RV-Archive.digest.vol-jl
October 09, 2000 - October 16, 2000
screwy here though with the size of the wing. Wing section Cds are
referenced to the wing area, not the frontal area. I agree with
Jim's zero lift Cd for the 230xx. That Cd is about 1/120 the Cd of
the antenna. So, we can have a wing area 120 times the antenna
frontal area and we will have the same drag. A 22" tall 1/8" thick
wire has a frontal area of 2.75 sq inches. It would have the same
drag as an airfoil with a wing area of 330 sq inches. For example,
picture an wing section 22 inches long, 15 inch chord, 2 inches thick
(13.5% thick, like our wings).
The wing analogy is only approximate, because we are using section
Cds. The tip effects are going to give us a bunch of drag not
accounted for here.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fitting main LG)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.nbci.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
>Using a 1/8" diameter wire traveling at 200 mph (with a unit balance in
>meters and seconds), I obtained a Reynold number of 2 x 10
4.
>
>Using Hoerner's Fluid Dynamic Drag, Figure 12 on page 3-9, for Reynold
>numbers between 10
4 and 5 x 10
5, Cd = 1.2.
>
>For Van's airfoil, series 230xx, the standard roughness Cd = .01.
>
>The 22" tall 1/8" thick wire has the same drag as a 230xx series airfoil 22"
>tall 15 inches wide and 9 FEET long.
>
>Can anyone else relate to the mental image of a 15 inch thick 9 FOOT long
>airfoil on their fuselage, instead of just hiding the "cute little wire" on
>the belly?
>
>Jim Ayers
>RV-3 N47RV
>one external Transponder antenna - 4" tall & 1/16" dia.
>= 230xx airfoil 4" tall, 7.5" thick and 4 5/8 feet long.
>(Maybe I need to install the external blade antenna.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job |
Listers,
I can not speak to the origins of all polyurethanes. However, DuPont Imron
(the 1st polyurethane) was originally targeted towards 18 wheeled trucks. Many
of the high end tractor manufacturers used this paint because of it's superior
shine and wear properties. I've used Imron many times. It definitely gives off
a
toxic gas when burned. ( I learned this the hard way. That stuff is so tough,
that burning it is one of the easiest ways to remove it)
The Imron clear can not be "buffed out". When buffed, it turns milky white. I
can not speak to how Imron colored paint reacts to buffing. After my experiences
with the clear, I never tried buffing any colors. I understand that some other
brands of polyurethane paints don't have this problem.
For the auto paint fans, DuPont Centari with the urethane additive, is a very
tough paint. It is easy to paint, buff and repair. It's very durable. Most of
the newer EPA friendly auto paints are base coat / clear coat because of their
poor gloss properties. I'm not really wild about these paints. I should point
out that my experiences with these paints is rather dated. In the early and mid
1980s there were many problems with these paints. Go look at any Chevy Corsica
to see what I mean. I suspect that most of these problems have been dealt with
by now, though.
I've also found that the water miscible Deft epoxy primer is not solvent
resistant, as are other Mil-Spec epoxy primers. It is easily removed using
lacquer thinner. All other Mil-Spec epoxy primers I have experience with are
impervious to solvents such as MEK, lacquer thinner, toluene, & gasoline. This
is just my experience.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A
Boca Raton, Fl.
Bill Shook wrote:
>
> > I personally don't understand why people attempt to save, say, $500 with
> > automotive paint while they have already spend at least $30K
>
> Perhaps because, like most things aircraft oriented, they believe the
> 'airplane paint' is more hot air and advertising crap then it is different
> from the automotive paints. Perhaps the difference in price is merely
> because it's 'aircraft approved' and not because there is any chemical
> difference that matters. We get the idea in our heads during the building
> process that anything 'aircraft approved' is simply more expensive..not
> necessarily any better. Like engine monitors, in dash GPS, and
> magnetos......it is not often that the aircraft approved stuff is any better
> than the current state of the art. That combined with the fact that there
> are 12 year old PPG painted planes flying around out there with no ill
> effects and beautiful finish makes one really look at the more expensive
> 'aircraft paint' as another smoke screen designed to separate builders from
> their gas money.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Batteries - Warning to Gel battery owners |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>> RG batteries are quite tolerant of
>> high recharge rates and the few seconds of connection needed
>> to crank an engine are not likely to heat things up even in
>> a relatively tired battery.
>>
>
>That's good to know. I recently jumped mine and can attest it suffered no
>apparent ill effects. At least I think it is an RG Battery. It's a "Gill
>Aero 30 Sealed Battery" which Aircraft Spruce terms a "Gell Cell Battery".
>However, I would infer from Bob's comments that it's really an RG.
>
>I do have one nagging concern about my Gill Aero 30, assuming it's really an
>RG: Aircraft Spruce's catalogue has some language in it (see p. 362 under
>"Sealed immobilized Electrolyte Batteries (Gel Type)") suggesting that the
>charging voltage must be precisely regulated at 13.8 v. +- 0.2 volts to
>avoid shortening the life of these batteries. They recommend a $200
>regulator to accomplish this. My question is, is this true? Does it apply
>only to bona fide gel cells or does it apply also to RG batteries? My
>charging system charges at about 14.5 v. Do I need a $200.00 regulator?
>Finally, if I forget and leave the master on and need to recharge the
>battery in the hanger, do I need a special charger to avoid zonking it? The
>Aircraft Spruce Catalogue implies that this is the case for "gell cell and
>sealed batteries" --see the write up for the "Electronic Power Systems"
>charger, same page.
The conventional wisdom being circulated conforms to
the fondest wishes of the folk who build and sell batteries.
"Treat my product with tender loving care and it will
give you the best performance possible." This always
begs the question, "how far outside the envelope of
TLC will the product still provide satisfactory performance?"
We know that an RG battery (or any other lead-acid battery)
will eventually achieve 100% charge when maintained at 13.8
volts at room temperature. We also know that automotive and
aircraft OEMs have favored 14.2 to 14.4 volts as a level
that speeds up recovery of a battery's state of charge soon
after the engine starts . . . the higher voltage also favors
performance in cold weather.
A couple of years ago, I purchased a used GMC Saffari van
and until September a year ago, had no occasion to check on
the health of the electrical system. When the flooded battery
barfed, I stuck in a used and several times deep-cycled RG
battery I had purchased from B&C to power portable test
equipment in some testing I was doing on the Beechjet. The
battery was just laying around the shop so I decided to
use it up in my van.
After installation, I did a quick check of the charging
voltage and was astounded to find it running 15.1 volts!
Hmmmmm . . . how long had it been that high? Did the
elevated voltage barf the flooded battery? The date
code on the flooded battery was over three years old.
The regulator was built in to a 100A alternator and I
wasn't eager to replace the thing. I decided to leave it
and see what happened.
14 months later, the alternator barfed and I had to replace
it. The new charging voltage is 14.4 volts. The RG battery
is still there and about to enter its second winter
of operation. I also know that when we tested the RG
batteries for B&C's STC, one of the tests the FAA asked
for was to show resistance to thermal runaway. This involves
putting 16.0 volts on the battery and see what happens.
Well . . . not much. The battery soaked up some more charge
but in less than an hour, the current going into the battery
dropped to less than 100 milliamperes. The battery warmed up
less than 1 degree C.
Now, all of the above is anecdotal. The experience I
can share speaks to observations on two batteries. However,
there is a strong suggestion from these observations that
RG batteries are not fragile creatures to be pampered
lest they sigh and die.
The short answer to the question above is, "no" a $200
regulator is not required . . . it may "help" but I'm
beginning to suspect that "helping" means 24 months of
service as opposed to perhaps 22 months of service. The
real bottom line of battery reliability in airplanes is
to KNOW what it's capacity is by either periodic testing
after one year -OR- periodic replacement at cycles which
insure e-bus capacity equal to or greater than fuel
capacity. The real trick here is consdiered preventative
maintenance, not agonizing over how well your regulator
works.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [c-a] Panel power jack for hand-helds . . . |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>>
>> >What size wire and fuse for cigar lighter
>> >type 12v outlet? to be used for portable radio or gps.
>>
>I just had to replace the fuse of the cigar lighter in my Caddillac.
>It's 20A.
>
But don't forget . . . fuses and breakers protect wire.
Wire carries current for the loads you anticipate running
from the circuit. A hand-held radio would be very hard
pressed to draw more than 1 amp from any source. Wiring
your hand held power jack with 22AWG wire fused at 2A
will be quite adequate to the task for which the jack
was installed. That is unless you plan to light cigaretts
from it when not using the radios in which case you'll
need 14AWG and 15A . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Hawkins <lhawkins(at)giant.com> |
"'Mark Nielsen'"@matronics.com
| Subject: | Panel power jack for hand-helds . . . |
When you do this pat very close attention to the continuity. It makes a
difference.
Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Fuse, FArmington,NM
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Nielsen [mailto:Mark.Nielsen@fiedler-lp.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 9:26 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Panel power jack for hand-helds . . .
>
> Just cut the cigar lighter plug off your hand-held's
> power cord and install the new connector.
>
Bob:
I did that for my Garmin 195, but I took it one step further. I also
installed a mating, in-line connector on the cigar lighter side of the
cut wire. This way I can still use the cigar lighter plug for power
if I want to use my GPS in another airplane.
Mark Nielsen
RV-6; 601 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job (was Unbelievable Info/was "N" Numbers) |
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
>
> The newer digital scales can read in grammes. The ACFT is weighed
> when level
> in both planes. If the floor in the hanger is level as well than
> that will
> be the most accurate.
Can any one explain why an airplane is weighed different that any other
thing in the world?
Unless you are trying to find the center of gravity, It would seem it
that it would weight the same if it were level, or hosted by a crane by
its tail and weighted.
I also can't see why the floor has anything to do with it, if the scale
itself is level.
I suppose its assumed that any time you weight a plane that you are
looking to calculate the moment.
Cecil Hatfield
Thousand Oaks California
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel power jack for hand-helds . . . |
Polarity, not "continuity", I'm sure.
In other words, make sure you connect the "+" wire from the charger to the
right pin on the radio connector. I believe that it's marked on the radio next
to the charging jack.
Finn
Larry Hawkins wrote:
>
> When you do this pat very close attention to the continuity. It makes a
> difference.
Why pay for something you could get for free?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Vibration Mounts |
> Now the confusion, does the thicker mount
> go on the backside or front side of the engine mount? According to
> the diagram
> it looks like the thicker vibration mount goes on the backside of the
> top mount
> and the frontside on the bottom mounts. Am I on the right track?
That's it, Bob. The thinner bushing is made of more denser material -
so the weight of the engine presses it against the inside bottom mount
and pulls it against the outside top mount.
Don't be talked into the reverse arrangement which on the face of it
would be better for preventing engine "sag".
Go with the plans!
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fat Electrical Tape |
| From: | Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com |
10/09/2000 09:20:22 AM
Howdy All,
A quick supply question. Can anyone tell me where I can get some wide (
1.5 inch+ ) electrical tape? I need this for finish work around the
windscreen. I have checked at every radio shack, electrical supply, even
calling around to contractor supply stores with no luck. The best I have
been able to come by was 3/4 inch. I have looked through the Aircraft
Spruce catalog and around the suppliers web sites ( Wicks, Avery's,
Cleveland ) with no luck. I'm running out of options here.
Thanks,
- Jim Andrews
RV-8A ( 90% done 90% to go )
O-360 Sensenich 85
N89JA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
"'RV-List Digest Server'"
| Subject: | bolt insertion tool for elevator and rudder hinges |
Has anyone got a good tool or tip for installing the empennage control
surface mounting bolts? I've tried a variety of pliers, vice grips &
even forceps, but haven't yet found a tool with a strong enough grip
that'll fit into the very limited available space. What's the trick?
Ken,
There are many ways to make a bolt insertion tool. The easiest is to take a
heavy wire (coat hanger or heavier) and bend a tight loop 180 degrees around
the bolt shank. The bolt is still removable. Then bend one leg of the loop
over the bolt head and clip off the excess. The bolt is still removable.
Use the other leg for a handle and bend as needed. You should have a device
that will hold the bolt, but that can be slipped off easily after inserting
the bolt. It's easier than it sounds.
Another useful tip, when you're cutting the 2" access holes around the
hinges you can offset the hole about 1/4" outboard. This will allow you
more room to insert the bolt, which is the hardest part that you do over and
over during construction. You can still easily get the nut on even with the
offset hole.
Vince in Indiana
HRII under construction
________________________________________________________________________________
Thread-Index: AcAyAjcS3vwmnxJwT6i3iG+tXdMrMwAABbQg
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Fat Electrical Tape
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
| Subject: | Fat Electrical Tape |
Jim
When I did my canopy fiberglass, I found some better alternatives to
using electrical tape. I used flexible teflon tape 1/2" wide from the
mcmaster-carr catalog, which holds up much better than electrical tape
when sanding. You don't want to go much wider than 3/4" since the wider
the tape the more difficult it is to go around curves. Lay up cheap
tape over the edge that is not being sanded to cover up the canopy.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 53 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com [mailto:Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com]
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 9:20 AM
Subject: RV-List: Fat Electrical Tape
Howdy All,
A quick supply question. Can anyone tell me where I can get some wide (
1.5 inch+ ) electrical tape? I need this for finish work around the
windscreen. I have checked at every radio shack, electrical supply,
even
calling around to contractor supply stores with no luck. The best I
have
been able to come by was 3/4 inch. I have looked through the Aircraft
Spruce catalog and around the suppliers web sites ( Wicks, Avery's,
Cleveland ) with no luck. I'm running out of options here.
Thanks,
- Jim Andrews
RV-8A ( 90% done 90% to go )
O-360 Sensenich 85
N89JA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
"'RV-List Digest Server'"
| Subject: | elevator stiffeners |
One of the first things my Technical Counselor told me on my emp kit
was to taper those stiffeners all the way down to nothing - forget that
1/8 inch end on the plans. That's where you get the dings.
That's worth repeating....taper them all the way to nothing!!! As a veteran
of several empennages I can attest that if you leave the 1/8" on the end you
WILL get dents.
Vince in Indiana
HRII under construction
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | elevator stiffeners |
Thanks to both that answered. Wish I had ask earlier. Hints like this are
very helpful to us new guys.
THANKS AGAIN!
Jack in Des Moines
Will continue tapering stiffeners tonight
Subject: RV-List: elevator stiffeners
One of the first things my Technical Counselor told me on my emp kit
was to taper those stiffeners all the way down to nothing - forget that
1/8 inch end on the plans. That's where you get the dings.
That's worth repeating....taper them all the way to nothing!!! As a veteran
of several empennages I can attest that if you leave the 1/8" on the end you
WILL get dents.
Vince in Indiana
HRII under construction
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Black for Cooling, Was: Engine paint |
Charlie and Tupper England
marcel de ruiter wrote:
>
>
> this discusion is getting very interesting. I'm just back from Shannon,
> Eire, painting a B767. believe or not, but the dark blue on the fin feels
> warmer when you lay your hand on the skin than the white on the fuse.( for
> those interested, alochrome over bare metal, epoxyprimer,DeSoto,
> polyurethane finish, both blue and white, DeSote urethane)
>
> As goes for the engines ; why is a mattituck engine red, a factory Lycoming
> gray and I read on the list about black Lyc 540's ?
Marketing, of course.
> Another thing is, why is the B2 black if you state that black radiates most
> heat?
> Being invisible for radar is a bit of alright, but you don't want the
> nightly sky lit up by a huge IR signature...... confused, you will be....
>
> Marcel
>
B2's & F117's are black to make them hard to see (visually) at night.
Ever remember hearing of a daytime mission for a stealth a/c?
Both have the engine exhausts exiting above the wing surface, with
elaborate diffusers to reduce the IR signature from above.
At least, that's what the press releases said....
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fat Electrical Tape |
Charlie and Tupper England
Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com wrote:
>
>
> Howdy All,
>
> A quick supply question. Can anyone tell me where I can get some wide (
> 1.5 inch+ ) electrical tape? I need this for finish work around the
> windscreen. I have checked at every radio shack, electrical supply, even
> calling around to contractor supply stores with no luck. The best I have
> been able to come by was 3/4 inch. I have looked through the Aircraft
> Spruce catalog and around the suppliers web sites ( Wicks, Avery's,
> Cleveland ) with no luck. I'm running out of options here.
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Jim Andrews
I don't know if it's suitable for your purposes, but industrial
suppliers sell 2" plastic tape that at least 'feels' like PVC electrical
tape. It's usually yellow or yellow & black striped & used as warning
markers on equipment, floors, etc. Also, there's 2" clear packing tape,
but it's going to be a little harder to remove...
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Scuttlebutt |
>
>>
>> Thought I'd dump a rumor on you guys. A friend of
>> mine with a very fast RV6, was
>> talking to another very reputable builder with a
>> very, very fast RV6 and he said
>> Van told him that the 150hp RV9 goes as fast as an
>> RV6 with same HP. The reason
>> being that the trailing edges of the control
>> surfaces are flat like a Cessenas
>> and this greatly reduces drag. Seems Mr. very, Very
>> fast RV6 was on his way to
>> build him a set. This person shall remain nameless,
>> at least until you see flat
>> trailing edges on his control surfaces. My little
>> mind was boggled by this.
>>
>> Does this seem feasable? Uh, Kevin?
>>
>> Please, discuss amongst yourselves.
>>
>> Eric Henson
>> Fuse Crap
>Eric:
>
>If you were at the Golden West Fly-In earlier this
>month, you would have seen the RV-9A depart Friday and
>Saturday evening in formation with my airplane and
>arrive Saturday and Sunday mornings in formation with
>me on its wing. The RV-9A has an O-320 and MT
>constant speed prop. I have an O-320 and Hartzell
>constant speed prop. The takeoff roll with both
>aircraft at full throttle has the RV-9A accelerating
>faster and breaking ground in 2/3s of my ground roll.
>After leveling off at 2,500 and crusing along at about
>150 KIAS, both aircraft put everything forward. The
>RV-9A again out accelerated and pulled almost 3
>aircraft lenghts ahead. As the airspeed settled
>around 166 KIAS, the RV-9A was pulling away from my
>RV-6.
>
>RACE results from my airplane can be found at:
>http://listproc.eracer.org/RACE/mesquite1199.html
>Copperstate Dash 1999 results for my aircraft was
>published in 1999 "Sport Aviation."
>
>
>====
>Gary A. Sobek
>"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
>698+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
>http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
>
>
Well, this is interesting to say the least. The problem is that we
don't really know whether the RV-9A really does have less drag than
Gary's RV-6, or the MT prop is more efficient, or the engine in the
RV-9A is maybe putting out a big more power than the one in Gary's
aircraft. There are engine-to-engine variations, even between
"identical" engines. This is going to be interesting to watch as
RV-9As start flying.
Which gear leg fairings and wheel pants do you have Gary? Van's
latest ones are apparently pretty low drag - could that be a factor?
Do you get red line rpm when you push everything forward? Have you
calibrated your tach lately? How does the number and placement of
external antennae compare to the RV-9A?
For the record - I would be rather surprised if the blunt edge
control surfaces have much to do with the speed of the RV-9A, but
we'll only know for sure once Mr. Fast-guy does the mod.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (misc fuselage stuff)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.nbci.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | vortex generators |
"Builder's Bookstore"
"Builder's Bookstore"
I just ordered a set of vortex generators for my 6A from Micro Aerodynamics. I
did this based on an RV-4 pilots recent flight report of a 10 mph reduction in
stall speed, a nice stall buffet warning about 3 mph before stall, and a
noticeable decrease in takeoff roll. And another great benefit; ...it may keep
the lookie-loos from sitting on my wings at fly-ins. (or at least they will only
sit on them once)
I'm looking forward to trying these things. Anything I can do to make lift at
our high altitudes has got to be worthy.
I'll keep you posted
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
http://buildersbooks.com
eCharts
http://eCharts.cc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Flutter Question |
Redline on Harmon Rocket is something like 275 mph. Did they make changes
to RV surfaces to prevent flutter at higher speeds, or is RV's more
conservative redline just another example of Van's conservatism that has
relulted in the RV's having such a low accident rate. Kindof an academic
question, but interesting none-the-less.
Don Mei
RV-4 N92CT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re:rv6a rudder cables hang up on 602 bulkhead |
> >
> >Has anyone had the rudder cable cleave hang up on the 602 bulkhead?
> And
> what
> >did you do about it.
I am preventing this problem using a six-foot length of plastic stay
cover obtained at a local sailboat shop. For $1.75 I got six feet of
3/8 hard plastic tubing with a slit cut along the side. Got one for
each side.
I was a thumb-numbing process getting this stuff on the rudder cables,
but once on, and pulled up firm on the rudder-pedal attachment, the
sheath goes back into the baggage side covers. I measured it to be
just aft of the F-605s when the rudder pedal was fully forward, then
cut it. When the rudder pedal comes fully aft, the plastic still
doesn't hit the F606 grommet. The cable is bare behind F606.
Since the whole sheath moves with the rudder cable, there is no
junction to hang up in F602.
Smoooooth!
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance-JACKING AIRCRAFT |
Charlie and Tupper England
Charlie and Tupper England
Gary Zilik wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Or you could not _jack_ it up - and lift it instead.
snip> >
>
> food for thought. The engine lift point is for the engine alone. I have
> heard horror stories (none confermed) about the hook ripping out from
> the engine case when lifting plane in this manner.
>
> --
> Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado
> RV-6A N99PZ Flying
> Engine: Aerosport Power O-360-A1A
> Prop: Sensenich 72FM8S9-1-83
If the top cowl is coming off anyway, a sling (nylon tow strap) on the
motor mount tubes at the firewall would work fine. Just don't try to
shorten the vertical distance too much.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PLTDBEEZER(at)AOL.COM |
I was doing some power off stalls yesterday at about 10000 ft density
altitude. Approaching acft stall speed (50 mph) the engine would go below
idle RPM and quit unless the throttle was pushed in some. Is this standard
for wood props? (I have a Props Inc wood prop) It idles OK in the pattern and
on the ground. Also, what makes the Sensenich metal props non-aerobatic?
Thanks
Dave Beizer
RV6A 50 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | New Web Site of Interest to Builders |
Greetings,
You may remember the business called AAMR/AirCore that sold electrical
terminals, tie-wraps, and related aircraft hardware that folded a few
months ago. I learned this morning that it has been replaced by
Terminal Town/AAMR with a new web site: http://www.terminaltown.com.
They offer Mil Spec electrical connectors and a wide variety of related
products including tefzel-shilded wire, cable ties and so forth.
Best wishes,
Jack Abell
Los Angeles
RV-6A N333JA At the airport for final assembly and flight test.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> |
| Subject: | -8A wing center section / rudders trim correction... (kinda long) |
Hi all...
I spent the weekend working on my wing center section and floor rib
assembly... The manual says that I should mount the WD-821 landing gear
weldments to the center section before you install it in the fuse to ensure
a good fit. They fit good out of the box, but you do have to trim the
bottom flange of the F-804F to allow the weldment to sit flat against the
web, and clean up the holes in the weldment for the bolts to fit. During
the test fit, I ran into a problem... The holes called out on dwg 30A where
the 7 bolts (per side) go to hold the weldments on, had rivets in them from
when the center section was built. After talking with another builder
(Thanks Rick!), I determined that I had to drill out the rivets to
accommodate the bolts. There were 14 rivets of those BIG A$$ spar rivets in
all that I drilled out. I checked with Van's this morning on this and they
told me I must have received an -8 center section because the -8A center
section should not have had those rivets installed and drilling them out was
the right thing to do. They also said I could have shipped it back to them,
and they would have drilled them out for me. Those holes are the only
difference between the -8 & -8A center section... Also, -8A builders...
You do not need to install the nutplates on the front of the center section
web, nor do you need to make or install the F-878B attach angles called out
on dwg 18...
You can see pictures of the above here:
http://vondane.com/rv8a/fuse/fuse1.htm
Another tip Rick gave me was to make sure I drill the holes in the center
section that I will need for rudder cables, wing wiring, (and battery cables
if your rear mounting your battery) now, instead of when it is installed in
the fuse. Whether your building an -8 or -8A, you should do this. It will
be much tougher to do with the thing installed in the fuse. I got the
wiring plans from Van's, and it has all the hole callouts on it... If your
building an -8A, use dwg 11, view #1, and note the new location of the
rudder cable holes... The above link has a picture with all the hole
locations & dimensions...
Regarding the rudder trim installation instructions and pictures I posted
lat week, I added another picture, and corrected an error. If you read it
last week, I suggest you go read it again and take a look at the new pic:
http://vondane.com/rv8a/ideas/index.htm
On the subject of engines, I asked Tom about the performance of the O320
powered RV-8 prototype (that is no longer with us) and he said it was great!
He said it had an O320-?D? with H pistons in it. I asked if a 160 HP -8
would perform well, and he said he has a friend with a 150HP O320 with a
wood FP prop that performs very well... FWIW...
Bill VonDane, Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A, N8VD, Fuselage
Planning on 160hp / Senenich AL FP
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piper "blade" style pitot mounting |
| From: | Scott.Fink(at)microchip.com |
10/09/2000 10:55:54 AM
After carefully looking at how Piper mounted it in my Cherokee, I used a
skin doubler.
Scott
Charlie Kuss
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: cc:
owner-rv-list-server@mat Subject: RV-List: Piper
"blade" style pitot mounting
ronics.com
10/08/2000 08:24 PM
Please respond to
rv-list; Please respond
to Charlie Kuss
Listers,
I'm nearing the point where I can no longer delay installing my Piper
pitot. For those members who are using this style of pitot, how did you
mount it? Did you use a simple skin doubler? Or does this require a more
elaborate mount (like Gretz uses)? Fred Strucklin, how did you do this?
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terminaltown(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: New Web Site of Interest to Builders |
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, kolb-list(at)matronics.com,
homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com
Thanks Jack for the nice Ad.
Terminal town is up and running. You can find it at http://terminaltown.com
or click here Terminal Town's
I am still tweaking the pages and the pricing...So look us over and let me
know what you folks think.
I will be running a Special for List Members and will announce it when it's
up.
All the How To Pages are on Terminal Town's site now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Re(2): RV3-List: Number of Antennae |
In a message dated 10/09/2000 5:01:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
khorton(at)cyberus.ca writes:
> A 22" tall 1/8" thick
> wire has a frontal area of 2.75 sq inches. It would have the same
> drag as an airfoil with a wing area of 330 sq inches. For example,
> picture an wing section 22 inches long, 15 inch chord, 2 inches thick
> (13.5% thick, like our wings).
>
> The wing analogy is only approximate, because we are using section
> Cds. The tip effects are going to give us a bunch of drag not
> accounted for here.
>
> Take care,
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (fitting main LG)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://members.nbci.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html
>
Hi Kevin,
You've got it right. I missed the area difference in the equations between
frontal area for the wire and wing area for the wing.
Thanks for finding my mistake.
I did remember the some basic rules of thumb:
A streamline cross section (RV-6A step tube) has 3 to 4 times less drag than
a round cross section.
A airfoil cross section has 8 to 12 times less drag than a round section.
It does help me to visualize the total drag antenna's add to the airframe, if
I replace the antenna wire with an empanage section of equal height.
Jim Ayers
RV-3 N47RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"Charlie and Tupper England"
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance-JACKING AIRCRAFT Charlie and Tupper England |
-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Date: Monday, October 09, 2000 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Weight and Balance-JACKING AIRCRAFT Charlie and Tupper
England
>
>
>Gary Zilik wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Or you could not _jack_ it up - and lift it instead.
>snip> >
>>
>> food for thought. The engine lift point is for the engine alone. I have
>> heard horror stories (none confermed) about the hook ripping out from
>> the engine case when lifting plane in this manner.
>>
>> --
>> Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado
>> RV-6A N99PZ Flying
>> Engine: Aerosport Power O-360-A1A
>> Prop: Sensenich 72FM8S9-1-83
>
>
>If the top cowl is coming off anyway, a sling (nylon tow strap) on the
>motor mount tubes at the firewall would work fine. Just don't try to
>shorten the vertical distance too much.
>
>Charlie
>
I just borrowed a pair of wing jacks and that is really going to make the
weighing my 6A easy! I screwed in a pair of Avery tie-down rings and they
seat nicely into the wing jack dimples. The CG is slightly forward of the
jack points so there is still some weight on the nose wheel. With the mains
in the air, my helper can lift the nose wheel by the prop hub so I can slide
the scale under the nose gear.
Hope to have some weight&balance numbers soon.
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 0.0 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I've picked out some carpeting for the cabin but it is a little thinner than
I'd like. I'd like to put a pad under it to shim it up so I can lay in a
continuous piece instead of cutting it out to fit between the stiffener
angles.
I have a Becki Orndorf circular that recommends using the pad for a sleeping
pad. Today we checked sporting goods stores and the pads were labeled
"Polypropylene -- not fire retardant -- do not use near flame". I flame
tested a piece of polypropylene and I can attest to the warning label. I do
not want it in my plane.
What flame-safe pads have others used?
Dennis Persyk 6A O360A1A/Hartzell 0.0 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator stiffeners |
Would this apply to the -9 also? The skins are different in that they are
riveted at the trailing edge rather than being bent at the trailing edge
like the -6.
What exactly causes the dents? On my rudders skin the opposing stiffeners
nestle inside of each other so the tapered edge one side can only touch the
stiffener on the other side, not the skin. Do the stiffeners just cause the
end of the opposite stiffener to dent the skin by bumping into the opposite
stiffener?
