RV-Archive.digest.vol-hr

January 03, 2000 - January 08, 2000



      
      Rick Jory
      Highlands Ranch, CO  RV8A QB
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Star449190(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: LANDING LIGHTS FLASHER
PLEASE TAKE ME OFF OF YOUR MAILING LISTS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GLPalinkas(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Electronic Flight Computers
In a message dated 1/3/00 9:52:04 PM, svanarts(at)unionsafe.com writes: <> Hey.... I resemble that remark. Anyway, for those of you with a Palm Pilot (III, V, etc) there is a great program that does all of the E6B functions plus many more pilot related chores. It's called AirCalc (Lite and Pro versions). Cost $25 I think for the Lite. Company is INFOequipt. Available thru their web page or on disk. Loaded like any Palm program thru the Installer. If anyone is interested I can dig up the phone and web address. Beat hauling around a day planner and electronic E6B. Gary Palinkas (Not affiliated...just a satisfied customer) Parma, Ohio RV6 QB Panel stuff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 1999
From: "J.C. Hassall" <jhassall(at)blacksburg.net>
Subject: Re: LANDING LIGHTS FLASHER
> >PLEASE TAKE ME OFF OF YOUR MAILING LISTS Go to the "Subscription" link below and unsubscribe yourself - it's the only way to do it. Just like you subscribed yourself. > > -- J.C. Hassall jhassall(at)blacksburg.net RV-6 Builder Wannabe Blacksburg VA "The essence of character is doing what's right, even when nobody's looking." -- J.C. Watts ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Third seat/child's seat
On 3 Jan 00, at 18:34, Dave and Nancy Stuebner wrote: > I am considering building a homebuilt, and like what I see of the RV-6/6A. > My problem is that I can see my family size going from 2 to 3 by the > somewhere about the time I finish building, and I don't want to build a > plane that we will immediatly out grow. > Has anyone installed a third seat in an RV-6 for carrying one kid? If > they have, how big a person could it hold? Van's tells me that the > baggage compartment structural limit is 100 lbs regardless of CG. Anyone > know why, and if there is a modification that would allow increasing the > limit? > > Dave > Flying a Cessna 140 now, looking for faster. Dave, I installed an extra pair of seat belt brackets in the back of my -6A. They allow me to put a car seat in the baggage area (just fits). I'm still in my flight test period, so I haven't flown with the seat occupied, but the weight and balance calculations show I'll have no problem. I think it would be quite difficult getting a kid over 100lbs in my plane (slider), because of canopy clearance issues. > Flying a Cessna 140 now, looking for faster. That, we can do! Tim ****** Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99 TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Grand Rapids EIS4000
On 3 Jan 00, at 12:01, Bill Von Dane wrote: > I just got off the phone with Greg Toman with Grand Rapids Technologies, > what a wonderfully nice guy! Concur > I had already decided to use his engine monitor over Rocky Mtn's unit, but > had read that it would read fuel levels using capacitive sending units and > wanted to verify this... I called Van's to get the specs on the senders, > and then called Greg to talk to him about it. He said yes, absolutely, > his unit will work with Van's sending units... So that cinched the deal > for me... I like mine a LOT. Although I'm gathering a lot of flight test and engine performance data, I don't HAVE TO constantly scan several instruments looking for something to go "in the red." The EIS 4000 flashes the big red light if anything exceeds limits (hence my recent education in fuel pressure limits and sender resolution). Greg at Grand Rapids has been very helpful resolving problems and incorporating customer suggestions. He's constantly updating the unit's software to add more features. I had a (minor) problem with my EIS computer, and Greg shipped me a new one, told me to ship the old one back. One thing that worries me: over the holidays Greg shut down for 2 weeks (two-person shop). I'd be screwed if he did that and my EIS unit crapped out during that period. I could always cobble together the minimum gauges to fly legally, but it wouldn't be fun (RPM, MP, Oil T, Oil P). On balance, I think the value of the EIS is worth the small down-time risk. Tim ****** Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99 TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2000
From: Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Listers Deserving Special Thanks - A New Year's Roundup of
Helpfu l People I second that Thom, without these guys selfless efforts the list as we know it would not exist. I think every one agrees with that. Garry, RV6 up in the spring. Hamilton, Thom wrote: > > Well, now that we have all had our lesson in retail economics for the year, > I think it's time for a little recognition for just a few of the people who > contribute so much to the RV-List. > > First, Matt Dralle of course, since he runs the list for all of us. Without > Matt we wouldn't have this fine forum and that alone is extremely > praiseworthy. The fact that it's free (although you SHOULD contribute) is > amazing. > > Next, we have George and Becki Orndorff, who share a great deal of > information based on their "Vast" experience with RV's. If it's happened, > they've seen it(they've probably even built around it). Thanks for sharing. > > Continuing on, we come to Bob Nuckolls who is single-handedly pushing our > electrical systems kicking and screaming into the 1980's. :) Bob seemingly > knows all there is about pushing electrons around in a plane, and he shares > that knowledge freely(Although you SHOULD buy a copy of the AeroElectric > Connection). Gosh, he even posts electrical schematics for you to crib off > of. Thanks Bob. > > Finally, we have to single out Scott McDaniels for extreme praise. Scott > doesn't get paid to answer all these RV-List questions. Since he works in > the Prototype Shop at Van's, most of these things we ask aren't even related > to his work there. But, he cheerfully and in great detail answers all our > questions, and shares his vast RV related experiences. And he provides us > all with a wonderful insight into the workings at the Van's factory. Better > people are hard to find. Thank you Scott. > > Well, that about wraps it up. There are many more notable minds on here, I > just thought I'd take a moment to single these out and remind everyone just > how lucky we are to have such selfless people who will spend their time > getting a tan from their monitor so that we can build the best planes ever. > > Happy New Year Everyone! > > Thom Hamilton > MCSE, CNE, PP-ASEL, etc. > RV-8: Wings Finally finished fluting... > Baton Rouge, LA > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: RST 522 Marker Beacon
On 3 Jan 00, at 8:24, Jim Nolan wrote: > Listers, > Has anyone had or had experience with a RST Engineering Model 522 or > 523 Marker Beacon. Please answer off list. I need to know what you think > about the quality and reliability of the product. Thanks Jim Nolan Mine "hisses" when it's on, so I turn it off most of the time. Tim ****** Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99 TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2000
From: "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Listers Deserving Special Thanks - A New Year's
Roundup of Helpfu l People Message text written by Thom >Finally, we have to single out Scott McDaniels for extreme praise. Scott > doesn't get paid to answer all these RV-List questions. < I had the opportunity to talk to Van at OSH (98). While Scott was there I made it a point to tell Van that Scott was doing a superb job of representing the firm on this list and I felt he was taking a load of the tech reps. I suggest we all do this at every opportunity. This list is not in Scotts job description but if we all let Van know how valuable he is to the community and to Van, I'm sure it will reflect in his employment. Scott A. Jordan 80331 attaching tail feathers do not archieve ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Drilling F-843 lower longeron - RV-8
From: Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com>
> Folks, I'm baffled. I'm ready to drill the F-843 lower longeron on > my RV-8. I can't figure out what the lateral position of the aft > end > should be. The longeron is 0.125 thick. Butting up to the aft end > of it, we find the F-804C, 0.040 thick, and the F-804H, 0.063 thick, > > for a total thickness of 0.103. The F-845 gusset goes behind the > whole works. If I position the F-843 so the inside face is flush > with the inside of the F-804C, the outside edge will make a step. > This looks like it would screw up the fit of the skins. If I make > the outside face of the F-843 flush with the F-804H, the F-845 > gusset > will not fit tight against the F-804C. > > I've looked over the plans, but I can't find a good detail of this > area. What am I missing? Am I supposed to put a shim on the > inside, > between the F-804C and the F-845 gusset? > > I had hoped to drill the F-822 and F-820 skins tonight, but I guess > I'll stop drilling and deburr a bunch of stuff until I figure this > out. :-( > > Thanks for your wisdom, > > Kevin Horton - Kevin, What you are saying about the mismatch is true, but take a look at what will happen in this area. With the wings installed and the wing root fairings on, this portion of the fuse. is hidden for the most part. The complexity of adding shims was deleted for this reason. At nearly the same point the F-843 also has to drop off of the F-822 about mid way on the bottom longeron so even if you shimmed the one thickness mismatch, you still have another one anyway. It really doesn't show very much in the skin, and like I said, after the wings are on you can't see it any way. Scott McDaniels North Plains, OR These opinions and ideas are my own and may not reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV6A nose gear
Date: Jan 03, 2000
> > Speaking of nose gear, have any of you had any fore and aft shimmy (not > lateral, not the wheel, but the whole nose gear) I recently (7 months ago) replaced my old nose gear strut with the newer one that Van has per the Service Bulletin. My old nose gear had wood strips as braces and was changed to preclude the periodic inspection called for by the Service Bulletin. I installed the new, beefer, nose strut and left off the wooden strips. Upon land, I noticed a sensation as if the nose gear was trying to tuck under. It was not a shimmy and was not voilent, but it distinctively felt like the nose gear was move fore and aft. This would happen for about 3 seconds or so as I was slowly down (estimate near 35-40 mph) after touch down. It did not appear to happen durning taixing or on take off. I probably have the nose gear unloaded by the time I reach 40 mph on take off. I reinstalled the wood strips and have had no repeat FWIW/ Ed Anderson Matthews NC RV-6A N494BW ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Third seat/child's seat
From: Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com>
> > I am considering building a homebuilt, and like what I see of the > RV-6/6A. > My problem is that I can see my family size going from 2 to 3 by the > somewhere about the time I finish building, and I don't want to > build a > plane that we will immediatly out grow. > Has anyone installed a third seat in an RV-6 for carrying one > kid? If > they have, how big a person could it hold? Van's tells me that the > baggage > compartment structural limit is 100 lbs regardless of CG. Anyone > know why, > and if there is a modification that would allow increasing the > limit? > > Dave > Flying a Cessna 140 now, looking for faster. > A few years ago I had a rear seat in my 6A for my son. There are currently a few others flying this way (Warner Berry is one that come to mind) There is quite a bit of info in the RV-list archives so I wont go into detail. I would concur that the 100 lb weight limit is not likely to be a problem. An RV-6 or 6A baggage area is quite large but it is not extremely tall. From my experience by the time most any child gets to be 50 lbs they will be too tall to sit in any seat you would put back there. My son started riding up front (stole his mom's seat when his sister was born) shortly before his 3rd birthday. At that time I think he was just over 25 lbs. The seat installation weighted about 14 lbs. Young children are not very heavy. My son is now almost 5 1/2 and is just barely 50 lbs even though he is a bit on the tall side for his age. Scott McDaniels North Plains, OR These opinions and ideas are my own and may not reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Star449190(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Grand Rapids EIS4000
i don't know who bill is but that s not me stop emailing me ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Star449190(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Third seat/child's seat
please take me off of your mailing list i didn't subscrine to anything ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Star449190(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: CO Detectors
didn't subscribe to anything pleae stop emailing me Speaking of weights (seat materials), on a different subject I ordered the AIM CO detector. Not that it matters, but this device is big, and heavy! I think it is useful (and if you read the write up in the AVNet it is pretty obvious "dots" that change colors just won't hack it). But . . . FWIW, the AIM unit is big. Rick Jory Highlands Ranch, CO RV8A QB >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Star449190(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Oregon Aero Seats
take me off of your mailing list i didn't subscribe to anything ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Star449190(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Compressor for sale
please stop emailing me i didn't subscribe to anything ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Star449190(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Electronic Flight Computers
i didn't subscribe to anything stop emailing me ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marian and Scott Sawby" <mkr(at)netw.com>
Subject: Re: Ignition Switch Question
Date: Jan 03, 2000
> >I'm presently flying the ACS switch without the jumper, a carry over from > >starting out with electronic ignition on the right side... and I DO plan to > >install the jumper one day... just to be safe. Why the lack of hurry? > Well, > >I don't really believe a magneto without an impulse coupling will fire at > >cranking speeds - 100 rpm?? So far, no kick-back from the right side firing > >off at 25 BDC. Just lucky? > > > > True for the vast majority of the situations . . . but there's > good reason to believe that many starter castings broken by > kickbacks were the result of a weak but highly advanced spark > hitting just the right mixture . . . Kickbacks definitely happen. I didn't have the jumper installed the first time I tried to start my 0-360. I had a couple of kickbacks before I realized what was happening. It is a sickening thing to hear your new twenty thousand dollar engine do that. There was no serious damage though it did sort of chew up a few teeth on my starter ring. Scott Sawby N341SS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Juli & Charlie" <kearns(at)gte.net>
Subject: Price Dropping on Strobe Pack
Date: Jan 03, 2000
I still have my Whelen wingtip strobe pack for sale. $180.00 and I will ship it to you. Thanks Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2000
From: meketa <acgm(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: N-NUMBER--UNBELIEVABLE
Hello Yall We have reciently worked on reserving an N-number for the RV-8. I went thru many numbers to come up with a couple of possible available choices. My first was taken, but the FAA said it was inactive and I might be able to call the original user and get his permission to acquire it. My wife tried to get a phone number, but had no luck and had to send a blind letter. We were not sure if there would ever be a reply. Today we recieved a letter. I could not believe it. Here it is. Ann I'm sure this is not what you want to hear-but-@ least it's not NO! I will release the N8TX for $1,000.oo. I'm sure that seems unreasonable but we all place a value on things we possess. There is a lot of reason behind my decision but unless I'm breaking the law or doing something illegal-that is my decision-If you wish to procede-pls contact me. Phone-1-888-235-1624-proper zip-77466 My Regards T.P. I will not take him up on the offer. If anyone on the list would like the N8TX feel free to contact T.P. It sure would have been a great N-number. George Meketa RV8\QB-fuselage N444TX reserved for $10.oo ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2000
From: RV6BLDR <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: N-NUMBER--UNBELIEVABLE
meketa wrote: > > > Hello Yall > > We have reciently worked on reserving an N-number for the RV-8. > I went thru many numbers to come up with a couple of possible > available choices. My first was taken, but the FAA said it was > inactive and I might be able to call the original user and get his > permission to acquire it. My wife tried to get a phone number, but > had no luck and had to send a blind letter. We were not sure if there > would ever be a reply. > > Today we recieved a letter. I could not believe it. Here it is. > > Ann > > I'm sure this is not what you want to hear-but-@ least it's not > NO! I will release the N8TX for $1,000.oo. I'm sure that seems > unreasonable but we all place a value on things we possess. There > is a lot of reason behind my decision but unless I'm breaking the > law or doing something illegal-that is my decision-If you wish to > procede-pls contact me. > Phone-1-888-235-1624-proper zip-77466 > My Regards > T.P. > > I will not take him up on the offer. If anyone on the list would > like the N8TX feel free to contact T.P. It sure would have been a > great N-number. > > George Meketa > RV8\QB-fuselage > N444TX reserved for $10.oo > Have you heard the story of the guy who had N1KE as his N-number and the Nike corp bought it to put on their biz jet for about +/- 35 times what T.P. wants for his! Offer ole' T.P. $50 and a ride in your RV8, that's at least a $1,000 value!! ; ) Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Third seat/child's seat
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) -----Original Message----- From: Star449190(at)aol.com <Star449190(at)aol.com> Date: Monday, January 03, 2000 9:23 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Third seat/child's seat > >please take me off of your mailing list i didn't subscrine to anything > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Third seat/child's seat
Date: Jan 03, 2000
You need to read... Look at the Subscription line... It has changed colors as you have clicked on it. Click on it again and you will find a box to "UNSUBSCRIBE" Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) -----Original Message----- From: Star449190(at)aol.com <Star449190(at)aol.com> Date: Monday, January 03, 2000 9:23 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Third seat/child's seat > >please take me off of your mailing list i didn't subscrine to anything > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "zilik(at)bewellnet.com
by webmail.bwn.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2000 03":46:29.-0000(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Price Dropping on Strobe Pack
Date: Jan 03, 200
URL: http://www.bewell.net/ Charlie, Please tell me a little about this strobe pack. Is this a strobe only, or strobe/nav or strobe/nav/position? Gary Zilik RV-6A N99PZ > > I still have my Whelen wingtip strobe pack for sale. $180.00 and I will > ship it to you. > > Thanks > Charlie > > > through > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Windmilling vs Stopped Props
In a message dated 1/3/00 9:05:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, cecilth(at)juno.com writes: << Jack Norris, who lives in Northridge Calif. probably knows more about how props work than 99.999% of the population would know this answer. I could ask him if you really want to know. >> We really do want to know, and in gory detail please. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Jigging firewall revised
In a message dated 1/3/00 9:03:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, randbosgood(at)sprintmail.com writes: << Maybe I am missing the obvious but I am having a hard time determining how to jig the firewall on my 6A. The plan's show a 24.16 measurement but from what point. >> Rev 3 to DWG 23 changed this dimension to 24.25". This is measured from the jig datum to the bottom of the flange on the firewall. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Ignition Switch Question
In a message dated 01/03/2000 1:37:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, versadek(at)earthlink.net writes: << What kind of electronic ignition was it? Something we should know? Garry,RV6 with Jeff Rose E.I. >> exhaustively discussed in archives; don't want to go there again with a new thread. search for my screen name and the term "electronic ignition," "Electro-Air," etc. Bill B ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <skydiven(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Third seat/child's seat
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Ok genius, since you don't seem to understand that people are trying to tell you how to remove yourself from this list, let me spell it out to you in FINE detail. 1. click on this link http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/ 2. 1/3 of the way down that page you will see a box with 'Your Email Address' in front of it.......PUT YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS IN IT 3. Right beneath that you will see a line that says "All Lists" click on the circle to the right of that which has 'Unsubscribe' next to it 4. scroll to the BOTTOM of the page and click on the 'Process all requests Above' button..... 5. YOU ARE DONE... Now, try the above and you will find that your email from the incredibly intelligent RV pilots will cease. You will feel lonely and abandoned for a while, but I'm sure WE will get over it. One more thing...Have a Happy New Year. And I assure you, someone subscribed you to this list....we didn't come looking for you. Bill > > please take me off of your mailing list i didn't subscrine to anything > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Derek Reed" <dreed(at)cdsnet.net>
Subject: Re: Ignition Switch Question
Date: Jan 03, 2000
The wiring was checked and this little >jumper was not installed on the ignition switch - it is now! ............................................................................ .................. Can someone advise if this jumper is to be used only on ACS switches.? What two terminals are jumpered.? Would this apply to an 0-320 installation with slick mags.? ............................................................................ ................... Thanks Derek Reed OR 6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gusndale(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: You may think your PC is
In a message dated 01/03/2000 4:06:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, Star449190(at)aol.com writes: > > PLEASE TAKE ME OFF OF YOUR MAILING LISTS > Yes, we see your repetitive and highly annoying message. You are the only one who can take yourself of the mailing list. Scroll down to the bottom of any rv-list message and you will see the website to go to to do this. Dale Wotring ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: LANDING LIGHTS FLASHER
From: "A. F. Cacella" <n4zd(at)juno.com>
Date: Jan 04, 2000
> COULD SOMEONE HELP ME WITH A WIRING DIAGRAM AND THE FLASHER PART > NUMBER (WHERE DO I BUY IT) SO I CAN INSTALL FLASHING LANDING LIGHTS. > THANKS!! ED KOWALSKI 80127 SALNED71(at)AOL.COM Go to a NAPA Auto Parts dealer and ask for an "Alternating Flasher", I think the number is "352". Costs about $3. One pin to A+, one pin to [left] landing light, one pin to [right]. Pins are standard 1/4" push-ons, or a wired socket is available. Works great with the H7604 50-watt Halogen bulbs; may be too fast with 100-watt 4509/Q4509's. For synchronous flashing, get a "solid state flasher" of the auto turn-signal variety ( about $9 ) and use it to operate two larger ( 30-amp ) "driving lights" relays ( about $3 ea. ) which are used to operate each wingtip light separately. A small center-off switch can then select "Land" [ both on ] or "Flash". I'll send some sketches to your snail-mail address if needed; an attempt at "ASCII-art" is below... view with "constant-char- width" font only. Good luck ! a r t W-S NC N6155L AA1 1970 Yankee ( the Poor Man's RV-6A :) N??1AC AC1 2001 Intrepid ( finally underway ) ================================================================ Landing Lights with Synchronous Flashing K1, K2 : "Driving lights" power relays, 30-A S1 : SPDT, center-off switch, 3-A s/s turn: Solid-state turn signal flasher fuse : As-required, 20-A suggested |----{ K1 coil }---gnd FLASH | o-----< s/s turn >-----x S1 | A+ ----x---o---> X ( off ) | | | | o----------------------x | LAND | | |----{ K2 coil }---gnd | | | | K1 x----o o------[ LH landing light ]----gnd | | | K2 |----o o------[ RH landing light ]----gnd ================================================================ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2000
From: "Russ C." <russ_c(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit
Listers: Anyone have any comment on the Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit or the Simple Wingtip Lens Kit sold by Vans? See Accessories Cat. p.21. Thanks! Russ Christopher RV-8 Emp. order going in! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Subject: Re: Ignition Switch Question
In a message dated 1/3/00 9:08:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, dreed(at)cdsnet.net writes: << Can someone advise if this jumper is to be used only on ACS switches?>> It should be used on all Gerdes/Bendix and/or ACS switches as I believe they all function in similar manner, the purpose of the jumper is to ground out the right (non-impulse coupled) magneto during cranking. << What two terminals are jumpered?>> The R terminal and the GND one right above it oriented in the same plane should be jumpered. The supplied jumper won't fit anywhere else, so you can't possibly screw it up. << Would this apply to an 0-320 installation with slick mags.? >> It applies to engines that have an impulse coupled left magneto and a non-impulse coupled right magneto. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: Frank and Dorothy <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Re: deburring before or after countersinking
KBoatri144(at)aol.com.Sat, 1, Jan, 2000, 22:46:36.-0800.Sat(at)matronics.com, 1, Jan, 2000, 22:41:35.-0800.Sat(at)matronics.com, 1, Jan, 2000, 21:37:00.-0800(at)matronics.com wrote: > << After enlarging a pre-punched hole to #30 or #40 size, should you deburr > the hole before countersinking, after countersinking or not at all >> > > If you're machine countersinking, you won't need to deburr the countersunk > side. You will need to deburr the other side. Before or after doesn't > really matter in this case. I agree, except that I've found that sometimes machine c/sinking raises a small burr on the other side. So my preference is to c/sink, then deburr. Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit
The cheapie from Van is very crude and small. I have one somewhere as I later ordered the larger and much nicer one which is made by a fiberglass boat builder. Are you ready for it already? hal > >Listers: > >Anyone have any comment on the Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit or the Simple Wingtip >Lens Kit sold by Vans? See Accessories Cat. p.21. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: VP4SkyDoc(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Subject: Re: Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit
In a message dated 1/4/2000 4:56:11 PM Tokyo Standard Time, russ_c(at)earthlink.net writes: > > Anyone have any comment on the Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit or the Simple > Wingtip > Lens Kit sold by Vans? See Accessories Cat. p.21. > I am looking forward to replies on this too. Please also note if the Airtech kit is suteable for use over strobes. The catalog says that the simple kit should not be used over strobes but is not specific about the Airtech kit. Dave Leonard 6QB Mazda 13B ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: magneto shield connects where???
Hi In archives I find mag wire shields connect only at mags but to what? I see a small screw and a screw with inverted dish like washer on the one that is installed where the screws can be seen. I don't want to test by loosening something that might cause attenuation of legal tender! Hal Kempthorne - SJC RV6a N7HK at SCK Hangar K3 Debonair N6134V for sale ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Can oil pressure sender also run "hobbs" and "idiot lite" ???
Me again, I would like to have an idiot lite on the panel to come on when oil pressure is low. I would also like to have an engine hour meter. Can I do all three with the one sender (Vans 33-240 ohm unit) or do I need separate senders? I feel sure that if I were flying in a moderately busy situation and the copilot had a secret little switch so he could make the oil pressure indicate zero, I'd never see till something started getting noisy. On the other hand, I've patched up a lot of cars where connections failed. Hose connections, tubing connections, electrical connections and even nuts and bolts. Most failures occur at connections IMHO. Hal Kempthorne - SJC RV6a N7HK at SCK Hangar K3 Debonair N6134V for sale ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: Merl Raisbeck <raisbeck(at)uwyo.edu>
Subject: Electronic instruments
One of the things that has plagued me re: a tandem airplane is the difficulty/expense of duplicating even the basic flight/engine instruments in the rear hole. Is it possible with the RMI or EIS products to slave a second display off of the instrument? It'd keep the weight, etc. down. -- Merl Raisbeck DVM, PhD raisbeck(at)uwyo.edu Common sense isn't ph (307) 742-6638 - Lazarus Long fax (307) 721-2051 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: Terry Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com>
Subject: Re: Can oil pressure sender also run "hobbs" and "idiot lite"
??? Hal Kempthorne wrote: > > > Me again, > > I would like to have an idiot lite on the panel to come on when oil > pressure is low. I would also like to have an engine hour meter. Can I do > all three with the one sender (Vans 33-240 ohm unit) or do I need separate > senders? > > I feel sure that if I were flying in a moderately busy situation and the > copilot had a secret little switch so he could make the oil pressure > indicate zero, I'd never see till something started getting noisy. On the > other hand, I've patched up a lot of cars where connections failed. Hose > connections, tubing connections, electrical connections and even nuts and > bolts. Most failures occur at connections IMHO. > > Hal Kempthorne - SJC > RV6a N7HK at SCK Hangar K3 > Debonair N6134V for sale > Hal, Use a pressure switch with Normal Open - Normal Closed terminals tee'd off the sender. When the master switch is turned on the NC circuit can light a low oil/master on light. When oil pressure is created, the NC circuit can turn on an hour meter and the other light goes out. You get the added benefit of having a master on light if you forget after engine shutdown. On my own airplane I wired the NO circuit from the panel clock circuit which is "live" all the time (it is fused). That way the hour meter starts whether the master is on or not. Terry Jantzi RV-6 C-GZRV (693 hours on the hobbs) Kitchener, ON. -- http://www.netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/ http://exn.ca/FlightDeck/Aviators/AviationCockpit.cfm?ID=19991021-52 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: Grand Rapids EIS4000
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Matt, can you please unsubscribe this clown manually? -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE Network Administrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 -----Original Message----- From: Star449190(at)aol.com [SMTP:Star449190(at)aol.com] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 6:22 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Grand Rapids EIS4000 i don't know who bill is but that s not me stop emailing me ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)ispchannel.com>
Subject: threaded shank unibit ?
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Hi all, Has anyone ever seen a unibit with a threaded shank. The Avery catalog doesn't show one, but it would really be nice for getting into tight corners with the snake drill when drilling wiring harness holes. Russell Duffy Navarre, FL RV-8, sn-587, N174KT () ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RodWoodard(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Subject: Trip Report
Hello Everybody. I sold my RV-3 to a gentleman in South Carolina. I delivered it on Sunday and flew home yesterday via the airlines. The trip was right at 1300nm and it took 8.2 hours on my Hobbs meter. This is an AVERAGE of 158 KNOTs for the whole trip. Not too bad considering taxi time, climbs and diversions for weather and whatever. I took off from Ft. Collins-Loveland, Colorado at 6am local time and had planned to go as far as Nashville before calling it a day. As it turned out, the weather was supposed to be moving into the Nashville area later Sunday night and Monday morning so I pushed on for Marion, SC. Moderate turbulence and IMC on the way home Monday in a 757 confirmed my decision the night before. A had a new experience on this trip in that I flew in IMC with an IFR clearance. I'm rated and current and all that, but I'd never flown the 3 in the clouds. The conditions were perfect--no icing and no convective activity--so I gave it a whirl. I was in the clouds for about an hour between Missouri and Nashville. Lately, my IMC time has been in planes equipped with EFIS, a flight director, dual everything and color radar. It took me a couple minutes in the clouds before I was comfortable scanning the standard six again. I don't want to start the whole IMC in RVs debate again, but I'd say that RVs do require a higher degree of skill and proficiency than your standard Bonanza or 182 or whatever. In any case, I guess the reason I'm sharing all of this is that I think these RVs are absolutely fantastic airplanes. Show me a spam can that costs less than several hundred thousand dollars that can average almost 160 knots and burn an average of 8 gallons per hour or less. The only thing I wished for (other than a temperfoam seat after about hour #6) was greater fuel capacity. With only 24 gallons usable onboard, fuel stops were frequent. I'm planning on increased fuel capacities on my next RV-3. I'd rather have my bladder be the limiting factor rather than the fuel status. I'm sorry to see my RV-3 go, but I've already got plans (and the empennage kit) to build one. Hopefully my salary increases will keep pace with the progress on my airframe and I'll be flying an RV again within the next 5-6 years! Keep building. These things are really cool! Best regards, Rod Woodard Ft. Collins, Colorado [Recent regional airline new hire... and therefore recently poverty-stricken!] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Subject: Re: threaded shank unibit ?
I have used chassie punches or knock-outs or conduit punches to do close quarters hole punching. Years ago the chassie punches were used for vacuum tube sockets- (to punch a round the hole in the chassie). I have acquired a set of these over the years and also conduit punches are basically the same thing. I have seen sizes from .5 inch to 4 inch. Try scouting up a chassie punch for your close quarter holes. rv8(at)ispchannel.com on 01/04/2000 10:45:21 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: threaded shank unibit ? Hi all, Has anyone ever seen a unibit with a threaded shank. The Avery catalog doesn't show one, but it would really be nice for getting into tight corners with the snake drill when drilling wiring harness holes. Russell Duffy Navarre, FL RV-8, sn-587, N174KT () ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bryan E. Files" <BFiles(at)corecom.net>
Subject: Re: magneto shield connects where???
Date: Jan 04, 2000
What type of mags do you have? **** Bryan E. Files **** Ever Fly Maintenance Palmer, Alaska A&P, IA, FAA Safety Counselor mailto:BFiles(at)corecom.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 5:08 AM Subject: RV-List: magneto shield connects where??? > > Hi > > In archives I find mag wire shields connect only at mags but to what? I > see a small screw and a screw with inverted dish like washer on the one > that is installed where the screws can be seen. I don't want to test by > loosening something that might cause attenuation of legal tender! > > > Hal Kempthorne - SJC > RV6a N7HK at SCK Hangar K3 > Debonair N6134V for sale > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Prop Drag Windmilling Etc
GV and all on list, I've thought about my post regarding the prop coming off my Q2 and would like to clarify a couple of things. My post was intended to be entertaining and informative (always be prepared). This event happen in the 1982, planned destination the Salinas Air Show. At the time of the incident I had in excess of 500 hr. in this particular airplane and had been flying it almost everyday, so I new it fairly well ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cecilth(at)juno.com
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Subject: Re: Prop Drag Windmilling Etc
Jack Norris has spent the last five years researching props and how and why they work the way they do. He is writing a book to explain it. He has an extensive enginnering background. He was part of the crew that flew the Voyager around the world. Jack also was the first person to figure out how to flight test a small plane at altitude at zero thrust. This is my way of saying, Jack has the backgound to answer this question. Jack tells me that the prop stopped, has quite a bit less drag than a prop windmilling. He started giving me a long formula to prove it. But went over my head real quick. So I can't give the 'gory details'. Cecil Hatfield Thouand Oaks, CA In a message dated 1/3/00 9:05:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, cecilth(at)juno.com writes: << Jack Norris, who lives in Northridge Calif. probably knows more about how props work than 99.999% of the population would know this answer. I could ask him if you really want to know. >> We really do want to know, and in gory detail please. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kbalch1(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Subject: Oops, I think...
