RV-Archive.digest.vol-io
May 22, 2000 - May 28, 2000
>switch on
>the boost pump and it goes to 3 psi. No noticeable change in power with or
>without the boost pump. With the boost pump on or off it indicates the same
>on the ground or at low levels. This figure is sometime 4 psi and sometimes
>3 psi.
>
>inch below the fuselege. I don't know if that would be the reason that this
>problem/worry occures up at a higher altitude.
>
>Anyone with experience with this problem/worry?
>
>
Many have reported that fuel pressure on RVs varies a lot. It varies a
lot on my airplane but stays well within specs. I do not consider it a
problem.
My cylinder head temps and oil temps also vary a lot but they also remain
well within specs. I do not consider that a problem either.
If memory serves, .5 psi is the lower limit specified by Lycoming. If
mine ever goes below that I will try to find out why. I think sometimes
we have too much information and all that information makes us worry
about things that should not really be worrysome.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George True <true(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for small xponder |
Scott, I don't know how soon you need it, but Microair of Australia will soon be
coming out with a 2 1/4" round transponder designed to match their excellent 2
1/4" round com radio. Preliminary word is that the cost will be around $1200
USD. It's supposed to come out sometime this year. There's nothing about it on
their website yet, but if you contact them by e-mail, I am sure they would be
happy to tell you all about it.
Their website is www.microair.com.au - Their e-mail is :
sales(at)microair.com.au
George True
Van Artsdalen, Scott wrote:
>
> In the most recent issue of the Rvator there is a picture of an RV-4 panel.
> There is a small transponder on the panel in that picture. Does anyone know
> the make/model of that xponder? Is there another small transponder that
> anyone knows of aside from the offerings by Terra?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
> Network Administrator
> Union Safe Deposit Bank
> 209-946-5116
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Crosley, Rich" <RCROSLEY(at)HRTEXTRON.TEXTRON.COM> |
Here is what the "BOOK" says............
AC 43.13-1B, Page 4-11, Para 4-52a
"Rivet Holes. Rivet holes are slightly larger than the diameter of the
rivet. When driven, solid rivets expand to fill the hole. The strength of
a riveted joint is based upon the expanded diameter of the rivet.
Therefore, it is important that the proper drill size be used for each rivet
diameter."
Rich Crosley #80948
Palmdale, CA Starting fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Navaid for Sale |
ALEX
could you fax me detailed info on servo mounting before you sell your unit.
thanks in advance
scott
tampa
rv6a tipper
N015EY RESERVED
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for small xponder |
Yeah, I talked to them about it two years ago and that's what they said
then. I really like their radio and would probably go with both the radio
and the transponder if they would just get it on the market! My only
reluctance in buying their radio was that I'd have a cool round radio and
then have to buy a big bulky xponder. I'm in no hurry for the transponder
but I wish they'd come out with it already!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: George True [mailto:true(at)uswest.net]
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 9:44 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for small xponder
Scott, I don't know how soon you need it, but Microair of
Australia will soon be
coming out with a 2 1/4" round transponder designed to match
their excellent 2
1/4" round com radio. Preliminary word is that the cost
will be around $1200
USD. It's supposed to come out sometime this year. There's
nothing about it on
their website yet, but if you contact them by e-mail, I am
sure they would be
happy to tell you all about it.
Their website is www.microair.com.au - Their e-mail is
:
sales(at)microair.com.au
George True
Van Artsdalen, Scott wrote:
>
> In the most recent issue of the Rvator there is a picture
of an RV-4 panel.
> There is a small transponder on the panel in that picture.
Does anyone know
> the make/model of that xponder? Is there another small
transponder that
> anyone knows of aside from the offerings by Terra?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
> Network Administrator
> Union Safe Deposit Bank
> 209-946-5116
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Roseblade <davidagr(at)emirates.net.ae> |
| Subject: | Installation of rivets in thin skins |
Greetings,
I came across a book published by Jepperson subject: Aircraft Sheet Metal,
interestingly there is a statement that when using solid rivets in thin
metal skins it is required that the shop head height be 0.66 times the dia
of the rivet and width 1.33 times the dia. This is contrary to normal
guidelines using 0.5 D and 1.5 D as the normal upset dimensions. I have
noted that if this is used the skins sit together more accurately with less
distortion.
Any listers comments on this would be appreciated.
David Roseblade
RV6A wing skins
UAE, Persian Gulf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rough engine |
On 22 May 00, at 20:03, Denny Harjehausen wrote:
>
> Mentioning fuel flow brings to mind a problem or rather a worry that I
> have with my fuel pressure indication. I have a RMI Mon. At around 6000'
> I have noticed a couple of times the indication will read 1 psi or less.
> I switch on the boost pump and it goes to 3 psi.
snip
> Anyone with experience with this problem/worry?
Check the archives for the Dec 99 thru Feb 00 time frame. I had similar
problems. Summary: Lycoming said lower pressure at altitude
(especially when cold) is normal for diaphram pumps. Also, VDO fuel
pressure transducer is terribly non-linear at low pressure.
Tim
******
Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring for Landing & Nav lites etc... |
> I am currently planning the wiring that goes into the wing of my RV-8.
> This has raised the question of whether how to handle GROUND return
> wiring. Could make a ground connection to the nearest convenient point
> close to each lite and let the wing/fuselage provide the GROUND return.
> Or could run a separate GROUND wire all the way back to the battery.
>
> Using the wing/fuselage to provide the GROUND return saves wire and
> weight. Are there any subtle issues that one should know about regarding
> this topic.
Tom,
You will undoubtedly get varied opinions on this. Personally, I am a firm
believer in the single-point ground philosophy. Bob Nuckoll's, well known
electrical guru, also espouses this point of view. In fact it is well
explained in his book, the AeroElectric Connection, which other builders
have recommended to you.
Here's the problem, miliohms of resistance can be incurred in the path
through the airframe. I strongly recommend reading Bob's book for an
understanding of the impact of this resistance, and for an education on
ground loops. For something like lights this isn't a big deal. But when it
involves anything having to do with your audio system I'd *strongly*
recommend completely isolating from the airframe. Some builder's want to
eliminate the ground wires to save weight. Ok, add up the weight of the wire
saved, then offset that with decreased voltage and potential ground loops.
My plane will have ground wires for everything all terminating in Mr.
Nuckoll's ground block system. You can see a preliminary view of this at
www.rv-8.com/pgBattery.htm or get further information at
www.aeroelectric.com.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, only the oil cooler and a few platenuts to go before this plenum is
done!
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Award Winning RV-6 For Sale |
http://home.earthlink.net/~wallyander/
Champion kitplane, Oshkosh, Wi. 1996
Champion kitplane, Arlington, Wa. 1995
VAN'S RV6
N12WA
Airframe Total Time: 1997
Hours Engine Times: 118 SMOH
Avionics
Terra 760 Com, Terra Transponder, Terra 200 Nav,
Terra Nav head. Azden multi-frequency Transceiver.
GPS: Appollo 360 moving map and connected to
Nav-Aid wing leveler.
Other Equipment
Complete Engine and fuel instruments by Electronics
International.
Interior
Leather seats with adjustable lumbar support, Custom
built fiberglass shock mounted instrument panel, Glove
box storage between seats.
Selling Price: $95,000
Wally Anderson: (w) 541-683-2328 (h) 541-342-5240
wallyander(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Kuebler" <skuebler(at)cannondesign.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hammerless C-Frame is finally ready |
Has anybody heard or received anything from Steve lately?
I sent my check two months ago. The check hasn't been cashed and I haven't heard
anything about the C-frame tool.
I E-mailed Steve last week, but haven't received a response yet.
I was wondering if anyone else has had any luck?
Scott Kuebler
Buffalo, NY
RV-6a (waiting to dimple all of these wing skins)
>>> Steve Nichols 03/17 10:35 AM >>>
Listers,
After much toil and trouble, the Hammerless C-frame Modification is
ready. We have had to wait for the Patent Office to do their thing, so
that was a major delay.
I want to offer this kit to everyone on the list for what it costs
us to make , which is $175.00. If you are not familiar with this
modification or want more information then please email me directly.
I will take orders until Monday, March 27. Then I will place the
order for the parts necessary to build the units. It takes 3 to 6 weeks
to get all the parts in.
Please email me at: snichols(at)stateengineering.com if you have any
questions.
Thanks,
Steve Nichols
(RV-4 Wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Installation of rivets in thin skins |
>
>Greetings,
>
>I came across a book published by Jepperson subject: Aircraft Sheet Metal,
>interestingly there is a statement that when using solid rivets in thin
>metal skins it is required that the shop head height be 0.66 times the dia
>of the rivet and width 1.33 times the dia. This is contrary to normal
>guidelines using 0.5 D and 1.5 D as the normal upset dimensions. I have
>noted that if this is used the skins sit together more accurately with less
>distortion.
>
>Any listers comments on this would be appreciated.
>
>David Roseblade
I have also noted a bit less distortion when setting rivets a bit
less than the nominal amount. The MIL-SPEC for riveting
(MIL-R-47196A ) is available at:
http://home.flash.net/~gila/rivet_spec/rivet_a.htm
It gives minimum head diameters of 0.122" for 3/32" rivets, and
0.163" for 1/8" rivets. Both these work out to about 1.30 x dia. So,
according to the MIL-SPEC, you are OK.
Interestingly enough, that spec also gives maximum head heights, but
I ignore those. I surmise that the max head height is given because
if the head is too long you are just carrying around unnecessary
weight. That spec was published by Missile Command, and missile
performance is very sensitive to excess weight.
Distortion can also be reduced by setting the shop head (where the
bucking bar is) against the thicker piece of material, if the two
pieces of material are different thicknesses.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit floors)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Busick" <panamared(at)brier.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Any second thoughts (too long) |
>My open question was to promote thought on how you deal with your >own
doubts (if any) and how you deal with any family members who
>have concerns about the safety of building your own airplane.
Rick
I do a lot of High Risk activities, which includes building and flying
airplanes, aerobatics, cross country hang gliding, etc. Yesterday I was
Kayaking on a Class V River that has been unkind to many unprepared kayakers
and I was battling death or injury in every rapid! I mention this only to
let you know, I have experience on surviving high risk activities.
Surviving high risk activities is all about risk management. Understand the
risk, train and prepare for it, and have a back up if things go bad (which
often times they do).
My family and friends will never understand my reasons for doing the high
risk activities that I do. But, I would not be who I am if I did not
challenge death on a regular basis. You never really appreciate life until
you have looked death in the eye and won!
And I figure you challenge death every day and every time you fly, either in
your own plane or a commercial airliner. Regardless of how you configure
the statistics, if you never fly, you will never die in a plane crash. It
also helps to understand how you would like to die. I would prefer to die
in a plane crash then from a long drawn out battle with cancer. I fear
death of cancer over death from an airplane crash. Once again Risk
Management.
Napoleon once asked when he was looking for Generals (Field Marshals) in his
Army, he asked
"...is he lucky?
Only you know if you are lucky or not. I define luck as PREPARATION MEETING
OPPORTUNITY. Preparation includes training, experience, judgement,
planning, knowledge and a bunch of other things (part of that sixth sense).
Just do what you can to reduce the risks, so that you will have a high
percentage shot, instead of the one in a million win in the lottery.
Tell your family how you have reduced the risks. They won't understand what
you say, but, how you say it will make them fell better.
Do I have doubts, yes I do. But, I also radiate supreme confidence that
sometimes even convinces me. Most high risk activities require this extreme
confidence in your abilities. You have to have the confidence, but, you
also have to be truthful with yourself. In high risk activities, you can
lie to your buddies at the bar, but never lie to yourself. If you don't
think you can do it, then learn how, practice and manage the risks in your
favor.
When building an airplane, you almost can not have too many people come over
and look it over, this includes from the EAA Tech Counselor to the next door
neighbor's six year old kid.
Get flight training, a great confidence builder is to learn how to land a
taildragger with a 60 degree twenty knot gusting crosswind and land
centerline on one wheel and turn off (downwind) at the first taxiway. Of
course do this with an instructor and then practice and practice. Once you
can do this, you will have that supreme confidence in your abilities (at
least to land). Another great confidence builder is the IFR ticket and or
commericial license. I am appalled at how many Cessna drivers I have seen
that
can not land centerline! FYI, the cheapest insurance and best deal in
aviation is time spent flying with a CFI.
As a Class V Raft Guide, I deal with people's doubts and safety concerns on
every trip. Your concerns are what I would consider normal. What most
people really want when they express their doubts is for some one to help
and guide them through the process, correct them when they are wrong and
reassure them when they are right. They never expect you to say that all
risks have been eliminated. They just want to know if you know what you are
doing.
Keep building, get training, study and read about flying and building. Talk
to others who have done the same thing before. Your confidence will
increase as you gain knowledge and experience. And your confidence is
reassuring to others and is infectious as well. Do not confuse confidence
with reckless abandon.
But always remember, you can do everything right and put all the risks in
your favor and still die! If you can not accept this last statement then
you probably should not attempt the high risk activity.
Bob Busick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Wills" <willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil> |
Any of you So Cal listers heard anything about the Bakersfield BBQ this
year? I assume it will be on June 3rd but havent seen anything about it so
just wanted to confirm.
Mike Wills
RV-4 engine stuff (Mazda 13B)
willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bakersfield BBQ |
--- Mike Wills wrote:
>
> Any of you So Cal listers heard anything about the
> Bakersfield BBQ this
> year? I assume it will be on June 3rd but havent
> seen anything about it so
> just wanted to confirm.
>
> Mike Wills
> RV-4 engine stuff (Mazda 13B)
> willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil
>
>
According to the Southern California Wing of Van's Air
Force web site Calendar
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com/id18.htm , the BBQ is 3
PM on 3 June.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
Flying So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillyRV6(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-6 tip rib rivets |
I have a ? On the rivets that attach the rear spare to the tip rib (Sta
125.375.) On drawing 20 there is a note that says, space to miss final rivets
per DWG 21. I'm not Shore what they mean. I know you use the flush rivets but
I don't see the rivets interfering with the rivets in the aileron bracket.
The only thing i can come up with is to put the flush rivets so they are not
inline with the aileron bracket rivets
Well, I hope someone can help.
Bill H.
Pembroke Ma.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Source for inexpensive Battery Load Tester |
>
>Some time ago, there was discussion about the importance of testing or
>otherwise ensuring battery capacity for those with electrical powered EFI or
>Ignition. Also related was the note that starting power is not a sufficient
>indicator of sustaining capacity. It appeared that either LOAD testing of
>the battery or periodic replacement were the two favored approaches. Load
>testing being the easiest and least expensive if you had a LOADing device.
>
>I notice in the DAMARK catalog a 100 amp battery load tester for $19.99
>tests six and twelve volt batteries and I have ordered one. If anyone else
>is interested the part number is B-40440-735122 and the web site that it
>can be ordered from by catalog is www.damark.com if interested. No vested
>interest in the company or product.
>
>Ed
>
>Ed Anderson
>RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>Matthews NC
>eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com\
"Load" testing with a calibrated instrument is a more
sophisticated methodology but in the same category
as observing how well it cranks the engine. Both actions
involve heavy current flow 100+ amps for seconds.
The big concern is for CAPACITY which is how LONG the
battery will supply energy into a specific load.
You can download a schematic for a battery CAPACITY
tester at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/battest.pdf
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( still understand knothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Somewhere in the recess of my mind, I recall something being said about a
>difference between store bought switches and aviation quality switches. I
>have looked through all my library and cannot find any reference that
>directs an answer to this ponderence. Tony Bingelis says that there are
>probably many 'Radio Shack' switches out there in homebuilt aircraft, but it
>bothers me to go 'downtown' for switches if I am supposed to be getting
>aircraft switches.
What's an "aircraft" switch? Never saw one with that
terminology marked on it. There's plenty of advertising
hype designed to convince folk that a particular offering
is more suited to aircraft than another product . . .
but no matter how much you spend for a switch, does that
guarantee that it will never fail? If it might fail,
what is your "plan-b" for dealing with the failure? If
you've GOT a plan-b, then is the absolute quality of the
switch all that important?
I can tell you that the row of rockers that went into
tens of thousands of single engine Cessnas cost them
under $1.00 each. The vast majority of those installed
at the factory are still operating 20+ years later.
> . . . Even 'Electric Bob' seems quiet on this topic other than
>to say that the switch should be heavy duty and a snap action switch which
>is rated for the load to be placed on it. Where is the reference that I
>remember about AC and DC rated switches? Can anyone point the way?
I just got back to Wichita after a week of errant electron
stomping in CT . . . working a proble with the de-ice
system on the Beechjet. Took the day off from RAC to try
and catch up on duties at home.
You can download a copy of an article I did for Sport
Aviation a few years ago at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( still understand knothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Navaid for Sale |
Sure, I'll take some pictures of the mount and pushrod attach stuff. Might
be a while, remind me in a couple weeks.
Alex
----------
> From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: New Navaid for Sale
> Date: Monday, May 22, 2000 12:23 PM
>
>
> ALEX
> could you fax me detailed info on servo mounting before you sell your
unit.
> thanks in advance
> scott
> tampa
> rv6a tipper
> N015EY RESERVED
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net> |
| Subject: | Lasar control box - mounting location |
Hi,
I am planning to mount the Lasar ignition control box on the engine side
of the firewall (right hand side), which is where the instructions suggest
it be placed on a C-172. I would like to hear from you if you have found a
better location or if there are any concerns I should consider.
Thanks in advance.
Tom Barnes -6 finishing O-360
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 rollbar question |
Scott: The only thing to consider is if you are an extra tall person. I have
met
you and you should just go ahead and drill the holes. I'm interested in what you
used to clamp or otherwise narrow the roll bar. I used a large poney clamp and
black bar. Just building my knowledge for the next time.
By the way, could you put me into contact with the builder who is now using the
fuselage jig. I have the opportunity to purchase another kit.
Dave Aronson
RV4 N504RV
engine mounting this weekend
"Van Artsdalen, Scott" wrote:
>
> I am getting ready to mount the roll bar on my RV-4. Before I do so (I
> spent the entire weekend correcting my mistakes) I would like to know if
> there's anything I should consider before I drill holes. Do I need to leave
> room for the canopy hinge? Is there anything else I should take into
> account before I make holes?
>
> Thanks again!
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
> Network Administrator
> Union Safe Deposit Bank
> 209-946-5116
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cmcgough <rv6(at)ssc.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 tip rib rivets |
I dont have my plans in front of me but I seem to remember that the aileron
bracket is pre drilled. Hold the bracket onto spar mark where those holes are
then you can decide where to put the flush rivets that hod tip rib on. I think
the note is so you can get your distance from aileron rivets to rib rivets.
Hope this makes sense.
Chris Fuse just out of jig. AUST
BillyRV6(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I have a ? On the rivets that attach the rear spare to the tip rib (Sta
> 125.375.) On drawing 20 there is a note that says, space to miss final rivets
> per DWG 21. I'm not Shore what they mean. I know you use the flush rivets but
> I don't see the rivets interfering with the rivets in the aileron bracket.
> The only thing i can come up with is to put the flush rivets so they are not
> inline with the aileron bracket rivets
>
> Well, I hope someone can help.
> Bill H.
> Pembroke Ma.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lasar control box - mounting location |
Tom, That's where I put mine, just rt. of center up high. Good place, out
of the way from my sloppy oil filter removals, though I am getting better at
that now.
Rick Caldwell
-6 O-320-D1A CS Prop 65 hrs since January
Melbourne, FL
>From: "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Lasar control box - mounting location
>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:32:49 -0500
>
>
>Hi,
> I am planning to mount the Lasar ignition control box on the engine
>side
>of the firewall (right hand side), which is where the instructions suggest
>it be placed on a C-172. I would like to hear from you if you have found a
>better location or if there are any concerns I should consider.
>Thanks in advance.
>Tom Barnes -6 finishing O-360
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clay Smith <clayfly(at)libertybay.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Cooler Placement on RV-4 |
Hi Listers,
Has anyone been able to place their oil cooler on the baffle of an O-320 powered,
fixed
pitched prop, RV-4? If so, did you place it on the front/left, rear/left, or rear/right
baffle?
Thanks,
Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X
Indiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lasar control box - mounting location |
> Hi,
> I am planning to mount the Lasar ignition control box on the engine
side
> of the firewall (right hand side), which is where the instructions
suggest
> it be placed on a C-172. I would like to hear from you if you have found
a
> better location or if there are any concerns I should consider.
> Thanks in advance.
> Tom Barnes -6 finishing O-360
I put mine on the left side because the harness wire to the left magneto
was much shorter than the one to the right mag. If I had put it all the
way to the right side, it would not have reached the left magneto.
Alex
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D. Winters" <dtw50(at)freewwweb.com> |
| Subject: | #40 vs #41 Drills |
Just my two cents worth on the #40 vs. #41 drill size.
I like the idea of sticking with Van's suggestion unless there is good
supporting evidence to deviate from the design. The fact that you don't let
the rivet expand in the hole as much *could* result in a higher stress
concentration in the rivet body due to the more pronounced hourglass shape
of the rivet set (the shop head will be larger, and the body will be
smaller).
I know this may be splitting hairs, but then again....
Don Winters
Empenage: 90% finished
Wings: Delivery due May 30
Remember:
Professionals built the Titanic,
Amatuers built the Arc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How to wire the PTT switch |
>
>How do I connect the push to talk switch to the microphone jack so that I
>can transmit?
>
>Steve Soule
>Huntington, Vermont
>RV-6A smoke testing the wires (some of them)
Steve,
Take a peek at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/connect/s606m.jpg
Looking at the rear view of the microphone jack in
the image (right side) the push-to-talk connections
are the PTT terminal at 12:00 and the GND terminal
just barely visible in the photo at 2:00 . . . ignore
the MIC audio terminal at 5:00.
Use a twisted pair of 22AWG wire to extend the ground
and PTT and GND terminals to your pushbutton location.
If you need a really nice, itty-bitty button, we
stock them. You can take a peek at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/switch.html#s708-1
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( still understand knothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lasar control box - mounting location |
> I am planning to mount the Lasar ignition control box on the engine
side
> of the firewall (right hand side), which is where the instructions suggest
> it be placed on a C-172. I would like to hear from you if you have found
a
> better location or if there are any concerns I should consider.
> Thanks in advance.
> Tom Barnes -6 finishing O-360
Ditto, put mine there on my -8. It can be seen on my web site if you're
interested.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, plenum/baffling/cowling
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | RE: noise, was: How to wire the PTT switch |
Thanks to all who responded with instructions about how to hook up the PTT.
I had it connected correctly when I posted that message. I just couldn't
get the radio to transmit. Now I think I've solved the problem. The switch
appears to be intermittently bad. After I pried it out of the control
stick, I could get it to transmit if I wiggled one of the contacts. So I
can run the plane with the wires hanging out of the stick and wiggle the
right one when I want to transmit, or I can replace the switch. Or maybe it
will fix itself, that sometimes happens doesn't it?
The current problem is that I have a high pitched tone in the headset
whenever the transponder is on. It doesn't matter how long the transponder
is on, the tone is there. In other words, the tone is there when the
transponder is warming up and stays there after it is operating. What could
this be? Oh yeah, the radio has to be on, too. If the radio is off, then
there is no tone. It's not coming in through the intercom.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
If you need a really nice, itty-bitty button, we
stock them. You can take a peek at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/switch.html#s708-1
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark McGee" <riveter(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Flap Brace Question |
Mike,
I made two cuts, flattened the flange, and rebent it to attach to the spar
web between the spar plates. It was tricky bending the new flanges and
having it all sit flat on the spar. To ensure I got the proper bend angle I
made two patterns out of aluminum strips about one-half inch wide. Flanges
were bent on these patterns and once I was satisfied with the patterns I
bent the actual flap brace with appropriately sized wood blocks.
I used flat head rivets at the top of the spar where the flap brace went and
at the bottom of the spar outboard where the aileron gap seal went. I used
universal head rivets at all rib locations where there was no interference.
I have photos, but they are in storage with my household goods in a
warehouse. I just relocated from New York to Atlanta last week. My wings are
with me and I could take new photos and scan them if you contact me off the
list.
Mark McGee
Atlanta
RV4 on hold due to relocation
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of N8292W(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2000 12:27 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Flap Brace Question
I am working on the RV-4 wing and have a question on the flap brace. How do
I cut it to fit around the step up portion of spar root plates?? The
directions say 'cut flap brace to step up on spar root plates.' Does
someone
have a digital picture or specific directions as to how to do this?? Any
help
would be greatly appreciated.
Also, should I use flat head rivets on the entire rear wing spar to ribs, or
only on the areas that will interfere with the flap support brace?? Thank
you
-Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Reynolds <RVReynolds(at)macs.net> |
Mike Comeaux wrote:
> I have a rv6a-QB do they include fuel senders with the kit?
The reason Van provides an Accessories Catalog in every kit is because
you will need one or more of everything in there. I paid about $12,000
for the kit and paid about $40,000 for "accessories".
;(
Richard Reynolds, Norfolk VA, RV-6A, still buying accessories
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Battery Loader Not Available |
The battery loader I mentioned in previous e mail is no longer available
from DAMARK.
Ed
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.James" <vtx(at)ntplx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel sender, and further more.. |
> Mike Comeaux wrote:
> > I have a rv6a-QB do they include fuel senders with the kit?
And further more.. 5 recent, hard learn't lessons of mine.
1) The Vans fuel senders are "resistance" type, not "capacitance".
2) Westach "duel" fuel gauges come in 2 flavors; 2DA4V & 2DA4
3) The one with "V" after it, is "capacitence", NOT FOR VANS SENDERS!
4) Aircraft Spruce DOES NOT carry 2DA4, only has 2DA4V (wrong kind)
5) Call Westach direct, http://www.westach.com/ for 2DA4 @ $82 ..
:=( _ _ _
RJ in CT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack K. Holley" <jkholley(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6 Tail Kit For Sale |
For Sale: Partially completed RV6 tail kit.
I recently acquired this kit from another lister. He had completed the
rudder portion of the kit. I have done no further work on it. A change in
circumstances dictates this sale.
Rudder complete
Pre-punched skins
Electric trim option included (MAC servo kit)
Tail kit plans
RV6 preview plans
No tools, jigs or builder's manual included. (Builder's manual is available
from Van's.)
Price: $850.00
The kit is located in suburban Chicago area.
Contact me at jkholley(at)earthlink.net if interested.
Jack Holley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lasar control box - mounting location |
>
>
> > Hi,
> > I am planning to mount the Lasar ignition control box on the engine
> side
> > of the firewall (right hand side), which is where the instructions
> suggest
> > it be placed on a C-172. I would like to hear from you if you have
found
> a
> > better location or if there are any concerns I should consider.
> > Thanks in advance.
> > Tom Barnes -6 finishing O-360
>
> I put mine on the left side because the harness wire to the left magneto
> was much shorter than the one to the right mag. If I had put it all the
> way to the right side, it would not have reached the left magneto.
>
> Alex
>
I also mounted mine on the left side too. Not only because of the harness
length, but because of where the heat muff is located. With the Vetterman
exhaust and the heat muff from Van's, I could only get it to fit on the
right exhaust. So I put the heat box on the right side of the firewall.
Also, your alternator will be on the right side of the engine. I ran the #4
wire to the alternator through the firewall on the right side as well. It
was a straight shot along the case to the alternator.
Just a few things to keep in mind. In the overall scheme of things, it
doesn't make a whole lot of difference. You can put it anywhere and adjust
all the other things.
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6
"Waiting for my "Das Fed" to show up"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lasar control box - mounting location |
>
>
> > Hi,
> > I am planning to mount the Lasar ignition control box on the engine
> side
> > of the firewall (right hand side), which is where the instructions
> suggest
> > it be placed on a C-172. I would like to hear from you if you have
found
> a
> > better location or if there are any concerns I should consider.
> > Thanks in advance.
> > Tom Barnes -6 finishing O-360
>
> I put mine on the left side because the harness wire to the left magneto
> was much shorter than the one to the right mag. If I had put it all the
> way to the right side, it would not have reached the left magneto.
>
> Alex
>
I also mounted mine on the left side too. Not only because of the harness
length, but because of where the heat muff is located. With the Vetterman
exhaust and the heat muff from Van's, I could only get it to fit on the
right exhaust. So I put the heat box on the right side of the firewall.
