RV-Archive.digest.vol-hl
December 03, 1999 - December 07, 1999
>68"x 78-80" prop for an RV-4 with 150hp. I see Thomas McIntyre advertise
>his prop as a good 230mph RV3 cruise prop with only a 71" pitch - he flew
it
>so it must work, but how? Are there big differences in the way prop makers
>determine pitch?
>
>Pat Perry
>Dallas, PA
Pat: There are significant differences in the way prop pitches are measured
and Sensenich props do not compare numerically with others. I had a 68-78
Sens wood on my 160hp -4 and it was not enough prop. With 150hp they are
probably about right. As far as the 230mph RV3, ask what rpm the speed was
achieved at. At reasonable advance ratios it was probably turning somewhere
between 3000 and 3300. If so, one might see 180-190 at 2700 in a -4. The
first two sentences in the above are from my experience. The rest is
conjecture, but springs from my own observations. Perhaps there is
something else happening in the case of the RV-3. I would suggest you find
people with props like the ones you are considering and ask for specific
performance information.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Brown <glide303(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop pitch confusion |
Yes, there is no agreed, iron-clad way to measure pitch between
manufacturers. Some, maybe most, measure from the flat underside
of the blade at .7 radius.
One of the biggest errors is to assume that less pitch means less
speed. You can get more speed out of less pitch. You just
run at full throttle and several hundred rpm above red line. This
gives you the advantage of more power. The limit is where the
engine self destructs or its life is measured in tens of hours.
Most of us will not accept normal operation above red line, so we
come back on the throttle with a low pitch prop.
Speed for a given airplane depends on power. It doesn't care what
the pitch values are stamped on the blades. Some props are a
percent or two more efficient than others and they may indeed be
a "fast" prop.
Dennis Brown
At 03:16 AM 12/4/99 GMT, you wrote:
>
>I don't get it, I'm just starting to look for a prop for my plane and I
>can't seem to get the picture on how to pick the right pitch. I looked up
>the prop spec on Sensenich's wood prop web site and found they recomend a
>68"x 78-80" prop for an RV-4 with 150hp. I see Thomas McIntyre advertise
>his prop as a good 230mph RV3 cruise prop with only a 71" pitch - he flew it
>so it must work, but how? Are there big differences in the way prop makers
>determine pitch?
>
>Pat Perry
>Dallas, PA
>RV-4 fuse almost done
>Engine being rebuilt
>I need a prop!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: Flaring Tool] |
Do you have your own special definitions for terms like "stress" and "strain"??
hal
> > So are there good reasons NOT to use steel fuel lines that I, in my
> > inexperience, am simply not aware of?
>
>I am no expert in aircraft design, but I can think of two good reasons: 1)
>airplanes use aluminum fuel lines - be extremely careful in changing
>anything from "standard" aircraft design, and 2) as the airframe moves
>under stress, strain is imparted to the fuel lines. Steel lines will see 3
>times the stress loads as aluminum when deflected the same amount. Good
>enough reasons for me.
>
>Alex Peterson
>Maple Grove, MN 6A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Prop pitch confusion |
In a message dated 12/3/99 7:47:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
pperryrv(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< I don't get it, I'm just starting to look for a prop for my plane and I
can't seem to get the picture on how to pick the right pitch. I looked up
the prop spec on Sensenich's wood prop web site and found they recommend a
68"x 78-80" prop for an RV-4 with 150hp. I see Thomas McIntyre advertise
his prop as a good 230mph RV3 cruise prop with only a 71" pitch - he flew it
so it must work, but how? Are there big differences in the way prop makers
determine pitch? >>
Yes. Pitch is not necessarily measured at the same station, the amount of
blade twist is different, the blade chord and tip configurations vary. Some
blades are straight, others curved (scimitar) to obtain certain pitch
characteristics at different torsional loadings. About the only similarity
between props from different manufacturers that fit on the same engine is
bolt circle diameter.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: Flaring Tool] |
> I fail to see why a steel line would be subjected to more stress than an
> aluminum line. See very few aluminum springs. Most automotive fuel lines
> are steel. Injector lines for aircraft under high pressure are steel. A
> simple loop in a line relieves most any destructive stresses. Where there
is
> a lot of movement, flexible hoses are placed inline even with aluminum.
>Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
If you deflect a steel line the same amount as an aluminum one, the steel
one will have three times the stress as the aluminum one. This is because
the elastic modulus of steel is three times that of aluminum. I make no
claims to whether or not this is significant, just that it is a fact. For
example, if some portion of the airframe moves .030" during flight, and
there is a line attached to it, the steel line will undergo three times the
stress (probably insignificant in either case). If the steel line has
three times the fatigue strength than the aluminum, there is equivalence.
I suspect that in most aircraft applications, it would not matter from this
viewpoint.
Alex Peterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: Flaring Tool] |
> Do you have your own special definitions for terms like "stress" and
"strain"??
>
> hal
No, just the classic ones. Strain is the physical amount something is
deformed. For example, if a 100 inch long wire is stretched 1/2", the
strain is 1/2 divided by 100, which equals .005, or .5%. Stress is force
divided by area. Strain times elastic modulus equals stress. Each
material has its own elastic modulus. The elastic modulus of aluminum is
about 10,000,000 psi. Steel is about 30,000,000 psi. These numbers for
modulus do not vary significantly with different alloys/strengths of the
materials (high strength steel has the same modulus as low strength steel,
a surprising fact). What these relationships tell us, is that for the same
deflections (strain), steel has three times the stress as aluminum. As the
airframe deflects, the steel lines attached to it will undergo three times
the stress as an aluminum one will. I'll crawl back into my engineering
hole now, and quit stirring the pot :>)
Alex Peterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Kunkel <rvator(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Flaring Tools - The Final Answer |
On page 127 of the 5th edition of the Standard Aircraft Handbook
(available from Van's & others), it states:
"The flaring tool (Fig. 6-8) used for aircraft tubing has male & female
dies ground to produce a flare of 35 to 37 degrees. Under no
circumstances is it permissible to use an automotive flaring tool that
produces a 45-degree flare".
The only thing I can't find in Chpt. 6, Aircraft Plumbing, is the
question of whether or not it is permissible to mix steel, stainless
steel, or aluminum fitting with the different types of fluid lines, but
I guess the guidelines for which type of lines to use in particular
applications addresses that question. I was wondering, just out of
curiosity only, if there is any type of dialectric (sp?) corrosion that
occurs as a result of mixing the different materials in the same
application.
Shouldn't safety of flight be our primary consideration?
Blue Skies!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: strobe positon question |
In a message dated 12/3/99 8:34:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, Bobpaulo(at)aol.com
writes:
<< if i install perturbing wing tip strobe/position lights, a tail
strobe/postion light (in lower part of rudder), and a belly strobe, must i
have additional strobe on top of fusel. or on vert stab??? >>
IMO, start with the Whelen provided guidelines in the ACS catalog. Although
it has been pointed out ad nauseum that the FAR 23 requirements do not apply
to Experimentals, I agree with Das Fed that they are probably a good
foundation for discussion. A protruding strobe on each wing tip is probably
sufficient for the desired coverage. A white tail position light is needed
unless the wing tip fixture rear lamps converge within a certain distance
(1200ft?) of the rear of the a/c.
Just try to glean the intent of the rules, use good common sense and check
with your local builders to see what Das Feds in your area are buying off.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Site: SourceRV.com! |
> I have decided to try it out for one reason alone. Drawing revisions are
> available as soon as they are approved by Van's. I must confess that I
have
> a lot of trouble understanding why anyone building any RV would not take
> advantage of every source of information available. There have been
enough
> complaints about the construction manual that I'm surprised that everyone
> isn't jumping on this opportunity to improve the quality of construction
> information at what I would consider a very nominal cost. Van's couldn't
> provide this level of support at the same cost for many reasons, including
> legal considerations. Flame away.
>
> Steve Johnson
> RV-8 #80121
Steve,
Flame? Sorry, I completely agree, and have already signed up myself already.
$24/yr is a steal for access to this kind of information.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, finish kit
www.pacifier.com/~randyl
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: Vortex Generators: a RV4 pirep |
Extra thanks for the write up on VG's. One of the things I had a hard time
getting used to was the landing speed on my RV-4. I was used to landing a
Cessna with NO flying speed left so I apent 20 hours learning how to not
land on the tailwheel with the mains still a foot off the ground.
So, my question is: How did the VG's affect your landing speed and attitude?
(This may be obvious but it's late, I've had two glasses of wine and my
fingers are typing faster than my brain).
Thanks again,
Mike RV-4 N996RV
>___________________________________________________________________________
_____
>From: Mark Todd <motodd(at)pol.net>
>Subject: RV-List: Vortex Generators: a RV4 pirep
>
>
>The archives have several inquiries about vortex generators (VG's) but I
>couldn't find any responses that gave an actual report on how they
>affected their RV. I thought the RV-List might be interested in what
>I've learned about the effects of VG's that I temporarily put on my RV4.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Benedict" <list(at)infoav.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Site: SourceRV.com! |
--> RV-List message REALLY posted by: , not the above!
I encourage anyone interested in RV aircraft to read this...
> Sounds to me like this crew is trying to con-in on a look-alike RV List
for a > profit...Jim Brown, NJ, RV- 3
Dear Jim:
I am deeply troubled by your public accusation about my intentions and this
new venture. I'd like to present a little background on the subject to help
inform you and anyone who might share your feelings about SourceRV.com.
The web site in question was developed to provide an optional, value-added
service to those interested in RV aircraft. My background is quite extensive
in RVs and Van's Aircraft. I have been Van's Webmaster for the past 4.5
years, and have done a host of other things for Van's including spending
countless hours helping to prepare RVators and Accessories Catalogs,
sweating in yellow tents at various fly-ins, etc. Most of the work I have
done has not really been "work", but rather my time volunteered to the RV
and Van's cause...I don't work for Van's and I never have. I hesitate to
think of how much time I've "volunteered"; I often question whether the
1000+ hours of time would have been better spent on things like my career
and my life.
During the past decade, I've heard from many RV builders and pilots. I've
been subscribed to the rv-list since 1994. I've read the 1,500 comments
submitted about Van's web site. I've talked to hundreds if not thousands of
RV enthusiasts, builders, and pilots throughout the country and the world. I
know Van's operation and product fairly well. Through all this interaction,
one thing has become very clear. People want more information and resources.
Much more.
The options for providing what people really wanted were quite limited. It
was too much of a resource commitment for Van's, so after five months of
consideration last spring, Van's agreed to support in principal (not $$) the
ideas I had. I've formed a company, InfoAv, to develop and present these
ideas.
Stated again, I've developed a service to present information that people
told me they wanted. Isn't this somewhat consistent with the ideas of
capitalism and the free market economy in this country? I seem to recall the
story of a young man in the 1970s who designed and built his own airplane.
Soon after others flew his airplane, they desired, they asked, they wanted
to have this airplane. In response to their pressure, not because he was
trying to make a buck, this young man made his airplane available. Like this
young man, Richard VanGrunsven, and his airplane, the RV-3, I have developed
SourceRV.com because people have told me they wanted this. It is my full
intention to continue in the tradition of Van by producing quality products
at very reasonable prices.
You claim that I'm trying to "con-in...for a profit." I have to ask, do you
work for free? Probably not. Most people I know get paid to work at a job,
and have expenses to pay. I'm no different. Only my job now is to produce
the services I've mentioned above. Will I make a profit? I hope so...much in
the same way that your "profit" probably comes in the form of a paycheck.
Now, there will be no Gulfstreams flying around with "SourceRV.com" written
on the side. You can do the math. The revenue generated from SourceRV.com
won't even be sufficient to solely support a full-time position. It is only
through working on several additional projects that I can put bread on the
table, and maybe even take in an EAA pancake breakfast here and there.
Perhaps it would be wiser to completely drop out, forget about what people
want, give up on Van's site, and go back to the computer industry. But
that's not what I want and not what others have told me they wanted.
I think it would be great to make SourceRV.com free. I've analyzed different
potential revenue models. When it comes down to it, the web site has to
generate income. I think it has been positioned in the best way possible
given the requirements and circumstances.
You may have noticed one benefit of my decision already...Van's web site
went from a deteriorating condition to new, active, and updated almost
daily. Soon to come will be a new Accessories Catalog and on-line ordering
with cool things like order tracking. Without the development of InfoAv,
Van's web site likely would have been seriously downsized or closed
altogether.
This past fall, I've mentioned what I am doing to a number of people. So
far, everyone has been positive, expressing interest in the idea. Many
reactions have been very enthusiastic. People have understood that the
resources (aka money) to develop the site _have_ to come from somewhere.
If you still feel the same about SourceRV.com, then the best thing to do is
simply not subscribe. Trying to influence everyone's opinion is not
productive for anyone.
I want to make clear that I'm not trying to recoup what I've given in the
past. My focus is on the future and trying to produce and provide what
people want.
Sincerely,
Jeremy Benedict jeremy(at)infoav.com
InfoAv Corporation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JHeadric(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Prop pitch confusion |
Pat-
The first number on a prop is the diameter in inches. The second number is
how many inches forward the prop (and attached airplane) will move in one
revolution thru a semi-solid substance such as butter or some other
theoretical stuff.
All prop manufacturers SHOULD be using the same identifying numbers but I
guess some of them are just more accurate than others. I had a 150hp 'RV4
and used a 69x70" prop and it worked fine.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denton Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel Fairing |
>
>I meant to say, can anyone tell me where to get an RV tail wheel fairing?
>Thanks, Chuck
In case you didn't know, if you have a full swivel tail wheel the tail
wheel pant won't fit without modification or a smaller wheel.
I ran into this, drat!
Have a great Day!
Denny Harjehausen
Lebanon, OR
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gusndale(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New Site: SourceRV.com! |
Jeremy & listers,
Thanks for your thorough and informative response to the list regarding
the "con-in .... for a profit" issue. Hopefully this has put the issue to
rest.
Giving Jim the benefit of the doubt, he apparently didn't notice that
you created Van's website and if he isn't from the Portland local area may
not have been aware of the amount of volunteering you have contributed both
in labor and expertise to the Van's operation.
At any rate, for those of you on the list who don't know Jeremy, trust
me, Jim is waaay off base in characterizing this as "con-in...for a profit".
This is going to be a first rate service to the RV community. It isn't in
competition with the RV-list, it's another resource.
I signed up yesterday and I figure I'll recoup the $24 cost in a matter
of weeks via less 'practice parts' not to mention the convenience and time
saved in being able to quickly locate Rvator articles and plans revisions,
etc. right when I need them.
Rest assured, Jeremy, that Jim speaks only for himself. I, and I
expect many others are grateful that you are providing this new service and
realize that if the Gulfstream were the goal you wouldn't have chosen the RV
community as your target population.
Regards,
Dale Wotring
RV6A (working on engine hookups and panel planning)
Vancouver, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
where could i find wig-wags and info to wire?? bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | strobe positon question |
I think you still need a strobe on the top of the plane. Don't the wing tip
strobes mount in such a way that they can't be seen from above?
Has anyone put a strobe on the top of the fuselage about half way between
the canopy and the tail on a RV? I think that one on top of the fuselage
and one on the bottom would be easy to mount and service.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
RV-6A nose wheel fairing
-----Original Message-----
From: Bobpaulo(at)aol.com [mailto:Bobpaulo(at)aol.com]
Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 11:04 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: strobe positon question
if i install perturbing wing tip strobe/position lights, a
tail
strobe/postion light (in lower part of rudder), and a belly
strobe, must i
have additional strobe on top of fusel. or on vert stab???
thanx, bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.James" <vtx(at)ntplx.net> |
| Subject: | Lightening holes? or Not? |
Hi all,
I'm about to bore out lightening holes in the Flap Brace & Spar.
And a thought popped in mind while setting up the fly-cutter..
The plans say "Optional" for lightening holes here?
Is there any major drawback with leaving them solid OTHER THAN
the few measley ounces of weight reduction?
IE: Aerodynamic air-flow (through the holes) impedance?
IE: No inner access to rivets, etc (through holes)?
Thanks in advance, (fly-cutter on hold)
RJ in CT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
I meet Jeremy Benedict about 4 years ago. At that
time I was very impressed with his intelligence,
enthusiasm, and work ethic. He was working at Van's
tent at one of the major Fly-Ins. Since that time, I
have seen him at many fly-ins and talked to him at
almost all of them. With all the people that Jeremy
has meet at the different Fly-Ins, he remembered my
name this year at Van's Homecoming and I did NOT have
a name badge on. Since I live on the other side of the
country from Jeremy, I find this impressive. I am in
southern California 5 RV flight hours away from the
Pacific North Wet. This is not a typo. At the
Homecoming, I spoke a little with him about his work
with Intel. At that time, he wanted to start out on a
new endeavor. I encouraged him that I thought he had
what it takes to succeed and wished him luck.
I signed up for SourceRV the first day. I have a
flying RV-6 that I built and have enjoyed for 470
flying hours in the last 26 months. I do not need to
spend more money for info on building RV's. I want to
see Jeremy succeed and am willing to help him however
I can. I know that his SourceRV is going to be the
greatest success on the Internet since Amazon.com. I
know he has about a half dozen RV photos that I have
scanned for him. I am sure that he will have the
largest collection of RV photos on the web. I would
love to be remembered as paying the first dollar to
Jeremy on the millions he will make in his lifetime.
I believe that the info Jeremy will have on the
SourceRV will be more accurate than the rest of the
Internet. Anyone can say anything and he or she does.
An example was a post to the RV-List that I made
recently about Carb Ice. I was hoping to start a
"thread" and did. There were about one dozen posts.
I only asked for info that people had on flying RVs
with Lycoming engines. Only 5 responses were from RVs
and two came directly to me. The other ones about
Cessna and Piper were not what I wanted to know. In
any case, 2 out of 5 RVs have seen Carb Ice. 2 out of
5 have NEVER seen any Carb ice. One had seen Carb ice
once in about as many hours as my RV has. I am one
that has never seen any Carb Ice and am afraid that
someday I will. This brief survey is not factual
other than telling me that some day, I may have Carb
ice in my RV.
Over the past 4 years, I have seen Jeremy grow into
young adult and only hope that the leaders of our
country (and this planet) are just like him in the
Twenty-First Century. I wish Jeremy a Merry Christmas
and a successful New Year with his new undertaking.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
So. CA, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | strobe positon question |
--- "Stephen J. Soule" wrote:
>
> I think you still need a strobe on the top of the plane. Don't the
> wing tip
> strobes mount in such a way that they can't be seen from above?
>
> Has anyone put a strobe on the top of the fuselage about half way
> between
> the canopy and the tail on a RV?
Careful about strobe placement and unintended results - like blinding
the pilot.
A strobe behind the canopy could easily reflect off the
instruments/panel/windscreen at night and make your life miserable.
Even tip-mounted strobes sometimes due to dihedral of the wing and
placement on the tip require small fences to shield the flash from
view.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
--- Bobpaulo(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> where could i find wig-wags and info to wire?? bob
I have my Gall's unit handy. What info do you need?
Mike Thompson
====
Michael E. Thompson (Grobdriver(at)yahoo.com)
Austin, TX, USA
RV-6 in progress, N140RV (Reserved)
EX-AX1 Sub Hunter, P-3 (B/B-TACMOD/C) Orion Aircrew,
PP-G,ASEL, Motorglider Driver and Unlimited Air Race Nut!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DAVENDANA1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lightening holes? or Not? |
I don't remember where I read this, but one builder kept all the discarded
"circles" and weighed them. He saved 8 pounds by cutting the holes when he
was finished.
Dave Funk
They said it takes how long to build one of these?????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 12/4/99 3:27:35 AM Pacific Standard Time, Bobpaulo(at)aol.com
writes:
<< where could i find wigwags and info to wire?? >>
A wigwag is simply an alternating relay used to pulse the landing lights.
Depending on the wattage of your lamps this can be accomplished easily or
with additional considerations.
For the 55W Halogen bulbs Precise Flight has the Pulselite system that is a
self contained flasher system. Some have used School Bus flashers from
Gall's. For 100W incandescent bulbs you probably want to incorporate a relay
for each lamp to reduce the switching load seen by your panel switch(es).
The landing light relays I use are Mouser P/N R51-5D40-12F and are rated at
40A. I have an SSAC P/N KRD3120B adjustable rate alternating relay that is
connected thru a switch to the landing light relays. The rate is set so that
the filaments aren't allowed to go out between flashes. All the contact info
for these sources is in my Yeller Pages.
All of this shown in a complete schematic for my RV-6A done in AutoCAD Rel14.
I can send you the file if you wish.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinner(at)vcn.com> |
| Subject: | strobe positon question |
Steve,
I would think there would be good visibility of the wing tip strobes if
they are mounted on "blisters" on the wing tip. Van's now sell these in
the catalog. We used the 3 position strobes on Charlie's 6A which gives
you two tail lights to the rear. On my six, I used nav light only on the
wing tips and a single strobe in the vert. stab. tip. The strobe in the
vert. stab. tip will reflect off the wings at night. I would think a
strobe on the top of the fuselage would be even worse in this regard.
Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY (1995 RV6 sold after 4 years & 470 hrs) EAA
Tech Counselor # 3726
>
>I think you still need a strobe on the top of the plane. Don't the wing tip
>strobes mount in such a way that they can't be seen from above?
>
>Has anyone put a strobe on the top of the fuselage about half way between
>the canopy and the tail on a RV? I think that one on top of the fuselage
>and one on the bottom would be easy to mount and service.
>
>Steve Soule
>Huntington, Vermont
>RV-6A nose wheel fairing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6BLDR <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
Bobpaulo(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> where could i find wig-wags and info to wire?? bob
>
> _
Bob,
Here's a post I sent a few months ago on wig-wags. At this site they
have a wire diagram you can download.
******
Was looking at the latest Gall's catalog and noticed there is a new
Wig-Wag flasher available. Check it out at:(Give it a minute to
completely load. It will be slow at first, but once it gets going, it's
really cool!)
<http://www.galls.com/service/fs013.asp>
For those who have been wondering what the standard Wig-Wag pattern
looks like, go to: <http://www.galls.com/service/fs020.asp>
Since there was a thread on the Wig-Wags last week, thought you Wig-Wag
wannabes would be interested in this.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6BLDR <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightening holes? or Not? |
DAVENDANA1(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> I don't remember where I read this, but one builder kept all the discarded
> "circles" and weighed them. He saved 8 pounds by cutting the holes when he
> was finished.
>
> Dave Funk
> They said it takes how long to build one of these?????
>
He must of had the older kit that didn't have the lightning holes cut in
the wing ribs and spars, etc. I don't think the lightning holes that
are cut out by the builder in today's kits would weigh that much.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6 wings & fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BumFlyer(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 12/2/99 18:55:45, jkitz(at)greenapple.com writes:
<< I was wondering about rerouting the air that has passed through
> the oil cooler that is usually mounted to the rear engine baffle bulkhead.
> The air is warm and should be clean. It would be easy to attach a
> fiberglass manifold to the back of the oil cooler and duct the air to the
> needed locations. >>
This is something I researched a little, and was discouraged from the idea by
Larry Vetterman. I would also add there are some out there who use the oil
cooler outlet as a pre heater for the muff heated air.
Now that I have flown in the cool for a couple years I can see why this is
an exercise in futility. When you need the cabin heat is precisely when the
oil cooler is probably near stone cold, like your feet. I have had three
hour cross countries where the oil temp never stayed above 150.. This
probably means the vernatherm is still open and allowing only a dribble of
oil through the cooler.
Geo Orndorff recommended taking your pressure air for the muff from a low
spot on the aft baffle where you can get a little radiation from the aft
cylinder head. This will help a little, and the pot scrubbers may too.
Having said that I will add I think for most of us the chill problem is
overrated. If you only fly in the sunlight, you will find the RV-6/6A a very
comfy plane even in the extreme cold because of the solar heat and the
inherent warmth of the firewall area where your unsolarized feet are. i
really love flying in the winter on sunny days in Colorado, including the x
country mentioned above at 10,000 feet.
Spend your time and energy on sealing the drafts, particularly those on the
back of your neck, and in your nether regions where the stick boot is.
Now for those of you who need to fly at night, or IFR or to fly in the aft of
tandem airplanes with the flap actuator hole near you and a flop over canopy
skirt behind your neck, I have nothing to offer. These are recreational
activities which I have foregone in my advanced years.
Just my $0.01 worth.
D L Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith H. Wooddell" <KHWooddell(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LRI Group Buy |
Al,
My name is Keith Wooddell and I'm building an RV-8 in Cleveland, OH. I'm very
interested in purchasing a LRI. Is it possible to still purchase at the group
price of those that did so in November?
Thank you for your help.
Best Regards,
Keith W.
Al Mojzisik wrote:
>
> If you were one of the 5 people in the November LRI group buy, I just sent
> out a confirming e-mail directly to you.
>
> So if you ordered an LRI in this current deal and do not recieve this
> confirming e-mail by this evening please contact me off list. Thanks, AL
> prober(at)iwaynet.net
>
--
Keith H. Wooddell, Applications Engineer
The S. G. Morris Company
699 Miner Rd.
Highland Hts., OH 44143
(440) 243-0462
(440) 243-0462
KHWooddell(at)worldnet.att.net
adr: 699 Miner Road;;;Highland Heights;OH;44143;USA
title: Applications Engineer
tel;work: 440-243-0462
tel;fax: 440-243-0462
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JHeadric(at)aol.com |
Gary-
I have iced up with an RV4 a couple of times. Once, when making a long
descent without carb heat, it iced up and I lost some rpm, but kept flying
okay and with a little carb heat, it cleared up okay. Second time was
taxiing with typical Oregon wx and by the time I did my runup, I could tell
there was some ice, so I just waited until the carb heat cleared it up.
Flying was okay with no icing problems.
I have developed the habit of leaving carb heat on from downwind to shutdown
and then to startup for the next flight and taxi out. When I do my mag
check, I then cycle the carb heat off and on and then turn it off for the
takeoff. I never use heat in flight, but I sure would if I felt like I was
icing up.
Jim RV4, RV6A and RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
Listers,
I want to thank all of you that were so kind to send any extra RV4 parts or
RV4 compatible parts to me. You guys are really great and I appreciate it
tremendously. Maybe this project will actually happen. My folks have said
that they will foot the bill for the engine if I can maintain my grades in
college and if I get this thing built. Seems like alot of incentive there. If
there are any other listers out there that have any extra RV4 parts or
compatible RV4 parts that are cluttering up your shop and want to help,
please let me know. thanks!
Bryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)access1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightening holes? or Not? |
There are no "other" drawbacks, but then again, some of us don't consider
ANY extra weight "measly". :-) There are lots of places where you can end
up ignoring a seemingly insignificant amount of weight, but it's amazing how
fast it adds up. I was ruthless in my quest for light weight, and I ended
up with a metal-propped 6A that weighs in at 997 lbs without exterior paint.
They just fly better that way. Although I do plan on "splurging" for some
paint soon.
Ed Bundy - Eagle, ID - RV6-A First flight 11/20/96
ebundy@access1.net http://home.cwix.com/~ebundy@cwix.com/
> I'm about to bore out lightening holes in the Flap Brace & Spar.
> And a thought popped in mind while setting up the fly-cutter..
>
> The plans say "Optional" for lightening holes here?
> Is there any major drawback with leaving them solid OTHER THAN
> the few measley ounces of weight reduction?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Todd <motodd(at)pol.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: RV-List Digest: Vortex Generators: a RV4 pirep |
Michael McGee wrote:
> How did the VG's affect your landing speed and attitude?
I know what you mean about the difference in landing an RV vs a Cessna
170 (my first love). I have to fly a RV on if I want a three point
landing.
I can't say that I see any definite difference in landing behavior with
the VG's, other than getting to fly the pattern a few knots slower. It
seems that I've made a few of my nicer landings since putting on the
VG's (but, of course, I'd rather give myself the credit).
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Steel & alum tubing - was Flaring Tools |
Strain is the deformation of a part caused by stress. (Roughly)
I don't remember learning much about fatigue in school - maybe because I
was at Mel's Happy Tavern with a bunch of the boys instead of in class! As
soon as my Debonair's first annual I found that fatigue is very important
in airplanes! As soon as I started building my RV I began to worry about it.
I did know that if a part is deformed repeatedly beyond its elastic limit -
that is, where it doesn't spring back, it will soon crack and break. I
didn't realize that it will eventually break EVEN IF it is NEVER deformed
beyond the elastic limit. I found out that the number of cycles of stress
the part can endure before cracking varies with the material and with how
close each cycle gets to the elastic limit.
So, flexing of baffle parts will eventually start cracks. Many stop drills
and patches have I put on my Deb's baffles drive this message home. Your
RV will eventually break. If you make fuel lines of aluminum and let them
flex they will eventually break. If the flexing is less than half the
elastic limit, the number of flex cycles will be well over a million before
failure. For landing gear legs, for example, failure after a million
landings (and bounces) may be acceptable but for your crankshaft, not,
since it does thousands of flex cycles per minute. So, the crankshaft is
made very stiff so that the flexes are well below the limit but there is
still a limit and grinding the crank undersize makes that limit more
imminent. I understand that is why Lycoming does not condone grinding
below .020 undersize.
If you expect fuel lines to flex more than an extremely tiny amount, make
them hoses. The issue I have with aluminum lines is that they nick and
scratch so easily. This seems especially important where they are near
your feet or open to abrasion. Production automobile fuel lines are of
steel and I suspect abrasion resistance is the main reason. Lines are not
commonly made up in the shop but purchased as spare parts, fully formed and
terminated. The mechanic doesn't need to be trained to handle them with
kid gloves while installing as she would with aluminum.
Maybe I should have done my RV6A with hoses as the tubing shaping is at
least 100 time more difficult than with an RV6 due to gear mounts. Hoses
are now available without lifetime limitations but I suppose this was true
in 1903 too. Modern materials make steel braided hoses pretty attractive
tho surely costing and weighing more.
Aluminum lines seems to have worked for all the other RVs. Nearly
all? What are the details on the fire in flights that we have seen?
Hal Kempthorne - SJC
RV6a N7HK at SCK Hangar H-13
Debonair N6134V for sale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com> |
| Subject: | Opinion on drill press |
I'm looking for a decent bench-mounted drill press - Harbor Freight carries a number
of them made by Central Machinery. Anyone have any opinions, pro or con,
about Central Machinery products?
Thanks!
Semper Fi
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GLPalinkas(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New Site: SourceRV.com! |
Jeremy.... Don't let a few nay-sayers influence what the rest of us want. You
are right. We want more information and I was one of the first to put my
money where my mouth is as soon as the site accepted subscriptions. Count the
subscription totals and then don't worry about a few negative comments.
It was nice to hear you give us an over-view of your past efforts and future
vision. You are on the right track and we wish you well. (speaking IMHO for
the majority)
Gary Palinkas
Parma, Ohio
RV6 QB finishing up control systems (finally)
In a message dated 12/4/99 1:11:40 AM, list(at)infoav.com writes:
<< Dear Jim:
I am deeply troubled by your public accusation about my intentions and this
new venture. I'd like to present a little background on the subject to help
inform you and anyone who might share your feelings about SourceRV.com.
