RV-Archive.digest.vol-gx
September 07, 1999 - September 12, 1999
| From: | Anthony J Castellano <tcastella(at)juno.com> |
Yes, I agree with Bob. I am using a push button switch for the starter
and a toggle switch for the electronic ignition. I get the engine turning
before I turn on the electronic
ignition.
Tony Castellano
tcastella(at)juno.com
Hopewell Junction, NY
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)access1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Jig |
Well, it wasn't too recent (about 3.5 years ago) but wood hasn't gone up
*that* much. I spent $50 in the TSO section of Home Depot, and about 10
hours on construction.
And yes, Garmin will certainly be my next GPS vendor...
Ed Bundy - Eagle, ID - RV6-A First flight 11/20/96
ebundy@access1.net http://home.cwix.com/~ebundy@cwix.com/
> Whom of you has built an RV6/6A fuselage jig recently. I know of a person
> wanting to unload a jig for free, but he is quite some distance from me.
I
> tabulated the gasoline bill to be about $85, and the drive is probably
close
> to eight hours one way.
> Needless to say, this would add expense to the trip. So, what is the cost
in
> time and materials to build this jig? Anyone??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randylervold(at)csi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hinge pins Vs screws |
> I have hinge pins on my RV-6 except across the bottom rear where I used
#10
> pan head
> screws and nut plates, and #8 screws/backing plate back of the spinner. No
> problems in over 20 minutes of flying.
>
> :-) < rv grin
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (flying)
> Portland, OR
> http://www.edt.com/homewing
Randall,
What? 20 minutes? That means you flew! Hey dude, congrats! Of course
pictures and a story for the newsletter will be mandatory. I'm sure the RV
List folks would appreciate a bit of narrative on the event also.
For those not from the Portland area, Randall few from Hillsboro (HIO),
apparently this past weekend, which was coincidentally the Homecoming. These
two airports are less than 5 miles apart. How appropriate!
Randy Lervold
RV-8, pretty excited about just finishing the canopy frame
Home Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Seager" <mseager(at)agalis.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hinge pins Vs screws |
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com>
Date: Monday, September 06, 1999 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Hinge pins Vs screws
Congradulations Randal !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sure glad we didnt have to hear about
them darn hinge pins again
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 cooling ramp (was HELP) |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
>Scott:
>Appreciate your post on the 8a numbers. They sound really good. Did
>you
>notice what oil temp you had during climb out?
-
In a long climb with the ground level OAT at 95 deg the oil temp will get
up to about 215 deg. F. or so. Seems to me (I am going to double check
when in PHX in Oct) that at 100 to 105 deg OAT ground temp the oil temp
would get up to as high as 225 after a climb out to altitude.
(Please note that as standard practice we do all our climbing to altitude
at a reduced power setting. After getting to 1000 ft. AGL or so we are
generally pulled back to 2500 rpm / 25 in. MP. Then we just keep pushing
up the throttle while climb to maintain 25 in. until we reach full
throttle. Then the RPM gets reduced after we level off).
Either of these temp conditions is totally acceptable... As long as it is
only happening during climb.
After leveling out the temps head back down towards 200 deg F.
Yes, 180 to 185 is a Lycoming recommended optimum operating temp but they
themselves will tell you that a red line of 245 deg. means just that.
That if you are operating in conditions hotter than what would be typical
in a lot of the country then you will likely have higher temps.
As long as you are able to stay below redline you are fine. Note that
the green arc goes all the way to the red line mark. There is no yellow
arc caution range. Many people get exited if they see 210 deg on an oil
temp gage because with most of the low performance certified aircraft
that they are accustomed to flying the never ever saw that.
Remember, these are high performance airplanes with cooling systems that
are designed to be adequate but not have any more cooling drag than
necessary. Even so they are still biased towards trying to keep builders
from having cooling problems (as indicated in the example of cruise power
CHT's on the RV-8A... 2 of the cylinders not even reaching 300 deg. F.)
-
>My 8a is getting closer to usable oil temps. We have modified the
>lower cowl
>by cutting and bending down about 2", thus providing a better air
>outlet.
>This has gotten oil temp down around 210, which is much better than
>before.
-
Personally, if still have rather warm temps were you are and this is the
oil temp you are getting cruise power in level flight, then I wouldn't do
anything else to it (at least for now). In real warm temps this is
probably acceptable.
What value CHT's do you have at this oil temp?
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "aeronut" <aeronut(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Jig |
Jim:
My -8 fuselage jig used $75-100 worth of and hardware lumber (I didn't keep
exact track, but used all new, well seasoned lumber except for some scrap
1/2" plywood used for gussets). It took about two evenings to build.
George
----- Original Message -----
From: <JNice51355(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 9:22 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fuselage Jig
>
> Whom of you has built an RV6/6A fuselage jig recently. I know of a person
> wanting to unload a jig for free, but he is quite some distance from me.
I
> tabulated the gasoline bill to be about $85, and the drive is probably
close
> to eight hours one way.
> Needless to say, this would add expense to the trip. So, what is the cost
in
> time and materials to build this jig? Anyone??
> Jim Nice
> RV6A(Wings)
> WA State
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christensen, Peter" <pchristensen(at)sel.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-List:Attaching ribs to rear HS spar |
Matt, in response to your two e-mails on attaching ribs to the HS spar, the
key is to use the skin as a template on where exactly to place the ribs. I
know it's a pain to do this, but I learned the hard way when doing my
vertical stabilizer. I thought I would save some hassle by using the
measurements in the drawings. Not that they were wrong, but there's so much
opportunity to measure the wrong thing (as suggested in your postings), that
I did, in fact, have one rib off by about 1/8". I didn't redo it because it
still met the minimum distance criteria, but now some of the bottom rib
flange hangs out over the skin.
BTW, don't be afraid to use a couple of small shims to make the ribs square
up with the spars. I used them between one of the outboard ribs and the
forward spar. I think the instructions mention this.
Peter Christensen
RV-6A Wings
Pittsburgh, PA
>
> Oh Boy, here I am responding to my own list posting. I knew this project
> would have me talking to myself, just didn't realize it would be so soon.
>
> Another question on dimensions.
>
> DWG 8PP show the distances for the HS ribs and spars. The "note" at the
> top
> of the drawing says dimensions are to the outer web surfaces. Am I seeing
> things or is the 26" measurement between the outer web surface of HS-608
> and the outer flange surface of the HS-606. Keeping in mind Fig. 6-2PP of
> the manual defines webs and flanges. Just don't want to make a mistake
> here.
>
> Thanks,
> Matt Garrett
> Fresno, Ca
> RV6 tail
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shirley Harding" <shirleyh(at)starwon.com.au> |
My tail kit has some steel parts powder coated. I just noticed that each
elevator horn has one hole drilled in it. This hole has not been deburred
before the part was podercoated. Since the horm has to sit flush against
the spar I will have to remove the large burr, damaging the coating. Has
any one else noticed this problem?
Shirley Harding
RV6 tail
Perth
Western Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 cooling ramp (was HELP) |
Scott:
Appreciate the info on the 8a.
My CHT'S run 350-375 F., but bear in mind that is just going up to pattern
altitude, have not yet had a chance to climb longer, higher to find out what
that will do. Hope to have more data soon.
hilljw(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Beaton <kevin.beaton(at)usaa.com> |
| Subject: | Subject: Manual Trim Tab Cable |
I'm assembling the final parts of an RV-6 and am ready to install the
push-pull cable for the manual trim tab. I've been told that there is a way
to route the cable so that you do not have to drill a hole in the main spar
of the horizontal stabilizer. Anyone know how to do this????
Would appreciate your comments.
Thanks.
Bob Cabe
San Antonio; getting close
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Powder coating |
I've had to ream out and/or debur some of the powder-coated parts in the RV-8
wing kit - exposing bare steel in the process. So, I primed the entire part as
if if wasn't powder-coated.
Larry
Advance, NC
Skinning RV-8 wings
http://BowenAero.com
--- Shirley Harding wrote:
>
> My tail kit has some steel parts powder coated. I just noticed that each
> elevator horn has one hole drilled in it. This hole has not been deburred
> before the part was podercoated. Since the horm has to sit flush against
> the spar I will have to remove the large burr, damaging the coating. Has
> any one else noticed this problem?
>
> Shirley Harding
> RV6 tail
> Perth
> Western Australia
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Powder coating |
I did the same thing. For who knows what reason I wanted all of my primed
parts to "match"--so I roughened up the powder coat surface (Scotchbrite)
and then stuck my standard primer (AKZO epoxy) over each part. Looks good.
Rick Jory
Highlands Ranch, CO
RV-8A QB
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Powder coating
>
>I've had to ream out and/or debur some of the powder-coated parts in the
RV-8
>wing kit - exposing bare steel in the process. So, I primed the entire
part as
>if if wasn't powder-coated.
>
>Larry
>Advance, NC
>Skinning RV-8 wings
>http://BowenAero.com
>
>--- Shirley Harding wrote:
>>
>> My tail kit has some steel parts powder coated. I just noticed that each
>> elevator horn has one hole drilled in it. This hole has not been
deburred
>> before the part was podercoated. Since the horm has to sit flush against
>> the spar I will have to remove the large burr, damaging the coating. Has
>> any one else noticed this problem?
>>
>> Shirley Harding
>> RV6 tail
>> Perth
>> Western Australia
>
>Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: W-422 Tie Down Bracket |
I didn't have a problem with spacing between the holes. I did
get a little close to the stiffener thou. I think on this part
you can move 1/8" on any of the holes and be OK.
Larry
>
>I have a question about the W-422 tie-down bracket.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Jig |
Jim,
I built mine first part of July this year. Cost was under $90.
Kiln dry lumber is mandatory! (NOT avail at Home Depot here)
You should not have a problem getting KD lumber in WA. Hand
select the lumber for straight. No wain, twist, bow or crook. Took
one full day to build with the help of a carpenter (& RV) friend.
Be sure you build straight, level & plumb. Then check it periodically.
Mine has gone through Monsoon season, the only time of the year that
we have a humidity change. There was some movement.
In about two weeks you could have mine. But I'm about 25 hours one way!!
Larry Olson
Cave Creek, AZ
RV6 - Skinin the fuse
>Whom of you has built an RV6/6A fuselage jig recently.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: wheel installation |
>
> >
>
> Mike,
>I found a couple of messages in the Archieves that indicates your problem
>with the RV-4 Axle is not uncommon.
>
>Ed
>
Thanks to all who responded. I guess the answer was obvious but it makes
sense to check. 15 minutes per side with 240 grit and then a polish with
crocus cloth was all that was necessary.
Mike Wills
RV-4 on the gear (finally)
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
>>
>> Listers,
>>
>> This is a really nice RV-6 that is for sale at our airport. (MCW Mason
>> City Iowa) I don't believe there is a single used part in this
>> airplane. It was ALL Brand New!!!! His RV-8 should fly shortly, so the
>> -6 needs to go. I have a picture of it and would email it to anyone
>> interested.
>>
>> Tailwinds,
>> Doug Rozendaal
>> dougr(at)petroblend.com
>> www.petroblend.com/dougr
>>
>> Year: Completed June 9,1996
>>
>>
>> Total Time Airframe, Engine & Prop:110
>>
>> N-95AW
>>
>> All the following components were installed new at time of manufacture;
>>
>> Airspeed indicator
>>
>> Vertical speed indicator
>>
>> Turn Coordinator
>>
>> Artificial Horizon
>>
>> Directional Gyro
>>
>> Altimeter
>>
>> King 109 VOR with Glideslope
>>
>> King KX 155 Nav/Com
>>
>> King KX 97 Com
>>
>> King 134 Audio Pannel
>>
>> King 89 GPS panel mount
>>
>> Panel Mount Voice activated intercom with push-to-talk on control stick.
>>
>> Microvision Engine Monitor
>>
>> Digital Low voltage monitor system
>>
>> Outside Air Temp
>>
>> Hartzell Constant speed prop
>>
>> Lycoming 0-360 180 hp.
>>
>> ELT
>>
>> Maker Beacon
>>
>> Avionics master
>>
>> Cleveland Brakes
>>
>> Dual Landing wingtip lights
>>
>> Whelen Dual Pulse wingtip strobe lights
>>
>> Nav Lights
>>
>> 4 point shoulder restraint system
>>
>> Comments: This aircraft was professionally constructed by:
>>
>> Amos Wood, Clear Lake Iowa,
>>
>> Paint by PPG two part Epoxy Enamel
>>
>> Interior professionally installed by DJ Lauritsen, Boone, Iowa
>>
>> Price: $87,500 FIRM
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Back riveting technique |
Hello,
My name is Mark Schrimmer. I live in Irvine, CA and I've decided to build
an RV-9. While waiting for my kit to arrive, I've been practicing riveting.
When back riveting, I've been having trouble with the rivet set slipping on
the surface of the rivet. This results in a shop head that isn't perfectly
centered on the dimple. What's the best way to keep the rivet set from
moving? I'm using the Avery back rivet set with the plastic sleeve and an
Avery 2X gun at 30 to 35 lbs. of pressure.
Thanks for the help.
Mark Schrimmer
New builder waiting for RV-9
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tedd McHenry" <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | RV Accident Rate vs. GA Average (long) |
Jim:
Thanks for the feedback. Where there many replies to this post? I just got
back from vacation, and was rather suprised to only find two: yours and
Scott McDaniels's.
Tedd
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> JNice51355(at)aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 1999 3:47 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Accident Rate vs. GA Average (long)
>
>
> In a message dated 8/20/99 6:27:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> tedd(at)idacom.hp.com writes:
>
> << I'm not able to report separate rates for each model of
> RV, because I don't
> have information on how many of each there is flying. If
> someone wants to
> try to find that out, I'd love to see the numbers.
> Meanwhile, the debate
> rages on... >>
> Tedd
> Thanks for the numbers. It is my opinion that this survey is
> probably not
> much if any less accurate than the numbers for the GA fleet.
> I would imagine
> that it would be just as difficult obtaining those numbers
> also. do not
> archive
>
>
> -------------
>
> -------------
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
Louis,
I too am using Jeff's ignition system and concur with Anthony's
recommendation. I put all of the auto plugs into the lower cylinder
locations. Be sure to Loc-Tite the auto plug screw on ends as when they
loosen up in flight (from vibration), it tends to increase the amount of
noise in the radios.
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
Anthony,
I was just rereading some of my saved mail from the RV-list and saw
this
post. I have been seriously thinking of going with Jeff's ignition
in my
RV-4, 0-360 A1A. Do you still feel the same way? Which plugs did
you route
the Electronic Ignition to - upper, lower, or mixed? How do the
automotive
plugs work at this point in your experience? Any reply will be
appreciated.
Thanks,
Louis
Louis I. Willig, RV-4 - N8ZZ
larywil(at)home.com
(610) 668-4964
Philadelphia, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Back riveting technique |
Mark
You didn't say what size rivets you are using in your practicing but 30-35
lbs may be a bit too much for -3 rivets. I use 25lbs. for -3 rivets. However,
if you are bending the rivet when you drive it, the rivet may be too long.
There are gauges available from people like Cleveland and Avery Tool for
checking for proper length and for proper set of the rivet. Recommend these
gauges as you are developing your technique and knowledge of what the set
rivet should look like when set.
Dale Ensing
6A Chicago
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Back riveting technique |
Mark:
Be sure and hold the black sleeve firmly on the rivet with one hand and
apply pressure to the skin. Spring pressure is not enough to keep it from
moving. The back rivet plate should be at least 1/2 inch thick. Hope this
helps.
Irv Elhai RV-8 110 also in So. California
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hamilton, Thom" <Thom.Hamilton(at)usa.xerox.com> |
| Subject: | Back riveting technique |
>When back riveting, I've been having trouble with the rivet set slipping on
>the surface of the rivet. This results in a shop head that isn't perfectly
>centered on the dimple. What's the best way to keep the rivet set from
>moving? I'm using the Avery back rivet set with the plastic sleeve and an
>Avery 2X gun at 30 to 35 lbs. of pressure.
>
>Thanks for the help.
>
>Mark Schrimmer
Mark, welcome to building aluminum airplanes! I think everyone I have
talked to has had that problem when they first started back riveting. My
solution was: 1. Practice, 2. Holding the sleeve to the work with the
non-gun hand, and 3. More Practice. Simply working with it for a while it
got much easier and the results more appealing. Holding the sleeve in place
on the work piece with the free hand is a big key for me. Just watch the
little roll pin moving up and down. It pinches like @#$%@$#. Ask me how I
know.
Another trick a fellow -8 builder told me of recently was to slightly
squeeze the rivets in your squeezer before inserting them in the hole. This
is usually used to make a rivet fit a hole that is slightly oversized due to
being drilled out over and over. It works for that quite well. Ask me how
I know. Apparently it also can be used to swell the rivet so that it is
slightly shorter and fits the hole more tightly, hence it is less likely to
bend or slide or smear when back riveting in a fresh hole. Something to
try.
P.S. --- Use those botched rivets as practice for drilling out bad rivets.
I wish I had practiced that more before working on real pieces.
Thom Hamilton
MCSE, CNE, PP-ASEL, etc.
RV-8: Empennage 50%, Waiting on Wings
Baton Rouge, LA 225-753-9339
New builder waiting for RV-9
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "noeldrew" <noeldrew(at)iafrica.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid hookup question |
Ed,
I have just installed a Navaid and have been looking around for an
interface. Try www.porcine.com
and see what they have available. Their device converts the digital output
from a GPS to the analog signal required by the Navaid. There seems to be a
small problem with the Magellan SkyStar series but while a solution
obviously exists, I cannot help.
Noel Drew
ZU-APF
Durban, South Africa
noeldrew(at)iafrica.com
>
>I bit the financial bullet and bought a Navaid. The installation is going
>well, but I can't seem to find any info on the pinout for my Magellan
>Skyblazer XL. Does anyone know which are the necessary data lines to
>interface with the Navaid?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <N8RV(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Back riveting technique |
> Mark--
Along with the other tips guys have passed on, here's a tidbit that should help
minimize your frustration as you progress to riveting skins on--order an Avery
swivel-head set for riveting skins where you can't back rivet. It has less
tendency to "walk" on you, dinging the skin. Also, the rubber edge on it is a
good place to grab with a couple of fingers, stabilizing the head, kinda like
what you've been advised to do with the back rivet set.
good luck!
--Don McNamara
N8RV
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> My name is Mark Schrimmer. I live in Irvine, CA and I've decided to build
> an RV-9. While waiting for my kit to arrive, I've been practicing riveting.
>
> When back riveting, I've been having trouble with the rivet set slipping on
> the surface of the rivet. This results in a shop head that isn't perfectly
> centered on the dimple. What's the best way to keep the rivet set from
> moving? I'm using the Avery back rivet set with the plastic sleeve and an
> Avery 2X gun at 30 to 35 lbs. of pressure.
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Mark Schrimmer
> New builder waiting for RV-9
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Jig |
I don't think you can beat the price. I spent about $105.00 on my jig and
my son and I took about 6 hours building time. I was offered a free jig by a
RV builder in New Mexico (About 250 miles from where I live) but the jigs are
about 14 feet long and I had no way to haul it. If you have the means to
haul it I recommend you take a little trip.
Good Luck
Rollie and Rod
RV6A Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WesternAir(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Rudder Stiffener Spacing... |
Ok gang....
The stiffeners have been fabricated and boy do they look great...they should
since it is the second time I have made these babys....now that they are the
right length I have a question on rivit spacing....the plans show that the
rivits should start 3/4" from trailing edge of rudder (equates to about 1/2
in from trailing/tapered edge of stiffener) and the books says 1 1/2 in
spacing or whatever works as long as the first and last rivit are in place
(ie..using a rivit fan or god forbid math...). My question is I cannot find
on the plans or in the book or on the video exactly where the first rivit
(inboard/thick end of stiffener) should be from spar or stiffener end. I
guess it really doesn't matter that much as long as it meets edge distance,
but the books implies the distance is on the plans and I can't seem to find
it there. Should I just go with 1/4 in or so for the first one and fan the
rest out between the first and last. Whew....what a long winded way to ask
a simple question!!! Thanks...
Kurt, OKC, OK
(self proclaimed professional stiffener builder)
RV6A Tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Subject: Manual Trim Tab Cable |
<< I'm assembling the final parts of an RV-6 and am ready to install the
push-pull cable for the manual trim tab. I've been told that there is a way
to route the cable so that you do not have to drill a hole in the main spar
of the horizontal stabilizer. Anyone know how to do this???? >>
This is how the trim cable is installed on the time to climb machine flown by
Bruce Bohannon (And I've got a picture to prove it - but no scanner....
sorry).
Run the cable over the spars of the horizontal stabilizer. Run it through a
loose Adel clamp mounted to the HS to keep the cable from wandering off too
far. Run the cable out the the opening in the empennage fairing where the
shaft for the elevator horn goes through. Run the cable along the inboard
edge of the elevator, and secure it firmly to the elevator with another adel
clamp (you don't want any slop between this point and the trim tab arm). You
may want to put a doubler in place on the elevator to beef up the area where
the adel will mount. From there, simply run the business end of the cable to
the arm on your trim tab. The arm may need to be adjusted to make the
geometry work out right.
FWIW.. I considered using this routing, but dropped the idea.
Kyle Boatright
RV-6 pants/fairings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wheel installation |
Try mounting 440 grit insideout on a powered belt sander--off the drive drum &
around your axel. "Walk" the belt around the axel to polish evenly. Works faster
than you can read about it..........
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil on 09/07/99 11:33:11 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: wheel installation
>
> >
>
> Mike,
>I found a couple of messages in the Archieves that indicates your problem
>with the RV-4 Axle is not uncommon.
>
>Ed
>
Thanks to all who responded. I guess the answer was obvious but it makes
sense to check. 15 minutes per side with 240 grit and then a polish with
crocus cloth was all that was necessary.
Mike Wills
RV-4 on the gear (finally)
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinner(at)vcn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Back riveting technique |
Mark,
I assume you are simulating the riveting of stiffener angles to
ailerons, elevators & rudder where you tape in the rivets & lay the
piece down on a flat piece of steel. By the way, be sure to use
riveters tape (available locally or from Avery) instead of plain, Scotch
tape. I think the "offsetting" of the rivet shop head is more due to
not being straight on the rivet rather than the rivet set moving around
on the end of the rivet. You might try using the solid faced, .401
shank rivet driving bar that comes with the Avery rivet & dimpling tool.
Use you thumb and index finger to hold the set in place while driving.
With this method, you will be able to get a better idea as to whether
you are straight on the rivet. In later years, I used this method
instead of using the short, plastic sleeved set. However, when using
the short, sleeved set, the more rivets you drive, the sooner you "hit
the bullseye" as far as being straight on the rivet.
Bob Skinner 1995 RV6 (sold at 470 hrs) Buffalo, WY
> My name is Mark Schrimmer. I live in Irvine, CA and I've decided to build
> an RV-9. While waiting for my kit to arrive, I've been practicing riveting.
>
> When back riveting, I've been having trouble with the rivet set slipping on
> the surface of the rivet. This results in a shop head that isn't perfectly
> centered on the dimple. What's the best way to keep the rivet set from
> moving? I'm using the Avery back rivet set with the plastic sleeve and an
> Avery 2X gun at 30 to 35 lbs. of pressure.
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Mark Schrimmer
> New builder waiting for RV-9
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6BLDR <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Stiffener Spacing... |
WesternAir(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Ok gang....
>
> The stiffeners have been fabricated and boy do they look great...they should
> since it is the second time I have made these babys....now that they are the
> right length I have a question on rivit spacing....the plans show that the
> rivits should start 3/4" from trailing edge of rudder (equates to about 1/2
> in from trailing/tapered edge of stiffener) and the books says 1 1/2 in
> spacing or whatever works as long as the first and last rivit are in place
> (ie..using a rivit fan or god forbid math...). My question is I cannot find
> on the plans or in the book or on the video exactly where the first rivit
> (inboard/thick end of stiffener) should be from spar or stiffener end. I
> guess it really doesn't matter that much as long as it meets edge distance,
> but the books implies the distance is on the plans and I can't seem to find
> it there. Should I just go with 1/4 in or so for the first one and fan the
> rest out between the first and last. Whew....what a long winded way to ask
> a simple question!!! Thanks...
>
> Kurt, OKC, OK
> (self proclaimed professional stiffener builder)
> RV6A Tail
Kurt,
The end of the stiffner needs to be 3/16" from the bend line and the
first hole needs to be 3/4" fron the bend line. 3/4" minus 3/16" equals
9/16". I drilled the first and last hole in the stiffners 9/16" from
each end. Start drilling at 1 1/2" spacing. The next to the last hole
drilled is just centered between the last hole and the hole on the other
side of it since the 1 1/2" spacing won't work out evenly.
You are welcome to borrow my stiffner drilling jig and trailing edge
bending aparatus since it will be needed soon too!
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Garrett" <garrett(at)thesocket.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-List:Attaching ribs to rear HS spar |
Hi Peter,
I think I'm going to put the rear spar assembly into the jig B-4 I drill
the front spar on. I hope to loose some of the shim distance I think I have
now.
Thanks,
Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: Christensen, Peter [SMTP:pchristensen(at)sel.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 4:51 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List:Attaching ribs to rear HS spar
Matt, in response to your two e-mails on attaching ribs to the HS spar, the
key is to use the skin as a template on where exactly to place the ribs. I
know it's a pain to do this, but I learned the hard way when doing my
vertical stabilizer. I thought I would save some hassle by using the
measurements in the drawings. Not that they were wrong, but there's so
much
opportunity to measure the wrong thing (as suggested in your postings),
that
I did, in fact, have one rib off by about 1/8". I didn't redo it because
it
still met the minimum distance criteria, but now some of the bottom rib
flange hangs out over the skin.
BTW, don't be afraid to use a couple of small shims to make the ribs square
up with the spars. I used them between one of the outboard ribs and the
forward spar. I think the instructions mention this.
Peter Christensen
RV-6A Wings
Pittsburgh, PA
>
> Oh Boy, here I am responding to my own list posting. I knew this project
> would have me talking to myself, just didn't realize it would be so soon.
>
> Another question on dimensions.
>
> DWG 8PP show the distances for the HS ribs and spars. The "note" at the
> top
> of the drawing says dimensions are to the outer web surfaces. Am I seeing
> things or is the 26" measurement between the outer web surface of HS-608
> and the outer flange surface of the HS-606. Keeping in mind Fig. 6-2PP of
> the manual defines webs and flanges. Just don't want to make a mistake
> here.
>
> Thanks,
> Matt Garrett
> Fresno, Ca
> RV6 tail
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV Accident Rate vs. GA Average (long) |
In a message dated 9/7/99 9:59:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com writes:
<< Where there many replies to this post? >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pat <armstrong(at)coastside.net> |
I have a little different view of the problem. You need to start riveting
perpindicular to the rivet, NOT PARALLEL to the parts. If the rivet is in
at an angle, it will always bend if you are just parallel to the part.
After the first few hits, you can start moving the bucking bar parallel to
the flanges. No matter which tool or method I use to drive a rivet, I
check it when it is about half way driven. If the rivet is bad, I haven't
swollen the hole as much as if I went all the way at first. It is taking
me longer, but I know every rivet is as close to perfect as it can be.
Pat.
----------
From: Jeff Orear[SMTP:jorear(at)mari.net]
Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: bent rivets!
Hi Troy:
Sounds to me that you need to check to make sure that you are using the
correct length rivet. Remember that you need to have a rivet that sticks
out the hole 1 1/2 the diameter of the rivet. The common result of a too
long rivet is the rivet bending over as you have observed. Other than
that,
make sure that you are holding the bucking bar parallel to the parts you
are
riveting so that the shop head is not formed on a slant.
Hang in there....it gets easier the more you do it.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
Rv6a 25171
Hanging aileron and flap
Peshtigo, WI
-----Original Message-----
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com <rv-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 9:52 PM
Subject: RV-List: bent rivets!
>
>
>Listers, I'm trying to finish my HS skeleton by riveting the center tip
ribs
>in place, but am having little luck at this point. Every time I try to
set
>the rivet, it bends over. I've tried air pressure from 20# to 40#. I've
>tried different bucking bars. I've done it with a helper and without a
>helper. It always bends over. I think I've drilled out the same rivet 10
>times now. The hole is starting to look like a football:-( Now, I need a
>bigger rivet and still haven't figured it out. The hole is pretty close
to
>the web. Does this normally make it challenging to buck it properly?
I've
>given up for the night and am willing to listen to any advice at this
point.
>I'm using a 3x gun. Thanks.
>
>Troy Black
>-8 emp.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robby Jones" <flyboy2(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Fuselage Jig |
Help. I am not a carpenter no matter how much I try. Does anyone in the
Northern California area have a used RV-6 fuselage jig they want to part
with? Have truck, Will travel. Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mark delano <mdelano(at)mho.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Back riveting technique |
Mark:
Check the face of your back rivet set. I found my Avery set to have a
crowned surface, probably from polishing. This crowned surface seemed to slide
around on the rivet giving inconsistent results. I ground the set flat and
repolished, resulting in very consistent rivet and the sliding was no longer
experienced.
Mark Delano
Littleton, CO
6A Wings.
Mark Schrimmer wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> My name is Mark Schrimmer. I live in Irvine, CA and I've decided to build
> an RV-9. While waiting for my kit to arrive, I've been practicing riveting.
>
> When back riveting, I've been having trouble with the rivet set slipping on
> the surface of the rivet. This results in a shop head that isn't perfectly
> centered on the dimple. What's the best way to keep the rivet set from
> moving? I'm using the Avery back rivet set with the plastic sleeve and an
> Avery 2X gun at 30 to 35 lbs. of pressure.
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Mark Schrimmer
> New builder waiting for RV-9
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Nose Gear Fairing Mounting Method |
A few weeks ago, I asked the list if I understood the plans correctly,
specifically, if one had to remove the nose wheel axle to remove the
fairing. Apparently, this is the case per the plans. I am happy to report
that an alternative design works well. All I did differently (probably
others have already done this) was to mount the brackets which are fastened
to the axle bolt to the fiberglass fairing with platenuts and screws
instead of with rivets, as the plans specify. These brackets stay with the
nosewheel assembly when removing the fairing. I used two #8 screws per
side, and I patched the hole which I drilled for the axle for alignment
purposes. I reinforced the fiberglass in this area with some .032 aluminum
glassed to the inside. Additionally, I will use a low profile fiberlock
nut, as the standard one will interfere with the patched cowling.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cmcgough <rv6(at)ssc.net.au> |
I need advise on 0320 B2A it uses a conical mount can anyone see a
problem in putting this in a RV6.
Thanks Chris Aust
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Powder coating |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
>
>My tail kit has some steel parts powder coated. I just noticed that
>each
>elevator horn has one hole drilled in it. This hole has not been
>deburred
>before the part was podercoated. Since the horm has to sit flush
>against
>the spar I will have to remove the large burr, damaging the coating.
>Has
>any one else noticed this problem?
>
>Shirley Harding
>RV6 tail
>Perth
>Western Australia
>
Shirley,
Even if the holes in all of the parts were finished to final size you
would still have to drill through them to remove the build up of the
powder coating to be able to get the fasteners through the holes.
This is one of the drawbacks of doing this to the parts, but it should
still save most builders some time.
This problem exists even if you use a regular epoxy primer to prime the
parts... if the holes in the steel parts are drilled to net size and then
you prime the parts, you will have to remove the primer from inside the
hole to install the fastener.
Vans has small bottles of color matched touch up paint for the powder
coat parts.
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Need Dimensions For Skymap IIIC... |
Hi Listers,
I'm currently laying out my RV-4 panel on a CAD program so that Steve Davis of
The Panel Pilot can work his CNC magic on my instrument panel. I plan to put a
Skymap IIIC in, but I don't yet have the unit. I also plan to use the "Rack
Mount Kit" as well.
