RV-Archive.digest.vol-ir
June 09, 2000 - June 13, 2000
> - Jim Andrews
> RV-8AQ ( finish )
> N89JA (reserved)
>
>
Jim--
The G-envelope (V-N diagram) for my modified -6 demonstrated that the 6g
max. limit is 137 mph. Above that speed, sudden control movements or
wind gusts can subject the aircraft to loads in excess of 6g's. By
extrapolation, at around 200 mph control stick forces could
theoretically produce about 14 - 15g's.
Boyd
RV S6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
The high density poly tape on top or both surfaces would be my choice.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: <pcondon(at)csc.com>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 #80620
>
>
> Do you think aluim. to aluim would be better ?? What are you options at
this
> juncture ??
>
>
> cgalley(at)accessus.net on 06/09/2000 09:04:32 AM
>
> Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 #80620
>
>
> The tape doesn't scratch the flap BUT dirt that easily embeds in the
Teflon
> tape probably does. Teflon is very soft.
>
> Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
> (Click here to visit our Club site at
http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ERSF2B(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 11:34 PM
> Subject: RV-List: RV-8 #80620
>
>
> >
> > Folks,
> > I gave my first ride today, (25 hours and 1 minute), and what a
difference
> in
> > handling. The most pronounced are the landing char. The bottom will drop
> out
> > in a second. Some other things that have cropped up over 25 hours:
> > 1. Do not put the teflon tape under the wing skin to protect the flap.
I
> > still have not painted the machine, but the tape is scraching the flap
> skin.
> > 2. The square heater box from Vans leaks. And it get very hot inside. I
> would
> > try something else.
> > 3. I am presently flying in MEM, and I will need either cooling louvers,
> or a
> > cowl flap. I can not get #3 cht to come down.
> > 4. The alternator belt was too long, and even though the pully was not
> near
> > the cowl, high G loads brought the assy. close enough to start a hole in
> the
> > cowl. Mainly the pully and the bolt head.
> > 5. The handheld GPS in the panel is hard to see. (Lowrance 300). Would
go
> to
> > a palm top or something else.
> > 6. There is a druming (sounds like the props are out of sync) that I
> belive
> > is coming from the panel right behind the exhaust. (with the hinge pin
to
> no
> > where). I think it needs stiffining.
> > 7. Need a mirror to see the pax.
> > There will be more for sure.
> >
> > Ed Storo 26 hours and still grinnnnnnnning.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Petri" <dpetri(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Weak wing theory |
Bill,
To partially answer your question on whether the plane departed with a
positive or negative load, the NTSB report found that the main spar had
evidence of a ductile fracture due to a positive overload.
Hope this helps,
Dave
RV-6 Preview Plans (Still waiting for the wifely nod...)
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Shook <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Weak wing theory
I'm only going to add one thought here....from an engineer who used to do
life testing. One static test, using carefully applied sandbags is hardly a
realistic test of the environment these wings spend their life in. I've
never experienced turbulance that is carefully, slowly applied. Most
aerobatics by amateurs are probably less than smooth as well. As far as the
aircraft that broke, I would assume the rear passenger pulled on the stick
at cruise....and the front passenger just sat there??? No, I think
not....he likely pushed back....making the wings do a flap like move which
is a totally different kind of stress than a bunch of sandbags laid on it
with care. I would be very interested to know if that particular wing
departed under positive or negative G loading........
Bill
-4 wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank and Dorothy" <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 2:07 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Weak wing theory
>
> glenn williams wrote:
> > Larry this is the best post I have seen to date on the
> > so called weak wing theory. As an A&P we are always
> > told that the engineer designed it and the A&P works
> > on it. In other words leave it alone guys. Just fly
> > the airplane in it's envelope and stay within the
> > g-limits and you will be fine.
>
> That's all very well, assuming there were no mistakes made by the
> designer and/or tester.
>
> On reading this, a thought that occurred to me was that perhaps the
> wings that were tested didn't have this hole drilled... after all, if
> the wing isn't going to actually fly, why go to the trouble of fitting a
> pitot tube to it?
>
> Can anyone confirm that the wings that Vans tested *did* have pitot
> tubes fitted at the specified location?
>
> I'm not into fanning this particular flame, but *maybe* there's
> something in it????
>
> Frank.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Weak wing theory |
guys understand that the rv-8 8a wing is the first
engineered wing to fly on a vans airplane. They have
it down to a science at where the wing will break at a
certain load condition. That is why the g-load is +6
and -3 with ultimate load factors higher at +9 and -6
one time. as stated before I think we are beating a
dead horse here. Just stay in the envelope
Glenn
--- pcondon(at)csc.com wrote:
>
>
> God forbid..but did any of these "tested" wings
> make it on to the Vans
> prototype that failed ? Stress is accumulative .
> Hopefully someone either
> failed the wing by bending it bigtime...or if no
> visual deformation was evident
> they chainsawed it so it woulden't get used........
>
>
> jah(at)abraxis.com on 06/09/2000 09:04:11 AM
>
> Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Weak wing theory
>
>
>
>
> I believe the wings that Van's tested where
> purchased from a builder who was
> selling his/her project.
>
> -Jeff
> RV-8 Fuselage Stuff
> Atlanta
>
> ---------- Original Message
> ----------------------------------
> From: Frank and Dorothy <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
> Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 18:07:03 +1200
>
>
> >
> >glenn williams wrote:
> >> Larry this is the best post I have seen to date
> on the
> >> so called weak wing theory. As an A&P we are
> always
> >> told that the engineer designed it and the A&P
> works
> >> on it. In other words leave it alone guys. Just
> fly
> >> the airplane in it's envelope and stay within the
> >> g-limits and you will be fine.
> >
> >That's all very well, assuming there were no
> mistakes made by the
> >designer and/or tester.
> >
> >On reading this, a thought that occurred to me was
> that perhaps the
> >wings that were tested didn't have this hole
> drilled... after all, if
> >the wing isn't going to actually fly, why go to the
> trouble of fitting a
> >pitot tube to it?
> >
> >Can anyone confirm that the wings that Vans tested
> *did* have pitot
> >tubes fitted at the specified location?
> >
> >I'm not into fanning this particular flame, but
> *maybe* there's
> >something in it????
> >
> >Frank.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Ludwig" <ludwig(at)azstarnet.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Weak Wing Theory (Van's reply)... |
I sent Van's the Weak Wing Theory - their reply follows:
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Risan <support(at)vansaircraft.com>
Date: Thursday, June 08, 2000 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV-8 Weak Wing Theory...
the one wing that has failed did not fail at this location.
an analysis was done on this area both before the kit was released
and after the accident....determined that it was not a structural
problem.
if you had seen the loading of these wings during testing, you would
not be concerned about pulling a wing off.
the simple fact is ....the manuvering speed of the -8 is about
140mph, the cruise speeds are upwards of 180mph...if the airplane
isn't flown with respect, it can be broken.
if you fly the plane within the designed parameters...+6, -3 G's,
you will not have a problem.
scott at van's
From: "Bill Ludwig" <ludwig(at)azstarnet.com>
Subject: RV-8 Weak Wing Theory...
> I'm about ready to order the RV-8, and got the following from the RV List.
> Please comment on this post, and the Weak Wing Website, and give me a warm
> feeling that the wing won't snap on me!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Ludwig, Tucson
> ----------------------------------------------
>
> "Just looked at Larry's weak wing theory web page, I offer one more RV8
wing
> detail that has bothered me as a structural engineer ever since I was
rather
> shocked to see it. In my QB left wing, at point C where the failures
> occurred, a large hole is bored through the tension (bottom) flange of the
> wing spar for the pitot tube penetration. Looks like it reduces the cross
> sectional area of the tension flange by more than half. That must
> significantly weaken the wing at point C, and is the worst place to drill
a
> big hole. As Larry pointed out, this is the only continuous structural
> member at that location and there are already stress concentrators due to
> the termination of the wing spar flange bars.
>
> "I only hope some aeronautical engineer did a stress analysis to show no
> problems. However I seriously considered some form of strengthening too,
if
> anyone has designed something please advise.
>
> ~ Greg Miller ~
>
> RV-8 Weak Wing Website: http://www.rvators.com/rv8wing.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Weak wing theory |
yes the wings were purchased from a builder who lost
interest and also you will note that the wings were
tested to failure and they went past the design load
before failure, but Van's does not elaborate on how
much further they went before failure. All in all I
strongly believe that we have a safe airplane guys.
Just ask the rv-8-8a people who are flying them now.
They will be our greatest ally in this so called weak
wing theory. As I said before stay inside the envelope
and you will be safe.
Glenn
--- jah wrote:
>
>
> I believe the wings that Van's tested where
> purchased from a builder who was selling his/her
> project.
>
> -Jeff
> RV-8 Fuselage Stuff
> Atlanta
>
> ---------- Original Message
> ----------------------------------
> From: Frank and Dorothy <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
> Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 18:07:03 +1200
>
>
> >
> >glenn williams wrote:
> >> Larry this is the best post I have seen to date
> on the
> >> so called weak wing theory. As an A&P we are
> always
> >> told that the engineer designed it and the A&P
> works
> >> on it. In other words leave it alone guys. Just
> fly
> >> the airplane in it's envelope and stay within the
> >> g-limits and you will be fine.
> >
> >That's all very well, assuming there were no
> mistakes made by the
> >designer and/or tester.
> >
> >On reading this, a thought that occurred to me was
> that perhaps the
> >wings that were tested didn't have this hole
> drilled... after all, if
> >the wing isn't going to actually fly, why go to the
> trouble of fitting a
> >pitot tube to it?
> >
> >Can anyone confirm that the wings that Vans tested
> *did* have pitot
> >tubes fitted at the specified location?
> >
> >I'm not into fanning this particular flame, but
> *maybe* there's
> >something in it????
> >
> >Frank.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott <acepilot(at)win.bright.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Breather |
Just be sure you have a hole punched in the breather hose about 2 inches
down from where it come out of the engine in the winter (below freezing)
as moisture will freeze somewhere along the way to the exit at the
tail. If it becomes blocked, the usual place the engine breathes is
through the front crank seal which turns a nice VFR day into a nasty IFR
"night" flight. You could probably use a "summer" hose at the engine
port without a hole in it and replace it with a "winter" (with hole)
hose when the weather gets cool enough that encountering sub-freezing
temps during flight. I haven't tried this yet, but like other's
suggestion to aim the breather tube outlet onto an exhaust pipe to burn
it away. Food for thought.
--Scott--
1986 Corben Junior Ace N3642
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
RV-4 under construction (tail feathers)
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die!
Ken Cantrell wrote:
>
>
> As far as oil breathers go... What about running a 3/4" aluminum pipe down
> the inside of the fuselage and exit near the tail wheel. My dad did this in
> the Pitts he built about 30 years ago. I'd like to do this in my RV6. The
> main reason for this in my opinion is to keep the belly cleaner. Is there
> any reason I shouldn't do this?
>
> Ken Cantrell
> rv6QB -finish stuff - no engine yet.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: kempthornes <kempthornes(at)home.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 9:44 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Breather
>
> >
> > > Slip a length of regular automotive rubber radiator (heater)hose over
> the
> > > engine fitting and route it down to the exhaust ramp area or directly
> over
> >
> > Sorry I didn't keep a record of the part number or what it fit but I went
> > into an auto parts store and asked for a hose that fits this (socket) and
> > bends 90 degrees. Nice formed hose resulted.
> >
> > A nicely formed piece of LIGHT WEIGHT fully formed aluminum tubing would
> be
> > a good product - Mr. Gretz???
> >
> > hal
> >
> >
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Weak wing theory |
I'm only going to add one thought here....from an engineer who used to do
life testing. One static test, using carefully applied sandbags is hardly a
realistic test of the environment these wings spend their life in. I've
never experienced turbulance that is carefully, slowly applied. Most
aerobatics by amateurs are probably less than smooth as well. As far as the
aircraft that broke, I would assume the rear passenger pulled on the stick
at cruise....and the front passenger just sat there??? No, I think
not....he likely pushed back....making the wings do a flap like move which
is a totally different kind of stress than a bunch of sandbags laid on it
with care. I would be very interested to know if that particular wing
departed under positive or negative G loading........
Bill
-4 wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank and Dorothy" <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 2:07 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Weak wing theory
>
> glenn williams wrote:
> > Larry this is the best post I have seen to date on the
> > so called weak wing theory. As an A&P we are always
> > told that the engineer designed it and the A&P works
> > on it. In other words leave it alone guys. Just fly
> > the airplane in it's envelope and stay within the
> > g-limits and you will be fine.
>
> That's all very well, assuming there were no mistakes made by the
> designer and/or tester.
>
> On reading this, a thought that occurred to me was that perhaps the
> wings that were tested didn't have this hole drilled... after all, if
> the wing isn't going to actually fly, why go to the trouble of fitting a
> pitot tube to it?
>
> Can anyone confirm that the wings that Vans tested *did* have pitot
> tubes fitted at the specified location?
>
> I'm not into fanning this particular flame, but *maybe* there's
> something in it????
>
> Frank.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pcondon(at)csc.com.Fri, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003331011@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Fri,
09 Jun 2000 07:50:45.-0700(at)matronics.com
Do you think aluim. to aluim would be better ?? What are you options at this
juncture ??
cgalley(at)accessus.net on 06/09/2000 09:04:32 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 #80620
The tape doesn't scratch the flap BUT dirt that easily embeds in the Teflon
tape probably does. Teflon is very soft.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: <ERSF2B(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 11:34 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 #80620
>
> Folks,
> I gave my first ride today, (25 hours and 1 minute), and what a difference
in
> handling. The most pronounced are the landing char. The bottom will drop
out
> in a second. Some other things that have cropped up over 25 hours:
> 1. Do not put the teflon tape under the wing skin to protect the flap. I
> still have not painted the machine, but the tape is scraching the flap
skin.
> 2. The square heater box from Vans leaks. And it get very hot inside. I
would
> try something else.
> 3. I am presently flying in MEM, and I will need either cooling louvers,
or a
> cowl flap. I can not get #3 cht to come down.
> 4. The alternator belt was too long, and even though the pully was not
near
> the cowl, high G loads brought the assy. close enough to start a hole in
the
> cowl. Mainly the pully and the bolt head.
> 5. The handheld GPS in the panel is hard to see. (Lowrance 300). Would go
to
> a palm top or something else.
> 6. There is a druming (sounds like the props are out of sync) that I
belive
> is coming from the panel right behind the exhaust. (with the hinge pin to
no
> where). I think it needs stiffining.
> 7. Need a mirror to see the pax.
> There will be more for sure.
>
> Ed Storo 26 hours and still grinnnnnnnning.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Weak wing theory |
thanks Brian
Glenn
--- Brian Denk wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >Just ask the rv-8-8a people who are flying them
> now.
> >They will be our greatest ally in this so called
> weak
> >wing theory. As I said before stay inside the
> envelope
> >and you will be safe.
> >
> >Glenn
>
>
> I'll offer my input as one of the lucky ones
> mentioned above. ;)
> My wings are built per plans, with the hole drilled
> exactly as specified. I
> have yanked and banked my -8 in all kinds of
> loadings and speeds, with no
> problems at all. I normally do not exceed 4G's in
> sportsman aerobatics. Any
> more than this is just bad technique and is hard on
> engine mounts, seat
> upholstery and the pilot!
>
> I have also experienced some very abrupt and
> downright painful tubulence
> excursions that spanned 5 G's...from the negative to
> the positive. One
> episode was GIB induced (guy in back, which I have
> posted about recently)
> and the other was virga. Whoa...that one smacked my
> knees under the panel
> and my head got intimate with the plexi. There is
> no reason to go to the
> magic 6G figure. I've tried to but can't get it to
> happen. I seem to run out
> of aft stick before I get there. I'm not concerned
> about that at all. The
> plane does what I expect it to do, and I trust the
> airframe.
>
> As long as you don't get ham fisted with the
> airplane at max cruise speed
> while loaded up over aerobatic gross weight, you
> have NOTHING to worry about
> folks. Build them per plans, and enjoy the
> experience!
>
> Fly safely,
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Control Problems/Loctite (tm) |
Which product are you talking about. Loctite is a brand name with many
different products. The threadlocking materials set up in the absence of
air, i.e.... no flumes.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: <pcondon(at)csc.com>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 Control Problems/Loctite (tm)
>
>
> Remember to keep the Loctite away from your plexi canopy. The curing
vapors can
> cause crazing in some instances.....
>
>
> Vanremog(at)aol.com on 06/09/2000 12:15:00 AM
>
> Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 Control Problems/Loctite (tm)
>
>
> In a message dated 6/8/00 11:09:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> stefanking_1999(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> << Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that
> Loctite (tm) (the blue stuff) on nylon locknuts is a
> no-no, as the adhesive attacks the plastic over time,
> thereby compromising the nut's locking capability. >>
>
> IMO this is completely incorrect.
>
> 1. The anaerobic methacrylate resins in Loctite 242 will not attack 6/6
> nylon used in locknuts.
>
> 2. Loctite 242 will supplement the prevailing torque in the nylon locking
> ring by filling the metal threads in the balance of the nut.
>
> 3. Loctite 242 must be reapplied upon removal of the fastener, whereas a
> nyloc can be used a few times without completely losing its locking
> capability.
>
> -GV (RV-6A N1GV)
> vanremog(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pcondon(at)csc.com.Fri, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003331307@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Fri,
09 Jun 2000 08:03:44.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: RE: Weak wing theory |
God forbid..but did any of these "tested" wings make it on to the Vans
prototype that failed ? Stress is accumulative . Hopefully someone either
failed the wing by bending it bigtime...or if no visual deformation was evident
they chainsawed it so it woulden't get used........
jah(at)abraxis.com on 06/09/2000 09:04:11 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Weak wing theory
I believe the wings that Van's tested where purchased from a builder who was
selling his/her project.
-Jeff
RV-8 Fuselage Stuff
Atlanta
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Frank and Dorothy <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 18:07:03 +1200
>
>glenn williams wrote:
>> Larry this is the best post I have seen to date on the
>> so called weak wing theory. As an A&P we are always
>> told that the engineer designed it and the A&P works
>> on it. In other words leave it alone guys. Just fly
>> the airplane in it's envelope and stay within the
>> g-limits and you will be fine.
>
>That's all very well, assuming there were no mistakes made by the
>designer and/or tester.
>
>On reading this, a thought that occurred to me was that perhaps the
>wings that were tested didn't have this hole drilled... after all, if
>the wing isn't going to actually fly, why go to the trouble of fitting a
>pitot tube to it?
>
>Can anyone confirm that the wings that Vans tested *did* have pitot
>tubes fitted at the specified location?
>
>I'm not into fanning this particular flame, but *maybe* there's
>something in it????
>
>Frank.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave <dhrycauk(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Weak wing theory |
I could be wrong, but IMHO I would not think that the flanges on the wing
spar contribute "that" much to the wing load carrying capabilities. I think
of the wing spar much the same as an "I" beam or a floor truss in a house,
the vertical section of the spar holds the vast majority of the vertical
wing load. The flanges are their for attachments to the spar and some
rigitity on the horizontal axis. Now if we were to cut holes in the vertical
section of the spar, we would be acking for trouble. Just my thoughts on
the subject, I am no aeronautical engineer.
Dave Hrycauk
RV-8 80972 (Wings)
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dhrycauk/index.htm
Lacombe, Alberta
Frank and Dorothy wrote:
>
> glenn williams wrote:
> > Larry this is the best post I have seen to date on the
> > so called weak wing theory. As an A&P we are always
> > told that the engineer designed it and the A&P works
> > on it. In other words leave it alone guys. Just fly
> > the airplane in it's envelope and stay within the
> > g-limits and you will be fine.
>
> That's all very well, assuming there were no mistakes made by the
> designer and/or tester.
>
> On reading this, a thought that occurred to me was that perhaps the
> wings that were tested didn't have this hole drilled... after all, if
> the wing isn't going to actually fly, why go to the trouble of fitting a
> pitot tube to it?
>
> Can anyone confirm that the wings that Vans tested *did* have pitot
> tubes fitted at the specified location?
>
> I'm not into fanning this particular flame, but *maybe* there's
> something in it????
>
> Frank.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
The tape doesn't scratch the flap BUT dirt that easily embeds in the Teflon
tape probably does. Teflon is very soft.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: <ERSF2B(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 11:34 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 #80620
>
> Folks,
> I gave my first ride today, (25 hours and 1 minute), and what a difference
in
> handling. The most pronounced are the landing char. The bottom will drop
out
> in a second. Some other things that have cropped up over 25 hours:
> 1. Do not put the teflon tape under the wing skin to protect the flap. I
> still have not painted the machine, but the tape is scraching the flap
skin.
> 2. The square heater box from Vans leaks. And it get very hot inside. I
would
> try something else.
> 3. I am presently flying in MEM, and I will need either cooling louvers,
or a
> cowl flap. I can not get #3 cht to come down.
> 4. The alternator belt was too long, and even though the pully was not
near
> the cowl, high G loads brought the assy. close enough to start a hole in
the
> cowl. Mainly the pully and the bolt head.
> 5. The handheld GPS in the panel is hard to see. (Lowrance 300). Would go
to
> a palm top or something else.
> 6. There is a druming (sounds like the props are out of sync) that I
belive
> is coming from the panel right behind the exhaust. (with the hinge pin to
no
> where). I think it needs stiffining.
> 7. Need a mirror to see the pax.
> There will be more for sure.
>
> Ed Storo 26 hours and still grinnnnnnnning.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Control Problems |
| From: | Denis Walsh <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net> |
on 6/8/00 16:18, Ralph Koger at kogrh(at)willinet.net wrote:
>
> I have found after building several RVs, 6s and a 4 that the jam nuts will
> loosen because of the over rotation of the hemie bearing that they are to
> lock. To have the given up and down degrees of the controls they have to
> rotate more than a regular hookup with a bolt and possibly washers will
> allow. Van sells a special washer that is 3/16" or bolts size with a
> outside diameter that is small enough for the bearing to freely rotate over
> it and will correct your problem. If you donot use the washers you will
> always loosen the jam nut or twist the control tube if you lock everything
> tight. I am not in my shop withmaterial information to give you the
> numbers of the washers, but if you want more information just return mail.
> I don't know if Van sends them in the kit and we don't find them, but I
> have always orders a dozen or so for each airplane that I have put together.
> This is a necessary item to check on all of the RV series planes.
> Ralph Koger RV-6A N16RK
Ralph, your post was a breath of fresh air on the list!! What a great tip.
I was particulalry glad to see it in view of the various misinformation and
loosely related chatter.
I believe he called these seastrom washers when he first came out with them,
but I too don't remember the nomenclature. I know one when I see them.
I love my sun shade.
--
Denis L.(Bum) Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Weak wing theory |
>Just ask the rv-8-8a people who are flying them now.
>They will be our greatest ally in this so called weak
>wing theory. As I said before stay inside the envelope
>and you will be safe.
>
>Glenn
I'll offer my input as one of the lucky ones mentioned above. ;)
My wings are built per plans, with the hole drilled exactly as specified. I
have yanked and banked my -8 in all kinds of loadings and speeds, with no
problems at all. I normally do not exceed 4G's in sportsman aerobatics. Any
more than this is just bad technique and is hard on engine mounts, seat
upholstery and the pilot!
I have also experienced some very abrupt and downright painful tubulence
excursions that spanned 5 G's...from the negative to the positive. One
episode was GIB induced (guy in back, which I have posted about recently)
and the other was virga. Whoa...that one smacked my knees under the panel
and my head got intimate with the plexi. There is no reason to go to the
magic 6G figure. I've tried to but can't get it to happen. I seem to run out
of aft stick before I get there. I'm not concerned about that at all. The
plane does what I expect it to do, and I trust the airframe.
As long as you don't get ham fisted with the airplane at max cruise speed
while loaded up over aerobatic gross weight, you have NOTHING to worry about
folks. Build them per plans, and enjoy the experience!
Fly safely,
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: ERSF2B(at)aol.com <ERSF2B(at)aol.com>
Date: Thursday, June 08, 2000 11:35 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 #80620
>
>Folks,
>I gave my first ride today, (25 hours and 1 minute), and what a difference
in
>handling. The most pronounced are the landing char. The bottom will drop
out
>in a second. Some other things that have cropped up over 25 hours:
>1. Do not put the teflon tape under the wing skin to protect the flap. I
>still have not painted the machine, but the tape is scraching the flap
skin.
Ed: Did you use TFE or the UHMW tape that Van's recommends? Have others had
this problem?
>>4. The alternator belt was too long, and even though the pully was not
near
>the cowl, high G loads brought the assy. close enough to start a hole in
the
>cowl. Mainly the pully and the bolt head.
The second belt recommended by B&C for my 60A alternator and O360A1A was
also slightly too long for my 6A with S-cowl (first was way too long!). The
molded-in circle for optional blister installation is also in the wrong
location to do any good! This seems to be a common problem with RVs.
>
>Ed Storo 26 hours and still grinnnnnnnning.
>
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pcondon(at)csc.com.Fri, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003329548@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Fri,
09 Jun 2000 06:41:45.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: RV8 canopy centerline |
Use a seamstress tape to establish your C/L. One assumption is that the blank
of plactic was placed squarely in the press mold at the factory and whoever cut
the flange off did it evenly on both sides....... I would eyeball for the C/L
with light overhead so no shadows bias your eye.......establish a line that
way....then back measure evenly to establish a reference line ( lines) where
the flange was cut off.......pretty easy. Your only concern is that---- Was
there too much flange cut off ???
Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com on 06/08/2000 11:49:37 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: RV8 canopy centerline
Listers,
Is there anyone out there who has had to find the centerline on their canopy
when they have no canopy flange to reference from? I purchased my canopy tinted
from Foxlite via Van's and when I open the package I discovered that the flange
had been cut off for me already. While this is a plus for shipping it's a
definite minus for correct measuring and cutting of the canopy. I know there
was a post about this a few months back but I spent the last hour searching the
archives with no luck in locating it.
Thx,
- Jim Andrews
RV-8AQ ( finish )
N89JA (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ERSF2B(at)aol.com.Fri, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003323654@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Thu,
08 Jun 2000 22:11:17.-0700(at)matronics.com
Folks,
I gave my first ride today, (25 hours and 1 minute), and what a difference in
handling. The most pronounced are the landing char. The bottom will drop out
in a second. Some other things that have cropped up over 25 hours:
1. Do not put the teflon tape under the wing skin to protect the flap. I
still have not painted the machine, but the tape is scraching the flap skin.
2. The square heater box from Vans leaks. And it get very hot inside. I would
try something else.
3. I am presently flying in MEM, and I will need either cooling louvers, or a
cowl flap. I can not get #3 cht to come down.
4. The alternator belt was too long, and even though the pully was not near
the cowl, high G loads brought the assy. close enough to start a hole in the
cowl. Mainly the pully and the bolt head.
5. The handheld GPS in the panel is hard to see. (Lowrance 300). Would go to
a palm top or something else.
6. There is a druming (sounds like the props are out of sync) that I belive
is coming from the panel right behind the exhaust. (with the hinge pin to no
where). I think it needs stiffining.
7. Need a mirror to see the pax.
There will be more for sure.
Ed Storo 26 hours and still grinnnnnnnning.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pat_hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: eve ball vents |
George:
These eyeball vents are manufactured by the Wemac Corporation. I have seen
their ads in Aviation Week and Space Technology, and they probably have a
web site. They are the leader in this area, also make eyeball reading
lights, etc. I would try to give them a call and see if you can purchase
direct or at least get a list of their dealers.
Pat Hatch
RV-4 N17PH @ VRB
RV-6, Fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: meketa <acgm(at)gvtc.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 11:57 PM
Subject: RV-List: eve ball vents
>
> Hello Yall
>
> I am trying to get an aluminum EYE BALL vent to match the large one
> purchased from Chief Aircraft. They are on backorder from them and ACS.
> The estimated release date is 8 to 12 weeks. From my experience this
> figure will at lease double by the time they come in. The part number is
> WEM 2373-1. Does anyone know of another middle man who may have one in
> stock or the manufacturer so a possible in stock middleman may be found.
>
> George Meketa
> RV8-QB canopy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Cantrell <kcflyrv(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Breather |
As far as oil breathers go... What about running a 3/4" aluminum pipe down
the inside of the fuselage and exit near the tail wheel. My dad did this in
the Pitts he built about 30 years ago. I'd like to do this in my RV6. The
main reason for this in my opinion is to keep the belly cleaner. Is there
any reason I shouldn't do this?
Ken Cantrell
rv6QB -finish stuff - no engine yet.
----- Original Message -----
From: kempthornes <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Breather
>
> > Slip a length of regular automotive rubber radiator (heater)hose over
the
> > engine fitting and route it down to the exhaust ramp area or directly
over
>
> Sorry I didn't keep a record of the part number or what it fit but I went
> into an auto parts store and asked for a hose that fits this (socket) and
> bends 90 degrees. Nice formed hose resulted.
>
> A nicely formed piece of LIGHT WEIGHT fully formed aluminum tubing would
be
> a good product - Mr. Gretz???
>
> hal
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
I used stainless steel tape on the flap itself and the
steel tape will looked scratched but will not hurt
your aluminum wing skin
Glenn
--- Karl Schilling wrote:
>
>
>
> I used heavy clear packing tape on the bottom side
> of the wing skin. It
> works great, no problems in 85+ hrs. You need to
> clean this area and
> lightly sand w/400 to make sure it is really smooth
> in this area before the
> instalation of the tape. Karl 711KN RV-8
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pcondon(at)csc.com [SMTP:pcondon(at)csc.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 09:11
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 #80620
>
>
>
> Do you think aluim. to aluim would be better ?? What
> are you options at
> this
> juncture ??
>
>
> : http://www.matronics.com/
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jah" <jah(at)abraxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Weak wing theory |
I believe the wings that Van's tested where purchased from a builder who was selling
his/her project.
-Jeff
RV-8 Fuselage Stuff
Atlanta
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Frank and Dorothy <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 18:07:03 +1200
>
>glenn williams wrote:
>> Larry this is the best post I have seen to date on the
>> so called weak wing theory. As an A&P we are always
>> told that the engineer designed it and the A&P works
>> on it. In other words leave it alone guys. Just fly
>> the airplane in it's envelope and stay within the
>> g-limits and you will be fine.
