RV-Archive.digest.vol-hq
December 30, 1999 - January 03, 2000
> Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY (1995 RV6 sold after 4 years & 470 hrs) EAA
> Tech Counselor # 3726
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: airbox length |
>
>I noticed that my airbox was already cut to the length shown on the plans,
>so I didn't cut it. Well, after I finished it, and put the cowl on, there
>is about a 1" gap between the scoop and the front of the airbox. How the
>heck am I going to glass in the tunnel to the airbox now? Should I just use
>the existing tunnel that is on the scoop?
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>http://members.home.net/rv8er
>Finish Kit
>
Here's an article I wrote a few years ago about that very problem.
>INSTALLING VAN'S AIR FILTER
>By John Ammeter
>Puget Sound Rvators
>
>After flying my RV-6 for 1 1/2 years without an air filter I felt it was
time to install one of Van's after market air filters. I had been
putting it off since working with fiberglass is not one of my favorite
pastimes; in fact, one could say I built an aluminum airplane solely
because of my phobia about fiberglass and the problems with resins.
>
>Recently, I was flying up the river valley towards Arlington airport
when I heard a loud "bang" and saw a blur of feathers fly over the
canopy. After landing, I found the remnants of the other bird about 4
inches away from the air inlet to the engine. Luckily, it had not
entered the air inlet. Since I did not have an air filter, the bird
would have ended up in the venturi of the carburetor. That would have
stopped the engine. RV's are excellent aircraft but do not compare
well with most sailplanes. If I had had an air filter installed the
bird remnants would have been contained in the air filter box.
>
>Van's instructions for the air filter assembly are on a par with most
of his instructions. He always assumes I should know more than I do.
After reading the instruction sheets over for the fourth or fifth time
I felt I was ready to tackle the job. I wasn't worried about the
aluminum part of the installation but, unfortunately, I had to modify
the fiberglass cowling. First I glued a foam block in the canopy in
the air intake. This foam block allowed me to form a streamlined
intake for the air box which holds the air filter.
>
>After installing the lower cowling back on the aircraft along with the
upper cowling I was able to cut away the foam using a hacksaw blade
and a rough cut file and form a streamlined tunnel from the cowling to
the air intake on the air box. Now all I had to do was fiberglass the
inside of the tunnel. Easier said than done. Anytime fiberglass gets
within reach of me I break out in a cold sweat. How was I going to be
able to glass the inside of this tunnel and get it smooth at the same
time?
>
>At this point inspiration hit me. Probably everybody who has worked
with fiberglass already knows this but it was a revelation to me. How
to force the fiberglass to form itself to the tunnel and to the curved
opening in the cowling? What I needed was some way to apply an even
force to the entire surface of the fiberglass. A short trip to the
local drugstore provided a supply of party balloons. The balloon
designed to look like a torso was ideal. With the small area in the
tunnel area and the two larger volumes on the outside of the tunnel
the balloon applied an almost perfect pressure to the fiberglass. The
resin didn't stick to the rubber balloon so, after curing, the balloon
was easily removed. The inside of the tunnel was smooth and the edge
of the fiberglass was smoothly bonded to the canopy. With a little
sanding the job was done and done well.
>
>I highly recommend the air filter assembly Van's Aircraft offers. It solves
the problem of air filtration without the attendant restriction of
air flow other air filters can cause.
>
I just read the above and realize that it may be difficult to
visualize what I'm trying to describe. If you have problems feel free
to contact me and I'll try to elaborate on it.
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
http://members.home.net/ammeterj/
1975 Jensen Healey
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
EAA Technical Counselor
NRA Life Member
ICQ#48819374
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airbox length |
Paul
This is one of those places that you toss the plans and make it fit. When the
propeller and spinner are in place, removal of the lower cowl requires that the
cowl drop straight down so as to clear the spinner. If the air box neck is to
long and hangs up on the cowl above the inlet snout then cowl removal will be
difficult. Cut the airbox neck as far back as necessary to clear the cowl area
above the snout and allow for easy cowl removal. Then using the foam block and
glass extend the inlet scoop back to the cut off airbox. Don't forget to
leave enough room for the carb heat door in the airbox.
Gary Zilik RV-6A N99PZ
Paul Besing wrote:
>
> I know about this, and have seen it done on the Orndorff tapes...the problem
> is that there is not enough room between the box and the scoop to fiberglass
> in a scoop and use the airseal fabric. As it sits now, there is barely
> enough room to put the airseal fabric on. Looks like some creative
> fiberglass work is going to have to take place.
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
> http://members.home.net/rv8er
> Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Pressure - Lycoming's response |
This morning I installed a "T" fitting after the Facet pump, and hooked
my auxiliary fuel tank (which includes and on/off valve) to the "T".
This allowed me to draw fuel from my normal system, or to circumvent
all the plumbing in my fuel system prior to the firewall. When I turn
"on" the auxiliary fuel tank valve, fuel can flow from the aux tank into
the fuel system in parallel with the output of the Facet pump. From
there, the fuel flows thru the gascolator and to the engine driven pump.
Tests at various altitude revealed no significant change in fuel
pressure whether I was pulling fuel from the main tanks or from the aux
tank. Therefore, neither the Facet pump nor the plumbing in the plane
(inline fuel filters, stock Van's fuel selector) is having any significant
effect on fuel pressure.
I called Lycoming Tech support and spoke to Mike Caldera, who has
helped me throughout the engine installation process. Mike's reaction
to my flight test data (1 psi at altitude) was "go fly it, I don't have a
problem with it." Mike says decreasing fuel pressure with altitude,
and especially with cold temperatures, is normal. He said it's a normal
side effect of using diaphram fuel pumps. He also noted that a
reduction of fuel pressure during high flow (high power) isn't unusual.
Mike noted that many Alaskan operators us the AN style pump rather
than the diaphram pump because of the effect of cold on the diaphram
pump. A different accessory housing is required to use the AN pump.
Mike was skeptical of Scott's observation that "All of the carb.
equipped airplanes at Van's that I fly run pressures between 4 - 6 PSI
at all times." He suggested a closer examination at altitude and when
cold. Scott, can you take some measurements from the factory bird(s)
at 10,000' or so when you get an opportunity?
My remaining challenge is to see if I can find a fuel pressure sender
that is accurate. The VDO 0-30 PSI sender I have is unsatisfactory for
low pressure measurement (0 - 1.5 psi all produce a "0" signal).
Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. I'd love to see more
fuel pressure data from flying RV's. Please mention what type of
gauge you use.
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
******
Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | empennage fairing mold |
Bob, Louis and the rest of the list.
I still have my original emp fairing that I used for the male mold process. It
is currently being used by another local builder. I think there is one more in
line after that. At that point I would be willing to mail it around until it got
lost, or better yet until I got it back.
Gary Zilik - RV-6A N99PZ
Bob Skinner wrote:
> Louis,
>
> Yes, we had one. I have no idea where it is. One builder shipped it to
> the next and the last person to receive the mold never sent it back & I
> don't know who it was. I posted to the list awhile back to try & locate it
> but received no response. What is the saying, "no good deed goes unpunished"?
> If some lister would devote their fairing to the cause and allow it to be
> used for a mold, everyone else could receive credit for their Van's
> fairing. Better yet, Van's could supply an epoxy, one layer laminate
> fairing that builders could use to obtain a better fit.
> I did have another mold but trash-canned it. Got tired of F.G.:)
>
> Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY (1995 RV6 sold after 4 years & 470 hrs) EAA
> Tech Counselor # 3726
>
> _
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sam James Wing Root Fairings |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
Do they help
> the
> cruise speed? Don't know: I've never flown without them, but I
> imagine so. I
> heard rumors they change the stall but don't know that for the same
> reason.
-
Bill B at Van's put them on his RV-4 after flying a # of years with the
standard ones.
If I recall correctly he wasn't able to measure any speed difference.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: pneumatic squeezers? |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
> >There was a post about Kunkle having them for $195, but that is not
> the
> >case. They are $325 from him and if a better deal is out there I
> would
> like
> >to take a look at it. If not, I'll buy his.
>
>
> $325 is a decent price.
>
> I bought mine for $325 5 years ago. At that time I promised myself
> (and my
> wife) that I'd sell it when the plane was done. It was difficult to
> part
> with it but I did and got $300 for it. Thats a lot of rivets
> squeezed for
> $25...!
>
I have been telling builders for years that a pneumatic squeezer with one
of Bob Avery's adjustable plungers is probably the best "extra" tool
expenditure you can make. True, it is expensive, but if you sell it
afterwards even if you don't do as well as Randall did, it is well worth
it. Depending how fast you are with a hand squeezer, the time savings
can be enormous.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow transducer mounting |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
> I called the Vision Microsystem and Flowscan people and found them
> helpful but they confirmed the need for a horizontal application.
> VM
> e-mailed me a picture of a certified application inline in the hose
> between the eng. pump and the fuel controller (as opposed to their
> instructions to place it downstream from the controller).
>
This has always been one of the things I didn't like about the VM-1000
system. It has no adjustable K-factor like most other fuel flow
computers do. As a result, what ever reading you get from the
installation is what you are stuck with. There is no way to do any
compensation adjustment.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: airbox length |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
> I noticed that my airbox was already cut to the length shown on the
> plans,
> so I didn't cut it. Well, after I finished it, and put the cowl on,
> there
> is about a 1" gap between the scoop and the front of the airbox.
> How the
> heck am I going to glass in the tunnel to the airbox now? Should I
> just use
> the existing tunnel that is on the scoop?
-
Paul, have you read the installation instructions that came with the
airbox?
There is a procedure described for doing this.
It is very important if you want your cowl to go on and off easily.
Since many builders seem to miss this point I will try an describe it.
When removing the bottom cowl the cowl needs to be lowered nearly
straight down to get it out from behind the spinner.
To do this the airbox extension must not penetrate into the front of the
scoop. It must be cut off at a point behind the opening cut in the
bottom of the cowl for the scoop so that the cowl can be lowered straight
down without catching on the extension of the air box.
I don't know if this makes sense but I think it will if you look at it
closely.
One mistake a lot of builders make is doing all of this fabrication work
with the propeller and spinner back plate removed. The cowl is very easy
to remove and install without the spinner back plate. The airbox
instructions explain how to use the little block of foam that comes in
the kit as a form for laying up the fiberglass to make the extension.
First the airbox extension needs to be cut back far enough that it clears
the cowl when it is put on and off. Then measure the distance from the
scoop inlet to the front edge of the airbox extension
I usually then shape the foam just enough to get it to push tightly into
the front of the scoop. Then cut the block to the proper length so that
it will fit between the airbox extension and the scoop inlet Then I use
just a little bit of bondo to bond the block in place. Put the cowl on.
Plunge a hacksaw blade through the center of the block. Start sawing
your way around to remove the center area of the block. You can then use
the blade to cut around the entire parameter, following the scoop inlet
and the airbox extension inlet. This will give you a smooth transition
from the shape of the scoop inlet to the shape of the airbox inlet. You
can use some 100 grit sandpaper to do any final smoothing / shaping.
Remove the cowl (being careful not to damage the foam). Lay up one layer
of glass on the interior of the foam block, lapping it onto the scoop
inlet. After it hardens, carefully remove all of the foam and bondo.
Sand the interior area of the scoop on the inside to promote a good bond
and lay up 2 more layers of glass on the inside of the cowl (around the
outside of the tube extension that you just formed). Lap these layers on
to the nose portion of the scoop so that everything gets well bonded
together.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick or Vicki Sipp" <rsipp(at)ismi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle Quadrant |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 9:57 PM
Subject: RV-List: Throttle Quadrant
Tues night Norman Hunger wrote:
> Here's a company that makes throttle quadrants for certified aircraft.
This
> page has two models, the top is for a turbo-prop twin and the bottom would
> be suitable for an RV. Let the page load for awhile as there are lots of
> pictures.
Another possibility: I purchased the appropriate three engine control
quadrant knobs from piper. They fit on Van's quadrant assy with some minor
modification. The levers were bent to provide good clearance and
separation. Works fine.
Dick Sipp
RV4 N250DS
180 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> |
If memory serves correct, there is a serious warning in your manual against
use of ordinary props of production aircraft.
I believe Van's advice is NOT to use these prop's, because these have not
been designed for the high cruise-speeds RV's easily achieve.
I believe there is a distinct possibility of blade separation.
marcel de ruiter
G-RVMJ/RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinner(at)vcn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: empennage fairing mold |
>Are you saying that you would make the mold if someone donated it? I have
>not yet touched mine, and would be willing to donate mine for the cause,
>especially if I ended up with a better fairing.
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>http://members.home.net/rv8er
>Finish Kit
Paul,
Sorry. I stay as far away from fiberglass as possible. After years of
working with the stuff, I evidently developed a sensetivity to it. You can
easily accomplish the task of making a male mold. Not much to it. I
bonded some wood scraps to Van's fairing with bondo to strengthen the
fairing and to provide a method of clamping in a vise. One piece of wood
runs lengthwise so the "mold" can be clamped in a vise. Then, you need to
sand the gelcoat with fine sandpaper. I used 360 and finer and wet sanded.
Then, it's a simple matter to coat the fairing with mold release wax or
PVA release agent and lay up your one-layer epoxy laminate.
Regards,
Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY (1995 RV6 sold after 4 years & 470 hrs) EAA
Tech Counselor # 3726
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: airbox length |
I think possibly too much emphasis has been placed on having a perfect fit
between the airbox and the airscoop. I say this after over 6 years of
flying my RV6 and trying to track down a vibration/roughness??(conical
mount) and not knowing what or where to look for it. Firstly, I had the
wrong engine mounts, secondly I have found each time I take my bottom cowl
off, I file off a little bit more of the inside of the oval fiberglass air
intake that contacts the rubber gasket between the airbox and the intake. I
am sure that it is a tiny bit better each time, even though my wife tells me
it's all between my ears and I blow it out my ass! Remember that the engine
moves on it's mounts while the cowl is basically rigid, and any small
differences in movement that far out will be transmitted right down the
fuselage. I found a couple of small worn spots on the rubber gasket to
indicate some rubbing/chafing. I have no scientific proof, only a gut
feeling that this is correct. My bird is getting pretty smooth.
Happy New Year to all on the list.
Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH
Salmon Arm B.C. First flight Sept. 8, 1993
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)home.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: airbox length
>
>I know about this, and have seen it done on the Orndorff tapes...the
problem
>is that there is not enough room between the box and the scoop to
fiberglass
>in a scoop and use the airseal fabric. As it sits now, there is barely
>enough room to put the airseal fabric on. Looks like some creative
>fiberglass work is going to have to take place.
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>http://members.home.net/rv8er
>Finish Kit
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick or Vicki Sipp" <rsipp(at)ismi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Pressure - Lycoming's response |
> Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. I'd love to see more
> fuel pressure data from flying RV's. Please mention what type of
> gauge you use.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim Lewis
Tim:
I am using the VM1000 system with their sensors in a stock fuel system
configuration 4 with a carburated O-320. Initially the fuel pressure
readings were randomly unstable but the engine always ran fine and flow
checks showed ample flow through the electric pump.
The pressure sensor was initially teed into the mechanical pump outlet. A
call to Vision confirmed what was in their manual...the sensor should not be
mounted directly to the engine. I moved the sensor to the engine mount,
mounted with an adel clamp, fuel pressures are now stable at 4-6 psi with or
without the electric pump.
As others have mentioned I don't pay that much attention the fuel pressure
during cruise but I will fly again soon as see what it does at higher
altitudes and colder temps. If I remember correctly Vision said the sensors
are effected by vibration when mounted directly to the engine.
Dick Sipp
RV4 N250DS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H. Martin Sutter" <hmsutter(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid Autopilot Servo Mounting- Isolation Mounts |
----- Original Message -----
From: Norman Hunger <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 8:22 PM
Subject: RV-List: Navaid Autopilot Servo Mounting- Isolation Mounts
>
> The Navaid Devices Autopilot wing leveler servo mounts on a tray in my
RV6A.
> The instructions show it being fastened to the tray by four isolation
> mounts. Does any one know where to find small isolation mounts? The
smallest
> I can find are rated at 10 lbs each (ACS) and are much too big. Can the
> servo mount directly to the tray? I'm still waiting to hear back from an
> email I sent to the factory.
>
> Thank-you,
> Norman Hunger
>
Yes it can. I mounted mine and four others directly to the tray and they
work fine. 1,550hrs on mine.
Martin Sutter N868Cm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airbox length |
yeah..I did read them, and went by the instructions. The box was already
cut to length per the dimensions, and I already put the carb heat door in,
so cutting it was not an option. I have had the spinner plate on too, so I
am aware of the clearance problem when the cowl drops. It just looks like
the fiberglass lay up will be pretty short (like 1/2").
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott R McDaniels" <smcdaniels(at)juno.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: airbox length
>
>
> > I noticed that my airbox was already cut to the length shown on the
> > plans,
> > so I didn't cut it. Well, after I finished it, and put the cowl on,
> > there
> > is about a 1" gap between the scoop and the front of the airbox.
> > How the
> > heck am I going to glass in the tunnel to the airbox now? Should I
> > just use
> > the existing tunnel that is on the scoop?
> -
> Paul, have you read the installation instructions that came with the
> airbox?
> There is a procedure described for doing this.
> It is very important if you want your cowl to go on and off easily.
> Since many builders seem to miss this point I will try an describe it.
>
> When removing the bottom cowl the cowl needs to be lowered nearly
> straight down to get it out from behind the spinner.
> To do this the airbox extension must not penetrate into the front of the
> scoop. It must be cut off at a point behind the opening cut in the
> bottom of the cowl for the scoop so that the cowl can be lowered straight
> down without catching on the extension of the air box.
> I don't know if this makes sense but I think it will if you look at it
> closely.
> One mistake a lot of builders make is doing all of this fabrication work
> with the propeller and spinner back plate removed. The cowl is very easy
> to remove and install without the spinner back plate. The airbox
> instructions explain how to use the little block of foam that comes in
> the kit as a form for laying up the fiberglass to make the extension.
> First the airbox extension needs to be cut back far enough that it clears
> the cowl when it is put on and off. Then measure the distance from the
> scoop inlet to the front edge of the airbox extension
> I usually then shape the foam just enough to get it to push tightly into
> the front of the scoop. Then cut the block to the proper length so that
> it will fit between the airbox extension and the scoop inlet Then I use
> just a little bit of bondo to bond the block in place. Put the cowl on.
> Plunge a hacksaw blade through the center of the block. Start sawing
> your way around to remove the center area of the block. You can then use
> the blade to cut around the entire parameter, following the scoop inlet
> and the airbox extension inlet. This will give you a smooth transition
> from the shape of the scoop inlet to the shape of the airbox inlet. You
> can use some 100 grit sandpaper to do any final smoothing / shaping.
> Remove the cowl (being careful not to damage the foam). Lay up one layer
> of glass on the interior of the foam block, lapping it onto the scoop
> inlet. After it hardens, carefully remove all of the foam and bondo.
> Sand the interior area of the scoop on the inside to promote a good bond
> and lay up 2 more layers of glass on the inside of the cowl (around the
> outside of the tube extension that you just formed). Lap these layers on
> to the nose portion of the scoop so that everything gets well bonded
> together.
>
>
> Scott McDaniels
> North Plains, OR
> These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
> reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Pressure |
>You might check your fule tank vent lines if you have not already done so.
>If partially plugged you might be trying to overcome a negative pressure
>differential in the tank.
My limited knowledge of fluid dynamics says that any snaking around of the
fuel lines, especially using 90 degree fittings and such, will restrict the
flow. Even with a "stock" set-up there is some variation in the number and
type of fittings and other components that could effect this. I think it
would be helpful if people reporting their readings would include
information on the number and type of fittings, filters etc. they have.
On my plane with either tank selected the fuel has to go through 3 90 degree
fittings and 4 45 degree fittings as well as some straight ones (and the
gascolator, fuel selector, and flow sensor). I also have small pieces of
screen door type screen glued to both vent fittings which might effect the
pressure...? Most of the time that my boost pump is off, the gauge is
reading just above 1/2 PSI. In spite of this I've never had the engine
falter, including during steep climbout tests at sea level with the boost
pump off.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~50 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Pressure - Lycoming's response |
Tim Lewis wrote:
> Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. I'd love to see more
> fuel pressure data from flying RV's. Please mention what type of
> gauge you use.
Tim, I appreciate the efforts you have made to investigate the fuel
pressure readings you have observed.
My RV-6 (RMI uMonitor with 0-10 bar sensor, standard Van's fuel system
with gascolator) behaves in a very similar manner to what you have
described. One of the local A&P's told me that I could expect to see
lower pressures as fuel demand increased and higher pressures when
demand was lower (exactly what Lycoming told you). I am running a new
fuel pump, the lines are clear, the gascolator is clean, the vents are
oriented properly, and the engine has never sagged, so I have just
assumed that the fuel system is healthy even though there are sometimes
low readings during slow, high-power climbs.
Enjoy your test flights!
Sam Buchanan
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan E. Files" <BFiles(at)corecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable Length Question... |
Matt,
I have found a few bad ACS vernier controls. They are not a bad unit but I
have gotten some bad ones... Check out the operation before installing...
could save you some time.
**** Bryan E. Files ****
Ever Fly Maintenance
Palmer, Alaska
A&P, IA, FAA Safety Counselor
mailto:BFiles(at)corecom.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 12:50 PM
Subject: RV-List: Cable Length Question...
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> I'm working on the engine controls on my RV-4 and have a question
> regarding cable lengths. I am mounting the Mixture control and Prop
> control on bulkhead F402BL and am wondering if anyone could give me the
> cable length requirements for each of these? The engine is Van's
> O360A1A with standard carb and either a Woodward or McCauley rear
> mounted prop governor. I don't have the engine mounted yet but would
> like to purchase the Mixture and Prop Vernier controls. ACS shows the
> A-750 in standard lengths of 3'/4'/5'/6'/7'/8'. Will one of these work
> or do I need a 'special' length?
>
> Thanks for the help,
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-4 Builder #1763
>
>
> --
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GLPalinkas(at)aol.com |
Lister/Wizards/Scott McD/Electric Bob (or anyone who can answer)
Is a battery charger basically a big power supply and can I use it to test my
lighting systems/flaps, etc. on the aircraft as they are installed? My Sears
battery charger (8/2 amps) holds a steady 13 volts (no load condition)
according to my meter (Fluke 43).
How about avionics stuff. Is it feasible to use a battery charger or are they
not regulated enough?
Thanks to all and a Happy New Year.
Gary Palinkas
Parma, Ohio
RV6 QB panel stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net |
| Subject: | Re: Carbon Monoxide Detector |
This subject came up not too long ago. Someone suggested a good site to get
more info:
>>>Check out: http://www.avweb.com/articles/codetect.html
The article spells out the effect of CO and also gives actual numbers (of
whatever unit CO is measured in) and how long you have before becomming
incapcitated.
A. VU
RV-6
N985VU
>
>All the previous traffic assumes we are standing on the ground. At cruise
>altitude in particular, CO poisoning becomes much more serious. Alcohol,
>smoking, CO poisoning, altitude; each limits the bodies ability to absorb
>oxygen. Combine any two and "see" what happens. I said "see" because
>reduced visual acuity is one of the first symptoms.
>Paul
>-----Original Message-----
>From: dann mann <aquila33(at)webtv.net>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 5:31 PM
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Carbon Monoxide Detector
>
>
>>
>>What is the effect of CO if you inhale small amounts. Does it make you
>>lose concentration or do you feel euphoric?
>>Thanks
>>Dan
>>
>>
>
>
>NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | VP4SkyDoc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Carbon Monoxide Detector |
Paul is right, as were most of the other responders. Altitude not only
compounds the effects of CO, but the lower PaO2 also makes it easier for the
CO to bind to the hemoglobin and more difficult to remove. The effects will
be pretty much identical to those of hypoxia: poor vision (especially night
vision) being some of the first, euphoria, drowsiness, hyperventilation or no
symptoms at all until it is too late. You can think of it as raising your
"density atlitude" :-) , but the CO doesn't leave your system if it cools off
or you descend.
Dave Leonard
i>
> The previous traffic assumes we are standing on the ground. CO poisoning
is
> much more serious at altitude. Alcohol, smoking, CO, altitude; each
> restricts the bodies ability to absorb oxygen, Combine any two wouldn't be
> fun. For night flyers remember one of the FIRST symptoms is loss of visual
> acuity.
> Paul
> -
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | VP4SkyDoc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Power Supply |
In a message dated 12/30/1999 3:28:01 PM Tokyo Standard Time,
GLPalinkas(at)aol.com writes:
> Is a battery charger basically a big power supply and can I use it to test
my
>
> lighting systems/flaps, etc. on the aircraft as they are installed? My
Sears
>
> battery charger (8/2 amps) holds a steady 13 volts (no load condition)
> according to my meter (Fluke 43).
>
> How about avionics stuff. Is it feasible to use a battery charger or are
> they
> not regulated enough?
>
Yes, most battery chargers are an excellent source of DC power for testing
stuff including avionics. However, some of them regulate themselves in an
on/off cycle to prevent overcharging the battery. Some of the cheaper ones
may work even better as they aren't regulated this way. Try it and see, you
wont hurt anything. I also found that the powersupply to my laptop put out a
nice 3A at 18V which is nice as the el cheapo battery charger can only crank
out 1 amp then the voltage drops.
Dave Leonard
6QB
Mazda 13B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | VP4SkyDoc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow transducer mounting |
In a message dated 12/30/1999 4:09:14 AM Tokyo Standard Time,
TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net writes:
>
> I called the Vision Microsystem and Flowscan people and found them
> helpful but they confirmed the need for a horizontal application. VM
> e-mailed me a picture of a certified application inline in the hose
> between the eng. pump and the fuel controller (as opposed to their
> instructions to place it downstream from the controller).
>
> Does anyone with an injected engine have any experience with this setup?
>
I think fuelscan also sells the return flow adapter which subtracts out the
fuel which is returned to the tank by the regulator (several hundred $).
This may be why they were able to mount the sensor upstream to the regulator.
I have heard of one RV6A builder who built a small header tank for the
return flow, then located the sensor upstream of the header tank.
The EFI that I am planning on using with my Mazda 13B electronically meters
the fuel as it is injected, eliminating the need for the sensor.
Good Luck,
Dave Leonard
6QB
Mazda13B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas E. Bostard" <dougacft(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List Digest: 12/22/99 |
I Just launched my RV6A on 12-17. I have the same engine/prop
combination..I ordered and eventually used the bracket van sells for the
governor. I did have to add some to the "entry end" hole but that was
just to affix the cable housing. My cable exits the firewall on the
upper pilot side through an eyball exit. They are pricey but worth it
for enabling the sharp 90 degree curve to be divide between aft of FW
and fwd of FW. then straight to the governor. Any questions, get back
to me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylorelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle Quadrant |
Joe Waltz wrote:
>
> Nice looking quadrant but I agree on it being a little pricey. Really,
> all the Vans model needs is better grips. The round knobs are very
> basic and don't provide a different feel for the different controls like
> a stock plane. Anyone know where to get some better knobs?
>
Joe, I made a 1.25" cube out of hard maple. Put black basecoat and
clearcoat on it. Works very well. Started to put white dots to look like a
dice, but decided it was too much work. You can tell by feel when you get
hold of the throttle.
Carroll Bird , Buffalo Gap, TX RV-4 56 hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power Supply |
>Is a battery charger basically a big power supply and can I use it to test
my
>lighting systems/flaps, etc. on the aircraft as they are installed? My Sears
>battery charger (8/2 amps) holds a steady 13 volts (no load condition)
>according to my meter (Fluke 43).
It depends. From what you've measured on the charger you're
considering, it appears that it might work. With any battery
charger, I'd have a battery in good condition hooked into the
system also. Battery chargers have no filtering and make
poor bench test power supplies.
We've stocked bench test grade, 13.8v regulated power supplies
from time to time. I have a one-of-a-kind 10A supply special
right now. These supplies can be used stand-alone to power up
goodies in the airplane for ground testing.
>How about avionics stuff. Is it feasible to use a battery charger or are
they
>not regulated enough?
Many of the newer chargers are much better regulated than
their ancestors of 10 years or older. As long as you have
a battery on line also to provide filtering and you're keeping
an eye on voltage then it should work for you.
Bob . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle Quadrant |
The game controller idea has merit but the switches are pretty low
quality. They are also sometimes rather flimsy but all of this could be
dealt with by upgrading the switches and maybe filling the inside with
some foam or epoxy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jah" <jah(at)abraxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle Quadrant |
Those of you looking for a nice quadrant should check
out those offered by Steen Aero Lab. They advertise in
the back of Sport Aviation in the Plans section. They
sell plans for Pitts and Skybolt's. Give them a call
and he can send you the information.
Basically, he took the design from some WWII aircraft.
It looks very well made and has a different shape and
color (red, blue, black) knob for each lever.
I'm sorry I don't have Steen's number handy but he is
easy to find in Sport Aviation.
