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RV-Archive.digest.vol-im
May 10, 2000 - May 15, 2000

> > > > > >Sam Buchanan > > >"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaaay.net/~sbuc/journal > > > > > > > > >ORDER: 8700.1 > > >APPENDIX: 3 > > >BULLETIN TYPE: Flight Standards Handbook Bulletin for General > > >Aviation > > >(HBGA) > > >BULLETIN NUMBER: HBGA 99-13 > > >BULLETIN TITLE: Operations over Densely Populated Areas, > > >Experimental, > > >Amateur-Built Aircraft < snip > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2000
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: EAA Northwest Fly-in
Mike Robertson wrote: > > > While I know this may be a bit early I am planning on going to the fly-in in > Arlington this year and was wondering how many of you are planning on going > and if there is a common place where everyone meets. I am going to be there > on Friday and Saturday. > This is going to be on my own and not on the FAA time. I am bringing my > wife to convince her another RV would be a good investment. Although I > think I will have to bribe...er....buy her a few things first. > > Mike Robertson > RV-8A > Hoping...fingers crossed....to have first flight before then > I well be there, you won't miss the RV's, there could be well over a hundred there Friday and Sat. There is usally a shade tent in the RV area where people hang out, or just go around and talk to people at their airplanes. Jerry|RV-6 N906GS|Hillsboro, OR|jsflyrv(at)teleport.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Results (?)
Date: May 10, 2000
I noticed your ad in the current issue of Sport Aviation, and carefully read your web page information. I had earlier obtained a copy of your patent from the Patent Office, and purchased Dimple Tape for my RV6A. The results were extremely disappointing. I have a 160HP Lycoming driving a wood prop (Warnke) and normally the prop limits the engine speed to 2,550RPM (on a 'good day.') The normal cruise RPM is 2,300 and that produces 175MPH TAS, day in and day out. Maximum speed in level flight with half fuel, at 8,000FT density altitude; best ever= 210MPH TAS. WITH the dimple tape, engine RPM ran up to 2,800 and was willing to go higher (red line is 2,700RPM.) At this high RPM the TAS DROPPED to 135MPH TAS. Slower RPM settings produced proportionally lower air speeds. No combination of altitude or engine settings resulted in anything but VERY degraded performance. I applied the tape precisely per your directions. I removed it, and consider it a danger to the engine and the performance of the airplane. Comments? (PS I am also an attorney and electronics engineer.) RV6A Salida, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2000
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: EAA Northwest Fly-in
Mike, I went 2 years ago and had a blast. Lots of great people and airplanes. There were 60 or so RV's then, and probably a lot more this year. They're all in one area so it's easy to see them all and say hi to everybody. With any luck (and a short test period) at least one new RV-6 should be there this year, mine :-) Look for a white and blue (plus a few other colors) RV-6, N515L, with the funny fiberglass panel in it. I'll be wearing one of Steve's Davis' list name badges (with my name on it, not his) and probably sipping on a cold one in front of the airplane. Make sure you stop by and say Hi. (No fair ramp checking anybody...) See you all there, (I hope, I hope, I hope...) Laird RV-6 N515L (going to fly with Mike Seager next week...please don't rain, please don't rain) SoCal http://www.planes-wings-things.com/images/lorv60.jpg for a shot of my panel ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2000
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Results (?)
John wrote: > > > Comments? (PS I am also an attorney and electronics engineer.) > > RV6A > Salida, CO > PS I am also an attorney? Vailed threat from a attorney? LOL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Re: Eliminate "Greasy Belly"
In a message dated 5/10/00 7:07:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rv8(at)ispchannel.com writes: << Just about a week ago, I had this very conversation with Lycoming about my new O-360, and they definitely do not like air/oil separators. The reason given was corrosion due to water being returned to the engine. However, since the amount of liquid that's returned is so small, I believe you can use a small reservoir to hold it between oil changes, rather than allowing it to go back to the engine. I just tossed my separator in a bag, and set mine up the standard way.>> That's throwing the baby out with the bath water. I have the collection bottle on mine and all I ever get is straight oil (never water). The water escapes overboard as vapor as it is far more volatile than the oil. I have a stainless scrubber pad media inside my separator and it is always wetted by the fine oil droplets expelled with crankcase gases at the engine breather pipe. Water is naturally exhausted from the system. << Along the same subject, Lycoming told me that the engine was "happiest" at the 6 quart oil level. They said the 8 quart level was to satisfy an FAA requirement to be able to fly for X number of hours with a completely worn out engine. According to Lycoming, the 7th and 8th quart will increase the mess on the belly significantly. >> This is absolutely correct. -GV (RV-6A N1GV) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: FAB Air box for RV-6
Date: May 10, 2000
> I had the same problem with the heat muff interfering with the scoop on my > 6A, and was debating all sorts of not-so-fun fiberglass fixes. Then I > simply rotated the exhaust pipes in the spherical joint until the last > little bends were aimed somewhat inward, and the clearance problem was > eliminated. My plane might look a little bow-legged, but the heat muff > won't beat on the cowl. The perfect fix would be to make the last little > downward bends in the pipes angled outward from standard, maybe a muffler > shop would have the proper tools? I had the same clearance problems from day one. Eventually I figured out about turning the pipes. But by this time the pipes had rubbed on the bottom of the firewall and had worn areas on them to the point that I was worried they'd wear through. I called Larry Vetterman and he had the perfect solution -- pipe extensions he sells that slip over and clamp on, and also have a smaller turndown angle allegedly to provide more exhaust thrust. I rotated the pipes, whacked off the ends and slipped the extensions on, covering the worn area, and readjusted the hangars and now everything clears well and the turndowns point where I want them. Much better! Right now they're clamped on, I'll probably have them welded eventually. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~75 hrs) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: VP4SkyDoc(at)aol.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Re: uEncoder, Gmeter for sale
Paul, I'll buy the g-meter if its not already sold. I already built my u-encoder. Dave Leonard ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2000
From: Ronen Yehiav <yron(at)isdn.net.il>
Subject: Re: Results (?)
One suggestion (IMHO, FWIW, and its ONLY an opinion, from far, far away, you being a lawyer and all...): Your prop is over - pitched! So, even regularly, you ran too high AoA on the prop, and parts of it were stalled - that's why there was much drag, and the rev's wouldn't go up. Now, you applied the tape. Probably, if everything was OK at the beginning, you would have gotten less departure on parts of the airfoil of the prop, slightly MORE torque (funny, but - in props - some times detached flow creates less drag than turbulent, attached flow...). However, since the prop is overpitched, parts of it reached full stall - less torque, less thrust, and higher revs... What do you think? Ronen. -----Original Message----- From: John <fasching(at)amigo.net> Date: Thursday, May 11, 2000 4:36 AM Subject: RV-List: Results (?) | |I noticed your ad in the current issue of Sport Aviation, and carefully read |your web page information. I had earlier obtained a copy of your patent from |the Patent Office, and purchased Dimple Tape for my RV6A. | |The results were extremely disappointing. I have a 160HP Lycoming driving a |wood prop (Warnke) and normally the prop limits the engine speed to 2,550RPM |(on a 'good day.') The normal cruise RPM is 2,300 and that produces 175MPH |TAS, day in and day out. Maximum speed in level flight with half fuel, at |8,000FT density altitude; best ever= 210MPH TAS. | |WITH the dimple tape, engine RPM ran up to 2,800 and was willing to go |higher (red line is 2,700RPM.) At this high RPM the TAS DROPPED to 135MPH |TAS. Slower RPM settings produced proportionally lower air speeds. No |combination of altitude or engine settings resulted in anything but VERY |degraded performance. | |I applied the tape precisely per your directions. | |I removed it, and consider it a danger to the engine and the performance of |the airplane. | |Comments? (PS I am also an attorney and electronics engineer.) | |RV6A |Salida, CO | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rywessel(at)aol.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: OV protection w/built in regulator
After reviewing the archives and electric bob's schematics, I am little confused on the implementation for OV protection for alternators w/built-in regulators. I have a nipondenso alt on my Aerosport 320. Why does the OV protection require a relay to break the "B" contact on the alternator? Does removing the ground from the "C" contact (alt switch) not provide overvoltage protection for built-in alternators? thanks, Robin Wessel RV-6A finish kit Tigard, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rywessel(at)aol.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Electric Gyros VS Vac gyros
Can anyone tell me if electric gyros are fundamentally more reliable? My assumption is that one can make a very robust fault tolerant automatic redundant electric system for the gyros much easier and cheaper than a backup vac system. For example, if you took 2 RC Allen Gyros, 1 electric and 1 vac which one would have a better MTBF (mean time before failure)? Electric Gyros Pros Easy to install (no plumbing) Can easily turn off when not needed (save hours when flying in good VFR and aerobatics) Easy to implement amd low cost electric backup systems Gyro reliability??? Service life?? Cons Cost to overhaul?? Vac gyros Pros standard in GA planes low cost inherent redundancy assuming you can use a T/C in IFR Cons Backup systems costly or hard to implement/ease of use system reliability??? Comments appreciated, thanks, Robin Wessel RV-6A finish Tigard, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2000
From: Richard Reynolds <RVReynolds(at)macs.net>
Subject: Re: Electric Gyros VS Vac gyros
Rywessel(at)aol.com wrote: > > Can anyone tell me if electric gyros are fundamentally more reliable? A Navy avionics technician told me the electrics were more reliable because the "case" is sealed. The vacuums are always sucking in little "things" (dust, oil, salt). Richard Reynolds Norfolk, VA, RV-6A, all electric ($$$) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2000
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: new category
Randall Henderson wrote: > > > > I don't think I made the point very clear . . . I wouldn't > > suggest anything having to do with the FAA . . . > [snip] > > I'm thinking along lines of coining a phrase that more > > accurately describes us and perhaps with words friendlier > > to public perceptions. > > Yeah I guess my response was influenced by the other responses that were > going in more of a "change the category" direction. > > Anyway I do like the idea. Okay, from now on I pledge to introduce my plane > to people as a "custom built aircraft". > > Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~75 hrs) > Portland, OR > http://www.edt.com/homewing > I don't know about the rest of you but I am pretty proud of the fact that mine is a homebuilt aircraft. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barstad, Are" <BarstadA(at)bis.adp.com>
Subject: A-ctual VNE for the RV's?
Date: May 11, 2000
I read in the specs that 'top speed' is a certain percentage above 75% cruise. I can't see why this would be the same as VNE. The same aircraft with same engine but less HP (IO vs. O) has a lower top speed. I can see the top speed being lower with less hp, but not VNE. Do we know what it is? Has anyone (Van's?) tested the airframes in a speed tunnel to see what max 'dive speed' would be before chances of structural failures? Maybe it's not required for the experimental category. Are Barstad RV-6 Loretto, Ontario ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fesenbek, Gary" <Gary.Fesenbek(at)marykay.com>
Subject: Engine Temp
Date: May 11, 2000
1) How long does it take to get a cylinder head temperature reading? 2) When I retard the throttle all the way, the engine quits. I assume that I need to adjust the throttle stop. What RPM works best? 3) At what RPM does your engine draw full vacuum? Does it do it at idle? 1. I see 200 degrees within a few minutes. Oil temp takes quite a bit longer. Of course this will depend on outside temp but not by that much in my area. 2. You will need to set the idle and idle mixture. The best way to do this is with the engine running. I left this task to the A&P shop that I go to because you can see the idle and mixture screws are quite close to the propeller. Make certain you do this before going to fly. You don't want to pull back to idle in the air on base turn and have the engine quit on your initial test landing. Make sure whether you do it yourself or have someone else do it that you check the safety wire on the throttle linkage. I found this was safe tied backwards on my throttle linkage. My DAR did not catch that. Luckily I had a superb EAA tech counselor. 3. I had a Van's vac gauge that I had to replace and I also have a low vac warning light. My light comes on at less than 3.8". When I start and run at idle the light is on and the gauge is in the low range. I have to check this but I think when I am up to 1800 rpm I am at 4.2". You can use a small vacuum cleaner to test your vac gauge without starting the engine. My vac could only pull 2 inches which was enough to ops check the system and not damage anything. After running the engine for a while make sure you check the vac pump seal for leaks. If there are any leaks take care of these as soon as you can. Hope this helps, Gary Fesenbek RV6A Dallas, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2000
From: MMarkert(at)vul.com (Michael Markert)
Subject: GLASAIR COMPANY CLOSED
I know this isn't completely RV related, but does anyone have any info about what is going on at Stoddard-Hamilton. Whether warranted or not, stuff like this makes me nervous: GLASAIR KITPLANE COMPANY CLOSED FOR REORGANIZATION: Callers yesterday to Stoddard-Hamilton, home to Glasair and Glastar composite kitplanes since 1980, were greeted by this recorded message: "With heartfelt regret, we are temporarily closed for reorganization." The recording directs callers to the company Web site for updates, but as of our deadline yesterday no news was posted there. Stoddard-Hamilton, according to its Web site, has more than 2,000 kits in the field and some 800 aircraft flying around the world. No further information was available at our deadline yesterday. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-List:Plenum for rv4/0360
Try a mid-60's mooney engine baffle/box from the salvage yard. With the new round inlets or the traditional square openings this mooney "dog-house" as its called is 95% of what your after in a pressure plenum box...... daronson(at)cwnet.com on 05/09/2000 04:32:21 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List:Plenum for rv4/0360 Listers: Hanging the engine very soon. Looking forward to baffles and the cowling. Does anyone have plans or patterns for a sheet metal plenum for and 0360, constant speed prop in an RV4. I would like to modify the inlet holes and minimize drag by installing a plenum. There is a great picture of one in Firewall Forward that got my interests up. Any comments? Dave Aronson RV4 N504RV Firewall Forward ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
Subject: Engine Temp >> Flying a Pitts
Date: May 11, 2000
>>>Get some dual in an RV, Citabria, Pitt's, etc. Then go have the most awe inspiring flight of your life in your RV! Brian Denk RV8 N94BD Speaking of dual in a Pitts as prep for RV test flight, I just finished my 15 takeoffs and landings per insurance company in an S2B, and it was a blast! I now feel much more confident about testing my plane personally. There are two primary differences, in my estimation, between the Pitts and an RV, one - the final approach angle, and two - pattern speeds. We used about 25 degree approach angle on final at 105 mph. The Pitts glided like a brick when the power was pulled. I would imagine the RV will require more effort to kill altitude and airspeed (more flat approach angle). Bryan Jones -8, ready for inspection Pearland, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Re: locker talk
Is this a piece of empennage your referring to ? billshook(at)mindspring.com on 05/09/2000 06:28:10 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: locker talk Oh brother........anyone offended by talk as lightly sexist as this should certainly not be hanging out with any pilot's on an airport. Besides, though you mean to be kind (or politically correct) by rebuting men for talking this way.....have you ever heard how women talk when you're not around? I'll bet my newly completed empennage it would make you blush. :-) Bill -4 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2000
From: Marty Sailer <mwsailer(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Badges for List (Shipping Info) Need to Read to get Badge
Hi Steve, I mailed my envelope this morning and put 33 cents on it, however I covered my tracks and donated $5.00 to our "Exotic Island Retirement Fund". I owe you one. Thanks for making the badges, this was the best idea yet. Color or printing is immaterial. What you did looks great. Marty name="mwsailer.vcf" filename="mwsailer.vcf" begin:vcard n:Sailer;Marty adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:mwsailer(at)erols.com note:Marty RV-6A- Plumbing Fuselage fn:Marty Sailer end:vcard ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Re: Eliminate "Greasy Belly"
Aircraft Spruce sells one ? Anyone NOT able to recommend Spruces? HAROLD1339(at)aol.com on 05/10/2000 07:41:20 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Eliminate "Greasy Belly" I installed one on a Cessna 172-XP and it seems to be working well. The belly is much cleaner. So far I would recommend it. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fesenbek, Gary" <Gary.Fesenbek(at)marykay.com>
Subject: flight over densely populated areas
Date: May 11, 2000
but this bulletin would seem to preclude assembling and test flying your experimental at an airport in a congested area, South Florida, I had my RV6A inspected and tested at Addison Airport in Dallas, Texas. The airport folks there boast that this is one of the busiest GA airports in the country. It lies under the DFW class B and you can't swing a dead cat without hitting an air park or private airstrip here. In fact there is another airport three miles off the end of runway 35. The east side of the airport is 30 story buildings with plenty of cranes around building new ones while the west side is industrial parks. There is a single runway of some 7000 feet. It is controlled and has fire and a hospital about four miles away. I half expected my FAA and DAR inspector just to give me a ferry permit to fly it out to Oklahoma for testing but they gave me some good guidance for testing it there. Addison is very busy, but at certain times of the day it is not busy at all. I would generally go fly for an hour or two before work leaving at 6:30 in the morning when the wind was calm and there was no traffic. The weekends have plenty of dead times too because a lot of the traffic there is corporate. I think another consideration you want to have in an airport just getting started is runway width. Addison has 200 feet. That came in pretty handy to me as I was never worried too much about directional control problems. There is an 8 guy here that is getting ready to test off a 30' wide runway after not having flown for many years. I guess I'm a baby because even with plenty of logged hours but only 60 hours in my 6A I still won't land there. Some of the more experienced pilot I work with have nicknamed him "Dead man walking". I set up my test program(and after) similar to what is used in the military. You have certain wind limits/ runway limits and weather mins at each stage. My current limits after sixty hours of flying my airplane are ten knot crosswind, min runway length 4000', min runway width 100', wx 3000/3 forecast within two hours of ETA. Setting limits like these takes some of the guesswork out of "Should I go flying today?". I had a 40 hour test period but I still feel the pilot is in testing. I think graduated limits are a good idea. Gary Fesenbek RV6A Dallas, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Re: prop bolt's/how long
Make a depth guage out of coat hanger wire or something...Obviously this is a area where you DON'T want the bolts to "shoulder out'" or false tighten because either you ran out of thread or bottomed out the bolt...... Also, if using a Sensenich, the factory sells a extention & bolts .....FWIW Rvmils(at)aol.com on 05/10/2000 12:07:48 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: prop bolt's/how long I have a 0360 with Mark Landoll's steel ring @ 1", Culver prop @ 41/4, and Van's 21/4 prop extension. Just wandering if I'm missing something before I ordered my bolts. I'm not sure how thick Van's prop ext is and how much longer the bolts need to be in the hub. Thanks, Carey Mills ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barstad, Are" <BarstadA(at)bis.adp.com>
Subject: GLASAIR COMPANY CLOSED
Date: May 11, 2000
Beats me. The 'What's New' page was last updated on February 17, 2000 and has no information about this. Are RV-6 -----Original Message----- I know this isn't completely RV related, but does anyone have any info about what is going on at Stoddard-Hamilton. Whether warranted or not, stuff like this makes me nervous: GLASAIR KITPLANE COMPANY CLOSED FOR REORGANIZATION: ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PANELCUT(at)aol.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Badge Offer Misunderstanding
Listers I think there has been a misunderstanding about the badges. I did not mean that they were for Oshkosh Only. They are offerd to the LIST, that means ALL LIST MEMBERS are welcome. I have received many emails offering to pay for badges because they were not going to Oshkosh this year. The Stinking Badges are FREE!!! I have a big batch of the badges done and waiting for mailers Thanks (Sorry about the non RV related posts just didn't want to leave anybody out) Steve Davis The Panel Pilot http://members.aol.com/panelcut ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A-ctual VNE for the RV's?
Date: May 11, 2000
From: Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
> > >I read in the specs that 'top speed' is a certain percentage above 75% >cruise. I can't see why this would be the same as VNE. The same aircraft >with same engine but less HP (IO vs. O) has a lower top speed. I can see the >top speed being lower with less hp, but not VNE. > >Do we know what it is? Has anyone (Van's?) tested the airframes in a speed >tunnel to see what max 'dive speed' would be before chances of structural >failures? Maybe it's not required for the experimental category. > I am not sure I completely understand the question but will give it a stab. Top speed refers to the maximum true airspeed attainable in level flight. In a non-turbocharged airplane this would be full throttle at sea level. It is a flight condition that most of us will never be in. Maximum cruise speed is the maximum true airspeed attainable at 75% power, and will occur at the highest altitude that 75% power is attainable at, because that will be the minimum drag condition for that power setting. Top speed would normally be calculated rather than observed. VNE has nothing to do with performance. It is a structural or flutter related limitation. It refers to indicated airspeed (at least at lower altitudes), not true airspeed. It is normal and easy to be crusing at a true airspeed that would be well in the yellow if the airspeed indicator showed true airspeed, but the airspeed indicator will normally be showing something much less. You could be crusing at 170 knots but showing only 130 knots or so on the airspeed indicator, so you are well in the green arc. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Re: Aileron Stops/Adjustable seat back
I still like the Van's stops. I see what Akroguy is saying but I am a belts & suspenders guy with my airplane. If a component were to fail or bend I would want the stops. I used a piece of aluim. round stock, (about a .25 cent piece in diameter and a fat 1/4 inch in length) & drilled if off center to make a cam. Bolted the gizmo with a #10 bolt (as per plan location), adjusted the cam to hit where I wanted to (the Vans method is one shot in that once riveted in place its there to stay) and used a C/S & 8 to safety the cam. Looks sharp and is easy to make. Also added these cams to my seat back/stop. On long flights its nice to have a little adjustment. I can go long distances without being cramped when I exit the RV-4 if I reach up and crank in a little angle change once every 15 minutes or so. akroguy(at)hotmail.com on 05/10/2000 08:41:41 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Aileron Stops > >Anyone install adjustable aileron stops (in an -8) on the fwd side of the >spar carry through? Other locations? What I'm thinking about is pretty >much like other planes I've seen using an adjustable jack bolt with a flat >head. The flat head of the bolt is what the side of the control column >bumps against to set the aileron travel. I don't care for the suggested >stops installed on the hinge attachment. Any comments or better ideas... > >Bryan Jones >-8 ready for inspection - >after aileron stops! >Pearland, Texas Bryan, I have no aileron stops on my airplane. It passed inspection after the FAA safety inspector verified the ailerons could not go "overcenter" on the bellcrank and jam. The geometry of the pushrods are self limiting in this regard. If your inspector insists on them, then so be it. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD 88 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: A-ctual VNE for the RV's?
Date: May 11, 2000
On my Van's brand Air Speed Indicator, marked in knots for easier IFR, the red line is at about 182 knots. The red line indicates VNE and is a point beyond which it might be marked as on the sea maps of old, "here there be dragons". hal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Public and Regulatory Image Crafting . . .
A short time ago, I related a personal observation concerning the value of asserting one's aspirations and then taking the posture that the goal is already reached if not imminent. It's analagous to the mail room runner coming to working in a suit and tie . . . people are not going to even consider you for promotion if you don't appear worthy of the consideration. A bit of serendipity arrived in my e-mail box at RAC yesterday. A long time friend and mentor at Raytheon, Dr. Leland Johnson, included the following bit in his soliloquy about both internal and external images . . . in this case about RACs engineering department: >Many years ago, there was a conductor named James Robertson who not >only led the Wichita Symphony, but also had the orchestra at WSU and >the Senior Youth Symphony. Your guru was a minimally talented >bassoonist who sneaked into the Youth Symphony because no other >bassoons showed up for tryouts one year. Anyway- one Saturday morning >the maestro stopped the orchestra during rehearsal and told us this >story: > >"The Philadelphia Orchestra puts 'The World's Greatest Orchestra' on >the cover of their record albums. There are many good orchestras in >the world, and some are even great perhaps some are even better than >the Philadelphia Orchestra. But they have the courage to put it on >the cover of their albums!" > >Pausing to let that sink in, he next said in a very quiet voice: "The >World's Greatest Youth Symphony." > >Dr. Robertson picked up his baton- and we went on with rehearsal. > >Raytheon Aircraft: The World's Greatest General Aviation Company. Dr. Johnson demonstrates his own understanding and endorsement of what I suggested a few days ago. The RV faction of light aircraft fabricators, owners and pilots can set the tone for some aspects of GA's future. What we chose to call ourselves (at the risk of being labled kooks or stuffed shirts) may have a strong influence on both regulatory and societal fortunes yet to be. What ever phrase catches on, I'll suggest it would be well to make it inclusive and welcoming of all privately owned and operated light aircraft . . . ESPECIALLY the declining fleet of orphaned certificated aircraft current being canibalized just to maintain its existance by devouring itself to satisfy regulatory appetites for "certified parts". I'd love to see the day when a warm Saturday morning in a big hangar where owners of Tri-Pacers, Kitfoxes, RV's and C-170's might all have their toolboxes out to accomplish what's necessary to keep their airplanes well maintained and flying. There are thousands of RV's flying and many more to come. You folk have an opportunity here. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) ( still understand knothing. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Re: Results (?) Prop tape flap
I may have forgotten my prop 101 but isn't a overpitched prop a prop that has to much bite for the (torque/rpm/engine health/displacement) of the engine ? What does stalling(of the prob blade...being a airfoil) have to do with prop overpitch ??? Is the gentleman referring to boundry layer dynamics simular to what the VG (vortex generators) do ? If so, isn't that at the slow range of effective use of the air foil not at the fast end of the effective use of the airfoil. Surely the reynolds number dosen't effect the airfoil at this dimention............ yron(at)isdn.net.il on 05/11/2000 03:14:54 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Results (?) One suggestion (IMHO, FWIW, and its ONLY an opinion, from far, far away, you being a lawyer and all...): Your prop is over - pitched! So, even regularly, you ran too high AoA on the prop, and parts of it were stalled - that's why there was much drag, and the rev's wouldn't go up. Now, you applied the tape. Probably, if everything was OK at the beginning, you would have gotten less departure on parts of the airfoil of the prop, slightly MORE torque (funny, but - in props - some times detached flow creates less drag than turbulent, attached flow...). However, since the prop is overpitched, parts of it reached full stall - less torque, less thrust, and higher revs... What do you think? Ronen. -----Original Message----- From: John <fasching(at)amigo.net> Date: Thursday, May 11, 2000 4:36 AM Subject: RV-List: Results (?) | |I noticed your ad in the current issue of Sport Aviation, and carefully read |your web page information. I had earlier obtained a copy of your patent from |the Patent Office, and purchased Dimple Tape for my RV6A. | |The results were extremely disappointing. I have a 160HP Lycoming driving a |wood prop (Warnke) and normally the prop limits the engine speed to 2,550RPM |(on a 'good day.') The normal cruise RPM is 2,300 and that produces 175MPH |TAS, day in and day out. Maximum speed in level flight with half fuel, at |8,000FT density altitude; best ever= 210MPH TAS. | |WITH the dimple tape, engine RPM ran up to 2,800 and was willing to go |higher (red line is 2,700RPM.) At this high RPM the TAS DROPPED to 135MPH |TAS. Slower RPM settings produced proportionally lower air speeds. No |combination of altitude or engine settings resulted in anything but VERY |degraded performance. | |I applied the tape precisely per your directions. | |I removed it, and consider it a danger to the engine and the performance of |the airplane. | |Comments? (PS I am also an attorney and electronics engineer.) | |RV6A |Salida, CO | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Results (?)