Also, your alternator will be on the right side of the engine. I ran the #4
wire to the alternator through the firewall on the right side as well. It
was a straight shot along the case to the alternator.
Just a few things to keep in mind. In the overall scheme of things, it
doesn't make a whole lot of difference. You can put it anywhere and adjust
all the other things.
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6
"Waiting for my "Das Fed" to show up"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylorelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 rollbar question |
"Van Artsdalen, Scott" wrote:
>
> Do I need to leave room for the canopy hinge? Is there anything else I should
> take into account before I make holes?
>
> Thanks again!
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
I mounted the roll bar first and then trimmed the hinge to fit around it. I
also had to trim the canopy frame to fit around the roll bar in a place or two.
Carroll Bird 12 YE flown 5-20 What a blast.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery Loader Not Available |
ED HARBOR FREIGHT 18004232567 ITEM 06317-1HKH $26.99 TOM
Thomas M. Whelan
Whelan Farms Airport
Post Office Box 426
249 Hard Hill Road North
Bethlehem, CT 06751
PH 203-266-5300
FAX 203-266-5140
e-mail wfact01(at)aol.com
EAA Chapter 1097, President
RV-8 IO-540 LYC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kathy & Bill Peck" <peck(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting location for LASAR control box |
Scott -
I did exactly as you are planning on our -6A. The top of the box is about
midway up the firewall, and an inch or so in from the outboard edge.
I thought it would be good to keep it reasonably low on the firewall (avoid
at least some of the hot air that collects at the top of the cowl after
shutdown). I would have liked to put it on the cockpit side of the
firewall, but the connectors to the mags would have required a pretty big
feedthrough hole!
Mounting was straightforward. I am not using the CHT probe input - other
than high temps on the first flight (before I learned to keep the nose down
a little to keep airflow up!), temps have been just fine. (I also think
that new/tight engine syndrome contributed to that heat on the first
flight).
Since then, I believe that it really is helping with fuel economy - we
routinely see lower fuel burn rates on our O-360 (8.5 gph @ 10,500', 19" mp,
2650 rpm, w/ Sensenich 83" pitch prop, 50 deg rich of peak EGT) than we saw
with our O-320 in a Warrior. It may never pay back the extra purchase price
in reduced fuel cost, but anything I can do to help encourage Lycoming (et
al!) to move towards newer technology, I'll do if I can! (Now where's that
EFI sysem with sensors & feedback to get us up to automotive
economy/reliability?)
Good luck -
Bill & Kathy Peck - RV-6A(Q) flying!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)ispchannel.com> |
| Subject: | RMI MAP resolution |
Hi all,
After a 30 second conversation with Rob at RMI, my MAP is now displaying properly.
The OAT uses the
same display area as the MAP, and you can make it display there permanently (if
you don't have a MAP
for instance), or just when you push a momentary button. Many of the displays
on the RMI can be
disabled in the calibration section by putting -31 for the value. This makes the
display blank for
that section of the screen. It seemed logical to me that I should disable the
OAT since I didn't
have one, but since that shares the display area with the MAP, it also blanks the
MAP display. I
set the OAT cal value back to 0 (anything but -31), and the MAP displays fine now.
Thanks to all
that offered suggestions.
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (inspection 27th, RV transition training 30th-31st, and first
flight soon
after)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rough engine |
JVanLaak wrote:
> Thanks to all for comments and suggestions. It sounds like a sticking
valve
> is the likely culprit although I do not have "morning sickness", which I
am
> used to as the likely cause
I probably shouldn't respond having little experience with servicing
Lycomings but I have overhauled more than 200 other kinds of engines and
patched up even more.
So, I'll bet you a beer you do not have sticking valves. I'll bet you
another beer that the trouble is not with the engine itself but with easier
to fix stuff on the outside such as the fuel system, ignition, air supply,
timing etc.
Wouldn't a sticking valve be most likely to show up while idling and go away
when under power?
If I do have to buy you a beer, will you tell me what name people call you
by?
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Nosewheel stop on RV6a |
Do the ears on the nosewheel stop go behind or ahead of the gear leg? Plans
show (inadequately!) ears in front but I have been told the ears go behind.
(there needs to be a section thru the leg just above the stop so it is
clear)
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wind dammage at Lubbock,TX |
Monday afternoon was a beautiful day wind about 10 to 15 mph. Went to the
airport to do a few touch and goes just for fun and just to bum around. When
I got there there were two very sad young men standing in front of their C150
. It was upside down. They had flown down from Dallas in his fathers C150 to
visit some friends and while they were away from the airport a dust devil
came across the ramp and picked this plane up and laid it on its back. No
other planes were damaged just this one. There was very little fuel in the
tanks, it had not been fueled yet. and it was not tied down. Who would have
thought that a little dust devil could have done this.
I learned a lesson here: Tie the airplane down when you leave it, even if
its a beautiful day. Seeing this plane upside down was a sobering sight, I
will tie my plane down when I get out of it.
While talking to the owner or rather the owners son I offered them a place
to stay, suggested that this might be a blessing in disguise. Get the
insurance money and take the engine and build a RV9. Just tried to relieve
his depression and help them feel better.
This is not RV related but felt I should pass this along.
Tie the airplane down.
Terry E. Cole N468TC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <mdivan(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for a ride. |
I was wondering if there is anyone in the So. Cal. area with an RV-6A (or 6)
that could give a "demo" flight? I have the horizontal to a Glasair but due
to there current problems I am thinking about changing to an RV-6A or 9A.
But first I would like to see if I like flying in one. I live in Orange
county. I could buy you lunch at SBA or something.
Mike Divan
mdivan(at)home.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas Nguyen" <TNGUYEN(at)oss.oceaneering.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel stop on RV6a |
Hal,
I have my set behind the gear leg.
T.Nguyen
RV-6A
N747TN reserved
>>> "kempthornes" 05/23/00 08:48AM >>>
Do the ears on the nosewheel stop go behind or ahead of the gear leg? Plans
show (inadequately!) ears in front but I have been told the ears go behind.
(there needs to be a section thru the leg just above the stop so it is
clear)
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MMarkert(at)vul.com (Michael Markert) |
| Subject: | Marhyde self etch - not a moisture barrier |
FYI
I am getting tired of mixing epoxy primer and cleaing up my gun so I'm in
search of a spray can primer, however:
The Marhyde technical support representative told me:
"The Marhyde Self Etch is 95% water resistant but not water proof - therefore
a
top coat should be applied as soon as possible."
Until I find a spray can primer that is a moisture barrier, I'll stick with my
epoxy primer that meets mil specs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Loader Not Available |
Thanks Tom,
Ed
do not archieve
Subject: Re: RV-List: Battery Loader Not Available
>
> ED HARBOR FREIGHT 18004232567 ITEM 06317-1HKH $26.99 TOM
>
> Thomas M. Whelan
>
> Whelan Farms Airport
> Post Office Box 426
> 249 Hard Hill Road North
> Bethlehem, CT 06751
>
> PH 203-266-5300
> FAX 203-266-5140
> e-mail wfact01(at)aol.com
>
> EAA Chapter 1097, President
> RV-8 IO-540 LYC
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com |
| Subject: | Re: Any second thoughts (too long) |
5.0.3 (Intl)|21 March 2000) at 05/23/2000 10:38:10 AM
>>But, I would not be who I am if I did not
>>challenge death on a regular basis. You never really appreciate life
until
>>you have looked death in the eye and won!
REALLY? I must be missing something. I have a great appreciation for life,
which is one of the reasons I don't challenge death on a regular basis (or
ever if I can help it). I think part of my appreciation for life comes
from mourning the loss of those who have looked death in the eye...and
lost. I hope they found the fulfillment they craved because the price they
paid for it was the ultimate, that of their life.
>>And I figure you challenge death every day and every time you fly, either
in
>>your own plane or a commercial airliner.
Yes there are risks, no doubt about it...but IMHO I don't consider flying
(especially commercial) to be a death-defying experience. You can fly your
RV in such a manner if you choose, but it is entirely unnecessary.
No flame intended, just a different view of life and our attitudes toward
it.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, IA
RV-8A wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Looking for small xponder |
If the x-ponder was in a round hole, Terra makes a face plate conversion mask
that mounts the small Terra units into a round 2 1/4 inch format...........I
also think Becker makes a small x-ponder but it is very $$$$$.
svanarts(at)unionsafe.com on 05/22/2000 10:31:02 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Looking for small xponder
In the most recent issue of the Rvator there is a picture of an RV-4 panel.
There is a small transponder on the panel in that picture. Does anyone know
the make/model of that xponder? Is there another small transponder that
anyone knows of aside from the offerings by Terra?
Thanks!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Placement on RV-4 |
Rear left. Mount worked fine for me.
clayfly(at)libertybay.com on 05/22/2000 09:51:23 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Oil Cooler Placement on RV-4
Hi Listers,
Has anyone been able to place their oil cooler on the baffle of an O-320
powered, fixed
pitched prop, RV-4? If so, did you place it on the front/left, rear/left, or
rear/right baffle?
Thanks,
Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X
Indiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Hughes <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Any second thoughts |
WHOA!!!!
As one who spends his entire life working very hard to make sure that you DO
NOT look death in the eye on a commercial airliner, I will say that is FLAT OUT
WRONG. You want to look death in the eye, drive to the airport on a freeway in
any major city. If you want, I'll outline all the training, study, and work
the the hundreds of thousands of people go through to make sure that when you
get on a commercial airliner, the most you have to worry about is what that
sauce is that's on the chicken.
Flip statements like this really piss me off. Think before you type!
Keith Hughes
737 Pilot with 4,500+ hours of not staring death in the eye
>
>
> >>And I figure you challenge death every day and every time you fly, either
> in
> >>your own plane or a commercial airliner.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Wills" <willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | ultimate ventilator |
I saw the "Ultimate Ventilator" in the Cleaveland tool catalog last night
and was wondering whether or not any of you have used this and if so what
your opinion is? Particularly interested in RV4 canopy skirt installations.
I looked through the archives and the same question was posed about a
year ago but there was no response. Hoping someone has tried them since and
can provide some info.
Thanks,
Mike Wills
RV4 engine stuff (Mazda 13B)
willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles E. Brame" <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Fuel Tank Source |
A friend with a RV-4 has some pretty severe fuel tank leaks. He wants to
have a set of tanks commercially built and installed in his airplane.
Does anyone know of an individual or company who will custom build RV-4
fuel tanks? Preferably in Texas.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Fuel Tank Source |
Check with Paul Irlbeck. He's in not in Texas, though.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/
Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles E. Brame" <charleyb(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 4:20 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Fuel Tank Source
>
> A friend with a RV-4 has some pretty severe fuel tank leaks. He wants to
> have a set of tanks commercially built and installed in his airplane.
>
> Does anyone know of an individual or company who will custom build RV-4
> fuel tanks? Preferably in Texas.
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A QB
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>
>Hi Listers,
>
>I thought Quickbuilder's had to buy fuel senders?
>
>I have just ordered some for my own -6QB.
>
>Ed Hicks.
This is one of those interesting (and not uncommon) cases where someone
asks a simple question and gets completely contradictory answers. I sure
didn't get any senders with my quickbuild but then I am not related to
anyone in the Van's organization.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Fuel Tank Source |
In a message dated 5/23/00 11:49:44 AM Central Daylight Time,
charleyb(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< charleyb(at)earthlink.net >>
Charlie,
We have done fuel tanks for others. Please have the RV-4 guy give me a
call at 817-439-3280.
George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Nosewheel stop on RV6a |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
I think in front. I tried both & went with the one that worked. About 120
degrees each way.
Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
**********************************************
> Do the ears on the nosewheel stop go behind or ahead of the gear
> leg? Plans> show (inadequately!) ears in front but I have been told
the ears go
> behind.>
> (there needs to be a section thru the leg just above the stop so it is
clear)
>
> Hal Kempthorne
> RV6a N7HK
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 tip rib rivets |
In a message dated 5/22/00 4:47:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, BillyRV6(at)aol.com
writes:
<< The only thing i can come up with is to put the flush rivets so they are
not
inline with the aileron bracket rivets
>>
Bill: You've got it. Just make certain that the countersunk rivets won't
interfere with the rivets later used to attach the aileron hinge bracket.
Harry Crosby
-6 finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ultimate ventilator |
I have them in my 6A and they produce large amounts of air, not as much as the
NACA/eyeball vents but lots of air. It is hard to direct the air to where you
want it. I have found on hot days it is nice (in others peoples planes) to
direct the cool air directly at my face. This is not possible with the current
installation of the UV in my 6A. On the 4 you could mount them in the canopy
skirt and get good cooling air expecially for the back seat PAX.
Mike Wills wrote:
>
> I saw the "Ultimate Ventilator" in the Cleaveland tool catalog last night
> and was wondering whether or not any of you have used this and if so what
> your opinion is? Particularly interested in RV4 canopy skirt installations.
>
> I looked through the archives and the same question was posed about a
> year ago but there was no response. Hoping someone has tried them since and
> can provide some info.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Wills
> RV4 engine stuff (Mazda 13B)
> willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil
>
> _
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Christie" <billc(at)dancris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring for Landing & Nav lites etc... |
I would agree with Randy as to running separate grounds. I am building an 8
also and will run return wires for all functions. The major problems that
tend to show up are ground loops and the attendant noise couplings between
systems. I don't have Bob's experience in civilian planes, but for 10 years,
I maintained A7, P3, F4, A6 nad F14s. The Nav grounds all compartments
together with ground straps and still uses separate wire. I was told by a
Grumman rep that the ground strapping was because of the many antennas and
the need for a coherent ground plane. Not planning to mount an AWG-9 fire
control system, I'll pass on the ground straps and just use a star
configuration for the ground leads, and pay attention to where the antennas
are mounted.
Bill C., RV8A, Phoenix
----- Original Message -----
From: <Tdiede(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 7:55 AM
Subject: RV-List: Wiring for Landing & Nav lites etc...
>
>
> I am currently planning the wiring that goes into the wing of my RV-8.
> This has raised the question of whether how to handle GROUND return
> wiring. Could make a ground connection to the nearest convenient point
> close to each lite and let the wing/fuselage provide the GROUND return.
> Or could run a separate GROUND wire all the way back to the battery.
>
> Using the wing/fuselage to provide the GROUND return saves wire and
> weight. Are there any subtle issues that one should know about regarding
> this topic.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Tom Diede, finishing kit, RV8
> N848TD reserved
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barstad, Are" <BarstadA(at)bis.adp.com> |
| Subject: | Edge distance (Newbe question) |
I just finished cutting and preparing HS-610 and HS-614. It calls for an
edge distance of ". I assumed this was " from the center of the hole, not
the edge of the rivet head. Is this right?
Are
RV-6 Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ultimate ventilator |
I spent so much time and effort on my canopy that I could'nt imagine cutting it
for a NACA vent or the ultimate vent. I installed my (2) vents on the wing
bottom-left & right wing- like the RV-8 does (in my RV-4) Worked out very
nicely. I used Vans kits and mounted the eyeballs (air outlets) down on the very
bottom of the side skins almost on the floor right between the pilot &
passanger(RV-4) on the right & left side. As pilot I can reach down and aft and
adjust both vents, likewise my passanger can lean forward and down and adjust
both vents.
zilik(at)bewellnet.com on 05/23/2000 02:48:20 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: ultimate ventilator
I have them in my 6A and they produce large amounts of air, not as much as the
NACA/eyeball vents but lots of air. It is hard to direct the air to where you
want it. I have found on hot days it is nice (in others peoples planes) to
direct the cool air directly at my face. This is not possible with the current
installation of the UV in my 6A. On the 4 you could mount them in the canopy
skirt and get good cooling air expecially for the back seat PAX.
Mike Wills wrote:
>
> I saw the "Ultimate Ventilator" in the Cleaveland tool catalog last night
> and was wondering whether or not any of you have used this and if so what
> your opinion is? Particularly interested in RV4 canopy skirt installations.
>
> I looked through the archives and the same question was posed about a
> year ago but there was no response. Hoping someone has tried them since and
> can provide some info.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Wills
> RV4 engine stuff (Mazda 13B)
> willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil
>
> _
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Re-Man'd Fue tanks |
> Something I've always wondered, how on earth does one make a new set of
tanks
> and get the holes to line up with the platenut holes in the spar?
The tanks would be made without drilling the screw holes. The RV4 guy then
checks them for fit on his airplane and removes them. He will want to see
how the edges butt up against his wing skins. He can then use a thin piece
of plexi to duplicate the skin of the tank and carefully mark the holes.
Drill the plexi on the workbench and then check them on the wing. Adjust and
mark the plexi then transfer all of the holes onto the tank skin. Dimple
with squeezer (will not look as crisp as dimples made with a mallet in the C
Frame tool).
Note that this is not the kind of thing that you should just go ahead and do
because some one on the net said it was a good idea. Always ask Vans.
support(at)vansaircraft.com They always answer the email questions and they
might have a better way. It is very easy to CC a letter to one more address.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel stop on RV6a |
Interesting, I interperted the plans as and set mine in front.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A Rotary Powered
Matthews NC
> Hal,
>
> I have my set behind the gear leg.
>
> T.Nguyen
> RV-6A
> N747TN reserved
>
> >>> "kempthornes" 05/23/00 08:48AM >>>
>
> Do the ears on the nosewheel stop go behind or ahead of the gear leg?
Plans
> show (inadequately!) ears in front but I have been told the ears go
behind.
>
> (there needs to be a section thru the leg just above the stop so it is
> clear)
>
> Hal Kempthorne
> RV6a N7HK
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Wills" <willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: ultimate ventilator |
>
> I used Vans kits and mounted the eyeballs (air outlets) down on the very
>bottom of the side skins almost on the floor right between the pilot &
>passanger(RV-4) on the right & left side. As pilot I can reach down and
>aft and
>adjust both vents, likewise my passanger can lean forward and down and adjust
>both vents.
So you didnt go over the spar with Scat tubing and the eyeball vent is
actually beside your thigh (and your passengers foot)? I'd like to hear
from someone who is flying with this type of configuration to know how
effective it is before I committed to it.
I too spent a lot of time on my first set of canopy skirts. But after I
trashed them the second set came out a lot better and went a lot quicker
too. :-)
Mike Wills
RV4 engine stuff (Mazda 13B)
willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Any second thoughts |
Too much coffee this morning?
>
> WHOA!!!!
>
> As one who spends his entire life working very hard to make sure that you
DO
> NOT look death in the eye on a commercial airliner, I will say that is
FLAT OUT
> WRONG. You want to look death in the eye, drive to the airport on a
freeway in
> any major city. If you want, I'll outline all the training, study, and
work
> the the hundreds of thousands of people go through to make sure that when
you
> get on a commercial airliner, the most you have to worry about is what
that
> sauce is that's on the chicken.
>
> Flip statements like this really piss me off. Think before you type!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Edge distance (Newbe question) |
Are,im pretty sure its from the center of the hole
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barstad, Are" <BarstadA(at)bis.adp.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 2:16 PM
Subject: RV-List: Edge distance (Newbe question)
>
> I just finished cutting and preparing HS-610 and HS-614. It calls for an
> edge distance of ". I assumed this was " from the center of the hole, not
> the edge of the rivet head. Is this right?
>
> Are
> RV-6 Empennage
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Edge distance (Newbe question) |
Yes, edge distance is from center of hole to edge of material. Check
AC43.13-1B for more information.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
In the paint shop now
>From: "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Edge distance (Newbe question)
>Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 17:08:09 -0500
>
>
>Are,im pretty sure its from the center of the hole
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Barstad, Are" <BarstadA(at)bis.adp.com>
>To:
>Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 2:16 PM
>Subject: RV-List: Edge distance (Newbe question)
>
>
> >
> > I just finished cutting and preparing HS-610 and HS-614. It calls for an
> > edge distance of ". I assumed this was " from the center of the hole,
>not
> > the edge of the rivet head. Is this right?
> >
> > Are
> > RV-6 Empennage
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
A friend of mine who is not on the list is building an RV-8 and was telling
me about a recent problem he encountered. Thought I would see of any of you
8'ers have had the same experience and worked out a solution.
His canopy bow is 7/16" narrower than the mounting position on the fuselage.
He is considering pulling the fuselage sides together an equal amount to
make it fit. Comments?
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6 fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel stop on RV6a |
Ed Anderson wrote:
>
> Interesting, I interperted the plans as and set mine in front.
>
Yup, I interperted my plans too and came up with the same answer; stops go
up front.
The way I see it is that the aircraft can rotate around one main wheel. To
be able to do this without scrubbing action on the nosewheel, the nosewheel
has to be able to rotate enough to be tangent to the arc of the turning
circle. Stops in the back do not allow the nosewheel enough turn angle.
Gary Zilik
6A N99PZ Doing the paint thin one more time
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William M. Costello" <wmcent(at)enteract.com> |
Hi Folks,
Thought you might be interested in this.
A friend of mine, who shall go un-named since I have
not gotten his OK to send this, was flying his RV-6 on
which he has over 1000 hours, over a lake here in the
midwest when he had a seagull strike. Hit him pretty
square on the left wing leading edge in the panel just
inside the wingtip. Drove the leading edge just about
back to the front spar. (He was moving along at a
pretty good clip.)
After the initial shock, he said he didn't really notice
any difference in the flight characteristics of the plane.
Flew it back to his home airport.
He'll replace the leading edge wing skin and maybe
the tip ribs and be back in the air soon.
Take care,
Bill Costello
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rv-8 canopy bow |
Jerry,
This is a long and tiresome problem that we have all had. And it does not
seem to go away. You may want to check the archives for more info. The
basic answer is to stretch it out as far as you fell comfortable with, then
bolt it in place and go for it. One thing to keep in mind (ask me how I
know this) is after you mount the rollbar and you mount the canopy bow.
Check the dimension for the canopy mount rails but remember that the canopy
frame has to line up with the rollbar or the will not fit properly when you
go to install it. Just soemthing to keep in mind that is not in the manual.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
Painting..........FINALLY!!!
>From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: rv-8 canopy bow
>Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 17:34:22 -0500
>
>
>A friend of mine who is not on the list is building an RV-8 and was telling
>me about a recent problem he encountered. Thought I would see of any of
>you
>8'ers have had the same experience and worked out a solution.
>
>His canopy bow is 7/16" narrower than the mounting position on the
>fuselage.
>He is considering pulling the fuselage sides together an equal amount to
>make it fit. Comments?
>
>Jerry Calvert
>Edmond Ok -6 fuse
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Finished Fuel Tank Hole Finding |
I had to remake one of the fuel tanks for my RV-4, the first one had a slight
twist.
This is the way I found the holes:
With the tank off I duct taped a thin piece of Aluminum to the wing skin that
over lapped the tank holes. I then back drilled with #41 through the
existing nut plate and through the piece of Aluminum. I then Slid the new
tank on under the overlapping piece and drilled through the holes into the
new tank.
Rob Hickman
N401RH (42 Hours)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wndwlkr711(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for a ride. |
I can't help with the ride for another few years but if you want to see a
work in progress, fly out to Desert Center and I'll show you a a set of wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Lumpkin" <tlump(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Doug Dodge Inverted Fuel |
I am interested in using the ACRO Specialities inverted oil system
designed (I believe) by Doug Dodge. I reviewed a few of the list threads on
this product and, although it is described as being cheaper and a better
functioning unit than the Christen system, I couldn't find any messages from
someone who actually is flying with the unit.
Is anyone out there getting upside down with this system? I'd like to
know how the installation went and how it's working.
Thanks,
Ted
RV-4 - mounting the wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel stop on RV6a |
DWG C1, section E - E', Nose Wheel, Wheel and Gear Leg Fairing drawing
dated 2-99 shows the part with the ears forward. I think I got this
drawing with the fiberglass nose gear fairing. I have seen several planes
with the ears aft, and their steering radius must be much larger.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN 6A
----------
> From: kempthornes <kempthornes(at)home.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Nosewheel stop on RV6a
> Date: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 8:48 AM
>
>
> Do the ears on the nosewheel stop go behind or ahead of the gear leg?
Plans
> show (inadequately!) ears in front but I have been told the ears go
behind.
>
> (there needs to be a section thru the leg just above the stop so it is
> clear)
>
> Hal Kempthorne
> RV6a N7HK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | ATTN RV-8(A) QB Builders |
For you 8(A) QB builders there is an important notice on the opening
page of Van's Website. I have included the URL below
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv8_%20letter.htm
Gary Zilik
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rv-8 canopy bow |
Thanks Mike, I will check the archives and see what I can dig out.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6 fuse
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: rv-8 canopy bow
>
> Jerry,
>
> This is a long and tiresome problem that we have all had. And it does not
> seem to go away. You may want to check the archives for more info. The
> basic answer is to stretch it out as far as you fell comfortable with,
then
> bolt it in place and go for it. One thing to keep in mind (ask me how I
> know this) is after you mount the rollbar and you mount the canopy bow.
> Check the dimension for the canopy mount rails but remember that the
canopy
> frame has to line up with the rollbar or the will not fit properly when
you
> go to install it. Just soemthing to keep in mind that is not in the
manual.
>
> Mike Robertson
> RV-8A
> Painting..........FINALLY!!!
>
>
> >From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: RV-List: rv-8 canopy bow
> >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 17:34:22 -0500
> >
> >
> >A friend of mine who is not on the list is building an RV-8 and was
telling
> >me about a recent problem he encountered. Thought I would see of any of
> >you
> >8'ers have had the same experience and worked out a solution.
> >
> >His canopy bow is 7/16" narrower than the mounting position on the
> >fuselage.
> >He is considering pulling the fuselage sides together an equal amount to
> >make it fit. Comments?
> >
> >Jerry Calvert
> >Edmond Ok -6 fuse
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel stop on RV6a |
In a message dated 5/23/00 7:20:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
kempthornes(at)home.com writes:
<< Do the ears on the nosewheel stop go behind or ahead of the gear leg?
Plans
show (inadequately!) ears in front but I have been told the ears go behind.
>>
Hal-
Look closely at the side view and you can see that the stop extends farther
forward of the gear than aft of it. Further, since the allen head screws are
behind the gear pivot point you get more travel lock to lock if the stop is
in front.
If you expect to be able to stop the left main and pivot about it, the nose
wheel must be free to castor in an arc drawn from the nose gear pivot to the
right main about the left main. Think about the geometry and you will
understand.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel stop on RV6a |
In a message dated 5/23/00 8:17:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
TNGUYEN(at)oss.oceaneering.com writes:
<< I have my set behind the gear leg.
T.Nguyen
RV-6A
N747TN reserved
>>> "kempthornes" 05/23/00 08:48AM >>>
Do the ears on the nosewheel stop go behind or ahead of the gear leg? Plans
show (inadequately!) ears in front but I have been told the ears go behind.
>>
The stop ears belong in front.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vince Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
Does anyone know if there is a step kit for the RV-8A like the one on the 6A's?
Vince
RV-8A Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Placement on RV-4 |
Mine is on the left rear baffle.
O-320-E2G 150hp RV-4
Mike
>___________________________________________________________________________
_____
>From: Clay Smith <clayfly(at)libertybay.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Oil Cooler Placement on RV-4
>
>
>Hi Listers,
>Has anyone been able to place their oil cooler on the baffle of an O-320
powered, fixed
>pitched prop, RV-4? If so, did you place it on the front/left, rear/left,
or rear/right baffle?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X
>Indiana
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Hicks <EdHicks(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8/8A QB notice posted on Van's website |
Hi Listers,
Further to Gary Zilik's post, the notice is applicable to -8 Quickbuilders
too.
>>For you 8(A) QB builders there is an important notice on the opening
page of Van's Website. I have included the URL below<<
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv8_%20letter.htm
I've copied it in this e-mail below.
Ed Hicks.
RV-6QB 60435
May 19, 2000
Dear RV-8/8A QuickBuilder:
When RV-8/8A QB wings are delivered, the tanks are secured for (shipping
purposes
ONLY) by a few screws through the tank skin and several bolts through the
Z-brackets on
the back of the tank. It is expected that the builder will install the rest
of these critical
fasteners before the airplane is inspected or flown.
We are concerned that RV-8/8A QuickBuilders may not be installing or
tightening the
AN3-3A bolts through the Z-brackets as shown on DWG 16, Sections C-C and
D-D.
