RV-Archive.digest.vol-is
June 13, 2000 - June 20, 2000
| From: | "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
Mark,
I think alot of RV's have this problem, I know mine does. It bugged the
hell out of me for a while before I flew the airplane, I don't even notice
it any more. The four RV's on our field all have it to some degree. I
don't think there is much you can do about it one the puckering is there.
Joe Hine
RV4 C-FYTQ
>
> I've recently mounted both tanks and noticed that there is an ever so
> slight slight puckering of the tank skin between the attachment screws
> on the outboard edge of the tanks, where they meet the outboard leading
> edge. The skins were edge formed before dimpling and I thought that
> would ensure a tight fit of the tank skin against the splice plate. Has
> anyone else had this problem? Is there a way to address this? I don't
> see this as any kind of structural problem, but it bugs me to see it!
> Thanks!
>
> Mark Dickens
> RV-8 Wings
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Century Instrument Reliability???? |
I used 5 rebuilt Century Instruments. 2 of the 5 have been back to shop and I
have 18 hours on the airplane. My airspeed had a leak from the ram pressure
side to the static side on the maiden flight. And at about 16 hours when I
was at 5500 feet it wound up faster than when I was climbing vertically at
max A/B during my F16 ride. It came to rest at 42520 feet and has not moved
since. Sure hope my two gyro instruments from Century last awhile longer.
Has anyone else has similar experience? These are yellow tagged rebuilt
instruments and 2 of my aviator friends whose judgement I value recommended
Century.
Bernie Kerr, 6A N60WM with 18 hours, SE FLA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Recombinant Gas Battery Charging from dead flat |
Thought I had a failproof system to not leaving the master on; but when you
sit in the hangar doing something with the master on, it is annoying to have
that EIS light blinking at you. I turned the EIS off (which is not my normal
procedure when I getting out of the cockpit after a flight)to turn the light
off, fiddled with one one of my avionic goodies and then went away for a
week. My 11 pound miracle battery was real whimpy with the last electron
depleted when I returned. It would not take a charge. After some discussion
with Tim at B&C specialty about how to get home from somewhere with a
similiar situation, he suggested that it would probably come back to life if
we applied 24-28 volts to it for about a minute until the charger read 10
amps. I hooked a12 volt battery in series with a 12 volt charger and in 75
seconds it was at 10 amps. I am chicken and kept a concrete wall between me
and the battery while doing this operation. After charging it about 5 hours
at 2 amps, it would not start the engine while hot. After it cooled it seems
to be just fine and continues to appear normal after 3 one hour flights.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
Yes, from Denver, the route to Leadville is fairly tame....landing/take off
there is no sweat...my RV6A with fixed prop.O-320 160HP doesn't seem to know
the difference from my 7,500-ft home airport. They give you a nice
certificate if you land there also.
From Leadville you can go south over Monarch Pass - 13,000-ft gives you good
clearance, and then on to Grand Junction its all down hill!
RV6A Flying
Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
I put fuel tank tabs in my 6A. Drew a sideview of the tank with proper
diheadral to get an educated guess of the height to set them at. But, I have
not used the tanks yet to get an actual gallon amount.
L.Adamson RV6A finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Make your own custom treminal blocks |
Hello Listers:
New Page!!!!
Make up your own custom terminal blocks AAMR/AirCore/ Terminal
blocks
or http://members.aol.com/aamrelectr/Page99.html
Regards,
John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar
ineCore
(Chick the blue link to go there)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
| Subject: | Push to Talk/MAC Trim Installation |
i don't believe there's any other option on the micro switches included in
the Mac grips. i just got through wiring a pair of g7's and any thing other
than a good solder joint would be too bulky. i can't really see a big
problem with solder (when necessary) especially when there are people who
think knife splices are still acceptable. (they probably are, but what do i
know....still, they scare me enough to remove them from my production plane
after much probs......)
Steven DiNieri
capsteve(at)wzrd.com
> Is this true??? When doing R&D for Chrysler Corp. we were told to never
> EVER use crimps. Everything was to be soldered as crimps apply
> pressure to
> the wire in a very localized spot and that, combined with vibration was
> invitation to broken connections. I also never saw a single crimp when
> working for Martin Marietta on Longbow, Lantirn, etc. I'm not saying that
> crimps are not the way to go......I've been out of that sort of
> thing for a
> while now, maybe things have changed. Comments from the current experts?
>
> Bill
>
>
> >
> > This may have been discussed before on the list but I wouldn't
> personally
> > solder anything in any aircraft.
> > I used to work as an avionics technician and solder is a big 'no-no'
> unless
> > it's on a circuit board inside a radio. Soldered wires, cables etc. gets
> > brittle and may eventually break with vibrations and general handling of
> > harnesses - especially during installation. Use crimps and other
> non-solder
> > equipment. When wiring harness for avionics, also only crimp
> the wires on
> > the connectors, I would never solder.
> > It still turns into a multi evening project though :)
> >
> > Just my .02 and advice.
> >
> > Are
> > RV-6 C-GQRV (reserved)
> >
> > KB wrote:
> > Lots and lots of solder connections. I count
> > 55 solder connections in my system, 21 of them inside the
> little golf ball
> > sized knob that sits on top of the stick and houses 5 switches. Another
> > great example of a "little task" that turns into a multi
> evening project.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Push to Talk/MAC Trim Installation |
In a message dated 6/13/00 6:24:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
billshook(at)mindspring.com writes:
<< When doing R&D for Chrysler Corp. we were told to never
EVER use crimps. Everything was to be soldered as crimps apply pressure to
the wire in a very localized spot and that, combined with vibration was
invitation to broken connections. I also never saw a single crimp when
working for Martin Marietta on Longbow, Lantirn, etc. I'm not saying that
crimps are not the way to go......I've been out of that sort of thing for a
while now, maybe things have changed. Comments from the current experts? >>
I guess I would qualify as an expert of sorts. For 25 years I worked as a
process/Mfg Engineer for a company making military computers for the DOD.
I'm well versed in soldering technology and also solderless connections. The
reliability data seem to favor crimped connections in MTBF calculations by an
order of magnitude, provided they are properly made. Soldering always
creates an abrupt transition with stranded wire that can become a stress
concentration point if the wiring is not properly supported.
MIL-C-22520 and other similar tools are designed to crimp machined military
contacts to stranded wire. The contacts must be the correct AWG range
(usually spanning three sizes, 18/20/22 AWG for example) for the wire to be
terminated. The crimping tools sometimes have adjustments to dial in the
specific wire gauge among the three, but not always. Military tools produce
a double four sided indent for round contacts and a double two side crimp for
ring terminals, so one should seek commercial tools that produce similar
features. It is important for the tool nest to hold the terminal/contact so
that, when forming the crimp, the terminal and the wire cold flow together to
obtain a gas tight joint (a needle nose pliers ain't gonna get it). If you
can't do it right then soldering is the next best thing although you must use
the right temperature tip and the correct solder/flux (eutectic Sn60/Pb40 or
Sn63/Pb37 with RMA core). The flux residues should be removed with solvent
(IPA, Acetone) for best results.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> |
| Subject: | Push to Talk/MAC Trim Installation |
Agreed - if it's not executed properly, then I guess a solder joint would
do. In the case of the 'coolie hat', soldering may be the only way. There
are many other areas that may require solder too but I would not use it on
any harnesses behind the panel or connection of lights etc. The connectors
on most (if not all) TSO'd equipment should be designed for solder-less
connections - the AWG requirement is stated in the manuals. You need a pin
extractor and some other tools to work with this properly. In all aircraft I
worked in (commercial also), I never seen a solder joint unless in headsets,
microphones etc.
It's not really difficult to get a good crimp with good crimps and quality
tools. This ensures that the pressure is distributed equally. It looks nice
and clean with two wires soldered together with heat-shrink to protect it
but the sharp edges in the solder joint will soon work its way through the
heat-shrink - unless it snaps of first.
Are (seems like the stiffener fabrication in emp kit never ends!)
RV-6
MIL-C-22520 and other similar tools are designed to crimp machined military
contacts to stranded wire. The contacts must be the correct AWG range
(usually spanning three sizes, 18/20/22 AWG for example) for the wire to be
terminated. The crimping tools sometimes have adjustments to dial in the
specific wire gauge among the three, but not always. Military tools produce
a double four sided indent for round contacts and a double two side crimp
for
ring terminals, so one should seek commercial tools that produce similar
features. It is important for the tool nest to hold the terminal/contact so
that, when forming the crimp, the terminal and the wire cold flow together
to
obtain a gas tight joint (a needle nose pliers ain't gonna get it). If you
can't do it right then soldering is the next best thing although you must
use
the right temperature tip and the correct solder/flux (eutectic Sn60/Pb40 or
Sn63/Pb37 with RMA core). The flux residues should be removed with solvent
(IPA, Acetone) for best results.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Push to Talk/MAC Trim Installation |
I didn't drill any holes in the stick. Just run the wires out the bottom of the
stick and lace them out of the way. Worked fine on mine.
The "solder/crimp"debate will never be answered. They both have their place in
aircraft and in this case, you don't have any choice. Once the wires are soldered
and properly laced in the Mac grip, there won't be any movement and no reason for
the wires to break.
Dave Bristol RV6, Going to the airport in 2 weeks!
KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> First, a question, then an observation...
>
> Question: I need to put a hole in the control stick on my -6 so I can run
> the wire bundle from the trim switches and push to talk. The best location ...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dgmurray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Wiring Confusion - Electric Gyros |
Listers,
I just recieved a couple of four pin connectors today from ACS - part #
MS3116e8-4S. They came in a plain plastic bag with no instructions as how to
install them. I figured out how they assemble together but have two
questions concerning them.
1. Are the wires supposed to be soldered to the cupped pins? - they are
way to small for a crimp.
2. Which pins are which? On the back of my RC Allen gyro they call out Pin
A - GND Motor, Pin B - +14 VDC Motor, Pin C- GND Light, Pin D - +14VDC
Light. I have no trouble knowing how to wire in the gyro BUT the position
of the pin labels leaves me confused. This is a rough drawing of what I
mean -
D
o o ------pins (4)
B 1A C
o o
Can any one tell me what the pin labels are supposed to be? The way the
labeling is I can see two choices for B,D, & C and four choiced for A.
Thanks for the help,
-----------------------------------------------------
Doug Murray RV-6 C-GRPA
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
Hi Scott,
I put them in my -6 tanks. It's 2.25" up from the bottom of the skin, perpendicular
to the middle of the fueling hole when in a tail low attitude. When I
did the fuel calibrations last month, it turns out that it indicates 11 gal remaining.
I also did stick dip tests at 2 gallons increments, and I came up with about 1/2"
per 2 gallons around that area.
It looks like I was about a 1/4" too high to get the 1/2 (9.5 gal) fuel like I
wanted. (So much for Solid Modeling CAD systems).
I did something a little different than Piper (I think), I bent a 1/2" wide strip
of .032 that attached at the lower stiffener just forward and just aft of the
fueling hole. It's kinda hard to describe, but dirt simple.
Contact me offline if you need more details, like maybe a .dxf file.
Laird RV-6 (17.9 hrs with some acro in the test card tomorrow)
SoCal
Has anyone put tabs in the fuel filler neck a-la piper cherokees? I am
about ready to do my first tank and would really like to put one in each
tank. They have several advantages:
1. They give you an excellent visual point to stop fueling at a known
quantity (a calibrated stick here is not as easy to use during fueling)
2. They give you an excellent visual point to estimate the fuel quantity at
anything less than full fuel without having to use a stick
What I was wondering is has anyone done this and have a calibrated tab
length for a calibrated fuel quantity? By the way, I am building an RV6.
Scott Fink
RV6 ready to skin left wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Push to Talk/MAC Trim Installation |
I second these comments (re: crimps/connectors). FWIW, the Van's wiring
drawing and wiring kit shows the use of a couple of Radio Shack terminal
strips . . . You can mount your MAC controllers next to these strips and run
their short wires to one side of the strip, then run the servo wires to the
other side of the strip. It's clean, neat, and simple.
Rick Jory
-----Original Message-----
From: Are Barstad <abarstad(at)bconnex.net>
Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 7:04 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Push to Talk/MAC Trim Installation
>
>This may have been discussed before on the list but I wouldn't personally
>solder anything in any aircraft.
>I used to work as an avionics technician and solder is a big 'no-no' unless
>it's on a circuit board inside a radio. Soldered wires, cables etc. gets
>brittle and may eventually break with vibrations and general handling of
>harnesses - especially during installation. Use crimps and other non-solder
>equipment. When wiring harness for avionics, also only crimp the wires on
>the connectors, I would never solder.
>It still turns into a multi evening project though :)
>
>Just my .02 and advice.
>
>Are
>RV-6 C-GQRV (reserved)
>
>KB wrote:
>Lots and lots of solder connections. I count
>55 solder connections in my system, 21 of them inside the little golf ball
>sized knob that sits on top of the stick and houses 5 switches. Another
>great example of a "little task" that turns into a multi evening project.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
>Purely out of curiosity... how does 9 g's "slowly and carefully
>applied"
>differ from 9 g's "suddenly applied"?
Inertia ??
Larry Mac Donald
Rochester, N.Y.
empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
| From: | Denis Walsh <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net> |
on 6/13/00 23:46, Owens, Laird at Owens(at)aerovironment.com wrote:
>
> Hi Scott,
>
> I put them in my -6 tanks. It's 2.25" up from the bottom of the skin,
> perpendicular to the middle of the fueling hole when in a tail low attitude.
> When I did the fuel calibrations last month, it turns out that it indicates 11
> gal remaining.
>
> I also did stick dip tests at 2 gallons increments, and I came up with about
> 1/2" per 2 gallons around that area.
>
> It looks like I was about a 1/4" too high to get the 1/2 (9.5 gal) fuel like
I
> wanted. (So much for Solid Modeling CAD systems).
>
> I did something a little different than Piper (I think), I bent a 1/2" wide
> strip of .032 that attached at the lower stiffener just forward and just aft
> of the fueling hole. It's kinda hard to describe, but dirt simple.
>
> Contact me offline if you need more details, like maybe a .dxf file.
>
> Laird RV-6 (17.9 hrs with some acro in the test card tomorrow)
> SoCal
>
>
>
>
> Has anyone put tabs in the fuel filler neck a-la piper cherokees? I am
> about ready to do my first tank and would really like to put one in each
> tank. They have several advantages:
>
> 1. They give you an excellent visual point to stop fueling at a known
> quantity (a calibrated stick here is not as easy to use during fueling)
> 2. They give you an excellent visual point to estimate the fuel quantity at
> anything less than full fuel without having to use a stick
>
> What I was wondering is has anyone done this and have a calibrated tab
> length for a calibrated fuel quantity? By the way, I am building an RV6.
>
> Scott Fink
> RV6 ready to skin left wing
>
>
On my 6A, the reference points are: when the fuel level first disappears at
the bottom of the tank, there is 5.5 gallons remaining. About 1,5 inch more
and you have the half, 9.5. Beware both oil and fuel readings are
different with trike vs tail wheel models.
I think the two gallons per inch is good, in the "visible" range of the tank
filling process. I E when you burn down the first half inch, you have used
the first gallon. When you have used down to the floor of the tank, you
have used about 13 gallons. I think the depth of the tank is about 6 inches
so two gal per inch is close.
I have never used the tabs so can't speak to that: however you can peer into
the RV tank and see the level on the outboard rib while filling. This
allows you to eyeball the fuel level pretty good.
--
Denis L.(Bum) Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Solder vs crimp WAS Push to Talk/MAC Trim Installation |
Gary wrote:
> reliability data seem to favor crimped connections in MTBF calculations by
an > order of magnitude, provided they are properly made. Soldering always
> creates an abrupt transition with stranded wire that can become a stress
> concentration point if the wiring is not properly supported.
I'm certainly a non-expert but....
Clue I was once given by an expert is that solder joints ***MUST*** be
mechanically sound before soldering. Wires twisted together etc first.
Don't use solder as glue. Never heat the solder, just the wires. It does
work. You can see all kinds of vibrating equipment such as motors, starting
capacitors, alternator diodes etc that are soldered and last for many years.
If I were working as an industrial engineer and specifying the setup for a
small aircraft assembly line, I would specify crimps. Easy to teach
operator to use, more reliable, faster, easier to service in the field etc.
I would of course, specify the correct $200+ tool.
I wonder how reliable connections made with $4.95 crimpers are??
I had some work done on my Debonair by a former NASA electronic tech who
soldered wires to switches etc. Wrapped the wire, soldered, installed
shrink tube over it, anchored wire a few inches away. Probably better than
poor quality, easily corroded crimps that are poorly done.
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Winters <dwinters(at)acraline.com> |
Ever ride a rollercoaster?
-----Original Message-----
From: lm4(at)juno.com [mailto:lm4(at)juno.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Turbulence
>Purely out of curiosity... how does 9 g's "slowly and carefully
>applied"
>differ from 9 g's "suddenly applied"?
Inertia ??
Larry Mac Donald
Rochester, N.Y.
empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Japundza, Bob" <bjapundza(at)dowagro.com> |
| Subject: | Push to Talk/MAC Trim Installation |
I did exactly what Dave mentioned...I ran the wires through black anti-chafe
"spaghetti" available from Wicks (its the black stuff), and drilled a small
hole at the very bottom of the stick for a zip-tie and fastened it so the
rod-end bearings wouldn't interfere. I used a bit of slack and clamped the
wires to the seat rib...no interference problems. I also stuffed a piece of
foam rubber in the bottom of the stick for insurance to keep some of those
slacking thin wires from the stick grip from migrating down to the bottom.
Bob Japundza
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Bristol [mailto:bj034(at)lafn.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 11:46 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Push to Talk/MAC Trim Installation
>
>
>
> I didn't drill any holes in the stick. Just run the wires out
> the bottom of the
> stick and lace them out of the way. Worked fine on mine.
> The "solder/crimp"debate will never be answered. They both
> have their place in
> aircraft and in this case, you don't have any choice. Once
> the wires are soldered
> and properly laced in the Mac grip, there won't be any
> movement and no reason for
> the wires to break.
>
> Dave Bristol RV6, Going to the airport in 2 weeks!
>
> KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> >
> > First, a question, then an observation...
> >
> > Question: I need to put a hole in the control stick on my
> -6 so I can run
> > the wire bundle from the trim switches and push to talk.
> The best location ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Wischmeyer <edwisch(at)aa.net> |
| Subject: | Century Instruments |
Century Instruments used to be real good 5 years ago, but they've had
lots of turnover since. I have no opinion on the quality of their
instruments now. I have had two attitude indicators in a row that did
not survive well in my RV-4, but I don't know if it's my environment or
their overhaul.
Ed Wischmeyer
--
NOTE: 5% of messages sent to me don't make it, so use a return receipt to
insure delivery. The phone company system drops packets.
- - - - - - - -
Ed Wischmeyer
Web page: http://members.aa.net/~edwisch
Email: edwisch(at)aa.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Oshkosh get togeather |
Time to organize the RV LIST TABLE at Vans dinner in Oshkosh this next
month.
In the past, we have met at the table, briefly said hi to one another,
then proceeded to listen to the goins on. I felt we didn't get to meet
one another much.
This year I am going to change that somewhat. Before we go inside there
will be, as in the past, a get togeather outside on the grass, at a no
host bar. This year I will have something to say RV LIST on it so we can
gather there and get to put faces to names VIA the new name badges we all
have now thanks to panelpilot.
I just got word from Barbara at Vans that the time and place is now set
in stone.
Pioneer Inn & Marina
Saturday July 29, 2000
6:15pm to 7:30pm Cocktails
7:30pm to 9:30pm Dinner
Midwest Buffet - $18.50 per person
Those of you that would like to be at our table. Get yourself and friend
(lover) on the list by sending a note to me off list to
cecilth(at)juno.com
NOTE NOTE: The list is growing every year. The number of people building
RVs, is growing faster. The room at Pioneer Inn holds three hundred of
us. DO THE MATH. Make sure your seat is reserved. Send Barbara your
money now to reserve your spot. It won't do yourself any good to put
yourself on my list unless you have a ticket.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Solder vs crimp |
>
>Gary wrote:
>> reliability data seem to favor crimped connections in MTBF calculations by
>an > order of magnitude, provided they are properly made. Soldering always
>> creates an abrupt transition with stranded wire that can become a stress
>> concentration point if the wiring is not properly supported.
>
>I'm certainly a non-expert but....
>
>Clue I was once given by an expert is that solder joints ***MUST*** be
>mechanically sound before soldering. Wires twisted together etc first.
>Don't use solder as glue. Never heat the solder, just the wires. It does
>work. You can see all kinds of vibrating equipment such as motors, starting
>capacitors, alternator diodes etc that are soldered and last for many years.
True . . . most of the ol' mechanic's tales circulating around
out there take tidbits of reliability data out of context and use
them to hammer an alternative view.
Facts are: both crimp and solder joints turn STRANDED wire
into SOLID wire . . . take a look at a cross-section of any
crimped/soldered joint and there are NO VOIDS between the strands.
I.e., gas and moisture tight . . .
Both crimp and solder joints in point to point wiring are subject
to motion induced flexure at the transition between where the wire
is stranded and where the wire is solid. This is why a crimped joint
has TWO supports . . . one for the wire and one for the insulation
immediately adjacent to the wire crimp.
Solder is a structurally quantifiable material . . . a joint that
is held together only with solder has a quantifiable tensile
strength. For example, there are bizillions of components attached
to circuit boards using only solder as both the mechanical and
electrical bond. There are lots of soft and hard soldered assemblies
used thoughout the industrialized world that perform as intended
for the lifetime of the product.
>If I were working as an industrial engineer and specifying the setup for a
>small aircraft assembly line, I would specify crimps. Easy to teach
>operator to use, more reliable, faster, easier to service in the field etc.
>I would of course, specify the correct $200+ tool.
Solderless joints do indeed reduce dependency on skill and
selection of materials . . they're also less hazardous to
upholstery, paint and plastic.
>I wonder how reliable connections made with $4.95 crimpers are??
>
>I had some work done on my Debonair by a former NASA electronic tech who
>soldered wires to switches etc. Wrapped the wire, soldered, installed
>shrink tube over it, anchored wire a few inches away. Probably better than
>poor quality, easily corroded crimps that are poorly done.
Exactly. Bottom line is learn to work with either or both
technologies. I have a tool box in my desk at Raytheon.
It measures about 3 x 5 x 8 inches. It contains a selection
of hand tools that allow me to approach a lot of tasks at
work in the office and in the field. It will fit in my briefcase
and let me be out-the-door in minutes.
No crimp tools. Only a butane powered soldering iron that has
a fine enough tip to solder a d-sub connector and enough BTU's
to solder a 2AWG terminal onto it's wire. That's a lot of
capability in a 3 ounce tool.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Confusion - Electric Gyros |
In a message dated 6/13/00 10:40:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net writes:
<< I just received a couple of four pin connectors today from ACS - part #
MS3116e8-4S. They came in a plain plastic bag with no instructions as how to
install them. I figured out how they assemble together but have two
questions concerning them.
1. Are the wires supposed to be soldered to the cupped pins? - they are
way to small for a crimp.>>
They are probably solder cups if they are installed in the connector already.
Crimp type pins come separate and you must crimp, then install.
<< 2. Which pins are which? On the back of my RC Allen gyro they call out
Pin
A - GND Motor, Pin B - +14 VDC Motor, Pin C- GND Light, Pin D - +14VDC
Light. I have no trouble knowing how to wire in the gyro BUT the position
of the pin labels leaves me confused. This is a rough drawing of what I
mean -
D
o o ------pins (4)
B 1A C
o o
Can any one tell me what the pin labels are supposed to be? >>
On military type connectors (MIL-C-5015 and similar) each pin has one and
only one designation, there is not a choice. If you look closely each of the
markings will be nearer to one pin than another. If there is a keyway often
pin 1(A) will be adjacent to it.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Push to Talk/MAC Trim Installation |
Using the strip connector method (as outlined below) allows for tracing bugs and
trouble-shooting your installation and adding/deleting/modifying assemblies
easier...........
rickjory(at)email.msn.com on 06/14/2000 08:50:48 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Push to Talk/MAC Trim Installation
I second these comments (re: crimps/connectors). FWIW, the Van's wiring
drawing and wiring kit shows the use of a couple of Radio Shack terminal
strips . . . You can mount your MAC controllers next to these strips and run
their short wires to one side of the strip, then run the servo wires to the
other side of the strip. It's clean, neat, and simple.
Rick Jory
-----Original Message-----
From: Are Barstad <abarstad(at)bconnex.net>
Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 7:04 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Push to Talk/MAC Trim Installation
>
>This may have been discussed before on the list but I wouldn't personally
>solder anything in any aircraft.
>I used to work as an avionics technician and solder is a big 'no-no' unless
>it's on a circuit board inside a radio. Soldered wires, cables etc. gets
>brittle and may eventually break with vibrations and general handling of
>harnesses - especially during installation. Use crimps and other non-solder
>equipment. When wiring harness for avionics, also only crimp the wires on
>the connectors, I would never solder.
>It still turns into a multi evening project though :)
>
>Just my .02 and advice.
>
>Are
>RV-6 C-GQRV (reserved)
>
>KB wrote:
>Lots and lots of solder connections. I count
>55 solder connections in my system, 21 of them inside the little golf ball
>sized knob that sits on top of the stick and houses 5 switches. Another
>great example of a "little task" that turns into a multi evening project.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ollie Washburn" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Recombinant Gas Battery Charging from dead flat |
On the subject of recombinant batteries I read somewhere(can't remember
where) that recombinant batteries can not be charged with a 2 amp
charger.You might check with mfg. Ollie N795LW 6A flying.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rv660wm(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 10:35 PM
Subject: RV-List: Recombinant Gas Battery Charging from dead flat
>
> Thought I had a failproof system to not leaving the master on;
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott.Fink(at)Microchip.com.Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:27:31.-0700(at)matronics.com |
06/14/2000 09:35:43 AM
Laird,
I think I get it, you made a U-shaped strip that attached to two different
stiffners, right?
Excuse my ASCII art, but something like this:
___________
| |
| |
| |
|| ||
|| ||
|___ |____
Where the stiffners are the two "L"s at the bottom. Does this look like
what you did?
If you have a .dxf file, I would sure appreciate if you could send it to me
off list.
After a little thought, 11 gallons seems like a really good number to be
able to fuel to, with an O360 this would give you two hours of fuel (1.5
hours with reserve), and a little fudge factor on the safe side.
Would it be possible to get the results of your dip-stick tests? That
would tell me more than I could have hoped for.
Scott Fink
RV6 ready to skin left wing
"Owens, Laird"
cc:
Sent by: Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel
Tabs
owner-rv-list-server@mat
ronics.com
06/13/2000 10:46 PM
Please respond to
rv-list
Hi Scott,
I put them in my -6 tanks. It's 2.25" up from the bottom of the skin,
perpendicular to the middle of the fueling hole when in a tail low
attitude. When I did the fuel calibrations last month, it turns out that
it indicates 11 gal remaining.
I also did stick dip tests at 2 gallons increments, and I came up with
about 1/2" per 2 gallons around that area.
It looks like I was about a 1/4" too high to get the 1/2 (9.5 gal) fuel
like I wanted. (So much for Solid Modeling CAD systems).
I did something a little different than Piper (I think), I bent a 1/2" wide
strip of .032 that attached at the lower stiffener just forward and just
aft of the fueling hole. It's kinda hard to describe, but dirt simple.
Contact me offline if you need more details, like maybe a .dxf file.
Laird RV-6 (17.9 hrs with some acro in the test card tomorrow)
SoCal
Has anyone put tabs in the fuel filler neck a-la piper cherokees?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Recombinant Gas Battery Charging from dead flat |
In a message dated 6/14/00 12:13:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com writes:
<< On the subject of recombinant batteries I read somewhere(can't remember
where) that recombinant batteries can not be charged with a 2 amp
charger.You might check with mfg. Ollie N795LW 6A flying >>
Hi Ollie,
Sorry I mislead you to think I was trying to charge with a 2 amp charger.
Originally I was trying to charge with a 10 amp, 12 volt battery; but it was
doing nothing. The voltmeter on the battery reads zero and I left it on for
several hours. After I hit it with 24 volts, I was charging it with a 6 amp
charger; but it was only taking a 2-3 amp charge on the chargers ampmeter.
I like your new paint job and meant to talk to you at Sebring about who did
it, but got yacking and missed you.
Bernie Kerr, 6A N60WM, 19 hours, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Push to Talk/MAC Trim Installation |
>> Question: I need to put a hole in the control stick on my -6 so I can
run
>> the wire bundle from the trim switches and push to talk.
On my left stick I took the wires out the bottom but my right stick is
removeable. I took the wire bundle out an oval hole out the back. I'm still
looking for a good connector plug. When you come around a corner with the
wire touching a metal edge, be sure to tie wrap the wire right back onto the
bottom of the stick shaft. The wire does a 180 and gets firmly attached to
what it just came out of. This eliminates chafing and will increase service
life.
>> Observation: I thought the MAC trim system would be a simple "plug 'n
play"
>> installation. Surprise!!... Lots and lots of solder connections. I
count
>> 55 solder connections in my system, 21 of them inside the little golf
ball
>> sized knob that sits on top of the stick and houses 5 switches. Another
>> great example of a "little task" that turns into a multi evening project.
We all know how the Infinity stick grips are the most expensive out here but
just to keep the apples with the apples Infinity does 16 solders for you.
Each grip comes with three feet of very nice quality cable soldered on. They
don't seem quite as expensive when you realize that you get more. Took
exactly ten weeks to receive.