Date: May 11, 2000
Jerry, No, the reference to being an attorney and an engineer is simply to mark the coincidence that the seller/patent holder of the Dimple Tape is also an attorney and an engineer. No threat involved. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: OV protection w/built in regulator
Date: May 11, 2000
One of the simplest way to provide overvoltage protection is to use Mark Landall's (spelling?) zener diode and fuse combination. Simple to install, foolproof, and inexpensive. He has an ad usually in the ad section of Sport Aviation. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Johnny Johnson" <bbds(at)wiktel.com>
Subject: Gascolator
Date: May 11, 2000
Someone wrote: >The gascolator is merely an inline gravity water separator >that will shunt a small quantity of water off to the bottom >of the bowl and allow the lighter fuel to pass thru the >mesh filter. It can be anywhere in the fuel line and I >don't know how this myth about it needing to be the >lowest point in the system got started. The practice probably got started to accomodate areas where the temp gets below freezing.... the "slug" of water that can/will collect in the low point of the system during warm times can freeze and slow or stop fuel flow when it gets cold. Another thought is that the low point is where heavy debris that may be carried along in the fuel can settle.... you gotta be able to drain the low spot IMHO, be it via the gascolator or a low-point drain. Since the gascolator already has a drain, might as well use it... Johnny Johnson 49MM -3 flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lenleg(at)aol.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Re: ***uEncoder For Sale (Lowered Price)****
Paul: I am interested. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PANELCUT(at)aol.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Re: Badge Offer Misunderstanding
Glen I need the info below and a 3x5 mailer with two 33 cent stamps and send to address below. Thanks Steve Name: email address City, State: Type Aircraft Building Steve Davis P.O. Box 510 Memphis, TN 38101 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Petri" <dpetri(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: GLASSAIR OUT OF BUSINESS
Date: May 11, 2000
If you visit Stoddard-Hamilton's website you will see their plan for reorganization. According to Ron Wanttaja, they were forced to declare bankruptcy earlier this week. Dave RV-6 Preview Plans (ya gotta start somewhere) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Re: RV- Flight Training | Mike Seger visit
Vans Factory flight training person, Mike Seger, will be conducting RV type specific flight training in the Philadelphia area this July 18, 19 & 20. ( The long way from Washington/Oregon to Oshkosh) The Usual rules apply, building/completing any RV-with preference toward those who are nearing completion. Must be a pilot with reasonably current activity . The object of Mikes' training is transition not basic flight training (most certainly it can be the basics of what a RV can/will do or more advanced RV flight training depending on your need). Three (3) am sessions and 3 PM sessions are planned starting around 8 and finishing around 5 ish. There will be three days of this- making a total possible of 18 training sessions-each lasting about 1 to 1.3 hrs....depending on what's being taught/absorbed. Cost is 75$/hr...... that included Mikes RV and his CFI time. Bring pilots log for signatures. Contact me for a slot. I will be arranging lodgings for Mike and his travel partner. It looks like if each of us who get a session can contribute 10 or 12 bucks toward the hotel then Mike is all taken care of. I will arrange travel to and from the hotel too, in order to keep Mikes expenses minimal. Lets face it, RV type training is difficult at best to get.....I want to keep Mikes stay as pleasant as possible. Please e-mail if interested. As slots are taken up, alternates will be taken so any last minute emergencies can be handled and we can use up Mikes time accordingly. e-mail to (philc(at)voicenet.com) or post general questions to RV-list & I can respond (pcondon(at)csc.com) or 609.654.9587 (don't sound like a salesman or my wife gets real nasty...) phil condon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: TEST Cards
Date: May 11, 2000
Dave and I are getting optimistic and are wondering if anyone has made up set of Test Flight Cards. We have a couple of books, but if anyone has already developed test routines it would really help. Thanks in advance, Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A (almost done wiring) Niantic, CT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bcbraem(at)home.com.with.ESMTP (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116)
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Re: TEST Cards
Charles Rowbotham wrote: > > > Dave and I are getting optimistic and are wondering if anyone has made up > set of Test Flight Cards. We have a couple of books, but if anyone has > already developed test routines it would really help. > > Thanks in advance, > > Chuck & Dave Rowbotham > RV-8A (almost done wiring) > Niantic, CT > > Chuck-- One of the best I've seen for collecting, collating and reducing flight test data is: Flight test Checklist Jerry Milek ORDER: JaviFix Trenton Centre PO Box 22092 Trenton, Ontario K8V 6S3 Canada US $11.97+s/h$2.75=$14.72 Can $17.97+3.00=$22.44 http://www.reach.net/~javifix Boyd. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: EAA Northwest Fly-in
Date: May 11, 2000
I am overwhelmed with the number of responses. Too many to response to each one so I am doing a blanket response. From the number and kind of responses it is obvious this is a great group of people. And I do intend on ramping each and every aircraft I can get to, to include notes. But that will be private information for my learning pleasure alone. In other words I want to get ideas for the future, not for the job. After talking to my wife we are going to drag the camper over there and stay at the RV camp. Hope to see everyone there. Mike Robertson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2000
From: Steven Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com>
Subject: Re: TEST Cards
On Thu, 11 May 2000, Charles Rowbotham wrote: > > Dave and I are getting optimistic and are wondering if anyone has made up > set of Test Flight Cards. We have a couple of books, but if anyone has > already developed test routines it would really help. > Go over to http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking THere is a very comprehensive test flight test plan for the KR-2. I know, I know...but it is a good flight test plan and can be updated to the RV's. Click on Chapter 11, Flying the KR and then click on Article 1, KR Test Plan. Steve Eberhart mailto:newtech(at)newtech.com THE WING FLIES! - http://www.newtech.com/nlf for info on the new, flight tested, KRnet/UIUC airfoils. Good job KRnet, you can be proud of your contribution to Sport Aviation. Special thanks to Dr. Ashok Gopalarathnam and Dr. Michael Selig for some great Sport Aviation airfoils. One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author All information, in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly food for thought requiring additional, qualified, engineering analysis. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2000
From: Doug Gray <douggray(at)ihug.com.au>
Subject: Re: OV protection w/built in regulator
> One of the simplest way to provide overvoltage protection is to use Mark > Landall's (spelling?) zener diode and fuse combination. Simple to install, > foolproof, and inexpensive. He has an ad usually in the ad section of Sport > Aviation. > > Oh how elegant.. What voltage did he recommend? I would be interested to know the device number as well. Doug Gray ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: instrument panel labeling
Hi, Two instrument panel questions: 1) Where can I find out what is required labeling and verbage on the instrument panel, i.e. breakers, switches, engine controls? 2) Does anyone know if dry transfer lettering will accept a clearcoat spray? 3) What are some other panel labeling techniques? Thanks, Glenn Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: OSH avionics specials
Hi, I am very soon to be needing avionics for my RV-6. Since I have never had to shop for avionics, I was wondering if I am likely to get any significant deals at OSH. Are they through manufacturers or distributors? Specifically I was looking for a Apollo GX65 GPS/Comm, SL70 Transponder, and an altitude encoder. Thanks, Glenn Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Windshield defroster for RV-8
Anyone know of a good source for a windshield defroster kit for an RV-8? I could probably cobble one together but times a wasting and I want to get this baby in the air... Thx, - Jim Andrews RV-8Aq ( Fuse - stuff ) Austin, Texas N89JA ( reserved ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: OV protection w/built in regulator
Date: May 11, 2000
As I recall the zener is a 15-volt unit....also, it seemed that he got around $15-20 for it...it's a very "husky" unit, probably many watts ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: instrument panel labeling
Date: May 11, 2000
A good guidline to use is FAR 23.1301. That is the guidelines that your friendly inspector will go by at final inspection. Bottom line, everything installed is supposed to be labeled. For labeling I have been using a new type label maker. The tape comes in clear, white, and some colors. Mike Robertson RV-8A >From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list >Subject: RV-List: instrument panel labeling >Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 16:21:32 -0500 > > >Hi, >Two instrument panel questions: > >1) Where can I find out what is required labeling and verbage on the >instrument panel, i.e. breakers, switches, engine controls? > >2) Does anyone know if dry transfer lettering will accept a clearcoat >spray? > >3) What are some other panel labeling techniques? > >Thanks, >Glenn Gordon > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillyRV6(at)aol.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: installing wing ribs.
I am ready to install the ribs to the spare and angles. Do I clamp the rib flange to the spare web and hope they all line up evenly on the rear spare, is shimming something that is normally done on the ribs? My conclusion is to clamp them on the spare and drill the angles and the ribs should fall in place hopefully. wondering what others have done. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Re: OSH avionics specials
In a message dated 5/11/00 5:45:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net writes: << Hi, I am very soon to be needing avionics for my RV-6. Since I have never had to shop for avionics, I was wondering if I am likely to get any significant deals at OSH. Are they through manufacturers or distributors? Specifically I was looking for a Apollo GX65 GPS/Comm, SL70 Transponder, and an altitude encoder. Thanks, Glenn Gordon >> All the big dealers offer "deals" at the big flyins.. For instance, I got my new Lightspeed 25XL's at SNF for $495, while the catalogs showed $580 +/- at that time. I've found Chief Avionics very competitive on price, with Van's usually being competitive if they carried what I want.. KB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: instrument panel labeling
> A good guidline to use is FAR 23.1301. That is the guidelines that your > friendly inspector will go by at final inspection. Bottom line, everything > installed is supposed to be labeled. > Thanks Mike, I found that FAR online. It reads as follows: Sec. 23.1301 Function and installation. Each item of installed equipment must-- (a) Be of a kind and design appropriate to its intended function. (b) Be labeled as to its identification, function, or operating limitations, or any applicable combination of these factors; (c) Be installed according to limitations specified for that equipment; and (d) Function properly when installed. [Amdt. 23-20, 42 FR 36968, July 18, 1977] It seems rather vague in its verbage. I guess I need to take trip to the airport and look at how certified aircraft manufacturers interpret the FAR. Thanks, Glenn Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Re: A-ctual VNE for the RV's?
Date: May 11, 2000
> If my RV is structurally safe up to a wing loading of 6g x gross weight, and > by some miracle I shave its weight down to half of gross, is it not now able > to take the stress of 12 g's (simplisticly assuming all the weight to be > centered in the fuselage and none in the wings)? Same weight / force is > experienced by the spar either way. If so, why are we told that " Va > decreases as weight decreases." ??? Never understood this... "g" is not a > unit of weight, neither is 6g's... g times (aircraft weight) is a unit of > weight, and weight, it seems, is what breaks airplanes before they stall. Your plane is not safe up to 6g's at gross weight, only aerobatic max. weight within weight/balance limits... For airplanes with increasing Va with increasing weight, some structure other than the wings is the limiting factor in that particular situation (motor mount, tail, etc.). In other words, the lighter plane will develop more G loading at max lift than the heavy airplane, even though the wings are stressed the same. The motor mount only senses G loading, while the wings don't care directly about G loading, only the angle of attack and airspeed. You are right that the wings, for a given airspeed, develop the same max lift just prior to stall angle of attack regardless of how heavy the plane is. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Re: instrument panel labeling
>For labeling I have been using a new type label maker. The tape comes in >clear, white, and some colors. >Mike Robertson >RV-8A Mike, What kind of label maker is that? It sounds idea for quick panel marking. - Jim Andrews RV-8Aq ( fuse - stuff ) Austin, Texas N89JA ( reserved ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: OSH avionics specials
> > > Try Vans. > > Page 22 of the new catalog shows most of the Apollo stuff. At the top of the > page they claim to be able to supply any thing from UPS Aviation > Technologies. They list no prices, send them your query by email. Thanks Norman, I called Van's last week and spoke with Tom. They did have some great prices on the avionics. He however admitted that their ability to make up wiring harnesses went with the passing of Ken. -Glenn Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: instrument panel labeling
Date: May 11, 2000
I used the dry-transfer letters and then sprayed a clear coat over them on my Bellanca. It works very nice when you want to run the label around instead of straight. As Mike pointed out, there are some nice labeling machines as well. I have a Brother P-touch and you can use various width tapes, and make various size letters. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn & Judi" <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 4:21 PM Subject: RV-List: instrument panel labeling > > Hi, > Two instrument panel questions: > > 1) Where can I find out what is required labeling and verbage on the > instrument panel, i.e. breakers, switches, engine controls? > > 2) Does anyone know if dry transfer lettering will accept a clearcoat > spray? > > 3) What are some other panel labeling techniques? > > Thanks, > Glenn Gordon > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Windshield defroster for RV-8
Date: May 11, 2000
> >Anyone know of a good source for a windshield defroster kit for an RV-8? >I could probably cobble one together but times a wasting and I want to get >this >baby in the air... > >Thx, > >- Jim Andrews >RV-8Aq ( Fuse - stuff ) >Austin, Texas >N89JA ( reserved ) > How 'bout a 12V powered travel hair dryer? Should keep the windshield clear and would allow hairdo touchups before arrival. OK, maybe not. *rimshot* I've heard of some folks cutting a slot or two in the glareshield skin just inside the windscreen and then mounting a small muffin fan horizontally behind the instruments and right under the slot(s). You would simply open up the cabin heat door and activate the fan to pull warm air up through the fan and through the slots. Sounds like a relatively simple setup. I haven't found any need for defrost yet, even up at 15,000' on a rather wet winter day. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD grounded due to 50mph gusts! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Wiza" <planejoe(at)ewol.com>
Subject: Re: Windshield defroster for RV-8
Date: May 11, 2000
Bought a 12 volt fan from radio shack for a few bucks, cut a hole about 3" in dia about 4 " from the leading edge of the windshield. Works great provided you the the cabin heat coming in at the firewall. RV6A 100 hrs in 6 months still ok ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 5:25 PM Subject: RV-List: Windshield defroster for RV-8 > > > Anyone know of a good source for a windshield defroster kit for an RV-8? > I could probably cobble one together but times a wasting and I want to get this > baby in the air... > > Thx, > > - Jim Andrews > RV-8Aq ( Fuse - stuff ) > Austin, Texas > N89JA ( reserved ) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cecilth(at)juno.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Van's new general manager
I want to congratulate Tom Green at Vans, not part time any longer. A full fledged General Manager of Vans Aircraft. I'm sure many of you, like me, got advice from Tom down thru the years, when we had problems reading the plans, etc. Congratulations Tom Cecil Hatfield ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JDaniel343(at)aol.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Re: installing wing ribs.
I have a prepunched kit. I laid out the wing skins on a bench then placed the spar in the correct position on the skins. Because of the prepunched holes I now knew where to place each rib. I then marked the spar according to the prepunch mark. If you think the ribs are different lengths and need to adjust the flanges just take one rib and check its length with all the other ribs using your bench as a false spar. I don't think you'll have any trouble with rib lengths thou. John Danielson Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: OSH avionics specials
> Ooops! I apologize, I meant Bill. No disrespect meant. -Glenn Gordon > Thanks Norman, > I called Van's last week and spoke with Tom. They did have some great prices on > the avionics. He however admitted that their ability to make up wiring > harnesses went with the passing of Ken. > > -Glenn Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: instrument panel labeling
Date: May 11, 2000
I bought it at Radio Shack, but th elabel tape is a generic kind that I have been able to but at Office Depost and other places. >From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: instrument panel labeling >Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:48:19 -0500 > > > >For labeling I have been using a new type label maker. The tape comes in > >clear, white, and some colors. > > >Mike Robertson > >RV-8A > >Mike, > >What kind of label maker is that? It sounds idea for quick panel marking. > >- Jim Andrews >RV-8Aq ( fuse - stuff ) >Austin, Texas >N89JA ( reserved ) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: instrument panel labeling
Date: May 11, 2000
Glenn, Like I said before everything has to be label as to what it is and which way is on/off. For example, the master switch should have the word "Master" either above, below or beside it, and "on". It is standard practice for all switches to be up or outboard for "on" but that is by no means set in concrete. As long as it is labeled for purposed and On/Off then that is all that is needed. All your gages now must be labeled with limits and common practice is for those labels to be on the gage itself but again that is not set in concrete for our aircraft. The limits could be...say... on a placard next to the gage. But that may take a bit of convincing to you local inspector and you may not want to go through the hassle. Everyone I have seen has put the limits right on the gage with either a stick-on decal or paint. My best advice is to get with your local Tech Counselor as he/she will know what is required and also how your local FAA type is. Mike >From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: instrument panel labeling >Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:35:57 -0500 > > > > A good guidline to use is FAR 23.1301. That is the guidelines that your > > friendly inspector will go by at final inspection. Bottom line, >everything > > installed is supposed to be labeled. > > > >Thanks Mike, >I found that FAR online. It reads as follows: > > >Sec. 23.1301 Function and installation. > >Each item of installed equipment must-- >(a) Be of a kind and design appropriate to its intended function. >(b) Be labeled as to its identification, function, or operating >limitations, or any applicable combination of these factors; >(c) Be installed according to limitations specified for that equipment; and >(d) Function properly when installed. > >[Amdt. 23-20, 42 FR 36968, July 18, 1977] > > >It seems rather vague in its verbage. I guess I need to take trip to the >airport and look at how certified aircraft manufacturers interpret the FAR. > >Thanks, >Glenn Gordon > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2000
From: Scott Haskins <scott_haskins(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Mustang II - (rv6)?
All, I have been watching the list for quite some time trying to decide on a model. I thought I was ready for a 6A till I ran across the Mustang 2 (www.mustangaero.com). It looks like a 6 and has a slightly higher cruise speed. I also noticed that the stall speed is a little higher. The kicker...the mustang quickbuild is $10,795, while the 6a qb is $21,643 (with a 6 month backlog). What am I missing? I am not real knowledgable about either one, yet I understand a $10000 difference on two "seemingly" similar airplanes? Any thoughts? Thanks, Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2000
From: "Mike Wills" <willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: OV protection w/built in regulator
> > > One of the simplest way to provide overvoltage protection is to use Mark > > Landall's (spelling?) zener diode and fuse combination. Simple to install, > > foolproof, and inexpensive. He has an ad usually in the ad section of Sport > > Aviation. > > > > >Oh how elegant.. > >What voltage did he recommend? I would be interested to know the device >number as well. > >Doug Gray I assume that electric Bob will jump in here and point out that a simple zener diode will respond to short duration transients on the bus that are not necessarily indicative of a regulator runaway. The design that Bob has for OVP is relatively simple, relatively inexpensive, and is designed to respond only to true runaway conditions and ignore transients of shorter duration. I just read this chapter in the Aeroelectric connection last nite. Regarding the earlier question about OVP for internal regulators, Bob is there a relatively easy way to convert to an external regulator (in my case the alternator I think is a Mitsubishi unit which came with the Mazda engine I'm using)? Is this a recommended approach or would you stick to the internal regulator/over-voltage relay depicted on your website? If converting to an external regulator can you recommend one? I'm reliant on electrical power for ignition and fuel injection so reliability is a major concern. Mike Wills RV4 engine stuff (Mazda 13B) willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Re: Van's new general manager
From: "Shelby Smith" <shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com>
Excellent! I am one of many Tom has helped. I guess everyone saw the Stoddard_Hamilton announcement. It's not an easy deal. -- Shelby Smith shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com RV6A - Skinning Fuselage - 200HP N95EB - reserved ---------- >From: cecilth(at)juno.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Van's new general manager >Date: Thu, May 11, 2000, 6:20 PM > > Congratulations Tom ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Mustang II - (rv6)?
Date: May 11, 2000
Scott, I know very little about Mustangs 1 & 2 so here it is. They were 9are0 built to be racers & they have a thin wing. The wing stalls abruptly. For example, the Mustang 1 across the hangar from my -6 was flown for its first loop. Just going past vertical, the plane snapped. Then a Mustang 2 was just sold here last month. The new owner was getting checked out in it & they were doing wing overs. That plane also abruptly snapped. Guess its the thin wing. My -6 has never given any surprises yet for this rookie pilot. Rick Caldwell -6 53 hrs Melbourne, Fl >From: Scott Haskins <scott_haskins(at)yahoo.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Mustang II - (rv6)? >Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:28:43 -0700 (PDT) > > >All, > >I have been watching the list for quite some time >trying to decide on a model. I thought I was ready >for a 6A till I ran across the Mustang 2 >(www.mustangaero.com). It looks like a 6 and has a >slightly higher cruise speed. I also noticed that the >stall speed is a little higher. The kicker...the >mustang quickbuild is $10,795, while the 6a qb is >$21,643 (with a 6 month backlog). What am I missing? >I am not real knowledgable about either one, yet I >understand a $10000 difference on two "seemingly" >similar airplanes? Any thoughts? > >Thanks, > >Scott > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2000
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: instrument panel labeling
Mike Robertson wrote: > > > Glenn, > > Like I said before everything has to be label as to what it is and which way > is on/off. For example, the master switch should have the word "Master" > either above, below or beside it, and "on". It is standard practice for > all switches to be up or outboard for "on" but that is by no means set in > concrete. As long as it is labeled for purposed and On/Off then that is all > that is needed. > All your gages now must be labeled with limits and common practice is for > those labels to be on the gage itself but again that is not set in concrete > for our aircraft. The limits could be...say... on a placard next to the > gage. But that may take a bit of convincing to you local inspector and you > may not want to go through the hassle. Everyone I have seen has put the > limits right on the gage with either a stick-on decal or paint. My best > advice is to get with your local Tech Counselor as he/she will know what is > required and also how your local FAA type is. Have any of the RMI uMonitor (and other brands, as well) users received a hassle from the Feds about having to put redlines on the electronic engine instruments? My plane was the first all-electronic panel my DAR had ever seen. Sam Buchanan http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillyRV6(at)aol.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Re: installing wing ribs.
Sorry I didn't explain my self clearly it 's not the length of the ribs that concerns me. When you attach the ribs to the main spare will they all line up evenly to the rear spares top or bottom of the wing. If one of the rib is off and you pull it to line up with the rear spare, it will twist the main spare. This might not be a problem you probably just clamp the ribs to the spare and they line up with the rear spare. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bob DiMeo - Oracle <dimeob(at)powertel.com.au>
Subject: Mustang II - (rv6)?
Date: May 12, 2000
Scott, Aside for looking at thinks like who the designer is, how long has the design been in the field, how many have been built, can you get a ride in one before you plunk down the hard earned cash, etc, you should find out what the completely fit up cost is. Not all "quick builds" are the same. If I just look at the plain ol' RV kit compared to what you get from most kit manufactures, you could call IT a quick build. My 2 cents. Bob RV8 #423 (plain ol' kit!) > ---------- > From: Scott Haskins[SMTP:scott_haskins(at)yahoo.com] > Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Friday, 12 May 2000 10:28 > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Mustang II - (rv6)? > > > All, > > I have been watching the list for quite some time > trying to decide on a model. I thought I was ready > for a 6A till I ran across the Mustang 2 > (www.mustangaero.com). It looks like a 6 and has a > slightly higher cruise speed. I also noticed that the > stall speed is a little higher. The kicker...the > mustang quickbuild is $10,795, while the 6a qb is > $21,643 (with a 6 month backlog). What am I missing? > I am not real knowledgable about either one, yet I > understand a $10000 difference on two "seemingly" > similar airplanes? Any thoughts? > > Thanks, > > Scott > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ERSF2B(at)aol.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: RV-8 #80620 flies
I flew RV-8 #80620 (N624S) today for 40 minutes. Too busy learning and scanning to write down any numbers. But..... what a trip, this is one HOT aeroplane. Got in two landings. Ed Storo RV-8 ( Joe Spence flew his RV-8 last sunday, has 6 hours as of today) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harvey Sigmon" <flyhars(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Mustang II - (rv6)?
Date: May 11, 2000
Listers: My first home built was a MII, with the laminar flow wing it had a rather strange stall characteristic. It would initially stall like a RV with a little shake. I had to install stall strips about 18" long on both wings. I did this after it scared the hell out of me during stall test. It was quite docile if you don't let it go into a deep stall. If you would hold it into a deep stall it would break and wanted to roll over on its back and fall for a while before starting to fly again. But you must understand they were no kits like we have these days. I am on my second RV-6, super airplanes, and there is no comparison, but that is my 2 cents worth. and my view only. Hope this helps. Harvey Sigmon RV-6AQB- Installing electric stuff > [Original Message] > From: Rick Caldwell <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> > To: > Date: 5/11/00 9:11:40 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Mustang II - (rv6)? > > > > Scott, I know very little about Mustangs 1 & 2 so here it is. They were > 9are0 built to be racers & they have a thin wing. The wing stalls abruptly. > For example, the Mustang 1 across the hangar from my -6 was flown for its > first loop. Just going past vertical, the plane snapped. Then a Mustang 2 > was just sold here last month. The new owner was getting checked out in it > & they were doing wing overs. That plane also abruptly snapped. Guess its > the thin wing. My -6 has never given any surprises yet for this rookie > pilot. > > Rick Caldwell > -6 53 hrs Melbourne, Fl > > >From: Scott Haskins <scott_haskins(at)yahoo.com> > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: RV-List: Mustang II - (rv6)? > >Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:28:43 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > >All, > > > >I have been watching the list for quite some time > >trying to decide on a model. I thought I was ready > >for a 6A till I ran across the Mustang 2 > >(www.mustangaero.com). It looks like a 6 and has a > >slightly higher cruise speed. I also noticed that the > >stall speed is a little higher. The kicker...the > >mustang quickbuild is $10,795, while the 6a qb is > >$21,643 (with a 6 month backlog). What am I missing? > >I am not real knowledgable about either one, yet I > >understand a $10000 difference on two "seemingly" > >similar airplanes? Any thoughts? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Scott > > > > > > > > > --- Harvey Sigmon --- flyhars(at)earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)aol.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Re: OSH avionics specials
In a message dated 5/11/2000 5:35:42 PM Central Daylight Time, nhunger(at)sprint.ca writes: << > Specifically I was looking for a Apollo GX65 GPS/Comm, SL70 Transponder, > and an altitude encoder. > >> One thing to keep in mind is Gulf Coast will beat any price out there that they can confirm. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Mustang II - (rv6)?
Date: May 11, 2000
Scott, I considered at one time the Glassair series. There were many factors which made me go for the RV-8, but one was the support and stability of the company. I know that any spares built out of aluminium can be fabricated somehow, so that makes the dependency on the company less than if the plane were fiberglass, but I still think the solidarity of Van's has to be considered in light of the announcement that Stoddard-Hamilton just went bankrupt. Steve Johnson RV-8 #80121 ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Haskins <scott_haskins(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 7:28 PM Subject: RV-List: Mustang II - (rv6)? > > All, > > I have been watching the list for quite some time > trying to decide on a model. I thought I was ready > for a 6A till I ran across the Mustang 2 > (www.mustangaero.com). It looks like a 6 and has a > slightly higher cruise speed. I also noticed that the > stall speed is a little higher. The kicker...the > mustang quickbuild is $10,795, while the 6a qb is > $21,643 (with a 6 month backlog). What am I missing? > I am not real knowledgable about either one, yet I > understand a $10000 difference on two "seemingly" > similar airplanes? Any thoughts? > > Thanks, > > Scott > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bobpaulo(at)aol.com
Date: May 12, 2000
Subject: rudder rib/horn rivet question
in drilling the bottom rudder rib to spar i have a hole(cener) to edge of less than 2x. instead of 8/32 i have 6/32 on all four holes. remember this rib is sandwiched in between the rudder horn and the horn helps cover the rib flange. order another or go ahead????????????????????? if it was not sandwiched between the rudder horn and spar i would redo but this case is a little different with the help of the horn. thanx guys, bob paulovich in arkansas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bobpaulo(at)aol.com
Date: May 12, 2000
Subject: rudder rib/horn rivet question
i re-looked and measured. the holes in that bottom spar are already pre drilled. there is no way it can be 2x because the rib flange is not wide enough. i guess this is a case that the 2x rule a no go??? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Connell" <james_connell(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Mustang II - (rv6)?
Date: May 12, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Haskins <scott_haskins(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 10:28 AM Subject: RV-List: Mustang II - (rv6)? > > All, > > I have been watching the list for quite some time > trying to decide on a model. I thought I was ready > for a 6A till I ran across the Mustang 2 > (www.mustangaero.com). It looks like a 6 and has a > slightly higher cruise speed. I also noticed that the > stall speed is a little higher. The kicker...the > mustang quickbuild is $10,795, while the 6a qb is > $21,643 (with a 6 month backlog). What am I missing? > I am not real knowledgable about either one, yet I > understand a $10000 difference on two "seemingly" > similar airplanes? Any thoughts? > > Thanks, > > Scott > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Brewster" <kevin(at)synelec.com.au>
Subject: Re: Mustang II - (rv6)?
