs pretty smooth. Yet I don't have the gyros on any sort of rubber mounted sub panel. Has anyone on the list had success with gyros just mounted in the main panel? My other theory is maybe you just can't ship these things. They come packed in a lot of foam, but I've seen they way the UPS people handle packages. I would really appreciate it if anyone has any information that may be of use to me. Scott Sawby N341SS 130 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lousmith(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 07, 1999
Subject: Re: Engine Mounts for Aerobatics
In a message dated 4/7/99 1:20:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Paul_Imhof(at)Dell.com writes: << I've searched the archives and didn't find anything definitive. What are the advantages/disadvantages to having a stiffer aerobatic engine mount? What am I giving up besides smooth ride and extra $$. What am I gaining with aerobatic mounts? I called VANS and they have only sold a couple aerobatic mounts for the RV-8 and really recommend the standard mounts. I plan on medium aerobatics (if there's an amount). I don't plan on doing competition aerobatics. I will be installing an IO-360A1B6 engine... I would be very interested in your comments. Thanks, Paul Imhof RV-8, on gear, tail installed, engine on the way. >> Paul, I have the stiffer mounts on my RV-8 with an IO-360-A1B6. I ordered the standard ones from Van's, but was shipped and charged for the stiffer ones. I decided to keep them anyway. I have now been flying my RV-8 for about ten months. So far, my engine has not sagged at all. The spinner is still in the same relation to the cowling as day one. I have a McCauley CS prop on my RV-8 that has a yellow range from 1450 to 1950 rpms. When slowing down to land, I can feel the vibration when going through this range. I often wonder if I would feel this if I had the softer mounts. I am helping a friend build a RV-4 now and am tempted to try his softer mounts since he is not ready for them yet. Regards, Louis Smith RV-8 N801RV 85 hours ttsn Leaving for Sun-N-Fun Saturday Morning!!!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Darby" <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Cowl Pins
Date: Apr 07, 1999
Randy, i found the simplest way (always my desire) was to bend the inboard ends of the pin into an L with a half hook at the end. Then the half hook can be sprung in and rotated up to latch onto the engine mount brace. To remove, reach into the exhaust opening, unhook the pin and pull to the center of the a/c. Just the reverse to install and hook. No drilling, no extra stuff, and it is hooked under tension and stays in place. You'll work it out. John Darby andy J. Pflanzer wrote: >> >> >> A quick check of the archives did not turn up an answer to the following >> question: >> >> For those folks with flying RV-6 or 6A and using hinge pins to secure the >> bottom of the cowling to the fuselage, do you secure these bottom pins >> somehow? I bent mine with a loop in the end so I can grab them with my >> finger to pull them out. But it looks like they should be secured so they >> don't work their way out in flight. What have others done? Thanks. >> >> Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 >> "Ready to Paint" >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lousmith(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 07, 1999
Subject: Re: Gyros, long sad story
In a message dated 4/7/99 10:04:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mkr(at)netw.com writes: << I am wondering if RV's just kill them through vibration. I don't think my plane vibrates excessively, in fact people have told me it runs pretty smooth. Yet I don't have the gyros on any sort of rubber mounted sub panel. Has anyone on the list had success with gyros just mounted in the main panel? >> Scott, I have a RC Allen horizon and a Sigma-Tek DG mounted in my panel. Both of these are mounted in the panel without any type of rubber mounts. So far, so good. They have about 10 months and 85 hours on them. Louis Smith RV-8 N801RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Sipp" <rsipp(at)ismi.net>
Subject: Re: ADC REMOTE OIL FILTER
Date: Apr 07, 1999
-----Original Message----- From: Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 11:11 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: ADC REMOTE OIL FILTER >Dick, can you tell us more about this remote oil filter like cost, >suppliers, installation etc? Thanks Lothar Lothar: The ADC oil filter I spoke of is advertised on page 226 of the current Spruce Catalog. The manufacturer is Aviation Development Corp, phone numbers on yellar page and they usually run ads in most of the gen aviation tabloids. A casting replaces the stock oil filter, hoses run from this to the remote mounted filter. I put mine on the outer right engine mount tubes. Installation instructions and manuf. support very good. (Sent me a free extra screen when I damaged one.) The design is often referred to as an "Oberg" type filter and I believe is common on Nascar racers, ag planes and other applications Pluses in my view: early contamination warning, ease of cleaning and inspection of any debris, no filter to replace. Minuses: Approx 5lb net weight gain, cost, ($485) added complexity of additional fittings and plumbing. Overriding factor for me was the early warning of something coming apart in the engine via the chip and bypass lights. Dick Sipp RV-4 N250DS 145 HOURS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Gyros, long sad story
Marian Rendall & Scott Sawby wrote: > > > I am wondering if RV's just kill them through vibration. I don't think my > plane vibrates excessively, in fact people have told me it runs pretty > smooth. Yet I don't have the gyros on any sort of rubber mounted sub > panel. Has anyone on the list had success with gyros just mounted in the > main panel? > > My other theory is maybe you just can't ship these things. They come > packed in a lot of foam, but I've seen they way the UPS people handle > packages. > > I would really appreciate it if anyone has any information that may be of > use to me. > > Scott Sawby N341SS 130 hrs. > I've had RC Allens in my RV-6 for about 6 years and love them. I have done aerobatics and have had no problems with them. What dose your Vacuum gauge show for vacuum? Jerry Springer|RV-6 First flight 7/14/89|Hillsboro, OR|jsflyrv(at)teleport.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Johnson" <scottj(at)ais.net>
Subject: Re: Gyros, long sad story
Date: Apr 07, 1999
Gee, and I thought I was the only person who had problems with gyros. I bought all brand new vacuum equipment and Sigma Tek gyros. The attitude indicator was internally lighted, and very expensive. To make a long story short I went through the same process you did. After 3 times being rebuilt, they could not figure out what the problem was ( at this point I had 1,000 dollars into that stupid gyro ). So I bought the same model new again, and never had a problem with it ( go figure ). Since I do fly it IFR, I was not going to risk it. In fact, I also have an electric attitude indicator for redundancy ( It has not been modified for the RV6A panel tilt, so it is not precise in how it reacts, but it is adequate for backup purposes. ) Make sure you get the gyros modified for panel tilt if you are using them in real IFR conditions. RV6A 125 TT Scott Johnson scottj(at)ais.net -----Original Message----- From: Marian Rendall & Scott Sawby <mkr(at)netw.com> Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 3:38 AM Subject: RV-List: Gyros, long sad story > >I'm hoping someone on the list knows enough about gyros to shed some light >on my problem, I'm at my wits end. > >I installed IFR brand gyros in my RV-6A. I know from the archives that >other prople have been less than thrilled with this brand and they are now >out of business, which may say something. Nevertheless, they were not >cheap gyros, I could have had either of the other major brands for the same >price. I bought them because they were a little shorter and I thought they >would be easier to get in and out with the sub panel. > >Anyway, I got my plane flying and neither my DG or Attitude worked. This >was probably my fault, it was over a year from the time I bought them to >the time I got flying. Gyros don't like to sit around inactive. > >I had them rebuilt at about $200 ea. They still didn't work. Sent them >back a second time and had them rebuilt. They still didn't work, only $100 >this time. I had them rebuilt a third time and this time the DG worked and >still does, but not the attitude, it has been several months. IFR was out >of business, but they were sending them to some instrument repair place in >Wichita. These people are telling me that the bearings are trashed and I >am "abusing them". In discussing this with them they sound convinced that >I am dropping them. > >Anyway I decided I wasn't going to spend any more money on this IFR >Attitude gyro, so I bit the bullet and ordered an R C Allen. I Installed it >a week or so ago, it worked fair for a couple of hours (did what it was >supposed to but not particularly accurately). Yesterday it tumbled after I >turned the engine off and it was winding down. It did the same thing this >AM and by this afternoon it had gone tits up. The display either spins or >stabilizes at some weird attitude. > >Tomorrow I am going to have my local mechanic put a gauge on my vacuum >system and see if I am getting the vacuum that my gauge says I am, but I'm >not hopeful that is my problem. The DG seems to be doing fine and I have a >new regulator in the line. > >I am wondering if RV's just kill them through vibration. I don't think my >plane vibrates excessively, in fact people have told me it runs pretty >smooth. Yet I don't have the gyros on any sort of rubber mounted sub >panel. Has anyone on the list had success with gyros just mounted in the >main panel? > >My other theory is maybe you just can't ship these things. They come >packed in a lot of foam, but I've seen they way the UPS people handle >packages. > >I would really appreciate it if anyone has any information that may be of >use to me. > >Scott Sawby N341SS 130 hrs. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Re: Cowl Pins