>
>That's all very well, assuming there were no mistakes made by the
>designer and/or tester.
>
>On reading this, a thought that occurred to me was that perhaps the
>wings that were tested didn't have this hole drilled... after all, if
>the wing isn't going to actually fly, why go to the trouble of fitting a
>pitot tube to it?
>
>Can anyone confirm that the wings that Vans tested *did* have pitot
>tubes fitted at the specified location?
>
>I'm not into fanning this particular flame, but *maybe* there's
>something in it????
>
>Frank.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pcondon(at)csc.com.Fri, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003330640@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Fri,
09 Jun 2000 07:32:34.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Control Problems/Loctite (tm) |
Remember to keep the Loctite away from your plexi canopy. The curing vapors can
cause crazing in some instances.....
Vanremog(at)aol.com on 06/09/2000 12:15:00 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 Control Problems/Loctite (tm)
In a message dated 6/8/00 11:09:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
stefanking_1999(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that
Loctite (tm) (the blue stuff) on nylon locknuts is a
no-no, as the adhesive attacks the plastic over time,
thereby compromising the nut's locking capability. >>
IMO this is completely incorrect.
1. The anaerobic methacrylate resins in Loctite 242 will not attack 6/6
nylon used in locknuts.
2. Loctite 242 will supplement the prevailing torque in the nylon locking
ring by filling the metal threads in the balance of the nut.
3. Loctite 242 must be reapplied upon removal of the fastener, whereas a
nyloc can be used a few times without completely losing its locking
capability.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pcondon(at)csc.com.Fri, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003331538@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Fri,
09 Jun 2000 08:14:45.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Cleaning Off Bugs |
This is no joke....a elderly lady who flys a Cessna 140 religiously sprays PAM
cooking non-stick spray or her leading edges before every flight. When she
returns she wipes down the leading edges with another application to wet down
and clean the leading edges. She has one of the nicest paint jobs on the field
&
I know her paint to be at least 15 years old.........FWIW
crabaut(at)coalinga.com on 06/08/2000 07:42:31 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cleaning Off Bugs
Hi Guys,
I thought I'd throw out my solution... "Turtle Wax's Bug and Tar and
Tree Sap Remover". I'm sure it's not TSOed or STDed or anything, but I've
been using it for several years. It does contain a wax (some sort of
petroleum distillate). It was recommended to me by an Auto Paint Shop guy
and my A&P/IA looked it over and didn't say no... so I gave it a try and I
liked it. If anyone knows of any reason(s) why I shouldn't be using it,
Please by all means let me know.
Thanks,
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Gray <brucegray(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: eve ball vents |
Hi George,
Do you mean the ones with a 2 inch square mounting flange and a 1 inch od
nozzle?
If so, they can be had from Neco (Lancair) for $47, part # 2230-1
(541-923-2244)
All alumiinum air nozzles that have a 'WEMAC' part prefix are made by BE
Aerospace in NY. 631-563-6400.
Hope this helps.
Bruce
Glasair III
meketa wrote:
>
> Hello Yall
>
> I am trying to get an aluminum EYE BALL vent to match the large one
> purchased from Chief Aircraft. They are on backorder from them and ACS.
> The estimated release date is 8 to 12 weeks. From my experience this
> figure will at lease double by the time they come in. The part number is
> WEM 2373-1. Does anyone know of another middle man who may have one in
> stock or the manufacturer so a possible in stock middleman may be found.
>
> George Meketa
> RV8-QB canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pcondon(at)csc.com.Fri, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003331534@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Fri,
09 Jun 2000 08:14:34.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Pushrod question |
I too looked in the RV-4 manual...nothing. I found some helpful data in my RV-8
plans. I purchaced the RV-8 (small binder version) plans set and found the
interveining 15 years (between the RV-4 and RV-8 plans) a great help on the
minutia items and points of detail.... Not there is anything specifically wrong
or bad with RV-4 plans.....I just found the exrta set of plans to throw a
different light on my problem of the day......
svanarts(at)unionsafe.com on 06/08/2000 02:23:31 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Pushrod question
I am installing my control stick and associated push rods. Where would I
find information on properly securing the rod end bearings and jam nuts? I
tried to RTFM but I didn't fund much in the RV-4 manual.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank and Dorothy <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Weak wing theory |
glenn williams wrote:
> Larry this is the best post I have seen to date on the
> so called weak wing theory. As an A&P we are always
> told that the engineer designed it and the A&P works
> on it. In other words leave it alone guys. Just fly
> the airplane in it's envelope and stay within the
> g-limits and you will be fine.
That's all very well, assuming there were no mistakes made by the
designer and/or tester.
On reading this, a thought that occurred to me was that perhaps the
wings that were tested didn't have this hole drilled... after all, if
the wing isn't going to actually fly, why go to the trouble of fitting a
pitot tube to it?
Can anyone confirm that the wings that Vans tested *did* have pitot
tubes fitted at the specified location?
I'm not into fanning this particular flame, but *maybe* there's
something in it????
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell mounting questions |
> 1. With the blades at full course (held by two burly guys), and when
using
> the supplied 1/4" spacers on the spinner bulkhead bolts, my bulkhead has
> about 1/8" clearance to the prop blade shaft. Is this adequate, or should
I
> add a washer for a bit more?
Be happy with the 1/8" clearance. Mine interfered with the aft bulkhead in
the full coarse condition. It wasn't a simple as adding washers to move
the aft bulkhead aft, since moving it aft would cause a interference fit
condition between the forward bulkhead and the spinner. My choices were to
either rework the forward bulkhead with some sort of rings to move it aft
also, or to make clearance in the aft bulkhead for the prop blades. I
chose to make clearance in the aft bulkhead and reinforced it somewhat to
compensate.
In any case, remember that the fore/aft distance between the two bulkheads
is driven by the spinner alone.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN 6A systems
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com.Fri, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003323330@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Thu,
08 Jun 2000 21:51:19.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell mounting questions |
In a message dated 6/8/00 4:46:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, randy@rv-8.com
writes:
<< I'm mounting my prop this weekend after finishing up the spinner bulkhead
tonight...
1. With the blades at full coarse (held by two burly guys), and when using
the supplied 1/4" spacers on the spinner bulkhead bolts, my bulkhead has
about 1/8" clearance to the prop blade shaft. Is this adequate, or should I
add a washer for a bit more?>>
If you are sure that you have 1/8" then this is okay. I had to add a washer
to each spacer to get adequate clearance.
<< 2. When bolting up the prop, should the O-ring in the prop hub be
pre-lubricated with anything? The choices seem to be a) nothing, 2) engine
oil, or 3) Dow Corning DC-4 which is used on the engine oil filter. >>
I coat all of my 'O'-rings (and any other rubber parts, like Lord Mounts, for
that matter) with DC-4 no matter where they are. It protects completely
against ozone deterioration and lubricates.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com.Fri, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003334415@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Fri,
09 Jun 2000 10:31:36.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: RE: Weak wing theory |
>airplane. i.e. artificial feel. That said the airplane
>was simply overstressed past it's design limits.
I don't subscribe to this whole "we need to redesign the wing theory". I
believe that if you fly the 8 within the design envelope that your going to be
ok. Heck I know of folks that go out weekly and do acro in their 8 with no
problems what so ever.
This is my question. If I'm giving someone a ride and were flying along a cruse
with my Navaid at the controls and suddenly my passenger gets a hold of the
control stick and jerks it back as far as it can go that we are both going to
die?
Just asking because if this is the case, I'm removing the rear control stick and
throwing it in the trash. The last thing I need is a self-destruct stick with
in reach of my passenger.
Thx,
- Jim Andrews
RV-8AQ ( finish )
N89JA (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Hughes" <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Weak wing theory |
Preface:
This is not a flame. I am not a PE. I do have a degree in engineering, but
it has dust on it.
Not sure that this is 100% correct. It would seem that a wing structure is
under cyclical loading as opposed to a static structure. These cycles would
tend to affect a cross section that has been reduced in area more than the
full cross section. Also, I have never heard of stress raisers being formed
in a member under compression. In other words, I think there are much more
complex dynamics than simply saying that structures don't fail under
tension.
My $.02, worth much less.
Keith Hughes
RV-6 Tanks
Parker, CO
>
> Folks, structures usually fail in compression, not tension (unless we're
> talking about string, and we're not). For instance, you can hang a lot
more
> weight from a 3/16" diameter rod than you can support by a 3/16" diameter
> column.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pcondon(at)csc.com.Fri, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003332280@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Fri,
09 Jun 2000 08:57:27.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Antenna placement |
Same for me. I figured I needed less coax hookup wire and it was just plane
easier for me to hook it up there. I got my antennas from the aircraft salvage
yard for 15$ apiece...they are the standard stainless rods that most spam cans
use.....
k_schilling(at)iquest.net on 06/09/2000 09:06:11 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV-List: Antenna placement
Jim I have mine right in the center under the cowling on my RV-8 it works
great! Karl
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Nolan [SMTP:JimNolan(at)kconline.com]
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 05:17
Subject: RV-List: Antenna placement
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: eve ball vents |
> I am trying to get an aluminum EYE BALL vent to match the large one
> purchased from Chief Aircraft. They are on backorder from them and ACS.
> The estimated release date is 8 to 12 weeks. From my experience this
> figure will at lease double by the time they come in. The part number is
> WEM 2373-1. Does anyone know of another middle man who may have one in
> stock or the manufacturer so a possible in stock middleman may be found.
Give John Harmon a call and ask run that part number by him. It might be the
same as the one that he carries. They are the nicest eyeball vents I have
ever seen quality wise and they're big. He usually answers his email within
a few hours. You'll find his address in the Yeller Pages.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com.Fri, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003323329@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Thu,
08 Jun 2000 21:51:14.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Control Problems/Loctite (tm) |
In a message dated 6/8/00 11:09:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
stefanking_1999(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that
Loctite (tm) (the blue stuff) on nylon locknuts is a
no-no, as the adhesive attacks the plastic over time,
thereby compromising the nut's locking capability. >>
IMO this is completely incorrect.
1. The anaerobic methacrylate resins in Loctite 242 will not attack 6/6
nylon used in locknuts.
2. Loctite 242 will supplement the prevailing torque in the nylon locking
ring by filling the metal threads in the balance of the nut.
3. Loctite 242 must be reapplied upon removal of the fastener, whereas a
nyloc can be used a few times without completely losing its locking
capability.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stefan King <stefanking_1999(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Loctite (tm) 242 and nylon lock nuts |
After getting various answers about Loctite (242), the
blue stuff, from various engineering experts that I
know who use this stuff in military electronics
assemblies, I took another listers' advice and I
contacted the tech support department at Loctite,
specifically asking them about the compatibility of
this product with stainless steel nylon-insert lock
nuts/bolts.
What I found out was very interesting...
Although it won't hurt the nylon insert, the stuff
won't cure properly on stainless steel hardware unless
you use the proper primer first.
Bottom line: if you're not following the proper
application technique, it looks as though you're
wasting your time, and your Loctite (tm) 242...
Regards,
Stefan
Sanford, FL
PS: the following is the reply I got from tech
support, quite promptly I might add:
From: Catherine Scoville
[mailto:Catherine_Scoville(at)loctite.com]
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 2:59 PM
Subject: Tech Services Web Inquiry 6-9-0904 CS
Stefan,
Generally, anaerobic materials (such as 242) will not
adversely affect nylon. It
is always important to check the compatibility of
Loctite with your specific
plastic. Another issue is that neither of the
substrates you're using (stainless
steel and nylon) are "active": that is, contain active
metal ions. This is
necessary for the 242 to cure. So while the 242 may
not harm the nylon, it won't
cure on either surface without a primer, such as
Primer T 7471 or Primer N 7649.
Regards,
Cathy
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd <tmrv6(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Antenna placement |
Jim,
I installed my antenna under the cowl just behind the engine mount(RV-6). I have
been using it for over 150 hours with no problems.
Todd tmrv6(at)netzero.net N92TM RV-6 flying in Southern MD
Jim Nolan wrote:
>
> Listers,
> I've been installing a GPS Navigation system in my RV4. Now I'm ready to
> install the antenna. Has anyone out there installed their antenna underneath
> the cowling and if so, has it worked well in that location. I need an answer
> by tomorrow morning. Thanks
> Jim Nolan
> N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heater Selector/Bypass Box |
When I received the triangular valve I wasn't happy to find that it was aluminum,
so I replaced the flapper and lever with a stainless steel. That way if there is
fire just pull it closed and the steel is exposed to the flames.
Garry RV6 testing electrical system.
pcondon(at)csc.com wrote:
>
> There as a post a month ago about some AD's on the Aluim. heater boxes on
> certified aircraft. It seems that they melt (sometimes) when there is a cowl
> fire...........I went with the triangle Aluim. ones because of a fit problem
> that the triangles solved.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | 4th VA State EAA Fly-In, Petersburg (PTB) |
June 10-11, 2000
4th Annual Virginia State EAA Fly-In will be held at Petersburg
Municipal Airport. Gates open from 8 a.m. - 5 p.m. each day. Airshow
from 1-3 p.m. each day. Static aircraft displays, exhibits and vendors,
youth activities, workshops and tent talks, radio controlled aircraft
demonstrations, Airmobile, pancake breakfast each morning from 8 a.m. -
11 a.m. RV ( the vehicle) and Under the Wing camping (no hookups).
Food service on the field.
See below for more info.
<http://www.vaeaa.org/>
Field closed 12:30 -3:30 for air show.
Richard reynolds,Norfolk, VA, RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Karl Schilling <k_schilling(at)iquest.net> |
I used heavy clear packing tape on the bottom side of the wing skin. It
works great, no problems in 85+ hrs. You need to clean this area and
lightly sand w/400 to make sure it is really smooth in this area before the
instalation of the tape. Karl 711KN RV-8
-----Original Message-----
From: pcondon(at)csc.com [SMTP:pcondon(at)csc.com]
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 09:11
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 #80620
Do you think aluim. to aluim would be better ?? What are you options at
this
juncture ??
: http://www.matronics.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | meketa <acgm(at)gvtc.com> |
Hello Yall
I am trying to get an aluminum EYE BALL vent to match the large one
purchased from Chief Aircraft. They are on backorder from them and ACS.
The estimated release date is 8 to 12 weeks. From my experience this
figure will at lease double by the time they come in. The part number is
WEM 2373-1. Does anyone know of another middle man who may have one in
stock or the manufacturer so a possible in stock middleman may be found.
George Meketa
RV8-QB canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Karl Schilling <k_schilling(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Antenna placement |
Jim I have mine right in the center under the cowling on my RV-8 it works great!
Karl
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Nolan [SMTP:JimNolan(at)kconline.com]
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 05:17
Subject: RV-List: Antenna placement
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hamer" <shamer(at)mscomm.com> |
| Subject: | Bagotville Airshow, Canada |
Any RVers going to the airshow at Bagotville this weekend, stop by the
KC-135 and introduce yourself. I'll give you a good tour if you want one.
I don't know if there will be more than one tanker there, but I'll be on the
one from March Field, Ca. (452 AMW).
Steve Hamer
RV-4 flying
RV-6 finishing last wing-fuselage delivered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com.Fri, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003319611@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Thu,
08 Jun 2000 18:53:35.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Heater Selector/Bypass Box |
I wish that I had added a mixer to my heater system. The footwell area gets
hot and has little airflow. I have a 2" air hose from the left forward
baffle to a heat muff on the left exhaust, and then into the square heat box
on the firewall. In the summer, I connect the supply directly to the heat
box so I can get cold air at the rudder pedals, but in the winter, switch
back. I would be sure to include a mixer to solve the problem.
Bruce Patton
-6A.a 596S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Nolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Antenna placement |
Listers,
I've been installing a GPS Navigation system in my RV4. Now I'm ready to
install the antenna. Has anyone out there installed their antenna underneath
the cowling and if so, has it worked well in that location. I need an answer
by tomorrow morning. Thanks
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Antenna placement |
> I have mine right in the center under the cowling on my RV-8 it works
great!
While this certainly works fine, why would you want to take yet another wire
forward of the firewall? Wouldn't the glareshield make for a more
serviceable location?
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, fwf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | New ILS avionics on the way. |
For Anyone interested in an economical way to add ILS capability to
their aircraft, check out...
http://www.valavionics.com/INS422TSO.html
There is a limited signup section on their website to receive special
pricing on this unit when it becomes available.
Hope this helps someone.
-Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ERSF2B(at)aol.com.Fri, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003333872@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Fri,
09 Jun 2000 10:05:48.-0700(at)matronics.com
Concerning the flap tape; I had two choices, flap or wing skin. In theory
there should b no difference. Most definetly do not use alum to alum. It will
scrach. So as not to reinvent the wheelI suggest one use the tape on flap
process.
Ed Storo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mferrell(at)pstindy.org.Fri, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003331593@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Fri,
09 Jun 2000 08:17:36.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | rv4 Flap Arm Covers |
Has anyone had problems with objects getting in the way of the
flap actuating arm located on either side of the rear seat in the rv4?
I have a set of covers that are easy to install and astetically
pleasing. For information and pictures contat mferrell(at)pstindy.org.
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/A Fuel tube routing |
Check with Vans on this because I believe the fuel pump is mounted low for a
very good reason. It sounds from your description you have mounted it above the
battery box. If I remember correctly these pumps push better than they suck
(obviously not technical so check the archives) so having the pump low and
mounted in a 45 degree angle is the preferred way.........
HCRV6(at)aol.com on 06/08/2000 02:04:00 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6/A Fuel tube routing
In a message dated 6/7/00 5:31:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
versadek(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< have modified the fuel system on my "6" tail dragger so that the fuel
valve
is mounted almost vertically on a bracket just above the seat.
The electric pump is mounted directly forward of the fuel valve on a bracket
above the battery box. >>
1. How does the selector mounting differ from Van's design? From your
description I can't tell the difference
2. How did you run and support the fuel line from the selector to the
electric pump if it doesn't go down and along the floor?
Harry Crosby
-6 finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Another Cowl Pin Retaining Idea |
I came up with a simpler version of a cowl pin retainer ( like the one I posted
earlier this year using a S/S hinge with all the eyes lopped off except
one...check the archives)
I needed to retain the straight piece of hinge pin sticking out of the cowl so
I could spin the pin in & out with my battery operated drill. At the local
Hobby store I found a clevis eye fork used on model aircraft made of steel and
has a hollow threaded shaft at one end and the mini-clevis on the other. (About
the size of the clevis fork on a trim system on our RV's). Then it was off to
the fishing/boating store for a length of stainless or titanium fishing
line/cable or leader about .050 to .055 diameter or enough pull strength for a
500 pound shark. I fastened one end of the 8 inch cable to the fork end of the
mini clevis....crimped a #22 wire ring to the cable, used shrink tubing to make
it look nice, and placed the ring in the eye of the clevis. I then ran a steel
rivet thru the clevis and ring. I then slipped this end
of the clevis over the hinge pin (it slips over for a .75 inch fit). I then
fastened the other end of the cable to a winged quick connect fittings that
VANS supplies us for our cowl oil door hold down thingies ( I can't recall the
name....it not Southco, or Dzus).....anyway I locate the recpticle on the inner
baffle ( left and right most wall-one safety for each pin ) , allign the
recptical with the split in the cowl and install the recptical. I place my
modified clevis over my pin, run the cable back thru my cowl halves and lock
the cable via the winged quick turn device whos' name escapes me ......it takes
all of 3 seconds to remove the safety by reaching inside the nose and turning
the winged thingie and slipping the coupling off the pin. Takes 3 seconds to
install too !
All that is visable is the mini-clevis and a small length of the S/S cable
running readward into the split of the cowl halves........
This version of pin retainer is not as nice as the California builders'
retainers that I've seen at Oshgosh. But this version takes no @$#%@!$!#
fiberglass work and looks 99% as nice and gets you to the boat store & hobbie
store to see what you've been missing since you started building your RV..... oh
yea...there called cam-locks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Week wing theory |
I was present during one phase of the testing. The loading of the wing was
done under FAA supervision. The wing was loaded to simulate both straight G
loads as well as twisting. In the test that I witnessed the wing was taken
to 9 + and then unloaded.
I can honestly say that I would not have been concerned to take it around
the patch after this test. I guess if you try hard enough you can break
anything.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | A20driver(at)aol.com.Fri, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003331742@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Fri,
09 Jun 2000 08:27:29.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Cleaning Off Bugs |
Hey!!! That PAM cooking spray is crazy but thats what makes passing info
around so great....I'm going to try that just to see what happens..Came back
from Buffalo,NY yesterday and have a lot of bugs on the edges to work
on...Jim Brown, NJ, 3 & 4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Revision to RV-9A Rudder Drawing 7 |
There's an update to drawing 7 that allows you to substitute LP-4-3
pop rivets in place of AN-470 rivets when attaching the R-410 rudder
horn brace to both the R-405PD rudder horn and the R-904 bottom rib.
I wish I would have known about this sooner, but better late than
never!
Mark Schrimmer
RV-9A empennage
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AV8TURDON(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Weak wing theory |
I have A theory that you can take to the bank. If you have an RV8 and
don't feel it's safe SELL IT. If you feel it's SAFE!! then build it and fly
it.
Give the rest of out here a break, so that we don;t have to keep deleting
this CRAP; and get on with your life and build so you can fly like the rest
of us. Frankly, If you owned a Glassair then you'd have something to bitch
about. Personally I'd fly anything Van Designed. I've been flying for 46
years. Everything from J-3's, Fighter Aircraft, Homebuilts, DC-3's to B-767.
This a fine design and a Company that backs it's product. Very Rare today as
you know.
Don Champagne
RV6 Flying 112 HRS
Mild Aero 4 "G's"
Still Alive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 6/9/00 6:42:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
cgalley(at)accessus.net writes:
<< The tape doesn't scratch the flap BUT dirt that easily embeds in the Teflon
tape probably does. Teflon is very soft. >>
Is it Teflon (PTFE) tape or UHMW tape?
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry -xlax- Lovisone <netters2(at)ns.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Weak Wing Theory (Van's reply)... |
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Risan <support(at)vansaircraft.com>
> To: Bill Ludwig
> Date: Thursday, June 08, 2000 3:49 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-8 Weak Wing Theory...
>
> the one wing that has failed did not fail at this location.
Question Mr. Scott... Please state to all the RV8 builders the exact station at
which wing did fail???
>
> an analysis was done on this area both before the kit was released
> and after the accident....determined that it was not a structural
> problem.
Mr. Scott... Please... may interested RV8 builders read this analysis???
>
>
> if you had seen the loading of these wings during testing, you woul not be
> concerned about pulling a wing off.
Please Mr. Scott... State to all interested RV8 builders the total weight in
pounds and at what wing station location loads were applied...
>
>
> the simple fact is ....the manuvering speed of the -8 is about
> 140mph, the cruise speeds are upwards of 180mph...if the airplane isn't flown
> with respect, it can be broken.
Sir... Are you saying John Morgan flew N58RV that day without "respect"???
>
>
> if you fly the plane within the designed parameters...+6, -3 G's,
> you will not have a problem.
Mr. Scott... How can the average pilot maneuver within the design parameters
when a experienced company pilot such as John Morgan with 10,000 hours total
time... 1300 hours in RV's... maneuver that day believing he was well within
the designed parameters of 6+... -3 G's???
Mr. Scott... can you name one training aircraft that has never experienced an
in-flight failure???
Thank you...
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
ITS NOT ALL BAD
i have successfully bidded and won many items on e-bay. about 8k of avionics
all in mint condition, and i got it in 2 days.
one seller to look for is GUYA
SCOTT
tampa
rv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Weak wing theory |
writes:
>
>yes the wings were purchased from a builder who lost
>interest and also you will note that the wings were
>tested to failure and they went past the design load
>before failure, but Van's does not elaborate on how
>much further they went before failure.
Just to correct. The wings were tested to design limit. Not failure.
I saw and touched, after the fact. They were streight as a ruler after
the test.
Just some dimples where the shot bags dented between ribs.
Cecil Hatfield
All in all I
>strongly believe that we have a safe airplane guys.
>Just ask the rv-8-8a people who are flying them now.
>They will be our greatest ally in this so called weak
>wing theory. As I said before stay inside the envelope
>and you will be safe.
>
>Glenn
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Transition Training |
Just a note to the list that I am providing transition training in my RV6 for
those that need it for insurance or just want some RV time before flying
their plane. I am located in the Florida panhandle at the Crestview (CEW)
VOR. This training in my aircraft has been approved by the FAA. The only
caveat is that you must already have a tailwheel endorsement. I travel some
and will be in Orlando next week (13th & 14th) and in the DC area the last
week of June. If interested, give me a call @ 850-609-3175. I am not always
on the list, so phone is best.
Regards,
John Henley, CFII, 400 hrs RV time
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/A Fuel tube routing |
The fuel pump is mounted within 2" of the height that Van mounts the pump normally.
This is well within the 12" lift height specified by Facet. The tubing distance
from tank outlet to pump inlet is actually 10" less on my "6" than on Van's design
and there are no up and down sections. Also Facet recommends a filter on the inlet
side of the pump Van ignores this issue. Take one of these little beauties apart
and you'll see why. My original and subsequent posts were not meant as an attack
on
Van, Van's Aircraft, the fine RV series of aircraft or anybody else. I was just
giving an overview of a alternate to what is currently used in the "6" and "9".
Garry, RV6, N297DG (reserved) finishing
pcondon(at)csc.com wrote:
>
> Check with Vans on this because I believe the fuel pump is mounted low for a
> very good reason. It sounds from your description you have mounted it above the
> battery box. If I remember correctly these pumps push better than they suck
> (obviously not technical so check the archives) so having the pump low and
> mounted in a 45 degree angle is the preferred way.........
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell mounting |
> It has been a long time ago that I mounted my prop. I don't recall a 'O'
ring.
> I have noticed a faint black streaks on the starter wheel. I know I didn't
> lube any 'O' ring on the prop. Where is it located? I am assuming it is
> between the starter ring and the hub, is that correct?
Well, kind of. The starter gear slips over a flange that is the end of the
crankshaft. The rubber (or whatever material) O-ring is in the female prop
hub which slips over the prop flange. Frankly the Hartzell manual doesn't
mention lubrication of any kind so I don't think it's critical. I will
probably end up putting a thin coating of DC-4 on it per the suggestion of
some other builders, and also common sense.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, fwf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Jokes On The RV-List... |
I have received a number of complaints regarding the posting of jokes to
the RV-List in recent days. Please keep your posts related to RVs or at
least aviation in general.
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas McIntyre <bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Weak wing theory |
Something else to consider is the breakaway force applied
if you have to wrestle the stick away from the back seater and
win.
Tom
RV3
Bill Shook wrote:
>
> > This is my question. If I'm giving someone a ride and were flying along a
> cruse
> > with my Navaid at the controls and suddenly my passenger gets a hold of
> the
> > control stick and jerks it back as far as it can go that we are both going
> to
> > die?
>
> Yes, if you are at 200mph and the rear passenger touches his groin with the
> stick....I do believe you're going for a vertical ride resulting in a hole
> about the size of your engine. You will make less of a dent in the ground,
> but you will never see it.
>
> Here's hoping that never happens.
>
> Bill
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
Those builders seeking used radios and instruments should get familiar with
Eastern Avionics. They call their printed catalog a "Buyers Guide". They
carry all the major brands and list them nicely with pictures. Look for the
items that have a reconditioned price. This means they are used. They seem
to average 50-70% of the new price. Radios, GPS, moving maps, weather
avoidance, and some instruments. Every thing comes from their bench with a
warranty and a fresh tag. Send them an email and ask for a printed catalog.
staff(at)avionix.com
http://www.avionix.com
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
Jon spent a day in Tromso to rest up and repair two small cracks in his
canopy caused by the cold temperatures between the North Pole and
Spitzbergen. He is now in Stauning, Denmark attending a air show and will
depart Monday for Germany.
Eustace Bowhay - Blind Bay, B.C
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Weak Wing Theory (Van's reply)... |
In a message dated 6/9/2000 7:50:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
craig-rv4(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<< If you are concerned that the wings on your RV-8 are not strong
enough, take your computer ( yes, the one you are using right now )
outside and burn it.
It won't do YOU any good, but you won't be able to dump this useless
drivel on this list, which in turn will make the rest of US feel much
better.
If you don't like the wings on your -8 "GET RID OF IT".
I'll bet you can get a good deal on a Glassair project.
The horse is dead.......move on! >>
If everyone stoped posting this kind of crap then weak wing thing would die
out.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger <rembree(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Weak wing theory |
I deleted most of the Weak Wing Theory posts but just caught this one. This is
a
good illustration of why you should not even think about altering the load
carrying members unless a structural engineer or preferably and aeronautical
engineer has been consulted. Don't start cutting or drilling things based on
opinions.
>
> I could be wrong, but IMHO I would not think that the flanges on the wing
> spar contribute "that" much to the wing load carrying capabilities. I think
> of the wing spar much the same as an "I" beam or a floor truss in a house,
> the vertical section of the spar holds the vast majority of the vertical
> wing load. The flanges are their for attachments to the spar and some
> rigitity on the horizontal axis. Now if we were to cut holes in the vertical
> section of the spar, we would be acking for trouble. Just my thoughts on
> the subject, I am no aeronautical engineer.
>
> Dave Hrycauk
> RV-8 80972 (Wings)
Sorry Dave but no, you are not correct.
There are two major stresses that a spar or beam is subjected to. One is stress
due to bending moment, the other is due to shear. The bending moment is taken
almost entirely by the flanges. The shear is distributed among the web and the
flange area. There are twisting forces but they are not relevant to this
discussion.
When the shear stress is calculated in this case, it is not the governing factor
in sizing the spar. That is why the web has lightening holes in it. The
remaining cross section area will be more than adequate to handle the shear
stress. (Shear stress equals force (weight) divided by cross section area.)
Normal bending moments (positive g) creates compressive stress in the top flange
and tension stress in the bottom flange. These bending moment stresses are many
times the shear stress. The bending moment will be maximum at the root of the
wing and almost zero at the tip, hence thick flanges at the root.
