RV-Archive.digest.vol-jk
October 03, 2000 - October 09, 2000
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marty Santic <martinsan(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: how many RV-9A are presently under construction |
My brother and I are presently putting the empennage together. I also
have found that the kit is of very high quality. Although I only have
one-half of the horizontal stabilizer together, all pre-punched holes
lined up very well. The builder number here is 90174, ordered September
1, 2000. Since starting to watch this list a little more closely i have
compiled a list of approximately 12 RV-9A builders that have frequented
the list.
Marty
rlluster wrote:
>
>
> Jeff,
>
> I just got my wing kit last week, and it appears to be S/N 062. When I got
> my emp. I got builder # 90111, I have seen the number upto 90176.
>
> I have completed my Empennage for the RV9. I am a machinist and own a
> machine shop. I am very satisfied with the construction plans and manual
> supplied with the Empennage. I am now working on the wing kit, and have
> found that Vans expects the builder to learn as you go. Meaning that they
> are not as explicit on the wing manual as they are in the emp. manual.
>
> > From: "Jeff Moreau" <jeff(at)2wd.com>
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Bi-Fold hangar door
> >
> >
> > Does anyone know exactly how many RV-9A are presently under construction.
> I
> > have only seen three builders listed on the Vans website. I am about to
> > purchase the empenage kit for a 9 and would like to find out how many
> others
> > are out there. What do you guys think of the RV-9A. Any comments would
> be
> > greatly appreciated.
> > Jeff Moreau
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter laurence <plaurenc(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing inspection cover |
Mike,
It's builder fabed. I have a cad file for this cover if you like. mail
me offline
Peter
Mike Nellis wrote:
>
>
> To those that have the prepunched RV-6 wings, did you receive a cover plate
> for the bell crank inspection opening or is this builder fabricated?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas McIntyre <bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Copperstate race |
Hi all
How about a roll call on all those who are going to race in the
Copperstate Dash next week. It would be nice to have a strong
RV turnout this year.
Tom
RV3 978TM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BELTEDAIR(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Wing inspection cover |
Gentlemen, please check with Van as this cover may be a stress plate as it is
in an area of such.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing inspection cover |
--- Mike Nellis wrote:
>
> Scott, that's why I asked the original question. I'm going to make
> the
> wing inspection covers out of .030 lexan and install two rear
> fuselage
> covers (one on each side instead of just one) as well. I'll let you
> know
> how it goes
Guys, I had the exact same intention: Clear inspection ports (with
lighting) in wings and for the elevator connection aft.
After getting to where I am in the fuselage, though, I'm convinced the
elevator will just have to go on faith. Sitting on the tail (RV-6),
you just will not easily get up underneath there on a preflight to put
the extra work to good use.
A 6A would probably be able to use this mod to good effect.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Welch" <vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
I have a question for the -8/8A builders in the group. I will be
closing my left wing soon. As the NACA vent didn't come with the
wing kit, I can only assume that it is part of the fuselage kit. Is
it easy to install this vent after the wing is closed or should I
hold off closing up the wing until the fuselage kit arrives?
Vince Welch
RV-8A Wings
Roaming Shores, Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <Emrath(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting platenuts for tanks |
I used a bucking bar I made up for the Ailerons after seeing Sam Buchannan's
suggested bars for this. The face is cut at a 10 degree angle from right
angle and that allowed me to get in there and rivet that spot. I don't
think the shop head is all that important as others have indicated, the
screw is the strength and the rivet is just there to hold the nut plate on
when the screw is removed. As another builder always suggests to me, "move
on".
Marty in Brentwood TN.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Paulson" <cpaulson@paulson-training.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 12:14 PM
Subject: RV-List: Riveting platenuts for tanks
<cpaulson@paulson-training.com>
>
> In trying to rivet the tank attach platenuts onto the main spar of my
rv-6a
> last night, I discovered that I don't have enough room between where I
> drilled the platenut attach holes and the spar flange strips to rivet the
> platenuts on. The squeezer and the rivet gun will not fit. In most cases
> there is the shop head of a 3/16" rivet blocking access. I did try
squeezing
> a couple of them but the shop head came out with an unacceptable angle on
> it. If any else has had this problem I like to hear how you handled it. I
> don't see any option except pop rivets. Are they an option in this
location?
>
> Craig Paulson
> rv-6a tanks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott <acepilot(at)win.bright.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator balancing problems |
Are you missing any tools? :) Sorry, couln't resist. Trying to cheer
myself up...had a kind of **** day :(
Scott
RV4 Tail
Are Barstad wrote:
>
>
> Yes, the weights are now mounted as far forward as possible.
>
> For testing purposes: The left elevator would only balance if I placed both
> weights (on top of counter balance skins) with about 1" sticking out forward
> of the counter balance skin. The right elevator balanced when I placed both
> weights about 1/2" aft of the tip.
>
> It's very easy to accidentally bend the flanges on the leading edge spars
> when forming the leading edge. I only noticed in the manual after I was done
> that you have to attempt bending without putting too much pressure on the
> flanges. It's not easy though but I think it would have turned out better if
> I had another try at it :) It looks nice but when or if you bend the
> flanges, oil canning WILL occur. I had absolutely zero oil canning before
> forming the leading edges.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Are
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jack Textor
> Sent: October 3, 2000 7:17 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; 'Are Barstad'
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Elevator balancing problems
>
>
> Are,
> I'm close to balancing mine, I too am interested in others thoughts. Did
> you mount the weights as far forward as possible? Also regarding the oil
> canning, could you explain further about bending the spar flanges.
> Thanks,
> Jack
> Des Moines, IA
> RV8 Elevators
>
> I'm having trouble balancing the elevators on my RV-8. The right elevator is
> ok (just barely!) but the left elevator is simply too heavy for the counter
> balance weights that Van's supplied. I suspect this may be due to the
> heavier .020 skins on the -8's.
>
> Anyone else experienced this? It's not even painted yet...
>
> I also have a slight oil canning after forming the leading edge on both
> elevators and rudder. I discovered it's caused by inadvertently bending the
> flange of the main spars. I have remedied most of it but there is still some
> very minor oil canning. Hopefully it will be safe to fly with. These .020
> leading edges were &!@$#!@ to bend!!!
>
> Are
> RV-8
>
--
--Scott--
1986 Corben Junior Ace N3642
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
RV-4 under construction (tail feathers)
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6-A Tip-up Instument Panel Supports |
Ross Mickey wrote:
> I am laying out my 6-A panel and am finding the F-645's are in a terrible
> place. These are the "ribs" that tie the subpanel to the instrument panel.
> I just called Vans and was told that on the tip up canopy, the instrument
> panel is not structural and it would be fine to move these.
You can probably move the F645, but be aware of the hinge bracket and
instruments and radios that are deeper than 6", and their
cable/presssure/vacuum connections that may foul F646(?).
Richard Reynolds Norfolk, VA, RV-6A, still wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net |
| Subject: | Facet Fuel Pump Reorientation |
Listers,
My Facet fuel pump stoped clanging last weekend. I have 150hrs on the
engine and am not sure if the pump was new at installation time since I
bought the plane. I went to turn on the Master switch followed by the pump
switch and it sounded similar to how my car would sound sometimes when turn
the key - silence. To make the story short, I ordered a new one and at the
same time searched the archive and found that my horizontal install wasn't
ideal. In fact, eye-balling the pump gave me the impression that the output
fitting is actually slightly lowever than the input fitting. I've decided
to re-orient the Facet pump so that it would sit vertical. Please hear my
intention. All comments are welcome.
Current system has mechanical and Facet pumps installed in parallel. Both
get fuel from the output of the gascolator. The output of both are joined
together by means of a T-fitting, then goes to the carb. Pressure gauge is
tapped into the mech pump side and downstream from it.
1. New Facet is cylindrical in shape (so was old one) and has anti-siphon
feature.
2. Old one is mounted on the firewall, engine side, along one of the
vertical firewall stiffeners (makes the pump lie horizontal).
3. Center of old one was about 7 inches from the bottom of cowl.
4. New one will be mounted on a base plate and base plate will be mounted
on the firewall using the existing holes. base plate will be turned 90deg
so that pump is vertical.
5. Output hose is kept unchanged (about 12 inches long).
6. Old input hose is also about 12 inches making a U-turn to connect the
two fittings (pump input and gascolator output) that were about 8 inches
apart.
7. Pump input will be closer to gascolator output once it sits vertical so
the old input hose will make more of a U-turn bend. The two fittings are
only 4 1/4 apart. I'm afraid the bend is too sharp so a new hose will be
made - 4 1/4 inches long with 90deg fittings at the ends going from
gascolator output to pump input - no bends. No give either. (This is my
worst concern).
8. Center of new pump will be about 2 inches lower when installed verticaly.
9. Planning to use 3/32 inch alum for base plate, which will be about 4inch
square.
Oh,
Sometimes (65% of the time) the pump sounded like it never self-primed under
the old installation. The clangs never slowed down and build up pressure.
But it would do so easily after engine start as evident by turning the pump
switch on/off while watching the fuel press gauge. The facet pump would
increase the press by about 1/2psi. Between 4-4 1/2 on the gauge. When
this happens I just turn the pump off until after engine start.
I disconnected the two hoses from the pump today and no fuel drained out of
the pump. Maybe 10 drops at most. The pump goes dry every time I turn the
engine off.
Perhaps the anti-siphoning feature of the new pump and its vertical
orientation will prevent this under the new installation.
Thanks in advance,
Anh
N985VU-flying
Maryland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pdsmith <pdsmith(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NACA Air Vent |
It's pretty easy to install after the fact. I had to buy the vent kit from
the catalog to get the NACA scoops - none were included in the kit.
Phil, 80691
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Facet Fuel Pump Reorientation |
> I've decided
> to re-orient the Facet pump so that it would sit vertical.
I am assuming you know that Facet recommends a 45 degree installation.
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> |
| Subject: | Elevator balancing problems - Problem Solved!!! |
hehe - I shouldn't laugh though. I once lost my watch until I found it a
year later in a Beaver that I had worked on. It was laying on the floor in
the belly were I had done an inspection of coax cables and connectors for
the previous annual.
Thanks to Chris Sheehan's message I measured the weights and discovered I
was shipped the weights for the .016 skins - not the .020's. Oh well, if I
need lead elsewhere later, I'll have some extra...
Thanks so much all of you for helping me. This probably saved me from
pouring extra lead. I should have known better though by looking at the 1:1
scale drawings of the tips. Sure enough - mine are 1" too short.
Are
RV-8
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott
Sent: October 3, 2000 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator balancing problems
Are you missing any tools? :) Sorry, couln't resist. Trying to cheer
myself up...had a kind of **** day :(
Scott
RV4 Tail
Are Barstad wrote:
>
>
> Yes, the weights are now mounted as far forward as possible.
>
> For testing purposes: The left elevator would only balance if I placed
both
> weights (on top of counter balance skins) with about 1" sticking out
forward
> of the counter balance skin. The right elevator balanced when I placed
both
> weights about 1/2" aft of the tip.
>
> It's very easy to accidentally bend the flanges on the leading edge spars
> when forming the leading edge. I only noticed in the manual after I was
done
> that you have to attempt bending without putting too much pressure on the
> flanges. It's not easy though but I think it would have turned out better
if
> I had another try at it :) It looks nice but when or if you bend the
> flanges, oil canning WILL occur. I had absolutely zero oil canning before
> forming the leading edges.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Are
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jack Textor
> Sent: October 3, 2000 7:17 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; 'Are Barstad'
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Elevator balancing problems
>
>
> Are,
> I'm close to balancing mine, I too am interested in others thoughts. Did
> you mount the weights as far forward as possible? Also regarding the oil
> canning, could you explain further about bending the spar flanges.
> Thanks,
> Jack
> Des Moines, IA
> RV8 Elevators
>
> I'm having trouble balancing the elevators on my RV-8. The right elevator
is
> ok (just barely!) but the left elevator is simply too heavy for the
counter
> balance weights that Van's supplied. I suspect this may be due to the
> heavier .020 skins on the -8's.
>
> Anyone else experienced this? It's not even painted yet...
>
> I also have a slight oil canning after forming the leading edge on both
> elevators and rudder. I discovered it's caused by inadvertently bending
the
> flange of the main spars. I have remedied most of it but there is still
some
> very minor oil canning. Hopefully it will be safe to fly with. These .020
> leading edges were &!@$#!@ to bend!!!
>
> Are
> RV-8
>
--
--Scott--
1986 Corben Junior Ace N3642
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
RV-4 under construction (tail feathers)
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gusndale(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Wing inspection cover |
In a message dated 10/3/00 3:15:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mnellis(at)emailusa.net writes:
<< To those that have the prepunched RV-6 wings, did you receive a cover
plate
for the bell crank inspection opening or is this builder fabricated? >>
My wing kit is prepunched and did require builder fabrication of the
bell crank cover plates. It was purchased about 31/2 years ago though so
things may have changed since then.
Dale Wotring
Vancouver, WA
RV6A,
Lycoming 0-360A2A
Sensennich Fixed Pitch (84)
working on panel
________________________________________________________________________________
>I have a question for the -8/8A builders in the group. I will be
closing my left wing soon. As the NACA vent didn't come with the
wing kit, I can only assume that it is part of the fuselage kit. Is
it easy to install this vent after the wing is closed or should I
hold off closing up the wing until the fuselage kit arrives?<
Vince,
I think it's almost just as easy after the skin is already done. You can
reach in through the rib holes to seal and rivet it. That way it will form
to the curve properly. If you mount it with the skin off you *could* cause a
flat spot.
Others may disagree, your mileage may vary, btw, it's in the right wing.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, cowling finish work (PPG K38 is great stuff!)
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Copperstate race |
--- Thomas McIntyre
wrote:
>
> Hi all
> How about a roll call on all those who are going to
> race in the
> Copperstate Dash next week. It would be nice to have
> a strong
> RV turnout this year.
> Tom
> RV3 978TM
>
Tom:
I am unable this year. I will be in Pennsylvania that
weekend.
It was reported that Paul Rosales and Laird Owens from
SoCAL Wing Van's Air Force would be in the race. I
also know that Scott McDanials wants to run the RV-9A
but still needs to get Van's approval.
Have fun without me. See you next year.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
698+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Luster" <rlluster(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heated pitot tube |
Hi Listers,
I am building the wings on an RV9, and I am looking for opinions on using
the pitot tube that comes with the kit, or use one of the heated tubes that
are available. I live in the Pacific Northwest and we do sometimes get a
little cool.
Thanks in advance.
Richard Luster
RV9A, wings #062
Marysville, WA
rlluster(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heated pitot tube |
Richard Luster wrote:
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> I am building the wings on an RV9, and I am looking for opinions on using
> the pitot tube that comes with the kit, or use one of the heated tubes that
> are available. I live in the Pacific Northwest and we do sometimes get a
> little cool.
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Richard Luster
> RV9A, wings #062
> Marysville, WA
> rlluster(at)msn.com
>
>
Richard are you going to be flying IFR? IF yes then use pitot heat
if not then you don't need it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Scuttlebutt |
>
> Thought I'd dump a rumor on you guys. A friend of
> mine with a very fast RV6, was
> talking to another very reputable builder with a
> very, very fast RV6 and he said
> Van told him that the 150hp RV9 goes as fast as an
> RV6 with same HP. The reason
> being that the trailing edges of the control
> surfaces are flat like a Cessenas
> and this greatly reduces drag. Seems Mr. very, Very
> fast RV6 was on his way to
> build him a set. This person shall remain nameless,
> at least until you see flat
> trailing edges on his control surfaces. My little
> mind was boggled by this.
>
> Does this seem feasable? Uh, Kevin?
>
> Please, discuss amongst yourselves.
>
> Eric Henson
> Fuse Crap
Eric:
If you were at the Golden West Fly-In earlier this
month, you would have seen the RV-9A depart Friday and
Saturday evening in formation with my airplane and
arrive Saturday and Sunday mornings in formation with
me on its wing. The RV-9A has an O-320 and MT
constant speed prop. I have an O-320 and Hartzell
constant speed prop. The takeoff roll with both
aircraft at full throttle has the RV-9A accelerating
faster and breaking ground in 2/3s of my ground roll.
After leveling off at 2,500 and crusing along at about
150 KIAS, both aircraft put everything forward. The
RV-9A again out accelerated and pulled almost 3
aircraft lenghts ahead. As the airspeed settled
around 166 KIAS, the RV-9A was pulling away from my
RV-6.
RACE results from my airplane can be found at:
http://listproc.eracer.org/RACE/mesquite1199.html
Copperstate Dash 1999 results for my aircraft was
published in 1999 "Sport Aviation."
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
698+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin updates was ( Controlvision stuff ) |
Garmin has a update service via disk mailer you cn get it twie yearly like i
do for a resonalble fee
contact garmin costomer service.
Pat N314EP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | RV6A Pressure Recovery Nose Wheel Fairing |
I am in the process of fitting Van's PR fairing to the nose wheel. I notice
that the brackets that are riveted to the fairing at the axle location do
not touch the wheel assembly...there is about 3/8" inch "gap" between the
fairing brackets and the wheel axle surfaces on both sides when the fairing
is centered.
Question: Should this gap be filled with washers (tedious to say the least)
or should the gap be
compressed with the axle bolt and the fairing 'squeezed' together to
eliminate the gaps?
I don't like squeezing the fairing...it would cause problems at the front
where the nose 'cap' attaches and probably would require a lot of fairing to
be cut away to avoid rubbing on the tire.
What did you folks do? Or didn't you have the problem?
RV6A Flying
Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F687/F606 Attachment |
Mike,
You are correct, but you are in luck....the 687 only catches 3 of the 4
rivets!
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
-6 fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 9:52 PM
Subject: RV-List: F687/F606 Attachment
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I have to admit to being a little unhappy this evening - I am a bit
> flummoxed over how to attach the 687 rib to the 606 bulkhead.
> There are some hits in the archives, but they do not address my
> problem, Frank J. is vague (unbelievable!), Frank V. doesn't mention
> it, and, well, here's the problem:
>
> When I line up the 687 on the centerline the front flange sits right
> where I placed that nice line of flush (forward) rivets which hold the
> 606 bulkhead together.
>
> I've re-read the manual and notes on the bulkhead assembly and there is
> no mention of allowing for this development. I can only surmise that I
> am to drill out the rivets and back-drill through the 606 into the 687
> flange, then rivet the whole thing together.
>
> Am I missing something? This had to happen - progress was going so
> well!
>
> Mike Thompson
> Austin, TX
> -6 N140RV (Reserved)
> Fuselage
>
>
> Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net |
| Subject: | Re: Facet Fuel Pump Reorientation |
Ross,
Yes I read that in the archive but I thought that anything other than
horizontal is ok. It makes the reorientation a little tougher but I will
reconsider. Thanks
Anh
>
>
>> I've decided
>> to re-orient the Facet pump so that it would sit vertical.
>
>I am assuming you know that Facet recommends a 45 degree installation.
>
>Ross
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator in trail? |
-----Original Message-----
From: Are Barstad <abarstad(at)bconnex.net>
Date: Thursday, September 28, 2000 11:15 PM
Subject: RV-List: Elevator in trail?
>
>Thanks a miilion to all that answered my earlier posts!
>
>I noticed that one horn is about 1/8" lower than the other when the counter
>balance skins are aligned with HS>
You are right on the money! The horns come with a built-in error of about
1/8 inch.
>Also, the counter balance skins are rubbing the HS skin were the HS tips
are
>to be installed when adjusting the rod-end bolts to specs. Do I back off
>with the bolts or trim the skin (pre-punch).
Do something to get the recommended 1/8 MINIMUM gap. If you ever pick up
ice this is a prime location for ice accretion.
>
>>Are
>RV-8
When you affix the elevators, each in trail according to the balance weight
ends (because the geometry of the trailing edges of the elevators precludes
easy alignment), drill a "sacrificial" hole away from the rod end bearing
location to fix the horns -- if you like this alignment, put in a bushing
and an extra AN3 bolt to hold the alignment for the critical rod end bearing
drilling. Keep this bolt and bushing intact. If you don't like it, try
another and you will have an extra little lightening hole.
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 0.0 hours
Hampshire, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Facet Fuel Pump Reorientation |
(Please reset your computer's date.)
I think the recommended orientation is a 45 degree slant, output on top.
Finn
wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net wrote:
>
> Listers,
> My Facet fuel pump stoped clanging last weekend. I have 150hrs on the
> engine and am not sure if the pump was new at installation time since I
> bought the plane. I went to turn on the Master switch followed by the pump
> switch and it sounded similar to how my car would sound sometimes when turn
> the key - silence. To make the story short, I ordered a new one and at the
> same time searched the archive and found that my horizontal install wasn't
> ideal. In fact, eye-balling the pump gave me the impression that the output
> fitting is actually slightly lowever than the input fitting. I've decided
> to re-orient the Facet pump so that it would sit vertical. Please hear my
> intention. All comments are welcome.
>
> Current system has mechanical and Facet pumps installed in parallel. Both
> get fuel from the output of the gascolator. The output of both are joined
> together by means of a T-fitting, then goes to the carb. Pressure gauge is
> tapped into the mech pump side and downstream from it.
>
> 1. New Facet is cylindrical in shape (so was old one) and has anti-siphon
> feature.
> 2. Old one is mounted on the firewall, engine side, along one of the
> vertical firewall stiffeners (makes the pump lie horizontal).
> 3. Center of old one was about 7 inches from the bottom of cowl.
> 4. New one will be mounted on a base plate and base plate will be mounted
> on the firewall using the existing holes. base plate will be turned 90deg
> so that pump is vertical.
> 5. Output hose is kept unchanged (about 12 inches long).
> 6. Old input hose is also about 12 inches making a U-turn to connect the
> two fittings (pump input and gascolator output) that were about 8 inches
> apart.
> 7. Pump input will be closer to gascolator output once it sits vertical so
> the old input hose will make more of a U-turn bend. The two fittings are
> only 4 1/4 apart. I'm afraid the bend is too sharp so a new hose will be
> made - 4 1/4 inches long with 90deg fittings at the ends going from
> gascolator output to pump input - no bends. No give either. (This is my
> worst concern).
> 8. Center of new pump will be about 2 inches lower when installed verticaly.
> 9. Planning to use 3/32 inch alum for base plate, which will be about 4inch
> square.
>
> Oh,
> Sometimes (65% of the time) the pump sounded like it never self-primed under
> the old installation. The clangs never slowed down and build up pressure.
> But it would do so easily after engine start as evident by turning the pump
> switch on/off while watching the fuel press gauge. The facet pump would
> increase the press by about 1/2psi. Between 4-4 1/2 on the gauge. When
> this happens I just turn the pump off until after engine start.
>
> I disconnected the two hoses from the pump today and no fuel drained out of
> the pump. Maybe 10 drops at most. The pump goes dry every time I turn the
> engine off.
> Perhaps the anti-siphoning feature of the new pump and its vertical
> orientation will prevent this under the new installation.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Anh
> N985VU-flying
> Maryland
Why pay for something you could get for free?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
You will need it if you're ever going to fly to Mexico or the Bahamas.
Finn
> > While cleaning out my wallet I found an FCC restriced radiotelephone
> > operators permit . Since I don't remember when or where I got this,
> > perhaps someone can tell me if I need it for anything "flying" related.
> > If not, what is it for?
Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
| Subject: | All Electric on a Budget Questions |
Bob,
I am going to use the architecture you outlined in your ""All Electric on a
Budget" article which also is illustrated as Z-8 in your book.
A few questions:
1) Why do you run the SD-8 alternator through the battery bus? I see the
logic in running the 12 gauge wire from the shunt of the SD-8 to the battery
contactor as this gives you the ability to power items on the main bus with
the SD-8 if the battery contactor is closed but why put another set of
connections (the battery bus) in between the battery contactor and the
essential bus switch?
2) Does the e-bus switch have to be somehow more "heavy duty" since it
will be caring all the current?
3) I see you use a SPDT relay to bring the SD-8 on line. If we hooked
the e-bus directly to the battery contactor with 12awg, would we need to use
a SPDT relay here?
4) Why would you need a loadmeter and shunt for the SD-8 since you would
only be using it in emergencies?
Now for a different set of questions based on assuming I would want to have
the SD-8 on line all the time, not just in emergencies. The reasons for
this would be two-fold....since I am caring the weight and the alternator is
generating 8-10 volts anyway, why not use it? And secondly, maybe I can
make due with a total of 48-50 amps by using both the SD-8 and a 40 amp main
alternator.
1) Since the SD-8 would be on line all the time, would I want to keep the
loadmeter and shunt for the SD-8 to be able to monitor its health?
2) I would run three pathways to the e-bus.
a) One a direct link from the SD-8 shunt using 12 awg and a 16
awg fusible link. (Normal operation: Bringing the SD-8 on line powers the
e-bus)
b) One from the main bus as is illustrated in Figure Z-8 for
normal operations except I would replace the diode with a switch. (SD-8
fails but main alternator is still good and powers both the main and e-bus.
Downside...I may have to shed some goodies off the main bus)
b) One off of the battery bus through a fuse or directly from
the battery contactor. (Both alternators fail and I run the e-bus off the
battery)
Ross Mickey
6-A
Eugene, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heated pitot tube |
Richard Luster wrote:
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> I am building the wings on an RV9, and I am looking for opinions on using
> the pitot tube that comes with the kit, or use one of the heated tubes that
> are available. I live in the Pacific Northwest and we do sometimes get a
> little cool.
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Richard Luster
> RV9A, wings #062
> Marysville, WA
> rlluster(at)msn.com
>
>
Richard are you going to be flying IFR? IF yes then use pitot heat
if not then you don't need it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Back Riveting |
09/26/2000 03:52:22 PM
I used a piece of stainless about the size of a pack of cigarettes, a
little thicker........anyway, this hand-held piece of metal was used by my
wife and myself to back rivet just about every rivet we could. Very
professional finish and less chance of hurting the metal with a lazy or
mis-directed rivet gun blow. If & when I did mess up the "ouch" was on the
inside or tail part of the rivet....another reason I like back riveting. I
sanded the metal round on the edges to fit the hand better.....basically
just dressed the block of steel on my sanding belt.
rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com@matronics.com on 09/26/2000 08:41:55 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com; Please respond to
rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Back Riveting
Greg,
A friend of mine back riveted his wings and fuselage wherever possible, and
they look great! I plan to do the same. Avery (and probably others) sells
a back-riveting set that is offset so ribs don't get in the way.
Jim Bower
>From: "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com, "Greg Tanner"
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Back Riveting
>Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 16:29:40 -0700
>
>
>Is there a quality problem with back riveting as many rivets as are
>accessible? Does back riveting provide an equal (or better)amount of
>clamping force as face riveting?
>
>Greg Tanner
>RV-9A Empennage
>SER #90186 N80BR (APPLIED FOR)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Back Riveting |
Greg,
A friend of mine back riveted his wings and fuselage wherever possible, and
they look great! I plan to do the same. Avery (and probably others) sells
a back-riveting set that is offset so ribs don't get in the way.
Jim Bower
>From: "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com, "Greg Tanner"
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Back Riveting
>Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 16:29:40 -0700
>
>
>Is there a quality problem with back riveting as many rivets as are
>accessible? Does back riveting provide an equal (or better)amount of
>clamping force as face riveting?
>
>Greg Tanner
>RV-9A Empennage
>SER #90186 N80BR (APPLIED FOR)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com> |
5.0.3 (Intl)|21 March 2000) at 10/04/2000 10:08:23 AM
Vince, the right wing NACA vent is included in the fuse kit (have no idea
why). I am also getting ready to close my wings and wanted to install the
vent before closing so I borrowed a vent from a friend who had an extra
one, and will give him the one that comes with my fuse kit in exchange.
I'm sure you could install it after the wing is closed but it would be a
bit easier to do it before closing.
--Mark Navratil
RV-8A wings, O-360-A4A
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
From: "Vince Welch" <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
Subject: RV-List: NACA Air Vent
I have a question for the -8/8A builders in the group. I will be
closing my left wing soon. As the NACA vent didn't come with the
wing kit, I can only assume that it is part of the fuselage kit. Is
it easy to install this vent after the wing is closed or should I
hold off closing up the wing until the fuselage kit arrives?
Vince Welch
RV-8A Wings
Roaming Shores, Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ray sheffield" <1052a(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Middlesboro fly-in |
Hi Jim,
I may fly my rv-6a to Middlesboro, Sun, is there breakfast or anything going
on?
ray sheffield
112rs
1052a(at)prodigy.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Sears" <sears(at)searnet.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 6:37 AM
Subject: RV-List: Middlesboro fly-in
>
> Gangsters and RV-listers
>
> There is to be a EAA fly-in at Middlesboro,KY (1A6) on Sept. 30 -
> October 1. Rob Herklotz, our AYA Southern Region coordinator, has
> confirmed these dates for us. I understand it's usually a pretty good
> event and centers around the P-38 restoration project that came from
> the Greenland ice cap. I've heard they've had some pretty nice
> warbirds at the event, in the past. I've never been to the event due
> to conflicts or weather; but, I'm planning on being there this time.
>
> Gangsters, I know this is the "New Orleans" weekend for you
> southern region AYA members; but, perhaps some the our more local
> Grumman drivers will find this event easier to get to. I think Rob is
> going to be there because he doesn't live far from Middlesboro and
> couldn't make it to New Orleans.
>
> BTW, the nice thing about the P-38 project is that you can get close
> and personal with it. The restorers encougage people like us to
> enjoy our visits to the project and do allow some touchy-feely of the
> aircraft. That's a bit unusual, to me. What's even more unusual is
> the fact that the restorers stop their work to talk with us. They want
> us to know all about the project and are very proud of what they're
> doing. I must admit it's quite a project and was an inspiration to me
> as I was building my RV-6A. Oh, yeah. One of the guys is a RV nut,
> too.
>
> I hope you guys show up in your Grummans, Yankees, and RV's. I'm
> sure planning to be there on Saturday, weather permitting.
>
> Jim Sears in KY
> RV-6A N198JS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Larygagnon(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
>
> Can anyone on the list tell me where to find fairings for the 6. I saw a
> wing/flap fairing on a 6 at a fly-in last week but couldn't find the pilot to
> ask whether he made them or bought them. It faired in the flap where it
> comes up against the fuse. I've also heard of a wing/fuse fairing that is an
> aerodynamic improvement over Van's . Will the Rocket gear fairings fit on a
> 6 and are they any better then the fiberglass ones I received from Van's?