Date: Apr 07, 1999
>For those folks with flying RV-6 or 6A and using hinge pins to secure the >bottom of the cowling to the fuselage, do you secure these bottom pins Randy In 200 hours I have had no problem with cracks, broken hinges etc. on my RV6. I did rivit on a small plate and put one screw on the inboard side of each hinge ( closest to the exhaust pipes). The hinge itself is bent to form an "L" with the short end about 2 inches, just enough to give you something to pull on. I do not have anything to hold the pins in. They have never moved. All hinges on my cowl were installed with a very light coat of proseal between the cowl and hinge. Has worked great so far. > When painting your cowls be sure to mask of the hinges. I got paint overspray into mine and had an awful time getting my long cowl pins in. Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH Salmon Arm B.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pump
Date: Apr 07, 1999
> >Larry Pardue, > >Hi Larry, > >Have been following this thread and noted that no one has commented about >you running the engine with the wings off. This is not a good Idea. I >know of at least one builder that wrecked on of his elevators doing this >. His name is Pat Carr (woodsboat(at)aol.com) You might check with him >before running it this way again. I believe that Van's cautions against >this too. > >About the pump--Facet specifies that it be mounted at a 45 Deg. angle >with the inlet lower than the outlet, is this the case in your >installation? > Bill, I have not heard of this caution before and do not believe I have read it in any material from Van's. I got the idea from watching George's videotape. How was the elevator damaged? I can't think of any reason not to do this. In any case I am not planning to run it again until the wings are mounted for the final time. My pump is mounted exactly per plans and I have spent enough time with it now to know it pumps fuel fine but will not self prime even after having been full of fuel. I still am not sure if this is a defective pump on not. I think I have met you. I looked at a beautiful 4 with a prince prop at Sun and Fun several years ago. It was owned by Bill Davis. I even inquired about buying it. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6Q N441LP Madly sanding filler to get ready for inspection 4/22 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rquinn1(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 08, 1999
Subject: Canopy Installation sequence
I an finishing the last wing for my RV6A and should have the fuselage kit here by the end of this month, but I have a question for a friend of mine who is near installation of his engine and he would like to delay the installation of the sliding canopy until he has finished cutting the firewall and completed other connections before he installs the canopy. He has completed the alignment of the canopy frame and feels that he can get around inside the forward part of the fuselage by not having the canopy and wind shield in the way. He also thinks that he can better protect the canopy by completing most of the inside work before installation. He ask me to quize the RV list to see what you RV builders think about his plan. Thanks for your help. Rollie RV6A Fuselage on the way RQuinn1(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com>
Subject: Re: Snow flying (rebroadcast)
Date: Apr 08, 1999
Buster, remove the "do-not-archive" from your vocabulary. I enjoy the fact that I can find your thoughts in the archive when I need inspiring. Not many can articulate themselves as you. this rebroadcast is for posterity. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program......... Want me to tell you what I have been up to with flinging the old RV around the peaks ? RAIN and lots of it for 40 days and 40 nights and then some, made for dark days and no flying except for all the Bravo Sierra in the coffee shop. Then, the dawn broke clear and bright one day in this land of the Northern Lights, and that was the signal we were waiting for to roll open the doors, roll out the RV and have at it with a vengeance. What comes to mind is the hitching up of the dogs, as you truck out the harness and they know they are in for adventure....they can't wait..and the lead chews out the next guy and so on down the line until all are in place and ready...and off we go. But, in our case, there is no blood unless it is from catching the finger on the fuel strain, we climb in, hit the starter, run that prop up so that the blast is almost seminal and get ourselves out on the button to blast off. BTW, did I mention that we are also Rocket country here ?...Yes we are, but I am flying a mere RV. I head North, climbing at full bore and soon am at the alpine meadows, 15 minutes from the city, but a world away from civilization, and find myself "out back" where at 6,000 plus, I see the scars of ski trails in the virgin snow and it is mighty cold. If I went down here, I could be lost for 40 years, and that is a fact. But the RV is a marvelous steed the like of which you will likely not encounter anywhere else in the realm of airplanes. This is no place for me, though the beauty draws me like a magnet, I am uncomfortable close to the peaks, and nobody knows I am here. With a deft suggestion of right aileron, we reverse course and the land falls away and we have loads of altitude. I am "high" and very happy.. what a magic carpet I have...it gets warmer and I feel good and in the glow, I drop the nose, bring back the stick just a hint, and we go up and over..the horizon is at the top of my head and the green comes back as I see barns and cows and fields assume their proper place and we are showing 190 plus..it feels so grand, I must repeat it. Am I entitled to feel such glory at my sedate and responsible age ?? I think to reason this question, I must try a most exquisite and slow barrel roll that takes me 2 miles to complete. What else can I tell you about myself and my "oneness" with this wonderful RV ?? I am blessed, and make of that what you will, but Van has opened a vista to all of us RVer's that is not likely to come our way again, anytime soon. What a feeling of self and what we do !!!! Now, out of reach of controllers, where the free spirit runs unchecked, I point the nose downhill and listen to the wind around the windscreen and watch the clock climb upward, and how can you suppress the smile ? even when you are alone ?? Down, down, flashing over the beach like no Cessna ever could, nor want to,..I see a tanker, probably laden with fuel for the enemy, and I strike out after it and beat it up, climbing away , engine running hard, climbing in a "g" laden arc, that lets me look back at the wake of the tanker I have just shot up, and I swear the wide, white, wake looks just like the smoke streaming from a stricken foe as I turn a 180, seeing I can do no more, and head back where good fellows wait. Landing, carrier approach as always, no long 5 mile gaggling drag in as a 172 does, I am filled with the thrill of speed and abrupt maneuver and it doesn't go away that fast nor that easily....I am pumped, and I must land a fighter like a fighter should be landed. With panache, pride of ridership and some skill... I see the prop now, ..could not before, we are fast, but not unduly so... the strip lays before me, black, not so wide, not so long, but straight and familiar.. I chop the throttle..round out very slightly, keep the spinner just where I have told you many times before..and we touch ....just like that...and only that...open the canopy, slide it back..listen to the exhaust bark as the prop slows..we slow.. and turn off... Could you ask for a better day ??? .. feel grand ??? time doesn't mean anything..we are consumed in the moment...what else matters ?? All that remains is to debrief..(lie a lot), to the hangar rats,..my dear friends all, put the steed to bed...wet, and rode hard...listen to the "ticks" of the cooling ..love it..and close the doors. I will take you with me next time if you like...this is too good not to share.... .......Buster,...bent,...bleeding..but not broken... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: holy s...