If I can get my scanner hooked up I can upload a picture
of the quadrants to those who are interested.
Jeff Hawkins
Atlanta. Georgia
RV-8 Fuselage stuff
Original-Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Original-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:59:39 -0800
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Waltz <TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Throttle Quadrant
0A>
> Nice looking quadrant but I agree on it being a little pricey. Really,
> all the Vans model needs is better grips. The round knobs are very
> basic and don't provide a different feel for the different controls like
> a stock plane. Anyone know where to get some better knobs?
>
I hesitate to mention this, 'cause it's from a game controller, but ...
Sytech of England sells a throttle quadrant for flight simulators that is
quite exceptional in its ergonomics. It is big, angled to fit the hand
comfortably, and is loaded with switches, buttons, and knobs. I have toyed
with the idea of taking the grip off of it and putting it on a more
conventional throttle quadrant built for a real airplane, not a game
controller. But I am a long ways away from needing one, and I figure one of
these companies like Infinity will have one by the time I get ready for it.
Has anyone else seen this thing?
Terry Watson
RV-8A wings (tank sealing)
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rush <krush(at)iquest.net> |
Am I missing something or is detailed drawing info for the canopy rear
attach point and fairing junction missing from plans????? How do the two
curved aluminum parts C-666 and top strip C-653 assemble/overlap or
whatever at the rear?? I am guessing that C-653 overlaps???? Isn't there a
little fairing that covers the junction??? All the planes I have seen have
one, but I don't see it on the drawings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rush <krush(at)iquest.net> |
I really spaced it when I sent my previous message. I am building a RV-6A
and am finally building the sliding canopy, which will probably help with
the answer to my dilemma. Sorry.......
Am I missing something or is detailed drawing info for the canopy rear
attach point and fairing junction missing from plans????? How do the two
curved aluminum parts C-666 and top strip C-653 assemble/overlap or
whatever at the rear?? I am guessing that C-653 overlaps???? Isn't there a
little fairing that covers the junction??? All the planes I have seen have
one, but I don't see it on the drawings.
Larry, #24509 RV-6A finish stuff(saved canopy until almost last)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Power Supply |
| From: | Carl Froehlich <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
Battery chargers produce "unfiltered" DC current. What you have is
simply a very dirty power supply with unknown AC voltage peaks. If you
use it on any avionics (which I don't recommend) expect to hear all sorts
of 60 hz (and harmonics) hum. You may want to look at the AC output of
the charger to see how bad the peak voltages are.
If you must use this as a power supply, at least float a battery on it.
I have done this a couple of times in a pinch. It works but you still
get a lot of 60 hz hum.
Real recommendations:
- Use the charger to keep an old battery alive long enough to do
your testing (take the charger off when using the battery).
- Buy or borrow a real power supply. New 20 amp regulated supplies
go for under $100.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (fuselage)
Vienna, VA
>Lister/Wizards/Scott McD/Electric Bob (or anyone who can answer)
>
>Is a battery charger basically a big power supply and can I use it to test
>my
>lighting systems/flaps, etc. on the aircraft as they are installed? My Sears
>battery charger (8/2 amps) holds a steady 13 volts (no load condition)
>according to my meter (Fluke 43).
>
>How about avionics stuff. Is it feasible to use a battery charger or are
>they
>not regulated enough?
>
>Thanks to all and a Happy New Year.
>
>Gary Palinkas
>Parma, Ohio
>RV6 QB panel stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable Length Question... |
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> I'm working on the engine controls on my RV-4 and have a question
> regarding cable lengths. I am mounting the Mixture control and Prop
> control on bulkhead F402BL and am wondering if anyone could give me the
> cable length requirements for each of these? The engine is Van's
> O360A1A with standard carb and either a Woodward or McCauley rear
> mounted prop governor. I don't have the engine mounted yet but would
> like to purchase the Mixture and Prop Vernier controls. ACS shows the
> A-750 in standard lengths of 3'/4'/5'/6'/7'/8'. Will one of these work
> or do I need a 'special' length?
>
> Thanks for the help,
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-4 Builder #1763
>
Matt:
I hope I might be able to help since I have just completed this area on my
RV-4 (carb 0-360-A1A with Woodward prop gov). I built a custom throttle
quadrant for throttle, prop, and mixture controls, but I still used bulkhead
402 through which the cables passed and were secured before hooking up the
quadrant. The throttle and mixture controls I used were Van's p/n CT-184-55
which were the proper length. They are routed to exit the firewall in the
lower RH corner of the "battery box" area, throttle above and mixture below.
These lead through Van's control bracket, p/n VA-149-1-PC which attaches
above the carb.
The prop control I had to have custom built. It is 37.5" inches long end to
end (remember this is going to a quadrant). It would then be Van's p/n
CT-184-VTT-2-37.5. This cable exits the firewall on the LHS and makes a 90
degree turn to the right to pass through Van's governor bracket VA-153-PC
and to the prop governor arm.
The carb heat control (which is Van's CT A-470) will pass through the
firewall in the lower RH corner of the "prop gov cutout" on the firewall and
head down to the air box.
Hope this makes sense. Write me off list if not.
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
RV-4 engine hookup
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Burton <dburton(at)foxinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Power Supply |
>
>
> Real recommendations:
> - Use the charger to keep an old battery alive long enough to do
> your testing (take the charger off when using the battery).
Good advise. Don't risk your avionics.
> - Buy or borrow a real power supply.
A great source for regulated power supplies is:
http://www.mcmelectronics.com
I've purchased a lot of stuff from these guys over the years and have been
happy with their service and the quality of what I ordered.
> New 20 amp regulated supplies
> go for under $100.
Where?
Dave Burton
>
>
> Carl Froehlich
> RV-8A (fuselage)
> Vienna, VA
>
> >Lister/Wizards/Scott McD/Electric Bob (or anyone who can answer)
> >
> >Is a battery charger basically a big power supply and can I use it to test
> >my
> >lighting systems/flaps, etc. on the aircraft as they are installed? My Sears
> >battery charger (8/2 amps) holds a steady 13 volts (no load condition)
> >according to my meter (Fluke 43).
> >
> >How about avionics stuff. Is it feasible to use a battery charger or are
> >they
> >not regulated enough?
> >
> >Thanks to all and a Happy New Year.
> >
> >Gary Palinkas
> >Parma, Ohio
> >RV6 QB panel stuff
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Navaid Autopilot Servo Mounting- Isolation Mounts |
Hey Norman: If you look at the instructions closely that come from Navaid
they do not recommend the use of isolation mounts. They say it is better to
hard mount to the servo mounting plate (apparently regardless of what the
example shows).
Harry Crosby
RV-6 finally out of the fuselage jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagent.com> |
>
>...RV-6A...sliding canopy..
> Am I missing something or is detailed drawing info
>for the canopy rear attach point and fairing junction
>missing from plans????? How do the two curved
>aluminum parts C-666 and top strip C-653 assemble/overlap
>or whatever at the rear??
Larry, when I did mine, I trimmed the two curved rear skirts to miss the
track by 1/8" or so. I bought one of Gary VanRemortel's little "slider rail
fairings" for an outrageous $10 (you'll have to see if he is back yet from
his year in Tahiti living off his fairing income). The top strip comes
under the fairing and is captured by it if I recall correctly.
Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA 727MF (reserved)
RV-6A Engine baffle / plenum / cowl
Pres. / Newsletter Editor: Bay Area RVators
http://www.skybound.com/BARV
http://www.aftershock.org/rv.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator |
In a message dated 12/30/1999 3:24:11 PM Central Standard Time,
rv8er(at)home.com writes:
<<
Sorry for the off topic email, but I figured some of you may have experience
with MS Flight Simulator 2000. So if it bothers you, delete this message
now, and keep the flames off list!
I just received this for Christmas, and was debating on exchanging it for
something useful. I was kind of bored with flight simulators in the past,
but before I take it back, do any of you like the 2000 version? Is it still
as hokey as it used to be?
>>
I like it, but then again i havent used any other flight simulator. But its
nice to fly the extra 300 to give me some idea of what my f-1 rocket will be
like. Also the landmarks are very good for the airport i fly out of which is
Wauotoma, WI (Y50). So take my liking it with a grain of salt since i
cant compare it to anything
Chris Wilcox
F-1 Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: airbox length |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
>
> yeah..I did read them, and went by the instructions. The box was
> already
> cut to length per the dimensions, and I already put the carb heat
> door in,
> so cutting it was not an option. I have had the spinner plate on
> too, so I
> am aware of the clearance problem when the cowl drops. It just
> looks like
> the fiberglass lay up will be pretty short (like 1/2").
>
-
If you can not cut back the air box extension because of where you
located the carb heat door, you will likely have a lot of frustrating
time putting the cowl bottom on and off, and it will be nearly impossible
to keep from tearing up the paint against the back of the spinner.
1/2 " sounds quite short. I think it usually takes at least about 1 1/2
"
and probably a little more to allow clearance for the air box extension
to miss getting caught in the scoop.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator |
I do enjoy FS2000. It contains over 20,000+ airports, of which most seem to
be quite accurate. The elevations of the mountain west are also very
accurate. You can follow the road system & recognize the terrain.
The downside ------- it takes a PIII600 or better to run it with fluid
motion, photo-real graphic textures, & the additional elevation points.
Mountains can either look great with excellent textures or more like hills
----- depending on your system. Some run it with PII450's but complain of
stutter & low frame rates. I use a PIII600
Larry Adamson RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Nolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator |
It's still as hokie as it used to be. Trade it for anything. Anything's got
to be better than what I'm seeing.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinner(at)vcn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airbox length |
>yeah..I did read them, and went by the instructions. The box was already
>cut to length per the dimensions, and I already put the carb heat door in,
>so cutting it was not an option. I have had the spinner plate on too, so I
>am aware of the clearance problem when the cowl drops. It just looks like
>the fiberglass lay up will be pretty short (like 1/2").
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>http://members.home.net/rv8er
>Finish Kit
Paul,
Can you shorten the nose on the FAB and re-mount the carb heat door
farther aft? I think this might solve some future problems for you.
Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY (1995 RV6 sold after 4 years & 470 hrs) EAA
Tech Counselor # 3726
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NSCARRICK(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator |
take me of this mailing list please
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagent.com> |
| Subject: | Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator |
>
>I just received this for Christmas, and was debating
>on exchanging it for something useful. I was kind of
>bored with flight simulators in the past, but before I
>take it back, do any of you like the 2000 version?
>Is it still as hokey as it used to be?
I just ordered FS 2000 Pro Edition for myself. The Professional Edition
includes a Mooney Bravo and a King Air 350, six more cities, and most
importantly for me: additional stuff for IFR training and practice and an
instrument panel editor. FlightSafety will release an add-on soon for FS
2000 called AviatorPro which has IFR scenarios. I'll be starting to work on
my instrument rating soon, so I figure it can only help!
Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA 727MF (reserved)
RV-6A Engine baffle / plenum / cowl
Pres. / Newsletter Editor: Bay Area RVators
http://www.skybound.com/BARV
http://www.aftershock.org/rv.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator |
In a message dated 12/30/1999 5:05:01 PM Central Standard Time, RVHI(at)aol.com
writes:
<< I do enjoy FS2000. It contains over 20,000+ airports, of which most seem
to
be quite accurate. The elevations of the mountain west are also very
accurate. You can follow the road system & recognize the terrain.
The downside ------- it takes a PIII600 or better to run it with fluid
motion, photo-real graphic textures, & the additional elevation points.
Mountains can either look great with excellent textures or more like hills
----- depending on your system. Some run it with PII450's but complain of
stutter & low frame rates. I use a PIII600
Larry Adamson RV6A >>
its runs fine on my PII450 with 16 meg apg video card and 19" moniter and all
options available.. I have no problems, however I do have to close all those
little programs that run continuesly and sap memory. All depends on free
memory and your video card. Also so it run fine on a celeron 333 with 128
meg ram and a 16 meg video card. The big thing is free memory and your
video card.
So u dont need a PIII 600 to run any program out there at this point in time.
Software is only at the PII levels if that. The big thing is memory and
video. These are what games need.
I cant wait to see what it does on my PIII733 with 400meg htz Rdram and a 32
meg 4x APG video and a 21" moniter in surround sound. Should be very
realistic. Must be something about me that i need speed
Chris Wilcox
F-1 Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Power Supply |
| From: | Carl Froehlich <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
>A great source for regulated power supplies is:
>
>http://www.mcmelectronics.com
>
> I've purchased a lot of stuff from these guys over the years and have
>been
>happy with their service and the quality of what I ordered.
>
>> New 20 amp regulated supplies
>> go for under $100.
>
>Where?
>Dave Burton
Astron RS20A: $96.95
Go to www.hamradio.com
Many other shops and brands available as well. I've used the Astron for
several years.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (fuselage)
Vienna, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ollie Washburn" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Pressure (me too) |
My RV6-A does the same.Yesterday on flight from Pit to Tampa climbing to
8500 my press dropped to about 0 in climb.Boost pump brought press to 2 or 3
psi.I had a direct hook up to fuel press gage and now have flow indicator
and vmo 800 system.Both showed same.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick McBride <rickrv8(at)qwestinternet.net>
Sent: Monday, December 27, 1999 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Low Fuel Pressure (me too)
>
> I may as well chime also. My RV-6 with Rochester guage and sending unit
also
> did the same. It took some getting used to but I never had a bit of
problem in
> over 500 hours.
>
> Rick McBride
> -6 N523JC
> -8 80027
> Centreville, VA (right down the street from you Tim)
>
> Carroll Bird wrote:
>
> >
> > Scott Johnson wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > My 6A does the exact same thing !
> > >
> > > Scott Johnson
> > >
> >
> > So does my -4.
> >
> > Carroll Bird
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NSCARRICK(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator |
take me off your mailing list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NSCARRICK(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator |
take me off your mailing list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator |
Santa gave me a On Top ifr proficiency Simulator. It is now only $99.00
You can even read the instruments. Fly a number of different planes in-
cluding the Piper Arrow, C-172, Beech Baron Etc. It makes Microsoft
simulator look like a piece of junk. I have both and will give the
microsoft to my grandson to play with.
CW9371(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 12/30/1999 5:05:01 PM Central Standard Time, RVHI(at)aol.com
> writes:
>
> << I do enjoy FS2000. It contains over 20,000+ airports, of which most seem
> to
> be quite accurate. The elevations of the mountain west are also very
> accurate. You can follow the road system & recognize the terrain.
>
> The downside ------- it takes a PIII600 or better to run it with fluid
> motion, photo-real graphic textures, & the additional elevation points.
> Mountains can either look great with excellent textures or more like hills
> ----- depending on your system. Some run it with PII450's but complain of
> stutter & low frame rates. I use a PIII600
>
> Larry Adamson RV6A >>
> its runs fine on my PII450 with 16 meg apg video card and 19" moniter and all
> options available.. I have no problems, however I do have to close all those
> little programs that run continuesly and sap memory. All depends on free
> memory and your video card. Also so it run fine on a celeron 333 with 128
> meg ram and a 16 meg video card. The big thing is free memory and your
> video card.
> So u dont need a PIII 600 to run any program out there at this point in time.
> Software is only at the PII levels if that. The big thing is memory and
> video. These are what games need.
> I cant wait to see what it does on my PIII733 with 400meg htz Rdram and a 32
> meg 4x APG video and a 21" moniter in surround sound. Should be very
> realistic. Must be something about me that i need speed
>
> Chris Wilcox
> F-1 Rocket
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: empennage fairing mold |
Is the fairing on the 6 the same as on the RV4?
Gary Zilik wrote:
>
>
> Bob, Louis and the rest of the list.
>
> I still have my original emp fairing that I used for the male mold process.
It
> is currently being used by another local builder. I think there is one more in
> line after that. At that point I would be willing to mail it around until it
got
> lost, or better yet until I got it back.
>
> Gary Zilik - RV-6A N99PZ
>
> Bob Skinner wrote:
>
> > Louis,
> >
> > Yes, we had one. I have no idea where it is. One builder shipped it to
> > the next and the last person to receive the mold never sent it back & I
> > don't know who it was. I posted to the list awhile back to try & locate it
> > but received no response. What is the saying, "no good deed goes unpunished"?
> > If some lister would devote their fairing to the cause and allow it to be
> > used for a mold, everyone else could receive credit for their Van's
> > fairing. Better yet, Van's could supply an epoxy, one layer laminate
> > fairing that builders could use to obtain a better fit.
> > I did have another mold but trash-canned it. Got tired of F.G.:)
> >
> > Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY (1995 RV6 sold after 4 years & 470 hrs) EAA
> > Tech Counselor # 3726
> >
> > _
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator |
In a message dated 12/30/1999 6:44:43 PM Central Standard Time,
e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<< Santa gave me a On Top ifr proficiency Simulator. It is now only $99.00
You can even read the instruments. Fly a number of different planes in-
cluding the Piper Arrow, C-172, Beech Baron Etc. It makes Microsoft
simulator look like a piece of junk. I have both and will give the
microsoft to my grandson to play with.
>>
i can read all the instruments in FS 2000 pro and its has more planes than
that. Also has a extra 300 so i can fly something close to a rocket on it.
Chris WIlcox
F-1 Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard White" <chiefs(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator |
I am running it on a 233mhz... It is painfully slow, but at least it is
better than fs98.
Dick White
RV-8QB systems
Newport, OR
DNA
----- Original Message -----
From: <RVHI(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator
>
> I do enjoy FS2000. It contains over 20,000+ airports, of which most seem
to
> be quite accurate. The elevations of the mountain west are also very
> accurate. You can follow the road system & recognize the terrain.
>
> The downside ------- it takes a PIII600 or better to run it with fluid
> motion, photo-real graphic textures, & the additional elevation points.
> Mountains can either look great with excellent textures or more like hills
> ----- depending on your system. Some run it with PII450's but complain of
> stutter & low frame rates. I use a PIII600
>
> Larry Adamson RV6A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Pressure (me too) |
>
>My RV6-A does the same.Yesterday on flight from Pit to Tampa climbing to
>8500 my press dropped to about 0 in climb.Boost pump brought press to 2 or 3
>psi.I had a direct hook up to fuel press gage and now have flow indicator
>and vmo 800 system.Both showed same.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Rick McBride <rickrv8(at)qwestinternet.net>
>To:
>Sent: Monday, December 27, 1999 5:10 PM
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Low Fuel Pressure (me too)
>
>
Is your fuel flow an impellar or a pressure type? I can see where there
would not be enough back pressure to indicate pressure and the engine is
still running fine under some conditions. But if the fuel flow indicator
is an impellar type, it should indicate how much is flowing. That should
give us an indication of how healthy the engine pump is. Right or wrong?
Have a good day!
Denny Harjehausen
RV-6 EAA 1183 OR.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator |
You are only talking to the readers of the list. Regardless of the number
of requests, we, like you, can't remove you from the list.
You have to click on the list below that deals with subscriptions and follow
the directions.
The other 1000 people that are on this list can NOT remove you from getting
all your repeated requests.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
-----Original Message-----
From: NSCARRICK(at)aol.com <NSCARRICK(at)aol.com>
Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator
>
>take me of this mailing list please
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
Just received new pricing on the AIM SAS-696D Digital CO Detectors for our
Club Members!
We're now able to sell it at US$44.95 plus $3.20 for Priority Mail. Since
there is a good deal of interest in this safety issue on this list we
thought of offering the same deal to you as well. If you are interested,
let me know.
Robert Szego (518-731-6800)
Bellanca-Champion Club
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
Well,
Its time to start a new search for an RV-4 now that Ol' 8ZZ has been
changed from a Goddess of Flight to a Modern Art metal sculpture.
I am seriously looking for an RV-4 to replace the "love of my life". Rather
than place a $ value as a restriction, I will consider whatever is
available if it is of the quality and performance of 8ZZ. I am looking for
a low time AF & E 160 - 180 hp, FP or CS prop.
All the other details can be worked out if she is a well-built, straight
and true aircraft.
I will travel as needed to see a good candidate. So, don't hesitate to
write or call even if you are on the West Coast.
Louis
Louis I. Willig, RV-4 - N8ZZ
larywil(at)home.com
(610) 668-4964
Philadelphia, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey A. Hawkins" <jah(at)abraxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle Quadrants |
Listers,
Here is a picture of the throttle quadrants offered by Steen Aero
Lab for those of you interested.
This is just a picture of the quadrants.
http://www.abraxis.com/jah/quadrants1.gif
This is a scan of the whole info sheet from Steen Aero Labs. This
takes a while to view.
http://www.abraxis.com/jah/quadrants.gif
Enjoy!
Jeff Hawkins
RV-8 #563
Fuselage Stuff
Atlanta, Georgia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mel Jordan" <tmjordan(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear Leg intersection fairings |
I just received a set of the gear leg intersection fairings from Team Rocket
for my RV6A. I am just as positively impressed with these as I was with
their gear leg fairings, smooth pin-hole free surface, very well formed, fit
to the contours of my plane very well and very light weight. Having spent
the past weekend laying up an empannage fairing, I am glad to pay to have
someone else make these parts, particularly when they look and fit this
well. As pointed out previously, they only work with the Team Rocket leg
fairing, but if someone out there has not yet gotten to this point in their
project, this is a good option to consider, particularly if you don't like
filling and sanding.
Mel Jordan
Tucson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Pressure |
Joe, my Airflow fuel injection system is in series like Van's recommends.
Nowhere in the AP service/instalation manual do I find any reference to
setting it up in parallel with the mechanical pump. The pump does have a
check valve in parallel with it to allow fuel to bypass when it is off.
Dave Bristol So.CA, finishing up the paint.
Joe Waltz wrote:
>
> Interesting thread.
>
> I have an Airflow Perf. injected system and their pump package is
> plumbed parallel as some have suggested for the Facet set up. The pump
> is inside....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com> |
| Subject: | Air sander type? |
Listers,
As I contemplate my cowling installation, and final sanding of all the
fiberglass parts, I thought an air sander might be a useful addition. Of
course Harbor Freight Tools is beckoning with great selection of reasonably
priced units (www.harborfreighttools), but I don't know which type to get.
Seems like the basic types are:
A) dual action sanders (disc)
B) orbital sanders (disc)
C) jitterbug orbital sanders (pad)
D) inline sanders (pad) (already have one of these)
What will be most useful? I expect I'll also need it for sanding the
inevitable runs out of the paint to so I should probably keep that in mind.
Your wisdom and experience appreciated.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, painting the interior and dreaming of painting the exterior
www.pacifier.com/~randyl
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: empennage fairing mold |
>
> Is the fairing on the 6 the same as on the RV4?
No
Gary Zilik
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Pressure (me too) |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
>
> Is your fuel flow an impellar or a pressure type? I can see
> where there
> would not be enough back pressure to indicate pressure and the
> engine is
> still running fine under some conditions. But if the fuel flow
> indicator
> is an impellar type, it should indicate how much is flowing. That
> should
> give us an indication of how healthy the engine pump is. Right or
> wrong?
>
>
I think pressure type fuel flows are only used on fuel injection systems
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | More RV8 flight data |
Greetings folks,
I took a two hour cross country today in N94BD and have some more comments
for ya.
Keep in mind, it still doesn't have gear leg fairings or wheel pants. I'll
fit these when I'm bored of flying it. HAH! Yeah right...like that will ever
happen.
I flew in formation with Pat Kirkpatrick's RV6A, which has O-320 150hp, and
a Props Inc. prop. The airplane does have fairings, and pressure recovery
wheel pants.
We were closely matched in cruise at full power. I was able to outclimb the
-6 easily since I have 30 more horses and he had a passenger. We found
cruise to be comfortable at 2100 rpm for me and 2300 rpm for him, which
yielded 145mph groundspeed in a VERY calm and clear atmosphere. It was dead
calm on the ground at takeoff and at our destination. The reduced rpm makes
for a much quieter ride and burns less fuel. I let him get out ahead near
our destination and played catch up. I pushed it to full power, which spun
up to 2600rpm at 8500'. I finally saw 200mph! I did have to push the nose
down very slightly (I mean, just the slightest hint of forward pressure) and
sort of coax it there...just played with it and it really started moving. It
won't hold that speed in stable, level flight without the fairings, and at
full throttle, it slides back to about 170 to 180mph groundspeed. It's
moving along faster than my first two flights..for some unknown reason.
Maybe I'm just getting a better feeling for managing pitch and power
settings. My indicated speeds are way outta whack. I'm reading much lower
values. Once I can coax my boss to let me take home the precision low
pressure calibrator from work, I'll see just what's going on with the pitot
system.
I think the Sensenich 83" pitch is going to be great for this airplane. It
will not easily go over 2700rpm without having the airframe completely
cleaned up. It pulls very strong during takeoff and I want to thank the guy
who designed it. It's unlike any fixed pitch prop I've ever flown behind.
My landing setup is working out like this: 1500 rpm on downwind, 100mph,
with 10 degrees flap. Abeam numbers, flaps to 20, power to idle or just a
bit more, 80mph indicated. Down final, I work it to 75mph over the fence,
then hold it off til it quits flying just above the ground in a tail low
attitude. Without ballast in the aft hold, three pointing it is tricky. It
really likes wheelies, however.
Takeoffs are a blast! It gets airborne in a hurry, and you can hold it down
to build speed...which happens quickly. Then, a little tug on the stick and
you're blasting out of there at over 2,000 fpm. It won't hold this very
long, of course, at least not at this altitude. My cylinder head temp gets
to 500 degrees pretty quickly, so I push it over soon thereafter to get some
air moving through the fins.
Just my comments at the early stage in the game. All indications are
normal, the airframe is in fine shape, no leaks, strange noises or anything
to complain about. I LOVE THIS AIRPLANE!
See ya'll on the other side of the millenium. Personally, I'm going flying
on New Year's day. ;)
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Warren" <jwdub(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Seat Belt Attach Design |
I thought that the information on seat belt attach point design strength
would be of interest to those with RV's.
----------
> From: Scott Risan <support(at)vansaircraft.com>
> To: John Warren
> Subject: Re: Seat Belt Attach Design
> Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 9:06 AM
>
> spoke with Van on this and he said that he designs the anchor points
> to between 20-30G's. Don't know if he has the design info on it
> anymore. He also mentioned that the restraint systems have
> functioned very well in the field during accidents.. to answer your
> question then.....don't think the anchor points would be the weak
> link in the system. scott at van's
>
>
> From: "John Warren" <jwdub(at)teleport.com>
> To:
> Subject: Seat Belt Attach Design
>
> > The 16 G specification in the TSO is based on 170 lbs, but the actual
> > rating
> > of the restraint from Schroth is 3000 lbs, with the weakest link being
the
> > webbing. That's the easy part of your question. I can't attest what
Vans
> > designed the RV's for, but I suspect that it is at least the old FAR
part
> > 23
> > standards of 9G X 1.5 safety factor (13.5G). It is not only the seat
belt
> > attach points that are of interest, but also the ability of the
airframe to
> > preserve the occupant space. This is where the schroth belts help.
The
> > more stretch in the restraint, the less contained you are in the space.
> > Schroth belts are the only ones using polyseter webbing (such as used
in
> > your car)not the old nylon webbing that stretches more than twice.
> >
> > If you have any questions please feel free to keep asking.
> >
> > Dan Morris
> > President
> > Morris technologies, Inc. (610)-524-4153 www.icdc.com/~morristec
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: John Warren <jwdub(at)teleport.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 11:00 PM
> > Subject: Seat Belt Design for RV-6
> >
> >
> > > I have some questions regarding the information posted on the
HomeWing
> > web
> > > site.
> > > First you mention that the Schroth seat belts meet the new TSO C-114
> > > standards. Do you know whether the RV-6 seat belt attach point and
cable
> > > system is designed to withstand 16 g's? Also, is the 16 g rating
based
> > > upon a 170# pilot (a total of 2720#)?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for your response.
> > >
> > > jwdub(at)teleport.com
> > >
> > >
> > Can you verify what the design strength of the RV-6 seat belt attach
system
> > is? It may not make a lot of sense paying for a restraint system such
as
> > the Schroth if the attachment design is to the older standard.
> >
> > Thanks for your help!
> >
> > jwdub
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
Who makes fire proof foam? I'm looking for thin stuff like 1/2 inch to make
side panels with.
Who makes fire proof glue? Some thing that can be used to glue fabric, foam
and upholstery. Looking for some thing that works like contact cement but
doesn't flare up like the standard stuff at Home Depot.
On a different note, I have settled on Orcotek as the material to coat the
inside of my firewall, front floor under carpet, and under the seatpans. ACS
sent me a sample which I attempted to torch various ways. It passed.
Hopefully it will make my ship cooler in the summer, warmer in the winter,
and quieter at all times.
Thanks in advance,
Norman Hunger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle Quadrants |
Jeff,
Thank-you for your excellent post. This seems like the best value. Does any
one know if it has a friction adjust?
Norman
> Listers,
>
> Here is a picture of the throttle quadrants offered by Steen Aero
> Lab for those of you interested.