Well, I managed to come up with an acceptable HS-810 on my second try, despite all the angst as I contemplated my bandsaw yesterday. The 810 & 814 were successfully bent and the front spar riveted together this morning. The thing is, when I attempt to mate the front spar to the rear spar & ribs assembly on the jig, the center area of the front spar is sitting a couple of inches above the top flanges of the 405 ribs. The only thing I can think of is that I bent the 810 & 814 past six degrees. The protractor read six degrees (and still does) for all four bends, though. Could it be off, or is this a symptom of another problem? Hmm. I think I'll go have some lunch and let this situation percolate for an hour or so. Regards, Ken Balch Ashland, MA RV-8 #81125 vert. stab. done, wrkg. on horiz. stab. again ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Burns" <hsierra(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: threaded shank unibit ?
Date: Jan 04, 2000
I talked to bob Avery just the other day about such a critter. he said he has tried to make one but the shank is to hard (i.e. Rockwell not effort) to thread. he also was concerned about the load put on a right angle drill from such a tool. since I have a air right angle drill that I bought from Boeing surplus that I think was used for making tanks, I made an adapter from a piece of round stock. I drilled a 1/4 inch hole down the center and then opened the other end out to 3/8 for the unibit. I then cut off a 1/4-28 bolt and put it in the other end. using a couple of set screws tapped in the adapter. is about 3 inches long wit the short unibit in it. works great. Robert Burns RV-4 s/n 3524 N82RB check out my web site at http://www.flash.net/~hsierra -----Original Message----- From: Russell Duffy <rv8(at)ispchannel.com> Date: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 9:47 AM Subject: RV-List: threaded shank unibit ? > >Hi all, > >Has anyone ever seen a unibit with a threaded shank. The Avery catalog doesn't show one, but it >would really be nice for getting into tight corners with the snake drill when drilling wiring >harness holes. > >Russell Duffy >Navarre, FL >RV-8, sn-587, N174KT () > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Prop drag
Garry Legare wrote: > GV and all on list, I've thought about my post regarding the prop coming > off my Q2 and would like to clarify a couple of things. My post was > intended to be entertaining and informative (always be prepared). This > event happen in the 1982, planned destination the Salinas Air Show. At > the time of the incident I had in excess of 500 hr. in this particular > airplane and had been flying it almost everyday, so I new it fairly well. > To those of you who are unfamiliar with the Q2 it is a tandem wing > aircraft (approx. equal size wings front and back) with the elevator on > the front flying surface, much likes a canard configuration ( main wing > on back elevator on front) such as the Eze series by Burt Rutan. The Q2 > when built and rigged properly cannot stall as in the conventional > sense, instead if the stick is held back, it enters a high sink rate, > nose high mush. > I was taking off to the north and was just past the end of the runway > when the prop departed. Those of you who have flown out of SLO can > attest to the fact that there is nowhere to land in that direction. My > 180 turn back to the runway was not brought on by any bravado, more like > self preservation. I new the Q2 wouldn't stall and spin in, on the turn > back to the runway. Worse case, if after I made the turn and found there > was not enough altitude left to flare I would hit the ground wings > level, with a high sink rate. This was a better option than landing on > Fuel storage tanks and warehouses. > Knowing what I know now, I would never attempt this maneuver in a RV > series, or any other conventional aircraft. The are great airplanes > that's why I'm building a RV6. But they are a conventional design and > subject to normal stall behavior. > I have offered this explanation, because I don't want another person > getting killed in low altitude a stall spin accident. We all have lost > too many friends already. Going out to work on my wiring now. How Fun. > Thanks for you patience. > Garry LeGare, Flying in the spring. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: Michial Thompson <michialt(at)uspilots.net>
Subject: Re: Prop Drag Windmilling Etc
In simple terms, the prop windmilling creates more disk area up front, and that disk area is what creates more drag. When the prop stops it creates less area and therefore less drag. With Model planes you see this by pulling power back to idle, and the prop creates enough drag to slow the plane and reduce the distance of the glide. When the engine dies the model seems to glide about 1.5 times as far. > > >Jack Norris has spent the last five years researching props and how and >why they work the way they do. He is writing a book to explain it. He has >an extensive enginnering background. He was part of the crew that flew >the Voyager around the world. >Jack also was the first person to figure out how to flight test a small >plane at altitude at zero thrust. This is my way of saying, Jack has the >backgound to answer this question. >Jack tells me that the prop stopped, has quite a bit less drag than a >prop windmilling. He started giving me a long formula to prove it. But >went over my head real quick. So I can't give the 'gory details'. >Cecil Hatfield >Thouand Oaks, CA > > >In a message dated 1/3/00 9:05:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, >cecilth(at)juno.com >writes: > ><< Jack Norris, who lives in Northridge Calif. probably knows more about >how > props work than 99.999% of the population would know this answer. I >could > ask him if you really want to know. >> > >We really do want to know, and in gory detail please. > >-GV > > Michial M. Thompson System Administrator/Programmer US Pilots Network http://www.uspilots.net/ 817-274-9843 Come Join the fun @ uspilots.net! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: Can oil pressure sender also run "hobbs" and "idiot lite"
??? Hal, You can get the pressure switch from the Aeroelectric Connection. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/switch.html#s710-1 I'm not running a hobbs (don't see the need) but I used a similar switch to run the idiot light. I also paid a lot more :-( It also acts as a Master "On" light after you shut down. I milled a manifold to mount both the switch and the oil pressure transducer to the firewall that had a common port for the hose from the oil press port on the engine. Worked out cool. Laird RV-6 22923 SoCal (in the paint booth) > > Me again, > > I would like to have an idiot lite on the panel to come on when oil > pressure is low. I would also like to have an engine hour meter. Can I do > all three with the one sender (Vans 33-240 ohm unit) or do I need separate > senders? > Hal Kempthorne - SJC Hal, Use a pressure switch with Normal Open - Normal Closed terminals tee'd off the sender. When the master switch is turned on the NC circuit can light a low oil/master on light. When oil pressure is created, the NC circuit can turn on an hour meter and the other light goes out. You get the added benefit of having a master on light if you forget after engine shutdown. On my own airplane I wired the NO circuit from the panel clock circuit which is "live" all the time (it is fused). That way the hour meter starts whether the master is on or not. Terry Jantzi RV-6 C-GZRV (693 hours on the hobbs) Kitchener, ON. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)juno.com
Subject: 601 Buckhead height
Date: Jan 04, 2000
>Maybe I am missing the obvious but I am having a hard time determining >how to jig the firewall. The plans show a 24.16 measurement but from what >point. If anyone could simplify this for me I would appreciate it. >Thanks >Rick Osgood Rick: You need to draw a line that is the same height as the longeron on the vertical supports. Now you can't measure up the 24.25 with the 601 in the way. So make your marks , then set the 601 up. I used 2 bolts through the upper holes & 2- 3/4 inch spacer blocks. Used 2 c clamps on the top. While you are studying. all the BH's are plumb except the 604. They want your wing to have a 1 degree angle of attack while the longeron is level. IF you study drws 23 & 22, they will put the top of the 604 tilted back about 29 & 15/16 minus 29 & 1/2 or 7/16 of an inch. Keep in mind that the long drwing measurements are from the "sta 0" ( that is the 601 firewall with out its flange) & the drw 23 is coming from the vertical supports of the fixture. Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com ****************************************************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Nielsen" <Mark.Nielsen@fiedler-lp.com>
Subject: Dash layout technique
Date: Jan 04, 2000
> >the blank panel planner, or something that can help me to place >my avionics, etc, and see what space I have etc.. I do not want >to have to spend $100 to get some sofware... >Other question, how did you, or have not cut the holes for the >instrments etc...again, I do not want to pay $80 to buy a special >tool to cut some holes....is any other safe way to do it. > Bert: Although they may be nice to have, neither fancy software nor expensive tooling is required for planning and cutting your panel. I made full-sized "paper dolls" of all panel components. (For some components I was able to cut out full-sized pictures from brochures; for others, I set the instrument on a copier and made a copy of the face.) Initially I had planned to make a full-sized layout of the panel, but then decided that it was not necessary. I put the panel itself on my desk, drew a few guidelines with a Sharpie, then tried different arrangements of the components until I had a layout that I liked. I then taped the paper dolls in place and installed the panel in the airplane to check for conflicts behind the panel. I left the panel in the airplane so that I could look at it for awhile. (In my case, it was about six months, while I was working on other parts.) When I was ready to cut holes, I moved the panel back to my desk and did the final layout. Round holes were cut with a fly cutter, rectangular holes were cut with a sabre saw, then filed to final dimensions. This method was not difficult; and it didn't take a lot of time. Also, when you make your layout directly on the panel, you don't need to worry about the small errors that are often introduced when a layout is transferred from a template. Mark Nielsen RV-6; 462 hours Green Bay, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: "Jim Lane" <jlane(at)CROSSCOUNTYBANK.COM>
Subject: rv-8 rear battery installation
Countersinking rear battery tray seems to leave very little holding battery in place. I am thinking of installing an .063 plate in bottom of battery tray (countersinking this plate, leaving battery tray intact). This will add a little weight,and may be unnecessary, as the countersunk screws may be the limiting factor. Any thoughts? Does anyone know what alloy aluminum the factory tray is made from? J Lane ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kbalch1(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Subject: Re: Oops, I think...
In a message dated 1/4/2000 2:12:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, robert.armstrong(at)wcom.com writes: > Just to be sure, lay the spar over the diagram of the bend as shown on > drawing 3PP, Detail `A', and see if it matches up. I made the mistake I just did this and it does appear that I've slightly overbent the 810 & 814. Do I need to drill them off the front spar and 'unbend' them, then redrill the ears onto the front spar, or can I accept the pre-load that results from pushing the front spar assembly in its present state into its correct position on the ribs? Perhaps a better question for Van's...? > of bending the HS-810 and HS-814 before I match-drilled them with the > spar sections and got frustrated enough to question my ability to > learn. It took me a full day to carefully figure out the exact > placement of each rivet hole to arrive at the correct length for the > forward spar. Between figuring out the plans and fixing my own mistakes, I seem to be taking a daily course in metal-working these days. I was really psyched to finish my vertical stabilizer this morning. A real feeling of accomplishment. I can only imagine what I'll feel like when it's all done. > I am happy to confirm that it does indeed get easier once you're done > with the horizontal stabilizer. I don't know that I'll ever enjoy > sheet metal work, but I don't have the same level of frustration any > more ;-) Glad to hear that it gets easier! I don't know why Van's doesn't have us start with the vertical stabilizer, as it seemed (to me, anyway) to be much simpler to construct than the horizontal. My frustration level seems to have settled into a sinusoidal rythym of sorts. Up and down, over and over, as different issues come up. I imagine that I'm in for a year or more of the same. Regards, Ken Balch Ashland, MA RV-8 #81125 vert. stab. done, wrkg. on horiz. stab. again ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: How to connect a Narco AT-150 to a Narco AR-850
Date: Jan 04, 2000
I bought a Narco AT-150 transponder and a Narco AR-850 encoder from Aircraft Spruce. I know, I know. This is what I get for being so profligate, but the expensive little devices came without instructions for wiring the two of them together. There is a crudely photocopied installation manual that explains how to wire the transponder to the aircraft power supply system, but it doesn't mention how you hook it up to the encoder. There were no instructions at all in the encoder box. I have called Aircraft Spruce, but they say that Narco isn't returning their calls. I called the Narco number 800 223-3636, but all I get is a recording and no call-back. Do any of you Listers possess the secret instructions for wiring the AR-850 to the AT-150? Steve Soule Waiting in Huntington, Vermont ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: archives
Doug I have not had time to go through the archives yet. Just wonder why you went with andair. I have the valve that came with the 4 and it has three positions plus one off. I wish it had two positions instead but dont want to spend monies on another valve unless there is worthwhile. Earl RV4 Doug Weiler wrote: > > > Earl, > > I have installed an Andair selector in my RV-4. They are a work of art, but > they do require some creative fuel line routing to make everything fall into > place in the confines of the -4. > > If you decide to use the Andair, let me know and I'll relate my process. > > Doug Weiler > > > > > Wonder what I am doing wrong. Trying to find information on fuel valve > > selector in archives and I keep coming up with no matches. I feel like > > there must be lots in there about these valves. > > Earl RV4 doing plumbing > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: coro_01(at)weblabs.com
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Subject: Re: How to connect a Narco AT-150 to a Narco AR-850
This is typical Narco - zero support. That's why I will never again purchase any of their products - they are as bad as is humanly possible at customer service and support, and their products are nothing to write home about either. I know this doesn't help you too much Steve, but maybe it will help keep someone else from having the same, or a similar experience. Good luck with Narco. Bruce > >I bought a Narco AT-150 transponder and a Narco AR-850 encoder from Aircraft >Spruce. I know, I know. This is what I get for being so profligate, but >the expensive little devices came without instructions for wiring the two of >them together. There is a crudely photocopied installation manual that >explains how to wire the transponder to the aircraft power supply system, >but it doesn't mention how you hook it up to the encoder. There were no >instructions at all in the encoder box. I have called Aircraft Spruce, but >they say that Narco isn't returning their calls. I called the Narco number >800 223-3636, but all I get is a recording and no call-back. > >Do any of you Listers possess the secret instructions for wiring the AR-850 >to the AT-150? > >Steve Soule >Waiting in Huntington, Vermont ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 08:58:56 -0600
What model RV? Rick & Barbara Osgood wrote: > > > Maybe I am missing the obvious but I am having a hard time determining how > to jig the firewall. The plans show a 24.16 measurement but from what point. > If anyone could simplify this for me I would appreciate it. > > Thanks > > Rick Osgood > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Compressor for sale
Perhaps one of your friends did it for you. You now need to unsubscribe. Star449190(at)aol.com wrote: > > > please stop emailing me i didn't subscribe to anything > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: How to connect a Narco AT-150 to a Narco AR-850
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Another answer that won't help you much, but if you buy from Avionics specialists such as Aerotronics, they will help you until you have it working..I have spent much time on the phone with the folks at Aerotronics, and they are always very willing to help.. I am sure they have installed quite a few of those, and maybe could provide you with some drawings. They are helpful, but understand since you did not purchase it from them, I don't know how much help they will be willing to provide...worth a call anyway..ask for Martin.. http://www.aerotronics.com Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://members.home.net/rv8er Finish Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 2:14 PM Subject: RV-List: How to connect a Narco AT-150 to a Narco AR-850 > > I bought a Narco AT-150 transponder and a Narco AR-850 encoder from Aircraft > Spruce. I know, I know. This is what I get for being so profligate, but > the expensive little devices came without instructions for wiring the two of > them together. There is a crudely photocopied installation manual that > explains how to wire the transponder to the aircraft power supply system, > but it doesn't mention how you hook it up to the encoder. There were no > instructions at all in the encoder box. I have called Aircraft Spruce, but > they say that Narco isn't returning their calls. I called the Narco number > 800 223-3636, but all I get is a recording and no call-back. > > Do any of you Listers possess the secret instructions for wiring the AR-850 > to the AT-150? > > Steve Soule > Waiting in Huntington, Vermont > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re:Can oil pressure sender "hobbs" and "idiot lite"
>Use a pressure switch with Normal Open - Normal Closed terminals tee'd >off the sender. When the master switch is turned on the NC circuit can >light a low oil/master on light. When oil pressure is created, the NC >circuit can turn on an hour meter and the other light goes out. You get >the added benefit of having a master on light if you forget after engine >shutdown. We stock such a switch that you can see at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/switch.html#s710-1 The switch is shipped with a suggested wiring diagram that functions as the writer suggests. Bob . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: How to connect a Narco AT-150 to a Narco AR-850
Steve I have the installation/operation manual for the AR850 and AT150. It is right much to fax but if you will give me you mailing address I will photocopy and send to you. If you just want a specific diagram will be happy to fax. Earl RV4 still building "Stephen J. Soule" wrote: > > > I bought a Narco AT-150 transponder and a Narco AR-850 encoder from Aircraft > Spruce. I know, I know. This is what I get for being so profligate, but > the expensive little devices came without instructions for wiring the two of > them together. There is a crudely photocopied installation manual that > explains how to wire the transponder to the aircraft power supply system, > but it doesn't mention how you hook it up to the encoder. There were no > instructions at all in the encoder box. I have called Aircraft Spruce, but > they say that Narco isn't returning their calls. I called the Narco number > 800 223-3636, but all I get is a recording and no call-back. > > Do any of you Listers possess the secret instructions for wiring the AR-850 > to the AT-150? > > Steve Soule > Waiting in Huntington, Vermont > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 1999
From: Tom Barnes <skytop(at)corecomm.net>
Subject: Re: Air sander type?
Randy, I purchased from Harbor Freight an Ingersoll-Rand dual action model 311. I haven't done anything useful with it yet but I found it used lots of air. My compresser runs about 50% of the time while operating the sander. "Made in Taiwan". Tom Barnes -6 -----Original Message----- From: Randy Lervold <randyl(at)pacifier.com> Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 9:32 PM Subject: RV-List: Air sander type? > >Listers, > >As I contemplate my cowling installation, and final sanding of all the >fiberglass parts, I thought an air sander might be a useful addition. Of >course Harbor Freight Tools is beckoning with great selection of reasonably >priced units (www.harborfreighttools), but I don't know which type to get. >Seems like the basic types are: > >A) dual action sanders (disc) >B) orbital sanders (disc) >C) jitterbug orbital sanders (pad) >D) inline sanders (pad) (already have one of these) > >What will be most useful? I expect I'll also need it for sanding the >inevitable runs out of the paint to so I should probably keep that in mind. > >Your wisdom and experience appreciated. > >Randy Lervold >RV-8, #80500, painting the interior and dreaming of painting the exterior >www.pacifier.com/~randyl >Home Wing VAF > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com>
Subject: Compressor Sparks and Painting
Date: Jan 04, 2000
My new compressor has a little spark inside the motor when it kicks on. I am concerned about igniting paint fumes. Does anyone else's compressor do this, and have any of you blown the side of your house off doing so? Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://members.home.net/rv8er Finish Kit ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 1999
From: Tom Barnes <skytop(at)corecomm.net>
Subject: Re: Van's Profit
I think Van's business plan works very well when you consider the complete package. And you have to consider the complete package. Tom Barnes -----Original Message----- From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)home.com> Date: Friday, December 31, 1999 3:22 PM Subject: RV-List: Van's Profit > >Just thought I would let everyone know that I did a little experiment. I >had Van's send me my most recent order via Priority Mail, so that I could >see the amount of freight. Well, the sticker on the package says $3.20. On >the invoice it says $4.05 (a 27% markup). Not that .85 is going to break >me, but I find that very disturbing, given that they also charged a crating >charge of $1.75. They do give us good deals on avionics and engines, but I >happen to know if another situation where Van's is making a fortune. I >ordered a fuel tank flange for Steve Davis to use for all of our fuel caps >so that he could have something to hold the caps. It was $16.67. Well, I >found out that the cap AND flange from the manufacturer costs $18. If you >want both the cap and the flange from Van's, they are $33. (an 83% markup) > >Please understand that I still think Van has a great design, and overall >they are a good company do deal with. I just feel that their markups are a >little out of hand. > >Go ahead and flame away if you wish, but I thought this was relevant RV >information. > >Paul Besing >RV-6A (197AB) Arizona >http://members.home.net/rv8er >Finish Kit > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)ispchannel.com>
Subject: Re: rv-8 rear battery installation
Date: Jan 04, 2000
> Countersinking rear battery tray seems to leave very little holding battery in place. I am thinking of installing an .063 plate in bottom of battery tray (countersinking this plate, leaving battery tray intact). This will add a little weight,and may be unnecessary, as the countersunk screws may be the limiting factor. Any thoughts? Does anyone know what alloy aluminum the factory tray is made from? J Lane Jim, I did exactly what you're thinking about doing with the countersunk plate in the bottom of the tray. It may have been alright to countersink away most of the metal on the tray, but I just wasn't comfortable with it. The other option would be to use flat head screws and put some sort of dense rubber mat under the battery with cutouts to clear the heads of the screws. Russell (the helpful soul) Duffy Navarre, FL RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (panel and electrical) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard White" <chiefs(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Electronic instruments
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Merl I agree... desirable but expensive and there is very little space in the back of my RV-8. There is no way one could install instruments w/o extending the fuse. Dick White RV-8QB systems Newport, OR DNA ----- Original Message ----- From: Merl Raisbeck <raisbeck(at)uwyo.edu> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 6:56 AM Subject: RV-List: Electronic instruments > > One of the things that has plagued me re: a tandem airplane is the > difficulty/expense of duplicating even the basic flight/engine > instruments in the rear hole. Is it possible with the RMI or EIS > products to slave a second display off of the instrument? It'd keep the > weight, etc. down. > -- > Merl Raisbeck DVM, PhD > raisbeck(at)uwyo.edu Common sense isn't > ph (307) 742-6638 - Lazarus Long > fax (307) 721-2051 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WHigg1170(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Subject: Re: Oops, I think...
You probable figured out the problem by now (over bent) but just in case, and your sure you are at six degrees check the 405 length using the fluting print 8 you will probably find the 405 is right.Check that you have the right hight marked on the end ribs to one way to check if you did over bend the forward spare, the overall length of the spare will be a little sorter. Do to the length of the forward spare it would only take a couple of degrees to through it of a couple of inches. Be careful if you bend the 810 & 814 back you could crack it or worse, damage that you can't see. Good luck hope my ramblings help. Bill Higgins RV-6 Pembroke Ma. Working on rudder. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DAVENDANA1(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Subject: Re: How to connect a Narco AT-150 to a Narco AR-850
Steve, I'll fax you a interconnect print tomorrow if you can wait. Just give me a fax # and it will be done in the morning. Dvae Funk ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Boalty(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Subject: canopy frame beautification
I know this is one of those, "if I'd done it right the first time I wouldn't have to ask this question" questions.....but here it is anyway. The front bow on my -4 canopy frame is much lower ( almost 3/16" at the top center) than the inst. panel. Since everything's cut, drilled, etc., my only option now is to shim the gap between the bow and the front canopy skin to match the height of the F-whatever top skin. My first inclination is to use alum. shims of varying thickness and then bondo, or something similar, to de-uglify the dead air space between screws. I'm wide open for opinions/suggestions..... Bruce H. RV-$, canopy,no.... wiring, no...plumbing.....no....... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Subject: Re: Stall warning.
On 4 Jan 00, at 19:01, pbennett(at)zip.com.au wrote: > Hi Tim. > > Did you tame that stall warning device, or are you still on higher > priority testing? How's the flight testing going? > > Happy New Year. > > Peter Bennett > > Peter, I lowered the unit about 3/8" beyond original installation, and it now comes on about 55-65 KIAS (no flaps) or 45-50 KIAS w/ flaps. It's satisfactory as is, although on my last flight it failed to sound on the first stall I did. Reason unknown. Tim ****** Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99 TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Compressor Sparks and Painting
I would suppect you also get an arc on pressure switch contacts that supply current to the motor when it kicks in. I would be concerned if flameable gases were present. Paul Besing wrote: > > > My new compressor has a little spark inside the motor when it kicks on. I > am concerned about igniting paint fumes. Does anyone else's compressor do > this, and have any of you blown the side of your house off doing so? > > Paul Besing > RV-6A (197AB) Arizona > http://members.home.net/rv8er > Finish Kit > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)ispchannel.com>
Subject: Re: rv-8 rear battery installation
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Rats- should have read "other option would be to not use countersunk screws and put some..." Rusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Russell Duffy <rv8(at)ispchannel.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 4:35 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: rv-8 rear battery installation > > > Countersinking rear battery tray seems to leave very little holding battery in place. I am > thinking of installing an .063 plate in bottom of battery tray (countersinking this plate, leaving > battery tray intact). This will add a little weight,and may be unnecessary, as the countersunk > screws may be the limiting factor. Any thoughts? Does anyone know what alloy aluminum the factory > tray is made from? J Lane > > Jim, I did exactly what you're thinking about doing with the countersunk plate in the bottom of the > tray. It may have been alright to countersink away most of the metal on the tray, but I just wasn't > comfortable with it. The other option would be to use flat head screws and put some sort of dense > rubber mat under the battery with cutouts to clear the heads of the screws. > > Russell (the helpful soul) Duffy > Navarre, FL > RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (panel and electrical) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Compressor Sparks and Painting
I would suppect you also get an arc on pressure switch contacts that supply current to the motor when it kicks in. I would be concerned if flameable gases were present. I would also expect the sparks are coming from start winding switch in compressor motor. Paul Besing wrote: > > > My new compressor has a little spark inside the motor when it kicks on. I > am concerned about igniting paint fumes. Does anyone else's compressor do > this, and have any of you blown the side of your house off doing so? > > Paul Besing > RV-6A (197AB) Arizona > http://members.home.net/rv8er > Finish Kit > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Subject: Re: Compressor Sparks and Painting
On 4 Jan 00, at 15:12, Paul Besing wrote: > > My new compressor has a little spark inside the motor when it kicks on. I > am concerned about igniting paint fumes. Does anyone else's compressor do > this, and have any of you blown the side of your house off doing so? I kept my compressor outside while painting. ****** Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99 TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Compressor Sparks and Painting
Paul, YES & YES becareful. Paul Besing wrote: > > My new compressor has a little spark inside the motor when it kicks on. I > am concerned about igniting paint fumes. Does anyone else's compressor do > this, and have any of you blown the side of your house off doing so? > > Paul Besing > RV-6A (197AB) Arizona > http://members.home.net/rv8er > Finish Kit > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Plans (Long)
Bob, I agree with you completely,. Your eloquent letter echo's my own and I'm sure most others thoughts. Time and time again I've told the guys at Vans and anyone else who would listen that Van would sell a lot more airplanes and have happier customers if they would just fix the drawings and instructions ( I refuse to call them Plans). These pleas from the average builder have obviously fallen on deaf ears. Why else would we need privately produced Instructional Videos (Thanks George & Beckie). A separate subscription builder assist service. (Which by the way is still not up and running. I sure hope a miracle happens on Jan 15th.) In stead of just venting our frustration on the list. Why don't we do something about it. Has anyone got a solution. I sure don't. Van seams to be unwilling to make the necessary effort. Or doesn't think an improvement is needed. In business the best motivation for change is sales dropping. I'm sure that's not happening as there are too many of us who will put up with this, because when were done the end result is such a great airplane. Bert sorry about my earlier post. I think you must have hit a nerve. I know Bob sure did. Sorry to waste everyone's time with this frustrating situation. Bob Armstrong wrote: > > I've heard all the arguments about the plans and directions forcing > you to think, allowing you to make new friends on the RV List, etc. I > also realize that a couple of thousand people have all muddled through > this reading exercise before me. > > Let me start by emphasizing a few points. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gerti Vander Schuur" <gertivs(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Electronic instruments
Date: Jan 04, 2000
"Necessity is the mother of invention" If you really want some good backseat instrument ideas check out the aerobatic "Giles 202". Similar seating space-or lack thereof- and configuration to an RV-4 but solo from the rear seat. Many of those guys have done a masterful job of making it work. Paul F-1 -----Original Message----- From: Merl Raisbeck <raisbeck(at)uwyo.edu> Date: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 7:17 AM Subject: RV-List: Electronic instruments > >One of the things that has plagued me re: a tandem airplane is the >difficulty/expense of duplicating even the basic flight/engine >instruments in the rear hole. Is it possible with the RMI or EIS >products to slave a second display off of the instrument? It'd keep the >weight, etc. down. >-- >Merl Raisbeck DVM, PhD >raisbeck(at)uwyo.edu Common sense isn't >ph (307) 742-6638 - Lazarus Long >fax (307) 721-2051 > > NetZero - Defenders of the Free World ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Subject: Re: Fw: Van's pricing
From: Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com>
Never understand why, the kit manufactures, do not > put greater enphasis in the printing clear and easy to read plans, > and > clear Manual Instructions... can you immagine what would happens > if we had a manual written by Tony Bingalis? You would have Mr. > Van's, shipping one complete kit a day..... - Actually... Vans has been shipping almost 3 total kits per day for a long time. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Subject: Re: Grand Rapids EIS4000
From: Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com>
> What is the difference if one thing in one box breaks or one gauge > out of 8 > gauges breaks? You are still grounded. - Not really true. All you need to fly is he required minimum equipment. This does not include. EGT indicators, CHT indicators, Fuel flow gages, etc. If you have single instruments all you need to do is placard it Inoperable, or remove it and have it repaired. If it is an all in one unit and you have to remove it for repairs...then your airplane is no longer airworthy because you loose all of the required minimum equipment along with it. Scott McDaniels North Plains, OR These opinions and ideas are my own and may not reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: archives
Date: Jan 04, 2000
> Doug I have not had time to go through the archives yet. Just wonder > why you went with andair. I have the valve that came with the 4 and it > has three positions plus one off. I wish it had two positions instead > but don't want to spend monies on another valve unless there is > worthwhile. Frankly I just wasn't impressed with the valve that came with the kit. That Andair has very positive L and R indications and although it is pricey, it seemed like a quality product that is about foolproof. Doug ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Can oil pressure sender also run "hobbs" and
"idiot lite" ??? > >Hal, > >You can get the pressure switch from the Aeroelectric Connection. See: > >http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/switch.html#s710-1 Looks like a brake light switch! > I milled a manifold to mount both the switch and the oil pressure > transducer to the firewall that had My 35 year old Debonair has a sender mounted on the firewall with an Adel clamp around the pipe! Good for those of us without milling machines. Thanks for your help. Hal Kempthorne - SJC RV6a N7HK at SCK Hangar K3 Debonair N6134V for sale ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: threaded shank unibit ?
Date: Jan 04, 2000
I bought one of those threaded collets that takes a 1/4" shank. Works for the 1/2" Unibit but not anything larger. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~50 hrs) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRGSCHMIDT(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Subject: Re: threaded shank unibit ?
