RV-Archive.digest.vol-if

March 23, 2000 - March 29, 2000



      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Engine advice
Date: Mar 23, 2000
I've heard in the past that lycoming engine's without data plates are possibly used as Airboat engines. Marcel de Ruiter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ENewton57(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Rotary vs. LyCon
Ed, I have been kicking around the idea of a rotary for a while now and have two questions: 1. How does the reduction unit affect the power off glide performance. i have been lead to believe that it acts like a big air brake and the g ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ENewton57(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Rotary vs. LyCon
Ed, I have been kicking around the idea of a rotary for a while now and have two questions: 1. How does the PSRU affect the power-off glide performance. I have been lead to believe that it acts like a big air brake and the glide slope is very steep when compared to an engine that is direct drive. Is this true? 2. How hard is it to adapt to the mounts and get everything lined up correctly on the centerline of the aircraft? Thanks, Eric RV-6A (empennage) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Engine advice
Date: Mar 23, 2000
As an alternative : Has anybody heard of the new Morane/Renault diesel engine ? This engine is currently undergoing certification trials in France. At present there's only a 200 HP version, but a 180 is expected this year. This engine still provides 100% at 12500'(!!!!) at a fuel burn 35% less than Lycoming. It runs on JET A1. There are only 1500 parts in the entire engine, compared to over 3000 for Lycoming. The expected TBO is going to be 3000 (!!!) hours. The engine works with a "powerlever", it has a C/S, but if you want more power you just shove the throttle forward and it adjusts the prop automaticly. The engine is expected to be available as a retro-fit when it's fully certified. Marcel de Ruiter RV4/G-RVMJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Christie" <billc(at)dancris.com>
Subject: Re: Aeroelectric Connection (rev 9)
Date: Mar 23, 2000
I bought one at OSH 99. Is it possible to get an update rather than buying the new manual? Bill C. RV8A wings, Phoenix ----- Original Message ----- From: Builder's Bookstore <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 8:22 AM Subject: RV-List: Aeroelectric Connection (rev 9) > > To all those that have pre-ordered and are very patiently awaiting the new > edition of Aeroelectric Connection, revision 9: > > I spoke to Bob Nuckolls yesterday. At the time he was in the midst of > proofing the final chapter and expected to be at the printer by Monday. We > should then have them in stock (and all the many early orders shipped) about > a week to 10 days later. > > Thank you all for your patience > > Andy > Builder's Bookstore > http://www.buildersbooks.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Rotary vs. LyCon
The simplest is to pre-mix the fuel/oil mixture. However, some have kept the oil injection with an external oil metering pump drawing oil from a separate reservoir with two stroke and/or Marvel Mystery Oil. Finn "Robert M. Day" wrote: > > Just a quick question on the Rotary: > Once the factory oil injection is removed, does the builder then have > to pre-mix his fuel/oil mixture? Or is there another way of > lubricating the engine? > Thanks, > Rob Day > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <VP4SkyDoc(at)aol.com> > To: ; > Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 1:08 AM > Subject: RV-List: Re: Engines-List: Rotary vs. LyCon > > : > : In a message dated 3/22/2000 7:15:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, > : stol_pilot(at)myezmail.com writes: > : > : > How about an easy 160hp out of an unmodified 80 cu.in. [rotary] > engine? How > : > long will it last? Is that TBO theoretical or emperical? Based on > what I've > : > seen of other rotary engine installations, your easy 160hp FWF > will weigh > : > close to the same as an O360 FWF, and since I don't have your > expertise to > : > build it myself, you'll charge me about the same as I'd pay for > the > : > overhauled Lycoming. > : > > : > : Well, now we are into a matter of semantics. What do we mean by > easy and > : unmodified? Any engine that was built for one application will have > to be > : changed to some extent... but that is not necessarily bad. I'll > make > : comparisons to installing a rebuilt Lyc. To put in a Mazda in an RV, > you > : could expect to do the following: 1) find and buy a used engine > Time - > : availability is comparable but Mazda=$400-$800 You fill in $$$ for > the Lyc. > : 2) Have the engine torn down and inspected and rebuilt. Mazda > $3000 for > : mostly new parts. Lyc = $$$$$ Like with the Lyc, some will feel > comfortable > : doing this themselves. There is a great video available for the > Rotary > : showing this process (as I'm sure there is for the Lyc too). > : > : We are the same so far except for cost. Has it been easy? Now > here are the > : extra things you must do for the Mazda conversion, all detailed in > Tracy > : Crooks conversion manual... > : 1) Disable the stock oil injection - a simple process that takes > about an > : hour as part of the rebuild (either by you or someone else). > : > : 2) Older engines will require an easy mod to one of the coolant > gaskets. > : > : 3) Now, to give yourself 10-20 extra HP, you could have the intake > ported > : for several hundred $, but we are still way under what you have > spent for the > : overhauled Lyc and it hasn't been any more difficult at all. How > does this > : affect reliability? Well, ported cars putting out 350 hp with no > oil > : injection mod are known to blow apex seals. However, at less than > 230 hp in > : the aircraft with the oil mod it is a non factor IMHO, but no one > can say for > : sure. > : > : 4) You will have to modify or rebuild your engine mount (yup, this > is a big > : pain). However, one builder just installed an engine using an > adapter that > : fit directly on the stock dynafocal. I am hoping that the machinist > who made > : it will make some more of these sub-mounts. > : > : 5) You will have to supply fuel, spark and air. Tracy Crook makes > an engine > : controller which supplies electronic ignition based on the stock > crank angle > : sensor. It also provides cockpit adjustable electronic fuel > injection. > : There are two completely independent computers which can each run > the two > : injectors and two spark plugs in each combustion chamber. There is > also a > : third limp home mode. The whole system costs under a $1000. There > will soon > : also be a monitor showing Fuel flow (solving the EFI fuel flow > problem) Total > : fuel, MPG, RPM, and MAP. Try finding that for a Lyc!!! Supplying > air is a > : little tougher. Tracy supplies instructions on making an intake > from stock > : parts, and a couple of vendors are supplying bolt on manifolds. > : > : 6) Exhaust needs to be made custom (so far), a couple of suppliers > do this > : for RV's as well. > : > : 7) Cooling is a hassle. This is where time and weight will be > gained or > : lost. I haven't heard of anyone who never got it to work. But at > least you > : wont have to do any baffling. You also get the advantages of liquid > cooling > : (no shock cooling, less cooling drag possible) and disadvantage > (another > : system to fail) and still stay at the weight/CG of the designed > engine. > : > : So, what's the bottom line? IMHO An easily modified uncareful > instillation > : will produce about 160 hp. Now be careful with the instillation, > tune the > : intake and exhaust, add a pressure phlem, and maybe some street > porting and > : get up to 210 hp. The instillation will weigh a little more or less > than the > : Lycs (remember, the 320 and 360 are only about 10# apart). There > should be > : plenty of space in the cowl of an RV6 or 8 to add turbocharging and > get > : around 250 hp. (the stock turbo in the car is rated at 285hp.) > : > : Yup, it takes a little extra effort and time, but in the end you > will spend > : less for a considerably better product. Some guys have gone to a > lot more > : effort than this to install a 200 hp IO-360 in their RV-6(A). Is it > worth > : it? Is it worth it to build an RV instead of buying that Katanya, > or Cirrus, > : or Cessna? I think so. Just like building the RV, it doesn't take > an > : engineering degree or engine expertise (I have never done more than > change my > : oil), just a little extra love.. :-) > : > : Someone asked about justification for 2000+ TBO. Theoretical? Yes. > But not > : like someone calculated it out on a CAD machine. One engine in a > gyro is at > : 1700 SMOH and going strong. Tracy Crook ran his first engine for > almost 900 > : hrs and had essentially no measurable wear, let alone reduction in > hp, > : compression or increase in EGT's. He also burned no measurable oil > between > : oil changes (every 50 hrs). Ever heard of a Lyc that did that? A > few other > : engines are in the 500 hr range (and counting) with similar results. > The oil > : injection mod is critical. If anyone owns an RX-7 that you want to > keep > : around for 3-4 hundred thousand miles, consider making this mod in > your car. > : > : Someone else mentioned resale value. Good point. Personally, I > would much > : rather have a proven rotary installation over a Lyc any day. But I > am the > : minority and will be for quite some time. My RV is a life long > : project/investment. I don't plan to sell for several reasons > (liability, > : loss of my baby, never want to be this consumed with a hobby again > etc..) > : But if you think there is a good possibility you will someday sell, > looks > : like you are stuck with a Lycosaur. > : > : Now, the ramblings you have just heard are those of a bookworm who > is really > : just beginning his project (gads). Please don't take my word for > any of > : this. I have found my engine research and tinkering to be as > rewarding as > : working on my RV. (talk to me again in a couple years ;-). The > research > : really isn't that hard. The only reason that I did it was because I > was off > : in Japan for six months with nothing else to do. But now I have > seen the > : light and it goes hmmmmmmmmm instead of boing boing boing. > : > : Dave Leonard > : Rotary RV-6 N4VY > : > : > : > : > : > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)atmel.com>
Subject: Engine advice
This web page has a bunch of engine links... http://www.aviator.cc/engines.html -Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: temporary wing rigging
Date: Mar 23, 2000
>Boy! I must be cheap !! I don't have a Smart level but used a piece of >vinyl tubing with some food coloring and water inside it. I figured that if >water would always find its' own level, that ought to be close enough for >me. Total cost for this water level was about five bucks. I used a 25' >tape >measure to square up the wing squareness and dangled plumb bobs from the >leading edge of the wing to check on wing sweep. The total job took me >about >a day and it came out right. I think that sometimes we have a tendancy to >think that if our tools are not the latest gizmos, then our methods are in >error. (No flames intended toward anyone) I like the fancy tools too, but I >think that we should let the new builders know that they won't always have >to mortgage the house to buy tools - Just be ready to spend LOTS on the >avionics and finishing touches :-)) >----------------------------------------------------- >Doug Murray RV-6 C-GRPA Getting real close !! Nah, you're not cheap, you just found what works best for you! A guy certainly doesn't have to buy a smart level, as they can be rented at most any tool rental shop or surveyor's supply. Water is VERY cheap, and does find it's own level. Gravity is an amazing thing. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DWENSING(at)aol.com.Thu,
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0001512178@smtp-in.libertybay.com>; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:40:36.-0800(at)matronics.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Re: Erratic FloScan readings
In a message dated 3/23/00 6:23:16 AM Central Standard Time, bbds(at)wiktel.com writes: << How about a short length of hose or metal tubing oriented vertically off a T-fitting that goes nowhere but is capped to trap air in the "nowhere" end... like the plumbers use to stop pounding in your water system... :=)) >> I like this idea. But, my floscan is located between the Facet pump and the engine pump. Would this mean I would need an air trap on both sides of the floscan? Dale Ensing 6A finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fluctuating airspeed & altitude
Date: Mar 23, 2000
> >Today I had the privilige to take my first RV-6 ride in Graham Hewitt's >recently completed quick build VH-ZKV. >Graham has spent the last two and a half years building this aircraft ( I >got my tail in the same container and haven't finished yet ) and is >planning >to fly from Perth, Western Australia to the warbirds over Wanaka airshow in >New Zealand in two weeks. > He has a problem with the airspeed indicator fluctuating rapidly about >10 knots on climb out at 80 - 100 kt. >At a cruise of 150 kt at 25/25 the fluctuation decreases to bearly >noticable, and on landing at 80 - 100 kt it is much reduced. The altimeter >has slight fluctuations and this leads us to believe it is a static >problem. >He has a stainless pitot with the union inside the wing and Van's flush >mounted static ports at the standard location, but they got painted over in >the paint shop who cleared them out. >The static system had some leaks which were fixed and it was thoroughly >tested using a test box from the T near the static ports to the >instruments. > If anyone has any ideas that might help use fix this they would be >appreciated. > >Thanks David Peck >RV-6A slooow build >Perth, Western Australia My instruments do the same thing. The altimeter and airspeed needles wiggle the same amount. It does seem more noticeable at low airspeed (high angle of attack). This might be due to the angle of attack of the pitot tube to the incoming air. Prop blast over the static ports may also be contributing to the situation. It hasn't really bothered me very much. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)atmel.com>
Subject: Engines
Where can I get a Lyc. for my RV-8A for $5000? I'll take two!! -Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of pcondon(at)csc.com Sent: March 23, 2000 7:18 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engines AS Vans has said... " the best engine conversion is to convert 5000 dollars into a Lycoming engine. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: RV6/6A Wings and Empenage for Sale
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Tom Wallis, the pilot who did all the developmental flying for the Johnson Wax Carnuba replica construction (Recently featured in Sport Aviation) is also an RV builder. He ordered the wing and tail (with Phlogiston spar) while doing that developmental work, and never touched it except to inventory it. During his test flying work the RV8 came out and he decided to build that...he's working on the tail feathers now. He offers the wing and tail for for the RV6/6A $3,500....way below his cost and below current prices. If you are interested you can call him at (719) 395-6448 in Buena Vista Colorado (central part of the state.) Evenings are best time to call. Tom is not on the internet, but I would be glad to relay anything if you desire to e-mail me. RV6A Flying Salida, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Wing and Tail for RV6/6A for Sale
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Oh, I forgot, Tom's offer also includes the plans for the RV6/6A. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Engine advice
Date: Mar 23, 2000
I've heard in the past that lycoming engine's without data plates are possibly used as Airboat engines. Marcel de Ruiter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com>
Subject: panel planer electric panel
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Don't fool yourself into thinking you've stumbled into a great treasure. last year I bought one of those panels for one of my charter boats and I can attest to the poor quality and construct. The switches are lit and of the cheap foglight variety also I've noticed plastic melting on the bilge circuit switch, approx current 4 amp continuous. Also the fuse holders seemed to become very brittle and have started breaking at the cap. (the push and twist caps are popping out like cigarette lighters) . all this in less than 6 months on lake Ontario. Please be careful and choose wisely. Steven DiNieri capsteve(at)wzrd.com I was in a marine hardware store yesterday and found a pre-made pannel. It was light and alum. (about 1 #) but the connections appeared to be of high quality. The switches were lit and fuses easily accessable. Six switches and fuses on each pre-made eletrical pannel for $20. Fuses of assorted size included alont with mounting hardware. Now if only I could figure a good use for a "bilge pump" on my RV-6 :-) >From the catalog: "Illuminated rocker switches let you know which circutis are on, and pop-out fuse holders are easy to work with. Features brass eletrical wiring, bars, and stick-on labels. Use with AGC fuses rated up to 15 amps. Ship 1lb." Four-gang 3.5"Wx3 15/16"H, 19.99 Six gang: 4.5"x6.5", 21.99 Order at 1800-937-2628 Dave Leonard Mazda RV-6 N4VY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Re: Mixture cable travel
I needed to use the top hole in the linkage arm; the one closest to the pivot. I used the standard vans quadrant and the vans linkage cable. All my stops & throws matched up......I wanted the lower hole for more of a fine movement in the carb but the top hole works fine. Also, had to make a brass shim on thecarb mixture arm hole..more of a bushing to shim out the arm bole to the #10 bolt...... 15 minutes at the hardware store & a file & a elect drill (poor mans lathe) randyl(at)pacifier.com on 03/23/2000 11:14:02 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Mixture cable travel Listers, In rigging up my three-lever throttle quadrant in my RV-8 I find that I cannot get the mixture cable to provide full travel on the carb mixture arm. My question is for those of you with experience with the Marvel Schebler MA-4-5 carbs; does one need every bit of the mixture arm travel, or is the last bit redundant? In other words, is full rich achieved a bit before the lever reaches its stops, and same thing on the idle cutoff end? If that's the case I can just adjust the available lever travel in the center of the carb arm travel. Using the method I miss about the last 1/2" of travel at each end of the arm travel as measured at the end of the arm. Thanks, Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500, still futzing with cables www.pacifier.com/~randyl ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Rotary vs. LyCon
Zing robday(at)gte.net on 03/23/2000 11:44:44 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Engines-List: Rotary vs. LyCon Just a quick question on the Rotary: Once the factory oil injection is removed, does the builder then have to pre-mix his fuel/oil mixture? Or is there another way of lubricating the engine? Thanks, Rob Day ----- Original Message ----- From: <VP4SkyDoc(at)aol.com> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 1:08 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: Engines-List: Rotary vs. LyCon : : In a message dated 3/22/2000 7:15:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, : stol_pilot(at)myezmail.com writes: : : > How about an easy 160hp out of an unmodified 80 cu.in. [rotary] engine? How : > long will it last? Is that TBO theoretical or emperical? Based on what I've : > seen of other rotary engine installations, your easy 160hp FWF will weigh : > close to the same as an O360 FWF, and since I don't have your expertise to : > build it myself, you'll charge me about the same as I'd pay for the : > overhauled Lycoming. : > : : Well, now we are into a matter of semantics. What do we mean by easy and : unmodified? Any engine that was built for one application will have to be : changed to some extent... but that is not necessarily bad. I'll make : comparisons to installing a rebuilt Lyc. To put in a Mazda in an RV, you : could expect to do the following: 1) find and buy a used engine Time - : availability is comparable but Mazda=$400-$800 You fill in $$$ for the Lyc. : 2) Have the engine torn down and inspected and rebuilt. Mazda $3000 for : mostly new parts. Lyc = $$$$$ Like with the Lyc, some will feel comfortable : doing this themselves. There is a great video available for the Rotary : showing this process (as I'm sure there is for the Lyc too). : : We are the same so far except for cost. Has it been easy? Now here are the : extra things you must do for the Mazda conversion, all detailed in Tracy : Crooks conversion manual... : 1) Disable the stock oil injection - a simple process that takes about an : hour as part of the rebuild (either by you or someone else). : : 2) Older engines will require an easy mod to one of the coolant gaskets. : : 3) Now, to give yourself 10-20 extra HP, you could have the intake ported : for several hundred $, but we are still way under what you have spent for the : overhauled Lyc and it hasn't been any more difficult at all. How does this : affect reliability? Well, ported cars putting out 350 hp with no oil : injection mod are known to blow apex seals. However, at less than 230 hp in : the aircraft with the oil mod it is a non factor IMHO, but no one can say for : sure. : : 4) You will have to modify or rebuild your engine mount (yup, this is a big : pain). However, one builder just installed an engine using an adapter that : fit directly on the stock dynafocal. I am hoping that the machinist who made : it will make some more of these sub-mounts. : : 5) You will have to supply fuel, spark and air. Tracy Crook makes an engine : controller which supplies electronic ignition based on the stock crank angle : sensor. It also provides cockpit adjustable electronic fuel injection. : There are two completely independent computers which can each run the two : injectors and two spark plugs in each combustion chamber. There is also a : third limp home mode. The whole system costs under a $1000. There will soon : also be a monitor showing Fuel flow (solving the EFI fuel flow problem) Total : fuel, MPG, RPM, and MAP. Try finding that for a Lyc!!! Supplying air is a : little tougher. Tracy supplies instructions on making an intake from stock : parts, and a couple of vendors are supplying bolt on manifolds. : : 6) Exhaust needs to be made custom (so far), a couple of suppliers do this : for RV's as well. : : 7) Cooling is a hassle. This is where time and weight will be gained or : lost. I haven't heard of anyone who never got it to work. But at least you : wont have to do any baffling. You also get the advantages of liquid cooling : (no shock cooling, less cooling drag possible) and disadvantage (another : system to fail) and still stay at the weight/CG of the designed engine. : : So, what's the bottom line? IMHO An easily modified uncareful instillation : will produce about 160 hp. Now be careful with the instillation, tune the : intake and exhaust, add a pressure phlem, and maybe some street porting and : get up to 210 hp. The instillation will weigh a little more or less than the : Lycs (remember, the 320 and 360 are only about 10# apart). There should be : plenty of space in the cowl of an RV6 or 8 to add turbocharging and get : around 250 hp. (the stock turbo in the car is rated at 285hp.) : : Yup, it takes a little extra effort and time, but in the end you will spend : less for a considerably better product. Some guys have gone to a lot more : effort than this to install a 200 hp IO-360 in their RV-6(A). Is it worth : it? Is it worth it to build an RV instead of buying that Katanya, or Cirrus, : or Cessna? I think so. Just like building the RV, it doesn't take an : engineering degree or engine expertise (I have never done more than change my : oil), just a little extra love.. :-) : : Someone asked about justification for 2000+ TBO. Theoretical? Yes. But not : like someone calculated it out on a CAD machine. One engine in a gyro is at : 1700 SMOH and going strong. Tracy Crook ran his first engine for almost 900 : hrs and had essentially no measurable wear, let alone reduction in hp, : compression or increase in EGT's. He also burned no measurable oil between : oil changes (every 50 hrs). Ever heard of a Lyc that did that? A few other : engines are in the 500 hr range (and counting) with similar results. The oil : injection mod is critical. If anyone owns an RX-7 that you want to keep : around for 3-4 hundred thousand miles, consider making this mod in your car. : : Someone else mentioned resale value. Good point. Personally, I would much : rather have a proven rotary installation over a Lyc any day. But I am the : minority and will be for quite some time. My RV is a life long : project/investment. I don't plan to sell for several reasons (liability, : loss of my baby, never want to be this consumed with a hobby again etc..) : But if you think there is a good possibility you will someday sell, looks : like you are stuck with a Lycosaur. : : Now, the ramblings you have just heard are those of a bookworm who is really : just beginning his project (gads). Please don't take my word for any of : this. I have found my engine research and tinkering to be as rewarding as : working on my RV. (talk to me again in a couple years ;-). The research : really isn't that hard. The only reason that I did it was because I was off : in Japan for six months with nothing else to do. But now I have seen the : light and it goes hmmmmmmmmm instead of boing boing boing. : : Dave Leonard : Rotary RV-6 N4VY : : : : : ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
(Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id for" ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 14:08:48.-0500(at)matronics.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Re: Engine advice
Hey Marcel, My buddy in Chino Ca. got a Don George engine, thats a real well known rebuilder in Fla. For some reason he had to open the case and inside was stamped "for airboat use only". That makes you feel good. Goes to show you a name is only as good as the last engine that left the shipping dock. I will be assisting the surgon when mine is rebuilt. Eric "marcel de ruiter" on 03/23/2000 12:19:38 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice I've heard in the past that lycoming engine's without data plates are possibly used as Airboat engines. Marcel de Ruiter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Engines
Most of the builders in my area get O-320-H2AD's for a song.With the T-mod & 1600 to 1800 hours, running, with all accessories. Vans ran a article on these a few years ago. Last November one was in my trunk and on the way home for 4800.00 Logs included. I flew behind it & help pull it off the Cessna. I will Fly for 200 to 400 hours before overhaul. Hell, for that price (when I finanically heel) I'll buy a second, overhaul it and keep my down time to nothing..then sell my first....... bvondane(at)atmel.com on 03/23/2000 12:12:10 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Engines Where can I get a Lyc. for my RV-8A for $5000? I'll take two!! -Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of pcondon(at)csc.com Sent: March 23, 2000 7:18 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engines AS Vans has said... " the best engine conversion is to convert 5000 dollars into a Lycoming engine. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Avheath(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 38 Msgs - 03/22/00
This is to all the souls out there with "dumb questions"--- you will never know how much you help the timid people who need to know and are afraid to ask. Thanks for being there folks and bless you. soon to build RV-9 Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Engines
Most of the builders in my area get O-320-H2AD's for a song.With the T-mod & 1600 to 1800 hours, running, with all accessories. Vans ran a article on these a few years ago. Last November one was in my trunk and on the way home for 4800.00 Logs included. I flew behind it & help pull it off the Cessna. I will Fly for 200 to 400 hours before overhaul. Hell, for that price (when I finanically heel) I'll buy a second, overhaul it and keep my down time to nothing..then sell my first....... bvondane(at)atmel.com on 03/23/2000 12:12:10 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Engines Where can I get a Lyc. for my RV-8A for $5000? I'll take two!! -Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of pcondon(at)csc.com Sent: March 23, 2000 7:18 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engines AS Vans has said... " the best engine conversion is to convert 5000 dollars into a Lycoming engine. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: Ronen Yehiav <yron(at)isdn.net.il>
Subject: Re: Engine advice
Where would you think one can get more info on this engine? Seems they saw my wish list... Ronen. -----Original Message----- From: marcel de ruiter <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> Date: Thursday, March 23, 2000 8:34 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice | |As an alternative : |Has anybody heard of the new Morane/Renault diesel engine ? This engine is |currently undergoing certification trials in France. At present there's only |a 200 HP version, but a 180 is expected this year. |This engine still provides 100% at 12500'(!!!!) at a fuel burn 35% less than |Lycoming. It runs on JET A1. |There are only 1500 parts in the entire engine, compared to over 3000 for |Lycoming. The expected TBO is going to be 3000 (!!!) hours. The engine works |with a "powerlever", it has a C/S, but if you want more power you just shove |the throttle forward and it adjusts the prop automaticly. The engine is |expected to be available as a retro-fit when it's fully certified. | |Marcel de Ruiter |RV4/G-RVMJ | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Oil cooler fittings and hoses question
I have an O360-A1A with oil cooler on the left rear baffle. I figgered I'd use straight hoses with 90 degree pipe elbows on the engine and straight pipe fittings on the oil cooler. Will 90 degree elbows be installable? Is this why they make the $45 hose elbows? Or, is it best to use straight fittings on the engine and big loop (st out from engine toward firewall then loop back to oil cooler) hoses? hal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: Oil cooler fittings and hoses question
Date: Mar 23, 2000
> > I have an O360-A1A with oil cooler on the left rear baffle. I figgered I'd > use straight hoses with 90 degree pipe elbows on the engine and straight > pipe fittings on the oil cooler. > > Will 90 degree elbows be installable? Is this why they make the $45 hose > elbows? Or, is it best to use straight fittings on the engine and big loop > (st out from engine toward firewall then loop back to oil cooler) hoses? > Hal: My 0-360-A1A RV-4 installation uses a 45 degree steel fitting at the engine outlet location to a straight fitting on the cooler. The cooler outlet uses a 90 degree fitting and loops around to a straight fitting at the engine oil inlet (coming from cooler). My cooler is mounted on a bracket in the "cheek" area of the RV-4 cowling with a remote hose off the left rear baffle. Just be sure that you abide by the minimum bend radius for the appropriate hoses. Doug Weiler RV-4 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Re: Engine advice
April 2000's Aviation Maintenance monthly news letter has a article on this engine & others in development. There are URL's for web access mentioned also. yron(at)isdn.net.il on 03/23/2000 02:17:22 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice Where would you think one can get more info on this engine? Seems they saw my wish list... Ronen. -----Original Message----- From: marcel de ruiter <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> Date: Thursday, March 23, 2000 8:34 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice | |As an alternative : |Has anybody heard of the new Morane/Renault diesel engine ? This engine is |currently undergoing certification trials in France. At present there's only |a 200 HP version, but a 180 is expected this year. |This engine still provides 100% at 12500'(!!!!) at a fuel burn 35% less than |Lycoming. It runs on JET A1. |There are only 1500 parts in the entire engine, compared to over 3000 for |Lycoming. The expected TBO is going to be 3000 (!!!) hours. The engine works |with a "powerlever", it has a C/S, but if you want more power you just shove |the throttle forward and it adjusts the prop automaticly. The engine is |expected to be available as a retro-fit when it's fully certified. | |Marcel de Ruiter |RV4/G-RVMJ | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: RV8-11
That puppy tricycle or taildragger? :) - Mike ==== Michael E. Thompson (Grobdriver(at)yahoo.com) Austin, TX, USA RV-6 in progress, N140RV (Reserved) EX-AX1 Sub Hunter, P-3 (B/B-TACMOD/C) Orion Aircrew, PP-G,ASEL, Motorglider Driver and Unlimited Air Race Nut! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Engines
Gary Sobek wrote: >>> I put too much work into my airplane to RISK it with an non-recommened powerplant. I want to fly, not have a continous project. <<< Different strokes for different folks, Gary!! hal (Good thing the Wright Brothers didn't insist on a Lycoming!) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvmils(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: need help airflow performance fuel pump location RV4
I have the airflow performance fuel pump and filter. Do I mount this stuff in the battery compartment, it seems a little tight, in the control column area or put it on the other side of the firewall? If in the batt compartment, where and how? On that same note, should I use AN fittings at the firewall and run flex lines to the engine driven fuel pump and if so can you recommend a good hose(type and where to order). Carey Mills From: Rvmils(at)aol.com Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 23:20:14 EST Subject: RV-List: airflow performance fuel pump location RV4 I have the airflow performance fuel pump and filter. Do I mount this stuff in the battery compartment, it seems a little tight, in the control column area or put it on the other side of the firewall? If in the batt compartment, where and how? On that same note, should I use AN fittings at the firewall and run flex lines to the engine driven fuel pump and if so can you recommend a good hose(type and where to order). Carey Mills ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Rotary vs. LyCon
Date: Mar 23, 2000
: Re: RV-List: Re: Engines-List: Rotary vs. LyCon > > Just a quick question on the Rotary: > Once the factory oil injection is removed, does the builder then have > to pre-mix his fuel/oil mixture? Or is there another way of > lubricating the engine? > Thanks, > Rob Day > Hi Rob, The vast majority premix two cycle engine oil with their gas. The two cycle engine oil burns much cleaner than crankcase oil and leaves much less carbon on the rotary and evidence indicates less wear. However, there are some individuals who would rather inject the two cycle oil and at least one prototype of a mechanism which uses the regular oil metering mechanism to drive a metering device which draws from its own external two cycle oil reservoir. I carry around my two cycle oil in 8 oz containers and just pour it into the tank prior to fueling. In a pitch aircraft grade "ashless" oil will work fine. Ed ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Rotary vs. LyCon
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Engines-List: Rotary vs. LyCon > > Ed, > I have been kicking around the idea of a rotary for a while now and have two > questions: > 1. How does the PSRU affect the power-off glide performance. I have been > lead to believe that it acts like a big air brake and the glide slope is very > steep when compared to an engine that is direct drive. Is this true? > 2. How hard is it to adapt to the mounts and get everything lined up > correctly on the centerline of the aircraft? > Thanks, > Eric RV-6A (empennage) > Hi Eric, I can't really answer the question about the power-off glide performance. I did have one incident where I let the selected tank run dry (unintentionally) and when the engine quit, it took me a few seconds of going through the typical phases of What happened? Denial that the engine was winding down, an Oh S---t or two, surveying engine instruments trying to determine the cause, noting that the indicator needle on the selected tank was not completely on empty, setting up best glide speed and heading for the airport (I was at 8000 msl), and finally (seemed like an eternity) notice that the fuel pressure gauge was reading zero. Turned boost pump on, selected other tank and engine caught as soon as fuel pressure returned. I had lost 800 ft of altitude when the engine had restarted. But, I don't know how long it was between engine quiting and restarting. I can tell you that there was no rapid deacceleration as you might have with a CS prop by changing the pitch. The propeller continued to turn at best glide speed (93 mph) throughout the glide. Now I can tell you that it would be difficult to hand prop the rotary with the PSRU. You can easily pull the prop through the compression stroke (easier than on an aicraft engine) however, there is not enough moment inertia (at least with my wood prop) to spin the engine pass one compression stroke. Regarding your second question about motor mount and alinement. I got Van's Concial mount and had the aircraft engine mounting pads cut off and a motor mount welded to the nose gear and firewall pads. I had the face of the prop flange off set 5/8" to the left to counter the opposite rotation of the prop. Others have not put any offset into the mount and apparently it has no major effect. At least one individual use the regular aircraft mount and had a submount for the engine which mounted to the Lord mounts. So, it takes a little thought and some welding, but clearly not a major hurdle. The back of my engine sets 8" from the firewall and my empty C.G is at the foward C.G limit. When I am on board and fully loaded with fuel the C.G. is almost right over the center of lift or approx 25% back from the leading edge of the wing. I used the stock cowl (I think it was the old none constant speed cowl - the longer of the two that Van then offered) and the engine fit under it just fine. Eric, if you want more information you might visit these two rotary web sites. http://home.earthlink.net/~rotaryeng/ACRE.html http://www.members.home.net/plugsup/ You will find photos of my bird and installations on the PlugsUp site and lots of good techncial stuff on the ACRE site. Ed ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Aeroelectric Connection (rev 9)
Bob Nuckolls will sell just the updated pages. In fact, it is possible that he will provide the first update for free. That is what he did for me, many years ago. Kevin > >I bought one at OSH 99. Is it possible to get an update rather than buying >the new manual? >Bill C. RV8A wings, Phoenix >----- Original Message ----- >From: Builder's Bookstore <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> >To: >Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 8:22 AM >Subject: RV-List: Aeroelectric Connection (rev 9) > > > >> >> To all those that have pre-ordered and are very patiently awaiting the new >> edition of Aeroelectric Connection, revision 9: >> >> I spoke to Bob Nuckolls yesterday. At the time he was in the midst of >> proofing the final chapter and expected to be at the printer by Monday. We >> should then have them in stock (and all the many early orders shipped) >about >> a week to 10 days later. >> >> Thank you all for your patience >> >> Andy >> Builder's Bookstore >> http://www.buildersbooks.com >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rv660wm(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Tipup canopy rear window sealing?