The web site in question was developed to provide an optional, value-added
service to those interested in RV aircraft. My background is quite extensive
in RVs and Van's Aircraft. I have been Van's Webmaster for the past 4.5
years, and have done a host of other things for Van's including spending
countless hours helping to prepare RVators and Accessories Catalogs,
sweating in yellow tents at various fly-ins, etc. Most of the work I have
done has not really been "work", but rather my time volunteered to the RV
and Van's cause...I don't work for Van's and I never have. I hesitate to
think of how much time I've "volunteered"; I often question whether the
1000+ hours of time would have been better spent on things like my career
and my life.
During the past decade, I've heard from many RV builders and pilots. I've
been subscribed to the rv-list since 1994. I've read the 1,500 comments
submitted about Van's web site. I've talked to hundreds if not thousands of
RV enthusiasts, builders, and pilots throughout the country and the world. I
know Van's operation and product fairly well. Through all this interaction,
one thing has become very clear. People want more information and resources.
Much more.
The options for providing what people really wanted were quite limited. It
was too much of a resource commitment for Van's, so after five months of
consideration last spring, Van's agreed to support in principal (not $$) the
ideas I had. I've formed a company, InfoAv, to develop and present these
ideas.
Stated again, I've developed a service to present information that people
told me they wanted. Isn't this somewhat consistent with the ideas of
capitalism and the free market economy in this country? I seem to recall the
story of a young man in the 1970s who designed and built his own airplane.
Soon after others flew his airplane, they desired, they asked, they wanted
to have this airplane. In response to their pressure, not because he was
trying to make a buck, this young man made his airplane available. Like this
young man, Richard VanGrunsven, and his airplane, the RV-3, I have developed
SourceRV.com because people have told me they wanted this. It is my full
intention to continue in the tradition of Van by producing quality products
at very reasonable prices.
You claim that I'm trying to "con-in...for a profit." I have to ask, do you
work for free? Probably not. Most people I know get paid to work at a job,
and have expenses to pay. I'm no different. Only my job now is to produce
the services I've mentioned above. Will I make a profit? I hope so...much in
the same way that your "profit" probably comes in the form of a paycheck.
Now, there will be no Gulfstreams flying around with "SourceRV.com" written
on the side. You can do the math. The revenue generated from SourceRV.com
won't even be sufficient to solely support a full-time position. It is only
through working on several additional projects that I can put bread on the
table, and maybe even take in an EAA pancake breakfast here and there.
Perhaps it would be wiser to completely drop out, forget about what people
want, give up on Van's site, and go back to the computer industry. But
that's not what I want and not what others have told me they wanted.
I think it would be great to make SourceRV.com free. I've analyzed different
potential revenue models. When it comes down to it, the web site has to
generate income. I think it has been positioned in the best way possible
given the requirements and circumstances.
You may have noticed one benefit of my decision already...Van's web site
went from a deteriorating condition to new, active, and updated almost
daily. Soon to come will be a new Accessories Catalog and on-line ordering
with cool things like order tracking. Without the development of InfoAv,
Van's web site likely would have been seriously downsized or closed
altogether.
This past fall, I've mentioned what I am doing to a number of people. So
far, everyone has been positive, expressing interest in the idea. Many
reactions have been very enthusiastic. People have understood that the
resources (aka money) to develop the site _have_ to come from somewhere.
If you still feel the same about SourceRV.com, then the best thing to do is
simply not subscribe. Trying to influence everyone's opinion is not
productive for anyone.
I want to make clear that I'm not trying to recoup what I've given in the
past. My focus is on the future and trying to produce and provide what
people want.
Sincerely,
Jeremy Benedict jeremy(at)infoav.com
InfoAv Corporation >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aquila33(at)webtv.net (dann mann) |
| Subject: | Re: Opinion on drill press |
In my opinion, Some of the Central machinery stuff is usable. If you can
spring fo just a few more bucks look at the line of tools now sold by
Home Depot under the Ridgid name. The quality is just fantastic. They
are still Asian tools but built to a much higher standard.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LRI Group Buy |
Keith,
I believe I can still get you in. I am mailing the check to Jim on Monday
but since you live so close to me I can cover you. Please E-mail me off
list with your address and phone number and we'll exchange the details.
AL PS: I am from the Cleveland area too and still visit up there.
>
>
>Al,
>
>My name is Keith Wooddell and I'm building an RV-8 in Cleveland, OH. I'm very
>interested in purchasing a LRI. Is it possible to still purchase at the
group
>price of those that did so in November?
>
>Thank you for your help.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Keith W.
>
>Al Mojzisik wrote:
>
>>
>> If you were one of the 5 people in the November LRI group buy, I just sent
>> out a confirming e-mail directly to you.
>>
>> So if you ordered an LRI in this current deal and do not recieve this
>> confirming e-mail by this evening please contact me off list. Thanks, AL
>> prober(at)iwaynet.net
>>
>
>
>--
>Keith H. Wooddell, Applications Engineer
>
>The S. G. Morris Company
>699 Miner Rd.
>Highland Hts., OH 44143
>
>(440) 243-0462
>(440) 243-0462
>KHWooddell(at)worldnet.att.net
>
>
>adr: 699 Miner Road;;;Highland Heights;OH;44143;USA
>title: Applications Engineer
>tel;work: 440-243-0462
>tel;fax: 440-243-0462
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan E. Files" <BFiles(at)corecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gel Cell Battery |
Bob,
Doesnt the RG batteries ie Panther, have a 3psi pop vent in them that is why
we can not put them inside the passenger compartment of an aircraft without
a vented battery box. On the other hand the Powersonic does not have this
feature since it is suppose to be a gel cell and we can put them in the
cabin on a tray and not a vented box.
**** Bryan E. Files ****
Ever Fly Maintenance
Palmer, Alaska
A&P, IA, FAA Safety Counselor
mailto:BFiles(at)corecom.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 5:11 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Gel Cell Battery
>
> >
> >I believe that the Powersonic is a gel cell battery. I am looking
through
> >my stuff.
>
> To a large number of people who sell batteries,
> ANY battery that is sealed and doesn't slosh is
> a "gel" battery. I've found a number of websites
> that specifically call the RG batteries a "gel". . .
> Fortunately, they're actually recombinant gas
> (or starved electrolyte) construction that exhibits
> cold weather cranking performance 2-4 times better
> than a flooded battery and 3-6 times better than
> a gel-cel.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Zeidman, Richard B" <Richard.Zeidman(at)PHL.Boeing.com> |
| Subject: | Skyforce Skymap II |
Have any listers tried the Skymap II in their RV's. I really like the panel
mount feature with the large map, but would like to hear some comments from
anyone who has actual experience with it. I am also planning to couple it to
a Nav-Aid autopilot.
Rich Zeidman
Ridley Park, Pa
RV6A finish kit
working on canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | bottom flap skin |
Got the wings mounted on the RV4. Getting ready to set the incidence
angle, etc. Went to mount the flap and have interference between the
lower fuselage skin and the bottom flap skin on the fuse side. Looks
like I will have to cut the bottom fuselage skin flush with the fuselage
side to get enough clearance and maybe the flap skin also. Will get the
plans out and study some more.
Any short cuts or advice will be welcome.
Thanks Earl RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Source.com |
I'm not quite as quick to dismiss Jim's comment as out of line as some of
you seem to be. While I don't agree with him, I did have some concerns
along those lines. If I didn't know who Jeremy is, and that he is
responsible for Van's website, including the recent excellent update, I
might have the same suspicions.
First, I feel a great loyalty to Matt and those of you whose posts to this
list have provided so much insight to the building process, and the rewards
and pitfalls of my project. Second, I have mixed feelings about paying
another fee to get information that I thought I had already paid for - the
drawings, Van's customer support, my Rvator subscription, and my
contributions to Matt for providing this list. I also feel just a little
bit like I did a couple of month's ago when Moe started an RV-8 list to
replace the previous RV-8 shortlist, and then after that when Matt started
all the more specific lists, including the RV-8 list. I hate to see the
source of information and discussions that are vital to me to get so
diffused that I miss something important.
But when I went to Jeremy's site to look at what he is doing, the sample
downloadable drawings were all for the RV-8, and they were revisions to the
drawings that I don't believe I have seen before. Maybe I missed them in
the Rvator; maybe they were never disseminated to kit owners. Regardless,
it is information that I don't think I can afford to be without. I
subscribed.
The way I see it, Jeremy is in a unique position where he has the
background, experience, and access to Vans so he can provide us with a real
service. I guess I would prefer that Vans had put him on the payroll to
provide what he is doing as a part of their customer service, but then the
price of the kits would probably have had to increase more than what I will
be paying Jeremy.
Besides, Jeremy is an entrepreneur. He will make it or not, depending on
whether he gives us our money's worth. From what I have seen of his work to
date, I think he will do just fine.
Terry Watson
RV-8A wings
Seattle
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary A. Sobek <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 6:03 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV Source.com
>
> I meet Jeremy Benedict about 4 years ago. At that
> time I was very impressed with his intelligence,
> enthusiasm, and work ethic. He was working at Van's
> tent at one of the major Fly-Ins. Since that time, I
> have seen him at many fly-ins and talked to him at
> almost all of them. With all the people that Jeremy
> has meet at the different Fly-Ins, he remembered my
> name this year at Van's Homecoming and I did NOT have
> a name badge on. Since I live on the other side of the
> country from Jeremy, I find this impressive. I am in
> southern California 5 RV flight hours away from the
> Pacific North Wet. This is not a typo. At the
> Homecoming, I spoke a little with him about his work
> with Intel. At that time, he wanted to start out on a
> new endeavor. I encouraged him that I thought he had
> what it takes to succeed and wished him luck.
>
> I signed up for SourceRV the first day. I have a
> flying RV-6 that I built and have enjoyed for 470
> flying hours in the last 26 months. I do not need to
> spend more money for info on building RV's. I want to
> see Jeremy succeed and am willing to help him however
> I can. I know that his SourceRV is going to be the
> greatest success on the Internet since Amazon.com. I
> know he has about a half dozen RV photos that I have
> scanned for him. I am sure that he will have the
> largest collection of RV photos on the web. I would
> love to be remembered as paying the first dollar to
> Jeremy on the millions he will make in his lifetime.
>
> I believe that the info Jeremy will have on the
> SourceRV will be more accurate than the rest of the
> Internet. Anyone can say anything and he or she does.
> An example was a post to the RV-List that I made
> recently about Carb Ice. I was hoping to start a
> "thread" and did. There were about one dozen posts.
> I only asked for info that people had on flying RVs
> with Lycoming engines. Only 5 responses were from RVs
> and two came directly to me. The other ones about
> Cessna and Piper were not what I wanted to know. In
> any case, 2 out of 5 RVs have seen Carb Ice. 2 out of
> 5 have NEVER seen any Carb ice. One had seen Carb ice
> once in about as many hours as my RV has. I am one
> that has never seen any Carb Ice and am afraid that
> someday I will. This brief survey is not factual
> other than telling me that some day, I may have Carb
> ice in my RV.
> Over the past 4 years, I have seen Jeremy grow into
> young adult and only hope that the leaders of our
> country (and this planet) are just like him in the
> Twenty-First Century. I wish Jeremy a Merry Christmas
> and a successful New Year with his new undertaking.
>
>
> ====
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> So. CA, USA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jim jewell" <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
| Subject: | Lightening holes? or Not? |
Hello R James:
Having read some comments regarding cracks etc. in the area of the flap
brace and spar areas, I chose to put fewer holes in the flap spar and none
in the flap brace.
The few ounces this choice represented (near C/G ) are not an issue with me.
I have however tried to avoid adding any weight to this project.
On assembly I did not find any need for access to rivets as a problem
I don't foresee any aerodynamic difficulties comming into play, I'm no
expert on aerodynamics so I'll stand to be corrected on this.
Jim in Kelowna BC. 6-A, fitting stuff inside fuse and preparing to do the
big bucks things.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of R.James
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 5:43 AM
Subject: RV-List: Lightening holes? or Not?
Hi all,
I'm about to bore out lightening holes in the Flap Brace & Spar.
And a thought popped in mind while setting up the fly-cutter..
The plans say "Optional" for lightening holes here?
Is there any major drawback with leaving them solid OTHER THAN
the few measley ounces of weight reduction?
IE: Aerodynamic air-flow (through the holes) impedance?
IE: No inner access to rivets, etc (through holes)?
Thanks in advance, (fly-cutter on hold)
RJ in CT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
I too feel uncomfortable about paying again for what I feel has already been
paid for....what is the RVAtor for if not to provide on-going information
and corrections to the many drawing errors? Also has anyone paid any
attention to the fact that we have only 27 days left in 1999 and there are
still 2 more RVAtors due for this year?
Maybe Van should consider putting the RVAtor on the web and charging for
that ONLY!
RV-6A Flying
Salida,
CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gel Cell Battery |
>
>Bob,
>Doesnt the RG batteries ie Panther, have a 3psi pop vent in them that is why
>we can not put them inside the passenger compartment of an aircraft without
>a vented battery box. On the other hand the Powersonic does not have this
>feature since it is suppose to be a gel cell and we can put them in the
>cabin on a tray and not a vented box.
No, yet another name for RG and starved electrolyte batteries
is VRSLA for vent regulated, sealed lead acid. All of the
sealed batteries have some form of over-pressure relief valve
whether recombinant gas or the older, now nearly obsolete
"gel" cells. The Panther folk may choose 3 psi for their products,
last time I discussed it with Skip Koss on Concord's products,
I think he said they vent at about 1.5 psi. Hawker/Gates
batteries are on that same order.
I asked Skip why the batteries don't outgass at altitude
and he said it was because they operated at negative pressure
inside the case. Concord has been supplying RG batteries to
the military for years that are operated in un-pressurized
compartments of aircraft with no degredation due to passage
of gasses through the vent valve.
Any of the RG batteries can be simply strapped down to a
tray and operated out in the open. In fact, this is the
safest way to use them. Out of perhaps a dozen battery
induced explosions I been aware of over the years, only
one was internal to a battery. The rest were actually
battery BOX explosions where severely abused batteries
outgassed into the battery box and the box provided the
containment. An RG battery cannot vent liquid. Only gas
and then only when severely abused. It's better to let it
barf its innards into a large open volume as opposed to
containing it in any enclosure.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris & Kellie Hand" <ckhand(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Opinion on drill press |
John and others,
I posted a similar question last year and got a pretty even split in
opinions on Central Machinery (should be able to find that thread in the
archives).
I bought the 16 speed floor stand Central Machinery model and have been
happy with it. No problems, can run it slow enough for the fly cutter
(slowest speed is around 195 rpm I believe) and holes are plenty straight
and round enough for RV building. Price was good too, around $170 on sale.
Just have to use a level to check the clamping surface as the scale showing
the angle on mine is not quite accurate.
That being said, it sits idle much of the time as I've found that other than
using the fly cutter, the hand drills are fine. Don't know what other tools
you have already but looking back, I would by a band saw and/or bench top
belt/disc sander first (still haven't got either of those, but would use
them more often than the drill press if I had them).
Chris Hand
Seaside, CA
RV-6A, wings...
----- Original Message -----
From: John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 10:57 AM
Subject: RV-List: Opinion on drill press
>
> I'm looking for a decent bench-mounted drill press - Harbor Freight
carries a number of them made by Central Machinery. Anyone have any
opinions, pro or con, about Central Machinery products?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Semper Fi
> John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314(at)azstarnet.com (tom sargent) |
I have an Air Flow Performance fuel injection system on my O-360
(just delivered a few days ago). I learned recently that some injected
engines have an "alternate air" source for the intake in the event that the
filtered air inlet gets clogged with ice. Apparently the alternate air is
just taken from under the cowling.
You'd have to be flying in some pretty mean weather to get ice in
the intake like that. I would think the whole plane would be icing up too.
That's the kind of weather I stay hundreds of miles away from. How
essential is an alternate air source? Is it as essential as carb heat on a
carburated engine?
---
Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
| Subject: | Re: Problem!! with Cap Engraving Please read if you have |
sent Caps.
Steve,
Looks to me that version "B" on your websiste is best since it would be
readable while standing in front of the wing. I'm assuming that
everyone would want the tab to the rear since this is the streamlined
position (i.e. if its up then the air would try to push it down).
I wasn't aware that you did the "RV-__"
on the tab. I think that this is neat but I don't think I told you that
I have an "8".
I vote for "B".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate air |
Also helps when you suck a bird!!!
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
-----Original Message-----
From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)azstarnet.com>
Date: Saturday, December 04, 1999 5:11 PM
Subject: RV-List: alternate air
>
> I have an Air Flow Performance fuel injection system on my O-360
>(just delivered a few days ago). I learned recently that some injected
>engines have an "alternate air" source for the intake in the event that the
>filtered air inlet gets clogged with ice. Apparently the alternate air is
>just taken from under the cowling.
>
> You'd have to be flying in some pretty mean weather to get ice in
>the intake like that. I would think the whole plane would be icing up too.
>That's the kind of weather I stay hundreds of miles away from. How
>essential is an alternate air source? Is it as essential as carb heat on a
>carburated engine?
>
>---
>Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: bottom flap skin |
Earl
If I remember this part of RV4 building correctly, the part of the belly
skin that sticks out the side is only as long as the main part of the wing.
In the area ajacent to the flap the belly skin is flush with the fus. side.
Alot of 4's have some interferance with the flap bottom skin and fus. The
problem is usually that the bottom skin is not flush with the bottom of the
fus. The simple fix for this (what I did) is bend the portion of the flap
bottom skin that is suppost to go under the fus. to a Z arrangement that
allowes the flap to rise up above the bottom of the fus. but the skin goes
under the bottom. You could also just cut the piece of flap skin off, but
that would leave the hole for the flap actuating rod open.
There should be lots in the archives about this. I hope I have made myself
somewhat clear.
Joe Hine
RV4 C-FYTQ
>
>Got the wings mounted on the RV4. Getting ready to set the incidence
>angle, etc. Went to mount the flap and have interference between the
>lower fuselage skin and the bottom flap skin on the fuse side. Looks
>like I will have to cut the bottom fuselage skin flush with the fuselage
>side to get enough clearance and maybe the flap skin also. Will get the
>plans out and study some more.
>
>Any short cuts or advice will be welcome.
>
>Thanks Earl RV4
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gar & Jan Pessel" <pessel(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | rear spar fit on qb6 |
I finally reached the point where it was time to mate the wings to the
fuselage. We tried sliding the left wing into place and find that the tab
off the rear spar will not fit into the slot between the tabs on the
fuselage. It is too far back by over 1/8th of an inch. I do not have the
faintest idea how to bend those two tabs or if I should be bending on the
tab on the wing. Bending anything labeled as part of a spar , even just a
rear spar, is not something that sounds like a particularly good idea.
Anybody else ever encountered this problem? Gar Pessel, Fairbanks, AK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate air |
I have injection on mine, and I built the alternate air door, which will
simply take air from under the engine. It is pre-filter, which will give
me an alternate should some piece of stuff get plugged into the scoop.
Pretty unlikely, but then I want to make engine failure pretty unlikely
also. I don't think post filter is necessary, as anything small enough to
fit through the scoop is also not large enough to cover the whole filter,
should it get that far. If one is worried about snow, pull the alternate
air before losing intake pressure.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN 6A
----------
> From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)azstarnet.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: alternate air
> Date: Saturday, December 04, 1999 5:07 PM
>
>
> I have an Air Flow Performance fuel injection system on my O-360
> (just delivered a few days ago). I learned recently that some injected
> engines have an "alternate air" source for the intake in the event that
the
> filtered air inlet gets clogged with ice. Apparently the alternate air is
> just taken from under the cowling.
>
> You'd have to be flying in some pretty mean weather to get ice in
> the intake like that. I would think the whole plane would be icing up
too.
> That's the kind of weather I stay hundreds of miles away from. How
> essential is an alternate air source? Is it as essential as carb heat on
a
> carburated engine?
>
> ---
> Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate air |
Why can y'all only think of ice, Just read a story of a filter clogged
with fresh cut grass...........happy ending thanks to alternate....
Gert
Cy Galley wrote:
>
>
> Also helps when you suck a bird!!!
>
> Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
> (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)azstarnet.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, December 04, 1999 5:11 PM
> Subject: RV-List: alternate air
>
> >
> > I have an Air Flow Performance fuel injection system on my O-360
> >(just delivered a few days ago). I learned recently that some injected
> >engines have an "alternate air" source for the intake in the event that the
> >filtered air inlet gets clogged with ice. Apparently the alternate air is
> >just taken from under the cowling.
> >
> > You'd have to be flying in some pretty mean weather to get ice in
> >the intake like that. I would think the whole plane would be icing up too.
> >That's the kind of weather I stay hundreds of miles away from. How
> >essential is an alternate air source? Is it as essential as carb heat on a
> >carburated engine?
> >
> >---
> >Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
> >
> >
>
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jim jewell" <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
Hello Jerry Calvert:
Apperently Galls.com/etc. is no longer a valid web site.
My attempts to find Galls on the web failed, is it the same for others out
there?
jim Kelowna BC.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of RV6BLDR
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: wig-wags
Bobpaulo(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> where could i find wig-wags and info to wire?? bob
>
> _
Bob,
Here's a post I sent a few months ago on wig-wags. At this site they
have a wire diagram you can download.
******
Was looking at the latest Gall's catalog and noticed there is a new
Wig-Wag flasher available. Check it out at:(Give it a minute to
completely load. It will be slow at first, but once it gets going, it's
really cool!)
<http://www.galls.com/service/fs013.asp>
For those who have been wondering what the standard Wig-Wag pattern
looks like, go to: <http://www.galls.com/service/fs020.asp>
Since there was a thread on the Wig-Wags last week, thought you Wig-Wag
wannabes would be interested in this.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Site: SourceRV.com! |
I was about to comment in detail but this is so well put Jeremy.
One other observation from my view, the RV-List is a "service" that provides
a mechanism for **US** to share with each other. And I am a contributor.
SourceRV =appears= to be a "service" that focusses more on "content" that
has to be otherwise obtained at **SOMEBODY's** expense.
And $24 is a **SMALL** amount for the promised/anticipated content ... much
less that what I (and I suspect many others) have contributed to the
RV-List.
Go for it!!! And best wishes for the sake of us RV builders who do want as
much info as possible **AND** you for taking the risk to get it provided.
James
Being beaten by sliding canopy but a happy RV-List and SourceRV supporter
(so far ;-) )
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy Benedict <list(at)infoav.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 12:57 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: New Site: SourceRV.com!
>
> --> RV-List message REALLY posted by: , not the above!
>
> I encourage anyone interested in RV aircraft to read this...
>
> > Sounds to me like this crew is trying to con-in on a look-alike RV List
> for a > profit...Jim Brown, NJ, RV- 3
>
> Dear Jim:
>
> I am deeply troubled by your public accusation about my intentions and
this
> new venture. I'd like to present a little background on the subject to
help
> inform you and anyone who might share your feelings about SourceRV.com.
>
> The web site in question was developed to provide an optional, value-added
> service to those interested in RV aircraft. My background is quite
extensive
> in RVs and Van's Aircraft. I have been Van's Webmaster for the past 4.5
> years, and have done a host of other things for Van's including spending
> countless hours helping to prepare RVators and Accessories Catalogs,
> sweating in yellow tents at various fly-ins, etc. Most of the work I have
> done has not really been "work", but rather my time volunteered to the RV
> and Van's cause...I don't work for Van's and I never have. I hesitate to
> think of how much time I've "volunteered"; I often question whether the
> 1000+ hours of time would have been better spent on things like my career
> and my life.
>
> During the past decade, I've heard from many RV builders and pilots. I've
> been subscribed to the rv-list since 1994. I've read the 1,500 comments
> submitted about Van's web site. I've talked to hundreds if not thousands
of
> RV enthusiasts, builders, and pilots throughout the country and the world.
I
> know Van's operation and product fairly well. Through all this
interaction,
> one thing has become very clear. People want more information and
resources.
> Much more.
>
> The options for providing what people really wanted were quite limited. It
> was too much of a resource commitment for Van's, so after five months of
> consideration last spring, Van's agreed to support in principal (not $$)
the
> ideas I had. I've formed a company, InfoAv, to develop and present these
> ideas.
>
> Stated again, I've developed a service to present information that people
> told me they wanted. Isn't this somewhat consistent with the ideas of
> capitalism and the free market economy in this country? I seem to recall
the
> story of a young man in the 1970s who designed and built his own airplane.
> Soon after others flew his airplane, they desired, they asked, they wanted
> to have this airplane. In response to their pressure, not because he was
> trying to make a buck, this young man made his airplane available. Like
this
> young man, Richard VanGrunsven, and his airplane, the RV-3, I have
developed
> SourceRV.com because people have told me they wanted this. It is my full
> intention to continue in the tradition of Van by producing quality
products
> at very reasonable prices.
>
> You claim that I'm trying to "con-in...for a profit." I have to ask, do
you
> work for free? Probably not. Most people I know get paid to work at a job,
> and have expenses to pay. I'm no different. Only my job now is to produce
> the services I've mentioned above. Will I make a profit? I hope so...much
in
> the same way that your "profit" probably comes in the form of a paycheck.
>
> Now, there will be no Gulfstreams flying around with "SourceRV.com"
written
> on the side. You can do the math. The revenue generated from SourceRV.com
> won't even be sufficient to solely support a full-time position. It is
only
> through working on several additional projects that I can put bread on the
> table, and maybe even take in an EAA pancake breakfast here and there.
> Perhaps it would be wiser to completely drop out, forget about what people
> want, give up on Van's site, and go back to the computer industry. But
> that's not what I want and not what others have told me they wanted.
>
> I think it would be great to make SourceRV.com free. I've analyzed
different
> potential revenue models. When it comes down to it, the web site has to
> generate income. I think it has been positioned in the best way possible
> given the requirements and circumstances.
>
> You may have noticed one benefit of my decision already...Van's web site
> went from a deteriorating condition to new, active, and updated almost
> daily. Soon to come will be a new Accessories Catalog and on-line ordering
> with cool things like order tracking. Without the development of InfoAv,
> Van's web site likely would have been seriously downsized or closed
> altogether.
>
> This past fall, I've mentioned what I am doing to a number of people. So
> far, everyone has been positive, expressing interest in the idea. Many
> reactions have been very enthusiastic. People have understood that the
> resources (aka money) to develop the site _have_ to come from somewhere.
>
> If you still feel the same about SourceRV.com, then the best thing to do
is
> simply not subscribe. Trying to influence everyone's opinion is not
> productive for anyone.
>
> I want to make clear that I'm not trying to recoup what I've given in the
> past. My focus is on the future and trying to produce and provide what
> people want.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jeremy Benedict jeremy(at)infoav.com
> InfoAv Corporation
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 N94BD weigh-in |
Listers,
I finally found a scale and completed the weight and balance on my RV8
today. With the able assistance of several patient souls with strong backs,
the results are as follows:
RV8 N94BD
Ser.#: 80379
Engine: Lyc O-360A4J
Prop: Sensenich 72FM8S9-83 (metal)
Battery: On firewall
Oil Cooler: on firewall, Positech..soon to be replaced w/Niagara.
Spinner: Van's fiberglass
Panel: Deluxe VFR w/ gyros and all analog engine gauges
Lighting: panel lights, landing light, Whelan 3 in 1 strobes on wingtips
(single power pack aft of rear baggage hold).
Seats: custom made, high density foam, w/auto interior fabric
Belts: Pacific Aero Harness five point front and rear.
Total weight, no fuel, 7 quarts oil: 1037 pounds
Empty aircraft CG: 76.82" aft of 70" datum forward of wing leading edge.
We used a single, balance beam scale calibrated by me standing on it! The
scale was moved to each wheel at a time, and this worked out quite well. It
does take some strong backs to lift the mains, but with four guys, it was
quick work. I'm pleased with the outcome, and hope to stay under 1100
pounds with the gear fairings, wheel pants and paint.
Another weigh-in will be required after all this is done, of course.
With just me in the front seat with full fuel, the CG is well forward, but
within limits. I plan to make a survival kit and will locate it on the aft
baggage shelf where it will remain at all times. This should help a little.
We ran the engine afterwards to check a few squawks from the last test run,
and this machine feels like it wants to leap off the ground right now!
Alas, only one more hurdle until it does fly...and "Das Fed" will come for a
visit next week to give my airplane a checkup. (Ok now, this won't hurt a
bit....now turn your rudder and cough).
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
fairings, gadgets, sanding, testing, etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Need to sell one of my engines... |
Hi Folks,
I need to sell one of my engines, or completely redesign a twin.
(hummmm a RV12 maybe...)
I have:
For Sale
Lycoming 0320-A1A
History:
S/N 3475-27
Was in a Piper Apache N1386P
Complete logs
In service 3-1-56
Majored 6-22-61 1452 hrs TT after apparent gear up landing.
Top overhaul 5-16-75 at 2996 TT
This overhaul at 3566 hrs TT
Conical mount
Cases done at Divco
Yellow tagged rods, crank, and cylinders from Rick Romans
New cam and carb.
New Slick mags and harnesses
New Prop Governor
Fuel Pump
Oil cooler
Ring gear
Most all hardware re-plated
All applicable AD's complied with (inc oil pump)
Engine is just back from inspection. Not assembled.
Overhaul labor is paid for at Aeroparts of Arizona but not started yet.
If I kept the engine I didn't want it assembled until I was ready
for it. Have not specified HP yet so you could have 150 hp or 160 hp.
Pistons are already paid for. Overhaul will be by Bill Castles. A very
respected rebuilder at Phoenix, DVT.
To be complete you will need a starter, alternator and optional vacuum
pump.
Price:
Assembled and ready to go - $12,500
Not assembled - $11,600
Warranty - If installed in an airplane at DVT, overhauler will fix anything
that is not right. He guaranties that it will be right. No real time frame.
I've
seen several planes with his engines in them with no problems. I'm going
to use him on my other engine.
Prices are FOB Phoenix, AZ
OR engine #2:
Lycoming 0320-A2A
History:
S/N L-38687-27A
Was in a Piper TriPacer
Conical mount
450hrs SFOH*
No Logs
No Mags
Ring gear
Carb
Alternator
Starter
Oil cooler
* With no logs it's hard to confirm so I took the engine to Lycon and
had them disassemble and evaluate. They confirmed very low time
(with no prompting they estimated 400hrs) never been turned crank.
It is a wide deck. Cylinders showed some sign of wear but not bad.
They said I should have just run it the way it was. It is machined for
a fuel pump. Engine is just back from inspection. Not assembled.
Price: $5500
Price is FOB Phoenix, AZ
If I kept it I would buy 160 hp pistons, bearings, gasket set, fuel pump
and mags. I have a rebuilder that will put it back together for $900 + any
incidentals. It would be a cheep running low time engine.
Let me know...
Larry Olson
Cave Creek, AZ
RV6-Finish kit on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denton Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rear spar fit on qb6 |
>
>I finally reached the point where it was time to mate the wings to the
>fuselage. We tried sliding the left wing into place and find that the tab
>off the rear spar will not fit into the slot between the tabs on the
>fuselage. It is too far back by over 1/8th of an inch. I do not have the
>faintest idea how to bend those two tabs or if I should be bending on the
>tab on the wing. Bending anything labeled as part of a spar , even just a
>rear spar, is not something that sounds like a particularly good idea.