No, I have never seen one and those bits are way too hard to run die over. I needed one to fit on my 45 degree angle drill and installed it in a .250" collet which has 1/4"-28 threads. These are available from numerous aircraft tool suppliers, maybe even ACS. RV6S (2 each) PHX DVT Installing optional windscreens and canopies Greg Schmidt (N250GS) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fesenbek, Gary" <fesenbek(at)marykay.com>
Subject: threaded shank unibit ?
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Has anyone ever seen a unibit with a threaded shank... I was able to find a small chuck that screws into my right angle drill. This chuck is similar to the one on a dremmel but will accept my smaller unibit (up to 1/2" hole size). My middle unibit (up to 1" hole size) had a shank too big to put in the chuck so I put the wrong end in my drill and using my belt sander I decreased the shank diameter of the last 3/8" so that it was the same as my 1/2" unbit. Since the shank of the middle unibit is about an inch there is still plenty of room for me to put this into my drill as I normally would avoiding the smaller shank area. An added unplanned for benefit is that the middle unibit now fits in my 12" drill extention which has come in handy quite a bit. I purchased this chuck locally(Dallas) in a parts surplus store, which won't do you any good but I wanted to pass this on so that you know that this part exists and would allow you to use your standard unibit. The chuck is nice because you can also use non-angle (ie. threaded and more expensive) drills with it. Gary Fesenbek N152 RV6A Dallas, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fesenbek, Gary" <fesenbek(at)marykay.com>
Subject: Van's Manuals....
Date: Jan 05, 2000
One of the things I found frustrating, is the poor quality, maybe that is not the word, the unclear depiction on some sections of the plans.. I know, for some of the experieced geniouses ot there, "puting together a kit" as some have stated, is just childs play... however for many like msyself, with no experience at all, is a lot head scratching....and guessing. .... Bert Still on the wings Having finished my 6A I can empathize with you. While I am no genius I could offer that there are some amazing web sites from other builders and some truely great construction guides that have been put together by other folks on the 6 and 6A. You didn't mention what you were building but I'm sure there is now a lot of material out there on the 8 although that is not an area of interest for me and I have not persomally checked. I was frustrated with the manual too in several areas but through the use of other resources I was always able to muddle through. I did make mistakes along the way and I don't have a perfect 6A, but... wait until you get to the engine installation. There is no Van's guide here at all. It takes a few hours to hang the engine on the airplane. When that happens you get to feeling... Man in two more months I'm going to be flying this thing. Then two months go by and two more months go by and .... well you get the picture. My point is to try to take advantage of the 2000+ folks who have built RVs before you, there is some really great stuff out there and except for the new RV Support site, it's all free. Gary Fesenbek N152 RV6A Dallas, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Subject: Pneumatic squeezers
Just thought those looking for pneumatic squeezers might like to know that Bob Avery has new ones on the shelf ready for shipping. Call his at 817-439-8400 if you are interested. George Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: Chris Browne <cebrowne(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Vacuum Pump for Sale
I have an overhauled RAPCO 212CW vacuum pump for sale. Sufficient capacity for two standard gyros. Paid $300, will sell for $275 OBO and will ship to you. Decided not to install it. Chris Browne -6A finish Atlanta 770 497 8818 (W) 770 887 5642 (H) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kbalch1(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Subject: Re: Oops, I think...
In a message dated 1/4/2000 6:03:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, WHigg1170(at)aol.com writes: > You probable figured out the problem by now (over bent) but just in case, and > your sure you are at six degrees check the 405 length using the fluting > print 8 you will probably find the 405 is right.Check that you have the right > hight marked on the end ribs to one way to check if you did over bend the forward > spare, the overall length of the spare will be a little sorter. The 405 ribs are both correct. The height given on the plans for the position of the forward spar on the end ribs is incorrect. With the spar positioned at that height, my centerlines don't even come close to matching the holes in the skin. When my centerlines match the holes, the spar sits about (I haven't measured the actual distance, as the important thing is getting it aligned with the skin holes) .75" lower than the position on the plans. > Do to the length of the forward spare it would only take a couple of degrees > to through it of a couple of inches. Be careful if you bend the 810 & 814 > back you could crack it or worse, damage that you can't see. Good luck > hope my ramblings help. As it turns out, the situation is not as bad as I initially thought. After I calmed down and looked things over, the forward spar only needed to be clamped down about .75" onto the ribs. The pre-load seems to be minimal and I'm going to accept it and keep building. Drilling skins on today, then deburring, dimpling, priming and waiting for my wife to get home to buck rivets. Regards, Ken Balch Ashland, MA RV-8 #81125 vert. stab. done, wrkg. on horiz. stab. again ________________________________________________________________________________
From: greg(at)controlvision.com (Greg Yotz)
Subject: Re: Electronic Flight Computers
Date: Jan 05, 2000
What can you tell me about the software for the Palm Pilot and the GPS moving map? Do you have a web site? I looked at one product a company made (can't remember the name) but it looked more like a moving road map that would show airports. Not a aviation product. Thanks, Greg Yotz ________________________________________________________________________________
From: str(at)us.ibm.com
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Subject: Re: Fw: Van's pricing
I got my RV8 fuselage kit last December and the quality of the kit is incredible. The manual is very well written, the plans are easy to read, and the actual parts are very well made and thought out. My compliments to Van's team on putting out such a good product- keep up the good work guys! Sam Ray 80262 Never understand why, the kit manufactures, do not > put greater enphasis in the printing clear and easy to read plans, > and > clear Manual Instructions... can you immagine what would happens > if we had a manual written by Tony Bingalis? You would have Mr. > Van's, shipping one complete kit a day..... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: Bob Armstrong <robert.armstrong(at)wcom.com>
Subject: Oops, I think...
FYI - The plans measurement for the forward spar position on the end-rib of the VS is also off a bit. I lined everything up with the holes in the skin before drilling. Bob RV-8AQ Rudder * RV-List message posted by: Kbalch1(at)aol.com * The 405 ribs are both correct. The height given on the plans for the position of the forward spar on the end ribs is incorrect. With the spar positioned at that height, my centerlines don't even come close to matching the holes in the skin. When my centerlines match the holes, the spar sits about (I haven't measured the actual distance, as the important thing is getting it aligned with the skin holes) .75" lower than the position on the plans. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: canopy frame beautification
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Bruce, I used two part epoxy putty to fill the gap. The can of putty says its strong enough to be tapped. Seems to work well. Rick Caldwell RV-6 N136RC (#24187) is officially an airplane Melbourne, FL >From: Boalty(at)aol.com >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: canopy frame beautification >Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:51:54 EST > > >I know this is one of those, "if I'd done it right the first time I >wouldn't >have to ask this question" questions.....but here it is anyway. The front >bow on my -4 canopy frame is much lower ( almost 3/16" at the top center) >than the inst. panel. Since everything's cut, drilled, etc., my only >option >now is to shim the gap between the bow and the front canopy skin to match >the >height of the F-whatever top skin. My first inclination is to use alum. >shims of varying thickness and then bondo, or something similar, to >de-uglify the dead air space between screws. I'm wide open for >opinions/suggestions..... > >Bruce H. >RV-$, canopy,no.... wiring, no...plumbing.....no....... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: Bob Skinner <bskinner(at)vcn.com>
Subject: Re: Dash layout technique
Bert, I'm not Bill but may be able to offer some tips that will help you with your panel. I started by making square patterns for all flight instruments. That is, the instrument or gauge may have a round face but the body, behind the panel, is generally square. You'll need to measure the body to insure you have sufficient clearance between instruments. I fold the squares, corner to corner to locate the center of the pattern. I then made a "Masonite" panel that fit the plane exactly, drilled the mounting holes and mounted the masonite to the airplane. I then spent many enjoyable hours moving the taped "instruments" around the panel (I used riveter's tape) until I had a pleasing layout. After I had the layout I wanted, I removed the masonite panel and laid it on the bench. Because the patterns were square, it was easy to use a square along the bottom edge to line everything up. I then marked the center of each instrument using the previously located centers and drilled a #40 hole through the masonite. For the radio stack, I drilled the 4 corners. I drilled #40 holes for the circuit breakers and switches. Then, I laid the masonite over the aluminum panel and transferred all of the center marks to the aluminum panel, using a Sharpie, so if the masonite panel worked out OK, I already had every thing laid out on the aluminum. If the masonite panel didn't work out, I started over and erased the marks on the aluminum panel. I then cut all gauge, instrument holes, switch holes, etc. full size and mounted everything up in the masonite and installed the panel to the airplane to check for clearance on the sub panel and the tip up release mechanism. (I used a fly cutter on the masonite wherever I could.) I was lucky and the masonite panel worked out fine so it was a simple matter to punch and drill #40 holes at the previously marked locations on the aluminum panel. I used a fly cutter for the round holes and it worked out fine. I had tried knock out punches previously but preferred the fly cutter. You can see a picture of my panel at: http://www.vcn.com/~skinner/ Another great looking panel on my friend, Charlie Tyrrel's 6A can be found at: http://www.vcn.com/~charliet Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY (1995 RV6 sold after 4 years & 470 hrs) EAA Tech Counselor # 3726 >Bill: > > Saw your panels; gave some ideas, and a question; how can I get >the blank panel planner, or something that can help me to place >my avionics, etc, and see what space I have etc.. I do not want >to have to spend $100 to get some sofware... >Other question, how did you, or have not cut the holes for the >instrments etc...again, I do not want to pay $80 to buy a special >tool to cut some holes....is any other safe way to do it. > >Thank you in advance for your suggestions. > >Bert Murillo ________________________________________________________________________________
From: steve.nichols(at)stoneweb.com
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Subject: RV-4 Parts for sale/trade
Listers, I have some RV-4 empenage parts for sale. I bought a wing kit and the seller threw in his tail kit (what he had any way) . The horizontal and vertical stabs are done and are of acceptable quality. The rest is a mixture of misc. parts of the tail. I also have the parts to two wing spars. The 406a spar web on one wing is not useable in my opinion, but the rest of the spar components are. I will let all or part go quite reasonable as I need room in my garage. If interested contact me off-line or @ 256-584-4169 (Alabama) and make an offer. Thanks, Steve Nichols ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kbalch1(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Subject: Re: Oops, I think...
In a message dated 1/5/2000 11:53:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, robert.armstrong(at)wcom.com writes: > FYI - The plans measurement for the forward spar position on the > end-rib of the VS is also off a bit. I lined everything up with the > holes in the skin before drilling. > > Bob > RV-8AQ Rudder Yep, I found that out last week. While I was waiting for my new 810 to arrive, I completed the vertical stabilizer. If anything, the mis-measurement on the plans is an object lesson for the remainder of the project. FWIW, though it would be nice to have better, more accurate plans and I'm moving along at a good pace and finding the info I need from my various resources (principally this list, the Orndorff videos & some builders I know). Regards, Ken Balch Ashland, MA RV-8 #81125 vert. stab. done, wrkg. on horiz. stab. again ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: "Hamilton, Thom" <Thom.Hamilton(at)usa.xerox.com>
Subject: My thoughts on Plans, etc. (Feel free to ignore)
I guess the plans and drawings for the RV-8 must be considerably different from those for the RV-(3,4,6(A)) because I haven't gotten lost once. (Yet.) I love the drawings and use them more than the plans for most construction, they have been almost 100% accurate and very descriptive. Better than most blueprints/engineering drawings I have used in the past. The plans don't seem like that much of a hindrance, especially when you consider the availability of the Orndorff videos which should be able to walk most people through the processes involved. One thing I WOULD like to see Van's do is include the Orndorff Empennage video with every empennage kit. Just tack the price onto it and sell it with it. The ability to "see" someone doing things like drilling the skin to the ribs and jigging up the horizontal stab is priceless. I think we would see far less traffic on the list with the same empennage questions over and over and Van's would have happier customers, for very little money. Just my 47.0976 Zambian Kwachas worth. Thom Hamilton MCSE, CNE, PP-ASEL, etc. RV-8: Wings Finally finished fluting Baton Rouge, LA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: Frank and Dorothy <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Plans (Long)
Garry Legare wrote: > These pleas from the average builder have obviously fallen on deaf ears. Hell, pleas to fix faulty parts (e.g. the pre-punched hole in the wrong place in the RV-6 rudder) have fallen on deaf ears. Why should plans be any different? > In stead of just venting our frustration on the list. Why don't we do > something about it. Has anyone got a solution. I sure don't. Well, that's exactly what I did! You can find the "Bunny's Guide to RV Building" at http://members.xoom.com/frankv/bunny.htm -- mostly it's a record of my experiences building my RV-6, plus contributions from other builders (and I'm always willing to add more if you find something is missing), plus a whole lot of relevant stuff extracted from the RV-list. If you are unhappy with Van's manual, put your money (or at least your time) where your mouth is and email me a contribution to the Guide. It was always my hope that the Guide would grow to be a full Instruction Manual, with me (or anyone else who's willing) acting as a coordinator/editor putting it together. Frank. (RV-6 #24692, fitting rudder) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)arlington.net>
Subject: Re: Listers Deserving Special Thanks - A New Year's Roundup of
Helpfu lPeople Let's not forget Frank Justice...without his construction notes, I would still be walking! Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX -6A flying past 145 hours "Hamilton, Thom" wrote: > > > Well, now that we have all had our lesson in retail economics for the year, > I think it's time for a little recognition for just a few of the people who > contribute so much to the RV-List. > > First, Matt Dralle of course, since he runs the list for all of us. Without > Matt we wouldn't have this fine forum and that alone is extremely > praiseworthy. The fact that it's free (although you SHOULD contribute) is > amazing. > > Next, we have George and Becki Orndorff, who share a great deal of > information based on their "Vast" experience with RV's. If it's happened, > they've seen it(they've probably even built around it). Thanks for sharing. > > Continuing on, we come to Bob Nuckolls who is single-handedly pushing our > electrical systems kicking and screaming into the 1980's. :) Bob seemingly > knows all there is about pushing electrons around in a plane, and he shares > that knowledge freely(Although you SHOULD buy a copy of the AeroElectric > Connection). Gosh, he even posts electrical schematics for you to crib off > of. Thanks Bob. > > Finally, we have to single out Scott McDaniels for extreme praise. Scott > doesn't get paid to answer all these RV-List questions. Since he works in > the Prototype Shop at Van's, most of these things we ask aren't even related > to his work there. But, he cheerfully and in great detail answers all our > questions, and shares his vast RV related experiences. And he provides us > all with a wonderful insight into the workings at the Van's factory. Better > people are hard to find. Thank you Scott. > > Well, that about wraps it up. There are many more notable minds on here, I > just thought I'd take a moment to single these out and remind everyone just > how lucky we are to have such selfless people who will spend their time > getting a tan from their monitor so that we can build the best planes ever. > > Happy New Year Everyone! > > Thom Hamilton > MCSE, CNE, PP-ASEL, etc. > RV-8: Wings Finally finished fluting... > Baton Rouge, LA > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Subject: Re: My thoughts on Plans, etc. (Feel free to ignore)
There is a considerable difference between the -4 & -6 and the -8 plans. The rv-8 plans are heads & shoulders Thom.Hamilton(at)usa.xerox.com on 01/05/2000 12:32:20 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: My thoughts on Plans, etc. (Feel free to ignore) I guess the plans and drawings for the RV-8 must be considerably different from those for the RV-(3,4,6(A)) because I haven't gotten lost once. (Yet.) I love the drawings and use them more than the plans for most construction, they have been almost 100% accurate and very descriptive. Better than most blueprints/engineering drawings I have used in the past. The plans don't seem like that much of a hindrance, especially when you consider the availability of the Orndorff videos which should be able to walk most people through the processes involved. One thing I WOULD like to see Van's do is include the Orndorff Empennage video with every empennage kit. Just tack the price onto it and sell it with it. The ability to "see" someone doing things like drilling the skin to the ribs and jigging up the horizontal stab is priceless. I think we would see far less traffic on the list with the same empennage questions over and over and Van's would have happier customers, for very little money. Just my 47.0976 Zambian Kwachas worth. Thom Hamilton MCSE, CNE, PP-ASEL, etc. RV-8: Wings Finally finished fluting Baton Rouge, LA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us>
Subject: Strobes For Sale
Date: Jan 05, 2000
>I have one set of Whelen A600PG strobes ( nav light, strobe, rear light) >for sale. > $266 for the pair. That will save you $50 from the Van's catalog price. >You pay shipping. Please email me off the list. > > >Patty Gillies >RV-6, Finish Kit, South Carolina >gillies-patty(at)sc.edu >(803) 777-5269 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Subject: Stall Warning
I have a question for those of you flying RV-8's, -8A's, or anyone who's done stalls in the -8/8A series. Last week I got a ride in Don Christiansen's RV-8 in Dallas, TX and I was surprised when we did some stalls that his -8 has a very pronounced shudder/buffet prior to stall. I have flown several times in an RV-6A and by contrast I never noticed any discernable buffet at all in the -6A. Don says that the RV-4 he used to fly was like the -6/6A, with no significant buffet, but he thinks all the -8/8A series exhibit the same buffet characteristics as his -8 does. Question for those of you who've done stalls in the -8/8A series, does your experience agree with this? Seems a bit of a mystery since they all use the same wing. Since I'm building an -8A, I'm especially interested in whether or not to expect this characteristic (Bill Pagan, any comments??). I had been thinking of making a cheapo piper-type stall warning tab like Tim Lewis but if my -8A is going to shake and shudder the same as Don's -8, I'll save myself the effort. --Mark Navratil RV-8A s/n 80583 wings Cedar Rapids, IA P.S.--Don also introduced me to aerobatics in an RV....loops, rolls, etc.....and it was a blast! Those of you lucky dogs with flying RV's who haven't tried turning it upside down yet should get some training and go have some REAL FUN! From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RV-List: Re: Stall warning. On 4 Jan 00, at 19:01, pbennett(at)zip.com.au wrote: > Hi Tim. > > Did you tame that stall warning device, or are you still on higher > priority testing? How's the flight testing going? > > Happy New Year. > > Peter Bennett > > Peter, I lowered the unit about 3/8" beyond original installation, and it now comes on about 55-65 KIAS (no flaps) or 45-50 KIAS w/ flaps. It's satisfactory as is, although on my last flight it failed to sound on the first stall I did. Reason unknown. Tim ****** Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99 TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: VAN has the BEST Plans and Manual
I have not seen any amateur built aircraft plans or manuals that are better than what we get with the RV. I have seen EZ, Cozy, Dragonfly, Thorpe, Mustang II, KR. Am I the only one on the list that paid $200 (over 10 years ago) to purchase aircraft plans and construction manual for an aircraft other than an RV? The S-18 is redrawn T-18 drawings that have an improved airfoil and wider fuselage. This incorporated about 20 years of changes, improvements, and refinements. Drawings come to you in sizes A through E. The manual is about 40 pages long. In My Humble Opinion, the RV-6 plans and manual available in 1989 were superior. I purchased my RV-6 empennage kit in October 1988. My wing and fuselage kits were delivered in 1989. It took 8.5 years and 3,000 man-hours to build the aircraft. The plans and manual are EXCELLENT. I did not damage a single part due to errors by the designer or his documentation. Yes I did purchase 3 pieces of sheet metal that I damaged. There were over 1,000 RVs that were flying before I got mine flying. I build my aircraft with the documentation supplied. You can also if you are willing to LEARN as you go. In the US, we are allowed to build and operate our own aircraft [FAR 21.191 (g)] "for education or recreation." This is a learning experience. The documentation that I have seen with the newer RV kits has been improved from what I built my aircraft with. To gain admittance to the very SMALL fraternity of people, who has built and flown their RV, you will be required to LEARN how to do it for yourself. There are numerous supplemental publications available that are used in A&P schools that can be used as training manuals. I have been working in industry and aerospace for over 20 years. The plans and manual that we get with the RV kit are as good (in some cases better) that what I have seen in industry. If I were in charge of Van's documentation, I would not change a thing. The manual and plans that we get from Van is all that is needed to build a GREAT Aircraft. It appears that there are enough people that would pay for a take me by the hand step by step "assembly" instructions. There are enough of us out here that could write a manual and take your money. I already know that you will complain about it also. Great Britain and the United States are two countries that are separated by a common language. I can explain how to do something to one person and they will understand. I can use the exact same words to describe the same to another and they will not have a clue. As humans, we all have different abilities and will not be able to do everything the same. Flame me on or off the list. I built mine without supplemental manuals and am flying. Put you mind to it, stop whining, and you can do it also. If I can do it, you should be able to do it. Thanks VAN for doing such a GREAT job. Keep up the good work. ==== Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, Flying So. CA, USA Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jet Glo Adventures (Real Long)
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Listers, I had my plane professionally painted and just got it back yesterday. The few places it has been parked so far have been assailed by gawkers from all directions. So all is well right, just show the painter your design and relax for two weeks, then for ever after bask in the glow of all the attention? Much better than just to paint it yourself? Well not really! In my case I really did not have a choice. My plane was built in a friends television repair shop and is currently hangared in a dusty tee-hangar with about 60 volts of AC. But, if I had a choice I probably would have leaned toward a professional job, after all those guys have so much experience and all. I now think if at all possible everyone should paint their own plane. I first started looking for a paint shop in about July 1999 after first flying my Rv-6 in May. The place that kept coming up was A&A Aircraft in Big Spring, TX. I had seen a lot of paint jobs from this shop and it does have a pretty good reputation. When I called they quoted their standard RV price and told me RV's are real simple to paint. At the time the thing that put me off the most was his insistence on clear coat. I was looking for as light a job as possible and primer and Jet Glo and clear coat does not sound real light. He told me the whole kit and caboodle would weigh "about 6 pounds." Van's says a thin, no primer paint job is about 15 pounds with two or three times that 15 being more likely. I think the discrepancy here is that Vans owns a scale. I did not note one sitting around at A&A. After flying for around one hundred hours and fixing many things that broke and building a new set of wheel pants I started getting serious about looking for a paint shop again. Some experiences Will Cretsinger had with a shop in Hondo, Texas as well as further investigation still pointed to A&A as a decent place. When I called this time there was no mention of mandatory clear coat, it was a two or three hundred dollar option. This was what made me finally decide on A&A. Who needs clear coat on polyurethane airplane paint; it is wet look anyway? I took the plane in at the very end of November. He said it should be out just before Christmas, but by New Year at the latest. He even agreed to not remove control surfaces and to not paint any screws. I was very afraid mistakes would be made if I allowed a lot of disassembly. I also found out that he is proud of the fact he paints the N number on instead of using the pre-done ones. I won't go into all the gory details as to all my phone calls and why I eventually stopped calling and waited for them to call me and all the arrangements I made with friends for a ferry flight to go pick up my plane only to have to cancel and make new arrangements with someone else. I won't go into all the reasons and excuses for the delays, but some were running out of materials, "it didn't turn out good," "I'll be honest, I messed it up," and so on. Even yesterday it turns out there was another call postponing again, but I had already left. What I found when I arrived at Big Spring was a stunning looking airplane with a glossy finish. Just one big run underneath as well as a few other bad looking spots. BUT, about three fourths of the screws are painted over. I figure it will take me two or three days to break all those loose, patch the paint and reinstall new screws. All the fairings were installed incorrectly. Rubber strip bending wrong way, overlaps in the wrong direction, etc. The N numbers look terrible. The paint is about 15 or 20 thousandths thick with block edges and gouges in the paint where some tool was used to remove masking. The numbers don't have normal proportions (the P has a tiny loop). The plane is clear coated after all (at no additional cost) because he could not get an acceptable finish on the black. Also about ten critical screws were loose on delivery (behind spinner and lower cowl). If I would not have checked I would have had more breakage. One of the hand-made stick grips is now broken and loose from the stick and I now have trim-tab problems as well as a scratched up canopy with some overspray on it. Partly because of experiences at quick oil change places I do not like to entrust my stuff to other people but have figured maybe I am just too sensitive. Well maybe I'm not. These guys do have more experience getting a nice looking finish but I don't think they will ever sweat the details like the builder will. They just do not care as much. If you can stand the idea at all, and have the facilities, I recommend you do your own paint. You'll add two years to your life through not worrying so much. My paint is not as bad as it probably seems after reading this. It really does look nice and he has offered to repair anything I ask. When I get a digital photo I'll put it on my web-site. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <skydiven(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Jet Glo Adventures (Real Long)
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Several years of building, thousands of hours of bleeding, cursing and head scratching, as well as thousands and thousands of dollars AND SOMEONE ELSE SCREWS UP THE LAST STEP. Nope, not me. If anyone is going to screw up on my plane, it will be me. And then, I can just say 'I'm an amateur.' Put the few thousand worth of 'professional' paint into avionics, or the 0-360 vs 320. Paint is just not that hard to do....just really irritating. :) Bill > > Listers, > > I had my plane professionally painted and just got it back yesterday. > The few places it has been parked so far have been assailed by gawkers > from all directions. So all is well right, just show the painter your > design and relax for two weeks, then for ever after bask in the glow of > all the attention? Much better than just to paint it yourself? Well not > really! > > In my case I really did not have a choice. My plane was built in a > friends television repair shop and is currently hangared in a dusty > tee-hangar with about 60 volts of AC. But, if I had a choice I probably > would have leaned toward a professional job, after all those guys have so > much experience and all. I now think if at all possible everyone should > paint their own plane. > > I first started looking for a paint shop in about July 1999 after first > flying my Rv-6 in May. The place that kept coming up was A&A Aircraft in > Big Spring, TX. I had seen a lot of paint jobs from this shop and it > does have a pretty good reputation. When I called they quoted their > standard RV price and told me RV's are real simple to paint. At the time > the thing that put me off the most was his insistence on clear coat. I > was looking for as light a job as possible and primer and Jet Glo and > clear coat does not sound real light. He told me the whole kit and > caboodle would weigh "about 6 pounds." Van's says a thin, no primer > paint job is about 15 pounds with two or three times that 15 being more > likely. I think the discrepancy here is that Vans owns a scale. I did > not note one sitting around at A&A. > > After flying for around one hundred hours and fixing many things that > broke and building a new set of wheel pants I started getting serious > about looking for a paint shop again. Some experiences Will Cretsinger > had with a shop in Hondo, Texas as well as further investigation still > pointed to A&A as a decent place. > > When I called this time there was no mention of mandatory clear coat, it > was a two or three hundred dollar option. This was what made me finally > decide on A&A. Who needs clear coat on polyurethane airplane paint; it > is wet look anyway? I took the plane in at the very end of November. He > said it should be out just before Christmas, but by New Year at the > latest. He even agreed to not remove control surfaces and to not paint > any screws. I was very afraid mistakes would be made if I allowed a lot > of disassembly. I also found out that he is proud of the fact he paints > the N number on instead of using the pre-done ones. > > I won't go into all the gory details as to all my phone calls and why I > eventually stopped calling and waited for them to call me and all the > arrangements I made with friends for a ferry flight to go pick up my > plane only to have to cancel and make new arrangements with someone else. > I won't go into all the reasons and excuses for the delays, but some > were running out of materials, "it didn't turn out good," "I'll be > honest, I messed it up," and so on. Even yesterday it turns out there > was another call postponing again, but I had already left. > > What I found when I arrived at Big Spring was a stunning looking airplane > with a glossy finish. Just one big run underneath as well as a few other > bad looking spots. BUT, about three fourths of the screws are painted > over. I figure it will take me two or three days to break all those > loose, patch the paint and reinstall new screws. All the fairings were > installed incorrectly. Rubber strip bending wrong way, overlaps in the > wrong direction, etc. The N numbers look terrible. The paint is about > 15 or 20 thousandths thick with block edges and gouges in the paint where > some tool was used to remove masking. The numbers don't have normal > proportions (the P has a tiny loop). The plane is clear coated after all > (at no additional cost) because he could not get an acceptable finish on > the black. Also about ten critical screws were loose on delivery (behind > spinner and lower cowl). If I would not have checked I would have had > more breakage. > > One of the hand-made stick grips is now broken and loose from the stick > and I now have trim-tab problems as well as a scratched up canopy with > some overspray on it. > > Partly because of experiences at quick oil change places I do not like to > entrust my stuff to other people but have figured maybe I am just too > sensitive. Well maybe I'm not. These guys do have more experience > getting a nice looking finish but I don't think they will ever sweat the > details like the builder will. They just do not care as much. > > If you can stand the idea at all, and have the facilities, I recommend > you do your own paint. You'll add two years to your life through not > worrying so much. > > My paint is not as bad as it probably seems after reading this. It > really does look nice and he has offered to repair anything I ask. > > When I get a digital photo I'll put it on my web-site. > > > Larry Pardue > Carlsbad, NM > > RV-6 N441LP > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: RV-8 upper longeron bending - plans error
You guys might be interested in my original message to Van's, and their reply. We all need to let them know of every error and gotcha that we find. Maybe that will allow them to update stuff. Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage in the jig) Ottawa, Canada http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html >From: "Scott Risan " <support(at)vansaircraft.com> >To: Kevin Horton >Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:09:19 -0800 >Subject: Re: RV-8 upper longeron bending - plans error? > >you are correct and the drawing was revised in November. (4.125") >don't know if the has made it to the rvator yet. van's > > >To: support(at)vansaircraft.com >From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> >Subject: RV-8 upper longeron bending - plans error? > >> Hi there, >> >> I think there is an error on plans sheet 21 for the RV-8 (I'm looking >> at rev 3). The first bend in the F-887 upper longeron is given as 2 >> 11/32 at 80 15/16 inches, or 3. I was suspicious when 3 did not >> equal 2 11/32 (it comes out to about 4 1/4 inches), and by the recent >> RVator note about fuselages being too wide at the F-802 bulkhead. >> So, I went back to first principles. The longeron is straight >> between the F-807 and F-812 bulkheads. I extrapolated that line to >> calculate how far apart the bulkheads would be at the F-804 bulkhead, >> if there was no bend. I measured the width of my F-804 bulkhead, >> calculated the difference, and extrapolated it forward to the front >> end of the bulkhead. I calculated that I needed to bend it 4.4 >> inches. So, I bent mine 4.4 inches at 80 15/16, and did the other >> bend as per the plans. My longerons fell into place within 1/4 inch >> once I put the twist in. >> >> Has plans sheet 21 been revised to show a different bend at 80 15/16 >> inches? If so, what RVator was the revision in? If not, please >> discuss this with Engineering. >> >> Thanks >> Kevin Horton >> khorton(at)cyberus.ca >> 6730 Parkway Rd. >> Greely, ON >> K4P 1E3 >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Carter" <rv8abuild(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Stall Warning
Date: Jan 05, 2000
I flew the factory 8A from the back seat last month right after taking a one hour lesson in with Mike Seagar in the RV-6, and one of the things that Bill did was to demonstrate the mushy, gentle stall of the 8A. It was remarkable because I thought the stall in the 6 was very abrupt. In the 8A (and I assume the 8), you can hold the stick full back, power off, and it just kind of porpoises back and forth. Jerry Carter 8A-wings attached, hooking up controls ----- Original Message ----- From: <menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 2:16 PM Subject: RV-List: Stall Warning > > > I have a question for those of you flying RV-8's, -8A's, or anyone who's done > stalls in the -8/8A series. Last week I got a ride in Don Christiansen's RV-8 > in Dallas, TX and I was surprised when we did some stalls that his -8 has a very > pronounced shudder/buffet prior to stall. I have flown several times in an > RV-6A and by contrast I never noticed any discernable buffet at all in the -6A. > Don says that the RV-4 he used to fly was like the -6/6A, with no significant > buffet, but he thinks all the -8/8A series exhibit the same buffet > characteristics as his -8 does. > > Question for those of you who've done stalls in the -8/8A series, does your > experience agree with this? Seems a bit of a mystery since they all use the > same wing. Since I'm building an -8A, I'm especially interested in whether or > not to expect this characteristic (Bill Pagan, any comments??). I had been > thinking of making a cheapo piper-type stall warning tab like Tim Lewis but if > my -8A is going to shake and shudder the same as Don's -8, I'll save myself the > effort. > > --Mark Navratil > RV-8A s/n 80583 wings > Cedar Rapids, IA > > P.S.--Don also introduced me to aerobatics in an RV....loops, rolls, etc.....and > it was a blast! Those of you lucky dogs with flying RV's who haven't tried > turning it upside down yet should get some training and go have some REAL FUN! > > From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> > Subject: RV-List: Re: Stall warning. > > > On 4 Jan 00, at 19:01, pbennett(at)zip.com.au wrote: > > > Hi Tim. > > > > Did you tame that stall warning device, or are you still on higher > > priority testing? How's the flight testing going? > > > > Happy New Year. > > > > Peter Bennett > > > > > > Peter, > > I lowered the unit about 3/8" beyond original installation, and it now > comes on about 55-65 KIAS (no flaps) or 45-50 KIAS w/ flaps. It's > satisfactory as is, although on my last flight it failed to sound on the > first stall I did. Reason unknown. > > Tim > > ****** > Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA > RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99 > TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net > http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: VAN has the BEST Plans and Manual
Gary Sobek wrote: snip- There were over 1,000 RVs that were flying before I got mine flying. I build my aircraft with the documentation supplied. You can also if you are willing to LEARN as you go. In the US, we are allowed to build and operate our own aircraft [FAR 21.191 (g)] "for education or recreation." This is a learning experience. The documentation that I have seen with the newer RV kits has been improved from what I built my aircraft with. snip- Gary, I think that is well said. I was really getting tired of everybody slamming Van's plans. I've made my living making and working with engineering drawings (10 years on a drawing board at Lockheed, 2 at Disney, 7 at Aerovironment) and I can also say that the drawings are as well done as most in the industry. And the drawings are getting much better with the hiring of draftsmen at Van's. Remember that Van is a engineer, not a draftsman. 90% of the drawings for my -6 were done by him. I have found areas where it could be a little clearer, but the intend of the design could be found in the plans. In the engineering field, the drawings are the final word of the designer/draftsman. The manual and illustrations are only there to help. I, for one, am glad that Van chose to put his engineering drawings in the kits for us to see, use, and understand. If you look at a Glastar kit, (and I helped with riveting one together) all you get is a manual with illustrations and text. You do not get the INTENT of the design. You just get "insert tab A in slot B". You don't get to see why your doing what your doing. You don't get any form of an engineering drawing. Reading engineering drawings is a language in it's own. Instead of slamming the plans as unreadable, get some training in HOW to read them. Would you expect to pick up a Spanish book and expect to read it if you didn't have some training. Consider it part of "learning how to build an airplane". Personally, I read through the manual to get the idea of the assembly sequence, than let the plans tell me what to do and where. They are the final word. Thanks to Van's for the Excellent design and very workable engineering drawings. (And they keep getting better). I do think the manual could be improved with additional photos or illustrations. Sorry to take up the bandwith, but I've had it up to here with the whining. Stepping off my soapbox now, Laird RV-6 22923 SoCal (painting fuse) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: Bruce Knoll <tripod(at)oneimage.com>
Subject: Interesting chart
Listers, A most interesting chart from Kitplanes (an article yet to be published) can be found at: http://www.kitplanes.com Click on WHATS NEW Click on Supplements ------ Scroll to high performance aircraft and check out figure 1 and figure 2. Kinda makes the prolonged listings about plans and Van's astronomical net worth insignificant. BFK Building rv6a ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com>
Subject: Re: Stall Warning
>I flew the factory 8A from the back seat last month right after taking a one >hour lesson in with Mike Seagar in the RV-6, and one of the things that Bill >did was to demonstrate the mushy, gentle stall of the 8A. It was remarkable >because I thought the stall in the 6 was very abrupt. In the 8A (and I >assume the 8), you can hold the stick full back, power off, and it just kind >of porpoises back and forth. Is it possible this is a difference in the CG? Maybe the 8A had a more forward CG and didn't have enough elevator authority to really get fully stalled (remember reading the CAFE report in S.A, they mentioned an inability to do full stall landings with a forward CG). Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) President and Founder Friends of P-Chan RV-8 80091 Drilling 2nd fuel tank 1/5 Starduster II N23UT flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: F1Rocket(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Subject: Check Six Newsletter
Listers, I have completed the next issue of the Rocket Newsletter, Check Six! and am ready to send to the press. If there is anyone that is interested in a subscription to the newsletter, please let me know. Cost is $25 for the year. We have all kinds of information in it that will help RVers as well as Rocketeers. You can either call me with your order or go to our new website at www.teamrocketaircraft.com and go to the newsletter tab for the secure server credit card order. Thanks! Scott Team Rocket, inc. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com>
Subject: Panel Planner warning!