Has anyone used a sealant sucessfully on the rear window of a 6 tipup? It appears that since it is mounted on the inside of the skin, that rain will leak in without a sealant. What is the experience of folks in the rain without a sealant? Bernie Kerr, 6A getting seriously close, 60WM, SE Fla ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ENewton57(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Trays
I have a dumb question. When I llok at used instruments on ebay, etc. the seller often includes the statement "no tray". What is a tray? Is it necessary for the installation of instruments and radios? Thanks, Eric rv-6a (emp) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Noel" <bnoel(at)ausa.net>
Subject: Re: Mixture cable travel
Date: Feb 23, 2000
I had same problem on my 4. I found a easy fix for mixture bushing. I took a 10-32 rivnut and cut the flange off then cut it so length matched arm width. Rivnut is exact OD and has just enough clearance in ID to allow lubrication. Since it is aluminum it will wear first instead of arm and is easily replaced. -----Original Message----- From: pcondon(at)csc.com <pcondon(at)csc.com> Date: Thursday, March 23, 2000 1:15 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Mixture cable travel > > >I needed to use the top hole in the linkage arm; the one closest to the pivot. I >used the standard vans quadrant and the vans linkage cable. All my stops & >throws matched up......I wanted the lower hole for more of a fine movement in >the carb but the top hole works fine. Also, had to make a brass shim on thecarb >mixture arm hole..more of a bushing to shim out the arm bole to the #10 >bolt...... 15 minutes at the hardware store & a file & a elect drill (poor mans >lathe) > > >randyl(at)pacifier.com on 03/23/2000 11:14:02 AM > >Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com, rv8list(at)onelist.com > >Subject: RV-List: Mixture cable travel > > >Listers, > >In rigging up my three-lever throttle quadrant in my RV-8 I find that I >cannot get the mixture cable to provide full travel on the carb mixture arm. >My question is for those of you with experience with the Marvel Schebler >MA-4-5 carbs; does one need every bit of the mixture arm travel, or is the >last bit redundant? In other words, is full rich achieved a bit before the >lever reaches its stops, and same thing on the idle cutoff end? If that's >the case I can just adjust the available lever travel in the center of the >carb arm travel. Using the method I miss about the last 1/2" of travel at >each end of the arm travel as measured at the end of the arm. > >Thanks, >Randy Lervold >RV-8, #80500, still futzing with cables >www.pacifier.com/~randyl > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: "Mike Wills" <willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: Engines
> >Gary Sobek wrote: > >>> >I put too much work into my airplane to RISK it with >an non-recommened powerplant. I want to fly, not have >a continous project. ><<< > >Different strokes for different folks, Gary!! > >hal >(Good thing the Wright Brothers didn't insist on a Lycoming!) Actually Hal, there are no "strokes" in the Mazda 13B. One of the advantages of the rotary engine over a recip is the parts go round and round, not up and down. : -) But I get your point and thank you for it. Mike Wills RV4 engine stuff (Mazda 13B) willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tipup canopy rear window sealing?
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
> >Has anyone used a sealant sucessfully on the rear window of a 6 tipup? It >appears that since it is mounted on the inside of the skin, that rain will >leak in without a sealant. What is the experience of folks in the rain >without a sealant? > I sealed mine with clear RTV. I used a small amount and immediately wiped away the part that squeezed out on the exposed part of the plexi. I don't think what I did is noticable but don't know about leaks as the last time it rained significantly was about last June. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Tipup canopy rear window sealing?
Date: Mar 23, 2000
> > Has anyone used a sealant sucessfully on the rear window of a 6 tipup? It > appears that since it is mounted on the inside of the skin, that rain will > leak in without a sealant. What is the experience of folks in the rain > without a sealant? > > Bernie Kerr, 6A getting seriously close, 60WM, SE Fla > > Bernie, I used the 3M weather strips (little strips of black tar-like weather stripping). I put it between the plexi and skin and then pop rivited the plexi to the skin. I have had no leaks during heavy rain stroms nor when washing the aircraft. However, the pressure of the plex against the skin has caused the stuff to ooze out when the weather go hotter. I removed the excess and it appears to have stopped oozing. I recommend it or something like it. Ed Anderson eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com http://www.members.home.net/plugsup/ > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Re: Trays
From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
Just about all the radios we use a tray. cost like $100 that the wires go to. The radios sliide in & lock down with a 1/8 allen head xcrew. All my instruments mountt with 3 or 4 screws in the panal. Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com ********************************************************************** > I have a dumb question. When I llok at used instruments on ebay, > etc. the > seller often includes the statement "no tray". What is a tray? Is > it > necessary for the installation of instruments and radios? > Thanks, > Eric rv-6a (emp) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net>
Subject: Moroso remote oil filter
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Listers, I want to install a remote oil filter on a O-360A1A. I looked at the Summit web site and found a couple "relocation" kits but not one with the Moroso name. Can someone give me the Moroso part numbers for the engine adaptor and the remote single filter bracket that matches up with the Champion filter. If a kit is available, I would rather go that route. Thanks, Tom Barnes -6 finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net>
Subject: Re: panel planer electric panel
I am a sailor and have rebuilt my J-36 (Also building an RV 9A) Don't kid yourself. A good Marine panel with 6 circuit breakers or so will cost a couple hundred dollars. Been there. Again you get what you pay for. As a matter of fact in rebuilding my boat I found some supplies to be more readily available and better quality at lower prices from Aircraft spruce than from marine supply companies. Things like fiberglass cloths (more variety and wt..) and foam. John Oliveira ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: MAC Servo Connectors
Date: Mar 23, 2000
FWIW I talked to a guy at MAC. A good connector for the MAC servo's is Radio Shack's 5 pin DIN male and female (P/N 274-006A and P/N 274-003A). It looks like these can connect to the elevator servo and aileron servo and provide for a low profile, light weight, cheap disconnect. Rick Jory Highlands Ranch, CO RV8A QB, finishing kit arrives tomorrow or Monday! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com>
Subject: Re: Moroso remote oil filter
Might want to check Sam Buchanan's website, I think he used a Moroso mount. I also think he had some issues with the oil filter so you might want to e-mail him and ask about it. Bill Pagan RV-8A N565BW First flight 12/19/99 http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html > >Listers, >I want to install a remote oil filter on a O-360A1A. I looked at the Summit >web site and found a couple "relocation" kits but not one with the Moroso >name. Can someone give me the Moroso part numbers for the engine adaptor >and the remote single filter bracket that matches up with the Champion >filter. If a kit is available, I would rather go that route. > >Thanks, >Tom Barnes -6 finishing > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: RV-8 seat back weldment from hell!
Help! Well I finally got around to unbolting the seat back weldment since I'm in the process of painting the inside of the fuselage and I don't want to get paint all over that pretty powder coating, and I noticed a series of dimpled holes along the top of the weldment that were to small for number 8 screws. A little bit of research reveals that this weldment is part bolted and part riveted with a dozen AN426 flush head rivets. All these holes are factory drilled in the quick build kit and most have a bucking clearance of between half and a quarter of an inch before you run into steel tubing. Question: How in the heck did you buck the 426-AD4-6&7 rivets that hold the WD-808 seat back weldment to the fuselage??? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. - Jim RV-8AQ (fuse and more fuse) N89JA (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Moroso remote oil filter
I want to install a remote oil filter on a O-360A1A. I'm just curious, Tom, why??? hal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com>
Subject: Oilcanning?
Looking for some input from y'all. When I get to about 155 mph IAS I get a noisy vibration that sounds like high speed oilcanning coming from the rear fuse area. I don't feel anything in the stick or pedals and I hear it more than feel it. I've checked all the flight control linkage and theres no problem there. I'm thinking it's either the belly skin between the 808 & 809 or perhaps the rudder skin (I did have some oilcanning there). I really can't tell where its coming from, just rear of the rear seat. Oh yea, it doesn't always do this...just sometimes. Any ideas? Bill Pagan RV-8A N565BW First flight 12/19/99 http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Electric aileron trim question
> >Before I ordered my -9A wing kit, I asked Van's if the optional electric >aileron trim was going to have a trim tab like on the -6 or not require an >external tab like on the -8. On 2/8/00 Scott Risan sent an email saying >that: "engineers are planning a system similar to the -8". > >Yesterday, when I got my wing kit, I was disappointed that the kit was >actually like the -6. I don't really like the looks of the trim tab and the >hinge knuckle looks quite large and "draggy" especially considering that >the -9 trailing edges come almost to a knife-edge (no trailing edge bend). > >I have never seen the -8 electric aileron trim. Is this something that can >be adapted to any model RV? Does anyone else dislike the external tab on >the -6 or am I just being too fussy about the aesthetics? > >Chris Heitman One more thing to consider - the difference between a tab on the aileron and trim via springs is more than just aesthetics. If you have the trim via springs, you have to fight those springs every time you move the ailerons. I am told that the control forces are noticeably heavier with the springs. Please note that I have no personal experience with this - I have only flown one RV, and I'm not sure which type of trim system it had. I bought the trim via springs option for my RV-8, but I am having second thoughts about installing it. I may modify an aileron to have a built in tab, somewhat similar to the elevator trim tab. This would solve the aesthetics issue, and have the lighter control feel that I like. I would have to put a bit of extra weight in the aileron mass balance to compensate for the extra weight of the tab + servo. The springs in the RV-8 trim option attach to the control stick assembly that goes between the front and rear seats. That part moves sideways and rotates as the ailerons are moved. The RV-9 wouldn't have that setup, so it might be a bit of a trick to use the RV-8 trim kit. Van will probably sell you the drawing for the RV-8 trim option, so you can study it and decide whether it can be made to work. Kevin Horton RV-8 (prepping fuse for skin riveting) Ottawa, Canada http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6ARC(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Re: Trays
A tray is what a radio slides into. The purpose for a tray is when you need to remove the com, or nav or transponder etc. you don't have to fool with the wiring. Bob RV6 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 seat back weldment from hell!
Use the backriveting tool as a bucking bar or the plunger from your c-frame tool as a bucking bar. Bill Pagan RV-8A N565BW First flight 12/19/99 http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html > > >Help! > >Well I finally got around to unbolting the seat back weldment since I'm in the >process of painting the inside of the fuselage and I don't want to get paint >all >over that pretty powder coating, and I noticed a series of dimpled holes along >the top of the weldment that were to small for number 8 screws. A little >bit of >research reveals that this weldment is part bolted and part riveted with a >dozen >AN426 flush head rivets. All these holes are factory drilled in the quick >build >kit and most have a bucking clearance of between half and a quarter of an inch >before you run into steel tubing. > >Question: > >How in the heck did you buck the 426-AD4-6&7 rivets that hold the WD-808 seat >back weldment to the fuselage??? > >Any advice would be greatly appreciated. > >- Jim >RV-8AQ (fuse and more fuse) >N89JA (reserved) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: James Freeman <cd005677(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 seat back weldment from hell!
> > Help! (snip) > > How in the heck did you buck the 426-AD4-6&7 rivets that hold the WD-808 seat > back weldment to the fuselage??? > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Jim--I don't have the plans in front of me, but I just did this the other day. Near the top right of the plans sheet you'll find the callouts for the rivets. They are 426AD4-6&-7s for most of the holes, CS4-4 pulled rivets for three of the holes on each side IIRC. There is (barely) enough room for the Avery back rivet set to fit underneath for all but one or two of the 426s. These are very easy. I have a skinny bucking bar that I picked up off a table at the Boeing surplus store that got one of the ones I couldn't back rivet. There was one 426 rivet that I drilled out 3 times on the right (a new personal record) and once on the left. It was the one immediately aft of the CS4-4 that was by itself towards the forward end of the row. At this point I was probably two hours into what seemed like it should have been about a 15 minute task. I sat down to avoid scorching any more paint off the inside of the hangar walls with my vocabulary. I was seriously thinking about plastic airplanes. Then I put a CS4-4 in each of the problem holes and finished in about 90 seconds. I spent the rest of the afternoon with a beatific grin on my face. I think it's easier to make this one harder than it is. James Freeman Going for the QB endurance record ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jdheath(at)premierweb.net (JohnHeath)
Subject: Re: Moroso remote oil filter
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Call Summit, and ask .They have Ten times the stuff they have in their catalog. JDHeath ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 6:53 PM Subject: RV-List: Moroso remote oil filter > > Listers, > I want to install a remote oil filter on a O-360A1A. I looked at the Summit > web site and found a couple "relocation" kits but not one with the Moroso > name. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Re: Eratic fuel flow indications (floscan transducer, EIS 4000,
O-360 A1A) > Did they say how much the 264 transducer is? No, I didn't get that info. Greg at Grand Rapids was going to give them a call. He might have some info by now. >And where did you end up leaving your flow > transducer after trying it in different places? Mine is under the left landing gear weldment (RV-6A), about 6-8" from the fuel selector assembly. From there, the fuel line does a little "S" curve, thru the Fram G-3 filter, and over to the side of the fuselage where the Facet pump is located. > I'm just about to install my fuel plumbing so your information is very > timely. Great. Glad to help. Tim ****** Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99 TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Landing light wiring
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Fellow Listers: Since I am an electrical blockhead, please help me out. I have L and R 100W Duckworth landing lights in my RV-4. I want to wire these both through one switch. From what I can determine this equates to about 8 amps each for a total load of 16 amps. Is it correct in using a 20 amp breaker, through a single switch and two 14 ga wires going out to each light? Thanks, Doug =========== Doug Weiler Hudson, WI 715-386-1239 dougweil(at)pressenter.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N95MF(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Re: Oilcanning?
Bill, I had exactly the same thing, and after riveting stiffeners to two or three panels with no result, I was told by a friend the noise was the canopy skirt vibrating against the fuselage side. Sure enough-that's what it was. Some foam insulating strips stopped the vibration and niose. Good luck. Mark Goldberg RV-8 N982RV 92 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Landing light wiring
> Since I am an electrical blockhead, please help me out. I have L and > R 100W > Duckworth landing lights in my RV-4. I want to wire these both > through one > switch. From what I can determine this equates to about 8 amps each > for a > total load of 16 amps. Is it correct in using a 20 amp breaker, > through a > single switch and two 14 ga wires going out to each light? Better to visit an auto parts store and see how high-wattage driving lights are set up. You don't want to switch that much current - rather switch a relay and let it power the lights. Pretty standard setup in RV (no pun intended!) and off-road vehicles, and should be easy to get the parts. IMO YMMV Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Re: temporary wing rigging
In a message dated 3/23/00 9:38:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, akroguy(at)hotmail.com writes: << Water is VERY cheap, and does find it's own level. Gravity is an amazing thing. >> Gravity, it's not just a good idea. It's the law. -GV (RV-6A N1GV) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: need help airflow performance fuel pump location RV4
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Carey, Which RV are you installing the pump in? Chuck Rowbotham RV-8A Niantic, CT >From: Rvmils(at)aol.com >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: need help airflow performance fuel pump location RV4 >Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:09:54 EST > > >I have the airflow performance fuel pump and filter. Do I mount this stuff >in the battery compartment, it seems a little tight, in the control column >area or put it on the other side of the firewall? >If in the batt compartment, where and how? On that same note, should I use >AN fittings at the firewall and run flex lines to the engine driven fuel >pump >and if so can you recommend a good hose(type and where to order). > >Carey Mills ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Re: Trays
In a message dated 3/23/00 3:31:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, ENewton57(at)aol.com writes: << When I look at used instruments on ebay, etc. the seller often includes the statement "no tray". What is a tray? Is it necessary for the installation of instruments and radios? >> The tray probably remained in the plane that they stole the radio out of. -GV (RV-6A N1GV) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Re: Landing light wiring
In a message dated 3/23/00 7:39:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, dougweil(at)pressenter.com writes: << I have L and R 100W Duckworth landing lights in my RV-4. I want to wire these both through one switch. From what I can determine this equates to about 8 amps each for a total load of 16 amps. Is it correct in using a 20 amp breaker, through a single switch and two 14 ga wires going out to each light? >> I'd get a few 30A rated aftermarket driving lamp relays from the auto parts store and use them to decouple the high inrush current (much more than continuous) to the lamps from the panel switch. The wire gauge and 20A breaker sound about right. -GV (RV-6A N1GV) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bdubsrv6a(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Re: Electric aileron trim question
C J, Like you I don't like the looks of the rv6 wing trim. I would prefer one that is built into the aileron similar to the elevater trim. There should be someone out there who has made one like that. Is there anyone out there who can help us with specs? Bud West rv6a tail feathers ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: SCAT Tube
KBoatri144(at)aol.com wrote: > > A word to the wise. Purchase your SCAT tube from Van's (or at least avoid > ACS East right now). I spent a couple of hours trying to install ACS > supplied SCAT the other day, and I absolutely couldn't get it to fit any of > the six 2" flanges on my airplane. So, I ordered some from Van's, and after > a little fiddling, it went on fine. I had the same basic problem but with scat ordered from Van's. I did finally manage to get it installed. I remember reading that when you cut the wire in the tube you were supposed to bend the wire in a little so that it would not puncture the tube. Well, if I bent the wire there was no way the tube was going to fit the flange. In a recent issue of LPM there was an artical that explaned installation of scat tube. Cut the wire far enough back (1.5" or so) from the tube end, bend it inward and install the tube. The wire is not suppose to go over the flange. I questioned this and asked a couple of A&P's here at the airport and the artical was correct. Sure makes putting the scat tube on a lot easier. Gary Zilik - RV6A - N99PZ - 23.9 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Electric aileron trim question
Kevin Horton wrote: > > One more thing to consider - the difference between a tab on the > aileron and trim via springs is more than just aesthetics. If you > have the trim via springs, you have to fight those springs every time > you move the ailerons. I am told that the control forces are > noticeably heavier with the springs. Please note that I have no > personal experience with this - I have only flown one RV, and I'm not > sure which type of trim system it had. > > I bought the trim via springs option for my RV-8, but I am having > second thoughts about installing it. I may modify an aileron to have > a built in tab, somewhat similar to the elevator trim tab. This > would solve the aesthetics issue, and have the lighter control feel > that I like. I would have to put a bit of extra weight in the > aileron mass balance to compensate for the extra weight of the tab + > servo. > > The springs in the RV-8 trim option attach to the control stick > assembly that goes between the front and rear seats. That part moves > sideways and rotates as the ailerons are moved. The RV-9 wouldn't > have that setup, so it might be a bit of a trick to use the RV-8 trim > kit. Van will probably sell you the drawing for the RV-8 trim > option, so you can study it and decide whether it can be made to work. I have not found the trim spring tension to be a noticable issue on my RV-6. The springs are very light and are only stretched a small amount. If you would like to see a couple of photos of the RV-6 manual aileron trim system, click on the link and scroll to the bottom of the page: http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/fuse9.html I have flown both electric and manual trim versions of the RV-6 and prefer the manual, not only for esthetics but for simplicity and ease of use. Sam Buchanan (RV-6, properly trimmed) "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2000
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Tipup canopy rear window sealing?
Rv660wm(at)aol.com wrote: > > > Has anyone used a sealant sucessfully on the rear window of a 6 tipup? It > appears that since it is mounted on the inside of the skin, that rain will > leak in without a sealant. What is the experience of folks in the rain > without a sealant? A small bead of pro-seal works nicely. And you just thought you were through with the stuff...... Sam Buchanan "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JusCash(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Subject: MB Antenna Location
I have installed the strobe power supply under the baggage floor. I would like to mount the marker beacon antenna on the center of the belly under the elevator pushrod. This would put the antenna and power supply about four inches from each other. Has anyone done this? If so were there any problems with interference from the power supply to the MB antenna. Cash Copeland RV6QB 60075 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Subject: Lower Rudder Fiberglass Cap Question...
Hi Listers, My RV-4's Tail Kit came with one of those lower fiberglass rudder caps that has the pre-molded 'thingy' for the white tail light. Since I won't need a light here, I tried a few things to make it go away, but me and the Dremel cutoff wheel tool weren't getting along. I can't really think of a way of making this one look good short of doing a bunch of glass work to it. Ack. Does anyone make one of these fiberglass caps without that taillight thingy? I would sure like to get one... Thanks for any information you might have, Matt Dralle RV-4 Builder, #1763, N442RV to be... -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2000
From: Ronen Yehiav <yron(at)isdn.net.il>
Subject: Re: Engine advice
I have no access to that publication, Will I be imposing too much of you if I ask for these URLs? Thanks in advance. Ronen. -----Original Message----- From: pcondon(at)csc.com <pcondon(at)csc.com> Date: Friday, March 24, 2000 12:11 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice | | |April 2000's Aviation Maintenance monthly news letter has a article on this |engine & others in development. There are URL's for web access mentioned also. | | |yron(at)isdn.net.il on 03/23/2000 02:17:22 PM | |Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com | |To: rv-list(at)matronics.com | |Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice | | | |Where would you think one can get more info on this engine? |Seems they saw my wish list... |Ronen. |-----Original Message----- |From: marcel de ruiter <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> |To: rv-list(at)matronics.com |Date: Thursday, March 23, 2000 8:34 PM |Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice | | | || ||As an alternative : ||Has anybody heard of the new Morane/Renault diesel engine ? |This engine is ||currently undergoing certification trials in France. At present |there's only ||a 200 HP version, but a 180 is expected this year. ||This engine still provides 100% at 12500'(!!!!) at a fuel burn |35% less than ||Lycoming. It runs on JET A1. ||There are only 1500 parts in the entire engine, compared to |over 3000 for ||Lycoming. The expected TBO is going to be 3000 (!!!) hours. The |engine works ||with a "powerlever", it has a C/S, but if you want more power |you just shove ||the throttle forward and it adjusts the prop automaticly. The |engine is ||expected to be available as a retro-fit when it's fully |certified. || ||Marcel de Ruiter ||RV4/G-RVMJ || || || || || | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Nielsen" <Mark.Nielsen@fiedler-lp.com>
Subject: Electric aileron trim question
Date: Mar 24, 2000
> >you move the ailerons. I am told that the control forces are >noticeably heavier with the springs. Please note that I have no >personal experience with this - I have only flown one RV, and I'm not >sure which type of trim system it had. > >Kevin Horton > Kevin, I assume that you are referring to my RV, since we flew together in DEC 98. It does have the spring system for aileron trim. I am also not in a position to compare, since I have never flown an RV without the spring system. However, I suspect that for practical purposes, the difference in control forces would be negligible. On the ground, the spring force is barely noticable for a small stick movement. With more deflection, the force is stronger, but I would still consider it light. When you are flying, most normal Cessna-like maneuvers are accomplished using only small stick movements. For larger stick deflections, I believe that aerodynamic forces greatly overshadow any trim spring force. Perhaps someone could comment who has experience flying RVs both with and without aileron trim springs. Mark Nielsen RV-6, 467 hours Green Bay, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: Eratic fuel flow indications (floscan transducer, EIS 4000,
O-360 A1A)
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Tim & all, Further info on this issue; since I have the Electronics International FP-5 fuel flow instrument I called them today to ask about the pulsing issue and if they knew about the Floscan 264 tranducer with the internal damping mechanism. After checking with one of the engineers they told me that they use two different Floscan transducers: the 201 for injected engines, and the 231 for carbureted engines. They said that they had built circuitry into their units that "expected" the pulsing created by any fuel pump and prevented it from causing a false reading. Their units also have adjustable K-factor as well as programmable damping for the pulses. Sounds like if you have an E.I. unit this shouldn't be a problem. Maybe that's one reason why they're so darned expensive. I plan on going over there on Monday, since I live in the area, to discuss several issues with them and swap some wiring harnesses. I'll raise this issue again just to make sure and if I learn any more I'll post it. Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500, plumbing & wiring www.pacifier.com/~randyl Home Wing VAF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: Oilcanning?
Date: Mar 23, 2000
> When I get to about 155 mph IAS I get a noisy vibration that sounds like > high speed oilcanning coming from the rear fuse area. I don't feel > anything in the stick or pedals and I hear it more than feel it. I've > checked all the flight control linkage and theres no problem there. I'm > thinking it's either the belly skin between the 808 & 809 or perhaps the > rudder skin (I did have some oilcanning there). I really can't tell where > its coming from, just rear of the rear seat. Oh yea, it doesn't always do > this...just sometimes. Any ideas? Bill, Haven't flown yet, but I prosealed in two pieces of .025 angle on the belly skin between the 808 and 809 bulkheads because it looked ripe for oilcanning, and also someone on the list mentioned it. Couldn't hurt to put them in even if it's not the noise you're hearing. Seemed to me like it would be one of those areas that would make quite a racket while taxiing. I'll send you a pic if you're interested. Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500, finish kit probably forever ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jim jewell" <jjewell(at)okanagan.net>
Subject: Re: Lower Rudder Fiberglass Cap Question...
