RV-Archive.digest.vol-iy

July 26, 2000 - August 02, 2000



      
      
      
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From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
"Van's Tech Support"
Subject: RV6AQB Splice plate question.
Date: Jul 26, 2000
Is the lower rear main spar splice plate supposed to be removeable? Even after removing the split seat rib(F619L) upper portion there isn't enough "wiggle" room to get this thing out. I'm trying to do a real good cleanup so that I can prep for finishing the construction. Did I miss something, is something else needed to facilitate removal, or is there no way to remove the splice plate? Ralph Capen 60431 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bcbraem(at)home.com.with.ESMTP (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116)
Date: Jul 26, 2000
Subject: Re: PosiTech Oil Coolers
The Lycoming Engine Owner's Manual recommends oil temps between 165 - 220 degrees F without mention of different temp ranges for different oil brand names. Boyd SW FL > > > In a message dated 7/23/00 9:07:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, randy@rv-8.com > writes: > > << > > Has anyone had any good or bad experiences with the PosiTech oil coolers? > > They seem to be about half the price of the Stewart Warners? >> > > So far mine has performed too well. I have a 7row on 360-DIA mounted on the > firewall which is supposedly the poorest cooling position. I have been flying > June and July here in S Fla and my oil temp is running too cool per Shell's > recommendation. The temps are 180 cruise and 200 on long hard climb. I am > considering running the discharge thru the cockpit heat valve and removing > the heat muff. > > Bernie Kerr, 6A 40 hours, SE Fla > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Emergency Landing in Arizona/high oil temp, etc.
Date: Jul 26, 2000
>Descr: PILOT NOTIFIED FLG ATCT THAT AIRCRAFT WAS OVERHEATING AND LOSING > POWER, PILOT LANDED ON I17 5 MILES SOUTH OF FLAGSTAFF, AZ I can see how engine temperature can get outta control in a HURRY in Arizona. I don't know how you guys who live and fly there manage it! Anyway, the hottest oil temp I've seen to date in my O-360/RV8 was on climbout from Payson as reported in my paint job trip post a few days ago. I read through the shell oil aviation products FAQ page yesterday for some guidance from those who make the oil I currently use which is straight weight, Aeroshell W100 Plus. From their indications, the use of the multigrade weight 15W-50 should lower oil temps in high temperature environments. Now, since the multi costs more than the straight, do you folks think this is just a way to market the more costly oil or have any of you found this temperature difference claim to be factual? I used the multi during the winter and had a hard time getting the oil up to even 180 degrees and it never went any higher. According to the Shell gurus, 200-210 degrees is a good range to operate in. Higher than that, and the straight weight oil will begin to generate acids, and lose viscosity faster than the multi. I've been up to 230 so far, and normally run about 215 here at home during the summer. Oil pressure when cold is 80psi, and 65 when hot. If just changing out the oil to the multi and running it year round would take care of the summertime overtemp issue, then I'll gladly do that. Kudos to the pilot who landed it under control and without harming anyone on the ground! Thanks, Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Lumpkin" <tlump(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Wire Splicing
Date: Jul 26, 2000
There are a few locations where I think I will have to splice. The particular location I am working on now is for my trim and flap position indicators. Because I couldn't stop myself, I have three axis trim on my RV-4. This means four indicators (including flaps). I have all the indicators located in a section of my center console. I want to run one power wire from the fuse block, splice that into four wires to run to each indicator. Same thing in reverse for ground. I was going to run a larger gauge wire to the splice and then the smaller wires to the indicators (through mate-n-lok connectors). As you mentioned, I would size the fuse for the smaller wire, but would assume that none of the four indicators will be drawing power simultaneously. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Date: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 7:52 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: Wire Splicing > >> I am laying out my wiring diagram and have several areas >>where I will want to splice one wire into several others. I know this can >>be done with solder seal splices as well as crimped butt splices. What I >>can't seem to find any information on is how to determine what size crimp >>barrel to use. For instance, if I want to splice one 14 ga. wire to three >>22 ga. wires do I use a 14 ga. crimp barrel? Is there some way to convert >>multiple wire sizes into the equivalent single wire gauge? I know I can use >>terminal strips for some of this, but they take up a lot of space and add >>weight. Has anyone out there conquered this problem? > > Each three steps in wire gage is about a 2x change in copper > cross section. For example, three 22AWG wires would have about > the same copper as a 17AWG . . . A blue (14-16AWG) butt splice > would be fine for what you propose . . . > > The PROBLEM is that the circuit you've described must be protected > for 22AWG wire . . . it's okay to use 14AWG to extend a long circuit > for the purpose of lowering voltage drop but the circuit protection > needs to be sized for the SMALLEST wire in the circuit. > > What is your application where the three way split seems necessary? > > > Bob . . . > -------------------------------------------- > ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) > ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) > ( and still understand nothing. ) > ( C.F. Kettering ) > -------------------------------------------- > http://www.aeroelectric.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "The VonDane's" <vondanes(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Monitor
Date: Jul 26, 2000
Your not missing anything... I still say the GR EIS4000 is the best "bang for the buck"... AND... They offer a 1 year unconditional money back guarantee! I'm putting one in my -8A... This thing will do your pitot instruments too... I bet you could mount one in the back of a -4 or -8. Check the mounting dimensions... http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/enginfosys/mdl4-6.htm Bill VonDane, Colorado RV-8A, N8VD, Wings http://vondane.com/rv8a/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 9:44 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Monitor I am a bit confused. I am still in the consideration stage of choosing these things and I am trying to understand the advantages and drawbacks of each type. It seems that the allegro comes out more expensive with less monitoring than the Grand Rapids EIS. Is there something I'm missing? Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MOOREWAR(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 26, 2000
Subject: fuses
I am using a fuse block for my main buss per Bob Nuckolls/Aeroelectic Connection. Does anyone know of a source for small amp fuses? Couple of my instruments call for a 1 and/or 2 amp fuse, smallest I have been able to find is a 3. Warren Moore RV4, firewall forward. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Starn" <jhstarn(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Cockpit size question
Date: Jul 26, 2000
Could use a little "inside" help. I'm looking to buy/build a two place side by side airplane. Since I've not been 170# in forty plus years I need as wide a cockpit as possible. (6-0, 227#) All kinds of stats on those airplanes under consideration but I need one that is lacking in most of my reading materials. The question ? : How wide are the cockpits at hips and shoulder on Ercoupe, Alon, Colt, Skipper, RV-6a, RV-9a, Yankee, Tommyhawk, 150, 172, Kitfox and any other nose drager 2 place or 2 place+. Still working on last 5% of Gummibear's Rocket, I'm still a little shaky but back to limited work. Thanks for your support. Kabong ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2000
From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)azstarnet.com>
Subject: Mounting LRI probe
I am about to mount the Lift Reserve Indicator Probe on the underside of my RV-6A QB wing. I'd like to know where other LRI user's have mounted theirs. The easiest positions available are just aft of the main spar (similar to the bell crank inspection port). However, that seems to violate the instructions which say mount it between 15% and 30% of the chord or 9" to 20" aft of the leading edge. I estimate it has to be mounted forward of the main spar to meet these requirements. With a QB wing, that's harder since the forward section of the wing is all closed up already. So, for those who have the LRI, where did you mount the probe and is it working OK there? Thanks, ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com>
Subject: Re: fuses
Date: Jul 27, 2000
> > I am using a fuse block for my main buss per Bob Nuckolls/Aeroelectic > Connection. Does anyone know of a source for small amp fuses? Couple of my > instruments call for a 1 and/or 2 amp fuse, smallest I have been able to find > is a 3. > > Warren Moore > RV4, firewall forward. > Bob has them now on his web site. Jerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2000
From: Scott <acepilot(at)win.bright.net>
Subject: Re: fuses
I would suggest getting a catalog from Newark Electronics. It is available in printed or CD form. They have just about everything! Their website is at http://www.newark.com/ Hope this helps! Scott RV4 Tail MOOREWAR(at)AOL.COM wrote: > > > I am using a fuse block for my main buss per Bob Nuckolls/Aeroelectic > Connection. Does anyone know of a source for small amp fuses? Couple of my > instruments call for a 1 and/or 2 amp fuse, smallest I have been able to find > is a 3. > > Warren Moore > RV4, firewall forward. > -- --Scott-- 1986 Corben Junior Ace N3642 http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ RV-4 under construction (tail feathers) Gotta Fly or Gonna Die! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Burton"<dburton(at)foxinternet.net>
Date: Jul 27, 2000
Subject: Re: Cockpit size question
Hi John, If you don't get an answer here, go to rec.aviation.homebuilt and ask for Ron Wantaja's website (or use a search engine to find it), I'm at work and don't have the address with me. He hangs out on RAH, and also is the author of a book on homebuilding. He is a "large" guy and has a great list of aircraft and the interior sizes on his website. He also is frequently published in Kitplanes, and should have a great report from Arlington soon. Good luck, Dave > >Could use a little "inside" help. I'm looking to buy/build a two place side >by side airplane. Since I've not been 170# in forty plus years I need as >wide a cockpit as possible. (6-0, 227#) All kinds of stats on those >airplanes under consideration but I need one that is lacking in most of my >reading materials. The question ? : How wide are the cockpits at hips and >shoulder on Ercoupe, Alon, Colt, Skipper, RV-6a, RV-9a, Yankee, Tommyhawk, >150, 172, Kitfox and any other nose drager 2 place or 2 place+. Still >working on last 5% of Gummibear's Rocket, I'm still a little shaky but back >to limited work. Thanks for your support. Kabong > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Burton"<dburton(at)foxinternet.net>
Date: Jul 27, 2000
Subject: Re: Cockpit size question
Hi John, If you don't get an answer here, go to rec.aviation.homebuilt and ask for Ron Wantaja's website (or use a search engine to find it), I'm at work and don't have the address with me. He hangs out on RAH, and also is the author of a book on homebuilding. He is a "large" guy and has a great list of aircraft and the interior sizes on his website. He also is frequently published in Kitplanes, and should have a great report from Arlington soon. Good luck, Dave > >Could use a little "inside" help. I'm looking to buy/build a two place side >by side airplane. Since I've not been 170# in forty plus years I need as >wide a cockpit as possible. (6-0, 227#) All kinds of stats on those >airplanes under consideration but I need one that is lacking in most of my >reading materials. The question ? : How wide are the cockpits at hips and >shoulder on Ercoupe, Alon, Colt, Skipper, RV-6a, RV-9a, Yankee, Tommyhawk, >150, 172, Kitfox and any other nose drager 2 place or 2 place+. Still >working on last 5% of Gummibear's Rocket, I'm still a little shaky but back >to limited work. Thanks for your support. Kabong > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2000
From: old ogre <jollyd(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Cockpit size question
John....I'm 6'...250#...and fit in my ercoupe quite well, with enough room for another 250# person also...with that weight, it's a good thing the ercoupe never learned to read the book on weight limits..(slightly over gross)....but the ercoupe handles it with ease, especially with the 100hp...I also have a almost completed mustang-II that has good room also, altho, if you yse the T-18 canopy, yo are a bit cramped...I went out to van's the other day, and sat in thoer demos, and even I fit into the "4"! but it was a bit cramped, but once in, it was comfortable...(getting out, was a different story)...huff & puff...the rest of them...6A, 8A, and the 9A were dreams..altho I can't afford them, and I guess never will....if you want to see my "little fellows" please goto <<<http://www.pcez.com/~fancies/proptips... and look around....good luck...jolly in aurora, ore. John Starn wrote: > > Could use a little "inside" help. I'm looking to buy/build a two place side > by side airplane. Since I've not been 170# in forty plus years I need as > wide a cockpit as possible. (6-0, 227#) All kinds of stats on those > airplanes under consideration but I need one that is lacking in most of my > reading materials. The question ? : How wide are the cockpits at hips and > shoulder on Ercoupe, Alon, Colt, Skipper, RV-6a, RV-9a, Yankee, Tommyhawk, > 150, 172, Kitfox and any other nose drager 2 place or 2 place+. Still > working on last 5% of Gummibear's Rocket, I'm still a little shaky but back > to limited work. Thanks for your support. Kabong > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2000
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cockpit size question
> How wide are the cockpits at hips and > shoulder on Ercoupe, Alon, Colt, Skipper, RV-6a, RV-9a, Yankee, > Tommyhawk, 150, 172, Kitfox and any other nose drager 2 place or 2 > place+. Hey Jack, Don't have measurements but from experience can offer opinions. :) The RV cockpit is about 44 inches I think - the -6A and -9A are probably the same. You would fit into one (with electric flaps) as long as you limit your pax size. Kitfox would be a squeeze - would be a single-place for a big person. 150 is definitely out! The 172 would work although can be tough to get into and out of for a big person. A "Traumahawk" would work well - easy entry and exit, plenty of room inside - but then you'd be flying... a Tomahawk! :\ Can't offer thoughts on the others. The shame of it is, I've never had the chance to fly in an Ercoupe! Like every other choice you have to examine your mission - fast or slow, build or fly, etc. Do the -6! Do the -6! Do the -6! Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net>
Subject: Cockpit size question - here you go...
Date: Jul 27, 2000
Just follow this link and you'll see most cockpit measurements in detail - most homebuilt and many certified aircraft. http://www.halcyon.com/wanttaja/cockpit.html Regards, Are RV-8 (left elevator) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Thompson Sent: July 27, 2000 10:05 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Cockpit size question > How wide are the cockpits at hips and > shoulder on Ercoupe, Alon, Colt, Skipper, RV-6a, RV-9a, Yankee, > Tommyhawk, 150, 172, Kitfox and any other nose drager 2 place or 2 > place+. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: Re: Wire Splicing
Date: Jul 27, 2000
Consider daisy chaining the instruments rather than an octopus splice. It makes for a cleaner and (I believe) stronger installation since you will only be splicing 2 wires into one lug rather than 4. -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE Network Administrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 -----Original Message----- From: Ted Lumpkin [mailto:tlump(at)mediaone.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 5:51 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Wire Splicing There are a few locations where I think I will have to splice. The particular location I am working on now is for my trim and flap position indicators. Because I couldn't stop myself, I have three axis trim on my RV-4. This means four indicators (including flaps). I have all the indicators located in a section of my center console. I want to run one power wire from the fuse block, splice that into four wires to run to each indicator. Same thing in reverse for ground. I was going to run a larger gauge wire to the splice and then the smaller wires to the indicators (through mate-n-lok connectors). As you mentioned, I would size the fuse for the smaller wire, but would assume that none of the four indicators will be drawing power simultaneously. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> To: Recipient list suppressed Date: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 7:52 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: Wire Splicing > >> I am laying out my wiring diagram and have several areas >>where I will want to splice one wire into several others. I know this can >>be done with solder seal splices as well as crimped butt splices. What I >>can't seem to find any information on is how to determine what size crimp >>barrel to use. For instance, if I want to splice one 14 ga. wire to three >>22 ga. wires do I use a 14 ga. crimp barrel? Is there some way to convert >>multiple wire sizes into the equivalent single wire gauge? I know I can use >>terminal strips for some of this, but they take up a lot of space and add >>weight. Has anyone out there conquered this problem? > > Each three steps in wire gage is about a 2x change in copper > cross section. For example, three 22AWG wires would have about > the same copper as a 17AWG . . . A blue (14-16AWG) butt splice > would be fine for what you propose . . . > > The PROBLEM is that the circuit you've described must be protected > for 22AWG wire . . . it's okay to use 14AWG to extend a long circuit > for the purpose of lowering voltage drop but the circuit protection > needs to be sized for the SMALLEST wire in the circuit. > > What is your application where the three way split seems necessary? > > > Bob . . . > -------------------------------------------- > ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) > ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) > ( and still understand nothing. ) > ( C.F. Kettering ) > -------------------------------------------- > http://www.aeroelectric.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Wire Splicing (driving multiple loads from one output)
>> I am laying out my wiring diagram and have several areas >>where I will want to splice one wire into several others. I know this can >>be done with solder seal splices as well as crimped butt splices. What I >>can't seem to find any information on is how to determine what size crimp >>barrel to use. For instance, if I want to splice one 14 ga. wire to three >>22 ga. wires do I use a 14 ga. crimp barrel? Is there some way to convert >>multiple wire sizes into the equivalent single wire gauge? I know I can >>use terminal strips for some of this, but they take up a lot of space and add >>weight. Has anyone out there conquered this problem? >I don't know about the original poster's application, but in my case it's >panel and instrument lights. I can run all the grounds to the ground block >but what's the accepted way of getting 6-8 22ga wires connected at one >dimmer or switch? Multiple 3-to-1 butt splices? Ring terminals bolted >together? Here's the compact, low cost alternative to terminal strips . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/minibus.jpg Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) ( and still understand nothing. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: fuses
message posted by: MOOREWAR(at)aol.com >> >> I am using a fuse block for my main buss per Bob Nuckolls/Aeroelectic >> Connection. Does anyone know of a source for small amp fuses? Couple of my >> instruments call for a 1 and/or 2 amp fuse, smallest I have been able to find >> is a 3. >> >> Warren Moore >> RV4, firewall forward. >> We now stock the 1 and 2 amp fuses on our website catalog . . . See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/catalog.html Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) ( and still understand nothing. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Oil Coolers
Date: Jul 27, 2000
I believe I have a couple of posts in the achieves on the subject but after reading the current posts thought I could add some additional info from what I have learned and observed over the years. The engine oil temp on the Lycomings we are using is controlled by the thermostatic valve. This valve threads into the oil filter adapter, it looks like a heavy duty coil spring with a ball on the end. (Not a good description). On the top or the valve it should have the temperature setting stamped into it. This is usually 85C which converts to around 185F. From what I have been told, on a cold start oil pressures within the engine and cooler can be as high as 300 PSI. This is not indicated on the oil pressure gauge due to were the reading is being taken from. As the engine warms up the spring in the vernatherm valve begins to expand closing of the bypass and forcing more oil through the cooler to maintain the 185 F setting. I have found that this setting can vary five degrees or so either way. If the oil temperature goes above say 190 F it is telling us that we have reached the limit of the cooler's ability to cool the oil so cooler size and location becomes critical. The approach I took to it was based on past experience. As there was no standard installation for the RV6 with an 0360 that I was aware of I used some guide lines that I would be comfortable with, safety and reliably being the priority. I chose to use the Stewart Warner model 8432 because it is one of the most proven coolers with years of use and I had seen it used on other certified installations and have been told it will pressure test up to 600 PSI. The dimensions of the basic cooler is 3 1/2 inches thick, 5 1/2 x 8. With the two 90 degree fittings in the front it becomes 6 3/4 front to back. It is a 9 row cooler. I installed it under the left front engine baffle with a 4 x 5 3/4 opening in the baffle with the inlet and outlet fittings facing forward. There is ample room for it here. I didn't want to cut a hole in the back baffle and h ave the scat tube in the rear as associated with a firewall mounted installation and possible loss of cylinder cooling efficiency. On the other hand I wasn't sure what my installation would do the the cooling on #2 cylinder. I ran the cooler lines between the cylinders and the intake pipes to the accessory case. The end result was a pleasant surprise. I use a "Insight Gem" graphic display for engine monitoring and my 0360 is fuel injected. I have total control over my oil temps. Using 75% power for climb and 115-120 indicated the oil temp never exceeds 200, even at take-off temps as high as 95 F. By the time it reaches 195 to 200 you are in cool enough air and the power has dropped so that it returns to the thermo valve setting. In level flight at 65% it will maintain the basic setting flying in OAT as high as 100. Mounting in this location has no effect on the cooling of # 2 cylinder, all four as basically the same. Would be happy to help off the list to anyone interested, I also have pictures of the installation. Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2000
From: Chuck Weyant <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Coolers
Eustace Bowhay wrote: > Would be happy to help off the list to anyone interested, I also have > pictures of the installation. > Eustace, I'm building an RV9A and would be interested in some pics of the oil cooler installation if it wouldn't be too much trouble. -- Regards, Chuck Weyant EMail Me: chuck(at)chuckdirect.com WebSite: http://www.chuckdirect.com Santa Maria, CA 805 347-8882 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AAMRELECTR(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 27, 2000
Subject: Re: fuses
In a message dated 7/26/00 8:52:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, MOOREWAR(at)AOL.COM writes: << Does anyone know of a source for small amp fuses? >> Hi Warren: AAMR/Air Core/ATO/ATC Fuses We have them. Best regards, Robin@ AAMR/AirCore ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Jul 27, 2000
Subject: Re: Oil Coolers
ebowhay(at)
jetstream.net@matronics.com on 07/27/2000 12:54:02 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: RV-List: Thermostatic valve/oil temp (repost) I believe I have a couple of posts in the achieves on the subject but after reading the current posts thought I could add some additional info from what I have learned and observed over the years. The engine oil temp on the Lycomings we are using is controlled by the thermostatic valve. This valve threads into the oil filter adapter, it looks like a heavy duty coil spring with a ball on the end. (Not a good description). On the top or the valve it should have the temperature setting stamped into it. This is usually 85C which converts to around 185F. From what I have been told, on a cold start oil pressures within the engine and cooler can be as high as 300 PSI. This is not indicated on the oil pressure gauge due to were the reading is being taken from. As the engine warms up the spring in the vernatherm valve begins to expand closing of the bypass and forcing more oil through the cooler to maintain the 185 F setting. I have found that this setting can vary five degrees or so either way. If the oil temperature goes above say 190 F it is telling us that we have reached the limit of the cooler's ability to cool the oil so cooler size and location becomes critical. The approach I took to it was based on past experience. As there was no standard installation for the RV6 with an 0360 that I was aware of I used some guide lines that I would be comfortable with, safety and reliably being the priority. I chose to use the Stewart Warner model 8432 because it is one of the most proven coolers with years of use and I had seen it used on other certified installations and have been told it will pressure test up to 600 PSI. The dimensions of the basic cooler is 3 1/2 inches thick, 5 1/2 x 8. With the two 90 degree fittings in the front it becomes 6 3/4 front to back. It is a 9 row cooler. I installed it under the left front engine baffle with a 4 x 5 3/4 opening in the baffle with the inlet and outlet fittings facing forward. There is ample room for it here. I didn't want to cut a hole in the back baffle and h ave the scat tube in the rear as associated with a firewall mounted installation and possible loss of cylinder cooling efficiency. On the other hand I wasn't sure what my installation would do the the cooling on #2 cylinder. I ran the cooler lines between the cylinders and the intake pipes to the accessory case. The end result was a pleasant surprise. I use a "Insight Gem" graphic display for engine monitoring and my 0360 is fuel injected. I have total control over my oil temps. Using 75% power for climb and 115-120 indicated the oil temp never exceeds 200, even at take-off temps as high as 95 F. By the time it reaches 195 to 200 you are in cool enough air and the power has dropped so that it returns to the thermo valve setting. In level flight at 65% it will maintain the basic setting flying in OAT as high as 100. Mounting in this location has no effect on the cooling of # 2 cylinder, all four as basically the same. Would be happy to help off the list to anyone interested, I also have pictures of the installation. Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Jul 27, 2000
Subject: Re: Oil Coolers/Oil Pressure
Could someone likewise explain the oil pressure control system on the Lycomming ?. I have read up on it but am at a loss to find any data (now) in the Lycomming manual or in my collected reading pile. ebowhay(at)jetstream.net@matronics.com on 07/27/2000 12:54:02 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: RV-List: Oil Coolers I believe I have a couple of posts in the achieves on the subject but after reading the current posts thought I could add some additional info from what I have learned and observed over the years. The engine oil temp on the Lycomings we are using is controlled by the thermostatic valve. This valve threads into the oil filter adapter, it looks like a heavy duty coil spring with a ball on the end. (Not a good description). On the top or the valve it should have the temperature setting stamped into it. This is usually 85C which converts to around 185F. From what I have been told, on a cold start oil pressures within the engine and cooler can be as high as 300 PSI. This is not indicated on the oil pressure gauge due to were the reading is being taken from. As the engine warms up the spring in the vernatherm valve begins to expand closing of the bypass and forcing more oil through the cooler to maintain the 185 F setting. I have found that this setting can vary five degrees or so either way. If the oil temperature goes above say 190 F it is telling us that we have reached the limit of the cooler's ability to cool the oil so cooler size and location becomes critical. The approach I took to it was based on past experience. As there was no standard installation for the RV6 with an 0360 that I was aware of I used some guide lines that I would be comfortable with, safety and reliably being the priority. I chose to use the Stewart Warner model 8432 because it is one of the most proven coolers with years of use and I had seen it used on other certified installations and have been told it will pressure test up to 600 PSI. The dimensions of the basic cooler is 3 1/2 inches thick, 5 1/2 x 8. With the two 90 degree fittings in the front it becomes 6 3/4 front to back. It is a 9 row cooler. I installed it under the left front engine baffle with a 4 x 5 3/4 opening in the baffle with the inlet and outlet fittings facing forward. There is ample room for it here. I didn't want to cut a hole in the back baffle and h ave the scat tube in the rear as associated with a firewall mounted installation and possible loss of cylinder cooling efficiency. On the other hand I wasn't sure what my installation would do the the cooling on #2 cylinder. I ran the cooler lines between the cylinders and the intake pipes to the accessory case. The end result was a pleasant surprise. I use a "Insight Gem" graphic display for engine monitoring and my 0360 is fuel injected. I have total control over my oil temps. Using 75% power for climb and 115-120 indicated the oil temp never exceeds 200, even at take-off temps as high as 95 F. By the time it reaches 195 to 200 you are in cool enough air and the power has dropped so that it returns to the thermo valve setting. In level flight at 65% it will maintain the basic setting flying in OAT as high as 100. Mounting in this location has no effect on the cooling of # 2 cylinder, all four as basically the same. Would be happy to help off the list to anyone interested, I also have pictures of the installation. Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com.Thu,
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0004511424@mail-2.lbay.net>; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:54:56.-0700(at)matronics.com
Date: Jul 27, 2000
Subject: Re: Oil Coolers/Oil Pressure
Could someone likewise explain the oil pressure control system on the Lycomming ?. I have read up on it but am at a loss to find any data (now) in the Lycomming manual or in my collected reading pile. ebowhay(at)jetstream.net@matronics.com on 07/27/2000 12:54:02 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: RV-List: Oil Coolers I believe I have a couple of posts in the achieves on the subject but after reading the current posts thought I could add some additional info from what I have learned and observed over the years. The engine oil temp on the Lycomings we are using is controlled by the thermostatic valve. This valve threads into the oil filter adapter, it looks like a heavy duty coil spring with a ball on the end. (Not a good description). On the top or the valve it should have the temperature setting stamped into it. This is usually 85C which converts to around 185F. From what I have been told, on a cold start oil pressures within the engine and cooler can be as high as 300 PSI. This is not indicated on the oil pressure gauge due to were the reading is being taken from. As the engine warms up the spring in the vernatherm valve begins to expand closing of the bypass and forcing more oil through the cooler to maintain the 185 F setting. I have found that this setting can vary five degrees or so either way. If the oil temperature goes above say 190 F it is telling us that we have reached the limit of the cooler's ability to cool the oil so cooler size and location becomes critical. The approach I took to it was based on past experience. As there was no standard installation for the RV6 with an 0360 that I was aware of I used some guide lines that I would be comfortable with, safety and reliably being the priority. I chose to use the Stewart Warner model 8432 because it is one of the most proven coolers with years of use and I had seen it used on other certified installations and have been told it will pressure test up to 600 PSI. The dimensions of the basic cooler is 3 1/2 inches thick, 5 1/2 x 8. With the two 90 degree fittings in the front it becomes 6 3/4 front to back. It is a 9 row cooler. I installed it under the left front engine baffle with a 4 x 5 3/4 opening in the baffle with the inlet and outlet fittings facing forward. There is ample room for it here. I didn't want to cut a hole in the back baffle and h ave the scat tube in the rear as associated with a firewall mounted installation and possible loss of cylinder cooling efficiency. On the other hand I wasn't sure what my installation would do the the cooling on #2 cylinder. I ran the cooler lines between the cylinders and the intake pipes to the accessory case. The end result was a pleasant surprise. I use a "Insight Gem" graphic display for engine monitoring and my 0360 is fuel injected. I have total control over my oil temps. Using 75% power for climb and 115-120 indicated the oil temp never exceeds 200, even at take-off temps as high as 95 F. By the time it reaches 195 to 200 you are in cool enough air and the power has dropped so that it returns to the thermo valve setting. In level flight at 65% it will maintain the basic setting flying in OAT as high as 100. Mounting in this location has no effect on the cooling of # 2 cylinder, all four as basically the same. Would be happy to help off the list to anyone interested, I also have pictures of the installation. Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: What'll She Do?
Date: Jul 27, 2000
From: Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Listers, Some of you may have exaggerated your airplane's performance; shoot, I may have exaggerated my airplane's performance. Well, here is everyone's chance to prove it and have a good time doing it. The Pecos Valley Air Race and Fly-In is Saturday, October 28, 2000 at Artesia, New Mexico. Early arrivals on Friday, Oct. 27 can participate in a chili stew supper. The race itself starts at 11:00 AM on Saturday. It is a 100 statute mile triangle over sparsely populated and flat terrain. There will be 20 second interval staggered starts with the fastest leaving first and four classes: 200 cubic inches and below, 300 cubes, 400 cubes and 401 cubic inches and above. There will be food, paper airplane contests and other activities. Lodging: Pecos Inn Best Western, 505-748-3324 - Restaurant Holiday Inn Express, 505-748-3904 - Continental Breakfast The Artesia Airport has a limited number of tiedowns, so bring your own. Race pilots or people needing information and fliers to post call 505-622-3458. The airport phone is 505-748-3206. This event is sponsored by the EAA chapters at Moriarity, Roswell, Carlsbad and the City of Artesia and is being spearheaded by Tom & Lynn Benedict who have a reputation of being excellent hosts. They had to finally end the fly-in at their house in Dexter because it became too popular. I'm looking forward to flying with/against people from at least Phoenix/Tucson, Denver/Colorado Springs, Lubbock, Dallas/Ft. Worth, Albuquerque and the smaller towns within that area. Come on out! Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 27, 2000
Subject: Re: Cockpit size question
In a message dated 7/27/00 2:58:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jhstarn(at)earthlink.net writes: << How wide are the cockpits at hips and shoulder on Ercoupe, Alon, Colt, Skipper, RV-6a, RV-9a, Yankee, Tommyhawk, 150, 172, Kitfox and any other nose drager 2 place or 2 place+. >> My RV-6 (built to plans) cockpit is 42.5 wide except at the canopy deck (39.5"), and at the arm rests (37"). My Tomahawk was noticably wider at the shoulders, and a 150 is noticably narrower. I don't have either of these types in my garage, or I'd be glad to measure them for ya... Kyle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "russell parr" <rrparr12(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Any Detroit area RV'ers out there?
