RV-Archive.digest.vol-gz
September 20, 1999 - September 27, 1999
you all the prices. The prices include rack and connector.
Gulf Coast -- $ 1195
Chief-- $ 1159
South East Aerospace-- $ 1050
Aerosystems--no reply
Aerotronics-- no reply
I would sure try South East Aero for any future needs. The entire
transaction was by email.
Email address is
Southeast Aerospace and the guys name
was Joe Braddock in sales.
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <tvelvick(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | F670 side skins on rv-6a |
I have the forward side skins clecoed on and holes and slots finished. I
need to now trim all of the excess aluminum off around the edges of the
side skins. I was looking for the easiest way to accomplish this task. If
I trim close to the final line and then hand file it down, it looks like a
lot of hours of filing.
Regards,
Tom Velvick
Peoria, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Adrian Chick" <adrianchick(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: left elevator bottom stiffner location |
I believe there's a glitch on the "phantom" drawing. I used the measurement
called out but scooted the stiffener outboard so that the measurement was to
the inboard side of the stiffener instead of the outboard side of the
stiffener. I installed electric trim with no problems.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Baxter <robbax(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 8:12 PM
Subject: RV-List: left elevator bottom stiffner location
>
> Greetings listers
>
> I have a question regarding drwg 4PP. I am locating stiffners on the
> left elevator and DWG 4PP shows a "long" stiffner located at 5 1/8" from
the
> edge of the inboard skin(bottom side). On the drawing this is depicted
> outboard of where the trim cable slot will be on the upper side of the
> elevator.
> 5 1/8" in from the edge puts the bottom stiffner (depicted as phantom
lines
> on the drawing) right in line with the trim cable slot.
> Will this cause interference with the trim cable? Is the dimension
> wrong? When in doubt I always refer to the drawings (cases of
> manual/cookbook confusion) and this is the first occasion I've not gotten
> the "warm fuzzy" from the drawings.
> Any and all help appreciated.
> thanks in advance
>
> Rob Baxter
> Sarnia RV-8 80970
> elevators
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
>
>Don't forget the RV8 wing failure...it has a new spar design with a
>hugh
>cut-outS for lightning holes. The failed -8 wing design hasn't been
>fully
>explained as of this date. All tests & analysis said basically " it
>should'nt
>of failed " ...........but it failed & everyone seems to have
>forgotten that. I
>think a -3 wing building is in your future.
>Don't Frankstein stitch -4 , -6, -8 , or -9 wings to your
>-3.........BESIDES
>ALL THE WORK WHO WOULD BUY YOUR -3 WHEN IT COMES TIME TO SELL ????
>
>
It appears that you are un-aware of what the original poster was speaking
of.
There is a replacement wing available for already completed and already
under construction RV-3's (also being supplied in current RV-3 kits),
that uses the same design as the RV-8.
BTW... the location of lightning holes in the RV-8 wing spar were in no
way related to failure location of the spar.
Also the testing and analysis did not basically say that the wing "should
not have failed", it said it will not fail before 9 G's when an RV-8 is
flown within the limitation of its aerobatic gross weight (1550 lbs).
We do not know what the gross weight was of N58RV at the time of failure,
or how many G's were pulled in the situation that caused the accident
(unless you know something that no one else does ?).
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A nose wheel shimmy |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
>I friend of mine has purchased a ready built -6A. During a cross wind
>landing the other day, he experienced a pretty significant nose wheel
>shimmy. I really don't know anything about a -6A, but he says the
>shimmy
>damper arrangement is set to the proper torque. Granted there are
>lots of
>variables involved in solving this problem (tire pressure, wheel pant
>CG,
>etc). Do any of you -6A experts have a good method of reducing the
>likelihood of nose wheel shimmy?
>
3 main things that I have found to be factors in nose wheel shimmy.
Dry (no lube) compression washers.
Proper break out force adjustment.
Proper tire pressure.
Tire pressure is one item that many 6A flyers don't consider.
If the tire is over inflated it reduces the amount of tire that contacts
the runway surface (because the tire has more of a round cross section)
I usually recommend that RV-6A owners find some smooth concrete that is
level. Over inflate the nose tire to about 30 PSI. Then slowly release
air until the entire tread area acrossed the full width of the tire just
comes into contact with the concrete. This will give you the widest
possible tread contact foot print which adds rotating resistance to the
tire and helping to reduce the tendency.
Then measure the tire pressure and keep your nose wheel tire adjusted to
that value.
This needs to be determined for each airplane because of differences in
the amount of weight carried by the nose wheel on different airplanes
(different engine/prop., equipment, empty weight, etc.)
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Canopy attachment RV-4 |
Fellow Listers:
I am in the process of attaching my canopy to the canopy frame. The initial
holes in the plexi and the tubular frame have been drilled and the first
preliminary fit using clecoes was perfect. I had originally intended to
attach the canopy using #6 SS screws and rivnuts instead of pop rivets.
But, I
now find this doesn't work because after installing the rivnuts to the
tubular frame at the front (where the front canopy skirt is), the thickness
of the rivnuts positions the canopy forward slightly so that all the holes
to
the rear are not aligned. How can I bee this stupid??
I have tapped the #6 screw holes from the front
skirt aft and now will have to drill out the rivnuts at the front. I will
then have 3/16" holes that need to be filled, drilled, and tapped if I want
to continue the idea of using screws and not pop rivets.
Any ideas on a super strong, bullet proof filler that I can use on these
holes that can be drilled and tapped. This evening I am testing JB Weld on
a test piece and see how it works in the morning.
Also has anyone attached their canopy using just #6 screws tapped only into
the tubular frame (along with some type of thread locker)? Again, all this
instead of pop rivets.
Doug
===========
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F670 side skins on rv-6a |
Tom,
I think you got the right idea. I used my die grinder and a thin cutoff
wheel. Got it real close then used my vixon file. Wasn't too bad.
Larry
>I have the forward side skins clecoed on and holes and slots finished. I
>need to now trim all of the excess aluminum off around the edges of the
>side skins. I was looking for the easiest way to accomplish this task. If
>I trim close to the final line and then hand file it down, it looks like a
>lot of hours of filing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics dealers |
It is not like Aerotronics to not give a reply. Call and ask for Martin
before you buy anything. I checked the same shops as well, and found that
Aerotronics has a "no haggle" lowest price. My Garmin GNC250XL GPS/COMM
was $2500. The closest bid was from South East at $2700. Others were as
high as $2800.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
-----Original Message-----
From: John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 1:59 AM
Subject: RV-List: Avionics dealers
>
>My Collins transponder that I purchased used started kicking thje
>breaker and I went shopping for a King KT-76A. I thought I would show
>you all the prices. The prices include rack and connector.
>Gulf Coast -- $ 1195
>Chief-- $ 1159
>South East Aerospace-- $ 1050
>
>Aerosystems--no reply
>Aerotronics-- no reply
>I would sure try South East Aero for any future needs. The entire
>transaction was by email.
>Email address is
> Southeast Aerospace and the guys name
>was Joe Braddock in sales.
>
>John Kitz
>N721JK
>Ohio
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A nose wheel shimmy |
>I usually recommend that RV-6A owners find some smooth concrete that is
>level. Over inflate the nose tire to about 30 PSI. Then slowly release
>air until the entire tread area acrossed the full width of the tire just
>comes into contact with the concrete. This will give you the widest
>possible tread contact foot print which adds rotating resistance to the
>tire and helping to reduce the tendency.
>
>Scott McDaniels
Scott, I am constantly amazed at how knowledgeable and helpful your replies
to the list are. I just wanted to thank you for staying on the list and
helping out with your responses. They are appreciated and filed for future
reference, if I ever get my rv-6a done. Now if you would just reconsider
moving back to Phoenix, we would make you a tech counselor for our EAA
chapter. How about it?
Regards,
Tom Velvick
Peoria, AZ
rv-6a skinning fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Garrett" <garrett(at)thesocket.com> |
Hey All,
Just started the Vert Stab and found that the VS-608 stiffener pre-drilled
holes do not line up with the spar channel VS-603 holes(off by 1/2" in some
places). What I'm really wondering is if I have the wrong part. The
stiffener label on the part I have actually says VS-808, and I'm wondering
if I have the stiffener for the RV8. Has anyone else:
1. run into the problem of holes not lining up?, and...or,
2. received parts for another RV?
Help, Stuck, done for the night.
Matt
RV6 tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinner(at)vcn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F670 side skins on rv-6a |
>I have the forward side skins clecoed on and holes and slots finished. I
>need to now trim all of the excess aluminum off around the edges of the
>side skins. I was looking for the easiest way to accomplish this task. If
>I trim close to the final line and then hand file it down, it looks like a
>lot of hours of filing.
>
>Regards,
>Tom Velvick
>Peoria, AZ
Tom,
The best thing I've found for rapid and accurate removal is a "Sand Cat"
(Skill) hand-held belt sander. However, after posting this tip to the
list a few years ago, there were several listers who reported that this
model was no longer made. It was smaller and lighter than most of the
hand-held belt sanders that we see for sale, now. If you can find a
lightweight hand-held belt sander, I think you would find many uses for it
while building. After sanding down to the line, I clean up the edge with
the "V" deburr tool. I also noticed, when cleaning up ribs & bulkheads
that if I lightly "touched up" the edge with the belt sander with a finer
grit belt that the doble edge deburr tool cleaned up the edge much better
and faster.
Bob Skinner 1995 RV6 (sold) Buffalo, WY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A nose wheel shimmy |
In line with what Scott says (below), if the nose wheel touches down only a
light amount, there is less tread contact. My Deb shakes a bit if
touchdown is too fast or too light. I wait till it can no longer be held
off then shove the yoke forward. Dismantling the shimmy dampner and
reassembling it correctly fixed what several A&P mechanics couldn't. They
were doing a *BIG* mechanic no-no - putting it back together the way it
came apart instead of looking at the book.
hal - (yes the Deb is still for sale.)
>3 main things that I have found to be factors in nose wheel shimmy.
>
>Dry (no lube) compression washers.
>
>Proper break out force adjustment.
>
>Proper tire pressure.
>
>Tire pressure is one item that many 6A flyers don't consider.
>
>If the tire is over inflated it reduces the amount of tire that contacts
>the runway surface (because the tire has more of a round cross section)
Hal Kempthorne - SJC
RV6a at SCK - Baffling
Debonair N6134V for sale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A J DeMarzo" <aerome(at)onramp.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics dealers |
I hope that wasn't a recent price! My hangar mate just last week picked up
his Garmin for $2250. The price on these items are dropping like flies.
The King can be had for as little as $1995. I guess they're thinking that
everyone will just have to buy the color screens! Good for those that
haven't bought yet, bad for the resale of those looking to upgrade.
Al
"Paul Besing"
>
>It is not like Aerotronics to not give a reply. Call and ask for Martin
>before you buy anything. I checked the same shops as well, and found that
>Aerotronics has a "no haggle" lowest price. My Garmin GNC250XL GPS/COMM
>was $2500. The closest bid was from South East at $2700. Others were as
>high as $2800.
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>http://members.home.net/rv8er
>Finish Kit
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "riveter" <riveter(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Aileron Gap Seal |
Listers,
I got word from Van's that the aileron gap seal gap needs to be 1/4 inch
(1/8 absolute minimum) and uniform from side to side. This critical
dimension is not in the RV4 plans nor could I find it in the manual. Anyway,
I have to remove and replace a gap seal because the gap is too small.
This means drilling out over 50 rivets, half of which are CS4-4 pop rivets
in the aft spar. Then there is the problem of transferring the holes to the
new gap seal. Also, I will have to get all the rivet bits and shavings out
of the wing afterward.
I have never drilled out a pop rivet, but it seems the stem in the middle
may cause problems when drilling. Is there a trick to it? How about
transferring the holes to the new gap seal?
Mark McGee
Upstate NY
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <"craig-rv4"@http:/www.worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy attachment RV-4 |
Doug Weiler wrote:
>
>
> Fellow Listers:
>
> I am in the process of attaching my canopy to the canopy frame. The initial
> holes in the plexi and the tubular frame have been drilled and the first
> preliminary fit using clecoes was perfect. I had originally intended to
> attach the canopy using #6 SS screws and rivnuts instead of pop rivets.
> But, I
> now find this doesn't work because after installing the rivnuts to the
> tubular frame at the front (where the front canopy skirt is), the thickness
> of the rivnuts positions the canopy forward slightly so that all the holes
> to
> the rear are not aligned. How can I bee this stupid??
>
> I have tapped the #6 screw holes from the front
> skirt aft and now will have to drill out the rivnuts at the front. I will
> then have 3/16" holes that need to be filled, drilled, and tapped if I want
> to continue the idea of using screws and not pop rivets.
>
> Any ideas on a super strong, bullet proof filler that I can use on these
> holes that can be drilled and tapped. This evening I am testing JB Weld on
> a test piece and see how it works in the morning.
>
> Also has anyone attached their canopy using just #6 screws tapped only into
> the tubular frame (along with some type of thread locker)? Again, all this
> instead of pop rivets.
>
> Doug
>
Doug
the soft pop rivets worked great for my canopy. I think the rivnuts
make something simple very difficult with little or no benefit.
Craig Hiers
Tallahassee,FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shirley Harding" <shirleyh(at)starwon.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Verticle Stab |
Matt, as I understand it the rudder for the 8 is a bit different - I didn't
have that problem with my 6 so may be it is the wrong part.
Shirley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Seal |
Mark,
Concerning taking "Pop' rivets out. The trick is to remove the center
stem before drilling. Taking a small nose punch (like those use to set
finishing nails, which often has a concave head) and centering it on the
stem gently tap the stem out of the pop rivet. This works best when the pop
rivet is in a thicker material such as the spar web. Once the stem is out
you can drill it out. As you recognize, failure to remove the stem will
almost certainly cause the drill bit to enlager the hole (at best).
Hope this helps
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW
Matthews NC
>
> Listers,
>
> I got word from Van's that the aileron gap seal gap needs to be 1/4 inch
> (1/8 absolute minimum) and uniform from side to side. This critical
> dimension is not in the RV4 plans nor could I find it in the manual.
Anyway,
> I have to remove and replace a gap seal because the gap is too small.
>
> This means drilling out over 50 rivets, half of which are CS4-4 pop rivets
> in the aft spar. Then there is the problem of transferring the holes to
the
> new gap seal. Also, I will have to get all the rivet bits and shavings out
> of the wing afterward.
>
> I have never drilled out a pop rivet, but it seems the stem in the middle
> may cause problems when drilling. Is there a trick to it? How about
> transferring the holes to the new gap seal?
>
> Mark McGee
> Upstate NY
> RV4 Wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christensen, Peter" <pchristensen(at)sel.com> |
Matt, it sure seems like you've got the wrong part, but only a call to Vans
will confirm that. There are lots of parts in the RV-6/6A kits that have
"4" designations, since there are many common parts with the RV-4, but I
have not seen any parts in my RV-6 kit with an "8" designation. Vans is
staffed with humans, so they make mistakes once in a while. Of the two
peices for the trim tab horn, one of mine was for the manual trim, the other
for the electric (they are not compatible). Vans quickly sent me the
correct part at no cost. Give 'em a call.
Peter Christensen
RV-6A Wings
Pittsburgh, PA
>
> Hey All,
>
> Just started the Vert Stab and found that the VS-608 stiffener
> pre-drilled
> holes do not line up with the spar channel VS-603 holes(off by 1/2" in
> some
> places). What I'm really wondering is if I have the wrong part. The
> stiffener label on the part I have actually says VS-808, and I'm wondering
>
> if I have the stiffener for the RV8. Has anyone else:
>
> 1. run into the problem of holes not lining up?, and...or,
>
> 2. received parts for another RV?
>
> Help, Stuck, done for the night.
>
> Matt
> RV6 tail
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Metal spinner for Hartzell prop |
Listers:
Another question: does Hartzell (or anyone else) make a metal spinner to
fit the 180 hp C/S prop. I know Sensenich makes metal spinners for their
props, but I can't recall if I have seen a metal spinner on a 180 hp
Hartzell on an RV.
Doug
===========
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Aileron Gap Seal |
You can use a broken stem from one of the very pop rivets you want to remove
as a tool to drive (that means to "tap") the center stem out of the pop
rivet.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
RV-6A
-----Original Message-----
Concerning taking "Pop' rivets out. The trick is to
remove the center
stem before drilling. Taking a small nose punch (like those
use to set
finishing nails, which often has a concave head) and
centering it on the
stem gently tap the stem out of the pop rivet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Why Not Paint Before Flight, was: Temporary paint |
>
> It is a given that I will fly my -6 before it is painted,
Why?
I mean, OK - you want to make sure there's no rigging problems the
repair or tweaking of which would mess up a high $$ paint job.
But what are the odds?
Hereabouts I notice a lot of aircraft coming out of the shop ready to
fly, paint and all. Don't know how many later tear up their paint job
tweaking the aircraft.
Who out there has regreted painting before flying?
Do you believe you are in the majority or minority?
Could you have avoided the problem?
I'm a long ways from the decision, and always willing to learn from the
mistakes of others.
:)
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Wings
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Seal |
Mark,
The pop rivets are usually not difficult to drill. Don't worry about
enlarging the holes because you don't need/want to use the old holes.
Put the new seal in place and drill new holes between the old ones.
You will look back on this episode later and realize it was but a minor
tribulation! :-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 18.5 hrs....)
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
---------------------
riveter wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
>
> I got word from Van's that the aileron gap seal gap needs to be 1/4 inch
> (1/8 absolute minimum) and uniform from side to side. This critical
> dimension is not in the RV4 plans nor could I find it in the manual. Anyway,
> I have to remove and replace a gap seal because the gap is too small.
>
> This means drilling out over 50 rivets, half of which are CS4-4 pop rivets
> in the aft spar. Then there is the problem of transferring the holes to the
> new gap seal. Also, I will have to get all the rivet bits and shavings out
> of the wing afterward.
>
> I have never drilled out a pop rivet, but it seems the stem in the middle
> may cause problems when drilling. Is there a trick to it? How about
> transferring the holes to the new gap seal?
>
> Mark McGee
> Upstate NY
> RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: F670 side skins on rv-6a |
>Tom,
>
> The best thing I've found for rapid and accurate removal is a "Sand Cat"
>(Skill) hand-held belt sander. However, after posting this tip to the
>list a few years ago, there were several listers who reported that this
>model was no longer made. It was smaller and lighter than most of the
>hand-held belt sanders that we see for sale, now. If you can find a
>lightweight hand-held belt sander, I think you would find many uses for it
>while building.
>
>Bob Skinner 1995 RV6 (sold) Buffalo, WY
I was one of those guys that was unable to find a "Sand Cat". I ended up
with a pneumatic belt sander from Harbor Freight. Uses a 1" X 21" belt,
weighs about 1.5 pounds, and cost less than $50. Very easy to use and
removes metal quickly and accurately. One of the best tools I own.
Thanks Bob,
Mike Wills
RV-4 canopy
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | steve.nichols(at)stoneweb.com |
| Subject: | RV-9 tail kit delivery? |
Listers,
I am posting this for a friend who is waiting on a -9 tail kit and is
wondering if anyone has heard a delivery date. I remember a post by someone
three or four weeks ago that stated a 3 week delivery.
Thanks,
Steve Nichols
RV-4 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Canopy attachment RV-4 |
> Any ideas on a super strong, bullet proof filler that I can use on these
>holes that can be drilled and tapped. This evening I am testing JB Weld on
>a test piece and see how it works in the morning.
>>
>Also has anyone attached their canopy using just #6 screws tapped only into
>the tubular frame (along with some type of thread locker)? Again, all this
>instead of pop rivets.
If you cruise the Archives you will find bad things assiciated with LocTite
and Plexiglass. That includes trying to lock the rivnuts in place with it.
JB Weld is good in some places but not in others; using it like you
describe, I wouldn't trust it. The canopy parting company with the airplane
because some untested attach method failed could make your eyes water. NOT
that that would happen. It would probably just be a series of the screws
working themselves lose, and THEN how are you going to get them to stay in?
Why not use a method that has been tried and works: the rivets. It is kinda
freaky to squeeze that rivet until the mandril !!!SNAPS!!! but it has been
done hundreds of times without problems. Use the pulled rivets: the canopy
will go on in a snap (!).
I used 4 screws on my canopy: one on each corner of the front
canopy-to-glass fairing to secure it there and two at the very back of the
canopy to attach the canopy skirts. They are held in place with nuts. Really
cute little nuts.
Just some thoughts............
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
RV-4 canopy: one of the best looking canopy designs on an airplane...and
just WAIT until you are looking out of it flying; the visibility......oh,
never mind.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Why Not Paint Before Flight, was: Temporary paint |
I'm not going to paint mine before I fly it. The only reason for that is
that I'm not going to paint it at all. Oh yes it will be painted...but not
by me. My hangar at the airport is far too dusty and more than that I want
absolutely no exposure to any of the chemicals used in the painting process.
Which is also the reason I won't paint in my garage...don't want to expose
the family to the fumes either. Paint booth or not.
RV-4 fuselage
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
svanarts(at)unionsafe.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Thompson [mailto:grobdriver(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 6:35 AM
Subject: RV-List: Why Not Paint Before Flight, was: Temporary paint
>
> It is a given that I will fly my -6 before it is painted,
Why?
I mean, OK - you want to make sure there's no rigging problems the
repair or tweaking of which would mess up a high $$ paint job.
But what are the odds?
Hereabouts I notice a lot of aircraft coming out of the shop ready to
fly, paint and all. Don't know how many later tear up their paint job
tweaking the aircraft.
Who out there has regreted painting before flying?
Do you believe you are in the majority or minority?
Could you have avoided the problem?
I'm a long ways from the decision, and always willing to learn from the
mistakes of others.
:)
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Wings
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | firewall insulation and noise dampening recommendations? |
Does anyone have any good comparisons between the "Isodamp" product found on
page 299 in the latest AS catalog and the firewall insulation/soundproofing
sold by GBI?
My neighbor, Tom Benton, has the isodamp and is happy with it. How about
experience with GBI product?
Bernie Kerr, finishing details 6A, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
My comment on the lightning holes in the wing were not about the location but
rather on the SIZE of the lightning holes in the -8.......they go up to the spar
caps and aside to the rib area..... there have been no failures on the -6 or the
-4 wing like the -8 wing. The eye wittness report (at the -8 accident)
reported straight & level flight. We do know the gross weight ....add up the
passanger weight & look at the w&b data sheet for the aircraft. All we know for
certain is that it failed & it is of the new design & all the experts said it
should not have failed..I do not know something more like was suggested. The g
question asside... of all the -6 & -4 flying.....why has not there been a
simular wing failure ? Surely the flight attribute(s) that caused the -8 wing
to fail has been duplicated at least once with all the hundreds of thousands of
hours of accumulated flight hours of the -6 & -4 type rv's....... Keep in mind
this is a opinion but in my book the -8 wing still has a question mark next to
it
smcdaniels(at)juno.com on 09/20/99 11:08:37 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: New Wings?
>
>Don't forget the RV8 wing failure...it has a new spar design with a
>hugh
>cut-outS for lightning holes. The failed -8 wing design hasn't been
>fully
>explained as of this date. All tests & analysis said basically " it
>should'nt
>of failed " ...........but it failed & everyone seems to have
>forgotten that. I
>think a -3 wing building is in your future.
>Don't Frankstein stitch -4 , -6, -8 , or -9 wings to your
>-3.........BESIDES
>ALL THE WORK WHO WOULD BUY YOUR -3 WHEN IT COMES TIME TO SELL ????
>
>
It appears that you are un-aware of what the original poster was speaking
of.
There is a replacement wing available for already completed and already
under construction RV-3's (also being supplied in current RV-3 kits),
that uses the same design as the RV-8.
BTW... the location of lightning holes in the RV-8 wing spar were in no
way related to failure location of the spar.
Also the testing and analysis did not basically say that the wing "should
not have failed", it said it will not fail before 9 G's when an RV-8 is
flown within the limitation of its aerobatic gross weight (1550 lbs).
We do not know what the gross weight was of N58RV at the time of failure,
or how many G's were pulled in the situation that caused the accident
(unless you know something that no one else does ?).
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Why Not Paint Before Flight, was: Temporary paint |
> >
> > It is a given that I will fly my -6 before it is painted,
>
>Why?
>
>I mean, OK - you want to make sure there's no rigging problems the
>repair or tweaking of which would mess up a high $$ paint job.
>But what are the odds?
>
>Hereabouts I notice a lot of aircraft coming out of the shop ready to
>fly, paint and all. Don't know how many later tear up their paint job
>tweaking the aircraft.
>
>Who out there has regreted painting before flying?
>
>Do you believe you are in the majority or minority?
>
>Could you have avoided the problem?
>
>I'm a long ways from the decision, and always willing to learn from the
>mistakes of others.
I was originally planning to have it painted before first flight. Since
there have been some issues with high oil temps here in the high and hot New
Mexico area, I may have to make some cowl mods. So, I want all the hacking
and chopping to be done BEFORE that expensive paint job is done. Also, if I
have to make a stab incidence change, the tail fairing might have to get
tweaked. Yet another opportunity to muck up the paint.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Canopy attachment RV-4 |
I used threaded collars ( basically riv-nut blanks that are NOT pulled with the
piller) on the canopy frame. Be careful with a thread locker (loctite) because
of the crazing. I used Poly Fiber epoxy as the fillet material. It sands well
&
is epoxy based. JB weld hardens like iron & is very hard to sand-when compaired
to Poly Fiber. AS far as sealing the threads on your #6's...the Poly Fiber oozed
into the threaded collars so I don't have a loose screw ( maybe in other
endevers in life) so to speak. Finally- before I applied the first coat of Poly
Fiber (and after I placed the screws in the canopy & frame) I wheeled the
airplane in to the sun & let it cook up for about 3 hours in the noon day sun.
This (I think ) releaved any stress areas. I let the plexiglass canopy
expand & shrink at least once before I applied the Epoxy. I borrowed dads'
clip on-flip-up polarized sun glasses & viewed the plexi in many different
angles in indirect sub light & saw many stress areas with the polarizing
glasses. After the "sun" treatment & heating/cooling cycle the next day in the
hanger I could not detect any stress areas with the polarizing sun glassesusing
the same lighting & viewing technique..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
| Subject: | autopilot/turn coordinator |
I am waiting on my RV-6A-QB kit to arrive in november and want to install a
autopilot of some sort but not something for IFR. Has anyone out there had
experence with a company called "Navaid Devices Inc." ? Navaid sent a very
nice and honest flyer saying their product was for the kit market only and
was not to be used for IFR approaches. COST $1300.00 !!!!! Coments good or
bad for this product ?
Tom Ervin
N362CT
(reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinner(at)vcn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Temporary paint |
Larry,
I would vote for either painting before flight or flying unpainted. If
you were to use just a primer (without sealing) you would get a lot of dirt
and grime imbedded in the primer. Not good for later adhesion. With a
seal coat over the primer, you would have a harder surface which would need
to be roughened and cleaned very well to assure adhesion of additional
layers. I can't help but think that with the method that you are
considering that you would end up with a heavier paint job than if the
plane was painted in the conventional manner. Whatever top coats you apply
would need to be from the same company to assure compatability. The best
adhesion for a lasting paint job will have the paint job done, step by step
from cleaning the bare alumimum to final top coat. This should be the
lightest job as well.
I wouldn't think that you would have to worry about corrosion during the
test flight phase, even if 40 hours. When we painted my six, we scrubbed
the airpane with soap & water with Scotchbrite pads, twice and rinsed
thoroughly. The S.B. pretty well cleans up the metal and gives a nice
surface for paint bonding. After 4 years and 470 hours, there were no
problems with the paint job and the plane looked good as new.
I flew my six, unpainted for the 40 hour test period and then flew it to
the paint shop. I didn't have any "tweaking" to do on the plane that would
have harmed a paint job had the airplane been painted. I did squeeze the
trailing edge of an aileron to correct a wing heavy condition but I think
this could be done without harming a paint job. I know that have been some
RVs where the owners had to change the incidence of the horizontal
stabilizer. This could possibly harm a paint job with all of the "tool
work" being done around the tail and the fabrication of a new empenage
fairing but I'd bet this happens on rare occasions. It would be interesing
if flying RVers would respond to tell if they had any tweaking to do on
their airplanes that damaged an already painted RV.
Bob Skinner 1995 RV6 (sold) Buffalo, WY
>Greg,
> I have been thinking along the same lines and dropped by my local
>DuPont shop to ask about keeping the metal protected for quit a while,
>and then what to do when it came time to paint. As I see my problem, I
>can protect the metal with Martin Senoir 7022 or varithane primer inside
>and out. But, these are not sealer's and wont do so good a job against
>corrosion, so says the paint people.