I recently received my Infinity stick grips and it took about five minutes
to figure out that the installation will add several hours to the
construction time. It is hard to describe but there's fitting then there's
wiring and it all takes time. Very impressive looks though. Flaps, trim,
fuel pump, push to talk (on the trigger!), map lights, and one more I
haven't decided on.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: [rv8list] New Vans Service Letter - addendum |
Folks,
The point of the service letter mod is to ensure that the fuel pick is where
it is supposed to be rather than having rotated so as to unport. Apparently
that is what happened with the RV-8 in question that experienced a power
failure and off-field landing.
Instead of doing this mod couldn't one just take a small inspection mirror
and a flashlight in through the fuel inlet and inspect for proper position?
Once your fuel lines are tightened nothing will move.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, fwf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "noeldrew" <noeldrew(at)iafrica.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Recombinant Gas Battery Charging from dead flat |
I am involved in a business making battery chargers and I hope I can help
with some comments on this subject.
Recombinant batteries should be charged with a regulated charger as they do
not take kindly to an overcharge that results in the generation of heat and
gas. Most low cost (2 amp) chargers are not regulated but, if you are
prepared to monitor continuously the battery voltage while it is charging,
and ensure that the battery does not exceed 14.4 volts at a temperature of
77degrees F, no harm will be done. Be careful with unregulated chargers as
the voltage can rise quickly at the end of charge if a powerful charger is
used. Treat this advice as for emergency only and get yourself a regulated
charger. Expect this to cost not less than your battery!
Recombinant batteries have a remarkable ability to absorb power (indicated
by charging amps) so the heavy charge at the start of the charge will have
done no harm. I often see 30 amps on my RV6's ammeter for a few minutes if
my battery has done any work. A battery that is warming up under charge is
your best warning to back off the charge. All recombinant batteries are
fitted with safety valves to prevent explosion but the release of gas is
water lost from your battery that is needed and cannot be replaced.
A trap exists with regulated chargers in that they are usually polarity
protected and won't switch on if the electronic circuit can't detect a
voltage. A dead flat battery is therefore regarded as possibly incorrectly
connected and the charger does not respond. Having checked for correct
polarity connection of the positive and negative leads, jump start the
charger from any source that will give you at least 8 volts. Some chargers
have a start button for the same purpose but we prefer not to provide this
option as a mistake with connection will toast the charger.
The charger you purchase will have important safety instructions. Please
follow them.
Noel Drew
ZU-APF RV6 320 hours
Durban
South Africa
www.hawkins(at)iafrica.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ollie Washburn <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com>
Date: 14 June 2000 06:15
Subject: Re: RV-List: Recombinant Gas Battery Charging from dead flat
>
> On the subject of recombinant batteries I read somewhere(can't remember
>where) that recombinant batteries can not be charged with a 2 amp
>charger.You might check with mfg. Ollie N795LW 6A flying.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Rv660wm(at)AOL.COM>
>To:
>Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 10:35 PM
>Subject: RV-List: Recombinant Gas Battery Charging from dead flat
>
>
>>
>> Thought I had a failproof system to not leaving the master on;
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Fuel Pickup Checking |
I would encourage everyone to test what the unusable fuel is in the system as
well as test the actual fuel capacity.
On my RV-4 I drained the tanks using the boost pump and then drained the
remaining fuel out of the fuel sump fitting just to see what was left.
-Rob Hickman
RV-4 N401RH ~45 Hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George True <true(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pickup Checking |
RobHickman(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> I would encourage everyone to test what the unusable fuel is in the system as
> well as test the actual fuel capacity.
>
> On my RV-4 I drained the tanks using the boost pump and then drained the
> remaining fuel out of the fuel sump fitting just to see what was left.
>
> -Rob Hickman
> RV-4 N401RH ~45 Hours
>
And how much did you determine was unusable? (Inquiring minds want to know.)
George True
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pickup Checking |
Just for grins, what was the delta fuel amt. ? Did you do it tail low or tail
in flying config?
RobHickman(at)aol.com on 06/14/2000 03:28:26 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Pickup Checking
I would encourage everyone to test what the unusable fuel is in the system as
well as test the actual fuel capacity.
On my RV-4 I drained the tanks using the boost pump and then drained the
remaining fuel out of the fuel sump fitting just to see what was left.
-Rob Hickman
RV-4 N401RH ~45 Hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
Fellow Listers:
Just thought I'd mention the use of a product that is great for side
upholstery panels in RVs (or any aircraft for that matter). I have mounted
my side upholstery fabric (from DJ) on 4mm thick polyboard that goes by the
trade name of Coroplast. It is used in the sign making industry and it's
construction is just like corrugated cardboard except it is made from
polypropylene plastic.
It is lightweight and be cut with scissors or an Exacto knife. I attached
the sidewall fabric to it with spray adhesive and it is held in place on the
fuselage cabin wall with double face carpet tape. Artex Products carries it
(the upholstery people that advertise in T-A-P or this supply house carries
it ( http://www.southlandsignsupplies.com/catalog/ca20.htm). About $10 for
a 4' x 8' piece.
Doug
===========
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pickup Checking |
In a message dated 06/14/2000 4:36:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
true(at)uswest.net writes:
<< And how much did you determine was unusable? (Inquiring minds want to
know.)
>>
I'm not the original poster, but my results were: one cup on the conventional
side, and 1.5 cups on the side with the flop tube (I have no idea why I put
that thing in there with no other inverted systems.)
These results give me added confidence that any water in the tank will be
drained long before enough accumulates to reach the pickup tube, which is an
issue if you have no gascolator, like me. But then by not having one, I hope
never to have vapor lock.
-Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [rv8list] New Vans Service Letter - addendum |
Randy,
That is exactly what I am planning on doing.
I also thought you might be able to determine if the fuel pick-up tube is in
the proper position by inserting a small wire into the tank drain, (take the
drain out first) & feel if the tube is in the correct position. My wings are
on, tanks sealed etc. & I don't want to take the tank covers off.
I am also going to fill one tank 100% & use the boost pump to drain that
tank via a filter (this will clean the tank) into the other tank. I will use
this procedure to ensure that 21 gallon are transferring, Thus the tube is
correctly positioned. I will repeat the procedure & ultimately have 10.5
gals in each tank for the initial engine start & run.
Mark Steffensen
8A Dallas, TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: [rv8list] New Vans Service Letter - addendum
>
> Folks,
>
> The point of the service letter mod is to ensure that the fuel pick is
where
> it is supposed to be rather than having rotated so as to unport.
Apparently
> that is what happened with the RV-8 in question that experienced a power
> failure and off-field landing.
>
> Instead of doing this mod couldn't one just take a small inspection mirror
> and a flashlight in through the fuel inlet and inspect for proper
position?
> Once your fuel lines are tightened nothing will move.
>
> Randy Lervold
> RV-8, #80500, fwf
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6captain(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Tilt up canopy problem |
I'm just finishing up building my canopy frame on a RV-6 it is the tilt up
version. Me and a fellow RV-6 builder in the area are having the same
problem. When the canopy is tilted up the aluminum skin on the canopy frame
top interferes with the top forward skin of the fuselage causing it to "pop"
and in my case would cause the aluminum to kink if tilted. I already have a
1/16'' gap between the canopy skin and the top fuselage skin is this not
enough?
Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Eli Lewis
Venice, FL
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 65 Msgs - 06/13/00 |
With the stick moved forward, the stick length from the f-604 to the top of
the stick is 13 13/16 inches. Your stick length will vary depending on
where you drill the block that supports the control mechanism.
FWIW, I have relieved some material from the flange of the f-604, but only
to the point where it begins to turn downward.
Tom Barnes -6 finishing
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
> Subject: RV-List: RV6 Control Stick Movement
>
>
> I found an interesting bit of trivia in the archives that is worth posting
> and it leads to my question.
>
> RV6 control stick movement is 23 degrees left and right then 20 degrees
back
> and 16 degrees forward. The post was by one of the reputables.
>
> So what is the height from the top of the seatpan at F-604 to the top of
the
> stick grip?
>
>
> Thank-you,
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)arlington.net> |
| Subject: | Re: West System Epoxy - Cotton Fiber |
John, imagine no longer! I and others have had inadequate clearance
between the spinner and the cowl. The solution is to fill the aft side
of the upper and lower cowls with flox and a couple layers of glass,
then sand for the perfect gap from the spinner.
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas
-6A flying through 210 hours and going to Airfair in July!
John Oliveira wrote:
>
>
> Cotton Fiber is mixed with the epoxy to make structural fillets or fill
> gaps where strength is needed. It works very much like chopped glass
> fibers without the problems fibers cause in handling. (getting into
> skin, etc.) Much safer.
>
> I cannot imagine anyplace you would use it on an aluminum airplane.
> When hard it is extremely difficult to sand. Right up their with high
> density filler.
>
> If you were using it in a glass airplane, it would be for fillets when
> installing structural bulkheads or ribs before taping.
>
> John Oliveira
> RV9a N909RV
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Dwg. 28 r5 error |
In preparing to drill my F-824 aft side skins this afternoon, I
discovered that the match hole on the F-823 center side skins (as called
out on Dwg. 28 r5) is wrong. If you use that match hole, none of the
bulkheads line up with the prepunched holes in F-824. The correct match
hole on F-823 is one forward of the hole on the drawing. Van's
confirmed this and said that they've already issued r6 of this drawing.
My fuse kit shipped in early April and still had the r5 drawing.
--
Regards,
Ken Balch
Ashland, MA
RV-8 #81125
drilling fuselage skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [rv8list] New Vans Service Letter - addendum |
It seems to me that by filling only 1/2 gallon of fuel in a tank known to be
empty, then watching how much fuel pumps out, one could prove the point
without having to deal with so much bulk. Then if the fuel doesn't flow,
begin the investigation with a near empty tank.
Tom Barnes
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Steffensen <steffco1(at)home.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: [rv8list] New Vans Service Letter - addendum
~snip~
> I am also going to fill one tank 100% & use the boost pump to drain that
> tank via a filter (this will clean the tank) into the other tank. I will
use
> this procedure to ensure that 21 gallon are transferring, Thus the tube is
> correctly positioned. I will repeat the procedure & ultimately have 10.5
> gals in each tank for the initial engine start & run.
>
> Mark Steffensen
> 8A Dallas, TX
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 7:20 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: [rv8list] New Vans Service Letter - addendum
>
>
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > The point of the service letter mod is to ensure that the fuel pick is
> where
> > it is supposed to be rather than having rotated so as to unport.
> Apparently
> > that is what happened with the RV-8 in question that experienced a power
> > failure and off-field landing.
> >
> > Instead of doing this mod couldn't one just take a small inspection
mirror
> > and a flashlight in through the fuel inlet and inspect for proper
> position?
> > Once your fuel lines are tightened nothing will move.
> >
> > Randy Lervold
> > RV-8, #80500, fwf
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Pictures of My RV-6 |
"rv-list"
Hi all,
Since I bored you all with tales of my Setrab oil cooler failure and other such
nonsence, I thought I'd share some pictures of my new flying machine.
It's not quite finished, it still needs the intersection fairings fab'ed, which
is why the cowl, gearleg fairings, and wheel pants are not yet painted. I also
left the tail fairing unpainted in case I had to change the incidence of the
fin or stab. I didn't.
I'll post some more pictures of some of the special details that might be of interest
in the future.
Please turn you mouse to :
http://members3.clubphoto.com/laird244198/Laird_RV-6_N515L/
Thanks,
Laird RV-6
SoCal
PS Hey Gary...How do I get this album tied to the SoCal albums?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [rv8list] New Vans Service Letter - addendum |
What happens years down the road if the plane gets sold or if you forget??
I haven't done the mod yet, but to me it looked pretty simple.
Just my humble opinion . . .
Rick Jory
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Lervold <randy@rv-8.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: [rv8list] New Vans Service Letter - addendum
>
>Folks,
>
>The point of the service letter mod is to ensure that the fuel pick is
where
>it is supposed to be rather than having rotated so as to unport. Apparently
>that is what happened with the RV-8 in question that experienced a power
>failure and off-field landing.
>
>Instead of doing this mod couldn't one just take a small inspection mirror
>and a flashlight in through the fuel inlet and inspect for proper position?
>Once your fuel lines are tightened nothing will move.
>
>Randy Lervold
>RV-8, #80500, fwf
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pickup Checking |
RobHickman(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> I would encourage everyone to test what the unusable fuel is in the system as
> well as test the actual fuel capacity.
>
I ran mine dry to check them flying and both took 15.6 to fill in my -4.
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Ludwig" <ludwig(at)azstarnet.com> |
| Subject: | Question on gyros... |
I'm planning the panel layout of my RV-8 and am soliciting comments
regarding two issues.
1) I'm thinking about running only electric gyros - do you think it would
affect resale value considering that an electrical system failure would
leave you gyroless? This will be a night VFR plane.
2) Caging during aerobatics - is it necessary? How about an electric gyro
that is turned off? Will it still damage the gyro? Will it flop around
even if it is not powered up?
Thanks for the help,
- Bill in Tucson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pictures of My RV-6 |
Plane looks there Laird! You've picqued my interest though. What are the
two horizontal things on the roll bar?
Also, will your panel fit a tip up or does it make no difference. Do you
have an alternate design that allows the throttle, mixture, prop to be
placed in the center?
Mike Nellis
RV-6 Wings - Plainfield, IL
http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
----- Original Message -----
From: "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com>
"rv-list"
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 6:25 PM
Subject: RV-List: Pictures of My RV-6
>
> Hi all,
>
> Since I bored you all with tales of my Setrab oil cooler failure and other
such nonsence, I thought I'd share some pictures of my new flying machine.
>
> It's not quite finished, it still needs the intersection fairings fab'ed,
which is why the cowl, gearleg fairings, and wheel pants are not yet
painted. I also left the tail fairing unpainted in case I had to change the
incidence of the fin or stab. I didn't.
>
> I'll post some more pictures of some of the special details that might be
of interest in the future.
>
> Please turn you mouse to :
>
> http://members3.clubphoto.com/laird244198/Laird_RV-6_N515L/
>
> Thanks,
>
> Laird RV-6
> SoCal
> PS Hey Gary...How do I get this album tied to the SoCal albums?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Wentzell <wntzl(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse Jig RV-6 Available |
Builders,
In a couple of weeks I will have an RV-6 Fuse Jig available. I am #4 on this jig.
It
has been pased on for $100 (covers the cost of the levelers at the 6 supports I'm
told)
. It was built somewhere in the Carolinas I believe - very true, very straight,
and
very nicely built. It will break down into 3 sections for easy transport.
Call, Fax, or e-mail if interested.
David Wentzell , Racine, Wisconsin
262-632-8440 Days; 681-3451 Eves; Fax: 632-8443 Work, 639-9181 Home
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Japundza, Bob" <bjapundza(at)dowagro.com> |
| Subject: | wingtip extensions (and anxious to fly) |
Listers,
I am planning on doing the wintip lights tomorrow night and am wondering if the
wingtip extensions are necessary for night VFR/IFR certification. I have the
extensions but honestly, I'm soon ready for inspection and 2-3 nights of fiddling
with fiberglass is not my idea of fun. I don't care that much about aesthetics
in regard to the lights, but since I'm using the strobe/position/aft facing
whelens...is it likely that the inspector could limit me to day VFR because
of the prescribed visibility requirements? Anyone have an inspector flag you
for this?
Bob Japundza
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas McIntyre <bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pickup Checking |
Thats only half the story. How much did you start with?
Tom
John Kitz wrote:
>
> RobHickman(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> >
> > I would encourage everyone to test what the unusable fuel is in the system
as
> > well as test the actual fuel capacity.
> >
>
> I ran mine dry to check them flying and both took 15.6 to fill in my -4.
> John Kitz
> N721JK
> Ohio
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM |
any thoughts of using scotch brite pads or emory cloth instead of this
tedious deburring???? bob in arkansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | porterbob(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tilt up canopy problem |
This one really strikes home for me. I did a spectacular job of fitting
this area and making a good tight joint, only to open the canopy and
screw up both the canopy and forward skin.
I cut the canopy portion back about 1/8 inch in the center of the plane
between the hinges (and tapered a little beyond the hinges to blend in
smoothly). Then I filled the gap with an epoxy filler to ramp down to
the level of the underside of the canopy skin. At the very sides of the
plane the forward skin and the canopy skin fit up with zero gap. On the
top of the plane the gap is not too noticable due to the smooth
transition of the epoxy filler. You need to be pretty tall to really
see this area anyway. This worked great for me.
Bob Porter
New Orleans
Finishing - 6A
> problem. When the canopy is tilted up the aluminum skin on the
> canopy frame
> top interferes with the top forward skin of the fuselage causing it
> to "pop"
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcbraem(at)home.com.with.ESMTP (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) |
| Subject: | Re: wingtip extensions (and anxious to fly) |
"Japundza, Bob" wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
>
> I am planning on doing the wintip lights tomorrow night and am wondering if the
wingtip extensions are necessary for night VFR/IFR certification. I have the
extensions but honestly, I'm soon ready for inspection and 2-3 nights of fiddling
with fiberglass is not my idea of fun. I don't care that much about aesthetics
in regard to the lights, but since I'm using the strobe/position/aft
facing whelens...is it likely that the inspector could limit me to day VFR because
of the prescribed visibility requirements? Anyone have an inspector flag
you for this?
>
> Bob Japundza
>
>
Bob--As long as you meet the visibility degree requirements, your wing
tip lights are OK. Do you have the Aircraft Spruce Catalogue?--it shows
the proper placement of the three major lighting schemes (as does the
FAR/AIM book). As long as your wingtip strobes/position light can be
seen from someone at the tail of your plane, you should be fine & dandy.
If you don't have the wingtips on and the Inspector questions your
lighting position/angles--take the day VFR limit and re-apply when the
wingtips are on. The position of the lights is pretty much a
no-brainer, if you follow the published diagrams.
Boyd.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question on gyros... |
Bill Ludwig wrote:
>
> 1) I'm thinking about running only electric gyros - do you think it would
> affect resale value considering that an electrical system failure would
> leave you gyroless? This will be a night VFR plane.
If you follow Bob Nuckolls advice about the main and essential bus, you should
not be gyroless because of "one" electic failure source. If you ontinue flying
with "one" source, you better have a plan "B".
>
> 2) Caging during aerobatics - is it necessary? How about an electric gyro
> that is turned off? Will it still damage the gyro? Will it flop around
> even if it is not powered up?
I am installing switches on gyros, but it is to conseve power in the event of
"one" electic failure. I don't know about the flop around without power.
Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A, wiring the panel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Paint Scheme |
Hi gang,
There is a good chance that I will purchase a brand new RV-4 to replace my
wonderful N8ZZ, which was destroyed on X-mas day last year. The builder,
Pete Fountain, has put together a lovely, well thought out piece of
machinery. It has been test flown and is ready for the final paint trim. It
is currently painted a solid bright, pure yellow. Do any of you have ideas
for a final design. Pete is a real good painter, and is willing to try
anything. Thanks in advance.
Louis
Louis I. Willig
larywil(at)home.com
RV-4, N8ZW in my near future
(610) 668-4964
Philadelphia, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question on gyros... |
Bill L. wrote:
> 1) I'm thinking about running only electric gyros - do you think it would
> affect resale value considering that an electrical system failure would
> leave you gyroless? This will be a night VFR plane.
Just my opinion, Bill, but I don't think you ought to install gyros if you
aren't trained to use them as I assume you aren't since the bird will be a
VFR one.
Maybe it wouldn't make sense for you but many RV flyers would do well to
make their little gems IFR, which will increase their value, and get the
rating. It is a struggle to stay current and I personally worry that I am
not very sharp with such low IFR experience and this hot dry California WX.
The IFR rating does make you a better VFR pilot as far as flying like an
airliner goes anyway.
The airplanes resale value will not increase if you try to sell it in a
month or two and take a real low-ball price. All electric is okay if done
right - better than having a system that sucks -- IMHO.
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pickup Checking |
Ok Rob
We are all wondering......how much was left.
I can attest that in my 4 not much fuel is left in the tank when you get
that scary silent sound. That tank took almost the listed capacity when I
filled it...about half a litre short I think.
Joe Hine
RV4 C-FYTQ
>
> I would encourage everyone to test what the unusable fuel is in the system
as
> well as test the actual fuel capacity.
>
> On my RV-4 I drained the tanks using the boost pump and then drained the
> remaining fuel out of the fuel sump fitting just to see what was left.
>
> -Rob Hickman
> RV-4 N401RH ~45 Hours
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder/Brake Issue |
> As I recall made the bracket arm extention about 3/4" longer. It is a
> lot of extra work, but I have no problem in my -6 with the brakes on
> takeoff or landing.
I seem to recall that switching the rudder pedal weldments fore/aft (if the
left rudder pedal is forward per the plans, for example, I put it behind
the right one) made it so that at least one of the original side brackets
was long enough, making it only necessary to build one longer per side.
Alex Peterson 6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - $7.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tilt up canopy problem |
I already have a
>1/16'' gap between the canopy skin and the top fuselage skin is this not
>enough?
>Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
>Thanks,
>Eli Lewis
>Venice, FL
>RV-6
>
I am assuming you do not have the front skin riveted in place as yet.
Mine would catch until I riveted it in place. The gap is about 1/16".
Have good one!
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wingtip extensions (and anxious to fly) |
"InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116" wrote:
>
>
> "Japundza, Bob" wrote:
> >
> >
> > Listers,
> >
> > I am planning on doing the wintip lights tomorrow night and am wondering if
the wingtip extensions are necessary for night VFR/IFR certification. I have
the extensions but honestly, I'm soon ready for inspection and 2-3 nights of
fiddling with fiberglass is not my idea of fun. I don't care that much about
aesthetics in regard to the lights, but since I'm using the strobe/position/aft
facing whelens...is it likely that the inspector could limit me to day VFR because
of the prescribed visibility requirements? Anyone have an inspector flag
you for this?
> >
> > Bob Japundza
> >
> >
> Bob--As long as you meet the visibility degree requirements, your wing
> tip lights are OK. Do you have the Aircraft Spruce Catalogue?--it shows
> the proper placement of the three major lighting schemes (as does the
> FAR/AIM book). As long as your wingtip strobes/position light can be
> seen from someone at the tail of your plane, you should be fine & dandy.
> If you don't have the wingtips on and the Inspector questions your
> lighting position/angles--take the day VFR limit and re-apply when the
> wingtips are on. The position of the lights is pretty much a
> no-brainer, if you follow the published diagrams.
>
> Boyd.
The reply to the original post could be confusing to many builders since
it didn't address the question. The reason for the extensions is to
extend the lights out far enough so they will be visible to an aircraft
above you. If the lights are simply mounted to the tips, the curvature
of the wingtips will shield the lights from someone flying above you.
Now, whether or not a DAR will flag you, I don't know. However, you will
have to determine for yourself whether or not you are comfortable with
the less than optimum lighting coverage.
And, I don't blame you for being anxious to fly! :-)
Sam Buchanan
"The RV Journal" http://hoem.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Looking for accomodations at OSH |
Myself and another pilot friend are looking for hotel/motel accomodations
starting Thursday July 27th thru Saturday nite July 29th for Oshkosh.
Please respond off list if you can assist.
-Don
RV8 NJ
rv8don(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Looking for accomodations at OSH |
In a message dated 6/14/2000 9:03:02 PM Central Daylight Time, Rv8don(at)AOL.COM
writes:
<< Myself and another pilot friend are looking for hotel/motel accomodations
starting Thursday July 27th thru Saturday nite July 29th for Oshkosh.
Please respond off list if you can assist. >>
A freind of mine is looking to rent out part of there house for 2 people, but
they are looking for the full week.
chris wilcox
f1 rocket 000
oshkosh, wi
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Confusion - Electric Gyros |
>
>Listers,
>
>I just recieved a couple of four pin connectors today from ACS - part #
>MS3116e8-4S. They came in a plain plastic bag with no instructions as how to
>install them. I figured out how they assemble together but have two
>questions concerning them.
>
>1. Are the wires supposed to be soldered to the cupped pins? - they are
>way to small for a crimp.
The 31xx series connectors are solder
>2. Which pins are which? On the back of my RC Allen gyro they call out Pin
>A - GND Motor, Pin B - +14 VDC Motor, Pin C- GND Light, Pin D - +14VDC
>Light. I have no trouble knowing how to wire in the gyro BUT the position
>of the pin labels leaves me confused. This is a rough drawing of what I
>mean -
> D
> o o ------pins (4)
> B 1A C
> o o
>
>Can any one tell me what the pin labels are supposed to be? The way the
>labeling is I can see two choices for B,D, & C and four choiced for A.
Looking into the FEMALE pins connector with the widest keyway
tab pointed UP, the "A" pin is in the upper right corner, "B" is
lower right, "C" is lower left and "D" is upper left.
Looking into the MALE pins connector the image is reversed
with "A" starting in upper left corner.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
Doug
Thanks for the tip. Have you done any tests for fire resistance with this
material? Does it create a lot of smoke when burned?
Charlie Kuss
RV-8 fuel tanks almost done with the ProSeal
Boca Raton, Fl.
> Fellow Listers:
>
> Just thought I'd mention the use of a product that is great for side
> upholstery panels in RVs (or any aircraft for that matter). I have mounted
> my side upholstery fabric (from DJ) on 4mm thick polyboard that goes by the
> trade name of Coroplast. It is used in the sign making industry and it's
> construction is just like corrugated cardboard except it is made from
> polypropylene plastic.
>
> It is lightweight and be cut with scissors or an Exacto knife. I attached
> the sidewall fabric to it with spray adhesive and it is held in place on the
> fuselage cabin wall with double face carpet tape. Artex Products carries it
> (the upholstery people that advertise in T-A-P or this supply house carries
> it ( http://www.southlandsignsupplies.com/catalog/ca20.htm). About $10 for
> a 4' x 8' piece.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [rv8list] New Vans Service Letter - addendum |
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Steffensen <steffco1(at)home.com>
<randy@rv-8.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: [rv8list] New Vans Service Letter - addendum
>
>
>I also thought you might be able to determine if the fuel pick-up tube is
in
>the proper position by inserting a small wire into the tank drain, (take
the
>drain out first) & feel if the tube is in the correct position. My wings
are
>on, tanks sealed etc. & I don't want to take the tank covers off.
>Mark Steffensen
>8A Dallas, TX
When installing the pickup tubes, the following will make for a safer
installation -- at least on a 6/6A:
The tubes should be routed so that the finger screen ends lie against the
bottom of the tank with ends centered over the drain holes. Then at each
condition inspection or more frequently as desired, the drains can be
removed when the tanks are low. You then peer into the drain hole and
ensure that 1) the pickup tubes are in their lowest position, and 2) the
finger screens are not clogged.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wingtip extensions (and anxious to fly) |
-----Original Message-----
From: Japundza, Bob <bjapundza(at)dowagro.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 7:27 PM
Subject: RV-List: wingtip extensions (and anxious to fly)
>
>Listers,
>
>I am planning on doing the wintip lights tomorrow night and am wondering if
the wingtip extensions are necessary for night VFR/IFR certification. I
have the extensions but honestly, I'm soon ready for inspection and 2-3
nights of fiddling with fiberglass is not my idea of fun. I don't care that
much about aesthetics in regard to the lights, but since I'm using the
strobe/position/aft facing whelens...is it likely that the inspector could
limit me to day VFR because of the prescribed visibility requirements?
Anyone have an inspector flag you for this?
>
>Bob Japundza
>
The inspector will probably miss it. Traffic will also miss seeing the
strobes as they really have a greatly reduced solid angle of visibility if
mounted directly to the wingtips.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse Jig RV-6 Available |
-----Original Message-----
From: David Wentzell <wntzl(at)execpc.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Fuse Jig RV-6 Available
>
>
>Builders,
>In a couple of weeks I will have an RV-6 Fuse Jig available. I am #4 on
this jig. It
>has been pased on for $100 (covers the cost of the levelers at the 6
supports I'm told)
>. It was built somewhere in the Carolinas I believe - very true, very
straight, and
>very nicely built. It will break down into 3 sections for easy transport.
> Call, Fax, or e-mail if interested.
> David Wentzell , Racine, Wisconsin
> 262-632-8440 Days; 681-3451 Eves; Fax: 632-8443 Work, 639-9181 Home
>
Hey, that's my old jig! It was built by a cabinet maker in Martinsburg,
WV., as a matter of fact! I added the precision leveling feet and got the
thing level at the six leveling stations to 0.020" with a transit. Great
jig!
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit -- done with jigs for ever, I hope!
Hampshire, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wingtip extensions (and anxious to fly) |
Bob,
The answer you want can be found in FAR 21.1387 thru 21.1401. That is the
standard that all Inspectors will/should use to determine the lights
position. More to your point is that the position lights must be visible
from both the top and bottom as well as straight ahead of the aircraft to
110 degress left or right from the nose. the tai llight must be visible both
up and down as well s 70 degrees left and right of the tail. And the
Anti-collison light/strobe must "illuminate the vital areas around the
plane."
Taking all that mumbo jumbo into a compact ball of info, it means that you
should plan on installing the wingtip extensions.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
95% done and forever to get the rest done
>From: "Japundza, Bob" <bjapundza(at)dowagro.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'rv-list(at)matronics.com'"
>Subject: RV-List: wingtip extensions (and anxious to fly)
>Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 17:33:53 -0400
>
>
>Listers,
>
>I am planning on doing the wintip lights tomorrow night and am wondering if
>the wingtip extensions are necessary for night VFR/IFR certification. I
>have the extensions but honestly, I'm soon ready for inspection and 2-3
>nights of fiddling with fiberglass is not my idea of fun. I don't care
>that much about aesthetics in regard to the lights, but since I'm using the
>strobe/position/aft facing whelens...is it likely that the inspector could
>limit me to day VFR because of the prescribed visibility requirements?