>Anybody else ever encountered this problem? Gar Pessel, Fairbanks, AK
I would call Van's on that. My belief is that it should jsut slip in...no
bending.
Good luck,
denny, RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com> |
Seems like I remember something on the list about electric tach not
recording time on the hour meter unless they are running at a certain rpm.
Searched the archives but couldn't get a good hit. Anybody know the answer?
Bill Pagan
N565BW
"The original RV-8A builders page on the web"
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
Apperently Galls.com/etc. is no longer a valid web site.
Try http://www.galls.com
Gary Zilik
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Tach |
pagan wrote:
>
> Seems like I remember something on the list about electric tach not
> recording time on the hour meter unless they are running at a certain rpm.
> Searched the archives but couldn't get a good hit. Anybody know the answer?
>
> Bill Pagan
> N565BW
> "The original RV-8A builders page on the web"
> http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
Bill,
I think the Electronics Intl. Tach operates how you mentioned, but they give you
an option of hooking it up to an oil pressure switch as well.
-Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 N94BD weigh-in |
I hope that when you weighed your plane there was a block under the other
two wheels the same height as the scale so that the plane was always in the
same plane. Other wise, you may find that you do not have the right numbers.
Of course you did weight it inside out of the wind so those wonderful
airfoils didn't change the true weight either.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Denk <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Saturday, December 04, 1999 8:56 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV8 N94BD weigh-in
>
>Listers,
>
>I finally found a scale and completed the weight and balance on my RV8
>today. With the able assistance of several patient souls with strong backs,
>the results are as follows:
>
>RV8 N94BD
>Ser.#: 80379
>Engine: Lyc O-360A4J
>Prop: Sensenich 72FM8S9-83 (metal)
>Battery: On firewall
>Oil Cooler: on firewall, Positech..soon to be replaced w/Niagara.
>Spinner: Van's fiberglass
>Panel: Deluxe VFR w/ gyros and all analog engine gauges
>Lighting: panel lights, landing light, Whelan 3 in 1 strobes on wingtips
>(single power pack aft of rear baggage hold).
>Seats: custom made, high density foam, w/auto interior fabric
>Belts: Pacific Aero Harness five point front and rear.
>
>
>Total weight, no fuel, 7 quarts oil: 1037 pounds
>Empty aircraft CG: 76.82" aft of 70" datum forward of wing leading edge.
>
>We used a single, balance beam scale calibrated by me standing on it! The
>scale was moved to each wheel at a time, and this worked out quite well. It
>does take some strong backs to lift the mains, but with four guys, it was
>quick work. I'm pleased with the outcome, and hope to stay under 1100
>pounds with the gear fairings, wheel pants and paint.
>Another weigh-in will be required after all this is done, of course.
>
>With just me in the front seat with full fuel, the CG is well forward, but
>within limits. I plan to make a survival kit and will locate it on the aft
>baggage shelf where it will remain at all times. This should help a
little.
>
>We ran the engine afterwards to check a few squawks from the last test run,
>and this machine feels like it wants to leap off the ground right now!
>Alas, only one more hurdle until it does fly...and "Das Fed" will come for
a
>visit next week to give my airplane a checkup. (Ok now, this won't hurt a
>bit....now turn your rudder and cough).
>
>Brian Denk
>RV8 N94BD
>fairings, gadgets, sanding, testing, etc.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PANELCUT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Drawing of Fuel cap |
Group
Sorry about the confusion on the picture on my web site, some had
mentioned the RV8 on the tab. That's just for me to be sure I keep the
different gallons straight it doesn't get engraved. I did all the drawings in
one file and that was for me only. I want to thank everyone for their
understanding on the confusion and the hold up, but I thought this was an
important issue and wanted everbody to be happy with their caps. I plan on
starting them monday and hope to start sending them back.
Steve Davis
The Panel Pilot
http://members.aol.com/panelcut
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Tach |
>
>Seems like I remember something on the list about electric tach not
>recording time on the hour meter unless they are running at a certain rpm.
>Searched the archives but couldn't get a good hit. Anybody know the
answer?
>
>
This probably works differently on different electric tachs. On the Vision
it is true and the RPM is 1500. Makes sense.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PANELCUT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fuel Cap Drawing Everyone who has caps for engraving READ |
Group
I have posted the drawings of the fuel caps on my page it is http://members
.aol.com/panelcut. Please go look at this and vote this is the last chance
for you to let me know. I plan on starting them Monday and If I don't hear
form you they will be engraved like Pauls. I have heard form a few you do not
have to answer again, but there are still alot I have not. The RV8 on the tab
DOES NOT GET ENGRAVED that's was for my reference only, when I created the
files I did the RV4 and RV6 as well and that was so I keep them straight when
I engrave your caps. Again I want to thank everyone for your understanding.
Steve Davis
The Panel Pilot
http://members.aol.com/panelcut
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan E. Files" <BFiles(at)corecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gel Cell Battery |
Bob,
Thank you for the information.
**** Bryan E. Files ****
Ever Fly Maintenance
Palmer, Alaska
A&P, IA, FAA Safety Counselor
mailto:BFiles(at)corecom.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Gel Cell Battery
>
> >
> >Bob,
> >Doesnt the RG batteries ie Panther, have a 3psi pop vent in them that is
why
> >we can not put them inside the passenger compartment of an aircraft
without
> >a vented battery box. On the other hand the Powersonic does not have
this
> >feature since it is suppose to be a gel cell and we can put them in the
> >cabin on a tray and not a vented box.
>
> No, yet another name for RG and starved electrolyte batteries
> is VRSLA for vent regulated, sealed lead acid. All of the
> sealed batteries have some form of over-pressure relief valve
> whether recombinant gas or the older, now nearly obsolete
> "gel" cells. The Panther folk may choose 3 psi for their products,
> last time I discussed it with Skip Koss on Concord's products,
> I think he said they vent at about 1.5 psi. Hawker/Gates
> batteries are on that same order.
>
> I asked Skip why the batteries don't outgass at altitude
> and he said it was because they operated at negative pressure
> inside the case. Concord has been supplying RG batteries to
> the military for years that are operated in un-pressurized
> compartments of aircraft with no degredation due to passage
> of gasses through the vent valve.
>
> Any of the RG batteries can be simply strapped down to a
> tray and operated out in the open. In fact, this is the
> safest way to use them. Out of perhaps a dozen battery
> induced explosions I been aware of over the years, only
> one was internal to a battery. The rest were actually
> battery BOX explosions where severely abused batteries
> outgassed into the battery box and the box provided the
> containment. An RG battery cannot vent liquid. Only gas
> and then only when severely abused. It's better to let it
> barf its innards into a large open volume as opposed to
> containing it in any enclosure.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 N94BD weigh-in |
>
>
>I hope that when you weighed your plane there was a block under the other
>two wheels the same height as the scale so that the plane was always in the
>same plane. Other wise, you may find that you do not have the right
>numbers.
>Of course you did weight it inside out of the wind so those wonderful
>airfoils didn't change the true weight either.
>
>Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
Yup, sure did! The scale came with blocks that are exactly the same height
as the scale platform. A smart level was used to verify the longerons were
level at all times.
Brian Denk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PANELCUT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Problem!! with Cap Engraving Please read if you have |
sent Caps.
Joe
Got you down for B, Sorry about the tab that's just so I don't confuse the
different planes and engrave the wrong gallons. It just for reference.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
What have others done to increase the clearance
between the Filtered Air Box and the training wheel
gear leg? :-) I have been told that the GBI video
shows cutting the filter to allow more clearance at
the carb.
Has anyone cut a piece of the FAB fiberglass off and
then created a slanted replacement piece of fiberglass
to cover it?
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
So. CA, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pdsmith <pdsmith(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 seat floor questions |
Hi Listers:
Pardon my "dumminess" but do the F829 footwell flanges and flooring go under
or on top of the F-830 and F-831 seat floors. I can't tell from DWG 29 or
the video.
If I want to make the floors removable (I read the archives on this), should
I use #8 nutplates or are #6 beefy enough?
Thanks,
Phil Smith, 80691
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinner(at)vcn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A O-360 FAB |
Gary,
A quick and dirty way is to mark the area where you want clearance, heat
the FAB box and press the area down on a flat surface. A more refined fix
would be to cut and fill. We didn't have a clearance problem on Charlie's
160 hp with the nose gear but the FAB box was a bit close to the edge of
the cowl scoop so this is what we did and it worked OK. I guess we can
always make it pretty, now that Charlie has his six about worn out but, at
the time, we were in a hurry to get airborne:)
Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY (1995 RV6 sold after 4 years & 470 hrs) EAA
Tech Counselor # 3726
>What have others done to increase the clearance
>between the Filtered Air Box and the training wheel
>gear leg? :-) I have been told that the GBI video
>shows cutting the filter to allow more clearance at
>the carb.
>
>Has anyone cut a piece of the FAB fiberglass off and
>then created a slanted replacement piece of fiberglass
>to cover it?
>
>
>====
>Gary A. Sobek
>"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
>So. CA, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Yeller Pages Update |
The latest version of the Yeller Pages is online at
www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm
I'm sure you find it useful. Be sure and tell Gary thanks.
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum System |
>Anyway, at this time, I don't want to install a vacuum pump, gyros, a
vacuum
>gauge, etc. I do want to install all of the other stuff so the system is
more
>or less "plug & play" when I get the expensive parts. I assume I'll need a
>filter, a regulator, a firewall pass through, and some tubing. Have I
>forgotten anything?
The regulator can be used as a firewall pass-through. I would think that you
wouldn't be able to do much more than the regulator and the filter. There
are no hoses between these two components so you wouldn't have any hose yet.
It might be difficult to guess where to put the filter and regulator for
optimal routing of the hoses without the other stuff. Either way you're
still going to have much cutting and fitting of hoses up behind the panel,
and possibly cutting holes in the next bulkhead forward for the instruments
and/or hoses. Not quite "plug & play"....
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~50 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need to sell one of my engines... |
Larry, On your list of options you include a prop governor. I am running a
0 320 B3B out of an Apache and the prop. governor that came with my engine
works backwards to the one required if you buy a Hartzell fron Vans. First
time I fired up my prop went to course pitch and on shutdown the oil filter
was extremely bulged out. I mention this in the event you were not aware
of it. I learned the hard way. Seems to me my Governor was a Hamilton
Standard but can check make and model next time I am in the Hanger if you
like.
Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH
Salmon Arm B.C.
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com>
Date: Saturday, December 04, 1999 7:31 PM
Subject: RV-List: Need to sell one of my engines...
>
>Hi Folks,
>
>I need to sell one of my engines, or completely redesign a twin.
>(hummmm a RV12 maybe...)
>
>I have:
>
>For Sale
>
>Lycoming 0320-A1A
>
>History:
>S/N 3475-27
>Was in a Piper Apache N1386P
>Complete logs
>In service 3-1-56
>Majored 6-22-61 1452 hrs TT after apparent gear up landing.
>Top overhaul 5-16-75 at 2996 TT
>This overhaul at 3566 hrs TT
>Conical mount
>Cases done at Divco
>Yellow tagged rods, crank, and cylinders from Rick Romans
>New cam and carb.
>New Slick mags and harnesses
>New Prop Governor
>Fuel Pump
>Oil cooler
>Ring gear
>Most all hardware re-plated
>All applicable AD's complied with (inc oil pump)
>
>Engine is just back from inspection. Not assembled.
>Overhaul labor is paid for at Aeroparts of Arizona but not started yet.
>If I kept the engine I didn't want it assembled until I was ready
>for it. Have not specified HP yet so you could have 150 hp or 160 hp.
>Pistons are already paid for. Overhaul will be by Bill Castles. A very
>respected rebuilder at Phoenix, DVT.
>
>To be complete you will need a starter, alternator and optional vacuum
>pump.
>
>Price:
>
>Assembled and ready to go - $12,500
>Not assembled - $11,600
>
>Warranty - If installed in an airplane at DVT, overhauler will fix anything
>that is not right. He guaranties that it will be right. No real time frame.
>I've
>seen several planes with his engines in them with no problems. I'm going
>to use him on my other engine.
>
>Prices are FOB Phoenix, AZ
>
>
>OR engine #2:
>
>
>Lycoming 0320-A2A
>
>History:
>S/N L-38687-27A
>Was in a Piper TriPacer
>Conical mount
>450hrs SFOH*
>No Logs
>No Mags
>Ring gear
>Carb
>Alternator
>Starter
>Oil cooler
>
>
>* With no logs it's hard to confirm so I took the engine to Lycon and
>had them disassemble and evaluate. They confirmed very low time
>(with no prompting they estimated 400hrs) never been turned crank.
>It is a wide deck. Cylinders showed some sign of wear but not bad.
>They said I should have just run it the way it was. It is machined for
>a fuel pump. Engine is just back from inspection. Not assembled.
>
>Price: $5500
>
>Price is FOB Phoenix, AZ
>
>If I kept it I would buy 160 hp pistons, bearings, gasket set, fuel pump
>and mags. I have a rebuilder that will put it back together for $900 + any
>incidentals. It would be a cheep running low time engine.
>
>
>Let me know...
>
>Larry Olson
>Cave Creek, AZ
>RV6-Finish kit on order
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
Other RMI users report the same. The sensor is enclosed in a
brass plug which seems to ensure that it measures the carb body
temp rather than the mixture temp. It is quite conceivable with this
configuration that there could be ice on the butterfly valve with the
sensor reading well above freezing.
I have the RMI and would like to hear of any practical way of
isolating the sensor from the carb body.
Peter Bennett
RV6 Sydney (not yet flying)
>
>
> Gary, this is an area I have wondered about as well. I too have a temp
> probe on the carb, and the temp always rises as the engine warms. Earlier
> this week, the ambient temp was 0 degrees Celsius before the plane was
> started, and by takeoff, the carb temp had risen to 16 degrees C. I have
> never seen the carb temp go down and it almost always runs at an indicated
> 19 degrees C which is as high as the RMI uMonitor will display.
>
> My guess is that the carb stays warm because it is bolted directly to the
> oil sump.
>
> Sam Buchanan (hoping a bird doesn't fly up the carb intake because the
> Van's carb heat rig is not a true alternate air system...)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | strobe positon question |
I am familiar with the phenomena of strobe light from the top of the
fuselage bouncing about in the cockpit. Because the turtle deck slopes aft,
I wondered if anyone had successfully mounted a strobe on the top aft skin
far enough back so that the light in the cockpit was not a problem. Maybe
nobody has ever done it, but I thought that the RV List would be a good
place to post the question. I am inclined to put a strobe in the Vertical
Stabilizer, but I riveted the tip on about 4-5 years ago, before I thought
of it. That's what's got me thinking about easier-to-mount and
easier-to-service alternatives.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message-----
A strobe behind the canopy could easily reflect off the
instruments/panel/windscreen at night and make your life
miserable.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 seat floor questions |
Hi Phil,
I'm not sure about the numbers but the footwells connect together by a
floor piece that runs between them. this whole assy is removable. I put
the flanges on the wells over the middle piece. As for making the floors
removable, I'd use #8 nutplates. The #6 screws are much weaker. This is
really only a problem here because of the screw snapping off and then
you're faced with having to get the shank of the screw out of the nutplate.
(ask me how I know so much about #6 screws breaking off) If I was to do
the whole thing over I don't think I'd use #6 anywhere, but would go with
#8 instead.
Bill Pagan
N565BW
"The original RV-8A builders page on the web"
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>Hi Listers:
>
>Pardon my "dumminess" but do the F829 footwell flanges and flooring go under
>or on top of the F-830 and F-831 seat floors. I can't tell from DWG 29 or
>the video.
>
>If I want to make the floors removable (I read the archives on this), should
>I use #8 nutplates or are #6 beefy enough?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Phil Smith, 80691
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV3-List Digest: 12/04/99 |
does anyone use this list, or do they use the regular rv list? i own an rv3
and would like to talk to other owners of rv3's.
regards
dan carley
rv3a-148cw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Tach |
RMI's works on oil pressure and RPM and maybe adjusted for different cruise
RPMs.
Have a good day!
Denny Harjehausen
RV-6 - done except for the bugs!
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob U." <r.r.urban(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV3-List: Re: RV3-List Digest: 12/04/99 |
Hi Dan,
Glad to see you here.
I thought I was all alone until now..... other than Matt's notices
showing up occasionally, letting me know the link was up and alive.
I've been going to the regular RV list for lack of action here.
My RV-3 project is in need of most things firewall forward and last
Friday, I went looking for a used prop on the regular RV list.
My project needs a 4 inch spool prop extension,
starter ring gear/flywheel, Mark Landoll harmonic damper, exhausts, etc.
I'm just east of Kansas City, MO and would like to get my project
flying by late 2000.
With your RV flying, what's going on with you?
Bob
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
DFCPAC(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> --> RV3-List message posted by: DFCPAC(at)aol.com
>
> does anyone use this list, or do they use the regular rv list? i own an rv3
> and would like to talk to other owners of rv3's.
>
> regards
> dan carley
> rv3a-148cw
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A O-360 FAB |
Gary, I also had the same clearance problem during construction in my 6A
with the FAB. I have flown for 220 hours now and it has not presented a
problem. My thinking was that I would let the gear leg wear a hole in
the f-glass air box and then repair it with a small fiberglass repair
(simple) but it has never happened.
I guess my advice would be to "not repair the problem until it occurs"
since its not going to be the kind of problem that causes you to abort a
flight. This is the kind of problem you look for during the many times
you'll have the cowl off during your first 200 hours of flight.
chet
"Gary A. Sobek" wrote:
>
>
> What have others done to increase the clearance
> between the Filtered Air Box and the training wheel
> gear leg? :-) I have been told that the GBI video
> shows cutting the filter to allow more clearance at
> the carb.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Prop pitch confusion |
Every prop manf. has a different way of determining mean pitch station & cord
position along the blade. The only item I am able to quantify among the
different manf.s is the length. I use word of mouth on the specific vender as
to what specific grind on the blade. Grind on the blade is almost meaningless to
compair among different manufactures.......
pperryrv(at)hotmail.com on 12/03/99 10:16:04 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Prop pitch confusion
I don't get it, I'm just starting to look for a prop for my plane and I
can't seem to get the picture on how to pick the right pitch. I looked up
the prop spec on Sensenich's wood prop web site and found they recomend a
68"x 78-80" prop for an RV-4 with 150hp. I see Thomas McIntyre advertise
his prop as a good 230mph RV3 cruise prop with only a 71" pitch - he flew it
so it must work, but how? Are there big differences in the way prop makers
determine pitch?
Pat Perry
Dallas, PA
RV-4 fuse almost done
Engine being rebuilt
I need a prop!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 N94BD weigh-in |
Good Job! Well done!
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Denk <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Saturday, December 04, 1999 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 N94BD weigh-in
>
>
>>
>>
>>I hope that when you weighed your plane there was a block under the other
>>two wheels the same height as the scale so that the plane was always in
the
>>same plane. Other wise, you may find that you do not have the right
>>numbers.
>>Of course you did weight it inside out of the wind so those wonderful
>>airfoils didn't change the true weight either.
>>
>>Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
>
>Yup, sure did! The scale came with blocks that are exactly the same height
>as the scale platform. A smart level was used to verify the longerons were
>level at all times.
>
>Brian Denk
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BumFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A O-360 FAB |
In a message dated 12/4/99 22:09:10, rv6flier(at)yahoo.com writes:
What have others done to increase the clearance
between the Filtered Air Box and the training wheel
gear leg? :-) I have been told that the GBI video
shows cutting the filter to allow more clearance at
the carb.
Has anyone cut a piece of the FAB fiberglass off and
then created a slanted replacement piece of fiberglass
to cover it?
>>
Actually my in service experience would suggest that a very small clearance
is probably ok. Nonetheless I did create a dimple at the point of closest
clearance, by applying a heated steel tube of the approximate diameter of the
gear leg to the fiberglass FAB at the same angle as the gear leg. Then I
reinforced as required.
Still not at all sure it was necessary but it looks cool and didn't take much
effort.
BTW my recollection of the Orndorff tape was to cut the filter where it was
interfering with the bottom of the carb bell-- a different thing altogether.
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A O-360 FAB |
Our video does not show cutting the Filtered Air Box. Yes, this was a
problem with the old gear legs that you fiberglassed the wood fairing on.
With the new gear and the fiberglass fairing, this should not be a problem
George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
Radio trouble shooting still. I changed antennas. The reception increased
dramtically. The transmission is still garbled. Note as bad, but still
not really readable and far from clear.
Could this be the radio itself? I would think the transmission would not
have improved at all if it was the intercom. But then again what I know
about these things?
I am looking for a radio expert locaaly here. Hope one of you guys have
some more simple ideas I can try.
Have a good day!
Denny Harjehausen
RV-6 - done except for the bugs!
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mkraus01(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV4 Horiz Stab gap question |
One quick question, how big of a gap should I leave between the horizontal
stabilizer and the outboard portion of the counterbalance rib?? I was
worried about this area flexing in flight and binding the elevator if the gap
is not sufficient. I could not find this dimension on the plans. (I am
referring to the gap between the HS skin and the counterbalance rib skin)
Thanks
-Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 seat floor questions |
Phil, in addition to Bill's remarks I would suggest that you think twice
before making them removeable for two reasons. There's a LOT of stuff that
would need to come out in order to remove the panels, including the entire
flap mechanism. And second that's a whole lot of platenuts! Like Bill I put
my footwells in from the top. Can't remember now but it seems like the plans
call for that... look closely for the dotted line indicating one part is on
top of another.
Regards,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, making fuel lines today so I can remove the wings
www.pacifier.com/~randyl
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6BLDR <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
jim jewell wrote:
>
>
> Hello Jerry Calvert:
>
> Apperently Galls.com/etc. is no longer a valid web site.
> My attempts to find Galls on the web failed, is it the same for others out
> there?
> jim Kelowna BC.
OOOOPS! Gall's has redone their sit and here are the new url's:
The multi-flasher demo:
<http://www.galls.com/service/FS013.jsp>
The original flasher:
<http://www.galls.com/service/FS025.jsp>
To view wiring diagrams, scroll down on page listed below and select
the product number from the droplist and hit submit:
<http://www.galls.com/service/techsupport.jsp>
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Hampton <mrbrownstone(at)home.com> |
Had similar problem with a TKM radio, have your radio benchchecked.
Denny Harjehausen wrote:
>
>
> Radio trouble shooting still. I changed antennas. The reception increased
> dramtically. The transmission is still garbled. Note as bad, but still
> not really readable and far from clear.
>
> Could this be the radio itself? I would think the transmission would not
> have improved at all if it was the intercom. But then again what I know
> about these things?
>
> I am looking for a radio expert locaaly here. Hope one of you guys have
> some more simple ideas I can try.
>
> Have a good day!
> Denny Harjehausen
> RV-6 - done except for the bugs!
> Lebanon, OR
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WAYNE BONESTEEL <wayneb(at)oakweb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: bottom flap skin |
Earl I had to jog the skin just as Joe Hine indicated to get the flap
trailing
edge up where it aligned with the aileron and fit the wing form cutout.
What I want to inject, when drilling the rear spar hole make sure the
wing is not pushed back (swept aft) as I believe I did, because it puts
the flap tie rod mount plate too close to the fuselage, mine actually hit
and I had to peen the fuselage skin for clearance, looks OK now but what
a pain.
Wayne
EARL FORTNER wrote:
> Got the wings mounted on the RV4. Getting ready to set the incidence
> angle, etc. Went to mount the flap and have interference between the
> lower fuselage skin and the bottom flap skin on the fuse side. Looks
> like I will have to cut the bottom fuselage skin flush with the fuselage
> side to get enough clearance and maybe the flap skin also. Will get the
> plans out and study some more.
>
> Any short cuts or advice will be welcome.
>
> Thanks Earl RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DAVENDANA1(at)aol.com |
I haven't been following this, so it may be a very dumb question. Have you
tried another headset (or mike)?
Good luck!
Dave Funk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
I believe I experienced carb ice yesterday morning in my RV-6. Not certain
as my carb temp probe isn't hooked up yet. But on run-up, when I pulled the
carb heat, the tach went down about 100 RPM, then slowly came back up about
50 RPM. OAT was 323 degrees with a 0 degree
temp/due point spread.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~50 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 N94BD weigh-in |
>
>Of course you did weight it inside out of the wind so those wonderful
>airfoils didn't change the true weight either.
I suppose this makes sense but isn't it true that unless the wind reaches
the stall speed, NO lift is generated?
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 N94BD weigh-in |
>>Of course you did weight it inside out of the wind so those wonderful
>>airfoils didn't change the true weight either.
>I suppose this makes sense but isn't it true that unless the wind reaches
>the stall speed, NO lift is generated?
>hal
Not true. Any airflow over the wing generates lift, stall speed is where
the maximum available lift matches the wieght of the plane.
A light breeze would be enough the make the plane weigh incorrectly.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
RV-8 80091 Riviting 2nd Wing.
1/5 Starduster II N23UT flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 N94BD weigh-in |
Not true! Anytime air is flowing over an airfoil it is generating lift. It
might not be enough to lift the airplane but it is enough to overcome some
of the pull of gravity making it appear to weigh less. Stall is when the
airflow due to angle of attack becomes turbulent and the lift is greatly
reduced. Even then there still will be some lift. If there wasn't your
plane would not go into a spin because of the unequal lift between the two
wings.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
-----Original Message-----
From: Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 N94BD weigh-in
>
>>
>>Of course you did weight it inside out of the wind so those wonderful
>>airfoils didn't change the true weight either.
>
>I suppose this makes sense but isn't it true that unless the wind reaches
>the stall speed, NO lift is generated?
>
>hal
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <skydiven(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | steel braided lines |
Stay away from steel braided hoses unless you intend to change them every
year. Why you ask? When that pretty steel braid breaks down a little you
have several strands of steel poking in the rubber beneath it. You won't
see it coming, likely the broken strands are in the center...but when it
bursts - BAD DAY. I've seen this in so many race cars over the last several
years (steel brake lines) that most of us are back to running the not so
stiff, but much safer rubber lines. Like I said, that is unless you have
the budget and time to replace them fairly often as a precautionary measure.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4/RV-8 rear seat throttle |
Fellow Listers:
Working on the interior of my RV-4. I plan to install a rear seat throttle
assembly of some type (only need a throttle lever). I have made a very nice
custom throttle quadrant for the front (ala Lyle Hefel's RV-4 and RV-8). I
was wondering if anyone has any specific ideas on the methods to fabricate
and connect a rear seat throttle lever to the front one. I know the RV-8
has a factory designed rear seat throttle and perhaps this (or its design)
may be adaptable to the -4. Any comments or does anyone have any photos on
their website of a RV-8 rear seat throttle arrangement?
Doug
===========
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Orr <morr(at)vt.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 N94BD weigh-in |
Nope it's not true! ;-)
Here's why:
Stall is the minimum velocity which you can make lift equal to the weight of
the aircraft. The stall speed is dependent only on the atmospheric
conditions (density), weight, and wing area of the aircraft. It is fixed
with respect to the angle of attack that the aircraft stalls at. (RV's have
a NACA 23012 (I thought), CLmax is ~1.8 @ ~18 degrees for wing alone from
"Theory of wing Sections")
Lift is generated by the wing at any airspeed dependent on the angle of
attack (AOA). It is true that if you are at the zero lift AOA for the
configuration you will have zero lift, even with flow over the aircraft. If
you are at any velocity and not exactly at the RV-8 zero lift AOA (whatever
that is) you will be generating lift, perpendicular to the direction of the
wind incident to the wing.
Lift=CL*.5*rho*v
2*s
CL=lift coefficient
rho=density
v=velocity
s=wing area
Stall is when the MAXIMUM CL (lift coefficient) is generated, the drag
simply goes up a huge amount. Beyond stall (flow separation from the wing)
you can still generate lift but the drag is quite high and the lift
coefficient drops off. It can even start to climb back up but the power
required is huge as the drag is very high.
Probably more info. then you wanted.
Matt
>
> I suppose this makes sense but isn't it true that unless the wind reaches
> the stall speed, NO lift is generated?
>
> hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
>Radio trouble shooting still......
Don't know if you've tried it yet but your trouble may be in the antenna
cable. Test the resistance between the center wire and the sheilding: there
should be no ohm reading. It could still be the cable. Junk it and make a
new one. I had a batch of bad cable once and the radio did sort of ok (about
5 miles was it). Replacing the whole cable made it a new radio.
Maybe so, maybe no.....
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: steel braided lines |
>
>
>Stay away from steel braided hoses unless you intend to change them every
>year. Why you ask? When that pretty steel braid breaks down a little you
>have several strands of steel poking in the rubber beneath it. You won't
>see it coming, likely the broken strands are in the center...but when it
>bursts - BAD DAY. I've seen this in so many race cars over the last
>several
>years (steel brake lines) that most of us are back to running the not so
>stiff, but much safer rubber lines. Like I said, that is unless you have
>the budget and time to replace them fairly often as a precautionary
>measure.
>
>Bill
Not only is this an issue, but the braid will saw it's way through anything
it rubs on with engine vibration providing the motivation. So, those that do
have them, make sure they will not rub on the engine mount, wires, primer
lines, control cables, etc. Like anything, they do a fine job as long as
they aren't neglected.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
two braided hoses in my engine compartment.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Horiz Stab gap question |
I have 1/16 on my rv4 but am probably a year away from flying.
Mkraus01(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> One quick question, how big of a gap should I leave between the horizontal
> stabilizer and the outboard portion of the counterbalance rib?? I was
> worried about this area flexing in flight and binding the elevator if the gap
> is not sufficient. I could not find this dimension on the plans. (I am
> referring to the gap between the HS skin and the counterbalance rib skin)
> Thanks
> -Mike
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
tailwind-list(at)matronics.com, pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | List Support Auction Continues... |
Dear Listers,
The List Support Auction is still underway with about 5 or 6 days left.
I have been receiving a number of nice bids on the items generously
donated by Steven and Archie. I've listed the items up for auction
again below and have included the current high-bid.
If there is an item that you wish to bid on, please send your BID along
with the DESCRIPTION OF THE ITEM you are bidding on to the following
email address:
bids(at)matronics.com
Thanks again to Steven and Archie for donating these items to support
the List. And thank you to those that have sent in bids so far!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
=====================================================================
Steven DiNieri (capsteve(at)wzrd.com) has generously offered to donate a
CoolStart RS 700-II to support the Lists this year. This unit retails
for $299. I have put a brochure for the product up on the web server
and you can have a look at it here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution/rsflyer.jpg
NEW:
$175 * CoolStart RS 700-II
=====================================================================
Archie (archie97(at)earthlink.net) has generously donated a number of
interesting items to the Support the List cause this year. Each of
them are described below. If you have additional questions, please
email Archie directly at:
archie97(at)earthlink.net
> Upon receipt of the donation amount, items will be shipped.
> No reasonable offer refused!
> Unreasonable ones considered!
