RV-Archive.digest.vol-jd
August 24, 2000 - August 29, 2000
Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas Nguyen" <TNGUYEN(at)oss.oceaneering.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Pushrods |
Hi Ken,
Since you're asking, let's take a quick look at the tensile load capacity of the
Pushrods.
First, I would assume that one would follows proper instructions and tapped the
pushrod correctly (1/4" -28) and have at least 2 D threads engagement. With
the OD diameter of 0.3125" and ID of 0.25" that would give us a minimum net cross
sectional area of 0.0276 in square.
For 6061-T6 aluminum, the maximum ultimate tensile stress is 38 ksi (A basis) and
that would give us a ( 38 ksi * 0.0276 in
2) 1049 lbs ultimate tensile strength. With the safety factor of 2.0, it would
give us 525 lbs allowable load on the pushrod.
Let's say the flap weighs approximately 10 lbs (total) and you're pulling -4.0
g's, that would put 40 lbs tensile load on the push rod + the aerodynamic loads
(flaps are retracted - let's say it 20 lbs). The total tensile load on the
flap push rod would be 60 lbs. This would leave us a big margin of safety.
Threads stripping is another concern, but with enough threads engagement it would
take care the problem itself.
Please treat this as discussion information only and leave it just that.
T.Nguyen
RV-6A
N747TN (reserved)
Finishing Instrument Panel
>>> kcflyrv(at)pacbell.net 08/23/00 11:35PM >>>
I appreciate the technical information but what about a negative G load? I'd
hate to lose a flap pushrod (ever) and even though I don't plan doing
negative G maneuvers, I'd like to feel comfortable hanging from my belt on
occassion.
Ken Cantrell - 6
engine arriving next month
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/free_video/
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Nguyen <TNGUYEN(at)oss.oceaneering.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flap Pushrods
>
> Just out of curiosity, I calculated the Pcr (buckling load) for the flap
pushrod using the following information:
>
> Rod O.D = 0.3125" Wall Thickness = 0.058"
>
> Assume the effective length (Hole to Hole distance - Le) = 6 inches
>
> Using the Euler's method the Pcr can be calculated as follow:
>
> Pcr = Pi
2*E*I/Le
2
>
> With E (Young Modulus) = 10.7*10
6 psi for aluminum
> I (Cross Sectional Moment Inertia) = 3.94953*10
-4
>
> The Pcr is calculated to be 1,158 lbs for the Flap Pushrod. With a safety
factor of 2.0, this would bring the allowable load down to 579 lbs. This is
to show that Van's design on the flap push rod is a sound design and any
modifications to it would be unnecessary if you want to keep the weight
down. The tension load on the pushrod is very minimal (dead weight of the
flaps and hinge friction loads when you retract the flaps on ground. In the
air, it's all compressive load)
>
> My two cents.
>
> T.Nguyen
> RV-6A
> N747TN (reserved)
> Finishing Instrument Panel then out to the hangar
>
>
> >>> ewspears(at)peoplepc.com 08/22/00 10:42AM >>>
>
> > F659A being the little bitty hunk of tubing that you make the flap
> rod pushers out of.
> > I also thought that Van's part left much to be desired.
>
> >I haven't heard of many of them failing in service. They would >be most
> >likely to fail while raising flaps while on the ground since they >are in
> >compression when lowering and always when in the air.
>
> I know of one failure on a 6A that was built locally. It caused a
"split
> flap" on approach and could have been a real problem had the pilot not
> immediately noticed it and retracted flaps.
> Myself and several other builders here on Leeward Air Ranch are making
> the tubes out of 4130 in the same dim. as called for in 6061-T6 (5/16 X
> .058wall). This way we don't have to carve huge holes in the floor and
skin
> as would be neccessary for big dia. aluminum tube.
> Esten Spears, RV8AQB, 80922, Fuse Floors & Flap Rods
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Cantrell <kcflyrv(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Pushrods |
I appreciate the technical information but what about a negative G load? I'd
hate to lose a flap pushrod (ever) and even though I don't plan doing
negative G maneuvers, I'd like to feel comfortable hanging from my belt on
occassion.
Ken Cantrell - 6
engine arriving next month
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/free_video/
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Nguyen <TNGUYEN(at)oss.oceaneering.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flap Pushrods
>
> Just out of curiosity, I calculated the Pcr (buckling load) for the flap
pushrod using the following information:
>
> Rod O.D = 0.3125" Wall Thickness = 0.058"
>
> Assume the effective length (Hole to Hole distance - Le) = 6 inches
>
> Using the Euler's method the Pcr can be calculated as follow:
>
> Pcr = Pi
2*E*I/Le
2
>
> With E (Young Modulus) = 10.7*10
6 psi for aluminum
> I (Cross Sectional Moment Inertia) = 3.94953*10
-4
>
> The Pcr is calculated to be 1,158 lbs for the Flap Pushrod. With a safety
factor of 2.0, this would bring the allowable load down to 579 lbs. This is
to show that Van's design on the flap push rod is a sound design and any
modifications to it would be unnecessary if you want to keep the weight
down. The tension load on the pushrod is very minimal (dead weight of the
flaps and hinge friction loads when you retract the flaps on ground. In the
air, it's all compressive load)
>
> My two cents.
>
> T.Nguyen
> RV-6A
> N747TN (reserved)
> Finishing Instrument Panel then out to the hangar
>
>
> >>> ewspears(at)peoplepc.com 08/22/00 10:42AM >>>
>
> > F659A being the little bitty hunk of tubing that you make the flap
> rod pushers out of.
> > I also thought that Van's part left much to be desired.
>
> >I haven't heard of many of them failing in service. They would >be most
> >likely to fail while raising flaps while on the ground since they >are in
> >compression when lowering and always when in the air.
>
> I know of one failure on a 6A that was built locally. It caused a
"split
> flap" on approach and could have been a real problem had the pilot not
> immediately noticed it and retracted flaps.
> Myself and several other builders here on Leeward Air Ranch are making
> the tubes out of 4130 in the same dim. as called for in 6061-T6 (5/16 X
> .058wall). This way we don't have to carve huge holes in the floor and
skin
> as would be neccessary for big dia. aluminum tube.
> Esten Spears, RV8AQB, 80922, Fuse Floors & Flap Rods
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles E. Brame" <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Antennae in the wingtips |
With reference to the VOR antennae in the wingtips, will they fit if one
already has the RMD lights in the wingtip.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A QB, On the gear
San Antonio, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wultrad turn coordinator |
> Is the Wultrad turn coordinator Van carries worth the $$ or should I spend
a
> little more on another brand?? Who makes a good TC?
I've had 2 gyros go out in the first year and neither was under warranty
(one was a no-brand chinese TC from Vans, the other an O/H vacum DG with
only a 90 day warranty). Definitely take the warranty into account when
buying this stuff.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~125 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Parker43rp(at)AOL.COM.Thu, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0005243164@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Thu,
24 Aug 2000 10:07:32.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Conical Engine Mounts |
I would call Lycoming and/or Lord to find out if ypu are in doubt.
Ray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvmils(at)AOL.COM.Thu, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0005243693@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Thu,
24 Aug 2000 10:25:16.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | re-flight test data |
In a message dated 8/24/2000 3:15:31 AM Central Daylight Time,
MAILER-DAEMON(at)aol.com writes:
<< Drop me a copy if ya don't mind.
Thanks,
Carey Mills >>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
Just out of curiosity, I calculated the Pcr (buckling load) for the
flap pushrod.... is calculated to be 1,158 lbs for the Flap Pushrod. With a
safety factor of 2.0, this would bring the allowable load down to 579 lbs.
This is to show that Van's design on the flap push rod is a sound design and
any modifications to it would be unnecessary if you want to keep the weight
down. The tension load on the pushrod is very minimal (dead weight of the
flaps and hinge friction loads when you retract the flaps on ground. In the
air, it's all compressive load)
Yes, but it's still a pain in the butt to drill and tap and looks crappy.
Another lister mentioned one failure of this tube. That's one too many.
I'll use the 1/2 tubing and proper fittings again. It may be overkill, but
it's elegant, strong, and easier to make.
It's good to know that the stock ones will support 579+ pounds. How much
pressure is put on the flaps at 100 mph or so? Hmmmm, my head's starting to
hurt. I better go lie (lay?) down!
Vince in Indiana
RV-4 flying
HRII underway
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pcondon(at)csc.com.Thu, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0005244067@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Thu,
24 Aug 2000 10:40:05.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Squeezing Light Aileron To Correct Heavy Wing |
08/24/2000 01:22:43 PM
Reposted for easier e-searching
Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com on 08/24/2000 11:51:35 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV-List: Wing incidence/twist
Finn,
Have you tried squeezing the light aileron yet? You won't know unless
you try. You'll be surprised how effective it is. I don't think you'll
gain much with the flap adjustment as you will with squeezing the
ailerons. Do the simple things first. Solve the heavy wing problem, do
some stalls, then tackle the ball being in the center. One thing at a
time. Do some stalls after you have some hours on the airplane and when
you are less apprehensive and more comfortable flying the airplane.
Don't be afraid of getting out of control; you have so much control
authority at stall speeds that I'd say it would be almost impossible to
go out of control. You barely have to push on the stick to bring it out
of a stall. Go out and carefully have some fun first; you deserve
it--get comfortable. You are getting back down in one piece so that's
the most important part. So what if you lose a knot or two because
you're airplane is mis-rigged? As long as you can make it fly straight
your OK. When squeezing the ailerons, do a little at a time, fly, do a
little more, fly, lather, rinse, repeat. Enjoy.
How are you planning to readjust your incidence? You could use a larger
hole/bolt, but MAKE SURE you have the proper edge distance.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 21 hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: Morrissey, John [mailto:John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au]
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 12:40 AM
Subject: RV-List: RE: RV3-List: Wing incidence/twist
Hi Finn,
Just wind down one flap a half a turn or so. I saw a really rough
aircraft
built here in OZ that flew fine after this was done. You could actually
see
the amount of twist in the wing.
Good luck
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Finn Lassen [mailto:finnlassen(at)netzero.net]
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 1:37 PM
Subject: RV3-List: Wing incidence/twist
--> RV3-List message posted by: Finn Lassen
Well, I finally being forced to deal with a problem I've postponed.
Both my wings were built with twists in them (inadvertently, I'm sure),
the right wing more than the left.
For reasons best known to whatever I was thinking when I drilled the
rear spar attach holes last year, I set the incidence at both wings to 1
degree positive at their roots.
That means that the incidence of the outer left wing edge is 0 degrees
and 2 to 2.5 degrees (positive) at the outer right wing edge.
I'd half forgotten this, and didn't notice it again until I reached
higher speeds. At 185 mph I have to apply substantial right stick
pressure to keep wings level, and also left rudder to keep ball
centered.
The question of course is: what to do about it?
The easiest would be to add substantial aileron trim tab(s) -- just
squeezing the aileron trailing edge is not going to cut it.
I see two areas of concern:
1) added induced drag at higher speeds
2) right wing stalling first (which in retrospect is noticeable when
doing near full stall landings)
Should I change the right wing incidence so I have 1 degree at the wing
midpoint (and .25 at root and + 1.75 at tip) and handle the rest by
aileron trim?
I'll be happy to hear suggestions and reasonings for possible solutions.
(No, I'm not going to rebuild wings at this time.)
(Yes, that's the risk of buying a project started by someone else, when
you don't know what to look for).
For those concerned, I have kept my speed up at 80 mph or more in my
flight testing so far (except when just over the runway and touchdown).
I haven't done slow flight testing even at altitude yet. Everything
would seem to indicate that the right wing will drop like a rock at
stall speeds, and stall testing may quickly turn into either spin
testing or (spiral) dive testing.
Finn
Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvmils(at)AOL.COM.Thu, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0005243710@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Thu,
24 Aug 2000 10:26:16.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Flight Test Program |
Clay,
I would love to have a copy too.
Carey Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Antennae in the wingtips |
--- "Charles E. Brame" wrote:
>
> With reference to the VOR antennae in the wingtips,
> will they fit if one
> already has the RMD lights in the wingtip.
>
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A QB, On the gear
> San Antonio, TX
>
Charlie:
I have the RMD lights and Bob Archer's antennae. Yes.
2 VOR antennae. One is for the FM stereo
entertainment system and the other for the VOR. Works
great.
I will have the airplane at the Homecoming, then at
RHV RV Forum on 7 September, and the Golden West
Fly-in September 9 and,or 10. If you are in the area,
stop by.
Install the RMD lights then follow Bob directions as
close to as you can. Yes the RMD lights are in the
way but the antenna still out performs friends that
have the "cat whiskers" on the tail.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
650+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
"I never knew what real happiness was until I got married; and then it was too
late..." - Jack Handey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HCRV6(at)AOL.COM.Thu, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0005245600@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Thu,
24 Aug 2000 11:42:24.-0700(at)matronics.com
In a message dated 8/23/00 11:57:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
shurlbut(at)island.net writes:
<< You can't measure them as you can normal rivets >>
That is correct. You really should invest 10 bucks and get a Cherry rivet
gauge from ACS or elsewhere. There may be a way to get the right size
Cherrymax without one but I'm not sure I'd depend on it.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, working on canopy installation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence/twist |
Yes that is a problem. 1 degree comes out to .432 inches, so a bigger bolt
won't cut it.
The only solution I have is to fill the wing spar 1/4" hole with a 1/4" long
piece of a 1/4" bolt and then drill the new hole. I have the beefed-up
version of the rear spar attach: 1/8 + 1/8 sandwiched between 1/8" and 1/8"
fuselage angle and bar. Of course I'll have to observe the 2x edge clearance
from bottom edge to center of new hole. Problem is I'd probably have to pull
the wing out a bit to get to the existing hole -- not something I'm looking
forward to. Thus I welcome all alternatives, be it squeezing/bumping the
ailerons, added aileron trim tabs, off-setting flaps and/or a combination of
all. But 2.5 degrees of difference tip to other tip is quite a lot.
Finn
Bob Japundza wrote:
> How are you planning to readjust your incidence? You could use a larger
> hole/bolt, but MAKE SURE you have the proper edge distance.
________________________________________________________________________________
08/24/2000 03:18:06 PM
I was pissed-off that I had to get the guage. The cherry max P/N and
appliaction(s), grip & size data & material has no common rhyme or reason.
I had to get the guage to decipher the part numbers &
applications........On the bright side I now have a cool looking tool that
visitors to my shop shratch their head at while thinking "'what the hell is
this for"
HCRV6(at)aol.com on 08/24/2000 02:27:38 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: CherryMax
In a message dated 8/23/00 11:57:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
shurlbut(at)island.net writes:
<< You can't measure them as you can normal rivets >>
That is correct. You really should invest 10 bucks and get a Cherry rivet
gauge from ACS or elsewhere. There may be a way to get the right size
Cherrymax without one but I'm not sure I'd depend on it.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, working on canopy installation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BAD LUCK AWARD?? |
>
>
> OH man! OH MAN!! I see an RV owner outside his hanger with a shotgun.
> Every time an R/C plane hit the air you can hear him mutter.....PULL
>
> Sport R/C hunting. I think I may be onto something here.
>
Now that sounds like real fun!
Gary Zilik
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Log Book Entries |
Dennis Persyk wrote:
>
> I would like to make some logbook entries but I have not yet applied for my
> repairman's certificate.
> My questions are:
> 1) Can I make such entries?
I see no reason not to. The main reason for the repairman's certificate is to
be able to sign off the Annual Condition Inspection.
>
> 2) How do sign the entries?
With your Name and Date
>
> 3) Have those with Bart's engine continued using the 81/2 by 11 engine book
> or have you started a smaller one?
I have just kept the big Canadian book.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Foelker David J LtCol 50FTS/ADO <david.foelker(at)columbus.af.mil> |
| Subject: | RE: Czech-List: Unsubscribe |
Please unsubscribe me from Czech-List.
V/R,
David Foelker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larry laporte <llapo(at)dmv.com> |
| Subject: | RV4-List: (no subject) |
--> RV4-List message posted by: larry laporte
please un-subscribe to all mail list thank you
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Foelker David J LtCol 50FTS/ADO <david.foelker(at)columbus.af.mil> |
| Subject: | RV4-List: RE: Czech-List: Unsubscribe |
--> RV4-List message posted by: Foelker David J LtCol 50FTS/ADO
Please unsubscribe me from Czech-List.
V/R,
David Foelker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larry laporte <llapo(at)dmv.com> |
please un-subscribe to all mail list thank you
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Judd <sjudd(at)ffd2.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Demise of 100 LL |
Hola,
And on a related note, have there been any rumors about adapting that
fancy schmancy new Continental engine to the RV?
(If not, consider this the beginning of such a rumor).
-Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com |
| Subject: | Re: wultrad turn coordinator |
>I've had 2 gyros go out in the first year and neither was under warranty
>(one was a no-brand chinese TC from Vans, the other an O/H vacum DG with
Oh great!
I have that same $300 TC in my instrument panel. Anyone else had problems with
this?
Thanks,
- Jim
RV-8A ( engine stuff )
O-360 Sensenich ( N89JA )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Noel" <bnoel(at)ausa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Log Book Entries |
Don't forget the reference " IAW scope and detail of 43 appendix D."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Log Book Entries
>
> The initial logbook entry in the Airframe Logbook should be something to
the
> tune of: "I have inspected this aircraft in accordance with the
requirements
> of a yearly condition inspection and found it to be in a condition for
safe
> operation." Then sign it, add your SSN and the word "Builder". That
should
> satisfy your local inspector. If he's real nice he may issue you your
> repairman's certificate early.
>
> Mike Robertson
> RV-8A
> Das Fed
>
>
> >From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: "rv-list"
> >Subject: RV-List: Log Book Entries
> >Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:38:01 -0500
> >
> >
> >I would like to make some logbook entries but I have not yet applied for
my
> >repairman's certificate.
> >My questions are:
> >1) Can I make such entries?
> >2) How do sign the entries?
> >3) Have those with Bart's engine continued using the 81/2 by 11 engine
book
> >or have you started a smaller one?
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A Hartzell 0.0 hours
> >Hampshire, IL C38
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob DiMeo - Oracle <dimeob(at)powertel.com.au> |
Has anyone though of designing a step door to help with getting into the
rear? I'm thinking of something that would be a spring loaded door that
would carry the weight of a #250 person. I wonder what it would take to do?
I haven't got my fuselage yet but I would think we could do something that
would tie into a bulkhead. Is there one near enough the rear passenger areas
to serve as a support?
Bob
> ----------
> From: edperry64
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 12:51 PM
> To: RV List
> Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Vs. RV8a
>
>
> I am building a RV8 but just to be fair I thought I would tell you all
> about
> today. I am 6'2" 225# today I went for a ride in an RV8. My most recent
> experiences have been in RV8a's. I have never found it difficult to get
> in
> and out of either one but today I started thinking that it was much easier
> to exit the rear seat of the RV8A. The angle the RV8 sits at with the tall
> landing gear may make it difficult for someone less agile to get in and
> out...Just something to think about...
>
> Ed Perry
> edperry64(at)netzero.net
> RV8QB 180hp/CS
>
>
> Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence/twist |
08/24/2000 04:03:06 PM
See my post on the CESSNA concentrics..........It will save you a lot of
grief.......
Finn Lassen (at)matronics.com on 08/24/2000 02:36:07
PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing incidence/twist
Yes that is a problem. 1 degree comes out to .432 inches, so a bigger bolt
won't cut it.
The only solution I have is to fill the wing spar 1/4" hole with a 1/4"
long
piece of a 1/4" bolt and then drill the new hole. I have the beefed-up
version of the rear spar attach: 1/8 + 1/8 sandwiched between 1/8" and 1/8"
fuselage angle and bar. Of course I'll have to observe the 2x edge
clearance
from bottom edge to center of new hole. Problem is I'd probably have to
pull
the wing out a bit to get to the existing hole -- not something I'm looking
forward to. Thus I welcome all alternatives, be it squeezing/bumping the
ailerons, added aileron trim tabs, off-setting flaps and/or a combination
of
all. But 2.5 degrees of difference tip to other tip is quite a lot.
Finn
Bob Japundza wrote:
> How are you planning to readjust your incidence? You could use a larger
> hole/bolt, but MAKE SURE you have the proper edge distance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Demise of 100 LL |
> I am at least 2 years away from committing myself to an engine choice, but
> the current news about 100 LL fuel is making me nervous. Nobody seems
> certain as to the nature of future aviation fuel; I understand unleaded
> avgas isn't a reality (yet), nor are engines available designed to use it.
> Modifying existing engines may be prohibitively expensive, so a used
> engine could be more expensive in the long run. Automotive engines are a
> viable option, but there are pros and cons to them, too.
>
> I would be interested in thoughts from people who may have more data on
> this, and who may have figured out what steps to take.
The O-360 A1A that Van's sells is STCd to run on 91 octane unleaded
mogas (see the Petersen web site,
http://www.webworksltd.com/WebPub/PetersenAviation/PetersenAvi
ation.html ). I plan to start testing my RV-6A w/ O-360 A1A after my
next long cross country with the family. My search thru the archives
convinced me there's a very good chance I'll have no problems.
Tim
******
Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Demise of 100 LL |
I am definitely no expert on the subject, but have some time in airplanes
running mogas (car gas). There are many aircraft engines that can run fairly
well on mogas with little or no modification. Compression seems to be a major
factor, it needs to be fairly low for low octane fuels. There are some other
subtleties such as timing depending on who you talk to. I believe that it is
fairly easy to get a 150 hp O-320 to run on mogas, even legally in certified
aircraft with an STC. If you have a 160hp O-320 or a 180 hp O-360, you can
put lower compression pistons in it and run on car gas at the cost of about
10hp. New pistons, rings, and honing the cylinders will not cost THAT much,
especially compared to the cost of the engine, or even an overhaul. If you
converted during an overhaul, the conversion itself would prabably be almost
free.
A local airport where I fly a J4 and C-150's has only mogas (87 octane
Amaco). I have ridden in an RV-6 with 150hp that runs exclusively on mogas
and a 172 that has about 2600 hours since overhaul (hasn't been topped since
overhaul either) and runs mogas. Bob Barrows, the designer of the Bearhawk
builds "Lycomings" to order for experimentals and sells some for RV's. He has
a 170HP O-360 that runs mogas in his Bearhawk to save on fuel bills and he
probably knows more about these engines then most. He would probably be
happy to build you an O-320 or O-360 set up for mogas.
Higher performance engines will have a tougher time converting to mogas and
need to loose more compression and power to run on car gas, but for the
O-320's and O-360's used in RV's, I don't think converting is THAT big of a
deal. There are other issues such as vapor lock and possibly long term
durability but even without avgas, it is hard to beat a lycoming IMHO. do
not arcive
Greg King
RV-8 QB
Worried more about affording a Lycoming then fueling it. If anyone is
converting to a Ford to run car gas, let me know before you throw the
Lycoming away, I will save you the dumping costs:)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Buckling Load Calculations |
08/24/2000 01:13:23 PM
Good subject. Reposted & renamed for future e-searching
TNGUYEN(at)oss.oceaneering.com on 08/23/2000 11:19:38 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flap Pushrods
Just out of curiosity, I calculated the Pcr (buckling load) for the flap
pushrod using the following information:
Rod O.D = 0.3125" Wall Thickness = 0.058"
Assume the effective length (Hole to Hole distance - Le) = 6 inches
Using the Euler's method the Pcr can be calculated as follow:
Pcr = Pi
2*E*I/Le
2
With E (Young Modulus) = 10.7*10
6 psi for aluminum
I (Cross Sectional Moment Inertia) = 3.94953*10
-4
The Pcr is calculated to be 1,158 lbs for the Flap Pushrod. With a safety
factor of 2.0, this would bring the allowable load down to 579 lbs. This is
to show that Van's design on the flap push rod is a sound design and any
modifications to it would be unnecessary if you want to keep the weight
down. The tension load on the pushrod is very minimal (dead weight of the
flaps and hinge friction loads when you retract the flaps on ground. In
the air, it's all compressive load)
My two cents.
T.Nguyen
RV-6A
N747TN (reserved)
Finishing Instrument Panel then out to the hangar
>>> ewspears(at)peoplepc.com 08/22/00 10:42AM >>>
> F659A being the little bitty hunk of tubing that you make the flap
rod pushers out of.
> I also thought that Van's part left much to be desired.
>I haven't heard of many of them failing in service. They would >be most
>likely to fail while raising flaps while on the ground since they >are in
>compression when lowering and always when in the air.
I know of one failure on a 6A that was built locally. It caused a
"split
flap" on approach and could have been a real problem had the pilot not
immediately noticed it and retracted flaps.
Myself and several other builders here on Leeward Air Ranch are making
the tubes out of 4130 in the same dim. as called for in 6061-T6 (5/16 X
.058wall). This way we don't have to carve huge holes in the floor and skin
as would be neccessary for big dia. aluminum tube.
Esten Spears, RV8AQB, 80922, Fuse Floors & Flap Rods
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Johnson" <scottjohnson345(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | RV membership survey, Would you use this FREE website if it was |
made available ?
Hi fellow RVators,
I have been contemplating putting up a website that would do the following
and am wondering if enough of you would use it if it was FREE ! If I get a
big enough response, I might get motivated to do it.
1.) A member directory.
This would allow you to enter any of the following information that you
would care to share:
Name
City
State
Phone
Email
RV Model you are building, what parts are completed.
RV Model you are flying
Your RV equipment list and performance specifications.
Interior and exterior pictures of you plane ( or parts built ).
Your local airport location, and if you would be willing to help an RVer in
an emergency.
2.) Things To Do / Places To Eat / Sites to See
Local pilots could recommend these things so pilots traveling would know
where to go.
3.) Calendar of flying breakfests, get togethers etc by state / cities.
Note the major magazines do a good job here, but what they can't do is
schedule improptu events of Friday for the weekend.
Example: Chicago RVators decide to all fly to breakfest to meet the Iowa
RVators etc. Totally spur of the moment stuff etc.
4.) Publish newsletters from RV groups around the country who care to share
articles from them.
5.) Any other good ideas you might have ...
This entire website would be dynamic and database driven so you could search
for things in the states , cities, and times you are interested etc.
Send me an email if you would find such a website beneficial to you, and if
the response is good enough. I'll start my elves working on it.
Scott Johnson / Chicago N345RV RV6A 170TT Flying
RV8A Wings,
Tail Done, Fuselage in jig
scottjohnson345(at)home.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence/twist |
08/24/2000 01:39:33 PM
I've seen Cessna concentric bolt collars ( small round sleeves drilled off
center with a thin hex head) used in all cessna aircraft and some
experimentals. At the Cessna factory where 10 or 15 aircraft rolled off the
assembly line daily, the rear spar holes sometimes needed tweaking. By
simply rotating this concentric collar the rear allignment n the sparr
attach point(s) came into the desired angle. The bolt that ran thru this
collar was the pinch bolt or mount bolt. Elegant & simple. A set of these
collars kept a grown man from crying when he mis-drilled his rear spar
holes in his RV-6...........no it wasn't me...I got a RV-4.........
Finn Lassen (at)matronics.com on 08/23/2000 11:36:55
PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV-List: Wing incidence/twist
Well, I finally being forced to deal with a problem I've postponed.
Both my wings were built with twists in them (inadvertently, I'm sure),
the right wing more than the left.
For reasons best known to whatever I was thinking when I drilled the
rear spar attach holes last year, I set the incidence at both wings to 1
degree positive at their roots.
That means that the incidence of the outer left wing edge is 0 degrees
and 2 to 2.5 degrees (positive) at the outer right wing edge.
I'd half forgotten this, and didn't notice it again until I reached
higher speeds. At 185 mph I have to apply substantial right stick
pressure to keep wings level, and also left rudder to keep ball
centered.
The question of course is: what to do about it?
The easiest would be to add substantial aileron trim tab(s) -- just
squeezing the aileron trailing edge is not going to cut it.
I see two areas of concern:
1) added induced drag at higher speeds
2) right wing stalling first (which in retrospect is noticeable when
doing near full stall landings)
Should I change the right wing incidence so I have 1 degree at the wing
midpoint (and .25 at root and + 1.75 at tip) and handle the rest by
aileron trim?
I'll be happy to hear suggestions and reasonings for possible solutions.
(No, I'm not going to rebuild wings at this time.)
(Yes, that's the risk of buying a project started by someone else, when
you don't know what to look for).
For those concerned, I have kept my speed up at 80 mph or more in my
flight testing so far (except when just over the runway and touchdown).
I haven't done slow flight testing even at altitude yet. Everything
would seem to indicate that the right wing will drop like a rock at
stall speeds, and stall testing may quickly turn into either spin
testing or (spiral) dive testing.
Finn
Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sheared Wing Tips |
Chris Wilcox,
How much modifications to the wings (if any) are required to use the
sheared wing tips? How much shorter is the overall wing span with the
sheared wing tips verses the standard?
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6160hp(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | OSWEGO NY RV FORUM and FLY-IN |
6th Annual Northeast RV Forum
September 30 - October 1, 2000
Oswego County Airport Fulton NY
KFZY
Just a Quick note on the RV-List inviting people to the RV-Forum and
Fly-in.
Link our web site:
http://www.web-flight.com/486/eaarvforum.htm
<http://www.web-flight.com/486/eaarvforum.htm>
Not many pre-registered so far.
As in the past got lots of things planned.
Hope to see you there
Respectfully
David McManmon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Conical Engine Mounts |
08/24/2000 02:25:50 PM
Just called Lycoming tech service to get some data on the Conical mounts.
Lycoming part number 71032 ( 1 inch diameter) tapered rubbers at 7.70
$ (retail) apiece. 8 count needed for a mount set. According to the tech
rep (Mike) there were two types of conicals, but the majority 99% are the
P/N71032. Some list folks are speaking of 300$ sets of rubbers from Lord
????? Is there possible confusion between the conicals &
Dynafocals(mounts)...?????
Parker43rp(at)AOL.COM@matronics.com on 08/24/2000 12:54:24 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Conical Engine Mounts
I would call Lycoming and/or Lord to find out if ypu are in doubt.
Ray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ENewton57(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: RV membership survey, Would you use this FREE website if |
it was ...