Well................now that you mentioned Rocket fairings for the RV-6:
http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/fairings.htm
Sam Buchanan (RV-6 with Rocket fairings)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator balancing problems |
Are and others,
Here is a dumb thought. When balancing the rudder or elevators. What
position should the rod ends be at. I guess I'm assuming at the adjustment
that fists the HS or VS specs???
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator balancing problems
Are,
This doesn't sound right. I had to shave a lot off of the weights to
just get them close (more off the right than left because of the elevator
trim motor). Another local RV-8 builder had the same experience as mine.
Time to call Van's.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (cowl)
Vienna, VA
----- Original Message -----
From: Are Barstad <abarstad(at)bconnex.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 6:38 PM
Subject: RV-List: Elevator balancing problems
>
> I'm having trouble balancing the elevators on my RV-8. The right elevator
is
> ok (just barely!) but the left elevator is simply too heavy for the
counter
> balance weights that Van's supplied. I suspect this may be due to the
> heavier .020 skins on the -8's.
>
> Anyone else experienced this? It's not even painted yet...
>
> I also have a slight oil canning after forming the leading edge on both
> elevators and rudder. I discovered it's caused by inadvertently bending
the
> flange of the main spars. I have remedied most of it but there is still
some
> very minor oil canning. Hopefully it will be safe to fly with. These .020
> leading edges were &!@$#!@ to bend!!!
>
> Are
> RV-8
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: All Electric on a Budget Questions |
I don't know why this message was posted again today as I didn't do
it......I swear. As you can see, the message was sent on Sept 26th. I did
send a subsequent message titled...."Electric on a Budget... a proposal"
which no one responded to.
Again, my apologies....but I didn't do anything!!!!
Ross
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 1:26 PM
Subject: RV-List: All Electric on a Budget Questions
>
>
> Bob,
>
> I am going to use the architecture you outlined in your ""All Electric on
a
> Budget" article which also is illustrated as Z-8 in your book.
> A few questions:
>
> 1) Why do you run the SD-8 alternator through the battery bus? I see
the
> logic in running the 12 gauge wire from the shunt of the SD-8 to the
battery
> contactor as this gives you the ability to power items on the main bus
with
> the SD-8 if the battery contactor is closed but why put another set of
> connections (the battery bus) in between the battery contactor and the
> essential bus switch?
>
> 2) Does the e-bus switch have to be somehow more "heavy duty" since it
> will be caring all the current?
>
> 3) I see you use a SPDT relay to bring the SD-8 on line. If we hooked
> the e-bus directly to the battery contactor with 12awg, would we need to
use
> a SPDT relay here?
>
> 4) Why would you need a loadmeter and shunt for the SD-8 since you
would
> only be using it in emergencies?
>
>
> Now for a different set of questions based on assuming I would want to
have
> the SD-8 on line all the time, not just in emergencies. The reasons for
> this would be two-fold....since I am caring the weight and the alternator
is
> generating 8-10 volts anyway, why not use it? And secondly, maybe I can
> make due with a total of 48-50 amps by using both the SD-8 and a 40 amp
main
> alternator.
>
> 1) Since the SD-8 would be on line all the time, would I want to keep the
> loadmeter and shunt for the SD-8 to be able to monitor its health?
>
> 2) I would run three pathways to the e-bus.
> a) One a direct link from the SD-8 shunt using 12 awg and a 16
> awg fusible link. (Normal operation: Bringing the SD-8 on line powers the
> e-bus)
> b) One from the main bus as is illustrated in Figure Z-8 for
> normal operations except I would replace the diode with a switch. (SD-8
> fails but main alternator is still good and powers both the main and
e-bus.
> Downside...I may have to shed some goodies off the main bus)
> b) One off of the battery bus through a fuse or directly from
> the battery contactor. (Both alternators fail and I run the e-bus off the
> battery)
>
>
> Ross Mickey
> 6-A
> Eugene, Oregon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Copperstate race |
Hey Thomas,
I was going to enter just for fun, but the entry form states that insurance is
required. I have insurance on the plane, but Avemco has a clause stating that
there is no coverage if involved in "racing". Catch 22.
So I won't be involved this year. Although if Paul is going to run, I may fly
his wing on the way out.
Laird RV-6
--- Thomas McIntyre
wrote:
>
> Hi all
> How about a roll call on all those who are going to
> race in the
> Copperstate Dash next week. It would be nice to have
> a strong
> RV turnout this year.
> Tom
> RV3 978TM
>
Tom:
I am unable this year. I will be in Pennsylvania that
weekend.
It was reported that Paul Rosales and Laird Owens from
SoCAL Wing Van's Air Force would be in the race. I
also know that Scott McDanials wants to run the RV-9A
but still needs to get Van's approval.
Have fun without me. See you next year.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
698+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6-A Tip-up Instument Panel Supports |
Jim,
This brings another point. The F-643 channel attaches to the top/center of
the subpanel and runs forward. This gives a rivet line for the top forward
skin along the top/center. This piece is shorter than the F-646 pieces that
you are referring to that run between the subpanel and the firewall. I have
never found a drawing that shows if the F-643 gets attached to the firewall
or just floats. Tech support at Vans could not find a picture either and
told me it wouldn't hurt to tie it into the firewall. If one does this, the
problem you mention, that of flexing, would be taken care of.
Ross Mickey
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Sears" <sears(at)searnet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: 6-A Tip-up Instument Panel Supports
> >I am laying out my 6-A panel and am finding the F-645's are in a
> >terrible place.
>
> I had the same problem. However, I remember there being another
> set of "ribs" in front of the subpanel that braced against them. That
> gives the panel some extra strength. It would seem to me that
> something is needed to brace against the weight of the panel so that
> it won't flex. Just riveting it to the subpane, which can also flex, is
> not good. I put mine on the panel per plan. I was able to work
> around them by shifting things as needed. See attached photo.
>
> Jim Sears in KY
> RV-6A N198JS
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gardner, Douglas (GA01)" <douglas.gardner(at)honeywell.com> |
"Gardner, Douglas (GA01)"
Just to add an interesting point on those naca vents, award winner
Rick Janskowski (sp) used No. 6 screws and nutplates to attach. he said
its a great access port to use later, especially on the -8 FWD skin
to get to those brake assembles.
Doug Gardner -8A On gear/wiring Final ass.
Palm Harbor Fla.
-----Original Message-----
From: menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com
[mailto:menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 11:02 AM
Subject: RV-List: NACA Air Vent
Vince, the right wing NACA vent is included in the fuse kit (have no idea
why). I am also getting ready to close my wings and wanted to install the
vent before closing so I borrowed a vent from a friend who had an extra
one, and will give him the one that comes with my fuse kit in exchange.
I'm sure you could install it after the wing is closed but it would be a
bit easier to do it before closing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Busick" <panamared(at)brier.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Save 863.33 on inverted oil |
Great message, thanks for the info. By the way, where are you putting all
of the stuff on the firewall. I will not be installing inverted oil until
after all test flying is done, basically an economic issue. But, I have
maked out space on the firewall for all of the parts. This is good, because
it was very tempting to put other things there, such as heater valve, etc.
Bob Busick
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rvmils(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 12:06 PM
Subject: RV-List: Save 863.33 on inverted oil
>
> The Christen inverted oil system from Aviat for my RV4 would have cost
> 1966.56. I did pretty much the same set up from Spruce for 1103.22.
> Here's the prices.
>
> Aviat Spruce
> 801-4 Basic Kit 666.00 520.00
> 811-A Sump Kit 337.13 255.00
> 807-4 Deluxe Hose Kit 963.43 327.83
>
> I bought the hose kit in pieces and here's a list of what you need.
> 3X AN 816-10D 10.17
> 1X AN 823-10D 8.00
> 2X AN 842-12D 49.22
> 8X Aeroquip fittings #491-10D 120.24
> 6X aero clamps 5.95
> 15' Aeroquip Hose 303-10 86.25
> 10' MIL-H-6000 Hose 3/4 I.D.X11/80D 48.00
> Total 327.83 Vs 963.43
>
> I use the Aeroquip 303 hose instead of the Stratoflex, I figure if it's
good
> enough for the military and my Blackhawk with it's good enough for the 4.
> I hope this helps, I had enough left over money to but the filter kit.
> Blue Skies,
> Carey Mills
> Installing the system
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Cutaway Drawing .jpg |
Mike
I have a .jpg of the RV6 tip up, 1024X768, I scanned it from the preview
plans. It's about 150K, I'll send it to you directly if you want (I have no
website) just let me know.
Jeff Point
-6 wings
Milwaukee, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com> |
"'Ross Mickey'"@matronics.com
I'm getting repeat messages dated from over a week ago...thought my computer
was in the twilight zone!
Ed Cole
Maxim Integrated Products
Bldg. 120 Ext. 6605
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ross Mickey [SMTP:rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 9:10 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: All Electric on a Budget Questions
>
>
> I don't know why this message was posted again today as I didn't do
> it......I swear. As you can see, the message was sent on Sept 26th. I
> did
> send a subsequent message titled...."Electric on a Budget... a proposal"
> which no one responded to.
>
> Again, my apologies....but I didn't do anything!!!!
>
> Ross
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
> To: "RV-List" ; "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 1:26 PM
> Subject: RV-List: All Electric on a Budget Questions
>
>
> >
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > I am going to use the architecture you outlined in your ""All Electric
> on
> a
> > Budget" article which also is illustrated as Z-8 in your book.
> > A few questions:
> >
> > 1) Why do you run the SD-8 alternator through the battery bus? I see
> the
> > logic in running the 12 gauge wire from the shunt of the SD-8 to the
> battery
> > contactor as this gives you the ability to power items on the main bus
> with
> > the SD-8 if the battery contactor is closed but why put another set of
> > connections (the battery bus) in between the battery contactor and the
> > essential bus switch?
> >
> > 2) Does the e-bus switch have to be somehow more "heavy duty" since
> it
> > will be caring all the current?
> >
> > 3) I see you use a SPDT relay to bring the SD-8 on line. If we
> hooked
> > the e-bus directly to the battery contactor with 12awg, would we need to
> use
> > a SPDT relay here?
> >
> > 4) Why would you need a loadmeter and shunt for the SD-8 since you
> would
> > only be using it in emergencies?
> >
> >
> > Now for a different set of questions based on assuming I would want to
> have
> > the SD-8 on line all the time, not just in emergencies. The reasons for
> > this would be two-fold....since I am caring the weight and the
> alternator
> is
> > generating 8-10 volts anyway, why not use it? And secondly, maybe I can
> > make due with a total of 48-50 amps by using both the SD-8 and a 40 amp
> main
> > alternator.
> >
> > 1) Since the SD-8 would be on line all the time, would I want to keep
> the
> > loadmeter and shunt for the SD-8 to be able to monitor its health?
> >
> > 2) I would run three pathways to the e-bus.
> > a) One a direct link from the SD-8 shunt using 12 awg and a
> 16
> > awg fusible link. (Normal operation: Bringing the SD-8 on line powers
> the
> > e-bus)
> > b) One from the main bus as is illustrated in Figure Z-8 for
> > normal operations except I would replace the diode with a switch. (SD-8
> > fails but main alternator is still good and powers both the main and
> e-bus.
> > Downside...I may have to shed some goodies off the main bus)
> > b) One off of the battery bus through a fuse or directly
> from
> > the battery contactor. (Both alternators fail and I run the e-bus off
> the
> > battery)
> >
> >
> > Ross Mickey
> > 6-A
> > Eugene, Oregon
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fwd: FW: Bravery? |
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 09:43:52 -0400
Subject: FW: Bravery?
From: "Michael A. Jenike, MD" <jenike(at)mediaone.net>
>>>>> Long ago, there lived a sailor named Captain Bravo. He was a manly
>> man's
>>>>> man, who showed no fear when facing his enemies. One day, while
> sailing
>>>>> the Seven Seas, his lookout spotted a pirate ship, and the crew
> became
>>>>> frantic.
>>>>>
>>>>> Captain Bravo bellowed, "Bring me my red shirt!" The first mate
>> quickly
>>>>> retrieved the
>>>>> captain's red shirt, and while wearing the brightly colored frock,
> the
>>>>> Captain led his crew into battle and defeated the pirates.
>>>>>
>>>>> That evening, all the men sat around on the deck recounting the day's
>>>>> triumph. One of them asked the Captain, "Sir, why did you call for
> your
>>>>> red shirt before battle?"
>>>>>
>>>>> The captain replied, "If I am wounded in the attack, the shirt will
> not
>>>>> show my blood. Thus, you men will continue to fight, unafraid." All
> of
>>>>> the men sat in and marveled at the
>>>>> courage of such a manly man's man.
>>>>>
>>>>> As dawn came the next morning, the lookout spotted not one, not two,
>> but
>>>>> TEN pirate ships approaching. The crew stared in worshipful silence
> at
>>>>> the captain and waited for his usual orders. Captain Bravo gazed
> with
>>>>> steely eyes upon the vast armada arrayed
>>>>> against his ship, and without fear, turned and calmly shouted, "Get
> me
>> my
>>>>> brown
>>>>> pants!"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
| Subject: | All Electric on a Budget Questions |
Bob,
I am going to use the architecture you outlined in your ""All Electric on a
Budget" article which also is illustrated as Z-8 in your book.
A few questions:
1) Why do you run the SD-8 alternator through the battery bus? I see the
logic in running the 12 gauge wire from the shunt of the SD-8 to the battery
contactor as this gives you the ability to power items on the main bus with
the SD-8 if the battery contactor is closed but why put another set of
connections (the battery bus) in between the battery contactor and the
essential bus switch?
2) Does the e-bus switch have to be somehow more "heavy duty" since it
will be caring all the current?
3) I see you use a SPDT relay to bring the SD-8 on line. If we hooked
the e-bus directly to the battery contactor with 12awg, would we need to use
a SPDT relay here?
4) Why would you need a loadmeter and shunt for the SD-8 since you would
only be using it in emergencies?
Now for a different set of questions based on assuming I would want to have
the SD-8 on line all the time, not just in emergencies. The reasons for
this would be two-fold....since I am caring the weight and the alternator is
generating 8-10 volts anyway, why not use it? And secondly, maybe I can
make due with a total of 48-50 amps by using both the SD-8 and a 40 amp main
alternator.
1) Since the SD-8 would be on line all the time, would I want to keep the
loadmeter and shunt for the SD-8 to be able to monitor its health?
2) I would run three pathways to the e-bus.
a) One a direct link from the SD-8 shunt using 12 awg and a 16
awg fusible link. (Normal operation: Bringing the SD-8 on line powers the
e-bus)
b) One from the main bus as is illustrated in Figure Z-8 for
normal operations except I would replace the diode with a switch. (SD-8
fails but main alternator is still good and powers both the main and e-bus.
Downside...I may have to shed some goodies off the main bus)
b) One off of the battery bus through a fuse or directly from
the battery contactor. (Both alternators fail and I run the e-bus off the
battery)
Ross Mickey
6-A
Eugene, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Back Riveting |
Greg,
Just take care to insure that there is no gap between the parts and all will
be well. Maybe it's just me, but I first had trouble using the back riveting
set I borrowed from another builder. I tended to tip the tail towards the web
of the rib. This I felt was due to the amount of angle on the set. (This
particular set had a 4 degree bend, others have a 9 degree bend) The angle
allows the rivet gun to function clear of the rib.
I found that by increasing the angle to 11 degrees [Heating red hot in a vice.
Apply hammer! :-)] my results were much better. Another local builder suggested
removing the circular "ring" that Avery's tool has, would prevent "smilies". I
tried 2 different tools, one with the ring, one without. I much preferred not
having the ring. Just my preference.
> >Is there a quality problem with back riveting as many rivets as are
> >accessible? Does back riveting provide an equal (or better)amount of
> >clamping force as face riveting?
> >
> >Greg Tanner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Back Riveting |
Greg,
Just take care to insure that there is no gap between the parts and all will
be well. Maybe it's just me, but I first had trouble using the back riveting
set I borrowed from another builder. I tended to tip the tail towards the web
of the rib. This I felt was due to the amount of angle on the set. (This
particular set had a 4 degree bend, others have a 9 degree bend) The angle
allows the rivet gun to function clear of the rib.
I found that by increasing the angle to 11 degrees [Heating red hot in a vice.
Apply hammer! :-)] my results were much better. Another local builder suggested
removing the circular "ring" that Avery's tool has, would prevent "smilies". I
tried 2 different tools, one with the ring, one without. I much preferred not
having the ring. Just my preference.
> >Is there a quality problem with back riveting as many rivets as are
> >accessible? Does back riveting provide an equal (or better)amount of
> >clamping force as face riveting?
> >
> >Greg Tanner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Busick" <panamared(at)brier.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Unbelievable Info was "N" Numbers |
> Hey... I was reading in the latest RVator that the -8A is lighter than a
> comparably equipped -8... Go figure...
In the past, I have read numerous messages with some unbelievable info
about RVs. Now they may be true, but then how do we fit these facts with
the current theory of aerodynamics. Such as:
The RV 8 is faster than an RV 4 with the same engine? If the RV 8 has a
larger flat plate drag and more wetted surface area, then how can it go
faster with the same horsepower?
The RV-9 is faster than the RV-6 with the same horsepower? Same argument as
above.
A tailwheel aircraft is heavier than a nosewheel aircraft? This may be a
physics problem, not necessarily an aerodynamic problem.
If the first two are true, then I would conclude that the RV-6 and RV-4 are
not that aerodynamic efficient, and the designs could be improved. If the
third is true, then we have some pretty heavy tailwheel hardware!
Just an observation
Bob Busick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Elevator balancing problems |
10/04/2000 01:48:57 PM
I disagree with brian. You should ballance each eleavator half seperately
so that when you bolt them together at the horn the whole eleavator is
mass ballanced (as a complete unit).
"Brian Denk" (at)matronics.com on 10/03/2000 07:42:15 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com; Please respond to "Brian Denk"
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RE: RV-List: Elevator balancing problems
Guys,
Remember, the elevators will be bolted TOGETHER at the horns. So, you won't
know the full balance picture until this is done. Bolt the weights on per
plans, and it will work fine. Honest. Don't sweat some oil canning back
there either. Ain't no such thing as a perfectly skinned RV that will
never
oilcan. It may not in a cold hangar, but get it outside in the heat and
whoa! You get the picture.
Press on. Build the plane.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
135 hrs.
>
>
>Are,
>I'm close to balancing mine, I too am interested in others thoughts. Did
>you mount the weights as far forward as possible? Also regarding the oil
>canning, could you explain further about bending the spar flanges.
>Thanks,
>Jack
>Des Moines, IA
>RV8 Elevators
>
>I'm having trouble balancing the elevators on my RV-8. The right elevator
>is
>ok (just barely!) but the left elevator is simply too heavy for the
counter
>balance weights that Van's supplied. I suspect this may be due to the
>heavier .020 skins on the -8's.
>
>Anyone else experienced this? It's not even painted yet...
>
>I also have a slight oil canning after forming the leading edge on both
>elevators and rudder. I discovered it's caused by inadvertently bending
the
>flange of the main spars. I have remedied most of it but there is still
>some
>very minor oil canning. Hopefully it will be safe to fly with. These .020
>leading edges were &!@$#!@ to bend!!!
>
>Are
>RV-8
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | 28 vs. 14 volt airplane . . . |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>I have an 0-320D2G engine with 28V Alternator & Starter. Many of the
>electrical items I already have purchased use 12V (nose lift, mac servo's).
>I have the option of trading for a 12V Alternator & Starter at no additional
>cost.
Please consider taking advantage of this option . . .
I understand that 2X the voltage = 1/2 the current, meaning the wire
>size going from the battery to the engine is much small for the 28V system
>(less weight).
The 28v option made sense when we were building B-29's and B-52's with
as much as several hundred miles of wire in them . . . the weight savings
was significant. Further, the builders of these machines had pretty deep
pockets to reach into (yours and mine) to finance the miliatary aviation
specialty hardware items unique to their task.
Later on, folks who built DC-6's and 707's knew that the return on
investment for a revenue generating machine was a function of how
many pounds of pax/bags could carried. The airplanes were still pretty
complex and again, the cash to pay for them would continue to come
from the same pockets . . .
Now, your airplane isn't going to make you a dime. In fact, it's
going to COST you a lot of dollars. Further, money isn't going
to come from any pockets but your own to finance the task. While
one might successfully argue a small weight savings it will be quite
small. In a simple single it's not over a couple of pounds.
However, locking yourself down to aviation specific, 28V hardware
shuts you out of all the opportunities to exploit automotive and
consumer products that are widely available, high volume, and
competitively priced.
One exception to consider in this reasoning is unique to canard-pushers.
Cabin heat. If you're going to insist on flying in cold weather and/or
high altitudes, electric toe warmers might help you survive the
experience with a minimum of discomfort. I've had several builders
go for 28V, 60A systems. While the weight of the altenrator
and battery needed are about the same as for 14V, 60A . . . the energy
you can get out of the 28V alternator is twice that of the 14V . . .
all of which you will need and wish for more if you're considering
electric cabin heat.
> . . . . Also, If you mix your loads, what is the best solution? A
>converter or two batteries or something else? Or does someone make a 28V
>battery with the cell poles exposed with 12V tapping capability? Any
>suggestions greatly appreciated.
Mixed voltages in a small airplane are almost never practical.
The size, weight, and cost of voltage conversion equipment clobbers
an otherwise elegant design. Further, you're often forced
to run multiple accessories from the voltage converter meaning
that it becomes a single point of failure for all the goodies
it powers.
Tapping down on half of a 28v battery to get 14v is about the
best way I know of to kill off an otherwise perfectly good
battery.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
\"\(RV9-List\)\""
| Subject: | how many RV-9A are presently under construction |
>> Since starting to watch this list a little more closely I have compiled
a list of approximately 12 RV-9A builders that have frequented the list. <<
Normally, it would not be necessary to maintain a list of RV-9A builders.
There is an RV-9A Builders list. It gets very few posts. As others have
stated the kit is very good and prepunched perfectly. I find that most
issues also apply to other RVs and so are covered by posts to the normal
RV-List. There have only been a few issues pertaining specifically to the
RV-9A. Since I have kit #30 I was quite concerned that I was a pioneer
where the published help would provide little benefit. Not to worry!!
Ernest Kells
RV-9A - Building Wings EAA: #430137
Plan: O-235/Wood Prop RAA:
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario Email:
ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Elevator balancing problems
Thread-Index: AcAuQlLX0IlOY0/7TfqzJ4DB4i+6bQAABWDQ
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator balancing problems |
Let me jump in here, and describe what worked for me.
I balanced my elevators individually. Really tried to tweak them to be
perfect. When I attached them to the control system, I found that they
were nose-heavy with the pushrod attached, so I ended up drilling holes
in the counterweights. Moral of the story? Stick the weights in and
forget about it until the tailfeathers are mounted and connected, then
worry about balance.
So, don't sweat balancing until you really need to.
Again, here's my procedure:
1. Balance elevators to be equally nose-heavy. Forget about them until
the fuse is built.
2. Put 'em on, hook everything up.
3. Remove equal amounts from both weights to get things to balance by
drilling holes in the counterweights.
4. Fill holes with bondo.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 53 hours
runway light stole a chunk of the prop, now I'm down for a prop OH :-(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
I don't know about the rest of you...but every time Robert L. Nuckolls sits
down at the keyboard...I seem to get a bit smarter. Thanks Bob....you're
amazing.
Bill
-4 wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 4:45 PM
Subject: RV-List: 28 vs. 14 volt airplane . . .
>
> >I have an 0-320D2G engine with 28V Alternator & Starter. Many of the
> >electrical items I already have purchased use 12V (nose lift, mac
servo's).
> >I have the option of trading for a 12V Alternator & Starter at no
additional
> >cost.
>
> Please consider taking advantage of this option . . .
>
> I understand that 2X the voltage = 1/2 the current, meaning the wire
> >size going from the battery to the engine is much small for the 28V
system
> >(less weight).
>
> The 28v option made sense when we were building B-29's and B-52's with
> as much as several hundred miles of wire in them . . . the weight
savings
> was significant. Further, the builders of these machines had pretty
deep
> pockets to reach into (yours and mine) to finance the miliatary
aviation
> specialty hardware items unique to their task.
>
> Later on, folks who built DC-6's and 707's knew that the return on
> investment for a revenue generating machine was a function of how
> many pounds of pax/bags could carried. The airplanes were still pretty
> complex and again, the cash to pay for them would continue to come
> from the same pockets . . .
>
> Now, your airplane isn't going to make you a dime. In fact, it's
> going to COST you a lot of dollars. Further, money isn't going
> to come from any pockets but your own to finance the task. While
> one might successfully argue a small weight savings it will be quite
> small. In a simple single it's not over a couple of pounds.
>
> However, locking yourself down to aviation specific, 28V hardware
> shuts you out of all the opportunities to exploit automotive and
> consumer products that are widely available, high volume, and
> competitively priced.
>
> One exception to consider in this reasoning is unique to
canard-pushers.
> Cabin heat. If you're going to insist on flying in cold weather and/or
> high altitudes, electric toe warmers might help you survive the
> experience with a minimum of discomfort. I've had several builders
> go for 28V, 60A systems. While the weight of the altenrator
> and battery needed are about the same as for 14V, 60A . . . the energy
> you can get out of the 28V alternator is twice that of the 14V . . .
> all of which you will need and wish for more if you're considering
> electric cabin heat.
>
> > . . . . Also, If you mix your loads, what is the best solution? A
> >converter or two batteries or something else? Or does someone make a 28V
> >battery with the cell poles exposed with 12V tapping capability? Any
> >suggestions greatly appreciated.
>
> Mixed voltages in a small airplane are almost never practical.
> The size, weight, and cost of voltage conversion equipment clobbers
> an otherwise elegant design. Further, you're often forced
> to run multiple accessories from the voltage converter meaning
> that it becomes a single point of failure for all the goodies
> it powers.
>
> Tapping down on half of a 28v battery to get 14v is about the
> best way I know of to kill off an otherwise perfectly good
> battery.
>
>
> Bob . . .
> --------------------------------------------
> ( Knowing about a thing is different than )
> ( understanding it. One can know a lot )
> ( and still understand nothing. )
> ( C.F. Kettering )
> --------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> |
| Subject: | Unbelievable Info was "N" Numbers |
I just happen to have the RVator here to quote from... On page 9, bottom
left paragraph, their talking about what is involved in making the -9A into
a taildragger...
"For a tailwheel airplane to balance properly and handle acceptable on the
ground, the wheels must be close to the wing's leading edge To put the
wheels this far aft using an RV6 style mount and tapered rod gear
necessitate more sweep than the rod could handle. So then what? Do you build
enough extra structure into the forward fuselage to accept the loads imposed
by the gear? We did this on the RV8, which has the same challenge for
different reasons, and accepted the penalty in weight (if every thing else
is equal, the RV8A should be slightly lighter than the RV8) complexity (the
gear towers are the most crifficult metal project on any RV) and cost."
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Busick
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Unbelievable Info was "N" Numbers
> Hey... I was reading in the latest RVator that the -8A is lighter than a
> comparably equipped -8... Go figure...
In the past, I have read numerous messages with some unbelievable info
about RVs. Now they may be true, but then how do we fit these facts with
the current theory of aerodynamics. Such as:
The RV 8 is faster than an RV 4 with the same engine? If the RV 8 has a
larger flat plate drag and more wetted surface area, then how can it go
faster with the same horsepower?
The RV-9 is faster than the RV-6 with the same horsepower? Same argument as
above.
A tailwheel aircraft is heavier than a nosewheel aircraft? This may be a
physics problem, not necessarily an aerodynamic problem.
If the first two are true, then I would conclude that the RV-6 and RV-4 are
not that aerodynamic efficient, and the designs could be improved. If the
third is true, then we have some pretty heavy tailwheel hardware!
Just an observation
Bob Busick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harvey Sigmon" <flyhars(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Facet Fuel Pump Reorientation |
AHN: From what you described the facet pump I think is mounted like it is in
a piper. I think the pump has two flanges for mounting one on each side of
the cylindrical body. There should be two fittings as you described and an
electrical fitting. Usually the pump is mounted vertical and the fittings
would be to your left and on the bottom the screen is located inside the
lower part of the pump and is removed by turning the nut on the bottom and
is usually safetied. It sounds to me like that the pump would not stay
primed the way it was mounted horizontal. I think that would make the
engine difficult to start sometimes it is almost like not having a pump at
all. So just mount the pump to the firewall vertically, if you bolt it
directly to the firewall use a doubler on the inside to give additional
support. Try not to have the inlet and outlet making a sharp bend and some
hose slack is desired to prevent the hose from rupturing when the engine
moves. On my install I mounted the pump inside below the selector on the
right side at about 45 Degrees to help keep it primed, as per facet, but my
pump is a small square type. I like yours better. Good luck, as always I am
here if you need help.
Harv
----- Original Message -----
From: <wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 10:43 PM
Subject: RV-List: Facet Fuel Pump Reorientation
>
> Listers,
> My Facet fuel pump stoped clanging last weekend. I have 150hrs on the
> engine and am not sure if the pump was new at installation time since I
> bought the plane. I went to turn on the Master switch followed by the
pump
> switch and it sounded similar to how my car would sound sometimes when
turn
> the key - silence. To make the story short, I ordered a new one and at
the
> same time searched the archive and found that my horizontal install wasn't
> ideal. In fact, eye-balling the pump gave me the impression that the
output
> fitting is actually slightly lowever than the input fitting. I've decided
> to re-orient the Facet pump so that it would sit vertical. Please hear my
> intention. All comments are welcome.
>
> Current system has mechanical and Facet pumps installed in parallel. Both
> get fuel from the output of the gascolator. The output of both are joined
> together by means of a T-fitting, then goes to the carb. Pressure gauge
is
> tapped into the mech pump side and downstream from it.
>
> 1. New Facet is cylindrical in shape (so was old one) and has anti-siphon
> feature.
> 2. Old one is mounted on the firewall, engine side, along one of the
> vertical firewall stiffeners (makes the pump lie horizontal).
> 3. Center of old one was about 7 inches from the bottom of cowl.
> 4. New one will be mounted on a base plate and base plate will be mounted
> on the firewall using the existing holes. base plate will be turned 90deg
> so that pump is vertical.