>So I came up with this. I'll use 3812S reducer to clean up what has to be
>prepped. Spray cans for the interior, Veriprime for the exterior and
>Chromabase 1986S
>to seal it. That ( I think ) should protect it from corrosion forever and
>provide a sealed, repairable, base on which to put a base coat or a top
>coat. That's my plan so far. Please don't take this as cut in stone as I
>haven't done any painting before and this stuff, to me, is pretty
>complicated.
>HTH Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Why Not Paint Before Flight, was: Temporary paint |
I am at the painting part of the project. A few thoughts:
For me, there are two "modes" to this hobby; the "building" mode and the
"flying" mode. I recently finished dismantling the structures in order to
apply paint (e.g. wings, empennage, controls, canopy,etc.) I almost didn't
want to do it because I had everything all hooked up, rigged, and working.
If I had flown it, I probably wouldn't have taken it apart again. It's not
fun and it's another opportunity to ding things up.
I much prefer to roll it out to the airport in as close to completed fashion
as possible. Once I wear the grin, I'm not going to want to stop. I figure
that any individual part that may need to be repainted, like the cowling,
will be no big deal.
But, to each their own.
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6
"Painting"
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Denk <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Why Not Paint Before Flight, was: Temporary paint
>
>
>> >
>> > It is a given that I will fly my -6 before it is painted,
>>
>>Why?
>>
>>I mean, OK - you want to make sure there's no rigging problems the
>>repair or tweaking of which would mess up a high $$ paint job.
>>But what are the odds?
>>
>>Hereabouts I notice a lot of aircraft coming out of the shop ready to
>>fly, paint and all. Don't know how many later tear up their paint job
>>tweaking the aircraft.
>>
>>Who out there has regreted painting before flying?
>>
>>Do you believe you are in the majority or minority?
>>
>>Could you have avoided the problem?
>>
>>I'm a long ways from the decision, and always willing to learn from the
>>mistakes of others.
>
>
>I was originally planning to have it painted before first flight. Since
>there have been some issues with high oil temps here in the high and hot
New
>Mexico area, I may have to make some cowl mods. So, I want all the hacking
>and chopping to be done BEFORE that expensive paint job is done. Also, if I
>have to make a stab incidence change, the tail fairing might have to get
>tweaked. Yet another opportunity to muck up the paint.
>
>Brian Denk
>RV8 N94BD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: autopilot/turn coordinator |
I have installed one in my airplane but have not yet flown. I can tell you
from flying in other planes, that the Navaid is a great product. You can
interface it with a GPS or CDI and it can track it perfectly. It also has a
wing leveler option if you dont want it to track for you. It really takes
the load off the pilot from having to constantly keep your heading. Most
people who have flown with it will agree. They have great customer service,
too.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Ervin <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 4:13 PM
Subject: RV-List: autopilot/turn coordinator
>
>I am waiting on my RV-6A-QB kit to arrive in november and want to install a
>autopilot of some sort but not something for IFR. Has anyone out there had
>experence with a company called "Navaid Devices Inc." ? Navaid sent a very
>nice and honest flyer saying their product was for the kit market only and
>was not to be used for IFR approaches. COST $1300.00 !!!!! Coments good or
>bad for this product ?
Tom Ervin
>
>
N362CT
>(reserved)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRoss10612(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Canopy attachment RV-4 |
Doug:
You have done what so many other builders have done, including myself. This
happens when concentrating on a task so intently that some detail that is
very critical is omitted. Making two left or right parts instead of one of
each comes to mind. I try to avoid mistakes like this by stepping back from
the project long enough to consider the thought "what have I missed" prior to
doing any drilling or cutting. I used rivnuts on my RV-8 canopy, and used a
spacer under all holes to simulate the rivnut height. But, the point is, I
could have missed this detail, but luckily I did not. So, don't feel bad, we
all do these things. I admire your honesty in admitting your mistakes, from
this, we can all learn.
I don't know what to advise you as a fix, however. You might consider brazing
shallow steel bushing stock in each 3/16" hole, then open the center up to
1/8". Simply file the area flush after the part cools.
Hope this helps,
Jon Ross RV-80094 Finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A J DeMarzo" <aerome(at)onramp.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9 tail kit delivery? |
Called them just last week and was told maybe another month. That's the
same thing I was told a month ago. I guess things aren't progressing
exactly as planned, so I've changed mine! Good Luck
Al
>Listers,
> I am posting this for a friend who is waiting on a -9 tail kit and is
>wondering if anyone has heard a delivery date. I remember a post by someone
>three or four weeks ago that stated a 3 week delivery.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Nichols
> RV-4 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A J DeMarzo" <aerome(at)onramp.net> |
All this talk brings an article to mind written by John Deakin for Avweb.
It's regarding the recent Beech Mentor problems where the structures are
failing during acrobatic flights. Was only written a few weeks ago and I
think it's worth reading and pondering. Hits home here because if the
situation is ultimately not viewed correctly, all of the classic Beech
owners may one day have an expensive pile of scrap aluminum in the shape of
an airplane.
Al
>My comment on the lightning holes in the wing were not about the location
but
>rather on the SIZE of the lightning holes in the -8.......they go up to the
spar
>caps and aside to the rib area..... there have been no failures on the -6
or the
>-4 wing like the -8 wing. The eye wittness report (at the -8 accident)
>reported straight & level flight. We do know the gross weight ....add up
the
>passanger weight & look at the w&b data sheet for the aircraft. All we
know for
>certain is that it failed & it is of the new design & all the experts
said it
>should not have failed..I do not know something more like was suggested.
The g
>question asside... of all the -6 & -4 flying.....why has not there been a
>simular wing failure ? Surely the flight attribute(s) that caused the -8
wing
>to fail has been duplicated at least once with all the hundreds of
thousands of
>hours of accumulated flight hours of the -6 & -4 type rv's....... Keep in
mind
>this is a opinion but in my book the -8 wing still has a question mark next
to
>it
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FW: Wood prop strike |
| From: | "James Freeman" <cd005677(at)mindspring.com> |
----------
From: "James Freeman" <cd005677(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Wood prop strike
Date: Mon, Sep 20, 1999, 7:57 PM
Hi listers.
Posting for a friend again. He is trying to figure out his best options
after a minimal prop strike in an RV-4.
He bounced a wheel landing (transitioning from a Cessna Ag-Wagon :-() at
idle power and elected to take it around. His second approach resulted in a
smooth three point landing. On shutdown, the ends of the Warnke prop were
frayed and appeared slightly shortened, probably one inch or less. The prop
was smooth in the go-around.
Prior to the incident, The prop was overpitched for the airplane, developing
only 1900 RPM on takeoff.
I have heard of people intentionally shortening wood props to increase RPM
presumably using a more controllable and precise method.
Could this prop be salvageable or should he just replace it?
If he replaces it, what is the collective wisdom from those who has changed
from wood to metal?
TIA
James Freeman
RV-8 fuse
Reply to list, to me, or directly to him at : dhirsch(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRobert569(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Seal |
Mark,
Pop rivets are fairly easy to get out. I have found that the best way is to get
a pin punch about the same size as the center of the rivet, and using a small
to medium size hammer, drive the center pin out the back of the rivet, then
drill out the rivet just like a regular rivet. The biggest problem you will find
with pop rivets is that they tend to want to spin in the hole while drilling.
At that point I usually use a pair of Dikes and grip the rivet as best as
I can.
Have fun!!!!!
Mike Robertson
RV-8A QB N809RS
Installing nutplates, lots and lots of nutplates.
In a message dated Tue, 21 Sep 1999 6:06:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "riveter"
writes:
>
> Listers,
>
> I got word from Van's that the aileron gap seal gap needs to be 1/4 inch
> (1/8 absolute minimum) and uniform from side to side. This critical
> dimension is not in the RV4 plans nor could I find it in the manual. Anyway,
> I have to remove and replace a gap seal because the gap is too small.
>
> This means drilling out over 50 rivets, half of which are CS4-4 pop rivets
> in the aft spar. Then there is the problem of transferring the holes to the
> new gap seal. Also, I will have to get all the rivet bits and shavings out
> of the wing afterward.
>
> I have never drilled out a pop rivet, but it seems the stem in the middle
> may cause problems when drilling. Is there a trick to it? How about
> transferring the holes to the new gap seal?
>
> Mark McGee
> Upstate NY
> RV4 Wings
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan E. Files" <BFiles(at)corecom.net> |
Do you notch the rear spar of the horizontal stabilizer for the elevator
horns before you rivet the stiffeners to it or after?
Bryan Files
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | F670 side skins on rv-6a |
If I trim close to the final line and then hand file it down, it looks
>like a lot of hours of filing.
>
>Regards,
>Tom Velvick
>Peoria, AZ
=============================================================
Tom:
it is. I have found NOT to do a final trim on the first cut. You will see
a crease mark where you stopped cuttin & started again. Cut from 1/8
to1/4 from the line & then final trim. This will let the ribon curle as
you cut the 2nd time.
You want to roll the edges that need it prior to dempling. I just
switched to my metal rollers from the Avery plastic & ended up with
stretched edges. I think when I rolled I also stretched it. IF it don't
work out, I will just start over.
Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: F670 side skins on rv-6a |
Tom: I just finished the right fwd side skin on my -6. I just cut almost
to the trim lines on the bench with my a/c shears, then finished with a vixen
file and 320/400 sandpaper. Looks great and took about one hour. A heck of
a lot easier than getting the aft lower corner to fit nice and tight!
Harry Crosby (HCRV6(at)aol.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: F670 side skins on rv-6a |
Tom: I just finished the right fwd side skin on my -6. I just cut almost
to the trim lines on the bench with my a/c shears, then finished with a vixen
file and 320/400 sandpaper. Looks great and took about one hour. A heck of
a lot easier than getting the aft lower corner to fit nice and tight!
Harry Crosby (HCRV6(at)aol.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | RC Allen Vs. Sigmatek |
Any input on if the extra $80 for the Sigmatek DG and Artificial horizons
are worth it? The appearance of the Sigma Tek is a little nicer, but wanted
to hear if anyone is disappointed in RC Allen.
Thanks..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
(Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id
for" ;
Tue,
21 Sep 1999 15:41:57.-0400(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Van's Engine Gages |
Faithfull Brethren,
At Sun N Fun Van's had a proposed line of analog engine gages that were very
reasonable. Does anyone know if these are available, or has anyone used them
yet?
Thanks
Eric Henson
Mason-Dixon Engineering
(Beyond Yankee Ingenuity)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Notch them afterwards. In fact, wait until you mount the elevators to see
how much notching you are going to need to make the required travel.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
RV-6A canopy
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan E. Files [mailto:BFiles(at)corecom.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 1:55 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: -4 HS Spar
Do you notch the rear spar of the horizontal stabilizer for
the elevator
horns before you rivet the stiffeners to it or after?
Bryan Files
Aircraft
Avionics, and by the generous Contributions of List
members.
RV-List:
http://www.matronics.com/rv-list
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Archive Search Engine:
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Archive Browsing:
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Other Email Lists:
http://www.matronics.com/other
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Why Not Paint Before Flight, was: Temporary paint |
>
FWIW I plan on painting my 6A before the first flight. It is currently assembled
in my garage and is just about ready for paint. My reasons are:
1) I can do a decent paint job myself
2) I can paint in my garage but not at the airport
3) I have access to a forced air respirator and have tyvek paint suits
4) I can save 3000 bucks. Very important since I am currently unemployed.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A - Installing windscreen for the last time.
Pine Junction, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | I have to sell my RV-4 |
I have been trying to find a way not to do it but I am faced with the
reality that I must sell my RV-4. I suspect that if there is anywhere
where I might find a good home for it, this is the place.
The airplane was built by Glen Whitely. Glen was responsible for many RV
starts in Southern California. Glen himself built several RVs. This
airplane was his personal airplane. I know that there are several members
of this mailing list who know this airplane and were probably convinced to
build their own after flying it. Maybe some of them will speak up.
The engine is an O-320-D2J modified to take a fuel pump. It came from a
C-172 and flew to 2500 hrs without requiring any significant maintenance
until I decided to overhaul it. I did a no-holds-barred overhaul to new
limits with almost all new parts, i.e. the crank, cam, rods, and cases were
reusable and I had the jugs overhauled by Lycon. I have put about 80 hours
on the airplane since I overhauled the engine. It also has a new Props
Inc. wood prop.
The panel is full IFR. I have electric gyros. I built a new electrical
system for the aircraft when I overhauled the engine. Here is the
equipment list for the panel:
Datatest 300 panel-mount GPS
Argus 3000 moving map
Terra TX-760D comm
Terra TN-200D nav w/GS
Terra Tri-Nav-C ILS indicator and CDI for GPS
Terra TRT-250D transponder with Terra encoder
RST three-lite marker beacon RX
PS Engineering PS-510 intercom with music input
AFA AV-10 engine monitor with fuel totalizer
EI dual fuel guage
The airplane has been a work-in-progress and I am still fixing up a few
cosmetic things. I do need to repaint the cowl (I glassed in a new scoop
and haven't repainted).
So make me an offer. This is a great airplane (Tom Brown just got to fly
it so you can get a second opinion from him) but I have no choice but to
sell it.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RC Allen Vs. Sigmatek |
>
>Any input on if the extra $80 for the Sigmatek DG and Artificial horizons
>are worth it? The appearance of the Sigma Tek is a little nicer, but wanted
>to hear if anyone is disappointed in RC Allen.
Why don't you give a call to a gyro overhaul shop to ask them about the
guts? I do that with the guys over at the Gyro House in Auburn. Their
techs who actually work on the gyros have very specific opinions about the
internal quality of the various instruments.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics dealers |
Cost on the KT-76A is $1186. Beware here. Any price under $1186 is most
likely a remanufactured unit, but they won't advertise that.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
-----Original Message-----
From: John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 1:59 AM
Subject: RV-List: Avionics dealers
>
>My Collins transponder that I purchased used started kicking thje
>breaker and I went shopping for a King KT-76A. I thought I would show
>you all the prices. The prices include rack and connector.
>Gulf Coast -- $ 1195
>Chief-- $ 1159
>South East Aerospace-- $ 1050
>
>Aerosystems--no reply
>Aerotronics-- no reply
>I would sure try South East Aero for any future needs. The entire
>transaction was by email.
>Email address is
> Southeast Aerospace and the guys name
>was Joe Braddock in sales.
>
>John Kitz
>N721JK
>Ohio
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Van's Engine Gages |
I talked to someone from Van's at Golden West. He said that the gauges are
available now. They are just the ISSPRO (sp?) gauges that they have been
selling all along with their faces reworked to include larger numbers and
greater needle sweep to make reading them easier. And of course, Van's
logo....
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
svanarts(at)unionsafe.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com(Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with
SMTP id for
[mailto:rv-list(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 12:30 PM
Subject: RV-List: Van's Engine Gages
SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id for
Faithfull Brethren,
At Sun N Fun Van's had a proposed line of analog engine gages that were very
reasonable. Does anyone know if these are available, or has anyone used them
yet?
Thanks
Eric Henson
Mason-Dixon Engineering
(Beyond Yankee Ingenuity)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | albertp(at)mail.smartchat.net.au |
| Subject: | re: terra trinav c indicator- Brian Lloyd |
Dear Brian,
I note that in your post regarding sale of your rv4, you have a terra navcom
package with the trinav-c indicator. I too have one for my rv6 which has flown
40hrs. I have tried a few ifr tracking approaches and found that the OBS
selector tend to "drift" until it sort of warms up.E.g. when I set up a vor obs
setting to say 030 degrees, it will gradually decrease the reading to about 000
or less (always less degrees ). Then when it warms up(I think) it settles down
to the correct OBS setting (i.e. after my persistent resetting the dial.)I dont
think this is due to a loose knob. Meanwhile the ILS worked fine, because it
does not rely on the obs setting.
Do you have similar behaviour on yours?
Sorry to hear of your impending sale of your craft, looks like a rather
elaborate panel, are you upgrading to an -8?
Thanks for your reply
regards and best wishes
albert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jason Beaver" <jason(at)avantgo.com> |
| Subject: | Turbo-normalized engine for 6A |
I'm curious if anyone has used a turbo-normalized engine in an RV. At high
alititude, this should allow significantly higher TAS while still keeping
IAS below redline. If so, what kind of cruise numbers are you getting? At
18,000 - 24,000 feet, how well does the relatively short RV wingspan
perform?
thanks,
jason, RV-6A Preview Plans
__________________
Jason Beaver
Sr. WinCE Engineer
AvantGo Inc.
jason(at)avantgo.com
http://www.avantgo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Why Not Paint Before Flight, was: Temporary paint |
Because painting before first flight would put off something I can't wait for!!
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Laurence <plaurenc(at)bellsouth.net> |
Has anyone considered placed an all electric panel with 2 batteries and
two alternators?
Any thoughts on this?
--
Peter Laurence
RV6-A
plaurenc(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Wood Prop Vendor? |
Can anyone recommend a good wood prop? I wanted a Paul Irlbeck prop, but he
is not really into cutting props anymore. Any suggestions?
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics dealers |
I bought a "surplus" KT-76A several years ago. It was used to ferry a new
King Air and then removed. This is quite frequently done, I was told.
Saved about $500.
>
>Cost on the KT-76A is $1186. Beware here. Any price under $1186 is most
>likely a remanufactured unit, but they won't advertise that.
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>http://members.home.net/rv8er
>Finish Kit
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com>
>To: RV List
>Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 1:59 AM
>Subject: RV-List: Avionics dealers
>
>
>>
>>My Collins transponder that I purchased used started kicking thje
>>breaker and I went shopping for a King KT-76A. I thought I would show
>>you all the prices. The prices include rack and connector.
>>Gulf Coast -- $ 1195
>>Chief-- $ 1159
>>South East Aerospace-- $ 1050
>>
>>Aerosystems--no reply
>>Aerotronics-- no reply
>>I would sure try South East Aero for any future needs. The entire
>>transaction was by email.
>>Email address is
>> Southeast Aerospace and the guys name
>>was Joe Braddock in sales.
>>
>>John Kitz
>>N721JK
>>Ohio
>>
>>
>
>
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
Visit our web site at... http://www.bellanca-championclub.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <dave(at)davebarnhart.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Why Not Paint Before Flight, was: Temporary paint |
>Who out there has regreted painting before flying?
>
>Do you believe you are in the majority or minority?
>
>Could you have avoided the problem?
I flew my RV-6 unpainted for about 40 hours prior to paint, and I'm glad I
did. I had a couple of fiberglass joints that cracked due to insufficient
reinforcement. Had the airplane been painted, I would have cried.
Unpainted, however, it was no sweat.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <dave(at)davebarnhart.com> |
pcondon(at)csc.com wrote:
>
>My comment on the lightning holes in the wing were not about the location
but
>rather on the SIZE of the lightning holes in the -8.......they go up to
the spar
>caps and aside to the rib area..... there have been no failures on the -6
or the
>-4 wing like the -8 wing. The eye wittness report (at the -8 accident)
>reported straight & level flight. We do know the gross weight ....add up the
>passanger weight & look at the w&b data sheet for the aircraft. All we
know for
>certain is that it failed & it is of the new design & all the experts
said it
>should not have failed..I do not know something more like was suggested.
The g
>question asside... of all the -6 & -4 flying.....why has not there been a
>simular wing failure ? Surely the flight attribute(s) that caused the -8
wing
>to fail has been duplicated at least once with all the hundreds of
thousands of
>hours of accumulated flight hours of the -6 & -4 type rv's....... Keep in
mind
>this is a opinion but in my book the -8 wing still has a question mark
next to
>it
I have to jump in here. The statements above are pure, unfounded speculation.
Frankly, there is MORE data on the wing than any other component or aspect
of this unfortunate accident, and all of it points to the wing NOT being
the cause.
Yes, a witness saw the aircraft in level flight just before the accident.
Are you aware that it is not uncommon for over-stressed parts to fail at a
later time? (Many years ago, Wes Winters, a local aerobatic performer died
in just this way in a Partenavia. He overstressed the wing spar while
performing a loop, and the wing failed during level flight several seconds
after the loop was completed.)
If in fact the size or location of a lightning hole is a problem, then any
competent engineering analysis would have revealed it. If the science of
engineering analysis could NOT reveal such a problem, then we would be
having several hundred mysterious structural failures per year across all
metal aircraft.
Yes, it is also true that no RV-4 or RV-6 spar has failed. Perhaps the
absolute limits of the RV-4/6 spar are significantly greater than 9 Gs. Now
THAT is a much more plausable explanation than saying the RV-8 spar has bad
JUJU.
If you have engineering data to substantiate your claim, then PLEASE
present it.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
RV-6 N601DB
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Prop Vendor? |
Mike Demuth makes a great wood prop and has worked with lots of RVs to
develop a prop that is specific to RVs. His number is 410-461-4329.
George and Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy attachment RV-4 |
Doug,
You can have the large holes welded closed..
Canopy off of course. I have done this for several
people.
Stewart RV4 273sb.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: re: Visiting Los Angeles |
Listers:
I am visiting the Sourthern California area for the week. Are there any
builders in the LA area that would like to show their project?
Aren't there a couple of local airports that are really hotbeds for RVs???
Thanks!
Len N910LL (reserved)
Skinning Wings on 8A
Fuselage just delivered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re: Visiting Los Angeles |
--- Lenleg(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Listers:
>
> I am visiting the Sourthern California area for the
> week. Are there any
> builders in the LA area that would like to show
> their project?
>
> Aren't there a couple of local airports that are
> really hotbeds for RVs???
>
> Thanks!
>
> Len N910LL (reserved)
> Skinning Wings on 8A
> Fuselage just delivered
Chino has a least a dozen flying RVs.
Cable has 3 under construction in their EAA hangar and
another 8 (on the airport) that I know about under
construction and 5 flying. Will have a new 6A flying
before years end. (Could be before the end of
October.)
There is one flying 6A that I know about at Torrance.
Whiteman has 4 flying RV and one under construction
that I know about.
Apple Valley has one flying -4 and several Rockets
under construction.
There are 2 flying -6s at Hemet.
Have to say that there is probably an RV at every
airport except maybe LAX but do not have names of all
of them. I do have names and e-mail or phone numbers
of 20 SOCAL builders / flyers.
I will be working Saturday afternoon but will fly
Sunday.
==
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
So. CA, USA
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: re: Visiting Los Angeles |
Hot bed at EAA #448, Cable Airport, Upland....just outside of LA.
Irv 80110
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RC Allen Vs. Sigmatek |
--- Paul Besing wrote:
>
>
> Any input on if the extra $80 for the Sigmatek DG
> and Artificial horizons
> are worth it? The appearance of the Sigma Tek is a
> little nicer, but wanted
> to hear if anyone is disappointed in RC Allen.
>
> Thanks..
>
All my gyros are RC Allen. 430 hours and no problems
with the DG. The original NEW attitude gyro tumbled
(spun around in circles) at 125 hours. Installed
another NEW RC Allen replacement and sent the other
one to them for repair. They charged me $295 for the
overhaul. The New replacement died at 195 hours.
(horizon would go up and down slowly.) It was
repaired no charge under warranty and returned. The
factory overhauled unit that was installed is now
starting to act up after 110 hours. Vacuum is low now
so the gyro may not be the problem. Still under
investigation.
I purchased the RC Allen gyros becasue they were
reported to be the better gyro. With the luck that I
had, I am not so sure if they are as good as another
RV builder said they were. Knowing what I know, if I
did not own two RC Allen Attitude gyros and wanted an
Attitude gyro, I would spend the extra $80 and get the
Sigma Tec.
The repair order that was returned with both gyros
show that bearings were replaced.
==
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
So. CA, USA
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Why Not Paint Before Flight |
To fly now or to paint and fly later, that is the question. This is a hot
debate subject; sort of like tail vs nose wheel, side-by-side vs tandem,
etc. There are arguments both ways.
After almost 2 years and 285+ hours, Suzie Q is STILL not painted. I'm
having too much fun flying her and that is one of the arguments for painting
first. I was more in the mood to fly than do more 'building' at the time.
I'm glad I did as there were a few things that came up that would have been
a problem had she been painted: a bubble between the gelcoat and the
fiberglass on the cowl that had to be filled; crazing and some small cracks
in the intake area of the cowl; new rivets in the cowl to better secure the
hinge. (Is there a cowl theme here?)
I still have some work to do on the wingtips (better fit, landing/taxi
lights) and smoothing out the fairings. Little stuff. And some more stuff on
the cowl (there's THAT word again) like getting the spinner more centered,
smoothing out the carb air intake.
As far as re-rigging, you are probably not going to do that (you DID build
it straight, didn't you) so that's not really a reason.
So, we are roaring around the air having a blast in VeriPrime and showing no
signs of wear, just fading from sun and some strange patterns from (acid?)
rain at OSH. I put stars and bars and several other military emblems on her
just for fun. There have been MANY people that have told me to keep it like
that. Aaaah maybe. I've narrowed it down to about 23 different paint
schemes now. Really getting close. She would look pretty good painted; hell,
she looks pretty good in her underwear!
If you want to fly now, put off the paint job. If you can wait a couple more
months or so, paint it now. It is about the same amount of hassle either
way: if you don't do it now, will you want to take it apart to paint it
later? It will be pretty much fun flying it. It can be painted with the
wings and tail still on.
Just my opinion...............which is no help at all....
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
"I think this a military trainer, honey. Is this an Air Force trainer?" 'No.
If they had any brains at all they would use it as one, though, instead of
that piece of junk they have now.'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BumFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RC Allen Vs. Sigmatek |
I, too heard "everyone say" the RC Allen was preferred especially by the
rebuilders. Through a series of mix ups, with Aircraft Spruce, I wound up
buying a sigma tec attitude gyro and an R C Allen DG. Both are still doing
far better than I expected. The DG hardly drifts at all and the Attitude
Gyro hangs in there through the daily thrashing I give it. It doesn't seem
to mind rolls and loops. I don't do any neg G maueuvers or snaps, but I do
roll it on virtually every flight. Doesn't everyone? Over 500 hrs now.
Based on my experience I would highly recommend the Sigma tech att indicator.
But I also like the RC allen dG. I would definitely spring for the extra $
and get one with a heading bug on it next time though.
D Walsh RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F1Rocket(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV6 gearleg intersection fairings |
Listers,
One of the areas that is more difficult to build is the gearleg intersection
fairings. Some buiders accomplish this with ease, and some have a very
difficult time with it. We have solved this problem for those that are
interested in top quality intersection fairings. We sell these fairings for
the RV6 only (in other words, not the 6A...yet). They match our fiberglass
gearleg fairings, and will also match the Van's pressure recovery wheel pant.
If you are interested in knowing more about these fairings or any other
product that we offer for the RVs, please call me at 561-748-2429 or email me
offline at F1Rocket(at)aol.com.
Thanks,
Scott
Team Rocket, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Prop Vendor? |
I have a Canadian made wood prop made out of maple that's serving me well so
far (85hours). I know of several others who use the same prop with no
reported problems. Don't have the numbers in hand. Contact me offline if
your'e interested.
A. Vu
RV-6
N095VU
>
>Can anyone recommend a good wood prop? I wanted a Paul Irlbeck prop, but he
>is not really into cutting props anymore. Any suggestions?
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>http://members.home.net/rv8er
>Finish Kit
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: All Electric |
>
>Has anyone considered placed an all electric panel with 2 batteries and
>two alternators?
>
>Any thoughts on this?
Yes, this is one of the standard "Electric Bob Official Electrical System
Configurations." It makes sense and can be done fairly easily these days.
B&C makes a very nice line of dynamos/alternators that mount on the vacuum
pump pad.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re: terra trinav c indicator- Brian Lloyd |
>
>Dear Brian,
>I note that in your post regarding sale of your rv4, you have a terra navcom
>package with the trinav-c indicator. I too have one for my rv6 which has
flown
>40hrs. I have tried a few ifr tracking approaches and found that the OBS
>selector tend to "drift" until it sort of warms up.E.g. when I set up a
vor obs
>setting to say 030 degrees, it will gradually decrease the reading to
about 000
>or less (always less degrees ). Then when it warms up(I think) it settles
down
>to the correct OBS setting (i.e. after my persistent resetting the dial.)I
dont
>think this is due to a loose knob. Meanwhile the ILS worked fine, because it
>does not rely on the obs setting.
>Do you have similar behaviour on yours?
No. Mine works just peachy. How does it work in RMI mode?
>Sorry to hear of your impending sale of your craft, looks like a rather
>elaborate panel, are you upgrading to an -8?
No, but that would be nice. I would love to have an -8 or a Rocket-II but
things will have to wait.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Prop Vendor? |
>
>Can anyone recommend a good wood prop? I wanted a Paul Irlbeck prop, but he
>is not really into cutting props anymore. Any suggestions?