So here's where I need some help. Does anyone have some exacting specs for
mounting the IIIC using the rack mount kit? The Skyforce website calls out
6.2" X 4.5" in dimensions, but just blindly using those numbers just really
doesn't do it for me...
Here are some questions for those of you that may have this information:
1) What is the exact mounting hole dimensions?
2) Are the corners of this hole round? If so, what is the radius?
3) Is there a bezel of any kind that is larger than the mounting hole?
4) What are the dimensions of the bezel?
5) Can someone scan some clear pictures of their rack mount IIIC
installation that they could perhaps email to me??
6) Should I get the IIIC in hand before I go any farther with this?
7) I know that the IIIC is deeper than the Grayscale model, but is
the mounting hole and X/Y dimensions the same? There is a guy
around the corner from me with a Grayscale unit in his RV6a that
I could take a few measurements from if it is...?
8) Will this RV-4 project ever be done?
9) Will I ever stop spending money on it?
10) What really IS the price of the "RV Grin"?
:-)
Thanks to everyone for any assistance they can lend!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
RV-4 Builder - N442RV
List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim jewell <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
this is a test.
jim jewell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <besing(at)ibm.net> |
Although I don't think the B2A designation is an issue, the conical mount is
not a problem, just be sure you tell Van's when you order your finish kit.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
Finish Kit
http://members.home.net/rv8er
-----Original Message-----
From: cmcgough <rv6(at)ssc.net.au>
Date: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 10:52 PM
Subject: RV-List: Engine help
>
> I need advise on 0320 B2A it uses a conical mount can anyone see a
>problem in putting this in a RV6.
>
>Thanks Chris Aust
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Stiffener Spacing... |
Kurt,
I don't know what kind of plane your building but here's the
scoop on the 6. In the instructions for building you are instructed to
draw a line next to the main spar while it is clecoed in place and the
stiffeners are to be 1/4"
from the spar line and perp to it. I'd also like to comment on the
trailing ends.
Your probably going to put RTV under the trailing edge of the stiffeners
and the closer the rivet hole is to that end , the more strain will be
put on the rivet.
HTH
Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
>Ok gang....
...the plans show that the
rivits should start 3/4" from trailing edge of rudder (equates to about
1/2
in from trailing/tapered edge of stiffener) and the books says 1 1/2 in
>spacing or whatever works as long as the first and last rivit are in
>place
My question is I cannot find on the plans or in the book or on the
video exactly where the first rivit
(inboard/thick end of stiffener) should be from spar or stiffener end.
> Kurt, OKC, OK
> (self proclaimed professional stiffener builder)
> RV6A Tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need Dimensions For Skymap IIIC... |
There is a panel mount adapter for the lllC , also a gimbel mount. Been on
order for some time , thats all I can help you with. I ordered both mounts
just to see which one I like the best,
engine on, panel done, fuel tanks leak, #8 I just don't know?
Terry E. Cole
N-468TC (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
Installed a -b2c & a -b2b in a rv-4 & rv6a with no problems. traditional areas
of concern are the exhaust systems ( no problems with the Vetterman solutions),
carb mount & associated cables ( again no problems with Vans aircraft.) You can
save a bundle with the conical rubbers (mounts) Vans kit with rubbers & bolts
was very reasonable when compaired to the dyfocinal mounts. Be sure to order the
match drilled conical engine mount/gear legs as a single order either standalone
order or with your finish kit.....good luck.....
rv6(at)ssc.net.au on 09/07/99 11:38:50 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Engine help
I need advise on 0320 B2A it uses a conical mount can anyone see a
problem in putting this in a RV6.
Thanks Chris Aust
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Biddle, Dave S." <DSBIDDLE(at)Norstan.com> |
| Subject: | 4130 tabs on Sliding Canopy frame |
I am working on the RV6A sliding canopy.
There is a piece of 050 4130 .5" wide x 20" long that came with my finishing
kit delivered 2 months ago.
Is this for the .5" x 1.25" tabs, seven or eight per side, that George O.
recommends MIG welding onto the canopy frame to help support the side
skirts?
I have made 12 cuts on the canopy so far. It still isn't big enough! ;)
One more cut on rear and each side should almost do it. Before that, I am
ready to drill and cleco the plexi to the frame front bow. I practiced on a
piece of scrap with a quarter inch drill bit to see what it takes to crack.
The temperature was over 100, I pressed pretty hard, the 3.5" wide piece was
not well supported, and it snapped in two just before the hole was complete.
I then changed to a unibit and practiced with that before carefully drilling
the 3/4" hole for the latch handle. I also practiced with a 1/8" glass and
ceramic bit and it just seemed to melt (not cut) its way through. I don't
see any #40 plexi bits, so I'm planning on using a regular #40 for the first
pass and a 1/8" unibit for the rivet holes. Then opening the hole in the
plexi to 3/16 or 7/32 for expansion. I checked the archives and could not
find what it is that should be done to a standard bit to keep it from
pulling itself through and cracking the plexi. Can anyone tell me what needs
to be done?
Dave Biddle
RV6A-QB
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
Don,
Thanks for the tip, and I'll forward it on to the RV-list (email address
is rv-list(at)matronics.com). Next time I remove the cowl I'll try it out on
the automotive plugs.....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Donald Mei [SMTP:don_mei(at)hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 11:14 AM
> Subject: Spark plug tips
>
> Fred,
>
> I don't know how to post to the RV board but I get the digests. A while
> back
> when I was road racing motorcycles, a factory Honda tuner taught me a
> trick
> to keep the tips from vibrating off the ends of standard spark plugs.
> Better than loctite. Unscrew the end. Then with a pair of pliers, rough
> up
> the threads on the tip of the plug, being careful not to get the ones on
> the
> very tip of the male end that will be necessary to get the little aluminum
>
> nubbie started. I have used this for 10+ years on everything from a
> 16,000
> RPM 125cc road racing engine (42 reliable horsepower by the way. out of
> 6.5
> cubic inches!!!!!)to my honda lawn mower. I haven't had one come loose
> yet.
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Don Mei
> 23 Kings Lane
> Essex, CT 06426
>
> by the way: I see the utc.com address. Are you in Connecticut?
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BumFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 4130 tabs on Sliding Canopy frame |
In a message dated 9/8/99 10:04:51, DSBIDDLE(at)Norstan.com writes:
I am working on the RV6A sliding canopy.
There is a piece of 050 4130 .5" wide x 20" long that came with my finishing
kit delivered 2 months ago.
Is this for the .5" x 1.25" tabs, seven or eight per side, that George O.
recommends MIG welding onto the canopy frame to help support the side
skirts?
That's what I used; however the proper use for that piece of steel is to make
the links for the rudder cables where they attach to the pedals. you will
have to order another one or two.
I have made 12 cuts on the canopy so far. It still isn't big enough! ;)
One more cut on rear and each side should almost do it. Before that, I am
ready to drill and cleco the plexi to the frame front bow. I practiced on a
piece of scrap with a quarter inch drill bit to see what it takes to crack.
The temperature was over 100, I pressed pretty hard, the 3.5" wide piece was
not well supported, and it snapped in two just before the hole was complete.
I then changed to a unibit and practiced with that before carefully drilling
the 3/4" hole for the latch handle. I also practiced with a 1/8" glass and
ceramic bit and it just seemed to melt (not cut) its way through. I don't
see any #40 plexi bits, so I'm planning on using a regular #40 for the first
pass and a 1/8" unibit for the rivet holes. Then opening the hole in the
plexi to 3/16 or 7/32 for expansion. I checked the archives and could not
find what it is that should be done to a standard bit to keep it from
pulling itself through and cracking the plexi. Can anyone tell me what needs
to be done?
Dave Biddle
RV6A-QB
Phoenix, AZ >>
I just took the victim drill bit and scraped its tip back and forth on a
concrete floor to dull it up so that it would melt its way through. This is
a questionable practice but it worked for me.
good luck
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 4130 tabs on Sliding Canopy frame |
Dave,
The 1/2 x 20" piece of sheet steel is for the links that connect the rudder
cables to the pedals.
The steel for the side tabs is not supplied in the kit since this is not
part of the plans. I didn't weld these side tabs on but now I wish I did.
The side skirts flare out at the bottom when the plexi is clecoed on.
Several fixes have been posted here but none worked for me. I am presently
making a set of side and aft skirts out of epoxy/fiberglass to see if these
fit better. It looks promising so far.
As far as drill bits, I bought a 5/32 plastic cutting bit from Avery's. All
holes are drilled in plastic with this or a unibit. The angle on regualr
bits needs to be ground to zero degrees for plastic cutting. I haven't
tried this though.
Rick Caldwell
RV-6 finishing slider installation
>From: "Biddle, Dave S." <DSBIDDLE(at)Norstan.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: 4130 tabs on Sliding Canopy frame
>Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:54:33 -0500
>
>
>I am working on the RV6A sliding canopy.
>There is a piece of 050 4130 .5" wide x 20" long that came with my
>finishing
>kit delivered 2 months ago.
>Is this for the .5" x 1.25" tabs, seven or eight per side, that George O.
>recommends MIG welding onto the canopy frame to help support the side
>skirts?
>
>I have made 12 cuts on the canopy so far. It still isn't big enough! ;)
>One more cut on rear and each side should almost do it. Before that, I am
>ready to drill and cleco the plexi to the frame front bow. I practiced on a
>piece of scrap with a quarter inch drill bit to see what it takes to crack.
>The temperature was over 100, I pressed pretty hard, the 3.5" wide piece
>was
>not well supported, and it snapped in two just before the hole was
>complete.
>I then changed to a unibit and practiced with that before carefully
>drilling
>the 3/4" hole for the latch handle. I also practiced with a 1/8" glass and
>ceramic bit and it just seemed to melt (not cut) its way through. I don't
>see any #40 plexi bits, so I'm planning on using a regular #40 for the
>first
>pass and a 1/8" unibit for the rivet holes. Then opening the hole in the
>plexi to 3/16 or 7/32 for expansion. I checked the archives and could not
>find what it is that should be done to a standard bit to keep it from
>pulling itself through and cracking the plexi. Can anyone tell me what
>needs
>to be done?
>
>Dave Biddle
>RV6A-QB
>Phoenix, AZ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan E. Files" <BFiles(at)corecom.net> |
You can send the case in and Divco can make it a Dynafocal mount if you
want.
Bryan Files
Ever Fly Maintenance
Palmer, Alaska
-4 tail
----- Original Message -----
From: cmcgough <rv6(at)ssc.net.au>
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 7:38 PM
Subject: RV-List: Engine help
>
> I need advise on 0320 B2A it uses a conical mount can anyone see a
> problem in putting this in a RV6.
>
> Thanks Chris Aust
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 4130 tabs on Sliding Canopy frame |
No. That 4130 strip is to make the 2 pair of straps that connect the rudder
cables to the pedals.
But I do recommend the tabs on the canopy. Made mine from sheet stock that
was sheared into strips about .5"x2" (20" won't be enough). The length of
the tabs will be determined by the lower row of rivets on the side skirt. I
had mine welded on after the side skirts were fitted. We used 7 tabs per
side lined up on every third rivet. He was able to clamp the tabs to the
skirts right over the rivet hole so alignment came out perfect. You do have
to be very trusting (foolish?) to let someone take a torch to the frame with
the plexi in place... but then mine wasn't the first he had done that way.
I'm very happy with the result.
Good luck,
Greg Young
RV-6 N6GY (reserved) finishing kit
"Always do right- this will gratify some and astonish the rest." - Mark
Twain (1835-1910)
>
> I am working on the RV6A sliding canopy.
> There is a piece of 050 4130 .5" wide x 20" long that came with
> my finishing
> kit delivered 2 months ago.
> Is this for the .5" x 1.25" tabs, seven or eight per side, that George O.
> recommends MIG welding onto the canopy frame to help support the side
> skirts?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 4130 tabs on Sliding Canopy frame |
>
>I am working on the RV6A sliding canopy.
Before cutting any more plexi be sure that the frame is fully operable and
fits perfectly. Be sure that the sides of the frame are slightly inside
the fuselage and not overhanging it.
Then, get the proper bit from Avery or plastic store. I experimented and
found that the plastic would crack only if under stress while being
drilled. Even frozen it drilled okay.
I understand you *MUST* avoid melting any plexi. See the archives on
'flaming', for example.
Move the plexi fore and aft till the curve of the frames center
bar matches the curve in the plexi. Ooops. Too late for this advice.
Hal Kempthorne - SJC
RV6a at SCK - Baffling
Debonair N6134V for sale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stafford, David" <david.stafford(at)cybex.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Epennage kit for sale |
RV-8 Empennage kit for sale. No work has been done.
Will take $1000.00
256-837-5374
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas Nguyen" <TNGUYEN(at)oss.oceaneering.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 4130 tabs on Sliding Canopy frame |
Hi Dave,
I just completed drilling my sliding canopy to the slider frame and to the roll
bar, so I know a little bit about this process. I've found that using the #40
drill bit with low pressure setting on the air compressor (20-30 psi) and apply
very little pressure on the drill bit when drilling, I was able to complete
the canopy without any cracks. From there, I used 1/8" plexiglass drill bit
to bring them up to 1/8" and then used unibit to bring them up to final size.
This maybe a beginner luck, but worked well for me.
T.Nguyen, RV-6A
Instrument Panel and Engine Installation
>>> "Biddle, Dave S." 09/08/99 10:54AM >>>
I am working on the RV6A sliding canopy.
There is a piece of 050 4130 .5" wide x 20" long that came with my finishing
kit delivered 2 months ago.
Is this for the .5" x 1.25" tabs, seven or eight per side, that George O.
recommends MIG welding onto the canopy frame to help support the side
skirts?
I have made 12 cuts on the canopy so far. It still isn't big enough! ;)
One more cut on rear and each side should almost do it. Before that, I am
ready to drill and cleco the plexi to the frame front bow. I practiced on a
piece of scrap with a quarter inch drill bit to see what it takes to crack.
The temperature was over 100, I pressed pretty hard, the 3.5" wide piece was
not well supported, and it snapped in two just before the hole was complete.
I then changed to a unibit and practiced with that before carefully drilling
the 3/4" hole for the latch handle. I also practiced with a 1/8" glass and
ceramic bit and it just seemed to melt (not cut) its way through. I don't
see any #40 plexi bits, so I'm planning on using a regular #40 for the first
pass and a 1/8" unibit for the rivet holes. Then opening the hole in the
plexi to 3/16 or 7/32 for expansion. I checked the archives and could not
find what it is that should be done to a standard bit to keep it from
pulling itself through and cracking the plexi. Can anyone tell me what needs
to be done?
Dave Biddle
RV6A-QB
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Back riveting technique |
Thanks to all of you for answering my question about back riveting. You've
given me plenty of useful suggestions for solving the problem.
Mark Schrimmer
Waiting for RV-9 Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Stiffener Spacing... |
Hi all,
I know it looks coolest to have symmetry in spacing and uniformity in
switches on the panel but neither are very "aviation", I should think.
Seems to me that if the spacing of rivets etc were a bit *UNEVEN* there
would be less problems with vibration. I notice on my Debonair (which I
still have for sale!) rivet spacing and type is not all smooth and
cool. Did the Beech engineers know something we should know?
It has been well demonstrated that uniformity in switches, such as seen on
early Bonanzas with their piano key layout or at Oshkosh in the RV parking
area, is not the best design for safety.
As I did the rudder(s) I wondered if more uneven spacing of stiffeners and
their rivets wouldn't help prevent flutter. What say you aero
engineers? Bridge engineers?
Hal Kempthorne - SJC
RV6a at SCK - Baffling
Debonair N6134V for sale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gale Reese" <greese(at)pld.com> |
I guess I didn't know what I was getting into Please cut me off
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 4130 tabs on Sliding Canopy frame |
--- "Biddle, Dave S." wrote:
>
>
> I am working on the RV6A sliding canopy.
> There is a piece of 050 4130 .5" wide x 20" long
> that came with my finishing
> kit delivered 2 months ago.
> Is this for the .5" x 1.25" tabs, seven or eight per
> side, that George O.
> recommends MIG welding onto the canopy frame to help
> support the side
> skirts?
>
> Dave Biddle
> RV6A-QB
> Phoenix, AZ
>
Dave:
Purchase plexi bits from Avery or Cleaveland.
http://www.cleavelandtool.com
http://www.averytools.com
Check Drawing 43a secton C-C for the rudder cable link
(straps) that are made out of .050 4130 Steel
(F-6119).
The TABS on the Canopy Frame are NOT needed. I have
been flying 420 hours over almost 2 years and do NOT
have the straps on my sliding canopy. I used a metal
shrink tool to get my skirts fitting perfect. If you
were at AirVenture 98 or 99, you could have checked it
out.
==
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
So. CA, USA
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
--- cmcgough wrote:
>
>
> I need advise on 0320 B2A it uses a conical mount
> can anyone see a
> problem in putting this in a RV6.
>
> Thanks Chris Aust
Chris:
Section 11 Engine Installation in the RV-6(A)
construction manual has a table at the back that is a
guide to Lycoming Engines. I have a O-320 B2B that I
converted to Constant Speed Prop operation. Van's
manual says that my B2B is "Same as -B2A except for
straight riser in oil sump and -32 carburetor". I
think it will work but I do not know what the straight
riser in oil sump means. I have an updraft carburetor
mounted on the bottom of the oil sump. If the -B2A
has an updraft carburetor mounted to the bottom of the
oil sump, it will work. If it is a rear or front
carburetor mount sump, the sump and intake tubes would
need to be swapped with one from an updraft engine.
Sorry that this was not more help. The Conical mounts
cost less and work GREAT! The only concern that I
have is does the carburetor mount on the bottom of the
Sump? If it is going on an RV-?A, I would also make
sure that the carburetor does not mount on the bottom
toward the back of the sump as it will interfer with
the nose gear. My B2B works on my -6 but will NOT
work on a -6A. Just because my B2B will not, does not
mean all B2Bs will not.
==
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
So. CA, USA
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
That is exactly what I said to my first wife. ;-)
GY
-----Original Message-----
From: Gale Reese <greese(at)pld.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 7:21 PM
Subject: RV-List: Cut me off
>
>I guess I didn't know what I was getting into Please cut me off
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe3(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Allen head C/S Screws? |
Are there any aviation grade Allen head countersunk screws out there? If so,
what is the designation?
Moe Colontonio
moejoe3(at)home.com
www.tabshred.com/moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe3(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | New RV-8 mailing list |
Listers, I have started a seperate RV-8 builder mailing list. It is very
similar to Matt's list, with archives, digest version, etc, but not as
advanced. The list will be for RV-8 & 8A builders only, to cut down on extra
traffic. It is free, but an RV-8 builder number is required to join. Sorry
to be so exclusive, but the whole point is to provide an exchange to a very
specific group of builders.
Goto the following link to subscribe:
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/rv8list
Moe Colontonio
moejoe3(at)home.com
www.tabshred.com/moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Derek Reed" <dreed(at)cdsnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allen head C/S Screws? |
Genuine Socked Head cap screws are Grade 8., such as those made by'Unbrako',
In general, the csk screws are made to 82 deg angle head. Take care as there
are some cheap ones on the market that are rubbish. I have found that cad
plated ones fall in this latter category.
D. Reed 6A Grants Pass OR
----Original Message-----
From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe3(at)home.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 8:32 PM
Subject: RV-List: Allen head C/S Screws?
>
>Are there any aviation grade Allen head countersunk screws out there? If
so,
>what is the designation?
>
>Moe Colontonio
>moejoe3(at)home.com
>www.tabshred.com/moe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Gretz <gretz_aero(at)h2net.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Subject: Manual Trim Tab Cable |
Hello Kevin and the RV List,
I don't know how to get past the spar without drilling a hole through it, but if
you want to up grade your manual trim to a very easy alternative electric
elevator trim designed to retrofit your manual cable trim, I can help. I make a
kit to do just this task. If you are interested to learn more about this kit,
send me you US Postal address and I will send you a set of my flyers covering
this kit along with other products I make and sell.
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
Kevin Beaton wrote:
>
> I'm assembling the final parts of an RV-6 and am ready to install the
> push-pull cable for the manual trim tab. I've been told that there is a way
> to route the cable so that you do not have to drill a hole in the main spar
> of the horizontal stabilizer. Anyone know how to do this????
>
> Would appreciate your comments.
>
> Thanks.
> Bob Cabe
> San Antonio; getting close
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | 4130 tabs on Sliding Canopy frame |
>
>
> I am working on the RV6A sliding canopy.
> There is a piece of 050 4130 .5" wide x 20" long that came with my
> finishing
> kit delivered 2 months ago.
> Is this for the .5" x 1.25" tabs, seven or eight per side, that George
> O.
> recommends MIG welding onto the canopy frame to help support the side
> skirts?
>
> [Ken Harrill] Dave,
>
> I am just finishing the slider canopy and you may be interested in
> what I did instead of the tabs. I cut two pieces of .025 aluminum
> aproximately 2" X 23" and put a 35 degree break in opposite directions
> at the top and bottom of the strip. The breaks are 3/8" from the top
> and bottom edges. I then drilled and clecoed it to the inside of the
> horizontal tube of the frame. Then when I drilled the the bottom row
> of holes in the side skirt, I drilled from the inside through this
> strip and the two side skirt pieces. Holding a block on the outside
> insures the the side skirts will align with the fuselage sides. The
> result is an absolutely rigid side skirt that perfectly fits the
> fuselage. It looks good, too. I cut two or three vertical slots
> about 1 1/2" from the bottom of the strips to allow them to conform to
> the curve in the side skirts.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Ken Harrill
> RV-6, canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cmcgough <rv6(at)ssc.net.au> |
I contacted Vans and they said the 320B"s have a straight riser on the oil sump
that causes problems with the RV mounts and was not the best choice.Thanks for
all
the replies.
Chris RV6 Fuse Aust
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <Paul.Besing(at)timetrend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Allen head C/S Screws? |
Grade 8 is basically the strongest bolt/screw that you can buy from a
hardware store, which is as close to "aircraft grade" that you can get...in
fact some bolts may be overkill on strength. Check with a local avionics
shop (preferrably a larger one). I found that they had thousands of screws
of different varieties that they get from suppliers that we don't normally
deal with.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe3(at)home.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Allen head C/S Screws?
>
>Grade 8 meaning aircraft grade?
>
>Moe Colontonio
>moejoe3(at)home.com
>www.tabshred.com/moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Roseblade <davidagr(at)emirates.net.ae> |
| Subject: | dimpling .032" sheets |
I am in the process of setting up my workshop and getting some dimpling and
riveting practice. One thing I have noticed is that if you rivet two dimpled
0.032" sheets together, the upper dimples do not seat fully in the lower
dimples. Has anyone any comments on this, I seem to have read somewhere that
either this does not matter or maybe use a countersink on the lower dimple
to give it a bit more? This is not a problem with 0.016 skins, the dimples
fit perfectly into each other.
Regards
David Roseblade
RV-6 Preview Plans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Silverstein, Chuck" <chuck.silverstein(at)LMCO.COM> |
| Subject: | Subject: Manual Trim Tab Cable |
Warren: Interested in your info. send to 103 Westbury Ln. florence, al.35630
. chuck silverstein, fuse in jig
-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Gretz [mailto:gretz_aero(at)h2net.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Subject: Manual Trim Tab Cable
Hello Kevin and the RV List,
I don't know how to get past the spar without drilling a hole through it,
but if
you want to up grade your manual trim to a very easy alternative electric
elevator trim designed to retrofit your manual cable trim, I can help. I
make a
kit to do just this task. If you are interested to learn more about this
kit,
send me you US Postal address and I will send you a set of my flyers
covering
this kit along with other products I make and sell.
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
Kevin Beaton wrote:
>
> I'm assembling the final parts of an RV-6 and am ready to install the
> push-pull cable for the manual trim tab. I've been told that there is a
way
> to route the cable so that you do not have to drill a hole in the main
spar
> of the horizontal stabilizer. Anyone know how to do this????
>
> Would appreciate your comments.
>
> Thanks.
> Bob Cabe
> San Antonio; getting close
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Subject: Manual Trim Tab Cable |
I purchased Warren's trim system and I really like it. The large radius
bend manual trim cable took up way too much room in the center floor area.
Warren also supplied a Wd415 that is bent at a more favorable angle than
Van's and that makes for a smoother operating trim tab. You get the
benefits of electric trim without the hassle of mounting the servo in the
elevator. There are more details in the archives.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL C38
-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Gretz <gretz_aero(at)h2net.net>
Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Subject: Manual Trim Tab Cable
>
>Hello Kevin and the RV List,
>I don't know how to get past the spar without drilling a hole through it,
but if
>you want to up grade your manual trim to a very easy alternative electric
>elevator trim designed to retrofit your manual cable trim, I can help. I
make a
>kit to do just this task. If you are interested to learn more about this
kit,
>send me you US Postal address and I will send you a set of my flyers
covering
>this kit along with other products I make and sell.
>
>Warren Gretz
>Gretz Aero
>
>Kevin Beaton wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm assembling the final parts of an RV-6 and am ready to install the
>> push-pull cable for the manual trim tab. I've been told that there is a
way
>> to route the cable so that you do not have to drill a hole in the main
spar
>> of the horizontal stabilizer. Anyone know how to do this????
>>
>> Would appreciate your comments.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Bob Cabe
>> San Antonio; getting close
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dimpling .032" sheets |
David,
This is not a problem, but if you want to get a tighter fit, the
countersink will work, or you can use fuel tank dimple dies on the
bottom sheet. The tank dies create dimples a few thousand's deeper. You
can get more info on the dies here:
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/tankdies.html
Good luck with your new project!
Sam Buchanan (RV-6 test flying..........grin.....)
"The RV Journal" www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
-----------------------------
David Roseblade wrote:
>
>
> I am in the process of setting up my workshop and getting some dimpling and
> riveting practice. One thing I have noticed is that if you rivet two dimpled
> 0.032" sheets together, the upper dimples do not seat fully in the lower
> dimples. Has anyone any comments on this, I seem to have read somewhere that
> either this does not matter or maybe use a countersink on the lower dimple
> to give it a bit more? This is not a problem with 0.016 skins, the dimples
> fit perfectly into each other.
>
> Regards
>
> David Roseblade
>
> RV-6 Preview Plans
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BumFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: dimpling .032" sheets |
In a message dated 9/9/99 7:08:32, davidagr(at)emirates.net.ae writes:
I am in the process of setting up my workshop and getting some dimpling and
riveting practice. One thing I have noticed is that if you rivet two dimpled
0.032" sheets together, the upper dimples do not seat fully in the lower
dimples. Has anyone any comments on this, I seem to have read somewhere that
either this does not matter or maybe use a countersink on the lower dimple
to give it a bit more? This is not a problem with 0.016 skins, the dimples
fit perfectly into each other.
Regards
David Roseblade
>>
You are possibly not whacking the sheets sufficiently. Dimples can be made
five different ways that I know of. The best way, especially for thicker
sheets, is with the Avery C frame whacking tool. You need to bash the die
with a hammer with sufficient force to leave a ring of scar tissue on the
surface of the metal.
Just one man's opinion.
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BumFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Allen head C/S Screws? |
In a message dated 9/8/99 21:31:44, moejoe3(at)home.com writes:
<< Grade 8 meaning aircraft grade? >>
Grade 8 is not aircraft grade
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 weight and balance |
Hi all,
I'm still deciding on the battery location for my RV-8, and I'd like to get some
more info if it's
available. The example in the manual would be more helpful if I knew what the
configuration was.
If anyone has the following info for a completed RV-8, I'd love to see it.
Empty weight
Empty CG location
Engine and prop used
Battery location
Thanks,
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (seats and windscreen weldment- which is warped like crazy)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Luker, Michael G." <luker.michael(at)mayo.edu> |
| Subject: | Best Price/advise. |
Gentlemen/ladies.
I need a new engine driven low pressure fuel pump part number LW-15742,
and I need to have my Bendix Magnetos gone through. Anyone have advise on
where I could get both of these items at the most reasonable price? Thanks
mgl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RWINGSPAN(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: dimpling .032" sheets |
In a message dated 9/9/99 9:44:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
davidagr(at)emirates.net.ae writes:
<< I am in the process of setting up my workshop and getting some dimpling and
riveting practice. One thing I have noticed is that if you rivet two dimpled
0.032" sheets together, the upper dimples do not seat fully in the lower
dimples. Has anyone any comments on this, I seem to have read somewhere that
either this does not matter or maybe use a countersink on the lower dimple
to give it a bit more? This is not a problem with 0.016 skins, the dimples
fit perfectly into each other. >>
Hi David,
Try using a swivel deburr tool on the skin side of the dimple. technique used
on the Orndorff videos. Just a few turns. Works very well for me. Good luck
on your project.
Rich Greener
RV-8 Empennage 80%
(waiting, and waiting... on wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allen head C/S Screws? |
Grade 8 is stronger but more brittle.
>
>
>In a message dated 9/8/99 21:31:44, moejoe3(at)home.com writes:
>
><< Grade 8 meaning aircraft grade? >>
>
>Grade 8 is not aircraft grade
>
>
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
Visit our web site at... http://www.bellanca-championclub.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Chapter 62 RV Forum |
Hi Ed,
Good meeting the other night but they do ramble on in the biz part, just as
I had remembered!
I suppose I'll get fired soon as Treasurer. I just found that I have not
ordered Gary's badge or deposited one check and some cash Also, my wife
had her vacation moved to next week and I had probably better go with her.
Our bank balance is $1872.00. I will deposit $26.25 today. Don Long
hasn't paid for his new badge, just as he thought. I didn't consider the
fact that it was a replacement. So, he owes us $8.25 but I can collect
next month. I have two badges I could mail to members if I had their
addresses: Bob Marshall and Ed Ward.
After I get back from vacation, I have jury duty! I got excused once
already so I gotta go but after that, last week of month, I'll be ready at
last to use your flanger.
hal
408.230.0891 (cell)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chapter 62 RV Forum |
Thanks for the update Hal.
>
>Hi Ed,
>
>Good meeting the other night but they do ramble on in the biz part, just as
>I had remembered!
>
>I suppose I'll get fired soon as Treasurer. I just found that I have not
>ordered Gary's badge or deposited one check and some cash Also, my wife
>had her vacation moved to next week and I had probably better go with her.
>
>Our bank balance is $1872.00. I will deposit $26.25 today. Don Long
>hasn't paid for his new badge, just as he thought. I didn't consider the
>fact that it was a replacement. So, he owes us $8.25 but I can collect
>next month. I have two badges I could mail to members if I had their
>addresses: Bob Marshall and Ed Ward.
>
>After I get back from vacation, I have jury duty! I got excused once
>already so I gotta go but after that, last week of month, I'll be ready at
>last to use your flanger.
>
>hal
>408.230.0891 (cell)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randylervold(at)csi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New RV-8 mailing list |
Listers,
Don has taken the words right out of my mouth. We -8 builders simply yearn
for information on the specifics of our birds. I also appreciate Moe
stepping up and filling in where the Shortlist left off. I for one intend to
remain active on the RV List, which as far as I'm concerned contains a
superset of the information that will be on the rv8list.
I attended OSH this year for the first time and had the chance to meet Don
McNamara, Moe Colontonio, Jon Ross, and other RV-8 builders (thanks to Don
for taking the initiatiative in putting this together). This was invaluable
and we have all been exchanging tech tips, digital photos, and encouragement
since. The new list will simply be an easy way to facilitate an RV8-specific
information exchange. Check with the others, but I'd bet that none of them
have any intention of abandoning the RV List community. To you RV-4 and RV-6
drivers... we just wanna fly!!!