These bolts are reached through the access holes in the bottom of the wing.
THE CORRECT INSTALLATION OF THESE BOLTS IS ESSENTIAL TO FLIGHT SAFETY.
Please check to see that correct type and number of bolts are installed and
that they are
tightened to the correct 20-25 inch-pounds.
Thank you for your prompt attention.
Vans Aircraft, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <rv8abuild(at)dellnet.com> |
----- Original Message -----
From: Vince Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 8:11 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-8A Step
>
> Does anyone know if there is a step kit for the RV-8A like the one on the
6A's?
>
> Vince
> RV-8A Wings
>
Yes, there is.
Jerry Carter
RV-8A Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas Nguyen" <TNGUYEN(at)oss.oceaneering.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel stop on RV6a |
I stand corrected. I went home last night and checked my nose wheel setup, the
wheel stop goes in front of the nose wheel.
I apology for send out wrong info....Must be getting old ..:>).
T.Nguyen
RV-6A
N747TN
>>> "Ed Anderson" 05/23/00 03:33PM >>>
Interesting, I interperted the plans as and set mine in front.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A Rotary Powered
Matthews NC
> Hal,
>
> I have my set behind the gear leg.
>
> T.Nguyen
> RV-6A
> N747TN reserved
>
> >>> "kempthornes" 05/23/00 08:48AM >>>
>
> Do the ears on the nosewheel stop go behind or ahead of the gear leg?
Plans
> show (inadequately!) ears in front but I have been told the ears go
behind.
>
> (there needs to be a section thru the leg just above the stop so it is
> clear)
>
> Hal Kempthorne
> RV6a N7HK
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I have seen several RV-4 where the builder has replaced the top of the role
bar with a curved segment. I like the looks of this modification, but more
important, I would like a bit more clearance to the top of the canopy. Does
anyone know if this curved piece is available, or somewhere where someone
can get a piece of tube curved in this manner? Also, does anyone know the
wall thickness of the role bar? Thanks for any info.
Ray Grenier
Panel and electrics
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8A cabin heat |
On a small sub panel just below the permanent panel bulkhead on the
right side. About 1" X 5".
mailsorter-101-8.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/ms.dwm.v7+dul2)
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 23:34:58 -0500
Subject: RV-List: RV-8A cabin heat
To all you 8Aers out there. Where in the heck did you put the knob for your
cabin heat???
I'm not lucky enough to have those cool landing gear towers to put all my push
/
pull knobs and there is no more room on my panel ( of course ).
I'm desperate here!
Thx,
- Jim Andrews
Austin, Texas
RV-8AQ ( Fuse & Finish )
N89JA ( reserved )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Finished Fuel Tank Hole Finding |
But some of the nutplates would be on the aft portion of the spar underneath
the wing top and bottom skins. These are for the rearmost set of tank
screws. How did you back drill that portion?
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com [mailto:RobHickman(at)aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 5:06 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Finished Fuel Tank Hole Finding
I had to remake one of the fuel tanks for my RV-4, the first
one had a slight
twist.
This is the way I found the holes:
With the tank off I duct taped a thin piece of Aluminum to
the wing skin that
over lapped the tank holes. I then back drilled with #41
through the
existing nut plate and through the piece of Aluminum. I
then Slid the new
tank on under the overlapping piece and drilled through the
holes into the
new tank.
Rob Hickman
N401RH (42 Hours)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ultimate ventilator |
The eyeball vent is actually in line with my butt, about 4 inches to the rear
and just off the floor on the side wall. Its a easy reach directly down--I just
drop my hand , about parallel to by back bone and the eyeball vent is just off
the floor. The NACA scoop in on the wing bottom as per Vans plans and a short 12
inch piece of SCAT hooks the vent to the eyeball vent. ( I forgot that I could
not come up with a easy way to the SCAT over the spar too, much less cut my
canopy skirts.) FWIW the injected molded canopy vents (inverted NACA scoops)
were really poorley made and looked cheesy. I really don't think there is right
way or wrong way........I was faced with the routing problem & such...so I
thought I would try the wing method. I flew a RV-8 with the vent and I liked it.
I had the blast on me directly and also shooting straight up where the air
circulated around the top of the canopy. That seemed the best. Cool fresh air
around your head.........
willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil on 05/23/2000 04:51:11 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: ultimate ventilator
>
> I used Vans kits and mounted the eyeballs (air outlets) down on the very
>bottom of the side skins almost on the floor right between the pilot &
>passanger(RV-4) on the right & left side. As pilot I can reach down and
>aft and
>adjust both vents, likewise my passanger can lean forward and down and adjust
>both vents.
So you didnt go over the spar with Scat tubing and the eyeball vent is
actually beside your thigh (and your passengers foot)? I'd like to hear
from someone who is flying with this type of configuration to know how
effective it is before I committed to it.
I too spent a lot of time on my first set of canopy skirts. But after I
trashed them the second set came out a lot better and went a lot quicker
too. :-)
Mike Wills
RV4 engine stuff (Mazda 13B)
willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
I hate to reply with hearsay but I heard that the Bakersfield bunch make
those.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: GRENIER(at)aol.com [mailto:GRENIER(at)aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 6:43 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Role bar
I have seen several RV-4 where the builder has replaced the
top of the role
bar with a curved segment. I like the looks of this
modification, but more
important, I would like a bit more clearance to the top of
the canopy. Does
anyone know if this curved piece is available, or somewhere
where someone
can get a piece of tube curved in this manner? Also, does
anyone know the
wall thickness of the role bar? Thanks for any info.
Ray Grenier
Panel and electrics
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Placement on RV-4 |
More data on my prior rather turse post...RV-4 , 160 hp, O320-B2C, conical
mount,Sensenich metal f/p, carburator...Oil coller plate fabricated on left top
area of baffle and anchors to the engine. I used a scrap .062 piece of alum. as
the rear baffle and made standoff/anchors to mount to the engine case. I could
lift the engine with this...a bit of a overkill but looks slick & weighs next to
nothing..
jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com on 05/24/2000 01:11:51 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Cooler Placement on RV-4
Mine is on the left rear baffle.
O-320-E2G 150hp RV-4
Mike
>___________________________________________________________________________
_____
>From: Clay Smith <clayfly(at)libertybay.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Oil Cooler Placement on RV-4
>
>
>Hi Listers,
>Has anyone been able to place their oil cooler on the baffle of an O-320
powered, fixed
>pitched prop, RV-4? If so, did you place it on the front/left, rear/left,
or rear/right baffle?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X
>Indiana
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Yes, step is available and it works real well.
hilljw(at)aol.com
8a 75 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Painting.......FINALLY!! |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
Mike:
I am fitting the cowl. What did you use for a filler & prime for the
fiberglass?
I am planning on PPG base coat-clear coat & of couse there primer on the
aluminum.
You are going so fast it is depressing to the rest of use.
Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
**********************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oil Cooler Placement on RV-4 |
Oil cooler on the baffles is nice and compact, but design it for severe
vibration/movement (fatigue cracking of supports). The plane I removed my
engine from was arranged this way and the baffles and oil cooler flanges
were cracked badly. That's why I chose to mount mine on the firewall and
route SCAT tubing to it from the back of the baffles.
...just my 2 cents.
Bryan Jones
-8 Test Flight Soon!
Pearland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lothar klingmuller" <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel Prssure Gauge Resulution |
Flying Listers!
I can't decide what fuel pressuse gauge to install. Would like to use the
the 1 1/4 " UMA wet gauge for small size, and accuracy. But I also would
like to eliminate the wet line into the cockpit but find that most "dry"
fuel pressure gauges(2 1/4") using a sensor/tranducer are calibrated from 0
to 15 psi or even 0 to 30 psi. Apparently these larger "dry" gauges lack
the resolution to see a slight raise in fuel pressure when the electric fuel
pump is turned on.
My question to you flying RVATORS: What fuel gauges are you using and what
resolution do you see on the gauge??
Thanks for your input,
Lothar, final trimming of the canopy||6a-tipup
My question now is there a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting.......FINALLY!! |
Don,
On the cowling and the canopy fairing area I used a combination of stuff for
filler. I initially used West System Epoxy Resin with their 410 light
weight filler added to get build up and fill. Then I used a quick set
polyester glazing putty for final fill and pin holes. I intermittently
sprayed Sherwin Williams self-etching primer to help find all the pin holes.
As a final primer coat I sprayed PPG two part primer then wet sanded. We
are using Alumi-grip epoxy for the paint.
For the rest of the fuselage we sprayed Sherwin Williams self etching primer
first and wet sanded then shot the PPG two part primer followed by another
wet sand. Before we shot the paint we applied an acrylic adhesion
accelerator for PPG. We finished the upper cowling and the canopy skirt
yesterday afternoon and they have come out surprisingly nice. The paint
flowed extremely well. The fuselage has three colors on it so will take a
few more days to get everything done.
Thanks for the compliment on going fast but it hasn't been that fast. We
got the QB kit in August and I have about 900 hours into it already. If you
break that out I think that is close to 4 hours a day taking into
consideration that I took the month of March off. I have at least another
100 hours to go to get it done. If I don't run into any more problems it
might fly before I head for Arlington but I'm not holding my breath. At
this point I figure that it will be ready when its ready.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
Watching it change before my eyes
>From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Painting.......FINALLY!!
>Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:15:49 -0500
>
>
>Mike:
>
>I am fitting the cowl. What did you use for a filler & prime for the
>fiberglass?
>I am planning on PPG base coat-clear coat & of couse there primer on the
>aluminum.
>
>You are going so fast it is depressing to the rest of use.
>
>Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
>**********************************************
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Edge distance (Newbe question) |
In a message dated 5/23/00 1:00:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
BarstadA(at)bis.adp.com writes:
<< from the center of the hole, not the edge of the rivet head. Is this
right? >>
Yes
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
(Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id
for" ;
Wed,
24 May 2000 14:47:01.-0400(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Painting.......FINALLY!! |
Mike,
Being where you are in under a year deserves a BIG pat on the back. You must
want to go flying or something. I have not personally seen a QB finished in
under a year so well done.
Quick question about your paint. I'm dead set on using Sherwin Williams paint.
Which type are you using?(sunfire, acryglo etc.)
You said you have three colors. How did you guys add the secondary colors? Did
you paint the whole thing white then paint over them or did you butt the lines
against each other?
Also, are you having to scuff sand before you put on the secondary coat. If not
how long are you waiting before you mask and paint the secondary color.
Sorry to barrage you with questions but I'm just foaming at the mouth to start
painting mine. I love playing with paint.
Thanks in advance
Eric Henson
S. Fla
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
I have studied the archives & think I can fit the new S cowl.
After I fit the side hinges, How do I back up the drill with both cowls
on for alignment?
Can I do it on the ground with them together or do the top half, then the
bottom???
Also , I don't like the two options of securing the side pins. Has anyone
put an eye inside to secure it.
Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
**********************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Starter ring gear |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
I have an 0-320-D3G. Didn't get the starter ring gear, so I bought one
from Bobby's Engines.
I have a 76628 part number on the support. Bobby indicated it is 149
teeth & will work.
My PC-203-2 parts book calls for a 74414.
Based on the parts data.
74414 is a 12/14 pitch, & 3.25:1 alternator drive.
76628 is a 12/14 pitch & 1.91:1 drive.
What is the 12/14 referring too?
Is the ratio just the pulley diameter so the alternator can run at
different speeds?
If I use the 1.91 in lieu of the 3.25, will the alternator be slow or
faster than normal?
Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
**********************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Hatwell <RV8OR(at)overvne.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Jon Johansens Flight |
Listers
What is the web address to view Jon's flight
Thanks
RV8 wiring new workshop
--
Rob Hatwell
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Starter ring gear |
Mark Landrol sells a larger alternator pulley so you have some more options on
what speed you want your alternator to run at. I am running the 144 tooth ring
(easily replaceable) with the smaller starter ring pulley ( casting ) driving
one of marks larger alternator pulleys. Net result is the slowest possible
combination (of the mix) and have no trouble with alternator output. My thought
was to spin the alternator at the slowest speed...being a car unit I knew it
wasn't mass ballanced and the bearings (maybe) were not of the highest
qualitity,( the brushes & lub. oil were of car qualitity also.) From what I've
seen the Honda's are the best car qualitity and my Nippon Denso is a close
second and still working after 400 or so hrs....
dons6a(at)juno.com on 05/24/2000 03:33:32 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Starter ring gear
I have an 0-320-D3G. Didn't get the starter ring gear, so I bought one
from Bobby's Engines.
I have a 76628 part number on the support. Bobby indicated it is 149
teeth & will work.
My PC-203-2 parts book calls for a 74414.
Based on the parts data.
74414 is a 12/14 pitch, & 3.25:1 alternator drive.
76628 is a 12/14 pitch & 1.91:1 drive.
What is the 12/14 referring too?
Is the ratio just the pulley diameter so the alternator can run at
different speeds?
If I use the 1.91 in lieu of the 3.25, will the alternator be slow or
faster than normal?
Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
**********************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Starter ring gear |
speaking of starter ring gears, why is there 2 types, what are the advantages
and disadvantages of the 2, i need to know soon as i may purchase an engine
tommorrow.
thanks in advance
scott
tampa
rv6a tipper
N015EY RESERVED
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gunn <ggunn(at)mail.semy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jon Johansens Flight |
Here it is:
http://jonjohanson.on.net/index.html
> Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 21:20:47 +0100
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> From: Rob Hatwell <RV8OR(at)overvne.demon.co.uk>
> Subject: RV-List: Jon Johansens Flight
>
>
> Listers
>
> What is the web address to view Jon's flight
>
> Thanks
> RV8 wiring new workshop
> --
> Rob Hatwell
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Jon Johansens Flight |
> Listers
>
> What is the web address to view Jon's flight
http://www.jonjohanson.on.net/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cowling fit- 6a |
The following worked well for me -- longitudinal pins go in with fingertip
force.
1) Incline hinge per plans/RVAtor for "zipper effect" -- it does work!
2) Drill lower longitudinal hinges to cowl, R&L sides
3) Insert hinge wires and upper hinges and mount upper cowl half -- use duct
tape to secure cowl halves together
4) Start at front and back up drill with 1x2 pushed into cowl through
inlets -- this gets you about 12 inches along the way
5) Use a new bit, Bolube and 3400 RPM drill -- the new bit, Bolube and high
speed reduce the force required to make the hole -- very important for next
steps.
6) If you use 5) you will find that the last cleco (1 1/4 away or so) will
hold things quite well as long as you let the speed and sharp drill do the
work -- don't lean on the drill! No back up required.
7) After drilling, bed the hinges per my earlier messages and use soft
aluminum rivets-- search on Persyk in archives for a detailed description.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit -- my cowl goes on/off easily!
Hampshire, IL C38
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 2:45 PM
Subject: RV-List: cowling fit- 6a
>
>I have studied the archives & think I can fit the new S cowl.
>
>After I fit the side hinges, How do I back up the drill with both cowls
>on for alignment?
>Can I do it on the ground with them together or do the top half, then the
>bottom???
>Also , I don't like the two options of securing the side pins. Has anyone
>put an eye inside to secure it.
>Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
>**********************************************
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter ring gear |
The alternator on my 1986 Honda is a Nippon Denso
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: <pcondon(at)csc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Starter ring gear
>
>
> Mark Landrol sells a larger alternator pulley so you have some more
options on
> what speed you want your alternator to run at. I am running the 144 tooth
ring
> (easily replaceable) with the smaller starter ring pulley ( casting )
driving
> one of marks larger alternator pulleys. Net result is the slowest possible
> combination (of the mix) and have no trouble with alternator output. My
thought
> was to spin the alternator at the slowest speed...being a car unit I knew
it
> wasn't mass ballanced and the bearings (maybe) were not of the highest
> qualitity,( the brushes & lub. oil were of car qualitity also.) From what
I've
> seen the Honda's are the best car qualitity and my Nippon Denso is a close
> second and still working after 400 or so hrs....
>
>
> dons6a(at)juno.com on 05/24/2000 03:33:32 PM
>
> Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Subject: RV-List: Starter ring gear
>
>
> I have an 0-320-D3G. Didn't get the starter ring gear, so I bought one
> from Bobby's Engines.
>
> I have a 76628 part number on the support. Bobby indicated it is 149
> teeth & will work.
> My PC-203-2 parts book calls for a 74414.
>
> Based on the parts data.
> 74414 is a 12/14 pitch, & 3.25:1 alternator drive.
> 76628 is a 12/14 pitch & 1.91:1 drive.
>
> What is the 12/14 referring too?
> Is the ratio just the pulley diameter so the alternator can run at
> different speeds?
> If I use the 1.91 in lieu of the 3.25, will the alternator be slow or
> faster than normal?
>
> Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
> **********************************************
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich <houndsfour(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Jon Johansens Flight |
Hi Rob,
Try jonjohanson.on.net
Rich
Rob Hatwell wrote:
>
> Listers
>
> What is the web address to view Jon's flight
>
> Thanks
> RV8 wiring new workshop
> --
> Rob Hatwell
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John D. Heath" <johndheath(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Prssure Gauge Resulution |
"AUTOMETER" makes a device that is simply a diaphragm that can be mounted
outside the cockpit. Fuel pressure, line from where ever you choose, goes to
one
side of the metal diaphragm. From the diaphragm to the gauge, another line
is filled
with automotive Antifreeze or the nonflammable liquid of your choice. Keeps
fuel
out of cockpit. Try your local Speed Shop or http://www.autometer.com .
Doesn't really answer your questions but, adds to your options and
EVERYONE
is going to ask, "What's that ?".
JDH
----- Original Message -----
From: "lothar klingmuller" <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 1:05 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Prssure Gauge Resulution
>
> Flying Listers!
> I can't decide what fuel pressuse gauge to install. Would like to use the
> the 1 1/4 " UMA wet gauge for small size, and accuracy. But I also
would
> like to eliminate the wet line into the cockpit...........
________________________________________________________________________________
>>you'll need to stretch it about a foot wider,
A FOOT?? Oh, yea - we're talking man-units!! ;) IMHO, I'd start with 3 or
4 inches stretch. Start easy... and see where it ends up.
Bryan Jones
-8 Ready for Test Flight
Pearland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Starter Relay |
Norman Hunger wrote:
>
> Where are the RV6A guys mounting the starter and battery relays?
To the firewall. The starter relay on the front left side, the battery
relay on the rear right side.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank & Marilyn Hutchins <rvflyers(at)frontier.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Any second thoughts (too long) |
How do you feel about getting in your car and driving to the airport? Geeezz
menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com wrote:
>
>
> >>But, I would not be who I am if I did not
> >>challenge death on a regular basis. You never really appreciate life
> until
> >>you have looked death in the eye and won!
>
> REALLY? I must be missing something. I have a great appreciation for life,
> which is one of the reasons I don't challenge death on a regular basis (or
> ever if I can help it). I think part of my appreciation for life comes
> from mourning the loss of those who have looked death in the eye...and
> lost. I hope they found the fulfillment they craved because the price they
> paid for it was the ultimate, that of their life.
>
> >>And I figure you challenge death every day and every time you fly, either
> in
> >>your own plane or a commercial airliner.
>
> Yes there are risks, no doubt about it...but IMHO I don't consider flying
> (especially commercial) to be a death-defying experience. You can fly your
> RV in such a manner if you choose, but it is entirely unnecessary.
>
> No flame intended, just a different view of life and our attitudes toward
> it.
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, IA
> RV-8A wings
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank & Marilyn Hutchins <rvflyers(at)frontier.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for a ride. |
Don't know if you're interested in going to Porterville, but, Travis Bierman
(559-784-8749) has an RV-6 and Don Swenson (784-5703) has a 6A.
Mike wrote:
>
> I was wondering if there is anyone in the So. Cal. area with an RV-6A (or 6)
> that could give a "demo" flight? I have the horizontal to a Glasair but due
> to there current problems I am thinking about changing to an RV-6A or 9A.
> But first I would like to see if I like flying in one. I live in Orange
> county. I could buy you lunch at SBA or something.
>
> Mike Divan
> mdivan(at)home.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JhnstnIII(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Rusty water in compressor |
Listers--Is it normal to drain a couple of tablespoons of rusty water from
one's compressor after a day of building? It's a brand new compressor
(Campbell Hausfeld, 6 HP, 30 gal., dry type), so I'm surprised to see the
rust. Don't they paint the insides of these tanks with epoxy? Is this a
corrosion problem I should worry about? LeRoy Johnston, Ohio, riveting stab
skins soon.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Starter Relay |
In a message dated 5/24/00 9:48:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com writes:
<< The starter relay on the front left side, the battery
relay on the rear right side. >>
I mounted by contactors(solenoids, relays or whatever you wish to call them)
back to back on the firewall using common bolts. Mine are on the port side,
but if I were doing it today, they would be mounted on the starboard side.
Not a biggie on which side you put them if your battery is in the middle.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rudder skin holes |
| From: | "Robert Dickson" <bubba(at)coastalnet.com> |
I've drilled the rudder skin to the skeleton, but there are 5 holes at the
very top of the skin that I'm not sure what to do with. I think they have to
do with the fiberglass tip, but I can't find any specific call outs for
these holes. Can someone who's been there/done that please advise me?
Thanks.
Robert Dickson
Fayetteville NC
RV-6A emp, QB about to be shipped
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Stribling's" <bbattery(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rusty water in compressor |
Dont worry about the water, if it is humid water in the compressor is
normal, any time you compress air water is trapped and when it expands like
going out of the compressor it gets cold and will let the water turn back to
liquid. put a water trap in line and not at the compressor I put mine on the
other side of the garage to let the air cool down be for it gets to the
water trap. that is why you need to oil tools daily.
And no the tanks are not painted inside but it would take a long time to
rust through.
Ken 6a fuse- about ready to flip after this weekend
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rusty water in compressor |
> Listers--Is it normal to drain a couple of tablespoons of rusty water
from
> one's compressor after a day of building?
Yes, but the good news is that they usually leak before they blow up.
Alex Peterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rusty water in compressor |
In a message dated 5/24/00 10:46:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
JhnstnIII(at)aol.com writes:
<< Listers--Is it normal to drain a couple of tablespoons of rusty water from
one's compressor after a day of building? It's a brand new compressor
(Campbell Hausfeld, 6 HP, 30 gal., dry type), so I'm surprised to see the
rust. Don't they paint the insides of these tanks with epoxy? Is this a
corrosion problem I should worry about? >>
1) Yes, they all rust.
2) It is hard to paint the inside of a sealed tank (you could slosh it,
tho....), so epoxy is unlikely.
3) Don't worry about it. Compressors don't last forever, but they do last a
long time.
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Haan <bhaan(at)easystreet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring for Landing & Nav lites etc... |
Tom,
We are completing the design of a Controller for the leading edge taxi and
landing lights. A prototype has been running for about 4 weeks. The final
printed circuit board is being designed this week.
This device will: 1. Simplify wiring. See discussion below. 2. Make your
plane more visible and safer by Wig Waging or Blinking the leading edge
lights. 3. Reduce alternator load by 50% over turning on the leading edge
lights for improved day time visibility. 4. Low current switches can be
used because the high current loads for the bulbs are not switched by the
switches on the panel. The leading edge lights are switched by solid state
devices inside the LELC. Power flows from the bus through the fuse or CB,
through the LELC to the bulb and then to ground either by the airframe or
by a return ground wire. The panel switches command the Leading Edge Lights
Controller, LELC, by connecting different combinations of 3 control pins to
ground using a very low current and therefore 22 AWG wire. 5. The LELC can
light one of 2 LEDs, left or right, when a filament has failed. 6. The LELC
also has a filament warmer which extends the life of the bulbs. You can
optionally disable this warmer.
Re simplified wiring:-
All the wires connected to the Leading Edge Lights Controller, LELC, are
connected to the circuit board when it is assembled. The circuit board and
wires are potted inside a heat sink. They are designed to be long enough to
reach their normal connection point for all RVs; no extra splices and no
additional points of failure. For example, the 14 AWG wire supplying +12
volts to the bulbs is long enough to reach the wing fuselage intersection
where it connects to the 14 AWG wire in the wing via barrier strips or
knife edge terminals. Three 22 AWG control wires long enough to reach any
point on the panel connect to your choice of one or more switches. When
these switches are turned on they complete a connection to ground. Two 22
AWG wires that can be connected to LEDs and resistors and then to ground
that are switched on by the LELC when a filament fails. Two 14 AWG wires
are connect to 2 fuses or 2 circuit breakers on the master bus. This
provides redundancy. If a fuse blows or a wire opens, only one of the
leading edge lights fails and you still have the second to land by. There
is a ground wire. The total number of wires is 10. This can optionally
be reduced to only 6 if the filament failure LEDs and the redundant fuses
or CBs are not used.
Wiring will be easy, fast, and reliable. The LELC can be mounted behind
the panel. The LELC mounts on 2 inches by 4 inches and is 2 inches
tall. Weight is very small.
Price - about $60. Available late June.
Bob
>
>
>I am currently planning the wiring that goes into the wing of my RV-8.
>This has raised the question of whether how to handle GROUND return
>wiring. Could make a ground connection to the nearest convenient point
>close to each lite and let the wing/fuselage provide the GROUND return.
>Or could run a separate GROUND wire all the way back to the battery.
Bob Haan
http://easystreet.com/~bhaan/
bhaan(at)easystreet.com
Portland, OR
RV6A 24461 Wiring the panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder skin holes |
Those are for the fiberglass tip as you suspected.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
Painting now
>From: "Robert Dickson" <bubba(at)coastalnet.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv list
>Subject: RV-List: rudder skin holes
>Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:53:55 -0400
>
>
>I've drilled the rudder skin to the skeleton, but there are 5 holes at the
>very top of the skin that I'm not sure what to do with. I think they have
>to
>do with the fiberglass tip, but I can't find any specific call outs for
>these holes. Can someone who's been there/done that please advise me?
>Thanks.
>
>Robert Dickson
>Fayetteville NC
>RV-6A emp, QB about to be shipped
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting.......FINALLY!! |
Thanks for the kind words. It has been quick in time but I have had the
luxury of working about 4 hours per day. Long story as to why I have that
much time and I won't bore you with details.
I used the Sherwin Williams self-etching primer for my inital coats and for
sanding coats over filler as it is relatively in-expensive and drys quick.
Before the final paint we shot the PPG two part primer because it sands out
excellent and fills small pin holes just as excellently.
The outside color coats are Alumi-Grip Epoxy paints. However, I did use the
Sherwin Williams Sunfire Acrylic Urethane paint with a flattening agent
added for the interior.
On the top coats we did scuff the paint with about 360 Wet sand paper as we
waited 24 hours between coats. Had to in order to be able to tape and paper
off those areas we did not want paint to get to.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
Paint touch up time and then assembly for good.
>Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id
> for
>
>
>Mike,
>
>Being where you are in under a year deserves a BIG pat on the back. You
>must
>want to go flying or something. I have not personally seen a QB finished in
>under a year so well done.
>
>Quick question about your paint. I'm dead set on using Sherwin Williams
>paint.
>Which type are you using?(sunfire, acryglo etc.)
>
>You said you have three colors. How did you guys add the secondary colors?
>Did
>you paint the whole thing white then paint over them or did you butt the
>lines
>against each other?
>
>Also, are you having to scuff sand before you put on the secondary coat. If
>not
>how long are you waiting before you mask and paint the secondary color.
>
>Sorry to barrage you with questions but I'm just foaming at the mouth to
>start
>painting mine. I love playing with paint.
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Eric Henson
>S. Fla
>Fuselage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rusty water in compressor |
Never ever tie down the safety valve. Never set it for more than the
manufacturers rating. Turn it off when done. Check it frequently, and sump
at the end of the day instead of at the beginning. I've got pictures of a
tank that blew. After publishing it, I had 4 people tell me about their
explosions, holes blown in roof, overhead door destroyed, and near misses
with death.
A hydro-check once in a while would be a good thing.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rusty water in compressor
>
>
> > Listers--Is it normal to drain a couple of tablespoons of rusty water
> from
> > one's compressor after a day of building?
>
>
> Yes, but the good news is that they usually leak before they blow up.