I purchased a prop from Props Inc. It took a long time to get it but it is
a very nicely constructed prop and works pretty well.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed O'Connor" <EdwardOConnor(at)compuserve.com> |
I just completed installing the wd 822s on my RV-8. As in your case
everything has fit well to this point. After drilling the 822s and looking
at the edge distance, I had the required edge distance after drilling the #
19 holes. However, I do not have the required edge distance on the lower
portion of the WD 822 where the # 30 holes are drilled through the Aululary
Longeron (844) and through the WD 822. I am just sightly under on one of
the WD 822s. The other is OK all the way around. I also found that one of
the holes in the 802 G and 802 H falls right in line with the peice of
angle inside the WD 822. It would have been impossible to put a nut and
washer on. I had to use a dremel tool to cut a slight piece of the angle
out to make room for the nut on both sides of the WD 822s where one of the
#3 AN bolts go. If you look at the drawing, the bolt hole is shown
touching the angle so even in a perfect fit, there wouild be interference.
Will post this to list also.
Ed O'Connor, Panama City FL
RV-8 N366RV.
Dimpling and c/sinking skins before priming
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Van's Engine Gages |
I ordered a set of those gauges in early July. To date they have sent me
only the oil temp, oil press, and fuel press. The Tach, Manifold press, and
fuel gauges, are still on back order. They did not have the Cyl head temp
and EGT even engineered yet at the time of my order, from what I understand,
so bought alternates for those. Recommend ordering early, cause they have
been slooowwww to fill my order.
Roger Munson
RV6A Canopy/Panel layout
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Van's Engine Gages |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
>I talked to someone from Van's at Golden West. He said that the
>gauges are
>available now. They are just the ISSPRO (sp?) gauges that they have
>been
>selling all along with their faces reworked to include larger numbers
>and
>greater needle sweep to make reading them easier. And of course,
>Van's
>logo....
>
Actually they are mostly new designed instruments that are manufactured
for us by Isspro.
All of them are available except for the manifold pressure. We decided
we weren't happy with it and are changing the design from the standard
"line to the instrument case" type of instrument, to probably one with an
engine mounted pressure transducer that feeds a signal to an electronic
instrument.
The only problem we have had with any of the instruments so far is that
we can't keep them in stock.
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Why Not Paint Before Flight, was: Temporary paint |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
>>
>> It is a given that I will fly my -6 before it is painted,
>
>Why?
>
>I mean, OK - you want to make sure there's no rigging problems the
>repair or tweaking of which would mess up a high $$ paint job.
>But what are the odds?
>
>Hereabouts I notice a lot of aircraft coming out of the shop ready to
>fly, paint and all. Don't know how many later tear up their paint job
>tweaking the aircraft.
>
>
My response to anyone asking me whether they should paint first or fly
first is "that depends"
Are you going to paint it or are you going to take it to someone else and
have them paint it.
If you are going to paint it yourself it is much, much, much easier to do
(especially if you are not an experienced painter) it while that airplane
is disassembled (wings removed, etc.).
There is a large # of reasons for this that I could expand on if anyone
was interested.
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
If someone else is going to paint it then fly it first. Then you have an
easy way to get it to their shop (assuming it is going to be an aircraft
paint shop that does it).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Canopy attachment RV-4 |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
>Fellow Listers:
>
>I am in the process of attaching my canopy to the canopy frame. The
>initial
>holes in the plexi and the tubular frame have been drilled and the
>first
>preliminary fit using clecoes was perfect. I had originally intended
>to
>attach the canopy using #6 SS screws and rivnuts instead of pop
>rivets.
>But, I
>now find this doesn't work because after installing the rivnuts to the
>tubular frame at the front (where the front canopy skirt is), the
>thickness
>of the rivnuts positions the canopy forward slightly so that all the
>holes
>to
>the rear are not aligned. How can I bee this stupid??
>
>I have tapped the #6 screw holes from the front
>skirt aft and now will have to drill out the rivnuts at the front. I
>will
>then have 3/16" holes that need to be filled, drilled, and tapped if I
>want
>to continue the idea of using screws and not pop rivets.
>
>Any ideas on a super strong, bullet proof filler that I can use on
>these
>holes that can be drilled and tapped. This evening I am testing JB
>Weld on
>a test piece and see how it works in the morning.
>
>Also has anyone attached their canopy using just #6 screws tapped only
>into
>the tubular frame (along with some type of thread locker)? Again, all
>this
>instead of pop rivets.
>
>
>Doug
>
Doug,
I have only installed one RV-4 canopy but it was done using a type of
rivnut that used to be supplied in the kit. They were very low profile.
I do not recall using anything as a spacer to account for the hight of
the rivnut.
I just drilled the holes, installed the rivnuts, screwed on the canopy
and skirts.
I think their use was discontinued because of the rivets being less
trouble and some builders had problems with screws binding up and
spinning the rivnuts. The canopy I used them on I installed them with
epoxy.
Call the office and ask for someone that has been there a while.
They may still have some laying around some where.
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
76,79-87,89-98,100-107,109-115
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
>My comment on the lightning holes in the wing were not about the
>location but
>rather on the SIZE of the lightning holes in the -8
-
I know... and my point was that they have totally nothing to do with the
wing failure because there were no lightning holes anywhere near the
failed portion of the spar.
For this reason I think your comments are likely just blind speculation,
but you are entitled to your opinion.
-
there have been no failures on the
>-6 or the
>-4 wing like the -8 wing.
-
Maybe we have been fortunate, maybe not.
-
The eye wittness report (at the -8
>accident)
>reported straight & level flight.
-
The value of eye witness reports (especially ones that are nearly 2 miles
away) are of marginal value at best (as has been extensively discussed to
great length here on the list and else where).
-
We do know the gross weight ....add
>up the
>passenger weight & look at the w&b data sheet for the aircraft.
-
Do we?
The understanding that I have of the term "gross weight" is that of the
total all up weight of the airplane (empty weight plus everything that is
added to it).
I know the approx. empty weight (I built a good portion of the airplane)
was 1075 lbs. If you know what the weight of the pilot and passenger was
at the time of the accident then I believe you know something that no one
else does.
Just for fun lets assume they were both FAA standard 170 lb. people.
Between the 2 of them that adds up to 340 lbs.
Now an airplane can't fly very well without fuel so we have to figure
that in as part of the gross weight. An RV-8 is capable of carrying 42
gal of fuel. Lets suppose that they departed with full fuel. The flight
duration only last about 20 minutes. Being conservative we will say that
they had burned off 4 gal. of fuel which means that they were carrying 38
gal at the time of the crash (or 228 pounds of fuel)
lets total it up 1075 + 340 + 228 = 1643 lbs.
The approved aerobatic gross weight (the weight at which it is safe to
pull 6 G's) of an RV-8 is 1550 lbs. If the above data was valid ( I
don't know either, but I am trying to show that there are a lot of
factors to consider when doing arm chair engineering) then they would
have been almost 100 lbs over the aerobatic gross weight.
-
All
>we know for
>certain is that it failed & it is of the new design & all the
>experts said it
>should not have failed..
-
I am afraid you still have this wrong. The testing showed that the wing
should not have failed until loaded to its "ultimate" limit of 9 G's.
That is much different than saying that it shouldn't have failed. Since
no one really knows what G load it was at when it failed.
When designing for aerobatic approval the airplane should have a limit
load of 6 G's (the load that you can fly to) and be able to attain 150 %
of limit (ultimate or 9 G's) before failure. The key though is that
this is at a specific maximum weight (aerobatic gross weight) If you are
flying at higher than the aerobatic gross weight then things change.
"If" 58RV was at the same weight as my example above then the ultimate
load limit (point of failure) would have been slightly less that 8.5 G's
instead of 9 G's.
Now lets assume that both the pilot and the passenger weighed 220 lbs
instead of the standard 170 lbs.
This would have reduced the margin even further to where wing failure
would likely happen at about 8 G's.
The point is that you can't make generalities with this type of thing.
every little thing matters which is what makes a cause so hard to
determine many times.
-
( do not know something more like was
>suggested. The g
>question asside... of all the -6 & -4 flying.....why has not there
>been a
>simular wing failure ?
-
A valid question. Maybe the answer is that since the RV's are great
airplanes it maybe took this long for all of the right (Wrong?)
factors to fall in to place at one specific time.
-
Surely the flight attribute(s) that caused
>the -8 wing
>to fail has been duplicated at least once with all the hundreds of
>thousands of
>hours of accumulated flight hours of the -6 & -4 type rv's.......
-
Maybe... But where does that leave us with TWA flight 800.
with all of the 100's of thousands of hours on Boeing 747"s we could say
the same thing.
-
>Keep in mind
>this is a opinion but in my book the -8 wing still has a question mark
>next to
>it.
-
It is unfortunate, but I have to agree with you on this one.
"My opinion" is that with time the RV-8(A) will prove itself to be a very
fine airplane.
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Metal spinner for Hartzell prop |
In a message dated 9/21/99 6:31:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
dougweil(at)pressenter.com writes:
<< does Hartzell (or anyone else) make a metal spinner to
fit the 180 hp C/S prop. I know Sensenich makes metal spinners for their
props, but I can't recall if I have seen a metal spinner on a 180 hp
Hartzell on an RV. >>
ACS lists one p/n 10065 that is designed for O-360 and c/s.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Whelen Strobes |
In a message dated 9/21/99 7:41:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
bobby.hargrave(at)postoffice.worldnet.att.net writes:
<< Installed Whelen power packs on each wing tip rib. Using Nuckoll Bob's
2-10 sw to control both nav and strobes. Info on Whelens state 2.9A @ 14V.
What AWG wire and fuse/breaker do I need from power bus to sw and out to
power packs? I'm guessing 7.5A fuse but not sure. Please confirm. Fuse and
AWG size. >>
I'd go with a 7.5A circuit breaker for 2 single units in parallel and 16 AWG
hookup wire.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F670 side skins on rv-6a |
Thanks to everyone who replied for their help. I made several passes with
my aviation snips untll I got as close as I could get and then took the
aluminum down the rest of the way with a vixen file and then sanded it
out. It took about 5 hours to get it all down but the side skins came out
fine. Now to figure how to bend over that flap in back on the side skins
and then take the whole mess apart to deburr and set up for final riveting.
yea!
Regards,
Tom (gonna get it out of the jig yet) Velvick
Peoria, AZ
rv-6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: autopilot/turn coordinator |
ther are 4 RV in the Lubbock area with them all love them I have one
comming and two others have one comming thats 6 RV here in Lubbock TX that
will have them. all good reports.
Fitting wing tips and MI lighting
N468 TC (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Imron and dimpled rivet heads |
Listers,
I'm painting my RV-6A with Imron. My tech counselor noted that the
Imron isn't "bridging" between the sheet metal and my dimpled rivets.
In other words, the Imron covers the rivet head and flows into the
dimple, but leaves a tiny gap between the Imron in the dimple and the
rivet head. My tech counselor thinks it should "bridge the gap" and
flow together. (It does fine with countersunk rivets, however).
Technique I'm using: wash with Dawn (recommended by DuPont), 225
(acid etch, like alumiprep) with scotch brite, 226 (conversion coating,
like alodyne), Corlar (DuPont's recommended 2 part epoxy) and Imron.
I scuff sanded my wings with 400 grit after the first application didn't
"bridge the gaps" too well, and the second application bridged most
of the rivet head gaps. Tech support at DuPont suggested two
medium coats, then heavy final coat, vs one medium and one heavy
coat per the directions.
For those of you who have shot Imron (or other paints): did your
paint flow and bridge the gap between rivet heads and the
surrounding dimple?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
******
Tim Lewis
timrv6a(at)iname.com
N47TD RV-6A, painting
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a/jpi.html - No JPI stuff in my airplane
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: All Electric |
Peter,
Dave & I are going all electric with our RV-8A. We are just finishing up the
fuselage work on our QB and will begin the system installations following
the canopy installation (probable start - November). We are following Bob
Nuckolls plan: which includes dual batteries and a B&C secondary alt on the
vac pad.
We will keep "The List" informed of our progress.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
Niantic, CT
>From: Peter Laurence <plaurenc(at)bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: RV-list
>Subject: RV-List: All Electric
>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:21:38 -0400
>
>
>Has anyone considered placed an all electric panel with 2 batteries and
>two alternators?
>
>Any thoughts on this?
>--
>Peter Laurence
>RV6-A
>plaurenc(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com |
| Subject: | Interference between rudder cable and rudder travel stops |
I'm in the process of installing the rudder travel stops on my -4 and find that
they interfere with the rudder cables. When the rudder is in the full left
postion, the right rudder cable (the slack one) rides under the stop attached
to the tail end of the fuselage. The same problem exists for travel in the
other direction. The cable doesn't seem to hang up, but I'm concerned it will
wear in that area. Have any you seen this problem, and if so, how did you
solve it?
**** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc. and may contain business confidential
information. It is intended for the addressee only and may not be copied
without our permission. If you are not the intended recipient please contact
the sender as soon as possible.****
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics dealers |
Paul Besing wrote:
>
> Cost on the KT-76A is $1186. Beware here. Any price under $1186 is most
> likely a remanufactured unit, but they won't advertise that.
>
My email letter and their reply both say ' new ". I will know for sure today as
the UPS tracking says it should be delivered today. My correspondence with
Chief and their reply also beat the $ 1186 that you say is the cost.
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
| Subject: | Wingtip Access Cover |
Listpersons ;>)
Working on my first wing and seeking guidance- I would REALLY like to
permanently attach the wingtips on my 6A (no screws!) but of course need
access to nav/strobe lights (and antennae, if installed) A couple of
options would be:
(1)an access cover about 5x5" installed just forward of the main spar
on the outboard wing bay for access through the rear LE rib lightening
hole (easiest access)
(2)same size cover just behind spar- would require a big hole in the
main spar to reach through LE rib access hole, or double joints on my
arms (which I don't have- does ACS carry these? Maybe Avery?)
(3)an access cover cut in the bottom of the wingtip attached to
nutplates on a reinforced flange in the wingtip opening
Would like to hear pros/cons (aerodynamic issues, durability, anyones
personal experience etc). Off-list replies fine unless you think all
might benefit from your experience.
Thanks in advance-
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips- bracing for the first wingskin riveting session!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Imron and dimpled rivet heads |
Tim,
This is a fairly common problem, especially if the dimpled rivet doesn't
seat snugly against the skin. The Imron, since it "flows" out to achieve a
smooth surface, sometimes cannot overcome the surface tension between the
edge of the skin and the top edge of the rivet. A technique that has worked
for me is to squeegee some primer over the rivets prior to applying the
primer coat. This allows the primer to bridge the small gap and provides a
good surface for the Imron to adhere to.
One word of caution. If objective with this technique is to overcome the
surface tension so that the primer bridges the small gap. If the gap is too
big, the primer will bridge it but will later crack and fall out from around
the rivet. So be stingy with the squeegee and the primer. A little goes a
long way.
Good luck.
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6
"Painting - with Imron"
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Lewis <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 6:36 AM
Subject: RV-List: Imron and dimpled rivet heads
>
>Listers,
>
>I'm painting my RV-6A with Imron. My tech counselor noted that the
>Imron isn't "bridging" between the sheet metal and my dimpled rivets.
> In other words, the Imron covers the rivet head and flows into the
>dimple, but leaves a tiny gap between the Imron in the dimple and the
>rivet head. My tech counselor thinks it should "bridge the gap" and
>flow together. (It does fine with countersunk rivets, however).
>
>Technique I'm using: wash with Dawn (recommended by DuPont), 225
>(acid etch, like alumiprep) with scotch brite, 226 (conversion coating,
>like alodyne), Corlar (DuPont's recommended 2 part epoxy) and Imron.
>
>I scuff sanded my wings with 400 grit after the first application didn't
>"bridge the gaps" too well, and the second application bridged most
>of the rivet head gaps. Tech support at DuPont suggested two
>medium coats, then heavy final coat, vs one medium and one heavy
>coat per the directions.
>
>For those of you who have shot Imron (or other paints): did your
>paint flow and bridge the gap between rivet heads and the
>surrounding dimple?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tim Lewis
>******
>Tim Lewis
>timrv6a(at)iname.com
>N47TD RV-6A, painting
>Springfield VA
>http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
>http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a/jpi.html - No JPI stuff in my airplane
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylorelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Why Not Paint Before Flight, was: Temporary paint |
Mike Thompson wrote:
>
> >
> > It is a given that I will fly my -6 before it is painted,
>
> Why?
>
> I mean, OK - you want to make sure there's no rigging problems the
> repair or tweaking of which would mess up a high $$ paint job.
> But what are the odds?
>
> Hereabouts I notice a lot of aircraft coming out of the shop ready to
> fly, paint and all. Don't know how many later tear up their paint job
> tweaking the aircraft.
>
> Who out there has regreted painting before flying?
>
I went through this before I flew my -4. At first I decided that I would fly
it first and then paint it later. After further thought I knew that I would
never paint if I flew it first. I painted the whole thing then assembled it. I
have had no rigging problems, or any other that I know of. Synopsis: If I had it
to do over I would paint first.
>
> Do you believe you are in the majority or minority?
>
Have no idea about this.
>
> Could you have avoided the problem?
>
As stated, no problems.
>
> Carroll Bird, Buffalo Gap TX RV-4 30 hours and counting.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
Listers-
Got my O-320 E3D recently and prepping for 2-3 year storage. It's on a
stand (rotatable) and I will follow the once/month flip, dehydrator
plug, seal all openings advice from Eustace Bohay (I believe it was his
post from about 6 months ago). Question is: can I take the engine for
a spin with the starter motor to force fresh oil through all the
galleries/rocker covers, accessory housing etc. before finally sealing
it up? How long should I spin it? Is this a bad idea? Should I take up
another hobby?
The oil cooler ports are plugged and I will attach a pressure gauge to
it to make sure I get pressure. Carb not installed, will pull top plugs
before cranking. I will also flip it to submerge the cam before doing
this. (and turn it back over, of course!)
Thanks in advance
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips- 6A wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeffrey.Hawkins(at)ChoicePointInc.com |
| Subject: | Re: Imron and dimpled rivet heads |
09/22/99 09:15:57 AM
Hi Tim,
You can purchase a "fish eye" additive for Imron. This will make it flow a
bit more and "bridge" the rivet. Note that this additive is for preventing
fish eyes/small bubbles in paint but it can be used for other purposes as
well (like this one).
-Jeff
RV-8 (Fuselage stuff)
Atlanta, GA
"Tim Lewis" (at)matronics.com on 09/22/99 07:27:54 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV-List: Imron and dimpled rivet heads
Listers,
I'm painting my RV-6A with Imron. My tech counselor noted that the
Imron isn't "bridging" between the sheet metal and my dimpled rivets.
In other words, the Imron covers the rivet head and flows into the
dimple, but leaves a tiny gap between the Imron in the dimple and the
rivet head. My tech counselor thinks it should "bridge the gap" and
flow together. (It does fine with countersunk rivets, however).
Technique I'm using: wash with Dawn (recommended by DuPont), 225
(acid etch, like alumiprep) with scotch brite, 226 (conversion coating,
like alodyne), Corlar (DuPont's recommended 2 part epoxy) and Imron.
I scuff sanded my wings with 400 grit after the first application didn't
"bridge the gaps" too well, and the second application bridged most
of the rivet head gaps. Tech support at DuPont suggested two
medium coats, then heavy final coat, vs one medium and one heavy
coat per the directions.
For those of you who have shot Imron (or other paints): did your
paint flow and bridge the gap between rivet heads and the
surrounding dimple?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
******
Tim Lewis
timrv6a(at)iname.com
N47TD RV-6A, painting
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a/jpi.html - No JPI stuff in my airplane
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip Access Cover |
Mark,
Not really sure why you think you need access to this area. I have landing
lights in the leading edge and combination strobes/position lights on the
tips. All are accessible from the outside.
However, I attached my wingtips permanently and if I had to do it over
again, I would attach them with screws. The reason is not because I need
access, but because I think it's easier to get them to look nice and
professional with screws than with pop rivets/bondo/sanding/etc. In looking
at all the birds at Oshkosh, a majority of them used screws.
Just a thought.
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6
"Painting"
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net>
Date: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 8:04 AM
Subject: RV-List: Wingtip Access Cover
>
>Listpersons ;>)
>
>Working on my first wing and seeking guidance- I would REALLY like to
>permanently attach the wingtips on my 6A (no screws!) but of course need
>access to nav/strobe lights (and antennae, if installed) A couple of
>options would be:
> (1)an access cover about 5x5" installed just forward of the main spar
>on the outboard wing bay for access through the rear LE rib lightening
>hole (easiest access)
> (2)same size cover just behind spar- would require a big hole in the
>main spar to reach through LE rib access hole, or double joints on my
>arms (which I don't have- does ACS carry these? Maybe Avery?)
> (3)an access cover cut in the bottom of the wingtip attached to
>nutplates on a reinforced flange in the wingtip opening
>
>Would like to hear pros/cons (aerodynamic issues, durability, anyones
>personal experience etc). Off-list replies fine unless you think all
>might benefit from your experience.
>
>Thanks in advance-
>>From the PossumWorks in TN
>Mark Phillips- bracing for the first wingskin riveting session!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rv8abuild(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: All Electric |
In a message dated 9/22/1999 7:35:30 AM Central Daylight Time,
crowbotham(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< Dave & I are going all electric with our RV-8A. We are just finishing up
the
fuselage work on our QB and will begin the system installations following
the canopy installation (probable start - November). We are following Bob
Nuckolls plan: which includes dual batteries >>
Chuck & Dave:
Where do you plan to put your second battery? Also, do you know exactly where
on the firewall you will mount the groundblock?
Thanks,
Jerry Carter
RV-8A fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Prop Vendor? |
I chose a Performance Propellers by Clark Lydick as my vendor because Tracy
Crook had good success with this prop on his Mazda 13B powered RV-4.
In the beginning of this year, lead time was about 2 - 3 months.
I'm not disappointed with this prop so far (only taxiing, not flying yet).
Beautiful work!
Finn
Paul Besing wrote:
>
> Can anyone recommend a good wood prop? I wanted a Paul Irlbeck prop, but he
> is not really into cutting props anymore. Any suggestions?
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
> http://members.home.net/rv8er
> Finish Kit
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Storage |
Mark,
I would suggest removing the push rods for long term
storage.. Valve spring pressure on the cam displaces the
oil leaving it prone to corrosion.
Rv273sb Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shirley Hobenshield <shobenshield(at)cmsd.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Why Not Paint Before Flight, was: Temporary paint |
> I probably wouldn't have taken it apart again. It's not
>fun and it's another opportunity to ding things up.
>
>I much prefer to roll it out to the airport in as close to completed fashion
>as possible. Once I wear the grin, I'm not going to want to stop. I figure
>that any individual part that may need to be repainted, like the cowling,
>will be no big deal.
Hi,
Just to let you in on some of the things that came up after test flights
and painting or not painting,
Am glad I did not paint as we had to tear down after tests to paint and
what did I find?
!. Antenna ( VHF ) needed new mount
2. Rudder cable to foot bars not locked
3. Trim on tail to mould
4. elevator rod secure?
5. rudder hinge to tighten
Only saying this as after the tests we removed the wings to paint and there
were a few things we wanted to change also found a few minor life
dependent parts that we could check which made me feel better.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RC Allen Vs. Sigmatek |
>Brian Lloyd suggested:
>Why don't you give a call to a gyro overhaul shop to ask them about the
>guts? I do that with the guys over at the Gyro House in Auburn. Their
>techs who actually work on the gyros have very specific opinions about the
>internal quality of the various instruments.
Why not do this and give us a report???
Hal Kempthorne - SJC
RV6a at SCK - Baffling
Debonair N6134V for sale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Canopies and Paint |
Hello World,
I have fabricated aluminum fairings for my windscreen/fuselage
intersection and plan on bonding these the the plexiglass using
pro-seal. I plan on painting the inside of the windscreen around the
edges using flat black enamel to hide the pro-seal from the inside. This
would look similar to the blacked out edge on automotive windshields. My
question is; Will the paint harm the plexiglass? I plan on using
Rustolium Satin Black Enamel.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A - N99PZ reserved
Pine Junction, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Why Not Paint Before Flight, was: Temporary paint |
>Only saying this as after the tests we removed the wings to paint
>.................
You removed the wings to paint??? I must have done something wrong!! I
found installing the wings to be a very difficult job that I would not want
to do again. How do you do it?
I was thinking I could just mask off the wings to paint fuselage and vice
versa. Seems easier than dismantling the plane. Help me here y'all as
*AGAIN* I am missing something in my thinking ahead.
On thinking ahead: I hired an old carpenter to help me frame my
house. He told me to think from the outside in and put framing where I
needed to drive nails to hold siding.
Hal Kempthorne - SJC
RV6a at SCK - Baffling
Debonair N6134V for sale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Van's Engine Gages |
I got half of mine in the panel. The others are on back order. The CHT is
not available yet. I wish they would build a OAT.
Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
==========================================================
>At Sun N Fun Van's had a proposed line of analog engine gages that
>were very
>reasonable. Does anyone know if these are available, or has anyone
>used them
>yet?
>Eric Henson
>Mason-Dixon Engineering
>(Beyond Yankee Ingenuity)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heat Mixer |
>
>I am looking for an idea on cabin heat/cooling.
The RV series airplanes have no design provision for heating. Fly only in
the summer VFR.
Mr Gretz, George O. or other entrepreneur, a stainless steel firewall
cutoff and a mixer box please. ??
Hal Kempthorne - SJC
RV6a at SCK - Baffling
Debonair N6134V for sale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel Drips (or more) |
While noone makes uncordinated turns, it seems I do so on occassion....while
no trouble, it nonetheless causes some fuel to enter the vent line....even
on the tank in use this is no problem because of a slight positive pressure
from the angled fitting used in the slip stream at the vent's opening.
What IS a problem is that if some remains in the vent line after flight and
then the day heats up, the air in the tank air expands, puts a pressure in
the vent line, and any fuel in the vent line drips out of the vent opening,
spilling on to the hangar floor.
This only happens if I have the tanks about 75% full. The amount of fuel
lost is insignificant, except for the mess (and possible danger) of fuel on
the floor.
Does anyone else have this problem? If so, what do you do? I use a bit of
hose and blow some air backwards on the vent line exit with the fuel cap off
so I can hear the air passing into the tank. If that is done it clears the
vent line and there is no drip. Unfortunately I don't always remember to do
it...
Comments please.
RV-6A Flying
Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Kachmar" <tkachmar(at)ibm.net> |
| Subject: | RV 8 Wd 822 trauma |
Thanks for all the replies on and off the list. Glad I'm not the only one
with a problem.
Still haven't heard from Van's yet on what they suggest but they got the
pictures on Monday and I expect they will take a few days to check it out.
Thanks again all.
Tom & John
RV 8 80508
Impatient to rivet the "aluminum canoe" and keep on building
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip Access Cover |
hi mark,my name is also mark phillips and i to am going to be starting on
the wings for a rv6 from the skunkworks in williamsville,ill.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 9:58 AM
Subject: RV-List: Wingtip Access Cover
>
> Listpersons ;>)
>
> Working on my first wing and seeking guidance- I would REALLY like to
> permanently attach the wingtips on my 6A (no screws!) but of course need
> access to nav/strobe lights (and antennae, if installed) A couple of
> options would be:
> (1)an access cover about 5x5" installed just forward of the main spar
> on the outboard wing bay for access through the rear LE rib lightening
> hole (easiest access)
> (2)same size cover just behind spar- would require a big hole in the
> main spar to reach through LE rib access hole, or double joints on my
> arms (which I don't have- does ACS carry these? Maybe Avery?)
> (3)an access cover cut in the bottom of the wingtip attached to
> nutplates on a reinforced flange in the wingtip opening
>
> Would like to hear pros/cons (aerodynamic issues, durability, anyones
> personal experience etc). Off-list replies fine unless you think all
> might benefit from your experience.
>
> Thanks in advance-
> >From the PossumWorks in TN
> Mark Phillips- bracing for the first wingskin riveting session!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinner(at)vcn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Imron and dimpled rivet heads |
>I'm painting my RV-6A with Imron. My tech counselor noted that the
>Imron isn't "bridging" between the sheet metal and my dimpled rivets.
> In other words, the Imron covers the rivet head and flows into the
>dimple, but leaves a tiny gap between the Imron in the dimple and the
>rivet head. My tech counselor thinks it should "bridge the gap" and
>flow together. (It does fine with countersunk rivets, however).