>>I took a look at the fuel sender. Holy cow, the resistance element for >>the sender is completely exposed to the fuel! I hope someone >>can explain why the fuel doesn't blow up once the fuel level goes below >>the sender. I assume there is very little current going through it, but >>still, it looks really dangerous. Is this normal? > >Yes. As far as I know, this is common in virtually all light aircraft that >do not use corks (at the low end) or capacitance guages (at the high end) > > Stuart Spindel A&P IA > As long as there is liquid fuel in a tank, the atmosphere above the liquid is saturated far beyond stoichiometric (explosive) ratios and cannot be ignited. Further, materials chosen and electrical energies applied to the senders are chosen to be spark free and/or of such low magnitude that it cannot ignite a stoichiometric mixture. This type of 'sender' has been around for over 50 years in automobiles. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Independence Kansas: the > < Jurasic Park of aviation. > < Your source for brand new > < 40 year old airplanes. > ================================ http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator
>Many of the North Texas RV's are using a Ford 60 amp alternator. This unit >is basically the same size as the Cessna described above (the internals are >sightly different). To make it fit we are doing the following: > >Remove the fan and run a 3/4" blast tube from the front baffle to the fornt >of the alternator or induce the air by drilling a 3/4' hole in the back of >the case and attaching a fitting ot take the 3/4"tube. This cooling method >is more efficient since it brings ambient air to the alternator rather than >already quite hot under the cowling air. > >Use a pulley no larger than 3"diameter and get a drive belt that allows the >alternator to be all the way up against the engine case. > >Glue a hard rubber block (use Pro Seal) to the inside of the cowling >positioned so that the alternator case hits the rubber block before the >pulley chews on the cowl. High speed can push tho cowl inward a bit and ary >G-loads cause the engine to sag momentarily resulting in contact between >cowl and pulley even when you have 1/2" clearance at rest. The rubber block >will keep that from happening. Whew!!! why not run a stock Nipon-Dienso 60 amp machine that's about 3 pounds lighter, doesn't need an external fan or blast tube, is smaller in diameter and available from salvage yards for 25-50 dollars? Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Independence Kansas: the > < Jurasic Park of aviation. > < Your source for brand new > < 40 year old airplanes. > ================================ http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 08, 1999
Subject: Re: Gyros, long sad story
In a message dated 4/7/99 7:10:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mkr(at)netw.com writes: << I installed IFR brand gyros in my RV-6A. I know from the archives that other prople have been less than thrilled with this brand and they are now out of business, which may say something.>> Possibly. My gyro maintenance buddy (Jeff Chambliss) said that they were not his first choice (or words to that effect), but I have the same IFR Gyros and they have worked swell since day one. It can't just be my good or your bad Karma. << I am wondering if RV's just kill them through vibration. I don't think my plane vibrates excessively, in fact people have told me it runs pretty smooth.>> I don't think that's it either, but dynamic balancing does a world of good for reducing wear on your airframe in general and I would think it money well spent, particularly if it's an O-360 with c/s. << Yet I don't have the gyros on any sort of rubber mounted sub panel. Has anyone on the list had success with gyros just mounted in the main panel? >> That's where mine are (hard mounted to the main panel of my 6A) and I've got 200 hrs on them including normal (not overly strenuous) acro. Maybe you got a lemon. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 08, 1999
Subject: Re: ADC REMOTE OIL FILTER
In a message dated 4/7/99 7:16:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lothark(at)worldnet.att.net writes: << Dick, can you tell us more about this remote oil filter like cost, suppliers, installation etc? >> I wouldn't get too excited about the Oberg (ADC) filter. They have been extensively tested and found to be inferior to the standard spin on type in terms of particulate removal. LPM, TBO Advisor and Howard Fenton have the info. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 08, 1999
Subject: Re: Cowl Pins
In a message dated 4/7/99 8:55:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, hmsutter(at)flash.net writes: << Many of us who have several hundreds of hours on our RV6's have found that the bottom hinges will fail and have replaced them with a .063" plate and 5 nutplates and screws per side. >> I would second this opinion. I have 200 hrs on my 6A and have lost the first two innermost hinge eyes on the cowling right side. I expect to convert these to plates, nutplates and screws in the not too distant future. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy Installation sequence
I see no problem with your buddies plan except he may install something that could interfere with the forward skin and windscreen. I built my canopy and windscreen and it now sits in a dark corner of the basement collecting dust. After finishing engine and instrument stuff I will finally permanently install the windscreen forward skin. Gary Zilik Rquinn1(at)aol.com wrote: > > I an finishing the last wing for my RV6A and should have the fuselage kit > here by the end of this month, but I have a question for a friend of mine who > is near installation of his engine and he would like to delay the > installation of the sliding canopy until he has finished cutting the firewall > and completed other connections before he installs the canopy. He has > completed the alignment of the canopy frame and feels that he can get around > inside the forward part of the fuselage by not having the canopy and wind > shield in the way. He also thinks that he can better protect the canopy by > completing most of the inside work before installation. He ask me to quize > the RV list to see what you RV builders think about his plan. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 1999
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Damage running engine without wings; was Facet Fuel Pump
In my builders manual (6A) ,or some where in all my rvators, Van's cautions against running the engine without the complete and finished airframe. States that structural damage could occur. I am not in my shop at the moment and will research this a little more and post my findings. Gary Zilik > > >Have been following this thread and noted that no one has commented about > >you running the engine with the wings off. This is not a good Idea. I > >know of at least one builder that wrecked on of his elevators doing this > >. I have not heard of this caution before and do not believe I have read it > in > any material from Van's. I got the idea from watching George's videotape. > How was the elevator damaged? I can't think of any reason not to do this. > In any case I am not planning to run it again until the wings are mounted > for the final time. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy Installation sequence
Date: Apr 07, 1999
>I have a question for a friend of mine who >is near installation of his engine and he would like to delay the >installation of the sliding canopy until he has finished cutting the firewall I built the fuselage including the canopy (slider) but left the top forward skin un-riveted, and cut and fitted the windscreen but didn't permanently install it. Then I removed the all of it including the roll bar while I did all my firewall forward work and instrument panel. Just last week I finally went back and riveted on the topskin and final installed the roll bar and windscreen, and am right now doing the windscreen fairing. I'm glad I did it this way, it really would have been in the way if I'd left it on. Some people rivet on the front topskin but leave the bottom front skin off and work from . I think others leave BOTH of them off. Don't know which is better but it worked ok for me this way. Randall Henderson, RV-6 (fairings/finish) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing randallh(at)home.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 1999