>
> This is just a picture of the quadrants.
> http://www.abraxis.com/jah/quadrants1.gif
>
> This is a scan of the whole info sheet from Steen Aero Labs. This
> takes a while to view.
> http://www.abraxis.com/jah/quadrants.gif
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Jeff Hawkins
> RV-8 #563
> Fuselage Stuff
> Atlanta, Georgia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas McIntyre <bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More RV8 flight data |
Great account,
What other fixed pitch props have you flown behind?
Brian Denk wrote:
>
> Greetings folks,
>
> I took a two hour cross country today in N94BD and have some more comments
> for ya.
>
> Keep in mind, it still doesn't have gear leg fairings or wheel pants. I'll
> fit these when I'm bored of flying it. HAH! Yeah right...like that will ever
> happen.
>
> I flew in formation with Pat Kirkpatrick's RV6A, which has O-320 150hp, and
> a Props Inc. prop. The airplane does have fairings, and pressure recovery
> wheel pants.
>
> We were closely matched in cruise at full power. I was able to outclimb the
> -6 easily since I have 30 more horses and he had a passenger. We found
> cruise to be comfortable at 2100 rpm for me and 2300 rpm for him, which
> yielded 145mph groundspeed in a VERY calm and clear atmosphere. It was dead
> calm on the ground at takeoff and at our destination. The reduced rpm makes
> for a much quieter ride and burns less fuel. I let him get out ahead near
> our destination and played catch up. I pushed it to full power, which spun
> up to 2600rpm at 8500'. I finally saw 200mph! I did have to push the nose
> down very slightly (I mean, just the slightest hint of forward pressure) and
> sort of coax it there...just played with it and it really started moving. It
> won't hold that speed in stable, level flight without the fairings, and at
> full throttle, it slides back to about 170 to 180mph groundspeed. It's
> moving along faster than my first two flights..for some unknown reason.
> Maybe I'm just getting a better feeling for managing pitch and power
> settings. My indicated speeds are way outta whack. I'm reading much lower
> values. Once I can coax my boss to let me take home the precision low
> pressure calibrator from work, I'll see just what's going on with the pitot
> system.
>
> I think the Sensenich 83" pitch is going to be great for this airplane. It
> will not easily go over 2700rpm without having the airframe completely
> cleaned up. It pulls very strong during takeoff and I want to thank the guy
> who designed it. It's unlike any fixed pitch prop I've ever flown behind.
>
> My landing setup is working out like this: 1500 rpm on downwind, 100mph,
> with 10 degrees flap. Abeam numbers, flaps to 20, power to idle or just a
> bit more, 80mph indicated. Down final, I work it to 75mph over the fence,
> then hold it off til it quits flying just above the ground in a tail low
> attitude. Without ballast in the aft hold, three pointing it is tricky. It
> really likes wheelies, however.
>
> Takeoffs are a blast! It gets airborne in a hurry, and you can hold it down
> to build speed...which happens quickly. Then, a little tug on the stick and
> you're blasting out of there at over 2,000 fpm. It won't hold this very
> long, of course, at least not at this altitude. My cylinder head temp gets
> to 500 degrees pretty quickly, so I push it over soon thereafter to get some
> air moving through the fins.
>
> Just my comments at the early stage in the game. All indications are
> normal, the airframe is in fine shape, no leaks, strange noises or anything
> to complain about. I LOVE THIS AIRPLANE!
>
> See ya'll on the other side of the millenium. Personally, I'm going flying
> on New Year's day. ;)
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Pressure |
Dave,
I didn't mean to say that the Airflow Perf. is plumbed in paralled with
the eng. driven pump, rather it ( the pump package) is set up to be an
independant parallel system.
IOW the fuel flows straight to the engine pump with the electric off or
through the elec pump when it is on. Plus, as you note, the pump has a
pressure relief valve that is plumbed into a run-around circuit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinner(at)vcn.com> |
RVers,
There was a post within the last couple of weeks concerning carpal
tunnel, etc. and cleco use that I had intended to reply to but lost the
message.
In my opinion, the best air cleco tool I've found is the "Speedkleek". I
bought mine several years ago at one of the Boone, Iowa RV fly-ins. It's a
bit pricey at around $200+ but is a much better tool than the cheaper,
pistol grip type tools. I've used several of the pistol grip type tools
and would just as soon use regular cleco pliers. The "Speedkleek" is
cylindrical in shape with a large button positioned in the center. This
allows you to use any finger to operate the tool. This spreads the "load"
so to speak instead of just being able to use the tip of your index finger.
The "Speedkleek" has more versitility in positioning for the same reason.
The "Speedkleek" is machined aluminum and a very nicely built tool. With
the addition of an air line swivel, it's hard to beat. I don't know who,
if anyone, sells these units, now. Hopefully, someone on the list will know.
Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY (1995 RV6 sold after 4 years & 470 hrs) EAA
Tech Counselor # 3726
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Ignition Switch Question |
I am running the wires for my ignition switch and there is a jumper that
the instructions said should be installed when using a magnetic retard
system. My engine (IO-360) has the standard mags with the impulse coupler
on the left mag. George Orndoff said to install it, another A & P said it
is not needed.
What is its purpose and should I install it?
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL Reserved
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
(570)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Power Supply |
I went and bought a new battery for my lawn tractor and put the old one in
the airplane for wiring and testing. I will buy an aircraft battery when I
want to start the engine even if it will not be very good when I want to
fly it. Most power sources are over $100.00 and do not deliver the
amperage. You can keep your battery in good shape for at least two years
by charging it once a month.
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL Reserved
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
(570)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air sander type? |
Get a Dual Action sander..they have a much lighter touch, and you can get
much straighter body work done...a good friend of mine is a body man by
trade, and he swears by them..I don't have one, but just steal his on
occasion..also, a higher quality one will use much less air..you can get the
stick on circular sand paper (3M) and just peel one off and stick on
another...I hate cutting sandpaper for my pad sander.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 8:27 PM
Subject: RV-List: Air sander type?
>
> Listers,
>
> As I contemplate my cowling installation, and final sanding of all the
> fiberglass parts, I thought an air sander might be a useful addition. Of
> course Harbor Freight Tools is beckoning with great selection of
reasonably
> priced units (www.harborfreighttools), but I don't know which type to get.
> Seems like the basic types are:
>
> A) dual action sanders (disc)
> B) orbital sanders (disc)
> C) jitterbug orbital sanders (pad)
> D) inline sanders (pad) (already have one of these)
>
> What will be most useful? I expect I'll also need it for sanding the
> inevitable runs out of the paint to so I should probably keep that in
mind.
>
> Your wisdom and experience appreciated.
>
> Randy Lervold
> RV-8, #80500, painting the interior and dreaming of painting the exterior
> www.pacifier.com/~randyl
> Home Wing VAF
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Schroth Seat Belts |
Here's the link to an outfit that sells Schroth seat belts. The owner has an
RV6.
http://www.icdc.com/~morristec/
Click on SEATBELTS,
then STANDARD RESTRAINTS,
then scroll down to and click on the purple 5 POINT
-Claims to be the lightest weight belt.
-Nice center buckle that is engineered to be easier to release when loaded
but hard to release when not loaded. Read the site.
-Very novel idea of a "Y comfort collar" that spreads the two shoulder belts
apart a bit behind your neck. Designed for the single point shoulder strap
system that the RV6 uses.
-The shoulder straps can be released without undoing the other belts during
flight.
Happy new century!
Norman Hunger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick McBride <rickrv8(at)qwestinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Cleco tool |
Bob,
Speedcleek has not been manufactured for a number of years. It was made by a
gentleman that used to live in the Chicago area. After he tried to patent the
design he found that existing patents would not allow him to do so. It was
shortly after that that he quit building the Speedcleek. Since then he has moved
to Indiana, sold his RV-6 project and virtually got out of aviation (too bad,
he's a great guy).
As an aside, I bought the US Tool cleco tool and find it works very well. It
takes a little getting used to but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. It sure
makes building much easier. Plus it is considerably lighter than the Speekcleek.
Rick McBride
Bob Skinner wrote:
>
> RVers,
>
> There was a post within the last couple of weeks concerning carpal
> tunnel, etc. and cleco use that I had intended to reply to but lost the
> message.
> In my opinion, the best air cleco tool I've found is the "Speedkleek". I
> bought mine several years ago at one of the Boone, Iowa RV fly-ins. It's a
> bit pricey at around $200+ but is a much better tool than the cheaper,
> pistol grip type tools. I've used several of the pistol grip type tools
> and would just as soon use regular cleco pliers. The "Speedkleek" is
> cylindrical in shape with a large button positioned in the center. This
> allows you to use any finger to operate the tool. This spreads the "load"
> so to speak instead of just being able to use the tip of your index finger.
> The "Speedkleek" has more versitility in positioning for the same reason.
> The "Speedkleek" is machined aluminum and a very nicely built tool. With
> the addition of an air line swivel, it's hard to beat. I don't know who,
> if anyone, sells these units, now. Hopefully, someone on the list will know.
>
> Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY (1995 RV6 sold after 4 years & 470 hrs) EAA
> Tech Counselor # 3726
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Schroth Seat Belts |
--- Norman Hunger wrote:
>
>
> Here's the link to an outfit that sells Schroth seat
> belts. The owner has an
> RV6.
>
> http://www.icdc.com/~morristec/
>
> Click on SEATBELTS,
> then STANDARD RESTRAINTS,
> then scroll down to and click on the purple 5 POINT
>
> -Claims to be the lightest weight belt.
> -Nice center buckle that is engineered to be easier
> to release when loaded
> but hard to release when not loaded. Read the site.
> -Very novel idea of a "Y comfort collar" that
> spreads the two shoulder belts
> apart a bit behind your neck. Designed for the
> single point shoulder strap
> system that the RV6 uses.
> -The shoulder straps can be released without undoing
> the other belts during
> flight.
>
> Happy new century!
> Norman Hunger
From the WEB page, these belts look like the AMSafe
and Pacific Scientific belts used on the $10,000 IPECO
seats that Boeing uses in the cockpit.
I have a set of Pacific Scientific buckles. They were
custom belted for my -6 by Belt Master in Torrance CA.
Belt Master does belts for the airlines out of LAX.
Wings and Wheels also sells Pacific Scientific to the
glider croud. http://www.wingsandwheels.com/
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
So. CA, USA
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power Supply |
Jim Cimino wrote:
>
>
> I went and bought a new battery for my lawn tractor and put the old one in
> the airplane for wiring and testing. I will buy an aircraft battery when I
> want to start the engine even if it will not be very good when I want to
> fly it.
Save your money. If you have a 320 or low compression O360, the lawn
tractor battery will start it just fine. I recently replaced my 4 year
old lawn tractor battery in my -4 because it was getting a little
'tired' didn't want to get stuck away
from home. It had at least 150 hours flying time.
I do acro frequently, & the only corrosion I've got is on the unpainted
aluminum hold-down bar.
Charlie
flying -4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Cleco tool |
>As an aside, I bought the US Tool cleco tool and find it works very well. It
>takes a little getting used to but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.
It sure
>makes building much easier. Plus it is considerably lighter than the
Speekcleek.
>
>Rick McBride
>
>Bob Skinner wrote:
I bought the US Tool one also. It sure helped to remove clecos!
Have a good day!
Denny Harjehausen
RV-6 EAA 1183 OR.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dgmurray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Question |
Jim -The jumper is needed in your application. It grounds out the right
magneto during the start mode so that the left mag timing can be retarted
through the impulse coupler. I believe the impulse coupler retards the iming
to somewhere around TDC while the normal timing is 25 degrees BTDC.
Subject: RV-List: Ignition Switch Question
>I am running the wires for my ignition switch and there is a jumper that
>the instructions said should be installed when using a magnetic retard
>system. My engine (IO-360) has the standard mags with the impulse coupler
>on the left mag. George Orndoff said to install it, another A & P said it
>is not needed.
>What is its purpose and should I install it?
>
>
>Jim Cimino
>RV-8 sn
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Airflow Perf Inj - RV-6A |
| From: | "Louis Cappucci" <N32LC(at)worldnet.att.net> |
listers,
anyone have the Airflow Performance Injector system installed on their 6A?
where did you mount the filter and boost pump? i am having a hard time
trying to find a place for them because of the prime real estate taken up by
the gear mounts. i really don't want to have to put them forward of the
firewall...
also, if you are using a fuel flow transducer, where did you put that?
thanks,
louis cappucci
rv-6a
mamaroneck, ny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Louis Cappucci" <N32LC(at)worldnet.att.net> |
listers,
i am considering a dual alternator, single battery electrical system, as
shown in the aeroelectric drawings.
is there a "weak link" only having one battery? in other words, is there a
failure mode of the battery (or wiring) which would make the alternator(s)
fail also? is it the same for PM alternators?
thanks,
louis cappucci
rv-6a
mamaroneck, ny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Question |
In a message dated 12/30/99 9:46:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jcimino(at)epix.net writes:
<< I am running the wires for my ignition switch and there is a jumper that
the instructions said should be installed when using a magnetic retard
system. My engine (IO-360) has the standard mags with the impulse coupler
on the left mag. George Orndoff said to install it, another A & P said it
is not needed.
What is its purpose and should I install it? >>
Your A&P needs to go back to school. The jumper's purpose is to disable
(ground out) the right (non-impulse coupled) mag during cranking. You should
install the jumper to make starting the engine easier and safer.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air sander type? |
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Lervold <randyl(at)pacifier.com>
Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 9:26 PM
Subject: RV-List: Air sander type?
>
>Listers,
>
>As I contemplate my cowling installation, and final sanding of all the
>fiberglass parts, I thought an air sander might be a useful addition. Of
>course Harbor Freight Tools is beckoning with great selection of reasonably
>priced units (www.harborfreighttools), but I don't know which type to get.
>Randy Lervold
>RV-8, #80500, painting the interior and dreaming of painting the exterior
>www.pacifier.com/~randyl
>Home Wing VAF
Randy,
The thing I hate most about fiberglass work is the dust created in sanding.
I like to keep my hangar clean. I have been sanding outdoors whenever
possible but winter weather interferes with that. I also have been wet
sanding to keep down the dust, but I can't find 40 or 80 open coat
wet-or-dry paper, and hand sanding is pretty slow.
A friend loaned me his Porter-Cable model 340 palm sander. It has a
piercing plate that punches about 8 holes in the sandpaper so that the dust
is sucked through the sander into an aft-mounted dust collector. This
gadget is great because it practically eliminates all sanding dust! It
sells for about $50 and the 1/3 sheet paper is either stick-on clamp on
format.
I have been able to use it on small radius contours, both convex and
concave. Recently I used it to sand the glassed-on pedestals for the
wingtip nav lights. It faired in the curves very nicely.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan E. Files" <BFiles(at)corecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Question |
Jim,
Install the jumper... Sounds as if you have an ACS switch.
**** Bryan E. Files ****
Ever Fly Maintenance
Palmer, Alaska
A&P, IA, FAA Safety Counselor
mailto:BFiles(at)corecom.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 8:09 PM
Subject: RV-List: Ignition Switch Question
>
> I am running the wires for my ignition switch and there is a jumper that
> the instructions said should be installed when using a magnetic retard
> system. My engine (IO-360) has the standard mags with the impulse coupler
> on the left mag. George Orndoff said to install it, another A & P said it
> is not needed.
> What is its purpose and should I install it?
>
>
> Jim Cimino
> RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL Reserved
> http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
> (570)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Wiza" <planejoe(at)ewol.com> |
| Subject: | Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 13:02:03 -0500 |
Friend of mine asked me to post this. RV6A, newlly overhauled endgine,tara
trans/encoder, 0320, sterba prop, well built by engineer etc. Asking 52K
call Don at 9414758404.
do not archieve
planejoe(at)ewol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Pressure (me too) |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
> Is your fuel flow an impellar or a pressure type? I can see
> where there
> would not be enough back pressure to indicate pressure and the
> engine is
> still running fine under some conditions. But if the fuel flow
> indicator
> is an impellar type, it should indicate how much is flowing. That
> should
> give us an indication of how healthy the engine pump is. Right or
> wrong?
>
>
-
Some how most of my post got dropped in cyberspace first time.
Here is the whole message.
-
I think pressure type fuel flows are only used on fuel injection systems
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David L. White" <dwhite(at)netwalk.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator |
If you're looking for an IFR program, go with Elite. It is very, very good.
IP Trainer isn't bad either, but it is more in lesson format, so if you take
IFR instruction, it may confuse you - and the IP Trainer is not recommended
for pilots with 15 hrs or more IFR training.
I have Elite and love it. Its more expensive, but the panel is excellent,
and you can set the weather any way you want to, and also set systems to
malfunction.
I received FS 2000 for Christmas, and it won't run on my son's Pentium II
450.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator |
In a message dated 12/31/1999 1:36:32 PM Central Standard Time,
dwhite(at)netwalk.com writes:
<< I received FS 2000 for Christmas, and it won't run on my son's Pentium II
450.
>>
Check your free memory and also what you have for 3d acceleration. It runs
fine on my PII450 and my celeron 400. It should run fine
Chris Wilcox
F-1 Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Morris" <morristec(at)icdc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Schroth Seat Belts |
To all,
I am the guy with the RV-6 that has the Schroth seatbelts. Wings and Wheels
is a dealer of Schroth belts for gliders, to whom I supply the belts as a
distributor. Please be welcome to visit my web page, and if you have any
further questions please feel free to ask. The pricing for RV-6/6A 4 point
restraints is $550.00 for 2 seats, and for 5 point $620.00 for 2 seats.
RV-8/8A is $560 for 4 point and $630 for 5 point. The -6's use a Y
configuration shoulder harness, and the -8's use individual shoulder straps.
Dan Morris
Morristec(at)icdc.com
610-524-4153
> > Here's the link to an outfit that sells Schroth seat
> > belts. The owner has an
> > RV6.
> >
> > http://www.icdc.com/~morristec/
> >
> Wings and Wheels also sells Pacific Scientific to the
> glider croud. http://www.wingsandwheels.com/
>
>
> ====
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> So. CA, USA
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://messenger.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | A20driver(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator |
David: The Oct-99 issue of The Aviation Consumer had an up-date on flight
sims and the best of the lot was judged to be X-Plane by Laminar Research in
Columbia,SC..You can look at it on h--w.x-plane.com...prices vary and has
been on the web for $119...Suggest you try Beyond.com if you are
interested...Good 2000!!! Jim Brown, NJ, RV-3 and 4....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
Just thought I would let everyone know that I did a little experiment. I
had Van's send me my most recent order via Priority Mail, so that I could
see the amount of freight. Well, the sticker on the package says $3.20. On
the invoice it says $4.05 (a 27% markup). Not that .85 is going to break
me, but I find that very disturbing, given that they also charged a crating
charge of $1.75. They do give us good deals on avionics and engines, but I
happen to know if another situation where Van's is making a fortune. I
ordered a fuel tank flange for Steve Davis to use for all of our fuel caps
so that he could have something to hold the caps. It was $16.67. Well, I
found out that the cap AND flange from the manufacturer costs $18. If you
want both the cap and the flange from Van's, they are $33. (an 83% markup)
Please understand that I still think Van has a great design, and overall
they are a good company do deal with. I just feel that their markups are a
little out of hand.
Go ahead and flame away if you wish, but I thought this was relevant RV
information.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Van's Profit |
No flame, but that is standard business practice. Overhead, staff, inventory,
profit, taxes, etc. I charge anywhere from a 50% to 100% markup on low priced
items that I sell. Smaller parts are usually the 100% markup. Markups go
down as the price goes up. Hardware & electronic outlets usually do the
same, as with many other companies. The manufacture usually has to rely on
the various retailers to get the product sold in enough quanity to justify
making it in the first place.
L.Adamson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Van's Profit |
In a message dated 12/31/1999 3:55:34 PM Central Standard Time,
rv8er(at)home.com writes:
<< Please understand that I still think Van has a great design, and overall
they are a good company do deal with. I just feel that their markups are a
little out of hand. >>
A great design is one thing, but I can't feel good about a company that is
marking there merchandise up 83%. I feel that's loansharking.
Carey Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Van's Profit |
These deals of Vans are a lot better than buying from wicks who charges on
the average thice as much to pkg a $4.00 part that cost them $0.50 cents
and then they add shipping. I think Vans has worked hard put togather a good
team and has a worthy product with good or better support compared to the
industry as it goes remembering everytime we call, the money for this support
has to be generated some were. My guess is you are just reveiwing some of the
hidden revenew enhancement which all goes in the large pot to keep the
product alive and fluid.
Have a Hppy New Year and lets keep on Building and flying The Famous
RV-series Have good fun and fellowship thru out the years to come
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Van's Profit |
You won't get a flame here Paul. I have been complaining about their $4.00
minimum crating charge for a while now. Every time I have ordered small
parts it's $4.00 crating plus at least $4.00 and more shipping. I had them
ship me both aft top skins (don't ask why). The crating was $4.00 and
shipping was $9.00??? It seems as if their pricing is sort of arbitrary. I
try to wait and order stuff in bulk to cut down on some the charges.
Thankfully I don't think there is any thing else I have to order from them.
Don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with Van's making a profit, but
83%. WOW!!!!!!
Cash Copeland
RV6QB doing the instrument panel and systems
In a message dated 12/31/99 9:34:19 PM GMT Standard Time, rv8er(at)home.com
writes:
<<
Just thought I would let everyone know that I did a little experiment. I
had Van's send me my most recent order via Priority Mail, so that I could
see the amount of freight. Well, the sticker on the package says $3.20. On
the invoice it says $4.05 (a 27% markup). Not that .85 is going to break
me, but I find that very disturbing, given that they also charged a crating
charge of $1.75. They do give us good deals on avionics and engines, but I
happen to know if another situation where Van's is making a fortune. I
ordered a fuel tank flange for Steve Davis to use for all of our fuel caps
so that he could have something to hold the caps. It was $16.67. Well, I
found out that the cap AND flange from the manufacturer costs $18. If you
want both the cap and the flange from Van's, they are $33. (an 83% markup)
Please understand that I still think Van has a great design, and overall
they are a good company do deal with. I just feel that their markups are a
little out of hand.
Go ahead and flame away if you wish, but I thought this was relevant RV
information.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GStorey826(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Profit |
Could not have been said better,
Happy New Year!
George
RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard White" <chiefs(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator |
Works ok on my Pentium II 233.... slow, but it works.
----- Original Message -----
From: <CW9371(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 31, 1999 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator
>
> In a message dated 12/31/1999 1:36:32 PM Central Standard Time,
> dwhite(at)netwalk.com writes:
>
> << I received FS 2000 for Christmas, and it won't run on my son's Pentium
II
> 450.
> >>
> Check your free memory and also what you have for 3d acceleration. It
runs
> fine on my PII450 and my celeron 400. It should run fine
>
> Chris Wilcox
> F-1 Rocket
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kenneth Lamar" <klwski1(at)pouch.com> |
I have available to me a 0-290D that has a 0-320 crank and high compression
pistons with 0 SMOH and new accessories for an extreamly good price, what I
need to know is will this engine work in a RV-9A ( will the engine mount
work) the builder says it has 140 hp.
Thanks for all the help
Ken
emp RV-9A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Van's pricing |
> I wouldn't mind as much if he would put some of
> that mad money into his plans and manuals.
>
This was sent to me off list, and is a GREAT point...If we had plans,
manuals and packaging ala Glasair, I would not be near as concerned.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Profit (long) |
Paul,
No flames, just the perspective of a manufacturer.
My guess is that if Van could sell Kits and no parts, no matter what the
prices, they would be much happier. (and more profitable) I doubt Vans
made a penny on the shipping @ $4.05 and the packaging at $1.75. The
employee who processed, picked it and packed it was probably making
$9.00/hour or better and the box costs something too.
What if Van took his annual clerical office and order picking expense and
divided it by the number of invoices he processes in a year and added that
to every invoice? He could lower his margins on everything and the builders
who plan, and don't screw up could buy their kits cheaper and not have to
pay for the ones who place an order every day. That part would have cost
you at least a $20.00 order charge.
A company has responsibility to 3 groups. Customers, Employees, and
Stockholders. Those companies that survive along time are the ones that are
able to balance the interests of these diverse groups. This assumes that a
company has a good product. Those which don't fade very quickly. Most
would agree, Van's has a Great product.
Few decisions management will make benefit all 3 groups. Those are the
"no-brainers." After that is gets tougher. Interestingly enough, lowering
price too much is one of the decisions that adversely all groups. The
company will cease to exist.
It is the RESPONSIBILITY of management to price their product based on it's
value, not it's cost. Sometimes it is hard to manufacture a product for a
price people will believe is a good value. Then you have to be willing to
sacrifice margins. The company must give the customers a good value to
protect the employees and the stockholders.
Management also has a responsibility to use it's revenues to insure the
continued viability of the company through R&D, investing in the plant, the
employees, and the stockholders. When competitors drive the price of a
product closer to it's costs, then the company must make a decision to lower
prices to meet the competition, or get out of the market. The great thing
about experimental aircraft is, you have the right to buy your gas caps for
your RV where ever you chose.
The real crime is when aviation manufacturers are protected by the FAA rules
which prevent competition. This allows them to charge what ever they want
without regard for the value of the product. There is a price to be paid
for that too, hence the dismal state of the General Aviation business for
the last 20 years.
The market has said pretty loudly and clearly that the customers believe
that Van is providing a good value in the Kits. The parts maybe high, I
don't know. I run a business that ships small parts sometimes, (as seldom
as possible) and I know you can't process, pack, and ship, any part for
$5.80.
Tailwinds
Doug Rozendaal
www.petroblend.com/dougr
dougr(at)petroblend.com
>
> Just thought I would let everyone know that I did a little experiment. I
> had Van's send me my most recent order via Priority Mail, so that I
Snip.......
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Van's Profit |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
> Just thought I would let everyone know that I did a little
> experiment. I
> had Van's send me my most recent order via Priority Mail, so that I
> could
> see the amount of freight. Well, the sticker on the package says
> $3.20. On
> the invoice it says $4.05 (a 27% markup). Not that .85 is going to
> break
> me, but I find that very disturbing, given that they also charged a
> crating
> charge of $1.75. They do give us good deals on avionics and
> engines, but I
> happen to know if another situation where Van's is making a fortune.
> I
> ordered a fuel tank flange for Steve Davis to use for all of our
> fuel caps
> so that he could have something to hold the caps. It was $16.67.
> Well, I
> found out that the cap AND flange from the manufacturer costs $18.
> If you
> want both the cap and the flange from Van's, they are $33. (an 83%
> markup)
>
> Please understand that I still think Van has a great design, and
> overall
> they are a good company do deal with. I just feel that their
> markups are a
> little out of hand.
>
-
Hmmm...
Paul, I thought in the past I have seen you post how tough it is to beat
most any of Van's prices anywhere else.
Maybe that was someone else.
Anyway, if you are genuenly displeased, writting a complaint to managment
would probably be of more value than grumbling on the list.
-
> Go ahead and flame away if you wish, but I thought this was relevant
> RV
> information.
-
And flame back if you feel the need, but this post wasn't intended to
even make you warm.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Van's pricing |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
> This was sent to me off list, and is a GREAT point...If we had
> plans,
> manuals and packaging ala Glasair, I would not be near as concerned.
>
If you had paid $29,000 + for your RV kit, you probably would!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: empennage fairing mold |
Louis, I have my van's fairing I didn't use. If you can't find one, e-mail
me. I was planning on returning this to Van's for credit.
Rick Caldwell
RV-6 Almost there
Melbourne, FL
>From: "Louis Cappucci" <N32LC(at)worldnet.att.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: empennage fairing mold
>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 12:28:39 -0500
>
>
>listers (and bob skinner in particular)
>
>does anyone out there have a male mold for the empennage fairing which they
>would be willing to loan to me?
>
>a while back, bob skinner posted that he might have one to be passed around
>from one builder to the next, as is commonly done with jigs, etc.
>
>bob, if you are out there, is it available? i tried mailing direct to
>"bskinr(at)trib.com" but got bounced
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Wiza" <planejoe(at)ewol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Profit |
All I have to say is just try ordering something from a Spam can govt
controlled company. Then sit back and smoke a cheap camel cig. Happy New
Year
planejoe(at)ewol.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <PASSPAT(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 31, 1999 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's Profit
>
> These deals of Vans are a lot better than buying from wicks who charges on
> the average thice as much to pkg a $4.00 part that cost them $0.50 cents
> and then they add shipping. I think Vans has worked hard put togather a
good
> team and has a worthy product with good or better support compared to the
> industry as it goes remembering everytime we call, the money for this
support
> has to be generated some were. My guess is you are just reveiwing some of
the
> hidden revenew enhancement which all goes in the large pot to keep the
> product alive and fluid.