In a message dated 8/24/00 10:45:03 PM Central Daylight Time,
scottjohnson345(at)home.com writes:
<< I have been contemplating putting up a website that would do the following
and am wondering if enough of you would use it if it was FREE ! If I get a
big enough response, I might get motivated to do it.
>>
Scott,
Have you checked out this: Van's Air Force - World Wide
Wing (aka 'The RV White Pages') It sounds very similar to what you have
in mind.
Eric Newton - Long Beach, Mississippi
RV-6A N57ME (Reserved) (wing skinning)
Eric's RV-6A
Construction Page
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wultrad turn coordinator |
> >I've had 2 gyros go out in the first year and neither was under warranty
> >(one was a no-brand chinese TC from Vans, the other an O/H vacum DG with
>
> Oh great!
>
> I have that same $300 TC in my instrument panel. Anyone else had problems
with
> this?
Mine is only one case so I wouldn't take it to mean they're all junk....
mainly wanted to make a point about the warranty.
But since you're concerned, I'll expand a bit -- the way it failed suggested
bad bearings, likely as a result of sitting on the shelf too long. Shelf
life is an issue with all gyros. I knew this and spun it up soon after I
purchased it and again once or twice before first flight, to make sure the
bearings didn't go dry, so I know it didn't sit for too long once it was in
my possesion. But before...? Who knows. It might have been gathering dust
for a while either at Vans or the importers. Never checked for a Mfg. date
but you should look for one, and also make sure it doesn't sit too long in
your shop.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~125 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV membership survey, Would you use this FREE website if |
it was ...
In a message dated 8/25/00 1:01:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ENewton57(at)AOL.COM writes:
> Have you checked out this: Van's Air Force - World Wide
> Wing (aka 'The RV White Pages') It sounds very similar to what you
have
> in mind.
>
Eric,
I read Scott's idea as a lot different. There is no info on the white pages
as to your willingness to help me if I am stranded in your neighborhood etc.
Bernie Kerr,6A, 50 hours of grin time, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Reeves, Doug" <Douglas.Reeves(at)archongroup.com> |
| Subject: | RV membership survey, Would you use this FREE websit |
e if it was ...
Hi Bernie,
Doug here (www.vansairforce.net). At least in my opinion, your comment is
perfectly addressed with a network of local eGroups - which are very easy
for anyone to create. One of their primary roles is to provide efficient,
timely access to local RV resources and activities (like a request for help
in your neighborhood). It doesn't replace the RV-List, there are topics
only the global nature of the RV-List can answer so efficiently, but for
local activities such as the one you describe, it's perfectly suited (in my
opinion). A few months ago I created a page tooting the benefits of a
network of dozens of local eGroups. If you'd care to see it, it's at
http://www.metronet.com/~dreeves/egroups.htm.
Of course, one of the best things about all of this is that everyone
benefits, and the work load is not shouldered on one person.
Kindest regards,
Doug
PS. If you'd like to join the DFW RV Builders eGroup for a bit and just
poke around to see what's there, please so so, we'd be happy to have to have
you join (if only for a bit). It's at
http://www.egroups.com/group/dfwrvbuilders.
A listing of the eGroups that are already out there can be found at
http://www.metronet.com/~dreeves/RV_egroups.htm.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rv660wm(at)AOL.COM [SMTP:Rv660wm(at)AOL.COM]
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 6:03 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV membership survey, Would you use this FREE
> website if it was ...
> I read Scott's idea as a lot different. There is no info on the white
> pages
> as to your willingness to help me if I am stranded in your neighborhood
> etc.
>
> Bernie Kerr,6A, 50 hours of grin time, SE Fla
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV membership survey, Would you use this FREE website if |
it
was ...
Bernie,
I'm listed in Doug's white pages. Part of the application form I filled out
related directly to that point. That is definitely part of Doug's site. I believe
that part of the site is only available to members. In other words, if you aren't
willing to join and offer to help others, the service isn't open to you. Which
is
as it should be.
Charlie Kuss
> Eric,
> I read Scott's idea as a lot different. There is no info on the white pages
> as to your willingness to help me if I am stranded in your neighborhood etc.
>
> Bernie Kerr,6A, 50 hours of grin time, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Demise of 100 LL |
>>Are Barstad wrote: "Pardon my ignorance, but are there any concrete facts
or news about this?"<<
See the July issue of Sport Aviation page 22. Earl Lawrence article titled:
"The End of 100LL".
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
Flaps
http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Waalkes" <waalkes(at)netnitco.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV membership survey, Would you use this FREE website if |
it was made available ?
I'm in!!
Bob Waalkes
RV-8 Waiting on Emp
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Johnson <scottjohnson345(at)home.com>
Date: Thursday, August 24, 2000 11:31 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV membership survey, Would you use this FREE website if
it was made available ?
>
>Hi fellow RVators,
>
>I have been contemplating putting up a website that would do the following
>and am wondering if enough of you would use it if it was FREE ! If I get a
>big enough response, I might get motivated to do it.
>
>1.) A member directory.
>
>This would allow you to enter any of the following information that you
>would care to share:
>Name
>City
>State
>Phone
>Email
>RV Model you are building, what parts are completed.
>RV Model you are flying
>Your RV equipment list and performance specifications.
>Interior and exterior pictures of you plane ( or parts built ).
>Your local airport location, and if you would be willing to help an RVer in
>an emergency.
>
>2.) Things To Do / Places To Eat / Sites to See
>Local pilots could recommend these things so pilots traveling would know
>where to go.
>
>3.) Calendar of flying breakfests, get togethers etc by state / cities.
>Note the major magazines do a good job here, but what they can't do is
>schedule improptu events of Friday for the weekend.
>Example: Chicago RVators decide to all fly to breakfest to meet the Iowa
>RVators etc. Totally spur of the moment stuff etc.
>
>4.) Publish newsletters from RV groups around the country who care to
share
>articles from them.
>
>5.) Any other good ideas you might have ...
>
>This entire website would be dynamic and database driven so you could
search
>for things in the states , cities, and times you are interested etc.
>
>Send me an email if you would find such a website beneficial to you, and if
>the response is good enough. I'll start my elves working on it.
>
>Scott Johnson / Chicago N345RV RV6A 170TT Flying
> RV8A Wings,
>Tail Done, Fuselage in jig
>
>scottjohnson345(at)home.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV membership survey, Would you use this FREE website if |
it was ...
Hi Scott,
Your future web site sounds GREAT! Count me in.
av8trqa(at)aol.com
RV 8 awaiting ordered tail kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Demise of 100 LL |
>
>Pardon my ignorance, but are there any concrete facts or news about this? I
>haven't heard this rumour before and it frankly worries me since I plan to
>buy a new IO-360 for my RV-8. Hopefully it won't become 'redundant' before I
>get it fired up the first time.
>
>This is only _my_ opinion, but I have always belived in Avgas for aviation
>engines and rather stay away from Mogas if I can help it. I can't see any
>reason why it might become unavailable unless it's due to environmental
>issus (lead).
There have been forums in the tents at OSH for several years
running on this issue. Yes, it's REAL . . . leaded fuel for
aircraft is a tiny, Tiny, TINY percentage of refiners output.
They don't want to make it any more. EPA in its infinite wisdom
(and infinite power) has decreed that, "Leaded fuels have to go."
It's just a matter of time and quite frankly, the "interested parties"
of government are going to be more of a hinderance than a help
with solutions . . . no matter what they may say.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Demise of 100 LL |
Anyone care to contact Gore's and Bush's campaigns and ask them pointendly
where they stand and put some "meat" on this topic?
Having lived in Tennessee for many years when Gore was one of our state
Senators (and listening to him speak live a couple of times at college) and
later working for NASA with Gore as VP and setting some of NASA's goals, I
can tell you I've heard and read enough about him to form an opinion that if
the 100LL was in threat for "environmental issues" up to this point then you
haven't seen nothing yet!that in my opinion is that he is on record with
with stating many "environmental
He's the same fella who as a Senator wanted the EPA to clamp down big time
on small engines such as lawn mowers and remote control airplanes and the
like. "Special interest groups" ie, folks like you and me, banded together
back then to get clarification from the EPA & get them to back off on such
small engines pollutant enforcement - for how long I don't know. One
example of the outcome of that era is that many boat engines as a result
have restrictions on them in many places to be only 4 cycle engines. That
was an easy environmental win and I'm would be for that too. Harder ones
like 100LL may be next.
Gore has quite a environmental track record. Bush is painted as oil
friendly but I have no idea what his Texas record really is. I do know Gore
and he scare's me when it comes to my hobbies/toys that are "known green
house causing, acid rain producing, ozone hole contributing pollutants".
>From: "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Demise of 100 LL
>Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:21:55 -0500
>
>
> >>Are Barstad wrote: "Pardon my ignorance, but are there any concrete
>facts
>or news about this?"<<
>
>See the July issue of Sport Aviation page 22. Earl Lawrence article titled:
>"The End of 100LL".
>
>Chris Heitman
>Dousman WI
>RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
>Flaps
>http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Demise of 100 LL |
>Dont worry about the gas problem here is why.
>Most all the info you hear is propoganda created by
>corporations whose sole intent is to line their
>pockets. Lets start with the basics here:
>The magnetos we use are obsolete, as they only vary
>the timing of the engine at start up I.E. impulse
>coupling. After engine start, the internal timing of
>the magneto is where you put it when you timed the
>engine. (say at 24 degrees before top dead center). In
>essence what you are doing is a compromise, and have
>set up your mags basically for best cruise, and
>anything before that. (say at idle) you are not giving
>the engine it's best btdc(before top dead center)
>spark.
According to all the engine gurus I've spoken with,
mag timing is set up for worst case, hot day, max
manifold pressure conditions with another degree
or two retard thrown in for good measure. The selection
of 25 degrees BTDC is not even close to optimium
for cruise . . . and as manifold pressures and
OAT goes down, the magneto timing becomes still less
optimal . .
>so you are wasting fuel at climb power and at
>idle.(even though we use the extra fuel for cooling)
>Now, lets say you take the pump gas of 92 octane, with
>no lead i.e. unleaded and, using a magneto, you may
>have to retard the timing so the engine will not
>detonate. But this is a thing that can be done.
>However using car gas, we have another problem and
>that is vapor lock. But then again the only time this
>comes into play is when the engine is hot and been
>sitting around on the ground (after running). after
>the engine starts this problem will go away.
"Vaporlock" has been the boogyman of fuel
discussions for years when folks started talking
about autogas . . . seems that somebody started
a rumor that people who drove automobiles were
more tolerant of the notion that their fuel system
might vaporlock than airplane drivers were. Hence,
refiners had free reign to formulate their fuels
in the easiest/cheapest formulations and consumer
be damned.
In truth, I know folks who were running autogas in
their aircraft long before it became a gleam in
Poberezny's eye . . . one pilot was my next door
neighbor who worked for the Derby Oil Company
here in Wichita. Seems he KNEW that refiners worked
pretty hard to control vapor-pressure on their
formulations even to the extent of tweaking the
mix for local conditions of altitude and ambient
temperatures. While the rest of us were pouring\
100LL into our machines, he'd been using premium
mogas in his C-170 for over 10 years.
When mogas first became "acceptable", there were
lots of ads in the journals for vapor pressure
testers. We had one at the airport I owned. Tried
it once out of curiosity . . . you put a fuel sample
in, screw on the cap, shake to bring fuel up to
ambient temp and saturated vaporspace and read the
gage . . . it rose to less than 1/2 the allowable
pressure value deemed suitable for use in our
airplanes. Never messed with it again after that.
>Now the
>miracle comes along that has brought lycoming up to
>the jet age and that is FADEC. the mags, mixture
>control, carb heat and carb are thrown away saving you
>around 15 to twenty pounds. (the engine is now
>injected like a modern day automobile). Where the mags
>were is now two solid state units that advance and
>retard your timing at all engine speeds. The fadec
>monitors each individual cylinder so each cylinder is
>matched to it's own operating environment. Which leans
>them in all flight regimes just to the rich side of
>detonation regardless of the fuel octane. The price of
>this great unit is about 5 grand. So it is at this
>time to tell you that 100 low lead will be here for
>some time to come and untill they decide to come up
>with some other alternative remember there are more
>than two ways to skin a cat. And in a couple of years
>I am sure the fadec will come down in price as well.
Retarding timing may be an effective measure to
ward off detonation but it CANNOT compensate for
energy lost because the fuel is ignited too late
in the combustion cycle and is still burning
when the exhaust valves open.
Further, the pressures AGAINST 100LL are not coming
from the aviation community. War is being waged by
EPA who has the great charter from on high to make
the world a utopian place to live. If the bureaucrats
can claim to have save a dozen lives from the ravages
of cancer, a stroke of the pen is all it takes to
"fix" yet one more of life's evils. The fact that
a FEW congresspersons have pilots licenses is all
that keeps the 100LL taps open. The rest of our
great protectors in Washington don't give a rip if
your airplane ever leaves the ground again.
Refiners have to go to a LOT of trouble to cook
up a batch of 100LL. It has to be handled in specially
cleaned plumbing, tankage and trucks. While they
can justifiably charge more for this special fuel,
not a one would shed a tear if they never made
another gallon . . . there's more profit to be
made in juicing up Hondas than Cessnas . . . Even
the FBO's would be happy to see the stuff go. They
pump far more gallons of kerosene than 100LL and
they too have to maintain special handling and
storage equipment . . they'd also be free of
risk from misfueling accidents . . .their liability
insurance rates would probably go down.
If I were starting an airplane project today, I'd
be planning for some form of mogas or jet-a propulsion.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
Has anyone had trouble with RC Allen electric gyros?
I have their horz & DG., or should I say they have had
the Horz more then I have.
They are very helpful when I call and have me send it in
and 2 or 3 weeks later they send it back. But it tumbles
as soon as I taxi. I have sent it in at least 5 times, I
have lost count, at no other cost than shipping it to them.
I have inquired about installation problem that could be
my fault, but have not found any our conversations.
The DG worked fine for almost 50 hrs., but it now precesses
after about 5 min.
Did I get the seconds or is the units?
Have a wonderful Day!
Denny Harjehausen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Eastburn <jime(at)ci.hillsboro.or.us> |
| Subject: | wing/emp-8 for sale |
for sale -8 wing kit and emp for sale. no tools reply off list. Jim E..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com |
| Subject: | Sensenich props on 150/170 hp engines? |
5.0.3 (Intl)|21 March 2000) at 08/25/2000 10:00:16 AM
Along the same thread as the Avgas availability question, I'm wondering if
I get a 150 hp O-320 or a 170 hp O-360 does anyone know if I can use one of
the fixed pitch metal Sensenich props? Two things come to mind.....one is
that the pitch may not be right for the 10 hp loss......the other is that
by installing low compression pistons you may be changing the
dynamics/harmonics of the engine and running into unknowns with the
acceptable rpm range (like the O-320's rpm limitation).
Does anyone know if Sensenich tested and approves the low compression mods
on their props?
Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, IA
RV-8A wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AV8TURDON(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: OSWEGO NY RV FORUM and FLY-IN |
Count me in For the forum weather permitting.
I'll be flying in from New Hampshire (Nashua) ASH and have an RV-6, O-360,
C/S, IFR, N767DC I may also give rides depending on the demand.
Don Champagne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fran Malczynski" <ebafm(at)yahoo.com> |
Listers
I have nothing but the highest regard for Van's service. Having worked in
the service industry for the past 33+ years and having delivered service and
managed people who delivered what I thought was pretty good service I am
very sensitive to service issues.
With Van's my issues are always taken care of promptly and efficiently.
Have I received wrong parts in the past?. Sure I have, but re-delivery and
credit adjustments were prompt and correct.
Even when a part was not accurately defined in the plans as left or right,
Van's sent me both parts and said pick the one you want and send back the
other. When I screwed up and ordered W-xxx instead of Wd-xxx, no problem,
"We'll ship you the correct ones right away, ship the wrong ones back when
you can."
I recently sent in a large order for baffles, engine mounting parts, exhaust
system, instruments, hardware, electrical components and other miscellaneous
items. Some items were backordered, but when they were available they were
promptly shipped even though all backordered items were not available.
A request for a bill of sale via E-mail was promptly replied to in a note
saying it was in the mail.
With my dealings with Van's or any other supplier I have to do my part. I
try to order in advance so that I am not held up waiting for parts and in
the event that there is a backorder it usually arrives by the time I'm ready
for it.
All in all I'm very pleased with the level of service that Van's delivers
and thats why I continue to do most of my RV related business with them.
Fran Malczynski
Olcott, NY
RV6, 0360-A1A, planning on Performance Propeller prop
Working on finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wultrad turn coordinator |
For those of you who care, I bought a vertical compass from wultrad, and had
to return it. We are still (after almost 2 months) trying to get our money
back. Amy, the lady who runs Wultrad, told me that there is NO warranty on
their products, and that she was helping me (?????) just to be nice. Please,
do not be nice to me.
Ed Storo RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Demise of 100 LL |
Mike Nellis wrote:
>
>
> Or Diesel
>
> > If I were starting an airplane project today, I'd
> > be planning for some form of mogas or jet-a propulsion.
> >
> >
> > Bob . . .
As Bob is well aware, the diesels now being developed run on Jet-A; I
saw one of them running at OSH.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich props on 150/170 hp engines? |
>
> Along the same thread as the Avgas availability question, I'm wondering if
> I get a 150 hp O-320 or a 170 hp O-360 does anyone know if I can use one of
> the fixed pitch metal Sensenich props? Two things come to mind.....one is
> that the pitch may not be right for the 10 hp loss......the other is that
> by installing low compression pistons you may be changing the
> dynamics/harmonics of the engine and running into unknowns with the
> acceptable rpm range (like the O-320's rpm limitation).
>
> Does anyone know if Sensenich tested and approves the low compression mods
> on their props?
>
No problems with the Sensenich props. The only difference in the
recommended prop for the 150 vs 160 is two inches of pitch. This info is
available from Sensenich and is also in the Van's catalog.
I suspect a similar situation would exist for the derated 180 hp.
I started with a 150hp O-320 which is now 160hp due to higher
compression. The prop hasn't been changed, just means I now have a climb
prop.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6 that climbs very nicely)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karl Schilling" <k_schilling(at)iquest.net> |
Right on!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Demise of 100 LL |
>> If I were starting an airplane project today, I'd
>> be planning for some form of mogas or jet-a propulsion.
>>
>
>Or Diesel
>
Most of the diesel designs I've heard of are planning
on using Jet-A . . . which is a good move. The last
thing airports need is yet ANOTHER fuel handling system
and more chance for mis-fueling accidents.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Reeves, Doug" <Douglas.Reeves(at)archongroup.com> |
| Subject: | RV membership survey, Would you use this FREE websit |
e if it was made available ?
Hey, Scott. Bernie Kerr sent me an email with this text...
"Some time ago, there was an attempt to talk about helping transient
pilots with everything from local knowledge to hospitality overnights. "
...and it got me to thinking. I think a wonderful RV web niche you could
carve out for yourself that would benefit the global RV community immensely
would be a database-driven site listing those RV builders/flyers who are
willing to provide their home for, what Bernie called them, "hospitality
overnights". I seem to remember talk of this also several years back and
thought at the time of what a great idea that was. I opted to gather phone
numbers on my site instead as it wasn't being done yet on a global scale and
I surmised it should be done first.
As an example:
Being so far from 'tropical water' here in Texas, I have a huge desire to
visit the Bahamas when I'm finally flying, and I think being able to find
two or three RV households in South Florida where I could overnight for free
as a 'stepping off point' would make travelling so much more interesting
(not to mention more affordable). Also, people willing to let RV folk
stay over for the night during a trip might (when they send in their
information) provide some of the local highlights (places to see, places to
eat - those things that only someone intimately familiar with the area would
be privy to).
Just off the top of my shallow head, I can see fields like:
* Contact Name:______________________________
* Contact info: (email, house phone, cell phone)________________
* Address:___________________ (maybe linked to MapQuest so if there
are multiple places to stay in one city, you could pick the one closest to
your ultimate destination)
* My car/truck/van can carry ________ people.
* I have room for __________ people to stay with me.
* House or apartment?_____________________________________
* Spare bedroom or sleeping on couch?_______________________
* Smoking household? (Y/N)______
* Pets? (for those who might be allergic)________________
* Distance to nearest G/A airport?_________ Which airport?_______
* Willing to pick me up at airport or should I take a cab? (Y/N)_____
* Neat things to visit in this
area______________________________________
I believe this new 'Travel Pages' idea would mesh very well with Gary
VanRemortel's 'Yeller Pages' and my 'White Pages' while adding value to the
global RV community as a whole. I know this networking thing works.
Because of the White Pages I started, I regularly communicate with people in
England, Australia, Canada, and all over the USA. I didn't do that three
years ago. At all.
I can see hundreds of RV people meeting new friends that wouldn't normally
meet.
Well, anyway, just my two cents.
Kindest regards,
Doug
www.vansairforce.net
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Johnson [SMTP:scottjohnson345(at)home.com]
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 10:41 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: RV membership survey, Would you use this FREE
> website if it was made available ?
>
>
> 5.) Any other good ideas you might have ...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Layover list suggestion |
Orlando isn't southern Florida , but by air it's pretty close. Any RVers
needing a stop over here are always welcome. I think that is true pretty
much everywhere. I went to Memphis and Steve the Panel Pilot not only
helped me out, but chauffered me all over town, showed me the sights, took
me to a local eaa meeting, stopped by some RV projects and flying
examples...all without my even asking. I think it's common if people post
on this list that they are going to a certain place that someone in that
place will offer some form of assistance. If they have an extra room as I
do, perhaps they will even offer that up. This List is an invaluable
resource in that respect. A website with people offering would be even more
valuable. I am in the white pages as well...but I'm not sure that people
would be bold enough to just outright ask.
Bill
-4 wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reeves, Doug" <Douglas.Reeves(at)archongroup.com>
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 2:42 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV membership survey, Would you use this FREE websit e
if it was made available ?
>
> Hey, Scott. Bernie Kerr sent me an email with this text...
>
> "Some time ago, there was an attempt to talk about helping
transient
> pilots with everything from local knowledge to hospitality overnights. "
>
> ...and it got me to thinking. I think a wonderful RV web niche you could
> carve out for yourself that would benefit the global RV community
immensely
> would be a database-driven site listing those RV builders/flyers who are
> willing to provide their home for, what Bernie called them, "hospitality
> overnights". I seem to remember talk of this also several years back and
> thought at the time of what a great idea that was. I opted to gather
phone
> numbers on my site instead as it wasn't being done yet on a global scale
and
> I surmised it should be done first.
>
> As an example:
> Being so far from 'tropical water' here in Texas, I have a huge desire to
> visit the Bahamas when I'm finally flying, and I think being able to find
> two or three RV households in South Florida where I could overnight for
free
> as a 'stepping off point' would make travelling so much more interesting
> (not to mention more affordable). Also, people willing to let RV folk
> stay over for the night during a trip might (when they send in their
> information) provide some of the local highlights (places to see, places
to
> eat - those things that only someone intimately familiar with the area
would
> be privy to).
>
> Just off the top of my shallow head, I can see fields like:
> * Contact Name:______________________________
> * Contact info: (email, house phone, cell phone)________________
> * Address:___________________ (maybe linked to MapQuest so if there
> are multiple places to stay in one city, you could pick the one closest to
> your ultimate destination)
> * My car/truck/van can carry ________ people.
> * I have room for __________ people to stay with me.
> * House or apartment?_____________________________________
> * Spare bedroom or sleeping on couch?_______________________
> * Smoking household? (Y/N)______
> * Pets? (for those who might be allergic)________________
> * Distance to nearest G/A airport?_________ Which airport?_______
> * Willing to pick me up at airport or should I take a cab?
(Y/N)_____
> * Neat things to visit in this
> area______________________________________
>
> I believe this new 'Travel Pages' idea would mesh very well with Gary
> VanRemortel's 'Yeller Pages' and my 'White Pages' while adding value to
the
> global RV community as a whole. I know this networking thing works.
> Because of the White Pages I started, I regularly communicate with people
in
> England, Australia, Canada, and all over the USA. I didn't do that three
> years ago. At all.
>
> I can see hundreds of RV people meeting new friends that wouldn't normally
> meet.
>
> Well, anyway, just my two cents.
>
> Kindest regards,
>
> Doug
> www.vansairforce.net
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scott Johnson [SMTP:scottjohnson345(at)home.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 10:41 PM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: RV membership survey, Would you use this FREE
> > website if it was made available ?
> >
> >
> > 5.) Any other good ideas you might have ...
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: wultrad turn coordinator |
In a message dated 8/25/00 1:51:36 AM Central Daylight Time,
randallh(at)home.com writes:
<< the way it failed suggested
bad bearings, likely as a result of sitting on the shelf too long. Shelf
life is an issue with all gyros. I knew this and spun it up soon after I
purchased it and again once or twice before first flight, to make sure the
bearings didn't go dry, >>
Kelley Instruments recommends spinning the gyros for 10 minutes every 30 days.
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
Listers:
In my RV-6, some of the rivets that attach the stiffeners to the
forward belly pan have loosened. This problem is well documented in
archives under "smoking rivets"; several methods of repair are
discussed.
I am looking for input from people who have had a smoking rivet
problem and fixed it.
1. What method of repair did you use?
2. Would you use the same method again?
3. Have you had subsequent problems?
4. How many hours have you flown since completing the repair?
Any input would be appreciated.
Mark Nielsen
RV-6; 583 hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wultrad turn coordinator |
>
> Kelley Instruments recommends spinning the gyros for 10 minutes every 30 days.
> Dale Ensing
>
A good reason to fly 3 to 4 days each and every week. I spin the gyros
to the left and then the right, then to .... Also if you do 4 rolls to
the left then you need to untwist the gyros and do 4 rolls to the right.
--
Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado
RV-6A N99PZ Flying
Engine: Aerosport Power O-360-A1A with H2AD Pistons
Prop: Sensenich 72FM8S9-1-83
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Parker43rp(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Conical Engine Mounts |
Listers-- There is a lot of info on this subject in the archives under the
heading .
The Lord 6230-1 mounts are for the conical mount Lycomings. These are not
the dynafocal mounts, although they are metal-rubber bonded and have a
internal metal spacer. They are of unique design as the metal spacer is
eccentric and of special shape. The four pairs of mounts are specially
orienrted. Van's mount is drilled with a locator hole that matches a locator
hole in the Lord mount.
Some Citabrias, Decathlons, PA23's, and Mooney 20's use this mount.
It worked great for me.
Ray
RV-6 N84RP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BSEckstein(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | Fresh air respirator |
It is mentioned in the archives that there was a do-it-yourself fresh
air/respirator system featured in one of the EAA publications a while back.
Would anyone happen to have it and a scanner and send me a scan of it?
Thanks in advance,
Brian Eckstein
bseckstein(at)cs.com
(getting ready to paint)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-8 aft seat floor question |
I am installing F-830PP and F-831PP, the left and right aft seat floors. I
am trying to determine if the aft edge of the seat floor goes underneath or
above the F807 bulkhead flange. I can't tell definitively from the drawing,
but I probably haven't found the appropriate detail. It seems to fit
slightly better underneath, but thought that I would get a second opinion
before I drilled.
Could somebody please enlighten me.
Thanks,
Greg King
RV-8 QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Demise of 100 LL |
Andy,
I agree with you... but you better get your nomex britches on quick!
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Fresh air respirator |
In a message dated 8/25/00 8:25:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
BSEckstein(at)cs.com writes:
<< It is mentioned in the archives that there was a do-it-yourself fresh
air/respirator system featured in one of the EAA publications a while back.
Would anyone happen to have it and a scanner and send me a scan of it?
Thanks in advance,
Brian Eckstein
bseckstein(at)cs.com >>
Try this site: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2951/air_supply.html
It has the basic concept down well, but the one they built is a lot more work
than you really need.
On mine, I simply took a 100 CFM bathroom fan, wired it to a three prong
plug, and fiberglassed an adapter between the fan outlet and a 2" (?)
diameter length of flexible hose. I used hose clamps to attach the hose to
the adapter, then built a head shroud out of a grinding face shield, the hood
off of a cheap poncho, a few pop rivets and a little duct tape. I use
tear-off clear panels to keep the face shield from getting painted.
The most difficult part (for me at least) was terminating the hose inside the
headgear. In the end, I took a 8' length of the hose, ran it up the back of
my shirt and into the headgear, then wrapped it around my waist where I zip
tied it to my belt loops. I put a connector on the end of this hose, so I
could attach/detach the hose coming from the fresh air blower.
The worst part is getting into/out of the headgear.... It takes a couple of
seconds to disconnect from the fresh air supply (where is that
screwdriver??), then another couple of minutes to entirely shed the
hose/hood..
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
To the Airport by Labor Day!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 aft seat floor question |
Greg,
It really does not matter.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
>From: Grking3(at)AOL.COM
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: RV-8 aft seat floor question
>Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:08:10 EDT
>
>
>I am installing F-830PP and F-831PP, the left and right aft seat floors. I
>am trying to determine if the aft edge of the seat floor goes underneath or
>above the F807 bulkhead flange. I can't tell definitively from the
>drawing,
>but I probably haven't found the appropriate detail. It seems to fit
>slightly better underneath, but thought that I would get a second opinion
>before I drilled.
>Could somebody please enlighten me.
>
>Thanks,
>Greg King
>RV-8 QB
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
I looked in the archive but couldn't find a definative answer on the first
question.
1) Have any RV-4 builders bought a High Country Exhaust from Larry V.
lately? How much is he asking? How does it rate against the units that
Aircraft Spruce sells?
2) I was looking at my drawings today and noticed the drawing for F-469
which is listed as being a cover. I cannot for the life of me find out
where this thing is used. Please, a clue for the clueless?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 aft seat floor question |
It goes on top. I had to put shims on the left and right rear corners to
raise the floor. Seems to be a problem with a lot of QBs
Mike Robbins
RV8Q cutting the #@$ canopy (up to about 12 cuts now)
Seattle area
----- Original Message -----
From: <Grking3(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 5:08 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 aft seat floor question
>
> I am installing F-830PP and F-831PP, the left and right aft seat floors.
I
> am trying to determine if the aft edge of the seat floor goes underneath
or
> above the F807 bulkhead flange. I can't tell definitively from the
drawing,
> but I probably haven't found the appropriate detail. It seems to fit
> slightly better underneath, but thought that I would get a second opinion
> before I drilled.