>Anyone have an inspector flag you for this?
>
>Bob Japundza
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV8DRIVER(at)AOL.COM |
Doug, just curious if you have tried a flammability test on this material. I
have an acquaintance who was going to use a foil-backed insulation board in
his 6 until we tried a flame test on it. The fire it supported was impressive
to say the least, and of course he did not use the material. Andy Johnson
Fellow Listers:
Just thought I'd mention the use of a product that is great for side
upholstery panels in RVs (or any aircraft for that matter). I have mounted
my side upholstery fabric (from DJ) on 4mm thick polyboard that goes by the
trade name of Coroplast.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip=up rollbar color |
> My roll bar takes a lot of punishment from the canopy handle resting on
> it to hold the canopy open for ventilation during taxi...don't think
> powder coating would withstand the punishment much better than my spray
> can paint...
>
> Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas
> -6A flying through 210 hours
Will, I cut some UHMW tape carefully onto the small surface of the canopy
handle. Metal doesn't touch metal anymore. Not flying yet but playing with
this in the shop...........Norman........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Derrick L. Aubuchon" <n184da(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pickup Checking |
I tested my RV-4 before the first flight, in level flight attitude,,
and I think I am overestimating when I say I had 1/2 cup remaining.
>
>RobHickman(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> >
> > I would encourage everyone to test what the unusable fuel is in
>the system as
> > well as test the actual fuel capacity.
> >
>
>I ran mine dry to check them flying and both took 15.6 to fill in my -4.
>John Kitz
>N721JK
>Ohio
Derrick L. Aubuchon
RV-4 N184DA
n184da(at)pacbell.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: West System Epoxy - Cotton Fiber |
> > Cotton Fiber is mixed with the epoxy to make structural fillets or fill
> > gaps where strength is needed. It works very much like chopped glass
> > fibers without the problems fibers cause in handling. (getting into
> > skin, etc.) Much safer.
> >
> > I cannot imagine anyplace you would use it on an aluminum airplane.
> > When hard it is extremely difficult to sand. Right up their with high
> > density filler.
I used milled glass to build up edges of the cowl slightly (less than 1/16")
where I sanded the gap too big. Feel comfortable that the filler for this
small amount makes for a good bond. Microballons wouldn't cut it there.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~100 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dgmurray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Confusion - Electric Gyros |
Thanks to all the replies. Your help is greatly appreciated. Now off I go to
begin soldering. Wiring sure is fun. I just love seing each new item come
'alive'.
Thanks again,-----------------------------------------------------
Doug Murray RV-6 C-GRPA
Southern Alberta
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wiring Confusion - Electric Gyros
>
> >
> >Listers,
> >
> >I just recieved a couple of four pin connectors today from ACS - part #
> >MS3116e8-4S. They came in a plain plastic bag with no instructions as how
to
> >install them. I figured out how they assemble together but have two
> >questions concerning them.
> >
> >1. Are the wires supposed to be soldered to the cupped pins? - they are
> >way to small for a crimp.
>
> The 31xx series connectors are solder
>
> >2. Which pins are which? On the back of my RC Allen gyro they call out
Pin
> >A - GND Motor, Pin B - +14 VDC Motor, Pin C- GND Light, Pin D - +14VDC
> >Light. I have no trouble knowing how to wire in the gyro BUT the
position
> >of the pin labels leaves me confused. This is a rough drawing of what I
> >mean -
>
>
> > D
> > o o ------pins (4)
> > B 1A C
> > o o
> >
> >Can any one tell me what the pin labels are supposed to be? The way the
> >labeling is I can see two choices for B,D, & C and four choiced for A.
>
> Looking into the FEMALE pins connector with the widest keyway
> tab pointed UP, the "A" pin is in the upper right corner, "B" is
> lower right, "C" is lower left and "D" is upper left.
>
> Looking into the MALE pins connector the image is reversed
> with "A" starting in upper left corner.
>
>
> Bob . . .
> --------------------------------------------
> ( Knowing about a thing is different than )
> ( understanding it. One can know a lot )
> ( and still understand nothing. )
> ( C.F. Kettering )
> --------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jaugilas <jaugilas(at)allways.net> |
Might I add that polypropylene is highly flammable normally.
Bill Jaugilas
Doug Weiler wrote:
>
> Fellow Listers:
>
> Just thought I'd mention the use of a product that is great for side
> upholstery panels in RVs (or any aircraft for that matter). I have mounted
> my side upholstery fabric (from DJ) on 4mm thick polyboard that goes by the
> trade name of Coroplast. It is used in the sign making industry and it's
> construction is just like corrugated cardboard except it is made from
> polypropylene plastic.
>
> It is lightweight and be cut with scissors or an Exacto knife. I attached
> the sidewall fabric to it with spray adhesive and it is held in place on the
> fuselage cabin wall with double face carpet tape. Artex Products carries it
> (the upholstery people that advertise in T-A-P or this supply house carries
> it ( http://www.southlandsignsupplies.com/catalog/ca20.htm). About $10 for
> a 4' x 8' piece.
>
> Doug
>
> ===========
>
> Doug Weiler
> Hudson, WI
> 715-386-1239
> dougweil(at)pressenter.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Pictures of My RV-6 |
Hi Mike and others,
Thanks to all for the compliments on my airplane. I appreciate it very much.
Mike asked about the things on the roll bar in the picture. Those are hand hold
grips. They are tucked up as close to the slider frame as possible, to avoid
any possible head strikes in case of sudden stoppage. I'd highly recommend
installing them. It provides a very natural place to grab when getting in and
out, particularly on a tail wheel airplane. They are make from 1/4" dia steel
tubing (about .050 wall). I stole the idea for someone in the RVator.
As far as the panel, I haven't yet done the detail work for a tip up canopy. I'll
do that after Arlington. I think it'll have to mount just a little lower that
the slider version, but not by much. I'll have to work out the supports that
attach it to the subpanel as well. I'm looking for someone here in the SoCal
area who is at that stage in the fuse construction so I could trial fit one.
(any volunteers?)
The throttle and mixture can be mounted in the stock vertical console or in a angle
mount below the panel like most people do. That would open up more room
for switchs where I put my throttle. I gotta say, I love the throttle over there,
and flying with my right hand.
Laird RV-6 (did my series of spins,loops and rolls last night, I'm still dizzy)
SoCal (19.8 hrs)
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Wed, Jun 14, 2000 4:58 PM
Plane looks there Laird! You've picqued my interest though. What are the
two horizontal things on the roll bar?
Also, will your panel fit a tip up or does it make no difference. Do you
have an alternate design that allows the throttle, mixture, prop to be
placed in the center?
Mike Nellis
RV-6 Wings - Plainfield, IL
http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
> > Doug, just curious if you have tried a flammability test on this
material.
> I
> > have an acquaintance who was going to use a foil-backed insulation board
> in
> > his 6 until we tried a flame test on it. The fire it supported was
> impressive
> > to say the least, and of course he did not use the material. Andy
Johnson
Gee, folks, maybe this wasn't such a great idea after all. This material
does burn although the fabric that I am attaching it to does not. It is
interesting in that Artex Products uses this material as mounting panels
for their upholstery kits for certified aircraft. Hmmm???
Anyway I guess to be 100% safe, one might consider treating this material
with a fire blocker. ACS sell one on page 284 of their catalog.
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com> |
I didn't find exactly what I was looking for in the archives.
I've been told by a few IAC email list people that they have been to
contests where RV6s have competed (as well as 4s) and done well. Though no
one has offered up a name yet. Ok, fess up. Whose doing Sportsman and
Intermediate in a RV6? :-) I want to talk to them!
I'd like help separating fact from 2nd hand or worse info.
The archives are full of advise not to spin a RV. Now does anyone have
Pitts time and RV time and spun both? If so, care to comment on how the RV
does in comparison? Do different RV design spin significantly differently?
A big name on the IAC and airshow circuit recently told me that it would be
tantamount to stupid to compete with an RV6 and they are looked down upon
overall by the IAC community because they are not the greatest (read safe)
in spins and pick up speed very quickly (they did say they thought they were
a great plane for tooling around in and going somewhere fast). Not that
they confesses to every flying a RV themselves...
The fact that people are doing it means it can be done. No one has crashed
yet despite multiple competitive flights. Meaning it can be done repeatedly
safely. Some RVs even win regional meets. They can be competitive at the
lower levels. All levels have spins as a required maneuver. So what gives?
lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob DiMeo - Oracle <dimeob(at)powertel.com.au> |
Guys,
I think you really needs to think about issues of flammability and toxic
gases with respect to interior fabrics, cushions and mountings.
I've done a couple of interiors now for my own airplanes and I believe
the only way to protect yourself as much as possible is to use mounting
systems and fabrics that have gone through the same approval process as
those used in certified aircraft.
I had to do this with a glare shield that was not approved for my
Comanche. It cost me $100 for the test but that was the only way our FSDO
was going to let me put the thing in after I'd purchased it. It proved that
the shield would put itself out when a flame was removed and it emitted no
toxic fumes. After the 'ouch' for the bill, I admit I did feel better about
the safety of the installation.
The best backing for fabric in my opinion is aluminum. It's the backing
use by Piper for the interiors I've done. The best fabric is FAA approved,
wherever you get it from. If I remember right, the FAA even approves the
glue that holds the Fabric to the aluminum. As for the cushions, I can't say
as I've used the ones that were in the plane already.
Bob
Rv8 #423
> ----------
> From: jaugilas
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 06:42 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Coroplast
>
>
> Might I add that polypropylene is highly flammable normally.
>
> Bill Jaugilas
>
>
> Doug Weiler wrote:
>
> >
> > Fellow Listers:
> >
> > Just thought I'd mention the use of a product that is great for side
> > upholstery panels in RVs (or any aircraft for that matter). I have
> mounted
> > my side upholstery fabric (from DJ) on 4mm thick polyboard that goes by
> the
> > trade name of Coroplast. It is used in the sign making industry and
> it's
> > construction is just like corrugated cardboard except it is made from
> > polypropylene plastic.
> >
> > It is lightweight and be cut with scissors or an Exacto knife. I
> attached
> > the sidewall fabric to it with spray adhesive and it is held in place on
> the
> > fuselage cabin wall with double face carpet tape. Artex Products
> carries it
> > (the upholstery people that advertise in T-A-P or this supply house
> carries
> > it ( http://www.southlandsignsupplies.com/catalog/ca20.htm). About $10
> for
> > a 4' x 8' piece.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > ===========
> >
> > Doug Weiler
> > Hudson, WI
> > 715-386-1239
> > dougweil(at)pressenter.com
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillyRV6(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Wing wiring?Front or back of spare? |
I was wondering if anyone has had any problems with the 5/8 conduit run in
front of the main spare. Running the conduit under the tank and between the
leading edge ribs doesn't seem like a problem. A little offset in the conduit
between the tank and rib 71.5 but not enough to make pulling the wires throw
Difficult.
My problem lies with when the conduit enters the fuselage, what problem might
I encounter with the conduit in front of the spare.
My other? Is. Is it that had to get the wiring throw or over the main spare
with the conduit behind the rear spare.
Thanks Bill H.
Pembroke Ma.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
SADNESS
http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/daily/20000615/LocalNews/15319.shtml
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | where everyone at |
test message is anyone out there today?
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Richardson Jr." <sales(at)powersportaviation.com> |
| Subject: | 215 hp Powersport RV6A update |
Dear RV'ers
We at Powersport want you to know we have completed our
propeller testing, including a 200 hp Hartzel constant speed, on our
215 Hp rotary engine and have posted the results on our web site.
The new MT 3 blade has not arrived yet.
Wisconsin governor Tommy Thompson toured Powersport on May 26
and enjoyed seeing our refinements to our engines and panel displays.
He also came to see Ratech's machine shop featuring one of the largest
CNC milling machines in the midwest.
Powersport will be having a open house and hosting EAA chapter 1229
on Monday June 19 at 7:00 PM and all interested are invited to attend.
We will be demonstrating engine running displays on our test stand and
showing our almost completed RV6A.
We are located at Osceola Wisconsin, east end of the airport OEO.
Check out our web site at www.powersportaviation.com
and click through the April, May and June updates.
We hope to see some of you there.
Ray Richardson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
>
> Doug, just curious if you have tried a flammability test on this material.
I
> have an acquaintance who was going to use a foil-backed insulation board
in
> his 6 until we tried a flame test on it. The fire it supported was
impressive
> to say the least, and of course he did not use the material. Andy Johnson
Gee, folks, maybe this wasn't such a great idea after all. This material
does burn although the fabric that I am attaching it to does not. It is
interesting in that Artex Products uses this material as mounting panels for
their upholstery kits for certified aircraft. Hmmm???
Anyway I guess to be 100% safe, one might consider treating this material
with a fire blocker. ACS sell one on page 284 of their catalog.
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Wing wiring?Front or back of spare? |
In a message dated 6/15/00 7:46:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BillyRV6(at)AOL.COM
writes:
<< I was wondering if anyone has had any problems with the 5/8 conduit run in
front of the main spare. Running the conduit under the tank and between the
leading edge ribs doesn't seem like a problem. >>
Once upon a time in RV-list history, there was a bit of a holy war over the
issue of running wiring in front of, or behind the spar. I let myself be
convinced that you don't want wiring right up against the fuel tank,
therefore you should run the wires behind the spar. If I had it to do over
again, I would definately do it the other way, and run the wires between the
tank and spar. This would make wiring runs much easier.
Kyle Boatright
RV-6.
Fired up the electrical system for the first time today.
No smoke, only 1 item inop...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Airtex may use a similar product. Many times the plastic formulation can be
changed for fire proofing. I doubt it can be done to the plastic after the
fact.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Coroplast
>
> >
> > Doug, just curious if you have tried a flammability test on this
material.
> I
> > have an acquaintance who was going to use a foil-backed insulation board
> in
> > his 6 until we tried a flame test on it. The fire it supported was
> impressive
> > to say the least, and of course he did not use the material. Andy
Johnson
>
> Gee, folks, maybe this wasn't such a great idea after all. This material
> does burn although the fabric that I am attaching it to does not. It is
> interesting in that Artex Products uses this material as mounting panels
for
> their upholstery kits for certified aircraft. Hmmm???
>
> Anyway I guess to be 100% safe, one might consider treating this material
> with a fire blocker. ACS sell one on page 284 of their catalog.
>
> Doug
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: [rv8list] New Vans Service Letter - addendum |
> The tubes should be routed so that the finger screen ends lie against the
> bottom of the tank with ends centered over the drain holes.
This sounds like a sure-fire way to assure that the pickup tube will be low
enpough in the tank to suck up any water or debris that didn't _quite_ make
it out the sump drain on pre-flight. Am I missing something? I purposely
left my pickup just a bit higher so as to leave any retained water behind in
the low spot.
Thoughts?
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Spinning an RV-6 |
>
>Hi Boyd and other,
>
>Let me start out by saying I'm not an expert in spins. I'll relay
>what I did and what I observed. This is just my opinion, and my
>observation my be different then someone else in the same seat.
>With that said....
>
>I've been flying a Citabria and a Decathlon the last 2 year getting
>ready for flying my RV-6, but I only got in about 25 hrs total in
>the 2 year, just barely enough to stay current. I made a point to
>go out and spin the airplane every time I went out. I also got some
>acro training in the months before I went up to fly with Mike
>Seager. On the second day of flying with Mike, I had him demo
>spins, just so I could see what everybody was afraid of. We let the
>nose come down thru the horizon before we applied rudder. We didn't
>let them develop more that one turn, so it really never had a chance
>to get a chance to see the full spin rate.
>
>Last night I took out my RV to do the acro series in it so I can
>make the log entries as to what I can do later (without having to
>put it back into the test phase). I donned my parachute (which is
>uncomfortable as sitting on a rock) and started with stalls, power
>on, and power off, and then did 1/2 spin each way, then 1 turn, and
>then 2 turns each way. I was at arco weight of 1375, and all were
>power off, ailerons neutral. They seemed a little fast, but nothing
>unnerving (again, my opinion). Recovery was always within a 1/2
>turn, and I only bounced my head off the canopy once while applying
>a little down elevator. I didn't feel anything dangerous was about
>to happen. About the only thing that caught my attention was a big
>shudder of the airplane as it was just starting to rotate.
>
>Satisfied that it didn't have any real nasty habits at that weight,
>I proceeded on to left and right rolls, giggling every time. Then
>on to loops, boy those are fun....Ok now a loop, and a roll on the
>pullout, WHOPPEEEE!!!!! 2 of those then I realized that I was
>getting a funny taste in my mouth.....OK, let's fly straight and
>level for a while. I'll have to work on that G tolerance :-)
>
>So...I didn't find anything strange about spinning the RV, but I
>only scratched the surface of the envelope there. That's about all
>I can relate right now.
>
>Happy revolutions,
>
Laird,
Just for curiosity, where do you figure your CG was when you were
doing the spins? Spin characteristics, and spin recovery can be
significantly affected by CG, with aft CG being the worst case.
Our aircraft are hand built, and spin characteristics will be greatly
affected by the differences between the right and left wing, so other
aircraft may have different spin characteristics than yours.
Thanks for posting your results. I quoted your whole message so that
it will get in the archive.
Congratulations on getting flying. Keep us posted on your flight test results.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM |
> Airtex may use a similar product. Many times the plastic formulation can be
> changed for fire proofing. I doubt it can be done to the plastic after the
> fact.
>
The corrugated plastic I plan to use actually came from Airtex, along with
the upholstery cloth. Been flying two years now and I _might_ get around to
installing the interior this summer!
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harvey Sigmon" <flyhars(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing wiring?Front or back of spare? |
Kyle: I am one of those guys from RV history who ran the wires behind the
tank next to the spar. My QB 6A did not have the holes for the conduit to
go behind the spar, so I ran just like I did in my last RV6 through a
conduit attached to the spar just like you did the pitot tube. It works a
lot better and you have a more direct route to the instrument panel. This is
my idea only.
Harvey Sigmon - RV6AQB N602 engine stuff.
----- Original Message -----
From: <KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing wiring?Front or back of spare?
>
> In a message dated 6/15/00 7:46:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
BillyRV6(at)AOL.COM
> writes:
>
> << I was wondering if anyone has had any problems with the 5/8 conduit run
in
> front of the main spare. Running the conduit under the tank and between
the
> leading edge ribs doesn't seem like a problem. >>
>
> Once upon a time in RV-list history, there was a bit of a holy war over
the
> issue of running wiring in front of, or behind the spar. I let myself be
> convinced that you don't want wiring right up against the fuel tank,
> therefore you should run the wires behind the spar. If I had it to do
over
> again, I would definately do it the other way, and run the wires between
the
> tank and spar. This would make wiring runs much easier.
>
> Kyle Boatright
>
> RV-6.
> Fired up the electrical system for the first time today.
> No smoke, only 1 item inop...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Paint Scheme |
Louis
Glad to see you are getting another 4...I like the choice of Yellow the trim
will have to be what you like best. I have the accent stripes on the side
of mine with the rudder and fin to match. I have angles stripes on the
wings which IMHO look good as well.
Joe Hine
RV4 C-FYTQ
> Hi gang,
>
> There is a good chance that I will purchase a brand new RV-4 to replace my
> wonderful N8ZZ, which was destroyed on X-mas day last year. The builder,
> Pete Fountain, has put together a lovely, well thought out piece of
> machinery. It has been test flown and is ready for the final paint trim.
It
> is currently painted a solid bright, pure yellow. Do any of you have ideas
> for a final design. Pete is a real good painter, and is willing to try
> anything. Thanks in advance.
>
> Louis
>
>
> Louis I. Willig
> larywil(at)home.com
> RV-4, N8ZW in my near future
> (610) 668-4964
> Philadelphia, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank and Dorothy <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing wiring?Front or back of spare? |
BillyRV6(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
>
> I was wondering if anyone has had any problems with the 5/8 conduit run in
> front of the main spare. Running the conduit under the tank and between the
> leading edge ribs doesn't seem like a problem. A little offset in the conduit
> between the tank and rib 71.5 but not enough to make pulling the wires throw
> Difficult.
>
> My problem lies with when the conduit enters the fuselage, what problem might
> I encounter with the conduit in front of the spare.
I've put conduit in the LE ribs. It is a fairly tight turn for the
conduit (I used electrical PVC -- had to dip the end in boiling water to
get it bent) at the inboard end of the LE... If I was doing it again,
I'd think about putting the conduit diagonally through the LE, coming
out near the LE at the outboard end.
I don't think you need conduit between the tank and main spar... just
attach the wires to the spar with clips of some sort. That way, you'll
have plenty of flexibility when it comes to bringing the wires into the
fuselage. Caveat: I haven't actually put the wires in yet... still
figuring things out as I build the fuselage.
> My other? Is. Is it that had to get the wiring throw or over the main spare
> with the conduit behind the rear spare.
Over the spar would be hard to do tidily. Through the spar, you would
have to put the wires through near the centreline. And you would have to
route and attach the wires with extra care there... the control columns
and so on move in the area aft of the spar.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Spinning an RV-6 |
Kevin asked:
Laird,
Just for curiosity, where do you figure your CG was when you were
doing the spins?
--
The CG was 72.6 (range 68.7-76.8) at the time of the spin testing.
--
Congratulations on getting flying. Keep us posted on your flight test results.
--
Thanks Kevin, I appreciate it, and even though I'll be done with my 25 hours this
week, I still have a lot of data to collect. I need to get some more instrumation
on board and complete my intersection fairings before I can get any real
good data. But I figure I have years to learn this little airplane. It has
a lot to teach me.
Laird RV-6 (now I just have to figure out where to put that alpha/beta vane)
SoCal
--
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit stuff)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul & Gerti RV-4 F-1 Rocket 006" <gertivs(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV spins & acro |
> I've been told by a few IAC email list people that they have been to
> contests where RV6s have competed (as well as 4s) and done well. Though
no
> one has offered up a name yet. Ok, fess up. Whose doing Sportsman and
> Intermediate in a RV6? :-) I want to talk to them!
I once thought I would like to try and compete. Like you I thought I would
ask around first. At the semi-local IAC chapter in Delano, CA everyone told
me to contact Ralph Riddel as the RV-4 expert in competition. Both he and
his son have competed in the -4 and won. Ralph is also the primary acro
instructor at Sean Tucker's School of Aerobatics in Salinas, Calif. He is
good and knows his stuff. You can reach him through the school or his IAC
chapter.
I later took a lesson from Ralph in a IO-540 Pitts 2-B. The Pitts' handling
blew me away. That was the end of any real hope of competion. Me and my -4
are hot heavy and ready to go but could NOT be competitive against the Pitts
and someone who knows how to make her dance.
Paul Vander Schuur
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Flame Block Spray |
> > Anyway I guess to be 100% safe, one might consider treating this
material
> > fire blocker. ACS sell one on page 284 of their catalog.
Every builder should have a look at this stuff. Aircraft Spruce catalog page
284. Thanks to Doug for pointing it out. It's comes in a spray bottle. Too
easy.
If you're looking for a foam to put on your side walls goto page 39 of the
same catalog and have a look at Temperfoam. You can see from it's price that
it is supposed to be special.
I'm still looking for a suitable glue to glue the fabric onto primered
aluminum. What have people been using?
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Wischmeyer <edwisch(at)aa.net> |
| Subject: | Gyros as safety equipment |
Somebody wrote:
> Just my opinion... but I don't think you ought to install gyros if you
> aren't trained to use them
Ouch!! Part of the private pilot curriculum for years has been to
demonstrate fundamental maneuvers by reference to instruments. This is
not to promote ad hoc IFR flying, but to give pilots an out in case they
get into a cloud inadvertently. I can tell you from experience, that
it's real easy to get into a cloud inadvertently. Those gyros are your
life preserver!!
Personally, I think that folks should give preference to installing an
attitude indicator over a turn coordinator, because the attitude
indicator is much easier to fly than the combination of turn coordinator
plus airspeed and altitude. (Turn and slip, with the vertical needle, is
harder yet to fly than a turn coordinator -- there's really no excuse
for putting one in.)
Should you install safety equipment in your RV? Hell, yes! Electric for
night VFR? Let's look at the risks -- Night VFR can turn into IFR very
quickly flying over clouds, into clouds inadvertently, or when over
sparse areas with few light. Are electric gyros okay for that? Sure. The
risk is that you lose your electrical system while in the clouds, or
when unable to find an airport, or when unable to maintain VFR to the
destination. It's not like you're planning to fly forever at night on
instruments. The risk is a bit higher than having gyros from two power
sources (electric and vacuum) but not extravagantly higher, IMHO.
Personally, I'd be content with an electric attitude indicator for night
flight. I would *not* install all electric gyros if I were installing
all three. Vacuum systems aren't that big a deal (my RV-4 has one), put
there's a popular mythology the the very expensive electric gyros are
somehow better than vacuum. From what my overhaul shop told me, you do
*not* want to turn your gyros off when doing aerobatics -- it's less
wearing on the bearings to let 'em spin.
Consider the risks and the mission, both for you and any possible
subsequent buyer, and good luck!!
Ed Wischmeyer
CFII/RV-4
--
NOTE: 5% of messages sent to me don't make it, so use a return receipt to
insure delivery. The phone company system drops packets.
- - - - - - - -
Ed Wischmeyer
Web page: http://members.aa.net/~edwisch
Email: edwisch(at)aa.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Strobe Light Power Supply Kit |
I'm looking in the new MCM Electronics printed catalog on page 115. Part #
80-735 is a Strobe Circuit Kit for $12.75 They show a picture of an empty
circuit board and a bunch of small parts, no enclosure. You have to solder
it together.
I'll quote from the catalog: "Can be used as emergency warning light on
autos, radio tower or anywhere a strobe light is needed. Variable flash
rate. Dimensions 3 1/2" X 1 3/4" Operates on 6/12 VDC."
Does any one know any thing about this? Could it be suitable for us?
More info or to order your own free catalog of tons of interesting stuff:
www.mcmelectronics.com
Regards,
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob DiMeo - Oracle <dimeob(at)powertel.com.au> |
| Subject: | Flame Block Spray |
Norm,
The planes I've done have had unprimed aluminum sheets for backing the
fabric on the side panels. My Comanche is 40 years old and the unprimed
aluminum looked good as new. I would gauge the thickness at maybe .016. I
never though to measure it, though. The fabric was glued to the sheet and
folded over the edges by about two inches and glued. The panels were either
clipped in or screwed into the bulkheads in the Cabin interior. Looks great,
lasts a long time.
The glue that I used was from 3M and it's a high tack glue, it came in a
black spray can. I can't get to the can as I'm 12,000 miles away right now
but I would bet that it would stick to anything, including primed aluminum.
Bob
RV8
#423
> ----------
> From: Norman Hunger
> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 01:54 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Flame Block Spray
>
>
>
> > > Anyway I guess to be 100% safe, one might consider treating this
> material
> > > fire blocker. ACS sell one on page 284 of their catalog.
>
> Every builder should have a look at this stuff. Aircraft Spruce catalog
> page
> 284. Thanks to Doug for pointing it out. It's comes in a spray bottle. Too
> easy.
>
> If you're looking for a foam to put on your side walls goto page 39 of the
> same catalog and have a look at Temperfoam. You can see from it's price
> that
> it is supposed to be special.
>
> I'm still looking for a suitable glue to glue the fabric onto primered
> aluminum. What have people been using?
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Skymap IIIC GPS - RS232 Interface to the Notepad... |
Hi Listers,
For those of you that have had the pleasure of flying with the King
(formally Skyforce) Skymap IIIC, you may or may not have noticed there is
a nifty "Notepad" feature that allows you to upload roughly 4400
ASCII characters to the IIIC and then page through them. This is handy
for something like an "online" check list or directions to the nearest
airport with a hamburger joint.
In any case, apparently there is a piece of software called Flight
Manager Version 3.00 the you can buy for $229 (gulp) that will allow you
to upload whatever text you may want to this special Notepad on the
IIIC. Realizing that uploading ASCII text to this baby is a pretty
trivial task and being a fair programmer, it hit me that I should spend
a few hours away from building my plane and come up with a piece of
software that might do the same.
So here's my question. Does anyone have the technical spec. on how to
communicate with the IIIC over the RS232 to manipulate the Notepad data
space? There doesn't appear to be a "special" I/O menu for enabling
this type of connectivity. I connected up a terminal to the IIIC and
banged on it with few typical things, but nothing seemed obvious.
Has anyone reverse engineered the Flight Manager code to see what it
sends and receives on the RS232 port? Has anyone even used this Flight
Manager software?
Surfing around on the Bendix/King website, I was really disappointed in
the documentation available on the IIIC there. Very pathetic, actually.
I couldn't locate any information on the Flight Manager software, nor
could I even find any data on available accessories for the IIIC. I did
note that I can order a IIIC online direct from Bendix/King and pay full
List price. What a deal. I wish they had bagged the online ordering
development and focused on something useful - like some documentation...
Sheeze. It appears that the old Skyforce website from the UK has been
completely decommissioned - at least *their* site used to have a bit of
useful information.
Anyway, thanks for any information you might have on the aforementioned
requirement.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
RV-4 Builder
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
(Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id
for" ;
Fri,
16 Jun 2000 07:46:58.-0400(at)matronics.com
"Doug Weiler" on 06/15/2000 06:41:14 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Coroplast
I guess their thoughts are, if the flames get to the side panels the point is
mute. You've long since asphyxiated or jumped out. The guy that does all the
wiring for Velocity in Vero Beach did a nice presentation at our EAA meeting. He
held up a small handfull (six one foot strands) of teflon coated wiring and said
if this burns, you will be completely incapacitated before the flame exposes the
wire. I would worry more about the wiring.