Date: May 12, 2000
Hi Scott, The Mustang-II quickbuild kit is nowhere near as complete as the RV6-QB. My understanding is that it is basically the same as the standard airframe kit, but with all the welding & prefab spar options included and wings completed "ready to close". The fuselage is as per the standard kit. What Mustang Aeronautics calls the "complete airframe kit" does not include things such as canopy, engine mount, cowling, fibreglass fairings etc. (although these "finish kit" type items are available individually). I believe both aircraft would cost about the same to build from "standard" kits. M-II kits have only been available relatively recently, and most so flying examples have been scratch-built. The tight leading edge radius on the Mustang's wing is apparently hard to form by hand, and there is a lot of variation in stall-characteristics among these planes. Apparently (according to Mustang Aero) the pre-formed leading edge skins in the kits improve low speed performance considerably. I think they are both great aircraft, and the decision really comes down to personal preference. One factor which may be important to you is that the RV6 has a lot more luggage space than the M-II. I was torn between the two for many months until recently deciding on the Mustang. My personal reasons are: 1. I think a well built M-II can look better than an RV6. There are a lot of RV's down here, and they all look very good. If I built one, it would just be another good looking RV. If I build a good Mustang, it will also look very nice, without being just "another nice RV". (No offence) 2. The Mustang is slightly faster (Vne 200kt / 230mph), and slightly stronger (+/- 6G). It does stall slightly faster, but I am hoping by building light, not much. It is still capable of takeoff / landing distances <500ft. 3. The Mustang has the potential for retractable gear. 4. Someone else in my area is also planning on building one. 5. My dad owns one, so I am familiar with the type. In a different situation, I could easily have chosen the RV6 instead. I hope no-one takes offence at my pro-Mustang opinion on this list. They are similar aircraft and this list is a great learning resource for me. If it weren't for RV's I wouldn't be anywhere near as ready to start construction of any sort of plane! Have fun making your own choices! Regards, Kevin Brewster, Australia (M-II flap kit just started) ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Haskins <scott_haskins(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, 12 May, 2000 10:28 Subject: RV-List: Mustang II - (rv6)? > > All, > > I have been watching the list for quite some time > trying to decide on a model. I thought I was ready > for a 6A till I ran across the Mustang 2 > (www.mustangaero.com). It looks like a 6 and has a > slightly higher cruise speed. I also noticed that the > stall speed is a little higher. The kicker...the > mustang quickbuild is $10,795, while the 6a qb is > $21,643 (with a 6 month backlog). What am I missing? > I am not real knowledgable about either one, yet I > understand a $10000 difference on two "seemingly" > similar airplanes? Any thoughts? > > Thanks, > > Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2000
From: jaugilas <jaugilas(at)allways.net>
Subject: Re: Windshield defroster for RV-8
J.C. Whitney used to sell a 12 volt stand alone heater/blower defroster. It was small and cheap, but could be used as an organ donor to build a sturdier metal built in unit of some sort. Bill Jaugilas Northern Illinos Mountian Rescue Team Lemont Illinois Brian Denk wrote: > > > > >Anyone know of a good source for a windshield defroster kit for an RV-8? > >I could probably cobble one together but times a wasting and I want to get > >this > >baby in the air... > > > >Thx, > > > >- Jim Andrews > >RV-8Aq ( Fuse - stuff ) > >Austin, Texas > >N89JA ( reserved ) > > > How 'bout a 12V powered travel hair dryer? Should keep the windshield clear > and would allow hairdo touchups before arrival. > > OK, maybe not. *rimshot* > > I've heard of some folks cutting a slot or two in the glareshield skin just > inside the windscreen and then mounting a small muffin fan horizontally > behind the instruments and right under the slot(s). You would simply open > up the cabin heat door and activate the fan to pull warm air up through the > fan and through the slots. Sounds like a relatively simple setup. I haven't > found any need for defrost yet, even up at 15,000' on a rather wet winter > day. > > Brian Denk > RV8 N94BD > grounded due to 50mph gusts! > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)ispchannel.com>
Subject: Re: instrument panel labeling
Date: May 12, 2000
> Have any of the RMI uMonitor (and other brands, as well) users received > a hassle from the Feds about having to put redlines on the electronic > engine instruments? My plane was the first all-electronic panel my DAR > had ever seen. > > Sam Buchanan > http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal I had an EIS unit on my previous plane (a Kolb SlingShot), and the DAR didn't quite know what to do about the markings. I explained that the limits were marked by way of the alarm set-points, and he accepted that. At worst, you'd have to placard the limits somewhere. In a few weeks, I'll have the same DAR inspecting my RV-8 with an RMI micromonitor, so we'll see how it goes this time. Russell Duffy Navarre, FL RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (wings on permanently this weekend) PS- Congrats to Ed and Joe on their recent RV-8 flights! Sounds like there's going to be a lot of this in the very near future. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nancy and Walter Shipley" <wshipley(at)esper.com>
Subject: Mustang II - (rv6)?
Date: May 12, 2000
Scott, you may also want to consider not just the merits of the two aircraft but the companies behind them. One of the primary reasons I chose the RV8A was the fact that Van's has been in business 25 years and has over 2,000 of their airplanes flying. In my view, Van's, while certainly not perfect, is still the class act in terms of future business viability, support, readiness to make needed changes, etc. Just my 2c worth! Walt Shipley RV8A QB N314TS (R) Fuselage/Finish ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nancy and Walter Shipley" <wshipley(at)esper.com>
Subject: Aileron Stops
Date: May 12, 2000
Regarding the discussion of aileron stops, I have found that my aileron "up" travel is slightly over the 32 deg maximum specification in section 15(?) of the manual. Likewise, my "down" aileron travel is beyond the 17 degree maximum allowable. Am I correct in thinking that installing stops to bring "up" travel within specs will automatically take care of excessive "down" aileron travel? (One lister indicated this was the case in the archives). Walt Shipley RV8A QB N314TS (R) Fuselage/Finish ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Karl Schilling <k_schilling(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Mustang II - (rv6)?
Date: May 12, 2000
please go look at what they call a quick build. no where close to what you get from Van's! -----Original Message----- From: Scott Haskins [SMTP:scott_haskins(at)yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 07:29 Subject: RV-List: Mustang II - (rv6)? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cecilth(at)juno.com
Date: May 11, 2000
Subject: Re: OSH avionics specials
When I bought my GX-65 right after it came out in 1998, I shopped around and then called Vans, and they had the best price by about $150. As I remember I got it for about $2600 or 2700. Today I got the new Chief catalog and they have it for $2900. On the back cover they talk about it being the latest and best etc. Cecil Hatfield > >In a message dated 5/11/00 5:45:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net writes: > ><< > Hi, > > I am very soon to be needing avionics for my RV-6. Since I have >never > had to shop for avionics, I was wondering if I am likely to get any > significant deals at OSH. Are they through manufacturers or > distributors? > > Specifically I was looking for a Apollo GX65 GPS/Comm, SL70 >Transponder, > and an altitude encoder. > > Thanks, > Glenn Gordon >> > >All the big dealers offer "deals" at the big flyins.. For instance, I >got my >new Lightspeed 25XL's at SNF for $495, while the catalogs showed $580 >+/- at >that time. I've found Chief Avionics very competitive on price, with >Van's >usually being competitive if they carried what I want.. > >KB > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Re: instrument panel labeling
Date: May 12, 2000
I used decal paper and an ALPS MD-1600 printer on my personal computer and made my own custom decals. Looks just like silk screening. Durability is still a question which I hope to answer over the next few years. Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 "FAA Inspection Next Week" ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 4:21 PM Subject: RV-List: instrument panel labeling > > Hi, > Two instrument panel questions: > > 1) Where can I find out what is required labeling and verbage on the > instrument panel, i.e. breakers, switches, engine controls? > > 2) Does anyone know if dry transfer lettering will accept a clearcoat > spray? > > 3) What are some other panel labeling techniques? > > Thanks, > Glenn Gordon > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aileron Stops
Date: May 12, 2000
From: Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
>Am I correct in thinking that installing stops to bring "up" travel within >specs will automatically take care of excessive "down" aileron travel? (One >lister indicated this was the case in the archives). > Yes Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Japundza, Bob" <bjapundza(at)dowagro.com>
Subject: installing wing ribs.
Date: May 12, 2000
Billy, I think what your worried about is drilling the rib reinforcing angles off and causing misalignment at the trailing edge of the wing rib. The best way I found (on my -6 non-prepunched kit) to ensure accuracy in this regard was to drill the ribs to the spar, drill all the holes in the reinforcing angles and bolt them on, but not drill them to the ribs until the wing was lined up in the jig with the rear spar clecoed on. After everything is lined up you can drill the angles to the ribs and have no worries about them being out of whack. I used the same reasoning on the leading edge ribs also, not drilling the ribs/angles together until I was positive everything was plumb and square. By the way, I clecoed everything together during construction, took everything apart, deburred, dimpled, primed then riveted. I did no riveting until the very end and everything worked out great...much easier IMO than riveting things as I went along, which I did on the first wing. Bob Japundza RV-6 flying in June sometime > I am ready to install the ribs to the spare and angles. Do I clamp the rib >flange to the spare web and hope they all line up evenly on the rear spare, >is shimming something that is normally done on the ribs? My conclusion is to >clamp them on the spare and drill the angles and the ribs should fall in >place hopefully. wondering what others have done. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: May 12, 2000
Subject: Re: Aileron Stops
Yes(sorta) , as long as all the push tubes stay in place. It depends on the geometey of the bellcranks and the length of the push tube on the ailron. I have stops installed as per the factory plans. wshipley(at)esper.com on 05/12/2000 08:26:30 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Aileron Stops Regarding the discussion of aileron stops, I have found that my aileron "up" travel is slightly over the 32 deg maximum specification in section 15(?) of the manual. Likewise, my "down" aileron travel is beyond the 17 degree maximum allowable. Am I correct in thinking that installing stops to bring "up" travel within specs will automatically take care of excessive "down" aileron travel? (One lister indicated this was the case in the archives). Walt Shipley RV8A QB N314TS (R) Fuselage/Finish ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)aol.com
Date: May 12, 2000
Subject: Re: OSH avionics specials
In a message dated 5/12/2000 9:03:06 AM Central Daylight Time, cecilth(at)juno.com writes: << When I bought my GX-65 right after it came out in 1998, I shopped around and then called Vans, and they had the best price by about $150. As I remember I got it for about $2600 or 2700. Today I got the new Chief catalog and they have it for $2900. On the back cover they talk about it being the latest and best etc. Cecil Hatfield >> Actually they say its the best, but they also say they introduced it at EAA in oshkosh in 1998. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Windshield defroster for RV-8
Date: May 12, 2000
How do you "rescue a mountain"???? IN Illinois, yet???? Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaugilas" <jaugilas(at)allways.net> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 6:42 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Windshield defroster for RV-8 > > J.C. Whitney used to sell a 12 volt stand alone heater/blower defroster. It was > small and cheap, but could be used as an organ donor to build a sturdier metal > built in unit of some sort. > > Bill Jaugilas > Northern Illinos Mountian Rescue Team > Lemont Illinois > > > Brian Denk wrote: > > > > > > > > >Anyone know of a good source for a windshield defroster kit for an RV-8? > > >I could probably cobble one together but times a wasting and I want to get > > >this > > >baby in the air... > > > > > >Thx, > > > > > >- Jim Andrews > > >RV-8Aq ( Fuse - stuff ) > > >Austin, Texas > > >N89JA ( reserved ) > > > > > How 'bout a 12V powered travel hair dryer? Should keep the windshield clear > > and would allow hairdo touchups before arrival. > > > > OK, maybe not. *rimshot* > > > > I've heard of some folks cutting a slot or two in the glareshield skin just > > inside the windscreen and then mounting a small muffin fan horizontally > > behind the instruments and right under the slot(s). You would simply open > > up the cabin heat door and activate the fan to pull warm air up through the > > fan and through the slots. Sounds like a relatively simple setup. I haven't > > found any need for defrost yet, even up at 15,000' on a rather wet winter > > day. > > > > Brian Denk > > RV8 N94BD > > grounded due to 50mph gusts! > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: May 12, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-8 #80620 flies
>I flew RV-8 #80620 (N624S) today for 40 minutes. Too busy learning and >scanning to write down any numbers. But..... what a trip, this is one HOT >aeroplane. Got in two landings. Congratulations Ed!!! What did it feel like? Details PLEASE!!!... for those of us in your wake :-) - Jim RV-8Aq ( fuse - stuff ) N89JA (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
Subject: RV-8 Forced Landing
Date: May 12, 2000
I'm sorry to hear of the damage. Glad it wasn't worse. Anyone know anything more specific about the gear failure (broken attachment fasteners, ldg gear boxes pulled out of the fuselage, gear leg bent, etc...). Knowing how robust the gear on the -8 are might help in choosing the best surface (if possible!) in a similar landing situation. How about the fuel smell? NTSB Identification: SEA00LA084 Accident occurred MAY-07-00 at INDEPENDENCE, OR Aircraft: OVEROSS VANS RV-8, registration: N998TT Injuries: 1 Uninjured. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On May 7, 2000, approximately 0800 Pacific daylight time, a homebuilt Oveross model Vans RV-8, N998TT, was substantially damaged when the landing gear collapsed during a forced landing immediately after takeoff at the Independence State airport, Independence, Oregon. The pilot was uninjured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plan had been filed. The flight, which was personal, was to have been operated under 14CFR91, and was local. The pilot reported that he took off on runway 34 and immediately after breaking ground detected a strong odor of fuel in the cockpit. He initiated a left turn during which the engine began to run rough. Shortly thereafter all engine power was lost and the pilot executed a forced landing slightly northwest of the airport. During the landing roll the fixed main landing gear collapsed. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com
Date: May 12, 2000
Subject: Re: Trouble linking to URLs
In a message dated 5/7/00 12:38:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, daronson(at)cwnet.com writes: > Is anyone else having trouble linking up with aeroelectric or > aamrelectric sites? > > Dave Aronson Hello Listers: My apologizes for not paying more attention. Our site has been down and I was out of town dealing with a family tragedy and could not fix it from where I was. Regards, John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar ineCore (Chick the blue link to go there) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Website forms mailer back up . . .
Our website is back up using a generic forms mailer that came with the original configuration. I seem to have been swallowed up in the policies and procedures swamp at my host's offices. Couldn't get an expert to look at the problem until a form had been filled out and dropped on somebody's desk; a day later expert takes a peek and then phones me at the wrong number to leave voicemail on quote to fix; a day later expert is out for the day; etc. etc. Gave up and went back to square one. In any case, the system is functioning as of this hour. I'm really warming to the idea of having my site-server site in dedicated hardware right in my office . . . we'll have DSL in our neighborhood this fall so that just might be the ultimate solution. Thanks to everyone for their patience. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) ( still understand knothing. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Elrod3794(at)aol.com
Date: May 12, 2000
Subject: Website forms mailer back up . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: May 12, 2000
Subject: Re: rudder rib/horn rivet question
In a message dated 5/11/00 10:39:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Bobpaulo(at)aol.com writes: << instead of 8/32 i have 6/32 on all four holes >> A long time ago I called Van's with a similiar concern, although on a different part. They (I've forgotten who it was) told me that as long as there was enough edge distance so that the hole did not bulge out when the rivet is squeezed it was ok. He added that if I was really concerned I could add several rivets in between with adequate edge distance. I have followed that guidance since. Harry Crosby -6 finish kit stuff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Site update, new domain
Date: May 12, 2000
Gang, Just wanted to let you know that I've updated my site by adding a couple of pages and updating a few others. The FWF page is new, you might find details of my fuel system interesting also. There have also been additions to the Plenum/Cowl page and the Battery page for those of you interested. Lastly, I have a new domain and url... www.rv-8.com. Very imaginative, huh? If you would like to visit the site again you might want to remember to change your Favorites or Bookmarks. Oh, my e-mail address has changed too to randy@rv-8.com. Blue skies, Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500, N558RL, plenum/baffling, soon to mount prop www.rv-8.com Home Wing VAF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Site update, new domain
Date: May 12, 2000
Gang, Just wanted to let you know that I've updated my site by adding a couple of pages and updating a few others. The FWF page is new, you might find details of my fuel system interesting also. There have also been additions to the Plenum/Cowl page and the Battery page for those of you interested. Lastly, I have a new domain and url... www.rv-8.com. Very imaginative, huh? If you would like to visit the site again you might want to remember to change your Favorites or Bookmarks. Oh, my e-mail address has changed too to randy@rv-8.com. Blue skies, Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500, N558RL, plenum/baffling, soon to mount prop www.rv-8.com Home Wing VAF ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2000
From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Tank dies
Just when I thought I had every possible tool (yeah, right) for building an RV, I learn about tank dies. Do most builders use them, or will regular dimple dies work just fine for building your tanks? If you start with regular dies and don't like the results, can you re-dimple the tank skins with tank dies? Mark Schrimmer RV-9A Irvine, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2000
From: Ronen Yehiav <yron(at)isdn.net.il>
Subject: Re: Results (?) Prop tape flap
Ohhh... So many questions, so little time and space,,, P-Condon? Is that how I should refer to you? I'll try... | | | I may have forgotten my prop 101 but isn't a overpitched prop a prop that has |to much bite for the (torque/rpm/engine health/displacement) of the engine ? What does it mean "too much bite?" Do engines have jaw muscles? Do engines chew? And what's engine health got to do with that? What is that "bite", anyway??? |What does stalling(of the prob blade...being a airfoil) have to do with prop |overpitch ??? Well, prop is, after all, comprised of a set of airfoils in an airflow. The fact that the airflow rotates, does add complications, but does not change the basic physics... And, airfoils in an airflow do (sometimes) stall... |Is the gentleman I guess that is me, right? In fact, my Ex used to say I was TOO gentle, and I'm a "he", so I guess that's OK by me... | referring to boundry layer dynamics everything that has any hint of an airflow around it, has a boundary layer. Boundary layer, being a physical entity, does have dynamics... simular to |what the VG (vortex generators) do ? If so, isn't that at the slow range of |effective use of the air foil not at the fast end of the effective use of the |airfoil. What VG do have no relation to airspeed. | Surely the reynolds number dosen't effect the airfoil at this |dimention............ In fact, most of the prop flies at a much lower reinolds number than the wings... | Ronen. | |yron(at)isdn.net.il on 05/11/2000 03:14:54 AM | |Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com | |To: rv-list(at)matronics.com | |Subject: Re: RV-List: Results (?) | | | |One suggestion (IMHO, FWIW, and its ONLY an opinion, from far, |far away, you being a lawyer and all...): |Your prop is over - pitched! | |So, even regularly, you ran too high AoA on the prop, and parts |of it were stalled - that's why there was much drag, and the |rev's wouldn't go up. | |Now, you applied the tape. Probably, if everything was OK at |the beginning, you would have gotten less departure on parts of |the airfoil of the prop, slightly MORE torque (funny, but - in |props - some times detached flow creates less drag than |turbulent, attached flow...). | |However, since the prop is overpitched, parts of it reached full |stall - less torque, less thrust, and higher revs... |What do you think? | |Ronen. | |-----Original Message----- |From: John <fasching(at)amigo.net> |To: dimpletape(at)aol.com |Date: Thursday, May 11, 2000 4:36 AM |Subject: RV-List: Results (?) | | || ||I noticed your ad in the current issue of Sport Aviation, and |carefully read ||your web page information. I had earlier obtained a copy of |your patent from ||the Patent Office, and purchased Dimple Tape for my RV6A. || ||The results were extremely disappointing. I have a 160HP |Lycoming driving a ||wood prop (Warnke) and normally the prop limits the engine |speed to 2,550RPM ||(on a 'good day.') The normal cruise RPM is 2,300 and that |produces 175MPH ||TAS, day in and day out. Maximum speed in level flight with |half fuel, at ||8,000FT density altitude; best ever= 210MPH TAS. || ||WITH the dimple tape, engine RPM ran up to 2,800 and was |willing to go ||higher (red line is 2,700RPM.) At this high RPM the TAS |DROPPED to 135MPH ||TAS. Slower RPM settings produced proportionally lower air |speeds. No ||combination of altitude or engine settings resulted in anything |but VERY ||degraded performance. || ||I applied the tape precisely per your directions. || ||I removed it, and consider it a danger to the engine and the |performance of ||the airplane. || ||Comments? (PS I am also an attorney and electronics engineer.) || ||RV6A ||Salida, CO || || || || || | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Taildraggers(at)aol.com
Date: May 12, 2000
Subject: Re: Randolph 912 slosh
My rv6 had slosh, as per Van's instructions. Rebuilt right tank(new), so only left tank has slosh. The slosh, when covered with fuel, can be seen swaying back and forth like seaweed. I don't recommend using it. An alternative, if you've already used it, is to put an inline filter in that tank's fuel line, and always use the other tank for takeoff & landing. Good luck. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Taildraggers(at)aol.com
Date: May 12, 2000
Subject: Re: Question re: conduit for the vertical stabilizer
John: I left out any wiring in the tail. Whelen makes excellent strobe/fwd facing position/aft facing position lights. Keep the tail as LIGHT as poss. You'll be glad you did. Doug ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Taildraggers(at)aol.com
Date: May 12, 2000
Subject: Re: Fuel Vent
Glenn: On my 6, I put the fuel vents about 3 in inboard of the side of the fuse, works fine. Good luck. Doug ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "AV8R" <jhth(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: KT-78A Transponder
Date: May 12, 2000
Can anyone tell me the difference between a KT-76A and KT-78A transponder. Thanks, John Hall RV-8QB - Avionics ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com>
Subject: navaid ap for sale
Date: May 12, 2000
Got a new navaid on Jan 15th which is now for sale cause my wife made me buy the s-tec system thirty with alt hold. The unit is complete never mounted, never powered up or otherwise manhandled. First 1200 takes I'll ship....if not maybe I'll put it in my experimental Cherokee...hmmmmm. Also I have a sigma tek directional gyro new as of may 1 that I could sell if someone needs one right away. Its from gulf -coast avionics never installed. I bought a gyro with heading bug so I no longer need it for this rv. I'll sell for what I paid on invoice.(I'll have to look) If no one is in need I'll just end up putting it in my other plane... 716.570.2933 Right coast Steven DiNieri capsteve(at)wzrd.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2000
From: Chris Browne <cebrowne(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: KT-78A Transponder
John, The KT-78A is no longer produced. It puts out 113 watts vice 200 watts for the KT-76A. Also, the -78A is only good up to 15,000, whereas the -76A goes to 35,000. Other than that, not much. Chris Browne -6A FWF Atlanta AV8R wrote: > > Can anyone tell me the difference between a KT-76A and KT-78A transponder. > > Thanks, > > John Hall > RV-8QB - Avionics > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Jack Kane in Amboy Washington
Date: May 12, 2000
Well, now I'm a bit frustrated (Ok, I'm furious). Jack Kane advertised a wing kit, engine mount and gear legs and a steel stand for sale on barnstormers. I answered that add, agreed to buy his parts, agreed to a price, cancelled my ready to ship wing kit at Van's, had a cashiers check drawn for the amount agreed upon and overnighted the check to him.....all per HIS instructions. Now that he has my check in hand, he disappears for two days (no response to calls or email). Today I get him on the phone to see if all was OK and he informs me he sold the kit Wednesday evening (after speaking to me Wednesday morning when I told him the check went out next day air). So, I've sent this 'gentleman' $4K in certified funds and he does business like this. He says he'll be returning my money..... Just thought it should be known that he does business in this way......should anyone else wish to deal with him in the future. My cancelled order with Van's for the wing kit now puts me BACK IN THE BACK OF THE LINE TO GET ONE. My empennage is finished, I had a wing kit ready to ship to me, I cancelled it because of this dickhead and now I have to wait 2 1/2 months to get back to building. Dammit, I am pissed. Sorry for the language, but I can't understand people who do things this way.......if he were not on the other side of the country there would be one ticked off marine standing on his doorstep right now. Actually, it's not that far by airline. Bill Shook -4 stalled ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Tank dies
Date: May 12, 2000
> Just when I thought I had every possible tool (yeah, right) for > building an RV, I learn about tank dies. Do most builders use them, > or will regular dimple dies work just fine for building your tanks? > If you start with regular dies and don't like the results, can you > re-dimple the tank skins with tank dies? Mark: I would beg or borrow a set of tank dies - or share the cost with a couple of other builders. You only need them for a very short time. It is my weak-minded understanding that tank dies are not mated tightly, therefore a little Proseal is squeezed through each rivet hole. It probably reduces significantly the chance for leaks. I don't think that you can try this approach when or if you don't like the regular solution. You would still be in a serious rework project second only to screwing up a canopy. Too much pain! Ernest Kells RV-9A - Wings in the Mail EAA: #430137 Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario Email: ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca ___ I___ ______( 0 )______ / \ " " ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PASSPAT(at)aol.com
Date: May 12, 2000
Subject: Re: KT-78A Transponder
the KT-76-A is 250 watt KT-78-A is is 150 watt as certificated if cavaty has been replaced most likely to be 250 watts anyway. Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2000
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: Tank dies
Mark Schrimmer wrote: > > Just when I thought I had every possible tool (yeah, right) for > building an RV, I learn about tank dies. Do most builders use them, > or will regular dimple dies work just fine for building your tanks? > If you start with regular dies and don't like the results, can you > re-dimple the tank skins with tank dies? > IMHO tank dies are not needed. The popularity in the tank dies is that if you get proseal under the rivet in a normal dimple the rivit will sit a little high after setting. The tank dies create a slightly deeper dimple to lessen this effect. If you prep each dimple with a couple of twists of your deburring tool the effect is the same. For that matter prep all 12000 holes in the skin with the deburing tool after dimpling and all your rivets will look even better. Gary Zilik ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Jon Johanson's number three trip around the world.
Date: May 12, 2000
Thought all you RVer's would be interested to know that Jon is departing Australia on Monday in his RV 4 and should arrive in a couple of weeks. The following is the message I received yesterday from his manager. Hello, Just to let you know that the website for Jon's flight is being launched tomorrow morning here in Adelaide. The address is www.jonjohanson.on.net The media release is attached (word doc). Also attached is the latest itinerary (exel). Jon is hoping to attend airshows in : Norway, Sweden, Denmark,Ireland, England He will be back for Oshkosh. Regards, Sue Ball Manager for Jon Johanson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV8DRIVER(at)aol.com
Date: May 12, 2000
Subject: Re: Jack Kane in Amboy Washington
Go for it Bill! >..if he were not on the other side of the country there would be one ticked off marine standing on his doorstep right now. Actually, it's not that far by airline. Bill Shook -4 stalled< ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 #80620 flies
Date: May 12, 2000
Ed & Joe, CONGRATULATIONS & WELL DONE !!!! To Both of You Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A (wiring) Niantic, CT >From: ERSF2B(at)aol.com >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: RV-8 #80620 flies >Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 22:15:52 EDT > > >I flew RV-8 #80620 (N624S) today for 40 minutes. Too busy learning and >scanning to write down any numbers. But..... what a trip, this is one HOT >aeroplane. Got in two landings. > >Ed Storo RV-8 ( Joe Spence flew his RV-8 last sunday, has 6 hours as >of >today) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Burns" <hsierra(at)flash.net>
Subject: rv-4 prop cable
Date: May 12, 2000
anybody have any pictures on-line on how they routed the prop cable on a O-360 RV-4? Im looking for a idea or two before drilling holes in the firewall. R. Burns RV-4 s/n 3524 N82RB www.flash.net/~hsierra some time this summer i hope.......... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRAYK9(at)aol.com
Date: May 13, 2000
Subject: kickbutt Bill
Bill Shook, I work for an airline. Do you want a free pass to go kick ass? Chuck - RV6 (50%) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gusndale(at)aol.com
Date: May 13, 2000
Subject: Re: installing wing ribs.