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Folks, I bought Panel Planner almost two years ago, just after starting my RV-8 project. Of course we all like to get a head start on planning our panels and get it "just right". After countless iterations and tweaks (admittedly a labor of love) I had pretty much locked in my design maybe six months ago. I then have been buying various things to put in it with a large order for the main stuff just recently. So I'm out in the garage with my full size tiled copy printout from Panel Planner, carefully cut and taped together, and my aluminum panel blank ready to draw things out and start cutting. After drawing some preliminary lines and getting all my actual instruments out I quickly realize that THEY WON'T FIT !!! We're not talking being tight by a sixteenth of an inch or so, there was no friggin way the stuff would fit even with the minimum possible instrument spacing! Turns out Panel Planner does not scale either the panel surface or the instruments accurately. This caused me to commit to a design that could not possibly work. @#%& !!! Over the course of the evening I redesigned my panel with the actual pieces and was forced to eliminate two instruments that I now have to try to return. Not good. So consider this fair warning... my suggestion is to do it the old fashioned way, with very accurate actual cutouts or actual instruments. Cutouts can create problems too because they don't let you see what sort of box structure you're dealing with behind the panel. Best way - use the actual items! Many of you know that I publish the newsletter for the Home Wing of Van's Air Force (www.edt.com/homewing). I intended to do a full review of this software some time ago and realized that even back then if I were to evaluate it objectively I'd have to be pretty critical (buggy, crashes, doesn't follow the Win9x interface, no cut/copy/paste, etc., etc.), so I kept my mouth shut and just didn't do the review. My mother always told me "if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all". Let me go on record at this point... I DO NOT RECOMMEND PANEL PLANNER. Yes, it's very nice to be able to drag icons around and plan things out. But if they're not anywhere close to accurate what good is it? BTW, my choices were essentially to A) eliminate either my conventional airspeed indicator and altimeter and go with just the microEncoder, which many builders have done, or B) eliminate my electric gyros (attitude indicator and directional gyro) and keep the asi and altimeter as backup to the microEncoder. After stewing on it and thinking hard about what I'd rather be without in real life flying I just couldn't part with the gyros. I love to fly at night, and there have been times in the past where for the briefest moment I've lost the visual horizon. Having those gyros to lock the ol eyeballs onto was a huge help and security blanket. Buy/use Panel Planner at your own risk, you have been warned. Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500, cutting panel, painting interior, trying to cool off! www.pacifier.com/`randyl Home Wing VAF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <skydiven(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: VAN has the BEST Plans and Manual
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Just a comment. One of the two gentleman who commented on the plans being first rate said, 'I've made my living making and working with engineering drawings ' and the other said, 'I have been working in industry and aerospace for over 20 years.' Ok gents, your resumes aside, and before you mount your 'anti whining' campaign, consider that these are HOME BUILT aircraft built by house wives, dentists, carpenters and college students. Any clearer the plans can be THE SAFER THE FINISHED PRODUCT IS ! People who read prints and plans all day every day for a living may consider the Vans drawings to be as easy as reading the newspaper...but keep in mind that the drawings you are comparing them to were drawn up for people 'in the industry' who make their livings putting aircraft together. Yes, those people should NOT need a simplified drawing, or one made easier to read for the sake of proper assembly by amateurs and non laymen. As a contractor and an engineer I read plans everyday, but I'm also not so far removed from reality that I don't realize not everyone can do so. Flatly saying that everyone should 'learn to read the blueprints' is simply assinine. These are amateur built planes and one mistake could cost people THEIR LIVES. Even if everyone SHOULD learn to read plans better, the possibility that mistakes are made because the drawings are difficult to read is undesirable at best and damned dangerous at worst. A grassroot request for simpler, more accurate plans is far FAR from 'whining'. As professionals who deal with plans everyday, you should realize as I do that making them clear and accurate is not much harder to do. Yes, when the aircraft is first released there will be errors found and corrected, but clarity should never EVER be an issue when the market you are aiming at is described as 'amateur'. Otherwise you are risking people's lives. Just another whiner Bill Shook P.S. Yes I know there are thousands flying around out there, but how many more are sitting in storage because the owner can't figure out how to read the drawings? Ask Van how many empennage kits he's sold and compare that to the number of flying aircraft. Gary and Laird should not take this as any sort of slam on them, just pointing out that our professional expertise sometimes makes us 'experts.' > > Gary Sobek wrote: > > snip- > There were over 1,000 RVs that were flying before I > got mine flying. I build my aircraft with the > documentation supplied. You can also if you are > willing to LEARN as you go. In the US, we are allowed > to build and operate our own aircraft [FAR 21.191 (g)] > "for education or recreation." This is a learning > experience. The documentation that I have seen with > the newer RV kits has been improved from what I built > my aircraft with. > snip- > > Gary, > > I think that is well said. I was really getting tired of everybody slamming Van's plans. > > I've made my living making and working with engineering drawings (10 years on a drawing board at Lockheed, 2 at Disney, 7 at Aerovironment) and I can also say that the drawings are as well done as most in the industry. And the drawings are getting much better with the hiring of draftsmen at Van's. > Remember that Van is a engineer, not a draftsman. 90% of the drawings for my -6 were done by him. I have found areas where it could be a little clearer, but the intend of the design could be found in the plans. In the engineering field, the drawings are the final word of the designer/draftsman. The manual and illustrations are only there to help. > > I, for one, am glad that Van chose to put his engineering drawings in the kits for us to see, use, and understand. If you look at a Glastar kit, (and I helped with riveting one together) all you get is a manual with illustrations and text. You do not get the INTENT of the design. You just get "insert tab A in slot B". You don't get to see why your doing what your doing. You don't get any form of an engineering drawing. > > Reading engineering drawings is a language in it's own. Instead of slamming the plans as unreadable, get some training in HOW to read them. Would you expect to pick up a Spanish book and expect to read it if you didn't have some training. Consider it part of "learning how to build an airplane". > > Personally, I read through the manual to get the idea of the assembly sequence, than let the plans tell me what to do and where. They are the final word. > > Thanks to Van's for the Excellent design and very workable engineering drawings. (And they keep getting better). I do think the manual could be improved with additional photos or illustrations. > > Sorry to take up the bandwith, but I've had it up to here with the whining. > > Stepping off my soapbox now, > > Laird RV-6 22923 > SoCal (painting fuse) > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Panel Planner warning!
Date: Jan 05, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: Randy Lervold <randyl(at)pacifier.com> > > So I'm out in the garage with my full size tiled copy printout from Panel > Planner, carefully cut and taped together, and my aluminum panel blank ready > to draw things out and start cutting. After drawing some preliminary lines > and getting all my actual instruments out I quickly realize that THEY WON'T > FIT !!! We're not talking being tight by a sixteenth of an inch or so, > there was no friggin way the stuff would fit even with the minimum possible > instrument spacing! Turns out Panel Planner does not scale either the panel > surface or the instruments accurately. This caused me to commit to a design > that could not possibly work. @#%& !!! > Randy, Before you give up on Panel Planner, be aware that most CAD programs have to have the scale adjusted to the particular printer that you are using. Their internal accuracy can be close to 100%, but if you print it on a printer that has an even slightly different horizontal and vertical resolution, you are going to get a drawing that is out of scale. You might be able to have a printing service print your drawing full scale and accurately, then again maybe not. I have no experience with Panel Planner, but I have been using AutoCAD since 1986, and I would be very careful if I were after a full-scale drawing that needed to be precise, and it would have nothing to do with AutoCAD itself. Then again, maybe the problem you are having has nothing to do with this. Terry Watson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark D. Dickens" <mddickens(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Check Six Newsletter
Date: Jan 05, 2000
How about a sample issue before we commit our dollars? Mark Dickens DNA ----- Original Message ----- From: <F1Rocket(at)aol.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 4:53 PM Subject: RV-List: Check Six Newsletter > > Listers, I have completed the next issue of the Rocket Newsletter, Check Six! > and am ready to send to the press. If there is anyone that is interested in a > subscription to the newsletter, please let me know. Cost is $25 for the year. > We have all kinds of information in it that will help RVers as well as > Rocketeers. You can either call me with your order or go to our new website > at www.teamrocketaircraft.com and go to the newsletter tab for the secure > server credit card order. Thanks! > > Scott > Team Rocket, inc. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: "dgmurray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: VAN has the BEST Plans and Manual
. Flatly saying that >>everyone should 'learn to read the blueprints' is simply assinine. These >>are amateur built planes and one mistake could cost people THEIR LIVES. >>Even if everyone SHOULD learn to read plans better, the possibility that >>mistakes are made because the drawings are difficult to read is undesirable >>at best and damned dangerous at worst. A grassroot request for simpler, >>more accurate plans is far FAR from 'whining'. As professionals who deal >>with plans everyday, you should realize as I do that making them clear and >>accurate is not much harder to do. I agree that clear plans are a benifit to a well built aircraft, but lets not forget that we all got into this hobby to have fun and LEARN HOW. If you are going to use the excuse that it is "assinine" to learn how to read the plans , then it would be just as easy to excuse yourself that it is too hard to rivet properly, or follow proper metal working techniques. As an Amatuer Built Inspector I have seen many cases where the builder figures that it is "good enough" - a case of a lazy person not willing to put out a bit more effort to learn. I have also struggled with Van's plans and have submitted changes to Vans as I found needed corrections. For a project this size and complex I have to agree that Van's is doing a good job with the plans and corrections. I hope that all the builders who are committed to building a flyable aircraft will also have the desire to learn the skills neccessary to complete a project that everyone can be proud of and safe in. Now I must get back to my engine installation on my RV-6. Maybe it will fly this year! Doug Murray RV-6 Southern Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: VAN has the BEST Plans and Manual
Bill Once again you've hit the nail on the head. Some of you need to remember its the whiners just like us who tossed a bunch tea in a certain harbor many years ago, and because of them we have the right to disagree and thank god drive on the proper side of the road. Just ask your self how many times has Scott, on his own time, jumped in saved someone major grief. Why? Because he is a great guy and cares about the builders. Happy to be just another whiner. Garry. Bill Shook wrote: > > Just a comment. One of the two gentleman who commented on the plans being > first rate said, 'I've made my living making and working with engineering > drawings ' and the other said, 'I have been working in industry and > aerospace for over 20 years.' Ok gents, your resumes aside, and before > you mount your 'anti whining' campaign, consider that these are HOME BUILT > aircraft built by house wives, dentists, carpenters and college students. > Any clearer the plans can be THE SAFER THE FINISHED PRODUCT IS ! People > who read prints and plans all day every day for a living may consider the > Vans drawings to be as easy as reading the newspaper...but keep in mind that > the drawings you are comparing them to were drawn up for people 'in the > industry' who make their livings putting aircraft together. Yes, those > people should NOT need a simplified drawing, or one made easier to read for > the sake of proper assembly by amateurs and non laymen. As a contractor > and an engineer I read plans everyday, but I'm also not so far removed from > reality that I don't realize not everyone can do so. Flatly saying that > everyone should 'learn to read the blueprints' is simply assinine. These > are amateur built planes and one mistake could cost people THEIR LIVES. > Even if everyone SHOULD learn to read plans better, the possibility that > mistakes are made because the drawings are difficult to read is undesirable > at best and damned dangerous at worst. A grassroot request for simpler, > more accurate plans is far FAR from 'whining'. As professionals who deal > with plans everyday, you should realize as I do that making them clear and > accurate is not much harder to do. Yes, when the aircraft is first released > there will be errors found and corrected, but clarity should never EVER be > an issue when the market you are aiming at is described as 'amateur'. > Otherwise you are risking people's lives. > > Just another whiner > Bill Shook > > P.S. Yes I know there are thousands flying around out there, but how many > more are sitting in storage because the owner can't figure out how to read > the drawings? Ask Van how many empennage kits he's sold and compare that > to the number of flying aircraft. Gary and Laird should not take this as > any sort of slam on them, just pointing out that our professional expertise > sometimes makes us 'experts.' > > > > > Gary Sobek wrote: > > > > snip- > > There were over 1,000 RVs that were flying before I > > got mine flying. I build my aircraft with the > > documentation supplied. You can also if you are > > willing to LEARN as you go. In the US, we are allowed > > to build and operate our own aircraft [FAR 21.191 (g)] > > "for education or recreation." This is a learning > > experience. The documentation that I have seen with > > the newer RV kits has been improved from what I built > > my aircraft with. > > snip- > > > > Gary, > > > > I think that is well said. I was really getting tired of everybody > slamming Van's plans. > > > > I've made my living making and working with engineering drawings (10 years > on a drawing board at Lockheed, 2 at Disney, 7 at Aerovironment) and I can > also say that the drawings are as well done as most in the industry. And the > drawings are getting much better with the hiring of draftsmen at Van's. > > Remember that Van is a engineer, not a draftsman. 90% of the drawings for > my -6 were done by him. I have found areas where it could be a little > clearer, but the intend of the design could be found in the plans. In the > engineering field, the drawings are the final word of the > designer/draftsman. The manual and illustrations are only there to help. > > > > I, for one, am glad that Van chose to put his engineering drawings in the > kits for us to see, use, and understand. If you look at a Glastar kit, (and > I helped with riveting one together) all you get is a manual with > illustrations and text. You do not get the INTENT of the design. You just > get "insert tab A in slot B". You don't get to see why your doing what your > doing. You don't get any form of an engineering drawing. > > > > Reading engineering drawings is a language in it's own. Instead of > slamming the plans as unreadable, get some training in HOW to read them. > Would you expect to pick up a Spanish book and expect to read it if you > didn't have some training. Consider it part of "learning how to build an > airplane". > > > > Personally, I read through the manual to get the idea of the assembly > sequence, than let the plans tell me what to do and where. They are the > final word. > > > > Thanks to Van's for the Excellent design and very workable engineering > drawings. (And they keep getting better). I do think the manual could be > improved with additional photos or illustrations. > > > > Sorry to take up the bandwith, but I've had it up to here with the > whining. > > > > Stepping off my soapbox now, > > > > Laird RV-6 22923 > > SoCal (painting fuse) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Jet Glo Adventures (Real Long)
Date: Jan 05, 2000
FWIW, here in Colorado (fairly close to New Mexico . . . and Texas) there apparently is a paint shop in Akron (Colorado). I have not talked to them--but I have seen about 4 RV's painted by them . . . and they look excellent. Rick Jory, Highlands Ranch, Co -----Original Message----- From: n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> Date: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 2:05 PM Subject: RV-List: Jet Glo Adventures (Real Long) > >Listers, > >I had my plane professionally painted and just got it back yesterday. >The few places it has been parked so far have been assailed by gawkers >from all directions. So all is well right, just show the painter your >design and relax for two weeks, then for ever after bask in the glow of >all the attention? Much better than just to paint it yourself? Well not >really! > >In my case I really did not have a choice. My plane was built in a >friends television repair shop and is currently hangared in a dusty >tee-hangar with about 60 volts of AC. But, if I had a choice I probably >would have leaned toward a professional job, after all those guys have so >much experience and all. I now think if at all possible everyone should >paint their own plane. > >I first started looking for a paint shop in about July 1999 after first >flying my Rv-6 in May. The place that kept coming up was A&A Aircraft in >Big Spring, TX. I had seen a lot of paint jobs from this shop and it >does have a pretty good reputation. When I called they quoted their >standard RV price and told me RV's are real simple to paint. At the time >the thing that put me off the most was his insistence on clear coat. I >was looking for as light a job as possible and primer and Jet Glo and >clear coat does not sound real light. He told me the whole kit and >caboodle would weigh "about 6 pounds." Van's says a thin, no primer >paint job is about 15 pounds with two or three times that 15 being more >likely. I think the discrepancy here is that Vans owns a scale. I did >not note one sitting around at A&A. > >After flying for around one hundred hours and fixing many things that >broke and building a new set of wheel pants I started getting serious >about looking for a paint shop again. Some experiences Will Cretsinger >had with a shop in Hondo, Texas as well as further investigation still >pointed to A&A as a decent place. > >When I called this time there was no mention of mandatory clear coat, it >was a two or three hundred dollar option. This was what made me finally >decide on A&A. Who needs clear coat on polyurethane airplane paint; it >is wet look anyway? I took the plane in at the very end of November. He >said it should be out just before Christmas, but by New Year at the >latest. He even agreed to not remove control surfaces and to not paint >any screws. I was very afraid mistakes would be made if I allowed a lot >of disassembly. I also found out that he is proud of the fact he paints >the N number on instead of using the pre-done ones. > >I won't go into all the gory details as to all my phone calls and why I >eventually stopped calling and waited for them to call me and all the >arrangements I made with friends for a ferry flight to go pick up my >plane only to have to cancel and make new arrangements with someone else. > I won't go into all the reasons and excuses for the delays, but some >were running out of materials, "it didn't turn out good," "I'll be >honest, I messed it up," and so on. Even yesterday it turns out there >was another call postponing again, but I had already left. > >What I found when I arrived at Big Spring was a stunning looking airplane >with a glossy finish. Just one big run underneath as well as a few other >bad looking spots. BUT, about three fourths of the screws are painted >over. I figure it will take me two or three days to break all those >loose, patch the paint and reinstall new screws. All the fairings were >installed incorrectly. Rubber strip bending wrong way, overlaps in the >wrong direction, etc. The N numbers look terrible. The paint is about >15 or 20 thousandths thick with block edges and gouges in the paint where >some tool was used to remove masking. The numbers don't have normal >proportions (the P has a tiny loop). The plane is clear coated after all >(at no additional cost) because he could not get an acceptable finish on >the black. Also about ten critical screws were loose on delivery (behind >spinner and lower cowl). If I would not have checked I would have had >more breakage. > >One of the hand-made stick grips is now broken and loose from the stick >and I now have trim-tab problems as well as a scratched up canopy with >some overspray on it. > >Partly because of experiences at quick oil change places I do not like to >entrust my stuff to other people but have figured maybe I am just too >sensitive. Well maybe I'm not. These guys do have more experience >getting a nice looking finish but I don't think they will ever sweat the >details like the builder will. They just do not care as much. > >If you can stand the idea at all, and have the facilities, I recommend >you do your own paint. You'll add two years to your life through not >worrying so much. > >My paint is not as bad as it probably seems after reading this. It >really does look nice and he has offered to repair anything I ask. > >When I get a digital photo I'll put it on my web-site. > > >Larry Pardue >Carlsbad, NM > >RV-6 N441LP > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: VAN has the BEST Plans and Manual
Just one comment, then I'll leave it alone. BIll, please don't take this personally. Bill wrote: "Ok gents, your resumes aside, and before you mount your 'anti whining' campaign," I just wanted to present another view to the conversation. snip- consider that these are HOME BUILT aircraft built by house wives, dentists, carpenters and college students." snip- I'm sorry, but it's not a God given right to have a product that is so refined that any "house wife, dentist, or carpenter" should be able to build it. We are privileged that someone who has a good design would like to share it with us in any state of completion. If you plan on building something of this complexity, you should have some, or get some, background knowledge of what you'll be working on. Just because you can afford the kit, doesn't mean you can build a safe airplane, no matter what level of documentation is in the kit. I stated that the drawings are up to industry standards. What level do you lower them to so that any layman can read them? And at what cost? I think the answer is not to lower the standards of the drawings, but increase the amount of information and assistance in the manual. Stoddard Hamilton has the best illustrations and instruction manuals I've seen. But they don't supply ONE engineering drawing. You have to build by faith. Not for me, thanks. Respectfully, Laird RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com>
Subject: Re: VAN has the BEST Plans and Manual
Date: Jan 05, 2000
-----Original Message----- From: Bill Shook <skydiven(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: VAN has the BEST Plans and Manual Bill, et al: The recent traffic on the list about Van's plans, kits, service etc. has prompted me to reflect a bit on the industry that has become so important to the aviation community. The amateur built aircraft segment of the business has evolved in a rather short time from one where there were no plans, just the impulse to build an airplane, to a supply of plans for aircraft (some of which were actually built and tested, some not) to plans plus a partial kit of airframe materials (usually only the most difficult to fabricate or obtain) to plans plus airframe kits that were mostly complete, to plans plus airframe material kits that offer a high degree of completeness. At this stage the designers offerings are still primarily related to the airframe. Lately, some companies have begun offering additional elements such as forewall forward assemblies, instrument panels fabricated and tested as well. At least three companies that started in the kit business have certified airplanes (certified as verb, not adjective). There have been calls for simpler and more accurate plans. I don't know exactly what is meant by "more accurate". Certainly the plans should not contain errors but designers are as apt as anyone to make mistakes and the good ones strive constantly to identify and eliminate them. They look forward to whatever help is out there in this regard. However their resources and time are not unlimited and as a consequence corrections may not occur immediately. I have in my possession a set of plans for the Cassutt racer, published about 1960 which are wonderful in their simplicity and accuracy. They consist of four pages about 12" by 18" and provide only the barest outline of the structure of the airplane. It would take more that a little skill and inventiveness to build from them. If by "accurate" is meant "completeness" then I would point out that drawings as a practical matter must in a sense be incomplete because to draw utterly everything would likely result in something indecipherable. I was apparently unable and unwilling to build from the Cassutt plans but was able to build an RV-4 from the plans and kit circa 1982, so each person will find a level of comfort in their choice of a project. Similarly, the builders manual can best be regarded as an outline and not as a "do this, then this, then this document. An airplane is a complex device. There are often several ways to accomplish given tasks. Certain fundamental knowledge is essential in building an airplane. If a potential builder does not have it he or she should strive to obtain it. If that is not possible then that person should consider getting help from someone who has it or consider standing down from the project. If the builder cannot identify potentially unsafe conditions then help is needed. Not everyone can or should try to build an airplane. That may sound elitest but it is not meant that way. I believe it is true. The fact that Van is offering other components does not change the fact that he is basically selling an airframe kit. The guidelines for engine installation, electrical systems, instruments etc. are to assist the builder in those aspects of the project that are totally the builder's responsibility. The day may come when they will be more than guidelines but that day is not yet here. The above is my opinion and offered in the hope of providing additional perspective. No criticism of any individual(s) is intended. Indeed, I hope those who want to build an airplane will find the challenge sufficiently stimulating to go after that fundamental knowledge and having obtained that, go further up the learning curve than that. Gordon Comfort N363GC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BumFlyer(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Subject: Re: Jet Glo
In a message dated 1/5/0 18:42:24, rickjory(at)email.msn.com writes: FWIW, here in Colorado (fairly close to New Mexico . . . and Texas) there apparently is a paint shop in Akron (Colorado). I have not talked to them--but I have seen about 4 RV's painted by them . . . and they look excellent. Rick Jory, Highlands Ranch, Co >> This is Noel Weiss at Akron. he is now scheduled 13 months in advance. He produces on time and does an excellent job. Takes two weeks. I decided since I was born under a lucky star, to let him take it apart. He took off alll surfaces and fairings. No errors. Did replace a lot of ugly screws with new ones. I heard his basic RV price is now $4K. I paid 3K two and a half years ago. It is jet glo and mine is still hanging in there with no weathering, etc. He uses an epoxy primer and the jetglo. He said it would weigh about twenty to thirty pounds and I believe him but did not weigh it. He offered to clear coat if I insisted, for extra $ but he did not recommend it. D Walsh ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Jet Glo Adventures (Real Long)
Date: Jan 05, 2000
>From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Jet Glo Adventures (Real Long) >Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 18:32:23 -0700 > > >FWIW, here in Colorado (fairly close to New Mexico . . . and Texas) there >apparently is a paint shop in Akron (Colorado). I have not talked to >them--but I have seen about 4 RV's painted by them . . . and they look >excellent. >Rick Jory, Highlands Ranch, Co Rick and all paint ponderers, Rick, by all means, find out who they are! I plan to paint my plane this spring or early summer. From Albuquerque to most anywhere in Colorado is a quick trip, and a scenic one at that. Who ever ends up painting it, they are going to get a pre-paint-purchase inspection by me...without advanced warning. I'll just show up one day and take a look at what they're working on, the care taken or not taken, etc. I can't think of a better way to get my personal comfort level under control about the whole thing. A place in Missouri I'm currently planning on doing business with offered to send digital photos via email whenever I ask of the plane in progress. I know this won't show the runs and goofs, but will at least assure me that the colors are right and the trim lines/N numbers are as I requested. I know that even though I'm an amateur with paint, I would take more care and pay attention to detail more than ANY hired painter possibly could. I've accepted this fact as just the nature of doing business in this modern world. Still, I simply do not have the equipment, facilities and patience to deal with doing it myself. The airplane is flying, I do NOT want to take the wings off again to truck it to someones shop. Painting it in my hangar would piss off the airport management something fierce then the EPA gestapo would be on my doorstep with the shackles. NOT a good idea! Meanwhile, I'm flying it and having a blast. I'll worry more about the paint later. MUCH later. Thanks for the bandwidth, Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Subject: UHMW Tape
Listers, Has anyone experience any nagative effect of using UHMW tape? Does it handle the heat/cold, occasional fuel/oil spill well? Thanks in advance, N985VU RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: Warren Gretz <gretz_aero(at)h2net.net>
Subject: Heated Pitot tubes
I have a new batch of heated pitot tubes (both the AN5814 and the PH502-12CR) just received, and of course, my chrome plated mounting bracket kits and all are ready for shipment to you. If you would like a set of flyers on these items or other RV aircraft items I sell, send me your US Postal address, off the list please, and I will send these to you right a way. I also now accept VISA and MC if you would like to phone in your order. Thanks. Warren Gretz Gretz Aero 3664 E. Lake Drive Littleton, CO 80121 303-770-3811 gretz_aero(at)h2net.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Panel Planner warning!
