RV-Archive.digest.vol-ie
March 16, 2000 - March 23, 2000
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | RV-8 Throttle Quadrant |
Hello RV Builders..
I'm sitting here tonight looking at my beautiful -8A which I now have over
900 hours invested over a 2 year period.
I have tried to work on this machine every day that I'm home from my
traveling job, and almost all weekends.
After taking Henry Gorgas 3 day workshop, and visiting Van's 3 times, I knew
I was ready to tackle this project.
From day one, this airplane has gone together so well, especially with the
assistance of the RV list to forewarn
me of potential problems and of course great service from Van's.
I'm now at the canopy cutting stage, and ready to order the 0-360 A1A/CS w/
74 " spending a good part of my
life's savings. But I keep looking at that throttle quadrant that Van's
supplies, 3 lever, 2 black and one red knobs.
There has got to be a better alternative, but not that $400.00 one I've
seen. I'm really amazed at the third party
equipment that is designed for the RV's. How about some cool looking knobs
that can fit this factory mount ?
BTW, here is my -8A, and most of the equipment purchased or soon to have :
Perfectly smooth wing and fuselage skins, (all backrivited)
Powder coated steel parts, all light Grey
Infinity Grips, both seats, using most all switch positions
Minimal use of Pop rivets, I hate em !!
Bright Yellow SW primer on all parts, (done at AC paint shop)
Fuel tanks by Don London
NAVAID A/P w/ wing tip servo mount
Remote mounted elevator servo on rear deck
P.O.S. AOA
Van's Engine gauges
Garmin GNS 430
King X ponder
Access cover to rear of instrument panel
Rocket wing tips
Andair fuel selector
Aeroflash strobes
My sisters Sarah's leather seats
Hooker 5 point belts
GEM engine monitor
T-34 NAVY paint scheme orange/yellow late "C" version like Bill Pagan's
I'm rambling now, but I'm real proud of this 8. But that throttle quadrant
has got to change.
Come see this plane if you are in the area...
Doug Gardner -8a #80717
Palm Harbor, Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Murphy Jr." <murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us> |
| Subject: | Re: VFR navigation |
You'll want to make sure that you don't become a victum of "automation
complacency". I know of one crash that happened because when the pilot entered
the airport identifyier for Carson City, NV and it didn't show up as valid, he
assumed that the airport was closed. (he should have paid attention in
geography...Nevada's Capital) He crashed for fuel starvation near Dayton, NV.
Fortunately no one was hurt.
Ray Murphy
DWENSING(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> << has
> GPS advanced enough that it can be used in place of VOR's for VFR
> navigation. >>
>
> Eric, the answer is a definite Yes! But, you can still use the VOR
> transmitter locations for navigation with the GPS if you buy a GPS that
> includes the VOR's in the data base. GPS does everything the VOR did and much
> more. You will love it. Hardest thing is to discipline yourself to maintain
> your position on the sectional so you are legal and have a backup should the
> GPS stop functioning for whatever reason.
> Dale Ensing
>
> _
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VFR navigation |
Eric:
I have flown my RV-6 across the United States (coast
to coast) THREE times in the last 2.5 years using GPS
as primary navigation.
I have a VOR and used it as back-up. At no time was
it necessary. Only on the last trip did I have a
handheld GPS to supplement the Apollo 360 and KX-125.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
Flying So. CA, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
For that money go for the Garman 295 GPS handheld. It has color, moving map, a
real kick-ass HSI display and of course- deviation, heading, course and
direction data....along with eta's, speeds & time....all in a shirt-pocket sized
unit with a large color display. I personally would not use the ICS as a door
stop much over installing one in my RV..... Just one persons opinion....
mfaatz(at)avidyne.com on 03/16/2000 02:22:35 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV-List: VFR navigation
>...
>ICS Plus NAV/COM/Glidescope/Localizer/Intercom for less than $1400...
>
>What do you all think?
Bill, I guess "stay away" seems to be the answer here. Look what I found on
the ICS Plus:
"I have an ICS Plus nav-com sold by a well know Aircraft parts house in
Wisconsin. It has gone bad and I am looking for someone to repair it. The
selling party says to just throw it away since the FAA has put a stop order
on any shop fixing it, although the well know parts house is are still
selling the ICS Plus. I have spoke to three shops and the response is the
same, they won't be involved in the repair of this radio. If you can or know
of anyone that may fix this radio Please let me know. Thank You"
- by Perry Testory (ptestory(at)soltec.net)
I found this on the starduster bulletin board which can be found at
http://www.starduster.com/bbarchives.html
Mitch Faatz RV6A - Finish Kit, Setting up new shop
Bedford, MA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> |
**IF** I were making my RV for VFR only I would mount on panel or whatever,
but mount a GPS unit. If I wanted backup in the event no satellites can be
reached I would install a cheap but outstanding used Northstar M1 loran.
IMHO, all the old timey navigation doodads are as obsolete as mechanical
calculators. One big risk is that a $3500 IFR navcom unit might be worth
less in a year or two. But maybe I am optimistic, ADF units are still
selling to someone.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: VFR navigation |
In a message dated 3/16/00 12:26:09 PM Central Standard Time,
n5lp(at)carlsbad.net writes:
<< only one minor drawback of not having a VOR for VFR flight
and that is that there are places where the VOR is the only means of
communication with flight service for opening and closing flight plans. >>
Here is where your handheld radio with VOR comes in......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Stainless Tank Screws (was) Wing Paint |
To all,
Scott Kuebler was digging around the archives and found a post by Terry that used
something I had written. Today, Dennis wrote something similar (below).
After seeing this again, I thought I would provide an update. When I posted that
it kept bugging me that it would be that critical, so I asked one of my structural
engineers here at work about it. What he said was that even though the
stainless structural screws are 68% of the strength of the steel ones, the real
concern is the tear our capability (called lug tear out) of the material that
the screws are holding, in this case, .032 2034-T3. The alum skin would tear
out way before the screw would shear. Just another case of posting something
you think is right, but you don't really understand the whole problem. I guess
that's why they get paid the BIG bucks :-)
So I used stainless MS24694-S5's to hold my tanks on. BTW, I painted my wings
separately and used Randall's method of grinding the head down on a couple of
screws to hold the tank on while painting. Worked great.
Laird RV-6 finishing, finishing, finishing......does it ever end.
SoCal
On the comment about stainless screws. If you can find MS24694-C5 (the C
means corrosion resistant) the tensile strength should be the same. The
MS number designates the spec. I was able to order MS24294-C5's from
Avial. I do get questioned by the occasional builder about using SS
screws in my tanks but I am confident that they meet the original
strength spec of steel screws.
Owens wrote:
>
>
> To all,
> Bob brings up a good point. RV-6 dwg #18 calls out AN509-8-R8 for the tank attachment.
Looking at my Mil Std book shows that AN509 was superseded by MS24694.
The "R" (which was superceded by "S") calls out steel with a min. tensile
strength of 125,000 PSI. The stainless specs out at 85,000 PSI. A strength reduction
of 68%. Just in case you wanted to order some of these the new part #
would be MS24694-S5
>
--
Terry Jantzi
Kitchener ON
RV-6 C-GZRV
and Dennis wrote:
>>> "Dennis Persyk" 03/16 2:05 PM >>>
The screws specified by Van's are AN509-8R8, known to the rest of the world
as MS24694-S4. They have a 125,000 PSI minimum tensile strength. The
stainless equivalent is MS24693C having a tensile of only 80,000 PSI. Given
Van's tendency towards cost savings I'd bet there is good engineering cause
for using the more expensive structural screws in the stated application. I
would not recommend substitution of non-structural stainless screws and
attendant 36% decrease in tensile strength without consultation with Van's,
preferably an engineer at Van's.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | A New Business Started |
Insert drum roll here........
Well, I've gone and done. I've decided to market the Composite Instrument Panel
I developed for my RV-6. I should fit the RV-9 as well.
I don't want to waste a lot of bandwidth here, so if your interested, you can check
out my updated web page on my friends (Thanks Paul!) site for more information.
Click on the RV Panel page.
http://www.planes-wings-things.com/
Happy trails,
Laird RV-6 finishing
SoCal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | cowl options from vans |
Listers,
I'm looking for some advice. I will be ordering a cowl for my RV-4 within
the next couple of weeks and would like to know if anyone has any experience
with the prepreg cowls offered from Vans. I noticed both the fiberglass
cowls and prepreg are offered but at substaintially different costs. Which
is better?
Thanks in advance
Pat Perry
Dallas, PA
RV-4 putting trimmings on engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RAINPOOF(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-9 builders question |
I am in the process of backriviting the trailing edge of the rudder together
and after putting in the first three rivits I noticed the skins do not seem
to be as tight as they should be. The double dimple headed rivits seem to be
tight and do look good but there is that 1/4 inch to the trailing edge that
is going to look bad unless the paint fills the gap. I thought about braking
that edge slightly on both skins. Any thoughts on this? Remember there is a
beveled center strip between the two skins.
Jerry Engel
Waiting wing kit (suppose to be here in a week?)
________________________________________________________________________________
Just got my box of MAC servo stuff from the brown army (UPS) guy. The
included MAC brochure mentions rubberized wing walk material...just wondered
if anybody's used it, seen it, has an opinion yay or nay....
Bruce Huk
RV-4, permanent garage display
boalty(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | RV-9 builders question |
Jerry:
I had the same result on my rudder. On the elevators, I put a VERY slight
bend on the skins with the Avery seam roller which helped a little but they
are still not as good as I would like to see. I thought that I would try
putting some ProSeal into the gaps and clamp the skins tight for a week. My
trailing edges also are not perfectly straight. Everyone else that I have
talked to had the same problems with their riveted trailing edges. Have
any -9 builders out there figured out how to avoid these problems? (My EAA
Tech Counselor told me not to worry about it.)
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A
Empennage fiberglass tips. Wing kit was shipped yesterday.
-----Original Message-----
I am in the process of backriviting the trailing edge of the rudder together
and after putting in the first three rivets I noticed the skins do not seem
to be as tight as they should be. The double dimple headed rivets seem to be
tight and do look good but there is that 1/4 inch to the trailing edge that
is going to look bad unless the paint fills the gap. I thought about braking
that edge slightly on both skins. Any thoughts on this? Remember there is a
beveled center strip between the two skins.
Jerry Engel
Waiting wing kit (suppose to be here in a week?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob DiMeo <dimeob(at)powertel.com.au> |
| Subject: | RV-9 builders question |
Jerry,
I don't know exactly how the "9" is put together but there is a tool you
can get from Cleaveland that will let you ever so slightly bend the edge of
the sheet so that when it's riveted, it lays flat. Other suppliers have
similar tools. I'ts especially useful when overlapping two skins but also
works well when you want an edge to lay down flat. Check out their web site.
The rollers are mounted on a vice grip so you can adjust it to make the
proper crease.
Regards,
Bob
> ----------
> From: RAINPOOF(at)aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 08:56 PM
> To: rvlist(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: RV-9 builders question
>
>
> I am in the process of backriviting the trailing edge of the rudder
> together
> and after putting in the first three rivits I noticed the skins do not
> seem
> to be as tight as they should be. The double dimple headed rivits seem to
> be
> tight and do look good but there is that 1/4 inch to the trailing edge
> that
> is going to look bad unless the paint fills the gap. I thought about
> braking
> that edge slightly on both skins. Any thoughts on this? Remember there is
> a
> beveled center strip between the two skins.
>
>
> Jerry Engel
> Waiting wing kit (suppose to be here in a week?)
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Imfairings(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberlas questikon |
Doug
It's a good idea to take the gellcoat off. The bond is better when you get
glass to glass. If the gellcoat is thick you get a rather brittle interface
between layers.
Questions, call Bob at Fairings Etc. 360 659 5055 or e-mail at
IMFAIRINGS(at)AOL.COM
Bob Snedaker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Garrett" <garrett(at)thesocket.com> |
When applying the RTV to the stiffeners of the rudder or elevator I know
that I want to trying to bond the stiffeners together with the RTV at the
trailing edge to create a kind of connection between the opposing
stiffeners. Do I also want to try to put some of the RTV between the
stiffener and the skin?
Any comments appreciated.
Matt Garrett
Fresno CA
Rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Avionics harness |
I've obtained a used Garmin GPS-150 and a King KT-76A transponder. Trouble is
no harness or tray was proveded for either unit.
Where is a good place to get these items? Should I sheck with local avaiation
shop, Wentworth, ect. , any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks
John Danielson
RV-6 Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob DiMeo <dimeob(at)powertel.com.au> |
| Subject: | Avionics harness |
John,
Your friendly local aviation shop should be able to get your tray and they
should also be able to give you the connectors and pin-outs for your radios.
They would be happy to make up harnesses for you (for a slight fee :
) ).
I did that with a Garmin 155 for may Comanche. (No I did not have them make
up the harness) Now the only problem you may have is the feeling of having
been raped when you find out how much you will get charged for trays.
Bob
RV8 #423
> ----------
> From: JDaniel343(at)aol.com
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 12:34 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Avionics harness
>
>
> I've obtained a used Garmin GPS-150 and a King KT-76A transponder. Trouble
> is
> no harness or tray was proveded for either unit.
> Where is a good place to get these items? Should I sheck with local
> avaiation
> shop, Wentworth, ect. , any ideas would be appreciated.
> Thanks
>
> John Danielson
> RV-6 Fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob DiMeo <dimeob(at)powertel.com.au> |
Matt,
What they really want to try to prevent is the stiffner vibrating. Bonding
the two opposing stiffners together is not really Vans intended. Just put a
nice glob on the end of the stiffner after you've backriveted it and spread
it to the skin so it damps the vibration. Use the recomended RTV as it has
certain properties that Vans has tested that work for the applicaton.
Do a search in the archives and you should find a bunch of information on
the rudder stiffners.
Regards,
Bob
RV8 #423
> ----------
> From: Matt Garrett
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 11:56 PM
> To: rv-list
> Subject: RV-List: RTV - Rudder
>
>
> When applying the RTV to the stiffeners of the rudder or elevator I know
> that I want to trying to bond the stiffeners together with the RTV at the
> trailing edge to create a kind of connection between the opposing
> stiffeners. Do I also want to try to put some of the RTV between the
> stiffener and the skin?
>
> Any comments appreciated.
>
> Matt Garrett
> Fresno CA
> Rudder
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MAC wing walk |
I used it on the wings and on the floor. I thought it was a little pricey
but I really like the stuff.
Bill Pagan
RV-8A N565BW First flight 12/19/99
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>Just got my box of MAC servo stuff from the brown army (UPS) guy. The
>included MAC brochure mentions rubberized wing walk material...just wondered
>if anybody's used it, seen it, has an opinion yay or nay....
>
>Bruce Huk
>RV-4, permanent garage display
>boalty(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | airflow fuel pump/filter location |
I have the airflow performance fuel pump and filter. Do I mount this stuff
in the battery compartment (RV4) or put it on the other side of the firewall?
If in the batt compartment, where and how? On that same note, should I use
AN fittings at the firewall and run flex lines to the engine driven fuel pump
and if so can you recommend a good hose(type and where to order).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Czachorowski <midnight(at)UDel.Edu> |
| Subject: | RV-8 CABIN HEAT BOX |
>HAS ANYONE DETERMINED THE BEST LOCATION AND ORIENTATION FOR THE CABIN HEAT
>BOX IN THE RV-8. I HAVE THE SMALLER ROBBINS TRIANGULAR SHAPED BOX AND AM
>WONDERING IF I SHOULD INSTALL IT BEFORE OR AFTER MOUNTING THE ENGINE (0 360
>A1A). IT SEEMS THAT IT WOULD BE MUCH EASIER NOW THAN AFTER THE ENGINE IS
>ON.
>
> THANKS AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........ED.80127
>
I don't think there is any such thing as a "best" location, but I put it
right about dead center on the bottom so the heat comes out right by my
feet. The heat makes it back into the cabin pretty well. I still don't have
quite enough flow coming through it, but that's simply an issue of where I'm
getting the air from in the first place. I'll fix that one of these days.
There are pics on my web page that show where I put it. Yes, it is much
easier to make that big hole now without the engine or anything else in the
way.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
Did the same. I mounted my cabin heat selector box dead center just high enough
to
clear the adjustable rudder pedals attachment. I wanted the hot air to blow straight
back to the rear passenger, but according to Brian, I may need more flow.
Definitely drill the hole before you mount the engine. Also, if you have a
VM1000
fuel flow transducer, figure out where that will go also.
Joe
#80125 (attaching wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Karl Schilling <k_schilling(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | RE: RV8-List: RV-8 CABIN HEAT BOX |
i put mine in the center also just above the rudder pedal bracket,and also
one just below the baggage floor in the center, this one is athree way so i
can mix cool air with the heat and use it for cool air when it's warm, i am
picking the cool air up on the back left engine baffle. I have a 3" on the
back right engine baffle that goes to my heat muff a large hanlin-wilson
unit w/ 2 2" ducts going to the cabin heat inlets.
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Czachorowski [SMTP:midnight(at)udel.edu]
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 09:03
Subject: RV8-List: RV-8 CABIN HEAT BOX
--> RV8-List message posted by: Joe Czachorowski
>HAS ANYONE DETERMINED THE BEST LOCATION AND ORIENTATION FOR THE CABIN HEAT
>BOX IN THE RV-8. I HAVE THE SMALLER ROBBINS TRIANGULAR SHAPED BOX AND AM
>WONDERING IF I SHOULD INSTALL IT BEFORE OR AFTER MOUNTING THE ENGINE (0
360
>A1A). IT SEEMS THAT IT WOULD BE MUCH EASIER NOW THAN AFTER THE ENGINE IS
>ON.
>
> THANKS AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........ED.80127
>
I don't think there is any such thing as a "best" location, but I put it
right about dead center on the bottom so the heat comes out right by my
feet. The heat makes it back into the cabin pretty well. I still don't have
quite enough flow coming through it, but that's simply an issue of where
I'm
getting the air from in the first place. I'll fix that one of these days.
There are pics on my web page that show where I put it. Yes, it is much
easier to make that big hole now without the engine or anything else in the
way.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
Did the same. I mounted my cabin heat selector box dead center just high
enough to
clear the adjustable rudder pedals attachment. I wanted the hot air to
blow straight
back to the rear passenger, but according to Brian, I may need more flow.
Definitely drill the hole before you mount the engine. Also, if you
have a VM1000
fuel flow transducer, figure out where that will go also.
Joe
#80125 (attaching wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: airflow fuel pump/filter location |
My RV-4 has its fuel filters mounted under the foot compartments (left & right
cigar box sized compartments just rear of the battery area and immediately left
& right of front stick mount...) So left & right tank get its own filter. I
plumed the filter(s) output to a andair fuel selector , to a Vans 35.00$ elect
pump (mounted on a angle) and ran the output to a steel fitting in the firewall.
I used Vans flex line for the whole fuel project......went in easier & looks
real nice with the S/S braid.....costs a little more but that where Earls
supplie saved me big buck on the fittings. I ran a single hose up thru the
battery area...it is mighty tight there with the battery mount, cables,pump and
all. With the single fuel hose things are manageable & easy to get at and
inspect in the battery box area. Finally, where the filters are mounted.....
service is a snap........you can reach them !!
Rvmils(at)aol.com on 03/17/2000 07:43:55 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: airflow fuel pump/filter location
I have the airflow performance fuel pump and filter. Do I mount this stuff
in the battery compartment (RV4) or put it on the other side of the firewall?
If in the batt compartment, where and how? On that same note, should I use
AN fittings at the firewall and run flex lines to the engine driven fuel pump
and if so can you recommend a good hose(type and where to order).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Baker" <gtbaker(at)bright.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid update |
Hi Sam,
Once again, thanks for all of your hard work, both coming up with the
installation of Bob's NavAid and then putting in the time to add the info
and photos to your excellent web site. I think that I am going to install my
NavAid in this manner. I'll take some photos and let you know how the
install works. I have Cleaveland's wing tip attach kit, so your installation
should work well.
Gary Baker
RV-6 (Working on wings)
N4GB (Reserved)
Medina, OH
>
> Two Navaid-related items:
>
> 1) The manual aileron trim is sometimes useful for putting a "load" on
> the Navaid servo. Our RV's have much less friction in the aileron
> circuit than the composite aircraft for which the Navaid was first
> designed. Consequently, it is not unusual for our installations to have
> some "stick jitter" when the Navaid is engaged due to the servo
> overshooting center. This can often be adjusted out of the system, but
> some installations apparently work best if a slight amount of trim is
> applied against the servo to keep it under load. I guess the same "load"
> could be applied with the electric trim, but I do know that the
> technique works well with the manual system. The servo is far stronger
> than necessary to over-ride the trim and will not harm the servo. The
> manual aileron trim works so well in the RV-6 that I can't see any
> advantage to the electric system (except for putting a bigger dent in
> your charge card and taking much longer to install...).
>
> 2) The wing-tip servo installation I posted about recently is airborne
> and working like a charm. Folks, this is the absolute easiest
> installation I have seen for the Navaid servo. If you missed the
> previous post, you can get more info here:
>
> http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/navaid.html
>
> Even though this installation was used for a flying aircraft, I really
> like it for a plane that is still under construction. The servo is
> easily accessed by just removing a wingtip, and the servo cover can be
> removed quickly for servo tweaking. The small diameter pushrod is
> working flawlessly, but I would probably use a 5/8" tube for the pushrod
> if it was going into my plane.
>
> Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 115 hrs)
> "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics harness |
<< dimeob(at)powertel.com.au >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics harness |
<< dimeob(at)powertel.com.au >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Nichols <snichols(at)stateengineering.com> |
| Subject: | Hammerless C-Frame is finally ready |
Listers,
After much toil and trouble, the Hammerless C-frame Modification is
ready. We have had to wait for the Patent Office to do their thing, so
that was a major delay.
I want to offer this kit to everyone on the list for what it costs
us to make , which is $175.00. If you are not familiar with this
modification or want more information then please email me directly.
I will take orders until Monday, March 27. Then I will place the
order for the parts necessary to build the units. It takes 3 to 6 weeks
to get all the parts in.
Please email me at: snichols(at)stateengineering.com if you have any
questions.
Thanks,
Steve Nichols
(RV-4 Wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vincent Himsl <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RTV - Rudder |
Hello,
The RTV is to damp out vibration and only needs to go at the trailing edge
end of each stiffener.
Putting goop between the stiffener and the skin? I didn't and nothing in
the RV8 plans / instructions indicates you should.
Besides, you will get plenty of opportunities to do that when you hit the
gas tanks!!!!!
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8 Tanks finally done
Moscow, ID USA
At 3/16/00 08:56 PM, you wrote:
>
>When applying the RTV to the stiffeners of the rudder or elevator I know
>that I want to trying to bond the stiffeners together with the RTV at the
>trailing edge to create a kind of connection between the opposing
>stiffeners. Do I also want to try to put some of the RTV between the
>stiffener and the skin?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lt. Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VFR navigation |
Eric,
I waited and waited until the price of a handheld GPS got down to $88.oo
then I bought a Magellan Pioneer (3 years ago). I have used it many times
to fly VFR cross-country. In December 99, I flew from Illinois to
California. I had a brand new KLX-135A, GPS-Comm, but you know what, my
little handheld is what I'm use to so I used it and would periodically check
it against the Big Expensive model; and it was always dead bang on the money
and really easy to use. Of course the big bucks model has all kinds of
fancy smancy tricks (some I haven't even learned how to use yet). That's my
2 cents.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cowl options from vans |
> I'm looking for some advice. I will be ordering a cowl for my RV-4 within
> the next couple of weeks and would like to know if anyone has any
experience
> with the prepreg cowls offered from Vans. I noticed both the fiberglass
> cowls and prepreg are offered but at substaintially different costs. Which
> is better?
You get what you pay for. 'Nuff said.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~60 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VFR navigation |
> FWIW, Garmin is coming out with a 12 volt GNC420 . . . it is like the
> GNC430, which is a fantastic unit. It is color GPS plus COMM. Small
size,
> etc.
Anyone hear of a price on this one yet?
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~60 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cowl options from vans |
> > I'm looking for some advice. I will be ordering a cowl for my RV-4
within
> > the next couple of weeks and would like to know if anyone has any
> experience
> > with the prepreg cowls offered from Vans. I noticed both the fiberglass
> > cowls and prepreg are offered but at substaintially different costs.
Which
> > is better?
>
> You get what you pay for. 'Nuff said.
Sorry, that was probably a bit terse there. The long version is: the prepeg
cowls are substantially lighter, stiffer, straighter, hold their shape
better, and are all around better. Due to the lighter weight up front you
may run into a CG issue with the -4 unless you have a heavier engine/prop
combo. I don't know how much lighter the prepeg -4 cowl is, but the -6
prepeg is something like 9 pounds lighter than the polyester. I don't think
they even offer the polyester cowl for the -6 any more.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~60 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid update |
--- Gary Baker wrote:
>
> Hi Sam,
>
> Once again, thanks for all of your hard work, both coming up with the
> installation of Bob's NavAid and then putting in the time to add the
> info
> and photos to your excellent web site. I think that I am going to
> install my
> NavAid in this manner. I'll take some photos and let you know how the
> install works. I have Cleaveland's wing tip attach kit, so your
> installation should work well.
>
> Gary Baker
Dittos to Sam on his excellent site!
I have a concern about this installation: I have not yet but have been
planning to mount the Aeroflash strobe power supplies out there on the
tips. Had planned on the Navaid going under the right seat. Now this
very enticing installation method comes along and I'm wondering if it
won't be too much weight out there on the wing tip.
Relatively speaking, of course.
Have to remember moment arms and all that.
I have to wonder if I'm setting the bird up to be a little right-wing
heavy which would necessitate a little aileron trim which would
increase drag and slow me down. Can't have that!
:)
Could be insignificant in the big scheme of things, I don't know.
1 pound at 12 feet? How much trim to counter-act....
Hmmm...
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Pushrod ? |
The tubes are 4130 steel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Pushrod ? |
Yes, the small 18inch tubes are 4130. The other tube is aluminum about 7 feet
and 1.5 inch in diameter. and it runs from the control ctick to the aileron
belcrank
HCRV6(at)aol.com on 03/17/2000 12:24:10 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aileron Pushrod ?
The tubes are 4130 steel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Tire valve access door |
Fellow Listers:
Has anyone constructed a tire valve access door on the old style 1-piece
wheel pants? I have an off-List friend who needs some advise and is hoping
someone on the List could outline the procedure and/or have a photo.
Thanks
Doug
MN Wing
===========
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VFR navigation |
If you want color moving map on the inexpensive side check out this system.
<http://www.controlvision.com/map.htm>
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: Lt. Chuck Rabaut <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Date: Friday, March 17, 2000 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: VFR navigation
>
>Eric,
>
> I waited and waited until the price of a handheld GPS got down to
$88.oo
>then I bought a Magellan Pioneer (3 years ago). I have used it many times
>to fly VFR cross-country. In December 99, I flew from Illinois to
>California. I had a brand new KLX-135A, GPS-Comm, but you know what, my
>little handheld is what I'm use to so I used it and would periodically
check
>it against the Big Expensive model; and it was always dead bang on the
money
>and really easy to use. Of course the big bucks model has all kinds of
>fancy smancy tricks (some I haven't even learned how to use yet). That's
my
>2 cents.
>
> Chuck
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HAROLD1339(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tire valve access door |
I cut a small round hole in the wheel pant and used a plug to close the hole.
Makes airing up so much easier.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tire valve access door |
> Has anyone constructed a tire valve access door on the old style 1-piece
> wheel pants?
I drilled a 1" hole in mine at the position where the stem is. The hole is
covered with push-in metal multi tabbed "button" available at most hardware
stores. Sorry, but I can't think of the actual name for the "button".
This is a big enough hole to stick in a straight air chuck and a straight
pressure gauge. You usually have to wheel the plane back or forward a few
inches to line it up.
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Hall" <robjhall(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tire valve access door |
> Has anyone constructed a tire valve access door on the old style 1-piece
> wheel pants? I have an off-List friend who needs some advise and is
hoping
> someone on the List could outline the procedure and/or have a photo.
>
Drill a hole ( mine is 1" dia.) in the fairing to line up with the valve
stem. Use a pop-in cap, available at hardware/building supply stores, to
cover it when not in use. A valve extension is needed to make it work.
Everything needed is available from Cleaveland Tools,
http://www.cleavelandtool.com/catsub1.html.
Bob Hall
RV-6, Colorado Springs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV8-List: RV-8 CABIN HEAT BOX |
Anybody routing hot air for defrosting purposes, the windshield that is,
not the toes.
Gert
Karl Schilling wrote:
>
>
> i put mine in the center also just above the rudder pedal bracket,and also
> one just below the baggage floor in the center, this one is athree way so i
> can mix cool air with the heat and use it for cool air when it's warm, i am
> picking the cool air up on the back left engine baffle. I have a 3" on the
> back right engine baffle that goes to my heat muff a large hanlin-wilson
> unit w/ 2 2" ducts going to the cabin heat inlets.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Czachorowski [SMTP:midnight(at)udel.edu]
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 09:03
> To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV8-List: RV-8 CABIN HEAT BOX
>
> --> RV8-List message posted by: Joe Czachorowski
>
> >HAS ANYONE DETERMINED THE BEST LOCATION AND ORIENTATION FOR THE CABIN HEAT
> >BOX IN THE RV-8. I HAVE THE SMALLER ROBBINS TRIANGULAR SHAPED BOX AND AM
> >WONDERING IF I SHOULD INSTALL IT BEFORE OR AFTER MOUNTING THE ENGINE (0
> 360
> >A1A). IT SEEMS THAT IT WOULD BE MUCH EASIER NOW THAN AFTER THE ENGINE IS
> >ON.
> >
> > THANKS AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........ED.80127
> >
> I don't think there is any such thing as a "best" location, but I put it
> right about dead center on the bottom so the heat comes out right by my
> feet. The heat makes it back into the cabin pretty well. I still don't have
> quite enough flow coming through it, but that's simply an issue of where
> I'm
> getting the air from in the first place. I'll fix that one of these days.
>
> There are pics on my web page that show where I put it. Yes, it is much
> easier to make that big hole now without the engine or anything else in the
> way.
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
>
> Did the same. I mounted my cabin heat selector box dead center just high
> enough to
> clear the adjustable rudder pedals attachment. I wanted the hot air to
> blow straight
> back to the rear passenger, but according to Brian, I may need more flow.