>Tim Lewis
>timrv6a(at)iname.com
>N47TD RV-6A, painting
>Springfield VA
>http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
>http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a/jpi.html - No JPI stuff in my airplane
Tim,
I think this is a fairly common problem. I sprayed the rivet lines on
the top surfaces of the fuse., wings, tail, etc. with a sanding primer and
then sanded 99% of it off. This left some primer in the groove between the
rivet and skin and worked very well. There was a noticable difference in
appearance between top and bottom. I used PPG Durethane for a top coat.
Two coats on the bottom surfaces, 3 coats on the top.
Bob Skinner 1995 RV6 (sold) Buffalo, WY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinner(at)vcn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F670 side skins on rv-6a |
>Thanks to everyone who replied for their help. I made several passes with
>my aviation snips untll I got as close as I could get and then took the
>aluminum down the rest of the way with a vixen file and then sanded it
>out. It took about 5 hours to get it all down but the side skins came out
>fine.
Tom,
With a belt sander, this job would take 30 minutes or so for both skins:(
> Now to figure how to bend over that flap in back on the side skins
>and then take the whole mess apart to deburr and set up for final riveting.
>yea!
For the curved part on the lower, aft portion of the side skin, we just
laid the skin on a flat surface, attached a vice grip had seamer to the
edge and pressed down while bending. It took a couple of tries to get the
flap to lay flap but turned out very well. Some builders bend the flap in
stages and you can see a series of creases in this area. I like the look
of a smooth curve. We also notched the aft side skin to match the bulkhead
(606 ?) notches and then bent both tabs out to line up with the curvature
of the forward side skin and then drilled the holes. Don't drill the holes
first before bending the tabs out or the holes won't line up. If you don't
use this method, there will be a gap that will need to be filled with
tapered shims, a long and tedious job.
Bob Skinner 1995 RV6 (sold) Buffalo, WY
>Regards,
>Tom (gonna get it out of the jig yet) Velvick
>Peoria, AZ
>rv-6a
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Hodgson" <bob(at)hodgson252.freeserve.co.uk> |
Finn,
Thanks for the reply. One problem is getting access for some of the holes
right next to rib webs - to do some of these I'd have to de-rivet the rib
enough to move it aside to make room for drill / reamer - not difficult,
just tedious.
As an alternative to:-
1 buying a 5X gun
2 making a large bucking bar to hold 'blind' inside the LE box while
3 operating the gun with the other hand, and
4 keeping everything firm and square enough not to damage anything vital
while hammering the big rivets,
I've considered bolts, but don't find reaming to tight fit easy with narrow
bolts in awkward positions, and will not accept less than proper fit as the
bolts narrow slightly under tension when torqued.
For aerobatic use, I'd be happier with the new spar; it's just the prospect
of starting again that brought on this latest crisis!
Will press on slowly with mod (using bolts) while considering new wing.
Grateful for any new info on spar and/or kits and any other experiences of
doing mod.
Thanks everybody.
Bob (UK)
RV-3 Mainspar mod
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Storage |
Please forgive the nieve question...but why?
I recently told a friend about the great lengths airplane folks go to to
'preserve' an engine. He replied with stories about how he has easily brought
cars back to life that have been sitting in someone's back yard for 10-15 years
with no problems. A good pre-lube, fresh plugs and gas and vrooom-vrooom.
Granted and minor rebuild, gaskets and such, may be necessary for top
performance - but nothing major. This guy is a real 'motor-head', so I like to
think he knows what he's talking about.
Why are Lycomings so different from Fords of Chevys?
Larry
RV-8 wings
http://BowenAero.com
--- RVer273sb(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Mark,
> I would suggest removing the push rods for long term
> storage.. Valve spring pressure on the cam displaces the
> oil leaving it prone to corrosion.
> Rv273sb Co.
>
====
Larry Bowen
RV-8 wings
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Todd <motodd(at)pol.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 engine selection?- the new IO-360-F1A-long |
What is the "best" engine for a RV-8? Obviously, there are as many
different opinions out there as there are builders and pilots. I would
suggest that it may be the new Lycoming IO-360-F1A.
I recently had the opportunity to fly a RV-8 (IO-360 200 hp, constant
speed prop, Christen inverted oil, battery in the back per Van's
recommendation) on several occasions, enjoying both "feel good" and
competition-styled aerobatics as well as less aggressive maneuvering
with a 200 pound back seat passenger (well above the aerobatics gross
weight of 1550#). All of my flights were out of a nice paved 3000 ft
strip at a density altitude of no more than 2000 feet. I have the
weight and balance data for this airplane on a spreadsheet that lets me
easily play with various scenarios.
I'm no test pilot. While I personally have some minor ergonomic
complaints with control stick and panel position, my overall impression
is that the RV-8 is fun to fly with great visibility, nice forgiving
landing gear, and that typical RV handling. There is definitely more
rudder authority compared to the RV4 and RV6 that makes aerobatics a
delight.
But there are issues regarding CG to consider. These are briefly
addressed in the recent Sport Aviation article. Please bear in mind
that the following are just my personal impressions and you are free to
disagree. I know at least one RV-8 pilot who flies great acro who would
disagree with what I'm about to say.
In solo operations, the CG tends to be near the forward edge of the
envelope. I found that I had to carry a little power and extra airspeed
into the landing flare to help me keep the nose up. For aerobatics,
stick forces ramp up very quickly and I found it difficult to pull more
than + 3.5-4 G's without using both hands on the stick (some would argue
that this may be a good thing for safety). If fact, to get it to handle
very well at all for aerobatics, it requires about 75 pounds in the
baggage compartment (moving the CG from about 10.1 to 13.8 inches aft of
leading edge). Putting a passenger in the back seat results in
delightful handling, but now I'm over the aerobatic gross weight.
I simply never found a need for the 200 horses. I could wear myself out
doing -2 to +5 G aerobatics without ever exceeding 23 squared. While I
won't argue with those who feel that there's no replacement for
displacement, I have trouble understanding why I should carry around 35+
pounds (180hp parallel valve IO-360 vs. 200hp angled valve IO-360) that
I don't use in my style of flying and that hurts my forward CG problem.
It seems such a shame to have a nimble, great-handling, airplane
hampered by such a forward CG. Until now, I would have had to buy a new
O-360 from Van's, convert it to fuel injection, and then find a forward
induction sump to swap out to get the engine I'd want.
I just heard indirectly that Lycoming is now going to make an
IO-360-F1A (180 hp nominal, parallel valve, forward facing injector,
tuned induction). If I ever build an RV-8, this is the engine I'll
probably order from Van's.
As always, your milage may vary....
Mark
RV-4 owner
KAWO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel H. Morris" <morristec(at)icdc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Storage |
Because we need maximum performance from an engine that we bet our lives on?
Seriously!
Dan Morris
RV6
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Storage
>
>Please forgive the nieve question...but why?
>
>I recently told a friend about the great lengths airplane folks go to to
>'preserve' an engine. He replied with stories about how he has easily
brought
>cars back to life that have been sitting in someone's back yard for 10-15
years
>with no problems. A good pre-lube, fresh plugs and gas and vrooom-vrooom.
>Granted and minor rebuild, gaskets and such, may be necessary for top
>performance - but nothing major. This guy is a real 'motor-head', so I
like to
>think he knows what he's talking about.
>
>Why are Lycomings so different from Fords of Chevys?
>
>Larry
>RV-8 wings
>http://BowenAero.com
>
>
>--- RVer273sb(at)aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Mark,
>> I would suggest removing the push rods for long term
>> storage.. Valve spring pressure on the cam displaces the
>> oil leaving it prone to corrosion.
>> Rv273sb Co.
>>
>
>
>====
>Larry Bowen
>RV-8 wings
>Larry(at)BowenAero.com
>http://BowenAero.com
>Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip Access Cover |
Another idea: use RMD wing tip lights. They are a little on the large side but
very much in scale with the RV's. The assembly has screwed-in mounts.... once
inside to assembly (to change bulbs), removing 4 more screws lets me inside the
wing tip enough to reach my strobes & power supplys. I mounted my tips with out
screws because of rib edge clearance. Rivets & Poly Fiber filler were my
only/easy way out.
I saw wing lockers on rv wingtips..a really good idea. 8 inch by 20 inch or
so......cheep storage to boot and allows access to any tip lightning...
ripsteel(at)edge.net on 09/22/99 10:58:54 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Wingtip Access Cover
Listpersons ;>)
Working on my first wing and seeking guidance- I would REALLY like to
permanently attach the wingtips on my 6A (no screws!) but of course need
access to nav/strobe lights (and antennae, if installed) A couple of
options would be:
(1)an access cover about 5x5" installed just forward of the main spar
on the outboard wing bay for access through the rear LE rib lightening
hole (easiest access)
(2)same size cover just behind spar- would require a big hole in the
main spar to reach through LE rib access hole, or double joints on my
arms (which I don't have- does ACS carry these? Maybe Avery?)
(3)an access cover cut in the bottom of the wingtip attached to
nutplates on a reinforced flange in the wingtip opening
Would like to hear pros/cons (aerodynamic issues, durability, anyones
personal experience etc). Off-list replies fine unless you think all
might benefit from your experience.
Thanks in advance-
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips- bracing for the first wingskin riveting session!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles P. Kuss" <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Storage |
Larry,
I'm an auto mechanic by trade. I once got a 1928 Buick running. It had
not be run in 5 years. It took all day to sort out the basic problems to
get it to run. I certainly would not have jumped in it and headed for
California in it. Running and being reliable are two seperate things.
If the car was garaged, the engine MIGHT survive 5 years. Damage is
done to auto engine internals. It simply is not as apparent, due to the
much lighter work cycle imposed on auto engines.
Lycomings must
1 Produce 100 % power for 5-15 minute intervals. Then produce 50-75%
power for hours on end. Short of a Pike's Peak hillclimb car, auto
engines never see extended (5-15 minutes) full power (or even 50%)
regimes.
2 Be light enough to get into the air. This means air cooling and
several compromises to save weight.
3 Pass a leak-down (more stringent than a compression) test annually. I
doubt that many internal combustion engines of any type could be left
sitting for 2 or more years and pass this test.
> Please forgive the nieve question...but why?
Does your Chevy engine cost $8,000-$15,000 to rebuild?? No it doesn't.
If it did, you would take better care of your car's engine. I won't even
get into the issue of safety here.
> I recently told a friend about the great lengths airplane folks go to to
> 'preserve' an engine. He replied with stories about how he has easily brought
> cars back to life that have been sitting in someone's back yard for 10-15 years
> with no problems. A good pre-lube, fresh plugs and gas and vrooom-vrooom.
> Granted and minor rebuild, gaskets and such, may be necessary for top
> performance - but nothing major. This guy is a real 'motor-head', so I like
to
> think he knows what he's talking about.
Any carburated engine which sits for 2 years or more, will need the
carb completely overhauled. When that much time passes, the fuel turns
into Jello or worse. As someone who used to own a motorcycle shop, I
often purchased bikes which had not been used for several years. There
is a considerable amount of work to prep one after an extended vacation.
Your friend may have been able to get these cars running. I'd like to
see one of them a year or two later. I'll bet they had compression loss
and oil useage problems at the very least.
> Why are Lycomings so different from Fords of Chevys?
They are designed to perform a much different task. There is no mass
production & much more liability, so replacement parts costs are high.
Remember, when your Lycoming quits, you don't just coast over to the
curb!!
Charlie Kuss
RV-8 disassembling, deburring, dimpling all my wing parts
Boca Raton, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Japundza, Bob" <bjapundza(at)dowagro.com> |
| Subject: | Imron and dimpled rivet heads |
Tim,
When I had my fuselage painted in July, we had the same problem. I would
caution against the fisheye additives because of the drawback of using it is
you get an increased chance of runs. If I had to do it again, I would use a
high-build primer along the rivet lines such as DuPont URO primer. Spray it
on with a narrow spray pattern and get just the rivet heads, then block sand
so that everything is level.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ (reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Lewis [mailto:timrv6a(at)earthlink.NET]
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 6:28 AM
Subject: RV-List: Imron and dimpled rivet heads
> ----------
> From: Tim Lewis[SMTP:TIMRV6A(at)EARTHLINK.NET]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 6:27:54 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Imron and dimpled rivet heads
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>
Listers,
I'm painting my RV-6A with Imron. My tech counselor noted that the
Imron isn't "bridging" between the sheet metal and my dimpled rivets.
In other words, the Imron covers the rivet head and flows into the
dimple, but leaves a tiny gap between the Imron in the dimple and the
rivet head. My tech counselor thinks it should "bridge the gap" and
flow together. (It does fine with countersunk rivets, however).
Technique I'm using: wash with Dawn (recommended by DuPont), 225
(acid etch, like alumiprep) with scotch brite, 226 (conversion coating,
like alodyne), Corlar (DuPont's recommended 2 part epoxy) and Imron.
I scuff sanded my wings with 400 grit after the first application didn't
"bridge the gaps" too well, and the second application bridged most
of the rivet head gaps. Tech support at DuPont suggested two
medium coats, then heavy final coat, vs one medium and one heavy
coat per the directions.
For those of you who have shot Imron (or other paints): did your
paint flow and bridge the gap between rivet heads and the
surrounding dimple?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
******
Tim Lewis
timrv6a(at)iname.com
N47TD RV-6A, painting
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a/jpi.html - No JPI stuff in my airplane
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F670 side skins on rv-6a |
>Now to figure how to bend over that flap in back on the side skins
>and then take the whole mess apart to deburr and set up for final riveting.
>yea!
>
Just went thru that part. Not as bad as I thought. I used one forward mark
and a mark every 1/2" on the aft end. Drew lines to the marks then clamped
a 2x4 to each side and bent. Don't over bend any single bend or you'll get
a crease. With 14 or so minor bends it will make it around the corner. Plus
once you get it started you can do a lot by just using your hands (no 2x4)
Good Luck.
Call if you want clarification.
Larry Olson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV3-List: New Wings ? |
Bob-
Rob Reece here checking mail while on vacation. I used bolts as did several
other builders and had no problems in accommedating the mods. Instead of
removing the wing ribs, try locating the bolts (for the angle) in a slightly
different spacing. . . .meaning as long as they are equally spaced between
the ribs, you'll have the strength needed to support the angle. you'll
notice that in Vans instructions that came with the mods, that some of their
bolts (3 ea between ribs) are not all perfectly spaced. the angle pieces
are there to support the spar flange strips by assisting in carrying the
loads of the original spar. As long as they are evenly spaced, good fit,
and torqued correctly, they will do what they are designed to do. As for
the ribs, invest in a good quality snake drill attachment. This only has a
radius on the drill end of about 3/8" and uses 1/4-28 bits, reamers, etc.
This should allow you to get as close as needed to get to the rivets closest
to the ribs. As far as slight oversizes due to drilling out of the rivets,
this can be expected on at least 1-2 of the holes. . . .face it. . . . .it's
not an easy fix to a completed wing and it has happened to the best of us
(me included). i called vans and talked to Andy Hanna about the hole that I
had, went to a NAS close tolerance bolt (1103 or 1303 if I remember
correctly) and AN364 nut and used permanent locktight and it worked like a
charm. As long as you have the edge distance. . . . . .
Give me a call or shoot me any other questions you may have concerning the
mods. Finn helped me out and I can give you a name or two of persons who
have substituted bolts for -3 rivets.
RV-3's forever!
Rob Reece
RV-3 SN45
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Hodgson <bob(at)hodgson252.freeserve.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 11:08 AM
Subject: RV3-List: New Wings ?
> --> RV3-List message posted by: "Robert Hodgson"
>
> Finn,
>
> Thanks for the reply. One problem is getting access for some of the holes
> right next to rib webs - to do some of these I'd have to de-rivet the rib
> enough to move it aside to make room for drill / reamer - not difficult,
> just tedious.
> As an alternative to:-
> 1 buying a 5X gun
> 2 making a large bucking bar to hold 'blind' inside the LE box while
> 3 operating the gun with the other hand, and
> 4 keeping everything firm and square enough not to damage anything vital
> while hammering the big rivets,
> I've considered bolts, but don't find reaming to tight fit easy with
narrow
> bolts in awkward positions, and will not accept less than proper fit as
the
> bolts narrow slightly under tension when torqued.
> For aerobatic use, I'd be happier with the new spar; it's just the
prospect
> of starting again that brought on this latest crisis!
> Will press on slowly with mod (using bolts) while considering new wing.
> Grateful for any new info on spar and/or kits and any other experiences of
> doing mod.
> Thanks everybody.
>
> Bob (UK)
> RV-3 Mainspar mod
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: All Electric |
Jerry,
We are installing the batteries behind the rear baggage compartment, we have
an IO-360 with C/S prop. Regarding location of the grounding block on the
firewall - we haven't finalized the location exactly but will most probably
locate it on the upper right side (looking forward from the pilot's seat)of
the firewall.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
Niantic, CT
*****************
>Subject: Re: RV-List: All Electric
>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:22:40 EDT
>
>
>In a message dated 9/22/1999 7:35:30 AM Central Daylight Time,
>crowbotham(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
><< Dave & I are going all electric with our RV-8A. We are just finishing up
>the
> fuselage work on our QB and will begin the system installations following
> the canopy installation (probable start - November). We are following Bob
> Nuckolls plan: which includes dual batteries >>
>
>Chuck & Dave:
>
>Where do you plan to put your second battery? Also, do you know exactly
>where
>on the firewall you will mount the groundblock?
>
>Thanks,
>Jerry Carter
>RV-8A fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip Access Cover |
pcondon(at)csc.com wrote:
Another idea: use RMD wing tip lights...(snip)
Thanks for the input, will look at them but allow me to elaborate on my
madness: I plan to fabricate my own flush tip lights (nav/strobe) and
my landing lights will be hidden elsewhere (not in LE or tip) so to have
no screws showing on end of wings, I need access covers underneath. I'm
hoping someone has done this. Will keep slogging thru the archive...
Thanks again- Mark
Subject: RV-List: Wingtip Access Cover
>
>
> Listpersons ;>)
>
> Working on my first wing and seeking guidance- I would REALLY like to
> permanently attach the wingtips on my 6A (no screws!) but of course need
> access to nav/strobe lights (and antennae, if installed) A couple of
> options would be:
> (1)an access cover about 5x5" installed just forward of the main spar
> on the outboard wing bay for access through the rear LE rib lightening
> hole (easiest access)
> (2)same size cover just behind spar- would require a big hole in the
> main spar to reach through LE rib access hole, or double joints on my
> arms (which I don't have- does ACS carry these? Maybe Avery?)
> (3)an access cover cut in the bottom of the wingtip attached to
> nutplates on a reinforced flange in the wingtip opening
>
> Would like to hear pros/cons (aerodynamic issues, durability, anyones
> personal experience etc). Off-list replies fine unless you think all
> might benefit from your experience.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Storage |
I asked an A&P how I could get oil on the cam since I will not use the
engine for another year. He said I could remove one of the cylinders and
the cam would be exposed, you could then squirt oil on the cam and
rotate the crank to distribute the oil. I am considering this. What do
you think?
Earl RV4 finishing kit
Mark Phillips wrote:
>
>
> Listers-
>
> Got my O-320 E3D recently and prepping for 2-3 year storage. It's on a
> stand (rotatable) and I will follow the once/month flip, dehydrator
> plug, seal all openings advice from Eustace Bohay (I believe it was his
> post from about 6 months ago). Question is: can I take the engine for
> a spin with the starter motor to force fresh oil through all the
> galleries/rocker covers, accessory housing etc. before finally sealing
> it up? How long should I spin it? Is this a bad idea? Should I take up
> another hobby?
>
> The oil cooler ports are plugged and I will attach a pressure gauge to
> it to make sure I get pressure. Carb not installed, will pull top plugs
> before cranking. I will also flip it to submerge the cam before doing
> this. (and turn it back over, of course!)
>
> Thanks in advance
> >From the PossumWorks in TN
> Mark Phillips- 6A wings
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Drips (or more) |
In a message dated 09/22/1999 12:59:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
fasching(at)amigo.net writes:
<<
What IS a problem is that if some remains in the vent line after flight and
then the day heats up, the air in the tank air expands, puts a pressure in
the vent line, and any fuel in the vent line drips out of the vent opening,
spilling on to the hangar floor. >>
John,
I did the first flight and test flying on an RV6A last fall and we had the
same or simular problem with fuel being pushed out of the vent with
temperature changes. I found that the vent line through tank fitting was not
tight (on the in tank vent line) on the inside of the tank. This allowed fuel
to be pushed into the vent line as the air above the fuel heated and expanded.
The fix was to remove the tank and tighten the fitting.
david faile, fairfield, ct
mcfii/a&p faa aviation safety counselor
eaa technical counselor/flight advisor
christen eagle ii since '82 (n13bf)
rv6 (n44df) started
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Why Not Paint Before Flight, was: Temporary paint |
I've had some builders warn me that if I build the plane and fly it first
and then have it painted I will experience problems with the control
surfaces being out of balance. Do you think this will be a problem?
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
svanarts(at)unionsafe.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott R McDaniels [mailto:smcdaniels(at)juno.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Why Not Paint Before Flight, was: Temporary
paint
>>
>> It is a given that I will fly my -6 before it is painted,
>
>Why?
>
>I mean, OK - you want to make sure there's no rigging problems the
>repair or tweaking of which would mess up a high $$ paint job.
>But what are the odds?
>
>Hereabouts I notice a lot of aircraft coming out of the shop ready to
>fly, paint and all. Don't know how many later tear up their paint job
>tweaking the aircraft.
>
>
My response to anyone asking me whether they should paint first or fly
first is "that depends"
Are you going to paint it or are you going to take it to someone else and
have them paint it.
If you are going to paint it yourself it is much, much, much easier to do
(especially if you are not an experienced painter) it while that airplane
is disassembled (wings removed, etc.).
There is a large # of reasons for this that I could expand on if anyone
was interested.
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
If someone else is going to paint it then fly it first. Then you have an
easy way to get it to their shop (assuming it is going to be an aircraft
paint shop that does it).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)ee.cit.ac.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip Access Cover |
Mark Phillips wrote:
> Another idea: use RMD wing tip lights...(snip)
>
> Thanks for the input, will look at them but allow me to elaborate on my
> madness: I plan to fabricate my own flush tip lights (nav/strobe) and
> my landing lights will be hidden elsewhere (not in LE or tip) so to have
> no screws showing on end of wings, I need access covers underneath. I'm
> hoping someone has done this. Will keep slogging thru the archive...
Another option that I have in the back of my mind...
How about baggage compartments in the tips? I saw somewhere (RVAtor?)
photos of an RV which had this. Basically he had cut a rectangle out of
the top of the tip. This was closed with a panel which IIRC was held in
place by piano hinge. I think a recessed camloc (or similar) was used to
keep it closed.
Anyway, once you'built this, you could have access from inside the
baggage compartment to the back of the tip light area.
Frank.
--
frankv(at)ee.cit.ac.nz Frank van der Hulst
My home page is http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics dealers |
Paul Besing wrote:
>
> Cost on the KT-76A is $1186. Beware here. Any price under $1186 is most
> likely a remanufactured unit, but they won't advertise that.
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
> http://members.home.net/rv8er
> Finish Kit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com>
> To: RV List
> Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 1:59 AM
> Subject: RV-List: Avionics dealers
>
> >
> >My Collins transponder that I purchased used started kicking thje
> >breaker and I went shopping for a King KT-76A. I thought I would show
> >you all the prices. The prices include rack and connector.
> >Gulf Coast -- $ 1195
> >Chief-- $ 1159
> >South East Aerospace-- $ 1050
> >
> >Aerosystems--no reply
> >Aerotronics-- no reply
> >I would sure try South East Aero for any future needs. The entire
> >transaction was by email.
> >Email address is
> > Southeast Aerospace and the guys name
> >was Joe Braddock in sales.
> >
> >John Kitz
> >N721JK
> >Ohio
Well, today UPS delivered a NEW KT-76A transponder still in the King antistatic
envelop. For $ 1050, I also got all the installation parts, rack, both RF
plugs{ including that high priced right angle one, molex pins, connector, nuts,
bolts, snap rings, and on and on.
Now the fun part, taking out the Collins rack and rewiring.
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Barnes <skytop(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip Access Cover |
Mark, regarding the placement of the wing tip access hole (should you use
one), a fellow builder told me of his plans to locate the access hole so he
could also get the aileron push tube out and in. He also mentioned that he
would hinge the cover and I believe he also planned to mount the strobe
lights on the cover and of course rivet the tip onto the wing.
Tom Barnes -6 canopy.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net>
Date: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 8:20 AM
Subject: RV-List: Wingtip Access Cover
>
>Listpersons ;>)
>
>Working on my first wing and seeking guidance- I would REALLY like to
>permanently attach the wingtips on my 6A (no screws!) but of course need
>access to nav/strobe lights (and antennae, if installed) A couple of
>options would be:
> (1)an access cover about 5x5" installed just forward of the main spar
>on the outboard wing bay for access through the rear LE rib lightening
>hole (easiest access)
> (2)same size cover just behind spar- would require a big hole in the
>main spar to reach through LE rib access hole, or double joints on my
>arms (which I don't have- does ACS carry these? Maybe Avery?)
> (3)an access cover cut in the bottom of the wingtip attached to
>nutplates on a reinforced flange in the wingtip opening
>
>Would like to hear pros/cons (aerodynamic issues, durability, anyones
>personal experience etc). Off-list replies fine unless you think all
>might benefit from your experience.
>
>Thanks in advance-
>From the PossumWorks in TN
>Mark Phillips- bracing for the first wingskin riveting session!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Storage |
>
> I'm an auto mechanic by trade. I once got a 1928 Buick running. It had
>not be run in 5 years.
I twisted bolts for a living for a few years too, Charlie and I feel a
strong need to to amend what you say for the benefit of those with less
knowledge.
>Lycomings must
>1 Produce 100 % power for 5-15 minute intervals.
Don't most takeoffs begin at a density altitude above sea level? That is
the only place where you can develop 100% isn't it?
Most pilots back off from full power at 500 or 1000 feet, don't they?
> Short of a Pike's Peak hillclimb car, auto
>engines never see extended (5-15 minutes) full power (or even 50%)
>regimes.
Myth. I know a 72 Chevy pickup pulling a travel trailer that humps out all
it can at 1000 to 2000 foot altitudes for many, many miles. Tiny cars
like VWs, Geo Metros are almost surely flogged along a full power on
California freeways, I5, I80 etc.
>2 Be light enough to get into the air. This means air cooling and
>several compromises to save weight.
Some autos are air cooled and some real successful airplanes were (are!)
water cooled. You don't have to have a light airplane to get in the air as
witness C5As and 747's.
>3 Pass a leak-down (more stringent than a compression) test
>annually. I
>doubt that many internal combustion engines of any type could be left
>sitting for 2 or more years and pass this test.
Depending on where they sit - either aircraft or automotive. In Boca Raton
where you live, you are probably right. (Never buy a Florida
airplane!) I suspect the airliners stored in the Mojave Desert don't need
as much anti rust treatment -
>Does your Chevy engine cost $8,000-$15,000 to rebuild?? No it doesn't.
>If it did, you would take better care of your car's engine.
Here, Charlie, you have a hit the nail on head!!! We can't afford to take
chances.
I left my older 69 Chevy pickup at Truckee Tahoe airport overwinter. We
visited it once and the snow was up to the top of the doors. I worried
that it needed to be started but decided it wasn't worth the effort to dig
it out and the engine was old. Come spring it started right up, no
problem. A few months later it began to run rough. I'd give it a hasty
hack at tuning and it would seem to improve. It seemed that the ignition
timing was way off and had to be set off the mark. Finally, I did a
thorough job and found a valve way out of adjustment. Ran better but not
quite right. In a few weeks the valve was out of adjustment again! Y'all
probably guess what is wrong. The lobe on the cam was completely
gone. For your Lyc you can't get a cam for $39.95 and stuff it in through
the grill like I did and if you could, you would be forever worried that
all the metal filings would get you.
Hal Kempthorne
Turning my new O360 weekly at SCK in sunny California where bare 4130 shows
no rust.
Hal Kempthorne - SJC
RV6a at SCK - Baffling
Debonair N6134V for sale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BSEckstein(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heat Mixer |
Related to the Cabin heat mixer thread:
Many commercially available aircraft use a sliding door to open and close
cabin heat. I notice that the swinging valve type units feature "vent waste
heat". Does anyone know if the passing of waste heat is really needed? Is
there a waste heat vent for carb heat?
It appears that the air mix box that uses two flaps to control air
temperature would work well for cabin heat/defrost if installed backward, but
there'd be no venting of waste heat.
Thanks for your thoughts
Brian Eckstein
6A Finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6160hp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Oswego Forum this weekend, bring your parts list!! |
SAY there's gonna be a great deal for attendee's on part purchases at Oswego
RV forum this weekend!! Bring your lists!!