>
> Alex Peterson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Starter ring gear/pulley options |
There are (at least) two ring castings for the lycomming (the casting is about
the size of a dinner plate and dished shaped). The difference is the casted-in
pulley diameter, The other variable in the mix is the steel tooth ring that is
fitted (interference) onto the casting ...one being 144 tooth the other being
122 tooth. It really makes no major difference which your engine has other than
the starter drive gear needs to match your tooth-ed ring. Starters come in 2
options 144 & 122 tooth........ My last post just mentioned a vendor who has a
inexpensive pulley for the alternator of slightly larger diameter that reduces
the rpm's of the starter a little ( 10 to 12 % if I recall) no mater what
casting you have on your ring gear......
ABAYMAN(at)aol.com on 05/24/2000 04:51:26 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Starter ring gear
speaking of starter ring gears, why is there 2 types, what are the advantages
and disadvantages of the 2, i need to know soon as i may purchase an engine
tommorrow.
thanks in advance
scott
tampa
rv6a tipper
N015EY RESERVED
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Gesele <tgesele(at)usa.net> |
| Subject: | Layout Of Firewall |
Listers,
I'm getting close to jigging up the Fuselage and want to layout as
many of the items which attach to the Firewall as possible prior to
jigging. I can use a completed -6a as a template which has a carburated
0320 up front but I'm building a -6 with a 0360 + airflow injector.
I'm a little concerned about possibly setting myself up for problems
with interfence due to the physical differences between the two setups.
If anyone has any insight on what differences exist, or any comments
on what I'm planning, I'd appreciate hearing about them...
Thanks,
Tom Gesele
RV-6 #25465 (Fueselage bulkheads)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming starter ring gear/pulley options |
>speaking of starter ring gears, why is there 2 types, what are the advantages
>and disadvantages of the 2, i need to know soon as i may purchase an engine
>tommorrow.
>>There are (at least) two ring castings for the lycomming (the casting is
about
>>the size of a dinner plate and dished shaped). The difference is the
casted-in
>>pulley diameter, The other variable in the mix is the steel tooth ring
that is
>>fitted (interference) onto the casting ...one being 144 tooth the other
being
>>122 tooth. It really makes no major difference which your engine has
other than
>>the starter drive gear needs to match your tooth-ed ring. Starters come in 2
>>options 144 & 122 tooth
Early 60's everything 122 teeth. 149 tooth gears came along
later on some engines to get a better cranking ratio.
Current production O-235 and IO-720 have 122 tooth gears
stock. All other engines leave factory with 149 tooth
gears.
Pinion gear on all starters have 9 teeth.
When this info was repeated to the Lycoming rep at OSH last
year, the rep was unaware of the 122 tooth gear on the
larger engine. He went to the parts catalog for the
IO-720 and confirmed Bill's observation.
B&C recommends that every engine be fitted with 122 tooth
ring gear. The tooth engagement is better and the system
runs smoother. Be aware of the fact that either casting
can be fitted with any ring gear . . . the mating diameters
are the same. If you put a 122 tooth gear on a casting
designed for 149 tooth, the gear moves 0.060" too close
to the starter.
>>........ My last post just mentioned a vendor who has a
>>inexpensive pulley for the alternator of slightly larger diameter that
reduces
>>the rpm's of the starter a little ( 10 to 12 % if I recall) no mater what
>>casting you have on your ring gear......
B&C has offered the small pulley on their ND alternators since
day one. IF the rotor is balanced well then the positives
for running the alternator faster outweigh the negatives.
You get better output from the alternator at ground operating
RPMs and better cowl clearances. The exemplary demonstrated
service life of these alternators shows there are no life
issues to be addressed by running the alternator slower.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
Thanks Dennis:
I got the hinge (firewall) halfes on last nite. After IDing all of the
parts , I still tryed to put the eye down on the bottom. Looked like drag
to me , so I started over & drilled them 'in.'
I got all mixed up on the pins. The curves at the top would not take
their .125 pins.
I was able to get the "xtra" .090 steel pins to work. I think that is
what we are post-to use.
On the 2 sides & the bottom I used the pins that came with the .125
hinges. I have to do some filing on the corners of the eyes on the curved
ones & they will work. I have a 72" left that will do the sides & the
extruded piece for the nose area.
Now George O. came up 17.75 with a referance mark on each side. I can't
find that anywhere. I am going to get the Top cowl line on the side equal
from the top center & then work the bottom cowl to fit it.
Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com'
**********************************************
writes:
>
>
> The following worked well for me -- longitudinal pins go in with
> fingertip
> force.
> 1) Incline hinge per plans/RVAtor for "zipper effect" -- it does
> work!
> 2) Drill lower longitudinal hinges to cowl, R&L sides
> 3) Insert hinge wires and upper hinges and mount upper cowl half --
> use duct
> tape to secure cowl halves together
> 4) Start at front and back up drill with 1x2 pushed into cowl
> through
> inlets -- this gets you about 12 inches along the way
> 5) Use a new bit, Bolube and 3400 RPM drill -- the new bit, Bolube
> and high
> speed reduce the force required to make the hole -- very important
> for next
> steps.
> 6) If you use 5) you will find that the last cleco (1 1/4 away or
> so) will
> hold things quite well as long as you let the speed and sharp drill
> do the
> work -- don't lean on the drill! No back up required.
> 7) After drilling, bed the hinges per my earlier messages and use
> soft
> aluminum rivets-- search on Persyk in archives for a detailed
> description.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jim jewell" <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
| Subject: | transfering hole locations |
Hello listers,
Last night I emailed this response privately.
It might be of use to the list.
To transfer blind or hidden holes, a piece of clear plastic (thick Mylar or
thin Plexiglas) can be taped or (cleacoed if holes are available) to the
area over the structure that has the holes that need to be copied.
The clear "plastic" is firmly attached and indexed to the structure on one
edge only, then the positions of the holes to be copied are marked, drilled
(40 drill will do) or center punched into the plastic.
Then the new piece to be drilled can be slid under the clear plastic
pattern.
If care is taken to not allow the plastic to move and the index marks are
used
to check against movement,.the new piece or part when fitted to satisfaction
can then be marked for drilling, or drilled in place.
I hope this is of some use.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
I received the following from Micro-Air regarding their 2.25 inch round hole
transponder. Passing it along for interested parties.
God bless the Ozzies!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Nigel Andrews [mailto:N-andrews(at)microair.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 9:34 PM
Subject: Transponder
Dear Sir,
Yes we have nearly finished the design and are currently submitting the
paperwork to the FAA.
Hopefully around August / September, RRP at USD $1,200.00 - all the features
including altitude display.
Regards Nigel Andrews
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <mdivan(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for a ride. |
I have never been to Desert Center (flown over it)that might be a good
flight. What are you building?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Wndwlkr711(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for a ride.
I can't help with the ride for another few years but if you want to see a
work in progress, fly out to Desert Center and I'll show you a a set of
wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-List:extending strobe wires |
I'm placing a dual nav strobe light in the bottom of my rudder and need to
extend the strobe wires. Should I use three conductor shielded wire or just
appropriately sized single conductor? I'm concerned about strobe noise.
What type of signal is carried to the strobe? I'm not sure how they work can
someone enlighten me??
thanks
Steven DiNieri
capsteve(at)wzrd.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Layout Of Firewall |
Tom Gesele wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
> I'm getting close to jigging up the Fuselage and want to layout as
> many of the items which attach to the Firewall as possible prior to
> jigging. I can use a completed -6a as a template which has a carburated
> 0320 up front but I'm building a -6 with a 0360 + airflow injector.
>
> I'm a little concerned about possibly setting myself up for problems
> with interfence due to the physical differences between the two setups.
> If anyone has any insight on what differences exist, or any comments
> on what I'm planning, I'd appreciate hearing about them...
Tom, I suggest you wait until you hang the engine before you drill for
firewall components. You will still be able to reach the firewall as
necessary and be able to see exactly where everything needs to go.
Besides, you have a fuse to build..... :-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6 with exposed firewall......engine about ready to
reassemble)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Starter ring gear/pulley options |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
Thanks Phil:
I think you may be wrong on the 144. The starters are offered in 122 &
149.
My earlier question was about the Lycoming Parts book. They call out ring
gears for engines & referance 10/12 pitch, 12/14 pitch & the ratios of
1.91 & 3.25. I think the ratios are the 2 different pully sizes & the
pitch will be the number of teeth.
I been fitting cowls now, but when I get the ring gear back off, I am
going to do some measuring. There has got to be some reason for those
numbers.
Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
**********************************************
>
>
> There are (at least) two ring castings for the lycomming (the
> casting is about
> the size of a dinner plate and dished shaped). The difference is the
> casted-in
> pulley diameter, The other variable in the mix is the steel tooth
> ring that is
> fitted (interference) onto the casting ...one being 144 tooth the
> other being
> 122 tooth. It really makes no major difference which your engine
> has other than
> the starter drive gear needs to match your tooth-ed ring. Starters
> come in 2
> options 144 & 122 tooth........ My last post just mentioned a vendor
> who has a
> inexpensive pulley for the alternator of slightly larger diameter
> that reduces
> the rpm's of the starter a little ( 10 to 12 % if I recall) no mater
> what
> casting you have on your ring gear......
>
>
> ABAYMAN(at)aol.com on 05/24/2000 04:51:26 PM
tarter ring gear
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lycoming starter ring gear/pulley options |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
Phil wrote:
> >>There are (at least) two ring castings for the lycomming (the casting
is about
> >>the size of a dinner plate and dished shaped). The difference is the
> casted-in pulley diameter, The other variable in the mix is the steel
tooth
> ring that is fitted (interference) onto the casting It really makes
no major difference which your engine has other than the starter drive
gear needs to match your tooth-ed ring.
Bob wrote:
> Early 60's everything 122 teeth. 149 tooth gears came along
> later on some engines to get a better cranking ratio.
> Current production O-235 and IO-720 have 122 tooth gears
> stock. All other engines leave factory with 149 tooth
> gears. Pinion gear on all starters have 9 teeth.
> Bob . . .
> -------------------------------------------
*******
149/9= 16.555 does this mean the starter goes 16.5 revs to get the motor
to turn 1?
122/9= 13.555
now if i divide 149/122 I get 1.22. or 16.555/13.555 are the same.
So am I correct that the 122 turns the engine (22%) faster but the
starter has less power?
"Better cranking ratio"
In a normal airplane what is the pinon gear speed & the motor turning ?
Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
**********************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
This needs storing:
**********************
> << Where are the RV6A guys mounting the starter and battery relays?
>
> Norman
>
> Not that I did it this way, but if I was gonna do it again, I'd do it
like this...
>
> 1) Mount the master contactor on the firewall inside the cockpit,
> preferably
> on the left side.
>
> 2) Mount the starter contactor on the engine side of the firewall,
> on the
> left side.
>
> 3) Use a firewall pass through stud (it's insulated, don't worry)
> from Summit
> Racing (800-230-3939). It is p/n SUM-G1431. It has a machined brass
> post,
> and it comes with 5/16" brass nuts for each side. (There is an old
> Nuckolls/Mlfred thread on this if you wanna look in the archives).
>
> 4) Run the power from the master contactor to the firewall stud,
> then from
> the stud to your battery contactor. Also, hook the big wire from
> your
> alternator to the engine compartment side of the stud.
>
> This way, you won't have any firewall penetrations with big wires.
> You've
> eliminated a potential failure point (chafing of big wires), and
> have reduced
> the number of holes in your firewall. Also, you get rid of one or
> two of
> those clunky grommet/shield contraptions.
>
> Finally, if you're using a central ground point (maybe one of
> Electric Bob's
> units..), put it on the same side of the cockpit as your master
> relay. This
> will make routing of battery wires simpler, 'cause you won't have to
> knock
> holes in both sides of your battery box.
>
>
> Good luck,
>
> Kyle Boatright
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Grant <Tom.Grant(at)LaCodeWORKS.com> |
| Subject: | MicroAir products |
I too, asked about upcoming products from MicroAir, and got a bit more detailed
reply:
Yes we are currently nearing the end of our transponder design and hope to
have a preview unit at Oshkosh, then hopefully followed by a TSO. The new
unit is both a 2 1/4 inch and a 6 1/4 inch rack. 2 line display with
altitude and code, VFR hotkey, low standby current, 10 to 32 volts in, no
tube- all solid state.
RRP we hope around $1,200 USD.
A VOR / ILS radio is on the table for end of the year, we will be
investigating a GS indicator and radio in one, same as some other brands, it
really depends on the market.
Thanks for your enquire.
Regards Nigel Andrews, Director.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | More Fed Paperwork |
I'm afraid that I need more help fellas,
I heard from my inspector today. He called to say that he had received my
"chunk" of paperwork that was originally requested. This included the usual
notarized forms and applications. I thought he was calling me to schedule
my inspection. (Silly me. This is the Federal Government after all.)
He requested that I fax him a bunch of additional information like the type
certificate for my engine/prop combo, weight and balance section from the
Pilot's Operating Handbook, and (the one that has me stumped) demonstrated
compliance with all ADs on engine, prop, and accessories.
"Okay, I'll get that right over to you!" The first two weren't a problem,
but how do I demonstrate compliance with all applicable ADs?
I've spent the better part of the day searching the FAA, FedWorld, and other
(AOPA, etc) sites trying to find "all applicable ADs". I assume there is an
easier way to do this. I do know that my engine logbook from Aerosport
Power contains a list of ADs that were complied with, but the inspector said
that I need to prove compliance from the date of manufacture to today.
Now I have found that the FAA is bringing up a new web site this weekend.
Fedworld, and all the links from other sites to it, would not access FAA
data. The new FAA site (http://AFS6000.FAA.GOV) contains information on ADs
but I couldn't find an index for any year but 2000, and then for only
"large" engines, "large" propellers, and "large" airplanes. (Boy, I feel
bad for Boeing. Their index was about 30 pages long.) When I search on
Lycoming, I don't get a single hit. I'm pretty sure that that's not
correct.
How have others done this? Is there an easier way? I sure hope so or my
airplane is never going to get in the air. Airventure is drawing closer and
I had hoped to make it this year.
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6
"Copying, Faxing, and Feeding the Paperwork Monster"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O&V 360 |
DEAR LISTERS
what is an O&V 360 SERIES LYCOMING and how is it differant and what is an
engine code?
thanks
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinner(at)vcn.com> |
A friend asked me my thoughts on the value of installing a Laser ignition
system on his soon to be finished Piper Pacer as opposed to conventional
mags. From some of the things I've read on the list and elsewhere, my
personal bias would be to stick with conventional mags. I'd be interested
in your opinions, pro & con. This topic should be of interest to RVers, as
well.
I used a Jeff Rose mag replacement electronic ignition on my RV and was
very pleased. Of course, my Pacer friend is restricted to certified, "real
airplane" stuff. Too bad.
"Electric Bob", I hope you'll weigh in on this topic.
Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY (1995 RV6 sold after 4 years & 470 hrs) EAA
Tech Counselor # 3726
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O&V 360 |
>
> DEAR LISTERS
> what is an O&V 360 SERIES LYCOMING and how is it differant and what is an
> engine code?
>
>
The "0" as in O-360 designates that the engine is opposed cylinders as all
360's are.
The "V" as in VO-360 designates that the engine is built to be installed in a
vertical position (PTO side up) as is typical in helicopters.
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | More Fed Paperwork |
Randy -
I don't have all the answers to your questions, but I did just finish an
inspection this Tuesday.
Regarding the AD's... I don't believe you must comply with engine AD's when
then engine is mounted on an experimental. I didn't...
...did have and offered to show the TC on my prop/engine combo. He said
"that's OK", and didn't even look at it. I got the 25 hrs.
I would interpret "showing compliance" as being log book entries and
receipts for parts on AD specific work on the engine. But then again, I
really don't believe an engine can have an AD issued on it alone - I thought
the aircraft to which it was certified was issued the AD. But I'm really
don't have a good understanding of this subject.
I presented my weight and balance worksheet with not one question. What I
did get gigged on was not having a photograph (front and side view) of the
plane to give to the inspector. He said to mail them to him.
Sounds like you got one on the formal side of the book. But I still don't
believe the AD issue is legitimate. If you could ask how many experimental
he's certified/inspected without teeing him off, that might explain the
issue. Hopefully someone else can answer more clearly.
Good luck!
Bryan Jones
-8 Ready for Test Flight
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More Fed Paperwork |
Randy,
Best thing you could do is take your make, model, and S/N of the engine and
prop to an IA at your local airport. He will pull up a list of ADs for you.
Then complare that list against the logbooks and you will now if there are
any that have to get done.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
Painting
>From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
>Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 15:59:21 -0500
>
>
>I'm afraid that I need more help fellas,
>
>I heard from my inspector today. He called to say that he had received my
>"chunk" of paperwork that was originally requested. This included the
>usual
>notarized forms and applications. I thought he was calling me to schedule
>my inspection. (Silly me. This is the Federal Government after all.)
>
>He requested that I fax him a bunch of additional information like the type
>certificate for my engine/prop combo, weight and balance section from the
>Pilot's Operating Handbook, and (the one that has me stumped) demonstrated
>compliance with all ADs on engine, prop, and accessories.
>
>"Okay, I'll get that right over to you!" The first two weren't a problem,
>but how do I demonstrate compliance with all applicable ADs?
>
>I've spent the better part of the day searching the FAA, FedWorld, and
>other
>(AOPA, etc) sites trying to find "all applicable ADs". I assume there is
>an
>easier way to do this. I do know that my engine logbook from Aerosport
>Power contains a list of ADs that were complied with, but the inspector
>said
>that I need to prove compliance from the date of manufacture to today.
>
>Now I have found that the FAA is bringing up a new web site this weekend.
>Fedworld, and all the links from other sites to it, would not access FAA
>data. The new FAA site (http://AFS6000.FAA.GOV) contains information on
>ADs
>but I couldn't find an index for any year but 2000, and then for only
>"large" engines, "large" propellers, and "large" airplanes. (Boy, I feel
>bad for Boeing. Their index was about 30 pages long.) When I search on
>Lycoming, I don't get a single hit. I'm pretty sure that that's not
>correct.
>
>How have others done this? Is there an easier way? I sure hope so or my
>airplane is never going to get in the air. Airventure is drawing closer
>and
>I had hoped to make it this year.
>
>Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6
>"Copying, Faxing, and Feeding the Paperwork Monster"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O&V 360 |
Scott,
The "O" menas opposed as in cylinders on opposite sides of the crankcase.
And "V" means a vertical mounted engine. Those engines were used on the
Bell 47 "MASH" helicopters. The big difference is the case and the location
of the oil sump.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
Painting it up
>From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Lycoming O&V 360
>Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 16:14:26 EDT
>
>
>DEAR LISTERS
>what is an O&V 360 SERIES LYCOMING and how is it differant and what is an
>engine code?
>thanks
>scott
>tampa
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: More Fed Paperwork |
Once again... ADs do not apply to experimentals, PERIOD! Contact Earl
Lawrence at EAA Government Programs for advice and help. elawrence(at)eaa.org
He might produce an FAR number or a Fed statement that ADs are not
applicable on non-certificated airplanes. You can also call and talk to him
1-920-426-4800 and ask for Earl Lawrence during the day.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 3:59 PM
Subject: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
>
> I'm afraid that I need more help fellas,
>
> I heard from my inspector today. He called to say that he had received my
> "chunk" of paperwork that was originally requested. This included the
usual
> notarized forms and applications. I thought he was calling me to schedule
> my inspection. (Silly me. This is the Federal Government after all.)
>
> He requested that I fax him a bunch of additional information like the
type
> certificate for my engine/prop combo, weight and balance section from the
> Pilot's Operating Handbook, and (the one that has me stumped) demonstrated
> compliance with all ADs on engine, prop, and accessories.
>
> "Okay, I'll get that right over to you!" The first two weren't a problem,
> but how do I demonstrate compliance with all applicable ADs?
>
> I've spent the better part of the day searching the FAA, FedWorld, and
other
> (AOPA, etc) sites trying to find "all applicable ADs". I assume there is
an
> easier way to do this. I do know that my engine logbook from Aerosport
> Power contains a list of ADs that were complied with, but the inspector
said
> that I need to prove compliance from the date of manufacture to today.
>
> Now I have found that the FAA is bringing up a new web site this weekend.
> Fedworld, and all the links from other sites to it, would not access FAA
> data. The new FAA site (http://AFS6000.FAA.GOV) contains information on
ADs
> but I couldn't find an index for any year but 2000, and then for only
> "large" engines, "large" propellers, and "large" airplanes. (Boy, I feel
> bad for Boeing. Their index was about 30 pages long.) When I search on
> Lycoming, I don't get a single hit. I'm pretty sure that that's not
> correct.
>
> How have others done this? Is there an easier way? I sure hope so or my
> airplane is never going to get in the air. Airventure is drawing closer
and
> I had hoped to make it this year.
>
> Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6
> "Copying, Faxing, and Feeding the Paperwork Monster"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Hughes <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net> |
Just curious...
I'm dreaming of going to Oshkosh (I refuse to say 'Airve...') this year. The way
my
work schedule is, I won't be able to see if I have the time off in time to make
firm
plans, so I was wondering if it would be possible to roll into OSH and find some
sort
of lodging? I had thought that I would just camp out, but then a more sensible
minded pilot (Spence Matthews, RV-6 Denver) tried to describe what it would be
like
camping in 100 degree/100% humidity that they sometimes get. He mentioned that
there
are dorms, etc that would probably be available on a shorter notice than a hotel.
Keep in mind that I'm cheap.
Thanks,
Keith Hughes
RV-6 Tanks
Parker, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | More Fed Paperwork |
OK ....HUH....let me jump in here with a few (HAHA) words and maybe some
clarification. While it may seem unreasonable, during th einitial
certification the inspector can ask for the AD list "in the interest of
safety". I know that it is a catch-all phrase. Please hear me out a bit
before you flame me. Remember, this is the "INITIAL" inspection and the
inspector is signing his name to your logbook, airworthiness certificate,
and operating limitations. He is taking a lot of liability here and has the
right to make sure the aircraft is safe to his expectatiosn. You could push
the AD point with him and even go over his head to his supervisor. But the
bottom line is while he may be being a stickler is is also looking out for
your safety and his as*.
Believe me, I have had to pick up pieces, aircraft and human, from
accidents, and it isn't pretty. I always ask for a list of AD's but if the
builder makes a stink of it I let it go but I will get into the aspects of
safety with that person to the point he may have wished he got the AD list.
They aren't hard to get. Any A&P or IA out there can pull up a list in
minutes from their computer.
Now for the second point...mostly to Bryan, but all others of interest as
well. Airworthiness Directives can, and are, issued on ALL pieces of
equipment installed on aircraft. Off the top of my head, I can think of one
that is on an ignition switch mounted in some Cessnas. The AD are listed
usign the manufacturer's name, and not the aircraft. Again, go ask your
local, friendly A&P to show you a list. But be prepared to give him the
make, model, part number and/or serial number for every individual component
you have. It isn't that bad but you get the point.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
>From: "Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'rv-list(at)matronics.com'"
>Subject: RE: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
>Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 16:50:29 -0500
>
><bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
>
>Randy -
>
>I don't have all the answers to your questions, but I did just finish an
>inspection this Tuesday.
>
>Regarding the AD's... I don't believe you must comply with engine AD's
>when
>then engine is mounted on an experimental. I didn't...
>
>...did have and offered to show the TC on my prop/engine combo. He said
>"that's OK", and didn't even look at it. I got the 25 hrs.
>
>I would interpret "showing compliance" as being log book entries and
>receipts for parts on AD specific work on the engine. But then again, I
>really don't believe an engine can have an AD issued on it alone - I
>thought
>the aircraft to which it was certified was issued the AD. But I'm really
>don't have a good understanding of this subject.
>
>I presented my weight and balance worksheet with not one question. What I
>did get gigged on was not having a photograph (front and side view) of the
>plane to give to the inspector. He said to mail them to him.
>
>Sounds like you got one on the formal side of the book. But I still don't
>believe the AD issue is legitimate. If you could ask how many experimental
>he's certified/inspected without teeing him off, that might explain the
>issue. Hopefully someone else can answer more clearly.
>
>Good luck!
>
>Bryan Jones
>-8 Ready for Test Flight
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More Fed Paperwork |
Good Advice.
Mike Robertson
>From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: ,
>Subject: Re: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
>Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:19:05 -0500
>
>
>Once again... ADs do not apply to experimentals, PERIOD! Contact Earl
>Lawrence at EAA Government Programs for advice and help. elawrence(at)eaa.org
>He might produce an FAR number or a Fed statement that ADs are not
>applicable on non-certificated airplanes. You can also call and talk to him
>1-920-426-4800 and ask for Earl Lawrence during the day.
>
>Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
>(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 3:59 PM
>Subject: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
>
>
> >
> > I'm afraid that I need more help fellas,
> >
> > I heard from my inspector today. He called to say that he had received
>my
> > "chunk" of paperwork that was originally requested. This included the
>usual
> > notarized forms and applications. I thought he was calling me to
>schedule
> > my inspection. (Silly me. This is the Federal Government after all.)
> >
> > He requested that I fax him a bunch of additional information like the
>type
> > certificate for my engine/prop combo, weight and balance section from
>the
> > Pilot's Operating Handbook, and (the one that has me stumped)
>demonstrated
> > compliance with all ADs on engine, prop, and accessories.
> >
> > "Okay, I'll get that right over to you!" The first two weren't a
>problem,
> > but how do I demonstrate compliance with all applicable ADs?
> >
> > I've spent the better part of the day searching the FAA, FedWorld, and
>other
> > (AOPA, etc) sites trying to find "all applicable ADs". I assume there
>is
>an
> > easier way to do this. I do know that my engine logbook from Aerosport
> > Power contains a list of ADs that were complied with, but the inspector
>said
> > that I need to prove compliance from the date of manufacture to today.
> >
> > Now I have found that the FAA is bringing up a new web site this
>weekend.
> > Fedworld, and all the links from other sites to it, would not access FAA
> > data. The new FAA site (http://AFS6000.FAA.GOV) contains information on
>ADs
> > but I couldn't find an index for any year but 2000, and then for only
> > "large" engines, "large" propellers, and "large" airplanes. (Boy, I
>feel
> > bad for Boeing. Their index was about 30 pages long.) When I search on
> > Lycoming, I don't get a single hit. I'm pretty sure that that's not
> > correct.
> >
> > How have others done this? Is there an easier way? I sure hope so or
>my
> > airplane is never going to get in the air. Airventure is drawing closer
>and
> > I had hoped to make it this year.
> >
> > Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6
> > "Copying, Faxing, and Feeding the Paperwork Monster"
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rudder pop rivets |
| From: | "Robert Dickson" <bubba(at)coastalnet.com> |
I'm ready to rivet the rudder skin to the skeleton, but first need to rivet
the 410 to the 405 and 404. The plans call for an LP4-3 blind rivet as an
option to rivet to the 405. Did I receive any of these with the emp kit? The
only blind rivets I have that look like they'll work are AD-41-ABS and
MSP-42. Are either of these what I should use?
Robert Dickson
Fayetteville NC
RV-6A emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Schneider" <schneider.larry(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More Fed Paperwork |
I do beleive that if an engine has a lycoming plate on it, it is a certified
engine, subject to all AD'S. If you remove the data plate and replace it
with an experimental one then it is an experimental engine. 40 hrs of fly
off time!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 5:38 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
>
> OK ....HUH....let me jump in here with a few (HAHA) words and maybe some
> clarification. While it may seem unreasonable, during th einitial
> certification the inspector can ask for the AD list "in the interest of
> safety". I know that it is a catch-all phrase. Please hear me out a bit
> before you flame me. Remember, this is the "INITIAL" inspection and the
> inspector is signing his name to your logbook, airworthiness certificate,
> and operating limitations. He is taking a lot of liability here and has
the
> right to make sure the aircraft is safe to his expectatiosn. You could
push
> the AD point with him and even go over his head to his supervisor. But
the
> bottom line is while he may be being a stickler is is also looking out for
> your safety and his as*.
> Believe me, I have had to pick up pieces, aircraft and human, from
> accidents, and it isn't pretty. I always ask for a list of AD's but if
the
> builder makes a stink of it I let it go but I will get into the aspects of
> safety with that person to the point he may have wished he got the AD
list.
> They aren't hard to get. Any A&P or IA out there can pull up a list in
> minutes from their computer.