From: "Marshall M. Dues" <mmdues@hal-pc.org>
Subject: Re: Ques Wiring ? KT76A with "NARCO 850" encoder
Let's see, now...Narco AR-850...ah, yes, here 'tis: AR-850 Encoder Wire KT-76A connector Function connector Notes: -------- ------------ --------- ------------------------ 13 +DC Input (Thru a 2 amp fuse or CB) 10 Airframe GND DC ground 22 Enable Connect to a GND 19 A1 P1-M 17 B1 P1-E 21 C1 P1-D 20 A2 P1-K 16 B2 P1-C Altitude data bit lines 14 C2 P1-L 18 A4 P1-J 15 B4 P1-B 24 C4 P1-H 4 Oven jumper Connect pin 4 to pin 9 9 Oven jumper to enable the oven This data was copied from Narco AR-850 Altitude Reporter Installation/ Operation Manual part number 03753-0620 dated July 1988. Hope this is useful for anyone installing these radios. Marshall Dues RV-6, N243MD 200 hrs DWH arpt (Houston area) McManD(at)aol.com wrote: > > > Well I blew that!~~~ > > Great help from you guys.... for those who know what they are asking for! > Thanks Marshall Dues for the great details....but > > It was late and all those tiny numbers sorry listers...here goes again; > > I'm wiring a Narco AR 850 encoder to my KT76A. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Paul_Imhof(at)Dell.com
Subject: Engine Mounts for Aerobatics
Date: Apr 08, 1999
Louis, Is there a problem on long term engine alignment with regular mounts? I have now been flying my RV-8 for about ten months. So far, my engine has not sagged at all. The spinner is still in the same relation to the cowling as day one. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 1999
From: Stuart Summers <stuartrv(at)powerup.com.au>
Subject: RV6 Aileron and Flap position
I am requesting information on behalf of another RV6 builder who is a non internet user. Has anyone mounted the flaps and ailerons closer in an upwards direction to the top skin. Closer is about 3/8" in an effort to increase performance.???? Please reply to: bactech(at)bigpond.com.au ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lousmith(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 08, 1999
Subject: Re: Engine Mounts for Aerobatics
In a message dated 4/8/99 5:25:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Paul_Imhof(at)Dell.com writes: Louis, Is there a problem on long term engine alignment with regular mounts? I have now been flying my RV-8 for about ten months. So far, my engine has not sagged at all. The spinner is still in the same relation to the cowling as day one. >> Paul, I have only read post here on the RV-list cautioning that most installations seem to sag about 1/8 to 1/4 inch after a short while. I don't have first hand experience with this, so some others on the list would be better qualified to comment on this subject. Louis Smith ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 1999
From: "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com>
Subject: Re: Gyros, long sad story
Sorry to hear about your gyro problems, Scott. I also purchased IFR gyros because they were shorter and fit behind my tilt up canopy instrument panel. The AI never worked from day one and I replaced it with an RC Allen which works fine thus far. My IFR DG appeared to work for a while but now has taken to spinning on engine shut down, so that bodes ill for its continued functionality. Scary to think of flying IMC with the quality of gyos we see. Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW 32 hours Vienna, VA Marian Rendall & Scott Sawby wrote: > > > I'm hoping someone on the list knows enough about gyros to shed some light > on my problem, I'm at my wits end. > > I installed IFR brand gyros in my RV-6A. I know from the archives that > other prople have been less than thrilled with this brand and they are now > out of business, which may say something. Nevertheless, they were not > cheap gyros, I could have had either of the other major brands for the same > price. I bought them because they were a little shorter and I thought they > would be easier to get in and out with the sub panel. > > Anyway, I got my plane flying and neither my DG or Attitude worked. This > was probably my fault, it was over a year from the time I bought them to > the time I got flying. Gyros don't like to sit around inactive. > > I had them rebuilt at about $200 ea. They still didn't work. Sent them > back a second time and had them rebuilt. They still didn't work, only $100 > this time. I had them rebuilt a third time and this time the DG worked and > still does, but not the attitude, it has been several months. IFR was out > of business, but they were sending them to some instrument repair place in > Wichita. These people are telling me that the bearings are trashed and I > am "abusing them". In discussing this with them they sound convinced that > I am dropping them. > > Anyway I decided I wasn't going to spend any more money on this IFR > Attitude gyro, so I bit the bullet and ordered an R C Allen. I Installed it > a week or so ago, it worked fair for a couple of hours (did what it was > supposed to but not particularly accurately). Yesterday it tumbled after I > turned the engine off and it was winding down. It did the same thing this > AM and by this afternoon it had gone tits up. The display either spins or > stabilizes at some weird attitude. > > Tomorrow I am going to have my local mechanic put a gauge on my vacuum > system and see if I am getting the vacuum that my gauge says I am, but I'm > not hopeful that is my problem. The DG seems to be doing fine and I have a > new regulator in the line. > > I am wondering if RV's just kill them through vibration. I don't think my > plane vibrates excessively, in fact people have told me it runs pretty > smooth. Yet I don't have the gyros on any sort of rubber mounted sub > panel. Has anyone on the list had success with gyros just mounted in the > main panel? > > My other theory is maybe you just can't ship these things. They come > packed in a lot of foam, but I've seen they way the UPS people handle > packages. > > I would really appreciate it if anyone has any information that may be of > use to me. > > Scott Sawby N341SS 130 hrs. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: Engine Mounts for Aerobatics
Date: Apr 08, 1999
Louis & Paul, After 1300 Hrs on my O-320D1A with regular Lord mounts, my engine has sagged about 5/16". I'm now seriously considering replacing them...... Fred Stucklen N925RV RV-6A E. Windsor, Ct > -----Original Message----- > From: Lousmith(at)aol.com [SMTP:Lousmith(at)aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 6:40 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Mounts for Aerobatics > > > I have now been flying my RV-8 for about ten > months. So far, my engine has not sagged at all. > The spinner is still in the same relation to the > cowling as day one. > >> > Paul, > I have only read post here on the RV-list cautioning that most > installations > seem to sag about 1/8 to 1/4 inch after a short while. I don't have first > > hand experience with this, so some others on the list would be better > qualified to comment on this subject. > > Louis Smith > > > > - > > - > > - > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: Gyros, long sad story
Date: Apr 08, 1999
Ed, I replaced my IFR Gyro after numerous problems. It had about 1100 Hrs on it with three overhauls. The RC Allen so far has held up with about 200 hours on it.... Fred Stucklen N925RV RV-6A E. Windsor, Ct > -----Original Message----- > From: Anderson Ed [SMTP:anderson_ed(at)bah.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 7:15 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Gyros, long sad story > > > Sorry to hear about your gyro problems, Scott. I also purchased IFR > gyros because they were shorter and fit behind my tilt up canopy > instrument panel. The AI never worked from day one and I replaced it > with an RC Allen which works fine thus far. My IFR DG appeared to work > for a while but now has taken to spinning on engine shut down, so that > bodes ill for its continued functionality. Scary to think of flying IMC > with the quality of gyos we see. > > Ed Anderson > RV-6A N494BW 32 hours > Vienna, VA > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 1999