NEW:
- * Heated Pitot Tube, 24v. "L" shaped.
- * Aero Instruments #5814-2
- * Flap Motor w/ adjustable stops. 24v.
- * Comm.Aircraft Prods. #D145-00-35-7
USED:
$45 * Narco Transponder AT5-A
- * Astronautics amplifier servo 53-005-214 mod#P1SA
$15 * Narco altitude reporter. to 25k' Model# AR500
- * King KS-505 power supply modulator
- * RCA AVQ55 Weather radar antenna MI 591000
=====================================================================
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
>I believe I experienced carb ice yesterday morning in my RV-6. Not certain
>as my carb temp probe isn't hooked up yet. But on run-up, when I pulled the
>carb heat, the tach went down about 100 RPM, then slowly came back up about
>50 RPM. OAT was 323 degrees with a 0 degree
>temp/due point spread.
Oops -- that should read 32 degrees... !
Randall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: bottom flap skin |
I got the same problem but have not aligned the wing to make sure I dont
have any sweep back. Thats my next step.
Thanks EArl
WAYNE BONESTEEL wrote:
>
>
> Earl I had to jog the skin just as Joe Hine indicated to get the flap
> trailing
> edge up where it aligned with the aileron and fit the wing form cutout.
>
> What I want to inject, when drilling the rear spar hole make sure the
> wing is not pushed back (swept aft) as I believe I did, because it puts
> the flap tie rod mount plate too close to the fuselage, mine actually hit
> and I had to peen the fuselage skin for clearance, looks OK now but what
> a pain.
>
> Wayne
>
> EARL FORTNER wrote:
>
> > Got the wings mounted on the RV4. Getting ready to set the incidence
> > angle, etc. Went to mount the flap and have interference between the
> > lower fuselage skin and the bottom flap skin on the fuse side. Looks
> > like I will have to cut the bottom fuselage skin flush with the fuselage
> > side to get enough clearance and maybe the flap skin also. Will get the
> > plans out and study some more.
> >
> > Any short cuts or advice will be welcome.
> >
> > Thanks Earl RV4
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Strandjord" <emstrand(at)isd.net> |
| Subject: | SourceRV.com == Jeremy Benedict |
:-) ON:
Listers, I have been "lurking" on the list for about two months (and sent a
contribution). The list is a gold mine of very useful information.
However, like any "mine" many tons of ore must be processed to glean mere
ounces of pure gold. The RV list is what we in the business call an
"un-moderated" list, anything goes. Threads about exploding mice, 767
elevator splits, saving whales, the amount of water in liquid ozygen, and
other non-related issues are interesting reading but dont help me finish my
project. Dont get me wrong, the first thing I do when I get home from work
every night, is check email for the RVlist digest -- it's interesting, fun,
and contains good information. If I thew out 99% of it, comments from
"electric Bob", Sam, and a few other experts justify "mining" through the
rest.
:-) Still on:
For less than half the sum I contributed to this list, Jeremy is providing
MODERATED service, fully supported and sanctioned by the manufacturor.
Do the math. Clients of mine invest between 5 and 20 thousnad dollars on
hardware, software, and services just to get a basic "commerical duty" web
site up and running. I sure that Jeremy has made a simlar investment --
without any guarntees of success. (Nit Picker Alert -- yes, he can share the
investment with his other ventures) If 1000 Rv builders sign up at $24 a
shot (SourceRV's gross income is at best -- pretty small), he still has to
pay off his investment, pay for his connection, gather and post content, and
pay taxes! I can only hope that the other portions of his company will be
able to subsidize the RV portion.
:-) Still on:
I had the pleasure of meeting Jeremy at OSH this year. (I had just sent in
a big check to Van for a tailkit and 8QB the week before). I had a simple
question about the plans. Everyone else in the Van's booth had wilted from
the heat and was "hiding" behind the counter avoiding eye contact. :-)
Jeremy was the only one that was approachable, outgoing, intellegent, and
downright friendly. He told me that the QB had a two page addendum to the
preview plans that explained the construction sequence and differences. As
we talked about Van's existing web site, I positively commented about its
organization and content, but wished it could be more up-to-date. I also
told him that if he ever wanted to move to Minnesota, a developement job
would be wating for him. :-) :-). (I learned later that he did most (all?)
of the work without compensation and felt badly that I had asked for more).
From this experience and the helpful comments Jeremy has made to this list,
I'm sure he a selfless giving person.
(IMHO) I think everyone would agree that VAN's new Site is a vast improvent
on an already good thing.
I think that SourceRV and the RVlist complement each other very well. User
experience and entertainment from one. Plans updates, unbroken links,
drawings, and a library of pictures (each worth a thousand words), etc. from
the other.
Sorry about the long note. My experience with Mr. Benedict was so positive,
i had to share it.
:-) still on!..
Bye...
Eric RV8QB (81057 - 586) (polishing HS609PP's)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dgmurray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: steel braided lines |
Subject: Re: RV-List: steel braided lines
>>Stay away from steel braided hoses unless you intend to change them every
>>year. Why you ask? When that pretty steel braid breaks down a little you
>>have several strands of steel poking in the rubber beneath it. You won't
>>see it coming, likely the broken strands are in the center...but when it
>>bursts - BAD DAY. I've seen this in so many race cars over the last
>>several
>>years (steel brake lines) that most of us are back to running the not so
>>stiff, but much safer rubber lines. Like I said, that is unless you have
>>the budget and time to replace them fairly often as a precautionary
>>measure.
>>
>>Bill
>
>
>Not only is this an issue, but the braid will saw it's way through anything
>it rubs on with engine vibration providing the motivation. So, those that
do
>have them, make sure they will not rub on the engine mount, wires, primer
>lines, control cables, etc. Like anything, they do a fine job as long as
>they aren't neglected.
>
>Brian Denk
>RV8 N94BD
>two braided hoses in my engine compartment.
So - if steel braided lines are so bad, why is Van's supplying these to us.
Is it only because he wants repeat business each year? I doubt it. Van's has
been straight up with all the builders I have talked to and I cannot see him
sending out a product that could potentially cause failures on an aircraft.
I have all my lines made out of the steel braided variety and all are
covered with firesleeve. Do you think that the hoses still need replacing
every year?
Doug Murray RV-6 Just a few more million finishing touches :-))
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net> |
Would like to pass on my experience with carb ice over the years and how I
have handled it. Most of my flying has been in the cooler temperature range
with a lot of it north of 60 degrees and above the arctic circle were carb
ice is a consideration at any time of the year.
Have found that any carburated engine weather it be a small horizontally
opposed or a twin row radial will develop carb ice given the right
conditions. With all certified aircraft that I have flown the carb heat
available was always adequate provided carb ice was detected early enough.
With a fixed pitch prop in cruise a slow loss of RPM was it. With a
constant speed a slow loss of manifold pressure was it. With the constant
speed I found you have to be alert or your first warning might be a rough
running engine.
If carb ice is suspected I always use full heat, if there is much of a
build-up this is followed by some roughness as the water passes through.
Usually return to cold and apply again as required. If conditions dictate
I use full carb heat in the circuit when landing and in the case of a go
around back to full cold. Use of carb heat with engines equipped with
automatic carburetors is another subject that I won't get into here as this
will already be to long.
I have never experienced any signs of ice with fuel injection. Don't know
if it is possible without a venturi, someone else may wish to comment on
this.
When I built my RV 6 and installed Vans filtered air box the question was
what to do about carb heat and a alternate air source. I will not fly a
carburated engine without a source of carb heat. I put a flapper valve in
the throat of the air box hinged to the top with a depth of 2 1/2 inches
from the hinge pin and a width of 4 inches leaving about a 1/16 inch
clearance around the flapper when open and 90 degrees to the top surface of
the air box. I used 040 for the flapper and a piece of MS20001-4 extruded
hinge. When installed this put this opening very nearly under the two
exhaust pipes on the crossover system. I decided to do some testing with
this before deciding on a positive source of carb heat.
One that I remember in particular was a flight of some 2 1/2 hours over
flat country in marginal VFR conditions and temperatures around the
freezing mark with occasional light precip. resulting in some leading edge
ice. Very little carb ice was detected and was easily handled by opening
the flapper and using the heat from inside the cowling and the crossover
exhaust. By leaving the heat on all the time there was no carb ice and
only a slight change in performance.
It seems to me that the RV 6 engine installation (in my case a 0360) with
Vans airbox is not prone to carb ice. While this flapper valve seems to do
the job I still feel that a positive source of carb heat is the correct way
to go. I don't get a significant drop in RPM when it is used.
I do believe it serves as an excellent means of getting rid of impact snow
when flying in these conditions. In the event of a bird strike I feel two
things would happen. If the bird or pieces were small enough to get through
the cowl inlet it shoudn't be to serious due to the excellent design of
Vans air box with the full circle filter and large area. On the other hand
if the bird was large enough plug the entrance in the scoop then the
flapper would serve as a alternate source.
I have never experienced a bird strike through a propeller in 55 years of
flying so don't feel it is a real concern.
I converted to fuel injection before installing a positive carb heat source
so still use my flapper valve for both heat and alternate air. I use it on
the ground in dusty conditions to give the filter a bit if a break. Had to
replace the hinge at the 450 hour mark.
Again just my experiences and thoughts and hope I didn't bore you.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. RV 6 & 6A in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: steel braided lines |
> >Not only is this an issue, but the braid will saw it's way through
>anything
> >it rubs on with engine vibration providing the motivation. So, those that
>do
> >have them, make sure they will not rub on the engine mount, wires, primer
> >lines, control cables, etc. Like anything, they do a fine job as long as
> >they aren't neglected.
> >
> >Brian Denk
> >RV8 N94BD
> >two braided hoses in my engine compartment.
>
>
> So - if steel braided lines are so bad, why is Van's supplying these to
>us.
>Is it only because he wants repeat business each year? I doubt it. Van's
>has
>been straight up with all the builders I have talked to and I cannot see
>him
>sending out a product that could potentially cause failures on an aircraft.
>I have all my lines made out of the steel braided variety and all are
>covered with firesleeve. Do you think that the hoses still need replacing
>every year?
>
>Doug Murray RV-6 Just a few more million finishing touches :-))
>Southern Alberta
>
>
As for my comment, I still consider them to be outstandingly durable and
reliable, which is why I used two of them for my fuel pressure and oil
pressure hoses from the engine to the gauge or sender. In your
installation, with firesleeve encasing them, the chafing issue is taken care
of.
All aircraft hoses have a finite lifetime. The most recent information on
the subject I have seen says to replace all the hoses at major engine
overhaul, or five years, whichever comes first. This applies to rubber hoses
with inner stainless braid. Sounds like a good idea to me.
Have fun with all the millions of details before you fly! I know exactly
what that's like. ;)
Brian Denk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
EARL FORTNER wrote:
>
> Chuck, I just checked the incidence per SK-51 drawing and the wing needs
> to be raised aprox 1/4 inch at rear, however the rear carry through spar
> is bottomed out on the lower wing skin. If I go with this which way and
> how much do I raise the front of the stab. It cannot be lowered and to
> raise the rear of stab would require drilling new mount holes which I do
> not want to do.
>
> I will go back and read your orginal reply and see if I can figure it
> out.
>
> Thanks, Earl
>
> Chuck Brietigam wrote:
> >
> > Earl, just as a side note. I would suggest aligning you wings so that
> > the wings and flaps align perfectly with the bottom of the fuselage
> > (without having to make any "joggle").Yes, the angle of incidence
> > between the wing and the fuselage will be different than what Van's
> > drawning states, but the fuselage/wing intersection will be cleaner and
> > easier to build. Now find your new angle of incidence and transfer any
> > increase or decrease in the wing/fuselage angle of incidence back to the
> > horizontal stab. That way you have not changed the relative angle
> > between the two flying surfaces. The only thing you have altered is the
> > angle of attack of the fuselage flying through the air. I doubt that you
> > will ever be able see any marked change in the aircraft overall
> > performance since I would imagine your overall change to the wing was
> > absolutely miniscule to begin with. I know of many flying RV-3,4,and 6's
> > to have this change.If this is confusing, please call me at
> > 502-254-5079. Chuck Brietigam
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A O-360 FAB |
In a message dated 12/4/99 9:41:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rv6flier(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< What have others done to increase the clearance
between the Filtered Air Box and the training wheel
gear leg? :-) I have been told that the GBI video
shows cutting the filter to allow more clearance at
the carb. >>
I marked the area, heated the bedpan airbox with a heat gun and then pushed a
piece of tubing into it at the correct angle to form a dimple in this area.
It clears by .375".
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A. W. Triff" <tekrep(at)wans.net> |
"Rocket List"
| Subject: | RV-8 HS Stab Rivet Spacing/Alignment |
HI Listers,
I'm having a little problem with my RV-8 HS stabilizer skeleton and am
wondering if anyone else has come across the same problem. When laying the
skins over the skeleton, the intersection of the HS404 (center tip rib),
HS405 (center aft rib), HS602 (HSFWD spar channel) and HS814 (reinforcing
angle at FWD spar center), the first rivet FWD of the FWD spar on the tip
rib does not have sufficient material in the rib for proper edge distance
and actually hits the spar on one side (the "ear" on the HS814 bottom
reinforcing angle is a bit longer than the other side but is at the proper
dimension per the plans). and is right next to the spar ear on the other
side. This is where Van tells you to cut a notch in the rib for the spar
channel, but then they put a rivet right in the middle of the notch. I'll
either have to file the spar ear way down, or move the rivet out on the
HS404 rib, any suggestions?
Similarly, the aft center rib (HS405) does not seem to have enough material
in the end of the rib flange (but the rib does fit in place) to give proper
edge distance for a rivet where the skin says it should be.
Since I believe this area is under a fairing, can I put a rivet in a little
farther out on the rib? Would this compromise structural integrity (it
doesn't seem like much of a compromise). Should I put a rivet in it anyway
since there will be a skin hole or can I leave the hole empty?
Thanks for any input you may have,
Wes Triff
tekrep(at)wans.net
RV-8 tail/F-1 Rocket
Atlanta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PANELCUT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | ENGRAVING FUEL CAPS LAST CHANCE TO VOTE |
Group
I have gotten a great response to the fuel cap delima, but there are a few
who have not responded to the last post. If I do not hear from you they will
be engraved just like Paul's. Thanks to everyone who got back to me quickly,
this has been a nightmare but your response has eased my mind.
Thanks to all
Steve Davis
The panel pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "christopher huey" <clhuey(at)sprynet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: steel braided lines |
Braided hoses are used extensively throughout the aerospace industry. If
you ever look into the wheel well of any commercial jetliner you will see
steel braided hoses. They are used for brakes, hydraulics systems, etc...I
would have no problem using steel braided hoses on any aircraft system
which I thought necessary. And a added note: The last fuel problem I had
was with a hard Alum fuel line....small crack at the flare. As said before
all components of a airplane need to be inspected on a regular basis...
C.H.
----------
> From: dgmurray <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: steel braided lines
> Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 3:24 PM
>
>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: steel braided lines
>
>
> >>Stay away from steel braided hoses unless you intend to change them
every
> >>year. Why you ask? When that pretty steel braid breaks down a little
you
> >>have several strands of steel poking in the rubber beneath it. You
won't
> >>see it coming, likely the broken strands are in the center...but when
it
> >>bursts - BAD DAY. I've seen this in so many race cars over the last
> >>several
> >>years (steel brake lines) that most of us are back to running the not
so
> >>stiff, but much safer rubber lines. Like I said, that is unless you
have
> >>the budget and time to replace them fairly often as a precautionary
> >>measure.
> >>
> >>Bill
> >
> >
> >Not only is this an issue, but the braid will saw it's way through
anything
> >it rubs on with engine vibration providing the motivation. So, those
that
> do
> >have them, make sure they will not rub on the engine mount, wires,
primer
> >lines, control cables, etc. Like anything, they do a fine job as long as
> >they aren't neglected.
> >
> >Brian Denk
> >RV8 N94BD
> >two braided hoses in my engine compartment.
>
>
> So - if steel braided lines are so bad, why is Van's supplying these to
us.
> Is it only because he wants repeat business each year? I doubt it. Van's
has
> been straight up with all the builders I have talked to and I cannot see
him
> sending out a product that could potentially cause failures on an
aircraft.
> I have all my lines made out of the steel braided variety and all are
> covered with firesleeve. Do you think that the hoses still need
replacing
> every year?
>
> Doug Murray RV-6 Just a few more million finishing touches :-))
> Southern Alberta
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <skydiven(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | to steel or not to steel |
Keep in mind that a race car takes more abuse than the average airplane and
the brake lines are flexed more often than the ones under your RV's cowl.
The steel braided lines do fail, much quicker than the rubber variety, but
how long they will last in an airplane is something you can decide for
yourself. I have now seen two VERY expensive Porsche race cars go flying
off the track at over 130 mph do to stainless brake lines bursting and the
subsequent loss of control. One unfortunate soul got to write off his $150k
car due to a $30 brake line. The braid is there to minimize tube expansion
under heavy pressure....what it also does is hide the hose from any kind of
inspection as well as holding any abrasive dirt in contact with the rubber
so that flexing can cause damage. This is one of those subjects where the
builder obviously just makes a choice, like whether or not to use pop rivets
in the empennage. Just because an obviously talented manufacturer supplies
or recommends it does not mean it can not be improved upon, or that other
industries have not tested that product far more than Vans has. I'm not
claiming to be an authority on this subject, just giving up a point of
consideration.
Bill
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of dgmurray
>Sent: Sunday, December 05, 1999 4:25 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: steel braided lines
>
>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: steel braided lines
>
>
>>>Stay away from steel braided hoses unless you intend to change them every
>>>year. Why you ask? When that pretty steel braid breaks down a
>little you
>>>have several strands of steel poking in the rubber beneath it. You won't
>>>see it coming, likely the broken strands are in the center...but when it
>>>bursts - BAD DAY. I've seen this in so many race cars over the last
>>>several
>>>years (steel brake lines) that most of us are back to running the not so
>>>stiff, but much safer rubber lines. Like I said, that is unless you have
>>>the budget and time to replace them fairly often as a precautionary
>>>measure.
>>>
>>>Bill
>>
>>
>>Not only is this an issue, but the braid will saw it's way
>through anything
>>it rubs on with engine vibration providing the motivation. So, those that
>do
>>have them, make sure they will not rub on the engine mount, wires, primer
>>lines, control cables, etc. Like anything, they do a fine job as long as
>>they aren't neglected.
>>
>>Brian Denk
>>RV8 N94BD
>>two braided hoses in my engine compartment.
>
>
> So - if steel braided lines are so bad, why is Van's supplying
>these to us.
>Is it only because he wants repeat business each year? I doubt it.
>Van's has
>been straight up with all the builders I have talked to and I
>cannot see him
>sending out a product that could potentially cause failures on an aircraft.
>I have all my lines made out of the steel braided variety and all are
>covered with firesleeve. Do you think that the hoses still need replacing
>every year?
>
>Doug Murray RV-6 Just a few more million finishing touches :-))
>Southern Alberta
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV3-List: Re: RV3-List Digest: 12/04/99 |
hi bob,bob, and rob,
good to here from all of you. how have you been rob? i guessed the rv3
newsletter was a little hard to tackle. i agree with all of you, we should
use the rv3 list. the regular rv list is ok but mostly talk about 6's and
eights. i'm located on long island in new york. i did not build my rv3a i
purchased it from randy compton in fl. but the way he bought a pitts s1 and
is very unhappy with it. he wanted to buy his rv back. i've had it for about
7 months and it's one heck of a machine. i love it. i really flys great. i've
just started doing basic aerobatics with it. you gotta see this thing roll.
don't even need rudders plant your feet on the floor pitch up a little and
bang the stick over. i have an 0-320 lyc. and i can cruise at 165 knots at
2400 rpm at 7 gallons an hour. climb rate is over 2000 fpm. and the thing is
like a pussy cat to fly. rob, i took a look at installing the sliding canopy
i think to leave well enough alone. anyway i have an antenna right behind the
canopy that i would have to move. i'm just gonna leave it like it is. so
how's the restoration going? i really like to see this list work out it's
always nice to chat with others that have the same plane.
take care
dan carley
rv3a-148cw
i'll inform chuck about this list. did you get the new calender yet. chuck's
rv3 is the first one listed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Ground Adjustable Rudder Pedals - 8A |
Anyone building an 8A with ground adjustable rudder pedals . . . the plans
show a left and right "F-802G" (drawing OP-3). These are also shown on
Drawing 24. However, on my QB kit these are not there . . . and it looks
like these may have a function for the tail dragger version but not the tri.
Has anyone run up against this? The aft end of F-8108 (L & R) are bent to
provide clearance for both of these--but my 8A QB doesn't have them. This
may be a question for Van's.
Thanks in advance,
Rick Jory, Highlands Ranch, Co
RV8A QB . . . fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV3-List: Re: RV3-List Digest: 12/04/99 |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV3-List: Re: RV3-List Digest: 12/04/99 |
Hello Dan,
I haven't seen too much on this list either. But I keep watching.
Jim Ayers
N47RV RV-3 SN 50 Maroon Marauder (down for electric system overhaul & annual,
fuel system change completed)
SN 306 RV-3 (basic structure complete, need to complete rudder & elevator)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: steel braided lines |
The use of steel hoses are the best you can buy for airplanes. Not
comparing it to a race car, All the large transports I flew used them with
almost no failure in the hoses themselves usually the failure was at the
flare end. They are used almost always in the engine compartments of jet
engines, and they are used for lines on the gear of B-747, and there they
really shake, but of course they don't shake like a race car. I would not
have any fear of using them, as I did on my last RV, and plan on using them
again in my latest project, If I can afford them. They are the best. Of
course this is only and old Flight Engineer talking.
Harvey Sigmon RV-6AQB - Rudder Stuff.
----- Original Message -----
From: dgmurray <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 1999 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: steel braided lines
>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: steel braided lines
>
>
> >>Stay away from steel braided hoses unless you intend to change them
every
> >>year. Why you ask? When that pretty steel braid breaks down a little
you
> >>have several strands of steel poking in the rubber beneath it. You
won't
> >>see it coming, likely the broken strands are in the center...but when it
> >>bursts - BAD DAY. I've seen this in so many race cars over the last
> >>several
> >>years (steel brake lines) that most of us are back to running the not so
> >>stiff, but much safer rubber lines. Like I said, that is unless you
have
> >>the budget and time to replace them fairly often as a precautionary
> >>measure.
> >>
> >>Bill
> >
> >
> >Not only is this an issue, but the braid will saw it's way through
anything
> >it rubs on with engine vibration providing the motivation. So, those that
> do
> >have them, make sure they will not rub on the engine mount, wires, primer
> >lines, control cables, etc. Like anything, they do a fine job as long as
> >they aren't neglected.
> >
> >Brian Denk
> >RV8 N94BD
> >two braided hoses in my engine compartment.
>
>
> So - if steel braided lines are so bad, why is Van's supplying these to
us.
> Is it only because he wants repeat business each year? I doubt it. Van's
has
> been straight up with all the builders I have talked to and I cannot see
him
> sending out a product that could potentially cause failures on an
aircraft.
> I have all my lines made out of the steel braided variety and all are
> covered with firesleeve. Do you think that the hoses still need replacing
> every year?
>
> Doug Murray RV-6 Just a few more million finishing touches :-))
> Southern Alberta
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denton Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: steel braided lines |
Flight test is coming soon for me. Hoses worry me. I was told unofficially
by a FAA man that the RV-8 that crashed locally had no oil. He said there
was nothing official about where the oil went. I did as many other did
locally and made my own oil and fuel lines. I did them with Aeroquip 303
hose and 491 fittings, then firesleeved them. One of the local EAA tech
guys instructed me on it.
This morning I was doing another engine run with the cowl off. I noticed
some specks of oil appearing on the canopy. I shut down and investigated.
There was oil scattered around the aft left side of the engine & firewall.
It appears to be a hose as the most was around one of the firesleeves ends,
but I did not have time to start trouble shooting. That will start tomorrow.
I had excercised the prop for the first time. It could be a prop govenor
gasket...???
Have you vets assemebled your own hoses using Aeroquip 303 & 491?
I am getting second thoughts on my hoses!
Have a great Day!
Denny Harjehausen
Lebanon, OR
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denton Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
Thanks, Eustace! I have wondered since I returned to carb. power why there
wasn't an electrically heated system. There seems to be a lot of off field
landings/crashes blamed on carb. ice. If it isn't caught in time as we all
know there is no heat to clear the passage. Though it does seem like an
electric heated system would be another problem to add to the already
complex and costly safety sytems of airplanes. And it seems to be more
likely in some aircraft then others.
A friend of mine had it happened to him in a Tomahawk a couple years ago
here in Oregon. He said it happened very suddenly with no warning. The
engine started to lose RPM, he pulled the carb heat and it quit. They were
low and had little choice in landing fields. He and his wife did walked
away with scatches and bruises, but the plane was junk. I have heard of a
couple of others in the last couple years, locally.
I don't have the prop time you have, Eustace, but I had it happen one time
in my prop time, in a Luscombe, in the '50, low over Long Beach, Calif. It
lost a lot of power suddenly, I pulled the Carb heat, it got worst, I was
looking for some soft place in the city to land and then it roared back to
life. It left me with nightmares for awhile, plus a real interest in the
subject.
Have a great Day!
Denny Harjehausen
Lebanon, OR
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Adjustable Rudder Pedals - 8A |
Yes Rick, I believe the F-802G is only on the taildragger. I used the
ground adjustable pedals and simply placed a spacer at the aft end.
Bill Pagan
N565BW still waitin on the FAA
"The original RV-8A builders page on the web"
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>Anyone building an 8A with ground adjustable rudder pedals . . . the plans
>show a left and right "F-802G" (drawing OP-3). These are also shown on
>Drawing 24. However, on my QB kit these are not there . . . and it looks
>like these may have a function for the tail dragger version but not the tri.
>Has anyone run up against this? The aft end of F-8108 (L & R) are bent to
>provide clearance for both of these--but my 8A QB doesn't have them. This
>may be a question for Van's.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Rick Jory, Highlands Ranch, Co
>RV8A QB . . . fuselage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oil cooler air for cabin heat |
| From: | "William R. Davis Jr" <rvpilot(at)juno.com> |
Listers,
Have followed with interest the thread about using oil cooler exit air
for cabin heat. In spite of what the nay-sayers out there are saying, it
will work---up to a point. It depends on what climate you are operating
in. I have been using this system in my RV-4 for several years with
success. If I lived in Minnesota I wouldn't consider it. Sure, I live
in SW Florida but I make a lot of trips to NJ and New England and find
that the system is more than adequate unless you are flying under a cloud
deck (no solar heating) and the temp. is 20 deg. F. or less.
Advantages are: Freedom from worry about CO poisoning
"softer" more pleasant heat, not scorching as exhaust
heat is
Disadvantages are: less heat output
More complicated to build, you have
to put a butterfly valve on the output side of the oil cooler to
force the exit air into the cabin
heat box. this disadvantage is at least partially offset by the fact that
the butterfly valve can be used to
regulate the oil temp. to some degree.
If using this system, it would be important to seal up all the air leaks
into the cabin as much as possible, this would be important if using a
normal system too.
It may not be for everybody, but it works for me. It's going in my new
RV-8
Regards, Bill RV-4 N66WD
RV-8 Cowling Stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | meketa <acgm(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 seat floor questions |
> Pardon my "dumminess" but do the F829 footwell flanges and flooring go > under
or on top of the F-830 and F-831 seat floors. I can't tell from > DWG 29 or
the video. If I want to make the floors removable (I read > >the archives on this),
should I use #8 nutplates or are #6 beefy >enough?
> Thanks,
> Phil Smith, 80691
On the plans, the F829 front floor and the foot wells are screwed down
and the F830 and 831 rear floors are pop riveted down. This would
require that that the footwells would go on top of the rear floor.
The plans call for #8 screws to be used.
I had initially planned on making the rear floors removable with #6
screws. After installing the nutplates for the front I changed my mind.
The nutplates against the outside skin are a pain to dimple and buck
the rivets. The rear has even less room to work. This is on the quick
build with the outside skins installed. Do the front nutplates before
you commit on the rear floor nutplates.
There are several nutplates on the front floor that call for K1000-8
double leg nutplates which are in very tight corners. In these areas
I installed MS21051-L08 single leg nutplates. Only two came with the
kit. I also started using Oops rivets from Avery to hold down the
nutplates. This makes countersinking in tight areas much easier.
Stripping or breaking the #6 and #8 screws is not a problem if you
run a tap thru all floor nutplates before installing them. This cleans
out the locking crimp. The screws can then be installed by hand. I will
install plastic washers under the screws for paint protection and to
act as lock washers.
George Meketa
RV-8Q fuselage
P.S.: tricycles are for babies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder Leading Edge |
Just got done rolling the leading edge of the rudder. One side turned
out beautifully, the other has a slight crease in the skin at the edge
of the spar flange, as cautioned about in the manual. Anybody had any
success getting this crease out, if so how? Or, should I not be too
concerned about it. This crease is not much, can be felt by hand, but
not visible unless you look closely under good light.
Jeff Point
jpoint(at)execpc.com
-6 rudder
Milwaukee, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Adjustable Rudder Pedals - 8A |
Rick--
I ran into this just the other night. I exchanged my in-flight adjustable
rudder assembly for the ground-adjustable version, and began the installation.
I noticed that Moe Colontonio's web pics showed the F-8108 overlapping the lower
firewall angle and the F-802G. Hmmm...mine didn't have any bends in them. I
looked at the plans and saw that the angles are supposed to butt up against the
firewall angle, and don't even show the F-802G at all! So, I called Van's and
was told to just cut them off to fit between the firewall angle and the F-802G.
THEN...I called Van's and talked with Ken Krueger, who designed the system about
another question. He finally figured out the problem--THEY HAD MAILED ME THE
WRONG KIT! I was installing the kit for the -8A, and I have an -8. He said
he'd mail me the right kit parts and plans, and that should solve the problem.
So, I guess I got your kit and you got mine! The -8A mounting brackets butt
against the lower firewall angle and don't overlap anything. I'd suggest a call
to Van's. Talk to Ken Krueger.
--Don McNamara
N8RV
Rick Jory wrote:
> Anyone building an 8A with ground adjustable rudder pedals . . . the plans
> show a left and right "F-802G" (drawing OP-3). These are also shown on
> Drawing 24. However, on my QB kit these are not there . . . and it looks
> like these may have a function for the tail dragger version but not the tri.
> Has anyone run up against this? The aft end of F-8108 (L & R) are bent to
> provide clearance for both of these--but my 8A QB doesn't have them. This
> may be a question for Van's.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe3(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 HS Stab Rivet Spacing/Alignment |
http://www.tabshred.com/moe/HS.htm
This is a common problem. Vans advice to me was to just put a rivet in and
don't worry. Other builders have riveted new flanges on, while others just
cut the flange away and fill the skin hole with a rivet. Hit the above link
for a picture.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe3(at)home.com
www.tabshred.com/moe
HI Listers,
I'm having a little problem with my RV-8 HS stabilizer skeleton and am
wondering if anyone else has come across the same problem. When laying the
skins over the skeleton, the intersection of the HS404 (center tip rib),
HS405 (center aft rib), HS602 (HSFWD spar channel) and HS814 (reinforcing
angle at FWD spar center), the first rivet FWD of the FWD spar on the tip
rib does not have sufficient material in the rib for proper edge distance
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Leading Edge |
Jeff: I just went through the rudder last week, the crease you are talking
about is nothing to worry about. When it is painted you want even notice
it. My question is the rudder bottom fairing on my RV-6A was too long and
hit on the front edge at the tie down weldement. It seemed to be about 3/4"
too long. It might clear on a RV-6 though, Have you tried yours yet?