In a message dated 5/11/00 7:00:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, BillyRV6(at)aol.com writes: << When you attach the ribs to the main spare will they all line up evenly to the rear spares top or bottom of the wing. If one of the rib is off and you pull it to line up with the rear spare, it will twist the main spare. This might not be a problem you probably just clamp the ribs to the spare and they line up with the rear spare. >> Billy, This is one of those things where your thinking and concern is logical but, in actual practice, the parts are accurate and line up well enough that it is not issue. Just clamp the ribs to the main spar and rear spar. As long as the main and rear spar are correctly aligned relative to each other in your jig all will be well. Regards, Dale Wotring RV6A Working on wireing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "j.j. banks " <tinmanjj(at)ptd.net>
Subject: Re: Tank dies
Date: May 13, 2000
don,t use tank dies on wing skins and ribs, they make the holes too big for clecos to hold ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Schrimmer" <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 2:00 PM Subject: RV-List: Tank dies > > Just when I thought I had every possible tool (yeah, right) for > building an RV, I learn about tank dies. Do most builders use them, > or will regular dimple dies work just fine for building your tanks? > If you start with regular dies and don't like the results, can you > re-dimple the tank skins with tank dies? > > Mark Schrimmer > RV-9A > Irvine, CA > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cecilth(at)juno.com
Date: May 12, 2000
Subject: Re: OSH avionics specials
Yes they did. I saw it there and bought it in August, Bill B. gave it to me at the homecomming at the factory in Sept . Cecil > >In a message dated 5/12/2000 9:03:06 AM Central Daylight Time, >cecilth(at)juno.com writes: > ><< When I bought my GX-65 right after it came out in 1998, I shopped >around > and then called Vans, and they had the best price by about $150. As I > remember I got it for about $2600 or 2700. Today I got the new Chief > catalog and they have it for $2900. On the back cover they talk about >it > being the latest and best etc. > Cecil Hatfield >> > >Actually they say its the best, but they also say they introduced it >at EAA >in oshkosh in 1998. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Slosh
Date: May 13, 2000
Sloshed my tanks before putting any fuel in them , they were clean in my opinion, prepped with Aluma-Prep before riveting. Three years later it started coming loose. I cut inspection holes in the back in each bay and removed all the slosh with MEK, it would almost have been easier to build new tanks. No slosh ever again for me. In my case it all had to be removed as it was coming loose in large pieces and could easily block the pick up tubes. Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. Floor skins in the 6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Jack Kane in Amboy Washington
Date: May 13, 2000
Sue him for breach of contract. His action is a breach and you have lost something as a result. hal ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Shook <billshook(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 3:32 PM Subject: RV-List: Jack Kane in Amboy Washington > > Well, now I'm a bit frustrated (Ok, I'm furious). Jack Kane advertised a > wing kit, engine mount and gear legs and a steel stand for sale on > barnstormers. I answered that add, agreed to buy his parts, agreed to a > price, cancelled my ready to ship wing kit at Van's, had a cashiers check > drawn for the amount agreed upon and overnighted the check to him.....all > per HIS instructions. Now that he has my check in hand, he disappears for > two days (no response to calls or email). Today I get him on the phone to > see if all was OK and he informs me he sold the kit Wednesday evening (after > speaking to me Wednesday morning when I told him the check went out next day > air). So, I've sent this 'gentleman' $4K in certified funds and he does > business like this. He says he'll be returning my money..... > > Just thought it should be known that he does business in this > way......should anyone else wish to deal with him in the future. My > cancelled order with Van's for the wing kit now puts me BACK IN THE BACK OF > THE LINE TO GET ONE. My empennage is finished, I had a wing kit ready to > ship to me, I cancelled it because of this dickhead and now I have to wait 2 > 1/2 months to get back to building. Dammit, I am pissed. Sorry for the > language, but I can't understand people who do things this way.......if he > were not on the other side of the country there would be one ticked off > marine standing on his doorstep right now. Actually, it's not that far by > airline. > > Bill Shook > -4 stalled > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2000
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: OV protection w/built in regulator
Mike Wills wrote: > > > > > > > One of the simplest way to provide overvoltage protection is to use Mark > > > Landall's (spelling?) zener diode and fuse combination. Simple to install, > > > foolproof, and inexpensive. He has an ad usually in the ad section of Sport > > > Aviation. > > > > > > > >Oh how elegant.. > > > >What voltage did he recommend? I would be interested to know the device > >number as well. > > > >Doug Gray > > I assume that electric Bob will jump in here and point out that a simple > zener diode will respond to short duration transients on the bus that are > not necessarily indicative of a regulator runaway. The design that Bob has > for OVP is relatively simple, relatively inexpensive, and is designed to > respond only to true runaway conditions and ignore transients of shorter > duration. I just read this chapter in the Aeroelectric connection last nite. > > Regarding the earlier question about OVP for internal regulators, Bob is > there a relatively easy way to convert to an external regulator (in my case > the alternator I think is a Mitsubishi unit which came with the Mazda > engine I'm using)? Is this a recommended approach or would you stick to the > internal regulator/over-voltage relay depicted on your website? If > converting to an external regulator can you recommend one? I'm reliant on > electrical power for ignition and fuel injection so reliability is a major > concern. > > Mike Wills > RV4 engine stuff (Mazda 13B) > willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil > Mike, (private post due to history of flame wars on this subject) My experience has been that most of the hardware old enough to use an external regulator is also less reliable. Note that I said 'my experience' and 'most.' I went through 4 externally regulated alternators & at least that many regulators in about 4 months before switching to an internally regulated alt. almost 5 years ago, with not a single glitch since. None of the above failures were of the o/v nature & none damaged any avionics. I don't use o/v protection, but if I did, it would probably be the very simple zener/fuse arrangement. I'm sure Bob's solid state system is more sophisticated & works better, but as the guy used to write in BYTE Magazine, 'Better is the enemy of good enough.' My personal feeling about external regulators & o/v protection is this: Once I reach a certain (hard to define) comfort level about the reliability of a system, I'd rather not add failure modes. Over-voltage type failures in self-regulated alternators seem to be so rare that you hear about every one. Generator/regulator & alt/regulator failures are so common that they are treated like dry vac pump failures, you know they are going to happen sometime in the near future. I hope the above will be worth at least a little more than its cost. :-) I'm looking forward to another Mazda taking to the air. As soon as I finish my (literal) homebuilding project, I hope to start on a rotary project myself. Charlie flying -4 (Lyc) Slobovia Outernational Airport ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com
Date: May 13, 2000
Subject: Re: GLASSAIR OUT OF BUSINESS
Hi Jim: I also am somewhat familiar with Glassair/Glasstars operation. For several years we were Stoddard Hamilton's/Glassair's electrical connector supplier...Until they could not pay their bills, would not pay their bills and got real unpleasant when asked to pay up. They had got to the point of not making most of their parts. Almost everything was farmed out and they slowly dumped most of the original staff that actually did the work. The staff that made them successful in the first place. I am sorry that a bunch of folks lost their jobs, but you are absolutely right about a group of "Non Value Added personnel." They made a great kit plane and were at one time a pleasure to work with. I am sorry that the old company is gone...But in my opinion you reap what you sow. So if any of you are building Glassairs or Glasstars and need your your electrical bits and pieces, we got them. Regards, John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar ineCore (Chick the blue link to go there) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com
Date: May 13, 2000
Subject: Re: Vacume and fuel
With a "both" setting on your fuel selector, you will be feeding from both tanks at once. However, you'll never start with exactly the same amount of gas in both tanks. Also, because of fuel line routing, vent installation, and other variables, one tank will probably feed easier than the other. Therefore, one tank will run out first. (Note, because of the well head pressure generated at the carb with high wing mounted fuel tanks, this situation isn't important for high wing aircraft.). When that first tank runs out, the air from that tank is going to get sucked to your fuel pump more easily than the fuel from your other tank (Remember, gravity isn't helping fuel flow with our low wing RV's.) So, when the first tank runs out, the prop's gonna stop. Depending on your altitude at flameout and a whole bunch of other factors, you may be able to get a restart before you tie the record for low altitude flight. There is much discussion of this in the archives. KB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Helming" <rhelming(at)evansville.net>
Subject: Re: TEST Cards
Date: May 13, 2000
What are the test flight cards? ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 3:44 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: TEST Cards > > On Thu, 11 May 2000, Charles Rowbotham wrote: > > > > > Dave and I are getting optimistic and are wondering if anyone has made up > > set of Test Flight Cards. We have a couple of books, but if anyone has > > already developed test routines it would really help. > > > > Go over to http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking > > THere is a very comprehensive test flight test plan for the KR-2. I know, > I know...but it is a good flight test plan and can be updated to the > RV's. > > Click on Chapter 11, Flying the KR and then click on Article 1, KR Test > Plan. > > > Steve Eberhart > mailto:newtech(at)newtech.com > > THE WING FLIES! - http://www.newtech.com/nlf for info on the new, flight > tested, KRnet/UIUC airfoils. Good job KRnet, you can be proud of your > contribution to Sport Aviation. Special thanks to Dr. Ashok Gopalarathnam > and Dr. Michael Selig for some great Sport Aviation airfoils. > > One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are > easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author > > All information, in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly > food for thought requiring additional, qualified, engineering analysis. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Tank dies
> >don,t use tank dies on wing skins and ribs, they make the holes too big for >clecos to hold >----- Original Message ----- > >> >> Just when I thought I had every possible tool (yeah, right) for >> building an RV, I learn about tank dies. Do most builders use them, >> or will regular dimple dies work just fine for building your tanks? >> If you start with regular dies and don't like the results, can you >> re-dimple the tank skins with tank dies? >> >> Mark Schrimmer >> RV-9A >> Irvine, CA > > >> > I used tank dies for my tank skins. They let the rivet sit flush even though there was some proseal between the rivet head and the skin. I would use them again. They are also useful to dimple the underlying structure on the rest of the aircraft, so the dimple in the skins from the regular dimple dies sits nicer. I find it better to use a #41 drill for all holes that will be dimpled, rather than the usual #40. The hole gets bigger when you dimple it, and rivets (and clecos) fit pretty loosely if you use a #40. Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit floors) Ottawa, Canada http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Glassair Closed
Date: May 13, 2000
This is RV building related because if a large, established kitplane company can close it's doors with no notice, then this public forum should be free to discuss the reasons why. I couldn't imagine how I would feel if I was building a Glassair right now. There seems to be two reasons so far. First their website claims slow sales. This would support the "high on the hog" theory. Companies with a large managerial staff need large revenue to survive. However, a well established company (without a big lawsuit on the horizon) would still have the potential to be sold and continue operations with a new owner. Second is the speculation from an earlier post that they are being sued out of existence. This would mean that they are lying on their website. I find it interesting to note that the son of the deceased pilot quotes the "Purchase / Release Agreement" that indicates to me that Stoddard Hamilton doesn't have to take any responsibility for pretty much any thing. I guess the main reason I have written this post is to ask if there are any American lawyers on this list that can comment on this. Can a release agreement like this be thrown out in a court of law? See the son's website for the details of the agreement and accident. http://hometown.aol.com/glastarcrash/myhomepage/index.html It is all very sad, Norman Hunger ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2000
From: meketa <acgm(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Re: Vacume and fuel
> This is just out of couristy but why cant you run on both tanks at the same > time instead of switch tanks every 15 mim, if you plan your flight low fuel > should not be a problem. and second question is why do you need a vacuum > pump, why not put a vacuum resovore in and regulate the vacuum to or from > the gages. > Just curious Hello Yall There have been plenty of replies to the fuel tank question. I will attempt to answer the vacuum question. I am not an IFR pilot, but know how the system works. If any one on the list has experience with an manifold pressure vacuum backup system and the limitations of it I am sure all on the list would like hear about it. The vacuum system requires a constant flow of vacuum, not just vacuum being held in reserve. When full throttle is used, as in 75% power\8,500 ft. altitude cruise or full throttle go around, you have no engine vacuum to drive the gyros. The vacuum reservoir reserve would be quickly depleted. To get 4 inches of gyro vacuum from the intake pressure port one would have to fly with manifold pressure 4 inches less than the full throttle manifold pressure reading. Using intake pressure for the gyros would only be practicle as a backup system for reduced power flight or decents. A go around in IMC would likely be without Gyros. Better get it right the first time. If I am wrong here feel free to correct me. Constructively please. George Meketa RV-8 fuselage #80984 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: OV protection w/built in regulator
>My experience has been that most of the hardware old enough to use an >external regulator is also less reliable. Note that I said 'my >experience' and 'most.' I went through 4 externally regulated >alternators & at least that many regulators in about 4 months before >switching to an internally regulated alt. almost 5 years ago, with not a >single glitch since. None of the above failures were of the o/v nature & >none damaged any avionics. Agreed . . . and MOST of the externally regulated alternator hardware out there is specific to aircraft and designed/certified 20-30 years ago. Check the service difficulty reports using keyword "alternator" and then filter for single engine aircraft . . . Everything that might be deduced in the way of alternator failures happens every month in a TC aircraft . . . "casting broke, thru-bolts stripped, brushes worn out, windings burned, bearings siezed, diodes shorted, etc. etc." FBO's love 'em . . . regulated job security well into the new century. On the other hand, when you take a brand new, Nipon-Dienso, 40 or 60 amp alternator, disassemble for modification to run external regulation, balance the rotor to about 10x tighter specs than they come out of the factory and re-assemble with due care, you end up with an alternator that runs well for a very long time. I have first hand knowledge of 2,000+ such alternators sold over the last 8 years . . . not one has returned for wear-out or repair. It's the difference between a 1990's product and a 1960's product. >I don't use o/v protection, but if I did, it would probably be the very >simple zener/fuse arrangement. I'm sure Bob's solid state system is more >sophisticated & works better, but as the guy used to write in BYTE >Magazine, 'Better is the enemy of good enough.' The zener fuse combo was certified onto early American and subsequently Grumman-American aircraft. It's a sort of poor-man's crowbar ov protection scheme. When I first heard of it, I was skeptical. It has been about 15 years since I brass-boarded this system onto an alternator-battery system in the lab. Here's what I found. Proper operation of the system depended heavily on two things. (1) A fuse (fast acting) had to be used upstream of the zener and (2) the zener had to be a 1W glass encapsulated device - p/n 1N4745. It works like this: In an ov condition, the zener tries its best to keep the bus voltage from rising above 16 volts. In so doing, internal disipation rises well above the diode's 1W rating and it commits electronic suicide by becoming a dead short. The resulting short opens the fuse and corrals the runaway alternator. Over the years, folk who did not understand the "balance of power" implicit the this design made well meaning-changes to this scheme with the unintended consequences of degrading performance or even making the system ineffectual. Common errors include: (1) Replace pesky fuse with a real circuit breaker: Opening times for breakers vs. fuses is 10x to 50x longer. The slow response of the breaker stresses the zener to explosive destruction. The altenrator runaway continues unabated. (2) Substituted any ol zener with the number "1N4745" printed on it: Plastic parts were unable to withstand the rapid onset of heat dissipation and explosive destruction of the zener results. The runaway continues unabated. (3) Substitute a really husky 16 volt zener for the itty- bitty 1W device. This change was often combined with a change from fuse to circuit breaker. The general idea was to make the protection scheme "reusable" . . . no fuses -or- zeners to replace: The general effect of this modification was to push the time-constant for tripping OV protection out by hundreds of milliseconds to perhaps several seconds. Contemporary OV protection is designed to react to a step from 14-20 volts on the bus in 50 milliseconds or less. >My personal feeling about external regulators & o/v protection is this: >Once I reach a certain (hard to define) comfort level about the >reliability of a system, I'd rather not add failure modes. Over-voltage >type failures in self-regulated alternators seem to be so rare that you >hear about every one. Generator/regulator & alt/regulator failures are >so common that they are treated like dry vac pump failures, you know >they are going to happen sometime in the near future. No argument about comfort levels . . . I'll suggest that the greatest body of experience with aircraft alternators comes from the world of certified aircraft. My best recommendation is to see what's happening with true state-of-the art designs and fabrication techniques. There's a mistaken perception that the certified aircraft world is benefiting from the advance of technologies in all respects . . . I'll suggest it happens only in area of things you bolt into holes on the instrument panel. Stuff under the cowl has evolved very slowly if at all in 50 years or so that have passed since the first generator was bolted to a single engine airplane. If you want to know what a modern alternator can really do for you, you'll have to limit your observations to the real leading edge of aviation technologies . . . check out the flight line at OSH. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) ( still understand knothing. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2000
From: "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: Glassair Closed
Norman Hunger wrote: > This is RV building related because if a large, established kitplane company > can close it's doors with no notice, then this public forum should be free to > discuss the reasons why. I couldn't imagine how I would feel if I was building > a Glassair right now. We can only hope (and I tend to think it's true) that Van is a better businessman than the folks at Stoddard Hamilton. There is also comfort in the sheer numbers of RVs flying and being built. If for some reason Van did have to close his doors, the market is probably big enough to entice someone else to quickly come in and fill the vacuum. The simplicity of RV parts compared to Glasair parts would also help to make that a quick and fluid transition. On the other hand, this is a precarious business with none of the companies involved having tremendous amounts of reserve capital. I think with Van's we are in the best situation that we could possibly be, but this is still a risk we have to take. Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2000
From: glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Vacume and fuel
To answer the why question if I may: You see most of the guys who build rv's come from the cessna community high wings and don't bother with switching that often unless you go with the "big" cessnas so you just simply put the selector in both mode and forget about it. That said, People who don't regularly fly a plane in witch you switch tanks get a little aggravated about it so they ask the question why. You guys have done a splendid job in explaining the why to them, now they know Glenn --- meketa wrote: > > > > This is just out of couristy but why cant you run > on both tanks at the same > > time instead of switch tanks every 15 mim, if you > plan your flight low fuel > > should not be a problem. and second question is > why do you need a vacuum > > pump, why not put a vacuum resovore in and > regulate the vacuum to or from > > the gages. > > Just curious > > Hello Yall > > There have been plenty of replies to the fuel tank > question. I will > attempt to answer the vacuum question. I am not an > IFR pilot, but > know how the system works. If any one on the list > has experience with an > manifold pressure vacuum backup system and the > limitations of it I am > sure all on the list would like hear about it. > > The vacuum system requires a constant flow of > vacuum, not just vacuum > being held in reserve. When full throttle is used, > as in 75% > power\8,500 ft. altitude cruise or full throttle go > around, you have no > engine vacuum to drive the gyros. The vacuum > reservoir reserve would be > quickly depleted. To get 4 inches of gyro vacuum > from the intake > pressure port one would have to fly with manifold > pressure 4 inches less > than the full throttle manifold pressure reading. > Using intake pressure > for the gyros would only be practicle as a backup > system for reduced > power flight or decents. A go around in IMC would > likely be without > Gyros. Better get it right the first time. > > If I am wrong here feel free to correct me. > Constructively please. > > George Meketa > RV-8 fuselage > #80984 > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > ==== Glenn Williams 8A A&P Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2000
From: Bruce Gray <brucegray(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Glassair Closed
The release agreement can be applied to the pilot. It cannot however be held against his relatives or his estate. The passenger (a CFI giving the builder a BFR), his estate, and his relatives, are free to sue all in sight including the builder and Stoddard-Hamilton. Bruce Glasair III Norman Hunger wrote: > > This is RV building related because if a large, established kitplane company > can close it's doors with no notice, then this public forum should be free > to discuss the reasons why. I couldn't imagine how I would feel if I was > building a Glassair right now. > > There seems to be two reasons so far. > > First their website claims slow sales. This would support the "high on the > hog" theory. Companies with a large managerial staff need large revenue to > survive. However, a well established company (without a big lawsuit on the > horizon) would still have the potential to be sold and continue operations > with a new owner. > > Second is the speculation from an earlier post that they are being sued out > of existence. This would mean that they are lying on their website. I find > it interesting to note that the son of the deceased pilot quotes the > "Purchase / Release Agreement" that indicates to me that Stoddard Hamilton > doesn't have to take any responsibility for pretty much any thing. I guess > the main reason I have written this post is to ask if there are any American > lawyers on this list that can comment on this. Can a release agreement like > this be thrown out in a court of law? See the son's website for the details > of the agreement and accident. > http://hometown.aol.com/glastarcrash/myhomepage/index.html > > It is all very sad, > Norman Hunger > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 77 Msgs - 05/09/00
Date: May 13, 2000
From my friend Earl Lawrence at EAA. He is willing to go to bat for you when your local FSDO reads and makes their own determination as to what the Regs say. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Lawrence" <elawrence(at)eaa.org> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 9:14 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 77 Msgs - 05/09/00 > Dennis: > From the EAA web site, members only section - government- hombuilt you can > find the following: > > Flight Over Congested Areas > Since the issuance (05-28-98) of FAA Bulletin # HBAW 98-11 and HBGA 98-05 > (http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/hbaw/hbaw9811.txt), we have been seeking FAA > clarification of flight over congested areas for AB experimental aircraft. > On 07-14-99 FAA Bulletin # HBGA 99-13 > (http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/hbga/hbga9913.doc) was issued - stating AB > experimental aircraft are allowed to fly over congested areas. The 07/31/99 > meeting with the FAA (see above) highlighted the need for all FAA > MIDO/FSDO/DAR inspectors to comply with this bulletin. > > Also for new homebuilts the FAA has revised the operating limitations for > these aircraft also on EAA's web site at > http://members.eaa.org/home/govt/homebuilt.html the following can be found. > > FAA Order 8130.2D Certification requirements for homebuilt > Sport Aviation Article about FAA Order 8130.2D > FAQ's on FAA Order 8130.2D > FAA Order 8130.2D Sections 6 and 7 - Homebuilt (zipped .doc file) > FAA Order 8130.2D Sections 6 and 8 - Exhibition (zipped .doc file) > FAA Order 8130.2D sections 6 & 9 - Kit-built aircraft > Required forms: For your copy of the 280 page order in its entirety send > $20.00 (includes shipping and handling) to: > EAA > Attn: Government & Industry Relations > P.O. Box 3086 > Oshkosh, WI 54903 > > I hope this answers your questions if you have any more after reviewing this > information feel free to contact me. Also anytime you may have a regulatory > question for EAA you can email us at govt(at)eaa.org and one of my staff will > answer your question. > > Earl Lawrence > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dennis Persyk [mailto:dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 6:20 PM > To: elawrence(at)eaa.org > Subject: Fw: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 77 Msgs - 05/09/00 > > > Earl, > Could you please comment on this letter of understanding and if I can indeed > fly my homebuilt, after fly-off period, anywhere I can fly my certificated > Cessna and with the same restrictions. > Thank you. > Best regards, > Dennis Persyk > EAA 170614 Chapter 790 > -----Original Message----- > From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:34 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 77 Msgs - 05/09/00 > > > > > >It is amazing how many read the regs and then quote hook, line and verse > and > >they are wrong. Yes, it does say that, BUT there is a letter of > >understanding between the FAA and the EAA that once you fly off your test > >flying, you can fly anywhere that a certified plane can fly with the same > >restrictions. If you or your 90 wonder need additional material or > >explanation, contact Earl Lawrence, in Government Relations at EAA... > >elawrence(at)eaa.org > > > >Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! > >(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Larry Rush" <krush(at)iquest.net> > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 10:24 AM > >Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 77 Msgs - 05/09/00 > > > > > >> > >> I talked to a DAR friend of mine who is just starting as a FAA EXP A/C > >DAR, > >> and he mentioned a Part 91 reg stating that AFTER we get our > Airworthiness > >> Cert we are still not legal to fly over heavily populated areas. Is this > >> true??? Surely not! > >> > >> Larry, RV-6A final/finish stuff,3SY Avon.In. > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Fw: [c-a] Propeller change and the FAA
Date: May 13, 2000
Another good reason to join the EAA. Be sure to get your paper work updated so the FSDO can't hassle you. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Lawrence" <elawrence(at)eaa.org> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 9:25 AM Subject: RE: [c-a] Propeller change and the FAA Anyone who is making a "major change" to their homebuilt should ask their local FAA office to update their operating limitations to the new ones outlined in FAA ORDER 8130.2D. This was issued in September 1999 and can be downloaded from the EAA members only web site at, http://members.eaa.org/home/govt/homebuilt.html. The new operating limitation dealing with major changes states the following: (17) After incorporating a major change as described in 21.93, the aircraft owner is required to re-establish compliance with 91.319(b). All operations will be conducted day VFR in a sparsely populated area. The aircraft must remain in flight test for a minimum of 5 hours. Persons non-essential to the flight shall not be carried. The aircraft owner shall make a detailed log book entry describing the change prior to the test flight. Following satisfactory completion of the required number of flight hours in the flight test area, the pilot shall certify in the records that the aircraft has been shown to comply with 91.319(b). Compliance with 91.319(b) shall be recorded in the aircraft records with the following or a similarly worded statement: "I certify that the prescribed flight test hours have been completed and the aircraft is controllable throughout its normal range of speeds and throughout all maneuvers to be executed, has no hazardous operating characteristics or design features, and is safe for operation. The following aircraft operating data has been demonstrated during the flight testing: speeds Vso______, Vx______, and Vy______, and the weight______, and CG location______ at which they were obtained." Earl Lawrence -----Original Message----- From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley(at)accessus.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 9:06 PM Subject: Fw: [c-a] Propeller change and the FAA WOW look at requirement #2. If it was a one of a kind plane, he would be screwed. I have a feeling that his FSDO doesn't really have a clue and are making local interpretations. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc P B" <borommarc(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:51 PM Subject: [c-a] Propeller change and the FAA > [The Canard Aviators's Mailing list] > > > Dear Canardians, > > I could use your help. > > I am switching my LongEZ from a Great American Propeller to a Margie Warnke "Air Claw" propeller. I > have been in contact with the FAA FSDO in Scottsdale, AZ about the paperwork I need to process. I > have gotten a different answer each time I called them from Tucson. Last week I drove to Scottsdale > (Phoenix suburb) and sat down with an examiner with all my papers and log books and this is what I > was advised to do. You will see at the end of this note where I need some help here. > > > FAA Examiners instructions: > > 1) In spite of some of the earlier, conflicting instructions, I will not have to have a new > airworthiness certificate issued. > 2) I will have to send a letter to the examiner stating my intent to change props and provide (this > is the important part) data on the prop and any information I can dig up showing that the same type > has been used on a LongEZ before. Data regarding hours in service and registration numbers of the > aircraft using the prop type will be important. (see info at end of note) > 3) I will have to state the number of hours (5 to 10) I plan to employ in testing the new > configuration in a restricted flight area away from populated regions (I guess they don't like to > have planes falling on houses and people - but I know that). > > OK. Here is where I am asking for help. > > I have contacted Margie Warnke and she will provide me with the data from three LongEZ customers. I > could use more. She says that there are hundreds of satisfied customers and many LongEZ drivers. > > If you are a LongEZ driver flying a Warnke Propeller, I would appreciate your sending me the > following data (no need to clog the canard-aviators line with private communications - just reply > directly to me. If you are interested in passing the information on, I will be glad to summarize > the data for the group): > > Aircraft type: > Registration Number: > Prop description: e.g. pitch and diameter, manufacturer > Engine type: manufacturer and HP > Cruise speed: > Cruise rpm: > Hours in service: > Satisfaction: > Comments: > > And anything else that might be pertinent. > > Thanks, > Marc Borom > Tucson, AZ > > > \ > ->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>-|- > / > -For details on sponsors of this list, copyrights, and how to remove > -yourself from this list, please visit: > > http://www.canard.com/canard-aviator-sponsors.html > > (c) 1997,1998, 1999 Canard Aviators. support(at)canard.com > / > -|-<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > \ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: wire routing
Hi, Can someone pleas suggest some good anchoring locations for the #2 & #4 wires going to the starter and alternator. My starter solenoid is on the firewall, but I am not sure where to anchor it inbetween the firewall and the starter itself. Same goes for the alternator. Thanks, Glenn Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Battery Dimensions Needed
Hi, I have the basic case dimensions for the Concorde RG-25 battery as supplied by Van's. Since they differ from the dimensions listed in the archives, can someone verify them as correct? 5"W x 7.5"L x 6.625"H I was also hoping someone could provide me with the following information related to the position of the terminals? 1. Center to center distance of the terminals. 2. Center to edge distance of the terminals (both X and Y axis) 3. Which terminal is + and which is - Thanks, Glenn Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com
Date: May 13, 2000
Subject: Re: wire routing
In a message dated 5/13/00 3:00:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net writes: << Hi, Can someone pleas suggest some good anchoring locations for the #2 & #4 wires going to the starter and alternator. My starter solenoid is on the firewall, but I am not sure where to anchor it inbetween the firewall and the starter itself. Same goes for the alternator. Thanks, Glenn Gordon >> I'm not sure there are any *good* ones. Mine, and most others I see run the big wires along the engine mount (using adel clamps and/or zip ties) and then along the sump/engine case seam (using adels attached to the sump bolts). KB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Hiers" <craig-rv4(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Jack Kane in Amboy Washington
Date: May 13, 2000
You don't want to waste all that time going through a law suit, not to mention the aggravation. Besides, think how much better you would feel after hearing a few bones breaking. Craig Hiers RV-4 N143CH Just crossed the 100 hour mark > Sue him for breach of contract. His action is a breach and you have lost > something as a result. > > hal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Shook <billshook(at)mindspring.com> > To: > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 3:32 PM > Subject: RV-List: Jack Kane in Amboy Washington > > > > > > Well, now I'm a bit frustrated (Ok, I'm furious). Jack Kane advertised a > > wing kit, engine mount and gear legs and a steel stand for sale on > > barnstormers. I answered that add, agreed to buy his parts, agreed to a > > price, cancelled my ready to ship wing kit at Van's, had a cashiers check > > drawn for the amount agreed upon and overnighted the check to him.....all > > per HIS instructions. Now that he has my check in hand, he disappears for > > two days (no response to calls or email). Today I get him on the phone to > > see if all was OK and he informs me he sold the kit Wednesday evening > (after > > speaking to me Wednesday morning when I told him the check went out next > day > > air). So, I've sent this 'gentleman' $4K in certified funds and he does > > business like this. He says he'll be returning my money..... > > > > Just thought it should be known that he does business in this > > way......should anyone else wish to deal with him in the future. My > > cancelled order with Van's for the wing kit now puts me BACK IN THE BACK > OF > > THE LINE TO GET ONE. My empennage is finished, I had a wing kit ready to > > ship to me, I cancelled it because of this dickhead and now I have to wait > 2 > > 1/2 months to get back to building. Dammit, I am pissed. Sorry for the > > language, but I can't understand people who do things this way.......if he > > were not on the other side of the country there would be one ticked off > > marine standing on his doorstep right now. Actually, it's not that far by > > airline. > > > > Bill Shook > > -4 stalled > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com
Date: May 13, 2000
Subject: Re: Battery Dimensions Needed
In a message dated 5/13/00 3:29:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net writes: << Hi, I have the basic case dimensions for the Concorde RG-25 battery as supplied by Van's. Since they differ from the dimensions listed in the archives, can someone verify them as correct? 5"W x 7.5"L x 6.625"H I was also hoping someone could provide me with the following information related to the position of the terminals? 1. Center to center distance of the terminals. 2. Center to edge distance of the terminals (both X and Y axis) 3. Which terminal is + and which is - Thanks, Glenn Gordon >> I've got the RG-25XC. I expect the dimensions are the same as the plain 'ol -25. It is 5 1/8 wide, 7 5/8 long, and 6 3/4 tall. I think the extra 1/8" in length and width directions is because the top of the battery is slightly larger than the rectangular plastic body of the unit, which is probably where they got their lenght and width measurements. The terminals are located on one of the "long sides" of the battery. They are 5/8" from the long side, and 1" from the end of the battery. These measurements are to the centers of the terminals. This puts the terminals 5 5/8" apart, though I didn't measure this (although it would be a neat way to short the terminals together)... If you are standing over the battery with the terminals on the left side, the positive terminal will be at the bottom left corner. I'd suggest you get your battery first, then finish your battery box. I had to modify mine from plans once the battery arrived. The bad part was I'd already painted the box and was out of that paint... KB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Meacham" <bruceme(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Flight Model