A quick calculation for my 6 indicates that at one g, the resulting stress in
the spar flanges due to bending moment is about 4550 psi and shear stress is
about 250 psi.
At 9g, approximately 41,000 psi. due to bending and 2250 psi due to shear
stress. These calculations are not exact but in the right ball park.
Yield stress of 2024 T4 is 47,000 psi.
DON'T CUT INTO THOSE SPAR FLANGES.
Roger Embree
6A rear top skin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George True <true(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Weak Wing Theory |
I don't know why this topic has risen from the dead (again!). This has
been hashed, rehashed, cussed, discussed, sliced, diced, shaken and
baked until it's hard to believe there's anything left to say about it
that hasn't already been said many times. This has been discussed in
this and other forums now for, literally, YEARS.
There are perhaps several reasons for this. First, there are probably a
lot of new people on this list within the last year who were not around
for those discussions. If you're a relative newbie on the List, and you
have an inquiring mind that wants to know, check the archives, there's
already enough in there about this topic to make your eyes glaze over.
Secondly, there are evidently at least a relative few people on this
list and elsewhere, for whom, in their minds, this was never completely
settled. And the latest incarnation of this RV-8 failed-wing thread has
struck a nerve with these individuals. Fine. Everybody is entitled to
their opinions, and I won't criticize someone else simply for having an
opinion different from mine.
But Van's did everything you would expect them to do after the tragedy
with N58RV. They extensively reviewed the design. They brought in an
outside engineering firm to review the design. They tested several sets
of wings to failure. They came up with nothing. Everything tested out
as it was supposed to. I'm not sure what else they would be expected to
do after that.
As another lister has already so eloquently put it, if you suspect the
RV-8 is not safe, then don't build one. And to people such as Mr.
Lovisone, I say, if you really passionately feel there is a problem,
then don't just carp about it, DO something. Put your money where your
mouth is. Get a set of RV-8 wings, build one of then stock, build the
other one with your "fix", and then test them both to failure. Hell, if
you were willing to build them, and then approached Van's about it, not
as a detractor but as someone earnestly in search of the truth, they
might even be willing to help you test them. But if you think there's a
problem, then become part of the solution, instead of posting a theory
on a website that is just that, a THEORY, because there is no actual
data to support it at this time.
In the meantime, anything else that is said about this, in the absense
of any additional data gained by actual testing, is nothing more than
speculation. Please, let's let this unproductive thread die (again) and
get back to exchanging information about building and flying RV's.
This is not intended as a flame towards anyone.
With respect for all opinions,
George True
RV-8, working on wings, and not worried about it...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Jokes On The RV-List... |
Geeus! Some people have no sense of RV(humor)!!!
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 7:12 PM
Subject: RV-List: Jokes On The RV-List...
>
>
> I have received a number of complaints regarding the posting of jokes to
> the RV-List in recent days. Please keep your posts related to RVs or at
> least aviation in general.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Matt Dralle
> Email List Admin.
>
>
> --
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
> Great minds discuss ideas,
> Average minds discuss events,
> Small minds discuss people...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Newman" <newmanb(at)rocketmail.com> |
UHMW = Ultra High Molecular Weight polyethylene tape.
Commonly used in industrial applications where low friction and
abrasion resistance is important, like conveyor systems. Available in
several widths and weights from McMaster Carr Co.
In teflon, McMaster carries teflon sheet with one side smooth and the
reverse side etched so it can be applied with an adhesive. Tough
stuff, but thicker than most tape.
Regards,
Bob
> Is it Teflon (PTFE) tape or UHMW tape?
Bob Newman
Warrenton, VA
newmanb(at)rocketmail.com
newmanb(at)rocketmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dgmurray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
I'd like to jump in here and also support Shane @ GUYA. I spent more money
with him than I would want my wife to find out about and EVERYTHING was
super quality and shipped almost at light speed. Shane went out of his way
to answer numerous E-mails and help me find several other parts needed to
complete my avionics installation. Yes, you need to be careful using E-bay,
but, Shane @ GUYA can be trusted. Thanks Shane.
-----------------------------------------------------
Doug Murray RV-6 C-GRPA
Southern Alberta
----- Original Message -----
From: <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: ebay FYI
>
> ITS NOT ALL BAD
> i have successfully bidded and won many items on e-bay. about 8k of
avionics
> all in mint condition, and i got it in 2 days.
> one seller to look for is GUYA
> SCOTT
> tampa
> rv6a
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell mounting |
My propeller came with a owner's manual which has the installation
instructions for the various applications and all the good stuff such as the
proper "O" ring to to be used, torqueing servicing etc. I really feel this
manual is a must unless you are up to date on installing and maintaining
your Hartzell prop.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Lervold <randy@rv-8.com>
Date: Friday, June 09, 2000 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Hartzell mounting
>
>> It has been a long time ago that I mounted my prop. I don't recall a 'O'
>ring.
>> I have noticed a faint black streaks on the starter wheel. I know I
didn't
>> lube any 'O' ring on the prop. Where is it located? I am assuming it is
>> between the starter ring and the hub, is that correct?
>
>
>Well, kind of. The starter gear slips over a flange that is the end of the
>crankshaft. The rubber (or whatever material) O-ring is in the female prop
>hub which slips over the prop flange. Frankly the Hartzell manual doesn't
>mention lubrication of any kind so I don't think it's critical. I will
>probably end up putting a thin coating of DC-4 on it per the suggestion of
>some other builders, and also common sense.
>
>Randy Lervold
>RV-8, fwf
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cleaning Off Bugs |
In a message dated 06/06/2000 5:07:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jorear(at)mari.net writes:
<< Just did this last weekend after flying 10 young eagles in the Ercoupe. >>
Jeff
I guess that "some" folks live in an arid climate where there is no such
thing as
"dew", unless it is mountain dew. Glad to see you are doing the young eagles
thing. I will be doing alot of that shortly, now that I am pretty well used
to flying a Piper Cherokee.(picked N3927K on May 12 in Boise, Idaho and have
now put twenty hours on her) No bugs on her presently.(I get up early when
required)
Jim Nice
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV8DRIVER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Weak wing theory |
Just gettting to the mail with 203 in the stack so someone else may have
posted on this. My understanding of the failure mode of the RV-8 wing is that
it fails in compression under positive g-loading. In other words the top
structural members fail first, before the bottom members. This is of course
with the 7/16" (I think) hole for the pitot tube fitting drilled into the
bottom flange. I recall that when I got my -8 wing kit, I was suprised to
note that the milled bars that form the tension nd compression members
inboard of the middle (roughly) of the wing were larger on the top than on
the bottom. This would seem to be in accordance with the failure mode being
in compression and the top member needing to be a little stronger. Anybody
have the straight poop on this? Andy Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV8DRIVER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Weak wing theory |
What do you care, Henson? You're buiding a six.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 Wing Flap Intersection |
Lister's,
I have just arrived at the airport & installed my wings, yes they fit!
I am installing the flaps. There is an 1" x 2" area were the flap hinge,
wing & Fuselage meet that is void of skin on the bottom of the airframe.
I have not seen a post on this. Should I leave it as designed or fill in.
Any advise appreciated....Mark
Mark Steffensen
8A, Dallas, TX Final Assembly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Wing Flap Intersection |
> I am installing the flaps. There is an 1" x 2" area were the flap hinge,
> wing & Fuselage meet that is void of skin on the bottom of the airframe.
>
> I have not seen a post on this. Should I leave it as designed or fill in.
>
> Any advise appreciated....Mark
Hey Mark, surf over to
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/finish6.html
This is Sam Buchanan's RV Journal. He's done a 6 but it would seem that he
encountered a very simular problem. Let the page load and scrole most of the
way down. He has a photo of a cover that he made to bridge the gap and cover
the flap rod hole.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Newman" <newmanb(at)rocketmail.com> |
UHMW = Ultra High Molecular Weight polyethylene tape.
Commonly used in industrial applications where low friction and
abrasion resistance is important, like conveyor systems. Available in
several widths and weights from McMaster Carr Co.
In teflon, McMaster carries teflon sheet with one side smooth and the
reverse side etched so it can be applied with an adhesive. Tough
stuff, but thicker than most tape.
Regards,
Bob
> Is it Teflon (PTFE) tape or UHMW tape?
Bob Newman
Warrenton, VA
newmanb(at)rocketmail.com
newmanb(at)rocketmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dgmurray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
I'd like to jump in here and also support Shane @ GUYA. I spent more money
with him than I would want my wife to find out about and EVERYTHING was
super quality and shipped almost at light speed. Shane went out of his way
to answer numerous E-mails and help me find several other parts needed to
complete my avionics installation. Yes, you need to be careful using E-bay,
but, Shane @ GUYA can be trusted. Thanks Shane.
-----------------------------------------------------
Doug Murray RV-6 C-GRPA
Southern Alberta
----- Original Message -----
From: <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: ebay FYI
>
> ITS NOT ALL BAD
> i have successfully bidded and won many items on e-bay. about 8k of
avionics
> all in mint condition, and i got it in 2 days.
> one seller to look for is GUYA
> SCOTT
> tampa
> rv6a
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell mounting |
My propeller came with a owner's manual which has the installation
instructions for the various applications and all the good stuff such as the
proper "O" ring to to be used, torqueing servicing etc. I really feel this
manual is a must unless you are up to date on installing and maintaining
your Hartzell prop.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Lervold <randy@rv-8.com>
Date: Friday, June 09, 2000 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Hartzell mounting
>
>> It has been a long time ago that I mounted my prop. I don't recall a 'O'
>ring.
>> I have noticed a faint black streaks on the starter wheel. I know I
didn't
>> lube any 'O' ring on the prop. Where is it located? I am assuming it is
>> between the starter ring and the hub, is that correct?
>
>
>Well, kind of. The starter gear slips over a flange that is the end of the
>crankshaft. The rubber (or whatever material) O-ring is in the female prop
>hub which slips over the prop flange. Frankly the Hartzell manual doesn't
>mention lubrication of any kind so I don't think it's critical. I will
>probably end up putting a thin coating of DC-4 on it per the suggestion of
>some other builders, and also common sense.
>
>Randy Lervold
>RV-8, fwf
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com.Sat, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003349050@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Fri,
09 Jun 2000 21:15:34.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Cleaning Off Bugs |
In a message dated 06/06/2000 5:07:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jorear(at)mari.net writes:
<< Just did this last weekend after flying 10 young eagles in the Ercoupe. >>
Jeff
I guess that "some" folks live in an arid climate where there is no such
thing as
"dew", unless it is mountain dew. Glad to see you are doing the young eagles
thing. I will be doing alot of that shortly, now that I am pretty well used
to flying a Piper Cherokee.(picked N3927K on May 12 in Boise, Idaho and have
now put twenty hours on her) No bugs on her presently.(I get up early when
required)
Jim Nice
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV8DRIVER(at)aol.com.Sat, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003349172@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Fri,
09 Jun 2000 21:22:59.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: RE: Weak wing theory |
Just gettting to the mail with 203 in the stack so someone else may have
posted on this. My understanding of the failure mode of the RV-8 wing is that
it fails in compression under positive g-loading. In other words the top
structural members fail first, before the bottom members. This is of course
with the 7/16" (I think) hole for the pitot tube fitting drilled into the
bottom flange. I recall that when I got my -8 wing kit, I was suprised to
note that the milled bars that form the tension nd compression members
inboard of the middle (roughly) of the wing were larger on the top than on
the bottom. This would seem to be in accordance with the failure mode being
in compression and the top member needing to be a little stronger. Anybody
have the straight poop on this? Andy Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV8DRIVER(at)aol.com.Sat, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003349486@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Fri,
09 Jun 2000 21:43:49.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: RE: Weak wing theory |
What do you care, Henson? You're buiding a six.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 Wing Flap Intersection |
Lister's,
I have just arrived at the airport & installed my wings, yes they fit!
I am installing the flaps. There is an 1" x 2" area were the flap hinge,
wing & Fuselage meet that is void of skin on the bottom of the airframe.
I have not seen a post on this. Should I leave it as designed or fill in.
Any advise appreciated....Mark
Mark Steffensen
8A, Dallas, TX Final Assembly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Heavy clear packing tape |
I used this stuff to protect the skins when I re-built my emp fairing. Now
I can't get the tape and residue off my airplane. How do you get it off?
What anti-tape substance can I use?
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
RV-6A baffles
-----Original Message-----
I used heavy clear packing tape on the bottom side of the
wing skin. It
works great, no problems in 85+ hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David & Betty Burton <dburton(at)foxinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heavy clear packing tape |
I'd start with a heat gun or hair drier, being careful not to get any plane
parts too hot, and try to get as much of the backing off as possible. Any
automotive paint shop, or maybe a paint shop will have a product called
"adhesive removing solvent". I use 3M #09894. It works well to remove the goo
that is left, but won't help much with the backing. This solvent won't hurt
the paint (check the label to be sure). It is used to clean the tape residue
off freshly painted surfaces. If the part I'm cleaning is unpainted I use
acetone afterwards to remove any residue that is left.
Stephen J. Soule wrote:
>
> I used this stuff to protect the skins when I re-built my emp fairing. Now
> I can't get the tape and residue off my airplane. How do you get it off?
> What anti-tape substance can I use?
>
> Steve Soule
> Huntington, Vermont
> RV-6A baffles
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> I used heavy clear packing tape on the bottom side of the
> wing skin. It
> works great, no problems in 85+ hrs.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Engineering and structures - was: Weak wing theory |
One of you nice dudes wrote:
>For instance, you can hang a lot more weight from a 3/16" diameter rod
>than you can support by a 3/16" diameter column.
In many cases, this is WRONG.
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)ispchannel.com> |
| Subject: | Baffle air deflectors? |
Hi all,
I guess I'm going to have to install some sort of air deflectors on the baffles.
The front
cylinders are about 60 deg F cooler than the rear, and the rear cylinders are redlined
at 500 deg F
during climb unless I maintain 120 kts climb speed. Since I can't find any drawing
of these
deflectors in the prints (RV-8, note- I didn't say they weren't there, just that
I can't find them)
I'd like to see some pictures of what others have installed. If anyone can point
me to photos
online, or e-mail some to me, I'd be ever-so-grateful. The other thing I'd like
to know, is whether
the deflectors lowered the rear cylinder temps any. If the deflectors don't lower
the rear cylinder
temps, I won't install them until I find some way to get the overall CHT's down.
No sense in
redlining all 4 cylinders for the sake of being even.
Thanks,
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (flying 5hrs, installing wheel pants now)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Gravity Defied! - Very Long |
I am very happy to announce that at 6:30 am local (Indianapolis) time this
morning, RV-6 N417G successfully counteracted the forces of gravity with
aerodynamic lift and immediately imparted the highly desirable "RV Grin"
upon yours truly.
Yesterday was a pretty exciting and draining day. I took the day off work
as Mr. FAA Inspector was scheduled to examine N417G at 9:00 am sharp. If
you recall from a previous post, my inspector was adamant about me being
able to demonstrate compliance with all ADs on my engine, prop, and
accessories. Well, thank God for Glen David. He is a local Airframe and
Poweplant mechanic/Inspector for United Airlines, a fellow RV-6
builder/pilot, and just one of the all round nicest guys I've every met.
He came out last week and endorsed my logbooks with the necessary stuff so
that Mr. FAA Guy wouldn't punish me any further. After arriving 25 minutes
late (and my stomach getting ever tighter), Mr. FAA Guy (and Ms. FAA Gal)
casually walked around the airplane, stuck his nose in the engine
compartment, and proceeded to write up the paperwork. By this time, my
wing man (Clay Smith, fellow RV-4 builder) and my Web Designer (Bob
Japundza, fellow RV-6 builder) arrived to lend their support. Upon handing
me the Airworthiness Certificate, Mr FAA Guy imparted the following words
of "wisdom" to me. "You probably won't be flying too long with that
tailwheel fairing on because it will probably come off during your flight
testing." "Excuse me?" I said. "Just what exactly do you mean?" Then he
went into a short discussion about how frail they are, yadda yadda, yadda.
By this point, I just wanted this a**hole out of my hanger and back to his
flying desk. I am sooo glad to have this guy out of my hair. At least he
only gave me 25 hours to fly off.
Unfortunately, the winds were not cooperating with me. By the time Mr. FAA
guy left, the winds had picked up as forecast. They were 12 to 15 and
blowing at 90 degrees to the active runway. So I swallowed my excitement,
and informed the team that the crosswind component exceeded by personal
limit for the first flight and we'd have to wait for another day. They
both concurred and supported my decision. I felt a little disapponted but
confident that I had made the right decision.
That evening, I made plans with Glen and Clay for them to meet me at the
airport at 6:00 am. Glen volunteered to fly wing in his RV-6 while Clay
offered to shoot pictures from the right seat of Glen's bird. All parties
arrived as expected and I pulled my gleaming Blue Metallic and White
airplane from the hanger. Following a short conference to review the
flight card, frequencies, and pertinent procedures, we fired our birds up
and taxiied out to runway 15. Man, words can't describe the feelings I had
as the two of us motored down the taxiway to the far end of the field. All
my hard work was going to come to fruition in a few minutes and this
creation of mine was going to become an official member of the Van's
family. Glen departed first and as he turned downwind, I motored out and
got ready for the final push. I eased the throttle forward to full and
brought the tailwheel up. Little right rudder, more, more, that's it.
Easy back on the stick and..........."We're flying!". Little right wing
heavy,but a little aileron trim took care of things. Man, the ground is
moving by quickly. Climbed up to 3000 feet and trimmed for level flight
while circling the airport. Glen came up on my right wing and said "Man,
that thing looks good!". I was grinning so big I thought the band on my
headset was going to pop.
Once I was satisfied that I wasn't going to have to deadstick it in, we
flew about 5 miles away to a less busy airfield to practive slow flight.
Throttled back and added flaps once under 90 KIAS. Everything was just
perfect. Slowed to 70 KIAS and flew a simulated pattern. Tried full flaps
to see how they felt, even though the plan was to fly the pattern using
only 1/2 flaps this time around. Everything in the green although the oil
temperature had climbed up to the top of the green range with all this slow
flight stuff. Retracted flaps, full throttle, and headed back to Metro.
Glen and Clay came up alongside and snapped a few air-to-air pictures.
The funny thing is that I had to slow down so that Glen could catch me.
At full throttle (new engine break-in) I was indicating close to 160 KIAS,
unconfimed at this point since I haven't calibrated the Airspeed indicator
yet. But Glen was indicating 185 MPH and he wasn't catching me.
Returned to Metro and set up for the pattern. Slowed to 70 KIAS on
downwind and held that all the way down. Glen was in close trail behind me
and said everything looked great. About that time, a Beech King Air
entered the pattern and heard us talking. "What kind of experimental
airplanes are those?" he querried. "Rv-6s" reliplied Glen. "Sure look
sharp." Man, there's that grin again. I'm going to have to loosen up the
headsets a little if I keep this up.
Touchdown was uneventfull. (I should say my "3" touchdowns). Oh well, I
flaired just a little late, but the bounces weren't very high. Cleared the
active and popped open the slider to drink in the cool morning breeze.
Again, my mind is flooded with so many thoughts. There are few moments in
life that rival this. Back at the hanger, shutdown and receive the
obligatory kiss from.....the wife. (you thought from Glen? He's a nice
guy but not that nice.)
Here are the particulars for N417G if you're interested.
Empty weight: 1072 lbs.
Lycoming O-320 from Bart with Lasar ignition
Sensenich metal prop
Full vacuum instruments
Electric trims and flaps
Slider canopy
Full upholstry with carpets and side wall/ firewall insulation
Fairly heavy 3 color IMRON poly paint job with clear coat
Fully faired with gear legs and low pressure wheel pants
My WEB designer (Bob Japundza) is working on getting the pictures posted.
When the site is up, it will be http://www.iquest.net/~rpflanze/. I
checked this morning but it's not up yet. Goals now are to follow the
flight cards that I've put together, wring things out over the next 25
hours, and make my plans for AirVenture.
I'm sorry for the long post guys, but I've been waiting almost 7 years to
finally say...
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 "FLYING"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Heavy clear packing tape |
> I used this stuff to protect the skins when I re-built my emp fairing.
Now
> I can't get the tape and residue off my airplane. How do you get it off?
> What anti-tape substance can I use?
Have you tried acetone? Let it soak in............Norman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gravity Defied! - Very Long |
> I'm sorry for the long post guys, but I've been waiting almost 7
> years to
> finally say...
>
> Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 "FLYING"
Enjoyed every minute of it, Randy.
Congratulations!
That web site returns "Forbidden" still - will have to wait I guess.
This goads me to the garage to hang another bulkhead on the ol' jig.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gravity Defied! - Very Long |
Congrats on a job well done. Enjoy.
Earl still building
"Randy J. Pflanzer" wrote:
>
>
> I am very happy to announce that at 6:30 am local (Indianapolis) time this
> morning, RV-6 N417G successfully counteracted the forces of gravity with
> aerodynamic lift and immediately imparted the highly desirable "RV Grin"
> upon yours truly.
>
> Yesterday was a pretty exciting and draining day. I took the day off work
> as Mr. FAA Inspector was scheduled to examine N417G at 9:00 am sharp. If
> you recall from a previous post, my inspector was adamant about me being
> able to demonstrate compliance with all ADs on my engine, prop, and
> accessories. Well, thank God for Glen David. He is a local Airframe and
> Poweplant mechanic/Inspector for United Airlines, a fellow RV-6
> builder/pilot, and just one of the all round nicest guys I've every met.
> He came out last week and endorsed my logbooks with the necessary stuff so
> that Mr. FAA Guy wouldn't punish me any further. After arriving 25 minutes
> late (and my stomach getting ever tighter), Mr. FAA Guy (and Ms. FAA Gal)
> casually walked around the airplane, stuck his nose in the engine
> compartment, and proceeded to write up the paperwork. By this time, my
> wing man (Clay Smith, fellow RV-4 builder) and my Web Designer (Bob
> Japundza, fellow RV-6 builder) arrived to lend their support. Upon handing
> me the Airworthiness Certificate, Mr FAA Guy imparted the following words
> of "wisdom" to me. "You probably won't be flying too long with that
> tailwheel fairing on because it will probably come off during your flight
> testing." "Excuse me?" I said. "Just what exactly do you mean?" Then he
> went into a short discussion about how frail they are, yadda yadda, yadda.
> By this point, I just wanted this a**hole out of my hanger and back to his
> flying desk. I am sooo glad to have this guy out of my hair. At least he
> only gave me 25 hours to fly off.
>
> Unfortunately, the winds were not cooperating with me. By the time Mr. FAA
> guy left, the winds had picked up as forecast. They were 12 to 15 and
> blowing at 90 degrees to the active runway. So I swallowed my excitement,
> and informed the team that the crosswind component exceeded by personal
> limit for the first flight and we'd have to wait for another day. They
> both concurred and supported my decision. I felt a little disapponted but
> confident that I had made the right decision.
>
> That evening, I made plans with Glen and Clay for them to meet me at the
> airport at 6:00 am. Glen volunteered to fly wing in his RV-6 while Clay
> offered to shoot pictures from the right seat of Glen's bird. All parties
> arrived as expected and I pulled my gleaming Blue Metallic and White
> airplane from the hanger. Following a short conference to review the
> flight card, frequencies, and pertinent procedures, we fired our birds up
> and taxiied out to runway 15. Man, words can't describe the feelings I had
> as the two of us motored down the taxiway to the far end of the field. All
> my hard work was going to come to fruition in a few minutes and this
> creation of mine was going to become an official member of the Van's
> family. Glen departed first and as he turned downwind, I motored out and
> got ready for the final push. I eased the throttle forward to full and
> brought the tailwheel up. Little right rudder, more, more, that's it.
> Easy back on the stick and..........."We're flying!". Little right wing
> heavy,but a little aileron trim took care of things. Man, the ground is
> moving by quickly. Climbed up to 3000 feet and trimmed for level flight
> while circling the airport. Glen came up on my right wing and said "Man,
> that thing looks good!". I was grinning so big I thought the band on my
> headset was going to pop.
>
> Once I was satisfied that I wasn't going to have to deadstick it in, we
> flew about 5 miles away to a less busy airfield to practive slow flight.
> Throttled back and added flaps once under 90 KIAS. Everything was just
> perfect. Slowed to 70 KIAS and flew a simulated pattern. Tried full flaps
> to see how they felt, even though the plan was to fly the pattern using
> only 1/2 flaps this time around. Everything in the green although the oil
> temperature had climbed up to the top of the green range with all this slow
> flight stuff. Retracted flaps, full throttle, and headed back to Metro.
> Glen and Clay came up alongside and snapped a few air-to-air pictures.
> The funny thing is that I had to slow down so that Glen could catch me.
> At full throttle (new engine break-in) I was indicating close to 160 KIAS,
> unconfimed at this point since I haven't calibrated the Airspeed indicator
> yet. But Glen was indicating 185 MPH and he wasn't catching me.
>
> Returned to Metro and set up for the pattern. Slowed to 70 KIAS on
> downwind and held that all the way down. Glen was in close trail behind me
> and said everything looked great. About that time, a Beech King Air
> entered the pattern and heard us talking. "What kind of experimental
> airplanes are those?" he querried. "Rv-6s" reliplied Glen. "Sure look
> sharp." Man, there's that grin again. I'm going to have to loosen up the
> headsets a little if I keep this up.
>
> Touchdown was uneventfull. (I should say my "3" touchdowns). Oh well, I
> flaired just a little late, but the bounces weren't very high. Cleared the
> active and popped open the slider to drink in the cool morning breeze.
> Again, my mind is flooded with so many thoughts. There are few moments in
> life that rival this. Back at the hanger, shutdown and receive the
> obligatory kiss from.....the wife. (you thought from Glen? He's a nice
> guy but not that nice.)
>
> Here are the particulars for N417G if you're interested.
>
> Empty weight: 1072 lbs.
> Lycoming O-320 from Bart with Lasar ignition
> Sensenich metal prop
> Full vacuum instruments
> Electric trims and flaps
> Slider canopy
> Full upholstry with carpets and side wall/ firewall insulation
> Fairly heavy 3 color IMRON poly paint job with clear coat
> Fully faired with gear legs and low pressure wheel pants
>
> My WEB designer (Bob Japundza) is working on getting the pictures posted.
> When the site is up, it will be http://www.iquest.net/~rpflanze/. I
> checked this morning but it's not up yet. Goals now are to follow the
> flight cards that I've put together, wring things out over the next 25
> hours, and make my plans for AirVenture.
>
> I'm sorry for the long post guys, but I've been waiting almost 7 years to
> finally say...
>
> Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 "FLYING"
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gummos" <tg1965(at)linkline.com> |
Guys and Gals,
The rule of thumb is that the minimum speed that you can pull a given G is
the squareroot of the G times the 1 G stall speed of the plane.
Assume:
1. All speeds are indicated.
2. Flaps are up.
3. 1G stall speed is 50 knots.
The following is an example only.
G Available SquareRoot G Minimum Speed
1 1.0 50.0
2 1.414 70.1
3 1.732 86.6
4 2.0 100.0
5 2.236 111.8
6 2.450 122.5
7 2.646 132.3
8 2.824 141.4
9 3.0 150.0
10 3.163 158.1
11 3.317 165.8
12 3.464 173.2
13 3.606 180.3
14 3.742 187.1
15 3.873 193.6
16 4.0 200.0
Remember all speeds are indicated. The wings know nothing about true
airspeed. Also, if you don't use knots, mph works just as well.
Tom Gummo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AV8TURDON(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gravity Defied! - Very Long |
Congratulations Randy!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Construction Videos For Sale |
I have a complete set of Orndorff RV6 construction videos (RV Sheet Metal
Tools thru the Finish Kit) that I am selling for the low price of $120 plus
shipping. What a deal!! I also have an additional set of Sheet metal tools,
Empennage Construction, and Wing Construction that I will sell for $50 plus
shipping.
John Henley, N6LD Flying, 350 hrs
850-609-3175
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lt. Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Re: G's verse Speed |
Gummo,
Just so I get this straight... I can pull 16 g's out of 200 knots
(well I could if my wings hadn't left at 9)?
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Construction Videos For Sale |
john, interested in wings and after, if pre punched (recent). contact me off
list. bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Gravity Defied! - Very Long |
Randy,
Congratulations. Great feeling isn't it. Every hour I fly mine it just seems
to get better (I know the pilot is as well).
Keep us updated as the flight test goes on.
Laird RV-6 (9.6hrs and loving it)
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Sat, Jun 10, 2000 9:29 AM
Subject: RV-List: Gravity Defied! - Very Long
I am very happy to announce that at 6:30 am local (Indianapolis) time this
morning, RV-6 N417G successfully counteracted the forces of gravity with
aerodynamic lift and immediately imparted the highly desirable "RV Grin"
upon yours truly.
Yesterday was a pretty exciting and draining day. I took the day off work
as Mr. FAA Inspector was scheduled to examine N417G at 9:00 am sharp. If
you recall from a previous post, my inspector was adamant about me being
able to demonstrate compliance with all ADs on my engine, prop, and
accessories. Well, thank God for Glen David. He is a local Airframe and
Poweplant mechanic/Inspector for United Airlines, a fellow RV-6
builder/pilot, and just one of the all round nicest guys I've every met.
He came out last week and endorsed my logbooks with the necessary stuff so
that Mr. FAA Guy wouldn't punish me any further. After arriving 25 minutes
late (and my stomach getting ever tighter), Mr. FAA Guy (and Ms. FAA Gal)
casually walked around the airplane, stuck his nose in the engine
compartment, and proceeded to write up the paperwork. By this time, my
wing man (Clay Smith, fellow RV-4 builder) and my Web Designer (Bob
Japundza, fellow RV-6 builder) arrived to lend their support. Upon handing
me the Airworthiness Certificate, Mr FAA Guy imparted the following words
of "wisdom" to me. "You probably won't be flying too long with that
tailwheel fairing on because it will probably come off during your flight
testing." "Excuse me?" I said. "Just what exactly do you mean?" Then he
went into a short discussion about how frail they are, yadda yadda, yadda.
By this point, I just wanted this a**hole out of my hanger and back to his
flying desk. I am sooo glad to have this guy out of my hair. At least he
only gave me 25 hours to fly off.