All the best,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, cutting the canopy thanks to all the tips from the other -8
builders
Home Wing
>
>I appreciate Chris' humor here, and there's always a possibility of
exclusivity
>rearing its ugly head when groups like this originate, but I'm sure that's
not the
>author's intent.
>
>For a long time, an RV-8 builder who had a great web site handled loads of
>RV-8-specific questions, to his own undoing. His selfless dedication to
helping
>other builders was boundless, even to the point of his project suffering
because of
>the repeated stupid questions posed to him. And he never complained.
>
>One of the features of his web site was a listing of interested RV-8
builders. If a
>builder had a question about a step peculiar to RV-8s, all one had to do
was send an
>e-mail message to the other builders on the ShortList, and multiple
responses were
>generated, all specific to the RV-8 model. Sure, there is a lot of
commonality to
>the RV series, but the -8 is different enough to warrant specific questions
from
>other builders. In time, however, the list grew from 20-30 builders to a
hundred or
>more.
>
>Since the previous builder is no longer running the RV-8 ShortList, Moe
Colontonio
>has graciously agreed to take up the banner and start another RV-8
ShortList to
>complement the RV List. When I have a question about the -8 I'm building,
I can
>address other interested -8 builders on Moe's list with one fell swoop, and
get my
>answers almost immediately, usually while I am still in the shop! Many of
the
>builders on the RV-8 ShortList aren't on the RV List, so posting questions
to the RV
>List usually brings few, if any responses.
>
>So, while you (Chris) were obviously being humorous, there are those on the
RV List
>who will take offense at the formation--actually, the continuation--of a
separate
>list for RV-8 builders. Please don't. There's no exclusivity among RV
builders.
>All are fine planes, which is why we're building them. So don't let it bug
you if
>-8 builders have a list besides the Matronics RV List--it isn't worth
losing sleep
>over.
>
>--Don McNamara
> N8RV (fuse)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Browne" <cebrowne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New RV-8 mailing list |
It was all in fun - no one get offended. Anyone is free to form whatever
list they want, passwords or no. The particular model of RV is immaterial.
Das Ende
Chris Browne
-----Original Message-----
From: Don McNamara <N8RV(at)gte.net>
Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: New RV-8 mailing list
>
>I appreciate Chris' humor here, and there's always a possibility of
exclusivity
>rearing its ugly head when groups like this originate, but I'm sure that's
not the
>author's intent.
>
>...
>So, while you (Chris) were obviously being humorous, there are those on the
RV List
>who will take offense at the formation--actually, the continuation--of a
separate
>list for RV-8 builders. Please don't. There's no exclusivity among RV
builders.
>All are fine planes, which is why we're building them. So don't let it bug
you if
>-8 builders have a list besides the Matronics RV List--it isn't worth
losing sleep
>over.
>
>--Don McNamara
> N8RV (fuse)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allen head C/S Screws? |
Motorcycle shops carry the better grade screws
Derek Reed wrote:
>
>
> Genuine Socked Head cap screws are Grade 8., such as those made by'Unbrako',
> In general, the csk screws are made to 82 deg angle head. Take care as there
> are some cheap ones on the market that are rubbish. I have found that cad
> plated ones fall in this latter category.
>
> D. Reed 6A Grants Pass OR
>
> ----Original Message-----
> From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe3(at)home.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 8:32 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Allen head C/S Screws?
>
> >
> >Are there any aviation grade Allen head countersunk screws out there? If
> so,
> >what is the designation?
> >
> >Moe Colontonio
> >moejoe3(at)home.com
> >www.tabshred.com/moe
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
Please don't yell at me, I'm sure "Mr. Obvious" would!
Are the T-410 tank rib doublers and the W-606A inspection plates
"roll-yer-own" parts or did my pet Komodo Dragon have an interesting
lunch? I asked the archives, got a list of posts, but couldn't open any
of them- (obviously that 9-9-99 bug)!
Thanks again...
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark (I guess you KNOW what I'm workin' on!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New RV-8 mailing list |
Does anyone know when the RV-8 shortest is going to be activated. I keep
getting unknown on the ONELIST site.
Bill BRUTON
8 Impinge
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Restrictor Orfice Sizes |
Listers
I need some information concerning the size of the restrictor orfices you
drill for the manifold pressure, fuel pressure, and oil pressure fittings
that come off the engine. I checked the archives and my saved messages
and found everything I need except the size of the restrictor orfice. I
would imagine somewhere in the #60 to #80 drill bit range.
Anybody out there know where I can find it, or please let me know what
size works best.
Thanks in advance.
Wes Hays
RV6-A
Engine stuff! (at last)
Rotan, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)mari.net> |
Hi Mark:
You did not mention how old your wing kit is. I got mine last summer, and
the 410's and 606A's were provided cut to size. Just had to separate them,
as they are cut from the same piece of aluminum.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A 25171
Hanging flap
Peshtigo, WI
-----Original Message-----
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com <rv-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 6:32 PM
Subject: RV-List: Wing Parts
>
>
>Please don't yell at me, I'm sure "Mr. Obvious" would!
>
>Are the T-410 tank rib doublers and the W-606A inspection plates
>"roll-yer-own" parts or did my pet Komodo Dragon have an interesting
>lunch? I asked the archives, got a list of posts, but couldn't open any
>of them- (obviously that 9-9-99 bug)!
>
>Thanks again...
>
>From the PossumWorks in TN
>Mark (I guess you KNOW what I'm workin' on!)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Camille Hawthorne" <camillehawthorne(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Epennage kit for sale |
Good evening David, Would you consider $750? We plan on doing one of these
kits, but funding is still short right now. We do have that much available.
Please let us know. Thank You. Camille + Frank Hawthorne, New Castle, DE
>From: "Stafford, David" <david.stafford(at)cybex.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'rv-list(at)matronics.com'"
>Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Epennage kit for sale
>Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:54:52 -0500
>
>
>RV-8 Empennage kit for sale. No work has been done.
>Will take $1000.00
>
>256-837-5374
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gummos" <tg1965(at)linkline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New RV-8 mailing list |
Can us rocket builder stay on the special RV-6 list?
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)prodigy.net> |
Were there separate instructions that came with the Type S Cowl? All I
have is one large D size drawing, but I thought I remember seeing some text
type instructions.
Thanks,
Alex Peterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BumFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Allen head C/S Screws? |
In a message dated 9/9/99 10:21:36, cgalley(at)accessus.net writes:
Grade 8 is stronger but more brittle. >>
An excellent, succinct answer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Browne" <cebrowne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New RV-8 mailing list |
Gee ... I dunno ... after all, your airplane is FASTER than mine. Not so
sure that's fair.
;
}
Chris
Actually, I was thinking. Shhhhh! keep this under you hat! Now that all
the RV-8ers are gone, maybe we ought to play a trick on them! How 'bout
someone hacking their way onto Moe's web site and asking RV-4 questions or
somethin' Huh?
-----Original Message-----
From: Gummos <tg1965(at)linkline.com>
Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: New RV-8 mailing list
>
>Can us rocket builder stay on the special RV-6 list?
>Tom
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com> |
Mine came as parts, not phantom parts
Bill Pagan
N565BW(Reserved)
"The original and only RV-8A builders page on the web"
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>Please don't yell at me, I'm sure "Mr. Obvious" would!
>
>Are the T-410 tank rib doublers and the W-606A inspection plates
>"roll-yer-own" parts or did my pet Komodo Dragon have an interesting
>lunch? I asked the archives, got a list of posts, but couldn't open any
>of them- (obviously that 9-9-99 bug)!
>
>Thanks again...
>
>From the PossumWorks in TN
>Mark (I guess you KNOW what I'm workin' on!)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Restrictor Orfice Sizes |
I asked this same question not too long ago and got the advice to use my
smallest drill bit. If your smallest is a #40 I'd consider getting
something smaller ;-)
Bill Pagan
N565BW(Reserved)
"The original and only RV-8A builders page on the web"
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>Listers
>I need some information concerning the size of the restrictor orfices you
>drill for the manifold pressure, fuel pressure, and oil pressure fittings
>that come off the engine. I checked the archives and my saved messages
>and found everything I need except the size of the restrictor orfice. I
>would imagine somewhere in the #60 to #80 drill bit range.
>
>Anybody out there know where I can find it, or please let me know what
>size works best.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Wes Hays
>RV6-A
>Engine stuff! (at last)
>Rotan, TX
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 weight and balance |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
>Hi all,
>
>I'm still deciding on the battery location for my RV-8, and I'd like
>to get some more info if it's
>available. The example in the manual would be more helpful if I knew
>what the configuration was.
>If anyone has the following info for a completed RV-8, I'd love to see
>it.
>
>Empty weight
>Empty CG location
>Engine and prop used
>Battery location
>
>
This may not be enough information to be of any use since RV's very by
empty weight and C.G. position pretty widely even if they have the same
engine and prop installed. Also getting carried away on the paint job
with a lot of paint on the tail can have a very measurable effect on the
C.G. position.
The RV-8 weight and balance example in the manual was for N58RV which had
an O-320 with a constant speed prop, forward mounted battery, ELT
mounted at the far aft of the baggage compartment, separate strobe power
supplies mounted near the wing spar on each tip rib, and a moderately
equipped panel (basic VFR instruments, turn coordinator, VM1000 engine
instrumentation, transponder, IImorrow SL40 slim line COM, and IImorrow
360 GPS moving map display).
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allen head C/S Screws? |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
>
>Grade 8 is basically the strongest bolt/screw that you can buy from a
>hardware store, which is as close to "aircraft grade" that you can
>get...
-
So that no one gets the wrong idea I need to point out an error here.
Grade 8 bolts and standard AN aircraft bolts are similar only by the fact
that they are both called bolts and are both used to join multiple parts
together.
AN aircraft bolts are not stronger than Grade 8 bolts. I think they are
even a little lower in strength than a Grade 5 bolt, but can't remember
for sure (anyone else know?).
These two bolts do their jobs in entirely different ways.
A standard AN bolt is rated at 125,000 PSI and is meant to yield if
overloaded "but not brake or fail entirely" (which means it will have
evidence and intractability to show that the overload took place.
A grade 8 bolt is much harder (stronger) but as a result if it is loaded
very much beyond it's design it fractures / snaps with no warning.
The main point is that many people have the idea that if the hardware is
"aircraft" that it is the strongest available. This is very often not
the case. More often it means that the hardware is manufactured to a
close tolerance and is made in an environment that the mfg can prove with
documentation that each and every lot they make is exactly to the spec
for that particular piece of hardware.
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Stafford" <dstafford98(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Epennage kit for sale |
Camille,
The kit has already been sold. There have been a suprising amount of
interest. Good luck on your project.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Camille Hawthorne <camillehawthorne(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Epennage kit for sale
>
>
> > ----------
> > From: Camille Hawthorne[SMTP:CAMILLEHAWTHORNE(at)HOTMAIL.COM]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 7:38:45 PM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Epennage kit for sale
> > Auto forwarded by a Rule
> >
>
> Good evening David, Would you consider $750? We plan on doing one of these
> kits, but funding is still short right now. We do have that much
available.
> Please let us know. Thank You. Camille + Frank Hawthorne, New Castle, DE
>
>
> >From: "Stafford, David" <david.stafford(at)cybex.com>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: "'rv-list(at)matronics.com'"
> >Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Epennage kit for sale
> >Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:54:52 -0500
> >
> >
> >
> >RV-8 Empennage kit for sale. No work has been done.
> >Will take $1000.00
> >
> >256-837-5374
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Klaus Heddergott <klaus(at)yosemite.net> |
| Subject: | "Airflow Performance" |
Listers!
I would like to hear from anyone who has an "Airflow Performance" fuel
injection system on their RV.
I have a RV-6 with an O-360 carburated Lycoming engine. I'm considering
changing to an "Airflow Performance" fuel injection system.
Hopefully I will hear from people who are happy with the system. But at
the same time I would also like to find out about any possible problems.
If any of you listers know of someone with that system on their RV that
doesn't have access to this list, I would appreciate their phone number,
so I could get in touch with them.
Thanks in advance, Klaus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dimpling .032" sheets |
Try the dimple dies which slightly "overbend" the material, I found them to
be much superior to the typical. Cruise the catalogs, can't remember who
carried them.
Alex Peterson
> I am in the process of setting up my workshop and getting some dimpling
and
> riveting practice. One thing I have noticed is that if you rivet two
dimpled
> 0.032" sheets together, the upper dimples do not seat fully in the lower
> dimples. Has anyone any comments on this, I seem to have read somewhere
that
> either this does not matter or maybe use a countersink on the lower
dimple
> to give it a bit more? This is not a problem with 0.016 skins, the
dimples
> fit perfectly into each other.
>
> Regards
>
> David Roseblade
>
> RV-6 Preview Plans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Von Dane's" <vondanes(at)email.msn.com> |
Hey Bill...
Your not the only one with an RV-8A builders page on the web now... LOL
You have much more stuff on yours though!
I just want to thank all of the web authors out there... Your a BIG help!
-Bill Von Dane
-8A empennage on the way!
http://members.tripod.com/rv8tor
----- Original Message -----
From: pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Parts
Mine came as parts, not phantom parts
Bill Pagan
N565BW(Reserved)
"The original and only RV-8A builders page on the web"
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>Please don't yell at me, I'm sure "Mr. Obvious" would!
>
>Are the T-410 tank rib doublers and the W-606A inspection plates
>"roll-yer-own" parts or did my pet Komodo Dragon have an interesting
>lunch? I asked the archives, got a list of posts, but couldn't open any
>of them- (obviously that 9-9-99 bug)!
>
>Thanks again...
>
>From the PossumWorks in TN
>Mark (I guess you KNOW what I'm workin' on!)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | RV6 Tail Wheel Mount Exit Hole |
Well, I'm about to cut the hole in the skin that the
tail wheel mount sticks out of. It will need to be
kind of an odd shape. Any words of wisdom before I
take my die grinder to it?
Thanks...
Larry Olson
Cave Creek, AZ
RV6 - Skinin the Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Main battery cable size |
>What size wire are people using for the main battery cable. I gotta
>get mine. Richard says his (#2) cable sometimes doesn't seem to
>"carry the load."
For airplanes where the battery is on or just behind
the firewall, 4AWG is fine for all the "fat" wires.
If the battery has to be further away, like on the
other end of the airplane from the engine, #2 is better.
I have dozens of Ez builders who have run 2 strands
of #2 full length of the airplane to crank an O-320.
4AWG is about .00025 ohms per foot. A 24 foot round
trip in an Ez is .006 ohms. A 200 amp cranking current
will drop 1.2 volts or about 12 to 15% of your total
cranking energy. 2AWG drops to .004 ohms total
for a voltage drop of 0.8 volts in the wire. Of
course each terminal joint and set of contactor
contacts will ADD to this resistance but our experience
has shown good performance for even the long circuits
just cited when 2AWG is used.
If someone is having difficulties with a 2AWG
wired starter, I strongly suspect a combination
of tired battery, high resistance joints or high
resistance contactors are the major contributors
to the problem. Some measurements with a
voltmeter while loading the system with an
automotive load-type battery tester will quickly
isolate the causes.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Restrictor Orfice Sizes |
In a message dated 9/9/99 4:46:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, whays(at)juno.com
writes:
<< I need some information concerning the size of the restrictor orifices you
drill for the manifold pressure, fuel pressure, and oil pressure fittings
that come off the engine. I checked the archives and my saved messages
and found everything I need except the size of the restrictor orifice. I
would imagine somewhere in the #60 to #80 drill bit range. >>
This is an excerpt from my article on aircraft system design. If you were on
a real ISP, I would send you the whole document.
"All sensors should be mounted to minimize and withstand vibration. Firewall
mounting is preferred. Fluid pressure sensing ports should have engine
mounted flow restrictor fittings (.040-.050" dia for oil, .020-.025" for
fuel). Hoses should travel from the engine uphill to transducers in order to
minimize fouling the small sensing orifices with particulate. Manifold
pressure sensing should include some degree of snubbing to reduce hammering
pulsations. A 1/8" flare fitting has a small enough hole to suffice as
snubber. Excessive snubbing will slow response time and may affect accuracy
of readings."
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lloyd Smithey" <smithey(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New RV-8 mailing list |
I have one request, is it possible to allow people that are interested in
the RV-8
but have not yet bought a kit to read the postings. I'm hoping to get
started next year. Thank you very much.
A lurker Lloyd G. Smithey
smithey(at)prodigy.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Tail Wheel Mount Exit Hole |
Larry Olson wrote:
>
>
> Well, I'm about to cut the hole in the skin that the
> tail wheel mount sticks out of. It will need to be
> kind of an odd shape. Any words of wisdom before I
> take my die grinder to it?
From <http://members.xoom.com/frankv/bunny3b.htm>:
There's a lot of fiddling involved in making a cutout to clear the
tailspring mount. According to my vague recollection of geometry and
conic sections, this cutout should be approximately an ellipse. From
measurement, it should be about 1 1/8" wide at one end, and about 3 1/2"
long. Lots of trial and error needed here.
Don't forget to drill the 1" hole just aft of the F611.
There's also a photo.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Allen head C/S Screws? |
Scott,
Thanks for the info.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
Niantic, CT
*******************
>From: Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Allen head C/S Screws?
>Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 22:30:37 EDT
>
>
>AN aircraft bolts are not stronger than Grade 8 bolts. I think they are
>even a little lower in strength than a Grade 5 bolt, but can't remember
>for sure (anyone else know?).
>
>These two bolts do their jobs in entirely different ways.
>
>A standard AN bolt is rated at 125,000 PSI and is meant to yield if
>overloaded "but not brake or fail entirely" (which means it will have
>evidence and intractability to show that the overload took place.
>
>A grade 8 bolt is much harder (stronger) but as a result if it is loaded
>very much beyond it's design it fractures / snaps with no warning.
>
>The main point is that many people have the idea that if the hardware is
>"aircraft" that it is the strongest available. This is very often not
>the case. More often it means that the hardware is manufactured to a
>close tolerance and is made in an environment that the mfg can prove with
>documentation that each and every lot they make is exactly to the spec
>for that particular piece of hardware.
>
>
>Scott McDaniels
>Former RV-6A owner
>North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
>These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
>not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
MARK
if you look in the bag that your tank gasket and ring come in you will find
in the center of the ring, it looks like excess material just left in there.
there are the 410 backing plates already cut to shap for you. about the
606a, yes yo gotta roll yer on.
good luck
scott
fuselage skins
( down with the flue ) :-(
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airbatix(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: -6 Type S Cowl |
re:"Were there separate instructions that came with the Type S Cowl? All I
have is one large D size drawing, but I thought I remember seeing some text
type instructions."
Dont look too hard for instructions written by Van's guys on the type S
cowl...if they were included, they would probably be useless like the rest of
their manual....their picture (dwg) is truly worth a thousand of their
words...
yes...that's a bit caustic...but Van's documentation is the worst I have ever
seen in any industry...(except a few translations from Taiwan).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Restrictor Orfice Sizes |
Is this list great? Absolutely. I got a private response within 15
minutes referring me to Tony Bingelis's FWF book, (page 229) and sure
enough, there it was, and how to make them.
FWIW. The size of the restrictor holes should be anywhere from .040"
to .060" for the Oil, Manifold, and Fuel pressure sensors, and .070" for
the fuel primer fittings.
Thanks
Wes Hays
RV6A
Rotan, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | Restrictor Orifice Sizes |
Wes,
I used a #70 drill for manifold, fuel and Oil pressure fittings.
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
____
From: whays(at)juno.com
Subject: RV-List: Restrictor Orfice Sizes
Listers
I need some information concerning the size of the restrictor
orfices you
drill for the manifold pressure, fuel pressure, and oil pressure
fittings
that come off the engine. I checked the archives and my saved
messages
and found everything I need except the size of the restrictor
orfice. I
would imagine somewhere in the #60 to #80 drill bit range.
Anybody out there know where I can find it, or please let me know
what
size works best.
Thanks in advance.
Wes Hays
RV6-A
Engine stuff! (at last)
Rotan, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Silverstein, Chuck" <chuck.silverstein(at)LMCO.COM> |
| Subject: | Allen head C/S Screws? |
This sums it up very nicely.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Rowbotham [mailto:crowbotham(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 4:35 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Allen head C/S Screws?
Scott,
Thanks for the info.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
Niantic, CT
*******************
>From: Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Allen head C/S Screws?
>Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 22:30:37 EDT
>
>
>AN aircraft bolts are not stronger than Grade 8 bolts. I think they are
>even a little lower in strength than a Grade 5 bolt, but can't remember
>for sure (anyone else know?).
>
>These two bolts do their jobs in entirely different ways.
>
>A standard AN bolt is rated at 125,000 PSI and is meant to yield if
>overloaded "but not brake or fail entirely" (which means it will have
>evidence and intractability to show that the overload took place.
>
>A grade 8 bolt is much harder (stronger) but as a result if it is loaded
>very much beyond it's design it fractures / snaps with no warning.
>
>The main point is that many people have the idea that if the hardware is
>"aircraft" that it is the strongest available. This is very often not
>the case. More often it means that the hardware is manufactured to a
>close tolerance and is made in an environment that the mfg can prove with
>documentation that each and every lot they make is exactly to the spec
>for that particular piece of hardware.
>
>
>Scott McDaniels
>Former RV-6A owner
>North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
>These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
>not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Restrictor Orfice Sizes |
I'm on a real ISP and I'd like to see it! It would be valuable for the
builders in my EAA Chapter and for those who don't know when they come for
repairs at Oshkosh.
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
EAA volunteer for 28 continous years
>
>In a message dated 9/9/99 4:46:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, whays(at)juno.com
>writes:
>
><< I need some information concerning the size of the restrictor orifices you
> drill for the manifold pressure, fuel pressure, and oil pressure fittings
> that come off the engine. I checked the archives and my saved messages
> and found everything I need except the size of the restrictor orifice. I
> would imagine somewhere in the #60 to #80 drill bit range. >>
>
>This is an excerpt from my article on aircraft system design. If you were
on
>a real ISP, I would send you the whole document.
>
>"All sensors should be mounted to minimize and withstand vibration.
Firewall
>mounting is preferred. Fluid pressure sensing ports should have engine
>mounted flow restrictor fittings (.040-.050" dia for oil, .020-.025" for
>fuel). Hoses should travel from the engine uphill to transducers in order
to
>minimize fouling the small sensing orifices with particulate. Manifold
>pressure sensing should include some degree of snubbing to reduce hammering
>pulsations. A 1/8" flare fitting has a small enough hole to suffice as
>snubber. Excessive snubbing will slow response time and may affect accuracy
>of readings."
>
>-GV
>
>
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
Visit our web site at... http://www.bellanca-championclub.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "george murphy" <george(at)atlantic.net> |
I have a completed RV6/A enpennage for sale, excellent workmanship, primed
inside and out, balanced. Comes with plans and manual.
george(at)atlantic.net or 352-799-0922
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Griffin"<skydog(at)pacifier.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New RV-8 mailing list |
>
>Gee ... I dunno ... after all, your airplane is FASTER than mine. Not so
>sure that's fair.
>My goodness, it does appear as though jealousy is indeed the
grandest form of flattery of all!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | oil cooler & wood prop for 220hp 6A |
| From: | "Janet D Lein" <lein1jd(at)mail.cmich.edu> |
I'm happy to report that the Tripco 20004A oil cooler has brought my oil
temperatures in my IO-360 down to an acceptable level. This model cooler
is an identical replacement for the largest cooler Van's sells. It is a
little lighter and a little more expensive, as well as as little more
efficient. I have the cooler mounted behind #4 on the baffles. Last
Saturday I took my daughter for her first ride in the RV. On a 90 degree
day we did a maximum performance climb to about 8500'. Oil temperatures
climbed to 102 centigrade and when I leveled off they immediately started
to come down. I suspect for all "normal" flying the oil temperatures will
stay in the 90s centigrade.
Now that I can spend more time at the higher speed ranges I find the
Aymar-Demuth 68/81 prop is underpitched. I can exceed 2700 at any
altitude and although I haven't pulled beyond 2750 I don't think I want
to find out where it stops gaining rpm. (The thread on catastrophic
engine failures in the 2800-2900 rpm range made a strong impression on me
-- I really don't think pistons the size of coffee cans like changing
direction that fast.) To be fair, the guys at A-D recommended originally
a 68/82, but I told them I have a shorter field than is ideal and didn't
want to fly final like a 747, so I'm not faulting them for the prop's
performance.
Sensenich has recommended a wooden prop with a part no. W71t5hm8-85. Are
there any of you flying behind Sensenich props in this hp and speed range
that can add insight? How about the relative efficiency of the Sensenich
blade design, which I assume is unchanged for many, many years, and the
newer props like A-D, etc. I know it is not uncommon to have to play prop
roulette when using an engine/airplane combination that is a little less
common, so I don't feel like The Lone Ranger in this situation. These are
experimentals, right?
Two more questions that may be relative only to my particular airplane.
1) What sort of true airspeeds can I reasonably expect with a 6A fixed
pitch airframe? I know the speeds Steve Barnard gets on his 6A are by far
the exception. I presently can TAS 200 any time I want, but I think more
rpm or more prop might give me more speed. If any RV-6A pilots would like
to respond off list about real world airspeeds, I promise I won't be
indiscreet with such intimate details -- grin, wink, wink! 2) There is a
subtle change in the sound of the air flowing around my airplane as I
exceed 180 mph. There is a high-pitched whistle that starts at that speed
and I remember there was a thread on the leading of the tip-up making a
similar sound on one airplane. It's a small change in sound (No, it
doesn't sound like a WW II airplane in a power dive screaming in
protest.) Any suggestions here?
Thanks in advance for insight, encouragement or scolding,
115PJ flying but not quite as finished as I would like
Cheers, Paul Lein
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: "Airflow Performance" |
| From: | "Janet D Lein" <lein1jd(at)mail.cmich.edu> |
Klaus,
I use their 12volt high pressure pump on my IO-360 and found it and the
guys at Airflow to be great. I wish I had the full system.
Good luck,
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Allen head C/S Screws? |
>the case. More often it means that the hardware is manufactured to a
>close tolerance and is made in an environment that the mfg can prove with
>documentation that each and every lot they make is exactly to the spec
>for that particular piece of hardware.
>
>
>Scott McDaniels
Yep, we pay all the extra money for the documentation and our AN hardware
still comes to the end user defective. Once had a full box of AN nuts
delivered with no threads. Also got a bolt in Van's wing kit that was very
bent. So, you are the last QA inspector for the parts that go into your RV.
Rick Caldwell
RV-6 Glassing the sliding canopy rear skirts
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 weight and balance |
> The RV-8 weight and balance example in the manual was for N58RV which had
> an O-320 with a constant speed prop, forward mounted battery, ELT
> mounted at the far aft of the baggage compartment, separate strobe power
> supplies mounted near the wing spar on each tip rib, and a moderately
> equipped panel (basic VFR instruments, turn coordinator, VM1000 engine
> instrumentation, transponder, IImorrow SL40 slim line COM, and IImorrow
> 360 GPS moving map display).
Thanks Scott, this will help. I'm now planning to mount the battery in the rear
position, even
though that violates the general recommendation. The plane will have an O-360,
Sensenich Aluminum
prop, inverted oil system, and a pretty full panel with electric gyros but no nav
equipment other
than the Garmin 195. I also plan to use the lower part of the front baggage compartment
as
permanent storage for things like tools, tie-downs, canopy cover, etc. It will
be easy to pack that
compartment with foam, and put a top on it to keep everything in place during aerobatics.
This
configuration seems like it will certainly be more nose heavy than the example,
and even the example
seems too nose heavy for my purposes. If you run the numbers on the example, without
a passenger or
any baggage (more than 50% of my intended flying), it's outside the forward end
of the CG. Since
the first 25-40 hours will have to be flown solo, I thought it was odd that there
were no examples
given without a passenger.
All that said, I realize that everything is a compromise, and even with the same
plane, two
different builders might want something different. In my case, I expect to fly
a lot of solo time
with aerobatics, and that has different requirements from someone that might plan
to fly almost all
cross country with heavy passengers and baggage. I guess I won't know if I screwed
up until the
plane hits the scales.
Thanks again,
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (canopy frame)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Valuation of Partially Completed Kit |
| From: | Michael L Talley <m.talley(at)juno.com> |
Any suggestions as to how to put a price on a partially completed RV-6
kit.?
Empenage finished, wings finished except for sealing/installation of the
tank rear baffles.
Fuselage kit unopened.
All parts alodined and expoxy primed.
Mike Talley
Arlington WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BumFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | AN specs and barrel rolls |
In a message dated 9/9/99 22:06:36, dreed(at)cdsnet.net writes:
<<
Just for interest perhaps the gentleman known only as 'Bumflyer' can give us
the specs on AN hardware? >>
Thank you for bestowing me the title of gentleman.
No, unfortunately, I can not give you a synopsis of AN specs for hardware. I
may occasionally sound like I know what I am talking about, but beware.
My last assignment in the U. S. Air Force was as the commander of the Defense
Industrial Supply Center. This was an element of the Defense Logistics
Agency. Our job was to buy all the hardware for the Department of Defense.
We had about 2,000 employess in Philadelphia for this task. To provide such
a definition I would have to call on more than a few of those good men and
women in Philadelphia.
I stand on my previous statement that stronger and brittler was a good
simplistic definition for grade 8. I am pleased and impressed with the
answers on the list so far.
I note that all bolts on the Lycoming seem to be grade 8, coarse thread.
These are fine products, when used properly. Don't use them on your RV,
elsewhere folks!
Now, if you want to know how to do a good barrel roll in an RV--- I am your
man. I am quite current on that. I did eight yesterday.
D Walsh, retired, unemployed. RV-6A 505 hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Valuation of Partially Completed Kit |
With quick-builds out there you kits are worth about what you paid for them.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: oil cooler & wood prop for 220hp 6A |
If you like the A-D prop you have why not just have 'em make you a new one
pitched the way you want. He might even help you sell the one you have.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | First Flight N401RH |
After 6 years and 10 months my RV-4 finally took to the air with Jerry
VanGrunsven at the controls last night.
The plane was signed off for flight last Saturday along with Randall
Henderson's and I had planed for Mike Seager to fly it on Monday. On
Wednesday night I got a call from Jerry suggesting that it would make a great
"Opener" for the Home Wing builders group meeting that was scheduled for
Randall's and my hanger for Thursday night. So with 60+ people watching
Jerry proceeded to test fly the plane with Ken Scott in chase in the factory
6A.
The flight lasted about 25 minutes, all narrated to the ground by Jerry and
Ken. After landing Jerry pronounced that it flew perfect and that I did not
need to change a thing.
The following are some of the specifics:
1) Aerosport Power IO-360 B1B 180HP Engine
2) Constant speed propeller
3) Electric Flaps
4) Electric Trim
5) 1027 LB empty weight with no exterior paint, but finished interior
including leather seats.
6) Front and Rear mixed air for ventilation, selectable from cold to hot
independently from each seat.
The one unusual thing about the plane is that it has my own engine monitor.
I have an active matrix monochrome display that has the following features
all with digital and analog displays:
1) Manifold Pressure
2) RPM
3) 4 Cylinder EGT and CHT
4) Volts and Amps
5) Oil Temp and PSI
6) Fuel Pressure and Flow
7) Trim Indicators
8) Flap Angle
9) Fuel Gauges
10) OAT
I still have a lot of changes that I want to make to the software.
Rob Hickman
N401RH - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CTonnini(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: "Airflow Performance" |
I heve airflow call me in the phone 1 8005823125 Claudio Purple pasion
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick E. Kelley" <patk(at)megsinet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Valuation of Partially Completed Kit |
Cost of components minus some depreciation plus a little for your reputation as
a builder. Remember, you are competing with low cost alternatives (i.e. kits or
QB) and your time invested does not mean much unless you are a noted builder.