From: "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com>
Subject: Re: Gyros, long sad story
Fred, I did not even get 1 hour out of my AI and the IFR DG looks like it is headed south after approx 30 hours. I sort of had a bad feeling about the IFR gyros when I noticed that a number of the gyro overhaul places would not accept IFRs as a core. They have a nice face and are compact, but clearly have reliability/durability problems. Does not surprise me they are no longer in business. Hopefully, my RC AI lasts longer. Ed Anderson N494BW RV-6A Vienna, VA Stucklen, Frederic IFC wrote: > > > Ed, > > I replaced my IFR Gyro after numerous problems. It had about 1100 Hrs on > it with three overhauls. The RC Allen so far has held up with about 200 > hours on it.... > > Fred Stucklen > N925RV RV-6A > E. Windsor, Ct > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Anderson Ed [SMTP:anderson_ed(at)bah.com] > > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 7:15 AM > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Gyros, long sad story > > > > > > Sorry to hear about your gyro problems, Scott. I also purchased IFR > > gyros because they were shorter and fit behind my tilt up canopy > > instrument panel. The AI never worked from day one and I replaced it > > with an RC Allen which works fine thus far. My IFR DG appeared to work > > for a while but now has taken to spinning on engine shut down, so that > > bodes ill for its continued functionality. Scary to think of flying IMC > > with the quality of gyos we see. > > > > Ed Anderson > > RV-6A N494BW 32 hours > > Vienna, VA > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lousmith(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 08, 1999
Subject: Re: Engine Mounts for Aerobatics
In a message dated 4/8/99 8:51:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com writes: Louis & Paul, After 1300 Hrs on my O-320D1A with regular Lord mounts, my engine has sagged about 5/16". I'm now seriously considering replacing them...... Fred Stucklen N925RV RV-6A E. Windsor, Ct >> Fred, I have heard of some people shimming the bottom mounts with an extra washer or two to bring the engine back in line. Are you going down to SNF this year? If so and passing through eastern NC on the way, I can provide hanger or tiedown on Friday night. I also can top you off with 100LL REALLY cheap! I will be leaving early Sat. morning for SNF. Louis Smith RV-8 N801RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Nielsen" <Mark.Nielsen@fiedler-lp.com>
Subject: Engine Mounts - Fixing a Sagging Engine
Date: Apr 08, 1999
> I have only read post here on the RV-list cautioning that most > installations > seem to sag about 1/8 to 1/4 inch after a short while. I don't > have first > hand experience with this, so some others on the list would be better > qualified to comment on this subject. I have 328 hours on my RV-6 in two years. The engine (O-320 D2J, Sensenich metal prop) has sagged about 1/4". I used standard engine mounts, which I purchased from Van's. Unfortunately, I didn't learn about setting the engine high (or rather the cowling low) until after I was flying. To correct the problem, I am considering installing shims between the engine mount and the firewall at the four lower attach points. Does anyone have any comments on the advisability of this? Is there another fix that would work better? Mark Nielsen Green Bay, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 1999
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wing tips and lights
> Need lots of good input and opinions on mounting > position lights and strobe light. Opinions abound. Just wait. Here's my own. > Question is...what do you think looks best ? Ahhh... you abdicate your responsibility as an RV builder (repeat offender no less!) to make it the way _you_ think it looks best. > Mounting position lights and strobe on an angle,.. > e.g. flush with underside of wingtip or forming > up a fibreglass mount that sits the whole works > vertical like ?? But since you ask, you really should push the lights out there rather than flush on the bottom dside of the tip. I don't think you will have full coverage of your position lights otherwise. I intend to do this with mine - either from Van's parts or roll my own; will have to see how I like working fiberglass. > I was going to make the tip removable and decided > to hell with it for two reasons. > One was not enough #6 plate nuts ( I need at least > 72)... Two, was, ..how many times are you going to > want to remove the damn tip anyway ?? > I am leaning strongly to mounting on an > angle,..cutting out a square > access hole about 5" square to get at the strobe > power pack if I need to and let it go at that... > Think that looks OK ??? what would you do ??? You have mentioned the only reason I can think of to make them removeable, and that's only if you mount the power supply on the tip rib. If you put it on the main spar in the same bay as your landing light (assuming you have a leading edge light) you'll be able to access it through the light hole. Good luck! Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H. Martin Sutter" <hmsutter(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Engine Mounts - Fixing a Sagging Engine
Date: Apr 08, 1999
From: Mark Nielsen <Mark.Nielsen@fiedler-lp.com> Subject: RV-List: Engine Mounts - Fixing a Sagging Engine > > I have only read post here on the RV-list cautioning that most > > installations > > seem to sag about 1/8 to 1/4 inch after a short while........ Mark: You do not have to place shims under the engine mount at the fire wall. The easier fix is to add one large washer each between the lower rubber mounts and the engine. This is permissible as long as the engine mount bolts still are long enough for nut and cotter pin (you might be able to eliminate a washer from the front side if you have more than one there). One washer brings the enigine up about 1/4". As far as mounting the cowl 1/4" low in the beginnig that may not always be the answer either. I mounted my cowl to fit the spinner and after 1,350hrs and eight years everything is still in the same place - no sag. I used Barry Controls mounts from Van's. However I have seen may installations where sag did occur, usually very shortly after the first flight. That makes me wonder if the mounts were not seated properly at the time of engine istallation. When I install an engine I raise and lower it several times with the hoist after all four bolts are in and the nuts are snug but not fully torqued. This allows the mounts to align and seat themselves. So far none of the engines I helped install this way have sagged. Martin Sutter N868CM 1,350hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: Engine Mounts for Aerobatics
Date: Apr 08, 1999
Louis, I'm leaving early Sat Morning myself, but will stay with my parents on the East cost of Florida (Sabastian) and fly over daily. I plan on leaving for home again (CT) on Tue morning. Plan is to stop at Duplin Co A/P, winds permitting. Otherwise, it's Suffic Co Virginia and probably Ocalla Florida. Where are you based? Maybe on the return, or some other time.... Fred Stucklen N925RV RV-6A E. Windsor, Ct > -----Original Message----- > From: Lousmith(at)aol.com [SMTP:Lousmith(at)aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 10:18 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Mounts for Aerobatics > > > In a message dated 4/8/99 8:51:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com writes: > > > > Louis & Paul, > > After 1300 Hrs on my O-320D1A with regular Lord mounts, my engine > has > sagged about 5/16". I'm now seriously considering replacing > them...... > > Fred Stucklen > N925RV RV-6A > E. Windsor, Ct > >> > > Fred, > I have heard of some people shimming the bottom mounts with an extra > washer > or two to bring the engine back in line. Are you going down to SNF > this > year? If so and passing through eastern NC on the way, I can provide > hanger > or tiedown on Friday night. I also can top you off with 100LL REALLY > cheap! > I will be leaving early Sat. morning for SNF. > > Louis Smith > RV-8 N801RV > > > > ----- > > ----- > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ----- > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Gyros, long sad story