> 5. Output hose is kept unchanged (about 12 inches long).
> 6. Old input hose is also about 12 inches making a U-turn to connect the
> two fittings (pump input and gascolator output) that were about 8 inches
> apart.
> 7. Pump input will be closer to gascolator output once it sits vertical
so
> the old input hose will make more of a U-turn bend. The two fittings are
> only 4 1/4 apart. I'm afraid the bend is too sharp so a new hose will be
> made - 4 1/4 inches long with 90deg fittings at the ends going from
> gascolator output to pump input - no bends. No give either. (This is my
> worst concern).
> 8. Center of new pump will be about 2 inches lower when installed
verticaly.
> 9. Planning to use 3/32 inch alum for base plate, which will be about
4inch
> square.
>
> Oh,
> Sometimes (65% of the time) the pump sounded like it never self-primed
under
> the old installation. The clangs never slowed down and build up pressure.
> But it would do so easily after engine start as evident by turning the
pump
> switch on/off while watching the fuel press gauge. The facet pump would
> increase the press by about 1/2psi. Between 4-4 1/2 on the gauge. When
> this happens I just turn the pump off until after engine start.
>
> I disconnected the two hoses from the pump today and no fuel drained out
of
> the pump. Maybe 10 drops at most. The pump goes dry every time I turn
the
> engine off.
> Perhaps the anti-siphoning feature of the new pump and its vertical
> orientation will prevent this under the new installation.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Anh
> N985VU-flying
> Maryland
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)micron.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Unbelievable Info was "N" Numbers |
Actually yes. My 6A prior to paint and with a fixed metal prop was 997#. I
flew it that way for a 2+ years. Now with paint and a couple extra goodies
in the panel it's up to 1018#. However, I think that all things being equal
the 6 is about 35# lighter than a 6A.
Ed Bundy - Eagle, ID
RV6A, 0320-D1a (160hp)
Sensenich 70x78, N427EM, 350+hrs.
ebundy(at)micron.net
> Tailwheel heavier than a nosewheel? Has anyone seen a nose dragger -6 that
came
> in under 1000 pounds? I've seen quite a few -6's under a grand. Those gear
> mounts on the -6A are beefy. I'm still waiting for Gary to put on an MT
prop so
> we can get to the bottom of the -9/-6 efficiency debate.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Elevator balancing problems |
"Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
I have a question for the aerospace engineers in the audience regarding the
static balance of rudders and elevators... By assuming that a good static
balance helps the dynamic characteristics, aren't we mixing two separate
issues without a sound basis? Isn't the purpose for the counterbalance on a
control surface to prevent flutter? As I understand it, the counterbalance
changes the dynamic characteristics of the system by raising the natural
frequency. The easiest was to do this is by adding a mass (with a fairly
long arm) to the control surface. We put it ahead of the surface to keep
our arms from getting tired holding up the weight of the elevators, but it
would have the same dynamic effect behind the hinge line. Right?!
What I'm thinking is that the extreme amount of detail spent statically
balancing the control surface may or may not make any significant
difference.
...trying to understand
Bryan Jones -8 765BJ
Pearland, Texas
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Japundza [mailto:Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 3:58 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Elevator balancing problems
Let me jump in here, and describe what worked for me.
I balanced my elevators individually. Really tried to tweak them to be
perfect. When I attached them to the control system, I found that they
were nose-heavy with the pushrod attached, so I ended up drilling holes
in the counterweights. Moral of the story? Stick the weights in and
forget about it until the tailfeathers are mounted and connected, then
worry about balance.
So, don't sweat balancing until you really need to.
Again, here's my procedure:
1. Balance elevators to be equally nose-heavy. Forget about them until
the fuse is built.
2. Put 'em on, hook everything up.
3. Remove equal amounts from both weights to get things to balance by
drilling holes in the counterweights.
4. Fill holes with bondo.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 53 hours
runway light stole a chunk of the prop, now I'm down for a prop OH :-(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Facet Fuel Pump Reorientation |
Hi Anh:
From your description of your pump it sounds to me like you have a Facet
interrupter type pump rather than the solid state as is normally used on the
RV's. If you have access to a ACS catalog you will see the differences. The
obvious difference is the solid sate is a cube less than three inches on any
side, the interrupter as I remember is about 1 1/2 - 2 inches in diameter
and 5 inches tall.The interrupter type was used extensively on Piper
aircraft and was mounted vertically. Both pumps do the same job the big
difference the solid state is around $28.00 and the interrupter is around
$70.00.
There are several models of both pumps so one has to be sure to have the
right one.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
-----Original Message-----
From: wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net <wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net>
Date: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 8:54 PM
Subject: RV-List: Facet Fuel Pump Reorientation
>
>Listers,
>My Facet fuel pump stoped clanging last weekend. I have 150hrs on the
>engine and am not sure if the pump was new at installation time since I
>bought the plane. I went to turn on the Master switch followed by the
pump
>switch and it sounded similar to how my car would sound sometimes when turn
>the key - silence. To make the story short, I ordered a new one and at the
>same time searched the archive and found that my horizontal install wasn't
>ideal. In fact, eye-balling the pump gave me the impression that the
output
>fitting is actually slightly lowever than the input fitting. I've decided
>to re-orient the Facet pump so that it would sit vertical. Please hear my
>intention. All comments are welcome.
>
>Current system has mechanical and Facet pumps installed in parallel. Both
>get fuel from the output of the gascolator. The output of both are joined
>together by means of a T-fitting, then goes to the carb. Pressure gauge is
>tapped into the mech pump side and downstream from it.
>
>1. New Facet is cylindrical in shape (so was old one) and has anti-siphon
>feature.
>2. Old one is mounted on the firewall, engine side, along one of the
>vertical firewall stiffeners (makes the pump lie horizontal).
>3. Center of old one was about 7 inches from the bottom of cowl.
>4. New one will be mounted on a base plate and base plate will be mounted
>on the firewall using the existing holes. base plate will be turned 90deg
>so that pump is vertical.
>5. Output hose is kept unchanged (about 12 inches long).
>6. Old input hose is also about 12 inches making a U-turn to connect the
>two fittings (pump input and gascolator output) that were about 8 inches
>apart.
>7. Pump input will be closer to gascolator output once it sits vertical so
>the old input hose will make more of a U-turn bend. The two fittings are
>only 4 1/4 apart. I'm afraid the bend is too sharp so a new hose will be
>made - 4 1/4 inches long with 90deg fittings at the ends going from
>gascolator output to pump input - no bends. No give either. (This is my
>worst concern).
>8. Center of new pump will be about 2 inches lower when installed
verticaly.
>9. Planning to use 3/32 inch alum for base plate, which will be about
4inch
>square.
>
>Oh,
>Sometimes (65% of the time) the pump sounded like it never self-primed
under
>the old installation. The clangs never slowed down and build up pressure.
>But it would do so easily after engine start as evident by turning the pump
>switch on/off while watching the fuel press gauge. The facet pump would
>increase the press by about 1/2psi. Between 4-4 1/2 on the gauge. When
>this happens I just turn the pump off until after engine start.
>
>I disconnected the two hoses from the pump today and no fuel drained out of
>the pump. Maybe 10 drops at most. The pump goes dry every time I turn
the
>engine off.
>Perhaps the anti-siphoning feature of the new pump and its vertical
>orientation will prevent this under the new installation.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Anh
>N985VU-flying
>Maryland
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Unbelievable Info was "N" Numbers |
This seems like a problem that is easily solved by weighing. The tail wheel
is lighter than the nose wheel but is the main gear mounting also lighter?
The scale knows...
hal
> A tailwheel aircraft is heavier than a nosewheel aircraft? This may be a
> physics problem, not necessarily an aerodynamic problem.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
Bill: I am curently building this very bulkhead. Here
is how you put the piece on you are talking about. On
the anodized web, (F804 a or b? I cant remember.)
locate your rudder cable hole and drill it out for the
5/8" hole. The angle piece you are having problems
with go ahead and rivet it on without the 5/8" hole in
it. after the angle piece is riveted on, back drill to
open up the angle this will keep that piece from
buckling on you. I hope this helps.
Glenn Williams
archive this one please
--- Bill Christie wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
> I am putting together the F804 bulkhead assembly on
> an RV8A and ran into a
> problem. On the aft side of the F804 there are 2
> pieces made of the
> .063X3/4X3/4 angle. These are used for floor
> supports. The problem is that
> the 3/16" hole is enlarged to 5/8" to install a
> bushing for the rudder
> pedals. When I use a unibit to enlarge the 3/16"
> hole out to 5/8", it cuts
> out to the edge, breaking open that flange. I have
> now made 2 of these with
> the same results. There appears to be 2
> possibilities here: use a 3/4 by 1
> angle or rivet it on and then enlarge the hole,
> ignoring the fact that the
> flange is broken. If someone has a cure / suggestion
> here, I would certainly
> appreciate it.
>
> Thanks Much,
>
> Bill C., RV8A, Phoenix
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pdsmith <pdsmith(at)pacbell.net> |
I highly recommend attending one of Bob's weekend seminars (available at a
modest cost - book through through his web site - www.aeroelectric.com).
A bunch of us just attended one last weekend in Santa Rosa, CA and learned a
lot in a short time, not to mention the two GPS units & a bunch of tools
that he gave away as door prizes. Your electrical IQ is guaranteed to rise!
Phil, 80691
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Unbelievable Info was "N" Numbers(4 drag compared to 8) |
In a message dated 10/4/00 3:44:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
panamared(at)brier.net writes:
> The RV 8 is faster than an RV 4 with the same engine? If the RV 8 has a
> larger flat plate drag and more wetted surface area, then how can it go
> faster with the same horsepower?
The RV8 does not have larger equivalent flat plate area if it is faster on
the same engine. By definition drag is dynamic pressure(1/2 X density X
velocity X velocity) times the equivalent flat plate area. The sexy looking
cheek cowls are neat to look at but are very, draggy. I think Van continues
to outdo himself. He was shocked at how fast a 4 was compared to a 3, how
fast a 6 was compared to 4, and how fast both the 8 and 9A have proven out.
There are lots of variables here folks. All the little improvements add up.
My 6A is 7 mph faster than a friends 6, both are powered by 0-320's with 80
inch metal sensenich props. It is not that I build better than he did, but I
have PR wheelpants, holy cowl with plenum, Tracy Saylor gear leg fairings
,and sheared wing tips. His airplane was built 5-6 years ago and he has had
800 hours of fun flying and still loves his airplane even if it is 7 mph
slower.
Saying something has more wetted area and a higher flat plate area is kinda
of redundant. I think we are confusing flat plate area with cross-sectional
area.
If folks are really interested in this type thing, there are numerous good
books out there on aerodynamics. The important thing is to get your airplane
built and flying and to learn how to fly it safely. Van (even though he has
no formal aero training, he is a mechanical engineer by degree I think) has
come out with a stable of great airplanes and each one gets better both in
ease of construction and how close he comes to meeting his design objectives.
Can't wait to see the 4-place even though I personally would rather he do a
powered sailplane kit.
Bernie Kerr, 6A 50 hours and down for paint
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Elevator balancing problems |
><bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
>
>I have a question for the aerospace engineers in the audience regarding the
>static balance of rudders and elevators... By assuming that a good static
>balance helps the dynamic characteristics, aren't we mixing two separate
>issues without a sound basis? Isn't the purpose for the counterbalance on a
>control surface to prevent flutter? As I understand it, the counterbalance
>changes the dynamic characteristics of the system by raising the natural
>frequency. The easiest was to do this is by adding a mass (with a fairly
>long arm) to the control surface. We put it ahead of the surface to keep
>our arms from getting tired holding up the weight of the elevators, but it
>would have the same dynamic effect behind the hinge line. Right?!
>
>What I'm thinking is that the extreme amount of detail spent statically
>balancing the control surface may or may not make any significant
>difference.
>
>...trying to understand
>
>Bryan Jones -8 765BJ
>Pearland, Texas
>
Bryan,
I am not an aeronautical structural engineer, so this explanation is
simplified.
You are right about the main purpose of balancing being to prevent
flutter (at least inside the approved speed envelope). But the
increase in natural frequency is only part of the picture. The
location of the elevator's CG with respect to the hinge line is also
important.
Imagine an RV elevator without balance weights. Now imagine that you
are flying along at high speed, and some kind of disturbance causes
the HS tips to deflect downwards a tiny bit. The hinge line of the
elevator is moved downward when the HS moves downwards. The CG of
the elevator is aft of the hinge line, so its inertia will cause it
to deflect upwards when the hinge line moves downwards. The upwards
movement of the elevator puts a download on the HS, which causes it
to deflect even further down. Eventually the stiffness of the HS
structure will cause it to bounce back towards the neutral position,
but it will overshoot neutral and deflect upwards a bit. Now the
elevator will deflect downwards due to inertia, putting an up load on
the HS, causing it to deflect even further upwards. Eventually the
structural stiffness will cause the HS to move back the other way.
We will have one or more cycles of this motion. If we are slower
than the flutter speed, the various motions will be damped, and
everything is OK. If we are flying faster than the flutter speed,
the amplitude will get higher every cycle until we have structural
failure.
Now, if the elevator was 100% balanced, movement of the hinge line
would not cause the elevator to deflect. This helps reduce the
likelihood of flutter.
Flutter is a very dangerous event. The tail could come off before
you have a chance to slow down. A properly built RV, flown within
Van's recommended envelope, should be free from flutter.
This explanation is very rudimentary. Even the big boys don't know
everything there is to know about flutter. Boeing lost half the
vertical tail on a modified 707 a few years ago. They then
(presumably) did a whole bunch of additional flutter analysis, and
then lost half of the vertical tail again when they redid the flutter
tests.
Take care,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (misc fuselage stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.nbci.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pressure |
In a message dated 9/14/00 9:53:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
racaldwell(at)hotmail.com writes:
> They say all is well and floats/valve held at 6 psi. They
> suggest I must have exceeded 6 psi and flooded the carb. Then I remember
a
> few flights ago I did see 9 psi on my uMonitor. Didn't think much of it
at
> the time. Didn't look when the carb flooded, unfortunately.
Hi Rick,
What did you finally resolve? If it was on the list, I missed it.
Bernie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Jon Johanson Fund |
With Jon now safely home in Adelaide this is the last post of the names of
those who helped him make this remarkable flight.
Ralph Bookout -------Visalia, CA
E.L. Leggette --------High Point, NC
R.V. Reynolds --------Norfolk, VA
Lawrence C.Brown--Advance, NC
Marty Emrath ------Brentwood TN
Again thanks to all of you and if I have missed anyone please let me know.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator balancing problems |
I have been reading this thread and have decided to
let you guys in on how we do it in the a/c industry.
you take the control surface off of the a/c (aircraft)
you have it painted to match the a/c paint scheme. Or
polished aluminum.(do not try to balance the control
surface until it is painted or polished) You then
place the control surface on a jig that will allow the
thing to hang in trail, you add or subtract weight
until the control surface hangs in a perfectly neutral
plane. i.e. you pull it down and it should return to
neutral and vice versa for the up position. after the
control surface is balanced, it is balanced
regardless. A word of caution here, the control
surface must be placed on the jig as it would be ready
for flight (with the fiberglass tips installed etc.)
after the control surface is balanced then you will
install it back on the a/c and hook up the controls
yes the weight of the controls will throw the
elevator, aileron or rudder to some other position
other than neutral but when flying the a/c the airflow
over the controls will counteract this and your
control surfaces being balanced will reduce your work
load (as if this is a problem on an rv ha ha ha) well
thats how it's done, hope this helps you and takes
some of the mystery out of balancing
archive this one
Glenn Williams
--- "Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
wrote:
> <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
>
> I have a question for the aerospace engineers in the
> audience regarding the
> static balance of rudders and elevators... By
> assuming that a good static
> balance helps the dynamic characteristics, aren't we
> mixing two separate
> issues without a sound basis? Isn't the purpose for
> the counterbalance on a
> control surface to prevent flutter? As I understand
> it, the counterbalance
> changes the dynamic characteristics of the system by
> raising the natural
> frequency. The easiest was to do this is by adding
> a mass (with a fairly
> long arm) to the control surface. We put it ahead
> of the surface to keep
> our arms from getting tired holding up the weight of
> the elevators, but it
> would have the same dynamic effect behind the hinge
> line. Right?!
>
> What I'm thinking is that the extreme amount of
> detail spent statically
> balancing the control surface may or may not make
> any significant
> difference.
>
> ...trying to understand
>
> Bryan Jones -8 765BJ
> Pearland, Texas
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Japundza [mailto:Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 3:58 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Elevator balancing problems
>
>
>
>
> Let me jump in here, and describe what worked for
> me.
>
> I balanced my elevators individually. Really tried
> to tweak them to be
> perfect. When I attached them to the control
> system, I found that they
> were nose-heavy with the pushrod attached, so I
> ended up drilling holes
> in the counterweights. Moral of the story? Stick
> the weights in and
> forget about it until the tailfeathers are mounted
> and connected, then
> worry about balance.
>
> So, don't sweat balancing until you really need to.
>
> Again, here's my procedure:
>
> 1. Balance elevators to be equally nose-heavy.
> Forget about them until
> the fuse is built.
> 2. Put 'em on, hook everything up.
> 3. Remove equal amounts from both weights to get
> things to balance by
> drilling holes in the counterweights.
> 4. Fill holes with bondo.
>
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 53 hours
> runway light stole a chunk of the prop, now I'm down
> for a prop OH :-(
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Hobenshield <edhob(at)kermode.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV kit wanted |
>
>I'm looking for ANY type of RV project that's not completed beyond the
>"quick build" state. Any kit that has been put together aesthetically
>nicely and primed up to this point will be considered.
>
>email me offline with info.
>
>frank
>
I may be in the market to sell my RV - 6, 115 hrs TT. < 500 hrs eng.
since new 320 160 HP. No, its not a Kit, but it is in Can. $ and you
may be interested.
More imfo if requested.
Yours sincerly
Ed Hobenshield
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
Electric Bob,
I have a question... I've got a used 24 volt A.H., is it possible to
have it converted to 12/14 volts when I send it in for overhaul? Same
question w/ the turn/bank indicator. Any thoughts or comments (besides
"You cheap S.O.-.", I've already heard that one enough) would be very much
appreciated. Thanks,
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net |
| Subject: | Facet Fuel Pump Reorientation |
Thanks to all who responded to my call. Harv, your comments are
descriptive and informative as usual.
I took my pump off of the a/c today and tested it using my car battery. It
operated intermittenly. It'd run for 5,10 seconds then stop. Then I'd bang
it with the "ball" of my hand and it'd run again - very consistently
intermitten. A fellow IA nearby concurred with me. It felt like the pump
was sticking. He also mentionedthat Pipers use the same set up as I do, as
someone on this list mentioned, and he has never seen such pump failed in
his entire life time being around airplanes. He seemed to think that I had
a bad ground which caused the pump to "age" faster. I might have,
especially when my pump is separated from the firewall by a piece of
leather. I am not sure why the leather but that caused the grounding of the
pump to be purely through the two bolts. He is confident the pump is fine
being horizontal as many Pipers have them that way. By the way, a bunch of
fuel came out of the pump today when I competely pulled it off of the
aircraft. My facet does have a check valve.
Harv, I don't have any problem starting the engine without the Facet being
on. I usually turn it on momentarily to make sure it clangs but I keep it
off until the engine is started. Once the engine is running, an increase in
pressure (only half a lb or so) when I turn the pump on tells me that it is
primed and working properly. I'd then leave it on for the take off until I
reach safe altitude.
Thanks again everyone,
Anh
N985VU-flying
Maryland
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Copper State Dash |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
Tom:
I am unable this year. I will be in Pennsylvania that
weekend.
It was reported that Paul Rosales and Laird Owens from
SoCAL Wing Van's Air Force would be in the race. I
also know that Scott McDanials wants to run the RV-9A
but still needs to get Van's approval.
Have fun without me. See you next year.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
698+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
- - - - - - - - - - -
I wont be flying the RV-9A in the race.
Van is concerned that flying it as a normal crosscountry flight to
document it as simply being as capable (speed wise) as an RV-6A, would be
taken out of context by the Sport Aviation public.
Example...If all the other RV's entered in the race run flat out turning
who knows what RPM and I only flew a normal best performance at 75% power
flight, then all of the comparison #'s would be skewed. He knows if the
#'s that he is claiming match the #'s obtained in the race then we
accomplished our goal, but he has a concern that not everyone would look
would evaluate the #'s that way.
And he is usually right! Even here on the list (where there should be a
higher percentage of people that know the "RV" facts) I see performance
#'s and statistics posted that makes me sometimes wonder "where did that
come from".
A bunch of us thought it was a good idea, but it was not an issue worth
pressing.
I will see you at Copper State none the less.
Stop in and say Hi.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: RV-List Pressure Recovery Wheel Pants |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
From: "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)micron.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Pressure Recovery Wheel Pants, RV6A, Nose Wheel
>I recently installed the main gear PR fairings and I picked up a solid
>5-7mph. Are you using the same fairing for the nose wheel? In the
catalog
>it says that these fairings are not for nose wheels. It then shows a
>listing for a nose wheel fairing without PR in the part #. I assumed
that
>this was the standard nose wheel that I already have.
>Does anyone know if there is in fact a PR nose wheel for a 6A?
>Ed Bundy - Eagle, ID
-
Yes there is.
It is a smaller version of the one for the main wheels.
There is one on the Vans aircraft RV-8A and the new RV-9A.
Fits fine in the standard Vans aircraft nose wheel fork / tire assembly
when installed correctly.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing inspection cover |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing inspection cover
Scott, that's why I asked the original question. I'm going to make the
wing inspection covers out of .030 lexan and install two rear fuselage
covers (one on each side instead of just one) as well. I'll let you know
how it goes
Mike Nellis - RV-6 Wings N699BM (res)
Plainfield, IL
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I strongly encourage you to reconsider your plans.
All of the static load tests that have been done on RV wings were done
with covers screwed in place.
If you asked if there was a "structural issue with changing the cover?"
the standard Vans Aircraft answer would be "Don't know... We have never
tested any that way".
Same goes for the rear fuselage covers. They could be helping with
torsional rigidity.
If you properly build, maintain, and preflight (serious problems in these
areas would likely be evident just by checking the function of the
control system) you are not likely to gain any benefit worth taking a
chance on something that has not been tested.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
| Subject: | Proseal - YUCK!! |
| From: | Chris Krieg <rv6a(at)mac.com> |
Boy oh boy, that stuff gets everywhere! I even did the Orndorff method of
wearing 2 layers of gloves vand peeling one off after a while and still
managed to get that stuff on my fingers and everything else somehow.
No, this email is not just to complain about Proseal. I also wanted to
introduce myself.
I have been building an RV-6A since 1989. That was when the RV-6A was still
in developement and you could only order a -6. No RV-8s or RV-9s. No
quickbuilt kits or pre-punched components. My project has started and
stopped several times and moved with me to Arizona from Ohio. I am now
trying to kick it back in to gear and get this thing finished. I'm trying to
seal the tanks (thus the above comments) and have started building fuselage
bulkheads and parts. I still need to build the fuselage jig or find a good
straight one already built locally.
I have been on and off the list several times mostly as a lurker. In fact,
you could probably consider me one of the founding fathers of the RVList.
Many years ago, when in college, I had my own list of email addresses of RV
builders that I met in the rec.aviation newsgroups. Then I met Matt Dralle
in the same way. He had his own list. Matt and I combined our lists and he
formed the official RVList mailing list. Look where it is now. Wowsers! Are
there any other original members of the list left?
Chris Krieg
RV-6A
Chandler, AZ.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: O-360 C/S RATIO? |
Scott,
I also had a problem at first trying to figure out which Governor. I ended
up justing ordering one from Van's. Ended up costing just slightly more
than a rebuilt one from a prop shop.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A N809RS
>From: ABAYMAN(at)AOL.COM
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com, ABAYMAN(at)AOL.COM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: O-360 C/S RATIO?
>Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 16:45:19 EDT
>
>
>Dear listers
>i am looking for a prop govenor for an o-360 a1d. the local prop guy asked
>me
>what was the engine's gear drive ratio. it is either .866-1 or .850-1,
>engine gurus please inlighten me as to what they are talking about. i have
>the engine and c/s prop that van sells. what prop gov do i need?
>thanks in advance
>scott
>tampa
>rv6a can't hang engine untill i get a prop gov.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "<Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com> |
(Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id
for" ;
Thu,
05 Oct 2000 08:03:49.-0400(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Unbelievable Info was "N" Numbers |
05 Oct 2000 08:03:49.-0400(at)matronics.com
Atta Boy Ed, your'e the first person thats been able to tell me what his paint
job weighed, roughly 20 lbs. I expected a lot more. Thanks
Eric
"Ed Bundy" on 10/04/2000 05:59:29 PM
Please respond to "rv-list(at)matronics.com, \"Ed Bundy\""
Subject: Re: RV-List: Unbelievable Info was "N" Numbers
>>>>Actually yes. My 6A prior to paint and with a fixed metal prop was 997#.
I
flew it that way for a 2+ years. Now with paint and a couple extra goodies
in the panel it's up to 1018#. However, I think that all things being equal
the 6 is about 35# lighter than a 6A.
E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Scuttlebutt |
--- Kevin Horton wrote:
> Well, this is interesting to say the least. The
> problem is that we
> don't really know whether the RV-9A really does have
> less drag than
> Gary's RV-6, or the MT prop is more efficient, or
> the engine in the
> RV-9A is maybe putting out a big more power than the
> one in Gary's
> aircraft. There are engine-to-engine variations,
> even between
> "identical" engines. This is going to be
> interesting to watch as
> RV-9As start flying.
>
> Which gear leg fairings and wheel pants do you have
> Gary? Van's
> latest ones are apparently pretty low drag - could
> that be a factor?
> Do you get red line rpm when you push everything
> forward? Have you
> calibrated your tach lately? How does the number
> and placement of
> external antennae compare to the RV-9A?
>
> For the record - I would be rather surprised if the
> blunt edge
> control surfaces have much to do with the speed of
> the RV-9A, but
> we'll only know for sure once Mr. Fast-guy does the
> mod.
>
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (misc fuselage
> stuff)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://members.nbci.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
Kevin:
Wheelpants and gear leg are the latest ones from
Van's. Two piece pressure recovery fairings and
fiberglass. Tach is RMI Digital. I do not like being
second and will / was turning 2,790 RPM. Two comm
antennas underneath just forward of the spar, one
blade type Xponder middle just forward of the spar,
one Marker beacon just forward of the tailwheel, one
GPS on top just aft of the slider, and Piper blade
type Pitot. This is more antenna than on the RV-9A.
Engine is the equivalent of the one from Bart that is
in the RV-9A. My compression is good. TSMOH, 600.
Scott McDanials wants to run the RV-9A in the
Copperstate dash but Van is not very hot on the idea
per Ken.
Empty weight of the RV-9A is 21 pounds less than mine.
Takeoff weight was about the same with two people on
board both.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
698+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Unbelievable Info was "N" Numbers(Drag Issues) |
n a message dated 10/4/00 3:44:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
panamared(at)brier.net writes:
> The RV 8 is faster than an RV 4 with the same engine? If the RV 8 has a
> larger flat plate drag and more wetted surface area, then how can it go
> faster with the same horsepower?
The RV8 does not have larger equivalent flat plate area if it is faster on
the same engine. By definition drag is dynamic pressure(1/2 X density X
velocity X velocity) times the equivalent flat plate area. The sexy looking
cheek cowls are neat to look at but are very, draggy. I think Van continues
to outdo himself. He was shocked at how fast a 4 was compared to a 3, how
fast a 6 was compared to 4, and how fast both the 8 and 9A have proven out.
There are lots of variables here folks. All the little improvements add up.
My 6A is 7 mph faster than a friends 6, both are powered by 0-320's with 80
inch metal sensenich props. It is not that I build better than he did, but I
have PR wheelpants, holy cowl with plenum, Tracy Saylor gear leg fairings
,and sheared wing tips. His airplane was built 5-6 years ago and he has had
800 hours of fun flying and still loves his airplane even if it is 7 mph
slower. "Now there are PR nose wheel pants , so now I am obsolete"!
Saying something has more wetted area and a higher flat plate area is kinda
of redundant. I think we are confusing flat plate area with cross-sectional
area.
If folks are really interested in this type thing, there are numerous good
books out there on aerodynamics. The important thing is to get your airplane
built and flying and to learn how to fly it safely. Van (even though he has
no formal aero training, he is a mechanical engineer by degree I think) has
come out with a stable of great airplanes and each one gets better both in
ease of construction and how close he comes to meeting his design objectives.
Can't wait to see the 4-place even though I personally would rather he do a
powered sailplane kit.
Bernie Kerr, 6A 50 hours and down for paint
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Where do the dang wing skins go? |
With the prepunched skins, the current popular method of mounting the wing
ribs is to first make sure they line up with the holes in the skins. A
no-brainer, except I can't figure out exactly where the skins go. The
empennage spars were prepunched, so there was a beginning point for
attaching the skins. Not so with the wings! I have pored over the drawings
and the only thing I have found is a section view that shows the tank skin
overlapping the main spar by 1 inch, and the inboard (bottom) skin
overlapping it by 1/2 inch. But where does that puppy go spanwise? Call me
an idiot, but if the answer is obvious on the plans, I can't find it.
Thanks in advance for all your help and advice.
Jim Bower
St. Louis, MO
RV-6A N143DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Scuttlebutt |
"
>
> Looks like the only thing the RV-9a is giving up is using an O-360 and aerobatic
capability.
>
Heck, the next thing you know we will have to give up sex and beer. No aerobatics
and no O-360 why live?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
>Electric Bob,
>
> I have a question... I've got a used 24 volt A.H., is it possible to
>have it converted to 12/14 volts when I send it in for overhaul? Same
>question w/ the turn/bank indicator. Any thoughts or comments (besides
>"You cheap S.O.-.", I've already heard that one enough) would be very much
>appreciated. Thanks,
>
> Chuck
Gee . . . I'm surprised/disappointed that anyone would get that
excited over your query . . . intuitively, one has to acknowledge
that IF a particular model of accessory is offered in both 14 and 28
volt versions, then a swapout of the difference-parts should convert
it from one system to the other.