Thanks,
Cliff
RV9A
N782PC (reserved)
Working on Empennage, wing ordered
Erie, CO
>
> One of the first things my Technical Counselor told me on my emp kit
> was to taper those stiffeners all the way down to nothing - forget that
> 1/8 inch end on the plans. That's where you get the dings.
>
> That's worth repeating....taper them all the way to nothing!!! As a
veteran
> of several empennages I can attest that if you leave the 1/8" on the end
you
> WILL get dents.
>
> Vince in Indiana
> HRII under construction
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "<Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com> |
(Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id
for" ;
Mon,
09 Oct 2000 13:12:51.-0400(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: bolt insertion tool for elevator and rudder hinges |
09 Oct 2000 13:12:51.-0400(at)matronics.com
A good insertion tool can be had at your local Wall Mart fishing dept. They have
a big pair of needle nose pliers that are bent at the tip 45 degrees for
removing hooks from lunkers. My access holes are much smaller than per plans and
with a real tight grip I can jam those bolts in all surfaces in no time. I liked
the idea posted earlier about taking a rat tail file and making a concave slot
that would hold the bolt securely. This will make them perfect.
Eric Henson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator stiffeners |
The dents occur because one has to considerably overbend the trailing edge
in order to achieve the desired radius and tangency. The material has a
large amount of springback, and although the stiffeners appear to overlap
and miss the opposing side, during bending they will touch the other side.
Dennis Persyk
-----Original Message-----
From: Cliff Begnaud <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com>
Date: Monday, October 09, 2000 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: elevator stiffeners
>
>
>Would this apply to the -9 also? The skins are different in that they are
>riveted at the trailing edge rather than being bent at the trailing edge
>like the -6.
>What exactly causes the dents? On my rudders skin the opposing stiffeners
>nestle inside of each other so the tapered edge one side can only touch the
>stiffener on the other side, not the skin. Do the stiffeners just cause the
>end of the opposite stiffener to dent the skin by bumping into the opposite
>stiffener?
>
>Thanks,
>Cliff
>RV9A
>N782PC (reserved)
>Working on Empennage, wing ordered
>Erie, CO
>
>>
>> One of the first things my Technical Counselor told me on my emp
kit
>> was to taper those stiffeners all the way down to nothing - forget that
>> 1/8 inch end on the plans. That's where you get the dings.
>>
>> That's worth repeating....taper them all the way to nothing!!! As a
>veteran
>> of several empennages I can attest that if you leave the 1/8" on the end
>you
>> WILL get dents.
>>
>> Vince in Indiana
>> HRII under construction
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator stiffeners |
--- Cliff Begnaud wrote:
>
>
>
> Would this apply to the -9 also? The skins are different in that they
> are
> riveted at the trailing edge rather than being bent at the trailing
> edge
> like the -6.
> What exactly causes the dents? On my rudders skin the opposing
> stiffeners
> nestle inside of each other so the tapered edge one side can only
> touch the
> stiffener on the other side, not the skin. Do the stiffeners just
> cause the
> end of the opposite stiffener to dent the skin by bumping into the
> opposite
> stiffener?
With the -six (and -fours, I guess) the trailing edge is finally formed
with a home-made brake. To get a crisp edge one must over-form (really
hog down on it) and with the 1/8-inch tip, opposing tips put a dent in
the opposite skin.
With the -nine's construction this is probably not a factor.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fat Electrical Tape |
| From: | Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com |
10/09/2000 01:52:57 PM
Charlie,
Thanks for the suggestion. I actually have tape like that but it's so thin
that it leaves little to protect the plexi when your standing. Trust me,
it's really easy to accidentally scratch up the wrong area really fast if
your not careful when working around plexi ( ask me how I know :-).
Electrical tape is several mills thick so it gives you a little fudge
factor against those unwanted accidents.
- Jim
Charlie and Tupper England on 10/09/2000 11:09:47 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com; Please respond to Charlie and
Tupper England
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fat Electrical Tape
Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com wrote:
>
>
> Howdy All,
>
> A quick supply question. Can anyone tell me where I can get some wide (
> 1.5 inch+ ) electrical tape? I need this for finish work around the
> windscreen. I have checked at every radio shack, electrical supply, even
> calling around to contractor supply stores with no luck. The best I have
> been able to come by was 3/4 inch. I have looked through the Aircraft
> Spruce catalog and around the suppliers web sites ( Wicks, Avery's,
> Cleveland ) with no luck. I'm running out of options here.
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Jim Andrews
I don't know if it's suitable for your purposes, but industrial
suppliers sell 2" plastic tape that at least 'feels' like PVC electrical
tape. It's usually yellow or yellow & black striped & used as warning
markers on equipment, floors, etc. Also, there's 2" clear packing tape,
but it's going to be a little harder to remove...
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Flutter Question |
In a message dated 10/09/2000 9:21:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
don_mei(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
> Redline on Harmon Rocket is something like 275 mph. Did they make changes
> to RV surfaces to prevent flutter at higher speeds, or is RV's more
> conservative redline just another example of Van's conservatism that has
> relulted in the RV's having such a low accident rate. Kindof an academic
> question, but interesting none-the-less.
>
> Don Mei
> RV-4 N92CT
Hi Don,
The HR2 wing has 7 inches removed from each tip end of a RV-4 wing. The rib
spacing is tighter because of this(smaller shear panels). And the top center
section wing skin is .032 for the length of the wing.
Elevator and rudder skins are normally .020 thick.
Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | elevator stiffeners |
Hey Guys,
My "dings" did not come from over bending the trailing edge. I made sure
when bending, the opposing stiffeners did not touch the skin. Vince and
Mike said it best. Taper the trailing edge of the stiffener down to nothing
so while flexing the skin to drill rivet etcetera the stiffener is a tad bit
more flexible so it won't "ding" the skin (on its own side). Now that's
about as clear as mud, isn't it?
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dennis Persyk
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: elevator stiffeners
The dents occur because one has to considerably overbend the trailing edge
in order to achieve the desired radius and tangency. The material has a
large amount of springback, and although the stiffeners appear to overlap
and miss the opposing side, during bending they will touch the other side.
Dennis Persyk
-----Original Message-----
From: Cliff Begnaud <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com>
Date: Monday, October 09, 2000 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: elevator stiffeners
>
>
>Would this apply to the -9 also? The skins are different in that they are
>riveted at the trailing edge rather than being bent at the trailing edge
>like the -6.
>What exactly causes the dents? On my rudders skin the opposing stiffeners
>nestle inside of each other so the tapered edge one side can only touch the
>stiffener on the other side, not the skin. Do the stiffeners just cause the
>end of the opposite stiffener to dent the skin by bumping into the opposite
>stiffener?
>
>Thanks,
>Cliff
>RV9A
>N782PC (reserved)
>Working on Empennage, wing ordered
>Erie, CO
>
>>
>> One of the first things my Technical Counselor told me on my emp
kit
>> was to taper those stiffeners all the way down to nothing - forget that
>> 1/8 inch end on the plans. That's where you get the dings.
>>
>> That's worth repeating....taper them all the way to nothing!!! As a
>veteran
>> of several empennages I can attest that if you leave the 1/8" on the end
>you
>> WILL get dents.
>>
>> Vince in Indiana
>> HRII under construction
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larygagnon(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Fat Electrical Tape |
Jim, I'm assuming you want this for trim and not for some electrical device.
I use a 2" wide black tape called blackout on some of my automotive
applications. When building my Kitfox, I put the tape on the inside of the
windscreen around the edges and squeegee it down. Instead of seeing the frame
around the plexi all you see is a black border like you'd find on any newer
car. You can find it at a body shop supply house or someone who does
pinstriping locally. Contact me if you can't find any and I'll send you some
to try.
Larry Gagnon
Kitfox N102LG 147 hrs
RV6 Fuselage N6LG (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/9/2000 2:45:14 PM Central Daylight Time,
nhunger(at)sprint.ca writes:
> Does any one have handy the weight difference between an installed MT
> constant speed prop verses the standard constant speed prop and govener
> combination?
> Which will be lighter? Cost difference?
>
Not official weights, but the 3 bladed Mt versus the 3 bladed harzel for my
F1 rocket the MT was a 1/3 lighter. However the cost was in the hartzels
favor. Think by about 2000 dollars. These numbers don't include the
goverenor as you can you anyone with it
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/9/2000 3:00:40 PM Central Daylight Time,
gtanner(at)bendcable.com writes:
> Don't know about weight difference but the MT prop on the 9 at Vans is
> $8500.i
that would be the prop for the 9. If you went with a MT prop for the 4 6 or
8 you would need the areobatic one which is about 1000 bucks more. Plus MT
requires you to use there spinner. I think that 900 for that.
________________________________________________________________________________
What happened to the good old hartzle for about two thirds the MT price I
know they don't look as sexy but afterall some people say the two blade is
more efficient.
Pat N314EP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> |
| Subject: | -8A wing center section / rudders trim |
correction...(kinda long)
Correction to my earlier post ... You COULD install some nutplates on the
front side of the center section, but they would have to be in a different
location that specified on dwg 18. The landing gear weldment will
completely cover the 2 in the middle if installed according to the plans...
Ask me how I know... :-) I will probably use the weldment itself to attach
the fuel line...
Bill VonDane, Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A, N8VD, Fuselage
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
-----Original Message-----
From: N13eer(at)aol.com [mailto:N13eer(at)aol.com]
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: -8A wing center section / rudders trim
correction...(kinda long)
Also, -8A builders...
You do not need to install the nutplates on the front of the center section
web, nor do you need to make or install the F-878B attach angles called out
on dwg 18...
Bill,
I am building an -8 but I don't see what would be diffrent on the -8A.
Those plate nuts are to hold the fuel line from the right side tank as it
crosses to the selector. Now I wish I would have installed a couple extra
to hold wires going to the stick grip. They are much easer to buck before
you put an airplane around the bulkhead.
Alan Kritzman
-8 wire stuff
Cedar Rapids, IA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Streit <wooody98(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator stiffeners |
Cliff,
It's not a problem on the 9 because the trailing edge skin is not bent
(crimped) as in the others models, but rather consists of a piece of avex
triangle.
Jim Streit
90073
Mike Thompson wrote:
>
> --- Cliff Begnaud wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Would this apply to the -9 also? The skins are different in that they
> > are
> > riveted at the trailing edge rather than being bent at the trailing
> > edge
> > like the -6.
> > What exactly causes the dents? On my rudders skin the opposing
> > stiffeners
> > nestle inside of each other so the tapered edge one side can only
> > touch the
> > stiffener on the other side, not the skin. Do the stiffeners just
> > cause the
> > end of the opposite stiffener to dent the skin by bumping into the
> > opposite
> > stiffener?
>
> With the -six (and -fours, I guess) the trailing edge is finally formed
> with a home-made brake. To get a crisp edge one must over-form (really
> hog down on it) and with the 1/8-inch tip, opposing tips put a dent in
> the opposite skin.
> With the -nine's construction this is probably not a factor.
>
> Mike Thompson
> Austin, TX
> -6 N140RV (Reserved)
> Fuselage
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: rudder/elevator bolt installation? |
I found that by using miniture 6 or 12 point nuts
it is easier to get a 1/4 inch wrench in there.
A little moore tight on the wrench holds the nut
too the wrench
Stewart RV4 COLO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 cockpit sealing & heating |
We cold weather area folks know about canopy
expansion and contraction! When it gets down
in the 30's my canopy shrinks so much in length
that there is a 1/8 in gap at the rear.
Stewart RV4 Colo.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | New Stiffener Question |
Hello again Friends,
For an RV8 Left Elevator, do the stiffeners need to be tapered in front of the
trim tab? It
appears there is enough room to leave them full size.
Thanks once again!
Jack in Des Moines,
RV8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> |
| Subject: | New Stiffener Question |
No need to taper like the other stiffeners. Just taper both ends 15 degrees
(3/8" cut from the end I think).
Are
RV-8
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com
Sent: October 9, 2000 7:21 PM
Subject: RV-List: New Stiffener Question
Hello again Friends,
For an RV8 Left Elevator, do the stiffeners need to be tapered in front of
the trim tab? It
appears there is enough room to leave them full size.
Thanks once again!
Jack in Des Moines,
RV8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nancy Jean Burkholder" <nancyb(at)mninter.net> |
Hello, Folks.
My name is Nancy Burkholder. I've been lurking on this list for about 6
months and decided it was time to introduce myself. I bought an RV-6
empennage kit in November, '99 and an RV-6A quickbuild shortly thereafter.
The quickbuild got delivered in mid-August and now I'm up to my eyeballs
in airplane.
I've recently moved from Burlington, VT to Minneapolis, MN. I'm grateful
for the support from the Minnesota Wing of Van's Airforce. My building
efforts have not been without their setbacks and their advice on how to
proceed has been greatly appreciated. Early in my building inexperience I
dinged one of my horizontal stabilizer skins badly enuf while riveting to
require replacing the skin. Then I cut a bulkhead out of the wing
skin...sigh!
Otherwise the building is coming along nicely. I'm about 60% finished with
the empennage and fuselage aspects.
I'll buy the finish kit soon and plan to generate thrust with an O-360 and
constant speed prop.
I'm grateful for the opportunity to tap into the collective wisdom of this
list and the folks from the Minnesota Wing.
nancy b. "Good people are always so sure they're right."
Barbara Graham's last words
Executed June 5, 1955 at San Quentin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop Questions |
PLTDBEEZER(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> I was doing some power off stalls yesterday at about 10000 ft density
> altitude. Approaching acft stall speed (50 mph) the engine would go below
> idle RPM and quit unless the throttle was pushed in some. Is this standard
> for wood props? (I have a Props Inc wood prop) It idles OK in the pattern and
> on the ground. Also, what makes the Sensenich metal props non-aerobatic?
I don't know the answer to your first question, but I do know someone has missfed
you info on the Sensenich metal props. Go to there web page and you will find
that their props are just fine for aerobatics.
Gary
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave Beizer
> RV6A 50 hrs
>
> _
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Zilik
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop Questions
PLTDBEEZER(at)AOL.COM wrote:
Also, what makes the Sensenich metal props non-aerobatic?
I don't know the answer to your first question, but I do know someone has
missfed
you info on the Sensenich metal props. Go to there web page and you will
find
that their props are just fine for aerobatics.
Gary
The 70CM series propeller was finalized and Type Certified for use on the
Lycoming O-320 series engines,over a year ago; however, we still are asked
if the Do Not Exceed 2600 RPM Placard will be removed. Although we have
tried several times to remedy this placard, in the end, we always lose
performance. This propeller is a performer! With normal use, the placard
will not be a factor. Normally at altitude, the propeller will max out at
2600 full throttle straight and level. The placard is serious. We do not
recommend using the propeller for aerobatics. We know you will exceed 2600
RPM with the nose down!
The above is quoted from Sensenich's site
Greg===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Fat Electrical Tape |
In a message dated 10/9/00 11:15:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com writes:
> Jim
>
> When I did my canopy fiberglass, I found some better alternatives to
> using electrical tape. I used flexible teflon tape 1/2" wide from the
> mcmaster-carr catalog, which holds up much better than electrical tape
> when sanding. You don't want to go much wider than 3/4" since the wider
> the tape the more difficult it is to go around curves. Lay up cheap
> tape over the edge that is not being sanded to cover up the canopy.
>
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 53 hours
I'll second the recommendation to stay away from electrical tape. The
electrical tape I used left adhesive "snot" on my windshield. I've never had
this problem with the blue 3M fine line tape used for paint
masking. That's the product I'd recommend against the plexi.
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
I guess I should have waited until later in my flight testing to perform
this test, but I was at 8500' at 180 mph on my third flight before I
realized that the slider was not latched. It was kind of windy since the
rear of the canopy was trailing about an inch above the fuselage or I
probably would not have noticed it at all!
I slowed down to about 65 and managed to close it by pushing on the
lower corners while holding the stick with my knees (remember, I was at
8400 AGL)
At high speeds there is a LOT of lift on the canopy and that little
plastic block is not designed to handle it-so SLOW DOWN.
The bottom line is that it's an in-flight emergency that can be pretty
easily handled if you have some altitude to play with. If not, LAND!
Yes, I did use my checklist but it was getting hot sitting there...
Now, if only I can remember that silly fuel pump...
Dave, RV-6 180 CS 3hrs at CMA
Thank you VAN! WHAT AN AIRPLANE!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Floor Pad |
I
> "Polypropylene -- not fire retardant -- do not use near flame". I flame
> tested a piece of polypropylene and I can attest to the warning label. I
do
> not want it in my plane.
Cover it with flame proof carpet from an aviation source and enjoy. If your
carpet is on fire,you've got other problems, too, much more urgent.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A O-320/FP Sensenich
Hop-Along Airfield - 12VA
Clifton Forge, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Lexan Wing Inspection Covers Are Not Approved |
The recent discussion on replacing the aluminum wing inspection covers with
Lexan troubled me. This is an area of stress. I didn't think it could be one
without compromising the strength of the wing itself. So I emailed the
factory and got a reply from Scott Risan:
" NOT APPROVED!!!!! the cover on the inspection holes is
structural....lexan won't cut it!
stick with the aluminum covers. scott at van's "
Please do not deviate from the plans here. If you have made Lexan covers
please put them in the scap bin and make some aluminum ones. If you doubt
this information, please email the factory your self at:
support(at)vansaircraft.com
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jody Villa" <jvilla(at)blast.net> |
Just got off the phone today with MT as I plan on ordering a three blade
hydraulic MTV-12B for my 8 with an IO360. I have also spoken to Hartzell
about both their 2 and 3 blade props. The weight on the MT 3 blade hydraulic
is 42lbs. The weight of the Hartzell metal 3 blade is (I'm doing this from
memory as I don't have my notes in front of me) 74 lbs. The Hartzell 2 blade
CS metal is 50lbs. The MT's price is $7930. without the spinner or governor.
The spinner is an additional $970.00. The prop takes 9-12 weeks from time of
order to delivery.
Jody Villa
RV8
----- Original Message -----
From: <CW9371(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: MT vrs CS
>
> In a message dated 10/9/2000 3:00:40 PM Central Daylight Time,
> gtanner(at)bendcable.com writes:
>
>
> > Don't know about weight difference but the MT prop on the 9 at Vans is
> > $8500.i
>
>
> that would be the prop for the 9. If you went with a MT prop for the 4 6
or
> 8 you would need the areobatic one which is about 1000 bucks more. Plus
MT
> requires you to use there spinner. I think that 900 for that.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Floor Pad |
In a message dated 10/9/00 11:16:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<< Today we checked sporting goods stores and the pads were labeled
"Polypropylene -- not fire retardant -- do not use near flame". I flame
tested a piece of polypropylene and I can attest to the warning label. I do
not want it in my plane.
What flame-safe pads have others used? >>
Orchard Supply Hardware (OSH) owned by Sears carries the Rubitex (sp) brand
of nitrogen blown neoprene pads that are 3/8" thick in various colors.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Moore <WP2J(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom Batteries again!! |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
Mr. Nuckolls,
Man, am I glad you are on this RV-List. It's gems like this that makes me happy
to wade
through 60 to 80 e-mail messages each day.
Bob Moore
RV-6 empennage
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
> >Are there any electronic experts out there??. I want a trickle charger for
> >this pack, similar to the one that I use on my Futaba radio for ther Radio
> >Control models, does anybody have an idea where I could get one for this
> >unit. The output on the pack is 12 volts, 600ma.
>
> Go buy any 12v wall-wart from Radio Shack or other consumer electronics
> supplier. Fit with plug to fit your radio. Clip one of the wires in the
> connection cord and measure the current flow while plugged into your radio's
> charger jack. If over 50-60 milliampers, put resistors in this gap to
> lower it to that value. This will give you a duplicate capability for
> the 12-14 hour recharge power supplies that have been offered with
> ni-cad powered systems for decades.
>
> BTW, you can also have the pack reubilt with Ni-Mh cells at up to
> 1600 mAh. See:
>
> http://www.batteriesamerica.com/newpage3.htm
>
> Then you need to adjust your wall-wart for 150-175 mA.
>
> Bob . . .
> --------------------------------------------
> ( Knowing about a thing is different than )
> ( understanding it. One can know a lot )
> ( and still understand nothing. )
> ( C.F. Kettering )
> --------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Lumpkin" <tlump(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Dynafocal Engine Mounts |
I am ready to buy my engine vibration mounts and have noticed that Wicks
has a complete set of dynafocal bushings for $162. Van's price is $272. Is
there a reason for the price difference? Quality? Additional parts I'd
have to buy with the Wicks setup?
Thanks,
Ted Lumpkin
RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump... |
>I appreciate your comments on different kinds of fuel systems, as
>well as what Van's recommend. If you have followed this thread
>recently, you'd noticed that I didn't build my -6. For that reason I
>voiced my opinion with reservation, as I am learning something new
>about my plane each day. Just want to make sure that my
>comments were not meant to be criticisms.
Anh and other listers,
Anh's comments weren't taken that way. I had followed the thread a
little because I had given some advice concerning the fuel system
that was already in place. I don't even remember who it was for.
I don't have a parallel system because I wanted to keep my system
as simple as possible. My fellow RV buddy, Pat Patterson, does.
I'm used to seeing them without the parallel and knew that a series
system is pretty much trouble free. He had owned a couple of
Bonanzas that had the parallel and was used to the parallel system.
So, what prompted my comments? The slosh vs the parallel. To
me, slosh was not a good reason to build a more complicated fuel
system if it doesn't exist in our newer fuel tanks.
If you bought your RV, you could have one old enough that it may
actually have the stuff in the tanks. Let's hope not. Some builders
had bad experiences with that stuff. The quality control for the
installation of the slosh prompted some to have peeling slosh in the
tanks. A bad situation. Van no longer recommends it.
Keep the comments coming, even if you didn't build your RV. We
have differences of opinion on many things in our projects. It's from
those differences that others can decide what's best for them. I was
thankful for those options when I was building mine. I'd take the
options and talk with my favorite IA. From there, I would go with the
best choice for me. Remember, this is supposed to be a learning
experience for all of us.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <douggray(at)ihug.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator stiffeners |
> was to taper those stiffeners all the way down to nothing - forget that
> 1/8 inch end on the plans. That's where you get the dings.
>
> That's worth repeating....taper them all the way to nothing!!! As a veteran
> of several empennages I can attest that if you leave the 1/8" on the end you
> WILL get dents.
Overlap the opposing stiffners so that the web of one touches the flange
(if you can call it that) of the other. That way the little bit of web
at the end of the stiffner will never touch the opposing skin even if it
is pressed down hard. Worked for me, no dents...well at least not from
the stiffners.
Doug Gray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Zercher" <ez(at)sensenich.com> |
>> Also, what makes the Sensenich metal props non-aerobatic?
Actually you are both correct. Due to the 70CM (O-320) propeller's 2600 RPM
placard, we do not recommend using it for aerobatics. However, the 72FM
series propeller (O-360) has been tested and is approved for aerobatic use.
Hope that clears it up.
Ed Zercher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop Questions |
So I'll ask the obvious... Can the 72 FM be pitched for the O-320 and still
be acrobatic?
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Zercher" <ez(at)sensenich.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 7:11 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Prop Questions
>
> >> Also, what makes the Sensenich metal props non-aerobatic?
>
> Actually you are both correct. Due to the 70CM (O-320) propeller's 2600
RPM
> placard, we do not recommend using it for aerobatics. However, the 72FM
> series propeller (O-360) has been tested and is approved for aerobatic
use.
>
> Hope that clears it up.
>
> Ed Zercher
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lexan Wing Inspection Covers Are Not Approved |
"Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
I also have modified aileron bellcrank inspection covers. Mine have a
4-inch diameter, Plexiglas covered hole in the plate. I spoke with Van's (I
believe it was Scott) and they said this was generally not a good idea, but
2-inch diameter view ports were probably acceptable.
Do what you want, I'm just passing along what I heard.
Bryan Jones -8 765BJ
Pearland, Texas
-----Original Message-----
From: Norman Hunger [mailto:nhunger(at)sprint.ca]
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 8:12 PM
Subject: RV-List: Lexan Wing Inspection Covers Are Not Approved
The recent discussion on replacing the aluminum wing inspection covers with
Lexan troubled me. This is an area of stress. I didn't think it could be one
without compromising the strength of the wing itself. So I emailed the
factory and got a reply from Scott Risan:
" NOT APPROVED!!!!! the cover on the inspection holes is
structural....lexan won't cut it!
stick with the aluminum covers. scott at van's "
Please do not deviate from the plans here. If you have made Lexan covers
please put them in the scap bin and make some aluminum ones. If you doubt
this information, please email the factory your self at:
support(at)vansaircraft.com
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
> My name is Nancy Burkholder. I've been lurking on this list for
> about 6 months and decided it was time to introduce myself. I bought
an
> RV-6 empennage kit in November, '99 and an RV-6A quickbuild shortly
> thereafter. The quickbuild got delivered in mid-August and now I'm up
to my
> eyeballs in airplane.
Welcome Nancy,
Cecil Hatfield
Thousand Oaks California
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | buvanni(at)us.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Lord Conical Mounts |
List: I have a 0-320A1A (modified) that will be ready to install
on my RV6A soon. I have searched the archive for the correct
Lord Mounts to use and have come up with the following three parts.
P/N's: J-6230-1
J-6530-1
and J-7401-2
Can anyone out there shed some light on what the differenc is
with these three part numbers?
Thanks..........
BRUCE UVANNI RV6A QB
Ready to make the first cut on the canopy
BUVANNI(at)US.IBM.COM
PHONE: (802) 769-2822
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Judd <sjudd(at)ffd2.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Compressors) |
Tim-
Instead of running a 220V line to my shop to run the compressor I built a
simple 220V extension cord -- bought some wire, stuffed it through some
flexible conduit and put a plug on each end -- that runs from the shop to
the laundry room. Downsides are swapping the dryer/extension cord plugs
(could just put in a 2nd plug) and having conduit snaking across the
kitchen floor, but the total cost was maybe $30 and it took very little
time to build. (Plus, it enhances my cheap bachelor image).
Anyways, it's something to consider.
-Steve
On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Tim Bronson wrote:
>
> persuasion. Am I going to have to wire my garage for 220 ("or 221,
> whatever it takes..."), or are there some 110v models out there that I'm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
"'RV-List Digest Server'"
| Subject: | elevator stiffeners |
Would this apply to the -9 also? The skins are different in that they
are
riveted at the trailing edge rather than being bent at the trailing edge
like the -6.
What exactly causes the dents? On my rudders skin the opposing stiffeners
nestle inside of each other so the tapered edge one side can only touch the
stiffener on the other side, not the skin. Do the stiffeners just cause the
end of the opposite stiffener to dent the skin by bumping into the opposite
stiffener?
>> One of the first things my Technical Counselor told me on my emp
kit
> was to taper those stiffeners all the way down to nothing - forget that
> 1/8 inch end on the plans. That's where you get the dings.
>
> That's worth repeating....taper them all the way to nothing!!! As a
veteran
> of several empennages I can attest that if you leave the 1/8" on the end
you
> WILL get dents.
If you taper the end down to nothing it can't cause any problems.
If the end of the stiffener is too high or not properly overlapping the
opposite stiffener you can have problems. If too high, you may not be able
to bend the trailing edge enough to get the 3/32" radius you need. Or you
may squeeze it so hard that you get a dent anyway. Once you start to close
the trailing edge it's too late to get in there and change anything.
It's safer to just taper it to nothing and keep moving.
I don't know about the RV-9 trailing edge. I wouldn't think you'd have this
problem. I certainly applaud Van's for finally changing the $%
& bent
trailing edge... something I never thought was very good from a building
standpoint. Aerodynamically, who knows?
FWIW, I don't use any sealant, goop, or magic to hold the back edge of the
stiffeners to prevent cracking. No problems so far....
Vince in Indiana
HRII wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM |
Welcome Nancy! See ya in the sky someday!
Kevin Shannon
Washington State
building 9A waiting for fuse kit to materialize at Vans
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Compressors) |
In a message dated 10/10/00 10:15:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sjudd(at)ffd2.com
writes:
> Instead of running a 220V line to my shop to run the compressor I built a
> simple 220V extension cord -- bought some wire, stuffed it through some
> flexible conduit and put a plug on each end -
The only precaution here is that long extension cord runs are not good for
electrical motors, especially high draw ones like compressor motors. I'm not
an electrical expert by any means, but my compressor warns against long
extension cords and recommends longer air hose. (Of course that means you
would need a compressor in the kitchen. Come to think about it that's not a
bad idea. You could eat your breakfast while riveting:)
Bob Moser
Shop Prep is FINALLY DONE and dreamin' of an -8 Tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Judd <sjudd(at)ffd2.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Compressors) |
Hi Bob,
On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 FK27Bob(at)aol.com wrote:
> > Instead of running a 220V line to my shop to run the compressor I built a
> > simple 220V extension cord -- bought some wire, stuffed it through some
> > flexible conduit and put a plug on each end -
>
> The only precaution here is that long extension cord runs are not good for
> electrical motors, especially high draw ones like compressor motors. I'm not
Well, I've heard things like this (my compressor says the same thing).
But the only difference is that, with the extension cord, there is one
extra "joint" in the line, at the dryer plug. Otherwise it's just wire
running through conduit, terminating in a plug -- in one case the wire
runs outside, along the house, in the other it runs along my kitchen
floor. The wire and plug are the same in both cases.
While the extra plug can make a difference, the dryer plug is really quite
stout, and I don't believe it adds any significant resistance to the line.
-Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom Batteries again!! |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
>Mr. Nuckolls,
>
>Man, am I glad you are on this RV-List. It's gems like this that makes me
happy to wade
>through 60 to 80 e-mail messages each day.
Gee . . . only 80? I can tell you how to get that number
up by a whole lot! Seriously tho, I appreciate your undestanding
and support.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Compressors) |
It is the length of the line and the gage of the wire not the plug. But you
are using 220 which cuts the current in half. Probably a 14 gauge will work
for 100 feet at 220 volts. Better check with an electrical handbook to make
sure.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Judd" <sjudd(at)ffd2.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: 220V (was Re: RV-List: Compressors)
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 FK27Bob(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> > > Instead of running a 220V line to my shop to run the compressor I
built a
> > > simple 220V extension cord -- bought some wire, stuffed it through
some
> > > flexible conduit and put a plug on each end -
> >
> > The only precaution here is that long extension cord runs are not good
for
> > electrical motors, especially high draw ones like compressor motors. I'm
not
>
> Well, I've heard things like this (my compressor says the same thing).
> But the only difference is that, with the extension cord, there is one
> extra "joint" in the line, at the dryer plug. Otherwise it's just wire
> running through conduit, terminating in a plug -- in one case the wire
> runs outside, along the house, in the other it runs along my kitchen
> floor. The wire and plug are the same in both cases.
>
> While the extra plug can make a difference, the dryer plug is really quite
> stout, and I don't believe it adds any significant resistance to the line.
>
> -Steve
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Gasket AD fix..... AD 2000-18-53 |
10/10/2000 12:04:48 PM
Clipped from AVWEB news wire.......
AVflash(at)avweb.com (AVweb's AVflash)(at)avweb.com (AVweb's AVflash) on
10/09/2000 01:28:01 AM
Please respond to AVflash(at)avweb.com (AVweb Support)
cc:
Subject: AVflash 6.41a
Lycoming last week came up with an FAA-approved alternative means of
compliance (AMOC) for Emergency Airworthiness Directive (AD) 2000-18-53.
The AD called for regular inspection and replacement of oil-filter
converter plate gaskets on some 3,000 recently manufactured engines.
Now, Lycoming says that the one-time installation of a new part-number
gasket will serve as terminating action for the AD, and the company said
it has sent more than 4,000 new (improved) gaskets to distributors.
NOTE: AVweb's NewsWire <http://avweb.com/n/?41a> includes the
complete text of Lycoming Service Bulletin No. 543A Supplement No.
1, which includes the AMOC.
Copyright (C) 2000, The AVweb Group.
All rights reserved.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terminaltown(at)AOL.COM |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin 195 dissection |
"Van Artsdalen, Scott"
I've never torn one apart but you probably find that everything inside is
attached to a single circuit board, perhaps two. I wouldn't worry about the
nitrogen gas escaping or corrosion or even static electricity (if you use
resonable precautions). The circuit boards most likely have a protective
coating. Modern IC's have decent static discharge protection built in (just
don't walk across the carpet while it's open.) If the unit is still under
warranty you will most likely void it if you open it. Otherwise crack the
case, take a look, see what's there. I know another lister split his case
and sandwiched the instrument panel between the case halves to mount it.
Perhaps he'll chime in and you can ask him if it's working okay.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bowen [mailto:Larry(at)bowenaero.com]
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 5:11 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Garmin 195 dissection
Crazy question:
Am I the only one who has thought of taking their GPS 195
apart? I was
thinking of replacing the DG with the 195 display in my
"standard 6"
instrument layout. Then put the buttons off to the left
side of the panel.
That would look pretty sharp, wouldn't it!? I have never
cracked open the
case on my 195, so I don't really know what it consists of.
Has anyone else
looked inside?
Creatively,
Larry Bowen
RV-8 fuse
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com> |
| Subject: | -8A center section woes |
5.0.3 (Intl)|21 March 2000) at 10/10/2000 12:21:10 PM
Bill,
I got my -8 wing kit secondhand and I wanted an -8A, so I sent it back to
Vans to have the rivets drilled out (no charge other than shipping). It
sounded like a good deal, but if I had to do it over I'd have done it
myself. They drilled out not only the rivets specifed for the -8A but also
an extra one, and didn't bother to put a rivet back in (or am I all mixed
up and there's supposed to be an extra hole on one side of the center
section????My plans don't show it). Then when they shipped it back to me
they put it in a flimsy cardboard box without padding on the ends (instead
of the sturdy wood one that I sent it to them in) so both ends were all
bent up when I got it back. I can attest firsthand that the anodizing
process makes the aluminum more brittle because the anodized surface on
mine is covered with small cracks where it got bent.
Anyway, I ordered a bolt and nut to fill the extra hole...
This isn't meant to be "Vans Bashing" just my experience in this isolated
incident with an otherwise oustanding company. Perhaps it was actually
Phlogistron who did the drilling and shipping?? I don't know. There wasn't
much I could do about it since it was FREE afterall and I can't order a new
center section because it's matched to the spars.
It'll still fly just fine...
--Mark Navratil
RV-8A wings, fuse on order, O-360-A4A overhauling
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
From: Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com>
Subject: RV-List: -8A wing center section / rudders trim correction...
(kinda long)
<< snip >> During the test fit, I ran into a problem... The holes called
out on dwg 30A where
the 7 bolts (per side) go to hold the weldments on, had rivets in them from
when the center section was built. After talking with another builder
(Thanks Rick!), I determined that I had to drill out the rivets to
accommodate the bolts. There were 14 rivets of those BIG A$$ spar rivets
in
all that I drilled out. I checked with Van's this morning on this and they
told me I must have received an -8 center section because the -8A center
section should not have had those rivets installed and drilling them out
was
the right thing to do. They also said I could have shipped it back to
them,
and they would have drilled them out for me. Those holes are the only
difference between the -8 & -8A center section... <<<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terminaltown(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | test Terminal Town |
Sorry Larry Connector City is already taken...What's wrong with Terminal
Town...And have you visited the site yet...It won't kill you...That's a joke
son!
John @ Terminal Town
From: Terminaltown(at)aol.com
Full-name: Terminaltown
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:12:08 EDT
Subject: Re: RV-List: test
Sorry Larry Connector City is already taken...What's wrong with Terminal
Town...And have you visited the site yet...It won't kill you...That's a joke
son!
John @ Terminal Town
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Garmin 195 dissection |
| From: | Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com |
10/10/2000 01:34:19 PM
>I've never torn one apart but you probably find that everything inside is
>attached to a single circuit board, perhaps two. I wouldn't worry about
the
>nitrogen gas escaping or corrosion or even static electricity (if you use
>resonable precautions). The circuit boards most likely have a protective
>coating. Modern IC's have decent static discharge protection built in
(just
>don't walk across the carpet while it's open.) If the unit is still under
Right you are Scott.
I cracked mine open about six months ago while I was working on my panel.
It was the only sure way to get the right pattern for the cut out. I
basically traced the front half on to my panel and then made a bracket to
hold the assembled GPS in place.
See : http://www.homestead.com/RV8A/files/index.html for the finished
product.
No big surprises inside. A processor board attached to a display board via
a mylar film cable. It would be extremely hard to separate the
display/keyboard assemblies. Extending the cable would be problematic as
well. I have done extensive hangar flying :-) of my setup and am quite
happy with the arrangement.
- Jim Andrews
RV-8A ( cowl and more cowl )
O-360 Sensenich 85
N89JA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
Thread-Index: AcAy5Zm6WsegQfyLQfSnDMa0U1ZuXgAAFfsw
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Garmin 195 dissection
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin 195 dissection |
I don't believe that the 195 itself is hermetically sealed with nitrogen
gas; I believe the LCD display portion is, but knowing the insides of my
GPS III Pilot that's mounted in my panel (and soon to be replaced with a
Garmin GNC 300XL) the 195 is very similar; there's plenty of spaces for
nitrogen to escape. The button switches are actually part of the main
circuit board, and so is the LCD; I'm sure if someone wanted to go
through the trouble mounting remote switches, they could if they're
pretty good with a soldering iron.
I have looked at the 195 and it splits in half just like the III, and
have seen it "sandwich" mounted (see Rob Hickman's webpage). So,
permanent mounting in the panel is do-able. You will need longer screws
to accommodate the extra thickness of the panel when reassembling the
unit.
My GPS III Pilot installation in the panel works flawlessly.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 53 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Garmin 195 dissection |
10/10/2000 03:25:57 PM
Any pictures of your GPS III mounted in your pannel ?? Saw the 295 pannel
mount picture from last week....is your mount like that one ??
"Bob Japundza" (at)matronics.com on 10/10/2000
02:36:13 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com; Please respond to "Bob Japundza"
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RE: RV-List: Garmin 195 dissection
I don't believe that the 195 itself is hermetically sealed with nitrogen
gas; I believe the LCD display portion is, but knowing the insides of my
GPS III Pilot that's mounted in my panel (and soon to be replaced with a
Garmin GNC 300XL) the 195 is very similar; there's plenty of spaces for
nitrogen to escape. The button switches are actually part of the main
circuit board, and so is the LCD; I'm sure if someone wanted to go
through the trouble mounting remote switches, they could if they're
pretty good with a soldering iron.
I have looked at the 195 and it splits in half just like the III, and
have seen it "sandwich" mounted (see Rob Hickman's webpage). So,
permanent mounting in the panel is do-able. You will need longer screws
to accommodate the extra thickness of the panel when reassembling the
unit.
My GPS III Pilot installation in the panel works flawlessly.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 53 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
Fellow listers...
I've just finished getting my baggage compartment squared away. The 647's,
648,649's and 650's are all nutplated in!
As I'm setting up the 642's, I'm noticing that there will be a fair stack of
overlaps where the 642's and the 641 sit on top of the 647's and 648.
Have I missed something here? It looks logical to take out two notches at
the forward edge of the 648 which will make them flush with the 642's.
Nothing in the plans, videos, or instructions. I don't think I've caused
this by using nutplates instead of rivets...
Anyone else seen this amazing phenomenon? What did you do about it? I'm
still scratching my head about it - although there may be something ahead
that I haven't read about.
Waiting for suggestions - but leaning toward the notches!
Ralph Capen
RV6AQB N822AR Reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
Hi folks
just started installing my firewall in the jig.
I installed the firewall with the top (as mounted) stiffner level.
Then I checked with a plum line along the center rivets in the vertical
plane, low and behold, the three center rivets are not plum !!
I kinda assumed that with the cnc equipment used, these three rivets
would make a second (vertical) reference to put the firewall in the jig.
Either that ...or...my top horizontal stiffner is not fully
perpendicular to the level reference. like drilled incorrectly.
Any suggestions ??
Thanks
Gert
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
________________________________________________________________________________
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
| From: | Ed Hobenshield <edhob(at)kermode.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Batteries - Warning to Gel battery owners |
>
>
> The conventional wisdom being circulated conforms to
> the fondest wishes of the folk who build and sell batteries.
>
> The real trick here is consdiered preventative
> maintenance, not agonizing over how well your regulator
> works.
>
> Bob . . .
Good one Bob,. Still lurking at your posts. Thanks for the advice past.
Ed Hobenshield
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BSEckstein(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | Re: Compressors) |
If you've got two circuits going into the shop, you can build a simple 'Y'
power cord and tap into the two 110 volt supplies to feed a 220 compressor.
Of course, the circuits must be from opposite sides of your load center.
Also, if you've got GFI outlets, you may need to put a switch in-line or the
GFI could trip.
Brian Eckstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net> |
Well I did it, sooner or later,i know i would do it. Can you de-dimple?????
On the tank skins where it says to countersink the skin to the baffle, I got
in a hurry and dimpled the skin. Can the dimples be flattened out and come
back and countersink?????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
Mark
Don't sweat it. I dimpled my tank skins and my rear baffles. No, I didn't
forget, I just prefer dimpling to countersinking. I did have to grind a "flat"
on the female dimple die to dimple the rear baffle though. Van's recommends
countersinking here because the rivet hole is very close to the radius of the
rear baffle flange. It also makes it easier to install the rear baffle onto the
already riveted skin and ribs. I overcame this by inlisting the help of 2
friends to pull slightly on the tank skins to allow room to insert the dimpled
rear baffle into the assembly.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A wings
Boca Raton, Fl.
>
>
> Well I did it, sooner or later,i know i would do it. Can you de-dimple?????
> On the tank skins where it says to countersink the skin to the baffle, I got
> in a hurry and dimpled the skin. Can the dimples be flattened out and come
> back and countersink?????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net> |
If it's only one hole, it would seem to me to be ok. I have "de dimpled" in
the past using the flat squeezer dies and it flattens them out pretty good.
I can't comment on the strength of the resulting countersunk hole but, if
it's only one, I can't imagine it would be much of a problem.
Mike Nellis - RV-6 Wings N699BM (res)
Plainfield, IL
http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 8:36 PM
Subject: RV-List: De-dimpling
>
> Well I did it, sooner or later,i know i would do it. Can you
de-dimple?????
> On the tank skins where it says to countersink the skin to the baffle, I
got
> in a hurry and dimpled the skin. Can the dimples be flattened out and come
> back and countersink?????
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/10/00 7:25:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mnellis(at)emailusa.net writes:
<< f it's only one hole, it would seem to me to be ok. I have "de dimpled" in
the past using the flat squeezer dies and it flattens them out pretty good.
I can't comment on the strength of the resulting countersunk hole but, if
it's only one, I can't imagine it would be much of a problem.
>>
ANOTHER OPTION---- turn the skin over and grind off the back
side of the dimple...
Fred LaForge RV-4 EAA Tech C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job |
10/10/2000 11:58:07 AM
With the environmental laws being what they are, the cost of air scrubbers
& paperwork to paint the Polyurethane paints that some States require.....,
maybe the paint shop you sited as reccomending acrylic enamial only wanted
to squirt that kind of paint because of the hassle associated and not the
best paint....just a thought
John Kitz (at)matronics.com on 10/07/2000 11:02:50 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com; Please respond to John Kitz
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Weight of Paint Job
marcel de ruiter wrote:
> Use a coating for AIRCRAFT and stay away from automotive
> finishes.
>
> however tempting, automotive paint is designed for cars and not for
> aircraft.
> because aerospace finishes are specificly designed for aircraft and to
cope
> with the hostile environment of the skies(high temperature differentials,
> high UV to name a few) they will keep their glossy finish longer, there
are
> really no secrets here.
>
> finished film thickness between 30 - 60 micron depending on paint type
and
> spec.
>
I am not sure that everyone agrees with this statement. A good friend of
mine just
had his Bonanza repainted at a well known aircraft paint shop at Dayton, Oh
and they
recommended acrylic enamel for it. I painted mine with it 4 years ago, wet
sanded
it, and buffed it and I would put it up against most driveway paint jobs.
Hundreds
of airplanes are flying with it today.
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Are you checking shop heads or the other end? Also, check the vertical
angles to see how vertical they are.
The center rivets on my RV-8 firewall are *almost* exactly plumb...the shop
head of one must have squished a frog's hair off center while setting it.
Larry Bowen
RV-8 fuse
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Hi folks
>
> just started installing my firewall in the jig.
>
> I installed the firewall with the top (as mounted) stiffner level.
> Then I checked with a plum line along the center rivets in the vertical
> plane, low and behold, the three center rivets are not plum !!
>
> I kinda assumed that with the cnc equipment used, these three rivets
> would make a second (vertical) reference to put the firewall in the jig.
>
> Either that ...or...my top horizontal stiffner is not fully
> perpendicular to the level reference. like drilled incorrectly.
>
> Any suggestions ??
>
> Thanks
>
> Gert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <Emrath(at)home.com> |
Mark,
On my -6A I dimpled the baffle, seems stronger that way. I have a dimple die
with a flat side on it, worked fine for me.
Marty in Brentwood, TN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: De-dimpling
>
> If it's only one hole, it would seem to me to be ok. I have "de dimpled"
in
> the past using the flat squeezer dies and it flattens them out pretty
good.
> I can't comment on the strength of the resulting countersunk hole but, if
> it's only one, I can't imagine it would be much of a problem.
>
> Mike Nellis - RV-6 Wings N699BM (res)
> Plainfield, IL
> http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 8:36 PM
> Subject: RV-List: De-dimpling
>
>
> >
> > Well I did it, sooner or later,i know i would do it. Can you
> de-dimple?????
> > On the tank skins where it says to countersink the skin to the baffle, I
> got
> > in a hurry and dimpled the skin. Can the dimples be flattened out and
come
> > back and countersink?????
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net> |
If it's only one hole, it would seem to me to be ok. I have "de dimpled" in
the past using the flat squeezer dies and it flattens them out pretty good.
I can't comment on the strength of the resulting countersunk hole but, if
it's only one, I can't imagine it would be much of a problem.
Mike Nellis - RV-6 Wings N699BM (res)
Plainfield, IL
http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 8:36 PM
Subject: RV-List: De-dimpling
>
> Well I did it, sooner or later,i know i would do it. Can you
de-dimple?????
> On the tank skins where it says to countersink the skin to the baffle, I
got
> in a hurry and dimpled the skin. Can the dimples be flattened out and come
> back and countersink?????
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Sheehan <ctsheehan(at)home.com> |
I too have 'de-dimpled' .032 with flush sets and didn't see any
problems.
It looks like the only reason for countersinking in this case is to make
it easier to get the baffle in place. But you may find that it's not
THAT difficult in the first place, or that it's only tight at the
dimples that are close to the ribs, thus not needing to 'de-dimple' the
entire row, or both sides. In which case you may want to consider only
'de-dimpling' where necessary.
Try it on some scrap first!
However I'm not at the wing yet and thus may not know what I'm talking
about. Any experienced tank builders care to comment on the fitting of
the back baffle? Just how difficult would it be with the skins dimpled?
Chris Sheehan
RV-6 Empennage
Mike Nellis wrote:
>
>
>
> If it's only one hole, it would seem to me to be ok. I have "de dimpled" in
> the past using the flat squeezer dies and it flattens them out pretty good.
> I can't comment on the strength of the resulting countersunk hole but, if
> it's only one, I can't imagine it would be much of a problem.
>
> Mike Nellis - RV-6 Wings N699BM (res)
> Plainfield, IL
> http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 8:36 PM
> Subject: RV-List: De-dimpling
>
> >
> > Well I did it, sooner or later,i know i would do it. Can you
> de-dimple?????
> > On the tank skins where it says to countersink the skin to the baffle, I
> got
> > in a hurry and dimpled the skin. Can the dimples be flattened out and come
> > back and countersink?????
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Mike,
You've been doing some homework. Indeed, the Concept product sheet has an
asterik after DCC when it is listed as an approved topcoat. Then they say it
must be sealed. My local paint story guy, who is pretty technical to start
with, couldn't understand the reason for this and called PPG tech support
right there with me in the room. Their answer is that it works just fine,
but that under certain conditions the yellowish cast of the DX1791 could
leach through and effect the top coat, but it was very rare. They added that
functionally it was a very good combination in every way.
Also, the second reason I went this way, is that I painted a test skins
(read a skin that I botched during construction and had to order another)
with DX1791, then DP50LF on one half. Then I topcoated the whole thing with
DCC. The DP adds considerable orange peel because it has such a texture to
it. After waiting several weeks I went back after both of them with a
screwdriver to test adhesion. Of course this is not scientific, but I could
tell no difference in durability/adhesion. If anything, the side without the
DP was slightly tougher.
Anyway, that's my story. The first white parts showed no evidence of any
color tint at all so I'm a happy camper.
Thanks for your thoughts on the paint scheme, I'm feeling pretty good about
it right now. If I missed anything in researching this please let me know,
otherwise maybe you will find it useful info too.
Regards,
Randy
www.rv-8.com
ps. I'm copying the RV List in the hope others might find this useful as
well, hope you dont' mind.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Mike Nellis
>To: Randy Lervold
>Randy, I read your response to someone on the RV List a few days ago and
it got me to thinking because something didn't sound quite right. I'm using
PPG products also (DP48 for primer) and I've researched the PPG line quite a
bit.
>I plan on using the Concept for the exterior and the reason I did not plan
on using the 1791 primer was because PPG recommends that the 1791 needs to
be sealed or topcoated with another primer prior to covering with Concept.
>You mention on your web site that you were going to be covering the 1791
directly with the Concept and I was curious as to why you went with this
combination.
>I'm certainly not a paint expert but in case you might have missed
something in your PPG research, I thought I'd point out PPG's
recommendation.
>BTW, I think your choice of paint schemes is excellent and the finish on
the empenage parts looks great from what I can see. Good luck.
>Mike Nellis - RV-6 Wings N699BM (res)
>Plainfield, IL
>http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/10/00 8:52:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
ctsheehan(at)home.com writes:
<< Just how difficult would it be with the skins dimpled? >>
Not a big deal. All it takes is at least four hands to pull the skins apart
while another pair set the baffle in place. I actually did it with just two
people but it would have been a lot easier with three.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, working on canopy installation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot badge vendor |
> I just ordered two sets of custom embroidered name tags for flight suit
and
> jacket. The vendor is http://www.nametags4u.com
>
FYI there is a guy who makes RV specific "Van's Air Force" leather velcro
backed patches, with your name/N number or whatever. See them at
http://www.edt.com/homewing/emblem.html. (The photo doesn't do it justice
though.)
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
RV-List message posted by: PASSPAT(at)aol.com
>
> What happened to the good old hartzle for about two thirds the MT price I
> know they don't look as sexy but afterall some people say the two blade is
> more efficient.
Don't look as SEXY...???!!! Woah, them's fightin' words! :-) :-) :-)
Just kidding of course. But honestly thats one thing that's kept me from
even dreaming about switching to an MT -- it'd never look as cool as my
gleaming, polished Hartzell...! (Never mind that taking the paint off voided
the warranty...)
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job (was Unbelievable Info/was "N" Numbers) |
> One of the best paint jobs I have ever seen on any RV is John Fleurant's
> RV-8. I saw it at Van's Homecoming in 1999, it was fresh out of Craig
> Robert's paint shop at the Aurora Airport.
[snip]
> particular I wanted to know how much weight you are talking about for such
> a brilliant, shiny, and wet looking paint job. Without hesitation, Craig
> answered, "20 pounds".
I talked to Craig about the weight of John's paint job and got the
impression that the weighing process was a little suspect. So when I had my
plane in his shop, and JUST before beginning dissassembly, I pulled it up on
the scales and weighed it. Also wrote down a list of everything that was or
wasn't in/on the plane. Did the same after, and also sticked the tanks
before and after to make sure no appreciable fuel evaporation had occurred.
The result was 10 lbs, and I'm confident that's accurate within a pound or
two. I'm pretty happy with that.
> I don't know what paint system or products he uses, but his work speaks
for
> itself.
PPG Concept basecoat/clearcoat.
> Before I tell you the price, you better sit down. $5000, and that's IF
> you help him remove and re-install control surfaces, fairings, etc.
That's also going to depend on how close to "done" your fiberglass work is,
and other factors. I'd say thats the LOWEST you'll get from Craig. He hates
it when people bring in planes with raw cowls and fairings or that only have
minimal f-glass filling/ finishing done. He'll do that work but will charge
more for it. As well as for more complex paint schemes.
But bear in mind you get a FANTASTIC paint job from this guy. He's no "run
em in, run em out" production painter, he's a true artist, and in fact sort
of falls in love with every job. Also takes TIME to do it right, so don't
expect to get it out of there very quickly. If you try to rush him it'll
just make you both mad and won't do any good.
> You can see pictures of that plane at Paul Imhof's website,
www.rvators.com.
And mine at www.edt.com/homewing/rhproject
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R, (~175 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plumbing Questions |
> How do you make the transition from the aluminum pitot line to the
nylaflow
> tubing that continues the line to the instruments?
I bought a bunch of fittings and wound up with about 1lb and 5" of screwy
reducers/unions. Chucked that and used a single piece of rubber fuel hose
pushed over both tubes, and a couple of hose clamps. Asked my DAR about it
and he said that's cool.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (!~175 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net> |
Hi Nancy,
I recently moved my project to the airport for final assembly and flight test
after more than five years of work. It may interest you to know that, after
building an entire horizontal stabilizer, I junked it and started over. It may
also interest you to know that the skin on my vertical stabilizer is the third
one I bought, having damaged the first two. Such is life for many first time
builders. Good luck to you on your project. You can't do much worse at it
than I did on mine in the early days. Even so, I'm looking forward to flying
it in the near future.
Best wishes,
Jack Abell
Los Angeles
RV-6A N333JA At the airport for final assembly and flight test.
Nancy Jean Burkholder wrote:
>
> Hello, Folks.
>
> My name is Nancy Burkholder. I've been lurking on this list for about 6
> months and decided it was time to introduce myself. I bought an RV-6
> empennage kit in November, '99 and an RV-6A quickbuild shortly thereafter.
> The quickbuild got delivered in mid-August and now I'm up to my eyeballs
> in airplane.
>
> I've recently moved from Burlington, VT to Minneapolis, MN. I'm grateful
> for the support from the Minnesota Wing of Van's Airforce. My building
> efforts have not been without their setbacks and their advice on how to
> proceed has been greatly appreciated. Early in my building inexperience I
> dinged one of my horizontal stabilizer skins badly enuf while riveting to
> require replacing the skin. Then I cut a bulkhead out of the wing
> skin...sigh!
> Otherwise the building is coming along nicely. I'm about 60% finished with
> the empennage and fuselage aspects.
>
> I'll buy the finish kit soon and plan to generate thrust with an O-360 and
> constant speed prop.
>
> I'm grateful for the opportunity to tap into the collective wisdom of this
> list and the folks from the Minnesota Wing.
>
> nancy b. "Good people are always so sure they're right."
>
> Barbara Graham's last words
> Executed June 5, 1955 at San Quentin
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airbatix(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Infinity Grips |
for the dual action switches (flap, cooley), you will need a relay circuit
(see paul besing's mail) ... otherwise the pilot could be pushing down flap
while the copilot is pushing up flap...result? blown fuse..
the single action switches can generally be paralleled without a problem...
paul
rv6a/180/cs/dual infinity grips..final assembly (honest)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plumbing Questions |
| From: | "Robert Dickson" <bubba(at)coastalnet.com> |
----------
>> How do you make the transition from the aluminum pitot line to the
> nylaflow
>> tubing that continues the line to the instruments?
>
> I bought a bunch of fittings and wound up with about 1lb and 5" of screwy
> reducers/unions. Chucked that and used a single piece of rubber fuel hose
> pushed over both tubes, and a couple of hose clamps. Asked my DAR about it
> and he said that's cool.
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (!~175 hrs)
> Portland, OR
> http://www.edt.com/homewing
this thread has got me thinking about how I'm going to run the line from my
gretz heated pitot. I've mounted it one bay outboard of the inspection hole
to avoid the tie down, so I've got to go from aluminum (heat resistant) at
the pitot to a plastic "service loop" (whatever that is - extra tube that
somehow won't tie itself into a knot when I remove the pitot, I suspect),
and then back to aluminum for the run up the wing. Or can I just continue
the plastic?
I'm a complete novice at this tube plumbing stuff, so I hope this isn't a
primer/compressor/nose-tailwheel type of question!
Robert Dickson
RV-6A QB
Fayetteville NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Lexan Wing Inspection Covers Are Not Approved |
Makes complete sense, lots of screws around perimeter effectively make that
cover part of the wing. However, the elevator bellcrank inspection cover is
held on with only 2 screws (right next to each other) and a slip tab. Based
on how its attached, it could not be structural. It might make sense to
make this out of lexan. Again, pending Van's approval. Then you could
sight check this item in a preflight. Frankly this item is far more
important than an aleron bellcrank anyway. I could easily land a plane with
one non-funcitional aleron, but have a much harder time landing with no
elevator. (Hmm, rethinkiing the aleron thing. If it broke, no problem, but
if it broke and jammed, jamming the stick. . . .prefer not to think about
it.)
Regards,
Don Mei
(Bought it, didn't build it. So my knowledge pales in comparison to 99%of
you.)
p.s. Just finished my first condition inspection on the plane with the
assistance of the AI at my local airport. Learned a tremendous amount, and
gained an even greater respect for Van and you guys who are building these
things. It just seems beyond me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job (was Unbelievable Info/was "N" Numbers) |
Randall Henderson wrote:
>
> > Before I tell you the price, you better sit down. $5000, and that's IF
> > you help him remove and re-install control surfaces, fairings, etc.
>
> That's also going to depend on how close to "done" your fiberglass work is,
> and other factors. I'd say thats the LOWEST you'll get from Craig. He hates
> it when people bring in planes with raw cowls and fairings or that only have
> minimal f-glass filling/ finishing done. He'll do that work but will charge
> more for it. As well as for more complex paint schemes.
Over the course of several discussions with Craig about painting my -8 sometime
next year, he inquired as to my level of experience/proficiency/comfort with
finishing fiberglass. I replied "None" to all three points and he suggested
that I simply do the actual fitting and otherwise leave the 'glass raw. I can't
say how much he hates doing it, but at least in my case he volunteered to do it
right because the final result is so dependent on the prep work. Suits me fine,
as I have no desire to sand & fill & sand & fill ad infinitum. The prospect of
having to do that sort of work is what turned me off the Berkut. BTW, Craig's
estimate was between $5K & $6K for a simple paint job on my -8 (one main color
plus some trim).
The best bet is to give him a call, discuss your needs and get a specific quote.