Date: Jul 27, 2000
I have just taken a job at Willow Run airport. I have an RV-4 and I'm looking for a place to tie down/hangar it. I want to be able to get to Willow Run within 20 minutes from where I keep my airplane because I'll be on call with this new job. If there are any Detroit area general aviation types out there who might want a hangar partner or know where good deals are to keep an airplane near Willow Run please let me know. Thanks, Russ Parr ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Dupont ChromaBase
Date: Jul 27, 2000
List: I just tried some light gray Dupont ChromaBase Single Stage paint on the interior of my RV6-A and it looks great!! The paint dried to dust in 10-15 min. and has good shine requiring NO BUFFING. I have always used PPG Base Coat-Clear coat on my cars but this went on so easy and has to be lighter that I am thinking of using it on the outside as well. Have any of you builders used this product for the outside finish? Tom in Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MOOREWAR(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 27, 2000
Subject: fuese
Thanks guys, ordering them now from Bob. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: opening a tip-up canpy
Hi, I am looking for some ideas on a way to make it possible to open the tip-up canopy on an RV-6. I have seen small pieces of angle stock riveted to the side of the canopy, but doesn't that require two people to lift it simultaneously? Has anyone done a retractable handle located on the center of the top of the canopy? how about a spring plunger located in the center that opens the canopy slightly as soon as the latch is released? Any ideas? Thanks, Glenn Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: opening a tip-up canpy
Date: Jul 28, 2000
> >Hi, > >I am looking for some ideas on a way to make it possible to open the >tip-up canopy on an RV-6. I have seen small pieces of angle stock >riveted to the side of the canopy, but doesn't that require two people >to lift it simultaneously? Has anyone done a retractable handle located >on the center of the top of the canopy? how about a spring plunger >located in the center that opens the canopy slightly as soon as the >latch is released? > >Any ideas? > >Thanks, >Glenn Gordon > Seems to me that you're over complicating a simple situation. My RV-6 had a tip-up canopy. I simply added a small angle on the left side of the canopy and lifted it up from there. The canopy is light enough that you can easily do that without warping or bending the frame. The KISS principle is important; don't bother trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. John Ammeter 1975 Jensen Healey RV-6 (sold 4/98) EAA Technical Counselor NRA Life Member Council Member, Snohomish Indian Tribe http://members.home.net/ammeterj ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Dupont ChromaBase
Date: Jul 27, 2000
Similar question . . . I'm looking at Sherwin Williams Sunfire epoxy paint for my interior (available through their auto paints division). Any comments on pro's, con's, what to look out for??? Thanks in advance, Rick Jory, Highlands Ranch, CO (RV8A) -----Original Message----- From: Tom & Cathy Ervin <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> Date: Thursday, July 27, 2000 7:45 PM Subject: RV-List: Dupont ChromaBase > >List: I just tried some light gray Dupont ChromaBase Single Stage paint on >the interior of my RV6-A and it looks great!! > The paint dried to dust in 10-15 min. and has good shine requiring NO >BUFFING. I have always used PPG Base Coat-Clear coat on my cars but this >went on so easy and has to be lighter that I am thinking of using it on the >outside as well. > Have any of you builders used this product for the outside finish? > Tom >in Ohio > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvator97(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 27, 2000
Subject: Re: opening a tip-up canpy
Glenn: John had the right idea.... small angle on pilot side is all you need. I installed one on my 6A, works great. I use the angle to just get the canopy started, then lift it with the other hand at the top center. Simple/easy. Walt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2000
From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)azstarnet.com>
Subject: Re: Mounting LRI probe
Nancy and Walter Shipley wrote: > Tom, I mounted my LRI probe assembly on the first inboard inspection plate > of my left wing. In this position, although the probe base is behind the > spar, the openings in the probe are well within the specified distance from > the leading edge (16 - 17") since the probe angles forward. > > Hope this makes sense > > Walt Shipley RV8A QB > N314TS Reserved Walt: I checked the measurements, and I believe you are correct, no more than 18 inches anyway. Did you replace the cover plate on the aileron bell crank instaction port? Also, If you're flying with it, how does the unit work with the probe in that position? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2000
From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)azstarnet.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Wire Conduit Question
Monsterpin(at)AOL.COM wrote: > > I have heard of people using PVC or similar conduit in the wings for conduit > for running electrical wire. Has anyone done this and could provide some > guidance?? I have 1/2" OD PVC pipe, do I drill the hole in the ribs to 1/2" > so the fit tight, or larger and included a grommet?? If a grommet, what > type?? Any help (pictures?) etc would be greatly appreciated. Thanks > -Mike Mike: Van's advised me to go to the hardware store and buy half inch polyethylene tubing (practically any type of tubing is OK). I drilled half inch holes thru the wing ribs using my step drill. I also made a little template to position it relative to the spar & skin. The tubing slid thru easily. I don't think grommets are necessary. My EAA tech counselor said last week that you can use larger tubing tubing also. I think after I get everything finally assembled, I'll put a dab of RTV or Ultra-blue on it to keep it from sliding around. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2000
From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)azstarnet.com>
Subject: Re: removing flap pins
Glenn & Judi wrote: > Hi, > If I put my flaps on with the recommended 1 piece hinge pin, it seems > that if I ever have to remove the flap for servicing, the whole wing > will have to be removed so that I could pull the pin out. Two > alternatives I see would be: > 1. Two pin pieces pin that pulls out from the center of the flap (must > remove some hinge eyelets) > 2. One piece pin that pulls through a hold drilled in the aileron > brace. > > What are other builders out there doing? > Glenn: My eaa tech counselor has built an RV-6A (soon to fly, finally) and says he drilled the hole in the aileron brace. He's been in aircraft maintenance all his life, so I take his suggestions seriously. I think as long as it is VERY well secured (secure it with a #6 screw next to it and put a nylock nut on the screw) it is a good idea. I plan to do it too. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net
Date: May 17, 2000
Subject: Re: opening a tip-up canpy
Glenn, A small piece of angle stock on the side is exactly how I have it. I lift up the canopy with my left hand just enough for my right index and middle fingers to get under the center part of the canopy. Then lift up the rest of the way using both hands. You'll find this works quite well. You'll also find that pushing inward while lifting with your left hand initially will help p the canopy moving straight up rather than slightly sideways. Anh N985VU Maryland > >Hi, > >I am looking for some ideas on a way to make it possible to open the >tip-up canopy on an RV-6. I have seen small pieces of angle stock >riveted to the side of the canopy, but doesn't that require two people >to lift it simultaneously? Has anyone done a retractable handle located >on the center of the top of the canopy? how about a spring plunger >located in the center that opens the canopy slightly as soon as the >latch is released? > >Any ideas? > >Thanks, >Glenn Gordon > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AAMRELECTR(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 28, 2000
Subject: (no subject)
nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com Hello Listers: Please go to my Home Page and read the announcement. I am closing AAMR/AirCore/ Reasons for this move are on this page. I am leaving the How To Pages up for your info finding needs. So it's been fun and work. Please support Electric Bob...He's a great guy and a valuable asset. Send him your orders and maybe he can keep his doors open. Best regards, John Caldwell @ AAMR/Ai rCore ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 28, 2000
Subject: Re: Dupont ChromaBase
In a message dated 7/27/00 7:20:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, tcervin(at)valkyrie.net writes: << I just tried some light gray Dupont ChromaBase Single Stage paint on the interior of my RV6-A and it looks great!! The paint dried to dust in 10-15 min. and has good shine requiring NO BUFFING. I have always used PPG Base Coat-Clear coat on my cars but this went on so easy and has to be lighter that I am thinking of using it on the outside as well. Have any of you builders used this product for the outside finish? >> ChromaBase or Chroma One? My plane was painted by Randy Ford of T&P Aerofinishers using scotchbrite burnish, alumiprep, alodine, Sterling Epoxy Primer and DuPont Chroma One. Trim colors are ChromaBase with Clearcoat. It was my understanding that ChromaBase alone is not a catalyzed finish (the catalyst is in the Clearcoat) and may therefore remain solvent (fuel) sensitive. -GV (RV-6A N1GV) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM.Fri,
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <
B0004517370@mail-2.lbay.net>; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:37:12.-0700(at)matronics.com
Date: Jul 27, 2000
Subject: Re: Cockpit size question
In a message dated 7/27/00 2:58:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jhstarn(at)earthlink.net writes: << How wide are the cockpits at hips and shoulder on Ercoupe, Alon, Colt, Skipper, RV-6a, RV-9a, Yankee, Tommyhawk, 150, 172, Kitfox and any other nose drager 2 place or 2 place+. >> My RV-6 (built to plans) cockpit is 42.5 wide except at the canopy deck (39.5"), and at the arm rests (37"). My Tomahawk was noticably wider at the shoulders, and a 150 is noticably narrower. I don't have either of these types in my garage, or I'd be glad to measure them for ya... Kyle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "russell parr" <rrparr12(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Any Detroit area RV'ers out there?
Date: Jul 27, 2000
I have just taken a job at Willow Run airport. I have an RV-4 and I'm looking for a place to tie down/hangar it. I want to be able to get to Willow Run within 20 minutes from where I keep my airplane because I'll be on call with this new job. If there are any Detroit area general aviation types out there who might want a hangar partner or know where good deals are to keep an airplane near Willow Run please let me know. Thanks, Russ Parr ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Dupont ChromaBase
Date: Jul 27, 2000
List: I just tried some light gray Dupont ChromaBase Single Stage paint on the interior of my RV6-A and it looks great!! The paint dried to dust in 10-15 min. and has good shine requiring NO BUFFING. I have always used PPG Base Coat-Clear coat on my cars but this went on so easy and has to be lighter that I am thinking of using it on the outside as well. Have any of you builders used this product for the outside finish? Tom in Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MOOREWAR(at)AOL.COM.Fri,
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0004522955@mail-2.lbay.net>; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:12:29.-0700(at)matronics.com
Date: Jul 27, 2000
Subject: fuese
Thanks guys, ordering them now from Bob. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: opening a tip-up canpy
Hi, I am looking for some ideas on a way to make it possible to open the tip-up canopy on an RV-6. I have seen small pieces of angle stock riveted to the side of the canopy, but doesn't that require two people to lift it simultaneously? Has anyone done a retractable handle located on the center of the top of the canopy? how about a spring plunger located in the center that opens the canopy slightly as soon as the latch is released? Any ideas? Thanks, Glenn Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: opening a tip-up canpy
Date: Jul 28, 2000
> >Hi, > >I am looking for some ideas on a way to make it possible to open the >tip-up canopy on an RV-6. I have seen small pieces of angle stock >riveted to the side of the canopy, but doesn't that require two people >to lift it simultaneously? Has anyone done a retractable handle located >on the center of the top of the canopy? how about a spring plunger >located in the center that opens the canopy slightly as soon as the >latch is released? > >Any ideas? > >Thanks, >Glenn Gordon > Seems to me that you're over complicating a simple situation. My RV-6 had a tip-up canopy. I simply added a small angle on the left side of the canopy and lifted it up from there. The canopy is light enough that you can easily do that without warping or bending the frame. The KISS principle is important; don't bother trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. John Ammeter 1975 Jensen Healey RV-6 (sold 4/98) EAA Technical Counselor NRA Life Member Council Member, Snohomish Indian Tribe http://members.home.net/ammeterj ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Dupont ChromaBase
Date: Jul 27, 2000
Similar question . . . I'm looking at Sherwin Williams Sunfire epoxy paint for my interior (available through their auto paints division). Any comments on pro's, con's, what to look out for??? Thanks in advance, Rick Jory, Highlands Ranch, CO (RV8A) -----Original Message----- From: Tom & Cathy Ervin <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> Date: Thursday, July 27, 2000 7:45 PM Subject: RV-List: Dupont ChromaBase > >List: I just tried some light gray Dupont ChromaBase Single Stage paint on >the interior of my RV6-A and it looks great!! > The paint dried to dust in 10-15 min. and has good shine requiring NO >BUFFING. I have always used PPG Base Coat-Clear coat on my cars but this >went on so easy and has to be lighter that I am thinking of using it on the >outside as well. > Have any of you builders used this product for the outside finish? > Tom >in Ohio > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvator97(at)AOL.COM.Fri,
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0004524454@mail-2.lbay.net>; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:16:52.-0700(at)matronics.com
Date: Jul 27, 2000
Subject: Re: opening a tip-up canpy
Glenn: John had the right idea.... small angle on pilot side is all you need. I installed one on my 6A, works great. I use the angle to just get the canopy started, then lift it with the other hand at the top center. Simple/easy. Walt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2000
From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)azstarnet.com>
Subject: Re: Mounting LRI probe
Nancy and Walter Shipley wrote: > Tom, I mounted my LRI probe assembly on the first inboard inspection plate > of my left wing. In this position, although the probe base is behind the > spar, the openings in the probe are well within the specified distance from > the leading edge (16 - 17") since the probe angles forward. > > Hope this makes sense > > Walt Shipley RV8A QB > N314TS Reserved Walt: I checked the measurements, and I believe you are correct, no more than 18 inches anyway. Did you replace the cover plate on the aileron bell crank instaction port? Also, If you're flying with it, how does the unit work with the probe in that position? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2000
From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)azstarnet.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Wire Conduit Question
Monsterpin(at)AOL.COM wrote: > > I have heard of people using PVC or similar conduit in the wings for conduit > for running electrical wire. Has anyone done this and could provide some > guidance?? I have 1/2" OD PVC pipe, do I drill the hole in the ribs to 1/2" > so the fit tight, or larger and included a grommet?? If a grommet, what > type?? Any help (pictures?) etc would be greatly appreciated. Thanks > -Mike Mike: Van's advised me to go to the hardware store and buy half inch polyethylene tubing (practically any type of tubing is OK). I drilled half inch holes thru the wing ribs using my step drill. I also made a little template to position it relative to the spar & skin. The tubing slid thru easily. I don't think grommets are necessary. My EAA tech counselor said last week that you can use larger tubing tubing also. I think after I get everything finally assembled, I'll put a dab of RTV or Ultra-blue on it to keep it from sliding around. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2000
From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)azstarnet.com>
Subject: Re: removing flap pins
Glenn & Judi wrote: > Hi, > If I put my flaps on with the recommended 1 piece hinge pin, it seems > that if I ever have to remove the flap for servicing, the whole wing > will have to be removed so that I could pull the pin out. Two > alternatives I see would be: > 1. Two pin pieces pin that pulls out from the center of the flap (must > remove some hinge eyelets) > 2. One piece pin that pulls through a hold drilled in the aileron > brace. > > What are other builders out there doing? > Glenn: My eaa tech counselor has built an RV-6A (soon to fly, finally) and says he drilled the hole in the aileron brace. He's been in aircraft maintenance all his life, so I take his suggestions seriously. I think as long as it is VERY well secured (secure it with a #6 screw next to it and put a nylock nut on the screw) it is a good idea. I plan to do it too. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net.Fri,
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0004525858@mail-2.lbay.net>; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:28:04.-0700(at)matronics.com
Date: May 17, 2000
Subject: Re: opening a tip-up canpy
Glenn, A small piece of angle stock on the side is exactly how I have it. I lift up the canopy with my left hand just enough for my right index and middle fingers to get under the center part of the canopy. Then lift up the rest of the way using both hands. You'll find this works quite well. You'll also find that pushing inward while lifting with your left hand initially will help p the canopy moving straight up rather than slightly sideways. Anh N985VU Maryland > >Hi, > >I am looking for some ideas on a way to make it possible to open the >tip-up canopy on an RV-6. I have seen small pieces of angle stock >riveted to the side of the canopy, but doesn't that require two people >to lift it simultaneously? Has anyone done a retractable handle located >on the center of the top of the canopy? how about a spring plunger >located in the center that opens the canopy slightly as soon as the >latch is released? > >Any ideas? > >Thanks, >Glenn Gordon > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)AOL.COM.Fri,
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0004527365@mail-2.lbay.net>; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:59:38.-0700(at)matronics.com
Date: Jul 28, 2000
Subject: Re: Dupont ChromaBase
In a message dated 7/27/00 7:20:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, tcervin(at)valkyrie.net writes: << I just tried some light gray Dupont ChromaBase Single Stage paint on the interior of my RV6-A and it looks great!! The paint dried to dust in 10-15 min. and has good shine requiring NO BUFFING. I have always used PPG Base Coat-Clear coat on my cars but this went on so easy and has to be lighter that I am thinking of using it on the outside as well. Have any of you builders used this product for the outside finish? >> ChromaBase or Chroma One? My plane was painted by Randy Ford of T&P Aerofinishers using scotchbrite burnish, alumiprep, alodine, Sterling Epoxy Primer and DuPont Chroma One. Trim colors are ChromaBase with Clearcoat. It was my understanding that ChromaBase alone is not a catalyzed finish (the catalyst is in the Clearcoat) and may therefore remain solvent (fuel) sensitive. -GV (RV-6A N1GV) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2000
From: Graham Murphy <jgmurphy(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Rear Spar to Rib rivet locations
Folks I am preparing my Rear Spar components and note that Dwg 14 shows the two flange Strips W-607B & C 3 3/4 inch apart, but does not give a dimension locating these "vertically". This may not seem a big deal until you sit a rib against the rear spar and realise that at ribs 4 & 5 the lowest rivet will have marginl edge distance in the rib flange. The problem is complicated by Vans dwgs not showing that the outboard rivets need to be less than 3/4 inch from the Strap edges,due to strap taper, location at at mid strap width would be logical. From my preliminary measurements I beleive that the upper strap (W-607C)has to be located hard up into the top flange radius, and of course have it's edge bevelled/radiused to fit flat. If this is not done the lower strap will be too low and the lowest rivet will only have about 1 diameter edge distance in the rib flange. What say you have all been down this road. Thanks Graham Murphy Wintery Blenheim New Zealand RV-6A empennage and stating wing bits (cant build wing jig yet moving house October). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Re: Dupont ChromaBase
Date: Jul 28, 2000
ChromaBase is the name for the Dupont Line and covers all the products in the line. Single stage is ChromaOne. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Vanremog(at)AOL.COM> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 1:50 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Dupont ChromaBase > > In a message dated 7/27/00 7:20:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > tcervin(at)valkyrie.net writes: > > << I just tried some light gray Dupont ChromaBase Single Stage paint on > the interior of my RV6-A and it looks great!! > The paint dried to dust in 10-15 min. and has good shine requiring NO > BUFFING. I have always used PPG Base Coat-Clear coat on my cars but this > went on so easy and has to be lighter that I am thinking of using it on the > outside as well. > Have any of you builders used this product for the outside finish? >> > > ChromaBase or Chroma One? My plane was painted by Randy Ford of T&P > Aerofinishers using scotchbrite burnish, alumiprep, alodine, Sterling Epoxy > Primer and DuPont Chroma One. Trim colors are ChromaBase with Clearcoat. It > was my understanding that ChromaBase alone is not a catalyzed finish (the > catalyst is in the Clearcoat) and may therefore remain solvent (fuel) > sensitive. > > -GV (RV-6A N1GV) > vanremog(at)aol.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Jul 28, 2000
Subject: Re: Dupont ChromaBase
Sherwin Williams Sunfire epoxy paint wears like concrete. Very durable and wear resistant. The Dupont ChromaBase is also a superior product with easier clean-up. I've used both and both are good products. Rumor has it that Sunfire is used on missles other hi-tech applications and also chemical plants use it. My most recent purchase was the Dupont ChromaBase because the store was closer, the product was a little cheeper, it was Saturday & I was lazy and I didn't quite need the qualities of the Sunfire product. rickjory(at)email.msn.com@matronics.com on 07/27/2000 10:54:17 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: Re: RV-List: Dupont ChromaBase Similar question . . . I'm looking at Sherwin Williams Sunfire epoxy paint for my interior (available through their auto paints division). Any comments on pro's, con's, what to look out for??? Thanks in advance, Rick Jory, Highlands Ranch, CO (RV8A) -----Original Message----- From: Tom & Cathy Ervin <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> Date: Thursday, July 27, 2000 7:45 PM Subject: RV-List: Dupont ChromaBase > >List: I just tried some light gray Dupont ChromaBase Single Stage paint on >the interior of my RV6-A and it looks great!! > The paint dried to dust in 10-15 min. and has good shine requiring NO >BUFFING. I have always used PPG Base Coat-Clear coat on my cars but this >went on so easy and has to be lighter that I am thinking of using it on the >outside as well. > Have any of you builders used this product for the outside finish? > Tom >in Ohio > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Jul 28, 2000
Subject: Re: Wing Wire Conduit Question
I went to the hardware store and purchased closeline prop-up poles. They were aluimum , thin walled & cheap. I lopped off the ends, primed & used adel clamps to hold in position inside my lightning holes. Installation was quick. sarg314(at)azstarnet.com on 07/27/2000 11:38:55 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Wire Conduit Question Monsterpin(at)AOL.COM wrote: > > I have heard of people using PVC or similar conduit in the wings for conduit > for running electrical wire. Has anyone done this and could provide some > guidance?? I have 1/2" OD PVC pipe, do I drill the hole in the ribs to 1/2" > so the fit tight, or larger and included a grommet?? If a grommet, what > type?? Any help (pictures?) etc would be greatly appreciated. Thanks > -Mike Mike: Van's advised me to go to the hardware store and buy half inch polyethylene tubing (practically any type of tubing is OK). I drilled half inch holes thru the wing ribs using my step drill. I also made a little template to position it relative to the spar & skin. The tubing slid thru easily. I don't think grommets are necessary. My EAA tech counselor said last week that you can use larger tubing tubing also. I think after I get everything finally assembled, I'll put a dab of RTV or Ultra-blue on it to keep it from sliding around. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2000
From: Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: F-802 riveting questions
I'm just finishing up riveting my fuse and a couple of questions have arisen: 1) The manual calls for the bolts to be installed between the F-802N upper brace and the gear boxes, but makes no mention of the rivets in the same area. Is there any reason not to install those rivets at this point? 2) This section of the manual makes no mention of permanently riveting and bolting the F-802T upper brace to the gear boxes, but I couldn't find it called out later. Shall I also install this piece now? Various comments on the vagaries of the manual withheld... :-) -- Regards, Ken Balch Ashland, MA RV-8 #81125 N118KB (reserved) riveting fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Jul 28, 2000
Subject: Re: F-802 riveting questions
I know this is a half-assed answer but is there any harm leaving a clecko or two there in lieu of a rivet now ?. Every question I ever had regarding plans was eventaully made clear-------- sometime later. I allways made a note of my apparent confusion on the plans with a date......sometime later, often on another related part, the light finally goes on. Other times I look at my note and can't figure what the problem is......it all makes sence now......go figure. Actually, the clecko in place untill otherwise figured out-- is the lazy mans way out. It is actually more time consuming to rebuild/undrill or otherwise repair a part I was to eager with in the firstplace....... kbalch1(at)mediaone.net on 07/28/2000 11:44:16 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: F-802 riveting questions I'm just finishing up riveting my fuse and a couple of questions have arisen: 1) The manual calls for the bolts to be installed between the F-802N upper brace and the gear boxes, but makes no mention of the rivets in the same area. Is there any reason not to install those rivets at this point? 2) This section of the manual makes no mention of permanently riveting and bolting the F-802T upper brace to the gear boxes, but I couldn't find it called out later. Shall I also install this piece now? Various comments on the vagaries of the manual withheld... :-) -- Regards, Ken Balch Ashland, MA RV-8 #81125 N118KB (reserved) riveting fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Jul 28, 2000
Subject: Re: opening a tip-up canpy
The spring assist/gas shocks on the canopy also distributes the bending moment and aids in the ballance & lift of the canopy. The shocks do assist in the lift ,so the weight you are worried about is shared by the canopy pivots & gas shocks. I agree with the poster that there is no real issue here.......... ammeterj(at)home.com@matronics.com on 07/27/2000 10:58:28 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: Re: RV-List: opening a tip-up canpy > >Hi, > >I am looking for some ideas on a way to make it possible to open the >tip-up canopy on an RV-6. I have seen small pieces of angle stock >riveted to the side of the canopy, but doesn't that require two people >to lift it simultaneously? Has anyone done a retractable handle located >on the center of the top of the canopy? how about a spring plunger >located in the center that opens the canopy slightly as soon as the >latch is released? > >Any ideas? > >Thanks, >Glenn Gordon > Seems to me that you're over complicating a simple situation. My RV-6 had a tip-up canopy. I simply added a small angle on the left side of the canopy and lifted it up from there. The canopy is light enough that you can easily do that without warping or bending the frame. The KISS principle is important; don't bother trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. John Ammeter 1975 Jensen Healey RV-6 (sold 4/98) EAA Technical Counselor NRA Life Member Council Member, Snohomish Indian Tribe http://members.home.net/ammeterj ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: AAMR/AirCore/MarineCore Closure
Date: Jul 28, 2000
John, I am sorry to hear that the we home builders were not able to rally around your business. I found it to be one of the best retail sites around and by far the best for electrical supplies. Your service was great, the prices fair and the "extra" info a real bonus. I wish you all the best in your next venture. Ross Mickey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Dupont ChromaBase
Date: Jul 28, 2000
Rick, I used the SW Sunfire Epoxy for my interior. I added a flattening agent to it as I didn't want a glossy finish for the interior. It when on very easy and has a good durable finish. While I 'm not flying yet (next month) it has held up to my dropping tools, wire, nuts/bolts and everything else and hasn't chipped. Mike Robertson RV-8A almost there, almost there >From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Dupont ChromaBase >Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:54:17 -0600 > > >Similar question . . . I'm looking at Sherwin Williams Sunfire epoxy paint >for my interior (available through their auto paints division). Any >comments on pro's, con's, what to look out for??? Thanks in advance, >Rick Jory, Highlands Ranch, CO (RV8A) >-----Original Message----- >From: Tom & Cathy Ervin <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Date: Thursday, July 27, 2000 7:45 PM >Subject: RV-List: Dupont ChromaBase > > > > > >List: I just tried some light gray Dupont ChromaBase Single Stage paint >on > >the interior of my RV6-A and it looks great!! > > The paint dried to dust in 10-15 min. and has good shine requiring >NO > >BUFFING. I have always used PPG Base Coat-Clear coat on my cars but this > >went on so easy and has to be lighter that I am thinking of using it on >the > >outside as well. > > Have any of you builders used this product for the outside finish? > > >Tom > >in Ohio > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2000
From: Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: F-802 riveting questions
No harm, per se, but it's a lot easier to get the rivet gun on the rivets with the side skins off. Once the side skins are in place, it'll be difficult to get a good shot at the rivets even with an offset rivet set in the gun. I've certainly left my share of clecos in while awaiting enlightenment, but had hoped to avoid that here for this reason. I called Van's, but was told that no technical assistance will be Ken pcondon(at)csc.com wrote: > > I know this is a half-assed answer but is there any harm leaving a clecko or two > there in lieu of a rivet now ?. Every question I ever had regarding plans was > eventaully made clear-------- sometime later. I allways made a note of my > apparent confusion on the plans with a date......sometime later, often on > another related part, the light finally goes on. Other times I look at my note > and can't figure what the problem is......it all makes sence now......go figure. > Actually, the clecko in place untill otherwise figured out-- is the lazy mans > way out. It is actually more time consuming to rebuild/undrill or otherwise > repair a part I was to eager with in the firstplace....... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Troy Whistman <TroyW(at)digitalmd.com>
Subject: Rudder bottom--with or w/o tail light provision?
Date: Jul 28, 2000
Guys, I'm filling out my empennage order for an RV-8, and I'm supposed to circle whether I want a rudder bottom WITH or WITHOUT provision for a tail light... what's the general concensus? I have no idea!! Troy Whistman Fort Worth ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder bottom--with or w/o tail light provision?