Especially as the new owner may need to change some things to suit his/her
preferences. You'd do better if you could complete the project and sell it
flying.
PatK - RV-6A
Michael L Talley wrote:
> Any suggestions as to how to put a price on a partially completed RV-6
> kit.?
> Empenage finished, wings finished except for sealing/installation of the
> tank rear baffles.
> Fuselage kit unopened.
> All parts alodined and expoxy primed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: oil cooler & wood prop for 220hp 6A |
| From: | "Janet D Lein" <lein1jd(at)mail.cmich.edu> |
>
>If you like the A-D prop you have why not just have 'em make you a new one
>pitched the way you want. He might even help you sell the one you have.
Yes, this is definitely an option, but Mike already thinks I've got the
right prop, despite the overspeeding. I suspect if he were to cut me a
deal on a second prop, I would stick with him, but since I'm in no giant
hurry, I want to explore all options. Thanks for the reply.
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight N6R |
All right, Rob shamed me into it with his post about his first flight. I
guess I'd better give a more "official" report on mine.
RV-6 N6R flew on September 5, around 5:00pm. Airport was HIO (Hillsboro,
OR). Ken Scott (RV-6) and Denny Jackson (RV-4) flew chase.
No major issues, just a few minor ones -- had a fairly heavy wing, which I
fixed with coaching from Jerry VanG. Some stuff chafing on the cowl (heat
muff and scat tube) which I fixed. G meter still caged -- oops!
I flew it myself which I was reasonably comfortable doing since I have about
35 hours PIC time in RV-6s and -6As (it pays to live close to Van's and have
a lot of RV builder/flyer buddies!) So I was mainly testing the plane, not
the pilot!
First flight lasted about 25 minutes. Tried some slow flight and approach
stalls, but otherwise kept it up to 75% power for engine break-in purposes.
I have made several subsequent flights, for a total of 4.5 hours on the tach
now. Wheel pants and leg fairings still off, will try it with them on today
probably.
Specifications:
O-360-A1A
Hartzell constant speed prop
"Light" IFR (vacum gyros, marker beacon, single Nav/Com)
Mostly analog engine gauges
Matronics FuelScan LT fuel computer
Sliding Canopy
Manual trim
Electric flaps
Unpainted (hope to do that this winter)
No interior (using some borrowed seat cushions for now)
Empty weight 1060 lbs.
I'll try to put some pictures up on the Home Wing Home Page when I have the
time. Right now I'm too busy flying and tweaking!
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (flying)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight N401RH |
Rob,
CONGRATULATIONS & WELL DONE !!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
Niantic, CT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "V. E. Welch" <Vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
| Subject: | Fiberglass dilemma |
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I have a bit of a problem. I cut and shaped a piece of 1/2" Styrofoam and
used it to close up the tip of my rudder. It was inset about 1/16", taped
in place, and then the tip was removed from the rudder, so far, so good.
Strips of fiberglass were wet with epoxy resin (purchased from Home Depot
and mixed 1:1 with hardener in accord with instructions) and placed inside
of the tip against the back of the foam. That was allowed to setup for a
day (it got stiff but not completely hard) then a mixture of resin (again
1:1) and microballons was made up and used to fill the 1/16" cavity until
it was flush with the end.
After several days the mixture had only hardened to the consistency of a
stiff gum. It was still way to soft to sand. I have tried heat from a
hair dryer several times with no luck. It has been two weeks now and it is
still not completely hard.
HELP!!!!!! Any suggestions from the fiberglass Guru's among you would be
greatly appreciated.
Vince
So happy NOT to be building a glass bird
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Barnes <skytop(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Tail Wheel Mount Exit Hole |
Here's how I did mine.
Used a piece of card board from a case of pop.
Cut a hole larger than required.
Used paste-it notes to fill in the outside, up to the weldment.
Traced the new outline onto a sheet of scrap galvanized sheet metal and cut
and fit.
Layout on tail cone and cut smaller than required. fine tune with file.
Tom Barnes -6 canopy
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com>
Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 10:27 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV6 Tail Wheel Mount Exit Hole
>
>Well, I'm about to cut the hole in the skin that the
>tail wheel mount sticks out of. It will need to be
>kind of an odd shape. Any words of wisdom before I
>take my die grinder to it?
>
>Thanks...
>
>Larry Olson
>Cave Creek, AZ
>RV6 - Skinin the Fuse
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass dilemma |
Set it out in direct sunlight. This should trigger the reaction. You
probably didn't get true epoxy, but a polyester.
>
>Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
>I have a bit of a problem. I cut and shaped a piece of 1/2" Styrofoam and
>used it to close up the tip of my rudder. It was inset about 1/16", taped
>in place, and then the tip was removed from the rudder, so far, so good.
> Strips of fiberglass were wet with epoxy resin (purchased from Home Depot
>and mixed 1:1 with hardener in accord with instructions) and placed inside
>of the tip against the back of the foam. That was allowed to setup for a
>day (it got stiff but not completely hard) then a mixture of resin (again
>1:1) and microballons was made up and used to fill the 1/16" cavity until
>it was flush with the end.
>
>After several days the mixture had only hardened to the consistency of a
>stiff gum. It was still way to soft to sand. I have tried heat from a
>hair dryer several times with no luck. It has been two weeks now and it is
>still not completely hard.
>
>HELP!!!!!! Any suggestions from the fiberglass Guru's among you would be
>greatly appreciated.
>
>Vince
>So happy NOT to be building a glass bird
>
>
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
Visit our web site at... http://www.bellanca-championclub.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)krl.org> |
| Subject: | Hangar space in MSP for about 15 days...? |
Hello any RV guys in MSP area.
I am launching on a trip after sending this message that will put me in
MSP on the 19th or 20th to leave my airplane there while returning to
Seattle on the airline for about 15 days.
Any hangar space available in that area that I could leave my RV-6 in for
that 15 days would be most appreciated and of course I would be most
willing to pay for.
Note however that I will be on the road monitoring a different e-mail
address should you respond to this message.
Please respond to CAPR13(at)aol.com.
Thank you,
Ron Vandervort, N84N RV-6, Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BSEckstein(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass dilemma |
In a message dated 9/10/99 6:44:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Vwelch(at)knownet.net writes:
<<
>>
I had a similar problem on my horizontal stabilizer. I figured that it was
because I did not mixing the epoxy well enough. I was able to remove it all
by scraping, sandpaper and solvents.
Also, 1:1 epoxy is not recommended for our uses. Most people use the West
system. I've found that Raku marine products are the same and cheaper.
Brian Eckstein
6A finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: "Airflow Performance" |
| From: | Carl Froehlich <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
Claudio,
Please post your impressions of the Airflow Performance injection
system. I'm guessing others besides me are interested.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A fuselage
Vienna, VA
>Subject: Re: RV-List: "Airflow Performance"
>Sent: 9/14/19 5:45 AM
>Received: 9/10/99 2:36 PM
>From: CTonnini(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: RV List, rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: RV List, rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>I heve airflow call me in the phone 1 8005823125 Claudio Purple pasion
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRobert569(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass dilemma |
This sounds like polyester laminating resin to me. I have been helping a
friend build his Cozy Mark-IV and we have never had a problem kicking over
the epoxy. But the first time my friend used a polyester resin it dried
sticky. He called me because I used to build surf boards as a kid. I told
him to likely sand it, get some finishing resin and brush it over the
laminating resin. Worked like a charm. I would not recommend this as it
would tend to make for heavy work.
Even if it is epoxy resin I would not recommend using a household grade resin
on your aircraft. Either use true epoxy resin from someone like Acft Spruce
or get the West System epoxy from a marine supply house.
Mike Robertson
RV-8AQB N809RS
Installing controls
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight N401RH |
>
>After 6 years and 10 months my RV-4 finally took to the air with Jerry
>VanGrunsven at the controls last night.
Congratulations, Rob. Sounds like a great airplane and a great first flight.
>The one unusual thing about the plane is that it has my own engine monitor.
>I have an active matrix monochrome display that has the following features
>all with digital and analog displays:
Sounds real interesting. Are you going to market it? Any chances of
putting up some pictures somewhere so we can see your panel?
Regards,
Tom (still skinning that d##### fusilage and letting Larry Olson get ahead
of me ) Velvick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | PowerSport Rotary Engines |
| From: | Carl Froehlich <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
For those interested in rotary engines.....
At Oshkosh I had the opportunity to talk at length with the chief
engineer for the PowerSport rotary aircraft engines, Steve Weinzierl. My
estimate is they have turned the corner and now have a very good product
ready for market. Here is a summary of my observations:
- 200(+) HP.
- BSFC is about that of the IO-360.
- The typical rotary cooling problems seem to be under control.
- Ignition and injection systems are the best I have seen.
- The new PSRU is a big improvement over the Ross product, and should
handle much more engine (I assume it will be used on the 3 rotor 20B
engine as well).
- Installed weight is 60 lbm (or so) less than the IO-360.
- Retail price $18,000. Total firewall forward (engine mount,
streamline cowl, accessories, heat exchanger, etc.) around $22,000.
- TBO yet to be determined but 2000 hours is not unreasonable.
- Overhaul costs < $1000.
- Optional super-charger will be offered later (higher HP and altitude
performance).
- Tuned induction and exhaust (critical elements on a rotary) work well.
I followed up my Oshkosh discussion with a query to PowerSport on
availability of the firewall forward package for my RV-8A. Here is the
response:
"Thank-you for your letter. It's encouraging to hear from people
who have noticed the thought and effort we have put into the PowerSport
products.
We have been receiving many more requests for the RV8 this year at
Oshkosh than we expected. Last year we had 254 people sign up, but the
most requested firewall forward package was the RV6, and Glastar,
followed by the RV4 and RV8 was 5th. We have been telling others we
would like to see 6 orders for the full firewall forward package of the
RV8 or 8A to commit to building them, but that was mainly due to the
tooling cost of the special cowl we wanted to provide with the package.
This cowl would complete the aerodynamic benefit the PowerSport
installation offers. All other components of that package could be
offered as soon as we have a customer to commit. We have completed the
updates to the reduction drive design and starting manufacturing a run of
5 to be completed by Oct 15. We have had non PowerSport rotary customers
waiting to upgrade to our reduction drive and want to satisfy them.
We know the performance numbers the former PowerSport's RV4, and
Allen Tohl had demonstrated in his RV3. We also believe the refinements
we have added address the reduction drive and will add to the overall
credibilty to the PowerSport rotary program they began. We should have
our PowerSport engine and glass cockpit equipped RV6A in Nov. The first
PowerSport Customer engine and glass cockpit package goes in a Velocity.
He picks up his engine Oct 22 to install in his completed airplane. We
would love to also see a PowerSport powered customer RV8 flying and we
feel we can meet your schedule.
Please review our updated web page http://www.powersportaviation.com
and thank-you for your letter, call me if we can help".
Ray Richardson Jr.
president
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A
Fuselage
Vienna, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: -6 Type S Cowl |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
>
>Dont look too hard for instructions written by Van's guys on the type
>S
>cowl...if they were included, they would probably be useless like the
>rest of
>their manual....their picture (dwg) is truly worth a thousand of their
>
>words...
>
>yes...that's a bit caustic...but Van's documentation is the worst I
>have ever
>seen in any industry...(except a few translations from Taiwan).
>
-
Yes, rather caustic and you didn't even sign your name!
I will be expecting your copy of the construction manual in the mail next
week since you think it is worthless (So I am assuming you are not using
it to assemble your RV-6(A). :-)
I have heard and read many testimonials of builders with experience
constructing a large variety of complex projects from plans and manuals
(even other brand kit planes), that thought the plans and manuals were
quite good.
Sure they can always be improved, and they have been. ( try building an
RV-6 kit that is 10 years old without getting new plans and manuals).
It just wouldn't be fair for the lurkers on the list that are sitting on
the fence trying to decide if they can do this, to hear just one opinion
and feel that without good instructions they would probably fail.
Very few of the people that have built RV's were experts when they
started (they only become that after they finished).
Hoping to hear some other opinions (please be polite !).
BTW... I guess I should be flattered, since many of the new drawings
(like the one mentioned) are the result of I and some other new blood in
the company. Sorry we can afford the time to rewrite or redraw every
single page... we are to busy on top secret design projects.
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 weight and balance |
66-77,81,83-91
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
>Thanks Scott, this will help. I'm now planning to mount the battery
>in the rear position, even
>though that violates the general recommendation. The plane will have
>an O-360, Sensenich Aluminum
>prop, inverted oil system, and a pretty full panel with electric gyros
>but no nav equipment other
>than the Garmin 195. I also plan to use the lower part of the front
>baggage compartment as
>permanent storage for things like tools, tie-downs, canopy cover, etc.
> It will be easy to pack that
>compartment with foam, and put a top on it to keep everything in place
>during aerobatics. This
>configuration seems like it will certainly be more nose heavy than the
>example, and even the example
>seems too nose heavy for my purposes. If you run the numbers on the
>example, without a passenger or
>any baggage (more than 50% of my intended flying), it's outside the
>forward end of the CG.
-
?????
I am very confused.
I just opened the RV-8 manual and the very first sample (sample 1) is for
a standard 170 lb pilot and passenger with full fuel.
If the passenger was removed the C.G. position would be 79.93 " aft of
the datum.
This is 1.23 inches "aft" of the fwd limit on the C.G. range (78.70 " to
86.82 ")
If the pilot is bigger the C.G. moves even further aft. A 230 lb pilot
flying solo with full fuel would have a C.G. position of 80.38 " aft of
the datum.
Since you are planning to use a metal fixed prop. you will have about 30
lbs less weight up front (25 of it right at the prop location) compared
to the Hartzel constant speed that was on the sample airplane.
In rough calculations I estimate that this alone would move the empty
C.G. aft about 1.4 inches.
Doing some rough/quick calculations I found that moving a 23 lb. battery
between the fwd and aft locations would shift the empty C.G. about 2.2
inches.
That means you could end up with an "empty" C.G. of 79.8 " aft of the
datum. Now if you add a 170 lb pilot and full fuel you could conceivably
have a "loaded" C.G. position of 86.0 " aft of the datum. This is only
0.82 " fwd of the aft limit. You wont be able burn off much fuel without
going aft of the limit.
With a fixed pitch metal prop I think an aft battery would be a big
mistake.
I suggest you don't commit until you are building the fuselage and can
take arm measurements of different component locations. It is then a
very easy task to use the weight and balance form, subtract the item from
the airplane, and then re-add it in at the new location.
Since
>the first 25-40 hours will have to be flown solo, I thought it was odd
>that there were no examples
>given without a passenger.
>
Just subtract the passenger weight form the total weight, and subtract
the passenger moment from the total moment. Now divide the new weight
into the new moment and you have the new C.G. location.
You can do the same thing with any single item on the airplane (as long
as you can measure the distance aft of the datum and you know what it's
weight is, you can then determin the moment by multiplying the weight
times the arm distance).
>All that said, I realize that everything is a compromise, and even
>with the same plane, two
>different builders might want something different. In my case, I
>expect to fly a lot of solo time
>with aerobatics, and that has different requirements from someone that
>might plan to fly almost all
>cross country with heavy passengers and baggage. I guess I won't know
>if I screwed up until the
>plane hits the scales.
-
I think with a little calculating time on a calculator you can get a very
good idea where your actual empty C.G. will be (as long is you can get
some info as to different engine weights, propeller weights, weight of
batterys, etc).
BTW the airplane in the sample had a Concord RG-25 battery (about 23
lbs.)
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elrod3794(at)aol.com |
hay guys
does any one know when the RV fly in at Lebanon Tennessee(m54)
thanks
Mike Elrod RV8a qb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: "Airflow Performance" |
I have there system installed on my RV4....
300hr to date.. The system is wonderfull!!!!!
Stewart RV4 0320 CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BSEckstein(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | Re: -6 Type S Cowl |
Van's does a very good job of walking the new builder through the early
stages especially. The manuals include extensive text on materials, tools,
and techniques. And, even helps with test flying. Once past the empennage
and wings, less explicit guidance is needed. If one wants more detailed
explainations, there are supplementary notes by Frank Justice and Will
Crestinger that are a wonderful value to the RV builder community. This is
one of the benefits of making the right choice up front.
Brian Eckstein
6A finishing details
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: dimpling .032" sheets |
For thick material like .032, I used to dimple and then CSK with my
Microstop. Usually would shave off a few thou and improve the fit.
Bruce Patton
6a 596S Flying a bunch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel H. Morris" <morristec(at)icdc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "Airflow Performance" |
Klaus,
I have the Airflow Performance injection system on an RV-6 with the 0-320,
160 hp (installed 3 yrs. ago). The system is an excellent purchase and
included all parts required, and is high quality. The system installed
pretty easily. With exception of some of the comments listed below the
operation of the system is great. Don, at Airflow Performance was very
helpful with any questions, and subsequent support. The manual is now very
explicit, and provides all of the pointers needed for installation and
operation. Below are some comments on things to be aware of about
operation.
1. Eliminates primer system.
2. Easy starting hot or cold.
3 Eliminates requirement for carb heat system, although some sort of
alternate air arrangement is highly recommended. In any case carb icing is
not an issue.
4. Functions throughout negative G maneuvers.
5. Mixture cutoff is not zero leakage, and after shutdown a small amount of
fuel will continue to drip from the nozzels as the fuel pressure bleeds
down. This can result in the engine not shutting down cleanly, and possibly
some fuel dripping into the air filter. Airflow Performance does have a
purge valve, which they recommend, that permits you to relieve the fuel
pressure and prevent this. I hadn't planned for this when building and
think that it would be a good idea today.
6. When the engine is hot, and the ambient air is hot, the engine lopes at
idle. It is directly related to the temperature, and is vapor related. The
engine always runs fine above 1200 RPM or so. I am continuing to try to
improve the situation just because it sounds bad. Consider that this is a
common problem with all injected engines in tightly cowled installations.
Keep the fuel as cool as possible, and the exposure to firewall forward
minimized.
7. The engine runs smoothly in flight, and leans the cylinders evenly.
-----Original Message-----
From: Klaus Heddergott <klaus(at)yosemite.net>
Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 10:45 PM
Subject: RV-List: "Airflow Performance"
>
>Listers!
>I would like to hear from anyone who has an "Airflow Performance" fuel
>injection system on their RV.
>I have a RV-6 with an O-360 carburated Lycoming engine. I'm considering
>changing to an "Airflow Performance" fuel injection system.
>Hopefully I will hear from people who are happy with the system. But at
>the same time I would also like to find out about any possible problems.
>
>If any of you listers know of someone with that system on their RV that
>doesn't have access to this list, I would appreciate their phone number,
>so I could get in touch with them.
>Thanks in advance, Klaus
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "Airflow Performance" |
Does anyone know whether the Airflow Performance system will operate in a
turbocharged system??
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW
Matthew NC
>
> I have there system installed on my RV4....
> 300hr to date.. The system is wonderfull!!!!!
> Stewart RV4 0320 CO.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: quality of instructions, was: -6 Type S Cowl |
>
>It just wouldn't be fair for the lurkers on the list that are sitting on
>the fence trying to decide if they can do this, to hear just one opinion
>and feel that without good instructions they would probably fail.
>
>Very few of the people that have built RV's were experts when they
>started (they only become that after they finished).
>
>Hoping to hear some other opinions (please be polite !).
>
Scott,
Well, you asked for it :-)
To put this in context - I am building an RV-8. This is my first
homebuilt aircraft. The tail is done except for the leading edges on
the rudder and elevators, and the fibreglas work. The wings are
about 80% done. The fuselage bulkheads are built.
The instructions and plans, when viewed together have all the
required info. But, in my opinion, it would be a big improvement if
the instructions specifically referred to the little gems of info
that are sprinkled all over the plans. I find that I have a tendency
to sometimes miss some of those details that are on the plans. For
example, I riveted the upper wing skins on one wing last weekend. I
missed a notation on the plans that said not to put a number of
rivets in the root rib, as those holes will be used to attach the
wing root fairing. So, I'll have to drill out those rivets. Not a
big deal, and I should have studied the plans more closely, but I
would rather have seen this info in the instructions.
This might just be a personal preference, but I would prefer it if
the instructions were formatted a bit differently. It is formatted
like a book, with paragraphs, and there can be a huge amount of info
in one paragraph. I would prefer if each piece of info was listed
separately, with it's own bullet, or number. This would require a
very large increase in the number of pages, but would be easier to
follow.
I would prefer a better system of handling drawing revisions. Heck,
the preview plans that I ordered the same time as my wing kit has
revisions in it that my wing kit plans don't. Yes, some revisions
can be found in the RV-ator. But others don't show up there. They
should all be available from the web site. There should be a list of
each plans sheet, with the current revision status. There should be
links to graphics files that showed every revision. Builders should
be able to register to get an e-mail alert every time there is a
drawing revision.
Bottom line - the instructions are adequate, but I would prefer that
they be improved. Sure it would cost a bit of time, but it wouldn't
have to cost much more per kit, once you amortized the cost over the
number of kits sold per year.
But, the other aspects of the RV series are so superior, that the
relative quality of the instructions should not be a factor in the
decision whether to build an RV or something else. I haven't
regretted the decision to build the RV-8.
Just my opinion.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (LH fuel tank & RH wing skins)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/nojpi.html - No JPI stuff in my aircraft!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randylervold(at)csi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: -6 Type S Cowl |
> Hoping to hear some other opinions (please be polite !).
> Scott McDaniels
Never one to sugar coat anything, I'd rate Van's RV-8 manual (haven't looked
at the -4 or -6) as a solid "B". When building from it you quickly see the
pattern... for each section there is first a paragraph explaining the
overall mission and concept, then sequential paragraphs describing the
assembly sequence. Hey, a "B", while not an "A", is not too bad, I'm not
complaining.
Now if I were to rate the company support there is simply no question it
would get an "A+". Without exception, every single person I deal with at
Van's has been totally supportive and helpful, and that applies to everyone
from the shipping folks on up. Since I live in the area I probably have more
opportunity than many of you to deal with the people personally, and I'm
here to tell you it's a pleasure. I'm not sure who's responsible for this,
whether it's Van, Bill B., or just the water in Oregon, but this kind of
support and positive attitude is unfortunately rare in business today. Sure
mistakes happen once in awhile, but they are always there with a positive
attitude to correct things. I don't think you'll find any other kit
manufacturer that consistently demonstrates this kind of attitude, and
offers the value they do to boot.
Many kit manufacturers have NO manual whatsoever, go try to build a Stewart
51 Mustang. Ask a Glastar builder right now about the auxillary header tank
situation (but only if you want to get an ear full). So I don't buy off on
the "worst in the industry" comment at all, in fact I'm thrilled to have a
company like this to buy a kit from, because as we all know just buying the
kit is not the point, you're getting into a long term relationship.
Ok, off the soapbox.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, drilling canopy this weekend
Home Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Instructions/Plans Feedback (was -6 Type S Cowl) |
On 10 Sep 99, at 21:13, Scott R McDaniels wrote:
> Hoping to hear some other opinions (please be polite !).
I've essentially completed my RV-6A quickbuild (#60023, 1996
instructions). All that's left is finishing the Imron painting. My
background: no metal working experience prior to the RV project, little
significant shop experience, had previously built one mediocre
bookshelf by myself.
My assessment of the instructions/plans: I give the 1996 version of
the instructions somewhere between a B and C (assuming C is truly
"average" and an "A" would be reserved for the top 10% of technical
writing). There were several places where the instructions were
somewhat sketchy, but generally they were at least adequate. In some
places they were quite good. The most notable "not adequate"
section was the canopy (slider) instruction section. I was quite
disappointed with that section -- problems such as physically
impossible directions and confused sequence of events. Luckily, the
Tri State newsletter had an outstanding set of instructions for the
slider canopy (I'll scan a copy for anybody who wants it). If one
combines the stock 1996 instructions with the Tri State issues on the
canopy you'll be in good shape. The RV list serves as a great source
of information as well.
It appears that Van's has revised the instructions since 1996. From
what little I've seen, they've improved (and they were generally not
bad to begin with).
My thoughts for prospective builders:
- Van's has treated me right.
- The kit is a good kit for the money - I'm still glad I bought mine
- Builders routinely report performance numbers equal to or exceeding
what Van's claims (that's somewhat unusual in this business)
- Most of the staff at Van's are knowledgeable, friendly, helpful folks
- Van's price on components and parts is usually the best in the
industry
My advice to prospective builders:
- Get all of Tony Bingelis' books, and read them while you are waiting
for your kit to arrive
- Read the instructions carefully, and read all the way thru the section
you are on.
- Find a tech counselor from EAA, and use him/her for advice
- Call or email Van's for assistance, and don't be afraid to be insistent
about speaking to someone with whom you can relate, and who you
find trustworthy.
- Stick with the RV-List
Tim "End is in sight" Lewis
******
Tim Lewis
timrv6a(at)iname.com
N47TD RV-6A, painting
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a/jpi.html - No JPI stuff in my airplane
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
Found 'em! Thanks, Scott & get better- even plane building is no fun
when yer' sick-
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark
ABAYMAN(at)aol.com wrote:
MARK
if you look in the bag that your tank gasket and ring come in you will
find in the center of the ring, it looks like excess material just left
in there.
there are the 410 backing plates already cut to shap for you. about the
606a, yes yo gotta roll yer on.
good luck
scott
fuselage skins
( down with the flue ) :-(
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BumFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: -6 Type S Cowl |
In a message dated 9/10/99 19:20:00, smcdaniels(at)juno.com writes:
>
>Dont look too hard for instructions written by Van's guys on the type
>S
>cowl...if they were included, they would probably be useless like the
>rest of
>their manual....their picture (dwg) is truly worth a thousand of their
>
>words...
>
>yes...that's a bit caustic...but Van's documentation is the worst I
>have ever
>seen in any industry...(except a few translations from Taiwan).
>
-
Yes, rather caustic and you didn't even sign your name!
I will be expecting your copy of the construction manual in the mail next
week since you think it is worthless (So I am assuming you are not using
it to assemble your RV-6(A). :-)
I have heard and read many testimonials of builders with experience
constructing a large variety of complex projects from plans and manuals
(even other brand kit planes), that thought the plans and manuals were
quite good.
Sure they can always be improved, and they have been. ( try building an
RV-6 kit that is 10 years old without getting new plans and manuals).
It just wouldn't be fair for the lurkers on the list that are sitting on
the fence trying to decide if they can do this, to hear just one opinion
and feel that without good instructions they would probably fail.
Very few of the people that have built RV's were experts when they
started (they only become that after they finished).
Hoping to hear some other opinions (please be polite !).
BTW... I guess I should be flattered, since many of the new drawings
(like the one mentioned) are the result of I and some other new blood in
the company. Sorry we can afford the time to rewrite or redraw every
single page... we are to busy on top secret design projects.
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
>>
I am against emotion on this list. However am making an exception this time.
first thanks Scott for once again providing accurate and informative info.
I have cussed van's plans and instructions many times and am also a very big
fan. I personally believe the problem over the years has been Van's
unswerving honesty and dedication to providing a bargain to his customers.
Since one of the (legitimate) reasons for building a kit plane is for
education, he seems to feel it is not unreasonable that one who is building
his kit should learn how to read plans. he tells you how to do this in the
manual.
Things have changed over the years and the newest customers frequently expect
a cook book approach and don't get it.
Consider this: How much more do you think the kit would cost if it had a
nice detailed cook book manual with numbered steps and cartoons? Furthermore
I estimate if Van were waiting for such development we would still be waiting
for the introduction of the RV-4. Never mind the 6, 6A, 8, and 8A. One look
at his early manuals and drawings should convince you that he is no more of a
fancy writer than an orator. His airplanes and business practices speak for
themselves. I admire him for sticking with what he does best, and demanding
the same focus on quality products from his employees.
I have corresponded with and talked to hundreds of customers over the years,
and have never met one who couldn't finish because the instructions were
inadequate. Sure we all grumble because we get stuck once in a while, but
with the group of supporters we have it is a fun and learning experience.
So go ahead and grumble, but at least recognize you are building the best
product available and that includes the tech data and support.
So flame away. I too can grumble with the best or worst when I get stuck but
I am very happy that van is spending our (customer) money on sound research
development, testing and production of unequalled airplanes instead of fancy
manuals.
Denis L Walsh been there
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 weight and balance 66-77,81,83-91 |
> >seems too nose heavy for my purposes. If you run the numbers on the
> >example, without a passenger or
> >any baggage (more than 50% of my intended flying), it's outside the
> >forward end of the CG.
> -
> ?????
> I am very confused.
> I just opened the RV-8 manual and the very first sample (sample 1) is for
> a standard 170 lb pilot and passenger with full fuel.
> If the passenger was removed the C.G. position would be 79.93 " aft of
> the datum.
Now take out the 30 lbs of aft baggage from the example, and you get 78.66, just
forward of the
limit.
> Since you are planning to use a metal fixed prop. you will have about 30
> lbs less weight up front (25 of it right at the prop location) compared
> to the Hartzel constant speed that was on the sample airplane.
> In rough calculations I estimate that this alone would move the empty
> C.G. aft about 1.4 inches.
Wow!!! I totally underestimated the difference in weight between the props. I
hadn't been able to
find the weight of a constant speed prop yet, but I sure didn't realized it was
that much. This
will certainly force some new calculations.
> With a fixed pitch metal prop I think an aft battery would be a big
> mistake.
Based on new evidence, you are likely correct. Don't you hate always being right
:-)
> Since
> >the first 25-40 hours will have to be flown solo, I thought it was odd
> >that there were no examples
> >given without a passenger.
> >
> Just subtract the passenger weight form the total weight, and subtract
> the passenger moment from the total moment. Now divide the new weight
> into the new moment and you have the new C.G. location.
I didn't say I couldn't calculate a different scenario, I just thought it was odd
that the very
first
thing you'll need wasn't represented by example. On my previous homebuilt, the
inspector
specifically wanted to see weight and balance examples showing the worst case loading
in each
direction. Again, just thought it was odd, not a complaint.
> I think with a little calculating time on a calculator you can get a very
> good idea where your actual empty C.G. will be (as long is you can get
> some info as to different engine weights, propeller weights, weight of
> batterys, etc).
> BTW the airplane in the sample had a Concord RG-25 battery (about 23
> lbs.)
Thanks, I have the same battery for mine. I think the prop weight will make the
difference for me.
I never realized the constant speed prop was that heavy. Believe me, I want to
put the battery up
front because it will simplify the wiring. Sounds like I can do that now.
Thanks again. It's great having you on the list Scott!
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (canopy frame)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rscott(at)involved.com (Richard Scott) |
For temporary labeling go down to your hardware store & buy WHITE electrical
tape--yes, it comes in white. Can write on it with a ball point pen. Costs
a couple of bucks. If you leave it on a long time, it doesn't go to pot
like masking tape.
Dick Scott
Interstate NC37301
Subject: RV-List: Labeling Wires
I have a neat device for labeling wires and terminals. It is a 3M
ScotchCode SWD Write-On Tape Dispenser, P/N 054007 -11954 and a 3M
ScotchCode SMP Marker Pen. I paid about $22 at a local electronics supply
store.
You write on the white roughened tab with the super-fine-point pen, pull on
the end of the substrate tape, and you have left a 1 1/4 inch length of 3/4
wide tape with the written label and a length of "laminating" tape. You
wrap the piece around the wire or terminal or whatever you want neatly
identified and it looks great and works great. On ring terminals I cut the
pieces longitudinally to 3/8 wide and identify each terminal at its screw
down site by wrapping around the crimped ring terminal. On thin wires like
#20 I make a little flat flag about 1/4 by 1/2 or 3/4 and flatten it out
along the axis of the wire.