--
Regards,
Ken Balch
Ashland, MA
RV-8 #81125 N118KB (reserved)
assorted endless cockpit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plumbing Questions |
Robert,
I just finished up doing the heated pitot plumbing, also placed in next bay
over from inspection cover. I used aluminum tubing all the way, placed a
bulkhead fitting in the inboard rib (to side of rib), then bent the pipe to
go from there to he pitot tube. Takes a bit of effort to fasten it but works
just fine.
Dave Burnham
Finishing up Wings, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
A few weeks ago someone wanted to sell a carburator. If it is still for sale
please contact me at john(at)fureychrysler.com or 1-800-292-3324
Best wishes,
John Furey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | c.moen(at)mindspring.com |
RV-List Digest Server
| Subject: | Reminder: EAA Chapter 186 Flyin |
Just a quick reminder that Chapter 186 will be having its fall flyin in Winchester,
Virginia this Saturday and Sunday. Pancake Breakfest, Static Displays, Flymart,
Spot Landing, Flybys, Aircraft Judging for trophies, FAA presentations,...
you get the picture. Would like to have a good showing of RV's so that we
can do a group flyby in the pattern for all to see.
Plus a great weather forecast!!!
See you there.
Craig
80338 - N184CM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV8DRIVER(at)AOL.COM |
Like a few others, I too dimpled the tank skins and rear baffle on our -8.
The main thing to watch out for, IMHO, is that the baffle is not pulled down
when the skin is being pulled down onto the ribs. If this happens, the match
holes in the skin will locate the holes in the baffle too close to the radius
(probably in it). What I did was to use a thin steel rule between the skin
and the spar to push the baffle back up as far as possible. This left ample
room for the dimple not to interfere with the radius of the baffle. Slipping
the baffle in was not a problem even for one person, at least on the -8. Andy
Johnson, fuselage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Reminder: EAA Chapter 186 Flyin |
In a message dated 10/11/00 9:44:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
c.moen(at)mindspring.com writes:
<< Just a quick reminder that Chapter 186 will be having its fall flyin in
Winchester, Virginia this Saturday and Sunday >>
I am flying into IAD on Friday from California and would like to attend the
fly in. Can you give me some directions (driving) to the Winchester airport.
I'll be staying in the Vienna area Friday night.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, working on canopy installation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net> |
Thats my other problem,Ive got the holes to close to the radius to get the
dies in. Sounds like a damn if you dont and damn if you do situation
----- Original Message -----
From: <RV8DRIVER(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: De-dimpling
>
> Like a few others, I too dimpled the tank skins and rear baffle on our -8.
> The main thing to watch out for, IMHO, is that the baffle is not pulled
down
> when the skin is being pulled down onto the ribs. If this happens, the
match
> holes in the skin will locate the holes in the baffle too close to the
radius
> (probably in it). What I did was to use a thin steel rule between the skin
> and the spar to push the baffle back up as far as possible. This left
ample
> room for the dimple not to interfere with the radius of the baffle.
Slipping
> the baffle in was not a problem even for one person, at least on the -8.
Andy
> Johnson, fuselage.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
"Van Artsdalen, Scott"
Well, I called Van's when I had made the dimples the wrong way on my belly
skin! I asked them if there is anything I could do. They said that it is
acceptable to re-dimple them in the correct direction ONCE! Once only. So
I would assume that flattening one dimple won't hurt anything. Using rivet
squeezers is probably the best way.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Nellis [mailto:mnellis(at)emailusa.net]
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 6:19 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; Mark Phillips
Subject: Re: RV-List: De-dimpling
If it's only one hole, it would seem to me to be ok. I have
"de dimpled" in
the past using the flat squeezer dies and it flattens them
out pretty good.
I can't comment on the strength of the resulting countersunk
hole but, if
it's only one, I can't imagine it would be much of a
problem.
Mike Nellis - RV-6 Wings N699BM (res)
Plainfield, IL
http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 8:36 PM
Subject: RV-List: De-dimpling
>
> Well I did it, sooner or later,i know i would do it. Can
you
de-dimple?????
> On the tank skins where it says to countersink the skin to
the baffle, I
got
> in a hurry and dimpled the skin. Can the dimples be
flattened out and come
> back and countersink?????
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job (was Unbelievable Info/was "N" Numbers) |
"marcel de ruiter"
Craig's
> estimate was between $5K & $6K for a simple paint job
Must be nice to be a millionaire spraypainter, I must consider to move to
the States......
Marcel de Ruiter
ACFT Spraypainter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> |
"marcel de ruiter"
. After waiting several weeks I went back after both of them with a
> screwdriver to test adhesion.
The "proper" way of testing paint adhesion as per boeing or bombardier specs
are as follows:
aluminium testpanel preferably 8"by8", rubbed down with red scothcbrite,
degreased, alodine or etchprimer, epoxyprimer, topcoat.
After T/panel has been painted it may be force cured for 1hr at 71C,
thereafter it must be left undisturbed for 72 hrs, then a patch of cheese
cloth dampned with deionised water is applied and sealed under plastic film
to the painted surface and left for 24 hrs.
After 24hrs the patch is removed, the surface is then scratched in a
parellel patern. 3M masking tape is then applied in an orientation 90
degrees on the scratches and abruptly removed with a forceful pull.
If there's no paint or traces of paint on your tape then the test has passed
succesfully.
Marcel de Ruiter
ACFT painter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 panel planning |
> point me at places for suggestions? Here are the questions:
> 1) I want an IFR panel, so lots of "stuff" has to get into the panel.
> I
> notice that pictures in the RVator show most such panels with an add
> on "sub
> panel" under the panel for such things as switches, etc. Seems very
> constricting to me for leg room, getting in and out, etc. and I would
> as
> soon avoid such a step. Good idea, bad idea?
It's best to try on a -6, but I found that there is plenty of room to
get in and out with a switch sub-panel, and once in the seat, leg room
is not a factor.
For me.
>
> 2)I plan to go with switch/breakers, fairly conventional--good
> idea/bad
> idea?
Visit the Aeroelectric web site of Bob Nuckolls. He may convince you,
as he did me, to use fuses vice breakers (well, I'm keeping one each
for the flap motor, alternator and autopilot). In your case, the use
of a fuse panel (remote) will free up more panel space for IFR goodies.
>
> 3) With an IFR panel, the DG would have to go in the middle on top to
> be
> "standard". This causes something of a conflict with the panel rib
> in that
> location, since the DG is about 6+ inches long. How do folks get
> around that problem?
Those ribs are dependent on the canopy style - flipper or slider. The
slider construction behind the panel leaves more room than does the
flipper.
If your question is regarding the depth between the panel and
sub-panel, the sub-panel gets holes cut in it as necessary.
I have made good use of Panel Planner software in designing mine - some
folks have had less-than-good results.
Good luck!
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
"Gar & Jan Pessel"
| Subject: | Re: RV6 panel planning |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gar & Jan Pessel" <pessel(at)ptialaska.net>
> 1) I want an IFR panel, so lots of "stuff" has to get into the panel.
I don't know if you have already decided on the "lots of stuff". If not,
search the archives for minimal IFR equipment and variations on this
wording. There have been many discussions over the years concerning what
needs to be in the "IFR" panel.
> I notice that pictures in the RVator show most such panels with an add on
"sub
> panel" under the panel for such things as switches, etc. Seems very
> constricting to me for leg room, getting in and out, etc. and I would as
> soon avoid such a step. Good idea, bad idea?
I am going with a subpanel. I haven't decided on the width. It will be in
a Z pattern so it will not be flush with the face of the panel but a bit
recessed. One builder here who took a prize at Oshkosh put breakers on the
armrest.
> 2)I plan to go with switch/breakers, fairly conventional--good idea/bad
> idea?
The best source here is Bob Nuckolls at AeroElectric Connection...
http://www.aeroelectric.com/
> 3) With an IFR panel, the DG would have to go in the middle on top to be
> "standard". This causes something of a conflict with the panel rib in
that
> location, since the DG is about 6+ inches long. How do folks get around
> that problem? I would like to place the switch row at the bottom of the
> panel on the pilot side, ala Van's electrical plan, which forces the
flight
> instruments up towards the top.
I don't know if you are referring to the depth in this location or the
conflict with the support ribs between the panel and sub-panel. If its
depth, you just cut holes in the sub-panel to accommodate. If it is the
support ribs and you are using a TIP-UP canopy, they can be moved as they
are not structural. With the slider they are structural and so you will
have to work around them.
> Any help or places to look would be most appreciated
I know the Panel Planner software http://www.panelplanner.com/ has gotten
bad reviews on this list, I have found it to be very helpful. For the
template I am using, the printout fits my panel exactly and the size of the
instruments is close enough. I am considering using Steve Davis of the
Panel Pilot http://members.aol.com/PANELCUT/ to cut and engrave my panel
and he can use the output as a starting point for the process.
Ross Mickey
6-A 9PT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 panel planning |
"Builder's Bookstore"
> I am having trouble figuring out how to plan the instrument panel. Can anyone
> point me at places for suggestions?
I designed my 6A's panel in Corel Draw. (any computer graphics program would
do.) First I drew out the shape of the panel which Corel let me do in full size
and including where the support ribs are in back. Then I drew a circle at the
actual size for each instrument, or rectangles for the radios, and just moved
them around on the screen until I liked where everything was. When all was done,
I printed them out on three sheets of paper (left side, center, right side),
taped them together and used that as a template on the actual panel.
> sub panel" under the panel for such things as switches, etc. Seems very
> constricting to me for leg room, getting in and out, etc.
I have three such sub panels. All my switches are on the left, the throttle,
mixture, and carb heat in the middle, and fuses on the right. Each is about 2.5"
high. At 6'2", they are not an issue for me in getting in or out and never have
been for a passenger. They are a little bothersome when I need to crawl
underneath the panel for any reason. (don't think you won't be doing that a lot
more often than you care to). If I build another plane (a 4 place RV or maybe a
Rocket if I run out of patience waiting for Van's RV-X) one thing which I will
definitly add is a large access door on the front top skin to be able to easily
access behind the panel.
> 2)I plan to go with switch/breakers, fairly conventional--good idea/bad
> idea?
simple, cheap, and they do the job as well as anything else
> 3) With an IFR panel, the DG would have to go in the middle on top to be
> "standard". This causes something of a conflict with the panel rib in that
> location, since the DG is about 6+ inches long.
There are several areas where i needed to cut holes in the bulkhead that sits in
front of the panel (I forget it's designation) for longer instruments, and the
radios too. Cut what you need to cut. You can always add reinforcements to whats
left if you think you've cut away more than you should.
> How do folks get around
> that problem? I would like to place the switch row at the bottom of the panel
> on the pilot side, ala Van's electrical plan, which forces the flight
> instruments up towards the top.
Thats why those sub-panels are so popular.
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
http://buildersbooks.com
eCharts
http://eCharts.cc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net> |
Larry,
Don't let the Policemen drive you away. Your input would be sorely missed. I
believe most of us figured that the post was on The List because of it's
relevance. Kevan is a frequent and knowledgeable poster and my heart skipped
a beat when I first read the post.
Garry "6" Still Finishing
Larry Pardue wrote:
> Because we get to know the people on this list a little and are concerned
> about them. At least two listers have flown this aircraft. Thankfully,
> Kevin Horton has let us know that at least he was not involved.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8A: firewall |
No, I have not yet checked the vertical angles yet, gotten late
yesterday.. but i am defenitely more than a frog's hair, squished or
otherwise, off. maybe a rhino's nose hair....
Gert
Larry Bowen wrote:
>
>
> Are you checking shop heads or the other end? Also, check the vertical
> angles to see how vertical they are.
>
> The center rivets on my RV-8 firewall are *almost* exactly plumb...the shop
> head of one must have squished a frog's hair off center while setting it.
>
> Larry Bowen
> RV-8 fuse
> Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> Web: http://BowenAero.com
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > Hi folks
> >
> > just started installing my firewall in the jig.
> >
> > I installed the firewall with the top (as mounted) stiffner level.
> > Then I checked with a plum line along the center rivets in the vertical
> > plane, low and behold, the three center rivets are not plum !!
> >
> > I kinda assumed that with the cnc equipment used, these three rivets
> > would make a second (vertical) reference to put the firewall in the jig.
> >
> > Either that ...or...my top horizontal stiffner is not fully
> > perpendicular to the level reference. like drilled incorrectly.
> >
> > Any suggestions ??
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Gert
>
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcbraem(at)home.com |
| Subject: | Re: Blade Activity Factor/Prop Efficiency |
Right On, Randall!!!
One of the most frequent comments when people first see N600SS is "man,
what a cool prop"! Nothing beats polished aluminum blades. And the
corollary to that is that Randall and I get more sex than the rest of you
folks =:0)
But, to compare 2-blade to 3-blade props for efficiency, you must know
the manufacturer's dirty little secret, which they don't like to publish
and you usually have to call or write the engineering department to get
it, is the BLADE ACTIVITY FACTOR. This is most comparable to describing
the aspect ratio of a wing--and you have to multiply the BAF X the
number of prop blades (unless they give you the TOTAL BAF). BAF
increases with blade width and diameter reduction. Prop efficiency tends
to decrease as BAF increases to deliver more power from a given
diameter and should be stated for a specific horsepower (tho, that is
not always provided and then you go with what you got). For example:
BLADE ACTIVITY FACTOR for Hartzell props at 180 hp:
1. C2YK-1BF/F7666A-2 (74" dmtr.) = 105
2. C2YK-1BF/F7666A-4 (72") = 112.
Increased blade area is required to absorb more power much like
increased wing area is helpful to support increased aircraft weight.
Another example, listed by David Thurston (designed the Grumman F6F
Hellcat) showed that at 250 hp a 2-blade 80" prop was most efficient
thru ought the entire performance envelope, followed by a 3-blade 76"
prop, then a 2-blade 76" prop and then a 2-blade 74" prop. He did not
list the the max. rpm or prop tip speed.
Dave Anders (RV-4/Visalia, CA) reported in the RVator that for his plane
with a polished 2-blade prop that a tip speed of 900'/sec and 2925 rpm
is the most efficient--(What is his prop diameter"?) and he's gone over
250 mph with a 200 hp engine.
A general "rule of thumb" states that as prop tip speeds approach
850-900'/sec they start to decrease efficiency and increase noise.
Boyd
RV-S6
>
>
> >
> > What happened to the good old hartzle for about two thirds the MT price I
> > know they don't look as sexy but afterall some people say the two blade is
> > more efficient.
>
> Don't look as SEXY...???!!! Woah, them's fightin' words! :-) :-) :-)
>
> Just kidding of course. But honestly thats one thing that's kept me from
> even dreaming about switching to an MT -- it'd never look as cool as my
> gleaming, polished Hartzell...! (Never mind that taking the paint off voided
> the warranty...)
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs)
> Portland, OR
> http://www.edt.com/homewing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 panel planning |
> > I am having trouble figuring out how to plan the instrument panel. Can
anyone
> > point me at places for suggestions?
I have been using CAD systems for around 15 years, but I found the most
effective method for planning my panel was to make paper cutouts of each
item, showing the item's behind the panel dimensions for clearance purposes.
Then I would sit in the plane and start taping stuff in place. I would make
a layout, think about it for a day or so, show other people it, and then
revise and start the process again. I would go through simulated startups,
preflights, flights, emergencies, etc., in order to convince myself that I
had a reasonable layout. After a couple weeks, I couldn't think of any
changes to make, so THEN I drew it all up on a CAD program and had it laser
cut. BTW, that cost only $135 to get done, and it was money well spent.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A O360, Airflow, CS
may fly in '01
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FYI...(non building info discussion) |
In a message dated 10/11/00 6:02:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
akroguy(at)hotmail.com writes:
> Maybe it's just a New Mexican way of
> thinking, but there is more to this list than just how to assemble an
engine
>
> baffle or what a coat of paint weighs.
I certainly enjoyed flying experiences listers while I was building because
they helped keep me at the task of building. Maybe there should be a flying
RV list that talks about neat flying experiences and Bad. We could talk about
what fuel stops are good and bad, places to eat, neat sites and people to
visit etc. People who are building could lurk on this site and the hardnose
builders could talk among themselves on the building only site.
I know Matt is probably thrilled at another site to maintain.
Bernie Kerr, 6A 50 hours, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of Paint Job (was Unbelievable Info/was "N" Numbers) |
You must remember these painters are subject
too strict EPA laws these days. The required
equipment is expensive too purchase and maintain.
Remember the freon debate and what it did to the
cost of AC service because it cannot be expelled into the
atmosphere?
Stewart RV4 Colo.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
"Gar & Jan Pessel"
| Subject: | Re: RV6 panel planning |
On 11 Oct 2000, at 12:16, Gar & Jan Pessel wrote:
> After a summer of flying air taxi,
I'm so jealous!
>I am back trying to finish our RV6.
> Being on the remote edge of the known universe, Fairbanks, Alaska, I
> am having trouble figuring out how to plan the instrument panel. Can
> anyone point me at places for suggestions? Here are the questions: 1)
> I want an IFR panel, so lots of "stuff" has to get into the panel. I
> notice that pictures in the RVator show most such panels with an add
> on "sub panel" under the panel for such things as switches, etc.
> Seems very constricting to me for leg room, getting in and out, etc.
> and I would as soon avoid such a step. Good idea, bad idea?
I needed the subpanel to accomodate my switches and breakers. I
made sure the stick wouldn't hit the subpanel. Pictures are at
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a . (The "More pictures" link has my
"as flown" panel) I started with a cardboard mockup. The EIS (Grand
Rapids) engine monitor saved a LOT of real estate. All engine
monitoring functions in one small package, great customer support.
> 2)I plan to go with switch/breakers, fairly conventional--good
> idea/bad idea?
In my opinion, good idea. I find it is quite convenient to be able to
control the power to subsystems via the breakers. They are heavier
than fuses. I think it is very important to have breakers/fuses
accessible in flight. Others disagree.
>
> 3) With an IFR panel, the DG would have to go in the middle on top to
> be "standard".
Huh? I think the DG goes BOTTOM center to be standard. That's
what AC 61-27C shows.
>This causes something of a conflict with the panel rib
> in that location, since the DG is about 6+ inches long. How do folks
> get around that problem? I would like to place the switch row at the
> bottom of the panel on the pilot side, ala Van's electrical plan,
> which forces the flight instruments up towards the top.
That's why I used the sub panel.
Tim
******
Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FYI...(non building info discussion) |
Rv660wm(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 10/11/00 6:02:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> akroguy(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
> > Maybe it's just a New Mexican way of
> > thinking, but there is more to this list than just how to assemble an
> engine
> >
> > baffle or what a coat of paint weighs.
>
> I certainly enjoyed flying experiences listers while I was building because
> they helped keep me at the task of building. Maybe there should be a flying
> RV list that talks about neat flying experiences and Bad. We could talk about
> what fuel stops are good and bad, places to eat, neat sites and people to
> visit etc. People who are building could lurk on this site and the hardnose
> builders could talk among themselves on the building only site.
>
> I know Matt is probably thrilled at another site to maintain.
>
> Bernie Kerr, 6A 50 hours, SE Fla
>
Bernie there is nothing wrong with doing that right here. I enjoy
Austins post as much as any here. Or maybe all of us that have
finished our RV's should just fade away.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FYI...(non building info discussion) |
>I certainly enjoyed flying experiences listers while I was building because
>they helped keep me at the task of building. Maybe there should be a flying
>RV list that talks about neat flying experiences and Bad. We could talk about
>what fuel stops are good and bad, places to eat, neat sites and people to
>visit etc. People who are building could lurk on this site and the hardnose
>builders could talk among themselves on the building only site.
What is wrong with doing that here? Here we go
again. Rec.aviation.homebuilt just went through this and a lot of the
longtime regulars went to alt.aviation.fun because of the constant and
relentless netpolice posts. Maybe it is a sign of the times, that people
feel they have the right to criticize other people about the slightest
perceived offense or offtopic post. Yes I know this post is
off-topic. Off with my head!!!
Regards,
Tom (Can't we all just get along?) Velvick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Infinity Grips |
The diagram shown will work ok-untill you push an up and down switch at the
same time, then you've got smoke. The + and - will be shorted together.
Dave
Norman Hunger wrote:
>
> How to wire two Infinity Grips together:
>
> Paul answered:
> > You can wire them together as long as you use relays. You can see how I
> > wired my flap switch (which doesn't spring back to off) at
> >
> > http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/wiring.htm
> >
> > Be sure to click on the wiring diagram link so that you can see how to
> > interface relays into the picture.
> >
>
> Paul, thanks for the link, I had lost it in my last computer service.
> When looking at the diagram at http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/flap.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terminaltown(at)AOL.COM |
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com,
zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Hello Fellow Listers:
As promised a Fuse Block Kit with a really good price and a pretty darn big
selection of sizes. You can find at
http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page11.html or click here Terminal Town's
/Electrical Connector Fuse Block Kits or click the link next to my
signature and follow the link from our home page.
Got questions...The lights are always on and the doors are always open on our
site.
John @ Terminal Town
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Welch" <vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Plumbing Questions |
I put an eight inch piece of aluminum tubing on the Gretz heated
pitot for a heat sink then transitioned to tygon tubing for the rest
of the run. Wicks sells a fitting that has one end to accommodate a
flare on one end and has a hose (tubing) barb on the other.
Vince Welch
RV-8A Wings
Roaming Shores, Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Dickson" <bubba(at)coastalnet.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Plumbing Questions
>
>
> ----------
>
> >> How do you make the transition from the aluminum pitot line to
the
> > nylaflow
> >> tubing that continues the line to the instruments?
> >
> > I bought a bunch of fittings and wound up with about 1lb and 5"
of screwy
> > reducers/unions. Chucked that and used a single piece of rubber
fuel hose
> > pushed over both tubes, and a couple of hose clamps. Asked my DAR
about it
> > and he said that's cool.
> >
> > Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (!~175 hrs)
> > Portland, OR
> > http://www.edt.com/homewing
>
>
> this thread has got me thinking about how I'm going to run the line
from my
> gretz heated pitot. I've mounted it one bay outboard of the
inspection hole
> to avoid the tie down, so I've got to go from aluminum (heat
resistant) at
> the pitot to a plastic "service loop" (whatever that is - extra
tube that
> somehow won't tie itself into a knot when I remove the pitot, I
suspect),
> and then back to aluminum for the run up the wing. Or can I just
continue
> the plastic?
> I'm a complete novice at this tube plumbing stuff, so I hope this
isn't a
> primer/compressor/nose-tailwheel type of question!
>
> Robert Dickson
> RV-6A QB
> Fayetteville NC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Loss of Bombadier pilots |
>And this is relevant to the RV-list how? What is this morbid obsession
about passing news of any aircraft crash?
Finn: You obviously have not been involved in test-flying an aircraft.
There is a brotherhood/sisterhood felt with those that put their lives on
the line to prove an unproven aircraft. If you are a builder, you too, some
day may be taking the same risk. The pilots that were lost in this test
flight were experienced test pilots. You will take your airplane up knowing
very little about testing an airplane in flight. If something this bad can
happen to the experts, it makes those of us that aren't maybe take our job
of test-flying an untested airplane somewhat more seriously. Anything can
go wrong at any time. If these pilots were lost for a reason; part of that
is for us to reflect on our own piloting skills and our future as test
pilots. If you are new to The List, discussion here also involves test
flights and flying afterwards. Try to show a little sensitivity before your
fingers send a post you may regret later. Did your post have anything to do
with building? Stick around; you may learn something here.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: RV6-A-QB Brakes |
Boy I must have asked a tough question as not 1 RV6-A builder has responded.
Maybe I am having a Brain Cramp and should know this one but I did check the
archives. Thanks in advance for any help. (How about Scott from Van's if
you are out there)
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom & Cathy Ervin <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 4:17 PM
Subject: RV6-A-QB Brakes
> List: I am trying to determine what fitting to use for the VA-118 brake
> lines at the F-6122 Junction on the fire wall.
> According to Plans #49 for the single brake system you need a pair
> of AN832-4D Union fittings. I have a Dual Brake setup and assume you use
the
> same Straight Fittings? Long end up?
> How about it all you 6A builders who have been there done that.
> Tom in Ohio
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fw: RV6-A-QB Brakes |
Tom,
I'm building a -6 with dual brakes and all the plumbing for the right brakes
were done, in series, with nylon tubing and their special fittings (not AN).
The only AN fittings were between the left side master cylinders and the
brake lines, and I altered them to insert a parking brake. As I recall,
the -6A differs in that the horizontal angle on the firewall is used to
support the two AN bulkhead fittings that connect the cylinders to the brake
lines running back to the main gear, while the -6 has the bulkhead fittings
penetrate the firewall to get to the main gear. In your case, up or down
really doesn't matter but convention would be to treat it like a bolt with
the head (short side) on top and the nut underneath.
Regards,
Greg Young
RV-6 N6GY Houston (DWH) wiring & systems
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom & Cathy
Ervin
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 10:23 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fw: RV6-A-QB Brakes
Boy I must have asked a tough question as not 1 RV6-A builder has responded.
Maybe I am having a Brain Cramp and should know this one but I did check the
archives. Thanks in advance for any help. (How about Scott from Van's if
you are out there)
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom & Cathy Ervin <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 4:17 PM
Subject: RV6-A-QB Brakes
> List: I am trying to determine what fitting to use for the VA-118 brake
> lines at the F-6122 Junction on the fire wall.
> According to Plans #49 for the single brake system you need a pair
> of AN832-4D Union fittings. I have a Dual Brake setup and assume you use
the
> same Straight Fittings? Long end up?
> How about it all you 6A builders who have been there done that.
> Tom in Ohio
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | federigo(at)pacbell.net |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Quickbuild Video wanted |
I have already received several replies to my request for a QB tape. I am
amazed at the fast response from this list. Thank you all
Federigo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: RV6-A-QB Brakes |
>
>Boy I must have asked a tough question as not 1 RV6-A builder has responded.
>Maybe I am having a Brain Cramp and should know this one but I did check the
>archives. Thanks in advance for any help. (How about Scott from Van's if
>you are out there)
Ok , I will bite.
You can use which ever you want. Depends on how you want to run your alum
tubing. The AN 832-4D is a bulkhead elbow and has a 90degree turn in
it. You can put it in with the pilots side twisted to the left and the
passengers side twisted to the right. If you use the straight fittings,
you would put the AN 833-4D in, run your tubing down from there and put the
90 degree bend in the alum tubing itself. Either way you have to
eventually go to the left and right side of the plane and then back along
the fuselage. I have seen it done either way. By the way, the plans show
the alum tubing going down to the bottom for the passenger side brake and
then going across the firewall to the right. This can cause a conflict
with the battery box. So you will have to plan for that. Some have
crossed the brake line over the top of the battery box before they drop it
to the floor. A good choice might be putting the AN832-4D in for the left
brake and go straight down and use a AN833-4D for the right brake and go
straight across the firewall above the battery before dropping down.
Going to be working in show plane parking at Copperstate Fly-In this thur,
fri, sat. and wearing my rv-list badge. Be nice to say hi to other listers
that go there. Weather is looking nice. Only 75 degrees cool here today.
Regards,
Tom Velvick
Peoria, AZ
N9205L aa1-a interior refurbishment underway
rv-6a installing canopy
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Tom & Cathy Ervin <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
>To:
>Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 4:17 PM
>Subject: RV6-A-QB Brakes
>
>
> > List: I am trying to determine what fitting to use for the VA-118 brake
> > lines at the F-6122 Junction on the fire wall.
> > According to Plans #49 for the single brake system you need a pair
> > of AN832-4D Union fittings. I have a Dual Brake setup and assume you use
>the
> > same Straight Fittings? Long end up?
> > How about it all you 6A builders who have been there done that.
> > Tom in Ohio
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-A Brakes |
In a message dated 10/11/00 8:17:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
tcervin(at)valkyrie.net writes:
<< According to Plans #49 for the single brake system you need a pair
of AN832-4D Union fittings. I have a Dual Brake setup and assume you use
the same Straight Fittings? Long end up? How about it all you 6A builders
who have been there done that. >>
That's a way it can be done, although some of us have chosen to put a parking
brake valve in this area in lieu of the union fitting. I have a Cleveland
dual valve.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse Block Kits |
----- Original Message -----
From: <Terminaltown(at)AOL.COM>
; ;
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 6:27 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fuse Block Kits
>
> Hello Fellow Listers:
> As promised a Fuse Block Kit with a really good price and a pretty darn
big
> selection of sizes. You can find at
> http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page11.html or click here HREF="http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page11.html">Terminal Town's
> /Electrical Connector Fuse Block Kits or click the link next to my
> signature and follow the link from our home page.
>
> Got questions...The lights are always on and the doors are always open on
our
> site.
>
> John @ Terminal Town
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | meketa <acgm(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Infinity Grips |
Hello Yall,
No smoke. If properly wired with two relays for one function you can
have as many switches as you want. If two switches conflict with one
another you will have two powers or two grounds depending how it is
wired. The flap\trim motor will just stop.
George Meketa
Dave Bristol wrote:
>
>
> The diagram shown will work ok-untill you push an up and down switch at the
> same time, then you've got smoke. The + and - will be shorted together.
>
> Dave
>
> Norman Hunger wrote:
>
> >
> > How to wire two Infinity Grips together:
> >
> > Paul answered:
> > > You can wire them together as long as you use relays. You can see how I
> > > wired my flap switch (which doesn't spring back to off) at
> > >
> > > http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/wiring.htm
> > >
> > > Be sure to click on the wiring diagram link so that you can see how to
> > > interface relays into the picture.
> > >
> >
> > Paul, thanks for the link, I had lost it in my last computer service.