Date: Jul 28, 2000
Troy, I opted for WITHOUT because I didn't want any wire runs to the tail. I have the Aeroflash units that are on the wingtips and has the strobes, and nav/position lights built into each unit. Some folks opt for strobe and nav light encased in the leading edges of wing tips that has a lense cover over it and the position light in the rudder for aerodynamics. This limits viewing angles of the lights in the wing tips. You can always order it without and Van's will swap it if you change your mind. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6 fuse (aeroflash units in wing tips and wig-wag landing lights......very visible!!) ----- Original Message ----- From: Troy Whistman <TroyW(at)digitalmd.com> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 6:51 PM Subject: RV-List: Rudder bottom--with or w/o tail light provision? > > Guys, > > I'm filling out my empennage order for an RV-8, and I'm supposed to circle > whether I want a rudder bottom WITH or WITHOUT provision for a tail light... > what's the general concensus? I have no idea!! > > Troy Whistman > Fort Worth > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 28, 2000
Subject: Re: Rudder bottom--with or w/o tail light provision?
troy, first question to answer is are you going to fly at night? if so, you can have wing tip nav lights (red and green) with white aft hat can be seen from the rear, if you enclose your nav lights in side the wing tip fiberglass they can not be seen from the rear and you must have light in tail, make sense? in other words you must have position light that can be seen from the rear one way or another. i probably will install on wing tip with white aft and rudder also. vans ass. catalogue in the lighting section explains the regs on this, or you can try www.aeroflash.com and www. whelan??? not sure spelling on last, some of the listers can tell ya however i think at the whealn site you can see a pic explaining what i tried up top. bob in arkansas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N95MF(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 28, 2000
Subject: Re: Drilling Canopy
In a message dated 7/26/00 9:29:39 AM Central Daylight Time, akroguy(at)hotmail.com writes: > You should be fine with the rivets. I followed the same drilling procedure, > used rivets per plans and no cracks. The canopy has been slammed aft a > couple of times (not intentionally!) during winter and summer temps, and no > problems at all. The source of my problems with canopy cracks was uneven expansion/shrinking of the 4130 frame and the plexi. It occurred at the very back of the canopy. It gets HOT here in Texas. Mark Goldberg RV-8 N982RV 107 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2000
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net>
Subject: Need to contact Shirt vendor from W. Palm Beach
Listers, Sorry to bother you with this. I dumped a lot of old email when I upgraded my PC. I am looking for the gentleman from the Palm Beach, Florida area who offered to produce RV related shirts in time for Sun N' Fun this past spring. Can anyone give me the name and email address of this gentleman?? He's probably at Oshkosh now. Charlie Kuss RV-8 wings riveting wing skins Boca Raton, Fl. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2000
From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)azstarnet.com>
Subject: tip up without gas shocks?
I ask this question from ignorance - I haven't opened an RV tip-up canopy and I haven't gotten to building mine yet - but after listening to all this discussion I have to ask if there isn't a practical alternative to the gas shocks. The hood on my Toyota has no springs on it. I just lift it up and swing a steel rod into place to keep it up. (Granted, I'm standing infront ot the hood when I do that, not sitting underneath the center of it.) But would it be possible to replace the tip-up's gas struts with straight rods that just latch into place when the canopy is lifted up by some other means? I'm thinking real low tech here ,trying to imagine a system that exerts no force when the canopy is closed. How hard is it to just manually push the canopy up without the assist from the gas shocks? Can those of you with experience with tip-ups imagine using a rod 2 or 3 feet long to just push straight up on the portion of the canopy (suitably protected of course) above your head until the braces imagined above would lock into place? I considered replacing the gas strut with a hand-pumped hydraulic pistons, but that would probably weigh 6 times as much and be a lot more complicated than the gas struts. Maybe a pulley system with steel cable? Well, you get the idea. So, (Reaching for my asbestos overcoat) how crazy is this line of reasoning? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: tip up without gas shocks?
Date: Jul 29, 2000
> >I ask this question from ignorance - I haven't opened an RV tip-up canopy and I >haven't gotten to building mine yet - but after listening to all this >discussion I have to ask if there isn't a practical alternative to the gas >shocks. The hood on my Toyota has no springs on it. I just lift it up and >swing a steel rod into place to keep it up. (Granted, I'm standing infront ot >the hood when I do that, not sitting underneath the center of it.) But would >it be possible to replace the tip-up's gas struts with straight rods that just >latch into place when the canopy is lifted up by some other means? I'm >thinking real low tech here ,trying to imagine a system that exerts no force >when the canopy is closed. > > How hard is it to just manually push the canopy up without the assist from >the gas shocks? Can those of you with experience with tip-ups imagine using a >rod 2 or 3 feet long to just push straight up on the portion of the canopy >(suitably protected of course) above your head until the braces imagined above >would lock into place? > > I considered replacing the gas strut with a hand-pumped hydraulic pistons, >but that would probably weigh 6 times as much and be a lot more complicated >than the gas struts. Maybe a pulley system with steel cable? Well, you get >the idea. > >So, (Reaching for my asbestos overcoat) how crazy is this line of reasoning? > This is not unreasonable at all. My tip-up had no gas struts. I simply used the support in the plans. That support is about 7" long and located in front of the instrument panel. It easily supported the canopy. John Ammeter 1975 Jensen Healey RV-6 (sold 4/98) EAA Technical Counselor NRA Life Member Council Member, Snohomish Indian Tribe http://members.home.net/ammeterj ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2000
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: tip up without gas shocks?
tom sargent wrote: > > > I ask this question from ignorance - I haven't opened an RV tip-up canopy and I > haven't gotten to building mine yet - but after listening to all this > discussion I have to ask if there isn't a practical alternative to the gas > shocks. The hood on my Toyota has no springs on it. I just lift it up and > swing a steel rod into place to keep it up. (Granted, I'm standing infront ot > the hood when I do that, not sitting underneath the center of it.) But would > it be possible to replace the tip-up's gas struts with straight rods that just > latch into place when the canopy is lifted up by some other means? I'm > thinking real low tech here ,trying to imagine a system that exerts no force > when the canopy is closed. > > How hard is it to just manually push the canopy up without the assist from > the gas shocks? Can those of you with experience with tip-ups imagine using a > rod 2 or 3 feet long to just push straight up on the portion of the canopy > (suitably protected of course) above your head until the braces imagined above > would lock into place? > > I considered replacing the gas strut with a hand-pumped hydraulic pistons, > but that would probably weigh 6 times as much and be a lot more complicated > than the gas struts. Maybe a pulley system with steel cable? Well, you get > the idea. > > So, (Reaching for my asbestos overcoat) how crazy is this line of reasoning? > Ok here goes:) Originally the tip ups had a latch system that John Ammeter described in an earlier post. That is the system that I used for about the first 3 to 4 year on my RV-6. As John said it did its job as designed and actually worked very well. The reason that I changed to the gas struts is because I saw the canopy on my hanger partners RV-6 get blasted by some wind one day. The latch rod came unhooked and allowed the then unsupported canopy to fall forward which did a fair amount of damage to the forward edge of the canopy. The gas struts if installed properly work really great, you can start the canopy up and just let go of the canopy and it well rise up by itself. About the last two inches of travel the upward movement well slow to just about nothing as it comes to a stop. The gas struts do add a lot of stability to the canopy. I never did add the fiberglass reinforcing that is called for and they have worked well for me since installing them 7 years ago. Jerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2000
From: Frank and Dorothy <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Re: tip up without gas shocks?
tom sargent wrote: > How hard is it to just manually push the canopy up without the assist from > the gas shocks? Can those of you with experience with tip-ups imagine using a > rod 2 or 3 feet long to just push straight up on the portion of the canopy > (suitably protected of course) above your head until the braces imagined above > would lock into place? Firstly, the gas shocks are included in the kit as standard now. I guess you could delete them, but the fact that Van includes them implies that they're the best solution. Secondly, your push-up rod would need to fold up somehow to fit inside the cockpit. And while it holds the canopy up, it needs to be out of the way of the people getting in and out. Frank. Building canopy, RV-6 tip-up Marton, NZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2000
From: Ted Gauthier <blunist(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Any Detroit area RV'ers out there?
Welcome to Michigan, There are at least a half dozen RV builders in Fowlerville, Mich. Several are flying.. I have a good friend who has a nice hanger with plenty of room for an RV located at the Ann Arbor airport. I will pass your e-mail address on to him if you wish. E-mail me direct if you would like more info. Ted Gauthier Pontiac, Mi. RV-6, Wings Blunist(at)flash.net russell parr wrote: > > I have just taken a job at Willow Run airport. I have an RV-4 and I'm > looking for a place to tie down/hangar it. I want to be able to get to > Willow Run within 20 minutes from where I keep my airplane because I'll be > on > call with this new job. If there are any Detroit area general aviation > types out there who might want a hangar partner or know where good deals are > to keep an airplane near Willow Run please let me know. Thanks, Russ Parr > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: tip up without gas shocks?
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Tom, There's an RV6a tip-up in Kansas that tackles this question at a new angle. It has no gas shocks, instead, there is a telescoping rod shaped like the letter "Y" that attaches to the rear of canopy and extends between the seats. The canopy handle is between the upper legs of the "Y". The lower vertical part of the "Y" has a smaller diameter tube that telescopes up in side it and attaches between the seats. There is a hole drilled in the inner tube and the outter tube so a pin can be inserted when the canopy is in the up position. To get in, just lift canopy up until holes align and slide the pin in. Get in and hold the upper part of "Y" and pull pin and ease it down. Just reverse process to get out. It's a very sturdy setup. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6 fuse ----- Original Message ----- From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)azstarnet.com> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 11:36 PM Subject: RV-List: tip up without gas shocks? > > I ask this question from ignorance - I haven't opened an RV tip-up canopy and I > haven't gotten to building mine yet - but after listening to all this > discussion I have to ask if there isn't a practical alternative to the gas > shocks. The hood on my Toyota has no springs on it. I just lift it up and > swing a steel rod into place to keep it up. (Granted, I'm standing infront ot > the hood when I do that, not sitting underneath the center of it.) But would > it be possible to replace the tip-up's gas struts with straight rods that just > latch into place when the canopy is lifted up by some other means? I'm > thinking real low tech here ,trying to imagine a system that exerts no force > when the canopy is closed. > > How hard is it to just manually push the canopy up without the assist from > the gas shocks? Can those of you with experience with tip-ups imagine using a > rod 2 or 3 feet long to just push straight up on the portion of the canopy > (suitably protected of course) above your head until the braces imagined above > would lock into place? > > I considered replacing the gas strut with a hand-pumped hydraulic pistons, > but that would probably weigh 6 times as much and be a lot more complicated > than the gas struts. Maybe a pulley system with steel cable? Well, you get > the idea. > > So, (Reaching for my asbestos overcoat) how crazy is this line of reasoning? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Coolers
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Hi Chuck: Charlie Kuss has volunteered to E-mail my pics to anyone interested on receipt of my photos, as I don't have this capability yet. I will be mailing him photos this coming week. Regards Eustace Bowhay -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Weyant <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com> Date: Thursday, July 27, 2000 11:02 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Coolers > >Eustace Bowhay wrote: > >> Would be happy to help off the list to anyone interested, I also have >> pictures of the installation. >> > >Eustace, > >I'm building an RV9A and would be interested in some pics of the oil cooler >installation if it wouldn't be too much trouble. >-- >Regards, > >Chuck Weyant >EMail Me: chuck(at)chuckdirect.com >WebSite: http://www.chuckdirect.com >Santa Maria, CA >805 347-8882 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "EWSpears" <ewspears(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Oil Cooling - RV8 - 200HP - Hot Climate
Date: Jul 29, 2000
I'm trying to plan and purchase my firewall forward on my 8AQB. Since I already have an IO360 200HP and I'm at Leeward Air Ranch Ocala, Fl. (HOT), I've been paying particular attention to the latest thread on coolers, cooler mtg location, and cowl exit area. Up to now I've gotten the following information (misinformation?). 1. In equivalent sizes S&W cools better than Positech. 2. Direct cooler mounts either under or at rear of baffle cool better than firewall, especially if scat hose is less than 5" Dia. 3. At some time Vans made a change to the RV8 /IO360 cowl to increase the exhaust area. I talked to Don Christenson in Tx. He was very helpful and basically solved his RV8/IO360/Hot Climate oil cooling problem by increasing the cowl exit area via louvers. I talked to Ken Scott at Vans and he acknowledged there was a change in exit area to the cowl but couldn't tell me WHEN or what the DIMENSIONS were. He did acknowledge I might have cooling problems with the Positech #4215 in my application. The drop down cooling air exit on my lower cowl from my kit #80922 measures 2" deep by 12" wide on the inside. Does anyone out there have an 8 cowl with a different dim.???????? Also I'm thinking that since the Vans Induction system uses air out of the left cheek cowl; I better plan on using the right side for oil cooler air. Any new info or corrections on above info would be appreciated. Also a good source for 9 row S&W or Niagra would be great to find. Esten Spears, 8AQ, 80922, Fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: F-802 riveting questions
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Ken, It's not clear to me what stage of completion your fuse is, but riveting both of the upper gear tower braces early on is not a problem if you want to. I did mine a bit later and don't remember having any problem with them long after the side skins were on. Also, they are fairly easy to work around. You are clearly in the throes of typical RV builder frustration... believe me I feel your pain and know exactly what you are going through. Allow me to suggest a resource you are not using... simply pick up the phone and call me or my friend Randy Griffin. We are both building RV-8s... I'm way ahead of you and Randy is just barely ahead of you -- he just finished his cockpit floors and his turtledeck skin is still not installed. Neither one of us would mind phone calls asking questions, in fact we'd both enjoy it. This list works ok, but is not nearly as effective as a one-on-one conversation with someone who has just been through the same phase. Randy G. and I are constantly comparing notes and helping each other think things through. In fact before he gets ready to complete any section he calls me over just to add any tips I can from already having gone through it. Usually this has proven worthwhile, I've been able to make several useful suggestions and observations. Not that I'm especially smart or skilled, just "been there and done that". Feel free to call me any time as follows... 800-886-6659 x14 office 360-901-2150 cell (on 24 hrs, national digital coverage) 360-817-9091 home Randy Griffin: 360-212-2959 office 360-944-7400 home Don't worry about bothering me, if I don't want to talk on the phone I just don't answer it. Oh, and don't think this is a one way street, we might task you with figuring out something for us as well. Best regards, Randy Lervold www.rv-8.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 12:25 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: F-802 riveting questions > > No harm, per se, but it's a lot easier to get the rivet gun on the rivets with the > side skins off. Once the side skins are in place, it'll be difficult to get a good > shot at the rivets even with an offset rivet set in the gun. I've certainly left my > share of clecos in while awaiting enlightenment, but had hoped to avoid that here > for this reason. I called Van's, but was told that no technical assistance will be > > Ken > > pcondon(at)csc.com wrote: > > > > > I know this is a half-assed answer but is there any harm leaving a clecko or two > > there in lieu of a rivet now ?. Every question I ever had regarding plans was > > eventaully made clear-------- sometime later. I allways made a note of my > > apparent confusion on the plans with a date......sometime later, often on > > another related part, the light finally goes on. Other times I look at my note > > and can't figure what the problem is......it all makes sence now......go figure. > > Actually, the clecko in place untill otherwise figured out-- is the lazy mans > > way out. It is actually more time consuming to rebuild/undrill or otherwise > > repair a part I was to eager with in the firstplace....... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: F-802 riveting questions
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Aaack! I committed the worst sin... private mail to the list! My apologies, Randy Lervold > > > > > No harm, per se, but it's a lot easier to get the rivet gun on the rivets > with the > > side skins off. Once the side skins are in place, it'll be difficult to > get a good > > shot at the rivets even with an offset rivet set in the gun. I've > certainly left my > > share of clecos in while awaiting enlightenment, but had hoped to avoid > that here > > for this reason. I called Van's, but was told that no technical > assistance will be > > > > Ken > > > > pcondon(at)csc.com wrote: > > > > > > > > I know this is a half-assed answer but is there any harm leaving a > clecko or two > > > there in lieu of a rivet now ?. Every question I ever had regarding > plans was > > > eventaully made clear-------- sometime later. I allways made a note of > my > > > apparent confusion on the plans with a date......sometime later, often > on > > > another related part, the light finally goes on. Other times I look at > my note > > > and can't figure what the problem is......it all makes sence now......go > figure. > > > Actually, the clecko in place untill otherwise figured out-- is the lazy > mans > > > way out. It is actually more time consuming to rebuild/undrill or > otherwise > > > repair a part I was to eager with in the firstplace....... > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Oil cooler hose hookup
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Howdy folks, In my latest search to find a way to solve my rather toasty oil temp problem, I'm wondering if I even have the cooler hooked up correctly in the first place. My O-360A4M engine has two ports both right next to each other and above the left magneto. This is obviously where the hoses were connected in the Beech Sundowner the engine came out of. I connected the cooler hoses here. Now I read in the archives that there is more than one way to connect the cooler to the engine. There is a port that lies somewhere in the middle of the accessory section, between and below the mags that is the "better" choice for the hose carrying the oil TO the cooler. The return is one of those ports on the upper left. Is this middle port the one most of you are using? I believe this port is closer to the oil pump and results in greater flow through the cooler. I'm thinking it might also be a direct bypass around the vernatherm, thus negating the purpose of having one in the first place. Geeze, the oil system in the Lycosaur is bizarre! Brian Denk RV8 N94BD down for paint and pondering a better cooler installation. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Wire Ties
>I think you're on to something. Some of the white ty-wraps I've used in the >past have lasted, and others not. And what is the difference between the >white and black ones, other than color. Are they made of different stuff? >Anybody? The white guys are subject to ultra-violet degredation . . . they also don't take kindly to hyro-carbon and ozone exposure both of which are found in fair quantity under the cowl. Ty-wraps treated for better resistance to environmental stresses are always colored . . . most of the ones I've seen are either dark green or black. However, it's possible to make a ty-wrap from funky plastic of ANY color. When you buy them new in original manufacturer's packaging, it will state on the lable whether or not the critter is resistant to UV and/or chemical attack. My personal preference under the cowl is MS21919DGxx clamps and/or Dacron flat-lace (string) . . . I've seen both of these products work well for decades under the cowl. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) ( and still understand nothing. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2000
From: Frank and Dorothy <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Re: tip up without gas shocks?
tom sargent wrote: > How hard is it to just manually push the canopy up without the assist from > the gas shocks? Can those of you with experience with tip-ups imagine using a > rod 2 or 3 feet long to just push straight up on the portion of the canopy > (suitably protected of course) above your head until the braces imagined above > would lock into place? Firstly, the gas shocks are included in the kit as standard now. I guess you could delete them, but the fact that Van includes them implies that they're the best solution. Secondly, your push-up rod would need to fold up somehow to fit inside the cockpit. And while it holds the canopy up, it needs to be out of the way of the people getting in and out. Frank. Building canopy, RV-6 tip-up Marton, NZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2000
From: Ted Gauthier <blunist(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Any Detroit area RV'ers out there?
Welcome to Michigan, There are at least a half dozen RV builders in Fowlerville, Mich. Several are flying.. I have a good friend who has a nice hanger with plenty of room for an RV located at the Ann Arbor airport. I will pass your e-mail address on to him if you wish. E-mail me direct if you would like more info. Ted Gauthier Pontiac, Mi. RV-6, Wings Blunist(at)flash.net russell parr wrote: > > I have just taken a job at Willow Run airport. I have an RV-4 and I'm > looking for a place to tie down/hangar it. I want to be able to get to > Willow Run within 20 minutes from where I keep my airplane because I'll be > on > call with this new job. If there are any Detroit area general aviation > types out there who might want a hangar partner or know where good deals are > to keep an airplane near Willow Run please let me know. Thanks, Russ Parr > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: tip up without gas shocks?
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Tom, There's an RV6a tip-up in Kansas that tackles this question at a new angle. It has no gas shocks, instead, there is a telescoping rod shaped like the letter "Y" that attaches to the rear of canopy and extends between the seats. The canopy handle is between the upper legs of the "Y". The lower vertical part of the "Y" has a smaller diameter tube that telescopes up in side it and attaches between the seats. There is a hole drilled in the inner tube and the outter tube so a pin can be inserted when the canopy is in the up position. To get in, just lift canopy up until holes align and slide the pin in. Get in and hold the upper part of "Y" and pull pin and ease it down. Just reverse process to get out. It's a very sturdy setup. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6 fuse ----- Original Message ----- From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)azstarnet.com> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 11:36 PM Subject: RV-List: tip up without gas shocks? > > I ask this question from ignorance - I haven't opened an RV tip-up canopy and I > haven't gotten to building mine yet - but after listening to all this > discussion I have to ask if there isn't a practical alternative to the gas > shocks. The hood on my Toyota has no springs on it. I just lift it up and > swing a steel rod into place to keep it up. (Granted, I'm standing infront ot > the hood when I do that, not sitting underneath the center of it.) But would > it be possible to replace the tip-up's gas struts with straight rods that just > latch into place when the canopy is lifted up by some other means? I'm > thinking real low tech here ,trying to imagine a system that exerts no force > when the canopy is closed. > > How hard is it to just manually push the canopy up without the assist from > the gas shocks? Can those of you with experience with tip-ups imagine using a > rod 2 or 3 feet long to just push straight up on the portion of the canopy > (suitably protected of course) above your head until the braces imagined above > would lock into place? > > I considered replacing the gas strut with a hand-pumped hydraulic pistons, > but that would probably weigh 6 times as much and be a lot more complicated > than the gas struts. Maybe a pulley system with steel cable? Well, you get > the idea. > > So, (Reaching for my asbestos overcoat) how crazy is this line of reasoning? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Coolers
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Hi Chuck: Charlie Kuss has volunteered to E-mail my pics to anyone interested on receipt of my photos, as I don't have this capability yet. I will be mailing him photos this coming week. Regards Eustace Bowhay -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Weyant <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com> Date: Thursday, July 27, 2000 11:02 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Coolers > >Eustace Bowhay wrote: > >> Would be happy to help off the list to anyone interested, I also have >> pictures of the installation. >> > >Eustace, > >I'm building an RV9A and would be interested in some pics of the oil cooler >installation if it wouldn't be too much trouble. >-- >Regards, > >Chuck Weyant >EMail Me: chuck(at)chuckdirect.com >WebSite: http://www.chuckdirect.com >Santa Maria, CA >805 347-8882 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "EWSpears" <ewspears(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Oil Cooling - RV8 - 200HP - Hot Climate
Date: Jul 29, 2000
I'm trying to plan and purchase my firewall forward on my 8AQB. Since I already have an IO360 200HP and I'm at Leeward Air Ranch Ocala, Fl. (HOT), I've been paying particular attention to the latest thread on coolers, cooler mtg location, and cowl exit area. Up to now I've gotten the following information (misinformation?). 1. In equivalent sizes S&W cools better than Positech. 2. Direct cooler mounts either under or at rear of baffle cool better than firewall, especially if scat hose is less than 5" Dia. 3. At some time Vans made a change to the RV8 /IO360 cowl to increase the exhaust area. I talked to Don Christenson in Tx. He was very helpful and basically solved his RV8/IO360/Hot Climate oil cooling problem by increasing the cowl exit area via louvers. I talked to Ken Scott at Vans and he acknowledged there was a change in exit area to the cowl but couldn't tell me WHEN or what the DIMENSIONS were. He did acknowledge I might have cooling problems with the Positech #4215 in my application. The drop down cooling air exit on my lower cowl from my kit #80922 measures 2" deep by 12" wide on the inside. Does anyone out there have an 8 cowl with a different dim.???????? Also I'm thinking that since the Vans Induction system uses air out of the left cheek cowl; I better plan on using the right side for oil cooler air. Any new info or corrections on above info would be appreciated. Also a good source for 9 row S&W or Niagra would be great to find. Esten Spears, 8AQ, 80922, Fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: F-802 riveting questions
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Ken, It's not clear to me what stage of completion your fuse is, but riveting both of the upper gear tower braces early on is not a problem if you want to. I did mine a bit later and don't remember having any problem with them long after the side skins were on. Also, they are fairly easy to work around. You are clearly in the throes of typical RV builder frustration... believe me I feel your pain and know exactly what you are going through. Allow me to suggest a resource you are not using... simply pick up the phone and call me or my friend Randy Griffin. We are both building RV-8s... I'm way ahead of you and Randy is just barely ahead of you -- he just finished his cockpit floors and his turtledeck skin is still not installed. Neither one of us would mind phone calls asking questions, in fact we'd both enjoy it. This list works ok, but is not nearly as effective as a one-on-one conversation with someone who has just been through the same phase. Randy G. and I are constantly comparing notes and helping each other think things through. In fact before he gets ready to complete any section he calls me over just to add any tips I can from already having gone through it. Usually this has proven worthwhile, I've been able to make several useful suggestions and observations. Not that I'm especially smart or skilled, just "been there and done that". Feel free to call me any time as follows... 800-886-6659 x14 office 360-901-2150 cell (on 24 hrs, national digital coverage) 360-817-9091 home Randy Griffin: 360-212-2959 office 360-944-7400 home Don't worry about bothering me, if I don't want to talk on the phone I just don't answer it. Oh, and don't think this is a one way street, we might task you with figuring out something for us as well. Best regards, Randy Lervold www.rv-8.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 12:25 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: F-802 riveting questions > > No harm, per se, but it's a lot easier to get the rivet gun on the rivets with the > side skins off. Once the side skins are in place, it'll be difficult to get a good > shot at the rivets even with an offset rivet set in the gun. I've certainly left my > share of clecos in while awaiting enlightenment, but had hoped to avoid that here > for this reason. I called Van's, but was told that no technical assistance will be > > Ken > > pcondon(at)csc.com wrote: > > > > > I know this is a half-assed answer but is there any harm leaving a clecko or two > > there in lieu of a rivet now ?. Every question I ever had regarding plans was > > eventaully made clear-------- sometime later. I allways made a note of my > > apparent confusion on the plans with a date......sometime later, often on > > another related part, the light finally goes on. Other times I look at my note > > and can't figure what the problem is......it all makes sence now......go figure. > > Actually, the clecko in place untill otherwise figured out-- is the lazy mans > > way out. It is actually more time consuming to rebuild/undrill or otherwise > > repair a part I was to eager with in the firstplace....... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: F-802 riveting questions
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Aaack! I committed the worst sin... private mail to the list! My apologies, Randy Lervold > > > > > No harm, per se, but it's a lot easier to get the rivet gun on the rivets > with the > > side skins off. Once the side skins are in place, it'll be difficult to > get a good > > shot at the rivets even with an offset rivet set in the gun. I've > certainly left my > > share of clecos in while awaiting enlightenment, but had hoped to avoid > that here > > for this reason. I called Van's, but was told that no technical > assistance will be > > > > Ken > > > > pcondon(at)csc.com wrote: > > > > > > > > I know this is a half-assed answer but is there any harm leaving a > clecko or two > > > there in lieu of a rivet now ?. Every question I ever had regarding > plans was > > > eventaully made clear-------- sometime later. I allways made a note of > my > > > apparent confusion on the plans with a date......sometime later, often > on > > > another related part, the light finally goes on. Other times I look at > my note > > > and can't figure what the problem is......it all makes sence now......go > figure. > > > Actually, the clecko in place untill otherwise figured out-- is the lazy > mans > > > way out. It is actually more time consuming to rebuild/undrill or > otherwise > > > repair a part I was to eager with in the firstplace....... > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Oil cooler hose hookup
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Howdy folks, In my latest search to find a way to solve my rather toasty oil temp problem, I'm wondering if I even have the cooler hooked up correctly in the first place. My O-360A4M engine has two ports both right next to each other and above the left magneto. This is obviously where the hoses were connected in the Beech Sundowner the engine came out of. I connected the cooler hoses here. Now I read in the archives that there is more than one way to connect the cooler to the engine. There is a port that lies somewhere in the middle of the accessory section, between and below the mags that is the "better" choice for the hose carrying the oil TO the cooler. The return is one of those ports on the upper left. Is this middle port the one most of you are using? I believe this port is closer to the oil pump and results in greater flow through the cooler. I'm thinking it might also be a direct bypass around the vernatherm, thus negating the purpose of having one in the first place. Geeze, the oil system in the Lycosaur is bizarre! Brian Denk RV8 N94BD down for paint and pondering a better cooler installation. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)home.com>
Subject: RV8A First Flight
Date: Jul 29, 2000
All: My 8A broke the ground for the first time this morning. 2 flights today - 1.5 hours. Facts about the flights & conditions. 200HP IO-360 A1A Hartzell CS Main Wheel Pants on, nose off, no fairings OAT 85 Degrees flown at an altitude of 3500 ft over the airport CHT 305 Oil Temp 185 - 190 Oil Pressure in the Green Flies hands off, no trim rigging or squeezing required Stalls as advertised Very happy I don't have CHT & Oil Temp issues so far. Hope to report on speeds etc. soon. Mark Steffensen 8A flying Dallas, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV8A First Flight
Date: Jul 29, 2000
> >All: > >My 8A broke the ground for the first time this morning. > >2 flights today - 1.5 hours. > >Facts about the flights & conditions. >200HP IO-360 A1A >Hartzell CS >Main Wheel Pants on, nose off, no fairings >OAT 85 Degrees >flown at an altitude of 3500 ft over the airport >CHT 305 >Oil Temp 185 - 190 >Oil Pressure in the Green >Flies hands off, no trim rigging or squeezing required >Stalls as advertised > >Very happy I don't have CHT & Oil Temp issues so far. > >Hope to report on speeds etc. soon. > >Mark Steffensen >8A flying Dallas, TX Congratulations, Mark!! Still grinnin'? That's OK, you'll get used to it. Oil temp OK? At full throttle? What's the cooler setup? Inquiring and overheated minds want to know. Welcome to the elite fraternity of homebuilders with FLYING airplanes. It's a great club, but we seldom have meetings because we're out flying all the time. *grin* Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: RV8A First Flight
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Brian, I have a S/W 8432 9 row cooler behind the left CYL mounted on the baffle. The hoses are plumbed as in your note to the Acc Case by left mag. I used the same set-up as the 8A Prototype. It gets much hotter here in North Texas, I will advise with an update.....Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 4:37 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8A First Flight > Congratulations, Mark!! Still grinnin'? That's OK, you'll get used to it. > Oil temp OK? At full throttle? What's the cooler setup? Inquiring and > overheated minds want to know. > > Welcome to the elite fraternity of homebuilders with FLYING airplanes. It's > a great club, but we seldom have meetings because we're out flying all the > time. *grin* > > Brian Denk > RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2000
From: "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: tip up without gas shocks?