> Have a Hppy New Year and lets keep on Building and flying The Famous
> RV-series Have good fun and fellowship thru out the years to come
>
> Pat
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lycoming 0-290D |
>
>I have available to me a 0-290D that has a 0-320 crank and high compression
>pistons with 0 SMOH and new accessories for an extreamly good price, what I
>need to know is will this engine work in a RV-9A ( will the engine mount
>work) the builder says it has 140 hp.
>
>
>Thanks for all the help
>Ken
>emp RV-9A
If it is an O-290-D2, it uses a conical mount. This is where the mounting
holes are in line with the crankshaft. You should be able to specify
that you want a conical mount when you order your finish kit. Since they
are advertising the RV-9A for the smaller hp engines, it seems like they
would make that style of mount for it. Sounds like it would be a good
choice in engines for the RV-9A. I don't think the finish kits are
available yet so a call to Vans to make sure they will fabricate a conical
mount would be a good idea.
Regards,
Tom Velvick
rv-6a finishing fuselage
Peoria, AZ USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Transistion Training in FL |
After several hints to flying RV-6 drivers and no takers in helping me get
current before my soon to come first flight, I looked for another solution
and found it. It was so good I thought I'd pass it along. 15 months ago I
flew Van's RV-6 with Mike Seager and was current then. But with the
passsage of time, I didn't feel the Champ I fly was doing any justice.
Yesterday I found a CAP 10 at Flagler County airport in Bunnel FL. This is
side by side seating, stick, taildragger, fairly short coupled tailwheel
acrobatic airplane from France. It's speed was the same as what Mike taught
me and felt very similar. The 180 hp engine had more punch than Mike's RV
and it was more squirrely on landing. It made a very good transition
airplane. Call Josh at Mudry Aviation in Bunnel if interested. Not as
cheap as Mike but well worth the money.
Rick Caldwell
RV-6 Almost there
Melbourne, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Tip up canopy height |
Quick question for someone with a completed RV6A with a tip up canopy...
How high is the top of the canopy off the ground when it's open?
I'm designing the workshop portion of my new hangar, and want it as low as
possible to reduce the volume for cooling, but would still like to open the
canopy when the fuselage is on it's gear.
..thanks Gil Alexander
RV6A S/N 20701
Tucson AZ
project on hold until the hangar/workshop gets built... all 11 tons of
steel is here, waiting for the county permit...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Flammable Interiors - Long Rambling |
I found some nice 1/2 inch foam sheet that is of a very good quality. It is
designed for camping as a bedroll. I thought it would be great to make side
panels out of it but then I took a small piece outside for the old flame
test. Wasn't a pretty sight. Flames grew quickly and the material melted
while still on fire and flowed down with gravity. This would spread fire.
Not a good idea to use in an aircraft.
It would be so easy to build a beautiful interior out of light, easily
available supplies but without being careful one would end up with an
interior that would burn fiercely. If care is taken the same full interior
can be built that will not spread fire. The worst thing left would be all of
the plastic on the instrument panel. Not much you can do about that.
Fuel should be the only thing left that will keep a fire burning. In the
small cockpit of our little ships we should be able to smell fuel as soon as
it escapes the fuel system. The flight should then be terminated at ASAP
while reducing electrical loads just to be safe.
One of the places where you can't see leaked fuel is below the seat pans. Is
any one using terminal blocks to connect fancy joysticks or autopilot
servos? Build a little deck or mount them on the side of a rib but keep
things like that off the floor. Put them where they will always be high and
dry. Leaking fuel will not ignite without an ignition source (like a spark).
I was planning to put Orcotek fire proof insulation below the seat and
luggage floors but I have re-thought that idea. Those areas are not
accessible during pre-flight so I wouldn't be able to tell if they are
soaked in water. I live in a wet climate so I need water to be able to drain
out of my ship if it gets in. Also, could you imagine how much fuel would be
trapped in insulation down below the seats if there was a leak? I want that
area clear. I will still put it below my carpet to support the carpet level.
I want to glue the insulation to the underside of the carpet so that I can
lift it and peek at the bare floor during pre-flight. I want insulation in
this area because that is where the exhaust has just left the pipes and it
creates heat and noise. I've never flown in an RV but I have read posts here
that talked about hot floorboards and their disadvantages in the summer.
So I'm still looking for foam and glue that won't burn. If any one has any
suggestions let me know and I will buy some, flame it, and post the results.
If we talk about this stuff enough and test well we should be able to come
up with some standard products for home builders to use. If we have enough
of a discussion on the subject while some of us flame test we can set a
standard. This will make a safer fleet of our wonderful aircraft. How many
homebuilts are out there with contact cement throughout the interior holding
every thing together? These aircraft might never experience a fire inside
but if they do the interior will flash into an oven of fire very quickly.
Lets build better aircraft. This list can be a tool that will help us build
fire resistant interiors.
Two sided carpet tape - I have some stuff that has very good sticky
qualities but I don't have the packaging it came in so I don't know the
brand. It is a thin foam with a sticky laminate on both sides. I took some
outside and put the flame to it. The flames spread very fast. Definitely
unsuitable for aircraft use. It's not like we're in a car that can just stop
and get out.
Fumes - Another thing to consider is that when some thing is smoldering or
burning it will produce smoke that can poison the pilot. Correct me if I'm
wrong but isn't that why we have a new spec of Tefzel wire? I thought I read
some where awhile ago (also on the top of page 359 of the ACS catalog it
mentions that the US Air Force will not permit the use of wire that burns
with toxic fumes) that the new wire won't intoxicate you when it burns.
This is a good quality.
Seat Fabric - The local seatcover center (autos) has binders full of
different fabrics to choose from. When I asked about fire proof qualities
they were able to produce a binder of flame resistant material. Plenty of
colors and patterns to choose from. The front of the binder had information
and federal codes on exactly how fire resistant the stuff is. It had been
tested to high standards. This fabric costs more than most of the other
fabrics but not outrageously so. An RV doesn't use that much. This is a good
place to spend some extra money. This specialized stuff is also amongst the
lightest of materials anyway.
Foam Seat Cushions - ACS catalog page 39, Temperfoam, this stuff was
designed for the Apollo Space Program. It has been to the moon many times. I
highly doubt that it is as extremely heavy as a recent post claimed it was.
They were looking for light things when they built those giant rockets.
Temperfoam is flame resistant, regular foam is not. I've done flame tests on
two types of regular foam and the stuff burns fiercely. I will soon be
trimming down the stick area of my Oregon Aero Contoured Temperfoam seat
cushions so I will have some scraps to do a flame test. I will post the
results.
To make your own cushions with the stuff from ACS you will need 4 pieces at
$77.40 each. Not cheap but worth it. Your home made cushions will cost over
$300. Consider that for less than $200 more you can have fashionably
contoured cushions from Oregon Aero. They are fantasticaly comfortable and
flame resistant to boot. This makes them infinitely better than any seats
made from regular foam.
Wow! Long letter, I'll quit now before some one thinks I ramble too much.
Please email me with some suggestions for glues and foams. Looking to have a
mil spec on flame resistance.
Happy new century!
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta, BC.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transistion Training in FL |
>
>After several hints to flying RV-6 drivers and no takers in helping me get
>current before my soon to come first flight, I looked for another solution
>and found it. It was so good I thought I'd pass it along. 15 months ago I
>flew Van's RV-6 with Mike Seager and was current then. But with the
>passsage of time, I didn't feel the Champ I fly was doing any justice.
>Yesterday I found a CAP 10 at Flagler County airport in Bunnel FL. This is
>side by side seating, stick, taildragger, fairly short coupled tailwheel
>acrobatic airplane from France. It's speed was the same as what Mike
>taught
>me and felt very similar. The 180 hp engine had more punch than Mike's RV
>and it was more squirrely on landing. It made a very good transition
>airplane. Call Josh at Mudry Aviation in Bunnel if interested. Not as
>cheap as Mike but well worth the money.
>
>Rick Caldwell
>RV-6 Almost there
>Melbourne, FL
I took the five hour course with Mudry Aviation a couple of years ago. It
was my first introduction to tailwheel aircraft. I found it very useful and
recommend it to anyone in Florida. I live in New Mexico, and even after the
travel to get there, I'm glad I did! The unusual attitude stuff was first
rate.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
Flying.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)ispchannel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transistion Training in FL |
> Yesterday I found a CAP 10 at Flagler County airport in Bunnel FL. This is
> side by side seating, stick, taildragger, fairly short coupled tailwheel
> acrobatic airplane from France. It's speed was the same as what Mike taught
It should also be noted that Mudry gives true aerobatic training in these birds.
Ever seen the
French Connection Airshow team? They run Mudry, and are fine folks. I had the
pleasure of
receiving some aerobatic training at Mudry a little over a year ago, and highly
recommend it.
Cheers,
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (stagnating in the garage)
PS- Thanks again to Brian Denk who recommended Mudry to me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lycoming 0-290D |
--- kenneth Lamar wrote:
>
>
> I have available to me a 0-290D that has a 0-320
> crank and high compression
> pistons with 0 SMOH and new accessories for an
> extreamly good price, what I
> need to know is will this engine work in a RV-9A (
> will the engine mount
> work) the builder says it has 140 hp.
>
>
> Thanks for all the help
> Ken
> emp RV-9A
Ken:
If it has an O-320 crank, it may have more than just
290 displacement and more than 140 HP. If my memory
is correct, an O-290 D2 is 140 HP at 2,800. There is
a Long Ez that has an O-290 case but is using an O-320
crank and O-470 angle head valve cylinders. He races
in the O-320 class and is as fast as the O-320 if not
faster. In the early 60's, John Thorpe wrote about
the O-290 G engine and the G stood for GeeWiz. Sounds
like that is what your friend has.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
So. CA, USA
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Last Word on Van's |
On most things that you can compare, yes Van's is competitive, which is why
I bought my instruments, some avionics, ELT, etc from Van's. The problem is
that the items you *can't* get anywhere else, i.e. Van's parts. And the
gouging going on with shipping and crating charges on small orders.
And if I were to write a complaint to management, it would be treated like
most other problems people have with Van's. I would get the usual response,
"well thousands of other builder's are happy" or "hundreds of other kits
have been built without this problem (like the canopy issue, even though
there are dozens of documented cases with the same problem". If I "grumble"
to the list, maybe it will get a few other's to come out and agree with me,
which would make a much larger voice.
Also, I don't agree with the $29,000 price would get you better plans and
manuals. Fiberglass is more expensive than alluminum, and the parts require
considerably more work to fabricate, therefore the higher price. That is
comparing expensive apples to less expensive oranges. If there were two
very similar kits and the price delta was that great, and the more expensive
kit had better manuals and plans, I would agree.
I am not suggesting in any way that a Glasair is a better plane than an RV,
just that they tend to re-invest more into other areas of concern than Van's
does.
Once again, I do not think Van's is a poor company, or that I dislike Van's
in any way. I was simply trying to make a point that if Van's is going to
make some pretty significant profits, then some of that should be put back
into the quality of the kits. Simple things like a better system than 200
little brown bags that don't tell you what's in them. A few extra rivets
and platenuts to make sure that you have enough, instead of *exactly* the
right amount called for on the plans. It's the little things like that (in
addition to the larger things like better quality manuals and plans) that
make a difference.
I'm done.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
> -
> Hmmm...
> Paul, I thought in the past I have seen you post how tough it is to beat
> most any of Van's prices anywhere else.
> Maybe that was someone else.
> Anyway, if you are genuenly displeased, writting a complaint to managment
> would probably be of more value than grumbling on the list.
> -
> This was sent to me off list, and is a GREAT point...If we had
> plans,
> manuals and packaging ala Glasair, I would not be near as concerned.
>
If you had paid $29,000 + for your RV kit, you probably would!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aquila33(at)webtv.net (dann mann) |
| Subject: | Re: lycoming 0-290D |
This engine is for sale on Ebay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip up canopy height |
My garage has a 100" ceiling. The canopy just about hits it when fully
extended upwards.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gil Alexander" <gila(at)flash.net>
Sent: Friday, December 31, 1999 5:58 PM
Subject: RV-List: Tip up canopy height
>
> Quick question for someone with a completed RV6A with a tip up canopy...
>
> How high is the top of the canopy off the ground when it's open?
>
> I'm designing the workshop portion of my new hangar, and want it as low as
> possible to reduce the volume for cooling, but would still like to open
the
> canopy when the fuselage is on it's gear.
>
> ..thanks Gil Alexander
>
> RV6A S/N 20701
> Tucson AZ
>
> project on hold until the hangar/workshop gets built... all 11 tons of
> steel is here, waiting for the county permit...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | sun and fun dates? |
anyone know of the specific dates for sun and fun 2000? thanx, bob in Arkansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Last Word on Van's |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
> Also, I don't agree with the $29,000 price would get you better
> plans and
> manuals. Fiberglass is more expensive than alluminum, and the parts
> require
> considerably more work to fabricate, therefore the higher price.
>
I don't have any actual #'s to provide so take this as only speculation,
but I think consumers have been duped into believing that it is a lot
more expensive.
I personally believe that it is a bit more expensive but more than
double? Not likely.
Case in point... for many years Vans was shipping nearly as many complete
kits each year, as Nieco (Lancair) had shipped in their entire time in
business. Now considering they (along with Glasair, and others) have
always had the fancy, red carpet on the floor, booths at the major
flyins, totally decked out demonstrators (did I mention they also charge
for their demo flights). If they are selling a lot less kits it is basic
economics to realize that their profit margin has to be much, much
higher.
BTW I am not opposed to any company spending money on that type of thing,
I just want to point out they are not a shoe string operation.
As for the $29,000 RV I think it is closer to an apples to apples
comparison that you think (I have my opinion, you have yours).
Because I think something like a Glastar kit has been priced at a
specific margin for a specific volume. As long as they sell a certain #
they are happy with the profit they will make (again my opinion)
Take a minute some time and check out their web site. When you get done
buying all of the required parts to build a Glastar (minus they standard
engine, prop, instruments, etc., disclaimer) you are already into it for
$30,000. I think the main airframe portion of the Glastar kit only has
about 6 major components that are composite. Besides that there is a
steel welded cage, and the rest is the inexpensive material... aluminum.
Many RV builders over the years have said (though not to loudly) that for
a comparable value, the RV's are way under priced.
I guess what I should have originally said is if the RV kit prices were
set at what the market would still buy them at, then the kits and
everything with them would probably be as fancy as the other guys.
I'm done too.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: sun and fun dates? |
>
>anyone know of the specific dates for sun and fun 2000? thanx, bob in Arkansas
>
It's April 9-15, 2000 according to their web page, http://sun-n-fun.com/
Happy New Year,
Kevin Horton
Kevin Horton
khorton(at)cyberus.ca
6730 Parkway Rd.
Greely, ON
K4P 1E3
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Profit |
I have dealt with Van for 10 years off and on. I have been advised many
times by him and his staff that I did need this or that, which Van's had
for sale.
Van's is fair in their pricing in most cases. My reading of Van is he
doesn't like spending his money unnecessarily and want the same for his
customers. Which I have always liked about dealing with Van's. Poor
planning on my part has cost me a lot of shipping cost. And not studing the
plans enough has also cost me. I can't lay that at Van's door step!
We get alot of airplane as compared to the other kit companies or
production companies for the buck!
Have a good one!
Denny Harjehausen
Lebanon, OR
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
During my "annual" CONDITION inspection, I had my
Hartzell prop balanced. Today, I flew the airplane
for the first time since the balancing. The short
20-minute flight was like I was flying a new airplane.
I previously could tell by sound / feel what RPM I
was at. I no longer could tell except by the TACH.
Previously, I would not run at 2,400 RPM because it
felt like I had a little bit of vibration. It is now
gone. It is as smooth as it can be at 2,400 and all
the other power settings I tried.
The short test flight today, I have to say that the
prop balancing was worth twice the price.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
So. CA, USA
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Brown <glide303(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: lycoming 0-290D |
Gary - everybody.
The O-290G stood for ground power unit. The case was
a bunch different. The crank flange was thin, with 4
of the mounting holes oversize with non-standard press
in prop nuts. The valves were small. The pan was heavy.
The carb was downdraft. It had 1 mag, the other space
was occupied by a governor. The jugs had a different,
not as good, fin pattern. The only thing G-whiz about
it was the price. $100.
Most of the things I mentioned needed to be modified
or replaced.
Dennis Brown
Be very, very careful that you know what you are
getting into.
>Ken:
>If it has an O-320 crank, it may have more than just
>290 displacement and more than 140 HP. If my memory
>is correct, an O-290 D2 is 140 HP at 2,800. There is
>a Long Ez that has an O-290 case but is using an O-320
>crank and O-470 angle head valve cylinders. He races
>in the O-320 class and is as fast as the O-320 if not
>faster. In the early 60's, John Thorpe wrote about
>the O-290 G engine and the G stood for GeeWiz. Sounds
>like that is what your friend has.
>Gary A. Sobek
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flammable Interiors - Long Rambling |
> options. Temperfoam is available from Aircraft Spruce for $310 or
contoured
> from Oregon Aero for $500. Next week I will continue my search for some
thin
> foam to line the sidewalls of my RV6A with. I will post the results. The
> thinnest Temperfoam available from ACS is 1" and I want 1/2" or 3/8". I
will
> ask Oregon Aero if they will sell any.
Gee, guys, DJ Lauritsen will sell you an entire interior for $685 and it's
her labor, not yours. I can attest that she and her assistant Bev do first
class work.
One other item, Artex Products (the interior people who advertise in Trade A
Plane) sell what I can best describe as a corrugated plastic material that
is perfect for sidewalls. It looks just like corragated box material, but
made of a lightweight plastic. It is about 3/16" thick, very lightweight.
and can be cut with sissors. You can glue you fabric to this and attach to
the side of the airplane with cement or Velcro. I used it in a Cessna 180
restroration and intend to use it on the sidewalls of my RV-4.
Doug Weiler
RV-4 finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: sun and fun dates? |
Sun N Fun runs April 9-April 15
>
> anyone know of the specific dates for sun and fun 2000? thanx, bob in
Arkansas
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | BEST Value (pricing) |
The RV is the BEST value of ANY airplane out there
today.
Van has the best possible prices on accessories that I
have found for ONE STOP shopping. It takes a LOT of
my time to try and find a price better than Van's. If
you are willing to spend a LOT of time shopping, you
may be able to save 5% but you WILL spend a lot of
time doing it. I am not talking about one item, I am
talking about ALL the items that Van's sells. If Van
sells one item that is too high priced, people will go
elsewhere for that one item.
An example of savings from Van's. Hartzell constant
speed prop for an O-320 from Hartzell is $9,450 where
as from Van it is under $4,500.
As for metal parts, I have a difficult time purchasing
the material to make a metal part for the price that
the part can be purchased formed from Van.
It is difficult to find someone that is "cheaper" than
I am. If Van sells it and I needed it, I buy it from
Van. Enough said.
What Van charges for Shipping and Handling is
reasonable and necessary. Have you looked at Shipping
and Handling charges from Sears lately?
Gary's Law of business: "You cannot please 100% of
the people 100% of the time."
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
So. CA, USA
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gusndale(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Profit |
Van deserves to make a profit just like anyone else who has a product we
want to buy. As others have said, there are a lot of business and stocking
overhead costs involved in keeping a business profitable. The consumer has
to pay those costs in the end. You may well find that you can get some items
cheaper elsewhere rather than at Van's. You are welcome to ferret out those
deals when you can. For most of the things that Van's sells they are one of
the most reasonable sources. Most of us are building Van's kits because they
are the best flying kits out there and because they are the most bang for the
buck.
Personally, I hope Van is making good money. He's providing me with a
great airplane at a very reasonable price. It appears to me that his overall
business philosophy is to sell a lot of airplanes at a modest profit rather
than a few at high profit.
I don't intend to flame anyone, but I think it is oversimplifying to
conclude that Van is gouging us on prices based on a couple of items. Just
my opinion.
Regards,
Dale Wotring
RV6A
Vancouver, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Van's pricing |
"Mark D. Dickens" wrote:
>
> Now, THAT I would agree with...when I think of the parts I've
> "re-bought" because the instructions were either plain wrong or
> misleading,
I can not think of one instance when the plans or manual for my 6A where
misleading or wrong. I have on occasion had a hard time visualizing the
procedure but have always figured it out. As for replacement parts, I had to
replace my f-605b, a bellcrank and one flap brace all due to my ignorance when
drilling, cutting or installing the part.
> the argument that "this would increase the cost of the kits"
> just doesn't hold water.
Build a Christen Eagle. The plans and manual for this bird consists of numerous
volumes and cost a whopping 500+ bucks. Part A fits into slot A' , etc.
> The kit costs more anyway when you consider
> the cost of the parts you buy several times.
Take a look at other manufacturer's kits. There parts are not as well made or
fit as good. The parts and fit in the RV-8 are up to space shuttle standards.
They are absolutely gorgeous.
My suggestion is read well ahead in the manual and plans and visualize what is
to be done. I don't believe one can ever read the plans or manual to much. You
should be able to plan far enough ahead so you know what needs to be done and
in what order. I eat, sleep and work thinking about when or how I will do the
next step.
Van's kits are by far the best value on the market.
Off my soap box now
Gary Zilik - RV-6A N99PZ, Almost ready to fly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Profit |
>Van's is making a fortune
NOT!!
I have enough knowledge and experience in this matter to claim myself an
expert!
I worry that Vans may not make a profit and quit the business. Most of
y'all have no conception of what it costs to run any business especially
one that sells such things as a single cotter pin. What many of you need
to do is sit down and price your orders from other sources such as
ACS. Often it is cheaper to buy from them and when it is, don't whimper,
just do it. Van most likely does not really want your business for one
bolt etc. It costs big money to process an order and I would be willing to
bet that, even with the "crating charge" Van loses money on many orders -
probably without even knowing it. I would be surprised if Van or Bill or
anyone there knows just how some of these costs really shake out. For
example, what does a support call from you cost? My guess is at least $25
minimum and what do you pay? When you place an order, I'll bet it costs
him at least $12 to take it. If your order is for $20, the margin is
probably less than 50% or $10. Subtract the $12 and you lose.
When I had my Honda motorcycle dealership, the largest in Kansas at the
time, Honda would sell us little bits and pieces for two and three cents
each. I dreaded some customers as they would come in, bend your ear for
ten minutes, buy two or three five cent items and then charge it. Van will
even let them bring them back for full credit! We finally started charging
more - like 25 cents for a bolt that cost us three cents. If the customer
went elsewhere for it - hooray!
We need to simply make orders large enough that the $4 crating charge is no
big deal. Also remember this about Van or any other business that seems to
be ripping you off - go into competition with them. Become filthy rich
yourself!
I'm no apologist for Vans. Van hisself is one of the few great men I've
met and talked to, even if he was curt and short with me. Another is Bill
Gates who was quite pleasant. I do believe that Vans will someday have
some real competition and then he will have to face concerns that we all
have about poor documentation, mismanufactured parts, feeble excuses and so
on. He will than have to charge more for the product and sell harder.
But for now, his pricing is more than fair.
Hal Kempthorne - SJC
RV6a N7HK at SCK Hangar K3
Debonair N6134V for sale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <emrath(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: pneumatic squeezers? |
I bought a CP214 clone just a few months ago from "The Yard" in KC for $195
plus shipping charges, includes a 2.5" Yoke. Check the archives for the
phone or the Yeller Pages, but they have a webb site.
Marty in Brentwood TN.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Shook <skydiven(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 8:39 AM
Subject: RV-List: pneumatic squeezers?
>
> To those who have purchases pneumatic squeezers in lieu of hand squeezers,
> can you email me and tell me where you got them and how much they were.
> There was a post about Kunkle having them for $195, but that is not the
> case. They are $325 from him and if a better deal is out there I would
like
> to take a look at it. If not, I'll buy his.
>
> Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV8DRIVER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Air Cleco tool |
RVers,
>There was a post within the last couple of weeks concerning carpal
tunnel, etc. and cleco use that I had intended to reply to but lost the
message.
In my opinion, the best air cleco tool I've found is the "Speedkleek". I
bought mine several years ago at one of the Boone, Iowa RV fly-ins. It's a
bit pricey at around $200+<
US Industrial Tool and Supply Co. makes a similar cleco tool that I like
better than the pistol-grip type especially for work on vertical panels (wing
in jig) since it is in line with the axis of your forearm. The p/n is US902,
and it lists for $89 in their current catalog (pg 78) . It has a short lever
rather than a button. Seems to work best on about 70 psi, Higher pressures
tend to slam the piston open and bang on the cleco if your'e not quick
pulling on it. No damage from this, just don't like the hard action. This Co.
is a supplier of tools to the pros and they have some interesting heavy duty
stuff in their catalog. Andy Johnson, -8 wings, left done except for fuel
tank, ugh.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Armstrong <robert.armstrong(at)wcom.com> |
| Subject: | Last Word on Van's |
I personally don't think that Van's is gouging us on parts or
shipping, and others have already pointed out why in a far more
erudite manner than I could achieve. I do agree with those who
comment on the need for improvements to the plans and documentation
for what is a relatively mature product and I share the frustration of
everyone who had had to sort through a pile of small paper bags of
parts.
With that said, I am very satisfied with the quality of the QB kit I
received from Van's and with the price that I paid for the kit. I
haven't yet found anything in aviation to be inexpensive, yet I
believe that Van delivers a very good value in direct comparison to
most of the other manufacturers. I'm confident that the aircraft will
fly well when I'm finished. If it doesn't, it will probably be my
fault.
It appears that Van's continues to focus on kit improvements over
improvements in documentation. Small companies walk a fine line
between profit and failure and it is probably very hard to accept
feedback from beginners, or to see the need for change, when so many
people have successfully completed aircraft. On the other hand, Van
would almost certainly decrease his support costs and call volumes if
the documentation was better. I'm neither slamming nor defending the
company as I make this point. Documentation is tough to do right and
it takes a special skill to write a clear and concise construction
manual. It is also very hard to stop work on the interesting and
challenging projects to spend time on writing. Yes, other companies
have raised the bar on packaging and documentation within the past few
years, but this seems to be reflected in their kit prices and sales
practices.
Robert Heinlein coined the word "TANSTAAFL" years ago, which stands
for "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch".
Bob
RV-8AQ (Empennage control surfaces)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charlie Oglesby" <coglesby(at)ithink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 12/31/99 |
>anyone know of the specific dates for sun and fun 2000? thanx, bob in
Arkansas
April 9th to 15th, 2000
www.sun-n-fun.org
Charlie
Winter Haven, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bobdz" <bobdz(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Profit |
From: Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net>
> We need to simply make orders large enough that the $4 crating charge is
no
> big deal. Also remember this about Van or any other business that seems
to
> be ripping you off - go into competition with them. Become filthy rich
> yourself!
>
Hal
I was waiting for a former or current business owner to reply to this
thread. Your reply was outstanding.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David L. White" <dwhite(at)netwalk.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator |
Thanks. The problem was that the display has to be set to either 640 x 480
or 1024 x768. The program will not run except in one of those modes.
It does run fine now, and FS 2000 is a good improvement over previous
versions. However, if you want the best IFR simulation, I'd still go with
Elite. I have that program and use it regularly before and after an
instrument lesson and its very realistic.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRoss10612(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Van's pricing |
Paul:
Buy a Cessna 210 or 182 like the two we have at my company. Call Cessna for
tech support, or to check on a part that is no longer made or has a new part
number. The Cessna folks will take your number and you get a call back in
three days, usually when you're not there to receive that call, and then it
starts all over. When you do get the information that you want from them,
you'll find that parts availability may be a problem, and the price is often
a mind bender. For a simple part, that can often take a week or more, even
when using overnight delivery.
And dealing with Gulfstream regarding our G-IV can be almost as frustrating
at times.
< I wouldn't mind as much if he would put some of that mad money into his
plans and manuals.>
They do. Perhaps not as quickly as we would like, but they do make
improvements. And, the funny thing is, this is driven by the customer. This
is where it will take time to document a problem and let the company know,
even after you have solved it yourself and you have no benefit other than
helping some other builder.
What is out of hand for you, may also be out of hand for Van's. That is, the
prices for packing and shipping might not be high enough. It may appear to
you that money is being made on packing and shipping, but I doubt it.
I will not repeat the excellent points made by Scott McDaniels & Doug
Rozendal.
In closing, I'm surprised that Van's can offer what they do at the prices
they quote. And, let's not forget that they are in business to make a profit.
Jon Ross RV 80094
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Van's Profit |
I think those of us on this list that have been with Van's for a while,
either because they take a long time to build like me, or have built multiple
RV's, will agree that Van's has re-invested a significant amount of money
into product, facility and equipment improvement. The amount of pre-punching
and other forms of pre-fabrication in the current kits are orders of
magnitude above what was there even 4-5 years ago.The pre-punched parts,
almost finished firewalls, and pre-drilled gear legs are just a few of the
time consuming and often difficult processes that are no longer done by the
builder. Recently, instead of offering a "wiring kit" for our birds, the
company now offers what amounts to a pre-wired harness for most of your
electrical needs at a price not much more than that of the old wiring kit. It
is accompanied by some very clear and concise drawings for electrical circuit
path ideas, and electrical equipment placement.