> > When looking at the diagram at http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/flap.htm
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | meketa <acgm(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Infinity Grips |
Hello Yall,
I just wrote that there will be no smoke. I am wrong. I looked at the
diagram on Pauls site again (after sending my last message) and it does
appear that there will be a direct short if opposing switches are used.
As I said, if propery wired there is no problem with a short. The same
relays can be used, but must be wired differently. Also, of the three
wires on the bottom only the grounds come from the switches and the
positive will go to the fuse box\breaker.
George Meketa
RV-8
Dave Bristol wrote:
>
>
> The diagram shown will work ok-untill you push an up and down switch at the
> same time, then you've got smoke. The + and - will be shorted together.
>
> Dave
>
> Norman Hunger wrote:
>
> >
> > How to wire two Infinity Grips together:
> >
> > Paul answered:
> > > You can wire them together as long as you use relays. You can see how I
> > > wired my flap switch (which doesn't spring back to off) at
> > >
> > > http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/wiring.htm
> > >
> > > Be sure to click on the wiring diagram link so that you can see how to
> > > interface relays into the picture.
> > >
> >
> > Paul, thanks for the link, I had lost it in my last computer service.
> > When looking at the diagram at http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/flap.htm
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nancy Jean Burkholder" <nancyb(at)mninter.net> |
I apologize for not responding to email welcoming to the list. On Tuesday I
lost about 60 emails when I logged into my ISP from the web. I got to read
several welcomes and they were encouraging that my mistakes so far are part
and parcel of the building process.
Onward!
nancy b. "Good people are always so sure they're right."
Barbara Graham's last words
Executed June 5, 1955 at San Quentin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Loss of Bombadier pilots |
MIKE GREAT ANSWER
REGARDS TOM
Thomas M. Whelan
Whelan Farms Airport
Post Office Box 426
249 Hard Hill Road North
Bethlehem, CT 06751
PH 203-266-5300
FAX 203-266-5140
e-mail wfact01(at)aol.com
EAA Chapter 1097, President
RV-8 IO-540 LYC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> |
| Subject: | FW: EAA Copperstate Regional Fly-In - Important Location Info. |
Good Afternoon EAA Member,
It has recently come to our attention that some accidental misinformation
concerning the location for the EAA Copperstate Regional Fly-In has been
released. The correct information concerning the Fly-In is listed below:
EAA Copperstate Regional Fly-In
October 12th - 15th
Location: Williams Gateway Airport, Mesa, Arizona
For more detailed information concerning Arrival Procedures, Airshow
Performers, Forums, Lodging and more, go to their website:
http://www.copperstate.org/
Make plans to attend. You'll have a great time!
________________________________________________________________________________
Thread-Topic: hartzell prop polishing
Thread-Index: AcA0WtjehC70TOaqTki7ET9uKxjdSg=
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
| Subject: | hartzell prop polishing |
OK guys, you've injected a brain-fart into my head....
I've got my prop at the prop shop right now, and I asked how much it
would cost to have the blades polished. The answer wasn't what I wanted
to hear ($350).
So, I'm thinking about having them send it back to me with just the
back-side painted, which won't cost me anything. Or should I paint the
backside myself after polishing? What is the best polishing process for
these props if I were to do it myself? Did any of you guys paint the
shank areas under the spinner so you don't have to remove it to clean up
inevitable oxidation there? I will have a friend dynamically balance
the prop after I'm finished, so balance shouldn't be an issue.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 53 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Ailerons destroyed |
Listers:
Last week I was delt a slight reversal to my ongoing RV4 project. The
hanger door of my rented county hanger came down, off of it,s tracks,
and destroyed my left aileron. I had the wings stored, leading edge
down, on a rolling gurney. The right aileron I had removed a few weeks
prior to remove the attachment brackets to paint or to have powder
coated (they were getting some oxidation). The door, 40ft X 18ft came
off it's track and hit the aileron at mid point, completely screwing
it. I will need to order all the components except possibly the
galvanized pipe at the leading edge. I will probably be able to use the
attachment brackets. Has anyone redone one aileron? Would anyone know
how much the parts would cost? I am trying to fill out a claim form for
the county and I just thought someone on the list might be able to give
me an idea of what the components might cost. My buddy who was closing
the door when it came unglued lost one prop blade and spinner on his
KitFox. Had the wings not been there to stop the falling door, Sean
would have been history! Thanks for any replies.
Dave Aronson
RV4 N504RV
FWF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 18 Amp Powersonic |
ear.navy.mil>
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> I just experienced a battery failure with my new 18 Amp Powersonic.
>Yesterday, I stopped by the airport and flipped on the "master" to find
>almost total darkness on everything. The battery had a grand total of 5 VDC
>indicating voltage (no, I did not leave my master on). I got out the
>battery charger and set it to 12VDC @ 15 AMPS for about 30 minutes or so
>then switched it to 12VDC @ 2 AMPS for several hours. At that time, I
>showed 12.2 VDC static on the EIS. An hour later, I showed 12 VDC static.
>I've been told that I toasted the battery when
>I first put the charger at 15 AMPS. Also, I should "NEVER" select more than
>2 AMPS at the charger. The battery already had a problem so, charging
>wasn't the main cause (that was the first time I've ever put a charger on
>the battery. My Key West charging system is putting out 14.2 VDC normally.
I'm not sure this is a valid deduction. By-in-large, vent-regulated,
sealed lead-acid, recombinant-gas batteries are quite tolerant of
high rate recharge.
Consider that "charging" reverses a chemical reaction by pushing electrons
into as system that was discharged by pulling electrons out. Starting
and engine can take hundreds of amps of current flow (albeit for seconds)
that causes a whole lot of molecules to change state as they give up
their available electrons. The battery is not a perfect device . . . it
has some internal resistance that adds to external resistances in the
system (like wire, contactors, bolted joints, etc) to reduce the amount
of energy available to crank the engine.
The VERY low internal resistance of RG batteries is what makes them
so powerful for their size. This same internal resistance has an
effect on recharging too . . . some of the energy that might otherwise
be used to trip some molecules to their charged state will warm the
battery up internally . . . resistors do one and one thing only with
energy that moves through them . . . warm up.
The admonition "never select more that 2 amps at the charger" argues
with how things work in the airplane (or any other vehicle). As soon
as the engine starts, the bus voltage goes to whatever the regulator is
set for . . . current flowing into the battery's chemistry is whatever
it is going to be at that bus voltage. If the battery is only partially
discharged due to normal cranking, the current goes up pretty high because
the battery's internal resistance is still quite low and it will readily
accept charging. If the battery is flat from a total discharge, connecting
it to a constant voltage like a running alternator may not produce much
inital charge . . . the battery's internal resistance is much higher
when it's completely discharge.
The internal resistance can do only one thing with the energy you're
trying to stuff back into the battery . . . get warm. This
is a transient condition . . As the battery begins to charge,
the resistance drops which improves on the energy conversion
efficiency. Internal heating during initial phases of charging
a totally flat battery can be detrimental to the cells in some
cases: Very small batteries (camcorder, cellphone, etc) may have
some initial charging limits due to their inherent higher internal
resistances and low mass. Batteries used to crank engines are pretty
hard to
warm up and much more tolerant of increased losses during rapid
recharge.
Consider the case where an engine has been hard to start and you've
used up most of the battery's capacity trying to get it going. When
you finally do get it started, the bus jumps to 14.2 (or wherever the
regulator is set) and recharging of the battery will begin . . . limited
only by internal resistance of the battery and the output rating of
your alternator . . . sometimes this current is well over 20 amps
even for a small battery.
The concern about battery chargers is how well their voltage is
regulated while a totally discharged battery is getting its chemistry
awake and ready to go to work. Unless the charger mentioned soared
really up there . . . like over 15-16 volts during initial phases
of recharge, I think it unlikely that the recharge scenario described
toasted the battery . . . the way to check is to put a voltmeter
on the battery and watch it for the first few minutes of rechaged.
Depending on voltage regulation built into the charger it MAY
go pretty high initially (like over 15 volts) but it should come
down in ten minutes or so as the battery beings stirring back to
life.
I think most RG batteries roll belly-up because they loose some of
the water from a cell. Remember, these batteries have very little
moisture in them . . . the fiberglas separators are only 80-90%
saturated when the battery is new. If the factory was having a bad-
battery-day and didn't get the cells wet enough, the battery may
be pretty fragile. Also, the cell might be compromised and liquid
may have been expelled causing pre-mature failure. The battery
in this story wasn't run down by leaving a load on it . . . it was
DOA for a routine start up. This suggests the battery had already
departed to where all good batteries go when they die . . . this
makes charger behavior irrelevant to the story.
It would be interesting to do a diagnosis on how this battery
failed. If you're not going to turn it back in for recycling
and/or warranty claim, I'd like to have it to disect.
As an interesting aside to this discussion, check out Bolder
TMF batteries and some of the things coming over the hill
at: http://www.boldertmf.com/news/news_details.asp?ID=25
These are VERY tiny cells with VERY low internal resistances.
If there was ever a seal lead-acid battery that might favor
being pampered, this has to be a good candidate. Yet they
are finding their way into some pretty heavy-duty applications.
They are not going to be beneficiaries of smart charging
systems. They'll get stuck on a constant voltage bus and the
recharge current will be what it will be . . .
I have seen a few battery sites caution about rapid recharge
of RG batteries . . . Hawker (Genesis, Oddysey, Cyclon battery
guys) doesn't caution the system designer to pamper these batteries
with itty-bitty chargers. In fact, there's a statement in
the engineering manual specifically allowing the battery to
be recharged at whatever rate it will accept on a constant
voltage bus. I think the cautions come from dealers and
distributors that don't understand their products (like
calling them "gel cells") . . . and may be looking for
ways to mitigate their warranty hassles . . . there's nothing
WRONG with soft recharging but it's not necessary either.
When in doubt . . . go to the engieering data for the brand
of battery you're working with and see what the manufacturer
says. Dealers are among the most unreliable sources of good
info on batteries.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Infinity Grips |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
>The diagram shown will work ok-untill you push an up and down switch at the
>same time, then you've got smoke. The + and - will be shorted together.
>
>Dave
A wiring diagram that avoids faults due to conflicting
commands from dual controls can be downloaded from
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/flaps.pdf
This diagram uses some pretty "heavy" relays but they
are inexpensive. Mount with their own bases. Have recessed
fast-on terminals and will work with any electric flap
or trim motor up through 20A.
The limit switches are optional depending on your particular
airplane. If pilot and copilot enter conflicting commands with
this circuit, the flaps simply stop moving.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> |
| Subject: | FW: EAA Follow up to House Bill 4205 Member/Chapter Alert |
EAA is finally in a position to provide an update on the e-mail action alert
we sent to all of you on September 1, 2000.
The issue was wording in the H.R. Bill 4205 that would of required the
owners of restored, or those currently restoring, historic military aircraft
to render them unflyable. EAA asked all of you to write, fax, or e-mail
your congressional representatives to either eliminate to provision from the
bill or to re-word it so it would not be detrimental to all of us who enjoy
these historic aircraft.
Today, Senator Inhofe's office released the congressional committee report
on H.R. 4205, and EAA is proud to congratulate all of you on your efforts.
The critical section (361) has been deleted from the bill, so the fear is
gone.
Section 362, dealing with the annual report to congress of public sales of
military equipment, remains and has been renumbered as Section 381. The
annual report to congress has always been a requirement, so EAA does not
feel this section is detrimental to the preservation movement of rare,
historic military aircraft. Section 381 can be seen below.
EAA would like to express a special thank you to Senator Inhofe and his
staff for their work on this issue. Senator Inhofe and EAA have been
working to correct this piece of legislation since June. Between his
efforts and your letters to your local congressional representatives, we
were able to change a major congressional bill for the betterment of all who
love aviation so dearly. Thank you Senator Inhofe.
EAA greatly appreciates your efforts in this matter. By working as a team,
we accomplished our goal in preserving this important segment of our
aviation heritage.
EAA was the lead aviation organization fighting this issue. As an EAA
member you were directly responsible for successfully fighting this proposed
anti-aviation legistative bill. Thank you all for your efforts.
Randy Hansen
EAA Government and Industry Relations
920-426-6522
Fax: 920-426-6560
800-564-6322, ext. 6522
SEC. 381. ANNUAL REPORT ON PUBLIC SALE OF CERTAIN
MILITARY EQUIPMENT IDENTIFIED ON UNITED STATES
MUNITIONS LIST.
(a) ANNUAL REPORT REQUIRED- Chapter 153 of title 10, United
States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new
section:
`Sec. 2582. Military equipment identified on United States munitions
list: annual report of public sales
`(a) REPORT REQUIRED- The Secretary of Defense shall prepare an
annual report identifying each public sale conducted by a military
department or Defense Agency of military items that are--
`(1) identified on the United States Munitions List
maintained under section 121.1 of title 22, Code of Federal
Regulations; and
`(2) assigned a demilitarization code of `B' or its
equivalent.
`(b) ELEMENTS OF REPORT- (1) A report under this section shall
cover all public sales described in subsection (a) that were conducted
during the preceding fiscal year.
`(2) The report shall specify the following for each sale:
`(A) The date of the sale.
`(B) The military department or Defense Agency conducting
the sale.
`(C) The manner in which the sale was conducted.
`(D) The military items described in subsection (a) that
were sold or offered for sale.
`(E) The purchaser of each item.
`(F) The stated end-use of each item sold.
`(c) SUBMISSION OF REPORT- Not later than March 31 of each year,
the Secretary of Defense shall submit to the Committee on Armed
Services of the House of Representatives and the Committee on Armed
Services of the Senate the report required by this section for the
preceding fiscal year.'.
(b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT- The table of sections at the beginning of
such chapter is amended by adding at the end the following new item:
`2582. Military equipment identified on United States
munitions list: annual report of public sales.'.
Randy Hansen
EAA Government and Industry Relations
920-426-6522
Fax: 920-426-6560
800-564-6322, ext. 6522
Randy Hansen
EAA Government and Industry Relations
920-426-6522
Fax: 920-426-6560
800-564-6322, ext. 6522
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Flame Block Interior Pieces |
For those of you putting together interior pieces and are concerned about
fire retardant issues, there is a product called Flame Block from ACS. P/N
09-05760 $21.95 page 284. If you just must have that piece of foam that
isn't fire retardant, you can spray it with this stuff before installation.
It comes in a 32 oz spray bottle good for 150 square feet. You can put it on
all of your fabrics, carpets, and foam items.
I wonder if the people selling ready made interiors know about this stuff. I
sure would want my foam treated before it gets covered. Oh, I forgot, Oregon
Aero seat foam doesn't burn. No worries.
I have been shopping for interior fabric lately. I have visited two shops
and they both carry automobile fabrics that are flame resistant. Many stlyes
and colors to choose from.They have a safety code that is required by
manufactors to use in vehicles. Everyone who chooses an interior fabric
should at least get this standard. It's only a little more money.
One place sold me two heated seat kits with four large pads, each with
disconnect plugs, relays, wiring (I'm replacing with mil spec) and switches
for two levels of seat heat. $380 Canadian (approx $250 USD) for everything.
They are very easy to install right onto the top surface of the foam before
the covering is on. I was reading Jon's tale of overflying the North Pole,
I'll bet he could have used one of these!!!
So much fun, so little time.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric on a Budget... a proposal |
Randy,
Thanks for your thoughts. It is a struggle to balance simplicity and
redundancy. As with many decisions concerning our planes, the mission they
are to fulfill is of prime importance. I want an IFR capable, all electric
plane. The only architecture that has an automatic full scale backup uses
the B&C SD-20 with their standby regulator that senses when the main bus
voltage drops off due to a primary alternator failure and thereby gets
activated. No thoughts, no pilot action, seamless transition, lots of money
and weight. Overkill for my application. The architecture I am proposing
does have many options that provide for three independent pathways to power
the essential bus. I have thought about the scenario of getting a black
panel when other things are already going south. First off, since the two
busses are totally independent, the likelihood of a total black panel is
very, very small. If this happens, I have one action to take....switch on
the battery to essential bus switch. Now the essential bus is running
directly off the primary battery. If the SD-8 fails and the items powered
by my essential bus go dark, I have the same response....flip one switch.
Now, with my L-40 running strong and the essential bus being powered by the
primary battery, I can CONTEMPLATE (if I have the extra attention to do so)
shedding items off the main bus and running the essential bus through that
pathway. If things are a bit hectic in the cockpit, forget it. The battery
should run the essential bus for a couple of hours anyway. My primary
concern (electrically) is to keep the essential bus powered. As I have
said, emergency action requires the flipping of one switch....the direct
link between the battery and the essential bus. I will also be carrying a
portable GPS/COM for real emergencies.
Where did I end up on this issue? I am buying all the parts to "make it
so." I have also sent a hard copy of this architecture to Bob Nuckolls
asking for feedback. I still am a year or so away from completion so all is
subject to change based on better information.
Thanks again,
Ross
> Ross,
>
> Where did you ever end up on this issue?
> Anyway, here are my thoughts: what you are proposing should work, and it
> looks like you have planned for most contingencies, but I *personally*
still
> have a problem with ANY of these multi-bus approaches... simplicity. My
> thinking is that any sort of electrical malfunction or failure is a
> stressful event. It will undoubtedly happen at an inopportune time thus
> adding to the stress. I have experienced enough stressful times when
flying
> (mostly self-induced due to stupidity or bad judgement) that I do not want
> to have to analyze a semi-complicated bus structure to come up with the
> proper solution to whatever failure has occurred. I know you have given
this
> much thought and considered all possible failure modes, but there are
> undoubtedly failures and circumstances that have somehow escaped your
> analysis, and having to think it through at altitude when under stress is
> something I wanted to avoid. Now this is just my *own personal* thinking.
> With one bus, with a simple supply system, if something goes wrong my
feeble
> mind has an easier task to try to troubleshoot and come up with coping
> strategies under the circumstances. Things like shedding load etc. are
> doable under almost any scenario. In my system I have installed a handheld
> GPS in the panel wired to ships power. If the power goes down it goes to
> battery power instantly and seamlessly, and it's even backlit. Not good
for
> IFR, but that in concert with my Icom handheld VHF should get me out of
most
> jams (he says with fingers crossed).
>
> Anyway, FWIW that's my point of view.
>
> Would be glad to chat about the merits of the various approaches if you
want
> to give me a ring. Office number is 800-886-6659. Talking aviation during
> the workday is a welcome break.
>
> Randy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
> To: ; "Randy Lervold"
> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 1:23 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Electric on a Budget... a proposal
>
>
> >
> > Let me try to frame this discussion differently. I want use a B&C LD-40
> and
> > SD-8. The combined output is about 50 amps as Bob has stated that the
> > output of the SD-8 is closer to 10 amps than 8. I want to limit my
> battery
> > size to save some weight. I would like to utilize the output of the SD-8
> in
> > normal operation not just in emergencies.
> >
> > Some things I have learned from this discussion thus far.
> >
> > 1) The SD-8 needs to be hooked up to a battery for noise reduction
> > purposes. What I don't know is how big this battery has to be. I am
> > assuming for the moment that this could be a small 1-2 amp battery if it
> is
> > not used for helping to start the engine. (Bob has pointed out that the
> > terminals are not beefy enough on these small batteries to handle the
high
> > loads of a starter)
> >
> > 2) It would be preferable for the SD-8 not to have to depend on a
battery
> > contactor to supply energy to a bus since this wastes 1 amp of its
output.
> >
> > 3) The output of the alternator has to be more than what is being used
so
> > the battery can be charged. Bob mentioned a 30% fudge factor. It is
hard
> > for me to imagine that it needs to be this high. I will have to limit
my
> > load off the essential bus to less than 8 amps and my main bus to less
> than
> > 40 amps for battery charging purposes
> >
> > 4) I do not need a battery contactor in the SD-8 system. Since Figure
> Z-6
> > eliminates it, I assume this is appropriate.
> >
> > 5) I can get by with a small main battery (8-10 amps). The only
> negatives
> > are cost and finding one with terminals that will stand up to starter
> > operation.
> >
> >
> > I have studied all of the "Z" diagrams which Bob has made and can't
light
> on
> > one that meets all of my desires as stated above. Here is what I am
> > proposing/pondering at the moment.
> >
> > I will use the architecture as shown in Z-8 with the following changes.
> >
> > 1) Instead of the SD-8 shunt being attached to the battery contactor
and
> > main battery it will be attached to the plus side of a 1-2 amp RG
battery
> > for noise filtering
> > 2) The plus side of this battery will also be attached to the essential
> bus
> > through a diode so that during main battery only operations, power from
> the
> > main battery will not go into charging the small 1-2 amp battery.
> > 3) The plus side of this battery will also be attached to an aux power
> jack
> > on the panel. (In the event of a duel alternator failure, the 1-2 amp
> > battery can power my hand held GPS/Com while the 10-13 amp main battery
> > powers the essential bus)
> > 4) The pathway from the main battery to the essential bus will NOT go
> > through the battery bus but be direct as shown in Z-1.
> > 5) Now we need a way to power the essential bus with the main
alternator
> > when the SD-8 fails. I have come up with three options.
> > a) Insert a switch between the battery contactor and the main
> > bus/essential bus connectoin which would divert power between either
bus.
> > The purpose of this switch is to divet power from the main alternator to
> the
> > essential bus and turn the main bus off with one flip of the switch.
This
> > reduces pilot workload but adds a failure point. I don't know if such a
> > switch exists.
> >
> > b) Add a switch between the main bus and essential bus. With
> this
> > option, when the SD-8 fails, one would shut down the items connected to
> the
> > main bus and then flip on the main bus/essential bus feed. Higher pilot
> > workload but no added switches between the alternator and main bus.
> >
> > c) Just turn on the main battery/essential bus feed. The main
> > battery will supply power to the essential bus and the main alternator
> will
> > charge the battery.
> >
> >
> > Other additions I am contemplating
> >
> > 1) Add an SPDT relay between the essential bus and main bus to allow
> power
> > from the SD-8 to get to the main bus. This will depend on my load
> analysis.
> > If my essential bus is already drawing 8 amps then I won't add this
> > contactor. If the essential bus is drawing 4 amps, the contactor would
> > allow me to run 4 amps of goodies on my main bus when the main
alternator
> > fails and the SD-8 is still going.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terminaltown(at)AOL.COM |
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, zenith-list(at)matronics.com,
rv-list(at)matronics.com.smithmini-list@matronics.com
Hello Listers:
Two new pages.
Click the link for our Home Page
Terminal Town or drag and drop the URLs shown.
http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page104.html Terminal Town's
Electrical Connector High Amp Circuit Breakers
http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page17.html
Terminal Town's
Electrical Connector High Amp Fuses
John @ Terminal Town
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Ailerons destroyed |
>Has anyone redone one aileron? Would anyone know
>how much the parts would cost? I am trying to fill out a claim form for
>the county and I just thought someone on the list might be able to give
>me an idea of what the components might cost. My buddy who was closing
>the door when it came unglued lost one prop blade and spinner on his
>KitFox. Had the wings not been there to stop the falling door, Sean
>would have been history! Thanks for any replies.
>Dave Aronson
>RV4 N504RV
>FWF
Dave,
I can't help directly, but I can tell you that Van's price list is on
the web. Go to:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/parts.txt
It is a big text file, but you can search for part numbers.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 95% done)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael G. McGee" <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | want plan for spinner with hidden screws |
Does anyone have the plans/designs on the spinner with hidden screws? I
thought I would ask before reinventing the wheel, er, spinner.
Thanks,Mike
(MY NEW SENSENICH IS HERE! AAHH-HA-HA!)
Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Aurora, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jah" <jah(at)abraxis.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming 0-360 Engines For Sale |
Listers,
My friend Don has three Lycoming 0-360 engines for sale.
He will rebuild the engine to your specs. All engines include accesories.
Don built my 0-320 for my RV-8. He is very easy to work with and his workmanship
is excellent.
0-360 A4A
0-360 A1F6
0-360 A1D
Please contact Don at:
Don Swords A&P, AI, DAR
Don's Dream Machines
200 Barry Whatly Way
Griffin, Georgia 30224
770-412-8885
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric on a Budget... a proposal |
Ross,
Your mission is different than mine, and you have clearly continued to
analyse it and consider all factors. Bottom line, if you are confortable
with it, and understand it intimately, then go for it. I would also get
Bob's input just as you are doing. BTW, sounds like the standby regulator is
the key to the whole deal. Can you use the SD-8 rather than the SD-20 with
the standby regulator and be done with it?
This is the great part about experimental aviation, don't ya just love it?
Randy
www.rv-8.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Electric on a Budget... a proposal
> Randy,
> Thanks for your thoughts. It is a struggle to balance simplicity and
> redundancy. As with many decisions concerning our planes, the mission
they
> are to fulfill is of prime importance. I want an IFR capable, all
electric
> plane. The only architecture that has an automatic full scale backup uses
> the B&C SD-20 with their standby regulator that senses when the main bus
> voltage drops off due to a primary alternator failure and thereby gets
> activated. No thoughts, no pilot action, seamless transition, lots of
money
> and weight. Overkill for my application. The architecture I am proposing
> does have many options that provide for three independent pathways to
power
> the essential bus. I have thought about the scenario of getting a black
> panel when other things are already going south. First off, since the two
> busses are totally independent, the likelihood of a total black panel is
> very, very small. If this happens, I have one action to take....switch on
> the battery to essential bus switch. Now the essential bus is running
> directly off the primary battery. If the SD-8 fails and the items powered
> by my essential bus go dark, I have the same response....flip one switch.
> Now, with my L-40 running strong and the essential bus being powered by
the
> primary battery, I can CONTEMPLATE (if I have the extra attention to do
so)
> shedding items off the main bus and running the essential bus through that
> pathway. If things are a bit hectic in the cockpit, forget it. The
battery
> should run the essential bus for a couple of hours anyway. My primary
> concern (electrically) is to keep the essential bus powered. As I have
> said, emergency action requires the flipping of one switch....the direct
> link between the battery and the essential bus. I will also be carrying a
> portable GPS/COM for real emergencies.
>
> Where did I end up on this issue? I am buying all the parts to "make it
> so." I have also sent a hard copy of this architecture to Bob Nuckolls
> asking for feedback. I still am a year or so away from completion so all
is
> subject to change based on better information.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Ross
>
>
> > Ross,
> >
> > Where did you ever end up on this issue?
>
> > Anyway, here are my thoughts: what you are proposing should work, and it
> > looks like you have planned for most contingencies, but I *personally*
> still
> > have a problem with ANY of these multi-bus approaches... simplicity. My
> > thinking is that any sort of electrical malfunction or failure is a
> > stressful event. It will undoubtedly happen at an inopportune time thus
> > adding to the stress. I have experienced enough stressful times when
> flying
> > (mostly self-induced due to stupidity or bad judgement) that I do not
want
> > to have to analyze a semi-complicated bus structure to come up with the
> > proper solution to whatever failure has occurred. I know you have given
> this
> > much thought and considered all possible failure modes, but there are
> > undoubtedly failures and circumstances that have somehow escaped your
> > analysis, and having to think it through at altitude when under stress
is
> > something I wanted to avoid. Now this is just my *own personal*
thinking.
> > With one bus, with a simple supply system, if something goes wrong my
> feeble
> > mind has an easier task to try to troubleshoot and come up with coping
> > strategies under the circumstances. Things like shedding load etc. are
> > doable under almost any scenario. In my system I have installed a
handheld
> > GPS in the panel wired to ships power. If the power goes down it goes to
> > battery power instantly and seamlessly, and it's even backlit. Not good
> for
> > IFR, but that in concert with my Icom handheld VHF should get me out of
> most
> > jams (he says with fingers crossed).
> >
> > Anyway, FWIW that's my point of view.
> >
> > Would be glad to chat about the merits of the various approaches if you
> want
> > to give me a ring. Office number is 800-886-6659. Talking aviation
during
> > the workday is a welcome break.
> >
> > Randy
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
> > To: ; "Randy Lervold"
> > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 1:23 PM
> > Subject: RV-List: Electric on a Budget... a proposal
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Let me try to frame this discussion differently. I want use a B&C
LD-40
> > and
> > > SD-8. The combined output is about 50 amps as Bob has stated that the
> > > output of the SD-8 is closer to 10 amps than 8. I want to limit my
> > battery
> > > size to save some weight. I would like to utilize the output of the
SD-8
> > in
> > > normal operation not just in emergencies.
> > >
> > > Some things I have learned from this discussion thus far.
> > >
> > > 1) The SD-8 needs to be hooked up to a battery for noise reduction
> > > purposes. What I don't know is how big this battery has to be. I am
> > > assuming for the moment that this could be a small 1-2 amp battery if
it
> > is
> > > not used for helping to start the engine. (Bob has pointed out that
the
> > > terminals are not beefy enough on these small batteries to handle the
> high
> > > loads of a starter)
> > >
> > > 2) It would be preferable for the SD-8 not to have to depend on a
> battery
> > > contactor to supply energy to a bus since this wastes 1 amp of its
> output.
> > >
> > > 3) The output of the alternator has to be more than what is being
used
> so
> > > the battery can be charged. Bob mentioned a 30% fudge factor. It is
> hard
> > > for me to imagine that it needs to be this high. I will have to limit
> my
> > > load off the essential bus to less than 8 amps and my main bus to less
> > than
> > > 40 amps for battery charging purposes
> > >
> > > 4) I do not need a battery contactor in the SD-8 system. Since
Figure
> > Z-6
> > > eliminates it, I assume this is appropriate.