Perhaps I missed something at the beginning of this conversation but I can't imagine why someone would not want to use the gas struts. They are cheap. (The first set is free.) They are light weight. They are easy to install or uninstall if you need to. They are out of the way when getting in or out. They are the simplest to operate as they operate themselves, and they do a good job in stabilizing the canopy from twisting. While it is true that they are not strong enough to hold the canopy fully open under full power, I doubt I'd want to subject it to such abuse anyway. Andy Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com eCharts http://www.eCharts.cc ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2000
From: Andy <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Drooping left wing tip
With everything else lined up (both flaps, both ailerons and the right wing tip) the trailing edge of my left tip droops about 1/4". As a consequence I always have to fly with a bit of left up aileron. Trim wise, this is compensated for by Van's aileron trim in the full left position and the airplane will maintain itself hands off, however it has always been an annoying feature of my 6A and I would also suspect it is costing me at least a couple of knots. I suppose my first question, before I tear my wing apart and attempt to rebuild the tip is whether of not this is a common problem. Does anybody else have a tip that misaligns with the other, or with the rest of the trailing edge? If so, have you done anything to correct it? Did you notice a speed increase when you did? As far as fixing it, I'm wondering if I can "bend" it up a bit by building a corrective jig and heating it with a heat gun, or if it will need to be cut up and reglassed. Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6captain(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Subject: N-Number (Phone # for FAA?)
Can someone give me the phone # for the FAA so I can check on N-numbers? I saw it up here before but I lost it. Also where do I get the paperwork for getting my registration? Thanks, Eli Lewis Venice, FL RV-6 (Final Paint and assembly) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2000
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Tank Attatch Strip
Listers, When drilling the W423 tank attatch strip, I left the 1/2 inch shown on the plans for the nutplates, now it looks like that isn't enough. I've never been able to find a reference to minimum edge distance for bolts or screws. Does anyone know what the minimum edge distance is for AN509-8 screws with a nutplate? I recall reading somewhere that all you need is for the head of the bolt (or screw) and the nut to be fully in contact with the surface of the material (not hanging over the edge) Does this sound right? Jeff Point -6 wings Milwaukee, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Re: Oil cooler hose hookup
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Hi Brian: The recommended cooler hook -up for your engine is, "oil from the cooler" viewing from the back of the engine is the port just above the upper attachment bolt of the left mag. "Oil to the cooler" is the port to the left of the right mag. There are optional hook-up's but none really apply to our RV installations. All of this information is in the Lycoming Operator's Manual for the 0-360 model and 0-320 model engines. For the 0-360 A series it is Section 7-8, figure 7-4. If you can give me a fax number I will be happy to fax it to you. Eustace -----Original Message----- From: Brian Denk <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> Date: Saturday, July 29, 2000 12:34 PM Subject: RV-List: Oil cooler hose hookup > > >Howdy folks, > >In my latest search to find a way to solve my rather toasty oil temp >problem, I'm wondering if I even have the cooler hooked up correctly in the >first place. My O-360A4M engine has two ports both right next to each other >and above the left magneto. This is obviously where the hoses were >connected in the Beech Sundowner the engine came out of. I connected the >cooler hoses here. Now I read in the archives that there is more than one >way to connect the cooler to the engine. There is a port that lies >somewhere in the middle of the accessory section, between and below the mags >that is the "better" choice for the hose carrying the oil TO the cooler. The >return is one of those ports on the upper left. Is this middle port the one >most of you are using? I believe this port is closer to the oil pump and >results in greater flow through the cooler. I'm thinking it might also be a >direct bypass around the vernatherm, thus negating the purpose of having one >in the first place. Geeze, the oil system in the Lycosaur is bizarre! > >Brian Denk >RV8 N94BD >down for paint and pondering a better cooler installation. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Troy Whistman <TroyW(at)digitalmd.com>
Subject: Oil cooler hose hookup
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Where can I order a copy of the [I]0-360 manuals everyone refers to? Troy Whistman -----Original Message----- All of this information is in the Lycoming Operator's Manual for the 0-360 model and 0-320 model engines. For the 0-360 A series it is Section 7-8, figure 7-4. If you can give me a fax number I will be happy to fax it to you. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Drooping left wing tip
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Hi Andy, I had the same problem with the right rear of the tip dipping about 1/4" below the aileron line. I took a dremel tool with a small metal (diamond coated) circular blade and slit the end of the fiberglass tip across its width. With the end separated into a top and bottom half (you may need to slit it up the side a small distance) I could then force both halves upward so that the top and bottom aligned with the aileron. I clamped it in that position and drilled some holes (throught top and bottom near the very end) for clecos to hold the two halves in the desired position. I then mixed some Polyester expoxy and took the clecos out (temporarly) and apply the expoxy to both halves where they were slit. I then pushed them back into the desire alignment and stuck the cleco back in to hold it until the expoxy was almost harden. I took the clecos out at that point. This worked fine for me, took little time and looks lots better. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2000
From: "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: I0-360 Manual
Troy Whistman wrote: > Where can I order a copy of the [I]0-360 manuals everyone refers to? > > Troy Whistman In stock at Builder's Bookstore. Look in the Engine Maintenance section. Andy Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com 970 887-2207 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Subject: enlarged rivet hole???
i have 1/8 hole to large and went up to 5/32. i screwed it up and now it to big. this is on a rib flange i am attaching to elevator spar. i did put an extra 1/8 in the middle of the two originals. question, being i have 2 1/8 set fine, one on end and one in middle what is you guys opinion in going with either a sheet metal screw, if so tell me type, dumb a... here, or a big pop rivet. the hole is too big now for a 5/32. if a pop is suggested would it have to be aircraft quality or something i could find at home depot? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: Oil cooler hose hookup
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Builder's Bookstore, www.buildersbooks.com > Where can I order a copy of the [I]0-360 manuals everyone refers to? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVHI(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Subject: Re: enlarged rivet hole???
Just clean it up & call it a lightning hole. Since it's not on the exterior skin, you don't even have to worry about the looks of this minor goof! Thru the course of this project, you'll even end up cutting off flanges to extend or shorten ribs. Just add the extra rivet with edge & distance between rivets & it will be okay. Larry Adamson RV6A-- finish ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "J. Farrar" <jfarrar1(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Oil cooler hose hookup
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Brian, The start up info from Aerosport includes a labeled diagram of the rear of an O-360. The supply to the oil cooler from the engine is just right of center of the engine and just below a centerline drawn horizontal thru the mags. The return from the cooler to the engine is just above and slightly right of the left mag top bolt. If you want a scanned copy of the drawing, contact me off list. Jeff Farrar, RV8A N4ZJ reserved, Chandler, AZ jfarrar1(at)home.com On the gear, fuselage interior and wiring, engine arrived, avionics on the way. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 11:17 AM Subject: RV-List: Oil cooler hose hookup > > Howdy folks, > > In my latest search to find a way to solve my rather toasty oil temp > problem, I'm wondering if I even have the cooler hooked up correctly in the > first place. My O-360A4M engine has two ports both right next to each other > and above the left magneto. This is obviously where the hoses were > connected in the Beech Sundowner the engine came out of. I connected the > cooler hoses here. Now I read in the archives that there is more than one > way to connect the cooler to the engine. There is a port that lies > somewhere in the middle of the accessory section, between and below the mags > that is the "better" choice for the hose carrying the oil TO the cooler. The > return is one of those ports on the upper left. Is this middle port the one > most of you are using? I believe this port is closer to the oil pump and > results in greater flow through the cooler. I'm thinking it might also be a > direct bypass around the vernatherm, thus negating the purpose of having one > in the first place. Geeze, the oil system in the Lycosaur is bizarre! > > Brian Denk > RV8 N94BD > down for paint and pondering a better cooler installation. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV8DRIVER(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Subject: Re: Drooping left wing tip
Andy, I saw an RV at Osh in '99 with the same problem and another next to it that was straight. I think it was a -6 or a -4, but the bottom line is, the owner of the straight a/c ws there and said he had to slit the trailing edge of the drooped tip to pull it into alignment. You might have to continue the slit around the tip toward the front to get everything straight. Obviously the rib would have to be removed also. This guy corrected the problem during construction. Good luck. Andy Johnson. With everything else lined up (both flaps, both ailerons and the right wing tip) the trailing edge of my left tip droops about 1/4". As a consequence I always have to fly with a bit of left up aileron. Trim wise, this is compensated for by Van's aileron trim in the full left position and the airplane will maintain itself hands off, however it has always been an annoying feature of my 6A and I would also suspect it is costing me at least a couple of knots. I suppose my first question, before I tear my wing apart and attempt to rebuild the tip is whether of not this is a common problem. Does anybody else have a tip that misaligns with the other, or with the rest of the trailing edge? If so, have you done anything to correct it? Did you notice a speed increase when you did? As far as fixing it, I'm wondering if I can "bend" it up a bit by building a corrective jig and heating it with a heat gun, or if it will need to be cut up and reglassed. Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bdubsrv6a(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 29, 2000
Subject: Re: RTV sealer
Hey listers, With reference to the RTV colors, red black, etc, how about the "clear RTV silicone" by Permatex? Is that OK or is it a mistake to use that? Bud West Wings at the ready The Quail Works ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2000
From: Denis Walsh <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Tank Attatch Strip
Jeff Point wrote: > > Listers, > > When drilling the W423 tank attatch strip, I left the 1/2 inch shown on > the plans for the nutplates, now it looks like that isn't enough. I've > never been able to find a reference to minimum edge distance for bolts > or screws. Does anyone know what the minimum edge distance is for > AN509-8 screws with a nutplate? I recall reading somewhere that all you > need is for the head of the bolt (or screw) and the nut to be fully in > contact with the surface of the material (not hanging over the edge) > Does this sound right? > > Jeff Point > -6 wings > Milwaukee, WI > Worked for me. I too don't know of a spec for bolt or screw, but do know the oft quoted edge clearance spec is for rivets in aluminum sheets. D Walsh name="deniswalsh.vcf" filename="deniswalsh.vcf" begin:vcard n:Walsh;Denis adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net fn:Denis Walsh end:vcard ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vince Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
Subject: Oil Coolers
Date: Jul 30, 2000
Count me in if it's not too much trouble. I'd love to see them. Vince Welch RV-8A -----Original Message----- From: Eustace Bowhay [SMTP:ebowhay(at)jetstream.net] Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 11:51 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Coolers Hi Chuck: Charlie Kuss has volunteered to E-mail my pics to anyone interested on receipt of my photos, as I don't have this capability yet. I will be mailing him photos this coming week. Regards Eustace Bowhay -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Weyant <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com> Date: Thursday, July 27, 2000 11:02 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Coolers > >Eustace Bowhay wrote: > >> Would be happy to help off the list to anyone interested, I also have >> pictures of the installation. >> > >Eustace, > >I'm building an RV9A and would be interested in some pics of the oil cooler >installation if it wouldn't be too much trouble. >-- >Regards, > >Chuck Weyant >EMail Me: chuck(at)chuckdirect.com >WebSite: http://www.chuckdirect.com >Santa Maria, CA >805 347-8882 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Elrod3794(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 30, 2000
Subject: Re: RV8a kit for sale
I have an RV8A quickbuild kit for sale Fuselage is about 90% complete Wings 95% complete Empennage is complete and mounted to fuselage To many extras to list and all work is very high quality please contact me off list if interested 205 7444994 205 7449415 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sally and George" <aeronut58(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: enlarged rivet hole???
Date: Jul 30, 2000
Bob: It's a little hard to visualize which rib and which rivet location this is, but I would not use a pop rivet that is not aircraft quality in a structural application. Depending on the location, you may not need a third rivet in that rib. Talk to the folks at Van's. One possible option would be to cut off the existing rib flange and rivet another (made from the smae thickness and type of material) to the rib, on the other side of the rib. This will give you nice untouched location on the spar in which to drill new holes. If all else fails you can buy a new rib and even a new elevator spar relatively cheaply from Vans. Most of us have gone that route on some part or another in the course of building an airplane. George Kilishek N888GK (reserved) Finishing ----- Original Message ----- From: <Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 8:21 PM Subject: RV-List: enlarged rivet hole??? > > i have 1/8 hole to large and went up to 5/32. i screwed it up and now it to > big. this is on a rib flange i am attaching to elevator spar. i did put an > extra 1/8 in the middle of the two originals. question, being i have 2 1/8 > set fine, one on end and one in middle what is you guys opinion in going with > either a sheet metal screw, if so tell me type, dumb a... here, or a big pop > rivet. the hole is too big now for a 5/32. if a pop is suggested would it > have to be aircraft quality or something i could find at home depot? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sally and George" <aeronut58(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Tank Attatch Strip
Date: Jul 30, 2000
Jeff: That's right. Think about it...the load is carried by the screw and the nutplane to the rivets holding the nutplate to the attach strip. The hole in the attach strip for the screw doesn't enter into it, structurally. George Kilishek N888GK (reserved) Finishing ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)execpc.com> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 6:11 PM Subject: RV-List: Tank Attatch Strip > > Listers, > > When drilling the W423 tank attatch strip, I left the 1/2 inch shown on > the plans for the nutplates, now it looks like that isn't enough. I've > never been able to find a reference to minimum edge distance for bolts > or screws. Does anyone know what the minimum edge distance is for > AN509-8 screws with a nutplate? I recall reading somewhere that all you > need is for the head of the bolt (or screw) and the nut to be fully in > contact with the surface of the material (not hanging over the edge) > Does this sound right? > > Jeff Point > -6 wings > Milwaukee, WI > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2000
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net>
Subject: Re: enlarged rivet hole???
Bob CherryMax blind rivets (the proper name for what you refer to as "pop" rivets. Technically Pop is a brand name of blind rivet) are structural and could be used here. Look in Aircraft Spruce or Wicks catalog for these rivets. You should also be able to purchase them at a local aviation supply house. Home Depot rivets are not acceptable here. How loose is your 5/32" hole? I have often enlarged a hole while drilling out poorly set rivets. If the hole has not gotten really large, you can "swell" a rivet to make it fit properly in the enlarged hole. I do this as follows Select an AN470AD5 rivet 1/2 size longer than the rivet originally chosen. You may have to cut a rivet down for this. The extra .031" of length is needed as you will shorten the rivet to increase it's diameter as needed. Place this rivet in your hand squeezers and squeeze it slightly. Go slowly here. As you squeeze it, it's diameter will "swell". Squeeze it a little and try it's fit in the enlarged hole. Keep repeating this process till you have a rivet that fits the enlarged hole snugly. I have found that you must set the squeezer's ram so that you are doing the squeezing with the handles almost completely together. My personal experience is that if I try to swell a rivet with the handles more than "a little" apart, I'll bend that rivet. If after swelling the rivet a little, I need the diameter larger yet, I'll reset the ram height again and repeat the process. Once you have the rivet so that it fits snugly in the hole, re-shoot the rivet. Charlie Kuss > i have 1/8 hole to large and went up to 5/32. i screwed it up and now it to > big. this is on a rib flange i am attaching to elevator spar. i did put an > extra 1/8 in the middle of the two originals. question, being i have 2 1/8 > set fine, one on end and one in middle what is you guys opinion in going with > either a sheet metal screw, if so tell me type, dumb a... here, or a big pop > rivet. the hole is too big now for a 5/32. if a pop is suggested would it > have to be aircraft quality or something i could find at home depot? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ferdfly(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 30, 2000
Subject: Re: enlarged rivet hole???
In a message dated 7/29/00 6:23:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM writes: << i have 1/8 hole to large and went up to 5/32. i screwed it up and now it to big. this is on a rib flange i am attaching to elevator spar. i did put an extra 1/8 in the middle of the two originals. question, being i have 2 1/8 set fine, one on end and one in middle what is you guys opinion in going with either a sheet metal screw, if so tell me type, dumb a... here, or a big pop rivet. the hole is too big now for a 5/32. if a pop is suggested would it have to be aircraft quality or something i could find at home depot? >> Bob, may i suggest you put a second flange on that rib, facing the opposite direction, that outta hold it. Fred LaForge RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2000
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tank Attatch Strip
> > Listers, > > When drilling the W423 tank attatch strip, I left the 1/2 inch shown > on > the plans for the nutplates, now it looks like that isn't enough. I offer the following from Frank Van der Hulst's web page: http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rvlinks.html "When riveting the LE skin to the W-623 flange strip, ensure that you leave plenty of W-623 sticking out for the tank to screw onto. Check the distance from the edge of the tank skin to the screw holes along the outboard edge. This edge will butt against the LE skin, and there should be enough W-623 sticking out for the screws and rivets to go into it without violating edge distance requirements. I think that the W-623 is ONLY JUST wide enough -- if you have any protruding outboard from the edge of the rib 8A flange, you won't have enough inboard. Even though the manual specifies the attach strip have 1/2 inch showing outside the leading edge skin to accommodate the fuel tank nutplates, note that in drawing 18a the distance between the edge of the tank skin and the pre-drilled holes is 3/8th of an inch. This obviously will not leave proper edge distance for the nutplates. Rivet the tank attach strip with 3/4 inch showing. After assembling the tank but before drilling the skins, trim the attach strip as needed based on the distance from the edge of your tank skin and your outboard tank rib. Trim the attach strip as necessary to allow the leading edge skins to meet." Coincidentally enough, I ran into the same problem on my -six and sent the above to Frank, who added the warning to his pages - in the wing skinning section. I fixed it by adding a 1-inch-wide strip to the back of the attach strip, allowing it to extend beyond the existing strip by another 1/4-inch. I dimpled holes in the existing attach strip to rivet it to the added piece (spaced between the holes I already drilled and found to have insufficient edge clearance) then flush riveted the add-on to the existing strip. Then back drilling through the existing strip I could rivet the nutplates and have plenty of edge clearance for the rivets and screw hole. My technical counselor approved before I closed the wings. Hope this helps. Mike Thompson Austin, TX N140RV (Reserved) Fuselage Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2000
From: old ogre <jollyd(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: enlarged rivet hole???
dumb question...why go to all that trouble, when you can get an "oversize" rivet allready made for that purpose...by sqeezing the longer rivet, you work harden it, thus making it less strong....if you havn't looked at AC 43-13, it should be informative....jolly in aurora, or. Charlie Kuss wrote: > > Bob > CherryMax blind rivets (the proper name for what you refer to as "pop" rivets. > Technically Pop is a brand name of blind rivet) are structural and could be used > here. Look in Aircraft Spruce or Wicks catalog for these rivets. You should also > be able to purchase them at a local aviation supply house. Home Depot rivets are > not acceptable here. > How loose is your 5/32" hole? I have often enlarged a hole while drilling out > poorly set rivets. If the hole has not gotten really large, you can "swell" a > rivet to make it fit properly in the enlarged hole. I do this as follows > Select an AN470AD5 rivet 1/2 size longer than the rivet originally chosen. You > may have to cut a rivet down for this. The extra .031" of length is needed as you > will shorten the rivet to increase it's diameter as needed. > Place this rivet in your hand squeezers and squeeze it slightly. Go slowly here. > As you squeeze it, it's diameter will "swell". Squeeze it a little and try it's > fit in the enlarged hole. Keep repeating this process till you have a rivet that > fits the enlarged hole snugly. I have found that you must set the squeezer's ram > so that you are doing the squeezing with the handles almost completely together. > My personal experience is that if I try to swell a rivet with the handles more > than "a little" apart, I'll bend that rivet. If after swelling the rivet a > little, I need the diameter larger yet, I'll reset the ram height again and > repeat the process. > Once you have the rivet so that it fits snugly in the hole, re-shoot the rivet. > Charlie Kuss > > > i have 1/8 hole to large and went up to 5/32. i screwed it up and now it to > > big. this is on a rib flange i am attaching to elevator spar. i did put an > > extra 1/8 in the middle of the two originals. question, being i have 2 1/8 > > set fine, one on end and one in middle what is you guys opinion in going with > > either a sheet metal screw, if so tell me type, dumb a... here, or a big pop > > rivet. the hole is too big now for a 5/32. if a pop is suggested would it > > have to be aircraft quality or something i could find at home depot? > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ENewton57(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 30, 2000
Subject: Re: enlarged rivet hole???
In a message dated 7/29/00 8:37:13 PM Central Daylight Time, Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM writes: << i did put an extra 1/8 in the middle of the two originals. >> I would just leave the hole empty and move on. Eric Newton - Long Beach, Mississippi RV-6A N57ME (Reserved) (fuel tanks) Eric's RV-6A Construction Page ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AAMRELECTR(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 30, 2000
Subject: AMR has been sold!
Hello listers AAMR has been sold and will reopen shortly as Terminal Town. The new URL will be
http://terminaltown.com If you care to be notified of opening please send your E mail address to terminaltown(at)aol.com Best regards. John Caldwell @ AAMR/Ai rCore ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AAMRELECTR(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 30, 2000
Subject: AMR has been sold!
Hello listers AAMR has been sold and will reopen shortly as Terminal Town. The new URL will be
http://terminaltown.com If you care to be notified of opening please send your E mail address to terminaltown(at)aol.com Best regards. John Caldwell @ AAMR/Ai rCore ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2000
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net>
Subject: Re: enlarged rivet hole???
Jolly, There are 2 reasons. In Bob's situation, he will not have edge distance for a 3/16" diameter rivet. He has already gone "oversize" and messed it up. Your rib flanges are only 5/8" wide. Assuming you drilled the rivet holes in the middle of the flange, you can only go up to 5/32" rivets & maintain the 2 D requirement. The second reason is that this gives you a way to attempt a repair BEFORE you have to resort to a cheater (NAS 1097) or standard oversize rivet. If you use my method and bungle it, you can still go the oversize route. In essence, it gives you 3 chances to save the hole. (#1 swell original 1/8" rivet, #2 drill out for 5/32" rivet, #3 swell 5/32" rivet) As for "making it less strong" the 5/32" rivet is gross overkill in this application. The slight reduction in strength won't matter. old ogre wrote: > > dumb question...why go to all that trouble, when you can get an "oversize" rivet > allready made for that purpose...by sqeezing the longer rivet, you work harden it, > thus making it less strong....if you havn't looked at AC 43-13, it should be > informative....jolly in aurora, or. > > Charlie Kuss wrote: > > > > > Bob > > CherryMax blind rivets (the proper name for what you refer to as "pop" rivets. > > Technically Pop is a brand name of blind rivet) are structural and could be used > > here. Look in Aircraft Spruce or Wicks catalog for these rivets. You should also > > be able to purchase them at a local aviation supply house. Home Depot rivets are > > not acceptable here. > > How loose is your 5/32" hole? I have often enlarged a hole while drilling out > > poorly set rivets. If the hole has not gotten really large, you can "swell" a > > rivet to make it fit properly in the enlarged hole. I do this as follows > > Select an AN470AD5 rivet 1/2 size longer than the rivet originally chosen. You > > may have to cut a rivet down for this. The extra .031" of length is needed as you > > will shorten the rivet to increase it's diameter as needed. > > Place this rivet in your hand squeezers and squeeze it slightly. Go slowly here. > > As you squeeze it, it's diameter will "swell". Squeeze it a little and try it's > > fit in the enlarged hole. Keep repeating this process till you have a rivet that > > fits the enlarged hole snugly. I have found that you must set the squeezer's ram > > so that you are doing the squeezing with the handles almost completely together. > > My personal experience is that if I try to swell a rivet with the handles more > > than "a little" apart, I'll bend that rivet. If after swelling the rivet a > > little, I need the diameter larger yet, I'll reset the ram height again and > > repeat the process. > > Once you have the rivet so that it fits snugly in the hole, re-shoot the rivet. > > Charlie Kuss > > > > > i have 1/8 hole to large and went up to 5/32. i screwed it up and now it to > > > big. snipped ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Monsterpin(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 30, 2000
Subject: RV-4 Pitot tube question
A couple quick questions on installing the pitot tube: 1) It appears that the pitot tube routes between the wing spar and the fuel tank on the inboard part of the wing before going through the nose ribs then back through the spar to the main wing ribs. What do you do to secure the line in the area between the tank and spar?? 2) How much excess tube to you leave on the wing root side?? I could not see on the plans anywhere how much to leave or how it finally hooks up in the instrument panel. Should I leave enough to make it to the IP, or just a few inches past the wing spar root to hook up to another fitting?? I also don't like how close the plans call for the pitot tube to the wing tie down....... Thanks for any help -Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2000
From: Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net>
Subject: Re: N-Number (Phone # for FAA?)
The Aircraft Registration Branch is (405)954-4206 > >Can someone give me the phone # for the FAA so I can check on N-numbers? I >saw it up here before but I lost it. Also where do I get the paperwork for >getting my registration? >Thanks, >Eli Lewis >Venice, FL >RV-6 (Final Paint and assembly) > > Jim Cimino RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL Reserved
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo (570)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Jul 30, 2000
"Kolb-List: Use of archive search" (Jul 30, 4:26am)
Subject: Re: Use of archive search (Clairfication)
>-------------- >--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Jung > >Group, > >It occurs to me that many on the list may not be aware how easy it is to >search the archives. > >Here is a short "how to": > >1) Click on the Search engine line a the bottom of each message. >= Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search > >2) Change the default "RV List" to "Kolb" > >3) Type in what you want to search on and click the "Begin Search" >button. > >4) A list of messages will appear. Each time you click on one, a new >window will open so that you can read it. Close the window to be able to >select the next message. > >That's all there is to it! > >John Jung >-------------- Actually, if you just resize and position the viewing window so that you can see both it and the window with the list of subjects, you don't have to close it. Each time you click on a subject line, it will bring up the message in that same viewing window. You can also click on the "Next" or "Previous" button from the viewing window to select the next or previous search match. Also note that you can use the logical AND and OR in your search by using the '&' and '|' symbols respectivly in your search string. Here are some examples: rotax engine & prop rotax engine | lycoming engine | auto conversion You can put as many AND or ORs in the search string as you like. For now, you can't mix AND and ORs in a search string, however. Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft Great minds discuss ideas, Average minds discuss events, Small minds discuss people... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2000
From: Sam Knight <knightair(at)lv.rmci.net>
Subject: Upholstery/Seats for RV Builders
RV Builders: I have moved to Las Vegas. Please note my new telephone number and e-mail address. I have been in the upholstery business for 28 years and have been making upholstery products for kitplanes for 16 years. I have interior kits available for RV-4, RV-6, RV-6A, and RV-8. I also have cabin covers and other items. I am the supplier of upholstery products for several kitplane manufacturers. A list of other kitplane interior products available upon request. For more information, call Knight Aircraft Interiors, Inc., at (702) 207-6681 or e-mail me at knightair(at)lv.rmci.net. If you e- mail for information, please mention either "Knight" or "Upholstery" in your reference line so I can give your request my immediate attention. Photos available upon request. Sincerely, KNIGHT AIRCRAFT INTERIORS, INC. "Fly by Knight" Upholstery Products Sam Knight ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Wire labels . . .