>
> Now for the second point...mostly to Bryan, but all others of interest as
> well. Airworthiness Directives can, and are, issued on ALL pieces of
> equipment installed on aircraft. Off the top of my head, I can think of
one
> that is on an ignition switch mounted in some Cessnas. The AD are listed
> usign the manufacturer's name, and not the aircraft. Again, go ask your
> local, friendly A&P to show you a list. But be prepared to give him the
> make, model, part number and/or serial number for every individual
component
> you have. It isn't that bad but you get the point.
>
> Mike Robertson
> RV-8A
>
>
> >From: "Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: "'rv-list(at)matronics.com'"
> >Subject: RE: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
> >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 16:50:29 -0500
> >
> ><bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
> >
> >Randy -
> >
> >I don't have all the answers to your questions, but I did just finish an
> >inspection this Tuesday.
> >
> >Regarding the AD's... I don't believe you must comply with engine AD's
> >when
> >then engine is mounted on an experimental. I didn't...
> >
> >...did have and offered to show the TC on my prop/engine combo. He said
> >"that's OK", and didn't even look at it. I got the 25 hrs.
> >
> >I would interpret "showing compliance" as being log book entries and
> >receipts for parts on AD specific work on the engine. But then again, I
> >really don't believe an engine can have an AD issued on it alone - I
> >thought
> >the aircraft to which it was certified was issued the AD. But I'm really
> >don't have a good understanding of this subject.
> >
> >I presented my weight and balance worksheet with not one question. What
I
> >did get gigged on was not having a photograph (front and side view) of
the
> >plane to give to the inspector. He said to mail them to him.
> >
> >Sounds like you got one on the formal side of the book. But I still
don't
> >believe the AD issue is legitimate. If you could ask how many
experimental
> >he's certified/inspected without teeing him off, that might explain the
> >issue. Hopefully someone else can answer more clearly.
> >
> >Good luck!
> >
> >Bryan Jones
> >-8 Ready for Test Flight
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Hall" <robjhall(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Selective Availability |
>
> I was just kinda wondering if anyone who uses GPS on any regular basis has
> noticed a difference in accuracy since the end of Selective Availability.
> Since I am not currently using a GPS, I am curious about this.
In the past my Garmin GPS Pilot III displayed an estimated position error of
around 100-130 ft. It is now in the neighborhood of 12-19 ft.
Bob Hall
RV-6, Colorado Springs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
> He mentioned that there
> are dorms, etc that would probably be available on a shorter notice than a hotel.
Keep
> in mind that I'm cheap.
>
>
Keith,
EAA and/or the Oshkosh chamber of commerce keeps a list of locals who rent rooms
in their
homes for the convention. That is what I've done every year I went, usually well
past
when the motels are booked up. It's always worked out and I've always had a very
nice
place to stay.
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com
eCharts
http://www.eCharts.cc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder pop rivets |
Yes Bob,you did get them,except it has a different part number, I'll check
and get back with you
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Dickson" <bubba(at)coastalnet.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 5:21 PM
Subject: RV-List: rudder pop rivets
>
> I'm ready to rivet the rudder skin to the skeleton, but first need to
rivet
> the 410 to the 405 and 404. The plans call for an LP4-3 blind rivet as an
> option to rivet to the 405. Did I receive any of these with the emp kit?
The
> only blind rivets I have that look like they'll work are AD-41-ABS and
> MSP-42. Are either of these what I should use?
>
> Robert Dickson
> Fayetteville NC
> RV-6A emp
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Cole" <edwardmcole(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: transfering hole locations |
Why not use a "strap duplicator". It was designed for this purpose.
Ed Cole
----- Original Message -----
From: "jim jewell" <jjewell(at)okanagan.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 9:45 AM
Subject: RV-List: transfering hole locations
>
> Hello listers,
>
> Last night I emailed this response privately.
> It might be of use to the list.
>
> To transfer blind or hidden holes, a piece of clear plastic (thick Mylar
or
> thin Plexiglas) can be taped or (cleacoed if holes are available) to the
> area over the structure that has the holes that need to be copied.
>
> The clear "plastic" is firmly attached and indexed to the structure on one
> edge only, then the positions of the holes to be copied are marked,
drilled
> (40 drill will do) or center punched into the plastic.
>
> Then the new piece to be drilled can be slid under the clear plastic
> pattern.
>
> If care is taken to not allow the plastic to move and the index marks are
> used
> to check against movement,.the new piece or part when fitted to
satisfaction
> can then be marked for drilling, or drilled in place.
>
> I hope this is of some use.
>
> Jim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More Fed Paperwork |
Not true. As others will also tell you, once the engine is installed on an
experimental aircraft the AD's are legally no longer applicable. Maybe not
smart or prudent, but legally not applicable.
Mike Robertson
>
>
>
>I do beleive that if an engine has a lycoming plate on it, it is a
>certified
>engine, subject to all AD'S. If you remove the data plate and replace it
>with an experimental one then it is an experimental engine. 40 hrs of fly
>off time!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More Fed Paperwork |
>
You mention that your enginge is an Aerosport Power engine. Tell the Fed that
the engine is experimental just like it says on the data plate and your AD
worries should be over. You should get a 40 hr test period with the AP engine.
Another alternative is to get a DAR to inspect the plane. They are a little
more user friendly.
Gary Zilik
>
>
> I've spent the better part of the day searching the FAA, FedWorld, and other
> (AOPA, etc) sites trying to find "all applicable ADs". I assume there is an
> easier way to do this. I do know that my engine logbook from Aerosport
> Power contains a list of ADs that were complied with, but the inspector said
> that I need to prove compliance from the date of manufacture to today.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
Keith,
My wife and I have been going to the Big O for the last ten years and have camped
every
time. Would not have it any different. Some years are hot, some wet, some wet and
hot
but none can rival last years heat. Half the fun of Oshkosh is the camping and
the
friends we have made while camping. This year since we are flying our newly painted
and
flying hot rod N99PZ we will be roughing it a little more as the baggage compartment
doesnt hold as much as the Ole 182 or our car. Try the camping experience, you
might
like it.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A N99PZ
Keith Hughes wrote:
>
> Just curious...
>
> I'm dreaming of going to Oshkosh (I refuse to say 'Airve...') this year. The
way my
> work schedule is, I won't be able to see if I have the time off in time to make
firm
> plans, so I was wondering if it would be possible to roll into OSH and find some
sort
> of lodging? I had thought that I would just camp out, but then a more sensible
> minded pilot (Spence Matthews, RV-6 Denver) tried to describe what it would be
like
> camping in 100 degree/100% humidity that they sometimes get. He mentioned that
there
> are dorms, etc that would probably be available on a shorter notice than a hotel.
> Keep in mind that I'm cheap.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Keith Hughes
> RV-6 Tanks
> Parker, CO
>
> _
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net> |
I still have an completed prepunched rv-6 enpennage kit for sale that
includes the electric trim option,plans and preview plans. In my honest
opinion the workmanship is excellent. Reason for sellling is that another
kit was aquired that included the wing kit. Complete for $950.00. Contact on
or off list at mphill(at)fgi.net or 217-566-2500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More Fed Paperwork |
I got a good chuckle out of Mike's answer below. After stating what he did
and my flat out No ADs apply to Experimentals, I thought I ought to offer my
personal opinion.
There isn't a reg that says that non-certified plane have to do the ADs.
However, those ADs sometimes are written to not cover the inspector's butt
but to save yours. If a part is continually failing, then replacement
before it causes you a problem makes sense. If you are aware of the problem
and feel it is a non-issue then that can be your decision. Just in the area
of carburetor ADs, are many questionable ADs. First, Metal, then Plastic,
now back to metal. Two piece venturis, then one piece, but if you waited
long enough two is O.K. if you inspect it. But if it breaks they want a one
piece.
Still use Earl Lawrence to clarify. He knows. He talks to The higher ups for
the true situation. Once again the local is making his interpretation of
the regs. It should be the same for everyone but it unfortunately isn't.
One can cut down a metal prop and install on an experimental, but I wouldn't
as my opinion it is very dangerous.
Experimentals fly using the same laws of Physics as certified, they just
don't have to pick up as much paper.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
>
> Good Advice.
>
> Mike Robertson
>
>
> >From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: ,
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
> >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:19:05 -0500
> >
> >
> >Once again... ADs do not apply to experimentals, PERIOD! Contact Earl
> >Lawrence at EAA Government Programs for advice and help.
elawrence(at)eaa.org
> >He might produce an FAR number or a Fed statement that ADs are not
> >applicable on non-certificated airplanes. You can also call and talk to
him
> >1-920-426-4800 and ask for Earl Lawrence during the day.
> >
> >Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
> >(Click here to visit our Club site at
http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
> >To:
> >Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 3:59 PM
> >Subject: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I'm afraid that I need more help fellas,
> > >
> > > I heard from my inspector today. He called to say that he had
received
> >my
> > > "chunk" of paperwork that was originally requested. This included the
> >usual
> > > notarized forms and applications. I thought he was calling me to
> >schedule
> > > my inspection. (Silly me. This is the Federal Government after all.)
> > >
> > > He requested that I fax him a bunch of additional information like the
> >type
> > > certificate for my engine/prop combo, weight and balance section from
> >the
> > > Pilot's Operating Handbook, and (the one that has me stumped)
> >demonstrated
> > > compliance with all ADs on engine, prop, and accessories.
> > >
> > > "Okay, I'll get that right over to you!" The first two weren't a
> >problem,
> > > but how do I demonstrate compliance with all applicable ADs?
> > >
> > > I've spent the better part of the day searching the FAA, FedWorld, and
> >other
> > > (AOPA, etc) sites trying to find "all applicable ADs". I assume there
> >is
> >an
> > > easier way to do this. I do know that my engine logbook from
Aerosport
> > > Power contains a list of ADs that were complied with, but the
inspector
> >said
> > > that I need to prove compliance from the date of manufacture to today.
> > >
> > > Now I have found that the FAA is bringing up a new web site this
> >weekend.
> > > Fedworld, and all the links from other sites to it, would not access
FAA
> > > data. The new FAA site (http://AFS6000.FAA.GOV) contains information
on
> >ADs
> > > but I couldn't find an index for any year but 2000, and then for only
> > > "large" engines, "large" propellers, and "large" airplanes. (Boy, I
> >feel
> > > bad for Boeing. Their index was about 30 pages long.) When I search
on
> > > Lycoming, I don't get a single hit. I'm pretty sure that that's not
> > > correct.
> > >
> > > How have others done this? Is there an easier way? I sure hope so or
> >my
> > > airplane is never going to get in the air. Airventure is drawing
closer
> >and
> > > I had hoped to make it this year.
> > >
> > > Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6
> > > "Copying, Faxing, and Feeding the Paperwork Monster"
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRawls3896(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rusty water in compressor |
I had a compressor that did the same thing. It did eventually did get
some pin holes in the tank. This took about 10 years and I used it daily. It
was one of the cheaper brands also (Sanborn) but I welded the holes up and it
is still being used today after 16 years. I bought a Craftsman upright and it
produces the same rust colored water. I don't let it worry me to much. Just
drain it everyday.
Mike Rawls (wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rusty water in compressor |
Mike be careful, i know a quy that did the same thing,welded the holes,5
months later it blew up with him in the garage, he was ok,but he said he
wouldnt do it again
----- Original Message -----
From: <MRawls3896(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rusty water in compressor
>
> I had a compressor that did the same thing. It did eventually did get
> some pin holes in the tank. This took about 10 years and I used it daily.
It
> was one of the cheaper brands also (Sanborn) but I welded the holes up and
it
> is still being used today after 16 years. I bought a Craftsman upright and
it
> produces the same rust colored water. I don't let it worry me to much.
Just
> drain it everyday.
>
> Mike Rawls (wings)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Reynolds <RVReynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cowling fit- 6a 17.75 in |
Don Jordan wrote:
>
> Now George O. came up 17.75 with a reference mark on each side. I can't find
that anywhere.
The "approximate" 17.75 inch dimension is shown in SK-97, Chapter 12 of
the RV-6 manual. I think it is a test to see if you read all the
available information.
Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kimberly or Curtiss" <haujobb(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for a ride. |
Im telling ya,You should try a ride in the rocket www.teamrocketaircraft.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike <mdivan(at)home.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 1:06 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Looking for a ride.
>
> I have never been to Desert Center (flown over it)that might be a good
> flight. What are you building?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Wndwlkr711(at)aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 5:48 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for a ride.
>
>
>
> I can't help with the ride for another few years but if you want to see a
> work in progress, fly out to Desert Center and I'll show you a a set of
> wings.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | VP4SkyDoc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:extending strobe wires |
In a message dated 5/25/2000 11:54:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
capsteve(at)wzrd.com writes:
> I'm placing a dual nav strobe light in the bottom of my rudder and need to
> extend the strobe wires. Should I use three conductor shielded wire or just
> appropriately sized single conductor? I'm concerned about strobe noise.
> What type of signal is carried to the strobe? I'm not sure how they work
can
> someone enlighten me??
> thanks
>
> Steven DiNieri
> capsteve(at)wzrd.com
>
Steve, the wire that came with my wellen stobes is 3-conductor shielded.
This is what I recommend (IMHO), since the wire will be carrying high voltage
bursts.
Dave Leonard
RV-6 Mazda 13B
N4VY reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
> Just curious...
Keith,
I am not a camper. I never camp anywhere..... My definition of roughing it
is a hotel without the WX channel.
Having said all that, I camp at OSH every year. It isnt really camping.
Showers and hot food. It always cools down in the evening, and nothing in
the world is any better than waking up to the sound of a Merlin engine in
the morning!!!!!!!!!
Go For it!!!!
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com\dougr
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | RV Operating Manual |
Hi,
Has anyone compiled an RV operating manual that they can e-mail to me?
I was looking through an Piper Archer manual and thought I should have
something like this for the RV-6.
Thank you.
-Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Break in Oil |
Lister's
I am going to testing my engine very soon. A IO360 A1A (200hp).
I had the engine O/H (new parts limits) & the engine was run in a test cell
for 2.5 hours by the O/H shop.
What would be the best oil for the initial 25 - 50 hours?
I had the oil filter adapter installed.
I have been told by some to use a straight mineral oil during this period.
My Lycoming operator's manual is suggesting SAE 60 grade or 15W50 or 20W50.
I am in Dallas Texas & it is hot 80+ degrees now.
I also saw that Aeroshell is offering oil for purchase on their web page
http://www.shell-lubricants.com/. Has anybody any comments of purchasing oil
in this manner.
Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks...Mark
Mark Steffensen
RV8A Dallas TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Hughes <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New builder woes |
Don,
As "What's his name" says, "I feel your pain"! I though I was over that when I
finished the tail kit, but at the end of a long session doing the leading edge
of the wings, I did the exact same thing. One rivet...four tries. Finally, I
drilled it out to a #30 and put in an "Oops" rivet. I think, and believe me I'm
not sure, that by drilling it out, I had made the hole somehow slightly larger,
and therefor allowed the rivet to move laterally while it set. I'm sure you
will get a lot better, more professional answers, but what worked for me was
filling the hole with an 1/8th rivet. And you can't even tell.
There may be a few more out there for us both..... Hang in there.
Keith Hughes
RV-6 tanks
Parker, CO
"D. Winters" wrote:
> Today, I reach a new level of frustration as I drilled out the same rivet 4
> times in a row. This occured when building the VS skeleton.
> Each time I took it out, I patiently looked at the hole and convinced myself
> that I knew what caused the previous mishap.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <Emrath(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rusty water in compressor |
Years ago, my wife and I had a friend that was building a house and was
killed when the compressor he was using blew up!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rusty water in compressor
>
> Never ever tie down the safety valve. Never set it for more than the
> manufacturers rating. Turn it off when done. Check it frequently, and
sump
> at the end of the day instead of at the beginning. I've got pictures of a
> tank that blew. After publishing it, I had 4 people tell me about their
> explosions, holes blown in roof, overhead door destroyed, and near misses
> with death.
>
> A hydro-check once in a while would be a good thing.
>
> Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
> (Click here to visit our Club site at
http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 10:49 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Rusty water in compressor
>
>
> >
> >
> > > Listers--Is it normal to drain a couple of tablespoons of rusty water
> > from
> > > one's compressor after a day of building?
> >
> >
> > Yes, but the good news is that they usually leak before they blow up.
> >
> > Alex Peterson
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New builder woes |
I'm not sure where the rivet is - but I would go over-size on the rivet.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Break in Oil |
--- Mark Steffensen wrote:
>
>
> Lister's
>
> I am going to testing my engine very soon. A IO360
> A1A (200hp).
>
> I had the engine O/H (new parts limits) & the engine
> was run in a test cell
> for 2.5 hours by the O/H shop.
>
> What would be the best oil for the initial 25 - 50
> hours?
>
> I had the oil filter adapter installed.
>
> I have been told by some to use a straight mineral
> oil during this period.
>
> My Lycoming operator's manual is suggesting SAE 60
> grade or 15W50 or 20W50.
>
> I am in Dallas Texas & it is hot 80+ degrees now.
>
> I also saw that Aeroshell is offering oil for
> purchase on their web page
> http://www.shell-lubricants.com/. Has anybody any
> comments of purchasing oil
> in this manner.
>
> Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks...Mark
>
> Mark Steffensen
> RV8A Dallas TX
Mineral oil is recommend the first 25 - 50 hours till
oil consumption stabilizes.
I ran Phillips 20-50 mineral oil that I purchased
through Chief for about 8-12 hours then changed it and
the spin on filter. A lot of crud was in the filter
from the overhaul. Used 20 - 50 mineral oil again
till 25 hours since overhaul. Had no oil consuption
so switched to AeroShell 15-50. Changed again at 50
hours and now change every 50. Oil sample for
analysis every other change.
Run a Mineral oil till oil consuption stabilizes. If
you have steel cylinders, I expect at 25 you can then
go to the AD oils. If you have chrome cylinders, you
may need to run longer on mineral oil.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
Flying So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: New builder woes |
There are several solutions. You need to fasten two pieces through a hole.
The objective is to achieve design strength at the least cost and weight.
Vans design uses the solid shank rivets because they meet this criteria the
best. Pop rivets and bolts cost more but can certainly be used in a few
trouble spots. If you have enough edge space you can drill it up to 3/16 and
install a small bolt with a nylock nut.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta, BC
> Hello Everyone!
> Today, I reach a new level of frustration as I drilled out the same rivet
4
> times in a row. This occured when building the VS skeleton. One of the
4-5
> rivets used to fasten the V402, V404 and V405 just wouldn't go in without
> cleating over.
>
> Now my question: Do I ignore the damage and leave the rivet out? Should
I
> build a "washer" for each side drilled to the proper rivet size?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | RV Operating Manual |
Message posted by: Glenn & Judi
> Has anyone compiled an RV operating manual that they can e-mail to me?
> I was looking through an Piper Archer manual and thought I should have
> something like this for the RV-6.
Glenn, Judi and ALL:
On Dec. 3, 1997 Scott Gisele posted a fairly complete and robust POH on the
list. And pretty classy looking. Check the Archives under the subject
"RV-6A Pilot Operating Handbook".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Extinguishers (long reply) |
> Is any one installing a second fire extinguisher and plumbing it to
> the engine compartment? If so, what type?
If you will do an archive search using "halon" you will get more hits
than you can stand.
:)
You will see that I have been involved in those discussions as this is
a design point for me as well. I don't have all the answers yet and am
not sure how to implement a system. I do have plenty of questions!
There are different opinions (NO!) regarding its use in an aircraft.
In the case of a cabin fire you will want to vent while using Halon as
it will displace the oxygen with the Halon gas - your body won't know
the difference until you black out.
This is bad.
For engine fires, there are considerations which no one using this list
has (to date) had the experience to comment. That is, no one has had
A)an in flight fire _and_ B)an extinguishing system to deploy to
evaluate its effectiveness.
This is good!
At one point, you will see in the archives the irony of a discussion
with the late Von Alexander who seemed to be interested in putting
remote fire nozzles in his project. While we can find out if he did
install such a system, we'll never know if he deployed it - if he did
it apparently didn't work.
A big problem is the air moving through the engine compartment. While
we can come up with all sorts of great designs that would work great on
the ground (static), will they work as well with 100 MPH breeze through
the affected area? We could place a nozzle forward of the carb, facing
aft in case of a carb fire. We could place several nozzles forward of
the engine so that the Halon would be blown back across it, then use a
large enough bottle that we think will snuff out the fire.
There are other things to consider: In a military (or commercial as
well) emergency shutdown/fire system, all potential ingredients for a
fire are denied (fuel and air) with one pull of the handle.
"Fuel" can take the form of electricity (electrical fire), an oil leak
spraying on hot exhaust, or obviously avgas spraying on hot exhaust.
Before triggering the extinguisher the fire's fuel source must be cut
off (circuit breaker, if installed, fuel valve) before the
extinguishing agent is deployed to deny the "air" component by either
smothering (CO2 and foam and such) or displacing (Halon and other inert
gases).
Otherwise the fire will spring back to life.
Fortunately an electrical fire can be determined by smell. Solution:
All switches off, open vents, fire the bottle (nozzle behind instrument
panel) and pray.
Engine fire? Some sort of something to close off the cowl and carb
intakes? Use you imagination here - I have. Servo controlled doors?
spring loaded manual release doors? and then fuel valve off, all
switches off, open vents, fire the bottle and pray.
Could be that the best fire fighting system is prevention: High
quality fuel and oil lines, installed with care. Proper operation on
the ground to avoid carb fires. Correct fuse sizing and a good plan
for electrical bus distribution...
One reason I'm heading up to Ft. Worth next weekend to see what Bob
Nuckolls has to say about electrical wiring.
Much grist for the mill. Share your thoughts!
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Break in Oil |
| From: | "Shelby Smith" <shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
I am just finishing up the breakin on a O-360 - about 60 hours now. I had
Shell SAE100 to begin with and during the winter switched to SAE 80. Bought
the plane with about 20 hrs on the engine and really never experienced much
oil consumption. don't have an oil filter so have been changing the oil
every trwent hours or so. Just put in first round of Shell 15-50.
I am pretty sure Lycoming recommends mineral oil to begin with.
--
Shelby Smith
shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com
RV6A - Skinning Fuselage - 200HP
N95EB - reserved
----------
>From: "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)home.com>
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Engine Break in Oil
>Date: Thu, May 25, 2000, 10:28 PM
>
>
> Lister's
>
> I am going to testing my engine very soon. A IO360 A1A (200hp).
>
> I had the engine O/H (new parts limits) & the engine was run in a test cell
> for 2.5 hours by the O/H shop.
>
> What would be the best oil for the initial 25 - 50 hours?
>
> I had the oil filter adapter installed.
>
> I have been told by some to use a straight mineral oil during this period.
>
> My Lycoming operator's manual is suggesting SAE 60 grade or 15W50 or 20W50.
>
> I am in Dallas Texas & it is hot 80+ degrees now.
>
> I also saw that Aeroshell is offering oil for purchase on their web page
> http://www.shell-lubricants.com/. Has anybody any comments of purchasing oil
> in this manner.
>
> Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks...Mark
>
> Mark Steffensen
> RV8A Dallas TX
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fire Extinguishers/Fuel Source Isolation |
This brings up a good point about the effectiveness of fire extinguishers on
an engine compartment fire... I once saw a KLM 747 strike an engine while
landing. It made a big fireball, but they kept flying (landing) the plane
until they rolled to a stop on the runway before they activated the
extinguisher. I don't know if they were concentrating on keeping it between
the ditches or were waiting until the airspeed was lowest...
We have EIV's (Emergency Isolation Valves) here in the refinery on our
critical equipment. With our EIV's, a fusible link trips closed a valve in
the suction of pumps, isolating of the source of fuel if a fire breaks out.
Maybe such a thing could be considered for oil and fuel for a plane. Anyone
ever heard of such a thing?
Bryan Jones
-8 Ready for Test Flight
Pearland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Draper <mdraper(at)nww.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for Rvs in San Jose Area |
I would appreciate the opportunity to visit any RVs in the San Jose area
next week, in particular any RV-8s or QB projects . I will be in San Jose
next weekend (June 3 & 4, with car) and have some free time between Saturday
noon and Sunday evening. I am willing to roll up my sleeves and help out
on any project, and of course would jump at any chance of brining back an
rv grin to Boston (burgers and 100 LL on me).
The reason? Well, in 1991 I spent a weekend at Vans when they were
teaching the classes, purchased and RV-6 empennange kit and started
building. Never made it past the tail feathers due to a growing family and
a few job changes.
Since then things have settled down a little, I have been flying
centerline, and I can't stop thinking about building an RV-8. When I make
the leap again, it will be via the QB. Since I refuse to enter a 12 step
recovery program, I am looking for some insight into QB projects and
motivation to stay hooked on RVs.
Please feel free to contact me off list.
Thanks in advance,
-Mike Draper
mdraper(at)nww.com
508-490-6443
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lasar ignition |
> A friend asked me my thoughts on the value of installing a Laser ignition
>system on his soon to be finished Piper Pacer as opposed to conventional
>mags. From some of the things I've read on the list and elsewhere, my
>personal bias would be to stick with conventional mags. I'd be interested
>in your opinions, pro & con. This topic should be of interest to RVers, as
>well.
> I used a Jeff Rose mag replacement electronic ignition on my RV and was
>very pleased. Of course, my Pacer friend is restricted to certified, "real
>airplane" stuff. Too bad.
> "Electric Bob", I hope you'll weigh in on this topic.
Cost of ownership and benefits returned are the major
considerations. Advancing the spark for improved
fuel consumption doesn't start to have meaningful
effects until you get to low manifold pressure (high
altitude cruise) operations. Electronic ignition
generally provides better starting performance although
I'm given to understand that the Unisom system is
particularly fussy about low battery voltage during
cranking.
All in all, unless the airplane is anticipated to
spend LOTS of hours at high altitude cruise condtions,
there are no economic gains to be made . . . it would
take the average put-put owner decades to recoupe the
ignition system costs in fuel savings. If he's not
having trouble starting, then electronic ignition
benefits are mute here too . . . if he DOES have
difficulties starting (i.e. likes to fly in cold
weather) then I suspect he could put a show-of-sparks
system on the airplane and get MUCH better starting
performance for a whole lot less bux.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com |
| Subject: | Instrument panel screws |
Does anyone know of a good supply place for instrument panel screws?
I purchased an electric turn coordinator from Van's a few months back and it's
face plate is much thicker than the rest of my instruments. I'm looking for
black brass phillips head screws 6-32 that are an inch long. I have tried
Aircraft Spruce and McMaster Carr with no luck. The longest they have is 3/4
inch in 6-32.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
- Jim Andrews
RV-8AQ ( panel & wiring )
Austin, Texas
N89JA (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David & Betty Burton <dburton(at)foxinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Operating Manual |
http://villagenet.com/~scottg/poh.html
Glenn & Judi wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Has anyone compiled an RV operating manual that they can e-mail to me?
> I was looking through an Piper Archer manual and thought I should have
> something like this for the RV-6.
>
> Thank you.
>
> -Glenn Gordon
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jah" <jah(at)abraxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel screws |
I bought my instrument screws from Winks.
-Jeff
Atlanta
RV-8 Fuselage Stuff
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:37:53 -0500
>
>
>Does anyone know of a good supply place for instrument panel screws?
>
>I purchased an electric turn coordinator from Van's a few months back and it's
>face plate is much thicker than the rest of my instruments. I'm looking for
>black brass phillips head screws 6-32 that are an inch long. I have tried
>Aircraft Spruce and McMaster Carr with no luck. The longest they have is 3/4
>inch in 6-32.
>
>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>- Jim Andrews
>RV-8AQ ( panel & wiring )
>Austin, Texas
>N89JA (reserved)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
| Subject: | bad rivets and how to fix them |
....definitely a couple that I left in place only because I was
afraid that drilling them out would do more damage ...... just wouldn't go
in without cleating over.....Each time I took it out, I patiently looked at
the hole and convinced myself that I knew what caused the previous mishap.
Unfortunately, I failed to recognize that each attempt made the hole larger
and larger.....
Let me offer my .02 worth based on the RV-4, RV-6, RV-8, and HRII's that
I've built, worked on, etc....
A rivet that is too long will often "clinch". You need 1.5 rivet diameters
sticking out of the hole before bucking.
An enlarged hole will cause the rivet to clinch. ( I can hear you muttering
"No kidding")
What to do????