Date: Apr 08, 1999
From all the problems listed, there must be a reason that certified planes have shock mounted panels. -----Original Message----- From: Anderson Ed <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 8:21 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Gyros, long sad story > >Fred, > >I did not even get 1 hour out of my AI and the IFR DG looks like it is >headed south after approx 30 hours. I sort of had a bad feeling about >the IFR gyros when I noticed that a number of the gyro overhaul places >would not accept IFRs as a core. They have a nice face and are compact, >but clearly have reliability/durability problems. Does not surprise me >they are no longer in business. Hopefully, my RC AI lasts longer. > >Ed Anderson >N494BW RV-6A >Vienna, VA > >Stucklen, Frederic IFC wrote: >> >> >> Ed, >> >> I replaced my IFR Gyro after numerous problems. It had about 1100 Hrs on >> it with three overhauls. The RC Allen so far has held up with about 200 >> hours on it.... >> >> Fred Stucklen >> N925RV RV-6A >> E. Windsor, Ct >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Anderson Ed [SMTP:anderson_ed(at)bah.com] >> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 7:15 AM >> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Gyros, long sad story >> > >> > >> > Sorry to hear about your gyro problems, Scott. I also purchased IFR >> > gyros because they were shorter and fit behind my tilt up canopy >> > instrument panel. The AI never worked from day one and I replaced it >> > with an RC Allen which works fine thus far. My IFR DG appeared to work >> > for a while but now has taken to spinning on engine shut down, so that >> > bodes ill for its continued functionality. Scary to think of flying IMC >> > with the quality of gyos we see. >> > >> > Ed Anderson >> > RV-6A N494BW 32 hours >> > Vienna, VA >> > >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bktrub(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 08, 1999
Subject: Re: Fwd: Church Kids Say the Darndest Things
Those things are no more silly than what adults pray for, and the prayer are just as effective. Brian Trubee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 08, 1999
Subject: Re: Engine Mounts - Fixing a Sagging Engine
<< To correct the problem, I am considering installing shims between the engine mount and the firewall at the four lower attach points. Does anyone have any comments on the advisability of this? Is there another fix that would work better? >> Mark & List, Its pretty much a common occurance for the engine to sag about a quarter of an inch if your using the new mounts supplied by Vans. I dont know of any one who I fly with who hasnt experienced this. There are two ways to correct for this problem. #1. When installing the cowl assembly set it up so that the rear top edge of the spinner is about a quarter inch above the cowl. After 100hrs or so (probably less) the engine will settle into place. #2, Simply install one of the large washers like the kind suplied with the mounts between the mount pad on the engine and the mount its self. This can be done by loosening one of the lower mounts and pulling the bolt back some on the other. Then have a friend lift on the front of the engine, at the same time slip in the washer. Repeat the process for the other side. This will lift the engine up about a quarter inch. I had to do step 2 on my engine, and after the initial shimming it has not moved since. Ryan Bendure Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 1999
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: transponder altitude encoder general info
The recent questions about wiring an altitude encoder prompted me to reexamine some of my paperwork and make a few comments. The original altitude encoders were mechanical things. They were essentially a standard altimeter with an optical encoder in place of the hands in the mechanism. In fact, this type of encoder even looks like an altimeter without a face (same shape and size generally). This type of encoder is relatively expensive ($500 or so) and expensive to overhaul ($200 or so). It does have the advantage that, as soon as you apply power, it puts out a good signal. A couple of years back someone discovered that the electronics industry had come up with a small pressure transducer that was essentially built into a chip. These pressure transducers are cheap (on the order of $10) especially when you compare them to the older electromechanical encoders. This made the current crop of small, relatively inexpensive ($150-$300) solid-state encoders possible. But these little pressure transducers have a characteristic that the electromechanical encoders don't have; they are *very* temperature sensitive. Unless you can keep them always at exactly the same temperature they can not meet accuracy specs. So the manufacturers build in an "oven", a heater that heats up the pressure transducer to a temperature that is higher than ambient and then keeps it there. The units are calibrated at this higher temperature. What this means to you is that, somehow, these boxes need extra power to power the oven heater. Also, most of these units will not generate a signal to the transponder until the oven heats up to operating temperature. This is why the instructions say that the encoder will not produce a signal until some 5-10 minutes after power is applied (worst case if the unit is sub freezing when you turn it on). Where I got burned by the oven (pun intended) is with my Terra transponder. I wired my encoder as I have in other aircraft ... where I used a common transponder like a King KT-76A or a Narco AT-150. These transponders have a standby position on the power switch (off-standby-on-altitude). When I start the airplane and turn on the avionics, I turn the transponder to standby. By the time I taxi out and am ready to take off, enough time has passed and the encoder is warmed up and working. Not so with the Terra. As I was doing my installation I noticed that Terra had provided a second power input to their encoder for the heater. Clever me thought, "I don't need that since the heater will also run off the power from the transponder." What I didn't pay attention to is the fact that the Terra transponder doesn't have a standby position on the selector switch. It just has off-on-alt. You see, unlike most transponders, the Terra unit has no vacuum tubes (the KT-76A and the AT-150 still have tubes that need to warm up) so it will start working just as soon as you apply power. Not so the encoder. So now when I taxi out I have to turn my transponder to "on" so that the encoder will warm up. When I get out to the runway and do my run up, I turn it to "alt" just before take-off. This won't matter most places but I expect someday when I am at a big airport that has the radar at the airport to hear the tower tell me to turn off my transponder until I taxi into position for take-off. That means that, for a couple of minutes after I take off I am going to have to listen to ATC complain about not receiving my mode-C reply. Oh well ... Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 1999
From: Donald Farrand <dotndon(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 04/07/99