> Could somebody please enlighten me.
>
> Thanks,
> Greg King
> RV-8 QB
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hurlbut" <shurlbut(at)island.net> |
What value do you torque the AN3-5 bolts to that attach the HS411 to the
horizontal stab rear spar?
How does one read the torque chart in the Van's construction manual?
Steve Hurlbut
shurlbut(at)island.net
RV-6 emp
C-FSND
Comox, BC, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lothar klingmuller" <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV membership survey, Would you use this FREE websit |
e if it was made available ?
Doug, Kevin of Oregon has started on this idea about a year ago and also has
puplished (by request only) a list. You may want to check with him. I have
not seen him on the RV-list recently (probably flying rather than
building). His e-mail is: N3773(at)mciwolrd.com . If he is still active with
his compilation it would be a good idea to combine efforts.
A couple of comments:
Our e-mail addresses and other data should not be made public. (NO list for
junk mailers, etc). Sometyhing along the lines of a "membership only" list.
We usally do not carry computers when we are flying. So one would have to
create a costumized list at home prior to departure and have this on board.
when starting on a trip. Thus, the list should be sortable by region/state
etc.
I for just can't wait to get my bird to be into the air and fly places
rather than to fly to local (within 100 ml of future home base) breakfest
fly-ins,
Lothar in Denver area|| 6A|| starting on wiring
-----Original Message-----
From: Reeves, Doug <Douglas.Reeves(at)archongroup.com>
Date: Friday, August 25, 2000 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV membership survey, Would you use this FREE websit e
if it was made available ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-8 aft seat floor question |
<>
They go on top of the F-807 flange. Then the rear baggage floor in turn goes
on top of the 830/831.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, cowling
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | OSWEGO NY RV FORUM and FLY-IN |
Count me in For the forum weather permitting.
I'll be flying in from New Hampshire (Nashua) ASH and have an RV-6, O-360,
C/S, IFR, N767DC I may also give rides depending on the demand.
Don Champagne
ok... I'll be flying in from Niagara Falls for both days and I demand that
you give me a ride....uh how's that???
Please don't archive my feeble attempt at humor....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence/twist |
Finn,
Maybe I don't correctly understand what you mean but filling the hole does
not strengthen anything.
> The only solution I have is to fill the wing spar 1/4" hole with a 1/4"
long
> piece of a 1/4" bolt and then drill the new hole.
The airplane needs some redesign here. My QB came with built in forward
sweep on one wing which was difficult to adjust for. I suspect many have
non-zero sweep or incidence just left uncorrected.
The bars on the wing and fuselage could be wider at the ends allowing
adjustment for incidence and longer to allow for sweep adjustment.
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK calling the gas truck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
| Subject: | Demise of 100 LL |
If 100LL goes away,in my case I will change to a lower compression
piston.Does anyone know which compression ratio would be right for amoco
super premium unleaded?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wultrad turn coordinator |
I have two Wultrad products (VSI & Turn Coordinator). Since this thread
came up, I have been nervous about how these instruments are going to
perform.
I didn't immediately realize that Falcon Gauge and Wultrad were the same
company until I looked at the labels on the intrument. That didn't help
instill my confidence in them either. Did anyone else notice where the
label says Wultrad Industries USA is located. It says Libertyrille
(really Libertyville), Illinois. Its this type of lack of attention to
detail that makes me nervous. You figured they could of at least had
someone check their labels for typographical errors. Hopefully the
label isn't an indication of the type of quality that is inside the
instrument.
-Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence/twist |
Ed,
You wrote about the rear spar fuselage attach points:
> This is one of the most critical points on the airframe from a safety
> standpoint, and most of the spar failures that have occurred were linked
to
> a problem with that area.
I agree that this is not an area to be taken lightly but I question the
belief that failures were the result of problems in this area. I saw
somewhere that this was believed to be the case back when there was just one
wing bar and one fuselage bar, putting the bolt in single shear. Van then
doubled the bars. Later it was learned that failure here was a result of
other failure and not the cause.
I do agree that it is not a good place for eyeball engineering.
Maybe someone will explain to me why the rear spar on each wing doesn't
stick out like the frontspar and join in the middle of the fuselage. It
would need the same amount of material.
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
Exaust system from Larry is the best. I've got one,I also had another
make which I took off. Larry is a first class guy and you will like
dealing with him.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fresh air respirator |
KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM wrote:
> off of a cheap poncho, a few pop rivets and a little duct tape. I use
> tear-off clear panels to keep the face shield from getting painted.
What are tear-off clear panels, and where do you get them?
Finn
Why pay for something you could get for free?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [rv8list] Vents |
Scott...
I think those little aluminum ones that people have been getting will work,
take a look at this picture:
http://www.egroups.com/files/rv8list/Jim+Grubbs%27+RV-8/jim_grubbs11.jpg
On that same note, for those of you that have installed the little aluminum
vents, do you still have your plastic ones that came with your kit? If so,
please contact me, I could use a couple more!
Thanks...
-Bill VonDane, Colorado
RV-8A, N8VD, Tanks
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 6:36 AM
Subject: [rv8list] Vents
I am considering putting heat to the rear seat. Can anyone with experience
tell if it really necesary? I live in upstate NY and plan on flying year
round. I suspect on a sunny day there will be no problem but how about
flying under an overcast on a cold day?
Does anyone know where I can get a vent that will accept a 1" or 1 1/4"
scat tube? Can't find one in any catalog.
Scott A. Jordan
80331 / N733JJ
Airflow performance injection & other engine stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KAKlewin(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Mounting below Baggage Compartment Floors |
Fellow listers,
Im looking to mount my strobe power supply below the baggage compartment
floor. My question is how others have mounted other items in this area. I
can rivit a bunch of angle together and rivit it to the stiffeners somehow,
but I wanted to bounce this idea off of you: Im thinking I might just rivit
2 pieces of 3/4 in angle together, making an "s" type shape to which I could
attach the power supply. The 3/4 in angle I could then mount to the skin on
the floor with flush rivits from the bottom. I would also add an additional
piece of alum. to the floor (minimum size required) to strengthen the floor.
The rivits would then go through (from the bottom) the lower skin,
re-inforcing skin, then the angle. The power supply would then be mounted
about 3/4 in above the floor and would have clearance on the top for the
bagg. floor. My main concern is mounting something to the lower skin, even
with some alum. behind it for strength. I guess I really dont see too much
stress being put on it since it fills in the gap between the stiffeners and
really isnt "out on its own somewhere". Any ideas ....???
Kurt, OKC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Torque AN3-5 |
>
>What value do you torque the AN3-5 bolts to that attach the HS411 to the
>horizontal stab rear spar?
>How does one read the torque chart in the Van's construction manual?
>
>Steve Hurlbut
>shurlbut(at)island.net
>RV-6 emp
>C-FSND
>Comox, BC, Canada
>
According to "ASA Aviation Mechanics Handbook" by Dale Crane, fine
thread AN3 bolts with tension nuts should be torqued to 20 to 25
IN/LBS for Standard AN and MS. If you had High Strength MS and NAS
fine thread bolts with tension nuts you would torque to 25 to 30
IN/LBS.
That's Inch not Foot!!! Twelve in/lbs equals one foot/pound.
Bear in mind that you first have to take into account the torque
needed to overcome the fiber/plastic insert in the nut.
I'd highly recommend you purchase this or any similiar book. It's
invaluable in building an RV.
The book cost $13.00 about 8 years ago.
BTW, are you any relation to Hurlbut's in Seattle? I work with a
woman whose husbands (and hers, too) last name is Hurlbut.
John Ammeter
1975 Jensen Healey
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
EAA Technical Counselor
NRA Life Member
Council Member, Snohomish Indian Tribe
http://members.home.net/ammeterj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Armstrong" <armstrong(at)coastside.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Antennae in the wingtips |
I just purchased the Bob Archer antennas. They arrived two days after I
ordered them by express mail. They are four strips of aluminum riveted
together in the shape shown on the web page. They are about 18 inches long.
I think there is plenty of room for them and the lights. I plan to mount
mine forward of the main spar. I am thinking of either putting oxygen
bottles or storage lockers in the tips between the spars.
George Armstrong
RV6A -wings
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles E. Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:04 AM
Subject: RV-List: Antennae in the wingtips
>
> With reference to the VOR antennae in the wingtips, will they fit if one
> already has the RMD lights in the wingtip.
>
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A QB, On the gear
> San Antonio, TX
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fresh air respirator |
KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 8/25/00 8:25:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> BSEckstein(at)cs.com writes:
>
> << It is mentioned in the archives that there was a do-it-yourself fresh
> air/respirator system featured in one of the EAA publications a while back.
> Would anyone happen to have it and a scanner and send me a scan of it?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Brian Eckstein
> bseckstein(at)cs.com >>
>
> Try this site: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2951/air_supply.html
>
> It has the basic concept down well, but the one they built is a lot more work
> than you really need.
>
> On mine, I simply took a 100 CFM bathroom fan, wired it to a three prong
> plug, and fiberglassed an adapter between the fan outlet and a 2" (?)
> diameter length of flexible hose. I used hose clamps to attach the hose to
> the adapter, then built a head shroud out of a grinding face shield, the hood
> off of a cheap poncho, a few pop rivets and a little duct tape. I use
> tear-off clear panels to keep the face shield from getting painted.
>
> The most difficult part (for me at least) was terminating the hose inside the
> headgear. In the end, I took a 8' length of the hose, ran it up the back of
> my shirt and into the headgear, then wrapped it around my waist where I zip
> tied it to my belt loops. I put a connector on the end of this hose, so I
> could attach/detach the hose coming from the fresh air blower.
>
> The worst part is getting into/out of the headgear.... It takes a couple of
> seconds to disconnect from the fresh air supply (where is that
> screwdriver??), then another couple of minutes to entirely shed the
> hose/hood..
Good advice.
The ready-made respirator I used had a regular piece of air hose going
to the hood with a conventional disconnect. I used a small oil-less
compressor to pressurize the hood.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: wultrad turn coordinator |
> << the way it failed suggested
> bad bearings, likely as a result of sitting on the shelf too long. Shelf
> life is an issue with all gyros. I knew this and spun it up soon after I
> purchased it and again once or twice before first flight, to make sure
the
> bearings didn't go dry, >>
>
> Kelley Instruments recommends spinning the gyros for 10 minutes every 30
days.
> Dale Ensing
So does The Gyro House.
Norman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ENewton57(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting below Baggage Compartment Floors |
In a message dated 8/26/00 11:43:05 AM Central Daylight Time,
KAKlewin(at)AOL.COM writes:
<< Im looking to mount my strobe power supply below the baggage compartment
floor. My question is how others have mounted other items in this area. >>
Hi Kurt,
Fellow builder Michael Stewart has a nice strobe install picture on his web
site. Go to the page listed here to see it:
http://www.mstewart.net/michael/rv/rvhome.htm
It's in the "Systems" section under strobes and lights.
Eric Newton - Long beach, MS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barrys <barrys(at)viconet.com> |
I just received my rv9a tail, and I promised myself that I would build
the whole plane
without asking Van's or 'the LIST' any questions. Oh well, so much for
that pipe dream.
I have a 2 1/2 car garage that is almost cleaned up. I am condemplating
building some
work benches and tables.
I have Avery's big C shaped spring back dimpler and I know that some of
you build a special table for that, by itself.
Could someone fill me in on the number, type and measurements they went
with on bench lengths, widths and most important , heights. I'm 5' 10".
Barry Pote
rv9a N666BP reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Booze <macbooze(at)ior.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealing -8 tanks |
A heads up for those -8 builders about to seal their tanks.
The Orndorff tapes address the situation of having to install pop rivets (MK-319)
in a few places where
riveting the root rib to the tank skin may interfere with the T-405 (fabricated
tank attach angle).
Insert the pop rivet before sealing and check to see that the T-405 does not interfere
with the pop
rivet. I had to trim the T-405 just a bit to make sure the pop rivet went into
the hole without hitting
the T-405.
Greg (-8)
finishing sealing tanks
Rathdrum, ID.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wultrad turn coordinator |
Glen,
The Wultrad/Falcon products are made in China (not Taiwan). You may draw your
own conclusions from that.
Rd Storo RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hurlbut" <shurlbut(at)island.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque AN3-5 |
In reading Van's torque table. I see the AN3 column and the AN365 nut
column. From there what are the Nut-bolt size numbers. What does 8-36 mean?
10-32? 1/4 - 28? etc.....
I know the AN3-5 bolt is 3/16.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)home.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Torque AN3-5
>
>
> >
> >What value do you torque the AN3-5 bolts to that attach the HS411 to the
> >horizontal stab rear spar?
> >How does one read the torque chart in the Van's construction manual?
> >
> >Steve Hurlbut
> >shurlbut(at)island.net
> >RV-6 emp
> >C-FSND
> >Comox, BC, Canada
> >
>
> According to "ASA Aviation Mechanics Handbook" by Dale Crane, fine
> thread AN3 bolts with tension nuts should be torqued to 20 to 25
> IN/LBS for Standard AN and MS. If you had High Strength MS and NAS
> fine thread bolts with tension nuts you would torque to 25 to 30
> IN/LBS.
>
> That's Inch not Foot!!! Twelve in/lbs equals one foot/pound.
>
> Bear in mind that you first have to take into account the torque
> needed to overcome the fiber/plastic insert in the nut.
>
> I'd highly recommend you purchase this or any similiar book. It's
> invaluable in building an RV.
>
> The book cost $13.00 about 8 years ago.
>
> BTW, are you any relation to Hurlbut's in Seattle? I work with a
> woman whose husbands (and hers, too) last name is Hurlbut.
>
>
> John Ammeter
> 1975 Jensen Healey
> RV-6 (sold 4/98)
> EAA Technical Counselor
> NRA Life Member
> Council Member, Snohomish Indian Tribe
> http://members.home.net/ammeterj
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wultrad turn coordinator |
I have two Wultrad products (VSI & Turn Coordinator). Since this thread
came up, I have been nervous about how these instruments are going to
perform.
I didn't immediately realize that Falcon Gauge and Wultrad were the same
company until I looked at the labels on the intrument. That didn't help
instill my confidence in them either. Did anyone else notice where the
label says Wultrad Industries USA is located. It says Libertyrille
(really Libertyville), Illinois. Its this type of lack of attention to
detail that makes me nervous. You figured they could of at least had
someone check their labels for typographical errors. Hopefully the
label isn't an indication of the type of quality that is inside the
instrument.
-Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Torque AN3-5 |
>
>What value do you torque the AN3-5 bolts to that attach the HS411 to the
>horizontal stab rear spar?
>How does one read the torque chart in the Van's construction manual?
>
>Steve Hurlbut
>shurlbut(at)island.net
>RV-6 emp
>C-FSND
>Comox, BC, Canada
>
According to "ASA Aviation Mechanics Handbook" by Dale Crane, fine
thread AN3 bolts with tension nuts should be torqued to 20 to 25
IN/LBS for Standard AN and MS. If you had High Strength MS and NAS
fine thread bolts with tension nuts you would torque to 25 to 30
IN/LBS.
That's Inch not Foot!!! Twelve in/lbs equals one foot/pound.
Bear in mind that you first have to take into account the torque
needed to overcome the fiber/plastic insert in the nut.
I'd highly recommend you purchase this or any similiar book. It's
invaluable in building an RV.
The book cost $13.00 about 8 years ago.
BTW, are you any relation to Hurlbut's in Seattle? I work with a
woman whose husbands (and hers, too) last name is Hurlbut.
John Ammeter
1975 Jensen Healey
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
EAA Technical Counselor
NRA Life Member
Council Member, Snohomish Indian Tribe
http://members.home.net/ammeterj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fresh air respirator |
KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM wrote:
> off of a cheap poncho, a few pop rivets and a little duct tape. I use
> tear-off clear panels to keep the face shield from getting painted.
What are tear-off clear panels, and where do you get them?
Finn
Why pay for something you could get for free?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fresh air respirator |
KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 8/25/00 8:25:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> BSEckstein(at)cs.com writes:
>
> << It is mentioned in the archives that there was a do-it-yourself fresh
> air/respirator system featured in one of the EAA publications a while back.
> Would anyone happen to have it and a scanner and send me a scan of it?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Brian Eckstein
> bseckstein(at)cs.com >>
>
> Try this site: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2951/air_supply.html
>
> It has the basic concept down well, but the one they built is a lot more work
> than you really need.
>
> On mine, I simply took a 100 CFM bathroom fan, wired it to a three prong
> plug, and fiberglassed an adapter between the fan outlet and a 2" (?)
> diameter length of flexible hose. I used hose clamps to attach the hose to
> the adapter, then built a head shroud out of a grinding face shield, the hood
> off of a cheap poncho, a few pop rivets and a little duct tape. I use
> tear-off clear panels to keep the face shield from getting painted.
>
> The most difficult part (for me at least) was terminating the hose inside the
> headgear. In the end, I took a 8' length of the hose, ran it up the back of
> my shirt and into the headgear, then wrapped it around my waist where I zip
> tied it to my belt loops. I put a connector on the end of this hose, so I
> could attach/detach the hose coming from the fresh air blower.
>
> The worst part is getting into/out of the headgear.... It takes a couple of
> seconds to disconnect from the fresh air supply (where is that
> screwdriver??), then another couple of minutes to entirely shed the
> hose/hood..
Good advice.
The ready-made respirator I used had a regular piece of air hose going
to the hood with a conventional disconnect. I used a small oil-less
compressor to pressurize the hood.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Armstrong" <armstrong(at)coastside.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Antennae in the wingtips |
I just purchased the Bob Archer antennas. They arrived two days after I
ordered them by express mail. They are four strips of aluminum riveted
together in the shape shown on the web page. They are about 18 inches long.
I think there is plenty of room for them and the lights. I plan to mount
mine forward of the main spar. I am thinking of either putting oxygen
bottles or storage lockers in the tips between the spars.
George Armstrong
RV6A -wings
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles E. Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:04 AM
Subject: RV-List: Antennae in the wingtips
>
> With reference to the VOR antennae in the wingtips, will they fit if one
> already has the RMD lights in the wingtip.
>
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A QB, On the gear
> San Antonio, TX
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence/twist |
Ed,
You wrote about the rear spar fuselage attach points:
> This is one of the most critical points on the airframe from a safety
> standpoint, and most of the spar failures that have occurred were linked
to
> a problem with that area.
I agree that this is not an area to be taken lightly but I question the
belief that failures were the result of problems in this area. I saw
somewhere that this was believed to be the case back when there was just one
wing bar and one fuselage bar, putting the bolt in single shear. Van then
doubled the bars. Later it was learned that failure here was a result of
other failure and not the cause.
I do agree that it is not a good place for eyeball engineering.
Maybe someone will explain to me why the rear spar on each wing doesn't
stick out like the frontspar and join in the middle of the fuselage. It
would need the same amount of material.
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: wultrad turn coordinator |
> << the way it failed suggested
> bad bearings, likely as a result of sitting on the shelf too long. Shelf
> life is an issue with all gyros. I knew this and spun it up soon after I
> purchased it and again once or twice before first flight, to make sure
the
> bearings didn't go dry, >>
>
> Kelley Instruments recommends spinning the gyros for 10 minutes every 30
days.
> Dale Ensing
So does The Gyro House.
Norman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
Exaust system from Larry is the best. I've got one,I also had another
make which I took off. Larry is a first class guy and you will like
dealing with him.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
| Subject: | Demise of 100 LL |
If 100LL goes away,in my case I will change to a lower compression
piston.Does anyone know which compression ratio would be right for amoco
super premium unleaded?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence/twist |
Finn,
Maybe I don't correctly understand what you mean but filling the hole does
not strengthen anything.
> The only solution I have is to fill the wing spar 1/4" hole with a 1/4"
long
> piece of a 1/4" bolt and then drill the new hole.
The airplane needs some redesign here. My QB came with built in forward
sweep on one wing which was difficult to adjust for. I suspect many have
non-zero sweep or incidence just left uncorrected.
The bars on the wing and fuselage could be wider at the ends allowing
adjustment for incidence and longer to allow for sweep adjustment.
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK calling the gas truck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [rv8list] Vents |
Scott...
I think those little aluminum ones that people have been getting will work,
take a look at this picture:
http://www.egroups.com/files/rv8list/Jim+Grubbs%27+RV-8/jim_grubbs11.jpg
On that same note, for those of you that have installed the little aluminum
vents, do you still have your plastic ones that came with your kit? If so,
please contact me, I could use a couple more!
Thanks...
-Bill VonDane, Colorado
RV-8A, N8VD, Tanks
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 6:36 AM
Subject: [rv8list] Vents
I am considering putting heat to the rear seat. Can anyone with experience
tell if it really necesary? I live in upstate NY and plan on flying year
round. I suspect on a sunny day there will be no problem but how about
flying under an overcast on a cold day?
Does anyone know where I can get a vent that will accept a 1" or 1 1/4"
scat tube? Can't find one in any catalog.
Scott A. Jordan
80331 / N733JJ
Airflow performance injection & other engine stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KAKlewin(at)AOL.COM.Sat, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0005302412@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Sat,
26 Aug 2000 09:46:15.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Mounting below Baggage Compartment Floors |
Fellow listers,
Im looking to mount my strobe power supply below the baggage compartment
floor. My question is how others have mounted other items in this area. I
can rivit a bunch of angle together and rivit it to the stiffeners somehow,
but I wanted to bounce this idea off of you: Im thinking I might just rivit
2 pieces of 3/4 in angle together, making an "s" type shape to which I could
attach the power supply. The 3/4 in angle I could then mount to the skin on
the floor with flush rivits from the bottom. I would also add an additional
piece of alum. to the floor (minimum size required) to strengthen the floor.
The rivits would then go through (from the bottom) the lower skin,
re-inforcing skin, then the angle. The power supply would then be mounted
about 3/4 in above the floor and would have clearance on the top for the
bagg. floor. My main concern is mounting something to the lower skin, even
with some alum. behind it for strength. I guess I really dont see too much
stress being put on it since it fills in the gap between the stiffeners and
really isnt "out on its own somewhere". Any ideas ....???
Kurt, OKC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Wultrad Products; was turn coordinator |
FWIW my Wultrad tachometer never worked correctly from day one and was
replace at 25.3 hrs.
Gary Zilik
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Judd <sjudd(at)ffd2.com> |
| Subject: | The future of aviation propulsion |
Hola,
Well.... now this is strictly confidential... I didn't want to mention
it.. but at work, we've been working on...
(dare I... ?)
... I'm not supposed to talk about it, but we've got a BRAND NEW way of
powering aircraft that may address several of the concerns recently
expressed on the list.
By using advanced 3D hydrodynamic simulations on the worlds fastest
supercomputer, we've been able to show that if you run an engine
backwards, it will actually convert CO2 and other exhaust emissions into
100LL avgas, simultaneously cleansing the atmosphere while producing a
cheap supply of 100LL.
As the avgas is created it is simply fed into the fuel tanks, and you must
land before they become completely full. Upon taking the complex
conjugate of the gas shack, it becomes possible to insert the fuel hose
and extract gas from the tanks, while simultaneously crediting your credit
card.
For long cross countries, this suggests the possibility of first running
the engine forwards, until fuel is depleted, and then run it backwards,
replenishing the fuel supply.
Note that relief tubes and other such devices should not to be used while
running the engine backwards.
I tried selling this idea to Van's, and they gave me a number to call, but
it turned out to be some kind of hospital or something, so I guess they
must be pretty busy, what with the move and all.
So, I just wanted to let everyone know that there are some bold new
technologies on the horizon. But don't tell anybody.
-Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WORK BENCHES |
>
> I just received my rv9a tail, and I promised myself that I would
> build the whole plane
> without asking Van's or 'the LIST' any questions. Oh well, so much
> for that pipe dream.
?!?!?!?!
You would waste this great resource out of, what - pride?
I hope when you have a question and you can't get the answer from
Will's notes, Frank's notes, the "Bunny" notes or the archives, you
will not hesitate to post to the list.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage (and list-dependent)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Fresh air respirator |
In a message dated 8/26/00 12:53:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
finnlassen(at)netzero.net writes:
<<
KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM wrote:
> off of a cheap poncho, a few pop rivets and a little duct tape. I use
> tear-off clear panels to keep the face shield from getting painted.
What are tear-off clear panels, and where do you get them?
Finn >>
Finn,
Tear -offs are clear pieces of vinyl film (maybe 8" x 6") with a small piece
of tape at each edge. You tape them to the outside of your face shield and
they collect the overspray, instead of having it get on the face shield.
When one gets too dirty to see through, simply tear it off, and replace it.
I think I got mine from an industrial supplier, maybe Grainger
(www.grainger.com). They are about a dollar each in small quantities.
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
To the Airport by Labor Day!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RE Miller <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WORK BENCHES |
Barry
I used a 4' x 8' x 1" particle board as the top
surface held on by 8 screws from below. That way when
it gets too nasty, just unscrew and flip over or throw
away. Total height 40", I'm 6'1" tall.
Rob Miller-8
Finishing
> I just received my rv9a tail, and I promised myself
> that I would build
> the whole plane
> without asking Van's or 'the LIST' any questions.
> Oh well, so much for
> that pipe dream.
>
> I have a 2 1/2 car garage that is almost cleaned up.
> I am condemplating
> building some
> work benches and tables.
>
> I have Avery's big C shaped spring back dimpler and
> I know that some of
> you build a special table for that, by itself.
>
> Could someone fill me in on the number, type and
> measurements they went
> with on bench lengths, widths and most important ,
> heights. I'm 5' 10".
>
> Barry Pote
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don R Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
Berry:
I used 3 30"x8 foot, but I was lucky to find them for nothing. I would
suggest one 2x8 feet about 40 to 42 inches high. I tapped several 2x4's
to 1x4's about 3 feet long. They will be the same hight to the anvil. By
moving them around you can support the skins for the C framne & then
store out of the way. When you are through you can build a dog house with
the scape.
You may need the house.
Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
**********************************************************************
>
> I just received my rv9a tail, and I promised myself that I would
> build
> the whole plane
> without asking Van's or 'the LIST' any questions. Oh well, so much
> for
> that pipe dream.
>
> I have a 2 1/2 car garage that is almost cleaned up. I am
> condemplating
> building some
> work benches and tables.
>
> I have Avery's big C shaped spring back dimpler and I know that some
> of
> you build a special table for that, by itself.
>
> Could someone fill me in on the number, type and measurements they
> went
> with on bench lengths, widths and most important , heights. I'm 5'
> 10".
>
> Barry Pote
> rv9a N666BP reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | mounting ailerons |
| From: | "Robert Dickson" <bubba(at)coastalnet.com> |
ok, I'll be the bazillionth person to ask about mounting ailerons. I'm
trying to use the wood strip method of aligning said ailerons. I've studied
the archives and, well, I just don't quite get it. I've got some very nice
.25" x 1.5" strips, about 8' long clamped above and below the wing. I can't
quite figure how how tight (or close) to clamp these strips. They don't
really want to lay flat against the wing without some help. I've got the
wing position horizontally on padded saw horses.
I understand the object is to align the chord line on the aileron with the
one on the wing and that just about any way I can accomplish this is ok (I
think). Plan B is to hold a flat board against the tip end, trace the
pattern and extend the trailing edge lines, then cut out the pattern. Scott
at Van's said he did this and it worked fine, and that the wingform drawing
in the kit isn't very accurate. The thought of all that wood work doesn't
thrill me, so I'm looking for another way.
I'd really appreciate hearing from anyone out there that's used the strips.
And of course if someone wants to tell me the RIGHT way to mount ailerons,
I'll be happy to listen.
Robert Dickson
Fayetteville NC RV 6A QB wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-4 fuel tank bracket question |
I have a question regarding the exact location of the bracket (T-405) from
the fuel tank to the fuselage. I am not sure how the bracket mounts to the
fuse, but is there adjustment at the mounting point to the fuse?? I guess my
question is if I positively rivet it to the tank before I line it up on the
fuse, will it meet line to line once I build the fuse or will it have to be
shimmed, or is there adjustment of the fuse attach point once I build the
fuse?? I'm getting ready to drill it to the tank end rib and did not want to
mess it up. Thanks
-Mike
RV-4 left wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Torque AN3-5 |
>
>In reading Van's torque table. I see the AN3 column and the AN365 nut
>column. From there what are the Nut-bolt size numbers. What does 8-36 mean?
>10-32? 1/4 - 28? etc.....
>I know the AN3-5 bolt is 3/16.
>
I don't know why they use "8-" and "10-" but the "10-" is equalivalent
to the 3/16" bolt. The dash number indicates the number of threads
per inch.
For example, a 1/4-28 is a 1/4" bolt with 28 threads per inch. In
that size, 28 threads per inch is considered a 'fine' thread and 24
threads per inch is a 'coarse' thread.
BTW, an "8" bolt/screw is smaller than a "10" bolt/screw. The
opposite of wire size where the bigger the wire, the smaller the
number.
John Ammeter
1975 Jensen Healey
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
EAA Technical Counselor
NRA Life Member
Council Member, Snohomish Indian Tribe
http://members.home.net/ammeterj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence/twist |
Ok, picture the new 1/4" hole below the old 1/4" hole in the rear spar,
separated by as little as 1/32" material. The wing pushing down on the 1/4"
bolt could potentially push down through that material and the bolt up into
the old hole (not a major failure, however). By filling the old hole, that
would be avoided as the filling material would transfer the load up to the
upper edge of the old hole.
However, I talked with Ken Krueger at Van's and he was concerned by the
side-load (i.e. the rear spar pulling away from the fuselage).
I'm really looking for a solution of changing at least the right wing
incidence which doesn't require removing the wing.
I may add an 1" x 1/8" x ? bar pop-rivited (cherrymax?) to the rear spar
(with a 1/8" spacer) extending inboard at least 1/2" past the bolt. This
could be done with the wing mounted and only the flap removed. Need to check
flap clearance first, though. Remember that the original design of the RV-3
only had an 1/8" 1" x 1" fuselage angle bolted to 1/8" rear spar material! I
already have double the strength (if not more) with 1/4" spar material
sandwiched between the original 1/8" fuselage angle and added 1/8" x 1"
fuselage bar, as per CN-2-2.