# 1) Van's sells "Oops" rivets with a larger, hole filling shank. I've
never used one. Not that I've never needed one, I just make my own. Much
more convenient than waiting for Van's to ship a bag of every size Oops
rivet on earth. To make one you take your rivet squeezer and squeeze a
rivet slightly to enlarge the diameter until it fits the hole. You may ruin
a few rivets as they tend to bend if not perfectly straight in the squeezer.
Don't worry you won't run out of rivets. Van gives you many more than
you'll need (usually).
# 2) What! That trick didn't work??? OK, just use a pop rivet if it's not
in a critical area (spars) or somewhere where a pop rivet will be
"unsightly". A good pop rivet is much, much better than a clinched solid
rivet. Besides, anyone who says "I never used a pop rivet in my airplane"
is lying OR they have a bunch of questionable rivets scattered throughout
their airframe.
# 3) Dang! You say you can't or don't want to use a pop rivet either.
Well, you should probably go back to #1 above and get some help, a different
bucking bar, or some sleep. Yes, some sleep. Often things are much easier
after you're rested, calmed down, and quit throwing tools.
# 4) Things are getting tense if you're down to the final options mentioned
below.
# 4A) You can sometimes drill completely through the "bad" rivet that
you installed on your last attempt. Use a pin punch to snap off the rivet
head AND the bucktail. Leave the shank in the hole to fill the stretched
area you made by putting in all these bad rivets. Install a good rivet
right over the wreckage left in the hole then move on and forget about it...
assuming that you made a good rivet this time. A good rivet will usually
cover everything nicely, but if it doesn't....
# 4B) If the hole is so bad that you can't use technique #4A, you can
drill the hole up to the next size rivet and try again. This often looks
bad, but is OK if you don't violate the 2X rivet diameter to edge distance
rule.
# 4C) If you get really, really frustrated you can use a nut and bolt.
Don't forget to put a little paint, such as zinc chromate, on the bolt and
install it wet. Helps to stop corrosion. Of course, bolts are heavy and
expensive so try to avoid this last resort.
# 5) This one's a real last resort, work stopping, ego killer. Order a new
part (or parts) and start over. Doh!
As always, use your best judgement!
Vince Frazier
EAA tech counselor #1875
Harmon Rocket II
N314VF reserved
http://www.usi.edu/CHEM/FACULTY/vfrazier/page1.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel screws |
Spruce has them. Just follow the numbering convention for the size and
length that you need and they'll send them to you even if the are not in the
catalog. I have black brass screws several inches long that I know came
from Spruce.
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6
> Does anyone know of a good supply place for instrument panel screws?
>
> I purchased an electric turn coordinator from Van's a few months back and
it's
> face plate is much thicker than the rest of my instruments. I'm looking
for
> black brass phillips head screws 6-32 that are an inch long. I have tried
> Aircraft Spruce and McMaster Carr with no luck. The longest they have is
3/4
> inch in 6-32.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Karl Schilling <k_schilling(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Instrument panel screws |
D&D
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com [SMTP:Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com]
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 09:38
Subject: RV-List: Instrument panel screws
Does anyone know of a good supply place for instrument panel screws?
I
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fran Malczynski" <ebafm(at)yahoo.com> |
RV-Listers, my wife and I will be in the San Diego area starting June 1st to
help my son and daughter-in-law with the birth of their first baby. I expect
that we will have some time free and would be interested in looking at any
RV's that are in progress or completed. I'm working on the finish kit on my
RV6 and will be starting canopy installation upon our return. Also we would
be interested in any aviation related activities that may be taking place in
that area from June 1st. through June 11th.
Thanks
Francis Malczynski
RV6 (finish)
Olcott, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | cowling fit- 6a 17.75 in |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
Thanks Richard:
You are right. I been at this for 38 months & got to where I don't look
at that "original" book anymore. I was thinking about DRwg 63 the other
day, The plans are so much better now. I just checked the ref dimention
last nite & it is 17 3/4's. I just hate messing wiht the F/G.
Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
**********************************************
writes:
>
> Don Jordan wrote:
> >
> > Now George O. came up 17.75 with a reference mark on each side. I
> can't find that anywhere.
>
> The "approximate" 17.75 inch dimension is shown in SK-97, Chapter 12
> of
> the RV-6 manual. I think it is a test to see if you read all the
> available information.
>
> Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | More Fed Paperwork |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
Mike:
I been running the Ad's on my engine. It has been stored for 7 years.
If an A&P (or does it take an AI?) logged "all" Ad's c/w to this date,
will I need to just go back to that date in my search?
Are the Ad's applicable on an Lycoming after the owner has decided to
make it "non-certified"? I guess Mazda & chev & ford would be applicable
too, if they had any.
I was planning on wineing & dinning an A&P and keep it certified.
Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
**********************************************
Randy,
>
> Best thing you could do is take your make, model, and S/N of the
> engine and
> prop to an IA at your local airport.
> Mike Robertson> RV-8A> Painting
>
> >From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
> >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 15:59:21 -0500
> >
>
> >
> >I'm afraid that I need more help fellas,
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New builder woes |
In a message dated 5/25/00 6:50:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
dtw50(at)freewwweb.com writes:
<< Unfortunately, I failed to
recognize that each attempt made the hole larger and larger. Now my
question: Do I ignore the damage and leave the rivet out? >>
No!
This is just my opinion Don, but in situations like this (and I have been
there and done that too many times) I have learned to use Cherrymax rivets.
You can get them in -4 standard (#30 drill) or oversize which works for
slightly oversize holes that will clean up with a #27 drill, or you can go to
a -5 in either standard or oversize. According to the "Standard A/C
Handbook", the oversize -4 is equivalent to a -4 solid rivet in strength.
These guys are a little pricey but work good if you use the right grip
length. Be sure to get a Cherry rivet gauge if you order the rivets, it's
well worth the extra 10 bucks. Check ACS catalog.
Harry Crosby
-6 finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Biddle" <dbiddle(at)wans.net> |
| Subject: | Instrument panel screws |
MS35214-31 are black oxide coated pan head brass 1" 6/32 screws
I just got more this week from Varga http://www.vargaair.com/
Wicks has them too http://www.wicksaircraft.com page 131
Dave Biddle
RV6A - plumbing brake and fuel lines
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
Another fire prevention method, specifically during a forced landing in
unfriendly territory, would be to devise a method to quickly drain your
tanks prior to an uncertain touchdown.
To begin to explore this possibility, here are some questions I'd like to
pose to the engineers on the list.
1] If each tank had it's own dump, how large would the opening have to be
in order to drain 15 gallons of fuel in one minute?
2] If the tanks were joined by a pipe and center valve, how large would the
pipes and valve opening need to be to drain 30 gallons in one minute.
3] What would be the required vent size to accomodate this drainage. Would
our current vents suffice?
4] Would the rate of drainage be significantly enhanced with an electric
pump added to the system?
5] Finally, (and this may end this conversation before it started), even if
we are able to drain 99% of the liquid fuel, there would still be vapor in
the tanks. Would this small amount of fuel and vapor maintain as dangerous
a situation as if the tanks were partially full?
I suppose we could always work on some kind of fan inside the tank to purge
the vapor. Actually, with enough money and added weight and complexity we
can do anything we want. What I wonder is, given these issues and other to
come, if this may be a practical way to deal with fire prevention in our
RVs.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Extinguishers/Fuel Source Isolation |
<bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
>
>We have EIV's (Emergency Isolation Valves) here in the refinery on our
>critical equipment. With our EIV's, a fusible link trips closed a valve in
>the suction of pumps, isolating of the source of fuel if a fire breaks out.
>Maybe such a thing could be considered for oil and fuel for a plane. Anyone
>ever heard of such a thing?
>
>Bryan Jones
We have a fuel valve in the cockpit. If we had an automatically closing
fuel valve, I would be worried about a failure mode where the valve could
close when it shouldn't.
As far as the oil system goes, I'm not sure there is any way to stop the
flow of oil, other than shutting down the engine, and slowing down so it
stops turning.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit floor, etc)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: bad rivets and how to fix them |
>
> ....definitely a couple that I left in place only because I was
>afraid that drilling them out would do more damage ...... just wouldn't go
>in without cleating over.....Each time I took it out, I patiently looked at
>the hole and convinced myself that I knew what caused the previous mishap.
>Unfortunately, I failed to recognize that each attempt made the hole larger
>and larger.....
>
>Let me offer my .02 worth based on the RV-4, RV-6, RV-8, and HRII's that
>I've built, worked on, etc....
>
>A rivet that is too long will often "clinch". You need 1.5 rivet diameters
>sticking out of the hole before bucking.
>
>An enlarged hole will cause the rivet to clinch. ( I can hear you muttering
>"No kidding")
>
>What to do????
>
># 1) Van's sells "Oops" rivets with a larger, hole filling shank. I've
>never used one. Not that I've never needed one, I just make my own. Much
>more convenient than waiting for Van's to ship a bag of every size Oops
>rivet on earth. To make one you take your rivet squeezer and squeeze a
>rivet slightly to enlarge the diameter until it fits the hole. You may ruin
>a few rivets as they tend to bend if not perfectly straight in the squeezer.
>Don't worry you won't run out of rivets. Van gives you many more than
>you'll need (usually).
>
># 2) What! That trick didn't work??? OK, just use a pop rivet if it's not
>in a critical area (spars) or somewhere where a pop rivet will be
>"unsightly". A good pop rivet is much, much better than a clinched solid
>rivet. Besides, anyone who says "I never used a pop rivet in my airplane"
>is lying OR they have a bunch of questionable rivets scattered throughout
>their airframe.
>
># 3) Dang! You say you can't or don't want to use a pop rivet either.
>Well, you should probably go back to #1 above and get some help, a different
>bucking bar, or some sleep. Yes, some sleep. Often things are much easier
>after you're rested, calmed down, and quit throwing tools.
>
># 4) Things are getting tense if you're down to the final options mentioned
>below.
>
> # 4A) You can sometimes drill completely through the "bad" rivet that
>you installed on your last attempt. Use a pin punch to snap off the rivet
>head AND the bucktail. Leave the shank in the hole to fill the stretched
>area you made by putting in all these bad rivets. Install a good rivet
>right over the wreckage left in the hole then move on and forget about it...
>assuming that you made a good rivet this time. A good rivet will usually
>cover everything nicely, but if it doesn't....
>
> # 4B) If the hole is so bad that you can't use technique #4A, you can
>drill the hole up to the next size rivet and try again. This often looks
>bad, but is OK if you don't violate the 2X rivet diameter to edge distance
>rule.
>
> # 4C) If you get really, really frustrated you can use a nut and bolt.
>Don't forget to put a little paint, such as zinc chromate, on the bolt and
>install it wet. Helps to stop corrosion. Of course, bolts are heavy and
>expensive so try to avoid this last resort.
>
># 5) This one's a real last resort, work stopping, ego killer. Order a new
>part (or parts) and start over. Doh!
>
>As always, use your best judgement!
>
>
>Vince Frazier
Lots of good advice here, but I'm not crazy about option 4A. It will look
OK cosmetically, but I'm not convinced you will get the desired strength.
There is often another option - in many cases you can leave the bad rivet
as is, and drill a couple of new holes, one on each side of the bad rivet.
It won't look nice, but you should get full strength, as long as you have
2x dia edge distances, and 3x dia between rivet holes (measured from centre
of hole to centre of hole).
I have also learned the hard way that rivets really want to clinch if they
are any longer than 1.5x dia. They are even more likely to clinch if the
hole is a bit big, or you aren't driving straight onto the rivet (offset
rivet set for example). In some difficult areas I resorted to cutting
rivets to make half sizes. I also found that you can cheat just a tiny bit
and have the rivet just slightly less than 1.5x dia in length, if you use
the head diameter and height criteria in the MIL-SPEC on riveting (link
from my RV Links web page).
I also get better results using the C-frame tool to rivet (the Avery
C-frame comes with an accessory to drive rivets). The C-frame can only be
used for some parts, but it does allow you to get the rivet set exactly in
line with the rivet, which minimizes the chance of clinching a rivet.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit floor, etc)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel screws |
In a message dated 5/26/00 8:07:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com writes:
<< I'm looking for
black brass phillips head screws 6-32 that are an inch long. I have tried
Aircraft Spruce and McMaster Carr with no luck. The longest they have is 3/4
inch in 6-32. >>
Call Olander. They're in the Yellers.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter laurence <plaurenc(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New builder woes |
Don,
Here is my 3 cents worth--
Check to see if the hole is already enlarged to a # 30. If so, use an
"oops" rivet.
If not, Try using a little longer rivet and squeeze it to make it thick
enough to fit snug. This will prevent the rivet from tipping.BTW, when
dimpling a 40 hole, the die will enlarge the hole so that a 3/32 rivet
might not fit snuggnly. By fattening the rivets before you place them
will prevent tipping. Yes I know, you'll invest a few hours in the
process, but drilling them out is worse.
Peter Laurence
RV6A wings
"D. Winters" wrote:
>
>
> Today, I reach a new level of frustration as I drilled out the same rivet 4
> times in a row. This occured when building the VS skeleton. One of the 4-5
> rivets used to fasten the V402, V404 and V405 just wouldn't go in without
> cleating over.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel stop on RV-6A (and RV-8A) |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
I am not currently on the list but I cruise through the archives
occasionally.
I noticed the question posted about the nose wheel stop for an RV-6A.
I was not surprised at the variety of answers because of the large # of
builders I have had contact with who call Van's complain that the design
is faulty.
They fail to keep the friction adjusted to the correct value (this should
be check regularly in the first 100 hrs or so because it wears in and
loosens up with use), which causes a bad nose wheel shimmy. If the stop
is installed incorrectly (in the back) it can be totally destroyed in the
blink of an eye with a bad shimmy.
As has already been mentioned it also limits the turning radius. The
only reason for the stop is to be sure that if the airplane ever rolled
back on an uneven ramp surface, it would not be possible for a (large
diam.) turning propeller to hit the wheel fairing.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel stop on RV-6A (and RV-8A) |
Scott,
Please re-join the list!
I miss you quick & insightful comment.
Mark Steffensen
RV8A Dallas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott R McDaniels" <smcdaniels(at)juno.com>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 7:42 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Nosewheel stop on RV-6A (and RV-8A)
>
>
> I am not currently on the list but I cruise through the archives
> occasionally.
>
> I noticed the question posted about the nose wheel stop for an RV-6A.
>
> I was not surprised at the variety of answers because of the large # of
> builders I have had contact with who call Van's complain that the design
> is faulty.
>
> They fail to keep the friction adjusted to the correct value (this should
> be check regularly in the first 100 hrs or so because it wears in and
> loosens up with use), which causes a bad nose wheel shimmy. If the stop
> is installed incorrectly (in the back) it can be totally destroyed in the
> blink of an eye with a bad shimmy.
>
> As has already been mentioned it also limits the turning radius. The
> only reason for the stop is to be sure that if the airplane ever rolled
> back on an uneven ramp surface, it would not be possible for a (large
> diam.) turning propeller to hit the wheel fairing.
>
>
> Scott McDaniels
> North Plains, OR
> These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
> reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel stop on RV-6A (and RV-8A) |
Hey Scott
Welcome back, missed your inside knowledge, nice to hear from you again
!!
Gert
Scott R McDaniels wrote:
>
>
> I am not currently on the list but I cruise through the archives
> occasionally.
>
> I noticed the question posted about the nose wheel stop for an RV-6A.
>
> I was not surprised at the variety of answers because of the large # of
> builders I have had contact with who call Van's complain that the design
> is faulty.
>
> They fail to keep the friction adjusted to the correct value (this should
> be check regularly in the first 100 hrs or so because it wears in and
> loosens up with use), which causes a bad nose wheel shimmy. If the stop
> is installed incorrectly (in the back) it can be totally destroyed in the
> blink of an eye with a bad shimmy.
>
> As has already been mentioned it also limits the turning radius. The
> only reason for the stop is to be sure that if the airplane ever rolled
> back on an uneven ramp surface, it would not be possible for a (large
> diam.) turning propeller to hit the wheel fairing.
>
> Scott McDaniels
> North Plains, OR
> These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
> reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
>
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel stop on RV-6A (and RV-8A) |
We've missed you Scott!!!
>
>
> I am not currently on the list but I cruise through the archives
> occasionally.
>
> I noticed the question posted about the nose wheel stop for an RV-6A.
>
> I was not surprised at the variety of answers because of the large # of
> builders I have had contact with who call Van's complain that the design
> is faulty.
>
> They fail to keep the friction adjusted to the correct value (this should
> be check regularly in the first 100 hrs or so because it wears in and
> loosens up with use), which causes a bad nose wheel shimmy. If the stop
> is installed incorrectly (in the back) it can be totally destroyed in the
> blink of an eye with a bad shimmy.
>
> As has already been mentioned it also limits the turning radius. The
> only reason for the stop is to be sure that if the airplane ever rolled
> back on an uneven ramp surface, it would not be possible for a (large
> diam.) turning propeller to hit the wheel fairing.
>
>
> Scott McDaniels
> North Plains, OR
> These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
> reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Shenk <dshenk(at)ruralhealth.org> |
Sorry, this is not strictly RV related but I'm going to be in Boise for
a couple of days. Just wondered if anyone has any advice about which
FBO to use. We will be staying a couple of days and will need tie-down
space and car rental. Please reply off list. Thanks for any help.
Doug Shenk, dshenk(at)ruralhealth.org.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gummos" <tg1965(at)linkline.com> |
Scott,
I for one would be pleased if we heard from you more often.
Take it from one who would NEVER be a couple of months from flying, if I
didn't have plenty of help. THE LIST IS A BETTER PLACE WHEN YOU ARE
CORRECTING THE
MIS-INFORMATION folks like me put out.
Please stay i touch more often.
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
RV-4+
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
I've thought about doing something like this, although I'm pretty sure that
I won't as I'm not convinced the benefits outweigh the risks. FWIW, here's
what I came up with:
1) The quickest/simplest way to get the gas out would be to use a small
bottle of gas (e.g. CO2) to blow the gasoline out, instead of electrically
pumping it out.
2) A pop-off panel somewhere on the tank could be blown open by increased
pressure once the C02 valve is opened.
Like I said, I don't think it's something I'd do but I thought these were
interesting ideas.
Also, the tank attach mod in the 1998 RVator seems like a good idea (milling
the slots in the tank/fuselage junctures), at least it might help minimize
the chances the tanks would tear open...
-Matthew
RV-8 (or is that -8A?) wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Builder's
Bookstore
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 1:52 PM
Subject: RV-List: Quick Fuel Dump
Another fire prevention method, specifically during a forced landing in
unfriendly territory, would be to devise a method to quickly drain your
tanks prior to an uncertain touchdown.
To begin to explore this possibility, here are some questions I'd like to
pose to the engineers on the list.
1] If each tank had it's own dump, how large would the opening have to be
in order to drain 15 gallons of fuel in one minute?
2] If the tanks were joined by a pipe and center valve, how large would the
pipes and valve opening need to be to drain 30 gallons in one minute.
3] What would be the required vent size to accomodate this drainage. Would
our current vents suffice?
4] Would the rate of drainage be significantly enhanced with an electric
pump added to the system?
5] Finally, (and this may end this conversation before it started), even if
we are able to drain 99% of the liquid fuel, there would still be vapor in
the tanks. Would this small amount of fuel and vapor maintain as dangerous
a situation as if the tanks were partially full?
I suppose we could always work on some kind of fan inside the tank to purge
the vapor. Actually, with enough money and added weight and complexity we
can do anything we want. What I wonder is, given these issues and other to
come, if this may be a practical way to deal with fire prevention in our
RVs.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Fire Extinguishers - very long |
I went to Air-Sea Fire & Safety today. Got a nice long lecture and a tour
from a sales rep there. This is a large outfit that supports all sizes of
commercial activity at nearby Vancouver International Airport. All majors
cities in North America a likely to have an outfit just like it serving the
local airline traffic.
This guy said that all of the aircraft that they service carry Halon
extinguishers for engine compartments and cabins. He advised that dry
chemicals would be useless under the cowl where air is moving rapidly. They
need calm conditions where the powder snuffs out the flames. Dry chem in the
cabin would be a very bad idea. He indicated that Transport Canada does not
want to see dry chemical fire extinguishers in the cockpit but he never did
say that it was illegal. I am still unclear on this point.
Fires that are out in windy areas can be snuffed out with a large volume of
Halon. The extinguishers must have very large outlet valves. Large jet
engines use very small containers that are usually spherical. My tour guide
showed me a bench full of them. They were only 8-10 inches round and held
Halon at 600 psi. They had two valves that were about 3/4" each. They were
opened by a small explosive charge called a squib (fired electrically).
Perhaps some of our airline pilot listers can add some thing here. (how many
per engine, effectiveness, ect...) These types of extinguishers begin at
$5000 (Canadian). They are surprisingly small and very lightweight.
Smaller aircraft can benefit from auto racing technology. Many race cars are
subject to the same airspeeds as our aircraft. This is what the sales rep
suggested for me. He said the idea is to blast the Halon into the font of
the engine in one big blast. The important thing is for the tank to have
large plumbing, bigger than a hand held extinguisher.
He gave me the address of a place in California that has an aviation
division and a race car division.
http://www.safecraft.com/
There are quite a few companies in the USA that sell kits for installation
in race cars that meet codes specified by the various racing organizations.
The average price is around $300 USD for a 3 lbs Halon kit that weighs
around 6 lbs. For a few dollars more you can get an aluminum tank that drops
the weight down to about 4.5 lbs.
So now I know that my interior extinguisher will be Halon. If I ever have to
use it I will have to remember to open air vents right after. Breathing is
just as important as flying the airplane. At this point I will be thinking
of a 3 lbs tank. The sales rep said there was even smaller canisters
available. I will reserve decision on the engine compartment until there has
been more discussion in this forum. If enough people feel that it could
actually put out a fire then I will probably feel better flying with one.
Regards,
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Fw: Fire Extinguishers - very long |
I went to Air-Sea Fire & Safety today. Got a nice long lecture and a tour
from a sales rep there. This is a large outfit that supports all sizes of
commercial activity at nearby Vancouver International Airport. All majors
cities in North America a likely to have an outfit just like it serving the
local airline traffic.
This guy said that all of the aircraft that they service carry Halon
extinguishers for engine compartments and cabins. He advised that dry
chemicals would be useless under the cowl where air is moving rapidly. They
need calm conditions where the powder snuffs out the flames. Dry chem in the
cabin would be a very bad idea. He indicated that Transport Canada does not
want to see dry chemical fire extinguishers in the cockpit but he never did
say that it was illegal. I am still unclear on this point.
Fires that are out in windy areas can be snuffed out with a large volume of
Halon. The extinguishers must have very large outlet valves. Large jet
engines use very small containers that are usually spherical. My tour guide
showed me a bench full of them. They were only 8-10 inches round and held
Halon at 600 psi. They had two valves that were about 3/4" each. They were
opened by a small explosive charge called a squib (fired electrically).
Perhaps some of our airline pilot listers can add some thing here. (how many
per engine, effectiveness, ect...) These types of extinguishers begin at
$5000 (Canadian). They are surprisingly small and very lightweight.
Smaller aircraft can benefit from auto racing technology. Many race cars are
subject to the same airspeeds as our aircraft. This is what the sales rep
suggested for me. He said the idea is to blast the Halon into the font of
the engine in one big blast. The important thing is for the tank to have
large plumbing, bigger than a hand held extinguisher.
He gave me the address of a place in California that has an aviation
division and a race car division.
http://www.safecraft.com/
There are quite a few companies in the USA that sell kits for installation
in race cars that meet codes specified by the various racing organizations.
The average price is around $300 USD for a 3 lbs Halon kit that weighs
around 6 lbs. For a few dollars more you can get an aluminum tank that drops
the weight down to about 4.5 lbs.
So now I know that my interior extinguisher will be Halon. If I ever have to
use it I will have to remember to open air vents right after. Breathing is
just as important as flying the airplane. At this point I will be thinking
of a 3 lbs tank. The sales rep said there was even smaller canisters
available. I will reserve decision on the engine compartment until there has
been more discussion in this forum. If enough people feel that it could
actually put out a fire then I will probably feel better flying with one.
Regards,
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Break in Oil |
Straight Mineral oil for first 50 hours or until oil consumption stabilizes.
You need to do that so the rings will seat to the cylinders. Minimum oil
change interval IMHO would be at 10 hours , 25 hours and 50 hours.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
Painting
>From: "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)home.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Engine Break in Oil
>Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 22:28:17 -0500
>
>
>Lister's
>
>I am going to testing my engine very soon. A IO360 A1A (200hp).
>
>I had the engine O/H (new parts limits) & the engine was run in a test cell
>for 2.5 hours by the O/H shop.
>
>What would be the best oil for the initial 25 - 50 hours?
>
>I had the oil filter adapter installed.
>
>I have been told by some to use a straight mineral oil during this period.
>
>My Lycoming operator's manual is suggesting SAE 60 grade or 15W50 or 20W50.
>
>I am in Dallas Texas & it is hot 80+ degrees now.
>
>I also saw that Aeroshell is offering oil for purchase on their web page
>http://www.shell-lubricants.com/. Has anybody any comments of purchasing
>oil
>in this manner.
>
>Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks...Mark
>
>Mark Steffensen
>RV8A Dallas TX
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More Fed Paperwork |
Don,
Any A&P will be fine. Just go back to when the engine was overhauled.
Anyone can make the logbook entry but the A&P signature will probably hold
more weight with the inspector. Technically speaking once you install the
engine in your any experimental aircraft the engine AD's are no longer
applicable, but for your's and your loved ones safety I highly recommend
also checking them at your yearly condition inspection and seeing if there
are any that you feel need doing.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
More painting
>From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
>Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:39:43 -0500
>
>
>Mike:
>I been running the Ad's on my engine. It has been stored for 7 years.
>If an A&P (or does it take an AI?) logged "all" Ad's c/w to this date,
>will I need to just go back to that date in my search?
>
>Are the Ad's applicable on an Lycoming after the owner has decided to
>make it "non-certified"? I guess Mazda & chev & ford would be applicable
>too, if they had any.
>I was planning on wineing & dinning an A&P and keep it certified.
>
>Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
>**********************************************
> Randy,
> >
> > Best thing you could do is take your make, model, and S/N of the
> > engine and
> > prop to an IA at your local airport.
>
> > Mike Robertson> RV-8A> Painting
> >
> > >From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
> > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > >To:
> > >Subject: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
> > >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 15:59:21 -0500
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >I'm afraid that I need more help fellas,
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More Fed Paperwork |
okay, as an A&P let me interject something here: It
has been mentioned by several people that once you
hang a certified engine on an experimental a/c the
engine is no longer needed to be kept up "technically"
with the a.d's. This is NOT true the only way to make
your certified engine not "certified" is to remove the
data plate. However the applicable a.d's would still
apply to that particular engine and if the engine
owner decides not to comply with the a.d.'s I would
strongly encourage the owner to remove the data plate
to that engine. As long as the data plate is on the
engine it is a "certified engine" and technically it
must be kept up with all applicable a.d.'s as set
forth by the f.a.r's
Glenn
--- Mike Robertson wrote:
>
>
> Don,
>
> Any A&P will be fine. Just go back to when the
> engine was overhauled.
> Anyone can make the logbook entry but the A&P
> signature will probably hold
> more weight with the inspector. Technically
> speaking once you install the
> engine in your any experimental aircraft the engine
> AD's are no longer
> applicable, but for your's and your loved ones
> safety I highly recommend
> also checking them at your yearly condition
> inspection and seeing if there
> are any that you feel need doing.
>
> Mike Robertson
> RV-8A
> More painting
>
>
> >From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
> >Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:39:43 -0500
> >
>
> >
> >Mike:
> >I been running the Ad's on my engine. It has been
> stored for 7 years.
> >If an A&P (or does it take an AI?) logged "all"
> Ad's c/w to this date,
> >will I need to just go back to that date in my
> search?
> >
> >Are the Ad's applicable on an Lycoming after the
> owner has decided to
> >make it "non-certified"? I guess Mazda & chev &
> ford would be applicable
> >too, if they had any.
> >I was planning on wineing & dinning an A&P and keep
> it certified.