1 RV already flew in ... at EAA chapter hanger, another RV in EAA hanger.. to
be FAA airworthiness inspected tommorrow morning.... with results to be
discussed in topic session at forum.
Bill Benedict in factory plane, Mike Seager in Factory trainer, Mark Fredrick
in F1 Rocket all scheduled to be there!!
2 other RV's in T hangers on field.....
Forecasts Sunny and mid 70's Saturday....
It's shaping up to be a great forum
See you there
David McManmon
Cicero, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: F670 side skins on rv-6a |
> >Thanks to everyone who replied for their help. I made several passes
with
> >my aviation snips untll I got as close as I could get and then took the
> >aluminum down the rest of the way with a vixen file and then sanded it
> >out. It took about 5 hours to get it all down but the side skins came
out
> >fine.
The tediousness of filing comes up fairly frequently on this list - I have
filed the last .030" - .050" or so of every edge of every sheet on my
plane. I can do a two foot edge of .032" alclad in about 10 minutes.
Maybe people aren't using the same file as I - a Nicholson Super Shear
Standard. Used the same one for the whole project, seems to work just fine
still. The only job which was in the five hour (about 10!) range was
filing the tapers on the wing spar bars.
Alex Peterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WILLMINCEY(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Prop Vendor? |
Try talking to Clark Lydick at Performance Props Inc., Patagonia,AZ
520-394-20959 before you decide. I did and I like his product on an rv-3.
I've seen his 3-blade on a Long Easy also.
Works out a semi finished prop and you fly it on your engine for your
numbers. Then send it back and he gives you the finished product. If it
doesnt work right, its your fault.
WillMincey(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oswego Forum this weekend, bring your parts list!! |
| From: | Anthony J Castellano <tcastella(at)juno.com> |
I am planning on flying there in my Bede-4 early Sat. morning.
Scott Jordan will be flying with me. He is building an RV-8 and hopes to
see some
RV-8's there.
Regards,
Tony Castellano
tcastella(at)juno.com
Hopewell Junction, NY
RV-6 (N401TC reserved)
>
>SAY there's gonna be a great deal for attendee's on part purchases at
>Oswego
>RV forum this weekend!! Bring your lists!!
>
>1 RV already flew in ... at EAA chapter hanger, another RV in EAA
>hanger.. to
>be FAA airworthiness inspected tommorrow morning.... with results to
>be
>discussed in topic session at forum.
>
>Bill Benedict in factory plane, Mike Seager in Factory trainer, Mark
>Fredrick
>in F1 Rocket all scheduled to be there!!
>
>2 other RV's in T hangers on field.....
>
>Forecasts Sunny and mid 70's Saturday....
>It's shaping up to be a great forum
>See you there
>David McManmon
>Cicero, NY
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Hirschman <dhirsch(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for RV4 Prop |
I'm looking for a wood prop for a 150-hp RV4. If anyone has one they'd
consider parting with, please contact me by phone or e-mail. Thanks in
advance . . .
Dave Hirschman
(901) 278-1468
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Storage |
Listers,
Flipping an engine over as its been called to lubricate
a out of service engine is absolutly the worst thing you can do!
This scrapes off what lube there is on the cylinder walls and
displaces oil off the bearings.
I use the pre oil method befor starting a stored engine.
This is to say I put in all 6 or 7 qts of oil using a brake bleeder
set up and pressurize it to put the oil in thru the oil gallerys
instead of the filler neck. Filling an engine totally with auto oil
for storage is not a bad idea. Then change to av oil for running..
These oppinions are strictly my own and have worked for me
Stewart RV4 273sb Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | best wood prop finish? |
Time to refinish the old barrel slat on the RV-4
What if any are the opinions on the most durable finish for wood props?
At the local Home Depot there are a couple of polyurethanes to choose from.
The most expensive is the Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane at just under $10
a quart. There is also a MacGregor's Spar Urethane that is a little
cheaper but the paint guy says it's been around a long time. Both of these
are marine spar varnish type applications and sound good to me. I get in
on some gravel runways at times so durability is going to take a front seat
to pristine finish. Since this is the Northwet it will get the occasional
run in the rain.
Some have told me that they have got hundreds of hours in the rain with
little damage. I got into a squal last May for about 5 minutes, was
running about 1800 rpm (my Cessna wouldn't turn 1800 and stay in the air)
it looked like I took an icepick to the leading edge of the prop. I
cleaned up the damage and refinished it with Varathane and it didn't hold
up very well.
What says the wisdom of all you long term wood swingers? This is my first
wood
prop.
Thanks for the help,
Mike N996RV
________________________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Emil(at)gateway.euristix.ie |
| Subject: | PREMIUM CABLE TV ....... No Extra Charge |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aname(at)gateway.euristix.ie |
| Subject: | PREMIUM CABLE TV .......No Extra Charge |
This is really COOL!
ENHANCE Your Cable TV!
EASY to assemble plans for only $7.00 !
GET THE MOST out of your cable TV by using this
SIMPLE "Fine Tuning" device! YOU WILL HAVE GREAT RESULTS!
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This Cable TV FINE TUNING DEVICE will make your
viewing experince MUCH MORE ENJOYABLE!
There is one problem though. It may accidentally receive stations that
NORMALLY are offered by your cable provider for an additional fee.
This would include:
BOX OFFICE HIT MOVIES!
PREMIUM SPORTING EVENTS!
SPECIAL INTEREST PROGRAMING!
And even ADULT ENTERTAINMENT!
You can EASILY assemble a cable fine tuner in less than 30 minutes!
You have probably seen many advertisments for similar plans.........
BUT OURS are BETTER!
We have compared it to all the others and have actually
IMPROVED the quality and SIMPLIFIED the design !!!
** We even include PHOTOS! **
OUR PLANS ARE BETTER!
We have NEW, EASY TO READ,EASY to assemble plans for only $7.00!
We have seen them advertised for as much as $29.00 and you have
to wait weeks to receive them!
WHAT THE OTHERS SAY IS TRUE!
Parts are available at "The TV HUT" or any electronics store.
Trademark rights do not allow us to use a national electronics
retail chains' name but there is one in your town!
Call and ask them BEFORE you order!
They are very familiar with these plans!
You will need these easy to obtain parts :
270-235 mini box
271-1325 2.2k ohm resistor
278-212 chasis connectors
RG59 coaxial cable #12 copper wire
Variable capacitor
They may have to special order the variable capacitor,
But WHY WAIT for a special order? WE have them!
WE have secured a supply of the capacitors directly from
the manufacturer and We WILL include one with your plans
for an ADDITIONAL $10.00 only!
All you need now is the EASY TO ASSEMBLE plans to
show you how to assemble this educational device in
30 MINUTES!
It is LEGAL, providing of course you use these plans for
EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES only. See first hand and LEARN how this
SIMPLE circuitry works! If you intend to use these plans for
any other purpose DO NOT ORDER them.
IT'S FUN TO BUILD!
We're sure you'll enjoy this project!
This is a unique opportunity for hobbiest of
ANY skill level to learn simple circuitry!
Learn how easy "Fine Tuning" is!
$ 7.00 for plans only
$10.00 for variable capacitor only
$17.00 for The easy to assemble plans and one
variable capacitor!
Please send check or money order payable to:
FINE TUNING
PMB #287
99 Park Ave.
New York, N.Y.
10016
WE pay postage and handling!
Please allow 10 days for delivery.
Thank
You
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRobert569(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Why Not Paint Before Flight, was: Temporary paint |
No, because you should always check balance of control surfaces after painting!!!!!
Mike Robertson
RV-8A QB with lots more nutplates to go (sigh!!)
In a message dated Wed, 22 Sep 1999 6:19:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Van Artsdalen,
Scott" writes:
>
> I've had some builders warn me that if I build the plane and fly it first
> and then have it painted I will experience problems with the control
> surfaces being out of balance. Do you think this will be a problem?
>
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
> Network Administrator
> Union Safe Deposit Bank
> 209-946-5116
> svanarts(at)unionsafe.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott R McDaniels [mailto:smcdaniels(at)juno.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 9:46 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Why Not Paint Before Flight, was: Temporary
> paint
>
>
>
> >>
> >> It is a given that I will fly my -6 before it is painted,
> >
> >Why?
> >
> >I mean, OK - you want to make sure there's no rigging problems the
> >repair or tweaking of which would mess up a high $$ paint job.
> >But what are the odds?
> >
> >Hereabouts I notice a lot of aircraft coming out of the shop ready to
> >fly, paint and all. Don't know how many later tear up their paint job
> >tweaking the aircraft.
> >
> >
> My response to anyone asking me whether they should paint first or fly
> first is "that depends"
>
> Are you going to paint it or are you going to take it to someone else and
> have them paint it.
>
> If you are going to paint it yourself it is much, much, much easier to do
> (especially if you are not an experienced painter) it while that airplane
> is disassembled (wings removed, etc.).
>
> There is a large # of reasons for this that I could expand on if anyone
> was interested.
>
>
> Scott McDaniels
> Former RV-6A owner
> North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
> These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
> not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
>
> If someone else is going to paint it then fly it first. Then you have an
> easy way to get it to their shop (assuming it is going to be an aircraft
> paint shop that does it).
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: PREMIUM CABLE TV .......No Extra Charge |
Clue in.. don't send this type crap to the RV-list again, or risk spam from
hell.
<< Subj: RV-List: PREMIUM CABLE TV .......No Extra Charge
Date: 9/22/99 10:00:02 PM EST
From: aname(at)gateway.euristix.ie
Sender: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
Reply-to: rv-list(at)matronics.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
This is really COOL!
ENHANCE Your Cable TV!
EASY to assemble plans for only $7.00 !
GET THE MOST out of your cable TV by using this
SIMPLE "Fine Tuning" device! YOU WILL HAVE GREAT RESULTS!
YOU will be enjoying enhanced cable viewing in just a few days!
This Cable TV FINE TUNING DEVICE will make your
viewing experince MUCH MORE ENJOYABLE!
There is one problem though. It may accidentally receive stations that
NORMALLY are offered by your cable provider for an additional fee.
This would include:
BOX OFFICE HIT MOVIES!
PREMIUM SPORTING EVENTS!
SPECIAL INTEREST PROGRAMING!
And even ADULT ENTERTAINMENT!
You can EASILY assemble a cable fine tuner in less than 30 minutes!
You have probably seen many advertisments for similar plans.........
BUT OURS are BETTER!
We have compared it to all the others and have actually
IMPROVED the quality and SIMPLIFIED the design !!!
** We even include PHOTOS! **
OUR PLANS ARE BETTER!
We have NEW, EASY TO READ,EASY to assemble plans for only $7.00!
We have seen them advertised for as much as $29.00 and you have
to wait weeks to receive them!
WHAT THE OTHERS SAY IS TRUE!
Parts are available at "The TV HUT" or any electronics store.
Trademark rights do not allow us to use a national electronics
retail chains' name but there is one in your town!
Call and ask them BEFORE you order!
They are very familiar with these plans!
You will need these easy to obtain parts :
270-235 mini box
271-1325 2.2k ohm resistor
278-212 chasis connectors
RG59 coaxial cable #12 copper wire
Variable capacitor
They may have to special order the variable capacitor,
But WHY WAIT for a special order? WE have them!
WE have secured a supply of the capacitors directly from
the manufacturer and We WILL include one with your plans
for an ADDITIONAL $10.00 only!
All you need now is the EASY TO ASSEMBLE plans to
show you how to assemble this educational device in
30 MINUTES!
It is LEGAL, providing of course you use these plans for
EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES only. See first hand and LEARN how this
SIMPLE circuitry works! If you intend to use these plans for
any other purpose DO NOT ORDER them.
IT'S FUN TO BUILD!
We're sure you'll enjoy this project!
This is a unique opportunity for hobbiest of
ANY skill level to learn simple circuitry!
Learn how easy "Fine Tuning" is!
$ 7.00 for plans only
$10.00 for variable capacitor only
$17.00 for The easy to assemble plans and one
variable capacitor!
Please send check or money order payable to:
FINE TUNING
PMB #287
99 Park Ave.
New York, N.Y.
10016
WE pay postage and handling!
Please allow 10 days for delivery.
Thank
You
----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
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From: aname(at)gateway.euristix.ie
To:
Subject: RV-List: PREMIUM CABLE TV .......No Extra Charge
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:47:21 -0700
Sender: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles P. Kuss" <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Storage |
> >Lycomings must
> >1 Produce 100 % power for 5-15 minute intervals.
>
> Don't most takeoffs begin at a density altitude above sea level? That is
> the only place where you can develop 100% isn't it?
>
> Most pilots back off from full power at 500 or 1000 feet, don't they?
Hi Hal,
If you perform a full power climb out to 8,000 feet, you will still
produce 75% power upon arriving at 8,000 feet (assuming a standard day).
> > Short of a Pike's Peak hillclimb car, auto
> >engines never see extended (5-15 minutes) full power (or even 50%)
> >regimes.
>
> Myth. I know a 72 Chevy pickup pulling a travel trailer that humps out all
> it can at 1000 to 2000 foot altitudes for many, many miles.
Hal, trucks aren't cars. Even pulling a trailer, I doubt it runs at
100% power for very long. Remember, just because an engine is at full
throttle, doesn't mean it is producing max power. It has to be at it's
peak horsepower RPM for that to occur. I would agree that the vehicle
you describe, probably is producing over 50% power on a regular basis.
As we both know Hal, truck engines of equal displacement to a car (350
Chevy is a good example) produce fewer horsepower per cubic inch. Why??
To insure longevity due to the more severe duty cycle they endure.
Tiny cars
> like VWs, Geo Metros are almost surely flogged along a full power on
> California freeways, I5, I80 etc.
Actually, a light aerodynamic car needs less power to go 60-80 mph. I
doubt the average VW Rabbit is producing more than 35 HP at 60 MPH. If
were were producing significantly more HP, the owner would soon sell it.
Why? Because it wouldn't be getting the great gas mileage he bought it
for.
> >2 Be light enough to get into the air. This means air cooling and
> >several compromises to save weight.
>
> Some autos are air cooled and some real successful airplanes were (are!)
> water cooled. You don't have to have a light airplane to get in the air as
> witness C5As and 747's.
Can't argue with you here. Remember however, we were comparing a
Lycoming 4/6 Cyl to a Chevy or Ford or whatever.
> >3 Pass a leak-down (more stringent than a compression) test
> >annually. I
> >doubt that many internal combustion engines of any type could be left
> >sitting for 2 or more years and pass this test.
>
> Depending on where they sit - either aircraft or automotive. In Boca Raton
> where you live, you are probably right. (Never buy a Florida
> airplane!) I suspect the airliners stored in the Mojave Desert don't need
> as much anti rust treatment -
True.
While a desert climate is great for engines, it's not really popular
with people. I doubt you will find nearly as many people/airplanes in a
desert as in a more temperate climate. I've been to Phoenix, so I know
that people do live there. I do also note that there sure is a lot of
open, unused space, compared to say...S. Florida. The majority of people
don't choose where they live based on the chance of rust.
You certainly do want to really look over a prospective aircraft
purchase in Florida!! :-)
> Hal Kempthorne
> Turning my new O360 weekly at SCK in sunny California where bare 4130 shows
> no rust.
Personally, I'll just remove the pushrods on any open valves, then fill
my Lycoming completely with motor oil. It can't rust if oxygen can't get
to it. This is rather difficult to do to parts totally immersed in oil.
I'll put a metal drip pan under it. Discount Auto sells some nice ones
down here for $10. A coating of LPS 3 will protect any external parts,
such as the underside of the valve heads and stems. Turning the engine
weekly is also very effective.
Just a suggestion
Charlie Kuss
RV-8
Boca Raton, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hunter9584(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Please Unsubscribe |
while you are at it, un-suscribe me too please..........hunter9584(at)aol.com
i travell too much and it is overwhelming my
mailbox........thanks......................
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Blake Harral <bharral(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heat Mixer |
Hal Kempthorne wrote:
> Mr Gretz, George O. or other entrepreneur, a stainless steel firewall
> cutoff and a mixer box please. ??
>
> Hal Kempthorne - SJC
> RV6a at SCK - Baffling
> Debonair N6134V for sale
>
Hal,
Rick Robbins makes a cutoff/mixer box that works well for the RV,
although I don't believe it is stainless. I think his company is called
Robbin's Wings.
Check the archives.
Blake Harral N72RV w/60hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jiy57(at)florence.pavilion.net (kiseciv4) |
| Subject: | Direct-Internet...leads.. your.unreached.client |
There are millions Internet users. Thousands are joining then
booming internet market each day. Have you missed your leads?
IS YOUR MARKET BEING REACHED OR LIMITED BY:
* Geographic boundaries or location
* lack of NEW leads
* lack of NEW exposure
DO YOU BELIEVE YOU HAVE A VIABLE PRODUCT OR SERVICE ?
Did you know that there is a method of marketing that costs pennies
but have the same effect as direct postal mail? This can be made
possible through recent Internet technology breakthroughs. You can
now compete with the big boys, with exposure in MASSIVE NUMBERS,
without expensive investments such as those associated with
television commercials, radio advertising, direct postal mail, or
telemarketing.
THE SOLUTION - Direct E-mail Marketing
Direct E-mail marketing is a proven method to reach a global market
with a small investment. It is more advantageous than conventional
marketing and the risk is minimal. The prospects are millions and can
be reached for much less than conventional methods. We specialize in
Direct E-mail and can send your Ad to thousands or millions of
GENERAL or TARGETED leads, nationwide or worldwide.
For info send a fax: 781 240 7780
Include the following: name email tel#
Reach your leads before competition does!
Reach your leads before competition does!
Reach your leads before competition does!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stefan King <seking(at)xoommail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: best wood prop finish? |
I wouldn't waste my time with the Helmsman Spar product on a prop. I used it
to re-finish the hardwood doors on the outside of my house here in sunny
Florida, but the finish just doesn't hold up well to the exposure of the
elements. I found myself re-coating the door almost every season, and the
stuff just cracked and peeled right off, mostly due to exposure to sunlight.
These doors were not exposed to direct contact with water, but they did get
afternoon sunlight on them, mostly the lower 1/4. This lower portion would
inevitably start cracking and peeling within a few months of application.
The most important thing to consider for things that are going to be 'outside'
in the elements (exposure to sunlight, moisture from rain, etc.) is the
product's ability to seal out moisture AND provide UV protection.
Go to a good paint supplier and spend some time talking to them about products
that contain UV protection as well. Some of the hardwood floor coatings are
very durable (they have to be, we walk around on them all the time in my house).
I had some hardwood floors installed in our home about three years ago, and
they are holding up well. Unfortunately, I'm unsure of the name of the product
they used. I'm sure a call to them would get that answer if you need it.
Stefan
Sanford, FL
RV-6 plans, building workbenches.
Michael McGee wrote:
>
> At the local Home Depot there are a couple of polyurethanes to choose from.
> The most expensive is the Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane at just under $10
> a quart
Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com
Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting
cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A J DeMarzo" <aerome(at)onramp.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Why Not Paint Before Flight, was: Temporary paint |
That may very well be, but an easy fix. Balance the control surfaces after
painting. It's the right thing to do and Van's should have some specs.
>
>I've had some builders warn me that if I build the plane and fly it first
>and then have it painted I will experience problems with the control
>surfaces being out of balance. Do you think this will be a problem?
>
>Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PREMIUM CABLE TV ....... No Extra Charge) |
How is it possible that we are getting this kind of
junk mail on our rv-list?????
My secretary's husband got into very big trouble for
making a box!!!!
--- Emil(at)gateway.euristix.ie wrote:
> Emil(at)gateway.euristix.ie
>
>
>
> This is really COOL!
>
>
>
> It is LEGAL, providing of course you use these
> plans for
> EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES only. See first hand and LEARN
> how this
> SIMPLE circuitry works! If you intend to use these
> plans for
> any other purpose DO NOT ORDER them.
>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jason baker <jjbaker(at)home.com> |
What do you guys use to prime the unclad aluminum (and anything else
that needs priming)
Jason Baker
RV4 Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jason baker <jjbaker(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | E-Mail Lists and Spam |
I have in the past month been really hit hard by unsolicited email. I
just wanted to see if anybody else had.
I am not blaming matronics, but I have been on the web to purchase lots
of aviation-related supplies and tools. One of them is either the
intentional or un-intentional culprit.
Death to Spam!
JB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick E. Kelley" <patk(at)megsinet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Direct-Internet...leads.. your.unreached.client |
And yet another! This is really suspicious, Matt. By the way, I have no desire
to be removed from the rv-list, if that wasn't clear in my previous mailings.
To the persons at jiy57(at)florence.pavilion.net, remove my email address from your
mailing list. Further attempts to email me, either in reply to this or
inadvertantly through a group list, such as the matronics lists, are unwanted
and unwarranted. Be assured, since my business is Internet consulting, that I
will pursue whatever remedies I need to in order to maintain my privacy.
kiseciv4 wrote:
>
> There are millions Internet users. Thousands are joining then
> booming internet market each day. Have you missed your leads?
>
> IS YOUR MARKET BEING REACHED OR LIMITED BY:
>
> * Geographic boundaries or location
> * lack of NEW leads
> * lack of NEW exposure
>
> DO YOU BELIEVE YOU HAVE A VIABLE PRODUCT OR SERVICE ?
>
> Did you know that there is a method of marketing that costs pennies
> but have the same effect as direct postal mail? This can be made
> possible through recent Internet technology breakthroughs. You can
> now compete with the big boys, with exposure in MASSIVE NUMBERS,
> without expensive investments such as those associated with
> television commercials, radio advertising, direct postal mail, or
> telemarketing.
>
> THE SOLUTION - Direct E-mail Marketing
>
> Direct E-mail marketing is a proven method to reach a global market
> with a small investment. It is more advantageous than conventional
> marketing and the risk is minimal. The prospects are millions and can
> be reached for much less than conventional methods. We specialize in
> Direct E-mail and can send your Ad to thousands or millions of
> GENERAL or TARGETED leads, nationwide or worldwide.
>
> For info send a fax: 781 240 7780
>
> Include the following: name email tel#
>
> Reach your leads before competition does!
> Reach your leads before competition does!
> Reach your leads before competition does!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christensen, Peter" <pchristensen(at)sel.com> |
Warning: You are about to be flamed big-time for asking this question.
I've been on this list for about a year, and if I've learned one thing, it's
don't ask questions about primer. It's become an emotional thing.
But to answer your question, I use Aircraft Spruce & Specialty's Zinc
Chromate in a spray can. Not the most economical, but good results and very
easy to use for small pieces, such as those in the empennage, and for
touch-ups.
Look in the archives (you'll get thousands of hits) for more information if
you get tired of the abuse you are about to get.
Peter Christensen
RV-6A Wings
Pittsburgh, PA
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jason baker [SMTP:jjbaker(at)home.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 9:22 AM
> To: RV LIST
> Subject: RV-List: Priming
>
>
> What do you guys use to prime the unclad aluminum (and anything else
> that needs priming)
>
> Jason Baker
> RV4 Emp
>
>
>
>
>
> -
>
> -
>
> -
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F670 side skins on rv-6a |
>
> Tom,
> With a belt sander, this job would take 30 minutes or so for both skins:(
I am sure you are right. I guess I need to get one of those 1" belt
sanders. I have spent over 3000 on tools already, what is another
100? Although, I would like to get one of Avery's pneumatic cleco
pliers. My left hand is getting bigger than my right from all the
squeezing I am doing.
> For the curved part on the lower, aft portion of the side skin, we just
>laid the skin on a flat surface, attached a vice grip had seamer to the
>edge and pressed down while bending. It took a couple of tries to get the
>flap to lay flap but turned out very well. Some builders bend the flap in
>stages and you can see a series of creases in this area. I like the look
>of a smooth curve. We also notched the aft side skin to match the bulkhead
>(606 ?) notches and then bent both tabs out to line up with the curvature
>of the forward side skin and then drilled the holes. Don't drill the holes
>first before bending the tabs out or the holes won't line up. If you don't
>use this method, there will be a gap that will need to be filled with
>tapered shims, a long and tedious job.
Thanks Bob, I will try that tonight.
Regards,
Tom Velvick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
| Subject: | Re: All Electric |
Peter,
Yes I have an all electric panel and 2 batts. but only 1 alt.
The 2 bats are more for the 2 elec ign. than redundancy but the
alternate replacement schedule that Bob suggests seems to be a good
idea. (My car batt. died just the other day without warning)
All elec panel means no need for vacuum system and the required mx.
Also you can turn off the gyros and cage them during any acro sessions
for longer life. Be sure to put attitude and T&B on separate bus. I
have AI on the essential bus and the T&B on main. Both of my batteries
are wired the same with either one able to be tied to the main bus
through the batt. relay for normal ops or directly to the essential bus
right off the pos terminal. The ignition is also wired directly to the
pos term. The only thing between the batt. and the ess. bus / ign. is
the switch and there are two of these so you have good redundancy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics dealers |
Anybody have a good list to be able to get bids via e-mail on avionics?
I haven't ever done this but would like to. What is a suggested method
for sending out bids?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Beaton <kevin.beaton(at)usaa.com> |
| Subject: | Canopy Support WD-623 |
I'm just about ready to fly and see that there is a support for the tip up
canopy. Anyone know if the parts on sheet #54 of the plans were included in
the kit? Part numbers are WD-623, WD-624 and C-625.
Thanks for the help.
Bob Cabe
San Antonio; RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
(Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id
for" ;
Thu,
23 Sep 1999 11:16:35.-0400(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | F-610 - F-612/Tailwheel Alignments |
Hi All,
I'm in a perpetual state of tweaking the bulkheads in my fuselage prior to
locking in the J-stringers and starting to skin. Currently I have the bulkheads
as cose to Van's dimensions as will still provide a smooth skin line as shown by
a tight string running along the bottom (top) and the sides.
Can anyone share any good experienced on how to then get the tail wheel mount in
place while maintaining good alignment and ensuring that the horizontal stab
will mate to the bulkheads. Any tricks or solutions from past experience would
be greatly appreciated. Just too many moving parts!!!!
Eric Henson
Coconut Creek, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | A20driver(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: best wood prop finish? |
Seem to me the local boatyard would be the best place for advise--Jim
Brown,NJ,RV-3 flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WesternAir(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | VOR/GS Ant for VS/No mod. Required!!! |
Folks....
For those of you interested in mounting your VOR/LOC/GS ant on your VS
without having to modify the 2 1/2 in. base that is common with most VOR/GS
ants on the market I finally think I found a solution to the problem.
Comant Industries makes a VOR/LOC/GS ant specifically for commander aircraft
corp, which you wont find advertised in your avionics catalogs. But any
comat dealer can order it for you. Instead of the standard 2 1/2 in circular
footprint, it claims to have (just ordered it today so I cant
verify!!).....and 2 1/2 in. long, by 1.64" wide (which tapers to 1.0" in the
front) footprint, which I think would fit much easier into our VS if it is
your desire to mount it there.
Other specifics: Model Number: CI 182 "V" diploe: 108-118/329-335 Mhz.
Wt: .5lbs Impedence: 50 ohms VSWR 3.0:1
It is a bit more expensive, but will save you the modification hassel if
your looking to keep it simple. The origional CI-159C that I purchased was
$223.....and the CI 182 model sells through chief for $339. A bit steep, but
will save some heartache and time.
Like I mentioned I have yet to receive this ant, but if it is as promised it
should save alot of folks some time and heartache.
Happy Building,
Kurt, OKC, OK
RV6A Emp...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tedd McHenry" <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
>
>
> Hal, trucks aren't cars. Even pulling a trailer, I doubt it runs at
> 100% power for very long.
This, and some related statements about percent of rated power, is where the
comparison of auto/truck engines and airplane engines often goes off the
rails. Auto engines aren't rated the way airplane engines are. An airplane
engine's rated power is defined by the amount of power it can produce for a
given duty cycle and life cycle. So, naturally, it can be expected to last
through that lifecycle. An auto engine's "rated" power isn't a power rating
in this sense at all, it's simply a measure of the peak power the engine can
produce. Because it's designed for a very different duty cycle than an
airplane engine, this power is much higher for an engine of given
displacement--often more than twice as high. If auto engine were rated the
way airplane engines are, you would find that they're cruising at a much
higher "percent of rated power" than it now appears. For a longer
discussion on this, see
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tedd/chevy.html.
> Actually, a light aerodynamic car needs less power to go 60-80 mph. I
> doubt the average VW Rabbit is producing more than 35 HP at 60 MPH. If
> were were producing significantly more HP, the owner would
> soon sell it.
> Why? Because it wouldn't be getting the great gas mileage he bought it
> for.