Consumer Warning: Radio Shack makes a similar product but it is junk! The
tape is not as flexible and it unravels after a few days.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
I believe it is the weekend of Oct 2
Doug Weiler, MN Wing
----- Original Message -----
From: <Elrod3794(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 8:15 PM
Subject: RV-List: fly in
>
> hay guys
> does any one know when the RV fly in at Lebanon Tennessee(m54)
> thanks
> Mike Elrod RV8a qb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <dave(at)davebarnhart.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's instructions |
Sombody wrote:
>
>Dont look too hard for instructions written by Van's guys on the type
>S cowl...if they were included, they would probably be useless like the
>rest of their manual....their picture (dwg) is truly worth a thousand
of their ...
>
>yes...that's a bit caustic...but Van's documentation is the worst I
>have ever seen in any industry...(except a few translations from Taiwan).
>
I'm BAAACK!!!! (Hi Scott).
time you finished the tail kit, you had learned how to 'figure out how to
make it work'. Since Van's started all the pre-punching and
Quick-Building, however, I've noticed that it seems that a lot of builders
have the "Insert Tab A into Slot B" mentality.
Frankly, the comment above about being the worst in the industry is WAAAY
off base. I've seen plans and manuals for a number of homebuilts, and even
the old stuff (circa 1994 when I started building) is head-and-shoulders
above the rest.
So quit whining and get back to building or you'll never finish!!!!
I can say that because my beautiful RV-6 (NX601DB) has been flying for 16
months and 103 hours now. I just returned from Van's homecoming, and I can
tell you that landing that wonderful flying machine at Sunset was one of
the funnest things I've ever done.
Best Regards,
dave barnhart
RV-6 NX601DB
SN 23744
Flying (and loving it)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 weight and balance 66-77,81,83-91 |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
>> -
>> ?????
>> I am very confused.
>> I just opened the RV-8 manual and the very first sample (sample 1)
>is for
>> a standard 170 lb pilot and passenger with full fuel.
>> If the passenger was removed the C.G. position would be 79.93 " aft
>of
>> the datum.
>
>Now take out the 30 lbs of aft baggage from the example, and you get
>78.66, just forward of the
>limit.
>
-
opps... I didn't even notice the baggage in the baggage.
Even with that removed the C.G. is only 1 " further fwd which is still
inside of the fwd limit (though just barely).
I think if you do some calculations with your lighter prop. and aft
battery though, you will find that you would still have a good midrange
C.G. for aerobatics/fun flying.
But as always, there are other variables. The example airplane had an
O-320 but you are using an O-360 which could be as much as 10 to 12 lbs
heavier (depending on the actual models being compared).
-
>> Since you are planning to use a metal fixed prop. you will have
>about 30
>> lbs less weight up front (25 of it right at the prop location)
>compared
>> to the Hartzel constant speed that was on the sample airplane.
>> In rough calculations I estimate that this alone would move the
>empty
>> C.G. aft about 1.4 inches.
>
>Wow!!! I totally underestimated the difference in weight between the
>props. I hadn't been able to
>find the weight of a constant speed prop yet, but I sure didn't
>realized it was that much. This
>will certainly force some new calculations.
-
This was done using estamates for the weights. I dont' recall the exact
weight of the Hartzel, and I have not yet heard a weight for the O-360
Sensenich.
-
>
>> With a fixed pitch metal prop I think an aft battery would be a big
>> mistake.
>
>Based on new evidence, you are likely correct. Don't you hate always
>being right :-)
-
It still may not be right for what you want, but I think you can get a
good idea with some more detailed calculations.
And No, I am not always right. I guess I have just learned when to keep
my mouth shut (most of the time anyway).
>
>> Since
>> >the first 25-40 hours will have to be flown solo, I thought it was
>odd
>> >that there were no examples
>> >given without a passenger.
>> >
>> Just subtract the passenger weight form the total weight, and
>subtract
>> the passenger moment from the total moment. Now divide the new
>weight
>> into the new moment and you have the new C.G. location.
>
>I didn't say I couldn't calculate a different scenario, I just thought
>it was odd that the very
>first
>thing you'll need wasn't represented by example. On my previous
>homebuilt, the inspector
>specifically wanted to see weight and balance examples showing the
>worst case loading in each
>direction. Again, just thought it was odd, not a complaint.
>
>> I think with a little calculating time on a calculator you can get a
>very
>> good idea where your actual empty C.G. will be (as long is you can
>get
>> some info as to different engine weights, propeller weights, weight
>of
>> batterys, etc).
>> BTW the airplane in the sample had a Concord RG-25 battery (about 23
>> lbs.)
>
>Thanks, I have the same battery for mine. I think the prop weight
>will make the difference for me.
>I never realized the constant speed prop was that heavy. Believe me,
>I want to put the battery up
>front because it will simplify the wiring. Sounds like I can do that
>now.
-
Ok, but please double check my weight "guesses". I am pretty sure that
the Hartzel (with the required gov., gov. drive adapter, and control
cable, etc.) is about 50 lbs total. I was guessing that the Sensenich
with the extension and bolts was about 20 lbs. That makes a difference
of about 30, with most of it being in the prop spinner location.
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hamilton McClymont <hammcc(at)istar.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Tedd McHenry |
try tedd(at)compuserve.com
Hammy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chriskelhand(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: -6 Type S Cowl |
writes:
>
>
>>
>>yes...that's a bit caustic...but Van's documentation is the worst I
>>have ever
>>seen in any industry...(except a few translations from Taiwan).
>>
>Hoping to hear some other opinions (please be polite !).
>
Here's mine:
My second wing is almost ready to come out of the jig and I am a first
time builder.
Yes, I have found some problems and confusion with a few things in the
construction manual and on the drawings, but these few questions have
been easily cleared up through Van's e-mail builder support or through
questions to this list.
For the most part, I think the plans and construction manual are good. I
haven't had too much trouble figuring out how things go together so far,
and yes I know I have a long ways to go!
Chris Hand
RV6A, working on wings
Seaside, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | albert poon <albertp(at)smartchat.net.au> |
| Subject: | gravel rash under horiz stabiliser |
dear listers,
I have flown my 160hp/sen rv6 for about 3 months and clocked 35hrs. All
has gone very well and I operate out of a gravel strip. The aircraft is
left unpainted and polished with rolite. The f/glass are painted silver
to match.
I found that the underside of the horizontal stab is full of gravel rash
from the prop wash on taxi,landings and takeoffs. They are only
small,but looks terrible and feels rough. Any ideas on remedy? Your
inputs are most welcome.
regards
albert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)boernenet.com> |
| Subject: | Van's Instructions |
Much of which has been posted--pro and con--is true. My plans (circa
1996) were inadequate, IMHO. But...supplemental instructions *are* out
there. Problem is, they're not in one handy place for the new builder.
I wouldn't expect Van to include Jim Cone's sliding canopy masterpiece
from Tri-State Newsletter or Will Cretsinger's truly cookbook-like notes
in the kit. Thanks to the List I was able to track down these little
gems. Now, why don't one of you computer-altruists pull it all together
in one place for one-stop downloading. And don't forget that great
firewall forward schematic from RVator. It was the issue which came out
*right after* I plumbed my engine.
Jim RV6A flying 35 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instructions/Plans Feedback (was -6 Type S Cowl) |
Hi Tim,
Glad to hear you are so far along with your Rv-6. I departed the
Vienna, VA area in July for a second try at retirement down here outside of
Charlotte NC. Yes, my 13B rotary powered Rv-6A complete the 40 hour test
period just in time for me to fly it down here.
Let me know when you get it in the air.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews NC
do not archieve
> > Hoping to hear some other opinions (please be polite !).
>
> I've essentially completed my RV-6A quickbuild (#60023, 1996
> instructions). All that's left is finishing the Imron painting. My
> background: no metal working experience prior to the RV project, little
> significant shop experience, had previously built one mediocre
> bookshelf by myself.
>
> My assessment of the instructions/plans: I give the 1996 version of
> the instructions somewhere between a B and C (assuming C is truly
> "average" and an "A" would be reserved for the top 10% of technical
> writing). There were several places where the instructions were
> somewhat sketchy, but generally they were at least adequate. In some
> places they were quite good. The most notable "not adequate"
> section was the canopy (slider) instruction section. I was quite
> disappointed with that section -- problems such as physically
> impossible directions and confused sequence of events. Luckily, the
> Tri State newsletter had an outstanding set of instructions for the
> slider canopy (I'll scan a copy for anybody who wants it). If one
> combines the stock 1996 instructions with the Tri State issues on the
> canopy you'll be in good shape. The RV list serves as a great source
> of information as well.
>
> It appears that Van's has revised the instructions since 1996. From
> what little I've seen, they've improved (and they were generally not
> bad to begin with).
>
> My thoughts for prospective builders:
> - Van's has treated me right.
> - The kit is a good kit for the money - I'm still glad I bought mine
> - Builders routinely report performance numbers equal to or exceeding
> what Van's claims (that's somewhat unusual in this business)
> - Most of the staff at Van's are knowledgeable, friendly, helpful folks
> - Van's price on components and parts is usually the best in the
> industry
>
> My advice to prospective builders:
> - Get all of Tony Bingelis' books, and read them while you are waiting
> for your kit to arrive
> - Read the instructions carefully, and read all the way thru the section
> you are on.
> - Find a tech counselor from EAA, and use him/her for advice
> - Call or email Van's for assistance, and don't be afraid to be insistent
> about speaking to someone with whom you can relate, and who you
> find trustworthy.
> - Stick with the RV-List
>
> Tim "End is in sight" Lewis
> ******
> Tim Lewis
> timrv6a(at)iname.com
> N47TD RV-6A, painting
> Springfield VA
> http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
> http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a/jpi.html - No JPI stuff in my airplane
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRoss10612(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Van's Instructions |
I have heard this so many times before from other builders. One must consider
that no two people are alike in their requirements for understanding written
instructions. I suggest that there are first time builders that would be
capable of instructions from Van's that were as simple as:
1: Learn how to read drawings & study same
2. Build empennage
3. Build wings
4. Build fuselage
5. Complete finish kit
No, I'm not trying to be funny here. Many experienced builders will confirm
that when they receive questions from other builders they are often able to
answer the question posed by simply locating the pertinent information and
pointing it out on the related drawing. It's a safe bet that Vans tech folks
do a great deal of this all day long on the telephone. I can say that the
more the drawings are studied before any metal is cut or holes drilled will
result in a greater understanding of the task at hand, resulting in fewer
builder errors.
On the other hand, there will always be the builder that needs more specific,
detailed step by step information. The manuals Van's provides are a
compromise between these two extremes. I am not suggesting that there is no
need for improvement. Van's manuals can be improved by identifying the most
common problem areas and coming up with revisions. Yes, this is done, but
never in the time frame that an individual builder expects and or requires;
but they do make improvements. That often sends builders to the RV-List or
directly to other builders. This process of revision can be improved by us
builders providing timely, concise recommendations to the factory, but many
builders simply want to move on with their projects to completion. I can't
say I blame them.
Tech support at Van's has been quite good from my point of view, and any
early RV-8 builder were confirm that there were difficulties early in the
program that were addressed well by the factory. I can say that there were
calls I made to the factory that left me feeling dissatisfied with the
information provided, however, after digging deeper I was always able to
obtain the information I was after. Try calling Cessna or Continental
regarding a tech support issue, you'll get a message tape and they will call
you back three days later after you've forgotten why you called.
Van's Aircraft web site would do well to include expanded text narratives and
photos of the most common areas where builders have difficulty. An e-mail
subscription program of service builder bulletins could be established as
well. I fully agree with the suggestion that the current revision status of
each drawing should be posted to the Van's website as well. One of the
objectives of Van's Aircraft should be to utilize the company website for the
purpose of reducing the number of builder questions, thereby reducing costs.
Flame away, but I feel that building an RV gets easier as you move along in
the project. I for one, enjoy the builder contact and mutually beneficial
trading of ideas and techniques. And I've made some good friends along the
way too.
I summary, I'll bet it's a safe bet that Van's manuals will continually
improve, but they will never reach the Britannica Encyclopedia style in depth
and scope some builders hope for.
Off the soapbox now...
Jon Ross RV-80094 finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Cylinder troubles |
I'm overhauling my IO-320 engine, and sent the cylinders to a shop here in
Tulsa. I got them back yesterday. Some cracks were welded on the heads, new
guides and seats, and honed the barrels. When I dropped them off back in
July, I stated that I wanted NEW exhaust valves, the shop owner, Larry Brown
said he'd been overhauling cylinders for 20 years and knew what needed to be
done. When I called to check on the cylinders yesterday, he said the exhaust
valves were pitted, and asked what I wanted to do with them? So, he puts new
ones in. Now, I've got the cylinders at home inspecting them, and notice that
3 of them have some pitting in the barrels, and the hone job looks like crap.
I was taught at A&P school that the hone pattern is supposed to be at a 45
degree angle, these look like the hone was removed too slow and the pattern
is more like 10 to 20 degrees. Three of them exhibit pitting in the barrels.
One of them has a lot of pitting, in a large area extending about halfway
down the barrel. If you drag your fingernail across it, it feels rough. It's
obvious that this cylinder should have been ground oversize or chromed. I'm
taking them back on monday, but this shop owner and I aren't on very good
terms. During one discussion with him earlier in the week, our verbal
confrontation nearly escalated to a physical one. I demanded my parts back,
and he refused to give them to me. What I suspect he'll say is that some
pitting is acceptable or within limits. But according to my Lycoming overhaul
manual, pitting is cause for rejection. How can the rings ever seat? Oh
yeah, he charged me $1440.00 for the repairs.
So, am I overreacting? Is it acceptable to have some pitting on overhauled
cylinders? My gut feeling is no. After reading "Engineering Manual" from
Sacremento Skyranch and my overhaul manual, I don't think these cylinders are
airworthy, even though Brown Aviation put serviceable parts tags on them. Any
suggestions?
Mark LaBoyteaux
Broken Arrow, Ok.
RV-6A N106RV
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRawls3896(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: gravel rash under horiz stabiliser |
Pave the runnway.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
No, its not what you're thinking. I am trying to give my al. sliding canopy
side skirts one more chance at aligning with the fuselage before I toss them
and start glassing. The skirts are outside the fuselage from 1/8 to 3/16
in. for the aft 2/3's of the length each side. I tried slightly bending
them inward with a homemade brake just below the lower rivet line. This
helped slightly but still at 1/8 - 3/16 in most spots. Looks like I need to
shrink the bottom of the skirts. I do not have a shrinker or english wheel.
I won't use fluting pliers because I want smooth skirts. Does anyone know
of a method to slightly shrink this with the common RV building tools we
have in our garages?
Also, for those yet to tackle the sliding canopy, pay attention. Be sure to
set the height of the front sliding frame bow before you trim the side
skirts bottom edge. I did the opposite and now the skirts are up about
3/32" above the fuselage in the front.
TIA
Rick Caldwell
RV-6 Final canopy work
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 weight and balance 66-77,81,83-91 |
> Ok, but please double check my weight "guesses". I am pretty sure that
> the Hartzel (with the required gov., gov. drive adapter, and control
> cable, etc.) is about 50 lbs total. I was guessing that the Sensenich
> with the extension and bolts was about 20 lbs. That makes a difference
> of about 30, with most of it being in the prop spinner location.
Sounds like it's time to call on the list for some weights. Does anyone know the
actual weight for
any of the following:
-Hartzel CS prop (prop weight, and other system components)
-Sensenich Aluminum prop (Brian?)
-Total weight of Christen oil system and oil
Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (canopy frame)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6BLDR <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Skirt shrinking |
Rick Caldwell wrote:
>
>
> No, its not what you're thinking. I am trying to give my al. sliding canopy
> side skirts one more chance at aligning with the fuselage before I toss them
> and start glassing. The skirts are outside the fuselage from 1/8 to 3/16
> in. for the aft 2/3's of the length each side. I tried slightly bending
> them inward with a homemade brake just below the lower rivet line. This
> helped slightly but still at 1/8 - 3/16 in most spots. Looks like I need to
> shrink the bottom of the skirts. I do not have a shrinker or english wheel.
> I won't use fluting pliers because I want smooth skirts. Does anyone know
> of a method to slightly shrink this with the common RV building tools we
> have in our garages?
>
> Also, for those yet to tackle the sliding canopy, pay attention. Be sure to
> set the height of the front sliding frame bow before you trim the side
> skirts bottom edge. I did the opposite and now the skirts are up about
> 3/32" above the fuselage in the front.
> TIA
> Rick Caldwell
> RV-6 Final canopy work
Rick,
An old metal working fella showed me a trick once. He used wide flute
pliers(NOT the narrow flute like we use) and put a slight flute in a
piece of aluminum and then took a ball peen and a dolly and lightly took
the flute out. The aluminum was shrunk and curved to fit. He was
making a windscreen fairing instead of glassing it and some of the edges
were done this way to make it fit.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RClayp5888(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Skirt shrinking |
Rick,
I found the best way to align the skirts is to weld the tabs like George O.
did on his tapes. It gives you a much stonger canopy side and allows you to
bend the tabs into the position you need so your skirt will align up exactly
with your fuselage. Of course, welding is not my thing, so I took the skirt
down to a local machine shop who did it for me .
Bob Claypool 428BC (reserved) almost flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: gravel rash under horiz stabiliser |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BSEckstein(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | Re: Skirt shrinking |
In a message dated 9/11/99 9:20:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
racaldwell(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< Subj: RV-List: Skirt shrinking
Date: 9/11/99 9:20:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: racaldwell(at)hotmail.com (Rick Caldwell)
Sender: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
Reply-to: rv-list(at)matronics.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
No, its not what you're thinking. I am trying to give my al. sliding canopy
side skirts one more chance at aligning with the fuselage before I toss them
and start glassing. The skirts are outside the fuselage from 1/8 to 3/16
in. for the aft 2/3's of the length each side. I tried slightly bending
them inward with a homemade brake just below the lower rivet line. This
helped slightly but still at 1/8 - 3/16 in most spots. Looks like I need to
shrink the bottom of the skirts. I do not have a shrinker or english wheel.
I won't use fluting pliers because I want smooth skirts. Does anyone know
of a method to slightly shrink this with the common RV building tools we
have in our garages?
Also, for those yet to tackle the sliding canopy, pay attention. Be sure to
set the height of the front sliding frame bow before you trim the side
skirts bottom edge. I did the opposite and now the skirts are up about
3/32" above the fuselage in the front.
TIA
Rick Caldwell
RV-6 Final canopy work
I had a similar problem and was able to fix it by:
1. flute the inner skirt to fit the longeron curve. may want to over-bend a
bit
2. drill a second set of holes through the side skirts and into the canopy
frame horizontal members below the center line of the members. This will
allow you to adjust the bottom of the skirt inward. Use either screws or
pop-rivets of different tension strenghts to adjust.
3. redrill the original holes for the new shape of the skirt.
you may be able to put some sort of simple weatherstrip on the bottom edge of
the skirts to take up the 3/32" gap.
Good luck
Brian Eckstein
6A finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOOREWAR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Tri-State newsletter |
I understand that there was a series of good articles on how to install a
RV-4 canopy published in the Tri-State newsletter a few years back. Does
anyone have a copy of these or know how to get them? Any advice would be
appreciated, I really, really only want to do this once!
Warren Moore
Airframe done, except canopy.
Huntington Beach, Ca.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <dave(at)davebarnhart.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Instructions |
>Flame away, but I feel that building an RV gets easier as you move along in
>the project. I for one, enjoy the builder contact and mutually beneficial
>trading of ideas and techniques. And I've made some good friends along the
>way too.
You know, I'm beginning to think that the pre-punched tail kit may not be
such a great idea. When I first saw it, I marveled at it and the reduced
build time.
I realize now, though, that one of the things the old tail kit (like mine)
taught was a set of *thinking skills* that facilitate the successful
completion of the rest of the airplane.
Best Regards,
Dave barnhart
RV-6 N601DB
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <dave(at)davebarnhart.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skirt shrinking |
>I am trying to give my al. sliding canopy
>side skirts one more chance at aligning with the fuselage before I toss them
>and start glassing.
Watch George Orndorff's Finishing Kit Video. You'l see that he welds a set
of tabd on to his canopy frame than extend donward and provide additional
support and alignment for the skirts. I did that and it worked extremely
well.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
RV-6 N601DB
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fly in - Lebanon, TN |
| From: | "Shelby Smith" <shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
Mike,
It is the Weekend of October 2nd and 3rd. It is shaping up to be a great
event. Last year was rained out, but the year before over 40 RV's attended.
Sam James is coming up from Florida for fiberglass workshop and Steve
Davis(Panel Cut) from Memphis is supposed to be showing some of his work.
There"ll be other workshops, good food, lots of Aviation Activities(warbirds
etc.) so make plans to come should be fun.
I am not a member of Chapter 863 anymore, but I am glad to help anyone with
hotel or other arrangments.
The contact for the fly-in is Sonny Ballew who can be reached at
615-449-9025 - Work
615-449-9710 - Home
If you can't get a hold of Sonny you can call or e-mail me.
615-726-3030
--
Shelby Smith
shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com
RV6A - Skinning Fuselage - 200HP
N95EB - reserved
----------
>From: Elrod3794(at)aol.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com, (at)onelist.com
>Subject: RV-List: fly in
>Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999, 7:15 PM
>
> hay guys
> does any one know when the RV fly in at Lebanon Tennessee(m54)
> thanks
> Mike Elrod RV8a qb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinder troubles |
>
> I'm overhauling my IO-320 engine, and sent the cylinders to a shop here in
>Tulsa. ...........
> Now, I've got the cylinders at home inspecting them, and notice that
>3 of them have some pitting in the barrels, and the hone job looks like crap.
>I was taught at A&P school that the hone pattern is supposed to be at a 45
>degree angle, these look like the hone was removed too slow and the pattern
>is more like 10 to 20 degrees.
My suggestion. You are an A&P, reject the cylinders. You don't even have
to be an A&P to do that tho do you.
As for the money you paid out, try threats to get it back. Small claims
etc. Sounds like he did valve work first, huh?
I spent $850 getting an auto air conditioning system fixed and a week later
it pooped out.
The guy basically says bring it back in the winter! C'est la vie!
Hal Kempthorne - SJC
RV6a at SCK - Baffling
Debonair N6134V for sale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: -6 Type S Cowl |
>
>Hoping to hear some other opinions (please be polite !).
There are probably as many ideas for improvement of the manuals & plans as
there are listers. They can be improved but I would not let it keep me
from the RV line.
To the would be builder: The plans are quite adequate and better than most.
To active builders: Be on this list and active. Do your part to help
others once you gain skill. Interact with others for joy and
knowledge. Get set up with web pages. Plan ahead.
To Vans:
1. Hire a documentation writer. Some things, such as the caption under a
photograph that reads:
"This is a picture of....." is *REALLY* amateurish. Obviously
it is a picture!
2. Get existing builders to create chapters and assemble them with a good
index. Much is done already.
3. Put more engineering change notices, alerts & cautions etc on your web
page.
4. Keep up the superb customer support.
5. Give Scott McDaniels another airplane!
Hal Kempthorne - SJC
RV6a at SCK - Baffling
Debonair N6134V for sale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Instructions |
Like everyone else, I get messages all the time from people that are thinking of
building an RV.
One of the biggest questions they always have is "How are the instructions?".
My answer is usually
something along the lines of- The plans are great, but the manual could be better.
Someone called
it "adequate", and that's a perfect description since the manual provides no more
or less info than
what you actually need to build the plane.
My specific gripes would be that the manual isn't always clear about what you can
rivet now, and
what you have to wait to rivet. I find myself scanning through the rest of the
manual to find out
if there is something else that needs to be done with the part in question later.
Why can't we get
the manual in an electronic format, and how about the inventory of the bag contents?
It would be so
easy to search for instructions relating to the F-123 thingy, or to find the elusive
AN-123-BS-86M
fastener. The most current version of the manual should be on the web page. Plan
updates (as
mentioned by someone else) should be on the web page. It's not that the manual
is so bad, it's just
frustrating to know that it could be so much better. Imagine an html version of
the manual on
CD-ROM. Click on a step and get actual video of the assembly. I bet a lot of
computers would find
there way into shops :-)
Can the manual be improved? Absolutely. Is it worth the time to improve it? Well,
that depends on
whether Van's wants to sell kits to builders who are afraid they can't finish the
project. I'm 100%
sure that Van's loses potential orders because the manual isn't up to the quality
of the plans or
the kit (which are both superb). Let's face it, even with a quickbuild kit, building
an RV is a big
project to most people. Sure there's good help available, but a first class manual,
and factory
videos could almost make tech support obsolete. It's up to Van to decide if it's
worth the effort,
and so far, I guess it isn't.
I think I've used up my 2 cents worth of space.
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (canopy frame and battery decisions)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 weight and balance 66-77,81,83-91 |
>Sounds like it's time to call on the list for some weights. Does anyone
>know the actual weight for
>any of the following:
>
>-Hartzel CS prop (prop weight, and other system components)
>-Sensenich Aluminum prop (Brian?)
>-Total weight of Christen oil system and oil
>
>Any info would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Russell Duffy
>Navarre, FL
>RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (canopy frame)
Rusty,
Well, the prop spacer and bolt kit is here..but the prop isn't! I think
Scott's estimate of 20 pounds will be mighty close or at least close enough
for preliminary W/B calculations.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
seats done and WOW! they're nice. :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRawls3896(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Instructions/Plans Feedback (was -6 Type S Cowl) |
Since everyone has an opinion, I guess I got mine. Here it is: I build a
Turner T-40 from plans only. Had to make every part and plan how it went
together. This is an all wood aircraft that had to have many exotic jigs. My
project now is a 6-A. Every piece is pre bent and pre drilled with a very
informative instruction manual. Yes, there are times you will have to stop
and think for yourself, call on a friend or do some research. If it where
that easy, then everybody would have an RV. And most builders do. Building
aircraft is not something that you do in a couple of weekends and then go
fly. Most people build for the sheer fun of building, and when there through,
they sell and start another (Tony Bengalis).
So have patients and before long it will all seem quite easy and you will
be the next expert on building RV's.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
I got my instructions and the tail kit for the RV-6A back in (around) 1991.
Overall the instructions did the job, but like any document it can be
improved, and since I got mine I am sure that sections have been rewritten
several times.
The few things I did notice was a tendency to more or less say, "Do A."
Then "Do B." Much later to say, "Oh, but be sure to do 'C' first." I
learned to read way ahead of where the work has progressed to and that
handled that minor irritation.
Some of the more difficult steps were too lightly gone over, and a few times
it more or less said "Do It." Yet Van used several pages arguing with
himself about props.
Dimensional errors, however, were another thing. I think I found almost 100,
yes, one hundred mechanical errors either in designations or dimensions. My
plans have writting all over them with corrections.
Also the plans were scattered, the result of changes, corrections, updates,
etc. I studied the plans for almost 6-months before I ordered the tail kit,
so I had a fairly good handle on where things were. Even then, I had an
index on the plans table so I could find things more quickly. This probably
has been corrected long ago however. Being fairly organized helped
everything.
I got the job done as an amateur and am happy with the plane.
RV-6A Flying
Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tri-State newsletter |
Warren, I believe you are referring to Jim Cone's two articles about
installing a sliding canopy for the RV-6. Randall Henderson posted recently
that he would scan this and e-mail it.
Rick Caldwell
>From: MOOREWAR(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Tri-State newsletter
>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:30:52 EDT
>
>
>I understand that there was a series of good articles on how to install a
>RV-4 canopy published in the Tri-State newsletter a few years back. Does
>anyone have a copy of these or know how to get them? Any advice would be
>appreciated, I really, really only want to do this once!
>
>Warren Moore
>Airframe done, except canopy.
>Huntington Beach, Ca.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hoverdude8(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tri-State newsletter |
Hi, I don't mind all the mail but if you could take me off your mailing list
I would appreciate that.
Thanks, Andrew Bradford
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Can you tell me the difference between RG142 and RG400
>cable except that one has solid center conductor and the
>other stranded. Their electrical performance seems to
>be the same, and their physical dimensions also seem
>equivalent but I was wondering if the RG400 might be
>more flexible and have a smaller bend radius. That
>might be an advantage when threading through the
>airframe, but it might have other disadvatages! Since
>both cables are fairly pricy, I don't want to buy the
>wrong cable!
>
>Thanks again for you helpful advice,
>
>Will Chorley
>
>PS. Do you sell the fiberglass isulation material for
>fuseable link construction, it doesn't seem to be listed
>on your Web pages?
Why use either of these cables? The good ol' RG-58
has been used with great success for about a half
century. The reason the BIG guys (al la 747, DC-10
etc) use this kind of cable is that their coax runs
can be quite long . . sometimes. In a single engine
a/c the longest run is generally to a VOR antenna
on tail (perhaps 20'). Losses in RG-58 at 110 MHz
are about 1.2 dB per 100' (3db is loss of 1/2
the power). A 10' chunk of RG-58 looses .12 dB
and a 20' chunk is .24 dB . . . not worth
worrying about.
Transponders at 1000 mHz will loose 18-22 dB
per 100 feet or 2.2 dB for 10' and 1.1 dB for
5 foot. Here, it's obviously more critical but
even when you go to a twice diameter, lower
loss coax like RG-8 or RG-214, the looses only
go down by about half.
The modern RG cables like 400 and 142 are still
small diameter cables and have losses comparable
to RG-58. They ARE made from Teflons, et. als.
which increases their resistance to temperature
effects but give the very long history of RG-58
and RG-8 in airplanes, I'd suggest that the time
and effort to upgrade your small airplane's coax
cables isn't going to produce any perceivable
value in return.
Another thing to consider for bigger cables are
connectors. The larger (.35 to .4" diameter) cables
take special connectors. I've seen a number of
installations where a builder used straight
coax connectors on his fat coax than added
right angle adapters at each end for installation.
The losses in the adapters may have increased
his total system losses by as much as he saved
by not using smaller RG-58 with the proper
right angle connectors.
Bottom line is that much is said and recommended
with respect to "modernizing" one's anteanna
feedlines in amateur built airplanes. My recommendation
is to save the time and dollars for things that
will make a difference.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRobert569(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: -6 Type S Cowl |
Scott,
Being in the middle of two projects at the same time, a Jurca MJ-77 (P-51)
which is plans only and an RV-8AQB, and having a A&P I can appreciate where
you are coming from. But I will say this. The instructions for the empenage
are great. But, especially for the first time builder, the rest of the
instructions could be a bit more detailed. As far as the quick build kit the
instructions are bad. Some parts of some steps are already done and other
parts aren't. The instructions included witht he kit are the exact same ones
as the regular "slow" build kit. It took me a couple of days of looking
though the manual to figure out where things were. For the first time
builder who orders the QB this would be staggering and it is definately not
up to the standards I have seen with everything else on the Van's kits.
Don't get me wrong. I thing that Van's kit are overall the best I have seen
in quality and I am very impressed with the quality of the worksmanship I
have seen on the 8A Quick Build kit that I am working on.
Before you say it, I would love to help rewrite those parts of the manual
that I think need better clarification but between my regular job and my work
on the 8A, which we hope to have flying by Xmas, I don't have any time.
Maybe when its all over I will organize my notes and submit a copy.
Mike Robertson
RV-8AQB N809RS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator/Battery issues . . . |
>OK, A&P's and EE's, jump in here and correct my thinking. This could be the
>case if you were talking about a car, but I'm not 100% sure about alt's in
>aircraft. Automobile alt's have diodes in them, that when they go bad will
>allow a battery to completely discharge back through the alternator.