>
> Definitely drill the hole before you mount the engine. Also, if you
> have a VM1000
> fuel flow transducer, figure out where that will go also.
>
> Joe
> #80125 (attaching wings)
>
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scot Stambaugh <stambaug(at)qualcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VFR navigation |
It is a good deal for color moving map but still kind of pricy at approx.
$900 by the time you buy the PDA, Garmin GPS-35, serial port cable,
software and yoke mount. The price comes down if you buy the cheaper GPS.
Their web site is very complete and informative. The nice thing is that
when you are out of the airplane you can use the PDA for other things such
as schedule, address book and a pile of other software applications that
are coming on the market for Windows CE based PDA's.
Scot
>
>If you want color moving map on the inexpensive side check out this system.
><http://www.controlvision.com/map.htm>
>
>Greg
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Lt. Chuck Rabaut <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
>To: RV-4
>Date: Friday, March 17, 2000 10:16 AM
>Subject: Re: RV-List: VFR navigation
>
>
>>
>>Eric,
>>
>> I waited and waited until the price of a handheld GPS got down to
>$88.oo
>>then I bought a Magellan Pioneer (3 years ago). I have used it many times
>>to fly VFR cross-country. In December 99, I flew from Illinois to
>>California. I had a brand new KLX-135A, GPS-Comm, but you know what, my
>>little handheld is what I'm use to so I used it and would periodically
>check
>>it against the Big Expensive model; and it was always dead bang on the
>money
>>and really easy to use. Of course the big bucks model has all kinds of
>>fancy smancy tricks (some I haven't even learned how to use yet). That's
>my
>>2 cents.
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Harris" <johnh(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: how do I changed my N# |
Carey,
Send an application and $10 as if the first one didn't exist. I think you
can reserve as many as you want. Just don't renew the first one at the end
of a year. I just went through this, sort of, and "gave" my old number to
another builder by sending a note to FAA.
John Harris
Cary, NC
RV9A N922JH (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JhnstnIII(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Rain off tip-up canopy |
Listers--I like the tip-up, but am wondering if rainwater will run behind the
instrument panel when it is tipped up. Is this a problem, and if so, is
there a solution? Please advise. Thanks. --LeRoy Johnston, Westerville, OH,
empennage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rain off tip-up canopy |
I haven't had any trouble. I have seen tip-ups with waterproof material
fashioned between the forward former to the instrument panel.
Have Great Day!
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
Is there a "list" of hand held GPSs which are compatible with Navaid and do
some GPS brands work better than others with Navaid?
I asked Jim Ham of Porcine who developed the Smartcoupler for the Navaid the same
question--his reply was that of all the units that work well with the Navaid
he knows that Garmin and Skyforce have "turn anticipation" and wasn't sure
if any other units had this feature or not. I understand there is an altitude
hold device currently under development as a separate unit.
Dave Ford
RV6 wings
Navaid ordered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tire valve access door |
I have a 3/4 inch hole with a hole "plug", held in with a small screw
throught the center, screwed into a aluminum plate with a nut plate on the
back. Plate is lose, and falls off when you take out the screw. I have a
marks on the tire rim that tell me how close I am to having the valve line
up with the hole. How do you get the stem cap off? A short piece of rubber
hose that fits snug over the cap. Then two extensions (from Checkers or
Auto Zone: get the metal ones. The plastic ones are junk) on top of each
other through the hole on the stem. Piece of cake. I have two setups: one
for the shop, one for the onboard tool box. Never know when a tire is going
to get low...
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
| From: | "John Sheppard" <jtshepp(at)lvnworth.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV8-List: RV-8 CABIN HEAT BOX |
The T-37 uses hot air routed into the canopy bow and out drilled holes for
defrost. I haven't started the fuselage kit - don't know if it's possible
with the RV8.
John Sheppard (One tank done - no leaks!)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gert
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: RV8-List: RV-8 CABIN HEAT BOX
Anybody routing hot air for defrosting purposes, the windshield that is,
not the toes.
Gert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gusndale(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV8-List: RV-8 CABIN HEAT BOX |
In a message dated 3/17/00 3:36:31 PM Pacific Standard Time, gert(at)execpc.com
writes:
<< Anybody routing hot air for defrosting purposes, the windshield that is,
not the toes. >>
Hi Gert,
I'm putting a couple of 2inch holes through my glare shield up near the
front of the windshield with small box fans positioned under them to push the
warm air trapped under the instrument panel up onto the windshield. No
ductwork needed. Others have done this and say it is quite effective.
regards,
Dale Wotring
RV6A Finish kit
Vancouver, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tire valve access door |
Camlock makes a 1" dia. s/s spring-loaded door for this purpose. Got mine
from Aircraft Spruce. Works quite well. A little more expensive than a
pop-in plug but a little more convenient too.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~60 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SALNED71(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-8 VM1000 & AIRFLOW PERFORMANCE INSTALLATION |
MY ENGINE IS NOT MOUNTED YET. I'M INSTALLING THE 0360A1A WITH THE
AIRFLOW PERFORMANCE INJECTION. WHAT ARE THE DO'S AND DONT'S FOR INSTALLING
THE VM1000? IS THERE A BETTER PLACE FOR THE DPU WITH ALL THOSE WIRES COMING
OUT? IT SEEMS LIKE IT WILL BE QUITE CROWDED AND MESSY. I DO NOT HAVE THE
E100. SHOULD I BE PUTTING ANYTHING ON THE ENGINE BEFORE I MOUNT IT. IS THERE
A BEST PLACE FOR THE FUEL FLOW TRANSDUCER? ALL I'VE DONE IS READ THE MANUALS
SO FAR AND WOULD APPRECIATE ANY HELP FROM ANYONE WHO'S BEEN THERE AND DONE
THAT.
THANKS AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...................ED
KOWALSKI...#80127
WILMINGTON, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Encoding altimeter |
What is a encoding altimeter?
Does it take the place of a Blind Encoder for your transponder?
Thanks
John Danielson
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Encoding altimeter |
| From: | "Denis Walsh" <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net> |
Encoding altimeter is a combo instrument which would take the place of both
the altimeter and the blind encoder. It costs a lot more than a 'regular'
altimeter plus a blind encoder which most RV folks buy. There may be a
weight saving with the high price version, but it couldn't be much.
Denis L.(Bum) Walsh
----------
>From: JDaniel343(at)aol.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Encoding altimeter
>Date: Sat, Mar 18, 2000, 9:24
>
>
>What is a encoding altimeter?
>Does it take the place of a Blind Encoder for your transponder?
>
>Thanks
>John Danielson
>Fuselage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 VM1000 & AIRFLOW PERFORMANCE INSTALLATION |
Ed,
I also have a VM1000 with the O360 in a RV-8. I mounted the fuel transducer
off the fuel pump to the carb. From the fuel pump to the transducer is a
5"piece of hose. This hose is straight. Then a 45 degree AN fitting, then a
45 degree hose end fitting with hose to carb. The trans. will need support. I
attached a plate to two of the screw studs (top ones), and an aluminum angle
from the plate up towards the oil cooler. The angle will attach to the
back-inside-rear of the oil cooler. (obviously I have the oil cooler on the
rear left baffle area. If you have questions please call me 901 756 7702.
Also, I have found a source for the pins on the 'blackbox'so you can keep the
wires attached, but remove the 'plug
d Storo RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Throttle Quadrant |
| From: | b green <rvinfo(at)juno.com> |
I don't believe that Steen Aero Labs has a web site. Last I knew they
didn't even take master card. They can be reached at 828/652-7382.
I had a three lever arangement in my Skybolt an took it out and replaced
it with one lever for the prop with a 1" x 3" solid aluminum handle with
verniers for the prop and mixture and am very pleased with that setup.
Everyone is different, but I liked being able to find the throttle
quickly with out haveing to look for it.
Bruce Green
RV-8 plans
writes:
>
> Des anybody have a web address for Steen Aero? the Yeller pages
> show only
> a phone number. I'll call them if nobody on the list can help.
>
> scot
>
>
> >
> >George:
> >
> >Good post about the throttle quadrant - my sentiments exactly!
> Here's what
> >I've come to - the Beechurst quadrant is too big without modifying
> the
> >surrounding metalwork on the airplane (also it's very pricey). They
> do have
> >a new smaller one which may fit - but their bezel won't fit it. I
> like their
> >bezel plate - it has all the labels silk screened on.
> >
> >Steen Aero Labs make an excellent looking throttle quadrant (check
> the
> >archives). They are copies of world war two quadrants and the
> warbird guys
> >love them. A couple of EAA members told me that they are good
> quality. Up
> >until now they've only had reversing action quadrants available.
> This month
> >they're taking delivery of some direct action models. The two lever
> is $225
> >and the three lever is $250. The big question is whether it could
> be made to
> >fit. From the photos I have it appears that the unit mounts the on
> the left
> >side (looking forward) whereas we want the right side to be the
> mounting
> >surface.There's a lot of ingenuity on this list & perhaps someone
> could
> >figure it out.
> >
> >Someone suggested fitting Piper or Cessna knobs to Van's quadrant.
> This
> >would improve matters, but a handsome bezel plate would dress it up
> even
> >more. Perhaps Steve Davis at Panel Pilot would be willing to make
> something
> >we could use.
> >
> >Phil, 80691
> >Throttle quadrant, fuel valve, baggae bin
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Encoding altimeter |
Yes but they are expensive and not as reliable as your altimeter, blind
encoder.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: <JDaniel343(at)aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 10:24 AM
Subject: RV-List: Encoding altimeter
>
> What is a encoding altimeter?
> Does it take the place of a Blind Encoder for your transponder?
>
> Thanks
> John Danielson
> Fuselage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard White" <chiefs(at)teleport.com> |
Anybody have the phone number for Panel Pilot?
Dick White
RV-8QB systems
Newport, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vince Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
I was planning to use my aircraft for "minimal" instrument work, filing to
VFR On Top, shooting an occasional ILS or localizer approach when the
ceilings were a little low due to haze and such. That being said, I didn't
want to put a lot of money into IFR avionics. I was originally considering
one VOR/ILS receiver and a VFR or handheld GPS. With all the talk of
shutting down the VOR system it sounds like this approach won't allow me to
file for VFR On Top in the near future.
I could possibly get away with buying an enroute approved GPS but what
about shooting approaches? Will the on airport VORs remain for approaches
after the rest of the system is moth balled? I sure don't want to buy an
approach certified GPS. Any ideas or speculations out there?
Vince
RV-8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Encoding altimeter |
>
>What is a encoding altimeter?
>Does it take the place of a Blind Encoder for your transponder?
Yes . . . but the delta dollars to ADD encoding to
an altimeter is generally greater than the price of
a blind encoder.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Question About B&C Alternators... |
Hi Listers,
I was just browsing the ACS catalog, specifically looking at the B&C L60
Alternator. I have a few questions regarding this unit.
Will it fit under the cowl of an RV-4 with an O360-A1A?
For this installation, do I need the "Case Mount" or the
"Boss Mount"?
I already have the B&C LR-2 regulator. Are there any other
considerations I should be aware of?
Thanks for the help!
Matt Dralle
RV-4 #1763, N442RV to be...
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Our e-mail server crashed |
Our e-mail server was out from Wednesday night last until late
Friday afternoon. Items directed to me were NOT spooled. Letters
direct to me during that interval went into the black
hole of cyberspace . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | More on: Question About B&C Alternators... |
>--------------
>Hi Listers,
>
>I was just browsing the ACS catalog, specifically looking at the B&C
>L60 Alternator. I have a few questions regarding this unit.
>
> Will it fit under the cowl of an RV-4 with an O360-A1A?
>
> For this installation, do I need the "Case Mount" or the
> "Boss Mount"?
>
>I already have the B&C LR-2 regulator. Are there any other
>considerations I should be aware of?
>
>Thanks for the help!
>
>Matt Dralle
>RV-4 #1763, N442RV to be...
>--------------
I should also mention that I have a CS Prop with the "Short Cowling".
Matt
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Step Installation |
> The instructions for the step kit from Van's indicate using AN-470 rivits.
> Is there any reason not to countersink the steel plate and use AN-426's?
I mounted steps on both sides from the inside. I dimpled the skin and
countersunk the steel plate. I then built fairings around where the shaft of
the steps come through the skin. They look way better than the photos that
came with the install kit.
Norman Hunger
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
What does The List recommend as the best deal on electric gyros for both the
DG and the Attitude?
What company makes them and where are they available?
Thank-you,
Norman Hunger
RV6A, Delta, BC.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re:RV-8 REAR SEAT HEAT |
>
> A gent from Canada mentioned heated seats a couple weeks ago: carbon
fibers
> built into the seats themselves -- just like car seats. My wife/copilot
> likes this idea lot. Anyone else?
She is going to like winter flying with you even more if you install the
heated seat option.
I'm the guy that first posted this idea. The heated seats are carbon fiber
mats (very thin) that are placed on top of the seat foam just under the seat
fabric. They come with an elegant low/high/off lighted switch and weigh next
to nothing. They need 4 amps 12VDC per seat if you use the mats at full
size. Each seat kit comes with two mats and one switch. You put one mat on
the seat bottom and the other on the seat back. They can be trimmed down in
size and will then use less juice but RV6 builders will use them full size.
They are worth about $150 USD per seat. They turn your entire backside
toasty warm. If you have never sat in a car with heated seats then go down
to your local Cadillac dealer and try them out for free. If you want to
locate them in your area I would suggest looking in your yellow pages under
Automobile Upholstery. Look for a seat cover outfit. Ask if they retro-fit
new cars to the heated seat option. If you draw a blank then email me.
Tailwinds!
Norman Hunger
RV6A, Delta, BC.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid update |
Mike Thompson wrote:
>
>
> --- Gary Baker wrote:
> >
> > Hi Sam,
> >
> > Once again, thanks for all of your hard work, both coming up with the
> > installation of Bob's NavAid and then putting in the time to add the
> > info
> > and photos to your excellent web site. I think that I am going to
> > install my
> > NavAid in this manner. I'll take some photos and let you know how the
> > install works. I have Cleaveland's wing tip attach kit, so your
> > installation should work well.
> >
> > Gary Baker
>
> Dittos to Sam on his excellent site!
>
> I have a concern about this installation: I have not yet but have been
> planning to mount the Aeroflash strobe power supplies out there on the
> tips. Had planned on the Navaid going under the right seat. Now this
> very enticing installation method comes along and I'm wondering if it
> won't be too much weight out there on the wing tip.
> Relatively speaking, of course.
> Have to remember moment arms and all that.
>
> I have to wonder if I'm setting the bird up to be a little right-wing
> heavy which would necessitate a little aileron trim which would
> increase drag and slow me down. Can't have that!
> :)
>
> Could be insignificant in the big scheme of things, I don't know.
> 1 pound at 12 feet? How much trim to counter-act....
> Hmmm...
A whole lot less than running the fuel tanks a few gallons out of
balance........
I flew with Bob this morning and couldn't tell that his right wing was
dragging any lower than usual.
Of course, after eating pancakes at Moontown airport, his whole plane
was riding a little lower.....
Seriously, the guys who are installing electric aileron trim are hanging
more weight out on a wing tip than the Navaid servo and I haven't heard
any of them complaining about flying slowly. Then there are the builders
who run heavy coax out to a wing-tip antenna.......not to mention the
guys with only one landing light......
Sam Buchanan
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | dralle(at)matronics.com |
Oops...perhaps I have you confused with someone else...I thought you had a
Cato three blade.
Bill
Orlando
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 2:39 PM
Subject: RV-List: More on: Question About B&C Alternators...
>
>
> >--------------
> >Hi Listers,
> >
> >I was just browsing the ACS catalog, specifically looking at the B&C
> >L60 Alternator. I have a few questions regarding this unit.
> >
> > Will it fit under the cowl of an RV-4 with an O360-A1A?
> >
> > For this installation, do I need the "Case Mount" or the
> > "Boss Mount"?
> >
> >I already have the B&C LR-2 regulator. Are there any other
> >considerations I should be aware of?
> >
> >Thanks for the help!
> >
> >Matt Dralle
> >RV-4 #1763, N442RV to be...
> >--------------
>
>
> I should also mention that I have a CS Prop with the "Short Cowling".
>
> Matt
>
>
> --
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Gyros |
> What does The List recommend as the best deal on electric gyros for both
the
> DG and the Attitude?
> What company makes them and where are they available?
>
> Thank-you,
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A, Delta, BC.
Hi Norman,
I just went through this. There are several manufacturers of electric gyros
(artificial horizon and directional gyro), but RC Allen seems to be by far
and away the most popular. There is only one model of each, other than lit
or unlit or 14 or 28v, and they are widely carried by most avionics dealers
including Aircraft Spruce. The artificial horizon is a model RCA 26AK-3, and
the DG is the RCA 15AK-2.
Pacific Coast Avionics where I bought mine has them in their catalog which
you can download from their web site at www.pacavionic.com/. You shouldn't
pay over $3,000 for the pair. This is expensive for sure, but it allows you
to completely eliminate the vacuum system, and ever having to worry about
replacing the pumps which all seem to go about 600 hours. If the vanes
self-destruct dramatically it can send debris into the instruments and
damage them as well. Going with electric eliminates all of this. Very easy
to simply turn them off also. Think of the firewall penetrations you'll be
eliminating!
Two things to remember; be sure and order the multiconnector plugs, they
don't come with them for some crazy reason, and remember that you need the 8
degree tilt modification, which is free as long as you specify it up front.
ACS has them for $1,495 ea in the catalog, PCA is $1,595 (lit versions $100
more each), yet they advertise
"lowest price". Needless to say you'll need to do some negotiating. I think
$3k including the connectors and tilt is a pretty fair deal.
Lastly, there is much info in the archives on the relative merits of
electric vs. vacuum gyros, or whether to have them at all. I am very pleased
with my decision and plan although I do admit it is a bit of a luxury that
could easily be postponed until after the plane is flying.
Hope this helps,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, plumbing & wiring
www.pacifier.com/~randyl
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Riedlinger" <priedlinger(at)triad.rr.com> |
| Subject: | For Sale - RV-6A |
I REALLY hate to do this but I have a bad case of
"the-family-and-work-is-taking-up-all-of-my-building-time" so I am going to
let my RV-6A project go.
Empennage - Completed
Wing - Completed with Ductworks lights in both wings, and fuel tanks
professionally done by Don London
Fuselage - just started, firewall completed, formers started. Fuse options
include: sliding canopy option, electric flaps,factory recessed firewall,
manual aileron trim kit, fresh air vent system, left and right external
step, dual brake kit, static air kit. ** brand new, never used Sport Aero
(Frey) fuselage jig with birdcage option.
Miscellaneous Options:
Whelan deluxe lighting system
Orndorff Construction tapes - full set from empennage - finishing kit
All completed parts have been primed with Dupont Variprime.
I am located in Greensboro, North Carolina (so is the project ;>)
Asking $12,500
You can reach me online at either of the two listed email addresses or call
I have pictures of the plane I can email to show workmanship and stage of
completion
Once my spare time become more available I have made a personal vow to start
AND COMPLETE another RV!
Paul Riedlinger
priedlinger(at)triad.rr.com
paulried(at)ornaprod.com
The Ornamental Group Of Companies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com> |
| Subject: | Sam James cowl project update |
8ers,
Many of you have expressed an interest in the plenum/cowl project I have
undertaken. Just wanted to let you know that I received my cowl from Sam
James and will be documenting the project on my web site at
http://home.pacifier.com/~randyl/pgCowlPlenum.htm
I only hope I haven't bitten off more than I can chew! At any rate, it
should be interesting.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500
www.pacifier.com/~randyl
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
rv8list(at)onelist.com
Rick,
No, I haven't written anything up yet but will do a quick summary of
what I did. Write if you need more detail. A drawing might work
better.
I read the wing tip mount letters and considered it but I wanted it
inside if at all possible. I had already closed out the wing so didn't
even consider the "near the bellcrank" option. I had also read about
someone who put it under the right side console in front of the spar
carry-through but didn't want the pushrod running in front of the spar
where it could be kicked or otherwise damaged. That left the underfloor
location.
I already had the elec. aileron trim in place per plans and had located
my MAC servo controllers (reqd. for dual trim switch setup and variable
speed control of the servos) just aft of the trim servo with a similar
mounting on the floor beam. All this boils down to the fact that the
only location left was on the right side below the floor right behind
the footwell.
Other issues that came up with this location:
* The Navaid servo box doesn't have a flat bottom (screw heads) so it
must be elevated from the outside skin.
* It must be far enough aft to clear the footwell.
* It must be far enough forward to make it possible to remove the cover
for mx after removing the footwell section.
* The pushrod needs to penetrate the floor beam web in an area where its
already got a few holes in it. (i.e. the aft vent duct tubing and the
ail. trim pushrod). Even though a beam such as this can accept holes in
the center of the web I didn't want to weaken it too much and, of
course, a straight shot from the controller (swing arm mounted on the
aft side) would penetrate right through the raised embossed stiffening
thing (what are those called?)
Here is how I handeled all of this:
Mounted the servo box on an .040 plate as far outboard as possible just
clear (aft) of the footwell with the servo arm on the aft side. It just
clears the horizontal / side-to-side floor support for pulling off the
lid. Used the top screw hold-down method for the servo box as mentioned
in the limited installation guidelines.
The plate has countersunk nutplates installed on top with a #8 screw
permanently threaded in from the bottom. The servo box sits on top of
the nutplates (to raise it up) using nuts screwed down onto the
permanent screw. The plate is riveted to the outside skin. (hated to
penetrate the fuselage skin but it came out great) You'll need to use
the pop rivet dimple die on the fuselage skin and a bucking partner to
rivet.
The servo arm pushes a rod which I bent slightly in an S pattern to move
its passage through the floor rib forward to a clear area. Use a tube
bender. Play with a coathanger to get the right angles.
The pushrod connects via the saddle bracket under the aileron torque
tube using the furthest hole on the servo arm.
I can't believe I wrote so much. Hope its clear.
Joe
[207.46.181.60]) by mailsorter-101-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-d/ms.dwm.v7+dul2)
From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Navaid
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:30:57 -0700
Joe . . . I'm building an 8A and would like your thoughts re: where to put
the Navaid servo. I've seen the write-up on installation at the wing tip.
If this is something you print and mail, my mailing address is:
Rick Jory
c/o Sandhill Scientific, Inc.
8955 So. Ridgeline Blvd. #500
Highlands Ranch, CO 80126
Thanks in advance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
| Subject: | Re: VFR navigation |
Leave out the VOR.
mailsorter-101-9.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/ms.dwm.v7+dul2)
From: ENewton57(at)aol.com
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:07:27 EST
Subject: RV-List: VFR navigation
Hi Listers,
I haven't flown much cross country since the 1980's. My question is - has
GPS advanced enough that it can be used in place of VOR's for VFR navigation.
I am thinking of going with a GPS/COM unit and leaving out the NAV-COM
stuff. Big wieght and cost savings. I'm happy as a clam just tooling around
in good weather and I don't plan on doing any IFR flying.
Thanks,
Eric RV-6a Long Beach, MS (empennage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV8-List: RV-8 CABIN HEAT BOX |
No hot air but putting in a small 12V fan like in computers to blow on
the windshield. Should be enough residual heat behind he panel to do
the job.
mailsorter-101-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-d/ms.dwm.v7+dul2)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:17:21 -0600
From: Gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: RV8-List: RV-8 CABIN HEAT BOX
Anybody routing hot air for defrosting purposes, the windshield that is,
not the toes.
Gert
Karl Schilling wrote:
>
>
> i put mine in the center also just above the rudder pedal bracket,and also
> one just below the baggage floor in the center, this one is athree way so i
> can mix cool air with the heat and use it for cool air when it's warm, i am
> picking the cool air up on the back left engine baffle. I have a 3" on the
> back right engine baffle that goes to my heat muff a large hanlin-wilson
> unit w/ 2 2" ducts going to the cabin heat inlets.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Czachorowski [SMTP:midnight(at)udel.edu]
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 09:03
> To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV8-List: RV-8 CABIN HEAT BOX
>
> --> RV8-List message posted by: Joe Czachorowski
>
> >HAS ANYONE DETERMINED THE BEST LOCATION AND ORIENTATION FOR THE CABIN HEAT
> >BOX IN THE RV-8. I HAVE THE SMALLER ROBBINS TRIANGULAR SHAPED BOX AND AM
> >WONDERING IF I SHOULD INSTALL IT BEFORE OR AFTER MOUNTING THE ENGINE (0
> 360
> >A1A). IT SEEMS THAT IT WOULD BE MUCH EASIER NOW THAN AFTER THE ENGINE IS
> >ON.
> >
> > THANKS AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........ED.80127
> >
> I don't think there is any such thing as a "best" location, but I put it
> right about dead center on the bottom so the heat comes out right by my
> feet. The heat makes it back into the cabin pretty well. I still don't have
> quite enough flow coming through it, but that's simply an issue of where
> I'm
> getting the air from in the first place. I'll fix that one of these days.
>
> There are pics on my web page that show where I put it. Yes, it is much
> easier to make that big hole now without the engine or anything else in the
> way.
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
>
> Did the same. I mounted my cabin heat selector box dead center just high
> enough to
> clear the adjustable rudder pedals attachment. I wanted the hot air to
> blow straight
> back to the rear passenger, but according to Brian, I may need more flow.
>
> Definitely drill the hole before you mount the engine. Also, if you
> have a VM1000
> fuel flow transducer, figure out where that will go also.
>
> Joe
> #80125 (attaching wings)
>
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 VM1000 & AIRFLOW PERFORMANCE INSTALLATION |
Ed, your all upper case letters are killing me.
Install as much stuff on your engine as possible before mounting it. I
put on exhaust, back and side baffeling, EGT and CHT probes, prop gov,
starter, alternator, remote oil filter adapter and inverted oil
fittings. You will end up putting the engine on and off a few times so
don't sweat it too much. You need the engine on to figure out the
firewall but the engine off to do the firewall.
mailsorter-101-11.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/ms.dwm.v7+dul2)
From: SALNED71(at)aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:20:39 EST
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 VM1000 & AIRFLOW PERFORMANCE INSTALLATION
MY ENGINE IS NOT MOUNTED YET. I'M INSTALLING THE 0360A1A WITH THE
AIRFLOW PERFORMANCE INJECTION. WHAT ARE THE DO'S AND DONT'S FOR INSTALLING
THE VM1000? IS THERE A BETTER PLACE FOR THE DPU WITH ALL THOSE WIRES COMING
OUT? IT SEEMS LIKE IT WILL BE QUITE CROWDED AND MESSY. I DO NOT HAVE THE
E100. SHOULD I BE PUTTING ANYTHING ON THE ENGINE BEFORE I MOUNT IT. IS THERE
A BEST PLACE FOR THE FUEL FLOW TRANSDUCER? ALL I'VE DONE IS READ THE MANUALS
SO FAR AND WOULD APPRECIATE ANY HELP FROM ANYONE WHO'S BEEN THERE AND DONE
THAT.
THANKS AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...................ED
KOWALSKI...#80127
WILMINGTON, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "crburgan" <crburgan(at)wa.freei.net> |
| Subject: | HALF-PRICE RV Tool Package |
HALF-PRICE RV Tool Package. Great way to save hundreds.
ALL tools have very little or no use (some still new)
and are in excellent condition. List below contains most
tools in Cleaveland or Avery empennage tool kit, plus
others. Bought all tools new in early 1999 from
Cleaveland and Avery. Total price new was $1004.00
Will sell all for $500.00 (plus shipping).
Contact: Chris Burgan (425) 226-0001
1. C-frame tool (Cleaveland Aircraft brand)
2. (75) 3/32" clecos
3. (50) 1/8" clecos
4. Pro Snips - left
5. Pro Snips - right
6. Sharpie permanent markers, pkg 4
7. Fluting pliers
8. Hex deburring tool
9. Taylor 2X rivet gun
10. Taylor 3/8" air drill
11. Swivel air regulator
12. 1" mushroom set
13. 1/8" cupped set (straight)
14. Back rivet set
15. 1/8" cupped set (double offset)
16. Back rivet plate
17. Offset hand seamer
18. 3/4" dia. flush set with rubber guard (plus extra guard)
19. Edge deburring tool
20. Heavy duty rivet cutter
21. 1.25" dia. flush swivel set with rubber guard
22. Hinge alignment pins, pkg 4
23. Empennage jig brackets, pkg 6
24. (1) roll Scotch Magic tape
25. (5) red Scotchbrite pads
26. 3" Tatco yoke
27. 2"x2" Tatco flange yoke
28. Pop rivet dimpler for AN426 3/32" rivets
29. Mini angle drill attachment (90 deg.)
30. (2) #30 threaded shank adapter drill bits
31. (2) #40 threaded shank adapter drill bits
32. Book "18 Years of the RVator" Newsletter
33. Video "Pre-punched Empennage" for RV6/6A and RV8/8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "crburgan" <crburgan(at)wa.freei.net> |
| Subject: | FOR SALE - RV JIGS |
FOR SALE - RV JIGS - Seattle Area
Contact: Chris Burgan (425) 226-0001
36"x48" carpeted table for Cleaveland C-frame tool.
Quality workmanship. Very little use. Save yourself
the trouble of building one. A total steal at $5.00
Welded 2"x2" square steel tube freestanding jig for
building empennage and wings, painted. Has smooth
wood facing on inside surfaces and smooth wood
horizontal cross-member (no holes drilled in wood
surfaces - essentially unused). Has taught cable for
suspending plumb bob. Accurate centerlines drawn.
109" face-to-face on vertical wood members (inside
dimension). Quality workmanship. Save yourself the
trouble of building one. $50.00 (1/3 the price of
materials alone).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "crburgan" <crburgan(at)wa.freei.net> |
| Subject: | FOR SALE - Partial RV6 Empennage Kit |
FOR SALE - PARTIAL RV6 Empennage Kit (prepunched) -
Seattle Area. Contains everything except horizontal
and vertical stabilizer ribs, spars, reinforcing bars,
and hinge brackets. Excellent value for builder
needing replacement parts. $75.00 (plus shipping).