Date: Mar 23, 2000
Hello Matt When I ordered my kit I chose the non taillight lower rudder cap option. I'm sure you can get the cap you want from Van's. Jim in Kelowna BC. ----- Original Message ----- From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 9:37 PM Subject: RV-List: Lower Rudder Fiberglass Cap Question... > > > Hi Listers, > > My RV-4's Tail Kit came with one of those lower fiberglass rudder caps ,snip> > Thanks for any information you might have, > > Matt Dralle > RV-4 Builder, #1763, N442RV to be... ======================================================== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Hall" <robjhall(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Electric aileron trim question
Date: Mar 23, 2000
>snip... > One more thing to consider - the difference between a tab on the > aileron and trim via springs is more than just aesthetics. If you > have the trim via springs, you have to fight those springs every time > you move the ailerons. I am told that the control forces are > noticeably heavier with the springs.... You never have to fight the controls in an RV. I have the spring system installed and the difference in control forces between my RV-6 and a friend's with no aileron trim is insignificant. The spring system works well for me. Bob Hall Colorado Spirngs. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dgmurray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Lower Rudder Fiberglass Cap Question...
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Subject: RV-List: Lower Rudder Fiberglass Cap Question... > > Hi Listers, > > My RV-4's Tail Kit came with one of those lower fiberglass rudder caps > that has the pre-molded 'thingy' for the white tail light. Since I > won't need a light here, I tried a few things to make it go away, but me > and the Dremel cutoff wheel tool weren't getting along. I can't really > think of a way of making this one look good short of doing a bunch of > glass work to it. Ack. > > Does anyone make one of these fiberglass caps without that taillight > thingy? I would sure like to get one... > > Thanks for any information you might have, > > Matt Dralle > RV-4 Builder, #1763, N442RV to be... Try Vans Aircraft. They have them in the catalog ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Claude Heiniger" <cheiniger(at)dplanet.ch>
Subject: Re: Engine advice - Renault Diesel Engine
Date: Mar 23, 2000
For those interested in this diesel engine, I had the chance to look it over at leBourget a couple of years ago. Apparently it has been flying since. I was told then that the priority is for Aerospaciale built airplanes. I believe it will be very hard to put your hands on this engine as the market needs will be pressing. Claude Heiniger Switzerland CFII/ME ATP Preparing for an RV6 ----- Original Message ----- From: marcel de ruiter <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 6:39 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice > > As an alternative : > Has anybody heard of the new Morane/Renault diesel engine ? This engine is > currently undergoing certification trials in France. At present there's only > a 200 HP version, but a 180 is expected this year. > This engine still provides 100% at 12500'(!!!!) at a fuel burn 35% less than > Lycoming. It runs on JET A1. > There are only 1500 parts in the entire engine, compared to over 3000 for > Lycoming. The expected TBO is going to be 3000 (!!!) hours. The engine works > with a "powerlever", it has a C/S, but if you want more power you just shove > the throttle forward and it adjusts the prop automaticly. The engine is > expected to be available as a retro-fit when it's fully certified. > > Marcel de Ruiter > RV4/G-RVMJ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
(Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id for" ; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 07:56:06.-0500(at)matronics.com
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Subject: Re: Lower Rudder Fiberglass Cap Question...
Hey Matt, Good to see you in builders mode. You can make a fairing real easy. Just get a piece of foam and (ice cooler) and cut a piece a little bigger than necessary to make the patch for what you cut off. Match the radius and lay some 10oz glass on it. This will be very flexible, lay that on the edge you cut out to give it the shape. Then lay about four more layers and I recomend using West systems structural filler in the resin. Stagger each layup by 1/8 inch so it will taper down. Then get out the dual action sander and fair the whole deal. Should cost about five bucks and much quicker than waiting on UPS. Don't tell anyone, but I just love playing with Fiberglass. Hope it helps Eric dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) on 03/24/2000 12:37:28 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Lower Rudder Fiberglass Cap Question... Hi Listers, My RV-4's Tail Kit came with one of those lower fiberglass rudder caps that has the pre-molded 'thingy' for the white tail light. Since I won't need a light here, I tried a few things to make it go away, but me and the Dremel cutoff wheel tool weren't getting along. I can't really think of a way of making this one look good short of doing a bunch of glass work to it. Ack. Does anyone make one of these fiberglass caps without that taillight thingy? I would sure like to get one... Thanks for any information you might have, Matt Dralle RV-4 Builder, #1763, N442RV to be... -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Wiza" <planejoe(at)ewol.com>
Subject: Re: 8 degree tilt-- gyros
Date: Mar 23, 2000
I just installed some washer between the bottom of the AI and panel to get the 7.5 deg. The instrument dosent seem to know the dif. ( VFR ) RV6A 85 hrs still grinin ----- Original Message ----- From: Norman Hunger <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 10:26 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: 8 degree tilt-- gyros > > > >I keep seeing references to an 8 degree tilt for gyros on the list. Is > > this for air or electric driven, or both? What are the requirements or > > advantages? Thanks, Jim > > > > > > It is for both, Jim. It is due to the tilt of the RVs instrument panel. > > Yes both air driven and electric driven but only concerning the attitude > gyro. I speak only for the RV6, RV6A, and the RV9A. Their panels lean > forward 8 degrees so the attitude gyro would always show a descent unless a > gyro shop modifies it to show level flight on the tilted panel. This means > that you would be at an advantage to buy your attitude gyro from a repair > facility as they will be able to do this modification very easily and at no > extra cost to you before they send it to you. If you buy your gyro at the > flea market you will have to send it out and incur some more cost. > > Can some one let the list know if the RV3, RV4,or RV8 has any panel tilt? > > > Regards, > Norman Hunger > RV6A, Delta, BC. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Re: SCAT Tube
Date: Mar 24, 2000
I'm just a little confused but that wouldn't be anything new. I was under the impression that when you install SCAT, you are supposed to trim it in such a way as to leave a little tail on both the wire and the reinforcing string. Then, bend the wire forward and trap both the wire and the string underneath the clamp. That way, it prevents either of them from coming loose and possible causing the SCAT to collapse. Is this the correct method? Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 "Painting last part - to the airport in 6 days" > In a recent issue of LPM there was an artical that > explaned installation of scat tube. Cut the wire far enough back (1.5" or so) > from the tube end, bend it inward and install the tube. The wire is not > suppose to go over the flange. I questioned this and asked a couple of A&P's > here at the airport and the artical was correct. Sure makes putting the scat > tube on a lot easier. > > Gary Zilik - RV6A - N99PZ - 23.9 hrs > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nancy and Walter Shipley" <wshipley(at)esper.com>
Subject: oilcanning
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Re Bill Pagan's question concerning oilcanning, Bill, George Orndorff, in his "RV Aircraft Systems" tape set addressed this problem by bonding pieces of foam inside the fuselage. If you have those tapes you can find that segment and try his method. If you don't have the tapes let me know and I'll research it for you. Walt Shipley RV8A 314TS (fuselage) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven Frisby" <whamo(at)gci.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 110 Msgs - 03/23/00
Date: Mar 24, 2000
I am about to become the proud owner of an RV-8 tailkit second hand. Do I need to register the transfer of ownership with Vans? Is there a standard procedure to do this? Will I get the same support as the original purchaser? Steven Frisby whamo(at)gci.net Palmer Alaska ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ollie Washburn" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Electric aileron trim question
Date: Mar 24, 2000
My 2 cents? Ihave the manual spring trim on our 6A and as simple and as well that it works I don't see why you would want to go to the extra work and possible flutter to install a moveable tab. In flight the controls are light and the spring is not noticeable. Ollie 6A Tampa ----- Original Message ----- From: <Bdubsrv6a(at)aol.com> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 11:07 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Electric aileron trim question > > C J, > > Like you I don't like the looks of the rv6 wing trim. I would prefer one > that is built into the aileron similar to the elevater trim. There should be > someone out there who has made one like that. Is there anyone out there who > can help us with specs? > > Bud West > rv6a tail feathers > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Japundza, Bob" <bjapundza(at)dowagro.com>
Subject: Electric aileron trim question
Date: Mar 24, 2000
I have the electric aileron trim kit, but haven't built the left aileron yet. I already have the 4-way switch stick grip on the stick and have the electric trim in the elevator---if it simple to mate the bias-spring system with the electric MAC servo and is time-saving I'd love to know about it if anyone has done it. Bob Japundza RV-6 flying soon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net>
Subject: Re: Landing light wiring
Date: Mar 24, 2000
> << I have L and R 100W > Duckworth landing lights in my RV-4. I want to wire these both through one > switch. From what I can determine this equates to about 8 amps each for a > total load of 16 amps. Is it correct in using a 20 amp breaker, through a > single switch and two 14 ga wires going out to each light? >> > In this case the size of the breaker as opposed to the current draw would determine the wire size. Be sure to size each wire large enough for the breaker size used. (ie. be sure each wire is large enough not to melt before the breaker trips) The rule of thumb is that 12 ga. wire is needed to handle 20 amps but check AC 43.13 to be sure. Stan Blanton RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: Re: Electric aileron trim question
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Hi Guys I flew my four for the first summer without any aileron trim and then installed the spring system the next spring....I couldn't fell any difference in stick forces, and the trim system works well. It is a light, cheap and very simple solution to the problem. Joe Hine RV4 C-FYTQ <Mark.Nielsen@fiedler-lp.com> > > > > > >you move the ailerons. I am told that the control forces are > >noticeably heavier with the springs. Please note that I have no > >personal experience with this - I have only flown one RV, and I'm not > >sure which type of trim system it had. > > > >Kevin Horton > > > > Kevin, > > I assume that you are referring to my RV, since we flew together in > DEC 98. It does have the spring system for aileron trim. I am also > not in a position to compare, since I have never flown an RV without > the spring system. However, I suspect that for practical purposes, > the difference in control forces would be negligible. > > On the ground, the spring force is barely noticable for a small stick > movement. With more deflection, the force is stronger, but I would > still consider it light. When you are flying, most normal Cessna-like > maneuvers are accomplished using only small stick movements. For > larger stick deflections, I believe that aerodynamic forces greatly > overshadow any trim spring force. > > Perhaps someone could comment who has experience flying RVs both with > and without aileron trim springs. > > Mark Nielsen > RV-6, 467 hours > Green Bay, WI > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)micron.net>
Subject: Re: Electric aileron trim question
Date: Mar 24, 2000
I flew my 6a for over a year without the springs, then after the installation there was absolutely no discernable difference. At the zero setting, and at small deflections the spring tension cancels itself out. At higher deflections, the slight imbalance is not in any way noticeable. Just think about how little pressure it takes to move the stick 1/8". That's all the trim does. Ed Bundy > Perhaps someone could comment who has experience flying RVs both with > and without aileron trim springs. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Japundza, Bob" <bjapundza(at)dowagro.com>
Subject: Electric aileron trim question
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Now that I think about it, this is how electric aileron trim is set up in the -8. I guess a phone call to Vans for the -8 electric trim drawing will guide me in grafting the setup into my -6. Bob Japundza -----Original Message----- From: Japundza, Bob [mailto:bjapundza(at)dowagro.com] Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 10:21 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Electric aileron trim question I have the electric aileron trim kit, but haven't built the left aileron yet. I already have the 4-way switch stick grip on the stick and have the electric trim in the elevator---if it simple to mate the bias-spring system with the electric MAC servo and is time-saving I'd love to know about it if anyone has done it. Bob Japundza RV-6 flying soon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2000
From: Dave Svajda <djsvajda(at)netscape.net>
Subject: RV8 EmpTransrfer of Ownership
Steve, That's how I got my empennage too. No problem. I aked Vans what to do and they gave me the following info. You need a bill of sale transferring the kit to you worded like this: I convey ownership of RV8 #_____ to Steven Frisby." No need to mention selling price. Then mail a copy (or fax) to Vans. Dave Svajda 6A Rudder Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2000
From: Dave <central-data@central-data.demon.co.uk>
Subject: 0320 B2C Engine
Hi all looking at buying a 0320 B2c engine (600 hours) looked in archive seems to be OK with rv6 any one know any reason why not to buy. also assuming it will fit what mount do I need and do vans supply one ? Thanks -- Dave RV6 (about to order finishing kit) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4Brown(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Subject: Re: need help airflow performance fuel pump location RV4
Dear Carey, I am building an RV4, fuel injected, O-360, CS. I have installed my airflow performance fuel pump using adel clamps in the normal battery compartment on the right vertical. I also installed two fuel filters. The fuel filters are installed in the floor compartments just forward of the wing spar on the left and right footwells. I decided to install the battery in the baggage compartment for several reasons. First, the weight and balance with the bigger engine and a 45 pound propellor seemed to make the nose a little heavy. ( However, I was told by Van's that this wouldn't be a problem) Second. There is precious little room in that battery area up front. I ran heating conduit through it for the back seat. I also ran the purge line for the fuel injection system back through this area. There are also lots of wires from the other junk I decided I just had to have running through this area as well. As an alternate, I might suggest mounting the pump to the lower engine mount between the exhaust pipes. Without the scat tubing, I think I still could have mounted the battery up front. Good luck Tom Brown RV4 - working on the wiring RV4Brown(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2000
From: "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: x-c trip
If your trip takes you near Winter Park, CO (Granby GNB) give me a call. skiing other high mtn activities Rocky Mtn park Grand Lake & a reasonable number of RVs Andy 970 887-2207 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: pulling my hair out by the primers
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Alright, I'm getting frustrated here. I picked up PPG's mil spec epoxy primer...and a tech sheet on it locally. I read on the tech sheet that it is not a vapor barrier. A call to PPG varified that the primer needs to be topcoated. I have no intention of putting a FINISH coat on the INTERIOR of my plane so next step....call Vans. 'We use sherwin williams wash primer on the quickbuilds. GREAT, I said.....is it a vapor barrier? 'Don't think so' Says they.... Then why bother priming if it doesn't stop corrosion? says a getting frustrated new builder. 'Um, call sherwin williams'. So I did....it needs to be topcoated to prevent corrosion, says Mr Sherwin Williams. Alright, now I was really getting confused. Call aircraft spruce....they check all kinds of stuff and come back with.....nope, no primers that are also vapor barriers, they need topcoats. SO, those in the know....please tell me. Why should I bother priming the interior of my aircraft with a substance that doesn't prevent corrosion?? The primers I've heard most about on this list have only one purpose according to the people I've spoken to......to give the finish coat a better surface to bond to. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: pulling my hair out by the primers...PRIMER WARS BEWARE
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Please check the archives about primers...all you want to know and more. Bottom line... >Why should I bother priming the > interior of my aircraft with a substance that doesn't prevent corrosion?? Some prime...some don't...but your observation is correct. Ross Mickey RV6A...finishing kit ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Shook <billshook(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 12:19 PM Subject: RV-List: pulling my hair out by the primers > > Alright, I'm getting frustrated here. I picked up PPG's mil spec epoxy > primer...and a tech sheet on it locally. I read on the tech sheet that it > is not a vapor barrier. A call to PPG varified that the primer needs to be > topcoated. I have no intention of putting a FINISH coat on the INTERIOR of > my plane so next step....call Vans. 'We use sherwin williams wash primer on > the quickbuilds. GREAT, I said.....is it a vapor barrier? 'Don't think > so' Says they.... Then why bother priming if it doesn't stop corrosion? > says a getting frustrated new builder. 'Um, call sherwin williams'. So I > did....it needs to be topcoated to prevent corrosion, says Mr Sherwin > Williams. > > Alright, now I was really getting confused. Call aircraft spruce....they > check all kinds of stuff and come back with.....nope, no primers that are > also vapor barriers, they need topcoats. > > SO, those in the know....please tell me. Why should I bother priming the > interior of my aircraft with a substance that doesn't prevent corrosion?? > The primers I've heard most about on this list have only one purpose > according to the people I've spoken to......to give the finish coat a better > surface to bond to. > > Bill > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2000
From: Tim Houle <thoule(at)kneehill.com>
Subject: Re: pulling my hair out by the primers
I second your frustration. The only reason I can think of is that the primer may be a barrier between two dissimilar metals (ie alclad and say t6061). It seems to me to be overkill and that it just adds weight. I don't know though....I've given this alot of thought. Would you get the same corrosion protection by just using alodine? Tim Houle RV6 wings Three Hills, Alberta > >Alright, I'm getting frustrated here. I picked up PPG's mil spec epoxy >primer...and a tech sheet on it locally. I read on the tech sheet that it >is not a vapor barrier. A call to PPG varified that the primer needs to be >topcoated. I have no intention of putting a FINISH coat on the INTERIOR of >my plane so next step....call Vans. 'We use sherwin williams wash primer on >the quickbuilds. GREAT, I said.....is it a vapor barrier? 'Don't think >so' Says they.... Then why bother priming if it doesn't stop corrosion? >says a getting frustrated new builder. 'Um, call sherwin williams'. So I >did....it needs to be topcoated to prevent corrosion, says Mr Sherwin >Williams. > >Alright, now I was really getting confused. Call aircraft spruce....they >check all kinds of stuff and come back with.....nope, no primers that are >also vapor barriers, they need topcoats. > >SO, those in the know....please tell me. Why should I bother priming the >interior of my aircraft with a substance that doesn't prevent corrosion?? >The primers I've heard most about on this list have only one purpose >according to the people I've spoken to......to give the finish coat a better >surface to bond to. > >Bill > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ted.ce.lemen(at)lmco.com.Fri,
24 Mar 2000 14:36:45.-0700(at)matronics.com (MST)
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Subject: pulling my hair out by the primers
Your last sentence was correct, maybe that is why Cessna,Piper etc don't prime the insides plus it adds weight. Actually the primers due resist moisture but not like paint would. > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Shook [SMTP:billshook(at)mindspring.com] > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 1:20 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: pulling my hair out by the primers > > > Alright, I'm getting frustrated here. I picked up PPG's mil spec epoxy > primer...and a tech sheet on it locally. I read on the tech sheet that it > is not a vapor barrier. A call to PPG varified that the primer needs to > be > topcoated. I have no intention of putting a FINISH coat on the INTERIOR > of > my plane so next step....call Vans. 'We use sherwin williams wash primer > on > the quickbuilds. GREAT, I said.....is it a vapor barrier? 'Don't think > so' Says they.... Then why bother priming if it doesn't stop corrosion? > says a getting frustrated new builder. 'Um, call sherwin williams'. So > I > did....it needs to be topcoated to prevent corrosion, says Mr Sherwin > Williams. > > Alright, now I was really getting confused. Call aircraft spruce....they > check all kinds of stuff and come back with.....nope, no primers that are > also vapor barriers, they need topcoats. > > SO, those in the know....please tell me. Why should I bother priming the > interior of my aircraft with a substance that doesn't prevent corrosion?? > The primers I've heard most about on this list have only one purpose > according to the people I've spoken to......to give the finish coat a > better > surface to bond to. > > Bill > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2000
From: cmcgough <rv6(at)ssc.net.au>
Subject: Re: pulling my hair out by the primers
I am using BMS 10/11 There are 2 types one needs a top coat and the other doesn't. So easy..... I use non top coat on inside and the one that needs a top coat on outside. This stuff is Mill Spec and not good for the lungs.It is available there. Aparently this is the stuff boeing uses??. I figure if the big guys use it !! There is so much info about primer easy to get confused. Chris RV6 Fuse Australia > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net>
Subject: Re: pulling my hair out by the primers
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Bill, like you, I struggled with the primer thing and finally settled on PPG DP48 epoxy primer. You don't mention what specific PPG product you're talking about but the mil spec version is DP70 and the data sheet I have says it's an excellent corrosion-resistant product as is the DP48 product. PPG has several different epoxy primers that are the same except for color. DP40 Gray/green DP48 White DP50 Gray DP60 Blue DP74 Red Oxide DP90 Black None of the above product needs to be topcoated to provide corrosion protection. They are not self etching so the underlying material needs to be prep'd as you see fit. I have only been etching then primering the products so far. I will alodine the wing parts when the time comes though. Some of my experience can be view here http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page/Priming.htm Good luck Mike & Beth Nellis RV6 N699BM (res), Plainfield, IL http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Shook <billshook(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 02:19 PM Subject: RV-List: pulling my hair out by the primers > > Alright, I'm getting frustrated here. I picked up PPG's mil spec epoxy > primer...and a tech sheet on it locally. I read on the tech sheet that it > is not a vapor barrier. A call to PPG varified that the primer needs to be > topcoated. I have no intention of putting a FINISH coat on the INTERIOR of > my plane so next step....call Vans. 'We use sherwin williams wash primer on > the quickbuilds. GREAT, I said.....is it a vapor barrier? 'Don't think > so' Says they.... Then why bother priming if it doesn't stop corrosion? > says a getting frustrated new builder. 'Um, call sherwin williams'. So I > did....it needs to be topcoated to prevent corrosion, says Mr Sherwin > Williams. > > Alright, now I was really getting confused. Call aircraft spruce....they > check all kinds of stuff and come back with.....nope, no primers that are > also vapor barriers, they need topcoats. > > SO, those in the know....please tell me. Why should I bother priming the > interior of my aircraft with a substance that doesn't prevent corrosion?? > The primers I've heard most about on this list have only one purpose > according to the people I've spoken to......to give the finish coat a better > surface to bond to. > > Bill > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2000
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: pulling my hair out by the primers
"Bill Shook" wrote: snip "Why should I bother priming the interior of my aircraft with a substance that doesn't prevent corrosion??" snip Bill, While it may not "prevent" corrosion, but it sure may slow it down. Think about 2 steel parts out in the garden. One has a crappy "non vapor barrier" coat of primer on it. One doesn't have any coating. Which do you think will last longer? Just a thought, Laird RV-6 22923 SoCal final details, details, details..... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2000
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: RV-4 Forward canopy
Thanks for the offer but a bit far right now. I live in Harrisburg NC Earl pcondon(at)csc.com wrote: > > > How far from NJ ? your welcome to see my RV-4.... > > e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net on 03/22/2000 05:40:21 PM > > Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Forward canopy > > > I would also like a photo. Other than going to a real RV4 they just dont > seem to be any photos of the front of canopy especialy the right front. > Earl about to start on the canopy again. > > Dave Hyde wrote: > > > > > > Howdy, > > > > Has anyone here got a pointer to a good photo or drawing of an > > RV-4 canopy and frame? I'm particularly interested in the forward > > portion where the skin meets the frame, and the plans/manual > > just don't cut it. > > > > Dave Hyde > > nauga(at)brick.net > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Oilcanning?