That CN came out as a result of early RV-3 wing failures, that at the time
were thought to be caused by rear spar attach failures. Subsequent findings by
Van traced these wing failures to spar cap lamination failure (the old factory
constructed RV-3 wings which held up to the original wing tests had the 1/8"
spar cap bar laminations epoxied for ease of drilling and riveting - the ones
from failed wings not).
Finn
kempthornes wrote:
>
> Finn,
>
> Maybe I don't correctly understand what you mean but filling the hole does
> not strengthen anything.
>
> > The only solution I have is to fill the wing spar 1/4" hole with a 1/4"
> long
> > piece of a 1/4" bolt and then drill the new hole.
>
> The airplane needs some redesign here. My QB came with built in forward
> sweep on one wing which was difficult to adjust for. I suspect many have
> non-zero sweep or incidence just left uncorrected.
>
> The bars on the wing and fuselage could be wider at the ends allowing
> adjustment for incidence and longer to allow for sweep adjustment.
>
> Hal Kempthorne
> RV6a N7HK calling the gas truck
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WORK BENCHES |
Barry... Check the Tips & Tricks page on my web site for my work table and
dimpling table details and building instructions. There is also a link so
you can download the work table plans:
http://vondane.com/rv8a/tips/index.htm
-Bill VonDane, Colorado
RV-8A, N8VD, Tanks
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
----- Original Message -----
From: "barrys" <barrys(at)viconet.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 11:36 AM
Subject: RV-List: WORK BENCHES
Could someone fill me in on the number, type and measurements they went
with on bench lengths, widths and most important , heights. I'm 5' 10".
Barry Pote
rv9a N666BP reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wultrad turn coordinator |
I have a Wultrad/Falcon G'Meter in my 8A, all is well after 28 hours...Mark
Mark Steffensen
8A 30 hours
Dallas, TX
----- Original Message -----
From: <ERSF2B(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: wultrad turn coordinator
>
> Glen,
> The Wultrad/Falcon products are made in China (not Taiwan). You may draw
your
> own conclusions from that.
>
> Rd Storo RV-8
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wultrad turn coordinator |
I have a Wultrad/Falcon G'Meter in my 8A, all is well after 28 hours...Mark
Mark Steffensen
8A 30 hours
Dallas, TX
----- Original Message -----
From: <ERSF2B(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: wultrad turn coordinator
>
> Glen,
> The Wultrad/Falcon products are made in China (not Taiwan). You may draw
your
> own conclusions from that.
>
> Rd Storo RV-8
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Eaves" <doneaves(at)bigfoot.com> |
| Subject: | Mounting below Baggage Compartment Floors |
I mounted both my ELT & Strobe Power Supply below the floor. They are in the
compartments each side of the center bay. They were mounted to the ribs, Not
the shin, using 3/4 .063 angle. To prevent water from flowing along the
floor and entering the units. .063 angle was used, Rib to Rib, to strengthen
the door openings. The doors have hinge pins securing them closed, like the
battery box. I also added a opening the forward and aft bulkheads to allow
air circulation around the power supply.
My Reasons:
- Access to the ELT aft of the baggage compartment is impossible without a
screw driver, etc.
- I built with keeping the CG forward in mind. "Moving the CG forward after
the A/C is complete is harder than moving it aft.
- I'm no expert & I did not know of Bob Nuckolls when I did this So In an
effort to reduce possible communication interference. Place the Strobe Power
Supply under the floor.
- With my effort to keep the CG forward. I did not like the look of the ELT
& Power Supply sitting on the baggage compartment floor
Hope this helps...
Don Eaves
RV6 Finishing the Finishing Kit
Memphis TN
-----Original Message-----
Fellow listers,
Im looking to mount my strobe power supply below the baggage compartment
floor. My question is how others have mounted other items in this area. I
can rivit a bunch of angle together and rivit it to the stiffeners somehow,
but I wanted to bounce this idea off of you: Im thinking I might just rivit
2 pieces of 3/4 in angle together, making an "s" type shape to which I could
attach the power supply. The 3/4 in angle I could then mount to the skin on
the floor with flush rivits from the bottom. I would also add an additional
piece of alum. to the floor (minimum size required) to strengthen the floor.
The rivits would then go through (from the bottom) the lower skin,
re-inforcing skin, then the angle. The power supply would then be mounted
about 3/4 in above the floor and would have clearance on the top for the
bagg. floor. My main concern is mounting something to the lower skin, even
with some alum. behind it for strength. I guess I really dont see too much
stress being put on it since it fills in the gap between the stiffeners and
really isnt "out on its own somewhere". Any ideas ....???
Kurt, OKC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)AOL.COM |
Folks
I am planning on attending, but have not gone before. I have two brief
questions.
First is, "What type of attire do folks wear to the banquet?" and Second is,
"Will there be transportation to Wilsonville?"
Thanks
Jim Nice
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ENewton57(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: mounting ailerons |
In a message dated 8/26/00 6:27:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
bubba(at)coastalnet.com writes:
<< I'm
trying to use the wood strip method of aligning said ailerons. I've studied
the archives and, well, I just don't quite get it. I've got some very nice
.25" x 1.5" strips, about 8' long clamped above and below the wing. I can't
quite figure how how tight (or close) to clamp these strips. They don't
really want to lay flat against the wing without some help. I've got the
wing position horizontally on padded saw horses. >>
Hi Robert,
I can't believe this but this is the second time today that I referred
someone to Michael Stewart's web site. it so happens that he mounted his
ailerons just as you described and has really good pictures. Here is where
to go:
RV-6A
http://www.mstewart.net/michael/rv/rvhome.htm Look under the section called
"The Wing" and then click on "Hanging the Tail Feathers".
Good Luck,
Eric Newton Long Beach, MS
RV-6A N57ME (reserved) (ailerons)
Eric's RV-6A
Construction Page
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Eaves" <doneaves(at)bigfoot.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 fuel tank bracket question |
Mike
My A/C is a 6 - I just mounted the attachment to the fuselage this week.
When I installed the T405/T605 on the tank I just followed the instructions
and fitted it into the leading edge - I was as concerned as you are - When
you mount the attachment at the fuselage you clamp it to the 405 - drill the
attach hole then drill it to the fuselage thus no shims should be needed -
Also there is a service bulletin requiring that hole be slotted so the fuel
tank will not be pulled open in a crash. I will cut this slot after I remove
the wings to install the fairing nut plates. Hope this helps...
Don Eaves
RV6 Finishing the Finishing Kit
Memphis TN
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of N8292W(at)AOL.COM
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 5:00 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-4 fuel tank bracket question
I have a question regarding the exact location of the bracket (T-405) from
the fuel tank to the fuselage. I am not sure how the bracket mounts to the
fuse, but is there adjustment at the mounting point to the fuse?? I guess my
question is if I positively rivet it to the tank before I line it up on the
fuse, will it meet line to line once I build the fuse or will it have to be
shimmed, or is there adjustment of the fuse attach point once I build the
fuse?? I'm getting ready to drill it to the tank end rib and did not want
to
mess it up. Thanks
-Mike
RV-4 left wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: WORK BENCHES |
Barry,
There is a set of plans on my web page that makes an excellent workbench. I
got them from Bill VonDane but I think they originated with EAA Chapter
1000. Anyway, the plans are for a 4x8 table but I easily modified them for
a 4x6 table.
http://www.mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page/table.htm
I recently saw where a new builder built a dedicated table for the Cframe
tool but several people have built portable dimpling fixtures that work
great and can be stowed away when not in use. You can see my version of the
dimpling table fixture here:
http://www.mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page/tools.htm
Mike Nellis - RV-6 Wings N699BM (res)
Plainfield, IL
http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
----- Original Message -----
From: "barrys" <barrys(at)viconet.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 1:36 PM
Subject: RV-List: WORK BENCHES
>
> I just received my rv9a tail, and I promised myself that I would build
> the whole plane
> without asking Van's or 'the LIST' any questions. Oh well, so much for
> that pipe dream.
>
> I have a 2 1/2 car garage that is almost cleaned up. I am condemplating
> building some
> work benches and tables.
>
> I have Avery's big C shaped spring back dimpler and I know that some of
> you build a special table for that, by itself.
>
> Could someone fill me in on the number, type and measurements they went
> with on bench lengths, widths and most important , heights. I'm 5' 10".
>
> Barry Pote
> rv9a N666BP reserved
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clayfly(at)libertybay.com.Sat, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0005310082@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Sat,
26 Aug 2000 18:17:24.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | RV-4 fuel tank bracket question |
Hi Mike,
Don't sweat it. Just rivet the tank bracket on there. When it's time to build
the other bracket
piece that attaches to the fuselage it will all make sense to you and it will be
quite easy. The
bracket that goes to the fuselage is done when you have your wings mounted to the
fuselage
and you just line the piece up and drill into the fuselage longerons that just
happen to be right
where you need them.
Press on!
Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X, inspection Monday morning!
Indiana
> ** Original Subject: RV-List: RV-4 fuel tank bracket question
> ** Original Sender: N8292W(at)AOL.COM
> ** Original Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 16:35:01 -0700
> ** Original Message follows...
>
>
> I have a question regarding the exact location of the bracket (T-405) from
> the fuel tank to the fuselage. I am not sure how the bracket mounts to the
> fuse, but is there adjustment at the mounting point to the fuse?? I guess my
> question is if I positively rivet it to the tank before I line it up on the
> fuse, will it meet line to line once I build the fuse or will it have to be
> shimmed, or is there adjustment of the fuse attach point once I build the
> fuse?? I'm getting ready to drill it to the tank end rib and did not want to
> mess it up. Thanks
> -Mike
> RV-4 left wing
>
>
> _-
===========================================================
> _-
===========================================================
> _-
===========================================================
> _-
===========================================================
>
>
>** --------- End Original Message ----------- **
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ENewton57(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: The future of aviation propulsion |
In a message dated 8/26/00 3:50:21 PM Central Daylight Time, sjudd(at)ffd2.com
writes:
<< By using advanced 3D hydrodynamic simulations on the worlds fastest
supercomputer, we've been able to show that if you run an engine
backwards, it will actually convert CO2 and other exhaust emissions into
100LL avgas, simultaneously cleansing the atmosphere while producing a
cheap supply of 100LL.
>>
Well you know recently we had a post on this list about a guy that mounted
his wings on a RV-4 backwards. I bet he would be interested in your
backwards running engine. All he would need is a good rear view mirror and
he's all set.
Do nor archive
Eric Newton Long Beach, MS
RV-6A N57ME (reserved) (mounting flaps and ailerons)
Eric's RV-6A
Construction Page
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pat_hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting below Baggage Compartment Floors |
Kurt:
Another possibility is to build an access cover in the baggage floor for the
power supply with a doubler for the mounting screws and nutplates--but mount
the power supply on the cover, not the floor. That way when you remove the
cover, you also would be removing the power supply for access. I plan on
doing mine this way.
Pat Hatch
RV-4, N17PH @ VRB, 700 hours TT
O-320, Hartzell C/S
RV-6, Fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: <KAKlewin(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 12:17 PM
Subject: RV-List: Mounting below Baggage Compartment Floors
>
> Fellow listers,
>
> Im looking to mount my strobe power supply below the baggage
compartment
> floor. My question is how others have mounted other items in this area.
I
> can rivit a bunch of angle together and rivit it to the stiffeners
somehow,
> but I wanted to bounce this idea off of you: Im thinking I might just
rivit
> 2 pieces of 3/4 in angle together, making an "s" type shape to which I
could
> attach the power supply. The 3/4 in angle I could then mount to the skin
on
> the floor with flush rivits from the bottom. I would also add an
additional
> piece of alum. to the floor (minimum size required) to strengthen the
floor.
> The rivits would then go through (from the bottom) the lower skin,
> re-inforcing skin, then the angle. The power supply would then be mounted
> about 3/4 in above the floor and would have clearance on the top for the
> bagg. floor. My main concern is mounting something to the lower skin,
even
> with some alum. behind it for strength. I guess I really dont see too
much
> stress being put on it since it fills in the gap between the stiffeners
and
> really isnt "out on its own somewhere". Any ideas ....???
>
> Kurt, OKC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> |
| Subject: | Tall man's option in RV-8 |
I'm posting this for a friend of mine that is 6'8" w/ a 38" inseam. He tried
to sit in an RV-8 today but no way. The height is no problem, only legroom.
Does anyone on the list know what the mods are for the tall man's option?
Even better, does anyone know how many extra inches is gained?
Are
RV-8
empennage 80% complete - wings on order.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re:Under Belly Skin Temperatures |
There was a thread a while back about people getting hot feet in their
RV4's. Well, I don't think I qualify for the dumb dumb award but this may be
close. I located my outside air temperature probe on the belly of my RV4
about two inches forward and three to the right of the forward stick. I did
this because I thought the air would already be turbulent down there and it
wouldn't increase the drag. No, I wasn't drinking at the time, just tired.
The probe is in a position such that it is not being hit directly by the
exhaust plumes but it is seeing the air being discharged from the engine
cowling. The probe is about three feet from the cowl exit.
Would you believe I was seeing 140F in level flight at cruise! Yes, I
moved the probe but now you know why you were getting hot feet.
Tom Brown RV4 flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 fuel tank bracket question |
Hi Mike,
Not to worry. Go ahead and rivet the bracket to the fuel tank. The
mating bracket that bolts to the tank bracket on the fuselage will be aligned
and drilled when you fit the wings to the fuselage. You shouldn't need
shims. The profile for the mating bracket is much bigger than it has to be.
This allows for some tolerance on the bolt location. Fore and aft position
on the fuselage is determined when you fit your wings.
Tom Brown RV4 flying 56 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Loose Rivets |
In a message dated 08/25/2000 8:39:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Mark.Nielsen@fiedler-lp.com writes:
> In my RV-6, some of the rivets that attach the stiffeners to the
> forward belly pan have loosened.
Me, too. What happens if you do nothing except continue to wipe off the
mess? Am I risking a catastrophic failure?
Bill Boyd
RV-6A O-320/FP Sensenich
Hop-Along Airfield - 12VA
Clifton Forge, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [rv8list] Vents |
>I am considering putting heat to the rear seat. Can anyone with experience
>tell if it really necesary? I live in upstate NY and plan on flying year
>round. I suspect on a sunny day there will be no problem but how about
>flying under an overcast on a cold day?
Well, it largely depends on how robust your back seater is! I flew up at
some pretty high altitudes last winter and had my wife with me a couple of
times, and my dad a few times as well. Wife had to wear a full length down
filled coat and was OK with cabin heat open (firewall heat box with Van's
heat muff). Dad was OK with a lighter weight winter coat and gloves. I
just could not find an elegant way to route heat directly to the back seat
without hacking huge holes in the floor structure.
Tell your GIB's (guy or girl in back) to "dress for the conditions" and put
in a standard heat muff/heat box setup. The heat does get back there
eventually and you should be able to keep them from turning blue on you.
The coldest parts on my pax seemed to be their feet. So, wool socks and
boots may be a good idea.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM |
Gentlemen,
There was some discussion a while back about how to calibrate airspeed
indicators. I have been using the three 90 degree turn GPS method to test my
airspeed indicator at various weights, altitudes, and flight configurations.
I am using the flush mounted static ports listed in the Cleveland's Tool
catalog and a Van's airspeed indicator.
The airspeed indicator is pretty close at high speeds but indicates about
10 mph slow at slower speeds. So here is the question. At 1450 lbs, Vs1
indicated is 50, Vso is 55 mph, at 1750 lbs, Vs1 increases to 55 and Vso to
60 mph. The speeds indicated are about what I would expect until you add the
10 mph factor to the numbers. Van's list Vso at 1500 pounds as 54 mph.
Stalls are straight forward. No bad handling characteristics. A slight buffet
followed by a clean break straight ahead.
What could I have possibly done to my airplane that would cause the stall
speed to increase 10 mph? Have you verified your stall speeds to be close to
the design numbers?
Tom Brown RV4 flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re:Prop Governor Cable Bracket |
Gentlemen,
I am using the prop governor cable bracket sold by Vans and a Woodward
governor on an O-360. The engine will only turn up to 2630 at full throttle
because of an interference between the governor cable and the low rpm
governor stop. I know you can loosen the screws on the back of the governor
and rotate the assembly for position. However, this doesn't change the
position of the bracket relative to the mounting screw holes. In my opinion,
the holes in the bracket need to be rotated counterclockwise about 1/8" to
allow proper cable alignment.
I know it is the interference that is causing the problem because I can
visually see the contact of the cable with governor stops and the governor
does not reach the high RPM stop. In flight if you push on the Prop rpm
level the cable will flex and the engine goes to full speed.
Has anyone else had this problem and what did you do about it? It is
going to be a real challenge at this point to access the area to effect any
type of change. The only thing I can think of if to attempt to remove the
cable and put a slight bend in the solid shaft portion of the cable. I may be
able to get the governor to remove and modify the bracket.
Tom Brown RV4 flying - missing a few ponies on takeoff and climb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas McIntyre <bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net> |
Tom
A few questions?
What type pitot system are you using and is it in the recommended location?
Do you have dual static ports, 0ne on each side of the fuselage?
Are your wings painted with a leading edge stripe?
Tom
RV3 2 time builder, 1700+ hours in RV's
RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> There was some discussion a while back about how to calibrate airspeed
> indicators. I have been using the three 90 degree turn GPS method to test my
> airspeed indicator at various weights, altitudes, and flight configurations.
> I am using the flush mounted static ports listed in the Cleveland's Tool
> catalog and a Van's airspeed indicator.
>
> The airspeed indicator is pretty close at high speeds but indicates about
> 10 mph slow at slower speeds. So here is the question. At 1450 lbs, Vs1
> indicated is 50, Vso is 55 mph, at 1750 lbs, Vs1 increases to 55 and Vso to
> 60 mph. The speeds indicated are about what I would expect until you add the
> 10 mph factor to the numbers. Van's list Vso at 1500 pounds as 54 mph.
> Stalls are straight forward. No bad handling characteristics. A slight buffet
> followed by a clean break straight ahead.
>
> What could I have possibly done to my airplane that would cause the stall
> speed to increase 10 mph? Have you verified your stall speeds to be close to
> the design numbers?
>
> Tom Brown RV4 flying
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 0-360/airbox/rv4/bendix injector/help |
I mounted my top plate to check alignment with the cowl and saw that the
mixture arm on the bendix injector doesn't clear the plate. When swung to
full rich it hangs down about 1/2 inch below the top plate on the FAB or the
base of the injector. Any solutions to the problem? I thought about cutting
the arm, bending with two 90 degree turns to shorten, cutting a big hole in
the air box or maybe trying to order a shorter arm.
Thanks,
Carey Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Knicholas2(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: RV membership survey, Would you use this FREE website if |
it was ...
I would be interested.
Kim Nicholas
RV9A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Craig in Tallahassee |
Hey Craig,
If your around, I love to hear from you and see your plane. Drop me a line
sometime.
Carey Mills
334 598-6226
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Knicholas2(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: WORK BENCHES |
In a message dated 8/26/2000 3:08:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
grobdriver(at)yahoo.com writes:
> You would waste this great resource out of, what - pride?
> I hope when you have a question and you can't get the answer from
> Will's notes, Frank's notes, the "Bunny" notes
I am new here and just received my RV9 emp. kit. What are "Will's, Frank's
and Bunny notes" and where on the web can I find them?
Kim Nicholas
Already overwhelmed with RV9....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RE Miller <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Aplology (Work Benches Thread) |
Listers
My apologies for the misinformed and inflammatory
comments I made earlier. Sorry to Mike Thompson for
the flame.
Rob Miller
Wanted: Lubricant needed for removing close-tolerance
foot from mouth.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Aviation Swap Meet |
Listers:
Just a note to let you know that an Aviation Swap Meet is scheduled for Sept 10,
2000 at the Nut Tree Airport, California. See http://www.solanopilots.com if you
need more information.
David Aronson
RV4 N504RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hurlbut" <shurlbut(at)island.net> |
| Subject: | Re: WORK BENCHES |
Frank's notes
http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/hovan/index.html
They're toward the bottom of the web page
Bunny's Guide
http://fly.to/bunnysguide
Good luck
Steve Hurlbut
shurlbut(at)island.net
RV-6 emp
C-FSND
Comox, BC, Canada
----- Original Message -----
From: <Knicholas2(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: WORK BENCHES
>
> In a message dated 8/26/2000 3:08:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> grobdriver(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> > You would waste this great resource out of, what - pride?
> > I hope when you have a question and you can't get the answer from
> > Will's notes, Frank's notes, the "Bunny" notes
>
> I am new here and just received my RV9 emp. kit. What are "Will's,
Frank's
> and Bunny notes" and where on the web can I find them?
>
> Kim Nicholas
> Already overwhelmed with RV9....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hurlbut" <shurlbut(at)island.net> |
| Subject: | Re: WORK BENCHES |
Will's notes
http://home.flash.net/~gila/
Steve Hurlbut
shurlbut(at)island.net
RV-6 emp
C-FSND
Comox, BC, Canada
----- Original Message -----
From: <Knicholas2(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: WORK BENCHES
>
> In a message dated 8/26/2000 3:08:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> grobdriver(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> > You would waste this great resource out of, what - pride?
> > I hope when you have a question and you can't get the answer from
> > Will's notes, Frank's notes, the "Bunny" notes
>
> I am new here and just received my RV9 emp. kit. What are "Will's,
Frank's
> and Bunny notes" and where on the web can I find them?
>
> Kim Nicholas
> Already overwhelmed with RV9....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <douggray(at)ihug.com.au> |
| Subject: | Lycoming Operator's and Service Manuals are available online? |
While browsing the Citabria Owners' Group website I saw that they had
the Lycoming Owners and Operators manuals available in pdf format for
download. The catch is that to be able to download them you need to be
a member of their group. The download requires a user name and pword.
So we know that they are available, but does anyone have an alternate
site to retrive them? (I need the 320 version)
Doug Gray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pat_hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting below Baggage Compartment Floors |
Kurt:
Another possibility is to build an access cover in the baggage floor for the
power supply with a doubler for the mounting screws and nutplates--but mount
the power supply on the cover, not the floor. That way when you remove the
cover, you also would be removing the power supply for access. I plan on
doing mine this way.
Pat Hatch
RV-4, N17PH @ VRB, 700 hours TT
O-320, Hartzell C/S
RV-6, Fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: <KAKlewin(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 12:17 PM
Subject: RV-List: Mounting below Baggage Compartment Floors
>
> Fellow listers,
>
> Im looking to mount my strobe power supply below the baggage
compartment
> floor. My question is how others have mounted other items in this area.
I
> can rivit a bunch of angle together and rivit it to the stiffeners
somehow,
> but I wanted to bounce this idea off of you: Im thinking I might just
rivit
> 2 pieces of 3/4 in angle together, making an "s" type shape to which I
could
> attach the power supply. The 3/4 in angle I could then mount to the skin
on
> the floor with flush rivits from the bottom. I would also add an
additional
> piece of alum. to the floor (minimum size required) to strengthen the
floor.
> The rivits would then go through (from the bottom) the lower skin,
> re-inforcing skin, then the angle. The power supply would then be mounted
> about 3/4 in above the floor and would have clearance on the top for the
> bagg. floor. My main concern is mounting something to the lower skin,
even
> with some alum. behind it for strength. I guess I really dont see too
much
> stress being put on it since it fills in the gap between the stiffeners
and
> really isnt "out on its own somewhere". Any ideas ....???
>
> Kurt, OKC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Murphy <jgmurphy(at)xtra.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: WORK BENCHES |
Barry
I am building a -6 and asked the same question last year (doesnt time
fly when youre having fun in the shed). My bench is 3ft wide by 8ftlong
and 3ft high ( I am your height). I built a recess for the C Frame
dimpler which has a blanking piece for when dimpler is removed. THE
MOST IMPORTANT ADVISE I GOT FROM THE LIST WAS TO ENSUR THAT U HAD ACCESS
ON ALL 4 SIDES. You will need that, particularly from the back. I
nearly built mine into a fixed wall bench top.
The only thing I would do different is to not use saft pine plywood as
the top. Better to use MDF or similar.
I have dimpled the empennage on it and am doing other controls b4 I
tackle the wing. Do remember to only match drill your 3/32 dimple holes
3/32 dia NOT No 40 like Van says. They will stretch on dimpling to No
40 size. PLEASE NO FLAMES.
Good luck
Graham Murphy
Blenheim
New Zealand.
barrys wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I have Avery's big C shaped spring back dimpler and I know that some of
> you build a special table for that, by itself.
>
> Could someone fill me in on the number, type and measurements they went
> with on bench lengths, widths and most important , heights. I'm 5' 10".
>
> Barry Pote
> rv9a N666BP reserved
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Murphy <jgmurphy(at)xtra.co.nz> |
Tom
I spent some of my youth determining "position errors" in single engine
aircraft, which is what u are trying to measure. In those days we
dragged a calibrated "bomb" beneath the AEROPLANE which measured local
"free stream" static pressure, and was hooked to a test ASI. Both ASI's
used the same pitot pressure. That was well b4 GPS but I have real
doubts that you can measure position errors accurately using GPS unless
you are very careful. My point is that you are measuring very small
differences in airspeeds and the assumption of GPS testing is that the
windspeed doesnt vary significantly in relation to the small difference
that you are trying to measure. However if u get LOTS of data points
and the figures are consistent, that may work. Of course it helps to
pick calm weather, like early morning cold winter days.
Equally important is the isolating out of "instrument ertror". We used
to have two Cubs which purportdely cruised at 5-6 mph different speeds.
Guess what, one had an ASI reading 3mph slow the other 3mph fast, and
that aint unusual. So if u really want to know what your position error
is first calibrate your ASI and get the calibration errors from the shop
that does it. Always correct for instrument error first in yr calcs.
Re the figure Vans uses, is it IAS or EAS ?? The latter (sometimes
called CAS) is what I like to think of as "true" indicated airspeed (NOT
TAS). If Vans figures are IAS and yrs are IAS then u can reasonably
compare figures BUT strictly speaking u should first take out the
instrument error. Did vans take out that figure?? I doubt it. Finally
when comparing stall speeds make sure your test weight is known
accuartely so that u can correct to the MAUW figure. All corrections for
weight need to be done in EAS/CAS figures.
There is more to this subject than meets the eye.
RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> There was some discussion a while back about how to calibrate airspeed
> indicators. I have been using the three 90 degree turn GPS method to test my
> airspeed indicator at various weights, altitudes, and flight configurations.
> I am using the flush mounted static ports listed in the Cleveland's Tool
> catalog and a Van's airspeed indicator.
>
> The airspeed indicator is pretty close at high speeds but indicates about
> 10 mph slow at slower speeds. So here is the question. At 1450 lbs, Vs1
> indicated is 50, Vso is 55 mph, at 1750 lbs, Vs1 increases to 55 and Vso to
> 60 mph. The speeds indicated are about what I would expect until you add the
> 10 mph factor to the numbers. Van's list Vso at 1500 pounds as 54 mph.
> Stalls are straight forward. No bad handling characteristics. A slight buffet
> followed by a clean break straight ahead.
>
> What could I have possibly done to my airplane that would cause the stall
> speed to increase 10 mph? Have you verified your stall speeds to be close to
> the design numbers?
>
> Tom Brown RV4 flying
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | RV-Links, was: WORK BENCHES |
>
>In a message dated 8/26/2000 3:08:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>grobdriver(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
>> You would waste this great resource out of, what - pride?
>> I hope when you have a question and you can't get the answer from
>> Will's notes, Frank's notes, the "Bunny" notes
>
>I am new here and just received my RV9 emp. kit. What are "Will's, Frank's
>and Bunny notes" and where on the web can I find them?
>
>Kim Nicholas
>Already overwhelmed with RV9....
I've got a good collection of links to RV related material at:
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rvlinks.html
It has links to all the construction notes that I can find, plus lots
of other useful stuff. I'm always looking for more links to add, so
send them to me.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joe wiza <jwiza1(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: mounting ailerons |
While the wing was in the jig I used a plumb bob on
the outside to line up the cord line holes. For the
inside of the aileron (root end) I split the wood
template front and back and clamped the front and
bottom together over the wing.(the template left a lot
to be desired)Then I just checked the gap distance
between the aileron and wing to be equal. Dont know if
this is the proper way to do it but it worked for me.
RV6A 105 hrs still smiling
--- Robert Dickson wrote:
>
>
> ok, I'll be the bazillionth person to ask about
> mounting ailerons. I'm
> trying to use the wood strip method of aligning said
> ailerons. I've studied
> the archives and, well, I just don't quite get it.
> I've got some very nice
> .25" x 1.5" strips, about 8' long clamped above and
> below the wing. I can't
> quite figure how how tight (or close) to clamp these
> strips. They don't
> really want to lay flat against the wing without
> some help. I've got the
> wing position horizontally on padded saw horses.
>
> I understand the object is to align the chord line
> on the aileron with the
> one on the wing and that just about any way I can
> accomplish this is ok (I
> think). Plan B is to hold a flat board against the
> tip end, trace the
> pattern and extend the trailing edge lines, then cut
> out the pattern. Scott
> at Van's said he did this and it worked fine, and
> that the wingform drawing
> in the kit isn't very accurate. The thought of all
> that wood work doesn't
> thrill me, so I'm looking for another way.
>
> I'd really appreciate hearing from anyone out there
> that's used the strips.
> And of course if someone wants to tell me the RIGHT
> way to mount ailerons,
> I'll be happy to listen.
>
> Robert Dickson
> Fayetteville NC RV 6A QB wings
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Prop Governor Cable Bracket |
RV4Brown(at)aol.com wrote:
> I am using the prop governor cable bracket sold by Vans and a Woodward
> governor on an O-360. The engine will only turn up to 2630 at full throttle
> because of an interference between the governor cable and the low rpm
> governor stop.
AHHHHH! I discovered this problem just after mounting my cable. As the governor
arm rotates vertical, the solid cable rod contacts the slot in the bracket.
After pondering this for a while, I removed the O-360, removed the bracket and
removed about 1/8 to 3/16 of material from the top of the slot. I don't think
you can do this in place.