Contact: Chris Burgan (425) 226-0001
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
| Subject: | Re: IFR Navigation |
Vince,
The VOR's will be around for a long time. Whenever WAAS gets up and
running then you will be able to use GPS for sole source IFR work if you
have a WAAS compatable GPS.
mailsorter-101-9.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/ms.dwm.v7+dul2)
From: Vince Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
Subject: RV-List: IFR Navigation
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:20:10 -0500
I was planning to use my aircraft for "minimal" instrument work, filing to
VFR On Top, shooting an occasional ILS or localizer approach when the
ceilings were a little low due to haze and such. That being said, I didn't
want to put a lot of money into IFR avionics. I was originally considering
one VOR/ILS receiver and a VFR or handheld GPS. With all the talk of
shutting down the VOR system it sounds like this approach won't allow me to
file for VFR On Top in the near future.
I could possibly get away with buying an enroute approved GPS but what
about shooting approaches? Will the on airport VORs remain for approaches
after the rest of the system is moth balled? I sure don't want to buy an
approach certified GPS. Any ideas or speculations out there?
Vince
RV-8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
| Subject: | RV-8 Navaid installation' |
Just read my reply to Rick Jory. Only a mother could love a guy who
writes that much.
Since I'm in the computer dark ages I can't E-mail pictures. I heard
from Rick Jory, Walt Shipley, Kevin Horton, Phil Smith and Randy Lervold
on my installation. I'll do an engineering drawing for you guys if you
send me your snail mail address.
Joe Waltz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Riedlinger" <priedlinger(at)triad.rr.com> |
| Subject: | For Sale - RV-6A |
I REALLY hate to do this but I have a bad case of
"the-family-and-work-is-taking-up-all-of-my-building-time" so I am going to
let my RV-6A project go.
Empennage - Completed
Wing - Completed with Ductworks lights in both wings, and fuel tanks
professionally done by Don London
Fuselage - just started, firewall completed, formers started. Fuse options
include: sliding canopy option, electric flaps,factory recessed firewall,
manual aileron trim kit, fresh air vent system, left and right external
step, dual brake kit, static air kit. ** brand new, never used Sport Aero
(Frey) fuselage jig with birdcage option.
Miscellaneous Options:
Whelan deluxe lighting system
Orndorff Construction tapes - full set from empennage - finishing kit
All completed parts have been primed with Dupont Variprime.
I am located in Greensboro, North Carolina (so is the project ;>)
Asking $12,500
You can reach me online at either of the two listed email addresses or call
I have pictures of the plane I can email to show workmanship and stage of
completion
Once my spare time become more available I have made a personal vow to
start
AND COMPLETE another RV!
Paul Riedlinger
priedlinger(at)triad.rr.com
paulried(at)ornaprod.com
The Ornamental Group Of Companies
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 1999 AirVentureGrand ChampionRV-6 |
I can't stand it anymore. As my wife and I were pounding rivets out in the
cold shed today, my mind kept going back to the pictures of Tyler Feldman's
drop dead gorgeous -6 featured in March EAA. I spend countless hours worrying
about every tiny detail,and it's still going to look like it was built by a
first time builder,which it is! It just frosts my berries that he stands up
there with Van, holding the Lindy when it appears obivious that his bird was
built by experts like Art Chard, Butch Milani,Jeff Sterling,Ed Banard, and on
and on and on.Sound jealous don't I ? Ive been on the list for almost a year,
and this is probally my second post, so I don't feel so bad about taking up a
little space. Any thoughts on this??
Ken RV-6 going slow
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HALF-PRICE RV Tool Package |
DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT!!! Alright, I'm done now...but you couldn't
send this two weeks ago could you? ARGHHH!!!
Bill
BUT, my empennage shows up tomorrow.
----- Original Message -----
From: "crburgan" <crburgan(at)wa.freei.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 1:20 AM
Subject: RV-List: HALF-PRICE RV Tool Package
>
>
> HALF-PRICE RV Tool Package. Great way to save hundreds.
> ALL tools have very little or no use (some still new)
> and are in excellent condition. List below contains most
> tools in Cleaveland or Avery empennage tool kit, plus
> others. Bought all tools new in early 1999 from
> Cleaveland and Avery. Total price new was $1004.00
> Will sell all for $500.00 (plus shipping).
> Contact: Chris Burgan (425) 226-0001
>
> 1. C-frame tool (Cleaveland Aircraft brand)
> 2. (75) 3/32" clecos
> 3. (50) 1/8" clecos
> 4. Pro Snips - left
> 5. Pro Snips - right
> 6. Sharpie permanent markers, pkg 4
> 7. Fluting pliers
> 8. Hex deburring tool
> 9. Taylor 2X rivet gun
> 10. Taylor 3/8" air drill
> 11. Swivel air regulator
> 12. 1" mushroom set
> 13. 1/8" cupped set (straight)
> 14. Back rivet set
> 15. 1/8" cupped set (double offset)
> 16. Back rivet plate
> 17. Offset hand seamer
> 18. 3/4" dia. flush set with rubber guard (plus extra guard)
> 19. Edge deburring tool
> 20. Heavy duty rivet cutter
> 21. 1.25" dia. flush swivel set with rubber guard
> 22. Hinge alignment pins, pkg 4
> 23. Empennage jig brackets, pkg 6
> 24. (1) roll Scotch Magic tape
> 25. (5) red Scotchbrite pads
> 26. 3" Tatco yoke
> 27. 2"x2" Tatco flange yoke
> 28. Pop rivet dimpler for AN426 3/32" rivets
> 29. Mini angle drill attachment (90 deg.)
> 30. (2) #30 threaded shank adapter drill bits
> 31. (2) #40 threaded shank adapter drill bits
> 32. Book "18 Years of the RVator" Newsletter
> 33. Video "Pre-punched Empennage" for RV6/6A and RV8/8A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Phone number |
901-527-5265
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard White" <chiefs(at)teleport.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 11:43 AM
Subject: RV-List: Phone number
>
> Anybody have the phone number for Panel Pilot?
>
> Dick White
> RV-8QB systems
> Newport, OR
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question About B&C Alternators... |
> Hi Listers,
>
> I was just browsing the ACS catalog, specifically
> looking at the B&C L60
> Alternator. I have a few questions regarding this
> unit.
>
> Will it fit under the cowl of an RV-4 with
> an O360-A1A?
>
> For this installation, do I need the "Case
> Mount" or the
> "Boss Mount"?
>
> I already have the B&C LR-2 regulator. Are there
> any other
> considerations I should be aware of?
>
> Thanks for the help!
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-4 #1763, N442RV to be...
Matt:
ACS had a photo of the difference in their old catalog
but not the 1999-2000.
The BOSS mount can be found on the WIDE deck engines.
The WIDE deck engines have NUTS holding the cylinders
on. The BOSS will have threaded holes to which the
alternator mount bracket will attach.
The CASE mount is usually found on the NARROW deck
engines. (also refered to standard deck) They are
distinguished by the allen head NUTs holding the
cylinders on. They should aslo have a steel doubler
between the nuts and cylinder base.
It is possible that a narrow deck could have the boss
but most likely would be case mount.
Look on the bottom of the engine but above the oil
sump for the threaded holes. If they are not there,
the case mount will use bolts and nuts that hold the
case together to mount the alternator.
I have the L60 on my RV-6. It was the only one of
three that I tried that fit. A friend who built an
RV-4 (narrow deck O-320) used a Nippon alternator that
was the same size. It should fit. You may need a
bumper on the alternator to keep the cowl from hitting
the pulley.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
Flying So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question About B&C Alternators... |
You will also need to specify the diameter of the pulley on your ring gear.
I was disappointed in B&C because I got the wrong belt with the their
alternator. When I purchased the "correct" belt as advised by B&C it was
still longer than desirable. I had some guys lined up to help me install
the C/S prop so I used the somewhat long belt. Now the alternator is hanging
closer to the cowl than I'd like.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL C38
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Date: Saturday, March 18, 2000 1:37 PM
Subject: RV-List: Question About B&C Alternators...
>
>
>Hi Listers,
>
>I was just browsing the ACS catalog, specifically looking at the B&C L60
>Alternator. I have a few questions regarding this unit.
>
> Will it fit under the cowl of an RV-4 with an O360-A1A?
>
> For this installation, do I need the "Case Mount" or the
> "Boss Mount"?
>
>I already have the B&C LR-2 regulator. Are there any other
>considerations I should be aware of?
>
>Thanks for the help!
>
>Matt Dralle
>RV-4 #1763, N442RV to be...
>
>
>--
>
>Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
>925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
>http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Lane" <jlane(at)CROSSCOUNTYBANK.COM> |
| Subject: | F-863 RV-8 Front Spar Attach Angle, DWG 31 |
DWG 31 shows one of the Front Spar Attach Angles for attaching wings to fuselage.
I built this per plans and also a mirror image for the opposite side. Dwg 31
claims to be the LEFT angle. However, when fitting the angles to the airplane
with the wings in place, the LEFT bracket will not fit the left wing, but the
RIGHT blacket seems to fit perfectly. Is the picture on DWG 31 really the attach
angle for the RIGHT side instead of the LEFT? JimLane
The possible problem I see with this is that the ears on the brackets for drilling
to the fuselage are reversed, i.e. the wider ear is now at the top instead
of the bottom. Has anyone else experienced this?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Gyros |
>
>> What does The List recommend as the best deal on electric gyros for both
>the
>> DG and the Attitude?
>> What company makes them and where are they available?
>Hi Norman,
>
>I just went through this. There are several manufacturers of electric gyros
>(artificial horizon and directional gyro), but RC Allen seems to be by far
>and away the most popular. There is only one model of each, other than lit
>or unlit or 14 or 28v, and they are widely carried by most avionics dealers
>including Aircraft Spruce. The artificial horizon is a model RCA 26AK-3, and
>the DG is the RCA 15AK-2.
A couple of us purchased RC Allen electric gyros from Chief and paid
$2500., on sale, for the pair, A/H & D/G.
My A/H Had a problem, that tuned out to be the wrong brushes (?)they said,
so which RC Allen repaired for free even though it was out of warrentee.
It still gave me problems. They replaced the A/H with a new. Mine was
three years old. Nice service! The D/G has been perfect. Problems happen
to any product. The good thing is they stood behind their product without
a wimper or excuse.
Have a great day!
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Morrissey, John" <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | 1999 AirVentureGrand ChampionRV-6 |
G'Day Ken,
Some of us are driven by the desire to win a prize but you just can't beat
the feeling of that first circuit in your brand new RV. It will rank up
there with your first solo and maybe the birth of your kids if you have any.
Keep pounding those rivits because everyone who actually finishes and fly's
there own is a real champion. An awfull lot of people try this hobby and do
not ever get there.
Back to the shed!
My Fuselage kit has arived and I've got a lot of bit's to catalogue.
John Morrissey
RV4 VH-???
Jodel D11 VH-JSP
-----Original Message-----
From: Kdh347(at)aol.com [mailto:Kdh347(at)aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 10:39 AM
Subject: RV-List: 1999 AirVentureGrand ChampionRV-6
I can't stand it anymore. As my wife and I were pounding rivets out in the
cold shed today, my mind kept going back to the pictures of Tyler Feldman's
drop dead gorgeous -6 featured in March EAA. I spend countless hours
worrying
about every tiny detail,and it's still going to look like it was built by a
first time builder,which it is! It just frosts my berries that he stands up
there with Van, holding the Lindy when it appears obivious that his bird
was
built by experts like Art Chard, Butch Milani,Jeff Sterling,Ed Banard, and
on
and on and on.Sound jealous don't I ? Ive been on the list for almost a
year,
and this is probally my second post, so I don't feel so bad about taking up
a
little space. Any thoughts on this??
Ken RV-6 going slow
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ENewton57(at)aol.com |
To all who answered my question on the VOR vs GPS for VFR navigation (both on
and off list) thank you. I recieved some valuable advise and the bottom line
is, I'm definetly going with the GPS and leaving out the VOR. I recently
flew a short 100 mile trip in a Cessna 172 rental. I planned it all out the
usual way with charts and VOR's and ground reference verifications, etc. I
found myself continually referring back to GPS (although it was unfamiliar to
me, I still could figure it out). It was so easy I couldn't believe it.
What a great list this is and to all who participate - us newbies thank you.
As I gain experience I look forward to participating and answering
questions for the ones that follow.
Eric Newton - RV-6A - Long Beach, MS (Empennage - HS skeleton primed and
assembled)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | ELT Installation Pictures |
I few pictures would be worth a thousand words for me.
Can any one post the links to some ELT installations?
I have just received an Ameri-King ACK450 ELT from Team Rocket. Great Price
with quick service.
Norman Hunger
Delta, BC, RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Brake Line routing |
Which is the best way to route the brake line thru the
fuselage to the outside and down the gear leg? A
friend of mine (who is a BIG help) ran his thru the
bottom as close to the gear mount as possible and then
down the leg. The blueprints show it coming out the
side. Any ideas?
Dan DeNeal
Hoopeston, Illinois
Great garage display!! :
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1999 AirVentureGrand ChampionRV-6 |
Ken,
I don't like it any more than you do, but the fact of life is you should get
used to it. This sort of thing happens all the time, and not just in the
airplane hobby. Old cars are notorious for this sort of thing...some rich
guy with a lot of money hires the best help he can find and gets himself a
trophy. It's not fair, but then what is. If you let it get to you, you will
go nuts. The best advice I (as well as other posters) can offer is be
impressed by the workmanship (after all the "professional" builders had to
build their first plane sometime), try to learn from it and remember that
the other builders will be impressed by your work.
Bill Daniels
RV-?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
>
>
>But the
>truth is I seem to use only my Northstar M-3 at least 99% of the time. I
>guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't mind launching IFR with just
>IFR-certified GPS as long as the weather is "soft IFR."
>
>Jerry Carter
I've done a fair bit of flying with various IFR approved GPS
installations, and it is wonderful stuff. But I have seen very rare
periods where the GPS satellite geometry was a bit shaky, and the GPS
box would have difficulty. This happened most recently on Friday
morning - the KLN 90B lost nav capability three or four times, for
several minutes each time. There seemed to be lots of satellites
visible, but for some reason the GPS was not happy.
Maybe the addition of the WAAS signal will improve the availability,
but right now I'm not prepared to use GPS for IFR or VFR without a
backup plan in case it dies. If I am IFR, I will have a VOR and ILS
until the GPS system is more bullet proof (the receiver could die
too, so even if I was GPS only, I would have two of them). If I am
VFR, I will have sectionals with me, and know where I am.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (prepping fuse for skin riveting)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 1999 AirVentureGrand ChampionRV-6 |
Personally, all I want is a fast aircraft, with the craftsmanship
appreciated by my peers as much as myself. The pretty boys who show up for
trophies with aircraft they're not qualified to wax let alone maintain will
not likely give my first plane a second look...but then again I doubt they
would know what they were looking at anyway would they?
By the way...for those who are into that sort of thing (like me) German cars
1st through 4th at Sebring......YEAH baby. Not a viper in sight...... Oops
straying off RV subject matter here....must be that last batch of
margaritas....I'll stop typing now.
Blue skies all.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brake Line routing |
You didn't say what type of plane in your post, but I see from your email
address that you are building an RV6A. I ran the brake line through the
side of the fuselage in the wing root area, and then through the sheet
metal wing/fuse fairing into the gear fairing. Doesn't probably matter
much, just be sure it will be close enough to the gear and fuselage to be
safely enclosed in the fairings - intersection fairing and gear leg
fairing.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN 6A
>
> Which is the best way to route the brake line thru the
> fuselage to the outside and down the gear leg? A
> friend of mine (who is a BIG help) ran his thru the
> bottom as close to the gear mount as possible and then
> down the leg. The blueprints show it coming out the
> side. Any ideas?
>
> Dan DeNeal
> Hoopeston, Illinois
> Great garage display!! :
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Lane" <jlane(at)CROSSCOUNTYBANK.COM> |
| Subject: | 8 degree tilt-- gyros |
I keep seeing references to an 8 degree tilt for gyros on the list. Is this for
air or electric driven, or both? What are the requirements or advantages? Thanks,
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 8 degree tilt-- gyros |
>
>I keep seeing references to an 8 degree tilt for gyros on the list. Is
this for air or electric driven, or both? What are the requirements or
advantages? Thanks, Jim
It is for both, Jim. It is due to the tilt of the RVs instrument panel.
Have a great day!
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 8 degree tilt-- gyros |
> >I keep seeing references to an 8 degree tilt for gyros on the list. Is
> this for air or electric driven, or both? What are the requirements or
> advantages? Thanks, Jim
>
>
> It is for both, Jim. It is due to the tilt of the RVs instrument panel.
Yes both air driven and electric driven but only concerning the attitude
gyro. I speak only for the RV6, RV6A, and the RV9A. Their panels lean
forward 8 degrees so the attitude gyro would always show a descent unless a
gyro shop modifies it to show level flight on the tilted panel. This means
that you would be at an advantage to buy your attitude gyro from a repair
facility as they will be able to do this modification very easily and at no
extra cost to you before they send it to you. If you buy your gyro at the
flea market you will have to send it out and incur some more cost.
Can some one let the list know if the RV3, RV4,or RV8 has any panel tilt?
Regards,
Norman Hunger
RV6A, Delta, BC.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F-863 RV-8 Front Spar Attach Angle, DWG 31 |
>From: "Jim Lane" <jlane(at)CROSSCOUNTYBANK.COM>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: F-863 RV-8 Front Spar Attach Angle, DWG 31
>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:33:17 -0600
>
>
>DWG 31 shows one of the Front Spar Attach Angles for attaching wings to
>fuselage. I built this per plans and also a mirror image for the opposite
>side. Dwg 31 claims to be the LEFT angle. However, when fitting the angles
>to the airplane with the wings in place, the LEFT bracket will not fit the
>left wing, but the RIGHT blacket seems to fit perfectly. Is the picture on
>DWG 31 really the attach angle for the RIGHT side instead of the LEFT?
>JimLane
> The possible problem I see with this is that the
>ears on the brackets for drilling to the fuselage are reversed, i.e. the
>wider ear is now at the top instead of the bottom. Has anyone else
>experienced this?
>
You are correct. Just swap them and they will work fine. Be sure the
contours of the pieces allow the fairings to fit against the fuselage. I had
to grind some material away on the top to get them to clear.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
63 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
,
> >
> > The VOR's will be around for a long time. Whenever WAAS gets up and
> > running then you will be able to use GPS for sole source IFR work if you
> > have a WAAS compatable GPS.
>
My understanding is that under the current interpretation of the FARs, you
cannot use even an IFR approved GPS navigator as your sole source of
navigation equipment installed in your aircraft. So you still must have an
VOR installed in the airplane.
Doug Weiler, MN Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 1999 AirVentureGrand ChampionRV-6 |
From what I understand is that although Tyler's -6 looks great, it is rather
heavy.
Now, I would be impressed with an aircraft looking like Tyler's if it was
roughly the same weight as the prototype of that particular aircraft.
I have no doubt that all those gizmo's on board are cutting his performance,
and let's be honest, the RV series look very good indeed, but at the end of
the day we are all after performance at an affordable level.
My RV will most probably not win an award as it is not my intention to trade
payload for performance, on the other hand I do try to deliver good
workmanship in order to build a sound airframe.
I'm convinced that sometimes I might be doing to much work in area's that
nobody would notice, except maybe some judge.
My opinion only, no offence intended,
Marcel de Ruiter
RV4/G-RVMJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Noel" <bnoel(at)ausa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MAC wing walk |
We use a rubber wing walk on our helicopter interiors, works great. I do not
know if it is the same source.
-----Original Message-----
From: Boalty(at)aol.com <Boalty(at)aol.com>
Date: Thursday, March 16, 2000 9:01 PM
Subject: RV-List: MAC wing walk
>
>Just got my box of MAC servo stuff from the brown army (UPS) guy. The
>included MAC brochure mentions rubberized wing walk material...just
wondered
>if anybody's used it, seen it, has an opinion yay or nay....
>
>Bruce Huk
>RV-4, permanent garage display
>boalty(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rain off tip-up canopy |
Hi LeRoy:
It has been my experience that rain will definitely get in. My solution was
to install a three sided box over the avionics attached and sealed to the
back of the panel and open at the bottom. I have a waterproof canopy cover
that covers from the back of the cowling to the rear of the baggage area. If
it is raining when I land I put the cover on immediately and always have it
on when parked outside unattended.
It seems that any water getting in is far enough forward that it doesn't
bother the instruments but because the avionics extend farther forward they
are at risk without a cover.
Water also gets in when flying in heavy precip. but with the avionics
covered I have never had any damage.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
-----Original Message-----
From: JhnstnIII(at)aol.com <JhnstnIII(at)aol.com>
Date: Friday, March 17, 2000 6:16 PM
Subject: RV-List: Rain off tip-up canopy
>
>Listers--I like the tip-up, but am wondering if rainwater will run behind
the
>instrument panel when it is tipped up. Is this a problem, and if so, is
>there a solution? Please advise. Thanks. --LeRoy Johnston, Westerville,
OH,
>empennage.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR Navigation |
> My understanding is that under the current interpretation of the FARs, you
> cannot use even an IFR approved GPS navigator as your sole source of
> navigation equipment installed in your aircraft. So you still must have
an
> VOR installed in the airplane.
>
> Doug Weiler, MN Wing
This is true for Canadians although the CARS are written that you must have
two means of navigating in the IFR system. If you want to use a GPS it must
be IFR approved and you still need a second one or either a VOR or ADF.
Basically you must have two of either GPS's, VOR's or ADF's.
I'm not sure whether this applies to American aircraft flying IFR in Canada.
Worthy of some research.
Norman Hunger
Delta, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: NavAid S-2 Servo $? |
>
>To great list information contributors,
>I E-mailed NavAid Devices a week ago, indicating possible interest obtaining
>an S-2 servo early, at wing build stage, asking the price, but no reply. If
>someone out there at least knows component prices, I'll appreciate learning.
The servo was half the total cost when I bought mine, about two years
ago. I paid $650. I'm not sure what the current total price is, but
I suspect they still charge half for the servo, and half for the
control head.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (prepping fuse for skin riveting)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Riedlinger" <priedlinger(at)triad.rr.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6A for sale - SOLD |
Thanks to all those who expressed interest in my RV-6A project. I sold it
this afternoon.
Paul Riedlinger
priedlinger(at)triad.rr.com
paulried(at)ornaprod.com
The Ornamental Group Of Companies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 8 degree tilt-- gyros |
> Can some one let the list know if the RV3, RV4,or RV8 has any panel tilt?
I can confirm that the RV-8 also has an 8 degree panel tilt. My
understanding is that ALL RVs have the same tilt, but check with Van's to
verify before buying a gyro.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "crburgan" <crburgan(at)wa.freei.net> |
| Subject: | FOR SALE - RV JIGS ARE SOLD |
The RV jigs I posted yesterday are sold. "Thank you" to everyone who inquired.
Chris Burgan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "crburgan" <crburgan(at)wa.freei.net> |
| Subject: | PARTIAL RV6 Empennage Kit SOLD |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "crburgan" <crburgan(at)wa.freei.net> |
| Subject: | PARTIAL RV6 EMPPENAGE KIT SOLD |
The partial RV6 empennage kit I advertised yesterday has been sold. Thank you
to everyone who inquired.
Chris Burgan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <rv8abuild(at)mindspring.com> |
> >
>
> My understanding is that under the current interpretation of the FARs, you
> cannot use even an IFR approved GPS navigator as your sole source of
> navigation equipment installed in your aircraft. So you still must have
an
> VOR installed in the airplane.
>
> Doug Weiler, MN Wing
>
Where do the FAR's say that, Doug? All that 91.205 (d) (2) says is that you
must have "two-way radio communications system and navigational equipment
appropriate to ther ground facilities to be used."
Thanks,
Jerry Carter
RV-8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "crburgan" <crburgan(at)wa.freei.net> |
| Subject: | HALF-PRICE RV Tool Package SOLD |
The half-price RV tool package I posted yesterday has been spoken for. Thanks
to all who inquired.
Chris Burgan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com> |
| Subject: | Scratched HS skins - ouch! |
The instructions say to handle the skins with care...guess I didn't use enough....
There are two spots on my skins that are scratched enough to concern me. One spot
is on the inside of the skin at a rivet hole for the tip rib...near the leading
edge. It must've been scratched by the flange, I didn't realize that the
flange wasn't parallel to the skin. The other...outside near a rivet hole for
the root rib, the scratch looks as though a drill bit went wandering.
What, if anything, should I do about the scratches (especially the one inside)?
Semper Fi
John
Empennage skeleton in the jig...FINALLY...almost ready to rivet the skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
I maybe be mistaken on that fact. I got my info from one of the managers at
NWA who is also building an RV-4. He attended a conference at the airline
attended by the FAA committee that is working on the whole GPS/WAAS system
and they were the ones that gave him the info regarding these requirements.
Actually I think it is in an Advisory Circular and if you would like, I'm
pretty sure I can get the specific references.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
| From: | Jerry Carter <rv8abuild(at)mindspring.com> |
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 5:35 PM
>
>
> > >
> >
> > My understanding is that under the current interpretation of the FARs,
you
> > cannot use even an IFR approved GPS navigator as your sole source of
> > navigation equipment installed in your aircraft. So you still must
have
> an
> > VOR installed in the airplane.
> >
> > Doug Weiler, MN Wing
> >
>
> Where do the FAR's say that, Doug? All that 91.205 (d) (2) says is that
you
> must have "two-way radio communications system and navigational equipment
> appropriate to ther ground facilities to be used."
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jerry Carter
> RV-8A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 1999 AirVentureGrand ChampionRV-6 |
>
>From what I understand is that although Tyler's -6 looks great, it is
rather
>heavy.
>Now, I would be impressed with an aircraft looking like Tyler's if it was
>roughly the same weight as the prototype of that particular aircraft.
>
>I have no doubt that all those gizmo's on board are cutting his
performance,
>and let's be honest, the RV series look very good indeed, but at the end of
>the day we are all after performance at an affordable level.
>
My recollection (often faulty) from having spoken with Tyler at Copperstate,
is that his plane weighs around 1150 pounds. Gave me some satisfaction that
my ratty airplane surpassed his by a substantial margin in at least one
important area.
I must have still been feeling somewhat inadequate though, because I told
him he was nuts for spending the time it took to build that tail fairing,
which is, however, truly beautiful (maybe he built it).
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Scratched HS skins - ouch! |
>
>The instructions say to handle the skins with care...guess I didn't use
enough....
>
>There are two spots on my skins that are scratched enough to concern me.
One spot is on the inside of the skin at a rivet hole for the tip rib...near
the leading edge. It must've been scratched by the flange, I didn't realize
that the flange wasn't parallel to the skin. The other...outside near a
rivet hole for the root rib, the scratch looks as though a drill bit went
wandering.
>
>What, if anything, should I do about the scratches (especially the one
inside)?
>
My advice would be to not do anything, especially if you are priming inside
and painting outside.
If you are priming, you might shoot a little or brush a little primer on the
inside scratch.
If you will be painting the exterior, it would take a major scratch to be
detectable later.
My most interesting scratches were from a cat that tried mightily to climb
up onto the top of the aft fuselage. He was not successful but the mutiple
scratches testified to his determination. After paint it is academic.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Installation Pictures |
Norman Hunger wrote:
>
>
> I few pictures would be worth a thousand words for me.
>
> Can any one post the links to some ELT installations?
>
> I have just received an Ameri-King ACK450 ELT from Team Rocket. Great Price
> with quick service.
Here is one installation:
http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/panel.html
Sam Buchanan (RV-6)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne and Cindy <rwayne(at)gamewood.net> |
| Subject: | RV8 Flap Brace (W-821pp) installation |
I have a question on installing the flap brace on the RV8.
It appears the bottom wing skin (W-821-PP) is 3/16" too short.
When the flap brace (W821PP) is properly placed, the trailing edge of
the wing skin falls short of the flap brace flange trailing edge. The
dimensions to the flap brace trailing edge match the plans, but the skin is
3/16" or so too short. Pushing the brace to match the wing skin produces a
distinct curvature of the wing skin and makes the space between the top and
bottom wing skins too much, hence a gap between the top wing skin trailing
edge and flap leading edge. How are you correcting this problem? I am
reluctant to put a curve in the flap brace to effectively shorten it for
fear of weakening it. Cutting the flap brace flange would not leave enough
material to rivet to and the hinge would extend too far. I'm stumped and
little help in archieves.
Thanks!
Wayne Williams
RV8A QB
rwayne(at)gamewood.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Milton Bland" <miltonbland(at)hotmail.com> |
I need a full set of sheet metal tools appropriate for building a RV6A.
Milton Bland, days 913.583.3000x6707, evenings 785.542.2652
MiltonBland(at)hotmail.com
Milton_Bland(at)ATK.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
When you install an IFR GPS it must be certified in the airplane. Part of
that installation will include some limitations. One of those limitations
will be that it not be used as a sole source of navigation.
Tailwinds
Doug Rozendaal (different doug)
www.petroblend.com/dougr
dougr(at)petroblend.com
> > >
> >
> > Where do the FAR's say that, Doug? All that 91.205 (d) (2) says is that
> you
> > must have "two-way radio communications system and navigational
equipment
> > appropriate to ther ground facilities to be used."
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Flap Brace (W-821pp) installation |
>
>I have a question on installing the flap brace on the RV8.
>It appears the bottom wing skin (W-821-PP) is 3/16" too short.
>When the flap brace (W821PP) is properly placed, the trailing edge of
>the wing skin falls short of the flap brace flange trailing edge. The
>dimensions to the flap brace trailing edge match the plans, but the skin is
>3/16" or so too short. Pushing the brace to match the wing skin produces a
>distinct curvature of the wing skin and makes the space between the top and
>bottom wing skins too much, hence a gap between the top wing skin trailing
>edge and flap leading edge. How are you correcting this problem? I am
>reluctant to put a curve in the flap brace to effectively shorten it for
>fear of weakening it. Cutting the flap brace flange would not leave enough
>material to rivet to and the hinge would extend too far. I'm stumped and
>little help in archieves.
>Thanks!
My situation was similar, but the mismatch was quite bit less (0.050,
or a bit less than 1/16). I trimmed the flange of the flap brace,
and had to bevel the edge of the hinge so it didn't hit the web of
the flap brace.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (prepping fuse for skin riveting)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Flap Brace (W-821pp) installation |
> I have a question on installing the flap brace on the RV8.
> It appears the bottom wing skin (W-821-PP) is 3/16" too short.