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Throw some speed tape on the suspected areas and go fly--see if it goes away. If it does, you might have to add a stiffener between the fuse bulkheads. If it's the rudder, probably going to have to live with it, but at least you'll know where it is. Good luck. Pat Hatch RV-4 N17PH @ VRB & INT RV-6 Fuselage on order. ----- Original Message ----- From: "pagan" <pagan(at)cboss.com> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 9:12 PM Subject: RV-List: Oilcanning? > > Looking for some input from y'all. > > When I get to about 155 mph IAS I get a noisy vibration that sounds like > high speed oilcanning coming from the rear fuse area. I don't feel > anything in the stick or pedals and I hear it more than feel it. I've > checked all the flight control linkage and theres no problem there. I'm > thinking it's either the belly skin between the 808 & 809 or perhaps the > rudder skin (I did have some oilcanning there). I really can't tell where > its coming from, just rear of the rear seat. Oh yea, it doesn't always do > this...just sometimes. Any ideas? > > > Bill Pagan > RV-8A N565BW First flight 12/19/99 > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2000
From: David Aronson <daronson(at)cwnet.com>
Subject: Re: 0360 governor adapter needed
Listers: I just ordered my prop and gov from Van's. I have an 0360 A1AD with rear accessory case. I need to find a prop governor adapter and also the hose that goes from the adapter to the right front of the engine. If you have these parts get back to me off the list. THANKS David Aronson RV4 FWFWD N504RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vince Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
Subject: Landing light wiring
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Are sure that you are using TWO 100W lights? I bought the Duckworth lights and they consisted of a 55W halogen light in each fixture for a TOTAL of 110W. 110W/12V= 9.2A total. This would be 4.6A per light. I would think that the circuit protection would be sized to take the total load. The wire from the circuit protection to the switch would be sized for the total current (9.2A) and a wire going out to each wing from the switch would be sized to handle 4.6A as well as accounting for the voltage drop. This looks to me like a # 14 feeder and # 16 (for voltage drop) branch circuit wires with a 10 to 15 amp fuse/breaker. Am I missing something here? Vince RV-8A Fuel Tanks -----Original Message----- From: Doug Weiler [SMTP:dougweil(at)pressenter.com] Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 10:09 PM Subject: RV-List: Landing light wiring Fellow Listers: Since I am an electrical blockhead, please help me out. I have L and R 100W Duckworth landing lights in my RV-4. I want to wire these both through one switch. From what I can determine this equates to about 8 amps each for a total load of 16 amps. Is it correct in using a 20 amp breaker, through a single switch and two 14 ga wires going out to each light? Thanks, Doug =========== Doug Weiler Hudson, WI 715-386-1239 dougweil(at)pressenter.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: pulling my hair out by the primers
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Mike, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but its exactly that series that I have in my hand. I spoke to PPG directly (their website has a phone number if you'd like to call) and they told me without doubt that the DP series is NOT to be left as a corrosion inhibitor and that it is NOT a vapor barrier of any sort without a topcoat. However, their product sheet says 'excellent corrosion-resistant epoxy primer'. I've used this series of primer quite a bit in the past on fiberglass and like it alot, that is why I went with it again. But the manufacturer says .... Not recommended. Even with the vapor barrier issue aside (and I fail to see the point in primering without it) PPG still recommended their self etching primer (DX 1791) for alclad applications. Just some of the info I've collected today. Bill > > Bill, like you, I struggled with the primer thing and finally settled on PPG > DP48 epoxy primer. You don't mention what specific PPG product you're > talking about but the mil spec version is DP70 and the data sheet I have > says it's an excellent corrosion-resistant product as is the DP48 product. > PPG has several different epoxy primers that are the same except for color. > > DP40 Gray/green > DP48 White > DP50 Gray > DP60 Blue > DP74 Red Oxide > DP90 Black > > None of the above product needs to be topcoated to provide corrosion > protection. They are not self etching so the underlying material needs to > be prep'd as you see fit. I have only been etching then primering the > products so far. I will alodine the wing parts when the time comes though. > > Some of my experience can be view here > http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page/Priming.htm > > Good luck > > Mike & Beth Nellis > RV6 N699BM (res), Plainfield, IL > http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Shook <billshook(at)mindspring.com> > To: > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 02:19 PM > Subject: RV-List: pulling my hair out by the primers > > > > > > Alright, I'm getting frustrated here. I picked up PPG's mil spec epoxy > > primer...and a tech sheet on it locally. I read on the tech sheet that it > > is not a vapor barrier. A call to PPG varified that the primer needs to > be > > topcoated. I have no intention of putting a FINISH coat on the INTERIOR > of > > my plane so next step....call Vans. 'We use sherwin williams wash primer > on > > the quickbuilds. GREAT, I said.....is it a vapor barrier? 'Don't think > > so' Says they.... Then why bother priming if it doesn't stop corrosion? > > says a getting frustrated new builder. 'Um, call sherwin williams'. So > I > > did....it needs to be topcoated to prevent corrosion, says Mr Sherwin > > Williams. > > > > Alright, now I was really getting confused. Call aircraft spruce....they > > check all kinds of stuff and come back with.....nope, no primers that are > > also vapor barriers, they need topcoats. > > > > SO, those in the know....please tell me. Why should I bother priming the > > interior of my aircraft with a substance that doesn't prevent corrosion?? > > The primers I've heard most about on this list have only one purpose > > according to the people I've spoken to......to give the finish coat a > better > > surface to bond to. > > > > Bill > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2000
From: David Aronson <daronson(at)cwnet.com>
Subject: Re: pulling my hair out by the primers
Hey Bill: Went through the same decision tree a few years back. After a few days of research by PPG they recommended NCP-271 Corrosion Resistant Primer. It needs to be mixed with NCX-275 catalyst. You will find any epoxy type primer will in fact resist moisture or as you had put it, form a barrier. The oxidation that you are trying to prevent is not a big factor as the oxidation of aluminum and most every metal is figured in the overall adhesive design of the paint. In other words, all paints depend to an extent on an oxide layer existing on the surface. It happens the minute you dry the surface. So. Pick any epoxy or two part primer and it will "seal the surface" long enough for you to wear out the airplane before you see any problems. David Aronson RV4 FWFWD N504RV Bill Shook wrote: > > Alright, I'm getting frustrated here. I picked up PPG's mil spec epoxy > primer...and a tech sheet on it locally. I read on the tech sheet that it > is not a vapor barrier. A call to PPG varified that the primer needs to be > topcoated. I have no intention of putting a FINISH coat on the INTERIOR of > my plane so next step....call Vans. 'We use sherwin williams wash primer on > the quickbuilds. GREAT, I said.....is it a vapor barrier? 'Don't think > so' Says they.... Then why bother priming if it doesn't stop corrosion? > says a getting frustrated new builder. 'Um, call sherwin williams'. So I > did....it needs to be topcoated to prevent corrosion, says Mr Sherwin > Williams. > > Alright, now I was really getting confused. Call aircraft spruce....they > check all kinds of stuff and come back with.....nope, no primers that are > also vapor barriers, they need topcoats. > > SO, those in the know....please tell me. Why should I bother priming the > interior of my aircraft with a substance that doesn't prevent corrosion?? > The primers I've heard most about on this list have only one purpose > according to the people I've spoken to......to give the finish coat a better > surface to bond to. > > Bill > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: pulling my hair out by the primers
Date: Mar 24, 2000
True, BUT....lets consider two aluminum parts out in the garden. One with the factory applied, seriously bonded alclad material and one where that material has been sanded/etched off and a 'crappy non vapor barrier' coat applied in it's place. See my point? Yes, all non alclad needs something and something is better than nothing....but in the grand scheme of things the non alclad is a small part of what I'm working with so far. Bill > Think about 2 steel parts out in the garden. One has a crappy "non vapor barrier" coat of primer on it. One doesn't have any coating. > > Which do you think will last longer? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Subject: Re: 8 degree tilt-- gyros
In a message dated 03/24/2000 5:12:06 AM Pacific Standard Time, planejoe(at)ewol.com writes: << I just installed some washer between the bottom of the AI and panel >> Maybe a tapered shim drilled to match then painted would work out well. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2000
From: Dave Svajda <djsvajda(at)netscape.net>
Subject: Re: pulling my hair out by the primers]
Bill, I agree with Mike Nellis on the DP series epoxy primers. I've used them on auto body panels and they are bullet proof. Waterproof after they set. Don't require a top coat. I'm priming the inside and outside of my 6A with the latest in the DP line the "DPLF" series. Available in the same colors as DP and, according to my auto paint store and PPG product information bulletin P-196, it is easy to spray on aluminum and fiberglass. Weighs 4.6 lbs per gallon Lot's of good things about the product, but a few negatives: Fairly expensive -- expect to pay about $170 for 4 qts primer and 2qts catalyst. Short pot life -- mix only what you need to use. You have to let it set 30 minutes after you mix before you can spray. My experience is that you've got about an hour to shoot after this. Chemically hazardous -- like any isocyanate take appropriate precaution. I'm not sure if all this protection is necessary, but since it's going to be my butt up there, I'll splurge an extra $170 Dave "You can only tie the record for low altitude flight." Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net>
Subject: Re: Moroso remote oil filter
Date: Mar 24, 2000
The reason for the remote filter is to keep oil from leaking down the engine during a filter change and possibly easier access. The engine hasn't been mounted yet so now seems to be the right time to consider this. Do you see a problem that I may have overlooked? Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: Hal Kempthorne <kempthorne(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 8:12 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Moroso remote oil filter > > > I want to install a remote oil filter on a O-360A1A. > > I'm just curious, Tom, why??? > > hal > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2000
From: Vincent Himsl <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com>
Subject: RV8 Tank Observations
Hello, Just finished up my tanks and while fresh would like to pass on my personal observations. RV8 First Time Builder Started empennage March 97 BEFORE you rivet down the leading edge, make sure you have installed the nut plates on the top and bottom tank corner to leading edge corner interface as the leading edge skin covers one of the hole locations for one of the tank nut plates. I did a work around by slanting the nut plate as in the first four inboard locations but it would have been easier had I not had to do this. When drilling on the spar, I use WD40 as a cutting oil. I bought some Boelube(sp?) from Avery's and though it works great, not appreciably faster nor better than wd40. The Avery 1/2 by #30 countersink bit is mandatory(as in I don't know how to countersink the tank attach holes without it). Use lots of cutting oil and go slow and easy to minimize the chatter look to the holes. Again WD40 and or Boelube helps The left wing tank skin lined up perfectly except that I had to progressively trim the bottom tank skin to bottom wing skin interface near the wing root. The right wing spar was I think much better aligned yet the tank skin required extensive trimming, both on the splice plate section and near the wing root. Go figure? The first tank, I did the flush rivets along the baffle immediately after applying the pro seal. The second tank, I used a few sacrificial clecoes along with the wooden blocks to squeeze out the excess pro seal. Then after the pro seal set, I countersunk drilled and riveted. I recommend the second method based on ease and quality of rivet job. Use a helper when riveting the tank and for that matter the leading edge. It really save time and improves quality. Balloon method works great for leak test...check archives. Careful with air pressure or you'll create a leak. If you find a leak, use the method Scott McDaniel suggested (archives). I did, and it works great. In the corners and tips of the inboard and outboard ribs, really goop on the pro seal as that seems to be the weakest point, and nobody sees it anyway. For those of you who are trying to make it through this project without having to buy another head for your hand held rivet squeezer I suggest this method for riveting on the quick connect to the bottom of the tank. Use the short cylindrical rod(does any one know what it is used for anyway) that came with your Avery C Frame dimpler as a rivet head. That is, stick it in your rivet gun(the narrow end) and use it as back rivet set. When you get to this point, you'll know what I mean. Easy on the pro seal when installing the baffle. If you study the arrangement you will notice that the rivets AD-41H, 42H are solid 'Pop'. So you have the rib, the baffle, and the bracket with the rivet going through all of them. To seal it adequately you only need Pro Seal on the bottom of the Z bracket and all over the rivet after it is inserted. You might(I did) put a tiny bit around the rib holes but take the plans warning about the tank not fitting if you put on too much pro seal seriously. My leaks were near the leading edge, not on the baffle. Mix the pro seal by the volume method. I bought a heavy duty ice cream scooper and saved a bunch of those 8 oz yogurt containers with lids. Fill up half way with the beige goop (to the bottom of the blue line if you use Lucerne brand yogurt) and add two teaspoons of the black stuff (catalyst, activator, ?). Should be plenty for each of the sessions if you follow the recommended sequence. Put pro seal stuff in the freezer when not in use as it seems to prolong its usefulness. Gives you an extra day on the mixed yogurt cup remains for touch ups. I use pop sickle sticks and those throw away plastic gloves that come in what looks like a kleennex box. I didn't care if they were powdered or not...I don't think the Pro Seal cared either. Take an old flat blade screwdriver, cut off the handle and use it with your cordless to stir the pro seal. And finally, don't be put off by the dread factor. As others have mentioned, once into it, things seem to go fairly smooth and you and I both know those tanks are not going to build themselves. Cleaning off pro seal? Lacquer Thinner or Coleman fuel in a pinch. Don't try and salvage the clecoes you used...order replacements. Now on to the fuselage! Regards, Vince Himsl RV8 fuselage jig Moscow, ID USA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2000
From: "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: Moroso remote oil filter
> The reason for the remote filter is to keep oil from leaking down the engine > during a filter change and possibly easier access. Before you unscrew your filter during an oil change, punch a small hole in the skin of the filter on top. Then unscrew it 1/2 a turn so the hole is on bottom. 99% of the oil in the filter will now drain out of this hole into a small can you that you put below it. Once it is drained you can unscrew it the rest of the way without any mess. The little bit of oil that remains is easily absorbed by an old rag. Andy Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: Landing light wiring
Date: Mar 24, 2000
> > Are sure that you are using TWO 100W lights? I bought the Duckworth lights > and they consisted of a 55W halogen light in each fixture for a TOTAL of > 110W. 110W/12V= 9.2A total. This would be 4.6A per light. I would think > that the circuit protection would be sized to take the total load. The > wire from the circuit protection to the switch would be sized for the total > current (9.2A) and a wire going out to each wing from the switch would be > sized to handle 4.6A as well as accounting for the voltage drop. This > looks to me like a # 14 feeder and # 16 (for voltage drop) branch circuit > wires with a 10 to 15 amp fuse/breaker. Am I missing something here? Vince: I removed the 55W bulbs and replaced with 100W bulbs (cheap at Wal Mart). The Duckworth lights are essentially automotive running lights. I agree with your assessment of the needed wiring. Scott at Van's said to use a 20amp CB/fuse with 14 ga wire and just be sure that the switch is rated for 20 amps. Does that make sense? Doug ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Re: Landing light wiring
Date: Mar 24, 2000
> I'd get a few 30A rated aftermarket driving lamp relays from the auto parts > store and use them to decouple the high inrush current (much more than > continuous) to the lamps from the panel switch. Has anyone put the current from a landing light circuit on an oscilloscope, to actually measure the inrush current? Inrush currents are associated with non-resistive loads. Incandescent lights are resistive. The capacitance of a landing light circuit certainly can't be enough to make much of a spike. What am I missing? Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2000
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: x-c trip
Ed Bundy wrote: > > > My wife and I are going to take a leisurely RV tour of the Western US for > about a week. Our basic flight plan will be from Boise, ID to Sedona, AZ to > Kansas City, and back to Boise. > > If anyone has any ideas on places that are must-see, must-stay, must-eat, or > just generally interesting I would love to hear about it. Ed, you may have already seen this link, but just in case you haven't, here are details about a trip involving three RV's to the great southwest: http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/west_trip.html Enjoy the ride! You are going to see some spectacular country. Sam Buchanan (already plannin' to go back) "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal ----------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2000
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: Moroso remote oil filter
Tom Barnes wrote: > > The reason for the remote filter is to keep oil from leaking down the engine > during a filter change and possibly easier access. > The engine hasn't been mounted yet so now seems to be the right time to > consider this. Do you see a problem that I may have overlooked? > > Tom I was originally going the same route you are. I talked myself out of it. 1. I already had a paid for spin on adapter mounted on the engine. 2. Remote filter added 6 more failure points under the cowl; Each fitting (4) and two hoses. 3. Added expense. 4. Added weight, and weight slows us down. 5. The lycoming spin on is simple Gary Zilik RV6A - N99PZ - 25.1 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oilcanning?
Date: Mar 24, 2000
>From: pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Oilcanning? >Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:12:23 -0500 > > >Looking for some input from y'all. > >When I get to about 155 mph IAS I get a noisy vibration that sounds like >high speed oilcanning coming from the rear fuse area. I don't feel >anything in the stick or pedals and I hear it more than feel it. I've >checked all the flight control linkage and theres no problem there. I'm >thinking it's either the belly skin between the 808 & 809 or perhaps the >rudder skin (I did have some oilcanning there). I really can't tell where >its coming from, just rear of the rear seat. Oh yea, it doesn't always do >this...just sometimes. Any ideas? > > >Bill Pagan >RV-8A N565BW First flight 12/19/99 >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html Bill, As long as you're SURE it isn't flutter, I'd suspect oil canning down on the belly between the 808 and 809 like you suggest. I don't think you could hear oil canning coming from the tail. My right elevator skin has some canning going on, but I never hear it. The belly skin on my plane bongs and pops down there while taxiing and really makes a lot of racket when it stalls. Does it do it while the airplane has some G on it? When it does it, try pulling some G load on it and see if it stops, or gets worse. The subtle tension/compression placed on the belly while loading and unloading the wing might give you some hints. At least that's what I'd try next. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD 65 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Imfairings(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Subject: Re: Lower Rudder Fiberglass Cap Question...
Matt Grind, cut, chew the "thingy" off and tape something you have waxed good to the outside of the part on both sides so they meet at the trailing edge. I'm ahead of my self, after grinding, sand the inside so the new stuff will stick. Then tape etc. Now lay several layers of material inside the part using the taped on 'something' as the outside surface. Remove the 'something' after it cures, and sand and fill as required. Just use the right resin, 'ester will smell when you sand it, epoxy does't have much oder or smell the same. Bob, FAIRINGS ETC. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Landing light wiring
> > >> I'd get a few 30A rated aftermarket driving lamp relays from the auto >parts >> store and use them to decouple the high inrush current (much more than >> continuous) to the lamps from the panel switch. > >Has anyone put the current from a landing light circuit on an oscilloscope, >to actually measure the inrush current? Inrush currents are associated >with non-resistive loads. Incandescent lights are resistive. The >capacitance of a landing light circuit certainly can't be enough to make >much of a spike. What am I missing? > >Alex Peterson The resistance of the lamp filament increases significantly as it heats up. So, when it is cold, the current is much higher for a fraction of a second until the bulb warms up. According to "Electric Bob", the theoretical inrush current is up to 16 times the current you have once the bulb is up to temperature. Note that this 16 x value assumes zero resistance in the rest of the circuit, so the inrush current would be quite a bit lower in practice. Kevin Horton RV-8 (riveting fuselage skins) Ottawa, Canada http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4Brown(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Subject: Re: RV4 - Flying
Hi Mike, It was good to hear from you. I hope you still have your project and will be in a position to complete it soon. I need some help. I am expecting to take my airplane to the airport in June and hopefully fly it in July. I now have about 15 hours in taildraggers. 10 in a J3, 4 in a Chief, and 1 in an RV4, 1 in a super decathelon, 2 hours with Mike Seager in the RV6. I have my tailwheel signoff. I would like to get some time in an RV4. Given my weight 220, I need to find someone with a big block O-360 willing to give me some time. I could also use some more tail wheel time in anything. The closest aircraft I have found are the J3's at Andover. I was hoping maybe you might be able to lead me toward some folks that might be able to help. Worst case, I would like to get some RV6 time. i managed to fly about 35 hours since August. Second issue is the first flight. My boss insists on me hiring a test pilot for the first couple of flights. Given my experience level, I don't disagree with him. I was wondering whether you might know of a good RV4 driver that would be interested in the job. I built a great airplane. I am not afraid of anything in the machine and I seldom compromised on anything. Look foreword to hearing from you. Cheers Tom brown ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lkyswede(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Subject: Re: Landing light wiring
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From: Rvmils(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-4 Florida Plates
Hey Pat, My wife is from Ft. Pierce and we occasionally visit her folks, I would love to look you up next time were in town. I'm station at Ft. Rucker, AL going through flight school and I have been building a RV4 for 2 years, hopefully it will fly this summer. Blue Skies, Carey Mills ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2000
From: hal kempthorne <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Moroso remote oil filter
Tom wrote: >>The reason for the remote filter is to keep oil from leaking ...... Do you see a problem that I may have overlooked?<< Mostly I would not do it as it adds more places for oil to gush out while over the worst terrain. I have seen lots of engines lose oil (okay auto engines) but the big leaks are *ALWAYS* from hoses, pipes and other connections. Well, except for the time I left the drain plug loose on a customer's Volvo. When I test drove it after the overhaul, I heard a clunk and instantly remembered that plug and shut it down. There is also that weight consideration. For a while, I kept a log of things that added weight beyond Van's design - little things add up. hal (note OUR new email address) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2000
From: hal kempthorne <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: x-c trip
Don't really know who wrote what as I missed a few days of rvlist. But a tour of the west is enhanced by visiting Washington, Oregon and California! Idaho and the Arid Zone are back east! hal > > My wife and I are going to take a leisurely RV tour of the Western US for > > about a week. Our basic flight plan will be from Boise, ID to Sedona, AZ to > > Kansas City, and back to Boise. > > > > If anyone has any ideas on places that are must-see, must-stay, must-eat, or > > just generally interesting I would love to hear about it. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kathy & Bill Peck" <peck(at)amigo.net>
Subject: re: Electric aileron trim question
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Chris - Our opinions were on the same track as yours - we wanted electric trim (for various reasons), but didn't especially like the trim tab hanging off the trailing edge of the aileron - looked like a good "pants ripper" to us. On our -6A(Q), we built a "hybrid" system. We ordered and installed the manual (bias spring) trim system, but moved the control mounting plate down an inch or so. We then turned (and shortened) the control "handle", and connected it to a MAC trim servo mounted to one of the center floor ribs. This provides electric actuation of the manual trim system, and the entire system is mounted just below the floor plates that cover the stick pivots and control system. It works just fine for us, and doesn't have that little tab hanging out where it can rip pants. Of course, another good solution would be to clip a little piece out of the aileron and turn it into a small version of the elevator trim tab (using the normal electric trim system)(as Kevin Horton suggested), but this hybrid system seemed easier when we were planning it, and experience is showing that it does indeed work liked we hoped it would. Don't you just love all the different possibilities to consider when you're building the plane of your dreams????!!! Bill & Kathy Peck - RV-6A(Q) flying! (and strating to think about where to go when we can both fly at the same time!) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kathy & Bill Peck" <peck(at)amigo.net>
Subject: re:Mixture cable travel
Date: Mar 24, 2000
Randy - You asked "for those of you with experience with the Marvel Schebler MA-4-5 carbs; does one need every bit of the mixture arm travel, or is the last bit redundant? I'm not sure as to whether you can "cheat" a little on the full rich end, but my experience on the mixture cutoff (lean) end of the travel is that if you can't get pretty much all the way to the stop, you're likely to need to kill the mags to get the engine to quit. At idle, it just doesn't take much fuel to keep these Lycomings running. On our engine, I find that getting it to stop frequently requires a quick twist of the vernier control to make sure it's all the way to the stop, and not just at the "thread" position that pulling the vernier cable straight back and letting go of the center knob gives (possibly anywhere from minimum stop to almost one "turn" open on the cable thread - maybe 8 turns per inch? - I haven't measured it). If I had to make the installation you're describing, I think I'd be trying to find a way to either shorten the lever arm on the carb end or lengthen the quadrant lever, if there's any way to accomplish that. After playing with the vernier cable on our -6A, I just have a suspicion that you'll fight getting yours to do everything you want it to do if you settle for less than full travel on the carb end of this control... Good luck! Bill & Kathy Peck - RV-6A(Q) @ 25 hours now! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris & Kellie Hand" <ckhand(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV8 Tank Observations
Date: Mar 24, 2000
> > Cleaning off pro seal? Lacquer Thinner or Coleman fuel in a pinch. Don't > try and salvage the clecoes you used...order replacements. > Vince, Thanks for the feedback...it was timely for me as I'm about half way done with sealing my -6A tanks and still learning as I go. However, before anyone throws away perfectly good clecoes, I have been following some advice I picked up here on the list that has made keeping things clean pretty easy. I cut up some of those shop paper towels you can get by the roll at the auto parts store (made squares around 3"x3" or so), then kept a small bowl of MEK and another of coleman fuel nearby. Excess proseal is easily cleaned up by dipping one of the towel squares into the MEK, wiping and throwing away. I also keep an old margarine tub (or glass jar) of MEK on the table that I drop the clecoes into when I remove them for riveting. Once that particular pro-seal session is done, the clecoes are then easily wiped clean using the small towel squares. The clecoes come out as clean and functional as before you started. Chris Hand RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2000
From: George True <true(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Pulling my hair out by the primers
Bill, Check in the archives under Super Korporon. There was a thread about this primer several months ago, which incidentally was started by me. I had heard amazing things about it, and so I put the question out about it. Three or four listers who had direct experience using it responded and said that it it a moisture barrier. It is used by, among others, Gulfstream and Airbus Industrie. As you might imagine, it's expensive. Also, I recall a mini-thread several weeks ago that talked about one of the Deft brand primers that I believe is also considered to be a moisture barrier. You should be able to find both of these in the archives with no problem. George True ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: CHT & EGT Probe Placement
Date: Mar 25, 2000
Lister's, I am installing a single channel EI CHT & EGT unit in my 8A. I gather from the archives that the hottest cylinder is either #3 or #4. I have a IO-360A1A with the oil cooler installed behind # 4. I am inclined to assume that # 4 will be running the hottest both in CHT & EGT. Any comments out there. Thanks....Mark Mark Steffensen Dallas, TX Testing Wiring Circuits ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark D. Dickens" <mddickens(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: pulling my hair out by the primers
Date: Mar 25, 2000
In the interior of the plane, what you're after is not necessarily a vapor barrier, but corrosion protection. The zinc chromate in most primers provides that protection through the chromate ions which are freed when moisture is applied. Jeppesen's "Aircraft Painting and Finishing" book states (page 5): "Zinc chromate is held in an alkyd resin. This does not produce an absolutely tight surface, but allows a small amount of water to enter the film and free some of the chromate ions, preventing, or at least inhibiting, the formation of corrosion on the surface it protects". Obviously, this statement addresses the "old style" zinc chromate primers as opposed to epoxy based primers, but the point is clear...it's not the base used to put the zinc chromate there, it's the zinc chromate (or other chemical compound, like zinc oxide) that provides the protection. Personally, I use Akzo and love it...it does protect against corrosion, so does zinc chromate...I don't know about the PPG stuff. Mark Dickens Germantown, TN RV-8 Wings, Ailerons, Flaps and Tanks ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Shook <billshook(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 2:19 PM Subject: RV-List: pulling my hair out by the primers > > Alright, I'm getting frustrated here. I picked up PPG's mil spec epoxy > primer...and a tech sheet on it locally. I read on the tech sheet that it > is not a vapor barrier. A call to PPG varified that the primer needs to be > topcoated. I have no intention of putting a FINISH coat on the INTERIOR of > my plane so next step....call Vans. 'We use sherwin williams wash primer on > the quickbuilds. GREAT, I said.....is it a vapor barrier? 'Don't think > so' Says they.... Then why bother priming if it doesn't stop corrosion? > says a getting frustrated new builder. 'Um, call sherwin williams'. So I > did....it needs to be topcoated to prevent corrosion, says Mr Sherwin > Williams. > > Alright, now I was really getting confused. Call aircraft spruce....they > check all kinds of stuff and come back with.....nope, no primers that are > also vapor barriers, they need topcoats. > > SO, those in the know....please tell me. Why should I bother priming the > interior of my aircraft with a substance that doesn't prevent corrosion?? > The primers I've heard most about on this list have only one purpose > according to the people I've spoken to......to give the finish coat a better > surface to bond to. > > Bill > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Emrath" <Emrath(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Engine advice
Date: Mar 25, 2000
I've been watching this development for couple of years. Some of the major magazine publishers have had articles about the Socata development a well as Teledyne's. Teledyne has a prototype on display at Last years SNF. It is a bed mounted engine from all that I can see but I'm not very engine astute. I don't think this engine will be ready by the time I'm needing one, but you never know. Will they sell to us in the experimental world is another issue. One other thing, someone in the past pointed out the fuel filler opening on your wing needs to be bigger for the bigger fueling nozzles or bring a funnel. Marty in Brentwood, RV6A Fuselage bulkheads. ----- Original Message ----- From: marcel de ruiter <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 11:39 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice > > As an alternative : > Has anybody heard of the new Morane/Renault diesel engine ? This engine is > currently undergoing certification trials in France. At present there's only > a 200 HP version, but a 180 is expected this year. > This engine still provides 100% at 12500'(!!!!) at a fuel burn 35% less than > Lycoming. It runs on JET A1. > There are only 1500 parts in the entire engine, compared to over 3000 for > Lycoming. The expected TBO is going to be 3000 (!!!) hours. The engine works > with a "powerlever", it has a C/S, but if you want more power you just shove > the throttle forward and it adjusts the prop automaticly. The engine is > expected to be available as a retro-fit when it's fully certified. > > Marcel de Ruiter > RV4/G-RVMJ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Landing light wiring
Date: Mar 25, 2000
The difference between room temperature (290 Kelvin) and hot filament (2800 K) resistance of tungsten is indeed a factor of about 15 (Ref: Handbook of Materials and Techniques for Vacuum Devices, Kohl). However when I measure my cold total circuit resistance and my steady-state current at full brightness, I find there is only a 20% difference between them. I have allowed a 50% increase in switch capacity to provide a safe margin for operation. Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit Hampshire, IL C38 -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> Date: Friday, March 24, 2000 9:44 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing light wiring > >> >> >>> I'd get a few 30A rated aftermarket driving lamp relays from the auto >>parts >>> store and use them to decouple the high inrush current (much more than >>> continuous) to the lamps from the panel switch. >> >>Has anyone put the current from a landing light circuit on an oscilloscope, >>to actually measure the inrush current? Inrush currents are associated >>with non-resistive loads. Incandescent lights are resistive. The >>capacitance of a landing light circuit certainly can't be enough to make >>much of a spike. What am I missing? >> >>Alex Peterson > >The resistance of the lamp filament increases significantly as it >heats up. So, when it is cold, the current is much higher for a >fraction of a second until the bulb warms up. According to "Electric >Bob", the theoretical inrush current is up to 16 times the current >you have once the bulb is up to temperature. Note that this 16 x >value assumes zero resistance in the rest of the circuit, so the >inrush current would be quite a bit lower in practice. > >Kevin Horton RV-8 (riveting fuselage skins) >Ottawa, Canada >http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: cowling questoin
Hi, RE: RV-6 Old Style Polyester cowling / fiberglass air inlet pieces / engine baffling. Should the baffling be trimmed back to clear the air inlet pieces, or should the air inlet pieces be trimmed back to clear the engine baffling? Thanks, Glenn Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: Landing light wiring
Date: Mar 25, 2000