> > >
> > > 5) I can get by with a small main battery (8-10 amps). The only
> > negatives
> > > are cost and finding one with terminals that will stand up to starter
> > > operation.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have studied all of the "Z" diagrams which Bob has made and can't
> light
> > on
> > > one that meets all of my desires as stated above. Here is what I am
> > > proposing/pondering at the moment.
> > >
> > > I will use the architecture as shown in Z-8 with the following
changes.
> > >
> > > 1) Instead of the SD-8 shunt being attached to the battery contactor
> and
> > > main battery it will be attached to the plus side of a 1-2 amp RG
> battery
> > > for noise filtering
> > > 2) The plus side of this battery will also be attached to the
essential
> > bus
> > > through a diode so that during main battery only operations, power
from
> > the
> > > main battery will not go into charging the small 1-2 amp battery.
> > > 3) The plus side of this battery will also be attached to an aux
power
> > jack
> > > on the panel. (In the event of a duel alternator failure, the 1-2 amp
> > > battery can power my hand held GPS/Com while the 10-13 amp main
battery
> > > powers the essential bus)
> > > 4) The pathway from the main battery to the essential bus will NOT go
> > > through the battery bus but be direct as shown in Z-1.
> > > 5) Now we need a way to power the essential bus with the main
> alternator
> > > when the SD-8 fails. I have come up with three options.
> > > a) Insert a switch between the battery contactor and the main
> > > bus/essential bus connectoin which would divert power between either
> bus.
> > > The purpose of this switch is to divet power from the main alternator
to
> > the
> > > essential bus and turn the main bus off with one flip of the switch.
> This
> > > reduces pilot workload but adds a failure point. I don't know if such
a
> > > switch exists.
> > >
> > > b) Add a switch between the main bus and essential bus.
With
> > this
> > > option, when the SD-8 fails, one would shut down the items connected
to
> > the
> > > main bus and then flip on the main bus/essential bus feed. Higher
pilot
> > > workload but no added switches between the alternator and main bus.
> > >
> > > c) Just turn on the main battery/essential bus feed. The
main
> > > battery will supply power to the essential bus and the main alternator
> > will
> > > charge the battery.
> > >
> > >
> > > Other additions I am contemplating
> > >
> > > 1) Add an SPDT relay between the essential bus and main bus to allow
> > power
> > > from the SD-8 to get to the main bus. This will depend on my load
> > analysis.
> > > If my essential bus is already drawing 8 amps then I won't add this
> > > contactor. If the essential bus is drawing 4 amps, the contactor
would
> > > allow me to run 4 amps of goodies on my main bus when the main
> alternator
> > > fails and the SD-8 is still going.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Electric on a Budget... a proposal |
> Randy,
>
> B&C's website and literature indicate that the SB1A-14 standby regulator
> will work with any alternator
> http://www.bandcspecialty.com/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?3X358218
>
> The cost for one of these babies is $268. Since I want to use the SD-8 on
a
> permanent basis, I don't need one.
>
> Yes I do love the world of experimental aviation.
>
> Ross
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
> To: "Ross Mickey" ; "RV-List"
> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 12:47 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Electric on a Budget... a proposal
>
>
> > Ross,
> > Your mission is different than mine, and you have clearly continued to
> > analyse it and consider all factors. Bottom line, if you are confortable
> > with it, and understand it intimately, then go for it. I would also get
> > Bob's input just as you are doing. BTW, sounds like the standby
regulator
> is
> > the key to the whole deal. Can you use the SD-8 rather than the SD-20
with
> > the standby regulator and be done with it?
> >
> > This is the great part about experimental aviation, don't ya just love
it?
> >
> > Randy
> > www.rv-8.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Richardson Jr." <ray(at)powersportaviation.com> |
"Ray Richardson Jr."
To RV'ers
Powersport has also changed to a MT 3 blade Prop.
We had flown off our 40 hours to get to Oshkosh, using Allen Tohl's
earlier RV-3 Powersport powered prop a 70" dia x 85" pitch.
(but we hit our rev limit at 195 straight and level).
We received our MTV-18b/183-17 72" dia.
3 blade electric constant speed prop at Oshkosh
and installed it right after flying back from Oshkosh.
We now have 80 hours on our Powersport Rotary powered
RV-6A and we love this prop. Extremely smooth and quiet,
Take-off distance 250 feet, climb 2500 ft/min.
cruise 190 mph indicated at 2300 prop speed at 2,000 ft
We are now a OEM dealer for MT props and do recommend
this prop to our customers.
Engines orders and reduction drives to date,
4 RV-8, 2 RV-6, 1 RV-4, 2 Velocity, 1 Lancair 235
Ray
At 08:26 PM 10/9/00 , you wrote:
>
>Just got off the phone today with MT as I plan on ordering a three blade
>hydraulic MTV-12B for my 8 with an IO360. I have also spoken to Hartzell
>about both their 2 and 3 blade props. The weight on the MT 3 blade hydraulic
>is 42lbs. The weight of the Hartzell metal 3 blade is (I'm doing this from
>memory as I don't have my notes in front of me) 74 lbs. The Hartzell 2 blade
>CS metal is 50lbs. The MT's price is $7930. without the spinner or governor.
>The spinner is an additional $970.00. The prop takes 9-12 weeks from time of
>order to delivery.
>
>Jody Villa
>RV8
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <CW9371(at)AOL.COM>
>To: ;
>Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 4:30 PM
>Subject: Re: RV-List: MT vrs CS
>
>
>>
>> In a message dated 10/9/2000 3:00:40 PM Central Daylight Time,
>> gtanner(at)bendcable.com writes:
>>
>>
>> > Don't know about weight difference but the MT prop on the 9 at Vans is
>> > $8500.i
>>
>>
>> that would be the prop for the 9. If you went with a MT prop for the 4 6
>or
>> 8 you would need the areobatic one which is about 1000 bucks more. Plus
>MT
>> requires you to use there spinner. I think that 900 for that.
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Richardson Jr." <ray(at)powersportaviation.com> |
"Ray Richardson Jr."
To RV'ers
Powersport has also changed to a MT 3 blade Prop.
We had flown off our 40 hours to get to Oshkosh, using Allen Tohl's
earlier RV-3 Powersport powered prop a 70" dia x 85" pitch.
(but we hit our rev limit at 195 straight and level).
We received our MTV-18b/183-17 72" dia.
3 blade electric constant speed prop at Oshkosh
and installed it right after flying back from Oshkosh.
We now have 80 hours on our Powersport Rotary powered
RV-6A and we love this prop. Extremely smooth and quiet,
Take-off distance 250 feet, climb 2500 ft/min.
cruise 190 mph indicated at 2300 prop speed at 2,000 ft
We are now a OEM dealer for MT props and do recommend
this prop to our customers.
Engines orders and reduction drives to date,
4 RV-8, 2 RV-6, 1 RV-4, 2 Velocity, 1 Lancair 235
Ray
At 08:26 PM 10/9/00 , you wrote:
>
>Just got off the phone today with MT as I plan on ordering a three blade
>hydraulic MTV-12B for my 8 with an IO360. I have also spoken to Hartzell
>about both their 2 and 3 blade props. The weight on the MT 3 blade hydraulic
>is 42lbs. The weight of the Hartzell metal 3 blade is (I'm doing this from
>memory as I don't have my notes in front of me) 74 lbs. The Hartzell 2 blade
>CS metal is 50lbs. The MT's price is $7930. without the spinner or governor.
>The spinner is an additional $970.00. The prop takes 9-12 weeks from time of
>order to delivery.
>
>Jody Villa
>RV8
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <CW9371(at)AOL.COM>
>To: ;
>Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 4:30 PM
>Subject: Re: RV-List: MT vrs CS
>
>
>>
>> In a message dated 10/9/2000 3:00:40 PM Central Daylight Time,
>> gtanner(at)bendcable.com writes:
>>
>>
> > Don't know about weight difference but the MT prop on the 9 at Vans is
> > $8500.i
>>
>>
>> that would be the prop for the 9. If you went with a MT prop for the 4 6
>or
>> 8 you would need the areobatic one which is about 1000 bucks more. Plus
>MT
>> requires you to use there spinner. I think that 900 for that.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
"Van Artsdalen, Scott"
I munged up one of the ferrule inserts for the brake line fittings. Does
anyone have a supplier for these things? This is for the 1/4" OD and
really tiny ID plastic tubing. The guys at OSH keep trying to sell me a
refrigerator ice-water hookup hose kit! Any help would be appreciated.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcbraem(at)home.com |
| Subject: | Re: hartzell prop polishing |
Bob--
Prop shops use (or used--it's been awhile since I last did this) a
special, "approved" (FAA, I assume) wire grinding wheel specially
designed for removing the anodizing from aluminum blades. I'm not
exactly sure where you would purchase one. There is a very definite
learning curve with this device and one slip or bad gouge and you've got
another junked blade. All grinding has to be "with the grain"--shank to
tip. A good tech can strip and buff a blade in 30 - 45'.
The lay persons answer to this is after removing the paint, non-metallic
sandpaper is used to wet sand the face of the prop with progressively
finer and finer grit to remove the anodizing with the minimum loss of
aluminum from the face of the prop. Then it has to be buffed with
polishing compound with light pressure to avoid overheating. During
your second year:) of wet sanding, $350 may sound like a real bargain.
Again, all sanding has to be done "along the grain"--long axis). After
the initial mirror finish is done, it can be easily maintained by hand
buffing on a regular schedule. Let it go too long and your back to
heavy machinery and possible re-balancing. A sign that you're not
polishing/waxing often enough are little, white oxidation spots,
especially along the leading edge.
The prop shop technician told me that the whole blade should be stripped
and polished to "prevent oxidation from getting under the anodizing at
the shank where it will not be noticed".
I do not know if that is true or not, but...
May the gods be with you,
Boyd
>
>
> OK guys, you've injected a brain-fart into my head....
>
> I've got my prop at the prop shop right now, and I asked how much it
> would cost to have the blades polished. The answer wasn't what I wanted
> to hear ($350).
>
> So, I'm thinking about having them send it back to me with just the
> back-side painted, which won't cost me anything. Or should I paint the
> backside myself after polishing? What is the best polishing process for
> these props if I were to do it myself? Did any of you guys paint the
> shank areas under the spinner so you don't have to remove it to clean up
> inevitable oxidation there? I will have a friend dynamically balance
> the prop after I'm finished, so balance shouldn't be an issue.
>
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 53 hours
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Wing Wiring Runs - long |
It is my opinion that the plans and/or manual could be a little better for
the first time builder concerning wing wiring runs. I am posting this for
builders working on your empanages right now. That is the time to plan the
wing wiring runs and I wish mine were different.
I have seen the insides of several manufactors aircraft and have come to
some general conclusions about where and how to run wires in the wings. I
have also got some coaching at a major overhaul outfit. This is a huge area
of opinion as there is so many different ways of doing it.
I would rather have my wires in a constant metal tube rather than only being
supported by a bushing at every bulkhead. I would run them behind the spar
in two sections with a large gap accross the bay in the middle where the
belcrank is. This would be a perfect set up for any future wiring
considerations long after the aircraft is finished.
If you are using the black plastic bushings from Van then you should be
gluing them in place. I find that they can very easily work their way out. I
am using liberal amounts of RTV behind each one. This will stop them from
vibrating out of position and exposing a wire to an edge of cut aluminum.
Could you imagine this happening several years down the road? Not if they
are glued in place. They certanly can vibrate out if left on their own.
On many of my plastic bushings I have drilled a 3/16 hole very nearby to
pass through a cable tie that clamps the wires and the bushing to the
bulhead/rib. I don't go super tight, just a good snug. This is a good lock
but will make future wiring changes very difficult or impossible.
I like aftermarket rubber grommets better than Vans plastic bushings. They
don't come out anywhere near as easily.
I saw a European aircraft that used aluminum tubes for the wiring runs. That
way if the wire ever wore through and grounded out, the spark would be
contained inside the metal tube until the fuse/breaker blew. I would rather
have that spark way inside a metal tube than in the interior of the wing or
worse yet, in between the rear fuel tank baffle and the wing spar. For this
reason, aluminum is better than plastic tubing. Thin wall is still very
light. This is much better than it happening against the back baffle of the
fuel tank. If I could do do my wing again, there wouldn't be any wires
between the tank and the main spar.
A choice has to be made as to where the wires come in to the fuselage. If I
could choose again it would be one inch off the bottom between the main spar
and the rear spar. It would line up just at the back edge of the wing
inspection cover (so that it is well out of the way of the aileron
bellcrank). This way the wires would end up under the seat pans (RV6A only).
They will be easier to seal up for drafts down there than in front of the
main spar. On the 6A it is a hassle getting wires through the double plates
that the landing gear weldments are mounted on. Taildraggers only have the
fuselage side skin here, it would be easier.
I could go on and on........
I only wish I had read some thing like this three years ago.
Regards,
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Wiring Runs - long |
Norman,
on the 9A the plan suggests enlarging a tooling hole in the main ribs aft of
the main spar big enough to fit plastic tubing into. This looks real nice
with the wing sitting on the bench, but dont know where it is going to wind
up in relation to the fuse, since I havent built it yet. But like you, when
that time comes, it will be too late to change it. Having a wiring diagram to
look at before construction begins would be nice I agree. Would be a good
suggestion to Vans
Kevin Shannon
-9A waiting for fuse kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
After reading Kevin's post on the Challenger accident and the many posts
that have followed I thought it might be a good time to talk about safety
again.
I have not met Kevin personally or any of the crew involved in the accident
but having read his posts to the list and in years past had the opportunity
to ride with test pilots for DeHavilland and Boeing, I am left with the
feeling that these are people who are totally dedicated to safety and the
advancement of aviation.
Kevin was totally justified in making this post for two reasons, one because
many of us knew of his involvement in the Challenger program and for this
reason needed to make sure that all of us knew who the crew was. The other
probably unintended) that we need to be reminded once in awhile about
safety. Here we have is a accident with an aircraft in a totally
professional environment, all it takes is the right combination of
circumstances, a mechanical problem, something missed on the check list, who
knows.
I would like to pass on my experiences of the past two weeks on how one RV
builder handled the safety issue and the first flight on his RV 6 serial #
24700. He is Bill Young of Winfield B.C. who started building his aircraft
before he had a pilot license. During the four year building process he
obtained his pilot license and accumulated 150 hours, 100 on a C 150 and 50
hours on a C 140 and 1.5 hours with Mike in Van's RV over a year ago.
Because of his low time and very little time in an RV he was uncomfortable
doing the first flight by himself so he called me to see if I would go along
as a crew member on the first flight and until he was ready to go on his
own. While I didn't know Bill that well and had never seen the aircraft his
call and approach to the safety question immediately put me at ease and I
agreed to go with him and we set up a time for the next morning. It arrived
overcast but a good ceiling 6-7000 with winds NW 25-30 not the best day for
a first flight but met with him in Vernon where he shares a hangar with a
friend. Because of the winds and the mechanical turbulence generated in our
hilly country I thought he would be uncomfortable doing the first flight
under these conditions so planned to use the time talking to Bill about the
aircraft and himself, and have a good look.
Turns out Bill is a heavy duty mechanic with years of experience and a vast
knowledge of fuel systems, electrical, you name it. The more I talked to him
and the more I saw of the aircraft and his workmanship the more comfortable
I was getting. Because of his work schedule (and I am sure after four years
of building) I could tell he was anxious to fly, so said lets give it a go.
He taxied the aircraft to the fuel pump and we put on just over half tanks
to keep the weight down a bit and by fueling just prior to take-off the
turbulence in the tanks caused by the refueling gave us a chance to check
for crud from the building process using a clear sight sampler. I made up a
check list for him using the check list I have used all my life for light
piston engine aircraft and taped it to the panel right in front of the left
seat. With the two of us doing a last walk around talking it up as we did it
we where ready to go.
With the wind if anything a bit stronger and about 25 degrees of the runway
and brakes only on the left side it was agreed that I would occupy the left
seat for the first flight. We taxied to the run-up area, ran through the
check list did a mag check at 1700, ( I like to keep ground running to a
minimum and check for full power as full throttle is reached, I was familiar
with the back ground on this 1300 hour engine and had no real concerns)
taxied to position. The only snag on the run-up was a slow idle. For me the
strong wind is an advantage on a first flight in this case in the event of a
forced landing our touch down speed would be under 30 MPH. I asked Bill to
monitor the engine gauges during take-off and initial climb and the way we
went.
The aircraft is equipped with a 0360 swinging a Aylmar-Deluth 68x78 wooden
propeller, RPM on reaching full throttle was 2250 and climbing out at 120
indicated and full throttle gave 2400 RPM and 1500 FPM with the empty weight
of the aircraft being 980 pounds, airport elevation is 1140 and the surface
temp was 65 F. Going through 2500 feet power was reduced to 25 inches and
we showed a good solid 1000 FPM still maintaining 120 MPH indicated. Going
through 3500 feet there was a loud "YaHoo" with the comment "I can't believe
it".The oil temp was at 120 F at take-off and reached 180 degrees and the
oil pressure rock solid at 80 pounds as we reached 6000 ft. with the CHT
reaching between 390 and 440 and the fuel pressure at around five pounds
with or without the boost pump
Leveling at 6000 we accelerated rapidly and the RPM built very fast. I
can't remember the last time I flew with a wooden prop so was scrambling to
keep the RPM below the 2700 red line. Getting back to a reasonable power
setting for a first flight we settled for 21 "MP which gave 2350 RPM and
165 MPH indicated at 5000 ft.
The CHT settled down to around 375 and the oil temp. was running at the
vernatherm setting if 185.
I like to keep the first flight to around 30 min. in the event of any leaks
so it was time to do a couple of stalls and get a airspeed reference for the
approach. Turned out to be around 58 clean and 52 indicated with full
flaps. Due to the turbulence it was hard to get an accurate reading. The
aircraft flew hands off in the rolling plain, found the electric elevator
trim to be a bit too sensitive and it needed a rudder trim in cruise to keep
the ball in the middle. Returning to the circuit I got the second propeller
surprise, I set up the approach the same as I would with my own RV, I noted
it was hard to slow up had to get the power almost completely off and even
raise the nose a bit on down wind to get to flap speed and again turning to
final as I would with my constant speed it wasn't long before I realized
that we were gliding like a sail plane and wound up side slipping all the
way to the ground to make the end of the runway this of course was all
because of losing the flat pitch of the constant speed at the low power
settings. Wind was still about the same with a 25 degree cross wind so on
the flair started to roll in some aileron to stop the drift and everything
was going fairly good until the stick wouldn't go any farther to the left
even though it was only about half way to full travel. As it turned out I
had Bill's long left leg jammed up against the center console and he managed
to get it pulled back before I broke it trying to stop the drift. At shut
down checked the belly and it was still shinning like a new coin and the
only snags were adjust the idle and put a trim tab on the rudder.
The next session a couple of days later was three of four circuits with Bill
in the right seat to give him a better feel for his aircraft then switched
seats. After a couple more sessions and four more hours of concentrated
circuits Bill had good directional control and the landing flair in hand and
was away on his own. He now has 21 trouble free hours on it and is a happy
man. Because he elected to have someone with ample RV experience whether it
was me or someone else (it wouldn't of mattered)go with him at the beginning
the whole process has been incident free and a smooth transition into a
higher performance aircraft. Had he not done this, due to his low time and
inexperience on the RV he would have stood a good chance of damaging his
pride and joy.
Probably the most important safety benefit for Bill was learning how
important it is to have a proper check list and using it all the time
coupled with good engine handling. Engine abuse whether it be intentional or
not is not being fair to family or passengers.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming 0-360 Engines For Sale |
Could you tell your friend that if he would consider a
trade, I have a limited edition snap on intimidator
tool box in new condition. I would swap him for a
timed out 0-360 And I will drive to him to make the
trade
Glenn Williams
--- jah wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
>
> My friend Don has three Lycoming 0-360 engines for
> sale.
>
> He will rebuild the engine to your specs. All
> engines include accesories.
>
> Don built my 0-320 for my RV-8. He is very easy to
> work with and his workmanship is excellent.
>
> 0-360 A4A
> 0-360 A1F6
> 0-360 A1D
>
> Please contact Don at:
>
> Don Swords A&P, AI, DAR
> Don's Dream Machines
> 200 Barry Whatly Way
> Griffin, Georgia 30224
> 770-412-8885
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terminaltown(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Oh no he's back! |
rv-list(at)matronics.com, zenith-list(at)matronics.com,
glasair-list(at)matronics.com
Hello Listers:
I am interested in talking with folks building airplanes and are close to or
into the wiring stage. If you are in a 50 mile radius of Seattle and wouldn't
mind a bit of company I would enjoy seeing your project and talking with
you...Not selling you anything...I am just trying to add to my knowledge
level.
Also I am sorry I didn't add this to my first E mails to the list. The John
at Terminal Town is the John from AAMR/AirCore. The person who was buying
AMMR messed it up and backed out of the deal. So here I am, glad to back!
I put up more pages today...one with bus bar predrlled stock...If my page
announcements are becoming a pain feel free to tell me to shut up.
Best regards,
John Caldwell @ Terminal Town
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
listers: I recieved my 8A fuselage today. (will
inventory tommorrow) Just wanted to let you guys know
that all the weldments were powder coated and am happy
to state that there appears to be no damage from the
shipping people. It's like Christmas in October as
everything was wrapped with paper. Can't wait to start
construction. Now if I could just get someone to trade
me a timed out 0-360 for a limited edition snap on
intimidator tool box.
Glenn Williams
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
Hi Glen
I too received my fuse not too long ago.
I checked all bags against published lists and came up several items,
(nuts, bolts, platenuts etc. ) short. I also noted that some drawings
had revised bolt call-out's (spar carry through drawing) but the bag(s)
contained the old (pre-revised) bolts.
All were replaced in no time by Van's, excelent service !!
however, it could have been frustrating when you open a bag and you are
short that one important bolt....
THIS IS NOT A LETTER OF COMPLAINT ! just hoping I can prevent some
agrivation halfway in somebody's project.
Gert
glenn williams wrote:
>
>
> listers: I recieved my 8A fuselage today. (will
> inventory tommorrow) Just wanted to let you guys know
> that all the weldments were powder coated and am happy
> to state that there appears to be no damage from the
> shipping people. It's like Christmas in October as
> everything was wrapped with paper. Can't wait to start
> construction. Now if I could just get someone to trade
> me a timed out 0-360 for a limited edition snap on
> intimidator tool box.
>
> Glenn Williams
>
> ====
> Glenn Williams
> 8A
> A&P
> N81GW
>
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric on a Budget... a proposal |
I see on that web page that there is also an "Installation Kit for Standby
System" which is another $228. Is this necessary? So for a single bus system
such as mine the cost for a total backup supply system would be...
$430 SD-8
$268 Standby regulator
$228 Installation kit
$926 TOTAL
While that seems shockingly high at first glance, to have a high quality
backup source in an IFR aircraft this doesn't seem so bad. Actually if I was
doing IFR I'd probably do it.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 1:26 PM
Subject: Fw: RV-List: Electric on a Budget... a proposal
>
>
> > Randy,
> >
> > B&C's website and literature indicate that the SB1A-14 standby regulator
> > will work with any alternator
> >
http://www.bandcspecialty.com/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?3X358218
> >
> > The cost for one of these babies is $268. Since I want to use the SD-8
on
> a
> > permanent basis, I don't need one.
> >
> > Yes I do love the world of experimental aviation.
> >
> > Ross
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
> > To: "Ross Mickey" ; "RV-List"
>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 12:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Electric on a Budget... a proposal
> >
> >
> > > Ross,
> > > Your mission is different than mine, and you have clearly continued to
> > > analyse it and consider all factors. Bottom line, if you are
confortable
> > > with it, and understand it intimately, then go for it. I would also
get
> > > Bob's input just as you are doing. BTW, sounds like the standby
> regulator
> > is
> > > the key to the whole deal. Can you use the SD-8 rather than the SD-20
> with
> > > the standby regulator and be done with it?
> > >
> > > This is the great part about experimental aviation, don't ya just love
> it?
> > >
> > > Randy
> > > www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Flame Block Interiors |
For those of you putting together interior pieces and are concerned about
fire retardant issues, there is a product called Flame Block from ACS. P/N
09-05760 $21.95 page 284. If you just must have that piece of foam that
isn't fire retardant, you can spray it with this stuff before installation.
It comes in a 32 oz spray bottle good for 150 square feet. You can put it on
all of your fabrics, carpets, and foam items. Any one using regular foam
should be using this product or one just like it.
I wonder if the people selling ready made interiors know about this stuff. I
sure would want my foam treated before it gets covered. Oh, I forgot, Oregon
Aero seat foam doesn't burn. No worries.
I have been shopping for interior fabric lately. I have visited two shops
and they both carry automobile fabrics that are flame resistant. Many stlyes
and colors to choose from.They have a safety code that is required by
manufactors to use in vehicles. Everyone who chooses an interior fabric
should at least get this standard. It's only a little more money.
One place sold me two heated seat kits with four large pads, each with
disconnect plugs, relays, wiring (I'm replacing with mil spec) and switches
for two levels of seat heat. $380 Canadian (approx $250 USD) for everything.
They are very easy to install right onto the top surface of the foam before
the covering is on. I was reading Jon's tale of overflying the North Pole,
I'll bet he could have used one of these!!!
So much fun, so little time.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)mari.net> |
| Subject: | Prepunched firewall edge distances |
Hello All:
I too just got my fuse kit and am ready to start drilling my firewall.
Trouble is I see that there are holes that have been predrilled in the
WD602-R and WD602-L that lie right over the junction of the F601C spacer and
F601B. In other words, if I were to drill through the WD602-R or L, I would
end up with a half of a hole in the F601C and half a hole in the F601B.
Either I just forge ahead and drill, realizing that the F601C in particular
is a spacer and is sandwiched between the firewall and the WD602-R or L, or
I drill a new hole in the WD602-R or L to avoid these half holes (nothing
worse than a bunch of half-holes!!)
Has anyone else noticed this? Thanks in advance gang.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
fuse
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: want plan for spinner with hidden screws |
Jerry Springer wrote:
>
>
> "Michael G. McGee" wrote:
> >
> >
> > Does anyone have the plans/designs on the spinner with hidden screws? I
> > thought I would ask before reinventing the wheel, er, spinner.
> > Thanks,Mike
> > (MY NEW SENSENICH IS HERE! AAHH-HA-HA!)
> > Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Aurora, OR
> >
>
> Mike I have the hidden screw spinner. I just happen to have it off
> right now also. If you could make it to Hillsboro airport I could
> show you how it works.
>
> Jerry
Jerry, Jerry, share the secret.......puuuleeez?
Inquiring minds want to know how the spinner seemingly levitates on the
bulkheads!
Sam Buchanan (RV-6 with ugly screws sticking out the spinner....)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ailerons destroyed |
10/12/2000 02:37:59 PM
What does a aileron for a piper or cessna or beechcraft cost new from
factory or the salvage yard. I would use there costs for guidelines for
your replacement estimate.
David Aronson (at)matronics.com on 10/12/2000 10:39:18
AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com; Please respond to David Aronson
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV-List: Ailerons destroyed
Listers:
Last week I was delt a slight reversal to my ongoing RV4 project. The
hanger door of my rented county hanger came down, off of it,s tracks,
and destroyed my left aileron. I had the wings stored, leading edge
down, on a rolling gurney. The right aileron I had removed a few weeks
prior to remove the attachment brackets to paint or to have powder
coated (they were getting some oxidation). The door, 40ft X 18ft came
off it's track and hit the aileron at mid point, completely screwing
it. I will need to order all the components except possibly the
galvanized pipe at the leading edge. I will probably be able to use the
attachment brackets. Has anyone redone one aileron? Would anyone know
how much the parts would cost? I am trying to fill out a claim form for
the county and I just thought someone on the list might be able to give
me an idea of what the components might cost. My buddy who was closing
the door when it came unglued lost one prop blade and spinner on his
KitFox. Had the wings not been there to stop the falling door, Sean
would have been history! Thanks for any replies.
Dave Aronson
RV4 N504RV
FWF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Can you share your checklist?
Larry Bowen
RV-8 fuse
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Eustace Bowhay
> Subject: RV-List: Safety
>
[snip]
>
> I made up a
> check list for him using the check list I have used all my life for light
> piston engine aircraft and taped it to the panel right in front
> of the left
> seat.
[snip]
> Probably the most important safety benefit for Bill was learning how
> important it is to have a proper check list and using it all the time
> coupled with good engine handling. Engine abuse whether it be
> intentional or
> not is not being fair to family or passengers.
>
> Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric on a Budget... a proposal |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
>I see on that web page that there is also an "Installation Kit for Standby
>System" which is another $228. Is this necessary? So for a single bus system
>such as mine the cost for a total backup supply system would be...
>
>$430 SD-8
>$268 Standby regulator
>$228 Installation kit
>$926 TOTAL
>
>While that seems shockingly high at first glance, to have a high quality
>backup source in an IFR aircraft this doesn't seem so bad. Actually if I was
>doing IFR I'd probably do it.
>
>Randy
The install kit is for Bonanzas and Cessnas.
The standby regulator is for use with the
SD-20 alternator only which will give you 20-25 amps of
aux alternator power. The SD-8 will give you 8-10 amps of
power and comes WITH it's own regulator. You'll
need to add ov protection to the SD-8 according to
diagrams published on our website but the SD-8 should
go in for less than $475 total.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "alain nantel" <alain_nantel(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Infinity Grips |
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Re: Dual Infinity Grips
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:41:36 -0500
>
>
>
> >
> >The diagram shown will work ok-untill you push an up and down switch at
>the
> >same time, then you've got smoke. The + and - will be shorted together.