> > It is interesting in that Artex Products uses this material as mounting
panels for their upholstery kits for certified aircraft. Hmmm???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nancy and Walter Shipley" <wshipley(at)esper.com> |
| Subject: | Re: where everyone at |
Yeah, we're still here, Glenn. Say hi to the Orndorff's.
Walt Shipley
----------
> From: glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: where everyone at
> Date: Thursday, June 15, 2000 4:44 PM
>
>
> test message is anyone out there today?
>
> ====
> Glenn Williams
> 8A
> A&P
>
> Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
> http://photos.yahoo.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "CROWELL,JEFF (HP-Boise,ex1)" <jeff_crowell(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-List Digest: 42 Msgs - 06/15/00 |
Tom DeMarino wrote:
--------------------------------------------------
Hi Boyd and other,
Let me start out by saying I'm not an expert in spins. I'll relay what
I did and what I observed. This is just my opinion, and my observation
my be different then someone else in the same seat. With
that said....
snip
Last night I took out my RV to do the acro series in it so I can make the
log entries as to what I can do later (without having to put it back into
the test phase). I donned my parachute (which is uncomfortable as sitting
on a rock) and started with stalls, power on, and power off, and then did
1/2 spin each way, then 1 turn, and then 2 turns each way. I was at arco
weight of 1375, and all were power off, ailerons neutral. They seemed a
little fast, but nothing unnerving (again, my opinion). Recovery was always
within a 1/2 turn, and I only bounced my head off the canopy once while
applying a little down elevator. I didn't feel anything dangerous was about
to happen. About the only thing that caught my attention was a big shudder
of the airplane as it was just starting to rotate.
Just a comment from having read and researched Van's comments, and from a
background involving quite a few spins: the above described maneuvers are
***not*** spins-they are "incipient spins" or post-stall gyrations. Test
flight reports on the RV-6 clearly distinguish between the post-stall phase
and the developed spin phase. Recovery characteristics differ too! From
conversations with Ken at Van's, I'd approach spins with care and
trepidation-their test pilot, whose name escapes me, was ***very*** clear in
saying that spins were not a good idea in this airplane. Something to do
with the airflow characteristics over the fuselage of the RV-6.
This advice is worth what you paid for it.
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The VonDane's" <vondanes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Light Power Supply Kit |
I am interested in what this thing can do also... Anyone have any good or
bad information on this?
Here is more details:
http://www.i-mcm.com/Search/level_5.jhtml?PRODID=44338&SKUID=43582
Bill VonDane, Colorado
RV-8A, N912V, Wings
http://vondane.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Norman Hunger <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 11:58 PM
Subject: RV-List: Strobe Light Power Supply Kit
>
> I'm looking in the new MCM Electronics printed catalog on page 115. Part #
> 80-735 is a Strobe Circuit Kit for $12.75 They show a picture of an empty
> circuit board and a bunch of small parts, no enclosure. You have to solder
> it together.
>
> I'll quote from the catalog: "Can be used as emergency warning light on
> autos, radio tower or anywhere a strobe light is needed. Variable flash
> rate. Dimensions 3 1/2" X 1 3/4" Operates on 6/12 VDC."
>
> Does any one know any thing about this? Could it be suitable for us?
>
> More info or to order your own free catalog of tons of interesting stuff:
> www.mcmelectronics.com
>
>
> Regards,
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV spins & acro |
thanks for the info. i don't really care about being competitive to the
point of having to win. i just want to do it and do it to the best that I
can with what i have. that will be good enough.
what i am trying to gather from a person who knows first hand is whether or
not there is a significant difference in the way the 4, 6 and 8 fly WRT
aerobatics - especially in the spin department. If you limit yourself to
less than one turn spins, do they all behave the same, do they all pick up
speed or bleed off speed the same, etc, given the same set of circumstances.
lucky
>From: "Paul & Gerti RV-4 F-1 Rocket 006" <gertivs(at)netzero.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: RV spins & acro
>Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 21:48:28 -0700
>
>
>
> > I've been told by a few IAC email list people that they have been to
> > contests where RV6s have competed (as well as 4s) and done well. Though
>no
> > one has offered up a name yet. Ok, fess up. Whose doing Sportsman and
> > Intermediate in a RV6? :-) I want to talk to them!
>
>I once thought I would like to try and compete. Like you I thought I would
>ask around first. At the semi-local IAC chapter in Delano, CA everyone
>told
>me to contact Ralph Riddel as the RV-4 expert in competition. Both he and
>his son have competed in the -4 and won. Ralph is also the primary acro
>instructor at Sean Tucker's School of Aerobatics in Salinas, Calif. He is
>good and knows his stuff. You can reach him through the school or his IAC
>chapter.
>
>I later took a lesson from Ralph in a IO-540 Pitts 2-B. The Pitts'
>handling
>blew me away. That was the end of any real hope of competion. Me and my
>-4
>are hot heavy and ready to go but could NOT be competitive against the
>Pitts
>and someone who knows how to make her dance.
>
>Paul Vander Schuur
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV spins & acro |
Ah yes, being the underdog. I absolutely LOVE being told I'm competing in a
machine that is not as developed, or supported as my competitors. That way,
if I lose....that's OK, I'm not in a competitive machine.....but when I
WIN....I can just look them in the eye and smile...they know exactly what I
mean.
So, if I get a wild hair to compete in the RV-4 I'm building....that is
exactly what I'll do.....because it's more fun to be on THAT side of the
fence and not winning then it is to be on the spectator side and wishing you
could. If you and your RV are hot and heavy to do it....then DO IT. My God
man, who cares if you win or lose......they expect you to do poorly so any
good you do is twice the accomplishment. There is no down side.
Bill
-4
> I later took a lesson from Ralph in a IO-540 Pitts 2-B. The Pitts'
handling
> blew me away. That was the end of any real hope of competion. Me and
my -4
> are hot heavy and ready to go but could NOT be competitive against the
Pitts
> and someone who knows how to make her dance.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pickup Checking |
I'm a little confused on how one could get the fuel pickup turned and not
find out about it until you were in the air (unless it turned in the air).
Proper weight and balance procedures require you to place fuel in each tank
and then run the engine until it quits in order to establish unusable fuel
(which is a component of empty weight). In conjunction with this test I
would think that you'd also want to conduct flow test to ensure that your
fuel pump and fuel system are delivering adequate fuel flow to the
carburetor. And at the same time, you'd also want to calibrate your fuel
gauges, flush out your fuel system, and check your tanks for leaks.
When I did this I filled each tank and pumped it dry at least once.
(Actually, I had to do it three times, because I had a leak the first time
and then I spilled some fuel and screwed up my calibration calculation.) If
1.5 gallons or more of fuel disappeared, I'd start looking for where the
fuel is hiding. But even if I didn't catch on that more fuel than usual was
remaining, I would have known the quality of fuel remaining in the tank and
where that indicated on my gauges.
BTW for inquiring minds, I have 1/4 gallon of unusable fuel in each tank in
a level flight attitude, and each tank holds exactly 19 gallons (in a tail
down attitude).
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 (4 hours)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)avidyne.com> |
| Subject: | Skymap IIIC GPS - RS232 Interface to the Notepad... |
Matt, I have the Skymap IIIC PC Interface DLL (for Win95/88/NT4)&
documentation, I will send it to you. Sadly, there is no import lib or
header file, so you have to use the "old fashioned" way using LoadLibrary
and GetProcAddress. Let me know if you want me to send code snippets. Or
maybe I'll just finish my little applet that does what you want and send it
out...
Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit
Bedford, MA
-----Original Message-----
From: dralle(at)matronics.com [mailto:dralle(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 2:47 AM
Subject: RV-List: Skymap IIIC GPS - RS232 Interface to the Notepad...
Hi Listers,
For those of you that have had the pleasure of flying with the King
(formally Skyforce) Skymap IIIC, you may or may not have noticed there is
a nifty "Notepad" feature that allows you to upload roughly 4400
ASCII characters to the IIIC and then page through them. This is handy
for something like an "online" check list or directions to the nearest
airport with a hamburger joint.
In any case, apparently there is a piece of software called Flight
Manager Version 3.00 the you can buy for $229 (gulp) that will allow you
to upload whatever text you may want to this special Notepad on the
IIIC. Realizing that uploading ASCII text to this baby is a pretty
trivial task and being a fair programmer, it hit me that I should spend
a few hours away from building my plane and come up with a piece of
software that might do the same.
So here's my question. Does anyone have the technical spec. on how to
communicate with the IIIC over the RS232 to manipulate the Notepad data
space? There doesn't appear to be a "special" I/O menu for enabling
this type of connectivity. I connected up a terminal to the IIIC and
banged on it with few typical things, but nothing seemed obvious.
Has anyone reverse engineered the Flight Manager code to see what it
sends and receives on the RS232 port? Has anyone even used this Flight
Manager software?
Surfing around on the Bendix/King website, I was really disappointed in
the documentation available on the IIIC there. Very pathetic, actually.
I couldn't locate any information on the Flight Manager software, nor
could I even find any data on available accessories for the IIIC. I did
note that I can order a IIIC online direct from Bendix/King and pay full
List price. What a deal. I wish they had bagged the online ordering
development and focused on something useful - like some documentation...
Sheeze. It appears that the old Skyforce website from the UK has been
completely decommissioned - at least *their* site used to have a bit of
useful information.
Anyway, thanks for any information you might have on the aforementioned
requirement.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
RV-4 Builder
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flame Block Spray |
Bob DiMeo - Oracle wrote:
>
>
> Norm,
>
> The planes I've done have had unprimed aluminum sheets for backing the
> fabric on the side panels. My Comanche is 40 years old and the unprimed
> aluminum looked good as new. I would gauge the thickness at maybe .016. I
> never though to measure it, though. The fabric was glued to the sheet and
> folded over the edges by about two inches and glued. The panels were either
> clipped in or screwed into the bulkheads in the Cabin interior. Looks great,
> lasts a long time.
> The glue that I used was from 3M and it's a high tack glue, it came in a
> black spray can. I can't get to the can as I'm 12,000 miles away right now
> but I would bet that it would stick to anything, including primed aluminum.
The adhesive is Scotch 08090.
Glad to see Eric's post on this subject which lent some sanity to this
discussion. Likewise, I am not too concerned with fumes from burning
sidewalls since the toxic fumes emitted from my burning limbs will have
already incapacitated me....
And in case somebody wonders about an electrical fire setting the
interior walls ablaze, they need to read "The AeroElectric Connection".
Sam Buchanan (RV-6 with flammable pilot)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyros as safety equipment |
Ed Wischmeyer wrote:
>
>
> Somebody wrote:
>
> > Just my opinion... but I don't think you ought to install gyros if you
> > aren't trained to use them
>
> Ouch!! Part of the private pilot curriculum for years has been to
> demonstrate fundamental maneuvers by reference to instruments. This is
> not to promote ad hoc IFR flying, but to give pilots an out in case they
> get into a cloud inadvertently. I can tell you from experience, that
> it's real easy to get into a cloud inadvertently. Those gyros are your
> life preserver!!
>
> Personally, I think that folks should give preference to installing an
> attitude indicator over a turn coordinator, because the attitude
> indicator is much easier to fly than the combination of turn coordinator
> plus airspeed and altitude. (Turn and slip, with the vertical needle, is
> harder yet to fly than a turn coordinator -- there's really no excuse
> for putting one in.)
>
> Should you install safety equipment in your RV? Hell, yes! Electric for
> night VFR? Let's look at the risks -- Night VFR can turn into IFR very
> quickly flying over clouds, into clouds inadvertently, or when over
> sparse areas with few light. Are electric gyros okay for that? Sure. The
> risk is that you lose your electrical system while in the clouds, or
> when unable to find an airport, or when unable to maintain VFR to the
> destination. It's not like you're planning to fly forever at night on
> instruments. The risk is a bit higher than having gyros from two power
> sources (electric and vacuum) but not extravagantly higher, IMHO.
>
> Personally, I'd be content with an electric attitude indicator for night
> flight. I would *not* install all electric gyros if I were installing
> all three. Vacuum systems aren't that big a deal (my RV-4 has one), put
> there's a popular mythology the the very expensive electric gyros are
> somehow better than vacuum. From what my overhaul shop told me, you do
> *not* want to turn your gyros off when doing aerobatics -- it's less
> wearing on the bearings to let 'em spin.
>
> Consider the risks and the mission, both for you and any possible
> subsequent buyer, and good luck!!
At the risk of rehashing what has been hashed many, many times before, a
properly designed all-electric panel should be more reliable than the
conventional setup. For more info, please reference "The AeroElectric
Connection" for info about redundant electrical wiring architecture.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6 sans attitude indicator........but I don't fly in
clouds or at night)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian <briand(at)carolina.rr.com> |
I'm ready to start an RV. I visited Van's last weekend and took a test
flight which convinced me. I'm set on the 8 series, but can't decide
between the 8 and 8A. Any opinions/suggestions to resolve my dilemma.
Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
--- Brian wrote:
>
> I'm ready to start an RV. I visited Van's last weekend and took a
> test
> flight which convinced me. I'm set on the 8 series, but can't decide
> between the 8 and 8A. Any opinions/suggestions to resolve my
> dilemma.
LOL!!!!!!!
:) :) :)
Ha!
I'll start this puppy:
"A sport plane _must_ have a tailwheel!"
Next?
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com |
Boy did you open up a can of worms :-)
All kidding aside, I think you will find a long list of compelling reasons to
build both aircraft. From what I understand about both models, they fly pretty
much the same. The only real difference is in landing and taking off. What it
comes down to is what kind of plane do you like to fly. I have always been a
trike pilot. I would never be happy with a tail dragger. I find them easier to
land and like the extra visibility while taxing. But then I must face the fact
that they aren't nearly as cool as a tail dragger ;-) Life is about making
choices. I have made mine and I'm happy.
Good luck,
- Jim Andrews
RV-8AQ ( finish )
N89JA ( reserved )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
Hi Fred:
Hope you don't mind me posting this to the list but thought it might be of
interest to others as this subject has come up before.
I have no experience with automotive plugs in aircraft engines. I am not
against change but as I have posted before in the interests of safety am
really reluctant to change anything under the cowlings that does not have a
long term reliability record. An example is the recent oil cooler failure.
Without much knowledge on the subject I am assuming that the auto plug that
you mention will improve the flame front and give better all around
combustion. I believe that this same improvement can be accomplished by
using the Champion REM37BY. This plug places the spark deeper into the
cylinder creating a better flame front and also prevents the build up of
lead and carbon deposits in the plug itself. I believe this plug was
developed for engines that were being operated with full rich mixture most
of the time such as training aircraft causing excessive lead build up.
By using this plug you accomplish what you are looking for but still retain
standard aircraft grade harness. As to radio noise this has been taken care
of with the newer type of harness and should not be a problem.
Just my opinion.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
-----Original Message-----
From: Stucklen, Frederic IFC <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 9:50 AM
Subject: Spark Plugs
>Eustace,
>
> Do you have any experience using automotive spark plugs on a Lycolming
>O-320-D1A engine with Slick Mag's? Most aviation plugs are resistive (~1K
>ohm). 18mm auto plugs come in resistive (AC-86, Autolight C386, etc) or
>non-resistive. The resistive plugs are usually around 8000 - 10,000 ohms,
>and result in less radio noise, but a colder spark.
> What's your opinion on using these?
>
>Fred Stucklen
>N925RV RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pickup Checking |
--- "Randy J. Pflanzer" wrote:
>
>
> I'm a little confused on how one could get the fuel pickup turned and
> not
> find out about it until you were in the air (unless it turned in the
> air).
I think this could have happened after minimum fuel checks.
You put your bird together, do those checks, something requires
removing the wing. When the fuel line is disconnected for maybe the
umpteenth time the fitting inside also rotates. Perhaps when that
fitting is tightened again the fitting doesn't rotate back.
Wings on, wings off, wings on wings off... it happens.
(Where did I just hear that recently?)
:)
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pickup Checking |
Randy J. Pflanzer wrote:
> Proper weight and balance procedures require you to place fuel in each
tank
> and then run the engine until it quits
Oh, no! Is this procedure required by a FAR?
I want to run my new engine on the ground as little as possible so I was
planning on determining unusable by putting a measured gallon in each tank
then draining each by use of the aux pump out the gascolater drain. What
doesn't come back out is unusable, right?
I would be interested in a script for these pre-flight testing procedures.
Someone once said tie the tail down (if it isn't already!) and see that fuel
can be pumped to the carb in good quantity to simulate takeoff conditions.
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barstad, Are" <BarstadA(at)bis.adp.com> |
I have no experience with either, but from reading specs and from having had
to make the decision myself. Her are a few points you may want to consider:
1) The nose wheel version doesn't perform quite as well as the tail wheel
version. You have to take a slight drop in speed and range. Otherwise, they
should perform the same in the air.
2) Tail draggers typically have to be 'flown' until tie-down. Reading maps,
programming GPS etc. while taxiing is out of the question.
3) I personally think the tail dragger looks better.
4) As far as I know, you don't have to make up your mind for a long time
yet, unless you're planning on a Quick Build (I think).
5) What are your preferences? If the very few extra mph outweighs the lack
of visibility on ground - for _you_; then go with the tail dragger. If
you're not sure yet, get some time in another tail dragger and see for
yourself. Maybe you're ok with it in which case there wouldn't be any reason
to hang a nose wheel on the otherwise sleek fuselage.
Are
RV-6 (tail dragger)
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian [mailto:briand(at)carolina.rr.com]
Sent: June 16, 2000 10:22 AM
Subject: RV-List: 8 vs. 8A
I'm ready to start an RV. I visited Van's last weekend and took a test
flight which convinced me. I'm set on the 8 series, but can't decide
between the 8 and 8A. Any opinions/suggestions to resolve my dilemma.
Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barstad, Are" <BarstadA(at)bis.adp.com> |
I do have experience with both tail draggers and trikes but not in an
RV-8(A). I would be happy with either. Personal preference is the key!
Are
Are wrote:
I have no experience with either, but from reading specs and from having had
to make the decision myself. Her are a few points you may want to consider:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Jim Cone posted a great account of spinning his RV-6 several years ago. It
is available in the archives. Everyone should read it before test flying,
in my opinion.
Steve Soule
Huntington, VT
RV-6A baffles
-----Original Message-----
From: lucky macy [mailto:luckymacy(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 6:51 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV spins & acro
I didn't find exactly what I was looking for in the archives.
I've been told by a few IAC email list people that they have been to
contests where RV6s have competed (as well as 4s) and done well. Though no
one has offered up a name yet. Ok, fess up. Whose doing Sportsman and
Intermediate in a RV6? :-) I want to talk to them!
I'd like help separating fact from 2nd hand or worse info.
The archives are full of advise not to spin a RV. Now does anyone have
Pitts time and RV time and spun both? If so, care to comment on how the RV
does in comparison? Do different RV design spin significantly differently?
A big name on the IAC and airshow circuit recently told me that it would be
tantamount to stupid to compete with an RV6 and they are looked down upon
overall by the IAC community because they are not the greatest (read safe)
in spins and pick up speed very quickly (they did say they thought they were
a great plane for tooling around in and going somewhere fast). Not that
they confesses to every flying a RV themselves...
The fact that people are doing it means it can be done. No one has crashed
yet despite multiple competitive flights. Meaning it can be done repeatedly
safely. Some RVs even win regional meets. They can be competitive at the
lower levels. All levels have spins as a required maneuver. So what gives?
lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
--- "Barstad, Are" wrote:
>
> I have no experience with either, but from reading specs and from
> having had
> to make the decision myself. Her are a few points you may want to
> consider:
OK, OK, I'll be serious - for now.
All good points made thus far. One not made however is resale value.
_If_ you intend to sell this bird when you either replace it or tire of
it (??), you will get a better price and more interest in an 8A. I
think that has been shown over and over again in the -6 aircraft sold.
Nobody said life is fair.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV spins & acro..Ken Scott |
I talked to ken scott this morning about RV acro and spins in particular.
To summarise, he said that if you were blindfolded, you would not be able to
tell between any model (4, 6, 6A, 8, 8A) in the way they fly or spin. They
all stall the same as none have washout in the wing design and all stall all
at once without warning. They all seem to transition into fully developed
spins the same way. The only difference is the 6 models, once IN a fully
developed spin, take longer to recover once the spin recovery inputs are
made and they think it has to do with the different fuselage shape to
accomodate the side by side seating arrangement. They all get into (cockpit
look and feel) a spin the same way and look and feel the same once in a full
spin.
They all have relatively the same moments and surface areas, airfoils, etc
and there's just not any difference (perosnal rigging issues aside). He
suggested they all seem to recover immediately if you are limiting your
spins to no more than a couple of revolutions.
Im my *opinion* then, in IAC competition at the lower levels where you don't
do multi-rotation spins, the RV should be fine if you practice and get
training. And like I reported earlier, RVs of all types do reportedly do
well at regional IAC meets at the lower levels.
BUT, here's the other *perception* question. The 8's spars only protrude
into the fuselage about 8 inches as opposed to the 4 and 6 which have spars
which span the full with of the fuselage. I don't design airplanes and won't
pretend my comments mean diddly squat. It's probably GA standard for the
spars to only go through the fuse a bit like the 8's do but then most GA
aren't doing aerobatics.
For me, there's a psychological comfort in knowing the 4 and 6 wing spars
are longer and have more surface attachment area inside the fuse. I have
seen a couple of modern purpose built acro wings and they look liked the
spars carried all the way through the fuse too. Any thoughts?
I told ken I wish the hell Vans would make a RV4 quickbuild...
lucky
>From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'rv-list(at)matronics.com'"
>Subject: RE: RV-List: RV spins & acro
>Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 11:52:39 -0400
>
>
>Jim Cone posted a great account of spinning his RV-6 several years ago. It
>is available in the archives. Everyone should read it before test flying,
>in my opinion.
>
>Steve Soule
>Huntington, VT
>RV-6A baffles
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: lucky macy [mailto:luckymacy(at)hotmail.com]
>Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 6:51 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: RV spins & acro
>
>
>I didn't find exactly what I was looking for in the archives.
>
>I've been told by a few IAC email list people that they have been to
>contests where RV6s have competed (as well as 4s) and done well. Though no
>one has offered up a name yet. Ok, fess up. Whose doing Sportsman and
>Intermediate in a RV6? :-) I want to talk to them!
>
>I'd like help separating fact from 2nd hand or worse info.
>
>The archives are full of advise not to spin a RV. Now does anyone have
>Pitts time and RV time and spun both? If so, care to comment on how the RV
>does in comparison? Do different RV design spin significantly differently?
>
>
>A big name on the IAC and airshow circuit recently told me that it would be
>tantamount to stupid to compete with an RV6 and they are looked down upon
>overall by the IAC community because they are not the greatest (read safe)
>in spins and pick up speed very quickly (they did say they thought they
>were
>
>a great plane for tooling around in and going somewhere fast). Not that
>they confesses to every flying a RV themselves...
>
>The fact that people are doing it means it can be done. No one has crashed
>yet despite multiple competitive flights. Meaning it can be done
>repeatedly
>
>safely. Some RVs even win regional meets. They can be competitive at the
>lower levels. All levels have spins as a required maneuver. So what gives?
>
>lucky
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
Grooannn...Really...Why MUST it have a tailwheel? Watch the sparks fly
now!!
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
>From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: 8 vs. 8A
>Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 07:38:56 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>--- Brian wrote:
> >
> > I'm ready to start an RV. I visited Van's last weekend and took a
> > test
> > flight which convinced me. I'm set on the 8 series, but can't decide
> > between the 8 and 8A. Any opinions/suggestions to resolve my
> > dilemma.
>
>LOL!!!!!!!
>:) :) :)
>Ha!
>I'll start this puppy:
>"A sport plane _must_ have a tailwheel!"
>
>Next?
>
>Mike Thompson
>Austin, TX
>-6 N140RV (Reserved)
>Fuselage
>
>
>Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
To get serious for a moment. I think both are excellent aircraft. To me
the taildragger (a**dragger for real men) looks sexier but it really all
depends on your desires here. I choose the -8A because here in rotten old
Hawaii we have a tendency to have some winds. Thats ok for takeoff and
landing but makes for a hell of a crosswind on taxiing. The -8(a) has a
large vertical find and rudder that wants to weather-van a bunch. The -8A
can hold the crosswind during taxiing better generally.
Bottom line........go with your gut feeling and what your desires and intent
are.
Mike R.
>From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: 8 vs. 8A
>Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 06:27:27 HST
>
>
>Grooannn...Really...Why MUST it have a tailwheel? Watch the sparks fly
>now!!
>
>Mike Robertson
>RV-8A
>
>
> >From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: 8 vs. 8A
> >Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 07:38:56 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >
> >--- Brian wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm ready to start an RV. I visited Van's last weekend and took a
> > > test
> > > flight which convinced me. I'm set on the 8 series, but can't decide
> > > between the 8 and 8A. Any opinions/suggestions to resolve my
> > > dilemma.
> >
> >LOL!!!!!!!
> >:) :) :)
> >Ha!
> >I'll start this puppy:
> >"A sport plane _must_ have a tailwheel!"
> >
> >Next?
> >
> >Mike Thompson
> >Austin, TX
> >-6 N140RV (Reserved)
> >Fuselage
> >
> >
> >Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
> OK flamers, set your sites on me because I'm declaring myself flamebait.
:-)
>
> REAL MEN FLY TAILDRAGGERS.
>
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6
YEAH BABY, I'm standing beside Bob on this one.
Bill
RV-4 no such thing as a tri geared, sissy -A on an RV-4 :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
At 06:27 AM 6/16/00 HST, you wrote:
>
>Grooannn...Really...Why MUST it have a tailwheel? Watch the sparks fly
>now!!
>
>Mike Robertson
>RV-8A
SO YA WON'T SCAPE THE PAINT OFF!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flame Block Spray - 8 vs. 8A |
> - I personally think the -8A looks better than the -8! I know, people
think
> I am crazy, but it's true...
You are right, it is true......you ARE CRAZY. :-)
Bill
-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net> |
Okay, enough already.
Real men do what they want and could care less what some fighter pilot wanaby
thinks.
Garry RV6 finishing.
Bill Shook wrote:
>
> > OK flamers, set your sites on me because I'm declaring myself flamebait.
> :-)
> >
> > REAL MEN FLY TAILDRAGGERS.
> >
> > Bob Japundza
> > RV-6
>
> YEAH BABY, I'm standing beside Bob on this one.
>
> Bill
> RV-4 no such thing as a tri geared, sissy -A on an RV-4 :-)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
Oh come on now....a little poking fun and humor between pilots is hardly a
new concept....
>
> Okay, enough already.
> Real men do what they want and could care less what some fighter pilot
wanaby
> thinks.
> Garry RV6 finishing.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.James" <vtx(at)ntplx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: .30 cal or .50 cal? |
Hi Steve,
Well, I've read that "..REAL men, mount .50 cal ONLY!", but I wanted my
wife to be able to strafe Misquamicut Beach without too much recoil,,
thus we mounted a lone air-cooled Browning .30 cal in the air-intake
"mouth" under the RV cowl. The engine runs a little hot with no fresh
air coming in, but dang'd if the old lady can't tear up them picnic
baskets with only one or two passes.. Saves lotsa' av-gas dont'cha see!
Good luck,
RJ in CT
:=))))))))
==================================================================
> Hi,
>
> I'm having trouble deciding what kind of machine guns to put in my RV.
> I really like the .50's but the weight restrictions seem a little
> excessive. The .30's are also a little cheaper.
> -Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net> |
Bill,
Sorry, I thought that's what I was doing, and Bob I have flow a Staggering,
George LeMay's back in 1981. Sorry I just couldn't help myself. No Mustang yet
but hope springs eternal. Now, I'm going to get work.
Garry, RV6 still finishing.
Bill Shook wrote:
>
> Oh come on now....a little poking fun and humor between pilots is hardly a
> new concept....
>
> >
> > Okay, enough already.
> > Real men do what they want and could care less what some fighter pilot
> wanaby
> > thinks.
> > Garry RV6 finishing.
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
Hahaha, well then you got me didnt you? Yep, it's friday alright....have a
great weekend everyone.
Bill
>
> Bill,
> Sorry, I thought that's what I was doing, and Bob I have flow a
Staggering,
> George LeMay's back in 1981. Sorry I just couldn't help myself. No Mustang
yet
> but hope springs eternal. Now, I'm going to get work.
> Garry, RV6 still finishing.
>
>
> Bill Shook wrote:
>
> >
> > Oh come on now....a little poking fun and humor between pilots is hardly
a
> > new concept....
> >
> > >
> > > Okay, enough already.
> > > Real men do what they want and could care less what some fighter pilot
> > wanaby
> > > thinks.
> > > Garry RV6 finishing.
> > >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | FS: Duckworks light kit |
I just ordered the RMD wingtip lights, so I have the following for sale:
Duckworks leading edge landing light kit (for both wings). In original
box from Van's. First $150 (plus shipping) takes it.
--
Regards,
Ken Balch
Ashland, MA
RV-8 #81125
drilling fuselage skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | FS: Capacitive fuel sender kit |
I went with the float-type senders, so I have this kit for sale. As
received from Van's, the first $50 (plus shipping) takes it.
--
Regards,
Ken Balch
Ashland, MA
RV-8 #81125
drilling fuselage skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Update: RV-8 Dwg. 28 r5 error |
FYI...