Date: May 13, 2000
I've published a flight model of an RV-3 in the X-Plane registry. If any of you have the time to download the Free Demo Version of X-Plane www.x-plane.com and the RV-3 design I've created, I would appreciate any feedback. And yes, it even exhibits the same poor yaw dampening from too little vertical stab. Bruce Meacham ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2000
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: OV protection w/built in regulator
Charlie and Tupper England wrote: > > > Mike Wills wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > One of the simplest way to provide overvoltage protection is to use Mark > > > > Landall's (spelling?) zener diode and fuse combination. Simple to install, > > > > foolproof, and inexpensive. He has an ad usually in the ad section of Sport > > > > Aviation. > > > > > > > > > > >Oh how elegant.. > > > > > >What voltage did he recommend? I would be interested to know the device > > >number as well. > > > > > >Doug Gray > > > > I assume that electric Bob will jump in here and point out that a simple > > zener diode will respond to short duration transients on the bus that are > > not necessarily indicative of a regulator runaway. The design that Bob has > > for OVP is relatively simple, relatively inexpensive, and is designed to > > respond only to true runaway conditions and ignore transients of shorter > > duration. I just read this chapter in the Aeroelectric connection last nite. > > > > Regarding the earlier question about OVP for internal regulators, Bob is > > there a relatively easy way to convert to an external regulator (in my case > > the alternator I think is a Mitsubishi unit which came with the Mazda > > engine I'm using)? Is this a recommended approach or would you stick to the > > internal regulator/over-voltage relay depicted on your website? If > > converting to an external regulator can you recommend one? I'm reliant on > > electrical power for ignition and fuel injection so reliability is a major > > concern. > > > > Mike Wills > > RV4 engine stuff (Mazda 13B) > > willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil > > > Mike, > > (private post due to history of flame wars on this subject) > > My experience has been that most of the hardware old enough to use an > external regulator is also less reliable. Note that I said 'my > experience' and 'most.' I went through 4 externally regulated > alternators & at least that many regulators in about 4 months before > switching to an internally regulated alt. almost 5 years ago, with not a > single glitch since. None of the above failures were of the o/v nature & > none damaged any avionics. > > I don't use o/v protection, but if I did, it would probably be the very > simple zener/fuse arrangement. I'm sure Bob's solid state system is more > sophisticated & works better, but as the guy used to write in BYTE > Magazine, 'Better is the enemy of good enough.' > > My personal feeling about external regulators & o/v protection is this: > Once I reach a certain (hard to define) comfort level about the > reliability of a system, I'd rather not add failure modes. Over-voltage > type failures in self-regulated alternators seem to be so rare that you > hear about every one. Generator/regulator & alt/regulator failures are > so common that they are treated like dry vac pump failures, you know > they are going to happen sometime in the near future. > > I hope the above will be worth at least a little more than its cost. :-) > > I'm looking forward to another Mazda taking to the air. As soon as I > finish my (literal) homebuilding project, I hope to start on a rotary > project myself. > > Charlie > flying -4 (Lyc) > Slobovia Outernational Airport > Oh oh must have missed the privacy button:) Any way Charles I agree with you 100% the internal regulators nowadays are as reliable as anything out there. Yes there is always the possibility of something going wrong but there is that chance and possibility in any thing we hook up to our airplanes. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Meacham" <bruceme(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Flight Model
Date: May 13, 2000
I hit send way too soon. Installation assumes you understand how to unzip, this will work on either Mac or Win OS. To install: 1. Follow the instruction for installing X-Plane. I recomend you install the classic version as it is almost garenteed to work regardless of graphics cards and drivers, etc. 2. Then unzip this file: www.seanet.com/~bruceme/rv3.zip in the x-plane expiremental aircraft folder. 3. Boot X-Plane, from the file menu select open. And locate rv3.acf at the prompt. There you are on the runway in an RV-3! Some known issues: The power, handling and stability all seem about right, but I was unable to factor out adverse yaw the way that Dick did so many years ago with the very effective Frez(sp) aelarons. So there's a heavty amount of adverse yaw. I hope I can remidy this at some point. Also matter what. This is a known issue with the Sim. Please Enjoy! Bruce Meacham RV-3 3456B www.seanet.com/~bruceme/ShotGun.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Meacham <bruceme(at)seanet.com> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 2:02 PM Subject: Flight Model > I've published a flight model of an RV-3 in the X-Plane registry. If any of > you have the time to download the Free Demo Version of X-Plane > www.x-plane.com and the RV-3 design I've created, I would appreciate any > feedback. And yes, it even exhibits the same poor yaw dampening from too > little vertical stab. > > Bruce Meacham > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: May 13, 2000
Subject: RV-6/6A Elevator control tube length
-6/6A builders I could not find anything in the archive on this so here goes. For the forward elevator control tube, the one that is 3/4 in. diameter that goes from the control column to the bellcrank, sheet 40 of the plans shows a length of 47 1/2 inches. Assuming that this refers to the tube length without rod ends, the overall length between bolt hole centers with the rod ends set to the middle of their allowable travel would be 51 1/2 inches (center to center of the bolt holes). But, when I set the control column at about mid fore and aft travel and the bellcrank vertical as shown on the plans, it looks like an overall push rod length of 50 5/8 inches is required (or 46 5/8 for the tube without the rod ends). This 7/8 in. difference is more than the available adjustment in the rod ends. Can anyone remember what they did here. I'd sure hate to have to make this part over (I'm hoping there will be at least one part on this airplane that I only make once). Harry Crosby -6 finish kit (stumped again) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: May 13, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-6/6A Elevator control tube length
>more than the available adjustment in the rod ends. Can anyone remember >what they did here. I'd sure hate to have to make this part over (I'm hoping >there will be at least one part on this airplane that I only make once). Harry, I'm sure a 6 builder will step in and confirm this but what I had to do on my 8 for the push rod that goes from the bell crank to the elevator was "measure the distance first" and then cut the tube length. I was saved the expense of having to do it twice by a builder in San Antonio that informed me that the plans were WRONG! Imagine that? I ask Ken about this at Van's and he said that the recommended practice is to ALWAYS measure the distance first and then cut the tube. He said that there are so many variables that go into making a fuselage that some are longer and shorter than others. Maybe someone will see this in the archives and not have to make a push rod more than once. - Jim Andrews RV-8Aq ( fuse and finish ) N89JA (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Petri" <dpetri(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: GLASSAIR OUT OF BUSINESS
Date: May 13, 2000
---- Original Message ----- From: <JNice51355(at)aol.com> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 9:07 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: GLASSAIR OUT OF BUSINESS > > In a message dated 05/11/2000 12:14:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > dpetri(at)uswest.net writes: > > << they were forced to declare > bankruptcy earlier this week. >> > Simply a matter of opinion, I feel that it is a simple case of living too > high on the hog. Not my opinion, Jim. Ron Wanttaja wrote that he stopped by and found a sign on the door saying they were in bankruptcy. So maybe a matter of rumor, eh? Dave RV-6 Preview Plans (the credit card keeps calling, "use me, use me...") ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2000
From: KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: Flight cards
Flight cards should be used on your test flights. They help you keep track of what you are going to do before you go flying, what you are doing once you are in the air, and what you did and didn't do once you get back on the ground. I used them and wouldn't test fly without them. I had a set series that went over all the things I needed to accomplish to complete my test flights. (Early on, they helped me to dream of what I would be doing once the ol' girl was flying.) They changed from my initial set as my goals for each flight changed, and sometimes I would take two or three flight cards up in case I needed to do extra things or if I wasn't able to do what I set out to do (ceilings low for time to climb tests, for example.) Do you have to have them? No, of course not. But, especially on that first flight, there is so much going through your head and things you want to do, it is nice to look down at your card and remind yourself that grinning and looking around in amazement were not the only things you went up to do today. I might be able to summon mine up and post them if anyone is interested. Notice I said might. I can at least bring up the first ten or so to give ideas. Michael N232 Suzie Q tested and mighty glad for it..................... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2000
From: KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: Switching fuel tanks
>People who don't regularly fly a plane in witch you switch tanks get a little >aggravated about it so they ask the question why.... Switching tanks in flight: I switch mine every half hour. It keeps the airplane in better balance and keeps me up on what is going on a little more. I am on the right tank from 0 to 30 minutes, left tank from 30 to 60 minutes. That way: right tank, right side of the clock, left tank, left side. I also make it a habit of looking at the guages to take a purposeful survey of the engine, fuel, airspeed, etc. I keep track on my travel log when cross country and just take mental notes when out "going up". ("Cha' fly this morning? Where'd you go?" 'Up.') I like switching tanks. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVHI(at)aol.com
Date: May 13, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-6/6A Elevator control tube length
Same experience here. Ended up cutting the rod about 5/8 -7/8" shorter as I remember. You can get a new threaded end piece, or spend hours saving & drilling out the old one like I did. It was a real pain to get the existing rivit holes to line up with no slop. Easier to get new end piece. L.Adamson RV6A finish ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2000
From: gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: flap usage
Here is a question for you allready flying. What predominant flap settings do you use. like... 0, 1/2, and full 0, 1/3, 2/3, full or do you go in degrees, like... 10 for shortfield/heavy t.o., 20 on base, 40 on final, 10 to slow down. Just wondering what the prefered flap settings are out there Gert -- Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227, any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: Flight cards
Date: May 13, 2000
> I might be able to summon mine up and post them if anyone is interested. > Notice I said might. I can at least bring up the first ten or so to give > ideas. > > Michael > N232 Suzie Q > tested and mighty glad for it..................... Michael, YES, please post them. In fact I'd be willing to put them on my web site for download if folks like them. What file format are they? Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500, not flying www.rv-8.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2000
From: KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: flap usage
>What predominant flap settings do you use. like... Flaps are cool. Take off: one notch: 20 degrees Landing: two notches: 40 degrees. I've noticed the flap lever allows the flaps to come up some in flight so it is more like 35 degrees landing. I know some pilots that use no flaps on take off as the RV series takes off so soon anyway; but to me, the sooner the better. I like the way the airplane performs on final with two notches better than none or one notch. Part of your flight testing, and later once you get the airplane figured out, is to go out and shoot a ton of landings, using no flaps, one notch, two notch and see what YOU like, not what I like. What do slips feel like? How slow can you come down the final ramp? What is it like to have one notch on final and plunk on two? Or to have two, then take one off? What about emergency landings? (I find with emergency landings, I use my flaps to help regulate where I am trying to get to: putting on flaps, taking them off and on again, then full flaps on short final. Yes, I am watching speed and have already tried this at altitude.) Every landing I do, I am seeing a carrier deck, and trying to be "on the ball" on every landing: centerline, speed, landing right here. EERrrrk, trap third wire. (Not full throttle at the trap, though.) Fly a lot, learn what your airplane has to teach you. Flaps are cool. Michael RV4 N232 Suzie Q ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Alternator 0-360-A1A
Date: May 13, 2000
List: I have the alternator bracket kit from Vans and was wondering if anyone has a recommendation as to what alternator in the 50 or 60 Amp range is a good fit with this bracket kit? I was thinking a Honda Unit with internal regulator and Crowbar over voltage protection as available from "The AeroElectric Connection." (RV-6-QB installing Navaid on the right wing tip) Tom in Ohio (362CT) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Re: RV-6/6A Elevator control tube length
Date: May 13, 2000
> -6/6A builders > > I could not find anything in the archive on this so here goes. For the > forward elevator control tube, the one that is 3/4 in. diameter that goes > from the control column to the bellcrank, sheet 40 of the plans shows a > length of 47 1/2 inches. Assuming that this refers to the tube length > without rod ends, the overall length between bolt hole centers with the rod > ends set to the middle of their allowable travel would be 51 1/2 inches > (center to center of the bolt holes). But, when I set the control column at > about mid fore and aft travel and the bellcrank vertical as shown on the > plans, it looks like an overall push rod length of 50 5/8 inches is required > (or 46 5/8 for the tube without the rod ends). This 7/8 in. difference is > more than the available adjustment in the rod ends. Can anyone remember > what they did here. I'd sure hate to have to make this part over (I'm hoping > there will be at least one part on this airplane that I only make once). I don't remember the actual length vs drawing, but I believe the best sequence is this: 1) mount the elevators, 2) relieve the elevator spar flange as necessary for down travel, 2.5) build and mount the down travel stop, 3) relieve the elevator horns if necessary to get the required up travel (don't forget a stop plate on the front side of the last bulkhead), 4) neutralize the elevators and aft bellcrank, which will determine the length of the aft pushrod, 4.5) mount the aft pushrod, 5) starting with the front pushrod on the lengthy side, tape the pushrod ends in, install it and see if you get full elevator travel. With the elevators full up against their stop, the yoke on the stick weldment should be 1/8" aft of F604, if I recall correctly. This is ultimately what will determine neutral stick position. Also, most have to grind a bit of the yoke which holds the forward end of the forward pushrod to get full up elevator. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: wire routing
Date: May 13, 2000
> Can someone pleas suggest some good anchoring locations for the #2 & #4 > wires going to the starter and alternator. My starter solenoid is on > the firewall, but I am not sure where to anchor it inbetween the > firewall and the starter itself. Same goes for the alternator. Under the cylinders, above the induction tubes. Anchor to adel clamps bolted to the engine case. Alternately run them inside a firesleeve and wire tie the firesleeve to the induction tube coupler hoses. The firesleeve provides heat protection from the exhaust pipes but more importantly protects from chafing since they're sitting on top of the induction tube hose clamps. Plus they're still not that far from the oil line, so its good protection either way. If you have a C/S prop do NOT adel clamp them to that...! Keep the high voltage lines away from fluid lines. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R ( 75 hrs) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Nolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com>
Subject: Cheap Dutchman
Date: May 13, 2000
Listers, In light of Glasair going out of business I'd like to tell you a story about Van. A friend of mine went to Oregon to see Van's factory sometime around 1990. When he got there he asked to speak to Van. He was directed to an old school bus. There he found Van in a pair of old coveralls gutting the inside of the bus to convert it into a camper. My friend said the pitiful part about it was that he wouldn't have drug the damn thing across the road if Van had gave it to him. Now that's wanting to save money awful bad. Every year I go to Sun-N-Fun and see the displays. Lancair's and Glasairs have the best tents with all the trimmings. Then there's Van, same old tent ( he's had to have had the same tent for the last ten years ) I've often wondered why Van doesn't spruce up his advertisement, after all he sells more kits than all of the rest put together ( assumption ). I guess now we know why he doesn't, and I've got a new attitude about advertisement dollars. Jim Nolan N444JN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ENewton57(at)aol.com
Date: May 13, 2000
Subject: Wing Spar ooops
Hi all, Just made a major oops in the wing spar. I drilled the tie down bracket in place, (including the top bolt hole that passes through the spar web and two flange strips) and was getting ready to drill the hole where the tie down ring passes through the spar flange when to my horror I realized that I had just put the tie down bracket with the threaded end facing the top of the spar. No problem to turn it around but now I have an extra hole in my flange strips (where the top bolt goes through the tie down bracket, spar web and through two flange strips. I also have an extra hole in the spar web as well. Now what? Thanks for any advise. I'll probably call Van's on Monday as well but would like some input from the group. Thanks, Eric Newton Long Beach, MS RV-6A N57ME (reserved) (Working on Wing Spars) Eric's RV-6A Construction Page ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Vacume and fuel
Date: May 13, 2000
> High wing planes don't have this problem since the gravity feed head pressure will insure even flow. > Hey, Joe: The high wing planes don't really avoid the fuel flow problem. Based upon my student days it's my impression that a some high wing planes on any long flight may develop a slightly wing low condition. Since this could favour the fuel flow TO/FROM the low wing that wing could get heavier and you end up chasing the trim. I think that Van has the best "fuel management system" - based upon simple discipline and postive control by the pilot. Physical check before flight and switch tanks on the half hour (buzzer alert??), use the gages to verify your procedure only. The "Both" option will eventually cause you a fuel starvation problem. Check the frequency of this in accident reports. Reliance on electronic instruments for fuel management makes it easy to get out of the "positive control" mode (Hey, Bubba, this expesive instrumment means I don't even have to think about that routine stuff). We all know that fuel starvation is pretty common. It's a "Duh!" situation like wheels up landings. IMHO ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2000
From: gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: flap usage
Hey Micheal Of course, you are right. What ever makes it tick for me. I was just wondering on what kind of indication to use and what the major tick marks would be. i.e. count 4 secs on base, another 4 on final.....paint so stripes on the aileron to compare flap angle..., use some indicator lights for 10, 20, 30, 40 degree flap pos.... Gert KostaLewis wrote: > > > >What predominant flap settings do you use. like... > > Flaps are cool. > > Take off: one notch: 20 degrees > Landing: two notches: 40 degrees. > > I've noticed the flap lever allows the flaps to come up some in flight so > it is more like 35 degrees landing. I know some pilots that use no flaps on > take off as the RV series takes off so soon anyway; but to me, the sooner > the better. I like the way the airplane performs on final with two notches > better than none or one notch. > > Part of your flight testing, and later once you get the airplane figured > out, is to go out and shoot a ton of landings, using no flaps, one notch, > two notch and see what YOU like, not what I like. What do slips feel like? > How slow can you come down the final ramp? What is it like to have one > notch on final and plunk on two? Or to have two, then take one off? What > about emergency landings? (I find with emergency landings, I use my flaps > to help regulate where I am trying to get to: putting on flaps, taking them > off and on again, then full flaps on short final. Yes, I am watching speed > and have already tried this at altitude.) > > Every landing I do, I am seeing a carrier deck, and trying to be "on the > ball" on every landing: centerline, speed, landing right > here. EERrrrk, trap third wire. > (Not full throttle at the trap, though.) > > Fly a lot, learn what your airplane has to teach you. > > Flaps are cool. > > Michael > RV4 N232 Suzie Q > -- Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227, any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "The Stribling's" <bbattery(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Vacume and fuel
Date: May 13, 2000
Thanks to all who respond I am just learning to fly so this is all new to me. I will get in to the habit of switching tanks and I think the trick with the clock is great. Back to priming Thanks for the info Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Re: Engine info
Date: May 13, 2000
Hi Jeff: Just wanted to let you know in case you have not made a decision on your engine that I was able to pick up a premium first run core this week and will be having it overhauled by Aero Sport Power and it will be available in about a month. It is a O360 A3A and is constant speed capable. This is the wide deck engine with heavy cylinders and is rated at 180 HP. Depending what we find on the tear down the price will be right at $14750.00 US. This will also carry the standard Aero Sport warranty. If you have no interest maybe some of your friends could use it. These premium first run cores are getting scare. It was removed from a wind damaged aircraft with no damage to the engine or the prop. Regards Eustace Bowhay 250 675 4428 -----Origina l Message----- From: Jeff Orear <jorear(at)mari.net> Date: Monday, May 08, 2000 7:35 PM Subject: RV-List: Engine info > >Greetings: > >This is a question for the engine gurus amongst us. I have an opportunity >to purchase an engine and I am not sure if it is applicable to the RV6A that >I am building. > >The engine is a HO-360-E1AD of 180 hp with a solid core crank....therefore >fixed pitch. Yes, the "H" indicates that it is a Horizontal Helicopter >engine. It is apparently fuel injected per information from the seller. >The history of this engine is an over-rev at initial run-ups after >installation in a new helicopter. The engine will be completely overhauled >with all the appropriate new parts. As of now, no firm price has been >mentioned, but if it is attractive, I need to know if I should make a move >on it. > >My question is if this is an engine that will fit in a 6A. As there is no >carb, I assume that this is not a factor regarding the nosewheel strut. Any >red flags about this engine? I am confident that it will be a sound engine >after OH, so that is not a concern. I just don't want to be faced with a >multitude of mods to "make" it work. > >As always, Thanks in advance folks > > >Regards, > >Jeff Orear >RV6A >Peshtigo, WI >Sealing second tank > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: May 13, 2000
Subject: Re: Alternator 0-360-A1A
> List: I have the alternator bracket kit from Vans and was wondering if > anyone has a recommendation as to what alternator in the 50 or 60 Amp > range is a good fit with this bracket kit? The low cost end of the market includes the $40 junkyard Mitsubishi alternator plus $50 for new bearings and brushes, modified to use an external regulator such as the one that Van sells (compatible with the crowbar overvoltage unit Bob sells). Details on the conversion are at http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a , then click on the alternator link. I have about 60 hours on mine, with good luck so far. Tim ****** Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99 TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Noel" <bnoel(at)ausa.net>
Subject: Electric flaps
Date: May 13, 2000
I know it has probably been addressed, but how much is Vans conversion to electric flaps and how hard is it? Also, how do you get to the archives? Admitting my ignorance. Would love to not have to do the butt shuffle pattern dance to Oshkosh this tear. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TColeE(at)aol.com
Date: May 13, 2000
Subject: Re: flap usage
One day in the phase one of the flight testing I did 96 touch and goes, having so much fun couldn't stop, flaps are something you will have to adjust to your own comfort level. I did a little on down wind a little more on base and a little more on final as I felt I needed them. You will figure it out and enjoy the experience of coming in high and floating down, long and slow on final, and some times come in almost perfect. Terry E. Cole N468TC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dgmurray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Electric flaps
Date: May 13, 2000
Bill - I just changed over to electrics and I found the job very straight forward. I cut and welded the flap cross shaft myself and made all the 'housing' pieces myself. AlI I purchased from Vans was the flap motor. The entire modification took under ten hours. The only negative is the loss of space between the seats. There is a fellow on the list that made a flap change over to electric and installed the flap motor over against the right baggage wall. The article is in the archives. Hope this helps ----------------------------------------------------- Doug Murray RV-6 C-GRPA Southern Alberta ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Noel" <bnoel(at)ausa.net> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 8:58 PM Subject: RV-List: Electric flaps > > I know it has probably been addressed, but how much is Vans conversion to > electric flaps and how hard is it? Also, how do you get to the archives? > Admitting my ignorance. Would love to not have to do the butt shuffle > pattern dance to Oshkosh this tear. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVHI(at)aol.com
Date: May 13, 2000
Subject: Re: Electric flaps
Archives search : http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVHI(at)aol.com
Date: May 14, 2000
Subject: Re: Wing Spar ooops
You will most likely find that there is no problem at all. The rivet spacing is already 1 & 1/2" with the hole for the tiedown in the middle. 3/4" spacing is more than plenty for a 3/16" hole. As long as there is more than adequate edge distance & spacing between the holes, I see no problem at all. I'd just leave the hole, or I suppose you could put a flush rivet in it. L.Adamson RV6A finish ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Nielsen" <Mark.Nielsen@fiedler-lp.com>
Subject: instrument panel labeling
Date: May 13, 2000
> > I used decal paper and an ALPS MD-1600 printer on my > personal computer and > made my own custom decals. Looks just like silk screening. > Durability is > still a question which I hope to answer over the next few years. > I printed my own placards on Avery clear laser labels. (I have a very light gray panel.) I also used these labels on the exterior for "No Step" placards on the flaps and for fuel type and quantity on the fuel tanks. All of the labels still look like new after three years, except for those on the fuel tanks. After about a year, they start to become discolored (because of spilled fuel). When they start to look ratty, I just pull them off an stick on new ones. When I had my FAA inspection, most of the squawks were for placards. It was a cinch to change them. Mark Nielsen RV-6; 487 hrs. Green Bay, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com
Date: May 14, 2000
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Alum polishing compound recommendation?
In a message dated 5/13/00 8:11:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, elrond(at)xprt.net writes: > Anyone got a recommendation for a brand of aluminum polishing compound? > Any tricks to speed up the process? Hi Bruce: Below please find two links. One is for a company in Canada. They give a lot of info on polishing and their US counter parts. The other is a company I am going to use to buy supplies to polish my Airstream(s). Great info. Their site is under reconstruction this weekend, So book mark them and look them over next week. Aircraft Exterior Polish, Aircraft Polishing products Lake Country Manufacturing I hope this helps. Regards, John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar ineCore (Chick the blue link to go there) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2000
From: John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
Subject: It LOOKS like an empennage...
Let's see...five months, one SportAir workshop, one HS-610, two HS-614s, one HS-411PP, and 102 hours of work (not including workbench/jig construction and several hours of head-scratching and mindless ranting and raving as I learned how to read plans and think ahead), I finished the empennage to my RV-6!!!!!! *jumping up and down* Just had to tell someone. :-) Mucho gracias to Van's for their patient hand-holding on the several occasions I called them with crayon-level questions; the company is a class act and I appreciate the efforts they've put into making the tail kit as easy to build as possible. Thanks to those members of this list who responded to my queries, and a BIG thanks to those builders who are thoughtful enough to put photos and descriptions of their projects on the World Wide Web; I would not have even thought of starting this project without the on-line information that's available, especially the construction notes that folks have posted. And a grateful tip of the hat to James Clark and the RV-6 factory crew with EAA 242 in Columbia, SC, for the inspiration they've given me. I'll be back up there soon for another look at your projects and a trip to the Lizard's Thicket! Semper Fi John Lawson RV-6...already started on the VS...waiting for the wing kit to arrive ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2000
From: Scott <acepilot(at)win.bright.net>
Subject: Re: flap usage
Having only owned airplanes with no flaps at all, I'm wondering if a notch of flaps really does shorten the takeoff roll? In the flight manuals for Cessna 150's, flaps are reserved for SOFT field takeoffs. The manual states zero degrees for SHORT filed takeoffs. I would think that if anything, albeite probably unoticeable to most pilots, taking off with say 10 degrees flaps may slightly increase the roll due to added drag? I know most would probably say you get more lift with a n otch of flaps on and thus get off the ground sooner. Seems you would be getting more lift only on the part of the wings where the flaps are located. Why not use the whole wing and start the takeoff roll with the stick all the way back and ease it forward as speed builds. In other words, a soft field takeoff without the flaps. If your whole goal is to break ground the soonest, seems this would be the best way...now to clear that dreaded 50 foot obstacle, that's a DIFFERENT story. These are just the ramblings of a "rookie" with a bit over 500 hours and about 400 of those getting in to or out of my dad's strip which is 1500 long and trees at both ends. Haven't tried it with an RV yet ;) Scott RV4 Tailkit KostaLewis wrote: > > > >What predominant flap settings do you use. like... > > Flaps are cool. > > Take off: one notch: 20 degrees > Landing: two notches: 40 degrees. > > I've noticed the flap lever allows the flaps to come up some in flight so > it is more like 35 degrees landing. I know some pilots that use no flaps on > take off as the RV series takes off so soon anyway; but to me, the sooner > the better. I like the way the airplane performs on final with two notches > better than none or one notch. > > Part of your flight testing, and later once you get the airplane figured > out, is to go out and shoot a ton of landings, using no flaps, one notch, > two notch and see what YOU like, not what I like. What do slips feel like? > How slow can you come down the final ramp? What is it like to have one > notch on final and plunk on two? Or to have two, then take one off? What > about emergency landings? (I find with emergency landings, I use my flaps > to help regulate where I am trying to get to: putting on flaps, taking them > off and on again, then full flaps on short final. Yes, I am watching speed > and have already tried this at altitude.) > > Every landing I do, I am seeing a carrier deck, and trying to be "on the > ball" on every landing: centerline, speed, landing right > here. EERrrrk, trap third wire. > (Not full throttle at the trap, though.) > > Fly a lot, learn what your airplane has to teach you. > > Flaps are cool. > > Michael > RV4 N232 Suzie Q > -- --Scott-- 1986 Corben Junior Ace N3642 RV-4 under construction (tail feathers) Gotta Fly or Gonna Die! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2000
From: Doug Gray <douggray(at)ihug.com.au>
Subject: Re: Tank dies
> IMHO tank dies are not needed. I agree. Doug Gray ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2000
From: Doug Gray <douggray(at)ihug.com.au>
Subject: Re: rudder rib/horn rivet question
Bob, Yes I had the same problem but considering what it is sandwiched between (.125 +.032) and that the primary consideration for the edge distance is tear away I'd press on. Doug Gray RV6 Wings, Sydney Oz > in drilling the bottom rudder rib to spar i have a hole(cener) to edge of > less than 2x. > instead of 8/32 i have 6/32 on all four holes. remember this rib is > sandwiched in between the rudder horn and the horn helps cover the rib > flange. order another or go ahead????????????????????? if it was not > sandwiched between the rudder horn and spar i would redo but this case is a > little different with the help of the horn. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: May 14, 2000
Subject: Re: fuel inj vs. carb
dear listers i'm still looking for an engine, here are a few questions. if i go with fuel injection, do i still need, 1. the scoop on the cowel 2. carb heat 3. mixture control what are the benifits of both, and disadvantages of both. thanks scott tampa rv6a cut canopy yesterday for tipper, piece of cake !!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net>
Subject: Re: Alternator 0-360-A1A
Date: May 14, 2000
Tom, I'm in the process of doing this same thing and will pass along a couple discoveries. I went to the junkyard without my list of choices and asked for the wrong model. The (wrong choice) alternator was $105 so knowing I must have made a mistake, asked for a mid '90's Honda. They found one for a '93 Civic (Nippon-D...) and charged $75 plus tax. They couldn't tell me how much output capacity (in Amps) but I figure it being a modern auto has to be worth a gamble. The pulley is of serpentine type and will have to be swapped. The measurement of the mount is 2.230". I'm curious as to the inside dimensions of Van's mount. Will you post this please? ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom & Cathy Ervin <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 8:02 PM Subject: RV-List: Alternator 0-360-A1A > > List: I have the alternator bracket kit from Vans and was wondering if > anyone has a recommendation as to what alternator in the 50 or 60 Amp range > is a good fit with this bracket kit? > I was thinking a Honda Unit with internal regulator and Crowbar over > voltage protection as available from "The AeroElectric Connection." > (RV-6-QB installing Navaid on the right wing tip) > > Tom > in Ohio (362CT) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jefft" <jefft(at)chatlink.com>
Subject: Re: Engine info
Date: May 14, 2000
Thanks Eustace but I already have my 0-320 installed. Your engine is a perfect deal though so I'll spread the word. Later, JT ----- Original Message ----- From: Eustace Bowhay <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 7:35 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine info > > Hi Jeff: > Just wanted to let you know in case you have not made a decision on your > engine that I was able to pick up a premium first run core this week and > will be having it overhauled by Aero Sport Power and it will be available in > about a month. It is a O360 A3A and is constant speed capable. This is the > wide deck engine with heavy cylinders and is rated at 180 HP. > > Depending what we find on the tear down the price will be right at $14750.00 > US. This will also carry the standard Aero Sport warranty. > > If you have no interest maybe some of your friends could use it. These > premium first run cores are getting scare. It was removed from a wind > damaged aircraft with no damage to the engine or the prop. > > Regards > > Eustace Bowhay > 250 675 4428 > -----Origina > l Message----- > From: Jeff Orear <jorear(at)mari.net> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Monday, May 08, 2000 7:35 PM > Subject: RV-List: Engine info > > > > > >Greetings: > > > >This is a question for the engine gurus amongst us. I have an opportunity > >to purchase an engine and I am not sure if it is applicable to the RV6A > that > >I am building. > > > >The engine is a HO-360-E1AD of 180 hp with a solid core crank....therefore > >fixed pitch. Yes, the "H" indicates that it is a Horizontal Helicopter > >engine. It is apparently fuel injected per information from the seller. > >The history of this engine is an over-rev at initial run-ups after > >installation in a new helicopter. The engine will be completely overhauled > >with all the appropriate new parts. As of now, no firm price has been > >mentioned, but if it is attractive, I need to know if I should make a move > >on it. > > > >My question is if this is an engine that will fit in a 6A. As there is no > >carb, I assume that this is not a factor regarding the nosewheel strut. > Any > >red flags about this engine? I am confident that it will be a sound engine > >after OH, so that is not a concern. I just don't want to be faced with a > >multitude of mods to "make" it work. > > > >As always, Thanks in advance folks > > > > > >Regards, > > > >Jeff Orear > >RV6A > >Peshtigo, WI > >Sealing second tank > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ferdfly(at)aol.com
Date: May 14, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-6/6A Elevator control tube length
In a message dated 5/13/00 4:27:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, RVHI(at)aol.com writes: << Same experience here. Ended up cutting the rod about 5/8 -7/8" shorter as I remember. You can get a new threaded end piece, or spend hours saving & drilling out the old one like I did. It was a real pain to get the existing rivit holes to line up with no slop. Easier to get new end piece. L.Adamson RV6A finish >> From the git-go I didn`t like those rivets, I had my tube ends welded on. Fred LaForge RV-4 flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)ispchannel.com>
Subject: RV CFI's near Pensacola FL?