I purchased Van's bracket in Oct 1999. If you look at the instructions that came
with it, it was designed so the solid cable rod is perfectly centered when the
governor arm is open or shut. At midstroke, IT FOULS!
Richard Reynolds Norfolk, VA, RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Judd <sjudd(at)ffd2.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WORK BENCHES |
Hola Barry,
>
> I just received my rv9a tail, and I promised myself that I would build
> the whole plane
> without asking Van's or 'the LIST' any questions. Oh well, so much for
> that pipe dream.
I used to tell students that we all know there's such a thing as a dumb
question, but that they have a simple choice: either to look dumb, or to
be dumb.
Of course, you can also be like me and simultaneously act, look, and be
dumb, but that takes a lot of talent and effort.
> Could someone fill me in on the number, type and measurements they went
> with on bench lengths, widths and most important , heights. I'm 5' 10".
I built two benches, each using a 2' x 4' piece of particle board and
scrap 2x4s. This way, I can put them together one way to get an 8 foot
long workbench, and put them together another way to get a square 4x4
bench. This is also partly out of necessity, as I am building in a small
garage and need to be able to rearrange at will. Both have a shelf
underneath, and I built a large sliding drawer in one.
I also lay a piece of hardboard on top of each bench. They are tough, and
I can have one for greasy work, another for woodwork, and if they ever get
too crapped up they are very easy and cheap to replace.
I tried to build them at a comfortable height, but I find that parts are
of such different sizes that sometimes it is too high and other times
perhaps too low. Nevertheless, I just stood in place, and tried to
imagine where I'd like my arms and hands to be, and built to that height.
I also have a third bench which I bought at Home Depot a while back, at
about the same height... you know, they _are_ right: there's no such thing
as too much bench space. Usually I have the plans, logs, parts, stereo,
cats, snacks, etc. on top of this one.
I also built a small table on casters, with power tools (grinder, sander,
etc.) on each corner, more or less as described in Bingelis, which I
highly recommend.
Regarding the C-frame, I just lay a 1/2-inch or so board with a piece of
carpet on it, when I need back support. I've never used a special table,
so I don't know how it compares. Keep in mind that you will be using the
tool on many U-shaped parts, where half of the U is _underneath_ the
C-frame (so don't mount the C-frame in the middle of the table). Many
times I'll have the frame sticking out over the edge of the bench, to make
access easier.
Free advice, and worth every penny.
-S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> |
Here's what I built (I likes it so much, I made two of them). I used
particleboard for table top though as opposed to the plywood in the plans.
http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/worktabl.htm
Are
RV-8
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Judd
Sent: August 27, 2000 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: WORK BENCHES
> Could someone fill me in on the number, type and measurements they went
> with on bench lengths, widths and most important , heights. I'm 5' 10".
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A down SoCAL |
Good to hear no one was injured. Any idea yet as to the type of engine
falure? Keep us posted on the findings. Terry E. Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Kunkel <rvator(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: WORK BENCHES-Solid Core Doors |
Hi Barry,
I use building standard 8'0" x 3'0" solid core doors as the tops for my work
benches and have been very pleased with them. If you work in a commercial
office building &/or contact a demolition contractor you'll generally find
that a lot of these doors get thrown away when a new tenant space gets built
out (wrong color/design), they get a scratch on them, etc., i.e., cost=$0.
They're smooth, straight, heavy!, & have a nice veneer finish on them. I was
also told (right or wrong) that particle board is much more abrasive than
regular wood & tends to dull drill bits very quickly if you're drilling into
the table. A thought.
Blue Skies!
Are Barstad wrote:
>
> Here's what I built (I likes it so much, I made two of them). I used
> particleboard for table top though as opposed to the plywood in the plans.
>
> http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/worktabl.htm
>
> Are
> RV-8
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Judd
> Sent: August 27, 2000 9:29 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: WORK BENCHES
>
> > Could someone fill me in on the number, type and measurements they went
> > with on bench lengths, widths and most important , heights. I'm 5' 10".
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Brick" <jbrick(at)wolfenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 fuel tank bracket question |
When you get around to making F-463, the mating angle that bolts to the
fuselage, fit the 3/16 angle stock to the fuselage and drill it to the
longerons before you start carving it to shape. It will fit better than if
you manufacture F-463 from the plans. I opened up the 3/16 angle about 5
degrees to mate flat with the tank angle.
jb
RV-4 Canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Experimental Signage |
Hi,
On an RV-6 TIP-UP, can I put the "Experimental" sign on the underside of
the forward canopy skin? It would be visible to anyone getting into the
aircraft (canopy up), however it would not be visible when the canopy is
closed.
-Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: WORK BENCHES-Solid Core Doors |
I built most of my airplane on a solid core door on 2 sawhorses. It's a good
height to sit at and work and it's very portable.
Dave SoCal
Fred Kunkel wrote:
>
> Hi Barry,
>
> I use building standard 8'0" x 3'0" solid core doors as the tops for my work
> benches and have been very pleased with them. If you work in a commercial
> office building &/or contact a demolition contractor you'll generally find
> that a lot of these doors get thrown away when a new tenant space gets built
> out (wrong color/design), they get a scratch on them, etc., i.e., cost=$0.
> They're smooth, straight, heavy!, & have a nice veneer finish on them. I was
> also told (right or wrong) that particle board is much more abrasive than
> regular wood & tends to dull drill bits very quickly if you're drilling into
> the table. A thought.
>
> Blue Skies!
>
> Are Barstad wrote:
>
> >
> > Here's what I built (I likes it so much, I made two of them). I used
> > particleboard for table top though as opposed to the plywood in the plans.
> >
> > http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/worktabl.htm
> >
> > Are
> > RV-8
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Judd
> > Sent: August 27, 2000 9:29 AM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: WORK BENCHES
> >
> > > Could someone fill me in on the number, type and measurements they went
> > > with on bench lengths, widths and most important , heights. I'm 5' 10".
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Prop Governor Cable Bracket |
I had EXACTLY the same experience with my O360A1A and Woodward governor. I
assumed at the time that relieving the slot was a normal building step in
line with the motto: "Do what ever it takes to make it fit!" I now realize
after reading RV4Brown's posting that the interference was subtle and that
some builders might not catch it. I suspect there are lots of RVs with this
problem.
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A Hartzell 0.0 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard V. Reynolds <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
Date: Sunday, August 27, 2000 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Prop Governor Cable Bracket
>
>
>RV4Brown(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>> I am using the prop governor cable bracket sold by Vans and a Woodward
>> governor on an O-360. The engine will only turn up to 2630 at full
throttle
>> because of an interference between the governor cable and the low rpm
>> governor stop.
>
>AHHHHH! I discovered this problem just after mounting my cable. As the
governor
>arm rotates vertical, the solid cable rod contacts the slot in the bracket.
>After pondering this for a while, I removed the O-360, removed the bracket
and
>removed about 1/8 to 3/16 of material from the top of the slot. I don't
think
>you can do this in place.
>
>I purchased Van's bracket in Oct 1999. If you look at the instructions that
came
>with it, it was designed so the solid cable rod is perfectly centered when
the
>governor arm is open or shut. At midstroke, IT FOULS!
>
>Richard Reynolds Norfolk, VA, RV-6A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Experimental Signage |
Glenn & Judi wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> On an RV-6 TIP-UP, can I put the "Experimental" sign on the underside of
> the forward canopy skin? It would be visible to anyone getting into the
> aircraft (canopy up), however it would not be visible when the canopy is
> closed.
>
> -Glenn Gordon
>
Don't know about the word experimental but that is where I put my
passenger
warning.
Jerry S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KAKlewin(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Running Wires... |
Fellow Listers,
Hello once again!! My archive search didnt come up with much so I
thought I would pick your brains a bit today on running wires. Just
wondering where everyone ran their nav light/strobe/comm and nav ant/elec
trim..wires...getting up to about the baggage bins seems fairly elementary,
but am wondering how you worked your way under the seats and to the panel.
It seems as though you can go through the center or down the sides. I
noticed the wing spar seems to have an oversized hole to run wires through,
but I hate to plan on something when Im not sure. Did most folks run the
wires up the side panels (above or below) the rudder cables? Just wondering
as I dont want to run any wires that I may have to move later on.
Thanks again....
Kurt, OKC, OK
RV6A QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence/twist |
Finn wrote:
> However, I talked with Ken Krueger at Van's and he was concerned by the
> side-load (i.e. the rear spar pulling away from the fuselage).
I believe that tail slides are not recommended in any of the RVs and I can't
think of ***ANY*** other time when there would be a side load - pulling the
rear spar connection away from the fuselage. The only significant loads on
this bolt (pin?) are up and down loads IMHO. I have studied aerodynamics
but I am strictly an amateur at it. I am, however, smartass enough to
question anyone who can't explain to me how they arrive at their
conclusions. So, let me ask you if Ken explained or if I should talk to
him.
I just want to know out of curiosity and so I will know how to design my own
cross country racer!
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK
"Make it fit" that is, "get a bigger hammer".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence/twist |
> I am not sure exactly why. But as I understand it, the rear spar is
> supposed to flex or pivot at the bolt joint when the wing flexes.
I'm not sure why either, Tom. Someone at Van's told me this but didn't
explain why to my satisfaction. When I asked if the bolt should be a "loose
pin" (a structures technical term) they said no. Torque as with any bolt.
I asked if this wouldn't either prevent flexing or cause wear and the answer
was no to both. As I understood it, it has to be able to flex tho it never
does. Huh??
Why would it need to flex. One of you aerodynamicists???
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque AN3-5 |
John Ammeter wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> >In reading Van's torque table. I see the AN3 column and the AN365 nut
> >column. From there what are the Nut-bolt size numbers. What does 8-36 mean?
> >10-32? 1/4 - 28? etc.....
> >I know the AN3-5 bolt is 3/16.
> >
>
If the '8-36' is mentioned in the same context as '10-32' & '1/4-28',
it's probably just a misprint for '8-32' which is a common size &
threads per inch for bolts in hardware store nomenclature.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joe wiza <jwiza1(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Running Wires... |
I ran mine hrough the none structural part of the spar
along the floor stiffner (shielded) under the battery
box along the back of the firewall and back to the
inst panel (leaving about 18" extra for panel removal)
RV6A 105 hrs
--- KAKlewin(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> Fellow Listers,
>
> Hello once again!! My archive search didnt
> come up with much so I
> thought I would pick your brains a bit today on
> running wires. Just
> wondering where everyone ran their nav
> light/strobe/comm and nav ant/elec
> trim..wires...getting up to about the baggage bins
> seems fairly elementary,
> but am wondering how you worked your way under the
> seats and to the panel.
> It seems as though you can go through the center or
> down the sides. I
> noticed the wing spar seems to have an oversized
> hole to run wires through,
> but I hate to plan on something when Im not sure.
> Did most folks run the
> wires up the side panels (above or below) the rudder
> cables? Just wondering
> as I dont want to run any wires that I may have to
> move later on.
>
> Thanks again....
>
> Kurt, OKC, OK
> RV6A QB
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque AN3-5 |
John Ammeter wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> >In reading Van's torque table. I see the AN3 column and the AN365 nut
> >column. From there what are the Nut-bolt size numbers. What does 8-36 mean?
> >10-32? 1/4 - 28? etc.....
> >I know the AN3-5 bolt is 3/16.
> >
>
If the '8-36' is mentioned in the same context as '10-32' & '1/4-28',
it's probably just a misprint for '8-32' which is a common size &
threads per inch for bolts in hardware store nomenclature.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Knight <knightair(at)lv.rmci.net> |
| Subject: | Knight Upholstery for RV |
RV Builders:
I have moved to Las Vegas. Please note my new telephone number and e-mail
address.
I have been in the upholstery business for 28 years and have been making
upholstery products for kitplanes for 16 years. I have interior kits
available for RV-4, RV-6, RV-6A, and RV-8. I also have cabin covers and
other items. I am the supplier of upholstery products for several kitplane
manufacturers. A list of other kitplane interior products available upon
request.
For more information, call Knight Aircraft Interiors, Inc., at (702)
207-6681 or e-mail me at knightair(at)lv.rmci.net. If you e- mail for
information, please mention either "Knight" or "Upholstery" in your
reference line so I can give your request my immediate attention. Photos
available upon request.
Sincerely,
KNIGHT AIRCRAFT INTERIORS, INC.
"Fly by Knight" Upholstery Products
Sam Knight
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Experimental Signage |
>
>Hi,
>
>On an RV-6 TIP-UP, can I put the "Experimental" sign on the underside of
>the forward canopy skin? It would be visible to anyone getting into the
>aircraft (canopy up), however it would not be visible when the canopy is
>closed.
>
>-Glenn Gordon
Several have been done thisway, including mine. The FAA approved it.
Have a wonderful Day!
Denny Harjehausen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rywessel(at)AOL.COM |
Listers-
I am in the process of planning my wiring. My idea is to use a rotary switch
to select pos1)taxi pos 2)landing + taxi and 3)pulse. This system would not
allow me to use the landing light without the taxi light. Am I giving up
something? If I were to simplify even more, is there a reason why the taxi
light and landing light cannot be simply ganged together?
thanks,
robin wessel
Tigard, OR
RV-6A finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence/twist |
kempthornes wrote:
>
>
> Finn wrote:
> > However, I talked with Ken Krueger at Van's and he was concerned by the
> > side-load (i.e. the rear spar pulling away from the fuselage).
>
> I believe that tail slides are not recommended in any of the RVs and I can't
> think of ***ANY*** other time when there would be a side load - pulling the
> rear spar connection away from the fuselage. The only significant loads on
> this bolt (pin?) are up and down loads IMHO. I have studied aerodynamics
> but I am strictly an amateur at it. I am, however, smartass enough to
> question anyone who can't explain to me how they arrive at their
> conclusions. So, let me ask you if Ken explained or if I should talk to
> him.
>
> I just want to know out of curiosity and so I will know how to design my own
> cross country racer!
>
> Hal Kempthorne
> RV6a N7HK
> "Make it fit" that is, "get a bigger hammer".
>
I'm not an aero engineer either, but here's the way it was explaned to
me.
As G-load goes up, the angle of attack is also going up. Lift is at
right angles to relative wind. At highest G-loads & angles of attack,
the lift vector is actually shifting toward the nose, because the
fuselage AOA goes up along with the wing. therefore, stress on the rear
attach fitting has a strong outward component as the wing tries to swing
forward (relative to the fuselage).
If this is incorrect, I hope better minds will correct me.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence/twist |
kempthornes wrote:
>
>
> Finn wrote:
> > However, I talked with Ken Krueger at Van's and he was concerned by the
> > side-load (i.e. the rear spar pulling away from the fuselage).
>
> I believe that tail slides are not recommended in any of the RVs and I can't
> think of ***ANY*** other time when there would be a side load - pulling the
> rear spar connection away from the fuselage. The only significant loads on
> this bolt (pin?) are up and down loads IMHO. I have studied aerodynamics
> but I am strictly an amateur at it. I am, however, smartass enough to
> question anyone who can't explain to me how they arrive at their
> conclusions. So, let me ask you if Ken explained or if I should talk to
> him.
>
> I just want to know out of curiosity and so I will know how to design my own
> cross country racer!
>
> Hal Kempthorne
> RV6a N7HK
> "Make it fit" that is, "get a bigger hammer".
>
Hal
Turn and climb = side load.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WORK BENCHES |
>
> Oh come on, Mike!
>
> This "great resource" is not too precious to answer a
> new guy's question. We all had to start somewhere and
> the questions of a beginner are just as important as
> those that come from a crusty builder on their
> finishing kit. If you don't like a question just hit
> the delete button like the rest of us.
No! No! You misunderstand. I simply was concerned that he was
determined _not_ to use the list resources, directly or archives or
notes. God knows I've shot off a question before without going to too
great an effort to do an archive search...
With the wealth of talent and experience available here, it would be a
shame _not_ use us _on purpose_!
Mike Thompson
Austin, Tx
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence/twist |
>
>> I am not sure exactly why. But as I understand it, the rear spar is
>> supposed to flex or pivot at the bolt joint when the wing flexes.
>
>I'm not sure why either, Tom. Someone at Van's told me this but didn't
>explain why to my satisfaction. When I asked if the bolt should be a "loose
>pin" (a structures technical term) they said no. Torque as with any bolt.
>I asked if this wouldn't either prevent flexing or cause wear and the answer
>was no to both. As I understood it, it has to be able to flex tho it never
>does. Huh??
>
>Why would it need to flex. One of you aerodynamicists???
>
>Hal Kempthorne
>RV6a N7HK
>
Well, I'm not a structural engineer, so one of those types would
probably be able to nit pick with the following answer. But here
goes anyway.
The RV wings are designed so that all the bending loads are carried
by the front spar. The rear spar is designed to just take the
drag/anti-drag loads, and the pitching moment loads (a cambered wing
develops a nose down pitching moment, which tries to rotate the wing
nose down). The rear spar attach uses a single bolt to ensure that
the rear spar doesn't carry any significant bending loads. Yes, it
is torqued, but rest assured that the joint would rotate if much load
was put on it (6 g at an aerobatic weight is a lot of load).
It would be possible to design the rear spar to carry bending loads,
but the designers task would be much more difficult. It is a real
trick to figure out what percentage of the bending loads would be
carried by each spar. If you screw up this prediction you end up
with wings coming off in service. It is much better to force all the
loads to go through one spar, because it is easy to predict the total
bending moment.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WORK BENCHES |
--- Knicholas2(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/26/2000 3:08:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> grobdriver(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> > You would waste this great resource out of, what - pride?
> > I hope when you have a question and you can't get the answer from
> > Will's notes, Frank's notes, the "Bunny" notes
>
> I am new here and just received my RV9 emp. kit. What are "Will's,
> Frank's
> and Bunny notes" and where on the web can I find them?
>
> Kim Nicholas
> Already overwhelmed with RV9....
Hi Kim,
Blooper on my part - the fact that you are working on a -9 got by me.
The notes are specific to RV-6's. They might be of generic help in
terms of technique, but not in the way they have been for me (and a
bunch of others...)
And regarding your being overwhelmed - remember that you are _not_
building an airplane! You are _not_ building an airplane!
Today you are building a _horizontal stabilizer_. Tomorrow you will
build a _vertical stabilizer_. The day after you will build a
rudder...
After you have fashioned all the material Van's sent you into
components, by happenstance you will have everything you need to
assemble an airplane!
Conquer each part separately. Celebrate each success! Look at the
trees, forget (for now) the forest.
An archive search may turn up some -9 web sites that will help, too.
And there are more and more -9 builders all the time.
Good luck!!
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aplology (Work Benches Thread) |
--- RE Miller wrote:
>
> Listers
>
> My apologies for the misinformed and inflammatory
> comments I made earlier. Sorry to Mike Thompson for
> the flame.
>
> Rob Miller
Simple misunderstanding, Rob. Forget it.
- Mike
====
Michael E. Thompson (Grobdriver(at)yahoo.com)
Austin, TX, USA
RV-6 in progress, N140RV (Reserved)
EX-AX1 Sub Hunter, P-3 (B/B-TACMOD/C) Orion Aircrew,
PP-G,ASEL, Motorglider Driver and Unlimited Air Race Nut!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: 0-360/airbox/rv4/bendix injector/help |
Hi Carey,
Just a couple of comments. First, I ended up manufacturing a new top
plate for my air cleaner to move it to the right (sitting in the cockpit) to
avoid the interference. The other thing to look for is the mixture arm should
be marked with ICO for idle cut off and R for rich. My arm rotates below the
pivot point not above as the schematics in the Lycoming manual suggest.
Cheers
Tom Brown RV4 - flying 56 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Flight Time |
Gentlemen,
I just thought I would offer fellow RV builders some flight time in my
RV4 to anyone out there that needs their RV grin reinforced. It was six and
1/2 years between my first RV flight and when I made my maiden voyage. There
were times when my spirits sagged and I wondered why I was continuing with
the process. You make so many sacrifices along the journey, I often wondered
whether it was it going to be worth it when it was all done.
When I was getting ready to test fly my airplane, I looked around for
another RV4 builder who could help get me familiar with the flight
characteristics and offer some stick time. The former was easy but I was
unsuccessful with the latter.
With the O-360 and constant speed prop, I'll fly people up to 250
pounds. Any bigger and you probably wouldn't fit in the back. I don't have
dual pedals or engine controls. Just the standard two stick arrangement.
I am located on the East Coast at the Orange County Airport. 55 miles
north west of New York City. If I can be of help to anyone, please contact
me.
Tom Brown RV4 flying
RV4Brown(at)aol.com
(914) 783-2518
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re:Prop Governor Cable Bracket |
Hi Richard,
Thanks for the reply. I too enlarged the slot during the installation
process but you are right, I can't begin to get my hands in there to do much
with all the other equipment I choose to install around it. My prop cable
rotates downward as it extends toward the full rpm position and contacts the
low rpm stop. If the bracket could be rotated clockwise 5 degrees, the
problem wouldn't exist. It is going to be a bear of a job to do now. The
thought of pulling the engine to make this change is not exciting. I may
just choose to live with a little less than max horsepower.
Cheers,
Tom Brown
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM |
Hi Tom,
Thank you for the response! I am using a standard heated pitot tube
supplied by Mr. Gretz. The pitot tube is located on the left wing in close
proximity to where the original aluminum tube pitot was installed. I had to
move it away from the wing spar to facilitate the mounting plate. I have two
static ports on each side of the aircraft located where I interpreted Van's
instructions. I am estimating that the ports are installed about two feet
forward of the rear stabilizer centered on the side panel.
I guess a slightly different form of my question would be as follows: If
you accept the mathematical calculation of determining the wind component and
the resultant airspeed using the three turn GPS method. ( I have found the
wind component to be repeatable using and three of four 90 degree turns and
at various airspeeds on the same day), Then does the RV4 really stall at 60
mph airspeed rather than 50? I am fairly confident of knowing how much weight
I had at each location in the airplane when I performed my tests. The slowest
airspeed I determined using the GPS method was 65 mph indicated. In this
range, the airspeed indicator the correction dial cannot be used for
pressure altitude or outside temperature. The data from that particular day
was Indicated airspeed 65 mph, altitude 5500 feet, Barometric pressure 30.8
inches, outside air temperature at altitude was 58 degrees, GPS corrected
speed of 76 mph Data used for GPS 65K, 45K, 66K. aircraft weight 1497 less
a couple gallons of fuel burn say 1470 lbms. I am ashamed to admit I can't
find my old flight computer to determine a corrected airspeed indication.
Cheers,
Tom Brown RV4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re:Flight testing - Oil pressure/Temperature Changes |
Gentlemen,
In my flight testing, I found this interesting and a little perplexing.
Perhaps there are some wise experienced folks who may be able to shed some
light on the subject.
The oil pressure in my Bart Lablonde O-360 had been running at 60 psig in
cruise. Oil temperatures were normally between 180 and 190F. I contacted Bart
Lablonde to give him a little feedback about his engine and also because the
initial testing at his shop had yielded a pressure of 80 psig. Bart
recommended making some changes to the oil pressure shooting for a target
value of 80 psi in cruise.
For those of you that don't have a clue like me of how to do this, the
oil pressure regulator on the O-360 is located above #3 cylinder near the
engine mounting bold. It looks like a small cone and is safety wired to the
case. Inside there is a metal ball and spring that controls the pressure.
Some adjusters don't half to be removed but provide for an external
adjustment. Bart told me that you are allowed up to fifteen washers behind
the spring, but that he uses springs that typically only need five washers to
achieve the 80 psi. He offered to send a stiffer spring if needed.
I opened up the pressure regulator. I found five washers installed and
added four more. Bart said he has found that each washer adds about four psi
to the reading. My net result is the oil pressure now runs at 72 to 78 psi in
cruise depending on the temperature of the oil.
Here is the interesting part. Prior to increasing the oil pressure, my
oil temperatures were running 190 F in cruise with ambient temperatures of
80F. When the ambient dropped below 70 F I would have to close the oil door
slightly to get the oil temperature to come up to 180F. The thermostat on
the temperature controller is stamped 85C.
When I changed the oil pressure, I also cleaned the oil screen, washed
off the thermostat with a degreaser, and hand wiped the oil temperature
probe. With subsequent flight testing, my oil temperatures are now running
at 200F with the oil cooler door wide open. Ambient temperature was 70F. It
creeps up a little to 203 when flying in a slow flight configuration. Bart
had told me to use 210 as a target for the upper oil temperature limit.
My question is why would changing the oil pressure change the steady
state oil operating temperature? Or did washing the thermostat just cause it
to operate at a different temperature? I just rinsed the outside of it. I
didn't soak it or anything like that.
Is there an oil flow schematic or one line diagram depicting the oil flow
for the Lycoming available somewhere. The operators manual does not include
any type of diagram like this.
Tom Brown RV4 56 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re:Feedback on Lasar Ignition Problems |
Gentlemen,
I want to thank those that responded to my post a couple of weeks ago. I
had not responded because I wasn't able to make contact with the folks at
Unison as they were traveling for a while.
I was having problems with intermittent operation of the Lasar ignition
and was experiencing a larger mag drop than I thought was normal - 160 to 190
rpm. I was also getting backfiring at reduced power and during taxi when hot.
Harry at Unison asked me to change out the thermocouple interconnection
to a soldered joint rather than the interlocking hand connection supplied
with the kit. He also thought that the mag drop may be caused by the rotor
voltage in mag not being quite strong enough. he mentioned that they were
working on an upgrade for their systems and that it would probably affect
many of Van's customers.
With that Harry offered to send me two mew magnetos, loan me a timing
device for the installation, and also a computer cable to interface with my
PC to trouble shoot the device if necessary. He also stated that they would
have a representative in White Plains later this month and that if I needed
help, they would be able to assist me. IT DOESN'T GET ANY BETTER THAN THAT!
I made the changes to the temperature probe connection as suggested. The
Unison hasn't turned off in the three hours flown except during large power
reductions and mag checks. The unit turns back on when power is brought up
to a normal condition.
I had also removed, cleaned and rotated my spark plugs at the same time I
made the changes above. With the exception of the number two cylinder which
the lower plug was slightly wet with oil the plugs looked sooty. After
cleaning the plugs, my rpm drop has been reduced to about a hundred rpm on
both the left and right mag. The drop in rpm noticed when the Lasar shut off
has also been reduced to about 20 rpm.
At this point, I will go ahead and change the mags out but I must say
that if the unit and engine had previously performed the way it has for the
last three hours, I would have accepted this as normal.
I have started to add TCP to my fuel about ten hours ago. Since that
time, the tendency to backfire at idle has been reduced. The engine still
backfires in cruise when the throttle is idled. In this condition, the Lasar
is off and the engine is running on the magnetos.
I do think that Unison is going to stand behind their product and the
service offered to me I would call outstanding!
Cheers,
Tom Brown RV4 flying 56 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Blank <blanks01(at)luey.redars.ca.boeing.com> |
| Subject: | Ride for some 100LL b4 it's gone? |
Hello all, Long time lurker First time rv-list poster.
I'm going to try to attend Van's Homecoming on Sunday
after I get off work and was wondering if I could make
a deal with someone for a ride in their rv sometime.
I did'nt know if that kind of thing went on during this
event or not but thought I would ask since it looks to be
a big gathering of beautiful RV's. As far as my background
I'm 17 credits (240hrs.) from my airframe certification,
Still a student pilot at 60hrs. and work at Boeing 3rd shift
for the REDARS/BOLD Competence Center. I guess that would put
me between the Steve D. that does the nice badges and the
padded cell the other Steve J. seems to headed for ;
)
Please respond to me off-list if you can help my need of a
RV-grin fix and hopefully I didn't abuse my posting privleges.
Later,
Steve Blank, blanks01(at)luey.redars.ca.boeing.com
Seattle, WA.
RV-6a wings just started
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 HS Front Spar !&* |
#$%%@$%@R%
In a message dated 8/27/00 12:22:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
bchesteen(at)planetc.com writes:
<< Just enough to let the part rest without a gap >>
Yes!
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, working on canopy installation
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A down SoCAL |
In a message dated 8/27/00 6:40:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
rv6flier(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< Larry reported that he and Marlene were both ok and did not have any
injuries. >>
Thank God!
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, working on canopy installation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring lights |
>
> Listers-
>
> I am in the process of planning my wiring. My idea is to use a rotary
switch
> to select pos1)taxi pos 2)landing + taxi and 3)pulse. This system would
not
> allow me to use the landing light without the taxi light. Am I giving up
> something? If I were to simplify even more, is there a reason why the taxi
> light and landing light cannot be simply ganged together?
>
> thanks,
>
> robin wessel
> Tigard, OR
> RV-6A finishing
>
Robin...
Since you are one of us who chose to build a "nosedragger," I see no reason
why you need a taxi light which is set to a different angle than the landing
light. Therefore, why not have them both on at the same time? Using a
Gall's flasher, I wired my two lights as OFF-ON-FLASH, where both lights are
on in the middle position. I used a toggle, but I'm sure you could do the
same with a rotary switch. There's a wiring diagram on my website using a
switch I bought from Bob Nuckolls.
Jerry Carter
Memphis, TN
My RV-8A website:
http://rv8asite.homestead.com/mainpage.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WORK BENCHES |
can any one tell me if it would give me any more hp to run single exh.pipes
over two into one on a o-290
butch rv3
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
>
>Hi Tom,
>
> Thank you for the response! I am using a standard heated pitot tube
>supplied by Mr. Gretz. The pitot tube is located on the left wing in close
>proximity to where the original aluminum tube pitot was installed. I had to
>move it away from the wing spar to facilitate the mounting plate. I have two
>static ports on each side of the aircraft located where I interpreted Van's
>instructions. I am estimating that the ports are installed about two feet
>forward of the rear stabilizer centered on the side panel.