I initially thought I had the problem I described on Wednesday because
my aft
bulkheads (F-808 - F-812) didn't look as though they'd align properly
with
the holes in the F-824 using the match hole called out by my drawing 28.
Scott R. added to the confusion by informing me that Van's has issued
Dwg. 28
r6 to 'fix' this error.
What I did yesterday was cleco my F-826, F-827 & F-842 bottom skins in
place to
see how everything lined up. The positions of F-826 & F-827 are fixed
by the
holes that match those in F-804. Given that and using the aft match
holes in
those two skins to place my F-842, it became clear to me that I would
need to
match my F-824 side skins to the F-823 skins as shown on my dwg. 28 r5.
So,
consider Dwg. 28 r5 to be correct on this score.
My F-811 & F-812, however, will definitely have to be moved further aft
by almost 1 inch. Consequently, my main longerons will need to be
spread slightly in the very back to accommodate this. They will also,
of course, have to be re-notched for the bars on F-811. When I've
accomplished all this, I'll mention it to Van's and let them sort out
their drawing
situation.
--
Regards,
Ken Balch
Ashland, MA
RV-8 #81125
drilling fuselage skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FS: Duckworks light kit |
Just a FYI, team rocket aircraft sells the duckworks landing lights for 69.95
a piece or 135.00 for a set of two plus shipping.
Chris Wilcox
F1 rocket 000
In a message dated 6/16/2000 2:44:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
kbalch1(at)mediaone.net writes:
<< I just ordered the RMD wingtip lights, so I have the following for sale:
Duckworks leading edge landing light kit (for both wings). In original
box from Van's. First $150 (plus shipping) takes it.
--
Regards,
Ken Balch
Ashland, MA
RV-8 #81125
drilling fuselage skin >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FS: Duckworks light kit |
Looks like Van's has raised their prices, but Team Rocket hasn't yet. I'll match
the price of $135 (plus shipping).
Ken
CW9371(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> Just a FYI, team rocket aircraft sells the duckworks landing lights for 69.95
> a piece or 135.00 for a set of two plus shipping.
>
> Chris Wilcox
> F1 rocket 000
>
> In a message dated 6/16/2000 2:44:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
> kbalch1(at)mediaone.net writes:
>
> << I just ordered the RMD wingtip lights, so I have the following for sale:
>
> Duckworks leading edge landing light kit (for both wings). In original
> box from Van's. First $150 (plus shipping) takes it.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Ken Balch
> Ashland, MA
> RV-8 #81125
> drilling fuselage skin >>
________________________________________________________________________________
Can anyone speak firsthand about the insurance cost differential for a trike
vs a taildragger??
I there is a differenc, after a certain level of experience is acquired in a
tail dragger does the cost drop to that of a trike?
Jack Rowell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vince Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
Does anyone know anything positive or negative about Airmaster Variable-Pitch Propellers? They have a web site at www.propellor.com
Vince
RV-8A Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
Check with your insurance.
I got a price break on having an 8a.
nose draggers were preferred over tail draggers.
Gert
Mike Thompson wrote:
>
>
> --- "Barstad, Are" wrote:
> >
> > I have no experience with either, but from reading specs and from
> > having had
> > to make the decision myself. Her are a few points you may want to
> > consider:
>
>
>
> OK, OK, I'll be serious - for now.
> All good points made thus far. One not made however is resale value.
>
> _If_ you intend to sell this bird when you either replace it or tire of
> it (??), you will get a better price and more interest in an 8A. I
> think that has been shown over and over again in the -6 aircraft sold.
>
> Nobody said life is fair.
>
> Mike Thompson
> Austin, TX
> -6 N140RV (Reserved)
> Fuselage
>
>
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
YOU MENT TO SAY: REAL "OLD" MEN fly obsolete configured planes. At
LOCKHEED MARTIN we design MODERN AIRCRAFT F-15,F-16 ect.
Hence NO RESALE. ( SORRY COULD NOT RESIST)
DO NOT ARCHIEVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Shook <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: 8 vs. 8A
>
> > OK flamers, set your sites on me because I'm declaring myself flamebait.
> :-)
> >
> > REAL MEN FLY TAILDRAGGERS.
> >
> > Bob Japundza
> > RV-6
>
>
> YEAH BABY, I'm standing beside Bob on this one.
>
> Bill
> RV-4 no such thing as a tri geared, sissy -A on an RV-4 :-)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
And exactly how many of those 'real aircraft' leave 3 wheels hanging in the
breeze for all to see? If I were building a tri gear, I would make sure it
folded up out of sight so that other pilots wouldn't make fun of me. The
real reason those F-whatever's are retractable. :-)
>
> YOU MENT TO SAY: REAL "OLD" MEN fly obsolete configured planes. At
> LOCKHEED MARTIN we design MODERN AIRCRAFT F-15,F-16 ect.
> Hence NO RESALE. ( SORRY COULD NOT RESIST)
>
> DO NOT ARCHIEVE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Modification of F-621 canopy deck |
Regarding RV-6 tip-up, F-621
I am considering modifying my F-621 canopy deck to make room for an
instrument in the lower left of the panel. Has anyone else done this?
Can anyone see a reason I shouldn't do this? Can anyone suggest how I
might do this? The basic interference problem is becaue the F-621
angles inward as it goes forward.
Thank you for your help.
- Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Hiers" <craig-rv4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
There you are on final approach, it's a short narrow grass strip with tall
tree's on both sides.
You make a nice flare for a three point landing, then a strong gust
of wind hits the plane. The next thing you know your a**hole has eaten
the cushion you were sitting on.....agian.
I would'nt have it any other way.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee,FL. a little adrenalin is good for you
> And exactly how many of those 'real aircraft' leave 3 wheels hanging in
the
> breeze for all to see? If I were building a tri gear, I would make sure
it
> folded up out of sight so that other pilots wouldn't make fun of me. The
> real reason those F-whatever's are retractable. :-)
>
>
> >
> > YOU MENT TO SAY: REAL "OLD" MEN fly obsolete configured planes. At
> > LOCKHEED MARTIN we design MODERN AIRCRAFT F-15,F-16 ect.
> > Hence NO RESALE. ( SORRY COULD NOT RESIST)
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pickup Checking |
>
>Randy J. Pflanzer wrote:
>
>> Proper weight and balance procedures require you to place fuel in each
>tank
>> and then run the engine until it quits
>
>Oh, no! Is this procedure required by a FAR?
>
>I want to run my new engine on the ground as little as possible so I was
>planning on determining unusable by putting a measured gallon in each tank
>then draining each by use of the aux pump out the gascolater drain. What
>doesn't come back out is unusable, right?
>
>I would be interested in a script for these pre-flight testing procedures.
>Someone once said tie the tail down (if it isn't already!) and see that fuel
>can be pumped to the carb in good quantity to simulate takeoff conditions.
>
>Hal Kempthorne
>RV6a N7HK
>
The following info is from FAA Advisory Circular 90-89A,
AMATEUR-BUILT AIRCRAFT AND ULTRALIGHT FLIGHT TESTING HANDBOOK. It
was written jointly be the EAA and FAA, and has a lot of good info on
flight testing, and all the stuff you should do before you go flying.
It is available at:
http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/acs/90-89a.pdf
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/docs/90-89A.PDF
Lots of other good flight test related links can be found on my RV
Links Page, at:
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rvlinks.html
Fuel Flow and Unusable Fuel Check: This is a field test to ensure the
aircraft engine will get enough fuel to run properly, even if the
aircraft is in a steep climb or stall attitude.
(1) First, place the aircraft's nose at an angle 5 degrees above the
highest anticipated climb angle. The easiest and safest way to do
this with a conventional gear aircraft is to dig a hole and place the
aircraft's tail in it. For a nose gear aircraft, build a ramp to
raise the nose gear to the proper angle.
(2) Make sure the aircraft is tied-down and chocked. With minimum
fuel in the tanks, disconnect
the fuel line to carburetor. The fuel flow with a gravity flow system
should be 150 percent of the fuel consumption of the engine at full
throttle. With a fuel system that is pressurized, the fuel flow
should be at least 125 percent. When the fuel stops flowing, the
remaining fuel is the ''unusable fuel'' quantity.
(3) Since the fuel consumption of most modern engines is
approximately .55 pounds per brake horsepower per hour for a 100
horsepower engine, the test fuel flow should be 82.5 pounds (13.7
gallons) per hour for gravity feed, or 68.75 pounds (11.5 gallons)
per hour for a pressurized system. The pounds per hour divided by 60
equals 1.4 pounds and 1.15 pounds per minute fuel rate respectively.
NOTE: Formula for fuel flow rate gravity feed is .55 x engine
horsepower x 1.50 = pounds of fuel per hour divided by 60 to get
pounds per minute, divided by 6 to get gallons per minute. For a
pressurized sys-tem, substitute 1.25 for 1.50 to determine fuel flow
rate.
Comment from Kevin Horton - once the engine is leaned out at cruise
power, the fuel consumption will be quite a bit lower than .55
lb/hr/hp. This value looks about right for an engine at full rich
mixture.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Airmaster Props |
>
>Does anyone know anything positive or negative about Airmaster
>Variable-Pitch Propellers? They have a web site at www.propellor.com
>
>Vince
>RV-8A Wings
>
The current models seem to be only for engines such as the Rotax
912/914 and the Jabiru. These engines will be much easier on props
than four cylinder Lycomings. Given the very bad things that can
happen when props shed a blade, I want to see evidence of thorough
testing, and lots of service history on large four cylinder Lycomings
before I buy a prop from a small or new company.
In my business you don't take any more risk than necessary, and you
do everything you can to mitigate the risks you do take. Firewall
forward is not a good place to try to save money unless you are
prepared to accept the additional risks associated with stuff of
uncertain quality or reliablity.
Just my opinion, not a flame.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | CDI depth needed |
Hi,
Can someone please tell me the depth of a Mid-Continent CDI for a GPS
receiver?
Thanks,
Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com> |
| Subject: | .30 cal or .50 cal? (LONG answer) |
I always thought the foward baggage compartment would be a good place to
mount two .30's, easier on the structure. Switch to rear seat solo for CG
reasons, two guns is better than four, you can carry more ammo. Since
fighters are really one seat anyway, add a hard point to the spar center
section/carrythough for a single ~150lb bomb for the occasional a/g work.
.30's are preferable, as two would be more than adequate to down the
Cessna's, Bonanza's and other ilk that are usually encountered, also left
over rounds could be used in my deer rifle.
In all seriousness, I am planning on putting a gun/sword rack in my RV.
I currently drive to Idaho a couple of times a year to go hunting with
family, intend to fly up once the RV is done. My thoughts (which I will
finalize once I start putting the fuse together) is either to attach to
the back of the front seat, or along the side of the fuselage, next to the
seat. Potential problems with the first options are interference with the
pilots head, or control stick. Problems with the second is that I am not
a small person, and need all the width I can get. Another option that has
occured to me as I write this, would be to leave out the rear seat back,
and strap them to the rear seat. Mounting must clamp the weapons in place
sturdily enough to hold them done in the event of a crash, able to handle
my shotgun or shinai (both about 4ft long, don't bend) or scoped big game
rifle (smaller, but heavy approx 10lbs). Placarded "No aerobatics with
weapons in weapon rack". Would be interested in hearing the ideas of
others along these lines. Similar the the ski/golf club discussions.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
RV-8 80091 Riviting fuel tanks
1/5 Starduster II N23UT flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A Week wing theory |
Hi there listers, I have been working on my -9 wing kit for a week now, are
there any other -9 wing builders out there on this list?
Pardon the sarcasm, got tired of deleting hundreds of weak wing dribble last
week!
Kevin Shannon
-9A Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
Nah...the real reson the fighters went to tri gear is that the y got tired
of the "real Men" ground looping them and screwing up the wing tips.
Gee...when was the last time I saw a tri-gear ground loop....
HEHE
Mike R.
>From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: 8 vs. 8A
>Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 19:57:17 -0400
>
>
>And exactly how many of those 'real aircraft' leave 3 wheels hanging in the
>breeze for all to see? If I were building a tri gear, I would make sure it
>folded up out of sight so that other pilots wouldn't make fun of me. The
>real reason those F-whatever's are retractable. :-)
>
>
> >
> > YOU MENT TO SAY: REAL "OLD" MEN fly obsolete configured planes. At
> > LOCKHEED MARTIN we design MODERN AIRCRAFT F-15,F-16 ect.
> > Hence NO RESALE. ( SORRY COULD NOT RESIST)
> >
> > DO NOT ARCHIEVE
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
But I do agree with one thing....Y'all have a good weekend!!
Mike R.
>From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: 8 vs. 8A
>Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 19:57:17 -0400
>
>
>And exactly how many of those 'real aircraft' leave 3 wheels hanging in the
>breeze for all to see? If I were building a tri gear, I would make sure it
>folded up out of sight so that other pilots wouldn't make fun of me. The
>real reason those F-whatever's are retractable. :-)
>
>
> >
> > YOU MENT TO SAY: REAL "OLD" MEN fly obsolete configured planes. At
> > LOCKHEED MARTIN we design MODERN AIRCRAFT F-15,F-16 ect.
> > Hence NO RESALE. ( SORRY COULD NOT RESIST)
> >
> > DO NOT ARCHIEVE
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gusndale(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Skymap IIIC GPS - RS232 Interface to the Notepad... |
In a message dated 6/16/00 6:54:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
grobdriver(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< > Realizing that uploading ASCII text to this baby is a pretty
> trivial task and being a fair programmer, it hit me that I should
> spend
> a few hours away from building my plane and come up with a piece of
> software that might do the same.
Matt, keep us informed of your progress.
I have a IIIC and if you can figure it out and develop a product for
less $$, I'd probably be interested. >>
Matt,
I have a IIIC too and would also be interested in your progress in developing
a software product. Unless the info you need is in the the IIIC owners
manual I can't help you. I'm guessing you already have access to that. If
not, I can loan you mine.
Dale Wotring
RV6A wireing etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
> It amazes me how easy it would be to scratch build a pair of leading edge
> landing lights. I have seen a pair of lights that had the same lenses at
the
> local auto store for less than a tank of gas in my car. Next
>
> thats the easy part. The hard part is bending the lexan.
Actually you wouldn't beleive how easy bending lexan is. Gravity does it for
you. I bent a piece of alum into a curve and layed it on a cookie sheet. I
pre cut the lexan and balanced it on top of the curve. I don't remember what
I set the oven on but I do remember ruining the first one. It really doesn't
matter as lexan is dirt cheap and available all over the place these days.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV Training In Knoxville |
I will be in Knoxville, Tn next weekend (24 & 25 June) with my RV6. If anyone
in that area needs training, contact me off-list.
John Henley, CFII, N6LD 350 Hrs
850-609-3175
________________________________________________________________________________
Is the Aurora a slider or tip up? Terry E. cole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bending Lexan |
I made my own leading edge lenses a few years back. I used the wing leading
edge skin to form the curve, and protected the lexan from the skin with
plastic freezer wrap. As I recall, the temp was in the mid 300's F range.
Lexan requires a higher temperature than plexiglass. I learned that it is
best to get the oven temperature stabilized so that the oven doesn't cycle
ON while the glass is in the oven. If it does, the glass bubbles due to the
concentration of heat. I handled the glass with a pair of cotton gloves.
After laying the glass in the curved fixture, a bean bag will help hold the
material tight to the form while it sets up. You could probably re-heat one
that doesn't bend correctly and start all over.
I remember that someone published lots of good stuff on temperatures. You
could check the archives around 1997.
Tom Barnes -6
----- Original Message -----
From: Norman Hunger <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 12:56 AM
Subject: RV-List: Bending Lexan
>
> > It amazes me how easy it would be to scratch build a pair of leading
edge
> > landing lights. I have seen a pair of lights that had the same lenses
at
> the
> > local auto store for less than a tank of gas in my car. Next
> >
>
> > thats the easy part. The hard part is bending the lexan.
>
> Actually you wouldn't beleive how easy bending lexan is. Gravity does it
for
> you. I bent a piece of alum into a curve and layed it on a cookie sheet. I
> pre cut the lexan and balanced it on top of the curve. I don't remember
what
> I set the oven on but I do remember ruining the first one. It really
doesn't
> matter as lexan is dirt cheap and available all over the place these days.
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV builders in Argentina or Chile? |
> Any replies, in English, Spanish, French, German or eh... Norwegian are
welcome
My God man....if you can speak all of that, you won't find FAA-ese to be all
that difficult. :-)
humbled
Bill
I speak Van-plan-ese. The most contradictory language on this rock. :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
>are there any other -9 wing builders out there on this list?
>Kevin Shannon, -9A Wings
I have been working on my wings since March 22nd. Everything has been going
quite well. However, I do have one suggestion that may save other builders
some time and trouble. If I were to do it over, I would have riveted the
flap hinge brackets and associated angles to the ribs before riveting those
ribs to the rear spar. It was not easy (for this novice builder) to rivet
the flap brackets to the ribs right next to the spar but it would have been
simple to squeeze these rivets before the spar was in place.
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
Tanks done and no leaks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Light Power Supply Kit |
The VonDane's wrote:
>
>
> I am interested in what this thing can do also... Anyone have any good or
> bad information on this?
>
> Here is more details:
> http://www.i-mcm.com/Search/level_5.jhtml?PRODID=44338&SKUID=43582
>
> Bill VonDane, Colorado
> RV-8A, N912V, Wings
> http://vondane.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Norman Hunger <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 11:58 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Strobe Light Power Supply Kit
>
> >
> > I'm looking in the new MCM Electronics printed catalog on page 115. Part #
> > 80-735 is a Strobe Circuit Kit for $12.75 They show a picture of an empty
> > circuit board and a bunch of small parts, no enclosure. You have to solder
> > it together.
> >
> > I'll quote from the catalog: "Can be used as emergency warning light on
> > autos, radio tower or anywhere a strobe light is needed. Variable flash
> > rate. Dimensions 3 1/2" X 1 3/4" Operates on 6/12 VDC."
> >
> > Does any one know any thing about this? Could it be suitable for us?
> >
> > More info or to order your own free catalog of tons of interesting stuff:
> > www.mcmelectronics.com
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Norman Hunger
> > RV6A Delta BC
>
Norman & Bill,
It's quite likely that the light level will be rather low for a/c use.
You can buy similar strobes, prebuilt in a case from burglar/fire alarm
dealers for about the same price. Try
http://www.wmballen.com
or for more light output, try
http://www.jcwhitney.com
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pickup Checking |
Maybe what I did is a bad idea, but I gotta ask just because it hasn't
been mentioned.
When I installed the pickup tube, I positioned the end of it directly
over the drain hole so that I could remove the drain (empty tank
first?!)
and inspect for/clean trash from the pickup screen on the end of the
tube. It seems that in this location it would be simple to visually
ascertain that the tube is in the correct position after re-installation
or tightening of the fuel line.
I also combined the fuel fitting spacer with the anti-rotate tab by
using a strip of .040 about 3" long with a hole in one end for the
fitting and a notch in the other end (bent 90 deg.) for the tube. One
rivet to attach, liberal dose of pro-seal. I anyone's interested can
send a jpeg.
If I have erred here, somebody let me know before I button this sucker
up!
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips -6A, starting other wing...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)ispchannel.com> |
> Gee...when was the last time I saw a tri-gear ground loop....
When the nose gear broke :-(
Sorry,
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (flying 7 hours- raining for 3 days now...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | RV-8 Boo Boo (HELP ASAP) |
This is my first attempt at posting a message, I hope my protocol is correct.
My project is a RV-8. Currently working on
my HORAZONTAL STABILIZER. I think I just made my first BIG error. My concern
is that I was too aggressive when
trimming the ears off HS-814 (to clear the rib flange and skin). Sent a picture
to Van's and from eyeballing it they though I
should replace HS-814. Oh @#&#@#, was just ready to skin the darn thing. I think
that when I mate the Horz Stab to the
fuselage I won't have the edge clearance on the outside AN3,10-3 bolt of HS-814.
To help me determine this, is there an
"8" builder out there that can from his full size plans or actually measuring the
width of the fuselage (to the outside of the
F-887 Longerons) (DWG-27) at the bolt line through HS-814? This may help me determine
if I have to chance destroying
my Stab trying to drill out the 14 rivets on HS-814. The thought makes me shudder.
If any HELPERS could email me
direct or call me collect at pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com or 515-277-4173. Boy I feel
like a dope, thanks in advance for any
assistance. It's been great until now!
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Modification of F-621 canopy deck |
> Regarding RV-6 tip-up, F-621
>
> I am considering modifying my F-621 canopy deck to make room for an
> instrument in the lower left of the panel. Has anyone else done this?
> Can anyone see a reason I shouldn't do this? Can anyone suggest how I
> might do this? The basic interference problem is becaue the F-621
> angles inward as it goes forward.
F-621 looks structural to me. I doubt that we can put more than holes in it.
To interupt the inside edge might be a no no. Lets call the factory and ask.
I'll do it for you. Stay tuned, I'll re-post the results on Monday night.
Many have had to lower their panels to accomodate their panel requirements.
I have two cardboard designs right now and on is 1 1/2" lower and the other
is 1 3/4" lower. Neither bothers my legs for room when I sit in it.
Regards,
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)mari.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pickup Checking |
Mark:
Your installation sounds good to me. What I did with my pickup tube was to
place it so that its tip was just outboard of the drain hole. This allows
any water to accumulate in the corner where the drain is, but will not get
sucked up into the fuel pickup. Downside is that I have just a tad less
usable fuel, but maybe also just a tad more piece of mind when it comes to
water in the fuel.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
second wing bottom skin riveting
Peshtigo, WI
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net>
Date: Saturday, June 17, 2000 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Pickup Checking
>
>Maybe what I did is a bad idea, but I gotta ask just because it hasn't
>been mentioned.
>
>When I installed the pickup tube, I positioned the end of it directly
>over the drain hole so that I could remove the drain (empty tank
>first?!)
>and inspect for/clean trash from the pickup screen on the end of the
>tube. It seems that in this location it would be simple to visually
>ascertain that the tube is in the correct position after re-installation
>or tightening of the fuel line.
>
>I also combined the fuel fitting spacer with the anti-rotate tab by
>using a strip of .040 about 3" long with a hole in one end for the
>fitting and a notch in the other end (bent 90 deg.) for the tube. One
>rivet to attach, liberal dose of pro-seal. I anyone's interested can
>send a jpeg.
>
>If I have erred here, somebody let me know before I button this sucker
>up!
>
>>From the PossumWorks in TN
>Mark Phillips -6A, starting other wing...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pickup Checking |
Jeff,
Piece of mind is a good thing- now if I only had one...
From the PossumWorks
Mark
Jeff Orear wrote:
>
>
> Mark:
>
> Your installation sounds good to me. What I did with my pickup tube was to
> place it so that its tip was just outboard of the drain hole. This allows
> any water to accumulate in the corner where the drain is, but will not get
> sucked up into the fuel pickup. Downside is that I have just a tad less
> usable fuel, but maybe also just a tad more piece of mind when it comes to
> water in the fuel.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A
> second wing bottom skin riveting
> Peshtigo, WI
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, June 17, 2000 11:04 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Pickup Checking
>
> >
> >Maybe what I did is a bad idea, but I gotta ask just because it hasn't
> >been mentioned.
> >
> >When I installed the pickup tube, I positioned the end of it directly
> >over the drain hole so that I could remove the drain (empty tank
> >first?!)
> >and inspect for/clean trash from the pickup screen on the end of the
> >tube. It seems that in this location it would be simple to visually
> >ascertain that the tube is in the correct position after re-installation
> >or tightening of the fuel line.
> >
> >I also combined the fuel fitting spacer with the anti-rotate tab by
> >using a strip of .040 about 3" long with a hole in one end for the
> >fitting and a notch in the other end (bent 90 deg.) for the tube. One
> >rivet to attach, liberal dose of pro-seal. I anyone's interested can
> >send a jpeg.
> >
> >If I have erred here, somebody let me know before I button this sucker
> >up!
> >
> >>From the PossumWorks in TN
> >Mark Phillips -6A, starting other wing...
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Does anyone have magneto gears they want to sell? Looking for Lycoming part
numbers 72495 and 61163. If so, send a note to nowakod(at)us.ibm.com.
These gears are for my 0-320-B2C in my -6. I understand that Lycoming now
makes one gear that will cover both of the above part numbers...that part
number is 68C19622. Any insight on a good place to get these would also be
appreciated...don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rollin <noah(at)eagle.ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 8 vs. 8A (viewing pictures) |
You might be able to view the pictures by checking the "as web page" option.
Open "My Documents" and you will find the "as web page" under the "view" on
the tool bar.
Good luck. Rollin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Mountain Tour 2000 |
Listers:
I got back yesterday at 3PM from a trip around the Western US in my
airplane. I had a REAL nice time.
The route was Carlsbad, NM to Gallup, NM to Cedar City, Utah to Cameron Park
(Sacramento), CA to Boise, ID to Missoula, MT to Grand Junction, CO back to
Carlsbad. Other states flown over were Arizona, Oregon, Wyoming and Utah.
This was about 2485 nautical (2862 statute) miles and was flown in a total
of 16.4 hours for an average fuel burn of 7.89 gph at 151 knots (175 mph).
I flew almost totally in the mornings.
I kept good performance records, and experimented quite a bit with high
altitudes. One of the high points was south of the Uintah Mountains in Utah
where I was at 17,500 feet at a TAS of 164 knots at a GS of 206 knots (238
mph) while sipping fuel at about 7.5 gph. Life is good.
I am trying to write this trip up on my web page, with pictures, but it is
going to take a while. I'm afraid I am going to run out of server space
also, so the project might not get finished. In the meantime, I do have day
one up on my web page.
The two big surprises were the low fuel burn and the low average speed.
Part of the reason for the fuel burn has to be the amount of time I spent
above 12,500. Of course, my cruise speeds were much higher than the average
speed. Part of the problem was deviations for weather and sightseeing and I
think a significant factor is my inability to recapture lost speed on the
climb in the descent. I just cannot speed up much without overspeeding my
prop. I have to throttle way back, even if I start letting down 30 minutes
out.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)AOL.COM |
Who, if anyone, is planning on going to Scapoose, Oregon on June 24th??? Let
me know off-list if possible. I plan on making the trip.
Jim Nice
Arlington, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Tour 2000 |
>
>Larry,
>
>Thanks for sharing the excellent photos and narration of your trip. My
>wife was looking at the pictures with me. Just might get her to go on a
>trip afterall! (She's not as enthusiastic about the RV as I am). What kind
>of camera are you using? Great pictures.
>
Thank you Jerry.
Well I'm just using a 35mm SLR (Nikon FM). To tell the truth I am not very
happy about taking pictures through canopies. Previously I owned a Pacer
and loved the ability to take the door off for photography.
On this trip I found out that pictures taken under an overcast turn out much
better (later in the trip where it was snowing). The pictures taken in
sunlight almost always have reflections and/or are washed out. That is in
addition to the loss of quality due to the poor optical qualities of the
canopy. Anyway, the pictures are sufficient to get the idea across.
Larry Pardue
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Tour 2000 |
Larry,
Thank you very much. Those are the most amazing photos. I know you
probably think it's all pretty normal, but here in sunny (FLAT) Florida
there isn't much of that to see. I did, however, once fly over the power
plant out near cedar key....a very tall structure. :-)
Sure we can buzz down the beach....but that doesn't really compare to the
pics you shared. New motivation to finish my blazing trail of RV building.
I really want to see all of that up close and personal.
Bill
-4 wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Mountain Tour 2000
>
>
> >
> >Larry,
> >
> >Thanks for sharing the excellent photos and narration of your trip. My
> >wife was looking at the pictures with me. Just might get her to go on a
> >trip afterall! (She's not as enthusiastic about the RV as I am). What
kind
> >of camera are you using? Great pictures.
> >
>
>
> Thank you Jerry.
>
> Well I'm just using a 35mm SLR (Nikon FM). To tell the truth I am not
very
> happy about taking pictures through canopies. Previously I owned a Pacer
> and loved the ability to take the door off for photography.
>
> On this trip I found out that pictures taken under an overcast turn out
much
> better (later in the trip where it was snowing). The pictures taken in
> sunlight almost always have reflections and/or are washed out. That is in
> addition to the loss of quality due to the poor optical qualities of the
> canopy. Anyway, the pictures are sufficient to get the idea across.
>
> Larry Pardue
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dgmurray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Boo Boo (HELP ASAP) |
Jack - it's still great :-)). If Vans recommends that you remake a part,
then it is a good idea to follow their advice. I have replaced MANY
mis-built parts over the course of building my RV-6. Thats how we all learn.
The part you are concerned about is a very important structural part and
should be made correctly. Just go on to another part until the replacement
piece from Vans arrives.
Keep building and have fun !
-----------------------------------------------------
Doug Murray RV-6 C-GRPA
Southern Alberta
----- Original Message -----
From: <pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 10:31 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Boo Boo (HELP ASAP)
>
> This is my first attempt at posting a message, I hope my protocol is
correct. My project is a RV-8. Currently working on
> my HORAZONTAL STABILIZER. I think I just made my first BIG error. My
concern is that I was too aggressive when
> trimming the ears off HS-814 (to clear the rib flange and skin). Sent a
picture to Van's and from eyeballing it they though I
> should replace HS-814. Oh @#&#@#, was just ready to skin the darn thing.