> Buy/use Panel Planner at your own risk, you have been warned. > Randy, as a data point; what version of P.P. were you using? They are up to V2.7 at present and perhaps (hopefully) have addressed this(?). Attention Sam Buchanan! Did you find this to be the case with the panel you layed out using P.P. V2.52? Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Skinnin' Wings (and drawing panels!) Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Subject: Re: Panel Planner warning!
From: "James Freeman" <cd005677(at)mindspring.com>
---------- >From: "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com> >To: "RV List" >Subject: RV-List: Panel Planner warning! >Date: Wed, Jan 5, 2000, 5:02 PM > > no friggin way the stuff would fit even with the minimum possible > instrument spacing! Turns out Panel Planner does not scale either the panel > surface or the instruments accurately. This caused me to commit to a design > that could not possibly work. @#%& What version of panel planner do you have? I was at a friends house the other night and he showed me his planned RV-8 panel which didn't resemble the RV-8. I suspect it is a Harmon Rocket panel. He is using version 2.0 My version(2.7) has the right shape and all the prepunched holes and "eyeballs" right. maybe i need to measure more carefully? James Freeman RV-8QB fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Subject: Re: Stall Warning
From: "James Freeman" <cd005677(at)mindspring.com>
---------- >From: menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Stall Warning >Date: Wed, Jan 5, 2000, 2:16 PM > > Last week I got a ride in Don Christiansen's RV-8 > in Dallas, TX and I was surprised when we did some stalls that his -8 has a very > pronounced shudder/buffet prior to stall. I have flown several times in an > RV-6A and by contrast I never noticed any discernable buffet at all in the -6A. I agree with Jerry. I flew the factory RV-8A with Bill Benedict(from the back) and the red training RV-6 with Mike Seager back-to-back on the same day. The RV-8A with Bill B. in the front and me in the back (around 175#) had almost a 182-like buffett. It was pronounced enough that I noticed the canopy bouncing on the rails. The RV-6 with a FP prop had much less aerodynamic stall warning (basically -no- warning with my spam-can calibrated butt...). FWIW I have flown a wood-prop, O-320 RV-4 from the front with a passenger, and felt that it had basically the same stall behavior as the six. The four did seem to have more directional (yaw) stability and higher rudder pressures but that may be individual airplanes. I suspect some of the difference may be CG position. Any comments from anyone flying a -6 or -6A with a heavy motor/prop? James Freeman RV-8Q fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Subject: Re: Jet Glo
In a message dated 1/5/00 7:08:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, BumFlyer(at)aol.com writes: << FWIW, here in Colorado (fairly close to New Mexico . . . and Texas) there apparently is a paint shop in Akron (Colorado). I have not talked to them--but I have seen about 4 RV's painted by them . . . and they look excellent. Rick Jory, Highlands Ranch, Co >> This is Noel Weiss at Akron. >> How about a phone number and e-mail address for the Yeller Pages. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Subject: Re: Check Six Newsletter
In a message dated 1/5/2000 6:39:06 PM Central Standard Time, mddickens(at)mindspring.com writes: << How about a sample issue before we commit our dollars? Mark Dickens >> Think about it this way. Mark Fredricks will be contribuiting and I personally beleive he is one of the most knowledgeable people at building rockets and RV's as I have seen planes he build from the RVs series to the new f-1 rocket to bruce bohannans exxon plane thats breaking the records. Mark left the RV list since there are some complete assholes on the RV list, but hey its a free country. You can post what you want, but more people could have supported mark so he stayed on the lists. Thank god hes such a nice guy that I can call when I want and get help on my F-1 rocket. But back to the rocket newsletter. I dropped extra to advertise my insurance business in it with out seeing it. I know that it will be ok and only get better as more people subscribe to it. And then again what is $25 specially when you considered the cost of printing an mailing the newsletter. Take a chance, I am sure if you really hate the newsletter and ask Scott and Mark nicely they will refund your money. Chris Wilcox F-1 Rocket ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Twin Cities RV Forum
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Fellow Listers: Allow me to begin to shamelessly promote our 6th Annual Twin Cities RV Forum. Date will be Sat April 1 at Red Wing, MN. The schedule is still under construction but guest speakers will include Bill Benedict (gen mgr of Van's Aircraft), George Orndorff, Larry Vetterman, plus local experts on building and flying. RV's on display, product info, vendors, door prizes plus the soon-to-be- world-famous Twin Cities RV Air Race. Evening banquet at the St. James Hotel in downtown Red Wing. More info at http://www.pressenter.com/~dougweil/rvforum.html Website still lacks all the details, but more will be forthcoming in the months ahead. Doug Weiler, pres MN Wing =========== Doug Weiler Hudson, WI 715-386-1239 dougweil(at)pressenter.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com>
Subject: Pressure Testing Hose
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Does anyone know what pressure my fuel and oil hoses should be pressure tested to? Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://members.home.net/rv8er Finish Kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: Panel Planner warning!
Date: Jan 05, 2000
> Randy, as a data point; what version of P.P. were you using? > They are up to V2.7 at present and perhaps (hopefully) have addressed > this(?). I'm using v2.7. Also, someone else made a comment that the software might need to be calibrated for the particular printer. Well the PP has the panel at least 3/4" too tall and the instruments too small. Obviously not an overall scaling issue. Randy Lervold ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: Panel Planner warning!
Date: Jan 05, 2000
> My version(2.7) has the right shape and all the prepunched holes and > "eyeballs" right. maybe i need to measure more carefully? > > James Freeman > RV-8QB fuse Print it out and compare it to the actual panel, or to the measurements on your plans... it won't match. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Panel Planner warning!
Mike Thompson wrote: > > > > > Buy/use Panel Planner at your own risk, you have been warned. > > > > Randy, as a data point; what version of P.P. were you using? > They are up to V2.7 at present and perhaps (hopefully) have addressed > this(?). > > Attention Sam Buchanan! Did you find this to be the case with the > panel you layed out using P.P. V2.52? Mike, I found Panel Planner to be a very valuable tool for visualizing various iterations of the panel on my RV-6. I did not use the program for a cutting template when I actually committed flycutter to metal. There are various ribs and obstructions behind the panel of the tip-up that have to be taken into consideration before you start cutting the panel. I laid the printout of the final panel configuration on the blank panel (it fit very well) and made minor adjustments so nothing would hit the stuff behind the panel. Yes, the program has a couple of rough edges, but I really enjoyed being able to play "what if" every time I came up with a new idea for the panel. For me, the software was a much faster and more enjoyable process than playing with paper dolls. You can read my review of Panel Planner here: http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/pnlplnnr.html Sam Buchanan "The RV Journal" http://hoem.hiway.net/~sbuc/journal EAA tech counselor ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com>
Subject: Re: Pannel Layout
Date: Jan 06, 2000
don, what was the turnaround time for your panel?? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Subject: Re: Plans (Long)
From: Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com>
This post is intended for anyone lurking on the list and wondering if they could really build one of these kits from the awful plans and manuals provided. All others should just delete now...You have your minds made up already (one way or the other). I wanted to point out one of the major drawbacks to a forum such as this (the RV list). Any one in the world can preach what ever they want, about any subject they want, without anyone else really knowing if they know what they are talking about. You may find it interesting that in just this one day, we have had posts from 2 different people building the exact same airplane (RV-8 or 8A). I am not providing names because that is not important, but these two people wrote about there personal experiences being total extreme opposites. One poster mentions the quality of his RV-8 fuselage kit being "incredible". That the manual is "very well written", "the plans are easy to read", and "the parts are very well made through out". And then from another poster (whom it sounds like has a lot of life long experience building and working on things mechanical) we get "it's a darned shame that such a simple thing as clear and easy to follow directions stands in the way of a more pleasant and productive building experience". So which one is right? Maybe both. This type of thing is relative to persons needs. There are a lot of different personalities of people in this world. Each person has his/her own requirements for any thing technical. The main point though is that these are not snap together models. If they were we would likely have many people building them that should not even consider building something as complex as an airplane. Maybe that is even the case right now. At Van's we occasionally joke that we would be better off just buying back kits from certain particular customers because of the trouble they are having. This of course is the extreme, and most people that put there minds to doing a project like this are successful. Far to often we also see people comparing the plans and manuals in a generic sense. Vans Aircraft has now been in the kit plane business for 28 years. It is unfair to compare the plans and manual from the RV-3 to that of the RV-8, or any of the models to any other for that matter. Each one has been successively better, and the new designs that are coming up the ladder will be even better yet. No one at Van's believes that things can't be improved. We are currently working on the RV-9 wing construction manual and are looking at more ways to make it even easier for all of the newer builders that are coming along. Unfortunately, as we have already seen, it is still not likely to please every one. It has been suggested that someone building an airplane shouldn't have to learn to read plans. This is absurd. It is a complex project and anyone that feels that learning new things technical should not be a requirement of building something technical, then they would probably be better off learning wood carving. Now if you are not a rocket scientist your self (maybe a dentist or a house wife) but you are not afraid to consider a project like this a learning experience in which you will educate your self in what ever way is necessary to get the job done, then go for it. That is the attitude that has given success to hundreds of other RV builders. Over the years... building an RV has often been compared to building a house. Few people who build there own house know how to do all the steps when they start. They have to learn to pour concrete. Learn to frame the main structure. Learn plumbing, and electrical, roofing and finish carpentry. Now you can go out and get books that will "tell" you how to do all of these things. But I don't think anyone in there right mind would attempt to do it all on there own from a set of blue prints and all of the books that "tell you how to do it". I'm sure you can see that it is just as foolish for anyone to think that they could do it constructing an airplane. If you are someone who feels that you should be able to do this, then please consider another hobby. If you are ready to learn about an exiting activity (and never stop learning more and more each day) and you aren't afraid to take what ever steps necessary to learn what you need to learn, then you will get more enjoyment out of doing something like this than you probably have doing any thing else in your life. Bottom line... Use the RV list to gain in that required knowledge, but at the same time try and begin to learn what information to save, and what information to pitch in the trash. Scott McDaniels North Plains, OR These opinions and ideas are my own and may not reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: N number story N6R (kinda long)
Date: Jan 05, 2000
With the recent thread on N numbers I thought some people might be interested to hear how I got my number, N6R. I spent hours searching the internet databases trying to find a number I liked. Settled on a 5 digit one that was available and reserved it, but still couldn't get away from wanting something a little more "special". I wanted a short one but of course they're all taken. Still, I kept looking, searching for clues that one might be "orphaned", like on an old homebuilt that may be out of service or something like that. I learned some interesting things along the way, like the fact that numbers on planes that are confiscated from drug runners are taken out of circulation for a while, so that some customs agent who didn't get the word won't bust the poor unsuspecting person who picked it up later on. Anyhow, my eye lit on this one in the "reserved" database, but when I saw who owned it -- RJ Reynolds Tobacco company, I said sheesh forget it, there's no way I'll be able to pry it away from a big corporation like that. Then I thought again and said to myself what the heck, it's worth a phone call at least. So I called directory assistance in North Carolina and got ahold of the RJ Reynolds corporate flight department. Asked for someone who would handle the N numbers on the planes and was transferred to the chief pilot. The conversation went something like this: Me: Hello I'm looking for an N number for my plane and noticed that you have N6R reserved. I know its a long shot but thought I'd ask if you'd be at all willing to let it go? Him: (businesslike) Ah, well, no, I don't think so. You see, we keep those for historical purposes. Most of them were on planes in the old days, like our old Beechcraft, DC-3, etc. Me: Well, yeah, ok, I just thought I'd ask. Him: Yes of course, I understand. It is a good number, I can see why you'd want it. What plane were you thinking of putting it on? Me: Well you see, I'm building an RV-6, and getting close to getting it finished. Him: Really? Hey, I've got an RV-4! A bunch of us here have RV-4s! We keep them in the hangar with the Gulfstream! Wow, wouldn't that be a cool number for an RV-6! You know, come to think of it, that particular number isn't one that we ever had on a plane, I don't know how we ended up with it -- a trade or something like that! Hmm, I'll bet we could even let that one go.... By this time his voice had gone up a couple of octaves and lost all of its businesslike quality, and we spent the next 20 minutes shooting the bull about RVs. The upshot was he released it to me with no strings attached. And here's the kicker -- the "Him:" is none other than Pat Hatch, a regular contributor to the RV-List! Thanks again Pat! Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~50 hrs) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PANELCUT(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Panel Planner warning!
Listers I have to defend Panel Planner in the fact that it was never designed to be used for that purpose it's a visual aid only. Gordon Pratt told me himself that the panel shape was NOT TO SCALE but close. I use it to import the instrument placement into AutoCAD and I still have to redraw the instruments, but I get the layout and it keeps it close. For $200.00 it's a helpful and needed tool if you understand the limitations. It's not a machining package but a tool designed for those people who do not want to learn CAD, and provides a way for the builder to show what he wants the end results to be. Let's face it panel cutting is a diffcult task, even myself using a CNC router with two good CAD/CAM packages can have problems with this task. I have cut alot of RV panels and had to redraw all of them from scratch, no two where the same. Van's supplies detailed drawings and I mean detailed of the panel for each model. I have drawn these using the spec's and none have ever fit perfect as a matter of fact alot were not even close. So if Vans can't get it perfect .....what makes us think Panel Planner has to be. Steve Davis The Panel Pilot ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: bramsec <bramsec(at)idirect.com>
Subject: Speed to Horsepower Chart
Does anyone have a chart/table giving required horsepower for specifice speed for an RV6 Regards Peter (C-GFLG Toronto) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TColeE(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: To the airport
Well, just wanted to share a milestone: N468 TC went to the airport today at 9:00pm just got home at 12:30 and wife is asleep. What a stressful ordeal, no problems. Four of us did it, now there is just the final assembly left and then I'll just have to fly it. Shop sure looks big. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: Mark Todd <motodd(at)pol.net>
Subject: Re: RV-8 Tail Buffet
> "when we did some stalls that his -8 has a very pronounced shudder/buffet prior to stall....Question for those of you who've done stalls in the -8/8A series, does your experience agree with this?" The RV8 that I was lucky enough to fly a few times had a VERY pronounced tail buffet as well. It was completely resolved by a body strake at the leading edge/fuselage intersection. Paul Robertson (Aeronautical Testing Services-Arlington WA pr(at)aerotestsvc.com) overheard our lunchtime discussion of the problem, strolled out to the ramp, walked around the plane for a minute, and nonchalantly sketched the strake out on a paper napkin for us. The strake was about seven inches long and three inches wide. Mid chord of the strake was centered over the leading edge of the wing, positioned about 1 and 3/4 inches above the wing surface, as I recall. After testing the idea with a strake bent from some scrap .025" aluminum, a permanent strake was purchased from Paul as it was very nicely made, part of some twin engined plane's STC'd STOL kit they sell. That RV8 was purchased by someone from Texas. The original owner/builder is travelling for the next three months, so I won't be able to get any more info from him. Mark RV4 KAWO ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pressure Testing Hose
Paul, I would test them to 10 times working pressure, that should be sufficient. Being somewhat fanatical all of mine were tested to 2000 PSI. Dick at W. M. said it wasn't necessary, but they held the pressure for two hours without a leak. Makes me feel better if nothing else. My hoses are the Earl's Speed Flex that you recommended. Paul Besing wrote: > > Does anyone know what pressure my fuel and oil hoses should be pressure > tested to? > > Paul Besing > RV-6A (197AB) Arizona > http://members.home.net/rv8er > Finish Kit > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pbennett(at)zip.com.au
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Pressure Testing Hose
My local airport maintenance shop tested mine to 2500 psi. Peter Bennett RV6 Sydney > > Does anyone know what pressure my fuel and oil hoses should be pressure > tested to? > > Paul Besing > RV-6A (197AB) Arizona > http://members.home.net/rv8er > Finish Kit > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Zander" <dzan(at)pacifier.com>
Subject: Panel-Planner
Date: Jan 06, 2000
STEVE DAVIS & Listers Iused PP 2.6 and sent Steve my PP panel via e-mail, I corrected the first 1/8th inch plexi glass and sent it back, made minor changes on the second and went to press. I'm very happy with the results. Steve did an excellent job and it looks great. The printing via CAD on the back side of 1/16th inch painted overlay then filling the area with black paint provided excellent contrast to a light gray panel. Thanks STEVE. Dick Zander RV=6A N747RZ Panel to the Spinner ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Jet Glo
Hi, Does anyone know where I can get in contact with the manufacturer of Jetglo? Thanks, Glenn Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Panel Planner warning!
Date: Jan 06, 2000
I still have my copy of Panel Planner for sale. $75 and you get the manual, too. Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont My panel is already planned, so I don't need it anymore -----Original Message----- Mike, I found Panel Planner to be a very valuable tool for visualizing various iterations of the panel on my RV-6. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Subject: Re: N number story N6R (kinda long)
Date: Jan 06, 2000
> >With the recent thread on N numbers I thought some people might be >interested to hear how I got my number, N6R. > With a number as short as N6R this is probably not an issue but there is a drawback of 3 digit numbers that I would like to point out. While working for the FAA I found out that many people abbreviate their numbers to 3 digits when they should not, for instance on the initial call to an FAA facility. This forces the FAA to then verify that the complete number is being used. So, if you have a 3 digit number either get used to putting the N on the front or having to verify many times that that is indeed your whole number. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP (Still would have gotten my amateur radio call N5LP if I could have) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: Stall Warning
I had a few flights in the Red one with Mike. The stall break was very pronounced with little warning other then you knew that's what you were going to do sonner or later. I am waiting for weather to fly my -6, so I no comparison yet among other RVs. A friend just finished an -8A I will see what he found. The -8/A is my interest at the moment. Have a good day! Denny, RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Subject: Re: Panel Planner warning!
Date: Jan 06, 2000
> >Listers > >fit perfect as a matter of fact alot were not even close. So if Vans can't >get it perfect .....what makes us think Panel Planner has to be. > I haven't seen anyone mention what I did. Using Vans's TERRIBLE drawings I drew my panel in a draw program, on a Mac. Probably would even work on a Windows machine. It was very accurate and had all the behind the panel obstructions the RV-6 tip-up has (important!). It was accurate because I used all the stations directly from the drawings. For the radios and instruments I got pictures from the internet and scaled them accurately. The pictures were all objects in the draw program so I could move them freely about. I made many different panels and printed them out full size. The whole process was easy and accurate and just about free. To cut the panel, I measured from my final print out. I am real happy with the final results. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
(Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id for" ; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 08:26:32.-0500(at)matronics.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re:Plans (Long)
Just a thought, I have the extreme fortune of having Rich Jankowsi's building photos. He took two shots of each part on the plane I believe. I could just about build this thing off these photos. A pic says a million words. Along these lines, why not compile a photo list on a web page lile Hovan's? Make it a data base of things to be warry for, tips, and critical photos. The difference between building today and four years ago is the digital camera. Use it. I have to admit, I'm confused as to the exasperation of the RV-8 quickbuilders. The regular -8 has a beautiful manual and plans. As a six builder I'm jealous. If its that bad then you guys are in a bad way, cause it don't get any better than what you have. No where will you find a more complete, better manufactured metal airplane kit; no where! Why don't I ever hear any -4 builders bitching? No videos, no Justice instructions. Lot of them flying though. Maybe they realize that what I have is what I've got. Make it work. This is coming from a guy that has replaced more parts than I would ever admit. I know too well what your beef is. Deal with it and build. Eric Henson Eternal Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Subject: Re: RV-8 Tail Buffet
Date: Jan 06, 2000
> >> >"when we did some stalls that his -8 has a very pronounced >shudder/buffet prior to stall....Question for those of you who've done >stalls in the -8/8A series, does your experience agree with this?" > >The RV8 that I was lucky enough to fly a few times had a VERY pronounced >tail buffet as well. It was completely resolved by a body strake at the >leading edge/fuselage intersection. Let me get this straight? There was a nice aerodynamic stall warning and this guy found out a way to get rid of it? Do you think he could figure out a way to GIVE my 6 a stall warning? Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Some builders succeed and some fail.. was : Plans and Manual
>I had no problems with the plans Thanks for this input, Bill, now we all know more about *YOU*. I think I can speak for most of us critics and say that we think very highly of Richard Van Grunsven, his staff, his company and most of all his fabulous designs. I think we also believe that improvement is possible just as Van improved the Stits Playboy. Now something about me. I graduated in Industrial Engineering. The mechancal engineer does drawings, sketches, documents or whatever to tell us what the product looks like. The industrial engineer tells us how to build it. Take, for example, the sliding canopy. The IE has not had anything to do with it. How does the builder match the canopy to the frame (nail the jelly to the tree)? What to do if the frame is wider than the fuse? How to make the points fit into the nylon blocks? I've built two houses and rebuilt over 200 engines but none of this modest experience prepared me for the canopy. Hal Kempthorne - SJC RV6a N7HK at SCK Hangar K3 Debonair N6134V for sale ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fesenbek, Gary" <fesenbek(at)marykay.com>
Subject: Panel Layout
Date: Jan 06, 2000
I did not use the panel planner software so I can't comment on that but I did lay out my own panel and wiring. The method I used was recommended to me by the very knowledgeable Ken Scott from Vans. He said to purchase a sheet or two of 1/8" Formica from the building material store. Rough cut the panel out of Formica and then file to good fit in the aircraft. Next, mark the location of things that will interfere with the back of the panel. I have a slider so there are a few things but nothing like the flip-up. Once you have a good template make a few copies. Next start doing the layout and cutting the holes. Install the Formica panel in the airplane and install the critical instruments one at a time to insure proper clearance. Even though I thought I avoided all interference, I did have a couple of problems that forced some rethinking of the panel. My panel was also harder because I have two removable sub sections very similar to the Young Eagles panel. If you find a problem just pick up one of your spare Formica panels. What is neat is that you can sit in the airplane and look at what the layout will be like with a few of the actual instruments in the panel before you cut any aluminum. I was not able to install all my instruments because in an IFR bird the gyros are pretty heavy for installation on an 1/8" Formica panel. One benefit of this is that some instruments that I purchased had holes that were not exactly aligned with the standard instrument drill guide. It was good to catch this before working on the real panel. Once I got to the real panel it made it much easier. Of course this was a whole lot of extra work and some might not want to go through this much trouble. Just wanted to pass it on.... Gary Fesenbek N152 RV6A .5 hrs Dallas, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BumFlyer(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Jet Glo Adventures (Real Long)
In a message dated 1/5/0 20:00:38, akroguy(at)hotmail.com writes: << Who ever ends up painting it, they are going to get a pre-paint-purchase inspection by me...without advanced warning. I'll just show up one day and take a look at what they're working on, the care taken or not taken, etc. >> I made several trips to Akron, which is a long down wind from my field (FTG). I was impressed with every paint job I saw in progress. BTW, you can be sure there will always be a plane in there being painted! Randy Hayes, the ariport manager will lend you his van to go to town and get a plate of fired chicken. Come on by FTG and look at my 2 1/2 year old 500 hrs of rough use paint job and we will go over in formation for your no notice. I'm on the way. $1.79 per gal at FTG D Walsh ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lewis, Timothy H., , SAF/AQII" <TimothyH.Lewis(at)pentagon.af.mil>
Subject: Re: Stall warning.
Date: Jan 06, 2000
> More info please on your stall warning indicator - make, model, cost, > retailer, installation, and etc. http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a and click on the "Stall Warning" link. I found I needed to move mine down another 3/8" or so. Tim Lewis RV-6A N47TD Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
(Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id for" ; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 10:33:07.-0500(at)matronics.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Elongated Spinner
I have seen a couple of RV's with a longer, more pointed spinner. It was not flat sided like a C-172 but were still slightly concave. In neither case could I find the owner to ask. Does anyone have any idea on this. I'd have to guess it was 1.5" longer and just came to a sharper point. Made the plane look a foot longer. Also, is the diameter of the spinner plate comperable with any other aircrafts plate dimension? Just wondering where to start looking. Eric Henson Dreaming of parts that don't start with F- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: Min. edge dist question
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Can someone tell me what the min edge distance would be for, say, an AN3 bolt? Would it be similar to the edge distances for rivits? I think I screwed up in drilling the pilot holes for the bolt holes on the top longeron where it attaches to the firewall weldment on my RV-4. They look a little too close to the edge of the leg of the angle on the longeron. This only happened on two of them. I took my glasses off and my astigmatism "helped" me drill the holes other than where I wanted them. If I have made them too close and decide to drill another couple of holes will the existing pilot holes weaken the structure any or merely be "lightening holes?" I don't have web access right now so I can't search the archives. -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE Network Administrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Zaloom" <czaloom(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Speed to Horsepower Chart
Date: Jan 06, 2000
There's a good one in the RV sales brochure (info pack) -- if you still have it. ----- Original Message ----- From: bramsec <bramsec(at)idirect.com> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 1:42 AM Subject: RV-List: Speed to Horsepower Chart > > Does anyone have a chart/table giving required horsepower for specifice > speed for an RV6 > > Regards Peter (C-GFLG Toronto) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HillJW(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Stall Warning
Mark: I was surprised that my 8a does not show much buffet at all prior to stalling. I have about 28 hours on it and have done quite a few stalls. I had taken a demo ride in the factory 8 at Osh Kosh 3 years ago, and it did seem to have a good buffet just above stall speed. That is why I expected mine to do the same. But it does not. hilljw(at)aol.com Jimmy 8a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert F. Murillo" <bertrv(at)intellistar.net>
Subject: Re: Van's Profit (long)
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Gary: You have the right to your opinion, and I have mine ; if you did not like my posting,that is too bad. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Some builders succeed and some fail.. was : Plans and
Manual Perfect, Hal and thanks for what is hopefully the summation if not and end to this on going feud amongst us RV Fanatics. Garry, currently in love with RV6 and getting near the end, I sure hope so I can't wait to fly this thing. Hal Kempthorne wrote: > > > >I had no problems with the plans > > Thanks for this input, Bill, now we all know more about *YOU*. > > I think I can speak for most of us critics and say that we think very > highly of Richard Van Grunsven, his staff, his company and most of all his > fabulous designs. I think we also believe that improvement is possible > just as Van improved the Stits Playboy. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bryan E. Files" <BFiles(at)corecom.net>
Subject: Re: Min. edge dist question
Date: Jan 06, 2000
The only requirement for bolts that I know of is that bolts should provide full bearing surface for the bolt head and nut. **** Bryan E. Files **** Ever Fly Maintenance Palmer, Alaska A&P, IA, FAA Safety Counselor mailto:BFiles(at)corecom.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Van Artsdalen, Scott <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 6:42 AM Subject: RV-List: Min. edge dist question > > Can someone tell me what the min edge distance would be for, say, an AN3 > bolt? Would it be similar to the edge distances for rivits? I think I > screwed up in drilling the pilot holes for the bolt holes on the top > longeron where it attaches to the firewall weldment on my RV-4. They look a > little too close to the edge of the leg of the angle on the longeron. This > only happened on two of them. I took my glasses off and my astigmatism > "helped" me drill the holes other than where I wanted them. > > If I have made them too close and decide to drill another couple of holes > will the existing pilot holes weaken the structure any or merely be > "lightening holes?" > > I don't have web access right now so I can't search the archives. > > > -- > Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE > Network Administrator > Union Safe Deposit Bank > 209-946-5116 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Van's Profit (long)
Bert, did you even read my posts, I can't imagine you could have and still sent this. Stop wasting peoples time on the list with this (for lack of a better word) crap. Contact me off list if you have any other personal issues you just have to vent. "Bert F. Murillo" wrote: > > Gary: > > You have the right to your opinion, and I have mine ; if you did not > like my posting,that is too bad. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RodWoodard(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Elongated Spinner
The RV-3 I just sold had a longer spinner on it. It was a polished aluminum job from Aircraft Spruce. Looked pretty cool, IMHO. The part number as of 1995 when it was installed was "BN-3." Rod Woodard In a message dated 1/6/00 9:13:11 AM Mountain Standard Time, rv-list(at)matronics.com writes: > I have seen a couple of RV's with a longer, more pointed spinner. It was not > flat sided like a C-172 but were still slightly concave. In neither case > could I > find the owner to ask. Does anyone have any idea on this. I'd have to guess > it > was 1.5" longer and just came to a sharper point. Made the plane look a foot > longer. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 Tail Buffet
Date: Jan 06, 2000
>From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Tail Buffet >Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 06:37:35 -0700 > > > > > >> > >"when we did some stalls that his -8 has a very pronounced > >shudder/buffet prior to stall....Question for those of you who've done > >stalls in the -8/8A series, does your experience agree with this?" > > > >The RV8 that I was lucky enough to fly a few times had a VERY pronounced > >tail buffet as well. It was completely resolved by a body strake at the > >leading edge/fuselage intersection. > >Let me get this straight? There was a nice aerodynamic stall warning and >this guy found out a way to get rid of it? Do you think he could figure >out >a way to GIVE my 6 a stall warning? > >Larry Pardue >Carlsbad, NM > >RV-6 N441LP Larry, EXACTLY my same thought pardner. I like the shudder and shake back there when the wing is going to quit flying. Strakes on an RV? Not my airplane. Nope. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fesenbek, Gary" <fesenbek(at)marykay.com>
Subject: N152 Flying!!