>
> I guess a slightly different form of my question would be as follows: If
>you accept the mathematical calculation of determining the wind component and
>the resultant airspeed using the three turn GPS method. ( I have found the
>wind component to be repeatable using and three of four 90 degree turns and
>at various airspeeds on the same day), Then does the RV4 really stall at 60
>mph airspeed rather than 50? I am fairly confident of knowing how much weight
>I had at each location in the airplane when I performed my tests. The slowest
>airspeed I determined using the GPS method was 65 mph indicated. In this
>range, the airspeed indicator the correction dial cannot be used for
>pressure altitude or outside temperature. The data from that particular day
>was Indicated airspeed 65 mph, altitude 5500 feet, Barometric pressure 30.8
>inches, outside air temperature at altitude was 58 degrees, GPS corrected
>speed of 76 mph Data used for GPS 65K, 45K, 66K. aircraft weight 1497 less
>a couple gallons of fuel burn say 1470 lbms. I am ashamed to admit I can't
>find my old flight computer to determine a corrected airspeed indication.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Tom Brown RV4 Flying
Tom,
I recommend that you try out Doug Gray's method of calculating TAS
from GPS data. You need GPS ground speed and track from three runs.
They don't have to be at 90 degree headings - you can use any heading
for the runs, but you'll get the best accuracy if the headings are
spaced well apart. 90 to 120 degrees apart would be ideal.
His spreadsheet and explanations are on my web site. Go to:
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rvlinks.html
Jump to the Flight Test section.
I ran your data through his spreadsheet, and played with the track
values until I got the heading calculations to be 90 deg apart (I am
assuming that you did your runs at 90 deg apart, although you didn't
say). Based on that, I got a TAS of 63 kt, or 72 mph. I then ran
that number through my spreadsheet to determine static source error
(also available on my web site). I had to assume a pressure altitude
(it would be better if you actually measured one, by putting the
altimeter to 29.92 for the test). I ended up with an airspeed error
of only 1.5 kt. I did this pretty quickly, so I might have screwed
something up. And I had to make a lot of assumptions, so that might
have affected the results too.
Your airspeeds might not be too far off. Contact me directly if you
want to discuss any details. Once we get to the bottom of this, you
can post a followup to the list.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cockpit stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence/twist |
In a message dated 8/27/00 2:39:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
cengland(at)netdoor.com writes:
> I'm not an aero engineer either, but here's the way it was explaned to
> me.
>
> As G-load goes up, the angle of attack is also going up. Lift is at
> right angles to relative wind. At highest G-loads & angles of attack,
> the lift vector is actually shifting toward the nose, because the
> fuselage AOA goes up along with the wing. therefore, stress on the rear
> attach fitting has a strong outward component as the wing tries to swing
> forward (relative to the fuselage).
>
> If this is incorrect, I hope better minds will correct me.
>
> Charlie
Charlie,
My sheepskin sez I am an aero engineer, but worked on gas turbines all my
working days. You are exactly right regarding the lift vector and the rear
spar joint at the fuselage is definitely in tension!
Bernie Kerr, 6A 50 hours, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | drill bit question |
i gota few extra $ this month and already own a cheap $30 set of drills (1/16
to 1/2 by 64ths) drill bits.
i am wanting to order more, i.e. by number and possibly letter sizes. three
questions:
1. is the high dollar bits that are cobalt and meet nas 907 type j specs
really worth it? (avery)
2. are the wire size-letter bits used that much? i don't even see letter
sizes offered in avery cat.
i am seeing a variety of sets in all the other tool cats. and not sure if i
am throwing money away. i even found a 119 piece set at harbor (all 3 sets of
sizes) for $40. and $60 for the titanium coated.
3. is the titanium worth it?
thanx, guys, bob in ark doin wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 0-360/airbox/rv4/bendix injector/help |
In a message dated 8/27/2000 2:41:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM writes:
<< My arm rotates below the
pivot point not above as the schematics in the Lycoming manual suggest.
>>
My too, I think I may cut a 3 inches from the center of the top plate and
rivet the two pieces back together with a doubler. That should give me the
clearance, now I need to find a new(smaller) filter to fit the much narrower
FAB. I look a some photo's of a 4 at S&N and he had put two 90 degrees bends
in his arm, but I still think his arm rotated below the injector. He also
had a much narrower box than what Van's supplies. Thanks for the suggestion,
and let me know if you have more.
Blue Skies,
Carey Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Flight Time |
In a message dated 8/27/2000 2:34:01 PM Central Daylight Time,
RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM writes:
<< I am located on the East Coast at the Orange County Airport. 55 miles
north west of New York City. If I can be of help to anyone, please contact
me. >>
Hey Tom,
I used to do a lot of skydiving near Gardiner, NY when I was on the Golden
Knights. If you have nothing better to do, drop in and make one. I know the
DZ owner, Billy Richards, he has quite an air force.
Blue Skies,
Carey Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Exhaust Systems, Straight Stack or Crossover? was: WORK BENCHES |
--- DBBECK1(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> can any one tell me if it would give me any more hp to run single
> exh.pipes
> over two into one on a o-290
Cross-over exhaust increases engine performance over straight stacks.
Manifolding the exhaust of cylinders #1 and #2 together and #3 and #4
together will yield more horspower.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Stribling's" <bbattery(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | Re: drill bit question |
> i gota few extra $ this month and already own a cheap $30 set of drills
(1/16
> to 1/2 by 64ths) drill bits.
>
I ordered in 6 cobalt #21 and 40 drill bits, 3# 21 6" and 12" and 3# 40 6
and 12" bits I still have them all except for 2 # 21 that I broke and 1 each
of the shorts that are dull you may also need a "d" and a #11 drill if I
remember right The rest of the set will probable never get used..... cobalt
stays sharp a long time
Ken S. still waiting for finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Re:Prop Governor Cable Bracket
Thread-Index: AcAQXrRgNnJ0ifVoSgqTfARHct3iOAANGwia
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Prop Governor Cable Bracket |
Yes, the slot in the bracket is not wide enough for the prop cable to
pass through the rotation of the governor arm...it will make contact
and the cure is to make the slot wider by /8" to 3/16". The entire
engine does not have to be removed to fool with the governor bracket,
you can easily remove the whole governor and work on the bracket that
way. Just make sure there is no oil in the engine since it will drain
when the governor is removed. The BEST solution is to make the
governor bracket work correctly with the cable and bracket before the
engine is mounted.
I will let you listers out there contemplating that $1200 purchase know
that there's a secret to not spending all that money...I have a total of
$300 in my governor. The secret? Find a Woodward model 210195
governor. My engine came off a Beech Travel-Air and that was the
governor that came with the engine. This particular model is very
plentiful on the used market since it is inteded for a feathering
installation, and to make it work for a non-feathering application (ie
O360/Hartzell) all it takes is reversing two plugs inside the governor.
Supposedly the overhaul shops have piles of these things and will
practically give them away. I had mine overhauled by John at Southwest
Aero (check the yeller pages) and all AD's were complied with; he
reversed the plugs and mounted a control arm off of the 210776 (Van's
model). Van's bracket would not work with this model since the hole
pattern is slightly different, but I used Van's bracket as a model to
make my own. Once had my bracket on the way I wanted, I sent the
bracket/governor back to John to re-calibrate it to be sure everything
was correct. The other difference between the older 210195 ande the
210776 is the 195 has a smaller pilot valve which should make the prop
react more slowly than the 776; I haven't noticed any sluggishness in
abrubt pitch changes. I had to spend a bit of time to get it to work,
but it works great. Easily outweighed the $900 cost difference.
Sometimes it pays to be a cheap-skate.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O360C/S 23.8 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence/twist |
Yes, in retrospect I should have questioned him further. It appeared that he
wasn't familiar with the RV-3 and it's evolution. Any drag induced by wing, flap
or aileron would push the rear wing spar material into the fuselage material
sandwiched between the fuselage angle and bar. I'm actually no longer concerned
with even filling the old hole. Worst case is rear spar slipping up into old
hole. In any case, I have plenty of spar material both inside and below the
current (old) hole. ... Ok, I just read a couple of postings explaining what may
cause rear wing spar wanting to pull away from fuselage -- I'll add the 1/8" x
1" x ? bar, poprivited to the rear spar material.
What I need now is someone's intelligent analysis and optimal solution to proper
positioning of the right wing incidence.
I'm now leaning away from setting the right wing midpoint to 1 degree, and
instead setting right wing outer edge incidence to that of the left wing's outer
edge. I should then be able to adjust right flap down to increase the right
wing's root section "incidence" to 1 degree.
Thanks to all responders so far on the list! Seems that a combination of all
suggestions may be the best solution.
Finn
kempthornes wrote:
>
> Finn wrote:
> > However, I talked with Ken Krueger at Van's and he was concerned by the
> > side-load (i.e. the rear spar pulling away from the fuselage).
>
> I believe that tail slides are not recommended in any of the RVs and I can't
> think of ***ANY*** other time when there would be a side load - pulling the
> rear spar connection away from the fuselage. The only significant loads on
> this bolt (pin?) are up and down loads IMHO. I have studied aerodynamics
> but I am strictly an amateur at it. I am, however, smartass enough to
> question anyone who can't explain to me how they arrive at their
> conclusions. So, let me ask you if Ken explained or if I should talk to
> him.
Why pay for something you could get for free?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clayfly(at)libertybay.com.Sun, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0005330711@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Sun,
27 Aug 2000 20:28:34.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Alternator Question |
Fellow Listers,
During my most recent engine ground test my amp meter showed about 12 amps after
the
engine started. Over a period of several minutes this declined gradually until
it indicated -2
amps. During this engine run I did not have any lights or avionics on. When it
got to -2 I
turned the fuel pump off, no change in the amp meter. I turned on avionics and
still no
change.
What does this mean? From my limited understanding I would assume that the 12
amps
showed that the alternator was recharging the battery. But why would it decline
to -2 amps?
Shouldn't the amps remain as high as the amps required to run the avionics and
lights?
Shouldn't the amps increase when I turn on avionics? Why would I ever show negative
amps?
Thanks for your help.
Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X, Inspection in the morning
Indiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: drill bit question |
Bob,
I believe that when it comes to cutting tools, it never pays to buy cheap!
I have a set of letter, decimal and number drills and I have used all three
kinds in building my 6A (almost done!). The letter drills came in handy for
close tolerance holes where a reamer would have been the tool of choice but
I didn't have one. I have over 50 drills in my "dull drill" drawer now --
mostly all #41, 40 and 30 in standard jobber's length and 6 inch. I have
been going through lots of them lately because I was drilling fiberglass and
stainless steel (firewall).
If you knew exactly which drills you needed, you could save buying the whole
sets. I never knew ahead of time which ones I'd need.
You can't go wrong buying from Avery -- he's good people!
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O320A1A Hartzell 0.0 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
-----Original Message-----
From: Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM <Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM>
Date: Sunday, August 27, 2000 9:08 PM
Subject: RV-List: drill bit question
>
>i gota few extra $ this month and already own a cheap $30 set of drills
(1/16
>to 1/2 by 64ths) drill bits.
>i am wanting to order more, i.e. by number and possibly letter sizes. three
>questions:
>1. is the high dollar bits that are cobalt and meet nas 907 type j specs
>really worth it? (avery)
>2. are the wire size-letter bits used that much? i don't even see letter
>sizes offered in avery cat.
>i am seeing a variety of sets in all the other tool cats. and not sure if i
>am throwing money away. i even found a 119 piece set at harbor (all 3 sets
of
>sizes) for $40. and $60 for the titanium coated.
> 3. is the titanium worth it?
>thanx, guys, bob in ark doin wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:Performance Testing |
Hey Bruce,
hows the performance testing going?
Bruce Stewart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PLTDBEEZER(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: 0-360/airbox/rv4/bendix injector/help |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tall man's option in RV-8 |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
Subject: RV-List: Tall man's option in RV-8
>I'm posting this for a friend of mine that is 6'8" w/ a 38" inseam. He
tried
>to sit in an RV-8 today but no way. The height is no problem, only
legroom.
>Does anyone on the list know what the mods are for the tall man's
option?
>Even better, does anyone know how many extra inches is gained?
>Are
>RV-8
The tall option for the RV-8 adds 2 inches in leg room which equates to a
huge amount of change for knee clearance at the panel.
He should also verify that the peddles as installed were done correctly
and that the were adjusted to the forward most possible position.
He also should be sure that he is sitting at the proper height (at Van's
we believe that means "as high as possible") because as you site higher
it also moves you back slightly.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Prop Governor Bracket |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
Subject: RV-List: Re:Prop Governor Cable Bracket
Gentlemen,
I am using the prop governor cable bracket sold by Vans and a
Woodward
governor on an O-360. The engine will only turn up to 2630 at full
throttle
because of an interference between the governor cable and the low rpm
governor stop. I know you can loosen the screws on the back of the
governor
and rotate the assembly for position. However, this doesn't change the
position of the bracket relative to the mounting screw holes. In my
opinion,
the holes in the bracket need to be rotated counterclockwise about 1/8"
to
allow proper cable alignment.
I know it is the interference that is causing the problem because I
can
visually see the contact of the cable with governor stops and the
governor
does not reach the high RPM stop. In flight if you push on the Prop rpm
level the cable will flex and the engine goes to full speed.
Has anyone else had this problem and what did you do about it? It is
going to be a real challenge at this point to access the area to effect
any
type of change. The only thing I can think of if to attempt to remove
the
cable and put a slight bend in the solid shaft portion of the cable. I
may be
able to get the governor to remove and modify the bracket.
Tom Brown RV4 flying - missing a few ponies on takeoff and climb
I am pretty sure it is mentioned in the bracket instruction sheet, the
gov. has another set of screw holes that you can position too. If you
remove all of the screws and rotate the retaining ring slightly you can
reposition it a small amount to the new set of holes. I don't think this
is going to help from what you describe as your problem though. What is
likely the problem is a lack of cable travel...the cables we use do not
have quite enough travel for the throw on the gov. arm. Since we never
need to pull the RPM control all the way back for normal operations you
should adjust everything so that you can just reach the high RPM position
stop on the gov.. Then let the low RPM travel limit to what is
available. Also, be aware that you should use the adjustment procedure
in the Hartzel manual for setting the High RPM stops (limit). Never make
any adjustments on the gov. adjusting screws until having done the high
and low pitch adjustments on the propeller.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Running Wires... |
If you utilize the existing hole you'll have to slot the main spar web to
allow wing installation. I talked to vans awhile back and was told that the
hole could be duplicated for the opposite wing allowing two holes. I've done
just that keeping RF wires in one hole and current carrying wires in the
other. Also you could put a grommet forward of the spar in the side of the
fuse for running pitot-static tubing and wires behind the fuel tanks to
their final destination. .
Steven DiNieri
Fellow Listers,
Hello once again!! My archive search didnt come up with much so I
thought I would pick your brains a bit today on running wires. Just
wondering where everyone ran their nav light/strobe/comm and nav ant/elec
trim..wires...getting up to about the baggage bins seems fairly elementary,
but am wondering how you worked your way under the seats and to the panel.
It seems as though you can go through the center or down the sides. I
noticed the wing spar seems to have an oversized hole to run wires through,
but I hate to plan on something when Im not sure. Did most folks run the
wires up the side panels (above or below) the rudder cables? Just wondering
as I dont want to run any wires that I may have to move later on.
Thanks again....
Kurt, OKC, OK
RV6A QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Flight testing - Oil pressure/Temperature Changes |
Tom,
One rule of thermodynamics is, the faster the flow through a heat
exchanger (your
oil cooler) the less efficient it is. Just a guess, but could it be
there is an increase in oil flow through your oil cooler because the
relief valve is
now closed more than it was before.
A question for you, what make and model oil cooler do you have.
RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> In my flight testing, I found this interesting and a little perplexing.
> Perhaps there are some wise experienced folks who may be able to shed some
> light on the subject.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring lights |
> I am in the process of planning my wiring. My idea is to use a rotary
switch
> to select pos1)taxi pos 2)landing + taxi and 3)pulse. This system would
not
> allow me to use the landing light without the taxi light. Am I giving up
> something? If I were to simplify even more, is there a reason why the taxi
> light and landing light cannot be simply ganged together?
Sounds good to me. The only thing you're giving up is redundancy if for some
reason one light shorts and blows the fuse. I weighed the risks here and
decided I was comfortable with just have one on-off switch for both lights
(no wig-wag, yet). After all, no landing light should only be an
inconvenience, not an emergency (you did practice no light night landings in
primary training didn't you? :-) I plan to install a wig-wag and replace the
toggle with a 3 position toggle (down off, middle wig-wag, up on), which
will be pretty much the same as you're talking about.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~125 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Flight Time |
Hi Carey,
Boy you scared me there for a minute. I thought you might be one of the
skydivers up there that might have recognized my airplane. I have been
zooming up and down the valley north or Orange for the past 40 hours. The
folks at Gardiner jump about two miles to the east of my flight path. It
still sends a chill up my spine when I first see them under canopy. The old
West Point airport has been turned into a bird sanctuary. Some of the acro
guys were really upset because they took away their practice box.
I thought I would mention that I only had to shift the airbox to the
right about a half an inch. I did this by making a new top plate. The
original fiberglass box and airfilter assembly was used as supplied. I then
cocked the nose of the air inlet to the left to center it on the front of the
cowling scoop. I am not registering any perceivable drop in MP pressure
through the airbox. MP is very close to BP at takeoff power.
How many jumps did you make with the Golden Nights? That's quite an
accomplishment to run with that crowd. From one of those who has watched
from a far, I thank you!
Cheers,
Tom Brown
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David & Betty Burton <dburton(at)foxinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: drill bit question |
Bob, I'd buy a handful of the drill bits in the sizes that you use a lot of,
#30s etc. Buy high speed steel. They are cheap and if you want, throw them out
when they get dull. For the aluminum drilling we are doing, the cobalt drill
bits probably aren't worth the money. It's nice to have the number drills, they
get used for drilling the right sized holes before you tap for threads. I bought
a set from Harbor Freight and they work great. They were really cheap, and they
are so nice they look like they could have been made by Sterret. They were made
in the USA and the storage box looks identical to what Sears sells. With Harbor
Freight though you never know what you might get for quality, but their tool are
so cheap it hardly matters. I've been happy with 99% of what I've purchased from
them. I wouldn't buy the titanium coated drill bits though if it were me. I
don't see much advantage for the use we give them.
I don't know how many people sharpen their drill bits when they get dull, I
always have. A machinist is always making new cutting tools and sharpening the
old ones. (And living close to the Boeing Surplus store doesn't hurt either!)
Dave Burton
RV6(A probably)
Seattle,
See you all at the Homecoming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Ludwig" <ludwig(at)azstarnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Question |
Clay,
The ammeter, if wired correctly, indicates the amount of charge the battery
is receiving - not how much of an electrical load there is on the system.
Turning electrical devices on or off will not cause an increase in the
ammeter if it's wired properly. Regardless, the -2 amp reading means
something is wrong. It means the battery is seeing a 2 amp discharge for
some reason. The +12 amps means the alternator/regulator are probably
working, but I'd suspect something is wired incorectly. Even after a
several hour run, you should see a slight positive charge on the ammeter.
Good luck,
- Bill in Tucson
>Fellow Listers,
>During my most recent engine ground test my amp meter showed about 12 amps
after the
>engine started. Over a period of several minutes this declined gradually
until it indicated -2
>amps. During this engine run I did not have any lights or avionics on.
When it got to -2 I
>turned the fuel pump off, no change in the amp meter. I turned on avionics
and still no
>change.
>
>What does this mean? From my limited understanding I would assume that the
12 amps
>showed that the alternator was recharging the battery. But why would it
decline to -2 amps?
>Shouldn't the amps remain as high as the amps required to run the avionics
and lights?
>Shouldn't the amps increase when I turn on avionics? Why would I ever show
negative
>amps?
>
>Thanks for your help.
>
>Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X, Inspection in the morning
>Indiana
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Question |
Hi Clay,
The readings you are seeing aren't right. Check your wiring to the amp
probe or your computer. Something must have come loose.
Tom Brown
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob DiMeo - Oracle <dimeob(at)powertel.com.au> |
| Subject: | Alternator Question |
Clay,
If you put a load on the system (Landing lights or pitot heat) and the
meter didn't go any more negative, I'd suspect the meter.
Put a volt meter on the battery and see if you are getting 13+ volts when
the ammeter is giving you the -2. If so, it confirms it's the meter. Either
mark it or replace it. Me; I'd put in a battery voltage meter. I've put an
STCd battery voltage monitor in my Comanche and never bother with the very
hard to read, out of the way ammeter any more.
Regards,
Bob
> ----------
> From: clayfly(at)libertybay.com.Sun
> Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 01:33 PM
> To: RV List
> Subject: RV-List: Alternator Question
>
>
> Fellow Listers,
> During my most recent engine ground test my amp meter showed about 12 amps
> after the
> engine started. Over a period of several minutes this declined gradually
> until it indicated -2
> amps. During this engine run I did not have any lights or avionics on.
> When it got to -2 I
> turned the fuel pump off, no change in the amp meter. I turned on
> avionics and still no
> change.
>
> What does this mean? From my limited understanding I would assume that
> the 12 amps
> showed that the alternator was recharging the battery. But why would it
> decline to -2 amps?
> Shouldn't the amps remain as high as the amps required to run the avionics
> and lights?
> Shouldn't the amps increase when I turn on avionics? Why would I ever
> show negative
> amps?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X, Inspection in the morning
> Indiana
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting below Baggage Compartment Floors |
> Another possibility is to build an access cover in the baggage floor for
the
> power supply with a doubler for the mounting screws and nutplates--but
mount
> the power supply on the cover, not the floor. That way when you remove
the
> cover, you also would be removing the power supply for access. I plan on
> doing mine this way.
That's what I did. I cut the floorboard on that side in half and riveted the
aft portion in per the plans, and added a double with nutplates at the
joint, with nutplates under the ribs around the sides and front, so only the
fwd half of the floor on that side is removable. The power supply sits
upside down, screwed to the removable floor piece (with a doubler plate)
with four low profile washer-head screws. Installed the ELT in there too,
attached to the rib.
There is the disadvantage that I need to use a screwriver to get to the ELT.
Thought about using camlocks but the baggage floor is structural so I
figured that wouldn't be a good idea.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~125 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Question |
Bill I certainly have been wrong before but I don't believe that
is correct. I think that an amp meter well tell how much load is
being put on the system. Mine does in my airplane and also the
one in my 67 Camaro well show an increase as I put more load
on the system. If I turn on the lights etc. amp reading increases.
Jerry S
Bill Ludwig wrote:
>
>
> Clay,
>
> The ammeter, if wired correctly, indicates the amount of charge the battery
> is receiving - not how much of an electrical load there is on the system.
> Turning electrical devices on or off will not cause an increase in the
> ammeter if it's wired properly. Regardless, the -2 amp reading means
> something is wrong. It means the battery is seeing a 2 amp discharge for
> some reason. The +12 amps means the alternator/regulator are probably
> working, but I'd suspect something is wired incorectly. Even after a
> several hour run, you should see a slight positive charge on the ammeter.
>
> Good luck,
>
> - Bill in Tucson
>
> >Fellow Listers,
> >During my most recent engine ground test my amp meter showed about 12 amps
> after the
> >engine started. Over a period of several minutes this declined gradually
> until it indicated -2
> >amps. During this engine run I did not have any lights or avionics on.
> When it got to -2 I
> >turned the fuel pump off, no change in the amp meter. I turned on avionics
> and still no
> >change.
> >
> >What does this mean? From my limited understanding I would assume that the
> 12 amps
> >showed that the alternator was recharging the battery. But why would it
> decline to -2 amps?
> >Shouldn't the amps remain as high as the amps required to run the avionics
> and lights?
> >Shouldn't the amps increase when I turn on avionics? Why would I ever show
> negative
> >amps?
> >
> >Thanks for your help.
> >
> >Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X, Inspection in the morning
> >Indiana
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Baldwin" <n728p(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Knight Upholstery for RV |
Sam,
Can you give me an idea what you charge to build 2 seats for an RV6. Need 2
stick boots, one booster cushion, lower back support in both seats , also
confor foam ( not sure of the spelling ). We would be interested in cloth
only. Also interested in slightly padded side panels and arm rests with
pads. I understand you cannot give me a solid price but I am trying to get
an idea of the cost. We are ready to have some seats made.
Thanks in advance,
Scott Baldwin
N728p RV-6 ( finishing a million details )
>From: Sam Knight <knightair(at)lv.rmci.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Knight Upholstery for RV
>Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 10:32:11 -0700 by mx20.rmci.net with SMTP; 27 Aug
>
>
>RV Builders:
>
>I have moved to Las Vegas. Please note my new telephone number and e-mail
>address.
>
>I have been in the upholstery business for 28 years and have been making
>upholstery products for kitplanes for 16 years. I have interior kits
>available for RV-4, RV-6, RV-6A, and RV-8. I also have cabin covers and
>other items. I am the supplier of upholstery products for several kitplane
>manufacturers. A list of other kitplane interior products available upon
>request.
>
>For more information, call Knight Aircraft Interiors, Inc., at (702)
>207-6681 or e-mail me at knightair(at)lv.rmci.net. If you e- mail for
>information, please mention either "Knight" or "Upholstery" in your
>reference line so I can give your request my immediate attention. Photos
>available upon request.
>
>Sincerely,
>KNIGHT AIRCRAFT INTERIORS, INC.
>"Fly by Knight" Upholstery Products
>
>Sam Knight
>
>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ray sheffield" <1052a(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: drill bit question |
Ken,
Suggest you buy a number size American made high speed drill set. I scrap
dull bits
and buy new of the size I use most.
try travers tool supply.
ray
rv-6a flying
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Stribling's" <bbattery(at)bendcable.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: drill bit question
>
>
> > i gota few extra $ this month and already own a cheap $30 set of drills
> (1/16
> > to 1/2 by 64ths) drill bits.
> >
>
> I ordered in 6 cobalt #21 and 40 drill bits, 3# 21 6" and 12" and 3# 40 6
> and 12" bits I still have them all except for 2 # 21 that I broke and 1
each
> of the shorts that are dull you may also need a "d" and a #11 drill if I
> remember right The rest of the set will probable never get used.....
cobalt
> stays sharp a long time
>
> Ken S. still waiting for finishing kit
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
| Subject: | Alternator Question |
I am a retired electrian and I believe I can tell pretty much what's
going on with a voltmeter.Get a Mark Landoll solid state regulator,set
it at 14 volts,put a small dab of locktite on the adjusting screw and
you will be in good shape. Hope this helps.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Question |
Bill Ludwig wrote:
>
>
> Clay,
>
> The ammeter, if wired correctly, indicates the amount of charge the battery
> is receiving - not how much of an electrical load there is on the system.
> Turning electrical devices on or off will not cause an increase in the
> ammeter if it's wired properly.
Hmmmmmm.....The ammeter on my RMI uMonitor changes in proportion to the
load I put on the system. Turn on the strobes, six amps. Add the nav
lights, goes up to sixteen amps, etc. Turn everything off, zero amps.
The sensor is located on the B-lead between the alternator and master
contactor.
I thought this was the way it was supposed to work.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 165 hrs and haven't run out of electrons yet)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | That ratcheting sound |
I know that this was covered in the archives, but d*mnded if I can find it
any more. I put my prop on my O-320 yesterday in order to install the prop
spinner. Now I can hand prop the engine. I hear a ratcheting sound from
the starter when I pull the prop through. The starter gear in engaged onto
the flywheel. As I recall from previous discussions, this is normal. I do
not recall ever hearing this sound when pulling a prop through on a Lycoming
at the airport, so what is going on with my engine?
Steve Soule
Huntington, VT
installing spinner on the O-320
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles E. Brame" <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | No subject was specified. |
Been wondering where to install my power supply and ELT. Sounds like
this is what I want. One question and a dumb one: What is a doubler?
Charlie Brame
RV-6A QB, On the gear
San Antonio, TX
--------------------------------------------------
> From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Mounting below Baggage Compartment Floors
>
> That's what I did. I cut the floorboard on that side in half and riveted the
> aft portion in per the plans, and added a double with nutplates at the
> joint, with nutplates under the ribs around the sides and front, so only the
> fwd half of the floor on that side is removable. The power supply sits
> upside down, screwed to the removable floor piece (with a doubler plate)
> with four low profile washer-head screws. Installed the ELT in there too,
> attached to the rib.
>
> There is the disadvantage that I need to use a screwriver to get to the ELT.
> Thought about using camlocks but the baggage floor is structural so I
> figured that wouldn't be a good idea.
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~125 hrs)
> Portland, OR
> http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring lights |
>I am in the process of planning my wiring. My idea is to use a rotary switch
>to select pos1)taxi pos 2)landing + taxi and 3)pulse. This system would not
>allow me to use the landing light without the taxi light. Am I giving up
>something? If I were to simplify even more, is there a reason why the taxi
>light and landing light cannot be simply ganged together?
>
>thanks,
>
>robin wessel
I hooked them both together. I can't imagine using one without the other.
You might want to reconsider using a toggle for this operation. I have the
landing light flasher from Galls hooked up with a toggle that gives me ( off -
both on - flash ) that works great. I can't imagine a rotary that could handle
the current load without going through a bank of relays.
- Jim
RV-8A ( Engine stuff )
O-360 ( Sensenich )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: That ratcheting sound |
I had the same thing on my Bart LaLonde O-320. I'm sure there are more
elegant explanations, but the long and the short of it is that this is
normal. Once your engine is started for the first time, the starter gear
will retract into the housing. From that point on, it will behave normally
(it will not be extended when your engine is stopped.) Don't know why, but
don't really care either.
Randy Pflanzer N417G
RV-6 (45 hours)
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen J. Soule <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 10:02 AM
Subject: RV-List: That ratcheting sound
>
> I know that this was covered in the archives, but d*mnded if I can find it
> any more. I put my prop on my O-320 yesterday in order to install the
prop
> spinner. Now I can hand prop the engine. I hear a ratcheting sound from
> the starter when I pull the prop through. The starter gear in engaged
onto
> the flywheel. As I recall from previous discussions, this is normal. I
do
> not recall ever hearing this sound when pulling a prop through on a
Lycoming
> at the airport, so what is going on with my engine?
>
> Steve Soule
> Huntington, VT
> installing spinner on the O-320
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Question |
| From: | Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>
>Bill Ludwig wrote:
>>
>>
>> Clay,
>>
>> The ammeter, if wired correctly, indicates the amount of charge the battery
>> is receiving - not how much of an electrical load there is on the system.
>> Turning electrical devices on or off will not cause an increase in the
>> ammeter if it's wired properly.