Date: May 14, 2000
Hi all, I'm trying to find an instructor with an RV near Pensacola, FL for an insurance checkout. I've been trying to contact a local RV-6 owner/CFI, but haven't had any luck. He's retired, and could be anywhere in his plane now. Anyway, in case I can't get in touch with the local guy in time, I need to line up an alternate plan. Jeff Ludwig in Jacksonville, FL is the only other CFI that I've heard of, but that's still a 6 hour drive. Anyone else? Thanks, Russell Duffy Navarre, FL RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (inspection soon) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2000
From: Stefan King <stefanking_1999(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Jack Kane in Amboy Washington
Sorry to hear about this, Bill... unfortunately there are 'unscrupulous' folks out there, even in the RV community. What goes around comes around. He'll be at a fly-in someday and we'll all know his reputation. BTW, I'm still having fun up there in the skies over Sanford, just got back from another dual session with the instructor. Would have gone out for an hour of solo, but he wouldn't recommend it due to low clouds forming over the airport and out in the practice area. Did I tell you my instructor has taken a job in Pennsylvania and will be moving in about 6 weeks??? I'm not happy about this, as I thought I'd be with him until the end (I projected Sept. timeframe), but I'm working on a deal where I could take off a month from work and just go flying every day with him until I get my license. So things may happen quickly... I'll keep you posted. Good luck with the wing kit fiasco. Stefan --- Bill Shook wrote: > > > Well, now I'm a bit frustrated (Ok, I'm furious). > Jack Kane advertised a > wing kit, engine mount and gear legs and a steel > stand for sale on > barnstormers. I answered that add, agreed to buy Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2000
From: Warren Gretz <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com>
list-aviation , list-avionics , list-ez , list-glasair , list-homebuilt , list-lancair , list-rocket , list-zenith
Subject: Gretz Aero Products
Hello listers, I have been told lately that a few builders have been trying to get in touch with me. Several months ago my e-mail address changed when I got my website up. My current e-mail address is info(at)gretzaero.com My website address is www.gretzaero.com You should take a look at the products I make and sell for builders at this website. The most popular item is the heated pitot tube mounting bracket. I also sell heated pitot tubes at a great price. There are several other items there I am sure you will be interested in also. Please contact me by e-mail, or the phone if you have questions. Warren Gretz Gretz Aero 303-770-3811 evenings and weekends or leave a message on the recorder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Taildraggers(at)aol.com
Date: May 14, 2000
Subject: Re: flap usage
Gert: After 450 hrs on RV6 N894CD, I believe Van had it right from the start. With my manual flaps built as per plans, you have 0, 20 (first notch), and 40 (second and last notch). With 160 hp, and constant speed, here in Longmont, CO, I can take off and land with any flap setting. This is a wide open airport with 5000 ft runway. Almost always, I takeoff at 20, and land at 40. 40 helps keep the speed down, and gives the best (though not all that great) visibility over the nose. 20 for gusty conditions. Very little stall speed change betw. 20 and 40. About 4 kts between 0 and 20. Good luck. Doug Sykes ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Taildraggers(at)aol.com
Date: May 14, 2000
Subject: Re: Alternator 0-360-A1A
Tom & Cathy: I have 160 hp, and bought a B & C 40 amp alternator, with crowbar OV protection. Both have worked without flaw. The ov protection worked so well when my original Ford regulator went off the high end that I never saw the high voltage indication on my ov/uv light, also bought from Nuckolls or B&C. I have dual GPS (not very much current), VMI 1000 engine inst., and elec gyro. Two big landing lights. 40 amps has been plenty, though you could exceed that draw with absolutely everything turned on. Lndg/taxi lights are 90/130 watts each. Good luck. Doug Sykes ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2000
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: Cheap Dutchman
(Snip) > Every year I go to Sun-N-Fun and see the displays. Lancair's and Glasairs >have the best tents with all the trimmings. Then there's Van, same old tent >( he's had to have had the same tent for the last ten years ) I've often >wondered why Van doesn't spruce up his advertisement, after all he sells >more kits than all of the rest put together ( assumption ). > I guess now we know why he doesn't, and I've got a new attitude about >advertisement dollars. >Jim Nolan >N444JN (Snip) So true! Same thing at Arlington Living this close to the factory I get up there often. I have said many times the nice thing about dealing with Van is that he doesn't want to spend his money and he does everything he can afford to do to keep me from spending mine. I have wished many times I would have taken his and some of his employees advise... build it light! Thereby building it cheap! Next time for sure! I almost fell off chair when I saw those full page adds on the RV-9A. There has to be a plan to spend that kind of money. Denny ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Helming" <rhelming(at)evansville.net>
Subject: Re: TEST Cards
Date: May 14, 2000
Thanks. Lots of data here. It will take many hours to test a plane even if all goes right from the get go. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 3:44 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: TEST Cards ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Still undecided
Date: May 14, 2000
Oh NO??? How about the guy that cracked when his improperly constructed winglet broke??? Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shelby Smith" <shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 6:11 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Still undecided > > You know our chapter met at a members home last month to view his highly > modified Varieze design. In the course detailing his ideas he made the > statement that no Variezes have had wings fall off like RVs. Well, needless > to say that caused several throats to need clearing in the crowd. But, sadly > this guy didn't realize how even ill informed statements like that hurt us > all. Clearly, he didn't know what he was talking about, but I am still > chapped that anyone would, even in jest, make a statement like that. > > Glad to see you back Jerry. > > > -- > Shelby Smith > shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com > RV6A - Skinning Fuselage - 200HP > N95EB - reserved > > ---------- > >From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com> > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Re: RV-List: Still undecided > >Date: Sat, May 6, 2000, 2:19 PM > > > > > > > You should also be fair and tell the newcomers about how > > much testing and re-examining of the spar was done after > > the accident. Don't just tell one side without giving all > > the facts. BTW tell me about the average engineer saying > > hmmmmm. Where they there when testing was being done? > > Were they doing any analysis of the spar? are they aircraft engineers? > > You may not be starting a war but you did say newcomers should be given > > ALL the information available then you proceed to leave the other half > > out. > > That makes me go hmmmmm. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvmils(at)aol.com
Date: May 14, 2000
Subject: Re: Randolph 912 slosh
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Hall" <robjhall(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: flap usage
Date: May 14, 2000
> snip > or do you go in degrees, like... > > > 10 for shortfield/heavy t.o., 20 on base, 40 on final, 10 to slow down. Those are the basic base and final numbers I use. I would probably use 20 for soft/short field takeoff. There is is very little apparent increase in drag for up to 20 degrees of flaps. You won't slow down much with 10 or even 20. Anyway, in an RV you are already slow before you can put the flaps down. Bob Hall, RV-6, Colorado Springs 150+ hrs and in the paint shop ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvmils(at)aol.com
Date: May 14, 2000
Subject: Re: Randolph 912 slosh
Here's what I'm doing right now. First I cut a 5 inch hole in each bay with a fly cutter. I had a piece of 3"x1/12x 3/16 aluminum with 2 #30 holes drilled on each side of a 1/4 hole. I would pop rivet this temp plate to the bay and use it as a guide for the fly cutter. After cutting all 8 holes I than used shears to cut my covers from .040. I than drilled the covers to each bay and scribe a number on the cover and bay so I would know which cover went to each bay. I may be able to use standard rivets by starting outboard and working in, if not I have already ordered the fuel tank pop rivets from Van's. Next I went and bought a cheap respirator and started cleaning with MEK and course scotch bright pads. I also use sponges to keep the tanks nice and wet with MEEK. Prior to doing this I tested MEK on Pro Seal and the 912 in a coffee can for 1 hour, the MEK had no effect on the Pro Seal and the 912 just wipe off. I know this sounds like a pain and it is, but the whole job took 3 days to clean. I'm just waiting on the pop rivets and Pro Seal to come in from Van's. I will put a layer of Pro seal in each fuel tank prior to closing. I recommend doing this, flying at night, on take off or anytime you don't want to worry about your fuel system clogging. Blue Skies, Carry Mills 334 598-6226 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: wire routing
Date: May 14, 2000
> > If you have a C/S prop do NOT adel clamp them to that...! Keep the high > voltage lines away from fluid lines. Clarification: I meant to say "If you have a C/S prop do NOT adel clamp the wires to the C/S oil line, which runs under the cylinders on the right side of the engine." Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R ( 75 hrs) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator 0-360-A1A
>Tom & Cathy: I have 160 hp, and bought a B & C 40 amp alternator, with >crowbar OV protection. Both have worked without flaw. The ov protection >worked so well when my original Ford regulator went off the high end that I >never saw the high voltage indication on my ov/uv light, also bought from >Nuckolls or B&C. I'm confused. What kind of light did you have installed in conjuction with your "Ford" regulator . . . was it the OV/LV light from B&C? If so, this product flashes if and only if bus voltage exceeds 16.0 volts and illuminates steady if but voltage drops below 13.0. If you have ov protection installed, one would EXPECT to never see the OV light "flash" due to an OV condition . . . it's all over in 20-50 milliseconds. After the alternator shuts down, the light should come on steady showing that the bus voltage is low since the alternator is now off line. >I have dual GPS (not very much current), VMI 1000 engine >inst., and elec gyro. Two big landing lights. 40 amps has been plenty, >though you could exceed that draw with absolutely everything turned on. >Lndg/taxi lights are 90/130 watts each. Good luck. Doug Sykes With everything on, you should still be well under 40A although depending on pulley ratios, you may not have full output available from the alternator when throttled back for decent. This is why we like to keep the small pulley on the B&C alternator as it comes from the factory. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) ( still understand knothing. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz)
Date: May 14, 2000
Subject: RV's for $ale
A friend is looking for a 4, 6, 8 or Rocket. I guess he isn't too picky. He has previously owned a 4 and wants a flying copy. Send any responses to: TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net Thanks, Joe Waltz 8 @ DWH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "El Lobo" <6430(at)axion.net>
Subject: Fuel selector
Date: May 14, 2000
Hi Listers, Just out of curiosity, do all/any of you switch the fuel selector to OFF at the end of the day's flying ?? Just wondering about wear that's all...... Thanks, Lyle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: May 14, 2000
Subject: Re: Flight cards
In a message dated 5/13/00 3:56:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mikel(at)dimensional.com writes: << I might be able to summon mine up and post them if anyone is interested. >> Michael: I would definitely be interested. Seems like they would also be a valuable addition to the archives. Harry Crosby -6 Finish kit stuff (Hoping to fly someday) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: fuel inj vs. carb
Date: May 14, 2000
Scott, Some answers are below >From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: fuel inj vs. carb >Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 09:38:34 EDT > > >dear listers >i'm still looking for an engine, here are a few questions. >if i go with fuel injection, do i still need, > >1. the scoop on the cowel NO >2. carb heat NO >3. mixture control YES > >what are the benifits of both, and disadvantages of both. Fuel Injection does not need Carb heat and generally produces more power. But fuel injection costs more initially and can't be overhauled/fixed on your bench. Special instruments are needed for testing. > >thanks >scott >tampa >rv6a cut canopy yesterday for tipper, piece of cake !!!! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)aol.com
Date: May 14, 2000
Subject: Re: Cheap Dutchman
In regards to the 9 is it light enough that you can fly it under the proposed sport pilot license. If it is that will make the 9 be the biggest seller of them all if the sport pilot license passes. And it sounds like if will from what I heard from some EAA people this weekend. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel selector
Date: May 14, 2000
WHY???? Especially with the low wing configuration where in all fuel has to be pumped up. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "El Lobo" <6430(at)axion.net> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 2:48 PM Subject: RV-List: Fuel selector > > Hi Listers, > Just out of curiosity, do all/any of you switch the fuel > selector to OFF at the end of the day's flying ?? > Just wondering about wear that's all...... > Thanks, > Lyle > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2000
From: Andy <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: Our Dutchman
George True wrote: > The 9A offers this "typical" pilot a lot of RV-like performance, but with a lot > more of the stability and docile landing speeds that your lower-end spam-cans > have. I was not a high time pilot when I first flew my 6A. I had a lot of ultralight time, but my "real" plane time could not have been more than 10 hours per year during the previous 7-8 years. Still, I immediately (and somewhat surprisingly), found the RV-6 to be the most simple, straight forward, and easy plane to fly as I have ever flown. It has no bad habits and at no time did I ever feel that the plane was getting ahead of me. I can't imagine how the 9 could be significantly "easier". Surely not "easier" enough to justify the loss of the upper end of the curve. I was a little dissappointed when Van chose to commit his resources to the 9. But now that he has, I sure hope I was wrong. Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2000
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel selector
El Lobo wrote: > > > Hi Listers, > Just out of curiosity, do all/any of you switch the fuel > selector to OFF at the end of the day's flying ?? > Just wondering about wear that's all...... > Thanks, > Lyle > Don't think mine has been in the off position in 11 years. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Harris" <johnh(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RV-4 Lost
Date: May 14, 2000
At 1:30 pm Sunday, May 14, an RV-4, N45DR, lost power and crashed on takeoff from Cox Aerodrome, a private residential air park, in Apex, NC. The owner and pilot, of Raleigh, NC and his young nephew perished. The engine quit as the plane departed the runway and the aircraft impacted into a yard about two hundred feet to the left of the end of the runway. There was no fire and the canopy was not damaged in the crash. Pilot and passenger died shortly after being taken to hospital by EMT. Witnesses on the airport heard the engine sputter and then quit, saw the plane go down and were on the scene almost immediately. The pilot had owned the aircraft about three months and was an airline pilot. I have purposely omitted the pilot's name at this time. If you recognize the N number, please note that Denny had sold this plane earlier this year. With sadness John Harris Cary, NC RV9A N922JH (Reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: kickbutt Bill
Date: May 14, 2000
Chuck, Is that possible? He isn't returning my phone calls or emails (prior to sending the money I would get a return nearly immediately). Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: <GRAYK9(at)aol.com> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 1:24 AM Subject: RV-List: kickbutt Bill > > Bill Shook, > I work for an airline. Do you want a free pass to go kick ass? > > Chuck - RV6 (50%) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Re: Alternator 0-360-A1A
Date: May 14, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Barnes <skytop(at)corecomm.net> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 10:42 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternator 0-360-A1A > > > . The measurement of the mount is 2.230". > I'm curious as to the inside dimensions of Van's mount. Will you post this > please? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tom & Cathy Ervin <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 8:02 PM > Subject: RV-List: Alternator 0-360-A1A > > > > > > List: I have the alternator bracket kit from Vans and was wondering if > > anyone has a recommendation as to what alternator in the 50 or 60 Amp > range > > is a good fit with this bracket kit? > > I was thinking a Honda Unit with internal regulator and Crowbar over > > voltage protection as available from "The AeroElectric Connection." > > (RV-6-QB installing Navaid on the right wing tip) > > > > Tom > > in Ohio (362CT) > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Re: Alternator 0-360-A1A
Date: May 14, 2000
Tom: Vans bracket is 2.50 inches. I believe the instructions say shim to fit. Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Barnes <skytop(at)corecomm.net> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 10:42 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternator 0-360-A1A > > > swapped. The measurement of the mount is 2.230". > I'm curious as to the inside dimensions of Van's mount. Will you post this > please? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tom & Cathy Ervin <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 8:02 PM > Subject: RV-List: Alternator 0-360-A1A > > > > > > List: I have the alternator bracket kit from Vans and was wondering if > > anyone has a recommendation as to what alternator in the 50 or 60 Amp > range > > is a good fit with this bracket kit? > > I was thinking a Honda Unit with internal regulator and Crowbar over > > voltage protection as available from "The AeroElectric Connection." > > (RV-6-QB installing Navaid on the right wing tip) > > > > Tom > > in Ohio (362CT) > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: kickbutt Bill
Date: May 14, 2000
Dammit, I hate this reply to one answer and it goes to the whole list. Sorry for wasting the bandwidth AGAIN. Wouldn't it be nice if this didn't happen all the time..... Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 7:01 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: kickbutt Bill > > Chuck, > > Is that possible? He isn't returning my phone calls or emails (prior to > sending the money I would get a return nearly immediately). > > Bill > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <GRAYK9(at)aol.com> > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 1:24 AM > Subject: RV-List: kickbutt Bill > > > > > > Bill Shook, > > I work for an airline. Do you want a free pass to go kick ass? > > > > Chuck - RV6 (50%) > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 6A Baffle Geometry at Inlet C/S and S-Cowl
Date: May 14, 2000
I am finishing attaching the airseal fabric around the inlet and forward upper area on my O360, C/S prop and S-cowl on a 6A. I have cut off the inboard and outboard sides of the fiberglass inlet ducts that attach to the upper cowl so that the airseal material slides under them and seals to the cowl, rather than sealing to the inlet ducts. When the upper cowl is attached, I can curl two or three fingers just above and around the inboard inlet wall, where the two cowl halves join. This seems like a potential leak of air into the lower cowl, thus reducing the pressure differential between upper and lower cowl cavities. 1) How have others sealed this area: To cowl or to inlet ducts. 2) Do any others have leak paths in this area, and if so, how are the CHT's? Thanks! Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit Hampshire, IL C38 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6ARC(at)aol.com
Date: May 14, 2000
Subject: Re: Badge Offer Misunderstanding
Hi Steve, How do I get a badge and what do you want on them? Bob RV6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2000
From: KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: flap usage
>Flaps are cool. > >Take off: one notch: 20 degrees >Landing: two notches: 40 degrees. I knew I liked one notch of flaps on takeoff, but had forgotten exactly why, as I always use one notch (A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, etc.). Went out flying this morning and shot a bunch of stop and go's (you DO stop every time, don't you?) to see why. Oh, yeah, now I remember: this is for the tail dragging -4 -6 ones among us, but the gear can get pretty springy on takeoff as the weight is transferred from the wheels to the wing. One notch of flaps tends to make the gear not feel as springy. Makes for a straighter and not so "jumpy" a takeoff. You will know what I mean when you start to fly. Course, maybe it's just me........................... Nose draggers? Can't say. Probably not as noticeable an effect. I have and like manual flaps. I like the ability to pull some on at any given moment and have it instantaneous. (Oh, great: way to start a thread....). It does take a healthy yank if you are above 85 when you pull notch number two, but I figure it is a pretty good excuse to stay in shape. One of the exercises I do in my weight routine mimics this action. (Look like Mr. Universe? Na, I just wanna pull on my flaps without hurting myself.) Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q flaps are cool........... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pat_hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel selector
Date: May 14, 2000
Lyle: I'm not sure why, but for the past 10 years I have turned my fuel selector to off after a flight with no ill effects. Probably makes no difference either way, just personal preference--but be consistent. Also, I have often been asked why I always leave my flaps down. I guess for fear someone is going to step on them. You're probably thinking, better run a checklist if you're going to do either one--not a bad idea whether you do or not. Pat Hatch RV-4, N17PH @ INT RV-6, Fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: El Lobo <6430(at)axion.net> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 3:48 PM Subject: RV-List: Fuel selector > > Hi Listers, > Just out of curiosity, do all/any of you switch the fuel > selector to OFF at the end of the day's flying ?? > Just wondering about wear that's all...... > Thanks, > Lyle > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Osgood" <randbosgood(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Any second thoughts
Date: May 14, 2000
Another RV lost?? Does anybody else have second thoughts about continuing to build their RV after reading about these accidents? How do you reassure yourself and your family that you are not endangering yourself or your family? Just questions that sit in the back of my mind.... Rick Osgood ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Dickens" <mddickens(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Any second thoughts
Date: May 14, 2000
My thoughts...the RV is an airframe, not a complete airplane...you build the plane, you select the engine, you install the engine and you maintain the plane...how do we know he didn't have water in his fuel? I say keep building and keep in mind YOU are the manufacturer, not Van's Mark Dickens RV-8 Wings ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Osgood <randbosgood(at)peoplepc.com> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 9:21 PM Subject: RV-List: Any second thoughts > > Another RV lost?? Does anybody else have second thoughts about continuing to > build their RV after reading about these accidents? How do you reassure > yourself and your family that you are not endangering yourself or your > family? > > Just questions that sit in the back of my mind.... > > > Rick Osgood > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ollie Washburn" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Any second thoughts
Date: May 14, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Osgood <randbosgood(at)peoplepc.com> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 10:21 PM Subject: RV-List: Any second thoughts > > Another RV lost?? Does anybody else have second thoughts about continuing to > How many second thoughts do you have about driving your car after reading of so many auto accidents that happen EVERY day> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2000
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Cheap Dutchman
Micah Froese wrote: > > > Considering price, ease of building, and performance, the RV-9 beats not > only the Glastar but even gets into the Kitfox/Avid line. Two things really > struck me at Sun-n-Fun this year: the price of Glastars (I saw a built one > advertised for $125,000.00), and lighter aircraft that are intended for > Rotax 912s. One could easily build an RV-9 with a used engine for less than > these aircraft and wind up with a "real" airplane. Plus you wouldn't have to > deal with finishing composites or covering your creation with "rags". I dare > say the 9 will become one of the most popular planes out there. > > IMHO, > Micah Froese Careful now......don't get the "rag-lovers" stirred up! :-) A lot of us love "rag" airplanes. A J-3 or Pacer just wouldn't be the same if it had metal skin. For the right application, "rags" is good! Sam Buchanan (RV-6, builder of two rag airplanes, and previous rebuilder and owner of a J-3) "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2000
From: Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: F-804 spacer accuracy?
I'm ready to fabricate the spacer for my F-804 spar carrythrough bulkhead prior to installing it in the jig and I'm wondering what would constitute acceptable accuracy for thickness. My spar root ends are both 1 15/32" thick, but I don't have any means of cutting wood (or anything else) to the nearest 1/32". If I can come up with a 1.5" thick spacer, would the 'extra' 1/32" be a problem when I install my wings? What are other -8 builders doing in this area? -- Regards, Ken Balch Ashland, MA RV-8 #81125 floor ribs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Any second thoughts
Date: May 14, 2000
I don't believe the point was that the plane was unsafe and dangerous but a reminder that poor pillage can be! Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Dickens" <mddickens(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 7:45 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Any second thoughts > > My thoughts...the RV is an airframe, not a complete airplane...you build the > plane, you select the engine, you install the engine and you maintain the > plane...how do we know he didn't have water in his fuel? I say keep > building and keep in mind YOU are the manufacturer, not Van's > > Mark Dickens > RV-8 Wings > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rick Osgood <randbosgood(at)peoplepc.com> > To: rv-list > Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 9:21 PM > Subject: RV-List: Any second thoughts > > > > > > Another RV lost?? Does anybody else have second thoughts about continuing > to > > build their RV after reading about these accidents? How do you reassure > > yourself and your family that you are not endangering yourself or your > > family? > > > > Just questions that sit in the back of my mind.... > > > > > > Rick Osgood > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DFCPAC(at)aol.com
Date: May 14, 2000
Subject: canopy cover
Does anyone one know where to get a cover for the RV canopy? I have to move the aircraft outside for a few months and I would like to cover it up also a cover for the propeller. thanks dan carley rv3-a 148cw ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2000
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Any second thoughts
-- Rick Osgood wrote: > > Another RV lost?? Does anybody else have second > thoughts about continuing to > build their RV after reading about these accidents? > How do you reassure > yourself and your family that you are not > endangering yourself or your > family? > > Just questions that sit in the back of my mind.... > > > Rick Osgood Rick: There is an old saying: "I do not try to cheat death. My goal is to make sure that death is not a player in the game." Yes. We all have second thoughts at some point in time. A friend of mine (flys a RV-6A) had his boss say this when he saw a photo of his airplane. "You are putting your life in danger flying." The RV-6A builder/flyers response was the same as mine: "NO. I am LIVING my life to the fullest!" Others have said "It is not how long you live but what you do with your life in between the time you are born and die." I enjoy flying more than anything I do. I will not do anything that I feel is unsafe. I only have 552.0 hours on my RV-6 since the first flight. Building the airplane, flying it 307.1 hours, then rebuilding it after the FORD Thunderbird ran into it, has been worth everything I have gotten out of it. I know what you are going though. I HAD THREE different friends (3 different accidents) lose their lives in RVs before I finished and flew mine. This does not count other aviation accidents that I knew someone. I had meet Charlie (pilot / owner) of the Questair that had a midair in Southern California this year, one week before the accident. Jeremy and Bill were friends of all of us. I believe that all of the aviators that have gone before us were doing what we all LOVE to do. At least they were doing what I LOVE to do most. I always intend to do everything in aviation as safe as possible. Yes it is better to be down here wishing you were up there than to be up there wishing you were down here. Staying on the ground FOREVER is not an option. I WILL NOT fly anything that I feel is not airworthy or when I am not medically fit to fly. "I always use my superior judgment to avoid situations where the use of my superior pilot skills are needed." I am 43 year old pilot, NRA LIFE member, FAA A & P, and EAA Tech Counselor. I will now get off my soap box and say sorry for the long post. ==== Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, Flying So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2000
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: canopy cover
--- DFCPAC(at)aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone one know where to get a cover for the RV > canopy? I have to move > the aircraft outside for a few months and I would > like to cover it up also a > cover for the propeller. > > thanks > dan carley > rv3-a 148cw Dan: Cleaveland Aircraft Tools has them. http://www.cleavelandtool.com/catsub1.html Listed in the catalog under RV ACCESSORIES. Not sure about the prop cover but I would phone DJ and ask her if she could make one. There are other vendors that make them but everyone that I know (myself included) has one from Cleaveland. ==== Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, Flying So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: canopy cover
Date: May 14, 2000
I got one for my -8 form the Cleveland Tools folks. Very nice, very soft, and comes with its own carry/storage pouch. Mike Robertson RV-8A >From: DFCPAC(at)aol.com >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv3-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: canopy cover >Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:30:22 EDT > > >Does anyone one know where to get a cover for the RV canopy? I have to move >the aircraft outside for a few months and I would like to cover it up also >a >cover for the propeller. > >thanks >dan carley >rv3-a 148cw > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Don't turn back, was "Any second thoughts"
Date: May 14, 2000
Long time listers will remember a long discussion about turning back after take off. It has been hinted that happened in this recent accident. I hope that is not what happened. Anyone who has any doubts about what they will do if the engine quits after take off please read (or re-read) this message I dug up in the archive. Message: #31999 From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> Subject: Re: Don't Turn Back was, First Flight Anticipation Date: Jan 06, 1998 All, Since I feel quite strongly about this issue and rather than force feed my editorial to all, and to save bandwidth, I stuck an essay on the subject on the web. You can find it at this address: http://www.petroblend.com/dougr/dnt-turn.htm If you don't respond to the: engine failure after takeoff without hesitation, "Lower the nose and Land straight ahead." Please read it. If you don't have web access and would like a copy e-mail me off the list and I will send it to you. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: F-804 spacer accuracy?