> > The difference between room temperature (290 Kelvin) and hot filament (2800 > K) resistance of tungsten is indeed a factor of about 15 (Ref: Handbook of > Materials and Techniques for Vacuum Devices, Kohl). However when I measure > my cold total circuit resistance and my steady-state current at full > brightness, I find there is only a 20% difference between them. I have > allowed a 50% increase in switch capacity to provide a safe margin for > operation. Since we seem to have an abundance of electrical wizards, let me ask another dumb question. Scott at Van's says to check and be sure my landing light switch will handle this 20 amp load. The switches that I am using (which are the same as installed on new Citabrias) indicate the following: one side says: 10A 250V AC 15A 125V AC 3/4HP 250V AC the other side says: 1/2HP 125V AC 4.2AL 125V AC Look like it is a C-H switch with the designation 9921 Is this OK for a 20A 12V DC load? Doug Weiler ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Engines
Date: Mar 25, 2000
>> >> 4 place twin retract... RV-82 >> >Your getting close. >Now just extend the cowls a bit for the turbines >and figure out how you are going to pressurize the cabins. Andy and others: In order to comply with all other models Van will offer the RV-82A version. The fuselage will be extended to include a galley kitchen. This should lower the cost of a $100 hamburger flight to about $98.50. Provision will be made for a head with vanity - for those new builders requiring the "big buck" approval from a spouse. Ernest Kells RV-9A - Building Empenage EAA: #430137 Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario Email: ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Landing light wiring
Date: Mar 25, 2000
Lamp resistance revisited: My Q/H lamp measures 0.2 ohms on my old Triplett VOM -- accuracy at that end of log scale is not very good. That would be I =13.8/0.2 = 69A -- ouch! At steady state with power supply right up to lamp, I = 7.8 A, so R = 13.8/7.8 = 1.8 ohm. I believe that my total circuit resistance -- AMP connectors, wire, switch contacts -- is about 1 ohm. Resistance measurements are difficult at this magnitude with my crude technique and instruments. My maximum inrush current would then be I = 13.8/1.2 = 11.5 A. I'm beginning to think I need an industrial strength relay for my lamps! Hmmm. Dennis Persyk -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Persyk <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> Date: Saturday, March 25, 2000 10:33 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing light wiring > >The difference between room temperature (290 Kelvin) and hot filament (2800 >K) resistance of tungsten is indeed a factor of about 15 (Ref: Handbook of >Materials and Techniques for Vacuum Devices, Kohl). However when I measure >my cold total circuit resistance and my steady-state current at full >brightness, I find there is only a 20% difference between them. I have >allowed a 50% increase in switch capacity to provide a safe margin for >operation. >Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit >Hampshire, IL C38 >-----Original Message----- >From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Date: Friday, March 24, 2000 9:44 PM >Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing light wiring > > >> >>> >>> >>>> I'd get a few 30A rated aftermarket driving lamp relays from the auto >>>parts >>>> store and use them to decouple the high inrush current (much more than >>>> continuous) to the lamps from the panel switch. >>> >>>Has anyone put the current from a landing light circuit on an >oscilloscope, >>>to actually measure the inrush current? Inrush currents are associated >>>with non-resistive loads. Incandescent lights are resistive. The >>>capacitance of a landing light circuit certainly can't be enough to make >>>much of a spike. What am I missing? >>> >>>Alex Peterson >> >>The resistance of the lamp filament increases significantly as it >>heats up. So, when it is cold, the current is much higher for a >>fraction of a second until the bulb warms up. According to "Electric >>Bob", the theoretical inrush current is up to 16 times the current >>you have once the bulb is up to temperature. Note that this 16 x >>value assumes zero resistance in the rest of the circuit, so the >>inrush current would be quite a bit lower in practice. >> >>Kevin Horton RV-8 (riveting fuselage skins) >>Ottawa, Canada >>http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Landing light wiring
> >Lamp resistance revisited: >My Q/H lamp measures 0.2 ohms on my old Triplett VOM -- accuracy at that end >of log scale is not very good. That would be I =13.8/0.2 = 69A -- ouch! At >steady state with power supply right up to lamp, I = 7.8 A, so R = 13.8/7.8 >= 1.8 ohm. >I believe that my total circuit resistance -- AMP connectors, wire, switch >contacts -- is about 1 ohm. Resistance measurements are difficult at this >magnitude with my crude technique and instruments. My maximum inrush current >would then be I = 13.8/1.2 = 11.5 A. >I'm beginning to think I need an industrial strength relay for my lamps! >Hmmm. >Dennis Persyk For what it's worth, Bob Nuckolls says not to worry too much about transient overloads up to 50% over the switch rating. The effect will be shortened switch life, but these things are rated for a huge number of cycles. We probably won't put enough cycles on the switch to worry about. Note that this approach only applies to transient overloads such as inrush currents, not steady state overloads. Kevin Horton RV-8 (riveting fuselage skins) Ottawa, Canada http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2000
From: "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: Engines
> Andy and others: > In order to comply with all other models Van will offer the RV-82A version. > The fuselage will be extended to include a galley kitchen. This should lower > the cost of a $100 hamburger flight to about $98.50. Provision will be made > for a head with vanity..... And to all you competitive aerobatic pilots... ...don't let the frying pan hit you on the head when coming out of the back side of a loop. As for me, I'm waitng for the tail dragger vesion. Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: RV8 Tank Observations
Date: Mar 25, 2000
I ended up just letting the ProSeal dry for a couple days on the clecos. Then, flex them a couple times in the pliers and the proseal can be pulled off with your fingers. Larry Bowen RV-8 wings Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris & Kellie > Hand > Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2000 12:47 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 Tank Observations > > [snip] > I also keep an old margarine tub (or glass jar) of MEK on the table that I > drop the clecoes into when I remove them for riveting. Once that > particular > pro-seal session is done, the clecoes are then easily wiped clean > using the > small towel squares. The clecoes come out as clean and > functional as before > you started. > > Chris Hand > RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kbalch1(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 25, 2000
Subject: Tank mounting bolts
Hi Guys, Well, after a couple of marathon building days, I screwed and bolted my right tank to the wing this afternoon. All went well except for the three bolts on the most inboard Z-bracket. These are the ones that go down into platenuts riveted to the spar. These three holes are all just a tiny bit too close to the Z-bracket to turn easily (or even get a socket on them). I managed to turn two with an open-end wrench, a little at a time (they are NEVER coming out...), but I couldn't get one to turn enough to engage the platenut no matter what I did. Considering the difficulties I encountered getting the tank to fit the wing acceptably, it's amazing that this was the only trouble with the mounting! My question (and it may be a better one for Van's, but it's Saturday) is: can I leave that one bolt out? There are, after all, twenty other bolts and 74 screws holding the tank to the wing, plus the angle that'll bolt to the fuselage eventually. Seems plenty sturdy enough to me... Opinions? Regards, Ken Balch Ashland, MA RV-8 #81125 wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Tank mounting bolts
Date: Mar 25, 2000
Try an Allen head bolt. You can get an Allen Wrench with a ball end that might make every thing work out well. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: <Kbalch1(at)aol.com> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2000 4:43 PM Subject: RV-List: Tank mounting bolts > > Hi Guys, > > Well, after a couple of marathon building days, I screwed and bolted my right > tank to the wing this afternoon. All went well except for the three bolts on > the most inboard Z-bracket. These are the ones that go down into platenuts > riveted to the spar. These three holes are all just a tiny bit too close to > the Z-bracket to turn easily (or even get a socket on them). I managed to > turn two with an open-end wrench, a little at a time (they are NEVER coming > out...), but I couldn't get one to turn enough to engage the platenut no > matter what I did. Considering the difficulties I encountered getting the > tank to fit the wing acceptably, it's amazing that this was the only trouble > with the mounting! > > My question (and it may be a better one for Van's, but it's Saturday) is: can > I leave that one bolt out? There are, after all, twenty other bolts and 74 > screws holding the tank to the wing, plus the angle that'll bolt to the > fuselage eventually. Seems plenty sturdy enough to me... > > Opinions? > > Regards, > Ken Balch > Ashland, MA > RV-8 #81125 > wings > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Turn coordinator
Date: Mar 25, 2000
Listers: Anyone have any idea how many amps a 12V turn coordinator draws. Mine does not list any amperage information on the data tag. Thanks, Doug =========== Doug Weiler Hudson, WI 715-386-1239 dougweil(at)pressenter.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lm4(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Landing light wiring
Date: Mar 25, 2000
Doug, Try this. You have two 100 watt lamps and in this installation method I'll say that there will be separate wires to the lamps. First you want to install a wire to the lamp that will handle it's "ampacity". Which brings us to rule # 1. ( The wire size shall be equal to 125 % of the normal load, "OR GREATER". So.-- 100 watts divided by 12.5 Volts = 8 amps. The minimum wire size for 8 amps is awg 16, but that's marginal, and you'd be safer in the long run using awg 14. Now that you know the wire size you can find the breaker/fuse size. And that brings us to rule #2. The breaker/fuse size shall be equal; to 80% of the ampacity of the wire-OR LESS. So.-->.80 times 10 amps ( ampacity of awg 16 wire at 10 ft.) = 8 amps. So for this scenario your lamp draws 100 watts. Your wire is 16 ga. drawing 8 amps. thru 10 ft. And your breaker size is 8 amps. Well ! look at that. The trip current is the same as the load current. Talk about inviting nuisance trips. Let's try 14 ga. wire. 14 ga. will @ 10 ft. will carry 15 amps, so 15 times .8 = 12 amps. Much better. An 8 amp load, a 14 ga. wire and a 12 amp breaker. See how that works ? About the switches. Anything that says AC is usually short lived when DC is used, in my experience. The advice you've been given about relay's is pretty good advice. You can find yourself a pretty good looking set of AC switches if their only going to carry 700 milliamps to a relay coil. When doing it this way there is also the benefit of keeping relatively high currents away from the radios, compass, antennas etc. I hope this helps a little. By the way, while I think I know damned near everything about electricity I would like to point out that electric bob probably knows everything about "aviation" electricity. When I am ready I will be buying his book. I already know that it will save me weight, time and keep vibration down at the very least. I'd suggest you buy one also. Hope this helps. Larry Mac Donald of Is this OK for a 20A 12V DC load? Doug Weiler writes: >Fellow Listers: >Since I am an electrical blockhead, please help me out. I have L and >R 100W Duckworth landing lights in my RV-4. I want to wire these both >through one switch. From what I can determine this equates to about 8 amps each for a total load of 16 amps. Is it correct in using a 20 amp breaker, >through a single switch and two 14 ga wires going out to each light? Thanks, Doug ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2000
From: Ed Hobenshield <edhob(at)kermode.net>
Subject: Re: 0320 B2C Engine
> >Hi all >looking at buying a 0320 B2c engine (600 hours) looked in archive seems >to be OK with rv6 any one know any reason why not to buy. >also assuming it will fit what mount do I need and do vans supply one ? > >Thanks > > >-- >Dave RV6 (about to order finishing kit) > Dave, I have a 320-B2C in my six, no problem. Needs conical mount and i was able to trade the Dyno one back to Vans. The B2C was used in the R-22 Robertson helicopter and the one I got required a few parts in the fuel system as it did not have provisions for a fuel pump. all in all 1200.00$ Can. gave me a new fuel pump, parts in the accessery case to drive it , cam checked, carb checked and cleaned and a fresh paint job. The engine was new 89 and 392 hrs, no problems. total cost - $ 8700.00 before exhaust, starter and alternator. ( canadian ) Wish I could find another! Ed hobenshield Ed Hobenshield edhob(at)kermode.net Kitwanga, BC, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2000
From: David Aronson <daronson(at)cwnet.com>
Subject: Re: 0320 B2C Engine
The information from Van's is that this is a fixed pitch prop and dynafocal 2 mount. The mount comes with the finish kit. Dave Aronson RV4 FWFWD N504RV Ed Hobenshield wrote: > > > > >Hi all > >looking at buying a 0320 B2c engine (600 hours) looked in archive seems > >to be OK with rv6 any one know any reason why not to buy. > >also assuming it will fit what mount do I need and do vans supply one ? > > > >Thanks > > > > > >-- > >Dave RV6 (about to order finishing kit) > > > Dave, > > I have a 320-B2C in my six, no problem. Needs conical mount and i was able > to trade the Dyno one back to Vans. > The B2C was used in the R-22 Robertson helicopter and the one I got > required a few parts in the fuel system as it did not have provisions for a > fuel pump. all in all 1200.00$ Can. gave me a new fuel pump, parts in the > accessery case to drive it , cam checked, carb checked and cleaned and a > fresh paint job. > The engine was new 89 and 392 hrs, no problems. total cost - $ 8700.00 > before exhaust, starter and alternator. ( canadian ) Wish I could find > another! > > Ed hobenshield > > Ed Hobenshield edhob(at)kermode.net > Kitwanga, BC, Canada > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JJACCA(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 25, 2000
Subject: (no subject)
Listers, Wanted a good used RV-4 or RV-6. Reply directly to: John J. Althoff 4250 West 16th St., No. 46 Greeley, CO 80634 3352 970 330 3258 jjacca(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Nielsen" <Mark.Nielsen@fiedler-lp.com>
Subject: Turn coordinator
Date: Mar 25, 2000
> >Anyone have any idea how many amps a 12V turn coordinator draws. Mine does >not list any amperage information on the data tag. > > Doug, I installed an new "import" turn coordinator this week. The test report that came with it indicated 1.2A starting and 0.31A running. Mark Nielsen RV-6; 467 hrs Green Bay, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2000
From: George McNutt <gmcnutt(at)intergate.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Turn coordinator
Doug Weiler wrote: > > > Listers: > > Anyone have any idea how many amps a 12V turn coordinator draws. Mine does > not list any amperage information on the data tag. > Thanks, > Doug The electrical load analsys for my Cessna shows the turn coordinator drawing 0.8 amps. G McNutt Langley B.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Mar 25, 2000
Subject: Two New, Early-Model RV-4 Cowls For Sale...
RV-4 Builders and Flyers, I recently purchased a Constant Speed Prop for my RV-4 project and no longer need my old-style Cowlings. I would like to sell them and have the information below on each and have also included pictures of them. I'm willing to ship them where ever you'd like, but any costs incurred will be your responsibility. I can accept Visa or M/C for a 3% additional charge. Please respond via email to the address below if you have any questions or would like to buy one or both: dralle(at)matronics.com Thank you, Matt Dralle RV-4 Builder, #1763 Circa 1988 RV-4 Cowling ----------------------- - New, Never Used, Van's Finish Kit Issue - Small Intake - Long-style, Requires Prop Extension - O320 Only? - $350 + Shipping + Crating http://www.matronics.com/MattsRV4/MiscPictures/88Cowl1.jpg http://www.matronics.com/MattsRV4/MiscPictures/88Cowl2.jpg http://www.matronics.com/MattsRV4/MiscPictures/88Cowl3.jpg Circa 1993 RV-4 Cowling ----------------------- - New, Never Used, Ordered Direct From Van's - Large Intake - Long-style, Requires Prop Extension - O320 or O360 - $400 + Shipping + Crating http://www.matronics.com/MattsRV4/MiscPictures/93Cowl1.jpg http://www.matronics.com/MattsRV4/MiscPictures/93Cowl2.jpg http://www.matronics.com/MattsRV4/MiscPictures/93Cowl3.jpg -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2000
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Turn coordinator
--- Doug Weiler wrote: > Listers: > > Anyone have any idea how many amps a 12V turn > coordinator draws. Mine does > not list any amperage information on the data tag. > > Thanks, > > Doug > Doug: I hooked one up on the bench to find out. I think it was about 1 amp at 13.8 V. This was 3 years ago and I know I wrote it down so I would not forget but do not know where I wrote it. My compass is mounted in the panel. I wanted to run a test to see how much interference (drift) the electricity (current) from the TC would cause. Less than 3 degrees so I mounted it in the panel. I am not sure if the TC was one amp or if the TC, clock, clock light, and light in the compass all drew 1 amp combined. ==== Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, Flying So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2000
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: 25 hour progress report.
Listers, The 25 hour mark came and went today. At 25.3 hours the cowling came off and I changed the oil and filter. Since the cowl was off and I could not fly I tended to some minor squawks that have surfaced in the first 25 hours. 1. Number two cylinder has always run hotter than the rest. I had originally installed the little blocker plates on the front cylinders. Today I cut most of #2's off. Should know tomorrow if this helps. 2. I installed an aluminum plenum cover instead of using the cowl as the plenum. The two corners in the cover that I thought would crack have indeed cracked. Stop drilled the cracks and plan on making some doublers to stop further cracking. 3. The inside hinge eye at the bottom right cowl broke. Will watch the rest and have no plans on fixing the one missing eye at this time. 4. The "Made in China" Wolftrad brand tach I bought from Van's will be officially retired tomorrow. It started acting up earlier this week so I ordered a new "Made in America" Mitchell tach to replace it. 5. The left AN3-7 bolt on PAX left brake pedal fell out and the pedal is only hanging by the right bolt. I think this happened early on as I had found a loose AN3-7 bolt laying on the floor after the first couple of flights. Never found were it came from and decided it was just a prank from one of my hangar mates. Now I know where it goes. I looked all through my papers for the plane and could not find any warranty information. So I guess I'll just fix the little problems and keep on flying. Gary Zilik - RV6A - N99PZ - 25.3 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2000
From: Ronen Yehiav <yron(at)isdn.net.il>
Subject: Re: 25 hour progress report.
Probably no need to mention this, but - Be careful with loose stuff in the cockpit. I lost a friend, who was one of my students, when a forgotten bolt lodged itself in an F-4 stick mechanism. The sysop ejected OK, the pilot did not have sufficient time... Ronen. -----Original Message----- From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> Date: Sunday, March 26, 2000 9:09 AM Subject: RV-List: 25 hour progress report. | |Listers, | |The 25 hour mark came and went today. At 25.3 hours the cowling came off |and I changed the oil and filter. Since the cowl was off and I could not |fly I tended to some minor squawks that have surfaced in the first 25 |hours. | |1. Number two cylinder has always run hotter than the rest. I had |originally installed the little blocker plates on the front cylinders. |Today I cut most of #2's off. Should know tomorrow if this helps. | |2. I installed an aluminum plenum cover instead of using the cowl as the |plenum. The two corners in the cover that I thought would crack have |indeed cracked. Stop drilled the cracks and plan on making some doublers |to stop further cracking. | |3. The inside hinge eye at the bottom right cowl broke. Will watch the |rest and have no plans on fixing the one missing eye at this time. | |4. The "Made in China" Wolftrad brand tach I bought from Van's will be |officially retired tomorrow. It started acting up earlier this week so I |ordered a new "Made in America" Mitchell tach to replace it. | |5. The left AN3-7 bolt on PAX left brake pedal fell out and the pedal is |only hanging by the right bolt. I think this happened early on as I had |found a loose AN3-7 bolt laying on the floor after the first couple of |flights. Never found were it came from and decided it was just a prank |from one of my hangar mates. Now I know where it goes. | |I looked all through my papers for the plane and could not find any |warranty information. So I guess I'll just fix the little problems and |keep on flying. | |Gary Zilik - RV6A - N99PZ - 25.3 hrs. | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fran Malczynski" <fmalczy(at)ATTGLOBAL.NET>
Subject: WD616 Welding Breaks
Date: Mar 26, 2000
Listers, has anyone else had the problem ofthe welds breaking on the WD616 canopy frame assembly? While in the process of fiting said assembly to my fuselage, I had the WD616B side brace crack and then separate from the WD616A channel assembly. While I'm pondering this, and looking at the assembly from all angles, the WD616F pivot assembly falls off from the WD616D. Obviously I stressed the frame assembly while pushing/pulling/clamping to the fuse. Are these welds structural? The thickness of the welds joining these pieces together seems thin compared to the pieces joined. Could I repair using a splice plate for the side assembly and AN426ad4-x rivets or perhaps JBWeld if non-structural, or should I get the pieces re-welded? Thanks Fran Malczynski Olcott, NY RV6 (fuse) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2000
Subject: Re: re: Electric aileron trim question
From: Wes Hays <whays(at)juno.com>
Chris, FWIW, I also used the "Hybrid System" described by the Pecks. I am very happy to hear that the system works well, because Bill and Kathy are flying and I am not. Its not really all that difficult to do, but it does take some additional time. I thought it was worth it because I wanted both trim functions on a coolie hat switch on the stick. Wes Hays Rotan, TX RV6A (N844WB reserved) finishing and >experience is showing that it does indeed work liked we hoped it >would. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2000
From: Dave Burton <dburton(at)foxinternet.net>
Subject: Re: Landing light wiring
lm4(at)juno.com wrote: > > Doug, > Try this. You have two 100 watt lamps < post>> A couple of other things to consider. The lamp sockets have been designed to carry a certain current, the lenses a maximum heat and the reflector a specific filament height from the socket for correct focus of the beam of light. While changing the light bulbs from what the manufacturer supplies may seem like a good idea, there were probably reasons why he selected them in the first place. Since there is no difference in cost to him between the 55 and 100 watt lamps, we know it wasn't driven by profit.... I am an expert on illuminators and a total novice on Duckworth's lights, I've stood close to one a couple of times..... It might be a good idea to find out what the lamp socket is rated for. You have gone from 5A to 8.5A (probably OK in my experience, unless the socket was marginal to start with). I would be concerned that the covers can take the additional heat, and that the reflector still casts a "spot" of light in front of the wing. If the filament height has changed significantly it may not... If everybody immediately changes the bulbs to 100 watt lamps and it is known to work fine.....sorry for the bandwidth. In my profession everyone wants to "just put in a brighter bulb" without knowing that it would cause a major problem. Dave Burton 6A wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 26, 2000
Subject: Re: cowling questoin
In a message dated 3/25/00 2:25:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net writes: << Should the baffling be trimmed back to clear the air inlet pieces, or should the air inlet pieces be trimmed back to clear the engine baffling? >> Scott McDaniels addressed this one some time back... Trim the baffles... KB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2000
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)freewwweb.com>
Subject: Re: Tank mounting bolts
Ken, I would suggest that you install a socket head cap screw (aka Allen bolt) in the problem area. These bolts has a smaller round head which you tighten using an Allen wrench. They are great for tight spaces. Charlie Kuss > Well, after a couple of marathon building days, I screwed and bolted my right > tank to the wing this afternoon. All went well except for the three bolts on > the most inboard Z-bracket. These are the ones that go down into platenuts > riveted to the spar. These three holes are all just a tiny bit too close to > the Z-bracket to turn easily (or even get a socket on them). snipped > My question (and it may be a better one for Van's, but it's Saturday) is: can > I leave that one bolt out? There are, after all, twenty other bolts and 74 > screws holding the tank to the wing, plus the angle that'll bolt to the > fuselage eventually. Seems plenty sturdy enough to me... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2000
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)freewwweb.com>
Subject: Re:RV-4 for sale
Sorry to waste the bandwidth. Would the gentleman who advertised his RV-4 on list, please reply to me off list. I forwarded your post to a friend (EAA Chapter member) who accidently deleted it. Anyone else selling an RV is asked to respond off list as well. Charlie Kuss RV-8 Boca Raton, Fl. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark McGee" <riveter(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Need shipping crates
Date: Mar 26, 2000
Listers, I will be moving from eastern New York to Atlanta in May. This involves transporting my RV4 project with completed empennage and wings as well as all fuselage parts. If any of you still have your shipping crates in good shape or are expecting wing or fuselage kits in the next 7 weeks, please let me know. If you are within reasonable driving distance of eastern New York, I will take your crates off your hands. Also, I need temporary hangar space in the Atlanta area for my Piper Colt. If anyone has any leads, please advise me. Mark McGee RV4 Builder South Glens Falls, New York ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Jig height?
Date: Mar 26, 2000
I've done all I can do on the bench, now I have to build the jig. Is there a height that the horizontal should be at? I know on the empennage it really doesn't matter so make it waist high, but the wings are considerable taller when in the jig and I'd rather not use a step ladder all the time.....so what have you guys found to be the best height for the horizontal? Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2000
Subject: RV 9A wing builder
From: Joe L Cabe <jsaecabe(at)juno.com>
The Van web site says the 9 kit has ALL prepunched skins and that no jig is required. How do you support the wing during construction? Joe. (Trying to decide) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LLOYD BENTLEY" <lloydb(at)intekom.co.za>
Subject: another birth
Date: Mar 26, 2000
The second RV4 took to the South African skies for the first time 25 March 00. As usual, the flight was uneventfull. All systems functioned as intended. Performance was as expected. The 150hp powered RV4, fitted with a Pacesetter wood prop. and harmonic damper took two years to build. It is an outstanding example of fine workmanship. This aircraft was built by the owner, Dennis Tavares who now has serious stretch marks on his cheeks. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John B. Holmgreen" <j32619(at)innova.net>
Subject: Fuel Pressure
Date: Mar 26, 2000
Listers, My problem is dropping fuel pressure after the elec. boost pump is turned off until 4 to 5 gallons are burned out of each tank. Indicated fuel pressure slowly drops to zero, especially at high power settings. No roughness or drop in rpm noted and has happened on the last few flights. Turning on the electric boost pump brings it back to 5 psi. Once I have burned the mentioned 4-5 gallons from each tank, my engine driven pump shows 3-5 psi. My first thought was a blocked vent so I blew air through each prior to the last flight and still experienced the same symptoms. Could have gotten fuel in it during the subsequent taxi and takeoff though. I have a O-360, carb fuel delivery, new lyc fuel pump, and RMI uMonitor for pressure indications. Anyone out there with the same problem that sucessfully identified and solved it? Thanks, John Holmgreen -6A Clinton SC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com>
Subject: RV 9A wing builder
Date: Mar 26, 2000
Joe: I received my -9A wing kit on Wednesday. The manual suggests an arrangement similar to other RV's to support the wing during assembly of the skeleton, top skins and leading edges and tanks. All that is required are two 4x4's mounted from floor to ceiling with brackets to support the main spar. No cross member is required. Plumb bobs hung off the spar at the root rib and tip rib are used to insure that the spars have no twist when beginning assembly. The wing can be removed from this holding fixture and laid on a large table for installation of the bottom skins. Chris Heitman RV-9A rear wing spars Dousman WI -----Original Message----- The Van web site says the 9 kit has ALL prepunched skins and that no jig is required. How do you support the wing during construction? Joe. (Trying to decide) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: Landing light wiring
Date: Mar 26, 2000
> > A couple of other things to consider. The lamp sockets have been > designed to carry a certain current, the lenses a maximum heat and the > reflector a specific filament height from the socket for correct focus of the > beam of light. While changing the light bulbs from what the manufacturer > supplies may seem like a good idea, there were probably reasons why he > selected them in the first place. Since there is no difference in cost to > him between the 55 and 100 watt lamps, we know it wasn't driven by profit.... > > I am an expert on illuminators and a total novice on Duckworth's lights, > I've stood close to one a couple of times..... > > It might be a good idea to find out what the lamp socket is rated for. > You have gone from 5A to 8.5A (probably OK in my experience, unless the > socket was marginal to start with). I would be concerned that the covers can > take the additional heat, and that the reflector still casts a "spot" of > light in front of the wing. If the filament height has changed significantly > it may not... > Dave: Good point well taken. Duckworth does indicate that you may use the 100W bulbs if you desire. Doug ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2000
From: "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Pressure
> My problem is dropping fuel pressure after the elec. boost pump is > turned off until 4 to 5 gallons are burned out of each tank. Indicated fuel > pressure slowly drops to zero, especially at high power settings. No > roughness or drop in rpm noted and has happened on the last few flights. > Turning on the electric boost pump brings it back to 5 psi. Once I have > burned the mentioned 4-5 gallons from each tank, my engine driven pump shows > 3-5 psi. > > My first thought was a blocked vent so I blew air through each prior to > the last flight and still experienced the same symptoms. Could have gotten > fuel in it during the subsequent taxi and takeoff though. > John, If you have good indicated pressure from one 1/2 full tank and you then switch to the other full tank, does the indicated pressure then drop, and then come back up when you switch back to the 1/2 full tank? Same results whether you started from the left or right tank as being the full one? If yes, this would seem to eliminate everything forward of the fuel selector valve leaving only the tanks themselves as suspect. I assume your fuel system is per Van's specs and also that this is something new, meaning that something has recently changed. Does your vent line begin at the highest possible point in the tank? (outboard against the top skin?) Can you visually inspect (with mirrors) the open end of the vent line? Have you had much Slosh come loose in the tanks as evidenced by looking into the tank, by taking fuel samples, by cleaning your gascolator screen? On my plane, every once in a while I see a little pinhead sized flake in a sample or during a gascolator inspection. I don't regard this as a problem (yet), but I have heard about quarter and half dollar sized pieces floating around in tanks. These could cause all kinds of blockages, including vent lines, pickup lines, or even the intercompartmental ports that you drilled into the ribs in your tank. Andy Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)micron.net>
Subject: Re: x-c trip
Date: Mar 26, 2000
Thanks Sam, yes I did see your *wonderful* link - that's why we're going through Sedona! Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 7:18 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: x-c trip > > Ed Bundy wrote: > > > > > > My wife and I are going to take a leisurely RV tour of the Western US for > > about a week. Our basic flight plan will be from Boise, ID to Sedona, AZ to > > Kansas City, and back to Boise. > > > > If anyone has any ideas on places that are must-see, must-stay, must-eat, or > > just generally interesting I would love to hear about it. > > > Ed, you may have already seen this link, but just in case you haven't, > here are details about a trip involving three RV's to the great > southwest: > > http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/west_trip.html > > Enjoy the ride! You are going to see some spectacular country. > > Sam Buchanan (already plannin' to go back) > "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal > > ----------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2000
From: Bob Haan <bhaan(at)easystreet.com>
Subject: GPS Garmin 295 Panel Mount?
Anyone mount their Garmin 295 GPS in the instrument Panel with the ability to remove it out through the front of the Panel? If so how? Thanks, Bob Bob Haan http://easystreet.com/~bhaan/ bhaan(at)easystreet.com Portland, OR RV6A 24461 Wiring the panel ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Horizontal stab, how to hold it in jig
Date: Mar 26, 2000
Alright, I'm SURE this is a stupid question, but I put the stab spar in the jig that I built today. Lined everything up nicely and slid the bolts through. Now, it appears this thing can pivot on those bolts pretty easily even if the end two are pretty tight (small bolt, small torque). Is there something I'm missing? Just tighten the bolts up with the level sitting perpendicular to the spar and make it level? Then dance around softly attempting to never bump it? Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 26, 2000
Subject: Re: Lower Rudder Fiberglass Cap Question...
In a message dated 3/23/00 10:10:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, dralle(at)matronics.com writes: << Does anyone make one of these fiberglass caps without that taillight thingy? I would sure like to get one... >> Matt: I'm pretty sure Van's still makes them w/o the thingy. I had one at one time w/o and sent it back to exchange for one with. Harry Crosby -6 working on finish kit and other stuff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MRawls3896(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 26, 2000
Subject: Re: Horizontal stab, how to hold it in jig
Bill, you need to go ahead and construct the stabilizer with the ribs attached. Don't put spar into the jig until you are ready to skin the stabilizer. Then put the bolts into the end ribs were they are shown on the plans. Then line everything up and clamp, bolt the sabilizer down. Make sure everthing is straight and plum before drilling skins to the frame. Hope this helps. Mike Rawls (wings) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Painters in Ca, Az or Tx?
Date: Mar 26, 2000
Greetings folks, I want to paint my RV8 some time this summer or maybe fall. Sure, the bright metal and grey primer looks kinda cool, but the glare off the wing at high noon can REALLY get hot! I bet a guy could roast a weenie from the reflected heat alone during the summer. Anyway, I would like to know of any experiences out there with the painters at the Chino and Corona, California airports that I see advertising on the web and in the aviation periodicals. Also, any reputable painters in the Phoenix, Tucson or western Texas areas? I would like to get this done THIS year so long wait lists just won't work. As time goes by and available funds begin to build (go stock market!), I would be willing to pay a bit more than originally planned for a really nice finish. Reply to me off-list if you would prefer. Thanks, Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2000
From: Gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Tank mounting bolts
Anybody have some 'official' numbers for suitable allen heads ?? Gert Charlie Kuss wrote: > > > Ken, > I would suggest that you install a socket head cap screw (aka Allen bolt) in the > problem area. These bolts has a smaller round head which you tighten using an > Allen wrench. They are great for tight spaces. > Charlie Kuss > Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227, any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JDaniel343(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 26, 2000
Subject: Re: Request
I believe I heard that someone had cut a hole in thier panel the size of the split in the case (the one that runs around the unit) then they opened the unit at this split. Place the front half in the front of the panel and the rear half in the back of the panel and reassembled the unit. John Danielson Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2000
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: another birth
Lloyd, Tell Dennis congratulations. There is nothing like it in the whole world. Gary Zilik RV-6A N99PZ 26.4 hrs and climbing LLOYD BENTLEY wrote: > > The second RV4 took to the South African skies for the first time 25 March > 00. > > > This aircraft was built by the owner, Dennis Tavares who now has serious > stretch marks on his cheeks. > > _ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ferdfly(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 26, 2000
Subject: Re: Painters in Ca, Az or Tx?