>
>
>
>Hmmmmmm.....The ammeter on my RMI uMonitor changes in proportion to the
>load I put on the system. Turn on the strobes, six amps. Add the nav
>lights, goes up to sixteen amps, etc. Turn everything off, zero amps.
>The sensor is located on the B-lead between the alternator and master
>contactor.
>
>I thought this was the way it was supposed to work.
>
An ammeter measures the amount of current flowing through a wire. What
wire it is put on determines what it tells you.
Two common ways of wiring ammeters are to show total system load or to
show current flow into and out of the battery. The latter system can
show plus or minus current.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: That ratcheting sound |
Hi Steve:
That ratcheting sound as you have said is due to the starter being engaged
while turning the prop. The starter has been engaged by energizing it
without the engine starting which leaves it engaged.
It takes approx 250 RPM on the starter to engage it and the engine has to
start to disengage it. It will remain engaged until you start the engine.
In the meantime no harm is done turning the engine with the prop.
Starters equipped with a solenoid will not do this.
Regards
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen J. Soule <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Date: Monday, August 28, 2000 8:28 AM
Subject: RV-List: That ratcheting sound
>
>I know that this was covered in the archives, but d*mnded if I can find it
>any more. I put my prop on my O-320 yesterday in order to install the prop
>spinner. Now I can hand prop the engine. I hear a ratcheting sound from
>the starter when I pull the prop through. The starter gear in engaged onto
>the flywheel. As I recall from previous discussions, this is normal. I do
>not recall ever hearing this sound when pulling a prop through on a
Lycoming
>at the airport, so what is going on with my engine?
>
>Steve Soule
>Huntington, VT
>installing spinner on the O-320
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: That ratcheting sound |
| From: | Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>
>I know that this was covered in the archives, but d*mnded if I can find it
>any more. I put my prop on my O-320 yesterday in order to install the prop
>spinner. Now I can hand prop the engine. I hear a ratcheting sound from
>the starter when I pull the prop through. The starter gear in engaged onto
>the flywheel. As I recall from previous discussions, this is normal. I do
>not recall ever hearing this sound when pulling a prop through on a Lycoming
>at the airport, so what is going on with my engine?
>
The starter gear disengages when the engine starts. It should only have
the sound if the starter has been engaged but the engine did not start.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
Thread-Topic: RV-List: That ratcheting sound
Thread-Index: AcARCXPBaPNeJ+LyQtSvL4Ad6FXMLQAADAkA
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
| Subject: | That ratcheting sound |
Steven,
The "bendix" gear releases at an RPM which is higher than you're
cranking RPM. Sounds like your bendix never released if you have
already tried to start it. It should only be in contact with the
flywheel during cranking. Get a screwdriver and push that sucker back
into the starter, it will pop back in. Nothing is wrong with your
engine. Now if it stayed in there for more than a second or two at idle
then you have a problem...
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 23.8 hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen J. Soule [mailto:SSoule(at)pfclaw.com]
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 10:03 AM
Subject: RV-List: That ratcheting sound
I know that this was covered in the archives, but d*mnded if I can find
it
any more. I put my prop on my O-320 yesterday in order to install the
prop
spinner. Now I can hand prop the engine. I hear a ratcheting sound
from
the starter when I pull the prop through. The starter gear in engaged
onto
the flywheel. As I recall from previous discussions, this is normal. I
do
not recall ever hearing this sound when pulling a prop through on a
Lycoming
at the airport, so what is going on with my engine?
Steve Soule
Huntington, VT
installing spinner on the O-320
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: That ratcheting sound |
Starter has been energized, but motor did not start. the Bendix will
retract when the engine starts. Do NOT WORRY ABOUT IT!!!
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 10:02 AM
Subject: RV-List: That ratcheting sound
>
> I know that this was covered in the archives, but d*mnded if I can find it
> any more. I put my prop on my O-320 yesterday in order to install the
prop
> spinner. Now I can hand prop the engine. I hear a ratcheting sound from
> the starter when I pull the prop through. The starter gear in engaged
onto
> the flywheel. As I recall from previous discussions, this is normal. I
do
> not recall ever hearing this sound when pulling a prop through on a
Lycoming
> at the airport, so what is going on with my engine?
>
> Steve Soule
> Huntington, VT
> installing spinner on the O-320
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Question |
Initial positive indication says that charging system works.
Indication of -2 later is puzzling.
Tests:
Before engine start with master on - ammeter should indicate near zero.
Turning on pitot heat, landing lights etc should cause negative indication.
Turning off should bring back near zero.
If this test is okay, call for Electric Bob!
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Petri David S CDR <David.Petri(at)peterson.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Tall man's option in RV-8 |
Are,
Scott's pedal check is a good one. I am 6'6" with a 37" inseam and I fit in
Van's demo bird perfectly... meaning room to move and not bang my headset on
the canopy. Leg length was comfy. Get your buddy to try on a different -8
before he dives into the tall man option. What you gain in the front, you
lose in the back.
Cheers,
Dave
RV-6(-9A) Preview Plans
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott R McDaniels [mailto:smcdaniels(at)juno.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 10:27 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Tall man's option in RV-8
Subject: RV-List: Tall man's option in RV-8
>I'm posting this for a friend of mine that is 6'8" w/ a 38" inseam. He
tried
>to sit in an RV-8 today but no way. The height is no problem, only
legroom.
>Does anyone on the list know what the mods are for the tall man's
option?
>Even better, does anyone know how many extra inches is gained?
>Are
>RV-8
The tall option for the RV-8 adds 2 inches in leg room which equates to a
huge amount of change for knee clearance at the panel.
He should also verify that the peddles as installed were done correctly
and that the were adjusted to the forward most possible position.
He also should be sure that he is sitting at the proper height (at Van's
we believe that means "as high as possible") because as you site higher
it also moves you back slightly.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: drill bit question |
Bob,
I'd get all bits from Avery. I got a pack of #40s from ACSpruce and was
almost unhappy enough to send them back. They skate all over - are the
obsolete type.
I believe that cobalts last longer but have no hard evidence. I don't think
they are much more expensive than HS either. My experience with titanium is
that it is a marketing scam. For use on steel, only cobalt and use cutting
oil. For larger holes always drill a pilot hole first. Tighten at least
two holes on the chuck to avoid slipping. Run tiny bits very fast etc.
I just bought needed sizes, some Van says we need and don't and some we
don't and do. You will need a right angle doodad with a few bits (Avery's
Terry tool).
I used
1 each # 50 (for what?)
gobs # 40 and one 12 incher
gobs # 30 and one 12 "
1 # 20 which is larger than 3/16 but plans say "for snugger
fit"
some 3/16" and one six incher
1 D six inch
some 1/4 "
1 expensive step drill goes to 7/8"
few sizes appropriate for #6 and #8 screws - i.e. 5/64s
1 5/16
1 3/8
and maybe a few others. No need for 29 bits but nice if you are awash in
money.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | drill bit question |
| From: | Don R Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
Bob:
I would buy the junk from Harbofreight. Manly as a mesuring tool, but
you will have them.
On the 41,30,21,10,1/4,5/16, & the 3/8 buy from avery & if you find them
, the long 12 "'s from a tool supply when you can get them cheap. I would
get at least 2 from Bob in the 41 & 30.
Don't turn down a deal on Unibits, they will be used a lot later.
Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
**********************************************
>
> i gota few extra $ this month and already own a cheap $30 set of
> drills (1/16
> to 1/2 by 64ths) drill bits.
> i am wanting to order more, i.e. by number and possibly letter
> sizes. three
> questions:
> 1. is the high dollar bits that are cobalt and meet nas 907 type j
> specs
> really worth it? (avery)
> 2. are the wire size-letter bits used that much? i don't even see
> letter
> sizes offered in avery cat.
> i am seeing a variety of sets in all the other tool cats. and not
> sure if i
> am throwing money away. i even found a 119 piece set at harbor (all
> 3 sets of
> sizes) for $40. and $60 for the titanium coated.
> 3. is the titanium worth it?
> thanx, guys, bob in ark doin wings
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | drill bit question |
I bought a set of number bits from Harbor Freight. The first two I used
chipped within a few holes, so I took them back.
Matthew
-8A (almost done with 'em)! N48PP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of kempthornes
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: drill bit question
--> RV-List message
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Experimental Signage |
Glenn,
Check out FAR 45.23(b). From the looks of it your idea should be OK.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
>From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Experimental Signage
>Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 10:31:53 -0500
>
>
>Hi,
>
>On an RV-6 TIP-UP, can I put the "Experimental" sign on the underside of
>the forward canopy skin? It would be visible to anyone getting into the
>aircraft (canopy up), however it would not be visible when the canopy is
>closed.
>
>-Glenn Gordon
>
>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Waalkes" <waalkes(at)netnitco.net> |
I just purchased a ProTech 9" bandsaw from Lowe's for $89 and I'm having
second thoughts. I've found some info in the archives about the table top
models designed for wood and composites work fine for the thin aluminum we
are using. But, I noticed that Harbor Freight is selling a model that is on
it's own bench and cuts vertically and horizontally AND is designed for
metalworking for $140. Does anyone have any input on which is the best for
building the RV? I'm also considering the Craftsman variable speed floor
stand drill press (about $250) if anyone has any input.
Bob Waalkes
RV-8 QB Waiting on Emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Carter <jcarter420(at)excite.com> |
>
> I just purchased a ProTech 9" bandsaw from Lowe's for $89 and I'm having
> second thoughts. I've found some info in the archives about the table
top
> models designed for wood and composites work fine for the thin aluminum
we
> are using. But, I noticed that Harbor Freight is selling a model that is
on
> it's own bench and cuts vertically and horizontally AND is designed for
> metalworking for $140. Does anyone have any input on which is the best
for
> building the RV? I'm also considering the Craftsman variable speed floor
> stand drill press (about $250) if anyone has any input.
>
> Bob Waalkes
> RV-8 QB Waiting on Emp.
>
For 89 bucks, sounds good to me. The cuts that you will be making on the
band saw are somewhat rough anyway. I always finish the cut by sanding,
filing or grinding to the line that I drew to cut to. The horizontal cut
sounds nice, especially if you can vary the speed of the blade - slow speed
is better for steel, which you may need from time to time.
Personally, I could have survived without a drill press, although I'm sure
there will be those who will tell you that this is indispensable.
Your mileage may vary.....
Jerry
Say Bye to Slow Internet!
http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Ludwig" <ludwig(at)azstarnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Question |
Hi Sam,
If you are seeing an increase in ammeter reading when switching on loads,
your ammeter is wired in a non-conventional manner. With the engine
running, there should be no increase (or decrease) in ammeter deflection
when switching electrical loads on or off. The supplied wiring diagram in
Van's instruction manual shows the normal method of wiring the ammeter. The
ammeter must be connected AFTER the main bus, NOT prior to. It should
be...alternator, main bus, ammeter, master relay, battery, ground.
Clear as mud?
- Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Date: Monday, August 28, 2000 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternator Question
>
>
>Bill Ludwig wrote:
>>
>>
>> Clay,
>>
>> The ammeter, if wired correctly, indicates the amount of charge the
battery
>> is receiving - not how much of an electrical load there is on the system.
>> Turning electrical devices on or off will not cause an increase in the
>> ammeter if it's wired properly.
>
>
>
>Hmmmmmm.....The ammeter on my RMI uMonitor changes in proportion to the
>load I put on the system. Turn on the strobes, six amps. Add the nav
>lights, goes up to sixteen amps, etc. Turn everything off, zero amps.
>The sensor is located on the B-lead between the alternator and master
>contactor.
>
>I thought this was the way it was supposed to work.
>
>Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 165 hrs and haven't run out of electrons yet)
>"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Question |
>> The ammeter, if wired correctly, indicates the amount of charge the battery
>> is receiving - not how much of an electrical load there is on the system.
>> Turning electrical devices on or off will not cause an increase in the
>> ammeter if it's wired properly. Regardless, the -2 amp reading means
>> something is wrong. It means the battery is seeing a 2 amp discharge for
>> some reason. The +12 amps means the alternator/regulator are probably
>> working, but I'd suspect something is wired incorectly. Even after a
>> several hour run, you should see a slight positive charge on the ammeter.
Ammeters can be wired a variety of ways. In most larger aircraft, they
are wired to indicate load on the alternator (generator) as a percentage
of capacity. This is how we recommend using ammeters . . . wiring
diagrams and more details are available from our website at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/instrmnt/9021_600.pdf
Many certified singles use a zero-centered ammeter to indicate
state of charge of the battery . . . a technique carried over from
about 70 years of automotive production. If you're going to take
advantage of performance enhancements afforded by firewall alternator
b-lead feeds, the classic "battey ammeter" isn't practical.
Please consider wiring an ammeter (if you choose to have one) as
shown on many power distribution diagrams in the book or downloaded
from our website. If you're wanting MINIMAL electrical system
instrumentation, then consider a digital or expanded scale voltmeter
(see http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/instrmnt/loadvolt.jpg )
tied to your essential bus.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Loose Rivets |
If a rivet has become loose then it is no longer doing what it was installed
for. Now, one or two loose rivets here and there are not reason for concern
but any more than two together is. Is there a risk of catastrophic failure.
If it were to get bad enough...yes. I'm not trying to get doom and gloom
here but if you do find a couple of loose rivets here and there then you
should replace them as soon as time permits or as soon as possible,
whichever comes first. I have seen the outcome of failed rivets more than I
want to. It gives one a deep respect for the strength of those little
things.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
>From: SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Loose Rivets
>Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:33:41 EDT
>
>
>In a message dated 08/25/2000 8:39:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>Mark.Nielsen@fiedler-lp.com writes:
>
> > In my RV-6, some of the rivets that attach the stiffeners to the
> > forward belly pan have loosened.
> Me, too. What happens if you do nothing except continue to wipe off the
>mess? Am I risking a catastrophic failure?
>
>Bill Boyd
>RV-6A O-320/FP Sensenich
>Hop-Along Airfield - 12VA
>Clifton Forge, VA
>
>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
Yes, I have a great idea about that band saw. Take it back and don't bother
buying another one. I'm building an RV-4, much less of the -4 is pre-done
and I still have seen no need or even a desire for the band saw. The die
grinder with a cut off wheel is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I
can cut with that thing freehand to a 64th of an inch so I see no need for
the bandsaw. I am sure I'll bump into something sooner or later that
requires it...but so far (wings nearly done) I have not found a need.
I have a drill press that I bought for the RV project. I have used it VERY
seldom and have no doubt I could get along quite well without it. Save your
money on these two bench space suckers and buy a pneumatic squeezer instead.
You will use it ALOT and it will save you months.
Bill
-4 wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Waalkes" <waalkes(at)netnitco.net>
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 2:14 PM
Subject: RV-List: Band Saw
>
> I just purchased a ProTech 9" bandsaw from Lowe's for $89 and I'm having
> second thoughts. I've found some info in the archives about the table top
> models designed for wood and composites work fine for the thin aluminum we
> are using. But, I noticed that Harbor Freight is selling a model that is
on
> it's own bench and cuts vertically and horizontally AND is designed for
> metalworking for $140. Does anyone have any input on which is the best
for
> building the RV? I'm also considering the Craftsman variable speed floor
> stand drill press (about $250) if anyone has any input.
>
> Bob Waalkes
> RV-8 QB Waiting on Emp.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net> |
I've updated my -6 web page to reflect the completion of my wing spars.
Additionally, I've put together a brief page about my Stinson
Mike Nellis - RV-6 Wings N699BM (res)
Plainfield, IL
http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Chesteen" <bchesteen(at)planetc.com> |
I have a 9" Delta table model, so far I have had no problems cutting
anything I need to cut. It would not cut 1/2 CR steel plate, but who cares?
I bought some 18 tpi X 3/8 blades from McMaster Carr. It zips through alum
like butter.
Brian Chesteen
RV-6 Emp
>
> I just purchased a ProTech 9" bandsaw from Lowe's for $89 and I'm having
> second thoughts. I've found some info in the archives about the table
top
> models designed for wood and composites work fine for the thin aluminum
we
> are using.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator Question |
Van's drawing shows an ammeter shunt in there too. What is a shunt and how
does it fit into the system?
Steve Soule
Huntington, VT
-----Original Message-----
If you are seeing an increase in ammeter reading when switching on loads,
your ammeter is wired in a non-conventional manner. With the engine
running, there should be no increase (or decrease) in ammeter deflection
when switching electrical loads on or off. The supplied wiring diagram in
Van's instruction manual shows the normal method of wiring the ammeter. The
ammeter must be connected AFTER the main bus, NOT prior to. It should
be...alternator, main bus, ammeter, master relay, battery, ground.
Clear as mud?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com> |
Check the archives under "Smoking Rivets"
Ed Cole
Maxim Integrated Products
Bldg. 120 Ext. 6605
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Robertson [SMTP:mrobert569(at)hotmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 2:48 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Loose Rivets
>
>
> If a rivet has become loose then it is no longer doing what it was
> installed
> for. Now, one or two loose rivets here and there are not reason for
> concern
> but any more than two together is. Is there a risk of catastrophic
> failure.
> If it were to get bad enough...yes. I'm not trying to get doom and
> gloom
> here but if you do find a couple of loose rivets here and there then you
> should replace them as soon as time permits or as soon as possible,
> whichever comes first. I have seen the outcome of failed rivets more than
> I
> want to. It gives one a deep respect for the strength of those little
> things.
>
> Mike Robertson
> RV-8A
>
> >From: SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Loose Rivets
> >Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:33:41 EDT
> >
> >
> >In a message dated 08/25/2000 8:39:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> >Mark.Nielsen@fiedler-lp.com writes:
> >
> > > In my RV-6, some of the rivets that attach the stiffeners to the
> > > forward belly pan have loosened.
> > Me, too. What happens if you do nothing except continue to wipe off
> the
> >mess? Am I risking a catastrophic failure?
> >
> >Bill Boyd
> >RV-6A O-320/FP Sensenich
> >Hop-Along Airfield - 12VA
> >Clifton Forge, VA
> >
> >
>
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> http://profiles.msn.com.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Experimental Signage |
Hi Glenn,
That is exactly where I put my "Experimental" placard and it was fine
with the DAR that did my inspection. Apparently as long as a passenger can
plainly see it BEFORE stepping inside, then its most likely compliant.
Ed
Edward L. Anderson
Matthews NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
-8A
> >Subject: RV-List: Experimental Signage
> >Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 10:31:53 -0500
> >
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >On an RV-6 TIP-UP, can I put the "Experimental" sign on the underside of
> >the forward canopy skin? It would be visible to anyone getting into the
> >aircraft (canopy up), however it would not be visible when the canopy is
> >closed.
> >
> >-Glenn Gordon
> >
> >
>
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> http://profiles.msn.com.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)avidyne.com> |
>I just purchased a ProTech 9" bandsaw from Lowe's for $89
>...(snipped)
>I noticed that Harbor Freight is selling a model that is on
>it's own bench and cuts vertically and horizontally AND is
>designed for metalworking for $140.
Bob, take it back, get the horz/vert model. People will tell you you can
build an RV with just a cut-off tool instead of a bandsaw. They are wrong.
;) Okay, they are right, but you can also build an RV with a sharpened
rock, a couple big blunt rocks, and maybe some wrenches. The bandsaw is
*much* quieter than the cut-off wheel, quicker, uses less power, and doesn't
fill your nostrils, lungs, and work area with aluminum dust. And don't get
me started on cutting that 2"x2.5" fuel tank support angle with a cut-off
wheel!...
You can check the archive for my earlier rantings on this topic. In fact,
search for "faatz & diatribe" on the Matronics search engine to find it!
Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit
Bedford, MA (for know!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Question |
>
>Initial positive indication says that charging system works.
>
>Indication of -2 later is puzzling.
>
>Tests:
>
> Before engine start with master on - ammeter should indicate near zero.
>Turning on pitot heat, landing lights etc should cause negative indication.
>Turning off should bring back near zero.
>
>If this test is okay, call for Electric Bob!
>
>hal
I've been sorta watching this thread . . . what we REALLY
would like to know is what the bus voltage is while your
seeing the anomalous ammeter reading. Do you have access to
an accurate, preferably digital voltmeter?
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Doubler, was No subject was specified. |
Charlie,
A doubler is a second piece of metal added to increase the strength of a
single piece. For example, if you cut a hole in the floor then you would
also cut another piece of aluminum about one to two inches larger that the
hole you cut then also cut the hole in that. It kind of looks like a
mis-shaped donut now. Then match it up with the hole in the skin and rivet
it in place. It now adds strength to make up for the missing metal. The
are all kinds of doublers. The best place to look for examples is in AC
43.13-1B under metal repairs. Sorry I don't have a link to it but there are
several on some of the web-sites or through a web search.
>From: "Charles E. Brame" <charleyb(at)earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: RV List
>Subject: RV-List: No subject was specified.
>Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 10:42:48 -0500
>
>
>Been wondering where to install my power supply and ELT. Sounds like
>this is what I want. One question and a dumb one: What is a doubler?
>
>Charlie Brame
>RV-6A QB, On the gear
>San Antonio, TX
>
>--------------------------------------------------
>
> > From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Mounting below Baggage Compartment Floors
> >
>
> > That's what I did. I cut the floorboard on that side in half and riveted
>the
> > aft portion in per the plans, and added a double with nutplates at the
> > joint, with nutplates under the ribs around the sides and front, so only
>the
> > fwd half of the floor on that side is removable. The power supply sits
> > upside down, screwed to the removable floor piece (with a doubler plate)
> > with four low profile washer-head screws. Installed the ELT in there
>too,
> > attached to the rib.
> >
> > There is the disadvantage that I need to use a screwriver to get to the
>ELT.
> > Thought about using camlocks but the baggage floor is structural so I
> > figured that wouldn't be a good idea.
> >
> > Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~125 hrs)
> > Portland, OR
> > http://www.edt.com/homewing
>
>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Mixture arm interference with Bendix throttle body |
I have posted this before, what worked for me and seemed to be the least
trouble was to make a spacer thick enough to lower the air box to clear the
arm. I cut it out of "as I recall" 5/8 thick material to pick up the four
bolts then marked out the location of the opening in the throttle body and
had a machine shop cut the hole out.
This makes a tidy installation at a reasonable cost.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B. C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Flight testing - Oil pressure/Temperature Changes |
> (snip)....Also, think
> about what increasing the pressure of a fluid in a closed system
> does--the fluid moves thru the system (and the oil cooler) faster,
> allowing less time for heat removal
Are you sure about this??
If the pressure of fluid in a **CLOSED** system is increased, nothing
happens (unless system ruptures) it would seem. ???
Another way to look at it: The system doesn't care about movement of air or
fluid, only about the temperature differential between fluid in the core and
the air outside affect the rate of cooling. (The material the cooler is
made of and its size affect too but remain constant in this discussion.)
The greater the temperature differential, the greater the rate of heat
transfer. To keep the diff high, keep the oil moving so as to keep the
hotest oil at the surface of the cooler and keep the air moving so as to
carry away the hot air and keep the coolest air next to the surface.
An oil pump in a racing car, for example, that produces a higher pressure
uses more horsepower to do it and that means more heat to be transferred.
hal
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence/twist |
Bernie Kerr says
>You are exactly right regarding the lift vector and the rear
> spar joint at the fuselage is definitely in tension!
So there are forces acting on the bolt in all directions. Can anyone put
*rough* numbers on these forces? Or even say which is greatest, next etc.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
>
> Bob, take it back, get the horz/vert model. People will tell you you can
> build an RV with just a cut-off tool instead of a bandsaw. They are wrong.
> ;) Okay, they are right, but you can also build an RV with a sharpened
> rock, a couple big blunt rocks, and maybe some wrenches. The bandsaw is
> *much* quieter than the cut-off wheel, quicker, uses less power, and doesn't
> fill your nostrils, lungs, and work area with aluminum dust. And don't get
> me started on cutting that 2"x2.5" fuel tank support angle with a cut-off
> wheel!...
>
I must inject my $0.02 here. I have a two benchtop saws and one vertical
bandsaw and have used all in building my RV. I used the benchtops the
most. The benchtops run at higher blade speeds and cut the material
faster than the vertical. The vert/horz stands out when cutting lots of
angle of the same length. The vert/horz has a wide blade which only
allows cutting of shallow curves. The benchtop can be fitted with narrow
(1/8") blades and can cut some really nice tight curves when needed. My
vote would be to keep the benchtop.
Some people build using only hacksaws and cuttoff wheels, this is fine.
I found that the bandsaw allowed fabricating parts that much easier.
--
Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado
RV-6A N99PZ Flying
Engine: Aerosport Power O-360-A1A with H2AD Pistons
Prop: Sensenich 72FM8S9-1-83
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM |
i agree with one lister. the pneumatic squeezer has been a fantastic time
saver and helps in finishing some first class 1/8 rivets. buy one!!!! bob in
ark doin wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Tena Strong" <gstrong(at)uswest.net> |
I've been looking at the ProTech (and Sears) as well. I've not made the
purchase because I couldn't find a metal cutting blade for the unit since it
uses 59 1/4" blades that appear to be nowhere to be found for metal. All I
was able to find was blades for wood cutting. That is until this post about
McMaster Carr. They've got 1 bimetal 59 1/4" blade w/ 10-14 tpi catalog
number 4179A308. Looks like the perfect blade for doing RV work, so off to
the store for another tool purchase!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Question |
In a message dated 8/28/00 1:17:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
ludwig(at)azstarnet.com writes:
<< If you are seeing an increase in ammeter reading when switching on loads,
your ammeter is wired in a non-conventional manner. With the engine
running, there should be no increase (or decrease) in ammeter deflection
when switching electrical loads on or off. The supplied wiring diagram in
Van's instruction manual shows the normal method of wiring the ammeter. The
ammeter must be connected AFTER the main bus, NOT prior to. It should
be...alternator, main bus, ammeter, master relay, battery, ground. >>
I would beg to differ. If you don't see an increase in ammeter readings when
switching loads your ammeter is wired as though it were in an automobile.
This doesn't make it right.
For aircraft it is advantageous to wire the ammeter as a load meter, if you
also have a voltmeter. The voltmeter tells you that you are charging (if
above 12.5V) and at what float voltage (approx 14V). The load meter shunt or
sender connected between the alternator B lead and the switched side of the
master solenoid will measure all loads on the alternator: battery, bus,
etc.and from that you are able to determine how much of the total available
alternator output you are drawing. As you turn on or off various
accessories, you can see whether they draw what they should.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Glide-Slope Ant |
Can the G-S Ant use the same antenna as the VOR? and be
connected via a di-plexer.......or tri-plexer???
You may run a glideslope receiver from your VOR antenna in addition
to the VOR NAV receiver. We'll have suitable couplers in stock in
a few days. See . . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/antenna/antenna.html#av-570
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Welch" <vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
Hey guys,
I just closed up my wing and I have an oil can in one section on the
bottom. I can reach it through an access panel and was considering
riveting in a stiffener. If I go this route, should the stiffener be
parallel to the ribs or perpendicular?
Vince Welch
RV-8A Wings
Roaming Shores, Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Question |
Bill Ludwig wrote:
>
>
> Hi Sam,
>
> If you are seeing an increase in ammeter reading when switching on loads,
> your ammeter is wired in a non-conventional manner. With the engine
> running, there should be no increase (or decrease) in ammeter deflection
> when switching electrical loads on or off. The supplied wiring diagram in
> Van's instruction manual shows the normal method of wiring the ammeter. The
> ammeter must be connected AFTER the main bus, NOT prior to. It should
> be...alternator, main bus, ammeter, master relay, battery, ground.
>
> Clear as mud?
More or less. RMI recommends their sensor be placed in the alternator
b-lead since the sensor can only read a minimum of -9 amps. Besides, I
kinda like seeing how the loads accumulate as different stuff is
switched on in the system.
I am a little confused about the "conventional" methods, however. My
memory may be all fuzzy, but seems I remember the ammeter on the Warrior
I used to fly indicated loads as you added them to the system. Matter of
fact, I think that was the way we confirmed the pitot heat element was
working; additional deflection, we had heat, no deflection, no heat.
Oh well, very few things about the electrical system and panel in my
plane are conventional (Thanks, Bob!) so I guess the "weird" ammeter
fits nicely into the overall scheme. :-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 177 hrs with the wrong ammeter....)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Prop Governor Cable Bracket |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Prop Governor Cable Bracket
I had EXACTLY the same experience with my O360A1A and Woodward governor.
I
assumed at the time that relieving the slot was a normal building step in
line with the motto: "Do what ever it takes to make it fit!" I now
realize
after reading RV4Brown's posting that the interference was subtle and
that
some builders might not catch it. I suspect there are lots of RVs with
this
problem.
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A Hartzell 0.0 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard V. Reynolds <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Prop Governor Cable Bracket
>
>
>RV4Brown(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>> I am using the prop governor cable bracket sold by Vans and a
Woodward
>> governor on an O-360. The engine will only turn up to 2630 at full
throttle
>> because of an interference between the governor cable and the low rpm
>> governor stop.
>
>AHHHHH! I discovered this problem just after mounting my cable. As the
governor
>arm rotates vertical, the solid cable rod contacts the slot in the
bracket.
>After pondering this for a while, I removed the O-360, removed the
bracket
and
>removed about 1/8 to 3/16 of material from the top of the slot. I don't
think
>you can do this in place.
>
>I purchased Van's bracket in Oct 1999. If you look at the instructions
that
came
>with it, it was designed so the solid cable rod is perfectly centered
when
the
>governor arm is open or shut. At midstroke, IT FOULS!
>
- - - - - - - - - - -
We discovered this by accident (I was installing one) about 8 months ago.
As far as I know, no customer/builder had ever said anything about it.
When the .DXF file was done for punching the part, the slot was slightly
misaligned. All of the parts shipped since early this year should not
have a problem.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Lumpkin" <tlump(at)mediaone.net> |
By your description, I think I have the same model band saw. $140 is a
good deal, however, this saw is really only a cut off saw. It is great if
you are cutting relatively thick steel, but there's not much of that
required to build an RV unless you're cutting bucking bars. The saw isn't
very stable in its vertical position and the table is too small to support
your work well. My saw has a couple of attach screws in the middle of the
table guaranteed to scratch your pretty alclad. The blade is so wide that
you can't cut curves and the throat is not very deep. Also, you have to
remove the table when you want to use it as a cut-off saw. I use this band
saw all the time for cutting steel tubing for various projects, but I only
used it on my RV for cutting the aileron counterweights.