I guess my point is that while we all could come up with a wish list for
things we would like to see done different at Van's, borrow a term used by
Van's A/c itself, and look at their "Total Performance".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ollie Washburn" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Pressure (me too) |
I am not sure which type it is,the brand is Micro Vision.And to be honist
Iwas too busy watching the press. to see what the flow was Ollie
----- Original Message -----
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Low Fuel Pressure (me too)
>
> >
> >My RV6-A does the same.Yesterday on flight from Pit to Tampa climbing to
> >8500 my press dropped to about 0 in climb.Boost pump brought press to 2
or 3
> >psi.I had a direct hook up to fuel press gage and now have flow indicator
> >and vmo 800 system.Both showed same.
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Rick McBride <rickrv8(at)qwestinternet.net>
> >To:
> >Sent: Monday, December 27, 1999 5:10 PM
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Low Fuel Pressure (me too)
> >
> >
>
>
> Is your fuel flow an impellar or a pressure type? I can see where
there
> would not be enough back pressure to indicate pressure and the engine is
> still running fine under some conditions. But if the fuel flow indicator
> is an impellar type, it should indicate how much is flowing. That should
> give us an indication of how healthy the engine pump is. Right or wrong?
>
>
> Have a good day!
> Denny Harjehausen
> RV-6 EAA 1183 OR.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Arthur Glaser <airplane(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Last Word on Van's |
I am working on a rv4 kit that was sold a couple of times before I purchased
it. There are a multiplicity of items that I had to purchase. Despite the
fact that the plane was not purchased directly from Van, I have always been
treated with courtesy and patience. Other companies have been known to
ignore calls for help etc. There was not tech support available on my first
plans built aircraft.
I found that some of the items cost me half of what it would have cost from
Spruce or Wicks. Other items were closer in price. It appears that his
cost savings on bulk purchases are often passed on to the population of rv
builders.
He could charge the going rate and really make a large profit.
I would think many of us should try to remember this when we order parts and
get a small shipping and crating charge.
Art Glaser
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Wires, Cables, & Firewall |
What are most people doing to protect and seal the wires and cables going
through the firewall?
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL Reserved
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
(570)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jose del Peso <JDELPESO(at)teleline.es> |
Hi,listeners:
I cannot buy Alumiprep in Europe, well, Aircraft Spruce dealer can send
the product with a
charge of 300$ of shipping cost, a little expensive for me.I can buy
fosforic acid, so my
questions are:
-Does anybody know if the Alumiprep has other products in adition of the
fosforic acid?
-Wich is the concentration of the fosforic acid?
Thanks and happy new year
Jose del Peso
RV-8 #80981
Madrid Spain
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Morris" <morristec(at)icdc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flammable Interiors - Long Rambling |
>
> I found some nice 1/2 inch foam sheet that is of a very good quality. It
is
> designed for camping as a bedroll. I thought it would be great to make
side
> panels out of it but then I took a small piece outside for the old flame
> test. Wasn't a pretty sight. Flames grew quickly and the material melted
> while still on fire and flowed down with gravity. This would spread fire.
> Not a good idea to use in an aircraft.
Interior materials, foams for cushions, covering materials, and other stuff
are available that meet the FAA requirements for part 23 or 25 airplanes.
The most applicable specification is the verticle flame test in which the
material must be self extinguishing after the flame source is removed.
Check with a local airplane upholstry shop that does larger airplanes, like
turbines or jets. I don't think that these materials are available from
wholesellers to the public direct, but maybe. BTW 100% wool fabric or
carpet meets the requirement untreated. Last time that I checked (2 yrs.
ago) with the various RV interior sources, they weren't using fire resistant
materials, just standard auto stuff.
I used the fire resistant stuff (FAR 25.853 (a) ) and is cost substantially
more, but the quantity of material is small. I just wanted to know that if
there was a cockpit fire, that my seat wasn't going to contribute to the
flames. For those who would permit smoking in the cockpit this is
especially important. A friend nearly crashed, when while in loose
formation with me he dropped a cigarette in his seat, started a fire and had
difficulty controlling the airplane due to fire and smoke. Smoke is another
issue.
Dan Morris
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Morris" <morristec(at)icdc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flammable Interiors - Long Rambling |
For those of you who want an approximation of the FAA test used for these
materials to establish the burn characteristics, the following will help:
Take sample of material 12" long or so, and 2 to 3 inches wide. Hang so
that the 12" dimension is vertical. Using a butane lighter with the flame
turned up pretty well, expose the bottom edge of the sample to the flame for
15 seconds. Remove the flame. The material should self extinquish, and the
burned material length should not exceed 6". Foam should be tested in .5"
thickness (I think).
Part 23 airplanes are required to meet a similar test with the sample held
horizontally.
Ref: FAR 25 appendix F Part I
This test is not to determine FAR compliance, but rather to give you a warm
and fuzzy (or not) of the characteristics of the material.
As I mentioned in another post, 100% wool meets the requirement, and so does
Schroth seat belt webbing.
Dan morris
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard White" <chiefs(at)teleport.com> |
Jerry...
I am building an RV-8QB and am looking at installing the fuel lines. From
what I have looked at so far there isn't much information as where to locate
the holes in the fuse for the lines. Is there somewhere that you are aware
of that the locations are noted with measurements? It has been a few days
since I looked at this, but from what I remember, the book just said install
fuel selector and lines, the drawing showed prepunched holes, but my fuse
doesn't have the holes shown on the drawings.
Dick White
RV-8QB systems
Newport,OR
DNA
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Carter <rv8abuild(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 1999 7:15 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Lines
>
> I'm plumbing the fuel lines from the fuel selector valve in my 8A QB. Has
> anyone used a bulkhead fitting wher the line penetrates the fuselage
> instead of the little rubber grommet supplied? Otherwise, I would have
> about five inches of 3\8" aluminum tubing sticking out of the side of the
> fuse, and this would seem awkward when attaching the wings to the fuse.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jerry Carter
> RV-8A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harrellace(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Pressure (me too) |
I have the same trouble with my fuel pressure. I must run the electric pump,
up to alt. 3000 or better . If I don't, the fuel pressure will go to
-O- and the eng. will slow down,.
0360 A1A C/S 400 Hrs.
RV 6 N7470U Ky.
Ken
Harrell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Profit |
Hal
I couldn't have said it any better. I have told potential clients I
could not take their business for exactly that reason.
Matter of fact, I made a decision a long time ago to not sell any parts
but to
provide a service. my parts are part of that service if needed to fix a
problem.
Gert
Hal Kempthorne wrote:
>
>
> >Van's is making a fortune
>
> NOT!!
>
> I have enough knowledge and experience in this matter to claim myself an
> expert!
>
--------SNIP--------------
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
I'm glad Vans Plans are the way they are. They forced me to look ahead
like I should be doing anyway. They also have allowed me to interact with
this list and make other friends and see other ways to 'skin the cat' so
to speak. I would guess many of us are on this list for these reasons.
Thanks to Matte we have greater knowledge from each other. A nice way to
start this century.
Cecil Hatfield
Thousand Oaks, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Van's Profit/ other side of the fence |
Happy New Year Everybody,
no flaming here, but as a business owner myself, I find that once you have
established a break-even point, ( the cost of doing business) you have to
mark up all parts accordingly. I pay $5.00 for some parts I have to sell for
$95.00. You do the math and see what kind of markup that comes to. There is a
lot that goes on behind the scenes that cost quite a bit, and the parts sells
or whatever it be labeled shipping, creating, or raising the part prices
more, which would make you buy elsewhere. Why do you think a hospital charges
$10.00 for 1 aspirin? Do you know how much the insurance, workmen's comp,
payroll, electric, etc., cost to run a hospital.
Even at those kind of markups, we are operating on a 2% annual profit, if we
had a good year. And doing over $1,000,000.00 annually in sales still doesn't
let me run out and buy that new 0360 lyc / constant speed prop from vans.
Bottom line, I applaud Van's operation, I have nothing but good to say to the
way they have treated me over the last 2 years. When I screwed up a part, I
had it within a week at a reasonable price. my wing kit had a part missing,
that I didn't notice till about 60 days after I received it, no charge!
Delivered in 3 days. That's the kind of service that impresses me.
again happy new year
Scott
Tampa
rv6a fuse electric flaps done, mounting rudder pedals
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Last Word on Van's |
Strange world we live in
Everybody wants to be come rich and make a lot of easy money. That is,
untill, it comes out of their own pocket.
I think Van's delivers an excelent service for which I gratefully pay
him. If he charges a little more on some items then so be it.
My project is dragging because of lack of funds but I do not mind paying
an extra buck to Van's and let him have my business.
Van's seems to be willing to sell you a lot smaller quantety of say
rivets than other places I know of. So, should I buy a pound of rivets
for a better per rivet price or buy closer to what I need and some
spares from Van's. In most cases I am willing to pay a slightly higher
price for less quantety, less to get lost in my garage.
You cannot go and compare an RV with some other manufacturer because
they are all pretty much unique. It's kinda like comparing a GMC build
car with either a Bentley, GMC probably looses, or with a Yugo, GMC
probably wins. Strangely you will find a group of people happy with any
of the aforementioned brands.
And these people are all perfectly willing to stand up for their choice.
If Van's made a buck on that shipment, which I also doubt, then good for
him. I agree with Doug, speaking also from my own experience, it's hard
not to loose on 'grab' ware.
Gert
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
Jose
On my prepackaged bottle PPG DX-503, it says the following
water
chromic acid
potassium ferricyanide
nitric acid
amonium bifluoride
sorry, no quanteties
Gert
rv-8 winging it.
Jose del Peso wrote:
>
>
> Hi,listeners:
> I cannot buy Alumiprep in Europe, well, Aircraft Spruce dealer can send
> the product with a
> charge of 300$ of shipping cost, a little expensive for me.I can buy
> fosforic acid, so my
> questions are:
> -Does anybody know if the Alumiprep has other products in adition of the
> fosforic acid?
> -Wich is the concentration of the fosforic acid?
> Thanks and happy new year
> Jose del Peso
> RV-8 #80981
> Madrid Spain
>
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Hughes <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Profit |
Doug,
Great take. Thanks. I was sitting here trying to think how to put my thoughts
into words, and I read your remarks to find that you have done it far better
than I could have.
Anyone that doesn't believe this should read it again. Then read "Atlas
Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, and then re-read Dougs post.
Keith Hughes
RV-6 Wings
Parker, CO
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
> A company has responsibility to 3 groups. Customers, Employees, and
> Stockholders. Those companies that survive along time are the ones that are
> able to balance the interests of these diverse groups. This assumes that a
> company has a good product. Those which don't fade very quickly. Most
> would agree, Van's has a Great product.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wires, Cables, & Firewall |
I used grommets and firewall shields
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/5379/fin00101.jpg
Gary Zilik
Jim Cimino wrote:
>
> What are most people doing to protect and seal the wires and cables going
> through the firewall?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
| Subject: | Re: Airflow Perf Inj - RV-6A |
Lou,
I know you asked for locations on a 6A for the Airflow Perf. placement
but I thought I'd respond with my 8 situation.
I posted something last weeks so this is repetitious but I managed to
get the filter directly below the fuel selector (Andair) and the pump in
front of my left gear leg. I too wanted to keep it all on the cockpit
side of the firewall. The AP manual shows a schematic with the filter
downstream of the pump on the engine side so I call Don Rivera and asked
about it. He said that this arrangement is not preferred but maybe
necessary due to real estate problems. `i would think that you would
want some sort of filter prior to the pump package.
I ran the question about fuel flow xducer placement too. I've decided
to put it inline just prior to the fuel controller in the #6 feed line.
This is so that I can get a length of smooth flow and a horizontal
orientation. The inlets to the xducer are #6 NPT so this should not
restrict the flow. Outlet from the fuel controller is #4.
The only problem that the VM-1000 people could see was possible error
with pulsed supply form the eng pump rather than smoother metered flow.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
I would go to an autobody supply store and buy what they have for metal
prep. It will have Phosphoric acid as a component.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
-----Original Message-----
From: Jose del Peso <JDELPESO(at)teleline.es>
Date: Saturday, January 01, 2000 11:37 AM
Subject: RV-List: Alumiprep
>
>Hi,listeners:
>I cannot buy Alumiprep in Europe, well, Aircraft Spruce dealer can send
>the product with a
>charge of 300$ of shipping cost, a little expensive for me.I can buy
>fosforic acid, so my
>questions are:
>-Does anybody know if the Alumiprep has other products in adition of the
>fosforic acid?
>-Wich is the concentration of the fosforic acid?
>Thanks and happy new year
>Jose del Peso
>RV-8 #80981
>Madrid Spain
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid Autopilot Servo Mounting- Isolation Mounts |
Sorry, but I have since learned from Navaid that their wing leveler
autopilot servo is to be hard mounted to whatever tray the installer
creates. This is their official skinny.
Norman
PS - Thanks all for the many responses to this thread.
> Don't hard mount them if it's not called for.
>
> I don't know the size of the servo you are referring to and I'm surprised
> mounts didn't come with servo if the installation instructions says to
used
> them. Have you taken a look at the isolation mounts used on large Remote
> Control airplane servos? I've seen more than one RC beginner skip the
step
> of adding the isolation mounts to the servos (every RC servo comes with
them
> but you have to take the time to physically insert them into slots
designed
> for them on the sergo) and crash when some component fails due to
vibration
> - and that includes the "latest" all digital, SMT servos. And I'd be more
> than a little surprised if even after a couple of hours use the non
isolated
> servos didn't show significantly more slop in the gear train than a
properly
> isolated mount.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Bower <jimbower(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Van's pricing - the manuals |
Ok, can I throw in my $0.02 worth on
part of this subject?
I've been writing technical manuals
for almost 20 years. My number one
rule is that the writer has to
understand his or her subject. It
comes across in Van's builder's
manual that the writer(s) have built
RVs. Sometimes, that intimate
understanding is a double edged
sword. If you know the subject
matter thoroughly it's easy to
forget that you once were a novice,
so you tend to gloss over some
things.
As to the errors and omissions:
From personal experience I can tell
you that no matter how many times
you read what you wrote, something
will get past you. That can even
happen when others proofread your
work. Proofing is a tedious task,
and I have a feeling that Van's
staff is not like Boeing's (hundreds
of people doing the same job). How
many builders call or write Van's
when they find something amiss?
It's a red letter day indeed when an
end user of one of my books contacts
my company and comments (favorably
or otherwise) on its content.
Usually the tech support guys get
all the flak. I would be willing to
bet that when Van's finds out about
an error they are quick to address
it. When I got my preview plans
set, there were several
changed/updated drawings to insert.
This is just on PREVIEW PLANS, that
weren't intended for construction!
You've gotta love that level of
attention to detail.
As was pointed out in other posts,
the RV list is a great source of
help, advice, and moral support.
Also, if you're not a member of a
local EAA chapter you're missing out
on another source of help. If we
talk to each other we can build our
airplanes, and if we talk to Van's
we can help them improve their
documentation.
Jim Bower
St. Louis
Future RV-6A builder/owner/pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Profit Is Necessary |
In a message dated 01/01/2000 11:48:14 AM Pacific Standard Time,
nhunger(at)sprint.ca writes:
<< I hope Van is making enough profit to pay for his present and future legal
needs. >>
DITTO on that thought. There would be alot of folks screaming if Van decided
that it was just too much anymore and decided to sell the business. Folks
would be in a
tiff over things then, I suspect. Compare with any of the other kit
manufacturers and I think folks can figure out what would happen. After all,
why do you think many of us got interested in an RV in the first place.
Price a GlasStar or Glassair kit sometime.
I was interested in the GlasStar, but just couldn't justify the cost in
comparison.
Jim Nice
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
>I have a version of the file that is RV6.dwg
>
>Will this help? I have had some guys here in our CAD department at work
print
>this file using AutoCAD and it seemed to work fine... I'll forward it from
my
>work account.
Sorry, I meant to say I found Tim Lewis's ".dwg" file, not ".drw". I still
need a dxf file because I don't have Autocad, I have another tool that can
import .dxf but not .dwg.
Randall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wires, Cables, & Firewall |
>What are most people doing to protect and seal the wires and cables going
>through the firewall?
I think most people are using the stainless firewall shields and grommets,
although based on past threads about this (there have been several), I'm not
the only one who wishes there was a better solution.
Think about it -- we cut an oversized hole in the firewall, and put a
grommet in to keep the wire from getting cut on the sharp stainless. Then we
go and put a shield on there that has a sharp stainless edge 1/8" or less
from the wire...! I used them anyway most places, and smeared high temp RTV
over the holes to help keep out the exhaust. I did use two of the eyeball
passthrus which are great, but for $26ea I couldn't get too many of them, so
I only used them where I had cables that went through at an angle.
There are aluminum AN fittings that work well for straight thrus but I don't
think you can use them if you have a permanent fitting on the end of the
cable. I think there are some phenolic solutions out there but I've never
found them. The things that Lycoming ships with their engines for running
the ignition wires through the baffles are perfect -- if there was a source
for different sizes/types of those, I think that would be a great find. But
actually the stainless shields would be a whole lot better if they just had
curled edges. I have seen ones like that on Cessnas but the ones Vans (and
Spruce, Chief, etc.) sells have just the sharp edges.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~50 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
Jose in my experience you really dont need aluminaprep
if you thoughrouly clean the part and then use a self
etching primer you can eliminate the aluminaprep.
aluminaprep when I have used it in the past at KC
Aviation and now Gulfstream Aviation was for parts
that needed to be etched which is what aluminaprep is
is basically an acid etch and the self etching primer
will do the job just as nice without the associated
cost. Just a suggestion
Glenn Williams
A&P mechanic
8A wings
FT. Worth, TX.
--- Jose del Peso wrote:
>
>
> Hi,listeners:
> I cannot buy Alumiprep in Europe, well, Aircraft
> Spruce dealer can send
> the product with a
> charge of 300$ of shipping cost, a little expensive
> for me.I can buy
> fosforic acid, so my
> questions are:
> -Does anybody know if the Alumiprep has other
> products in adition of the
> fosforic acid?
> -Wich is the concentration of the fosforic acid?
> Thanks and happy new year
> Jose del Peso
> RV-8 #80981
> Madrid Spain
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
>
> Settlement...
> http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html
>
>
>
>
>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lesliebwilliams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
the tarmac on it's purely "unofficial" maiden flight during an intential
high speed "taxi" run, but if anybody asks, I'll deny it! (This after a "no
show" on Thursday of one our friendly FAA Aviation Safety Inspectors. No
phone calls, no emails, no ticket!) All went well and the aircraft
performed just like any of the other RV's I've flown, which is great! It's
now in the hangar awaiting the official sign-off. official first flight, and
a subsequent "official" flight report.
Following are the aircraft particulars:
Empty Weight: 1,048 lbs w/o wheel pants/gear leg fairings/paint
Empty CG: 68.79 inches aft of datum (close to forward limit as equipped now)
Gross Weight: 1700 lbs (all loading examples calculated well within CG
range)
Engine: New 180 hp Lycoming w/Lasar from Van's
Prop: New Hartzell Constant Speed from Van's
Type S Cowl (top attached w/ #8 screws and camlocks, airscoop w/#6 screws
only)
Advanced Airflow Sheared Wing Tips (Light Kit not installed yet)
Steps both sides
Elect. Flaps/Trim w/swiitches on Panel
Single Brake System w/Parking Brake
Followng light on rudder bottom
Strobe on Vert Stab w/power supply mounted under tail fairing (fairing fits
pretty well w/o mods)
Firewall Mounted Oil Cooler w/cockpit controllable door
Basic VFR Flight Instruments
G-meter
Navaid Devices A/P (servo not installed yet)
Micro-Monitor Engine Instrument w/4 cyl EGT/CHT switch
Micro Encoder Flight Info Instrument w/back-up ASI and ALT.
Electronics Int'l Fuel Gauge
II Morrrow SL60 Comm/GPS w/Apollo 360 Moving Map
Dorne/Margolin C70-4 Comm Antenna
King KT76C Transponder
ACK ELT
Essential Buss/Aux Electrical Plug
Basic Upholstered Seats by Becky Orndorff w/no sound proofing or firewall
heat shield installed yet
Real Cost to date: More than $60,000 (but don't tell my wife!)
This is the second RV-6A that I have constructed. The first was #20299,
completed April 1992, which won a Champion (Bronze Lindy) at Oshkosh in 1994
and which I subsequently sold in 1995. If this aircraft gives me even half
the pleasure of my first one, I'll be happy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flammable Interiors - Long Rambling |
In a message dated 1/1/2000 10:47:57 AM Central Standard Time,
morristec(at)icdc.com writes:
<<
I used the fire resistant stuff (FAR 25.853 (a) ) and is cost substantially
more, but the quantity of material is small. I just wanted to know that if
there was a cockpit fire, that my seat wasn't going to contribute to the
flames. For those who would permit smoking in the cockpit this is
especially important. A friend nearly crashed, when while in loose
formation with me he dropped a cigarette in his seat, started a fire and had
difficulty controlling the airplane due to fire and smoke. Smoke is another
issue.
Dan Morris
RV-6
>>
I dont know if smoking and flying an Rv or a rocket are the smartest things
to do. My opnion is if you smoke, do it before and after you fly not while
flying the plane. THink about the bad pubilicty this gives pilots. You
crash and kill someone and then it comes out you crashed casue you dropped
your cigarette and it started a fire. That is plane stupidy and will casue
private airplanes to be even more regulated. Plus the lawyer will sue the
pilot and vans for a faulty design etc etc.
just my feelings
Chris Wilcox
F-1 Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Van's Profit |
In a message dated 1/1/2000 10:11:11 AM Central Standard Time,
clhuey(at)sprynet.com writes:
<< Sure do wish he put that .85 cents under handling instead of shipping. Then
this would not even be a issue.
C.H. >>
Yep there where it belongs
Chris Wilcox
F-1 Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator |
In a message dated 1/1/2000 8:01:55 AM Central Standard Time,
dwhite(at)netwalk.com writes:
<< Thanks. The problem was that the display has to be set to either 640 x 480
or 1024 x768. The program will not run except in one of those modes.
It does run fine now, and FS 2000 is a good improvement over previous
versions. However, if you want the best IFR simulation, I'd still go with
Elite. I have that program and use it regularly before and after an
instrument lesson and its very realistic.
>>
Are using FS 2000 or FS 2000 pro. There is a big diffrence in the 2
programs. Also there are some upgrades coming for pro and there is a patch
that fixes most FS 2000 crashes
Chris Wilcox
F-1 Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BEST Value (pricing) |
In a message dated 1/1/2000 8:57:26 AM Central Standard Time,
vondanes(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< I believe that Van's is spending quite a bit of money (profit) on
making the product better, and not turning right around and raising
the price on us. Point in case; Myself and Bob Armstrong are both
building -8A's here in Colorado, our empennage kits are about a year
apart in shipping, his had pre-punched stiffeners, powder coated
elevator horns, and more, and the price was the same... I for one
love the fact that they continue to make the kits easier to build
without a corresponding price increase. And you can't tell me the
equipment needed to fabricate these parts are cheap! >>
the farther along in the production cycle you buy any product they nicer and
more advanced it will be for the same price. The product should alwas
getbetter. I know the f-1 Rockets kits hae changed since i bought the first
one of the line. In fact mine is the protype so I know its not the same as
the the first true one and i know there different know. Thats a fact of
life.
CHris Wilcox
F-1 Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinner(at)vcn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Cleco tool |
Rick,
Thanks for the update on the Speedkleek. You're right, he was a nice
guy. This is the guy that I bought mine from after he demostrated it at
the Boone RV fly-in. Too bad he didn't stay in production.
Andy Johnson sounds like he may have come across a similar tool. I don't
have a current ACS catalog so don't know what the tool is like. Perhaps
yours is the same.
The last two builders that I helped (RV6A and Glastar) each had the
pistol grip air tool. They were either bought from Avery or Cleveland and
both tools stayed in the drawer and were never used. In my opinion, they
were worse than conventional cleco pliers.
Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY (1995 RV6 sold after 4 years & 470 hrs) EAA
Tech Counselor # 3726
>Bob,
>
>Speedcleek has not been manufactured for a number of years. It was made by a
>gentleman that used to live in the Chicago area. After he tried to patent
the
>design he found that existing patents would not allow him to do so. It was
>shortly after that that he quit building the Speedcleek. Since then he
has moved
>to Indiana, sold his RV-6 project and virtually got out of aviation (too bad,
>he's a great guy).
>
>As an aside, I bought the US Tool cleco tool and find it works very well. It
>takes a little getting used to but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.
It sure
>makes building much easier. Plus it is considerably lighter than the
Speekcleek.
>
>Rick McBride
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinner(at)vcn.com> |
Jose,
You can ScotchBrite and acetone the aluminum and achieve similar results.
Then, shoot your primer. No need to etch & alondine (and maybe even
prime). Etching and alondining is time consuming and expensive. The
project takes long enough without adding more build time by etching and
alodining, IMO.
Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY (1995 RV6 sold after 4 years & 470 hrs) EAA
Tech Counselor # 3726
>
>Hi,listeners:
>I cannot buy Alumiprep in Europe, well, Aircraft Spruce dealer can send
>the product with a
>charge of 300$ of shipping cost, a little expensive for me.I can buy
>fosforic acid, so my
>questions are:
>-Does anybody know if the Alumiprep has other products in adition of the
>fosforic acid?
>-Wich is the concentration of the fosforic acid?
>Thanks and happy new year
>Jose del Peso
>RV-8 #80981
>Madrid Spain
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | deburring before or after countersinking |
After enlarging a pre-punched hole to #30 or #40 size, should you deburr
the hole before countersinking, after countersinking or not at all?
(I spent about an hour in the archives but couldn't find this mentioned.)
Thanks,
Mark Schrimmer
RV-9A tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mnellis1(at)mindspring.com |
| Subject: | Re: deburring before or after countersinking |
Deburr the hole before dimpling. If you are countersinking the that will take
care of any deburring that need to be done (at least on the countersunk side).
Hopefully you are dimpling most of your stuff and only countersinking the thicker
aluminum pieces.
I know a guy who countersunk his empenage kit (prior to prepunching) and ended
up having to rebuild the whole tail after the plane was completed.
Mike
rv-list(at)matronics.com wrote:
After enlarging a pre-punched hole to #30 or #40 size, should you deburr
the hole before countersinking, after countersinking or not at all?
(I spent about an hour in the archives but couldn't find this mentioned.)
Thanks,
Mark Schrimmer
RV-9A tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
>
>
>the tarmac on it's purely "unofficial" maiden flight during an intential
>high speed "taxi" run, but if anybody asks, I'll deny it! (This after a "no
>show" on Thursday of one our friendly FAA Aviation Safety Inspectors. No
>phone calls, no emails, no ticket!) All went well and the aircraft
>performed just like any of the other RV's I've flown, which is great! It's
>now in the hangar awaiting the official sign-off. official first flight, and
>a subsequent "official" flight report.
>
Congratulations, Les. Since you 'learned' on your first one, we
expect this one to be even better. You will bring it to Arlington and
park it stage center.
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
http://members.home.net/ammeterj/
1975 Jensen Healey
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
EAA Technical Counselor
NRA Life Member
ICQ#48819374
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)email.msn.com> |
Lister's,
I am installing my Hartzell on my 8A. I have cut the spinner dome to clear
the prop blades. I need to cycle the blades to ensure that I have adequate
clearance between the blades and the spinner dome.
How do I move "twist" the blades through their full range?
Mark Steffensen
8A Cowl, Dallas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wires, Cables, & Firewall |
>
> >What are most people doing to protect and seal the wires and cables going
> >through the firewall?
>
>I think most people are using the stainless firewall shields and grommets,
>although based on past threads about this (there have been several), I'm not
>the only one who wishes there was a better solution.
I decided that these were a silly idea since the firewall hole is so big
and there is still a thin steel edge close to the cable.
I used 2 inch pieces of heavy rubber hose for grommets. To keep these from
falling out I will put something on the hose on each side such as hose
clamp, piece of thick aluminum tubing or ????
The eyeball things look good but are way too high priced.
Notice how they do it with house wiring thru the box but these are too heavy.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: deburring before or after countersinking |
In a message dated 1/1/00 7:46:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mschrimmer(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< After enlarging a pre-punched hole to #30 or #40 size, should you deburr
the hole before countersinking, after countersinking or not at all >>
If you're machine countersinking, you won't need to deburr the countersunk
side. You will need to deburr the other side. Before or after doesn't
really matter in this case. On skins (in particular the .032 we deal with on
the RV's), you'll need to be very careful in your countersinking and
deburring to avoid enlarging the hole.
If you're dimple countersinking, deburr before dimpling. It is easier, and
takes away potential stress risers which could (not likely, but it does
happen) cause a crack when you dimple..