Unfortunately, the winds were not cooperating with me. By the time Mr. FAA
guy left, the winds had picked up as forecast. They were 12 to 15 and
blowing at 90 degrees to the active runway. So I swallowed my excitement,
and informed the team that the crosswind component exceeded by personal
limit for the first flight and we'd have to wait for another day. They
both concurred and supported my decision. I felt a little disapponted but
confident that I had made the right decision.
That evening, I made plans with Glen and Clay for them to meet me at the
airport at 6:00 am. Glen volunteered to fly wing in his RV-6 while Clay
offered to shoot pictures from the right seat of Glen's bird. All parties
arrived as expected and I pulled my gleaming Blue Metallic and White
airplane from the hanger. Following a short conference to review the
flight card, frequencies, and pertinent procedures, we fired our birds up
and taxiied out to runway 15. Man, words can't describe the feelings I had
as the two of us motored down the taxiway to the far end of the field. All
my hard work was going to come to fruition in a few minutes and this
creation of mine was going to become an official member of the Van's
family. Glen departed first and as he turned downwind, I motored out and
got ready for the final push. I eased the throttle forward to full and
brought the tailwheel up. Little right rudder, more, more, that's it.
Easy back on the stick and..........."We're flying!". Little right wing
heavy,but a little aileron trim took care of things. Man, the ground is
moving by quickly. Climbed up to 3000 feet and trimmed for level flight
while circling the airport. Glen came up on my right wing and said "Man,
that thing looks good!". I was grinning so big I thought the band on my
headset was going to pop.
Once I was satisfied that I wasn't going to have to deadstick it in, we
flew about 5 miles away to a less busy airfield to practive slow flight.
Throttled back and added flaps once under 90 KIAS. Everything was just
perfect. Slowed to 70 KIAS and flew a simulated pattern. Tried full flaps
to see how they felt, even though the plan was to fly the pattern using
only 1/2 flaps this time around. Everything in the green although the oil
temperature had climbed up to the top of the green range with all this slow
flight stuff. Retracted flaps, full throttle, and headed back to Metro.
Glen and Clay came up alongside and snapped a few air-to-air pictures.
The funny thing is that I had to slow down so that Glen could catch me.
At full throttle (new engine break-in) I was indicating close to 160 KIAS,
unconfimed at this point since I haven't calibrated the Airspeed indicator
yet. But Glen was indicating 185 MPH and he wasn't catching me.
Returned to Metro and set up for the pattern. Slowed to 70 KIAS on
downwind and held that all the way down. Glen was in close trail behind me
and said everything looked great. About that time, a Beech King Air
entered the pattern and heard us talking. "What kind of experimental
airplanes are those?" he querried. "Rv-6s" reliplied Glen. "Sure look
sharp." Man, there's that grin again. I'm going to have to loosen up the
headsets a little if I keep this up.
Touchdown was uneventfull. (I should say my "3" touchdowns). Oh well, I
flaired just a little late, but the bounces weren't very high. Cleared the
active and popped open the slider to drink in the cool morning breeze.
Again, my mind is flooded with so many thoughts. There are few moments in
life that rival this. Back at the hanger, shutdown and receive the
obligatory kiss from.....the wife. (you thought from Glen? He's a nice
guy but not that nice.)
Here are the particulars for N417G if you're interested.
Empty weight: 1072 lbs.
Lycoming O-320 from Bart with Lasar ignition
Sensenich metal prop
Full vacuum instruments
Electric trims and flaps
Slider canopy
Full upholstry with carpets and side wall/ firewall insulation
Fairly heavy 3 color IMRON poly paint job with clear coat
Fully faired with gear legs and low pressure wheel pants
My WEB designer (Bob Japundza) is working on getting the pictures posted.
When the site is up, it will be http://www.iquest.net/~rpflanze/. I
checked this morning but it's not up yet. Goals now are to follow the
flight cards that I've put together, wring things out over the next 25
hours, and make my plans for AirVenture.
I'm sorry for the long post guys, but I've been waiting almost 7 years to
finally say...
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 "FLYING"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Engineering, structures, I-beams - was: Weak wing theory |
One builder, while expressing some uncertainty, wrote:
> I would not think that the flanges on the wing
> spar contribute "that" much to the wing load carrying capabilities
and other very wrong thoughts about I beams and wing spar which I deleted.
I often hear builders say things that express a lack of understanding of
basic engineering principles. Designing and modifying designs without this
basic knowledge can be quite dangerous.
I admire very much those of you who make an effort to understand the thing
you are building. After 3.5 years building on my RV6a, I firmly believe
that anyone who builds an airplane has great talent and the stuff it takes
to do nearly anything. This includes becoming a very competent engineer.
But, there is some study to be done, some books to be read. Making
engineering decisions requires some knowledge of engineering principles.
I think the main thing I learned in engineering school was that every
decision the engineer makes has to have been proven to be true by
calculations or by empirical tests. The practice of licensing engineers
grew out of disasters with bridges and boilers that were the results of
'eyeball' design. My training as an industrial engineer and work life as a
software engineer don't give me much credibility as an aircraft engineer.
Later study on my own gives me some confidence but at the same time it makes
me aware that a little knowledge can be dangerous. Ask advice on this list
when redesigning what Van has done and you will probably find several
qualified answerers.
All that said, some decisions that are not so critical might be the result
of a WAG. That is, a 'Wild Ass Guess'. For example, I WAG that drilling a
one inch hole in the middle of the seat back is okay.
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcbraem(at)home.com.with.ESMTP (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) |
| Subject: | Re: G's verse Speed |
"Lt. Chuck Rabaut" wrote:
>
>
> Gummo,
>
> Just so I get this straight... I can pull 16 g's out of 200 knots
> (well I could if my wings hadn't left at 9)?
>
> Chuck
>
Chuck--
I have physically demonstrated in my plane that the max. rate/min.
radius turn at 6 g's happens at 137 mph. Below that speed you get an
accelerated stall trying to pull 6 g's. Extrapolating the data (based
on clean stall speed, Vs) 200 mph in my -6 will produce around 14 -15
g's (higher for a -8) with max. control deflection or strong wind gusts.
There really is a "yellow arc" on RV's between 135 -140 mph and the red
line speed. Strong turbulence/excess control movement, encountered at
150 -
160 mph can bend/break your airplane.
Boyd
RV S6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Derrick L. Aubuchon" <n184da(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Baffle air deflectors? |
Here is what I did on my 4,,
I used stainless steel tape and blocked off the entire frontal area
of the #1 & #2 cylinders. I made a series of test flights and
gradually reduced the area of the tape until I came up with a shape
that balanced the CHT's across the board.
I can also say that at least in my case, by blocking off the front
cylinders and increasing the CHT, you will also lower the rear
cylinder CHT's.
After I was satisfied with the final shape, I used the tape as a
template and made up some simple flanges
from .025 aluminum. I attached them to the front baffle deck with
screws and nutplates which will allow me to change them at a later
date,, or perhaps allow me to have two sets for winter and summer
operations.
If you would like a picture, email me of the list and I will go out
and snap one for you.
>
>Hi all,
>
>I guess I'm going to have to install some sort of air deflectors on
>the baffles. The front
>cylinders are about 60 deg F cooler than the rear, and the rear
>cylinders are redlined at 500 deg F
>during climb unless I maintain 120 kts climb speed. Since I can't
>find any drawing of these
>deflectors in the prints (RV-8, note- I didn't say they weren't
>there, just that I can't find them)
>I'd like to see some pictures of what others have installed. If
>anyone can point me to photos
>online, or e-mail some to me, I'd be ever-so-grateful. The other
>thing I'd like to know, is whether
>the deflectors lowered the rear cylinder temps any. If the
>deflectors don't lower the rear cylinder
>temps, I won't install them until I find some way to get the overall
>CHT's down. No sense in
>redlining all 4 cylinders for the sake of being even.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Russell Duffy
>Navarre, FL
>RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (flying 5hrs, installing wheel pants now)
Derrick L. Aubuchon
RV-4 N184DA
n184da(at)pacbell.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine/ magneto question |
Hi There,
why does engine rpm drop slightly when one
turns off one of two magnetos? I've asked a mechanic
friend and he came up with various theories but
I'm not convinced with his answers.
Seems to me that when two plugs fire the flame front
burns the compressed gas quicker because of two
point sources of ignition.
Any clues for a newbie student?
Bruce
Bruce Stewart
Triton Diving Equipment
www.triton-dive.com
Lights, Backplates, Harnesses
Dry Suits, Bags, Rebreather Parts
Custom manufacturing
Available only on the Net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Pitot and static connections |
The static air kit shipped by Van's comes with 1\4"OD, 3\16"ID nylon tubing
which goes to the instruments. The RMI Microencoder has barbs which fit
1\8" ID tubing for connections tho the static and pitot sources. The RMI
kit comes with a reducer fitting which is for 1\4 to 1\8 tubing. In other
words, RMI supplies fittings to go from 3/8" OD, 1\4" ID tubing tho the 1\8"
barbs. There are no reduction fittings which go from 3\16"ID to 1\8" ID (at
least I could not find any in Wicks or ASS). Suggestions?
How are most people connection the 1\4" OD aluminum pitot line at the wing
root? A 3\8" nylon hose seems to fit real snugly if you just slide it over
the aluminum tube. If you did this and overlapped the two by several
inches, would there beenough leak around the junction to create significant
errors in the instrument reading? Would a flared coupling connected to the
nylon hose with an adapter be better?
My own thought is to do the slide-over technique as above, and also to join
the 1\4" hose from the static port with another 3\8"OD (1\4"ID) nylon hose
going to the instrument. That way, I would have two 1\4" ID nylon hoses
running to the pitot-static instruments, which I could then t-off to connect
to my Microencoder as well as my separate airspeed indicator.
Comments on any of this would be greatly appreciated.
Jerry Carter
RV-8A
Wiring, panel, avionics
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | F-822 interference with jig? |
In the process of preparing to drill my F-822 forward side skins this
afternoon, I discovered that the aft, bottom (as jigged) corner (on both
sides) would be obstructed from its proper position along the main
longeron by the jig crossmembers that support the F-804 center section
bulkhead. It appears as though I'm going to need to notch the
crossmembers to permit the skin to contact the longeron without unduly
bending the skin. Have any other -8 builders run into this?
I initially thought that I might have my firewall jigged too low, but
I've checked and rechecked and I really don't think that's it. Any
other ideas?
--
Regards,
Ken Balch
Ashland, MA
RV-8 #81125
fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Ruined rear spar |
Well, I really did it now. Despite all the warnings in the manual and
plans about drilling into the spar flange strips, I managed to go and do
it on the rear spar. The offending hole is on the 3rd wing walk rib,
and is right on the edge of the W407 flange strip. It looks pretty
un-fixable, but I will call Vans monday and make sure (and order some
new parts, no doubt.) In the meantime, anybody out there who has made
this mistake, how did you fix it? Drilling out all the rivets on the
407 and making a new one looks tedious, but probably the best option
(especially as I have gotten very proficient at drilling out rivets.)
And things were going so well on the wings (should have been a hint
right there that disaster was imminent.)
Jeff Point
-6 wings
Milwaukee, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ruined rear spar |
Jeff Point wrote:
> The offending hole is on the 3rd wing walk rib,
> and is right on the edge of the W407 flange strip. It looks pretty
> un-fixable, but I will call Vans monday and make sure (and order some
> new parts, no doubt.) In the meantime, anybody out there who has made
> this mistake, how did you fix it? Drilling out all the rivets on the
> 407 and making a new one looks tedious,
Jeff, I assume you nicked the flange strip while drilling the rib to rear
spar rivet holes. If this is the case I would remove the 407 and dress the
nick just like you would on a metal prop. But since you had to remove the
407 to do this I would just replace it with a new one. It is not hard to do,
just hard to get started. Either way it has to be fixed
Gary Zilik
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Cautions and info |
At our local breakfast this morning, Saturday, a couple of guys
had some info I thought I would pass on.
A local RV-8 accident was reported to caused by the the fuel pickup
tube had rotated when the fitting through the access plate was
tightened. It left the pickup(s) very high in the tank(s) and
thereby causing fuel starvation. I would assume that it was both
tanks as the pilot was reported to have said he switched tanks
when the engine cut out just after takeoff.
Another RV-8 pilot was in a group aircraft going down to an airshow
in California. They dropped into Redding for fuel. They were there
for a couple of hours. When the RV-8 pilot got ready to start he
could barely move the throttle. It felt as if it was binding he
reported. The checked out the throttle cable and found that the
'green' vinyl covering on the cable had melted into the cable.
When it cool the vinyl cause the resistance to movement. He said
he had firesleave on the lower portion of the cable nearest to the
exhaust pipes, where it melted.
A local RV-6 pilot and his girl friend had a forced landing in Utah when
the engine lost most of its power. As the terrain was rough and the pilot
elected use a country road. He reported that when turned on to final for the
road he saw a car coming down a side road which distracted him. The airplane
stalled in the turn. The last speed he saw was 80 mph. The bank angle
was not reported. Both wings were torn off as well as the right side cabin
skin. The canopy had departed somewhere during the ride. The aft portion of
fuselage was also reported to have torn in two just ahead of the baggage
bulk head, tearing floor ribs in two also. The tail portion was only attached
by the control tube and the shoulder harnesses. The balance of the plane
stopped inverted. They both walked away with very little personal physical
damage. He was asked about the kerosene smell. They are having the fuel
analyzed. He now suspects that at his last fuel stop that Jet-A was put in.
He reported that it ran very smooth when they departed after fueling. It
was sometime in the air when began getting rough and lose power.
Have good one!
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "M.Mckenna" <mmckenna(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heavy clear packing tape |
Go to your local auto paint supply store and ask for a
general purpose adhesive cleaner. Works real good and will not
harm most finishes.
Mike Mckenna
Lawrenceville, Ga.
RV-8 Wings
Stephen J. Soule wrote:
>
>
> I used this stuff to protect the skins when I re-built my emp fairing. Now
> I can't get the tape and residue off my airplane. How do you get it off?
> What anti-tape substance can I use?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> |
| Subject: | Elevator and cracks from stiffeners |
I just finished back-riveting the stiffeners to the elevator skin and
noticed that I had misread the plans. I measured 3/4 inch from the end of
the stiffener (not TE) to the last rivet, so it resulted in 1 inch total
from TE to the rivet. Will the extra 1/4-inch cause cracking? Does anyone
have experience with this? I plan to use an O-360 with a C/S prop and
aftermarket injection. The stiffeners themselves goes all the way back to
the recommended 1/4- inch from TE though.
It's too bad if I have to redo it since everything else turned out very well
(well, I think so anyways...)
Regards,
Are
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine/ magneto question |
>
>Hi There,
>
>why does engine rpm drop slightly when one
>turns off one of two magnetos? I've asked a mechanic
>friend and he came up with various theories but
>I'm not convinced with his answers.
>
>Seems to me that when two plugs fire the flame front
>burns the compressed gas quicker because of two
>point sources of ignition.
>
>Any clues for a newbie student?
>
>Bruce
>
>Bruce Stewart
Bruce,
I was hoping that an engine "expert" would jump in here. I tinkered
on lots of engines as a kid, and managed to destroy a couple of them
while learning a few lessons the hard way. I have a mechanical
engineering degree. I've got about 1500 hrs heavy radial time, and a
few hundred hours light aircraft time. I took a few hours of piston
engine theory at test pilot school. But, I'm certainly not an engine
expert.
You are correct in stating that two plugs will burn the charge of
fuel and air quicker. Engines make the most power if the maximum
cylinder pressure occurs a few degrees after top dead centre (TDC).
TDC is when the piston is at the top of its stroke. If only one plug
fires, it takes longer to reach the maximum cylinder pressure, and
this max pressure will occur later with respect to TDC, thus the
engine makes less power. This is seen as a decrease in rpm.
The above explanation is a bit over simplified, but it gets the point
across. The full story would take many pages, and I'm not really
qualified to try to explain all the gory details anyway.
Take care,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: F-822 interference with jig? |
> In the process of preparing to drill my F-822 forward side skins this
> afternoon, I discovered that the aft, bottom (as jigged) corner (on both
> sides) would be obstructed from its proper position along the main
> longeron by the jig crossmembers that support the F-804 center section
> bulkhead. It appears as though I'm going to need to notch the
> crossmembers to permit the skin to contact the longeron without unduly
> bending the skin. Have any other -8 builders run into this?
>
> I initially thought that I might have my firewall jigged too low, but
> I've checked and rechecked and I really don't think that's it. Any
> other ideas?
Ken,
You shouldn't have to do this. Yes, you may have to bend it slightly just to
get it tucked in when fitting, but the bottom edge of the skin (as jigged)
should be flush with the bottom (as jigged) of the longeron. It is very
common to not bend the longerons correctly but VERY important to do it
right. Also, there has been some confusion about what the right bending
specs are. I'd check the archives and/or call Van's for the latest. Lastly,
if your F-804 assembly is sitting correctly, your firewall is in the right
place, and your longerons are bent correctly it WILL fit with the F-822
flush with the longeron.
I got a few things crooked at the phase you are but kept going. I had to
restart later and buy $350 worth of replacement parts. In the final analysis
my fuselage ended up very straight, but if you don't start with a correct
foundation, and that is what you are doing now, you will be very sorry
later. Please recheck the things I've mentioned.
You can do it, and it will make sense eventually,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, spinner then cowling
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Problem w/ Multiple Duplicate Posts... |
Hi Listers,
Hum, I'm not sure why this was happening. None of the normal things
that cause it appeared to have happened. The email system had been up
for almost 90 days, so it seemed like a good time to restart it anyway.
Please note if you see any duplicates after about 10 pm pst on Saturday
6/10.
Sorry for the problems...
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Farrar" <jfarrar1(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Wing Flap Intersection |
Mark, Did you have to use any special tricks or tools to get the nuts on
the lower wing bolts? It looks very tight behind the gear weldment.
Thanks, Jeff Farrar, RV8A N4ZJ reserved, Chandler, AZ jfarrar1(at)home.com
Wings done, on the gear, fuselage interior and wiring.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Steffensen <steffco1(at)home.com>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 9:51 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV8 Wing Flap Intersection
>
> Lister's,
>
> I have just arrived at the airport & installed my wings, yes they fit!
>
> I am installing the flaps. There is an 1" x 2" area were the flap hinge,
> wing & Fuselage meet that is void of skin on the bottom of the airframe.
>
> I have not seen a post on this. Should I leave it as designed or fill in.
>
> Any advise appreciated....Mark
>
> Mark Steffensen
> 8A, Dallas, TX Final Assembly
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Wing Flap Intersection |
Jeff,
I know you asked Mark but I just finished installing and torquing those
bolts today. What a B*t*h!!. You should install the two large bolts first.
Keep the smaller, easier ones til last. Only put the large bolts in just
far enough to get the washers on and get the nuts in place. I highly
recommend doing hte inboard one first. I used a pair of 12 inch needle nose
pliers with a 45 degree bend and place each washer on, then held the nut in
place, then tapped the bolt in a little bit so I could place the nut on the
end and then thread the nut on turning the bolt. Then go the the outboard
bolt and do the same thing. My arms and wrists still hurt from all the
ackward positions I was in. The small bolts were easy to do after getting
the large bolts in. Have fun!!
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
Wings On, installing flaps and ailerons
>From: "J. Farrar" <jfarrar1(at)home.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 Wing Flap Intersection
>Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:06:06 -0700
>
>
>Mark, Did you have to use any special tricks or tools to get the nuts on
>the lower wing bolts? It looks very tight behind the gear weldment.
>
>Thanks, Jeff Farrar, RV8A N4ZJ reserved, Chandler, AZ jfarrar1(at)home.com
>Wings done, on the gear, fuselage interior and wiring.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Mark Steffensen <steffco1(at)home.com>
>To:
>Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 9:51 PM
>Subject: RV-List: RV8 Wing Flap Intersection
>
>
> >
> > Lister's,
> >
> > I have just arrived at the airport & installed my wings, yes they fit!
> >
> > I am installing the flaps. There is an 1" x 2" area were the flap hinge,
> > wing & Fuselage meet that is void of skin on the bottom of the airframe.
> >
> > I have not seen a post on this. Should I leave it as designed or fill
>in.
> >
> > Any advise appreciated....Mark
> >
> > Mark Steffensen
> > 8A, Dallas, TX Final Assembly
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator and cracks from stiffeners |
Are,
You have two ways to go. Either add another rivet at 1/2 inch or just
forget it and go on. They should be fine at 1 inch.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
Wings ON!, installing ailerons and flaps.
>From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Elevator and cracks from stiffeners
>Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:59:12 -0400
>
>
>I just finished back-riveting the stiffeners to the elevator skin and
>noticed that I had misread the plans. I measured 3/4 inch from the end of
>the stiffener (not TE) to the last rivet, so it resulted in 1 inch total
>from TE to the rivet. Will the extra 1/4-inch cause cracking? Does anyone
>have experience with this? I plan to use an O-360 with a C/S prop and
>aftermarket injection. The stiffeners themselves goes all the way back to
>the recommended 1/4- inch from TE though.
>
>It's too bad if I have to redo it since everything else turned out very
>well
>(well, I think so anyways...)
>
>Regards,
>Are
>RV-6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | G1159MEK(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV3-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 06/10/00 |
Mixture and efficiency comes to mind with that question. It has to do with
the mixture not burning as efficiently as when there is two sources. Also
when timing two mags you can rarely get them both dead nuts. Hope this helps.
Mike A&P
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gravity Defied! - Very Long |
Randy,
CONGRATULATIONS !!! WELL DONE !!!
Chuck & Dave ROwbotham
RV-8A (at the hangar)
Niantic, CT (Westerly, RI)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Brewster" <kevin(at)synelec.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: G's verse Speed |
Please excuse my ignorance (student pilot), but could someone explain to me
why turbulance induced G-forces increase with aircraft velocity?
Yanking on the stick has a fairly intuitive effect, and I can understand the
sqrt(G)*Vs rule because it is pretty obvious that at Vs you can only have
1G. And I am guessing that if you were to limit the control deflection to
disallow exceeding max-G at Vno then you wouldn't have enough authority at
Vs.
In larger, faster commercial aircraft I assume the control forces prevent
the pilot from exceeding the design G-limits. And in really fast planes
like the F-16 the flight computer does not normally allow pilot induced
destructive forces.
But now with this turbulance thing - why don't the wings tear off when they
hit a "bump" at 600 kts?
I'd really like to understand this, lest I give myself a phobia of flying in
anything but dead-calm!
Kevin Brewster, M-II flap kit
www.synelec.com.au/mustang
Australia
> on clean stall speed, Vs) 200 mph in my -6 will produce around 14 -15
> g's (higher for a -8) with max. control deflection or strong wind gusts.
>
> There really is a "yellow arc" on RV's between 135 -140 mph and the red
> line speed. Strong turbulence/excess control movement, encountered at
> 150 - 160 mph can bend/break your airplane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronen Yehiav <yron(at)isdn.net.il> |
| Subject: | AoA versus [G's verse Speed] |
Just for the record - wings (and airflow) know nothing about
airspeed, whatsoever...
anything they know about is AoA.
Fly AoA, not airspeed. speed is for navigation purposes only,
and even that was made obsolete by GPS...
Ronen.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gummos <tg1965(at)linkline.com>
Date: Saturday, June 10, 2000 10:32 PM
Subject: RV-List: G's verse Speed
|
|Guys and Gals,
|
|The rule of thumb is that the minimum speed that you can pull a
given G is
|the squareroot of the G times the 1 G stall speed of the plane.
|
|Assume:
|1. All speeds are indicated.
|2. Flaps are up.
|3. 1G stall speed is 50 knots.
|
|The following is an example only.
|
|G Available SquareRoot G Minimum Speed
| 1 1.0 50.0
| 2 1.414 70.1
| 3 1.732 86.6
| 4 2.0 100.0
| 5 2.236 111.8
| 6 2.450 122.5
| 7 2.646 132.3
| 8 2.824 141.4
| 9 3.0 150.0
| 10 3.163 158.1
| 11 3.317 165.8
| 12 3.464 173.2
| 13 3.606 180.3
| 14 3.742 187.1
| 15 3.873 193.6
| 16 4.0 200.0
|
|Remember all speeds are indicated. The wings know nothing
about true
|airspeed. Also, if you don't use knots, mph works just as
well.
|
|Tom Gummo
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: F-822 interference with jig? |
>
>In the process of preparing to drill my F-822 forward side skins this
>afternoon, I discovered that the aft, bottom (as jigged) corner (on both
>sides) would be obstructed from its proper position along the main
>longeron by the jig crossmembers that support the F-804 center section
>bulkhead. It appears as though I'm going to need to notch the
>crossmembers to permit the skin to contact the longeron without unduly
>bending the skin. Have any other -8 builders run into this?
>
>I initially thought that I might have my firewall jigged too low, but
>I've checked and rechecked and I really don't think that's it. Any
>other ideas?
>
>--
>Regards,
>Ken Balch
Ken,
I initially thought I had a problem here too. But, the skin is
curved there, so that corner will come down a bit (up as you are
looking at it) as it curves to fit against the F-804. I used a
little piece of 0.032 on the jig to help slide that corner of the
F-820 in place when drilling. My recollection is that I slid it in
place, clamped it in that area, and then drilled the aft edge
starting at the top (bottom as viewed in the jig). I was pretty
worried, but it all came out fine.
See my web page for some more info. The list of Gotchas is at the
bottom of the page:
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/fuselage/f05.html
Be patient, Xoom seems to be slow today.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Micah Froese" <mfroese(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: G's verse Speed |
A simple explantion: Take your car off road on some really bumpy stuff
(turbulence)and drive really slow. Now, drive fast.
*** DISCLAIMER*** The above is meant only as a mental exersise. Do not
attempt this in an automobile. Always wear your seat belt.
>
>Please excuse my ignorance (student pilot), but could someone explain to me
>why turbulance induced G-forces increase with aircraft velocity?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cautions and info |
. Hmm...I think I'll see if I
>can heat shield it in some manner.
>
>Thanks again,
>
>Brian Denk
>RV8 N94BD
>101 hrs. of RV euphoria
Brian, it sure wouldn't hurt it sounds like. He said it just
happened suddenly. He too has a good amount of time, like you,
on the airplane. So it took the vinyl awhile permeate the cable.
He made a stand-off shield/shroud/deflector from scrap aluminum
that clamps to the exhaust. Like in Tony Bingelis books, for
those who don't already have a planned idea. Some have wrapped
the exhaust with 'Thermopower Exhaust Wrap' that can be gotten
through Aircraft Spruce and others. But that is expensive and has
other side effects.
What caught my attention was the Fire Shield he had used did not
shield the vinyl from heat it appears. I thought 'one' of the purposes
of putting 'Fire Shield' on fuel lines was heat protection. If it
indeed allow enough heat through to the vinyl to melt, the fuel has
to be heated too, through the heat shield. So it must be for fire only.
So it sounds like it would be a good idea for us builders to check our
lines and install heat deflectors in areas of doubt.
Have a good one!
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Gravity Defied! - Very Long reply! |
Randy,
Congratulation! We only get one of those first time RV grins! It is great!
The rest of the grins may be big, but not as big as that first "RV Grin!"
I hope you and the list don't mind this post..It is RV related, and it was
very
meaningful, to me...and I hope to you. The emotion came when I read your post,
as I could feel a little of that first flight again! You know what it is!
I have to share This!
I flew my RV-6 in January of this year after 6 years of off and on building.
It was a overcast day with a small window between rain showers. My Wife and
a very good friend, Mike Wells, were the only people I invited that day.
Mike Gave me the following several days later in poem fashion and framed.
It is
much as it happened and allows me to relive it a little.
Denny's First Flight
N641DH
With preflight done, I taxi out.
All systems are go,
what am I worried about?
Years of work are complete
my butt puckered on the seat.
Controls, canopy, runup - check.
Here I go, what the heck
add throttle, tail up as planned.
Sure hope I can land!
Climing fast in the pattern
temperatures are looking good.
What's with this radio?
It's not working like it should.
Flying around it starts to sink in,
the airplane I built is flying,
can't control the grin.
Climbs, turns, slow flight, but no stall
this thing handles like a fighter.
I'm having a ball.
Back at pattern altitude
It's time to land
I'll just talk myself through it
I think I can. I think I can.
On final approach, there is a plane on the ground
he doesn't move soon enough
so add power and go around
Downwind, base, final, all clear
I flare just a little high
and bounce her gently on the gear.
As I taxi back to the expected cheers
I can't help but reflect
on all the love, sweat and tears
that went into this project.
An aircraft all mine.
I built it myself.
An achievment of a life time.
Have a good one!
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot and static connections |
>, RMI supplies fittings to go from 3/8" OD, 1\4" ID tubing tho the 1\8"
>barbs. There are no reduction fittings which go from 3\16"ID to 1\8" ID
Jerry, I used tube in side of tube from the harware store and clear heat
shrink tube over all the joints, static and pitot behaind the panel.
I did not locate any reducers. It seems to be working fine. But I am
still open to suggestions and critiques.
Have a good one!
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: G's verse Speed |
>In larger, faster commercial aircraft I assume the control forces prevent
>the pilot from exceeding the design G-limits. And in really fast planes
>like the F-16 the flight computer does not normally allow pilot induced
>destructive forces.
>
>But now with this turbulance thing - why don't the wings tear off when they
>hit a "bump" at 600 kts?
In the commercial aircraft it has happened, though extremely rare situation.
Just as severe turbulance is a rare happening. Though it seem severe to me
several time in my career, in reality what is described by most pilots as
severe is actually moderate. Severe, the instrument or anything else can't
be read. I was only in severe turbulance once in 35 years. When it got
anywhere
close to being moderate it concern me to point I was looking another plan of
action fast. We were often limited at altitude on speed to the high and low
speed stall, 'coffin corner' areas.
I am a strong believer in slowing it down in turbulance!
Have a good one!
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: F-822 interference with jig? |
Hi Randy,
Firstly, thanks for the words of encouragement. Secondly, I thought about this
all night (sleep, who needs sleep?) and here are the results of my cogitations:
Givens:
1. Parts located by pre-punched holes are in their correct positions (firewall
weldments & F-804 'legs'.