Hi Bob! May I ask you how you print your wire labels from the computer? What labels stuff do you print onto? Thanks . . . I print onto full sheets of Avery label material . . . 8.5 x 11" sheets in columns. Then stick the full sheet to one of those white plastic cutting boards. Use an x-acto knife to cut out individual labels to stick on wire and then cover with heat shrink. see: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/s817c.jpg Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) ( and still understand nothing. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net>
Subject: Re: RV-4 Pitot tube question
Date: Jul 30, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: <Monsterpin(at)AOL.COM> Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 11:07 AM Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Pitot tube question ~snip > 1) It appears that the pitot tube routes between the wing spar and the fuel > tank on the inboard part of the wing before going through the nose ribs then > back through the spar to the main wing ribs. What do you do to secure the > line in the area between the tank and spar?? ~snip Mike, I made hold down clamps out of scrap material (.040 will work). Make some 1/2 x 1 1/2 strips and form the hold down loop on one end by using a male and female die as follows: Male die - 1/4 drill rod or drill bit. This is the same size as the OD of the line you are about to secure. Female die - a piece of hardwood with a channel (dadoo). The depth is not real important except it can't be too shallow. 1/4" will work. The width should be 1/4" + 2x material thickness. In this case 2x material = .040 * 2 = .080 or approx 5/64. Practice: With the aid of a press, lay a strip on the female die covering the dadoo, and extending a little (3/8") past. Position the male die over the dadoo and press. The length of the overhang controls how much of a loop at the end. With a little practice, the pieces look very professional. I found that by leaving the protective covering on the stock helps. Good luck. Tom Barnes ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: JC Whitney Strip Lights
Date: Jul 30, 2000
Product Report, I bought three of the 24" strip lights from JC Whitney part number TC-24-W for a total of $13.47 USD. I chose the white ones. These are made in the USA by Vista Manufacturing. They call them Tac-Lite Strip Lighting. I had planned to put them along the edge of my glairsheild behind a yet to be determined edge material, probably stiffener angle material. I should mention that I'm planning to extend the glairsheild further back from the panel than Vans. I would like this to be the primary panel lighting with back up being two map lights on the tip up canopy frame. These strips have six small bulbs wired together and encased in a flexible plastic strip. The cross section of this strip is shaped in a "P" making for a nice flange to glue it on. I powered one of them up on the bench and darkened my shop. I was very disappointed. They don't even get close to making enough light. Just to experiment further, I broke out a soldering pencil and stripped the bulbs off all three of the strip lights. I twisted their wires together in pairs to make a long chain of 18 bulbs quite close together. I then got a couple of 18 gauge wires and began attaching each end of all the bulbs. I used a wire stripper to cut the insulation and then a knife to peel it away for about 1/4 of an inch for each pair of bulbs to get continuously soldered onto the feed wires. This way the bulbs only carry their own current. I stuffed the new string into the white plastic housing and fired it up. It works good but now it is only 22" long. I will order a whole bunch more and continue my strip. I have yet to measure it for current draw. I don't have to commit to this idea for quite some time. I can test further when the whole panel is together. I like the white plastic encasement strip. The light is soft yet bright enough once enough bulbs are soldered together. I am hoping for a very even airline look. I have several times already been discouraged by the large cost of high end alternatives. I am having fun making my own for low dough as I gear myself up to begin the Rocky Mountain Engine Monitor kit I have now got sitting on my bench. BTY, the current cost of this with all of the options to run it that RMI has for sale came to $1572 + $25 shipping USD or $2708.56 Canadian landed. Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)home.com>
Subject: 8A Flight Data
Date: Jul 30, 2000
Lister's Additional numbers from today's flights. OAT 90 degrees Oil cooler is mounted behind # 4 Cyl a S/W 8432 9 row. Oil Temp 185 -190 at altitude Oil Temp 200 - 210 on Climb out & during T & G's Indicated Air Speed 3000 ft 25 inch MP & 2500 RPM - 150 Kts No Nose Wheel Pant & No Fairings Take off's are Incredible Landings are very easy I flew a 6 for a few hours with a CFI. The 8A is much easier to handle on the ground & landings. I am having problems with ambient noise keying the intercom on the SL30 & am playing with the settings, but other than that all is going great. This is really a great aircraft. Keep building.....Mark Mark Steffensen 8A Dallas, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: 8A Flight Data
Date: Jul 30, 2000
I have heard from two sources now about problems with the SL series Apollo radio like this one. The 'built in intercom' is rumored to be a real pain, as well as the feature allowing you to monitor a second freq. Anyone else out there with similar experiences? I may have to rethink my radio choices....grrrrrr Bill > I am having problems with ambient noise keying the intercom on the SL30 & am > playing with the settings, but other than that all is going great. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Oil cooler hookup update
Date: Jul 30, 2000
OK folks, The concensus is that I have the "oil to cooler" hose in the wrong place on the back of my engine. It is not totally wrong, just not where the operator's manual says it should be. I just looked at Sam B's most cool webpage update on his engine overhaul and it is very clear where the supply hose to the cooler must go: on the port located between the mags right where the oil pump is pushing the goo out with great vigor. I have the supply hose hooked up on the port originally used in the Beechcraft the engine came from. It appears that this port *may* be downstream from the filter so it probably is not getting the same flow as the port down by the pump. The post from our departed friend Bill Benedict that I found in the archives indicates that by using the middle port one can expect a temperature drop improvement of 10 to 20 degrees. This is according to a Lycoming representative that visited Van's some time ago to inspect their stock of engines. My engine arrived with a plug in the middle port and appears to have never been used. Strange. What I SHOULD have also purchased with the engine was an operator's manual! I could not find this information in any of my various homebuilder books so I just went with what looked right. Those side by side ports with oily wads of paper towel stuffed in them sure looked like the right place to put the hoses! Only ONE truly is, so it would appear. If this holds true, then I'll stick with the Positech cooler on the firewall and be a happy RV8 camper. I won't know for another month since my plane is out of service for paint. Ten or twenty degees will get me into the 200-210 degree range which I will be quite content with on hot days. If it still won't behave, then out comes the Positech and a Niagara goes in it's place. Time will tell. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vince Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
Subject: Fuel Injection
Date: Jul 30, 2000
I was wondering what thoughts you guys might have on a carburated O360 compared to an O360 equiped with an aftermarket fuel injection like Airflow Performance. I don't plan to do negative G or inverted stuff. I do plan on a lot of cross country with the occasional roll or loop just for kicks. I understand that carbs are subject to carb icing and the small ports in the fuel injection can be a source of plugging but what are the other decision factors? Is there any reason to shell out the extra $2100 for the Airflow Performance? Vince Welch RV-8A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: Oil cooler hookup update
Date: Jul 30, 2000
> The concensus is that I have the "oil to cooler" hose in the wrong place on > the back of my engine. It is not totally wrong, just not where the > operator's manual says it should be. I just looked at Sam B's most cool > webpage update on his engine overhaul and it is very clear where the supply > hose to the cooler must go: on the port located between the mags right where > the oil pump is pushing the goo out with great vigor. > > I have the supply hose hooked up on the port originally used in the > Beechcraft the engine came from. It appears that this port *may* be > downstream from the filter so it probably is not getting the same flow as > the port down by the pump. The post from our departed friend Bill Benedict > that I found in the archives indicates that by using the middle port one can > expect a temperature drop improvement of 10 to 20 degrees. This is according > to a Lycoming representative that visited Van's some time ago to inspect > their stock of engines. My engine arrived with a plug in the middle port > and appears to have never been used. Strange. What I SHOULD have also > purchased with the engine was an operator's manual! I could not find this > information in any of my various homebuilder books so I just went with what > looked right. Those side by side ports with oily wads of paper towel > stuffed in them sure looked like the right place to put the hoses! Only ONE > truly is, so it would appear. > > If this holds true, then I'll stick with the Positech cooler on the firewall > and be a happy RV8 camper. I won't know for another month since my plane is > out of service for paint. Ten or twenty degees will get me into the 200-210 > degree range which I will be quite content with on hot days. If it still > won't behave, then out comes the Positech and a Niagara goes in it's place. > Time will tell. > > Brian Denk > RV8 N94BD Brian, Be sure and keep us all posted, this will be good info for the archives. Keep the oil cool, and cooler installations, are a hot topic so I'm sure everyone would be interested. Hope the paint looks good! Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500, cowling www.rv-8.com Home Wing VAF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ENewton57(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 30, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-4 Pitot tube question
In a message dated 7/30/00 11:26:42 AM Central Daylight Time, Monsterpin(at)AOL.COM writes: << 1) It appears that the pitot tube routes between the wing spar and the fuel tank on the inboard part of the wing before going through the nose ribs then back through the spar to the main wing ribs. What do you do to secure the line in the area between the tank and spar?? Use some scrap aluminum and make some straps. I made mine about 1/2" wide and 2" long and bent them around a 1/4" drill bit, then clamped it tight (around the bit) in a vise. Drill through and pop rivet them to the spar in two locations. Wrap some electricians tape around the tube where it will be clamped in the straps you made. See my web site under "tank construction" for pictures 2) How much excess tube to you leave on the wing root side?? I could not see on the plans anywhere how much to leave or how it finally hooks up in the instrument panel. Should I leave enough to make it to the IP, or just a few inches past the wing spar root to hook up to another fitting?? Just run it out to where its even with the root end of the spar. Put some tape over the end to keep out critters and such during the storage time. I also don't like how close the plans call for the pitot tube to the wing tie down....... >> Mine is 2 1/4" inboard of the wing tie down hole. Eric Newton - Long Beach, Mississippi RV-6A N57ME (Reserved) (fuel tanks) Eric's RV-6A Construction Page ________________________________________________________________________________
From: clayfly(at)libertybay.com.Sun,
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <
B0004588695@mail-2.lbay.net>; Sun, 30 Jul 2000 17:11:12.-0700(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-4 Pitot tube question
Date: Jul 30, 2000
Hi Mike, You asked: > 1) What do you do to secure the line in the area between the tank and spar?? As I recall, I used a couple of small strips of .025 aluminum, looped around the pitot tube with a blind rivet into the spar web. You could also use an Adel clamp or two. > > 2) How much excess tube to you leave on the wing root side?? Leave about 12 inches past the inboard rib --- that will be more than enough. You will eventually attach it to the fuselage with a fitting. Inside the fuselage you will run more tubing from the fitting to the Airspeed Indicator. > > I also don't like how close the plans call for the pitot tube to the wing tie > down....... I concur. As I recall I moved my pitot outboard maybe 6 inches to protect it from getting bent up when I tie down the wing. Send me an e-mailif you need me to clarify my comments above. Best of luck, Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X, engine testing, ready to do weight & balance ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV8A First Flight
Date: Jul 31, 2000
MARK, CONGRATULATION & WELL DONE !!!! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A (Finishing - I hope) Niantic, CT >From: "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)home.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: RV8A First Flight >Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 16:01:51 -0500 > > >All: > >My 8A broke the ground for the first time this morning. > >2 flights today - 1.5 hours. > >Facts about the flights & conditions. >200HP IO-360 A1A >Hartzell CS >Main Wheel Pants on, nose off, no fairings >OAT 85 Degrees >flown at an altitude of 3500 ft over the airport >CHT 305 >Oil Temp 185 - 190 >Oil Pressure in the Green >Flies hands off, no trim rigging or squeezing required >Stalls as advertised > >Very happy I don't have CHT & Oil Temp issues so far. > >Hope to report on speeds etc. soon. > >Mark Steffensen >8A flying Dallas, TX > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bob DiMeo - Oracle <dimeob(at)powertel.com.au>
Subject: Dupont ChromaBase
Date: Jul 31, 2000
I used Chroma One on my Comanche. It was painted in 1993 and I left it out in the sun for six years before bringing it into a hangar. I did get some slight chalking of the blue (Top cowl and sides) I used but it buffed out with a good wax job. It still looks as good today as the day I painted it. I found that it doesn't chip as easy as some Imron paint jobs I've seen. I selected it based on a discussion with my local auto paint supply shop. These guys really knew their paint and could have sold my anything I asked for. Once we discussed what I wanted to do and that I was doing it in my hangar and the equipment I was planning to use, they steered my to Chroma One. It's not a base coat/clear coat system. I've got no regrets. It was simple to use and sprayed on really well. I used an HVLP gun to apply. I even used it inside the cowl (bright white) with no problems. I used the whole Chroma one system. The primer is a chromate primer and the Chroma one is a catalyzed urethane paint. I cleaned and alodyned the whole plane before applying the primer. It was expensive then, I can imagine what it costs today. I bought three gallons. Two white and one blue. I still have one full gallon of white and can't bring it back so don't buy more than you really need. Regards, Bob RV8 #423 building on hold while in Australia > ---------- > From: Vanremog(at)AOL.COM > Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 01:50 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Dupont ChromaBase > > > In a message dated 7/27/00 7:20:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > tcervin(at)valkyrie.net writes: > > << I just tried some light gray Dupont ChromaBase Single Stage paint on > the interior of my RV6-A and it looks great!! > The paint dried to dust in 10-15 min. and has good shine requiring > NO > BUFFING. I have always used PPG Base Coat-Clear coat on my cars but this > went on so easy and has to be lighter that I am thinking of using it on > the > outside as well. > Have any of you builders used this product for the outside finish? > >> > > ChromaBase or Chroma One? My plane was painted by Randy Ford of T&P > Aerofinishers using scotchbrite burnish, alumiprep, alodine, Sterling > Epoxy > Primer and DuPont Chroma One. Trim colors are ChromaBase with Clearcoat. > It > was my understanding that ChromaBase alone is not a catalyzed finish (the > catalyst is in the Clearcoat) and may therefore remain solvent (fuel) > sensitive. > > -GV (RV-6A N1GV) > vanremog(at)aol.com > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2000
From: Wayne and Cindy <rwayne(at)gamewood.net>
Subject: FAA Database phone no.
Eli: The phone number is 405-954-3116. Very helpful and friendly, but often a busy signal. Good luck! Wayne Williams RV-8A QB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 30, 2000
Subject: Fiberglass Windshield Surround
Listers, A few observations after spending several days laying up and shaping the fiberglass fairing around the windshield of a slider RV-6. (And it still isn't quite done...) 1) The method Scott McDaniels posted a couple of years ago works well. Search the archives for McDaniels & fiberglass & windshield, and you'll come across it. 2) I added several layers of carbon fiber to my fairing across the rollbar. It adds strength, and I highly recommend it. What I don't recommend is making carbon fiber your first layer against the plexiglass. The fibers are so stiff, they just don't seem to wet out as well as conventional fiberglass cloth, so you just don't get as good of a bond to the plexiglass as you would with fiberglass. I'd recommend at least one layer of fiberglass, then the carbon fiber. 3) This operation takes a lot of material for an RV-6. Sure, I'm a bit liberal with resin, and I waste a bit too, but I'd say this layup took most of a quart kit of West System Epoxy. It takes a lot of little cloth strips too. (By the way, Wal-Mart carries the little Pizza cutter style cloth cutters you need to cut straight fiberglass strips. You can find them in the fabric section.) 4) I still have not figured out how to keep fiberglass cut on the bias from "necking down" when I make a layup. The stuff is like double knit.. It just stretches and stretches. The downside is that the pieces I cut 2" wide ended up as 1.25", etc.... Any solutions? Kyle Boatright RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sam Cherroff" <sam(at)videoassist.com>
Date: Jul 30, 2000
Subject: Cabin Noise
Mark Steffensen said: > > I am having problems with ambient noise keying the intercom on the SL30 & am > playing with the settings > > I'm about to dive into a 6A project, and was wondering what (if anything) the builders do to reduce cabin noise levels? Dynafocal e/m's and well fitted canopies are a start, but is anybody applying anti-resonance materials to the firewall or cabin interior surfaces? I've been doing some work quieting down equipment for use on sound stages and the difference these "mineral impregnated urethane" self sticking films make is dramatic. I suppose that treating enough of the sheet metal would probably weigh more than two pair of headphones, but still I'm curious... --Sam >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cinelogic, Co. (818)772-4777 fax 772-4733 sam(at)videoassist.com http://www.videoassist.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Jul 30, 2000
Subject: New Windows Utility For SkyMap II/IIIC...
Listers, For those of you that have had the pleasure of flying with one of the new Skyforce/King Skymap II or IIICs, I've been working on a Windows application that you might be interested in. Its call SkyComm and allows you to connect up your Windows 95/98/NT/2000 PC or laptop to the RS232 serial port on the Skymap and manage a number of its internal datasets. Some of SkyComm's features include Screen Shot Capture, Upload/Download of up to 4000 characters to the Skymap's internal Notepad for something like an online checklists etc., Upload/Download of Waypoint and Route data, and Download of the Skymap's Logger database. There's even a built in wiring diagram for the requisite RS232 cable! I have just finished Version 1.0 and am considering this Beta 1. I have setup a rather extensive web site for information on the application and for its download. If you have a SkyMap, you're going to want this program! Best of all, its FREE! Well, I do ask that those that like it make a voluntary List contribution... :-) The URL for the site is listed below and can also now be found off the main Matronics web site as well as the specific List web pages. Please download the program and let me know what you think! Comments should be directed to support(at)matronics.com SkyComm Web Site ---------------- http://www.matronics.com/skycomm/ Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft Great minds discuss ideas, Average minds discuss events, Small minds discuss people... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Trim tab/L elevator spar riveting
Date: Jul 31, 2000
I can't set the rivets on the outboard half of my trim tab spar (and the corresponding rear elevator spar). My 2-1/2" Avery yoke is too thick, and I can't figure out how to get a bucking bar with enough mass in there to use the gun. I'm a little leery of using the gun anyhow, because of the thin skin. I don't think a thin yoke would work, because it would have to reach over the piano hinge. I'm looking for ideas. Is there a pop rivet that will do the job? (The proper rivet is the AN 426 AD3-4.) Thanks in advance for your help. Jim Bower RV-6A (Emp) St. Louis, MO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Trim tab/L elevator spar riveting
Date: Jul 31, 2000
I did this not to long ago. I used the squeezer for most of it, and bucked the rest. They are -3 rivets so buck with relative ease. In the course of this project I've used all kinds of things as 'bucking bars'. In that space though I think I really did get a bucking bar from Avery in there.....turned on it's edge. If not, I've used the back riveting plate, a hammer face, a chisel...... :-) hehehe, like they taught me in boot camp......IMPROVISE AND OVERCOME. Semper Fi baby Bill -4 Feeling gung ho in Orlando. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 7:50 AM Subject: RV-List: Trim tab/L elevator spar riveting > > I can't set the rivets on the outboard half of my trim tab spar (and the > corresponding rear elevator spar). My 2-1/2" Avery yoke is too thick, and I > can't figure out how to get a bucking bar with enough mass in there to use > the gun. I'm a little leery of using the gun anyhow, because of the thin > skin. I don't think a thin yoke would work, because it would have to reach > over the piano hinge. > > I'm looking for ideas. Is there a pop rivet that will do the job? (The > proper rivet is the AN 426 AD3-4.) Thanks in advance for your help. > > Jim Bower > RV-6A (Emp) > St. Louis, MO > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2000
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cabin Noise
> I've been doing some work quieting down equipment for use on sound > stages > and the difference these "mineral impregnated urethane" self sticking > films > make is dramatic. I suppose that treating enough of the sheet metal > would > probably weigh more than two pair of headphones, but still I'm > curious... How about a source for this wonder material? MIU, shall we call it? :) and how flame resistant is it? Depending on its weight, your last observation is right on - insulate the firewall against engine heat, and maybe the cabin floor against exhaust heat, but trying to insulate the cabin against noise is going to cost a lot of weight. Better to go (IMHO) with ANR headsets. Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Fuselage Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2000
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Trim tab/L elevator spar riveting
> I can't set the rivets on the outboard half of my trim tab spar (and > the corresponding rear elevator spar). Welcome to the club! :) I've seen maybe two RV's that had solid rivets at that point - and both guys couldn't remember how they did it. Use the LPS-4 pop rivets that came in the kit. They're structural and will clean up fine at finish time. But if you _do_ figure out a good method, clue us in! Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Fuselage Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Fiberglass Windshield Surround
Date: Jul 31, 2000
-----Original Message----- From: KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM <KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM> Date: Sunday, July 30, 2000 10:53 PM Subject: RV-List: Fiberglass Windshield Surround > >4) I still have not figured out how to keep fiberglass cut on the bias from >"necking down" when I make a layup. The stuff is like double knit.. It just >stretches and stretches. The downside is that the pieces I cut 2" wide ended >up as 1.25", etc.... Any solutions? >Kyle Boatright >RV-6 1) Lay down Saran Wrap (or better, 2 to 8 mil plastic) on your cutting board (Formica, hardboard). 2) Cut the BID piece 3/4 inch oversize and lay it on the Saran Wrap. 3) Pour on a thin figure 8 line of epoxy and gently (w/o stretching) spread it out with a spreader 4) Lay a 2nd Saran Wrap piece over the first. 5) Draw the final outline on the 2nd piece using a juicy whiteboard marker 6) Cut to final size through the sandwich with a sharp pizza-type fiberglass cutter 7) Peel the 2nd Saran Wrap off 8) Carry the minimally-wetted BID piece by the Saran Wrap to the plane and apply it by handling the Saran Wrap 9) Handle only by Saran Wrap -- lay it on, adjust it, stipple it, swear at it -- do everything by manipulating the Saran Wrap. Your fingers never touchy epoxy. 10) Pull off the Saran Wrap. Note that you can (and should!) do as many as 8 layers at once with this technique to achieve maximal strength and minimal weight. This technique was taught to me by my local Lancair ES builder friend. At Sun&Fun 2000 the instructor taught us that one oz of epoxy should wet about one oz of cloth. Thus a quart of epoxy should wet out about 4 sq yards of 8-oz BID. Few RV builders (myself included) achieve this optimal degree of layup. Dennis Persyk RV6A N600DP getting close Hampshire, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Subject: Re: Fuel Injection
Vince, I have the A F P system and love it! Very quick acceleration very smooth running./ when ya lean it doesn't get rough but just quits when too lean. Better fuel atomization so better economy.. No carb heat muff or linkage... Is it worth it?? My opinion is YES. Stewart RV4 Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
Subject: List badges
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Listers, I just got back from OSH. I had my RV list badge on for the duration and made a dozen new friends thanks to the badge. Thanks Steve! Vince Frazier 3965 Caborn Road Mount Vernon, IN 47620 812-985-7309 home 812-464-1839 work Harmon Rocket II N314VF reserved http://www.usi.edu/CHEM/FACULTY/vfrazier/page1.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: N-Number (Phone # for FAA?)
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Eli, The phone number in Ok City fro records is (405) 954-3116. You get all the paperwork for registration and certification from your local FSDO. If you would like I will run a database scan for any 'N' numbers you are thinking about and let you know if they are available. Mike Robertson RV-8A Last minute nickel and dime stuff >From: RV6captain(at)AOL.COM >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: N-Number (Phone # for FAA?) >Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 19:08:44 EDT > > >Can someone give me the phone # for the FAA so I can check on N-numbers? I >saw it up here before but I lost it. Also where do I get the paperwork for >getting my registration? >Thanks, >Eli Lewis >Venice, FL >RV-6 (Final Paint and assembly) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fiberglass Windshield Surround
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Kyle, I have been helping a friend of mine build his Cozy4 and we continuously have had this problem. The one thing we did that seems to help is put a piece of tape across the ends of the strip. That way at least we know exactly what the width was when we started. That has helped us start out at the right width then it is just a matter of pulling the strip wider (to the right width?) as it is layed down on the wet resin. After that we just dig in with out fingers and re-arrange it to what we want. I used that same method for the dnaopy fairing on my -8A and it worked out well also. Hope this helps and isn't too confusing. Mike Robertson RV-8A going crazy with the last minute stuff >From: KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: RV-List(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Fiberglass Windshield Surround >Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 23:50:34 EDT > > >Listers, > >A few observations after spending several days laying up and shaping the >fiberglass fairing around the windshield of a slider RV-6. (And it still >isn't quite done...) > >1) The method Scott McDaniels posted a couple of years ago works well. >Search the archives for McDaniels & fiberglass & windshield, and you'll >come >across it. > >2) I added several layers of carbon fiber to my fairing across the >rollbar. >It adds strength, and I highly recommend it. What I don't recommend is >making carbon fiber your first layer against the plexiglass. The fibers >are >so stiff, they just don't seem to wet out as well as conventional >fiberglass >cloth, so you just don't get as good of a bond to the plexiglass as you >would >with fiberglass. I'd recommend at least one layer of fiberglass, then the >carbon fiber. > >3) This operation takes a lot of material for an RV-6. Sure, I'm a bit >liberal with resin, and I waste a bit too, but I'd say this layup took most >of a quart kit of West System Epoxy. It takes a lot of little cloth strips >too. (By the way, Wal-Mart carries the little Pizza cutter style cloth >cutters you need to cut straight fiberglass strips. You can find them in >the >fabric section.) > >4) I still have not figured out how to keep fiberglass cut on the bias >from >"necking down" when I make a layup. The stuff is like double knit.. It >just >stretches and stretches. The downside is that the pieces I cut 2" wide >ended >up as 1.25", etc.... Any solutions? > >Kyle Boatright >RV-6 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Seward747(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Subject: Re: Cabin Noise
In a message dated 7/31/00 7:01:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time, grobdriver(at)yahoo.com writes: << 've been doing some work quieting down equipment for use on sound > stages > and the difference these "mineral impregnated urethane" self sticking > films > make is dramatic. I suppose that treating enough of the sheet metal > would > probably weigh more than two pair of headphones, but still I'm > curious... How about a source for this wonder material? MIU, shall we call it? :) and how flame resistant is it? >> Just happen to have a flyer on this material sitting on my desk as I type this. Just back from Oshkosh, where I talked w/ a company called Skandia that markets this stuff. They had on display a stripped C-172 fuselage that had the various types of materials installed in different areas of the airframe; silver foil backed on the floorboards, a blue backed type on the sidewalls, etc. They claim to have done extensive research, using an acoustical engineer, to determine what works best where and offer soundproofing kits for generic two place aircraft (RVs) up to cabin class twins. The manufacturer is E-A-R, as in the "foamy" type earplugs, and claim compliance w/ FAR 25.853 (a) App. F Part I (a) (1) (ii) for flammability. Phone is 815/ 393-4600, FAX 815/393-3501 (no personal connection). Doug Seward Seattle area, -4, wings felt right at home, OSH wx was low grey overcast, occasional rain ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 07/30/00
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Regarding the following message. Don't forget that Vans sells "oops" rivets. These have a head size equivalent to the next smaller rivet. If you enlarge a hole, drill it out 1 size up and install an "oops" rivet that fits properly. Its head will be the same size as all the others, so the world won't know you made a mistake. ALSO: If any builders are in the area and would like a "motivational" ride let me know. These planes make going to work everyday worth while. Don Mei Essex, CT N92CT RV-4 >i have 1/8 hole to large and went up to 5/32. i screwed it up and now it to >big. this is on a rib flange i am attaching to elevator spar. i did put an >extra 1/8 in the middle of the two originals. question, being i have 2 1/8 >set fine, one on end and one in middle what is you guys opinion in going >with either a sheet metal screw, if so tell me type, dumb a... here, or a >big pop rivet. the hole is too big now for a 5/32. if a pop is suggested >would it have to be aircraft quality or something i could find at home >depot? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Trim tab/L elevator spar riveting
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Jim, Pop rivets for that area will work out fine. If you have any concerns then get Cherry rivets to go there which are structural. Mike Robertson RV-8A >From: "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Trim tab/L elevator spar riveting >Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 11:50:23 GMT > > >I can't set the rivets on the outboard half of my trim tab spar (and the >corresponding rear elevator spar). My 2-1/2" Avery yoke is too thick, and >I >can't figure out how to get a bucking bar with enough mass in there to use >the gun. I'm a little leery of using the gun anyhow, because of the thin >skin. I don't think a thin yoke would work, because it would have to reach >over the piano hinge. > >I'm looking for ideas. Is there a pop rivet that will do the job? (The >proper rivet is the AN 426 AD3-4.) Thanks in advance for your help. > >Jim Bower >RV-6A (Emp) >St. Louis, MO > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: RV-4 top skin question
Date: Jul 31, 2000
I have finally drilled my top skin to the tops of the bulkheads on my -4. My question is about when it comes time to rivet that puppy on. The rear-most top bulkhead: how did you guys rivet that thing? Should I face the flange aft and squeeze the rivets on or should I leave the flange facing forward and use pop rivets. If pop rivets, what would be a good type to use? CS4-4? Cherry Max? -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE Network Administrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Cabin Noise
Date: Jul 31, 2000
How can I get in touch with this company? Steve Soule Huntington, VT permanently finishing cockpit and FWF items. -----Original Message----- Just happen to have a flyer on this material sitting on my desk as I type this. Just back from Oshkosh, where I talked w/ a company called Skandia that markets this stuff. They had on display a stripped C-172 fuselage that had the various types of materials installed in different areas of the airframe; silver foil backed on the floorboards, a blue backed type on the sidewalls, etc. They claim to have done extensive research, using an acoustical engineer, to determine what works best where and offer soundproofing kits for generic two place aircraft (RVs) up to cabin class twins. The manufacturer is E-A-R, as in the "foamy" type earplugs, and claim compliance w/ FAR 25.853 (a) App. F Part I (a) (1) (ii) for flammability. Phone is 815/ 393-4600, FAX 815/393-3501 (no personal connection). ________________________________________________________________________________ Thread-Topic: RV-List: RV-4 top skin question Thread-Index: Ab/7MVpvQ2b333lcRVydThc0r+h3ngAAXSaw
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
Subject: RV-4 top skin question
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Scott, A few years back I helped a friend rivet the turtle deck on an RV-4. You can use regular rivets in there...I bucked them while I was already inside the rear fuselage doing the rest of them. I also was 25 pounds lighter back then whiched helped me get down in there. Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ Inspection passed last Friday, first flight sometime this week when the weather is perfect -----Original Message----- From: Van Artsdalen, Scott [mailto:svanarts(at)unionsafe.com] Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 2:57 PM Subject: RV-List: RV-4 top skin question I have finally drilled my top skin to the tops of the bulkheads on my -4. My question is about when it comes time to rivet that puppy on. The rear-most top bulkhead: how did you guys rivet that thing? Should I face the flange aft and squeeze the rivets on or should I leave the flange facing forward and use pop rivets. If pop rivets, what would be a good type to use? CS4-4? Cherry Max? -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE Network Administrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 8A Flight Data
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Bill, I have this system, installed in the GX 65 but the same thing. I have no problems with the intercom nor the monitor function. But, I did have to send the unit back to UPS Aviation under warranty to get the intercom to work. Mailed out next day air Monday and got it back Thursday, along with software update and getting the stickiness out of the knobs. This was a minor hassle to take the RV down for four days but I finally got over it. I really like the Apollo GX 65. Rick Caldwell RV-6 116 hrs Melbourne, FL >From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: 8A Flight Data >Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 18:38:33 -0400 > > >I have heard from two sources now about problems with the SL series Apollo >radio like this one. The 'built in intercom' is rumored to be a real >pain, >as well as the feature allowing you to monitor a second freq. Anyone else >out there with similar experiences? I may have to rethink my radio >choices....grrrrrr > >Bill > > > > I am having problems with ambient noise keying the intercom on the SL30 >& >am > > playing with the settings, but other than that all is going great. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fiberglass Windshield Surround
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Kyle, I also did just as you said with good results. Thanks Scott McD. for that great post & to Matt D. for the archives! One way to prevent the bias cut neck down is to cut & layup on a piece of visqueen plastic. Flip the plastic over onto the area taking the layup & carefully peel the plastic away while stipling down the wetted out cloth. Also: Warning for a potential screw up down the road. Always check the outside latch handle is NOT pointed forward when the canopy is slid closed. That carbon dings easily when the pointed end hits it. A stop to prevent that much rotation in the handle would be the solution. Maybe on the next RV? Rick Caldwell RV-6 116 hrs Melbourne, FL >From: KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: RV-List(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Fiberglass Windshield Surround >Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 23:50:34 EDT > > >Listers, > >A few observations after spending several days laying up and shaping the >fiberglass fairing around the windshield of a slider RV-6. (And it still >isn't quite done...) > >1) The method Scott McDaniels posted a couple of years ago works well. >Search the archives for McDaniels & fiberglass & windshield, and you'll >come >across it. > >2) I added several layers of carbon fiber to my fairing across the >rollbar. >It adds strength, and I highly recommend it. What I don't recommend is >making carbon fiber your first layer against the plexiglass. The fibers >are >so stiff, they just don't seem to wet out as well as conventional >fiberglass >cloth, so you just don't get as good of a bond to the plexiglass as you >would >with fiberglass. I'd recommend at least one layer of fiberglass, then the >carbon fiber. > >3) This operation takes a lot of material for an RV-6. Sure, I'm a bit >liberal with resin, and I waste a bit too, but I'd say this layup took most >of a quart kit of West System Epoxy. It takes a lot of little cloth strips >too. (By the way, Wal-Mart carries the little Pizza cutter style cloth >cutters you need to cut straight fiberglass strips. You can find them in >the >fabric section.) > >4) I still have not figured out how to keep fiberglass cut on the bias >from >"necking down" when I make a layup. The stuff is like double knit.. It >just >stretches and stretches. The downside is that the pieces I cut 2" wide >ended >up as 1.25", etc.... Any solutions? > >Kyle Boatright >RV-6 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2000
From: Jim Streit <wooody98(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RV-9 Fuse kits available
Fellow listers Just got a letter from Vans stating that the fuselage kit is now available It can be ordered with the tip up of sliding canopy and the price is $4900 Jim Streit RV-9 emp. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Cabin Noise
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Here is the website for E-A-R http://www.EARSC.com/ Ross > > How can I get in touch with this company? > > Steve Soule ________________________________________________________________________________
From: clayfly(at)libertybay.com.Mon,
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0004612434@mail-2.lbay.net>; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:43:51.-0700(at)matronics.com
Subject: Engine Ground Testing: Redlining CHTs
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Hello Listers, I need you to help me troubleshoot a recent problem. I'm finally ground testing my engine. It's an 0360-A1A w/ 600 hours on it. It starts up quickly and runs smoothly. But within only 1 or 2 minutes the CHTs on cylinders 2, 3 & 4 reach red line (260c). Cylinder 1 indicates only 150c. Oil pressure is good at 63psi and oil temp is still cold at 30c. Following are the troubleshooting items I have tried or plan to try: 1. I looked over the mixture cable and realized I wasn't getting full rich mixture. I adjusted the cable. It had no affect on the CHTs. 2. I ran the engine with and without the cowling on --- into the wind. No joy. 3. I will swap the probes to cylinders 1 and 3 to see if it's just bad readings from the probes. (doubtful) 4. I will review the timing. Could it be that I didn't set the timing correctly? Maybe it's all wrong and I'm getting detonation and preignition. (hopeful) 5. I don't know the first thing about how the oil gets to each cylinder. Is it possible that cylinders 2, 3 & 4 are not getting oil? How do I check this? How do I fix it? 6. Well, I don't even like to think of it, but I suppose I could have 3 junk cylinders that are just scraping and chunking so badly against the cylinder walls that they're sending the temps soaring. We'll just ignore this potentiality until all other possibilities have been exhausted. 7. Find a mechanic. Actually, I have. Our local WWII vintage A&P told me I had too many darned CHT probes and gadgets. He said to just ignore them and watch your oil temp. Maybe I caught him on a bad day. So, what does the evidence indicate to you? What additional suggestions do you have? Thanks for your help! Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X, Trying to be patient as I work through endless stuff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: clayfly(at)libertybay.com.Mon,