Date: Jan 06, 2000
After 2 years of hard work(and this is a quickbuild), invention of 72 new airplane building cuss words, two small fires in the workshop and a move between two states (Virginia and Texas), I finally completed and flew my RV6A. Takeoff was a handful. It was even greater performance than I first imagined. I had flown in a 6A before but I guess it is a little different when you take off by yourself for the first time with the temps in the high thirties. I took it up to 140 knots at 2000' and then slowed to do some practice approaches at altitude. I don't mind saying that I was quite apprehensive about landing after seeing how sensitive it was on takeoff. I have flown in the Air Force so I just had to switch modes from Cessna 172M to F15. Landing was uneventful. I had about 8000' feet and did not try to set it on the first brick. I was quite pleased. This makes the past two years of giving up weekends and all the money worth it. Oh well, I guess my 15 minutes of fame is over now. Gary Fesenbek RV6A Dallas, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)micron.net>
Subject: Re: N number story N6R (kinda long)
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Great post Randal. It's amazing how doors open with an RV. I was at an (un-named to protect the friendly) airport in Southern California a while back and both of the FBO's there aspire to serve the diesel-burning corporate stuff. I had to park for a week, so I bit the bullet knowing I was going to have to pay not only tie-down fees, but also a "handling fee" and an outrageous fuel price. When I came in to leave, the guy behind the counter asked which plane was mine and when I told him, his eyes lit up and we chatted about the RV he was building. He waived the handling fee, and cut the minimum fuel amount in half because "RV's don't use that much fuel". BTW, I don't know if having a 2 digit number is as bad as 3, but I flew an airplane for a while that had a tail number something like N3KA. A typical round of radio use went something like this: Me: "Reno tower, Skylane 3 Kilo Alpha, ..................................." Tower: "Skylane 3 Kilo Alpha, approved, say full call sign" Me: "Roger, Skylane NOVEMBER 3 Kilo Alpha" The novelty wore off rather quickly... Ed Bundy >With the recent thread on N numbers I thought some people might be >interested to hear how I got my number, N6R. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-8 Tail Buffet
But why would you want to "resolve" the buffet? To me this is a very desireable characteristic of the -8/8A which adds a margin of safety by providing an unmistakeable indication of impending stall. I'll be leaving my -8A "unfixed". --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, IA -8A wings From: Mark Todd <motodd(at)pol.net> Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Tail Buffet > "when we did some stalls that his -8 has a very pronounced shudder/buffet prior to stall....Question for those of you who've done stalls in the -8/8A series, does your experience agree with this?" The RV8 that I was lucky enough to fly a few times had a VERY pronounced tail buffet as well. It was completely resolved by a body strake at the leading edge/fuselage intersection. Paul Robertson (Aeronautical Testing Services-Arlington WA pr(at)aerotestsvc.com) overheard our lunchtime discussion of the problem, strolled out to the ramp, walked around the plane for a minute, and nonchalantly sketched the strake out on a paper napkin for us. The strake was about seven inches long and three inches wide. Mid chord of the strake was centered over the leading edge of the wing, positioned about 1 and 3/4 inches above the wing surface, as I recall. After testing the idea with a strake bent from some scrap .025" aluminum, a permanent strake was purchased from Paul as it was very nicely made, part of some twin engined plane's STC'd STOL kit they sell. That RV8 was purchased by someone from Texas. The original owner/builder is travelling for the next three months, so I won't be able to get any more info from him. Mark RV4 KAWO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: Jet Glo
Date: Jan 06, 2000
----- > > Does anyone know where I can get in contact with the manufacturer of Jetglo? > > Thanks, > Glenn Gordon Jet Glo had previously been manufactured by Pratt and Lambert. I thought I had read that Sherwin Williams had bought Pratt and Lambert. So you might check with them. I do know Jet Glo is one of the premier polyurethanes and used on corporate aircraft and many of the big paint shops. Here in Minneapolis, Wipaire uses Jet Glo on all of their floats and also in their aircraft restoration shops. Doug Weiler Hudson, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "InfoAv Corp - Jeremy Benedict" <list(at)infoav.com>
Subject: Re: Speed to Horsepower Chart
Date: Jan 06, 2000
--> RV-List message really posted by: Jeremy Benedict If you have web access, this information is available on Van's web site. Listed are top speed, 75% cruise, 55% cruise for 150, 160, and 180 hp. Numbers for both solo and gross weights. Page is at: http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-6per.htm Hope this helps, Jeremy jeremy(at)infoav.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Zaloom <czaloom(at)worldnet.att.net> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 7:44 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Speed to Horsepower Chart > > There's a good one in the RV sales brochure (info pack) -- if you still have > it. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bramsec <bramsec(at)idirect.com> > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 1:42 AM > Subject: RV-List: Speed to Horsepower Chart > > > > > > Does anyone have a chart/table giving required horsepower for specifice > > speed for an RV6 > > > > Regards Peter (C-GFLG Toronto) > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: N152 Flying!!
Oh well, I guess >my 15 minutes of fame is over now. > >Gary Fesenbek >RV6A >Dallas, TX Alright Gary! It is great to hear of success! I am still waiting for a reasonable ceiling to do mine! Have fun with it! Have a good day! Denny, RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: A20driver(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Elongated Spinner
Rob: Would like to see the photos...My 3 has a 3 bladed Performance prop and I haven't nailed on a spinner yet...A polished elongated one may be just the thing...Jim Brown, 3(160),NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Deffner" <deffner(at)glade.net>
Subject: Re: N152 Flying!!
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Gary, CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!! Good to hear about you guys getting these RV's in the air, despite the obstacles in life. Im 100 miles south of you, and getting ready to start my building process. David Deffner F1 Rocket N212TR Parts on the way ---------- > From: Fesenbek, Gary <fesenbek(at)marykay.com> > To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com' > Subject: RV-List: N152 Flying!! > Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 11:07 AM > > > After 2 years of hard work(and this is a quickbuild), invention of 72 new > airplane building cuss words, two small fires in the workshop and a move > between two states (Virginia and Texas), I finally completed and flew my > RV6A. Takeoff was a handful. It was even greater performance than I first > imagined. I had flown in a 6A before but I guess it is a little different > when you take off by yourself for the first time with the temps in the high > thirties. I took it up to 140 knots at 2000' and then slowed to do some > practice approaches at altitude. I don't mind saying that I was quite > apprehensive about landing after seeing how sensitive it was on takeoff. I > have flown in the Air Force so I just had to switch modes from Cessna 172M > to F15. Landing was uneventful. I had about 8000' feet and did not try to > set it on the first brick. I was quite pleased. This makes the past two > years of giving up weekends and all the money worth it. Oh well, I guess > my 15 minutes of fame is over now. > > Gary Fesenbek > RV6A > Dallas, TX > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bbrut55(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: N152 Flying!!
Gary, Congratulations on your first flight in your 6A. Keep the list informed of your figures. Glad to here another TEXAS RV is in the air. Bill Bruton RV-8 wings BC Squadron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)juno.com
Subject: Panel Layout & water jet cutting
Date: Jan 06, 2000
writes: >don, what was the turnaround time for your panel?? My earlier post: >>Next step was to make a life-size cardboard dash template, and then >play "paper dolls" until we like the arrangement. Lightly tape the >instruments in place, then install the entire dash in the fuselage & sit in it & >make airplane noises. I used Reamit Tech Co. to water cut the panel for $30.00 They have a web at Chuck Rearic .or. Kevin wright 817-461-8048 FAX = 8049 Arlington, Tx Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com ****************************************************************************** GV & Steve: This address needs to be in the yeller pages. I cut & pasted on a full size board until I got the holes where I wanted them. Chuck then took my not to scale scetch & drew it in CAD. He faxed it back & I corrected it & faxed it back. I drove the panel over cause he is local, I think it was done it 2 days. The precision was out standing. The only draw back is freezing the mold. I had the 4 large & 10 small holes cut & did not have him cut the radio area or the switches. I am still designing on those. WE discussed him cutting the screw holes, but the problem I have found is nothing seems to be STANDARD . So I have drilled each hole to the exact instrument. I used 5/8 th spacing on the large ones & turned out I needed more around the Century I auto pilot & slaved DG. The cases behind the panel are larger than I foresaw. My very rough drawing was based on center & bottom of the panel for him to set up on. I gave him + & - up and left & right of center line. The trouble with any mechanical means of cutting requires a good clamping force. His machine has two opposite jet heads working against each other so I done think his clamping force is much of a problem. There was no filing to the holes , I just buffed them with the scotch brite wheel . He came by later & took pictures of my panel for his home page, but I haven't seen it. IF I could ever learn that Internet thing , I could go build an airplane. Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com ****************************************************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: N152 Flying!!
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Gary, CONGRATULATIONS !!! & WELL DONE !!! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A (working on canopy) Niantic, CT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: greg(at)controlvision.com (Greg Yotz)
Subject: Re: Electronic Flight Computers
Date: Jan 06, 2000
I started to tell you in the original message about a product the company I work for has just started to deliver. I didn't want to 'commercialize' on the list but after I thought about it, I decided that it was on topic and someone else brought it up so it wouldn't hurt to mention it. The reason we developed this product was because we couldn't find a good program to do what we wanted.(Street and roads type software adapted to airports didn't cut it.) The moving map software works on Windows CE machines not Palm Pilots. This is a much less expensive way to get the color moving map technology that several GPS companies have made. It also has some features they don't. Anyway, take a look at the web site. The product is called 'Anywhere Pilot'. We're signing up Beta testers now at a discount rate. Anywhere Pilot Color Moving Map GPS - <http://www.controlvision.com> Greg Yotz ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: sliding canopy RV4
Date: Jan 06, 2000
hi, does anybody know where I can contact John Haehn about a sliding canopy for the RV4? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard White" <chiefs(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Van's Profit (long)
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Hey! Everybody has a right to their own opinion. I have a delete key on my computer. Dick White RV-8QB systems Newport, OR DNA ----- Original Message ----- From: Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 8:30 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's Profit (long) > > Bert, did you even read my posts, I can't imagine you could have and still > sent this. Stop wasting peoples time on the list with this (for lack of a > better word) crap. Contact me off list if you have any other personal issues > you just have to vent. > > "Bert F. Murillo" wrote: > > > > > Gary: > > > > You have the right to your opinion, and I have mine ; if you did not > > like my posting,that is too bad. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Hurlbut" <shurlbut(at)island.net>
Subject: San Diego
Date: Jan 06, 2000
I'm sure there's an RV in the San Diego area. I'm planning to visit the area from Jan 26 - Feb 4. I'm planning on building an RV-6A and would be as happy as a pig in %$ # to "see" a completed one in the area. I wouldn't mind seeing San Diego from the air either. Please let me know. Steve Hurlbut Comox, BC, Canada shurlbut(at)island.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: N152 Flying!!
Congrats Gary, You have now joined the hallowed halls of the blessed. Good for you. Am I jealous? You bet. Keep us informed. Good Luck. Garry LeGare, RV6 Joining you soon, hopefully. "Fesenbek, Gary" wrote: > > After 2 years of hard work(and this is a quickbuild), invention of 72 new > airplane building cuss words, two small fires in the workshop and a move > between two states (Virginia and Texas), I finally completed and flew my > RV6A. Takeoff was a handful. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: VP4SkyDoc(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: San Diego
There is an EAA meeting every saturday am at Brown Field on the south side of San Diego. I went to a meeting and met Gene who was an ex military fighter pilot and is working on his 3rd RV (actually, he lost his medical and dosent own it.. he just builds it, for fun). It is a very nice 6A with a 200hp IO360 that is nearing completion (it may even be flying by now). Gene let me sit in it and make airplane noises. There are also several other RV in the area. Dave Leonard 6QB Mazda 13B ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: n3773 <n3773(at)mciworld.com>
Subject: airtech wingtip light assemblies
I originally went the cheap route and bought the $39 Vans lens kit. I never was able to get them to fit very well. The curves didn't match the wingtips. So I forked out the $149 for the Airtechs. I installed the fiberglass portion with nutplates and the entire wingtip with pop rivets. The Airtech leaves plenty of room to reach in with your entire arm. I installed strobes easily after the Airtechs were on. Note that strobes are not recommended and require some cooling vents. I share a hangar with another -6A which gives us about 12" extra to maneuver in. I cracked a lens on the hangar door. I have not been able to locate Airtech in order to buy just a replacement lens. Van's does not have a working phone number for them, and directory assistance has dozens of Airtech's in CA. If someone has a current number (or a right wing lens) please e-mail off-list please. Kevin -6A portland or ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: How to connect a Narco AT-150 to a Narco AR-850
Steve I sent the Manuel out by FedEx letter express today. You should receive it on Saturday. Good luck wireing it up. I think Aircraft Spruce dropped the ball on supplying you with one. I purchased mine from Gulf Coast Avionics and it came with the manuels in side the box. I suspect someone at Aircraft Spruce removed the manuels before it was sold. Earl, RV4 EARL FORTNER wrote: > > > Steve I have the installation/operation manual for the AR850 and AT150. > It is right much to fax but if you will give me you mailing address > I will photocopy and send to you. If you just want a specific diagram > will be happy to fax. > > Earl RV4 still building > > "Stephen J. Soule" wrote: > > > > > > I bought a Narco AT-150 transponder and a Narco AR-850 encoder from Aircraft > > Spruce. I know, I know. This is what I get for being so profligate, but > > the expensive little devices came without instructions for wiring the two of > > them together. There is a crudely photocopied installation manual that > > explains how to wire the transponder to the aircraft power supply system, > > but it doesn't mention how you hook it up to the encoder. There were no > > instructions at all in the encoder box. I have called Aircraft Spruce, but > > they say that Narco isn't returning their calls. I called the Narco number > > 800 223-3636, but all I get is a recording and no call-back. > > > > Do any of you Listers possess the secret instructions for wiring the AR-850 > > to the AT-150? > > > > Steve Soule > > Waiting in Huntington, Vermont > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bbrut55(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: airtech wingtip light assemblies
Kevin, Your in luck, Cascade Yachts makes your lens in PORTLAND, OR, the phone number is 503-287-5794. They don't give a price for the lens but I am sure they will be glad to take your money. Bill Bruton Rv-8 Wing tips and nav lites ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Van's Plans
Subj: RV-List: VAN has the BEST Plans and Manual Date: 1/5/00 1:00:58 PM Pacific Standard Time From: rv6flier(at)yahoo.com (Gary A. Sobek) "Gary A. Sobek" wrote: SNIP>>I have not seen any amateur built aircraft plans or manuals that are better than what we get with the RV. I have seen EZ, Cozy, Dragonfly, Thorpe, Mustang II, KR.<<<>>>Thanks VAN for doing such a GREAT job. Keep up the good work.SNIP. Gary: I for one agree 100% with your comments. Apparently a lot of people have overlooked the "learning" aspect of this process. It sometimes ain't easy, but you sure feel good when you finally get it right, and then go on to the next challenge. Harry Crosby RV-6 fuselage right side up, finally! Gary: ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KAKlewin(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: RV-6/8 Emp. & King Videos 4 Sale
Well the tail kit is done....with a GREAT deal of help from George and Becky....my wife chides me for watching too much "George" in the evenings...but now as I sit back and wait for the quickbuild I find myself cleaning house to make some room....so if anyone is interested in second hand videos I will part with my Prepunched Empennage Videos for 20 bucks to the first respondant...(saving up for the systems videos...). I cant say enough about how these videos supplement the builders manual....a great tool. While Im on the video selling spree...I also have some King Videos for sale: King Multi-Engine Flying Videos (2 tapes, new $69): 40 bucks...and: Flying the Citation/IFR with confidence/and Maneuvers for the Commercial CFI (all list for $29) sell for $18each....and also Sportys Multi-Engine flying (list $25) sell for 15 bucks.....well maybe that will make some room and be enough to buy some more small parts......thanks visiting my closet sale......happy building. Kurt, OKC, OK Graduate or the Orndorff School of RV Aeronautics (May 1999) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <skydiven(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Van's Plans -LET IT DROP
Date: Jan 06, 2000
For GODS SAKE, can we PLEASE agree to let this drop? There are those who feel the plans could be improved without much effort (especially on the older models) and those who feel they are fine the way they are. OK THEN...no more need for further 'I agree completely' comments or 'you're not fully thinking this through' comments. Please, please before I rip my hair out or decide the Long Ez's short field performance isn't so bad afterall.......PLEASE, just let it go. Everyone agrees that Van's aircraft are the best bang for the buck or they would not own one...really. Please, don't even feel like you need to say you agree with me here.....just let the Vans plans thread/rope/cable drop. Don't get me wrong, this discussion has brought out a LOT of good comments, and I think that type of thing is very healthy for the Van's family. But the debate has run its course and now it's mostly bickering and people calling each other lazy. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Elrod3794(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Van's Plans -LET IT DROP
amen to LET IT DROP MIKE ELROD RV8A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ferdfly(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: VAN has the BEST Plans and Manual
In a message dated 1/5/00 1:00:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, rv6flier(at)yahoo.com writes: << Flame me on or off the list. I built mine without supplemental manuals and am flying. Put you mind to it, stop whining, and you can do it also. If I can do it, you should be able to do it. Thanks VAN for doing such a GREAT job. Keep up the good work. >> Hear Hear, I also agree Fred LaForge RV-4 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Altitude encoder info to GPS
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Why do (some) GPS systems take altitude data from the encoders? Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: HS incidence once again.
I remember seeing comments recently about raising the front spar of the HS. Please help with two questions: 1. What do you use as a shim? I would only need 1/16" underneath the front spar. 2. Doing this would put a moment on the rear spar in the current configuration. What do you do about the rear spar attachment? Thanks, N985VU RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Van's Plans -LET IT DROP
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Ditto and Amen. Rob Reece RV-3 SN45 (with 20 page text builders manual, plans with no part numbers, and lots of learning!) ;-) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Shook > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 7:27 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Re: Van's Plans -LET IT DROP > > > For GODS SAKE, can we PLEASE agree to let this drop? There are those who ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: Keith Hughes <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: N number story N6R
Hey Pat!!! If you guys are "hording" N6TC, I'd like to buy it from you!!! Keith Hughes RV-6 Wings Parker, CO Randall Henderson wrote: > And here's the kicker -- the "Him:" is none other than Pat Hatch, a regular > contributor to the RV-List! Thanks again Pat! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: Keith Hughes <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Stupid question
I can't believe I'm about to ask such a silly question... I just got some "Boelube" and have been trying to incorporate it into my work. How the hell do you use this stuff. Tonight I tried to use some on a countersink (#30), and it just flakes off. Is enough being applied to the cutting surface to do the job, or is it just too damn cold in the shop? And if you're going to write in and say that I shouldn't be around airplanes, you can save it... My first Instructor Pilot in the Air Force told me that many years ago. Thanks, Keith Hughes RV-6 Wings Parker, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: "dgmurray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Stupid question
> >I just got some "Boelube" and have been trying to incorporate it into my work. >How the hell do you use this stuff. Tonight I tried to use some on a >countersink (#30), and it just flakes off. Is enough being applied to >the cutting surface to do the job, or is it just too damn cold in the shop? >Thanks, > >Keith Hughes >RV-6 Wings >Parker, CO Keith - Yes, it does flake off a bit. Just get a little on the cutter and start working. The Boelube sort of melts and then lubricates as you drill or countersink. You can even put a flake or two near the cutting tool to enhance the cutting. Later you will want to scrape a little Boelube onto the threads of the screws that will be used with nut plates. It is amazing how easy the Boelube makes the screws turn in. Have fun building. It gets better each day. Doug Murray RV-6 Southern Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Altitude encoder info to GPS
Date: Jan 06, 2000
So that your GPS and Reported altitude are the same. Because of the potential errors each way, I would think it would be helpful for your instruments to agree. Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://members.home.net/rv8er Finish Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 9:01 PM Subject: RV-List: Altitude encoder info to GPS > > Why do (some) GPS systems take altitude data from the encoders? > > Alex Peterson > Maple Grove, MN > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: sliding canopy RV4
In a message dated 1/6/00 1:51:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com writes: << does anybody know where I can contact John Haehn about a sliding canopy for the RV4? >> His last known phone number is in the Yeller Pages. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: HS incidence once again.
In a message dated 1/6/00 9:20:31 PM Pacific Standard Time, wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net writes: << I remember seeing comments recently about raising the front spar of the HS. Please help with two questions: 1. What do you use as a shim? I would only need 1/16" underneath the front spar.>> 2024-T3 Aluminum of the required thickness. << 2. Doing this would put a moment on the rear spar in the current configuration. What do you do about the rear spar attachment? >> Nothing. IMO there is adequate flexibility built into the HS rear spar attachment to allow for moderate repositioning of the front spar. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: Mark Todd <motodd(at)pol.net>
Subject: Re: RV-8 Tail Buffet
menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com wrote: > > > But why would you want to "resolve" the buffet? To me this is a very desireable > characteristic of the -8/8A which adds a margin of safety by providing an > unmistakeable indication of impending stall. I'll be leaving my -8A "unfixed". > I should have been more precise in my previous post. The buffet in this particular RV8 (prior to putting on the strake) was very impressive. Pilots with much more experience than me were impressed with it. The canopy would rattle and you could look over your shoulder and watch the horizontal stabilizer flexing up and down. It certainly was an effective warning if you want to avoid all stalls! With the strake, the buffet was a more polite nibble at the stick in the last three or four knots before the break. Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: N number story N6R
hi all just got my n-number today finally. it is N81GW of course the 8 is for the kit I am building the 1 is for the first letter of the alphabet hence 8a and my initials gw pretty cool huh? Glenn Williams 8a wings Ft. Worth, TX. --- Keith Hughes wrote: > > > Hey Pat!!! > > If you guys are "hording" N6TC, I'd like to buy it > from you!!! > > Keith Hughes > RV-6 Wings > Parker, CO > > Randall Henderson wrote: > > > And here's the kicker -- the "Him:" is none other > than Pat Hatch, a regular > > contributor to the RV-List! Thanks again Pat! > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2000
From: Frank and Dorothy <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Altitude encoder info to GPS
Alex Peterson wrote: > > > Why do (some) GPS systems take altitude data from the encoders? The altitude can be used as another 'point of reference' for calculating position (kind of like having your own personal satellite *directly* overhead all the time). This should give you slightly better position accuracy. Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stupid question
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Keith, As already mentioned, boelube is EXCELLENT for putting screws in nutplates for the first time. It doesn't have silicon which would mess up a paint job either. Upon final assembly, you will install screws in nutplates all day long. I just couldn't imagine the torture this would be without boelube. I also used it for drill bits in steel or thick aluminum. Didn't bother with holes in thin al. or c'sink cutters. Rick Caldwell RV-6 N136RC #24187 Airworthiness Ceft. recieved 1/3/00 First flight? >From: Keith Hughes <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Stupid question >Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 21:45:09 -0700 > > >I can't believe I'm about to ask such a silly question... > >I just got some "Boelube" and have been trying to incorporate it into my >work. >How the hell do you use this stuff. Tonight I tried to use some on a >countersink (#30), and it just flakes off. Is enough being applied to >the >cutting surface to do the job, or is it just too damn cold in the shop? > >And if you're going to write in and say that I shouldn't be around >airplanes, >you can save it... My first Instructor Pilot in the Air Force told me >that many >years ago. > >Thanks, > >Keith Hughes >RV-6 Wings >Parker, CO > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
(Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id for" ; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 08:55:23.-0500(at)matronics.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: New Engine Fuel Pressure
Hi, thought I would dig up last weeks fuel pressure thread. Last night I looked at my buddys new Lycoming 0360 that Santa brought. I noticed the engine test log and thought I would post the fuel psi from the test stand. RPM Psi 637 2.3 690 3.0 1197 3.3 1799 2.9 2340 1.7 2574 1.8 2682 2.2 2701 2.3 Pretty low at climb power. Guess that means its normal. Eric ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz)
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Altitude encoder info to GPS
A GPS can resolve altitude if enough sats are in view (4 min.) but the altitude is based on a perfect world (round earth) that doesn't really exist so GPS altitude may be off by quite a bit. Encoded altitude is input to an algorithm that plans out verticle navigation (VNAV) solutions (i.e. optimum descent profiles). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mike.nellis(at)mcd.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Rudder attachment
I've just finished the rudder and tried to fit it to the VS on my RV6 kit. How have other performed the initial fit in the past? The plans call for a 2.5" distance for the lower heim joint bolt between the VS rear spar and the Rudder forward spar and 2" for the top. Is the an initial depth the heim joint bolt should be screwed in that would get me in the ball park? I spent the better part of an hour fitting the bolts, removing them and refitting them before I could get things to fit properly. I haven't completed all the updates but the web site shows most of my progress so far. http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page/rudder.htm Mike Nellis RV-6 working on elevators http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Stupid question
Are you reffering to chatter when you are cutting with the C/S bit?? Besure your pilot hole is correct firstoff.....Second don't cut any F/G with your C/S cutter-F/G dulls the face of the cutter very fast. I use a little wax when I think of it as a lube but mostly I forget to lube before I cut.....I think your problem is practice..about one in 10 cuts I get chatter in my cut but & reeyeball the situation and do it again(freehand) and the chatter goes away. Be sure the metal isn't moving,bending or in any way moving......If you have ACS cutters throw them away or use them for F/G only. Use Avery or Cleavland cutters & a little practice and your are on your way. rv6tc(at)earthlink.net on 01/06/2000 11:45:09 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Stupid question I can't believe I'm about to ask such a silly question... I just got some "Boelube" and have been trying to incorporate it into my work. How the hell do you use this stuff. Tonight I tried to use some on a countersink (#30), and it just flakes off. Is enough being applied to the cutting surface to do the job, or is it just too damn cold in the shop? And if you're going to write in and say that I shouldn't be around airplanes, you can save it... My first Instructor Pilot in the Air Force told me that many years ago. Thanks, Keith Hughes RV-6 Wings Parker, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2000
From: ScottGesele <sgesele(at)usa.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder attachment
Mike, You should be able to set this relatively easily by doing a little math. For the lower rod end, the overall distance between the two spars is 2 1/2" (I'm taking this from your your post, my drawings are home). use the formula: A - B = C A = 2 1/2" (the overall distance) B = The distance from the center of the bolt hole on the VS lower brack to the VS rear spar. You get this dimention by adding all the things that are spacing this hole from the rear spar, such as the thickness of the plate and the distance from the bottom of the steel bracket to the bolt hole. C = the distance for the center of the bolt hole on the rod end to the front spar of the rudder. Perform the same process for the top rod end. For the center rod end, take your best guess (start with an average of the top and bottom) and then stretch a sting from the top rod end, through the center and then through the bottom. Remove the string and adjust the center accordingly. Hope this helps. Scott Gesele - N506RV - Flying >I've just finished the rudder and tried to fit it to the VS on my RV6 kit. How >have other performed the initial fit in the past? The plans call for a 2.5" >distance for the lower heim joint bolt between the VS rear spar and the Rudder >forward spar and 2" for the top. Is the an initial depth the heim joint bolt >should be screwed in that would get me in the ball park? I spent the better >part of an hour fitting the bolts, removing them and refitting them before I >could get things to fit properly. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bryan E. Files" <BFiles(at)corecom.net>
Subject: Re: New Engine Fuel Pressure
Date: Jan 07, 2000
That is pretty neat you can see where it comes off the idle circuit and then where the economizer starts to kick in at about 22600. Thanks for the post. **** Bryan E. Files **** Ever Fly Maintenance Palmer, Alaska A&P, IA, FAA Safety Counselor mailto:BFiles(at)corecom.net > Hi, thought I would dig up last weeks fuel pressure thread. Last night I looked > at my buddys new Lycoming 0360 that Santa brought. I noticed the engine test log > and thought I would post the fuel psi from the test stand. > > RPM Psi > 637 2.3 > 690 3.0 > 1197 3.3 > 1799 2.9 > 2340 1.7 > 2574 1.8 > 2682 2.2 > 2701 2.3 > > Pretty low at climb power. Guess that means its normal. > > Eric > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2000
From: Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: New Pictures
The new pics are great I love what you did with the oil door, did something similar myself, also thanks again for the tip about W.M., Dick is a real pleasure to work with I noticed that your fuel flow transducer is mounted with the wires horizontal. When I originally talked to Rom at RMI he told me to try and mount it with the wires up, and if I couldn't do that I should at least make sure that the outlet is higher than the inlet. He said this was to lessen the potential of trapping air. FWIW Sorry to hear about your canopy. I hardly slept for the week I was doing mine, ended up chickening out and building the frame out of carbon/epoxy and foam never had to drill a hole into the plexi. With the Fiberglass talents that I've seen on your site, you might think of doing the skirts in glass, sorry for the blasphemy. Good Luck Garry LeGare, RV6 Flying in the spring. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVBryan(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Check Six Newsletter
In a message dated 1/5/00 8:30:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, mddickens(at)mindspring.com writes: << How about a sample issue before we commit our dollars? Mark Dickens >> Here is an excerp from the first issue and is a very good reason why we all should be gathering as much info as possible. The amount of precision and detail that Mark goes into to describe procedures is incredible. This excerp is concerning wing incidence. _____________________ Background: The RV-4, which preceded the Rocket, calls for -degree positive incidence set into the main wing. Indeed, the fuselage spar carry-through is designed to allow this setting. In observing more than a few of these ships at air-shows, it seems that many builders take this dimension in a not so serious manner. If you observe the positioning of the trailing edge of the flap, it would appear that a few folks completely missed this page of the instructions! But, there is a bit more to the story... The height of the rear seat bulkhead has a great deal to do with how the flap fits to the bottom of the ship. If this bulkhead dimension is a bit too long, the wing will appear to have less incidence than required, when, in fact, the relative position of the belly is actually the problem. This would seem to be the biggest factor in the seemingly bad fit on most ships. There's still more to the story... I stated before that the RV-4 calls for -degree positive incidence. Well, it seems that the RV-6 (same wing area) calls for 1-degree positive incidence. The difference shows up at the flap trailing edge/fuselage junction, and at the belly skin/root rib attach, where things seem to come out a bit more even than with the RV4. The dimensional difference is about 0.3 inches at the rear spar (the RV6 is lower). If you were to apply this dimension to the RV4, you would have a smoother junction at the flap/fuselage. But, how would the ship fly with this different setting? Let's investigate that a bit... As we know, most design aspects in an airplane are compromises. The mission profile dictates which direction our compromises should take. Given that we are operating normally aspirated engines in our ships, our operating altitudes are usually below 12,000' MSL. The rapid climb rate of the Rocket allows us to operate in the upper regions (cooler, smoother air) of this altitude range. At these higher altitudes, the air is thinner, giving us two factors to deal with: less horsepower (providing less indicated airspeed), and accordingly, a slightly higher angle of attack is necessary, due to the lower indicated airspeed. The ship will need to pitch slightly up at this lower airspeed, unless the wing is set up for this speed. If you set your wing incidence for a lower altitude (less incidence), and accept the pitch up at higher altitudes (remember that your thrust line will also be affected by the pitch up, introducing a resultant vector loss to the available thrust), the engine would not point in the direction of the ship's movement. Designing in a bit more positive incidence will eliminate this thrust loss at higher altitudes. We have elected to compromise in this direction, giving us higher altitude performance. Thus, the F-1 wing incidence is set at -degree positive incidence. How to set the proper incidence: The ship must be set up level, both front to back and side to side to effectively measure the wing incidence and sweep. After installing your wings using a few regular AN6 and AN3 bolts, level the ship in the two directions. Have a couple of clamps ready to lock the rear spar attach fitting when you have the wing positioned correctly. Using a 30" level (be sure to use this same level, laying with the same side down, to level the ship), lay the front edge of the level on the line of rivets attaching the main skin to the main spar. Clamp a device to the level so that you can obtain a level reading with a space of 2.95" between the other end of the level and the line of rivets attaching the main skin to the rear spar. Check both the root end and the tip end of the wing. It may be necessary to achieve a balance between these two readings, if different. Clamp the rear spar attach fitting when you are satisfied that the wing setting is correct. You now have the correct angel of incidence set into your ship. But are they square? There is another procedure to accomplish before drilling the attach hole in the rear spar: Drop four plumb lines from the wings at four different spots: using the main skin / leading edge skin joint as a reference, drop a plumb line from this joint line at the root and tip of each wing. Sight across these four lines from tip to tip to see if you have any sweep (either forward or aft). At the same time, monitor the measurement from the tail-wheel pivot bolt to the main skin / leading edge skin joint at the tip of each wing. This measurement should be within 1/16" of equal on each side. When you have finished adjusting the clamps at the root of the wing so that all four string lines are in a straight line, the measurement from the tail-wheel pivot bolt to the tip of the wing should be the same on each wing. In addition, the level should show a level reading with the proper spacing (2.95") from the rear spar. Having accomplished this procedure, you can be assured that your wings will be correctly positioned. Have an assistant help you position the drill correctly (level), and drill the rear spar attach with a #30 drill bit. A 12" drill bit works well for this procedure. Cleco or pin this fitting, and check the plumb lines, level, and measurements again. If nothing has slipped, proceed to drill the attachment hole with a #12 drill bit, then to a 1/4" hole, and finally to a 5/16" hole. Insert the proper fastener, and proceed with fitting and drilling the fuel tank mount angle. Fabricate the fuel and vent lines after all mounts are in place. These procedures have helped me align many sets of wings in the past with much success. I hope that they help you with your Rocket as well! ______________ There you have it......a very good reason to subscribe, IMHO. I learn alot about construction just from reading these type of articles. Plus they are coming out with more and more RV parts that are really high quality parts...even more of a reason for us to support them. Bryan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com>
Subject: Top Cowl Hinge Pins
Date: Jan 07, 2000
The hinges on my cowl work pretty well everywhere but the top. Even using the smaller hinge pin, it just does not want to go through the curve of the top of the cowl. Before I spend $$ on Camlocs for the top, any suggestions to make this fit? Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://members.home.net/rv8er Finish Kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: sliding canopy RV4
In a message dated 1/7/2000 12:08:32 AM Central Standard Time, Vanremog(at)aol.com writes: << << does anybody know where I can contact John Haehn about a sliding canopy for the RV4? >> >> otherwise you can contact Mark Fredricks at team rocket for a sliding canopy. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Top Cowl Hinge Pins
I tried a off-center point (wobble) polished onto the tip of the pin on the theory that a centered (symeterical) taper or point would contact the hinge eye at to blunt of a angle. When I spin my off-centered tipped pins in---everything is smooth & even. I need a little forward english (push), not much ,to spin-run the pins in with my Battery opt.Makitta. I pull out the pins in the same fassion with a little pull english when I spin them out. I also polish the pins with a nylon scrubbie to keep them clean. I also keep pins in all 4 long hinge halves when I have the cowl seperated so the eyes won't get knocked out of allignment. I had the same problem as you untill tried the off-center pin taper with a spin. Keep the pins bright & clean & lightly oiled. rv8er(at)home.com on 01/07/2000 11:56:15 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Top Cowl Hinge Pins The hinges on my cowl work pretty well everywhere but the top. Even using the smaller hinge pin, it just does not want to go through the curve of the top of the cowl. Before I spend $$ on Camlocs for the top, any suggestions to make this fit? Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://members.home.net/rv8er Finish Kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Top Cowl Hinge Pins- M O R E
If your hinge comes to far forward then the hinge bends to much for a smooth pin movement. See if the hinges are to close to the air inlet areas to be causing you this problem. rv8er(at)home.com on 01/07/2000 11:56:15 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Top Cowl Hinge Pins The hinges on my cowl work pretty well everywhere but the top. Even using the smaller hinge pin, it just does not want to go through the curve of the top of the cowl. Before I spend $$ on Camlocs for the top, any suggestions to make this fit? Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://members.home.net/rv8er Finish Kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Japundza, Bob" <bjapundza(at)dowagro.com>
Subject: Top Cowl Hinge Pins
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Taper the end of the hinge pins and put a slight bend at the end so they will go in easier around the corner. I have found that putting on/removing the cowling is a two-person job if you want to avoid scratching the paint...have your partner push on the corner and shake it while you are pushing on the pins. Thanks! Bob Japundza Dow AgroSciences Information Management EnterpriseWise IT Consulting 317-337-5348 -----Original Message----- From: Paul Besing [mailto:rv8er(at)home.com] Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 11:56 AM Subject: RV-List: Top Cowl Hinge Pins The hinges on my cowl work pretty well everywhere but the top. Even using the smaller hinge pin, it just does not want to go through the curve of the top of the cowl. Before I spend $$ on Camlocs for the top, any suggestions to make this fit? Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://members.home.net/rv8er Finish Kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: A20driver(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Off topic: Microsoft Flight Simulator
Hey Bill: The Aviation Consumer(Oct 99) reviewer on the simulators is a lady with a rather known last name----Jane Garvey!!!!! Jim Brown,3(160),NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2000
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Simplifly and MicroMonitor?