2. Fore & aft location of F-804 is dictated by the F-822 floor skin being
clecoed to the F-804 and butted up to the firewall.
3. Vertical size of the F-804 is dictated by the F-804C bulkhead 'legs'.
4. Proper twist, bend & opening of the F-843 lower longerons is dictated by
their fit: between against the forward
edges of the F-804 flanges; and their conforming to the F-822.
5. Vertical distance between the F-887 main longerons and the F-843 lower
longerons is dictated at the firewall by their proper fit against the WD-803 &
WD-802 firewall weldments and at the F-804 by #'s 2,3 & 4 above.
If one (or more) of these is incorrect, I need to hear it and then do some
re-thinking. If these are all correct, we proceed:
Observations:
1. My F-822 fell right into place, thereby confirming (I think) that my firewall
& F-804 are square and centered relative to each other and are the correct
distance apart.
2. The F-822 is perfectly centered between the F-843 lower longerons.
3. My firewall, F-804, and main & lower longerons MUST be in their correct
places or one or more of my parts wouldn't've lined up. BTW, I did have the
most current longeron bend numbers.
Having just reviewed Kevin H.'s (Thanks, Kevin!) writeup of this same area, I
rechecked all my measurements and they look good. It's possible that I'm
over-reacting to a perceived problem that will go away once the F-820 begins to
take its curve as it's drilled on. I think there's a little more 'extra'
material at the lower (as jigged) aft end of the F-820 than will be accounted
for by that curve, but I'm not sure at this point. If necessary can I put a
shim between the horizontal leg of the main longeron and the F-804?
I'd say that I'm going back to bed now, but I'm probably just going into the
garage to re-measure everything yet again and think about things for awhile.
Like why I thought not buying the QB was such a good idea... :-)
Regards,
Ken
Randy Lervold wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> You shouldn't have to do this. Yes, you may have to bend it slightly just to
> get it tucked in when fitting, but the bottom edge of the skin (as jigged)
> should be flush with the bottom (as jigged) of the longeron. It is very
> common to not bend the longerons correctly but VERY important to do it
> right. Also, there has been some confusion about what the right bending
> specs are. I'd check the archives and/or call Van's for the latest. Lastly,
> if your F-804 assembly is sitting correctly, your firewall is in the right
> place, and your longerons are bent correctly it WILL fit with the F-822
> flush with the longeron.
>
> I got a few things crooked at the phase you are but kept going. I had to
> restart later and buy $350 worth of replacement parts. In the final analysis
> my fuselage ended up very straight, but if you don't start with a correct
> foundation, and that is what you are doing now, you will be very sorry
> later. Please recheck the things I've mentioned.
>
> You can do it, and it will make sense eventually,
> Randy Lervold
> RV-8, #80500, spinner then cowling
> www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
| Subject: | RV6-A-QB Flap Alighnment |
List: I am just Finishing up my left wing and notice the flap seems to be
about 3\32 of an in. thicker than the aileron?
When the aileron is in the neutral position the flap and the aileron
are perfect on the bottom of the wing but the top of the flap versus the
aileron is a little thicker (3\32 in.)
Since the ailerons and flaps are prebuilt I am not sure if this will
cause a problem. Gap between the aileron and flap is perfect at 1\4 in. and
the right wing had no such problem.
It would seem the people in Malaysia made this flap a hair thicker
although hardly noticeable.
What say the list of been there done that builders?
Tom in Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Construction Videos For Sale |
Bob, They are not for prepunched, sorry. John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | aerobatic maneuvers |
Has Van's ever published an unofficial official list or their "thoughts" on
what constitutes "approved" and "prohibited" maneuvers for RVs?
I'm interested in knowing what maneuvers folks regularly perform and under
conditions they perform them. Such as strictly solo, half tanks or less,
etc.
Is there a comprehensive list of RV specific maneuver descriptions (entry
speeds, cardinal point speeds, Gs, etc)?
TIA,
lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kathy & Bill Peck" <peck(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Heat shielding and insulation |
Brian Denk and Denny Harjehausen have put a couple of good, valuable posts
up about problems with RV's, and avoiding those problems for the rest of us.
My comment applies to the design and care of heat shields in general, and
firesleeve in particular.
Firesleeve is a pretty darn good insulating material. It can do a lot to
keep the rate of heat transfer down from the outside to the inside of the
"hose". However - be careful about thinking of it as being a perfect
insulator. It still has some "R-value" less than infinity. What this means
to you, as an aircraft designer, is that if you are counting on an insulator
(whether it is firesleeve, an aluminum shield, fiberglass, or...) to keep
heat away from something, you need to have a place for what small amount of
heat energy that "leaks" through the insulator to go away. Otherwise, it
just takes longer for the protected piece to get to the same high
temperature as it would have without protection. (Of course, if the longer
time period is longer than your fuel capacity, you've also solved the
problem!) Firesleeve works very well on fuel and oil hoses because there is
a liquid flow inside the protected hose that carries that little bit of heat
"leakage" away - the oil may warm up a degree or two, but not the tens or
hundreds of degrees it might have seen with no firesleeve over the hose.
(This, by the way, may account for why firesleeve isn't always a solution
for vapor locking in a fuel system - when you shut down the engine, there's
no fuel flow. Now even with a slower rate of heat "leak" into the fuel
line, it may still vaporize enough fuel to cause a "trap" and keep the
pump(s) from pulling good liquid fuel through the system. This is the best
reason to try to keep fuel lines running downhill all the way from the tank
to the carb as a general practice, broken by my interest in flying a plane
with low wings and fuel tanks in those wings!) The point, here, though, is
that firesleeve over a control cable will not be as effective as it is over
a hose carrying flowing liquid. You're still slowing down the heat "flow",
but the cable's ability to conduct that heat away down the length of the
steel and plastic may not be enough to keep from having some trouble anyway.
BUT - if you can also provide a little cooling air in the area of that cable
(little blast tube like for cooling mags?) along with the insulation keeping
most of the "hot" away, now you've made some real progress.
Just keep in mind - insulation still leaks a little bit, and try to plan a
way to let that leakage go away without causing trouble, and you'll be home
free...
Bill & Kathy Peck - RV-6A flying (and I design commercial air-conditioning
equipment, so I've learned this insulation lesson several times!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
> Some have wrapped
> the exhaust with 'Thermopower Exhaust Wrap' that can be gotten
> through Aircraft Spruce and others. But that is expensive and has
> other side effects.
A note from personal experience. There are not to many things that there is
no way in hell I'll ever do again. Wrapping exhaust inside an engine
compartment is certianly one of those things. My last project before
building this plane is currently sitting in my driveway. I built a turbo
charged Porsche as my track/street car. 450hp, cage, suspension...yada
yada....it's a full blown GT-3 car. Anyway, I wrapped the exhaust to keep
the heat in for the turbo charger and keep it out of the engine compartment.
Exhaust wrap is not flammable.....however it is relatively absorbant in that
anything that gets on it soaks in....and stays there. Like OIL. I had a
small leak pop up and before I knew it I pulled over for gas (on the street
thank God) and there was smoke coming out from under the hood. I'm thinking
I must have popped a cooling hose or the oil filler cap came off....so I
open the hood and there are 2 foot flames coming off the exhaust which in
this car is about 1 foot beneath the rubber FUEL LINES. Natually there was
a 10 millisecond OH SHIT factor then the scramble for the fire extinguisher.
When I removed the exhaust wrap later that day (after a flat bed ride), I
found it soaked in oil. I was driving on the street so not very fast and
the turbo wasn't working much....otherwise the fire may have been worse.
In any event, Please don't wrap your exhaust.....you can't just pull over in
an airplane and reach for the extinguisher.....
Bill
-4 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aerobatic maneuvers |
> Has Van's ever published an unofficial official list or their
> "thoughts" on
> what constitutes "approved" and "prohibited" maneuvers for RVs?
>
> I'm interested in knowing what maneuvers folks regularly perform and
> under
> conditions they perform them. Such as strictly solo, half tanks or
> less,
> etc.
>
> Is there a comprehensive list of RV specific maneuver descriptions
> (entry
> speeds, cardinal point speeds, Gs, etc)?
>
> TIA,
> lucky
See the following for the "official" view:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/flyrvs.htm
Also there is an "Aerobatic Epistle" out there written by one of the
folks at Vans and published in one of the RVAtors. It has more of the
specific information you are looking for. I thought it was on their
web site but cannot find it at the moment.
I think you'll find that developed (multi-turn) spins and tail slides
are two maneuvers not recommended for the RV series due to rapid speed
build up and tail strength, respectively.
TTFN
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: G's verse Speed |
Kevin Brewster wrote:
>
>
> Please excuse my ignorance (student pilot), but could someone explain to me
> why turbulance induced G-forces increase with aircraft velocity?
>
> Yanking on the stick has a fairly intuitive effect, and I can understand the
> sqrt(G)*Vs rule because it is pretty obvious that at Vs you can only have
> 1G. And I am guessing that if you were to limit the control deflection to
> disallow exceeding max-G at Vno then you wouldn't have enough authority at
> Vs.
>
> In larger, faster commercial aircraft I assume the control forces prevent
> the pilot from exceeding the design G-limits. And in really fast planes
> like the F-16 the flight computer does not normally allow pilot induced
> destructive forces.
>
> But now with this turbulance thing - why don't the wings tear off when they
> hit a "bump" at 600 kts?
>
> I'd really like to understand this, lest I give myself a phobia of flying in
> anything but dead-calm!
>
> Kevin Brewster, M-II flap kit
> www.synelec.com.au/mustang
> Australia
>
Kevin,
The way it was explaned to me when I was a student follows:
It's not that the force of the gust increases with speed, it's the
ability of the airframe to respond to that gust that can bite you. The
way I understand it, (aero engineers please correct me if I'm wrong) a
2G bump at 120 kts is a 2G bump. A 10G bump at 120 kts stalls the wing.
A 10G bump at 200 kts bends or breaks the wing, because the wing can
produce much higher G loads before stalling at the higher speed. The
beginning of the yellow arc is where the wing can produce more G's than
it is designed to withstand.
Engineers, please correct me if I've misinterpreted what I was taught.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rywessel(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV6A Firewall Diagram |
I would definitely buy the DWG OP 12 r 2 from Van's. I believe that this
drawing comes with the optional wiring harness kit. The drawing explains the
best locations for the battery grounds, wiring runs, holes, and solenoids.
This is the $2 I have spent and a great time saver.
Robin Wessel
RV-6A starting canopy
Tigard, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine/ magneto question |
>
>>
>>Hi There,
>>
>>why does engine rpm drop slightly when one
>>turns off one of two magnetos? I've asked a mechanic
>>friend and he came up with various theories but
>>I'm not convinced with his answers.
>>
>>Seems to me that when two plugs fire the flame front
>>burns the compressed gas quicker because of two
>>point sources of ignition.
>>
>>Any clues for a newbie student?
>>
>>Bruce
>>
>>Bruce Stewart
>
>Bruce,
>
>I was hoping that an engine "expert" would jump in here. I tinkered
>on lots of engines as a kid, and managed to destroy a couple of them
>while learning a few lessons the hard way. I have a mechanical
>engineering degree. I've got about 1500 hrs heavy radial time, and a
>few hundred hours light aircraft time. I took a few hours of piston
>engine theory at test pilot school. But, I'm certainly not an engine
>expert.
>
>You are correct in stating that two plugs will burn the charge of
>fuel and air quicker. Engines make the most power if the maximum
>cylinder pressure occurs a few degrees after top dead centre (TDC).
>TDC is when the piston is at the top of its stroke. If only one plug
>fires, it takes longer to reach the maximum cylinder pressure, and
>this max pressure will occur later with respect to TDC, thus the
>engine makes less power. This is seen as a decrease in rpm.
>
>The above explanation is a bit over simplified, but it gets the point
>across. The full story would take many pages, and I'm not really
>qualified to try to explain all the gory details anyway.
>
>Take care,
The way the E-ignition guys explained it to me years ago
is that the flame front takes some time to propogate through
of the cylinder. If one ran a single plug, centered on the
piston, then the flames would sort fan out from the center . . .
Puting two plugs in offset from center inserts another
potential delay for chasing the fire all the way through
the enclosed volume. Firing two plug simultaneously
on opposite sides produces what manifests itself as an
apparent advancement of timing.
This is why it's important for the RPM drop on the two
mags be equal . . . this is a rough comparison of timing
that says they're both timed the same way. If one mag were
advanced a few degrees from the other, it may produce little
or no drop because it lights the fire so soon, that the other
mag contributes little if any to running the race.
This effect speaks to the selection of run-up speed for
testing the mags. Since flame propogation speeds are
influenced by manifold pressure. Lower pressures produce
slower speeds. At idle, the manifold pressure is very combined
with slow engine speed . . . the effect of turning off one
mag may be difficult to detect. At full power, the manifold
pressures are high and turning off one mag may induce detonation
because the pressure wave due to combustion travels faster
than the flame front. Unburned fuel ahead of the flame
may ingnite explosively due to diesel effect instead of the
steadily increasing burn we'd like to have. The magneto
test RPMs are high enough to demonstrate the effect but
safely remote from potential damage to the engine.
Depending on how conservative the manufacturer is for magneto
timing, they may suggest an adjustment that prevents detonation
even at full throttle, hot environment and single ignition source.
This further compromises overall performance even when
both mags are operational. If the emergency procedures don't
suggest reduced manifold pressures for single magneto ops
then this the likely scenario.
These effects combine to produce the compromise in magneto
ignition performance that electronic ignition proposes
to fix. By allowing us to put lots of advance on the spark
at high-altitude and full throttle operations, we get a chance
to use all the BTU's the fuel will produce yet protect the
engine from damage by pulling the timing back toward TDC
when manifold pressures are high.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine/ magneto question |
> why does engine rpm drop slightly when one
> turns off one of two magnetos?
I had planned on quoting a few lines from the Sky Ranch Engineering Manual
but there are way too many that apply. Your answer, as you already nearly
have, is found in Chapter 3 about page 165.
Somewhere I once read that historically two plugs per cylinder were used not
for redundancy but to get all the fuel air mixture to burning sooner in
those big cylinders. I suspect a lighter weight engine with less mass to
keep unburned mix from heating so fast contributes to the problem.
The mix is set on fire at the plug and burns relatively "slowly". That is,
it does not explode or burn all at the same instant. Modern engines use
various tricks to get the burning mix swirling to help speed the flame
front.
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK
________________________________________________________________________________
EL LOBO,
I just messed up ( again ) and deleted your message.
Could you send it, again, only to me at< lm4(at)juno.com>. I am saving these
wonderful prose to be published later in our Chapt. 44 news letter.
Thanks in advance.
Larry Mac Donald
Rochester, N.Y.
empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: G's verse Speed |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Denny Harjehausen" <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: G's verse Speed
>
>
> >In larger, faster commercial aircraft I assume the control forces prevent
> >the pilot from exceeding the design G-limits. And in really fast planes
> >like the F-16 the flight computer does not normally allow pilot induced
> >destructive forces.
> >
> >But now with this turbulance thing - why don't the wings tear off when
they
> >hit a "bump" at 600 kts?
>
> In the commercial aircraft it has happened, though extremely rare
situation.
> Just as severe turbulance is a rare happening. Though it seem severe to me
> several time in my career, in reality what is described by most pilots as
> severe is actually moderate. Severe, the instrument or anything else
can't
> be read. I was only in severe turbulance once in 35 years. When it got
> anywhere
> close to being moderate it concern me to point I was looking another plan
of
> action fast. We were often limited at altitude on speed to the high and
low
> speed stall, 'coffin corner' areas.
>
> I am a strong believer in slowing it down in turbulance!
>
>
> Have a good one!
> Denny
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-A-QB Flap Alighnment |
> List: I am just Finishing up my left wing and notice the flap seems to be
> about 3\32 of an in. thicker than the aileron?
Tolerances again.
It will either be thicker or thinner, the odds of having them both be
perfectly the same are right down there at zero. I'm speaking of billionths
of an inch, of course. The question then is "what is the tolerance for the
thickness of the aileron and the flap?"
If the aileron is 3/64ths too thin and the flap is the same amount too
thick, then the difference is 3/32.
Someday, we all need to work together to establish some tolerances for our
RVs many of which can be found in the archives already.
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aerobatic maneuvers |
>
>
>Has Van's ever published an unofficial official list or their "thoughts" on
>what constitutes "approved" and "prohibited" maneuvers for RVs?
>
>I'm interested in knowing what maneuvers folks regularly perform and under
>conditions they perform them. Such as strictly solo, half tanks or less,
>etc.
>
I have done the following maneuvers:
Cuban 8
1/2 Cuban 8
1/2 Reverse Cuban 8
Loop
Roll
upright spin.
I use 165mph indicated for looping maneuvers, with a 4 G pull on entry and
exit. Rolls are done at 140 mph. These are done solo, with full fuel, I am
just under max aerobatic gross weight. The plane that is...not me
personally. ;)
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Unloading / Decrating 6AQB |
Fellow listers...
I have just gotten word from Van's that my 6AQB is almost ready for
shipping.
Having already perused the archives I have a rough idea of what I plan to
do...
The kit is being shipped Roadway to their local terminal in the Dallas area.
I will be renting a longbed truck (or something like that) to go and get the
crates from the Roadway terminal. I'll park this in the alley behind my
house to uncrate/unload directly into the garage from the truck.
The question is: How many people do I need in order to safely remove the
wings and fuselage from their respective crates? I think that two can
handle a wing (one at a time) and that I should have six for the fuselage.
Next, other than space, are there any requirements for how to place the
wings/fuselage? I think that the wings come in a crate that can be used for
storage but I haven't found anything on how to set the fuselage. I guess
that this would be at about the same stage as someone taking their fuselage
out of their jig. The manual simply states "saw-horses or any sort of
stands or cradles".
Any ideas while I keep looking would be appreciated. I KNOW that someone
out there has already done this!
Ralph Capen
RV6AQB Slider with my Empennage Spar collection...N822AR Dallas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-A-QB Flap Alighnment |
>
>List: I am just Finishing up my left wing and notice the flap seems to be
>about 3\32 of an in. thicker than the aileron?
> When the aileron is in the neutral position the flap and the aileron
>are perfect on the bottom of the wing but the top of the flap versus the
>aileron is a little thicker (3\32 in.)
> Since the ailerons and flaps are prebuilt I am not sure if this will
>cause a problem. Gap between the aileron and flap is perfect at 1\4 in. and
>the right wing had no such problem.
> It would seem the people in Malaysia made this flap a hair thicker
>although hardly noticeable.
> What say the list of been there done that builders?
>
> Tom in Ohio
>
Tom,
You are worrying too much. This 3/32 difference in thickness is of
zero concern from an aerodynamic point of view. From a cosmetic
point of view, at the final assembly stage, you'll try to rig things
so the upper surfaces of the flap and aileron are even. I doubt that
most people would even see a 3/32 misalignment anyway unless they got
down on their hands and knees and stared at it. If I catch any
builders down on their hands and knees looking for flaws on my RV-8 I
might accidentally step on their hands to distract them :-)
Leave well enough alone and keep going until you find something
bigger to worry about,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: aerobatic maneuvers |
>>
>>Has Van's ever published an unofficial official list or their "thoughts"
on
>>what constitutes "approved" and "prohibited" maneuvers for RVs?
>>
>>I'm interested in knowing what maneuvers folks regularly perform and under
>>conditions they perform them. Such as strictly solo, half tanks or less,
>>etc.
>>
From my RV-6/6A manual.
Loops, Horizontal Eights: 140-190 mph
Immelman Turns: 150-190 mph
Aileron Rolls, Barrel rolls: 120-190 mph
Snap Rolls: 80-110 mph
Vertical Rolls: 180-190 mph
Split-S: 100-110 mph
There is also a good deal of discussion of the differences in flying
aerobatics in RV's versus other aerobatic airplanes. "Because of its light
controls, the RV is a pilot-limited airplane. In other words, it is the
pilot's responsibility to avoid overstressing the airplane."
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying (this week to Utah, California, Wyoming, Oregon, Montana
and Colorado)
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Mark your calendars! |
Don't forget to mark your calendars for the Ninth Annual Northwest RV
Fly-in!
June 24 is the date, Scappoose, OR Airport (SPB) is the place.
Get all the details at http://www.edt.com/homewing/flyin00.html.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | cowl pins online photos |
Hello,
I have finally posted some online pictures of my method for securing the
side cowl pins. Here is a list of the links with a description of what
the photos shows. I hope it helps some other builders with their
projects. Please e-mail me directly if you have any questions or
comments about this method.
Sincerely,
Glenn Gordon
Please note:
THIS METHOD OF SECURING COWL PINS HAS NOT BEEN FLIGHT TESTED OR APPROVED
BY VANS AIRCRAFT. THESE PHOTOS ARE FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY. (I
learned that from a video I once saw)
PHOTO 1 http://people.ce.mediaone.net/foxinsocks/cowl_1.jpg
Shows the cowl pin in its secured position. Note the 90 degree bend on
the end of the cowl pin actually sits within the wall of the cowling.
PHOTO 2 http://people.ce.mediaone.net/foxinsocks/cowl_2.jpg
Shows the 10-32 AN hold-down screw removed. The 10-32 screw threads
into a platenut which is on a small aluminum backup plate. The plate is
bonded and riveted to the cowling wall. The plate also serves to
discourage the slot in the cowl from growing.
PHOTO 3 http://people.ce.mediaone.net/foxinsocks/cowl_3.jpg
Shows the cowl pin rotated 45 degrees. Note the cowl pin has to rotate
an additional 45 degrees before it can be pulled straight out.
ADDITIONAL NOTES.
The pin cannot move fore or aft without pulling through the fiberglass
wall of the cowl.
The pin cannot rotate inward because of the aluminum backup plate.
The pin cannot rotate outward because of the head of the AN screw.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Tip=up rollbar color |
I am wondering what the general concensus is about the color of the rollbar
directly under the tip-up canopy on a 6. I was thinking about it being the
same color as my interior which is a cream color. The "problem" is that
this color is very apparent. I have half of the rollbar apinted the craem
and the othetr half is still in grey primer. Thr grey primer side blends in
with the canopy color better. I am leaning towards painting the top
surfaces of the rollbars the grey and the rest of the rollbar the interior
color. I like the way this color blends with the canopy so it appears as
one bubble from front to the baggage compartment. I believe those that are
putting a targa strip over this area are painting this the same color as the
exterior of the plane.
Ross Mickey
6-A N9PT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Glareshield Edge Material |
For those of you that have RV6s with sliding canopy, or RV8s, 4s, or 3s that
need an edge material to cover the edge of the glareshield for safety and
appearance, you can obtain the material in a 20 ft roll for $9.99 from J C
Whitney (listed in the yeller pages). The material is a flat black vinyl
7/16" wide that has internal clips that hold on to the metal. The Whitney
part number is: 89DX0791Y. It really looks great.
John Henley, N6LD, 350 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net> |
I am posting this for a fellow RVer (has a 6A flying) a PA12 on floats,a
Stinson,A Champ, a Luscombe sedan almost ready for paint and a hanger full
of all sorts of neat stuff.
If any of you RV6 builders have switched from a tip up canopy to a slider
and still have the F631 rear canopy bows and F-632 and would like to sell
them, he is interested in purchasing. He is also looking for an RV6 canopy
that has been cracked (depending on where the cracks are) he will be cutting
it into 3 or 4 pieces for another project.
Contact Rick Thorburn directly at home 250 545-5911 or work
250 545-0784 or work fax 250 545-0730. Sorry he is not on email.
Thanks
Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH
Salmon Arm B.C. First flight Sept 8, 1993
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pat_hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator and cracks from stiffeners |
Are:
The stiffeners on my RV-4 elevator measure over 1" from trailing edge to
last rivet, been flying for over 10 years, no cracks, so don't even worry
about it. Just make sure you have the RTV in place, though.
Pat Hatch
RV-4 N17PH @ VRB
RV-6, Fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: Are Barstad <abarstad(at)bconnex.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 10:59 PM
Subject: RV-List: Elevator and cracks from stiffeners
>
> I just finished back-riveting the stiffeners to the elevator skin and
> noticed that I had misread the plans. I measured 3/4 inch from the end of
> the stiffener (not TE) to the last rivet, so it resulted in 1 inch total
> from TE to the rivet. Will the extra 1/4-inch cause cracking? Does anyone
> have experience with this? I plan to use an O-360 with a C/S prop and
> aftermarket injection. The stiffeners themselves goes all the way back to
> the recommended 1/4- inch from TE though.
>
> It's too bad if I have to redo it since everything else turned out very
well
> (well, I think so anyways...)
>
> Regards,
> Are
> RV-6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shane@GUYA (was ebay FYI) |
LARRY
i may have mistyped his e-bay name. it is suppose to be GQYA. Shanes e-mail
address is sgoedvolk(at)sprint.ca . tell him scott sent ya.
scott
tampa fl.
rv6a tipper
canopy latching mech.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Hughes" <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: G's verse Speed |
Absolutely! Overspeeds (like gear, flaps, etc) can be deferred for a few
flights or hours (depending on the severity), but sever turb will ground the
plane. As previously posted, severe turb is rare.
Keith Hughes
Parker, CO
(My other plane is Boeing)
> Is it true that airliners that encounter severe turbulance require a
> structural inspection before further flight?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Glareshield Edge Material |
In a message dated 6/11/00 2:03:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Rv6plt(at)cs.com
writes:
<< For those of you that have RV6s with sliding canopy, or RV8s, 4s, or 3s
that
need an edge material to cover the edge of the glareshield for safety and
appearance, you can obtain the material in a 20 ft roll for $9.99 from J C
Whitney (listed in the yeller pages). The material is a flat black vinyl
7/16" wide that has internal clips that hold on to the metal. The Whitney
part number is: 89DX0791Y. It really looks great. >>
Caution: There are different types of this edge material, some with metal
core (clips). I don't know about the J. C. Whitney stuff but if you have a
compass that you plan to hang on the center down tube of the 6A slider, you
should ensure that you get the aluminum (as opposed to the steel) cored vinyl
material.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Glareshield Edge Material |
I used a length of black rubber hose, slit and slipped over the glareshield
edge. It also secures the edge of the grey carpet I used on the glareshield.
It looks very nice and a strip of thin garment leather could be glued to
it with rubber cement to dress it up if desired. For pics go to my webpage.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
101 hrs.
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9656/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust wrap |
My RV-6 will be 3 years old in September. It has
flown 573.0 hours. All but the first 75 of those
hours have had Exhaust Wrap purchased from Aircraft
Spruce installed over most of the exhaust. No welds
or expansion joints are wrapped.
Frank Donnelly RV-3A N66GB put exhaust wrap on his
exhaust after he purchased the airplane. (Over 10
years ago.) It now is reported to have +1,600 hours
TT. He was the fasted RV around (Sun-N-Fun Race late
80's early 90's) until Dave Anders RV-4 started
racing.
A professional Aerobatic pilot that I know (Name
withheld as he does not want any of his trade secrets
out) uses Exhaust Wrap on his AEIO-540 powered Zlin.
As far as my limited experience with exhaust wrap, it
is one of the best inventions for airplanes that I
have seen. It does lower the under cowl temperature
and was the biggest help in eliminating Vapor Lock on
the ground in my airplane. My airplane vapor locked
on the ground 3 times during the first 100 hours. It
has not vapor locked since trying the exhaust wrap.
All fuel lines were Firesleaved since before the first
flight. I also have lower oil temperatures since the
exhaust wrap. In the 84 F degree California heat
today, I did my 2nd hour of FAA Wings today and did 11
takeoff and landings with an instructor in 1.1 hours.
Oil temp never went above 198 F. Not many RVs can say
that.
The "Old Wives Tale" about exhaust wrap wearing out
exhaust systems is a lie. If someone tales you this,
get his name and tail number. If it were true, the
lower temperatures that I see are worth the cost of a
new exhaust system every 5 years or 500 flying hours.
FAA A & P
EAA Tech Counselor
NRA Life Member
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
Flying So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Glareshield Edge Material |
In a message dated 6/11/00 7:20:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
akroguy(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< I used a length of black rubber hose, slit and slipped over the
glareshield
edge. It also secures the edge of the grey carpet I used on the glareshield.
>>
I felt like something with a little more impact resistance than rubber or
vinyl was necessary in case of accident and that sharp glareshield edge came
back to meet my forehead. Tony Bingalas(spelling?) showed how to split a
peice of al. tube and use it on the edge of the glareshield. It makes me fill
more comfortable with that edge!
Bernie Kerr, 6A N60WM 17 hours of grin time, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com> |
Anyone have the videos for the RV-6 that they can part with? I'm working on the
empennage, so it would be nice (but not
necessary)...I have the wing kit ordered, so that's the one I'm looking for right
now....if you have the rest of them, I'd be
willing to buy them as a package deal.
Semper Fi
John Lawson
Plugging along on the VS and rudder and elevators
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid AP needed |
My buddy Walter Treadwell (79 years old and the builder of the 55% P-38
replica) is interested in getting a Navaid wing leveler installed ASAP in his
Alley Cat (mini-Pawnee replica) so as to make a flight to Aspen, Colorado
this summer to visit his daughter. Trouble is, there is a six month lead
time on Navaids at this time. He is willing to pay $1400 for normal or $1550
for built in handheld GPS coupler units with the arm type servo box (ala std
RV) new in original packaging if you are willing to part with yours. If
anyone can help him out call him at 925-443-7301 days.
Thanks,
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust wrap |
> My RV-6 will be 3 years old in September. It has
> flown 573.0 hours. All but the first 75 of those
> hours have had Exhaust Wrap purchased from Aircraft
> Spruce installed over most of the exhaust. No welds
> or expansion joints are wrapped.
Well, since you are an A&P I'll assume you have read up on this. I am glad
none of the 3 people you mentioned have had any trouble with exhaust
wrap.....they have obviously never experienced an oil leak onto the exhaust.