You'd have to approach the folk who overhaul these things and
see what they know about your specific parts. I can recall a few
instances where products I've built were converted for a customer
but by-in-large, the cost of parts + labor would probably exceed
the cost of simply trading one part in for anohter part of the other
voltage and paying the delta-dollars the merchant wants.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
>I don't know about the rest of you...but every time Robert L. Nuckolls sits
>down at the keyboard...I seem to get a bit smarter. Thanks Bob....you're
>amazing.
>
>Bill
>-4 wings
Thank you sir. I'm pleased that you find the work
useful . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Speed Discussion- Various RV models 10/2000 |
10/05/2000 09:33:49 AM
Reposted with different subject line for future archive searching. Search
on subject line on enclosed post...
Rv660wm(at)AOL.COM@matronics.com on 10/04/2000 07:58:10 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com; Please respond to Rv660wm(at)AOL.COM
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Unbelievable Info was "N" Numbers(4 drag compared to
8)
In a message dated 10/4/00 3:44:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
panamared(at)brier.net writes:
> The RV 8 is faster than an RV 4 with the same engine? If the RV 8 has a
> larger flat plate drag and more wetted surface area, then how can it go
> faster with the same horsepower?
The RV8 does not have larger equivalent flat plate area if it is faster on
the same engine. By definition drag is dynamic pressure(1/2 X density X
velocity X velocity) times the equivalent flat plate area. The sexy looking
cheek cowls are neat to look at but are very, draggy. I think Van continues
to outdo himself. He was shocked at how fast a 4 was compared to a 3, how
fast a 6 was compared to 4, and how fast both the 8 and 9A have proven out.
There are lots of variables here folks. All the little improvements add up.
My 6A is 7 mph faster than a friends 6, both are powered by 0-320's with 80
inch metal sensenich props. It is not that I build better than he did, but
I
have PR wheelpants, holy cowl with plenum, Tracy Saylor gear leg fairings
,and sheared wing tips. His airplane was built 5-6 years ago and he has had
800 hours of fun flying and still loves his airplane even if it is 7 mph
slower.
Saying something has more wetted area and a higher flat plate area is kinda
of redundant. I think we are confusing flat plate area with cross-sectional
area.
If folks are really interested in this type thing, there are numerous good
books out there on aerodynamics. The important thing is to get your
airplane
built and flying and to learn how to fly it safely. Van (even though he has
no formal aero training, he is a mechanical engineer by degree I think) has
come out with a stable of great airplanes and each one gets better both in
ease of construction and how close he comes to meeting his design
objectives.
Can't wait to see the 4-place even though I personally would rather he do a
powered sailplane kit.
Bernie Kerr, 6A 50 hours and down for paint
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance-JACKING AIRCRAFT |
--- pcondon(at)csc.com wrote:
>
>
> How about two of Vans axil jack adaptors and two cheap hydrolic
> 4-wheeled
> creeper jacks ( Wal-Mart @ 19.99). Thats how we did the 3 RV's here
> in south NJ....
Or you could not _jack_ it up - and lift it instead.
We had great luck lifting a -6A to slide the scales underneath.
Hooked an engine hoist to the engine lift point, put a padded saw horse
under the tail and used the saw horse to lever the aircraft into the
air with the hoist.
Worked great, and nothing blocked our positioning the scales.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Where do the dang wing skins go? |
> With the prepunched skins, the current popular method of mounting the
> wing
> ribs is to first make sure they line up with the holes in the skins.
> A
> no-brainer, except I can't figure out exactly where the skins go.
There are no no-brainers with this project. What's clear as crystal to
one is clear as mud to another... then the positions may swap on the
next part!
The best thing to do with the wings is to remember that the slop is at
the root. Measure the rib positions carefully by the plans, find the
tip of the wing (where the edge of the tip rib's flange goes), use that
as your datum and work inboard. Place the tip rib in its place and
take a stab at positioning the other ribs per measurements (should get
you close), draw your center lines on the rib flanges and then use the
skins to fine tune the rib positions.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Proseal - YUCK!! |
-----Original Message-----
>>>Boy oh boy, that stuff gets everywhere!
I used a 20cc disposable veterinary syringe to minimize the mess. It worked
very well. You can see a picture at: http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/tanks.html
It's the second picture from the bottom of the page. I used a popsicle stick
to load up the syringe. I tried a larger syringe and it was difficult to
push the plunger. I would recommend no larger than 20cc.
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
installing wingtip lights
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Pressure Recovery Nose Wheel Fairing |
> I am in the process of fitting Van's PR fairing to the nose wheel. I
notice
> that the brackets that are riveted to the fairing at the axle location do
> not touch the wheel assembly...there is about 3/8" inch "gap" between the
> fairing brackets and the wheel axle surfaces on both sides when the
fairing
> is centered.
>
> Question: Should this gap be filled with washers (tedious to say the
least)
> or should the gap be
> compressed with the axle bolt and the fairing 'squeezed' together to
> eliminate the gaps?
>
> I don't like squeezing the fairing...it would cause problems at the front
> where the nose 'cap' attaches and probably would require a lot of fairing
to
> be cut away to avoid rubbing on the tire.
>
> What did you folks do? Or didn't you have the problem?
Try modifying the design a little... Put a couple of nutplates on the
brackets where they contact the fiberglass fairing. The brackets are then
bolted to the axle once, and screws are put into the nutplates to hold the
fairings on. Then bond a strip of metal onto the inside of the fairing to
strengthen the area where the screws go through, and this strip can be the
shim you need. I also put anti-rotation pins (rivets) in the brackets to
make tightening the axle easier. I can't imagine people are taking the axle
out just to inspect the nose wheel/tire etc.. You can also glass over the
holes in the fairing which were for the axle, but this may require a thin
version of the locknut.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A O360, Airflow, CS
may fly in '01
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ENewton57(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Where do the dang wing skins go? |
In a message dated 10/5/00 8:02:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< With the prepunched skins, the current popular method of mounting the wing
ribs is to first make sure they line up with the holes in the skins. A
no-brainer, except I can't figure out exactly where the skins go. >>
Hi Jim,
Start with the inboard skin. The inside edge of the skin (closest to the
fuselage) will align evenly with the first rib flange at 22.5 Once that skin
is in the proper location, there is an alignment hole at the top outside edge
of the inboard skin that aligns with the alignmnet hole at the top inside
edge of the outboard skin (clear as mud?). In my manual it is fshown in
Figure 7-14 "skin alignment hole". When its all done you should have a 1/2"
to 5/8" overhang of the outboard skin at the tip rib at 125.375
Hope this helps.
Eric Newton - Long Beach, Mississippi
RV-6A N57ME (Reserved) (Fuselage)
Eric's RV-6A
Construction Page
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Give up? was: RV Scuttlebutt |
> > Looks like the only thing the RV-9a is giving up
> is using an O-360 and aerobatic capability.
> >
>
> Heck, the next thing you know we will have to give
> up sex and beer. No aerobatics and no O-360 why
> live?
>
Gary:
My RV-6 cost "Two wives, one girlfiend, two houses,
three rental properties, and a car." I gave up SEX,
beer, and the O-360 to have my O-320 Constant Speed
Prop RV-6. I think it was worth it.
I met and have flown three very nice female pilots in
my RV this summer. I kept the best of the three and
took her to Van's homecoming. ;-) She likes flying my
RV-6 and keeps me supplied with all the beer I can
drink while she flys my RV-6. :-) The airplane has
been rolled more last month than it has the previous
year.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
698+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com> |
As of October 2, 2000, Van's Aircraft web page states that 2501 RV
aircraft have flown. Big number huh? It got me thinking about a couple
of things that could be done with that many aircraft. First of all what
if all those RV's loaded up and got airborne at the same time. Using an
arbitrary weight of 1000 pounds empty and 1550 pounds loaded we would
have 2.5 million pounds of airframe stuff in the air and an all up gross
weight of 3876550 pounds of people gas and airplanes supported by
Bernoulli and his principles.
If we lined them all up on the ground with spinner to tail cone we would
have a line almost 10 miles long. Separate them for flight purposes by
250 feet and we would have a flight formation approximately 128 miles
long droning overhead. Imagine that many RV's flying over your house
non-stop for 45 minutes or so.
Lets compare all those RV's going to a fly in and an equivalent number
of people chartering some Boeing 747's to go see all those RV's. We will
assume that with the single place RV-3's and spouses that don't fly, the
total number of people going for breakfast is about 4700. Someone will
have to arrange nine Boeing 747-400 jets to take that many builders,
gawkers and wannabes. The airport is 500 miles away.
Some numbers:
RV's 747-400 domestic
Seats 1-2 524
Hungry people 4700 4716
Aircraft required 2501 9
All up gross weight 3876550 lbs 7497000 lbs
Weight of tin 2500000 lbs 5301000
lbs
Total fuel required 63800 US gallons 134600 US gallons
Time on route 3 hours 1 hour
Seat miles/gallon 36.9 17.5
People weight
Before breakfast 799000 lbs 801720 lbs
After breakfast 808400 lbs 811152
lbs
Bar service? No Yes
Restrooms No Yes
RV grins generated Yes No
Plans available Yes No
All those poor people in economy would have just enough time to
de-plane, stretch their legs and get through the gate in order to see
all those RV's arrive. All in jest of course, but 2501 "homemade"
airplanes is a lot of airplanes.
Terry Jantzi
--
<http://www.netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/> Home Page
<http://www.ontariorvators.org> VAFOW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Where do the dang wing skins go? |
I just finished up this part but since I don't have the skins on yet I don't
know if my method worked.
Your inboard rib locations up to station 63.5 are dictated by the placement
of the angles that moung to the spar. If you've already positioned the
angle locations (like I did) then use station 63.5 (the same station where
the two skins overlap) as the reference point and work your way in/out from
there. If you haven't positioned the inboard angles accurately then you
might have some problems. You need to accurately position the main skins on
the spar (1" from the forward edge), then mark a line on the flange of the
spar as your reference for the rib. Keep in mind that the leading edge ribs
need to line up with the main ribs. If you've already mounted the angles
for the leading edge ribs, then this might be a problem since they might not
line up with main ribs.
If I was to do it over, I wouldn't have predrilled and mounted any of the
support angles until after I had fit the skins. Luckily, I didn't have to
remake or redrill any of the angles but it was/is close. I didn't document
this part as clearly as I could have but you can see a little of what I'm
talking about here:
http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page/wings_assembly_skeleton.htm
Mike Nellis - RV-6 Wings N699BM (res)
Plainfield, IL
http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 8:58 AM
Subject: RV-List: Where do the dang wing skins go?
>
> With the prepunched skins, the current popular method of mounting the wing
> ribs is to first make sure they line up with the holes in the skins. A
> no-brainer, except I can't figure out exactly where the skins go. The
> empennage spars were prepunched, so there was a beginning point for
> attaching the skins. Not so with the wings! I have pored over the
drawings
> and the only thing I have found is a section view that shows the tank skin
> overlapping the main spar by 1 inch, and the inboard (bottom) skin
> overlapping it by 1/2 inch. But where does that puppy go spanwise? Call
me
> an idiot, but if the answer is obvious on the plans, I can't find it.
> Thanks in advance for all your help and advice.
>
>
> Jim Bower
> St. Louis, MO
> RV-6A N143DJ
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)micron.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Unbelievable Info was "N" Numbers |
Be forewarned though, that this was a VERY light paint job. Primer, plus 1
tack
coat and one medium coat of white paint. I was willing to forgo a deep
gloss for light weight. The actual paint job weighs right at 15 pounds. I
also plan on a couple of trim stripes that will probably add a pound or two.
Ed
> Atta Boy Ed, your'e the first person thats been able to tell me what his
paint
> job weighed, roughly 20 lbs. I expected a lot more. Thanks
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcbraem(at)home.com |
| Subject: | Re: O-360 C/S RATIO? |
Scott--
Sorry, I missed your question the first time around.
My Lycoming Manual for the -360 series says:
prop governor AN20010
--mounted on accessory housing 0.866:1 clockwise
--mounted on crankcase 0.895:1 clockwise
Boyd
> >
> >Dear listers
> >i am looking for a prop govenor for an o-360 a1d. the local prop guy asked
> >me
> >what was the engine's gear drive ratio. it is either .866-1 or .850-1,
> >engine gurus please inlighten me as to what they are talking about. i have
> >the engine and c/s prop that van sells. what prop gov do i need?
> >thanks in advance
> >scott
> >tampa
> >rv6a can't hang engine untill i get a prop gov.
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Give up? was: RV Scuttlebutt |
> I met and have flown three very nice female pilots in
> my RV this summer. I kept the best of the three and
> took her to Van's homecoming. ;-) She likes flying my
> RV-6 and keeps me supplied with all the beer I can
> drink while she flys my RV-6. :-) The airplane has
> been rolled more last month than it has the previous
> year.
Hmmm... makes me wonder... anybody claiming Mile High Club re-currency
in a -6/-6A?
:)
Thank God for Navaid!
:) ;) :)
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
Terry,
This is your boss speaking....GET BACK TO WORK. Or if you're retired, GET
BACK TO BUILDING. Or if you're retired and the plane is finished GET BACK
TO FLYING. Or if you're bored of flying so much...CAN I BORROW YOUR PLANE?
:-)
Bill
-4 wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Jantzi" <tjantzi(at)netrover.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 11:28 AM
Subject: RV-List: 2501 RV's
>
> As of October 2, 2000, Van's Aircraft web page states that 2501 RV
> aircraft have flown. Big number huh? It got me thinking about a couple
> of things that could be done with that many aircraft. First of all what
> if all those RV's loaded up and got airborne at the same time. Using an
> arbitrary weight of 1000 pounds empty and 1550 pounds loaded we would
> have 2.5 million pounds of airframe stuff in the air and an all up gross
> weight of 3876550 pounds of people gas and airplanes supported by
> Bernoulli and his principles.
>
> If we lined them all up on the ground with spinner to tail cone we would
> have a line almost 10 miles long. Separate them for flight purposes by
> 250 feet and we would have a flight formation approximately 128 miles
> long droning overhead. Imagine that many RV's flying over your house
> non-stop for 45 minutes or so.
>
> Lets compare all those RV's going to a fly in and an equivalent number
> of people chartering some Boeing 747's to go see all those RV's. We will
> assume that with the single place RV-3's and spouses that don't fly, the
> total number of people going for breakfast is about 4700. Someone will
> have to arrange nine Boeing 747-400 jets to take that many builders,
> gawkers and wannabes. The airport is 500 miles away.
>
> Some numbers:
>
> RV's
747-400 domestic
>
> Seats 1-2
524
> Hungry people 4700
4716
> Aircraft required 2501 9
> All up gross weight 3876550 lbs
7497000 lbs
> Weight of tin 2500000 lbs
5301000 lbs
> Total fuel required 63800 US gallons 134600
US gallons
> Time on route 3 hours
1 hour
> Seat miles/gallon 36.9 17.5
>
> People weight
> Before breakfast 799000 lbs 801720
lbs
> After breakfast 808400 lbs
811152 lbs
> Bar service? No Yes
> Restrooms No Yes
> RV grins generated Yes No
> Plans available Yes
No
>
> All those poor people in economy would have just enough time to
> de-plane, stretch their legs and get through the gate in order to see
> all those RV's arrive. All in jest of course, but 2501 "homemade"
> airplanes is a lot of airplanes.
>
> Terry Jantzi
>
> --
> <http://www.netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/> Home Page
> <http://www.ontariorvators.org> VAFOW
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
PLease un-subscribe me from your list.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Give up? was: RV Scuttlebutt |
Please unsubscribe me!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: O-360 C/S RATIO? |
please unsubscribe me
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Where do the dang wing skins go? |
please unsubscribe me
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Unbelievable Info was "N" Numbers |
Please take me off your list.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pressure |
>Hi Rick,
>
>What did you finally resolve? If it was on the list, I missed it.
>
>Bernie
Bernie,
All seems well with the fuel pressure. I replaced the bum fuel transducer.
I read 6 psi on the ground at TO with or without the facet pump running.
Climb to pattern altitude I see 5 psi. At cruise, I see 3-4 psi. With the
engine running, I don't see an increase in pressure when the facet is turned
on. I guess it can not overcome the psi generated by the engine pump.
I did find my float bowl screws loose. I got about one flat turned on each
screw & locked them back down. I have not had a flooded carb since.
I don't know if any of this caused the carb to flood. The float could have
just gotten stuck that evening.
Rick Caldwell
-6 136 hrs
Melbourne, Fl Fixing/painting cowl due to alt. pulley & other stuff
I'd rather not be doing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Hey Terry, been doing high altitude flights without the OX mask
again?????
Sam Buchanan
========================
Terry Jantzi wrote:
>
>
> As of October 2, 2000, Van's Aircraft web page states that 2501 RV
> aircraft have flown. Big number huh? It got me thinking about a couple
> of things that could be done with that many aircraft. First of all what
> if all those RV's loaded up and got airborne at the same time. Using an
> arbitrary weight of 1000 pounds empty and 1550 pounds loaded we would
> have 2.5 million pounds of airframe stuff in the air and an all up gross
> weight of 3876550 pounds of people gas and airplanes supported by
> Bernoulli and his principles.
>
> If we lined them all up on the ground with spinner to tail cone we would
> have a line almost 10 miles long. Separate them for flight purposes by
> 250 feet and we would have a flight formation approximately 128 miles
> long droning overhead. Imagine that many RV's flying over your house
> non-stop for 45 minutes or so.
>
> Lets compare all those RV's going to a fly in and an equivalent number
> of people chartering some Boeing 747's to go see all those RV's. We will
> assume that with the single place RV-3's and spouses that don't fly, the
> total number of people going for breakfast is about 4700. Someone will
> have to arrange nine Boeing 747-400 jets to take that many builders,
> gawkers and wannabes. The airport is 500 miles away.
>
> Some numbers:
>
> RV's 747-400 domestic
>
> Seats 1-2 524
> Hungry people 4700 4716
> Aircraft required 2501 9
> All up gross weight 3876550 lbs 7497000
lbs
> Weight of tin 2500000 lbs 5301000
lbs
> Total fuel required 63800 US gallons 134600 US
gallons
> Time on route 3 hours 1
hour
> Seat miles/gallon 36.9 17.5
>
> People weight
> Before breakfast 799000 lbs 801720 lbs
> After breakfast 808400 lbs 811152
lbs
> Bar service? No Yes
> Restrooms No Yes
> RV grins generated Yes No
> Plans available Yes No
>
> All those poor people in economy would have just enough time to
> de-plane, stretch their legs and get through the gate in order to see
> all those RV's arrive. All in jest of course, but 2501 "homemade"
> airplanes is a lot of airplanes.
>
> Terry Jantzi
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-List Pressure Recovery Wheel Pants |
"Fits fine in the standard Vans aircraft nose wheel fork/tire assembly when
installed correctly." This quote is from Scott McDaniels' posting a bit
earlier. Let me tell you, Scott, that is NOT the case. When you put the axle
holes WHERE INDICATED in the molded-in marks, the nose cap WILL NOT FIT !!!
Van's fiberglass has always been (in my experience) not too great...see all
the archive messages regarding the tail fairing for example....As far as I
can see I just wasted around $90 for something that will not fit!!!!!
RV6A Flying Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Electrical stuff |
"Van Artsdalen, Scott"
I just completed a few of the electrical "things" that had to be done for my
-4 and thought you guys might like to hear about it. First off, since Bob
Knuckolls sells the MicroAir 760 complete with pre-wired harness, and I
already had bought a MA 760, I asked him if he'd sell me just the harness
along with some other items I had bought from him. Well he did. The stuff
arrived just the other day. The harness came with a two page wiring diagram
that was pretty self-explanatory. The yellow wire goes here. The black
wire goes there. Follow the picture. Plug in the wires. Good workmanship
and saved me a little time.
Second, I bought the MicroMonitor kit from Rocky Mountain. I used to be an
electronic technician. How hard could it be? Well...it wasn't. Really! I
budgeted about two weeks to fully assemble the kit. I ended up having it
fully assembled in just over 4 days of part time labor. I estimate it took
about 8 hours to fully assemble. It looks kind of intimidating at first
with all those resisters, capacitors, and IC's. But it really isn't. All
the components are clearly labeled and the instructions are very precise, no
step was left out and you check off each step. Components like the
resisters come taped to a piece of cardboard with labels for each resistor
labeling them 3 ways. It will say 10K ohm BRN-BLK-ORN (that's the right
code isn't it Bob?) and then there will be the resistor. (the color code on
the resistor is the third label if you're wondering what the 3rd way was).
Anyway it was pretty easy. Though the soldering is kind of intense. I used
to do it for a living so it wasn't that big a deal to me but if you are the
least bit intimidated by soldering, practice on something before you start.
You also need to use a pencil tip soldering iron, and use a light touch.
But that's really not as hard as it sounds. When the moment of truth came
and I hooked it up to my battery, no smoke escaped and the display came up!
Pretty good feeling! If you want to save a few buck don't be shy about
building the MicroMonitor yourself!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Adminstrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
"Fear of failure is only for the weak and arrogant,
for those who foolishly think that somehow they
can achieve success without paying the price."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-List Pressure Recovery Wheel Pants |
"Van Artsdalen, Scott"
What do you expect to accomplish by venting at Scott that way? Call up
customer service and tell them that you couldn't get it to fit and you want
to return it. Or else call Van's support and ask them what you can do to
make it fit. A lot of times things didn't fit for me because I wasn't doing
it right. ARE YOU ABLSOLUTELY SURE THIS IS NOT THE CASE??
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Adminstrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
"Fear of failure is only for the weak and arrogant,
for those who foolishly think that somehow they
can achieve success without paying the price."
-----Original Message-----
From: John [mailto:fasching(at)amigo.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: RV-List Pressure Recovery Wheel Pants
"Fits fine in the standard Vans aircraft nose wheel fork/tire assembly when
installed correctly." This quote is from Scott McDaniels' posting a bit
earlier. Let me tell you, Scott, that is NOT the case. When you put the axle
holes WHERE INDICATED in the molded-in marks, the nose cap WILL NOT FIT !!!
Van's fiberglass has always been (in my experience) not too great...see all
the archive messages regarding the tail fairing for example....As far as I
can see I just wasted around $90 for something that will not fit!!!!!
RV6A Flying Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Christie" <billc(at)dancris.com> |
Glenn,
I thought about just doing it that way, but I don't have a 5/8' drill bit. I
was using a unibit to run it out and once you do the F804B, it is difficult
to center the unibit to open up the angle. I looked through all the other
drawings in this area and while I could have missed something, I couldn't
see an interference for a 1x1 angle. Fortunately, there is "Glendal Metal
Supply" just down the street, so I bought 2 feet of 6061 structural and made
2 new parts. Fit nice. I was carefull to use the same rivet spacing from the
angle to ensure the correct floor height.
Now to try and support this whole mess upside down on the jig and connect
the floor ribs!!
Bill C., RV8A, Phoenix
----- Original Message -----
From: glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: F-804J
>
> Bill: I am curently building this very bulkhead. Here
> is how you put the piece on you are talking about. On
> the anodized web, (F804 a or b? I cant remember.)
> locate your rudder cable hole and drill it out for the
> 5/8" hole. The angle piece you are having problems
> with go ahead and rivet it on without the 5/8" hole in
> it. after the angle piece is riveted on, back drill to
> open up the angle this will keep that piece from
> buckling on you. I hope this helps.
> Glenn Williams
> archive this one please
> --- Bill Christie wrote:
> >
> >
> > Listers,
> > I am putting together the F804 bulkhead assembly on
> > an RV8A and ran into a
> > problem. On the aft side of the F804 there are 2
> > pieces made of the
> > .063X3/4X3/4 angle. These are used for floor
> > supports. The problem is that
> > the 3/16" hole is enlarged to 5/8" to install a
> > bushing for the rudder
> > pedals. When I use a unibit to enlarge the 3/16"
> > hole out to 5/8", it cuts
> > out to the edge, breaking open that flange. I have
> > now made 2 of these with
> > the same results. There appears to be 2
> > possibilities here: use a 3/4 by 1
> > angle or rivet it on and then enlarge the hole,
> > ignoring the fact that the
> > flange is broken. If someone has a cure / suggestion
> > here, I would certainly
> > appreciate it.
> >
> > Thanks Much,
> >
> > Bill C., RV8A, Phoenix
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ====
> Glenn Williams
> 8A
> A&P
> N81GW
>
> Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
> http://photos.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-List Pressure Recovery Wheel Pants |
the orndolf tapes (spelling ) mentions having to move the hole about 3/4 to 1
inch, fill in the factory hole.
i don't recall everything about it and my tapes are loaned out.
scott
tampa
rv6a mounting wheel pants
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | cherry rivet question |
i talked to bob avery today and he said that the cherry rivets are as strong
as ... however, it is the EXPENSE ($$$$) that's the downside. he said to
look in wicks, and i see several types: cherry q, cherry max, cherry n
commercial, and plain cherry. which ones??????????????????? bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
In a message dated 9/26/00 11:31:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com writes:
> I can't imagine what possessed you to make such a rude and cruel
> comment about a person who has done so much to help out on this list.
>
I agree with Pat, Kevin has always bent over backwards to be accomodating to
help me with questions and I hope that these type words will not be used on
this list for folks who are making an effort to be helpful.
Bernie Kerr, 6A 50 hours and holding for painting
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter laurence <plaurenc(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Give up? was: RV Scuttlebutt |
Gary,
Take it from one one has 4 teenagers and a wife for thirty years( who
doesn't fly)-
Your in HEAVEN!
Peter
"Gary A. Sobek" wrote:
>
>
>
> Gary:
>
> My RV-6 cost "Two wives, one girlfiend, two houses,
> three rental properties, and a car." I gave up SEX,
> beer, and the O-360 to have my O-320 Constant Speed
> Prop RV-6. I think it was worth it.
>
> I met and have flown three very nice female pilots in
> my RV this summer. I kept the best of the three and
> took her to Van's homecoming. ;-) She likes flying my
> RV-6 and keeps me supplied with all the beer I can
> drink while she flys my RV-6. :-) The airplane has
> been rolled more last month than it has the previous
> year.
>
> ====
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 698+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
>
> Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
> http://photos.yahoo.com/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle quadrant curved cover |
>
>Someone made a curved cover for their throttle quadrant that looked a lot
>better than leaving it 'uncovered'. Anyone know who did that? I'm
>searching for the pic.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bill in Tucson
Do you mean Lyle Hefel's RV-8? Pictures at:
http://www.egroups.com/files/rv8list/
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (misc fuselage stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.nbci.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> |
| Subject: | Elevator in trail? |
Thanks a miilion to all that answered my earlier posts!
How do you best determine that the elevator(s) are in trail except aligning
counter balance skin with HS? I can only see that eye-balling it will be
best bet due to the taper of the elevator skins. I am about to drill the
horns to the center bearing and like to make this right since I read many
horror stories in the archives. I see that some listers say that the
elevators are NOT in trail when the counter weight skin is aligned with HS.
How can they tell?
I noticed that one horn is about 1/8" lower than the other when the counter
balance skins are aligned with HS. Hope this won't cause a big problem for
push-rod mounting. I guess I either mounted one a bit higher than the other
when making skeleton or that the weldments are not 100% correct. The
distance between the horns is consistent from top to bottom though and the
trailing edge from one elevator to the other looks straight and ok.
Also, the counter balance skins are rubbing the HS skin were the HS tips are
to be installed when adjusting the rod-end bolts to specs. Do I back off
with the bolts or trim the skin (pre-punch).
Will I still be ok with this misalignment of horns?
Are
RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scot Stambaugh <sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com> |
I have a buyer for my Cessna 206 but I can't seem to find a easy way to get
a FAA Bill-of-Sale for from the FAA web site. Can anybody help?
If your wondering what this has to do with building airplanes, I need the
money from this sale to buy the engine and avionics for the F1 Rocket in my
garage.
thanks,
scot
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Ludwig" <ludwig(at)azstarnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical stuff - uMonitor |
Ditto on the uMonitor. Excellent kit, clear instructions, nice packaging
and worked right off the bat!
- Bill in Tucson
Building the uEncoder now...
-----Original Message-----
From: Van Artsdalen, Scott <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Date: Thursday, October 05, 2000 11:49 AM
Subject: RV-List: Electrical stuff
>
>I just completed a few of the electrical "things" that had to be done for
my
>-4 and thought you guys might like to hear about it. First off, since Bob
>Knuckolls sells the MicroAir 760 complete with pre-wired harness, and I
>already had bought a MA 760, I asked him if he'd sell me just the harness
>along with some other items I had bought from him. Well he did. The stuff
>arrived just the other day. The harness came with a two page wiring
diagram
>that was pretty self-explanatory. The yellow wire goes here. The black
>wire goes there. Follow the picture. Plug in the wires. Good workmanship
>and saved me a little time.
>
>Second, I bought the MicroMonitor kit from Rocky Mountain. I used to be an
>electronic technician. How hard could it be? Well...it wasn't. Really!
I
>budgeted about two weeks to fully assemble the kit. I ended up having it
>fully assembled in just over 4 days of part time labor. I estimate it took
>about 8 hours to fully assemble. It looks kind of intimidating at first
>with all those resisters, capacitors, and IC's. But it really isn't. All
>the components are clearly labeled and the instructions are very precise,
no
>step was left out and you check off each step. Components like the
>resisters come taped to a piece of cardboard with labels for each resistor
>labeling them 3 ways. It will say 10K ohm BRN-BLK-ORN (that's the right
>code isn't it Bob?) and then there will be the resistor. (the color code on
>the resistor is the third label if you're wondering what the 3rd way was).
>Anyway it was pretty easy. Though the soldering is kind of intense. I
used
>to do it for a living so it wasn't that big a deal to me but if you are the
>least bit intimidated by soldering, practice on something before you start.
>You also need to use a pencil tip soldering iron, and use a light touch.
>But that's really not as hard as it sounds. When the moment of truth came
>and I hooked it up to my battery, no smoke escaped and the display came up!
>Pretty good feeling! If you want to save a few buck don't be shy about
>building the MicroMonitor yourself!
>
>--
>Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
>Network Adminstrator
>Union Safe Deposit Bank
>209-946-5116
>
>"Fear of failure is only for the weak and arrogant,
>for those who foolishly think that somehow they
>can achieve success without paying the price."
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | deltab(at)erols.com |
TColeE(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
>
Could you tell N4829T(at)aol.com how to unsubscribe? I know aol is
diffewrent than the rest of the world, but my efforts have gone
unheeded.