Not true. The fuel a car consumes is primarily a function of aerodynamics,
rolling resistance, weight, and how it is driven. Because modern auto
engines automatically optimize the fuel/air ratio under all conditions, the
engine's power capacity has little effect on mileage.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
-6 tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RWINGSPAN(at)aol.com |
<< > What do you guys use to prime the unclad aluminum (and anything else
> that needs priming) >>
Hail the primer wars...look out =)... One vote for zinc chromate
here. Excellent adhesion and corrosion protection (go to any warbird
restoration/museum and ask the mechs and look at the materials). Sprayed with
hvlp gravity feed gun. Touch up with Tempo spray cans. All available at
Aircraft Spruce.
Rich Greener
RV-8 (empenage 90%)
(still waiting for wings...do they ever come?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Canopy Support WD-623 |
I did not get these parts in my RV-6A finishing kit last year, probably
because I opted for the pneumatic strut kit.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
RV-6A canopy details (takes an eternity or even longer)
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Beaton [mailto:kevin.beaton(at)usaa.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 11:14 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Canopy Support WD-623
I'm just about ready to fly and see that there is a support
for the tip up
canopy. Anyone know if the parts on sheet #54 of the plans
were included in
the kit? Part numbers are WD-623, WD-624 and C-625.
Thanks for the help.
Bob Cabe
San Antonio; RV-6
Aircraft
Avionics, and by the generous Contributions of List
members.
RV-List:
http://www.matronics.com/rv-list
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Archive Search Engine:
http://www.matronics.com/search
Archive Browsing:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Other Email Lists:
http://www.matronics.com/other
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mferrell(at)pstindy.org |
How do I get on your mailing list?
thanks
matt ferrell
mferrell(at)pstindy.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Storage |
RVer273sb(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
> Flipping an engine over as its been called to lubricate
> a out of service engine... (snip)
Stewart-
By "flipping" I mean to put the engine in an "oilpan-up" attitude on the
engine stand (sort of like roll inverted so negative g's stuffs the oil
into the "top" of the crankcase where the cam resides)- of course the
engine is "stopped" when you do this!
No one has yet said if it's OK to crank (NOT RUN!) these things to get
'em good & lubed for storage- Maybe this'll be a first! One lister did
mention pulling the pushrod tubes (at least on those at lifting cam
positions) to keep valve spring pressure from removing oil from the
cam-to-lifter interface. This would also relieve any valve spring
pressure from the valve train as well as keep all the valves closed,
effectively sealing the cylinders. Sounds like if you keep track of
where the pushrods came from, not a bad idea...
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark "A" Phillips - working on wings, engine STILL not stored!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | AeroElectric Seminar Jan 15&16 |
The Eugene RV Builders Group is sponsering one of Bob Nuckolls AeroElectric
Connections seminars. It will be held January 15&16 at Hobby Field in
Creswell, Oregon just outside of Eugene. The cost is $150 with a $20
discount if you sign up before December 1st. Contact me off list for more
information. To see what is being offered, go to
http://www.aeroelectric.com/seminars.html
Ross Mickey
N9VT
rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Drilling Holes in Firewall |
I drilled my first non-rivet hole in the firewall -- 7/16 diameter. I used
my Unibit and had a terrible time as the Unibit tended to roll the 0.016
material instead of cleanly drilling it. I was not able to drill from both
sides to eliminate the rolled edge. The Unibit is considerably duller after
just one hole through the firewall!
What have others used to make firewall holes?
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling Holes in Firewall |
That stuff is pretty hard..what I did was drill a pilot hole with a small
bit and then opened it up with my unibit. When doing this, I used my
electric drill and turned very slowly, like cutting with a fly cutter.
Also, I lubed the bit with Boelube. Boelube is a white waxy/powder type
substance that helps keep it cool. It just shaved a little bit off at a
time and saved the unibit. Mine too had burrs on the other side, and I just
took a file and emory cloth to it when finished. I don't think there is a
way to get a perfect hole in that steel, unless anyone else has any
solutions.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Persyk <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 5:20 PM
Subject: RV-List: Drilling Holes in Firewall
>
>I drilled my first non-rivet hole in the firewall -- 7/16 diameter. I
used
>my Unibit and had a terrible time as the Unibit tended to roll the 0.016
>material instead of cleanly drilling it. I was not able to drill from both
>sides to eliminate the rolled edge. The Unibit is considerably duller
after
>just one hole through the firewall!
>
>What have others used to make firewall holes?
>
>Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
>Hampshire, IL C38
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ***********Priming************ |
PLEASE - LETS NOT START!!!
To the original questioneer (who hasn't been on long enough to know...)
Check the archive at: http://www.matronics.com/archives
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)ee.cit.ac.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: F-610 - F-612/Tailwheel Alignments |
"Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP
> Can anyone share any good experienced on how to then get the tail wheel mount
in
> place while maintaining good alignment and ensuring that the horizontal stab
> will mate to the bulkheads.
Dunno about the HS mating, but I think it's really important to get the
tailspring mount in place early. Bolt it to the F611, but clamp it to
the F612.
My experiences on this (and the bits you are about to get to) are at
<http://members.xoom.com/frankv/bunny3b.htm>
Frank.
--
frankv(at)ee.cit.ac.nz Frank van der Hulst
My home page is http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing lights |
In a message dated 9/23/99 3:45:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
bertrv(at)intellistar.net writes:
<< Ideas and suggestions on
what is the best type of lights I can install on my wings. >>
Hey Bert,
Team Rocket offers the Duckworks Lights that also go in the leading edge.
Complete installation kit includes formed lens, lamps, hardware, aluminum
parts, and all templates needed for installation on one wing. Price for these
is $69.95 ea. These are smaller that the Van's brand and are seen on alot of
RV's. I personally like the way they look. Give me a call at 561-748-2429 if
you are interested or email me at F1Rocket(at)aol.com.
Thanks!
Scott
Team Rocket, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Storage |
Thats the best suggestion I have heard so far. Thanks, Earl RV4 do not
archive
RVer273sb(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
> Flipping an engine over as its been called to lubricate
> a out of service engine is absolutly the worst thing you can do!
> This scrapes off what lube there is on the cylinder walls and
> displaces oil off the bearings.
> I use the pre oil method befor starting a stored engine.
> This is to say I put in all 6 or 7 qts of oil using a brake bleeder
> set up and pressurize it to put the oil in thru the oil gallerys
> instead of the filler neck. Filling an engine totally with auto oil
> for storage is not a bad idea. Then change to av oil for running..
> These oppinions are strictly my own and have worked for me
> Stewart RV4 273sb Co.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling Holes in Firewall |
Hi Dennis,
It's not uncommon to dull drill bits drilling stainless steel. My advice
is to use a slow turning drill. If the chips are turning blue, you have
hardened the material and you will ruin your drill bit for sure. I would use
a cutting oil recommended for stainless steel as well.
I used unibits on my firewall. Notice the plural and yes the 7/16"
segment is quite dull on all three. Knockout punches can work on the larger
holes.
Tom Brown
RV4Brown(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for RV4 Prop |
Dave Hirschman wrote:
>
>
> I'm looking for a wood prop for a 150-hp RV4. If anyone has one they'd
> consider parting with, please contact me by phone or e-mail. Thanks in
> advance . . .
> Dave Hirschman
> (901) 278-1468
>
name="woodprop.txt"
filename="woodprop.txt"
Subject: Re: RV-List: prop needed 0-320 RV-4
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:17:40 -0400
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Dale Alexander listed one last month. Sensenich wood, 84" pitch 72"
diameter with 12" backplate, frontplate, spinner and all hardware FAA
certified for $795.00. Prop had 200 hr. He listed a telco number
616-665-9524. It came off an 0-320 and RV-4
James Freeman wrote:
>
>
> Hi listers
> Posting for a friend. Need a fixed pitch prop for a 150HP 0-320 equipped
> RV-4, wood or Sensenich metal. Not too large a diameter as this is an older
> airframe with the shorter gear legs.
>
> Reply to me off list
>
> Thanks
> James Freeman
> RV-8 QB fuse
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I am using green zinc oxide on my RV4
earl, finish kit
jason baker wrote:
>
>
> What do you guys use to prime the unclad aluminum (and anything else
> that needs priming)
>
> Jason Baker
> RV4 Emp
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
oop's I meant to say green zinc chromate
earl RV4 finish kitdonotarchive
jason baker wrote:
>
>
> What do you guys use to prime the unclad aluminum (and anything else
> that needs priming)
>
> Jason Baker
> RV4 Emp
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Adrian Chick" <adrianchick(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | flap positioning |
My God this is driving me bananas. I found a little help in the archives,
but I'm going to ask again anyway. I placed the aileron in trail by lining
up the outboard end with the tooling holes. Then, placed a staightedge
along the main spar and rear spar, hanging down past the aileron, took two
measurements from the aileron, etc. (you know the drill). What's really
bugging the heck out of me though is that the forward tooling hole in the
root flap rib is off center. Actually, I couldn't even see the tooling hole
for the actuator arm, but I placed a rib for the other flap over top of it
as a reference. What's the deal here? I've got to really bow the skin out
to get the tooling holes to line up in the root end. I would say to heck
with the tooling holes, but that's how I got my starting measurement on the
aileron. Maybe that's why the actuator arm covers up that tooling hole, so
this won't happen?????
Adrian Chick
Nashville, TN
RV-6A wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling Holes in Firewall |
Dennis Persyk wrote:
> I drilled my first non-rivet hole in the firewall -- 7/16 diameter. I used
> my Unibit and had a terrible time as the Unibit tended to roll the 0.016
> material instead of cleanly drilling it.
I have found that the SS is very malleable at first and work hardens in a about
10 milliseconds. My first hole came out just as yours did and left me with a
very dull unibit. I could sharpen it to cut aluminum but on test scraps of SS
the same problem arose. I bit the bullet and bought a new Unibit and all my
problems were solved. Slow speed, Sharp Unibit, plenty of lube (oil, or boelube)
and not to much pressure. The idea is to keep the bit cutting at all times. If
it spins without cutting the SS becomes harder, hence more pressure needed to
cut, starts slipping again without cutting and soon you have a dull unibit and
a
rolled hole.
We sure get spoiled working with the aluminum parts.
Gary Zilik - Off to Rocky Mountain RVator's flyin. Since I'm the Pres., guess I
should go.
RV-6A - N99PZ reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pat Kirkpatrick <aerocrafters(at)netscape.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank building assistance |
Hi Folks!
I just started up a new business and one of the primary goals is to offer a
fuel tank building service for the RV community. I have been on this list for
about two years now and I keep hearing about the tortures of Pro Seal. I am
working with a couple of other RV builders, both completed and finishing, to
provide this service.
We will offer any level of help you wish, from completely building the tanks
from raw materials or just the tank sealing with ready to go parts. We will
guarentee NO LEAKS for 6 months AFTER you are flying and we WILL NOT use
SLOSH.
If anyone would be interested in this service Please send an E-Mail to
Aerocrafters(at)netscape.net with a contact name and number and we will give you
a call to discuss shipping and pricing.
We should have a WEB page up in the next couple of weeks.
Thanks for the bandwidth,
Pat Kirkpatrick
Aero Crafters
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F-610 - F-612/Tailwheel Alignments |
>> Can anyone share any good experienced on how to then get the tail wheel
mount in
>> place while maintaining good alignment and ensuring that the horizontal
stab
>> will mate to the bulkheads.
>
>Dunno about the HS mating, but I think it's really important to get the
>tailspring mount in place early. Bolt it to the F611, but clamp it to
>the F612.
>
I just got thru this stage and agree with above. However I used two 1/8"
flush rivets on F612 to the tail wheel weldment. Later you'll drill and bolt
in place with the vert stabilizer. But for now you'll want it fairly secure
so you can roll it around.
Larry Olson
Cave Creek, Az
RV6 - Riveting fuse skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Van's Parking Brake Valve |
Has anyone had any experience with Van's Parking Brake Valve?
Was putting together an order and thought I might add that item.
Thanks
Larry Olson
Cave Creek, AZ
RV6 - Riveting fuse skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | marsman(at)flash.net |
| Subject: | Re: Did You Know... |
INFO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Acker" <racker(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Cabin Heat Mixer |
> Hal,
>
> Rick Robbins makes a cutoff/mixer box that works well for the RV,
> although I don't believe it is stainless. I think his company is called
> Robbin's Wings.
The Robbins heat selector box I received has a stainless backing and
flapper, the rest is aluminum.
Rob Acker (RV-6Q, FWF stuff...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flap positioning |
I think the use of the airfoil templates is underrated - they convinced me
that the tooling holes as stated below ARE off. I highly recommend using
the airfoil templates for this. They also will convince you that the aft
wing spar (at least on the -6) is too narrow vertically, something I have
confirmed in inspecting numerous RV's. The templates are also very handy
when setting initial rig, as they hold the flap or aileron in trail.
Alex Peterson
----------
> My God this is driving me bananas. I found a little help in the
archives,
> but I'm going to ask again anyway. I placed the aileron in trail by
lining
> up the outboard end with the tooling holes. Then, placed a staightedge
> along the main spar and rear spar, hanging down past the aileron, took
two
> measurements from the aileron, etc. (you know the drill). What's really
> bugging the heck out of me though is that the forward tooling hole in the
> root flap rib is off center. Actually, I couldn't even see the tooling
hole
> for the actuator arm, but I placed a rib for the other flap over top of
it
> as a reference. What's the deal here? I've got to really bow the skin
out
> to get the tooling holes to line up in the root end. I would say to
heck
> with the tooling holes, but that's how I got my starting measurement on
the
> aileron. Maybe that's why the actuator arm covers up that tooling hole,
so
> this won't happen?????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling Holes in Firewall |
Use sharp tools, very slow speed, and absolutely use oil.
Alex Peterson
> I drilled my first non-rivet hole in the firewall -- 7/16 diameter. I
used
> my Unibit and had a terrible time as the Unibit tended to roll the 0.016
> material instead of cleanly drilling it. I was not able to drill from
both
> sides to eliminate the rolled edge. The Unibit is considerably duller
after
> just one hole through the firewall!
>
> What have others used to make firewall holes?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)mari.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flap positioning |
Hi Adrian:
I'll jump in here, as I just got my flap hung the other day.
I am not sure I understand what your problem is here. I assume that you got
your aileron hung already. I too used the tooling holes as a guide as well
as the airfoil templates to get my aileron mounts where I wanted them. Now
that you have your aileron in position, us it as a guide to install the
flap.
What I did was to position the outboard edge of the flap so that it was 1/4
inch from the edge of the aileron, and then assured myself that the trailing
edge of the flap was in line with the trailing edge of the aileron. I used
a straight edge here. Then I measured from the leading edge of the bottom
flap skin to the center of the rivet line at the trailing edge of the bottom
wing skin. I then reproduced that measurement at the root end of the flap
and confirmed it by stretching a taut string from the outboard edge of the
aileron at the trailing edge to the inboard edge of the flap, again at the
trailing edge. Seemed to work for me.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
Rv6A 25171
close to closing first wing
Peshtigo, WI
-----Original Message-----
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com <rv-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 5:02 PM
Subject: RV-List: flap positioning
>
>
>My God this is driving me bananas. I found a little help in the archives,
>but I'm going to ask again anyway. I placed the aileron in trail by lining
>up the outboard end with the tooling holes. Then, placed a staightedge
>along the main spar and rear spar, hanging down past the aileron, took two
>measurements from the aileron, etc. (you know the drill). What's really
>bugging the heck out of me though is that the forward tooling hole in the
>root flap rib is off center. Actually, I couldn't even see the tooling
hole
>for the actuator arm, but I placed a rib for the other flap over top of it
>as a reference. What's the deal here? I've got to really bow the skin out
>to get the tooling holes to line up in the root end. I would say to heck
>with the tooling holes, but that's how I got my starting measurement on the
>aileron. Maybe that's why the actuator arm covers up that tooling hole, so
>this won't happen?????
>
>
>Adrian Chick
>Nashville, TN
>RV-6A wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe3(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Landing lights, alternatives? |
Today I was in the local speed shop, and they had these little, high
intensity lights made by PIAA. The light was about 2.5" in diameter, and is
brighter then a standard car headlight. What is the potential here? Could I
mount two in the cowling? Anyone ever seen this installation before? What
would the FAA think?
Moe Colontonio
moejoe3(at)home.com
www.tabshred.com/moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing lights, alternatives? |
Moe
I was at a small flyin last weekend here in New Brunswick and there was a
Jodel there with two of these lights mounted in the air intakes of the cowl.
Looked really good and would be dead simple to install. I don't know how
the cooling would be affected though. I thought they were a good idea, I
have seen them on cars and they are really bright. I couldn't find the
owner to find out how they worked but I think they would be a good
alternative to the other options.
Joe Hine
RV4 C-FYTQ
>
>Today I was in the local speed shop, and they had these little, high
>intensity lights made by PIAA. The light was about 2.5" in diameter, and is
>brighter then a standard car headlight. What is the potential here? Could I
>mount two in the cowling? Anyone ever seen this installation before? What
>would the FAA think?
>
>Moe Colontonio
>moejoe3(at)home.com
>www.tabshred.com/moe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6160hp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Oswego Forum, Mike Seager has arrived!! other details |
RED RV6 factory trainer is at KFZY ready for 3 days of training rides.
SO:
With the FAA Airworthiness certification presented to N58DM today that now
makes 6 RV's on the field already for the forum.
Vans AC, General Manager, Bill Benedict and the RV8A is expected Friday. The
F1 Team Rocket's, Mark Fredrick also due to attend the forum.
The preregistration was a success, weather forecasts sound great and this
looks to be shaping up to be a great forum.
FLY MARKET NEWS FLASH: WICKS has agreed to our offer and thus bring your
lists cause catalog orders placed and faxed from the RV forum at KFZY (N00 if
you haven't bought a new sectional in a while) are receiving OSHKOSH sized
discounts!!!
SEE YOU this Saturday.
David McManmon,
Cicero NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles P. Kuss" <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Storage |
Tedd,
I guess I wasn't very clear. I meant that if the VW needed much more
then 30-35 HP (my guess) to go 60 mph it's fuel mileage would suffer. I
was referring to the horsepower required to CRUISE (steady state
throttle on a level road) at 60 (or 80) mph. That VW is bound to the
same laws of physics that all internal combustion engines are.
Thanks for the link to your well written editorial.
> > Actually, a light aerodynamic car needs less power to go 60-80 mph. I
> > doubt the average VW Rabbit is producing more than 35 HP at 60 MPH. If
> > were were producing significantly more HP, the owner would
> > soon sell it.
> > Why? Because it wouldn't be getting the great gas mileage he bought it
> > for.
I agree with the statements below.
> The fuel a car consumes is primarily a function of aerodynamics,
> rolling resistance, weight, and how it is driven.
Because modern auto
> engines automatically optimize the fuel/air ratio under all conditions, the
> engine's power capacity has little effect on mileage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing lights, alternatives? |
In a message dated 9/23/99 5:40:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, moejoe3(at)home.com
writes:
<< The light was about 2.5" in diameter, and is
brighter then a standard car headlight. What is the potential here? Could I
mount two in the cowling? Anyone ever seen this installation before? What
would the FAA think? >>
Moe and listers. I have seen these before, but not installed in aircraft. I
would like to know what kind of heat is produced by these small lights. It
is possible that they may generate too much heat, although they would
probably work fine. As far as the FAA goes, I am not sure they would care,
as long as they produced enough light for the application. Maybe someone
should contact PIAA for more info on these type of lights.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing lights, alternatives? |
In a message dated 9/23/99 6:03:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca writes:
<< and there was a
Jodel there with two of these lights mounted in the air intakes of the cowl.
Looked really good and would be dead simple to install. I don't know how
the cooling would be affected though. I thought they were a good idea, I
have seen them on cars and they are really bright. >>
Having them mounted in the air intakes could be made to work in your favor.
Some folks like to open up the exaust area and have the cowl with the smaller
round holes
instead. Having the lights mounted in the intakes would effectively allow
less air to flow thru, just like having the round, smaller holes, I would
think.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chriskelhand(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing lights, alternatives? |
Hi all,
I installed the Duckworth lights in both wings. They were easy to
install and I like the way they look, although I was hoping to accomplish
a little better (snugger) fit of the plexiglass lens. I did use the
strapping tape method of installing as suggested in the installation
instructions for the lights.
I was looking at some of the light installations in RV's at the Golden
West fly-in a couple weeks ago (seeing how my worksmanship, or lack
thereof, compared :) ), and I saw a couple RV's with a light installed in
the same spot, but the cutout and headlight used was round with
screws/nutplates only on the bottom side of the wing. The lenses in
these were fit nice and flush with the leading edge skin and looked very
nice. The owners weren't in the immediate vicinity, so I couldn't ask
them, but does anybody know if these were custom made by the builder or
is this a commercially available light kit?
I don't know how the two installations compare in putting out light, but
the round cutout had a better fitting lens and looked better than what I
managed with mine.
Chris Hand
RV-6A, working on wings (still)
Monterey Penninsula, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | PREMIUM CABLE TV - Solution |
Forward a copy to your local cable company.
Maybe they will be interested.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikepw(at)mindspring.com ((mike)) |
| Subject: | sheetmetal brake? |
Does anyone know where i can find plans/drawings on the net to build a
small brake press for bending sheetmetal? thanks for any info.
Regards, Mike
--
ICQ #
5381452
my ICQ email pager
5381452(at)pager.mirabilis.com
proud member of the
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (VRWC)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
>All elec panel means no need for vacuum system and the required mx.
>Also you can turn off the gyros and cage them during any acro sessions
>for longer life. Be sure to put attitude and T&B on separate bus. I
>have AI on the essential bus and the T&B on main.
The idea is that the essential buss has those things that you consider to
be essential to safe flight. If the main buss fails you lose your T&B,
which is no problem until your AI goes belly up. At that point you no
longer have basic attitude information OR rate information. If both the
T&B and AI are on the essential buss a failure of the main buss still
leaves me with both gyros so, if either gyro fails, the other is still
there.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
> Someone was asking about simple GPS 's that are available. I have the
>cheep Magelland which sells for $99.00 dollars at walmart or Kmart. I have
>used it to fly my cessna all arround the northeast and find it to be the
>best of both worlds. It has no data base, but has 100 memories and is very
>easy to program and use. It has route capability, shows actual heading and
>speed. It will even display your time of arrival based on your speed. The
>best thing is it gives you a simple compass rose with a needle and you use
>it as if you were using a VOR. No buttons to play with while flying and
>you can be looking out windshield like you should be. It runs for 48 hrs
>on two AA batteries. Its been very reliable. NY
I wrote an article for Sport Aviation several years back
about the little boater/hiker hand-helds. I've had several
of the Magellan handhelds, the GPS2000 is still my favorite
but they all work fine. Haven't even turned a VOR receiver
ON in over two years. Once you've gone cross country direct
to hit a waypoint 1 mile off the approach end of the runway
with a $100 radio, it's hard to go back! There's a copy
of the article available at:
http://home.kscable.com/aeroelectric/articles/nailgun.pdf
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Parking Brake Valve |
In a message dated 9/23/99 5:01:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
lolson(at)doitnow.com writes:
<< Has anyone had any experience with Van's Parking Brake Valve?
Was putting together an order and thought I might add that item. >>
Don't know which one Van's sells but the Cleveland one works fine for me. I
wouldn't be without it.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing lights, alternatives? |
In a message dated 9/23/99 5:46:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, moejoe3(at)home.com
writes:
<< Today I was in the local speed shop, and they had these little, high
intensity lights made by PIAA. The light was about 2.5" in diameter, and is
brighter then a standard car headlight. What is the potential here? Could I
mount two in the cowling? >>
I've seen a lot of the Lancair guys with these mounted in the intake ports
and they seem to work well. I think they are pretty hot thermally so I
wouldn't put anything within about 3" of them that could melt or burn.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trip Mellinger" <mell(at)tradezone.com> |
| Subject: | Kit Plane Bulletin Boards |
Hello RV Enthusiast,
Try this new URL for another great way to post and receive information about
your kit plane and the kit plane movement.
http://www.tradezone.com/kpb
This is a modern highly functional bulletin board run with the latest and
fastest software. You view and post information directly on the board real
time. It does not send out e-mail unless you personally instruct it to do
so and the board has many features that you can customize to your own
tastes.
The search engine is fantastic and will make it very easy to find
information on any subject related to the content of board.
I put Kit Plane Boards up on my server to provide another service for
builders like you and myself to share and receive information in a quick and
efficient manner. I am in no means trying to compete with the list server,
both list servers and bulletin boards have their value in information
exchange.
To start with, there are boards for Glasair, GlaStar, Lancair Van's RVs,
Electronics, Engine and Paint. I can add more boards upon request.
Please start posting to the board any information you feel could be of use
to other builders and flyers of kit planes. There are 4 forums at this
moment to post to for each category of plane. Construction, Flying, For
Sale and General.
The more posts we make, the more powerful the search engine will become so
post away. I look forward to reading your kit plane questions, answers, and
informative posts on Kit Plane Boards!
Sincerely,
Trip Mellinger
Glasair III N196G
kitplane(at)tradezone.com
http://www.tradezone.com/kpb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
-------------------------- /dev/console
-------------------------- /dev/console
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shirley Harding" <shirleyh(at)starwon.com.au> |
I'm using Wattle Super Etch - it has good adhesion and doesn't scratch as
easily as the zinc chromate I tried first. this product is available in
australia - don't know about other countries. It is the most economical
choice for me, since I don't want to get involved with the two pack
problems.
Shirley
RV6 tail (rest of kit arriving soon!!)
Perth
Western Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "noeldrew" <noeldrew(at)iafrica.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RC Allen Vs. Sigmatek |
Gary,
I once had an opportunity to examine the insides of various gyros at a
repair station and the instrument mechanic asked me to rank the quality by
what I saw. While they may be good value for money, the RC Allen units just
did not look like they were built to be repaired and were put at the bottom
of my list. I was disappointed as I had originally earmarked their
artificial horison for a purchase.
Perhaps I was wrong in my judgement so I will follow this theme with some
interest.
Noel Drew
RV6
Durban
South Africa
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary A. Sobek <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Date: 22 September 1999 03:39
Subject: Re: RV-List: RC Allen Vs. Sigmatek
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Pichon" <pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com> |
Jason,
I etch, alodine, and prime both clad and un-clad parts. The primer I use is a
Deft water soluble epoxy primer. It works great, and is better for both the
user and the environment. I started my project with DuPont VariPrime, but was
not happy with the results. Feel free to contact me off-line if you would like
more info.
Dean
jason baker on 09/23/99 09:21:49 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
To: RV LIST
cc: (bcc: Dean Pichon/ADLittle)
Subject: RV-List: Priming
What do you guys use to prime the unclad aluminum (and anything else
that needs priming)
Jason Baker
RV4 Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <fesenbek(at)marykay.com> |
| Subject: | Avionics dealers |
In regards to your seach for a bulletin board for used radios and such. If
you are a member try the AOPA website(www.aopa.org) and go to the members
section and then classified. They post avionics, instruments and other
goods on there. It is just a service to AOPA members though and it is for
member to member sales. If you take the necessary precautions, you can
find a good deal there every now and then.
Gary Fesenbek
RV6A
Dallas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | flap positioning |
Adrian,
It has been a while since I did this, but I distinctly remember that the
tooling holes on the flap ribs were not reliable as a reference.
Ken Harrill
RV-6, canopy
Columbia, SC
My God this is driving me bananas. I found a little
help in the archives,
but I'm going to ask again anyway. I placed the aileron
in trail by lining
up the outboard end with the tooling holes. Then,
placed a staightedge
along the main spar and rear spar, hanging down past the
aileron, took two
measurements from the aileron, etc. (you know the
drill). What's really
bugging the heck out of me though is that the forward
tooling hole in the
root flap rib is off center. Actually, I couldn't even
see the tooling hole
for the actuator arm, but I placed a rib for the other
flap over top of it
as a reference. What's the deal here? I've got to
really bow the skin out
to get the tooling holes to line up in the root end. I
would say to heck
with the tooling holes, but that's how I got my starting
measurement on the
aileron. Maybe that's why the actuator arm covers up
that tooling hole, so
this won't happen?????
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: sheetmetal brake? |
Try George Orndorf. He use to sell plans to make an 18" brake that you
could fab a Patton tank with.
Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
On Fri, 24 Sep 1999 05:31:15 GMT mikepw(at)mindspring.com ((mike)) writes:
>Does anyone know where i can find plans/drawings on the net to build a
> small brake press for bending sheetmetal? thanks for any info.