What I did was to cut about a one half inch off and reglassed the leading
edge.
Harvey Sigmon RV-6AQB
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)execpc.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 1999 7:38 PM
Subject: RV-List: Rudder Leading Edge
>
> Just got done rolling the leading edge of the rudder. One side turned
> out beautifully, the other has a slight crease in the skin at the edge
> of the spar flange, as cautioned about in the manual. Anybody had any
> success getting this crease out, if so how? Or, should I not be too
> concerned about it. This crease is not much, can be felt by hand, but
> not visible unless you look closely under good light.
>
> Jeff Point
> jpoint(at)execpc.com
> -6 rudder
> Milwaukee, WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A O-360 FAB |
Gary, I have the A/P injection on a 360, and there is about .25" clearance
between the steel of the gear leg and the FAB. I did have to cut a notch
in the fiberglass fairing, however.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
>
> What have others done to increase the clearance
> between the Filtered Air Box and the training wheel
> gear leg? :-) I have been told that the GBI video
> shows cutting the filter to allow more clearance at
> the carb.
>
> Has anyone cut a piece of the FAB fiberglass off and
> then created a slanted replacement piece of fiberglass
> to cover it?
>
>
> ====
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> So. CA, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net> |
Does anyone have any secrets on installing the vertical stab tips?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Von Dane's" <vondanes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fiberglass tips |
Mark...
I just drilled and clecoed the fiberglass tip onto the VS today... I
had to sand the tip down as it was too long, then I used cleco side
grip clamps to hold it on one end, then drilled and clecoed as I
went... I bought some Styrofoam I plan to use to fill the open end,
if it epoxies ok...
I will post some pictures to my web site tomorrow morning...
Bill Von Dane, Colorado
RV-8A N912V (res), waiting for wing kit
http://vondane.tripod.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 1999 6:30 PM
Subject: RV-List: fiberglass tips
Does anyone have any secrets on installing the vertical stab tips?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)earthlink.net> |
Unless you have an optical sensor carb ice detector I doubt that you would
have know if you had minor carb icing.
Does anybody else have experience with either an optical carb ice detector
like the ARP ice detector or a carburator temperature probe? I've often
wondered which one is better.
Mark Schrimmer
Irvine, CA
RV9A tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Von Dane's" <vondanes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Mounting Rudder to VS... |
I have read some post lately about attaching the rudder to the VS...
On the plans, it calls for 3/16 x 3/8 rod end bearings in 2 places,
but there are 3 platenuts... I have 6ea. 3/16 x 3/8 rod end bearings,
and 1 larger one... Can someone help me out here? Is the larger one
the wrong size? If not, where does it go?
Also, I found that I have to screw the bottom rod end bearing in all
the way, and the top on to 7/8" out in order for the counter balance
arm to clear the VS. What is the minimum clearance here?
Thanks in advance...
Bill Von Dane, Colorado
RV-8A N912V (res), waiting for wing kit
http://vondane.tripod.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Von Dane's" <vondanes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fiberglass tips |
Mark...
I just drilled and clecoed the fiberglass tip onto the VS today... I
had to sand the tip down as it was too long, then I used cleco side
grip clamps to hold it on one end, then drilled and clecoed as I
went... I bought some Styrofoam I plan to use to fill the open end,
if it epoxies ok...
I will post some pictures to my web site tomorrow morning...
Bill Von Dane, Colorado
RV-8A N912V (res), waiting for wing kit
http://vondane.tripod.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 1999 6:30 PM
Subject: RV-List: fiberglass tips
Does anyone have any secrets on installing the vertical stab tips?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com> |
| Subject: | Navaid install etc. |
RV-8ers,
Help! I'm at the point of installing all the stuff that goes under the pilot
butt... Navaid servo, com & xpndr antennas, wing wiring multiconnectors
through the side, etc. The plan for fitting all of this stuff in must
clearly be a coordinated one considering how they all fit together. Of
course future accessibility must be kept in mind with the front part of the
floor removeable, but the rear portions pop-riveted down. So, I have the
following questions for all you RV-8 guys ahead of me...
1. Does anyone have any photos of how they mounted the Navaid servo and
connected it to the W807?
2. Have you put doublers above your antennas, and if so what size?
3. Where did you penetrate the main spar for the antenna leads (and other
electrical stuff)?
4. Is there such a thing as a right angle BNC connector for the two antennas
so as to possibly fit below the Navaid servo?
Any experience, and especially photos, would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, just took the wings back off
www.pacifier.com/~randyl
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Adjustable Rudder Pedals - 8A |
To all of you who have experience with both the in-flight and ground
adjustable pedals..
Which goes further forward, the ground or the in-flight adjustable
pedals ??
I need all the space I can get....
Thanks
Gert
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting Rudder to VS... |
Bill
If I remember correctly, the big one goes at the bottom of the rudder.
Did you pre-install the rudder with the dim's given in the drawing when
you rivited the top rib on for the counterweight on the rudder ??
When I rivited the rudder, I temporaraly installed it to get the spacing
right on top. even so, it seems that one or more of the rod-ends are not
in very far.
Wonder if I can buy some with more threads ??
Gert
The Von Dane's wrote:
>
>
> I have read some post lately about attaching the rudder to the VS...
> On the plans, it calls for 3/16 x 3/8 rod end bearings in 2 places,
> but there are 3 platenuts... I have 6ea. 3/16 x 3/8 rod end bearings,
> and 1 larger one... Can someone help me out here? Is the larger one
> the wrong size? If not, where does it go?
>
> Also, I found that I have to screw the bottom rod end bearing in all
> the way, and the top on to 7/8" out in order for the counter balance
> arm to clear the VS. What is the minimum clearance here?
>
> Thanks in advance...
>
> Bill Von Dane, Colorado
> RV-8A N912V (res), waiting for wing kit
> http://vondane.tripod.com
>
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PR" <perryrhoads(at)ctnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV3-List: Re: RV3-List Digest: 12/04/99 |
What calendar that has an RV-3?
Perry Rhoads
RV-3 tail kit
Pitts SIS N88PR sold
-----Original Message-----
From: DFCPAC(at)aol.com <DFCPAC(at)aol.com>
Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 6:15 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: RV3-List: Re: RV3-List Digest: 12/04/99
>
>hi bob,bob, and rob,
>good to here from all of you. how have you been rob? i guessed the rv3
>newsletter was a little hard to tackle. i agree with all of you, we should
>use the rv3 list. the regular rv list is ok but mostly talk about 6's and
>eights. i'm located on long island in new york. i did not build my rv3a i
>purchased it from randy compton in fl. but the way he bought a pitts s1 and
>is very unhappy with it. he wanted to buy his rv back. i've had it for
about
>7 months and it's one heck of a machine. i love it. i really flys great.
i've
>just started doing basic aerobatics with it. you gotta see this thing roll.
>don't even need rudders plant your feet on the floor pitch up a little and
>bang the stick over. i have an 0-320 lyc. and i can cruise at 165 knots at
>2400 rpm at 7 gallons an hour. climb rate is over 2000 fpm. and the thing
is
>like a pussy cat to fly. rob, i took a look at installing the sliding
canopy
>i think to leave well enough alone. anyway i have an antenna right behind
the
>canopy that i would have to move. i'm just gonna leave it like it is. so
>how's the restoration going? i really like to see this list work out it's
>always nice to chat with others that have the same plane.
>
>take care
>dan carley
>rv3a-148cw
>
>i'll inform chuck about this list. did you get the new calender yet.
chuck's
>rv3 is the first one listed
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Horiz Stab gap question |
In a message dated 12/5/99 8:39:09 AM Pacific Standard Time, Mkraus01(at)aol.com
writes:
<< how big of a gap should I leave between the horizontal
stabilizer and the outboard portion of the counterbalance rib?? >>
Some may disagree, but I like to use the shank of an AN-3 bolt as the arbiter
of sufficient control surface clearances.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Von Dane's" <vondanes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting Rudder to VS... |
Unfortunately I screwed up and just slapped the rudder skeleton on,
secured the counter weight arm, and went to town... It clears the VS,
but is there a minimum clearance? Is there any reason to believe the
clearance will change in flight?
Bill Von Dane, Colorado
RV-8A N912V (res), waiting for wing kit
http://vondane.tripod.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gert" <gert(at)execpc.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 1999 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Mounting Rudder to VS...
Bill
If I remember correctly, the big one goes at the bottom of the rudder.
Did you pre-install the rudder with the dim's given in the drawing
when
you rivited the top rib on for the counterweight on the rudder ??
When I rivited the rudder, I temporaraly installed it to get the
spacing
right on top. even so, it seems that one or more of the rod-ends are
not
in very far.
Wonder if I can buy some with more threads ??
Gert
The Von Dane's wrote:
>
>
> I have read some post lately about attaching the rudder to the VS...
> On the plans, it calls for 3/16 x 3/8 rod end bearings in 2 places,
> but there are 3 platenuts... I have 6ea. 3/16 x 3/8 rod end
bearings,
> and 1 larger one... Can someone help me out here? Is the larger
one
> the wrong size? If not, where does it go?
>
> Also, I found that I have to screw the bottom rod end bearing in all
> the way, and the top on to 7/8" out in order for the counter balance
> arm to clear the VS. What is the minimum clearance here?
>
> Thanks in advance...
>
> Bill Von Dane, Colorado
> RV-8A N912V (res), waiting for wing kit
> http://vondane.tripod.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pat_hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com> |
Randall:
Happens to me all the time with the conditions you stated. At idle (low
manifold pressure) you're getting a pretty good temp drop in the carb, this
with a little moist air, and you get the ice. Engine starts to run real
rough some times when taxiing out, it will go away after using carb heat.
Regards,
Pat Hatch
RV-4 N17PH @ INT
RV-6 Tanks
----- Original Message -----
From: Randall Henderson <randallh(at)home.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 1999 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Carb Ice
>
> I believe I experienced carb ice yesterday morning in my RV-6. Not certain
> as my carb temp probe isn't hooked up yet. But on run-up, when I pulled
the
> carb heat, the tach went down about 100 RPM, then slowly came back up
about
> 50 RPM. OAT was 323 degrees with a 0 degree
> temp/due point spread.
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~50 hrs)
> Portland, OR
> http://www.edt.com/homewing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 seat floor questions |
meketa wrote:
> Stripping or breaking the #6 and #8 screws is not a problem if you
> run a tap thru all floor nutplates before installing them. This cleans
> out the locking crimp. The screws can then be installed by hand. I will
> install plastic washers under the screws for paint protection and to
> act as lock washers.
Get some BoeLube (a dry lubricate available at Cleaveland Tools among
other places) and apply it to the screws the first time you insert them
into the platenuts. You will be amazed how easy the screws thread in and
you won't compromise the locking ability of the platenuts.
Sam Buchanan
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jason baker <jjbaker(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 HS 404 Rib Question |
Ed,
Just completed the task you are speaking about...used AN rivets and bucked them
myself. It was hard, as I have large forearms (call me Ahnold) but now it looks
great. Get the Orndorf video...Its done for an RV6, but I have a -4 and it
shows the rivet order. If you really want to know now...go get drawing 3a and
then procede to read.
To summarize, Cleco one side completely (leave out 404, but leave the other side
open to allow access to buck. Start at the HS407/408 "T" and put in first
rivet, then left one rivet/right one rivet/up one rivet/down one rivet... until
all you can do is go left and right. Rivet rear spar from HS403 out, then
finish up with 406 and 405. Leave 404 aside right now.
For the other side, Cleco Skin to HS 402 and all holes forward of HS402. When
I
mean forward, I mean towards the leading edge. When we are done, we are going
to want to rivet while "peeling" back the trailing edge of the skin, but we want
a cleco in EVERY hole of the forward spar and all tip ribs. No Clecos aft of
the forward spar. Start at the "T" again, but go up one/left one/right one/up
one (This is why you leave out 404, so you can reach in there to buck...and
thank god there's only about 7 rivets each side, cause its a bitch at the
narrowest portion of the Leading Edge. Note not to put in clecoes aft of the
leading edge spar, because you want to lift this enuf to get a bucking bar in
there. I'm repeating myself-editors note. Once you get the Forward Spar
Clecoed, start on HS 408 (where it meets the forward Spar). Leave a hole
unclecoed (this is where your first rivet will be) and insert two to four
Clecoes below hole. This will leave you enough "bend room" to lift up the skin
and buck. Every time you remove a cleco to expose the next target rivet hole,
put it in the next hole down so that you always have at least two clecoes below
your hole. You will ultimately end up "running" into the rear spar, at which
point you will cleco to the rear spar and really reach in to buck the last two
rivets on HS 408.
Great Tip: I took one of those nice office chairs which rolls. Adjusted the
seat back so I recline and bucked the rivets from a recline under the jig post.
It was like laying on a creaper and changing my oil. Very comfortable.
Insert HS 404 and rivet it in...stand back and look at your accomplishment.
Whew....
Jason Baker
RV-4
"Damn I wish they made the Emp predrilled."
San Ramon, CA
P.S. I actually made about $250 dollars worth of mistakes on my emp, including
a figure 8 on my skin and HS 407. Every time I did, I bought new parts. Its
hard, but once you finish the HS, you are a veteran shop worker. I have made no
errors and am flying along the rest of the kit now.
If you are dimpling, you will probably save yourself alot of time if you just
concede a countersink for the most leading edge rivet on HS404/407/406 as I just
couldn't dimple the skin without opening it too much.
Ed Funk wrote:
>
> To rivet or to pop rivet question ? I'm getting ready to assemble the HS
> skeleton, and one question Van leaves up to the builder is when to rivet the
> 404 rib to the front spar. If one uses solid rivets early they are then
> forced to use pop rivets to fasten the skin to the middle (HS-407) ribs. If
> one attaches the 404 rib to the front spar later, access is left for solid
> riveting in the 407 area thus substituting solid rivets for pop rivets in
> the assembly process.
>
> My question as a new builder is "how difficult is it to reach into this area
> and flush rivet the skin the the 407 rib and then rivet the 404 rib in place
> ?"
>
> My first choice is to use the minimum number of pop rivets; however, if this
> means reaching into a blind area and taking an unreasonable risk toward
> denting skins, etc. I'll swallow and gladly use pop rivets.
>
> To pop rivet or not to pop rivet..... that is the question.
>
> Ed Funk
> Corning, NY
> RV-4 Tail
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ground Adjustable Rudder Pedals - 8A |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
> To all of you who have experience with both the in-flight and ground
> adjustable pedals..
>
> Which goes further forward, the ground or the in-flight adjustable
> pedals ??
> I need all the space I can get....
>
-
The limiting factor is at what point the rudder peddle hits the firewall
at full deflection with the brake applied.
Either one will give the most leg room possible.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Bristol" <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: rear spar fit on qb6 |
Gar, Don't bend anything! If the wing is not lined up perfectly, the rear
spar will not fit. If you slide the front spar in or out a little you'll
find that the alignment on the rear spar will change. I've had my wings on
and off many times and have found this to be a challenge almost every time.
Dave. southern CA, paint and interior.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gar & Jan Pessel <pessel(at)ptialaska.net>
Date: Saturday, December 04, 1999 5:24 PM
Subject: RV-List: rear spar fit on qb6
>
>I finally reached the point where it was time to mate the wings to the
>fuselage. We tried sliding the left wing into place and find that the tab
>off the rear spar will not fit into the slot between the tabs on the
>fuselage. It is too far back by over 1/8th of an inch. I do not have the
>faintest idea how to bend those two tabs or if I should be bending on the
>tab on the wing. Bending anything labeled as part of a spar , even just a
>rear spar, is not something that sounds like a particularly good idea.
>Anybody else ever encountered this problem? Gar Pessel, Fairbanks, AK
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Orr <morr(at)vt.edu> |
| Subject: | HELP! Opinions NEEDED! |
Hello,
I've been looking at the RV's at several other homebuilts for several
years and have finally figured out that I really like the RV-4 as it's a bit
lighter then the RV-8 (on paper). Do they really weigh less then the -8
when equipped the same (numbers PLEASE)?
The RV-4 seems like a better aerobatic airplane as I couldn't find a
single one that broke in flight and I looked through each RV-4 accident
since 1983.
Is the -8 really that much easier to build then the -4? If I could
build an Rv-4 in about the same time as an RV-8 I think the -4 would be the
better airplane. I've seen an RV-8 tail kit and it seemed nice and I've
also seen a Harmon Rocket that's in the final stages. Are there less bugs
or headaches in the RV-8 kit?
Which is the better way to go? I've been agonizing over this with a
friend whose workshop I'll use and who will most likely be a partner
building for the last few months. We've worked together on projects similar
but not to quite this scale before or we'll each build our own if the kit
seems doable.
I want to use the aircraft for sport aerobatics with the occasional
cross-country.
What's the "better" airplane to fly, to build?
If you say I should get a ride in each tell me what airport to meet you
at on the east coast (near VA). ;-)
Thanks,
Matt Orr
I've looked through the archives and found ~2700 messages on primer.
And ~270 comparing RV-4 to RV-8 and didn't find what I was looking for
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | HELP! Opinions NEEDED!- Go 4 |
I know that I will be flamed unending but I too still think the RV4 is the
perfect sport aircraft. I liked it when it first came upon the scene and I
like it no less now. This is not to take away from the 8 or the 6 but the 4
is in my opinion the perfect sporting aircraft. Definitely lighter, possibly
stronger, with on center seating, racy canopy and a superb compromise of
sporting agility with cross country capability. Yes, it has some
negatives---Bubbas on the Van's Bubba Scale beyond 7+ may find the rather
roomy accommodations slightly lacking compared to the 8 but not really much
less than the 6 as you do not have to share elbow room and then there is the
unending legend of the tail heavy RV4. Yes, it is true that I at 180 lbs
probably would not want to shove a 240 pounder into the back seat and go
zoomering about but fortunately for me all my friends are almost normal in
size and my dear wife barely makes 120 dripping wet dressed. I am also of the
opinion and it is just an opinion that aerobatics in any RV should be kept to
a solo proposition anyway. Yep, I still like the 4 and not looking to build
the RV 12 A. JR, RV4 slowly progressing at less than a snails pace
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <rv8abuild(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Adjustable Rudder Pedals - 8A |
I somehow ended up with both types of rudder pedals in my 8A QB kit, and I
chosed the "in-flight" adjustable pedals simply because it was a much
simpler, easier installation. The platenuts are already installed for the
quick adjustable ones to be installed - no holes to drill in the floor, no
rivets to drill out, no pop rivets to install - just bolt them in. The
quick adjustable ones are a little heavier, but if I were trying to decide
which to order, I would still go with the "in-flight" adjustable pedals.
Jerry Carter
8A fuse, installing top skin
>
> Anyone building an 8A with ground adjustable rudder pedals . . . the plans
> show a left and right "F-802G" (drawing OP-3). These are also shown on
> Drawing 24. However, on my QB kit these are not there . . . and it looks
> like these may have a function for the tail dragger version but not the
tri.
> Has anyone run up against this?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <rv8abuild(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Smart-aleck comment about "tricycles" |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net |
| Subject: | Re: HELP! Opinions NEEDED! |
Matt,
I'm at 2W6 in Maryland, about 40nmi or so south of BWI. There are two -4's
and two -6's on the field. Call me at 301-757-0286 and I'll try to hook you
up with the -4's.
I'd be careful if I were you. You might get hooked on both the -4 and the
-6 at the same time! I have a -6 but still like the look of the -4's.
Those bulges on the sides of the cowl are sexy. I agonized over the same
decision and have not regret having a -6. The decision was easy for me. My
wife refused to look at the back of my head. How about having one of each?
Now that's a sporty though.
A. Vu
N985VU
>
>Hello,
>
> I've been looking at the RV's at several other homebuilts for several
>years and have finally figured out that I really like the RV-4 as it's a bit
>lighter then the RV-8 (on paper). Do they really weigh less then the -8
>when equipped the same (numbers PLEASE)?
>
> The RV-4 seems like a better aerobatic airplane as I couldn't find a
>single one that broke in flight and I looked through each RV-4 accident
>since 1983.
>
> Is the -8 really that much easier to build then the -4? If I could
>build an Rv-4 in about the same time as an RV-8 I think the -4 would be the
>better airplane. I've seen an RV-8 tail kit and it seemed nice and I've
>also seen a Harmon Rocket that's in the final stages. Are there less bugs
>or headaches in the RV-8 kit?
>
> Which is the better way to go? I've been agonizing over this with a
>friend whose workshop I'll use and who will most likely be a partner
>building for the last few months. We've worked together on projects similar
>but not to quite this scale before or we'll each build our own if the kit
>seems doable.
>
> I want to use the aircraft for sport aerobatics with the occasional
>cross-country.
>
> What's the "better" airplane to fly, to build?
>
> If you say I should get a ride in each tell me what airport to meet you
>at on the east coast (near VA). ;-)
>
>Thanks,
>Matt Orr
>
>I've looked through the archives and found ~2700 messages on primer.
>And ~270 comparing RV-4 to RV-8 and didn't find what I was looking for
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
(Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id
for" ;
Mon,
06 Dec 1999 08:04:02.-0500(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: steel braided lines |
"Brian Denk" on 12/05/99 02:53:09 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: steel braided lines
Not intended as a flame, but I've changed out many an old steel braided line out
of our Phantoms. These old girls all had over 5000 carrier cycles, if something
is going to waste a line, getting aboard the boat is it. The trick is the line
is simply imobilized. It cant destroy its self if it cant move.
Later I worked for a company that made the fuel lines for the C-17 (steel
braided), they had a very long life to them. We also made the inflation lines
for the emergency slides in airliners (much like an aeroquip). They changed
those every few years and they're only used once. Every type of hose we made was
burst tested at least once, in fact we did everything we could to destroy them.
There is a world of difference between steel braided and cloth braided lines. I
don't know how many times I have read stories about someone dead sticking their
newly finished plane into a cornfield because the the $2.00 line he pounded out
on his work bench to feed his $20,000 engine failed.
I'll get off my soapbox now, be sure I will only install steel braided lines in
my bird.
Eric Henson
Skinning the fuse
>
>
>Stay away from steel braided hoses unless you intend to change them every
>year. Why you ask? When that pretty steel braid breaks down a little you
>have several strands of steel poking in the rubber beneath it.
>
>Bill
Not only is this an issue, but the braid will saw it's way through anything
it rubs on with engine vibration providing the motivation. So, those that do
have them, make sure they will not rub on the engine mount, wires, primer
lines, control cables, etc. Like anything, they do a fine job as long as
they aren't neglected.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
two braided hoses in my engine compartment.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HELP! Opinions NEEDED! |
>
>Hello,
>
> I've been looking at the RV's at several other homebuilts for several
>years and have finally figured out that I really like the RV-4 as it's a
bit
>lighter then the RV-8 (on paper). Do they really weigh less then the -8
>when equipped the same (numbers PLEASE)?
>
clip
>
> Which is the better way to go? I've been agonizing over this with a
>friend whose workshop I'll use and who will most likely be a partner
>building for the last few months. We've worked together on projects
similar
>but not to quite this scale before or we'll each build our own if the kit
>seems doable.
>
Matt,
You sound frustrated that no one will tell you which airplane is better.
This is a good reason wise people will avoid making this kind of statement.
There is really no "best" among the RV designs. There is a lot of choice
which allows one to decide based on their individual priorities.
Unfortunately some people are offended when others don't make the same
choice they did.
Between the 4 and the 8 there are appearance differences that are subjective
(I think the 4 is pretty). The 4 is lighter and tighter. The 8 is larger
and more flexible in regard to loading and has more fuel capacity. This
combination gives better cross-country capability. The 8 is also going to
be easier to build due to advances in kit refinement over the years.
You make the choice.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <fesenbek(at)marykay.com> |
| Subject: | Pitot-Static Woes |
>You could go this way or you could just get one of those new F1 Rocket
>kits. Mine arrives in June and I can't wait to blow the doors off the
>first RV-8 I see.;~)
>Yeeeee HAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaa............
>
>scot
I know what you mean. I saw a Rocket take off in 100' yesterday from
Addison. That was the shortest takeoff I had seen of a Rocket thus far. It
was being towed by an RV-6A though....
Gary Fesenbek
RV6A
Dallas, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HELP! Opinions NEEDED! |
Hello Matt,
I can't give you any advice on which plane is a better flyer, but I'm
building an RV-4 and I'll give you my experiences with the 4 over the past
year.
I'm building on a lower budget than most (I think) and have done
everything I could to keep the cost down. One of the big differences
between the 8 and 4 is the cost to build. The 8 costs more to purchase and
cost more (typically) to power. I think most 8 builders are going with
180-200hp while most 4's are happy with 150hp. The extra cost for the 8
could be as much as $10K by the time your done.
I baught an old RV-4 kit used with no work done to it and purchased a new
set of plans from Vans to get all the latest changes to the drawings, this
saved me quite a few dollars in the long run but did cost me some extra
time.
I haven't seen the new 8 kits to see how much is done on them, I can say
that my 4 kit was probably a good "bad example" of what you won't get if you
buy new. I spent at least 40-60 hours of build time just in cleaning, the
older kit had etch from the packing paper on the surface of all the wing
skins - it took lots of elbow grease to get it off. As far as the rest of
the building goes there really isn't any task I considered to be too
difficult. They do a good job at the factory getting everything sheared and
bent close enough to work with, the rest of the work becomes routine after
you get the hang of it on the tail kit. I don't know if the construction
manual is any better for the 8 than the 4 but it leaves alot to be desired,
I've opted in many cases to set it aside and just use the drawings since the
manual is outright wrong in many cases.
The build time is dependant on the builder...completely!. I've seen all
types of builders and quickbuild or not if you want to get the plane done
you have to work...and work steady. On a project this big if you don't work
efficiently you will end up spending much more time than is required to
actually build the plane. I have just over 700 hrs in the project so far- I
started in January of 1999 and have a steady routine of work that I try to
follow. My fuse is out of the jig and I'm getting ready to attach the
Engine mount and get the thing on gear, my final goal is to have a flying
plane this summer - less than 2 years of build time. I've seen guys work
everynight for 6 years and not finish the project - set a goal each time you
work and work toward that goal.
Don't labor over little things like how much is done on the kit when you
start, build the airplane you want to buy and fly, you'll find the time to
build it.
Pat Perry
Dallas, PA
RV-4 fuse almost done
Engine being rebuilt
I need a prop!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Adjustable Rudder Pedals - 8A |
This has to be the problem . . . my "8108's" have bends on both ends as if
the 8A had an 802G. I'll call Van's. Thanks.
-----Original Message-----
From: Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net>
Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Ground Adjustable Rudder Pedals - 8A
>
>Rick--
>
>I ran into this just the other night. I exchanged my in-flight adjustable
>rudder assembly for the ground-adjustable version, and began the
installation.
>I noticed that Moe Colontonio's web pics showed the F-8108 overlapping the
lower
>firewall angle and the F-802G. Hmmm...mine didn't have any bends in them.
I
>looked at the plans and saw that the angles are supposed to butt up against
the
>firewall angle, and don't even show the F-802G at all! So, I called Van's
and
>was told to just cut them off to fit between the firewall angle and the
F-802G.
>
>THEN...I called Van's and talked with Ken Krueger, who designed the system
about
>another question. He finally figured out the problem--THEY HAD MAILED ME
THE
>WRONG KIT! I was installing the kit for the -8A, and I have an -8. He
said
>he'd mail me the right kit parts and plans, and that should solve the
problem.
>
>So, I guess I got your kit and you got mine! The -8A mounting brackets
butt
>against the lower firewall angle and don't overlap anything. I'd suggest a
call
>to Van's. Talk to Ken Krueger.
>
>--Don McNamara
> N8RV
>
>Rick Jory wrote:
>
>> Anyone building an 8A with ground adjustable rudder pedals . . . the
plans
>> show a left and right "F-802G" (drawing OP-3). These are also shown on
>> Drawing 24. However, on my QB kit these are not there . . . and it looks
>> like these may have a function for the tail dragger version but not the
tri.
>> Has anyone run up against this? The aft end of F-8108 (L & R) are bent
to
>> provide clearance for both of these--but my 8A QB doesn't have them.
This
>> may be a question for Van's.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charlie Kearns" <kearns(at)gte.net> |
I got a few responses over the weekend but my kit is still for sale. I
have pictures of the project that I can email or mail to anyone interested.
Once again I have the tail and wings 100% complete and the fuselage kit is
just started. All parts are primed inside with Dupont Variprime. The tail
and wings have been inspected and signed off by George Orndorff.
Please respond off list, the price is negotiable!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <fesenbek(at)marykay.com> |
>> Our video does not show cutting the Filtered Air Box. Yes, this was a
>>problem with the old gear legs that you fiberglassed the wood fairing on.
>>With the new gear and the fiberglass fairing, this should not be a problem
>>George Orndorff
I have a 6A with the new nosegear and an O-360 FAB. I did have to notch the
FAB in the back to clear the nose gear. I did not have to cut the filter.
The filter clears this cutout (barely). The cutout matches the slant of the
nosegear and gives about 1/4" clearance to the nosegear.
Gary Fesenbek
RV6A
Dallas, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 N94BD weigh-in |
Any wind will create lift. How much? Depends on AOA and airspeed of
course.
If you get enough lift, the plane flies.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
Eustace,
Why would you use alt. air on the ground in dusty conditions to give
your filter a break? Aren't these the conditions that the filter is
installed for? How about giving the engine a break and filtering out
the dust?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: steel braided lines |
In a message dated 12/05/1999, 1:14:05 PM, rv-list(at)matronics.com writes:
What?
<>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Baker" <gtbaker(at)bright.net> |
Posting this for a friend who is not on the list. Please contact him
directly. Thanks.
Gary Baker
RV-6 (Working on wings)
N4GB (Reserved)
Medina, OH
For Sale:
1996 RV-3A. O-320, wing mods completed, wing tanks, sliding canopy, Garmin
250 GPS/Com, King KT-76A transponder, mode C, two axis electric trim,
strobes, nav lights, fuel mixture indicator, day/night VFR. Red, white,
blue paint. A high performance eye-catcher. $32,500. Don @ 817 560 0604.
TX.
Don H Blessing
11717 Pine Creek Ct
Aledo, TX 76008
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)arlington.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Skyforce Skymap II |
Rich, I am flying the Skymap II and love it...but wish I had the color
version. The Skymap II couples beautifully with the NavAid through the
Smart Coupler which can be purchased with the NavAid. We used the panel
mount...you still must fab a box to contain the panel mount provision.
I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have directly.