> When the flap brace (W821PP) is properly placed, the trailing edge of
> the wing skin falls short of the flap brace flange trailing edge. The
> dimensions to the flap brace trailing edge match the plans, but the skin
is
> 3/16" or so too short. Pushing the brace to match the wing skin produces a
> distinct curvature of the wing skin and makes the space between the top
and
> bottom wing skins too much, hence a gap between the top wing skin trailing
> edge and flap leading edge. How are you correcting this problem? I am
> reluctant to put a curve in the flap brace to effectively shorten it for
> fear of weakening it. Cutting the flap brace flange would not leave enough
> material to rivet to and the hinge would extend too far. I'm stumped and
> little help in archieves.
> Thanks!
>
> Wayne Williams
> RV8A QB
> rwayne(at)gamewood.net
Wayne,
This is a problem with every RV-8 I've seen, whether QB or slow build like
mine. I ended up trimming the flap brace slightly, lining the three pieces
(bottom skin, flap brace, and hinge) up the best I could, and drilling it.
Yes, you end up with a slight flare on the end of the bottom skin, but there
is still plenty of pressure from the top skin onto the flap leading edge.
I've already mounted my wings and had all that installed which is how I
know. FWIW, as measured with a straight edge from the end of the bottom skin
back across the concave area, I have maybe a 1/8" dip. Of course this should
be convex rather than concave.
I don't know what Van's official position is on this matter, but if it's any
consolation every -8 up here in the Portland area has that to some extent.
If you end up speaking with Van's I'd like to hear what they have to say.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, plumbing & wiring
www.pacifier.com/~randyl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Burton <dburton(at)foxinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Scratched HS skins - ouch! |
The danger with a scratch is that it could act as a stress riser and cause the
skin to crack. Van's instructions say to sand the scratch away, and to a finish
as fine as 400 wet/dry sandpaper. Obviously you will remove the alclad, so
prime to protect the surface. Check with Van if the scratch is substantial.
The location probably matters more then the depth....
Dave Burton
6A wings
John Lawson wrote:
>
> The instructions say to handle the skins with care...guess I didn't use enough....
>
> There are two spots on my skins that are scratched enough to concern me. One
spot is on the inside of the skin at a rivet hole for the tip rib...near the
leading edge. It must've been scratched by the flange, I didn't realize that
the flange wasn't parallel to the skin. The other...outside near a rivet hole
for the root rib, the scratch looks as though a drill bit went wandering.
>
> What, if anything, should I do about the scratches (especially the one inside)?
>
> Semper Fi
> John
> Empennage skeleton in the jig...FINALLY...almost ready to rivet the skins
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pete & Delee Bodie" <pjbodie(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6A QB Kit For Sale |
RV-6A QB Kit For Sale
The kit was bought in 1998 with the following
options :
1. Sliding Canopy.
2. Elevator Electric Trim Kit.
3. Rudder bottom without provision for tail light.
4. Leading Edge Landing Light kit both wings.
5. Electric Flap option.
6. Firewall Recess Kit.
7. Manual Aileron Trim Kit.
8.Fresh Air Vent System.
9. External Step kit both sides.
10. Static Air Kit.
11. Dual Brake Kit.
The Empennage is done except for the fiberglass work..
The floor boards, left arm rest and window sill have been installed.
The rear top cover has been positioned and drilled.
The kit does not include the finishing kit.
I am selling this kit because I bought another kit that was 90% finished.
Asking $15,000.00. Please respond off list.
The price of the same kit today.
1. The Empennage standard kit, not quickbuild.
$ 1,267.00
2. Electric elevator trim
200.00
3. RV6A quick build kit, 4 to 6 months lead time
16,826.00
4. Credit for std. empennage
-2,000.00
5. Credit for electric elevator trim ordered wit empennage
-70.00
6. Crating charge
450.00
7. Firewall recess kit
25.00
8. Dual brake kit
170.00
9. External step kit both sides
170.00
10. Static air kit
18.50
11. Leading edge landing light kit, both wings
150.00
12. Fresh air vent system
60.00
13. Manual aileron trim kit
34.50
TOTAL $17,301.00 and you have to wait 4 to 6 months
My phone number is (925) 829-4680 and my E-mail
address is
pjbodie(at)home.com
The kit is located in Dublin, CA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | airflow performance fuel pump location RV4 |
I have the airflow performance fuel pump and filter. Do I mount this stuff
in the battery compartment, it seems a little tight, in the control column
area or put it on the other side of the firewall?
If in the batt compartment, where and how? On that same note, should I use
AN fittings at the firewall and run flex lines to the engine driven fuel pump
and if so can you recommend a good hose(type and where to order).
Carey Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
I'm in progress on a 6a with full ifr panel and eventually some upholstery.
also plan on 180 hp with constant speed prop. I've opted for the odyssey bat
to save weight up front. Should i consider moving my elt far aft to help
with cg concerns later?
Steven DiNieri
capsteve(at)wzrd.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <rv8abuild(at)mindspring.com> |
> When you install an IFR GPS it must be certified in the airplane. Part of
> that installation will include some limitations. One of those limitations
> will be that it not be used as a sole source of navigation.
>
> Tailwinds
> Doug Rozendaal (different doug)
> www.petroblend.com/dougr
> dougr(at)petroblend.com
Thanks, Doug and Doug. Since I started this thread, I'll try to help answer
my own question. I went into my records and dug out the "FAA Approved
Airplane Flight Manual Supplement" which was given to the previous owner of
my airplane with the installation of the Northstar M-3. Well, there it is
in black and white, stating that the M3 "is not to be used as a source of
sole-means navigation." I never really worried about this since my current
airplane has VOR's and glideslope, localizer,etc.
Also, in the limitations section it says that when an alternate airport is
required, it must be served by an approach other than GPS or Loran-C.
Soooooo, for you guys planning an IFR bird, you can't just have GPS.
Jerry Carter
My RV-8A Web Site:
http://www.rv8asite.homestead.com/mainpage.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Japundza, Bob" <bjapundza(at)dowagro.com> |
| Subject: | 1999 AirVentureGrand ChampionRV-6 |
At OSH 99, my wife and I spent a bit of time looking over Tyler Feldman's
airplane. When we walked away I mentioned that I wished my airplane looked
that good. She set me straight: "If you won the lottery and could spend
two years supervising others build your plane, I'm sure you could build one
that looks even better--but that won't happen so you'll just have to settle
with what you have."
Nuff said.
Bob Japundza
-6 and happy with it
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator circuit breaker advise needed |
I have installed a 40 amp alternator and will feed the charging current back
into the system using a #6 wire (or is it a cable?) My question is what
size circuit breaker should I use? Electric Bob shows us that we should
have a 80-Amp breaker, but he uses pretty heavy cable. Most planes that I
see use a 60 amp breaker. What say you builders?
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
RV-6A FWF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8A Fuel Gauge Install - Warning |
All,
If you are installing Van's fuel gauges in the lower right hand panel -
forward of the fuel valve, Please read.
You need to shift the left a minimum of 1/4" to right of where it would
normally be centered. If you don't the panel will not fit - because the
gauge will contact the loneron. (Ask me how I know). Dave has built I nice
panel cover to shift the gauges to the right & I looks great.
Good Building,
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (installing systems)
Niantic, CT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator circuit breaker advise needed |
Steve,
Go with the 80 AMP breaker - Bob suggests - It will eliminate the nuisance
tripping.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (wiring systems)
Niantic, CT
************
>I have installed a 40 amp alternator and will feed the charging current
>back
>into the system using a #6 wire (or is it a cable?) My question is what
>size circuit breaker should I use? Electric Bob shows us that we should
>have a 80-Amp breaker, but he uses pretty heavy cable. Most planes that I
>see use a 60 amp breaker. What say you builders?
>
>Steve Soule
>Huntington, Vermont
>RV-6A FWF
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cleaveland Aircraft Tool" <mail(at)cleavelandtool.com> |
| Subject: | Tire valve access door |
We supply caps to fit a 3/4" hole (easy to drill with a #3 Unibit) then use
the extension to access.
Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
2225 First St.
Boone, IA 50036
1-800-368-1822
Mike(at)CleavelandTool.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Hall
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 2:39 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Tire valve access door
>
>
> > Has anyone constructed a tire valve access door on the old
> style 1-piece
> > wheel pants? I have an off-List friend who needs some advise and is
> hoping
> > someone on the List could outline the procedure and/or have a photo.
> >
>
> Drill a hole ( mine is 1" dia.) in the fairing to line up
> with the valve
> stem. Use a pop-in cap, available at hardware/building
> supply stores, to
> cover it when not in use. A valve extension is needed to
> make it work.
> Everything needed is available from Cleaveland Tools,
> http://www.cleavelandtool.com/catsub1.html.
>
> Bob Hall
> RV-6, Colorado Springs
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternator circuit breaker advise needed |
Go with whatever Elect. Bob recommends. Sometimes you need to consider the whole
picture & Bob can help with this. Did you order his book ? Are you using a home
grown wiring diagram or Vans or Elect. Bobs ??
SSoule(at)pfclaw.com on 03/20/2000 09:31:53 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Alternator circuit breaker advise needed
I have installed a 40 amp alternator and will feed the charging current back
into the system using a #6 wire (or is it a cable?) My question is what
size circuit breaker should I use? Electric Bob shows us that we should
have a 80-Amp breaker, but he uses pretty heavy cable. Most planes that I
see use a 60 amp breaker. What say you builders?
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
RV-6A FWF
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | King Instrument Written exam videos for sale. |
Listers,
Mustered up nerve and took (and passed) the IFR written exam on Saturday. I
no longer have need for my King videos. If anybody wants them I will sell
all videos plus the course book for $65 and I will pay shipping. I believe
cost new is now about $180. Reply off list if interested.
Jack Rowell
Pensacola, FL
(RV-6 wannabe)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator circuit breaker advise needed |
I have the Aeroelectric Connection and I am going by drawing Z-1 and Z-2,
depending on what part of the system I am concerned about. The problem, if
I have one, is that I am using a lighter and lower-powered alternator than
Bob shows in his drawings for my day-VFR only airplane. I am also using a
correspondingly lighter wire or cable. It seems to me that the 80 amp
circuit breaker is pretty big for the system in use on my plane and I don't
want to introduce a problem such as frying a major cable because I have too
big a circuit breaker. On the other hand, I don't want to use a circuit
breaker that is too small.
I guess the best solution is to understand the theory behind the selection
of a circuit breaker. In my house, we use a 20 amp breaker on heavier #12
wire on the theory that the heavier wire can stand the higher current and
will probably get heavier current-drawing devices like toasters,
refrigerators, etc. plugged into it. We use a 15 amp breaker on lighter #14
wire, usually a so-called lighting circuit. If I am not mistaken, this is
something that you can look up in the building code.
I assume that there is some reference that applies to airplanes, too. Some
reference or a rule of thumb that tells you to use a specific size breaker
or fuse for a number 6 cable connected to a device that can run 40 amps
through it. I just can't seem to find any chart or table to provide this
value.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message-----Go with whatever Elect. Bob
recommends. Sometimes you need to consider the whole
picture & Bob can help with this. Did you order his book ?
Are you using a home
grown wiring diagram or Vans or Elect. Bobs ??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Garrett" <garrett(at)thesocket.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder - Dimple vs. Countersink trailing edge |
Having a tough time fitting the squeezer near the trailing edge of the
rudder to dimple the holes for the ribs. How'd you guys do that. The skin is
that thin grade(.026?), so I know I won't be countersinking it. However, the
ribs being much thicker, I believe I'll countersink. Any ideas are
appreciated.
Matt Garrett
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Our e-mail server crashed |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
I sent an order last week.
Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
**********************************************************************
> Our e-mail server was out from Wednesday night last until late
> Friday afternoon. Items directed to me were NOT spooled. Letters
> direct to me during that interval went into the black
> hole of cyberspace . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
YEEhaaaa.....My kit is here.... Now look closely at how I sign this email
Bill
RV-4 empennage <----woohooooo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternator circuit breaker advise needed |
I beleive the larger than normally used C/B is reduce the nuisance trip due to
momentary peaks of current.......normal by all accounts in the
alternator/batery systems we use. Maybe a linear scale back is in order...if Bob
says a 80 amp C/B on a 60 amp system then maybe a 60 on your 40 system will do
the trick. I am Sure Bob can lend his advice on the subject. I am using the same
diagrams you stated...they are great. This over protect will allow for a moment
transient and still allow you to "fry-protect" your cable/wire.....Is weight
that critical that upping the wire thickness is not a option ?
SSoule(at)pfclaw.com on 03/20/2000 11:26:38 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV-List: Alternator circuit breaker advise needed
I have the Aeroelectric Connection and I am going by drawing Z-1 and Z-2,
depending on what part of the system I am concerned about. The problem, if
I have one, is that I am using a lighter and lower-powered alternator than
Bob shows in his drawings for my day-VFR only airplane. I am also using a
correspondingly lighter wire or cable. It seems to me that the 80 amp
circuit breaker is pretty big for the system in use on my plane and I don't
want to introduce a problem such as frying a major cable because I have too
big a circuit breaker. On the other hand, I don't want to use a circuit
breaker that is too small.
I guess the best solution is to understand the theory behind the selection
of a circuit breaker. In my house, we use a 20 amp breaker on heavier #12
wire on the theory that the heavier wire can stand the higher current and
will probably get heavier current-drawing devices like toasters,
refrigerators, etc. plugged into it. We use a 15 amp breaker on lighter #14
wire, usually a so-called lighting circuit. If I am not mistaken, this is
something that you can look up in the building code.
I assume that there is some reference that applies to airplanes, too. Some
reference or a rule of thumb that tells you to use a specific size breaker
or fuse for a number 6 cable connected to a device that can run 40 amps
through it. I just can't seem to find any chart or table to provide this
value.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message-----Go with whatever Elect. Bob
recommends. Sometimes you need to consider the whole
picture & Bob can help with this. Did you order his book ?
Are you using a home
grown wiring diagram or Vans or Elect. Bobs ??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Wiring marking system |
Fellow Listers:
Does anyone know of a inexpensive electrical wiring marking system. I think
3M may make something along this line.
Doug
===========
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder - Dimple vs. Countersink trailing edge |
matt
order the pop rivit dimpler from averys, your gonna need it in a bunch of
places in the future anyway.
scott
tampa
rv6a
fiberglassing tail fairing and my fffiinngeers aarreee ssstttiiicckkyyy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hamilton, Thom" <Thom.Hamilton(at)usa.xerox.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder - Dimple vs. Countersink trailing edge |
I will second the vote that someone else posted about the Avery Pop-Rivet
Dimpler, however you will also find in the future that the Avery Vise-Grip
Dimplers are indispensable. They will get into places that the pop-rivet
dimplers have problems with. A nice luxury, just make sure to read the
directions that say don't store them without the little aluminum dimple
(which comes with them) between the dies. Due to geometry they can bind up
and be almost impossible to open again. Ask me how I know.
Thom Hamilton
MCSE, CNE, PP-ASEL, etc.
RV-8 Wings -- Drill, debur, dimple, repeat as necessary
Baton Rouge, LA 225-753-9339
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Garrett [mailto:garrett(at)thesocket.com]
> Having a tough time fitting the squeezer near the trailing edge of the
> rudder to dimple the holes for the ribs. How'd you guys do
> that. The skin is
> that thin grade(.026?), so I know I won't be countersinking
> Matt Garrett
> RV-6
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder - Dimple vs. Countersink trailing edge |
How about the dimple dies they sell that you stick a nail through and pull
with a pop riveter. Avery and Cleveland sell them.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Garrett [SMTP:garrett(at)thesocket.com]
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 8:32 AM
To: rv-list
Subject: RV-List: Rudder - Dimple vs. Countersink trailing
edge
Having a tough time fitting the squeezer near the trailing edge of
the
rudder to dimple the holes for the ribs. How'd you guys do that. The
skin is
that thin grade(.026?), so I know I won't be countersinking it.
However, the
ribs being much thicker, I believe I'll countersink. Any ideas are
appreciated.
Matt Garrett
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder - Dimple vs. Countersink trailing edge |
The tool I found to require the smallest clearance for tight squeezing jobs is
the small Vise Grips with dimpling dies on the jaws. I don't remember where I
got mine, either Avery's or Cleaveland; I'm embarrassed to say it was a long
time ago.
Best wishes,
Jack Abell
Matt Garrett wrote:
>
> Having a tough time fitting the squeezer near the trailing edge of the
> rudder to dimple the holes for the ribs. How'd you guys do that. The skin is
> that thin grade(.026?), so I know I won't be countersinking it. However, the
> ribs being much thicker, I believe I'll countersink. Any ideas are
> appreciated.
>
> Matt Garrett
> RV-6
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator circuit breaker advise needed |
Steve,
Keep in mind that the circuit breaker is to protect the wire. If you look
in AC 43.13-1B on page 11-15 you see a chart that tells you what maximum
size circuit breaker to use with what wire. In your case a #6 wire can take
up to a maximum of an 80 amp breaker. But as you are using a 40 amp
alternator I would recommend going with a 50-60 amp breaker to help save the
alternator as well as the wire and you will still not have any "nuisance"
pops. My opinion.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
>From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "Rv-List (E-mail)"
>Subject: RV-List: Alternator circuit breaker advise needed
>Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:31:53 -0500
>
>
>I have installed a 40 amp alternator and will feed the charging current
>back
>into the system using a #6 wire (or is it a cable?) My question is what
>size circuit breaker should I use? Electric Bob shows us that we should
>have a 80-Amp breaker, but he uses pretty heavy cable. Most planes that I
>see use a 60 amp breaker. What say you builders?
>
>Steve Soule
>Huntington, Vermont
>RV-6A FWF
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder - Dimple vs. Countersink trailing edge |
I used the Avery C-frame to dimple the skins. You can get into the trailing
edge if you are careful. Having another set of hands helps if that is a
possibility. I also dimpled the ribs. The trailing edge part of the ribs
were hard to reach, but I used a device from Avery that consisted of
Vice-Grips with dimple dies welded to the jaws and I also used my Pop-Rivet
dimple dies. I got the latter from, guess where ... Avery Tools.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
RV-6A FWF
-----Original Message-----
Having a tough time fitting the squeezer near the trailing
edge of the
rudder to dimple the holes for the ribs. How'd you guys do
that. The skin is
that thin grade(.026?), so I know I won't be countersinking
it. However, the
ribs being much thicker, I believe I'll countersink. Any
ideas are
appreciated.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scot Stambaugh <stambaug(at)qualcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Throttle Quadrant |
They don't. I called for a brochure.
thanks,
scot
>
>I don't believe that Steen Aero Labs has a web site. Last I knew they
>didn't even take master card. They can be reached at 828/652-7382.
>
>I had a three lever arangement in my Skybolt an took it out and replaced
>it with one lever for the prop with a 1" x 3" solid aluminum handle with
>verniers for the prop and mixture and am very pleased with that setup.
>Everyone is different, but I liked being able to find the throttle
>quickly with out haveing to look for it.
>
>Bruce Green
>RV-8 plans
>
>writes:
>>
>> Des anybody have a web address for Steen Aero? the Yeller pages
>> show only
>> a phone number. I'll call them if nobody on the list can help.
>>
>> scot
>>
>>
>> >
>> >George:
>> >
>> >Good post about the throttle quadrant - my sentiments exactly!
>> Here's what
>> >I've come to - the Beechurst quadrant is too big without modifying
>> the
>> >surrounding metalwork on the airplane (also it's very pricey). They
>> do have
>> >a new smaller one which may fit - but their bezel won't fit it. I
>> like their
>> >bezel plate - it has all the labels silk screened on.
>> >
>> >Steen Aero Labs make an excellent looking throttle quadrant (check
>> the
>> >archives). They are copies of world war two quadrants and the
>> warbird guys
>> >love them. A couple of EAA members told me that they are good
>> quality. Up
>> >until now they've only had reversing action quadrants available.
>> This month
>> >they're taking delivery of some direct action models. The two lever
>> is $225
>> >and the three lever is $250. The big question is whether it could
>> be made to
>> >fit. From the photos I have it appears that the unit mounts the on
>> the left
>> >side (looking forward) whereas we want the right side to be the
>> mounting
>> >surface.There's a lot of ingenuity on this list & perhaps someone
>> could
>> >figure it out.
>> >
>> >Someone suggested fitting Piper or Cessna knobs to Van's quadrant.
>> This
>> >would improve matters, but a handsome bezel plate would dress it up
>> even
>> >more. Perhaps Steve Davis at Panel Pilot would be willing to make
>> something
>> >we could use.
>> >
>> >Phil, 80691
>> >Throttle quadrant, fuel valve, baggae bin
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Empennage begins |
Well, nothing is ever perfect...but I'm still having fun. My E-401-R says
in very large black magic marker 'DUST COVER - DO NOT SHIP'...and it has
several custom bent places in it....hmmm, I'm pretty sure I know what that
means, but Van's shipping guy must have been asleep. Bag 609 is AWOL and
the VS skin has a bend in it from the elevator horn being packed beneath it.
The VS will likely be alright, but the other two parts are on the way from
Van's. It takes a week and a half to get here UPS.....I'm all kinds of
bummed out. I expected to have the empennage done by then :-)
There are airplane parts all over my living room !!!
Bill
-4 empy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scot Stambaugh <stambaug(at)qualcomm.com> |
| Subject: | throttle Quads and cables |
I found a cool web site with throttle Quads. Make sure you look under the
"Specialized Products" icon. There are some very cool and compact quadrants.
scot
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring marking system |
A ultra-fine permanent marker and water resistant medical surgical tape (
$1.50) at the drug store. Sorta low tech but has never come off, unstuck or
otherwise weathered off.
Some of the g-wiz and nice looking markers came off in less than 4 months......
dougweil(at)pressenter.com on 03/19/2000 10:39:43 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Wiring marking system
Fellow Listers:
Does anyone know of a inexpensive electrical wiring marking system. I think
3M may make something along this line.
Doug
===========
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | King Instrument Written exam videos for sale. |
Jack:
I forgot to mention: Congrats on passing your written!
Chris Heitman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring marking system |
I use a 3M product that has numbered tapes on it, 0-9. It works very well.
I have each unit numbered. For example, my GPS might be number 1,
transponder #2, etc. Then at the end of the wire that I need to mark, I put
a "1" (in this case to denote that it is the GPS) and then use a combination
of numbers to indicate the pin number that I am labeling. So, if I was
marking the wire for pin 28 on the GPS, the numbers on the end of the wire
would look like this: 1 (space) 28
Then all I do is look at the diagrams when it comes time to wire it. This
product was about $30 from DigiKey.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 8:39 PM
Subject: RV-List: Wiring marking system
>
> Fellow Listers:
>
> Does anyone know of a inexpensive electrical wiring marking system. I
think
> 3M may make something along this line.
>
> Doug
>
>
> ===========
> Doug Weiler
> Hudson, WI
> 715-386-1239
> dougweil(at)pressenter.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: throttle Quads and cables |
What's the URL ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Cole" <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring marking system |
Use your laser printer and clear shrink tubing
Ed Cole
RV6A
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)home.com>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wiring marking system
I use a 3M product that has numbered tapes on it, 0-9. It works very well.
I have each unit numbered. For example, my GPS might be number 1,
transponder #2, etc. Then at the end of the wire that I need to mark, I put
a "1" (in this case to denote that it is the GPS) and then use a combination
of numbers to indicate the pin number that I am labeling. So, if I was
marking the wire for pin 28 on the GPS, the numbers on the end of the wire
would look like this: 1 (space) 28
Then all I do is look at the diagrams when it comes time to wire it. This
product was about $30 from DigiKey.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 8:39 PM
Subject: RV-List: Wiring marking system
>
> Fellow Listers:
>
> Does anyone know of a inexpensive electrical wiring marking system. I
think
> 3M may make something along this line.
>
> Doug
>
>
> ===========
> Doug Weiler
> Hudson, WI
> 715-386-1239
> dougweil(at)pressenter.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder - Dimple vs. Countersink trailing edge |
>
>Having a tough time fitting the squeezer near the trailing edge of the
>rudder to dimple the holes for the ribs. How'd you guys do that. The skin is
>that thin grade(.026?), so I know I won't be countersinking it. However, the
>ribs being much thicker, I believe I'll countersink. Any ideas are
>appreciated.
>
>Matt Garrett
>RV-6
Matt,
I eventually bought the Vise-Grip dimpler that others have
recommended. But, before I got that tool, I would just bend the
flanges away from each other with my seaming pliers to make room for
the hand squeezer, and then bend them back to the right place
afterwards. It is not good to bend things back and forth too many
times, but this one cycle shouldn't hurt.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (prepping fuse for skin riveting)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder - Dimple vs. Countersink trailing edge |
Buy a 3" yoke for your squeezer...I found that I needed the 3" much more
than just the rudder. My 2 1/2" yoke has never been put back on the
squeezer. Not to mention, the pop rivet dimple dies don't make near as nice
a dimple...if you want the pop rivet dies, I'll sell you mine for $.50 on
the dollar.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Garrett" <garrett(at)thesocket.com>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 9:32 AM
Subject: RV-List: Rudder - Dimple vs. Countersink trailing edge
>
> Having a tough time fitting the squeezer near the trailing edge of the
> rudder to dimple the holes for the ribs. How'd you guys do that. The skin
is
> that thin grade(.026?), so I know I won't be countersinking it. However,
the
> ribs being much thicker, I believe I'll countersink. Any ideas are
> appreciated.
>
> Matt Garrett
> RV-6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
Dear Listers,
I received the following letter from Ritchie regarding their M series
electronic compas. If you recall, one of the aesthetic issues was the blue
compass card. I asked them about a black card and got the following
response.
Don Mei
RV-4 N92CT
Dear Don,
We actually are about to introduce the M-Series with black and white
dials. I am assuming they will be in stores in about a month. It would be
a good idea to check around then. If you can't find one so soon E-Mail me
and I will make sure you get one.
Jon Sherman
Ritchie Navigation
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tech Counselor Chicago Area? |
I am hoping to close my first wing (6A) sometime in May and was wondering if
there is a Tech Counselor in the North West Suburbs (Lincolnshire) who would
be willing to stop by and take a look.
Please reply off list (djb6a(at)cs.com or dave(at)lysine.com)
Thanks
Dave Burnham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AGOUGH277(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder - Dimple vs. Countersink trailing edge |
Check the tool catalog for a dimple die set that uses a pop rivet gun. The
dies are pulled together using a finish nail. Works fine. Also check witn
Van before assemly. They are suggesting applying a dab of RTV at this
location to prevent trailing edge cracking.
Al (6A drilling landing gear)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: KITPLANES OCT 99 |
Listers
in oct kitplanes on page 66 on top i think, are a number of instrument
panels. does anyone know the owner of the panel with the throttle quadrant
marked ( throttle, mixture, prop )? i would like to find this setup.
tanks
scott
tampa
rv6a
fiberglassing tail fairing and my fffiiinnngggeerrrss aarrree
ssstttiiccckkkkyy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tech Counselor Chicago Area? |
Your local EAA chapter has one or more of these folks......I'd suggest starting
there.
DJB6A(at)cs.com on 03/20/2000 03:56:55 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Tech Counselor Chicago Area?
I am hoping to close my first wing (6A) sometime in May and was wondering if
there is a Tech Counselor in the North West Suburbs (Lincolnshire) who would
be willing to stop by and take a look.
Please reply off list (djb6a(at)cs.com or dave(at)lysine.com)
Thanks
Dave Burnham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Graham <gary(at)colonialmortgage.net> |
| Subject: | Vision Microsystem Fuel Probes |
I am trying to install the fuel gauges for Vision Microsystem in my RV-8
QB. Since my tanks are already complete I can't figure out a way to get the
probes installed. The probes are about 4' long and are supposed to be
inserted into the tank from the lowest point to the highest point. The
probes can be cut to any useable length but you lose accuracy as you
shorten. If I try to install with out tearing the tanks apart, the best I
can get is about 18" into the tank. I'm afraid this will give me accurate
readings for only the bottom of the tank.
Has anyone run into this problem? Van's says build the probes into the tank
but that is not an option. Are there any other probes that accomkplish the
job without dismantling the entire tank?
Gary Graham
RV-8 QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ENewton57(at)aol.com |
Well side one of the Horizontal Stab skins are riveted on with me on the
rivet gun and my lovely wife on the other side with a bucking bar (actually
several bucking bars). I learned two very valuable lesons:
1. If the bucking bar slips off while riveting it leaves an ugly little
dent in your pretty skins.
2. There is a fine line between showing your disappointment at your wife
for slipping off the rivet and her telling you where you can stick
your rivet gun before stomping out of the garage.
I know the list can't advise on problem number 2. However, to those that
have reached the finishing and painting stage, is there any hope for the
dented skins or is it something I will always look at each time I prefight
the plane? By the way, as per the Orndofff tapes I did the top of the HS
first, so it's the side with the dents.
Thanks,
Eric RV-6A Riveting HS skins on side two
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring marking system |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
> Fellow Listers:
>
> Does anyone know of a inexpensive electrical wiring marking system.
> I think
> 3M may make something along this line.
>
> Doug
I liked the idea of printing on the computer & srink wrap wiiht clear
tubing.
I think John's page has it. AAMRELECTR@aolcom
Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
**********************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Wills" <willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil> |
>
>Well side one of the Horizontal Stab skins are riveted on with me on the
>rivet gun and my lovely wife on the other side with a bucking bar (actually
>several bucking bars). I learned two very valuable lesons:
>
> 1. If the bucking bar slips off while riveting it leaves an ugly little
>dent in your pretty skins.
>
> 2. There is a fine line between showing your disappointment at your
> wife
>for slipping off the rivet and her telling you where you can stick
>your rivet gun before stomping out of the garage.
>
>I know the list can't advise on problem number 2. However, to those that
>have reached the finishing and painting stage, is there any hope for the
>dented skins or is it something I will always look at each time I prefight
>the plane? By the way, as per the Orndofff tapes I did the top of the HS
>first, so it's the side with the dents.
>
>Thanks,
>Eric RV-6A Riveting HS skins on side two
Eric,
If you can reach the shop head of the rivet you can tap the ding back
out. I use a piece of hardwood, place it on the shop head, and give it one
good tap with a mallet. I have a shot bag filled with about 5 pounds of
lead shot that I place on the manufactured head of the rivet when I do
this. I think the shot bag tends to prevent the surrounding sheetmetal from
distorting. I've had good success with this technique; sorry I didnt
discover it sooner.
If you cant reach the shop head I think your stuck with living with the
error. You can always fill it with Super Fill.