Thanks,
Benrie
> Subject:
> Re: RV-List: 2501 RV's
> Date:
> From:
> N4829T(at)AOL.COM
> Reply-To:
> rv-list(at)matronics.com, N4829T(at)AOL.COM
> To:
> rv-list(at)matronics.com, billshook(at)mindspring.com
>
>
>
> PLease un-subscribe me from your list.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George True <true(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Weight of Paint Job (was Unbelievable Info/was "N" Numbers) |
One of the best paint jobs I have ever seen on any RV is John Fleurant's RV-8.
I saw it at Van's Homecoming in 1999, it was fresh out of Craig Robert's paint
shop at the Aurora Airport. It is a vivid royal blue and intense yellow over
white, and it is the wettest looking "wet look" paint job I have seen. Craig
Roberts was there, and I made a point of talking to him about it, and in
particular I wanted to know how much weight you are talking about for such a
brilliant, shiny, and wet looking paint job. Without hesitation, Craig
answered, "20 pounds". I asked him if a paint job that light would be more
susceptible to dings and scratches, fading, etc. He said it is highly resistant
to chipping and marring, and as far as fading due to UV exposure, he said ten
years from now, the paint should still look as brand new and as "wet" as it does
now.
I don't know what paint system or products he uses, but his work speaks for
itself. Before I tell you the price, you better sit down. $5000, and that's IF
you help him remove and re-install control surfaces, fairings, etc.
You can see pictures of that plane at Paul Imhof's website, www.rvators.com.
George True
Ed Bundy wrote:
>
> Be forewarned though, that this was a VERY light paint job. Primer, plus 1
> tack
> coat and one medium coat of white paint. I was willing to forgo a deep
> gloss for light weight. The actual paint job weighs right at 15 pounds. I
> also plan on a couple of trim stripes that will probably add a pound or two.
>
> Ed
>
> > Atta Boy Ed, your'e the first person thats been able to tell me what his
> paint
> > job weighed, roughly 20 lbs. I expected a lot more. Thanks
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job (was Unbelievable Info/was "N" Numbers) |
I saw John Fleurant's -8 in a hangar at Spruce Creek this April and called Craig
Roberts as soon as I got home. He's going to be painting my -8 sometime next year.
He uses the PPG Concept line of paints and his results simply must be seen in person
to be fully appreciated. Truly spectacular. I can't wait to see my -8 painted.
Or
flying. Or even nearly done... :-)
--
Regards,
Ken Balch
Ashland, MA
RV-8 #81125 N118KB (reserved)
assorted endless cockpit stuff
George True wrote:
>
> One of the best paint jobs I have ever seen on any RV is John Fleurant's RV-8.
> I saw it at Van's Homecoming in 1999, it was fresh out of Craig Robert's paint
> shop at the Aurora Airport. It is a vivid royal blue and intense yellow over
> white, and it is the wettest looking "wet look" paint job I have seen. Craig
> Roberts was there, and I made a point of talking to him about it, and in
> particular I wanted to know how much weight you are talking about for such a
> brilliant, shiny, and wet looking paint job. Without hesitation, Craig
> answered, "20 pounds". I asked him if a paint job that light would be more
> susceptible to dings and scratches, fading, etc. He said it is highly resistant
> to chipping and marring, and as far as fading due to UV exposure, he said ten
> years from now, the paint should still look as brand new and as "wet" as it does
> now.
>
> I don't know what paint system or products he uses, but his work speaks for
> itself. Before I tell you the price, you better sit down. $5000, and that's
IF
> you help him remove and re-install control surfaces, fairings, etc.
>
> You can see pictures of that plane at Paul Imhof's website, www.rvators.com.
>
> George True
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Hooker harness installation |
For those who've installed Hookers in their RVs, did you retain the
little metal grommet that comes in the mounting bolt holes of the
belts? The flat mounting plates are themselves a perfect fit, but the
grommets spread things out too much. I'll probably run this by Hooker
tomorrow, but thought I might save myself a phone call... :-)
--
Regards,
Ken Balch
Ashland, MA
RV-8 #81125 N118KB (reserved)
assorted endless cockpit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hooker harness installation |
I also thought the grommet was too wide but in fact it will fit between the
6A safety belt mounting plates with a little spreading. The grommets
provide a bearing to minimize wear and you should use them.
If you are concerned about safety and comfort, I'd suggest you forego Van's
harnesses and get Hooker harnesses instead. The wide padding is much more
comfortable, the release/secure mechanism fool proof and more secure and the
belts are STRONG!
I visited Hooker by flying into Freeport, IL, and Scott McPhillips picked us
up at FEP and we toured the plant. I got the impression that pilots who
valued safety used Hooker. They are standard issue in planes like the Extra
200 and 300. The most impressive thing in their shop was a tension load
hydraulic ram with calibrated load cell. The material lot for my harnesses
survived over 6000 pounds tension -- over 40Gs for me.
Hooker's telephone is 815 233 5478 and Email is hoohar(at)mwci.net. They don't
have a web site and seem to be doing a booming business by word-of-mouth and
well-established reputation.
Dennis Persyk N600DP 6A O360A1A/Hartzell 0.0 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net>
Date: Thursday, October 05, 2000 6:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: Hooker harness installation
>
>For those who've installed Hookers in their RVs, did you retain the
>little metal grommet that comes in the mounting bolt holes of the
>belts? The flat mounting plates are themselves a perfect fit, but the
>grommets spread things out too much. I'll probably run this by Hooker
>tomorrow, but thought I might save myself a phone call... :-)
>
>--
>Regards,
>Ken Balch
>Ashland, MA
>RV-8 #81125 N118KB (reserved)
>assorted endless cockpit stuff
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelsonhoffrv9(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9 builders (Was: Bi-Fold hangar door) |
I ordered the RV-9 wing kit at Oshkosh. I figure with all those tail kits
being sold, there will be a cheap used one on the market in the near future
waiting for some person that only has the wings :)
Curt Hoffman Loveland, OH
RV-9A
Waiting for wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electrical stuff - uMonitor |
In a message dated 10/5/00 4:00:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
ludwig(at)azstarnet.com writes:
<<
Ditto on the uMonitor. Excellent kit, clear instructions, nice packaging
and worked right off the bat!
- Bill in Tucson
Building the uEncoder now...
>>
Ditto Ditto The thing works GREAT!
Fred LaForge RV-4 EAA Tech C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGray67968(at)AOL.COM |
Folks,
I ordered my engine from Bart (AeroSport Power) at Osh Kosh. They gave me a
delivery date of early November and said they'd call 1 month ahead. The phone
rang yesterday..........right on time!
For additional HP, Bart recommended the Superior Millennium cylinders, Light
Speed Electronic Ignition, and 9.2/1 pistons (over the 8.5/1's) on my O-360
A1A. Has anyone else gone with this combo on a 6 (mine is a
taildragger.......of course), and if so were you satisfied. FYI, I'll be
giving a Warnke ACS prop a try out before I commit on Hartzell CS. Pros and
Cons appreciated.
Also, do most folks go with the good ol' Lycoming "grey" or do some of you
spruce up under the hood with...........hmmm, maybe a nice "red" engine to
match your exterior paint? No extra charge for the
paint....................thanks in advance.
Rick Gray RV6QB (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelsonhoffrv9(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: how many RV-9A are presently under construction |
I received number 90184 for my 9A wing kit although I ordered it at Oshkosh.
I ordered the wing under my old number- 20713. I had completed the tail and
part of the wings on an RV-6 kit I ordered back in 1989 Oshkosh. I sold it in
1984 for a variety of reasons.
Vans called and was wondering why I was ordering a RV-9 wing for my 6. I
guess the person that bought my old kit has never ordered any parts under
that old part number and I have kept in alive by ordering the RVAtor every
year.
Kit is due tomorrow if Roadway's info is correct so I will be changing my
signature soon. The shop is ready and waiting and the 1989 tools are getting
dusted off.
Curt Hoffman Loveland, OH
RV-9A
Waiting for wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com> |
Pat Hatch wrote:
>
>
>
> Steve:
>
> According to FAR 45.29 (h) you need the 12" numbers anytime you penetrate an
> ADIZ or DEWIZ which I believe includes Canada.
>
> Pat Hatch
>
Pat there is no ADIZ between US and Canada, so no 12 inch numbers
needed. This information is available in the AIM.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bobdz" <bobdz(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: free expired charts |
Try donating a few to a local school. Teacher's love them. That's what I do
with some of mine, the rest I use for wrapping paper.
Dz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Gretz <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heated pitot tube |
Richard, check out my website for both the available pitot tubes and some
dialogue on how to select.
The address is http://www.gretzaero.com
Warren Gretz
Richard Luster wrote:
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> I am building the wings on an RV9, and I am looking for opinions on using
> the pitot tube that comes with the kit, or use one of the heated tubes that
> are available. I live in the Pacific Northwest and we do sometimes get a
> little cool.
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Richard Luster
> RV9A, wings #062
> Marysville, WA
> rlluster(at)msn.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Hyde" <nauga(at)brick.net> |
| Subject: | Stupid engine mounting question |
I just got my dynafocal bushings from Van's, and I don't have my manual
at home. Which side of the mount gets the thinner bushing?
TIA,
Dave 'bushed' Hyde
nauga(at)brick.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stupid engine mounting question |
--- Dave Hyde wrote:
>
> I just got my dynafocal bushings from Van's, and I don't have my
> manual
> at home. Which side of the mount gets the thinner bushing?
The thinner bushing is made of denser stuff, and goes on the mount
(firewall) side.
We recently hung an engine and the "old timers" who were in the crowd
of cooks helping insisted the thicker bushing went toward the firewall
on the bottom bolts and would prevent engine sag. It was just "common
sense"!
It also was opposite the instructions that came with the bushings.
The thinner, denser bushings on that side also help a little when it
comes to getting those &%!@%$#@ bolts in there!
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcel Bourgon" <mbourgon(at)elp.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: how many RV-9A are presently under construction |
Greetings from El Paso, Texas
I also have just completed my empennage kit and have ordered my wings.
just received confirmation on wings and they should ship on the 9th of Nov.
Kit so far has been pretty good, direction a bit lacking.
e-mail mbourgon(at)elp.rr.com
Marcel Bourgon
----- Original Message -----
From: <Kelsonhoffrv9(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: how many RV-9A are presently under construction
>
> I received number 90184 for my 9A wing kit although I ordered it at
Oshkosh.
> I ordered the wing under my old number- 20713. I had completed the tail
and
> part of the wings on an RV-6 kit I ordered back in 1989 Oshkosh. I sold it
in
> 1984 for a variety of reasons.
>
> Vans called and was wondering why I was ordering a RV-9 wing for my 6. I
> guess the person that bought my old kit has never ordered any parts under
> that old part number and I have kept in alive by ordering the RVAtor every
> year.
>
> Kit is due tomorrow if Roadway's info is correct so I will be changing my
> signature soon. The shop is ready and waiting and the 1989 tools are
getting
> dusted off.
>
> Curt Hoffman Loveland, OH
> RV-9A
> Waiting for wing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Hyde" <nauga(at)brick.net> |
| Subject: | Stupid engine mounting question |
I wrote:
> Which side of the mount gets the thinner bushing?
and as I hit "send," I noticed the manual page with
figure 11-1 sitting on my stack of "engine stuff" I
brought home to review. It's all there in black and white.
Thanks for the help,
Dave "D'oh!" Hyde
nauga(at)brick.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
I have a Chrysler alternator on my (I)O-360 and it hits the lower cowling,
I need to get a smaller alternator and would prefer to keep the output
under 50 amps, and also would like to keep the regulator external. Does
anyone have any suggestion besides the $400 units at aircraft spruce?
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL Reserved
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo
(570)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-list UnbelievableI Info |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
Subject: Re: RV-List: Unbelievable Info was "N" Numbers
Actually yes. My 6A prior to paint and with a fixed metal prop was 997#.
I
flew it that way for a 2+ years. Now with paint and a couple extra
goodies
in the panel it's up to 1018#. However, I think that all things being
equal
the 6 is about 35# lighter than a 6A.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - -
Van once weighed all of the different parts and (if I remember correctly)
estimated the net weight difference between an RV-6 and RV-6A to be about
17 lbs.
This seems to be somewhat in line with the different empty weights I have
seen for the two different models with similar equipment.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine paint |
RGray67968(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> Also, do most folks go with the good ol' Lycoming "grey" or do some of you
> spruce up under the hood with...........hmmm, maybe a nice "red" engine to
> match your exterior paint? No extra charge for the
> paint....................thanks in advance.
> Rick Gray RV6QB (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm1
Millennium cylinders and red paint make a nice match:
http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/overhaul-3.htm
(Scroll down the page.)
Sam Buchanan (RV6)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator in trail? |
----- Original Message -----
From: Are Barstad <abarstad(at)bconnex.net>
Subject: RV-List: Elevator in trail?
>
> How do you best determine that the elevator(s) are in trail except
aligning
> counter balance skin with HS? >
I used a smart level, but I was lucky and when the level said the elevator
halves were equal the counter balance skins were also aligned.
> I noticed that one horn is about 1/8" lower than the other when the
counter
> balance skins are aligned with HS.
I don't think anyone ever ends up where both horns align perfectly. Mine
were off about 1/8". No problem.
Mike Robbins
RV8Q canopy skirt(s) now rejoined as one
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas McIntyre <bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine paint |
Lycon out here in California will paint the case any color you want, so
color must not be much of an issue for our sport engines. However,
look under the hood of any of the serious F1 racers at Reno and all the
cases and valve covers are painted black for oil cooling considerations.
Tom
RV3
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
> RGray67968(at)AOL.COM wrote:
> >
>
> > Also, do most folks go with the good ol' Lycoming "grey" or do some of you
> > spruce up under the hood with...........hmmm, maybe a nice "red" engine to
> > match your exterior paint? No extra charge for the
> > paint....................thanks in advance.
> > Rick Gray RV6QB (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm1
>
> Millennium cylinders and red paint make a nice match:
>
> http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/overhaul-3.htm
>
> (Scroll down the page.)
>
> Sam Buchanan (RV6)
> "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pdsmith <pdsmith(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-List Pressure Recovery Wheel Pants |
Please, please fellow listers - let's not drive Scott McDaniels from the
list again with immature public ranting!
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Ameriking AK-450 ELT |
I am installing my ELT (Ameriking AK-450 ELT) and was wondering of those who
have installed this unit, where did you put the antenna.
I really don't want to place this 2 ft long antenna on the outside of the
aircraft.
Can it be placed in the baggage area without adversly affecting performance?
John Danielson
Finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
> I ordered my engine from Bart (AeroSport Power) at Osh Kosh. They gave me
a
delivery date of early November and said they'd call 1 month ahead. The
phone
rang yesterday..........right on time!
For additional HP, Bart recommended the Superior Millennium cylinders, Light
Speed Electronic Ignition, and 9.2/1 pistons (over the 8.5/1's) on my O-360
A1A. Has anyone else gone with this combo on a 6 (mine is a
taildragger.......of course), and if so were you satisfied. FYI, I'll be
giving a Warnke ACS prop a try out before I commit on Hartzell CS. Pros and
Cons appreciated.
Also, do most folks go with the good ol' Lycoming "grey" or do some of you
spruce up under the hood with...........hmmm, maybe a nice "red" engine to
match your exterior paint? No extra charge for the
paint....................thanks in advance.
Rick Gray RV6QB (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm<
Rick,
I ordered a very similar engine from Bart. I had mine done in black & gold
like one of the Lycoming high-performance IO-540s I had seen in an ad. Came
out great. You can see it at www.rv-8.com/pgEngine.htm. Can't tell you how
it flies yet, but soon.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, getting ready to start painting
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ameriking AK-450 ELT |
| From: | "Ronald Vandervort" <ronvandervort(at)earthlink.net> |
"Ronald Vandervort"
I bent it to the curve of the canopy and installed with a plate attacehd to
the longeron starboard side of cargo compartment. Got no beef from the FAA
inspector. The ELT itself fit nicely behind the passenger seat forward of
the flap crossbar, which made the running of antenna wire short.
Ron Vandervort RV-6 380 hrs, Seattle area
----------
>From: JDaniel343(at)AOL.COM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Ameriking AK-450 ELT
>Date: ThuSUNOct,05,528,2000200028,8:54 PM
>
>
> I am installing my ELT (Ameriking AK-450 ELT) and was wondering of those who
> have installed this unit, where did you put the antenna.
> I really don't want to place this 2 ft long antenna on the outside of the
> aircraft.
> Can it be placed in the baggage area without adversly affecting performance?
>
> John Danielson
> Finishing kit
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | corrosion on magnesium |
| From: | Blah ba Blah <daviddla(at)juno.com> |
Hi all, Is there a way to neutralized the white corrosion that developes
on magnesium? thanks, David Ahrens,RV-6A,0-320 and sensenich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BOb U." <rv3(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV3-List: Number of Antennae |
>--> RV3-List message posted by: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
>
>This message is being sent to the RV-3 List.
>Please ignore this message, if it shows up on the RV-List.
>
>Hi All,
>
>I recently saw ten (10) antennae sprouting from a RV-6A. At only 1 mile per
>hour each, that's a big speed loss. (or said differently, that's the speed
>difference between 180hp and 160hp.)
>
>I am curious about how many external antennae you have on your RV-3?
>
>I have one external transponder antenna on the belly of my RV-3.
>I also have two internal COM antennae (but only one radio?) and an internal
>GPS antenna.
>
>Jim Ayers
>RV-3 N47RV
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
N863WL has 3 external antennas.
1. Com
2. VOR
3. Transponder
My 2 WATT portable com picks up traffic easily at 50+ miles on my low profile
external antenna. Unless an internal antenna could perform RELIABLY in ALL
directions at 10 miles or more, I gladly trade off the 1 mph for it.
Cutting your performance GUESSTIMATES in HALF...
Still makes for an interesting point concerning 'antenna farms'.
Tell more about the location and..... PERFORMANCE of your INTERNAL COM antennas.
Bob Urban - RV3 N863WL
If rubber duckies are outlawed..
Will only outlaws have rubber duckies?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Paint Black for Cooling, Was: Engine paint |
> However,
> look under the hood of any of the serious F1 racers at Reno and all
> the
> cases and valve covers are painted black for oil cooling
> considerations.
Ummm... can anyone out there explain to this software weenie the
physics behind _that_?
Were my eyebrows the only ones that went up on reading this tidbit?
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job (was Unbelievable Info/was "N" Numbers) |
its funny you mentioned John's rv8, it is october, this months centerfold on
vans 2000 calendar. veryyy nicceee
scott
rv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Black for Cooling, Was: Engine paint |
> Ummm... can anyone out there explain to this software weenie the
> physics behind _that_?
> Were my eyebrows the only ones that went up on reading this tidbit?
No sir, they were not the only eyebrows to go up.....I assure you.
Bill
-4 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Orndorffs are moving |
72104.231(at)compuserve.com, truckerjake(at)netscape.net,
cynthia_burnham(at)iwhs.org, sirs(at)neosoft.com, darlc(at)flash.net,
rvpilot(at)coollink.net, DFlood1867(at)AOL.COM, Tom(at)UnityHunt.com, Mlfred(at)AOL.COM,
jglader(at)gladders.com, geneg(at)rattler-f.gsfc.nasa.gov, sgross(at)imagin.net,
WGUNN(at)dot.state.tx.us, whays(at)juno.com, SPLITS(at)flash.net,
Michaeljhundley(at)cs.com, Njhundley(at)cs.com, kiser(at)avpaxp1.ncifcrf.gov,
akissell(at)flash.net, ddmck(at)flash.net, glp(at)gj.net, dreeves(at)metronet.com,
MRidgleyM(at)AOL.COM, rv-list(at)matronics.com, cpsanders(at)home.com,
bsaxon(at)impop.bellatlantic.net, saxonl(at)ssims.nci.nih.gov,
m.silva(at)accountingteam.com, Gsmithtex(at)AOL.COM, rebels(at)netins.net,
ron(at)css.ncifcrf.gov, EHMCoFab(at)clarityconnect.com, vetxaust(at)gwtc.net,
71663.226(at)compuserve.com, Orndorffma(at)AOL.COM
We are finally consolidating everything into our new hangar at Propwash
this weekend. We will no longer be available at Hicks Airfield. Our new
address is:
15647 Cessna Road
Justin, TX 76247
And our new phone number is (940) 648-0841
Thanks to everyone for their patience during our move!
George and Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Black for Cooling, Was: Engine paint |
Mike Thompson wrote:
>
>
> > However,
> > look under the hood of any of the serious F1 racers at Reno and all
> > the
> > cases and valve covers are painted black for oil cooling
> > considerations.
>
> Ummm... can anyone out there explain to this software weenie the
> physics behind _that_?
> Were my eyebrows the only ones that went up on reading this tidbit?
>
>
Nope, I don't know the reason but even in my early high school racing
days it was known that black was the prefered color for cooling
purposes. Flat black works better than gloss, so they say.
--
Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado
RV-6A N99PZ Flying
Engine: Aerosport Power O-360-A1A
Prop: Sensenich 72FM8S9-1-83
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Orndorffs are moving |
CONGRADULATIONS !!!! Terry E. Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-List Pressure Recovery Wheel Pants |
John wrote:
>
>
> "Fits fine in the standard Vans aircraft nose wheel fork/tire assembly when
> installed correctly." This quote is from Scott McDaniels' posting a bit
> earlier. Let me tell you, Scott, that is NOT the case. When you put the axle
> holes WHERE INDICATED in the molded-in marks, the nose cap WILL NOT FIT !!!
> Van's fiberglass has always been (in my experience) not too great...see all
> the archive messages regarding the tail fairing for example....As far as I
> can see I just wasted around $90 for something that will not fit!!!!!
> RV6A Flying Salida, CO
>
Mine fit but was real snug up front near the stops. I did have to lower
the rear a little to gain some room up front for the cap to clear the
fork and other goodies. . A thin band clamp is also needed when clamping
on the gear leg fairing. There aint much room up there.
--
Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado
RV-6A N99PZ Flying
Engine: Aerosport Power O-360-A1A
Prop: Sensenich 72FM8S9-1-83
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Fuel low level warning. |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>My header tank is painted black. in the hangar I have no problem with the
>low level warning light coming on with the tank full. when I pulled the fox
>out into the sun today, the low level warning light came on. I suspect that
>light is being introduced into the header tank by the clear (but slightly
>yellow) vent line to the right tank that had the sun on it.
>
>Has anyone experienced this? How did you solve it.
When using the opto-reflective liquid level sensors, stray
light will always be an issue. Most of the applications I
designed for in the past were metalic or bladder tanks
and external lights were not a problem. In cases where we
did have to address the issue, a baffle or other shade
over the sensor tip was useful. One sensor I built had the
cone tip of the sensor surrounded by a black anodized cup
drilled with small holes. Liquid could get in to trip the
sensor but light was restricted.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Electronic ignition - |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> I have Klaus's system on the bottom plugs on my 0-320 EZ and during a
recent
>jug off inspection We were pleased to find that side of the piston and rings
>were much cleaner than the top, almost polished. I have fine wire plugs on
>the top.I had much better luck w/ the plasma system then the mag. IE no
>maintenance to the plasma and 2 overhauls to the mag. Next mag o/h will not
>happen,I'll go to another plasma.
I think this is a good move. Some builders I've spoken with
are eager to jerk off both mags and put on electronics. 90%+
of your performance gains are with the first electronic
ignition. Since you PAID for two mags and/or the discount
for not getting mags is not equal to their replacment cost,
consider putting on one electronic igntion. Run one mag util
it barfs. Put the other mag back on and run it to belly-up
time . . . THEN put on the second electronic.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jim jewell" <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Black for Cooling, Was: Engine paint |
Hi Mike,
The rumored theory is that the color black radiates heat best. the flat
black and hi heat flat black paints are supposed to work best. Also the
thickness of the applied paint might effect the movement of the heat.
That's the rumor and who am I to argue with such a highly regarded source?
Jim in Kelowna -canopy
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 5:20 AM
Subject: RV-List: Paint Black for Cooling, Was: Engine paint
>
> > However,
> > look under the hood of any of the serious F1 racers at Reno and all
> > the
> > cases and valve covers are painted black for oil cooling
> > considerations.
>
>
> Ummm... can anyone out there explain to this software weenie the
> physics behind _that_?
> Were my eyebrows the only ones that went up on reading this tidbit?
>
> Mike Thompson
> Austin, TX
> -6 N140RV (Reserved)
> Fuselage
>
>
> Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
> http://photos.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>This comes up often, usually by someone who has gotten some great "deals"
>on avionics and who tries to make it all work harmoniously. Every attempt
>I know of to mix and match avionics of different voltages has, sooner or
>later, been abandoned by those who tried.
>
>Were you living in Montana or some other cold spot, I'd suggest 28 volts
>to compensate for the effects of low temps on batteries. As an added
>aside, you could then use that voltage to advantage and reduce the weight
>of your plane by a few pounds by running lighter gauge wire.
A common misconception about batteries . . . the goal when
cranking an engine is to maximize the energy transfer from
the battery's chemistry to the starter motor. The biggest
impediment to this transfer is a combination of resistances
in battery, wire, contactors and terminals.
When GA (most notibly Cessna) went all 28 v it was mostly for
reasons of economy . . . one size alternator/battery fits all
from C-150 to C-210 . . . yes, there was some notible improvement
in cranking at cold weather with 28v . . .
In retrospect, this was mostly due to poor attention paid to
reducing system impedances. A little clean up work with choice
of wire sizes and hardware location and upgrading the starter
which had roots in the 1938 6v Jeep, there would have been
no detectable difference in cranking performance of the two
systems.
Today, the modern RG battery is head and shoulders above
the flooded batteries upon which many of us base our perceptions
of battery and system performance.
When I was helping B&C test batteries to gain STC on their
RG products for TC aircraft, we put two brand new batteries
in the freezer overnight. One was a Concord flooded product,
the other was a B&C RG. In the morning, we loaded each battery
in turn with 300 amps . . . about half again more current than
it takes to crank an engine.
The flooded battery started out at 8 volts and slid downhill
from there. At the end of 30 seconds of loading, the RG batttery
had not yet fallen to 8 volts!
This can be attributed to one and only one attribute of the
RG technology . . . very low internal resistance compared
to flooded batteries at ALL temperatures.
>But you don't. You live in Florida. Go with the 12 volt system.
>Everything else being equal, 12 volt equipment is more plentiful and
>often cheaper.
. . . not often, ALWAYS. You need to consider beyond the
cost of acquisition. Cost of ownership for a 28 v system are
real cash and time suckers compared to 14 v.
>Second suggestion. Wait until a few months before the airframe is
>finished, painted and the engine in place BEFORE buying avionics. I've
>brand new Loran and ADF units that are virtually boat anchors. Good
>deals when I bought them, probably just like you, expecting I'd have the
>thing built and flying "in no time"
Excellent advice. Electronics advances faster than any other
commodity . . . I wouldn't buy a battery or a radio until just
before you're ready to install them. Use jumper cables to a
car/boat/tractor battery or an alternator simulator to test
the airplane's systems. Buy a fresh new battery to install
before first light under the wheels.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Thread-Topic: RV-List: corrosion on magnesium
Thread-Index: AcAvWzquy2LHxyioR5eCmoc5lsk91AASmiDQ
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
| Subject: | corrosion on magnesium |
Dave,
Are you referring to controls surfaces on a Bonanza? I believe there is
a process now where the entire control surfaces are dipped to treat them
for corrosion protection. A friend of mine just had his done by an
airline mechanic (he took them in to work.)
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 53 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: Blah ba Blah [mailto:daviddla(at)juno.com]
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 12:32 AM
Subject: RV-List: corrosion on magnesium
Hi all, Is there a way to neutralized the white corrosion that developes
on magnesium? thanks, David Ahrens,RV-6A,0-320 and sensenich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | buvanni(at)us.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Lord Conical Mounts |
List: I have a 0-320A1A (modified) that will be ready to install
on my RV6A soon. I have searched the archive for the correct
Lord Mounts to use and have come up with the following three parts.
P/N's: J-6230-1
J-6530-1
and J-7401-2
Can anyone out there shed some light on which one I should use?
Thanks..........
BRUCE UVANNI RV6A QB
Ready to make the first cut on the canopy
BUVANNI(at)US.IBM.COM
PHONE: (802) 769-2822
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Meacham <bruceme(at)exmsft.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV3-List: Number of Antennae |
I agree with your assesment Bob.
I have an ICOM A21 with a vertical remote antena
http://www.seanet.com/~bruceme/ShotGun.htm, and I get comprable capability to
any panel mount, plus a lot of great features that you won't find in any panel
mount like 20 memory presets, single button emergency, Tx icon, independant
self charging battery backup. I like it a lot.
The down side is the Nav reception. Com antena work best vertically and nav
antenna work best flat. So To get good Nav reception, I have to knife edge :)
But who cares, GPS...
> N863WL has 3 external antennas.
>
> 1. Com
> 2. VOR
> 3. Transponder
>
> My 2 WATT portable com picks up traffic easily at 50+ miles on my low profile
> external antenna. Unless an internal antenna could perform RELIABLY in ALL
> directions at 10 miles or more, I gladly trade off the 1 mph for it.
>
> Cutting your performance GUESSTIMATES in HALF...
> Still makes for an interesting point concerning 'antenna farms'.
>
> Tell more about the location and..... PERFORMANCE of your INTERNAL COM
antennas.
>
Bruce Meacham
bruceme(at)exmsft.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ameriking AK-450 ELT |
In my 6A the BNC bulkhead connector is mounted in the horizontal triangular
gusset at the bottom of the cabin frame (roll bar). At the gusset it is 2
3/4 inches aft of the roll bar and then curves up to a point 6 1/2 inches
aft of the roll bar and 1 1/2 inches off the top C-channel running between
roll bar and aft baggage compartment bulkhead. It is Ty-wrapped to a
cylindrical Plexiglas standoff screwed to the C-channel. Access to baggage
compartment is not compromised.
In this configuration RF from the antenna is radiated both directly and via
compartmental reflections. I checked radiation at 121.5 MHz on the hour and
the signal was very strong. I did not run an antenna pattern, but I am sure
that signals on 121.5 and 243. 0 MHz will be received by the satellites and
any airborne or ground-based receivers within a reasonable search radius at
any final resting attitude of the plane. The sensitivity of the satellites
is quite remarkable and many carriers still monitor 121.5.