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX
-6A flying through 130 hours
Zeidman, Richard B wrote:
>
>
> Have any listers tried the Skymap II in their RV's. I really like the panel
> mount feature with the large map, but would like to hear some comments from
> anyone who has actual experience with it. I am also planning to couple it to
> a Nav-Aid autopilot.
>
> Rich Zeidman
> Ridley Park, Pa
> RV6A finish kit
> working on canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Baker" <gtbaker(at)bright.net> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Kit for Sale |
I was asked to put this on the list for a friend. Please contact him
directly off-list. Thanks.
Gary Baker
RV-6 (Working on wings)
N4GB (Reserved)
Medina, OH
FOR SALE-EMPENNAGE AND WING KIT FOR AN RV-4
Wing kit is still in the crate as it came from Van's Aircraft
Empennage kit is partially completed
Vertical and horizontal stabilizers finished
Rudder and elevator have not been started
The kit includes the following extras:
Clecoes and cleco pliers
All the jigs to complete the empennage and wings
Delivery within 300 miles of Denver, Colorado
(outside that area may be negotiated)
Dimple and riveting tool
Additional tools may be negotiated
All completed work has been supervised by an A & P mechanic
ASKING $4200
Van's current price for these two kits is $5050 and this does not include
shipping, crating, or any tools and jigs. This additional cost would add
about $500 to the new kit price. You would also have to spend about 200
hours working to complete the pieces I have already finished.
Contact Rick or Kassie at (303) 680-8428 OR E-mail us at: krabkove(at)mstg.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)arlington.net> |
| Subject: | Air Filter--clean or replace |
I am approaching my first annual condition inspection. Should the air
filter be replaced or cleaned?
Also, what is a good criteria to determine when to replace tires? I
rotated my main tires at 134 landings since they were worn on one
side...they still look pretty good. Is there a good rule as to when to
discard?
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX
-6A flying through 130 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com> |
"A20driver" , "Bob Adams" ,
"Boyd Butler" ,
"Charles R. Chandler" ,
"Chuck Brietigam" , "DFCPAC" ,
"Doug Gray" ,
"FinnLassen" ,
"Jim Kemp" ,
"LarryJenison" ,
"LeastDrag" , "Norman Hunger" ,
"PILOT8127" ,
"Randy Compton" ,
"Rob Reece" , "RobertHughes" ,
"RobertMiller" , "RV3FLYER" ,
"RV3PILOT" , "Steve Lopez" ,
"William \"Bill\" Saindon" ,
"WILLMINCEY"
Saw this on the RV-list and thought someone might know someone who would be
interested. Kinda spendy at $32K though!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Baker
Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 7:51 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV-3A For Sale
Posting this for a friend who is not on the list. Please contact him
directly. Thanks.
Gary Baker
RV-6 (Working on wings)
N4GB (Reserved)
Medina, OH
For Sale:
1996 RV-3A. O-320, wing mods completed, wing tanks, sliding canopy, Garmin
250 GPS/Com, King KT-76A transponder, mode C, two axis electric trim,
strobes, nav lights, fuel mixture indicator, day/night VFR. Red, white,
blue paint. A high performance eye-catcher. $32,500. Don @ 817 560 0604.
TX.
Don H Blessing
11717 Pine Creek Ct
Aledo, TX 76008
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry -xlax- Lovisone <netters2(at)ns.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List Digest: 12/05/99 |
We used nut plates and 8/32 screws on all our floor panels instead of pop rivets...
Larry xlax Lovisone
RV8 N248PL kit #24
RV8 weak wing theory http://rvators.com/rv8wing.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pdsmith <pdsmith(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Horiz Stab gap question |
I called Van's specifically about this question and their answer was - no
less than 1/8" to allow for flexing, flight loads etc.
Phil Smith
80691
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Filter--clean or replace |
Will the filter supplied by Vans is a K&N reusable type. Just clean it and
re-oil it following K&Ns instructions. If you have misplaced your servicing
instructions for the filter, they are available from Vans or at most auto
supply stores.
As far as the tires go remount them so the other side wears then replace
them, or when side wall checking (cracks) become a concern.
Will Cretsinger wrote:
>
> I am approaching my first annual condition inspection. Should the air
> filter be replaced or cleaned?
>
> Also, what is a good criteria to determine when to replace tires? I
> rotated my main tires at 134 landings since they were worn on one
> side...they still look pretty good. Is there a good rule as to when to
> discard?
>
> Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX
> -6A flying through 130 hours
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stuart B McCurdy <sturdy(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV3-List traffic |
Hi Guys,
I, like you, check the RV-3 list everyday, but see nothing there until
now. Glad to see there is somebody out there. I own the RV-3 which
Tony Bingelis built as his ninth project. I bought it from him when he
had to have a Pacemaker put in and decided to quit flying. I had helped
him fly off Phase I and knew what an excellent airplane it was. You may
have seen it at Oshkosh this year leading a formation of 9 experimentals
during the Showcase portion of the air activities. It is also on the
cover of Van's 2000 calendar at the end of the echelon. We took that
picture at Van's Homecoming this year and it is unique in that it is the
first and only time all 7 RV models have been pictured in flight
together.
I founded Formation Flying, Inc (FFI) this year in response to FAA's new
requirement that any pilot wishing to fly formation in FAA waivered
airspace had to possess a formation card issued by an agency approved by
FAA. On 21 Apr 99 FAA approved FFI to do so. FFI is available to
evaluate and issue cards if you have a desire to do.
Agree, the RV-3 is a wonderful flying machine. Light, nicely balanced,
great control response, good speed and fuel economy on 150 hp. I also
like the non counter balanced elevator because I can feel the pressure
on the stick while doing aerobatics, so it gives another feedback in
addition to seat of the pants. I recently put a Sensenich RV series
prop, 70x77, on the RV-3 and it made a world of difference. I put on
7/16 bolts and replace the 4' spool with a solid extention at the same
time. No vibration and 8 knots more speed. Great machine built by a
great master.
Glad to see some dialog of this list.
Stu McCurdy
RV3-List Digest Server wrote:
>
> From: DFCPAC(at)aol.com
> Subject: RV3-List: Re: RV3-List Digest: 12/04/99
>
> --> RV3-List message posted by: DFCPAC(at)aol.com
>
> does anyone use this list, or do they use the regular rv list? i own an rv3
> and would like to talk to other owners of rv3's.
>
> regards
> dan carley
> rv3a-148cw
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Filter--clean or replace |
Will,
Is it the K&N Filter from Van's? They were meant to be cleaned
and reused. Just tap it on the ground to get out the big stuff.
Then spin it like a tire in about an inch of solvent. (K&N makes
a special solvent sold at motorcycle shops, I always used gas)
Tap filter lightly on the side of your solvent container.
You'll be surprised how dirty the solvent gets. Let it dry. Then
spray it with K&N filter oil. (sold at same cycle shop)
Re-install.
Works great. Did it for many years on sand buggies & desert racers.
Larry Olson
Cave Creek, AZ
RV6 - Finish kit on order
>
>I am approaching my first annual condition inspection. Should the air
>filter be replaced or cleaned?
>
>Also, what is a good criteria to determine when to replace tires? I
>rotated my main tires at 134 landings since they were worn on one
>side...they still look pretty good. Is there a good rule as to when to
>discard?
>
>Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX
>-6A flying through 130 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
| Subject: | prop extension and tailwheel fairing for sale |
I have a 4" prop extension, 6" diameter, 3/8" bolt holes with matching crush
plate. The crush plate is factory grooved to hold the bolt heads while
torquing the prop bolts (so you don't have to remove the spinner). I bought
them from Van's. There's no damage or anything wrong with them. I used
them on my O-320- E3D for about 10 hours before switching to a different
prop. Van's sells the extension for $215 and the crush plate for $25,
according to my 1998 catalog. I will sell them for $190, which is $50 off.
I also have a tailwheel fairing, new, unused. Van's sells for $40. I'll
sell it for $30.
Or buy everything for $210 and save me an extra trip to UPS.
Vince Frazier
3965 Caborn Road
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
812-985-7309 evenings
University of Southern Indiana
812-464-1839 days
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Air Filter--clean or replace |
>I am approaching my first annual condition inspection. Should the air
>filter be replaced or cleaned?
Cleaned. There is a kit available to wash and re-oil the filter. I think it
is in Van's catalog and it is also available thorugh a race car speciality
shop in your area as they use the same filter system. There is a special
soap to wash it with and special oil to treat the element with. Don't use
just any old thing. And don't overload the filter with the oil when
reapplying it. There was some discussion whether they even need to be
cleaned every year or not (see archives). The filter will last a long time
if properly taken care of.
>What is a good criteria to determine when to replace tires?
Tires: Are the cloth belts showing? Time to replace them. Well, not quite,
although I know some pilots that use that as their time to replace. If they
still look good, keep them on. Some tires get so weather cracked before the
tread is worn they need replacing. Usually those are ones that sit around in
the sun and aren't used much. Not usually on an RV type airplane.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
You will be happy with either one, which ever one you build. They are both
one of the best values and best airplanes available.
I like the LOOKS of the -4 better. The swept-back gear (long or short) and
the cowl are the best looking in the business. I REALLY like the -4 cowl.
The cockpit: you can pack more into a -8 panel and there is more room in the
front office of the -8, but, having been in both, I like the way I FIT in
the -4 better. 'Course, that is what I fly, but I like the fact I have
somewhere to put my arms and elbows. Feels a bit more fighter-like. Either
will fly like nothing you have ever flown. Why do so many ex-fighter jocks
gravitate to the RV series? As close as you can get to military on the
civilian market.
The -8 holds more fuel and baggage. The strength issue is not an issue.
Period. Easier to build? Don't know. Either will eventually get built. The
final weight will depend on what you stick in it (and on it); it's hard to
rely on someone elses weight.
I vote for the -4; that is what I fly.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Beginning year 3 flying.......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan E. Files" <BFiles(at)corecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Filter--clean or replace |
Will,
It depends on what air filter you have. Brackett Air Filter says not to
clean. Paper Air Filters should be replaced every 500 hours. They should
be blown out every 100 hours.
**** Bryan E. Files ****
Ever Fly Maintenance
Palmer, Alaska
A&P, IA, FAA Safety Counselor
mailto:BFiles(at)corecom.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)arlington.net>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 6:31 AM
Subject: RV-List: Air Filter--clean or replace
>
> I am approaching my first annual condition inspection. Should the air
> filter be replaced or cleaned?
>
> Also, what is a good criteria to determine when to replace tires? I
> rotated my main tires at 134 landings since they were worn on one
> side...they still look pretty good. Is there a good rule as to when to
> discard?
>
> Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX
> -6A flying through 130 hours
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Christie" <billc(at)dancris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: Flaring Tool] |
Reading the comments on steel vs. aluminum lines reminded me of when I was
in the F-14 program in the early seventies. The hydraulic lines for the 3
systems were titanium using 4000 psi. The first prototype was crashed at
Calverton NY on approach when the last hydaraulic ststem was lost. It turned
out that they had rigidly mounted the lines to the airframe and the
vibration work hardened the lines and they fractured. They (Grumman) then
used insulated adel clamps and other such mounts and they worked fine from
then on. Sure were light too! An armfull of tubing seemed like it weighed
nothing. The point is that I think either will work as long as attention is
paid to how it is mounted and isolated from vibration.
Bill C. RV-8A; Flaps
----- Original Message -----
From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: [Fwd: Flaring Tool]
>
> I fail to see why a steel line would be subjected to more stress than an
> aluminum line. See very few aluminum springs. Most automotive fuel lines
> are steel. Injector lines for aircraft under high pressure are steel. A
> simple loop in a line relieves most any destructive stresses. Where there
is
> a lot of movement, flexible hoses are placed inline even with aluminum.
> Last but not least there is an AD for the 200 HP Lycoming in a Cessna
> Cardinal to replace the aluminum prop governor line with a steel line with
> aircraft steel fittings. Why the aluminum line and fittings were breaking.
>
> The major reason is weight for aircraft, especially in the large -8
fittings
> and lines. Aluminum is generally strong enough with no internal rust
> problems. But plated steel lines have been in automotive use for years as
> fuel lines and brake lines as it is cheaper without the electrolysis
> problems of aluminum. Probably the ideal would be titanium except for the
> cost.
>
> Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
> (Click here to visit our Club site at
http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Friday, December 03, 1999 6:44 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: [Fwd: Flaring Tool]
>
>
> >
> >
> >> So are there good reasons NOT to use steel fuel lines that I, in my
> >> inexperience, am simply not aware of?
> >
> >I am no expert in aircraft design, but I can think of two good reasons:
1)
> >airplanes use aluminum fuel lines - be extremely careful in changing
> >anything from "standard" aircraft design, and 2) as the airframe moves
> >under stress, strain is imparted to the fuel lines. Steel lines will see
3
> >times the stress loads as aluminum when deflected the same amount. Good
> >enough reasons for me.
> >
> >Alex Peterson
> >Maple Grove, MN 6A
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HELP! Opinions NEEDED! |
I guess I need to get my two cents in also.
I am building a -4 (on the gear with engine installed). I have flown both
the -4 and -8. They handle very much alike (in fact all RVs handle great).
After sitting in both airplanes, obviously the -8 is roomier but if you are
less than 6 feet and less than, say, 180 lbs, the -4 is fine (the front seat
is more than adequate.
The -4 kit will take longer since it has not been refined like the new -8
kits (a local professional RV builder just finished a -8 in 1400 hours...
not a Quickbuild). He estimates a -4 around 2000 hours.
Just a matter of personal preference.
Doug Weiler, pres MN Wing
RV-4 engine installation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRobert569(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: strobe positon question |
IMHO we might be geting a bit carried away here. With that many strobe lights
you may need that second alternator just to drive them. Again, acknowledging
that the regs are not mandatory here, a strobe system should be visible 75 degrees
above and 75 degrees below the horizontal plane of the aircraft. That is
the guidline to use. Whatever your combination or where they are, if they meet
the guidlines stated then you will have no problem.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A Baffles and wires and...
"Das Fed"
In a message dated Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:28:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bobpaulo(at)aol.com
writes:
>
> if i install perturbing wing tip strobe/position lights, a tail
> strobe/postion light (in lower part of rudder), and a belly strobe, must i
> have additional strobe on top of fusel. or on vert stab??? thanx, bob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: HELP! Opinions NEEDED!- Go 4 it |
Bert, good points but I do not agree. I like center line seating so that when
aerobatics are done you get a better feel and can see out both sides equally.
I like flying with company too but will not perform aerobatics with two up
beyond rolls as I do not think that any of the Rv's have adequate strength
reserves (my opinion) for two-up aerobatics. I seem to fly mostly alone and
it is that way it seems with most pilots. I like taking people up and giving
rides and flying with my wife--what is the problem with this in a RV4--are
you saying it is a single place airplane--I do not understand? I am
collecting parts now for a Pitts Special--the real McCoy and it will be a
single place and I would not have it any other way. With a Kitfox and a RV4
(soon) to give rides the Pitts will be my Aerobatic machine--sportsman and
advanced someday (big talk). Each to their own but sorry-I like the RV4
better than the 6 or the 8 and nothing has changed my mind. The advantages of
the 6 over the 4 only come to the fore front when one starts into cross
country capability and convenience and as I stated the 4 is a more sporting
machine and I like that it is compromised in favor of a sporting nature vs
cross country and the opposite is true of the 6. If you like the 6 then build
the 6, I like the 4 and that is what I am building and do not regret it--no
apoligies--I like the 4. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HAROLD1339(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 For Sale |
Rv4 for sale excellent condition contact me of list for complete spec sheet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: HELP! Opinions NEEDED!- Go 4 it |
When looking at the 4 & 8, they are both good planes, but you should also
look at the Harmom Rocket II and the F-1 Rocket.
I liked the 4 and then the 8 came out, but I wanted something alottle faster
and the F-1 Rocket was that plane
chris Wilcox
F-1 Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod(at)aol.com |
1982 RV-3 For Sale. 425 TT; 615 SMOH. 160hp O-320-B2C; Sensenich metal prop;
King digital comm; King Mode C xponder; Full gyros; Electric elevator trim;
Imron paint--VERY nice. No spar mods.
I bought N99RV in July as a time-builder. It worked! I've been hired by a
regional airline, but for what they're paying me I've got no business owning
an airplane!
Delivery is possible. Please contact me directly if you're interested.
Best regards to all.
Rod Woodard
Ft. Collins, Colorado
WoodardRod(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duberstein, Allen" <allen.duberstein(at)intel.com> |
| Subject: | Experience with IVO Props |
Has anyone had experience using an IVO Prop on an O320 Lycoming. I am
looking at the in flight adjustable version.
Thanks
Allen Duberstein
allen.duberstein(at)intel.com
Phone: 412-831-7302
Fax: 412-831-5742
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRobert569(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Tach |
Bill,
It just so happens that I was reading through my VM-100 installation manual about
this just the other day. The RPM digital readout gives engine hours when the
engine is not running. AS soon as the engine starts then it automatically
changes to engine RPM. The hour meter part does not start calculating hours until
the engine RPM reaches 1500 revs. This saves me from buying a hobbs meter.
Mike Roertson
RV-8A
"Das Fed"
In a message dated Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:59:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, pagan
writes:
>
> Seems like I remember something on the list about electric tach not
> recording time on the hour meter unless they are running at a certain rpm.
> Searched the archives but couldn't get a good hit. Anybody know the answer?
>
>
> Bill Pagan
> N565BW
> "The original RV-8A builders page on the web"
> http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: HELP! Opinions NEEDED! |
Matt: Soon (hopefully) I could get you some air tme in my 6A if you have
interest. I am temporarily grounded due to insurance problems (life, not
aircraft). When the papers are in order again, I would be glad to visit
Tech... my plane is based at the house, about 30 mi N. of ROA. Meanwhile, I
am voluntarily restriced to lower-risk activities to keep the wife happy.
Contact me off list if you'd like to work something out. Seems like we may
have even had this discussion before??
Bill Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob U." <r.r.urban(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV3-List: Re: RV3-List traffic |
> I recently put a Sensenich RV series
> prop, 70x77, on the RV-3 and it made a world of difference. I put on
> 7/16 bolts and replace the 4' spool with a solid extention at the same
> time. No vibration and 8 knots more speed. Great machine built by a
> great master.
>
> Glad to see some dialog of this list.
>
> Stu McCurdy
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hi Stu,
The catalog recommended metal prop for the RV-3 is 70X79.
The 70X77 is listed/recommended for the RV6.
Why did you stray from that recommendation knowing that the prop is
limited to MAX of 2600 RPM?
Got any knowledge of the Sensenich wood props for the RV-3?
Seems Sensenich is recommending the 68X82 for the RV-3 series.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net> |
For a lot of us this is the worst time of the year for carb ice with the
temperatures around freezing and high humidity, but still this shouldn't
cause any real concerns. With a properly installed carb heat system I have
never had a problem controlling it. For me the key to it is knowing what is
going on and recognizing the symptoms
and staying right on top of it.
In Randall's case the other day and as others have already mentioned carb
ice under those conditions is almost guaranteed. The engine being stone
cold at start up and a long slow warm-up gives it every chance for the ice
to build.
For what it is worth this has been my procedure in these conditions.
Because of the temperatures, humidity etc. I am already on guard and ready
for it. Assuming the aircraft is in a unheated hangar or tied down outside
with the temperature at the freezing point I preheat the engine for half an
hour using a flat in-car warmer laying in the outlet at bottom of the
cowling. This should be done in the hangar out of the wind or if outside
cover the cowling with a good blanket with the aircraft into wind.
Then on start-up keep the RPM down to 1000-1100 initially so you don't red
line the oil pressure then gradually work up to 1700 RPM until getting oil
temp to a minimum 110-120 using carb heat if any roughness occurs. Then
taxi to take -off position or preferably into a run-up bay if available at
the end of the runway. For me this is the most important part, run up again
to 1700-2000 with full carb heat watching for any rise in RPM or manifold
pressure. When these stabilize or you have run a minimum of 15-20 seconds
go to full cold and take-off immediately.
Again this is just the way I have done it over the years and others may
have different ideas.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
> From: pat_hatch <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Carb Ice
> Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 7:34 PM
>
>
> Randall:
>
> Happens to me all the time with the conditions you stated. At idle (low
> manifold pressure) you're getting a pretty good temp drop in the carb,
this
> with a little moist air, and you get the ice. Engine starts to run real
> rough some times when taxiing out, it will go away after using carb heat.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pat Hatch
> RV-4 N17PH @ INT
> RV-6 Tanks
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Randall Henderson <randallh(at)home.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 1999 12:55 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Carb Ice
>
>
> >
> > I believe I experienced carb ice yesterday morning in my RV-6. Not
certain
> > as my carb temp probe isn't hooked up yet. But on run-up, when I pulled
> the
> > carb heat, the tach went down about 100 RPM, then slowly came back up
> about
> > 50 RPM. OAT was 323 degrees with a 0 degree
> > temp/due point spread.
> >
> > Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~50 hrs)
> > Portland, OR
> > http://www.edt.com/homewing
> >
> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net> |
Hi Joe:
I guess I didn't give enough detail on the installation of the flapper
valve (alternate air, carb heat or what ever you want to call it ). It is
installed in the throat of the carb air box ahead of the filter so that the
intake air is filtered regardless of what the position of the flapper valve
is.
If you have noticed the vortex created by the prop when taxiing in dry
grass or dusty conditions, by using the alternate air it keeps a lot of the
junk out of the filter and cuts down on the servicing of the filter.
I have found that under these conditions it works well just to leave it on
until airborne as there is very little difference is take-off performance.
The intake air area is much the same using the flapper valve. On the
otherhand as the airspeed builds after take-off there is a noticeably
improvement in performance at the higher power settings using straight ram
air.
As I have said before the design of Vans air box is the best I have seen.
By using the K&N filter which is reusable it is very economical and I
believe because of the large filtered area I get the highest full throttle
manifold readings I have seen on a naturally aspirated engine.
All the best
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
----------
> From: Joe Waltz <TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Carb heat
> Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 6:15 AM
>
>
> Eustace,
>
> Why would you use alt. air on the ground in dusty conditions to give
> your filter a break? Aren't these the conditions that the filter is
> installed for? How about giving the engine a break and filtering out
> the dust?
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Wills" <willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: HELP! Opinions NEEDED!- Go 4 it |
>
>Bert, good points but I do not agree. I like center line seating so that when
>aerobatics are done you get a better feel and can see out both sides equally.
>I like flying with company too but will not perform aerobatics with two up
>beyond rolls as I do not think that any of the Rv's have adequate strength
>reserves (my opinion) for two-up aerobatics. JR
JR,
As a fellow -4 builder I definitely agree with all your points. Let me
add to it. An often mentioned advantage of the -6 is the side by side
seating for communication and to avoid forcing your pax to stare at the
back of your head. Ive never understood the communication issue; your both
on intercom arent you? I will concede that in cross country
flying/navigating where both are looking over a sectional side by side
would be more convenient.
The rear seat visibility in the -4 is still terrific, better than most
spam that Ive been up in. For a guy my size (6'1" and 190#) I prefer the
the elbow and shoulder room in the tandem airplanes and would trade that
for the "improved" seating arrangement af the -6. In my admittedly limited
experience (short flights in -4, -6, and HR2) thats my preference. To each
his own I guess.
Mike Wills
RV-4 starting firewall forward
willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Builders Bookstore <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Experience with IVO Props |
"Duberstein, Allen" wrote:
>
> Has anyone had experience using an IVO Prop on an O320 Lycoming. I am
> looking at the in flight adjustable version.
I've flown them on ultralights, and in that category have found them to be somewhat
smooth but very inefficient. The blades are too soft and flexed under load causing
a 10-15% speed loss compared to other ultralight props.
As far as on a Lycoming, I have no first hand experience but have heard several
cases of problems with the blades moving in the hub. The conclusions seemed to
be
that the IVO is just not built to accept the pulsiness of our big bore Lycs.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com> |
| Subject: | Experience with IVO Props |
Try Jim Ayers at . He uses this prop on his LOM powered
RV-3.
Rob Reece
RV-3 SN45
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Duberstein,
> Allen
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 12:34 PM
> To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: RV-List: Experience with IVO Props
>
>
>
>
> Has anyone had experience using an IVO Prop on an O320 Lycoming. I am
> looking at the in flight adjustable version.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Allen Duberstein
> allen.duberstein(at)intel.com
> Phone: 412-831-7302
> Fax: 412-831-5742
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Experience with IVO Props |
In a message dated 12/6/1999 2:53:26 PM Central Standard Time,
winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com writes:
<< > Has anyone had experience using an IVO Prop on an O320 Lycoming. I am
> looking at the in flight adjustable version.
I've flown them on ultralights, and in that category have found them to be
somewhat
smooth but very inefficient. The blades are too soft and flexed under load
causing
a 10-15% speed loss compared to other ultralight props.
As far as on a Lycoming, I have no first hand experience but have heard
several
cases of problems with the blades moving in the hub. The conclusions seemed
to be
that the IVO is just not built to accept the pulsiness of our big bore Lycs.
Andy
>>
I am not sure on this, but i think that problem has been corrected. The new
IVO props are suppose to be able to handle up to 500 hp. They have made some
changes. I know that a friend who is building a dragonfly is looking at an
IVO inflight adjustable prop on his 150 hp subara. You might want to check
with IVO though if any changes were made
Chris Wilcox
F-1 Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pilotrv6a(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: shop cleaning sale |
Hi Bob
Stopped buy Kokomo Airport the other evening and saw this nice looking
airplane setting on the ramp with no wings. Looked it over and it looked
GREAT.
NICE WORK!
Sherman Dedman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Japundza, Bob" <bjapundza(at)dowagro.com> |
| Subject: | shop cleaning sale |
Hi Sherman,
Good to hear from you, and thanks for the compliments! I had to run back
home that day after I dropped it off so it sat on the ramp for about an
hour. Denny helped me push it back into the hangar. It's been a long
process, too long. Gets old after a while. Right now I'm working on the
right wing--it's almost ready for the main skins, but I will set the other
wing up in another jig before I start skinning, since I am waiting on my
fuel tanks to be built. I finished up the flaps this weekend, and have both
ailerons built. Should be February-March before it flies, but I plan on
hammering away at it during the week I have off over the holidays. I have a
feeling that we'll be flying to a lot of places together!
Thanks!
Bob Japundza
Dow AgroSciences Information Management
EnterpriseWise IT Consulting
317-337-5348
-----Original Message-----
From: Pilotrv6a(at)aol.com [mailto:Pilotrv6a(at)aol.com]
Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: shop cleaning sale
Hi Bob
Stopped buy Kokomo Airport the other evening and saw this nice looking
airplane setting on the ramp with no wings. Looked it over and it looked
GREAT.
NICE WORK!
Sherman Dedman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Japundza, Bob" <bjapundza(at)dowagro.com> |
| Subject: | shop cleaning sale |
Oops, meant to reply direct.
> Hi Sherman,
>
> Good to hear from you, and thanks for the compliments! I had
> to run back home that day after I dropped it off so it sat on
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Articles on refueling with plastic jugs |
| From: | scott.fink(at)microchip.com |
12/06/99 03:32:23 PM
We aren't allowed to fuel in the hangar at all, the plane must be pulled
out before fueling (this is MUCH easier if the doors are open!).
Scott Fink
"Cy Galley"
To:
Sent by: cc:
owner-rv-list-server@mat Subject: Re: RV-List: Articles
on refueling with plastic jugs
ronics.com
12/03/1999 02:59 PM
Please respond to
rv-list
One more good idea is to have the hangar door open when doing the
fueling---
if you have a hangar!!
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
-----Original Message-----
From: scott.fink(at)microchip.com <scott.fink(at)microchip.com>
Date: Friday, December 03, 1999 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Articles on refueling with plastic jugs
>
>
>Tim,
>
>In order to (legally) use auto gas at a city of Phoenix airport we were
>required to take a 2 hour course. It boils down to this:
>
>You must use metal gas cans (never, never plastic per your subject line)
>
>You must use a metal funnel
>
>The airplane must be "bonded" to earth (i.e. grounded with a wire)
>The funnel is bonded to the plane (with a wire)
>The gas can is bonded to the funnel. (again with a wire)
>
>You can use wires for bonding with metal clips that can be bought at Radio
>Shack.
>
>The whole idea is to provide a path for any electrons stripped off by the
>flowing fuel a way to return from where they came and to hold everything
at
>one electrical potential. If everything is at the same potential (plane,
>funnel, gas can and therefore gas) there is no chance for a spark.
>
>We are also required to have a fire extinguisher nearby during the
fueling.
>
>Hope this helps,
>Scott Fink
>RV6 - about to close left wing
>
>
> "Tim Lewis"
> To:
rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent by: cc:
> owner-rv-list-server@mat Subject: RV-List:
Articles on refueling with plastic jugs
> ronics.com
>
>
> 11/30/1999 05:42 AM
> Please respond to
> rv-list
>
>
>Listers,
>
>Over the last couple of years I've read articles (Sport Aviation or
>AOPA Pilot, I think) on the hazards of refueling aircraft using 5 gallon
>gas cans. The danger is static electricity discharge causing fire. I'm
>looking for a safe way (if there is one) of transfering fuel this way.
>
>If anybody knows the location of good articles on this topic please let
>me know.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tim Lewis
>******
>Tim Lewis
>timrv6a(at)earthlink.net
>N47TD RV-6A, FAA Inspection scheduled 30 Nov 99
>Springfield VA
>http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
>http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a/jpi.html - No JPI stuff in my airplane
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HELP! Opinions NEEDED! |
Matt I have a RV4 under construction since 1994 and hope to finish it
next year. Comparing the 4 with the 8 I see the RV8 as being an upgraded
RV4 with a little more room for baggage, more horses up front, maybe a
little more speed and a little more width. Sometime back Van talked
about a modification to the RV4. I beleive they called it a fat 4 but it
never happened. I think the RV8 is the result. The RV8 will cost you a
few more bucks and has refinements you probably won't see on the RV4. As
a matter of fact since the 8 came out you see hardly anything about the
RV4 in the RVATOR anymore. I guess you could call it Van's redheaded
stepchild. I still prefer the RV4 but if I had it all to do again I
would go with the RV6 because of the side by side seating when you have
a passenger. OK guys I just donned the nomex so fire away.
Earl RV4 trying to get the wing angle worked out before I drill the
rear spar attatch.
Matt Orr wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I've been looking at the RV's at several other homebuilts for several
> years and have finally figured out that I really like the RV-4 as it's a bit
> lighter then the RV-8 (on paper). Do they really weigh less then the -8
> when equipped the same (numbers PLEASE)?
>
> The RV-4 seems like a better aerobatic airplane as I couldn't find a
> single one that broke in flight and I looked through each RV-4 accident
> since 1983.
>
> Is the -8 really that much easier to build then the -4? If I could
> build an Rv-4 in about the same time as an RV-8 I think the -4 would be the
> better airplane. I've seen an RV-8 tail kit and it seemed nice and I've
> also seen a Harmon Rocket that's in the final stages. Are there less bugs
> or headaches in the RV-8 kit?