BTW, teach your wife to work the gun. Its easier to drive the rivet than
it is to buck them. If you set the air pressure correctly it will be almost
impossible for your wife to overdrive the rivet. Then if the bucking bar
slips you have no one but yourself to blame. Makes family life a little
easier. : - )
Mike Wills
RV4 engine stuff (Mazda 13B)
willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | RV6A Tip Up Canopy Frame Alignment |
Hello, I've just started the canopy frame. I'm referring to drawing 51
Section A-A at the bottom middle. Am I correct in deducting that the C-603
Canopy side butts and sits flush with the fuselage side skin?
Section A-A shows WD 625 lower flange resting slightly higher than the
longerons. Is this for weather stripping?
Does this area ever leak when flying in rain?
It looks like it would leak if parked in the rain. Has anyone built their
canopy so that C-603 overhangs the side 1/4"?
Thank-you,
Norman Hunger
It rains alot in the Pacific Northwest.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring marking system |
> Does anyone know of a inexpensive electrical wiring marking system. I think
> 3M may make something along this line.
Doug,
If you have access to W.W. Grainger, they carry a large selection of wire
markers. They are thin plastic (.001"), adhesive backed tags that you peel off
and wrap around the wire. They are available in several sizes with different
labeling options, 0-9, 0-99, A-Z, etc. Very inexpesive.
Hope this helps,
Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Tip Up Canopy Frame Alignment |
Norm,
I have an RV-6A with a tip up canopy. The side skins of my canopy
overlap the fuselage sides by approx 1/4". I faced the same question you
have and decided that it would do a better job of keep the wet/rain out with
a little overlap. The only thing to keep in mind that with that 1/4" of
overlap, its a little bit like a guillotine to a finger. Never had a
problem, but you want to make certain all fingers are clear.
Ed Anderson
Rv6A N494BW
Matthews NC
Subject: RV-List: RV6A Tip Up Canopy Frame Alignment
>
> Hello, I've just started the canopy frame. I'm referring to drawing 51
> Section A-A at the bottom middle. Am I correct in deducting that the C-603
> Canopy side butts and sits flush with the fuselage side skin?
>
>
> Section A-A shows WD 625 lower flange resting slightly higher than the
> longerons. Is this for weather stripping?
>
>
> Does this area ever leak when flying in rain?
>
>
> It looks like it would leak if parked in the rain. Has anyone built their
> canopy so that C-603 overhangs the side 1/4"?
>
>
> Thank-you,
> Norman Hunger
> It rains alot in the Pacific Northwest.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Hyde" <nauga(at)brick.net> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Forward canopy |
Howdy,
Has anyone here got a pointer to a good photo or drawing of an
RV-4 canopy and frame? I'm particularly interested in the forward
portion where the skin meets the frame, and the plans/manual
just don't cut it.
Dave Hyde
nauga(at)brick.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Tip Up Canopy Frame Alignment |
Drawing 51 Section A-A shows WD 625 lower flange resting slightly higher
than the longerons. Is this for weather stripping?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
Mike: I back rivet when at all possible! My wife used the bucking bar on
the fuselage skins of our 6-A-QB and I laid on my back using boards and foam
for padding while banging away from the inside.
It helps being 5'10" and 175 lbs. but this is how they do the QB's
in Malaysia and not a ding!
Tom in Ohio ( Doing Wings)
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: HS Skins
>
> >
> >Well side one of the Horizontal Stab skins are riveted on with me on the
> >rivet gun and my lovely wife on the other side with a bucking bar
(actually
> >several bucking bars). I learned two very valuable lesons:
> >
> > 1. If the bucking bar slips off while riveting it leaves an ugly
little
> >dent in your pretty skins.
> >
> > 2. There is a fine line between showing your disappointment at your
> > wife
> >for slipping off the rivet and her telling you where you can
stick
> >your rivet gun before stomping out of the garage.
> >
> >I know the list can't advise on problem number 2. However, to those that
> >have reached the finishing and painting stage, is there any hope for the
> >dented skins or is it something I will always look at each time I
prefight
> >the plane? By the way, as per the Orndofff tapes I did the top of the HS
> >first, so it's the side with the dents.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Eric RV-6A Riveting HS skins on side two
>
> Eric,
>
> If you can reach the shop head of the rivet you can tap the ding back
> out. I use a piece of hardwood, place it on the shop head, and give it one
> good tap with a mallet. I have a shot bag filled with about 5 pounds of
> lead shot that I place on the manufactured head of the rivet when I do
> this. I think the shot bag tends to prevent the surrounding sheetmetal
from
> distorting. I've had good success with this technique; sorry I didnt
> discover it sooner.
>
> If you cant reach the shop head I think your stuck with living with the
> error. You can always fill it with Super Fill.
>
> BTW, teach your wife to work the gun. Its easier to drive the rivet than
> it is to buck them. If you set the air pressure correctly it will be
almost
> impossible for your wife to overdrive the rivet. Then if the bucking bar
> slips you have no one but yourself to blame. Makes family life a little
> easier. : - )
>
> Mike Wills
> RV4 engine stuff (Mazda 13B)
> willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Cole" <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Listers,
I have a friend not on the list who is retiring in June and moving to Idaho.
He has the following RV4 for Sale....
1987 RV-4 S/N 1442 N442BB
200HP LYC IO360C1E6 475 SMOH
Air Flow Performance Fuel Injection System
1483 TTAF
Sky-Tec Starter
Alternator Rebuilt Aug 99
RST 572 Nav/Com (2 ea)
Narco At 150 Xpdr / C
ACT ELT
Flight Com Intercom
Lorance Airmap 100 GPS
Elec. Aileron & Rudder Trim
Fixed Pitch Wood Prop
Last Annual June 1999
$32K OBO
408-481-1730
jblazek(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Tip Up Canopy Frame Alignment |
Yes it is for the seal. If you read the Wil Cresinger and Van's
instructions, it mentions a .025 shim that is to be placed on top of the
longeron while fitting so that the frame is built with this gap.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://members.home.net/rv8er
Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6A Tip Up Canopy Frame Alignment
>
> Drawing 51 Section A-A shows WD 625 lower flange resting slightly higher
> than the longerons. Is this for weather stripping?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vince Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
| Subject: | The Screw up has arrived |
Well guys, I've been working for quite awhile with no major screw ups and
was feeling pretty good about this project UNTIL NOW! While filing the
left tank skin (T-801PP-L) I managed to take too much off of the outboard
edge. There is a gap of between 1/16" and 1/32" between the tank skin and
the outboard leading edge skin where they overlay the W-423 splice plate.
I know the gap is only cosmetic BUT I don't think that I can live with it.
Is there a fix or should I be ordering another T-801PP-L skin?
Vince
Disgruntled RV-8A wing builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Haan <bhaan(at)easystreet.com> |
| Subject: | WigWag Solid State Controller |
Best if viewed in Courier font.
Several have asked about the status of the solid state controller for the
leading edge lights (landing light and taxi light) including a WigWag
function to improve visibility and safety.
The circuit has been finalized. An engineering Prototype has operating for
some time. Manufacturing prototypes are on order and due the end of March.
The following information will allow you to plan for or design this unit
into your electrical system.
The WigWag Solid State (SS) Controller is about 2 x 3 x 1.5 inches and has
8 connections.
Connection Description
---------- -----------
1. Fused +12V in. The WigWag SS Controller switches this to connection 4
2. Fused +12V in. The WigWag SS Controller switches this to connection 5
3. Ground
4. +12V out to the Left Light (LL) controlled by the WigWag SS Controller
5. +12V out to the Right Light (RL) controlled by the WigWag SS Controller
6. Control input Switch for the left light (SL)
7. Control input Switch for the right light (SR)
8. Control input Switch for flashing - Wig Waging (SW)
Master Master
Buss Buss
15A 15A
Fuse Fuse Ground
| | |
| | |
|14 |14 |14
| | |
| | |
1 2 3
******** ************************ *********
* * * * * *
* Left * 14 * * 14 * Right *
* Lamp *-----4* WigWag SS Controller *5------* Lamp *
* * * * * *
******** ************************ *********
| 6 8 7 |
|14 | | | |14
| |22 |22 |22 |
Ground | | | Ground
| | |
o o 0
"Taxi" \ \ "Landing" \ "WigWag"
Switch \ \ Switch \ Switch
\o \o \o
| | |
|22 | 22 | 22
| | |
Ground Ground Ground
If redundancy is not a requirement and you want to further simplify the
wiring, pins 1 and 2 can be connected together and then connected to one
fuse via one wire to the master buss.
When Pins 6, 7 and 8 are connected to ground via a switch(s), the WigWag SS
Controller functions as shown in the table below.
G = Grounded. Switch closed.
F = Floating. Not connected to ground. Switch open.
Switches Lights
State SL SR SW LL RL
0 F F F off off
1 G F F on off
` 2 F G F off on
3 G G F on on
4 F F G Wigwag Wigwag
5 G F G on WigWag Wink the right light. Unique visual
6 F G G Wigwag on Wink the left light.
7 G G G on on
Pins 6, 7 and 8 can be connected to many different types of switches and
switch combinations.
Example 1 see the switches in the block diagram above.
Example 2
SL SR SW
o o o
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | o "WigWag"
| |
| |---o "Landing"
| o---GND
|-------o / "Taxi"
/
o/ "Off"
Example 3 ___________
/ \<---------Jumper
SL / SW \ SR
o/ o \o
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| ---o "WigWag Lights"
|
| o /o==== "Off"
| / |
|-------------o/ | "Landing lights"
/ |
GND
Pin 6, 7 and 8 use very very small currents, so the switches on the panel
do not have to have high current specs. The large currents that flow to
the leading edge lamps are switched by the solid state relays in the WigWag
SS Controller.
Other Features-
Increased safety due to more noticeable wig wag light patterns
Simplified wiring
Switches for controlling lights for taxi, landing and alternate flashing,
wigwagging, can be arranged and wired to fit your operating style
Solid State switching - no mechanical relays to wear out
Can operate up to 150 watt lamps
Switches last longer because they only switch very low currents to ground
Price estimate $60.00
Bob Haan
http://easystreet.com/~bhaan/
bhaan(at)easystreet.com
Portland, OR
RV6A 24461 Wiring the panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The Screw up has arrived |
>From: Vince Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'RV List'"
>Subject: RV-List: The Screw up has arrived
>Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:21:46 -0500
>
>
>Well guys, I've been working for quite awhile with no major screw ups and
>was feeling pretty good about this project UNTIL NOW! While filing the
>left tank skin (T-801PP-L) I managed to take too much off of the outboard
>edge. There is a gap of between 1/16" and 1/32" between the tank skin and
>the outboard leading edge skin where they overlay the W-423 splice plate.
> I know the gap is only cosmetic BUT I don't think that I can live with
>it.
> Is there a fix or should I be ordering another T-801PP-L skin?
>
>Vince
>Disgruntled RV-8A wing builder
>
>Vince,
No big deal! Move on. The gap may seem cavernous now, but when the whole
plane is together, it won't be nearly as noticeable. It's very easy to
obsess over the small things when you're working on sub assemblies. You have
to keep the big picture in mind and put it in perspective. The gap will
likely be filled somewhat with paint anyway. Now you have to go file away
too much on the other skin. "Oh yeah, I meant to do that", could be your
reply if questioned on it someday. ;)
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
63 hours of tremendous joy in a less-than-perfect airplane. (And still proud
of it!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Vision Microsystem Fuel Probes |
an access in each bay is somthing i have seen done at the rear of the
tank,to do this very thing .
John Glader RV-8 qb N21TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Imfairings(at)aol.com |
Bill
Just a tad early but I do make an awfully nice empenage fairing for the RV-4.
And -6. Upper gear leg fairing? Now it is a littly early for that.
Bob Fairings Etc. IMFAIRINGS(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Battery Cable Rental Kit. |
Hello Listers:
I've put up the first Rental Kit. It's for Battery Cables. You can it at AAMR/AirCore/ Battery
Cables or http://members.aol.com/aamrelectr/Page23.html
Please take a look and let me know what you think. Other Kits are coming soon.
Regards,
John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar
ineCore
(Chick the blue link to go there)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | How Skybolt Lost my Business |
Despite the fact that I don't want to start a never ending thread on
"Builders who Love/Hate Skybolt", I though this was worth sharing...
Skybolt has good prices, and shows a tremendous selection of fasteners,
fittings, etc. in their catalog, but I've given up on them. Why? Because
they have turned into the gang that can't shoot straight (at least on my
recent order). About 3 weeks ago, I called and ordered all of the firewall
forward plumbing goodies for my plane. Three weeks, a half dozen phone
calls, and an e-mail later I have absolutely nothing in hand, despite
repeated promises that the parts would ship "today", "this week", or
whatever.
The final straw was when I talked to them today, inquiring about the shipment
I was supposed to get last Friday. They said "oops,we shipped it second day,
not next day" (As it turns out, they must have shipped it third day, 'cause
it still isn't here). Also, instead of only being backordered on "one size
of firesleeve" as I was told last Thursday, it turns out I'm backordered on
firesleeve, hose, and fittings to the point that IF I had in hand what they
say has shipped, I still wouldn't be able to build even ONE complete hose.
To add insult to injury, they couldn't tell me when they would have the
backordered items. On reciept of this joyous news, I canceled the remainder
of the order, and will go through ACS or Summit Racing.
The lesson here is IF you order through Skybolt, make sure they have
everything in stock BEFORE you commit to an order.
Ironically, if you get put on hold by Skybolt, you get to hear a recording
extolling the selection of hose and fittings they carry.
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "armstrong" <armstrong(at)coastside.net> |
I am just about to start on my wings and have decided that a wing leveler
sounds good. I ordered the manual aileron trim. Do I need to order the
electric trim kit from Vans? And for the $64k question, who makes the most
reliable wing leveler kit?
Thanks,
George Armstrong,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tom sargent <sarg314(at)azstarnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More questions on the Deft Primer |
I got my deft primer from T.C. Specialties - 714-524-4490 (that number
worked over a year ago.) Th address is 460 INdustrial Way, Placentia, CA 92870.
Emrath wrote:
>
> Try this URL for Deft Paint and Finishes.
>
> http://www.deftfinishes.com/industrl.html
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: et <et(at)airmail.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 9:54 PM
> Subject: RV-List: More questions on the Deft Primer
>
> > Here are a few questions...
> >
> > 1) Where do you purchase your Deft primer?
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Tip Up Canopy Frame Alignment |
There are several that i've seen that overhang by a 1/4 '' or so . I built
mine that way. Just seemed to work better for me.
Terry Cole
flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
I can help with problem #2. Always let your helper hold the rivet gun while
you hold the bucking bar. First of all, it takes more skill to run the
bucking bar than it does to run the gun. Second, the person who runs the
bucking bar is the person who decides when the rivet is "go" instead of "no
go." Third, your helper, not knowing points one and two, thinks well of you
for letting them hold the tool. Fourth, they will help you again when you
ask.
I got this advice in the very beginning. It has always worked. The only
dents that I have in my plane are the ones I put there. My teenage
daughters, my wife, my friends and my dad have all driven the rivets while I
bucked. They have never made a dent. My experience is that they are super
careful with the gun because they are downright honored that I let them use
it.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
RV-6A FWF and still more little panel things
-----Original Message-----I learned two very valuable
lesons:
1. If the bucking bar slips off while riveting it
leaves an ugly little
dent in your pretty skins.
2. There is a fine line between showing your
disappointment at your wife
for slipping off the rivet and her telling you where
you can stick
your rivet gun before stomping out of the garage.
I know the list can't advise on problem number 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | RV6A Tip Up Canopy Frame Alignment |
My 603 side skin overlaps the fuselage. I like to think that I did it to
shed rain while parked. Actually, I had it all set up to be flush, but the
canopy forced the sides of the frame out about and eighth of an inch on both
sides while I was drilling it. I was sure glad that I had not trimmed those
603 side skins. The overhang still bugs me, but I think I'll get over it.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message-----Hello, I've just started the
canopy frame. I'm referring to drawing 51
Section A-A at the bottom middle. Am I correct in deducting
that the C-603
Canopy side butts and sits flush with the fuselage side
skin?
It looks like it would leak if parked in the rain. Has
anyone built their
canopy so that C-603 overhangs the side 1/4"?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing levelers |
>
> I am just about to start on my wings and have decided that a wing
> leveler
> sounds good. I ordered the manual aileron trim. Do I need to order
> the
> electric trim kit from Vans? And for the $64k question, who makes
> the most reliable wing leveler kit?
Manual trim will do nicely.
The Navaid unit that you have been reading so much about lately is a
good, reasonably-priced unit which many have used with satisfaction.
I have one.
As to wing mounting, I would steer you to Sam Buchanan's great site and
the wingtip Navaid mount story therein.
http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/navaid.html
I've pondered the options, and last night started making the parts to
implement that installation.
Good luck!
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Closing wings shortly!
====
Michael E. Thompson (Grobdriver(at)yahoo.com)
Austin, TX, USA
RV-6 in progress, N140RV (Reserved)
EX-AX1 Sub Hunter, P-3 (B/B-TACMOD/C) Orion Aircrew,
PP-G,ASEL, Motorglider Driver and Unlimited Air Race Nut!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing levelers |
The Manual system is a friction manual type ( spring biased) tention unit. By
all accounts works very well. I installed one. I also installed a Aero-Trim
aileron trim unit from Norm Smith of Mooney Mods fame. His company has STC's for
almost every aircraft flying & gave me a price at the AOPA convention that was
the same as the MAC units........Both are nice. The Aero trim is flying in
thousands of aircraft, has metal clevises & I just plane wanted to try it. My
hanger mate has the Macs in his RV-6 and he likes it.
Being a experimental I thought I'd experiment. Beside, that month I must have
had some $$ to burn.......some guilt, lots of fun.......
armstrong(at)coastside.net on 03/21/2000 12:12:27 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Wing levelers
I am just about to start on my wings and have decided that a wing leveler
sounds good. I ordered the manual aileron trim. Do I need to order the
electric trim kit from Vans? And for the $64k question, who makes the most
reliable wing leveler kit?
Thanks,
George Armstrong,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jah" <jah(at)abraxis.com> |
| Subject: | For Sale: Ellison EFS-4 Throttle Body Injector |
Hi Listers,
I have an Ellison EFS-4 Throttle Body Injector for sale. It is in excellent condition
and I have all documentation for it.
I'm asking $800 O.B.O.
Note that Van has a filtered air box to fit this injector so it will bolt right
on an RV.
If interested please email or call.
Thanks,
Jeff Hawkins
jah(at)abraxis.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marty Sailer <mwsailer(at)erols.com> |
I was the one who put the bug in Steve's ear to make up the stamp after
looking for one at "OSH" and S & F to replace my Cherokee stamp I've had
for years. My Son's girlfriend did the drawings for Steve because she
owed me a BIG favor. As I told Steve they look great and I've had many
favorable comments.
Thanks Steve, Marty Sailer
name="mwsailer.vcf"
filename="mwsailer.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Sailer;Marty
adr:;;;;;;
version:2.1
email;internet:mwsailer(at)erols.com
note:Marty RV-6A- Plumbing Fuselage
fn:Marty Sailer
end:vcard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring marking system |
> << I think
> 3M may make something along this line. >>
> Doug
> Be sure to post to the list if you find one. I would like to have each
wire
> identified
> with laser printing on the wires themselves at three inch intervals, but I
> figured I would have to pay someone to do this for me.
> Jim Nice
> RV6A(Wings)
> WA State
> (not comfortable with labels)
Listers:
Thanks for all the wiring marking tips. As far as 3M is concerned you can
go to this website and view their electrical products catalog
(http://www.3m.com/elpd/instr.html). From here go to page 153 and page
through this section and you will see all their wire marking products. You
can call 3M at their 800 number listed on these pages and they will tell you
the nearest retail dealer.
Doug Weiler
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV6A Tip Up Canopy Frame Alignment |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
writes:
>
> Hello, I've just started the canopy frame. I'm referring to drawing 51
> Section A-A at the bottom middle. Am I correct in deducting that the
> C-603 Canopy side butts and sits flush with the fuselage side skin?
******************
The c603 is your side skins to the canopy frame & will butt to the c602
canopy skin up front. I let the rear stop at the plexi cut. The two
sections are describing the non-splice plate & the splice plate
assemblies.
The forward frame is welded & you will use the 614 splice plate to
determine the width to the fuselage. The 2- 613's will define the length
of the frame from the 668 to the 631,
Notice that the 631 is the rear bow & is half of your roll bar.( same
p/n)
The 602 canopy skin must lay in a plane from the 601 fire wall through
the 668 sub panel.
The 602 will butt to the forward top skin & share the 668 flange. 5/8 aft
of the 668 is the front of the frame. the rear bow should be 3/4 from the
roll bar. Billy Wison used 1 by blocks so I copied him. the bottom of the
frame needs to be shimmed 1/8 above the longeron. You will need to cleco
the 621's on from below. I used a 1x4 clamped across the 668 to stiffen
it. next time I would not define the two ends of the 668 to the longerons
until I got the 602 din fitted. But I did not see that. Used 5/8's
blocks in front of the frame.
I butted the side skins to the longeron, but I think lots of guys
overlap. After you do all that fitting the plexi wants to push everything
out & the struts wants to push the frame forward.
The 668 will get an .025 angle 1/8th below the top for a gasket. the
sides get a white gasket. At the split in the plexi gets nothing. some
people use a f/g fairing of about 1/2 inch I think.
Hope this helps.
Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
**********************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vincent Himsl <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The Screw up has arrived |
Hello,
I would suggest you continue on. If after you have finished the tank you
find you don't like the rivet job, it leaks, and or you still are bothered
by the gap then you might consider redoing it. But remember, the tank is
one of those items that can be rebuilt anytime.
My left wing tank looks pretty rough and I had to repair a couple of
leaks. I will also have to do some rivet shaving. In short it was my
learning curve. The right tank looks much much better.
As I understand it, the completion rate for home built air craft is
somewhere around 25 %. Based on that, I recommend you continue on.
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8 Tanks done finally!
Moscow, ID USA
At 3/20/00 10:21 PM, you wrote:
>
>..... While filing the left tank skin (T-801PP-L) I managed to take too
>much off of the outboard
>edge. There is a gap of between 1/16" and 1/32" between the tank skin and
>the outboard leading edge skin where they overlay the W-423 splice plate.
>... Is there a fix or should I be ordering another T-801PP-L skin?
>
>Vince
>Disgruntled RV-8A wing builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronen Yehiav <yron(at)isdn.net.il> |
| Subject: | Off Toppic - wanted: people with expertise and initiative |
Hello to all of you on the list.
I'm looking (for undisclosable reasons, as yet), a group of
people with a considerable experience in RV-8 building,
preferably with A&P certificates, and US citizens, for a
possible business initiative.
Interested people are more then welcome to contact me off the
list, with the words RV-8 in the subject line of their messages.
As I said, I will not unfold all my intentions on the list (it
may be non relevant to most of you, sorry), but I hope at least
some people will find it in their heart and mind to trust me
enough to respond.
Thank you. Ronen.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marian and Scott Sawby" <mkr(at)netw.com> |
> Well side one of the Horizontal Stab skins are riveted on with me on the
> rivet gun and my lovely wife on the other side with a bucking bar
(actually
> several bucking bars). I learned two very valuable lesons:
>
> 1. If the bucking bar slips off while riveting it leaves an ugly
little
> dent in your pretty skins.
>
> 2. There is a fine line between showing your disappointment at your
wife
> for slipping off the rivet and her telling you where you can
stick
> your rivet gun before stomping out of the garage.
>
> I know the list can't advise on problem number 2. However, to those that
> have reached the finishing and painting stage, is there any hope for the
> dented skins or is it something I will always look at each time I
prefight
> the plane? By the way, as per the Orndofff tapes I did the top of the HS
> first, so it's the side with the dents.
Eric,
Dents can be filled at painting time. One bit of advise, put your help on
the rivet gun, it is much easier to master than the bucking bar.
Scott Sawby RV 6A N341SS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Off Toppic - wanted: people with expertise and initiative |
Hello Ronen,
I have all your prerequisites and more. I am currently building an RV-8A
and will finish it in about 6-8 weeks. Tell me more.
Mike Robertson
>From: Ronen Yehiav <yron(at)isdn.net.il>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Off Toppic - wanted: people with expertise and
>initiative
>Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:28:25 +0200
>
>
>Hello to all of you on the list.
>
>I'm looking (for undisclosable reasons, as yet), a group of
>people with a considerable experience in RV-8 building,
>preferably with A&P certificates, and US citizens, for a
>possible business initiative.
>
>Interested people are more then welcome to contact me off the
>list, with the words RV-8 in the subject line of their messages.
>
>As I said, I will not unfold all my intentions on the list (it
>may be non relevant to most of you, sorry), but I hope at least
>some people will find it in their heart and mind to trust me
>enough to respond.
>
>Thank you. Ronen.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronen Yehiav <yron(at)isdn.net.il> |
| Subject: | Re: Off Toppic - wanted: people with expertise and initiative |
Thank you, Mike.
I'm waiting for some more responses, and I'll tell you all.
Ronen.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Off Toppic - wanted: people with expertise
and initiative
|
|Hello Ronen,
|
|I have all your prerequisites and more. I am currently
building an RV-8A
|and will finish it in about 6-8 weeks. Tell me more.
|
|Mike Robertson
|
|
|>From: Ronen Yehiav <yron(at)isdn.net.il>
|>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
|>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
|>Subject: RV-List: Off Toppic - wanted: people with expertise
and
|>initiative
|>Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:28:25 +0200
|>
|>
|>Hello to all of you on the list.
|>
|>I'm looking (for undisclosable reasons, as yet), a group of
|>people with a considerable experience in RV-8 building,
|>preferably with A&P certificates, and US citizens, for a
|>possible business initiative.
|>
|>Interested people are more then welcome to contact me off the
|>list, with the words RV-8 in the subject line of their
messages.
|>
|>As I said, I will not unfold all my intentions on the list (it
|>may be non relevant to most of you, sorry), but I hope at
least
|>some people will find it in their heart and mind to trust me
|>enough to respond.
|>
|>Thank you. Ronen.
|>
|>
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Tip Up Canopy Frame Alignment |
Here are my origional questions with the factory's answers:
QUESTION > > Hello, I've just started the canopy frame. I'm referring to
drawing 51 Section A-A at the bottom middle. Am I correct in deducting that
the C-603 Canopy side butts and sits flush with the fuselage side skin?
>
ANSWER > the canopy skirt is generally installed so that it is flush with
the
> fuse side skin. some have built the canopy so that the skirts
> overlap the fuse skins slightly.....rain isn't much of a problem at
> this junction....especially in flight.
> >
>
QUESTION > > Section A-A shows WD 625 lower flange resting slightly higher
than the longerons. Is this for weather stripping?
>
ANSWER > affimative
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vincent Himsl <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com> |
I agree. My wife is a much better riveter than I am. Also, the swivel
flush rivet head from Avery is a must!!!
Vince Himsl
RV8 wing tanks done finally!!
Moscow ID USA
At 3/21/00 11:24 AM, you wrote:
>Eric,
>
>Dents can be filled at painting time. One bit of advise, put your help on
>the rivet gun, it is much easier to master than the bucking bar.
>
>Scott Sawby RV 6A N341SS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How Skybolt Lost my Business |
I'd go with Summit Racing. I don't know where you live and I'm sure I have
a biased opinion since my wife drives past the Summit store/warehouse on
her way to work everyday but they always had what I wanted, had it in stock
and have a liberal return policy.
just my .02
Bill Pagan
RV-8A N565BW First flight 12/19/99
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>Despite the fact that I don't want to start a never ending thread on
>"Builders who Love/Hate Skybolt", I though this was worth sharing...
>
>Skybolt has good prices, and shows a tremendous selection of fasteners,
>fittings, etc. in their catalog, but I've given up on them. Why? Because
>they have turned into the gang that can't shoot straight (at least on my
>recent order). About 3 weeks ago, I called and ordered all of the firewall
>forward plumbing goodies for my plane. Three weeks, a half dozen phone
>calls, and an e-mail later I have absolutely nothing in hand, despite
>repeated promises that the parts would ship "today", "this week", or
>whatever.
>
>The final straw was when I talked to them today, inquiring about the shipment
>I was supposed to get last Friday. They said "oops,we shipped it second day,
>not next day" (As it turns out, they must have shipped it third day, 'cause
>it still isn't here). Also, instead of only being backordered on "one size
>of firesleeve" as I was told last Thursday, it turns out I'm backordered on
>firesleeve, hose, and fittings to the point that IF I had in hand what they
>say has shipped, I still wouldn't be able to build even ONE complete hose.
>
>To add insult to injury, they couldn't tell me when they would have the
>backordered items. On reciept of this joyous news, I canceled the remainder
>of the order, and will go through ACS or Summit Racing.
>
>The lesson here is IF you order through Skybolt, make sure they have
>everything in stock BEFORE you commit to an order.
>
>Ironically, if you get put on hold by Skybolt, you get to hear a recording
>extolling the selection of hose and fittings they carry.
>
>Kyle Boatright
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
All,
The shirts we ordered from Paul Brown (RV6Paul(at)aol.com) arrived
yesterday. They are very nicely done and good quality, too. We'll be
wearing them at Sun N Fun and probably at OSH, too. It's really cool to see
your plane on your shirt!
Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
I have a line on an O-320 dash nothing. 2200 TT, 0 SMOH. The seller said the
data plate on the engine just says O-320. It came out of an old Mooney. He
said he believes it is equivalent to a -A1A. He's asking $11,995. Good
deal or not? Any questions I should ask? This is my first engine purchase
and I feel way out of my league. Any help from the list would be
appreciated!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <daronson(at)cwnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Forward canopy |
Dave:
I have some photos that need to be scanned. I am sure they will help
fill in where the plans leave it vague. It will be a few days until I
can post them. I will get back to you when they are ready.
Dave Aronson
RV4 N504RV
starting the fw fwd part
Dave Hyde wrote:
>
> Howdy,
>
> Has anyone here got a pointer to a good photo or drawing of an
> RV-4 canopy and frame? I'm particularly interested in the forward
> portion where the skin meets the frame, and the plans/manual
> just don't cut it.
>
> Dave Hyde
> nauga(at)brick.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Burton <dburton(at)foxinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine advice |
Van Artsdalen, Scott wrote:
>
> I have a line on an O-320 dash nothing. 2200 TT, 0 SMOH. The seller said the
> data plate on the engine just says O-320.