I think that when I mate the Horz Stab to the
> fuselage I won't have the edge clearance on the outside AN3,10-3 bolt of
HS-814. To help me determine this, is there an
> "8" builder out there that can from his full size plans or actually
measuring the width of the fuselage (to the outside of the
> F-887 Longerons) (DWG-27) at the bolt line through HS-814? This may help
me determine if I have to chance destroying
> my Stab trying to drill out the 14 rivets on HS-814. The thought makes me
shudder. If any HELPERS could email me
> direct or call me collect at pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com or 515-277-4173. Boy I
feel like a dope, thanks in advance for any
> assistance. It's been great until now!
> Jack
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Travel to OK City |
I'll be in OK City for about 10 days starting this Monday.
Are there any notable events next weekend? (Yes, I know. We just missed
'Air America.')
Charlie
flying -4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Kellar" <rjkellar(at)softcom.net> |
Message to follow not purely RV related...Hit delete now if desired. This
past week I had the entire radio stack from my 1967 Bonanza forcibly removed
after the hanger was broken into. Since I had a stainless steel bar with
locking mechanism installed after the previous theft in 1993, there was
considerable damage to the panel and repairs and replacement will be a small
fortune. Since I am a list lurker and contributor I would like to ask for
the list's help if possible. It appears that 4 airports were hit that night
including a deaf pilot who lost all of his specialized voice recognition
radio equipment. This seems to be a person or persons who "case" airports
finding suitable aircraft and then strike many at one time. The radios are
all King as other radios are ignored. Since there must be a market for
these radios to make them useful I would like to ask the list for any
information you might have regarding offers to sell you radios without
serial numbers, or yellow tags or at discounted prices. This informatin
will be given to the sheriff's department and to USAIG the insurance company
and their investigator. I would hope to do something to prevent any of you
from suffering the anguish I felt when I opened the door and found a giant
hole ripped in the panel. I felt violated and I had enough thoughts of
revenge to do Hannibal Lecter proud. Rather than become an avenging mad man
I hope to channel this anger into something useful and stop these thieves
once and for all. Thank you for letting me vent.
Bob Kellar
RV6A (Planning for a move to the airport next month after 10 long years. SN
20988)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave" <cimperman(at)tusco.net> |
If you want to find a market for the radios, look no farther than
your friendly electronic auction. I am sure a large bit gets sold
there, so much stuff is sold, it's hard to keep track. I would
sugest you contact your local police, asking for help in patrolling
the airport.......that will not do much, but will get the idea
across.....I would suggest you get the word out, try finding a Police
Officer/Deputy Sheriff and try giving him a ride, and a chance to
take the controls..... I have been a police officer for over 10
years...took me a flight to get me interested and I patrol the local
airport every night....have not had any problems at our place since.
Also got me interested in RV's, now if I could find someone close to
help me get past my fright, and get into actually building my RV
instead of just looking over the parts and plans.....Hard to take
that 1st step..... anyone close, mind if I look over thier shoulder
a little.
Dave Cimperman
New Philadelphia Ohio
---- Original Message ----
From: rjkellar(at)softcom.net
Subject: RE: RV-List: Solen Radios
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 22:59:53 -0700
>
>Message to follow not purely RV related...Hit delete now if desired.
This
>past week I had the entire radio stack from my 1967 Bonanza forcibly
removed
>after the hanger was broken into. Since I had a stainless steel bar
with
>locking mechanism installed after the previous theft in 1993, there
was
>considerable damage to the panel and repairs and replacement will be
a small
>fortune. Since I am a list lurker and contributor I would like to
ask for
>the list's help if possible. It appears that 4 airports were hit
that night
>including a deaf pilot who lost all of his specialized voice
recognition
>radio equipment. This seems to be a person or persons who "case"
airports
>finding suitable aircraft and then strike many at one time. The
radios are
>all King as other radios are ignored. Since there must be a market
for
>these radios to make them useful I would like to ask the list for any
>information you might have regarding offers to sell you radios
without
>serial numbers, or yellow tags or at discounted prices. This
informatin
>will be given to the sheriff's department and to USAIG the insurance
company
>and their investigator. I would hope to do something to prevent any
of you
>from suffering the anguish I felt when I opened the door and found a
giant
>hole ripped in the panel. I felt violated and I had enough thoughts
of
>revenge to do Hannibal Lecter proud. Rather than become an avenging
mad man
>I hope to channel this anger into something useful and stop these
thieves
>once and for all. Thank you for letting me vent.
>Bob Kellar
>RV6A (Planning for a move to the airport next month after 10 long
years. SN
>20988)
>
>
Tusco.Net, Inc. The Best ISP.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lexan requires a higher temperature |
I am a plastic Fabricator by trade,
Lexan forms at approximately 360 F. Lexan also absorbs moisture. Since the
forming temp is above the point that moisture turns to steam, the moisture
will turn to steam inside of the plastic when it reaches a point above 312
F. If you dry the plastic @ 250 F for approx 12 hours per 1/8" of
thickness, You can eliminate the moisture in the plastic. You can then
successfully heat it all the way to 400 F with out the bubbles forming since
you have driven the moisture out of the plastic.
400 F is the upper limit of the forming temp. It is what I use for deep
vacuum forms when I need a very soft form to get all of the detail I need.
In a message dated 06/18/2000 2:58:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
<< As I recall, the temp was in the mid 300's F range.
Lexan requires a higher temperature than plexiglas. I learned that it is
best to get the oven temperature stabilized so that the oven doesn't cycle
ON while the glass is in the oven. If it does, the glass bubbles due to the
concentration of heat. >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Magneto gears |
In a message dated 6/17/00 5:12:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Aero7ac(at)AOL.COM
writes:
<< Does anyone have magneto gears they want to sell? Looking for Lycoming
part
numbers 72495 and 61163. If so, send a note to nowakod(at)us.ibm.com.
These gears are for my 0-320-B2C in my -6. I understand that Lycoming now
makes one gear that will cover both of the above part numbers...that part
number is 68C19622. Any insight on a good place to get these would also be
appreciated...don >>
Try Jeff Rose at Electroair. He usually carries them, or knows where to get
'em. Also, most aircraft salvage places (Wentworth, etc) will have them.
Prices are usually $60 - $100 ea..
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Boo Boo (HELP ASAP) |
> Just go on to another part until the replacement
> piece from Vans arrives.
In a month.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vince Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
I heard recently that a NOTAM was issued in June of 1998 that allows IFR
approved GPS units to be used to identify any DME fix or ADF/LOM. I did a
search of the FAR's and can find no reference. Does anyone know if an IFR
approved GPS can be used is such a manner. I would really like to read it
for myself if you can point me in the right direction. Also, does the
statement only apply to approach approved units or can an enroute/terminal
area approved unit like the Apollo GX-65 be used to identify DME fixes?
Just starting to think about avionics and panels and such. Where can I
find information detailing what has to be done to have a legal installation
in an experimental? How much can I do and how much HAS to be farmed out?
I keep having nightmares about spending huge amounts of time and money
only to have an inspector waltz in, wave a list of requirements that I've
never seen and tell me everything I've done is unacceptable.
Vince
RV-8A
Planning ahead
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Primer Line Silver Solder |
I am ready to solder the AN800-2 globe unions to the 1/8 OD copper tubing
for the primers.
1) Where do I obtain small quantities of silver solder?
2) What is the melting point of 1)?
3) Can I use propane or do I need ox-acetylene?
I found some silver solder at Tower Hobbies but it melts at 430F which seems
too low.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer Line Silver Solder |
>
>I am ready to solder the AN800-2 globe unions to the 1/8 OD copper tubing
>for the primers.
>1) Where do I obtain small quantities of silver solder?
>2) What is the melting point of 1)?
>3) Can I use propane or do I need ox-acetylene?
>
I got my silver solder at the local welding supply shop.
I used an acetylene (no oxygen) torch. Don't know if propane would get hot
enough, but I doubt it. The metal is red hot when it is just hot enough, at
least with the silver solder formulation I used (can't remember now what it
was. Just told the guy what I was going to do, and he told me what to buy).
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Streit <wooody98(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer Line Silver Solder |
Dennis,
Acetylene without oxygen burns very sooty and contains to much carbon. You can
purchase a Bernz O Matic torch from home depot that burns Mapp gas and will work
well with silver solder.
Jim Streit
RV-9 emp.
Dennis Persyk wrote:
>
> I am ready to solder the AN800-2 globe unions to the 1/8 OD copper tubing
> for the primers.
> 1) Where do I obtain small quantities of silver solder?
> 2) What is the melting point of 1)?
> 3) Can I use propane or do I need ox-acetylene?
>
> I found some silver solder at Tower Hobbies but it melts at 430F which seems
> too low.
>
> Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
> Hampshire, IL C38
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Ludwig" <ludwig(at)azstarnet.com> |
| Subject: | Need measurments for paint booth |
Hi all,
I'm getting ready to build a paint booth that will take my RV-8 fuse. Can
someone furnish me the following dimensions?
landing gear spread:
firewall to vert. fin (not including rudder)
Thanks!
- Bill in Tucson
awaiting -8 quick build
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Leading Edge Landing Lights |
There is some thing very simple that can be done to the leading edge landing
lights to make them better. Paint the entire inside of the cavity white. The
whole thing becomes a light. They will cast a glow towards their peripherals
that you will notice when taxing on the ground. Not a huge difference but it
will cast more light around. It might make them more visible to other
aircraft when flying as well.
Years ago guys were saying to put a strip of the shiny foil tape across the
top inside the compartment. Try the white paint. It will do more. It also
looks quite sharp.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David & Betty Burton <dburton(at)foxinternet.net> |
JNice51355(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> Who, if anyone, is planning on going to Scapoose, Oregon on June 24th??? Let
> me know off-list if possible.
Hi Jim,
I intend to be there. I'm going down to Van's earlier in the week with my
motorhome, and then intend to help with the fly-in set up. Let's hope for better
weather then today (rain and 60).
Dave Burton
RV6
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 wing rivetting sequence |
So- I've got all of my wing skeleton and skins primed, but I haven't yet
started on my tanks (other than fitting the z-brackets to the main spar).
I'd like to rivet on the leading edge assembly and the top skins before I
start building the tanks- mostly so I can feel like I'm progressing, but
also so I can get some of my clecoes back!
Is there any problem doing this? I can't see any from studying the plans,
but the manual has you build the tanks before riveting on the skins- and my
other plan deviations have met with disaster. The only objection I can
think of to riveting the entire wing together first is that with the bottom
skins on, you couldn't use a countersink cage to countersink the nutplates
holes that attach the bottom edge of the tank to the spar...
Any advice would be appreciated!
Matthew Gelber
-8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine level w/longerons? |
Listers,
Although this question pertaints to my RV-8 I believe the principal would
apply to all RVs, so here goes. About six months ago at a local builder's
group meeting at my house Bill Benedict was showing another builder how the
top of the engine should be level with the main longerons. He had someone
raise the tail and shim it so as to level the fuse as measured with a bubble
level on the cockpit sides (longerons). He then put the bubble level on the
engine to demonstrate this. He indicated you could measure it longitudinally
on the tops of the valve covers, tops of the head castings, or the pushrod
tubes. Using the bubble level on all three showed the same results.
Turns out my engine was not exactly level with the longerons, but rather
tilted up a bit. My buddy's SmartLevel was not there at the time so I do not
know the precise difference in degrees. I've been thinking about this in the
months since wondering whether to worry about it or not. The prop (constant
speed) was not mounted at the time and there was some speculation that that
weight would bring it down. I am now about to mount my cowl and will need to
either address it or not. After doing some preliminary cutting last night on
the cowl top half it does appear that the rear of the spinner is not
parallel with the face of the cowl, but of course this could be a problem
with the cowl (Sam James) as well.
No where in the manual or the plans is there any mention of checking that
the engine, and thus horizontal thrust line. I could make a small adjustment
here by moving some washers in the upper engine mount thus tilting the
engine down slightly, but I have never heard any mention on the list of
anyone doing this. I have no idea how much that would change things. So
here's the question: what does anyone know about this, and should it be
addressed (removing my baffling etc. to get to the right hand nut!)?
Thanks to those who know,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, fwf
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF... annual fly-in next Saturday at Scappoose!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer Line Silver Solder |
I silver solder band saw blades with just a propane torch. Works very well.
If you need a little more heat use MAP gas.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Primer Line Silver Solder
>
> >
> >I am ready to solder the AN800-2 globe unions to the 1/8 OD copper tubing
> >for the primers.
> >1) Where do I obtain small quantities of silver solder?
> >2) What is the melting point of 1)?
> >3) Can I use propane or do I need ox-acetylene?
> >
>
>
> I got my silver solder at the local welding supply shop.
>
> I used an acetylene (no oxygen) torch. Don't know if propane would get
hot
> enough, but I doubt it. The metal is red hot when it is just hot enough,
at
> least with the silver solder formulation I used (can't remember now what
it
> was. Just told the guy what I was going to do, and he told me what to
buy).
>
> Larry Pardue
> Carlsbad, NM
>
> RV-6 N441LP Flying
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer Line Silver Solder |
Since the primer lines are LOW pressure there is no need for anything but
ordinary solder. Silver solder is necessary for Injector lines as they are
HIGH pressure.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Primer Line Silver Solder
>
> >
> >I am ready to solder the AN800-2 globe unions to the 1/8 OD copper tubing
> >for the primers.
> >1) Where do I obtain small quantities of silver solder?
> >2) What is the melting point of 1)?
> >3) Can I use propane or do I need ox-acetylene?
> >
>
>
> I got my silver solder at the local welding supply shop.
>
> I used an acetylene (no oxygen) torch. Don't know if propane would get
hot
> enough, but I doubt it. The metal is red hot when it is just hot enough,
at
> least with the silver solder formulation I used (can't remember now what
it
> was. Just told the guy what I was going to do, and he told me what to
buy).
>
> Larry Pardue
> Carlsbad, NM
>
> RV-6 N441LP Flying
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 wing rivetting sequence |
>
>So- I've got all of my wing skeleton and skins primed, but I haven't yet
>started on my tanks (other than fitting the z-brackets to the main spar).
>I'd like to rivet on the leading edge assembly and the top skins before I
>start building the tanks- mostly so I can feel like I'm progressing, but
>also so I can get some of my clecoes back!
>
>Is there any problem doing this? I can't see any from studying the plans,
>but the manual has you build the tanks before riveting on the skins- and my
>other plan deviations have met with disaster. The only objection I can
>think of to riveting the entire wing together first is that with the bottom
>skins on, you couldn't use a countersink cage to countersink the nutplates
>holes that attach the bottom edge of the tank to the spar...
>
>Any advice would be appreciated!
>
>Matthew Gelber
Matthew,
The only problem I can think of is those nutplates. I'm not sure how
you plan to countersink them if you do the top skins first. You want
these countersinks to be well done, so I wouldn't mess around trying
to do them freehand.
My recommendation is to beg, borrow or buy some more clecoes. You
might find a local guy who has his project flying, or almost flying
who would loan you some clecoes.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Roseblade <davidagr(at)emirates.net.ae> |
| Subject: | RV-8 wing rivetting sequence |
Matthew,
I am building an RV6, so I am not sure if the same applies, but on a "6" if
you rivet the skins on before locating and drilling the tank screw locations
you may have difficulty fitting the anchor (plate nuts) for the tanks, on a
6 it is a question of grind to avoid spar strips, check , grind a bit more
then use squeezers to install - with the skins installed access is reduced.
Additionally I had to file a small amount off each wing and tank skin to
have a "snug" fit with minimum gap (1/64).
Hope above helps
Regards
David Roseblade
RV6A wings
Persian Gulf - Dubai
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer Line Silver Solder |
-----Original Message-----
From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Date: Sunday, June 18, 2000 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Primer Line Silver Solder
>
>Since the primer lines are LOW pressure there is no need for anything but
>ordinary solder. Silver solder is necessary for Injector lines as they are
>HIGH pressure.
>
>Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
>(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
>
Cy,
I was shocked to see this recommendation, but since you seem to know whereof
you speak, could you help me out of my state of shock by pointing out where
I'm wrong? Here's my reasoning:
1) Ordinary solder is 50/50 Tin/Lead, and has a solidus temp of 361F,
liquidus temp of 421F (Machinery's Handbook, 24th Ed, p 1250).
2)The cylinder head max temp of my O360A1A is 500F, and recommended
operating range is 150F to 400F (Lycoming Operator's Manual, A-section).
3) The AN800-2 globe unions are thermally intimate with the cylinder heads
via copper tubing and brass primer fittings.
4) Sooooo, it seems to me that the ordinary solder will be quite soft at
normal cylinder head operating temperatures, and fully melted within the
allowed head temperature range. Therefore I thought that ordinary solder
would by inappropriate in this application. Not so? I had not even
considered the question of the pressure in the lines because as you say, it
is low.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL C38
>
>>
>> >
>> >I am ready to solder the AN800-2 globe unions to the 1/8 OD copper
tubing
>> >for the primers.
>> >1) Where do I obtain small quantities of silver solder?
>> >2) What is the melting point of 1)?
>> >3) Can I use propane or do I need ox-acetylene?
>> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer Line Silver Solder |
Are the head temps you are using measured at the Spark plug or using the
probe wells? Since the primer port is so close to the intake, I would be
surprised that the temperature is much above 300 degrees. I know a Shyhawk
that I unbrazed the ball end off an injection line and then soft soldered it
on to the 320 engine primer line for the Hawk. This was over 10 years ago.
I believe it is still working. But if you are a belt and suspenders man,
silver solder it.
P.S. You can also use compression type fittings which are much cheaper.
National Air Parts Association handles them.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Primer Line Silver Solder
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, June 18, 2000 2:03 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Primer Line Silver Solder
>
>
> >
> >Since the primer lines are LOW pressure there is no need for anything but
> >ordinary solder. Silver solder is necessary for Injector lines as they
are
> >HIGH pressure.
> >
> >Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
> >(Click here to visit our Club site at
http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
> >
> Cy,
> I was shocked to see this recommendation, but since you seem to know
whereof
> you speak, could you help me out of my state of shock by pointing out
where
> I'm wrong? Here's my reasoning:
> 1) Ordinary solder is 50/50 Tin/Lead, and has a solidus temp of 361F,
> liquidus temp of 421F (Machinery's Handbook, 24th Ed, p 1250).
> 2)The cylinder head max temp of my O360A1A is 500F, and recommended
> operating range is 150F to 400F (Lycoming Operator's Manual, A-section).
> 3) The AN800-2 globe unions are thermally intimate with the cylinder heads
> via copper tubing and brass primer fittings.
> 4) Sooooo, it seems to me that the ordinary solder will be quite soft at
> normal cylinder head operating temperatures, and fully melted within the
> allowed head temperature range. Therefore I thought that ordinary solder
> would by inappropriate in this application. Not so? I had not even
> considered the question of the pressure in the lines because as you say,
it
> is low.
>
> Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
> Hampshire, IL C38
> >
> >>
>
> >> >
> >> >I am ready to solder the AN800-2 globe unions to the 1/8 OD copper
> tubing
> >> >for the primers.
> >> >1) Where do I obtain small quantities of silver solder?
> >> >2) What is the melting point of 1)?
> >> >3) Can I use propane or do I need ox-acetylene?
> >> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer Line Silver Solder |
What happens to the solder temperatures when you use the more common 60/40
alloy. Does the solidus temperature go up? As I remember the eutectic point
was very low at a certain ratio as pure lead melts at 621 Degree F?
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Primer Line Silver Solder
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, June 18, 2000 2:03 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Primer Line Silver Solder
>
>
> >
> >Since the primer lines are LOW pressure there is no need for anything but
> >ordinary solder. Silver solder is necessary for Injector lines as they
are
> >HIGH pressure.
> >
> >Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
> >(Click here to visit our Club site at
http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
> >
> Cy,
> I was shocked to see this recommendation, but since you seem to know
whereof
> you speak, could you help me out of my state of shock by pointing out
where
> I'm wrong? Here's my reasoning:
> 1) Ordinary solder is 50/50 Tin/Lead, and has a solidus temp of 361F,
> liquidus temp of 421F (Machinery's Handbook, 24th Ed, p 1250).
> 2)The cylinder head max temp of my O360A1A is 500F, and recommended
> operating range is 150F to 400F (Lycoming Operator's Manual, A-section).
> 3) The AN800-2 globe unions are thermally intimate with the cylinder heads
> via copper tubing and brass primer fittings.
> 4) Sooooo, it seems to me that the ordinary solder will be quite soft at
> normal cylinder head operating temperatures, and fully melted within the
> allowed head temperature range. Therefore I thought that ordinary solder
> would by inappropriate in this application. Not so? I had not even
> considered the question of the pressure in the lines because as you say,
it
> is low.
>
> Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
> Hampshire, IL C38
> >
> >>
>
> >> >
> >> >I am ready to solder the AN800-2 globe unions to the 1/8 OD copper
> tubing
> >> >for the primers.
> >> >1) Where do I obtain small quantities of silver solder?
> >> >2) What is the melting point of 1)?
> >> >3) Can I use propane or do I need ox-acetylene?
> >> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harvey Sigmon" <flyhars(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Magneto gears |
Don: I am rebuilding a set of Bendix Mags -20 and 21 for my RV-6. I might
have one gear left over, I will check tomorrow at the airport. I will let
you know off line if I will be able to help.
Harvey
----- Original Message -----
From: <KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Magneto gears
>
> In a message dated 6/17/00 5:12:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Aero7ac(at)AOL.COM
> writes:
>
> << Does anyone have magneto gears they want to sell? Looking for Lycoming
> part
> numbers 72495 and 61163. If so, send a note to nowakod(at)us.ibm.com.
> These gears are for my 0-320-B2C in my -6. I understand that Lycoming
now
> makes one gear that will cover both of the above part numbers...that
part
> number is 68C19622. Any insight on a good place to get these would also
be
> appreciated...don >>
>
> Try Jeff Rose at Electroair. He usually carries them, or knows where to
get
> 'em. Also, most aircraft salvage places (Wentworth, etc) will have them.
> Prices are usually $60 - $100 ea..
>
> KB
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tip up canopy kit to slider conversion???? |
If the canopy has not been started then I should think it would be a simple
chore of ordering all the correct parts for the slider and tossing the tip up
parts in the scrap bin. If the canopy is done we are talking major surgery here
but it can be done.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A N99PZ
lucky macy wrote:
>
> Can a 6A tip up canopy QUICK BUILD kit be converted to a slider easily or
> are we talking some surgery here? (the archive doesn't want to load up this
> morning).
>
> TIA,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Dumb and Dumber |
that is excellent advise. LOOK b 4 u drill!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer Line Silver Solder |
For those who don't know what the word EUTECTIC means, I found this at
http://dictionary.com I sure didn't
eutectic (yoo-tektik)
adj.
1.Of, relating to, or formed at the lowest possible temperature of
solidification for any
mixture of specified constituents. Used especially of an alloy whose
melting point is lower
than that of any other alloy composed of the same constituents in
different proportions.
2.Exhibiting the constitution or properties of such a solid.
n.
1.A eutectic mixture, solution, or alloy.
2.The eutectic temperature.
[From Greek eutktos, easily melted: eu-, eu- + tktos, melted (from tkein, to
melt).]
Cy Galley wrote:
>
> What happens to the solder temperatures when you use the more common 60/40
> alloy. Does the solidus temperature go up? As I remember the eutectic point
> was very low at a certain ratio as pure lead melts at 621 Degree F?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer Line Silver Solder |
I would have added the melting point of Tin as well as lead. Both melt well
above 500 degrees F but when alloyed, the melting temp drops. The minimum
temp is the eutectic point. It happens with a certain ratio of the two
metals. Change the percentages and the melting temp goes back up. I am
almost certain that the minimum or eutectic point is not at the 50/50 mix.
The normal mix for electronics is 60/40.
BTW, I am glad my memory hasn't really gone away. It has been 50 years
since I used that word in earnest!!!
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Primer Line Silver Solder
>
> For those who don't know what the word EUTECTIC means, I found this at
> http://dictionary.com I sure didn't
>
> eutectic (yoo-tektik)
> adj.
>
> 1.Of, relating to, or formed at the lowest possible temperature
of
> solidification for any
> mixture of specified constituents. Used especially of an alloy
whose
> melting point is lower
> than that of any other alloy composed of the same constituents
in
> different proportions.
> 2.Exhibiting the constitution or properties of such a solid.
>
> n.
>
> 1.A eutectic mixture, solution, or alloy.
> 2.The eutectic temperature.
>
>
> [From Greek eutktos, easily melted: eu-, eu- + tktos, melted (from
tkein, to
> melt).]
>
> Cy Galley wrote:
>
> >
> > What happens to the solder temperatures when you use the more common
60/40
> > alloy. Does the solidus temperature go up? As I remember the eutectic
point
> > was very low at a certain ratio as pure lead melts at 621 Degree F?
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
| Subject: | Re: tip up canopy kit to slider conversion???? |
| From: | Denis Walsh <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net> |
on 6/18/00 16:42, Gary Zilik at zilik(at)bewellnet.com wrote:
>
> If the canopy has not been started then I should think it would be a simple
> chore of ordering all the correct parts for the slider and tossing the tip up
> parts in the scrap bin. If the canopy is done we are talking major surgery
> here
> but it can be done.
>
> Gary Zilik
> RV-6A N99PZ
>
> lucky macy wrote:
>
>>
>> Can a 6A tip up canopy QUICK BUILD kit be converted to a slider easily or
>> are we talking some surgery here? (the archive doesn't want to load up this
>> morning).
>>
>> TIA,
>
My recollection is that the quick build my hangar mate got did not have any
canopy work completed; the canopy parts come with the finish kit. Again my
memory dims but don't recall that any of the "finish kit" work was done. The
surgery required would entail swapping out the upper fuselage ribs between
the panel and the firewall and the bulkhead, which is different. I would
estimate the added time to be a week or so. The bigger issue would be
getting trade in credit for the tip up parts.
If you have a strong preference for the slider, I would go for it. the
level of effort at this stage is very minor in the overall scheme of things.
Both types of canopy have there strong advocates, although not as emotional
an issue as the type of undercarriage. Personally I think they are both
marvelous canopies, head and shoulders above all competition. A real strong
point of the design.
......But I love my slider :+)
>
--
Denis L.(Bum) Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Tour 2000 |
Great travelogue, Larry! I like it!
I have forwarded the URL to my "Westward Ho!" cohorts. I think I see
another trip forming. :-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, fresh engine, ready to travel again)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiway.net/~sbuc/journal
=======================
Larry Pardue wrote:
>
>
> Listers:
>
> Well I blew all my server space on this deal, but Mountain Tour 2000, my
> home movies of an RV trip last week, are more or less up. Corrections have
> not been made yet.
>
> You understand this deal is merely functional, not pretty like Sam
> Buchanan's web stuff.
>
>
> Larry Pardue
> Carlsbad, NM
>
> RV-6 N441LP Flying
> http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Arthur Glaser <airplane(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer Line Silver Solder |
I believe the eutetic mixture is 63-37 not 60/40.
Cy Galley wrote:
>
> I would have added the melting point of Tin as well as lead. Both melt well
> above 500 degrees F but when alloyed, the melting temp drops. The minimum
> temp is the eutectic point. It happens with a certain ratio of the two
> metals. Change the percentages and the melting temp goes back up. I am
> almost certain that the minimum or eutectic point is not at the 50/50 mix.
> The normal mix for electronics is 60/40.
>
> BTW, I am glad my memory hasn't really gone away. It has been 50 years
> since I used that word in earnest!!!
>
> Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
> (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 5:54 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Primer Line Silver Solder
>
> >
> > For those who don't know what the word EUTECTIC means, I found this at
> > http://dictionary.com I sure didn't
> >
> > eutectic (yoo-tektik)
> > adj.
> >
> > 1.Of, relating to, or formed at the lowest possible temperature
> of
> > solidification for any
> > mixture of specified constituents. Used especially of an alloy
> whose
> > melting point is lower
> > than that of any other alloy composed of the same constituents
> in
> > different proportions.
> > 2.Exhibiting the constitution or properties of such a solid.
> >
> > n.
> >
> > 1.A eutectic mixture, solution, or alloy.
> > 2.The eutectic temperature.
> >
> >
> > [From Greek eutktos, easily melted: eu-, eu- + tktos, melted (from
> tkein, to
> > melt).]
> >
> > Cy Galley wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > What happens to the solder temperatures when you use the more common
> 60/40
> > > alloy. Does the solidus temperature go up? As I remember the eutectic
> point
> > > was very low at a certain ratio as pure lead melts at 621 Degree F?
> > >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Tour 2000 |
>
>Great travelogue, Larry! I like it!
>
>I have forwarded the URL to my "Westward Ho!" cohorts. I think I see
>another trip forming. :-)
>
>Sam Buchanan (RV-6, fresh engine, ready to travel again)
>"The RV Journal" http://home.hiway.net/~sbuc/journal
>
Thank you Sam,
And I really am sorry I don't know how to do as nice a web job as you. I
know how I want it to look, but I don't have the knowledge or the software
or something.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRawls3896(at)AOL.COM |
You would think by the time you had gotten half way through the wing's
that you would know something about dimpling. The problem is that after
dimpling the leading edge skin and the ribs the 3/32 cleco's won't hold, they
pull through. Do I need to put scrap pieces of aluminum with a number 40 hole
drilled in them to put on the back side to have some grip? What else is there
to try?
Mike in Texas (skinning the wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harvey Sigmon" <flyhars(at)earthlink.net> |
Mike maybe the clecos you are using do not have enough grip length. you
might need some deeper ones about 1/2 " long to go through all the skin
thickness.