When the diodes in an alternator go "bad" they either open
(do nothing) or short (lots of smoke) . . . actually, you
have to fail a minimum of two of the six to eight diodes
in an alternator to effect the reverse feed of energy from
battery back into alternator and it will not be any whimpy
current flow . . . we're talking HUNDREDS of amps.
This is why your b-lead on the alternator has a circuit breaker
or fuse in it . . .
>. . . . . When
>this happens, depending on how long the battery as sat (or discharged), you
>may never get it to come back to life with just a battery charger.
First, alternator diode failure is a VERY rare event. This is one
of the reasons why I've recommended firewall mounted fuses in
the alternator b-lead for homebuilts . . . if the fuse is properly
sized to eliminate nuisance trips, then most likely it will
NEVER trip for the lifetime of the airplane.
> . . . To keep
>things simple, think of batteries as having a "memory". When they lose it,
>through complete discharge, they don't know which side is positive and which
>is negative (and can't be recharged until pos and neg are established). One
>way to overcome this (sometimes) is by simply hooking another battery to the
>dead one, to reestablish neg and pos sides. Once this is done, the battery
>"may" be able to be fully charged with a charger. Alternators can also be
>checked to see if the diodes are bad. Again, whether or not this applies to
>aircraft type or not...I don't know.
The MEMORY effect alluded to was first improperly applied to liquid
Ni-Cads used mostly in BIG airplanes. I could cite about a half
dozen articles that appeared in various electronics journals over
the past 15 years debunking the memory theory but suffice it to say
here that "memory" doesn't happen in other batteries . . . and
especially in lead acid ones.
Lead acid batteries have a shelf life . . . meaning that once a battery
has acquired a certain age, it's capacity has degraded to a non-useful
level. The RATE at which a battery degrades to useless is a function
of state of charge and where in the life cycle the battery presently
resides. For example, a 3 year old battery that's down to
40% of capacity already may loose half of that by sitting in
a totally dischaged for a week and become NON-recoverable. While
a brand new battery can take that 20% whack and still appear to have
"recovered" . . . .
It's true that a totally discharged battery can be charged up reversed
with some apparent capacity of a reverse polarity but it doesn't
take another battery to properly "polarize" a totally discharged
battery . . . just hook your charger to it in the normal manner
and say a few kind words over it, . . and hope you get back some
utility for having done so.
If you have bad diodes in an alternator that are at risk of
discharging the battery, you're going to know it in a hurry.
If you have open diodes, you may NOT know it. I bought a used
car a few years back with a crippled alternator. The car seemed
to have a pretty noisy bus and I filtered the +14V lead going
into my ham rig to control the noise. It wasn't until I got
the a/c fixed and had the blower running on HI along with
headlights at night that I discovered the alternator's output
was insufficient to keep the battery charged. I must have driven
the car six months or more with a funky alternator.
If you have a 60 amp alternator and fly only day/vfr, you might
fly for years with a half dead alternator and not know it.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRobert569(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinder troubles |
Mark,
You are absolutely right. Go by the overhaul manual, cause that's what the
repair station is supposed to be doing. If you think that the cylinders are
not airworthy, and you being an A&P should know, then you have but three
choices. The first choice is to take them back and try to get them the way
you want. After all you are the one paying for the overhaul. The second
choice is to get another overhaul shop to look at them and get their opinion
in writing. This would then refer back to choice one. The third choice, and
one that you may want to do anyway, is to contact the FAA Flight Standards
folks. The reason I say that you may want to do this anyway is because if
they are giving yooou, an A&P a bum product, then what are they doing to
everybody else. If they are a certificated Repair Station then they have an
agreement with the FAA to use the Approved Overhaul Manual from the
manufacturer of the engine. If they work they are doing is not up to the
standard thenm they are violating the FARs.
I would always recommend choice one first, but if they are that bad then you
have to think of your safety and the safety of others in the air. Although
we know this is not true in this case but what if this shop had been the ones
who overhauled Alexander's engine and that led to the engine catching fire.
I am not trying to bring up that issue again other than to point out where it
could lead if there is someone not doing work up to the standard required.
If you have any other questions please feel free to contact me offline and I
will give you what help I can.
Mike Robertson
"Das Fed"
RV-8A QB N809RS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JHeadric(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinder troubles |
You might consider taking the cylinders to a reputable shop and pay them to
inspect them and yellow tag them - or not - if they are acceptable.
\
Jim Headrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com> |
| Subject: | Cylinder troubles |
Take the cylinders to your local FSDO with a well documented history of
events. Show them your results of the repair station's yellow tags and ask
the inspector if they are airworthy or not. My guess is he/she may want to
have a chat with Brown Aviation.
Differences in opinions are just that, workmanship speaks for itself.
Rob Reece
RV-3 SN45
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: oil cooler & wood prop for 220hp 6A |
>Now that I can spend more time at the higher speed ranges I find the
>Aymar-Demuth 68/81 prop is under-pitched. I can exceed 2700 at any
>altitude and although I haven't pulled beyond 2750 I don't think I want
>to find out where it stops gaining rpm. (The thread on catastrophic
>engine failures in the 2800-2900 rpm range made a strong impression on me
Paul,
My 180 HP RV-4 will max out at 200+mph at sea level. The Aymar Demuth 68 x
78 gives me a wonderful climb ( 2000 - 2,200+ ft/min.) solo. The prop has a
slight tendency to want to over-speed (cavitate) until the airspeed catches
up to the prop's torque output.
At Oshkosh last month, I found that my prop was developing a serious crack
(Not an Aymar/Demuth problem) and I needed a new prop to get home. A/D
shipped me a loaner prop immediately and I received it at 'Kosh the next
morning. When I got home, I had to go through the decisions of purchasing a
new prop. I called several prop manufacturers, and got lots of sales
pitches(pardon the pun). The Warneke and Prince may be better, but in the
end I realized that I was very happy with the Aymar Demuth prop. The crack
probably developed because of serious moisture problems in my hangar and
poor care on my part. I called Don at A/D and we discussed a pitch change
for a new prop. A/D had nothing to loose or gain from my choice, so I
listened well. Don asked me how I liked the old prop, and I replied that I
would not have changed it if I didn't need a new prop. We discussed the
expected results of just a small change in pitch - such as 68 x 79. When
all of a sudden I realized that the increase in top speed was so close to
the redline speed that I was only asking for trouble. What I like best
about the 180 HP Lyc is that it climbs so well. How often do we ever really
need to go at 200 + MPH?
On my trip from Philadelphia to Oshkosh, I would have saved maybe a half
hour if I went a top speed. What made the trip back home so very pleasing
and possible was the ability to climb quickly when needed to avoid the
11,000 cloud tops and then descend if the tops increased and fly down at
5,500 feet and then climb again if needed. I did this 5 or 6 times during
the trip. I was able to find the best tailwind when possible, descend when
necessary to stay in Oxygen, and then climb again. I'll take climb over top
speed any day of the week.
If you had a C/S prop, your problem would be solved (at a huge price), but
then you would have another problem. How do you fly an aircraft at 220 mph
when the redline speed is 210 - 215 mph? All of the above are my thoughts
and experiences with my HP/prop combo. It certainly is not the Gospel, and
some of it may not apply to your situation, but I hope it provides some
info for you.
Louis
Louis I. Willig, RV-4 - N8ZZ
larywil(at)home.com
(610) 668-4964
Philadelphia, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | 8 Wings ribs vs skins |
I'm skinning my wings. The inboard prepunched skins, top and bottom, lined
up really well with the ribs. The outboard skins however, required that I
apply moderate pressure to the ribs, always in the outboard direction, to
see my rib centerlines through the holes. It seems odd that this is the
case on the outboard skins, top and bottom, both wings; while the inboard
ends are fine. Is this a known 'feature'? Or did I screw up somewhere?
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 8 Wings ribs vs skins |
| From: | Carl Froehlich <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
Larry,
Not a problem. The ribs tend to flex somewhat. Line them up
straight and drill. If they are way out you may want to make sure you
flutted them enough.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (fuselage)
Vienna, VA
>Subject: RV-List: 8 Wings ribs vs skins
>Sent: 9/9/19 11:13 PM
>Received: 9/11/99 6:36 PM
>From: Larry Bowen, Larry(at)BowenAero.com
>Reply-To: RV List, rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: RV List, rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>I'm skinning my wings. The inboard prepunched skins, top and bottom, lined
>up really well with the ribs. The outboard skins however, required that I
>apply moderate pressure to the ribs, always in the outboard direction, to
>see my rib centerlines through the holes. It seems odd that this is the
>case on the outboard skins, top and bottom, both wings; while the inboard
>ends are fine. Is this a known 'feature'? Or did I screw up somewhere?
>
>
>Larry Bowen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: -6 Type S Cowl |
MRobert569(at)aol.com wrote:
> The instructions for the empenage
> are great. But, especially for the first time builder, the rest of the
> instructions could be a bit more detailed.
As a first-time builder, I've got to agree. I suspect that without this
list and the various on-line instructions (Frank Justice, Will
Cretsinger) and other RV building sites, I'd have given up long ago.
Probably I wouldn't even have started. My own "A Bunny's Guide to RV
Building" <http://members.xoom.com/frankv/bunny.htm> is an attempt to
pay back that debt to the Net RV community.
I've found the Orndorff video tapes to be indispensible too.
I think the fact that there *are* supplementary instructions and videos
indicates very clearly that the manual is iniadequate for many builders.
An earlier message asked how much having a well-written manual would add
to the cost of a kit. My guess: Very little. Sure, it'll cost a few
thousand to put together. But a good, clear manual is a *big* plus when
selecting a kit to build. I think Vans would sell a whole lot more kits
if their manuals were better.
> Before you say it, I would love to help rewrite those parts of the manual
> that I think need better clarification but between my regular job and my work
> on the 8A, which we hope to have flying by Xmas, I don't have any time.
Me too. (Well, I won't be flying by Xmas, but that just means I need
*more* time for the project!)
> Maybe when its all over I will organize my notes and submit a copy.
Publish them on the Web as you go. Share them.
Frank.
RV-6 -- installing fuselage floors
Marton, New Zealand.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
Fellow Listers:
I know this may be premature since nothing as been officially published, but
has anyone heard anything more definitive on Von Alexander's accident? I
ask this as the risk of stirring up more speculation, but if anyone has any
reasonably reliable information, perhaps we may all benefit.
Thanks,
Doug
===========
Doug Weiler, pres MN Wing
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 weight and balance 66-77,81,83-91 |
| From: | b green <rvinfo(at)juno.com> |
The 76" Sensenich prop used on a Pitts weighs 37.5 lbs according t the
factory flight manual, so I would say 20 lbs is a bit optimistic.
Bruce Green
RV-8 plans
writes:
>
>
> >Sounds like it's time to call on the list for some weights. Does
> anyone
> >know the actual weight for
> >any of the following:
> >
> >-Hartzel CS prop (prop weight, and other system components)
> >-Sensenich Aluminum prop (Brian?)
> >-Total weight of Christen oil system and oil
> >
> >Any info would be appreciated.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Russell Duffy
> >Navarre, FL
> >RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (canopy frame)
>
> Rusty,
>
> Well, the prop spacer and bolt kit is here..but the prop isn't! I
> think
> Scott's estimate of 20 pounds will be mighty close or at least close
> enough
> for preliminary W/B calculations.
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
> seats done and WOW! they're nice. :)
>
>
>
>
>
--
>
>
--
>
>
--
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: -6 Type S Cowl |
>
>An earlier message asked how much having a well-written manual would add
>to the cost of a kit. My guess: Very little. Sure, it'll cost a few
>thousand to put together. But a good, clear manual is a *big* plus when
>selecting a kit to build. I think Vans would sell a whole lot more kits
>if their manuals were better.
Actually, Van might save enough money from fewer man hours spent on
providing tech support to make up for the costs of redoing the
manuals.
Kevin
Kevin Horton RV-8 (LH fuel tank & RH wing skins)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/nojpi.html - No JPI stuff in my aircraft!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 8 Wings ribs vs skins |
>
>
>I'm skinning my wings. The inboard prepunched skins, top and bottom, lined
>up really well with the ribs. The outboard skins however, required that I
>apply moderate pressure to the ribs, always in the outboard direction, to
>see my rib centerlines through the holes. It seems odd that this is the
>case on the outboard skins, top and bottom, both wings; while the inboard
>ends are fine. Is this a known 'feature'? Or did I screw up somewhere?
>
>
>Larry Bowen
Larry,
A couple of things to check:
1. Are all the ribs fluted sufficiently and straight?
2. Remember, the outboard skins overlap the inboard skins and share TWO
lines of rivets, not just one.
I can't think of anything else that would cause such a problem.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
canopy skirt then off to the airport.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 weight and balance 66-77,81,83-91 |
> > >Sounds like it's time to call on the list for some weights. Does
>> anyone
>> >know the actual weight for
>> >any of the following:
>> >
>> >-Hartzel CS prop (prop weight, and other system components)
>> >-Sensenich Aluminum prop (Brian?)
>> >-Total weight of Christen oil system and oil
>> >
>> >Any info would be appreciated.
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >
>
> > >Russell Duffy
Sensenich's web page gives weights of 40 lb, and 43.5 lb depending on
the type of cowling. I'm not sure I understand the difference,
unless these weights include the extension. See
http://www.sensenich.com/direct/vans.htm
Kevin Horton RV-8 (LH fuel tank & RH wing skins)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/nojpi.html - No JPI stuff in my aircraft!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 weight and balance 66-77,81,83-91 |
> The 76" Sensenich prop used on a Pitts weighs 37.5 lbs according t the
> factory flight manual, so I would say 20 lbs is a bit optimistic.
>
> Bruce Green
> RV-8 plans
You're right Bruce. Silly me, I never thought to look at the Sensenich page for
weight info.
According to their chart at: http://www.sensenich.com/direct/vans.htm the O-360 prop weights 40
lbs. Maybe it was 20 lbs per blade- glad it only has two :-) The CG plot thickens....
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (getting that canopy saw ready while it's still Summer)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-6 Sliding Canopy Skirts |
| From: | "Robert J. Hall" <robjhall(at)juno.com> |
There is a way to get a good fit of the canopy skirts without using
George Orndorf's method of welding tabs on the canopy frame. I
shamelessly stole the idea from John Stewart of Burlington, Colorado and
his award winning RV-6A. It has worked well for me and was not
technically difficult.
The method involves using a 1/4" thick sheet of UHMW plastic fastened to
the canopy rail outboard of the roller track. The plastic is trimmed to
follow the curve of the fuselage from the windscreen back to the
hold-down block. It is trimmed undersized by the thickness of the canopy
skirt skin. Drilling the skirts with a VERY slight inboard slant will
cause them slide along the side of the plastic while maintaining a slight
pressure against it. It makes a flush fit with the fuselage skin and
does not make the canopy difficult to operate. I can open an close mine
with one hand.
To hold the plastic in place, I tapped into the top of the longerons and
used #6 screws. The plastic I got from the scrap bin of a local plastics
company free of charge. While I glued two 1/8" pieces together to get
the thickness I needed, one solid piece would be better. Your required
thickness may vary.
Again, it works well for me thanks to John Stewart.
Off subject, I just passed the 100-hour mark this morning on the way to
breakfast in Lamar, Colorado in a flight of 5 RV's. The sun was not far
above the horizon, the air was cool and ultra-smooth. How can it get any
better than that.
Bob Hall,
RV-6, Colorado Springs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
Rick,
I did the following instead of tabs:
For each side skirt I cut a piece of .025 aluminum aproximately
2" X 23" and put a 35 degree break in opposite directions at the top and
bottom of the strip. The breaks are 3/8" from the top and bottom edges
and form a flange at the top and bottom on opposite sides of the strip.
I then drilled the top flange to the inside of the horizontal tube of
the frame. Then when I drilled the the bottom row of holes in the side
skirt, I drilled from the inside through this strip and the two side
skirt pieces. Holding a block on the outside insures the the side
skirts will align with the fuselage sides. The result is an absolutely
rigid side skirt that fits the fuselage perfectly. It looks good, too.
I cut two or three vertical slots about 1 1/2" from the bottom of the
strips to allow them to conform to the curve in the side skirts.
>
> No, its not what you're thinking. I am trying to give my al. sliding
> canopy
> side skirts one more chance at aligning with the fuselage before I
> toss them
> and start glassing. The skirts are outside the fuselage from 1/8 to
> 3/16
> in. for the aft 2/3's of the length each side. I tried slightly
> bending
> them inward with a homemade brake just below the lower rivet line.
> This
> helped slightly but still at 1/8 - 3/16 in most spots. Looks like I
> need to
> shrink the bottom of the skirts. I do not have a shrinker or english
> wheel.
> I won't use fluting pliers because I want smooth skirts. Does
> anyone know
> of a method to slightly shrink this with the common RV building tools
> we
> have in our garages?
>
> Also, for those yet to tackle the sliding canopy, pay attention. Be
> sure to
> set the height of the front sliding frame bow before you trim the side
>
> skirts bottom edge. I did the opposite and now the skirts are up
> about
> 3/32" above the fuselage in the front.
> TIA
> Rick Caldwell
> RV-6 Final canopy work
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> |
>
> Rick,
> I did the following instead of tabs:
> For each side skirt I cut a piece of .025 aluminum aproximately
>2" X 23" and put a 35 degree break in opposite directions at the top and
>bottom of the strip.
Cool.
I did something different still but sounds like about the same
principal. I made 4 or 5 little aluminum tabs about 1 by 3 inches and
popped them to the canopy frame side rail on the inner side. The other end
of the tab attaches to the skirt so that it is at about a 45 degree angle
with the vertical. I can bend them to adjust the fit.
I won't know how well they work till I figure out how the throttle and
mixture cables attach to Van's bracket and the carb.
Hal Kempthorne - SJC
RV6a at SCK - Baffling
Debonair N6134V for sale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip A Lehrke" <plehrke(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Instructions |
>
>Can the manual be improved? Absolutely. Is it worth the time to improve
it? Well, that depends on
>whether Van's wants to sell kits to builders who are afraid they can't
finish the project. .......Sure there's good help available, but a first
class manual, and factory
>videos could almost make tech support obsolete. It's up to Van to decide
if it's worth the effort,
>and so far, I guess it isn't.
>
>I think I've used up my 2 cents worth of space.
>
>Russell Duffy
>Navarre, FL
>RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (canopy frame and battery decisions)
>
>
Just to get my 2 cents in
If you what to have a manual that tells you to "put slot A into slot B" then
go buy lawn furniture and assemble that or pay $100K for a Lancair Kit.
To be able to register in the Experimental - Homebuilt category you need to
show you learned how to build an airplane not just assemble an airplane from
parts. If you find the instructions too complicated then maybe you ought
not be building an airplane and go buy a finished product. Remember we are
manufacturing airplanes and not assembling a kid's bike and therefore you
should have some comprehension of how to read a drawing, follow minimal
instructions, and be able to handle power tools.
This maybe harsh but not everybody is qualified to build and maybe not
everybody should be building. Finally, it can not be that difficult to
build form the Van's instructions after all over 2000 people have already
successfully done so.
Phil lehrke
RV-6A
Canopy frame
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
> hay guys
> does any one know when the RV fly in at Lebanon Tennessee(m54)
> thanks
> Mike Elrod RV8a qb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GLPalinkas(at)aol.com |
Cost of parking at MERFI ($7 for plane + $7 for passenger)
Jim...Glad you mentioned this. I was thinking of just dropping in tomorrow
morning with my daughter. I think I will use the $14 for a couple of hours of
flight time somewhere else (taylorcraft @ 4.4 gal/hr) Or maybe I will just go
out in the garage where I belong and work on the -6.
Gary Palinkas
Parma, Ohio
QB6 (control system)
________________________________________________________________________________
You think it is bad at a flyin try stock car racing where you pay to race and
the promoter pockets all the cash. At least with an airplane there are a lot
more places to go. I find the smaller flyins more fun and the people are
really glad to see you.
Bill BRUTON
RV-8QB empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | New, RV Model-Specific Email Lists At Matronics! |
rv8-list(at)matronics.com
Dear RV Listers,
A couple of weeks ago I received a request from a fellow (I accidently deleted
his email message - please write me again) who had been running an RV-3 email
list and was wondering if I would be interested in taking it over for him. It
seemed like a good idea and I thought that I would go ahead and create not only
the RV3-specific list, but also one for the RV4, RV6, and RV8 models as well.
Well, you can imagine my surprise when Joe Colontonio announced his new RV-8
email list this week! Anyway, I'm definitely not trying to 'one-up' Joe, but
I wanted to added the model-specific lists to the current RV-List here at
Matronics. The new Lists (RV3-List, RV4-List, RV6-List, and RV8-List) each
have their own digest mode, as well as the traditional Archive Search Engine
access and Archive Browsing capability via the web interface.
Please note that the current RV-List general List still exists and will
continue to co-exist with these new model-specific Lists. I would encourage
everyone to only use the specific Lists for discussions that severely only
relate to the model in question.
You may subscribe to any of the new model-specific Lists at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Instructions |
Listers,
For the last few months, I've been lurking instead of giving my
opinions and help on the list. Why? Because of flaming. I got sick
and tired of it and decided it wasn't worth it, anymore. I do a lot of
deleting before reading, these days. Well, I've read some of the
answers to this question and I'd like to give an opinion, now that my
own RV-6A is finally nearing its completion. I'll take a chance on
flaming, even though there are some out there on the list who still
don't understand that not all of us builders can walk on water, yet.
Maybe the RV isn't for everyone. Maybe a person should have some
mechanical skills to be able to build one. However, how does
someone learn those skills if he/she has never been given the
chance to do so? My own opinion is that nobody should be told they
can't build the RV just because they're skill lacking. This is to be a
learning experience for anyone who wants to tackle it. I can assure
you that I had to learn a heck of a lot to be able to build mine.
Let's face it. The instructions for the RV-6/6A suck. The old ones
were bad; but, the newer ones are not any better. They cleaned
them up a bit; but, they also left things out that they didn't think we
needed or just left them out by mistake. Things are out of order and
can cause major problems if not caught in time. Personally, I'd much
they'd have not touched the originals if all they were going to do was
pretty them up. I'd much rather they had things in order. When I was
a programmer for IBM, one could easily tell the difference of helpful
comments in software that was put in during the writing of the
software and that which had been added after the software was
written. The latter was usually less than desirable because it was
done in a hurry up fashion. Van's instructions are the hurry up kind,
just done to satisfy those of us who can use a little help.
Thank goodness Van's has a team of technical assistants manning
the phones. If some time had been spent on the manuals, a lot less
of the technical assistance would have been needed. If it hadn't
been for the RV-list, I'm sure Van would have had to have more folks
on the line. This list has taken a lot of pressure off his business. He
should be very grateful. I know I am because my manual is full of
notes I've swiped off this list. It's saved this builder a fortune in long
distance calls to Van's. Why? The manual was lacking.
Fortunately, I can read plans fairly well and didn't have to rely on the
manual as much as some. However, even the copies of plans have
become so bad that one can barely read some parts of it. Having
started my project in 1992, I was lucky to have been one of those
who got a complete set when my project started. If not, I would have
had a terrible time with the newer ones. I don't think it's right that I'd
have to buy a review set just to see what should really show up on
the large copies. Can you imagine what it must be like for someone
who is on a severe learning curve?
Speaking of severe learning curves. What about the canopy? Boy,
there sure wasn't much in the manual on that! Here I am in the
middle of nowhere with no other builders around. How do I tackle
that with very few instructions and no expertise? Thank goodness, I
had the experiences of the RV-list to fall on and got through it just
fine. I couldn't have done it very well by using the manual. It
wouldn't have cost that much time or paper to add enough detail to
get each of us through the one place we can screw up a lot of
money in a heartbeat.
I won't get into the kits and the quality there. Granted, a lot sure has
been done to the kits to improve them; but, quality control still needs
improving. The more that can be done up front to improve quality,
the more kits will be sold with less need to return items and less need
to call someone. The manuals would be a good starting point.
The big question. Would I build another? Maybe. It would have to
be one of the newer kits, though. The quality of the kits is much
better than the one I had to work with. I'm not sure about the
instructions; but, I'm not as worried about that now. I can almost
walk on water and may not need them as badly. :-)
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Should fly later this year)
AA-5A N26278
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | RV builders in Sao Jose dos Campos? |
RV-Listers,
I am probably going to be in Sao Jose dos Campos, Brazil for two
weeks, and would be interested in meeting any local RV builders. If
I come, I will arrive on Saturday, 25 September, and leave on Friday,
8 October. I will be busy during the week, but should have some free
time on the weekends. I probably won't have a car.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (LH fuel tank & RH wing skins)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/nojpi.html - No JPI stuff in my aircraft!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinder troubles |
The local FAA Office might be interested if they are not airworthy and
he passed them with yellow tags. Maybe you could recover monies through
small claims court if the FAA declared them not airworthy. We had a
situation in a nearby city several years ago where the FAA was looking
for pilots that had done business with a shop that had used questionable
parts. Don't know if they got the evidence they were seeking or knot.
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> I'm overhauling my IO-320 engine, and sent the cylinders to a shop here in
> Tulsa. I got them back yesterday. Some cracks were welded on the heads, new
> guides and seats, and honed the barrels. When I dropped them off back in
> July, I stated that I wanted NEW exhaust valves, the shop owner, Larry Brown
> said he'd been overhauling cylinders for 20 years and knew what needed to be
> done. When I called to check on the cylinders yesterday, he said the exhaust
> valves were pitted, and asked what I wanted to do with them? So, he puts new
> ones in. Now, I've got the cylinders at home inspecting them, and notice that
> 3 of them have some pitting in the barrels, and the hone job looks like crap.
> I was taught at A&P school that the hone pattern is supposed to be at a 45
> degree angle, these look like the hone was removed too slow and the pattern
> is more like 10 to 20 degrees. Three of them exhibit pitting in the barrels.
> One of them has a lot of pitting, in a large area extending about halfway
> down the barrel. If you drag your fingernail across it, it feels rough. It's
> obvious that this cylinder should have been ground oversize or chromed. I'm
> taking them back on monday, but this shop owner and I aren't on very good
> terms. During one discussion with him earlier in the week, our verbal
> confrontation nearly escalated to a physical one. I demanded my parts back,
> and he refused to give them to me. What I suspect he'll say is that some
> pitting is acceptable or within limits. But according to my Lycoming overhaul
> manual, pitting is cause for rejection. How can the rings ever seat? Oh
> yeah, he charged me $1440.00 for the repairs.
> So, am I overreacting? Is it acceptable to have some pitting on overhauled
> cylinders? My gut feeling is no. After reading "Engineering Manual" from
> Sacremento Skyranch and my overhaul manual, I don't think these cylinders are
> airworthy, even though Brown Aviation put serviceable parts tags on them. Any
> suggestions?
>
> Mark LaBoyteaux
> Broken Arrow, Ok.
> RV-6A N106RV
> MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
jwlawson(at)hargray.com
| Subject: | RV-6A Slider Canopy Instructions (Supplemental) |
Listers,
Several folks on the list asked for copies of Jim Cone's excellent RV-6A
slider canopy instructions. I've scanned the relevant pages and posted
them to my web site, http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a .
Let me know if you have any problems viewing the pages. I don't
have an Adobe encoder, so I posted each page as a .jpg file.
Tim
******
Tim Lewis
timrv6a(at)iname.com
N47TD RV-6A, painting
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a/jpi.html - No JPI stuff in my airplane
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PILOT8127(at)aol.com |
Hey Jim,
That's why I didn't go! Last time I went I HAD TO PAY!! BOO on that!
Had a great time at Rough River. Lotsa planes (RVs) food etc. later-
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRoss10612(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinder troubles |
<
No, you are not overreacting, The repair station sunk themselves by providing
serviceable tags. Obtain the cylinder inspection criteria from Lycoming, get
your receipt ready, go see the owner of the shop. Tell him that the parts
should have been rejected, not reworked. I suspect (and you should tell him
this) that he felt the parts were subject to a lower airworthiness standard
because they were to be used in an experimental aircraft. Tell him you want
your money returned for the reason listed above. Tell him you intend to
notify the FAA under FAR Part 13 that his repair station conducts unairworthy
repairs of parts and issues tags authorizing return to service. If he still
refuses to refund your money, call the FSDO and file a complaint, but do it
in writing. Go see a FSDO Maintenance Inspector, show him the evidence. That
repair station will likely have a specific Inspector assigned to it, it is
that Inspector that you wish to see. Your goal is to convince the FAA
Inspector that he has an enforcement action against the repair station; you
can do this by providing any copies of correspondence, Lycoming inspection
criteria, visual inspection of the parts, and copies of the tags, your own
testimony or that of any witness. If you need help with the FAR 13 complaint,
contact me offline directly.
The repair station will likely say that your parts rusted after the repair,
and that the pitting is your fault. So it is imperative that you initiate
this process right away for this reason. And yes, always ask for serviceable
tags with any part rework from any repair station.
Hope this helps.
Jon Ross 80094 - Finishing kit
Jross10612(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Cylinder troubles continued....... |
I've shown the cylinders to several other A&P's, and all agreed, at least
two of the cylinders can't be considered airworthy. Another one is missing
the studs on the intake port. I showed them to a friend of mine who works for
the FAA in Oklahoma City, although not for the FSDO. He exclaimed "Holy ____!
I hope he kissed you first!" I've talked to an IA I know, and we're going to
dimensionaly inspect the cylinders and remove the valves to inspect the valve
faces and seats. I also discovered that he did not replace the exhaust seats,
even though I stated up front that I wanted new ones, but he didn't charge me
for them either.
I'm planning on giving the shop owner, Larry Brown, the opportunity on
Monday to make good on his work. If he and I are unable to come to an
agreement, I'll take my case to the FSDO, and turn to an attorney for
monetary compensation for damages.
In the meantime, my engine sits disassembled waiting for the cylinders.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BumFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | MERFI $7.00 vs Burlington free |
In a message dated 9/11/99 23:23:20, Bbrut55(at)aol.com writes:
At least with an airplane there are a lot
more places to go. I find the smaller flyins more fun and the people are
really glad to see you.
Bill BRUTON
RV-8QB empennage >>
y' All come to Burlington 24,25, 26 Sep 99. No registration fee and we are
always glad to see you ............. if you are an RV person. Prizes,
activities, forums (fora? Forae?).
Come and see the best RVs in the Rocky mountain area, and see the BC Squadron
from Texas, up close and personal.
D Walsh, assistant organizer and associate project person for Rocky Mountain
RVators annual fly in
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
Listers,
One of my fiberglass GLF's came out badly twisted after I glued it on (it was
straight before that). Needless to say, I didn't foam the darn thing in
place, as it's gonna have to come back off.
Anyway...
1) Any ideas on removing it without destroying it?
2) Any ideas on how to make sure the next one goes on straight? On this one
(and the other one, which came out slightly twisted, but not nearly as bad),
I drilled and cleco'd the GLF to an aluminum angle, and glued the trailing
edge with the GLF cleco'd to the angle.
Thanks,
Kyle Boatright
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
>
>This may sound like sour grapes but I want to know if it's just me or is there
>something wrong when you take your airplane to a fly-in ( not Oshkosh or
>Sun-N-Fun ) and they charge you $7.00 to park your airplane. They also
>charged my passenger $7.00 for being there. Am I wrong to believe that
>they wouldn't have a fly-in if it weren't for the planes flying in....