Larry n51p(at)carsbad.net I had an experience with the electric fuel pump that wouldn't self prime and learned it was a loose fitting upstream so that the pump wouldn't prime, but after I found that fitting loose and snugged it up, things started working ok. I flew an rv4 for over 5 years and just started flying the rv 6 last month...14 hours and going...but I noticed it takes longer for the '6 to get that "full" sound that I always listen for before turning the ignition switch. Don RV6 N164DF What fun! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 1999
From: Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com>
Subject: Instrument Panel (was) Intrument Panel
Laird, Yes, I forgot that there are 2 screws each side that go into an angle with the angle attached to the logeron/deck to secure it in addition to the 3 > >Dan Wiesel wrote: >>Also, Vans plans calls for a lot of rivets on the panel to attach the back >angle. All you need is 3 holes for screws on top of the panel for the >attachment to the "ribs".< > >Laird Owens wrote: >>I think the reason Van calls out "a lot of rivets" on the instrument panel >is that it is a structural member of the fuselage, and not just holding the >panel in place. It helps transfer a torsional load in the fuselage to the >skin. By only holding the panel with 3 screws you've eliminated that >bulkhead from the picture as far as being able to transfer these loads< > >Dennis Persyk wrote: >>What plane/canopy are you referring to? >In my 6/6A drawings, I find >Dwg 35 R6 2 screws, one in each end tab >Dwg 32 R8 4 screws, two in each F603 flange. I count six screws >(structural -- 125,000 PSI) holding the instrument panel.< > >That last question got me thinking. I was talking about the -6 "slider", as that's what I'm building. I went back and looked at my plans and studied the -6 "tip up". It has a shorter deck skin, with a slightly different sub structure, that terminates at the sub panel. Since this was the first design for the -6, I'm assuming that Van did a stress analysis of this design, and that the short deck was deemed acceptable in the torsional mode. > >The "slider" has a longer deck skin coming back to the instrument panel. I said that I thought that taking the instrument panel out of the picture, by not attaching it using all the screws called out, would weaken the ability of the fuselage to take torsional loads. > >So I'll back pedal a little and say that I still think that it would weaken the fuse in that mode, but since the "tip up" does exactly that, and that's ok by Van, it would probably be fine in the "slider". > >So, I attaching the panel with 3 screws may be ok when looking at torsional stiffness. > >Dan wrote back: >But, would it be possible to rivet the back angle we are talking about to >the skin(glareshield) with the 2.5"spacing, and then only use the three >screws for the panel attachment. > >Dan, >That's what I thought you were talking about, i.e., riveting the angle to the skin, then screwing the panel to the angle. I still think 3 screws is too few. I would at least add one more in each corner of the panel at the F-621A/longeron. > >I would not want to support the panel from just 3 screws in tension from the upper skin. > >By putting all of the screws in as shown in the plans, you would be getting the additional stiffness that the "slider" affords. > >Sincerely, >Laird >SoCal > > > Dan Dan Wiesel Interlink Recruiting 408-551-6554 dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvator97(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 08, 1999
Subject: Re: Cowl Pins
Re: 6A ... look at the plans. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "toverton" <toverton(at)zapcom.net>
Subject: Re: Engine Mounts - Fixing a Sagging Engine
Date: Apr 08, 1999
Builders Point 1 If you add a shim at the firewall you need to add less, to raise the front of the engine up the 1/4 inch because you are working with a longer arm length. Point 2 You are changing your thrust line less adding it at the firewall for the same reason. If you change it at the back of the engine you have to angle the engine (thrust line) more degrees to get the same amount of rise in the spinner. (think about it)...... Hope this helps Tom Overton Top Gun, Calif. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Engine Mounts - Fixing a Sagging Engine
Date: Apr 08, 1999
This is NOT correct. The sag is not in the mount. If the mount was welded up correctly, the sag is in the Rubber and that is where it should be corrected. It is was right when built, steel tube mounts do NOT sag. -----Original Message----- From: toverton <toverton(at)zapcom.net> Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 4:24 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Mounts - Fixing a Sagging Engine > >Builders >Point 1 If you add a shim at the firewall you need to add less, to raise >the front of the engine up the 1/4 inch because you are working with a >longer arm length. >Point 2 You are changing your thrust line less adding it at the firewall >for the same reason. If you change it at the back of the engine you have >to angle the engine (thrust line) more degrees to get the same amount of >rise in the spinner. (think about it)...... > >Hope this helps >Tom Overton >Top Gun, Calif. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gar & Jan Pessel" <pessel(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Wing tips and lights
Date: Apr 08, 1999
----- Original Message ----- From: Buster <6430(at)axion.net> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 3:50 PM Subject: RV-List: Wing tips and lights > > Need lots of good input and opinions on mounting position lights and strobe > light. I can only relate my experience using the RMD faired light system. Get Orndorff's video if you want to see what it looks like. This is a beautiful system, well built, etc. etc., looks gorgeous. However, fiberglass anythings never fit perfecfly, and the system proved to be enormously time consuming to install. Beware of watching the video when George says something like "you have to be careful in trimming this and I have done this and this is what it looks like" 30 seconds later. This is often hours. Lots of tiny little adjustments to get both the bulkhead insert and particularly the lens to fit correctly. The process is straightforward unless you try to hurry. The use of filler will be necessary in some places, particularly to get a smooth curve from the wing leading edge to the lens leading edge. It took me a couple of days for each tip (okay, I am very slow). At times I yearned for having chosen the "drill one hole in the tip and put the position-strobe-tail light in place. Could have done that in minutes. It probably will get me .2mph speed increase at cruise, at least 10mph increase when tied down. :-) Gar Pessel Fairbanks, AK rv6 qb electric flaps and controls ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 1999
From: Bob Paulovich <jonkarl(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: hs 602 tongue
the plans say to leave radius yet cut to have a flat tongue. bunny said leave and flatten in order to get the 3.25 inch distance between the 610 and 614. i get that distance without radius flatten. any suggestions??? btw, thanx for the advise guys on the 6 degree bends. oh yeah, have fun at sun see u all perhaps next yr or at osh this summer. drivin of course. bob in arkansas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 1999
From: L & M Rowles <lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au>
Subject: Re: Laser levels
> > >> >> I have told my sons what ever happens after I'm gone don't let my wife sell anything for what she believes I paid for it. Les Rowles Po Box 1895 Traralgon Australia 3844 lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 1999
From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pump
Larry Pardue wrote: > > > ****snip*** > > My pump is mounted exactly per plans and I have spent enough time with it > now to know it pumps fuel fine but will not self prime even after having > been full of fuel. I still am not sure if this is a defective pump on not. > >***snip > > Larry Pardue > Carlsbad, NM > > RV-6Q N441LP Madly sanding filler to get ready for inspection 4/22 I had this problem on a gas powered golf cart. Turned out to be a very..very...very small crack in the fuel line and it allowed just enough air in the line that it wouldn't draw the fuel. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6 wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: info(at)buildersbooks.com