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0004612436@mail-2.lbay.net>; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:43:56.-0700(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-4 top skin question
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Scott, I kept that last bulkhead facing the way the plans called for --- I'm reluctant to change anything called for in the plans. I sent my young son down the hole with a bucking bar and put in solid rivets. There were a couple of places that were impossible for us to get solid rivets into --- so I used a couple of CS4-4's in those locations. Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X > I have finally drilled my top skin to the tops of the bulkheads on my -4. > My question is about when it comes time to rivet that puppy on. The > rear-most top bulkhead: how did you guys rivet that thing? Should I face > the flange aft and squeeze the rivets on or should I leave the flange facing > forward and use pop rivets. If pop rivets, what would be a good type to > use? CS4-4? Cherry Max? > > -- > Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE > Network Administrator > Union Safe Deposit Bank > 209-946-5116 > > > _- =========================================================== > _- =========================================================== > _- =========================================================== > _- =========================================================== > > >** --------- End Original Message ----------- ** > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: 8A Flight Data
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Rick, If I begged, and pleaded and promised lunch, beer, gas...first born child. Think I could experience that GX-65 in person....with some background wind and prop noise? I would also really like to take a look at Bill's -4 again...I have some things I want to see how it was done...know what I mean? Bill Orlando -4 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 5:24 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: 8A Flight Data > > > Bill, > > I have this system, installed in the GX 65 but the same thing. I have no > problems with the intercom nor the monitor function. But, I did have to > send the unit back to UPS Aviation under warranty to get the intercom to > work. Mailed out next day air Monday and got it back Thursday, along with > software update and getting the stickiness out of the knobs. This was a > minor hassle to take the RV down for four days but I finally got over it. I > really like the Apollo GX 65. > > Rick Caldwell > RV-6 116 hrs Melbourne, FL > > >From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: RV-List: 8A Flight Data > >Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 18:38:33 -0400 > > > > > >I have heard from two sources now about problems with the SL series Apollo > >radio like this one. The 'built in intercom' is rumored to be a real > >pain, > >as well as the feature allowing you to monitor a second freq. Anyone else > >out there with similar experiences? I may have to rethink my radio > >choices....grrrrrr > > > >Bill > > > > > > > I am having problems with ambient noise keying the intercom on the SL30 > >& > >am > > > playing with the settings, but other than that all is going great. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Austin" <6430(at)axion.net>
Subject: ELTs
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Hi Listers, For those of you who have a slider canopy, what have you found to be a good location to mount the ELT and antenna ? The tip up offers a good spot behind the rollover, but a slider is always exposing this area.....where is a good "out of harm's way " to put the antenna ?? Thanks, Austin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: HVLP vs. Conventional Spray Guns
Date: Jul 31, 2000
While researching paints, I found this study that Dupont did on HVLP vs. conventional guns. http://partners.dupont.com/Finishes/webpub.nsf?OpenDatabase under "Equipment" and then "07/21/1999____HVLP Spray Gun Study" Very interesting read. The bottom line.....HVLP only increases transfer efficiency (a measurement of the amount of paint that is deposited on the desired surface, divided by the amount that was sprayed. The calculation is normally done on a paint solids basis) by 4% to 6%. Ross Mickey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Homemade Air Dryer
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Back in '96, Gary Zilik (you there Gary????) gave us a home brewed dryer for our air compressors. Here it is: "I used a 5 gallon bucket and a placed a coil of soft copper tube inside. The tube exits at the top and bottom through holes drilled into the bucket and sealed with RTV. The tube exiting the bottom of the bucket is fitted with a male disconnect ( the inlet) and the top tube has a gascolater type water separator followed by a female quick connect. Fill the bucket with water and ice and you have a very effective dryer as the water will condense in the tubes and be collected in the colater. I use frozen gallon milk jugs for ice and throw the jug in the bucket and when done painting put the jug back in the freezer. A desiccant filter is used at the gun for residual moisture protection." Later that same year Brian Yablon gave us his rendition of Gary's idea. Here it is: "At Home Depot, I bought 50' of 3/8" copper refrigeration tubing, along with a couple of 1/4" NPT-to-tubing compression fittings ($25). Using a paint can as a form, I made a tight coil of the tubing. I held the coil together by soldering some scrap 12-gauge copper wire to the coil at the 3, 6, 9 and 12 o'clock positions. Using the remaining wire ends, I hung the coil in the middle of a 5-gal drywall bucket. I drilled holes at the top and bottom of the bucket for the ends of the coil to exit, and sealed them with silicone caulk. A 3' length of air hose connects the top of the coil to my compressor. I transplanted the separator/filter and air chuck to the bottom of the coil. To operate, I fill the bucket with cold water, toss in a few of those reusable blue cooler ice packs, and away I go. Water condenses out of the air, flows downhill, and collects in the separator. My tools now run completely dry. The only caveat is I have to remember to drain the air filter OFTEN. This gizmo works so effectively that it can fill the bowl in the separator in no time." Now my question. In Gary's design, the air from the compressor enters the bottom of the bucket and exits the top. In Brian's design, this is reversed. I would tend to think Gary's is the way to go. Any comments? Also, Gary, what do you mean by a "gascolater type water separator?" Can you give me a part number or something? Is it from an automotive store or what? Thanks, Ross Mickey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Confor Foam
Date: Jul 31, 2000
I have been researching foam for seats. The only company that I have found to sell temperature sensitive foams (visco elastic memory foam) of different firmnesses is E-A-R brand Confor Foam. My local discount foam distributor sells it for $10 a board foot (1" x 12" X12") Does anyone have a cheaper source or recommendation of different brands? Here are some links http://www.seatfoam.com/ http://www.EARSC.com/materials/index.html Ross Mickey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick & Barbara Osgood" <randbosgood(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: RST intercom for sale
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Hello fellow listers... I am selling my rst 565 intercom kit. This kit is has been completed and calibrated. I bought the Microair radio and will not need this kit. The price for the 565 is $200.00 & shipping. Rst's web site now sells this kit for $242.00 & s/h. Rick & Barbara Osgood ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2000
From: Warren Gretz <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com>
list-aerobatic , list-aviation , list-avionics , list-beech , list-cessna , list-ez , list-glasair , list-lancair , list-rocket , list-tailwind , list-zenith
Subject: Gretz Aero products web site
Greetings Listers, I have a web site you may be interested in looking at. All of my products are listed there with photos and prices. The address is http://www.gretzaero.com I hope you like what I offer. Warren Gretz Gretz Aero ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Starn" <jhstarn(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-4 top skin question
Date: Jul 31, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: Van Artsdalen, Scott <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 12:57 PM Subject: RV-List: RV-4 top skin question > > Sorry I cant speak directly on a -4 but I was the "inside" man on Gummibears Rocket. At 6-0 240# the main thing I had going for me was long arms and was the smallest around of the three guys there. We used a piece of 1/4" plywood cut to match the bottom of the "boat". We cut out knotchs for the bulk heads so it looking like a surfboard with shark bits at each bulkhead. Turn it sideways and lay it down. Next remove keys, wallet, comb, change, belt buckle and anything else not required to buck. We also lifted the tail so the board was a slight uphill climb. Light (cool tube, is best) and a fan at the openning should get you started on the right track so you don't need to pick Pop rivets as the second best way. Glasses fog up but I need them only for distance vision. A light paint job on the top of the surfboard could save you many splinters, so you dont find for a few weeks when they get ready to leave, dont ask how I know this. Hope this helps, I can send you a photo if you contact either Gummibear or Kabong. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ferdfly(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Subject: Re: Trim tab/L elevator spar riveting
In a message dated 7/31/00 4:54:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com writes: << I can't set the rivets on the outboard half of my trim tab spar (and the corresponding rear elevator spar). My 2-1/2" Avery yoke is too thick, and I can't figure out how to get a bucking bar with enough mass in there to use the gun. I'm a little leery of using the gun anyhow, because of the thin skin. I don't think a thin yoke would work, because it would have to reach over the piano hinge. >> Did you remove the hinge pin? --------- Fred LaForge RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: ELTs
Date: Jul 31, 2000
I got a rubber coated ELT antenna and mounted it under the empenage cover in the horizontal position. Tests indicate that it works fine. But tests are all I plan on doing at this point. Mike Robertson RV-8A Batton down the hatches...Hurricane Daniel is on the way >From: "Austin" <6430(at)axion.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: "rv-list rv-list" >Subject: RV-List: ELTs >Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:58:21 -0700 > > >Hi Listers, > For those of you who have a slider canopy, what have >you >found to be a good location to mount the ELT and antenna ? > The tip up offers a good spot behind the rollover, but a slider is >always >exposing this area.....where is a good "out of harm's way " to put the >antenna ?? >Thanks, >Austin. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2000
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Ground Testing: Redlining CHTs
0.83) with SMTP id ; Mon", 31, Jul, 2000, 15:43:51.-0700(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > Hello Listers, > I need you to help me troubleshoot a recent problem. I'm finally ground testing my engine. > It's an 0360-A1A w/ 600 hours on it. It starts up quickly and runs smoothly. But within only > 1 or 2 minutes the CHTs on cylinders 2, 3 & 4 reach red line (260c). Cylinder 1 indicates > only 150c. Oil pressure is good at 63psi and oil temp is still cold at 30c. > > Following are the troubleshooting items I have tried or plan to try: > 1. I looked over the mixture cable and realized I wasn't getting full rich mixture. I adjusted > the cable. It had no affect on the CHTs. > > 2. I ran the engine with and without the cowling on --- into the wind. No joy. > > 3. I will swap the probes to cylinders 1 and 3 to see if it's just bad readings from the probes. > (doubtful) > > 4. I will review the timing. Could it be that I didn't set the timing correctly? Maybe it's all > wrong and I'm getting detonation and preignition. (hopeful) > > 5. I don't know the first thing about how the oil gets to each cylinder. Is it possible that > cylinders 2, 3 & 4 are not getting oil? How do I check this? How do I fix it? > > 6. Well, I don't even like to think of it, but I suppose I could have 3 junk cylinders that are > just scraping and chunking so badly against the cylinder walls that they're sending the temps > soaring. We'll just ignore this potentiality until all other possibilities have been exhausted. > > 7. Find a mechanic. Actually, I have. Our local WWII vintage A&P told me I had too many > darned CHT probes and gadgets. He said to just ignore them and watch your oil temp. > Maybe I caught him on a bad day. > > So, what does the evidence indicate to you? What additional suggestions do you have? > > Thanks for your help! > > Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X, Trying to be patient as I work through endless stuff > Your mechanic is probably the closest to being right. Ground testing for CHT temps is not a good idea. Any extended running on the ground without the cowling is even a worse idea. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)home.com>
Subject: Ambient Cockpit Noise
Date: Jul 31, 2000
I think I have solved the problem. I spoke both to UPS Aviation Technologies & Lightspeed. 1. I am going to adjust the Mic 1 & Mic 2 Squelch down in the comm options. I initially took it from 80 to 50, but was told to take it to 20 or less. This should help. 2. With the Lightspeed Mics the screw on the Mic must be facing the windscreen, if it is the other way around the mic is facing away from your mouth & picking up the ambient cockpit noise. Thanks for all the suggestions. I will investigate on tomorrows flight.....Mark Steffensen 8A Dallas 4 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2000
From: Mark Gilbert <mgilbert(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Iridite Mixing Ratio
I obtained some iridite powder but it did not come with mixing instructions from the supplier. Would someone please provide me with the ratio of iridite powder to water to make an alodine solution. Does anyone on the list know of a California supplier of iridite powder? I obtained my 8 oz. supply from a Canadian source and learned a lesson about not first asking about the shipping charges - $65 to ship $30 worth of powder - ouch. Mark Gilbert RV-6A Sacramento ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: ELTs
Date: Jul 31, 2000
I've seen them mounted inside under the sliding canopy - the fuselage part. There is a curved bow pointing aft that will serve nicely. I've got a picture - but no scanner. Details - zap me offline and I'll put something together for you with the part number of the aft pointing bow... Ralph Capen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-4 top skin question
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Scott, I was able to reach in through the hole in the bulkhead and buck all of the rivets. If your hand doesn't reach or won't fit maybe you could find someone with small hands to help. Keep in mind the rivets on that bulkhead are under the emp. fairing so if there is a little cosmetic imperfection from a riveting newbee it won't show on the finished product. Pat Perry Dallas, PA RV-4 N154PK wiring and pre paint finish work. >From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: "Rv-List (E-mail)" >Subject: RV-List: RV-4 top skin question >Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 12:57:18 -0700 > > > >I have finally drilled my top skin to the tops of the bulkheads on my -4. >My question is about when it comes time to rivet that puppy on. The >rear-most top bulkhead: how did you guys rivet that thing? Should I face >the flange aft and squeeze the rivets on or should I leave the flange >facing >forward and use pop rivets. If pop rivets, what would be a good type to >use? CS4-4? Cherry Max? > >-- >Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE >Network Administrator >Union Safe Deposit Bank >209-946-5116 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-9 Fuse kits available
Ordered mine already, didnt see an option for electric flaps, tho. Must be just an order it from the catalog option Kevin Shannon -9 wing control surfaces ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RST intercom for sale
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Rick, Keep in mind the microair is a pushbutton intercom not voice activated. I just went over the schematics for the microair and noticed this, I had been assuming it was a typical voice activated. I just might get a seperate intercom for mine to avoid the extra switch on the stick. Just thought I'd mention this because it caught me by suprise. Pat Perry Dallas, PA RV-4 N154PK wiring and pre paint finish work. >From: "Rick & Barbara Osgood" <randbosgood(at)peoplepc.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: "rv-list" >Subject: RV-List: RST intercom for sale >Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:08:36 -0700 > > > >Hello fellow listers... > >I am selling my rst 565 intercom kit. This kit is has been completed and >calibrated. I bought the Microair radio and will not need this kit. The >price for the 565 is $200.00 & shipping. Rst's web site now sells this kit >for $242.00 & s/h. > > >Rick & Barbara Osgood > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "J. Farrar" <jfarrar1(at)home.com>
Subject: Top skin and engine
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Listers, What are the opinions on riveting on the top skin before hanging the engine. The skin carries load in this design but is it necessary that it be complete? I have been of the opinion that it needed to be on but I've talked to others who hung the engine w/o the skin. Van's said that they put the engine on the -9A w/o the skin BUT they left the hoist attached to take some of the load. Perhaps I could crib underneath. I would really, really like to install the engine w/o the skin because of ease of access. What say you? Thanks, Jeff Farrar, RV8A N4ZJ reserved, Chandler, AZ jfarrar1(at)home.com On the gear, fuselage interior and wiring, engine arrived, avionics on the way. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2000
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: Homemade Air Dryer
Ross Mickey wrote: > > Back in '96, Gary Zilik (you there Gary????) gave us a home brewed dryer for > our air compressors. > > In Gary's design, the air from the compressor enters the bottom of the > bucket and exits the top. In Brian's design, this is reversed. I would > tend to think Gary's is the way to go. Any comments? Yes I am here. The reason I made the uphill system with the water trap at the top was that is was easy to make. As long as there is a sufficient lenght of tubing submerged in the cold water to condense the moisture in compressed air I don't think it would matter where the water trap was located. Some people have had good luck using a coil of air hose instead of the copper tubing but I favor the copper. Copper has much better heat transfer so a shorter coil can be used. When I switched to an HVLP spray gun I replace my 3/8" tube with 3/4" as I was getting to much pressure drop through the 3/8" tube. > > > Also, Gary, what do you mean by a "gascolater type water separator?" Can > you give me a part number or something? Is it from an automotive store or > what? Sears has them. They can be found anywhere compressors are sold. Sometimes the water trap is packaged with a drip oiler for your air tools. Throw the oiler away, they usually supply to much oil and rendure an air hose useless for delivering air for painting. Gary Zilik RV-6A N99PZ - Back from an incredible week in Oshkosh > > > Thanks, > > Ross Mickey > > _ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TCN44257(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 31, 2000
Subject: Re: Homemade Air Dryer
A very effective air dryer can be made from a 4" or 6" length of pipe rated for the pressure you are using. Close the end with caps threaded for 1/4" or 3/8" fittings. Pack the pipe with Kotex or similar female napkins. When they get moist simply remove the cap and refill with new product. Karl Rigdon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2000
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: Cabin Noise
Sam Cherroff wrote: > > > Mark Steffensen said: > > > > I am having problems with ambient noise keying the intercom on the SL30 & am > > playing with the settings > > > > > > I'm about to dive into a 6A project, and was wondering what (if anything) the > builders do to reduce cabin noise levels? Dynafocal e/m's and well fitted > canopies are a start, but is anybody applying anti-resonance materials to the snip > --Sam > In my -4, sealing the canopy to prevent wind noise made a dramatic difference. I didn't do any measurements, but it seemed to cut cabin noise in half. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Re: Vacuum system
Date: Jul 31, 2000
>Many of these > parts are very expensive, the fittings for the vacuum pump are worth > $100.00 alone I think the word should be "cost" rather than "worth". I made some out of copper for about $2, two or three elbows and a couple 3/8" NPT adapters. Fits the 5/8" ID tube to the regulator perfectly. Wide open ID, just like the $100 jobs. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Re: Trim tab/L elevator spar riveting
Date: Jul 31, 2000
> << I can't set the rivets on the outboard half of my trim tab spar (and the > corresponding rear elevator spar). My 2-1/2" Avery yoke is too thick, and I > can't figure out how to get a bucking bar with enough mass in there to use > the gun. I'm a little leery of using the gun anyhow, because of the thin > skin. I don't think a thin yoke would work, because it would have to reach > over the piano hinge. >> Find a small strip of aluminum or steel, about 1/4" by 1/8" by an inch or so long, and use it directly against the shop head of the rivet. This allows one to use the squeezer without mashing the hinge. This "shims" the squeezer die away from the hinges. I've used this several places in the project. Alex Peterson ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com>
Subject: RV-9 Fuse kits available
Date: Jul 31, 2000
According to the staff at Van's booth at Oshkosh, electric flaps are standard on the -9. I mailed my down payment last Wednesday. Chris Heitman Dousman WI RV-9A N94ME (reserved) Flaps http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html -----Original Message----- Ordered mine already, didnt see an option for electric flaps, tho. Must be just an order it from the catalog option Kevin Shannon -9 wing control surfaces ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2000
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net>
Subject: Re: Iridite Mixing Ratio
Mark I mix my Iridite 14-2 as follows 1 lb. of powder to 10 gallons of water. Works great. Also check for Alodine 1200S. That is Henkel Corp.'s powder equivilent. Charlie Kuss RV-8 wings Boca Raton, Fl. > > I obtained some iridite powder but it did not come with mixing > instructions from the supplier. Would someone please provide me with > the ratio of iridite powder to water to make an alodine solution. > > Does anyone on the list know of a California supplier of iridite powder? > I obtained my 8 oz. supply from a Canadian source and learned a lesson > about not first asking about the shipping charges - $65 to ship $30 > worth of powder - ouch. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: 6/6A -Tank/fuse distance
Date: Jul 31, 2000
I am installing my gasolator and facet pump outside between the tank and fuse. My wings are not on and I need to know the distance between them. I measure 3" right at the spar. It looks from the drawings that it is narrower at the top and gets larger as you move forward (for). I would like to know the distance at 4" and 10" in front of the spar and a conformation that it is 3" at the spar. Thanks, Ross Mickey ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2000
From: Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: My alodine has lost its mojo
I have several gallons of alodine that has lost its mojo. It still looks and smells hideous, and I haven't done tons of alodining with it - just the empennage and wings, but parts no longer emerge that lovely maple color I've come to love. I've heard rumours that it can be rejuvenated, and I was wondering if anyone out there knows how. Otherwise it's off to Household Toxics Day. Matthew 8A N48PP about to mix my first ProSeal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Subject: Re: ELTs
In a message dated 7/31/00 4:46:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 6430(at)axion.net writes: << For those of you who have a slider canopy, what have you found to be a good location to mount the ELT and antenna ? The tip up offers a good spot behind the rollover, but a slider is always exposing this area.....where is a good "out of harm's way " to put the antenna ?? >> I put it on the seatback crossbar to longeron gusset on the passenger side in the baggage area and use a heavy thread to pull the tip towards the turtledeck bulkhead. It drapes right along the canopy glass and never gets in the way. I have the Ack ELT mounted between the edge of the seat and the side wall to make it easy to get at. -GV (RV-6A N1GV) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Glover" <wirraway(at)bravo.net.au>
Subject: Re: RV8A First Flight
Date: Aug 01, 2000
<< > 2 flights today - 1.5 hours.>>> Congratulations Mark on a job well done. Can I make a booking for a ride at Christmas??? as I'll be visiting family in Fort Worth Cheers, Ken Glover Hunter Valley Australia ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Engine Ground Testing: Redlining CHTs
Hi Clay, I think you are prudent to investigate. I have found that problems never go away and don't get better. This doesn't sound like an engine problem. One or two minutes of run time especially at idle won't get your engine that hot. Your exhaust will rise fairly rapidly, but it takes longer for the cylinder heads to soak up the heat. If you are using conventional baffling, running for extended periods on the ground isn't too good. You don't indicate whose engine instrumentation you are using. Question 1 - Do your instruments indicate ambient at startup? With a cold engine, both the exhaust probes and the cylinder heads should indicate a temperature close to ambient. Mine are within 10 deg F. Some things I would check. Did you use the correct thermocouple wiring from the temperature probe back to the device? An easy test is to pull one or two of the probes, stick it in an ice bath followed by a cup of boiling water. If you don't see temps on the order of 32 and 212 F, something is awry. Have you mixed and matched equipment. I. e do you have type J Tc's connected to a K meter or vice versa? Have you used a grounded couple with a non grounded system. Cheers Tom Brown RV4 O-360 B1B Vm1000 for monitoring RV4Brown(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: RV8A First Flight
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Ken, Yes. Just let me know know when you are here. I am going to be visiting familiy in Chicago the week between xmas & Jan 1. So the week before or of xmas I will be around......Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Glover" <wirraway(at)bravo.net.au> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 3:57 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8A First Flight > > > << morning. > > > > 2 flights today - 1.5 hours.>>> > > Congratulations Mark on a job well done. Can I > make a booking for a ride at Christmas??? > as I'll be visiting family in Fort Worth > > Cheers, Ken Glover Hunter Valley Australia > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2000
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net>
Subject: Re: My Alodine has lost it's mojo
Matt One gallon of liquid Alodine (or Iridite) is good for 200 square feet of surface area. Consider how many square feet of sheet aluminium you've converted. Don't forget to double the figure as you are working on both side of the sheet. There is a good chance that you've simply "used it up". Another way people "destroy" Alodine is to set the dip tanks up outside in the sun. You can ruin several gallons of it very quickly this way. Don't ask me how I know! :-( I've saved the following regarding rejuevenating Alodine: "If you are going to use the solution over a long period of time, free oxygen will be depleted so you may need to add a fish aerating stone to the bottom of the tank and blow some air into it for best results. Further, warming the solution to 90 degrees F and agitation iproves the chemical film development vs time." Gary Van Remortal I've used this technique with some success on 2 year old Alodine. It worked but took much longer than normal to get good "color" on the parts. You will find lots of good posts in the archives on this subject. Charlie Kuss RV-8 wings Boca Raton, Fl. > I have several gallons of alodine that has lost its mojo. It still looks and smells hideous, and I haven't >done tons of alodining with it -just the empennage and wings, but parts no longer emerge that lovely >maple color I've come to love. I've heard rumours that it can be rejuvenated, and I was wondering if >anyone out there knows how. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Johnny Johnson" <Johnny(at)wiktel.com>
Subject: ELT Antenna location w/slider canopy
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Austin wrote: > For those of you who have a slider canopy, what have > you found to be a good location to mount the ELT and antenna ? On my -3, I mounted the ELT on the baggage compartment floor. The antenna is mounted on the fuselage just to the left of centerline a little ways aft of the seatback and bent about 1-1/4" above the fuselage so it points aft and parallels the canopy slide bar. The end of this particular antenna winds up near the rear support of the canopy slide bar. It's supported there with a lightweight bracket and a little piece of plastic tubing from the Ace store so it doesn't flop around. Tests indicate it works fine and it's always under the canopy whether open or closed. Keeping it out of the wind probably gains .0002156 mph... :=)) I can take a digital picture of it if anyone is interested... drop me a line. Johnny Johnson 49MM -3 flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net>
Subject: Re: Trim tab/L elevator spar riveting
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Easier still, use a couple of small washers under the die and that will give you enough clearance to get around hinge. Mike Nellis http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 11:21 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Trim tab/L elevator spar riveting > > > << I can't set the rivets on the outboard half of my trim tab spar (and > the > > corresponding rear elevator spar). My 2-1/2" Avery yoke is too thick, > and I > > can't figure out how to get a bucking bar with enough mass in there to > use > > the gun. I'm a little leery of using the gun anyhow, because of the thin > > skin. I don't think a thin yoke would work, because it would have to > reach > > over the piano hinge. >> > > Find a small strip of aluminum or steel, about 1/4" by 1/8" by an inch or so > long, and use it directly against the shop head of the rivet. This allows > one to use the squeezer without mashing the hinge. This "shims" the > squeezer die away from the hinges. I've used this several places in the > project. > > Alex Peterson > > > ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2000
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-4 top skin question
--- John Starn wrote: > A light paint job on the top of the surfboard could save you many > splinters, > so you dont find for a few weeks when they get ready to leave, dont > ask how I know this. A piece of laminate board would work well in this situation. 3/4 inch, plenty of support, has melamine bonded to the surface so it's nice and smooth, also slick so you can scoot around as needed. No splinters! Not there yet, but looking forward to it! Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Fuselage Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: clayfly(at)libertybay.com.Tue,
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0004628776@mail-2.lbay.net>; Tue, 01 Aug 2000 06:57:45.-0700(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Engine Ground Testing: Redlining CHTs
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Tom, Thanks for the response regarding my high CHTs. In answer to your questions, I'm using the Rocky Mountain Engine Monitor. I was careful to use the same type of metal connectors and lengths of wire for each probe and believe I followed the RMI instructions correctly. I do see the same ambient temperatures for CHTs & EGTs in all four cylinders when the engine is cold. You've raised some interesting ideas though. I will go back through my CHT wiring to double-check. I'll also check each cylinder with a hand-held thermometer (maybe an oven thermometer) after a one-minute ground run to verify if the gauges are accurate. Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X > > Hi Clay, > > I think you are prudent to investigate. I have found that problems never > go away and don't get better. This doesn't sound like an engine problem. > One or two minutes of run time especially at idle won't get your engine that > hot. Your exhaust will rise fairly rapidly, but it takes longer for the > cylinder heads to soak up the heat. If you are using conventional baffling, > running for extended periods on the ground isn't too good. > > You don't indicate whose engine instrumentation you are using. Question 1 > - Do your instruments indicate ambient at startup? With a cold engine, both > the exhaust probes and the cylinder heads should indicate a temperature close > to ambient. Mine are within 10 deg F. Some things I would check. Did you use > the correct thermocouple wiring from the temperature probe back to the > device? An easy test is to pull one or two of the probes, stick it in an ice > bath followed by a cup of boiling water. If you don't see temps on the order > of 32 and 212 F, something is awry. Have you mixed and matched equipment. I. > e do you have type J Tc's connected to a K meter or vice versa? Have you > used a grounded couple with a non grounded system. > > Cheers > > Tom Brown RV4 O-360 B1B Vm1000 for monitoring > RV4Brown(at)aol.com > > > _- =========================================================== > _- =========================================================== > _- =========================================================== > _- =========================================================== > > >** --------- End Original Message ----------- ** > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Cabin Noise
Date: Aug 01, 2000
-----Original Message----- From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> Date: Monday, July 31, 2000 9:56 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin Noise > >Sam Cherroff wrote: >> >> >> Mark Steffensen said: >> > >> > I am having problems with ambient noise keying the intercom on the SL30 & am >> > playing with the settings >> > >> > >> >> I'm about to dive into a 6A project, and was wondering what (if anything) the >> builders do to reduce cabin noise levels? Dynafocal e/m's and well fitted >> canopies are a start, but is anybody applying anti-resonance materials to the >snip >> --Sam >> >In my -4, sealing the canopy to prevent wind noise made a dramatic >difference. I didn't do any measurements, but it seemed to cut cabin >noise in half. > >Charlie > In the 4s and 6es I've ridden in (about 6 total), wind noise is louder than engine noise and skin flexure noise. I have about 8 dB better hearing sensitivity in the low, medium and high ranges than average for my age (59). For that reason I find good (NRR 24 dB or better) passive headsets more "quieting" than active headsets in RVs. Dennis Persyk N600DP Hampshire, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Medema, Douglas K." <DMedema@physio-control.com>
Subject: Fitting nose tire to wheel
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Last night, I mounted my nose tire to the nose wheel. After reading the archives and talking to some local RV builders, I tried the "squeeze the wheel together while pushing the tube back into the tire" method -- with bad results. After being very careful to push the tube back into the tire multiple times, I had the wheel halves together. I started to inflate the tire only to be able to hear air escaping back out of the tube. The leak was slow enough that I was able to fill the tube enough to push the tire all the way on the wheel. As soon as I let the air out, the tire pulled back off both halves of the wheel. When I pulled the wheel back off, I saw that I had managed to pinch about a 3/4" section of the tube which of course ruined the tube. I looked at it for awhile and decided there had to be a better way. The method I developed allowed me to easily mount the tire and have a very high confidence that I wouldn't pinch the tube. Here it is: (In the following, the upper wheel refers to the half with the valve stem and the lower wheel refers to the half without the valve stem.) 1) Align wheel halves and mark on lower half where valve stem goes. 2) Insert the inner tube into the tire and inflate/deflate several cycles to make sure the tube doesn't have any twists in it. 3) Place the tire w/ tube over the lower wheel aligning the valve stem with the mark made in step 1. 4) Use large Quik-Grip clamps at an angle such that they grab the lower wheel and pinch the tire on the top, but don't get in the way of where the upper wheel needs to go. 5) Gradually tighten Quik-Grip clamps while pushing the deflated tube into the tire. Tighten the clamps until the upper bead of the tire is below the top part of the lower wheel everywhere except right around the valve stem. The tube should be completely hidden inside the tire and the lower wheel should be just sticking up everywhere except where the valve stem is located. 6) Carefully place the upper wheel half in place with the valve stem exiting through the proper hole. 7) Install bolts and nuts. Remove clamps. Inflate tire. Hope this is helpful to somebody else. It seemed to be a lot easier to me. Took me more time to type this than to mount the tire. Doug Medema RV-6A #21140. Rebuilding my engine and mounting landing gear. (P.S. I don't subscribe to the list but check the archives. Email me directly if you have questions and want a quick response.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV8DRIVER(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Subject: RV-8 Langing Gear Structure, Fluting Locations
Listers, I have just begun work on the 802 landing gear parts and have run into a problem that I could use some help on. With the 820 side skin butted up to the edge of the 887 longeron as shown on the plans, Van's fluting locations conicide perfectly with the rivet locations on the 802B, and are very close on the 802A. Naturally I have already fluted the 802A, so it may be junk. Has anyone else run into this problem? I have a fairly recent fuselage kit, recieved in July. Thanks ahead of time, Andy Johnson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Homemade Air Dryer
Date: Aug 01, 2000
I assume this is plumbed inline in your hose. Ross > > A very effective air dryer can be made from a 4" or 6" length of pipe rated > for the pressure you are using. Close the end with caps threaded for 1/4" or > 3/8" fittings. Pack the pipe with Kotex or similar female napkins. When they > get moist simply remove the cap and refill with new product. > > Karl Rigdon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2000
From: "Charles E. Brame" <charleyb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Cabin Noise
If you heat poly urethane it emits cyanide gas. Deadly even in small amounts. Something I learned at a composite forum at Oshkosh. I wouldn't use it as insulation in a cockpit, much less on the firewall. Charlie 6AQB, On the gear -------------------------------- >From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin Noise > > > I've been doing some work quieting down equipment for use on sound stages > and the difference these "mineral impregnated urethane" self sticking films > make is dramatic. I suppose that treating enough of the sheet metal would > probably weigh more than two pair of headphones, but still I'm curious... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV8DRIVER(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Subject: RV-8 Landing Gear Structure, Part 2
Well, Duhhh. My apologies to anyone who wastes time trying to figure out the problem in my previous post on this subject. I was miss-reading the section detail and thinking that the 802D was the 820 skin. Must be my dislexia again. Andy Johnson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Top skin and engine
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Jeff, I hung the engine long before riveting the top skin. Otherwise putting all those wires and such would have almost been an impossible task. Most of the static load is taken up by the longerons anyway. Mike Robertson RV-8A couple more oil lines and its engine start time >From: "J. Farrar" <jfarrar1(at)home.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: , "RV List" >Subject: RV-List: Top skin and engine >Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:45:29 -0700 > > >Listers, What are the opinions on riveting on the top skin before hanging >the engine. The skin carries load in this design but is it necessary that >it be complete? I have been of the opinion that it needed to be on but >I've >talked to others who hung the engine w/o the skin. Van's said that they >put >the engine on the -9A w/o the skin BUT they left the hoist attached to take >some of the load. Perhaps I could crib underneath. I would really, really >like to install the engine w/o the skin because of ease of access. What >say >you? > >Thanks, Jeff Farrar, RV8A N4ZJ reserved, Chandler, AZ jfarrar1(at)home.com >On >the gear, fuselage interior and wiring, engine arrived, avionics on the >way. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ENewton57(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Pro-Seal...