> >
> >Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx --
> dons6a(at)juno.com
> >**********************************************
> > Randy,
> > >
> > > Best thing you could do is take your make,
> model, and S/N of the
> > > engine and
> > > prop to an IA at your local airport.
> >
> > > Mike Robertson> RV-8A> Painting
> > >
> > > >From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
> > > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > > >To:
> > > >Subject: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
> > > >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 15:59:21 -0500
> > > >
> Pflanzer"
> > >
> > > >
> > > >I'm afraid that I need more help fellas,
> >
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel stop on RV-6A (and RV-8A) |
Scott-
Thanks for keeping an eye on us!
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark
>
> Scott McDaniels
> North Plains, OR
> These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
> reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjc <bjc(at)btconnect.com> |
| Subject: | Pilot Operating Handbook for the RV6 |
We have an excellent Pilot Operating Handbook for the RV6
on our web site at www.rv6.co.uk look under downloads on menu.
Barry Clifford
RV6 G-RVBC wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fritzt(at)bellsouth.net |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Extinguishers - very long |
I question the use of Halon in a cabin area. Halon puts out fires by depleting
the oxygen rapidly. Commercial aircraft do not use Halon in areas where
passengers are because of this very reason.
Fritz
Do not achive
Norman Hunger wrote:
>
> I went to Air-Sea Fire & Safety today. Got a nice long lecture and a tour
> from a sales rep there. This is a large outfit that supports all sizes of
> commercial activity at nearby Vancouver International Airport. All majors
> cities in North America a likely to have an outfit just like it serving the
> local airline traffic......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gardner, Douglas (GA01)" <douglas.gardner(at)honeywell.com> |
| Subject: | Instrument panel screws |
Airparts has those 1" long 1-800-800-3229 913 831-1780
I got them at SNF
Doug Gardner -8A Canopy still..
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com [mailto:Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com]
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 10:38 AM
Subject: RV-List: Instrument panel screws
Does anyone know of a good supply place for instrument panel screws?
I purchased an electric turn coordinator from Van's a few months back and
it's
face plate is much thicker than the rest of my instruments. I'm looking for
black brass phillips head screws 6-32 that are an inch long. I have tried
Aircraft Spruce and McMaster Carr with no luck. The longest they have is
3/4
inch in 6-32.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
- Jim Andrews
RV-8AQ ( panel & wiring )
Austin, Texas
N89JA (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Break in Oil |
| From: | Wes Hays <whays(at)juno.com> |
Mark,
In my Skyranch Engineering book, they recommend Phillips66, Type M,
multi-viscosity straight mineral oil. This is not to be confused with the
Phillips66 X/C with ashless dispersement. I had to special order it from
the Phillips distributor to get it.
I forget the exact chapter and page number, but there is a special
section which relates to oils, and also to breaking in the engine. This
is a great book. I would recommend it. Great info on the care and feeding
of Lycos.
Wes Hays,
Rotan, TX
RV6-A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More Fed Paperwork |
Another folk legend which is NOT true. No place in the FARs delineate this
procedure.There is also the FAR requirement for a metal data plate
regardless of whether it is on certified or non-certified.
You can remove the plate but then how do you know what parts and other
maintenance items to replace? What to order?
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: "glenn williams" <willig10(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 5:55 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
>
> okay, as an A&P let me interject something here: It
> has been mentioned by several people that once you
> hang a certified engine on an experimental a/c the
> engine is no longer needed to be kept up "technically"
> with the a.d's. This is NOT true the only way to make
> your certified engine not "certified" is to remove the
> data plate. However the applicable a.d's would still
> apply to that particular engine and if the engine
> owner decides not to comply with the a.d.'s I would
> strongly encourage the owner to remove the data plate
> to that engine. As long as the data plate is on the
> engine it is a "certified engine" and technically it
> must be kept up with all applicable a.d.'s as set
> forth by the f.a.r's
>
> Glenn
> --- Mike Robertson wrote:
> >
> >
> > Don,
> >
> > Any A&P will be fine. Just go back to when the
> > engine was overhauled.
> > Anyone can make the logbook entry but the A&P
> > signature will probably hold
> > more weight with the inspector. Technically
> > speaking once you install the
> > engine in your any experimental aircraft the engine
> > AD's are no longer
> > applicable, but for your's and your loved ones
> > safety I highly recommend
> > also checking them at your yearly condition
> > inspection and seeing if there
> > are any that you feel need doing.
> >
> > Mike Robertson
> > RV-8A
> > More painting
> >
> >
> > >From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
> > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > >Subject: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
> > >Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:39:43 -0500
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >Mike:
> > >I been running the Ad's on my engine. It has been
> > stored for 7 years.
> > >If an A&P (or does it take an AI?) logged "all"
> > Ad's c/w to this date,
> > >will I need to just go back to that date in my
> > search?
> > >
> > >Are the Ad's applicable on an Lycoming after the
> > owner has decided to
> > >make it "non-certified"? I guess Mazda & chev &
> > ford would be applicable
> > >too, if they had any.
> > >I was planning on wineing & dinning an A&P and keep
> > it certified.
> > >
> > >Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx --
> > dons6a(at)juno.com
> > >**********************************************
> > > Randy,
> > > >
> > > > Best thing you could do is take your make,
> > model, and S/N of the
> > > > engine and
> > > > prop to an IA at your local airport.
> > >
> > > > Mike Robertson> RV-8A> Painting
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
> > > > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > > > >To:
> > > > >Subject: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
> > > > >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 15:59:21 -0500
> > > > >
> > Pflanzer"
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >I'm afraid that I need more help fellas,
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ====
> Glenn Williams
> 8A
> A&P
>
> Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More Fed Paperwork |
you install an experimental data plate on the now
experimental engine
Glenn
--- Cy Galley wrote:
>
>
> Another folk legend which is NOT true. No place in
> the FARs delineate this
> procedure.There is also the FAR requirement for a
> metal data plate
> regardless of whether it is on certified or
> non-certified.
>
> You can remove the plate but then how do you know
> what parts and other
> maintenance items to replace? What to order?
>
> Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
> (Click here to visit our Club site at
> http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "glenn williams" <willig10(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 5:55 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
>
>
>
> >
> > okay, as an A&P let me interject something here:
> It
> > has been mentioned by several people that once you
> > hang a certified engine on an experimental a/c the
> > engine is no longer needed to be kept up
> "technically"
> > with the a.d's. This is NOT true the only way to
> make
> > your certified engine not "certified" is to remove
> the
> > data plate. However the applicable a.d's would
> still
> > apply to that particular engine and if the engine
> > owner decides not to comply with the a.d.'s I
> would
> > strongly encourage the owner to remove the data
> plate
> > to that engine. As long as the data plate is on
> the
> > engine it is a "certified engine" and technically
> it
> > must be kept up with all applicable a.d.'s as set
> > forth by the f.a.r's
> >
> > Glenn
> > --- Mike Robertson wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Don,
> > >
> > > Any A&P will be fine. Just go back to when the
> > > engine was overhauled.
> > > Anyone can make the logbook entry but the A&P
> > > signature will probably hold
> > > more weight with the inspector. Technically
> > > speaking once you install the
> > > engine in your any experimental aircraft the
> engine
> > > AD's are no longer
> > > applicable, but for your's and your loved ones
> > > safety I highly recommend
> > > also checking them at your yearly condition
> > > inspection and seeing if there
> > > are any that you feel need doing.
> > >
> > > Mike Robertson
> > > RV-8A
> > > More painting
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
> > > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > > >Subject: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
> > > >Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:39:43 -0500
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >Mike:
> > > >I been running the Ad's on my engine. It has
> been
> > > stored for 7 years.
> > > >If an A&P (or does it take an AI?) logged "all"
> > > Ad's c/w to this date,
> > > >will I need to just go back to that date in my
> > > search?
> > > >
> > > >Are the Ad's applicable on an Lycoming after
> the
> > > owner has decided to
> > > >make it "non-certified"? I guess Mazda & chev &
> > > ford would be applicable
> > > >too, if they had any.
> > > >I was planning on wineing & dinning an A&P and
> keep
> > > it certified.
> > > >
> > > >Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx --
> > > dons6a(at)juno.com
> > > >**********************************************
> > > > Randy,
> > > > >
> > > > > Best thing you could do is take your make,
> > > model, and S/N of the
> > > > > engine and
> > > > > prop to an IA at your local airport.
> > > >
> > > > > Mike Robertson> RV-8A> Painting
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Randy J. Pflanzer"
>
> > > > > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > > > > >To:
> > > > > >Subject: RV-List: More Fed Paperwork
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 15:59:21 -0500
> > > > > >
> > > Pflanzer"
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I'm afraid that I need more help fellas,
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > through
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> > >
> > > Matronics!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ====
> > Glenn Williams
> > 8A
> > A&P
> >
> > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> > http://invites.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Extinguishers - very long |
>
>I went to Air-Sea Fire & Safety today. Got a nice long lecture and a tour
>from a sales rep there. This is a large outfit that supports all sizes of
>commercial activity at nearby Vancouver International Airport. All majors
>cities in North America a likely to have an outfit just like it serving the
>local airline traffic.
<--stuff snipped-->
>
>Fires that are out in windy areas can be snuffed out with a large volume of
>Halon. The extinguishers must have very large outlet valves. Large jet
>engines use very small containers that are usually spherical. My tour guide
>showed me a bench full of them. They were only 8-10 inches round and held
>Halon at 600 psi. They had two valves that were about 3/4" each. They were
>opened by a small explosive charge called a squib (fired electrically).
>Perhaps some of our airline pilot listers can add some thing here. (how many
>per engine, effectiveness, ect...) These types of extinguishers begin at
>$5000 (Canadian). They are surprisingly small and very lightweight.
>
<--more stuff snipped-->
>Regards,
>Norman Hunger
>
The halon systems used to extinquish engine and APU fires in modern
aircraft work very well, once they are set up. The manufacturer does tests
at various flight conditions where they fire the extinguisher and measure
the halon concentration at different points around the engine or APU. They
sometimes have to change the design of the system to get the required halon
concentrations.
If you are going to use a halon extinguisher, you have to remember that
they kill the fire, but the fire will start back up again if the fuel is
still there, and there is an ignition source. So, the first thing to do is
to shut off the fuel shutoff valve, and do anything else that can be done
to get rid of fuel or ignition sources. Then you can fire the
extinguisher. If you do things in the wrong order, you could have the fire
start back up again.
The best thing you can do to prevent a fire in the first place is to do a
proper engine installation, with good quality, aviation hoses, etc. Follow
certified aircraft practices, get it looked at by several A&Ps, and
maintain it well. Don't use cheap stuff, don't use automotive stuff, and
don't get creative.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit floor, etc)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fire Extinguishers/Fuel Source Isolation |
Agreed - totally automatic operation might not be best.
As for an oil side installation, I don't exactly know how the oil EIV would
be installed. But I bet it could be devised - thinking "out of the box"
helps here! It would be a drag to have an oil fire and not be able to stop
it with the prop windmilling, pumping more oil to the fire. I wonder if
this may have been the case with Mr. Alexander's accident last July.
Good point about the main fuel cut off. It is a manual EIV.
I have a "heat" detector under the cowl of my plane. Two fusible links
wired in series which, when melted, will activate an LED in my panel (oh,
*&#@ light). The chances of two elements melting or breaking at once should
be slim. If it lights up, I have a problem.
Bryan Jones
-8 Ready for Test Flight
Pearland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Extinguishers - very long |
> I question the use of Halon in a cabin area.
Lets continue this vein. What do we use in the cabin? You can't use a dry
gas as it will be worse. The dust will get in your lungs for sure. Halon is
just a gas that can be exhaled. The cabin must be vented if used. I plan on
aiming the eyeball vent right at my face right after ever having to use a
Halon fire extinguisher in my cabin. Am I on the wrong track? The
proffesional fire outfit I was at yesterday told me that this is the only
way to go. Halon leaves no residue and does not impede vision like a dry
chemical would.
> Halon puts out fires by depleting
> the oxygen rapidly. Commercial aircraft do not use Halon in areas where
> passengers are because of this very reason.
>
> Fritz
> Do not achive
Can one of the airline guys comment here please, what are commercial
aircraft using in their cabins?
I asked Vans earlier this week and they said "no info on the fire
extinguisher". I might have confused them by asking about an under the cowl
installation.
Norman Hunger
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rv8 stab incidence |
I've got a question for those that have installed the horizontal stab on the
RV8.
There are 2 methods of measuring the incidence listed in the book and
plans--and they contradict each other! The manual says to put a 1/16 shim on
top of the rear spar and run the level across the front and rear spars to
level. (1/16 inch difference). The plans, however, say to put a 1/4 shim on
the rear spar, and a 1/8 shim on the front spar and run the level across
those (1/8 inch difference). Obviously, there is a 1/16 total difference
between the shim heights in the two methods.
My question is--which method is right? I'd like to finish drilling this thing
in place.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Cole" <edwardmcole(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Break in Oil |
Shell Oil has a free video titled "Care and Lubrication of your new or
overhauled engine ".
Its a 30 minute program that covers most questions.
ED Cole
RV6A
>
> Straight Mineral oil for first 50 hours or until oil consumption
stabilizes.
> You need to do that so the rings will seat to the cylinders. Minimum
oil
> change interval IMHO would be at 10 hours , 25 hours and 50 hours.
>
> Mike Robertson
> RV-8A
> Painting
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fire Extinguishers - very long |
-----Original Message-----
From: Norman Hunger [mailto:nhunger(at)sprint.ca]
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fire Extinguishers - very long
> I question the use of Halon in a cabin area.
Lets continue this vein. What do we use in the cabin? You can't use a dry
gas as it will be worse. The dust will get in your lungs for sure. Halon is
just a gas that can be exhaled. The cabin must be vented if used. I plan on
aiming the eyeball vent right at my face right after ever having to use a
Halon fire extinguisher in my cabin. Am I on the wrong track? The
proffesional fire outfit I was at yesterday told me that this is the only
way to go. Halon leaves no residue and does not impede vision like a dry
chemical would.
> Halon puts out fires by depleting
> the oxygen rapidly. Commercial aircraft do not use Halon in areas where
> passengers are because of this very reason.
>
> Fritz
> Do not achive
Can one of the airline guys comment here please, what are commercial
aircraft using in their cabins?
I asked Vans earlier this week and they said "no info on the fire
extinguisher". I might have confused them by asking about an under the cowl
installation.
Norman Hunger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quick Fuel Dump |
if I may ask. Why is the question being asked about a
fuel dump on the RV's? The fuel dump in my
understanding would be to lower your weight prior to
landing an overgross a/c such as an airliner, as it is
allowed to takeoff overweight but not land overweight.
In my opinion and I say again it is only my opinion
installing a fuel dump in an rv is adding extra weight
and asking for problems if you have to use the thing
in a real emergency anyway, here's why. Jet fuel will
not readily burn unless it is vaporized and you must
have a high heat source to make this fuel continue to
burn. (if you want to see an example take some jeta
jp-4 or diesel fuel pour some on the ground and try to
light it with a match)it will not ignite. If you do
the same thing with avgas or cargas it will ignite
right now. This explains the volutility of our gas
airplanes, that said let's assume your flying i.e.
taking off and have an engine out situation. You dump
the fuel and God forbid you crash land somewhere, all
it takes is one spark on avgas or cargas (mogas) to us
military types on the leftover fuel you just "dumped"
which is now on the fuselage or belly and you got
yourself an instant bonfire guess who the weenie roast
is? Guys I don't mean to be overly dramatic here it is
just that if you build your airplane as per Van's and
get the proper flight training Don't second guess the
design you should be able to fly safely without
worrying about a dump valve
>
> Has anyone looked into the fire retardant foam that
> is used in race cars? The stuff displaces very
> little fuel (3 -5 % volume). Would work with
> capacitive fuel senders.
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Extinguishers - very long |
SIR whatever you do DO NOT BE IN THE VICINITY OF HALON
when it goes off it is extremely cancerous. If you
have a fire in the cabin while in flight I would
suggest using a water type extinguisher they are green
in color and will not be harmful to you. Yes it will
hurt the avionics but you have insurance right?
Glenn
--- Norman Hunger wrote:
>
>
> > I question the use of Halon in a cabin area.
>
> Lets continue this vein. What do we use in the
> cabin? You can't use a dry
> gas as it will be worse. The dust will get in your
> lungs for sure. Halon is
> just a gas that can be exhaled. The cabin must be
> vented if used. I plan on
> aiming the eyeball vent right at my face right after
> ever having to use a
> Halon fire extinguisher in my cabin. Am I on the
> wrong track? The
> proffesional fire outfit I was at yesterday told me
> that this is the only
> way to go. Halon leaves no residue and does not
> impede vision like a dry
> chemical would.
>
> > Halon puts out fires by depleting
> > the oxygen rapidly. Commercial aircraft do not
> use Halon in areas where
> > passengers are because of this very reason.
> >
> > Fritz
> > Do not achive
>
> Can one of the airline guys comment here please,
> what are commercial
> aircraft using in their cabins?
>
> I asked Vans earlier this week and they said "no
> info on the fire
> extinguisher". I might have confused them by asking
> about an under the cowl
> installation.
>
> Norman Hunger
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fire Extinguishers - very long |
also on all of our jets we use either c02 or water in
the cabin no halon
Glenn
--- "Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
wrote:
> <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Norman Hunger [mailto:nhunger(at)sprint.ca]
> Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 9:32 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fire Extinguishers - very long
>
>
>
>
> > I question the use of Halon in a cabin area.
>
> Lets continue this vein. What do we use in the
> cabin? You can't use a dry
> gas as it will be worse. The dust will get in your
> lungs for sure. Halon is
> just a gas that can be exhaled. The cabin must be
> vented if used. I plan on
> aiming the eyeball vent right at my face right after
> ever having to use a
> Halon fire extinguisher in my cabin. Am I on the
> wrong track? The
> proffesional fire outfit I was at yesterday told me
> that this is the only
> way to go. Halon leaves no residue and does not
> impede vision like a dry
> chemical would.
>
> > Halon puts out fires by depleting
> > the oxygen rapidly. Commercial aircraft do not
> use Halon in areas where
> > passengers are because of this very reason.
> >
> > Fritz
> > Do not achive
>
> Can one of the airline guys comment here please,
> what are commercial
> aircraft using in their cabins?
>
> I asked Vans earlier this week and they said "no
> info on the fire
> extinguisher". I might have confused them by asking
> about an under the cowl
> installation.
>
> Norman Hunger
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pete Hudes <phudes(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Extinguishers - very long |
The airlines use Halon and water extinguishers in the cabin. There is a
big difference between the volume of air in a B737 and a RV. If you
discharge a Halon extingusher in an airliner, you are concentrating on
the fire and displacing a small amount of the O2 in the cabin.
Pete Hudes
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Hughes <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Extinguishers |
Hey Guys,
At United in our 737's we have two types of fire extinguishers in the cabin.
There are portable Halon extinguishers and water extinguishers. The water is
(obviously) for Class A type fires, paper, etc. The Halon for electrical,
chemical, etc. There is a Halon extinguisher in the cockpit, and there is a
Halon bottle mounted above the trash bins in each lav. It is small, and
spherical and has a heat plug that bursts if it gets hot, directing the Halon
down in to the trash bin. That's so that if someone is smoking and tries to
throw it in the trash..... I believe in the 80's there was a (Air Canada???)
DC-9 that burned to the ground with a lav fire after they got it quickly to the
nearest airport. This may have been in response to that. If I were to go back
to fight a fire, I would grab a Halon. They are simply more effective against
a larger range of burning materials. I have shot them both at real fires in
training, and the water one seemed a little silly, but would be appropriate for
a small fire. I know Halon is harmful but the smoke given off by burning
plastics and carpets, etc. might tend to be the real killer. We have two
PBE's (personal breathing equip) that are plastic hoods you unfold over your
head that has a canister that provided 15 minutes of oxygen and it would
protect you from the heat and smoke if you were fighting a big fire. I just
checked the flight manual, and the checklists for fighting Lav fires does
direct you to put the PBE on before you go, so that would make breathing Halon
a moot point. After any cabin smoke, fumes or odors are observed, you
ventilate the the cabin with max airflow to purge the fumes. We are taught
that the passenger oxygen masks are not any good with smoke or fumes, because
they are rebreathers and do use some ambient air.
Some question about the engine and APU fire bottles..... APU has one Halon
bottle that is 540 psi. It's in the tail next to the APU. The engines have
two bottles mounted in the wheel wells and are 760 psi. Before you discharge a
bottle, you pull a fire handle that shuts off the engine, kills the fuel (in
two places) closes the hydraulic valves, and isolates the electrics and
pneumatics from that engine. Then you can twist the fire handle right or
left. The direction fires one bottle or another. If the fire doesn't go out,
then you are directed to fire the second bottle after a period of time. The
previous person was correct, there are squibs that fire the bottles. We now
have the "ValuJet" fix installed on about half our jets. That is a cargo fire
detection system. It has two Halon bottles. If you get a cargo fire
indication in-flight, you fire the first bottle, which saturates the area. If
it persists, the second bottle is "metered" to provide up to 45 minutes of slow
Halon release to contain the fire until you make it to the ground. I"m not
being a smart *** about calling it the ValuJet fix... it was in direct response
to that tragedy.
Personally, I don't plan on putting anything like a Halon bottle up front on my
RV. I will have firesleeves and a way to shut off the fuel, but I doubt I'd be
able to devise a way to close off the airflow under the cowl that would allow
the Halon to do it's job. I am going to have a Halon extinguisher in the
cockpit. If I ever need it, I'll just ventilate as best I can after the fire
is out.
Keith Hughes
RV-6 Tanks
Parker, CO
Norman Hunger wrote:
> Can one of the airline guys comment here please, what are commercial
> aircraft using in their cabins?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Commercial Aircraft Fire Extinguishers |
Commercial aircraft do not use Halon in areas where
> > passengers are because of this very reason.
> >
> > Fritz
I write the portion of the flight operations manual for the Boeing 747 and
777 airplanes that contain the emergency equipment locations on the flight
deck and in passenger cabin. Every customer for these airplanes have Halon
extinguishers on the flight deck and throughout the passenger cabin. Most
also have water extinguishers as well.
Mike Robbins
RV8Q 591 mounting empennage this long weekend
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
Anyone thought of putting water drain holes in the bottom of these RVs?
Can't find any mention of them in the manual.
Mike Robbins
RV8Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Quick Fuel Dump |
Several folks have had good thoughts on a fuel dump mechanism, but it seems
to me that there are extremely few instances when you would:
1) Want to dump your fuel.
AND
2) Have the time to take that action.
Most accidents happen in the takeoff/landing phase. In those situations, the
problems tend to be either loss of control or engine failure.
In the case of loss of control, I'd suggest that the pilot will be fully
occupied regaining control of the airplane, and doesn't have time to open a
fuel dump. Also, when on or near the ground, your fuel dump might be THE
source of fuel for a fire.
If you have an engine failure in the takeoff/landing phase, you're probably
trying to 1) fly the airplane then 2) try to get a restart. If you have
enough altitude to do both of these things, then dump fuel, then you probably
have enough altitude to glide back to the field.
Other (too common) accidents in our airplanes come from low altitude
maneuvering and from people pulling wings off of airplanes. The fuel dump
wouldn't help in these situations.
When might a fuel dump help? If you're at relatively high altitude and have
a complete engine or prop failure. There is no downside to getting rid of
your fuel in this situation. However, if the engine just stops and I'm not
sure it is dead and gone, I'm trying for a restart all the way to my
successful off-field landing. If I dump the fuel, I know I'll never get a
restart.
In my opinion, there is only one other time you might need a fuel dump: If
you have an inflight fire that escapes the engine compartment. If the fire
doesn't escape the engine compartment, you simply turn the fuel valve to off,
and if it is a gasoline fire, it will go out pretty fast.
My $.02 worth,
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Taildraggers(at)aol.com |
Doug: At BOI, try Verde Aviation on the SW side of field. Nice people.
Good luck. Doug Sykes Taildraggers(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
The question of quickly dumping fuel is part of a discussion on improving
the safety of RV's. New and different methods for removing the flammable
materials from an airplane committed to making a forced landing improve the
survivability of that landing. I believe we all agree that building right
and safely in the first place is the best idea. However, backup plans are
always good when flying in a plane. Do you wear safety belts when flying?
How about purchasing insurance? Do you expect to crash?
This is just an exchange of ideas in an attempt to improve. Improvement
can't happen without change.
Bryan Jones
-8 Ready for Test Flight
Pearland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot Operating Handbook for the RV6 |
-----Original Message-----
From: bjc <bjc(at)btconnect.com>
Date: Saturday, May 27, 2000 6:52 AM
Subject: RV-List: Pilot Operating Handbook for the RV6
>
>We have an excellent Pilot Operating Handbook for the RV6
>
>on our web site at www.rv6.co.uk look under downloads on menu.
>
>
>Barry Clifford
>
>RV6 G-RVBC wings
>
The POH is very detailed and useful.
I'd like to add a word of caution to the data on page 64 of the POH and
suggest that it be edited. There the torque specs for AN-3 bolts are listed
as 30-40 inch-lbs. The correct range is 20-25 inch-lbs, as listed in
AC43.13 1A page 150 (under heading of 10-32 fine threads).
Generally bolts are torqued to about 80% of yield strength. An AN-3 bolt
torqued to 40 inch pounds may be weakened. Be careful in torquing AN3-3
bolts -- almost everyone overtorques them if they don't use a torque wrench.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | ACI Stall Warning Device |
Anyone have any first hand experience with the ACI stall warning device? It
is described at http://homepages.which.net/~aci.stw/
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
I drilled a few 1/8" holes in the bulkheads where they meet the bottom
skins. This will allow moisture to run down the bottom and exit out the
tailwheel area. Not sure what the tri-gear guys are doing.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6 fuse
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael J. Robbins <kitfox(at)gte.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 10:51 AM
Subject: RV-List: Drain Holes
>
> Anyone thought of putting water drain holes in the bottom of these RVs?
> Can't find any mention of them in the manual.
>
> Mike Robbins
> RV8Q
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcbraem(at)home.com.with.ESMTP (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) |
| Subject: | Fire Extinguishers and Quick Fuel Dump |
All--
To those thinking of using a Halon cockpit system for fire, let me
finish Kevin Horton's statement that Halon kills the fire by displacing
oxygen--that is also how it can kill you. If you can stay alive in a
closed space Halon environment so can the fire. Occupational,
Industrial and Environmental Toxicology., M. Greenburg, MD, MPH, Mosby
Books, 1997, pg. 190. states "Because of their potential as cardiac
sensitizers (read: fatal arrhythmias) and central nervous system
depressants (read: unconscious), as well as documented battlefield and
fire fighting fatalities, use of halons has been curtailed in most
military systems where confined spaces exist. Additionally, exposure of
halons to temperatures above 1800 degrees F results in the production of
the hydrogen halides, HCl, HF and HBr, all of which are extremely
irritating to the respiratory tract (read: pulmonary edema). It is
also quite likely that that phosgene can form by the generation of free
radicals found in high-heat fires."
36. Lerman Y, et al: Fatal accidental inhalation of Halon 1211, Hum.
Exp. Toxicol 10:125, 1991
57. Smith DG, Harris DJ: Human exposure to Halon 1301 during simulated
aircraft cabin fires, Aerospace Medicine, Feb. 1, 1973, 198.
In the mid-'80's, the Navy banned the use of Halon 1301 for a while but
could not find a suitable replacement so they resumed using a
reformulated version under
very strict guidelines--NOT to be used in enclosed spaces/areas when
personnel are in the same space/area unless the personnel are equipped
with closed-system breathing equipment. (personal experience: BC Braem,
LCDR, USNR MC, 1984)
I must admit that I am stumped by the rather cavalier attitude of the
"professional" fire control people that Norman Hunger visited. Maybe
they equate fire fighting as making the fire a little smaller rather
than extinguishing it?
Also, I wouldn't try the trick of showing your friends that "jet fuel"
can't burn on it's own. JP-4 is 35% avgas and will burn quite nicely,
thank you. JP-5/JP-8 are kersosenes with additives that need a "wick"
to burn outside of its engine.