> >I'm ready to fabricate the spacer for my F-804 spar carrythrough >bulkhead prior to installing it in the jig and I'm wondering what would >constitute acceptable accuracy for thickness. My spar root ends are >both 1 15/32" thick, but I don't have any means of cutting wood (or >anything else) to the nearest 1/32". If I can come up with a 1.5" thick >spacer, would the 'extra' 1/32" be a problem when I install my wings? >What are other -8 builders doing in this area? > >-- >Regards, >Ken Balch Ken, 1. I would recheck the thickness of your spar. On mine, the thinner pieces of material were not quite tight against the spar bars at the root end. Once I clamped things together (like they will be once you tighten up the bolts after sliding them into the fuselage), the thickness was exactly 1.437 (1 7/16). 2. Scott McDaniels posted on this subject a long time ago - it should be in the archives. My recollection was he thought that you should could get away with the slot being exactly the same thickness, as you can put a slight chamfer on the spar root to help get it started. That is the way they build them at Vans. He said that you should not have too much slop here - having the slot about 0.010 too big was all he recommended (as I recall). 3. I found that wood tended to compress if you tightened the bolts down too much. I used bolts with larger nuts and washers and a shim as spacers. Mind you I haven't assembled my wings to the fuselage yet, so I may live to regret this. See: http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/fuselage/f01.html Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit floors) Ottawa, Canada http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Any second thoughts
Date: May 14, 2000
My spell checker changed Pilotage to pillage. Sorry about that!!! Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 8:23 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Any second thoughts > > I don't believe the point was that the plane was unsafe and dangerous but a > reminder that poor pillage can be! > > Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! > (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Dickens" <mddickens(at)mindspring.com> > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 7:45 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Any second thoughts > > > > > > My thoughts...the RV is an airframe, not a complete airplane...you build > the > > plane, you select the engine, you install the engine and you maintain the > > plane...how do we know he didn't have water in his fuel? I say keep > > building and keep in mind YOU are the manufacturer, not Van's > > > > Mark Dickens > > RV-8 Wings > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rick Osgood <randbosgood(at)peoplepc.com> > > To: rv-list > > Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 9:21 PM > > Subject: RV-List: Any second thoughts > > > > > > > > > > Another RV lost?? Does anybody else have second thoughts about > continuing > > to > > > build their RV after reading about these accidents? How do you reassure > > > yourself and your family that you are not endangering yourself or your > > > family? > > > > > > Just questions that sit in the back of my mind.... > > > > > > > > > Rick Osgood > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net
Date: May 10, 2000
Subject: Shirts
Listers, Not quite RV-related. Has anyone ordered those shirts from Paul Brown from Palm Beach Garden and not received them yet? - The ones with a picture of your own RV embroidred on the pockets, supposedly to wear to SNF. I ordered mine about 2 wks before SNF and didn't expect to have them for SNF but it is now about 7 weeks later and still have not seen them. Paul was responsive to my emails in the beginning - one day at most. I got in touch with him after SNF and he said that he'd have them to me in a week. That was about 2 weeks ago. I have not heard from him since. Does any know what happened to him? Thanks, N985VU Maryland ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net>
Subject: enpennage for sale
Date: May 14, 2000
completed prepunched enpennage for sale,purchased completed enpennage,wings, and dont need 2 enpennages,electric trim ----- Original Message ----- From: <AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 12:22 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: Zenith-List: Alum polishing compound recommendation? > > In a message dated 5/13/00 8:11:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, elrond(at)xprt.net > writes: > > > > Anyone got a recommendation for a brand of aluminum polishing compound? > > Any tricks to speed up the process? > > Hi Bruce: Below please find two links. One is for a company in Canada. They > give a lot of info on polishing and their US counter parts. > > The other is a company I am going to use to buy supplies to polish my > Airstream(s). Great info. Their site is under reconstruction this weekend, So > book mark them and look them over next week. > Aircraft Exterior Polish, Aircraft > Polishing products > > Lake Country Manufacturing > > I hope this helps. > > Regards, > > John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar > ineCore > (Chick the blue link to go there) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2000
From: KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: Second thoughts
>Another RV lost?? Does anybody else have second thoughts about continuing to >build their RV after reading about these accidents? How do you reassure >yourself and your family that you are not endangering yourself or your >family? Went flying tonight, after I read the post. I thought about it some, while flying. "Landed in a yard." I saw an airplane "land" in a yard, once. J-3 Cub with someone's name taped to the bottom of the wing as he buzzed a house. Pulled up, stalled it, landed in a yard. Unless it is a big yard, that's about the only way to land in one. (I am not trying to second guess what happened to the RV-4, just thinking out loud.) I was one of the first on scene and it wasn't pretty. The next day, I had to get in my J-3 and fly 600 miles home. Gave me some time to think about it. Flying is not like driving. There are more ways and dimensions to screw up in. But we choose to fly anyway. We make it as safe as we can, considering the risks. There are risks in everything that is worth doing. How many people roll their eyes when you tell them you are building your own airplane? They see the thing flying into a thousand rivets and sheets of fluttering metal because they don't know what we know. Is it totally without risk? No. So would I have rather sat on the couch tonight and watched TV? Hardly. (Unless there was hockey on.) I went flying. It was one of those darkish still evenings with a grey overcast that made you just throttle back to 2300 and drift around. No one was even on the radio. As I took off, I looked at the areas I long ago picked out for a silent landing, ahead there from here, over there, now, from this altitude, now over there. As I fly, I still quietly look at places to land. Not that one, it's actually too close; that one over there, flat except for the cow trail to the water tank, and the cows are two fields away. They'll rub an airplane into a ball, you know. I got mad at myself this morning, as I practiced emergency landings, because I forgot something on my mental list of things to do. Don't remember what it was now, as I remembered it on the second try. Yes, I still go out and see where I'll land from, oh here. I try to stay prepared. We have one of the best designs in the industry and we build them the best way we know how. And, contrary to popular belief, they usually hold together. We fly them with a skill that increases as we learn, letting the airplane make us better pilots because we want to KNOW how to fly this airplane well; it demands that of us. We try to fly often; that's how we keep current. We do our preflights because we know this is a high performance aircraft that pretty much everything has to work for it to fly right. We inspect our own airplanes because we, as builders, know it like no one else does. And we sometimes don't wait a full year. Because we care about our airplanes. And we know, if we take care of our airplanes and take the care to learn to fly them well, our airplanes will take care of us. And if things don't work, being a mechanical thing (don't tell Suzie Q I said that), we have practiced what to do to get us back to the earth. Sometimes the magic works, and sometimes it doesn't. My second thoughts are to learn from what I have seen and heard, and making my flying environment the best it can be. It was a beautiful, still evening flight, floating around the foothills.................................... Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2000
From: KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: canopy cover
>Does anyone one know where to get a cover for the RV canopy? DJ Lauretson, Cleveland Tools catalog. She does very nice work. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Meacham" <bruceme(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: RV3-List: canopy cover
Date: May 14, 2000
Van's Sells a great cover for the -3. It's the only RV-3 cover I could find. Bruce Meacham RV-3 3456B www.seanet.com/~bruceme/ShotGun.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: <DFCPAC(at)aol.com> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 6:30 PM Subject: RV3-List: canopy cover > --> RV3-List message posted by: DFCPAC(at)aol.com > > Does anyone one know where to get a cover for the RV canopy? I have to move > the aircraft outside for a few months and I would like to cover it up also a > cover for the propeller. > > thanks > dan carley > rv3-a 148cw > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2000
From: Thomas McIntyre <bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV3-List: canopy cover
Cleveland tool sells one. Thats where I bought mine from. Tom McIntyre RV3 978 TM Bruce Meacham wrote: > > Van's Sells a great cover for the -3. It's the only RV-3 cover I could > find. > > Bruce Meacham > RV-3 3456B > www.seanet.com/~bruceme/ShotGun.htm > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <DFCPAC(at)aol.com> > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 6:30 PM > Subject: RV3-List: canopy cover > > > --> RV3-List message posted by: DFCPAC(at)aol.com > > > > Does anyone one know where to get a cover for the RV canopy? I have to > move > > the aircraft outside for a few months and I would like to cover it up also > a > > cover for the propeller. > > > > thanks > > dan carley > > rv3-a 148cw > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: May 15, 2000
Subject: fuel tank please help
having trouble fitting fuel tank baffle t-602 to wing spar.seems like baffle is a little too wide.also too long on the flanges. are they suppose to touch the spar strips? maybe my shims need to be thicker.drawing 18a shows the flanges to end near the spar strips.the fuel tank skin at the inb. end is not as long as the main skins which i understand is set by the out.b skin.manual says leave half inch for wing tip to attach. for punched skin to line up with ribs mine has aprox. five-eights skin overhang at tip.will the tank attach fitting to fuse. come out short when wing is fitted later?would be very grateful for info. on this subject. tcrv6(at)aol.com left wing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2000
From: Frank and Dorothy <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Threads for aircraft bolts
Hi all, I need to tap some thread to attach my roll-over bar (RV-6, tip-up) to my fuselage, and also some for attaching the lift struts. According to Will Cretsinger's notes and the plans, I need to tap 10-32, 5/16 x 18, and 8-32 threads in various holes. I'm almost completely ignorant about threads and taps and suchlike... Is there any special kind of tap-and-die set that I need? Do I need (God forfend) "aviation-quality" taps (Avery and Cleaveland don't seem to sell any), or can I just go down to my local hardware store and buy a set there? If so, what do I ask for? Are these numbers "Whitworth"? Or "BS"? Or something else? Are tap-and-die sets like other tools (i.e. quality costs), or can I safely buy the cheapest that Taiwanese manufacturing can produce? Frank. RV-6 #24692, canopy frame, Marton, NZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2000
From: Joe Czachorowski <midnight(at)UDel.Edu>
Subject: F-804 Spacer Accuracy
> >I'm ready to fabricate the spacer for my F-804 spar carrythrough >bulkhead prior to installing it in the jig and I'm wondering what would >constitute acceptable accuracy for thickness. My spar root ends are >both 1 15/32" thick, but I don't have any means of cutting wood (or >anything else) to the nearest 1/32". If I can come up with a 1.5" thick >spacer, would the 'extra' 1/32" be a problem when I install my wings? >What are other -8 builders doing in this area? > >-- >Regards, >Ken Balch Ken, When I did this part, I called out to Van's and talk to Ken Krueger. He said between 2 to 3 thousanths would be OK. He said the best would be zero, but than it would be difficult to attach the spar. I had some square tubing milled on a milling machine to exactly what I wanted. When you use steel, you don't have to worry about changing the distance when you tighten the bolts. BTW, my wings slipped right in! Joe #80125 (wings painted) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Harris" <johnh(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Any second thoughts
Date: May 15, 2000
Another RV lost?? > Rick, For about 30 seconds, when there's a loss I think about not flying at all anymore, but I have the identical feelings when there is a fatal car crash. I have never regretted my decision to build an RV. Regrettfully, almost all the RV losses we hear about are like most other GA losses: human error, or some other cause not related to the aircraft type. Until I see some evidence that RVs fall from the sky because of their design I'll stick sith it, and I'll continue to fly until aerodynamics no longer work. John Harris Cary, NC RV9A N922JH (Reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
Subject: Don't turn back
Date: May 15, 2000
Regarding landing straight ahead, I thought I'd see just how high one would have to be to make the 180 back home if the engine quit. Not having access to a high-dollar real simulator and not wanting to bend a real plane, I resorted to my reasonably realistic MS Flight Simulator. I have tried all kinds of options (speed, flaps, turn rate, split-S, etc...) to get the plane back to the runway. I tried it in the 182 and the Extra. I never made it back from lower than about 700 or 750-feet. This surprised me - I thought 400 or 500-feet would be enough. Anyone have any RV experience related to the "turn back" performance? Bryan Jones -8 ready for inspection Pearland, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Threads for aircraft bolts
Date: May 15, 2000
They are standard SAE National Fine threads until you get to the smaller #8, and #6 then they become USS which is National Coarse. They are NOT Whitworth but American. It really doesn't matter, just get the size and threads per inch you need from your local hardware store. Some of the Taiwanese are O.K. but why take the risk? You indicate you only need 3 sizes so get a good quality tap from your hardware store. There aren't any "aircraft" taps as they are ground to fairly tight tolerances already. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank and Dorothy" <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 5:34 AM Subject: RV-List: Threads for aircraft bolts > > Hi all, > > I need to tap some thread to attach my roll-over bar (RV-6, tip-up) to > my fuselage, and also some for attaching the lift struts. > > According to Will Cretsinger's notes and the plans, I need to tap 10-32, > 5/16 x 18, and 8-32 threads in various holes. > > I'm almost completely ignorant about threads and taps and suchlike... > > Is there any special kind of tap-and-die set that I need? Do I need (God > forfend) "aviation-quality" taps (Avery and Cleaveland don't seem to > sell any), or can I just go down to my local hardware store and buy a > set there? If so, what do I ask for? Are these numbers "Whitworth"? Or > "BS"? Or something else? Are tap-and-die sets like other tools (i.e. > quality costs), or can I safely buy the cheapest that Taiwanese > manufacturing can produce? > > Frank. > RV-6 #24692, canopy frame, Marton, NZ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Threads for aircraft bolts
Date: May 15, 2000
They are standard SAE National Fine threads until you get to the smaller #8, and #6 then they become USS which is National Coarse. They are NOT Whitworth but American. It really doesn't matter, just get the size and threads per inch you need from your local hardware store. Some of the Taiwanese are O.K. but why take the risk? You indicate you only need 3 sizes so get a good quality tap from your hardware store. There aren't any "aircraft" taps as they are ground to fairly tight tolerances already. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank and Dorothy" <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 5:34 AM Subject: RV-List: Threads for aircraft bolts > > Hi all, > > I need to tap some thread to attach my roll-over bar (RV-6, tip-up) to > my fuselage, and also some for attaching the lift struts. > > According to Will Cretsinger's notes and the plans, I need to tap 10-32, > 5/16 x 18, and 8-32 threads in various holes. > > I'm almost completely ignorant about threads and taps and suchlike... > > Is there any special kind of tap-and-die set that I need? Do I need (God > forfend) "aviation-quality" taps (Avery and Cleaveland don't seem to > sell any), or can I just go down to my local hardware store and buy a > set there? If so, what do I ask for? Are these numbers "Whitworth"? Or > "BS"? Or something else? Are tap-and-die sets like other tools (i.e. > quality costs), or can I safely buy the cheapest that Taiwanese > manufacturing can produce? > > Frank. > RV-6 #24692, canopy frame, Marton, NZ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: frank.shen(at)conexant.com
Subject: REMOVE
Date: May 15, 2000
05/15/2000 06:25:38 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: May 15, 2000
Subject: Re: GLASSAIR Electrical parts
Dick, this is the fella who does all the electrical supply for GH. He may be useful in the future if you need any parts or general info........ AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com on 05/13/2000 12:13:39 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: GLASSAIR OUT OF BUSINESS Hi Jim: I also am somewhat familiar with Glassair/Glasstars operation. For several years we were Stoddard Hamilton's/Glassair's electrical connector supplier...Until they could not pay their bills, would not pay their bills and got real unpleasant when asked to pay up. They had got to the point of not making most of their parts. Almost everything was farmed out and they slowly dumped most of the original staff that actually did the work. The staff that made them successful in the first place. I am sorry that a bunch of folks lost their jobs, but you are absolutely right about a group of "Non Value Added personnel." They made a great kit plane and were at one time a pleasure to work with. I am sorry that the old company is gone...But in my opinion you reap what you sow. So if any of you are building Glassairs or Glasstars and need your your electrical bits and pieces, we got them. Regards, John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar ineCore (Chick the blue link to go there) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz)
Date: May 15, 2000
Subject: Re: canopy cover
Becki Orndorff did a real nice job on a canopy cover for my 8 and will make one up for any model RV you have. The material is a reflective gore-tex type of covering that is lined with a soft / smooth interior. 1" wide straps secure it to the plane. She brags that it could be used as a survival blanket if need be because it is similar to those reflective blankets. Becki did a nice job on my cushions as well and supplied me with all the material to upholster the inside. I got the nice very light weight carpet from her too. She also does a nice cover for props. Kind of a prophylactic for props. Traash mailsorter-101-12.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/ms.dwm.v7+dul2) From: DFCPAC(at)aol.com Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:30:22 EDT Subject: RV-List: canopy cover Does anyone one know where to get a cover for the RV canopy? I have to move the aircraft outside for a few months and I would like to cover it up also a cover for the propeller. thanks dan carley rv3-a 148cw ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2000
From: Ed Wischmeyer <edwisch(at)aa.net>
Subject: Scribing, respirators, etc.
>...and scribe a number on the cover and bay Hmm. I was taught never, but never to scribe aluminum. You can go through the alclad and let corrosion get a start, but more importantly, that scribe is a big fatigue crack that you just started. > Next I went and bought a cheap respirator and started cleaning with > MEK and course scotch bright pads. Hopefully this was a forced air breathing device. Many of the passive respirators won't work on some of the mean chemicals we use. Don't know about MEK specifically, but I wouldn't trust anything that didn't have forced air. Anybody got the straight scoop on this? Ed Wischmeyer -- NOTE: 5% of messages sent to me don't make it, so use a return receipt to insure delivery. The phone company system drops packets. - - - - - - - - Ed Wischmeyer Web page: http://members.aa.net/~edwisch Email: edwisch(at)aa.net name="edwisch.vcf" filename="edwisch.vcf" begin:vcard n:Wischmeyer;Ed tel;fax:425 898-9566 tel;home:425 898-9856 url:http://members.aa.net/~edwisch adr:;;18615 NE 53rd Street;Redmond;WA;98052; version:2.1 email;internet:edwisch(at)aa.net fn:Ed Wischmeyer end:vcard ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Any second thoughts
Date: May 15, 2000
> > >Another RV lost?? Does anybody else have second thoughts about continuing >to >build their RV after reading about these accidents? How do you reassure >yourself and your family that you are not endangering yourself or your >family? > >Just questions that sit in the back of my mind.... > > >Rick Osgood > All activities in life have an element of risk. It's purely a personal decision on how how much risk can be sustained. Fly the RV like your life depends on it, because it does. Practice emergency procedures, always have an "out" from any situation. Don't do Vx takeoffs when not necessary in case the engine gives up. These planes WILL glide just fine. Been there, done that, not a scratch on myself or the plane. Be careful out there folks. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JDaniel343(at)aol.com
Date: May 15, 2000
Subject: Re: fuel tank please help
How thick are your spacers that you are placing between the spar and the baffle? Mine were 7/8 inch which seemed to work ok in my situation, an inch would work also. As for the length of the tank skin and where you said it is located, I would give Van a call or wait to see what others have to say. John Danielson Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JDaniel343(at)aol.com
Date: May 15, 2000
Subject: Re: Pro-Seal
You can get small cartriges of tank sealant from Aircraft Spruce. The two parts are in one cartridge and are mixed together within the cartridge before applying. I think the come in 2 oz., 4 oz. and 6 oz. sizes. John Danielson Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Found thius novel approach
Date: May 15, 2000
"One thing that I discovered while building my Emeraude. Don't ever tell a vendor that you are building a plane. Many of them will refuse to sell you parts, materials, or service. Instead, tell them you are working on an invention to aid the handicapped and you'll sue their ass for violating the disabilities act if they don't sell you what you want!" Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BSEckstein(at)cs.com
Date: May 15, 2000
Subject: (no subject)
I'm wondering anyone can help with a problem encountered while mounting the engine on an RV6A. I've got an IO-360-A1B6 and the sump just barely touches the engine mount about 3 inches below the lower Dynafocals. Has anyone run into this? If so, how did you solve it. Thanks Brian Eckstein bseckstein(at)cs.com 616-624-6719 h 616-655-3248 w ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TColeE(at)aol.com
Date: May 15, 2000
Subject: Re: canopy cover
5 years ago I won a canopy cover at the RV banquet at OSH from George and Becki Orndorff. You couldn't beleive my surprise when I called them and asked if the door prize was still valid. "Sure is" was Her reply. "What do you need RV6,6A." Informed her what I needed and in less then 2 weeks it was hugging N468TC, and looks great. Terry E. Cole N468TC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BSEckstein(at)cs.com
Date: May 15, 2000
Subject: IO-360-A1B6 on RV6A
I'm wonderingif anyone can help with a problem encountered while mounting the engine on an RV6A. I've got an IO-360-A1B6 and the sump just barely touches the engine mount about 3 inches below the lower Dynafocals. Has anyone run into this? If so, how did you solve it. Thanks Brian Eckstein bseckstein(at)cs.com 616-624-6719 h 616-655-3248 w From: BSEckstein(at)cs.com Full-name: BSEckstein Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 10:57:36 EDT Subject: (no subject) I'm wondering anyone can help with a problem encountered while mounting the engine on an RV6A. I've got an IO-360-A1B6 and the sump just barely touches the engine mount about 3 inches below the lower Dynafocals. Has anyone run into this? If so, how did you solve it. Thanks Brian Eckstein bseckstein(at)cs.com 616-624-6719 h 616-655-3248 w ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2000
From: Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Threads for aircraft bolts
The -32, x 18 and -32 are threads per inch, so it doesn't matter what you call it. #10 is same as 3/16 inch (diameter), but I guess you already knew that. Do not buy the real cheap sets (e.g. $15 for multiple dies and taps, handles, etc.). They are cast, not ground and won't cut a thread. The individual taps you can buy in hardware stores, Home Depot, Auto Discount, etc. should be quite adequate for what you need to do. Finn Frank and Dorothy wrote: > I need to tap some thread to attach my roll-over bar (RV-6, tip-up) to > my fuselage, and also some for attaching the lift struts. > > According to Will Cretsinger's notes and the plans, I need to tap 10-32, > 5/16 x 18, and 8-32 threads in various holes. > > I'm almost completely ignorant about threads and taps and suchlike... > > Is there any special kind of tap-and-die set that I need? Do I need (God > forfend) "aviation-quality" taps (Avery and Cleaveland don't seem to > sell any), or can I just go down to my local hardware store and buy a > set there? If so, what do I ask for? Are these numbers "Whitworth"? Or > "BS"? Or something else? Are tap-and-die sets like other tools (i.e. > quality costs), or can I safely buy the cheapest that Taiwanese > manufacturing can produce? > > Frank. > RV-6 #24692, canopy frame, Marton, NZ > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Petri" <dpetri(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Cheap Dutchman
Date: May 15, 2000
----- Original Message ----- >From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> >To: >Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 10:43 AM >Subject: Re: RV-List: Cheap Dutchman >I almost fell off chair when I saw those full page adds on the RV-9A. >There has >to be a plan to spend that kind of money. Looks to be a great segueway to enter the certified trainer market like Lance did for the high performance market with the Columbia. Once the RV community works the bugs out, it will surely make a fine trainer for quite a few bucks less than a new C-172. Why else design it with a low HP engine? P-P design and construction, labor force already constructing quick-builds, great existing source of kit feedback... sounds ideal to me. Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: Need platenut advice (long-ish)
Date: May 15, 2000
Okay, I'm pretty upset with myself. I've been smoldering under the surface since my latest screw-up. I've been attaching the top skin on my RV-4 between the instrument panel and the firewall. Now I have several questions, especially for -4 builders but I could use advice from just about anyone. First of all, I installed the instrument panel per plans using the little angles at the front of the cockpit side rails. When I do this it stands straight up. When I install the top skin it pulls the firwall aft a bit. Is this right? What can I do to keep the firewall straight? Second, the top skin has some serious puckers along the firewall where it screws on. How did you guys keep the screws on the top skin from distorting the curve of the top skin when screwed down? Third, I stripped some of the platenuts while trying to install the screws. Anyone ever successfully rettaped platenuts or am I looking at installing new platenuts? Fourth, the leading edge of the top front skin (fore skin :?), where is this edge trimmed in relation to the hinge? Some of the hinge is exposed on mine (really bad trimming). Fifth, (and finally) I think I am going to re-do this top skin (fore skin), How can I make sure the holes on the new skin match up correctly with the holes on the instrument panel and firewall which already have platenuts installed? Thanks for sticking with this email this far and thanks for any help you can give me!! -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE Network Administrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Threads for aircraft bolts
Date: May 15, 2000
A tap and die set will cost you a pretty penny for a good set...it will be a good investment, but you really only need the following: 8-32 10-32 1/4-28 5/16-18 Expect to pay about $-5-6 each for these plus a handle to turn them with...be sure to lubricate your tap with boelube, cutting oil, or something similar...taps can break easily if you are not careful, and since they are harder than bolts, drilling them out would not be fun I bought a tap and die set from Harbour Freight. It is pretty cheap..does the job, but I can definitely see where a quality set would be the way to go..I think I paid $15 for my set...a quality set should cost 4 times that though.. Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/ Finish Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank and Dorothy" <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 3:34 AM Subject: RV-List: Threads for aircraft bolts > > Hi all, > > I need to tap some thread to attach my roll-over bar (RV-6, tip-up) to > my fuselage, and also some for attaching the lift struts. > > According to Will Cretsinger's notes and the plans, I need to tap 10-32, > 5/16 x 18, and 8-32 threads in various holes. > > I'm almost completely ignorant about threads and taps and suchlike... > > Is there any special kind of tap-and-die set that I need? Do I need (God > forfend) "aviation-quality" taps (Avery and Cleaveland don't seem to > sell any), or can I just go down to my local hardware store and buy a > set there? If so, what do I ask for? Are these numbers "Whitworth"? Or > "BS"? Or something else? Are tap-and-die sets like other tools (i.e. > quality costs), or can I safely buy the cheapest that Taiwanese > manufacturing can produce? > > Frank. > RV-6 #24692, canopy frame, Marton, NZ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
Subject: Scribing, respirators, etc.
Date: May 15, 2000
Cartridge respirators are generally quite acceptable for chemical vapors such as MEK, assuming you have the right cartridge and the mask fits properly. The concentrations of the chemical also have to be factored in, but I would imagine working with MEK as a solvent in a reasonably well ventilated area would make use of a half-face cartridge respirator very acceptable. In an industrial environment, forced or supplied air breathing systems are reserved for situations where the atmosphere is oxygen deficient, contains concentrations of materials where the cartridge respirators are not functional, concentrations of chemicals which are IDLY (immediately dangerous to life or health) or the material is lethal (hydrogen sulfide, hydrogen chloride, chlorine, etc). Sometimes we use supplied air to help keep people cool, but that's not typical. My experience with respirators is that the cheap ones sometimes don't fit well. It will leak and you'll become accustomed to the vapors and not realize that it's leaking, doing yourself no good. I prefer Scott half-face brand respirators. Respirators and supplied air are a complex, critical issue. I am not an expert, but have worked with and around them for many years. Use the above information at your own risk. Bryan Jones > Next I went and bought a cheap respirator and started cleaning with > MEK and course scotch bright pads. Hopefully this was a forced air breathing device. Many of the passive respirators won't work on some of the mean chemicals we use. Don't know about MEK specifically, but I wouldn't trust anything that didn't have forced air. Anybody got the straight scoop on this? Ed Wischmeyer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: F-804 spacer accuracy?