In a message dated 3/26/00 6:49:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, akroguy(at)hotmail.com writes: << Anyway, I would like to know of any experiences out there with the painters at the Chino and Corona, California airports that I see advertising on the web and in the aviation periodicals. Also, any reputable painters in the Phoenix, Tucson or western Texas areas? I would like to get this done THIS year so long wait lists just won't work. As time goes by and available funds begin to build (go stock market!), I would be willing to pay a bit more than originally planned for a really nice finish. Reply to me off-list if you would prefer. Thanks, >> Brian,I had my RV-4 painted at Cable airport (CCB). They did a great job, It was on the cover of Pacific Flyer. CCB is near Chino ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Tank mounting bolts
Date: Mar 26, 2000
Where can I find such bolts? Do they have the same structural qualities as the AN3-3A originally specified? Larry Bowen RV-8 wings Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cy Galley > Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2000 6:36 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Tank mounting bolts > > > Try an Allen head bolt. You can get an Allen Wrench with a ball end that > might make every thing work out well. > > Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! > (Click here to visit our Club site at > http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Kbalch1(at)aol.com> > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2000 4:43 PM > Subject: RV-List: Tank mounting bolts > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > Well, after a couple of marathon building days, I screwed and bolted my > right > > tank to the wing this afternoon. All went well except for the > three bolts > on > > the most inboard Z-bracket. These are the ones that go down into > platenuts > > riveted to the spar. These three holes are all just a tiny bit > too close > to > > the Z-bracket to turn easily (or even get a socket on them). I > managed to > > turn two with an open-end wrench, a little at a time (they are NEVER > coming > > out...), but I couldn't get one to turn enough to engage the platenut no > > matter what I did. Considering the difficulties I encountered > getting the > > tank to fit the wing acceptably, it's amazing that this was the only > trouble > > with the mounting! > > > > My question (and it may be a better one for Van's, but it's > Saturday) is: > can > > I leave that one bolt out? There are, after all, twenty other bolts and > 74 > > screws holding the tank to the wing, plus the angle that'll bolt to the > > fuselage eventually. Seems plenty sturdy enough to me... > > > > Opinions? > > > > Regards, > > Ken Balch > > Ashland, MA > > RV-8 #81125 > > wings > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Mack" <don(at)dmack.net>
Subject: Re: Horizontal stab, how to hold it in jig
Date: Mar 26, 2000
Run a vertical piece at the center point of the horizontal stab and attach to that. See page on my web site http://www.dmack.net/rv6a/horz_stab_in_jig.html for a picture. Don Mack RV-6A Finishing kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 6:48 PM Subject: RV-List: Horizontal stab, how to hold it in jig > > Alright, I'm SURE this is a stupid question, but I put the stab spar in the > jig that I built today. Lined everything up nicely and slid the bolts > through. Now, it appears this thing can pivot on those bolts pretty easily > even if the end two are pretty tight (small bolt, small torque). Is there > something I'm missing? Just tighten the bolts up with the level sitting > perpendicular to the spar and make it level? Then dance around softly > attempting to never bump it? > > Bill > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2000
From: George True <true(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Take that NB off my mailing label
Listers, Well, I guess Van's will have to take the "NB" off the mailing label of my RVator's. I am now the new official owner of RV-8 kit #80245. I bought it from Brian Halkett of Sacramento, CA. I got a morning flight out of Phoenix yesterday, and was met at the airport by Brian. I picked up the Ryder truck I had reserved, and we loaded everything up. I got on the road late yesterday afternoon, and rolled into Phoenix about noon today. What I got was the partially completed wing kit, and an unstarted fuselage kit. Brian had already sold the completed empennage to someone else when I first talked to him, so I will be ordering another one from Van's. But I got both the wing and fuselage kit for about half what it would cost from Van's, so I think I did okay. The left wing is about 50% finished, the right one is about 10-15% finished. Both ailerons are built, and both flaps have been partially built. The left tank is all fitted up, dimpled, and clecoed together. The workmanship on everything appears to be excellent. Quality-wise, it looks as good as the Quickbuild kits I have seen. I will be hard-pressed to match the quality of his work. It is probably going to take me several weeks to inventory everything, read and study the plans and drawings, and get set up to work on it. I have no doubt there are going to be many times when I will be frustrated with this project and ready to just put my head in a vise. But tonight as I sit here typing this, I am a happy camper. It feels good to finally be one of you guys. George True RV-8 #80245, unpacking stuff... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Peck" <dpeck(at)ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Fluctuating airspeed & altitude - fixed
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Thank to those listers that gave us some ideas, you guys are great. Graham has been doing some troubleshooting and has found the problem was caused by vibration of the instrument panel. He firstly T'd in another airspeed indicator and had it out of the instrument panel and the indication was steady, so he then placed it in the instrument panel and the indication was the same as the origional. When the instrument panel was touched it caused the fluctuations to decrease. His flight instruments are on a seperate sub panel which is shock mounted by rubber grommets, he is now going to get his prop balanced ( though it felt smooth to me ) and invest in some better shock mounts. 5.1 hours on the hourmeter Thanks again David Peck ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TColeE(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: Re: Take that NB off my mailing label
George; CONGRATULATIONS, you will be having fun for the next year and half or so. Then you will be having LOTS of fun for many years. I have a question for you? Are you really building an airplane in you garage? Terry E.Cole N468TC flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tommy Walker" <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: RV-6A Floor support brackets
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Plan sheet # 46 shows how to fab the F-699 support brackets for the two outside floor stiffner angles. Question is how are the two inner floor stiffner angles attached and supported? I'm guessing you use something similar to the F-699's but can't find anything on the plans that shows "what or how". I welcome any advise from those of you who have "been there, done that". Tommy 6A fuselage Ridgetop, TN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-6A Floor support brackets
From: "Denis Walsh" <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net>
The center ones can be captured by the base of the pedestll which holds the fuel selector, and attaches to the center brace which has the throttle, mix, and trimetc on it. I used the same bolt pattern as the outboard ones. -- Denis L.(Bum) Walsh ---------- >From: "Tommy Walker" <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com> >To: "RV-List" >Subject: RV-List: RV-6A Floor support brackets >Date: Mon, Mar 27, 2000, 6:47 > > >Plan sheet # 46 shows how to fab the F-699 support brackets for the two >outside floor stiffner angles. Question is how are the two inner floor >stiffner angles attached and supported? I'm guessing you use something >similar to the F-699's but can't find anything on the plans that shows "what >or how". I welcome any advise from those of you who have "been there, done >that". > >Tommy >6A fuselage >Ridgetop, TN > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dgmurray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: RV-6A Floor support brackets
Date: Mar 27, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tommy Walker" <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 6:47 AM Subject: RV-List: RV-6A Floor support brackets > > Plan sheet # 46 shows how to fab the F-699 support brackets for the two > outside floor stiffner angles. Question is how are the two inner floor > stiffner angles attached and supported? I'm guessing you use something > similar to the F-699's but can't find anything on the plans that shows "what > or how". I welcome any advise from those of you who have "been there, done > that". > > Tommy > 6A fuselage > Ridgetop, TN Tommy - The inner floor stiffeners are supported at the aft end by the vertical fuel tank selector switch brackets. You are correct on that the plans are a bit short on this area, but basicly the two brackets get bolted with AN3 bolts at the bottom onto the floor stiffeners and riveted at the top to the fuel selector mounting plate. The aft flanges of the side mounting brackets get bolted to the spar. The fuel switch mounting plate on top of this arrangement gets held to the bulkhead (through the forward seat pans) with a couple machine screws and if you are using the vertical brace that holds the throttle/ mixture controls, there will be a couple machine screw/ nut plate assemblies on the front of the fuel switch mounting plate also. This assembly is shown on the plans on page 32 in the upper left corner in Section E-E and also on the same page in the lower center of the page. On page 49 in the lower left corner in Section A-A you can see more of this assembly. Further you can see more of the brackets for the stiffeners on page 46 in the upper left corner in Section E-E, and on page 47 in the lower center part of the page all the brackets are shown. I hope this helps. ----------------------------------------------------- Doug Murray RV-6 C-GRPA Southern Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2000
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:23:36 -0600
The MS number is MS20003 for a number 10 then a dash in 1/16s for the grip length. MS20003-4 would have grip length of 1/4" Ms20004-4 is the same except it is 1/4 diameter. Since you are clamping Aluminum. a steel bolt is overkill. Your hardware store would have Allen headed cap screws of the proper diameter and length that will do the job. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6160hp(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: Engine oil analysis explaination
Could a lister, knowledgeable of oil spectrum analysis email me at: demcmanmon(at)syrplas.com I'll like to email you my analysis of used engine's 1st oil change and have your intrepretation of what the abreviations and all mean. Thanks Dave McManmon Cicero NY N58DM RV6 26+ hours 0320H2AD 1525+ TT engine ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: Re: Engine advice
Give me a day or so......there burried somewhere in the shop,den or bathroom....... yron(at)isdn.net.il on 03/23/2000 06:22:26 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice I have no access to that publication, Will I be imposing too much of you if I ask for these URLs? Thanks in advance. Ronen. -----Original Message----- From: pcondon(at)csc.com <pcondon(at)csc.com> Date: Friday, March 24, 2000 12:11 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice | | |April 2000's Aviation Maintenance monthly news letter has a article on this |engine & others in development. There are URL's for web access mentioned also. | | |yron(at)isdn.net.il on 03/23/2000 02:17:22 PM | |Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com | |To: rv-list(at)matronics.com | |Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice | | | |Where would you think one can get more info on this engine? |Seems they saw my wish list... |Ronen. |-----Original Message----- |From: marcel de ruiter <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> |To: rv-list(at)matronics.com |Date: Thursday, March 23, 2000 8:34 PM |Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice | | | || ||As an alternative : ||Has anybody heard of the new Morane/Renault diesel engine ? |This engine is ||currently undergoing certification trials in France. At present |there's only ||a 200 HP version, but a 180 is expected this year. ||This engine still provides 100% at 12500'(!!!!) at a fuel burn |35% less than ||Lycoming. It runs on JET A1. ||There are only 1500 parts in the entire engine, compared to |over 3000 for ||Lycoming. The expected TBO is going to be 3000 (!!!) hours. The |engine works ||with a "powerlever", it has a C/S, but if you want more power |you just shove ||the throttle forward and it adjusts the prop automaticly. The |engine is ||expected to be available as a retro-fit when it's fully |certified. || ||Marcel de Ruiter ||RV4/G-RVMJ || || || || || | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: Re: 0320 B2C Engine
I'm using that one now. It has Shower-O-Sparks ignition.......very good system. Mooney uses the SOS ( pun not intended) on its aircraft. The carb casting (sump) has a rear mounted location.....no problem for me with a tail Dragger. Its a conical mount...no big rub here....the rubbers cost 25$ total instead of 300.00 for the dynafocal rubbers. Go for it if the numbers work out. My personal opinion ( everyone has one) is if I trip over a engine that works, price ok, history ok,( yada-yada)...grab it because when you finally get to specifically go to get something(engine) there seem to be none around....ALSO, the Vettermans (SS exhaust) fit like a glove (not OJ's) that to say the Vettermans fit perfectly.\ central-data@central-data.demon.co.uk on 03/24/2000 01:38:49 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: 0320 B2C Engine Hi all looking at buying a 0320 B2c engine (600 hours) looked in archive seems to be OK with rv6 any one know any reason why not to buy. also assuming it will fit what mount do I need and do vans supply one ? Thanks -- Dave RV6 (about to order finishing kit) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: RV-6A Floor support brackets
From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
Drw 47 ( f683B's) that hold up the fuel valve does the same for the inboards. Drwg 32 shows the side view. I have stored the 683B's until the wings are on. Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com ********************************************************************** writes: > > > Plan sheet # 46 shows how to fab the F-699 support brackets for the > two > outside floor stiffner angles. Question is how are the two inner > floor > stiffner angles attached and supported? I'm guessing you use > something > similar to the F-699's but can't find anything on the plans that > shows "what > or how". I welcome any advise from those of you who have "been > there, done > that". > > Tommy > 6A fuselage > Ridgetop, TN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Chasnoff" <DChasnoff(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:23:36 -0600
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Even in low torque applications I have seen the heads pop off no name socket head cap screws. I recommend UNBRAKO sps brand available from MSC in the yeller pages). Fully traceable batches and though a bit more expensive you know what your getting. Well worth it. David Chasnoff -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cy Galley Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 9:42 AM Subject: RV-List: Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:23:36 -0600 The MS number is MS20003 for a number 10 then a dash in 1/16s for the grip length. MS20003-4 would have grip length of 1/4" Ms20004-4 is the same except it is 1/4 diameter. Since you are clamping Aluminum. a steel bolt is overkill. Your hardware store would have Allen headed cap screws of the proper diameter and length that will do the job. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Engine oil analysis explaination
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Dave, A single analysis is of little value unless the lab has flagged some element as being way out of line in quantity. Each lab has a different instrument (an AA -- atomic absorption spectrometer) and sample preparation technique so that quantitative values of mass/oil-volume are not of great value by themselves. Your sample technique can be quite different than that on another user, further coloring the results. I think the best interpretation of the analysis it that furnished by the lab. I've used AOA for the last 20 years for my 2600 hour O320E2D on my Skyhawk and I find their interpretation of the results to be excellent. I graph the critical elements in a spreadsheet and use the trend to determine when I'll need an overhaul. I'm not there yet. My suggestions: 1) Follow the advice of the lab -- they know best after analyzing (hopefully!) tens of thousands of oil samples. 2) Get a series of analyses to establish a baseline. 3) Use a consistent sampling technique as spelled out by your lab. Your own lab technique is important too! Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit Hampshire, IL C38 -----Original Message----- From: RV6160hp(at)aol.com <RV6160hp(at)aol.com> Date: Monday, March 27, 2000 8:50 AM Subject: RV-List: Engine oil analysis explaination > >Could a lister, knowledgeable of oil spectrum analysis email me at: > >demcmanmon(at)syrplas.com > >I'll like to email you my analysis of used engine's 1st oil change and have your intrepretation of what the abreviations and all mean. > >Thanks >Dave McManmon >Cicero NY >N58DM RV6 26+ hours >0320H2AD 1525+ TT engine > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: Re: GPS Garmin 295 Panel Mount?
Yep, I did......Used a RAM Mount system and it looks real trick. The RAM mounts allow for a tilt to allow best viewing angle & defeat any sun glare for any given moment. RAM has a nice web page & i think there in the Yeller pages. This is the best 1450.00$ I spent so far in the project......Also I figured if I cobbled up the dash to custom fit a 295...then I locked myself into that custom configuration. The RAM is a universal and & can change to any form..... bhaan(at)easystreet.com on 03/26/2000 06:10:20 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: GPS Garmin 295 Panel Mount? Anyone mount their Garmin 295 GPS in the instrument Panel with the ability to remove it out through the front of the Panel? If so how? Thanks, Bob Bob Haan http://easystreet.com/~bhaan/ bhaan(at)easystreet.com Portland, OR RV6A 24461 Wiring the panel ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Elevator trim indicator
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Could someone give me the panel space required for the elevator electric trim indicator and it's overall dimensions. Thanks Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay B.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
(Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id for" ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:57:17.-0500(at)matronics.com
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: Re: Engine oil analysis explaination
"Dennis Persyk" on 03/27/2000 11:07:20 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine oil analysis explaination Hi Dennis, this is good stuff. Could you please elaborate on your statement below? What elements do you track and how. Do you just enter each tracked element into a seperate sheet and graph? Where do you get each tolerance spec? Thanks in advance Eric Henson >>> I graph the critical elements in a spreadsheet and use the trend to determine when I'll need an overhaul. I'm not there yet. Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit Hampshire, IL C38 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: Re: Lower Rudder Fiberglass Cap Question...
Is the dremmel cut-off disk a real cut-off disk and not those crappy paper thin stone disks???. The cutoff disk is fiberglass impregnated (you can see the F/G weave in the disk) and about the diameter of a 50 cent piece.......I had even beter lick with the Black-N-Decker cutoff disks,,,there cheeper and I get them a wal-mart. BTW I can cut that F/G like butter with my dremel......... dralle(at)matronics.com on 03/24/2000 12:37:28 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Lower Rudder Fiberglass Cap Question... Hi Listers, My RV-4's Tail Kit came with one of those lower fiberglass rudder caps that has the pre-molded 'thingy' for the white tail light. Since I won't need a light here, I tried a few things to make it go away, but me and the Dremel cutoff wheel tool weren't getting along. I can't really think of a way of making this one look good short of doing a bunch of glass work to it. Ack. Does anyone make one of these fiberglass caps without that taillight thingy? I would sure like to get one... Thanks for any information you might have, Matt Dralle RV-4 Builder, #1763, N442RV to be... -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DWENSING(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: Re: Elevator trim indicator
In a message dated 3/27/00 10:48:11 AM Central Standard Time, ebowhay(at)jetstream.net writes: << Could someone give me the panel space required for the elevator electric trim indicator and it's overall dimensions. >> The dimensions for the MAC trim indicator is 1 in. x 1.75 in. x 2.5 in. deep. Requires a slightly smaller hole in the panel. Uses a "C" retainer on the back side of the panel. Dale Ensing 6A finishing forever ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2000
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: Elevator trim indicator
Could someone give me the panel space required for the elevator electric trim indicator and it's overall dimensions. Thanks Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay B.C. Hi Eustace, If your talking about the MAC incicator, the face dim is 1.00" x 1.75" and the body dim is .85" x 1.60". The cut out in the panel would be just a bit larger than the body dim. I don't have the depth measurement handy but it was about 1.25 to 1.5" deep. Laird RV-6 22923 SoCal Finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2000
From: Ronen Yehiav <yron(at)isdn.net.il>
Subject: Re: Engine advice
Thank you! I'll be holding my breath... Ronen. -----Original Message----- From: pcondon(at)csc.com <pcondon(at)csc.com> Date: Monday, March 27, 2000 5:38 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice | | |Give me a day or so......there burried somewhere in the shop,den or |bathroom....... | | |yron(at)isdn.net.il on 03/23/2000 06:22:26 PM | |Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com | |To: rv-list(at)matronics.com | |Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice | | | |I have no access to that publication, |Will I be imposing too much of you if I ask for these URLs? |Thanks in advance. Ronen. |-----Original Message----- |From: pcondon(at)csc.com <pcondon(at)csc.com> |To: rv-list(at)matronics.com |Date: Friday, March 24, 2000 12:11 AM |Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice | | || || ||April 2000's Aviation Maintenance monthly news letter has a |article on this ||engine & others in development. There are URL's for web access |mentioned also. || || ||yron(at)isdn.net.il on 03/23/2000 02:17:22 PM || ||Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com || ||To: rv-list(at)matronics.com || ||Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice || || || ||Where would you think one can get more info on this engine? ||Seems they saw my wish list... ||Ronen. ||-----Original Message----- ||From: marcel de ruiter <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> ||To: rv-list(at)matronics.com ||Date: Thursday, March 23, 2000 8:34 PM ||Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine advice || || || ||| |||As an alternative : |||Has anybody heard of the new Morane/Renault diesel engine ? ||This engine is |||currently undergoing certification trials in France. At |present ||there's only |||a 200 HP version, but a 180 is expected this year. |||This engine still provides 100% at 12500'(!!!!) at a fuel burn ||35% less than |||Lycoming. It runs on JET A1. |||There are only 1500 parts in the entire engine, compared to ||over 3000 for |||Lycoming. The expected TBO is going to be 3000 (!!!) hours. |The ||engine works |||with a "powerlever", it has a C/S, but if you want more power ||you just shove |||the throttle forward and it adjusts the prop automaticly. The ||engine is |||expected to be available as a retro-fit when it's fully ||certified. ||| |||Marcel de Ruiter |||RV4/G-RVMJ ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| || || || || || | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Carter" <rv8abuild(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator trim indicator
Date: Mar 27, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: Eustace Bowhay <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 10:45 AM Subject: RV-List: Elevator trim indicator > > Could someone give me the panel space required for the elevator electric > trim indicator and it's overall dimensions. > > Thanks > > Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay B.C. Eustace, Depends on if you want the LED (which is what comes with the MAC kit from Vans) or Analog. The dimensions as listed in the installation instructions for the cutout are for the LED .660 X 1.160 inches. For the analog (needle type) indicator it's .850 X 1.160. It comes with a rocker switch, and the cutout dimension for this is .900 X 1.160. Hope this helps, Jerry Carter RV-8A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Carter" <rv8abuild(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator trim indicator
Date: Mar 27, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: Eustace Bowhay <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 10:45 AM Subject: RV-List: Elevator trim indicator > > Could someone give me the panel space required for the elevator electric > trim indicator and it's overall dimensions. > > Thanks > > Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay B.C. Eustace, Depends on if you want the LED (which is what comes with the MAC kit from Vans) or Analog. The dimensions as listed in the installation instructions for the cutout are for the LED .660 X 1.160 inches. For the analog (needle type) indicator it's .850 X 1.160. It comes with a rocker switch, and the cutout dimension for this is .900 X 1.160. Hope this helps, Jerry Carter RV-8A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator trim indicator
Date: Mar 27, 2000
> > Could someone give me the panel space required for the elevator electric > trim indicator and it's overall dimensions. > Eustace If it is the MAC trim indicator, their flyer says "... it can be installed horizontally or vertically.... It's faceplate measures 1.75" x .75" and is 1.1" in depth." The cutout would be smaller, but those dimensions are not given in the flyer. Their phone # is (760) 598-0592. Terry Watson RV-8A ailerons Seattle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator trim indicator
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Addition/correction to my previous message about the MAC trim position indicator: The cutout size is 1.160 x .660, inches I would assume. Terry Watson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Carter" <rv8abuild(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator trim indicator
Date: Mar 27, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: <DWENSING(at)aol.com> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 11:31 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator trim indicator > > In a message dated 3/27/00 10:48:11 AM Central Standard Time, > ebowhay(at)jetstream.net writes: > > << Could someone give me the panel space required for the elevator electric > trim indicator and it's overall dimensions. > >> > The dimensions for the MAC trim indicator is 1 in. x 1.75 in. x 2.5 in. deep. That must be the analog. I've got the LED indicator in my hand, and it's .75 X 1.75 X 1.15 in. deep. The cutout size I took from the MAC installation instructions and posted in the previous message. Jerry Carter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: Re: Lower Rudder Fiberglass Cap Question...
I cut my casting piece off ( about the size of a large ping-pong ball--cut on half) and glassed the void over. Took very little time. I didn't want the hassle to find a box, arrange shipping, ship it, order a new one, wait...............so I just F/G it. dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net on 03/24/2000 02:08:21 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Lower Rudder Fiberglass Cap Question... Subject: RV-List: Lower Rudder Fiberglass Cap Question... > > Hi Listers, > > My RV-4's Tail Kit came with one of those lower fiberglass rudder caps > that has the pre-molded 'thingy' for the white tail light. Since I > won't need a light here, I tried a few things to make it go away, but me > and the Dremel cutoff wheel tool weren't getting along. I can't really > think of a way of making this one look good short of doing a bunch of > glass work to it. Ack. > > Does anyone make one of these fiberglass caps without that taillight > thingy? I would sure like to get one... > > Thanks for any information you might have, > > Matt Dralle > RV-4 Builder, #1763, N442RV to be... Try Vans Aircraft. They have them in the catalog ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: another birth
Date: Mar 27, 2000
LLOYD, Please pass on to Dennis our CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A (baffles about 1/2 done) Niantic, CT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: Grass strips...
Hay all you RVers out there, I just got a great deal on a hanger ( in Austin they are in VERY short supply ) on a grass strip. Can anyone tell me how the RVs hold up to grass. I keep hearing stories about 6As with broken gear attach points on the nose wheel and such. Before I vibrate my airframe into little tiny pieces it would be nice to hear how these planes hold up to all those bumps. This is especially a concern on the 8A since it has such inflexible gear legs ( all the vibrations will be transferred directly to the mount points ). Many thanks in advance for your input, - Jim Andrews RV-8AQ Fuse interrior paint... N89JA (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pete & Delee Bodie" <pjbodie(at)home.com>
Subject: Canopy fairing
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Has anybody found a source for the fairing needed on rear of the sliding canopy to connect the rear skirts and contoured to allow for the sliding rail? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: Re: Grass strips...
I purchaced a lawn roller( big one ) 2 foot, 6 foot long from the farm supply store & hitch it behind my car. I roll the ground 3 or 4 times a season about 12 to 18 hrs after rain. The grass runway is glass smooth. Just a option since hangers in general are very hard to find, & this solution might work for you. Takes 10 to 12 minutes to roll the entire grass playground & sorta damp soil will make it very easy. Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com on 03/27/2000 04:16:00 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Grass strips... Hay all you RVers out there, I just got a great deal on a hanger ( in Austin they are in VERY short supply ) on a grass strip. Can anyone tell me how the RVs hold up to grass. I keep hearing stories about 6As with broken gear attach points on the nose wheel and such. Before I vibrate my airframe into little tiny pieces it would be nice to hear how these planes hold up to all those bumps. This is especially a concern on the 8A since it has such inflexible gear legs ( all the vibrations will be transferred directly to the mount points ). Many thanks in advance for your input, - Jim Andrews RV-8AQ Fuse interrior paint... N89JA (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2000
From: Chris Browne <cebrowne(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Fresh Air Hood System
The S-W Jet-Glo paint I am using contains isocyanates. It is nasty stuff and a conventional cartridge type respirator is not recommended for a variety of reasons. Anyway, I was looking at fresh air systems which run between $399 - $1200, including an air pump. Two questions: (1) Does anyone know, of have enough experience, to tell me some brands I can compare? (2) Can I buy just a hood and hose for $60 and use my oil-less compressor as the air supply so long as it is in a clean environment? I can't see how the compressor could introduce any nasty contaminates. Chris Browne -6A finish Atlanta ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: Re: Grass strips...
Agree that rolling helps quite a bit.. the roller I use is 30" x 8 ft, and weighs plenty when full of water. Pulled behind my tractor, it is a 90 minute job to roll all the runway (50x2100). Done too soon after a rain, it can actually lift the sod and roll it up onto the roller like green felt! Use caution. (Mature stands of grass probably won't do this, but freshly seeded, newly-sprouted areas will!) As for turf handling, the -6A takes well to grass strips if they are sufficiently smooth. If not, it will porpoise during the high-speed portion of the roll-out when properly excited by bumps. Slow landing speed (full-stall) is critical to avoiding this. What I find myself wondering is how well the new 2-piece wheel pants would hold up to the abuse if I changed over to them. I am considering it, to gain the 6 mph cruise. Bill Boyd Hop Along Airstrip (12VA) RV-6A - 96 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ENewton57(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: Re: RV List Courtesy
I posted the Vor vs GPS question because I am buying the instruments and will soon be laying out the instrument panel for my RV-6a. Isn't it pertainant to what I am doing? Is it inappropriate to ask questions about various options that can be installed in our RV's and what works for the more experienced ones? Do you also feel that the questions regarding Navaid, Fuel senders, Primers, Landing Lights and other choices or options to be used should not be discussed? I appreciate getting this advise for the ones with far more experience than myself. If I got the wrong idea about the intent of the list and I apologize and will keep my questions to myself. Eric Newton ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Matronics Fuel Scan
Date: Mar 27, 2000
I am considering adding a Matronics Fuel Scan LT to my Rv6A...have never used one, and would appreciate comments about its utility, value vs costs, installation difficulty, etc. (No, Matt, you don't have to respond!) RV6A Flying Salida, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: fritzt(at)bellsouth.net
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: Re: Grass strips...