Hi Scott,
Does it include the accessories, and was it an overhaul, rebuild or zero timed
engine?
That information can help us better give you a value.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Shenk <dshenk(at)ruralhealth.org> |
Can anyone share with me any serious safety concerns of having circuit protection
that resets itself. I have reviewed the cost, convenience, and general information
re: the exp-bus and don't want to reopen that thread. My simplistic question is:
If I install this board and do not attempt to repeatedly reset a blown circuit
(same
as if I had circuit breakers) am I exposing myself to any significant risk that
I'm
not aware of?
Thanks for any insights.
Doug Shenk, RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | engine baffle seal strips |
Can someone please refresh my memory on where I saw some nice online
pics of a builders engine baffle seal strip installation.
Thanks,
Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Forward canopy |
| From: | "Glenn Bridges" <robwil(at)nlamerica.com> |
Dave, i am working on the canopy frame and front skin now and have just
understood the orientation of all this for the first time. Give me your
mailing address and i will mail you a picture of it. i wish there was more
info on the rv-4, like video's . i'm kind of lost myself. would appreciate
more tech tips too. glenn bridges..i'm in dublin ,
ga....robwil(at)nlamerica.com
----------
>From: "Dave Hyde" <nauga(at)brick.net>
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Forward canopy
>Date: Mon, Mar 20, 2000, 8:15 PM
>
>
>Howdy,
>
> Has anyone here got a pointer to a good photo or drawing of an
>RV-4 canopy and frame? I'm particularly interested in the forward
>portion where the skin meets the frame, and the plans/manual
>just don't cut it.
>
>Dave Hyde
>nauga(at)brick.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine advice |
In a message dated 3/21/00 8:43:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
svanarts(at)unionsafe.com writes:
<< I have a line on an O-320 dash nothing. 2200 TT, 0 SMOH. The seller said
the
data plate on the engine just says O-320. It came out of an old Mooney. He
said he believes it is equivalent to a -A1A. He's asking $11,995. Good
deal or not? Any questions I should ask? This is my first engine purchase
and I feel way out of my league. Any help from the list would be
appreciated!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116 >>
Scott (and others),
Here are some of the things I'd do...
1) Get the serial number. Call Lycoming and find out what kinda engine
you're talking about. Figure out if it is the horsepower, carb system,
ignition system, etc that you want, AND if it fits your airframe.
2) Get a list of AD's on the engine. There are many AD's and Service
bullitens out there. On my engine the big ones (at least the ones I
remember) were the oil pump & housing, the vernatherm, the crank, and the
venturi on the carb.
3) Get a copy of the logbook. Look for Prop strikes, etc. If you see
something you don't like, run.
4) Find out what was replaced during reman and what was reworked. New
Cylinders or remanufactured ones? Get copies of all of the yellow tags.
5) Find out what accessories are included. Mags? Starter? Fuel Pump?
Carb? These things get expensive very fast.
6) See if the engine has been run since reman. It is nice to get a few
hours on a test stand before you go flying...
If the engine has a good history, had a thorough rebuild, and has all of the
accessories, $12k is a good deal, assuming it is an engine that meets your
horsepower and airframe fit needs.
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine advice |
uh...I really hate to ask stupid questions, but since I know next to nothing
about Lycosaurs every question I ask will be stupid. What is the difference
between an overhauled engine and a zero timed engine? I know brand new
would be zero time, but the O-320 in question has 2200TT so, I'm assuming it
can't be new. :) I'm confused, and I hate that so someone please
enlighten me. I thought I understood that a rebuild is top end, and a major
overhaul includes the bottom end. Now you throw in this zero timed
description and I'm completely lost again. :) Oh well, long time to go
before I buy one of these rediculously overpriced, overaged, out of date
dinosaurs....so I guess I don't really need to know yet.
HS-403, 409 ready for prime.....HS-411 finished and waiting. HS-410 cut to
shape and deburred.....not bad for my first evening after work? I'm having
a blast.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Burton" <dburton(at)foxinternet.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice
>
>
> Van Artsdalen, Scott wrote:
>
> >
> > I have a line on an O-320 dash nothing. 2200 TT, 0 SMOH. The seller said
the
> > data plate on the engine just says O-320.
>
> Hi Scott,
>
> Does it include the accessories, and was it an overhaul, rebuild or
zero timed
> engine?
> That information can help us better give you a value.
>
> Dave
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine advice |
In a message dated 3/21/00 8:43:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
svanarts(at)unionsafe.com writes:
<< I have a line on an O-320 dash nothing. 2200 TT, 0 SMOH. The seller said
the
data plate on the engine just says O-320. It came out of an old Mooney. He
said he believes it is equivalent to a -A1A. He's asking $11,995. Good
deal or not? Any questions I should ask? This is my first engine purchase
and I feel way out of my league. Any help from the list would be
appreciated!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116 >>
Scott (and others),
Here are some of the things I'd do...
1) Get the serial number. Call Lycoming and find out what kinda engine
you're talking about. Figure out if it is the horsepower, carb system,
ignition system, etc that you want, AND if it fits your airframe.
2) Get a list of AD's on the engine. There are many AD's and Service
bulletins out there. On my engine the big ones (at least the ones I
remember) were the oil pump & housing, the vernatherm, the crank, and the
venturi on the carb.
3) Get a copy of the logbook. Look for Prop strikes, etc. If you see
something you don't like, run.
4) Find out what was replaced during reman and what was reworked. New
Cylinders or remanufactured ones? Get copies of all of the yellow tags.
5) Find out what accessories are included. Mags? Starter? Fuel Pump?
Carb? These things get expensive very fast.
6) See if the engine has been run since reman. It is nice to get a few
hours on a test stand before you go flying...
If the engine has a good history, had a thorough rebuild, and has all of the
accessories, $12k is a good deal, assuming it is an engine that meets your
horsepower and airframe fit needs.
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Great Shirts! |
In a message dated 3/21/00 9:19:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
OrndorffG(at)aol.com writes:
<< All,
The shirts we ordered from Paul Brown (RV6Paul(at)aol.com) arrived
yesterday. They are very nicely done and good quality, too. We'll be
wearing them at Sun N Fun and probably at OSH, too. It's really cool to see
your plane on your shirt!
Becki Orndorff >>
Becki,
There is another custom shirt RV guy. Rob Kermanj (900 hrs on his 6). He runs
Beagle Aviation and will be in the NW corner of the D building at Sun and
Fun.Rob has a web site at Beagle Aviation . I am personal friends with both Rob and Paul and either of them does
great work.
Bernie Kerr, so close I can taste it, 6A , SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Our e-mail server crashed |
>
>I sent an order last week.
Orders are handled by a separate server. Your order as
received is copied below. We'll get this out to you tonight
or tomorrow.
AeroElectric Connection
6936 Bainbridge Road
Wichita, KS 67226-1008
Pho/Fax: 316-685-8617 Email: nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com
Ship Date:
Charge Date:
Capture:
Batch:
Merchant ID: 852412337
---------------------- Invoice and Packing List -----------------------
Friday, March 17, 2000
First_Name: don
Last_Name: jordan
Address1: 111 N. Main St.
City: Mansfield
State/Province: Tx
Code: 76063
Country: usa
Phone: 817-473-0631
Email: dons6a(at)juno.com
Cards: Card Number Below
VISA/Mastercard: xxxx xxxx xxxx 9062
Expiry: xx.xx
OVM-14 OV Module @ $35.00/ea: 1
DIM30-14 Dimmer @ $47.00/ea: 1
S700-1-3 Switch @ $5.00/ea: 7
S700-2-3 Switch @ $7.50/ea: 2
S706-1 Starter Push-button with Guard Bezel @ $12.00/ea: 1
S708-1 Sub-miniature Push Button @ $6.80/ea: 1
PFB-20 Fuseblock @ $32.00/ea: 1
ABF-80 Fuse Kit @ $25.00/ea: 1
FGB-24 24-Tab Groundblock @ $26.00/ea: 1
HowShip: Best Way
--------------------------
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rywessel(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Altimeter Calibration |
Listers-
I just recently purchased an unused appears new (manufactured 3/99) United
altimeter from an online auction. I plan on using this on my RV-6A project.
The problem I have is that the unit reads 350 ft low. Is this a broken
altimeter or is just a routine calibration need to be performed? I don't want
to spend money getting the unit certified until the plane is ready so I can
get it endorsed w/the static system and encoder. Do have a broken altimeter
or should I stay calm and take it to the shop.
thanks,
robin wessel
RV-6A
Tigard, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine advice |
Hi Scott:
If I was considering it these are a few of the things I would need to know
about it.
Are the original log books available and if they are verify the total time.
Was it overhauled by a reputable facility and does it have warranty.
Was it overhauled to certified standards?
The fact that it does not have a proper data plate would put me on guard.
You have to know the dash number (model) to be able to determine if it is
suitable to your application.
An example would be, is it a 150 or 160 HP. engine? Will run a constant
speed prop, does it have the correct sump?
This for me is a partial list, if I can help please feel free to contact me
off the list.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
-----Original Message-----
From: Van Artsdalen, Scott <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 6:24 PM
Subject: RV-List: Engine advice
>
>I have a line on an O-320 dash nothing. 2200 TT, 0 SMOH. The seller said
the
>data plate on the engine just says O-320. It came out of an old Mooney.
He
>said he believes it is equivalent to a -A1A. He's asking $11,995. Good
>deal or not? Any questions I should ask? This is my first engine purchase
>and I feel way out of my league. Any help from the list would be
>appreciated!
>
>--
>Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
>Network Administrator
>Union Safe Deposit Bank
>209-946-5116
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vince Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
| Subject: | Tank Skin Screw Up |
Thanks to all of you that responded to my previous tank skin post. This
list serves as a valuable "reality check" and keeps some of us from
obsessing too much.
Vince
Onward and Upward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
Doug,
"Ptc breakers trip once, and stay tripped, until the load is completely
removed. with a ptc breaker, a small, harmless amount of current "leaks"
through when the devices are tripped. this current passing through the ptc
device, keeps the breaker hot, thus keeping it tripped. the small current
poses no risk of fire or damage to the wiring or avionics, but only serves
to keep the device from resetting. to reset the ptc, simply remove the
entire load, by turning off the radio, light or accessory being powered by
the device. after about ten to fifteen seconds, the ptc will cool down,
reset, and be ready for use again. the ptc can be tripped thousands of times
without damaging the device."
A paragraph from the installation book as written......
fwiw i purchased one and am pretty happy with it and the annunciator panel.
Steven DiNieri
capsteve(at)wzrd.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Doug Shenk
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:25 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: EXP-Bus
>
>
> Can anyone share with me any serious safety concerns of
> having circuit protection
> that resets itself. I have reviewed the cost, convenience,
> and general information
> re: the exp-bus and don't want to reopen that thread. My
> simplistic question is:
> If I install this board and do not attempt to repeatedly
> reset a blown circuit (same
> as if I had circuit breakers) am I exposing myself to any
> significant risk that I'm
> not aware of?
> Thanks for any insights.
> Doug Shenk, RV-6A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How Skybolt Lost my Business |
----- Original Message -----
From: <KBoatri144(at)aol.com>
...
>
> Skybolt has good prices, and shows a tremendous selection of fasteners,
> fittings, etc. in their catalog, but I've given up on them.
I ordered some nutplates from them and waited three months. Never got them.
I cancelled after getting some from Van in two days, but asked them (SB) for
a catalog. It's been four months and never got it. Too bad. I wanted to
use their cowl fasteners. But now I'm wondering . . . .
Mike Robbins
RV8Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Altimeter Calibration |
In a message dated 3/21/00 8:26:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, Rywessel(at)aol.com
writes:
<< I just recently purchased an unused appears new (manufactured 3/99) United
altimeter from an online auction. I plan on using this on my RV-6A project.
The problem I have is that the unit reads 350 ft low. Is this a broken
altimeter or is just a routine calibration need to be performed? >>
If you are sure that your altimeter is reading incorrectly and that it is not
a problem with your local ATIS information, it is an easy matter to adjust
yourself. Just make note of the current ATIS setting, then set the altimeter
to your correct current elevation, partially unscrew the slotted screw on
the lower left and then push it toward the 10 o'clock position. This pulls
the slug out of engagement with the knob shaft. Pull out on the knob and
turn it to display the ATIS setting. Reengage the slug and tighten the
screw.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 3/21/00 7:01:11 PM Pacific Standard Time,
dshenk(at)ruralhealth.org writes:
<< Can anyone share with me any serious safety concerns of having circuit
protection
that resets itself. I have reviewed the cost, convenience, and general
information
re: the exp-bus and don't want to reopen that thread. My simplistic
question is:
If I install this board and do not attempt to repeatedly reset a blown
circuit (same
as if I had circuit breakers) am I exposing myself to any significant risk
that I'm
not aware of? >>
Lots of info in the RV-archives on the EXP-Bus and at electric Bob's site
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
My opinion. Don't waste your money.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
Doug,
The circuits on the EXP BUS DO NOT AUTO RESET! That is a miss conception
that I think many people have. The protection devices only reset after you
remove the load(switch off) and remove the short. If you flip the switch
off and back on and the short isn't removed the circuit instantly trips and
no current flows. Otherwise as far as I can see you just get a system that
is easier to install, takes less time and is about as inexpensive as you can
get. This is not the absolute cheapest course but my time is worth money
whither it is working for my job or on the plane and I can get features with
the EXPBUS that would be hard to get otherwise. Especially if you have
electrical engine systems and want a backup battery.
Greg
(I've helped installed 3 now on friends planes.)
>Can anyone share with me any serious safety concerns of having circuit
protection
>that resets itself. I have reviewed the cost, convenience, and general
information
>re: the exp-bus and don't want to reopen that thread. My simplistic
question is:
>If I install this board and do not attempt to repeatedly reset a blown
circuit (same
>as if I had circuit breakers) am I exposing myself to any significant risk
that I'm
>not aware of?
>Thanks for any insights.
>Doug Shenk, RV-6A
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | glowing floodlight |
One of my eyeball floodlights glows whenever the master switch is on. I
tested all my rheostats and they all put out 1.5 volts with the rheostats
full counterclockwise. (These are the rheostats Van's sells) All three of
my floodlights are hooked to the same rheostat connection and all three are
receiving 1.5 volts at the light itself. Other than that they work great.
Whats up with that? Is this a problem?
Dave Beizer
RV6A waiting for hanger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | VP4SkyDoc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine advice |
In a message dated 3/21/2000 9:30:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
billshook(at)mindspring.com writes:
>
> uh...I really hate to ask stupid questions, but since I know next to
nothing
> about Lycosaurs every question I ask will be stupid. What is the
difference
> between an overhauled engine and a zero timed engine? I know brand new
> would be zero time, but the O-320 in question has 2200TT so, I'm assuming
it
> can't be new. :) I'm confused, and I hate that so someone please
> enlighten me. I thought I understood that a rebuild is top end, and a
major
> overhaul includes the bottom end. Now you throw in this zero timed
> description and I'm completely lost again. :) Oh well, long time to go
> before I buy one of these rediculously overpriced, overaged, out of date
> dinosaurs....so I guess I don't really need to know yet.
>
> HS-403, 409 ready for prime.....HS-411 finished and waiting. HS-410 cut to
> shape and deburred.....not bad for my first evening after work? I'm
having
> a blast.
>
> Bill
Bill,
The really short answer is that only the factory can zero-time an engine -
working some special magic that the A&P's on the list can describe. I think
it has to do with the crank shaft being replaced and most major parts being
replaced, and most tolerances set to a higher standard - my impression is
that not much will be left of the original engine.
I notice your disrespect of the Lycosaurs demigod :-) Good for you, but
please dont be too hard on them or they will raise prices again... ahh, go
ahead, prices are going up anyway.
Have you considered an alternative? I spent about 3 months researching the
possibilities and came to the expected conclusions: 1) most reasonable
alternatives can be made to work with enough time and effort (as evidenced by
the fact that many are indeed working). 2) It seems that the extra effort and
weight penalty and questionable (by some) reliability make them not really
worth while.
That is, until I found what I believe to be the exception. The Mazda 13B
Rotary. This engine is running in no less than 5 RV's and many more are
being planned. I am installing this engine and here is the skinny on what I
feel is very reasonable estimate of what I am facing (now, after 6 months of
research). 1) Power will be equal to or greater than an O-360. 2)
Installed weight will be about the same as the 360, 3) It will take me an
extra 2-4mos. to do the instillation 4) Fuel burn will be about the same (or
possibly slightly better than) on O-360 run at similar power setting, 4)
Because of the really experimental nature, the first 40 hrs are probably more
likely to be associated with power plant failure - this is because of fuel,
air, or spark problems in an original setup, NOT because of engine failure.
5) TBO will easily match real world experience with the Lycosaurs, and most
likely far exceed Lyc TBO times. 6) Rebuilds will be measure in hundreds of
dollars, not thousands. 7) instillation of an essentially zero-time engine,
dual redundant electronic ignition and fuel injection and PSRU will cost
under $10k. 8) You could also spend as little as $4k and it will take a
little longer or you could spend $20k and get an engine that was 210hp,
lighter than an O-360 and ready to install. 8) Maintenance costs will then
be a mere fraction of Lycos costs. and here is the kicker 9) IMHO, a tested
Rotary will be far more reliable and trouble free than a Lyc!
"Pishaw!", say many on the list. But I am sure that there is no one who know
a lot about the rotary and says that! Consider these points: The rotary
has no valves to burn, no rods, no cams, no lifters all of which create a lot
of drag. The E-shaft in the rotary (analogous to the crank) is bombproof!!!
It never breaks or twists out. Drag racers tweak the 13B up to 900hp and use
stock e-shafts without problem! While the e-shaft will be going at a brisk
5000-7000 rpm in most aircraft applications, the rotors are only turning 1/3
that speed, and have less acceleration forces than the pistons in the lyc!!
The early(1970/ early 80's) problems that the rotary had with apex seal
problems have been largely fixed thanks to a new material and aircraft oiling
practice. Its true that the specific fuel burn will never be quite as good
in the rotary as in the best pistons - but the 13B can still beat the Lyc in
specific fuel burn.
Anyway, thanks for getting me started. If I have at all peaked your
interest, I urge you to do just a little research on your own. I started
(thanks to the recommendations of someone on this list) with a subscription
and back issues of Contact! magazine. This is a story of the trial and
tribulations of many different auto conversions. If you want to jump right
into researching the rotary, I recommend the conversion book by Tracy Crook,
who put 900 hrs on his RV-4 powered by a junkyard 13B. When he tore the
engine down to inspect - it was still pristine. A training gyrocoptor has
2700 hrs of hard duty on a junkyard 13B that was rebuilt once at 1000 hrs
(for a few hundred bucks).
Tracy has become so enthraled with the 13B (like I have - it is the same
feeling as the feeling I got when I finally realized that it was absolutely
the right decision to build an RV) that he has developed several excellent
products to make the instillation easier. See his website at:
www.rotaryaviation.com
Powersport as making a firewall forward package for the RV's. David Atkins
makes engines and accesories and flys a 13B powered RV-6. There are a couple
of e-mail lists about the rotary similar to this RV list. And I maintain a
roster of 90+ people who are installing a rotary in their aircraft (and there
are many more, especially the already flying ones, who are not on my roster).
My website has links to the other sites I mention.
http://members.aol.com/RotaryRoster/index.html
Now its time for bed...
Dave Leonard
RV-6 QB, N4VY (reserved)
Fuselage
Mazda 13B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine advice |
Scott,
Forgot to memtion that the engine came with original log books, Governor,
Vacumm pump and all the yellow tags.
Chuck Rowbotham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylorelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: glowing floodlight |
PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> One of my eyeball floodlights glows whenever the master switch is on.
Mine does the same thing in my -4. Far as I can tell it is nothing to worry
about.
It is hardly noticeable in the daylight, and at night they will be turned
up.
Carroll Bird, Buffalo Gap TX -4, 65 hours now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Wischmeyer <edwisch(at)aa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The Screw up has arrived |
> Of course that approach is also partly why I have been working on this
> project for 5 years and still have a year to go.
The real question is, how long has it been / will it be at one year to
go? My new cowling has been one month to go for almost a year now...
Ed
--
REPLY TO FUNCTION HAS A SPAM BLOCK ON IT
USE THIS RETURN ADDRESS: edwisch(at)aa.net
Web page: http://members.aa.net/~edwisch
Ed Wischmeyer
name="edwisch.vcf"
filename="edwisch.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Wischmeyer;Ed
tel;fax:425 898-9566
tel;home:425 898-9856
url:http://members.aa.net/~edwisch
adr:;;18615 NE 53rd Street;Redmond;WA;98052;
version:2.1
email;internet:edwisch(at)aa.net
fn:Ed Wischmeyer
end:vcard
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine advice |
Seems hi to me. A dash nothing engine isn't of itself a bad thing BUT, its
history is sure suspect. Are their any logs ?? What do the logs say ?? How
early is the serial Number(s). At the right price and a complete teardown
inspection with a guarantee of a servicable crank......................... 3500
to 4500 $ would be my target. This is a pig in a poke to a certain degree......
svanarts(at)unionsafe.com on 03/21/2000 08:31:28 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Engine advice
I have a line on an O-320 dash nothing. 2200 TT, 0 SMOH. The seller said the
data plate on the engine just says O-320. It came out of an old Mooney. He
said he believes it is equivalent to a -A1A. He's asking $11,995. Good
deal or not? Any questions I should ask? This is my first engine purchase
and I feel way out of my league. Any help from the list would be
appreciated!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine advice |
Sometimes a dash nothing was assembled with parts that are ok...but not
according to the orginal dash number on the case. The assembler can have a data
plate reissued with a dash nothing........ Sometimes experimental types (us) do
this to side-step issues.
dburton(at)foxinternet.net on 03/21/2000 09:29:37 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice
Van Artsdalen, Scott wrote:
>
> I have a line on an O-320 dash nothing. 2200 TT, 0 SMOH. The seller said the
> data plate on the engine just says O-320.
Hi Scott,
Does it include the accessories, and was it an overhaul, rebuild or zero
timed
engine?
That information can help us better give you a value.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Altimeter Calibration |
It can be reset without much difficulty. It is done all the time. There is
a screw cap just above the setting knob. Loosen until the head is just free
of the recess, gently push up away from the setting knob, you can then set
the dial separate from the window. Make the two setting agree, let loose of
the screw to let the [pin back into the setting shaft, and screw it back in
to complete the lock. DO NOT over tighten.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rywessel(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:36 PM
Subject: RV-List: Altimeter Calibration
>
> Listers-
>
> I just recently purchased an unused appears new (manufactured 3/99) United
> altimeter from an online auction. I plan on using this on my RV-6A
project.
> The problem I have is that the unit reads 350 ft low. Is this a broken
> altimeter or is just a routine calibration need to be performed? I don't
want
> to spend money getting the unit certified until the plane is ready so I
can
> get it endorsed w/the static system and encoder. Do have a broken
altimeter
> or should I stay calm and take it to the shop.
>
> thanks,
>
> robin wessel
> RV-6A
> Tigard, OR
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
Lot's of opinions at the locations mentioned but not all of the info is
accurate.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: EXP-Bus
>
>In a message dated 3/21/00 7:01:11 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>dshenk(at)ruralhealth.org writes:
>
><< Can anyone share with me any serious safety concerns of having circuit
>protection
> that resets itself. I have reviewed the cost, convenience, and general
>information
> re: the exp-bus and don't want to reopen that thread. My simplistic
>question is:
> If I install this board and do not attempt to repeatedly reset a blown
>circuit (same
> as if I had circuit breakers) am I exposing myself to any significant risk
>that I'm
> not aware of? >>
>
>Lots of info in the RV-archives on the EXP-Bus and at electric Bob's site
><http://www.aeroelectric.com>
>
>My opinion. Don't waste your money.
>
>-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
>vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Doupe'" <rdoupe(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine advice |
The last Mooney to use the O-320 was in 1959. There has been many upgrades
to the O-320 in the past 41 years. I think I would pass.
-----Original Message-----
From: pcondon(at)csc.com <pcondon(at)csc.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice
>
>
>Seems hi to me. A dash nothing engine isn't of itself a bad thing BUT,
its
>history is sure suspect. Are their any logs ?? What do the logs say ??
How
>early is the serial Number(s). At the right price and a complete teardown
>inspection with a guarantee of a servicable crank.........................
3500
>to 4500 $ would be my target. This is a pig in a poke to a certain
degree......
>
>
>svanarts(at)unionsafe.com on 03/21/2000 08:31:28 PM
>
>Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>Subject: RV-List: Engine advice
>
>
>
>I have a line on an O-320 dash nothing. 2200 TT, 0 SMOH. The seller said
the
>data plate on the engine just says O-320. It came out of an old Mooney.
He
>said he believes it is equivalent to a -A1A. He's asking $11,995. Good
>deal or not? Any questions I should ask? This is my first engine purchase
>and I feel way out of my league. Any help from the list would be
>appreciated!
>
>--
>Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
>Network Administrator
>Union Safe Deposit Bank
>209-946-5116
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | : Altimeter Calibration |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
If your remove the screw (cover) at 7 oclock.
Then slide the locking block inside outboard, you can then pull on the
set knob to disingage the neetle from the pressure. adjust to local
pressure, then lock it back.
now go fly. Not what you call certified, butttttt will give an idea that
is works.
Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
**********************************************************************
>
> Listers-
>
> I just recently purchased an unused appears new (manufactured 3/99)
> United altimeter from an online auction. I plan on using this on my
RV-6A
> project.
> robin wessel
> RV-6A
> Tigard, OR
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fitting tanks to wing |
Hi guys,
I received my tanks back from Evan Johnson on Monday and they look great.
However, when I fit the right tank to the wing this morning, I noted a couple
of gaps. I've got a call in to Evan about this, but I thought I might
solicit the list's input.
With the leading edge of the tank skin butted up to the leading edge of the
leading edge skin (over the W-423), I've got an 1/8" gap between the trailing
edge corners of the two skins, top & bottom. Looked at by itself, that would
seem to indicate that I need to file away some of the outboard edge of the
tank skin to make it fit flush with the leading edge skin. That brings me to
the other gap: the butt joint between the trailing edge of the tank skin and
the inboard main wing skins, top & bottom. The only place where the skins
butt nicely is at the top inboard corner. The other three corners all have
between 1/16" & 1/8" gap. Also, it appears that all the Z-brackets are
sitting down on the spar correctly.
Am I being overly picky here? If I can file the outboard edge of the tank
skin enough to match the holes in the top of the spar, should I just drill it
all into place right there and count on the paint to cover the minor gaps?
Regards,
Ken Balch
Ashland, MA
RV-8 #81125
wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: glowing floodlight |
>
> Mine does the same thing in my -4. Far as I can tell it is nothing to
worry
> about.
> It is hardly noticeable in the daylight, and at night they will be
turned
> up.
>
> Carroll Bird, Buffalo Gap TX -4, 65 hours now.
>
Mine does also. Thanks normal.
Doug Weiler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine advice |
svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
> >
> >I have a line on an O-320 dash nothing. 2200 TT, 0
> SMOH. The seller said
> the
> >data plate on the engine just says O-320. It came
> out of an old Mooney.
> He
> >said he believes it is equivalent to a -A1A. He's
> asking $11,995. Good
> >deal or not? Any questions I should ask? This is
> my first engine purchase
> >and I feel way out of my league. Any help from the
> list would be
> >appreciated!
> >
> >--
> >Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
> >Network Administrator
> >Union Safe Deposit Bank
> >209-946-5116
Scott:
The very early O-320 was a dash nothing. YES.
Lycoming did manufacture a O-320 with no dash numbers.
It is hard to say if this is a good engine or price.
Being an A & P, I know I can REBUILD an O-320 in the
field to NEW specifications for the money that you
would be paying. If the engine was indeed rebuilt to
new specifications using NEW cylinders, I would buy it
for $12K. If it is overhauled with chrome cylinders,
I would not want it even though it may be worth the
price. I am asuming that this is a CERTIFIED engine.
Read some of the other posts. They point out other
stuff to think about.
In addition to Lycon, Performance Aero Engines (@ POC)
can obtain and "build" your engine. Either as a
certificated or EXPERIMENTAL engine.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
Flying So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Arthur Glaser <airplane(at)corecomm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: glowing floodlight |
According to electric Bob, a small voltage will keep the filaments warm and
pliable. Therefore they should last longer. This glow may not be a bad thing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Japundza, Bob" <bjapundza(at)dowagro.com> |
| Subject: | temporary wing rigging |
Hi Listers,
The tasks left on my -6 are dwindling and in a few weeks I will be rigging
the wings and I have a few questions about mounting them temporarily.
My fuselage is done and am still working on the wings. My intention is to
bolt on the wings and set the incidence angles, but I am going to paint the
wings before I fly (the fuse is already painted.) Should I use hardware
store bolts to bolt the wings on temporarily, and avoid for now the
center-section close tolerance bolts? Will doing this provide enough
accuracy in rigging the wings? How many bolts are enough to do the job?
Also, it appears that the main-spar to rear spar distance doesn't exactly
match the spar carry-through to the rear spar attach points. Looks like on
the right side the distance between the spar attach points on the fuse are
about 1/16-3/32 wider than the distance between the main spar stub and the
rear spar stub. I'm gathering that something needs to bend to make them
fit; has anyone had this problem? I'm thinking that some re-bending of the
fuselage rear-spar attach will do the trick...I'm just wondering how much
bending those bars can take before they're going to be weakened.
Thanks!
Bob Japundza
Dow AgroSciences Information Management
Broadwing IT Consulting
bob.japundza(at)broadwing.com
bjapundza(at)dowagro.com
317-337-5348
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Noel" <bnoel(at)ausa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Altimeter Calibration |
They are adjustable.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rywessel(at)aol.com <Rywessel(at)aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:46 PM
Subject: RV-List: Altimeter Calibration
>
>Listers-
>
>I just recently purchased an unused appears new (manufactured 3/99) United
>altimeter from an online auction. I plan on using this on my RV-6A project.
>The problem I have is that the unit reads 350 ft low. Is this a broken
>altimeter or is just a routine calibration need to be performed? I don't
want
>to spend money getting the unit certified until the plane is ready so I can
>get it endorsed w/the static system and encoder. Do have a broken altimeter
>or should I stay calm and take it to the shop.