I can understand the request for $$ for a small fly-in since most don't
make much profit. I CANNOT understand how we put up with paying so much
money to EAA/Oshkosh. I am talking about the show planes, not the camper
aircraft. If EAA sells 800,000 tickets during the Oshkosh fly-in week,
surely they could give the 5000 show planes a break. Its might even be OK
to charge a few bucks for tie down. But to then charge ~$15/ day for
tickets is a disgrace. What would happen if they had an "AirVenture" and no
one showed up? We need a good boycott. Maybe Cesar Chavez is listening
from up "There" and can give us some advice.
Louis I. Willig, RV-4 - N8ZZ
larywil(at)home.com
(610) 668-4964
Philadelphia, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Von's accident |
writes:
>
>
> Fellow Listers:
>
> I know this may be premature since nothing as been officially
> published, but
> has anyone heard anything more definitive on Von Alexander's
> accident? I
> ask this as the risk of stirring up more speculation, but if anyone
> has any
> reasonably reliable information, perhaps we may all benefit.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doug
>
> ===========
> Doug Weiler, pres MN Wing
> Hudson, WI
> 715-386-1239
> dougweil(at)pressenter.com
>
>
>
>
>
--
>
>
--
>
>
--
>
>
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
This Von Alexander's daughter Misty. In reply to your question regarding
my Dad's accident, we really haven't heard anything new other than
"catastrophic engine failure". Our family has been watching the RV-list
to see if we can learn anything from you guys and all your experience,
it's been very helpful. And it's encouraging to know that two monthes
after Dad's accident you haven't forgotten him and the family he left
behind ( Two boys,9 and 16 and me, 18). Be assured that as soon as we
hear anything more we will let you guys know. Anything to help prevent
another loss as tragic as this one. Thanks, Misty J. Alexander
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Van's Instructions |
Hey Rob,
Quit sniveling, You got it the air and think how much fun you had innovating
every little piece. You can say YOUR are a builder.
Just kidding Rob,
Bill BRUTON
RV-8QB (snicker snicker)
empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Von's accident |
Misty, I wonder if you or any of your brothers and sisters have any
interest in experimental aircraft and plan to follow in your Dad pursuit
of aviation.
Earl
n41va(at)juno.com wrote:
>
>
> writes:
> >
> >
> > Fellow Listers:
> >
> > I know this may be premature since nothing as been officially
> > published, but
> > has anyone heard anything more definitive on Von Alexander's
> > accident? I
> > ask this as the risk of stirring up more speculation, but if anyone
> > has any
> > reasonably reliable information, perhaps we may all benefit.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > ===========
> > Doug Weiler, pres MN Wing
> > Hudson, WI
> > 715-386-1239
> > dougweil(at)pressenter.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --
> >
> >
> --
> >
> >
> --
> >
> >
>
> Von Alexander
> N41VA(at)juno.com
> This Von Alexander's daughter Misty. In reply to your question regarding
> my Dad's accident, we really haven't heard anything new other than
> "catastrophic engine failure". Our family has been watching the RV-list
> to see if we can learn anything from you guys and all your experience,
> it's been very helpful. And it's encouraging to know that two monthes
> after Dad's accident you haven't forgotten him and the family he left
> behind ( Two boys,9 and 16 and me, 18). Be assured that as soon as we
> hear anything more we will let you guys know. Anything to help prevent
> another loss as tragic as this one. Thanks, Misty J. Alexander
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight N401RH |
Tom,
I have been working on the system for over two years. The first system is in
my RV-4, I am also currently puting test systems in another 4 and a 6A. My
plan is to put some hours on these three units and then start to sell them if
everything goes well.
Rob Hickman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Aux Fuel Tank, Fiberglass, Interior Painting Photos - RV-6A |
Listers,
While waiting for my Corlar primer to dry I scanned in photos of my 12
gal aux fuel tank, fiberglass work (yuk), and interior painting. Anyone
interested can see the photos at http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
Tim
******
Tim Lewis
timrv6a(at)iname.com
N47TD RV-6A, painting
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a/jpi.html - No JPI stuff in my airplane
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Two Holes for Wing Tie Down |
Here is a good one guys.(don't laught too hard) I somehow managed to drill
the hole for my left hand wing tie down on the upper portion of the spar,
then I put one in the proper place. I have sent to Van's for advice on this,
but would like to get other opinions also. I kinda feel that to have two
fairly large holes opposite each other is not a good thing. I could see how
there may be a need to reinforce the area surrounding the improper hole. My
fix,
if I had no advisers, would be as follows. Please feel free to comment on
this. First, I would get a piece of material of the same thickness as the
spar and make a bend of the same radius as the spar. I would cut this piece
so that it would lay on the inside of the spar overlapping both the flange
and the spar flange strips and laying under the stiffener to which the tie
down connects. I would make a shim from this stock to place under this
stiffener.
I would backdrill the holes thru the spar flange strips. ( picking up two
rivets
on either side of the hole) I would dimple both the repair stiffener and the
spar to accept nine 1/8" flush head rivets, five above the hole and two each
on either side of the hole. Just a crazy idea on how to strengthen this area.
It is possible that Van's will tell me to polish the edges of this hole
extensively and move on, but I'd like to hear from others on this. I
certainly do not want an area of weakness in my wings.
Thanks in advance.
Jim Nice
RV6A(Wings)
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: oil cooler & wood prop for 220hp 6A |
>
>speed any day of the week.
>
>If you had a C/S prop, your problem would be solved (at a huge price), but
>then you would have another problem. How do you fly an aircraft at 220 mph
>when the redline speed is 210 - 215 mph? All of the above are my thoughts
>and experiences with my HP/prop combo. It certainly is not the Gospel, and
>some of it may not apply to your situation, but I hope it provides some
>info for you.
>
Redline speed is CAS and is close to TAS only at sea level. At normal
cruising altitudes it is easy to cruise at a TAS that is higher than the CAS
redline speed and yet not be close to redline. Ask any 747 pilot.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Deffner" <deffner(at)glade.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight N401RH |
What system? Is this something that the rest of us might be interested in?
----------
> From: RobHickman(at)aol.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: First Flight N401RH
> Date: Sunday, September 12, 1999 4:32 PM
>
>
> Tom,
>
> I have been working on the system for over two years. The first system
is in
> my RV-4, I am also currently puting test systems in another 4 and a 6A.
My
> plan is to put some hours on these three units and then start to sell
them if
> everything goes well.
>
> Rob Hickman
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's instructions |
I've found that the further along I get in the project, the less time I
spend looking at the manual. The tail kit instructions were more than
adequate in my opinion. Sure, a few pictures here and there would have
helped, but reading the text alone, and closely studying the plans, which
are very good, worked for me. The most challenging kit for me was the
fuselage. There were a few places in the manual that I felt were backwards
in order, and reading ahead became necessary so as not to build myself into
a corner. Some of the instructions simply did not work at all for me...such
as the recommendation to use a certain type of autobody filler on the cowl.
It SUCKED, and just smelled horrible and never dried sufficiently to be
easily sanded. Von Alexander pointed this out also.
At the classic "90% done, 90% left to go" stage, I must say I'm VERY pleased
with my experiences with my Van's Aircraft kit. Many times I've thought how
well a certain part fits to another part, or how so few parts can make such
a rugged airframe. Writing instructions to suit every type of builder from
various walks of life is impossible. I feel they do a decent job, but can
certainly improve. There are so many other forms of instructions and
builder's tips out there, and all one has to do is ask the RV list for
advice, and it will surely be offered. Some of it works, some of it might
not. Ain't life grand?
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
Fiddling with the skirt....canopy skirt, that is.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kay" <rrich(at)wwnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 09/08/99 |
Dear Sir:
Please Unsubscribe me from your e-mail list thank you.
Bob Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark D. Dickens" <mddickens(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | SportAir Workshop |
I just returned from the Alexander SportAir workshop (Basic Metal
Working) in Griffin, GA this weekend. I attended it in preparation for
my RV-8 project (the emp kit will surely arrive any day now :-)). I
read all the posts about these workshops and the comments ranged from
"use the money to buy more tools" to "it's cheaper to go to a workshop
than it is to screw something up and wait 2 weeks for a
replacement"...well I subscribed to the latter reasoning and I'm glad I
did.
I thought I'd add my experience to the archive for those out there
thinking about going to one of these workshops. The instructor was Bob
Vineyard, an A&P with 50 years of experience in working with metal. We
drilled and drilled and dimpled and deburred and countersunk and riveted
and riveted and riveted. And yes I made mistakes, but I'm glad I did
because Bob showed me lots of ways to fix these mistakes...he also had
lots of recommendations on tools and how to buy them. As far as the
money spent, I feel that I'll save it down the line with reduced
mistakes. All in all, a good deal and a hell of a way to spend a
weekend.
Mark Dickens
Germantown, TN
RV-8 Emp Kit Ordered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <dave(at)davebarnhart.com> |
>>Can you tell me the difference between RG142 and RG400
>>cable except that one has solid center conductor and the
>>other stranded.
>
> Why use either of these cables?
Well, for one reason, the Bendix/King KLX-135A Installation Manual
specifies that if the length of the coax is to be longer than 9 feet (as I
recall), RG-142 or RG-400 is to be used.
> The modern RG cables like 400 and 142 are still
> small diameter cables and have losses comparable
> to RG-58.
NOT TRUE.
RG58 has a nominal attenuation of 20db per 100 feet at 1GHz.
RG142 has a nominal attenuation of 13db per 100 feet at 1GHz.
And to answer the original question:
>Can you tell me the difference between RG142 and RG400
>cable except that one has solid center conductor and the
>other stranded.
That IS the difference
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <dave(at)davebarnhart.com> |
>
>This may sound like sour grapes but I want to know if it's just me or is
there
>something wrong when you take your airplane to a fly-in ( not Oshkosh or
>Sun-N-Fun ) and they charge you $7.00 to park your airplane. They also
>charged my passenger $7.00 for being there.
Since I am on the OTHER side of the fence (I am the aircraft Registration
Chairman for Copperstate), allow me to add my perspective. If I had my
way, then yes, showplanes would get in free (actually they do: we charge
ZERO for the airplane, but al pilots and pax must pay admission like
everyone else).
The Problem is: where do you draw the line? If you let homebuilts in free,
then what about the antiques, classics, and warbirds? Then if you let them
in free what about the guy with the REALLY NICE (but just a year too young
to be a Classic) airplane? And I could go on and on.
When I go to other fly-ins, I am qiute happy to pay the admission. Yes, my
RV-6 is there for others to see, but that is not why I came. *I* came to
see a lot of *other* airplanes, so in that respect, I'm a spectator too.
Now, if you want to come to Copperstate and get in *FREE*, I can arrange
it. All you have to do is to volunteer at least four hours of your time
and you get in free that day. Contact me via private email, we'll discuss
where, when, and what, and I'll take care of the rest. How's that for a
deal, eh?
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
RV-6 N601DB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com> |
| Subject: | Van's Instructions |
> Don't know how long you have had the RV-3 kit. Van's does update the
> plans from time to time. You might ask scott if they have any updates.
Yes, Van's did that in their post-1984 plans when they changed the design of
the main wing spar, and various other things. I don't know if they put part
numbers on prior to that or not? I have since got a set of preview plans of
the newer design so I can "communicate" with Van's on part numbers (but
don't expect them to know what they are right off hand), and acquired a
builders manual to show me what mistakes I've made so far! :-)
Actually, Van's has no plans (full-size or preview) of the 1973-1983 (type
I) RV-3 available last I checked, and don't know if they ever have plans on
running another re-print of them. If anyone on the list ever needs any info
on the older type I RV-3's, look no further than Matt's new RV3 list. . .
we'll have your answers! Got newsletters 1-24 or so too!
I acquired my RV-3 project a couple years ago and have researched all of
this stuff extensively. I probably have the oldest "non-flying" RV ever to
exist! :-) I'm not in particularly ashamed of that, just wondering how
long it will be until the historic first flight? :-)
Keep on Buckin! RV-3's forever (now with our own list too!)!
Rob Reece
RV-3 SN45
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <dave(at)davebarnhart.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's instructions |
>I want Tab A to fit in
>Slot B without having to bend tab A and cut slot B and rivet a tab C on the
>back because it needs to go into slot D a year later but I have no way of
>knowing that unless I read the whole manaul ahead of time.
And that illustrates my point exactly. Five years ago, you had to figure
out from the plans that you had to *fabricate* Tab A and Slot B, but your
building experience up to that point would have prepared you well for that.
The non-prepunched tail kits taught us to think like *builders*, not
*assemblers*.
Now with all the pre-punching and quick-building, that part of your
education is missing, and you are unprepared for the fact that you need to
think ahead about C and D before committing to A and B.
In some ways, we were better off before the pre-puched and quick-build kits
came along.
I'm not saying "life was better in the good old days...". I think every
one of us with completed RVs has heard Ken Scott tell us "make it work" at
least once. I'm just saying that I think we were better prepared to do so.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
RV-6 N601DB
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Browne" <cebrowne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6A Pressure brake lines |
The flexible pressure hoses (VA-118) coming off the pedal cylinders run to
an in-line union fitting which is drilled into a piece of angle on the
firewall call a F-6122 (dwg 49). Both hoses chafe along other pieces of
angle making up the firewall above the fittings as the pedals move. My
instinct is to classify that a bad thing, and a 1/4" spacer moving the
F-6122 away from the fire wall does little to remedy it. The other option
is to grind away at the angle on the firewall upon which the hoses rub and
that gives me hives. So what is it? More spacers, grind, or ignore? Maybe
a 45 degree union fitting?
Chris Browne
-6A Finish
Atlanta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LEPost102(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 09/08/99 |
please unsubscribe me from your llist
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Coax Cable for transponders |
>>>Can you tell me the difference between RG142 and RG400
>>>cable except that one has solid center conductor and the
>>>other stranded.
>>
>>bn: Why use either of these cables?
>
>Well, for one reason, the Bendix/King KLX-135A Installation Manual
>specifies that if the length of the coax is to be longer than 9 feet (as I
>recall), RG-142 or RG-400 is to be used.
>
>
>bn: The modern RG cables like 400 and 142 are still
>bn: small diameter cables and have losses comparable
>bn: to RG-58.
>
>NOT TRUE.
>RG58 has a nominal attenuation of 20db per 100 feet at 1GHz.
>RG142 has a nominal attenuation of 13db per 100 feet at 1GHz.
bn:
I stand corrected . . . but for a run of say 15' (very
long in a single engine airplane) we're talking
3db for RG58 versus 2db for RG142 . . . which is
still trivial. I encourage my readers to put the xponder
antenna as close to the instrument panel as they can.
Given that very few antennas are on the belly of any
airplane, a coax length of 5-6 feet is possible for
most airplanes . . . a GOOD thing to shoot for irrespective
of the kind of coax you use. Losses in this length
of coax are insignificant.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Two MORE Email Lists at Matronics... |
Dear Listers,
At the request of a couple of members, I have added two more Email Lists to
the Servers here at Matronics. These include:
avionics-list(at)matronics.com
Aircraft Avionics related topics such as Radios, GPSs, VSIs, DMEs, etc.
engines-list(at)matronics.com
Aircraft Engine related topics such as Lycomings, Auto conversions, etc.
As usual, the new lists have full archive searching and browsing capabilities.
You may subscribe to the new lists by using the Web-Based subscription form
at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Thanks for the helpful advice. . . . . . Maybe
>you might expand on your explanation and suggest or remind those
>interested that a stranded center conductor coaxial cable is the best way
>to go in a mobile installation.
Excellent point. About 33 years ago we had a rash of
VOR antenna system failures in the Cessna singles.
Seems the coax cable from panel to antenna back on the
vertical fin became shorted.
It took some digging to figure out why. The coax had
been routed through an area of structure where the
bend radius was too tight. Over time, the pressure
of a single strand conductor on the plastic caused
the wire to cold-flow through the insulation and short
out on the outer conductor! Replacment of the coax with
stranded center conductor -AND- rerouting for a larger
bend radius prevented this from happening again . . .
Further, a stranded conductor is more resistant to
breakage from flexing and is preferable for that
reason also.
Thanks for the reminder!
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A Pressure brake lines |
Chris, I would wrap the hose where it interferes with something, perhaps a
slit piece of larger pvc tubing. BTW, I ran the right brake hose (pilots
side) up and to the right to a bracket mounted on the top firewall angle,
making it easier to continue on to the right side of the plane without
having to route around the battery box.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
> The flexible pressure hoses (VA-118) coming off the pedal cylinders run
to
> an in-line union fitting which is drilled into a piece of angle on the
> firewall call a F-6122 (dwg 49). Both hoses chafe along other pieces of
> angle making up the firewall above the fittings as the pedals move. My
> instinct is to classify that a bad thing, and a 1/4" spacer moving the
> F-6122 away from the fire wall does little to remedy it. The other
option
> is to grind away at the angle on the firewall upon which the hoses rub
and
> that gives me hives. So what is it? More spacers, grind, or ignore?
Maybe
> a 45 degree union fitting?
>
> Chris Browne
> -6A Finish
> Atlanta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: GLF Alignment |
This SOAH took the GLF to the hardware Store where they FOGTHD.
No Problem then.
Cecil Hatfield'
>
>Listers,
>
>One of my fiberglass GLF's came out badly twisted after I glued it on
>(it was
>straight before that). Needless to say, I didn't foam the darn thing
>in
>place, as it's gonna have to come back off.
>
>Anyway...
>
>1) Any ideas on removing it without destroying it?
>
>2) Any ideas on how to make sure the next one goes on straight? On
>this one
>(and the other one, which came out slightly twisted, but not nearly as
>bad),
>I drilled and cleco'd the GLF to an aluminum angle, and glued the
>trailing
>edge with the GLF cleco'd to the angle.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Kyle Boatright
>RV-6
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 weight and balance 66-77,81,83-91 |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
>
>> > >Sounds like it's time to call on the list for some weights. Does
>>> anyone
>>> >know the actual weight for
>>> >any of the following:
>>> >
>>> >-Hartzel CS prop (prop weight, and other system components)
>>> >-Sensenich Aluminum prop (Brian?)
>>> >-Total weight of Christen oil system and oil
>>> >
>>> >Any info would be appreciated.
>>> >
>>> >Thanks,
>>> >
>>
>> > >Russell Duffy
>
>Sensenich's web page gives weights of 40 lb, and 43.5 lb depending on
>the type of cowling. I'm not sure I understand the difference,
>unless these weights include the extension. See
>http://www.sensenich.com/direct/vans.htm
>
Well.... now you can see that I am not always right.
I don't know were I was remembering the 20 lbs from.
The likely difference in the above weights is do to the 2 different cowl
styles that have been sold. The old fixed pitch cowl (no longer supplied
in kits) and the now standard constant speed cowl. Each cowl required a
different prop. extension (spacer). 4 inch on the old cowl, and 2 1/4
inch on the current one.
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagent.com> |
| Subject: | Two MORE Email Lists at Matronics... |
>At the request of a couple of members, I have added two more Email Lists to
>the Servers here at Matronics. These include...
Can we possibly STOP making an email list for every conceivable topic? I
already feel like we're missing out on some of the good ideas that come up
on the RV-8 list that aren't *really* specific to the -8. "Hey guys, found
a good way to do XXX" probably applies to the other models as well. The
real pisser for me is now I'm gonna have to search like 24 damn archives if
I'm looking for something. Let's see, nothing on hooking up the fuel pump
on the "RV" list, now the -3 list, let me try the -4 list, now the -6 list,
now the -6a list, now both -8 lists, now the "engine components" list...
arg.
Seems to me that the newer faster-than-snarf search engine that Matt hooked
up for us pretty much does anything I need. Yes, sometimes I have to skip
over many hits that are *gasp* not what I was looking for, but hitting that
"next" button is pretty quick.
Mitchell Faatz N727MF (reserved) RV-6AQME
San Jose, CA Engine mounted...
President/Newsletter Editor Bay Area Rvators
http://www.skybound.com/BARV
http://www.aftershock.org/rv.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Garrett" <garrett(at)thesocket.com> |
On page 6-5 of the manual for the HS - 5th paragraph from the bottom. Vans
talks about using a "marking tool". The one they illustrate looks more like
a "Hole Finder" than center marking tool.
Anyone else get passed this point without using this Vans tool. I've got a
center line marker from Avery's I think is doing a good job on my flanges,
but if I need to be using a different tool let me know.
Thanks
Matt
RV6 tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Reynolds <RVReynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A Pressure brake lines |
Chris Browne wrote:
"The flexible pressure hoses (VA-118) coming off the pedal cylinders...chafe
along other pieces of angle making up the firewall."
I made a new F6122 with a 3/8 longer leg to move the AN 832 fittings further
aft from the bulkhead angles. Drill out 4 rivets on F6122, use the old holes
to drill the new ones. It makes a much nicer installation!
Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA RV-6A, doing fuselage inside stuff, still!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
Listers,
I've read several of the comments from both sides of this thread. As
one who really enjoys fly-ins, I've been to several. I've talked to a lot
of people about these same issues. It costs money to run fly-ins.
However, we sometimes get to the point where it costs too darned
much money to run them and drives the entry fee up. When that
happens, the complaints start to roll in.
Let's face it. The cost of flying is very expensive for most of us. I, for
one, can barely stay in aviation and do so by giving up other things I
enjoy. So, every penny counts. For me to spend all of my week's
allowance to get to an event and find out I'd have to pay a large
price to show my plane (possibly my free cash that I would have
spent on food) would most likely keep me away. I think that was
where Jim was coming from. Some of us just don't have unlimited
funds to throw at this hobby. We really don't have enough money to
stay in; but, we don't have what it takes to get out. Heck, I'd even
go back to work to stay in, if I had to! :-)
On the other hand, those who run the events think the cost is
justified. Yes, there are many things to buy/rent like tents, potties,
etc. For those, someone has to pay the bills. However, even those
things can get out of hand. Listen to the complaints coming from
those who are avid attendees of Oshkosh and Sun-n-Fun. A goodly
percentage of attendees did not go to Oshkosh this year, by what
I've read. Of those who did, many will not be going back. In fact,
many of the volunteers will not be going back to Oshkosh. The
powers to be at Oshkosh have gotten so money hungry that they've
driven away many of the ones who make the show happen! That's
sad; but, that's the direction many of the fly-ins are going. Sun-n-Fun
experienced huge growth because many of us were looking for
another place to go besides Oshkosh. Even they are losing those
who flocked to them. Why? They're almost like Oshkosh. I've
attended Sun-n-Fun and may never go back. I've never been to
Oshkosh and have no desire to go there. Why? Oshkosh doesn't
give a hoot if I'm there, or not.
Personally, I've had more fun at the small fly-ins where any airplane
that shows up is welcomed. They know that maybe not too many will
show; so, each airplane is important to their event. There is no
charge; and, oftentimes, the food is free. Those grassroots events
are more relaxed and low budget. Most of the time, the products like
the food, tents, etc. are donated by the community. The money
generated is derived from food sales and airplane rides. Maybe
those events are where most of us should be instead of trying to
support events like Oshkosh where the rich and their military aircraft
are more thought of (gas, food, lodging provided free of charge) than
us old poor boys who have to struggle to stay in this hobby and have
had to build our own airplanes because we couldn't afford the ready
built ones.
In my travels around here, some locations of events that are nice and
free: Lebanon, TN; Lexington, TN; Mt. Sterling, KY; Salem, IN.
There are many more; but, these really stood out for me. We have a
very nice fly-in at Falls of the Rough State Park (Rough River) in
western KY; but, it does have a small fee. The fee is voluntary. If
one looks around, these little events abound. There is no need to go
to the big ones. If you're at any of these events, look for me. I'll most
likely be there, if I can afford the gas to get there. :-)
As for those of you who volunteer at the events that do charge, don't
get too big for your britches. Just listen to the volunteers who have
been screwed at Oshkosh all of these years. There are some real
sour feelings out there. When things get out of hand, it's darned
hard to go back to grass roots. Sometimes, when an event gets to
successful, the reason for the event is forgotten.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Should fly soon)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.James" <vtx(at)ntplx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HS marking tool |
Hi Shirley,
I found the best flange "center line" marking liner-upper to be a PC
Computer-Case "slot cover plate". They cost nothing, all PC's have 2 or
3 unused ones, made of steel with nice little "hook" end to slide down
the flange.. Just thumb-pin your marker to anywhere along the edge,
slide it down, voila~ Also, these little steel flat covers make dandy
extensions for side-clecko'ing ribs to spars (simulating the skin
overlay, ala Orndorff video). I've been heaving them out for years, now
they've got new purpose!
RJ in CT, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marian Rendall & Scott Sawby" <mkr(at)netw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Instructions |
----------
I agree completely with Jim Sears assessment of the manual. I didn't have
access to the list or Frank Justice's instructions until I was midway
through the fuselage. There were a whole lot of ruined parts previous to
this point and few after. A cynic builder friend was of the opinion that
the poor instructions were intentional on Van's part to sell more parts!
The manual is adequate only with the supplementary material that is
available, it is not sufficient as a sole source of instructions for the
average builder.
Scott Sawby RV 6A N341SS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Skirt shrinking |
Rick,
Flute the bottom edge heavily to get it to line up with the longeron. Then
cut a 2" wide strip of .025 to fit the length of the outside of the side
skin, flush with the bottom edge and flush with the rear overlap skin.
Covers up the flutes, stiffens the side skins, and looks great.
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6
"Painting"
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Caldwell <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Saturday, September 11, 1999 8:14 AM
Subject: RV-List: Skirt shrinking
>
>No, its not what you're thinking. I am trying to give my al. sliding
canopy
>side skirts one more chance at aligning with the fuselage before I toss
them
>and start glassing. The skirts are outside the fuselage from 1/8 to 3/16
>in. for the aft 2/3's of the length each side. I tried slightly bending
>them inward with a homemade brake just below the lower rivet line. This
>helped slightly but still at 1/8 - 3/16 in most spots. Looks like I need
to
>shrink the bottom of the skirts. I do not have a shrinker or english
wheel.
> I won't use fluting pliers because I want smooth skirts. Does anyone
know
>of a method to slightly shrink this with the common RV building tools we
>have in our garages?
>
>Also, for those yet to tackle the sliding canopy, pay attention. Be sure
to
>set the height of the front sliding frame bow before you trim the side
>skirts bottom edge. I did the opposite and now the skirts are up about
>3/32" above the fuselage in the front.
>TIA
>Rick Caldwell
>RV-6 Final canopy work
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Pichon" <pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's instructions |
I agree. Van's documentation is the worst. The only stuff that can compare to
Van's manual is the drawing set. I love my RV-4, but somebody, preferably an
engineer, needs to overhaul both the manual and the drawings.
"David A. Barnhart" on 09/10/99 09:09:16 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Van's instructions
RFC822 message headers
Sombody wrote:
>
>Dont look too hard for instructions written by Van's guys on the type
>S cowl...if they were included, they would probably be useless like the
>rest of their manual....their picture (dwg) is truly worth a thousand
of their ...
>
>yes...that's a bit caustic...but Van's documentation is the worst I
>have ever seen in any industry...(except a few translations from Taiwan).
>
I'm BAAACK!!!! (Hi Scott).
time you finished the tail kit, you had learned how to 'figure out how to
make it work'. Since Van's started all the pre-punching and
Quick-Building, however, I've noticed that it seems that a lot of builders
have the "Insert Tab A into Slot B" mentality.
Frankly, the comment above about being the worst in the industry is WAAAY
off base. I've seen plans and manuals for a number of homebuilts, and even
the old stuff (circa 1994 when I started building) is head-and-shoulders
above the rest.
So quit whining and get back to building or you'll never finish!!!!
I can say that because my beautiful RV-6 (NX601DB) has been flying for 16
months and 103 hours now. I just returned from Van's homecoming, and I can
tell you that landing that wonderful flying machine at Sunset was one of
the funnest things I've ever done.
Best Regards,
dave barnhart
RV-6 NX601DB
SN 23744
Flying (and loving it)
________________________________________________________________________________
Drugstore surgery tape or the white tape used to secure bandages...the
waterproof stuff....works very well with a sharpie , won't age or dry like other
marking tapes, is readily available, is cheep,is bad english.......
rscott(at)involved.com on 09/10/99 11:04:18 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV-List: Labeling Wires
For temporary labeling go down to your hardware store & buy WHITE electrical
tape--yes, it comes in white. Can write on it with a ball point pen. Costs
a couple of bucks. If you leave it on a long time, it doesn't go to pot
like masking tape.
Dick Scott
Interstate NC37301
Subject: RV-List: Labeling Wires
I have a neat device for labeling wires and terminals. It is a 3M
ScotchCode SWD Write-On Tape Dispenser, P/N 054007 -11954 and a 3M
ScotchCode SMP Marker Pen. I paid about $22 at a local electronics supply
store.
You write on the white roughened tab with the super-fine-point pen, pull on
the end of the substrate tape, and you have left a 1 1/4 inch length of 3/4
wide tape with the written label and a length of "laminating" tape. You
wrap the piece around the wire or terminal or whatever you want neatly
identified and it looks great and works great. On ring terminals I cut the
pieces longitudinally to 3/8 wide and identify each terminal at its screw
down site by wrapping around the crimped ring terminal. On thin wires like
#20 I make a little flat flag about 1/4 by 1/2 or 3/4 and flatten it out
along the axis of the wire.
Consumer Warning: Radio Shack makes a similar product but it is junk! The
tape is not as flexible and it unravels after a few days.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New, RV Model-Specific Email Lists |
I think it's a bad idea!
90% of the discussions on this list apply to ALL RV aircraft. Usually if
someone has a type-specific question they add RV-X to the subject line. If a
subject line doesn't look interesting - don't open the mail.
Please reconsider.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
Active participant for over 5 years.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>I have a Narco Transponder on my Europa, connected to its aerial on a
>ground plane about 6 foot away. Although my VHF radio (Garmin GNC 250) is
>fed from a separate bus, with widely separated aerial cables, I get
>intermittent interference when the Narco responds to a radar - just a short
>buzz as the identification lamp lights on the Transponder.
>Any ideas on what I can do to suppress the interference?
A very common problem . . . especially with "plastic"
airplanes. Your transponder puts out a stream of
very narrow, high power pulses that carry the digitally
encoded data for your squawk, altitude, etc. Common
propogation modes for the transponder to interfere
with other radios are coupling between antenna feedlines
(not case here because you've separated them), direct
radiation of transponder energy into the antenna of
the victim radio and radiation of transponder energy
into wiring associated with victim radio.
Try turning down the volume on your VHF comm and see if
the transponder noise is still there (of course you
have to do this while the transponder is being iterrogated
by a ground radar). If the noise goes away, then it's
most likely getting into the comm receiver's antenna.
Moving either or both of the antennas to increase
separation may do the trick.
If the noise does NOT go away, then it's getting into
the wiring. You can try ferrite filter "beads" on wire
bundle going into back of comm receiver, also shielding
may help. If push comes to shove, a filter assembly
consisting of inductors and capacitors on each pin of
the wiring to the comm receiver may be necessary.
Metal airplanes dont have the latter problem very
often due to the isolating effect of the aircraft's
skin . . .
Wish there was a "magic bullet" but what you're experiencing
can be one of the hardest problems to fix.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New, RV Model-Specific Email Lists |
| From: | "Shelby Smith" <shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
I agree. My e-mail program allow me to catagorize mail by a variety of sort
routines and would easily allow all RV-8 messages to be put in a separate
folder, if that is what I wanted, but it is not.
My .02 worth.
--
Shelby Smith
shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com
RV6A - Skinning Fuselage - 200HP
N95EB - reserved
----------
>From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Re: New, RV Model-Specific Email Lists
>Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999, 7:36 AM
>
> I think it's a bad idea!
>
> 90% of the discussions on this list apply to ALL RV aircraft. Usually if
> someone has a type-specific question they add RV-X to the subject line. If a
> subject line doesn't look interesting - don't open the mail.