On a lighter note, there is a need for a quick dump system for RV's, in
one special case: There have been venturi powered bladder relief tubes
around for years
but I have never heard of one being used as a potential fuel drain,
but...why not? The F-111 has the fuel dump vent in between and towards the
aft of the engines and when the pilot dumps fuel with the 'burners on
there's a blowtorch type flame that's about twice as long as the
airplane. It's done as a "courtesy" fly by when our boys go up to
cross-train with our buds in the Great White North's Maritime Provinces,
followed by a game of "Beer Hunter" (one of six randomly shaken beer
cans that are held to the side of one's head when opened), then copious
amounts of salmon, lobster and mussels. An RV so rigged would look
great at Oshkosh--maybe the vented fuel could be ignited with a modified
airshow smoke unit.
Boyd
RV S6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Fire Extinguisher Do's And Don'ts |
Here are a few points that have become the opinion of this one RV builder. I
think The List would benefit if it heard more comments on the points I raise
from both commercial pilots and and any one in the fire extinguisher
buisness. I will wait patiently for the Monday morning crowd to comment as I
suspect they will be a day late this weekend. I suspect that many listers
aren't here on weekends as they only have email at work. Monday mornings are
always busy.
RV4, RV8, and Rocket aircraft - The fire extinguisher must be mounted in the
FRONT COCKPIT in easy reach of the pilot without undoing his/her seat belt.
Never install in the rear seat area unless you have another one for the
front. If there is any doubts on this one I urge you to contact Vans for the
skinny. They have a strong opinion on this one.
Light research on the remote operated Halon engine compartment fire
extinguishers from the auto racing industry has immediatly raised a few
points. They need to be checked regularily. I have only briefly looked into
the racing crowd but I quickly learned two failure points. First the
aluminum line is subject to snap right up against the bottle. I've noticed
that steel lines are an option with some manufactors. Second I read some
news group stuff where the pull cable had rusted solid and seized. No info
on whether this car was stored outside or not. It might have been
transported on an open car trailer in the rainy Northwest or the cable might
just be pure junk. If I was going to do this (still undecided) I would go
for the aviation stuff from Safecraft. I would ask about the materials in
their pull cable kit. Goto http://www.safecraft.com/
Dry chemical fire extinguishers don't work under the cowl of a flying
aircraft. If any one has a dry chemical fire extinguisher (they are the
cheapest) mounted on a wall at home or in the shop they should remember to
remove it and give it a shake once a year. It will otherwise settle and
become slightly less effective even when still fully charged.
Any extinguisher used under the cowl of an aircraft has to have a large
outlet. It has to be able to empty it's contents very quickly. Normal hand
held fire extinguishers do not have the flow to help under the cowl of a
flying aircraft. My first thoughts on this subject were to plumb a regular
fire extinguisher into the engine compartment. I am now convinced that this
would be useless. The extinguisher has to be designed for an "under the
hood" application.
If I did have a bottle that fired under the cowl, I would have a procedure
for firing it. It won't be effective unless it is operated in the right
sequence. First - shut off fuel while turning for the nearest feild,
Second - shut off master electrical, Third - close any cabin heat or vent
that origionates from the engine, Fourth - fire the bottle, Fifth - land the
airplane. This would be the "Engine Fire Checklist" and would be subject to
revision. This forum would be a good place to develop a proper checklist.
Most RV builders are getting cabin ventilation from either NACA vents from
the exterior or ducting high pressure engine cooling air right off the rear
baffle in the engine compartment. The outside venting seems to offer the
most options after a fire to the pilot. The rear baffle guys should have a
way to shut off the flow at the fire wall with a stainless steel heat box.
These aircraft should probably not use a Halon extinguisher in the cabin as
they won't be able to vent afterwards unless they pop the conopy. I do not
know what type of fire extinguisher those aircraft should use in their
cabins. It would seem that sourcing vent air from outside the aircraft would
be considerably better should there ever be a fire under the cowl. I vote
for the NACA vents.
Fact: Boeing installs Halon fire extinguishers in the cabins of their
aircraft. One recent post on this list claimed that commercial aircraft do
not use Halon around passengers. This has been discredited by subsequent
informed people posting real data. Gotta love this list.
The best way to avoid an engine fire is to build properly but I would like
to point out that there are still some rare and uncommon ways for a fire to
start under the cowl. Catastopic engine failures can happen with
unpredictable consequences. A bird strike while flying could sever fuel
and/or oil lines. I live on the West coast where large ducks, geese, eagles,
hawks, falcons, gulls, ect... are common. I don't want to sound too much
like a pessimist but I do want to point out that danger exists and the
safest airplane will plan for it.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 5/27/00 9:20:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kitfox(at)gte.net
writes:
<< Anyone thought of putting water drain holes in the bottom of these RVs?
Can't find any mention of them in the manual.
Mike Robbins
RV8Q >>
I drilled my fusilage just ahead of each bulkhead just to be sure it
drained. Fred LaForge RV-4 140 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Graves <rlgbee(at)fnbnet.net> |
I am in dire need of pin out info for a Narco Escort II radio.
Help if you can.
R. Graves
RV-4 flying 550 hours
South Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Baker" <gtbaker(at)bright.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Extinguisher Do's And Don'ts |
Hi Norman,
You and others raise very good points about the use of Halon. At
Continental, we are told that, prior to using Halon in our 737's, we need to
don the PBE (Protective Breathing Equipment). Keith Hughes gave a good
description of that. I have heard (don't have 1st hand knowledge of this) of
a flight attendant who used a Halon bottle to put out a fire in a galley
oven. She did not have a PBE on and shot the Halon directly into the oven
while standing fairly close to, and in front of, the oven, which is located
at about eye level. The story goes that the Halon extinguished the fire, but
also extinguished her for a few moments, because of the ricochet effect of
the Halon back into her face. She did survive; she was knocked out for a
minute or two, though. Just another to think of. Many people have already
brought up the point to make sure the cabin is ventilated as quickly as
possible.
Having had a friend die in an airborne cockpit fire, I will be installing
most likely Halon in my cockpit. I will also investigate the market for the
existence of a PBE for general aviation, as well as make sure the cockpit is
properly ventilated.
Gary Baker
RV-6 (Working on wings)
N927MG (Reserved)
Medina, OH
>
> Most RV builders are getting cabin ventilation from either NACA vents from
> the exterior or ducting high pressure engine cooling air right off the
rear
> baffle in the engine compartment. The outside venting seems to offer the
> most options after a fire to the pilot. The rear baffle guys should have a
> way to shut off the flow at the fire wall with a stainless steel heat box.
> These aircraft should probably not use a Halon extinguisher in the cabin
as
> they won't be able to vent afterwards unless they pop the conopy. I do not
> know what type of fire extinguisher those aircraft should use in their
> cabins. It would seem that sourcing vent air from outside the aircraft
would
> be considerably better should there ever be a fire under the cowl. I vote
> for the NACA vents.
>
> Fact: Boeing installs Halon fire extinguishers in the cabins of their
> aircraft. One recent post on this list claimed that commercial aircraft do
> not use Halon around passengers. This has been discredited by subsequent
> informed people posting real data. Gotta love this list.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Johannson Seat Installation - RV8/A |
Has anyone installed their Johannson seat, yet? (probably spelled Jon's name
wrong - sorry)
Thanks,
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
Niantic, CT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 5/27/00 9:15:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kitfox(at)gte.net
writes:
<< Anyone thought of putting water drain holes in the bottom of these RVs? >>
Absolutely. I've got drains behind all of the bulkheads (6A).
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rv8 stab incidence |
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
The last RVATOR addresses this (of course I received my copy a week after I
used the wrong dimensions).
1/16" difference is correct. The manual is right, the drawing is wrong.
Van now say to use a 1/4" shim on the fwd spar and a 5/16" shim on the aft
spar.
I asked Van's about how I should fix mine, they recommended leaving it
alone. They said many have to adjust the angle after flight testing anyway.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (finish kit)
Vienna, VA
----------
>From: RKOdell(at)aol.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: rv8 stab incidence
>Date: Sat, May 27, 2000, 11:35 AM
>
>
> I've got a question for those that have installed the horizontal stab on the
> RV8.
>
> There are 2 methods of measuring the incidence listed in the book and
> plans--and they contradict each other! The manual says to put a 1/16 shim on
> top of the rear spar and run the level across the front and rear spars to
> level. (1/16 inch difference). The plans, however, say to put a 1/4 shim on
> the rear spar, and a 1/8 shim on the front spar and run the level across
> those (1/8 inch difference). Obviously, there is a 1/16 total difference
> between the shim heights in the two methods.
>
> My question is--which method is right? I'd like to finish drilling this thing
> in place.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Extinguishers - very long |
willig10(at)yahoo.com writes:
> SIR whatever you do DO NOT BE IN THE VICINITY OF HALON
> when it goes off it is extremely cancerous.
I think he means the Halon is "carcinogenic;" able to make YOU cancerous.
Whether Halon carries that risk, I cannot say.
Why not carry the Evacu-8 smoke hood system as endorsed by AvWeb and sold by
Sporty's, so that Halon and/or smoke in the cockpit are not so likely to
overcome the occupants?
-Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Lycoming Hollow Crankshaft AD 98-02-08 |
Am I correct in reading this AD for O-320 and O-360 fixed-pitch prop engines
regarding inspection of the hollow portion of the crank?
I read it to say that unless the engine is disassembled for some reason,
that you can wait until 1000 hours Time In Service from last overhaul to
make a visual check, and if no pits are found, then every five years
thereafter for another visual inspection?
RV-6A Flying
Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Light under the tires |
"Ralph Krongold" <ralphk@in-inc.com>,
"rv-list" , "Tom DeMarino"
Hi all,
After 4.5 years (non quick build) Van's RV-6 , S/N 22923 became N515L and took
to the air on Saturday afternoon. The SoCal Wing came by for breakfast (7 RV's
and 2 Lancairs), and inspected and the airplane. The biggest question was:
Well..when you gonna fly? The responce: Just as soon as you guys leave! After
they did, I did.
I can't begin to express the feeling......Just Wow!
First, I'd like to thank my parents, who were there for me the whole time, and
which I couldn't have done it without them.
Second, I'd like to thank Mike Seager, who without him, I probably would have my
airplane in a ball right now.....Thanks Mike!
A few details:
0-360/Sensenich
empty: 1044
flight qualities: great!
flaws: (besides the pilot) heavy left wing and need of right rudder trim (set staight).
emotions.......thru the roof
And thanks to all on the list for years of.....well, just everything. It really
kept me modivated.
It's all worth it....KEEP POUNDING THOSE RIVETS!!
More details later,
Laird RV-6 N515L FLYING!!!! (that really sounds good)
SoCal
Yeepeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Hughes <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Extinguisher Do's And Don'ts |
Gary,
I think I saw some advertised in Sporty's. Also in the Crew Gear catalogue.
Not sure of the quality, though.
Keith Hughes
RV-6 tanks
Parker, CO
Gary Baker wrote:
> I will also investigate the market for the
> existence of a PBE for general aviation,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tracy R Reed <treed(at)ultraviolet.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Extinguishers - very long |
> willig10(at)yahoo.com writes:
> > SIR whatever you do DO NOT BE IN THE VICINITY OF HALON
> > when it goes off it is extremely cancerous.
> Why not carry the Evacu-8 smoke hood system as endorsed by AvWeb and sold by
> Sporty's, so that Halon and/or smoke in the cockpit are not so likely to
> overcome the occupants?
I'm not sure about the claims of Halon being carcinogenic but at work we use
Inergen and it definitely won't overcome the occupants at sea level. Not sure
about at high altitudes. Anything that dilutes the air at altitude will cause
problems.
--
Tracy Reed http://www.ultraviolet.org
"Please don't tell my parents I work for Microsoft. They still think I'm a
bartender in a gay brothel." -- Usenet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rv8 stab incidence |
Check the last RVator. It has the proper shim and angles.
>From: RKOdell(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: rv8 stab incidence
>Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 10:35:12 EDT
>
>
>I've got a question for those that have installed the horizontal stab on
>the
>RV8.
>
>There are 2 methods of measuring the incidence listed in the book and
>plans--and they contradict each other! The manual says to put a 1/16 shim
>on
>top of the rear spar and run the level across the front and rear spars to
>level. (1/16 inch difference). The plans, however, say to put a 1/4 shim on
>the rear spar, and a 1/8 shim on the front spar and run the level across
>those (1/8 inch difference). Obviously, there is a 1/16 total difference
>between the shim heights in the two methods.
>
>My question is--which method is right? I'd like to finish drilling this
>thing
>in place.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Schneider" <schneider.larry(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Break in Oil |
The problem with on line oil purchases is the cost of delivery. I have found
that the most reasonable price is from the local petroleum products dealer.
look in the yellow pages.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shelby Smith" <shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Break in Oil
>
> I am just finishing up the breakin on a O-360 - about 60 hours now. I had
> Shell SAE100 to begin with and during the winter switched to SAE 80.
Bought
> the plane with about 20 hrs on the engine and really never experienced
much
> oil consumption. don't have an oil filter so have been changing the oil
> every trwent hours or so. Just put in first round of Shell 15-50.
>
> I am pretty sure Lycoming recommends mineral oil to begin with.
>
>
> --
> Shelby Smith
> shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com
> RV6A - Skinning Fuselage - 200HP
> N95EB - reserved
>
> ----------
> >From: "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)home.com>
> >To:
> >Subject: RV-List: Engine Break in Oil
> >Date: Thu, May 25, 2000, 10:28 PM
> >
>
> >
> > Lister's
> >
> > I am going to testing my engine very soon. A IO360 A1A (200hp).
> >
> > I had the engine O/H (new parts limits) & the engine was run in a test
cell
> > for 2.5 hours by the O/H shop.
> >
> > What would be the best oil for the initial 25 - 50 hours?
> >
> > I had the oil filter adapter installed.
> >
> > I have been told by some to use a straight mineral oil during this
period.
> >
> > My Lycoming operator's manual is suggesting SAE 60 grade or 15W50 or
20W50.
> >
> > I am in Dallas Texas & it is hot 80+ degrees now.
> >
> > I also saw that Aeroshell is offering oil for purchase on their web page
> > http://www.shell-lubricants.com/. Has anybody any comments of purchasing
oil
> > in this manner.
> >
> > Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks...Mark
> >
> > Mark Steffensen
> > RV8A Dallas TX
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Fwd Elevator Stop |
I can't quite see how the F-811D Forward Elevator Stop is installed. It
looks like it goes underneath the F-819 aft deck, but I can't see how it
will with the F-811C angle in the way.
Also, in adjusting the angle of incidence of the horizontal stab, I have to
put a 3/8 spacer under the rear spar to get it level with the fuselage. Has
anyone else had to raise it that much? The manual calls out a 3/16 spacer.
I'm using Van's corrected numbers of 1/4 and 5/16 for the spacers under the
level.
Mike Robbins
RV8Q 591 doing the empennage this weekend
Sammamish, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | RV Flyin at Scappose |
Can someone tell me the date of the flying at Scappose, OR?
Thanks.
Mike Robbins
RV8Q
Sammamish, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
Thanks all for the drain hole inputs. Guess I can still punch some in my
already assembled QB if I'm real careful.
Mike Robbins
RV8Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Light under the tires |
Congrats Laird!
We'll all be awaiting photos ... especially of that panel. ;-)
James
----- Original Message -----
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
"Ralph Krongold" ; "rv-list" ;
"Tom DeMarino"
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 11:37 PM
Subject: RV-List: Light under the tires
>
> Hi all,
>
> After 4.5 years (non quick build) Van's RV-6 , S/N 22923 became N515L and
took to the air on Saturday afternoon. The SoCal Wing came by for breakfast
(7 RV's and 2 Lancairs), and inspected and the airplane. The biggest
question was: Well..when you gonna fly? The responce: Just as soon as
you guys leave! After they did, I did.
>
> I can't begin to express the feeling......Just Wow!
>
> First, I'd like to thank my parents, who were there for me the whole time,
and which I couldn't have done it without them.
>
> Second, I'd like to thank Mike Seager, who without him, I probably would
have my airplane in a ball right now.....Thanks Mike!
>
> A few details:
> 0-360/Sensenich
> empty: 1044
> flight qualities: great!
> flaws: (besides the pilot) heavy left wing and need of right rudder trim
(set staight).
> emotions.......thru the roof
>
> And thanks to all on the list for years of.....well, just everything. It
really kept me modivated.
>
> It's all worth it....KEEP POUNDING THOSE RIVETS!!
>
> More details later,
>
> Laird RV-6 N515L FLYING!!!! (that really sounds good)
> SoCal
>
> Yeepeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Flyin at Scappose |
> Can someone tell me the date of the flying at Scappose, OR?
The Ninth annual Northwest RV Fly-in will be held on June 24 this year. Get
all the details at http://www.edt.com/homewing/flyin00.html.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~75 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Platenuts for horiz stab attach |
Listers:
I am finishing the final assembly of the HS and the VS. The bolts going through
the angle and longeron, holding the front spar of the HS to the fuselage are very
hard to get to. The aft skin (F419) only has the one lightening hole and with
large hands, well it isn't fun. I was wondering if platenuts attached to the
bottom angle could be used. Then a socket and an extension and it would really
be easy. Will the platenut be strong enough. It calls for an AN bolt (4).
Anyone use this method to simplify removal of the empenage? It would sure ruin
my day if those 4 platenuts stripped out at once. Ouch.
Dave Aronson
RV4 N504RV
Enging to hang next
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Hollow Crankshaft AD 98-02-08 |
John:
I have the 98-02-08 Crankshaft corrosion AD in front of me. The Amended
version, 39-10291, Docket 94-ANE-44 states:
NOTE 1: (b). For engines shipped new from Textron Lycoming after December 31,
1984, and that have never been overhauled, or any engine remanufactured or
overhauled and that has accumulated less than 1,00 hours TIS since remanufacture
or overhaul, visually inspect the ID of the crankshaft for corrosion pits, at
the earliest occurence of any event specified in subparagraph (3) of this
paragraph, and in accordance with Textron Lycoming MSB No. 505 dated December 1,
1997.
Sub paragraph (3) states: (i) The next engine overhaul or disassembly. (ii)
Within 10 years of the original shipping date or 6 months from the effective
date of this AD, which ever occurs later. (iii) Within 1,000 hours TIS since
remanufacture or overhaul, or 6 months from the effective date of this AD, which
ever occurs later.
Your assumption is correct!
Dave Aronson
RV4 N504RV
John wrote:
>
> Am I correct in reading this AD for O-320 and O-360 fixed-pitch prop engines
> regarding inspection of the hollow portion of the crank?
>
> I read it to say that unless the engine is disassembled for some reason,
> that you can wait until 1000 hours Time In Service from last overhaul to
> make a visual check, and if no pits are found, then every five years
> thereafter for another visual inspection?
>
> RV-6A Flying
> Salida, CO
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com> |
| Subject: | re: HALON fire extinguishers |
One minor correction to the statements about how HALON extinguishes fires: it
does not work by displacing oxygen. Instead, it interferes with the chemical
reaction that occurs in the combustion process. PKP (purple K powder) works on
the same principal.
I also noticed some reference to CO2 and hazards from it. CO2 does work by displacing
oxygen. However, it has no holding capabilities, and as has been pointed
out by others, the fire will reignite if fuel and an ignition source are present
when the CO2 runs out. But it's extremely unlikely that you could knock
yourself out by
spraying CO2 in an RV cockpit, especially with an extinguisher of the size you'd
be likely to carry in the cockpit.
Semper Fi
John
Finished HS, now working on the VS...waiting for the wing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Platenuts for horiz stab attach |
I would not feel comfortable with platenuts. I have already mounted my
HS and drilled one bolt to close to get a wrench on it. Van said to use
a socket head cap screw which I found at a motorcycle shop. I am
considering putting a access hole in the side skin in front of F410 for
inspection and access to the bolts. Have not talked to Van to see if
this would affect the strength of the fuse.
Earl, working on canopy of RV4
David Aronson wrote:
>
>
> Listers:
>
> I am finishing the final assembly of the HS and the VS. The bolts going through
> the angle and longeron, holding the front spar of the HS to the fuselage are
very
> hard to get to. The aft skin (F419) only has the one lightening hole and with
> large hands, well it isn't fun. I was wondering if platenuts attached to the
> bottom angle could be used. Then a socket and an extension and it would really
> be easy. Will the platenut be strong enough. It calls for an AN bolt (4).
> Anyone use this method to simplify removal of the empenage? It would sure ruin
> my day if those 4 platenuts stripped out at once. Ouch.
>
> Dave Aronson
> RV4 N504RV
> Enging to hang next
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Extinguishers - very long |
writes:
>
>> I question the use of Halon in a cabin area.
>
>Lets continue this vein. What do we use in the cabin? You can't use a
>dry
>gas as it will be worse. The dust will get in your lungs for sure.
>Halon is
>just a gas that can be exhaled. The cabin must be vented if used. I
>plan on
>aiming the eyeball vent right at my face right after ever having to
>use a
>Halon fire extinguisher in my cabin. Am I on the wrong track? The
>proffesional fire outfit I was at yesterday told me that this is the
>only
>way to go. Halon leaves no residue and does not impede vision like a
>dry
>chemical would.
>
>> Halon puts out fires by depleting
>> the oxygen rapidly.
This is just my opinion but:
Before Halon came into existence there were three ways to put out a fire.
1. Take away oxygen.
2. Take away heat.
3. Take away flammable material.
Then Halon created a 4th way.
Halon puts out a fire by interrupting (at the molecular level) the
ability of fire to start. Not by removing oxygen.
I have 'serviced' fire extinguishers for 15 years. My experience tells me
that I can't breath a cloud of dry chemical powder. I choke and eyes
sting. I can't tell when I breath Halon, no smell. A dry chemical
extinguisher of the same weight can put out a fire 10 times that of a
Halon extinguisher. In still air, Halon evaporates quickly after the fire
is out, so you must put the fire 100% out for sure or it will come back.
Dry Chem. hangs around and keeps the fire smothered. (The granules are
designed so that some float some fall on fire)
Of course, if you do replace all the oxygen from your breathing space you
will die in short order but the fire will be out before you have
difficulty of that sort. When you next see a Halon Extinguisher, you will
note there are no Scull and Crossbones type of label. The warning tells
you of the toxic by-products created by the fire itself. NO WARNINGS of
'do not breath' type.
In all cases, a 100 mph wind would dissipate extinguishing agents.
Commercial aircraft do not use Halon in areas
>where
>> passengers are because of this very reason.
>>
>> Fritz
>> Do not achive
>
>Can one of the airline guys comment here please, what are commercial
>aircraft using in their cabins?
>
>I asked Vans earlier this week and they said "no info on the fire
>extinguisher". I might have confused them by asking about an under the
>cowl
>installation.
>
>Norman Hunger
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Product Review - Knight Upholstry Products |
Installed my Knight seats yesterday. They are outstanding. They seem
very light and comfortable and look excellent. I got them about two weeks
after ordering them.
Dave Beizer
RV 6a Final assembly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donnelly.d(at)mindspring.com |
| Subject: | RV4 Project For Sale |
Regrettably, my nearly complete RV4 (airframe) must go. Divorce, kids, work,
relocation, finances, etc. necessitate the sale of my 3-year labor of love.
Late model kit #3977 has longer gear legs, 2-piece wheel pants, fiberglass
(VAN'S) gear leg fairings, electric elevator trim, electric flaps, manual
aileron trim, Phlogiston spar, and many other extras.
No engine, avionics, instrumentation or paint. All parts veri-primed prior
to assembly. Craftsmanship is very good. All metal work complete, wings not
yet mated to fuselage (no space). Cowling not fitted (no engine). Most
fiberglass work is complete. Canopy is mounted but some work remains on the
fairings. Roll bar was mounted 1-1/2" rearward to accommodate tall pilot.
$12,200 invested, asking price: $12,200. You get 1200 hours of my labor
for free.
Send request off-list for more details and possibly photos if I can borrow a
digital camera.
Airplane is located in Atlanta.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard" <bigfoot(at)saber.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 05/27/00 |
Where are all the RV8 builders?
Dick Johnson RV8A
About to install the engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Steve the Panel Pilot and my Memphis trip |
Some of you know, I went to Memphis this weekend to buy a set of wings for
my RV-4 project (which I did). I posted last week that I was going to do so
and asked if anyone up there would care to come along as a second pair of
eyes to look at these wings. Steve the panel pilot is located in Memphis.
Steve not only offered to help, this man went way WAY out of his way to help
me. All unsolicited, I never asked him for anything.....he just offered and
wouldn't take no for an answer (don't think I ever tried though). He picked
me up at the airport and took me to see several projects (including Franks
awesome RV-8). He got a friend to save me $100 on a rental truck to drive
the wings back in, found me a hotel, chauffeured me around Memphis for two
days, found two more RV builders to come with me to look at the wings and
the four of us manhandled the set on the stand into the truck (no small
feat). I just had to tell this list that Steve is one first class, top
shelf, golden nugget of a southern hospitality chairman. We should be more
than happy to hand this man all the business he can handle. The only thing
I regret is that I forgot to leave my new wing tank caps with him....but he
gave me his road atlas (!) to find my way home with so I can send my caps
back with that. He saved me an enormous amount of effort, tons of worry and
a bunch of money to boot.
We also went to an EAA breakfast there in Memphis. I've been to several
here in Florida and I have to say I was floored by the enthusiasm and
generosity of the Tennessee EAA. As I said, I've been to several breakfast
fly in's here in Florida and I've spoken to many really nice builders/flyers
but never had them go out of their way to see if I wanted a ride, or to sit
in their planes or just to talk about my project......southern hospitality,
it's a wonderful thing. I regret that I had to be in a hurry to get back
home. I had a wonderful offer from Charlie England to drop by for an
inspirational ride in his RV-4....another southerner full of hospitality.
The weather was crap for the drive back so I can take some solice in the
fact that the ride couldn't have happened anyway. I do want to thank
Charlie for the offer though, I really would like to have taken him up on
it. I would also like to thank those who helped in Memphis to load the
wings.....the further north I go the more southern it feels.
Thanks again Steve
Bill Shook
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Extinguishers (long reply) |
I have seen the results of halon being fired in a condition where air was
moving by rapidly. A beautiful Porsche 993 twin turbo was at the track
practicing for the coming race. This was a fully prepared, GT car equipped
with not one but two HUGE halon systems. I'm talking about a LOT of halon
here. He was doing a good 150 down the back straight when a fuel line burst
and shot high pressure fuel all over his engine compartment which quickly
ignited. He shut down immediately and popped the first bottle. It emptied
as he slowed. Not knowing how the fire was affecting the brake system he
opted not to jump on the binders and get it stopped prior to popping the
second bottle (hindsight is 20/20). 40 lbs of halon blew right past the
fire and into the cockpit where he said it was not at all a fun place to
breathe. In any event, this $200K piece of engineering wonder burned to the
ground when it came to a stop...with 40 lbs of halon floating invisibly 200
yards behind it. Halon will not work, in a moving aircraft unless you dump
a lot and I mean a LOT on the fire in exactly the right place. If you're
hauling around the typical 5 or even 10 lb bottle in your aircraft ($500) it
will put out your fire if it happens on the ground and you've completely
shut down first. Otherwise, hit the silk.....you are just going to piss the
fire off.
Bill
GT-3 racerboy
RV-4 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | French Connection |
The French Connection aerobatics team had a midair yesterday and went in.
Both pilots perished in the crash, the planes are not recognizable as
anything resembling aviation equipment. A friend of mine witnessed the
collision which happened at 1000 ft directly over flagler airport and the
planes impacted on each side of the runway. Apparently they were in a turn,
descending and their wings collided (not head on, but moving in the same
direction). This happened yesterday.....a very sad day.
Bill Shook
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Product Review - Knight Upholstry Products |
Who is Knight and where are they located? What about
price?
Dan DeNeal
rv6a (finish kit)
--- PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Installed my Knight seats yesterday. They are
> outstanding. They seem
> very light and comfortable and look excellent. I
> got them about two weeks
> after ordering them.
>
> Dave Beizer
> RV 6a Final assembly
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
RV list
| Subject: | Re: French connection |
Jerry Springer wrote:
>
> Jerry Springer wrote:
> >
> > I just heard that the Husband wife flying team the "French Connection"
> > crashed and were both killed. This is sad news. No details yet.
>
May 22, 2000 - May 28, 2000
RV-Archive.digest.vol-io