Harv
> [Original Message]
> From: <MRawls3896(at)AOL.COM>
> To:
> Date: 6/18/00 9:37:30 PM
> Subject: RV-List: What size Cleco
>
>
> You would think by the time you had gotten half way through the
wing's
> that you would know something about dimpling. The problem is that after
> dimpling the leading edge skin and the ribs the 3/32 cleco's won't hold,
they
> pull through. Do I need to put scrap pieces of aluminum with a number 40
hole
> drilled in them to put on the back side to have some grip? What else is
there
> to try?
>
> Mike in Texas (skinning the wings)
>
>
>
>
>
--- Harvey Sigmon
--- flyhars(at)earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dustin Norlund" <dustin_norlund(at)geotec.net> |
I am almost ready to get N555DN into the air and will not need the following
parts I have purchased. The first email for asking price of highest offer
will get the item. All items are in new condition and have only been
unpacked, looked at, then put on a shelf.
1. VANS Gascolator with mounting bracket. GAS-3 and Bracket. $60.00
2. Aircraft Spruce Gascolator - The gold one like used on piper with
mounting bracket. $60.00
3. Trim tab skin and trim tab spar. $10.00
.-.
/ \ .-. .-.
/ \ / \ .-. _ .-. / \
/-Dustin Norlund------------/---\--/--\------/------\-
\ / \ / `-' `-' \ /
\ / `-' `-'
`-'
KD5JXZ
PPSEL
RV6 N555DN
www.555dn.20m.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pat_hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What size Cleco |
Mike:
You need some of those .50 cal clecos...just kidding.
Seriously, some clecos are sturdier than others, but what you can do is use
# 41 drill bits. Should make a difference. Don't want to start another
thread on 40 vs. 41, but to each his or her own.
Pat Hatch
RV-4 N17PH @ VRB
RV-6, Fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: <MRawls3896(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 9:35 PM
Subject: RV-List: What size Cleco
>
> You would think by the time you had gotten half way through the wing's
> that you would know something about dimpling. The problem is that after
> dimpling the leading edge skin and the ribs the 3/32 cleco's won't hold,
they
> pull through. Do I need to put scrap pieces of aluminum with a number 40
hole
> drilled in them to put on the back side to have some grip? What else is
there
> to try?
>
> Mike in Texas (skinning the wings)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | re: Primer Line Silver Solder |
> I am ready to solder the AN800-2 globe unions to the 1/8 OD copper
tubing
> for the primers. 1) Where do I obtain small quantities of silver
solder?
> 2) What is the melting point of 1)? 3) Can I use propane or do I need
> ox-acetylene?
Dennis,
I bought mine at McMaster-Carr, along with the flux.
The solder is .005 x 1/2" strip, and McMaster Carr got it from Prince &
Izant Co, Cleveland OH, 216-362-7000. The label says ".005 x 1/2" SA
50 STRIP X 1 T.O. COIL". (I believe the solder was McMaster Carr
part number 7617A14, but I'm not 100% sure. 7617A14 lists for about
$19, and has a melting point of 1160F.) I used Superior Silver Solder
Flux, #601, also from McMaster Carr.
I was able to melt it with a propane torch, but just barely. I used it for
the primer lines, and for making restrictor fittings for oil pressure and
fuel pressure. It took a lot of propane torch heating, but eventually
melted.
Tim Lewis
******
Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Harris" <johnh(at)bellsouth.net> |
I am contemplating a spam-can purchase with a partner for staying current
while we build our RV's.
I called Avemco for a comparison quote, 47 Stinson (Taildragger) vs. '61
C-172. Even though the Stinson is worth less ($17,000 vs. $26,000), full
coverage with $500 deductible is $1,600 for Stinson and $960 for Cessna.
Both pilots are 200 hr, PPSEL, only one of us has 25 hrs taildragger time.
At least Avemco has a large differential.
John Harris
RV9A N922JH (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 wing rivetting sequence |
>So- I've got all of my wing skeleton and skins primed, but I haven't yet
>started on my tanks (other than fitting the z-brackets to the main spar).
>I'd like to rivet on the leading edge assembly and the top skins before I
>start building the tanks- mostly so I can feel like I'm progressing, but
>also so I can get some of my clecoes back!
I drilled the tank skins to the ribs before riviting on the bottom main
skins. Haven't had any problems yet. Did countersink the bottom spar
screw holes with bottom skins removed. Finished both wings, now going
back and riviting the tanks together. Working fine so far.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
RV-8 80091 Riviting fuel tanks
1/5 Starduster II N23UT flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tip up canopy kit to slider conversion???? |
I am at home with a dull memory but I have a "QuickBuild" RV6A Slider and am
working with a friend on a RV6 Tip-Up. So we have both in the hangar and I
could take a look. But ....
An earlier post is correct that there is no canopy work done in the QB. THe
aft top (forward) fuselage skin has to be done along with the track etc. So
the back section (AS I RECALL) is not a problem.
The ribs to which the panel attaches **ARE** in already (cannot remmber the
part numbers). I cannot remember if this is a problem. Would have to take
some measurements to see if the panel position changes for the tip up vs the
slider. Also, this would *potentially* impact where the roll bar goes.
Again, this is from memory and I may be WRONG. If I get a chance, I will try
to get some measurements tommorrow.
A quick call or email to Van's is probably best though (you knew that ;-) )
James
----- Original Message -----
From: "Denis Walsh" <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: tip up canopy kit to slider conversion????
>
> on 6/18/00 16:42, Gary Zilik at zilik(at)bewellnet.com wrote:
>
> >
> > If the canopy has not been started then I should think it would be a
simple
> > chore of ordering all the correct parts for the slider and tossing the
tip up
> > parts in the scrap bin. If the canopy is done we are talking major
surgery
> > here
> > but it can be done.
> >
> > Gary Zilik
> > RV-6A N99PZ
> >
> > lucky macy wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Can a 6A tip up canopy QUICK BUILD kit be converted to a slider easily
or
> >> are we talking some surgery here? (the archive doesn't want to load up
this
> >> morning).
> >>
> >> TIA,
> >
>
> My recollection is that the quick build my hangar mate got did not have
any
> canopy work completed; the canopy parts come with the finish kit. Again
my
> memory dims but don't recall that any of the "finish kit" work was done.
The
> surgery required would entail swapping out the upper fuselage ribs between
> the panel and the firewall and the bulkhead, which is different. I would
> estimate the added time to be a week or so. The bigger issue would be
> getting trade in credit for the tip up parts.
>
> If you have a strong preference for the slider, I would go for it. the
> level of effort at this stage is very minor in the overall scheme of
things.
>
> Both types of canopy have there strong advocates, although not as
emotional
> an issue as the type of undercarriage. Personally I think they are both
> marvelous canopies, head and shoulders above all competition. A real
strong
> point of the design.
>
> ......But I love my slider :+)
> >
>
> --
> Denis L.(Bum) Walsh
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV8DRIVER(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: .30 cal or .50 cal? (LONG answer) |
Its about time we had something interesting on this list!
Andy Johnson, starting fuselage of the fighter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | CDI depth needed |
Glenn,
I've got an Mid-Continent CDI w/ GS (MD200-306) and the case is 4 5/8" deep.
There's a DB25 connector which will need clearance for the cable connector.
It's centered horizontally about a quarter of the way from the top.
Don't know if your canopy deck (F-621) is the same as the slider, but I put
my CDI in the lower left and cut a notch out of the deck for clearance. I'm
also cutting it away on the right side for the radio stack. I'm going to add
some reinforcing angles just to make me feel better. Your strength
requirements on the tip-up may be more critical.
Regards,
Greg Young
RV-6 N6GY Houston (DWH) wiring & systems
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn & Judi
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 9:44 PM
Subject: RV-List: CDI depth needed
Hi,
Can someone please tell me the depth of a Mid-Continent CDI for a GPS
receiver?
Thanks,
Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer Line Silver Solder |
>> I'm wrong? Here's my reasoning:
>> 1) Ordinary solder is 50/50 Tin/Lead, and has a solidus temp of 361F,
>> liquidus temp of 421F (Machinery's Handbook, 24th Ed, p 1250).
>> 2)The cylinder head max temp of my O360A1A is 500F, and recommended
>> operating range is 150F to 400F (Lycoming Operator's Manual, A-section).
>> 3) The AN800-2 globe unions are thermally intimate with the cylinder heads
>> via copper tubing and brass primer fittings.
>> 4) Sooooo, it seems to me that the ordinary solder will be quite soft at
>> normal cylinder head operating temperatures, and fully melted within the
>> allowed head temperature range. Therefore I thought that ordinary solder
>> would by inappropriate in this application. Not so? I had not even
>> considered the question of the pressure in the lines because as you say,
>it
>> is low.
>>
>> Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
>> Hampshire, IL C38
>> >
>> >>
>>
>> >> >
>> >> >I am ready to solder the AN800-2 globe unions to the 1/8 OD copper
>> tubing
>> >> >for the primers.
>> >> >1) Where do I obtain small quantities of silver solder?
>> >> >2) What is the melting point of 1)?
>> >> >3) Can I use propane or do I need ox-acetylene?
"Silver Solder" comes in many different concoctions. The
first alloy of silver solder I ran across was at Hughes
in Tucson about 38 years ago . . . a 60% tin, 38% lead,
2% silver alloy was used there to make joints on ceramic
terminal strips that had silver coated notches in the ceramic
to which wires were soldered. If the solder didn't have some
silver in it, the liquid solder would disolve the silver
on the ceramic and break the bond. This solder melted at
a few tens of degress more than ordinary solder.
Other alloys have no tin or lead but other mixtures depending
on the materials to be joined, strength of the joint and
temperatures to which the joint will be exposed. A quick
search of the web produced a few exemplar variations
on the theme of "silver solder".
http://backup.kitco.com/product.solder.html
http://www.kappalloy.com/silver.html
http://www.lakeshore.com/catalog/products/temperature/accessories/solder/cad
free.html
http://www.kembla.com.au/brazingmanl.html
A visit to your local welding supply store should
get you some assitance in acquiring a suitable
alloy and flux to go with it. Also, refridgeration
supply stores will have solders suited to brass
and coppy alloy joining that melts at less than
oxy/acet temps. I purchased a material locally that
flows nicely at a dull red heat with a hardware
store variety propane torch.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 6/18/2000 9:03:28 PM Central Daylight Time,
johnh(at)bellsouth.net writes:
<< I am contemplating a spam-can purchase with a partner for staying current
while we build our RV's.
I called Avemco for a comparison quote, 47 Stinson (Taildragger) vs. '61
C-172. Even though the Stinson is worth less ($17,000 vs. $26,000), full
coverage with $500 deductible is $1,600 for Stinson and $960 for Cessna.
Both pilots are 200 hr, PPSEL, only one of us has 25 hrs taildragger time.
At least Avemco has a large differential.
John Harris
RV9A N922JH (reserved) >>
As an insurance agent I can tell you that the price for a tail dragger will
go down as you build tail wheel time. But a tri gear will always be about 5%
to 10 % cheaper to insure. The other thing though is yout quote on the 172
is outrageous. I just wrote insurance for a pilot in a 69 172 worth 35,000
with 240 hours for 545 dollars a year with a 250 ded and 1 million liability.
Pays to shop around.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: What size Cleco |
Mike,
Another lister asked you to take a good look at your dimple dies. I second
the notion because your holes are too big. If they are OK then there might
be different things happening.
When you dimpled the ribs did you squeeze them or hammer them in the
C-Frame? I use an Avery squeezer with a 4 inch throat.
When you use the C-Frame on the skins, how big of a hammer do you use? Is it
made of metal, wood or plastic? How hard do you hit? I use a plastic mallet
and I don't smoke it very hard.
Do you drill with #40's or #41's? My vote is for 41's.
Is your drill in good shape? (a wobbly one might be making big holes).
Regards,
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
> You would think by the time you had gotten half way through the wing's
> that you would know something about dimpling. The problem is that after
> dimpling the leading edge skin and the ribs the 3/32 cleco's won't hold,
they
> pull through. Do I need to put scrap pieces of aluminum with a number 40
hole
> drilled in them to put on the back side to have some grip? What else is
there
> to try?
>
> Mike in Texas (skinning the wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CDI depth needed |
Thanks for the help,
It looks like I will put the CDI upper left on the panel just barely clear of
the canopy frame. It should be a nice placement, plus it will give me as much
depth as I could possibly need.
Thanks again,
Glenn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken" <kgray(at)tca.net> |
Check the newest AIM, it has the info you need.
Ken Gray
RV6 flying since 1996 550 hours, just now painting it!
http://pages.tca.net/kgray
----- Original Message -----
From: Vince Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 9:56 AM
Subject: RV-List: GPS
>
> I heard recently that a NOTAM was issued in June of 1998 that allows IFR
> approved GPS units to be used to identify any DME fix or ADF/LOM. I did a
> search of the FAR's and can find no reference. Does anyone know if an IFR
> approved GPS can be used is such a manner. I would really like to read it
> for myself if you can point me in the right direction. Also, does the
> statement only apply to approach approved units or can an enroute/terminal
> area approved unit like the Apollo GX-65 be used to identify DME fixes?
>
> Just starting to think about avionics and panels and such. Where can I
> find information detailing what has to be done to have a legal
installation
> in an experimental? How much can I do and how much HAS to be farmed out?
> I keep having nightmares about spending huge amounts of time and money
> only to have an inspector waltz in, wave a list of requirements that I've
> never seen and tell me everything I've done is unacceptable.
>
> Vince
> RV-8A
> Planning ahead
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Brake/Rudder Problem Solved |
To all fellow listers who offered me advice on my problem with applying
rudder and brake at the same time, thank you. I made three changes and
solved the problem.
One, I removed about one inch from the rudder cable attach links that
connect the cables to the pedals. This moved the bottom of the pedals aft
and gives me more ankle room.
Two, I installed 5/8" ID rubber tubing to the bottom cross members. This
gives my foot a better feel for the bottom of the pedal.
Three, I modified my technique a little. In learning to fly a Citabria, I
learned that I needed keep my feet up off of the floor board so that I could
stay active on the rudders. I took the advice of others and planted my heel
on the floor board of the RV-6 with the balls of my feet on the rubber cross
member. This worked just fine as the rudder on my RV is more effective more
quickly than the Citabria.
I waited nearly all week to test out my solution. We've had a stationary
front sitting over the Ohio Valley and the weather has been dreadful. I
thought I had patience when I was building. I'm just now beginning to learn
the meaning of the word.
Saturday didn't look great, but good enough. I get so excited when I pull
the airplane from the hanger and I know I'm going flying. I get her all
ready, close down the hanger, and climb up on the wing as if I was stepping
into my own personal F6F Hellcat on the deck of the Enterprise. Go through
the checklist and turn the key to elicit that throaty roar from the exhaust.
One of the things I love most is the sliding canopy. Taxiing out, the other
airport patrons always turn to look.
Takeoff roll was much smoother and a non-event. Can't believe the
difference it makes and just how dangerous it was dragging the brakes like I
was. Glad that problem has been solved. Now I only wish I'd mounted that
CD player somewhere other than the side of the cabin. The vibration makes
it so jumpy that I can't use it.
Thanks to all on the list for helping out. It makes the problem solving
much easier and me much safer. Can't wait to post a travelogue like Larry
Pardue. Great story and great pictures. Man I love this airplane.
Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 (5.5 hours)
Indianapolis (UMP)
http://members.iquest.net/~rpflanze/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nancy and Walter Shipley" <wshipley(at)esper.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Training In Knoxville |
John, I'm in the Knoxville area and may be interested in flying with you.
I'm currently building an 8A, and obviously I would prefer getting a
checkout in a 8A, but there are very few of them flying, making a checkout
almost impossible.
Some questions I have for you are:
- do you feel a checkout in a 6 would be beneficial in learning to fly
the 8A?
- does your 6 have a constant speed prop? My 8A will have a fixed pitch,
and I don't have a complex rating.
- what are your hourly rates?
I'm a fairly low time pilot (300 hrs) with the usual Cessna/Piper
background, although I did own a two seat tandem AC (Varga) which I sold
about two years ago. No flying time since then. I also was checked out in a
Piper cub several years ago, so I do have just a bit of taildragger time.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Walt Shipley
RV8A (finish)
(865) 458-9959
----------
> From: Rv6plt(at)cs.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: RV Training In Knoxville
> Date: Saturday, June 17, 2000 8:24 AM
>
>
> I will be in Knoxville, Tn next weekend (24 & 25 June) with my RV6. If
anyone
> in that area needs training, contact me off-list.
>
> John Henley, CFII, N6LD 350 Hrs
> 850-609-3175
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 8 inch Wing Spar Attach ?? |
BUT, here's the other *perception* question. The 8's spars only protrude
into the fuselage about 8 inches as opposed to the 4 and 6 which have spars
which span the full with of the fuselage. I don't design airplanes and won't
pretend my comments mean diddly squat. It's probably GA standard for the
spars to only go through the fuse a bit like the 8's do but then most GA
aren't doing aerobatics.
For me, there's a psychological comfort in knowing the 4 and 6 wing spars
are longer and have more surface attachment area inside the fuse. I have
seen a couple of modern purpose built acro wings and they look liked the
spars carried all the way through the fuse too. Any thoughts
I know this is a exercise in dead horse beating but this poster brings up a good
point.
Any thoughts from our knowledgable group ?????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Well Wishes - Was: What ADIZ corridor? |
--- Gummos wrote:
> P.S. Would all you Lister's keep some kind thoughts for a fellow
> builder?
> Jack "Kabong" Starn is my building partner and friend and he is has
> Cancer.
> This Wed he will have his voice box removed. Hopefully, this will
> control
> the big "C". However, he will have a long recovery and will have to
> learn
> to talk again. I am sure that a lot of good thoughts can't hurt.
> THANKS
> AGAIN.
Prayers and thoughts from Central Texas.
Someone out there in SoCal ought to make sure Jack (Tom too!) gets some
RV time after he recovers. Incentive to get back to building!
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)ispchannel.com> |
| Subject: | Video camera mount |
Greetings,
I'm looking for a good way to mount my camcorder to the RV-8, and wondered
if anyone can save me some effort (or money). My plan is to mount it to the
steel bar that forms the rear seatback support, to the right of the seat,
looking forward over my shoulder. After some searching, I found what
appears to be a good mount, but it's $95, and I wanted to see if anyone
knows of any other alternatives before I spend the money. Here's a link to
the mount I found: http://www.ioportracing.com/video.htm
Thanks,
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, 80587 (flying)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Video camera mount |
I am very happy with my RAM-MOUNT attached to my roll over bar on my RV-4. It
costs 32$ and I got it at the boat store. I have seen the RAM folks at Oshgosh
& they gave a WEB site. Very good qualitity items. They make all kinds of
mounts & the most popular are the hand-held radio mounts......
rv8(at)ispchannel.com on 06/19/2000 10:58:25 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Video camera mount
Greetings,
I'm looking for a good way to mount my camcorder to the RV-8, and wondered
if anyone can save me some effort (or money). My plan is to mount it to the
steel bar that forms the rear seatback support, to the right of the seat,
looking forward over my shoulder. After some searching, I found what
appears to be a good mount, but it's $95, and I wanted to see if anyone
knows of any other alternatives before I spend the money. Here's a link to
the mount I found: http://www.ioportracing.com/video.htm
Thanks,
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, 80587 (flying)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine level w/longerons? |
> About six months ago at a local builder's
> group meeting at my house Bill Benedict was showing another builder how
the
> top of the engine should be level with the main longerons.
Randy,
I don't even remember Bill talking about this. Hmm... At any rate, it seems
to me there are too many variables to be able to set this with any
confidence. #1 is the weight of the prop, but the main thing is that the
mounts will probably sag between 1/16" and 3/16" over time. So it seems to
me you could do more harm than good at this point.
I've never heard of this anywhere else, but it sounds to me like one of
those things, like the H-stab incidence, that you could either obsess about
and maybe make a difference, or not and go flying and never know the
difference even if there is one.
Randall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Video camera mount |
In racing, many of us carry cameras to help critique our driving later.
There are mounts available at
http://www.ioportracing.com/welcomeframes.htm
http://www.ogracing.com/ogshell/loadpage.pl?id+catroll.html
And many others, but all in the same price range you mentioned. Several of
us have simply gone to Walmart and bought camera tripods ($30). Its then
fairly simple to remove the mount, and secure it to the roll cage...or
wherever you'd like. I do suggest a safety lanyard on the camera .....
else ye be smited by said camera while braking into turn one when ye forget
to turn the little knob tight. Uh....well, so I'm told :-)
Bill
-4 wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)ispchannel.com>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 10:58 AM
Subject: RV-List: Video camera mount
>
> Greetings,
>
> I'm looking for a good way to mount my camcorder to the RV-8, and wondered
> if anyone can save me some effort (or money). My plan is to mount it to
the
> steel bar that forms the rear seatback support, to the right of the seat,
> looking forward over my shoulder. After some searching, I found what
> appears to be a good mount, but it's $95, and I wanted to see if anyone
> knows of any other alternatives before I spend the money. Here's a link
to
> the mount I found: http://www.ioportracing.com/video.htm
>
> Thanks,
> Russell Duffy
> Navarre, FL
> RV-8, 80587 (flying)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
Vince,
I haven't seen the memo/notice about the GPS yet but I will see if I can
find it and let you know.
As far as the requirements for IFR look at FAR 91.205(d) for a full list of
what is required.
I am in the very final stages on my 8A and while the panel becomes very full
it is doable.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
Engine start within two weeks.....I hope
>From: Vince Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'RV List'"
>Subject: RV-List: GPS
>Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 10:56:40 -0400
>
>
>I heard recently that a NOTAM was issued in June of 1998 that allows IFR
>approved GPS units to be used to identify any DME fix or ADF/LOM. I did a
>search of the FAR's and can find no reference. Does anyone know if an IFR
>approved GPS can be used is such a manner. I would really like to read it
>for myself if you can point me in the right direction. Also, does the
>statement only apply to approach approved units or can an enroute/terminal
>area approved unit like the Apollo GX-65 be used to identify DME fixes?
>
>Just starting to think about avionics and panels and such. Where can I
>find information detailing what has to be done to have a legal installation
>in an experimental? How much can I do and how much HAS to be farmed out?
> I keep having nightmares about spending huge amounts of time and money
>only to have an inspector waltz in, wave a list of requirements that I've
>never seen and tell me everything I've done is unacceptable.
>
>Vince
>RV-8A
>Planning ahead
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRawls3896(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: What size Cleco |
The cleco's are brand new, I have plenty of grip length. I think I will
take a look at ordering a new set of dimples but the one I'm using now has
only been used on the tail kit and or the correct size. I have had problems
with this in the past but on flat surface they stay just fine. On the leading
edge though the spring effect pulls them out.
Oedering a new set of dimples (by the way the one I have now were from
Avery)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)ispchannel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Video camera mount |
Wow, I obviously have insufficient RAM for this task :-)
Thanks a bunch to everyone for the RAM mount info. I just downloaded their
catalog and am amazed at how cool these things are. Can't wait to get to
the local boat place and see what they have. Of course now my wife will
come home and find everything we own mounted to something :-)
Very neat gizmos- made my day. Thanks,
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, 80587 (flying)
> I am very happy with my RAM-MOUNT attached to my roll over bar on my
RV-4. It
> costs 32$ and I got it at the boat store. I have seen the RAM folks at
Oshgosh
> & they gave a WEB site. Very good qualitity items. They make all kinds of
> mounts & the most popular are the hand-held radio mounts......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
Vince,
Check out a current copy of the Airman's Info Manual, para 1-1-21. It has
all the latest info.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
>From: Vince Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'RV List'"
>Subject: RV-List: GPS
>Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 10:56:40 -0400
>
>
>I heard recently that a NOTAM was issued in June of 1998 that allows IFR
>approved GPS units to be used to identify any DME fix or ADF/LOM. I did a
>search of the FAR's and can find no reference. Does anyone know if an IFR
>approved GPS can be used is such a manner. I would really like to read it
>for myself if you can point me in the right direction. Also, does the
>statement only apply to approach approved units or can an enroute/terminal
>area approved unit like the Apollo GX-65 be used to identify DME fixes?
>
>Just starting to think about avionics and panels and such. Where can I
>find information detailing what has to be done to have a legal installation
>in an experimental? How much can I do and how much HAS to be farmed out?
> I keep having nightmares about spending huge amounts of time and money
>only to have an inspector waltz in, wave a list of requirements that I've
>never seen and tell me everything I've done is unacceptable.
>
>Vince
>RV-8A
>Planning ahead
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 8 inch Wing Spar Attach ?? |
Take one look at the size and number of bolts used along with the size of
the mounting stock in the spar box, add that to the close tolerance for
those mounting bolt holes and I don't think there is any question about the
strength. I have looked at several aircraft with the wings mounted in the
same fashion that are not near as strong as Van's.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
Not worried
>From: pcondon(at)csc.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 8 inch Wing Spar Attach ??
>Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 09:36:14 -0400
>
>
>BUT, here's the other *perception* question. The 8's spars only protrude
>into the fuselage about 8 inches as opposed to the 4 and 6 which have spars
>which span the full with of the fuselage. I don't design airplanes and
>won't
>pretend my comments mean diddly squat. It's probably GA standard for the
>spars to only go through the fuse a bit like the 8's do but then most GA
>aren't doing aerobatics.
>
>For me, there's a psychological comfort in knowing the 4 and 6 wing spars
>are longer and have more surface attachment area inside the fuse. I have
>seen a couple of modern purpose built acro wings and they look liked the
>spars carried all the way through the fuse too. Any thoughts
>
>
>I know this is a exercise in dead horse beating but this poster brings up a
>good
>point.
>Any thoughts from our knowledgable group ?????
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barstad, Are" <BarstadA(at)bis.adp.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6 prepunched HS skins for sale |
I recently decided to build an RV-8 as opposed to the RV-6.
I no longer need my HS skins. If someone on the list have an 'accident' with
their skin(s), you can get them from me cheap at US$30 each. Part number is
HS-601-PP. They still have the vinyl coating on them.
Are
RV-8
C-GQRV (reserved) - building stiffeners AGAIN for an .020 rudder and
elevators as opposed to the .016.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
Listers:
Just got my insurance policy from Scott Smith. Enclosed was the exact
item I have been meaning to patent and make a million dollars on, a
collapsable paper oil funnel. Is this a reddily available item I have
just never seen?
I have been using rolled up manilla. The one funnel a year from Scott is
not enough.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Nichols <snichols(at)stateengineering.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 STUFF FOR SALE (WINGS & TAIL etc.) |
Listers,
It is with mixed emotions that I post the following:
Rv-4 wing and tail for sale.
philogiston spar
skeleton complete
no prepunched but I have already drilled all the holes
tail 95% complete
control surfaces complete
fuselage jig (metal)
tail horizontal jig
any thing else that I have left that I have'nt a;ready loaned out (clecoes etc.)
Total: $3500.00 usd
Buyer to pay shipping and I live in Alabama
Reason: I want to buy a Grumman AA1
Thanks
Steve Nichols
dna
Please reply off list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
My experience was that this problem of loose clecoes was noticeable when I
dimpled curved surfaces, like the leading edge of the wing. It was
non-existent when I dimpled flat surfaces. FWIW I have used the #40 drill
bits throughout the project.
Steve Soule
Huntington, VT
RV-6A baffles "Will it ever end?"
-----Original Message-----
Not trying to restart the big hub-bub on #40 vs #41 but as a new builder I
realized very soon that whenever I drilled with #40 and dimpled, my (brand
new) clecos pulled out with very little pressure on them. When drilling
with
a #41 bit this never happened.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paper Funnel |
Is that the insurance policy (used as a funnel) or did the policy ALSO include
a
funnel ?
n5lp(at)carlsbad.net on 06/19/2000 03:05:26 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Paper Funnel
Listers:
Just got my insurance policy from Scott Smith. Enclosed was the exact
item I have been meaning to patent and make a million dollars on, a
collapsable paper oil funnel. Is this a reddily available item I have
just never seen?
I have been using rolled up manilla. The one funnel a year from Scott is
not enough.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
| Subject: | Re: What size Cleco |
Listers-
One thing I have found is that not all clecoes are created equal- the
ones I got with my original toolkit from ACS (U.S. Industrial) were
"CLECO-LOK". I ordered more later from someone else (not sure who,
could dig into reciepts if anyone really needs the info) and they were
labeled "KWIK-LOK" (I think- not in the shop right now). The latter
ones will grip holes the CLECO-LOK brand won't- they also seem to be
more consistently manufactured with less sideways bending of the grip
fingers.
FWIW From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark -6A, starting other wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paper Funnel |
| From: | Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>
>Is that the insurance policy (used as a funnel) or did the policy ALSO
>include a
>funnel ?
>
>
There was a funnel, with advertising on it, stuck in the envelope with
the policy.
Larry Pardue
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 8 inch Wing Spar Attach ?? |
>For me, there's a psychological comfort in knowing the 4 and 6 wing spars
>are longer and have more surface attachment area inside the fuse. I have
>seen a couple of modern purpose built acro wings and they look liked the
>spars carried all the way through the fuse too. Any thoughts
>I know this is a exercise in dead horse beating but this poster brings up
a
>good
>point.
Seems that way at first, but think about it. One -8 wing has broken in
flight, and others in ground testing. None of them broke inside the fuse.
So having more metal inside the fuse would just be adding weight. It
would make that section stronger, but it is already strong enough.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
RV-8 80091 Riviting fuel tanks.
1/5 Starduster II N23UT flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What size Cleco |
>
> Listers-
>
> One thing I have found is that not all clecoes are created equal- the
> ones I got with my original toolkit from ACS (U.S. Industrial) were
> "CLECO-LOK". I ordered more later from someone else (not sure who,
> could dig into reciepts if anyone really needs the info) and they were
> labeled "KWIK-LOK" (I think- not in the shop right now). The latter
> ones will grip holes the CLECO-LOK brand won't- they also seem to be
> more consistently manufactured with less sideways bending of the grip
> fingers.