> >
> >Dave
>
> A wiring diagram that avoids faults due to conflicting
> commands from dual controls can be downloaded from
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/flaps.pdf
>
> This diagram uses some pretty "heavy" relays but they
> are inexpensive. Mount with their own bases. Have recessed
> fast-on terminals and will work with any electric flap
> or trim motor up through 20A.
>
> The limit switches are optional depending on your particular
> airplane. If pilot and copilot enter conflicting commands with
> this circuit, the flaps simply stop moving.
>
>
> Bob . . .
> --------------------------------------------
> ( Knowing about a thing is different than )
> ( understanding it. One can know a lot )
> ( and still understand nothing. )
> ( C.F. Kettering )
> --------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
Hi all
I would like to jump in if I may, here is how I did it and it's working
great.
I used the same system that most of you are talking about with one addition
, I used a third small switch that I mounted sideways on my instrument panel
and labeled it flaps pilot and co-pilot. It's wired in after the two flap
stickgrip switches and decides wich one will get the ground required for the
relay to close. I did it that way because I was worried that at one time or
an other I would forget to check the other stick grip and activate the down
selection while the other would still be in the up position since that
position on mine is not spring loaded back to the center position.
I would love to draw it for you but since i'm not very good at this on a
computer maybe "Electric Bob" could do that for us.
Thanks in advance and hope this helps.
Alain_Nantel(at)hotmail.com
RV-6 C-GGRS
90% done 90% to go
(450) 447-5153
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flame Block Interiors |
-----Original Message-----
From: Norman Hunger <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Date: Thursday, October 12, 2000 8:02 PM
Subject: RV-List: Flame Block Interiors
>
>For those of you putting together interior pieces and are concerned about
>fire retardant issues, there is a product called Flame Block from ACS. P/N
>09-05760 $21.95 page 284. If you just must have that piece of foam that
>isn't fire retardant, you can spray it with this stuff before installation.
>It comes in a 32 oz spray bottle good for 150 square feet. You can put it
on
>all of your fabrics, carpets, and foam items. Any one using regular foam
>should be using this product or one just like it.
>
>So much fun, so little time.
>Norman Hunger
>RV6A Delta BC
>
With all due respect, Norman, I am highly skeptical of a surface treatment
significantly altering the bulk properties of a foam. Have you actually
tried this wonder stuff on foam? I have rejected many so-called safe
materials for use in my plane after putting the propane torch to them.
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 0.0 flight hours (0.5 ground run so
far)
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karl Schilling" <k_schilling(at)iquest.net> |
You should be able to get them at any good hardware or auto parts store,
they are not aircraft only parts. Karl RV-8 711KN
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric on a Budget... a proposal |
bob
i to am planning an all electric IFR panel, what is wrong with 2 odessy
batteries, 1 being on standby incase of an emergency. if the altinator fails,
the 1st battery will drain, then switch to the 2nd battery to get to the
nearest airport. with the size of the odessy battery, i think 2 will fit in
the battery box vans provides.
is my thinking in error?
thanks in advance
scott
tampa
rv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Wischmeyer <edwisch(at)aa.net> |
Listers -
http://www.kitplanes.com has an article on panel design. Click on
Features, then scroll all the way to the bottom for the "Panel Perfect"
(their title!) article. This will give you a quick overview of many
factors that you should consider in laying out your panel, and how to
avoid shortcomings that are so common. This same article will be
appearing on the Panel Planner CD in the near future.
Ed Wischmeyer
RV-4
author of said article
--
NOTE: 5% of messages sent to me don't make it, so use a return receipt to
insure delivery. The phone company system drops packets.
- - - - - - - -
Ed Wischmeyer
Web page: http://members.aa.net/~edwisch
Email: edwisch(at)aa.net
name="edwisch.vcf"
filename="edwisch.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Wischmeyer;Ed
tel;fax:425 898-9566
tel;home:425 898-9856
adr:;;;;;;
version:2.1
email;internet:edwisch(at)alum.mit.edu
fn:Ed Wischmeyer
end:vcard
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ? mounting the VHF & Transpdr ant |
I'm getting ready to mount my VHF and transponder antenna, I want to put them
on the belly of my RV4. Is there anything I should know, how for back,
interference with com, transmitting problems, etc.?
Blue Skies,
Carey Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Infinity Grips |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
>> A wiring diagram that avoids faults due to conflicting
>> commands from dual controls can be downloaded from
>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/flaps.pdf
>>
>> This diagram uses some pretty "heavy" relays but they
>> are inexpensive. Mount with their own bases. Have recessed
>> fast-on terminals and will work with any electric flap
>> or trim motor up through 20A.
>
>Bob, Thanks for the reply. Looking at the diagram, can I ask some stupid
>questions?
>
>Off each of the relays there is a 16AWG wire going to "L". What is this?
>
>Off the sticks, is the G1 ground?
It can be. "L" is for local ground meaning that there's no
particular benefit for taking it to any specific ground.
>
>Is this how I would control other items with more than one switch like the
>fuel pump?
>
Hmmm . . . similar. What gizmos do you want to add to the stick?
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Roseblade <davidagr(at)emirates.net.ae> |
| Subject: | Ailerons destroyed |
Listers
For info, we have just purchased a new aileron for our PA28-181, cost UK
Pounds 690. Salvage yards - US Dollars 600.
Rgds
David Roseblade
RV6A - Persian Gulf, wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of pcondon(at)csc.com
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Ailerons destroyed
What does a aileron for a piper or cessna or beechcraft cost new from
factory or the salvage yard. I would use there costs for guidelines for
your replacement estimate.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: NW area engine shops |
Hi listers,
I am looking at buying a dis-assembled O-320, subject to the case, crank, cam
and lifters being servicable, any one know a good place to have these items
yellow tagged in the Northwest (Seattle) area? I plan to have the seller ship
directly to the shop, then forward to me if everything checks out, or back to
him if it doesn't.
Thanks in advance
Kevin Shannon
-9A waiting for fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Infinity Grip - Another question. |
I will be installing a single Infinity grip in my flying RV-4 within the
next couple of months. Infinity offers 2 different switches for use with
the flaps.
OptionOne has the "up" position as a momentary position, returning to
neutral when released.
Option Two has a switch that stays in the up position. It would be nice to
have the flaps fully retract without having to keep my finger on the switch.
However the RV electric flap system would keep running. When reaching the
upper limit the system just freewheels, it doesn't shut off. What have you
guys done to eliminate this? Some kind of microswitch that the flap linkage
triggers to open the circut when in the fully up position.
Please be advised that my electrical understanding is solid but pretty
rudamentary and I am not particularly good at reading wiring diagrams. If
the use of the switch that stays "up" requires multiple switches or relays.
I'll probably just use the momentary switch.
Your advice is greatly appreciated.
Don Mei
N92CT RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric on a Budget... a proposal |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> . . . . I want an IFR capable, all electric
>plane. The only architecture that has an automatic full scale backup uses
>the B&C SD-20 with their standby regulator that senses when the main bus
>voltage drops off due to a primary alternator failure and thereby gets
>activated. No thoughts, no pilot action, seamless transition, lots of money
>and weight. Overkill for my application. The architecture I am proposing
>does have many options that provide for three independent pathways to power
>the essential bus.
>Where did I end up on this issue? I am buying all the parts to "make it
>so." I have also sent a hard copy of this architecture to Bob Nuckolls
>asking for feedback. I still am a year or so away from completion so all is
>subject to change based on better information.
>> Anyway, here are my thoughts: what you are proposing should work, and it
>> looks like you have planned for most contingencies, but I *personally*
>> still have a problem with ANY of these multi-bus approaches...
simplicity. My
>> thinking is that any sort of electrical malfunction or failure is a
>> stressful event. It will undoubtedly happen at an inopportune time thus
>> adding to the stress. I have experienced enough stressful times when
>> flying . . .
"most contingencies?" . . . "three independent pathways?"
Guys . . . you're letting decades of "dark and stormy night"
stories played out in certified aircraft drive unfounded
fears and scenearios to the top of your architecture decisions.
Virtually every known reason for an electrical system malfunction
has been addressed in the variety of system architectures
we've illustrated over the years. Yes, things MIGHT break
but there is no reason for any failure of an electrical system
component to precipitate an electrical emergency. Please review
chapter 18 in our book. You guys are building the best airplanes
to have ever flown. Certified ships smoke a lot because they
are BUILT and MAINTAINED that way. Further, they feature components
overhaulable only to ORIGNAL configuation as designed in 1965.
Please do your best to use our experience in certified aviation
to evolve AWAY from their mistakes . . . not ACCOMODATE them.
It's not difficult. Before you start pushing things around on the
wiring diagrams, tell me of any single failure event with
any of our power distribution diagrams that creates a tense
situation in flight that has no simple resolution. If you have
good reason to depart from the published suggestions, then
we need to fix the drawings.
Let's do this like critical thinking scientists, not pilots
and mechanics educated and trained to government standards.
This isn't a "not invented here" protest rather an invitation
to participate in critical review of contemporary thinking
to advance the state of our art . . . Bottom line is, wire
your airplane any way you wish . . . but be aware that lots
of folks are listening in. I get a couple of wiring diagrams
a month from folks asking, "what's wrong with THIS way?"
If we don't have solid advice to give, let's fix the advice
before we create dozens of variations on a theme based on
nothing better than our distrust of aviation hardware
and a lack of understanding about how to fix it.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | rv6(A) pre-punched tail kit for sale or trade |
I posted this a while back with little response so I'll try again.
I have a inventoried but barely started pre-punched RV6(A) empennage kit
with or without elevator servo I'd like to sell (or trade for a RV8 tail
kit).
I'll save you $210 off of Van's fixed price split PLUS split the shipping
charges in the U.S. PLUS I'll include the FULL SET of FULL SIZE size plans
and the entire kit instructions so you can see the whole thing and not have
to buy the preview plans (the latter is over $120 value but Van's supposedly
won't sell them to builders anymore - I got mine from someone who decided
not to build a couple of years ago).
Van's price for the empennage alone is 1165 plus 190 for the elevator
electric trim kit, plus $15 for crating and around $40 shipping for both
boxes. So my price for everything including the elevator servo package and
complete full sized plans/instructions is $1200 ($1410 - $210) plus half the
shipping.
The plans that van's ships with each sub kit are always the latest at the
time of shipment and the order was placed 3/17/00 and the latest rev date I
see on any individual plan is 1/6/00. Updates to plans, not that I think
there are any current revisions I don't have, are easy to get (and I think
are even free).
lucky macy
(610) 892-5068
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric on a Budget... a proposal |
I am not Bob but I don't think he sees anything wrong with this as he has
drawn such a system. It is Figure Z-2 at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/errata.html
Ross
> bob
> i to am planning an all electric IFR panel, what is wrong with 2 odessy
> batteries, 1 being on standby incase of an emergency. if the altinator
fails,
> the 1st battery will drain, then switch to the 2nd battery to get to the
> nearest airport. with the size of the odessy battery, i think 2 will fit
in
> the battery box vans provides.
> is my thinking in error?
> thanks in advance
> scott
> tampa
> rv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
| Subject: | Re: Electric on a Budget... a proposal |
Bob,
>>I have also sent a hard copy of this architecture to Bob Nuckolls
> >asking for feedback.
>I get a couple of wiring diagrams
> a month from folks asking, "what's wrong with THIS way?"
Sorry to add to your pile. I sent it to you not so much to find out what's
wrong with it than to insure proper communication to you of what I am
proposing.
> Guys . . . you're letting decades of "dark and stormy night"
> stories played out in certified aircraft drive unfounded
> fears and scenearios to the top of your architecture decisions.
I do not believe this was my motivation. In my original post on this
subject I made it clear that I wanted to USE the power generated by the SD-8
fulltime thus allowing me to use a smaller L-40 alternator. My combined
alternator generated output will be around 50 amps. In order to address the
dueling regulator issue, these systems are isolated from one another. Then
I add the standard main battery to essential bus pathway you use in most of
your diagrams as a backup. The result is three independent pathways to the
essential bus. "Dark and stormy night" syndrome did not motivate this
architecture but rather the desire to use the SD-8 on a full time basis.
> If you have good reason to depart from the published suggestions, then
> we need to fix the drawings.
I do not belive my proposal is designed to "fix" any problem with your
designs which I believe to be the best. It is rather another alternative
which addresses my desire to use the SD-8 on a full time basis rather than
having the power it is generating go unused until an emergency.
> If we don't have solid advice to give, let's fix the advice
> before we create dozens of variations on a theme based on
> nothing better than our distrust of aviation hardware
> and a lack of understanding about how to fix it.
As I have already stated, I do not believe my motivation is "based on
nothing better than our distrust of aviation hardware and a lack of
understanding about how to fix it." But, I have been wrong before and am
always open to constructive criticism.
Thanks again,
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terminaltown(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Fwd: Zenith-List: Oh no he's back! |
glasair-list(at)matronics.com
In a message dated 10/13/00 10:24:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
pchapman(at)ionsys.com writes:
<<
Hi,
I'm not trying to flame, but I would suggest fewer postings. Not every
little upgrade to a commercial site need be announced publicly. But if some
topic is being discussed on the list, and you have your own opinions on the
matter, which are to be found on your site, then it is worth speaking up.
Sharing a little 'expert' knowledge should hopefully draw potential
customers, without having to directly plug a product on a list. Bob
Nuckolls and Jim Weir are others who have expertise in their fields, and
participate publicly in newsgroups or e-mail lists.
>>
This is a response to several E mails (some real flamers!) I have received
with regard to my question about my many posts over the last week. I've
removed the sender name on the above E mail. This one is one of the nicer
ones.
Hi Peter:
Thanks for the mail. I don't consider this one a flame job. My apologies if
the posts annoyed you or anyone else. I am going to post this to the various
lists less your E mail address as a reply or explanation to other Flame jobs
I have received from my E mail I posted yesterday.
Part of the logic behind the number of posts were, firstly they were
requested by quite a few list members from the stand point of wanting to know
when new items that they are looking for came on line.
Secondly we are a new site. We used to be AAMR/AirCore which was sold about 3
months ago to a person who, putting it kindly, dropped the ball. I have taken
the company back and am trying to get to a point where it will at least break
even.
Lastly the items or pages that were posted have items that AAMR didn't carry,
but had been put on a wish list generated by our previous customers.
Might I ask you if you have visited the site? There is I think there is and
have been told by others, something of value there in the form of a fair
number of "How To" pages aimed at folks like yourself who may not have an
electrical connection background and are building an aircraft
The one thing I am trying to do, as is Bob N. is to provide a service that
will help you do it the right way. Many years ago I got to experience, as a
passenger, first hand the seriousness of equipment failure due in part to
shoddy work. It was horrific to say the least. I don't want to see that
happen to anyone else.
This is the end of the explanation and apology. The quantity of posts will
slow way down now. Thanks again for writing.
John @ Terminal Town
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:49:15 -0400
From: Peter Chapman <pchapman(at)ionsys.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Oh no he's back!
At 06:58 PM 12-10-2000 , you wrote:
>I put up more pages today...one with bus bar predrlled stock...If my page
>announcements are becoming a pain feel free to tell me to shut up.
Hi,
I'm not trying to flame, but I would suggest fewer postings. Not every
little upgrade to a commercial site need be announced publicly. But if some
topic is being discussed on the list, and you have your own opinions on the
matter, which are to be found on your site, then it is worth speaking up.
Sharing a little 'expert' knowledge should hopefully draw potential
customers, without having to directly plug a product on a list. Bob
Nuckolls and Jim Weir are others who have expertise in their fields, and
participate publicly in newsgroups or e-mail lists.
Take care,
Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NW area engine shops/Engine inspection |
10/13/2000 02:30:21 PM
I am doing the same thing with a IO-360 200 HP engine. BE SURE the gears
that lurk behind the accessory case (lots of them), the oil pump & gears,
oil filter casting & oil pressure fitting all are accounted for and
inspected. Also, The rods need to be yellow tagged....All in All any
missing parts can add up pretty quickly. Be sure to get the inner-cylinder
baffling (not vans) too. Fuel pump, carb, mags,starter,framstat, widget &
thingamajig all need accounting also. This is not a bad way to go. I wanted
to go this route also because of the cost savings and the associated
education......good luck.
Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM@matronics.com on 10/13/2000 11:16:37 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com; Please respond to
Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: NW area engine shops
Hi listers,
I am looking at buying a dis-assembled O-320, subject to the case, crank,
cam
and lifters being servicable, any one know a good place to have these items
yellow tagged in the Northwest (Seattle) area? I plan to have the seller
ship
directly to the shop, then forward to me if everything checks out, or back
to
him if it doesn't.
Thanks in advance
Kevin Shannon
-9A waiting for fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BRIAN HOPE" <BRIAN(at)jodell.freeserve.co.uk> |
,
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List: Oh no he's back! |
Hi John,
I for one am always happy to receive e-mail from companies letting me know
of products that I might find useful in building my Zodiac. OK it is a plug
for your business but what the heck, the delete button takes less effort
than searching for product suppliers.
Brian Hope. Scratch building 601UL and doing the scary bit of drilling the
spar brackets/spars.
-----Original Message-----
From: Terminaltown(at)aol.com <Terminaltown(at)aol.com>
; glasair-list(at)matronics.com
Date: 13 October 2000 19:33
Subject: Fwd: Zenith-List: Oh no he's back!
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Terminaltown(at)aol.com
>
>
>In a message dated 10/13/00 10:24:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>pchapman(at)ionsys.com writes:
>
><<
> Hi,
> I'm not trying to flame, but I would suggest fewer postings. Not every
> little upgrade to a commercial site need be announced publicly. But if
some
> topic is being discussed on the list, and you have your own opinions on
the
> matter, which are to be found on your site, then it is worth speaking up.
> Sharing a little 'expert' knowledge should hopefully draw potential
> customers, without having to directly plug a product on a list. Bob
> Nuckolls and Jim Weir are others who have expertise in their fields, and
> participate publicly in newsgroups or e-mail lists.
> >>
>
>This is a response to several E mails (some real flamers!) I have received
>with regard to my question about my many posts over the last week. I've
>removed the sender name on the above E mail. This one is one of the nicer
>ones.
>
>Hi Peter:
>
>Thanks for the mail. I don't consider this one a flame job. My apologies if
>the posts annoyed you or anyone else. I am going to post this to the
various
>lists less your E mail address as a reply or explanation to other Flame
jobs
>I have received from my E mail I posted yesterday.
>
>Part of the logic behind the number of posts were, firstly they were
>requested by quite a few list members from the stand point of wanting to
know
>when new items that they are looking for came on line.
>
>Secondly we are a new site. We used to be AAMR/AirCore which was sold about
3
>months ago to a person who, putting it kindly, dropped the ball. I have
taken
>the company back and am trying to get to a point where it will at least
break
>even.
>
>Lastly the items or pages that were posted have items that AAMR didn't
carry,
>but had been put on a wish list generated by our previous customers.
>
>Might I ask you if you have visited the site? There is I think there is and
>have been told by others, something of value there in the form of a fair
>number of "How To" pages aimed at folks like yourself who may not have an
>electrical connection background and are building an aircraft
>
>The one thing I am trying to do, as is Bob N. is to provide a service that
>will help you do it the right way. Many years ago I got to experience, as a
>passenger, first hand the seriousness of equipment failure due in part to
>shoddy work. It was horrific to say the least. I don't want to see that
>happen to anyone else.
>
>This is the end of the explanation and apology. The quantity of posts will
>slow way down now. Thanks again for writing.
>
>John @ Terminal Town
>
>
>Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:49:15 -0400
>To: Terminaltown(at)aol.com
>From: Peter Chapman <pchapman(at)ionsys.com>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Oh no he's back!
>
>At 06:58 PM 12-10-2000 , you wrote:
>
>>I put up more pages today...one with bus bar predrlled stock...If my page
>>announcements are becoming a pain feel free to tell me to shut up.
>
>Hi,
>I'm not trying to flame, but I would suggest fewer postings. Not every
>little upgrade to a commercial site need be announced publicly. But if some
>topic is being discussed on the list, and you have your own opinions on the
>matter, which are to be found on your site, then it is worth speaking up.
>Sharing a little 'expert' knowledge should hopefully draw potential
>customers, without having to directly plug a product on a list. Bob
>Nuckolls and Jim Weir are others who have expertise in their fields, and
>participate publicly in newsgroups or e-mail lists.
>
>Take care,
>
>
>Peter Chapman
>Toronto, ON
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric on a Budget... a proposal |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
>bob
>i to am planning an all electric IFR panel, what is wrong with 2 odessy
>batteries, 1 being on standby incase of an emergency. if the altinator
fails,
>the 1st battery will drain, then switch to the 2nd battery to get to the
>nearest airport. with the size of the odessy battery, i think 2 will fit in
>the battery box vans provides.
>is my thinking in error?
It doesn't sound like you've read the information I've
published on electrical system reliability. If you're
even considering all electric, then can the second battery
and put a 3.5# alternator where the vacuum pump came out.
This will be lighter and much more reliable . . . furhter,
what ever you do, we can design a system that never has
you "looking for the nearest airport" . . . only Cessna
drivers have to do that.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Knight <knightair(at)lv.rmci.net> |
| Subject: | Knight Upholstery for RV |
RV Builders:
I have moved to Las Vegas. Please note my new telephone number and e-mail
address.
I have been in the upholstery business for 28 years and have been making
upholstery products for kitplanes for 16 years. I have interior kits
available for RV-4, RV-6, RV-6A, and RV-8. I also have cabin covers and
other items. I am the supplier of upholstery products for several kitplane
manufacturers. A list of other kitplane interior products available upon
request.
For more information, call Knight Aircraft Interiors, Inc., at (702)
207-6681 or e-mail me at knightair(at)lv.rmci.net. If you e- mail for
information, please mention either "Knight" or "Upholstery" in your
reference line so I can give your request my immediate attention. Photos
available upon request.
Sincerely,
KNIGHT AIRCRAFT INTERIORS, INC.
"Fly by Knight" Upholstery Products
Sam Knight
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Wiring Runs |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>Yes it would work great but the idea is to short out the wire to ground
>where the spark will not be able to do any dammage. This a preventative
>measure to take for the worst case senario where a wire rubs itself down to
>a bare spot. If it is in a grounded metal tube the fuse will immediatly blow
>and prevent further sparkage. If it is in a plastic tube it will continue to
>conduct current until a later event/fire. I would rather the fuse popped as
>soon as the wire began to seriously deterriorate.
Keep in mind that MOST single engine airplanes flying today
have PVC or worse insulation (cotton over rubber) insulation.
Our experience with limited life insulation combined with
poor installation or maintenance practice. I work closely
with the technical service reps for Raytheon (Beechcraft)
products and in a recent query of the ones I know. Not one
had encountered a problem with "wires rubbed through". Now,
there were wires that got pinched when the bundles were not
properly guarded while installing other equipment. How much
equipment in the wings will get maintenance that puts
a modern tefzel wire at risk?
Nylaflo tubing is semi-rigid but allows easy installation
such that conduit contours clear hardware and structure
in the wing yet it's very smooth inside for pushing in new
wires. Being smooth means it's not going to wear on a tefzel
insulated wire either. Wiring so installed is a very low
risk concern. I think you're more likely to fling a prop
than to get a wear induced fault inside a plastic conduit.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bramsec <bramsec(at)idirect.com> |
Just finished a WigWag System for landing and taxi lights using an auto
signal flasher and
relay, works great. The problem is a clicking noise through the radio as
the flasher does its work. How can I supress this electrical noise,
possibly diode/capacitor ?
regards Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Wing Wiring Runs - long |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>What if the short is not a hard short, but resistive and heats up the wire
>just enough to melt
>the insulation on adjacent wires in the bundle and smokes some other goodies
>?
>In a plastic conduit, the wire rubbing might never have cause to short out.
>I've seen a lot of expensive components blow up and save the fuse!
>I personally wouldn't use this as a fail safe method, but that's just my
>opinion.
This touches on the reason we don't put fuses or other circuit
protection in battery cables that run from tail to engine on
small aluminum airplanes. Any fault in a main feeder will draw
so much current that it burns away the edge of the offending
structure without causing a lot of damage or failing the electrical
system. Small wires due to their larger resistance are more prone
to extended arcing combined with heating that damages adjacent wires.
It is possible to ground fault a wire and get lots of heating
at current values too low to open the circuit protection.
It's rare but the physics for its occurance is sound. The
best elixir against this condition is modern wire insulations,
adequate support of wires and (this is where the plastic
tubing comes in) strong isolation between the conductor and
a potential ground. I'd have no problem with shoving my wires
down a plastic conduit to get them out to the wingtips.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
| Subject: | Re: Wing Wiring Runs |
Thanks Bob, I show my inexperience when posting stuff like this. It is
reasuring to hear you say that wires last a long time. Tefzel is good and I
shouldn't worry so much.......Thanks again..........Norman..............
> Keep in mind that MOST single engine airplanes flying today
> have PVC or worse insulation (cotton over rubber) insulation.
> Our experience with limited life insulation combined with
> poor installation or maintenance practice. I work closely
> with the technical service reps for Raytheon (Beechcraft)
> products and in a recent query of the ones I know. Not one
> had encountered a problem with "wires rubbed through". Now,
> there were wires that got pinched when the bundles were not
> properly guarded while installing other equipment. How much
> equipment in the wings will get maintenance that puts
> a modern tefzel wire at risk?
>
> Nylaflo tubing is semi-rigid but allows easy installation
> such that conduit contours clear hardware and structure
> in the wing yet it's very smooth inside for pushing in new
> wires. Being smooth means it's not going to wear on a tefzel
> insulated wire either. Wiring so installed is a very low
> risk concern. I think you're more likely to fling a prop
> than to get a wear induced fault inside a plastic conduit.
>
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
| Subject: | Re: ? mounting the VHF & Transpdr ant |
OK, the transponder antenna is going out in the wind. I want my aircraft
showing up on TCAS and Radar as brite as possible. I'll put it off center
below the baggage compartment. One lister indicated that the exhaust will
eventually dirty it to a point where it won't work very well. I believe TCAS
is coming to general aviation and I will welcome it with open arms. We
should all buy them if they get the price down to $1000.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
> >Has any one put their transponder antenna (the small steel shaft one)
under
> >the cowl?
> Like GPS that wants to see as much "sky" as possible, the
> transponder needs to be "in the clear" too.
>
> Of course, you can try it anywhere and see how much complaining
> you get from folks on the ground . . . transponders are after
> all, support for ATC . . . they don't help you fly or navigate.
>
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
I'm setting up my home-made dimpler and was wondering how much room do I
need to allow for clearance on both sides. How wide is the material you end
up dimpling that you need to have room for? My biggest concern is when I
come to the wings and possibly the fuselage. I don't want to build my
counter-space and have my dimpler too close to the corner.
Greg Tanner
RV-9A Empennage
SER #90186 N80BR RESERVED
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
Greg and others: I suggest that you do not have a *fixed* location for your
homemade dimpler. I assume that you are talking about the C-Frame tool.
You will be dimpling skins such as your RV-9A H. Stab where you have to hold
the upper skin out of the way of the mallet while you position the lower
skin for the hole. You may need to slide the tool around in order to
position the skin for ease of use. I built a 2" x4" frame with an MDF
surface which the C-Frame sits in. The tool is easy to slide around to suit
the skin - and so the run-out portion gives steady support for the
particular situaton. When set up well you can be dimple a whole row of holes
VERY QUICKLY.
Ernest Kells
RV-9A - Building Wings EAA: #430137
Plan: O-235/Wood Prop RAA:
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario Email:
ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca
>
> I'm setting up my home-made dimpler and was wondering how much room do I
> need to allow for clearance on both sides. How wide is the material you
end
> up dimpling that you need to have room for? My biggest concern is when I
> come to the wings and possibly the fuselage. I don't want to build my
> counter-space and have my dimpler too close to the corner.
>
> Greg Tanner
> RV-9A Empennage
> SER #90186 N80BR RESERVED
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Infinity Grips |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>Hi all
>
>I would like to jump in if I may, here is how I did it and it's working
>great.
>
>I used the same system that most of you are talking about with one addition
>, I used a third small switch that I mounted sideways on my instrument panel
>and labeled it flaps pilot and co-pilot. It's wired in after the two flap
>stickgrip switches and decides wich one will get the ground required for the
>relay to close. I did it that way because I was worried that at one time or
>an other I would forget to check the other stick grip and activate the down
>selection while the other would still be in the up position since that
>position on mine is not spring loaded back to the center position.
>
>I would love to draw it for you but since i'm not very good at this on a
>computer maybe "Electric Bob" could do that for us.
>
>Thanks in advance and hope this helps.
A pilot selector switch is certainly an option but
if the stick grip switches are not spring loaded to
center-off, then you need limit switches in the system
to make sure the motor shuts off at travel extremes.
If the switches are spring loaded, then you can use them
in parallel and when wired per the published diagram,
there's no fault created if contrary commands are input
at. This negates the need for a third switch -and- limit
switches . . . lower parts count, higher reliability.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Landing gear and wheel installation |
I am at this point also and in following Scotts sugestion, I need two
washers on the head and two washers on the nut to keep this piece from
bottoming out on the bolt. The problen is that there are no threads showing
out the end of the nut. This bothers me. When I only use one washer under
the nut, I can still rotate the allen bolt with FIRM pressure.