>
> Which is the better way to go? I've been agonizing over this with a
> friend whose workshop I'll use and who will most likely be a partner
> building for the last few months. We've worked together on projects similar
> but not to quite this scale before or we'll each build our own if the kit
> seems doable.
>
> I want to use the aircraft for sport aerobatics with the occasional
> cross-country.
>
> What's the "better" airplane to fly, to build?
>
> If you say I should get a ride in each tell me what airport to meet you
> at on the east coast (near VA). ;-)
>
> Thanks,
> Matt Orr
>
> I've looked through the archives and found ~2700 messages on primer.
> And ~270 comparing RV-4 to RV-8 and didn't find what I was looking for
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HELP! Opinions NEEDED! |
Matt Orr wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I've been looking at the RV's at several other homebuilts for several
> years and have finally figured out that I really like the RV-4 as it's a bit
> lighter then the RV-8 (on paper). Do they really weigh less then the -8
> when equipped the same (numbers PLEASE)?
>
> The RV-4 seems like a better aerobatic airplane as I couldn't find a
> single one that broke in flight and I looked through each RV-4 accident
> since 1983.
>
Can't tell you about the -8.
My -4 weighs 930 w/lyc 160hp (carb), no gyros, 1 comm, 1 loran.
Interior: paint only with foam/cloth seat cushions.
By the way, if you'd like to fly (for less money) instead of building,
I'm asking $37k. My wife wants to ride up front.
It IS the best flying airplane I'v ever flown.
Charlie
N4375J
Slobovia Outernational (MS71)
Jackson MS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com> |
| Subject: | FAA Inspection Lead Time |
Just a heads up to everyone. FAA called today to let me know they'll be
out on 12/17 to inspect my plane. I sent in my paperwork on 11/22. I
suppose the info that I'd have the inspection within 2 weeks after I sent
in my paperwork was wrong. I didn't get that info from the FAA. Everyone
should keep in mind that the lead time could be more than you anticipate.
It probably would have been a good idea to have inquired about the lead
time before.
Just thought ya'll would like to know.
Bill Pagan
N565BW
"The original RV-8A builders page on the web"
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andy <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Experience with IVO Props |
> > The conclusions seemed to be
> >that the IVO is just not built to accept the pulsiness of our big bore Lycs.
>
>
> Pulsiness?????
As I understand, the large and relatively slow moving pistons on Lycoming and
Continental engines, especially the Lyc 0-360, are particularly hard on props as
their rotational movement is very jerky each time they fire.
(thump, thump, thump, thump)
This compared to a two stroke ultralight engine with small pistons travelling at
over 6000 rpm. These light, fast strokes are much smoother as felt by the prop.
This is supposedly why an ultralight's prop bolts are just AN-4s while your RV's
Prop bolts are AN-10s. It is also why designing fixed pitched metal props for
your Lycoming is so difficult, and why Sensenich took so long to get it right,
and why many aircraft with fixed metal props have rpm restrictions.
I call this "pulsiness", but I'd be glad to give it another name.
Andy
(I do stand to be corrected on this whole matter, but it's what I've thought I've
learned over the years)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com> |
If my electric tach only records time on the meter when it runs at 1500+
how should I record my time on the aircraft as well as in my log. I've
always just used the hobbs for my log (flying) time. Should I just record
time for the aircraft and logbook by real time?
Bill Pagan
N565BW
"The original RV-8A builders page on the web"
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New Site: SourceRV.com! |
In a message dated 12/6/99 1:16:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
SSoule(at)pfclaw.com writes:
<< How did you Listers sign up for this. All I see at www.rvsource.com
<http://www.rvsource.com> is a graphic of softwood trees and the words
"coming soon." >>
Steve
Be sure to let us all know when you see more than softwood trees. do not
archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRobert569(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Adjustable Rudder Pedals - 8A |
Rick,
I have an 8A but with the fully adjustable pedals, but have ben also having some
of the same problems. The first thing I learned was to look at each drawing
and see if it had a "A" drawing right after it to go with the 8A verses just
the 8.
On the 8A there is just one bulkhead forward of the main wing spar. That whole
assembly for the -8 landing gear does not exist. For me that created a bit of
a problem with the optional rear pedals as the drawing from Van's had part of
the mounting attaching to the 802 tower. As this obviously does not exist in
the 8A I was a bit perplexed as where to mount them. Van's answer was to drill
a couple of holes in the floor and pop rivet them.
The very next thing I learned was to check and recheck the parts carefully. I
have received numerous wrong parts. Van's has replaced every one of them at no
cost to me so there is no complaint there but it has been very trying to figure
out some parts that are only meant for the -8 and won't fit the -8A.
Good Luck and good building.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A QB baffling and wiring and .....
In a message dated Sun, 5 Dec 1999 7:09:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Rick Jory"
writes:
>
> Anyone building an 8A with ground adjustable rudder pedals . . . the plans
> show a left and right "F-802G" (drawing OP-3). These are also shown on
> Drawing 24. However, on my QB kit these are not there . . . and it looks
> like these may have a function for the tail dragger version but not the tri.
> Has anyone run up against this? The aft end of F-8108 (L & R) are bent to
> provide clearance for both of these--but my 8A QB doesn't have them. This
> may be a question for Van's.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Rick Jory, Highlands Ranch, Co
> RV8A QB . . . fuselage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Experience with IVO Props |
Hi
A friend of mine had a Ivo Prop on his 0-320 and kept breaking the copper
strips. It vibrated at about 1200rpm,s and it was the new improved model.
It is for sale for $350.00 ...(it was in a Glasair Tri Gear)
Also another friend had a 3 blade in flight adjustable in his CA65
0-320 He took it off also, (kept breaking strips) He is selling it for
$650.00
If you are interested in amy of these e-mail me off line.
Bob Cornacchia
RV6
RV6ARC(at)AOL.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Experience with IVO Props |
Check the archives for IVO. I got 400 hits. It is worth your time to
read these posts. I sure hope this IVO prop will perform as advertised.
There have been some very serious problems with older models.
Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Setting Wing Incidence Angle |
Thanks to Chuck and all who responded to the flap issue. I now have the
wings square with no sweep. The bottom skin is flush with the fuselage.
Per vans instructions for setting incidence on RV4 wing & drawing SK-51
I need a block 3 and 3/64 inches to get the bubble in the center of
level. this puts the wing rear spar 1/4 inch lower than what Van call
for. I have screwed up too many times already and have had to remove and
replace the rear spar carry through. I do not want to do it again and
would like to get the incidence angle right the first time.
My question is about the angle of horizontal stabilizer due to the 1/4
inch difference of the wing. Per SK-48 Van shows a 1/4 spacer under
the level at the rear spar. Would this go to 1/2 inch or decrease to
0 inch? Maybe another aproach would be to raise the rear of fuse till
Van's measurement of 2.8 inches was reached and then set the angle of
the stab til I get the 1/4 inch called for in SK-48.
Sorry about the length but I am paranoid about drilling the rear spar
attach. All comments welcome.
Earl, RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRobert569(at)aol.com |
Bill,
FWIW the people I know log flight time from the moment the wheels move to the time
they stop, then log tach time towards their overhaul time.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A QB
In a message dated Mon, 6 Dec 1999 7:09:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, pagan
writes:
>
> If my electric tach only records time on the meter when it runs at 1500+
> how should I record my time on the aircraft as well as in my log. I've
> always just used the hobbs for my log (flying) time. Should I just record
> time for the aircraft and logbook by real time?
>
>
> Bill Pagan
> N565BW
> "The original RV-8A builders page on the web"
> http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Experience with IVO Props |
--- OrndorffG(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Check the archives for IVO. I got 400 hits. It is worth your
> time to
> read these posts. I sure hope this IVO prop will perform as
> advertised.
> There have been some very serious problems with older models.
>
> Becki Orndorff
Warning: Longish musings follow!
I've read the archived posts (every one) and I don't get it.
There's a pile of money to be made out there for someone who has the
expertise; I don't know why Hartzell doesn't go for the experimental
market.
I fly (renting) behind a manual (pull the rope!) in-flight adjustable
prop. Actually, I have three positions: Climb, Cruise and Feather.
This is on a Grob 109B motorglider. The prop blades are metal.
The problem with IVO seems to be the composite blades (from what I've
read) - why don't they just do metal? Maybe good reason, but maybe
just a desire to perfect composite props...?
I would dearly love to spend the $1800 on a climb/cruise in-flight
adjustable metal prop for my -6 rather than the compromise fixed-pitch
metal, hanging that on an O320. Something between fixed and fully
constant speed. I think a lot of people would go with that. The setup
seems perfect for us. Might could even keep the feather handle (Dick
Rutan has soared a LongEZ, why not an RV?).
:)
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Experience with IVO Props |
Please check the Matronics RV-List Archive and search
for IVO.
http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html
I got 755 hits. I have not heard anything good about
IVO Props on Lycoming engines.
IMHO:
Under no circumstance would I fly behind an Ivo prop
on an RV. (or any Lycoming engine powered airplane
with an Ivo Prop)
It takes a lot of work and time to build an airplane,
I will not risk MY airplane on an Ivo Prop.
"There are OLD pilots, and there are BOLD pilots. But
there are no old bold pilots." I intend to become an
OLD pilot.
Fly safely.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
So. CA, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV3-List: Re: RV3-List traffic |
since the question on propellers came up. i have a hendrickson #220892
h68f76 prop. has anyone used or heard of this wood prop. it seems to be
working well for the rv but i have noticed when i get into low rpm settings
it seems like i might be getting a small vibration.
dan carley
rv3a-148cw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Rear Fuel Tank Baffle |
Hi Listers,
I'm thinking about the process of closing up the tank with the rear baffle.
I'm building a RV-8 if it matters. I have checked out Sam Buchanan's
excellent site, and his method looks good, but there are some conflicts with
accounts from other sources. The manual from Van's says the baffle should
be sealed first, and then the skin should be countersunk and riveted after
the sealant cures. Some posters on the list have suggested using Saran Wrap
over the spars and allowing the tank to final cure on the wing to insure a
good fit. This would make it impossible to apply the wood clamps as shown
on Sam's web page. I know there can be more than one way to do things, but
I thought I'd get opinions before doing anything permanent.
Thanks in advance,
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Filter--clean or replace |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
> Is it the K&N Filter from Van's? They were meant to be cleaned
> and reused. Just tap it on the ground to get out the big stuff.
> Then spin it like a tire in about an inch of solvent.
-
Do not use solvent , gasoline or any think other than the K&N filter
cleaner to clean your filter.
The filter media in the filter that you have is cotton. It can be
damaged by other chemicals, high pressure air, etc.
Unless you want to take a chance at reducing the filtering capability of
the element it would be wise to clean and reoil (not with a spray oil by
the way, they are only for the foam filters I believe) it only per the
instructions that came in your K&N filter or that is included in the
recharge kit.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Countersunk Washers |
How does one countersink fiberglass for the #6 Countersink washers? Is
there is a different size bit?
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Blake" <danblake(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HELP! Opinions NEEDED!- Go 4 |
I got 1.5 hrs. two weekends ago in a guy's Subaru powered -4. He is about
150, and me 225 in the back. Needed a little nose down trim, but otherwise
flew beautifully. I'll also agree that to my eyes, the -4 is the best
looking RV, but...
The -4 is more than a little tight in the back seat for me. My dad is 6'2",
and all of my brothers are over 200. I've flown in the back of an -8 and
a -4, and -8 is much better for the back seater. Although my wife is small,
I want her to be as comfortable as possible. She let me talk her out of
a -6, so I need to cut her some slack. Good one her. Showed her pictures
of a -6a, then bought the -8 tail kit. She took it well. We will x-country
quite a bit, too, so the added useful helps with luggage. No QB in a -4,
but I guess that's really not a valid argument for most.
RV's - They're all damn wonderful, every one of them.
Dan Blake
-8 tail
Atlanta
----- Original Message -----
From: <JRWillJR(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 1:44 AM
Subject: RV-List: HELP! Opinions NEEDED!- Go 4
>
> I know that I will be flamed unending but I too still think the RV4 is the
> perfect sport aircraft. I liked it when it first came upon the scene and I
> like it no less now. This is not to take away from the 8 or the 6 but the
4
> is in my opinion the perfect sporting aircraft. Definitely lighter,
possibly
> stronger, with on center seating, racy canopy and a superb compromise of
> sporting agility with cross country capability. Yes, it has some
> negatives---Bubbas on the Van's Bubba Scale beyond 7+ may find the rather
> roomy accommodations slightly lacking compared to the 8 but not really
much
> less than the 6 as you do not have to share elbow room and then there is
the
> unending legend of the tail heavy RV4. Yes, it is true that I at 180 lbs
> probably would not want to shove a 240 pounder into the back seat and go
> zoomering about but fortunately for me all my friends are almost normal in
> size and my dear wife barely makes 120 dripping wet dressed. I am also of
the
> opinion and it is just an opinion that aerobatics in any RV should be kept
to
> a solo proposition anyway. Yep, I still like the 4 and not looking to
build
> the RV 12 A. JR, RV4 slowly progressing at less than a snails pace
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Setting Wing Incidence Angle |
>
> Thanks to Chuck and all who responded to the flap issue. I now have the
> wings square with no sweep. The bottom skin is flush with the fuselage.
> Per vans instructions for setting incidence on RV4 wing & drawing SK-51
> I need a block 3 and 3/64 inches to get the bubble in the center of
> level. this puts the wing rear spar 1/4 inch lower than what Van call
> for. I have screwed up too many times already and have had to remove and
> replace the rear spar carry through. I do not want to do it again and
> would like to get the incidence angle right the first time.
>
> My question is about the angle of horizontal stabilizer due to the 1/4
> inch difference of the wing. Per SK-48 Van shows a 1/4 spacer under
> the level at the rear spar. Would this go to 1/2 inch or decrease to
> 0 inch?
Earl: There would not be a one to one correlation between the amount you
have to adjust the aft wing spar and what you need to adjust the horizontal
stab to compensate for it. What you want to keep constant is the relative
angles between the wing and horiz. stab.. Divide the .25" by the distance
between the main wing spar and aft wing spar, and then multiply it by the
fore/aft distance between the spars on the horiz. stab. This should get
you the amount to adjust the h. stab. It will be something less than half
the .25". This is important - you really should try to find a EAA tech
counselor or another RV builder to go through this with, as I'm not sure I
understood your problem correctly. Hang in there, there is no hurry to
drill those aft spar holes.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert F. Murillo" <bertrv(at)intellistar.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Personal experience with Aircraft fire |
Ed:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert F. Murillo" <bertrv(at)intellistar.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: RV VG's costs |
Ted: what type of material are these tabs....For more than $400
they must be an exotic material?
Bert
DoNot archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
>If my electric tach only records time on the meter when it runs at 1500+
>how should I record my time on the aircraft as well as in my log. I've
>always just used the hobbs for my log (flying) time. Should I just record
>time for the aircraft and logbook by real time?
From FAR 1.1 General Definitions:
Flight time means:
(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power
for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after
landing;
In practice this means you can log time pretty much any time you want. Hobbs
and tach time are most commonly used but some people like to keep track of
actual "flight" time. I don't think the FAA really cares unless you
overstate your time.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~50 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rear Fuel Tank Baffle |
I had just the same question about attaching the rear baffle to my '8 tanks.
Earlier this evening I watched George's video on sealing the tanks, and he
goes ahead and rivets the baffles to the skin and then puts the wood clamps
on too. No mention of letting it cure, then countersinking instead of
dimpling the skins.
Terry Watson, #80729
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Johnson <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com>
> I'm thinking about the process of closing up the tank with the rear
baffle.
> I'm building a RV-8 if it matters. I have checked out Sam Buchanan's
> excellent site, and his method looks good, but there are some conflicts
with
> accounts from other sources. The manual from Van's says the baffle should
> be sealed first, and then the skin should be countersunk and riveted after
> the sealant cures. Some posters on the list have suggested using Saran
Wrap
> over the spars and allowing the tank to final cure on the wing to insure a
> good fit. This would make it impossible to apply the wood clamps as shown
> on Sam's web page. I know there can be more than one way to do things,
but
> I thought I'd get opinions before doing anything permanent.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Steve Johnson
> RV-8 #80121
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Experience with IVO Props |
Mike Thompson, I disagree, I have IVO experience, and the problem is not the
composite blades but the design of the prop itself and the method of securing
the blades--a metal or wooden prop with the same design would suffer the same
problem. There is at least one list member--the Maroon Marauder or some
such--that has had good success with the IVO. I will not go into my saga as
it has already been posted to the archives--but for your info I vote NO on
IVO. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
>In practice this means you can log time pretty much any time you want.
Hobbs
>and tach time are most commonly used but some people like to keep track of
>actual "flight" time. I don't think the FAA really cares unless you
>overstate your time.
Oops -- I reread the original post and you were talking about aircraft log
too... wouldn't want to UNDERstate in your engine/airframe log either! I
can't speak with any authority on that although I don't think logging the
"over 1500" time would turn out to be much different than what you get from
a mechanical tach (assume it's working right), since those are calibrated
for a specific cruise RPM. So time logged from that is only a guestimate
anyhow.
Randall
________________________________________________________________________________
Anybody know off the top if there is such an animal as a female union for
fuel lines? I'm trying to close couple the facet pump to an Airflow
Performance filter w/o having to make up a short section of alum. tube.
Thanks, mates.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck Brietigam <brietigam(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel fittings |
Boalty(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Anybody know off the top if there is such an animal as a female union for
> fuel lines? I'm trying to close couple the facet pump to an Airflow
> Performance filter w/o having to make up a short section of alum. tube.
> Thanks, mates.
>
You might wish to look in an EARL's catalog. They're a car parts
supplier that sells 37 degree fitting to the hot rod set. They have many very
clever fittings you don't find elsewhere. Their number is 310-609-1602.
Chuck Brietigam, RV-3's forever!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRGSCHMIDT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fuel fittings |
Yes there are special fittings available from Earl's Performance Products at
189 W. Victoria St. Long Beach Ca. 90805 Phone 310 609-1602. Most speed
shops carry their products and I found them to be of superior quality when
compared to Aeroquip. They will send you a catalog within a few days and you
can see what is available. Good luck
Greg Schmidt
RV6S Wiring and Canopy fairing forming
PHX Deer Valley (DVT)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
Eustace,
Thanks for the reply. I was worried that you were using unfiltered air
in dusty conditions.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <fesenbek(at)marykay.com> |
| Subject: | HELP! Opinions NEEDED! |
One important item to check before you purchase any airplane is....
Will I be able to insure it? If that is important to you. In-motion
aircraft insurance was very important to me. I don't know what the
insurance situtation is with the Rocket but you might want to check that out
prior to investing a few years building one. The same goes for any other
kit.
Gary Fesenbek
RV6A
Dallas, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ollie Washburn" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com> |
Looking for alist of flying RVers in Fl. to get together for lunch or
flyins. Ollie RV6-A N716R
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HELP! Opinions NEEDED!- Go 4 |
Be very careful with that much weight in the back seat of a -4. I lost two
friends on the turn to final stall-spin.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Blake <danblake(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: HELP! Opinions NEEDED!- Go 4
>
>I got 1.5 hrs. two weekends ago in a guy's Subaru powered -4. He is about
>150, and me 225 in the back. Needed a little nose down trim, but otherwise
>flew beautifully. I'll also agree that to my eyes, the -4 is the best
>looking RV, but...
>
>The -4 is more than a little tight in the back seat for me. My dad is
6'2",
>and all of my brothers are over 200. I've flown in the back of an -8 and
>a -4, and -8 is much better for the back seater. Although my wife is
small,
>I want her to be as comfortable as possible. She let me talk her out of
>a -6, so I need to cut her some slack. Good one her. Showed her pictures
>of a -6a, then bought the -8 tail kit. She took it well. We will
>quite a bit, too, so the added useful helps with luggage. No QB in a -4,
>but I guess that's really not a valid argument for most.
>
>RV's - They're all damn wonderful, every one of them.
>
>Dan Blake
>-8 tail
>Atlanta
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <JRWillJR(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 1:44 AM
>Subject: RV-List: HELP! Opinions NEEDED!- Go 4
>
>
>>
>> I know that I will be flamed unending but I too still think the RV4 is
the
>> perfect sport aircraft. I liked it when it first came upon the scene and
I
>> like it no less now. This is not to take away from the 8 or the 6 but the
>4
>> is in my opinion the perfect sporting aircraft. Definitely lighter,
>possibly
>> stronger, with on center seating, racy canopy and a superb compromise of
>> sporting agility with cross country capability. Yes, it has some
>> negatives---Bubbas on the Van's Bubba Scale beyond 7+ may find the rather
>> roomy accommodations slightly lacking compared to the 8 but not really
>much
>> less than the 6 as you do not have to share elbow room and then there is
>the
>> unending legend of the tail heavy RV4. Yes, it is true that I at 180 lbs
>> probably would not want to shove a 240 pounder into the back seat and go
>> zoomering about but fortunately for me all my friends are almost normal
in
>> size and my dear wife barely makes 120 dripping wet dressed. I am also of
>the
>> opinion and it is just an opinion that aerobatics in any RV should be
kept
>to
>> a solo proposition anyway. Yep, I still like the 4 and not looking to
>build
>> the RV 12 A. JR, RV4 slowly progressing at less than a snails pace
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com> |
| Subject: | fuel fittings: Earl's |
I stopped by Earl's while on business in Torrance CA. They can make you any
custom flex lines/fittings combination you like and are reasonable in price.
We had to go there for some emergency 15' flex lines for an aerospace vavle
qualification test I was running and they garunteed them to 1500 psi and
had them made in about an hour. Great folk, good product.
I noticed that they carry nice aluminum oil coolers in a variety of sizes
that already have AN fittings welded on to them. They appear perfect for
homebuilt use and only run about $80 or so if I remeber correctly.
Blue skies & RV-3's forever!
Rob Reece
RV-3 SN45
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chuck Brietigam
> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 5:19 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: fuel fittings
>
>
> Boalty(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Anybody know off the top if there is such an animal as a female
> union for
> > fuel lines? I'm trying to close couple the facet pump to an Airflow
> > Performance filter w/o having to make up a short section of alum. tube.
> > Thanks, mates.
> >
>
> You might wish to look in an EARL's catalog. They're a car parts
> supplier that sells 37 degree fitting to the hot rod set. They
> have many very
> clever fittings you don't find elsewhere. Their number is 310-609-1602.
> Chuck Brietigam, RV-3's forever!!!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: RV VG's costs |
Part of the cost is the engineering and development.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
-----Original Message-----
From: Bert F. Murillo <bertrv(at)intellistar.net>
Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: RV VG's costs
>
>Ted: what type of material are these tabs....For more than $400
>they must be an exotic material?
>
>Bert
>DoNot archive
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Experience with IVO Props |
referance the ivo prop conversation i had a hanger mate that had the ivo
magnum prop on a rotax 912, flew it about 10 hours,had problem with the
copper strips moving also,checked and found that the bolt holes were
elogating in the hub, was getting to much play in the hub,the metal in hub
was too soft,ivo stated that nothing was wronge with it,he throw it in the
trash can, i have it on my wall right now to look at, refuse to even sell
it,dont want a friend of mine to have a problem with it,in all fairnes to the
design of the prop,it in it self seem to be a good preforming prop , frank
goggio
fayetteville nc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fuel fittings |
In a message dated 12/7/99 12:12:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, Boalty(at)aol.com
writes:
<< Anybody know off the top if there is such an animal as a female union for
fuel lines? I'm trying to close couple the facet pump to an Airflow
Performance filter w/o having to make up a short section of alum. tube. >>
Earl's P/N 915106 Straight female to female swivel coupling 3/8".
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | fuel fittings: Earl's |
>
>
>I stopped by Earl's while on business in Torrance CA. They can make you
>any
>custom flex lines/fittings combination you like and are reasonable in
>price.
>We had to go there for some emergency 15' flex lines for an aerospace vavle
>qualification test I was running and they garunteed them to 1500 psi and
>had them made in about an hour. Great folk, good product.
>
>I noticed that they carry nice aluminum oil coolers in a variety of sizes
>that already have AN fittings welded on to them. They appear perfect for
>homebuilt use and only run about $80 or so if I remeber correctly.
>
>Blue skies & RV-3's forever!
>
>Rob Reece
>RV-3 SN45
I have many of Earl's AN fittings in my fuel system and they work just fine.
I did find one bulkhead fitting that had one flare that looked pretty bad.
Obviously a manufacturing flaw. I took it back to the local seal and fitting
supply where I bought it and they exchanged it no questions asked. So, just
make sure to visually inspect them before use. Of course, this applies to
any fitting from any source.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
Albuquerque, NM
Inspection time!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gummos" <tg1965(at)linkline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HELP! Opinions NEEDED! |
> One important item to check before you purchase any airplane is....
> Will I be able to insure it? If that is important to you. In-motion
> aircraft insurance was very important to me. I don't know what the
> insurance situtation is with the Rocket but you might want to check that
out
> prior to investing a few years building one
Gary,
I was one of the first to complain about getting insurance for my rocket
project. I have obtained 50 hours of tailwheel time and now have a quote
coming. I will supply details once I know. Then maybe we can compare what
the rates are for an RV-4 vs Rocket.
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley,CA
engine, cowl, other 90% to go items, first flight in next millennium
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | AN fittings/ lines & fuel cap engraving |
Paul Bessing posted a note regarding Earls back in July. (message
#57377) He also noted that if you call Dick at WM. Engineering
800-886-3275, he would give you jobber price. I have dealt with Dick for
about three mouths and what Paul didn't mention was how great this guy
is to deal with. Your orders no matter how small are shipped instantly
and are what you ordered. A couple of times to save me cod fees he just
shipped smaller items and asked me to send a check. Lets see, Great
service, Good prices and a Great Guy to deal with, WOW. I think we
should implement some kind of rating for suppliers. Say a scale of 1 to
5 "Vs", if we did WM. Engineering would get a solid "5Vs".
While I'm on the subject of service, you might remember I posted a note
regarding fuel cap engraving and a company called Engraphics. Well my
caps are back, and the quality of the work is substandard (letters
touching each other, letters are not consistent from cap to cap (I have
three). I don't recommend Engraphics. They would get 1V and that is only
because they did return them in a reasonable time frame.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Weight & Balance |
In several recent posts, it was mentioned that the RV-4 is a little touchy
in the area of weight and balance, and that we have to be careful about
passenger and baggage loading. This is true of most RV-4's. However, when
you have a -4 with an 0-360, or more, an IO-360, or more yet, an IO-360
with constant speed prop, gross weight is more important to look at than W
& B. Its nearly impossible to get out of W&B in my -4 with it's 0-360.
And in keeping strictly with Van's suggestions on Maximum Gross Wt. I have
always been restricted by weight, but never balance. I do cheat, sometimes,
in the gross weight area if I going out in smooth weather with my copilot.
But I never cheat in the W&B...Its almost impossible to leave the envelope.
And, of course, I would never dare to load too far to the rear anyway.
Interestingly, max rear trim is barely enough to keep me on the glide slope
with a lightweight passenger.
Next week, I'm going to install one of Mark Landoll's flywheel weight rings
to smooth out my low RPM vibrations. Then I'm going to have to pull hard to
stay on the glide slope. Yukkk.
Louis
Louis I. Willig, RV-4 - N8ZZ
larywil(at)home.com
(610) 668-4964
Philadelphia, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Browne <cebrowne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | 3M FIRE BARRIER 2000 |
Has anyone used this to seal gaps in the firewall? I know from the
archives most folks use proseal or high temp RTV, but I saw this in ACS
and it design to expand and insulate under direct flame. It is supposed
to go on just like regular caulk.
Chris Browne
-6A
Altanta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
I need to order some teflon or UHMW tape for my flaps. What is the width
required? Should the tape go on the flaps or under the top wing skin
overhang?
I'm getting my tape locally and don't have Van's catalog with me. Van's
leadtime is too long because the RV is going to the airport Saturday!
Rick Caldwell
RV-6 one wing left to paint.
Melbourne, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Weight & Balance |
Maybe I should elaborate on my friends. Even though one might be in proper
W&B, when you approach after CG. Stalls with the ball not centered can be a
real event. As snap to spin can quickly happen. I had one when my son and
I were air camping is a Skyhawk. Poor handling of the controls at low air
speed and the normally benign Skyhawk snapped into a spin. Why, our camping
gear was in back. Obviously I had enough altitude for recovery. My friends
that overbanked the turn to final did not.
In both cases, it was due to NOT using the controls smoothly, and not having
the ball centered. Aft CG aggravates the situation.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
-----Original Message-----
From: Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 10:55 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Weight & Balance
>
>
>In several recent posts, it was mentioned that the RV-4 is a little touchy
>in the area of weight and balance, and that we have to be careful about
>passenger and baggage loading. This is true of most RV-4's. However, when
>you have a -4 with an 0-360, or more, an IO-360, or more yet, an IO-360
>with constant speed prop, gross weight is more important to look at than W
>& B. Its nearly impossible to get out of W&B in my -4 with it's 0-360.
>And in keeping strictly with Van's suggestions on Maximum Gross Wt. I have
>always been restricted by weight, but never balance. I do cheat, sometimes,
>in the gross weight area if I going out in smooth weather with my copilot.
>But I never cheat in the W&B...Its almost impossible to leave the envelope.
>And, of course, I would never dare to load too far to the rear anyway.
>Interestingly, max rear trim is barely enough to keep me on the glide slope
>with a lightweight passenger.
>
>Next week, I'm going to install one of Mark Landoll's flywheel weight rings
>to smooth out my low RPM vibrations. Then I'm going to have to pull hard to
>stay on the glide slope. Yukkk.
>
>Louis
>
>Louis I. Willig, RV-4 - N8ZZ
>larywil(at)home.com
>(610) 668-4964
>Philadelphia, PA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com> |
You can get it from Avery Tools by Thursday/Friday. Catalog number 8469,
.010" UHMW x 3" x 10', for $12.00 roll. It is usually placed under the wing
skin.
Rob Reece
RV-3 SN45
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Caldwell
> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 10:10 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Flap Tape
>
>
> I need to order some teflon or UHMW tape for my flaps. What is the width
> required? Should the tape go on the flaps or under the top wing skin
> overhang?
>
> I'm getting my tape locally and don't have Van's catalog with me. Van's
> leadtime is too long because the RV is going to the airport Saturday!
>
> Rick Caldwell
> RV-6 one wing left to paint.
> Melbourne, FL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net> |
----------
> From: Denton Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Carb heat
> Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 3:46 PM
>
>
Hi Denton: See my thoughts below:
> Thanks, Eustace! I have wondered since I returned to carb. power why
there
> wasn't an electrically heated system. There seems to be a lot of off
field
> landings/crashes blamed on carb. ice. If it isn't caught in time as we
all
> know there is no heat to clear the passage. Though it does seem like an
> electric heated system would be another problem to add to the already
> complex and costly safety sytems of airplanes. And it seems to be more
> likely in some aircraft then others.
>
> A friend of mine had it happened to him in a Tomahawk a couple years ago
> here in Oregon. He said it happened very suddenly with no warning. The
> engine started to lose RPM, he pulled the carb heat and it quit. They
were
> low and had little choice in landing fields. He and his wife did walked
> away with scatches and bruises, but the plane was junk. I have heard of
a
> couple of others in the last couple years, locally.