>Regards, Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shirley Hobenshield <shobenshield(at)cmsd.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Why Not Paint Before Flight, was: Temporary paint |
>You removed the wings to paint??? I must have done something wrong!! I
>found installing the wings to be a very difficult job that I would not want
>to do again. How do you do it?
>
>I was thinking I could just mask off the wings to paint fuselage and vice
>versa. Seems easier than dismantling the plane. Help me here y'all as
>*AGAIN* I am missing something in my thinking ahead.
>
>On thinking ahead: I hired an old carpenter to help me frame my
>house. He told me to think from the outside in and put framing where I
>needed to drive nails to hold siding.
>
>
Hal,
When the paint booth is only 12 feet wide removing the wings seemed like a
good idea!
We had a slight "bow" around the canopy edge on the metal airframe, I
guess we wanted the perfect Glass-air look so we did minor fill work to
blend a smooth flow. Once that was done and the Canopy ( tilt-up ) was as
perfect as we could get it the painting was done.
Removing the wings was alot easier than re-installing them. However the
purchase of an electric right angled tool really helped!
I do not think one needs to tear the aircraft apart to paint as you will
know each and every part of the machine and may not want or require to do
so.
We even glassed over the rivits on the whole air plane.( I am sure this
will draw attention) The weight addition was 13 lbs paint and filler after
flight tests. The elevator was out abit on balance but is not an issue.
Yes, mask of what ever to get the finish you want. We had decided the paint
would come later and maybe got carried away. It was nice to reassemble
though knowing we had doubled checked, flown and changed minor things
before finish.
On your outside in, story, remindes me of what the old aircraft engineer
told me, " Whip Cream on a Horse Terd "
Hopefully that whip cream goes on Hal only to really show your RV as the
true bird it is!
Ed H
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
| Subject: | Re: sheetmetal brake? |
Harbor Freight. ~$30. Works good on small (<18") jobs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Buss bar calculations . . . |
>> > Yesterday, I sat down to figure out if my busses were adequate.
Current
>> >plan is to use 1/2" strips of .031" silver. The busses are little and
>> >short, so I was mostly worried about temperature rise, less about voltage
>> >drop.
Temperature rise and voltage drop go hand-in-hand . . . loss
of energy due to voltage drop converts directly to heat. However,
thin strips of bare metal have the BETTER heat rejection than
insulated wires of the same cross section. Further, because
the strip is bolted to the terminal posts of circuit breakers
every inch or so, you can probably get by with a very thin
foil . . . buss bars tend to be thick for the purpose of making
them mechanically favorable to work with.
>> Silver? Talk about overkill! Trust me, it isn't an issue.
>>
>*** Yeah, well, I was going to make them of copper ( "Gee", said my IA, "all
>the busses in my Bonanza are copper" ) but the FSDO inspector wanted me to
>put in inspection requirements for the copper. Something like
>
> "Inspect for corrosion at annual. If corrosion is found, remove bus and
>burnish it off. Use Swiglet special tool PAQ-FIBS-1 for burnishing. Bus is
>adequately burnished when it looks like new copper. Replace bus if, after
>burnishing, it is less than 0.XX inches thick or less than 0.XX inches
>wide."
This statement probably grew out of a paragraph in AC43-13 wherein
a suggestion is made for "periodic cleaning of buss bars for
corrosion" or something like that. EAA asked me to comment
on the rewrite of AC43-13 about two years ago, I pointed out that
properly assembled hardware attaching bus bars to breakers uses
multi-tooth lockwashers or at the least, properly torqued fasteners
that create GAS TIGHT joints. If properly assembled, very corroded
bus bars can have perfectly good electrical properties because the
place where breakers and screws hit the bar are SEALED from
environmental effects. Most copper production bus bars are
tin or solder plated to retard corrosion of bare copper surfaces.
However, when clean hardware is assembled with internal tooth
lockwashers under properly torqued fasteners, that joint is
good for a lot more years than you're going to own the airplane.
The science of crimping terminals to wires calls on the same
conditions for getting two pieces of metal into intimate contact
with each other.
None-the-less, after EAA comments were forwarded to
the FAA, -and- the document went back to the techwriters
for another two years worth of work, AC43-13 is still loaded
with poorly crafted suggestions and requirements that receive
further bastardization when invoked by ignorant people with
power.
> ...Since I used silver, I was able to say something more like
>
>"Since busses are solid silver, they should remain free of electrically
>significant corrosion for the life of the airplane".
Silver is about as reactive to atmospheric stresses as copper.
Why would we need "silver polish" for the family heirlooms
were it not so? However, assembled with proper hardware and
techniques, a silver bus bar will perform no better or worse
than its copper brothers.
>...I had the silver sheet just lying around, anyway. My dad was an amateur
>jeweler, and when he died, I got all his stuff. That silver has been in the
>closet for 15 years. I'd kept it because I thought it might come in handy
>for RF projects.
I've got a couple of silver bars that I bought about 20 years
ago to silver-plate the inside surfaces of VHF antenna duplexer
cavities I was building out of copper clad etched circuit board
material . . . here's where a few molecules of silver laid
on top of the copper was really worth the effort. Don't anyone
run out looking for silver strip to "update" your airplane's
bus bars . . . anyone who suggests it's either necessary or
useful simply doesn't understand the physics involved.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Burton <dburton(at)foxinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling Holes in Firewall |
Gary is right on with his information. SS is really soft and gummy, until you
spin
a cutter in it and work harden it. The secret is to keep enough pressure on a
sharp
tool to keep cutting. SS will work harden in an instant. To make perfect holes
in
thin sheet try using "chassis punches". These are two-part tools that punch out
the
exact hole size desired using pressure applied with a nut and bolt through a pilot
hole. Makes a perfect hole with almost no distortion. The drawback is that you
have to buy a separate punch for each size of hole you want to make. It is possible
that a rental yard might have these if you don't want to invest in a set. I use
a
miniature version of these which is like a pair of pliers. Good for smaller holes.
Because of jaw depth they are only good for holes within an inch or so of the edge
of the sheet. Got mine from Harbor Freight. There were not expensive at all and
work great.
Gary Zilik wrote:
>
> Dennis Persyk wrote:
>
> > I drilled my first non-rivet hole in the firewall -- 7/16 diameter. I used
> > my Unibit and had a terrible time as the Unibit tended to roll the 0.016
> > material instead of cleanly drilling it.
>
> I have found that the SS is very malleable at first and work hardens in a about
> 10 milliseconds. My first hole came out just as yours did and left me with a
> very dull unibit. I could sharpen it to cut aluminum but on test scraps of SS
> the same problem arose. I bit the bullet and bought a new Unibit and all my
> problems were solved. Slow speed, Sharp Unibit, plenty of lube (oil, or boelube)
> and not to much pressure. The idea is to keep the bit cutting at all times. If
> it spins without cutting the SS becomes harder, hence more pressure needed to
> cut, starts slipping again without cutting and soon you have a dull unibit and
a
> rolled hole.
>
> We sure get spoiled working with the aluminum parts.
>
> Gary Zilik - Off to Rocky Mountain RVator's flyin. Since I'm the Pres., guess
I
> should go.
> RV-6A - N99PZ reserved
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Soft RV3 gear legs? |
I'm having a severe shimmy problem at about 20 mph, and am checking into
different causes, one of them being the possibility of soft (not heat
treated) gear legs.
The kit is #488, from '78-'79.
I've tried to determine hardness with a file and a center punch, with no
success.
With approx 340 lbs per main wheel, I have to lift a wing up more than 4
inches before the wheel will clear the ground. In other words, the gear
leg compresses 4 inches or more with a 340 lbs load.
Is this normal?
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: F670 side skins on rv-6a |
My experience is the same as yours, but only after I started using the vixen
file from Avery. Probably the same thing.
HC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wilson, James Mike" <james.mike.wilson(at)intel.com> |
| Subject: | Canopy attachment RV-4 |
I used the #6 screws to attach the canopy while I drilled the skirt. After
drilling the skirt, I removed the screws and left the holes. I just clecoed
the skirt through the canopy and pop riveted. Seems pretty strong, has not
flown yet.
MikeWilson
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott R McDaniels [mailto:smcdaniels(at)juno.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy attachment RV-4
>Fellow Listers:
>
>I am in the process of attaching my canopy to the canopy frame. The
>initial
>holes in the plexi and the tubular frame have been drilled and the
>first
>preliminary fit using clecoes was perfect. I had originally intended
>to
>attach the canopy using #6 SS screws and rivnuts instead of pop
>rivets.
>But, I
>now find this doesn't work because after installing the rivnuts to the
>tubular frame at the front (where the front canopy skirt is), the
>thickness
>of the rivnuts positions the canopy forward slightly so that all the
>holes
>to
>the rear are not aligned. How can I bee this stupid??
>
>I have tapped the #6 screw holes from the front
>skirt aft and now will have to drill out the rivnuts at the front. I
>will
>then have 3/16" holes that need to be filled, drilled, and tapped if I
>want
>to continue the idea of using screws and not pop rivets.
>
>Any ideas on a super strong, bullet proof filler that I can use on
>these
>holes that can be drilled and tapped. This evening I am testing JB
>Weld on
>a test piece and see how it works in the morning.
>
>Also has anyone attached their canopy using just #6 screws tapped only
>into
>the tubular frame (along with some type of thread locker)? Again, all
>this
>instead of pop rivets.
>
>
>Doug
>
Doug,
I have only installed one RV-4 canopy but it was done using a type of
rivnut that used to be supplied in the kit. They were very low profile.
I do not recall using anything as a spacer to account for the hight of
the rivnut.
I just drilled the holes, installed the rivnuts, screwed on the canopy
and skirts.
I think their use was discontinued because of the rivets being less
trouble and some builders had problems with screws binding up and
spinning the rivnuts. The canopy I used them on I installed them with
epoxy.
Call the office and ask for someone that has been there a while.
They may still have some laying around some where.
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RocketRider2(at)aol.com |
Listers,
Today is a very sad day. A divorce forces the sale of my Harmon Rocket
(HR2). I have the kit and all instruments...everything except engine and prop
needed to build the plane.
Here is a list of what I have:
Empennage:
Empennage is complete, bottom of skins are left open for your inspection of
rivets of all surfaces.
Wings:
Wings were built by BAC. All parts are gold anodized. The wings have the
landing lights installed already by BAC. I have heated pitot tube. Top and
bottom main skins are .032 skins. All control surfaces are .020 skins. Bottom
skins are left open for your inspection of rivet work.
Fuselage:
All bulkheads are completed. All skins are available for assy. i have a
steel jig to complete work.
Finish kit:
I have the finish kit of a lifetime. I have a chrome spinner, Vetterman
exhaust fuel pump, aux fuel pump, sigma-teck VSI, turn and bank, airspeed,
Artificial horizon, DG, altimeter, compass, all circuit breakers, all wiring,
all switches, whelen strobes/power unit/tail light, fiberglass Hot-tips.
I have a woodward governor, new ELT King KR87, ADF.
I have seatbelts = 4" military with leather pads
I have the rudder cables, wheels, brakes, tires, tubes, brake lines.
I have interior map lights, stick grip.
The only thing that I do not have for this plane is:
Engine, prop, canopy (it is set up for the slider), wheelpants, gearleg
fairings, interesection fairings, and wing root fairings.
I have more than $46,000 invested in this plane so far and I will let it go
for the first $30,000.
I have pictures of the wings and the bulkheads available on line, email me
and I will send them to you.
Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Soft RV3 gear legs? |
FINN.
TRY LOWERING YOUR TIRE PRESSURE TO 16 TO 20 PSI., CHECK FOR WHEEL BEARING
LOOSENESS, AND BALANCE YOUR WHEEL PANTS, SEE ARCHIVES FOR THE PROCEDURE.
BILL B
RV-3, RV-8 TAIL FEATHERS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Soft RV3 gear legs? |
>
>I'm having a severe shimmy problem at about 20 mph, and am checking into
>different causes, one of them being the possibility of soft (not heat
>treated) gear legs.
>
>Finn
Finn,
I would be amazed if a heat treating issue could cause your problem.
The modulus of elasticity (which determines how stiff something of a
given shape is) shouldn't be affected by heat treating. The heat
treating will affect how much load it will take before taking a
permanent deformation, but not the stiffness.
Good luck,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (wings 85% done)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/nojpi.html - No JPI stuff in my aircraft!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Parking Brake Plumbing |
I'm getting ready to plumb the parking brake on my -6. It's the dual circuit
from Van's which I plan to put between the pilot master cyl and the wheel
cyl. Checking the archives I found comments that said not to ignore the
flow arrows but no one said which way the flow goes. Since the fluid really
flows both ways in the lines, I just want to confirm that "flow" in this
case means from the master cyl to the wheel cyl. Right?
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY (reserved) finishing kit
"Always do right- this will gratify some and astonish the rest." - Mark
Twain (1835-1910)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Soft RV3 gear legs? |
Finn, the elastic property (modulus of elasticity) is the same for low or
high tensile steel. The only difference is at what point they yield and at
what point they break. Your 4 inches of compression would be the same if
the metal was heat treated or not, provided they recover each time
(repeatable).
Alex Peterson
>
> I'm having a severe shimmy problem at about 20 mph, and am checking into
> different causes, one of them being the possibility of soft (not heat
> treated) gear legs.
>
> The kit is #488, from '78-'79.
>
> I've tried to determine hardness with a file and a center punch, with no
> success.
>
> With approx 340 lbs per main wheel, I have to lift a wing up more than 4
> inches before the wheel will clear the ground. In other words, the gear
> leg compresses 4 inches or more with a 340 lbs load.
>
> Is this normal?
>
> Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: aileron limits |
Should I use the tooling holes to set the limits for the aileron travel?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Highly reccommended paint |
I have just re-painted my interior with Sherwin Williams Sunfire paint.
This paint is EXTREMELY durable. I had originally painted the interior with
Krylon, and could not keep it from scratching. Check out the link below for
a more detailed explanation on how it worked for me.
http://members.home.net/rv8er/paint.htm
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aileron limits |
When I installed mine just last night, the limits that Vans calls out for
hit exactly when the bellcrank hits the rib on one direction, and the
bracket hits the bearing on the other direction. there was no need to set
the limits.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
-----Original Message-----
From: JFW9855(at)aol.com <JFW9855(at)aol.com>
Date: Saturday, September 25, 1999 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: aileron limits
>
> Should I use the tooling holes to set the limits for the aileron travel?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Adrian Chick" <adrianchick(at)home.com> |
After seeing the posts about the small landing lights, I've asked a Cozy
builder where he got his. He got his from AutoZone for $30, but says they
are also sold in the JC Whitney catalog. They are 50w. They are egg
shaped; 4" at the smallest part and 6" at the largest part. He says they
produce a very strong concentrated beam, and the replacement bulbs are about
$4.00 (although he hasn't had to replace one yet). He says they are
standard equipment on some new cars such as the Lexus.
Adrian Chick
Nashville, TN
RV-6A wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles P. Kuss" <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling Holes in Firewall |
David,
Do you have the part number for these Harbor Freight punches???
Perspiring minds want to know.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8 endlessly deburring wing parts
Boca Raton, Fl.
> To make perfect holes in
> thin sheet try using "chassis punches". These are two-part tools that punch
out the
> exact hole size desired using pressure applied with a nut and bolt through a
pilot
> hole. Makes a perfect hole with almost no distortion. The drawback is that
you
> have to buy a separate punch for each size of hole you want to make. It is possible
> that a rental yard might have these if you don't want to invest in a set. I
use a
> miniature version of these which is like a pair of pliers. Good for smaller
holes.
> Because of jaw depth they are only good for holes within an inch or so of the
edge
> of the sheet. Got mine from Harbor Freight. There were not expensive at all
and
> work great.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
Calling all Aerodynamicists...
Does anyone know the formula for calculating flat-plate drag at various
airspeeds or have any suggestions where I might get this info?
Tennessee is a little short on rocket scientists (at least where I
live!!)
Thanks for any input...
from the PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips 6A STILL working on left wing, possibly hiring out the
right?!?!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rv8abuild(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Navaid autopilot and electric trim |
Listers,
I'm considering installing the Navaid autopilot in my 8A. My question is,
since the navaid has a "trim control" function, would it be wise to leave off
my electric aileron trim? As I understand it, both devices trim via servos
attached to the control column or aileron push rods. Any thoughts or
opinions, positive or negative, are appeciated.
Thanks,
Jerry Carter
RV-8A fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Navaid autopilot and electric trim |
Jerry: I had a Navaid autopilot in my last RV-6, in regard to the question
you had about ail trim and autopilot. I had a manual trim that used a
bungee spring to the control and an Navaid also to the column. They did
not seem to cause any problem. I would trim out the manual trim first, and
then use the autopilot trim as fuel was burned off. And occasionally when
you could see the auto pilot was working hard to stay in trim I would turn
off autopilot and re trim the manual. I plan on using the manual trim in my
new RV. I think the electric trim would even be a better option. Hope this
helps.
Harvey Sigmon - RV-6AQB- Wing stuff
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rv8abuild(at)aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 1999 8:44 AM
Subject: RV-List: Navaid autopilot and electric trim
>
> Listers,
>
> I'm considering installing the Navaid autopilot in my 8A. My question is,
> since the navaid has a "trim control" function, would it be wise to leave
off
> my electric aileron trim? As I understand it, both devices trim via
servos
> attached to the control column or aileron push rods. Any thoughts or
> opinions, positive or negative, are appeciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jerry Carter
> RV-8A fuselage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 9/25/99 4:54:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
ripsteel(at)edge.net writes:
<< Does anyone know the formula for calculating flat-plate drag at various
airspeeds or have any suggestions where I might get this info? Tennessee is
a little short on rocket scientists.>>
I have these formulae which may not be completely accurate. I think they
came from Martin Hollman's book. There is always a danger in publishing only
a portion of the overall performance equations, but it will help you to
understand the interelated factors. Obviously the other half of the calcs
have to do with dynamic thrust which must balance the total drag, so keep
that in mind.
You need the following starting values:
Cd (Coefficient of Drag) RV6 is around 0.027
Vm (Maximum Speed) in fps RV6 is around 280 fps at sea level
S (Wing Area) in ft RV6 is 110
B (Wing Span) in ft RV6 is 23
GW (Gross Weight) in lb RV6 is 1600 to 1800
p (Air Density) in slugs/ft Sea Level is 0.002378 (for other values see
table at USA Today weather site)
pi is 3.14159
The equations are:
Vc (Cruise Speed in fps) = Vm*0.85
AR (Aspect Ratio) = B
2/S
Clc (Coefficient of lift at Vc) = GW/(.001189*Vc
2*0.83*S)
Cdo (Corrected Coefficient of Drag) = ((Cd+Clc
2)/(pi*0.83*AR))+Cd
q (Dynamic Pressure in psf) = (0.5*p*Vm
2)
Dfp (flat plate area in ft) = S*Cdo
Dt (Total Drag in lb) = Dfp*q
I have these incorporated into a spreadsheet with various other performance
calcs which we did for the replica P-38 development and will run in Quattro
Pro. If you want it, let me know.
-GV= (rocket scientist)-(much)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314(at)azstarnet.com (tom sargent) |
| Subject: | RV-6 top skin question |
I am about to drill the F-674 top fuselage skin on the RV-6. I have
the Tip-up canopy. The manual says to trim the forward edge of the skin
(for the window over the baggage compartment) and to "fit it as you did the
F-675", that's the rear top skin.
Two Questions:
1) Should it be trimmed BEFORE it is drilled to the bulk head? Seems
that might make it harder to handle.
2) Should it be trimmed exactly as shown in the drawing (36) or should
I leave an extra inch of material to give me something to adjust when it's
time to install the window?
Thanks,
---
Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRobert569(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid autopilot and electric trim |
Just my thoughts, but unless you always plan on flying with the autopilot on, including
take-off and landing, I would install the regular trim controls.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A QB
In a message dated Sat, 25 Sep 1999 8:55:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Rv8abuild(at)aol.com
writes:
>
> Listers,
>
> I'm considering installing the Navaid autopilot in my 8A. My question is,
> since the navaid has a "trim control" function, would it be wise to leave off
> my electric aileron trim? As I understand it, both devices trim via servos
> attached to the control column or aileron push rods. Any thoughts or
> opinions, positive or negative, are appeciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jerry Carter
> RV-8A fuselage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
F= 0.004 * V
2 = 0.004 * V *V
F in pounds per sq ft
V in mph
Example: What is force at 100 mph?
F = 0.004 * V
2 = 0.004 *100 *100 = 0.004 * 10000 = 40 pounds per sq ft
Ref: Unarco Rohn Tower catalog Sheet G-3A (antenna and tower loading are
based on flat plate calculations)
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL C38
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net>
Date: Saturday, September 25, 1999 6:40 AM
Subject: RV-List: Flat Plates
>
>Calling all Aerodynamicists...
>
>Does anyone know the formula for calculating flat-plate drag at various
>airspeeds or have any suggestions where I might get this info?
>Tennessee is a little short on rocket scientists (at least where I
>live!!)
>
>Thanks for any input...
>
>from the PossumWorks in TN
>Mark Phillips 6A STILL working on left wing, possibly hiring out the
>right?!?!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <glenng(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Van's parking brake |
Hi,
Can someone give me a physical description of the parking brake valve
that Van's sell. There is no picture of it in their catalog (at least
in the catalog I have). Is it similar to the style sold in Aircraft
Spruce?
Thanks,
Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <glenng(at)megsinet.net> |
Hi.
What type of paint system is typically used on light aircraft? Single
or Two Stage?
Single stage (color paint is the final paint)
or two stage (color paint is base covered by clear coat)
I haven't bought the book on aircraft painting yet, I was just curious.
Thanks,
Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | HS610 newbie question |
Listers,
I just took delivery this week of my -6 tail kit. In building the HS
front spar, I ran into my first problem with the drawings. Drawing 3pp
calls for the radius at the ends of HS 610 and 614 to be 1/4". However,
in looking at the rivet spacing, 1/4 inch does not appear to give
adequate edge distance for the end rivets at 7 7/8". Also, if you
measure the drawing, which is half scale, the radius measures to 1/4
inch, so at full scale shouldn't it be 1/2" ? This would also give
better edge distance. Is there a revision I don't know about? I did
search the archives (I may be a newbie, but I've been a lurker for some
time) and learned some good stuff about these parts, but not the end
radius. I really want to be sure about this before putting blade to
metal.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Jeff Point
jpoint(at)execpc.com
-6 tail
Milwaukee, WI
My first post, many more to come...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dane Sheahen" <dane3(at)ibm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's parking brake |
-Glen
We will probably see one tomorrow at the Chicagoland RV-ators fly-in. I
think Scott Johnson has one on his
RV-6
Dane Sheahen
RV-8ABQ
>
>Hi,
>Can someone give me a physical description of the parking brake valve
>that Van's sell. There is no picture of it in their catalog (at least
>in the catalog I have). Is it similar to the style sold in Aircraft
>Spruce?
>
>Thanks,
>Glenn Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dane Sheahen" <dane3(at)ibm.net> |
| Subject: | RV-LIST any rvers in Las Vegas |
I am going to be in Las Vegas next Sunday Oct. 3rd are
there any RVer's out
there? Please let me know if you have any time on
Sunday afternoon for
fellow RV builder.
My Email is dane3(at)ibm.net
Dane Sheahen
RV-8a in working on landing gear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-LIST any rvers in Las Vegas |
>
>I am going to be in Las Vegas next Sunday Oct. 3rd are
>there any RVer's out
>there? Please let me know if you have any time on
>Sunday afternoon for
>fellow RV builder.
>My Email is dane3(at)ibm.net
>
>Dane Sheahen
Dane,
Head on out to Jean Nevada, about 25 miles south for the
rec.aviation.homebuilt flyin. If you buy them a beer, they will probably
let you in. I would guess that there will be several RV's there.
Regards,
Tom Velvick
Peoria, AZ
rv-6a fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Van's parking brake |
Glenn,
The one I got from Van's was made by Matco. It's a black block approx 1.5"H
x 2.5"W x .7"D (a guess, I was working with it today but didn't measure it).
Dual circuit, two inlets on the face with outlet fittings on the bottom
(inlet and outlet are perpendicular) with valve arm on the side. All
connections are -4 female pipe threads just like on the master cylinders.
Crude picture follows:
+----------------------------+
| | |
| | /-\ /-\ |
| | |IN | |IN | |
| | \-/ \-/ |
| | |
| | |
+-| |
| | |
+----+----+------+----+------+
| | | |
| | | |
+----+ +----+
OUT OUT
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY (reserved) finishing kit
"Always do right- this will gratify some and astonish the rest." - Mark
Twain (1835-1910)
>
> Hi,
> Can someone give me a physical description of the parking brake valve
> that Van's sell. There is no picture of it in their catalog (at least
> in the catalog I have). Is it similar to the style sold in Aircraft
> Spruce?
>
> Thanks,
> Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aircraft paint |
Pick and choose...I've heard both..I am going 2 stage, as if you have a run,
you sand only clear, and no color. Not only that, I will add my stripes
later, and I don't want a tape line. With the clear, you can shoot over it
and it blends in.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn & Judi <glenng(at)megsinet.net>
Date: Saturday, September 25, 1999 8:20 PM
Subject: RV-List: aircraft paint
>
>Hi.
>What type of paint system is typically used on light aircraft? Single
>or Two Stage?
>Single stage (color paint is the final paint)
>or two stage (color paint is base covered by clear coat)
>
>I haven't bought the book on aircraft painting yet, I was just curious.
>
> Thanks,
> Glenn Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid autopilot and electric trim |
I plan on using the Navaid as my trim. I will only trim it out while in
cruise on a cross country anyway (when I have the Navaid on), so I elected
to leave out the manual trim. Just my opinion, as I am not yet flying...
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
-----Original Message-----
From: Rv8abuild(at)aol.com <Rv8abuild(at)aol.com>
Date: Saturday, September 25, 1999 12:49 PM
Subject: RV-List: Navaid autopilot and electric trim
>
>Listers,
>
>I'm considering installing the Navaid autopilot in my 8A. My question is,
>since the navaid has a "trim control" function, would it be wise to leave
off
>my electric aileron trim? As I understand it, both devices trim via servos
>attached to the control column or aileron push rods. Any thoughts or
>opinions, positive or negative, are appeciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jerry Carter
>RV-8A fuselage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid autopilot and electric trim |
Paul,
Install the aileron trim! The mechanical system is very simple and
inexpensive and works like a charm. As readily as the RV likes to roll,
a slight fuel or passenger imbalance will have you wishing for the trim
very quickly.
You especially don't want a plane that has a tendency to roll while you
are in the landing pattern. The Navaid will be useless for trimming when
you are at low altitude.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 21.5 hrs and manually trimmed even when running the
Navaid)
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
---------------------------
Paul Besing wrote:
>
>
> I plan on using the Navaid as my trim. I will only trim it out while in
> cruise on a cross country anyway (when I have the Navaid on), so I elected
> to leave out the manual trim. Just my opinion, as I am not yet flying...
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
> http://members.home.net/rv8er
> Finish Kit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rv8abuild(at)aol.com <Rv8abuild(at)aol.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, September 25, 1999 12:49 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Navaid autopilot and electric trim
>
> >
> >Listers,
> >
> >I'm considering installing the Navaid autopilot in my 8A. My question is,
> >since the navaid has a "trim control" function, would it be wise to leave
> off
> >my electric aileron trim? As I understand it, both devices trim via servos
> >attached to the control column or aileron push rods. Any thoughts or
> >opinions, positive or negative, are appeciated.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Jerry Carter
> >RV-8A fuselage
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Hudgins" <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Lebanon, TN Fly-In |
Just a last reminder of our Chapter 863 RV Fly-in October 2nd and 3rd in
Lebanon, TN (M54) (30 miles East of Nashville. We expect a large turn out
pending good weather. Should be a lot of fun and camaraderie. E-mail me off
list if anyone has any questions.
Dave Hudgins
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe3(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | HS610 newbie question |
The radius is 1/4", the diameter would be 1/2". That would leave exactly the
minimum edge distance. I elected to radius the ends larger then 1/4" so I
would have extra room in case I screwed up. The radius is the distance from
the center of a circle to the edge. Diameter is the distance across a circle
at it's widest point. In a nutshell, radius the ends as large as you need
to, with a margin for error built in.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe3(at)home.com
www.tabshred.com/moe
Listers,
in looking at the rivet spacing, 1/4 inch does not appear to give
adequate edge distance for the end rivets at 7 7/8".