>
> Please reconsider.
>
> Gary Corde
> RV-6 N211GC - NJ
> Active participant for over 5 years.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass dilemma |
If the stuff was not true epoxy.. ie.. polyester or vinalester... I would
suspect the foam you used in the backing process. The foam may be all gooed up
or otherwise dissolved.. Most Foams are OK with true epoxys but the reverse is
not true with the xxxesters. Srcape it out & use a west system (with the 8
dollar pumps) or any other NON 1-to-1 aviation quality epoxy. The pease of
mind is well worth it . If you did happen to use a epoxy (or a West Virginia
cousin of epoxy) the non hardening issue is still there & the shape of the foam
is still in question......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
> In fact, many of the volunteers will not be going back to Oshkosh.
>
>Jim Sears in KY
>RV-6A N198JS (Should fly soon)
>
Jim, I have read your complaints for the last year. You don't even go and
then complain bitterly about Oshkosh. I wish you would get your facts
straight.
You make unsubstantiated statements as facts when I as a Chairman know from
first hand what goes on and whether any volunteers will return.
I am presently looking at a fair way to curtail my volunteers. These just
aren't just any volunteers but qualified mechanic type volunteers. These
are the guys and gals that help all "pilots with problems."
Our EAA Chapter 75 just built a new 24 by 32 repair building at Oshkosh for
the convention. Does that sound like we are not coming back? We have been
doing emergency aircraft repair at the EAA convention since 1963. I have
been doing it every year only since 1971.
One of my volunteers flew up from New Mexico to help with the building. He
flew back early to help finish it in time for the convention. I turned
down another that would have flown in from Denver for just 2 days of work
while we were building. As I said, I always have more good volunteers that
I can use. Not coming back??? You have to be kidding.
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
EAA Chapter 75 volunteer for 28 continous years
P.S. You would not even be building an RV-6A if it wasn't for the good work
of the EAA.
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
EAA volunteer for 28 continous years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
rv8-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | New Specific RV Lists Auto Forwarded to RV-List... |
Hi RV Listers,
I've received quite a few comments about the diluting affect having specific
lists will have on the main RV-List. Also, that archive searching would be
somewhat more difficult.
I've tried something this morning that might solve the problem. What I've
done is automatically forward any messages sent to the RV3-List, RV4-List,
RV6-List, and RV8-List to the main RV-List. This will assure that all
messages will be appended to the RV-List archive, easing the searching task
as well.
What do people think of this solution?
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
PS - I think that I've set it up so that, when a message is cross-posted to
more than one RV-Specific List as I did with this message, only one copy
will be forwarded to the RV-List for general viewing. Hopefully!
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 9/11/99 11:00:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
JimNolan(at)kconline.com writes:
<< It was a good fly in and there were a lot of beautiful airplanes there.
When
the registration fee used to be $3.00, I didn't have a grip but I think it's
getting
out of hand. Where will it stop?
Jim (cheapskate) Nolan
N444JN >>
I don't know if you know this but the people who stage the fly in, and all
the volunteers who staff it also have to pay the $7.00. And with all that
they are just barely covering expenses. The airshow performers only get fuel
money, for the same reason. I have attended MERFI every year for the last 7,
and a bunch of us guys from our chapter (325 from Cleveland) volunteer, and
there is a real danger of not having MERFI anymore, due to the amount of work
and expense involved, and the people who have done it for all these years are
getting kinda' burnt out. I pay the money as a token of appreciation to those
who work so hard to put it on.
Just another opinion in a sea of opinions.
Regards, Merle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shelby Smith" <shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
IT'S STILL SAFE TO FLY: Don't we all just love to tell nonpilot friends
that other forms of transportation are more dangerous than airplanes?
Here are the latest numbers, straight from the NTSB, to back you up. In
1998 in the United States and its territories, 43,920 people died in
transportation-related accidents. Aviation accounted for 683 deaths,
with 621 of them in GA. Bicyclists, recreational boaters, and people
walking in front of trains notched 794, 808, and 831 fatalities,
respectively.
This came over on the AVflash this morning. More people walk in front of
trains than die in Airplanes.
That'll raise some eyebrows at the next cocktail party.
Shelby Smith
http://www.neatcars.com/
shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com
615.726.3030
--
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Cole" <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Labeling Wires |
I think Bob Nuckoll's came up with this.....,Print wire labels out on your
printer and use clear shrink
tubing to hold them on with. It's neater than hand writing.
Ed Cole
RV6A Finish Kit
-----Original Message-----
From: pcondon(at)csc.com <pcondon(at)csc.com>
Date: Monday, September 13, 1999 6:35 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Labeling Wires
>
>
>Drugstore surgery tape or the white tape used to secure bandages...the
>waterproof stuff....works very well with a sharpie , won't age or dry like
other
>marking tapes, is readily available, is cheep,is bad english.......
>
>
>rscott(at)involved.com on 09/10/99 11:04:18 PM
>
>Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Labeling Wires
>
>
>For temporary labeling go down to your hardware store & buy WHITE
electrical
>tape--yes, it comes in white. Can write on it with a ball point pen.
Costs
>a couple of bucks. If you leave it on a long time, it doesn't go to pot
>like masking tape.
>
>Dick Scott
>Interstate NC37301
>
>
>Subject: RV-List: Labeling Wires
>
>
>I have a neat device for labeling wires and terminals. It is a 3M
>ScotchCode SWD Write-On Tape Dispenser, P/N 054007 -11954 and a 3M
>ScotchCode SMP Marker Pen. I paid about $22 at a local electronics supply
>store.
>You write on the white roughened tab with the super-fine-point pen, pull on
>the end of the substrate tape, and you have left a 1 1/4 inch length of 3/4
>wide tape with the written label and a length of "laminating" tape. You
>wrap the piece around the wire or terminal or whatever you want neatly
>identified and it looks great and works great. On ring terminals I cut the
>pieces longitudinally to 3/8 wide and identify each terminal at its screw
>down site by wrapping around the crimped ring terminal. On thin wires like
>#20 I make a little flat flag about 1/4 by 1/2 or 3/4 and flatten it out
>along the axis of the wire.
>Consumer Warning: Radio Shack makes a similar product but it is junk! The
>tape is not as flexible and it unravels after a few days.
>
>Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
>Hampshire, IL C38
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stafford, David" <david.stafford(at)cybex.com> |
| Subject: | New Specific RV Lists Auto Forwarded to RV-List... |
Great IDEA Matt !!!
Hi RV Listers,
I've received quite a few comments ...
I've tried something this morning that might solve the problem. What I've
done is automatically forward any messages sent to the RV3-List, RV4-List,
RV6-List, and RV8-List to the main RV-List. This will assure that all
messages will be appended to the RV-List archive, easing the searching task
as well.
What do people think of this solution?
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | looking for RV8 fuselage jig |
Anyone have a RV8 fuselage jig in the greater San Fransisco Bay area they
they would like to sell?
Regards,
Sam Ray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Von Dane <bvondane(at)atmel.com> |
| Subject: | Heating the workshop... |
Hi all...
I just finished plumbing my workshop (garage) for air, and have a question
about heat... I have already plumbed heat from the house furnace to the
garage, but I was also thinking of venting the clothes dryer into the garage
for additional heat... What is you take on this? Will I have a corrosion
problem from the high humidity of the heat?
Thanks for the advice!
-Bill Von Dane
-8A empennage on the way
bvondane(at)atmel.com
http://members.tripod.com/rv8tor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | G KF <ibflyin(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Secret Projects? |
Scott how are you guys coming on that Firewall Forward
kit? And how about the retractable step?
A hinged engine mount (ala Mooney) would be nice to.
Cheers!
Gary Fesenbek
Dallas, TX
RV6A, finishing touches
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jrh(at)mustang.us.dell.com (Randy Howard) |
| Subject: | Re: Safe to Fly? |
>
> ....
> transportation-related accidents. Aviation accounted for 683 deaths,
> with 621 of them in GA. Bicyclists, recreational boaters, and people
> walking in front of trains notched 794, 808, and 831 fatalities,
> respectively.
>
>
> This came over on the AVflash this morning. More people walk in front of
> trains than die in Airplanes.
I tried the NTSB.GOV site looking for the source of this without success.
Does anyone have a link to the specific data cited above?
--
Randy Howard (jrh(at)mustang.us.dell.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Drier Vent As Heat |
Just a word about venting a clothes drier into the garage. IMHO, it is a
waste of time, and not good for a project such as ours. The added humidity
is not good for your tools, and either is the extra lint. Unless using some
sort of heat exchanger, I would not mess with this. For folks setting up a
mobile home, most counties "require" the external venting because there is
enough
humidity in the exaust to start the underside of a mobile home to mold and
rot.
Jim Nice
RV6A(Wings)
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heating the workshop... |
Bill,
I think the real problem is carbon dioxide. I can't say for sure, but
doesn't a gas dryer just blow into the dryer...eg...there is no heat
exchanger in a dryer like a furnace?
I finally bit the bullet last year and installed a hanging gas furnace in my
garage. You can get a new one for about $500, used for less.
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6
"Painting"
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Von Dane <bvondane(at)atmel.com>
Date: Monday, September 13, 1999 11:25 AM
Subject: RV-List: Heating the workshop...
>
>Hi all...
>
>I just finished plumbing my workshop (garage) for air, and have a question
>about heat... I have already plumbed heat from the house furnace to the
>garage, but I was also thinking of venting the clothes dryer into the
garage
>for additional heat... What is you take on this? Will I have a corrosion
>problem from the high humidity of the heat?
>
>Thanks for the advice!
>
>-Bill Von Dane
>-8A empennage on the way
>bvondane(at)atmel.com
>http://members.tripod.com/rv8tor
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drier (dryer) Vent As Heat |
--- JNice51355(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Just a word about venting a clothes drier into the garage. IMHO, it
> is a
> waste of time, and not good for a project such as ours. The added
> humidity
> is not good for your tools, and either is the extra lint. Unless
> using some
> sort of heat exchanger, I would not mess with this.
In addition to all the above, heat exchangers you will see in the
stores made to use dryer exhaust to heat indoors specify they are not
to be used with gas dryers. Electric only!
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Wings rehung! Looking for my cleco pliars...
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Heating the workshop... |
Got the opposite problem in Arizona.
Just as important as my rivet gun and drill is
my evap. cooler. I made it a part of the tool list.
On a good day I can get the shop down to the low 80's.
Point is, if you are not comfortable (with in reason)
you won't want to work on your project.
Larry Olson
Cave Creek, AZ
RV6 - 105 degrees today!!!
Scott Mc - Remember what you're missing?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com> |
TEST MESSAGE to RV3-list
sorry. wanted to see if i had everything set up in my filters to got the
right mailbox.
Rob Reece
RV-3 SN45
___________________________________
Rob Reece,
Rocket Propulsion Test Facility
505-835-5716 voice
505-835-5299 fax
Microcosm/Volt
c/o EMRTC
NM Tech Mail Station
Socorro, NM 87801
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
>Jim, I have read your complaints for the last year. You don't even
>go and then complain bitterly about Oshkosh. I wish you would get
>your facts straight.
Well, I guess I should have guessed I'd be flamed by my comments
concerning Oshkosh. Mr. Galley and I have agreed to disagree
before. Mr. Galley, I stand firm in my statements. I know of one large
chartered plane load of volunteers who were part of the preparations
work this year. When they returned from the Oshkosh event, this
same group was very angry. I'd not expect them to come back. I've
also spoken to others who have offered to me that they will not be
returning to Oshkosh, either as a volunteer or as a participant. So,
unless those people are lying to me, I do have my facts straight.
Maybe it's time some of those who worship the powers to be at
Oshkosh take the blinders off and see what the rest of the world is
seeing.
As for my not going to Oshkosh, let me assure all of you that my
biggest dream was to finish my RV and fly it to Oshkosh. Well, I
guess I never will because I've read, and have been told, about so
many negatives that I don't really have the desire to attend. In fact,
some of those same negatives are beginning rear up at Sun-n-Fun.
Even though I've really enjoyed Sun-n-Fun in the past, I may no
longer attend that event, either. Even though cost is one of my
biggest concerns, my perception of EAA's not really appreciating our
homebuilts is a close second. If I'm not really wanted up there, why
should I waste my time and money attending? I can go to some little
fly-in where I'll be more than appreciated.
>You make unsubstantiated statements as facts when I as a
>Chairman know from first hand what goes on and whether any
>volunteers will return. I am presently looking at a fair way to curtail
>my volunteers. These just aren't just any volunteers but qualified
>mechanic type volunteers. These are the guys and gals that help
>all "pilots with problems."
If I remember, Mr. Galley is in charge of the the mechanics, and
such. Maybe he does have a steady group of volunteers there, just
as they have for the control tower. However, I'm not talking about
the special cases as much as I'm talking about the common grunt
that's willing to give up time to pick up trash, empty trash cans, paint,
etc. The ones I've talked with fall into that category. Maybe the
ones I've talked to were mad as hell and will cool down by next year.
If so, they may swallow their pride and show up. If so, so be it; but, I
detect the same kind of arrogance coming from Mr. Galley that's
forced me to back off and take my second look at the EAA. What I
see I don't like. Sorry if that offends you, Mr. Galley, or anyone else
who thinks the EAA is God's gift to aviation.
>Our EAA Chapter 75 just built a new 24 by 32 repair building at
>Oshkosh for the convention. Does that sound like we are not
>coming back? We have been doing emergency aircraft repair at
>the EAA convention since 1963. I have been doing it every year
>only since 1971.
For that, I'm proud of you and your chapter. Pardon me if I don't join
in. Although I've done quite a bit of work as a volunteer by having
flown 300+ kids in the Young Eagles program, I'm sure I don't want to
contribute to the wealth of an organization that's already doing well
on its own. I've already spent plenty of my own money doing the
one thing in EAA that really seems like a worthy program. Taking up
kids to introduce them to aviation is far more important to me. Maybe
I have my priorities wrong; but, I think you're going to have a tough
time convincing those kids otherwise.
>One of my volunteers flew up from New Mexico to help with the
>building. He flew back early to help finish it in time for the
>convention. I turned down another that would have flown in
>from Denver for just 2 days of work while we were building. As I
>said, I always have more good volunteers that I can use. Not
>coming back??? You have to be kidding.
No, Mr. Galley. I wish I was. I'm sure you'll have plenty of help in the
future because there will be plenty who will fill in the voids. However,
I think you must look at the attendance this year during the main
weekend and see that the drop must have been caused by
something out of the ordinary. One would have expected more
growth, not a 90K reduction. Those numbers didn't come from me. I
got them from a publication reporting on the event. I personally know
of several who did not attend this year because it was going to be
too expensive. Of those that I know who did go, most complained
about the event. Some of those will not be returning.
>P.S. You would not even be building an RV-6A if it wasn't for the
>good work of the EAA.
>Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>EAA volunteer for 28 continous years
Maybe not, sir. However, an organization sometimes forgets what its
mission is. In my very humble opinion, the EAA has. In the past, the
EAA was the glue that held the homebuilders together. Today, I'm
not so sure it is. That is my opinion; and, by damned, I'm going to
stick with it. In fact, to show my disapproval after having written
letters in the past and been ignored, I'm letting my membership in the
EAA end this month. That is the only way I know how to express my
concerns since I'm not an insider like you, Mr. Galley. I know you
can bend anyone's ear at EAA Hq. You've told me that. However,
the thousands of us out here who have written letters and have
gotten no answers have very few other ways of getting action. My
leaving the EAA is my last recourse.
Fellow listers, please excuse my not so tactful approach in this
matter. I get so tired of being told I don't know what I'm talking
about. That's why you've stopped seeing my name on this list very
often. As I've said before, we've lost a lot of good listers just
because of flaming by those who think they know more than we do.
I don't take what I put on this list lightly. I have very different feelings
about ACS, EAA, and Van's than many of you who hold them above
everything else. Unless they change, I'll maintain those feelings.
Jim Sears of KY
RV-6A N198JS (First flight real soon)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Amos Bechtel <abechtel(at)agctr.lsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Van's Instructions |
I'll toss in my comments on Van's instructions. When I started my -8 I
had almost no metal working experience outside of a little farm
machinery repair. (Which reminds me of the saying that engineers take
farmers' machinery innovations and make them light enough to be used by
mere mortals.) I am now well into my wings and find I don't use the
manual that much anymore. When I was working on the empenage I read and
reread the manual many times and then went and stared at the drawings a
while. There were a few rough spots but overall the manual was entirely
adequate and I found the drawings to be very good. Now I find that I
simply read through the manual and spend my time examining the
drawings. Other than some difficulty finding a detail now and then,
this works very well for me. I am just more comfortable with a set of
drawings than a detailed explanation. So I guess I am saying that I
find the manual quite adequate for my taste.
Amos
RV-8 slowwww build wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: -6 Type S Cowl |
Scott and others,
Many messages have been posted in the last few days regarding the quality of
the plans and instructions. Just a couple of quick points:
Having built a Long-EZ in the 80's, I have something to compare to. The RV
drawings are good, but the written instructions (except the emmpenage) are
marginal IMO. Are they adequate to get the job done? Sure, there are so
many flying. Can they be improved? You bet. I find the arguments against
step-by-step instructions unmoving. What's wrong with making it simpler to
follow? It's not going to stifle your creativity and you'll surely learn
just as much about building than you would otherwise. It didn't keep me
from learning how to build the Long. When dealing with something where
safety is a factor, I find it difficult to argue against more clarity.
Burt Rutan's instructions where step-by-step with a lot of drawings and
pictures. It wasn't professionally put together by any means, but it was
easy to follow and understand. I think just the proliferation of help lists
and supplemental instructions suggest that more could be done. Overall
though, you don't need to be an engineering graduate to understand the
drawings and instructions. Anyone with only a modicum of mechanical ability
can build one of these birds. The support (from the list and the factory)
are great.
Since it is probably not cost effective for Van to redo the instructions,
you might suggest that he enlist the aid of the many builders/flyers that
are out there. Maybe something can be done to use the fine work that
they've already put into the supplemental instructions. (My many thanks to
Frank Justice.) Or maybe Van can provide a list of Web addresses in the
instruction book as to where these "non-sanctioned", but helpful
instructions can be found?
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6
"Painting"
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com>
Date: Friday, September 10, 1999 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: -6 Type S Cowl
>
>
>>
>>Dont look too hard for instructions written by Van's guys on the type
>>S
>>cowl...if they were included, they would probably be useless like the
>>rest of
>>their manual....their picture (dwg) is truly worth a thousand of their
>>
>>words...
>>
>>yes...that's a bit caustic...but Van's documentation is the worst I
>>have ever
>>seen in any industry...(except a few translations from Taiwan).
>>
>-
>Yes, rather caustic and you didn't even sign your name!
>I will be expecting your copy of the construction manual in the mail next
>week since you think it is worthless (So I am assuming you are not using
>it to assemble your RV-6(A). :-)
>
>I have heard and read many testimonials of builders with experience
>constructing a large variety of complex projects from plans and manuals
>(even other brand kit planes), that thought the plans and manuals were
>quite good.
>Sure they can always be improved, and they have been. ( try building an
>RV-6 kit that is 10 years old without getting new plans and manuals).
>
>It just wouldn't be fair for the lurkers on the list that are sitting on
>the fence trying to decide if they can do this, to hear just one opinion
>and feel that without good instructions they would probably fail.
>
>Very few of the people that have built RV's were experts when they
>started (they only become that after they finished).
>
>Hoping to hear some other opinions (please be polite !).
>
>BTW... I guess I should be flattered, since many of the new drawings
>(like the one mentioned) are the result of I and some other new blood in
>the company. Sorry we can afford the time to rewrite or redraw every
>single page... we are to busy on top secret design projects.
>
>
>Scott McDaniels
>Former RV-6A owner
>North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
>These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
>not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinder troubles continued....... |
> In the meantime, my engine sits disassembled waiting for the cylinders.
Sometimes expensive new cylinders are the cheapest way to go.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heating the workshop... |
Go check the outlet vent on your dryer and see if you want what's
accumulating there going into your garage along with the humidity. I
think not unless you want a plane covered with lint.
Bill Von Dane wrote:
>
>
> Hi all...
>
> I just finished plumbing my workshop (garage) for air, and have a question
> about heat... I have already plumbed heat from the house furnace to the
> garage, but I was also thinking of venting the clothes dryer into the garage
> for additional heat... What is you take on this? Will I have a corrosion
> problem from the high humidity of the heat?
>
> Thanks for the advice!
>
> -Bill Von Dane
> -8A empennage on the way
> bvondane(at)atmel.com
> http://members.tripod.com/rv8tor
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
>
>This may sound like sour grapes but I want to know if it's just me or is
there
>something wrong when you take your airplane to a fly-in ( not Oshkosh or
>Sun-N-Fun ) and they charge you $7.00 to park your airplane. They also
>charged my passenger $7.00 for being there. Am I wrong to believe that
>they wouldn't have a fly-in if it weren't for the planes flying in. I get
the
>feeling I'm paying people to look at my airplane.
Well, I can talk about this with some authority since I was one of the
chairmen for the recent (yesterday) Golden West Fly-In at Castle AFB in
Merced.
First, I understand your feelings. You flew your airplane there for other
people to look at. You paid for fuel and you spent your time. You ought
to get in for free, right? Outwardly, it makes sense. On the other hand,
consider what was there for you to use and how it was paid for. Most
fly-ins are populated with people who fly in, not the general public.
(Sorry, the general public doesn't love aviation as much as we do.) There
were probably porta-potties there in case you "felt the need." There were
have been a PA system. If there was an airshow to attract the public,
someone had to pay for that. Even if the peformers worked for free, they
wanted fuel, oil, and someplace to sleep if they stayed overnight. There
may have been forum tents. Someone had to pay for those.
The bottom line is that it costs money to put on a fly-in. In the case of
one as big as Golden West, the cost runs to hundreds of thousands of
dollars. Volunteer labor can only do so much and the rest needs to be paid
for. That money has to come from somewhere. So, the people who put on the
fly-in ask you to pitch in to help pay for the stuff that the volunteers
couldn't do all by themselves. Did you enjoy being at the fly-in as much
as going to a movie? If so, the $7 was probably a reasonable price.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BumFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Blatant ad for Burlington fly in |
Listers! I am sending this list of forums for the Burlington fly in so
builders within driving or flying distance of Burlington, CO (east side of
Colorado, on I-70) can consider coming. These are all free.
Forum Schedule for Saturday, 25 Sep, 1999
0900 Larry Vetterman on RV exhaust and induction systems.
Larry is the foremost authority on RV matters in the Rocky
mountain area. He has built eleven airplanes, most of them RVs. He has made
his living in aviation all his life and has thousands of hours, most of them
behind four cylinder Lycomings. He can tell you all you need to know to
properly hook up all that stuff forward of the firewall, in that area where
Vans instructions get a little sparse.
1000 Robert Nuckolls, III, on Aircraft electrical system design
and construction.
Bob is a renowned design engineer who has been responsible for a
myriad of innovations in the airplane electrical world. He has been
published in all the aviation periodicals and is the author of a current book
on the subject of designing and building your own electrical system.
1100 John Stewart, Tips on construction techniques for the RV.
Johns talk will be at his hangar, due East of the main hangar.
John, a resident of Burlington, and owner of his own construction
company, is the builder and operator of an RV-6A, which has garnered more and
higher prizes than any other RV in the history of Rocky Mountain RVators. He
will be delivering his remarks at plane side in his hangar just east of the
registration area. He will be assisted by Doc Baker and his RV-6
1300 George Orndorff, on builder tips and assistance.
George is currently retired from a career of government work
and resides in Texas, where he operates his own business, supporting RV
builders from throughout the world. George is the best known face and voice
in the RV world, since virtually every builder has a copy of his video tapes
on the construction on RVs.
1400 Bob Brashear, on Engines and what to look out for.
Bob has been building engines since he was sixteen. He is now
over 21 and has just finished building his 32nd airplane. He has helped at
least fifty other builders, and rebuilt hundreds of engines.
All of these talks except John Stewartss , will be in the main hangar at
Burlington. Either in the airplane bays or in the lounge area. John swill
be conducted at his hangar which is to the east of the main hangar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
> I don't know if you know this but the people who stage the fly in, and all
> the volunteers who staff it also have to pay the $7.00.
>
Merle;
I have volunteered for the past two years at MERFI and have never had to pay. Did
I miss something?
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
Jim Sears,
I suppose I am one of those poor deluded "screwed volunteers", to use your
description. I am in charge of "Emergency Aircraft Repair" as a Chapter 75
member. I am not in charge of the mechanics at Oshkosh. Every volunteer I
have working at the facility is a member of EAA Chapter 75. It is our
Chapter's service project. I have about 100 members for our volunteer
pool. That's it. Some are certified mechanics, most are not. We assist
pilots with plane problems to return safely home. We have never "lost" a
plane out of our repair area. For a person that has never been to Oshkosh,
you ought to go just once so you can see what you continue to castigate in
your ignorance.
"Just listen to the volunteers who have
been screwed at Oshkosh all of these years." - Jim Sears
Yep! If they come early, they are forced to eat 3 good meals daily... FREE
They can be rewarded with FREE Convention passes.
Many get complementary camping passes. - FREE
Some use brand new loaned motorcycles to do their flight line jobs. - FREE
Others have to make do with a new loaned John Deere Gator to get about. - FREE
They force a brand new Ford extended cab Pickup on me. - FREE even the gas.
Several of my volunteers stay FREE in the air-conditioned bunk house with
color TV.
Our facility has phone with a cell phone for me. Boy! do I feel screwed
having to carry a cell phone... FREE!
We have radios to keep in touch with problems on the flight line. - FREE
All volunteers have free snacks and drinks delivered to them at their work
station 4 or 5 times every convention day. Should I say FREE cause it
comes without standing in line, without cost to the volunteer? Such a
screwing!
There is a FREE wind down catered party, More like a buffet banquet, FREE
drinks and finger food.
Then after the convention is over they open the meal line for those that
stay to finish closing down. - FREE
If you come real early, you can camp in the volunteer's camping section
with your camper, and have full hook ups. But you have to volunteer your
time and talents.
"Just listen to the volunteers who have
been screwed at Oshkosh all of these years." - Jim Sears
Now for why things cost money at Oshkosh. I seriously doubt that the
magazines with a membership would be as inexpensive without the convention.
I certainly hope that you take advantage of the Tech Counselor, and Flight
Advisor programs. These have been shown to save builders their planes and
their lives. They are FREE!
Where does the money from for these very worthwhile programs. You guessed
it. Some of the money earned at the convention supports these programs. It
also supports the "Young Eagles" which you indicate you have supported. It
supports the Museum, its maintenance, and growth. It supports an excellent
aviation library that is still growing. It supports the Pioneer Airport as
well as the restoration of many planes. It also supports workshop and
forums FREE to the conventioneer.
The EAA also has an excellent government programs section. This area can
and will go to bat with FAA problems and straighten out difficulties. I
probably have missed an important mission, but I'm really not an "insider."
I am a volunteer just like the several hundred that it takes to run the
convention. Even Sharon Poberezny (Tom's wife) is an unpaid volunteer.
You see Jim, One cannot change an organization by negative comments and
attacks from the outside. Only the people on the "inside", the volunteers
can make improvements. That is why I have a "brick" in the "Eagle
Hangar!!" Now I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination as I am a
retired school teacher. But by sharing my talents with EAA, I am giving
them a positive boost. Giving EAA something that their money can't buy, my
time! The EAA on the other hand helped me guide my kids into Aviation. Son
is an engineer with Hughes Satellite. Daughter is an Airforce Academy
engineering graduate and is currently a Major in the USFA.
Cy Galley - Editor of EAA Chapter 75's newsletter for over 12 years without
missing a month. See it at....I suppose I am one of those poor deluded
"screwed volunteers", to use you description. I am in charge of "Emergency
Aircraft Repair" as a Chapter 75 member. I am not in charge of the
mechanics at Oshkosh. Every volunteer I have working at the facility is a
member of EAA Chapter 75. It is our Chapter's service project. I have
about 100 members for our volunteer pool. That's it. Some are certified
mechanics, most are not. We assist pilots with plane problems to return
safely home. We have never "lost" a plane out of our repair area. For a
person that has never been to Oshkosh, you ought to go just once so you can
see what you continue to castigate in your ignorance.
"Just listen to the volunteers who have
been screwed at Oshkosh all of these years." - Jim Sears
Yep! If they come early, they are forced to eat 3 good meals daily... Free!
They can be rewarded with free Convention passes.
Many get complementary camping passes.
Some use brand new loaned motorcycles to do their flight line jobs
Others have to make do with a new loaned John Deere Gator to get about.
They force a brand new Ford extended cab Pickup on me.
Several of my volunteers stay FREE in the air-conditioned bunk house with
color TV.
Our facility has phone with a cell phone for me. Boy! do I feel screwed
having to carry a cell phone... FREE!
We have radios to keep in touch with problems on the flight line.
All volunteers have free snacks and drinks delivered to them at their work
station 4 or 5 times every convention day. Should I say FREE cause it
comes without standing in line, without cost to the volunteer? Such a
screwing!
There is a free wind down catered party, More like a buffet banquet, Free
drinks and finger food.
Then after the convention is over they open the meal line for those that
stay to finish closing down.
If you come real early, you can camp in the volunteer's camping section
with your camper, and have full hook ups. But you have to volunteer your
time and talents.
"Just listen to the volunteers who have
been screwed at Oshkosh all of these years." - Jim Sears
Now for why things cost money at Oshkosh. I seriously doubt that the
magazines with a membership would be as inexpensive without the convention.
I certainly hope that you take advantage of the Tech Counselor, and Flight
Advisor programs. These have been shown to save builders their planes and
their lives.
Where does the money from for these very worthwhile programs. You guessed
it. Some of the money earned at the convention supports these programs. It
also supports the "Young Eagles" which you indicate you have supported. It
supports the Museum, its maintenance, and growth. It supports an excellent
aviation library that is still growing. It supports the Pioneer Airport as
well as the restoration of many planes. The EAA also has an excellent
government programs section. This area can and will go to bat with FAA
problems and straighten out difficulties. I probably have missed an
important mission, but I'm really not an "insider." I am a volunteer just
like the several hundred that it takes to run the convention. Even Sharon
Poberezny (Tom's wife) is an unpaid volunteer.
You see Jim, One cannot change an organization by negative comments and
attacks from the outside. Only the people on the "inside", the volunteers
can make improvements. That is why I have a "brick" in the "Eagle
Hangar!!" Now I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination as I am a
retired school teacher. But by sharing my talents with EAA, I am giving
them a positive boost. Giving EAA something that their money can't buy, my
time! The EAA on the other hand helped me guide my kids into Aviation. Son
is an engineer with Hughes Satellite, Daughter is an Airforce Academy
engineering graduate and is currently a Major in the USFA.
Cy Galley - Editor of Chapter 75's newsletter for over 12 years without
missing a month. See it at... http://members.tripod.com/~EAA_Chapter_75/
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
Visit our web site at... http://www.bellanca-championclub.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heating the workshop... |
> What did you do in the way of a paint booth for priming parts?
>
Use a lot of caution when painting in a heated garage. Even the pilot light
must be off.
I found an auto repair shop that let me prime after the body men all left in
their paint booth. Even in January, it was toasty warm and vented. The shop
owner said no charge, but I gave him $20 for an hour of his heat, lights, and
compressed air.
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)ee.cit.ac.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: -6 Type S Cowl |
"Randy J. Pflanzer" wrote:
> Since it is probably not cost effective for Van to redo the instructions,
> you might suggest that he enlist the aid of the many builders/flyers that
September 07, 1999 - September 12, 1999
RV-Archive.digest.vol-gx