I hang out on a grass strip and we have several RV's that operate. The runway is well maintained and rolled regularly. No problems. Fritz Tegeler Wilga PZL-35A N213e Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com wrote: > > Hay all you RVers out there, I just got a great deal on a hanger ( in Austin > they are in VERY short supply ) on a grass strip. > > Can anyone tell me how the RVs hold up to grass. I keep hearing stories about > 6As with broken gear attach points on the nose wheel and such. Before I vibrate > my airframe into little tiny pieces it would be nice to hear how these planes > hold up to all those bumps. This is especially a concern on the 8A since it has > such inflexible gear legs ( all the vibrations will be transferred directly to > the mount points ). > > Many thanks in advance for your input, > > - Jim Andrews > RV-8AQ Fuse interrior paint... > N89JA (reserved) > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: Engine oil analysis explaination
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Post the results here if you like and we can all discuss them, or email them to me and we can talk off-list. I think I can help you. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com www.petroblend.com/dougr > > Could a lister, knowledgeable of oil spectrum analysis email me at: > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Horizontal stab, how to hold it in jig
Date: Mar 28, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Shook <billshook(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 1:48 AM Subject: RV-List: Horizontal stab, how to hold it in jig > > Alright, I'm SURE this is a stupid question, but I put the stab spar in the > jig that I built today. You'll have to built th whole skeleton; both spars and all ribs fitted before you mount it in the jig. Study the entire section of the h-stab several times and try to picture how things fit together, this will stop you from making mistakes. I usually read the section I'm working on again after I've been out of the workshop. I found the suggestion in the manual worked fine for mounting the skeleton in the jig. Best wishes, Marcel de Ruiter RV4/G-RVMJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Hs406's to hs-403 on RV-4
Date: Mar 27, 2000
I am putting the HS-406's on the rear spar. The manual says to clamp them in place, and check the distance between them before drilling and clecos. I'm staring at the plans and don't see a dimension for the distance between these. Is there something I'm missing? Bill Rv-4 newbie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: Re: RV 9A wing builder
From: Joe L Cabe <jsaecabe(at)juno.com>
Chris, Thanks for the response. I was looking at a 6 but the idea of all prepunched skins and a lot of the ribs and bulkheads has me thinking about a 9. Not having to drill and measure should save a year or two. If you have a minute let me know how it went with the tail? Thanks, Joe. Are you going to S-N-F? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: Fresh Air Hood System
Date: Mar 27, 2000
> (1) Does anyone know, of have enough experience, to tell me some brands > I can compare? Chris, I bought a Hobbyair full face system. I paid about $450 for it from autobodystore.com and am very happy with it. One suggestion, get some dryer hose to enable you to route the air intake to somewhere with fresh air. With the standard 40' hose that can put the compressor still within fumes way. Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500, interior already painted www.pacifier.com/~randyl ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2000
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Fresh Air Hood System
Chris Browne wrote: > > > The S-W Jet-Glo paint I am using contains isocyanates. It is nasty > stuff and a conventional cartridge type respirator is not recommended > for a variety of reasons. Anyway, I was looking at fresh air systems > which run between $399 - $1200, including an air pump. > > Two questions: > > (1) Does anyone know, of have enough experience, to tell me some brands > I can compare? > > (2) Can I buy just a hood and hose for $60 and use my oil-less > compressor as the air supply so long as it is in a clean environment? I > can't see how the compressor could introduce any nasty contaminates. Option #2 is the onee I uused. As fer as I caon tel, it worced just fihne.... Saam Buuchanannnn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jrdial <jrdial@hal-pc.org>
Subject: HANGER AUSTIN, TX
Date: Mar 27, 2000
I have a new hanger in Spicewood, TX (88R) that I would like to rent for RVs. I am building an RV6 and another fellow is going to rent space for an RV he is buying. This airport is 25 miles west of Austin. My goal is to rent to RVs only and to not over crowd the hanger. If interested contact me off list. Thanks Dick Dial ( jrdial@hal-pc.org ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: B&C 60 Amp Alternator...
Hi Listers, Looking back over the archives I found some comments both pro and con for the B&C L60 Alternator and wanted to share my first impressions of the unit. In a word this is a beautiful piece of work. I ordered the L60 model in the "Boss Mount" configuration and it mated up perfectly with the Van's Lycoming O360A1A. The supplied Gates XL belt also fit perfectly. Alignment of the boss mount and supplied screws was right on the money as was the adjustment bracket arm. The unit is very compact and I'm confident it will fit nicely under the cowling. Anyway, I don't mean to go on, but this is a excellent quality unit and, at least at this point, I would highly recommend it. Here are some pictures of the unit, supplied accessories, and installation on the O360A1A: http://www.matronics.com/MattsRV4/MiscPictures/BnCAlt1.jpg http://www.matronics.com/MattsRV4/MiscPictures/BnCAlt2.jpg http://www.matronics.com/MattsRV4/MiscPictures/BnCAlt3.jpg http://www.matronics.com/MattsRV4/MiscPictures/BnCAlt4.jpg Best regards, Matt Dralle RV-4 #1763 -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: CHT & EGT Probe Placement
Date: Mar 27, 2000
> I am installing a single channel EI CHT & EGT unit in my 8A. I gather from > the archives that the hottest cylinder is either #3 or #4. I have a > IO-360A1A with the oil cooler installed behind # 4. I am inclined to assume > that # 4 will be running the hottest both in CHT & EGT. Any comments out > there. I think its difficult to predict which one will be hottest. There are just too many variables with these beasts. I have a 4 cyl. EGT/CHT on my RV-6 (O-360A1A, C/S prop). The hottest EGT is #2, hottest CHT is #3. Hottest/coolest EGT doesn't track with CHT. Sorry if that doesn't help much but its a data point anyway. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~75 hrs) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Curley" <mcurley(at)cass.net>
Subject: Re: Fresh Air Hood System
Date: Mar 27, 2000
> (2) Can I buy just a hood and hose for $60 and use my oil-less > compressor as the air supply so long as it is in a clean environment? I > can't see how the compressor could introduce any nasty contaminates. > You can do this - be sure to locate compressor out of fumes way (not near the idling auto exhaust) and use a filter between the compressor and hood. The one I've used is made especially for this purpose. I believe something like the filters for paint spray air line would work well also. Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: MB Antenna Location
Date: Mar 27, 2000
> I have installed the strobe power supply under the baggage floor. I would > like to mount the marker beacon antenna on the center of the belly under the > elevator pushrod. This would put the antenna and power supply about four > inches from each other. Has anyone done this? If so were there any problems > with interference from the power supply to the MB antenna. Did exactly this. No problems detected. Tip: offset the MB a little from center so the antenna connector/wire will clear the pushrod. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~75 hrs) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bdubsrv6a(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: Re: pulling my hair out by the primers
Listers, There are two primers listed in "18 years of the RV-ator" on page 24. They are Marhyde #5111 and SYN-LUX etching filler. No one has mentioned either, but perhaps someone has some experience using one of these. I would gladly listen to any helpful info on primers. Not my favorite thing to do! :) Bud West rv6a feathers ________________________________________________________________________________
From: flyhars(at)ibm.net
Subject: Mark12-D
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Listers: I am looking for a hook up diagram for a Narco Mark12-D and A Narco AT-50A Transponder. Any help appreciated. Harvey Sigmon - RV-6AQB Wiring Panel ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com>
Subject: RV-9A elevator and rudder trailing edges
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Mark: I used Avery's edge rolling tool on my elevators. I was afraid to put too much of a bend in the skin. What I did was barely visible. The elevators look a little better than the rudder but I can't say that I'm really satisfied with it. I just got my fuel tank sealant from Van's and will be mixing some up to bond the foam trim tab ribs. When I do this, I am going to try squeezing some into the trailing edges and clamp them tight. I'll let you know how they come out. Chris Heitman Dousman WI RV-9A N94ME (reserved) Wing rear spars -----Original Message----- Have any RV-9A builders come up with a really good way to eliminate the gaps between rivets on the trailing edge of the rudder and elevators? Has anyone tried slightly bending the trailing edge of the skins or using Proseal. If so, what were the results? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Tipup canopy rear window sealing?
Date: Mar 27, 2000
> Has anyone used a sealant sucessfully on the rear window of a 6 tipup? It > appears that since it is mounted on the inside of the skin, that rain will > leak in without a sealant. What is the experience of folks in the rain > without a sealant? I'd recommend staying away from RTV. Proseal or Lexel (H/w store stuff) works well. Lexel is clear and paintable, bonds very well, and wont harm or etch the plexi. Trust me on this, I did a lot of research and testing before using it. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~75 hrs) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Two New, Early-Model RV-4 Cowls For Sale...
Date: Mar 27, 2000
> I recently purchased a Constant Speed Prop for my RV-4 project [snip] YAAAAA! That's my man! You'll be SMOKIN! Randall ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bdubsrv6a(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Subject: Re: Horizontal stab, how to hold it in jig
Bill, Refer to fig 6-1pp in section 6 The empennage instructions from Van's with your kit. There is a temporary post which you can clamp the forward spar to while working on the horizontal stab. The temp. post can be screwed to the upper and waist high horizontal bars. Hope this helps. Bud West rv6a feathere ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com>
Subject: pulling my hair out by the primers
Date: Mar 27, 2000
I've used the marhyde extensively on my 6a. you cant beat the spray can. the great thing about this stuff is it dries to almost a satin paint finish, not like that chalky variprime and others. just a note ...when i noticed a color and application properties change around December i called "bondo corp." marhyde, and was told due to new regulations on solids in the paint, the formula was changed. at first i was pissed that they changed a good product, but after a can or two i found the higher acid content had more bite and was less prone to fisheye on not so clean parts. also the pigment was darkened to make up for less solids. the primer seems to cover as well as before, so I'd still recommend it to anyone who would like to avoid mixing primer in spray guns. Steven DiNieri capsteve(at)wzrd.com > Listers, > > There are two primers listed in "18 years of the RV-ator" on > page 24. They > are Marhyde #5111 and SYN-LUX etching filler. No one has > mentioned either, > but perhaps someone has some experience using one of these. > I would gladly > listen to any helpful info on primers. Not my favorite thing > to do! :) > > Bud West > rv6a feathers > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: B&C 60 Amp Alternator...
Date: Mar 27, 2000
> Looking back over the archives I found some comments both pro and con > for the B&C L60 Alternator and wanted to share my first impressions of > the unit. In a word this is a beautiful piece of work. I ordered the > L60 model in the "Boss Mount" configuration and it mated up perfectly > with the Van's Lycoming O360A1A. The supplied Gates XL belt also fit > perfectly. Alignment of the boss mount and supplied screws was right on > the money as was the adjustment bracket arm. The unit is very compact > and I'm confident it will fit nicely under the cowling. Matt, If you think the L60 is cute you ought to see the L40! It's probably 2/3 the size and very cute. One bit of advice that Scott McDaniels passed on to me after noticing mine was to get a shorter belt and mount it closer to the engine case to eliminate any possible cowl interference. You may notice that it will only slide up in the mounting slot so far. Scott said to dismount the arm, cut off the end that bolts to the engine case, and drill a new hole. This will allow the whole thing to tuck in closer to the case still without interfering with the prop oil line. Of course you'd be on a scavenger hunt for the proper shorter belt then. Although I haven't done this mod yet with my L40 I think I will. Great pics, Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500, pluming & wiring www.pacifier.com/~randyl ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kathy & Bill Peck" <peck(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Idea sharing
Date: Mar 27, 2000
Now that Kathy and I are in the air with our RV-6A(Q), we've proven to ourselves that this airplane is doing everything we had hoped/expected that it would. We did three things in the process of building this particular RV-6A that are at least a minor departure from options already available from Van's (and that I'm pleased enough with to brag about a little!). We've put pictures of all of these features on our website for anyone interested to take a look. It's at: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/YosemiteDr/n110kb/RV6-A.html The three features - 1. We installed a flap position indicator using a MAC position sensor and LED readout to match the aileron trim and elevator trim readouts. While it is absolutely unnecessary to have a position indicator on the flaps (you can FEEL where they are, or glance at the wing and see them), it's a neat "whiz-bang" gadget. 2. Instead of putting the normal electric aileron trim system on (with the little tab hanging off the left aileron just waiting to rip my pants leg when I'm pre-flighting), we "electrified" the manual (bias spring) system. This has been quite effective (in fact, I believe it's the system of choice for the -8's with electric trim, but I'm not sure of this). One thing to watch out for - I learned the hard way that the travel direction needed for the lever arm is counter-intuitive. Since the springs connect to the aileron linkage below the stick pivot point, the lever needs to move right for left trim, and vice-versa. You get this tidbit free - I had to reverse the servo wires and flip the indicator over to have things work correctly! 3. We put the engine gauges in the center of our dash, and the avionics stack directly in front of the copilot. I think the appearance of this arrangement is really nice, but we worried a little about (single pilot) ergonomics. We spend a lot of time with two pilots in the plane, and this division of duties makes cross-country VERY easy for us. When we did transition training with Mike Seager, he suggested "canting" the avionics toward the pilot a little if we did this. We took his advice, and the end result is that the avionics are still very visible to the pilot (including the moving map display in the KLX-135 GPS/com). The method we came up with for tipping the radios a little was simple, and I think it's still pretty professional in appearance. I considered making a little "fairing" for this, but believe that the approach we used looks as good as anything that we could have added. Check the web page and see for yourself... (Note - to get all the bells and whistles into the dash that we wanted, we also stretched the height 1 1/2" over a "stock" dash - seems to work ok, and isn't hard on knees getting in and out.) One caution - we use this web page as a communication tool, etc. If you like any of these ideas, I'd recommend that you copy that particular picture to somewhere that you can save it - it'll probably only be "out there" for a month or so on our site... Enough bragging, and apologies to those of you who aren't interested in these "gadgets. For you purists holding every ounce to a minimum, none of these ideas are going to have much value! Bill & Kathy Peck - RV-6A flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gusndale(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Subject: Re: Grass strips...
In a message dated 3/27/00 12:32:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com writes: << Can anyone tell me how the RVs hold up to grass. I keep hearing stories about 6As with broken gear attach points on the nose wheel and such. Before I vibrate my airframe into little tiny pieces it would be nice to hear how these planes hold up to all those bumps. >> Jim, All of the factory demos and transition trainers are based at the Sunset grass strip where Van's Skunkworks shop/hangar is. They get plenty of use and seem to be holding together just fine. Dale Wotring RV6A Finishing endlessly Vancouver, WA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2000
From: pdsmith <pdsmith(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Matching Van's powder coating
Hi Everyone: Information for the archives - in case anyone needs it in the future; because it took me a while to gather all this data. Van's powder coating (as supplied on the kits at the time of writing) is made by Cardinal and is GR230 - light grey. Half my kit was powder coated & half was bare metal. If you buy more powder from Cardinal because your local powder coater doesn't stock it, make sure you get an exterior product - I bought polyurethane. Apparently some of the epoxy and hybrid powder coats do not stand up well to ultraviolet light and will rapidly lose gloss and color. Cans of aerosol touch up paint are available to match the stock colors (also from Van's for the GC230). Other colors are available - I got GR21 which is a slightly darker gray in a semi-gloss finish. Now for the interior paint - Cardinal will match any of their stock powder coat colors with a minimum of one gallon purchase of paint. I bought a high solids polyurethane in semi gloss. They told me that this product is similar to the Sherwin-Williams Sunfire paints and is highly durable. The gallon of paint, catalyst, reducer and five pounds of powder coat cost me $140, and they delivered free the next business day. Their web site, with local contact and other information is: http://www.cardinalpaint.com/ Phil Smith ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William M. Costello" <billcos(at)enteract.com>
Subject: Socket head screws
Date: Mar 28, 2000
I used the Wicks search for socket head screws and came up dry. I used the AllAdvantage search and came up with this location, which is obscene, but if you can just click on it or copy and paste it, the site is great. http://www.ask.com/main/metaAnswer.asp?metaEngine=direct hit&origin=7020&MetaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fask%2Edirecthit%2Ec om%2Ffcgi%2Dbin%2FRedirURL%2Efcg%3Furl%3Dhttp%253A%252F% 252Fwww%252Eruklic%252Ecom%252Fspecifications%252Fsocket headcapscrews%252Ecfm%26qry%3Dsocket+head+screws%26rnk%3 D1%26src%3DAJ&qcategory=NERD&metaTopic=Socket+Head+Cap+S crews+specifications%2C+Hexagon+Socket+Size%2C+Head+Heig ht%2C+Head&ItemOrdinal=1&logQID=2FDEE5978C04D411974A00A0 C9ECED38 Bill Costello ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2000
From: ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips)
Subject: New Builders
For you folks just getting started- One thing I learned the hard way (like so many other things!) is that if your kit has pre-punched skins, you must consider them GOSPEL when determining locations for skeleton parts. The first installment to my "Wall of Shame" was the left HS-405 which after considerable plans review, head scratchin' and much measuring, I drilled, clecoed, amd rivetted. Of course when the skin went on I had 3/16" showing past the edge of the skin. Make your measurements carefully, but verify ALL locations with the skins before you drill them holes! FWIW- (I'm still trying to finish my first wing!) From the PossumWorks in TN Mark -6A -almost done with right flap ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Engine Installation - Book Question
Date: Mar 28, 2000
We are working on our engine installation (IO-360 A1B6). We have Tony B's books but have a number of questions re: where every hose goes, brackets, CHT/EGT, sensor feed points are, etc. Is there any one book out there that gives all this info? Thanks in advance, Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A wiring Niantic, CT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Subject: Re: rv6 accident in ca.
B. Reg.No.: 986DB M/M: RV6 Desc: EXP/ VANS RV6 Activity: Unknown Phase: Unknown GA-A/C: General Aviation Descr: LA CONTROL LOST RADIO/RADAR CONTACT WITH AIRCRAFT AT 11,000' VICINITY OF TAFT, CA; AT 1525P TAFT POLICE DEPT REPORTED AN ACFT ON GROUND 4 SSW OF TAFT ARPT, ACFT DESTROYED, 2 FATAL, TAFT, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2000
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:55:54 -0600
Another name for socket head is internal wrenching which was in the aircraft hardware catalog that I found the MS20003-length bolts. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Yohannes Kayir" <yohanneskayir(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: B&C 60 Amp Alternator...
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Matt, what kind of Ammeter are you using to go with your B&C L60 Alternator? Would a Van's Ammeter (which I have) be okay with its 40-45 Amps range. I am leaning towards the L60 based on the total electric load in my project, but my concern is pegging the Ammeter. Yohannes Kayir RV4 - instruments ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ray sheffield" <rv6a(at)prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: MB Antenna Location
Date: Mar 28, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: Randall Henderson <randallh(at)home.com> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 10:31 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: MB Antenna Location > > > I have installed the strobe power supply under the baggage floor. I would > > like to mount the marker beacon antenna on the center of the belly under > the > > elevator pushrod. This would put the antenna and power supply about four > > inches from each other. Has anyone done this? If so were there any > problems > > with interference from the power supply to the MB antenna. > > Did exactly this. No problems detected. > > Tip: offset the MB a little from center so the antenna connector/wire will > clear the pushrod. > > Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~75 hrs) > Portland, OR > http://www.edt.com/homewing > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ray sheffield" <rv6a(at)prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: MB Antenna Location
Date: Mar 28, 2000
xxx ----- Original Message ----- From: Randall Henderson <randallh(at)home.com> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 10:31 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: MB Antenna Location > > > I have installed the strobe power supply under the baggage floor. I would > > like to mount the marker beacon antenna on the center of the belly under > the > > elevator pushrod. This would put the antenna and power supply about four > > inches from each other. Has anyone done this? If so were there any > problems > > with interference from the power supply to the MB antenna. > > Did exactly this. No problems detected. > > Tip: offset the MB a little from center so the antenna connector/wire will > clear the pushrod. > > Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~75 hrs) > Portland, OR > http://www.edt.com/homewing > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Subject: Re: Engine Installation - Book Question
Vans has a diagram on his web site & posted in one of the newsletters last year that shows all the hook-ups in the firewall/engine area . You RV-6 builders are more fortunate than the rest of us because Tony B's (most recent) books show his knock-outs, passthru's , and mount on firewall locations on the RV-6 that he built. I recall actual firewall locations as suggested that apparently work for a -6...... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Installation - Book Question
Date: Mar 28, 2000
> >We are working on our engine installation (IO-360 A1B6). > >We have Tony B's books but have a number of questions re: where every hose >goes, brackets, CHT/EGT, sensor feed points are, etc. > >Is there any one book out there that gives all this info? > >Thanks in advance, > >Chuck & Dave Rowbotham >RV-8A wiring >Niantic, CT > Chuck, I was able to figure it all out with Tony's "Firewall Forward" and his engine book. Where I had some questions, I used the pics on all the builders' webpages out there. I was able to find an answer to just about every question. One of the best ways to see how to route this or mount that, is an in-person inspection of a completed RV engine installation. Are there any completed RV's nearby? You can also learn a lot from the Spam fleet out there. I stopped into the service hangar at my airport a couple of times to inspect the many ways the different manufacturers hook things up. My web page has a lot of engine pics, but if you still get stuck, let me know and I'll try to help out via direct email. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Cole" <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: rv6 accident in ca.
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Here is an entry from the N nuber database ---- N-number : N986DB Aircraft Serial Number : 60150 Aircraft Manufacturer : BIRX DANIEL Model : VANS ACFT RV-6 Engine Manufacturer : LYCOMING Model : 0-360-A1D Aircraft Year : 1998 Owner Name : BIRX DANIEL L Owner Address : 3300 CRISMORE DR OAKLEY, CA, 94561-2808 Registration Date : 03-Apr-1998 Airworthiness Certificate Type : Experimental Approved Operations : Amateur Built Ed Cole RV6A Finish Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 6:45 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: rv6 accident in ca. > > B. Reg.No.: 986DB M/M: RV6 Desc: EXP/ VANS RV6 > Activity: Unknown Phase: Unknown GA-A/C: General Aviation > Descr: LA CONTROL LOST RADIO/RADAR CONTACT WITH AIRCRAFT AT 11,000' > VICINITY OF TAFT, CA; AT 1525P TAFT POLICE DEPT REPORTED AN ACFT ON > GROUND 4 SSW OF TAFT ARPT, ACFT DESTROYED, 2 FATAL, TAFT, CA > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2000
From: "Douglas E. Bostard" <dougacft(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: RV6-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 03/27/00
Try Tom Pischel at Auburn avionics. He can help. See address above. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2000
From: "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Installation - Book Question
> You RV-6 builders are more fortunate than the rest of us because Tony B's (most > recent) books show his knock-outs, passthru's , and mount on firewall locations on > the RV-6 that he built. When you mention Tony Bingelis's engine books, you are hopefully referring to the second one "On Engines". This is very detailed and appropriate to our installations, and in fact has many diagrams and photos of the RV-6 that he built. This book is highly recommended. His first book, Firewall Forward, is comparitively worthless to us as it covers the basics of engine compartments, such as how to design a firewall, cooling system, exhaust system, engine mount, etc; things which Van has already done for us. Firewall Forward may be of interest to a self designer working on a simple, low powered design, but not really to us. Andy Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Subject: Re: RV6-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 03/27/00
TOM i'm looking for a terra trt 250 d transponder, do you have one or know where i can get one, thanks scott tampa rv6a finishing abayman(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Engine oil analysis explaination
Date: Mar 28, 2000
I plot normalized metal "units" for aluminum, iron, copper, nickel, chrome and silicon. Normalized means AOA has factored in oil time and oil added, so units are probably mass/qt/hour. I sometimes see silicon spike up when my Brackett filter gets really dirty. AOA has a really good diagnostic code sheet that differentiates between cylinder, piston, piston pin, valve guide, bearing/bushing and other components based on their unique elemental composition. You have to of course inform them of your cylinder type: Cerminil, Steel, or Cermichrome. Note that they can even surmise that high copper is due to the additive in Shell 15/50, as opposed to bushing wear! BUT it you have a new or overhauled engine, all bets are off on the first analysis because wear rates are VERY high during the first few hours of breakin. Again, if you are doing oil spectral analysis, you need to do it on a routine basis to establish a baseline for what is normal for your engine. AOA is in Phoenix -- 1 800 445 7930. Discount for AOPA members. Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit Hampshire, IL C38 > >"Dennis Persyk" on 03/27/2000 11:07:20 AM > >Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com > > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine oil analysis explaination > > >Hi Dennis, this is good stuff. Could you please elaborate on your statement >below? What elements do you track and how. Do you just enter each tracked >element into a seperate sheet and graph? Where do you get each tolerance spec? > >Thanks in advance > >Eric Henson > > >>>> I graph the critical elements in a spreadsheet and use the trend to >determine when I'll need an overhaul. I'm not there yet. > > >Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit >Hampshire, IL C38 > > >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2000
From: Gary Gunn <ggunn(at)mail.semy.com>
Subject: Re: rv6 accident in ca.
This URL has a story on the accident. http://www.latimes.com/news/state/20000328/t000029256.html > From: "Edward Cole" <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: rv6 accident in ca. > Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:01:16 -0800 > > > Here is an entry from the N nuber database > > > ---- > N-number : N986DB > Aircraft Serial Number : 60150 > Aircraft Manufacturer : BIRX DANIEL > Model : VANS ACFT RV-6 > Engine Manufacturer : LYCOMING > Model : 0-360-A1D > Aircraft Year : 1998 > Owner Name : BIRX DANIEL L > Owner Address : 3300 CRISMORE DR > OAKLEY, CA, 94561-2808 > Registration Date : 03-Apr-1998 > Airworthiness Certificate Type : Experimental > Approved Operations : Amateur Built > > > Ed Cole > RV6A Finish Kit > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 6:45 AM > Subject: Re: RV-List: rv6 accident in ca. > > > > > > B. Reg.No.: 986DB M/M: RV6 Desc: EXP/ VANS RV6 > > Activity: Unknown Phase: Unknown GA-A/C: General Aviation > > Descr: LA CONTROL LOST RADIO/RADAR CONTACT WITH AIRCRAFT AT 11,000' > > VICINITY OF TAFT, CA; AT 1525P TAFT POLICE DEPT REPORTED AN ACFT ON > > GROUND 4 SSW OF TAFT ARPT, ACFT DESTROYED, 2 FATAL, TAFT, CA > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Socket head screws
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Van's Summer '98 (current?) accessory catalog, page 46, under Industrial Grade Screws, lists 4 sizes of socket head cap screws, including "Screw 3/8-24x3/4". Is this what we need for that most inboard Z bracket to the spar? I bought some socket head screws at Eagle Hardware that are the right size, but I am not yet convinced that it is prudent to use them in this location. Terry Watson RV-8A Seattle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: avdub(at)mindspring.com
Subject: wiring questions
Date: Mar 28, 2000
This is my first whack at using this system so bear w/me. Thanks. Does anyone know what type of breaker is used with KLN89B GPS? Also, does the AK-950 Annunciator used w/it for non-precision approaches require it's own 2A brkr or is it part of the KLN89B brkr protection? Are these things as complicated in installation as they appear to be? Appreciate any help. Dick Seiders rv6a at the panel wiring level of progress ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Mar 28, 2000
"Re: RV-List: B&C 60 Amp Alternator..." (Mar 28, 7:59am)
Subject: Re: B&C 60 Amp Alternator...
>-------------- > >Matt, > >what kind of Ammeter are you using to go with your B&C L60 Alternator? >Would a Van's Ammeter (which I have) be okay with its 40-45 Amps range. I >am leaning towards the L60 based on the total electric load in my project, >but my concern is pegging the Ammeter. > >Yohannes Kayir >RV4 - instruments >-------------- I have the RMI uMonitor. Sounds like you're going to need a new Amp meter if you go with the L60. You don't want to peg your amp meter by 15-20 amps. You'll be buying a new one pretty quick anyway... Matt Dralle RV-4 #1763 -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Mag switch orientation
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Fellow Listers: Here's a very elementary question, but the concept slipped by me until now. My ignition system layout uses individual mag toggle switches like my Citabria. After doing the first layout of the switches in the switch panel on the RHS of the cockpit, it dawned on me that the mag switches essentially have to be installed inverted compared to the other switches. Is it not true, that when the mag switch toggles are in the "off" position, the switch is closed to ground out the mags?? Is this correct? Doug RV-4 =========== Doug Weiler Hudson, WI 715-386-1239 dougweil(at)pressenter.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Subject: Re: Tipup canopy rear window sealing?