In a message dated 8/1/00 10:14:39 AM Central Daylight Time, bvondane(at)atmel.com writes: << When should I take the masking tape off that I put over where the ribs go? I took it off right away while the proseal was still wet and did any clean up with lacquer thinner. How long do I have to wait before I can do more on the same tank? >> I waited 48 hours. Press finger on it firmly - shouldn't leave a finger print. Good luck with the next part. Its not so bad really, especially having a partner that likes mixing the stuff for you. Eric Newton Long Beach, MS RV-6A N57ME (reserved) (Wing skins) Eric's RV-6A Construction Page ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Homemade Air Dryer
Im thinking that a section of finned tubing used in hydronic heating applications would work well to quickly condense the water vapor, I'll give it a try and report later with the results. Your filter system sounds doable, but I swore I'd never buy tampons again after the divorce... Kevin Shannon -9 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: vent oil separator question
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Hi listers, I'm curious if anyone has experience with the oil separators sold in aircraft spuces's catalog. I purchased one for my RV-4 but after looking at it I'm not sure if its worth the trouble of finding space to mount it. Pat Perry Dallas, PA RV-4 N154PK wiring and pre paint finish work. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com>
Subject: Instrument Panel overhang
Date: Aug 01, 2000
For you tip up guy's... What is the depth of your glare shield overhang and how many have bent the fwd canopy skin vs. cut the skin? Ed Cole Maxim Integrated Products Bldg. 120 Ext. 6605 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2000
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pro-Seal...
> When should I take the masking tape off that I put over where the > ribs go? > > How long do I have to wait before I can do more on the same tank? Depending on how you mixed the Proseal, the mask should come off anywhere from 15 - 30 minutes - just after it starts to stiffen up. Longer and you'll leave tape behind or pull Proseal up. Some folks get after another stage of a tank in a couple of hours. I think consensus (including Van's, George O.) is to leave it alone for 24 hours to get a good set so that moving/flexing the tank won't pull a joint loose. Other factors affect - humidity, temperature. Just make sure you can't leave a finger print on the surface of the Proseal before you start another section. Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Fuselage Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Engine Ground Testing: Redlining CHTs
Hi Clay After I wrote this morning, I had another thought. Are you sure you are reading temperature in centigrade. The temps you lists would not be unusual if they were Fahrenheit. I get about 280F while taxiing out after 5 to 10 minutes. let me know what you find out! Tom ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Pro-Seal...
Hi Bill, If you used the masking tape for back riveting, get it off as soon as possible. If it was used to prevent proseal from contacting a future rivet line, I'd remove it as soon as you are done applying the first batch of proseal. You can remove the excess proseal with MEK. Wear the appropriate gloves. When to work on the tanks again is a matter of preference. I'd wait a day or two until the first batch of proseal sets up and isn't quite so sticky. It's a question of how gooey you like to get. Tom Brown ________________________________________________________________________________ Thread-Topic: RV-List: vent oil separator question Thread-Index: Ab/75XdwB0+0d8WdTE2lk9NRXtpg8gAACqwg
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
Subject: vent oil separator question
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Pat, I have one on my plane because I have a wet vacuum pump. Otherwise, it isn't necessary. In doing taxi testing I have noticed no oil coming out of the breather vent line. Bob Japundza RV-6 inspection signed off doing high speed taxi tests (and chasing small oil leaks) -----Original Message----- From: Pat Perry [mailto:pperryrv(at)hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 12:26 PM Subject: RV-List: vent oil separator question Hi listers, I'm curious if anyone has experience with the oil separators sold in aircraft spuces's catalog. I purchased one for my RV-4 but after looking at it I'm not sure if its worth the trouble of finding space to mount it. Pat Perry Dallas, PA RV-4 N154PK wiring and pre paint finish work. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel overhang
From: Don R Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
Ed: I ended up with about 1 1/2 inches overhang. Just keep cuttin till I liked it. I haven't bent my forward skin. Billy Willson has his curved (bent) nicely. Ever time I try & bend tin, I usually crease it. Hey, I will get Billy over. Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com ********************************************** writes: > > For you tip up guy's... > What is the depth of your glare shield overhang and how many have > bent the > fwd canopy skin > vs. cut the skin? > > Ed Cole > Maxim Integrated Products > Bldg. 120 Ext. 6605 > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel overhang
From: Don R Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
Ed: I ended up with about 1 1/2 inches overhang. Just keep cuttin till I liked it. I haven't bent my forward skin. Billy Willson has his curved (bent) nicely. Ever time I try & bend tin, I usually crease it. Hey, I will get Billy over. Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com ********************************************** writes: > > For you tip up guy's... > What is the depth of your glare shield overhang and how many have > bent the > fwd canopy skin > vs. cut the skin? > > Ed Cole > Maxim Integrated Products > Bldg. 120 Ext. 6605 > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Why run the fuel vents through the cockpit?
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Does anyone know why Van runs the fuel vent lines into the cockpit and down through the floor? I began to wonder bcz I am installing those lines in the cockpit right now and have no guidance at all from the plans about where to bring the lines through the side of the airplane. I get sick (sorta) every time I have to drill another hole through the side of the airplane. That all made me wonder why we put those vent lines in the cockpit to begin with. Steve Soule Huntington, VT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Subject: Re: vent oil separator question
> I'm curious if anyone has experience with the oil separators sold in > aircraft spuces's catalog. I purchased one for my RV-4 but after looking > at it I'm not sure if its worth the trouble of finding space to mount it. Mine has trapped several ounces that would otherwise have gone on the belly. Perhaps 2-4 oz per 50 hours. I wouldn't do it again, because some oil gets thru the seperator, so I have to wash the belly anyway. Tim ****** Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99 TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a ________________________________________________________________________________ Thread-Topic: RV-List: Why run the fuel vents through the cockpit? Thread-Index: Ab/7/afF3Er66tDISTasRFkN9NeGtgAAAoxw
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
Subject: Why run the fuel vents through the cockpit?
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Steve, I feel your pain, as I ran them just recently. I too spent hours figuring out where to drill the holes with the airport engineering crew. I ended up running the vent lines through the fuselage forward and around the tank attach brackets and up along the vertical rib in the fuse of my -6. If you need some pictures, I can email them to you. Running the vent lines is just one area of building these planes that you just have to get creative. Mine came out pretty clean looking. A friend of mine who helped me rivet just ordered his -9 tail at OSH...he told me that on the -9 fuse they are prepunching the fuel line penetration holes to standardize fuel systems. Good idea. I did wonder while I was doing the vent lines why they couldn't run to the wingtip as many certified airplanes have them... Thanks! Bob Japundza RealMed Corporation www.realmed.com -----Original Message----- From: Stephen J. Soule [mailto:SSoule(at)pfclaw.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 3:32 PM Subject: RV-List: Why run the fuel vents through the cockpit? Does anyone know why Van runs the fuel vent lines into the cockpit and down through the floor? I began to wonder bcz I am installing those lines in the cockpit right now and have no guidance at all from the plans about where to bring the lines through the side of the airplane. I get sick (sorta) every time I have to drill another hole through the side of the airplane. That all made me wonder why we put those vent lines in the cockpit to begin with. Steve Soule Huntington, VT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CPS7185(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Subject: Re:Inspection Report
Around the first of the year someone posted their inspection report they use. I remember how good I thought it was. Please Advise, Thanks reply to cps7185(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rv660wm(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Engine monitor
In a message dated 7/29/00 3:01:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bertrv6(at)yahoo.com writes: << I would like to hear your comments on the EIS monitor, or the Rocky Mount unit. Which is the best for the price.. >> I have been extremely happy with my EIS system in the 40 hours that I have flown so far. It is the most bang for the buck of any system that I looked at. Bernie Kerr, 6A, SE Fla ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Wire Splicing
Date: Aug 01, 2000
> >but what's the accepted way of getting 6-8 22ga wires connected at one > >dimmer or switch? IMHO, beauty is not the number one consideration. I wired panel lights by hopping from one to the next. That is, fuel ga at bottom up to oil T then up to oil P. At top of panel I gathered several lighting wires into one butt connector say 4 into one end and 3 into the other. Then, with the 3 I added a fourth that runs to the power (dimmer). If you want to put power, for example, to 5 wires put 3 in one end of butt connector and 2 in the other along with the power lead. The only reason I can think of for a terminal block would be if wires needed to be undone often - or to change center of gravity :-) Hal Kempthorne 2578 Elliot Court Santa Clara, CA 95051-1849 408.244.4984 CELL 408.230.0891 RV6a N7HK 99% 1965 Debonair for sale! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Why run the fuel vents through the cockpit?
In a message dated 8/1/00 4:54:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SSoule(at)pfclaw.com writes: << Does anyone know why Van runs the fuel vent lines into the cockpit and down through the floor? >> Just a guess here, but I suspect that the big up and over bend on the fuel vent line acts to minimize possible fuel loss during negative g maneuvers. I saw a guy doing barrel rolls one day in a Glasair and he vented fuel from the wingtips every time he went inverted. KB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Oil cooler hookup update
Date: Aug 01, 2000
What I don't understand in all this talk is which is the cooler input? Another builder told me how and says his always runs too cool even in hot (105+) wx seen often at SCK. I think I did mine from between mags port to bottom of vertically mounted (on back baffle) oil cooler. hal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rv660wm(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Why run the fuel vents through the cockpit?
In a message dated 8/1/00 5:06:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SSoule(at)pfclaw.com writes: << Does anyone know why Van runs the fuel vent lines into the cockpit and down through the floor? >> Steve, You have to have a very high spot in the vent line. The wing has so little dihedral that you can not vent them at the tip. There might be a way to run them up the firewall ( engineside), but you still have to get them from the tank to the front of the firewall. That leaves only two options that I can think of now. One is thru the cockpit and the other is outside the fuselage. Having the vent line in the cockpit compared to pressurise fuel lines downstream of the boost pump is of lot more concern IMHO. I would be very reluctant to change the fuel system in anyway without "knowing" that what I was doing is a proven concept!! Bernie Kerr, 6A 40 hours, SE Fla ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Cabin Noise
Date: Aug 01, 2000
At Oshkosh the other day a friend told me that someone at Van's (Scott McD?) had said that the best sound proofing is a good set of noise cancelling headsets. Having fought noise transmission once, I found out that two things are done: 1: Close any openings sound might pass through. 2: Build a high density wall - lead or cheaper, concrete. For the airplane only #1 is good as weight is bad, no? I suspect much of what is sold for this purpose has little effect and high cost. Hal Kempthorne 2578 Elliot Court Santa Clara, CA 95051-1849 408.244.4984 CELL 408.230.0891 RV6a N7HK 99% 1965 Debonair for sale! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Why run the fuel vents through the cockpit?
Date: Aug 01, 2000
> >Does anyone know why Van runs the fuel vent lines into the cockpit and down >through the floor? I began to wonder bcz I am installing those lines in the >cockpit right now and have no guidance at all from the plans about where to >bring the lines through the side of the airplane. I get sick (sorta) every >time I have to drill another hole through the side of the airplane. That >all made me wonder why we put those vent lines in the cockpit to begin with. > >Steve Soule >Huntington, VT > Well, since you want to run the vent line higher than the tank and then down to below the fuselage, where else could they go?? If you simply ran the vent lines down below the wing I believe you'd run the risk of draining a large amount of fuel should you slip the aircraft. John Ammeter 1975 Jensen Healey RV-6 (sold 4/98) EAA Technical Counselor NRA Life Member Council Member, Snohomish Indian Tribe http://members.home.net/ammeterj ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Why run the fuel vents through the cockpit?
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Steve, While you would have to ask Van to make sure I suspect it has something to do with the aerobatic capabilities of the aircraft. You have to have that big upward loop so that when the aircraft is inverted you don't loose all the fuel overboard. If you are building an -8 there should be a small hole in the skin right where the bulkhead fitting goes...at least there was in mine......I think... Mike Robertson RV-8A >From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: "Rv-List (E-mail)" >Subject: RV-List: Why run the fuel vents through the cockpit? >Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:32:01 -0400 > > >Does anyone know why Van runs the fuel vent lines into the cockpit and down >through the floor? I began to wonder bcz I am installing those lines in >the >cockpit right now and have no guidance at all from the plans about where to >bring the lines through the side of the airplane. I get sick (sorta) every >time I have to drill another hole through the side of the airplane. That >all made me wonder why we put those vent lines in the cockpit to begin >with. > >Steve Soule >Huntington, VT > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TCN44257(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Homemade Air Dryer
Yes ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: RE: MicroAir (was RST intercom for sale)
Date: Aug 01, 2000
I saw the forth coming MicroAir models at OSH. I believe the new one has a voice activated intercom. The literature is around here somewhere. They have a transponder that is the same shape and size too. Both are available within a year, I was told. I plan on using both in my RV-8. At last, I made a definitive panel related decision!! (For now...) Larry Bowen Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com Web: http://BowenAero.com Pat Perry wrote: Rick, Keep in mind the microair is a pushbutton intercom not voice activated. I just went over the schematics for the microair and noticed this, I had been assuming it was a typical voice activated. I just might get a seperate intercom for mine to avoid the extra switch on the stick. Just thought I'd mention this because it caught me by suprise. Pat Perry Dallas, PA RV-4 N154PK wiring and pre paint finish work. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: clayfly(at)libertybay.com.Tue,
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0004645836@mail-2.lbay.net>; Tue, 01 Aug 2000 18:24:21.-0700(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Engine Ground Testing: Redlining CHTs
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Hmm. Well that's an interesting thought. I'll double check the RMI manual to make sure we're talking C, not F. My mechanic said it was simply impossible to get to redline w/in 1 minute of starting, so I'm almost certain it is the gauges (thank goodness). I suspect I used the wrong connectors between the CHT cable and the RMI monitor. I hope to check this tomorrow. Will let the list know in case somebody else has a similar problem. Tom, thanks for thinking about my problem with me --- I really appreciate it. Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X, just weighed it at 1019 (w/ 0-360 & metal prop) > Hi Clay > > After I wrote this morning, I had another thought. Are you sure you are > reading temperature in centigrade. The temps you lists would not be unusual > if they were Fahrenheit. I get about 280F while taxiing out after 5 to 10 > minutes. > > let me know what you find out! > > Tom > > > _- =========================================================== > _- =========================================================== > _- =========================================================== > _- =========================================================== > > >** --------- End Original Message ----------- ** > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Subject: Vacation Time-Unsubscribe
Time for a short vacation. unsubscribe. Jim Nice ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Subject: Re: vent oil separator question
In a message dated 8/1/00 11:13:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pperryrv(at)hotmail.com writes: << I'm curious if anyone has experience with the oil separators sold in aircraft spuces's catalog. I purchased one for my RV-4 but after looking at it I'm not sure if its worth the trouble of finding space to mount it. >> The $40 one works great if you do the mod to install stainless steel pot scrubber pads. It gives the vapor something to condense on. Check the archives for details. Somebody said that they didn't get any oil on the belly during taxi testing. Just wait till you get it in the air making some serious power and you'll be singing a different tune. IMO, every bit of muck you can keep off the belly is worth whatever small price these things cost. -GV (RV-6A N1GV) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2000
From: RE Miller <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooling - RV8 - 200HP - Hot Climate
> 1. In equivalent sizes S&W cools better than > Positech. > Also a good source for 9 row S&W or Niagra would be > great to find. > Esten Spears, 8AQ, 80922, Fuse I spoke with the owner of Pacific Oil Cooler Service in his booth at Oshkosh. He went into detail on how the various coolers were constructed and which features were preferable. One shocker--SW and Niagra are NOT the same although their name is often used interchangably. He told me to buy the SW and that he'd beat anybody's price (Grain of salt taken). His number is 18008667335. Rob Miller 80153 Finishing Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)micron.net>
Subject: Re: HVLP vs. Conventional Spray Guns
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Hmm, interesting. I couldn't find the info you referred to but I *have* used both HVLP and "regular" spray guns and I know I used (and cleaned up overspray from) a LOT more than an additional 4%-6% when using a high pressure gun. I think something might be unusual about the way they measured the results (like they sprayed the inside of a box or something). Ed Bundy - Eagle, ID RV6A - First flight 11/20/96 ebundy(at)micron.net > > While researching paints, I found this study that Dupont did on HVLP vs. > conventional guns. > http://partners.dupont.com/Finishes/webpub.nsf?OpenDatabase under > "Equipment" and then "07/21/1999____HVLP Spray Gun Study" > > Very interesting read. The bottom line.....HVLP only increases transfer > efficiency (a measurement of the amount of paint that is deposited on the > desired surface, divided by the amount that was sprayed. The calculation is > normally done on a paint solids basis) by 4% to 6%. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com>
Subject: finish kit
Date: Aug 01, 2000
Just finished inventorying my -6 finish kit. Such a good feeling to see very little aluminum in the box. Kit arrived almost two weeks early for some reason. Was surprised to see that the air intake is already mounted to the bottom of cowling. Also, fiberglass gear leg fairings came standard. The only thing backordered was the wheelpants. That works out ok because I am trying to get a set of George O's new wheelpants with the built in bulkhead to keep stuff from getting in the aft section of the wheelpant. For those interested, the frieght charge to Oklahoma was $276. My neighbors want the box when I'm done. They said just add a liner and it would make a dandy above ground swimming pool!! Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6 fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooling - RV8 - 200HP - Hot Climate
Date: Aug 02, 2000
Had a similar dialogue. The name that goes with one of the two is Harrison((??) I think. He also seemed to have a good story and deal on "overhauling/rebuilding" existing oil coolers. I was impressed enough that I suggested to my friend who is also building an RV6 and has a SW from an older Mooney that he consider having this guy take a look at it. Seemed to know well what he was talking about (but then again, most anyone probably could have impressed me in this area ;-) ) James ----- Original Message ----- From: "RE Miller" <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 11:46 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Cooling - RV8 - 200HP - Hot Climate > > > > 1. In equivalent sizes S&W cools better than > > Positech. > > Also a good source for 9 row S&W or Niagra would be > > great to find. > > Esten Spears, 8AQ, 80922, Fuse > > I spoke with the owner of Pacific Oil Cooler Service > in his booth at Oshkosh. He went into detail on how > the various coolers were constructed and which > features were preferable. One shocker--SW and Niagra > are NOT the same although their name is often used > interchangably. He told me to buy the SW and that > he'd beat anybody's price (Grain of salt taken). His > number is 18008667335. > > Rob Miller > 80153 Finishing > > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. > http://invites.yahoo.com/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2000
From: Ken Cottrell <tech2k(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Van's Homecoming
Hi everyone, I have yet to completely purchase the quickbuild or the tail kit, however have purchased the preview plans and a couple of other things... I have been advised to go up to Aurora for the homecoming in September. Is there anyone from the San Francisco Bay area, (or Southern California area that will need to be stopping for fuel around the Northern part of California) that has an empty seat that wants to split expenses? Room/Fuel/Car if needed, etc.. Please either E-Mail me directly at tech2k(at)pacbell.net or get a hold of me some other way. Thank you very much, Kenneth R. Cottrell 248 Pamela Drive #24 Mountain View, CA 94040 (650) 906-4029 (mobile) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Airbatix(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Why run the fuel vents through the cockpit?
steve, i am at same point, and i am with you, and i also own a cessna 150 aerobat...often go inverted, and never spill fuel...intuitively, there must be a better way to vent these tanks than to bring potential fuel or fuel vapors back into the cockpit or near the engine exhaust...in the absence of a better idea, i'll do it "van's way"...but i have a few more weeks to figure this out... thanx paul montgomery rv6a---ready for final assembly ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2000
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Cowl Measurements, was: finish kit
> Just finished inventorying my -6 finish kit. Such a good feeling to > see > very little aluminum in the box. Kit arrived almost two weeks early > for some reason. Hey Jerry, You have all sorts of good news! Chin scoop is mounted, arrived early... Congratulations! My finish kit is promised for 9 October - maybe I'll get it early too (X fingers and toes). Now that you have it, I've been meaning to get a post out here to ask about the height of the bottom cowl against the skin. I'm not quite, but close to, ready to rivet the bottom/side skins on but want to cut the NACA vent holes first - seems like it will be easier with the skin off the frame. I also want to stow my hinge pin in the scoop, so I need to position the hole accurately based on the joint line between the cowl halves. If you could just make some measurements for me, that'd be great. Say, from the main longeron? Anybody else who has whatever style cowl they're shipping now please chime in. Have fun with that finish kit! Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Fuselage Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DWENSING(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Homemade Air Dryer
In a message dated 8/1/00 12:35:46 PM Central Daylight Time, Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM writes: << but I swore I'd never buy tampons again after the divorce... >> ........how about disposable baby diapers? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Why run the fuel vents through the cockpit?
From: Don R Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
I think anti-siffen. Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com ********************************************** writes: > Does anyone know why Van runs the fuel vent lines into the cockpit > and down > through the floor? > Steve Soule > Huntington, VT > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2000
From: Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)atmel.com>
Subject: Flight Planning Link...
I found this GREAT site with a bunch of FREE flight planning and weather stuff... It has printable sectionals for free also... http://aeroplanner.com Bill VonDane, Colorado Springs, CO RV-8A, N8VD, Wings http://vondane.com/rv8a/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooling - RV8 - 200HP - Hot Climate
Date: Aug 02, 2000
> >Had a similar dialogue. The name that goes with one of the two is >Harrison((??) I think. > >He also seemed to have a good story and deal on "overhauling/rebuilding" >existing oil coolers. I was impressed enough that I suggested to my friend >who is also building an RV6 and has a SW from an older Mooney that he >consider having this guy take a look at it. Seemed to know well what he was >talking about (but then again, most anyone probably could have impressed me >in this area ;-) ) > >James > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "RE Miller" <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com> >To: >Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 11:46 PM >Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Cooling - RV8 - 200HP - Hot Climate > > > > > > > > > 1. In equivalent sizes S&W cools better than > > > Positech. > > > Also a good source for 9 row S&W or Niagra would be > > > great to find. > > > Esten Spears, 8AQ, 80922, Fuse > > > > I spoke with the owner of Pacific Oil Cooler Service > > in his booth at Oshkosh. He went into detail on how > > the various coolers were constructed and which > > features were preferable. One shocker--SW and Niagra > > are NOT the same although their name is often used > > interchangably. He told me to buy the SW and that > > he'd beat anybody's price (Grain of salt taken). His > > number is 18008667335. > > > > Rob Miller > > 80153 Finishing I had a similar visit with this guy at Copperstate last year. The Niagara and Stewart Warner are NOT identical, but much closer than a Positech and either of the other two. In his opinion, which is backed by being in this business for a LONG time, the Positech coolers are completely unsuited for use in an aircraft. I have one, and think they are superbly constructed and robust, but it's obvious they won't pass as much air as the other coolers. Mine does work, but gets "heat soaked" after a long climb and takes forever to bring the temp down. So, I may install the Niagara (from Van's) that I have still in the box and see what happens. Oh, and I'm gonna move that "oil to cooler" hose down to the "correct" port! Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DWENSING(at)AOL.COM.Wed,
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0004659802@mail-2.lbay.net>; Wed, 02 Aug 2000 07:56:20.-0700(at)matronics.com
Date: Aug 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Homemade Air Dryer
In a message dated 8/1/00 12:35:46 PM Central Daylight Time, Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM writes: << but I swore I'd never buy tampons again after the divorce... >> ........how about disposable baby diapers? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Why run the fuel vents through the cockpit?