Date: May 15, 2000
> > >I'm ready to fabricate the spacer for my F-804 spar carrythrough >bulkhead prior to installing it in the jig and I'm wondering what would >constitute acceptable accuracy for thickness. My spar root ends are >both 1 15/32" thick, but I don't have any means of cutting wood (or >anything else) to the nearest 1/32". If I can come up with a 1.5" thick >spacer, would the 'extra' 1/32" be a problem when I install my wings? >What are other -8 builders doing in this area? > >-- >Regards, >Ken Balch >Ashland, MA >RV-8 #81125 >floor ribs > >Ken, 1.5" is fine. Use a dense hardwood and trim it down to rough dimension with a belt sander (I'm sure you can find one somewhere) then finish it to 1.5" with a sanding block. I used pieces of 2"x2" poplar, made four of them and used a caliper as a thickness gauge. The stub ends of the spacers were bolted to short legs made of 2x4 to place the fuselage longerons at waist level. Caution: do NOT overtorque the bolts holding the spacers in place in the 804 as most any wood will compress. I made a gap feeler gauge with some scrap alluminum and checked the spar gap top and bottom as I snugged the bolts. This is how I did it, the spars slid in snugly with just a little wiggling on the wing tips. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD 89 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ENewton57(at)aol.com
Date: May 15, 2000
Subject: Fwd: Wing Spar ooops
In a message dated 5/13/00 8:34:18 PM Central Daylight Time, ENewton57 writes: << to my horror I realized that I had just put the tie down bracket with the threaded end facing the top of the spar. No problem to turn it around but now I have an extra hole in my flange strips (where the top bolt goes through the tie down bracket, spar web and through two flange strips. I also have an extra hole in the spar web as well. Now what? >> Thanks to all of you who responded to the above inquiry. Most everyone had the same solution as Vans did when I called them this morning. "Put a rivet in the flange strip hole, coutersink the tie down bracket enough for the rivet shop head to clear and just deburr the extra web hole, primer it and move on." They said it happens a lot (doesn't make me feel any better). Oh well, I'll just be more carefull and check and double check before committing any holes to the spar parts (or any other for that matter) in the future. That's what I get for looking at the plans for the left wing and applying the orientation of the parts to the right wing spar. (duh??? its upside down dummy). Thanks again for the help. PS - I included the mistake and fix on my web site for future builders (I hope there are no more that do this). Eric Newton - Long Beach, Mississippi RV-6A N57ME (reserved) - Wing Spars Eric's RV-6A Construction Page From: ENewton57(at)aol.com Full-name: ENewton57 Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 21:34:18 EDT Subject: Wing Spar ooops Hi all, Just made a major oops in the wing spar. I drilled the tie down bracket in place, (including the top bolt hole that passes through the spar web and two flange strips) and was getting ready to drill the hole where the tie down ring passes through the spar flange when to my horror I realized that I had just put the tie down bracket with the threaded end facing the top of the spar. No problem to turn it around but now I have an extra hole in my flange strips (where the top bolt goes through the tie down bracket, spar web and through two flange strips. I also have an extra hole in the spar web as well. Now what? Thanks for any advise. I'll probably call Van's on Monday as well but would like some input from the group. Thanks, Eric Newton Long Beach, MS RV-6A N57ME (reserved) (Working on Wing Spars) Eric's RV-6A Construction Page ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Todd" <motodd(at)pol.net>
Subject: Re: Shirts
Date: May 15, 2000
"Not quite RV-related. Has anyone ordered those shirts from Paul Brown from Palm Beach Garden and not received them yet? - The ones with a picture of your own RV embroidred on the pockets, supposedly to wear to SNF.... I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but the Blackjacks ordered 40 shirts from them about six weeks ago which arrived in excellent shape last week. That big order may have gotten them back up some. Just speculating... Mark RV4 KAWO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marc Guay" <marcrv6a(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Date: May 15, 2000
I converted an IO-360-A2B to an IO-360-A1B for my RV-6A and I had the same problem. I used a big washer between the mount ant the engine which actually moved the engine forward just a little bit. It is enough to prevent touching and with 130hours+ so far no problems and no signs of rubbing. If you need more info email to me direct. Cheers Marc Guay RV-6A C-FWUV Ottawa Ontario Flying 130 hours+ >From: BSEckstein(at)cs.com >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: (no subject) >Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 10:57:36 EDT > > >I'm wondering anyone can help with a problem encountered while mounting the >engine on an RV6A. I've got an IO-360-A1B6 and the sump just barely >touches >the engine mount about 3 inches below the lower Dynafocals. Has anyone run >into this? If so, how did you solve it. > >Thanks >Brian Eckstein >bseckstein(at)cs.com >616-624-6719 h >616-655-3248 w > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2000
From: Michael Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net>
Subject: Yeller Pages Update
Listers! The latest version of Gary VanRemortel's RV Builders' Yeller Pages is available at: http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm Be sure and tell Gary thanks. - Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: May 15, 2000
Subject: Scribing, respirators, etc.
Our HAZMAT engineering course instructor told us that getting chemical (like MEK & acetone) on out fingers can get absorbed into the blood stream and do kidney and liver damage. ( I knew that) What I didn't know that any trace of the chemical that gets on or under your fingernail get absorbed at a rate of 100 to 1000 times than skin contact.....(I didn't know that) Also, wear a mask when mixing paints as well as spraying the paints. In days of old we worried about the spray in the air, today , the chemical reaction of some of the volatiles we use are dangerous enough to always wear a proper mask. bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com on 05/15/2000 11:36:02 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Scribing, respirators, etc. <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com> Cartridge respirators are generally quite acceptable for chemical vapors such as MEK, assuming you have the right cartridge and the mask fits properly. The concentrations of the chemical also have to be factored in, but I would imagine working with MEK as a solvent in a reasonably well ventilated area would make use of a half-face cartridge respirator very acceptable. In an industrial environment, forced or supplied air breathing systems are reserved for situations where the atmosphere is oxygen deficient, contains concentrations of materials where the cartridge respirators are not functional, concentrations of chemicals which are IDLY (immediately dangerous to life or health) or the material is lethal (hydrogen sulfide, hydrogen chloride, chlorine, etc). Sometimes we use supplied air to help keep people cool, but that's not typical. My experience with respirators is that the cheap ones sometimes don't fit well. It will leak and you'll become accustomed to the vapors and not realize that it's leaking, doing yourself no good. I prefer Scott half-face brand respirators. Respirators and supplied air are a complex, critical issue. I am not an expert, but have worked with and around them for many years. Use the above information at your own risk. Bryan Jones > Next I went and bought a cheap respirator and started cleaning with > MEK and course scotch bright pads. Hopefully this was a forced air breathing device. Many of the passive respirators won't work on some of the mean chemicals we use. Don't know about MEK specifically, but I wouldn't trust anything that didn't have forced air. Anybody got the straight scoop on this? Ed Wischmeyer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: May 15, 2000
Subject: Re: Need platenut advice (long-ish)
On all the -4's I've seen and mine the dash upright is more solid than the forewall upright. No worry here. BESURE the top skin is in place when fitting the top (and bottom) cowl. and movement transfers misalignment to the spinner back. I needed to use some thick black gasket material to radius the area the top skin sits on to even the cowl to the top skin. A thin material here will hide the hinge. You can tap & bugger the nut palte but eventually you will replace the screw. BTW, your cheeks need to be fitted in this area & its important to have the top skin in place because it alligns everything.. svanarts(at)unionsafe.com on 05/15/2000 11:35:38 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Need platenut advice (long-ish) Okay, I'm pretty upset with myself. I've been smoldering under the surface since my latest screw-up. I've been attaching the top skin on my RV-4 between the instrument panel and the firewall. Now I have several questions, especially for -4 builders but I could use advice from just about anyone. First of all, I installed the instrument panel per plans using the little angles at the front of the cockpit side rails. When I do this it stands straight up. When I install the top skin it pulls the firwall aft a bit. Is this right? What can I do to keep the firewall straight? Second, the top skin has some serious puckers along the firewall where it screws on. How did you guys keep the screws on the top skin from distorting the curve of the top skin when screwed down? Third, I stripped some of the platenuts while trying to install the screws. Anyone ever successfully rettaped platenuts or am I looking at installing new platenuts? Fourth, the leading edge of the top front skin (fore skin :?), where is this edge trimmed in relation to the hinge? Some of the hinge is exposed on mine (really bad trimming). Fifth, (and finally) I think I am going to re-do this top skin (fore skin), How can I make sure the holes on the new skin match up correctly with the holes on the instrument panel and firewall which already have platenuts installed? Thanks for sticking with this email this far and thanks for any help you can give me!! -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE Network Administrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: May 15, 2000
Subject: Electric piming the fuel system
Listers, Does anyone have any experience with electric priming solenoids for engine priming? This sounds like a great idea. It puts one less fuel line inside the cockpit since you can locate everything on the other side of the firewall. Thx, - Jim Andrews Austin, Texas RV-8Aq ( fuse & finish ) N89JA (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2000
Subject: RV-6/6A Elevator control tube length
From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
Harry: I had to cut a 1 1/8 hole in the f607 BH to get the tube in. If you neutral the stick & f635 bellcrank, then install one rod end on with 60% threads, you can install & mark for the other that has 60% threads. I used 5 degrees forward of plumb on the stick. Later I adjusted the f689 to 3 degrees after the elevator stops were on. Tape a 1/8 shim to the f604, so you will not bottom out on it. Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com ********************************************** > -6/6A builders > For the forward elevator control tube, the one that is 3/4 in. diameter that > goes from th control column to the bellcrank, sheet 40 of the plans > shows a > length of 47 1/2 inches. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2000
Subject: Re: Threads for aircraft bolts
From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
> I need to tap some thread to attach my roll-over bar (RV-6, tip-up) > to my fuselage, and also some for attaching the lift struts. > According to Will Cretsinger's notes and the plans, I need to tap > 10-32, 5/16 x 18, and 8-32 threads in various holes. ****************************************** If you put the 10-32's under the skin & use the 8-32's forward thru the skin, you can get by with just the 8-32 Tap & put nuts on the (flush) 10-32's. The 5/16-18 is used to attach the aft end of the strut to the plate that screws to the f621. The finish nut is preaty but don't think it will handle the loads. I would recommend useing nut plates under the 621. It will be hard to get nuts in there later. I would buy the best at the hardware store. THe system is SAE I think. Find a table from the store or our catalogs that tell you the tap drill size. If you have n't driven any taps before, use lubricate, turn in 1/4 in & out 1/2. You will need to buy a handle for the tap. This is one thing that has to be done right the first tiime. Just like rivets, practice on scrap first. Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com ********************************************** > > I'm almost completely ignorant about threads and taps and > suchlike... > > Is there any special kind of tap-and-die set that I need? Do I need > (God > forfend) "aviation-quality" taps (Avery and Cleaveland don't seem to > sell any), or can I just go down to my local hardware store and buy > a > set there? If so, what do I ask for? Are these numbers "Whitworth"? > Or > "BS"? Or something else? Are tap-and-die sets like other tools (i.e. > quality costs), or can I safely buy the cheapest that Taiwanese > manufacturing can produce? > > Frank. > RV-6 #24692, canopy frame, Marton, NZ > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Japundza, Bob" <bjapundza(at)dowagro.com>
Subject: Electric priming the fuel system
Date: May 15, 2000
Jim, I copied a friend's electric primer installation and he really likes it...I installed the solenoid valve on the firewall and wired it off the boost pump switch with a pushbutton so that it can activate only when the boost pump is on. Bob > > Listers, > > Does anyone have any experience with electric priming > solenoids for engine > priming? > > This sounds like a great idea. It puts one less fuel line > inside the cockpit > since you can locate everything on the other side of the firewall. > > Thx, > > - Jim Andrews > Austin, Texas > RV-8Aq ( fuse & finish ) > N89JA (reserved) > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: May 15, 2000
Subject: RV Flight Trainig/Mike Seger Philadelaphia Appearance
So Far Mike Seger has these 12 folks signed up for RV training in the Philadelphia area on July 18, 19th 20th, 2000. 1. L. A. Dobbs, NJ 2. P. Condon, NJ 3. L. Scheer, NY 4. M. Garramone, NY 5. T. Norwood, NY 6. D. L. Davis, PA 7. R. Ziedman, PA 8. e-mail person ghfrost.aol.com 9. R. Gray, Ohio 10. L. Lawson, ? 11. J. Cimino, PA 12. H. Sigmon, DE Any other RV-listers wanting access to Mike Seger and his RV-6 for Mike's CFI training please post me a e-mail at pcondon(at)csc.com or philc(at)voicenet.com or 609.654.9587 after 6:00pm est. We have room for 18 training slots. Also, if there are no objections from the training group, If we collect 10 or 12 $ pre training slot person we can put Mike up at a hotel while he does the training. I figure 10 $ per trained person times 18 folks will cover Hotel expenses. We can schedule alternates so more than 18 can sign up because I expect some folks may not be able to attend due to last minute problems..............later. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2000
From: Fred Kunkel <rvator(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Cleco Kits
Hello everyone, Came across a deal on clecos & decided to pass it on to the group. Sorry, but at the present time I only have 24 kits & they will be sold on a first come first served basis. The kits consist of the following: 25 - short #40's 25 - #40's 50 - 1/8" 10 - 5/32" 10 - 3/16" 3 - 1/2" side grip clecos 3 - 1" side grip clecos 1 - pair of name brand cleco pliers The cost of each kit is $48.00 delivered U.S. Priority Mail anywhere within the continental U.S. The kits are packaged & ready to ship. I've personally checked all the clecos & there are no bad ones. Blue Skies! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Karl Schilling <k_schilling(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Electric piming the fuel system
Date: May 15, 2000
I used a solenoid from a local auto parts store that is for part of a nitrous oxide system. It works great, mounted on the firewall just above the gascolator. I installed a small pushbutton on the switch panel. RV-8 711KN 70 + hrs. and smiling more every day! Want to see it, go to www.globeswift.com and select Karl's RV-8, there is a very nice RV-4 on this site that just flew. -----Original Message----- From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com [SMTP:Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 01:16 Subject: RV-List: Electric piming the fuel system Listers, Does anyone have any experience with electric priming solenoids for engine priming? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Scott.Fink(at)Microchip.com.Mon, 15 May 2000 12:53:37.-0700(at)matronics.com
Subject: Cleaning off Mold Release
Date: May 15, 2000
05/15/2000 01:00:55 PM How do you clean off the mold release from the fiberglass parts that have been "released" so that you can add more layers of cloth? I am using West Systems epoxy and the paste wax type mold release from AC Spruce. Scott Fink RV6 skinning left wing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2000
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: Cleaning off Mold Release
Scott asked: How do you clean off the mold release from the fiberglass parts that have been "released" so that you can add more layers of cloth? I am using West Systems epoxy and the paste wax type mold release from AC Spruce. Scott Fink RV6 skinning left wing Scott, Below is an excerpt from the installation instructions for the Glasair style panel for the RV-6 that I sell. "The CIP (Composite Instrument Panel) as delivered will have a residue of mold release agent on the molded surface. This must be removed before any filler or primer is applied. The best way to remove this mold release is to sand it off using 320 grit wet/dry sandpaper and some fresh water with a couple drops of dish washing detergent. Sand enough to see that it's completely dull and fresh water won't bead on it. This will probably open up some more pin holes, but it's the only way to assure the release is all gone. If you don't get all the release off, it could chip easily after the final paint is applied. Let it dry completely before shooting any primer on it. If you happened to over trim on any part of your CIP, now is a good time to do the repairs. You'll have to get some good quality epoxy. Aircraft Spruce carries "West System" epoxies, and we recommend them. Rough up the back side of the panel with 180 grit sand paper. Put some masking tape on the front side of the CIP to form a temporary mold to layup the fiberglass on. Mix up a batch of epoxy and wet out the back side of the CIP. You can then take some of the lightweight fiberglass provided in the kit and put down 3 layers. Make sure they are completely wetted out. Leave alone for 24 hours, then peel back the masking take and retrim. You can now go ahead and do the preliminary finishing of your CIP." This is the process I recommend. Take it for what it's worth. Laird RV-6 N515L (taxied the RV for the 1st time yesterday) SoCal http://www.planes-wings-things.com/rv-6_panel.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2000
From: David Aronson <daronson(at)cwnet.com>
Subject: Re: Need platenut advice (long-ish)
Scott: Your going through the same things everyone has so take a big breath and relax. 1. I glued some angle stock to the front of the firewall. Use silicone sealer, just a dab every inch or so. The angle could be a 1X2 wood but aluminum is plentiful at this stage. Make sure it goes from bottom to edge below the nutplates and hinge. 2. When you redue the skin just place at the edge of the spacer under the hinge. Also use a strap over the foreskin to pull the skin taught over the platenut/hinge/spacer/flange. I'll scan an image this evening and send it to you later. Just order your new skin and get all the method down before you start. Isn't this fun!? More Later Dave Aronson RV4 N504RV "Van Artsdalen, Scott" wrote: > > Okay, I'm pretty upset with myself. I've been smoldering under the surface > since my latest screw-up. I've been attaching the top skin on my RV-4 > between the instrument panel and the firewall. Now I have several > questions, especially for -4 builders but I could use advice from just about > anyone. > > First of all, I installed the instrument panel per plans using the little > angles at the front of the cockpit side rails. When I do this it stands > straight up. When I install the top skin it pulls the firwall aft a bit. > Is this right? What can I do to keep the firewall straight? > > Second, the top skin has some serious puckers along the firewall where it > screws on. How did you guys keep the screws on the top skin from distorting > the curve of the top skin when screwed down? > > Third, I stripped some of the platenuts while trying to install the screws. > Anyone ever successfully rettaped platenuts or am I looking at installing > new platenuts? > > Fourth, the leading edge of the top front skin (fore skin :?), where is this > edge trimmed in relation to the hinge? Some of the hinge is exposed on mine > (really bad trimming). > > Fifth, (and finally) I think I am going to re-do this top skin (fore skin), > How can I make sure the holes on the new skin match up correctly with the > holes on the instrument panel and firewall which already have platenuts > installed? > > Thanks for sticking with this email this far and thanks for any help you can > give me!! > > -- > Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE > Network Administrator > Union Safe Deposit Bank > 209-946-5116 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "randy griffin" <skydog(at)pacifier.com>
Date: May 15, 2000
Subject: Re: F-804 Spacer Accuracy
> >> >>I'm ready to fabricate the spacer for my F-804 spar carrythrough >>bulkhead prior to installing it in the jig and I'm wondering what would >>constitute acceptable accuracy for thickness. My spar root ends are >>both 1 15/32" thick, but I don't have any means of cutting wood (or >>anything else) to the nearest 1/32". If I can come up with a 1.5" thick >>spacer, would the 'extra' 1/32" be a problem when I install my wings? >>What are other -8 builders doing in this area? >> >>-- >>Regards, >>Ken Balch > )Ken, when Randy Lervold was at this point we mic'ed his spars, and I machined four pieces of aluminum for him. They were .005" oversize. When it came time to fit the wings it became obvious that we made the right decision. I am now using the same pieces. Randy Griffin #80925 Fuse just now out of jig! (yeeeee haw) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net>
Subject: Enpennage for sale -rv6
Date: May 15, 2000
Sorry for being so unclear, the enpennage that is for sale is for a rv-6,located in Williamsville,Illinois. Enpennage is completed other than some very minor finish work on the tips. It was the prepunched version with the powder coated elevator horns. Workmanship in my opinion is excellent. Call at 217-566-2500 or reply by email at mphill(at)fgi.net. Asking price is $1100.oo ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net>
Subject: Re: Threads for aircraft bolts
Date: May 15, 2000
Frank, I was going to suggest you visit your Sears store to get a set of taps and dies, but they may not operate in N.Z.? For general knowlege, you can't beat the info in the "Standard aircraft handbook". It is a condensed collection of nearly everything you ever wanted to know about aircraft stuff. In fact, I consider it a "must have" reference. You can get one from Van's and most a/c parts suppliers. Tom Barnes -6 finishing. ----- Original Message ----- From: Frank and Dorothy <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 5:34 AM Subject: RV-List: Threads for aircraft bolts > > Hi all, > > I need to tap some thread to attach my roll-over bar (RV-6, tip-up) to > my fuselage, and also some for attaching the lift struts. > > According to Will Cretsinger's notes and the plans, I need to tap 10-32, > 5/16 x 18, and 8-32 threads in various holes. > > I'm almost completely ignorant about threads and taps and suchlike... > > Is there any special kind of tap-and-die set that I need? Do I need (God > forfend) "aviation-quality" taps (Avery and Cleaveland don't seem to > sell any), or can I just go down to my local hardware store and buy a > set there? If so, what do I ask for? Are these numbers "Whitworth"? Or > "BS"? Or something else? Are tap-and-die sets like other tools (i.e. > quality costs), or can I safely buy the cheapest that Taiwanese > manufacturing can produce? > > Frank. > RV-6 #24692, canopy frame, Marton, NZ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net>
Subject: Re: Electric piming the fuel system
Date: May 15, 2000
Jim, Aircraft Spruce sells one for just over $40. Check page 155 of current catalog. (Thanks to Glen Gordon for pointing this out to me). Tom Barnes -6 ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:15 PM Subject: RV-List: Electric piming the fuel system > > > Listers, > > Does anyone have any experience with electric priming solenoids for engine > priming? > > This sounds like a great idea. It puts one less fuel line inside the cockpit > since you can locate everything on the other side of the firewall. > > Thx, > > - Jim Andrews > Austin, Texas > RV-8Aq ( fuse & finish ) > N89JA (reserved) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2000
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: Rudder/tailwheel springs
Hi all, Quick question. How tight or loose should the tailwheel chains/springs be rigged? TIA, Laird RV-6 SoCal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2000
Subject: Re: IO-360-A1B6 on RV6A
From: "Shelby Smith" <shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com>
I believe Steve Barnard had to put some spacers on the lowerengine mounts and also he removed some of the sump. It was still tight. Let me know how it works out. Others have had the mount cut and re-welded. -- Shelby Smith shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com RV6A - Skinning Fuselage - 200HP N95EB - reserved ---------- >From: BSEckstein(at)cs.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: IO-360-A1B6 on RV6A >Date: Mon, May 15, 2000, 10:00 AM > > > > I'm wonderingif anyone can help with a problem encountered while mounting > the > engine on an RV6A. I've got an IO-360-A1B6 and the sump just barely touches > the engine mount about 3 inches below the lower Dynafocals. Has anyone run > into this? If so, how did you solve it. > > Thanks > Brian Eckstein > bseckstein(at)cs.com > 616-624-6719 h > 616-655-3248 w > > > From: BSEckstein(at)cs.com > Full-name: BSEckstein > Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 10:57:36 EDT > Subject: (no subject) > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > I'm wondering anyone can help with a problem encountered while mounting the > engine on an RV6A. I've got an IO-360-A1B6 and the sump just barely touches > the engine mount about 3 inches below the lower Dynafocals. Has anyone run > into this? If so, how did you solve it. > > Thanks > Brian Eckstein > bseckstein(at)cs.com > 616-624-6719 h > 616-655-3248 w > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: Need platenut advice (long-ish)
Date: May 15, 2000
Thanks Dave. By the time I'm done I will have built two RV-4's! BTW, I didn't see it on the plans, what spacer between the hinge and the firewall flange?!? -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE Network Administrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 -----Original Message----- From: David Aronson [mailto:daronson(at)cwnet.com] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:06 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Need platenut advice (long-ish) Scott: Your going through the same things everyone has so take a big breath and relax. 1. I glued some angle stock to the front of the firewall. Use silicone sealer, just a dab every inch or so. The angle could be a 1X2 wood but aluminum is plentiful at this stage. Make sure it goes from bottom to edge below the nutplates and hinge. 2. When you redue the skin just place at the edge of the spacer under the hinge. Also use a strap over the foreskin to pull the skin taught over the platenut/hinge/spacer/flange. I'll scan an image this evening and send it to you later. Just order your new skin and get all the method down before you start. Isn't this fun!? More Later Dave Aronson RV4 N504RV "Van Artsdalen, Scott" wrote: > > Okay, I'm pretty upset with myself. I've been smoldering under the surface > since my latest screw-up. I've been attaching the top skin on my RV-4 > between the instrument panel and the firewall. Now I have several > questions, especially for -4 builders but I could use advice from just about > anyone. > > First of all, I installed the instrument panel per plans using the little > angles at the front of the cockpit side rails. When I do this it stands > straight up. When I install the top skin it pulls the firwall aft a bit. > Is this right? What can I do to keep the firewall straight? > > Second, the top skin has some serious puckers along the firewall where it > screws on. How did you guys keep the screws on the top skin from distorting > the curve of the top skin when screwed down? > > Third, I stripped some of the platenuts while trying to install the screws. > Anyone ever successfully rettaped platenuts or am I looking at installing > new platenuts? > > Fourth, the leading edge of the top front skin (fore skin :?), where is this > edge trimmed in relation to the hinge? Some of the hinge is exposed on mine > (really bad trimming). > > Fifth, (and finally) I think I am going to re-do this top skin (fore skin), > How can I make sure the holes on the new skin match up correctly with the > holes on the instrument panel and firewall which already have platenuts > installed? > > Thanks for sticking with this email this far and thanks for any help you can > give me!! > > -- > Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE > Network Administrator > Union Safe Deposit Bank > 209-946-5116 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: O.A.T. Probe Location
Hi. I would like to install my O.A.T. probe in the NACA air intake in the side of my RV-6. The probe is 5/8" deep. How far back in the air intake can I put it and still be assured that it's hitting oncoming air? The instrument is by Electronics International. I'd like to have it as flush as possible so that it is not sticking out the side of the aircraft. Thanks. - Glenn Gordon "You can't make footprints in the sands of time if you're sitting on your butt. And who wants to make butt-prints in the sands of time?" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com
Date: May 15, 2000
Subject: RV-6 Fuselage Fuel Line
Listers, How much rudder pedal travel do you need at the bottom of the suspended rudder pedals in an RV-6? This is the distance between the resting position and wherever the pedal is when the rudder horn hits the stop. I'm trying to determine if my routing of the fuel line from the electric pump to the firewall is gonna work. It's a real mess trying to route that fuel line around the structure down there, while keeping it out of the way of clumsy feet and keeping it clear of the rudder pedals. If anyone wants to share a few hints, I'm in a listening mood. Thanks in advance, KB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Sigma Tek dimension needed
Hi again... I'm in panel planning stages here. I have a drawing from Sigma Tek of their model 5000B attitude gyro. The dimension I need right now is the one they didn't list. Aft of the bezel the instrument assumes a cylindrical shape almost all the way back. What is the diameter of the body of the instrument? Thanks. - Glenn Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net
Date: May 10, 2000
Subject: Re: Shirts (solved)
Listers, Paul has responded. He's been busy with a big order. He's mailing mine out today. Thanks to those in his vicinity who offered to help. Anh N985VU Maryland > >"Not quite RV-related. Has anyone ordered those shirts from Paul Brown >from Palm Beach Garden and not received them yet? - The ones with a picture >of your own RV embroidred on the pockets, supposedly to wear to SNF.... > >I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but the Blackjacks ordered 40 >shirts from them about six weeks ago which arrived in excellent shape last >week. That big order may have gotten them back up some. > >Just speculating... > >Mark >RV4 >KAWO > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2000
From: John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net>
Subject: Re: Cleaning off Mold Release
I have used WEST epoxy for years in boat projects. Best way to get the mold release wax or the film of waxy residue off is with a scotch bright pad and a solution of ammonia and water. Then it can be sanded without clogging paper. I have had experiences where sanding did not get it all off without the application of the ammonia solution. For quick easy wet sanding of small areas, use a spray bottle of windex (with ammonia) and wet and dry paper. Simple and effective. If you are going to lay up right away, use denatured alcohol as a solvent sparingly to wipe down. John Oliveira RV9a 90054 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: O.A.T. Probe Location
Date: May 16, 2000
> >Hi. I would like to install my O.A.T. probe in the NACA air intake in >the side of my RV-6. The probe is 5/8" deep. How far back in the air >intake can I put it and still be assured that it's hitting oncoming >air? The instrument is by Electronics International. I'd like to have >it as flush as possible so that it is not sticking out the side of the >aircraft. > >Thanks. >- Glenn Gordon > >"You can't make footprints in the sands of time if you're sitting on >your butt. And who wants to make butt-prints in the sands of time?" That's where I had the OAT probe on my RV-6. I found that it read consistently higher than true OAT. Couldn't figure out why until someone on the list pointed out that heated air from the engine cowling was probably 'leaking' from the area where the cowling meets the fuselage. I'd considered placing the probe out on the under side of the wing if I had really wanted an accurate temp but never bothered to do that. John Ammeter 1975 Jensen Healey RV-6 (sold 4/98) EAA Technical Counselor NRA Life Member Council Member, Snohomish Indian Tribe ICQ#48819374 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marian and Scott Sawby" <mkr(at)netw.com>

May 10, 2000 - May 15, 2000

RV-Archive.digest.vol-im