The other thing I found with the Kwik-Lok vs. Cleco brand was that the Cleco
brand would often not fit in a #41 hole that had been drilled but not
dimpled, while the Kwik-Lok would. They also seemed more consistent and
higher quality. When I bought additional clecos, I made sure they were the
Kwik-Lok brand.
Terry
RV-8A wings still
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Dickens" <mddickens(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 8 inch Wing Spar Attach ?? |
I'd just refer you to page 43 of the "18 Years of the RV-Ator" where Van
explains that the RV-8 spar "center section is inherently stiffer than the
narrower spar extension of the RV-4 and RV-6" and that "the wing spar
concepts we have used in all of our other kits have been a departure from
industry standards" (his words, not mine). I'm more concerned about my
building skills and the quality of my workmanship than I am Van's design
acumen.
Please let's bury this horse now...
Mark Dickens
RV-8 Wings
----- Original Message -----
From: <pcondon(at)csc.com>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 8 inch Wing Spar Attach ??
>
>
> BUT, here's the other *perception* question. The 8's spars only protrude
> into the fuselage about 8 inches as opposed to the 4 and 6 which have
spars
> which span the full with of the fuselage. I don't design airplanes and
won't
> pretend my comments mean diddly squat. It's probably GA standard for the
> spars to only go through the fuse a bit like the 8's do but then most GA
> aren't doing aerobatics.
>
> For me, there's a psychological comfort in knowing the 4 and 6 wing spars
> are longer and have more surface attachment area inside the fuse. I have
> seen a couple of modern purpose built acro wings and they look liked the
> spars carried all the way through the fuse too. Any thoughts
>
>
> I know this is a exercise in dead horse beating but this poster brings up
a good
> point.
> Any thoughts from our knowledgable group ?????
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What size Cleoe |
I never had a problem with # 40 holes. Perhaps you are to aggressive
with the dimple process and enlargeing the hole too much.
Earl RV4
"Stephen J. Soule" wrote:
>
>
> My experience was that this problem of loose clecoes was noticeable when I
> dimpled curved surfaces, like the leading edge of the wing. It was
> non-existent when I dimpled flat surfaces. FWIW I have used the #40 drill
> bits throughout the project.
>
> Steve Soule
> Huntington, VT
> RV-6A baffles "Will it ever end?"
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Not trying to restart the big hub-bub on #40 vs #41 but as a new builder I
> realized very soon that whenever I drilled with #40 and dimpled, my (brand
> new) clecos pulled out with very little pressure on them. When drilling
> with
> a #41 bit this never happened.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Starn" <jhstarn(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Thanks for the thoughts |
Just a short note of thanks to Gummibear, Texas listers and members of Apple
Valley EAA for the good thoughts and prayers (we're not in school so you'all
can ignore todays Supreme Court cr*p) You may not hear me for a while but
thanks to the lists I'll still on line and "talk" via a keyboard untill I
learn to speak again. Been riding observer in a 172 chase plane of UAV's,
(Unmanned Airal Vehicle) and got a ride in THE Harmon Rocket. We, Gummibear
and Kabong are still at the 95% level on his Rocket. I go in Wednesday and
should be back online until 27th or 28th. Thanks for all your thoughts.
Kabong
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: What size Cleco |
Get some scrap and practice using the #41 drill and see if that works.
Cecil
>
> The cleco's are brand new, I have plenty of grip length. I think I
>will
>take a look at ordering a new set of dimples but the one I'm using now
>has
>only been used on the tail kit and or the correct size. I have had
>problems
>with this in the past but on flat surface they stay just fine. On the
>leading
>edge though the spring effect pulls them out.
> Oedering a new set of dimples (by the way the one I have now were
>from
>Avery)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Video camera mount |
Make your own, it shouldn't be to hard.
Cecil Hatfeild
writes:
>
>Greetings,
>
>I'm looking for a good way to mount my camcorder to the RV-8, and
>wondered
>if anyone can save me some effort (or money). My plan is to mount it
>to the
>steel bar that forms the rear seatback support, to the right of the
>seat,
>looking forward over my shoulder. After some searching, I found what
>appears to be a good mount, but it's $95, and I wanted to see if
>anyone
>knows of any other alternatives before I spend the money. Here's a
>link to
>the mount I found: http://www.ioportracing.com/video.htm
>
>Thanks,
>Russell Duffy
>Navarre, FL
>RV-8, 80587 (flying)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What size Cleoe |
I'm amazed that people on this list still talk about what size drill to use for
3/32" rivets in dimpled holes. The correct size is #41. Debur and dimple.
Simple. Try it. I guarantee it works. Curved, flat, whatever. Check the
archives. This was discusssed to death years ago.
The way to decide whether you're being too aggressive with the dimpling process
is to check the rivet head after you buck or squeeze it. If it's not proud or
depressed you're doing it correctly. How can you be too aggressive anyway?
Squeeze as hard as you please; the material stops the dies from coming too close
together unless you're using some kind of hydraulic press, for cryin' out loud.
Jack Abell
EARL FORTNER wrote:
>
> I never had a problem with # 40 holes. Perhaps you are to aggressive
> with the dimple process and enlargeing the hole too much.
> Earl RV4
>
> "Stephen J. Soule" wrote:
> >
> >
> > My experience was that this problem of loose clecoes was noticeable when I
> > dimpled curved surfaces, like the leading edge of the wing. It was
> > non-existent when I dimpled flat surfaces. FWIW I have used the #40 drill
> > bits throughout the project.
> >
> > Steve Soule
> > Huntington, VT
> > RV-6A baffles "Will it ever end?"
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > Not trying to restart the big hub-bub on #40 vs #41 but as a new builder I
> > realized very soon that whenever I drilled with #40 and dimpled, my (brand
> > new) clecos pulled out with very little pressure on them. When drilling
> > with
> > a #41 bit this never happened.
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com> |
| Subject: | RV Shirts from "RVPaul" |
Message for RVPaul: please contact me at jwlawson(at)hargray.com regarding the shirts
that I ordered
from you, I haven't received them yet and I've not received any replies to the
e-mails that I've
sent.
For RV Listers: has anyone had any problems getting shirts that they ordered?
Semper Fi
John Lawson
HS done...about to skin the VS...working on the elevators and rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Standard Size Avionics? |
Hi,
I will soon be cutting my panel for the avionics stack. I will be
riveting two angles to the panel to support the radios. Is there an
accepted "industry standard" for the spacing on these angles? My
Garmins both use the same dimension, but will any future avionics I
install (including other brands) mount on the same spacing?
-Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What size Cleoe |
> I'm amazed that people on this list still talk about what size drill to
use for
> 3/32" rivets in dimpled holes. The correct size is #41. Debur and
dimple.
> Simple. Try it. I guarantee it works. Curved, flat, whatever. Check
the
> archives. This was discusssed to death years ago.
>
Well now that depends on who you talk to doesn't it? I made a call to Van's
when I started my kit, and they told me that using a #41 drill bit was
pretty freaking stupid. In fact, Ken made fun of the type of people who
feel they have to change things like that just to make themselves feel like
an engineer. The dies are made for a #40, the rivet is SUPPOSED to have a
bit of play in the hole to expand into...the amount of play that is there
when you drill with a #40. Two A&P friends of mine have told me the proper
size hole for a dimpled 3/32" rivet is a #40. I can tell you that the
rivet expanding into the larger size hole WILL GIVE IT A LARGER CROSS
SECTION WHEN FINISHED......thereby making it stronger. It seems to me there
are just to many people out there trying to 'out think' the designers.
Drill whatever size hole you want....but don't come back at me stating that
Van's -8 wing is perfect if you won't even consider the most basic aspect of
his designs (the rivet hole) to be accurate.
Bill
-4 wings all #40 and never had one single cleco problem, and not a
ripple to be found.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-8 spar -enough already |
For those of you who 'feel'that the 8 spar should have an I-beam carry
through, I am assuming you would never ever ever fly in a Spitfire (or
ME-109, etc). We all know how dangerous those aeroplanes have turned out.
The Spit has 7 boltson each 6" stub (3 up/4 down). Either re-engineer your
own airplane, or stop bitching and start building. Flying one of these
machines (RV-8) is more fun then ............ anything!!!!!
Ed Storo RV-8 30hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 spar -enough already |
In a message dated 6/19/2000 10:00:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
ERSF2B(at)AOL.COM writes:
<< For those of you who 'feel'that the 8 spar should have an I-beam carry
through, I am assuming you would never ever ever fly in a Spitfire (or
ME-109, etc). We all know how dangerous those aeroplanes have turned out.
The Spit has 7 boltson each 6" stub (3 up/4 down). Either re-engineer your
own airplane, or stop bitching and start building. Flying one of these
machines (RV-8) is more fun then ............ anything!!!!!
Ed Storo RV-8 30hrs
>>
I'll agree with you that the RV 8 spar is fine as long as you dont exceed its
limitations, but that goes for any spar, so its a good wing.
Next I have disagree, the rocket is more fun
lol
Anyways its time to put the RV 8 spar issue to bed forever. The spar lives
up to its design limitations. If your going to exceed them, then don't bitch
go buy a giles 202 or something like that
chris wilcox
F1 rocket 000
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CW9371(at)AOL.COM.Tue, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0003584592@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Mon,
19 Jun 2000 20:55:03.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 spar -enough already |
In a message dated 6/19/2000 10:00:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
ERSF2B(at)AOL.COM writes:
<< For those of you who 'feel'that the 8 spar should have an I-beam carry
through, I am assuming you would never ever ever fly in a Spitfire (or
ME-109, etc). We all know how dangerous those aeroplanes have turned out.
The Spit has 7 boltson each 6" stub (3 up/4 down). Either re-engineer your
own airplane, or stop bitching and start building. Flying one of these
machines (RV-8) is more fun then ............ anything!!!!!
Ed Storo RV-8 30hrs
>>
I'll agree with you that the RV 8 spar is fine as long as you dont exceed its
limitations, but that goes for any spar, so its a good wing.
Next I have disagree, the rocket is more fun
lol
Anyways its time to put the RV 8 spar issue to bed forever. The spar lives
up to its design limitations. If your going to exceed them, then don't bitch
go buy a giles 202 or something like that
chris wilcox
F1 rocket 000
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Zander" <dzan(at)pacifier.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine level w/longerons? |
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Lervold <randy@rv-8.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 10:49 AM
Subject: RV-List: Engine level w/longerons?
Listers,
Although this question pertaints to my RV-8 I believe the principal would
apply to all RVs, so here goes. About six months ago at a local builder's
group meeting at my house Bill Benedict was showing another builder how the
top of the engine should be level with the main longerons. He had someone
raise the tail and shim it so as to level the fuse as measured with a bubble
level on the cockpit sides (longerons). He then put the bubble level on the
engine to demonstrate this. He indicated you could measure it longitudinally
on the tops of the valve covers, tops of the head castings, or the pushrod
tubes. Using the bubble level on all three showed the same results.
Bill Benedict came out to my place one night and put the smart level on the
main longeron and also the cylinder casting and it was one degree off. He
check the engine mount and noticed the LACK OF A THICK WASHER NEXT
TO THE CASE. We corrected the situation and now they read the same degree.
The correct way is the only way.
Dick Zander
N747RZ finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjc <bjc(at)btconnect.com> |
| Subject: | Jon Johanson & Ken Scott |
Jon Johanson arrived at our local RV Fly-in (Compton Abbas EGHA - England
60nm SW London)
15 RV aircraft and many RV builders meet Jon, Ken Scott from Van's was also
able to attend.
Photo's of Jon and Ken appear on www.rv6.co.uk
Barry Clifford
England
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "edperry64" <edperry64(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 aileron hinges |
Here is a tip for anybody who is working on the aileron and hinges. I have
been trying to align my ailerons and flaps and have been having quite a bit
of fun installing and taking off the top nut that holds the pushrod to the
hinge. Anyway I installed a locking one lug nut plate on the aileron side
top part of the hinge and now the urge to scream profanities is gone.
Ed Perry
edperry64(at)netzero.net
RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Dimpling #40 vs. #32 |
If you drill #40 holes before you dimple them you're making a huge mistake.
The secret to perfect rivets is to drill #32 and DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT,
deburr the hole. If you do this, the burr holds a 3/32" rivet firmly in
place while you rivet. The shop head of the rivet will also curl back over
the burr and form an interlocking joint.
I haven't heard this mentioned on the list before so I wanted to pass it on.
It has saved me many, many hours of work.
Matthew
-8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling #40 vs. #32 |
MATHEW
i think you need a bigger hole than you think. the way a rivit works is , it
has to be squeezed all the way for it to harden. if you have too small of a
hole, the rivit will not expand to harden in the hole area, therefore it will
have a soft shear point in the hole. the head and shop head will harden, but
not the shank. i would think about this for a moment if i were you.
good luck
scott
tampa
rv6a tipper
25 years riviting sheetmetal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | firewall hole covers for cables |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
Thanks to all on my firewall covers question. For the record I am
including them below.
Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
*********************************************
>What should I buy for the holes in the firewall? I think I need a
>rubber grommet to fit the cable & a 2 pc cover to go over that.
That's what I did. It works well and was liked by the inspector. I also
put some RTV on the fireshield to help keep out gases from the
cockpit.
>I ended up with mixture cable having to make a Steep "S" bend.
Mine, too. The short one was too short. The long one was too long.
I just made the bend. It works just fine. However, my steep bend
cable was on the throttle. I have the other cables on my mixture. I
could cut and fit those.
>My stand off bracket for the Throttle/mixture has a non-bent flange
>just sticking out. Looks like I need to bolt about 3 inches more
>bracket & turn down 90 degrees for the mixture.
I didn't bend mine; but, most do, I think. I really didn't like my
attach
bracket; but, I got it to work. It was a lot easier than fabricating my
own.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (just under 48 hours on the tach)
***********************************************
> >
> > That's what I did - made an extension out of .063 4130 and bolted
> it to the existing non-bent flange. It is a tight S-curve to get from
the
> bracket to the cable pass-though area on the firewall (I used the area
to the
> right of the battery as I think Van's intended). The finished
installation
> works smooth as silk though.
> > Curt
*************************************************
DON,
I just finished installing my mixture and throttle cables. I also used
Vans
bracket. My cables come through the firewall just to the right of the
battery box and a few inches off the floorboards. I had to make a bracket
like the one you describe with a 90 degree downward bend. Also used
rubber
grommets and firewall shields from Vans, and it all went together fairly
easily.
Scott Baldwin N728P>
***************************************************
Although you didn't mention it it sounds like you have the old
throttle/mixture bracket and a 180HP engine. Van's sells a new bracket
now
which works slicker than snot on a brass door knob for the 180. You no
longer have to make the extension; however it is still a tight fit at teh
firewall
The boys at FTG have been exit ing the firewall at close quarters with
the
battery box and down very low, for a straight shot to the mixture..
--
Denis L.(Bum) Walsh
***************************************************
Don,
The $25 eyeball fittings are nice. You can get them at Aircraft Spruce.
No
chance of chaffing, a nice mechanical attachment, etc. They do cost more
than the grommet/shield thing, and they require more/bigger holes in the
firewall, but I like 'em and so do the folks who've seen where I used
'em.
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Shirts from "RVPaul" |
Me, too. No shirt, no money, no reply.
Jerry Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 6:32 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV Shirts from "RVPaul"
>
> Message for RVPaul: please contact me at jwlawson(at)hargray.com regarding
the shirts that I ordered
> from you, I haven't received them yet and I've not received any replies to
the e-mails that I've
> sent.
>
> For RV Listers: has anyone had any problems getting shirts that they
ordered?
>
> Semper Fi
> John Lawson
> HS done...about to skin the VS...working on the elevators and rudder
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Banks" <tinmanjj(at)ptd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling #40 vs. #32 |
what size clecos do you use
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Gelber" <mgelber(at)pacbell.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 12:06 PM
Subject: RV-List: Dimpling #40 vs. #32
>
> If you drill #40 holes before you dimple them you're making a huge
mistake.
> The secret to perfect rivets is to drill #32 and DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT,
> deburr the hole. If you do this, the burr holds a 3/32" rivet firmly in
> place while you rivet. The shop head of the rivet will also curl back
over
> the burr and form an interlocking joint.
>
> I haven't heard this mentioned on the list before so I wanted to pass it
on.
> It has saved me many, many hours of work.
>
> Matthew
> -8A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling #40 vs. #32 |
WHOOOA here. I have been trying to stay out of this but now I feel a very
big need to step in. My apologies but this technique is asking for trouble
in the future. First I know you meant #42, not #32, but that aside you are
asking for fractured rivets in the future. Leaving the burr, just to hold
the rivet in place, is setting in a stress point that could very easily lead
to fractured and sheared rivets. DO NOT leave the burrs in place. The hole
MUST be a round and smooth as you can get it. I can't stress that enough.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
A&P for 20 years
R&D project manager in the past
Former military test pilot/ maintenance officer
"Das Fed" now, but these ideas are my own.
>From: Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Dimpling #40 vs. #32
>Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:06:39 -0700
>
>
>If you drill #40 holes before you dimple them you're making a huge mistake.
>The secret to perfect rivets is to drill #32 and DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT,
>deburr the hole. If you do this, the burr holds a 3/32" rivet firmly in
>place while you rivet. The shop head of the rivet will also curl back over
>the burr and form an interlocking joint.
>
>I haven't heard this mentioned on the list before so I wanted to pass it
>on.
>It has saved me many, many hours of work.
>
>Matthew
>-8A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fun for the hole family, was Dimpling #40 vs. #32 |
> it's hard to explain so I put up a picture:
> http://www.gelber.org/n/interlocking.jpg
> One goes this way and one goes that way. I doubt even Billy Barty
> could pull
> that one apart.
Hey!!!
Where'd you get pictures of my main spar??!!!
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Leaving the burr (was ... Dimpling #40 vs. #32) |
There are many reasons that aircraft builders deburr holes. Among them, the
reference books tell us, is that the burr, if left in place, will flatten
out over time and leave you with a loose rivet.
Steve Soule
Huntington VT
RV-6A O-320 baffles
-----Original Message-----
> The secret to perfect rivets is to drill #32 and DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT,
> deburr the hole. If you do this, the burr holds a 3/32" rivet firmly in
> place while you rivet. The shop head of the rivet will also curl back
over
> the burr and form an interlocking joint.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net |
| Subject: | Re: RV Shirts from "RVPaul" |
I had a bit of trouble getting in touch with Paul but eventually got
through. He hurried and sent my shirts. I received them shortly after and
they were satisfactory. He was worried that his business was being
jeopardized because I voiced my concerns to this list. I'll never send
the whole 100% again before services are rendered. Money talks.
Anh
N985VU
Maryland
>
>Me, too. No shirt, no money, no reply.
>
>Jerry Carter
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
>To:
>Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 6:32 PM
>Subject: RV-List: RV Shirts from "RVPaul"
>
>
>>
>> Message for RVPaul: please contact me at jwlawson(at)hargray.com regarding
>the shirts that I ordered
>> from you, I haven't received them yet and I've not received any replies to
>the e-mails that I've
>> sent.
>>
>> For RV Listers: has anyone had any problems getting shirts that they
>ordered?
>>
>> Semper Fi
>> John Lawson
>> HS done...about to skin the VS...working on the elevators and rudder
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRawls3896(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: What size Cleoe |
In a message dated 06/19/2000 7:19:09 PM Central Daylight Time,
e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<<
I never had a problem with # 40 holes. Perhaps you are to aggressive
with the dimple process and enlargeing the hole too much.
Earl RV4
>>
Well I'm using a squeezer and when using the C frame a wooden mallet. I
do think that when squeezing that it inlarge's the hole. This has only
happened on the leading edge curved surface and not so much the flat
surface's. Aggressive! I think not. But thanks for your input.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Shirts from "RVPaul" |
> I had a bit of trouble getting in touch with Paul but eventually got
> through. He hurried and sent my shirts. I received them shortly after
and
> they were satisfactory. He was worried that his business was being
> jeopardized because I voiced my concerns to this list. I'll never send
> the whole 100% again before services are rendered. Money talks.
He should be worried about his business being jeopardized because he doesn't
deliver when promised, not because you told some people about it. Bad
business practice yields an early retirement, or change of employment
status. I know I'm not sending my money in that direction.
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello Listers:
The Oshkosh 2000 show is almost upon us. Team Rocket will have the same booth
space as last year (#438) in the north display area -- stop in and say Hi!
We are happy to announce our Oshkosh show special pricing, valid thru 1
August 2000:
-the entire QB kit (including the empennage kit) will be sold for $29,999
during the show
-Empennage kits purchased separately will be sold for $999 during the
show
Normal pricing for these kits is $32,700 for the QB kit, and $1350 for the
empenage kit. The show special will save you over $4000!
We will have a selection of our optional parts on display also (these parts
can also be seen on our website catalog). For example, our new 3 lever
throttle quadrant is an amazing piece of work (black anodized body, with
black, red, and blue anodized lever handles), and sells for only $225. You
have to see this part to appreciate it!
We hope to see you there!
Check Six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling #40 vs. #32 |
You either mean a #42 bit or 3/32" bit. Both holes leave the dimpled hole to
small to properly harden the rivet. The rivet needs room to expand in the hole
to gain full strength.
As for not deburring; well, thats up to you. IMHO holes should be deburred and
all edges of parts should be deburred. The front of Van's manual points this
out. If it was not important then it would not be printed in the construction
manual.
Gary Zilik
Matthew Gelber wrote:
>
> If you drill #40 holes before you dimple them you're making a huge mistake.
> The secret to perfect rivets is to drill #32 and DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT,
> deburr the hole. If you do this, the burr holds a 3/32" rivet firmly in
> place while you rivet. The shop head of the rivet will also curl back over
> the burr and form an interlocking joint.
>
> I haven't heard this mentioned on the list before so I wanted to pass it on.
> It has saved me many, many hours of work.
>
> Matthew
> -8A
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling #40 vs. #32 |
Uh guys......he was kidding. He did mean #32 drill and he did mean do not
deburr...but it was all in jest, making fun of the #40 vs #41 fiasco.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Christie" <billc(at)dancris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What size Cleoe |
Bill,
I absolutely agree and I'll add one other little note. I tried using 41 on
the left wing and found that you have to go back and drill 40 on the main
spar as the countersink pilot will not go in the hole. I went back and
redrilled to 40. No problems with rivets and the right wing is going very
well.
Bill Christie, Rt. Wing, RV8A, Phoenix
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Shook <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: What size Cleoe
>
> > I'm amazed that people on this list still talk about what size drill to
> use for
> > 3/32" rivets in dimpled holes. The correct size is #41. Debur and
> dimple.
> > Simple. Try it. I guarantee it works. Curved, flat, whatever. Check
> the
> > archives. This was discusssed to death years ago.
> >
>
>
> Well now that depends on who you talk to doesn't it? I made a call to
Van's
> when I started my kit, and they told me that using a #41 drill bit was
> pretty freaking stupid. In fact, Ken made fun of the type of people who
> feel they have to change things like that just to make themselves feel
like
> an engineer. The dies are made for a #40, the rivet is SUPPOSED to have a
> bit of play in the hole to expand into...the amount of play that is there
> when you drill with a #40. Two A&P friends of mine have told me the
proper
> size hole for a dimpled 3/32" rivet is a #40. I can tell you that the
> rivet expanding into the larger size hole WILL GIVE IT A LARGER CROSS
> SECTION WHEN FINISHED......thereby making it stronger. It seems to me
there
> are just to many people out there trying to 'out think' the designers.
> Drill whatever size hole you want....but don't come back at me stating
that
> Van's -8 wing is perfect if you won't even consider the most basic aspect
of
> his designs (the rivet hole) to be accurate.
>
> Bill
> -4 wings all #40 and never had one single cleco problem, and not a
> ripple to be found.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
Mark: I hope to check out your booth this year as once my RV6-A-QB is done
and my flying skills are up to speed a ROCKET is next! I really like the
quality of the gear leg covers and fairings purchased from you in March.
I assume you got your computer problems handled from the move. Did
you have any other duplicate Master Card charges beside mine to reverse?
Computer Systems are great when they work.
Tom in
Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: <Mlfred(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 5:48 PM
Subject: RV-List: OSH 2000
>
> Hello Listers:
>
> The Oshkosh 2000 show is almost upon us. Team Rocket will have the same
booth
> space as last year (#438) in the north display area -- stop in and say Hi!
>
> We are happy to announce our Oshkosh show special pricing, valid thru 1
> August 2000:
> -the entire QB kit (including the empennage kit) will be sold for
$29,999
> during the show
> -Empennage kits purchased separately will be sold for $999 during the
> show
>
> Normal pricing for these kits is $32,700 for the QB kit, and $1350 for the
> empenage kit. The show special will save you over $4000!
>
> We will have a selection of our optional parts on display also (these
parts
> can also be seen on our website catalog). For example, our new 3 lever
> throttle quadrant is an amazing piece of work (black anodized body, with
> black, red, and blue anodized lever handles), and sells for only $225. You
> have to see this part to appreciate it!
>
> We hope to see you there!
>
> Check Six!
> Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Kunkel <rvator(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | References for Rivet Hole Sizes |
Hello everyone,
There's a lot of good information in the archives with respect to hole
sizes for different rivets. Of particular interest to me, since he was
our Tech Counselor before Hughes moved him to Arizona, was Gil
Alexander's research & subsequent articles on riveting. The exact
specifications are located at his web site -
http//home.flash.net/~gila/. Of note, the recommended drill size for a
3/32" rivet is a #40 drill. HOWEVER, not to ruffle anyone's feathers,
the minimum hole size is .093 and the maximum hole size is .103 (To the
drill gauges!!). This is according to the Missile Command & is the
specification for the Dept. of Defense. If I remember correctly, Gil
liked to use a #41 drill for 3/32 rivets, but that was his personal
preference.
I have experimented w/ the C frame tool quite a bit. I do notice a
significant difference in the dimples depending on how the tool is
mounted. I get the best results after bolting the C frame tool to a
piece of 1/4" steel plate, tapping the set once to seat it, and then
harder to finish the dimple. May be a little more time consuming, but
the results for me are worth it. I'm sure others have special techniques
that work best for them.
Article 3.3.1 Cleaning Mating Surfaces is also interesting since it
addresses deburring.
Happy & Safe Building.
Blue Skies!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Rocky Mountain EAA Regional Fly-In |
This coming Saturday, June 24 2000, is day one of the Rocky Mountain EAA
Regional Fly-In. More importantly is the fact that Ryan and Morine
Bendure (RV-4 junkies) are again hosting lunch at their hangar for
fellow RV builders and flyers. This is a pot-luck type of affair and
side dishes are always welcome. The Bendure's have procured the burgers,
hot dogs and refreshments so there is no reason to bring such items. So
if your driving, riding your bike or walking in, think about bringing a
side dish. If your flying in, also think about bringing a side dish. Of
course you don't have to bring anything except an empty stomach.
Place: Vance Brand Airport (2V2)
375 Airport Rd. Hangar 34
Longmont, CO
Lat/Long: 40-09-49.217N / 105-09-46.933W
(40.1636714 / -105.1630369)
Time: 1130 Sharp
PS; The Rocky Mountain RVators also have a short meeting at this
gathering.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Tena Strong" <gstrong(at)uswest.net> |
I just received my qb6A Friday and finished the unpacking today. I started
trying to check off the parts against the packing list, but as slow as it is
going, I'll eat up my 2000 hrs on the packing list check alone. Is there
some trick to this (it
doesn't seem in any numerical or alpha order)? Do most of you not bother
and trust that nothing was missed, or do you spend the time to go over each
item? What is the frequency that there are parts missing that the packing
list shows as shipped?
- Gary S. - just barely out of the crate.
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| Subject: | Engine thrust angle resolved |
Listers,
If you remember the question I posted regarding my engine thrust angle
relative to the main longeron level then you might be interested in what I
learned and did. To refresh your memory, Bill Benedict spotted the fact that
my engine was not level with my main longerons, which it in theory is
supposed to be. We couldn't quantify it at the time because we only had a
bubble level. Well, Monday night I borrowed my buddy's SmartLevel (man what
a useful device!) again (I used it for mounting wings and empennage which I
highly recommend) and measured everything. With the fuselage completely
leveled out, both laterally and longitudinally, the engine had .5 degrees of
positive thrust angle (tilted up at the front), and this is with the prop
and spinner mounted. I used a straight edge pivoted at the engine mount and
the SmartLevel to determine what that was in vertical inches at the back of
the spinner... it was 1/4-9/32". Most people with O-360s (parallel valve)
and c/s props are reporting about 3/16" sag after 50 hours or so, therefore
I would still be left with a small bit of positive thrust angle (maybe a
tenth of a degree) once it sagged. Hmmm.
I called Van's Monday and talked to Tom Green. We agreed that I'd quantify
things and call him back today with the measurements referenced above. Tom
referred me to Ken Krueger in the engineering department. I had a great
conversation with Ken and learned many things. Did you know that the
RV-3/4/8 all are spec'd with 1/2 degree postive angle of incidence on the
main wing, while the RV-6/9s use one full degree? The thinking is that the
RV-6 would be more of a cross country aircraft carrying more weight and
flying at higher altitudes, therefore they gave it the extra half degree to
support the weight and keep the tail from sagging at cruise. Remember also
that in theory these planes cruise most efficiently when the longerons truly
are level in flight, which according to Bill's informal research most RVs do
not.
June 13, 2000 - June 20, 2000
RV-Archive.digest.vol-is