Anyone using the Simplifly Voice Warning unit in conjunction with the RMI MicroMonitor? Comments? Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Wings Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com>
Subject: Hoses are Pressure Tested
Date: Jan 07, 2000
If you are building your own hoses, be sure to pressure test all of them. I know it seems like a no brainer, but I am sure there are those out there that would not do it. I built up a bunch of really pretty hoses (About 14 total). All the way through the testing process, they were holding 2000 PSI! I was very happy with the job that I did. Then the last two to be tested, the two hoses to my oil cooler leaked at the fitting. They are now fixed, and do not leak. Whew..I am so glad I had them tested...Worth the $40, IMHO......I got them tested at Varga Enterprises, http://www.vargaair.com if you don't have anyone locally. Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://members.home.net/rv8er Finish Kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Top Cowl Hinge Pins
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Chamfering the start side hole of the hinge knuckles wouldn't hurt either. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) -----Original Message----- From: pcondon(at)csc.com <pcondon(at)csc.com> Date: Friday, January 07, 2000 1:23 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Top Cowl Hinge Pins > > >I tried a off-center point (wobble) polished onto the tip of the pin on the >theory that a centered (symeterical) taper or point would contact the hinge eye >at to blunt of a angle. When I spin my off-centered tipped pins in---everything >is smooth & even. I need a little forward english (push), not much ,to spin-run >the pins in with my Battery opt.Makitta. I pull out the pins in the same fassion >with a little pull english when I spin them out. I also polish the pins with a >nylon scrubbie to keep them clean. I also keep pins in all 4 long hinge halves >when I have the cowl seperated so the eyes won't get knocked out of allignment. >I had the same problem as you untill tried the off-center pin taper with a >spin. Keep the pins bright & clean & lightly oiled. > > >rv8er(at)home.com on 01/07/2000 11:56:15 AM > >Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: RV-List: Top Cowl Hinge Pins > > >The hinges on my cowl work pretty well everywhere but the top. Even using >the smaller hinge pin, it just does not want to go through the curve of the >top of the cowl. Before I spend $$ on Camlocs for the top, any suggestions >to make this fit? > >Paul Besing >RV-6A (197AB) Arizona >http://members.home.net/rv8er >Finish Kit > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2000
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Stupid question
I tried boelube and it did pretty much the same think. I would just punch the drill in the stuff. I suspose a little got on the work surface. I now use TAP Magic aluminum cutting fluid instead. It leaves some residue to wipe up but does a good job. I bought mine at WT tool wholesale. Earl rv4 still cutting and remaking parts Keith Hughes wrote: > > > I can't believe I'm about to ask such a silly question... > > I just got some "Boelube" and have been trying to incorporate it into my > work. > How the hell do you use this stuff. Tonight I tried to use some on a > countersink (#30), and it just flakes off. Is enough being applied to > the > cutting surface to do the job, or is it just too damn cold in the shop? > > And if you're going to write in and say that I shouldn't be around > airplanes, > you can save it... My first Instructor Pilot in the Air Force told me > that many > years ago. > > Thanks, > > Keith Hughes > RV-6 Wings > Parker, CO > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2000
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: HS incidence once again.
I just used a piece of scrap aluminum 1/16" thick on my HS. It did not require doing anything to the rear, although I am building an rv4 I do not beleive there would be much difference in a rv6. wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net wrote: > > > I remember seeing comments recently about raising the front spar of the > HS. Please help with two questions: > 1. What do you use as a shim? I would only need 1/16" underneath the front > spar. > 2. Doing this would put a moment on the rear spar in the current > configuration. What do you do about the rear spar attachment? > > Thanks, > N985VU > RV-6 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2000
From: George True <true(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Panel Planner Warning!
Randy, Thanks for the heads up on Panel Planner. I had already made up my mind that even using Panel Planner, I would buy nothing and cut nothing without measuring the actual panel and the actual instruments and avionics with ruler and caliper. As another lister has already said, the real usefulness of Panel Planner is in being able to visually juxtapose a variety of avionics in many different ways until arriving at a panel that is visually appealing to you and ergonomically well thought out. Also, I find that now that I am very familiar with this software, I can pull together a very complete panel from scratch in about 20-30 minutes. The one area where I have had problems with Panel Planner is that I have never been able to get it to print out the life-size color tiles. They come out of my printer looking like an abstract painting, like a Picasso or maybe a Salvador Dali. I know there's nothing wrong with the printer, so it has to be the software. As you know, Gordon Pratt sold Panel Planner to some software firm on the East Coast. I called them about the aforementioned Picasso effect. They seemed very anxious to help, but so far it's a mystery. They did have one very useful suggestion, though. They said rather than trying to print out individual tiles and then fit them together, download your panel to a floppy, take the floppy to Kinko's, and have them print it out in one piece on a huge piece of paper. I didn't know they had copiers that could do that, but apparently they do. I haven't tried it yet, but I plan to in the next few days. Just speculating, but perhaps part or all of your dimensional error was in the printing and fitting together of the separate tiles. I won't be picking up the RV-8 kit that I bought till March 1st, so I don't have an actual panel yet that I could compare a Kinko's printout to. Would you or someone else be willing to trace the outline of your panel on a big piece of paper and send it to me? Sorry to hear about your panel woes, and I hope you are able to modify your layout in a way that you can still be happy with. You may have saved others from the same fate. George True, Phoenix AZ true(at)uswest.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: threaded shank unibit ?
b green wrote: > > How about removing the shank and tapping the back with a 1/4-28 thread > and using a 1/4-28 stud to put it in the angle drill? Or is the bit too > hard to cut threads in it?? For what it's worth.... The Unitbit I needed came with a 1/2" shank. My drills can take up to a 3/8" shank. I was able to turn the shank Dia down on the lathe without much problem after I got past the first .020". This tends to make me wonder if the Unibit was case hardened rather than fully hardened. With this in mind, perhaps you will be able to drill and tap it. Good luck! Glenn Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kbalch1(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Rudder ??
Well, both stabs are done as of last night, so today it was on to the rudder. Which leads me to the following questions: 1) Drawing 7PP (upper right corner) shows the R-405PD rudder horn as having four holes drilled in the bottom (two 1/8" & two 3/16"). I couldn't find anything in the manual about when to drill those & George O. doesn't mention it in his video, either. I assume they're related to the tailwheel chain attachments down the line. The drawing doesn't say anything about "drill in assembly with...", so shall I drill them now while I can easily do so on the drill press? 2) Regarding the location of rib R-803 on the rudder spar: George O. mentions in his video that there's a measurement involved here, but I couldn't find this figure on drawing 7PP or in the manual. I believe that it should be located right where the indents in the rib flange are found, which would also allow for correct placement of the counterweight skin R-813. Is that correct, or have I missed something that should have been obvious? Thanks in advance... Regards, Ken Balch Ashland, MA RV-8 #81125 rudder & elevators ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvmils(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: sliding canopy RV4
Here's the # I had for John 602 376-2856, not sure if he still uses that #. His address is P.O. Box 11671, Casa Grande, AZ 85230. I have two more old #'s 520 836-6030 and 520 560-2392 not sure on that either. Carey Mills ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mike.nellis(at)mcd.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Rudder attachment
Scott, thanks for the simple answer for a simple problem. I knew all that grade school math would come in handy someday. I ended up using some telescopic gauges and setting the top and bottom rod end bearing at some arbitrary point. I took a measurement with the telescoping gauge and subtracted that about from the required distance and then turned the rod end bearing in/out the required amount. It got me in the ballpark for the top and bottom bearings. The part of your suggestion that made the most sense was the part about using a string to position the middle rod bearing. Duhhhhhhh, what was I thinking? Didn't I do enough of that during the HS and VS building stages? I must have taken that rudder off 5 or 6 times adjusting that &*% #@ center bearing. :>) I'll take your advice when positioning the elevators. Mike http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page From: ScottGesele <sgesele(at)usa.net> on 01/07/2000 09:47 AM cc: Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder attachment Mike, You should be able to set this relatively easily by doing a little math. For the lower rod end, the overall distance between the two spars is 2 1/2" (I'm taking this from your your post, my drawings are home). use the formula: A - B = C A = 2 1/2" (the overall distance) B = The distance from the center of the bolt hole on the VS lower brack to the VS rear spar. You get this dimention by adding all the things that are spacing this hole from the rear spar, such as the thickness of the plate and the distance from the bottom of the steel bracket to the bolt hole. C = the distance for the center of the bolt hole on the rod end to the front spar of the rudder. Perform the same process for the top rod end. For the center rod end, take your best guess (start with an average of the top and bottom) and then stretch a sting from the top rod end, through the center and then through the bottom. Remove the string and adjust the center accordingly. Hope this helps. Scott Gesele - N506RV - Flying >I've just finished the rudder and tried to fit it to the VS on my RV6 kit. How >have other performed the initial fit in the past? The plans call for a 2.5" >distance for the lower heim joint bolt between the VS rear spar and the Rudder >forward spar and 2" for the top. Is the an initial depth the heim joint bolt >should be screwed in that would get me in the ball park? I spent the better >part of an hour fitting the bolts, removing them and refitting them before I >could get things to fit properly. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2000
From: "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Rudder ??
Message text written by Ken Balch: >1) Drawing 7PP (upper right corner) shows the R-405PD rudder horn as having four holes drilled in the bottom..., so shall I drill them now while I can easily do so on the drill press?< Sure, I just did mine on the aircraft, don't know why I waited. 2) Regarding the location of rib R-803 on the rudder spar: George O. mentions in his video that there's a measurement involved here, but I couldn't find this figure on drawing 7PP or in the manual. I believe that it should be located right where the indents in the rib flange are found, which would also allow for correct placement of the counterweight skin R-813. Is that correct, or have I missed something that should have been obvious? In the top left of the drawing there is a measurement of 8 1/16" from the leading edge of the 803 to the rear of the spar. Scott A. Jordan 80331 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Top Cowl Hinge Pins
Date: Jan 07, 2000
> > >The hinges on my cowl work pretty well everywhere but the top. Even using >the smaller hinge pin, it just does not want to go through the curve of the >top of the cowl. Before I spend $$ on Camlocs for the top, any suggestions >to make this fit? > >Paul Besing >RV-6A (197AB) Arizona >http://members.home.net/rv8er >Finish Kit Paul, I ground the pin tips to a non-concentric point, so they would (at least in theory) try to work themselves forward with a pushing and twisting motion provided by yours truly. It's still a pain to get them in the last few inches, but it is getting easier every time I do a cowling removal/installation cycle. I also bent the pins in a curve approximating that of the top of the firewall. Another aid to getting them in is tapping on the cowling/firewall junction where you think the pin point it with your free hand. A few smacks, twists and shoves, and they do go in. It ain't graceful, but it's working fine for me. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD 10 hours of RV grins so far. Will work for avgas. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Nolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com>
Subject: Comant VOR/GS/LOC Antenna
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Listers, I've got another question for you guys. Has anyone installed a Comant CI-215 VOR/GS/LOC Antenna. If so, where did you mount it and how well does it function. I'm installing a Nav/Com with Glideslope and need to know about this antenna. I was hoping to install it on the belly, straight down from the Horz/Vert intersection. I have strobes in my wingtips and don't want to waste time experimenting with location. Jim Nolan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder ??
Date: Jan 07, 2000
> > 1) Drawing 7PP (upper right corner) shows the R-405PD rudder horn as having > four holes drilled in the bottom (two 1/8" & two 3/16"). I couldn't find > anything in the manual about when to drill those & George O. doesn't mention > it in his video, either. I assume they're related to the tailwheel chain > attachments down the line. The drawing doesn't say anything about "drill in > assembly with...", so shall I drill them now while I can easily do so on the > drill press? I would think it would be a little easier to drill them now. I didn't, but I don't see it as being a problem either way. 2) Regarding the location of rib R-803 on the rudder spar: George O. mentions > in his video that there's a measurement involved here, but I couldn't find > this figure on drawing 7PP or in the manual. I believe that it should be > located right where the indents in the rib flange are found, which would also > allow for correct placement of the counterweight skin R-813. Is that > correct, or have I missed something that should have been obvious? I think the 8-1/16" dimension in the upper left corner of drawing 7PP is what you are looking for. Terry Watson RV-8A #80729 tanks Seattle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Re: Comant VOR/GS/LOC Antenna
Date: Jan 07, 2000
> >Listers, > I've got another question for you guys. Has anyone installed a Comant >CI-215 VOR/GS/LOC Antenna. If so, where did you mount it and Jim, I'm not familiar with the Comant antenna but if it is like the usual " V " type VOR antenna refer to the fourth issue of the Rvator, page 14. A very neat installation with photo's of David Faile's ( who is on this list, Comments David? ) VOR antenna installation. Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH Salmon Arm B.C. First flight Sept. 8,1993 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Marty Emrath <Emrath(at)home.com>
Subject: Stupid question
Date: Jan 07, 2000
I use a candle and put some candle wax on the threads and they go right in. ---------- From: dgmurray Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 11:38 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Stupid question > >I just got some "Boelube" and have been trying to incorporate it into my work. >How the hell do you use this stuff. Tonight I tried to use some on a >countersink (#30), and it just flakes off. Is enough being applied to >the cutting surface to do the job, or is it just too damn cold in the shop? >Thanks, > >Keith Hughes >RV-6 Wings >Parker, CO Keith - Yes, it does flake off a bit. Just get a little on the cutter and start working. The Boelube sort of melts and then lubricates as you drill or countersink. You can even put a flake or two near the cutting tool to enhance the cutting. Later you will want to scrape a little Boelube onto the threads of the screws that will be used with nut plates. It is amazing how easy the Boelube makes the screws turn in. Have fun building. It gets better each day. Doug Murray RV-6 Southern Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DFaile(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Comant VOR/GS/LOC Antenna
In a message dated 01/07/2000 8:46:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, ve7fp(at)jetstream.net writes: << Has anyone installed a Comant >CI-215 VOR/GS/LOC Antenna. If so, where did you mount it and >> Comant VOR/LOC/GS antenna was a fun little project to install in the vertical stabilizer. The antenna base does protrude out the sides of the VS skin, less than .5". I hear that there is an antenna that will fit totally inside the top of the VS. I do not know anything about it and how strong the base is, but the Comant antenna is a strong and reliable antenna. You still want to remember to install it so that it is serviceable without having to cut metal or composite. I used a neat little hat section and a moveable plate to insure that I could line up the antenna before final attachment. The antenna lead will drop down through the VS (I use a Unibit stuck or wedged into the end of a piece of 4130 steel tubing to make it a long Unibit to drill the rib inside the VS) and find its' way to the radio stack. The VS fairing is attached with #6 screws/nutplates - flush. Please contact me off list if you need or want more details (dfaile(at)aol.com). david faile, fairfield, ct mcfii/a&p faa aviation safety counselor eaa technical counselor/flight advisor christen eagle ii since '82 (n13bf) rv6 (n44df) started ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brett and Colleen Herrick" <cherrick(at)hsonline.net>
Subject: Which RV Tool Set, Avery or Cleaveland?
Date: Jan 07, 2000
I am just getting started on a RV-6AQ and need to purchase the sheet metal tools that I will need (i.e. I currently do not have any sheet metal tools). I have narrowed my decision as to who to buy from to Avery and Cleaveland. But, my question is which tool set would be better to purchase Avery's RV-A/B-KIT or Cleaveland's Complete Airframe Tool Package? On either of these sets are there additions, deletions, upgrades that I should make? Are there tools that are better from supplier than from the other and thus should I be buying individual tools from both? Your comments on these questions would be greatly appreciated. Brett Herrick Columbus, IN Do not achieve ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bobpaulo(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: rv6 or rv6a??
i need advise re: taildrag or nosewheel. i am a low time pilot with c-150, 172 experience only. i am at the stage of ordering wings (tail done), and plan to get some tail time during fusel/finishing/... what i need to know from experienced pilots of both is: tail land and take offs that much more difficult?? kinda awkward wanting to build a taildragger with no time-at least up to this point. replys appreciated. bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Which RV Tool Set, Avery or Cleaveland?
In a message dated 1/7/2000 9:31:36 PM Central Standard Time, cherrick(at)hsonline.net writes: << I am just getting started on a RV-6AQ and need to purchase the sheet metal tools that I will need (i.e. I currently do not have any sheet metal tools). I have narrowed my decision as to who to buy from to Avery and Cleaveland. But, my question is which tool set would be better to purchase Avery's RV-A/B-KIT or Cleaveland's Complete Airframe Tool Package? On either of these sets are there additions, deletions, upgrades that I should make? Are there tools that are better from supplier than from the other and thus should I be buying individual tools from both? Your comments on these questions would be greatly appreciated. Brett Herrick Columbus, IN Do not achieve >> If anyone wants I have a list of tools that mark fredricks helped me put together for my rocket. Let me know and i will finish it up and email it to anyone who requests it. Its a microsoft excel file. Chris Wilcox F-1 Rocket ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bobpaulo(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: rv6 or 6a? ooops
i just saw the wings of 6 and 6a are same and no decision needed until fusel time. sorry bout that, but still would like input from experienced pilots of both taildraggers and... thanx again, bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: capsteve(at)wzrd.com
Subject: 5th point attach
Date: Jan 07, 2000
after checking the archives I am still left with the burning question of what to do with the crotch strap or fifth point attach . up till now I just assumed it would just bolt up to the spar. I suppose it could go there if I can find somewhere else to put that darned stick....... I know its been done before, but after a long winded web page search i came up blank on photos. does anyone have pics or a drawing of an adequate attach structure? btw i called scott at vans and i have to call back on monday after he has a chance to see how it was done on another craft there...does this mean there is no publicly accepted vans approved drawing?? steve dinieri capsteve(at)wzrd.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bobpaulo(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Which RV Tool Set, Avery or Cleaveland?
i started doing business with avery when i started last year and after buying the basics and it seems like i add a tool or gadget every other week; i have found avery to be fantastic. and no i am not related to them. the orders are sent same day with no errors. i had one minor incident months ago-which i later found out it was my ignorance but avery made it up to me without cost, even postage. when i want a tool or something i want it quickly and they have always... i have even talked to bob avery himself and he has given me some building tips that only a builder ... i could go on and on-go with them, u won't be disappointed. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV8DRIVER(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Which RV Tool Set, Avery or Cleaveland?
Brett, back when I started on the -8 about a year ago, I did a spreadsheet on the tools offered by Avery and Cleveland. They don't offer the exact comparable tools so I had to try to make allowances both ways. The long and short of this is that I found Cleveland to be better on price overall, when the same tools are compared. Both companies provide quality equipment and fine service so that's not an issue. About the only thing of major difference that I can recall is that Avery includes their very heavy-duty squeezer in their tool package, and Cleveland has the Tatco unit. As it is more expensive than the Tatco, this obviously affect the price. For 1/8" rivets, especially if over a 2" yoke is required, the Tatco is not stiff enough and its easy to get a bad shop head. This is not a problem with the 2" and smaller yokes. I went with Cleveland initially and have not regretted that decision. I have since bought tools from Avery, Brown, US Tool, and others I cannot recall at the moment. Go to Sun N' Fun, Oshkosh, or any of the major events and start collecting catalogs. Good luck! Andy Johnson, Boca Raton, FL, -8, left wing finished. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: Re: 5th point attach
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Steve What I did on my four to attach the fifth belt was make a triangular shaped bracket out of steel, the same thickness as the washers used on the middle two spar bolts,with suitably sized holes at each corner and used it to replace the washers on the bolts in the spar and then attached the belt to the top hole. I did this on the rear side of the spar. It is necessary to make a hole in the seat to pass the belt through. If you are building a six of course it would not be the middle two bolts you would use. Joe Hine RV4 C-FYTQ > > after checking the archives I am still left with the burning question of >what to do with the crotch strap or fifth point attach . up till now I just >assumed it would just bolt up to the spar. I suppose it could go there if I >can find somewhere else to put that darned stick....... > I know its been done before, but after a long winded web page search i >came up blank on photos. does anyone have pics or a drawing of an adequate >attach structure? > btw i called scott at vans and i have to call back on monday after he >has a chance to see how it was done on another craft there...does this mean >there is no publicly accepted vans approved drawing?? > > >steve dinieri >capsteve(at)wzrd.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2000
From: Keith Hughes <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Which RV Tool Set, Avery or Cleaveland?
Brett, I have done business with both companies. Both are great to work with, and you would not be disappointed with the quality or service of either. It really does boil down to which tools you want. I didn't get any pre-made set, but just picked mine, a little from each company based on price or specific tool. Seems a little ridiculous now, since I have all the tools that would have come in a set. By the way... something neither company has that comes in REAL handy... A pair of gold earrings. They sure did help when it came time to write a check or two to airplane related companies. The down side is that we may be up to a BMW by the time I have to order the engine. Enjoy! Keith Hughes Polishing the bejeeezus outta my wing spar! Parker, CO Brett and Colleen Herrick wrote: > On either of these sets are there additions, deletions, upgrades that I should > make? Are > there tools that are better from supplier than from the other and thus > should I be buying individual tools from both? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TColeE(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Top Cowl Hinge Pins
What I did was to take a drimmel tool with a round file, a small round file and ever so lightly touched the foreward edge of each foreward eye to allow it to open up just a little to allow the pin to not bind as it went through. Worked for me. N468TC at the airport for final assembly. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2000
From: Keith Hughes <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Which RV Tool Set, Avery or Cleaveland?
By the way... I STRONGLY recommend the Avery squeezer instead of the Tatco. I bought the Tatco and really like the Avery much better. Avery's has a little longer arms and grips that make setting the bigger rivets easier. That will add up when you have to do a lot of them like on the horizontal stab spar. Plus the Avery tool will interchange yokes with a pneumatic squeezer, in case you ever get one. And if you try one...... Just my $.02. Keith Hughes RV-6 Wings Parker, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: rv6 or rv6a??
In a message dated 1/7/00 8:11:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, Bobpaulo(at)aol.com writes: << i need advise re: taildrag or nosewheel. i am a low time pilot with c-150, 172 experience only. i am at the stage of ordering wings (tail done), and plan to get some tail time during fusel/finishing/... what i need to know from experienced pilots of both is: tail land and take offs that much more difficult?? kinda awkward wanting to build a taildragger with no time-at least up to this point. >> IMO it depends on how you are going to use the plane. They all fly the same in the air. I built the 6A (trigear) although most of my flight time was in tailwheel a/c, because I really wanted my favorite passenger of the feminine persuasion (who is not a rated pilot) to be able to safely land the plane in the event that I became incapacitated (as in dead or unconscious). I felt that this was more likely to occur in a trigear plane. We do lots of cross-country, enjoy night flying and just find that the trigear is easier on both our nerves going into new places under all variety of wind conditions. I've known experienced pilots flying taildraggers that really scared themselves and their passengers under conditions we consider routine. Your mileage may vary, -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: rv6 or rv6a??
Bob, Perhaps the low time taildragger pilots are the ones to ask. My first lesson started exactly one year ago this month in a -6 which Santa gave me for Christmas. Today I have logged more than 100 hours total tail time. Before that all of my time were in 150's and 172's like you. In my opinion, yes it's that much more difficult. But "difficult" is probably not the best choice of words. "Demanding" is a bit better. My learning curve was huge during the first, say, 6 hours. My instructor looked more relaxed after about 8 hours. By the tenth hour he was twirling his thumbs and counting my landings by tapping his index finger on the C/B's. My insurance required 15 hours of dual time so we flew 15 before he signed me off. Today I'm glad to have picked the -6 and have not regretted it once. Everyone of my takeoffs and landings are still exciting and I still marvel the attention they require as each one is totally different. My first anual inspection is just completed. I only needed to replace one washer and two cotter pins (yay!). I'm buttoning her up tomorrow. Can't wait. I have also seen a few -6A flying in this area. They are also sexy looking. I'm sure you won't regret whichever one you pick. N985VU Maryland > >i need advise re: taildrag or nosewheel. i am a low time pilot with c-150, >172 experience only. i am at the stage of ordering wings (tail done), and >plan to get some tail time during fusel/finishing/... what i need to know >from experienced pilots of both is: tail land and take offs that much more >difficult?? kinda awkward wanting to build a taildragger with no time-at >least up to this point. replys appreciated. bob > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2000
From: glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Which RV Tool Set, Avery or Cleaveland?
Brett just some thoughts: I purchased the kits from avery's and the only upgrade you really need is the drill motor go with the middle or upper brand as it is quieter and is more comfortable to your hands, you will be satisfied with avery's I guarantee it. Mind you my hangar is right across the street from avery's which make it more convenient for me but as an A&P I demand quality in my tools as this is my living and avery has surpassed all my requirements you won,t be disappointed Glenn Williams 8A WINGS A&P MECHANIC FT. WORTH, TX> --- CW9371(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 1/7/2000 9:31:36 PM Central > Standard Time, > cherrick(at)hsonline.net writes: > > << I am just getting started on a RV-6AQ and need to > purchase the sheet metal > tools that I will need (i.e. I currently do not > have any sheet metal tools). > I have narrowed my decision as to who to buy from > to Avery and Cleaveland. > But, my question is which tool set would be better > to purchase Avery's > RV-A/B-KIT or Cleaveland's Complete Airframe Tool > Package? On either of > these sets are there additions, deletions, upgrades > that I should make? Are > there tools that are better from supplier than from > the other and thus > should I be buying individual tools from both? > > Your comments on these questions would be greatly > appreciated. > > Brett Herrick > Columbus, IN > > Do not achieve >> > > If anyone wants I have a list of tools that mark > fredricks helped me put > together for my rocket. Let me know and i will > finish it up and email it to > anyone who requests it. Its a microsoft excel file. > > > Chris Wilcox > F-1 Rocket > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JusCash(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Subject: Re: Comant VOR/GS/LOC Antenna
Jim, Have been using this antenna on my Bonanza for about 20 years with about 2000 hours of navigating and approaching. When laying out the antennas for my -6 I didn't want to reinvent the wheel. My antenna is where you propose to mount yours. I've seen many RV's with the antennas in this location. The owners I've talked to expressed no problems with this installation. Wing tip mounts are nice. I just can't take the chance of loosing a Nav,Loc or GS signal at the wrong time. All of my antenna's are on the belly of the airplane. I am willing to give up a little drag for reliability that I am familiar with. My airplane will be certified to fly IFR. Cash Copeland RV6 N46FC In a message dated 1/8/00 1:00:22 AM GMT Standard Time, JimNolan(at)kconline.com writes: << Listers, I've got another question for you guys. Has anyone installed a Comant CI-215 VOR/GS/LOC Antenna. If so, where did you mount it and how well does it function. I'm installing a Nav/Com with Glideslope and need to know about this antenna. I was hoping to install it on the belly, straight down from the Horz/Vert intersection. I have strobes in my wingtips and don't want to waste time experimenting with location. Jim Nolan >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Subject: Threaded Shank Unibit-Different Approach
Just a thought. The latest Harbor Freight catalog has a 3/8" 90 degree drill attachment for about 20 bucks. Harry Crosby ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Hanson" <slhanson(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Heating Cufff Materials
Date: Jan 07, 2000
I would like to know what materials have been found to work best in the Heating muff. I would like to get as much heat off the exhaust pipes as possible without restricting air flow or causing other problems. I assume lemon scented Brillo is not the way to go. Gary Hanson 246RV RV6a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bryan E. Files" <BFiles(at)corecom.net>
Subject: Re: rv6 or rv6a??