I would recommend that you get a small "three wheeler" band saw. I have
used one on my RV-4 project that I bought used for $50. It is a no-name
brand and is about as cheap as band saws come, but it has worked fine for me
through the build of my entire airframe. It has a 12" throat, a variable
speed motor, and uses a 1/4 X 56" blade that can cut surprisingly tight
radii. I use a 14 teeth per inch blade. It will go right through 1/4 inch
aluminum plate.
I think a drill press is a great investment. I use mine the most for
spinning a scotchbrite wheel. I went with a bench model so that I could put
it on a mobile bench (got the idea from Tony Bingellis). This has worked
well for me in my very cramped workshop. Being mobile really helps when I
have to work on big parts.
Ted
RV-4 finishing kit
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Waalkes <waalkes(at)netnitco.net>
Date: Monday, August 28, 2000 11:29 AM
Subject: RV-List: Band Saw
>
>I just purchased a ProTech 9" bandsaw from Lowe's for $89 and I'm having
>second thoughts. I've found some info in the archives about the table top
>models designed for wood and composites work fine for the thin aluminum we
>are using. But, I noticed that Harbor Freight is selling a model that is
on
>it's own bench and cuts vertically and horizontally AND is designed for
>metalworking for $140. Does anyone have any input on which is the best for
>building the RV? I'm also considering the Craftsman variable speed floor
>stand drill press (about $250) if anyone has any input.
>
>Bob Waalkes
>RV-8 QB Waiting on Emp.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Ludwig" <ludwig(at)azstarnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Question |
Based on that, I guess Van's needs a course in aircraft electrical wiring...
- Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanremog(at)AOL.COM <Vanremog(at)AOL.COM>
Date: Monday, August 28, 2000 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternator Question
>
>In a message dated 8/28/00 1:17:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>ludwig(at)azstarnet.com writes:
>
><< If you are seeing an increase in ammeter reading when switching on
loads,
> your ammeter is wired in a non-conventional manner. With the engine
> running, there should be no increase (or decrease) in ammeter deflection
> when switching electrical loads on or off. The supplied wiring diagram in
> Van's instruction manual shows the normal method of wiring the ammeter.
The
> ammeter must be connected AFTER the main bus, NOT prior to. It should
> be...alternator, main bus, ammeter, master relay, battery, ground. >>
>
>I would beg to differ. If you don't see an increase in ammeter readings
when
>switching loads your ammeter is wired as though it were in an automobile.
>This doesn't make it right.
>
>For aircraft it is advantageous to wire the ammeter as a load meter, if you
>also have a voltmeter. The voltmeter tells you that you are charging (if
>above 12.5V) and at what float voltage (approx 14V). The load meter shunt
or
>sender connected between the alternator B lead and the switched side of the
>master solenoid will measure all loads on the alternator: battery, bus,
>etc.and from that you are able to determine how much of the total available
>alternator output you are drawing. As you turn on or off various
>accessories, you can see whether they draw what they should.
>
>-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
>vanremog(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Question |
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
>
> Bill Ludwig wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Sam,
> >
> > If you are seeing an increase in ammeter reading when switching on loads,
> > your ammeter is wired in a non-conventional manner. With the engine
> > running, there should be no increase (or decrease) in ammeter deflection
> > when switching electrical loads on or off. The supplied wiring diagram in
> > Van's instruction manual shows the normal method of wiring the ammeter. The
> > ammeter must be connected AFTER the main bus, NOT prior to. It should
> > be...alternator, main bus, ammeter, master relay, battery, ground.
> >
> > Clear as mud?
>
> More or less. RMI recommends their sensor be placed in the alternator
> b-lead since the sensor can only read a minimum of -9 amps. Besides, I
> kinda like seeing how the loads accumulate as different stuff is
> switched on in the system.
>
> I am a little confused about the "conventional" methods, however. My
> memory may be all fuzzy, but seems I remember the ammeter on the Warrior
> I used to fly indicated loads as you added them to the system. Matter of
> fact, I think that was the way we confirmed the pitot heat element was
> working; additional deflection, we had heat, no deflection, no heat.
>
> Oh well, very few things about the electrical system and panel in my
> plane are conventional (Thanks, Bob!) so I guess the "weird" ammeter
> fits nicely into the overall scheme. :-)
>
> Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 177 hrs with the wrong ammeter....)
> "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
>
You are right Sam, right or wrong that is the way that Piper
wired their ammeters, and all of the airplanes that I instructed
in over the years that had ammeters were wired to show increase
in amp loads as more systems were turned on.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob DiMeo - Oracle <dimeob(at)powertel.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re:Flight testing - Oil pressure/Temperature Change |
s
I don't see the oil system as a 'closed' system in that the pressure is
not constant everywhere. Indeed, in the sump the ideal pressure is
atmosphere so it doesn't blow out the breather. Between the high pressure
pump and the sump is the cooler. This being the case, the higher the
pressure from the pump the faster it would flow through the cooler and the
less time the hot oil has in the cooler to transfer heat, therefore the temp
goes up until the transfer evens out again at a higher temp. Solution? Slow
the flow down or add more cooler for the oil to go through.
OK, back into my hole.
Bob
RV8 #423
> ----------
> From: kempthornes
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 09:35 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Flight testing - Oil pressure/Temperature
> Changes
>
>
> > (snip)....Also, think
> > about what increasing the pressure of a fluid in a closed system
> > does--the fluid moves thru the system (and the oil cooler) faster,
> > allowing less time for heat removal
>
> Are you sure about this??
>
> If the pressure of fluid in a **CLOSED** system is increased, nothing
> happens (unless system ruptures) it would seem. ???
>
> Another way to look at it: The system doesn't care about movement of air
> or
> fluid, only about the temperature differential between fluid in the core
> and
> the air outside affect the rate of cooling. (The material the cooler is
> made of and its size affect too but remain constant in this discussion.)
> The greater the temperature differential, the greater the rate of heat
> transfer. To keep the diff high, keep the oil moving so as to keep the
> hotest oil at the surface of the cooler and keep the air moving so as to
> carry away the hot air and keep the coolest air next to the surface.
>
> An oil pump in a racing car, for example, that produces a higher pressure
> uses more horsepower to do it and that means more heat to be transferred.
>
> hal
>
>
> hal
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob DiMeo - Oracle <dimeob(at)powertel.com.au> |
| Subject: | Alternator Question |
Sam's right. On the PA28 series the ammeter is a 'load' meter. You verify
the alternator is working by switching on a load and seeing the meter
register the increased load. No meter movement, no fly.
Bob
RV8 #423
> I am a little confused about the "conventional" methods, however. My
> memory may be all fuzzy, but seems I remember the ammeter on the Warrior
> I used to fly indicated loads as you added them to the system. Matter of
> fact, I think that was the way we confirmed the pitot heat element was
> working; additional deflection, we had heat, no deflection, no heat.
> Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 177 hrs with the wrong ammeter....)
> "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jaugilas <jaugilas(at)mediaone.net> |
I found a metal blade for mine at Menards.
Very reasonable prices too.
Bill Jaugilas
Gary & Tena Strong wrote:
>
> I've been looking at the ProTech (and Sears) as well. I've not made the
> purchase because I couldn't find a metal cutting blade for the unit since it
> uses 59 1/4" blades that appear to be nowhere to be found for metal. All I
> was able to find was blades for wood cutting. That is until this post about
> McMaster Carr. They've got 1 bimetal 59 1/4" blade w/ 10-14 tpi catalog
> number 4179A308. Looks like the perfect blade for doing RV work, so off to
> the store for another tool purchase!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Eaves" <doneaves(at)bigfoot.com> |
| Subject: | Wing incidence/Adjusting Rear Spar Attachment |
Gentlemen may we move this back to the original problem Finn Lassen has.
"The need to make an adjust at the rear spar after the holes have been
drilled."
"pocondon" gave a good answer. So did others, adjust flaps. re drill with a
larger bolt, and the much used aileron trailing edge puffing & squeezing.
Even with the holes drilled "on the money" you may still may have the need
to make an adjustment to the spar. And - Some builder in the future might
want to build his RV6/4 with the use of these Eccentric bolt collars thus
allowing adjustment if needed.
My questions for "pocondon" are:
What Cessna did the Eccentric bolt collars from? 150/152 172 182?
What size holes are needed to use the Eccentric bolt collars?
Would Vans approve of this due to the size of hole needed?
What have other builders done to solve this problem beyond those I gave
above?
-----Original Message----- posted by: pcondon(at)csc.com
I've seen Cessna concentric bolt collars ( small round sleeves drilled off
center with a thin hex head) used in all cessna aircraft and some
experimental's. At the Cessna factory where 10 or 15 aircraft rolled off the
assembly line daily, the rear spar holes sometimes needed tweaking. By
simply rotating this concentric collar the rear alignment n the spar
attach point's) came into the desired angle. The bolt that ran thru this
collar was the pinch bolt or mount bolt. Elegant & simple. A set of these
collars kept a grown man from crying when he mis-drilled his rear spar
holes in his RV-6...........no it wasn't me...I got a RV-4.........
-----Original Message----- posted by: Finn Lassen
Both my wings were built with twists in them (inadvertently, I'm sure),
the right wing more than the left.
I set the incidence at both wings to 1 degree positive at their roots.
That means that the incidence of the outer left wing edge is 0 degrees
and 2 to 2.5 degrees (positive) at the outer right wing edge.
I'd half forgotten this, and didn't notice it again until I reached
higher speeds. At 185 mph I have to apply substantial right stick
pressure to keep wings level, and also left rudder to keep ball
centered.
The question of course is: what to do about it?
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re:Flight testing - Oil pressure/Temperature Changes |
Gentlemen:
I appreciate the responses to my query regarding the change in oil
temperature seen when I raised the oil pressure in my engine for 60 to 75
psig. The thesis presented seem reasonable, but I think there are still some
unknowns that make it difficult to come to a conclusion.
I am looking for a one line schematic of the oil system to understand
where in the system the oil pressure ball valve is positioned. Assuming that
the oil pump is a geared (more or less) positive displacement pump, the
increase in oil pressure downstream of the pump may or may not increase the
total oil flow because the pump speed hasn't changed. I can certainly
understand why an increase in pressure would increase flow through the
various oil ports and bearings in the engine. The ball valve regulates the
pressure in the engine by applying a pressure restriction in the system.
Where does the oil go that passes by the ball valve through the regulation
process? Does it go back to the sump, through the oil screen, to the oil
cooler? I don't know exactly where the oil that has passed through the engine
to the oil cooler exits from the system relative to the oil screen, the
temperature probe and the oil temperature control valve. Does the oil temp
valve always bypass at least some oil or does it have a closed position?
When it is closed, does it bypass the oil back to the engine sump? Does 100%
of the oil circulating through the engine pass through the oil screen? How is
oil that has passed through the engine crankshaft bearings find its way back
to the oil cooler or does it just drop back into the sump? The oil passing
through the oil cooler enters from the bottom of the cooler which should push
any air in the internal system out of the cooler. Does the oil cooler see any
amount of back pressure? What is the source of the feed oil actually fed to
the oil cooler?
I think I could understand the system better if I could see a diagram of
the oil pathways. Given all the posts in the past regarding oil coolers and
air duct sizing, hot engine temps, etc., maybe its time to get a better
education as to how that fluid is traversing through our engines. I my mind
I am still trying to understand if pushing more oil through the engine
pressure ports via higher oil pressure and therefore bypassing less oil
through the oil pressure control valve is removing more heat from the engine
and hence the higher oil temperatures appear at the cooler. If this is the
case, the higher temps are a good thing as my engine parts should be running
cooler than they were before.
A bit of operational history:
I am using a Sam James pressure plenum on the O-360. My cylinder temps
typically run within fifteen degrees of each other with 325F being a typical
cruise temp. Exhaust temps with the fuel injection system run within 40
degrees and typically are set at 1450F when leaned. Many times in stabilized
cruise, all four exhaust probes are reading the same and all four cylinder
probes are reading the same. The oil cooler is mounted off the rear of
number four cylinder. When I first placed the system into service, I had an
effective air inlet area from the plenum to the oil cooler of only 2.75
square inches. Oil temps ran at 210F in cruise and crept up at slower speeds
toward 220F. (oil pressure was 60 psig at this time) Ambient temps were in
the low eighties. I then increased the opening area to 4.5 square inches.
Oil temps dropped to 180 degrees when ambient was below 75 degrees. I had to
closed the oil door to keep temps at 180 when ambient temp went below 65F.
Oil temps tended to rise at speeds below cruise but stabilized at 190 to
200F. The oil door was definitely opened for landing and slow flight. I then
opened up the air inlet area another square inch. I now have 5.5 square
inches of opening. For comparison, a 3 inch duct yields an opening of about
7.1 square inches. Cruise conditions didn't change but the need to open the
oil cooler door or the trend toward higher oil temps in slow flight mitigated
somewhat. I would record a high oil temp from a day of testing of 190F. The
oil temp was becoming a non-issue. Then I raised the oil pressure to 75
psig. Oil temps have been running 200 to 210F.
I think I will try the folks at Textron to see if I can rustle up an oil
flow diagram.
Cheers,
Tom Brown RV4 flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM |
Vince, I was told that a little oil canning in a metal airplane was
unavoidable, however I had 2 bays in my wings that oil canned, so I laminated
a strip of .025 4 inches wide to the middle of the bay with pro seal, using a
bag full of water to hold the skin in the ballooned out position until the
pro seal cured. It seemed to work well, but then again wont know the full
extent until flying, parking in the sun, ect.
Kevin
-9A
waiting for fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcbraem(at)home.com.with.ESMTP (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) |
| Subject: | Re:Flight testing - Oil pressure/Temperature Changes |
RV4Brown(at)AOL.COM wrote:
The 4-cyl. lubrication diagram is page 2-2, fig. 2-3 of the Lycoming
Overhaul Manual for Direct Drive Engines, part#60294-7.
Boyd
>
>
> Gentlemen:
>
> I appreciate the responses to my query regarding the change in oil
> temperature seen when I raised the oil pressure in my engine for 60 to 75
> psig. The thesis presented seem reasonable, but I think there are still some
> unknowns that make it difficult to come to a conclusion.
> I am looking for a one line schematic of the oil system to understand
> where in the system the oil pressure ball valve is positioned. Assuming that
> the oil pump is a geared (more or less) positive displacement pump, the
> increase in oil pressure downstream of the pump may or may not increase the
> total oil flow because the pump speed hasn't changed. I can certainly
> understand why an increase in pressure would increase flow through the
> various oil ports and bearings in the engine. The ball valve regulates the
> pressure in the engine by applying a pressure restriction in the system.
> Where does the oil go that passes by the ball valve through the regulation
> process? Does it go back to the sump, through the oil screen, to the oil
> cooler? I don't know exactly where the oil that has passed through the engine
> to the oil cooler exits from the system relative to the oil screen, the
> temperature probe and the oil temperature control valve. Does the oil temp
> valve always bypass at least some oil or does it have a closed position?
> When it is closed, does it bypass the oil back to the engine sump? Does 100%
> of the oil circulating through the engine pass through the oil screen? How is
> oil that has passed through the engine crankshaft bearings find its way back
> to the oil cooler or does it just drop back into the sump? The oil passing
> through the oil cooler enters from the bottom of the cooler which should push
> any air in the internal system out of the cooler. Does the oil cooler see any
> amount of back pressure? What is the source of the feed oil actually fed to
> the oil cooler?
>
> I think I could understand the system better if I could see a diagram of
> the oil pathways. Given all the posts in the past regarding oil coolers and
> air duct sizing, hot engine temps, etc., maybe its time to get a better
> education as to how that fluid is traversing through our engines. I my mind
> I am still trying to understand if pushing more oil through the engine
> pressure ports via higher oil pressure and therefore bypassing less oil
> through the oil pressure control valve is removing more heat from the engine
> and hence the higher oil temperatures appear at the cooler. If this is the
> case, the higher temps are a good thing as my engine parts should be running
> cooler than they were before.
>
> A bit of operational history:
> I am using a Sam James pressure plenum on the O-360. My cylinder temps
> typically run within fifteen degrees of each other with 325F being a typical
> cruise temp. Exhaust temps with the fuel injection system run within 40
> degrees and typically are set at 1450F when leaned. Many times in stabilized
> cruise, all four exhaust probes are reading the same and all four cylinder
> probes are reading the same. The oil cooler is mounted off the rear of
> number four cylinder. When I first placed the system into service, I had an
> effective air inlet area from the plenum to the oil cooler of only 2.75
> square inches. Oil temps ran at 210F in cruise and crept up at slower speeds
> toward 220F. (oil pressure was 60 psig at this time) Ambient temps were in
> the low eighties. I then increased the opening area to 4.5 square inches.
> Oil temps dropped to 180 degrees when ambient was below 75 degrees. I had to
> closed the oil door to keep temps at 180 when ambient temp went below 65F.
> Oil temps tended to rise at speeds below cruise but stabilized at 190 to
> 200F. The oil door was definitely opened for landing and slow flight. I then
> opened up the air inlet area another square inch. I now have 5.5 square
> inches of opening. For comparison, a 3 inch duct yields an opening of about
> 7.1 square inches. Cruise conditions didn't change but the need to open the
> oil cooler door or the trend toward higher oil temps in slow flight mitigated
> somewhat. I would record a high oil temp from a day of testing of 190F. The
> oil temp was becoming a non-issue. Then I raised the oil pressure to 75
> psig. Oil temps have been running 200 to 210F.
>
> I think I will try the folks at Textron to see if I can rustle up an oil
> flow diagram.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tom Brown RV4 flying
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | was: Alternator Question; now: New Thinking |
Bill Ludwig wrote:
>
>
> Based on that, I guess Van's needs a course in aircraft electrical wiring...
>
Not necessarily, we just need to keep in mind that the wiring
architecture in the Van's diagram is based on "conventional" (fifty
years old....) thinking.
There are better ways of wiring an aircraft. "The AeroElectric
Connection" is a one source for the description of a modern wiring
scheme that eliminates some of the shortcomings of the old thinking.
Great emphasis is placed on eliminating single-point failures and fresh
ways of arranging various components of the electrical system.
I am sending this post for the benefit of new builders who may not be
aware that there are excellent alternatives to the wiring diagrams in
the builders manual. Yes, the old diagrams will work, but we can now do
much better. This is one of the beauties of building experimental
aircraft, we can break away from old thinking if we wish.
You can see a review of the "AeroElectric Connection" by an admittedly
biased writer here:
http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/AeroElectric.html
I highly recommend that all builders give this tome a good look before
you decide on the wiring scheme of your project. I have the dual-bus
system in 399SB and so far no smoke has escaped from the system. :-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 177 hrs, all electrons safely contained)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Voltage Regulator |
08/28/2000 11:11:50 AM
reposted
RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)(at)matronics.com on 08/28/2000 08:47:22 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
I am a retired electrian and I believe I can tell pretty much what's
going on with a voltmeter.Get a Mark Landoll solid state regulator,set
it at 14 volts,put a small dab of locktite on the adjusting screw and
you will be in good shape. Hope this helps.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com> |
Bob,
Since you're building a QB, you may not need a bandsaw per other's posts. I
am building a slow-build -6A, and I wouldn't want to be without mine. I
have a cheapie benchtop model from Harbor, and it works great using 14tpi
wood blades.
Jim Bower
St. Louis, MO
RV-6A N143DJ
>From: "Bob Waalkes" <waalkes(at)netnitco.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Band Saw
>Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:14:52 -0500
>
>
>I just purchased a ProTech 9" bandsaw from Lowe's for $89 and I'm having
>second thoughts. I've found some info in the archives about the table top
>models designed for wood and composites work fine for the thin aluminum we
>are using. But, I noticed that Harbor Freight is selling a model that is
>on
>it's own bench and cuts vertically and horizontally AND is designed for
>metalworking for $140. Does anyone have any input on which is the best for
>building the RV? I'm also considering the Craftsman variable speed floor
>stand drill press (about $250) if anyone has any input.
>
>Bob Waalkes
>RV-8 QB Waiting on Emp.
>
>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com> |
I found a method of preventing oilcanning, and employed it on my left
elevator. (My right elevator has a small amount of oilcanning.) As luck
would have it, the left elevator oilcans more than the right! And after all
that work, too. Oh well. Thing is, I posted oilcanning questions to the
list and the consensus is (1): most metal airplanes do it...(2): direct
sunlight and/or cold will change the oilcanning properties of the metal...
(3): You won't hear it when you're flying, so go ahead and build the next
part and forget it.
Jim Bower
St. Louis, MO
RV-6A N143DJ
>From: "Vince Welch" <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "RV List"
>Subject: RV-List: Oil Canning
>Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 23:24:28 -0400
>
>
>Hey guys,
>
>I just closed up my wing and I have an oil can in one section on the
>bottom. I can reach it through an access panel and was considering
>riveting in a stiffener. If I go this route, should the stiffener be
>parallel to the ribs or perpendicular?
>
>Vince Welch
>RV-8A Wings
>Roaming Shores, Ohio
>
>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re:Flight testing - Oil pressure/Temperature Changes |
In a message dated 08/28/2000 7:57:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rembree(at)sympatico.ca writes:
<< So, although the oil temperature is higher where the temperature sensor
is, the amount of heat
removed from the engine oil is the same.
>>
yes, elsewise the engine would grow hotter until something melted... hard to
imagine this happening from a mere boost in oil pressure.
What I've wondered all week is: if the oil moving faster through the cooler
gives it less time to exchange heat and therefore exits the cooler at higher
temp, does it not also flow through the engine faster, giving it less time to
absorb heat, and by exactly the same percentage? Sounds lake a wash, to me.
Hard to see why there would be any net increase in operating temp as a result
of faster oil circulation.
If that were so, we could REALLY cool our engines by slowing the oil flow WAY
down... NOT.
Show me if I've missed something ...
Bill Boyd
RV-6A O-320 Sensenich FP
Hop-Along Airfield 12VA
Clifton Forge, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rywessel(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | re: Wiring lights |
Thanks for your suggestions-
The reason I want to use a rotary switch (and relays) is to provide visual and
tactile feedback for the switches on the panel. Auto makers use different types
of witches to denote different uses.
Robin wessel
--------------------------
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wiring lights
>I am in the process of planning my wiring. My idea is to use a rotary switch
>to select pos1)taxi pos 2)landing + taxi and 3)pulse. This system would not
>allow me to use the landing light without the taxi light. Am I giving up
>something? If I were to simplify even more, is there a reason why the taxi
>light and landing light cannot be simply ganged together?
>
>thanks,
>
>robin wessel
I hooked them both together. I can't imagine using one without the other.
You might want to reconsider using a toggle for this operation. I have the
landing light flasher from Galls hooked up with a toggle that gives me ( off -
both on - flash ) that works great. I can't imagine a rotary that could handle
the current load without going through a bank of relays.
- Jim
RV-8A ( Engine stuff )
O-360 ( Sensenich )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rywessel(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | re: Wiring lights |
Thanks for your suggestions-
The reason I want to use a rotary switch (and relays) is to provide visual and
tactile feedback for the switches on the panel. Auto makers use different types
of switches to denote different uses.
Robin wessel
--------------------------
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wiring lights
>I am in the process of planning my wiring. My idea is to use a rotary switch
>to select pos1)taxi pos 2)landing + taxi and 3)pulse. This system would not
>allow me to use the landing light without the taxi light. Am I giving up
>something? If I were to simplify even more, is there a reason why the taxi
>light and landing light cannot be simply ganged together?
>
>thanks,
>
>robin wessel
I hooked them both together. I can't imagine using one without the other.
You might want to reconsider using a toggle for this operation. I have the
landing light flasher from Galls hooked up with a toggle that gives me ( off -
both on - flash ) that works great. I can't imagine a rotary that could handle
the current load without going through a bank of relays.
- Jim
RV-8A ( Engine stuff )
O-360 ( Sensenich )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com |
| Subject: | Re: re: Wiring lights |
Robin,
I totally understand this mode of thinking. I went through a lot of design and
redesign of my layout before reaching my perfect match. I was also heavily
influenced by ergonomics. I made sure that switches were not only reachable but
were grouped according to their function. All the lights in one group. The
flap and fuel pump switches three feet away from any other switches. No more
than five switches grouped together in one cluster. I even went with the three
position fuel pump primer switch to insure that I would have the fuel pump on
when priming.
Lots of good design ideas out there if you dig hard enough.
- Jim
Rywessel(at)AOL.COM on 08/29/2000 12:57:03 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: re: Wiring lights
Thanks for your suggestions-
The reason I want to use a rotary switch (and relays) is to provide visual and
tactile feedback for the switches on the panel. Auto makers use different types
of switches to denote different uses.
Robin wessel
--------------------------
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wiring lights
>I am in the process of planning my wiring. My idea is to use a rotary switch
>to select pos1)taxi pos 2)landing + taxi and 3)pulse. This system would not
>allow me to use the landing light without the taxi light. Am I giving up
>something? If I were to simplify even more, is there a reason why the taxi
>light and landing light cannot be simply ganged together?
>
>thanks,
>
>robin wessel
I hooked them both together. I can't imagine using one without the other.
You might want to reconsider using a toggle for this operation. I have the
landing light flasher from Galls hooked up with a toggle that gives me ( off -
both on - flash ) that works great. I can't imagine a rotary that could handle
the current load without going through a bank of relays.
- Jim
RV-8A ( Engine stuff )
O-360 ( Sensenich )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: was: Alternator Question; now: New Thinking |
> I have the dual-bus
> system in 399SB and so far no smoke has escaped from the system. :-)
Whoa...a smoke containment system....now that's cool. :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com> |
Only 10 days away !
I thought I'd post a reminder......
To all listers within traveling distance...
San Jose, CA's EAA Chapter 62 will be presenting it's 3rd annual RV Builders
Forum
on Thursday Sept 7th.
Location will be at Reid Hill View Airport (RHV) in Vern Miller's
Maintenance Hanger.
Guest Speaker is Ken Krueger from Van's Aircraft. Ken will arrive in the new
RV9
and will present a slide show on Van's new facility in Aurora, Or. as well
as speaking
about the RV9.
Cleveland Tools, Avery Tools, George and Becki Orndorff, and The Builders
Bookstore have all contributed
door prizes and catalogs.
The prizes so far include hand tools, 18 Years of the RVator, and a Canopy
Cover
for the RV series aircraft.
We will have aircraft on Display along with tool displays, and member's
projects
in various stages.
The fun starts at 6:30 p.m. with the hot dog and hanger flying hour.
The meeting will begin promptly at 7:30.
If your interested in displaying your aircraft, or would like to participate
in any manner, please contact me off-line
For more details contact Ed Cole
408-530-6605 W
408-257-3281 H
edwardmcole(at)home.com (home email address)
________________________________________________________________________________
For large power tools, try checking your local classified ads. For less than
the price of a cheap new tool, you can get quality used tools. Some of them
even come with extra accessories. A quality tool, unless abused, will last
you a lifetime. I fill my shop with quality used tools for about 30 cents on
a dollar.
Good luck hunting.
Chuck - RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clifford Begnaud" <cbegnaud(at)bigfoot.com> |
I was at the airport this morning flying the Kitfox. When finished, I
stopped by the FBO for refreshments and noticed that UPS was making a
delivery. After querying the driver about his route we determined that he
delivered to my neighborhood. He looked to see if he had anything for me,
and sure enough, he had my tail kit. So, I took delivery of it, right there
at the airport. Most appropriate, I thought.
Now the fun starts.
Cliff
RV9A Kit # 90133
N782PC (reserved)
taking inventory
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clayfly(at)libertybay.com.Tue, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0005388835@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Tue,
29 Aug 2000 14:37:54.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | N9X takes flight! |
Fellow Listers,
A great day! At dawn this morning, I lined RV-4 N9X up on runway 21 at Franklin
Flying
Field and pored the coals to'er. Man can she climb! And ohh, what a view! And
wow,
does the ground scoot along fast below!
I followed my test plan, kept her within gliding distance of the field, and walked
her through
the paces. I used a tiny tape recorder to dictate my gripe list, performance info
and engine
temperatures/pressure. This worked well --- much better than trying to record
them on a
knee board. Gripe list consisted of a heavy right wing. When I landed and removed
the
cowling I had some things that definitely needed to be tended to.
The landing was fun. Those gear legs have lots of spring in them. We went bouncy,
bouncy
bouncy on the turf strip. Learning to land this thing is going to be fun --- it'll
take some
finesse I think.
I want to do it again! Soon! Like right now! OK, tomorrow at dawn I'll be climbing
up
through the morning haze and we'll do it all over again.
Thanks to all who have helped me prepare for this day.
Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X, 1.6 hours
Indiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N9X takes flight! |
Congrats! A wonderful experience I am sure. Now tell the inquiring minds
what needed attending to under the cowling?
Bill
----- Original Message -----
SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ;Tue" <B0005388835@mail-2.lbay.net>; <29 Aug 2000
14:37:54.-0700(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 5:43 PM
Subject: RV-List: N9X takes flight!
>
> Fellow Listers,
> A great day! At dawn this morning, I lined RV-4 N9X up on runway 21 at
Franklin Flying
> Field and pored the coals to'er. Man can she climb! And ohh, what a
view! And wow,
> does the ground scoot along fast below!
>
> I followed my test plan, kept her within gliding distance of the field,
and walked her through
> the paces. I used a tiny tape recorder to dictate my gripe list,
performance info and engine
> temperatures/pressure. This worked well --- much better than trying to
record them on a
> knee board. Gripe list consisted of a heavy right wing. When I landed
and removed the
> cowling I had some things that definitely needed to be tended to.
>
> The landing was fun. Those gear legs have lots of spring in them. We
went bouncy, bouncy
> bouncy on the turf strip. Learning to land this thing is going to be
fun --- it'll take some
> finesse I think.
>
> I want to do it again! Soon! Like right now! OK, tomorrow at dawn I'll
be climbing up
> through the morning haze and we'll do it all over again.
>
> Thanks to all who have helped me prepare for this day.
>
> Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X, 1.6 hours
> Indiana
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Flight testing - Oil pressure/Temperature Changes |
August 24, 2000 - August 29, 2000
RV-Archive.digest.vol-jd