From: Don R Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
I think anti-siffen. Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com ********************************************** writes: > Does anyone know why Van runs the fuel vent lines into the cockpit > and down > through the floor? > Steve Soule > Huntington, VT > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooling - RV8 - 200HP - Hot Climate
Date: Aug 02, 2000
> >Had a similar dialogue. The name that goes with one of the two is >Harrison((??) I think. > >He also seemed to have a good story and deal on "overhauling/rebuilding" >existing oil coolers. I was impressed enough that I suggested to my friend >who is also building an RV6 and has a SW from an older Mooney that he >consider having this guy take a look at it. Seemed to know well what he was >talking about (but then again, most anyone probably could have impressed me >in this area ;-) ) > >James > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "RE Miller" <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com> >To: >Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 11:46 PM >Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Cooling - RV8 - 200HP - Hot Climate > > > > > > > > > 1. In equivalent sizes S&W cools better than > > > Positech. > > > Also a good source for 9 row S&W or Niagra would be > > > great to find. > > > Esten Spears, 8AQ, 80922, Fuse > > > > I spoke with the owner of Pacific Oil Cooler Service > > in his booth at Oshkosh. He went into detail on how > > the various coolers were constructed and which > > features were preferable. One shocker--SW and Niagra > > are NOT the same although their name is often used > > interchangably. He told me to buy the SW and that > > he'd beat anybody's price (Grain of salt taken). His > > number is 18008667335. > > > > Rob Miller > > 80153 Finishing I had a similar visit with this guy at Copperstate last year. The Niagara and Stewart Warner are NOT identical, but much closer than a Positech and either of the other two. In his opinion, which is backed by being in this business for a LONG time, the Positech coolers are completely unsuited for use in an aircraft. I have one, and think they are superbly constructed and robust, but it's obvious they won't pass as much air as the other coolers. Mine does work, but gets "heat soaked" after a long climb and takes forever to bring the temp down. So, I may install the Niagara (from Van's) that I have still in the box and see what happens. Oh, and I'm gonna move that "oil to cooler" hose down to the "correct" port! Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TCN44257(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Homemade Air Dryer
I would guess anything that will absorb moisture would work. Some diapers have exterior linings to prevent moisture from passing through the outer layer. That may hinder moisture absorption. The person I know that used this homemade dryer used the cheapest napkins he could find. Get the girl friend or neighbor lady to make the purchase for you. Waded paper towel may also work. At any rate put the dryer at the end of a hose and not directly at the compressor. This will give the moisture a chance to condense in the hose. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lkyswede(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 02, 2000
Subject: Re: =?UTF-8?Q?Re: RV6-List: Official Usage Guideline [Plea?
=?UTF-8?Q?se Read] [Monthly Posting]? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Oil cooler hookup update - flight test data RV4
I believe you want the oil output from the engine to run to the bottom i.e. the lowest port in the oil cooler. Feeding oil from the bottom will prevent the heat exchanger from becoming air bound. You want the cooler full of oil when working. The top outlet from the cooler runs to the engine return. As you described, as per the Lycoming literature, the center port between the mags is the engine oil outlet. ( at least it is this way on the O-360. I'll offer up the following based on my recent flight experience with my RV4. I am running a Sport Aero, fuel injected, O-360, constant speed prop equipped with a Sam James plenum chamber. The oil cooler is mounted and ducted directly off the rear of # 4 cylinder. Initially, I had constructed an oil cooler slide door arrangement that provided 6 5/8" diameter holes between the plenum chamber and the oil cooler ducting. This is approximately 2.25 square inches. The standard 3" round oil duct would provide about 7 square inches. In this configuration, I was running 220 to 225 degree oil with ambient temperatures of 85F at cruise. The oil trended hotter when running at slower than cruise speed. I was not comfortable running this hot. I had a quick consult with Bart LaBlonde - Sport Aero who suggested 210F as a Max oil temp target. I then opened up the area between the plenum and the oil cooler duct to provide for 4.25 square inches of opening. This was about a 70% increase. Subsequent flights at 65F ambient yielded oil temps in cruise of 170F. I had to close the oil door partially to get the oil temp back up to 180F. At 85F ambient, oil temps have been running at 190F in cruise with the oil door wide open. Slowing down in the pattern or doing slow flight increases the oil temp to 200 to 210 with 85F ambient. I have again increased the opening about another square inch, so now there is a max opening of 5.25 to 5.5 square inches. I have not test flown the aircraft in this configuration yet. The 4.25 inch opening was probably OK for here in the East. I decided I wanted to provide a little more margin for hotter ambient temps. You do have to add "Open oil cooler door for landing" to the checklist as the oil heats up at slower speeds. I have achieved my equivalent opening through a number of smaller holes. One big hole would provide less air resistance than the group of equivalent smaller holes (less circumference to the area) I am not sure how the static air pressure in the plenum chamber would compare to a conventional baffling setup. I suspect it might be higher than a standard setup. Less air pressure under the cowl would require more oil cooler area opening. This is evident on my airplane when slowing down. A decrease in speed, decreases the air pressure in the plenum with a subsequent rise in the oil temperature. With this being said, I would not recommend reducing the oil cooling ducting below 3" with standard baffling. Tom Brown RV4 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Lots of new goodies . . .
We've added quite a few new goodies which I won't list here except for one item . . . we've checked out a dozen or so sample tools from various sources trying to replace the discontinued AMP Service Tool II. It did a nice job on both open-barrel D-sub pins -AND- the white plastic nylon connectors from AMP and Molex that are popular with the Whelan et. als. Best part was that it didn't cost an arm and a leg. We've selected a tool that does a nice job on the full range of pins from the 20 AWG D-sub pins up through the .093" pins used in the larger Molex connectors. Our stocking order has been placed so we can take orders for the tool now. Check out this and other additions to: http://www.aeroelectric.com/whatsnew.html -and- http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/catalog.html Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) ( and still understand nothing. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2000
From: Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Neat Egress Tool
Found a kinda neat egress tool for $24.95 Check site at: http://www.tft.com/products/res-q-rench/ Please - info only. No "to egress tool or not to egress tool" wars... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2000
From: Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)atmel.com>
Subject: Introduction
Hi Cliff... Here are some RV-9A web links: Steven Curran - http://members.tripod.com/~s.curran/ Chris Heitman - http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html Steven and Mary Wessel - http://web.tampabay.rr.com/rv9a/ Bill VonDane, Colorado Springs, CO RV-8A, N8VD, Wings http://vondane.com/rv8a/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cliff Begnaud Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 8:34 AM Subject: RV-List: Introduction I do have a favor to ask; would those of you building a 9 that have a web site (or know of someone who does), please send me the link? Regards, Cliff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Aborted Oshkosh trip
I had planned to arrive at OSH mid-day on Saturday, so I could make Van's dinner, and the RV-8 get together Sunday morning. Well, the stack of cards came crashing down early Saturday morning when my mother-in-law passed away. I went straight to Green Bay to be with my wife. I did manage to get ahold of Tom Green, so he should have been able to give my dinner ticket to someone else. I was looking forward to meeting a bunch of you, but it just wasn't meant to be. Maybe next year I can make it. Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit stuff) khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home) Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work) http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2000
Subject: Cowl Measurements, was: finish kit
From: Don R Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
Mike: I left the top cowl as my referance fitting line after sandding it flat. Then fit the lower cowl to it. I had already installed the vents in the side skins & there were off about 1/4 inch from each other. I have 6 scales, they must be off. So I got to go with the pins up front. What i am trying to get at is I would leave them till last till the cowling is nailed if you want the pins to go through the vents. Just do it before the top skin goes on. Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com ********************************************** snipped======== > I also want to stow my hinge pin in the scoop, so I need to position > the hole accurately based on the joint line between the cowl halves. > > If you could just make some measurements for me, that'd be great. > Say, > from the main longeron? Anybody else who has whatever style cowl > they're shipping now please chime in. > > Have fun with that finish kit! > > Mike Thompson > Austin, TX > -6 N140RV (Reserved) > Fuselage > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Cabin Noise
Date: Aug 02, 2000
A/S sells some sound proofing material that can be purchased by the yard at varying thicknesses. The Orndorff (sp?) tapes show a way to use this (with a covering a aluminum foil) on the inside of the firewall, which I plan on doing. Another tape (it may be his "upholstery finishing" tape, I'm not sure) shows a technique of cutting a 2 or 3 inch by 12 inch strip of this stuff and adhering it (via spray adhesive) the the skins behind the seats, one strip per skin. This sort of dampens out "metalic"/"tincanning" types of sounds. Not having tried any of this, this is what I'm planning on doing and I went ahead and got the material from Aircraft Spruce. Rick Jory, RV8A QB -----Original Message----- From: kempthornes <kempthornes(at)home.com> Date: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 4:42 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin Noise > >At Oshkosh the other day a friend told me that someone at Van's (Scott McD?) >had said that the best sound proofing is a good set of noise cancelling >headsets. > >Having fought noise transmission once, I found out that two things are done: > >1: Close any openings sound might pass through. > >2: Build a high density wall - lead or cheaper, concrete. > >For the airplane only #1 is good as weight is bad, no? I suspect much of >what is sold for this purpose has little effect and high cost. > >Hal Kempthorne >2578 Elliot Court >Santa Clara, CA 95051-1849 >408.244.4984 CELL 408.230.0891 >RV6a N7HK 99% >1965 Debonair for sale! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Oshkosh Trip - Long
In a message dated 08/01/2000 10:53:56 PM Central Daylight Time, jclark(at)conterra.com writes: << They were hoping to get a picture next to the 1/2 scale (3/4 scale???) "Lil Beautiful Doll" metal Mustang scale replica and the *real* "Beautiful Doll". Don't know if they did but it would make a GREAT photo!! >> The 3/4 scale mustang was a stewart Mustang. The company is under new ownership though ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2000
From: Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net>
Subject: Canopy Rivets AACQ-4-4
I am getting ready to rivet the canopy and the plans call for AACQ-4-4 rivets, which I can not find the bag number they are supposed to be in. I did find some rivets that I am sure are them in another bag that I can not confirm the contents. These rivets are aluminum counter sunk with aluminum shafts. They are also 1/8 diameter and about 1/4 inch long. Does this sound like the right ones? Jim Cimino RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL Reserved http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo (570)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2000
From: Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net>
Subject: Forgot about this?
When drill the canopy to the top of the canopy frame, these holes must also be counter sunk. Is there any special way to counter sink these directly into the canopy, or just do it with a standard counter sink. This worked ok on the landing light lenses. Jim Cimino RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL Reserved http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo (570)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Homemade Air Dryer
>I would guess anything that will absorb moisture would work. Some diapers >have exterior linings to prevent moisture from passing through the outer >layer. That may hinder moisture absorption. The person I know that used this >homemade dryer used the cheapest napkins he could find. Get the girl friend >or neighbor lady to make the purchase for you. Waded paper towel may also >work. At any rate put the dryer at the end of a hose and not directly at the >compressor. This will give the moisture a chance to condense in the hose. Getting the moisture out of compressed air is a pretty rudimentary science. There are a number of things you can do to "wet" air to make it give up disolved water molecules. Contact with LOTS of surface area (like the fiber filters cited) will take out SOME moisture . . . but once it becomes saturated, it's not going to take any more out. Same thing with hygroscopic materials like silica gels, kitty-litter, etc. The hygroscopic traps need to be periodically regenrated by baking the absorbtion medium in an oven at 250F + degrees. Having wrestled with the wet air problems in two facilities I'll have to suggest that COOLING the compressed air is the BEST way to get it dry. Our large volume air distribution system at Electro-Mech took the warm compressed air right out of the compressor through a fan cooled heat exchanger. The inner tubes were sloped so that water condensing on inside walls of the exchanger ran downhill into a trap at the low point. There was an automatic drain at the bottom of the main storage tank. This exchanger trap and tank drain removed the vast majority of air ingested. The next step was to slope all horizontal runs of distribution piping downward at about 2" per 10' so that water condensing out on piping was swept toward far end where there were more traps with drains. Branches off the main distribution were T-connections pointing UP were a 6" upward stub made a u-turn with two elbows before dropping to the factory floor. This prevented water lying on the bottom of the distribution pipe from being swept into the final distribution drop line. When the air needs to VERY dry, you cool it as much below room temperature as possible. I had an ice bath in one lab that surrounded about 50" of 3/4" copper tubing. Again, down-sloped tubing feeds a lowpoint trap and drain. The final step was a hygroscopic filter that would push the moisture content down to a few milligrams per liter at 100 psi. For higher volume flows like for spray painting, log runs of distribution piping at room temperature (air conditioning in your shop does wonders for drying air in the lines) is pretty inexpensive and easy to build. You need to use copper line for this . . . plastic is okay pressure wise but doesn't cool the contents fast enough to precipitate out the water. You can build a dryer out of 3/4" copper and zig-zag a run on the wall for as much length as you care to buy and assemble . . . I'd suggest 40' as a minimum. Space off the wall and blow ambient air over it with a fan. Put a low point trap and a good riser from the trap to your supply line and you'll be surprised how much water you can drain from the trap every hour. One builder I met at a fly-in told me about a dryer he made with an ordinary refrigerator. He build a loosely coiled copper "still" trap from 100' of soft copper. He installed it in the cold-box volume of the reefer and put some circulating fans inside. With the fans running and the box set for max cold, he was able spray very water sensitive paints in his Houston TX shop with outside humidities running in the 60s . . . Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) ( and still understand nothing. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Forgot about this?
Date: Aug 02, 2000
Jim, When I did mine I just used the microstop with the standard piloted countersink on my Makita electric drill. It worked out great and I was able to complete my canopy with no defects or cracks. AS everyone has mentioned before, the real secret is to make sure the plexiglass is warm (at least 70) when you do it. Mike Robertson RV-8A Couple more hoses and engine start time >From: Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Forgot about this? >Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 14:41:38 -0400 > > >When drill the canopy to the top of the canopy frame, these holes must also >be counter sunk. Is there any special way to counter sink these directly >into the canopy, or just do it with a standard counter sink. This worked >ok on the landing light lenses. > > >Jim Cimino >RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL Reserved >http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo >(570)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2000
From: Chris Browne <cebrowne(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: GPS Only IFR
Apparently, there is good news for those of us wanting a "light" IFR airplane. This question is addressed in the archives but without a definitive answer. Since I am just starting my instrument rating, I discussed GPS IFR with my CFII who is up to date with this issue. The bottom line is that a GPS, approved for enroute, terminal, and TSO C129a certified for non-precision approach, permits you to do IFR without anything else, period. I'm told that the number of GPS approaches grows every day and, in fact, a GPS approach was just added to the airport I fly out of. While you cannot do precision approaches, you will just have slightly higher minimums. If that is not an issue, you can simply install a unit like the GNC 420, a CDI, the usual gyros, and a transponder. This will fit my plans perfectly, and I suspect others, as well. Chris Browne -6A finish Atlanta ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Subject: RV-9 Web Sites
Date: Aug 02, 2000
02:00:31 PM Repost with title change bvondane(at)atmel.com@matronics.com on 08/02/2000 12:52:28 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: RE: RV-List: Introduction Hi Cliff... Here are some RV-9A web links: Steven Curran - http://members.tripod.com/~s.curran/ Chris Heitman - http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html Steven and Mary Wessel - http://web.tampabay.rr.com/rv9a/ Bill VonDane, Colorado Springs, CO RV-8A, N8VD, Wings http://vondane.com/rv8a/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cliff Begnaud Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 8:34 AM Subject: RV-List: Introduction I do have a favor to ask; would those of you building a 9 that have a web site (or know of someone who does), please send me the link? Regards, Cliff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy Rivets AACQ-4-4
Date: Aug 02, 2000
Jim, The rivets are aluminum - you can feel the weight difference from the steel one - use a magnet if in question. We had to look around for them also. Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A (at the hangar) Niantic, CT (Westerly) >From: Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Canopy Rivets AACQ-4-4 >Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 14:38:53 -0400 > > >I am getting ready to rivet the canopy and the plans call for AACQ-4-4 >rivets, which I can not find the bag number they are supposed to be in. I >did find some rivets that I am sure are them in another bag that I can not >confirm the contents. These rivets are aluminum counter sunk with aluminum >shafts. They are also 1/8 diameter and about 1/4 inch long. Does this >sound like the right ones? > > >Jim Cimino >RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL Reserved >http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo >(570)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Introduction
Date: Aug 02, 2000
Cliff & Patti, Welcome aboard - We saw the 9A at Van's in North Plains and now Dave is thinking how neat it would be to have an 8A & 9A. Good Building, Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A (at the hangar - but still wiring) Niantic, CT (Westerly) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2000
Subject: : Canopy Rivets AACQ-4-4
From: Don R Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
Van's catalog p 47 calls out the blind rivets. Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com ********************************************** > > I am getting ready to rivet the canopy and the plans call for > AACQ-4-4 > rivets, which I can not find the bag number they are supposed to be > in. I > did find some rivets that I am sure are them in another bag that I > can not > confirm the contents. These rivets are aluminum counter sunk with > aluminum > shafts. They are also 1/8 diameter and about 1/4 inch long. Does > this > sound like the right ones? > > > Jim Cimino > RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL Reserved > http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo > (570)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: GPS Only IFR
> > > The bottom line is that a GPS, approved for enroute, terminal, and TSO C129a > certified for non-precision approach, permits you to do IFR without anything > else, period. > I have a Garmin GNC 300XL GPS / COMM that meets the TSO C129 certified for non-precision approach specs. I asked the question about IFR on the GPS alone and the consensus between the FAA FSDO people and the Garmin people is that it may NOT be used as a sole navigation reference for IFR flight (even enroute). They described it as "supplemental" to traditional VOR receivers. If I ever decide to upgrade my panel to IFR, I have been under the impression that I would need to add a VOR receiver. Please correct me if I am wrong. It would be good news to me. -Glenn Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Canopy Rivets AACQ-4-4
In a message dated 8/2/00 3:12:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jcimino(at)epix.net writes: << I am getting ready to rivet the canopy and the plans call for AACQ-4-4 rivets, which I can not find the bag number they are supposed to be in. I did find some rivets that I am sure are them in another bag that I can not confirm the contents. These rivets are aluminum counter sunk with aluminum shafts. They are also 1/8 diameter and about 1/4 inch long. Does this sound like the right ones? >> Jim, this sounds right. One way to tell is that these rivets are very soft when you pull 'em, so try one. KB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Cowl Measurements, was: finish kit
In a message dated 8/2/00 2:25:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dons6a(at)juno.com writes: << So I got to go with the pins up front. What i am trying to get at is I would leave them till last till the cowling is nailed if you want the pins to go through the vents. Just do it before the top skin goes on. Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com >> Don is correct regarding when to place the vents if you wanna incorporate them into your cowl securing scheme. I placed mine according to plans, and they are 3/8" or so too low to use 'em as hinge pin attachment points. The thing is, I'm not sure if they are too low, or if I trimmed the top cowl too much. The world wonders.. KB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: GPS Only IFR
Date: Aug 02, 2000
Can of worms time. FAR 91.205(d) is our guideline here. All it says is that the aircraft must be equipped with a two-way radio communications system and navigational equipment appropriate to the ground facilities to be used. But when we go to the AIM in paragraph 1-1-21.b.1.(b) we see that it clearly states that an alternate means of monitoring must be installed. It need not be on or used but it must be there and work. Soooo...if you have an IFR certified GPS installed then you must also have a VOR installed. If you get a Garmin 430 then you have everything you need right there except the CDI/OBS indicator and the transponder. Mike Robertson Das Fed RV-8A >From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: GPS Only IFR >Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:51:26 -0500 > > > > > > > > The bottom line is that a GPS, approved for enroute, terminal, and TSO >C129a > > certified for non-precision approach, permits you to do IFR without >anything > > else, period. > > > >I have a Garmin GNC 300XL GPS / COMM that meets the TSO C129 certified for >non-precision approach specs. >I asked the question about IFR on the GPS alone and the consensus between >the >FAA FSDO people and the Garmin people is that it may NOT be used as a sole >navigation reference for IFR flight (even enroute). They described it as >"supplemental" to traditional VOR receivers. > >If I ever decide to upgrade my panel to IFR, I have been under the >impression >that I would need to add a VOR receiver. > >Please correct me if I am wrong. It would be good news to me. > >-Glenn Gordon > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: GPS Only IFR
Do you think a hand held VOR transceiver qualified as an alternative means of navigation? Mike Robertson wrote: > > Can of worms time. FAR 91.205(d) is our guideline here. All it says is > that the aircraft must be equipped with a two-way radio communications > system and navigational equipment appropriate to the ground facilities to be > used. But when we go to the AIM in paragraph 1-1-21.b.1.(b) we see that it > clearly states that an alternate means of monitoring must be installed. It > need not be on or used but it must be there and work. Soooo...if you have > an IFR certified GPS installed then you must also have a VOR installed. If > you get a Garmin 430 then you have everything you need right there except > the CDI/OBS indicator and the transponder. > > Mike Robertson > Das Fed > RV-8A > > >From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Re: RV-List: GPS Only IFR > >Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:51:26 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > The bottom line is that a GPS, approved for enroute, terminal, and TSO > >C129a > > > certified for non-precision approach, permits you to do IFR without > >anything > > > else, period. > > > > > > >I have a Garmin GNC 300XL GPS / COMM that meets the TSO C129 certified for > >non-precision approach specs. > >I asked the question about IFR on the GPS alone and the consensus between > >the > >FAA FSDO people and the Garmin people is that it may NOT be used as a sole > >navigation reference for IFR flight (even enroute). They described it as > >"supplemental" to traditional VOR receivers. > > > >If I ever decide to upgrade my panel to IFR, I have been under the > >impression > >that I would need to add a VOR receiver. > > > >Please correct me if I am wrong. It would be good news to me. > > > >-Glenn Gordon > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: GPS Only IFR
Date: Aug 02, 2000
It might. That one depends a little on the inspector you work with. Normally an inspector wants to see it physically installed. Mike Robertson Das Fed RV-8A...bout to be finished >From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: GPS Only IFR >Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 18:29:25 -0500 > > >Do you think a hand held VOR transceiver qualified as an alternative means >of >navigation? > >Mike Robertson wrote: > > > > > Can of worms time. FAR 91.205(d) is our guideline here. All it says >is > > that the aircraft must be equipped with a two-way radio communications > > system and navigational equipment appropriate to the ground facilities >to be > > used. But when we go to the AIM in paragraph 1-1-21.b.1.(b) we see that >it > > clearly states that an alternate means of monitoring must be installed. >It > > need not be on or used but it must be there and work. Soooo...if you >have > > an IFR certified GPS installed then you must also have a VOR installed. >If > > you get a Garmin 430 then you have everything you need right there >except > > the CDI/OBS indicator and the transponder. > > > > Mike Robertson > > Das Fed > > RV-8A > > > > >From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> > > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > >Subject: Re: RV-List: GPS Only IFR > > >Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:51:26 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The bottom line is that a GPS, approved for enroute, terminal, and >TSO > > >C129a > > > > certified for non-precision approach, permits you to do IFR without > > >anything > > > > else, period. > > > > > > > > > >I have a Garmin GNC 300XL GPS / COMM that meets the TSO C129 certified >for > > >non-precision approach specs. > > >I asked the question about IFR on the GPS alone and the consensus >between > > >the > > >FAA FSDO people and the Garmin people is that it may NOT be used as a >sole > > >navigation reference for IFR flight (even enroute). They described it >as > > >"supplemental" to traditional VOR receivers. > > > > > >If I ever decide to upgrade my panel to IFR, I have been under the > > >impression > > >that I would need to add a VOR receiver. > > > > > >Please correct me if I am wrong. It would be good news to me. > > > > > >-Glenn Gordon > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: JC Whitney Strip Lights
Date: Aug 02, 2000
There is a light bulb available in local auto parts stores that might be what you want. They have a wire loop at each end. Get some clear or white plastic tubing wire the bulbs together in parallel and stuff them in the tubing. Number is 561 & they are not TSO'd. hal ----- Original Message ----- From: Norman Hunger <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 12:46 PM Subject: RV-List: JC Whitney Strip Lights > > Product Report, > > I bought three of the 24" strip lights from JC Whitney part number TC-24-W > for a total of $13.47 USD. I chose the white ones. These are made in the USA > by Vista Manufacturing. They call them Tac-Lite Strip Lighting. > > I had planned to put them along the edge of my glairsheild behind a yet to > be determined edge material, probably stiffener angle material. I should > mention that I'm planning to extend the glairsheild further back from the > panel than Vans. I would like this to be the primary panel lighting with > back up being two map lights on the tip up canopy frame. > > These strips have six small bulbs wired together and encased in a flexible > plastic strip. The cross section of this strip is shaped in a "P" making for > a nice flange to glue it on. > > I powered one of them up on the bench and darkened my shop. I was very > disappointed. They don't even get close to making enough light. > > Just to experiment further, I broke out a soldering pencil and stripped the > bulbs off all three of the strip lights. I twisted their wires together in > pairs to make a long chain of 18 bulbs quite close together. I then got a > couple of 18 gauge wires and began attaching each end of all the bulbs. I > used a wire stripper to cut the insulation and then a knife to peel it away > for about 1/4 of an inch for each pair of bulbs to get continuously soldered > onto the feed wires. This way the bulbs only carry their own current. > > I stuffed the new string into the white plastic housing and fired it up. It > works good but now it is only 22" long. I will order a whole bunch more and > continue my strip. I have yet to measure it for current draw. I don't have > to commit to this idea for quite some time. I can test further when the > whole panel is together. I like the white plastic encasement strip. The > light is soft yet bright enough once enough bulbs are soldered together. I > am hoping for a very even airline look. I have several times already been > discouraged by the large cost of high end alternatives. I am having fun > making my own for low dough as I gear myself up to begin the Rocky Mountain > Engine Monitor kit I have now got sitting on my bench. BTY, the current cost > of this with all of the options to run it that RMI has for sale came to > $1572 + $25 shipping USD or $2708.56 Canadian landed. > > > Norman Hunger > RV6A Delta BC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net>
Subject: GPS Only IFR
Date: Aug 02, 2000
I can't speak for the US but in Canada a handheld Nav with CDI or Com does not qualify as required equipment for IFR purposes. In fact, even a panel mounted Nav with built in CDI (the LED type) does not satisfy the rules. An external gauge has to be used. Are RV-8 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn & Judi Sent: August 2, 2000 7:29 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: GPS Only IFR Do you think a hand held VOR transceiver qualified as an alternative means of navigation? Mike Robertson wrote: > > Can of worms time. FAR 91.205(d) is our guideline here. All it says is > that the aircraft must be equipped with a two-way radio communications > system and navigational equipment appropriate to the ground facilities to be > used. But when we go to the AIM in paragraph 1-1-21.b.1.(b) we see that it > clearly states that an alternate means of monitoring must be installed. It > need not be on or used but it must be there and work. Soooo...if you have > an IFR certified GPS installed then you must also have a VOR installed. If > you get a Garmin 430 then you have everything you need right there except > the CDI/OBS indicator and the transponder. > > Mike Robertson > Das Fed > RV-8A > > >From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Re: RV-List: GPS Only IFR > >Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:51:26 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > The bottom line is that a GPS, approved for enroute, terminal, and TSO > >C129a > > > certified for non-precision approach, permits you to do IFR without > >anything > > > else, period. > > > > > > >I have a Garmin GNC 300XL GPS / COMM that meets the TSO C129 certified for > >non-precision approach specs. > >I asked the question about IFR on the GPS alone and the consensus between > >the > >FAA FSDO people and the Garmin people is that it may NOT be used as a sole > >navigation reference for IFR flight (even enroute). They described it as > >"supplemental" to traditional VOR receivers. > > > >If I ever decide to upgrade my panel to IFR, I have been under the > >impression > >that I would need to add a VOR receiver. > > > >Please correct me if I am wrong. It would be good news to me. > > > >-Glenn Gordon > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bob DiMeo - Oracle <dimeob(at)powertel.com.au>
Subject: GPS Only IFR
Date: Aug 03, 2000
Sorry, but I tried that one once. The unit must be panel mounted with an external antenna. Bob RV8 #423 > ---------- > From: Glenn & Judi > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 07:29 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: GPS Only IFR > > > Do you think a hand held VOR transceiver qualified as an alternative means > of > navigation? > > Mike Robertson wrote: > > > > > Can of worms time. FAR 91.205(d) is our guideline here. All it says > is > > that the aircraft must be equipped with a two-way radio communications > > system and navigational equipment appropriate to the ground facilities > to be > > used. But when we go to the AIM in paragraph 1-1-21.b.1.(b) we see that > it > > clearly states that an alternate means of monitoring must be installed. > It > > need not be on or used but it must be there and work. Soooo...if you > have > > an IFR certified GPS installed then you must also have a VOR installed. > If > > you get a Garmin 430 then you have everything you need right there > except > > the CDI/OBS indicator and the transponder. > > > > Mike Robertson > > Das Fed > > RV-8A > > > > >From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> > > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > >Subject: Re: RV-List: GPS Only IFR > > >Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:51:26 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The bottom line is that a GPS, approved for enroute, terminal, and > TSO > > >C129a > > > > certified for non-precision approach, permits you to do IFR without > > >anything > > > > else, period. > > > > > > > > > >I have a Garmin GNC 300XL GPS / COMM that meets the TSO C129 certified > for > > >non-precision approach specs. > > >I asked the question about IFR on the GPS alone and the consensus > between > > >the > > >FAA FSDO people and the Garmin people is that it may NOT be used as a > sole > > >navigation reference for IFR flight (even enroute). They described it > as > > >"supplemental" to traditional VOR receivers.


July 26, 2000 - August 02, 2000

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