I however have, and I can introduce you to several others who have had the
same experience. When the oil soaks into material, it stays there.....and
when/if it ignites, there is plenty of it there to keep it burning. Think
about it, it only makes sense. Call OG Racing, Summit Racing, Huntley
Racing or any of the well known GT teams and ask them about exhaust wraps
and oil fires. Better yet, take a small piece of exhaust wrap and dunk it
in oil.....now see if you can get that oil out....now light it and see what
happens. A nice oil fire ensues....I've seen it, ignited by nothing more
than the heat of my exhaust. I will grant that the amount of air blasting
through the cowl at cruise probably keeps the exhaust to cool to ignite the
oil (or does it?) but after a flight....during taxi?
If you want to reduce under cowl temps by wrapping your exhaust, then join
the 90's and coat the exhaust with ceramic. There are a number of companies
out there that will do this for you. Jet hot ( http://www.jet-hot.com/ )is
the most well known. The stuff does work, I switched to it after the fire
and am quite happy with both spool up and temp control.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Ludwig" <ludwig(at)azstarnet.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for Herb Ross |
Anyone who knows how to get in touch with Herb Ross (used to live in
Tucson - maybe still does), please send me the info.
Thanks,
- Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Glareshield Edge Material |
> I felt like something with a little more impact resistance than
> rubber or
> vinyl was necessary in case of accident and that sharp glareshield
> edge came
> back to meet my forehead. Tony Bingalas(spelling?) showed how to
> split a
> peice of al. tube and use it on the edge of the glare shield. It
makes
> me fill
> more comfortable with that edge!
Folks hereabouts (Central Texas - Tony's back yard) are using foam pipe
insulation covered with naugahide, split and glue to the glare shield.
In fact Tony's -6A has this glareshield edge treatment.
Seems like it would work well.
I have to wonder if a shoulder harness would let your head get that far
forward...
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Meacham" <bruceme(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Damaged Wood Prop |
_ALWAYS_ avoid rain with a wood prop!
I knew it would cause damage at high RPM, but decided I could make the trip
in the soggy Northwest rain anyway using low power settings. I cruised at
2050RPM and was never over 2200. Not good enough! The wood obviously
swelled and there's a three inch by one inch section of bare wood on the
leading edge of my Warke prop. A thin 1/32 layer of wood has been rain
blasted away.
Question #1: Is this repairable? I've read posts about dent repairs in
wood props. This doesn't appear nearly that bad. All that's really needed
is a new code of laminant.
Question #2: Should I ship it to Bernie Warke or find a local prop
specialist? Does anyone have repair expirence with Bernie?
Bruce Meacham
RV-3 3456B
www.seanet.com/~bruceme/ShotGun.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aquila33(at)webtv.net (dann mann) |
| Subject: | Re: Damaged Wood Prop |
Better to send it back to the manufacturer. If someone unfamiliar with
his props worked on it they might use incompatible coatings or cause
some pitch change by modifying the airfoil with poor practices. Don't
risk it. If that thing vibrates itself to pieces you could do further
damage to your plane or person or someone else.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Loctite (tm) 242 and nylon lock nuts |
Stefan King wrote:
>
> After getting various answers about Loctite (242), the
> blue stuff, from various engineering experts that I
> know who use this stuff in military electronics
> assemblies, I took another listers' advice and I
> contacted the tech support department at Loctite,
> specifically asking them about the compatibility of
> this product with stainless steel nylon-insert lock
> nuts/bolts.
>
> What I found out was very interesting...
>
> Although it won't hurt the nylon insert, the stuff
> won't cure properly on stainless steel hardware unless
> you use the proper primer first.
>
> Bottom line: if you're not following the proper
> application technique, it looks as though you're
> wasting your time, and your Loctite (tm) 242...
>
> Regards,
>
> Stefan
> Sanford, FL
>
> PS: the following is the reply I got from tech
> support, quite promptly I might add:
>
> From: Catherine Scoville
> [mailto:Catherine_Scoville(at)loctite.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 2:59 PM
> Subject: Tech Services Web Inquiry 6-9-0904 CS
>
> Stefan,
>
> Generally, anaerobic materials (such as 242) will not
> adversely affect nylon. It
> is always important to check the compatibility of
> Loctite with your specific
> plastic. Another issue is that neither of the
> substrates you're using (stainless
> steel and nylon) are "active": that is, contain active
> metal ions. This is
> necessary for the 242 to cure. So while the 242 may
> not harm the nylon, it won't
> cure on either surface without a primer, such as
> Primer T 7471 or Primer N 7649.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cathy
Boy! I been wondering why that stuff never got past teh runny stage on my
SS screws. I just thought I had a bad batch.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Glareshield Edge Material |
Also, I believe Cleaveland sells an edge strip as well.
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: Sunday, June 11, 2000 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Glareshield Edge Material
>
>In a message dated 6/11/00 2:03:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Rv6plt(at)cs.com
>writes:
>
><< For those of you that have RV6s with sliding canopy, or RV8s, 4s, or 3s
>that
> need an edge material to cover the edge of the glareshield for safety and
> appearance, you can obtain the material in a 20 ft roll for $9.99 from J C
> Whitney (listed in the yeller pages). The material is a flat black vinyl
> 7/16" wide that has internal clips that hold on to the metal. The Whitney
> part number is: 89DX0791Y. It really looks great. >>
>
>Caution: There are different types of this edge material, some with metal
>core (clips). I don't know about the J. C. Whitney stuff but if you have a
>compass that you plan to hang on the center down tube of the 6A slider, you
>should ensure that you get the aluminum (as opposed to the steel) cored
vinyl
>material.
>
>-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
>vanremog(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Glareshield Edge Material |
> I felt like something with a little more impact resistance than rubber or
> vinyl was necessary in case of accident and that sharp glareshield edge
came
> back to meet my forehead.
I just cut off all that knife edge above the panel. I figured that in an
accident that might cut clear thru my headbone and into the brain, spilling
it. I still haven't decided what to replace it with but it will be
something like dashboard carpet (oh,oh, automotive!) over cardboard or some
thin plastic like royallite?
The upper inch of my panel is reserved for a rubber cushion at least an inch
thick. It really needs to be quite firm so as to cushion some shock without
compressing all the way. Also it should not cause the head to bounce back
into the tail cone! Something that crushes more readily than the head cuts
and absorbs energy is needed. Maybe something firmer than blue foam but not
as firm as balsa?
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: aerobatic maneuvers |
>
>One of the respondents said they had performed snap rolls but I don't see
>that mentioned anywhere. Anyone else doing them? What's the RV technique
>for them?
>
Snap rolls are mentioned on the list of maneuvers published in the RV-6/6A
manual that I quoted earlier.
I enter them at about 80 knots, which is within the recommended range. Full
back stick and full rudder, try to figure out how much lead is required to
recover wings level. Is there another way?
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Bendix Fuel Injection Problems |
I'm gettting ready for my first engine run so I did a leak check on my
fuel system. When I turn the electric fuel pump on with the mixture in idle
cutoff (At least what I think is idle cutoff) fuel spews from the drainage
holes in my airbox. It doesn't seem to do this in full rich. The way I
assumed (dooh!) that the mixture worked was full clockwise (at the injector)
is idle cutoff. I put the arm on top so it wouldn't hit the airbox so the
arm comes forward for idle cutoff. I also put the fuel inlet on the left side
so it wouldn't interfer with the mixture arm. Can someone confirm for me on
their engine that clockwise is idle cutoff. Also, should the fuel injector
ever leak out the bottom with the fuel pump on, even in full rich. This is a
Bart Lolande engine and hasn't been run yet. I haven't had a chance to pull
the airbox yet to determine the exact leak location. Thanks in advance.
Dave Beizer
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Damaged Wood Prop |
Bruce Meacham wrote:
>
>
> _ALWAYS_ avoid rain with a wood prop!
>
> I knew it would cause damage at high RPM, but decided I could make the trip
> in the soggy Northwest rain anyway using low power settings. I cruised at
> 2050RPM and was never over 2200. Not good enough! The wood obviously
> swelled and there's a three inch by one inch section of bare wood on the
> leading edge of my Warke prop. A thin 1/32 layer of wood has been rain
> blasted away.
>
> Question #1: Is this repairable? I've read posts about dent repairs in
> wood props. This doesn't appear nearly that bad. All that's really needed
> is a new code of laminant.
>
> Question #2: Should I ship it to Bernie Warke or find a local prop
> specialist? Does anyone have repair expirence with Bernie?
>
> Bruce Meacham
> RV-3 3456B
> www.seanet.com/~bruceme/ShotGun.htm
>
Bruce,
Bernie hasn't been with us for several years. His daughter is selling
props; she advertises in the back of several magazines. She might be
able to help you, since she started as his assistant.
Good luck getting it fixed. My 1st Warnke was the best prop I've ever
owned.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Orndorff videos |
i too looking for wing videos (prepunched). bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Damaged Wood Prop |
Unfortunately Bernie has passed away to that great prop shop in the sky. His
daughter now runs the biz...she has ads in Sport Aviation every
month....mentions in the ad that they do recondition props. If she does biz
like her father did you will have no problems. I love my Warnke prop and how
Bernie did business.
RV6A Flying
Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PANELCUT(at)aol.com |
Matt
I have the panel done except for Engraving your N number on the overlay. I
need to know where you want me to locate it on the panel. Please let me know
as quick as you can and I can get it shipped to you. After I engrave the
number and get some pictures of the machine engraving I will e-mail you the
pictures so you can finish your page. Sorry about the delay My mother had
surgery and I haven't been in the shop much.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Glareshield Edge Material |
> > vinyl was necessary in case of accident and that sharp glareshield
> > edge came
> > back to meet my forehead. Tony Bingalas(spelling?) showed how to
> > split a
> > peice of al. tube and use it on the edge of the glare shield. It
> makes
> > me fill
> > more comfortable with that edge!
>
>
> Folks hereabouts (Central Texas - Tony's back yard) are
> using foam pipe
> insulation covered with naugahide, split and glue to the
> glare shield.
> In fact Tony's -6A has this glareshield edge treatment.
> Seems like it would work well.
>
My personal preference for the edge of the glare shield is a 3/8"
diameter aluminum tube. In November 1998, I posted instructions on
how to install the tube. Check the archives. If you want to see what
mine looks like, there is a picture of it in the RVator, First Issue,
1999, page 11.
Mark Nielsen
RV-6; 527 hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Gretz <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com> |
RV List ,
list-glasair ,
list-lancair ,
list-rocket ,
list-rv8
| Subject: | Gretz Aero Products website up again |
Greeting to the list,
I was having some problems with my online order form, but I am glad to
report it is back up and running.
If you check out my website at the address of:
http://www.gretzaero.com and you wish to place an online order it
will now be working correctly.
By the way, I have a new shippment of HEATED PITOT TUBES, and my
MOUNTING BRACKET KITS ready for shippment as always.
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PANELCUT(at)aol.com |
Listers
I'm sorry about the delay getting the rest of the badges done. My mother had
emergency surgery and I have been out of the shop for the last couple of
weeks. I haven't had a chance to finish the rest of them. I have had a few
calls for panels that I have not been able to return, sorry I will get to
you, things are getting back to normal now. I posted a message to Matt about
his panel to the list by mistake, sorry I hope this didn't confuse anyone. I
should start shipping the rest of the badges this week so please be patient
you should be getting them soon.
Thanks
Steve Davis
The Panel Pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Cantrell <kcflyrv(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: aerobatic maneuvers |
I'll start by saying I'm probably 1 to 2 years away from flying my RV6 but
I'd just like to warn those interested in snap rolling their RV. Many years
ago I owned and flew a Pitts S-1-C. I enjoyed hundreds of hours of
aerobatics including many variations of snap rolls. This airplane snapped
great. At the correct airspeed, this aircraft did snap rolls the way they
were intended. I just want to caution RV pilots to be very careful with this
type of maneuver. As stated before, 80 knots is probably safe for this kind
of maneuver in an RV but it would be sloppy and my suggestion would be to
stick to "controlled" maneuvers. Ever since the terrible accident of N58RV,
it was my opinion that it was likely this kind of maneuver, attempted at an
airspeed much higher than 80 knots by someone unfamiliar with RV's that
caused the accident. A snap roll is a violent maneuver but done correctly in
the right a/c can be a part of your presision aerobatic routine. As I
mentioned, all of this is just my opion but I also believe there is no
perfect aircraft. However, the RVs do a great job of satisfying most of our
desires exceptionally well. I don't plan on snapping my RV but I do plan on
enjoying many other aerobatic maneuvers as well as X-country and lots of
general sport flying.
Do not archieve.
Ken Cantrell
RV6 finish kit
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: aerobatic maneuvers
>
>
> >
> >One of the respondents said they had performed snap rolls but I don't see
> >that mentioned anywhere. Anyone else doing them? What's the RV
technique
> >for them?
> >
>
>
> Snap rolls are mentioned on the list of maneuvers published in the RV-6/6A
> manual that I quoted earlier.
>
> I enter them at about 80 knots, which is within the recommended range.
Full
> back stick and full rudder, try to figure out how much lead is required to
> recover wings level. Is there another way?
>
> Larry Pardue
> Carlsbad, NM
>
> RV-6 N441LP Flying
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip=up rollbar color |
I'm painting mine the same color as the upper exterior of my RV6A tip up;
white. The luggage floor and sidewalls, seatpans, and panel will also be
white. Real easy to see things down there.
Possibly doing a targa strip, haven't decided. I'm almost there.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
> I am wondering what the general concensus is about the color of the
rollbar
> directly under the tip-up canopy on a 6. I was thinking about it being
the
> same color as my interior which is a cream color. The "problem" is that
> this color is very apparent. I have half of the rollbar apinted the craem
> and the othetr half is still in grey primer. Thr grey primer side blends
in
> with the canopy color better. I am leaning towards painting the top
> surfaces of the rollbars the grey and the rest of the rollbar the interior
> color. I like the way this color blends with the canopy so it appears as
> one bubble from front to the baggage compartment. I believe those that
are
> putting a targa strip over this area are painting this the same color as
the
> exterior of the plane.
>
> Ross Mickey
> 6-A N9PT
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Glareshield Edge Material |
In a message dated 6/11/00 9:21:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
grobdriver(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< I have to wonder if a shoulder harness would let your head get that far
forward...
>>
You head doesn't need to go forward in a crash for the glareshield to get
you, the cockpit can compress!
Bernie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Glareshield Edge Material(credit to Mark Nielsen) |
In a message dated 6/12/00 12:49:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Mark.Nielsen@fiedler-lp.com writes:
<<
> Folks hereabouts (Central Texas - Tony's back yard) are
> using foam pipe
> insulation covered with naugahide, split and glue to the
> glare shield.
> In fact Tony's -6A has this glareshield edge treatment.
> Seems like it would work well.
>
My personal preference for the edge of the glare shield is a 3/8"
diameter aluminum tube. In November 1998, I posted instructions on
how to install the tube. Check the archives. If you want to see what
mine looks like, there is a picture of it in the RVator, First Issue,
1999, page 11.
>>
It was Mark's idea that I used and not Tony's
Bernie Kerr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com |
| Subject: | Carb and fuel pump for sale |
I have a factory-new carburetor and (low pressure) fuel pump from one of Van's
Lycoming 0-360 A1A's for sale. The price for the carburetor is $600 O.B.O. and
$100 O.B.O. for the pump. The engine is due to arrive at my shop on June 19th.
If anyone wants these items, I can quickly remove them and make arrangements to
ship them. Please respond to me off-line at Pichon.Dean(at)ADLittle.com or (617)
498-6525.
Dean Pichon
RV-4
601RD (reserved)
waiting for the engine
**** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc. and may contain
confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee
only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not
the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible.****
________________________________________________________________________________
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
| Subject: | Re: Orndorff videos |
| From: | Denis Walsh <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net> |
on 6/11/00 21:19, Bobpaulo(at)aol.com at Bobpaulo(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> i too looking for wing videos (prepunched). bob
>
>
>
>
>
>
George and Becki are on the list. You can have them with the speed of heat!
--
Denis L.(Bum) Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nancy and Walter Shipley" <wshipley(at)esper.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Unloading / Decrating 6AQB |
---------
> Ralph Capen wrote:
>
> I have just gotten word from Van's that my 6AQB is almost ready for
> shipping.
>
> The question is: How many people do I need in order to safely remove the
> wings and fuselage from their respective crates? I think that two can
> handle a wing (one at a time) and that I should have six for the
fuselage.
Ralph, two people are quite adequate for each wing. The fuselage can easily
be handled by three people (two at front, one at rear).
> Next, other than space, are there any requirements for how to place the
> wings/fuselage? I think that the wings come in a crate that can be used
for
> storage but I haven't found anything on how to set the fuselage.
The wing crate is handy to store the wings. Use sawhorses to rest the
fuselage on. I shortened the legs of the front sawhorse so it would be
easier to work inside the fuselage. Use lots of padding under the
sawhorses, and be sure to place the rear sawhorse directly under a
bulkhead, the skin is rather thin back there. If you have the bucks,
consider steel rotating stands such as the ones sold by AC Spruce.
> Any ideas while I keep looking would be appreciated. I KNOW that someone
> out there has already done this.
Good luck, Ralph, get ready for a roller coaster ride; You're gonna love
it, hate it, be exasperated as hell, and always challenged. Just don't let
the little stuff get cha down.
Walt Shipley
RV8A Q Fuselage/Finish
>
> Ralph Capen
> RV6AQB Slider with my Empennage Spar collection...N822AR Dallas
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Unloading / Decrating 6AQB |
| From: | "Robert Dickson" <bubba(at)coastalnet.com> |
Ralph
I just did exactly what you're about to do last Wednesday, except that
Roadway has a terminal here in town and delivered the boxes directly to my
garage. The fuse box is the biggest box I've ever seen, about 4'X4'X16'.
Luckily, it's mostly air inside (EXPENSIVE air!). The trucker put the rear
of the truck about 15-20 ft infront of the garage, then 2 of us pushed the
box over the edge of the truck where 5 guys lowered that end to the ground
onto a pallet jack. We then worked the box out of the truck until it was
barley resting on the truck bed. 6 guys picked up that end with one at the
other end handling the pallet jack, and we just rolled it right in to the
garage. The wing box comes with the wings on edge - we just carried the
whole box into the garage. 4 guys can do this without much trouble.
It might be easier to leave the boxes in the driveway and unpack them there,
but I wasn't sure how long it would take to unpack them, and I really didn't
have anything prepared to store the wings. It worked out ok in my garage
since I was just using half to build the tail. The whole unloading operation
only took a few minutes. (several hours for unpacking/inventory)
This unloading technique was suggested by Van's crating dept. He said four
guys on one end of the fuse box, but I would suggest 5 or six. Hope this
helps.
Robert Dickson
Fayetteville NC
one elevator to go, then on to QB!
----------
>From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>To: "RV-LIST"
>Subject: RV-List: Unloading / Decrating 6AQB
>Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000, 1:36 PM
>
>
> Fellow listers...
>
> I have just gotten word from Van's that my 6AQB is almost ready for
> shipping.
>
> Having already perused the archives I have a rough idea of what I plan to
> do...
>
> The kit is being shipped Roadway to their local terminal in the Dallas area.
> I will be renting a longbed truck (or something like that) to go and get the
> crates from the Roadway terminal. I'll park this in the alley behind my
> house to uncrate/unload directly into the garage from the truck.
>
> The question is: How many people do I need in order to safely remove the
> wings and fuselage from their respective crates? I think that two can
> handle a wing (one at a time) and that I should have six for the fuselage.
>
> Next, other than space, are there any requirements for how to place the
> wings/fuselage? I think that the wings come in a crate that can be used for
> storage but I haven't found anything on how to set the fuselage. I guess
> that this would be at about the same stage as someone taking their fuselage
> out of their jig. The manual simply states "saw-horses or any sort of
> stands or cradles".
>
> Any ideas while I keep looking would be appreciated. I KNOW that someone
> out there has already done this!
>
> Ralph Capen
> RV6AQB Slider with my Empennage Spar collection...N822AR Dallas
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Pushrod question |
Any helpful data on pushrods? I know it's a pretty mundane question for
most builders but it's new to me.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: pcondon(at)csc.com [mailto:pcondon(at)csc.com]
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 7:24 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Pushrod question
I too looked in the RV-4 manual...nothing. I found some
helpful data in my RV-8
plans. I purchaced the RV-8 (small binder version) plans set
and found the
interveining 15 years (between the RV-4 and RV-8 plans) a
great help on the
minutia items and points of detail.... Not there is anything
specifically wrong
or bad with RV-4 plans.....I just found the exrta set of
plans to throw a
different light on my problem of the day......
svanarts(at)unionsafe.com on 06/08/2000 02:23:31 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Pushrod question
I am installing my control stick and associated push rods.
Where would I
find information on properly securing the rod end bearings
and jam nuts? I
tried to RTFM but I didn't fund much in the RV-4 manual.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
Just wanted to say that I was able to successfully identify Laird Owens (and
he was able to id. me) at the Bakersfield BBQ thanks to Steve's badges.
Just like a parachute, the badges don't work if you don't wear them!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: PANELCUT(at)aol.com [mailto:PANELCUT(at)aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 9:13 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Badge Update
I'm sorry about the delay getting the rest of the badges
done. My mother had
emergency surgery and I have been out of the shop for the
last couple of
weeks. I haven't had a chance to finish the rest of them. I
have had a few
calls for panels that I have not been able to return, sorry
I will get to
you, things are getting back to normal now. I posted a
message to Matt about
his panel to the list by mistake, sorry I hope this didn't
confuse anyone. I
should start shipping the rest of the badges this week so
please be patient
you should be getting them soon.
Thanks
Steve Davis
The Panel Pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel tank sender |
Mike, check the achieves there have been a number of posts regarding the
cover gaskets leaking. Some people are installing them without gaskets
and using proseal instead.
Garry, RV6, N297DG reserved
Mike Comeaux wrote
Is it required to put any sealant on cork gasket that sending unit is
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel tank sender |
> Is it required to put any sealant on cork gasket that sending unit is
> mounted on. Before final install to wing? RV6A-QB
I used the cork gasket and proseal on both sides. The gasket is probably not
necessary if you use proseal but that's the way I did it.
This will probably start another proseal vs gasket thread, so let me just
say here that a lot of leaky tank reports have ended up being around the
gasket when someone tried to use something other than proseal to seal the
senders/access covers. I decided I'd rather have peace of mind that it
wouldn't leak there than to try to make it easier to remove. And based on
reports from people who have removed them, its not that hard to do anyway.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~100 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tip=up rollbar color |
Norm wrote:
<< I'm painting mine the same color as the upper exterior of my RV6A tip up;
white. The luggage floor and sidewalls, seatpans, and panel will also be
white. Real easy to see things down there. >>
Norm: before you do this, sit in (or fly in) an RV 6 or 6A done in a light
interior color. I think you will be bothered by the reflections inside the
canopy. My 6A interior is largely almond (a Rustoleum stock color) and I
already wish it was darker for this reason. At least my carpet and
upholstery is deep red and the sidewall panels once installed will be tan.
I'd caution against white interior if visibility outside is a priority. You
might get used to it, but it would likely spoil photography through the
canopy, etc.
Bill B RV-6A 115 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Winters <dwinters(at)acraline.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 Control Problems/Loctite (tm) |
Actually, Loctite is an anaerobic thread locking compound. It is activated
in the *absence* of air. The loctite that gets trapped in the threads is
the only portion that will contribute to the thread locking properties. The
stuff will not activate just by coming into contact with metal. You have to
remove the atmosphere before it will solidify. Sounds like you aren't
letting the bottle fill with air before you put the lid back on.....
Don Winters
RV-6A Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: meketa [mailto:acgm(at)gvtc.com]
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 Control Problems/Loctite (tm)
I was told by a Loctite salesman that the drying process is started in
the presence of metal. He stated that the tip of the bottle rubbed on
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott.Fink(at)Microchip.com.Mon, 12 Jun 2000 09:52:32.-0700(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ruined rear spar |
06/12/2000 10:00:39 AM
Jeff,
I got pretty good at drilling out the rivits by the time I took out my W407
to replace it. (I did the same thing).
Scott
Gary Zilik
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: cc:
owner-rv-list-server@mat Subject: Re: RV-List: Ruined
rear spar
ronics.com
06/10/2000 05:09 PM
Please respond to
rv-list
Jeff Point wrote:
> The offending hole is on the 3rd wing walk rib,
> and is right on the edge of the W407 flange strip. It looks pretty
> un-fixable, but I will call Vans monday and make sure (and order some
> new parts, no doubt.) In the meantime, anybody out there who has made
> this mistake, how did you fix it? Drilling out all the rivets on the
> 407 and making a new one looks tedious,
Jeff, I assume you nicked the flange strip while drilling the rib to rear
spar rivet holes. If this is the case I would remove the 407 and dress the
nick just like you would on a metal prop. But since you had to remove the
407 to do this I would just replace it with a new one. It is not hard to
do,
just hard to get started. Either way it has to be fixed
Gary Zilik
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
First, to all of you who have taken the time to congratulate me on my first
flight, thank you for taking the time to write.
Second, Bob Japundza has taken the time to post a few pictures on the web of
my completed airplane. They are at http://members.iquest.net/~rpflanze/ if
you're interested. Thanks.
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 (3.7 hours)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: West System Epoxy |
> Are builders using the 205 fast set (ten min pot life) or the 206 slow set
> (30 min pot life)?
I use the 205A.......the pumps are real handy too #301A
> What type and size of cloth is the best to stock up on?
Here is the list I started with
3 yards 2 oz
3 yds 4 oz
3 yds 8 oz
3 yds peel ply
1 lb 3/4 oz mat
I have not used much of the heavy stuff yet. The 2 oz is so fine, I find it
hard to work with but it is VERY flexible.
> For fillers, are builders using glass bubbles, flocked cotton fiber, or
> milled glass fibers?
1/8 lb cabosil
1/4 lb 3M glass bubble
1 lb milled glass fibers
This is more than you will ever need. The total cost for these three items
was $9. You could probubly half it.
I ordered all my stuff from
Fiberglass Supply Company
314 West Depot
Bingen, Washington 98605
509-493-3464
> Thank-you,
> Norman Hunger
Your welcome
Ross Mickey
6-A
Eugene, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
| Subject: | Re: Glareshield Edge Material |
| From: | James Freeman <flyeyes(at)bellsouth.net> |
> << I used a length of black rubber hose, slit and slipped over the
> glareshield
> edge. It also secures the edge of the grey carpet I used on the glareshield.
>>>
>
> I felt like something with a little more impact resistance than rubber or
> vinyl was necessary in case of accident and that sharp glareshield edge came
> back to meet my forehead. Tony Bingalas(spelling?) showed how to split a
> peice of al. tube and use it on the edge of the glareshield. It makes me fill
> more comfortable with that edge!
>
> Bernie Kerr, 6A N60WM 17 hours of grin time, SE Fla
>
\
Bernie, I think you are exactly right and this is often overlooked. Our
best natural "laboratory" for this is auto accidents. The human body is
surprisingly flexible when subjected to the types of forces possible in auto
(and/or RV) accidents. I have personally seen facial injuries in belted
passengers who hit parts of the car interior I wouldn't have believed
possible.
RVs have a comparatively excellent record in forced landings/runway
excursions due to their low landing speeds, decent restraint systems and
structural integrity, but the glareshield should be designed with the
expectation that somebody's going to do a face plant into it someday.
As amateur builders/mechanics/designers we tend to do a poor job of engine
and fuel system installation. There are probably 15 Cessna 172s flying with
o-320 engines for every RV, but when was the last time you heard of a Cessna
that just quit "for undetermined reasons" other than just running out of
gas?
James Freeman
now off Soapbox
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RotorMac(at)aol.com |
From: RotorMac(at)aol.com
Full-name: Rotor Mac
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 18:39:42 EDT
Subject: Prop
Does anyone know if a Sensenich Model MK76Ak-11, 65" diameter, 62" pitch prop
will work on a RV?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rv660wm(at)aol.com.Mon, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003395271@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Mon,
12 Jun 2000 11:54:37.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Glareshield Edge Material(credit to Mark Nielsen) |
In a message dated 6/12/00 12:49:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Mark.Nielsen@fiedler-lp.com writes:
<<
> Folks hereabouts (Central Texas - Tony's back yard) are
> using foam pipe
> insulation covered with naugahide, split and glue to the
> glare shield.
> In fact Tony's -6A has this glareshield edge treatment.
> Seems like it would work well.
>
My personal preference for the edge of the glare shield is a 3/8"
diameter aluminum tube. In November 1998, I posted instructions on
how to install the tube. Check the archives. If you want to see what
mine looks like, there is a picture of it in the RVator, First Issue,
1999, page 11.
>>
It was Mark's idea that I used and not Tony's
Bernie Kerr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Judd <sjudd(at)ffd2.com> |
Hola,
>
> I'm only going to add one thought here....from an engineer who used to do
> life testing. One static test, using carefully applied sandbags is hardly a
> realistic test of the environment these wings spend their life in. I've
> never experienced turbulance that is carefully, slowly applied. Most
Purely out of curiosity... how does 9 g's "slowly and carefully applied"
differ from 9 g's "suddenly applied"?
-S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RotorMac(at)aol.com |
Does anyone know if a Sensenich Model MK 76AK-11 prop with 65"
diameter, 62" pitch will work on a RV?
Thanks,
Mac
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
First, to all of you who have taken the time to congratulate me on my first
flight, thank you for taking the time to write.
Second, Bob Japundza has taken the time to post a few pictures on the web of
my completed airplane. They are at http://members.iquest.net/~rpflanze/ if
you're interested. Thanks.
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 (3.7 hours)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Winters <dwinters(at)acraline.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 Control Problems/Loctite (tm) |
Actually, Loctite is an anaerobic thread locking compound. It is activated
in the *absence* of air. The loctite that gets trapped in the threads is
the only portion that will contribute to the thread locking properties. The
stuff will not activate just by coming into contact with metal. You have to
remove the atmosphere before it will solidify. Sounds like you aren't
letting the bottle fill with air before you put the lid back on.....