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: deburring before or after countersinking |
Mark, I recommend deburring the backside of the hole before c'sinking. The
front side doesn't need it because the c'sink will debur it.
Rick Caldwell
RV-6 No more excuses to postpone first taxi test tomorrow.
Melbourne, FL
>From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: deburring before or after countersinking
>Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 16:23:12 -0800
>
>
>After enlarging a pre-punched hole to #30 or #40 size, should you deburr
>the hole before countersinking, after countersinking or not at all?
>
>(I spent about an hour in the archives but couldn't find this mentioned.)
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mark Schrimmer
>RV-9A tail
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell Prop |
Mark, I just did this yesterday with my new CS prop on my o-320. i used my
hands & arms, about 6 - 8" from the blade root. The prop moves slow so
don't expect it to jump any. I checked interference, filed more and
repeated intil 1/8" clearance. Oh yea, I weigh 132#, so if I can move the
prop, about anyone can.
Rick Caldwell
RV-6 gettin' there
Melbourne, FL
>From: "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)email.msn.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Hartzell Prop
>Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 18:40:01 -0600
>
>
>Lister's,
>
>I am installing my Hartzell on my 8A. I have cut the spinner dome to clear
>the prop blades. I need to cycle the blades to ensure that I have adequate
>clearance between the blades and the spinner dome.
>
>How do I move "twist" the blades through their full range?
>
>Mark Steffensen
>8A Cowl, Dallas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: deburring before or after countersinking |
>
>After enlarging a pre-punched hole to #30 or #40 size, should you deburr
>the hole before countersinking, after countersinking or not at all?
>
>(I spent about an hour in the archives but couldn't find this mentioned.)
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mark Schrimmer
Hi Mark,
For machine countersinking, I don't deburr the side to be
countersunk, as a lot of material gets removed in that area anyway.
I do deburr the other side, usually before countersinking, but I
don't think it makes much difference whether you do it before or
after. For machine countersinking thin material, I get the best
results by clamping a thick piece of scrap with a hole in it behind
the material to be countersunk. The hole in the scrap helps guide
the cutter, and keep it from walking sideways and making an oval
shaped countersink. I also use a variable speed drill at fairly slow
speed. If I use an air drill, I find that the countersink cage tends
to get pretty warm if I am doing a lot of holes.
For dimple countersinking, I deburr both sides before dimpling.
Have fun, and Happy New Year,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (putting bulkheads in fuselage jig)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: deburring before or after countersinking |
I would debur BEFORE dimpeling. I assume that is what you mean as
countersinking a hole is like overdoing a deburing job.
When you debur before, you will end up with a small resess around the
dimpled hole at the side where the bucked tail goes.
trying to do this after dimpeling will take a lot of off the back of the
dimple. It is also a lot harder to debur inside the dimple where the
head goes after the dimple has been made.
Gert
Mark Schrimmer wrote:
>
>
> After enlarging a pre-punched hole to #30 or #40 size, should you deburr
> the hole before countersinking, after countersinking or not at all?
>
> (I spent about an hour in the archives but couldn't find this mentioned.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark Schrimmer
> RV-9A tail
>
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell Prop |
--- Mark Steffensen wrote:
> Lister's,
>
> I am installing my Hartzell on my 8A. I have cut the
> spinner dome to clear
> the prop blades. I need to cycle the blades to
> ensure that I have adequate
> clearance between the blades and the spinner dome.
>
> How do I move "twist" the blades through their full
> range?
>
> Mark Steffensen
> 8A Cowl, Dallas
Mark:
The prop can be twisted by hand from stop to stop with
some effort.
So that I could do it with one hand and use the other
to mark, I made a blade turning handle. I used 2
three foot long firing strips (1" X 2") that had 2
small spacers (one on each side of the prop blade)
that would spread the two boards (now the handle)
around the prop. Hope this makes sense. BE CAREFUL
so that you do not scratch the finish on the prop.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
So. CA, USA
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | oops rivets and platenuts |
For those of you who have not tried this, Van's sells some oops rivets that
are 3/32 with a smaller head. They are perfect for platenuts, as you don't
have to countersink the holes. All you need to do is give the hole a touch
with a deburring tool. It really makes installing many platenuts much
faster. I wish I would have got these earlier in the project.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | atravelair(at)juno.com |
Cheers, has anyone replaced their RV6A nose gear re: Vans service
bulletin, if so what
did it cost and what all is involved? Maybe just inspected ?
atravelair(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Now I've Heard It All |
What, did we run out of things to complain about in 1999???
Should we damn a company because they price their product at a price that the
market will bear? Do you complain when you buy a pair of nice shoes that
Timberland makes too much profit? If you do, get a life.
We live in a self-adjusting, capitalistic market. If the market decides that
a company is gouging its customers they go elsewhere. If there is nowhere
else to go (i.e. Microsoft) you pay your money and ENJOY your new purchase.
If you become dissatisfied with the product and/or pricing and decide to
compete by providing a better product at a better price you become a hero.
Flying beats bitching. Happy New Year.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
Over 300 happy hours flying an inexpensive aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pat_hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell Prop |
Mark:
Get yourself a helper and each of you should "twist" opposite blades.
Others have suggested using two 2X4s clamped together but this is not
necessary unless you don't have a helper. You will be surprised how easy
the blades turn when two people are doing it. By the way, there is some
info on this in the archives too. The blades will spring back slowly to low
pitch when you let go.
Pat Hatch
RV-4, N17PH @ VRB
RV-6, N44PH (res.), Wing Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Steffensen <steffco1(at)email.msn.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 7:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: Hartzell Prop
>
> Lister's,
>
> I am installing my Hartzell on my 8A. I have cut the spinner dome to clear
> the prop blades. I need to cycle the blades to ensure that I have adequate
> clearance between the blades and the spinner dome.
>
> How do I move "twist" the blades through their full range?
>
> Mark Steffensen
> 8A Cowl, Dallas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | wing tip fairings |
Hi Dennis,
i saw the post o\about sanding the wing tip fairings.
When installing the fairings do you cut a hole for most of the fairing and
install it from the back side or do you just attach it from the outside and
sand smooth?
Thanks for any tips.
John Danielson
RV-6 emp done, wings 75%, fuselage ordered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rv-List: Re: Stopped vs Windmilling Prop |
I received the following the other day from a fellow builder that was
reviewing my POH. I'm interested in comments regarding this issue. Do any
of you have good data that would support and/or refute either school of
thought?
-GV
<< There is a misconception that a stopped prop produces more drag than a
windmilling one. I think that you will find this to be reversed, actually a
windmilling propeller produces much more drag than a stopped propeller. >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Wires, Cables, & Firewall |
> find. But actually the stainless shields would be a whole lot better if
> they just had curled edges. I have seen ones like that on Cessnas but the
> ones Vans (and Spruce, Chief, etc.) sells have just the sharp edges.
> Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~50 hrs)
Amen, Randall. Where I am concerned about the sharp edge I
have used a piece of that nylon grommet strip that looks like a
caterpillar, and lined the shield hole with it.
Peter Bennett
RV6 Sydney
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRawls3896(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fuel tank sending units |
I received my wing kit last week and completed the inventory. Every thing
on the ticker sheet was there. I didn't find the fuel tank sending units in
the kit nor were they mentioned on the ticker sheet. Do I order them separate
or can I pick them up locally?
Just getting started on wings
Mike Rawls
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: deburring before or after countersinking |
guys here is the skinny on your question you should
always debur the hole after drilling and then dimple
the hole, prime the part on the inside and for a nice
touch to make the rivet head go flush with the outside
material debur the dimple you made with about 1 and a
quarter turns with your deburr tool you should see no
metal being removed and when you buck the rivet damn
it looks good.
Glenn Williams
8A wings
A&P mechanic
FT. WORTH, TX.
--- Gert wrote:
>
>
> I would debur BEFORE dimpeling. I assume that is
> what you mean as
> countersinking a hole is like overdoing a deburing
> job.
>
> When you debur before, you will end up with a small
> resess around the
> dimpled hole at the side where the bucked tail goes.
>
> trying to do this after dimpeling will take a lot of
> off the back of the
> dimple. It is also a lot harder to debur inside the
> dimple where the
> head goes after the dimple has been made.
>
> Gert
>
> Mark Schrimmer wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > After enlarging a pre-punched hole to #30 or #40
> size, should you deburr
> > the hole before countersinking, after
> countersinking or not at all?
> >
> > (I spent about an hour in the archives but
> couldn't find this mentioned.)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mark Schrimmer
> > RV-9A tail
> >
>
> --
>
> Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter
> II, '227,
> any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to
> this address
> is subject to a download and archival fee in the
> amount of $500
> US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
>
> Settlement...
> http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html
>
>
>
>
>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank sending units |
had to order mine from vans they are not shipped with
the basic airframe kit
Glenn Williams
8a Wings
Ft. Worth, TX.
--- MRawls3896(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I received my wing kit last week and completed
> the inventory. Every thing
> on the ticker sheet was there. I didn't find the
> fuel tank sending units in
> the kit nor were they mentioned on the ticker sheet.
> Do I order them separate
> or can I pick them up locally?
>
> Just getting started on wings
> Mike Rawls
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
>
> Settlement...
> http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html
>
>
>
>
>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: deburring before or after countersinking |
>
>guys here is the skinny on your question you should
>always debur the hole after drilling and then dimple
>the hole, prime the part on the inside and for a nice
>touch to make the rivet head go flush with the outside
>material debur the dimple you made with about 1 and a
>quarter turns with your deburr tool you should see no
>metal being removed and when you buck the rivet damn
>it looks good.
>Glenn Williams
>8A wings
>A&P mechanic
>FT. WORTH, TX.
Sorry, Glenn, but that's serious overkill.
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
http://members.home.net/ammeterj/
1975 Jensen Healey
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
EAA Technical Counselor
NRA Life Member
ICQ#48819374
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank sending units |
Some builders do not want the float type senders, so they left them out. I
ended up ordering the float ones from Van's anyway. Check the archives on
it, there is alot of information on capacitance senders.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: <MRawls3896(at)aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 9:04 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fuel tank sending units
>
> I received my wing kit last week and completed the inventory. Every
thing
> on the ticker sheet was there. I didn't find the fuel tank sending units
in
> the kit nor were they mentioned on the ticker sheet. Do I order them
separate
> or can I pick them up locally?
>
> Just getting started on wings
> Mike Rawls
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Baffle and ring gear clearance |
The way that my baffles came together relative to the cowl, the clearance on
one side of the ring gear is only about 1/2". Any flyers out there that
have minimal clearance there? Is there enough engine vibration where the
baffle might rub against the gear?
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: deburring before or after countersinking |
it may be overkill but you will have a beautiful
finished component that when painted you will barely
notice the rivet is there and you might just pick up
an award or two along the way at the future airshows
you attend once again this is just a suggestion and is
how I am doing my kit. By the way if you watch the
orndorf videos, George describes this very early on in
the empennage tape. Well worth the money to buy his
tapes.
Glenn Williams
8A wings
A&P Mechanic
Ft. Worth, Tx.
--- John Ammeter wrote:
> (John Ammeter)
>
>
>
> >
> >guys here is the skinny on your question you should
> >always debur the hole after drilling and then
> dimple
> >the hole, prime the part on the inside and for a
> nice
> >touch to make the rivet head go flush with the
> outside
> >material debur the dimple you made with about 1 and
> a
> >quarter turns with your deburr tool you should see
> no
> >metal being removed and when you buck the rivet
> damn
> >it looks good.
> >Glenn Williams
> >8A wings
> >A&P mechanic
> >FT. WORTH, TX.
>
> Sorry, Glenn, but that's serious overkill.
>
>
> John Ammeter
> Seattle WA
> USA
> http://members.home.net/ammeterj/
> 1975 Jensen Healey
> RV-6 (sold 4/98)
> EAA Technical Counselor
> NRA Life Member
> ICQ#48819374
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
>
> Settlement...
> http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html
>
>
>
>
>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A nose gear |
Van's has an inspection kit they can send you. It is a special two part
paint that will show cracks. I did it on mine, as I bought an older gear
and engine mount from another builder. From what I recall, most people that
did the inspection with the kit that Van's sends did not find any material
flaws. If there is a flaw at the inspection point, then only the gear leg
will need to be replaced.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: <atravelair(at)juno.com>
Sent: Friday, January 01, 1999 7:42 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV6A nose gear
>
> Cheers, has anyone replaced their RV6A nose gear re: Vans service
> bulletin, if so what
> did it cost and what all is involved? Maybe just inspected ?
>
> atravelair(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | meketa <acgm(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Profit (Way Too long) |
>Just thought I would let everyone know that I did a little experiment.
>Paul Besing
>A great design is one thing, but I can't feel good about a company that >is marking
there merchandise up 83%. I feel that's loansharking.
>Carey Mills
>The kit costs more anyway when you consider
>the cost of the parts you buy several times.
>Mark Dickens
>The problem is that the items you *can't* get anywhere else, i.e. Van's >parts.
And the gouging going on with shipping and crating charges on >small orders.
Simple things like a better system than 200 little brown >bags that don't tell
you what's in them. A few extra rivets and >platenuts to make sure that you
have enough, instead of *exactly* the >right amount called for on the plans.
It's the little things like >that in addition to the larger things like better
quality manuals and >plans that make a difference.
>Paul Besing
Hello Yall
People always complain about politicians. The truth is that people
really want to be lied to. They want to be told what they want to hear
and not the truth.
Maybe Van's should not charge the crating charge or shipping. He must
then hide it in the kit price. Better yet, just add it all to the finish
kit price so you have no choice but to pay after getting everything else
so cheaply.
Van's is just charging what it takes to supply the part and you see it
up front on the bill. The price to package and ship the part has nothing
to do with the selling price of the part. It costs money to keep
packaging containers, labels, invoices, telephones, storage for these
items, etc. This does not even consider the personel to do these
services. An employee at $9.00 per hour costs the employer at least
$13.50 per hour out of pocket. How long does it take to answer the
phone, take the order, enter the order, pull the part, package the part,
label the box, ship the part. This all sounds like more than four
dollars to me.
The parts markup is also reasonable. Again, it costs a lot of money to
be in business. Parts markup is the only way Van's has to bring in
income. Take the cost on all items and add the cost of personel, runway,
company aircraft, insurance, fabrication equipment, buildings, R&D etc.
The 83% is not out of line. I am sure the people complaining have never
run a succesful business or have any realistic idea what it takes to do
so.
The price of the kit is a bargain. Any parts I have had to reorder have
been my fault and they are reasonably priced. I agree the manual is not
detailed, but the plans are more than adequate. I mainly the plans and
rarely find need to open the manual any more. The bags of parts are also
adequate. After seperating the common hardware into bins (nuts, bolts,
washers, nutplates, etc.) I have few bags left. There is an inventory
sheet supplied to let us know what is in the bags. If nothing else, it
teaches us to identify aircraft hardware by AN number. What do the
complainers want Van's to do. There do not seem to be any great
shortages of parts. Watch as you go and order more if neccessary. A nice
note to Van's might help if there it truely a shortage. I have found
them to be very helpful.
We are building airplanes not just assembling kits. The quick build is
easy enough. If it were easier it would not be any fun. The journey
teaches us many things. Planing ahead, budgeting time and money,
learning new building skills, dealing with suppliers, and living with
ones decisions are but a few. If it was cheap and easy it would not be a
journey.
Sorry to be so long. Others have done well setting the record straight.
I just had to voice my opinions.
George Meketa (small business owner)
RV8-QB fuelage-panel and mounting empenage
P.S. Flying Beats Bitching (GARY CORTE)
Right On!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinner(at)vcn.com> |
Jose,
You can ScotchBrite and acetone the aluminum and achieve similar results.
Then, shoot your primer. No need to etch & alondine (and maybe even
prime). Etching and alondining is time consuming and expensive. The
project takes long enough without adding more build time by etching and
alodining, IMO.
Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY (1995 RV6 sold after 4 years & 470 hrs) EAA
Tech Counselor # 3726
>
>Hi,listeners:
>I cannot buy Alumiprep in Europe, well, Aircraft Spruce dealer can send
>the product with a
>charge of 300$ of shipping cost, a little expensive for me.I can buy
>fosforic acid, so my
>questions are:
>-Does anybody know if the Alumiprep has other products in adition of the
>fosforic acid?
>-Wich is the concentration of the fosforic acid?
>Thanks and happy new year
>Jose del Peso
>RV-8 #80981
>Madrid Spain
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pat_hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell Prop |
Mark:
Get yourself a helper and each of you should "twist" opposite blades.
Others have suggested using two 2X4s clamped together but this is not
necessary unless you don't have a helper. You will be surprised how easy
the blades turn when two people are doing it. By the way, there is some
info on this in the archives too. The blades will spring back slowly to low
pitch when you let go.
Pat Hatch
RV-4, N17PH @ VRB
RV-6, N44PH (res.), Wing Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Steffensen <steffco1(at)email.msn.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 7:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: Hartzell Prop
>
> Lister's,
>
> I am installing my Hartzell on my 8A. I have cut the spinner dome to clear
> the prop blades. I need to cycle the blades to ensure that I have adequate
> clearance between the blades and the spinner dome.
>
> How do I move "twist" the blades through their full range?
>
> Mark Steffensen
> 8A Cowl, Dallas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <rv8abuild(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wires, Cables, & Firewall |
Rubber grommett covered with stainless steel firewall shield.
Jerry Carter
8A, wing attachments
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 10:14 AM
Subject: RV-List: Wires, Cables, & Firewall
>
> What are most people doing to protect and seal the wires and cables going
> through the firewall?
>
>
> Jim Cimino
> RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL Reserved
> http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
> (570)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <rv8abuild(at)mindspring.com> |
Dick:
My fuse DID have a small pilot hole. I made a bunch of measurements, and it
looked right, so I drilled it out to 1 inch for the grommett to fit in (I
decided not to use a bulkhead fitting). Since I am presently attaching the
wings, I know that this hole is in the right place - it seems to line up
with the fitting on the fuel tank just right. I am at work now, but if I
don't read a better answer to you tonight, I will measure exactly where this
hole is, and tell you tomorrow. Then you can double check it with the
location of the fitting on your wing and do the mental math.
Jerry Carter
8A fuse
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard White <chiefs(at)teleport.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Lines
>
> Jerry...
>
> I am building an RV-8QB and am looking at installing the fuel lines. From
> what I have looked at so far there isn't much information as where to
locate
> the holes in the fuse for the lines. Is there somewhere that you are
aware
> of that the locations are noted with measurements? It has been a few days
> since I looked at this, but from what I remember, the book just said
install
> fuel selector and lines, the drawing showed prepunched holes, but my fuse
> doesn't have the holes shown on the drawings.
>
> Dick White
> RV-8QB systems
> Newport,OR
>
> DNA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jerry Carter <rv8abuild(at)mindspring.com>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 1999 7:15 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Fuel Lines
>
>
> >
> > I'm plumbing the fuel lines from the fuel selector valve in my 8A QB.
Has
> > anyone used a bulkhead fitting wher the line penetrates the fuselage
> > instead of the little rubber grommet supplied? Otherwise, I would have
> > about five inches of 3\8" aluminum tubing sticking out of the side of
the
> > fuse, and this would seem awkward when attaching the wings to the fuse.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jerry Carter
> > RV-8A
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com.Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:39:52.-0800.Sat(at)matronics.com, |
1 Jan 2000 22:38:13.-0800.Sat(at)matronics.com,
1 Jan 2000 21:36:29.-0800(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | wing tip fairings |
Hi Dennis,
i saw the post o\about sanding the wing tip fairings.
When installing the fairings do you cut a hole for most of the fairing and
install it from the back side or do you just attach it from the outside and
sand smooth?
Thanks for any tips.
John Danielson
RV-6 emp done, wings 75%, fuselage ordered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com.Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:46:45.-0800.Sat(at)matronics.com, |
1 Jan 2000 22:42:19.-0800.Sat(at)matronics.com,
1 Jan 2000 21:40:16.-0800(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Rv-List: Re: Stopped vs Windmilling Prop |
I received the following the other day from a fellow builder that was
reviewing my POH. I'm interested in comments regarding this issue. Do any
of you have good data that would support and/or refute either school of
thought?
-GV
<< There is a misconception that a stopped prop produces more drag than a
windmilling one. I think that you will find this to be reversed, actually a
windmilling propeller produces much more drag than a stopped propeller. >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com.Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:46:36.-0800.Sat(at)matronics.com, |
1 Jan 2000 22:41:35.-0800.Sat(at)matronics.com,
1 Jan 2000 21:37:00.-0800(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: deburring before or after countersinking |
In a message dated 1/1/00 7:46:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mschrimmer(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< After enlarging a pre-punched hole to #30 or #40 size, should you deburr
the hole before countersinking, after countersinking or not at all >>
If you're machine countersinking, you won't need to deburr the countersunk
side. You will need to deburr the other side. Before or after doesn't
really matter in this case. On skins (in particular the .032 we deal with on
the RV's), you'll need to be very careful in your countersinking and
deburring to avoid enlarging the hole.
If you're dimple countersinking, deburr before dimpling. It is easier, and
takes away potential stress risers which could (not likely, but it does
happen) cause a crack when you dimple..
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank sending units |
Some builders do not want the float type senders, so they left them out. I
ended up ordering the float ones from Van's anyway. Check the archives on
it, there is alot of information on capacitance senders.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: <MRawls3896(at)aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 9:04 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fuel tank sending units
>
> I received my wing kit last week and completed the inventory. Every
thing
> on the ticker sheet was there. I didn't find the fuel tank sending units
in
> the kit nor were they mentioned on the ticker sheet. Do I order them
separate
> or can I pick them up locally?
>
> Just getting started on wings
> Mike Rawls
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au.Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:47:46.-0800.Sat(at)matronics.com, |
1 Jan 2000 22:41:37.-0800.Sat(at)matronics.com,
1 Jan 2000 21:38:07.-0800(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Wires, Cables, & Firewall |
> find. But actually the stainless shields would be a whole lot better if
> they just had curled edges. I have seen ones like that on Cessnas but the
> ones Vans (and Spruce, Chief, etc.) sells have just the sharp edges.
> Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~50 hrs)
Amen, Randall. Where I am concerned about the sharp edge I
have used a piece of that nylon grommet strip that looks like a
caterpillar, and lined the shield hole with it.
Peter Bennett
RV6 Sydney
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank sending units |
had to order mine from vans they are not shipped with
the basic airframe kit
Glenn Williams
8a Wings
Ft. Worth, TX.
--- MRawls3896(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I received my wing kit last week and completed
> the inventory. Every thing
> on the ticker sheet was there. I didn't find the
> fuel tank sending units in
> the kit nor were they mentioned on the ticker sheet.
> Do I order them separate
> or can I pick them up locally?
>
> Just getting started on wings
> Mike Rawls
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
>
> Settlement...
> http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html
>
>
>
>
>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: deburring before or after countersinking |
guys here is the skinny on your question you should
always debur the hole after drilling and then dimple
the hole, prime the part on the inside and for a nice
touch to make the rivet head go flush with the outside
material debur the dimple you made with about 1 and a
quarter turns with your deburr tool you should see no
metal being removed and when you buck the rivet damn
it looks good.
Glenn Williams
8A wings
A&P mechanic
FT. WORTH, TX.
--- Gert wrote:
>
>
> I would debur BEFORE dimpeling. I assume that is
> what you mean as
> countersinking a hole is like overdoing a deburing
> job.
>
> When you debur before, you will end up with a small
> resess around the
> dimpled hole at the side where the bucked tail goes.
>
> trying to do this after dimpeling will take a lot of
> off the back of the
> dimple. It is also a lot harder to debur inside the
> dimple where the
> head goes after the dimple has been made.
>
> Gert
>
> Mark Schrimmer wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > After enlarging a pre-punched hole to #30 or #40
> size, should you deburr
> > the hole before countersinking, after
> countersinking or not at all?
> >
> > (I spent about an hour in the archives but
> couldn't find this mentioned.)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mark Schrimmer
> > RV-9A tail
> >
>
> --
>
> Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter
> II, '227,
> any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to
> this address
> is subject to a download and archival fee in the
> amount of $500
> US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
>
> Settlement...
> http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html
>
>
>
>
>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRawls3896(at)aol.com.Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:51:47.-0800.Sat(at)matronics.com, |
1 Jan 2000 22:42:22.-0800.Sat(at)matronics.com,
1 Jan 2000 21:38:22.-0800(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Fuel tank sending units |
I received my wing kit last week and completed the inventory. Every thing
on the ticker sheet was there. I didn't find the fuel tank sending units in
the kit nor were they mentioned on the ticker sheet. Do I order them separate
or can I pick them up locally?
Just getting started on wings
Mike Rawls
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rv-List: Re: Stopped vs Windmilling Prop |
>
>I received the following the other day from a fellow builder that was
>reviewing my POH. I'm interested in comments regarding this issue. Do any
>of you have good data that would support and/or refute either school of
>thought?
>
>-GV
>
><< There is a misconception that a stopped prop produces more drag than a
>windmilling one. I think that you will find this to be reversed, actually a
>windmilling propeller produces much more drag than a stopped propeller. >>
A fellow had an article few years ago in one of the flying mag. showing
a batch live tests and the results he found. What was always taught years
ago seemed to be proven by this fellow, that there is less drag with a prop
stopped. The tests were done with a fixed pitch prop as I recall. I will
try to find it, if still have the article.
Have a good day!
Denny Harjehausen
RV-6 EAA 1183 OR.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
| Subject: | Re: deburring before or after countersinking |
In a message dated 1/1/00 7:46:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mschrimmer(at)earthlink.net writes:
After enlarging a pre-punched hole to #30 or #40 size, should you deburr
the hole before countersinking, after countersinking or not at all
==========================================================
One thing that has saved me some time on dimpled holes is to only deburr
the outside of the hole. Provided there are no "obvious" burrs on the
inside, go ahead and dimple, then buff the inside of the dimples with a
scotchbrite pad- either before or after pulling the plastic off.
Deburrs the inside of the dimples quite nicely...
From the PossumWorks
Mark - 6A, on hold for family matters...Hope y'all had a great holiday!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A nose gear |
I replaced my RV-6A Nose gear even though I had dye inspected one that had
less that 30 landings and it came out fine. It cost me around $114 at the
time for the new beefer nose gear and shipping. But I also had Van match
drill the gear rotation stop piece (can't remember the part number) because
the bolt that holds it to the gear is now drilled 90deg further around the
rod, this ran the bill up to around $140 or so for all parts and the
drilling. Did not want to go through the trouble of continious inspections
to comply with the service bulletin. Took the nose gear off the rod and
unbolted the one bolt holding the gear in the mount and replaced it.
Simple, quick, reasonable cost and peace of mind.
Ed Anderson
Matthews NC
>
> Cheers, has anyone replaced their RV6A nose gear re: Vans service
> bulletin, if so what
> did it cost and what all is involved? Maybe just inspected ?
>
> atravelair(at)juno.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard White" <chiefs(at)teleport.com> |
Jerry...
Thanks for the info... the problem was me and my plans. Sometimes...(lots
for me) I get confused looking at the plans and trying to find the model
that I am working on. I must have been looking at a side panel for
something else. It had three pre drilled holes. After I sorted it out, I
found I have the holes that I need.
Dick White
RV-8QB systems
Newport, OR
DNA
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Carter <rv8abuild(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Lines
>
> Dick:
>
> My fuse DID have a small pilot hole. I made a bunch of measurements, and
it
> looked right, so I drilled it out to 1 inch for the grommett to fit in (I
> decided not to use a bulkhead fitting). Since I am presently attaching the
> wings, I know that this hole is in the right place - it seems to line up
> with the fitting on the fuel tank just right. I am at work now, but if I
> don't read a better answer to you tonight, I will measure exactly where
this
> hole is, and tell you tomorrow. Then you can double check it with the
> location of the fitting on your wing and do the mental math.
>
> Jerry Carter
> 8A fuse
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard White <chiefs(at)teleport.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 11:07 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Lines
>
>
> >
> > Jerry...
> >
> > I am building an RV-8QB and am looking at installing the fuel lines.
From
> > what I have looked at so far there isn't much information as where to
> locate
> > the holes in the fuse for the lines. Is there somewhere that you are
> aware
> > of that the locations are noted with measurements? It has been a few
days
> > since I looked at this, but from what I remember, the book just said
> install
> > fuel selector and lines, the drawing showed prepunched holes, but my
fuse
> > doesn't have the holes shown on the drawings.
> >
> > Dick White
> > RV-8QB systems
> > Newport,OR
> >
> > DNA
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jerry Carter <rv8abuild(at)mindspring.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 1999 7:15 PM
> > Subject: RV-List: Fuel Lines
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I'm plumbing the fuel lines from the fuel selector valve in my 8A QB.