Dennis Persyk amateur radio N9DP 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 0.0 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
-----Original Message-----
From: JDaniel343(at)AOL.COM <JDaniel343(at)AOL.COM>
Date: Thursday, October 05, 2000 11:57 PM
Subject: RV-List: Ameriking AK-450 ELT
>
>I am installing my ELT (Ameriking AK-450 ELT) and was wondering of those
who
>have installed this unit, where did you put the antenna.
>I really don't want to place this 2 ft long antenna on the outside of the
>aircraft.
>Can it be placed in the baggage area without adversly affecting
performance?
>
>John Danielson
>Finishing kit
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>Want to jump or charge your 24 volt battery - consider a
>charger that is 6, 12 & 24 or a 24 volt only. If you need to jump
>start it it takes two, care and really long cables or you need to
>have the proper high $$$ adapter to plug into a power unit.
Ground power is a strong driving issue . . . you can jump
start your 14 v airplane from a vehicle.
>I don't find the worry about using converters powering gauges
>such as fuel pressure since a 24volt battery is still using less
>amperage, it should last longer.
24 v batteries are two 12 v batteries in series with smaller
cells. For the same ENERGY storage, you need the same number
of pounds of lead and acid . . . but a 24 volt battery has
more plastic in it and is probably heavier/larger by some
small amount than the equivalent 12 v battery. Given the
smaller plate area/chemistry per cell, I've noted that the
24 v battery is less tolerant to deep discharge cycles
than the 12 v with fatter cells . . . all other things being equal,
I think the 12 v battery will outlast the 24 in similar service.
>Light bulbs will cost more (24 V) unless there is more of a
>quantity built for 24 volt than 12 volt.
12 v lamps are made in tens of millions . . . further, you
have more options for some REALLY nice exterior lighting.
Taked for example the lamp you can see at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/4352.JPG
is about 2" tall, 5" wide, puts out lots of light on 55
watts (about 4.5 amps drain on system) and fits very
nicely in the leading edge of a wing. Further, it's
a modern, automotive halogen that will probably last
for the lifetime of your airplane.
>I do like the more watts offered by 24 volt comm's example;
>KX-155 or 165 7.5 watts (12 volt) broadcast verses 10 watts (24 volt).
>KX-196 or 197 - the 12 volt is 10 watts vs 16 watts for 24 volt.
>The advantage is - usually - range and clarity.
. . . take a peek at:
http://www.decibelproducts.com/mrktng-eng/scripts/freespace.cfm
This is a free space path loss calculator that can tell you
what the theroetical talk distance is between your radio
and somebody elses.
Assume you have 1 watt of effective radiated power (this is
30 dbmw in engineer-speak). Assume the guy you want to talk
to has a receiver capable of hearing a 5 MICROVOLT signal
(not difficult to do) . . . this signal would have an energy
level of -123 dbmw for a total allowable path loss of
153 dbmw
Go to that calculator and enter distances using 120 Mhz as
the frequency of interest and you'll find a freespace
talking distance of 6000 miles.
Now, there ARE other factors that ADD to your losses including
coax and antenna efficiency. Also local noise at the other
end competes with your arriving signal. Sooo . . . lets assume
that you're at 15,000 feet and talking with somebody who is
50 miles away (not over the horizon for you) . . . and he can
just read your signal when you use your 1 watt transmitter.
Going back to the calculator we find that the path loss over
50 miles is 112 db. Let us say you switch over to a 2 watt
transmitter . . .this means your signal at the other end gets
a 3 db boost. Now you can tolerate a 115 db loss between you
an the other guy and still be heard with the same clarity.
Back at the calculator we find that 70 miles is the range
for doubling your power output. Further, 50-70 miles is SO
small compared to the free-space range that one must conclude
that other factors have a strong effect on range of communciations.
Curvature of the earth, noise at receiving end and poor
selection of antennas and/or feedlines all stack up to
attenuate your signal.
It's much easier to talk further with system efficiency
cleanup than to boost transmitter power output.
>
>Two 5 amp 14.7 volt converters weigh less then 3 lbs. so,
>if a back-up is needed it's no big deal.
This is true . . . with reservations. There are electronic
components out there that let you build very light down-converters
that are also very efficient. However, they are strong
oscillators (read transmitters) that can interfere
with other systems on board . . . most notably receivers.
Unless the converter has been tested for aircraft applications,
approach with caution . . . I'm not saying don't try it
but do enough testing of your finished installation to make
sure there are no adverse effects from a relatively
unknown product.
>With all the newer call for 12/14 volt stuff, it's a trade.
>I did it because my engine came so equipped and knew
>of some of the advantages of 24/28 systems.
>One of them is how long you can crank the engine.
>However, I have always felt that if the engine doesn't
>start up in 1 to 4 blades you might have a problem that's
>being overlooked. But I want that power if I ever need a restart
>in the air.
Excellent point. I used to be able to push-start
my 6-cyl Chevy out in the street by myself. I could
just get it rolling, jump in and pop the critter into
low and it would fire off on the first cylinder that
rolled over. Keeping an engine finely tuned and understanding
a particular engine's idiosyncrasies can make a BIG
difference in starter wear, battery life, etc.
>All in all it's a personal choice but the 24volt system might
>cost as much as $500 if done correctly (that includes a 24 volt
>battery charger.) And weight savings on a Long is 16.5
>pounds by my old calculations (1983).
I'm really interested in this weight savings number. Starters
in the ol' Prestolite pig don't get any lighter at 28V, batteries
with the same ENGERY (12V/32 a.h. versus 24V/16 a.h.) are within
a few percent of each other for weight. The alternators share the
same frames so in spite of the fact that they put out 2x energy,
they weigh within ounces of each other. All things being
equal except voltage, only drops in wire size contribute greatly
to weight reduction.
Now, if you make a swap to B&C equipment from certified junk,
AND go to 28 v, the weight savings can be spectacular . . .
but it didn't happed because of system voltage change . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Paint Black for Cooling |
Hi Guys,
Here it is right out of the Sky Ranch Engineering Manual by John Schwaner:
"Kirchoff's law states that a body emits or absorbs radiant energy at the
same rate. Of all the colors, black absorbs and radiates the most heat. If
we wish to increase the rate of thermal emission of radiant energy from the
surface of a hot body, then we need to paint the surface black. If the
cooling fins are going to be painted, they should be painted black."
(Pg.205 ; Para. 3)
The book goes on to list the approximate emissivities of various surfaces
at typical cylinder head temperatures as:
Polished Aluminum 3.9% - 5.7%
Oxidized or Anodized Aluminum 11% - 19%
Lacquer Paint 30%
Sky Ranch feels the best means of transmitting heat from the engine is
through an alodined aluminum surface. They believe convection of the heat
from the actual surface is more efficient than radiation of the heat
through paint. No paint!
November is getting near and you older List members know what that means!
Al
>
>Hi Mike,
>The rumored theory is that the color black radiates heat best. the flat
>black and hi heat flat black paints are supposed to work best. Also the
>thickness of the applied paint might effect the movement of the heat.
>That's the rumor and who am I to argue with such a highly regarded source?
>
>Jim in Kelowna -canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johnny Johnson" <Johnny(at)wiktel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV3-List: Number of Antennae |
Mine has one comm antenna and one transponder antenna externally, both on
the belly. It had a VOR antenna installed inside the aft fuselage under the
horiz stab with all but about 4" on each side of the center mounting thingie
in the wind... I have removed it. Don't know if it speeded me up or not but
I like to think so...
For nav I use a Garmin 195 and just velcro the antenna on the glare shield
when using it.
Johnny Johnson
49MM -3 flying
----- Original Message -----
From: "BOb U." <rv3(at)swbell.net>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: RV3-List: Number of Antennae
> --> RV3-List message posted by: "BOb U."
>
>
> >--> RV3-List message posted by: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
> >
> >This message is being sent to the RV-3 List.
> >Please ignore this message, if it shows up on the RV-List.
> >
> >Hi All,
> >
> >I recently saw ten (10) antennae sprouting from a RV-6A. At only 1 mile
per
> >hour each, that's a big speed loss. (or said differently, that's the
speed
> >difference between 180hp and 160hp.)
> >
> >I am curious about how many external antennae you have on your RV-3?
> >
> >I have one external transponder antenna on the belly of my RV-3.
> >I also have two internal COM antennae (but only one radio?) and an
internal
> >GPS antenna.
> >
> >Jim Ayers
> >RV-3 N47RV
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> N863WL has 3 external antennas.
>
> 1. Com
> 2. VOR
> 3. Transponder
>
> My 2 WATT portable com picks up traffic easily at 50+ miles on my low
profile
> external antenna. Unless an internal antenna could perform RELIABLY in ALL
> directions at 10 miles or more, I gladly trade off the 1 mph for it.
>
> Cutting your performance GUESSTIMATES in HALF...
> Still makes for an interesting point concerning 'antenna farms'.
>
> Tell more about the location and..... PERFORMANCE of your INTERNAL COM
antennas.
>
>
> Bob Urban - RV3 N863WL
> If rubber duckies are outlawed..
> Will only outlaws have rubber duckies?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Alternator |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
>I have a Chrysler alternator on my (I)O-360 and it hits the lower cowling,
>I need to get a smaller alternator and would prefer to keep the output
>under 50 amps, and also would like to keep the regulator external. Does
>anyone have any suggestion besides the $400 units at aircraft spruce?
Nipon-Dienso alternators are about the smallest out there
for the output. You can use one with built in regulator buy
adding external ov protection per
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bleadov.pdf
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: RV3-List: Number of Antennae |
1 mph/antenna sounds like a drastic over-estimation of the speed penalty for
typical 22" whip antennae on an RV, a remark I make based on someone's
earlier calculation that the RV boarding step had just 1/2 mph penalty and it
is intuitively a much dirtier installation.
I went ahead and hung two whiskers on the belly of my 6A (ham and comm) and
stuck the AK-450 antenna (a very nice quality SS whip, by the way) up on top
through the rear turtledeck, assuming the speed penalty would be negligible.
My only dis-satisfaction with this antenna farm is that the transponder
antenna, a bare whip on the fwd belly near the exhausts, seems to foul easily
with some invisible film that nevertheless makes the xponder nearly deaf to
interrogations at low altitudes; much better every time I wipe it down with
solvent. I even replaced a Narco AT-50 that I thought was DOA because of
this... the thing probably worked fine but I didn't realize the antenna
problem at the time.
I have but one passenger step on my RV; more of a weight issue than a concern
about drag. Perhaps whoever did the original calculations on the drag from
the stes can comment on the antenna drag issue. If they don't step forward,
I will have no choice but to check the archives and name the culprit.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A O-320 Sensenich FP
Hop-Along Airfield 12VA
Clifton Forge, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hooker harness installation |
>For those who've installed Hookers in their RVs, did you retain the
>little metal grommet that comes in the mounting bolt holes of the
>belts?
I just mowed them to the right width with my ScotchBrite wheel. You do need
them in there.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
> Question: I've seen several RV's that used Sherwin Williams "Sunfire"
> (Automotive paint, two-part, tough as nails) and was going to go with this
.
> . . and start the process by using this on my interior. The PPG sounds
> great too, though. Question, what are the thoughts/recommendations re:
PPG
> for the interior. Is there a certain "type" or trade name (like S-W
> "Sunfire")? Thanks in advance.
> Rick Jory RV8A QB
The same qualities that make PPG Concept (aka DCC) good for the exterior
make it a good choice for the interior. I researched the whole paint
materials issue thoroughly and ended up with the PPG family, and Concept in
particular. Not to say that there aren't other great solutions out there
from SW and Dupont, that's just where I ended up. My local auto body shop
also does a lot of PPG business and has been very helpful which also
influenced me... need to have a good local source. BTW, Sam Buchanan's
section on painting on his web site is excellent and contains lots of good
common sense wisdom. I will be following a simlar path except I will not use
DP50 epoxy primer on the aluminum but rather DX1791 etching wash primer.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, getting ready to paint
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | A/C Panel Question |
In the 18 years of the RV-Ator, section "Panels", just before page 211 there
is a page showing many different panels. The one in the top right appears
to be a RV8. If anyone knows the owner, I would like to visit with them
about the lower center stack of radios and the Right hand Throttle
configuration.
Thanks in advance!
Jack in Des Moines, IA
RV8 elevators
Jack Textor
President
PERSONNEL INCORPORATED
604 Locust, Suite 516
Des Moines, IA 50309-3720
515-243-7687 wk
515-243-3350 fax
pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bobdz" <bobdz(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Black for Cooling, Was: Engine paint |
> From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
> Peterson Publishing came out with a "How to Hot Rod a Chevy" or something
> like that.
I think I still have that book.
________________________________________________________________________________
Mike,
A couple of other points...Van's, as does most kit suppliers, lists what
might be considered optimistic values for TRUE airspeed capabilities of their
aircraft. Also, as the builder/manufacturer, why couldn't I list and placard
an IAS limit which will allow compliance with the N number FAR allowing 3
inch numbers.
Mitch ...RV8 "funding stage"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com> |
N2579r(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
>
> Mike,
> A couple of other points...Van's, as does most kit suppliers, lists what
> might be considered optimistic values for TRUE airspeed capabilities of their
> aircraft. Also, as the builder/manufacturer, why couldn't I list and placard
> an IAS limit which will allow compliance with the N number FAR allowing 3
> inch numbers.
> Mitch ...RV8 "funding stage"
>
Actually Mitch you well find that Van's does not list TAS as "might be
considered optimistic values." You well find and I am sure most RV
pilots here well confirm the numbers he post are either right on the
money or even a little conservative.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wanted: servicable prop blade |
bob
do a search on barnstormers.com. there is a se of the blades you are looking
for there, saw them today.
good luck
scott
tampa
rv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank and Dorothy <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz> |
Rick Jory wrote:
> Question: I've seen several RV's that used Sherwin Williams "Sunfire"
> (Automotive paint, two-part, tough as nails) and was going to go with this .
> . . and start the process by using this on my interior. The PPG sounds
> great too, though. Question, what are the thoughts/recommendations re: PPG
> for the interior. Is there a certain "type" or trade name (like S-W
> "Sunfire")? Thanks in advance.
While we're talking interior paint:
1. How much do I need?
2. Someone said that they got their interior paint matched to a standard
spray-can colour so that they've got an exact match touch-up
spray-can... this sounds like a great idea to me. But is that possible
with Sunfire or PPG?
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Alternator |
Jim:
Why not buy the one that Van's sells. It is externally regulated, small
and 35 amp rated. I just installed it in my 4 and it was a great fit
under cowling.
Dave Aronson
RV4 N504RV
FWF
Jim Cimino wrote:
>
>
> I have a Chrysler alternator on my (I)O-360 and it hits the lower cowling,
> I need to get a smaller alternator and would prefer to keep the output
> under 50 amps, and also would like to keep the regulator external. Does
> anyone have any suggestion besides the $400 units at aircraft spruce?
>
> Jim Cimino
> RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL Reserved
> http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo
> (570)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin 195 dissection |
Crazy question:
Am I the only one who has thought of taking their GPS 195 apart? I was
thinking of replacing the DG with the 195 display in my "standard 6"
instrument layout. Then put the buttons off to the left side of the panel.
That would look pretty sharp, wouldn't it!? I have never cracked open the
case on my 195, so I don't really know what it consists of. Has anyone else
looked inside?
Creatively,
Larry Bowen
RV-8 fuse
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pressure Recovery Wheel Pants |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: RV-List Pressure Recovery Wheel Pants
"Fits fine in the standard Vans aircraft nose wheel fork/tire assembly
when
installed correctly." This quote is from Scott McDaniels' posting a bit
earlier. Let me tell you, Scott, that is NOT the case. When you put the
axle
holes WHERE INDICATED in the molded-in marks, the nose cap WILL NOT FIT
!!!
Van's fiberglass has always been (in my experience) not too great...see
all
the archive messages regarding the tail fairing for example....As far as
I
can see I just wasted around $90 for something that will not fit!!!!!
RV6A Flying Salida, CO
-
John,
There is more to installing it correctly than just putting the axle hole
in the right place.
Lets say you did that correctly, and it is now mounted on the fork with
the axle bolt.
If you rotate the fairing about the bolt it raises and lowers the tail
end of the fairing. At the same time you are doing this the nose end
would be going up and down also, but not as much because it is a shorter
distance from the bolt. Thus, it could be positioned so that the front
cap would hit the bottom of the gear leg.
If the fairing is properly installed so that the tail end is running in
trail from the nose end when the airplane is in level flight, it "does"
fit on the nose wheel fork.
I think the installation drawing tells you the jack the airplane so that
the longerons are level (which is very close to level flight) with the
nose wheel just touching the ground. Then use the dimension on the
drawing to set the tail end height of the fairing off the ground. This
will put the tail end of the fairing in trail with the leading edge of
the fairing (its most streamlined orientation).
I just installed one on the new RV-9A back in April and it fit fine.
Are you sure you have the pressure recovery wheel pant? If you used the
new drawing to install the old style fairing it probably would not work.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
From: George True <true(at)uswest.net>
Subject: RV-List: Weight of Paint Job (was Unbelievable Info/was "N"
Numbers)
One of the best paint jobs I have ever seen on any RV is John Fleurant's
RV-8.
I saw it at Van's Homecoming in 1999, it was fresh out of Craig Robert's
paint
shop at the Aurora Airport. It is a vivid royal blue and intense yellow
over
white, and it is the wettest looking "wet look" paint job I have seen.
Craig
Roberts was there, and I made a point of talking to him about it, and in
particular I wanted to know how much weight you are talking about for
such a
brilliant, shiny, and wet looking paint job. Without hesitation, Craig
answered, "20 pounds". I asked him if a paint job that light would be
more
susceptible to dings and scratches, fading, etc. He said it is highly
resistant
to chipping and marring, and as far as fading due to UV exposure, he said
ten
years from now, the paint should still look as brand new and as "wet" as
it does
now.
I don't know what paint system or products he uses, but his work speaks
for
itself. Before I tell you the price, you better sit down. $5000, and
that's IF
you help him remove and re-install control surfaces, fairings, etc.
You can see pictures of that plane at Paul Imhof's website,
www.rvators.com.
George True
-
This airplane is the one featured this month (October) of Van's Aircraft
2000 calander
Randal Hendersons Oshkosh winning RV-6 was painted by him by Craig
earlier this year.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Black for Cooling, Was: Engine paint |
Charlie and Tupper England
Mike Thompson wrote:
>
>
> > However,
> > look under the hood of any of the serious F1 racers at Reno and all
> > the
> > cases and valve covers are painted black for oil cooling
> > considerations.
>
> Ummm... can anyone out there explain to this software weenie the
> physics behind _that_?
> Were my eyebrows the only ones that went up on reading this tidbit?
>
> Mike Thompson
> Austin, TX
Mike,
I can't explain it, but I can give an example.
Most heat sink fins for high temp electronics like your computer's cpu
are painted or anodized black for the reason mentioned above. Believe
me, no manufacturer would pay extra to paint a part no one sees if it
didn't help.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Pressure Recovery Wheel Pants |
smcdaniels(at)juno.com writes:
> I think the installation drawing tells you the jack the airplane so that
> the longerons are level (which is very close to level flight) with the
> nose wheel just touching the ground. Then use the dimension on the
> drawing to set the tail end height of the fairing off the ground.
This is no doubt the _right_ way to do this, but is there not an acceptable
short cut: give us, using your factory plane, the dimension with the
airplane resting in its natural 3-point attitude and then we can do the
retro-fit without having to jack our airplanes into a longrerons-level
attitude, a job which (I still recall from the first-flight weight and
balance days) was a real booger.
I want to retrofit PR pants on my plane, but stories like this dull my
enthusiasm for the task.
Always looking for the easier way-
Bill Boyd
RV-6A 145 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted French" <ted_french(at)canada.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 195 dissection |
Its my understanding that the inside of the 195 case is nitrogen filled to
prevent any moisture, hence corrosion, from entering. If you take it apart,
it will probably be OK but maybe problems down the road???
Ted
Building another RV-6A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 5:10 PM
Subject: RV-List: Garmin 195 dissection
>
> Crazy question:
>
> Am I the only one who has thought of taking their GPS 195 apart? I was
> thinking of replacing the DG with the 195 display in my "standard 6"
> instrument layout. Then put the buttons off to the left side of the
panel.
> That would look pretty sharp, wouldn't it!? I have never cracked open the
> case on my 195, so I don't really know what it consists of. Has anyone
else
> looked inside?
>
> Creatively,
>
> Larry Bowen
> RV-8 fuse
> Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> Web: http://BowenAero.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com> |
Hi folks,
I have searched the archives for compressor recommendations. My priorities
are, in order:
1) quiet
2) reasonable capacity for drilling, die grinder, etc.
3) cost
4) 110 volts
Most of the recommended oil-bath style compressors seem to be of the 220v
persuasion. Am I going to have to wire my garage for 220 ("or 221,
whatever it takes..."), or are there some 110v models out there that I'm
not aware of?
Thanks.
Tim - Pittsburgh - RV8 emp coming out of box (yay!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM |
tim, i have a 26 gal, 5 hp, 110 cambell hausfield i bought at home depot for
approx. $365. it not oilless so it is quieter than the oilless. you ain't
gona find a quiet compressor. this baby can do it all. if i had to do again,i
would. also harbor freight has the above and similar models. you not need do
got the 220 that's for sure. bob in arkansas doin wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM |
if i was not clear my cambell... is oil-bath. bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com> |
<<"...why couldn't I list and placard an IAS limit which will allow
compliance with the N number FAR allowing 3inch numbers.">>
According to FAR 45.29, you can have 3" N-numbers on you amateur-built
experimental aircraft provided the maximum cruise speed doesn't exceed
180 KNOTS CAS. According to Van's web site, the highest cruise speed
listed is 212 mph TAS (for the 200 HP RV-8). In using an old non-electric
E6-B, I come up with 212 mph true = 184 knots true.
The Van's figures are for 75% power at 8,000 feet. If we assume standard
day, the temperature at 8,000 feet should be around 0 degrees C. 184 kts.
true at 8000 feet and zero degrees comes out to a CAS of about 165. So...
I'd say we're good to go with 3 inch numbers. I haven't used the whiz
wheel for a long time, so feel free to shoot me down here.
Tim - Pittsburgh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gummos" <tg1965(at)linkline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: free expired charts |
> Try donating a few to a local school. Teacher's love them. That's what I
do
> with some of mine, the rest I use for wrapping paper.
>
> Dz
Everybody,
I have another idea for out of date charts. I save mine. When I fly to
somewhere new, I take one of my old charts and draw out the flight right on
the map. I can mark all the emergency fields, put mileage marks on the
centerline routes, and any other info I might need during the flight. Then I
cut out the route about four inches on each side of the centerlines. It is
easy to fold it so that a reasonable amount of the route is visible at any
one time. It is also much easier to use than a whole chart. Of course when
I fly, I have the
current chart and, before T.O., I make sure nothing has changed on the chart
for the route. As you might be able to tell, I am from the old school and
don't totally trust the new "Electronic Devices."
BTW, I love GPS. However, my technique, is to use the strip charts I make
with my GPS. With 10 NM marks on the route, I can look at the distance from
the GPS and look down at my chart and find myself instantly. Also if the
batteries die, it has happened, I take my last know distance and look at the
chart and with a couple quick checks, I can tell exactly where I am.
One last idea, as much as practical, I no longer use NAVAIDs for my turn
points. I use airports, they are just as easy to program as VORs. It is
nice to have an emergency field either on the nose or tail.
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
HR-II slowly working on the cowl etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas McIntyre <bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV3-List: Number of Antennae |
Bill
I was told from a very reliable source that at 200 mph it takes 5 hp to pull a
rod type antennea though the air. You can ask him yourself if
you want. Names Dick, he manufactures a really cool set of all metal airplanes.
Tom
RV 3
kitrs
SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> 1 mph/antenna sounds like a drastic over-estimation of the speed penalty for
> typical 22" whip antennae on an RV, a remark I make based on someone's
> earlier calculation that the RV boarding step had just 1/2 mph penalty and it
> is intuitively a much dirtier installation.
>
> I went ahead and hung two whiskers on the belly of my 6A (ham and comm) and
> stuck the AK-450 antenna (a very nice quality SS whip, by the way) up on top
> through the rear turtledeck, assuming the speed penalty would be negligible.
> My only dis-satisfaction with this antenna farm is that the transponder
> antenna, a bare whip on the fwd belly near the exhausts, seems to foul easily
> with some invisible film that nevertheless makes the xponder nearly deaf to
> interrogations at low altitudes; much better every time I wipe it down with
> solvent. I even replaced a Narco AT-50 that I thought was DOA because of
> this... the thing probably worked fine but I didn't realize the antenna
> problem at the time.
>
> I have but one passenger step on my RV; more of a weight issue than a concern
> about drag. Perhaps whoever did the original calculations on the drag from
> the stes can comment on the antenna drag issue. If they don't step forward,
> I will have no choice but to check the archives and name the culprit.
>
> Bill Boyd
> RV-6A O-320 Sensenich FP
> Hop-Along Airfield 12VA
> Clifton Forge, VA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint your own or hire it done? |
I've extracted some phrases from what Austin wrote about painting your own:
> I do admire a great paint job and I am truly amazed at some of the
prices.....
> But would you believe a paint job costing about $400 ???
I'm trying to decide. Too early yet as I intend to fly off test time first.
But when you hear the prices of five or six thousand bucks versus under a
thou to do it yourself it bears considering each way.
Hire it done -- Advantages & Disadvantages:
Easy and I am really weary of building
High quality **MAY BE** insured.
Expensive
Do it myself -- Advantages & Disadvantages:
Much less expensive
Pride of doing it entire plane myself (except make bolts etc)
Quality is up to me
Learning experience (improve weak skills)
Lotsa labor
Possible health hazards
Equipment expense
Paint room needed
With space to set up a booth and hangar to keep plane in during its life, I
would surely do my own. Maybe in a simple acrylic laquer.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Storo" <ERSF2b(at)oregoncoast.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 195 dissection |
I thought of the same idea a few months ago, and called Garmin. They said it
will NOT work. The lenght of the wires/leads etc are very precise, and a
bunch of other reasons. I asked them to create a face with a remote keypad.
They said we have plenty of business, thank you very much. It would be a
great idea if someone can get around the problems.
Ed Storo RV-8
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted French" <ted_french(at)canada.com>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin 195 dissection
>
> Its my understanding that the inside of the 195 case is nitrogen filled to
> prevent any moisture, hence corrosion, from entering. If you take it
apart,
> it will probably be OK but maybe problems down the road???
>
> Ted
> Building another RV-6A
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 5:10 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Garmin 195 dissection
>
>
> >
> > Crazy question:
> >
> > Am I the only one who has thought of taking their GPS 195 apart? I was
> > thinking of replacing the DG with the 195 display in my "standard 6"
> > instrument layout. Then put the buttons off to the left side of the
> panel.
> > That would look pretty sharp, wouldn't it!? I have never cracked open
the
> > case on my 195, so I don't really know what it consists of. Has anyone
> else
> > looked inside?
> >
> > Creatively,
> >
> > Larry Bowen
> > RV-8 fuse
> > Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> > Web: http://BowenAero.com
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator balancing problems |
Kevin Horton wrote:
>(snip) Flutter is a very dangerous event. The tail could come off before you
have a chance to slow down. A properly built RV, flown within
Van's recommended envelope, should be free from flutter.
Two questions: Does anyone know of actual occurances of flutter on RV's?
If so, what was the outcome/cure?
Also, I think I have a rudimentary understanding of the need for the
horiz. stab. incidence angle to essentially hold the nose up slightly to
offset the inherent forward c.g. of the aircraft and that these two
opposing forces lend stability to pitch. Does a builder slightly
compensate for differing firewall-foward weight (c.s. prop vs. wood,
i.e.) by "tweaking" the incidence angle? I don't have that section of
the manual in front of me, but I seem to recall that a particular angle
is specified.
Perhaps some of those who understand these things would care to comment?
Thanks in advance!
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark -6A wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job |
"marcel de ruiter"
Use a Polyurethane coating for AIRCRAFT and stay away from automotive
finishes.
however tempting, automotive paint is designed for cars and not for
aircraft.
because aerospace finishes are specificly designed for aircraft and to cope
with the hostile environment of the skies(high temperature differentials,
high UV to name a few) they will keep their glossy finish longer, there are
really no secrets here.
Also bear in mind that Aerospace finishes are designed for a typical
finished film thickness between 30 - 60 micron depending on paint type and
spec.
Marcel de Ruiter
RV4/G-RVMJ
ACFT spraypainter
see at www.rv6.co.uk/menu.htm and go to Build Assist
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint : Re interior paint |
"marcel de ruiter"
Hi All,
to whom it may concern :
It is common practise NOT to use polyurethane paint on interior parts of
Aircraft.
Marcel de Ruiter
RV4/G-RVMJ
ACFT Spraypainter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mferrell(at)pstindy.org |
| Subject: | Interesting item on eBay web site item#461045876: RV4 / Harmon |
Rocket Flap Arm Covers
This item for sale on eBay, and thought that you might be interested.
Title of item: RV4 / Harmon Rocket Flap Arm Covers
Seller: mferrell(at)pstindy.org
Price: Starts at $24.99
To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=461045876
Item Description:
RV4 / Harmon Rocket Flap Arm Covers
This kit covers the flap torque tube arm on each side of the rear seat in the RV4
and Harmon Rocket. It comes with approximate trim lines and a rubber edge
trim. This prevents seatbelts and other foreign objects from interfering in flap
operation. The first picture shows an installed set (on the right and left
hand side). The second is the kit.
Have Questions?
Email Me!
Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at http://www.ebay.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint your own or hire it done? |
>
>
>I've extracted some phrases from what Austin wrote about painting your own:
>
> > I do admire a great paint job and I am truly amazed at some of the
>prices.....
> > But would you believe a paint job costing about $400 ???
>
>I'm trying to decide. Too early yet as I intend to fly off test time
>first.
>But when you hear the prices of five or six thousand bucks versus under a
>thou to do it yourself it bears considering each way.