Jeff Point
jpoint(at)execpc.com
-6 tail
Milwaukee, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 top skin question |
| From: | Blah ba Blah <daviddla(at)juno.com> |
Tom, in answer to your questions about skin aft of canopy. 1) trim after
you know the size and location of the window outline. 2) Always leave
extra material until you are happy with the fit and are ready for final
assembly. 3) The important area is at the forward sides where the skin
meets the roll over bar, it will need to match the canopy side skirts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid autopilot and electric trim |
In certificated planes and homebuilts the pitch and roll forces must be
trimmed out before engaging the autopilot. Certificated autopilots have an
annuciator to warn of out-of-trim pitch conditions.
The reason for this is that you do not want an unexpected roll or pitch
force when the autopilot is disengaged -- the autopilot should relinquish
control to the pilot in a trimmed condition.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
NavAid Devices autopilot installed
Hampshire, IL C38
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rv8abuild(at)aol.com <Rv8abuild(at)aol.com>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Saturday, September 25, 1999 12:49 PM
>Subject: RV-List: Navaid autopilot and electric trim
>
>
>>
>>Listers,
>>
>>I'm considering installing the Navaid autopilot in my 8A. My question is,
>>since the navaid has a "trim control" function, would it be wise to leave
>off
>>my electric aileron trim? As I understand it, both devices trim via
servos
>>attached to the control column or aileron push rods. Any thoughts or
>>opinions, positive or negative, are appeciated.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Jerry Carter
>>RV-8A fuselage
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
After flushing out each tank 3 times (the last 2 times there was not a spec
in the gascolator bowl), I started my 0-320 D1A (new from Vans) today.
I primed it (fuel pump and valve to the 2,3,4 cyl.)
It fired but refused to run.
I can make it run (rough) by using the accelerate pump or the primer but as
soon as I stop it does too.
It sounds like fuel starvation to me, so I checked the gascolator bowl
(just fuel in there), the line at the carb (clear), and removed the filter
in the carb. (clear as well), ran the pump through the lot and the fuel was
clear.
I removed the float bowl drain and that was clear as well and ran fuel
though the whole thing with the drain plug out. The fuel was clear.
I tried starting it again. The same thing happened. This sounds like a main
jet to me but I haven't a clue what I am doing on this NEW carb and engine.
Any other tales like this in a new engine?
Thanks
Royce Craven
Melbourne
Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Nav Aid Installations |
Nav Aid wing leveler is again in the list threads......to those installing
one in an already flying RV (airworthiness certificate already in hand) I
ask: Are you submitting the installation details to the FAA FSDO for
authority to make the changes, or do you consider it not a requirement?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
testing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 webpage update |
Listers,
I added some canopy, canopy skirt and windscreen pics to my RV8 web page.
There are also a few shots of my new seats and rear seat pan riser.
Check them out at...
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9656/fuselage6.html
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lebanon, TN Fly-In |
| From: | "Shelby Smith" <shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
Just another note.
Sam James is coming up from Florida and will be conducting a
workshop/seminar.
Steve Davis(Panelcut) is coming up with(Hopefully a sampling or his wares.
MIke Seager from Van's(although I believe he is booked)
There are also supposed to be some warbirds(P-51s(2-3).
And most importantly hopefully as many RVs as we can get to come in. We need
to set a record this year. I think it is about 40+-
----------
>From: "David Hudgins" <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com>
>To: "RV-List"
>Subject: RV-List: Lebanon, TN Fly-In
>Date: Sat, Sep 25, 1999, 7:47 PM
>
>
> Just a last reminder of our Chapter 863 RV Fly-in October 2nd and 3rd in
> Lebanon, TN (M54) (30 miles East of Nashville. We expect a large turn out
> pending good weather. Should be a lot of fun and camaraderie. E-mail me off
> list if anyone has any questions.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Travers Insurance |
Listers,
Has anyone had any experiences good or bad with Travers & Associates
Insurance? I just received a quote from them that looks REAL good...like
$200 less than Houston Casualty quoted me through the AOPA...for a MUCH
higher hull value. Of course, the "quote" came on a business reply card,
which asks (again) for all the pertinent information on my experience and
ratings. So, I have to wonder just what the premium amount they show on the
other side of the card actually means. Good grief! I just wanna fly
already! You'd think I was planning a hostile corporate takeover or sumthin.
How I actually received this quote is somewhat a mystery, as I did not
approach them directly, but did send a request into the Pilot Insurance
Center via Avweb a couple weeks ago. I guess they serve as a "clearing
house" for all the agencies who choose to play in our wacky world of winged
recreational vehicles.
Thanks folks,
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
moving to hangar VERY soon.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com> |
| Subject: | Vertical location of VS on RV-8? |
How do you know precisely where to locate the VS when mounting? There is
nothing specified in the manual, and no real vertical dimensions I can see
on dwg 27. What am I missing?
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, mounting emp, starting to look like a plane, too bad I have to
take it back off!
www.pacifier.com/~randyl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 top skin question |
Tom
I just finished where you are now. Trim the skin before you drill it to the
bulkheads. Make sure that the bulkheads are reinforced, (I used plywood
clecoed to the bulkheads) they will flex when you strap them down. If they
flex you will have crooked rivet lines. And possibly a dip in the top skin
line when looking at profile of the airplane.
I would trim 2 to 3inches outside the suggested line on the planes. I
trimmed to the 1inch line and almost ran out of overlap when I cut the aft
end of the canopy to much. Don't believe that 65inch measurement on the
plans Cut the aft end no further than the mold line until you establish how
the canopy will fit the canopy skin.
Good Luck
Cash Copeland
Oakland, Ca
N46FC(reserved) #60075
In a message dated 9/25/99 5:42:06 PM GMT Daylight Time,
sarg314(at)azstarnet.com writes:
<<
I am about to drill the F-674 top fuselage skin on the RV-6. I have
the Tip-up canopy. The manual says to trim the forward edge of the skin
(for the window over the baggage compartment) and to "fit it as you did the
F-675", that's the rear top skin.
Two Questions:
1) Should it be trimmed BEFORE it is drilled to the bulk head? Seems
that might make it harder to handle.
2) Should it be trimmed exactly as shown in the drawing (36) or should
I leave an extra inch of material to give me something to adjust when it's
time to install the window?
Thanks,
---
Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Travers Insurance |
Brian Denk wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
> Has anyone had any experiences good or bad with Travers & Associates
> Insurance? I just received a quote from them that looks REAL good...like
> $200 less than Houston Casualty quoted me through the AOPA...for a MUCH
> higher hull value.
Since you mentioned insurance, has anyone had any experience with NationAir
insurance agencies. Their insurance is called VanGuard, as in Vans aircraft.
Their quote is 20% less than Avemco for twice the liability. I only carry
liability but their insurance also has a $2000 medical payments where Avemco has
none.
If anyone has any experiences, good or bad, please reply.
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Prop extension for sale |
Fellow Listers:
One of our local builder's not on the list has the following for sale:
"I have a Vans' 2 1/4 cylindrical prop extension for a wooden prop to go in
the new
C/S short cowl. It's for an 0-320 Lycoming. I used it to help fit my cowl
but then changed my mind and bought a metal prop which has it's own 2 1/4
extension. New cost $190. Will sell for $150."
The seller is Mike Casmey and can be reached at michael.casmey(at)nwa.com
You can also contact me at my email or phone number below.
Thanks,
Doug
===========
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe3(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Vertical location of VS on RV-8? |
There is a dimension, as myself and several other builders have found out
the hard way. Look closely at the plans, there is a measurement from the
bottom of the lowest hinge bracket to the bottom of the tailwheel weldment.
It's 7+ inches. I'm not sure what drawing it's on, but you really have to
look for it. I'll look tommorrow.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe3(at)home.com
www.tabshred.com/moe
How do you know precisely where to locate the VS when mounting? There is
nothing specified in the manual, and no real vertical dimensions I can see
on dwg 27. What am I missing?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Reynolds <RVReynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical location of VS on RV-8? |
>
> How do you know precisely where to locate the VS when mounting?
I pondered the same thing when mounting my VS on my RV-6A. I think RV8
drawing numbers are the same so look at Dwg 34 and at SK-55, SK-57 and
SK-58.
Locate the lower hinge at the specified distance below the longerons.
Insure that lower and upper parts of the VS spar are centered in the aft
bulhead and drill the lower most bolt hole under sized (1/8). Check
again (and again) that the HS is "level" and that longerons in way oy
the wings are "level" and measure equal distances from the tips of the
HS to the tip of the VS near the aft spar of the VS. Clamp the aft spar
of the VS to the little angle attached to the longerons just forward of
the aft spar of the VS.
Pull strings from the forward sides to the aft VS spar. Set the LE of
the VS equal distance between the strings. (Measure from the VS aft spar
to the LE with a long strip of paper to locate the "center" of the LE
accurately.) CLAMP, don't drill, the forward spar of the VS to the
forward spar of the HS. Read on!
Run a string (dental floss) thru the bearings in the VS aft spar. Tip
the VS fore and aft until the string just touches all the aft edges or
forward edges. Reclamp the VS forward spar to the HS forward spar.
REPEAT steps 1-17, then drill.
Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A, going to cut that instrument panel
(without having the instruments).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6BLDR <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: aileron limits |
Paul Besing wrote:
>
>
> When I installed mine just last night, the limits that Vans calls out for
> hit exactly when the bellcrank hits the rib on one direction, and the
> bracket hits the bearing on the other direction. there was no need to set
> the limits.
>
Did your QB have the aileron stops installed?? If not, be sure to
install the aileron stops shown on plans sheet #16(left side, middle of
sheet). These stops determine the up aileron limit which automatically
determines the down aileron limit. I wouldn't think the bellcrank
should be impacting the angle.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6 Fuse coming soon!
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
> http://members.home.net/rv8er
> Finish Kit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JFW9855(at)aol.com <JFW9855(at)aol.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, September 25, 1999 12:05 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: aileron limits
>
> >
> > Should I use the tooling holes to set the limits for the aileron travel?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6BLDR <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HS610 newbie question |
Jeff Point wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
>
> I just took delivery this week of my -6 tail kit. In building the HS
> front spar, I ran into my first problem with the drawings. Drawing 3pp
> calls for the radius at the ends of HS 610 and 614 to be 1/4". However,
>
> in looking at the rivet spacing, 1/4 inch does not appear to give
> adequate edge distance for the end rivets at 7 7/8". Also, if you
> measure the drawing, which is half scale, the radius measures to 1/4
> inch, so at full scale shouldn't it be 1/2" ? This would also give
> better edge distance. Is there a revision I don't know about? I did
> search the archives (I may be a newbie, but I've been a lurker for some
> time) and learned some good stuff about these parts, but not the end
> radius. I really want to be sure about this before putting blade to
> metal.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.
>
> Jeff Point
> jpoint(at)execpc.com
> -6 tail
> Milwaukee, WI
>
> My first post, many more to come...
>
Welcome Jeff,
As you are discovering, you need to look things over and make sure
everything is going to work out right, before you put the blade to the
piece. There will be a lot of areas where edge distance can be below
minimum if you go strictly by the plans. When I made the HS610, I
didn't taper it and trim to length until after it was drilled to the
spar. Once the holes are there, cut it down and radius to perfect edge
distances.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6 fuselage be here soon.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fuel Level Float (sinks) |
At 82 hours the left tank went empty and no matter how much gas I put in, it
stayed there. What the heck, time to change oil anyway. Removed the tank (a
good decision to paint it separately from the wing, the paint still looks
fine), and found the level transmitter float 1/2 full of 100LL.
The way to check a brass float, like the ones that come with Van's supplied
level transmitters: Fill a pan with very hot water. Hold the float under
water, and as the air, or in my case, gas, expands, it bubbles out the leak.
I had a tiny pinhole in the grove where the float arm snaps. Drilled a small
hole in the bottom to get the gas out, and patched both holes, then rechecked
in the pan of hot water.
A recommendation for those who still can easily get at their floats, check
them for leaks before closing them up in the wing. This leak was in a place
where no logical explanation exists as to how it came about.
Bruce Patton
RV-6A 596S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Noel" <bnoel(at)ausa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nav Aid Installations |
Good point, any major change affecting flight charachteristics requires the
FAA be notified. They may just note the change or require more flight time,
but failure to do so voids the airworthiness certificate. This leaves the
insurance company a out in not having to pay on a loss. Another good reason
why a equipment list is a good idea.
B Noel, RV4 flying, A&P-IA,Safety Counselor
-----Original Message-----
From: John <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Date: Sunday, September 26, 1999 1:01 PM
Subject: RV-List: Nav Aid Installations
>
>Nav Aid wing leveler is again in the list threads......to those installing
>one in an already flying RV (airworthiness certificate already in hand) I
>ask: Are you submitting the installation details to the FAA FSDO for
>authority to make the changes, or do you consider it not a requirement?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Travers Insurance |
In a message dated 9/26/99 2:20:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jkitz(at)greenapple.com writes:
<< has anyone had any experience with NationAir
insurance agencies. Their insurance is called VanGuard, as in Vans aircraft.
Their quote is 20% less than Avemco for twice the liability. I only carry
liability but their insurance also has a $2000 medical payments where Avemco
has
none. >>
They couldn't beat the deal I have thru Falcon with AIG. I have$60K hull and
$1M liability.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | RV 8 wing questions |
Hi folks
I have two questions regarding my rv 8 wing
1. How do you route the wire(s) to the fuelsender if the fuelsender
is
in the second bay ?? Drill a hole through the center of the spar ??
2. How does one dimple the rear spar holes around the rear spar
attach
fork and reinforcement. Gring a dimple die way, way down ??
Gert rv8a n69gg
p.s. Not much meat left on the spar flange where the pitot tube comes
out.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Derek Reed" <dreed(at)cdsnet.net> |
Has anyone used an audio panel out of a Cessna 172, which is a 28v
unit[24v], in an RV. If so, how does one convert to run on 12v ? Electric
Bob?
Thanks
Derek Reed
Cutting panel for inst. RV6A
dreed(at)cdsnet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
| Subject: | Engine attachments |
I got my engine on Friday and was all ready to start hanging stuff on it
when I found out that I don't have the right hardware. (No surprise
there huh?)
My big concern is safetying of bolts/nuts. I think the engine employs
every method I've ever seen. I'm comfortable with self-locking nuts by
now and have learned how to use safety wire and cotter pins but notice
the prop gov, alt, throttle body etc. seem to use lockwashers. Is this
really the norm? I'm talking out the internally serrated type not split
ring.
Also the studs to hold accessories are mostly 5/16" 18 TPI. This is a
coarse thread. All my catalogs sell only fine threads. Where do I find
and acceptable nut to fill this need?
More to come I'm sure.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Canopies and Paint |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
>
>I have fabricated aluminum fairings for my windscreen/fuselage
>intersection and plan on bonding these the the plexiglass using
>pro-seal. I plan on painting the inside of the windscreen around the
>edges using flat black enamel to hide the pro-seal from the inside.
>This
>would look similar to the blacked out edge on automotive windshields.
>My
>question is; Will the paint harm the plexiglass? I plan on using
>Rustolium Satin Black Enamel.
>
>Gary Zilik
>RV-6A - N99PZ reserved
>Pine Junction, Colorado
>
I don't know if you ever got any kind of answer so here is what I know.
I have painted portions of the canopies with a number of different paints
(Imron, Durethane, Superflight III, etc.) with no ill effects what so
ever, but I have never tried any of the rustolium products.
I would recommend that you try some on a scrap piece trimmed from the
canopy.
BTW... you need to scuff off the gloss of the plexi in any area that you
want the paint to permanently stick to. If the surface is mirror smooth
most paints will rub/scrape off very easily.
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV 8 wing questions |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
>
>I have two questions regarding my rv 8 wing
>
>1. How do you route the wire(s) to the fuelsender if the
>fuelsender
>is
>in the second bay ?? Drill a hole through the center of the spar ??
-
The 2 airplanes (RV-8 and RV-8A) that we have done with flop tubes we
drilled small holes in the 2 inboard most "Z" brackets and routed the
wire through those holes to the wing root area.
-
>
>2. How does one dimple the rear spar holes around the rear spar
>attach
>fork and reinforcement. Gring a dimple die way, way down ??
-
The holes that are inaccessible with dimple dies can be machine
countersunk (since the spar is .040 material thickness).
I thought the manual mentioned it for this area. I will check.
-
Scott McDaniels
Former RV-6A owner
North Plains OR. smcdaniels(at)juno.com
These opinions and ideas are mine alone, and they may
not reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine attachments |
[snip]
> notice
>the prop gov, alt, throttle body etc. seem to use lockwashers. Is this
>really the norm? I'm talking out the internally serrated type not split
>ring.
Ya that's right. Seems wierd but that's how they do it.
>Also the studs to hold accessories are mostly 5/16" 18 TPI. This is a
>coarse thread. All my catalogs sell only fine threads. Where do I find
>and acceptable nut to fill this need?
I don't know why but Lyc. seems to use a lot of non AN stuff. I needed some
studs, ordered through Sacremento Skyranch. Find em in the Yeller Pages.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (flying)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Douglas <ddouglas(at)coastside.net> |
| Subject: | Facet Fuel Pump Info |
Hey Builders!
I have some information about the Facet fuel pumps used to transfer fuel
in our airplanes. To support the Pillar Point Avionics "Smart Switch"
Fuel Pump Controller, we have tested threee different models of Facet
pump: the 40171, the 40105, and the 40106. The differences fall into
two distinct categories that relate to pump-off forward and reverse
leakage flows.
Physically, the 40105 and 40
The Facet 40171 pump is the type sold by Stoddard-Hamilton Aircraft ,
Inc. (360-495-8533) to serve as a transfer pump for transferring fuel
from the auxiliary tanks to the main tanks. The 40171 costs about $54
each. The Facet 40105 and 40106 are sold by numerous suppliers,
including Aircraft Spruce and Specialties (800-824-1930 (west);
800-831-2949 (east)), Chief Aircraft (800-447-3408), Wicks
(800-221-9425) and others and typically used in the Zenith and other
aircraft for transferring fuel from an aux tank to a header tank. The
40105/6 pumps cost about $28 to $32 each.
Physically, the 40105 and 40106 are identical. Both Chief Aircraft and
Aircraft Spruce picture these pumps in their catalogs. The 40171 looks
slightly different than the 40105 / 40106 models in that the inlet and
outlet ends of the pump are about 1/4 inch longer than the 40105 / 40106
to accommodate the check and foot valves. (I haven't found any pictures
of the 40171.) Functionally, there is a world of difference between the
40171 and the 40105 / 40106.
All three model pumps have a "lift" capability and can draw fuel from
at least 3-feet. All three move the fuel at about 0.5 gal/min, or about
30 gal/h when they are operating.
In the "OFF" state, however, the differences between the pumps become
more obvious. At a 30-inch head pressure, the 40105 and 40106 pumps
have a forward "leak" rate or drain rate of about 15 gal/h. These pumps
thus flow freely in the forward direction at about one-hald the pumping
rate.... In the reverse direction, the 40105 and 40106 drain backwards
at between 0.05 ga/h to about 0.25 gal/hr, with a mean value over a
dozen tests with four different pumps of about 0.1 gal/h. (As a point
of reference, 0.1 gal/h is about one drop per second). Compare these
numbers to the 40171 pump, which showed no detectable leakage in the
"OFF" state in either the forward or reverse directions over several
hours.
The utilization implications are pretty clear: If your "from" tank is
higher that the "to" tank, you need the 40171 pump to prevent your
"from" fuel from draining into your "to" tank. If your "from" and "to"
tanks are at about the same level, you should still use the 40171 pump
to prevent an exchange of fuel. If your "from" tank is lower than your
"to" tank, you can use any of the pumps described, but if you use the
40105 or 40106, you should use a check valve on the outlet side of the
pump to present your "to" tank from draining back into your "from"
tank. Wicks lists a check valve at about $24, so cost-wise the 40171
may represent a better bargin because it has the checks built into
them....
Pillar Point Avionics offers fuel pump controllers for all of these
pumps. For the 40171 pump, PPAv provides the XFR-12-2-5F model
controller; for the 40105 and 40106 pumps, PPAv provides the
XFR-12-2-5G model controller. We developed the "G" model when we found
that the operating characteristics of the 40105 and 40106 were just
different enough from the 40171 to make control of those pumps with the
"F"-model Smart Switch less reliable than we wanted.
If you have a PPAv controller and are building a GlaStar or another
airplane that uses the 40171 pump(s), the original production "F" model
will be just fine. If you have the 40105 or 40106 pumps, you will need
the "G" model controller. If you need the "G" model controller and have
NOT been contacted by PPAv, then please contact me by email at
mailto:ddouglas(at)ppavionics.com or by fax (650-726-9567) or by telephone
(650-740-1516).
You can identify the model by looking at the mounting tab on the pump.
One side of the mounting slot will be stamped "40" and the other side
will be stamped "105", 106" or "171". If you have a different model
pump and want to use the PPAv Smart Switch Fuel Pump Controller to
reduce your aux fuel management workload, please contact us. You can
read about the PPAv Controller at
http://www.ppavionics.com
Dennis Douglas
Pillar Point Avionics, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Level Float (sinks) |
Bruce,
Thanks for the tip.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
Niantic, CT
**************************
>From: BPattonsoa(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Fuel Level Float (sinks)
>Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:37:41 EDT
>
>
>At 82 hours the left tank went empty and no matter how much gas I put in,
>it
>stayed there. What the heck, time to change oil anyway. Removed the tank
>(a
>good decision to paint it separately from the wing, the paint still looks
>fine), and found the level transmitter float 1/2 full of 100LL.
>The way to check a brass float, like the ones that come with Van's supplied
>level transmitters: Fill a pan with very hot water. Hold the float under
>water, and as the air, or in my case, gas, expands, it bubbles out the
>leak.
>I had a tiny pinhole in the grove where the float arm snaps. Drilled a
>small
>hole in the bottom to get the gas out, and patched both holes, then
>rechecked
>in the pan of hot water.
>A recommendation for those who still can easily get at their floats, check
>them for leaks before closing them up in the wing. This leak was in a
>place
>where no logical explanation exists as to how it came about.
>
>Bruce Patton
>RV-6A 596S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6 top skin question |
Right on both counts. I drilled the skin to the bulkhead and trimmed
afterwards. Also I left an extra inch for the window.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
RV-6A getting ready to set up on gear
-----Original Message-----
I am about to drill the F-674 top fuselage skin on
the RV-6. I have
the Tip-up canopy. The manual says to trim the forward edge
of the skin
(for the window over the baggage compartment) and to "fit it
as you did the
F-675", that's the rear top skin.
Two Questions:
1) Should it be trimmed BEFORE it is drilled to the
bulk head? Seems
that might make it harder to handle.
2) Should it be trimmed exactly as shown in the drawing
(36) or should
I leave an extra inch of material to give me something to
adjust when it's
time to install the window?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Thomas <wd_thomas(at)ctconnect.com> |
Anyone out there who has flown a -6A with an O-360, a full panel, and a
metal fixed pitch prop: did the weight and balance come out OK or did
you have to move the battery into the baggage compartment (or do some
other trick to balance properly)?
Bill Thomas
-6A Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Highly reccommended paint |
In a message dated 9/25/99 1:43:02 AM, rv8er(at)home.com writes:
<<http://members.home.net/rv8er/paint.htm>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cappucci, Louis" <Louis.Cappucci(at)gs.com> |
| Subject: | tip up questions |
listers,
a few questions about the construction of the tip-up canopy...
1) how much of a gap should i use at the butt joint between the forward skin
and the canopy skin/glareshield?
2) should i have the canopy side skins butt against the longeron (as the
plans show), or should i overlap? in either case, what spacing should be
used, and how can i prevent scratching the paint on the longerons or
fuselage?
3) is there a weatherstrip installed between the longeron and the canopy
frame?
thanks,
louis cappucci
rv-6a qb, tip-up
mamaroneck, ny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6 top skin question |
Slight correction. I did make a preliminary trim before drilling the skin
to the bulkhead. If you don't then the skin will not lie properly for
drilling. Then remove the skin and trim to allow proper edge distance for
the holes. Be sure to roll the edges of the skin before you dimple those
holes.
Steve Soule
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen J. Soule
Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 8:27 AM
To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-6 top skin question
Right on both counts. I drilled the skin to the bulkhead
and trimmed
afterwards. Also I left an extra inch for the window.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
RV-6A getting ready to set up on gear
-----Original Message-----
I am about to drill the F-674 top
fuselage skin on
the RV-6. I have
the Tip-up canopy. The manual says to trim
the forward edge
of the skin
(for the window over the baggage
compartment) and to "fit it
as you did the
F-675", that's the rear top skin.
Two Questions:
1) Should it be trimmed BEFORE it is
drilled to the
bulk head? Seems
that might make it harder to handle.
2) Should it be trimmed exactly as
shown in the drawing
(36) or should
I leave an extra inch of material to give me
something to
adjust when it's
time to install the window?
Aircraft
Avionics, and by the generous Contributions of List
members.
RV-List:
http://www.matronics.com/rv-list
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Archive Search Engine:
http://www.matronics.com/search
Archive Browsing:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Other Email Lists:
http://www.matronics.com/other
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: sheetmetal brake? |
We have a set of plans to build a 18-24 inch sheet metal brake that will
handle anything you will need to do for your RV. $5.00
George and Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jason baker <jjbaker(at)home.com> |
OOOOH BOY, ARE YOU RIGHT ABOUT THE EMOTIONS! :-)
Thanks to all, I have made a decision, and am proceeding to prime. I hasten to
tell everyone my solution, but suffice it to say that I arrived at my decision
by polling the responces to this post.
Once again, the enthusiasm of everyone on this list is evident in each and every
response. You guys are terriffic. ***wipes tear***.
Jason
"Christensen, Peter" wrote:
>
> Warning: You are about to be flamed big-time for asking this question.
> I've been on this list for about a year, and if I've learned one thing, it's
> don't ask questions about primer. It's become an emotional thing.
>
> But to answer your question, I use Aircraft Spruce & Specialty's Zinc
> Chromate in a spray can. Not the most economical, but good results and very
> easy to use for small pieces, such as those in the empennage, and for
> touch-ups.
>
> Look in the archives (you'll get thousands of hits) for more information if
> you get tired of the abuse you are about to get.
>
> Peter Christensen
> RV-6A Wings
> Pittsburgh, PA
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jason baker [SMTP:jjbaker(at)home.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 9:22 AM
> > To: RV LIST
> > Subject: RV-List: Priming
> >
> >
> > What do you guys use to prime the unclad aluminum (and anything else
> > that needs priming)
> >
> > Jason Baker
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wgt and Balance |
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
> Anyone out there who has flown a -6A with an O-360, a full panel, and a
> metal fixed pitch prop: did the weight and balance come out OK or did
> you have to move the battery into the baggage compartment (or do some
> other trick to balance properly)?
>
> Bill Thomas
> -6A Finish Kit
>
My airplane is as you specify except that it is a 6 instead of a 6A. The
W&B came out what I consider to be pretty much perfect with the battery in
the standard location. My metal prop is the Sensenich 72FM8 which is about
40 pounds.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP 90 Hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tip up questions |
1. Whatever is needed to keep it from catching when you open it..mine
turned out to be about 1/4" on the sides, and about 1/8" on the top..lots of
filing.
2. It has been done both ways. I elected to butt mine. I tried to put in
place where it overlaps, and it just has too much friction there, and I
think the paint would be scratched. It looks fine on the finished product
to have it butt against it. If you have not yet put your splice plates in
that join the two have together, and you wish to make them overlap, spread
the frame apart so that the skins naturally fall over the edge before you
join them together.
3. Yes.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
-----Original Message-----
From: Cappucci, Louis <Louis.Cappucci(at)gs.com>
Date: Monday, September 27, 1999 1:08 PM
Subject: RV-List: tip up questions
>
>listers,
>
>a few questions about the construction of the tip-up canopy...
>
>1) how much of a gap should i use at the butt joint between the forward
skin
>and the canopy skin/glareshield?
>
>2) should i have the canopy side skins butt against the longeron (as the
>plans show), or should i overlap? in either case, what spacing should be
>used, and how can i prevent scratching the paint on the longerons or
>fuselage?
>
>3) is there a weatherstrip installed between the longeron and the canopy
>frame?
>
>thanks,
>louis cappucci
>rv-6a qb, tip-up
>mamaroneck, ny
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JHeadric(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine attachments |
Joe Waltz-
Try your local hardware store or auto store for course thread stuff.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Von Dane <bvondane(at)atmel.com> |
Hello all...
I have browsed the archives to learn all I can on the c-frame tools and now
looking for plans to build my own... Any plans available out there? I
intend to include a "hand squeeze" option on mine to give me the feel of a
hand squeezer...
Please contact me off-list if you like...
Thanks in advance...
-Bill Von Dane
RV-8A - h-stab...
bvondane(at)atmel.com
http://members.tripod.com/rv8tor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
September 20, 1999 - September 27, 1999
RV-Archive.digest.vol-gz