> Has
> > > anyone used a bulkhead fitting wher the line penetrates the fuselage
> > > instead of the little rubber grommet supplied? Otherwise, I would
have
> > > about five inches of 3\8" aluminum tubing sticking out of the side of
> the
> > > fuse, and this would seem awkward when attaching the wings to the
fuse.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Jerry Carter
> > > RV-8A
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard White" <chiefs(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rv-List: Re: Stopped vs Windmilling Prop |
I always thought a windmilling prop had more drag because it was
pulling/pushing a dead engine with all that compression from the
cylinders.\\\
Dick White
RV8-QB systems
Newport, OR
Dna
----- Original Message -----
From: <Vanremog(at)aol.com.Sat>; <1 Jan 2000 22:46:45.-0800.Sat(at)matronics.com>;
<1 Jan 2000 22:42:19.-0800.Sat(at)matronics.com>; <1 Jan 2000
21:40:16.-0800(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 7:31 PM
Subject: RV-List: Rv-List: Re: Stopped vs Windmilling Prop
>
>
> I received the following the other day from a fellow builder that was
> reviewing my POH. I'm interested in comments regarding this issue. Do
any
> of you have good data that would support and/or refute either school of
> thought?
>
> -GV
>
> << There is a misconception that a stopped prop produces more drag than a
> windmilling one. I think that you will find this to be reversed, actually
a
> windmilling propeller produces much more drag than a stopped propeller. >>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick McBride <rickrv8(at)qwestinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Cleco tool |
The cleco tool sold by ACS is the same tool manufacture under US Tool's name.
It
sells for around $85 +-.
Bob Skinner wrote:
>
> Rick,
> Thanks for the update on the Speedkleek. You're right, he was a nice
> guy. This is the guy that I bought mine from after he demostrated it at
> the Boone RV fly-in. Too bad he didn't stay in production.
> Andy Johnson sounds like he may have come across a similar tool. I don't
> have a current ACS catalog so don't know what the tool is like. Perhaps
> yours is the same.
> The last two builders that I helped (RV6A and Glastar) each had the
> pistol grip air tool. They were either bought from Avery or Cleveland and
> both tools stayed in the drawer and were never used. In my opinion, they
> were worse than conventional cleco pliers.
>
> Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY (1995 RV6 sold after 4 years & 470 hrs) EAA
> Tech Counselor # 3726
>
> >Bob,
> >
> >Speedcleek has not been manufactured for a number of years. It was made by
a
> >gentleman that used to live in the Chicago area. After he tried to patent
> the
> >design he found that existing patents would not allow him to do so. It was
> >shortly after that that he quit building the Speedcleek. Since then he
> has moved
> >to Indiana, sold his RV-6 project and virtually got out of aviation (too bad,
> >he's a great guy).
> >
> >As an aside, I bought the US Tool cleco tool and find it works very well. It
> >takes a little getting used to but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.
> It sure
> >makes building much easier. Plus it is considerably lighter than the
> Speekcleek.
> >
> >Rick McBride
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Baffle and ring gear clearance |
>From: "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "RV List"
>Subject: RV-List: Baffle and ring gear clearance
>Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:20:25 -0700
>
>
>The way that my baffles came together relative to the cowl, the clearance
>on
>one side of the ring gear is only about 1/2". Any flyers out there that
>have minimal clearance there? Is there enough engine vibration where the
>baffle might rub against the gear?
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>http://members.home.net/rv8er
>Finish Kit
Paul,
My baffles are pretty close up there as well. No problems so far after a
whopping five hours total time. Since the baffles are attached to the
engine, they will move with it as it rocks, wobbles and shudders.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GStorey826(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A nose gear |
Locally, just inspected. The only one I knew that was exchanged is a new 6A
being built down the taxiway. He will finish his sometime this year, so he
just exchanged with Van.
I had enough football yesterday, got to get out today.
Have a great day,
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wing tip fairings |
-----Original Message-----
From: JDaniel343(at)aol.com <JDaniel343(at)aol.com>
Date: Saturday, January 01, 2000 9:36 PM
Subject: RV-List: wing tip fairings
>
>Hi Dennis,
>i saw the post o\about sanding the wing tip fairings.
>When installing the fairings do you cut a hole for most of the fairing and
>install it from the back side or do you just attach it from the outside and
>sand smooth?
>Thanks for any tips.
>John Danielson
>RV-6 emp done, wings 75%, fuselage ordered
The instructions that come with the wing tip nav light fairings say to trace
the outline on the outside of the tip, then cut out a hole 1/16 smaller.
You then insert the fairings from the inside and epoxy them on.
I drilled mine on from the outside and used Clecoes every 2 1/2 inches. Use
masking tape to get them aligned so they look good before drilling. I cut
out a hole about 1 3/4 inches in diameter into the tip to let the front bulb
housing and wires through.
Then I dipped the Clecoe ends in SAE 10 motor oil, buttered up the wing tips
and the fairings with West System epoxy, and Clecoed the fairings on.
I put two layers of 8 oz BID around the edge and used the palm sander to
feather them in. Two layers of dry micro sanded mostly off and I was done!
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A nose gear |
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)home.com>
Date: Saturday, January 01, 2000 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6A nose gear
>
>Van's has an inspection kit they can send you. It is a special two part
>paint that will show cracks. I did it on mine, as I bought an older gear
>and engine mount from another builder. From what I recall, most people
that
>did the inspection with the kit that Van's sends did not find any material
>flaws. If there is a flaw at the inspection point, then only the gear leg
>will need to be replaced.
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>http://members.home.net/rv8er
>Finish Kit
>
But I believe that the failure mode is low-cycle fatigue. Thus you won't
see dye penetrant-revealed cracks on an un-flown gear. Just because the
gear is OK now doesn't mean it won't fatigue during the next year's flying.
I had no way of knowing if mine was one of the few bad ones, so I opted for
a new gear leg.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Juli & Charlie" <kearns(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Whelen Strobe pack for Sale |
-----Original Message-----
From: Juli & Charlie <kearns(at)gte.net>
Date: Saturday, January 01, 2000 9:35 PM
Subject: Whelen Strobe pack for Sale
>I have one (1) Whelen Strobe pack for sale. It is a A490 TS-CF-14 to 28.
>Translated this means a wingtip mounted Comet Flash power supply. I am
>asking $200.00 and I will ship it to you.
>
>Thanks
>
>Charlie Kearns
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
| Subject: | Re: oops rivets and platenuts |
Paul: Thanks for the tip ! I will be using a lot of platenuts since the
decision has been made to replace the rivets on my wingtips with screws and
placenuts.
Tom in Ohio ( RV6-A-QB)
----------
> From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)home.com>
> To: RV List
> Subject: RV-List: oops rivets and platenuts
> Date: Saturday, January 01, 2000 9:36 PM
>
>
> For those of you who have not tried this, Van's sells some oops rivets
that
> are 3/32 with a smaller head. They are perfect for platenuts, as you
don't
> have to countersink the holes. All you need to do is give the hole a
touch
> with a deburring tool. It really makes installing many platenuts much
> faster. I wish I would have got these earlier in the project.
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
> http://members.home.net/rv8er
> Finish Kit
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Cleco tool |
>
>The cleco tool sold by ACS is the same tool manufacture under US Tool's
name. It
>sells for around $85 +-.
>
>Bob Skinner wrote
###I have US tool one used on one RV-6 that I would sell for $50.00
plus
shipping (No Handleing)
Works fine!
Have a good day!
Denny Harjehausen
RV-6 EAA 1183 OR.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6A nose gear |
Speaking of nose gear, have any of you had any fore and aft shimmy (not
lateral, not the wheel, but the whole nose gear) ???/
I sometimes notice some fore and aft shaking while slowing through about
15-20 mph.
By watching from the outside, with another pilot in the plane, I can plainly
see that it is the entire nose wheel assembly moving.
Any others, any solutions??
hilljw(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KAKlewin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Elev. Counterweights Questions... |
Quick question on Elev. Counterweights......first anyone have a guess at to
what I should torque the bolts that hold it down to..cant find any specs in
the directions...any generic ideas?? From previous posts I have seen some
concern about the bolts working themselves loose and jamming the elev., any
ideas on keeping them locked down if we are planning on using pop-rivits for
the faring and micro-ballooning in the opening which would preclude
inspection?? Also, for those of you who have flown your aircraft without
paint and then painted later, how much weight did you have to add/subtract to
rebalance your elevators?? Thanks as always for the inputs.....
Kurt, OKC, OK
Finishing 6A Emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell Prop |
----------Oh yea, I weigh 132#, so if I can move the
> prop, about anyone can.
I used the 2x2s and clamp method to rotate the prop.
I think when we discuss empty weights of our planes, we should also put the
weight of the plane with pilot. Panel equipment, primer, interiors, etc.
don't seem like much weight when compared to the differences in pilot
weights!
Alex Peterson (planning more toys for the panel now, pilot wt. 155#'s) :>)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Cleco tool |
I'll buy it if it is in good working condition and still available
Is the handling included in the shipping too ;-)
Gert
Denny Harjehausen wrote:
>
>
> >
> >The cleco tool sold by ACS is the same tool manufacture under US Tool's
> name. It
> >sells for around $85 +-.
> >
> >Bob Skinner wrote
>
> ###I have US tool one used on one RV-6 that I would sell for
$50.00 plus
> shipping (No Handleing)
>
> Works fine!
>
> Have a good day!
> Denny Harjehausen
> RV-6 EAA 1183 OR.
>
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery failure |
>i am considering a dual alternator, single battery electrical system, as
>shown in the aeroelectric drawings.
>
>is there a "weak link" only having one battery? in other words, is there a
>failure mode of the battery (or wiring) which would make the alternator(s)
>fail also? is it the same for PM alternators?
Back in not so good ol' days of flooded batteries, there
was a failure mode that would raise some concerns for single
battery, dual alternator ops . . . SHORTED cells. The
plates of flooded batteries as a matter of routine would
drop conductive flakes into an open space under the plates
(a sort of bilge where junk was stored). If the battery's
service was so long that the space was used up, trash
would short the plates of the cell together and turn a
12v battery into a 10v battery.
IF flooded batteries were maintained as we're all going to
maintain our RG batteries (replace battery when useful
capacity falls below useful electrical endurance with
respect to fuel aboard) then I suspect we'd see no more
shorted cell batteries even in flooded technology.
RG battery plates don't molt . . . shorted cell phenomon
is gone. With two alternators, battery capacity is moved
down a not in importance so you can run the battery longer
but I'd still try to get it out of the airplane when it's
no longer able to carry e-bus loads for at least a hour.
If you use the architecture shown in the latest article
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/allelect.pdf
you will note that the auxiliary alternator does not
tie to the battery via the battery contactor rather
it uses a dedicated control relay to gain access to the
battery. This means that even if the battery contactor
is lost (open wire, etc), the aux alt will work in
conjunction with the battery and e-bus alterate feed
path to keep the e-bus running indefinitely.
I've studied this drawing extensively and i've got other
folks looking at it too. At the moment, we can find
no single failure (except shorted cell in battery)
that would put a pilot into an uncomfortable position.
Use an RG battery, replace it regularly and this low
cost approach to an all electric airplane should serve
you well.
Bob . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bobdz" <bobdz(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Points well made |
> My apologies to all who were offended by the post. It was meant in the
> spirit of debate, not to blatantly slam Vans Aircraft, Inc.
>
> Thanks for all of your understanding and continued builder support.
>
> Paul Besing
Paul
You didn't offend me. For the most part I thought the thread became "the
ability to see the other side". An important lesson.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Points well made |
>Paul wrote:
>My apologies to all who were offended by the post.
I sure wasn't offended, Paul. Most people do not understand the costs of
doing business (including most business people!) and I always jump at a
chance to preach about it :-)
Guess how much it costs to manufacture a computer. Several years ago a
person in the know at one of the largest computer makers here in Silicon
Valley told me they set the list price at four times their manufacturing
cost!
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rv-List: Re: Stopped vs Windmilling Prop |
> >
> ><< There is a misconception that a stopped prop produces more drag than a
> >windmilling one. I think that you will find this to be reversed, actually a
> >windmilling propeller produces much more drag than a stopped propeller. >>
>
> A fellow had an article few years ago in one of the flying mag. showing
> a batch live tests and the results he found. What was always taught years
> ago seemed to be proven by this fellow, that there is less drag with a prop
> stopped. The tests were done with a fixed pitch prop as I recall. I will
> try to find it, if still have the article.
>
> Have a good day!
> Denny Harjehausen
> RV-6 EAA 1183 OR.
>
The example that helps me the most is a gyroplane. Moving air up through
the rotor keeps it spinning (it takes energy to spin it) & 'drag' keeps
it in the air. Stop the rotor & the gyro falls like a rock. Now imagine
your plane with the nose pointed toward the sky (or straight down), &
ask yourself if it will decend faster prop spinning or stopped.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Baffle and ring gear clearance |
My baffle clearance to the left side of the ring gear is even less that that.
In the first 120 hours the ring gear has made its own clearance in the
baffle, cut a nice slot about 1/2" wide and 2" long. The remainder of the
baffle is holding its own, and does not appear to be in any danger of being
grabbed by the ring gear and torn.
Bruce Patton
596S RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Manifold pressure line |
Fellow Listers:
So here's a really dumb question which I should know, but I don't. I plan
on installing a UMA plain vanilla MP gauge in my -4. Van's recommends a -4
hose running from the MP port to the gauge. Should this line be firesleeved
from the cylinder to the firewall (I assume the fuel/air mixture is in this
line). Or since this is really only a pressure reading, what about a small
copper primer-type line instead (or would this effect the reading on the
gauge?)
Thanks again,
Doug
===========
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Hughes" <hawk(at)digisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rv-List: Re: Stopped vs Windmilling Prop |
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rv-List: Re: Stopped vs Windmilling Prop
Barry Schiff wrote a very good article addressing this subject (AOPA
Pilot Jan 95 p71). In summary, using a Cessna 182 as a test vehicle:
1. There was essentially no difference in glide ratio with the engine
2. Glide ratio with the prop at high pitch was 9.2% better than with
prop at low pitch (prop control full forward).
3. With the engine shut down, the glide ratio was IMPROVED 20%
by stopping the prop (compared to prop windmilling at low pitch)
The glide ratio numbers he got (all at L / D Max) were:
Engine Idle, Prop Low pitch windmilling = 9.28 to 1
(Engine shut down, low pitch windmilling = essentially the same)
Engine idle, Prop High Pitch windmilling =10.12 to 1
Engine shut down, Prop stopped = 11.12 to 1
Hawkeye Hughes
|
|In a message dated 01/01/2000 7:56:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,
|Vanremog(at)aol.com writes:
|
|<< I think that you will find this to be reversed, actually a
| windmilling propeller produces much more drag than a stopped propeller. >> >>
|I was told many years ago that the above statement is not true. There is
|only one way to find out, however.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold pressure line |
>Fellow Listers:
>
>So here's a really dumb question which I should know, but I don't. I plan
>on installing a UMA plain vanilla MP gauge in my -4. Van's recommends a -4
>hose running from the MP port to the gauge. Should this line be
>firesleeved
>from the cylinder to the firewall (I assume the fuel/air mixture is in this
>line). Or since this is really only a pressure reading, what about a small
>copper primer-type line instead (or would this effect the reading on the
>gauge?)
>
>Thanks again,
>
>Doug
>
>
>===========
>Doug Weiler
Doug,
I used 1/8" aluminum tubing to the gauge, with a service loop in the line
for engine vibration near the engine cylinder. I took it off cylinder #3.
Works fine so far with no sleeving. Copper will work equally as well. Keep
in mind when you route it that it will most likely be grounded so any
electrical wiring should be protected from chafing on it.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
5 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard White" <chiefs(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elev. Counterweights Questions... |
Kurt...
As I recall the plans call for locknuts, which need to have at least threads
showing past the end of the bolt. Torque is not necessary.
Dick White
RV8-QB systems
Newport,OR
DNA
----- Original Message -----
From: <KAKlewin(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 8:55 AM
Subject: RV-List: Elev. Counterweights Questions...
>
> Quick question on Elev. Counterweights......first anyone have a guess at
to
> what I should torque the bolts that hold it down to..cant find any specs
in
> the directions...any generic ideas?? From previous posts I have seen some
> concern about the bolts working themselves loose and jamming the elev.,
any
> ideas on keeping them locked down if we are planning on using pop-rivits
for
> the faring and micro-ballooning in the opening which would preclude
> inspection?? Also, for those of you who have flown your aircraft without
> paint and then painted later, how much weight did you have to add/subtract
to
> rebalance your elevators?? Thanks as always for the inputs.....
>
> Kurt, OKC, OK
> Finishing 6A Emp.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PANELCUT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Fuel Cap Engraving |
Group
I really want to thank everyone who sent me there caps. I have had a
number of other people call and say they wanted to get theirs done but missed
out. So I will do another run for those of you who missed out. Just let me
know by e-mail or call.
Thanks
Steve Davis
panelcut(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William R. Davis Jr" <rvpilot(at)juno.com> |
Listers,
Does anyone out there know what is going on at Allegro? I have sent
several E mails and left several phone messages and do not get an answer
back.
Regards, Bill N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6BLDR <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elev. Counterweights Questions... |
KAKlewin(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Quick question on Elev. Counterweights......first anyone have a guess at to
> what I should torque the bolts that hold it down to..cant find any specs in
> the directions...any generic ideas??
**snip**
Hi Kurt,
AN3 nuts are torqued from 20 to 24 inch-pounds.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6 stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6BLDR <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Fuel Cap Engraving |
PANELCUT(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Group
>
> I really want to thank everyone who sent me there caps. I have had a
> number of other people call and say they wanted to get theirs done but missed
> out. So I will do another run for those of you who missed out. Just let me
> know by e-mail or call.
>
> Thanks
> Steve Davis
> panelcut(at)aol.com
>
Steve,
You are very welcome! My caps are excellent!! My wife(who isn't too
airplaney) even liked them, so they had to be great.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Elev. Counterweights Questions... |
Message text written by Kurt:
>From previous posts I have seen some
concern about the bolts working themselves loose and jamming the elev., any
ideas on keeping them locked down if we are planning on using pop-rivits
for
the faring and micro-ballooning in the opening which would preclude
inspection??<
Before you close up the tip use a pair of pliers and "bugger up" the
threads beyond the stop nut. This will prevent the nut from coming off
but will create more trouble if you ever do take the tip off and need to
remove the wieght (you will probably have to tighten the nut till it breaks
teh bolt).
Scott A. Jordan
80331
mounting tail feathers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
"Re: RV-List: Re:Fuel Cap Engraving" (Jan 2, 4:55pm)
| Subject: | Re:Fuel Cap Engraving |
>--------------
>> Group
>>
>> I really want to thank everyone who sent me there caps. I have had a
>> number of other people call and say they wanted to get theirs done but missed
>> out. So I will do another run for those of you who missed out. Just let me
>> know by e-mail or call.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Steve Davis
>> panelcut(at)aol.com
>>
>
>Steve,
>
>You are very welcome! My caps are excellent!! My wife(who isn't too
>airplaney) even liked them, so they had to be great.
>Jerry Calvert
>Edmond Ok -6
>--------------
Listers,
I would have to echo these sentiments. They are indeed beautiful. Here
are a couple of pictures that really show off Steve's work:
http://www.matronics.com/MattsRV4/NewPanel/FuelCap1.jpg
http://www.matronics.com/MattsRV4/NewPanel/FuelCap2.jpg
Nice job, Steve!
Matt Dralle
RV-4 Builder, #1763
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Wonder what I am doing wrong. Trying to find information on fuel valve
selector in archives and I keep coming up with no matches. I feel like
there must be lots in there about these valves.
Earl RV4 doing plumbing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold pressure line |
In a message dated 1/2/00 1:14:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
dougweil(at)pressenter.com writes:
<< So here's a really dumb question which I should know, but I don't. I plan
on installing a UMA plain vanilla MP gauge in my -4. Van's recommends a -4
hose running from the MP port to the gauge. Should this line be firesleeved
from the cylinder to the firewall (I assume the fuel/air mixture is in this
line). Or since this is really only a pressure reading, what about a small
copper primer-type line instead (or would this effect the reading on the
gauge?) >>
If you use a snubber in the line (the brass fitting that is normally supplied
with the VM1000 system) or if the instrument has an integral snubber, you
will want to use 1/4" OD line (or similar sized hose). If you use the 1/8"
OD primer type line (or similar sized hose) you can leave out the snubber.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Question |
I
> Your A&P needs to go back to school. The jumper's purpose is to disable
> (ground out) the right (non-impulse coupled) mag during cranking. You
> should
> install the jumper to make starting the engine easier and safer.
>
> -GV
I'm presently flying the ACS switch without the jumper, a carry over from
starting out with electronic ignition on the right side... and I DO plan to
install the jumper one day... just to be safe. Why the lack of hurry? Well,
I don't really believe a magneto without an impulse coupling will fire at
cranking speeds - 100 rpm?? So far, no kick-back from the right side firing
off at 25 BDC. Just lucky?
-Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Cleco tool |
>
>I'll buy it if it is in good working condition and still available
>
>Is the handling included in the shipping too ;-)
>
>Gert
Gert, it works fine. and handling is included.... ;
)
I am Denny Harjehausen
30875 SW 5th St.,
Lebanon, OR 97355
541-259-4500
Give me your information and I will check tomorrow on the shipping and get
that info to you.
Have a good one!
Denny Harjehausen
Lebanon, OR
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris & Kellie Hand" <ckhand(at)earthlink.net> |
Earl,
Did you specify RV-list for your search?
I had the same problem yesterday when searching for something I knew had
many posts. My problem was not checking which list I was searching. I was
searching whatever list is first on the list of choices (aerobatic list or
something).
Chris Hand
RV-6A, wings...
----- Original Message -----
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 6:01 PM
Subject: RV-List: archives
>
> Wonder what I am doing wrong. Trying to find information on fuel valve
> selector in archives and I keep coming up with no matches. I feel like
> there must be lots in there about these valves.
> Earl RV4 doing plumbing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)ispchannel.com> |
>
> Wonder what I am doing wrong. Trying to find information on fuel valve
> selector in archives and I keep coming up with no matches. I feel like
> there must be lots in there about these valves.
> Earl RV4 doing plumbing
Earl, You might be searching the Aerobatic list instead of the RV list. At the
top of the search
page, you can select which archive you search, and the default is Aerobatic. I
just tried a search
of the RV list using "fuel & selector & valve" and got 229 hits.
Good luck,
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (why isn't it flying yet)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Need help on brakes for 6A |
I'm working with plans numbers 45 and 49.
1. Where does the brake line 'elbow' go thru the fuslage in relation
to the 6A landing gear? Place indicated on drawing 49 does not look
right.
My feeling is to put it as near the gear leg as possible. But drawing
does not give a hint.
2. Does the brake cylinders go to the rear of the axle? I don't see an
indication on the drawing.
Thanks for answer in advance.
Cecil Hatfield
Thousand Oaks, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Windmilling vs Stopped Props |
So. the physics of a prop are as follows??:
1. A windmilling propeller or rotor at a low blade pitch angle (low angle
c/s prop or climb prop) being driven with insufficient power to create thrust
under existing conditions creates the most drag.
2. A windmilling propeller or rotor at a higher pitch angle (high angle c/s
prop or cruise prop) being driven with insufficient power to create thrust
under existing conditions creates a little less drag than the first case.
3. A stopped prop creates a little less drag than the second case.
4. A fully feathered prop (regardless whether it is turning somewhat)
creates less drag than the third case.
5. A missing prop creates the least drag.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Cleco tool |
Gert van der Sanden
N50 W14349 Ridgeway Lane
Menomonee falls WI 53051
Just send it regular cheapo.
Gert
Denny Harjehausen wrote:
>
>
> >
> >I'll buy it if it is in good working condition and still available
> >
> >Is the handling included in the shipping too ;-)
> >
> >Gert
>
> Gert, it works fine. and handling is included.... ;
)
>
> I am Denny Harjehausen
> 30875 SW 5th St.,
> Lebanon, OR 97355
> 541-259-4500
>
> Give me your information and I will check tomorrow on the shipping and get
> that info to you.
>
> Have a good one!
> Denny Harjehausen
> Lebanon, OR
> RV-6
>
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | 1st Y2K RV fly-in (CCB) |
The (CCB) Cable Air Fair takes place January 8 - 9.
Many of the SoCAL Wing of Van's Air Force will fly in.
There will be a temporary tower from 8:00 till 5:00
on 126.4. "All fly-ins encouraged. Fly bys at 500
AGL." (Field el = 1,439 so + 500 = 1,939 MSL)
Airport is closed for aerobatics from 10-11 and again
2-3. Please check FAA NOTAM for official times and
frequency.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
So. CA, USA
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ralph E Zinkham <reagle(at)nauticom.net> |
Randall,
Go to autodesk.com and download Volo View Express for free, then you can view
the
.dwg's.
Ralph Zinkham
Randall Henderson wrote:
>
> >I have a version of the file that is RV6.dwg
> >
> >Will this help? I have had some guys here in our CAD department at work
> print
> >this file using AutoCAD and it seemed to work fine... I'll forward it from
> my
> >work account.
>
> Sorry, I meant to say I found Tim Lewis's ".dwg" file, not ".drw". I still
> need a dxf file because I don't have Autocad, I have another tool that can
> import .dxf but not .dwg.
>
> Randall
>
--
MZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PANELCUT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | CAP ENGRAVING INSTRUCTIONS |
Group
Here's the deal:
Go to my web Site and Choose which direction you would like the text to run
A or B.
note this and write it and your return address on a peice of paper. Enclose
it and a check for $24.00 and both of your caps. Send them to me at the
address below. I will wait about two weeks for the caps to arrive before
starting them. Again Thanks for the business, and the comments.
Steve Davis
341 Madison Ave.
Memphis, TN 38103
Web Site....http://members.aol.com/panelcut
e-mail address panelcut(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
Earl,
I have installed an Andair selector in my RV-4. They are a work of art, but
they do require some creative fuel line routing to make everything fall into
place in the confines of the -4.
If you decide to use the Andair, let me know and I'll relate my process.
Doug Weiler
>
> Wonder what I am doing wrong. Trying to find information on fuel valve
> selector in archives and I keep coming up with no matches. I feel like
> there must be lots in there about these valves.
> Earl RV4 doing plumbing
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help on brakes for 6A |
The placement of the pass through elbow is up to the builder..just pick a
spot and go with it...keep in mind where you fuel lines will go too.
Obviously you want it below the top of the wing. The hose (or tubing) will
come out of the bottom of the root fairing and down the gear leg.
The brake calipers do go to the rear of the axle. There is a picture of it
on my website,
http://members.home.net/rv8er/gear.htm
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: <cecilth(at)juno.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 8:35 PM
Subject: RV-List: Need help on brakes for 6A
>
> I'm working with plans numbers 45 and 49.
> 1. Where does the brake line 'elbow' go thru the fuslage in relation
> to the 6A landing gear? Place indicated on drawing 49 does not look
> right.
> My feeling is to put it as near the gear leg as possible. But drawing
> does not give a hint.
> 2. Does the brake cylinders go to the rear of the axle? I don't see an
> indication on the drawing.
> Thanks for answer in advance.
> Cecil Hatfield
> Thousand Oaks, CA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Cole" <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Earl,
Don't select RV6, select RV. I had the same problem recently.
Ed Cole
----- Original Message -----
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 6:01 PM
Subject: RV-List: archives
>
> Wonder what I am doing wrong. Trying to find information on fuel valve
> selector in archives and I keep coming up with no matches. I feel like
> there must be lots in there about these valves.
> Earl RV4 doing plumbing
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Question |
What kind of electronic ignition was it? Something we should know?
Garry,RV6 with Jeff Rose E.I.
SportAV8R(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I'm presently flying the ACS switch without the jumper, a carry over from
> starting out with electronic ignition on the right side... and I DO plan to
> install the jumper one day... just to be safe. Why the lack of hurry? Well,
> I don't really believe a magneto without an impulse coupling will fire at
> cranking speeds - 100 rpm?? So far, no kick-back from the right side firing
> off at 25 BDC. Just lucky?
>
> -Bill B
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Windmilling vs Stopped Props |
#5 is correct Gary. I had the fun to find out one day in my Q2 going out of San
Luis Obispo. The, not so Great American, prop threw a blade and the imbalance at
3000 rpm caused it to break off the prop extension so the whole thing departed
Lucky for me I was at 500 ft and able to make it back to the runway, which
everyone says not to do, but they are probably expecting you to try and return
with all the pieces you left with. I'm sure the lessor drag helped me make it
back.
Garry, RV6 flying in the spring, I figer if I write this enough times it will
come true.
Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> So. the physics of a prop are as follows??:
> 5. A missing prop creates the least drag.
>
> -GV
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold pressure line |
> Or since this is really only a pressure
> reading, what about a small copper primer-type line instead (or would this
> effect the reading on the gauge?)
I used primer line on mine, no problem.
Tim Lewis - 12 hrs
******
Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help on brakes for 6A |
> I'm working with plans numbers 45 and 49.