Don Winters
RV-6A Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: meketa [mailto:acgm(at)gvtc.com]
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 Control Problems/Loctite (tm)
I was told by a Loctite salesman that the drying process is started in
the presence of metal. He stated that the tip of the bottle rubbed on
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RotorMac(at)aol.com.Mon, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003396568@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Mon,
12 Jun 2000 12:39:24.-0700(at)matronics.com
From: RotorMac(at)aol.com
Full-name: Rotor Mac
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 18:39:42 EDT
Subject: Prop
Does anyone know if a Sensenich Model MK76Ak-11, 65" diameter, 62" pitch prop
will work on a RV?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scot Stambaugh <sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Web site for Jeff Rose Ignition Systems |
I checked the achieves and the Yeller pages and could not find any contact
info (preferably a web site address) for Jeff Rose Ignition Systems. A
little help please.
thanks,
Scot Stambaugh
sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
First, to all of you who have taken the time to congratulate me on my first
flight, thank you for taking the time to write.
Second, Bob Japundza has taken the time to post a few pictures on the web of
my completed airplane. They are at http://members.iquest.net/~rpflanze/ if
you're interested. Thanks.
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 (3.7 hours)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
snip
For fillers, are builders using glass bubbles, flocked cotton fiber, or
milled glass fibers?
snip
Norman,
Filler 101
Each has it's own purpose.
Glass bubble (Microballons) are a lightweight filler. It has no structural applications.
If used in structural application, the small voids will create stress
risers for cracks to start. It's easy to sand.
Cotton fibers (Flox) is a light weight filler for structrual applications (like
when your bonding in a bulkhead in your elevator fairings). The fibers intertwine
to form the strength.
Milled glass fibers are the strongest of the structural fillers. It's a little
heavier than the flox, but a little stronger.
For most applications homebuilders are involved in, Flox and milled fibers can
be interchanged.
Another filler that is commonly used is Cabosil. This is a non fiber filler that
doesn't have voids in it like microballons. This is commonly used in fiberglass
layups where the glass won't wrap down into a small void. It sands a little
tougher that microballons.
There you go.
Laird RV-6 (15.6 fun filled [except the oil thing] hours)
SoCal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Web site for Jeff Rose Ignition Systems |
--- Scot Stambaugh wrote:
>
>
> I checked the achieves and the Yeller pages and could not find any
> contact
> info (preferably a web site address) for Jeff Rose Ignition Systems.
> A
> little help please.
http://www.exp-aircraft.com/vendors/electroa.html
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bendix Fuel Injection Problems |
Dave,
I'm not at the hanger so I will have to confirm this but I think you have
the arm installed upside down, thereby when you pull the misture to cutoff
it is actually going to full rich. At least that is the symptoms that you
are showing. If the electric pump is running and the mixture is full rich
fuel will make its way back down the inlet to the airbox. This is not good
in a fuel injected engine as it takes a good bit of fuel to get from the
injectors bak down to the air inlet. I have seen a couple of backfires
caused this way when someone flooded their engine.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
Wings on, controls on, now for all the little things
>From: PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Bendix Fuel Injection Problems
>Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 23:01:22 EDT
>
>
> I'm gettting ready for my first engine run so I did a leak check on my
>fuel system. When I turn the electric fuel pump on with the mixture in
>idle
>cutoff (At least what I think is idle cutoff) fuel spews from the drainage
>holes in my airbox. It doesn't seem to do this in full rich. The way I
>assumed (dooh!) that the mixture worked was full clockwise (at the
>injector)
>is idle cutoff. I put the arm on top so it wouldn't hit the airbox so the
>arm comes forward for idle cutoff. I also put the fuel inlet on the left
>side
>so it wouldn't interfer with the mixture arm. Can someone confirm for me
>on
>their engine that clockwise is idle cutoff. Also, should the fuel
>injector
>ever leak out the bottom with the fuel pump on, even in full rich. This is
>a
>Bart Lolande engine and hasn't been run yet. I haven't had a chance to
>pull
>the airbox yet to determine the exact leak location. Thanks in advance.
>
>Dave Beizer
>RV-6A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Web site for Jeff Rose Ignition Systems |
Scot,
There is some information on Jeff Rose's systems on our website
(www.fly-gbi.com/eis.htm). His phone number is also there. Hope this helps.
Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
>
>Does anyone know if a Sensenich Model MK 76AK-11 prop with 65"
>diameter, 62" pitch will work on a RV?
>
>Thanks,
>Mac
>
Mac,
You should talk with Sensenich to be sure, but here is what I can
glean from the FAA Type Certificate Data Sheets (TCDS), available at:
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rghtml.nsf/h
tmlmedia/current_tcds_by_product_type.html
I can't find an exact model number match - the closest I can find is
the 76AK-2. Could "11" be a roman numeral "II", or a "2"?
The TCDS for the 76AK-2 (if that is what you have) indicates that the
minimum diameter is 72", with the pitch ranging from 38" to 53".
This prop is approved on the A65, A85 and A90 (65 thru 90 hp
Continentals).
I would stay away from this prop unless Sensenich gives it the OK.
Based on the TCDS, it sounds suspiciously like a cut down and
repitched prop. This changes the natural frequency of the prop from
a vibration point of view, and you could easily have destructive, but
imperceptible vibrations. Many cut down props have shed blades, and
the resulting imbalance often causes the motor mount to fail, and the
CG goes so far aft after the engine leaves that the pilot usually
loses control of the aircraft. There were a lot of accidents like
this years ago, until the people that thought it couldn't happen to
them all were taken out of the gene pool.
The TCDS for the 76AK-2 is available at:
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/regulatory_and_guidance_library/rgMakeModel.
nsf/edc23c1f1925ea3d852567620053a3c5/7d33aa15611ee2e285256713004bddd3/
$FILE/1p2.pdf
Note: both these URLs will probably be chopped into pieces by the
wonders of e-mail. You have to cut and paste them back into one line
or they won't work.
Sensenich is available at:
717-569-0435 http://www.sensenich.com
They have a page on their web site with the TCDSs:
http://www.sensenich.com/tcds/tcmain.htm
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
>
>Does anyone know if a Sensenich Model MK 76AK-11 prop with 65"
>diameter, 62" pitch will work on a RV?
>
>Thanks,
>Mac
>
Mac,
You should talk with Sensenich to be sure, but here is what I can
glean from the FAA Type Certificate Data Sheets (TCDS), available at:
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rghtml.nsf/h
tmlmedia/current_tcds_by_product_type.html
I can't find an exact model number match - the closest I can find is
the 76AK-2. Could "11" be a roman numeral "II", or a "2"?
The TCDS for the 76AK-2 (if that is what you have) indicates that the
minimum diameter is 72", with the pitch ranging from 38" to 53".
This prop is approved on the A65, A85 and A90 (65 thru 90 hp
Continentals).
I would stay away from this prop unless Sensenich gives it the OK.
Based on the TCDS, it sounds suspiciously like a cut down and
repitched prop. This changes the natural frequency of the prop from
a vibration point of view, and you could easily have destructive, but
imperceptible vibrations. Many cut down props have shed blades, and
the resulting imbalance often causes the motor mount to fail, and the
CG goes so far aft after the engine leaves that the pilot usually
loses control of the aircraft. There were a lot of accidents like
this years ago, until the people that thought it couldn't happen to
them all were taken out of the gene pool.
The TCDS for the 76AK-2 is available at:
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/regulatory_and_guidance_library/rgMakeModel.
nsf/edc23c1f1925ea3d852567620053a3c5/7d33aa15611ee2e285256713004bddd3/
$FILE/1p2.pdf
Note: both these URLs will probably be chopped into pieces by the
wonders of e-mail. You have to cut and paste them back into one line
or they won't work.
Sensenich is available at:
717-569-0435 http://www.sensenich.com
They have a page on their web site with the TCDSs:
http://www.sensenich.com/tcds/tcmain.htm
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
>
>Does anyone know if a Sensenich Model MK 76AK-11 prop with 65"
>diameter, 62" pitch will work on a RV?
>
>Thanks,
>Mac
>
Mac,
You should talk with Sensenich to be sure, but here is what I can
glean from the FAA Type Certificate Data Sheets (TCDS), available at:
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rghtml.nsf/h
tmlmedia/current_tcds_by_product_type.html
I can't find an exact model number match - the closest I can find is
the 76AK-2. Could "11" be a roman numeral "II", or a "2"?
The TCDS for the 76AK-2 (if that is what you have) indicates that the
minimum diameter is 72", with the pitch ranging from 38" to 53".
This prop is approved on the A65, A85 and A90 (65 thru 90 hp
Continentals).
I would stay away from this prop unless Sensenich gives it the OK.
Based on the TCDS, it sounds suspiciously like a cut down and
repitched prop. This changes the natural frequency of the prop from
a vibration point of view, and you could easily have destructive, but
imperceptible vibrations. Many cut down props have shed blades, and
the resulting imbalance often causes the motor mount to fail, and the
CG goes so far aft after the engine leaves that the pilot usually
loses control of the aircraft. There were a lot of accidents like
this years ago, until the people that thought it couldn't happen to
them all were taken out of the gene pool.
The TCDS for the 76AK-2 is available at:
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/regulatory_and_guidance_library/rgMakeModel.
nsf/edc23c1f1925ea3d852567620053a3c5/7d33aa15611ee2e285256713004bddd3/
$FILE/1p2.pdf
Note: both these URLs will probably be chopped into pieces by the
wonders of e-mail. You have to cut and paste them back into one line
or they won't work.
Sensenich is available at:
717-569-0435 http://www.sensenich.com
They have a page on their web site with the TCDSs:
http://www.sensenich.com/tcds/tcmain.htm
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sandra Adams <sadams(at)pingobingo.com> |
Mac: If this prop has been clipped and is not approved by Sensenich, it
will probably break, very possibly causing loss of life and property-
see the archives. Bob, RV-6A.
RotorMac(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if a Sensenich Model MK 76AK-11 prop with 65"
> diameter, 62" pitch will work on a RV?
>
> Thanks,
> Mac
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sandra Adams <sadams(at)pingobingo.com> |
Mac: If this prop has been clipped and is not approved by Sensenich, it
will probably break, very possibly causing loss of life and property-
see the archives. Bob, RV-6A.
RotorMac(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if a Sensenich Model MK 76AK-11 prop with 65"
> diameter, 62" pitch will work on a RV?
>
> Thanks,
> Mac
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger <rembree(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: A humble request |
Steve Judd wrote:
>
> Hola,
>
> In recent days there have been numerous invocations of phrases such
> as "basic physics" and "simple engineering" which back up some idea,
> and being a basic and simple guy I'm all for it.
>
> Would it be asking too much, however, for said people to include some
> actual physics and/or engineering in their posts? A simple calculation
> will do, or a reference anyone can look up in the library.
>
> Thank you for your time,
>
> -Steve
I agree completely.
Tom Gummo correctly stated the formula for lift with most of the variables.
This is not an opinion. This is accepted as factual by not only the
aviation community, but scientists and engineers throughout the world who
deal with fluid mechanics.
http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/liftco.html
(seems strange quoting references from the internet)
It would take more than showing a few simple calculations to provide what
most would consider proof positive that all these things affect lift. Not
everyone understands the numbers.
Nasa has been kind enough to create and provide for free a simulation
program which shows the affects of changing the angle of attack, thickness,
camber, airspeed, altitude and wing area. Everyone on this list should
download a copy of this program and familiarize themselves with it.
http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/FoilSim/index.html
When opinions are stated, without solid technical references, they
sometimes misinform and mislead. How many people on the list are now
thinking that maybe airspeed does not affect lift? Nonsense. When someone
states that, it sounds like voodoo to me.
I have stood in front of the wind tunnels and watched the gauges as the
variables were changed. Yup, the formula works. Every time. This simulation
program is almost exactly what I observed when I was an engineering student
so things have not changed since 1973.
Notice when viewing the lift versus speed curve that it is parabolic,
indicating that yes lift increases with the square of the speed. Only a
symmetrical airfoil at zero angle of attack does not increase lift with
speed. No voodoo in that.
Roger Embree
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Double Post Problem Continues... |
Listers,
I'm aware that the double (sometime triple) post problem exists. I'm
trying to figure out what is causing it, but so far haven't had any
luck. It doesn't happen with all the messages - just some, and isn't
happening on the other Lists - just the rv-list.
Anyway, I'm working on it.... Sorry for the problem.
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | When to start on avionics/panel |
Just curious, when do most builders start installing their instruments and
avionics? At what point would it be a good idea to start? Thanks!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE (RV-4 Fuse, sticks and pedals)
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | New Vans Service Letter - Fuel tube anti-rotation brackets |
I just saw a new Service Letter on Van's web site, released today.
The list of Service Letters is available at:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/notices.htm
The text of the Service Letter follows (the full service letter has
figures too):
FUEL PICK-UP TUBE ANTI-ROTATION BRACKET
BACKGROUND INFORMATION
During the investigation of a recent RV-8 off field forced landing
incident, the inadvertent rotation of the fuel line bulkhead fitting
and pick-up tube while tightening the fuel line fluid fitting is
suspected to be a cause. The fuel line bulkhead fitting on the
incident aircraft did not have an anti-rotation bracket restraining
it. Of the 2300 plus RV's flying today, this is the only incident of
inadvertent fuel pick-up rotation of which we are aware. Plans pages
sent out after September of 1999 have anti-rotation brackets
called-out.
APPLICABILITY
Installation of anti-rotation brackets is applicable to all RV
aircraft with wing tanks which have fixed fuel pick-up tubes. This is
not applicable to wing tanks with " flop tube" fuel pick-ups. For
aircraft completed and already flying: No action required until and
unless the fuel line fittings at the fuel tank are tightened,
loosened, or removed. If/when the fuel line fittings at the fuel tank
are tightened, loosened, or removed, the fuel pick-up should be
modified as indicated below. For non-flying aircraft: Modify the fuel
pick-up as indicated below.
MODIFICATION DETAILS
Step 1: Fabricate fuel pick-up anti-rotation bracket(s) per Figure 1.
Step 2: Remove the fuel tank access plate/fuel pick-up assembly.
Step 3: Remove the fuel pick-up tube from the fuel line bulkhead
fitting, and install the anti-rotation bracket on the access plate
using the bulkhead fitting to locate the bracket on the access plate.
See Figures 2 and 3 for correct orientation of the anti-rotation
bracket relative to the fuel line bulkhead fitting. Use the #30 holes
in the anti-rotation bracket to match drill rivet holes into the
access plate.
Step 4: De-burr holes and rivet the anti-rotation bracket to the
access plate using two AN470AD4-6 rivets. Use Pro-Seal when
installing the bracket to the plate. Re-install the fuel pick-up tube
on the fuel line bulkhead fitting.
Step 5: Re-install the fuel tank access plate/fuel pick-up assembly
using Pro-Seal as required to ensure fuel tank integrity.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | A humble request |
Roger,
Thanks for posting the website containing that airfoil application. It was
an interesting exercise moving the airspeed probe around and seeing the
resultant errors in airspeed. It was interesting trying to find the best
place for the pitot tube. It ended up right about where Van's put it.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger [mailto:rembree(at)sympatico.ca]
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 4:21 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: A humble request
Steve Judd wrote:
>
> Hola,
>
> In recent days there have been numerous invocations of
phrases such
> as "basic physics" and "simple engineering" which back up
some idea,
> and being a basic and simple guy I'm all for it.
>
> Would it be asking too much, however, for said people to
include some
> actual physics and/or engineering in their posts? A
simple calculation
> will do, or a reference anyone can look up in the library.
>
> Thank you for your time,
>
> -Steve
I agree completely.
Tom Gummo correctly stated the formula for lift with most of
the variables.
This is not an opinion. This is accepted as factual by not
only the
aviation community, but scientists and engineers throughout
the world who
deal with fluid mechanics.
http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/liftco.html
(seems strange quoting references from the internet)
It would take more than showing a few simple calculations to
provide what
most would consider proof positive that all these things
affect lift. Not
everyone understands the numbers.
Nasa has been kind enough to create and provide for free a
simulation
program which shows the affects of changing the angle of
attack, thickness,
camber, airspeed, altitude and wing area. Everyone on this
list should
download a copy of this program and familiarize themselves
with it.
http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/FoilSim/index.html
When opinions are stated, without solid technical
references, they
sometimes misinform and mislead. How many people on the list
are now
thinking that maybe airspeed does not affect lift? Nonsense.
When someone
states that, it sounds like voodoo to me.
I have stood in front of the wind tunnels and watched the
gauges as the
variables were changed. Yup, the formula works. Every time.
This simulation
program is almost exactly what I observed when I was an
engineering student
so things have not changed since 1973.
Notice when viewing the lift versus speed curve that it is
parabolic,
indicating that yes lift increases with the square of the
speed. Only a
symmetrical airfoil at zero angle of attack does not
increase lift with
speed. No voodoo in that.
Roger Embree
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel tank sender |
> Mike Comeaux wrote
> Is it required to put any sealant on cork gasket that sending unit is
I asked the factory the same question when I was doing mine two years ago.
They told me to Pro-Seal the cork gasket in. I also did the heads of the
screws...........Norman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
Steve Judd wrote:
>
>
> Hola,
>
> >
> > I'm only going to add one thought here....from an engineer who used to do
> > life testing. One static test, using carefully applied sandbags is hardly
a
> > realistic test of the environment these wings spend their life in. I've
> > never experienced turbulance that is carefully, slowly applied. Most
>
> Purely out of curiosity... how does 9 g's "slowly and carefully applied"
> differ from 9 g's "suddenly applied"?
>
> -S
>
When a wing is static loaded, the loads are carefully applied
symmetrically & the load is proportioned along the length & chord as if
the wing is gradually loaded up in still air.
When you are flying & yank on the stick, odds are you don't have it
perfectly centered & the wing is loaded asymmetrically. Gusts can &
often do hit 1 wing harder than the other. Etc. etc.
Asymmetric loading reduces the load limits of the structure.
Bill was probably thinking of more than this, but it's the first thing I
thought of.
I hope Bill doesn't mind someone else answering. Hopefully he will
correct me if I'm incorrect.
Charlie
flying -4
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FOR SALE: RV-6 Tail Kit & Lots of Tools |
I hope posting "for sale" stuff here doesn't insult anyone....if shipping
is
needed I am sure we can work something out. Thanks.
--
Keith Barr AeroSys Engineering, Inc.
mailto:barr@aerosys-eng.com Lafayette, Colorado, USA
http://www.aerosys-eng.com/barr ATP/A&IGI
RV-6 Tail kit and Tools
======================
If you buy this set you will have everything you need (other than an air
compressor) to begin work on your own RV-6! No work has been done on the
kit,
other than to open the crate and confirm that all the parts are there. All
of
the tools are new and unused. To purchase all of these items on your own
would
cost $2500 + shipping.
ONLY $1875!
Pickup in Lafayette, Colorado.
Contact either: Keith (720) 988-4704 (barr@aerosys-eng.com)
Glenn (303) 883-2419 (mass(at)eagleglenn.com)
RV-6 Tail Kit - older kit without prepunched skins
--------------------------------------------------
Includes all parts, hardware, and plans originally delivered with the
kit.($1267)
Two extra construction manuals. ($110)
Empenage construction video (2 tape set). ($35)
Note: some skins have minor scratches on them. As long as the builder
plans to
paint the aircraft, they shouldn't be a problem, or they can be replaced
for just
a few dollars from Vans.
US Industrial Tool & Supply Company Kit ($725)
----------------------------------------------
TP83 3X Air Gun
TP89I 5-piece straight rivet set
TP09I 5-piece 10 degree offset rivet set
TP91 flush rivet set with rubber guard
TP88 beehive and quick change retainer springs
TP97 air tool regulator
TP61 micro stop countersink
TP4263 dimple and die set
TP4264 dimple and die set
TP116A squeezer dimple and die set mix
TP45 3/8" air drill
TP62 3-piece countersink cutter pilots
TP75 Cleco fasteners (325 3/32" and 175 1/8")
TP74 Cleco pliers
TP44 hand seamer
TP638 bucking bar
TP647 bucking bar
TP670 bucking bar
TP1112 bucking bar
TP216 tool box with tote tray
TP144 3" throat hand squeezer (substituted for TP116, TP162, TP96 &
TP266)
Avery Tools
-----------
1001 Hand Rivet and Dimpling Tool $130.00
500 Vise-Grip fluting pliers $28.50
1065 Back Riveting Plate $34.00
1048 Back Riveting Set $17.50
3753 Scotch Brite 7A Wheel $43.00
7448 Scotch Brite Pads Gray (2) $2.70
7447 Scotch Brite Pads Maroon (2) $2.70
52303 Andy Combination 12" Snips $28.00
1102 #30 drill stop $2.25
1101 #40 drill stop $2.25
860 Newstripe Spray Gun Kit $28.50
12x40 12" #40 Cobalt Drill $5.00
12x30 12" #30 Cobalt Drill $5.10
40 #40 Cobalt Drill (8) $10.00
30 #30 Cobalt Drill (5) $7.33
1/8 1/8" Cobalt Drill (3) $4.60
26-3-4 1/4" countersunk rivets $5.20
26-4-4 1/4" countersunk rivets $4.40
70-3-4 1/4" universal rivets $5.40
70-4-4 1/4" universal rivets $4.00
name="barr.vcf"
filename="barr.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Barr;Keith
tel;cell:720-988-4704
tel;fax:603-687-0127
tel;home:303-673-0624
tel;work:303-379-3322
url:http://www.aerosys-eng.com/barr
org:AeroSys Engineering, Inc.
adr:;;102 Bass Circle;Lafayette;CO;80026;USA
version:2.1
email;internet:barr@aerosys-eng.com
title:President
fn:Keith Barr
end:vcard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Fuel tube anti-rotation brackets |
> During the investigation of a recent RV-8 off field forced landing
> incident, the inadvertent rotation of the fuel line bulkhead fitting
> and pick-up tube while tightening the fuel line fluid fitting is
> suspected to be a cause. The fuel line bulkhead fitting on the
> incident aircraft did not have an anti-rotation bracket restraining
> it. Of the 2300 plus RV's flying today, this is the only incident of
> inadvertent fuel pick-up rotation of which we are aware.
Isn't this the kind of thing that could be found out during flight test? It
would seem to me that there is pleny of time to test exactly how much fuel
the engine can get out of each tank. Two different flights. Twenty-five
hours to get it covered............Norman ..............Do not
archive......................
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | A humble request |
>
>Roger,
>Thanks for posting the website containing that airfoil application. It was
>an interesting exercise moving the airspeed probe around and seeing the
>resultant errors in airspeed. It was interesting trying to find the best
>place for the pitot tube. It ended up right about where Van's put it.
>
>--
>Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger [mailto:rembree(at)sympatico.ca]
> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 4:21 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: A humble request
>
>
> Nasa has been kind enough to create and provide for free a
>simulation
> program which shows the affects of changing the angle of
>attack, thickness,
> camber, airspeed, altitude and wing area. Everyone on this
>list should
> download a copy of this program and familiarize themselves
>with it.
>
> http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/FoilSim/index.html
>
Scott,
I agree, that is a very neat application.
One comment on the airspeed probe location. It looks like the probe
in the simulation shows the true airspeed at the selected location.
While that is interesting from the point of view of understanding
what is going on around the wing, it has little bearing on what our
pitot tubes are doing, or on the "correctness" of Van's selected
location.
In simple terms, pitot tubes measure total pressure, which is the sum
of the static (or ambient) pressure, and the dynamic pressure.
Dynamic pressure can be thought of as the pressure increase due to
speed. It is proportional to the square of the speed. But the
static pressure and the dynamic pressure are related by Bernoulli's
Law. The speed of the air increases as it goes around the wing, but
the static pressure decreases. The total pressure (static pressure +
dynamic pressure ) remains unchanged. So, the pitot tube will work
great even though the speed of the air at its location differs from
the aircraft's speed. The above discussion is simplified. The full
story takes a whole chapter in many text books.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
RotorMac(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> From: RotorMac(at)aol.com
> Full-name: Rotor Mac
> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 18:39:42 EDT
> Subject: Prop
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Does anyone know if a Sensenich Model MK76Ak-11, 65" diameter, 62" pitch prop
> will work on a RV?
No....unless you are planning to use a Briggs and Stratton engine.
Not enough diameter or pitch...
Sam Buchanan (RV-6 back in the air with new engine :-) )
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Imfairings(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: West System Epoxy |
Norman,
I use the fast hardner with the West System most of the time because the cure
time is shorter than slow hardner. The trick is to get the stuff spread out
as fast as possible, then work out the bubbles and wrinkles. If you're in a
hurry, heat it gently for a quick cure. BE CAREFULL WITH EPOXY, WEAR GLOVES
AND HAVE GOOD VENTILATION, YOU CAN DEVELOPE ALERGIES TO IT!
Use millfiber for strengh in syntactic mixes. Use Air-o-cil or Cab-o-cil to
thicken the mix. Micro balloons are used as an expander [ more stuff for less
money] or if a large fill is being done and heat could be a problem. There is
a loss of strength when you use the balloons.
I have no idea why you would use cotton fiber, seems like it would contribute
very little to the part.
,Glass fabric comes in all sorts of weights, generally a 6 or 8 oz. material
is easy to use and find locally.
Hope to have been some help.
Bob
Fairings Etc.
IMFAIRINGS(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | meketa <acgm(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Control Problems/Loctite (tm) |
Hello Yall
I use Loctite all the time and I have never had it dry in the tube or
bottle, even with all the air squeezed air out. I have had it dry in the
tip with no cap being on the bottle and if I spill it on my tools in the
tray it will be dry on the tools by morning. I do use true anaerobic
sealer when assembling standard transmissions and rear main caps. I have
never had it dry in the tube, in the tip, or in open air. It does dry
very fast when squeezed into a confined area. I was just quoting the
salesman, who seemed quite knowledgable. My personal observations seem
to back up what he stated. I will do some tests when I think about it
and get the time.
George Meketa
RV8-QB canopy/ready to mount engine
> Actually, Loctite is an anaerobic thread locking compound. It is activated
> in the *absence* of air. The loctite that gets trapped in the threads is
> the only portion that will contribute to the thread locking properties. The
> stuff will not activate just by coming into contact with metal. You have to
> remove the atmosphere before it will solidify. Sounds like you aren't
> letting the bottle fill with air before you put the lid back on.....
>
> Don Winters
> RV-6A Wings
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meketa [mailto:acgm(at)gvtc.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 11:19 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 Control Problems/Loctite (tm)
> I was told by a Loctite salesman that the drying process is started in
> the presence of metal. He stated that the tip of the bottle rubbed on
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Web site for Jeff Rose Ignition Systems |
In a message dated 6/12/00 1:41:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com writes:
<< I checked the achieves and the Yeller pages and could not find any contact
info (preferably a web site address) for Jeff Rose Ignition Systems. A
little help please. >>
Jeff's company name is Electroair and they are listed in the Yeller Pages.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> |
| Subject: | Trim access cover problems |
I searched the archive but still haven't seen a good reply to this.
I am building an RV-6 with the newer pre-punched skins. The access cover
came with # 6 countersunk screws. The plate nuts are also countersunk. I had
no trouble riveting on the plate nuts, but... Should I dimple the access
cover and/or the reinforce plate for the screw itself? It seems to me this
may not work.
If I countersink the access cover, I don't think it will be 'deep' enough in
the .032 skin to sink the # 6 screws in. I'm not even sure if I have seen
dimple dies large enough for these screws.
Someone else must have had the same dilemma.
Regards,
Are
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | New Fuse Block Page |
Hello Listers:
We have a new page with a few new fuse blocks!
http://members.aol.com/aamrelectr/Page97.html
or click this link AAM
R/AirCore/ Fuse Blocks
Regards,
John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar
ineCore
(Chick the blue link to go there)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: When to start on avionics/panel |
> Just curious, when do most builders start installing their instruments and
> avionics? At what point would it be a good idea to start? Thanks!
> Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE (RV-4 Fuse, sticks and pedals)
Scott,
The answer for me was when I got sick of doing other things. I find that I
like to keep what I'm working on a bit varied... I'll work on a subassembly,
finish it, then move onto something else. My panel is finished now but not
yet wired into the plane. I did it way in advance just because I wanted to,
and needed a change of pace from airframe work at the time. I plan to paint
the plane in sections with other tasks in between also. Probably most of
all you'll want to break up your fiberglass work... lots of work, especially
SANDING ;-)
FWIW,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, baffle/plenum done, prop mounted, on to cowling
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: West System Epoxy - Cotton Fiber |
Cotton Fiber is mixed with the epoxy to make structural fillets or fill
gaps where strength is needed. It works very much like chopped glass
fibers without the problems fibers cause in handling. (getting into
skin, etc.) Much safer.
I cannot imagine anyplace you would use it on an aluminum airplane.
When hard it is extremely difficult to sand. Right up their with high
density filler.
If you were using it in a glass airplane, it would be for fillets when
installing structural bulkheads or ribs before taping.
John Oliveira
RV9a N909RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim access cover problems |
Are,
Dimple both. I did not build a pre-punch so I don't know exactly what
you're facing, but on the instructions for the old kits, it says to dimple.
If you have countersunk screws and dimpled platenuts, what makes you believe
that it may not work? You have to dimple the reinforcing ring prior to
installing the platenuts.
You do need to buy dimple dies for at least the #6 and #8 screws. You'll
use them everywhere.
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 (4.0 hours)
http://members.iquest.net/~rpflanze
> I am building an RV-6 with the newer pre-punched skins. The access cover
> came with # 6 countersunk screws. The plate nuts are also countersunk. I
had
> no trouble riveting on the plate nuts, but... Should I dimple the access
> cover and/or the reinforce plate for the screw itself? It seems to me this
> may not work.
> If I countersink the access cover, I don't think it will be 'deep' enough
in
> the .032 skin to sink the # 6 screws in. I'm not even sure if I have seen
> dimple dies large enough for these screws.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Rudder/Brake Issue |
I've made three flights in N417G now and I'm beginning to learn that this
bird is a way better airplane than I am a pilot. Takeoff rolls and landing
rolls are, to say the least, interesting.
My problem is that I'm finding it hard to apply rudder without also applying
brakes. This was especially evident last night when I needed even more
right rudder than normal to counteract a left crosswind.
I'm interested in how others have resolved this dilemma. The best I can
figure at this point is to shorten the links in the rudder cable to move the
bottom of the rudder pedal closer to the seat so that I have more "heel"
room. My poor old ankles just can't bend far enough backward to not apply
brakes when stepping on the pedal. I don't see any options for laying the
brake pedals back since I'm locked into the fixed linkage geometry of the
pedals and master cylinders.