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Tail wheel airplanes are not as hard to fly as the myths that surround them. **** Bryan E. Files **** Ever Fly Maintenance Palmer, Alaska A&P, IA, FAA Safety Counselor mailto:BFiles(at)corecom.net ----- Original Message ----- From: <Bobpaulo(at)aol.com> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 6:41 PM Subject: RV-List: rv6 or rv6a?? > > i need advise re: taildrag or nosewheel. i am a low time pilot with c-150, > 172 experience only. i am at the stage of ordering wings (tail done), and > plan to get some tail time during fusel/finishing/... what i need to know > from experienced pilots of both is: tail land and take offs that much more > difficult?? kinda awkward wanting to build a taildragger with no time-at > least up to this point. replys appreciated. bob > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Cheap Strobes
Date: Jan 07, 2000
http://www.galls.com/shop/viewProductDetail.jsp?item=GR061 These small Whelan strobes look very neat but I am worried that they are not bright enough. They are a set of four so maybe all of them flashing together would pack enough punch. Norman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RodWoodard(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Subject: Re: rv6 or rv6a??
Hi Bob, This thread is about as good as a primer thread. I can never resist throwing my 2 cents' worth in... Up until 1998, I hadn't flown anything but the standard spam can airplanes--Cessna's through the 210 and Cherokees through a Cherokee 6, a Mooney thrown in for comic relief. I started building an RV-8 in 1996 with no tailwheel time. In 1998 I had a chance to buy a Champ with a partner so I did. Before we bought the Champ, I did about 7 hours in a Citabria and 3 hours in a Super Cub with instructors. I did another 3 hours in our Champ before I soloed. I stopped scaring myself (and those around me) about halfway through my initial tailwheel time. I felt really comfortable in the Champ after about 50 hours (in my case, about 4 months). I accumulated 125 hours in the Champ before we sold it in early 1999. In July of 1999, I bought an RV-3. I just sold it this past weekend. In the 6 months I owned it, I flew about 135 hours. The difference between the RV and the Champ was pretty much night and day, but I couldn's really say one was "harder" than the other. The Champ had awful brakes. Brakes are very useful in very strong crosswinds--especially important for actually getting to or from a runway--if you find that sort of thing necessary. The Champ also had these HUGE wings way up high off the ground that tended to want to keep flying in strong winds. Picture yourself carrying a 4x8 sheet of 1/4" plywood on top of your head in a strong wind... That's pretty close. The good thing about landing the Champ was that it was very forgiving. The "no bounce" gear soaked up all but my worst landings. (Yes, Viginia, it IS possible to bounce a Champ.) The big rudder (and lack of brakes) meant that if you did start to get sideways, you (a) had a good chance of saving it and (b) weren't going to make the situation worse with the inappropriate use of brakes. In our case, the heel brake pedals were mostly just cosmetic. The parts of the RV that made it more difficult to land than the Champ were (a) the stiff gear legs; (b) the shorter distance between the mains and the tailwheel (a/k/a "short-coupled"); (c) the brakes; and (d) a little less forward visibility. The aspects that make the RV easier are (a) brakes; (b) the smaller wings; and (c) low wing. All this being said, I can tell you that right now I'd MUCH rather be in an RV-3 than a Cessna 182 if there's a big crosswind. I think that nosewheel out front just gets in the way of keeping a wing down and keeping a low angle of attack when landing in a stiff crosswind. I haven't flown a Van's nosewheel plane, but I'm sure they're better than a Cessna, too (because of the low-wing). The bottom line is that you'll be most comfortable in whatever you get used to flying. I "sport" fly around 20 hours a month or so. Maybe that's why I feel real comfortable in a taildragger. I don't know. Whatever you do, don't get caught up in any macho talk about one or the other being a wimpy option or a training wheel or whatever. There are many pilots on this list who are better than I'll ever be and they decided on the nosewheel version. Also don't get caught up into comparing actual numbers of how much wind one pilot or another landed in. I'm not all that old, but one thing I've learned already is that as time goes on I was better and better at everything in the past. :-) [Yes that's right all you English majors--I intentionally mismatched a verb.] Bottom line: Do whatever your gut's telling you to do. Either way you'll end up with a fine airplane that'll be unmatched by any spam can out there. The only people who would seriously question your decision are those who'll also question your paint job and your choice of a spouse. I guess that's more like 50 cents worth of reading, isn't it... Still only _worth_ 2 cents! Best regards, Rod Woodard N99RV (RV-3) sold RV-3B #11339 empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Comant VOR/GS/LOC Antenna
Date: Jan 07, 2000
> Has anyone installed a Comant > CI-215 VOR/GS/LOC Antenna. If so, where did you mount it and how > well does it function. I'm installing a Nav/Com with Glideslope and need > to know about this antenna. I was hoping to install it on the belly, > straight down from the Horz/Vert intersection. Thats where mine is. Installed with the whiskers pointed backwards, and although I think its been said they are supposed to be forwards, I also _think_ I remember the instructions saying they could be either way. Anyway, mine works fine for both VOR and LOC/GS. Don't know if you have the same model I do, but mine had a standoff on it that needed to be ground off so it would sit up against the belly. Talked to Comant before doing this and they said go for it. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~50 hrs) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Pressure Testing Hose
Date: Jan 07, 2000
>Does anyone know what pressure my fuel and oil hoses should be pressure >tested to? The hose that I used (Aeroquip from Vans) has a tag on it that says it's rated to 1000psi . So thats what I had it tested to. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~50 hrs) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Subject: Re: Heating Cufff Materials
In a message dated 1/7/00 10:34:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, slhanson(at)teleport.com writes: << I would like to know what materials have been found to work best in the Heating muff. >> Stainless steel pot scrubber pads packed LOOSELY between the pipes and the muff. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2000
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: rv6 or rv6a??
> In a message dated 1/7/00 8:11:44 PM Pacific > Standard Time, Bobpaulo(at)aol.com > writes: > > << i need advise re: taildrag or nosewheel. i am a > low time pilot with c-150, > 172 experience only. i am at the stage of ordering > wings (tail done), and > plan to get some tail time during > fusel/finishing/... what i need to know > from experienced pilots of both is: tail land and > take offs that much more > difficult?? kinda awkward wanting to build a > taildragger with no time-at > least up to this point. IMHO, get the one you realy want. Any RV is GREAT! I also had most of my time in 150, 152, & 172. When I first flew my -6, I had 210 total time with 50 in tailwheel. I now have over 550 hours tailwheel and only 165 hours tricycle. (485 in my -6 alone) Of the 6 or 7 different tailwheel aircraft that I have flown, the RVs are the easiest to land. The crosswind ability of my RV-6 is better than any of the other (non RV) aircraft I have flown. My recommendation would be to go get a checkout (about 10 hours) in any tailwheel aircraft that you can find. Option 1) Once that is done, get someone that has a tailwheel RV to take you for a ride. Option 2) After having a tailwheel check out, give Van a call to see if you can get one hour training in both a tailwheel and a tricycle RV. Option 1 or 2 should give you enough info into picking the one that you really want. Once your RV (tricycle or tailwheel) is done, you are going to love that airplane. Thanks Van for designing such a wonderful flying airplane. ==== Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, Flying So. CA, USA Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Which RV Tool Set, Avery or Cleaveland?
Date: Jan 08, 2000
They're both great...you have some builders that are loyal to Avery, and some to Cleaveland. I have bought the majority of tools from Cleaveland, just because that is who I called first. Avery tends to be just a hair bit more expensive on some things, but not much at all. Their service is great, for both companies...flip a coin. If you would like to see a list of "most" of the tools that I have used on my QB, you can see it at: http://members.home.net/rv8er/thetools.htm Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://members.home.net/rv8er Finish Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett and Colleen Herrick" <cherrick(at)hsonline.net> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 8:24 PM Subject: RV-List: Which RV Tool Set, Avery or Cleaveland? > > I am just getting started on a RV-6AQ and need to purchase the sheet metal > tools that I will need (i.e. I currently do not have any sheet metal tools). > I have narrowed my decision as to who to buy from to Avery and Cleaveland. > But, my question is which tool set would be better to purchase Avery's > RV-A/B-KIT or Cleaveland's Complete Airframe Tool Package? On either of > these sets are there additions, deletions, upgrades that I should make? Are > there tools that are better from supplier than from the other and thus > should I be buying individual tools from both? > > Your comments on these questions would be greatly appreciated. > > Brett Herrick > Columbus, IN > > Do not achieve > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Wiza" <planejoe(at)ewol.com>
Subject: Re: Top Cowl Hinge Pins
Date: Jan 08, 2000
I made a point on one end of the hinge pin and used an electric drill. Also used a debur tool to round some of the edges where the pin stopped. With 44 hrs logged the pins are getting much easier to get in and out. I think I woul persevere with the pins. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)home.com> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 11:56 AM Subject: RV-List: Top Cowl Hinge Pins > > The hinges on my cowl work pretty well everywhere but the top. Even using > the smaller hinge pin, it just does not want to go through the curve of the > top of the cowl. Before I spend $$ on Camlocs for the top, any suggestions > to make this fit? > > Paul Besing > RV-6A (197AB) Arizona > http://members.home.net/rv8er > Finish Kit > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2000
From: RV6BLDR <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Which RV Tool Set, Avery or Cleaveland?
> > I am just getting started on a RV-6AQ and need to purchase the sheet > metal > > tools that I will need (i.e. I currently do not have any sheet metal > tools). > > I have narrowed my decision as to who to buy from to Avery and > Cleaveland. > > But, my question is which tool set would be better to purchase Avery's > > RV-A/B-KIT or Cleaveland's Complete Airframe Tool Package? On either > of > > these sets are there additions, deletions, upgrades that I should > make? Are > > there tools that are better from supplier than from the other and thus > > should I be buying individual tools from both? > > > > Your comments on these questions would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Brett Herrick > > Columbus, IN > > > > Do not achieve > > > > I have seen Avery's and Cleaveland's mentioned in this thread, but there is another company called Brown's Tools, that also has high quality tools. I have bought from all three and the pricing and service are very comparible. Brown's is just down the street from my office so they are very handy for getting something in a hurry! There are others out there, but IMHO, these are the ABC's(Avery's, Brown's, Cleaveland's) of tool buying. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "christopher huey" <clhuey(at)sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Top Cowl Hinge Pins
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Change your pins periodically. When you spin them in they fatigue and can shear in the middle of the hinge. It is a real pain to get them out now. C.H. ---------- > From: Joe Wiza <planejoe(at)ewol.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Top Cowl Hinge Pins > Date: Saturday, January 08, 2000 8:04 AM > > > I made a point on one end of the hinge pin and used an electric drill. Also > used a debur tool to round some of the edges where the pin stopped. With 44 > hrs logged the pins are getting much easier to get in and out. I think I > woul persevere with the pins. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)home.com> > To: RV List > Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 11:56 AM > Subject: RV-List: Top Cowl Hinge Pins > > > > > > The hinges on my cowl work pretty well everywhere but the top. Even using > > the smaller hinge pin, it just does not want to go through the curve of > the > > top of the cowl. Before I spend $$ on Camlocs for the top, any > suggestions > > to make this fit? > > > > Paul Besing > > RV-6A (197AB) Arizona > > http://members.home.net/rv8er > > Finish Kit > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Sheppard" <jtshepp(at)lvnworth.com>
Subject: rv6 or rv6a??
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Tail dragging is definitely a different discipline. A pleasure to experience in my opinion. I've only got 10 hrs in a tail dragger but didn't hesitate to build the RV8. I'm looking forward to the challenges. Plus, they just look so much "cooler"! John Sheppard (tanks) (4000hrs mil, C-141, T-37) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bobpaulo(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 9:41 PM Subject: RV-List: rv6 or rv6a?? i need advise re: taildrag or nosewheel. i am a low time pilot with c-150, 172 experience only. i am at the stage of ordering wings (tail done), and plan to get some tail time during fusel/finishing/... what i need to know from experienced pilots of both is: tail land and take offs that much more difficult?? kinda awkward wanting to build a taildragger with no time-at least up to this point. replys appreciated. bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2000
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Which RV Tool Set, Avery or Cleaveland?
I concur. I have not dealt with Cleveland. Dont think you can get better service or products anywhere that would be better quality than with Avery. Earl RV4 Bobpaulo(at)aol.com wrote: > > > i started doing business with avery when i started last year and after buying > the basics and it seems like i add a tool or gadget every other week; i have > found avery to be fantastic. and no i am not related to them. the orders are > sent same day with no errors. i had one minor incident months ago-which i > later found out it was my ignorance but avery made it up to me without cost, > even postage. when i want a tool or something i want it quickly and they have > always... i have even talked to bob avery himself and he has given me some > building tips that only a builder ... > i could go on and on-go with them, u won't be disappointed. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kbalch1(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Subject: Re: Rudder ??
Hi Scott, Thanks for the info. A couple more related questions: In a message dated 1/7/2000 7:20:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com writes: > Message text written by Ken Balch: > >1) Drawing 7PP (upper right corner) shows the R-405PD rudder horn as > having > four holes drilled in the bottom..., so shall I drill them now while I can > easily do so on the > drill press?< > > Sure, I just did mine on the aircraft, don't know why I waited. Am I interpreting the drawing correctly in that the 3/16" holes are the forward ones and the 1/8" holes are the rearmost ones? > In the top left of the drawing there is a measurement of 8 1/16" from the > leading edge of the 803 to the rear of the spar. My copy of drawing 7PP (R4 - 9/22/99) shows a dimension of 0 7/16" in that area. Is that a misprint? Should it read 8 1/16"? Regards, Ken Balch Ashland, MA RV-8 #81125 rudder & elevators ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kbalch1(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Subject: Re: Rudder ??
Hi Scott, Thanks for the info. A couple more related questions: In a message dated 1/7/2000 7:20:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com writes: > Message text written by Ken Balch: > >1) Drawing 7PP (upper right corner) shows the R-405PD rudder horn as > having > four holes drilled in the bottom..., so shall I drill them now while I can > easily do so on the > drill press?< > > Sure, I just did mine on the aircraft, don't know why I waited. Am I interpreting the drawing correctly in that the 3/16" holes are the forward ones and the 1/8" holes are the rearmost ones? > In the top left of the drawing there is a measurement of 8 1/16" from the > leading edge of the 803 to the rear of the spar. My copy of drawing 7PP (R4 - 9/22/99) shows a dimension of 0 7/16" in that area. Is that a misprint? Should it read 8 1/16"? Regards, Ken Balch Ashland, MA RV-8 #81125 rudder & elevators ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kbalch1(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Subject: Re: Rudder ??
In a message dated 1/7/2000 7:48:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, tcwatson(at)seanet.com writes: > I think the 8-1/16" dimension in the upper left corner of drawing 7PP is > what you are looking for. > My copy of drawing 7PP (R4 - 9/22/99) shows a dimension of 0 1/16" in the upper left corner. I can't find 8 1/16" anywhere up there. Is it just a misprint on my drawing? That makes the most sense. Something for me to inform Van's about... Regards, Ken Balch Ashland, MA RV-8 #81125 rudder & elevators ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kbalch1(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Subject: Re: Which RV Tool Set, Avery or Cleaveland?
In a message dated 1/7/2000 11:27:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bobpaulo(at)aol.com writes: > i started doing business with avery when i started last year and after buying > the basics and it seems like i add a tool or gadget every other week; i have > found avery to be fantastic. and no i am not related to them. the orders are > sent same day with no errors. i had one minor incident months ago-which i > later found out it was my ignorance but avery made it up to me without cost, > even postage. when i want a tool or something i want it quickly and they > have always... i have even talked to bob avery himself and he has given me some > building tips that only a builder ... i could go on and on-go with them, u won't be > disappointed. I started dealing with Avery's just over a month ago when I made my initial tool order. They've been great to deal with and even handled a little mixup (their 'fault') promptly. What happened was that they sent me two red-handled snips instead of one red & one green. I informed them of the situation and they immediately overnighted another pair of snips. Trouble was, they sent me yet another pair of red-handled ones. So there I was with three red-handled snips and no green ones. The girl with whom I spoke (I can't remember her name) promised to go over to shipping and pick the right ones off the shelf herself. Evidently she did so, because the green-handled snips arrived the next day, along with some cash to cover my shipping the two red-handled ones back to them. Courteous, professional service delivered in a timely manner. I couldn't ask for anything more. That's coming from someone who's been in service-oriented businesses for years and generally finds something lacking almost everywhere these days. The RV community has been a most welcome and refreshing exception to the state of the world as I usually see it. Just call me grumpy and cynical...it wouldn't be the first time... :-) Sorry to have rambled on for so long. Definitely go with Avery's, you won't regret it!! Regards, Ken Balch Ashland, MA RV-8 #81125 rudder & elevators ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6160hp(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Subject: Scott McD. RV count explained?
Scott, Keep up the good work both at Van's and your RV list moments. As I contemplate things going on around me...I sit back in amazement of my completed RV6, now flying and over 14.5 hours TT....and I know it is a rare accomplishment. Oh I had trouble, fits of anger too...it all melts away, when things do make sense and someday the plane just gets done......4.5 years for me. Yet being the most prolific homebuilt ever....I still wish to get an approximate to say mine is 1 of approximately XX? RV6 tail draggers flying in this world. So at @ 2300RV's flying, If you'd be so kind, and if the information is available: Please give us an approximate breakdown, something like: As of 1/2000, Best guesses... RV3 @ Kits under construction__________ @ Completed flying models_________ RV4 @ Kits under construction__________ @ Completed flying models_________ RV6 @ Kits under construction__________ @ Completed flying models_________ RV6A @ Kits under construction__________ @ Completed flying models_________ RV8 @ Kits under construction__________ @ Completed flying models_________ RV8A @ Kits under construction__________ @ Completed flying models_________ and RV9 RV9A if you'd like. Thank you, respectfully. David McManmon RV6 N58DM, as seen at Oswego NY RV forum (and their Web) 1st flight 11/7/99 14.1 TT now ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2000
From: Bob Armstrong <robert.armstrong(at)wcom.com>
Subject: Rudder ??
Ken, The 0 over the 7/16 that you see is the position of the top rivet hole in the R-802 spar. The 8 1/16 inch dimension seems to be missing from revision 4 of drawing 7PP. Thanks to those who provided the information. I sent a note to Van's to let them know. Bob RV-8AQ Rudder -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kbalch1(at)aol.com Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 8:28 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder ?? > In the top left of the drawing there is a measurement of 8 1/16" from the > leading edge of the 803 to the rear of the spar. My copy of drawing 7PP (R4 - 9/22/99) shows a dimension of 0 7/16" in that area. Is that a misprint? Should it read 8 1/16"? Regards, Ken Balch Ashland, MA RV-8 #81125 rudder & elevators ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2000
From: Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: rv6 or rv6a??
> >Tail wheel airplanes are not as hard to fly as the myths that surround them. I thought they were just harder to land and less safe in that phase. Ever read what Wolfgang Langwische said about this topic? 'Stick and Rudder' is a great book. hal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2000
From: Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: New Engine Fuel Pressure
Hi, I've been following this fuel pressure thread with interest. Have they changed the regs so that a fuel pressure gauge is required even on carburetted engines? Some have reported some very low pressures being indicated. If one measures pressure in a pipe and then sinks (consumes) fuel from it at a faster volume rate, the pressure will fall. As the flow increases, the pressure inside the pipe drops. Climbing at full throttle I you would think the pressure would rise as you climb due to the reduction in horsepower output - assuming a normally aspirated engine. Surely, the pressure measuring system balances out changes in ambient pressure. I don't see the point in a fuel pressure gauge in a carb engine if you aren't concerned about it getting close to zero. I suppose it would help diagnosis of a plugged fuel line since the pressure would go up but would you be more inclined to cheer? A leaky fuel line would cause a lower pressure but would you just say "oh, well"? I can't see any real easy way of detecting an incipient failure of the fuel system. Help me here. hal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bryan E. Files" <BFiles(at)corecom.net>
Subject: Re: rv6 or rv6a??
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Stick and rudder is a great book. ----- Original Message ----- From: Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 7:34 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: rv6 or rv6a?? > > > > >Tail wheel airplanes are not as hard to fly as the myths that surround them. > > I thought they were just harder to land and less safe in that phase. > > Ever read what Wolfgang Langwische said about this topic? 'Stick and > Rudder' is a great book. > > hal > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2000
From: Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Min. edge dist question
> >The only requirement for bolts that I know of is that bolts should provide >full bearing surface for the bolt head and nut. This does seem to be the rule. I looked in my old Mechanical Engineering Design by Shigley book. He says roughly that bolts are normally arranged such that edge distance is not a problem! It seems to me, however, that the material being bolted is a consideration calling for a larger edge distance with less strong materials. Bolts do a lot of clamping over rivets. So, calculating the strength of a joint by evaluating the load carrying ability of the section of the parts to be joined is too conservative for bolts. In many machines you can see a bolt thru a part whose hole is a slot rather than a neat round hole. The slot allows for variations in fit at assembly time. The parts are held in position by clamping force, just as a C clamp or cleco does rather than by a precision hole. In the real (non RV) world, perfection has tolerances. Hal Kempthorne - SJC RV6a N7HK at SCK Hangar K3 Debonair N6134V for sale ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bobpaulo(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-6 Kit for sale
if i understand the wing IS NOT pre punched. if that is correct, wayyyyyyyyyyyy to much. don't think u will find many offers for half that. but, goood luck, o btw, not trying to be a smart a_ _ here. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bcbraem(at)home.com.with.ESMTP (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111)
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Subject: Re: rv6 or rv6a??
Anyone interested in updating taildragger advice from 1944 to 1991 should look at "The Compleat (sic) Taildragger Pilot" by Harvey Plourde. I have flown both the -6 and -6A and now own and fly a -6. If you think they're less safe, ask all our northern bush pilot buddies. I will concede that in very strong crosswinds I'd be more comfortable in the tricycle and that draggers do require more attention AFTER landing. Boyd. Hal Kempthorne wrote: > > > > > >Tail wheel airplanes are not as hard to fly as the myths that surround them. > > I thought they were just harder to land and less safe in that phase. > > Ever read what Wolfgang Langwische said about this topic? 'Stick and > Rudder' is a great book. > > hal > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)juno.com
Subject: instrument holes cut with water
Date: Jan 08, 2000
I tried to visit www#Reamettech#com last night & didn't have the Web address. I searched the archives & found that All my posts have trimmed the addresses from my posts. I assume juno#com is doing it. I have put '#' in lieu of dots to see if this will get through. Gary, if this gets through, will you add it to the yeller Pages. Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com ****************************************************************************** old post::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: I used Reamit Tech Co. to watercut the panel for $30.00 They have a web at Chuck Rearic .or. Kevin wright 817-461-8048 FAX = 8049 Arlington, Tx Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com ****************************************************************************** I got 8 bigges on the left with 4 littles above them & 6 small ones ot the right of the radio stack. Now I got all flight & pressures in front of me. All the Gyros go through the 668 on the left, but nothing goes through on the right, Haven't got to the radios yet, but I think they will go through the 668 also. I have all the new Vans gauges & like them. Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com ****************************************************************************** >Hey Don, > >This is a new one on me. Can you give me a quickie definition? >Thanks >Eric ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Hamer" <shamer(at)mscomm.com>
Subject: Re: rv6 or rv6a??
Date: Jan 08, 2000
The difficulty of landing a tailwheel airplane is overexaggerated especially if it's an RV. I happen to know you can successfully land an RV-4 without an operable right rudder pedal. Don't bother asking why I know this! Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Bryan E. Files <BFiles(at)corecom.net> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 10:08 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: rv6 or rv6a?? > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <skydiven(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: rv6 or rv6a??
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Oh god.......now I have something new to have nightmares about. Damn, I can even vividly imagine what I would feel like just before the wheels touched down. Yikes!! Bill > The difficulty of landing a tailwheel airplane is overexaggerated especially > if it's an RV. I happen to know you can successfully land an RV-4 without > an operable right rudder pedal. Don't bother asking why I know this! > Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <skydiven(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: rv6 or rv6a??
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Ahhhhh, to training wheel or not to training wheel that is the question. Like most modern pilots I learned in the spam can tri gear sissy planes. Once I fealt I was a truly proficient pilot, and was all kinds of impressed with my ability to place a cessna on the numbers no matter what the wind did or what distraction friends of mine could be....a very good friend said it was time I learned a thing or two about my 'pilot skills'. Oh yes, I remember the day quite well. Over we walked to Mr Bob Knapp in ZephyrHills. As I walked around the Decathylon, somewhat amused by the fabric is was wrapped in (real planes are aluminum you know), Joe was telling Bob what a good pilot I thought myself to be. My crosswinds were uneventful and I could put it down like a feather even with the rudder on the floor due to crosswind. Bob, an older guy who has flown damn near everything made, just smiled and said 'Ok then, lets teach him to be a pilot.' I smiled and in we climbed. Bob said we were going to do some taxi testing prior to takeoff, just to get me up to speed. I admit, I first thought this was the most rediculous thing I had ever heard of. Taxi testing.....geeze. Well, after Bob saved us from going into the trees a few times I learned that all is not equal when the wheel is moved to the rear. Ok so I got that down fairly quickly (20 minutes of frustration) and off we went into the air. Hey, this decathylon has some power compared to the little cessnas but I'm liking that alot so we buzz around and do some aerobatics and I'm all full of my skill level again. OK hotshot...now lets go land it. Several attempts to crash the plane into the trees or flip it onto its back were saved by Bob (with a grin), and I was trully humbled. I remember bouncing that damn springy gear down the runway like a basketball. Bounce bounce bounce, repeat ....and eventually we would run out of runway and I'd throttle up to make another go of it. My friend Joe sitting on the side of the runway watching nearly laughed himself into a coma. He had just done the same several months earlier and had 10 times my hours and had since become an employed commercial tail dragger pilot (Pilatus Porter). I did eventually get the hang of it of course, and finished my tailwheel signoff in 4.5 hours, but I learned several lessons about my 'skills' and they increased ten fold that weekend. Absolutely the most frustrating, irritating, rewarding fun time of my pilot experience to date. A real love hate relationship that quickly turned to pure love. To answer your question, the taildragger is more of handful and will certainly make you a better pilot. If improving your skills and keeping them at their peak is what you're looking for......lose the training wheel. If you want to be able to slide into that serious crosswind without stopping the conversation with the girlfriend, then keep that silly looking drag inducer up front. As you can tell, I am completely impartial in this decision and can see why people go either way. :) It's all a matter of preference really, just a good enough reason for pilots to tease each other. In all seriousness, and although I'm building a taildragger.......(oh it pains me to say this) the tri-gear is quite likely the safer plane, more forgiving of errors, but hey......flying is mostly about passion to many of us...and there is nothing more inspiring that slipping in that perfect wheel landing in a heavy crosswind while the tri gear guys just shake their heads. :) Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2000
From: "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder ??
Message text written by Ken Balch >Am I interpreting the drawing correctly in that the 3/16" holes are the >forward ones and the 1/8" holes are the rea rmost ones? Yes, the forward one will hole the rudder cables with a AN3 bolt. The rear ones are for the tail wheel springs. > In the top left of the drawing there is a measurement of 8 1/16" from the > leading edge of the 803 to the rear of the spar. >My copy of drawing 7PP (R4 - 9/22/99) shows a dimension of 0 7/16" in that >area. Is that a misprint? Should it read 8 1/16"? I think the 7/16 you see shows the angle that the R-803 is mounted at (the prepunched skins will take care of that angle). The 8 1/16 is shown above that, within the fiberglass tip outline, just below the "Lead counterweight" callout. Scott A. Jordan 80331 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BPattonsoa(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Subject: Re: Pressure Testing Hose
I have a strut pump that multiplies your air pressure X 10. (Used it for the landing gear strut in my glider). I ganged up all the hoses I made using the "extra" fittings purchased in error and pumped the mess up to 1100 psi. The hose gets kind of rigid at that pressure. Had some minor leaks in the fitting tree that connected everything together, but after that was fixed, the pressure held. Then you look at all the hose fittings, wiggle them a little, and verify none are pushing out. Let it sit a while, and if nothing moves, leaks, or explodes, use the hoses. A nitrogen bottle, would work well. Don't even think of using compressed oxygen, the fire might set you back a few years. Any oil on hoses or left over from making the hoses would burn at that pressure. Bruce Patton RV-6A Flying (120 hrs in 6 months) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jdheath(at)premierweb.net (JohnHeath)
Subject: Re: New Engine Fuel Pressure
Date: Jan 08, 1999
This is information extracted from engine "Type Certification Sheets" at the FAA web site: "...LYCOMING" O-320 series E-274 NOTE 2. Fuel pressure limits: Minimum 0.5(1/2)p.s.i.-Maximum 8p.s.i. For gravity feed systems, minimum fuel pressure is 15.0 inches of gasoline differential pressure across the fuel inlet fitting on O-320-D2J. O-340 series E-277 NOTE 2. Fuel pressure limits: Minimum 0.5(1/2)p.s.i.- Maximum 6p.s.i O-360 series E-286 Note 2. Pressure Limits: Fuel - At inlet to carburetor, above carburetor inlet air pressure. Minimum Maximum Bendix PSH-5BD carburetor 9p.s.i. 18p.s.i. Facet (Marvel Schebler) MA-4, HA-6 series carburetor 0.5p.s.i. 8p.s.i. J D Heath Still Dreamin' , Schemin' and I hope Helping RV-8 wan' a be ----- Original Message -----


January 03, 2000 - January 08, 2000

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