Denton I think what happened here was the pilot did not recognize the
warning signals that the engine would be giving such as the gradual loss
off RPM or because off the type of maneuvering he was doing and then it got
so advanced when he did apply carb heat he got such a slug of water that it
killed the engine. If he had the height he probably could have restarted
it. This is another case of the pilot not paying enough attention to his
engine.
> I don't have the prop time you have, Eustace, but I had it happen one
time
> in my prop time, in a Luscombe, in the '50, low over Long Beach, Calif.
It
> lost a lot of power suddenly, I pulled the Carb heat, it got worst, I was
> looking for some soft place in the city to land and then it roared back
to
> life. It left me with nightmares for awhile, plus a real interest in the
> subject.
This is normal when you have a large build up of carb ice it is just the
water going through. If you are not used to it it can be a bit
disconcerting but on the other hand it can be music to your ears knowing
that your carb heat is working.
Regards
Eustace
>
> Have a great Day!
> Denny Harjehausen
> Lebanon, OR
> RV-6
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Hays <jshays(at)interaccess.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3M FIRE BARRIER 2000 |
Check out this link, it's the 3M webpage for the Fire Barrier:
http://www.3M.com/firestop/html/p_01.html
Jeff Hays.
On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Chris Browne wrote:
>
> Has anyone used this to seal gaps in the firewall? I know from the
> archives most folks use proseal or high temp RTV, but I saw this in ACS
> and it design to expand and insulate under direct flame. It is supposed
> to go on just like regular caulk.
>
> Chris Browne
> -6A
> Altanta
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Browne <cebrowne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 3M FIRE BARRIER 2000 |
Yeah, I saw it. After visiting the web page, I just bought some from a 3M
fire protection products distributor in Atlanta for for $12.00. Or you can
buy it for $21.50 from ACS. Think I'll try it out - has to be as good as
proseal or RTV.
Chris Browne
-6A finish
Atlanta
Jeff Hays wrote:
>
> Check out this link, it's the 3M webpage for the Fire Barrier:
>
> http://www.3M.com/firestop/html/p_01.html
>
> Jeff Hays.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
I have my F671 fwd top skin clecoed on to overlap the fuselage skins.
Have the C602 canopy fwd skin clecoed to the weldment across the top &
into the round tubing. I need to drill the "lower row" of rivets into the
f616.
Can't see how I will allow the plexi to fit on top of this skin, yet duck
inside it on the sides. If I nail the lower row of rivets, I will not be
able to "joggle" for the glass later. I saw one project with notches cut
but would rather joggle.
I need to fit the c603 side skin to the F631 rear frame & to the C602 top
skin.
Should I work from the rear & line up the 603 to the 625 structure , then
to the 602.
Will C603 side skin " clecoed on" hold the weight & side force of the
plexi while I am marking for trimming?
Please Helllllpppp.
Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank and Dorothy <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Setting Wing Incidence Angle |
Alex Peterson wrote:
> This is important - you really should try to find a EAA tech
> counselor or another RV builder to go through this with, as I'm not sure I
> understood your problem correctly. Hang in there, there is no hurry to
> drill those aft spar holes.
What Alex wrote is right about the angles.
However, no-one so far has mentioned the thrustline... if the wing is
inclined upward relative to the fuselage a few degrees, and the HS the
same amount, then when the wing is in level flight the fuselage will be
inclined down by that angle. And that means that (unless you adjust your
engine mounts accordingly) the engine will also be pointing downward a
few degrees. Even if the mounts are shimmed to angle up by the right
amount, the relative positions of thrustline, wing, and HS will be
displaced vertically from their designed positions by a small amount.
I have no idea what effect this might have on flight characteristics.
Earl, I suggest you discuss this whole thing with Van's.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A-canopy frame |
If I am reading your post correctly, the plexi does not go inside of the
skin on the sides. I put in the lower row of rivets, and had no problem
doing the joggle with seaming pliers.
You should match the side skin up with the forward canopy skin. Leave the
aft side long for now, as you should trim it when everything is in place and
things won't move. Yes, clecos will hold it down for cutting and trimming.
Also, be absolutely sure that all things are attached and tight when you
mark and trim. I mean have the latch mechanism in and latched, the gas
struts in, etc, etc...this way there will be no surprises when you put those
things in...please, don't ask me how I know this...the new bubble will be
here in January.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
-----Original Message-----
From: donspawn(at)juno.com <donspawn(at)juno.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 1:17 PM
Subject: RV-List: 6A-canopy frame
>
>I have my F671 fwd top skin clecoed on to overlap the fuselage skins.
>Have the C602 canopy fwd skin clecoed to the weldment across the top &
>into the round tubing. I need to drill the "lower row" of rivets into the
>f616.
>
>Can't see how I will allow the plexi to fit on top of this skin, yet duck
>inside it on the sides. If I nail the lower row of rivets, I will not be
>able to "joggle" for the glass later. I saw one project with notches cut
>but would rather joggle.
>
>I need to fit the c603 side skin to the F631 rear frame & to the C602 top
>skin.
>Should I work from the rear & line up the 603 to the 625 structure , then
>to the 602.
>Will C603 side skin " clecoed on" hold the weight & side force of the
>plexi while I am marking for trimming?
>
>Please Helllllpppp.
>
>Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric Bob-alternator question |
I am trying to hook a regulator up that is a external unit #F7078 that is about
one inch by two inch by 1/4 inch thick that is embedded in potting compound
with a small pot sticking out of the potting compound (voltage adjustment)......
You mount this unit to the rear of your alternator and hook the pigtails up as
the instructions detail.
I am using your supplied drawing.... z fig 2. Where, in the battery alt
switch, there exits a wire to the OV module ( which I purchased) to the CB to
the "A" lead to the regulator......I can't seem to find this connection on the
Mark Landoll regulator ......no "A" lead is described or apparent on this type
of regulator ( as described above).
I want to use your drawings so am I better off using the Wells/Ford unit or can
I still use the small "can" I described above and hope to find the proper lead
??
The instructions that came with the "can" state:: From the alternator connect
the red wire to the alternator studd labeled BAT... connect the yellow wire to
the studd labeled STA & connect the green wire to the studd labeled FLD...there
is no mention of the control line & I want to install (via your z fig 2
)......I assume the regulator is getting its B+ from the BAT terminal. H E
L
P .......
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Countersunk Washers/Cutting Fiberglass |
I took a tip from the Glassair/Lancair/Plastic Porta-Toilet builders...& use a
dremmel bit
with a "cone shaped stone"on the end. With a little shopping I found a store
that a few cone shapped stones that fit my #6,#8 & #10 C/S washers. The neat
thing is it dosen't dull your cutter (if you found one) F/G really chewes-up any
metal cutter......the stones put a nice cut in the F/G & sorta burnish the hole
thereby sealing out oils & watter & dirt from the substratta matrix of the
F/G...
rv8er(at)home.com on 12/06/99 11:03:23 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Countersunk Washers
How does one countersink fiberglass for the #6 Countersink washers? Is
there is a different size bit?
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
| Subject: | fuel fittings: Earl's |
Like Brian Denk said, "inspect it all before use." I got an AN6 fitting
from ACS that had no threads on the pipe fitting side. Of course this
was easily detected but it points out the fallability of even aircraft
parts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
>If I am reading your post correctly, the plexi does not go inside of the
>skin on the sides.
My writing never comes out like I am thinking. I understand the 603 side
pieces go outside the glass & the frame inside.
> I put in the lower row of rivets, and had no problem doing the joggle
with >seaming pliers.
That is what I wanted to here. When I get there, I will send the Lear for
you.
>You should match the side skin up with the forward canopy skin. Leave
>the aft side long for now, as you should trim it when everything is in
>place and things won't move. Yes, clecos will hold it down for cutting
and
>trimming. Also, be absolutely sure that all things are attached and
tight when
>you mark and trim. I mean have the latch mechanism in and latched, the
>gas struts in, etc, etc...this way there will be no surprises when you
put
>those things in...please, don't ask me how I know this...the new bubble
will
>be here in January.
Now that is out of the normal order. I will look into that. I just been
going with the instructions. I remmember you got a little upset at that
first try. Sorry to hear that.
The instrustions I was reading last nite, indicated some drill the glass
as a hole & some split it & then drill to the roll bar & back frame.
Which way do you recommend? Also what caused your canopy to crack?
Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
========================================================
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>http://members.home.net/rv8er
>Finish Kit
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: donspawn(at)juno.com <donspawn(at)juno.com>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 1:17 PM
>Subject: RV-List: 6A-canopy frame
>
>
>>
>>I have my F671 fwd top skin clecoed on to overlap the fuselage skins.
>>Have the C602 canopy fwd skin clecoed to the weldment across the top
>&
>>into the round tubing. I need to drill the "lower row" of rivets into
>the
>>f616.
>>
>>Can't see how I will allow the plexi to fit on top of this skin, yet
>duck
>>inside it on the sides. If I nail the lower row of rivets, I will not
>be
>>able to "joggle" for the glass later. I saw one project with notches
>cut
>>but would rather joggle.
>>
>>I need to fit the c603 side skin to the F631 rear frame & to the C602
>top
>>skin.
>>Should I work from the rear & line up the 603 to the 625 structure ,
>then
>>to the 602.
>>Will C603 side skin " clecoed on" hold the weight & side force of
>the
>>plexi while I am marking for trimming?
>>
>>Please Helllllpppp.
>>
>>Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Newman" <newmanb(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3M FIRE BARRIER 2000 |
Firestop rated sealant is also available from drywall supply companies; not
Lowes or Home Depot, but commercial drywall supply companies that
service the trade. I paid $11.95 for a 10 OZ tube. It seems to go on fine.
Bob Newman
> archives most folks use proseal or high temp RTV, but I saw this in ACS
> and it design to expand and insulate under direct flame.
> Altanta
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel fittings |
>
> >
> > Anybody know off the top if there is such an animal as a female union for
> > fuel lines? I'm trying to close couple the facet pump to an Airflow
> > Performance filter w/o having to make up a short section of alum. tube.
> > Thanks, mates.
> >
>
> You might wish to look in an EARL's catalog. They're a car parts
> supplier that sells 37 degree fitting to the hot rod set. They have many very
> clever fittings you don't find elsewhere. Their number is 310-609-1602.
>
Earls has a web site. I bought fittings and an oil cooler from Earls and it has
worked great.
http://www.earls3.com/
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Morrissey, John" <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | 3M FIRE BARRIER 2000 |
Hi All,
What about the statement on the web page that says;
3. Limitations
3M Fire Barrier 2000 and 2003 Silicone Sealants should not be applied to:
- Building materials that bleed oils, plasticizers or solvents (e.g.,
impregnated wood, oil-based caulks, green or partially
vulcanized rubber)
I would have thought that an engine bay would be "Full" of things that bleed
oils!!
Just a thought.
John Morrissey
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Browne [mailto:cebrowne(at)earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 December 1999 6:21
Subject: Re: RV-List: 3M FIRE BARRIER 2000
Yeah, I saw it. After visiting the web page, I just bought some from a 3M
fire protection products distributor in Atlanta for for $12.00. Or you can
buy it for $21.50 from ACS. Think I'll try it out - has to be as good as
proseal or RTV.
Chris Browne
-6A finish
Atlanta
Jeff Hays wrote:
>
> Check out this link, it's the 3M webpage for the Fire Barrier:
>
> http://www.3M.com/firestop/html/p_01.html
>
> Jeff Hays.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV8DRIVER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rear Fuel Tank Baffle |
>Hi Listers,
I'm thinking about the process of closing up the tank with the rear baffle.
I'm building a RV-8 if it matters. I have checked out Sam Buchanan's
excellent site, and his method looks good, but there are some conflicts with
accounts from other sources. The manual from Van's says the baffle should
be sealed first, and then the skin should be countersunk and riveted after
the sealant cures. Some posters on the list have suggested using Saran Wrap
over the spars and allowing the tank to final cure on the wing to insure a
good fit. This would make it impossible to apply the wood clamps as shown
on Sam's web page. I know there can be more than one way to do things, but
I thought I'd get opinions before doing anything permanent.
Thanks in advance,
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121<
Steve. I'm also building an -8, and have given the tank construction some
thought. With regard to the idea of letting the tank final cure on the spar,
I don't believe its necessary if you carefully control the tank skins in the
leading edge jig. By this I mean that if you make certain that the top edges
of the skins are perfectly parallel to each other, you obviouslycannot have a
twist in it and it should fit fine. This can be done with an acccurate bubble
level. It won't matter if the tank is level in the long dimension, just that
both ends read the same on the level. Of course, if you have a twist in the
spar, the tank won't fit. (Just kidding, Heaven forbid!) Andy Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Browne <cebrowne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 3M FIRE BARRIER 2000 |
Hi John,
My guess would be adherence since nothing will stick to an oily surface, including
proseal and RTV. I'll check the tube, though.
Chris Browne
-6A finish
Atlanta
"Morrissey, John" wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> What about the statement on the web page that says;
>
> 3. Limitations
>
> 3M Fire Barrier 2000 and 2003 Silicone Sealants should not be applied to:
>
> - Building materials that bleed oils, plasticizers or solvents (e.g.,
> impregnated wood, oil-based caulks, green or partially
> vulcanized rubber)
>
> I would have thought that an engine bay would be "Full" of things that bleed
> oils!!
>
> Just a thought.
>
> John Morrissey
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A-canopy frame |
Your best bet is to scrap the Van's instructions, and go by the Wil
Cresinger instructions..they are much more detailed, and more logical. You
can download them from:
http://www.flash.net/~gila/wing_docs/canopy_notes2.htm
FWIW, I cut the two first, then did the drilling...I think it would be tough
the other way..but then again, I don't think I am that credible, as I am now
going to be on canopy #2!
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | breakaway fuel fittings ? |
Greetings,
Since we're on the subject of fuel fittings, has anyone ever seen a breakaway fitting
small enough
for use on the hoses that run from the fuselage to the fuel tanks? Every gas pump
has one of these
fittings that are made to break away and seal off the hose if someone happens to
drive away with the
nozzle in their tank. Of course these are huge, but I wondered if anyone makes
one small enough to
use for the tank hoses. It seems like that would be really good insurance in the
case of an
accident that pulls the wingtip back. I guess the other option would be to use
flex hose and leave
enough slack to cover any reasonable amount of seperation between the wing and
fuselage. Just an
idle thought .
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (trade project for 8 hours of sleep)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 3M FIRE BARRIER 2000 |
The caulk probably doesn't adhere to oily surfaces. For one that bleeds oil,
the fire barrier would fall off or become loose. Since aluminum is NOT
porous, I don't think it would be a problem. You could ask if gas and oil
would do this to the sealing you were doing to your combine enclosure after
you applied it to a clean metal surface!!!
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
-----Original Message-----
From: Morrissey, John <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au>
Date: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: 3M FIRE BARRIER 2000
>
>Hi All,
>
>What about the statement on the web page that says;
>
>3. Limitations
>
> 3M Fire Barrier 2000 and 2003 Silicone Sealants should not be applied to:
>
>- Building materials that bleed oils, plasticizers or solvents (e.g.,
>impregnated wood, oil-based caulks, green or partially
>vulcanized rubber)
>
>I would have thought that an engine bay would be "Full" of things that
bleed
>oils!!
>
>Just a thought.
>
>John Morrissey
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Chris Browne [mailto:cebrowne(at)earthlink.net]
>Sent: Wednesday, 8 December 1999 6:21
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: 3M FIRE BARRIER 2000
>
>
>Yeah, I saw it. After visiting the web page, I just bought some from a 3M
>fire protection products distributor in Atlanta for for $12.00. Or you can
>buy it for $21.50 from ACS. Think I'll try it out - has to be as good as
>proseal or RTV.
>
>Chris Browne
>-6A finish
>Atlanta
>
>Jeff Hays wrote:
>
>>
>> Check out this link, it's the 3M webpage for the Fire Barrier:
>>
>> http://www.3M.com/firestop/html/p_01.html
>>
>> Jeff Hays.
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
Bill
How's your drill press working out for you ??
Gert
The Von Dane's wrote:
>
>
> This is the drill press I bought:
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/taf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=583
>
> Grizzly Tools sells a similar 12 speed drill press:
> http://www.grizzlyindustrial.com/fcgi-bin/lookup.fcgi/products/lookup.
> cfg?q=item&kw=G7944
>
> Bill Von Dane
> RV-8A N912V (reserved) Elevators
> http://vondane.tripod.com
> _
> _
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, November 28, 1999 5:41 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Drill press
>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> It's a full size. I, too, am trying to conserve space and funds, but
> decided
> that the purchase of a good drill press would be an appropriate use of
> both.
> Just my two cents...
>
> Ken
>
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Rear Fuel Tank Baffle |
I did both. I riveted on the rear baffle, put on the wood clamps, and let
it sit about 24 hours. I then removed the clamps and screwed it onto the
spar and pretty much left it there.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: RV8DRIVER(at)aol.com [mailto:RV8DRIVER(at)aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 2:01 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rear Fuel Tank Baffle
>Hi Listers,
I'm thinking about the process of closing up the tank with
the rear baffle.
I'm building a RV-8 if it matters. I have checked out Sam
Buchanan's
excellent site, and his method looks good, but there are
some conflicts with
accounts from other sources. The manual from Van's says the
baffle should
be sealed first, and then the skin should be countersunk and
riveted after
the sealant cures. Some posters on the list have suggested
using Saran Wrap
over the spars and allowing the tank to final cure on the
wing to insure a
good fit. This would make it impossible to apply the wood
clamps as shown
on Sam's web page. I know there can be more than one way to
do things, but
I thought I'd get opinions before doing anything permanent.
Thanks in advance,
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121<
Steve. I'm also building an -8, and have given the tank
construction some
thought. With regard to the idea of letting the tank final
cure on the spar,
I don't believe its necessary if you carefully control the
tank skins in the
leading edge jig. By this I mean that if you make certain
that the top edges
of the skins are perfectly parallel to each other, you
obviouslycannot have a
twist in it and it should fit fine. This can be done with an
acccurate bubble
level. It won't matter if the tank is level in the long
dimension, just that
both ends read the same on the level. Of course, if you have
a twist in the
spar, the tank won't fit. (Just kidding, Heaven forbid!)
Andy Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fuel fittings: Earl's |
What was Earl's web address?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Blake" <danblake(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Subaru RV-4 (was HELP! Opinions NEEDED!- Go 4) |
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Blake <danblake(at)worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Subaru RV-4 (was HELP! Opinions NEEDED!- Go 4)
> Yes, it's Bob Goodwin's (Ex F-15 jock) at Briscoe Gwinnett and a chapter
690
> member. I don't have an email address or pictures, but will ask him if he
> minds if I snap a few with the digi the next time I'm out there.
>
> As far as how it flies, it is pretty much standard RV. My
seat-of-the-pants
> feel is that the engine is _very_ smooth, and seems powerful. He was
> keeping the manifold pressure way down, and still we where blowing by 170
> MPH with my heft on board. I'd like to get the numbers solo, once he gets
> it sorted out. The sound is as if there are a couple of more smaller
> cylinders, but that may be because it's running at a higher RPM. He has
> been developing the turbocharger for it with the help of a guy named turbo
> Tom. Tom owns a turbocharger business, building a turbocharged Europa,
and
> they have been working to get exactly the right size turbo. Bob was
> purposely keeping the boost down during this development stage. This is
the
> second one that he's had installed, and I believe that it's just a hair
too
> large. I will say that the engine install is very neat and compact, even
> with the turbo and liquid cooling hardware.
>
> I'll snaps some pics, and put them on my web site if Bob doesn't mind.
>
> Dan Blake
> -8 tail
> Atlanta
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chris Browne <cebrowne(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 9:29 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: HELP! Opinions NEEDED!- Go 4
>
>
> > Hey Dan,
> >
> > I think I know the -4 you are talking about. Is it a Briscoe? I've
> watched it
> > over the last few years and it looked like a real challenge. How does
it
> fly
> > with the Subaru?
> >
> > Chris Browne
> > -6A Atlanta
> >
> > Dan Blake wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I got 1.5 hrs. two weekends ago in a guy's Subaru powered -4. He is
> about
> > > 150, and me 225 in the back. Needed a little nose down trim, but
> otherwise
> > > flew beautifully. I'll also agree that to my eyes, the -4 is the
best
>
> > > looking RV, but...
> > >
> > > The -4 is more than a little tight in the back seat for me. My dad is
> 6'2",
> > > and all of my brothers are over 200. I've flown in the back of an -8
> and
> > > a -4, and -8 is much better for the back seater. Although my wife is
> small,
> > > I want her to be as comfortable as possible. She let me talk her out
of
> > > a -6, so I need to cut her some slack. Good one her. Showed her
> pictures
> > > of a -6a, then bought the -8 tail kit. She took it well. We will
> x-country
> > > quite a bit, too, so the added useful helps with luggage. No QB in
> a -4,
> > > but I guess that's really not a valid argument for most.
> > >
> > > RV's - They're all damn wonderful, every one of them.
> > >
> > > Dan Blake
> > > -8 tail
> > > Atlanta
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <JRWillJR(at)aol.com>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 1:44 AM
> > > Subject: RV-List: HELP! Opinions NEEDED!- Go 4
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I know that I will be flamed unending but I too still think the RV4
is
> the
> > > > perfect sport aircraft. I liked it when it first came upon the scene
> and I
> > > > like it no less now. This is not to take away from the 8 or the 6
but
> the
> > > 4
> > > > is in my opinion the perfect sporting aircraft. Definitely lighter,
> > > possibly
> > > > stronger, with on center seating, racy canopy and a superb
compromise
> of
> > > > sporting agility with cross country capability. Yes, it has some
> > > > negatives---Bubbas on the Van's Bubba Scale beyond 7+ may find the
> rather
> > > > roomy accommodations slightly lacking compared to the 8 but not
really
> > > much
> > > > less than the 6 as you do not have to share elbow room and then
there
> is
> > > the
> > > > unending legend of the tail heavy RV4. Yes, it is true that I at 180
> lbs
> > > > probably would not want to shove a 240 pounder into the back seat
and
> go
> > > > zoomering about but fortunately for me all my friends are almost
> normal in
> > > > size and my dear wife barely makes 120 dripping wet dressed. I am
also
> of
> > > the
> > > > opinion and it is just an opinion that aerobatics in any RV should
be
> kept
> > > to
> > > > a solo proposition anyway. Yep, I still like the 4 and not looking
to
> > > build
> > > > the RV 12 A. JR, RV4 slowly progressing at less than a snails pace
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rear Fuel Tank Baffle |
Message text written by Stephan:
>Some posters on the list have suggested using Saran Wrap
over the spars and allowing the tank to final cure on the wing to insure a
good fit. This would make it impossible to apply the wood clamps as shown
on Sam's web page.<
Stephan,
If I were to do it again (and who knows, I might some day?) I would let the
tanks cure on the wing as others have suggested. When I did my tanks I had
too large a pro-seal filet on the baffle / tank skin that had to be pealed
off to properly fit the tank on the wing. This made it very difficult and
time consuming to put the tanks back on the wing, curing them in this
position would eliminate this effort. With the tank tightly secured I
don't see where there would be a problem but keep in mind that I have not
done this and have no first hand knowledge the lead history of those who
have done this
If you decide to use the time tested cloths pin method be sure to make only
a very small filet, especially inboard where the spar will come up very
close to the baffle when the tank is installed.
Scott A. Jordan
80331
gear and belly skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PANELCUT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Shipping Fuel CAPs |
Group
I had a real good turn out on the fuel cap offer, alot more than I would
have ever guessed. The turn around is a little slower than I hoped because I
have to keep them all seperated while I engrave them. I have finished all the
RV6 caps and will be starting the RV8's tomorrow I should finish all the rest
as well. I did ship a few today, but I will not post any names until tomorrow
night. I would like to hear from you when you receive them, and let the list
know how they look. I am shipping them all UPS ground so I can have a way to
track them if it is required. Again Thank you for your quick response to the
UPSIDE DOWN ISSUE, and your business, if I can help anyone with any kind of
engraving Just drop me a line.
Thanks
Steve Davis
The Panel Pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rear Fuel Tank Baffle |
| From: | Carl Froehlich <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
Steve,
Here is what I did on my 8A tanks (and I'm very happy with the
results):
- Countersink the skin for the rear baffle.
- Apply proseal and rivet (don't wait for the proseal to cure).
- Touch up with more proseal along obvious areas.
- Cover the wing spar with Saran Wrap and fasten the tank to the wing.
- After a day or so (sooner if you have a warm shop), take the tank off
(the Saran Wrap come off with the tank). Remove the Saran Wrap, do any
clean up if required, cover the spar with new Saran Wrap and reinstall
the tank. Repeat as required until the Proseal is fully cured.
This last step prevents ending up with the Saran Wrap bonded to the
proseal. It won't hurt anything but this is easy to do.
If the proseal is allowed to cure without doing the Saran Wrap step
you most likely have areas of proseal that interfer with the tank fitting
on the wing. These areas will need to be ground away (scotch bright
wheel works well). The Saran Wrap trick prior to the proseal curing is a
very simple way to make sure your tanks fit exactly right with no
additional action required.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (still putting in fuselage nutplates)
Vienna, VA
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Rear Fuel Tank Baffle
>Sent: 12/9/19 8:25 PM
>Received: 12/7/99 6:39 PM
>From: RV8DRIVER(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: RV List, rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: RV List, rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>>Hi Listers,
>
>I'm thinking about the process of closing up the tank with the rear baffle.
>I'm building a RV-8 if it matters. I have checked out Sam Buchanan's
>excellent site, and his method looks good, but there are some conflicts with
>accounts from other sources. The manual from Van's says the baffle should
>be sealed first, and then the skin should be countersunk and riveted after
>the sealant cures. Some posters on the list have suggested using Saran Wrap
>over the spars and allowing the tank to final cure on the wing to insure a
>good fit. This would make it impossible to apply the wood clamps as shown
>on Sam's web page. I know there can be more than one way to do things, but
>I thought I'd get opinions before doing anything permanent.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Steve Johnson
>RV-8 #80121<
>
>
>Steve. I'm also building an -8, and have given the tank construction some
>thought. With regard to the idea of letting the tank final cure on the spar,
>I don't believe its necessary if you carefully control the tank skins in the
>leading edge jig. By this I mean that if you make certain that the top edges
>of the skins are perfectly parallel to each other, you obviouslycannot
>have a
>twist in it and it should fit fine. This can be done with an acccurate
>bubble
>level. It won't matter if the tank is level in the long dimension, just that
>both ends read the same on the level. Of course, if you have a twist in the
>spar, the tank won't fit. (Just kidding, Heaven forbid!) Andy Johnson
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Setting Wing Incidence Angle |
EARL FORTNER wrote:
>
> It's all coming togeather now. I thank everyone for their input. I did
> not try to run the numbers altho the distance on the stabe was aprox 12
> inches and 26 3/8 inches on the wing. I did raise the rear of the plane
> til the bubble center on the wing, then went to the stab and it required
> 1/16 inch to get the bubble centered. The angle on longeron as measured
> with a Johnson magnetic angle locator is about 1 degree best I can tell.
> Think I will let set a day or so and take another look at it. The vert
> stab is already attached so don't know how I will handle that yet. But
> I assume I will have to realign the hinge bearings. I also signed up
> for Source RV last night but have not received a confirmation from them
> yet. Will query Vans through them when I can get in if possible.
>
> Thanks to all, Earl
>
> Chuck Brietigam wrote:
> >
> > Earl, you're absolutely correct. The thrust line of the engine will be changed.
> > But, I don't believe that this small of a change will be that noticeable--in
> > handling or performance. I set my RV-3 up in the manner I described to you.
The
> > main wing was first locked into position and then the angle of incidence of
the
> > horizontal stab was established from the main wing. I have an IO-320/constant
> > speed up front. I have raced both 180HP/CS RV-4's and RV-6's. They couldn't
keep
> > up-not even close. I regularly see 230 mph after takeoff. (well above Van's
> > stated Vne).
> > Again, you're right, the thrust centerline is going to change. To what
> > amount--it's hard the say. And like you, I labored very intensely while building
> > my airplane to get it as straight as possible. But, I know that my plane is
not
> > perfect. The smallest change in establishing any one of the corner firewall
> > positions will effect the thrustline. I'm not an aeronautical engineer--in
fact,
> > I'm just a pilot having fun. But, I would think that the drag created when
you
> > joggle the flaps to met the fuselage is about the same as changing the thrustline
> > to accomplish the alignment of the wing/fuselage. Somebody smarter than I will
> > have to answer this. It's beyond my understanding/knowledge. But, I can tell
you
> > of my experience and its success/failure. Talk with Van's. They can either
valid
> > or disprove my thinking.
> >
> > PS: I recommend doing the least amount of change to correct any problem.
> > Take care, Chuck
> >
> > EARL FORTNER wrote:
> >
> > > If this changes the angle at which the fuselage goes through the air
> > > what does it do to the thrust line from the engine?
> > >
> > > Charles Brietigam wrote:
> > > >
> > > > EARL FORTNER wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks to Chuck and all who responded to the flap issue. I now have the
> > > > > wings square with no sweep. The bottom skin is flush with the fuselage.
> > > > > Per vans instructions for setting incidence on RV4 wing & drawing SK-51
> > > > > I need a block 3 and 3/64 inches to get the bubble in the center of
> > > > > level. this puts the wing rear spar 1/4 inch lower than what Van call
> > > > > for. I have screwed up too many times already and have had to remove
and
> > > > > replace the rear spar carry through. I do not want to do it again and
> > > > > would like to get the incidence angle right the first time.
> > > > >
> > > > > My question is about the angle of horizontal stabilizer due to the 1/4
> > > > > inch difference of the wing. Per SK-48 Van shows a 1/4 spacer under
> > > > > the level at the rear spar. Would this go to 1/2 inch or decrease to
> > > > > 0 inch? Maybe another aproach would be to raise the rear of fuse till
> > > > > Van's measurement of 2.8 inches was reached and then set the angle of
> > > > > the stab til I get the 1/4 inch called for in SK-48.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry about the length but I am paranoid about drilling the rear spar
> > > > > attach. All comments welcome.
> > > > >
> > > > > Earl, RV4
> > > >
> > > > Hey Earl, sounds like you've got this thing nearly whipped. Good work.
Now
> > > > that you know that the main wing is now down from what Van says is ideal,
> > > > all you need to do is to raise the horizontal stab the same angular amount
> > > > (Not the measured amount--but angular amount). You stated the main spar
was
> > > > down 1/4 inch. What is this in degrees??? You can either compute the degree
> > > > difference (good old geometry) or measure it. I prefer measuring, if you
> > > > hace access to an inclinometer. Once you raise the rear spar to match this
> > > > angle, both the main wing and the tail will in the same relative plane
as
> > > > Van requires. Good luck, Chuck Brietigam
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 12/7/99 12:50:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
racaldwell(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< Should the tape go on the flaps or under the top wing skin
overhang?
>>
December 03, 1999 - December 07, 1999
RV-Archive.digest.vol-hl