>
>thanks,
>
>robin wessel
>RV-6A
>Tigard, OR
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Forward canopy |
I would also like a photo. Other than going to a real RV4 they just dont
seem to be any photos of the front of canopy especialy the right front.
Earl about to start on the canopy again.
Dave Hyde wrote:
>
>
> Howdy,
>
> Has anyone here got a pointer to a good photo or drawing of an
> RV-4 canopy and frame? I'm particularly interested in the forward
> portion where the skin meets the frame, and the plans/manual
> just don't cut it.
>
> Dave Hyde
> nauga(at)brick.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How Skybolt Lost my Business |
I have been told that Hale Wallace has cancer and that the Skybolt
business is for sale. Don't know if this has any bearing on the
service or not. Just thought you might want to know.
KBoatri144(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Despite the fact that I don't want to start a never ending thread on
> "Builders who Love/Hate Skybolt", I though this was worth sharing...
>
> Skybolt has good prices, and shows a tremendous selection of fasteners,
> fittings, etc. in their catalog, but I've given up on them. Why? Because
> they have turned into the gang that can't shoot straight (at least on my
> recent order). About 3 weeks ago, I called and ordered all of the firewall
> forward plumbing goodies for my plane. Three weeks, a half dozen phone
> calls, and an e-mail later I have absolutely nothing in hand, despite
> repeated promises that the parts would ship "today", "this week", or
> whatever.
>
> The final straw was when I talked to them today, inquiring about the shipment
> I was supposed to get last Friday. They said "oops,we shipped it second day,
> not next day" (As it turns out, they must have shipped it third day, 'cause
> it still isn't here). Also, instead of only being backordered on "one size
> of firesleeve" as I was told last Thursday, it turns out I'm backordered on
> firesleeve, hose, and fittings to the point that IF I had in hand what they
> say has shipped, I still wouldn't be able to build even ONE complete hose.
>
> To add insult to injury, they couldn't tell me when they would have the
> backordered items. On reciept of this joyous news, I canceled the remainder
> of the order, and will go through ACS or Summit Racing.
>
> The lesson here is IF you order through Skybolt, make sure they have
> everything in stock BEFORE you commit to an order.
>
> Ironically, if you get put on hold by Skybolt, you get to hear a recording
> extolling the selection of hose and fittings they carry.
>
> Kyle Boatright
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: temporary wing rigging |
>
>Hi Listers,
>
>The tasks left on my -6 are dwindling and in a few weeks I will be rigging
>the wings and I have a few questions about mounting them temporarily.
>
>My fuselage is done and am still working on the wings. My intention is to
>bolt on the wings and set the incidence angles, but I am going to paint the
>wings before I fly (the fuse is already painted.) Should I use hardware
>store bolts to bolt the wings on temporarily, and avoid for now the
>center-section close tolerance bolts? Will doing this provide enough
>accuracy in rigging the wings? How many bolts are enough to do the job?
>
>Also, it appears that the main-spar to rear spar distance doesn't exactly
>match the spar carry-through to the rear spar attach points. Looks like on
>the right side the distance between the spar attach points on the fuse are
>about 1/16-3/32 wider than the distance between the main spar stub and the
>rear spar stub. I'm gathering that something needs to bend to make them
>fit; has anyone had this problem? I'm thinking that some re-bending of the
>fuselage rear-spar attach will do the trick...I'm just wondering how much
>bending those bars can take before they're going to be weakened.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Bob Japundza
Bob,
On my -8, I bought some hardware store bolts and ground the tips to a round
point. I only needed four for each wing to hold them in place. With these
bolts, you can freely smack on them with a hammer or mallet to drive them in
and save the close tolerance wing bolts for the final mounting. The rear
spar attach clevis on the -8 can be tweaked a bit forward or aft to allow
the spar stub to slip into place with a little coaxing with a screwdriver.
A 16th inch or so shouldn't be a big deal at all. You'll make it work. I
thought mine were off the same amount, and stressed over it most of the
night previous to gathering up three buddies the next day to do the actual
mounting. It was a breeze! Slipped right in.
The hardware store bolts are plenty accurate for setting the wing incidence.
Just make MANY passes with whatever measuring tools you use to set the
incidence and wing sweep. Then, go take a break, get some coffee (decaf!)
and measure again. THEN, you're ready to drill the rear spar attach bolt
holes. I used a smart level which worked extremely well. A laser transit is
the best you can get.
Have fun!
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
63 hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Eratic fuel flow indications (floscan transducer, EIS 4000, O-360 |
A1A)
Listers,
My Grand Rapids EIS-4000 engine monitor (which uses the standard
FloScan 201 fuel flow transducer) has indicated fluctuating fuel flow
since I began using it (40 hours total on aircraft). In flight (or when
running the engine on the ground), I'd see flow rates that vary by up
to +- 0.5 gph in just a few seconds. (I have an O-360 A1A,
carbeurated). My fuel system is: tank - filter - L/R valve - floscan -
Facet pump - gascolator - engine fuel pump - carb. Grand Rapids was
happy to send me a new floscan transducer, but it didn't help, nor did
moving the transducer to a location between the gascolator and the
engine fuel pump.
In addition, when the Facet fuel pump was on, the indicated flow rate
jumped up at least 1 gph.
I spent the weekend trying different transducer locations, then I called
FloScan on Monday (FloScan provides transducers to most of the fuel
flow and engine monitor manufacturers). It turns out the diaphram
pump on the engine (and the Facet pump) produce pulses that travel
back down the fuel tube to the FloScan transducer's turbine. The
pulses cause the turbine to momentarily stutter or turn back just a bit.
This causes the FloScan to generate more pulses than it should,
indicating an incorrectly high fuel flow. The random interaction
between the pulses and the normal fuel flow caused my fluctuating
flow rate indications.
FloScan recommended two possible solutions. Rather than using the
201 transducer, they make a 264 transducer, with an internal
dampening diaphram. But they won't sell to individuals, just avionics
companies. The other alternative is a pulse absorber, which is just a
1.5" metal sphere inserted in the fuel line between the transducer and
the fuel pump(s). Air trapped in the sphere compresses when the
pulses come along, absorbing the pulses so they don't screw up the
transducer. They won't sell the sphere for aviation use, however, only
for boats. Instead of the $30 metal sphere, I tried a $3 Fram G-3 fuel
filter. It's about 1.5" diameter, comes with 3/8" ID hose to mate with -6
aluminum fuel lines, and is transparent (so you can be sure there is air
trapped in the filter housing).
Problem solved. When flying in level flight, the fuel flow indication is
now steady. When I turn on the fuel pump the flow rate initially
surges as the pump pulls fuel from the filter, but the flow rate then
returns to normal as the flow stabilizes.
Another problem licked!
Tim
******
Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vision Microsystem Fuel Probes |
I have a possible idea. If you could mount a drill bit (unibit?) in the end of
a 4 feet long tube you might be able to drill the needed holes through the
ribs. I don't think that it's a problem that the outer fuel sender tube touches
the ribs (electrically). You'd need to verify this with the manufacturer of the
senders.
I'm not sure that you'll be able to drill the holes at the proper diagonal
slant, but maybe?
Finn
Gary Graham wrote:
>
> I am trying to install the fuel gauges for Vision Microsystem in my RV-8
> QB. Since my tanks are already complete I can't figure out a way to get the
> probes installed. The probes are about 4' long and are supposed to be
> inserted into the tank from the lowest point to the highest point. The
> probes can be cut to any useable length but you lose accuracy as you
> shorten. If I try to install with out tearing the tanks apart, the best I
> can get is about 18" into the tank. I'm afraid this will give me accurate
> readings for only the bottom of the tank.
>
> Has anyone run into this problem? Van's says build the probes into the tank
> but that is not an option. Are there any other probes that accomkplish the
> job without dismantling the entire tank?
>
> Gary Graham
> RV-8 QB
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com> |
| Subject: | Re: temporary wing rigging |
> Just make MANY passes with whatever measuring tools you use to set the
> incidence and wing sweep. Then, go take a break, get some coffee (decaf!)
> and measure again. THEN, you're ready to drill the rear spar attach bolt
> holes. I used a smart level which worked extremely well. A laser transit
is
> the best you can get.
Bob,
One more comment; just wanted to second Brian's advice on measuring many
times and also let you know that the Smart Level is INVALUABLE. I borrowed
one from a friend and wouldn't consider doing it without one.
To any other early stage builders listening, in retrospect I now consider
the Smart Level a mandatory tool for building an RV. You probably don't need
it for the empennage (although it could help there too), but for the
critical operations of mounting both the wings and empennage there is no
substitute... SPEND THE MONEY!
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, how can it take three evenings to get engine control cables
working right?
www.pacifier.com/~randyl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com> |
| Subject: | Re: temporary wing rigging |
> My fuselage is done and am still working on the wings. My intention is to
> bolt on the wings and set the incidence angles, but I am going to paint
the
> wings before I fly (the fuse is already painted.) Should I use hardware
> store bolts to bolt the wings on temporarily, and avoid for now the
> center-section close tolerance bolts? Will doing this provide enough
> accuracy in rigging the wings? How many bolts are enough to do the job?
>
> Also, it appears that the main-spar to rear spar distance doesn't exactly
> match the spar carry-through to the rear spar attach points. Looks like
on
> the right side the distance between the spar attach points on the fuse are
> about 1/16-3/32 wider than the distance between the main spar stub and the
> rear spar stub. I'm gathering that something needs to bend to make them
> fit; has anyone had this problem? I'm thinking that some re-bending of
the
> fuselage rear-spar attach will do the trick...I'm just wondering how much
> bending those bars can take before they're going to be weakened.
> Bob Japundza
Bob,
Regarding mounting your wings, my recommendation is to use the close
tolerance bolts. Any slop at all at the junction can yield a bit error at
the wing tip. Keep in mind that you will be setting not only the incidence
but the sweep as well. When I mounted my -8 wings I used the normal bolts
but stored them in the freezer for a few hours first. Then I sprayed them
with Boeshield just before inserting them... popped right in with a rubber
mallet. Taking them back out wasn't the big deal I expected, I think the
Boeshield really helped there.
Regarding the main spar to rear spar dimension discrepency, perhaps other
builders will comment. The -8 builder's manual has you specifically measure
this dimension and make sure it matches your already-built wings at one
point during fuse construction, so mine matched perfectly. I seem to recall
some discussion on this a year or so ago, perhaps checking the archives will
yield something. Of course you can always call Van's for advice on this. Tom
Green might be a good person to ask and he works mon/tues/weds.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, plumbing and wiring
www.pacifier.com/~randyl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: glowing floodlight |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine advice |
pcondon(at)csc.com wrote:
>
> Seems hi to me. A dash nothing engine isn't of itself a bad thing BUT, its
> history is sure suspect. Are their any logs ?? What do the logs say ?? How
> early is the serial Number(s). At the right price and a complete teardown
> inspection with a guarantee of a servicable crank......................... 3500
> to 4500 $ would be my target. This is a pig in a poke to a certain degree......
>
Listers;
Be careful of engines that you do not know the history of, even if logs are
available.
Several years ago, I advertised a sump for an 0-320-E2G, a rear carb mount from
a
Grumman. I was contacted by a list member who asked if the sump still contained
the
tag. I replied that it did and also I had the logs for the tag. The person was
willing to pay 3 times as much for the sump if the log book was included.
What do you think he was going to do with that sump and log book?
John Kitz
N721JHK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eratic fuel flow indications (floscan transducer, EIS 4000, |
O-360 A1A)
> FloScan recommended two possible solutions. Rather than using the
> 201 transducer, they make a 264 transducer, with an internal
> dampening diaphram. But they won't sell to individuals, just avionics
> companies. The other alternative is a pulse absorber, which is just a
> 1.5" metal sphere inserted in the fuel line between the transducer and
> the fuel pump(s). Air trapped in the sphere compresses when the
> pulses come along, absorbing the pulses so they don't screw up the
> transducer. They won't sell the sphere for aviation use, however, only
> for boats
Tim,
Great post, thanks! Many folks have complained of this problem over the last
couple of years, your effort benefits us all. Did they say how much the 264
transducer is? And where did you end up leaving your flow transducer after
trying it in different places?
I'm just about to install my fuel plumbing so your information is very
timely.
Thanks,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, plumbing & wiring
www.pacifier.com/~randyl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter laurence <plaurenc(at)bellsouth.net> |
Listers,
Can anyone tell me why Van's call for flush rivets for the rear flanges
of the inboard and outboard fuel tank ribs on the RV6?
Thanks
Peter Laurence
wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris & Kellie Hand" <ckhand(at)earthlink.net> |
I think it's just because they don't stock the -3 size rivets with the round
head, but in any case, I mistakenly drilled those holes to the #30 size on
one of my tanks. Van's e-mail support answer to me was to go ahead and use
the AN470-4 rivets there since I made the holes too big.
Chris Hand
RV-6A
>
> Listers,
>
> Can anyone tell me why Van's call for flush rivets for the rear flanges
> of the inboard and outboard fuel tank ribs on the RV6?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Peter Laurence
> wings
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dgmurray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: temporary wing rigging |
Subject: Re: RV-List: temporary wing rigging
> > Just make MANY passes with whatever measuring tools you use to set the
> > incidence and wing sweep. Then, go take a break, get some coffee
(decaf!)
> > and measure again. THEN, you're ready to drill the rear spar attach bolt
> > holes. I used a smart level which worked extremely well. A laser
transit
> is the best you can get.
>
>
> Bob,
> One more comment; just wanted to second Brian's advice on measuring many
> times and also let you know that the Smart Level is INVALUABLE. I borrowed
> one from a friend and wouldn't consider doing it without one.
>
> To any other early stage builders listening, in retrospect I now consider
> the Smart Level a mandatory tool for building an RV. You probably don't
need
> it for the empennage (although it could help there too), but for the
> critical operations of mounting both the wings and empennage there is no
> substitute... SPEND THE MONEY!
>
> Randy Lervold
> RV-8, #80500, how can it take three evenings to get engine control cables
> working right?
> www.pacifier.com/~randyl
Boy! I must be cheap !! I don't have a Smart level but used a piece of
vinyl tubing with some food coloring and water inside it. I figured that if
water would always find its' own level, that ought to be close enough for
me. Total cost for this water level was about five bucks. I used a 25' tape
measure to square up the wing squareness and dangled plumb bobs from the
leading edge of the wing to check on wing sweep. The total job took me about
a day and it came out right. I think that sometimes we have a tendancy to
think that if our tools are not the latest gizmos, then our methods are in
error. (No flames intended toward anyone) I like the fancy tools too, but I
think that we should let the new builders know that they won't always have
to mortgage the house to buy tools - Just be ready to spend LOTS on the
avionics and finishing touches :-))
-----------------------------------------------------
Doug Murray RV-6 C-GRPA Getting real close !!
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dgmurray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
Subject: RV-List: Tank Ribs
> Listers,
>
> Can anyone tell me why Van's call for flush rivets for the rear flanges
> of the inboard and outboard fuel tank ribs on the RV6?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Peter Laurence
> wings
Thats a good question. There is really no reason that I can see because they
are "hanging in the air" and have no other interference to speak of. I
followed the plans though and the dimpling took hardly any time at all and
it did look better (under the ProSeal) :-))
-----------------------------------------------------
Doug Murray RV-6
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | VP4SkyDoc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: panel planer electric panel |
In a message dated 3/22/2000 2:30:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
ABAYMAN(at)aol.com writes:
> dear listers
> anyone have any knowledge of composite designs, the maker of the
electrical
> switch and breakers all in one unit on panel planner? i've been calling
> their # for 3 days and no one picks up. is there an equal product out
there,
>
> if so who what where etc.
> thanks
> scott
I was in a marine hardware store yesterday and found a pre-made pannel. It
was light and alum. (about 1 #) but the connections appeared to be of high
quality. The switches were lit and fuses easily accessable. Six switches
and fuses on each pre-made eletrical pannel for $20. Fuses of assorted size
included alont with mounting hardware. Now if only I could figure a good use
for a "bilge pump" on my RV-6 :-)
From the catalog:
"Illuminated rocker switches let you know which circutis are on, and pop-out
fuse holders are easy to work with. Features brass eletrical wiring, bars,
and stick-on labels. Use with AGC fuses rated up to 15 amps. Ship 1lb."
Four-gang 3.5"Wx3 15/16"H, 19.99
Six gang: 4.5"x6.5", 21.99
Order at 1800-937-2628
Dave Leonard
Mazda RV-6 N4VY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | VP4SkyDoc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engines-List: Rotary vs. LyCon |
In a message dated 3/22/2000 7:15:25 PM Pacific Standard Time,
stol_pilot(at)myezmail.com writes:
> How about an easy 160hp out of an unmodified 80 cu.in. [rotary] engine? How
> long will it last? Is that TBO theoretical or emperical? Based on what I've
> seen of other rotary engine installations, your easy 160hp FWF will weigh
> close to the same as an O360 FWF, and since I don't have your expertise to
> build it myself, you'll charge me about the same as I'd pay for the
> overhauled Lycoming.
>
Well, now we are into a matter of semantics. What do we mean by easy and
unmodified? Any engine that was built for one application will have to be
changed to some extent... but that is not necessarily bad. I'll make
comparisons to installing a rebuilt Lyc. To put in a Mazda in an RV, you
could expect to do the following: 1) find and buy a used engine Time -
availability is comparable but Mazda=$400-$800 You fill in $$$ for the Lyc.
2) Have the engine torn down and inspected and rebuilt. Mazda $3000 for
mostly new parts. Lyc = $$$$$ Like with the Lyc, some will feel comfortable
doing this themselves. There is a great video available for the Rotary
showing this process (as I'm sure there is for the Lyc too).
We are the same so far except for cost. Has it been easy? Now here are the
extra things you must do for the Mazda conversion, all detailed in Tracy
Crooks conversion manual...
1) Disable the stock oil injection - a simple process that takes about an
hour as part of the rebuild (either by you or someone else).
2) Older engines will require an easy mod to one of the coolant gaskets.
3) Now, to give yourself 10-20 extra HP, you could have the intake ported
for several hundred $, but we are still way under what you have spent for the
overhauled Lyc and it hasn't been any more difficult at all. How does this
affect reliability? Well, ported cars putting out 350 hp with no oil
injection mod are known to blow apex seals. However, at less than 230 hp in
the aircraft with the oil mod it is a non factor IMHO, but no one can say for
sure.
4) You will have to modify or rebuild your engine mount (yup, this is a big
pain). However, one builder just installed an engine using an adapter that
fit directly on the stock dynafocal. I am hoping that the machinist who made
it will make some more of these sub-mounts.
5) You will have to supply fuel, spark and air. Tracy Crook makes an engine
controller which supplies electronic ignition based on the stock crank angle
sensor. It also provides cockpit adjustable electronic fuel injection.
There are two completely independent computers which can each run the two
injectors and two spark plugs in each combustion chamber. There is also a
third limp home mode. The whole system costs under a $1000. There will soon
also be a monitor showing Fuel flow (solving the EFI fuel flow problem) Total
fuel, MPG, RPM, and MAP. Try finding that for a Lyc!!! Supplying air is a
little tougher. Tracy supplies instructions on making an intake from stock
parts, and a couple of vendors are supplying bolt on manifolds.
6) Exhaust needs to be made custom (so far), a couple of suppliers do this
for RV's as well.
7) Cooling is a hassle. This is where time and weight will be gained or
lost. I haven't heard of anyone who never got it to work. But at least you
wont have to do any baffling. You also get the advantages of liquid cooling
(no shock cooling, less cooling drag possible) and disadvantage (another
system to fail) and still stay at the weight/CG of the designed engine.
So, what's the bottom line? IMHO An easily modified uncareful instillation
will produce about 160 hp. Now be careful with the instillation, tune the
intake and exhaust, add a pressure phlem, and maybe some street porting and
get up to 210 hp. The instillation will weigh a little more or less than the
Lycs (remember, the 320 and 360 are only about 10# apart). There should be
plenty of space in the cowl of an RV6 or 8 to add turbocharging and get
around 250 hp. (the stock turbo in the car is rated at 285hp.)
Yup, it takes a little extra effort and time, but in the end you will spend
less for a considerably better product. Some guys have gone to a lot more
effort than this to install a 200 hp IO-360 in their RV-6(A). Is it worth
it? Is it worth it to build an RV instead of buying that Katanya, or Cirrus,
or Cessna? I think so. Just like building the RV, it doesn't take an
engineering degree or engine expertise (I have never done more than change my
oil), just a little extra love.. :-)
Someone asked about justification for 2000+ TBO. Theoretical? Yes. But not
like someone calculated it out on a CAD machine. One engine in a gyro is at
1700 SMOH and going strong. Tracy Crook ran his first engine for almost 900
hrs and had essentially no measurable wear, let alone reduction in hp,
compression or increase in EGT's. He also burned no measurable oil between
oil changes (every 50 hrs). Ever heard of a Lyc that did that? A few other
engines are in the 500 hr range (and counting) with similar results. The oil
injection mod is critical. If anyone owns an RX-7 that you want to keep
around for 3-4 hundred thousand miles, consider making this mod in your car.
Someone else mentioned resale value. Good point. Personally, I would much
rather have a proven rotary installation over a Lyc any day. But I am the
minority and will be for quite some time. My RV is a life long
project/investment. I don't plan to sell for several reasons (liability,
loss of my baby, never want to be this consumed with a hobby again etc..)
But if you think there is a good possibility you will someday sell, looks
like you are stuck with a Lycosaur.
Now, the ramblings you have just heard are those of a bookworm who is really
just beginning his project (gads). Please don't take my word for any of
this. I have found my engine research and tinkering to be as rewarding as
working on my RV. (talk to me again in a couple years ;-). The research
really isn't that hard. The only reason that I did it was because I was off
in Japan for six months with nothing else to do. But now I have seen the
light and it goes hmmmmmmmmm instead of boing boing boing.
Dave Leonard
Rotary RV-6 N4VY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Johnny Johnson <bbds(at)wiktel.com> |
| Subject: | Erratic FloScan readings |
Re: FloScan reading the pulses from fuel pump(s):
<<< The other alternative is a pulse absorber, which is just a
<<< 1.5" metal sphere inserted in the fuel line between the transducer and
<<< the fuel pump(s). Air trapped in the sphere compresses when the
<<< pulses come along, absorbing the pulses so they don't screw up the
<<< transducer...... Instead of the $30 metal sphere, I tried a $3
Fram
<<< G-3 fuel filter. It's about 1.5" diameter, comes with 3/8" ID
<<< hose to mate with -6 aluminum fuel lines, and is transparent
<<< (so you can be sure there is air trapped in the filter housing).
How about a short length of hose or metal tubing oriented vertically off a
T-fitting that goes nowhere but is capped to trap air in the "nowhere"
end... like the plumbers use to stop pounding in your water system... :=))
Johnny Johnson
49MM -3A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Parker43rp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: How Skybolt Lost my Business |
Listers--
There seems to be some confusion and erroneous information coming out on this
"Skybolt" thread. Hale Wallace ownes Steen Aero Lab, Inc. in Marion NC.
This company markets the Steen Skybolt and other bi-planesand parts, and also
sells the nice throttle quadrants discussed a few days ago on the list.
Skybolt Aeromotive Corp of Apopka, FL (really the subject of this thread) is
a company that markets nuts and bolts and other aircraft hardware.
These are two discrete companies and have no relationship to each other.
Ray Parker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
If you want to fly your RV, use the recommended engine
(Lycoming).
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/powerpla.htm
From the above line at Van's Aircraft:
"we simply cannot recommend or encourage the
installation of any other engine"
If you want a project that goes on forever where each
flight is a test, us any other engine.
If the alternate engine is such a great deal, lets see
them run in the races. Aircraft Spruce's Sun-n-fun
race, Copperstate Dash, or one of the R.A.C.E.
http://www.eracer.org/RACE/index.html Actually, lets
see them run in all the races all the time.
I put too much work into my airplane to RISK it with
an non-recommened powerplant. I want to fly, not have
a continous project.
For my hard earned money, I will take the best provern
most economical route and install a Lycoming in any
airplane that I build.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
Flying So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: temporary wing rigging |
Use 6 or 8 NAS bolts with non-locking nuts for fit up. Rear fuse. spar fork to
rear wing spar stubb does need some english to fit. I used some slip
shims(shoe-horns) and some judisious wiggeling to set them in place.
bjapundza(at)dowagro.com on 03/22/2000 04:51:32 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: temporary wing rigging
Hi Listers,
The tasks left on my -6 are dwindling and in a few weeks I will be rigging
the wings and I have a few questions about mounting them temporarily.
My fuselage is done and am still working on the wings. My intention is to
bolt on the wings and set the incidence angles, but I am going to paint the
wings before I fly (the fuse is already painted.) Should I use hardware
store bolts to bolt the wings on temporarily, and avoid for now the
center-section close tolerance bolts? Will doing this provide enough
accuracy in rigging the wings? How many bolts are enough to do the job?
Also, it appears that the main-spar to rear spar distance doesn't exactly
match the spar carry-through to the rear spar attach points. Looks like on
the right side the distance between the spar attach points on the fuse are
about 1/16-3/32 wider than the distance between the main spar stub and the
rear spar stub. I'm gathering that something needs to bend to make them
fit; has anyone had this problem? I'm thinking that some re-bending of the
fuselage rear-spar attach will do the trick...I'm just wondering how much
bending those bars can take before they're going to be weakened.
Thanks!
Bob Japundza
Dow AgroSciences Information Management
Broadwing IT Consulting
bob.japundza(at)broadwing.com
bjapundza(at)dowagro.com
317-337-5348
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Forward canopy |
How far from NJ ? your welcome to see my RV-4....
e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net on 03/22/2000 05:40:21 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Forward canopy
I would also like a photo. Other than going to a real RV4 they just dont
seem to be any photos of the front of canopy especialy the right front.
Earl about to start on the canopy again.
Dave Hyde wrote:
>
>
> Howdy,
>
> Has anyone here got a pointer to a good photo or drawing of an
> RV-4 canopy and frame? I'm particularly interested in the forward
> portion where the skin meets the frame, and the plans/manual
> just don't cut it.
>
> Dave Hyde
> nauga(at)brick.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
AS Vans has said... " the best engine conversion is to convert 5000 dollars into
a Lycoming engine.
rv6flier(at)yahoo.com on 03/23/2000 08:00:30 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Engines
If you want to fly your RV, use the recommended engine
(Lycoming).
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/powerpla.htm
From the above line at Van's Aircraft:
"we simply cannot recommend or encourage the
installation of any other engine"
If you want a project that goes on forever where each
flight is a test, us any other engine.
If the alternate engine is such a great deal, lets see
them run in the races. Aircraft Spruce's Sun-n-fun
race, Copperstate Dash, or one of the R.A.C.E.
http://www.eracer.org/RACE/index.html Actually, lets
see them run in all the races all the time.
I put too much work into my airplane to RISK it with
an non-recommened powerplant. I want to fly, not have
a continous project.
For my hard earned money, I will take the best provern
most economical route and install a Lycoming in any
airplane that I build.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
Flying So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engines-List: Rotary vs. LyCon |
Just a few questions and a correction on the LYC/rotary issue.
You say 220 hp out of the rotary pretty easily. That would be
wonderful.....at what RPM? I assume there is a reduction drive in there
somewhere, at what weight and how reliable and proven are they? Turbo
charged....now you're talking my language (I road race a turbo Porsche), but
again....turbo's are RPM dependant and require some pretty serious
cooling.....has anyone worked this out yet?
One final correction, I have seen one RV with a rotary at a fly in in
southeast Florida. It didn't quite go hmmmmm compared to the lycoming's
boing boing. It was more like a brrrrappppp brrrappp......which still
sounds a lot like the local lowered, curb feeler equipped, fuzzy dize
hanging Rx-7 boys to me. Now, that being said....a turbo acts much like a
muffler when the exhaust runs through it.......hmmm, wonder what that would
sound like. :-)
Bill
rv-4 emp
> > How about an easy 160hp out of an unmodified 80 cu.in. [rotary] engine?
How
> > long will it last? Is that TBO theoretical or emperical? Based on what
I've
> > seen of other rotary engine installations, your easy 160hp FWF will
weigh
> > close to the same as an O360 FWF, and since I don't have your expertise
to
> > build it myself, you'll charge me about the same as I'd pay for the
> > overhauled Lycoming.
> >
>
> Well, now we are into a matter of semantics. What do we mean by easy and
> unmodified? Any engine that was built for one application will have to be
> changed to some extent... but that is not necessarily bad. I'll make
> comparisons to installing a rebuilt Lyc. To put in a Mazda in an RV, you
> could expect to do the following: 1) find and buy a used engine Time -
> availability is comparable but Mazda=$400-$800 You fill in $$$ for the
Lyc.
> 2) Have the engine torn down and inspected and rebuilt. Mazda $3000 for
> mostly new parts. Lyc = $$$$$ Like with the Lyc, some will feel
comfortable
> doing this themselves. There is a great video available for the Rotary
> showing this process (as I'm sure there is for the Lyc too).
>
> We are the same so far except for cost. Has it been easy? Now here are
the
> extra things you must do for the Mazda conversion, all detailed in Tracy
> Crooks conversion manual...
> 1) Disable the stock oil injection - a simple process that takes about an
> hour as part of the rebuild (either by you or someone else).
>
> 2) Older engines will require an easy mod to one of the coolant gaskets.
>
> 3) Now, to give yourself 10-20 extra HP, you could have the intake ported
> for several hundred $, but we are still way under what you have spent for
the
> overhauled Lyc and it hasn't been any more difficult at all. How does
this
> affect reliability? Well, ported cars putting out 350 hp with no oil
> injection mod are known to blow apex seals. However, at less than 230 hp
in
> the aircraft with the oil mod it is a non factor IMHO, but no one can say
for
> sure.
>
> 4) You will have to modify or rebuild your engine mount (yup, this is a
big
> pain). However, one builder just installed an engine using an adapter
that
> fit directly on the stock dynafocal. I am hoping that the machinist who
made
> it will make some more of these sub-mounts.
>
> 5) You will have to supply fuel, spark and air. Tracy Crook makes an
engine
> controller which supplies electronic ignition based on the stock crank
angle
> sensor. It also provides cockpit adjustable electronic fuel injection.
> There are two completely independent computers which can each run the two
> injectors and two spark plugs in each combustion chamber. There is also a
> third limp home mode. The whole system costs under a $1000. There will
soon
> also be a monitor showing Fuel flow (solving the EFI fuel flow problem)
Total
> fuel, MPG, RPM, and MAP. Try finding that for a Lyc!!! Supplying air
is a
> little tougher. Tracy supplies instructions on making an intake from
stock
> parts, and a couple of vendors are supplying bolt on manifolds.