>
Certainly it does bear serious consideration. I chose the "hired gun"
approach since I was also weary of building. I looked at the big picture of
just what it takes to paint...prep work (tons of it), clean up, control of
dust and bugs, mixing the paint correctly, what color to shoot first, when
to mask, how much to mask, when to pull the mask, how not to poison myself
in the process, on and on.
I do feel that any builder will spend more time and attention to detail than
any hired painter. I had some frustrations with my painter that never did
get resolved, but the overall result is a very nice looking airplane, just
not with every small detail attended to as I would have done myself. I'm
still cleaning up some small glitches in preparation for Copperstate. I know
where the runs are, which can be sanded out since they are in the clearcoat
only, but I'm having too much fun flying and showing it off to bother with
them! The painter did have to go over most of my fiberglass prep work and
came up with a smoother finish than I think I could have done. That's 20
years of experience for ya. I know I would have saved tons of money by
doing it myself. I would also probably be still working on it instead of
burning avgas with wild abandon. This decision is much like the many other
dilemmas we face in building an RV. There are seldom any truly correct
answers, just the best answer to suit your particular needs and budget.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
Alb International Balloon Fiesta underway....under leaden skies. :(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint : Re interior paint |
Hey marcel
please expand for the paint ignorant amongst us (me)
fumes ??
Gert
marcel de ruiter wrote:
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> to whom it may concern :
>
> It is common practise NOT to use polyurethane paint on interior parts of
> Aircraft.
>
> Marcel de Ruiter
> RV4/G-RVMJ
> ACFT Spraypainter.
>
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator balancing problems |
>
>Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>>(snip) Flutter is a very dangerous event. The tail could come off
>>before you have a chance to slow down. A properly built RV, flown
>>within
>Van's recommended envelope, should be free from flutter.
>
>
>Two questions: Does anyone know of actual occurances of flutter on RV's?
>If so, what was the outcome/cure?
>
>Also, I think I have a rudimentary understanding of the need for the
>horiz. stab. incidence angle to essentially hold the nose up slightly to
>offset the inherent forward c.g. of the aircraft and that these two
>opposing forces lend stability to pitch. Does a builder slightly
>compensate for differing firewall-foward weight (c.s. prop vs. wood,
>i.e.) by "tweaking" the incidence angle? I don't have that section of
>the manual in front of me, but I seem to recall that a particular angle
>is specified.
>
>Perhaps some of those who understand these things would care to comment?
>
>Thanks in advance!
>>From the PossumWorks in TN
>Mark -6A wings
Mark,
I'm not aware of any actual occurrences of flutter in RVs. However,
it is almost assured that if you went fast enough (well in excess of
Van's recommended VNE), that you could find flutter.
As far as variations in the CG of the empty aircraft - the best thing
to do is to put the HS incidence as Van recommends. After you get
flying, and have all the gear leg fairings, wheel pants, etc
installed, see where the elevator sits in cruise. In section 15 of
the RV-8 Builders Manual, Van recommends that the elevator trim tab
should be neutral to slightly trailing edge up in cruise, and the
leading edge of the elevator counterbalance should be about 1/4 inch
higher than the HS. He recommends adjusting the HS incidence as
required to achieve this.
Take care,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (misc fuselage stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.nbci.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Black for Cooling, Was: Engine paint |
"marcel de ruiter"
this discusion is getting very interesting. I'm just back from Shannon,
Eire, painting a B767. believe or not, but the dark blue on the fin feels
warmer when you lay your hand on the skin than the white on the fuse.( for
those interested, alochrome over bare metal, epoxyprimer,DeSoto,
polyurethane finish, both blue and white, DeSote urethane)
As goes for the engines ; why is a mattituck engine red, a factory Lycoming
gray and I read on the list about black Lyc 540's ?
Another thing is, why is the B2 black if you state that black radiates most
heat?
Being invisible for radar is a bit of alright, but you don't want the
nightly sky lit up by a huge IR signature...... confused, you will be....
Marcel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Paint Black for Cooling, Was: Engine paint |
.> As goes for the engines ; why is a mattituck engine red, a factory
Lycoming
> gray and I read on the list about black Lyc 540's ?
>
> Another thing is, why is the B2 black if you state that black radiates
most
> heat?
I am over my head here - but I don't think that the engine paint colour
issue is heat.
You have to consider the history of where things get started.
Bulldozer engines were *probably* painted bright yellow because it was the
best colour for the operator to detect gasket leaks (oil) out in the field
in an environment of dust, grease and other guck, back an old logging road.
Aero engines were *probably* painted dull grey because it was the best
colour for the A&P and pilots to detect aluminum hairline cracks in an
environment of flak and other military hard use. We may have red and black
and other colours now because it is no longer an issue - heat, flak or
whatever.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Burns" <hsierra(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Black for Cooling, Was: Engine paint |
I think that this is an apple Vs orange debate. white is black if its in a
light free environment. color is in the visible spectrum. heat is in the
the ir spectrum. the only difference in radiation is not the color, but the
make up of the paint. in another thread about this months ago the, paint
people said the difference is from the metallic makeup of the paint, the
black has larger metallic particles so it transferred heat better.
however, i am sure that there are white paints that transfer heat better
than some black paints because of chemical make up.
I need to dig out my thermo and physics text to get the facts on this.
R. Burns
RV4 N82RB s/n 3524
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Roseblade <davidagr(at)emirates.net.ae> |
| Subject: | RV6A additional rework to flap top-skins |
Greetings Listers,
I have just started assembling the flaps and note a revision to drawing 17
(R7), there is now some additional rework to the flap top skins at the
inboard end, ie the skin is shortened slightly and the flange re-bent. Has
anybody any experience in this ? The measurements seem a bit vague.
I will be asking Van's but due the distance involved I have to communicate
only by e-mail.
Regards
David Roseblade
RV6 - Building wings, fuselage on it's way, - Yikes
Persian Gulf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint Black for Cooling, Was: Engine paint(my $.02 worth)DNA |
Black is the best color for absortion and radiation. You can prove this
pretty easy without any high level physics. Put your hand on a black car and
a white car in the hot sunlight. Ouch,the black is hotter, i.e. a better
absorber. Run the same test about 3 hours after sunset on a clear night.
Bingo the black is cooler, i.e. black is better radiator.
If you have a self generating heat source such as an internal recip engine,
paint it black and it will radiate more heat(provided it is running hotter
than some surrounding radiation heat source. If you have skin friction
heating (an SR 71 at Mach 3+) , paint it black and it will radiate heat and
run cooler. If you need conduction to get rid of internal heat and do not
wish to absorb radiant heat, use gold. That is what we did on the bypass
ducts of the J-58 engine(the Blackbird's engine) to protect the duct from the
afterburner's radiation heat load and keep it from getting too hot from the
bypass air. If you have a fiberglass structure with internal foam, there is
no way to conduct the heat away. Keep it from getting hot by painting it the
most reflective color, white, or putting gold leaf on it($$$).
So paint your engine parts black if there is no radiation heat source, the
case inside our nacelle.
Bernie Kerr, 6A 50 hours and should have flown to SERFI this weekend , but am
down for painting and can not do it myself because of allergy problems :>((
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A additional rework to flap top-skins |
Hi David,
The inboard leading edge of the skin will impinge on the top flange
strip and rivets of the rear spar unless the leading edge is altered.
final result was about the inboard 19 inches cut and re-bent about 1/4
inch back from the original edge. Best to wait until you install the
flap and discover how much you must modify.
Good luck.
Richard Dudley
RV-6A finishing wings
Fuselage kit stashed all over the house
Florida
David Roseblade wrote:
>
>
> Greetings Listers,
>
> I have just started assembling the flaps and note a revision to drawing 17
> (R7), there is now some additional rework to the flap top skins at the
> inboard end, ie the skin is shortened slightly and the flange re-bent. Has
> anybody any experience in this ? The measurements seem a bit vague.
>
> I will be asking Van's but due the distance involved I have to communicate
> only by e-mail.
>
> Regards
>
> David Roseblade
> RV6 - Building wings, fuselage on it's way, - Yikes
> Persian Gulf
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A additional rework to flap top-skins |
Hi David,
The inboard leading edge of the skin will impinge on the top flange
strip and rivets of the rear spar unless the leading edge is altered.
final result was about the inboard 19 inches cut and re-bent about 1/4
inch back from the original edge. Best to wait until you install the
flap and discover how much you must modify.
Good luck.
Richard Dudley
RV-6A finishing wings
Fuselage kit stashed all over the house
Florida
David Roseblade wrote:
>
>
> Greetings Listers,
>
> I have just started assembling the flaps and note a revision to drawing 17
> (R7), there is now some additional rework to the flap top skins at the
> inboard end, ie the skin is shortened slightly and the flange re-bent. Has
> anybody any experience in this ? The measurements seem a bit vague.
>
> I will be asking Van's but due the distance involved I have to communicate
> only by e-mail.
>
> Regards
>
> David Roseblade
> RV6 - Building wings, fuselage on it's way, - Yikes
> Persian Gulf
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | rudder/elevator bolt installation? |
Has anyone got a good tool or tip for installing the empennage control
surface mounting bolts? I've tried a variety of pliers, vice grips &
even forceps, but haven't yet found a tool with a strong enough grip
that'll fit into the very limited available space. What's the trick?
--
Regards,
Ken Balch
Ashland, MA
RV-8 #81125 N118KB (reserved)
finish kit arrives next week; lots of fuse work left...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job (was Unbelievable Info/was "N" Numbers) |
While weighing airplanes before and after painting, how accurate are the
scales and the weighing process?
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Field <jfield(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Breather line size |
Is it important to use 3/4 inch hose for the breather line on an 0-320?
I'm installing a Christen inverted system using the B+C Vac-2 adapter. I
may use Aeroquip 601-10 for the section from the engine breather port to
the oil separator tank. Aeroquip 601-10 has an inside diameter of between
1/2 and 5/8 inch.
John Field , RV-4 Engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank and Dorothy <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 195 dissection |
Larry Bowen wrote:
> Am I the only one who has thought of taking their GPS 195 apart?
Think twice before doing this... the GPS is filled with inert nitrogen
gas in the factory and then hermetically sealed.
I don't know why they do this, but I'm betting they wouldn't bother if
there wasn't a good
reason.
Frank
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Batteries - Warning to Gel battery owners |
servers.net>
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>Remember you cannot jump gel batteries. You will "short" a cell, which
>may not be the technical description but is the effective description.
>
>I paid for three gel batteries before a Roseburg, Oregon welding supply
>dealer answered my question:
> "How do I treat this gel battery?"
> "Just like any other battery," he answered.
> "So it is OK to jump it?"
> "Hell no, you can't jump a gel battery."
I'd be interested in talking to this giver of advice to see
if he understands what a "gel" battery is.
A long time ago, in a galaxy not too far away, someone
wondered if flooded batteries could be a little less sloppy
imitation of Jello.
The idea worked . . . sorta. The batteries were indeed
less sloppy but they still leaked if turned upside down
or if you poked a hole in the side. Further, their low
temperature performance wasn't as good as a flooded battery.
Some years later, another thinker in the ways of batteries
was probably watching a TV commercial for Brawny paper
towels and wondered if a lead-acid battery wouldn't perform
better if the electrolyte remained liquid. Instead of slowing
it down in jello, suppose the liquid were completely contained
in a high surface area medium like paper towel, or perhaps
fiberglas.
(As an aside, consider fabricating a cube of .001"
diameter glass beads. That means 1000 beads along
each edge. The number of beads required to build
the cube would be 1000 x 1000 x 1000 or 1 billion beads.
The surface area of a sphere is 4 x pi x radius squared.
This calculates out to 3.14 x 10 to the minus 6 square
inches/sphere. Multiply this times 1 billion spheres
and we get a total surface area of 3140 square inches of
INTERNAL surface area! This gives you some idea of the
magic that makes an RG battery work. We know that liquids
have a certain affinity for cling to a surface . . . the
above exercise shows how easy it is to get a lot of surface
area in a small volume. Try the excercise again using
1/2 mil diameter beads.)
Further, if the liquid WERE totally contained in a
partially saturated, glass mat . . . what would, or
should happen to bubbles that are driven out of the
water by charging the battery?
This thinking was the birth experience of the gas recombinant,
starved electrolyte, vented yet sealed lead acid battery.
This is NOT a gel-cell device, yet the majority of people
who sell these things don't know it. Gel cells are still
around but RARE. They are popular in some deep-discharge
configurations for wheelchairs, etc.
>I have forgotten to turn off the master switch a couple times since, but
>never had to buy another gel battery after I started disconnecting the two
>battery cables, jumped the starter directly, and after the engine was
>running, reconnected the two cables.
Now, let's consider the physics of "jumpering" any battery
to deal with a totally flat battery. A dead battery will
draw a lot of current from a constant voltage source like
a hefty alternator . . . it doesn't matter what kind of
battery it is. A gel-cell had a higher internal impedance
than this flooded cousins . . . much higher than a modern
RG battery. This means that ANY current, charge or discharge,
results in higher internal losses due to heating. It is
conceivable that a totally dead, gel-cell battery might
suffer ill consequences for having been jumpered to a
vehicle with a fully charged battery and the engine running.
The question for the moment is, what is the true nature of
the battery that started this conversation? You have to go
out of your way to FIND a true gel-cell battery manufactured
sources but they are not the Panasonics, Powersonics,
Hawker, or Yuasas of the battery marketing world. Irrespective
of what any battery seller might say about sealed
lead-acid products, it is most unlikely that the battery is
really a gel-cell. RG batteries are quite tolerant of
high recharge rates and the few seconds of connection needed
to crank an engine are not likely to heat things up even in
a relatively tired battery.
>I have not seen this advice in print, but it was a costly lesson to
>learn buying new gel batteries.
>
>As Ben Franklin said, "Learn from other's mistakes; you do not have time
>to learn them all yourself."
Ben was a critical thinker and he would want to know more
about the conditions that precipitated his unhappy
experience with batteries. I can tell you that
multi-million dollar biz-jets get their batteries (Ni-cad,
RG and flooded) jumpered to ground power carts capable of
thousands of amp output with no ill effects. We don't have
enough data to deduce the cause of our friend's battery
failures. It is insufficient and erroneous to put out a blanket
statement about "jumpering a gel-cell battery" . . . especially
when the product in question probably wasn't a gel-cell device.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank and Dorothy <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Black for Cooling, Was: Engine paint |
marcel de ruiter wrote:
> Recalling some material from my training in Fokker Aircraft to become a
> spraypainter many years ago, a soft yellow is 12F warmer on the surface than
> white 00.
Which reminded me of some data I collected at our ski lodge back in the
80s. We had repainted the exterior a dark brown colour, and had a lot of
problems with the building... windows cracking, doors sticking,
weatherboards splitting, etc.
I attached some thermocouples to the dark paint and to the white-painted
windowsills. IIRC overnight, the dark paint was 10C colder than the
white paint. During the daytime, the dark paint was 20C warmer.
I may be wrong about the actual temperatures, but I clearly remember the
much larger swing in temperature of the dark-painted wood.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> |
| Subject: | rudder/elevator bolt installation? |
I just use my needle nose pliers and make sure to deflect the control
surface away from myself. Works well for me. I have to admit I use all the
words in the book (and those that aren't in the book) while I do it though
:)
Are
RV-8
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ken Balch
Sent: October 7, 2000 3:12 PM
Subject: RV-List: rudder/elevator bolt installation?
Has anyone got a good tool or tip for installing the empennage control
surface mounting bolts? I've tried a variety of pliers, vice grips &
even forceps, but haven't yet found a tool with a strong enough grip
that'll fit into the very limited available space. What's the trick?
--
Regards,
Ken Balch
Ashland, MA
RV-8 #81125 N118KB (reserved)
finish kit arrives next week; lots of fuse work left...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 cockpit sealing & heating |
Fellow Listers:
For the RV-4 experts: My "new" -4 shows the common situation of a reversed
flow of outside air coming in from under the rear of the canopy skirt and
blowing a refreshing stream of cold air on the passenger's neck. It has one
cabin heating inlet and it seems to bring in a good volume of air although
it is not real warm, (today it was 30 degrees OAT). There is one heat muff
and a restrictor in the air flow prior to the muff to help slow and warm up
the air. I am going to try some more weather striping at the rear of the
skirt, but was wondering if anyone has any better ideas.
Thanks
Doug Weiler
================
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Paint : Re interior paint |
In a message dated 10/7/00 6:27:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com writes:
<< It is common practice NOT to use polyurethane paint on interior parts of
Aircraft. >>
For what reason? What paint is it common practice to use and why?
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV8DRIVER(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Control Column Deflection |
Dear Listers (those with nearly completed or flying RV-8s at least)
I would very much appriciate knowing what you are getting for full aileron
control column angular deflection stop-to-stop. I am at the fuselage parts
prep stage (still) and don't think that trying to work it out from the plans
and aileron angular deflection in the manual would be realistic. Thanks for
the help, Andy Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder/elevator bolt installation? |
> Has anyone got a good tool or tip for installing the empennage control
> surface mounting bolts? I've tried a variety of pliers, vice grips &
> even forceps, but haven't yet found a tool with a strong enough grip
> that'll fit into the very limited available space. What's the trick?
>
> --
Ken,
Look at: http://rv8asite.homestead.com/tools.html
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job (was Unbelievable Info/was "N" Numbers) |
"marcel de ruiter"
----- Original Message -----
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
> While weighing airplanes before and after painting, how accurate are the
> scales and the weighing process?
The newer digital scales can read in grammes. The ACFT is weighed when level
in both planes. If the floor in the hanger is level as well than that will
be the most accurate.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job |
marcel de ruiter wrote:
> Use a Polyurethane coating for AIRCRAFT and stay away from automotive
> finishes.
>
> however tempting, automotive paint is designed for cars and not for
> aircraft.
> because aerospace finishes are specificly designed for aircraft and to cope
> with the hostile environment of the skies(high temperature differentials,
> high UV to name a few) they will keep their glossy finish longer, there are
> really no secrets here.
>
> finished film thickness between 30 - 60 micron depending on paint type and
> spec.
>
I am not sure that everyone agrees with this statement. A good friend of mine
just
had his Bonanza repainted at a well known aircraft paint shop at Dayton, Oh and
they
recommended acrylic enamel for it. I painted mine with it 4 years ago, wet sanded
it, and buffed it and I would put it up against most driveway paint jobs. Hundreds
of airplanes are flying with it today.
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder/elevator bolt installation? |
Ken I don't have a tool catalog handy to give you a proper name for it. I
call it a mechanical finger, it is about 16 inches long and flexible and has
a button on one end when depressed pushes out two fingers that have a 1/4
inch right angle bend on each end. When extended they open up wide enough to
easily take a 1/2 inch bolt. Lay a bolt in between the fingers just in front
of the head and release and they grasp the bolt very tight. Start the bolt
in and push it in until the side of the fingers hit then push the button to
release. It will also hold nuts tight enough to get them started.
Because it is flexible (mine will bend almost 180 degrees) you can put
things together in the darndest places, I use mine all the time for just
such things as connecting the elevator push rod. They are relatively
inexpensive and a good tool house should have them.
Eustace
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net>
Date: Saturday, October 07, 2000 12:27 PM
Subject: RV-List: rudder/elevator bolt installation?
>
>Has anyone got a good tool or tip for installing the empennage control
>surface mounting bolts? I've tried a variety of pliers, vice grips &
>even forceps, but haven't yet found a tool with a strong enough grip
>that'll fit into the very limited available space. What's the trick?
>
>--
>Regards,
>Ken Balch
>Ashland, MA
>RV-8 #81125 N118KB (reserved)
>finish kit arrives next week; lots of fuse work left...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Panel power jack for hand-helds . . . |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>What size wire and fuse for cigar lighter
>type 12v outlet? to be used for portable radio or gps.
How come such a hoggy connector? Cigar lighters are
designed for 10A or better . . . and of course their
diameter is commensurate with the size of the lighter
that plugs into them. They're well suited to lighting
cigars but by-in-large, don't make a good electrical
connector in a car much less an airplane.
You can see a photo of some Radio Shack parts that
are much more suited to this task at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/hh_pwr.jpg
Yes, I know it's preferable to have the powered
pins be female as opposed to the male pins . . . these
critters don't come this way. The risk of unintentional
shorting is quite small (the plug body that fits
into the jack housing is all plastic on the end) and
even if you DID get a short, this appication should be
fused at 3A or less.
Cigar lighters depend on friction to hold plug
in place, this connector set uses a metal retaining
ring threaded down on threads for the jack. It doesn't
take much corrosion or tension on a cirgar lighter plug
to make it disconnect . . . the combo I've suggeseted
is smaller and VERY positive engagement both electrically
and mechanically.
Just cut the cigar lighter plug off your hand-held's
power cord and install the new connector. Quite often
you can purchase mating connectors for the external
power jack on your handheld and fabricate a power
cord unique to your airplane . . . most of the time
they need to be shorter than the usual automotive
power cable when used in a cockpit.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job |
"marcel de ruiter"
I'm afraid John, that the fact that people use a particular type of finish
on their aircraft doesn't make it right to use it for that purpose,
regardless whether it looks immaculate or not.
The main objective of an Aerospace Finish is the protection of the airframe,
second to that is decoration.
I personally don't understand why people attempt to save, say, $500 with
automotive paint while they have already spend at least $30K
marcel
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rudder/elevator bolt installation? |
| From: | "Ronald Vandervort" <ronvandervort(at)earthlink.net> |
"Ronald Vandervort"
I use a medical plier type clamp that has an offset, and it still is tough.
Ron Vandervort, RV-6 370 hrs.
----------
>From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net>
>To: , "Ken Balch"
>Subject: RE: RV-List: rudder/elevator bolt installation?
>Date: SatSUNOct,05,728,2000200028,1:04 PM
>
>
> I just use my needle nose pliers and make sure to deflect the control
> surface away from myself. Works well for me. I have to admit I use all the
> words in the book (and those that aren't in the book) while I do it though
> :)
>
> Are
> RV-8
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ken Balch
> Sent: October 7, 2000 3:12 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: rudder/elevator bolt installation?
>
>
> Has anyone got a good tool or tip for installing the empennage control
> surface mounting bolts? I've tried a variety of pliers, vice grips &
> even forceps, but haven't yet found a tool with a strong enough grip
> that'll fit into the very limited available space. What's the trick?
>
> --
> Regards,
> Ken Balch
> Ashland, MA
> RV-8 #81125 N118KB (reserved)
> finish kit arrives next week; lots of fuse work left...
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
"'Ken Balch'"@matronics.com
| Subject: | rudder/elevator bolt installation? |
Ken,
I use needle-nose pliers. I wrap duct tape around the jaws to make them
sticky and so they don't mark up the bolt.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message-----
Has anyone got a good tool or tip for installing the
empennage control
surface mounting bolts? I've tried a variety of pliers,
vice grips &
even forceps, but haven't yet found a tool with a strong
enough grip
that'll fit into the very limited available space. What's
the trick?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job |
"marcel de ruiter"
> Your approach can turn a $30K project into a $50K project.
You certainly have a point, but I belive it is worth protecting something
that has cost 30k and 2000hrs(?) of time to build it.
Marcel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job |
> I personally don't understand why people attempt to save, say, $500 with
> automotive paint while they have already spend at least $30K
Perhaps because, like most things aircraft oriented, they believe the
'airplane paint' is more hot air and advertising crap then it is different
from the automotive paints. Perhaps the difference in price is merely
because it's 'aircraft approved' and not because there is any chemical
difference that matters. We get the idea in our heads during the building
process that anything 'aircraft approved' is simply more expensive..not
necessarily any better. Like engine monitors, in dash GPS, and
magnetos......it is not often that the aircraft approved stuff is any better
than the current state of the art. That combined with the fact that there
are 12 year old PPG painted planes flying around out there with no ill
effects and beautiful finish makes one really look at the more expensive
'aircraft paint' as another smoke screen designed to separate builders from
their gas money.
Or maybe we're all just cheap.
Bill
-4 wings
Will be painted with PPG Concept over epoxy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job |
"marcel de ruiter"
> Perhaps because, like most things aircraft oriented, they believe the
> 'airplane paint' is more hot air and advertising crap then it is different
> from the automotive paints.
I don't believe that this the case with paint. It may be so with other
parts.
most aircraftpaint is still based on "heavy metal" substances, one of the
most prominent ones being Lead....
The newer paint systems for aircraft are more based on high solids
principle.
Marcel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Cheap? (was Weight of Paint Job) |
Snip...
That combined with the fact that there
> are 12 year old PPG painted planes flying around out there with no ill
> effects and beautiful finish makes one really look at the more expensive
> 'aircraft paint' as another smoke screen designed to separate builders
from
> their gas money.
>
> Or maybe we're all just cheap.
.....Snip
I prefer the word "frugal"
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (cowl)
Vienna, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | nowakod(at)us.ibm.com |
RV-List Digest Server
| Subject: | New style wheel pants |
I have the new style wheel pants in my kit. I cannot find installation
instructions. Does anybody have them?
Don Nowakowski , Equipment Engineering Tech
Telephone (802)288-3359,
"The Laws of Aerodynamics are unforgiving and the ground is hard."
Michael Collins (1987)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Arthur Glaser <airplane(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job |
I spoke to the people at Randolph Aircraft Coatings. This gentleman felt that
the
regular aircraft enamel would be cheaper and safer than polyurethane. He was also
of
the opinion that it would hold up extremely well for the majority of us who hangar
our
aircraft. Repairs might also be easier. Just his opinion during our discussion.
John Kitz wrote:
>
> marcel de ruiter wrote:
>
> > Use a Polyurethane coating for AIRCRAFT and stay away from automotive
> > finishes.
> >
> > however tempting, automotive paint is designed for cars and not for
> > aircraft.
> > because aerospace finishes are specificly designed for aircraft and to cope
> > with the hostile environment of the skies(high temperature differentials,
> > high UV to name a few) they will keep their glossy finish longer, there are
> > really no secrets here.
> >
> > finished film thickness between 30 - 60 micron depending on paint type and
> > spec.
> >
>
> I am not sure that everyone agrees with this statement. A good friend of mine
just
> had his Bonanza repainted at a well known aircraft paint shop at Dayton, Oh and
they
> recommended acrylic enamel for it. I painted mine with it 4 years ago, wet sanded
> it, and buffed it and I would put it up against most driveway paint jobs. Hundreds
> of airplanes are flying with it today.
> John Kitz
> N721JK
> Ohio
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Lutes" <rlutes(at)owc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 cockpit sealing & heating |
Hi Doug,
Canopy skirt: I made a quick and simple seal using the "loop" side of Velcro
tape applied to the inside surface of the skirt fairing. I cut the tape into
1/2" wide strips. I positioned the strips by kneeling backwards in the rear
seat with the canopy closed (easier than it sounds). It's worked great so
far, although it will probably trap some dirt / sand over time.
Before I sealed it, I would get rain blowing forward and hitting the inst.
panel! (not to mention the back of my head). After sealing, the rear seat
pax can hardly feel any draft from the canopy.
Heat muff: The Robins (sp?) heat muff (surrounds the two R.H. exhaust pipes)
on my Vetterman exhaust has worked very well. The temp and flow seem to be
just right, as installed out of the box. I do realize that Chicago winters
are pretty balmy compared to yours!
Rick Lutes
RV-4, Hampshire, IL
> For the RV-4 experts: My "new" -4 shows the common situation of a
reversed
> flow of outside air coming in from under the rear of the canopy skirt and
> blowing a refreshing stream of cold air on the passenger's neck. It has
one
> cabin heating inlet and it seems to bring in a good volume of air although
> it is not real warm, (today it was 30 degrees OAT). There is one heat
muff
> and a restrictor in the air flow prior to the muff to help slow and warm
up
> the air. I am going to try some more weather striping at the rear of the
> skirt, but was wondering if anyone has any better ideas.
>
> Thanks
>
> Doug Weiler
>
> ================
> Doug Weiler
> Hudson, WI
> 715-386-1239
> dougweil(at)pressenter.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder/elevator bolt installation? |
Ken:
Didn't see this one mentined yet in the replies: a set of heavy hemostats
(curved variety) works for me. It has the locking ratchet on the handle
that clamps the AN3 bolts and allows you to position and slide them in.
Pat Hatch
RV-4, N17PH @ VRB, 700 hrs. TT
O-320, Hartzell C/S
RV-6, Fuselage
pat_hatch(at)msn.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Balch" <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 3:11 PM
Subject: RV-List: rudder/elevator bolt installation?
>
> Has anyone got a good tool or tip for installing the empennage control
> surface mounting bolts? I've tried a variety of pliers, vice grips &
> even forceps, but haven't yet found a tool with a strong enough grip
> that'll fit into the very limited available space. What's the trick?
>
> --
> Regards,
> Ken Balch
> Ashland, MA
> RV-8 #81125 N118KB (reserved)
> finish kit arrives next week; lots of fuse work left...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | for sale or trade: new rv6 tail kit & videos |
i'm switching to an 8. i have an inventoried but not started RV6 prepunched
tail kit for sale with elevator trim option. Also the full set of plans and
istructions, orndorff pre punch empennage construction videos, etc.
will trade for an rv8 tail kit or i'll sell for a reasonable price.
BTW, anyone have any idea about how van's would react to some kind of trade
in on unused kits?
lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
| Subject: | Panel power jack for hand-helds . . . |
>
> Just cut the cigar lighter plug off your hand-held's
> power cord and install the new connector.
>
Bob:
I did that for my Garmin 195, but I took it one step further. I also
installed a mating, in-line connector on the cigar lighter side of the
cut wire. This way I can still use the cigar lighter plug for power
if I want to use my GPS in another airplane.
Mark Nielsen
RV-6; 601 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 cockpit sealing & heating |
> My "new" -4 shows the common situation of a reversed flow of outside air
coming in from >under the rear of the canopy skirt and blowing a refreshing
stream of cold air on the >passenger's neck.
After spending what seemed forever shaving nanograms at a time of aluminum
from the rear edge of the skirt, I had a pretty close fit back there.
However, I found the canopy skirt working on the fuselage skins in flight,
the fit was so tight. To eliminate that, there is a strip of rubber "U"
channel from Aircraft Spruce (PN 05-01400) along the rear edge held in
place with weatherstripping glue. Seals well and prevents chaffing.
One can get things too tight. This summer, I landed at an airport where the
ramp temperature was 105F. After fueling and taxiing to the end of the
runway, I discovered I couldn't get the canopy closed. Expanding in the
heat, the canopy fit too tightly to get it closed. I had to roll it into a
hanger and let it cool to get it to close. THAT was strange. Hasn't
happened since.