Date: Apr 08, 1999
Subject: Vans new video is here
Vans new RV video is done, in stock, and ready to ship. Its longer than the first and very well done with lots of straight & level and aerobatic flying, RV history, and even some building instruction. The new tape has extensive coverage of the RV-8 and 8A, various quickbuild kits and even some on the new RV-9. Watch it when you can't look at another rivet or if you find its been too long since you've looked at one last; or to help a friend or relative understand your new obsession; or to help obsess yourself if you're still just considering making the commitment. Bargain price at $10. Order through our secure on-line catalog. (from the front page, click on Vans RV specific) Andy Gold RV-6A N-5060 (flying) Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 1999
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Ques Wiring ? KT76A with "NARCO 850" encoder
Give me a fax number or call me at (704) 361-3163 I have a wireing diagram. McManD(at)aol.com wrote: > > > Well I blew that!~~~ > > Great help from you guys.... for those who know what they are asking for! > Thanks Marshall Dues for the great details....but > > It was late and all those tiny numbers sorry listers...here goes again; > > I'm wiring a Narco AR 850 encoder to my KT76A. I bought both used, and got a > used harness with it too. But I do not know if the 2 were used > together....... I have the wiring diagram for the King KT76A. > > If someone had a wiring diagram for the Narco AR850 encoder and could fax, > scan, jpeg, bitmap and email or??? to me, that would be great. > > 3) Questions/Problems: > > a) Wiring in the King Manual, KT76A to King encoder doesn't seem to jive with > the 25 pin connector as it is currently wired. So I need to check it out I > guess......some encoders wire different? (Yes I found that our cause the ACK > encoder has a different pin plug compared to the NARCO..duh as I later was > advised...) > > b) There was a wire cut free and dangling from the harness....it goes to pin > # 13 in the 25 pin connector.....if It didn't go to transponder where did it > go? > > c) Ditto, there was another wire cut free and dangling from the harness....it > goes to both pins # 10 and # 22, in the 25 pin connector.....if It didn't go > to transponder where did it go? > > Thanks > David McManmon, RV6 Cicero NY > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Daniel H. Morris" <morristec(at)icdc.com>
Subject: Re: Gyros, long sad story
Date: Apr 08, 1999
Scott, I would be very suspicious of the vacuum plumbing and connections. It is interesting that the gyros will sort of work if plumbed backwards, just not very well. BTW I have IFR gyros that sat for 3 yrs before use and they work very well for about 50 hrs. now. Dan Morris RV6A >I installed IFR brand gyros in my RV-6A. I know from the archives that >other prople have been less than thrilled with this brand and they are now >out of business, which may say something. Nevertheless, they were not >cheap gyros, I could have had either of the other major brands for the same >price. I bought them because they were a little shorter and I thought they >would be easier to get in and out with the sub panel. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cd005677(at)mindspring.com
Date: Apr 08, 1999
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pump
---------- >From: "William R. Davis Jr" <rvpilot(at)Juno.com> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Facet Fuel Pump >Date: Wed, Apr 7, 1999, 7:42 PM > > > Larry Pardue, > > Hi Larry, > > Have been following this thread and noted that no one has commented about > you running the engine with the wings off. This is not a good Idea. I > know of at least one builder that wrecked on of his elevators doing this > . His name is Pat Carr (woodsboat(at)aol.com) You might check with him > before running it this way again. I believe that Van's cautions against > this too. I know of one other one--Bill Kowalewski had the same thing happen to his RV-4. he says his second set of elveators look better anyway James Freeman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MRawls3896(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 08, 1999
Subject: Re: Laser levels
Believe it or not, my wife is encouraging me to build the 6. Some lucky guy huh. Mike Rawls, enpenage on order ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Willey" <dwilley(at)Primenet.Com>
Subject: Interested Builder in California
Date: Apr 08, 1999
RVer's, I am considering building/buying an RV-4/8 and will be hosting the Harrier static display at the March AFB airshow this weekend in Riverside, CA. Would love to show you my airplane and talk with you about building an RV. Hope to see some of you out there. Sorry, no Harrier demo at this airshow. Dale Willey ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 1999
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Mounts - Fixing a Sagging Engine
toverton wrote: > > > Builders > Point 1 If you add a shim at the firewall you need to add less, to raise > the front of the engine up the 1/4 inch because you are working with a > longer arm length. > Point 2 You are changing your thrust line less adding it at the firewall > for the same reason. If you change it at the back of the engine you have > to angle the engine (thrust line) more degrees to get the same amount of > rise in the spinner. (think about it)...... > > Hope this helps > Tom Overton > Top Gun, Calif. > Tom If you shim at the engine you are just putting it back to its original position. If you shim under the mount at the firewall you change the geometry of the engine. Jerry (had to shim) Springer ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 1999
From: Scott Gesele <sgesele(at)usa.net>
Subject: Re: RV-6A "New" Nose Gear
I'm sorry, I can't resist.... For Christ's sakes, quit yer bitchin'........ Van's charged me $80 plus shipping for the new nose gear. For a grand total of $100 I sleep better at night knowing that a new, better nose gear is on my aircraft. Van's turned it around within 72 hours of receiving my old nose gear. That time included custom drilling a part off of their shelf to match my existing nose gear. Anybody out there think Cessna or Piper would have that turn around time and that cost for a "certified" part. According to Van's the reason the WD631 axle flange must be drilled 90 degrees to the old gear bolt hole is that it may make the nose gear last longer. Can you believe it, a manufacturer making a design change AFTER receiving test data that the change may improve the product. It took me a grand total of five minutes to drill the WD631 to accept the new nose gear. This was less time than it took to write this e-mail. It's all part of being an AIRCRAFT OWNER :) Off my soapbox, Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP > >John W. Fasching wrote: >> >> >> I decided to put on the new/improved/stronger RV-6A nose gear just to be on >> the safe side. (40% stronger) Today Van's notified me my turn on the >> waiting list had come up. Here's something I didn't know: You have to either >> drill the mounting hole yourself, or send the old nose gear leg to Van's for >> duplicate drilling. In itself this is not a big deal, only I sure hate to >> put the airplane out of service for a couple of weeks! Van's folks say they >> will give 3-day turnaround. It's just the darn shipping delays that are >> pain. Just thought others would like to know. >> FWIW >> RV-6A >> Salida, CO >> >John, >The rest of the story is you get to pay shipping both ways. It was >closer to 3 weeks off old gear on to new one. And..WD631 axle flange >must be drilled 90 degrees to the old gear bolt hole. > >Gary > >

April 01, 1999 - April 08, 1999

RV-Archive.digest.vol-gr