>
> 6) Exhaust needs to be made custom (so far), a couple of suppliers do
this
> for RV's as well.
>
> 7) Cooling is a hassle. This is where time and weight will be gained or
> lost. I haven't heard of anyone who never got it to work. But at least
you
> wont have to do any baffling. You also get the advantages of liquid
cooling
> (no shock cooling, less cooling drag possible) and disadvantage (another
> system to fail) and still stay at the weight/CG of the designed engine.
>
> So, what's the bottom line? IMHO An easily modified uncareful
instillation
> will produce about 160 hp. Now be careful with the instillation, tune the
> intake and exhaust, add a pressure phlem, and maybe some street porting
and
> get up to 210 hp. The instillation will weigh a little more or less than
the
> Lycs (remember, the 320 and 360 are only about 10# apart). There should
be
> plenty of space in the cowl of an RV6 or 8 to add turbocharging and get
> around 250 hp. (the stock turbo in the car is rated at 285hp.)
>
> Yup, it takes a little extra effort and time, but in the end you will
spend
> less for a considerably better product. Some guys have gone to a lot more
> effort than this to install a 200 hp IO-360 in their RV-6(A). Is it worth
> it? Is it worth it to build an RV instead of buying that Katanya, or
Cirrus,
> or Cessna? I think so. Just like building the RV, it doesn't take an
> engineering degree or engine expertise (I have never done more than change
my
> oil), just a little extra love.. :-)
>
> Someone asked about justification for 2000+ TBO. Theoretical? Yes. But
not
> like someone calculated it out on a CAD machine. One engine in a gyro is
at
> 1700 SMOH and going strong. Tracy Crook ran his first engine for almost
900
> hrs and had essentially no measurable wear, let alone reduction in hp,
> compression or increase in EGT's. He also burned no measurable oil
between
> oil changes (every 50 hrs). Ever heard of a Lyc that did that? A few
other
> engines are in the 500 hr range (and counting) with similar results. The
oil
> injection mod is critical. If anyone owns an RX-7 that you want to keep
> around for 3-4 hundred thousand miles, consider making this mod in your
car.
>
> Someone else mentioned resale value. Good point. Personally, I would
much
> rather have a proven rotary installation over a Lyc any day. But I am the
> minority and will be for quite some time. My RV is a life long
> project/investment. I don't plan to sell for several reasons (liability,
> loss of my baby, never want to be this consumed with a hobby again etc..)
> But if you think there is a good possibility you will someday sell, looks
> like you are stuck with a Lycosaur.
>
> Now, the ramblings you have just heard are those of a bookworm who is
really
> just beginning his project (gads). Please don't take my word for any of
> this. I have found my engine research and tinkering to be as rewarding as
> working on my RV. (talk to me again in a couple years ;-). The research
> really isn't that hard. The only reason that I did it was because I was
off
> in Japan for six months with nothing else to do. But now I have seen the
> light and it goes hmmmmmmmmm instead of boing boing boing.
>
> Dave Leonard
> Rotary RV-6 N4VY
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Peck" <dpeck(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Fluctuating airspeed & altitude |
Today I had the privilige to take my first RV-6 ride in Graham Hewitt's
recently completed quick build VH-ZKV.
Graham has spent the last two and a half years building this aircraft ( I
got my tail in the same container and haven't finished yet ) and is planning
to fly from Perth, Western Australia to the warbirds over Wanaka airshow in
New Zealand in two weeks.
He has a problem with the airspeed indicator fluctuating rapidly about
10 knots on climb out at 80 - 100 kt.
At a cruise of 150 kt at 25/25 the fluctuation decreases to bearly
noticable, and on landing at 80 - 100 kt it is much reduced. The altimeter
has slight fluctuations and this leads us to believe it is a static problem.
He has a stainless pitot with the union inside the wing and Van's flush
mounted static ports at the standard location, but they got painted over in
the paint shop who cleared them out.
The static system had some leaks which were fixed and it was thoroughly
tested using a test box from the T near the static ports to the instruments.
If anyone has any ideas that might help use fix this they would be
appreciated.
Thanks David Peck
RV-6A slooow build
Perth, Western Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Japundza, Bob" <bjapundza(at)dowagro.com> |
| Subject: | Eratic fuel flow indications (floscan transducer, EI |
S 4000, O-360 A1A)
I just got my floscan 201 transducer last week and sat looking at it in
disbelief thinking "how in the heck can 30 GPH flow through that tiny little
hole." The orfice inside the transducer "in" port is about the size of a
#30 hole. I debated sending it back to get a larger one, but I found some
specs on the 201A-6 and it should work fine:
Pressure drop 0.6 psi @ 15 GPH
Pressure drop 2.4 psi @ 30 GPH
working pressure 200 PSI
The 201B-6 is rated 1.2 psi @ 30 GPH, 4.8 psi at 60 GPH, and I do *believe*
the 264 is the same as this but with the integral dampening diaphragm. The
201B-6 is a less accurate below 1 GPH, no big deal.
If I had to do it over I'd get the 201B-6 with the fuel filter like Tim
mentions, that way the filter is doing something more useful than just
dampening the flow as the ball diaphragm does. Probably a few bucks cheaper
too.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 O-360 A1A/CS closer and closer
Great post, thanks! Many folks have complained of this problem over the last
couple of years, your effort benefits us all. Did they say how much the 264
transducer is? And where did you end up leaving your flow transducer after
trying it in different places?
I'm just about to install my fuel plumbing so your information is very
timely.
Thanks,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, plumbing & wiring
www.pacifier.com/~randyl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "christopher huey" <clhuey(at)sprynet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How Skybolt Lost my Business |
I just want to reiterate that Skybolt Engineering and Skybolt Fasteners are
NOT the same company. Hale Wallace has no relationship with the fastener
company mentioned in the thread.
C.H.
----------
> From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: How Skybolt Lost my Business
> Date: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 4:46 PM
>
>
> I have been told that Hale Wallace has cancer and that the Skybolt
> business is for sale. Don't know if this has any bearing on the
> service or not. Just thought you might want to know.
>
> KBoatri144(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > Despite the fact that I don't want to start a never ending thread on
> > "Builders who Love/Hate Skybolt", I though this was worth sharing...
> >
> > Skybolt has good prices, and shows a tremendous selection of fasteners,
> > fittings, etc. in their catalog, but I've given up on them. Why?
Because
> > they have turned into the gang that can't shoot straight (at least on
my
> > recent order). About 3 weeks ago, I called and ordered all of the
firewall
> > forward plumbing goodies for my plane. Three weeks, a half dozen phone
> > calls, and an e-mail later I have absolutely nothing in hand, despite
> > repeated promises that the parts would ship "today", "this week", or
> > whatever.
> >
> > The final straw was when I talked to them today, inquiring about the
shipment
> > I was supposed to get last Friday. They said "oops,we shipped it
second day,
> > not next day" (As it turns out, they must have shipped it third day,
'cause
> > it still isn't here). Also, instead of only being backordered on "one
size
> > of firesleeve" as I was told last Thursday, it turns out I'm
backordered on
> > firesleeve, hose, and fittings to the point that IF I had in hand what
they
> > say has shipped, I still wouldn't be able to build even ONE complete
hose.
> >
> > To add insult to injury, they couldn't tell me when they would have the
> > backordered items. On reciept of this joyous news, I canceled the
remainder
> > of the order, and will go through ACS or Summit Racing.
> >
> > The lesson here is IF you order through Skybolt, make sure they have
> > everything in stock BEFORE you commit to an order.
> >
> > Ironically, if you get put on hold by Skybolt, you get to hear a
recording
> > extolling the selection of hose and fittings they carry.
> >
> > Kyle Boatright
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fluctuating airspeed & altitude |
| From: | Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>
>Today I had the privilige to take my first RV-6 ride in Graham Hewitt's
>recently completed quick build VH-ZKV.
>Graham has spent the last two and a half years building this aircraft ( I
>got my tail in the same container and haven't finished yet ) and is planning
>to fly from Perth, Western Australia to the warbirds over Wanaka airshow in
>New Zealand in two weeks.
> He has a problem with the airspeed indicator fluctuating rapidly about
>10 knots on climb out at 80 - 100 kt.
>At a cruise of 150 kt at 25/25 the fluctuation decreases to bearly
>noticable, and on landing at 80 - 100 kt it is much reduced. The altimeter
>has slight fluctuations and this leads us to believe it is a static problem.
I don't have any ideas and I don't have airspeed fluctuations, but in my
airplane I occasionally get very large (300-400 feet) rapid altimeter
fluctuations. The altimeter itself has been swapped out and the RMI
Microencoder that is plumbed in parallel does not do it. I have found no
pattern that gives a clue as to what causes this. Very mystifying.
Yet another reason to pay more attention to the Microencoder, which I
also find is much more reapeatable when comparing the indication to field
elevation. Sometimes the old style altimeter is correct; the
Microencoder is always correct. It has gotten so I just adjust the
altimeter to agree with the Microencoder, which also makes sense because
the Microencoder is what ATC is seeing.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Aeroelectric Connection (rev 9) |
To all those that have pre-ordered and are very patiently awaiting the new
edition of Aeroelectric Connection, revision 9:
I spoke to Bob Nuckolls yesterday. At the time he was in the midst of
proofing the final chapter and expected to be at the printer by Monday. We
should then have them in stock (and all the many early orders shipped) about
a week to 10 days later.
Thank you all for your patience
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com> |
| Subject: | Mixture cable travel |
Listers,
In rigging up my three-lever throttle quadrant in my RV-8 I find that I
cannot get the mixture cable to provide full travel on the carb mixture arm.
My question is for those of you with experience with the Marvel Schebler
MA-4-5 carbs; does one need every bit of the mixture arm travel, or is the
last bit redundant? In other words, is full rich achieved a bit before the
lever reaches its stops, and same thing on the idle cutoff end? If that's
the case I can just adjust the available lever travel in the center of the
carb arm travel. Using the method I miss about the last 1/2" of travel at
each end of the arm travel as measured at the end of the arm.
Thanks,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, still futzing with cables
www.pacifier.com/~randyl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Electric aileron trim question |
Before I ordered my -9A wing kit, I asked Van's if the optional electric
aileron trim was going to have a trim tab like on the -6 or not require an
external tab like on the -8. On 2/8/00 Scott Risan sent an email saying
that: "engineers are planning a system similar to the -8".
Yesterday, when I got my wing kit, I was disappointed that the kit was
actually like the -6. I don't really like the looks of the trim tab and the
hinge knuckle looks quite large and "draggy" especially considering that
the -9 trailing edges come almost to a knife-edge (no trailing edge bend).
I have never seen the -8 electric aileron trim. Is this something that can
be adapted to any model RV? Does anyone else dislike the external tab on
the -6 or am I just being too fussy about the aesthetics?
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
Wing kit inventory (trying to pry ribs apart without bending them too much).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fluctuating airspeed & altitude/ATC |
" " Sometimes the old style altimeter is correct; the
Microencoder is always correct. It has gotten so I just adjust the
altimeter to agree with the Microencoder, which also makes sense because
the Microencoder is what ATC is seeing. " "
......................ATC is being sent mode-c data as digitised thru your
encoder. ATC's master program ( NAS ) makes barometric corrections and applies
these corrections to the data your altimeter (static system ) see's. You are
radar interrogated, your primary or 'skin paint' return is (for the most part)
thrown out by the selection button by the controller. Its' your secondary that
has the encoded altitude data imbedded in your mode-c enabled data reply from
your transponder. With all that said...there is some error in the system (as
shown with your observation). The controllers know this error and separate
traffic with this in mind. The micro-encoder is more accurate but be careful
mixing data sources to the controller (when talking to them ). BTW...the 1200
we all dutifully swalk...........most controllers disable their displays for
reporting 1200 type targets......to much clutter is the reason given.
BBTW...Primary echo radar return are trashed also ...reason given
weather,birds,clouds,moisture...So you can't 100% rely on ATC
advisories......there are at least two more reasons...
n5lp(at)carlsbad.net on 03/23/2000 10:21:18 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fluctuating airspeed & altitude
>
>
>Today I had the privilige to take my first RV-6 ride in Graham Hewitt's
>recently completed quick build VH-ZKV.
>Graham has spent the last two and a half years building this aircraft ( I
>got my tail in the same container and haven't finished yet ) and is planning
>to fly from Perth, Western Australia to the warbirds over Wanaka airshow in
>New Zealand in two weeks.
> He has a problem with the airspeed indicator fluctuating rapidly about
>10 knots on climb out at 80 - 100 kt.
>At a cruise of 150 kt at 25/25 the fluctuation decreases to bearly
>noticable, and on landing at 80 - 100 kt it is much reduced. The altimeter
>has slight fluctuations and this leads us to believe it is a static problem.
I don't have any ideas and I don't have airspeed fluctuations, but in my
airplane I occasionally get very large (300-400 feet) rapid altimeter
fluctuations. The altimeter itself has been swapped out and the RMI
Microencoder that is plumbed in parallel does not do it. I have found no
pattern that gives a clue as to what causes this. Very mystifying.
Yet another reason to pay more attention to the Microencoder, which I
also find is much more reapeatable when comparing the indication to field
elevation. Sometimes the old style altimeter is correct; the
Microencoder is always correct. It has gotten so I just adjust the
altimeter to agree with the Microencoder, which also makes sense because
the Microencoder is what ATC is seeing.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engines-List: Rotary vs. LyCon |
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Engines-List: Rotary vs. LyCon
>
> Just a few questions and a correction on the LYC/rotary issue.
>
> You say 220 hp out of the rotary pretty easily. That would be
> wonderful.....at what RPM? I assume there is a reduction drive in there
> somewhere, at what weight and how reliable and proven are they? Turbo
> charged....now you're talking my language (I road race a turbo Porsche),
but
> again....turbo's are RPM dependant and require some pretty serious
> cooling.....has anyone worked this out yet?
>
> One final correction, I have seen one RV with a rotary at a fly in in
> southeast Florida. It didn't quite go hmmmmm compared to the lycoming's
> boing boing. It was more like a brrrrappppp brrrappp
Hi Bill,
Ref Rotary engines, there are five RVs flying with rotary engines
including mine flying at this time that I am aware of. Tracy Crook RV-4 has
the most hours with over 1000 hrs on a rotary engine and his RV-4 topping
out at 209 mph. Fuel burn and performance indicates his engine is producing
approx 180-190 hp. There are also several Long EZs, Cozys and Velocities
and others, with some of the Velocities flying with the 3 rotor engine and
turbocharged.
Certainly when venturing into the rotary conversion, it is best that you
like tinkering. You are in fact, your own Research and Development project.
We are slowly accumulating real data that will make those following and
interested in such experimentation have a somewhat easier road. We have a
couple of "Rotary Engine" lists for exchanging such information. But, it
is certainly not for everone. As I point out to those who "look down" on
auto conversions as "Too Risky" and "Experimental" that many in the GA crowd
look upon homebuilt aircraft in the same manner (although thanks to the RV
and other good designs, not nearly as many as it was 10-15 years ago). .
It is really all about how risk tolerant you are and what you get
enjoyment out of. I hope to fly my Rotary Powered RV-6A to Sun & Fun. I
now have 70 hours flying time in it and hope to add considerably more this
year.
You are right about the exhaust of the rotary not having the mellow tone
of reciprocating engines. But, the advantages (as perceived by us Crazy's)
are:
1. Inherently more reliable than a reciprocating engine (vastly fewer parts
to break i.e., no cam shaft, valves, valves springs, connecting rods,
pinions, cylinder heads, etc)
2. Very much less viberation than a reciprocating engine (especially a four
banger)
3. "Graceful" degrogation failure modes. Because of an Iron alloy rotor
revolving in an aluminum housing, they never seize due to overheating.
(There are bad effects to overheating a rotary, but seizing and sudden
engine stoppage is not one of them).
4. Much lower internal ineria loads than a reciprocating engine (i.e. no
translation of linear motion to rotation needed - also why it is smoother)
. The primary down side of using a rotary (from my experience) include:
Generally lack of understanding and familarity with the rotary engine
compared to the 4, 6, and 8s most of us have worked on.
1. You do need a reduction drive to lower the engine speed to that suitable
for a propeller which of course adds weight, general in the 30-45 lb range
depending on which one you use.
2. Of course, you can not readily find Mazda Rotary engine parts at your
local FBO maintenance shop.
3. The engines are water cooled so there is the radiators and plumbing to
deal with. A rotary dumps 1/3 of its heat load through its rather large oil
cooler and that of course must be fitted under the cowl.
4. No conviene assessory pad such as for driving a vac pump or CS governer.
You can use the car Smog Pump as a vac pump for gyros as I and several
others have done. A member of our group is sponser development of a CS
(rather variable pitch) prop suitable for the rotary.
5. Using a rotary (or any other autoconversion) will add time to your
construction project, it added 18 months to my RV project over buying a
Lycoming and sticking it in. But, if you don't enjoy the challenge and the
tinkering then you definitedly should not be sticking anything other than an
aircraft engine in your airframe.
6. Some insurance companies will not insure auto powered aircraft. AVEMCO
has insured mine since 97.
7. Most of the rest of the experimental aircraft crowd think your are crazy
{:>).
Personally, I expect the number of rotary powered aircraft to increase
fairly dramatically as the cost of Lycomings keep climbing. The two rotor
model (13B) have shown they are capable of producing reliable power in the
150-190 HP range without a turbo. Capable of producing considerably over
250 hp with a turbo. The three rotor (20G) engines can produce 250-300
without a turbo.
Again, I am not attempting to convince anyone to go this route. It is
certainly not for most folks and you are increasing the risk factor by some
degree. Probably the biggest thing is that the rotary in an airframe simply
does not have the years and $$$$ of R&D that aircraft engines have benefited
from.
I would expect over the next year or two to start seeing rotary powered
airframes in some of the more popular air races.
In any case, thought I would provide a bit of insight from personal
experience.
Do not archieve
Ed
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW
Matthews NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert M. Day" <robday(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engines-List: Rotary vs. LyCon |
Just a quick question on the Rotary:
Once the factory oil injection is removed, does the builder then have
to pre-mix his fuel/oil mixture? Or is there another way of
lubricating the engine?
Thanks,
Rob Day
----- Original Message -----
From: <VP4SkyDoc(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 1:08 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Engines-List: Rotary vs. LyCon
:
: In a message dated 3/22/2000 7:15:25 PM Pacific Standard Time,
: stol_pilot(at)myezmail.com writes:
:
: > How about an easy 160hp out of an unmodified 80 cu.in. [rotary]
engine? How
: > long will it last? Is that TBO theoretical or emperical? Based on
what I've
: > seen of other rotary engine installations, your easy 160hp FWF
will weigh
: > close to the same as an O360 FWF, and since I don't have your
expertise to
: > build it myself, you'll charge me about the same as I'd pay for
the
: > overhauled Lycoming.
: >
:
: Well, now we are into a matter of semantics. What do we mean by
easy and
: unmodified? Any engine that was built for one application will have
to be
: changed to some extent... but that is not necessarily bad. I'll
make
: comparisons to installing a rebuilt Lyc. To put in a Mazda in an RV,
you
: could expect to do the following: 1) find and buy a used engine
Time -
: availability is comparable but Mazda=$400-$800 You fill in $$$ for
the Lyc.
: 2) Have the engine torn down and inspected and rebuilt. Mazda
$3000 for
: mostly new parts. Lyc = $$$$$ Like with the Lyc, some will feel
comfortable
: doing this themselves. There is a great video available for the
Rotary
: showing this process (as I'm sure there is for the Lyc too).
:
: We are the same so far except for cost. Has it been easy? Now
here are the
: extra things you must do for the Mazda conversion, all detailed in
Tracy
: Crooks conversion manual...
: 1) Disable the stock oil injection - a simple process that takes
about an
: hour as part of the rebuild (either by you or someone else).
:
: 2) Older engines will require an easy mod to one of the coolant
gaskets.
:
: 3) Now, to give yourself 10-20 extra HP, you could have the intake
ported
: for several hundred $, but we are still way under what you have
spent for the
: overhauled Lyc and it hasn't been any more difficult at all. How
does this
: affect reliability? Well, ported cars putting out 350 hp with no
oil
: injection mod are known to blow apex seals. However, at less than
230 hp in
: the aircraft with the oil mod it is a non factor IMHO, but no one
can say for
: sure.
:
: 4) You will have to modify or rebuild your engine mount (yup, this
is a big
: pain). However, one builder just installed an engine using an
adapter that
: fit directly on the stock dynafocal. I am hoping that the machinist
who made
: it will make some more of these sub-mounts.
:
: 5) You will have to supply fuel, spark and air. Tracy Crook makes
an engine
: controller which supplies electronic ignition based on the stock
crank angle
: sensor. It also provides cockpit adjustable electronic fuel
injection.
: There are two completely independent computers which can each run
the two
: injectors and two spark plugs in each combustion chamber. There is
also a
: third limp home mode. The whole system costs under a $1000. There
will soon
: also be a monitor showing Fuel flow (solving the EFI fuel flow
problem) Total
: fuel, MPG, RPM, and MAP. Try finding that for a Lyc!!! Supplying
air is a
: little tougher. Tracy supplies instructions on making an intake
from stock
: parts, and a couple of vendors are supplying bolt on manifolds.
:
: 6) Exhaust needs to be made custom (so far), a couple of suppliers
do this
: for RV's as well.
:
: 7) Cooling is a hassle. This is where time and weight will be
gained or
: lost. I haven't heard of anyone who never got it to work. But at
least you
: wont have to do any baffling. You also get the advantages of liquid
cooling
: (no shock cooling, less cooling drag possible) and disadvantage
(another
: system to fail) and still stay at the weight/CG of the designed
engine.
:
: So, what's the bottom line? IMHO An easily modified uncareful
instillation
: will produce about 160 hp. Now be careful with the instillation,
tune the
: intake and exhaust, add a pressure phlem, and maybe some street
porting and
: get up to 210 hp. The instillation will weigh a little more or less
than the
: Lycs (remember, the 320 and 360 are only about 10# apart). There
should be
: plenty of space in the cowl of an RV6 or 8 to add turbocharging and
get
: around 250 hp. (the stock turbo in the car is rated at 285hp.)
:
: Yup, it takes a little extra effort and time, but in the end you
will spend
: less for a considerably better product. Some guys have gone to a
lot more
: effort than this to install a 200 hp IO-360 in their RV-6(A). Is it
worth
: it? Is it worth it to build an RV instead of buying that Katanya,
or Cirrus,
: or Cessna? I think so. Just like building the RV, it doesn't take
an
: engineering degree or engine expertise (I have never done more than
change my
: oil), just a little extra love.. :-)
:
: Someone asked about justification for 2000+ TBO. Theoretical? Yes.
But not
: like someone calculated it out on a CAD machine. One engine in a
gyro is at
: 1700 SMOH and going strong. Tracy Crook ran his first engine for
almost 900
: hrs and had essentially no measurable wear, let alone reduction in
hp,
: compression or increase in EGT's. He also burned no measurable oil
between
: oil changes (every 50 hrs). Ever heard of a Lyc that did that? A
few other
: engines are in the 500 hr range (and counting) with similar results.
The oil
: injection mod is critical. If anyone owns an RX-7 that you want to
keep
: around for 3-4 hundred thousand miles, consider making this mod in
your car.
:
: Someone else mentioned resale value. Good point. Personally, I
would much
: rather have a proven rotary installation over a Lyc any day. But I
am the
: minority and will be for quite some time. My RV is a life long
: project/investment. I don't plan to sell for several reasons
(liability,
: loss of my baby, never want to be this consumed with a hobby again
etc..)
: But if you think there is a good possibility you will someday sell,
looks
: like you are stuck with a Lycosaur.
:
: Now, the ramblings you have just heard are those of a bookworm who
is really
: just beginning his project (gads). Please don't take my word for
any of
: this. I have found my engine research and tinkering to be as
rewarding as
: working on my RV. (talk to me again in a couple years ;-). The
research
: really isn't that hard. The only reason that I did it was because I
was off
: in Japan for six months with nothing else to do. But now I have
seen the
: light and it goes hmmmmmmmmm instead of boing boing boing.
:
: Dave Leonard
: Rotary RV-6 N4VY
:
:
:
:
:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | temporary wing rigging |
Bob,
I used 6" lengths of solid rod purchased from the hardware store. I put
a little taper on the end and tapped them in with a small hammer. I
then clamped the spar to the bulkhead with several large clamps. I
think the solid rod is even less likely to bugger up the close tolerance
holes. I think I used a total of ten or twelve of these rods. I hope
this is helpful.
Ken Harrill
RV-6, wheel pants
Hi Listers,
The tasks left on my -6 are dwindling and in a few weeks
I will be rigging
the wings and I have a few questions about mounting them
temporarily.
My fuselage is done and am still working on the wings.
My intention is to
bolt on the wings and set the incidence angles, but I am
going to paint the
wings before I fly (the fuse is already painted.)
Should I use hardware
store bolts to bolt the wings on temporarily, and avoid
for now the
center-section close tolerance bolts? Will doing this
provide enough
accuracy in rigging the wings? How many bolts are
enough to do the job?
Also, it appears that the main-spar to rear spar
distance doesn't exactly
match the spar carry-through to the rear spar attach
points. Looks like on
the right side the distance between the spar attach
points on the fuse are
about 1/16-3/32 wider than the distance between the main
spar stub and the
rear spar stub. I'm gathering that something needs to
bend to make them
fit; has anyone had this problem? I'm thinking that
some re-bending of the
fuselage rear-spar attach will do the trick...I'm just
wondering how much
bending those bars can take before they're going to be
weakened.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: temporary wing rigging |
>Boy! I must be cheap !! I don't have a Smart level but used a piece of
>vinyl tubing with some food coloring and water inside it. I figured that if
>water would always find its' own level, that ought to be close enough for
>me. Total cost for this water level was about five bucks. I used a 25'
>tape
>measure to square up the wing squareness and dangled plumb bobs from the
>leading edge of the wing to check on wing sweep. The total job took me
>about
>a day and it came out right. I think that sometimes we have a tendancy to
>think that if our tools are not the latest gizmos, then our methods are in
>error. (No flames intended toward anyone) I like the fancy tools too, but I
>think that we should let the new builders know that they won't always have
>to mortgage the house to buy tools - Just be ready to spend LOTS on the
>avionics and finishing touches :-))
>-----------------------------------------------------
>Doug Murray RV-6 C-GRPA Getting real close !!
Nah, you're not cheap, you just found what works best for you! A guy
certainly doesn't have to buy a smart level, as they can be rented at most
any tool rental shop or surveyor's supply. Water is VERY cheap, and does
find it's own level. Gravity is an amazing thing.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Erratic FloScan readings |
In a message dated 3/23/00 6:23:16 AM Central Standard Time, bbds(at)wiktel.com
writes:
<<
How about a short length of hose or metal tubing oriented vertically off a
T-fitting that goes nowhere but is capped to trap air in the "nowhere"
end... like the plumbers use to stop pounding in your water system... :=))
>>
I like this idea. But, my floscan is located between the Facet pump and the
engine pump. Would this mean I would need an air trap on both sides of the
floscan?
Dale Ensing
6A finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fluctuating airspeed & altitude |
>
>Today I had the privilige to take my first RV-6 ride in Graham Hewitt's
>recently completed quick build VH-ZKV.
>Graham has spent the last two and a half years building this aircraft ( I
>got my tail in the same container and haven't finished yet ) and is
>planning
>to fly from Perth, Western Australia to the warbirds over Wanaka airshow in
>New Zealand in two weeks.
> He has a problem with the airspeed indicator fluctuating rapidly about
>10 knots on climb out at 80 - 100 kt.
>At a cruise of 150 kt at 25/25 the fluctuation decreases to bearly
>noticable, and on landing at 80 - 100 kt it is much reduced. The altimeter
>has slight fluctuations and this leads us to believe it is a static
>problem.
>He has a stainless pitot with the union inside the wing and Van's flush
>mounted static ports at the standard location, but they got painted over in
>the paint shop who cleared them out.
>The static system had some leaks which were fixed and it was thoroughly
>tested using a test box from the T near the static ports to the
>instruments.
> If anyone has any ideas that might help use fix this they would be
>appreciated.
>
>Thanks David Peck
>RV-6A slooow build
>Perth, Western Australia
My instruments do the same thing. The altimeter and airspeed needles wiggle
the same amount. It does seem more noticeable at low airspeed (high angle
of attack). This might be due to the angle of attack of the pitot tube to
the incoming air. Prop blast over the static ports may also be contributing
to the situation. It hasn't really bothered me very much.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)atmel.com> |
Where can I get a Lyc. for my RV-8A for $5000? I'll take two!!
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of pcondon(at)csc.com
Sent: March 23, 2000 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engines
AS Vans has said... " the best engine conversion is to convert 5000 dollars
into
a Lycoming engine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
| Subject: | panel planer electric panel |
Don't fool yourself into thinking you've stumbled into a great treasure.
last year I bought one of those panels for one of my charter boats and I can
attest to the poor quality and construct. The switches are lit and of the
cheap foglight variety also I've noticed plastic melting on the bilge
circuit switch, approx current 4 amp continuous. Also the fuse holders
seemed to become very brittle and have started breaking at the cap. (the
push and twist caps are popping out like cigarette lighters) . all this in
less than 6 months on lake Ontario. Please be careful and choose wisely.
Steven DiNieri
capsteve(at)wzrd.com
I was in a marine hardware store yesterday and found a pre-made pannel. It
was light and alum. (about 1 #) but the connections appeared to be of high
quality. The switches were lit and fuses easily accessable. Six switches
and fuses on each pre-made eletrical pannel for $20. Fuses of assorted size
included alont with mounting hardware. Now if only I could figure a good
use
for a "bilge pump" on my RV-6 :-)
>From the catalog:
"Illuminated rocker switches let you know which circutis are on, and pop-out
fuse holders are easy to work with. Features brass eletrical wiring, bars,
and stick-on labels. Use with AGC fuses rated up to 15 amps. Ship 1lb."
Four-gang 3.5"Wx3 15/16"H, 19.99
Six gang: 4.5"x6.5", 21.99
Order at 1800-937-2628
Dave Leonard
Mazda RV-6 N4VY
March 16, 2000 - March 23, 2000
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