> It has one cabin heating inlet and it seems to bring in a good volume of
air although
>it is not real warm.........
I have the double-stack Robbins heater muff and it puts out adequate heat
on most days. The screen door spring inside the muff has been discussed
(see archives). I haven't had to resort to that. I also have a 2 inch hole
in the upper baggage bulkhead for air to flow out of the cockpit. I can't
tell you if it made that much difference as there may already be adequate
airflow without it but it seemed like such a great idea...............
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
It's cooling down around here.........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | Panel power jack for hand-helds . . . |
I bought another cig lighter adapter for my airmap and a connector that
matches the Airmap end. I made a small aluminum tab and mounted it below the
panel. I installed the female end of the connector and hooked up power from
the buss bar (fused). Now I have the original cig lighter adapter and my
custom one that is much smaller and provides a superior connection.
Greg Tanner
RV-9A Empennage
SER #90186 N80BR RESERVED
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark Nielsen
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 8:26 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Panel power jack for hand-helds . . .
>
> Just cut the cigar lighter plug off your hand-held's
> power cord and install the new connector.
>
Bob:
I did that for my Garmin 195, but I took it one step further. I also
installed a mating, in-line connector on the cigar lighter side of the
cut wire. This way I can still use the cigar lighter plug for power
if I want to use my GPS in another airplane.
Mark Nielsen
RV-6; 601 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job |
My airplane has to be tied out in the open due to no hangars available. It
will see weather for nearly 9000 hours a year! The airplane with a hangar
will see a few hundred. One may easily be 50 times the other and this seems
to me would be a major factor in paint decisions. Acrylic enamel or laquer
for a hangared plane would be cheaper, easier and safer than the
polyurethanes if I am understanding correctly.
I believe the simpler coatings are also easier to repair or redo.
Some of the paint jobs on autos that sit out all the time do well and others
don't. Now that I think about it, the cars that look like my '84 Mazda RX7
which is black and named 'Faded Glory' are mostly dark colors.
Most airplanes are hangared most of the time. Few have trees drip on them,
road film accumulations, salt from the winter streets, blowing sand and
whatever. Auto paints do take some abuse.
As to cost, I quote Sen. Everett Dirksen on government spending, "A billion
here, a billion there, it adds up."
hal
Arthur wrote:
> I spoke to the people at Randolph Aircraft Coatings. This gentleman felt
that the
> regular aircraft enamel would be cheaper and safer than polyurethane. He
was also of
> the opinion that it would hold up extremely well for the majority of us
who hangar our
> aircraft. Repairs might also be easier. Just his opinion during our
discussion.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Stiffener "Dings" on Skin |
Hi Friends,
When doing the rudder, and with the right elevator at the trailing edges, the stifferners
are
leaving a very small ding on the outside of the skin. I have made sure when riveting
and handling
the skins not to "stress" the stiffener edge into the skin. Any ideas???? Should
I extend them
to the trailing edge or perhaps shorten them a bit??? Thanks in advance!!
Jack in Des Moines
RV8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job |
>
>I personally don't understand why people attempt to save, say, $500 with
>automotive paint while they have already spend at least $30K
>
>marcel
>
SAVE $500?? Not hardly! I received a quote to paint my airplane using Jet
Glo ("aircraft" paint) that was $4500. I ended up paying over $5k to use
PPG urethane/clearcoat. Much nicer finish and tough as nails. The clearcoat
feels like a plastic hard shell. Granted, I have only about 20 hours on
it, but some of that was through rain and great swarms of gooey bugs
impacting at 200mph. YUCK! Ain't nuthin' like flying over a dairy....very
aromatic and buggy.
I hangar the airplane and it is not being subject to any more environmental
abuse than my car or truck. I see no reason to eliminate either paint just
because it is blessed as "airplane" or not. That's why we are EXPERIMENTAL
aircraft builders...we choose what goes on or in our airplanes. If my
airplane as destined to sit outside, roasting in the sun, (horrors) with
nothing but trainee abuse to look forward to, then I would opt for the
aircraft coating, mainly to save money.
My experience here alone, fwiw.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
Brian Denk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder/elevator bolt installation? |
Ken ,
I've put mine in a couple of time. I took a pair of needle nose plier and,
using a grinding wheel or file, cut a small "V" grove on each side of the
pliers. This holds the bolt nice and tight and only tood a minute or two to
make. I got the pliers from a local garage sale, but you've probably got an
extra pair laying around.
Mike Nellis - RV-6 Wings N699BM (res)
Plainfield, IL
http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Balch" <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 3:11 PM
Subject: RV-List: rudder/elevator bolt installation?
>
> Has anyone got a good tool or tip for installing the empennage control
> surface mounting bolts? I've tried a variety of pliers, vice grips &
> even forceps, but haven't yet found a tool with a strong enough grip
> that'll fit into the very limited available space. What's the trick?
>
> --
> Regards,
> Ken Balch
> Ashland, MA
> RV-8 #81125 N118KB (reserved)
> finish kit arrives next week; lots of fuse work left...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KAKlewin(at)AOL.COM |
Just wondering if anyone can tell me why the fuel pump is shown on the
plans as being in the cabin, and most singles I have flown it is on the
engine side of the firewall. Any specific reason for this? Ive flown in a
few RV's and it seems the fuel pump is in the way a bit by being in the
cabin? Any ideas??
Kurt, OKC, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder/elevator bolt installation? |
Mike:
I know the solution is in one of Tony Bingelis' books. Take a pice of
aluminum .o64. 6inX1/2 or so. Then cut a piece of al from .032 about 1
3/4 in X 1/2 in or so. Cut a notch at the end to fit the bolt into. If
AN3 then drill the appropriate hole for that at the end. put a bend on
that piece so it layes next to the .064 piece but abut 1/8 in away. Put
oneflush rivet in it at the inside edge. You will have a nice holder
for the bolt. slide the bolt head into the slot and install the bolt.
I have a couple of these for AN3 and AN4 bolts. Really great for close
quarters. A picture would be supper but I have no camera right now.
I'll see it it will scan in a few moments and send an image if it works.
Dave Aronson
RV4 N504RV
Mike Nellis wrote:
>
>
> Ken ,
>
> I've put mine in a couple of time. I took a pair of needle nose plier and,
> using a grinding wheel or file, cut a small "V" grove on each side of the
> pliers. This holds the bolt nice and tight and only tood a minute or two to
> make. I got the pliers from a local garage sale, but you've probably got an
> extra pair laying around.
>
> Mike Nellis - RV-6 Wings N699BM (res)
> Plainfield, IL
> http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Balch" <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 3:11 PM
> Subject: RV-List: rudder/elevator bolt installation?
>
> >
> > Has anyone got a good tool or tip for installing the empennage control
> > surface mounting bolts? I've tried a variety of pliers, vice grips &
> > even forceps, but haven't yet found a tool with a strong enough grip
> > that'll fit into the very limited available space. What's the trick?
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Ken Balch
> > Ashland, MA
> > RV-8 #81125 N118KB (reserved)
> > finish kit arrives next week; lots of fuse work left...
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
List: I am trying to determine what fitting to use for the VA-118 brake
lines at the F-6122 Junction on the fire wall.
According to Plans #49 for the single brake system you need a pair
of AN832-4D Union fittings. I have a Dual Brake setup and assume you use the
same Straight Fittings? Long end up?
How about it all you 6A builders who have been there done that.
Tom in Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re(2): RV3-List: Number of Antennae |
Using a 1/8" diameter wire traveling at 200 mph (with a unit balance in
meters and seconds), I obtained a Reynold number of 2 x 10
4.
Using Hoerner's Fluid Dynamic Drag, Figure 12 on page 3-9, for Reynold
numbers between 10
4 and 5 x 10
5, Cd = 1.2.
For Van's airfoil, series 230xx, the standard roughness Cd = .01.
The 22" tall 1/8" thick wire has the same drag as a 230xx series airfoil 22"
tall 15 inches wide and 9 FEET long.
Can anyone else relate to the mental image of a 15 inch thick 9 FOOT long
airfoil on their fuselage, instead of just hiding the "cute little wire" on
the belly?
Jim Ayers
RV-3 N47RV
one external Transponder antenna - 4" tall & 1/16" dia.
= 230xx airfoil 4" tall, 7.5" thick and 4 5/8 feet long.
(Maybe I need to install the external blade antenna.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Paint Black For Cooling |
| From: | "Daniel Lindquist" <vanfan(at)canada.com> |
>They believe convection of the heat
>from the actual surface is more efficient than radiation of the heat
>through paint. No paint!
I would have to agree with this. Paint colors have an effect on what
VISIBLE light rays are reflected and absorbed. However, 99.9% of the energy
that an engine produces is in the IR or Infra-Red spectrum. IR radiation is
not visible to the eye, and because of this it is generally called "black
body radiation."
I am told that flying in a turbocharged twin at night (& high altitude), you
can actually see the exhaust pipes and turbocharger glowing orange. The
metal has become hot enough that it actually starts to produce visible light
rays in addition to the IR radiation. The engines themselves (hopefully)
never will get hot enough to PRODUCE visible light rays. (If they do, the
paint prob'ly wouldn't stick around anyways!)
Therefore, the difference in the heat transferring rate of different colors
should be negligible. If there is a difference, I would suggest it has more
to do with the IR emitting capabilities of the material. Better yet, as
stated above -- "No paint!"
Dan.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Wischmeyer <edwisch(at)aa.net> |
| Subject: | Truck from Seattle to Indianapolis and back |
Listers -
Looks like I'll be taking a truck from here to there and back at the end
of October / early November -- not that I'm looking forward to that much
time on the road, but having just been laid off, I've got the time.
Anyhow, there will probably be room on the truck for other things, in
case anybody needs something moved. Send me an email if you're interested.
Ed Wischmeyer
edwisch(at)alum.mit.edu
--
NOTE: 5% of messages sent to me don't make it, so use a return receipt to
insure delivery. The phone company system drops packets.
- - - - - - - -
Ed Wischmeyer
Web page: http://members.aa.net/~edwisch/resume.html
Email: edwisch(at)alum.mit.edu
name="edwisch.vcf"
filename="edwisch.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Wischmeyer;Ed
tel;fax:425 898-9566
tel;home:425 898-9856
adr:;;;;;;
version:2.1
email;internet:edwisch(at)alum.mit.edu
fn:Ed Wischmeyer
end:vcard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Rudder/elevator bolt resolution |
Thanks to all for the varied and helpful hints on how to get these very
difficult bolts in place. I wound up having success with a set of thin,
offset needle-nose pliers with duct tape around the jaws for extra grip.
I'm considering ordering the Hingemate from Aircraft Spruce (2000-2001
pg. 465), as it appears to be designed to make this very process
easier. It also claims to simplify starting the nuts on once the bolts
are installed. Anyone have any experience with this device?
Also, any experience out there with J-wrenches? I've never heard of
these, but they appear to be useful. Check Aircraft Spruce (2000-2001
pg. 464).
Thanks, again!!
--
Regards,
Ken Balch
Ashland, MA
RV-8 #81125 N118KB (reserved)
assorted endless cockpit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel power jack for hand-helds . . . |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>Another thing about cigar lighters - if you must use them , dont mount them
>horizontally where anything can fall into them. A friend of mine (Europa
>Flyer) was on the way back from Prague (to UK) last year. One of his
>electrical circuits kept blowing (it happened to be the one with all the nav
>equipment - in his case it was the glass cockpit display). In the end he had
>to do without the equipment and fly on the basic instruments.
>
>The cause of the problem - you guessed it - a foreign metallic body in the
>cigar lighter !!!
The interesting thing about this anecdote is the fact that
one kind of failure in the system (shorted power jack for
the cockpit hand-held equipment) precipitated other
failures. In this case, too many devices sharing the
same protected circuit.
Builders in love with acres-o-breakers risk a falling out
when the available panel space and/or budget for breaker
dollars run short. The most conservative philosophy for
system architecture dictates a single protected feeder
for each device in the airplane that needs power from the
system.
Fuse-blocks give you the opportunity to have lots of
spare slots for future growth at first flight. While
it's never wrong to pile up on a single breaker from
a fire-safety perspective, it can be bad news when too
many things go dark at the same time.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: RV3-List: Number of Antennae |
This does lead to some interesting comparisons.
(BTW, I just guessed that the transponder antenna was 4" tall.)
The transponder blade antenna is 3 1/4" tall (measured).
While the 1/16" dia. wire is equal in drag to a 7.5" wide by 4 5/8 foot long
230xx airfoil;
the blade transponder antenna is equal in drag to a 0.93" wide by 6 7/8 INCH
long 230xx airfoil. Or 1/8 of the drag of the 1/16" dia. wire antenna.
I have one COM antenna in the wingtip on my RV-3. So there is no additional
drag from this installation.
( I don't have to visualize a 15" wide by 9 1/4 foot long 230xx airfoil added
onto the airframe for a 1/8" dia. wire antenna. The antenna is already
inside the 6 3/8" wide by 54" long wingtip.)
I have a second COM antenna on top of the vertical stabilizer on my RV-3.
The fairing is 8" taller than standard tip. The drag is equal to a 1.53"
wide by 11 1/3" long 230xx airfoil.
This is about four times the drag of the transponder blade antenna,
or 1/2 the drag of a 1/16" wire transponder antenna.
This is also 27 times LESS DRAG :-) than a 1/8" dia. rod antenna.
Jim Ayers
RV-3 N47RV
transponder blade antenna has just be placed on the hardware installation
list.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Plumbing Questions |
My manuals, plans, etc are all at the airport, so forgive a dumb question:
How do you make the transition from the aluminum pitot line to the nylaflow
tubing that continues the line to the instruments?
Also, how do you clean off excess Fuel lube?
Thanks in advance,
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
Still thawing frozen extremities from the RV Fly-in in Lebanon TN yesterday..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plumbing Questions |
>
>
>My manuals, plans, etc are all at the airport, so forgive a dumb question:
>
>How do you make the transition from the aluminum pitot line to the nylaflow
>tubing that continues the line to the instruments?
>
>Also, how do you clean off excess Fuel lube?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
>
>Still thawing frozen extremities from the RV Fly-in in Lebanon TN
>yesterday..
>
Kyle,
Yeah, I reckon LOTS of folks are thawing out today. Parker makes a brass
bulkhead fitting that goes from a compression nut for metal tubing to a
sleeved type of compression nut for nylon. I used one for this very
purpose. Check your local seal and pipe fitting supply house.
As for removing Fuel lube, maybe lacquer thinner will do the trick. It
cleans off most goop pretty well.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stiffener "Dings" on Skin |
--- pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> Hi Friends,
> When doing the rudder, and with the right elevator at the trailing
> edges, the stifferners are
> leaving a very small ding on the outside of the skin.
One of the first things my Technical Counselor told me on my emp kit
was to taper those stiffeners all the way down to nothing - forget that
1/8 inch end on the plans. That's where you get the dings.
You could shortened them but that would leave some skin unsupported...
at least with the vertical part filed down to a sharp end, you still
have the doubler effect.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Re(2): RV3-List: Number of Antennae |
> The 22" tall 1/8" thick wire has the same drag as a 230xx series airfoil
22"
> tall 15 inches wide and 9 FEET long.
>
Jim: aren't we getting to the point of ridiculous here? Your calculations
suggest that the addition of three antennas to the RV airframe induce as much
drag as 27 feet of wingspan That's equivalent to more than doubling the
original wingspan. The RV wing itself must be a sizeable percent of the form
drag of the airplane, so once again we are being asked to believe that
eighteen or twenty of these antennas would produce an RV incapable of forward
motion under its own power. I think this reductio ad absurdum shows that
something is amiss in the calculations.
One further point: an airfoil fifteen inches thick and 22 inches in chord, no
matter how long, is more a cylinder than an airfoil. I think something is
scrambled somewhere...
Keep trying, but I'm a long way from removing my whip antennas based on the
bizarre numbers I've seen so far in this thread.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A O-320/FP Sensenich
Hop-Along Airfield - 12VA
Clifton Forge, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGray67968(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Stall Warning Device |
Folks,
I'm contemplating the installation of a vane type stall warning device with
audible/visual indicator (RV6). Checking the archives I see that Tim Lewis
has one on his 6 and "seems" to be satisfied. Also, Kevin Horton "was"
thinking about one. To those of you who have installed one: a - are you happy
with it, b - would you do it again, and c - is it necessary (think I know the
answer to "c"). Some folks across the ocean have the same device Tim Lewis
installed for $60 buckaroos which includes shipping.
Thanks in advance.
Rick Gray 6QB (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Plumbing Questions |
KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
>
> My manuals, plans, etc are all at the airport, so forgive a dumb question:
>
> How do you make the transition from the aluminum pitot line to the nylaflow
> tubing that continues the line to the instruments?
>
> Also, how do you clean off excess Fuel lube?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
Your local auto parts emporium will have a selection of clear plastic
hose......one of which will be a perfect fit over the aluminum line.
Guess what, it is also a perfect fit over the nylaflow tubing!
Cut a two-inch long piece of the clear plastic tubing, and use it as a
union between the aluminum and nylon lines. If you ever need to
disconnect the fitting, just cut it loose and "manufacture" another
union.
The purists may scream about having to use various expensive threaded
brass fittings, but the friction fit of the plastic tubing works just
fine, costs only pennies, and is readily available.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6 with tight pitot plumbing)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert P. Busick" <panamared(at)brier.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump... |
On my fuel injection system, I put the fuel pump inside the cockpit for cooling
purposes. To avoid vapor lock you want to keep the fuel as cool as possible.
if you put the pump in the engine compartment, you would want to build a
cooling shroud around it and plump cool inlet air to it.
At least that is my explanation.
Bob Busick
KAKlewin(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> Just wondering if anyone can tell me why the fuel pump is shown on the
> plans as being in the cabin, and most singles I have flown it is on the
> engine side of the firewall. Any specific reason for this? Ive flown in a
> few RV's and it seems the fuel pump is in the way a bit by being in the
> cabin? Any ideas??
>
> Kurt, OKC, OK
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re(3): RV3-List: Number of Antennae (long) |
In a message dated 10/08/2000 6:43:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Sport AV8R
writes:
> > The 22" tall 1/8" thick wire has the same drag as a 230xx series airfoil
> > 22" tall 15 inches wide and 9 FEET long.
> >
>
> Jim: aren't we getting to the point of ridiculous here? Your calculations
> suggest that the addition of three antennas to the RV airframe induce as
> much drag as 27 feet of wingspan (Snip)
>
> Bill Boyd
> RV-6A O-320/FP Sensenich
> Hop-Along Airfield - 12VA
> Clifton Forge, VA
I'm saying that three antenna's are equal to adding a 15" thick wing section
9 1/4 feet long with a chord of 3 x 22", or a 66" chord (5' 6" chord). Or as
you said, an additional 5 1/2 foot wingspan.
You may not like results. I didn't like the results. But I do like the
apples to apples comparison. (antenna wire drag = wing section drag) That's
why I mentioned it.
Show me where the calculations are wrong.
Drag = dynamic pressure times coefficient of drag times cross sectional area.
(Where coefficient of drag = Cd and cross sectional area = S)
Since we are comparing equal drag for both pieces (a wing section and an
antenna wire), we get the following.
(dynamic pressure times Cd times S) wing section = (dynamic pressure times Cd
times S) antenna.
Since we're discussing both items in the same conditions, the dynamic
pressure is equal on both sides of the equation.
We get:
Cd wing section times S wing section = Cd antenna times S antenna
or
S wing section = Cd antenna times S antenna divided by Cd wing section
Given (in previous Email):
Cd antenna = 1.2
Cd wing section = .01
Taking Cd antenna divided by Cd wing section from the equation;
1.2 divided by .01 = 120
S wing section = 120 times S antenna
Picture this any way you want to.
The drag from a 1/8" thick wire 22" long is equal to the drag from a 1/8"
thick wing section 220 feet long. (22 times 120 divided by 12 = 220 feet)
All I'm trying to get across is that a wing section is very efficient, and a
round cross section is not.
By visualizing an efficient object of equivalent drag, we might not be so
willing to add the not so obviously draggy objects to the outside of an
otherwise clean design.
Jim Ayers
RV-3 N47RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert P. Busick" <panamared(at)brier.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Vibration Mounts |
After 10 weeks of waiting I finally received my engine vibration mounts, But,
the mounts that Van now sells does not match the part #s listed in the manual,
the mounts I have are manufactured by VIP. So my question after staring at the
diagram in the plans is how do you mount these things?
Each set of vibration mounts that I have, has a thicker and a thinner part.
Obviously one goes one each side of the engine mount with the engine mounted to
the vibration mount on the front side. Now the confusion, does the thicker mount
go on the backside or front side of the engine mount? According to the diagram
it looks like the thicker vibration mount goes on the backside of the top mount
and the frontside on the bottom mounts. Am I on the right track?
Thanks
Bob Busick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | DCU Fly-in reminder |
A reminder of the fly-in at Decatur, Alabama, October 14th:
DCU, Pryor Regional Airport, Decatur, Alabama
This is an ol' fashioned, laid back, fly-in........no stress, no hassle,
just the chance to kick back and swap lies with other RVers; Co-hosted
by EAA Chapter 941 and the Tennessee Valley RV Builders Group.
Every RV pilot will get free lunch and a .25/gallon fuel discount!
Discount rates ($80 room for $55) available at the Country Inn and
Suites in Decatur, AL, transportation provided to the hotel. Attractions
in the area include the world famous Space and Rocket Center in nearby
Huntsville. Rental cars are available on the field.
CTAF; 123.0 AWOS; 118.375, and by phone (256) 350-4270
Sam Buchanan
P.S. Hope to see several of the listers at SWRFI on October 20-21.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Batteries - Warning to Gel battery owners servers.net> |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>> Robert: Here's one. I have a Hawker, Odyssey Dry Cell battery. Not wet, not
>> Gel and not RG ? The dealer has had one in his pickup truck starting his
>> V-8 for two years now with no problems. Its the same model as mine and the
>> size of the standard 19 Amp. Powersonic. Whats the scoop on this one. Kri
The Odyssey is an RG battery . . . it's assembled with Hawker's
traditional "extra care" that exemplifies their Genesis and other
RG products. Whether or not it's good value remains to be seen in
the marketplace. I've got a 24 a.h. Genesis in my GMC Saffari van
and I've run them for years in other vehicles. It's a nice product
but not magic . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
| Subject: | Piper "blade" style pitot mounting |
Listers,
I'm nearing the point where I can no longer delay installing my Piper
pitot. For those members who are using this style of pitot, how did you
mount it? Did you use a simple skin doubler? Or does this require a more
elaborate mount (like Gretz uses)? Fred Strucklin, how did you do this?
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Oke" <Jim_Oke(at)mbnet.mb.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Plumbing Questions |
Hi Kyle;
Years ago, I faced this exact problem when finishing up my RV-3.
What I did was end the 1/4 alum tube from the pitot tube in an AN 816-4D
which has a 1/4 flare on one side and a 1/8 in male pipe thread on the
other. Aircraft Spruce sold me a 1/8 in female nyloflow tubing fitting that
threaded on (current Wicks p/n looks like 266N-04x02) and continued with via
nyloflow to the inst. panel. A bit of sealant on the threads and not a sign
of a leak since. The fittings are located just inboard of the root rib and
are my quick disconnect (sort of) in case I want to take the wings off.
Jim Oke
Winnipeg, Ccanada
RV-3 C-FIZM
RV-6A C-F??? (still in the fuse jig).
----- Original Message -----
From: <KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 6:55 PM
Subject: RV-List: Plumbing Questions
>
>
> My manuals, plans, etc are all at the airport, so forgive a dumb question:
>
> How do you make the transition from the aluminum pitot line to the
nylaflow
> tubing that continues the line to the instruments?
>
> Also, how do you clean off excess Fuel lube?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
>
> Still thawing frozen extremities from the RV Fly-in in Lebanon TN
yesterday..
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Vibration Mounts |
"Robert P. Busick" wrote:
>
>
> After 10 weeks of waiting I finally received my engine vibration mounts, But,
> the mounts that Van now sells does not match the part #s listed in the manual,
> the mounts I have are manufactured by VIP. So my question after staring at the
> diagram in the plans is how do you mount these things?
>
> Each set of vibration mounts that I have, has a thicker and a thinner part.
> Obviously one goes one each side of the engine mount with the engine mounted
to
> the vibration mount on the front side. Now the confusion, does the thicker mount
> go on the backside or front side of the engine mount? According to the diagram
> it looks like the thicker vibration mount goes on the backside of the top mount
> and the frontside on the bottom mounts. Am I on the right track?
>
> Thanks
>
> Bob Busick
>
Thats right Bob just like to diagram shows.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom Batteries again!! |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>Are there any electronic experts out there??. I want a trickle charger for
>this pack, similar to the one that I use on my Futaba radio for ther Radio
>Control models, does anybody have an idea where I could get one for this
>unit. The output on the pack is 12 volts, 600ma.
Go buy any 12v wall-wart from Radio Shack or other consumer electronics
supplier. Fit with plug to fit your radio. Clip one of the wires in the
connection cord and measure the current flow while plugged into your radio's
charger jack. If over 50-60 milliampers, put resistors in this gap to
lower it to that value. This will give you a duplicate capability for
the 12-14 hour recharge power supplies that have been offered with
ni-cad powered systems for decades.
BTW, you can also have the pack reubilt with Ni-Mh cells at up to
1600 mAh. See:
http://www.batteriesamerica.com/newpage3.htm
Then you need to adjust your wall-wart for 150-175 mA.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AOPA Calender |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
From: John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
Subject: RV-List: AOPA Calendar
RV-List Digest Server
I just received my AOPA Air Safety Foundation calendar for 2001, and I
was curious to see if they would have any photos of
homebuilt aircraft. Sho' 'nuff, March has a photo of Old Blue and
another RV-6 in formation. Woooohooooo!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The red airplane is none other than the RV-6T (N66VA, Nigerian Trainer
prototype). It is the same airplane that now lives life as the RV-6 that
Mike Seager uses for tail wheel transition training. This photo must be
an old one from AOPA shot a few years ago during a photo shoot. It was
likely pulled from there photo archives.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RE Miller <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piper "blade" style pitot mounting |
Charlie
I simply used an .040 doubler and had the mounting
holes also catch both the spar and the rib of the
outside bay. Haven't flown yet but my IA says that
should be OK.
Rob Miller
RV8 Finishing
--- Charlie Kuss wrote:
> Listers,
> I'm nearing the point where I can no longer delay
> installing my Piper
> pitot. For those members who are using this style of
> pitot, how did you
> mount it? Did you use a simple skin doubler? Or does
> this require a more
> elaborate mount (like Gretz uses)? Fred Strucklin,
> how did you do this?
> Charlie Kuss
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Stewart <bruces(at)shoalhaven.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re(3): RV3-List: Number of Antennae (long) |
Hi Jim,
How did you derive .01 for Cd of wing section??
Bruce
>--> RV3-List message posted by: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
>
>In a message dated 10/08/2000 6:43:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Sport AV8R
>writes:
>
>> > The 22" tall 1/8" thick wire has the same drag as a 230xx series airfoil
>> > 22" tall 15 inches wide and 9 FEET long.
>> >
>>
>> Jim: aren't we getting to the point of ridiculous here? Your calculations
>> suggest that the addition of three antennas to the RV airframe induce as
>> much drag as 27 feet of wingspan (Snip)
>>
>> Bill Boyd
>> RV-6A O-320/FP Sensenich
>> Hop-Along Airfield - 12VA
>> Clifton Forge, VA
>
>I'm saying that three antenna's are equal to adding a 15" thick wing section
>9 1/4 feet long with a chord of 3 x 22", or a 66" chord (5' 6" chord). Or as
>you said, an additional 5 1/2 foot wingspan.
>
>You may not like results. I didn't like the results. But I do like the
>apples to apples comparison. (antenna wire drag = wing section drag) That's
>why I mentioned it.
>
>Show me where the calculations are wrong.
>
>Drag = dynamic pressure times coefficient of drag times cross sectional area.
>
>(Where coefficient of drag = Cd and cross sectional area = S)
>
>Since we are comparing equal drag for both pieces (a wing section and an
>antenna wire), we get the following.
>
>(dynamic pressure times Cd times S) wing section = (dynamic pressure times Cd
>times S) antenna.
>
>Since we're discussing both items in the same conditions, the dynamic
>pressure is equal on both sides of the equation.
>
>We get:
>Cd wing section times S wing section = Cd antenna times S antenna
>
>or
>
>S wing section = Cd antenna times S antenna divided by Cd wing section
>
>Given (in previous Email):
>Cd antenna = 1.2
>Cd wing section = .01
>
>Taking Cd antenna divided by Cd wing section from the equation;
>1.2 divided by .01 = 120
>
>S wing section = 120 times S antenna
>
>Picture this any way you want to.
>
>The drag from a 1/8" thick wire 22" long is equal to the drag from a 1/8"
>thick wing section 220 feet long. (22 times 120 divided by 12 = 220 feet)
>
>All I'm trying to get across is that a wing section is very efficient, and a
>round cross section is not.
>By visualizing an efficient object of equivalent drag, we might not be so
>willing to add the not so obviously draggy objects to the outside of an
>otherwise clean design.
>
>Jim Ayers
>RV-3 N47RV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job |
In a message dated 10/7/2000 7:04:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
jkitz(at)greenapple.com writes:
> > however tempting, automotive paint is designed for cars and not for
> > aircraft.
> > because aerospace finishes are specificly designed for aircraft and to
> cope
> > with the hostile environment of the skies(high temperature differentials,
> > high UV to name a few) they will keep their glossy finish longer, there
> are
> > really no secrets here.
> >
Thats strange to here. Sikkens paints are the exact same for auto and
aircraft use and they are the largest provider of paint to the commercial
airlines.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Manton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re(2): RV3-List: Number of Antennae |
OK, now that I'm awake, I figured out how I messed that up. I agree
with Jim's Reynolds number and Cd. That means the 1/8 in antenna
needs about 1.3 engine horsepower to drag it around, and the 3/8 in
one needs about 2.7 hp.
I like the idea of comparing to a wing section, but something is
October 03, 2000 - October 09, 2000
RV-Archive.digest.vol-jk