Is this what others have done? Or do I need to find a Yoga instructor to
teach me how to flex my ankles so that my big toes can touch my shins?
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 (4.0 hours)
http://members.iquest.net/~rpflanze/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Web site for Jeff Rose Ignition Systems |
Bill,
It will work. You may have to forward mounted timing pickup rather than
use the mag replacement unit.
George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylorelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder/Brake Issue |
"Randy J. Pflanzer" wrote:
>
>
> My problem is that I'm finding it hard to apply rudder without also applying
> brakes. This was especially evident last night when I needed even more
> right rudder than normal to counteract a left crosswind.
>
> I'm interested in how others have resolved this dilemma.
Randy, I went to Pep Boys and bought some heater hose that will fit over the
bottom crossmembr of the rudder pedals. cut a peice to fit and slit it
lengthwise. Placed it on the pedal and used tyraps to hold it in place. It fits
pretty tight, you may not even need the tyraps. It gets your feet about 1/4"
back off the brakes. Dont know if this will work on the -6 but works fine on
the -4.
Carroll -4 88 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder/Brake Issue |
> My problem is that I'm finding it hard to apply rudder without also
> applying
> brakes. This was especially evident last night when I needed even
> more
> right rudder than normal to counteract a left crosswind.
Randy, I've had this same trouble flying Will Cretsinger's -6A. It's
embarrassing for him to have to tell me more than once to "try and stay
off the brakes". My ankles don't bend that way any more than yours!
I'm interested in how you installed the rudder pedals, stock or
modified position in terms of the mounts and angle? I'm getting that
close > < to mounting that stuff on the firewall - F.J. notes talk
about moving things around to avoid this problem but it's difficult at
this point to see the geometry and know how to adjust.
Somewhere out there are web pictures where someone put rubber mop
handle grips on the rudder bars which I think it was mentioned spaced
their feet away from the brakes enough to help.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com |
| Subject: | Re: [rv8list] New Vans Service Letter - addendum |
>I should have mentioned that the full service letter, available on
>Van's web site, has 3 figures. I only posted the text.
>Kevin
FYI...
It's also important to note that if you have a quick build RV-8(A) kit you will
need to add this bracket as well. Even though the wing tanks are suppose to be
completed, I just checked my kit last night and at least for the folks that
received their QB kit as late as 12/99 the factory did not install this bracket.
Kind of strange since it has obviously been in the plans long enough for George
O. to have put the mod in his videos.
Go figure.
- Jim
RV-8AQ ( finish )
N89JA (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder/Brake Issue |
There was an article in one of the Rvators a while back on that subject,
I believe it was Ken Scott at Van's that wrote the article. He was having
trouble staying on the runway because of the brakes.
I copied his solution of extending the rudder pedal bracket arm that
connects the pedal to the cylinder. This tilts the the pedal back a bit.
And helps to keep your feet off the brakes.
As I recall made the bracket arm extention about 3/4" longer. It is a
lot of extra work, but I have no problem in my -6 with the brakes on
takeoff or landing.
I was afraid my foot would drag on the rubber when I needed the brakes.
PVC might be a little slicker as an alternative.
Have a good one!
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VFR/IFR Instrument Simulator |
Came across a shareware HTML based, single page simulator that has a little
plane and two instruments that are selectable to be either a RMI, VOR, HSI, DG,
TEXT or ADF instrument. You can move the airplane around with your mouse or
select random movement. As the aircraft moves the instruments indicate the
movement and position relative to the visual on your screen. You can add wind,
plots, To-From plots, Lost & Hide options-and many others. I can post the ZIP
file on Matts page or if someone can host the Zip File for others to down
load-that would be of great help (The Zip file is rather small)... I know this
isn't really RV related, but this single page simulator has got to be one of
the best training aids I've seen. Its called Tims VOR Simulator and is a
shareware / public domain item. Best of all its free. I've been playing with
it for months and know it to be bug & virus free. You got to keep your skills
up while building your RV.....there... that makes it RV relative.......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)micron.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [rv8list] New Vans Service Letter - addendum |
Actually, I think George (or someone he knew) came up with this idea in the
first place. IIRC, it's been in the construction videos since I used them
in '94.
Ed Bundy - Eagle, ID
RV6A - First flight 11/20/96 (Now new & improved, with PAINT!)
ebundy(at)micron.net
> It's also important to note that if you have a quick build RV-8(A) kit you
will
> need to add this bracket as well. Even though the wing tanks are suppose
to be
> completed, I just checked my kit last night and at least for the folks
that
> received their QB kit as late as 12/99 the factory did not install this
bracket.
>
> Kind of strange since it has obviously been in the plans long enough for
George
> O. to have put the mod in his videos.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Ludwig" <ludwig(at)azstarnet.com> |
| Subject: | Need RV-8 panel outline |
I'm searching for someone who has made a scale vector drawing of an RV-8
panel. Just the panel blank - no instruments. This can be CorelDraw,
Ashlar-Vellum, AutoCad, etc.
Thanks in advance.
Bill in Tucson
RV-8 awaiting kit delivery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder/Brake Issue |
Hi Randy,
On my RV-6, I made an effort to tilt the rudder pedals as far fwd as I could when
I set them up on the bench before installing them. I did this because I heard
of the same issue that came up on the list and on an article that Ken did
in the RVator about switching from the floor mounted pedals to the overhead pedals.
There are a couple of things you could do to help.
1. Redrill the crossbar mounting blocks as far fwd as possible, but leave the cable
lengths the same. That will tilt the brake pedals forward a bit.
2. Put something around the lower crosstube (like was suggested by another lister)
like a split rubber hose. I used some knurled alum anti foot slip pieces
that I ripped off my old racing kart (I think there called "Bear Claws"). Anything
to increase the angle of your mid foot to your toe.
3. Shorten the rudder pedal cables as much as you can stand to increase the angle.
4. Make new brake pedals with an extended master cylinder mounting bracket to
increase the angle.
5. Make sure you don't have any floorboards so you feet are as far down off the
brake pedals as possible.
6. Do foot streching exercises :-)
I've found that I have to make an effort to stay off the brakes. If I were to
do it again, I'd make new brake pedals with an extended bracket. I still may
if it bugs me enough, but it doesn't right now.
Boy are you right about the airplane being better that I am. I had a 6 hour flight
cruising around my extended test area on Sunday. 12 landings 6 different
airports. I actually did my first wheel landings as well. The THIRD one wasn't
too bad. I was walking around work yesterday with a grin so big that everyone
thought I'd done something illegal.
Laird RV-6 (15.6 hrs)
SoCal
I've made three flights in N417G now and I'm beginning to learn that this
bird is a way better airplane than I am a pilot. Takeoff rolls and landing
rolls are, to say the least, interesting.
My problem is that I'm finding it hard to apply rudder without also applying
brakes. This was especially evident last night when I needed even more
right rudder than normal to counteract a left crosswind.
I'm interested in how others have resolved this dilemma. The best I can
figure at this point is to shorten the links in the rudder cable to move the
bottom of the rudder pedal closer to the seat so that I have more "heel"
room. My poor old ankles just can't bend far enough backward to not apply
brakes when stepping on the pedal. I don't see any options for laying the
brake pedals back since I'm locked into the fixed linkage geometry of the
pedals and master cylinders.
Is this what others have done? Or do I need to find a Yoga instructor to
teach me how to flex my ankles so that my big toes can touch my shins?
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 (4.0 hours)
http://members.iquest.net/~rpflanze/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: cobalt hvlp gun for sale |
Bob, I would like to purchase the hvlp gun.
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder/Brake Issue |
<< My problem is that I'm finding it hard to apply rudder without also
> applying
> brakes. >>
I have done the heater hose mod to the cross piece on the rudder pedals. It
helps, but I have developed the habit of applying my feet to the outer sides
of the pedal brackets (the "uprights") during takeoff, just to be sure that I
am not giving her any inadvertent braking action where it would do the most
harm. This just feels more natural that the "heels on the floor and toes on
the cross pieces" position, and is certainly more comfortable than trying to
keep the feet bent back (dorsiflexed) enough to avoid brake pressure, which I
find difficult even with the rubber hose in place. Works well for me, at
least.
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder/Brake Issue |
"Randy J. Pflanzer" wrote:
>
>
> I've made three flights in N417G now and I'm beginning to learn that this
> bird is a way better airplane than I am a pilot. Takeoff rolls and landing
> rolls are, to say the least, interesting.
>
> My problem is that I'm finding it hard to apply rudder without also applying
> brakes. This was especially evident last night when I needed even more
> right rudder than normal to counteract a left crosswind.
>
> I'm interested in how others have resolved this dilemma. The best I can
> figure at this point is to shorten the links in the rudder cable to move the
> bottom of the rudder pedal closer to the seat so that I have more "heel"
> room. My poor old ankles just can't bend far enough backward to not apply
> brakes when stepping on the pedal. I don't see any options for laying the
> brake pedals back since I'm locked into the fixed linkage geometry of the
> pedals and master cylinders.
>
> Is this what others have done? Or do I need to find a Yoga instructor to
> teach me how to flex my ankles so that my big toes can touch my shins?
I know exactly what you are talking about. The "solution" I have come up
with involves moving my feet farther up on the pedals just before I get
ready to land. The pedals end up being closer to the heels of my feet
instead of the toes. This means your heels are off the floor which feels
kinda flakey at first, but I have gotten accustomed to the position.
The ultimate solution is to redesign the pedals as some listers have
suggested, and I plan to do that....someday......
Sam Buchanan (RV-6)
"The RV Journal" http://home/hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder/Brake Issue |
Hi Randy,
First off, congrats on getting airborne and what a beautiful example it is.
I didn't know what angle you installed the brake pedals but mine are
slightly forward of the rudder tube CL. I don't have any problems with
accidental braking but I made it an early habit to rest the outside edges of
my fat feet on the vertical member of the rudder pedals. That way I know
I'm pushing rudder instead of brake. I consciously do this while taxing so
I don't ride the brakes. On landing I don't think about it and have had no
problems to date with accidental braking.
Rick Caldwell
-6 84 hrs since 01/16/00
Melbourne, FL
>From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Rudder/Brake Issue
>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 07:57:28 -0500
>
>
>I've made three flights in N417G now and I'm beginning to learn that this
>bird is a way better airplane than I am a pilot. Takeoff rolls and landing
>rolls are, to say the least, interesting.
>
>My problem is that I'm finding it hard to apply rudder without also
>applying
>brakes. This was especially evident last night when I needed even more
>right rudder than normal to counteract a left crosswind.
>
>I'm interested in how others have resolved this dilemma. The best I can
>figure at this point is to shorten the links in the rudder cable to move
>the
>bottom of the rudder pedal closer to the seat so that I have more "heel"
>room. My poor old ankles just can't bend far enough backward to not apply
>brakes when stepping on the pedal. I don't see any options for laying the
>brake pedals back since I'm locked into the fixed linkage geometry of the
>pedals and master cylinders.
>
>Is this what others have done? Or do I need to find a Yoga instructor to
>teach me how to flex my ankles so that my big toes can touch my shins?
>
>Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 (4.0 hours)
>http://members.iquest.net/~rpflanze/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Rudder/Brake Issue |
I raised my RV6A top-mounted rudder/brake assembly about 1.5-inches by
adding oak blocks under the attachment points, thus raising the entire
system. That keeps my toes on the rudder pedals rather than the brakes. To
brake I make a deliberate movement upward with my feet to depress the
brakes....no problems in 5-years.
As a side note, the amount of right rudder needed on take off is pretty
high...enough so that I have to really push to keep the machine going down
the runway in a straight line. (O-320 with fixed prop.)
This is not a problem, but if you were not prepared for it the pressure
needed seems a bit unusual compared to 'spam cans.'
RV6A Flying
Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder/Brake Issue |
I fitted the brake pedals with the tops leaning slightly back. This looked
the most natural. I also installed black automotive heater hose across the
bottoms for my shoes to rest on. Saves the paint and keeps my feet off the
brakes a little more.
There was a discussion here on this subject just before I did mine last
year. It was the general consensus that the brake pedals work best if they
are tilted back a bit. I just measured mine, they lean back 1/2 inch
measured at the top. The heater hose gives me another 1/8 inch. I've never
flown with them but it's fairly obvious when sitting in the cockpit that
this is going to work well. Could we get a comment from some one with a
flying aircraft?
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
> > My problem is that I'm finding it hard to apply rudder without also
applying
> > brakes. This was especially evident last night when I needed even more
> > right rudder than normal to counteract a left crosswind.
> >
> > I'm interested in how others have resolved this dilemma.
>
> Randy, I went to Pep Boys and bought some heater hose that will fit over
the
> bottom crossmembr of the rudder pedals. cut a peice to fit and slit it
> lengthwise. Placed it on the pedal and used tyraps to hold it in place. It
fits
> pretty tight, you may not even need the tyraps. It gets your feet about
1/4"
> back off the brakes. Dont know if this will work on the -6 but works fine
on
> the -4.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
Did you know that electrical tape comes in many different grades? They cover
temperature gradients, moisture, tack, flammability, stretch, color, width,
ect, ect...The stuff you get at Home Depot for $0.39 is junk. It just
doesn't stick well. Most people probably aren't aware that large Hydro
contractors are required to use certain codes. I talked to some powerline
maintenance workers to find out what they use. They showed me their black
tape at 3/4 inch and 1 1/2 inch. It is made by 3M and called Vinyl
Electrical Tape 054007-50212. It has a label that states; flame retardant,
cold and weather resistant, suitable for use not more than 600 V and not
more than 80 degrees Celsius or 176 degrees farenheight. Made in the USA.
This stuff has an unbelievable amount of stick. I find the 1 1/2 inch rolls
are extremely handy to have around. It will not be available at any place
but a professional electrical supply house as it costs too much to be
competitive at the large chain stores. It is worth getting. A ten pack lasts
the amateur half a lifetime. I like the flame retardant bit.
Stay away from colored tape. It is for phasing. Power workers are not
allowed to use it for anything else. They often have to install the black
stuff of the proper code below the colored stuff for electrical barrier.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder/Brake Issue |
>
> My problem is that I'm finding it hard to apply rudder
> without also applying
> brakes. This was especially evident last night when I
>
>
This has never been a problem for me. Starting with my first lesson
in Old Blue with Mike Seager, I rested my heels on the floor with my
toes pointed slightly outward. My toes rest on the bottom and outside
bars of the rudder pedals. This position feels comfortable and
natural to me. To apply brakes, I shift my toes up onto the brake
pedals. (With my small feet - size 7.5 - my heels come up off the
floor.) It took me a while to learn to make this shift without a
bobble in directional control.
Mark Nielsen
RV-6; 523 hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cartrige to Filter Conversion |
I currently have the oil cartrige system in my RV and would like the filter
instead of the cartrige. Does anyone how to convert or what is involved in
conversion. Do I simply use a aviation champion filter (with the nipple).. Is
it that simple or is there something more I am not grasping as yet ??? I
replaced the oil screen (and housing) with a cartrige housing/casting assembly
... are there any tricks on that replacement that aren't obvious either ???
.......thanks in advance...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
Listers,
At:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=960925025-464-345&browse=props&product=sen-prop
Van's recommends the following prop for the fully-faired RV-6 (or -8)
running an O-360 engine:
72FM8S9-1(85)
I am wondering if anyone has "overpropped" their -6 or -8 with an
86-inch pitch (specified for a -4) and what were the results in speed
and climb?
I would expect an increase in speed and decrease in climb - but to what
degree?
I've been through the archives and not found this addressed directly.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cartrige to Filter Conversion |
If I remember from the Skyhawk from about 18 years ago, the conversion was
simply to remove the can, gasket, and center bolt for the cartridge and
screw on the filter.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: <pcondon(at)csc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Cartrige to Filter Conversion
>
>
> I currently have the oil cartrige system in my RV and would like the
filter
> instead of the cartrige. Does anyone how to convert or what is involved in
> conversion. Do I simply use a aviation champion filter (with the
nipple).. Is
> it that simple or is there something more I am not grasping as yet ???
I
> replaced the oil screen (and housing) with a cartrige housing/casting
assembly
> ... are there any tricks on that replacement that aren't obvious either
???
> .......thanks in advance...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Japundza, Bob" <bjapundza(at)dowagro.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Cartrige to Filter Conversion |
Visit www.niagaraairparts.com. They are one of the manufacturers of the spin-on oil filter kits. If memory serves me correctly, it just bolts right on; they would be able to tell you all you want to know. B&C also makes a spin-on kit that orientates the filter vertically to make changing the filter easier. As with anything B&C, you pay the premium but you get the best.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S
gettin close
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pcondon(at)csc.com [mailto:pcondon(at)csc.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 2:29 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Cartrige to Filter Conversion
>
>
>
>
> I currently have the oil cartrige system in my RV and would
> like the filter
> instead of the cartrige. Does anyone how to convert or what
> is involved in
> conversion. Do I simply use a aviation champion filter (with
> the nipple).. Is
> it that simple or is there something more I am not grasping
> as yet ??? I
> replaced the oil screen (and housing) with a cartrige
> housing/casting assembly
> ... are there any tricks on that replacement that aren't
> obvious either ???
> .......thanks in advance...
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Japundza, Bob" <bjapundza(at)dowagro.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Cartrige to Filter Conversion |
I for some reason in my previous reply (I'm a spacehead today..too long staring
at a monitor) thought that you were going from just having the screen. I had
a conversation recently with the local IA about cartridge filters and he said
that he preferred them because at oil change you didn't have to cut it apart
to check for metal. Choose your poison, but I'm sure that the Champion oil filter
does a better job at filtering. Some time in the past year AOPA pilot had
an article that compared various filtering systems (oberg-adc, spin-on, screen,
etc) and the winner was the spin-on filter.
Bob Japundza
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark D. Dickens" <mddickens(at)mindspring.com> |
I've recently mounted both tanks and noticed that there is an ever so
slight slight puckering of the tank skin between the attachment screws
on the outboard edge of the tanks, where they meet the outboard leading
edge. The skins were edge formed before dimpling and I thought that
would ensure a tight fit of the tank skin against the splice plate. Has
anyone else had this problem? Is there a way to address this? I don't
see this as any kind of structural problem, but it bugs me to see it!
Thanks!
Mark Dickens
RV-8 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PANELCUT(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Need RV-8 panel outline |
Bill
I have a few different drawings instruments included for RV8's in autoCAD
format. Let me know what you need.
Steve Davis
The Panel Pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
Mike,
I was just comparing notes with Brian Denk about this yesterday.
I have the 72FM-(83) on my RV-6. I have the gearleg fairings(Tracy Saylor's) and
wheelpants (PR 2 piece) on, but do not the the intersection fairings on yet.
I can easily overspeed (rpm) my RV at 75-8500'. I haven't done any testing yet
to find out at what altitude I can run max throttle, and have it turn at 2700
rpm, or exactly what my best rate of climb is. I'll be doing that after I get
the intersection fairings on.
But I think it is a good compromise between climb and cruise, althought it might
be slightly underpitched at 83. I may add another inch of pitch a little later.
Just a data point for you.
Laird RV-6 (and giddy)
SoCal
Listers,
At:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=960925025-464-345&browse=props&product=sen-prop
Van's recommends the following prop for the fully-faired RV-6 (or -8)
running an O-360 engine:
72FM8S9-1(85)
I am wondering if anyone has "overpropped" their -6 or -8 with an
86-inch pitch (specified for a -4) and what were the results in speed
and climb?
I would expect an increase in speed and decrease in climb - but to what
degree?
I've been through the archives and not found this addressed directly.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "alain nantel" <alain_nantel(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bendix Fuel Injection Problems |
In a message posted by: PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com
>It doesn't seem to do this in full rich. The way I
>assumed (dooh!) that the mixture worked was full clockwise (at the
> >injector is idle cutoff.
Dave
You should have a close look at the arm that hit's the stop on the mixture
control. One of them has the indication writen in small letters "ICO" for
idle cut off. This is the arm that has to be on the stop to be in cut-off.
Hope this helps.
Alain Nantel(at)hotmail.com
RV-6 90% done 90% to go
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Tape |
In a message dated 6/13/00 10:09:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
nhunger(at)sprint.ca writes:
> Did you know that electrical tape comes in many different grades? They cover
> temperature gradients, moisture, tack, flammability, stretch, color, width,
> ect, ect...The stuff you get at Home Depot for $0.39 is junk.
Hi Norman: You couldn't be more right about cheap tape...They're cheap and
don't last on the job.
We carry 3M 33+...If you must use tape, it's one of the best.
Now the AD. Find it on AAMR/AirCore/Tape Page
Or http://members.aol.com/aamrelectr/Page6.html
Regards,
John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar
ineCore
(Chick the blue link to go there)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott.Fink(at)Microchip.com.Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:12:18.-0700(at)matronics.com |
06/13/2000 04:20:29 PM
Has anyone put tabs in the fuel filler neck a-la piper cherokees? I am
about ready to do my first tank and would really like to put one in each
tank. They have several advantages:
1. They give you an excellent visual point to stop fueling at a known
quantity (a calibrated stick here is not as easy to use during fueling)
2. They give you an excellent visual point to estimate the fuel quantity at
anything less than full fuel without having to use a stick
What I was wondering is has anyone done this and have a calibrated tab
length for a calibrated fuel quantity? By the way, I am building an RV6.
Scott Fink
RV6 ready to skin left wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vincent Himsl <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com> |
Hello,
The rib on the inboard side of each leading edge is slightly undersized to
accommodate the splice plate. If the alignment of that particular rib was
off enough when you assembled the skeleton, I could see where it might
cause the distortion in the gas tank skin when you tightened it down. It
is also an oversight that can be carried over to both wings which would
cause the same problem to appear twice as in your case. Another indication
of this would be that the leading edge skin dimples or bows on either the
top or bottom and conversely puckers on the opposite side.
I edge form after the dimple for no other reason than I never thought to do
it differently. So far have not had any problems other than you can over
do it by actually stretching or deforming the metal. This is indicated by
a wave effect when you 'sight' down along the edge.
About all I can think of. Hope this helps!
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8 Fuselage
At 6/13/00 03:52 PM, you wrote:
>
>I've recently mounted both tanks and noticed that there is an ever so
>slight slight puckering of the tank skin between the attachment screws
>on the outboard edge of the tanks, where they meet the outboard leading
>edge. The skins were edge formed before dimpling and I thought that
>would ensure a tight fit of the tank skin against the splice plate. Has
>anyone else had this problem? Is there a way to address this? I don't
>see this as any kind of structural problem, but it bugs me to see it!
>Thanks!
>
>Mark Dickens
>RV-8 Wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cartrige to Filter Conversion |
As I recall you would remove the base plate and nipple then a champion
CH4810 should screw right on. A Champion CH 4811 would also screw on but is
longer and probably wouldn't work on a RV.
If the engine has the dual mag single drive set up it also requires a
different filter.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
-----Original Message-----
From: pcondon(at)csc.com <pcondon(at)csc.com>
Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Cartrige to Filter Conversion
>
>
>I currently have the oil cartrige system in my RV and would like the filter
>instead of the cartrige. Does anyone how to convert or what is involved in
>conversion. Do I simply use a aviation champion filter (with the nipple)..
Is
>it that simple or is there something more I am not grasping as yet ??? I
>replaced the oil screen (and housing) with a cartrige housing/casting
assembly
>... are there any tricks on that replacement that aren't obvious either ???
>.......thanks in advance...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bendix Fuel Injection Problems |
Hi Dave:
Mike Robertson & Alien have covered your problem. By installing the arm up
you changed the ICO to full rich position.
The reason for my post is when the engine is flooded to this extent on a
fuel injected engine, if you have a piston coming up to TDC on the
compression stroke both the exhaust and intake valves would be closed and
this amount of fuel could cause hydraulicing and bent a con rod. When this
happens the prop should be turned carefully by hand checking for any signs
of hydraulicing. Also turning it backwards is probably safer however this is
not the best if you are running a dry vacuum pump.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
-----Original Message-----
From: PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com <PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com>
Date: Sunday, June 11, 2000 8:38 PM
Subject: RV-List: Bendix Fuel Injection Problems
>
> I'm gettting ready for my first engine run so I did a leak check on my
>fuel system. When I turn the electric fuel pump on with the mixture in
idle
>cutoff (At least what I think is idle cutoff) fuel spews from the drainage
>holes in my airbox. It doesn't seem to do this in full rich. The way I
>assumed (dooh!) that the mixture worked was full clockwise (at the
injector)
>is idle cutoff. I put the arm on top so it wouldn't hit the airbox so the
>arm comes forward for idle cutoff. I also put the fuel inlet on the left
side
>so it wouldn't interfer with the mixture arm. Can someone confirm for me
on
>their engine that clockwise is idle cutoff. Also, should the fuel
injector
>ever leak out the bottom with the fuel pump on, even in full rich. This is
a
>Bart Lolande engine and hasn't been run yet. I haven't had a chance to
pull
>the airbox yet to determine the exact leak location. Thanks in advance.
>
>Dave Beizer
>RV-6A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
New or overhauled engines can come equipped with three brands of plugs.
Auburn, Champion, and Unison. All seem to be of equal quality as far as life
and reliably , the Unison has one extra feature, plating so they won't rust.
Regardless of which one used you will get the odd failure, this is usually
due to dropping it on a cement floor.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B. C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harvey Sigmon" <flyhars(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bendix Fuel Injection Problems |
Alain: My last RV I had a I0-320-B1A, for the mixture to work in the right
direction I had to reverse the arm and have it pointed down and the arm had
to be bent to have clearance of the fuel line. The final bend on the arm
was in a shape to give proper clearance. As the previous poster indicate
look for the position of the ICO under the arm. It should not leak fuel
through the Servo in the cut off position. If fuel is running out of the
bottom of the servo the fuel is not being shut off at the mixture plates. If
the mixture plates are leaking you will notice a drop in fuel pressure
after the pump is turned off. Ask me how I know, I have been there. Hope
this helps.
Harvey Sigmon - RV-6AQB - Engine stuff.
----- Original Message -----
From: "alain nantel" <alain_nantel(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Bendix Fuel Injection Problems
>
>
> In a message posted by: PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com
> >It doesn't seem to do this in full rich. The way I
> >assumed (dooh!) that the mixture worked was full clockwise (at the
> > >injector is idle cutoff.
>
> Dave
>
> You should have a close look at the arm that hit's the stop on the mixture
> control. One of them has the indication writen in small letters "ICO" for
> idle cut off. This is the arm that has to be on the stop to be in cut-off.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
> Alain Nantel(at)hotmail.com
> RV-6 90% done 90% to go
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cartrige to Filter Conversion |
The only problem with a cartridge is the number of places for it to leak.
It is O.K. when it is warm out but when it turns cold, getting it cleaned up
and correctly installed can be a problem.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Japundza, Bob" <bjapundza(at)dowagro.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 3:40 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Oil Cartrige to Filter Conversion
>
> I for some reason in my previous reply (I'm a spacehead today..too long
staring at a monitor) thought that you were going from just having the
screen. I had a conversation recently with the local IA about cartridge
filters and he said that he preferred them because at oil change you didn't
have to cut it apart to check for metal. Choose your poison, but I'm sure
that the Champion oil filter does a better job at filtering. Some time in
the past year AOPA pilot had an article that compared various filtering
systems (oberg-adc, spin-on, screen, etc) and the winner was the spin-on
filter.
>
> Bob Japundza
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Push to Talk/MAC Trim Installation |
First, a question, then an observation...
Question: I need to put a hole in the control stick on my -6 so I can run
the wire bundle from the trim switches and push to talk. The best location I
can come up with is on the outside of the stick, just above the bend in the
stick. Is there a better location?
Observation: I thought the MAC trim system would be a simple "plug 'n play"
installation. Surprise!!... Lots and lots of solder connections. I count
55 solder connections in my system, 21 of them inside the little golf ball
sized knob that sits on top of the stick and houses 5 switches. Another
great example of a "little task" that turns into a multi evening project.
Don't even get me started about my left hand throttle installation...
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> |
| Subject: | Push to Talk/MAC Trim Installation |
This may have been discussed before on the list but I wouldn't personally
solder anything in any aircraft.
I used to work as an avionics technician and solder is a big 'no-no' unless
it's on a circuit board inside a radio. Soldered wires, cables etc. gets
brittle and may eventually break with vibrations and general handling of
harnesses - especially during installation. Use crimps and other non-solder
equipment. When wiring harness for avionics, also only crimp the wires on
the connectors, I would never solder.
It still turns into a multi evening project though :)
Just my .02 and advice.
Are
RV-6 C-GQRV (reserved)
KB wrote:
Lots and lots of solder connections. I count
55 solder connections in my system, 21 of them inside the little golf ball
sized knob that sits on top of the stick and houses 5 switches. Another
great example of a "little task" that turns into a multi evening project.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Push to Talk/MAC Trim Installation |
Is this true??? When doing R&D for Chrysler Corp. we were told to never
EVER use crimps. Everything was to be soldered as crimps apply pressure to
the wire in a very localized spot and that, combined with vibration was
invitation to broken connections. I also never saw a single crimp when
working for Martin Marietta on Longbow, Lantirn, etc. I'm not saying that
crimps are not the way to go......I've been out of that sort of thing for a
while now, maybe things have changed. Comments from the current experts?
Bill
>
> This may have been discussed before on the list but I wouldn't personally
> solder anything in any aircraft.
> I used to work as an avionics technician and solder is a big 'no-no'
unless
> it's on a circuit board inside a radio. Soldered wires, cables etc. gets
> brittle and may eventually break with vibrations and general handling of
> harnesses - especially during installation. Use crimps and other
non-solder
> equipment. When wiring harness for avionics, also only crimp the wires on
> the connectors, I would never solder.
> It still turns into a multi evening project though :)
>
> Just my .02 and advice.
>
> Are
> RV-6 C-GQRV (reserved)
>
> KB wrote:
> Lots and lots of solder connections. I count
> 55 solder connections in my system, 21 of them inside the little golf ball
> sized knob that sits on top of the stick and houses 5 switches. Another
> great example of a "little task" that turns into a multi evening project.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
June 09, 2000 - June 13, 2000
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ir