> 1. Where does the brake line 'elbow' go thru the fuslage in relation to
> the 6A landing gear? Place indicated on drawing 49 does not look right. My
> feeling is to put it as near the gear leg as possible. But drawing does
> not give a hint.
Mine goes out thru the side of the fuselage in the area that is covered
by the front of the fuselage/wing fairing, then down the front of the
gear leg.
Tim
******
Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SALNED71(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: LANDING LIGHTS FLASHER |
COULD SOMEONE HELP ME WITH A WIRING DIAGRAM AND THE FLASHER PART NUMBER
(WHERE DO I BUY IT) SO I CAN INSTALL FLASHING LANDING LIGHTS.
THANKS!! ED KOWALSKI 80127
SALNED71(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "terje.kobro(at)platou.com |
by fep1.mta.online.no (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110)
with ESMTP id" <20000103125811.CUTZ547.fep1(at)exchange.platou.com>
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV8-List: Re: LANDING LIGHTS FLASHER |
ed - do yu mind copying me?? need same
regards terje kobro-norway
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SALNED71(at)aol.com [mailto:SALNED71(at)aol.com]
> Sent: 3. januar 2000 12:45
> To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV8-List: Re: LANDING LIGHTS FLASHER
>
>
> --> RV8-List message posted by: SALNED71(at)aol.com
>
> COULD SOMEONE HELP ME WITH A WIRING DIAGRAM AND THE FLASHER
> PART NUMBER
> (WHERE DO I BUY IT) SO I CAN INSTALL FLASHING LANDING LIGHTS.
>
> THANKS!! ED KOWALSKI 80127
> SALNED71(at)AOL.COM
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Nolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | RST 522 Marker Beacon |
Listers,
Has anyone had or had experience with a RST Engineering Model 522 or
523 Marker Beacon. Please answer off list. I need to know what you think
about the quality and reliability of the product. Thanks
Jim Nolan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cockpit insulation |
Jim,
You will find that firewall insulation, some insulation on the floor and
fabric panels for your sidewalls will greatly increase your comfort both for
temperature and noise in the plane. The interior kits we offer (and those of
other suppliers) are generally very light weight, adding only a couple
pounds. The feedback from our customers has been the few pounds of weight
are well worth the creature comforts gained.
Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flammable Interiors - Long Rambling |
Just FYI, most auto materials exceed the standards set by the FARs.
Another thing to keep in mind, mostly as a cost savings (but also weight
savings, too) is as long as flammable foam is covered with flame retardant
material, the foam is also protected from fire.
Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
| Subject: | Re: Rv-List: Re: Stopped vs Windmilling Prop |
This might be good info to know but....
there are many failure modes that would allow a restart even after many
attempts have failed. Don't give up trying to restart! As long as you
have time (i.e. altitude) then try every combination of control input
possible starting with the most likely and moving to the least. A
friend actually got a restart with the mixture at idle-cutoff after his
fuel controller came apart inside and caused a too rich mixture.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick & Barbara Osgood" <randbosgood(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 08:58:56 -0600 |
Maybe I am missing the obvious but I am having a hard time determining how
to jig the firewall. The plans show a 24.16 measurement but from what point.
If anyone could simplify this for me I would appreciate it.
Thanks
Rick Osgood
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Yes I tried the RV4 and RV6 list. Will try again. Thanks to all who
responded.
Earl rv4 plumbing
Chris & Kellie Hand wrote:
>
>
> Earl,
> Did you specify RV-list for your search?
> I had the same problem yesterday when searching for something I knew had
> many posts. My problem was not checking which list I was searching. I was
> searching whatever list is first on the list of choices (aerobatic list or
> something).
> Chris Hand
> RV-6A, wings...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 6:01 PM
> Subject: RV-List: archives
>
> >
> > Wonder what I am doing wrong. Trying to find information on fuel valve
> > selector in archives and I keep coming up with no matches. I feel like
> > there must be lots in there about these valves.
> > Earl RV4 doing plumbing
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Question |
>I'm presently flying the ACS switch without the jumper, a carry over from
>starting out with electronic ignition on the right side... and I DO plan to
>install the jumper one day... just to be safe. Why the lack of hurry?
Well,
>I don't really believe a magneto without an impulse coupling will fire at
>cranking speeds - 100 rpm?? So far, no kick-back from the right side firing
>off at 25 BDC. Just lucky?
>
True for the vast majority of the situations . . . but there's
good reason to believe that many starter castings broken by
kickbacks were the result of a weak but highly advanced spark
hitting just the right mixture . . .
Bob . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagent.com> |
| Subject: | RST 522 Marker Beacon |
Listers,
>Has anyone had or had experience with a RST Engineering Model 522 or
>523 Marker Beacon. Please answer off list. I need to know what you think
>about the quality and reliability of the product. Thanks
Actually, can you reply ON list please?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick & Barbara Osgood" <randbosgood(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Jigging firewall revised |
I left out an important factor in my previous post.
Maybe I am missing the obvious but I am having a hard time determining how
to jig the firewall on my 6A. The plan's show a 24.16 measurement but from
what point.
If anyone could simplify this for me I would appreciate it.
Thanks
Rick Osgood
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Windmilling vs Stopped Props |
Jack Norris, who lives in Northridge Calif. probably knows more about how
props work than 99.999% of the population would know this answer. I could
ask him if you really want to know.
Cecil Hatfield
Thousand Oaks, CA
>
>So. the physics of a prop are as follows??:
>
>1. A windmilling propeller or rotor at a low blade pitch angle (low
>angle
>c/s prop or climb prop) being driven with insufficient power to create
>thrust
>under existing conditions creates the most drag.
>
>2. A windmilling propeller or rotor at a higher pitch angle (high
>angle c/s
>prop or cruise prop) being driven with insufficient power to create
>thrust
>under existing conditions creates a little less drag than the first
>case.
>
>3. A stopped prop creates a little less drag than the second case.
>
>4. A fully feathered prop (regardless whether it is turning somewhat)
>
>creates less drag than the third case.
>
>5. A missing prop creates the least drag.
>
>-GV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RST 522 Marker Beacon |
--- Mitch Faatz wrote:
>
>
>
> Listers,
> >Has anyone had or had experience with a RST
> Engineering Model 522 or
> >523 Marker Beacon. Please answer off list. I need
> to know what you think
> >about the quality and reliability of the product.
> Thanks
>
> Actually, can you reply ON list please?
>
I have the older RST-521 Marker Beacon and RST-447
Intercom in my RV-6. Both are of good quality and
reliability. The Marker Beacon is able to pick up the
FAT (Fresno) OMI markers at 8,500. Only slightly
negative comment that I can make about the Marker
Beacon is that I have on TWO ocassions had some NOISE
(hum) in the intercom. Turning the marker beacon off
would make the noise go away. Have not been able to
troubleshoot this as it has only occured twice in 485
hours of flying.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
Flying So. CA, USA
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Harris" <johnh(at)bellsouth.net> |
Mark ups from 50% to 100% are the norm in business land to cover overhead
costs that include building
Are you the Ed Funk that was at Murray State in the late 60's?
John Harris
RV-9A Tail
Cary, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oregon Aero Seats |
I have arm-weighed the Oregon Air seats at Oshgosh with my DJ seats and the
calabrated elbo say at least 4x the weight....well maybe 3.6 or 3.8 or whatever.
What was surprising was the absolute weight of one over the other. Yea, not
scientific but the weight was there nontheless. Now, a real question is the
energy
absorption of the Tempra foam (and others), comfort, cold weather performance,
cost, fit & appearance....all thoughts that go into a decision. My DJ 2.75 inch
Tempra foam with medium thickness glove leather seats are considerably lighter
then the Oregon air units..........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WHigg1170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Now I've Heard It All |
Gary,
I am so happy that you pointed this out to the people who complain.
Thank you,
Good point about what the market will bear !!!!
Beth Higgins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <skydiven(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oregon Aero Seats |
No, the real question is HOW MUCH. 4 times this and 86% of that is just
statistics and means virtually nothing. 4lb seats are 4 times heavier than
1 lb, but when taken in the context of an airplane I would have to ask if
you diet very often. If you're going to compare weights, give us some
numbers.
Bill
>
> I have arm-weighed the Oregon Air seats at Oshgosh with my DJ seats and
the
> calabrated elbo say at least 4x the weight....well maybe 3.6 or 3.8 or
whatever.
> What was surprising was the absolute weight of one over the other. Yea,
not
> scientific but the weight was there nontheless. Now, a real question is
the
> energy
> absorption of the Tempra foam (and others), comfort, cold weather
performance,
> cost, fit & appearance....all thoughts that go into a decision. My DJ
2.75 inch
> Tempra foam with medium thickness glove leather seats are considerably
lighter
> then the Oregon air units..........
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Armstrong <robert.armstrong(at)wcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LANDING LIGHTS FLASHER |
"Kitplanes" magazine, January, 2000 issue. The Aero 'Lectrics column
by Jim Weir has a schematic to flash bulbs up to 100W each.
Bob
RV-8AQ Rudder
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
SALNED71(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 4:45 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: LANDING LIGHTS FLASHER
COULD SOMEONE HELP ME WITH A WIRING DIAGRAM AND THE FLASHER PART
NUMBER
(WHERE DO I BUY IT) SO I CAN INSTALL FLASHING LANDING LIGHTS.
THANKS!! ED KOWALSKI 80127
SALNED71(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BumFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need help on brakes for 6A |
In a message dated 1/2/0 20:47:13, cecilth(at)juno.com writes:
I'm working with plans numbers 45 and 49.
1. Where does the brake line 'elbow' go thru the fuslage in relation
to the 6A landing gear? Place indicated on drawing 49 does not look
right.
My feeling is to put it as near the gear leg as possible. But drawing
does not give a hint.
2. Does the brake cylinders go to the rear of the axle? I don't see an
indication on the drawing.
Thanks for answer in advance.
Cecil Hatfield
Thousand Oaks, CA
>>
1. Actually it doesn't matter much where you put them. You have to balance
a lot of potential interference items out. These include the elect boost
pump, gear socket weldment, and rudder pedal travel on the inside, and fuel
lines, vent lines, electrical runs, pitot and static runs, your upper cuff
fairing, the wing fairing and the gear leg fairing. I would recommend the
opposite of your feeling: get as far forward as possible from the gear leg
to allow sweeping curves to arrive at the gear leg pointing down the leg.
2. cyls aft.
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BumFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Question |
In a message dated 1/3/0 8:35:05, nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
>I'm presently flying the ACS switch without the jumper, a carry over from
>starting out with electronic ignition on the right side... and I DO plan to
>install the jumper one day... just to be safe. Why the lack of hurry?
Well,
>I don't really believe a magneto without an impulse coupling will fire at
>cranking speeds - 100 rpm?? So far, no kick-back from the right side firing
>off at 25 BDC. Just lucky?
>
True for the vast majority of the situations . . . but there's
good reason to believe that many starter castings broken by
kickbacks were the result of a weak but highly advanced spark
hitting just the right mixture . . .
Bob . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com
>>
Amen to that. You could add that I suspect the modern starters crank faster
which greatly increases the probability of kick back (increased cmpression and
closer to the speed where it will ignite a kick back). This is in spite of
(or because of) electronic ignition.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Von Dane <bvondane(at)atmel.com> |
| Subject: | Grand Rapids EIS4000 |
I just got off the phone with Greg Toman with Grand Rapids Technologies,
what a wonderfully nice guy!
I had already decided to use his engine monitor over Rocky Mtn's unit, but
had read that it would read fuel levels using capacitive sending units and
wanted to verify this... I called Van's to get the specs on the senders,
and then called Greg to talk to him about it. He said yes, absolutely, his
unit will work with Van's sending units... So that cinched the deal for
me...
Here is what "bang" you can get for $995...
4 Exhaust Gas Temperatures (no rotary switch)
4 Cylinder Head Temperatures (no rotary switch)
Tachometer
Oil Temperature
Oil Pressure
Outside Air Temperature
Voltmeter
Carburetor Temperature
Hour meter
Flight Timer with Interval Timer
4 Auxiliary Inputs user configurable can provide:
**Manifold Pressure (normally aspirated or turbo) - add $60
**Fuel Pressure - add $35
Fuel Level (using capacitive or float-type sending units) - NO EXTRA CHARGE!
Rotor-RPM
**Fuel Flow System - Provides flow rate, fuel remaining, and time until
empty. Includes a FloScan Fuel Flow Sending Unit. Accurate to better than
1%. - add $375
And more...
You also get the unit pre-built with color coded pre wired cables with
easy-to-understand wiring diagrams. All inputs are protected from damage due
to wiring errors or aircraft electrical problems. If you find a way to
damage it during installation, we will fix it at no charge.
Warranty:
1-year trial period. If you don't like it for any reason, we will refund you
money any time in the first year after purchase.
2-year warranty for parts and labor for instrument and all probes and
accessories.
Lifetime warranty for manufacturing defects.
Here is the URL for the EIS4000/6000:
http://hometown.aol.com/enginfosys/mdl4-6.htm
-Bill Von Dane - Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A N912V res., waiting for wings
http://vondane.tripod.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hamilton, Thom" <Thom.Hamilton(at)usa.xerox.com> |
| Subject: | Listers Deserving Special Thanks - A New Year's Roundup of Helpfu |
l
People
Well, now that we have all had our lesson in retail economics for the year,
I think it's time for a little recognition for just a few of the people who
contribute so much to the RV-List.
First, Matt Dralle of course, since he runs the list for all of us. Without
Matt we wouldn't have this fine forum and that alone is extremely
praiseworthy. The fact that it's free (although you SHOULD contribute) is
amazing.
Next, we have George and Becki Orndorff, who share a great deal of
information based on their "Vast" experience with RV's. If it's happened,
they've seen it(they've probably even built around it). Thanks for sharing.
Continuing on, we come to Bob Nuckolls who is single-handedly pushing our
electrical systems kicking and screaming into the 1980's. :) Bob seemingly
knows all there is about pushing electrons around in a plane, and he shares
that knowledge freely(Although you SHOULD buy a copy of the AeroElectric
Connection). Gosh, he even posts electrical schematics for you to crib off
of. Thanks Bob.
Finally, we have to single out Scott McDaniels for extreme praise. Scott
doesn't get paid to answer all these RV-List questions. Since he works in
the Prototype Shop at Van's, most of these things we ask aren't even related
to his work there. But, he cheerfully and in great detail answers all our
questions, and shares his vast RV related experiences. And he provides us
all with a wonderful insight into the workings at the Van's factory. Better
people are hard to find. Thank you Scott.
Well, that about wraps it up. There are many more notable minds on here, I
just thought I'd take a moment to single these out and remind everyone just
how lucky we are to have such selfless people who will spend their time
getting a tan from their monitor so that we can build the best planes ever.
Happy New Year Everyone!
Thom Hamilton
MCSE, CNE, PP-ASEL, etc.
RV-8: Wings Finally finished fluting...
Baton Rouge, LA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Pressure |
I needed to flair a small 3 inch section of tubing and point the flair into the
wind. I ended up with a correct reading. My guess is that I was in disturbed
or in a blind area behind my exhausts (RV-4). By adding the flair and bending
a
slight joggle to get into non-surface air- air flow..... my pressure readings
are right on spec......The flair collects
more ram air is my guess.....
randallh(at)home.com on 12/29/99 11:01:51 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Low Fuel Pressure
>You might check your fule tank vent lines if you have not already done so.
>If partially plugged you might be trying to overcome a negative pressure
>differential in the tank.
My limited knowledge of fluid dynamics says that any snaking around of the
fuel lines, especially using 90 degree fittings and such, will restrict the
flow. Even with a "stock" set-up there is some variation in the number and
type of fittings and other components that could effect this. I think it
would be helpful if people reporting their readings would include
information on the number and type of fittings, filters etc. they have.
On my plane with either tank selected the fuel has to go through 3 90 degree
fittings and 4 45 degree fittings as well as some straight ones (and the
gascolator, fuel selector, and flow sensor). I also have small pieces of
screen door type screen glued to both vent fittings which might effect the
pressure...? Most of the time that my boost pump is off, the gauge is
reading just above 1/2 PSI. In spite of this I've never had the engine
falter, including during steep climbout tests at sea level with the boost
pump off.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~50 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com |
| Subject: | Electronic Flight Computers |
Dave,
I have had my E6B for the last six months on the same set of batteries. No
problems.
I love it. It's so smart, it asks me the questions. I need that kind of
prodding to force me to do my W&Bs.
I would be lost without it.
- Jim
RV-8AQ - Empennage
N89JA ( reserved )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pannel Layout |
(for future archieve browsers.....a renamed subject line..)
donspawn(at)juno.com on 12/29/99 05:09:00 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Dash layout technique
>>Next step was to make a life-size cardboard dash template, and then
>play "paper dolls" until we like the arrangement. Lightly tape the
>instruments in place, then install the entire dash in the fuselage & sit
in it &
>make airplane noises.
I used Reamit Tech Co. to watercut the panel for $30.00
They have a web at
Chuck Rearic .or. Kevin wright
817-461-8048
FAX = 8049
Arlington, Tx
Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
******************************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "L. Coats" <lcoats(at)wave.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Question |
Hi,
I would recommend putting that jumper on - after a 100hr inspection I
turned the key and there was an unusal noise and then starter motor was now
dangling from its main big wire! (The cowls were off). Yup, the cast
bracket had neatly separated! This motor had started hundreds of times
with no problems previous to this. The wiring was checked and this little
jumper was not installed on the ignition switch - it is now!
Louise Coats.
>
>I'm presently flying the ACS switch without the jumper, a carry over from
>starting out with electronic ignition on the right side... and I DO plan to
>install the jumper one day... just to be safe. Why the lack of hurry?
Well,
>I don't really believe a magneto without an impulse coupling will fire at
>cranking speeds - 100 rpm?? So far, no kick-back from the right side firing
>off at 25 BDC. Just lucky?
>
>-Bill B
>
________________________________________________________________________________
For future archieve use.... bounce to airbox length or search on carburator air,
air filter, FAB, removing cowl
ammeterj(at)home.com on 12/29/99 07:45:06 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: airbox length
>
>I noticed that my airbox was already cut to the length shown on the plans,
>so I didn't cut it. Well, after I finished it, and put the cowl on, there
>is about a 1" gap between the scoop and the front of the airbox. How the
>heck am I going to glass in the tunnel to the airbox now? Should I just use
>the existing tunnel that is on the scoop?
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>http://members.home.net/rv8er
>Finish Kit
>
Here's an article I wrote a few years ago about that very problem.
>INSTALLING VAN'S AIR FILTER
>By John Ammeter
>Puget Sound Rvators
>
>After flying my RV-6 for 1 1/2 years without an air filter I felt it was
time to install one of Van's after market air filters. I had been
putting it off since working with fiberglass is not one of my favorite
pastimes; in fact, one could say I built an aluminum airplane solely
because of my phobia about fiberglass and the problems with resins.
>
>Recently, I was flying up the river valley towards Arlington airport
when I heard a loud "bang" and saw a blur of feathers fly over the
canopy. After landing, I found the remnants of the other bird about 4
inches away from the air inlet to the engine. Luckily, it had not
entered the air inlet. Since I did not have an air filter, the bird
would have ended up in the venturi of the carburetor. That would have
stopped the engine. RV's are excellent aircraft but do not compare
well with most sailplanes. If I had had an air filter installed the
bird remnants would have been contained in the air filter box.
>
>Van's instructions for the air filter assembly are on a par with most
of his instructions. He always assumes I should know more than I do.
After reading the instruction sheets over for the fourth or fifth time
I felt I was ready to tackle the job. I wasn't worried about the
aluminum part of the installation but, unfortunately, I had to modify
the fiberglass cowling. First I glued a foam block in the canopy in
the air intake. This foam block allowed me to form a streamlined
intake for the air box which holds the air filter.
>
>After installing the lower cowling back on the aircraft along with the
upper cowling I was able to cut away the foam using a hacksaw blade
and a rough cut file and form a streamlined tunnel from the cowling to
the air intake on the air box. Now all I had to do was fiberglass the
inside of the tunnel. Easier said than done. Anytime fiberglass gets
within reach of me I break out in a cold sweat. How was I going to be
able to glass the inside of this tunnel and get it smooth at the same
time?
>
>At this point inspiration hit me. Probably everybody who has worked
with fiberglass already knows this but it was a revelation to me. How
to force the fiberglass to form itself to the tunnel and to the curved
opening in the cowling? What I needed was some way to apply an even
force to the entire surface of the fiberglass. A short trip to the
local drugstore provided a supply of party balloons. The balloon
designed to look like a torso was ideal. With the small area in the
tunnel area and the two larger volumes on the outside of the tunnel
the balloon applied an almost perfect pressure to the fiberglass. The
resin didn't stick to the rubber balloon so, after curing, the balloon
was easily removed. The inside of the tunnel was smooth and the edge
of the fiberglass was smoothly bonded to the canopy. With a little
sanding the job was done and done well.
>
>I highly recommend the air filter assembly Van's Aircraft offers. It solves
the problem of air filtration without the attendant restriction of
air flow other air filters can cause.
>
I just read the above and realize that it may be difficult to
visualize what I'm trying to describe. If you have problems feel free
to contact me and I'll try to elaborate on it.
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
http://members.home.net/ammeterj/
1975 Jensen Healey
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
EAA Technical Counselor
NRA Life Member
ICQ#48819374
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E.Capen" <Ralph.E.Capen(at)wcom.com> |
| Subject: | Electronic Flight Computers |
I have the sporty's model also (Santa 3 yrs ago). I found it to eat
batteries also - but I figured out why...while in my flight bag it
would get turned on by other stuff in the bag bumping the on switch.
Sure the timer-outer thingy does it's auto shutoff routine - until
it get's bumped again. I'm trying a fix to put a guard on the on switch.
Meanwhile, I have a piece of paper over one of the battery contacts
that I "remove before flight" since I normally have mine out with me.
I liked the features of the sporty's model - this is the only thing
that I dislike about it...
Ralph Capen
RV6A Richardson N822AR (reserved)
QB on order - HS and VS Rear Spars ready to Prime!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | A20driver(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Flight Computers |
Don't forget guys it took the sliderule to build the computer...Jim,RV-3,NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6160hp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV6/6A Fuselage Steel Jig for rent, NY/NJ area |
Listers, our heavy duty home made RV 6/6A Fuselage is for rent again. Currently
it is in NJ. It belongs in Syracuse NY. We have been getting $100/6 months-ish
(we're flexible) with a security deposit, and of course the promise of delivery
back to SYR.
It has built 4 planes now. Once it is squared and leveled, it will stay that way
and you can hammer and climb all over it. To haul it, collasped into 2 sections....you
better have a full sized pickup truck or a HD snowmobile/car trailer.
Although it has gone shorter distances in a Ford Ranger.
If the current NJ location is more convenient arrangements will be made for that
closer transfer.
For more inquiries/information Please write me ASAP at:
McManD(at)aol.com
David E. McManmon
RV6 N58DM, as seen at Oswego NY RV forum
1st flight 11/7/99
13.1 TT now
John Balbierer
RV6 N30JB, as seen at Oswego NY RV forum
1st flight 11/22/98
See both at eaa 486 web pages.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KAKlewin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Flight Computers |
I used to have a Jepp. Dealership and sold the Jepp. Electronic Flight
Computer and several customers had problems with them. I currently have one
that ASA sells and have had great luck with it over the last few years....
Kurt, OKC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Drilling F-843 lower longeron - RV-8 |
Folks, I'm baffled. I'm ready to drill the F-843 lower longeron on
my RV-8. I can't figure out what the lateral position of the aft end
should be. The longeron is 0.125 thick. Butting up to the aft end
of it, we find the F-804C, 0.040 thick, and the F-804H, 0.063 thick,
for a total thickness of 0.103. The F-845 gusset goes behind the
whole works. If I position the F-843 so the inside face is flush
with the inside of the F-804C, the outside edge will make a step.
This looks like it would screw up the fit of the skins. If I make
the outside face of the F-843 flush with the F-804H, the F-845 gusset
will not fit tight against the F-804C.
I've looked over the plans, but I can't find a good detail of this
area. What am I missing? Am I supposed to put a shim on the inside,
between the F-804C and the F-845 gusset?
I had hoped to drill the F-822 and F-820 skins tonight, but I guess
I'll stop drilling and deburr a bunch of stuff until I figure this
out. :-(
Thanks for your wisdom,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage in the jig)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6BLDR <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LANDING LIGHTS FLASHER |
SALNED71(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> COULD SOMEONE HELP ME WITH A WIRING DIAGRAM AND THE FLASHER PART NUMBER
> (WHERE DO I BUY IT) SO I CAN INSTALL FLASHING LANDING LIGHTS.
>
> THANKS!! ED KOWALSKI 80127
> SALNED71(at)AOL.COM
>
>
Ed,
I used Gall's flasher which is located at:
The multi-flasher demo:
<http://www.galls.com/service/FS013.jsp>
The original flasher:
<http://www.galls.com/service/FS025.jsp>
To view wiring diagrams, scroll down on page listed below and select
the product number from the droplist and hit submit:
<http://www.galls.com/service/techsupport.jsp>
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Star449190(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Question |
take me off of your mailing lists
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <rv8abuild(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids EIS4000 |
Bill,
I agree this is a great value, but what if this thing breaks? I've been
trying to decide on engine instruments myself, and this is the question that
keeps coming up. One small thing could go wrong in it, and you can't fly
until you get it fixed. What if you have to take it out and send it off to
be repaired?
Jerry Carter
8A fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Von Dane <bvondane(at)atmel.com>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 1:01 PM
Subject: RV-List: Grand Rapids EIS4000
>
> I just got off the phone with Greg Toman with Grand Rapids Technologies,
> what a wonderfully nice guy!
>
> I had already decided to use his engine monitor over Rocky Mtn's unit, but
> had read that it would read fuel levels using capacitive sending units and
> wanted to verify this... I called Van's to get the specs on the senders,
> and then called Greg to talk to him about it. He said yes, absolutely,
his
> unit will work with Van's sending units... So that cinched the deal for
> me...
>
> Here is what "bang" you can get for $995...
>
> 4 Exhaust Gas Temperatures (no rotary switch)
> 4 Cylinder Head Temperatures (no rotary switch)
> Tachometer
> Oil Temperature
> Oil Pressure
> Outside Air Temperature
> Voltmeter
> Carburetor Temperature
> Hour meter
> Flight Timer with Interval Timer
>
> 4 Auxiliary Inputs user configurable can provide:
> **Manifold Pressure (normally aspirated or turbo) - add $60
> **Fuel Pressure - add $35
> Fuel Level (using capacitive or float-type sending units) - NO EXTRA
CHARGE!
> Rotor-RPM
> **Fuel Flow System - Provides flow rate, fuel remaining, and time until
> empty. Includes a FloScan Fuel Flow Sending Unit. Accurate to better than
> 1%. - add $375
> And more...
>
> You also get the unit pre-built with color coded pre wired cables with
> easy-to-understand wiring diagrams. All inputs are protected from damage
due
> to wiring errors or aircraft electrical problems. If you find a way to
> damage it during installation, we will fix it at no charge.
>
> Warranty:
> 1-year trial period. If you don't like it for any reason, we will refund
you
> money any time in the first year after purchase.
> 2-year warranty for parts and labor for instrument and all probes and
> accessories.
> Lifetime warranty for manufacturing defects.
>
> Here is the URL for the EIS4000/6000:
> http://hometown.aol.com/enginfosys/mdl4-6.htm
>
> -Bill Von Dane - Colorado Springs, CO
> RV-8A N912V res., waiting for wings
> http://vondane.tripod.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave and Nancy Stuebner" <nancy.stuebner(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Third seat/child's seat |
I am considering building a homebuilt, and like what I see of the RV-6/6A.
My problem is that I can see my family size going from 2 to 3 by the
somewhere about the time I finish building, and I don't want to build a
plane that we will immediatly out grow.
Has anyone installed a third seat in an RV-6 for carrying one kid? If
they have, how big a person could it hold? Van's tells me that the baggage
compartment structural limit is 100 lbs regardless of CG. Anyone know why,
and if there is a modification that would allow increasing the limit?
Dave
Flying a Cessna 140 now, looking for faster.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Star449190(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling F-843 lower longeron - RV-8 |
PLEASE TAKE ME OFF OF YOUR MAILKING LISTS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Star449190(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling F-843 lower longeron - RV-8 |
PLEASE TAKE ME OFF OF YOUR MAILING LISTS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Star449190(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: You may think your PC is |
PLEASE TAKE ME OFF OF YOUR MAILING LISTS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> |
Speaking of weights (seat materials), on a different subject I ordered the
AIM CO detector. Not that it matters, but this device is big, and heavy! I
think it is useful (and if you read the write up in the AVNet it is pretty
obvious "dots" that change colors just won't hack it). But . . . FWIW, the
AIM unit is big.
December 30, 1999 - January 03, 2000
RV-Archive.digest.vol-hq