From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
Randy: I was planning on useing 3M 732 clear silicon. Willl this craze the plezi? Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com ********************************************************************** > I'd recommend staying away from RTV. Proseal or Lexel (H/w store stuff) works well. Lexel is clear and paintable, bonds very well, and wont harm or etch the plexi. Trust me on this, I did a lot of research and > testing before using it. > > Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~75 hrs) > Portland, OR > http://www.edt.com/homewing > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Mag switch orientation
Date: Mar 28, 2000
>From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: "RV List" >Subject: RV-List: Mag switch orientation >Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:14:16 -0600 > > >Fellow Listers: > >Here's a very elementary question, but the concept slipped by me until now. >My ignition system layout uses individual mag toggle switches like my >Citabria. After doing the first layout of the switches in the switch panel >on the RHS of the cockpit, it dawned on me that the mag switches >essentially >have to be installed inverted compared to the other switches. Is it not >true, that when the mag switch toggles are in the "off" position, the >switch is closed to ground out the mags?? > >Is this correct? > >Doug >RV-4 > >=========== >Doug Weiler >Hudson, WI >715-386-1239 >dougweil(at)pressenter.com > Doug, You are correct. Install the switches upside down, so that UP is an OPEN circuit, thus rendering the mag hot. My switches have a little On/Off plate that is keyed to orient only one way. So, I still used the little plates but turned them over and used bright red paint on the top. Red=Hot. Pretty intuitive I reckon. Works fine and sure beats those mega buck key switches. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2000
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Mag switch orientation
Doug Weiler wrote: > > > Fellow Listers: > > Here's a very elementary question, but the concept slipped by me until now. > My ignition system layout uses individual mag toggle switches like my > Citabria. After doing the first layout of the switches in the switch panel > on the RHS of the cockpit, it dawned on me that the mag switches essentially > have to be installed inverted compared to the other switches. Is it not > true, that when the mag switch toggles are in the "off" position, the > switch is closed to ground out the mags?? > > Is this correct? > Correct. Sam Buchanan (RV-6 with toggle switches for the mags) "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Subject: Re: Mag switch orientation
Elect. Bob's solution used [[momentary contact/off/on DPDT ]] switch wired like you indicated but with the added security of the start position being the momentary position. This safety feature disables the correct mag during start so there won't be any kick-back. sbuc(at)hiwaay.net on 03/28/2000 03:10:55 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Mag switch orientation Doug Weiler wrote: > > > Fellow Listers: > > Here's a very elementary question, but the concept slipped by me until now. > My ignition system layout uses individual mag toggle switches like my > Citabria. After doing the first layout of the switches in the switch panel > on the RHS of the cockpit, it dawned on me that the mag switches essentially > have to be installed inverted compared to the other switches. Is it not > true, that when the mag switch toggles are in the "off" position, the > switch is closed to ground out the mags?? > > Is this correct? > Correct. Sam Buchanan (RV-6 with toggle switches for the mags) "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2000
From: hal kempthorne <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: clamping aluminum - steel bolt overkill
I don't understand, Cy, "just clamping aluminum". Spar bolts just clamp aluminum and the big ones are not only aviation bolts, they are extra high strength aviation bolts. hal Cy Galley wrote: > > > The MS number is MS20003 for a number 10 then a dash in 1/16s for the grip > length. MS20003-4 would have grip length of 1/4" > Ms20004-4 is the same except it is 1/4 diameter. Since you are clamping > Aluminum. a steel bolt is overkill. Your hardware store would have Allen > headed cap screws of the proper diameter and length that will do the job. ============================================ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2000
From: hal kempthorne <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: RV List Courtesy
Eric, There are those who compulsively tell others what to do, how to behave, what to say etc. Pity them, they cannot help themselves. This is America - say what you like where you like. Give them the finger if you like. hal ENewton57(at)aol.com wrote: > > > I posted the Vor vs GPS question because I am buying the instruments and will > soon be laying out the instrument panel for my RV-6a. Isn't it pertainant to > what I am doing? Is it inappropriate to ask questions about various options > that can be installed in our RV's and what works for the more experienced > ones? Do you also feel that the questions regarding Navaid, Fuel senders, > Primers, Landing Lights and other choices or options to be used should not > be discussed? I appreciate getting this advise for the ones with far more > experience than myself. If I got the wrong idea about the intent of the list > and I apologize and will keep my questions to myself. > Eric Newton > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2000
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Mark12-D
Can't help on the 12D but send me your mailing address and I will send a wireing diagram on the AT-50 transponder. flyhars(at)ibm.net wrote: > > > Listers: I am looking for a hook up diagram for a Narco Mark12-D and A Narco > AT-50A Transponder. Any help appreciated. > Harvey Sigmon - RV-6AQB Wiring Panel > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "AV8R" <jhth(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: VM-1000
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Question for someone familiar with the VM-1000/EC-100. Does this setup require a separate fuel gauge? I don't see anything in the description that indicates this system indicates fuel quantity. John Hall RV8-QB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2000
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Socket head screws
Try a motorcycle shop for a good selection of socket head screws "William M. Costello" wrote: > > > I used the Wicks search for socket head screws and came up > dry. I used the AllAdvantage search and came up with this > location, which is obscene, but if you can just click on it > or copy and paste it, the site is great. > > http://www.ask.com/main/metaAnswer.asp?metaEngine=direct > hit&origin=7020&MetaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fask%2Edirecthit%2Ec > om%2Ffcgi%2Dbin%2FRedirURL%2Efcg%3Furl%3Dhttp%253A%252F% > 252Fwww%252Eruklic%252Ecom%252Fspecifications%252Fsocket > headcapscrews%252Ecfm%26qry%3Dsocket+head+screws%26rnk%3 > D1%26src%3DAJ&qcategory=NERD&metaTopic=Socket+Head+Cap+S > crews+specifications%2C+Hexagon+Socket+Size%2C+Head+Heig > ht%2C+Head&ItemOrdinal=1&logQID=2FDEE5978C04D411974A00A0 > C9ECED38 > > Bill Costello > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: RV List Courtesy
Date: - - - , 20-
> > > >Eric, > >There are those who compulsively tell others what to do, how to >behave, what to say etc. Pity them, they cannot help themselves. > >This is America - say what you like where you like. Give them the >finger if you like. > >hal Listers, This is the exact behavior I was just mentioning in my last post that concerned flaming. This is the behavior that has driven so many of our talented contributors off this list. I suppose Mr. Kempthorne has the bad habit of giving anyone the finger when he's been caught in an error. That seems to be the way our society is headed. Where did respect for the individual go? I guess his parents neglected to teach him about that; or, he just didn't listen. One can't expect our contributors to tolerate such nonsense and stay on board. All the originator of this thread asked for was that we conserve the list's archive space by not forgetting to use the "Do not archive" phrase. That's how I read it. That's not an unreasonable request and surely does not deserve Mr. Kempthorne's behavior. If we want to continue to make this list a high quality one, and one that maintains a higher quality of expertise, we must maintain the courtesies that are needed to keep it that way. Otherwise, we may as well belong to a newsgroup that has no controls and is used by a bunch of jerks who have no respect for others. As I see it, the RV-list is well on its way to being such a newsgroup. I sure am glad I got my RV built before that happens. I just feel sorry for the ones behind me who haven't completed their airplane and are looking to this group for help. I'm not sure they'll get it. They'll most likely get the finger for asking. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Subject: Re: VM-1000
Bingo! It was news to me as well. Apparently it monitors fuel flow but not quantity. I guess you just push a button to tell it that the tanks have been topped off and it takes the ball and runs with it from there. I went ahead and picked up the Stewart Warner fuel senders as well as two gages from Vans. Since yours is a QB you get the pleasure of opening your tanks to install the fuel senders as well. Lots of proseal fun! - Jim Andrews RV-8AQ ( fuse - cockpit - paint ) N89JA ( reserved ) "AV8R" on 03/28/2000 04:42:18 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: VM-1000 > Question for someone familiar with the VM-1000/EC-100. Does this setup > require a separate fuel gauge? I don't see anything in the description that > indicates this system indicates fuel quantity. John Hall RV8-QB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2000
From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-9A Rudder Trailing Edges
I sent an e-mail to Scott Risan at Van's tech support and he recommended two things when setting the rivets on the trailing edge of the RV-9A rudder. First, he suggested that you alternate the sides you set the rivets from. Second, he said to progressively set the rivets. By this he meant to "half" set the rivets, then come back and finish them after each one is "half" set. Mark Schrimmer Irvine, CA RV-9A empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: VM-1000
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Yes and no. Like the EC-100, which is an option for the VM-1000, the fuel sending units and add-on are an option. The probes that come with it are somewhat long and have to be mounted diagonally in the tank from low point to high point. If you have a qucik build kit it is just about impossible to mount it. For that reason I elected to go with the Electronics Int'l gauge and Van's resistance type sending units. Mike Robertson RV-8A QB >From: "AV8R" <jhth(at)email.msn.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: VM-1000 >Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:42:18 -0600 > > >Question for someone familiar with the VM-1000/EC-100. Does this setup >require a separate fuel gauge? I don't see anything in the description >that >indicates this system indicates fuel quantity. > >John Hall >RV8-QB > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AV8TURDON(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Subject: Re: VM-1000
A separate fuel gauge is necessary. Your options are many. I used International Instruments Dual read out and totalizer. Don ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6Paul(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Subject: ******Special RV Shirts********
Hey RVers, I want to personally thank all of you that have ordered shirts with your personal RV embroidered on it. The response has been tremendous, and I have had alot of fun doing it too. For all of you that may not have seen my posting, I will post again. I will embroider your personal RV with your paint scheme and n-number on a high quality polo shirt with or without a pocket (you specify) for only $20 per shirt. I do not charge for any setup fee. I ask that you please order at least 4 shirts when ordering however. Please send: Your name Address Phone number Shirt size Shirt color and a photo of your RV from the side to: Paul Brown 2731 SE Tailwinds Rd Jupiter, FL 33478 Thanks so much for all your orders, and I look forward to doing more of them soon!! Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Subject: Question on Stab and Fin Final Assembly...
Hi Listers, Here's a question regarding the final assembly of the Horz. Stab and the Fin. I jiged these baby's up nicely during the fabrication phase - cutting skins, drilling holes, etc. - and everything is looking good. I've had them out of the jig for priming and am now looking at Mr. Rivet Gun with a gleam in my eye. So here's my question; while riveting these, do I need to have them in the jig? The structure with clecos seems pretty rigid and doesn't twist. Any insight would be appreciated. Matt Dralle RV-4 #1763. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2000
From: Bobby Hester <bhester(at)apex.net>
Subject: Air Compressors?
I'm not am RV builder yet! When and if I do, it will be a quickbuild. But I need to buy an air compressor for my hanger. Here are the questions - Two types oil or oil free? Which one should I get? Is 27 galloons a big enough tanks? At 90 psi what cfm will I need to put out? Is 6 cfm enough? Is one not as noisy as the other? -- Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/7373/ And see my Rans S12xl experimental aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2000
From: Ed Hobenshield <edhob(at)kermode.net>
Subject: Re: Grass strips...
>Grass strips/Dirt strips-- > >As most have pointed out, a well maintained grass strip should be no >problem. But, as Bill Boyd pointed out with out light weight and >relatively stiff gear, high speed bumps/undulations can make things >exciting on the fast end of take offs and landings. Also, our "small" >wheels are a disadvantage with ruts. grooves, soft/wet soil/sandy soil >and can lead to some quick, unexpected directional changes because our >tires will dig in and follow the topographical geography. Also, some >grass strips are "domed" (not "doomed") to allow rain run off to the >sides--if you leave the centerline, your plane may want to follow the >downhill course towards the ditch and you should be prepared for this. >Depending on the speed mods to your wheel fairings, an uneven strip can >do some damage and even leave some hard worked at fiberglass behind. >RV's are not "bush pilot" stuff unless you get rid of the fairings and >go for bigger tires. As a final thought, also remember that a >dirt/gravel strip can do real damage to your bottom side paint job and >maybe even the prop. >Boyd Boyd, I have some 500+ take-offs and landings off Grass, dirt, gravel strips with my RV-6. If these strips are grass only, smooth and trimed , they are a treat to fly from. I take off the wheel pants ( one piece ) spring and fall as my strip has a little of every thing. What I have found ( on my strip ) is the leading edges on the tail catch hell at times. I do have a leading edge tape which I replaced at 100 hrs as it did its job but was chewed up badly. Also, the rear of the wheel pants skuff up a bit when used on grass during summer. The upper left landing fairing gets nicks and the prop very little if applied power slowly and not ran up over gravel. What I really noticed was an almost sand blast job when landing on a crush gravel strip with full flaps! Don't do that again! All in all,a grass strip in good shape is hard to beat. Try Vans at his place, thats where you get your demo ride ( at least used to ) Ed Hobenshield RV-6 C- FXXG Ed Hobenshield edhob(at)kermode.net Kitwanga, BC, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: clamping aluminum - steel bolt overkill
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Maybe you have heard of... "a chain is no stronger than its weakness link" So it is with any bolted structure. If the shear of the steel bolt is greater than the aluminum then the bolt is stronger. If it is in tension then the tensile strength of the bolt minor bolt diameter has to be as great of greater than the cross-section of the aluminum clamped under the head and washer. I will admit that I do not know the application nor location of this bolt. I did however recommend an MS internal wrenching bolt MS20003-n because of the tightening difficulties. As I understood, it was going into a nut plate which isn't a high strength application. So the MS20003 is a bit of over kill. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "hal kempthorne" <kempthornes(at)home.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 2:25 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: clamping aluminum - steel bolt overkill > > I don't understand, Cy, "just clamping aluminum". Spar bolts just clamp > aluminum and the big ones are not only aviation bolts, they are extra > high strength aviation bolts. > > hal > > Cy Galley wrote: > > > > > > The MS number is MS20003 for a number 10 then a dash in 1/16s for the grip > > length. MS20003-4 would have grip length of 1/4" > > Ms20004-4 is the same except it is 1/4 diameter. Since you are clamping > > Aluminum. a steel bolt is overkill. Your hardware store would have Allen > > headed cap screws of the proper diameter and length that will do the job. > ============================================ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: clamping aluminum - steel bolt overkill
Date: Mar 28, 2000
I went back and looked. It was NOT about spar bolts, it was one of many, many tank bolts into plate nuts. In this application, a good class 5 would be more than adequate. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "hal kempthorne" <kempthornes(at)home.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 2:25 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: clamping aluminum - steel bolt overkill > > I don't understand, Cy, "just clamping aluminum". Spar bolts just clamp > aluminum and the big ones are not only aviation bolts, they are extra > high strength aviation bolts. > > hal > > Cy Galley wrote: > > > > > > The MS number is MS20003 for a number 10 then a dash in 1/16s for the grip > > length. MS20003-4 would have grip length of 1/4" > > Ms20004-4 is the same except it is 1/4 diameter. Since you are clamping > > Aluminum. a steel bolt is overkill. Your hardware store would have Allen > > headed cap screws of the proper diameter and length that will do the job. > ============================================ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Subject: Re: Terra TRT-250 Transponder
In a message dated 3/28/00 9:02:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, ABAYMAN(at)aol.com writes: << I'm looking for a terra trt 250 d transponder, do you have one or know where i can get one, >> I have a buddy that may have one for sale that is in need of repair. If you can't find a working one, E-mail me and I'll give you contact info. -GV (RV-6A N1GV) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2000
From: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)arlington.net>
Subject: Re: Tipup canopy rear window sealing?
Bernie, I have not had my tipup in the rain but it being sealed would appear to be a must item. I used Lexel during installation of the plexi. It was previously recommended on the List...it seems to be a super clear RTV-type material available at most hardware stores. When my plane was painted professionally, the plexi was well masked from the paint. After the paint was dry, the painter placed masking tape on the plexi about 1/8 inch from the outside edge. ProSeal type black sealant was then filleted from the painted metal frame to the masking tape. I am sure the tape was removed before the black stuff dried. It makes a good looking job and should be effective, leaving the Lexel in a backup role. My painter could have paid more attention to detail doing this task however. Seems that is the complaint of everyone concerning their painter. This is a strong point for painting your own plane...then you can blame noone but yourself. Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas -6A flying through 160 hours...SNF on Wedenesday! Rv660wm(at)aol.com wrote: > > > Has anyone used a sealant sucessfully on the rear window of a 6 tipup? It > appears that since it is mounted on the inside of the skin, that rain will > leak in without a sealant. What is the experience of folks in the rain > without a sealant? > > Bernie Kerr, 6A getting seriously close, 60WM, SE Fla > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bmaynard507(at)cs.com
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Subject: RV-6/6A Airfoil Template
I getting ready to do final assembly at the airport. I was looking for my Wing Airfoil Template and come to find out they were lost during my last move. Does anyone around the New Orleans area have a set of Wing Airfoil Templates that I could use for a couple days? I wish to recheck my flaps and ailerons positions. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Air Compressors?
Date: Mar 28, 2000
If you value your hearing in any way I suggest NOT buying an oil free. So much so that I have a perfectly good oil free sitting in my garage next to the oil lubricated new one that I bought in order to build this plane. I use a pneumatic drill, pneumatic squeezers (thanks Denny), die grinders (andgle and straight) nearly 90% of the time I'm building this plane and I JUST started. I wouldn't even consider buying another oil free.....not for use inside anyway. I can have a conversation in the two car garage I'm building in while the new compressor is running. And for $388 it's hard to beat (Home Depot) with it's very large tank so it starts up less frequently. Bill ---- Original Message ----- From: "Bobby Hester" <bhester(at)apex.net> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 9:26 PM Subject: RV-List: Air Compressors? > > I'm not am RV builder yet! When and if I do, it will be a quickbuild. > But I need to buy an air compressor for my hanger. > Here are the questions - Two types oil or oil free? Which one should I > get? > Is 27 galloons a big enough tanks? > At 90 psi what cfm will I need to put out? Is 6 cfm enough? > Is one not as noisy as the other? > -- > Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY > Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/7373/ > And see my Rans S12xl experimental aircraft > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Mag switch orientation
>Here's a very elementary question, but the concept slipped by me until now. >My ignition system layout uses individual mag toggle switches like my >Citabria. After doing the first layout of the switches in the switch panel >on the RHS of the cockpit, it dawned on me that the mag switches essentially >have to be installed inverted compared to the other switches. Is it not >true, that when the mag switch toggles are in the "off" position, the >switch is closed to ground out the mags?? The toggle switches we offer have a full compliment of terminals on the back so that a switch can be "OFF" in either the up or down position. You can also combine start and mag switch functions by using a three position, momentary switch for the left mag . . . OFF, ON, START and a two pole switch for the right mag wired so that starter contactor can be engaged ONLY if the right mag is OFF. This concept is illustrated in many power distribtution diagrams downloadable from our website. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( The only time you don't fail is the last ) ( time you try something, and it works. ) ( One fails forward toward success. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: B&C 60 Amp Alternator...
>>what kind of Ammeter are you using to go with your B&C L60 Alternator? >>Would a Van's Ammeter (which I have) be okay with its 40-45 Amps range. I >>am leaning towards the L60 based on the total electric load in my project, >>but my concern is pegging the Ammeter. What is your total load? Its a rare airplane that can put more than 25 amps on an alterntor with everything on and you never operate with everything on. When pitot heat is ON, lots of lights should be OFF. Does your ammeter have an external shunt? If so, the shunt can be changed to accomodate the larger alternator output. I really discourage the use of ammeters with built in shunts, you have to run large current carrying conductors more places behind the panel and close to everything else. The remote shunted ammteres featured in our power distribution diagrams are much friendlier to the rest of the airplane's electro-goodies. An L40 alternator may be enough snort for your airplane in which case the ammeter you have is fine. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( The only time you don't fail is the last ) ( time you try something, and it works. ) ( One fails forward toward success. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: South bound battery
>Listers, >After 7 1/2 years, my battery went south. It was an RG-25 Concorde. >I replaced it with a RG-25XC. I hope I have better luck with the new >battery. BETTER luck? . . . 7.5 years is a long time for any battery to last . . . but may I suggest that your battery wasn't REALLY up to the task of providing standby power in case of alternator failure. This is one of the problems with the superior cranking ability of the RG batteries. They can be very tired in the CAPACITY department before they totally die in the CRANKING department. Just because your battery got the engine going doesn't say much about how long it will run essential goodies if the alternator barfs. see http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/battest.pdf Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( The only time you don't fail is the last ) ( time you try something, and it works. ) ( One fails forward toward success. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: WD616 Welding Breaks
Date: Mar 28, 2000
> Listers, has anyone else had the problem ofthe welds breaking on the WD616 > canopy frame assembly? [snip] > Are these welds structural? The thickness of the welds joining these pieces > together seems thin compared to the pieces joined. > Could I repair using a splice plate for the side assembly and AN426ad4-x > rivets or perhaps JBWeld if non-structural, or should I get the pieces > re-welded? I didn't see any other responses to this so even though I'm not a welding expert nor do I have any insight as to the structural-ness of this part, I'll throw in my ..02: IMHO you should send it to Vans or whatever it takes to get it FIXED. Seems to me you really don't want any kind of cracked welds anywhere. Am I right? Anyone? Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~75 hrs) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2000
From: Frank and Dorothy <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Question on Stab and Fin Final Assembly...
Matt Dralle wrote: > Here's a question regarding the final assembly of the Horz. Stab and the > Fin. I jiged these baby's up nicely during the fabrication phase - > cutting skins, drilling holes, etc. - and everything is looking good. > I've had them out of the jig for priming and am now looking at Mr. Rivet > Gun with a gleam in my eye. So here's my question; while riveting > these, do I need to have them in the jig? The structure with clecos > seems pretty rigid and doesn't twist. I'd say, Yes, put them in the jig. Not so much to control visible twisting and such of the structure, but to minimise any oil-canning which can result from very minor twisting and omovement. > Matt Dralle > RV-4 #1763. #1763??? And just closing up the HS & VS??? What *have* you been doing? (Apart from running this wonderful list, of course). Frank. (RV-6 #24692, putting seat bottom skins into fuselage) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lt. Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: Re: RV List Courtesy
Date: Mar 28, 2000
Shirley you must be kidding? With all this flaming about flaming.... It can't be the first of April already? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N728ps(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 29, 2000
Subject: empennage fairing
About a month ago, Bob Adams posted a message about an empennage fairing he bought for his RV-6. The guy that makes these is Bob Snedaker , his company is Fairings Etc. He is located in Arlington, Wa., phone # is 360-659-5055. My fairing arrived yesterday , it fits like a glove and the quality of work is great. Scott Baldwin N728P RV-6 ( finishing panel wiring ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2000
From: Frank and Dorothy <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Re: RV screensaver?
"Robert M. Day" wrote: > If anyone has the RV screen saver, could you please email it to me? You can find it at http://members.xoom.com/frankv/screensaver If you can't access it via the Web, email me and I'll email it to you. Either way, bear in mind that it is *big* -- 6.6MB of images, plus the actual screensaver program (another 700KB). You don't need all the images (except of course you can't tell which ones you want until after you've downloaded them :-). Most are taken from Van's RV of the week, others from various places round the Web. I'll admit, generally without the owner or photographer's permission (although a few people emailed me images to be included). If anyone sees their photo and objects, I'm only to happy to remove it. Most images are of RV-6s, because I set it up to help me decide on colour schemes and paint jobs for my RV-6. Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2000
From: Frank and Dorothy <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Re: WD616 Welding Breaks
> > Listers, has anyone else had the problem ofthe welds breaking on the WD616 > > canopy frame assembly? I don't have my plans handy, so I'll have to be long-winded and describe the parts. Is this the section that goes down either side of the canopy? And does it apply to the tip-up canopy? If so, I think I know what your problem is... My parts had been welded somewhat inaccurately... there was some overhang at the aft end of each, which I removed. I then found tha the angles had been welded on at the wrong angle... each of the angle/gusset things was about 3/32" out at the front, so that the gusset doesn't form a right angle with the long part. I believe if I tried to force it into shape, I'd probably break them. The lack of a right angle means the aft canopy frame (the bit that lines up with the rollover bar) won't line up accurately for rivetting... forcing it to align will make it all twisted and stressed and horrible. I had thought to flute the long arms to make everything fit again, but decided that would look too tacky. Now I'm planning to just add shims to the aft end to produce a surface that *is* at a right angle. HTH, Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Nolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com>
Subject: South bound battery(Nuckolls)
Date: Mar 29, 2000
Bob, I believe you're right. And since N444JN is now IFR certified with the extra goodies to go IFR, I'll listen to you and change batteries every two years. I'll probably whine and shed a few tears but I'll do it anyway. Jim > >Listers, > >After 7 1/2 years, my battery went south. It was an RG-25 Concorde. > >I replaced it with a RG-25XC. I hope I have better luck with the new > >battery. > > BETTER luck? . . . 7.5 years is a long time for any battery > to last . . . but may I suggest that your battery wasn't REALLY > up to the task of providing standby power in case of alternator > failure. This is one of the problems with the superior cranking > ability of the RG batteries. They can be very tired in the CAPACITY > department before they totally die in the CRANKING department. > Just because your battery got the engine going doesn't say much > about how long it will run essential goodies if the alternator > barfs. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2000
From: Peter laurence <plaurenc(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Air Compressors?
Be aware that the home Depot compressor pistons are aluminum. The cast iron units can be purchased directly from Campbell-Hausfeld. Bill Shook wrote: > > If you value your hearing in any way I suggest NOT buying an oil free. So > much so that I have a perfectly good oil free sitting in my garage next to > the oil lubricated new one that I bought in order to build this plane. I > use a pneumatic drill, pneumatic squeezers (thanks Denny), die grinders > (andgle and straight) nearly 90% of the time I'm building this plane and I > JUST started. I wouldn't even consider buying another oil free.....not for > use inside anyway. I can have a conversation in the two car garage I'm > building in while the new compressor is running. And for $388 it's hard to > beat (Home Depot) with it's very large tank so it starts up less frequently. > > Bill > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "Bobby Hester" <bhester(at)apex.net> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 9:26 PM > Subject: RV-List: Air Compressors? > > > > > I'm not am RV builder yet! When and if I do, it will be a quickbuild. > > But I need to buy an air compressor for my hanger. > > Here are the questions - Two types oil or oil free? Which one should I > > get? > > Is 27 galloons a big enough tanks? > > At 90 psi what cfm will I need to put out? Is 6 cfm enough? > > Is one not as noisy as the other? > > -- > > Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY > > Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/7373/ > > And see my Rans S12xl experimental aircraft > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fesenbek, Gary" <Gary.Fesenbek(at)marykay.com>
Subject: Air Compressors?
Date: Mar 29, 2000
>I'm not am RV builder yet! When and if I do, it will be >a quickbuild. >But I need to buy an air compressor for my hanger. >Here are the questions - Two types oil or oil free? Which one should I >get? >Is 27 galloons a big enough tanks? >At 90 psi what cfm will I need to put out? Is 6 cfm enough? >Is one not as noisy as the other? I used a 33 gallon 8 cfm oil-less compressor to build my 6A. When I started building I was swayed by the opinions of others who what-if'd me into a bigger compressor than I needed. I should mention I painted my airplane myself using both HVLP guns and normal high pressure guns and I didn't run out of air a single time when painting. How can that be? Because I paid $125 and rented a 100 cfm compressor for a week to do the painting. Sure I could of put that $125 into a larger compressor but I live in an apartment and where will I put that 75hp, 100 cfm unit? Oh by the way I also did a quickbuild. There are some big stretches where you will be doing a lot of riveting such as the wing skins and of course the fuselage skins. I think I set a good 10-20% of my rivets with the hand squeezer or C-Frame anyway. Another 20% of my rivets were set with just a portable air tank that I filled with my compressor. I am kind of a migrant worker (software developer) so I move a lot. I'm attracted to things that are mobile and portable. There are a lot of considerations that go into selecting an air compressor, however, if I could do it all over again I would opt for a smaller unit in my situation with an extra 9 gallon portable air tank or two in series for extra capacity when needed. I put together a hush house for my compressor from shipping crate scraps because the oil-less ones do put out more noise. When not needed simply unplug the extra capacity air tank, bring it out to the airport and fill the tires in your airplane or run your air drill for a while without the need for electricity or a noisy compressor running. Sure if I had stable employment : ) and a big workshop I may have opted for that 75 hp nitros injected behemoth that can run a HP paint sprayer all week but just make sure you have something to do with it after the airplane is built. Just some thoughts, Gary Fesenbek RV6A N152 35 hours Dallas, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TColeE(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 29, 2000
Subject: Re: WD616 Welding Breaks
Yes, mine broke also, I believe I got a little too aggressive trying to clamp it in place I took it to a fellow Chapter (19) member who has an irrigation business and left it with him and in about a week he had welded it back. The frame is a little floppy until it gets riveted and bolted in place. I think It got a little twisted in shipping. All is well now. Terry E.Cole N468TC Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2000
From: scott gesele <sgesele(at)usa.net>
Subject: Re: clamping aluminum - steel bolt overkill
Cy, I take exception to the recommendation of using Home Depot hardware in aircraft, especially in a structural location. AN hardware has rolled threads, most hardware store bolts have cut threads. A cut thread leaves a stress concentration at the end of the cut. This is a location where a crack may start. You will not notice this until the crack has resulted in the failure of the fastener. The rolled threads of AN hardware do not have this stress concentration. AN hardware is cad plated, I have yet to see cad plated bolts at Home Depot. AN hardware's origin is also much more traceable than the Chinese garbage in the bins at Home Depot. Those bolts may be just fine for bolting an oil burner back together, but when I have my RV up to 13,500', I feel real good knowing that I took the extra time to ensure that the proper hardware was used in the construction. We can get into the debate that Van's over engineered this joint. But if that was the case, why not recommend leaving the bolts out all together? Also, where in AC43-13 does it advocate using Class 5 bolts when the specified AN hardware is not available? This isn't meant as a flame, just trying to pass on good info. My $.02 Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying I went back and looked. It was NOT about spar bolts, it was one of many, many tank bolts into plate nuts. In this application, a good class 5 would be more than adequate. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2000
From: "Thomas Nguyen" <TNGUYEN(at)oss.oceaneering.com>
Subject: Re: clamping aluminum - steel bolt overkill
I personnally would not use hardware store bolts on my aircraft for structural application. As for rolled and cut thread bolts, I think that Scott may have overstate that there are no stress concentration at the threaded section of the rolled bolts. All bolts have stress concentration at the threaded section. For the rolled threads, this Kt (stress concentration) value is much lower than the cut threads due to the radius at the root. Hope this helps. T.Nguyen RV-6A Engine Installation and Finishing >>> scott gesele 03/29 8:29 AM >>> AN hardware has rolled threads, most hardware store bolts have cut threads. A cut thread leaves a stress concentration at the end of the cut. This is a location where a crack may start. You will not notice this until the crack has resulted in the failure of the fastener. The rolled threads of AN hardware do not have this stress concentration. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Christie" <billc(at)dancris.com>
Subject: Re: Question on Stab and Fin Final Assembly...
Date: Mar 29, 2000
Matt, I'm building an 8 rather than a 4 , but I did all my tail pieces in the jig


March 23, 2000 - March 29, 2000

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