Ross
---
Date: Sep 17, 2000 Subject:
RE: Landing gear and wheel installation From:
Scott R McDaniels
Just in the process of installing my wheels to my landing gear. There's
one
thing that is confusing me. I don't have access to part numbers right
now
so I will try to explain. The axle on the landing gear comes with a
flange
that the Cleavland brake mounts to. An Allen head bolt goes through this
flange and through the axle and is secured with a nut. Only it appears
that
this allen head bolt is too long. The shank sticks out quite a bit
leaving
the threaded portion quite a bit above the axle. The plans just say to
put
a nut on it but the nut won't contact the axle. Does that make sense?
Anybody got any advice (or opinions?)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
A revision was written on this a short time ago (while the RV-9A proto
was being final assembled; see, we try and keep double checking drawings
and construction manual info).
Use 1 or 2 AN960 washers under the socket head of the bolt to space the
bolt so that shank is through the whole assembly. Then use washer(s) as
required at the nut end to prevent the nut from bottoming out on the bolt
shank.
Scott McDaniels
North Plains, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGray67968(at)AOL.COM |
FYI....the following ad was placed on this morning:
3 BLADE AEROBATIC MT- PROP FOR SALE!! New never run. MTV-9-B/C-188-18A prop
for sale. Ideal prop for Lyc AEIO360 and some AEIO540 applications. In
original shipping container from MT-Propeller. Contact Lin Oakley located
Wilson NC USA. Telephone: 252-290-1437. -- Posted 14 October 2000 -- Show all
Ads posted by this Advertiser
With all the talk on this prop I thought "inquiring minds would like to know"
Rick Gray 6QB (Ohio) beautiful day at the Buffalo Farm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Landing gear and wheel installation |
Either use a low profile NAS nut or add one more thin washer on the head end
so you only have one washer. OR use a thick and a thin on the head so that
you can get the proper thread exposure with one or two washers. Or add use
a thin and a thick on the nut end. There may combinations of thick and
thin washers and various style nuts. The thread exposure is to facilitate
easy inspection.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 12:52 PM
Subject: RV-List: RE: Landing gear and wheel installation
>
> I am at this point also and in following Scotts sugestion, I need two
> washers on the head and two washers on the nut to keep this piece from
> bottoming out on the bolt. The problen is that there are no threads
showing
> out the end of the nut. This bothers me. When I only use one washer
under
> the nut, I can still rotate the allen bolt with FIRM pressure.
>
> Ross
>
> ---
> Date: Sep 17, 2000 Subject:
> RE: Landing gear and wheel installation From:
> Scott R McDaniels
>
>
> Just in the process of installing my wheels to my landing gear. There's
> one
> thing that is confusing me. I don't have access to part numbers right
> now
> so I will try to explain. The axle on the landing gear comes with a
> flange
> that the Cleavland brake mounts to. An Allen head bolt goes through this
> flange and through the axle and is secured with a nut. Only it appears
> that
> this allen head bolt is too long. The shank sticks out quite a bit
> leaving
> the threaded portion quite a bit above the axle. The plans just say to
> put
> a nut on it but the nut won't contact the axle. Does that make sense?
> Anybody got any advice (or opinions?)
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> A revision was written on this a short time ago (while the RV-9A proto
> was being final assembled; see, we try and keep double checking drawings
> and construction manual info).
>
> Use 1 or 2 AN960 washers under the socket head of the bolt to space the
> bolt so that shank is through the whole assembly. Then use washer(s) as
> required at the nut end to prevent the nut from bottoming out on the bolt
> shank.
>
>
> Scott McDaniels
> North Plains, OR
> These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
> reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)ticnet.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6A Nose Wheel Flat |
Yesterday, while taxiing the short distance from the turnup area to the
runway for takeoff, the nose wheel suddenly became square. From this
incident I have learned a few things...
1. Always carry in the cockpit a valve extension; a small screwdrive
would be nice to have also to remove the pant plug for valve access.
The FBO who was alerted of my problem by the tower brought an air
bottle. I had told the tower that a valve extension would be required.
The air bottle had a long angle extension...no good! So the fuel truck
returned to the hangar to send a tow tug.
2. A tow tug is no good for the RV-6A. The plane cannot be towed with
the flat tire so the nose wheel must be lifted and cradled for tow. But
the wheel cannot be cradled without extensive pant damage; additionally,
there is no hard point for the tow strap.
After sending the tug back to the barn the air bottle reappeared with a
straight extension. Air was installed but a hisss was heard so taxi
back to the hangar was brisk. The tire was flat again before I could
get the plane in the hangar.
3. It takes at least two strong individuals to back a plane with a flat
nose wheel into the hangar. A couple of us kept the nose wheel off the
ground by pushing down and back on the hor stab while a couple of
helpers pushed on the wings. Easy with four!
4. Reason for flat may not be found. Upon disassembly it was found
that the tube had what appeared to be a puncture hole in its sidewall
but nothing was found in the tire to indicate its source. Had the hole
been on the tread, it might be suspected that a nail had inflicted the
damage and pulled out, but how could this happen on the side wall?
5. Keep a spare tube available. The 11.400-5 tube, nor the tire, are
available from my local aircraft parts store since that size is not used
on certified airplanes. Order has been place with Spruce and I am
grounded for a week.
6. Beware of scallops! In spite of what passes for 'due care', tubes
have been scalloped when tightening the wheels halves together. This
was the second occurrence for us and we felt we were being careful! Is
there a foolproof method to ensure the tube is not protruding between
the wheel halves when bolting them together? We tried visual inspection
to no avail...will an inspection mirror work effectively? We aired the
tube but then released the air for fear the inflated tube would bulge
between the wheel halves.
Our local tire store said they could not patch the tube because it was
too thin. So we applied a bicycle tube patch for temporary use. The
scallop episode ended the sad life of the tube.
I would like to know how to avoid scalloping...what say ye?
The carcass of the flat tire was against the underside of the pant. It
is obvious that had I become airborne before the tire deflated, the pant
would have been destroyed upon landing, the tire shreaded, and
directional control may have been difficult. Has anyone landed an RV
with a flat tire? How was directional control and what was the damage?
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas
-6A flying past 190 hours but grounded
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A Nose Wheel Flat |
Some use a ring of thin plastic or cardboard around the hub so the tube
can't get between the halves of the wheel.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will Cretsinger" <cretsinger(at)ticnet.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 2:45 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-6A Nose Wheel Flat
>
> Yesterday, while taxiing the short distance from the turnup area to the
> runway for takeoff, the nose wheel suddenly became square. From this
> incident I have learned a few things...
>
> 1. Always carry in the cockpit a valve extension; a small screwdrive
> would be nice to have also to remove the pant plug for valve access.
> The FBO who was alerted of my problem by the tower brought an air
> bottle. I had told the tower that a valve extension would be required.
> The air bottle had a long angle extension...no good! So the fuel truck
> returned to the hangar to send a tow tug.
>
> 2. A tow tug is no good for the RV-6A. The plane cannot be towed with
> the flat tire so the nose wheel must be lifted and cradled for tow. But
> the wheel cannot be cradled without extensive pant damage; additionally,
> there is no hard point for the tow strap.
>
> After sending the tug back to the barn the air bottle reappeared with a
> straight extension. Air was installed but a hisss was heard so taxi
> back to the hangar was brisk. The tire was flat again before I could
> get the plane in the hangar.
>
> 3. It takes at least two strong individuals to back a plane with a flat
> nose wheel into the hangar. A couple of us kept the nose wheel off the
> ground by pushing down and back on the hor stab while a couple of
> helpers pushed on the wings. Easy with four!
>
> 4. Reason for flat may not be found. Upon disassembly it was found
> that the tube had what appeared to be a puncture hole in its sidewall
> but nothing was found in the tire to indicate its source. Had the hole
> been on the tread, it might be suspected that a nail had inflicted the
> damage and pulled out, but how could this happen on the side wall?
>
> 5. Keep a spare tube available. The 11.400-5 tube, nor the tire, are
> available from my local aircraft parts store since that size is not used
> on certified airplanes. Order has been place with Spruce and I am
> grounded for a week.
>
> 6. Beware of scallops! In spite of what passes for 'due care', tubes
> have been scalloped when tightening the wheels halves together. This
> was the second occurrence for us and we felt we were being careful! Is
> there a foolproof method to ensure the tube is not protruding between
> the wheel halves when bolting them together? We tried visual inspection
> to no avail...will an inspection mirror work effectively? We aired the
> tube but then released the air for fear the inflated tube would bulge
> between the wheel halves.
>
> Our local tire store said they could not patch the tube because it was
> too thin. So we applied a bicycle tube patch for temporary use. The
> scallop episode ended the sad life of the tube.
>
> I would like to know how to avoid scalloping...what say ye?
>
> The carcass of the flat tire was against the underside of the pant. It
> is obvious that had I become airborne before the tire deflated, the pant
> would have been destroyed upon landing, the tire shreaded, and
> directional control may have been difficult. Has anyone landed an RV
> with a flat tire? How was directional control and what was the damage?
>
> Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas
> -6A flying past 190 hours but grounded
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | O360A1A Dipstick Calibration |
I initially poured in 7 qts of oil into my Bart's O360A1A with C/S prop
,Positech oil cooler and CH48110 filter. The oil was very viscous (Shell
100) and clinging to the dipstick extension tube so I couldn't get a good
calibration of dipstick markings at the time.
After first ground run and cycling the prop, I now read 4 qts exactly on the
dipstick. It seems like 3 qts is too much for the prop hub, hoses, cooler
and filter, so I wonder if my dipstick calibration is off.
I'd appreciate it if someone with a similar engine and calibrated dipstick
would measure:
1) Distance from dipstick screw-in part's lower surface to the 4 qt mark.
2) Length of plastic dipstick extension from engine boss to top surface
where dipstick abuts.
Thanks!
Dennis Persyk N600DP
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | RV-6 Crash/Rudder Pedal Failure |
A buddy of mine who built, flew, then sold his RV-6 a couple of years ago got
a telephone call from the NTSB yesterday. They were investigating following
the aircraft's crash last Thursday.
The RV-6 he built crashed on landing after the right rudder pedal on the
pilot's side failed in "the flare" in a crosswind landing. The airplane is
probably totaled, but the pilot is fine. The airplane was built and sold
before Van's issued the fix kit and service bulletin for the rudder pedal
modification. The service bulletin was never complied with by the new owner
(or his A/P at the conditional inspection).
I've talked with some local builders (myself included) who scoffed at this
service bulletin. It may be time for a re-think.
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Hobenshield <edhob(at)kermode.net> |
>
>2) MOST IMPORTANT PART Do any of you know of a nice clean RV-4 that may be
>for sale. Doesn't have to be a show winner. Basic with a low to mid time
>engine is more important than fancy avionics.
>
>Please respond off list.
>
>Best regards,
>
Don
Would like to help but, have a 6 needing a good home.
Ed Hobenshield
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Crash/Rudder Pedal Failure |
Kyle:
This accident occurred at my home airport, Lake Elmo, MN. I was not there
at the time and did not see it, but a friend did say the airplane was
extensively damaged. I have not talked with the current owner since this
accident, but I do recall the airplane and casually talked with him a year
or so ago when he purchased the airplane.
Regardless, RV-6 owners should be well aware of this critical Service
Bulletin. On of our local builders had his rudder pedal fail in exactly the
same way several years ago. The only thing that saved him was the fact that
we was just slowly turning off the runway at the time and only did a very
slow ground loop with no damage. This RV-6 was an older model with the
"floor" mounted rudder pedals. There are actually two Van's SB pertaining
to potential rudder pedal failures:
SB 99-06-01 (overhead rudder pedals)
SB 98-03-01 (floor mounted rudder pedals)
Details are at Van's web site. Personally I cannot emphasize enough the
importance of complying with these SBs.
Doug Weiler
pres, MN Wing
================
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
>
> A buddy of mine who built, flew, then sold his RV-6 a couple of years ago
got
> a telephone call from the NTSB yesterday. They were investigating
following
> the aircraft's crash last Thursday.
>
> The RV-6 he built crashed on landing after the right rudder pedal on the
> pilot's side failed in "the flare" in a crosswind landing. The airplane
is
> probably totaled, but the pilot is fine. The airplane was built and sold
> before Van's issued the fix kit and service bulletin for the rudder pedal
> modification. The service bulletin was never complied with by the new
owner
> (or his A/P at the conditional inspection).
>
> I've talked with some local builders (myself included) who scoffed at this
> service bulletin. It may be time for a re-think.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prepunched firewall edge distances |
Jeff,
Mine was the same way. It acts as a spacer just as you thought so the outer
pieces need the edge distance.
Forge on!
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
-6 fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Orear <jorear(at)mari.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 8:13 PM
Subject: RV-List: Prepunched firewall edge distances
>
> Hello All:
>
> I too just got my fuse kit and am ready to start drilling my firewall.
> Trouble is I see that there are holes that have been predrilled in the
> WD602-R and WD602-L that lie right over the junction of the F601C spacer
and
> F601B. In other words, if I were to drill through the WD602-R or L, I
would
> end up with a half of a hole in the F601C and half a hole in the F601B.
> Either I just forge ahead and drill, realizing that the F601C in
particular
> is a spacer and is sandwiched between the firewall and the WD602-R or L,
or
> I drill a new hole in the WD602-R or L to avoid these half holes (nothing
> worse than a bunch of half-holes!!)
>
> Has anyone else noticed this? Thanks in advance gang.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A
> fuse
> Peshtigo, WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 panel planning |
> IFR panel, so lots of "stuff" has to get into the panel. I
> notice that pictures in the RVator show most such panels with an add
> on "sub panel" under the panel for such things as switches, etc.
> Seems very constricting to me for leg room, getting in and out, etc.
> and I would as soon avoid such a step. Good idea, bad idea?
My advice would be to get dimensions for the stuff you want and make up a
mock-up of your panel out of thin plywood or thin scrap AL and and see if it
will all fit without modification. If it will, great. Otherwise an
alternative to the subpanel would be making a larger panel. It's only a
sheet of AL with a bend in the bottom, you should be able to find someone
with a brake to make one that goes a little lower. The advantage to this is
that if it turns out you only need 1/2" or 3/4" extra to fit everything then
you can, whereas adding a subpanel pretty much means you have to make it big
enough to fit the switches in. Also the subpanel would be limited to small
stuff like switches whereas a larger panel would give you the flexibility to
expand into that space however you need to.
I avoided doing this but I have a friend who made a new panel that extends
about 1" lower (I think) and I've sat in it and don't notice the difference
as far as leg room is concerned. (You can see my "light IFR" panel at
http://www.edt.com/homewing/rhproject/instp.html.
> 3) With an IFR panel, the DG would have to go in the middle on top to
> be "standard". This causes something of a conflict with the panel rib
> in that location, since the DG is about 6+ inches long. How do folks
> get around that problem?
I _think_ I did "Standard" which is AH at the middle top, DG below that...
right? In any case I have a slider, and I put that just to the left of the
rib and it comes out close enough to center to be fine. I think I've seen
people put it to the right of the rib with similar results. Regardless,
there's not much way around it unless you go down real low with it which
isn't too good either.
> I have made good use of Panel Planner software in designing mine - some
> folks have had less-than-good results.
Yeah I used it and wouldn't trust it for anything other than "what if"
scenarios, especially if you're trying to fit a lot into the panel. The
measurements just aren't accurate enough IMHO.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barrys <barrys(at)viconet.com> |
| Subject: | H frame wire and plumb bobs |
> Matronics Email List Administrator
> -- dralle(at)matronics.com
> --
> --
>
>
> >
> > What are you fellows using for for the wire that goes across the H frame
> > top? I have a brass (heavy) plumb bob from Home Depot. I have a turn
> > buckle and 2 long threaded eye bolts. I am using a coil of steel wire
> > that is used for hanging suspended ceiling, also bought at HD. No
> > matter what I do. the wire sags about 3/16 of an inch when the bob is at
> > the center of the run. I started with all the mechanical stuff
> > 'stretched' and the wire tight. Then I crank don the eye bolts and the
> > turn buckle, to no avail. Is the wire stretching?
> >
> > Should I use a lighter bob?
> >
> > Barry
> > rv9a starting on the tail. wings already here!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Crash/Rudder Pedal Failure |
In a message dated 10/14/00 8:48:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com writes:
> > The RV-6 he built crashed on landing after the right rudder pedal on the
> > pilot's side failed in "the flare" in a crosswind landing. The airplane
> is
> > probably totaled, but the pilot is fine. The airplane was built and sold
> > before Van's issued the fix kit and service bulletin for the rudder pedal
> > modification. The service bulletin was never complied with by the new
> owner
> > (or his A/P at the conditional inspection).
> >
> > I've talked with some local builders (myself included) who scoffed at
this
> > service bulletin. It may be time for a re-think.
We had a overhead mounted 6 that had a break that was discovered on the
ground. It is supposedly the one that caused Van to issue the bulletin on the
top mounted pedals. Many locals attributed this particular breakage to the
fact that he was a large older man and he pushed against both pedals as he
initially started his egress from the cockpit. Do not know if this was a
contributing factor, but may be worth thinking about as you and your
passenger egress.
Bernie Kerr, 6A 50 hours and depressed over the progress being made getting
it painted,SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Crash/Rudder Pedal Failure |
> On of our local builders had his rudder pedal fail in
> exactly the
> same way several years ago.
Ditto here in Central Texas. Had a -6 with floor mounted pedals have
one of his pedals break on approach to his home grass strip.
He was able to go around, hop over to the right seat and landed fine
from there.
Food for thought!
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Fuselage
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <Emrath(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prepunched firewall edge distances |
I ended up with Half holes in mine also. RV6A. Van's tech support put me at
ease. Just proceed on as it is sandwiched in there. Make sure you deburr the
holes good with a file before riveting. Mr. McDaniels, any other advice?
Marty in Brentwood TN
RV6A Fuselage in jig, no time to build.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)mari.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 8:13 PM
Subject: RV-List: Prepunched firewall edge distances
>
> Hello All:
>
> I too just got my fuse kit and am ready to start drilling my firewall.
> Trouble is I see that there are holes that have been predrilled in the
> WD602-R and WD602-L that lie right over the junction of the F601C spacer
and
> F601B. In other words, if I were to drill through the WD602-R or L, I
would
> end up with a half of a hole in the F601C and half a hole in the F601B.
> Either I just forge ahead and drill, realizing that the F601C in
particular
> is a spacer and is sandwiched between the firewall and the WD602-R or L,
or
> I drill a new hole in the WD602-R or L to avoid these half holes (nothing
> worse than a bunch of half-holes!!)
>
> Has anyone else noticed this? Thanks in advance gang.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A
> fuse
> Peshtigo, WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: H frame wire and plumb bobs |
>> >
>> > What are you fellows using for for the wire that goes across the H frame
>> > top? I have a brass (heavy) plumb bob from Home Depot. I have a turn
>> > buckle and 2 long threaded eye bolts. I am using a coil of steel wire
>> > that is used for hanging suspended ceiling, also bought at HD. No
>> > matter what I do. the wire sags about 3/16 of an inch when the bob is at
>> > the center of the run. I started with all the mechanical stuff
>> > 'stretched' and the wire tight. Then I crank don the eye bolts and the
>> > turn buckle, to no avail. Is the wire stretching?
>> >
>> > Should I use a lighter bob?
>> >
>> > Barry
>> > rv9a starting on the tail. wings already here!
> > >
> > >
Well, I have to admit I didn't string a wire over the top. I just
used an old fashioned level in the vertical position when required.
I don't see any problem if your plumb bob support wire sags a bit.
The purpose of the thing is to establish a series of vertical lines
all in the same plane. The fact that it has sagged a bit due to
gravity doesn't invalidate what it is doing, as the verticals are all
established using gravity anyway. Press on.
Take care,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 95% done)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: H frame wire and plumb bobs |
I used a very small diameter braided wire that is used mostly for hanging
pictures. I think about 15 or 20 feet of it was coiled up in a plastic bag
at Home Depot. It will stretch as tight as a string.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
-6 fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: barrys <barrys(at)viconet.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 7:00 AM
Subject: RV-List: H frame wire and plumb bobs
>
> > Matronics Email List Administrator
> > -- dralle(at)matronics.com
> > --
> > --
> >
> >
> > >
> > > What are you fellows using for for the wire that goes across the H
frame
> > > top? I have a brass (heavy) plumb bob from Home Depot. I have a turn
> > > buckle and 2 long threaded eye bolts. I am using a coil of steel wire
> > > that is used for hanging suspended ceiling, also bought at HD. No
> > > matter what I do. the wire sags about 3/16 of an inch when the bob is
at
> > > the center of the run. I started with all the mechanical stuff
> > > 'stretched' and the wire tight. Then I crank don the eye bolts and
the
> > > turn buckle, to no avail. Is the wire stretching?
> > >
> > > Should I use a lighter bob?
> > >
> > > Barry
> > > rv9a starting on the tail. wings already here!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-------------------
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Lancaster Seminar Date Set |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
The Lancaster weekend seminar date has been set at Nov 18/19, 2000.
Facilities arrangments are being finalized and folks that have already
signed up will be asked to re-confirm their reservations and to watch
the website for published driving directions to the program facility
along with a list of nearyby motels for those who need them.
Anyone who has not considered taking advantage of this program (or
others around the country like it) are invited to check out the
seminars description and sign-up page at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/seminars.html
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Winters <dtw_rv6(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A Nose Wheel Flat |
> would have been destroyed upon landing, the tire
> shreaded, and
> directional control may have been difficult. Has
> anyone landed an RV
> with a flat tire? How was directional control and
> what was the damage?
I have always been taught that the nosewheel is only
useful for holding the front of a tricycle up after
landing. I don't have any stick time in an RV yet,
but the 172 I fly slows down long before the nose
wheel drops to the ground.
About the only time I use brakes is for maneuvering
after landing.
Under these circumstances, a nose-wheel flat might
result in a trip off to the side of the runway, but it
shouldn't be too exciting.
Does an RV (low wing) have very effective aerodynamic
braking? I don't have any time in low-wings.
Don Winters
Wings
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Ludwig" <ludwig(at)azstarnet.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder pedal slider adjustment |
I have the floor mounted RV-8 rudder pedals and wonder what you guys are
using for a bolt or pin on the slider adjustment. There are holes ever inch
along the tube, and I'd rather use some type of quick release pin, rather
than a bolt. Don't see either on the plans and nothing in the archive.
- Bill in Tucson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Wheel Pant Alignment |
What are your secrets for aligning the front and back of the wheel fairings
with the centerline of the plane?
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Knight <knightair(at)lv.rmci.net> |
| Subject: | RV-9 in Las Vegas or Henderson, NV |
RV Builders,
I am looking for anyone in the Las Vegas/Henderson NV area who is building
an RV-9. Please contact me at (702) 207-6681 or e-mail: knightair(at)lv.rmci.net
Sincerely,
Sam Knight
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Haan <bhaan(at)easystreet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WigWag Noise |
Peter,
I decided to add WigWag the day six of us were watching a plane with
wigwagging leading edge lights approach for landing and noted how visible
it was. Then, a second plane, in line with the first plane but much closer
to us, banked to enter down wind. We were shocked because all six of us
would have collided with this plane.
I bought a Gall's Solid State Flasher. I made a temporary hook-up on the
bench and discovered that it was not solid state but relays that I could
hear opening and closing.
I wanted the leading edge lights to be independent, or redundant, of each
other so that should a wire short, a fuse blow, etc. I would have one light
left to land with.
Using the Gall's, the only way I could make it redundant was to install two
relays. I did install this system and it operated correctly providing Left
Light ON, Right Light ON, Both ON and WigWag ON. Although it functioned the
way I wanted, I did not think this was the right solution.
AS a result, I worked with a friend and very good electronics engineer to
designed a unit with the features of redundancy, easy to install and wire,
use any type of switch by switching only milli-amps, many switch
arrangements and switch types and other features plus flexibility in that
the builder can decide which features to use. An example of this
flexibility is the unit detects a burned out bulb and has right and left
outputs to drive LEDs or other alarms and the builder can choose to; 1. Not
use. 2. Connect the two alarms together and then connect them to one alarm
or LED that would signal a bulb failure but not which one. 3. Use both
outputs for Left and the Right alarms or LEDs.
We connected the Galls to a scope and saw as many as 8 switch bounces as
the relays opened and closed. These bounces can produce Radio Frequency noise.
To see a picture of the WigWag Solid Sate Controller, WSSC and read an
Acrobat data sheet that describes many more features and has the details
needed to design the WSSC into your system or easily add it to your system
go to
http://www.easystreet.com/~bhaan/
We have had an engineering prototype running since March without failure.
We began taking orders a few weeks ago.
Bob
>
>Just finished a WigWag System for landing and taxi lights using an auto
>signal flasher and
>relay, works great. The problem is a clicking noise through the radio as
>the flasher does its work. How can I supress this electrical noise,
>possibly diode/capacitor ?
>
>regards Peter
Bob Haan
RV6A installing Windscreen
Mobile 503-720-1132
14270 SW Koven Court
Tigard, OR 97224
http://www.easystreet.com/~bhaan/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Special AUTOCAD offer to our friends on the lists . . . |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
If you'd like to get your feet wet with the world's most
popular PC based CAD system REALLY cheap, check out . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/acadr12.html
This will stay up on the website for a few days only and
is not linked by any other pages on the internet.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Crash/Rudder Pedal Failure |
"marcel de ruiter"
> I've talked with some local builders (myself included) who scoffed at this
> service bulletin. It may be time for a re-think.
I am aware that some guys at your side of the atlantic say these planes are
experimental and we can do what we want or desire, but I do believe that
ignoring a SB from your designer has not much to do with experimental or
common sense.
I do not have any sympathy for these type of people, but I do have sympathy
for those who are left behind , get caught up in an accident or simply those
who built and fly RV's and comply with SB's and subsequently end up paying
skyhigh insurance premiums due to the ignorance of some members of the
RV-family.
Marcel de Ruiter
RV4/G-RVMJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcbraem(at)home.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wheel Pant Alignment |
1. mark the centerline of the front & rear of the gear leg fairings
(glf) and wheel pants (wp).
2. using a pair of wing jacks and a sturdy saw horse for the tail, take
the weight off of the main gear and level the aircraft side to side and
front to back using the canopy side rails.
3. mark the center line of the front and rear of the fuselage and hang
plumb bobs and mark the floor and connect the dots.
4. draw parallel lines 2 feet on each side of the center line in the
gear leg area (about 6 feet long and as accurate as possible).
5. lightly attach the glf to the gear legs.
6. place a 4 foot level on milk crates or the equivalent next to the glf/wp.
7. level the level with spacers on the milk crates.
8. use plumb bobs, again, to align the level with the floor line.
9. place weights on the level so it can't be bumped out of position.
10. now, recheck everything.
11. use 6 inch or so ruler to measure from the edge of the level to the
center of the leading and trailing edges of the glf/wp. for the wp's,
the level may need to be on a lower platform than the milk crates.
12. adjust glf/wp as necessary so the leading and trailing edges are an
equal distance from the level.
13. recheck, again.
(courtesy of Tracy Saylor RV Speed Mods)
Boyd
RV-S6
Note: some people just eyeball it.
>
>
> What are your secrets for aligning the front and back of the wheel fairings
> with the centerline of the plane?
>
> Ross
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob DiMeo - Oracle <dimeob(at)powertel.com.au> |
| Subject: | H frame wire and plumb bobs |
Barry,
Don't worry about the sag of the wire. The important thing is that it is
directly over the line you scribe in the H frame cross beam and that your
hinge pins are exactly on that line. I used four plumb bobs. One at each tip
and one at each inside edge of the skin. I adjusted the length of the string
on the bob until it just touched the skins. Worked great.
Bob
> ----------
> From: barrys
> Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 10:00 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: H frame wire and plumb bobs
>
>
> > Matronics Email List Administrator
> > -- dralle(at)matronics.com
> > --
> > --
> >
> >
> > >
> > > What are you fellows using for for the wire that goes across the H
> frame
> > > top? I have a brass (heavy) plumb bob from Home Depot. I have a turn
> > > buckle and 2 long threaded eye bolts. I am using a coil of steel wire
> > > that is used for hanging suspended ceiling, also bought at HD. No
> > > matter what I do. the wire sags about 3/16 of an inch when the bob is
> at
> > > the center of the run. I started with all the mechanical stuff
> > > 'stretched' and the wire tight. Then I crank don the eye bolts and
> the
> > > turn buckle, to no avail. Is the wire stretching?
> > >
> > > Should I use a lighter bob?
> > >
> > > Barry
> > > rv9a starting on the tail. wings already here!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-------------------
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob DiMeo - Oracle <dimeob(at)powertel.com.au> |
| Subject: | O360A1A Dipstick Calibration |
This brings up a question. I'm used to reading the oil levels on tricycle
gear airplanes. With conventional gear, with the engine tilted, is there a
different dipstick? With the engine tilted, the oil will be towards the back
of the sump so the dipstick placement and it's markings would be critical in
reading the proper oil level. As an example; in a Baron there is a right and
left dipstick because the tilt of the engines shows up different for the
same oil quantity in the engines.
Bob
RV8 #423
> ----------
> From: Dennis Persyk
> Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 08:56 AM
> To: rv-list
> Subject: RV-List: O360A1A Dipstick Calibration
>
>
> I initially poured in 7 qts of oil into my Bart's O360A1A with C/S prop
> ,Positech oil cooler and CH48110 filter. The oil was very viscous (Shell
> 100) and clinging to the dipstick extension tube so I couldn't get a good
> calibration of dipstick markings at the time.
>
> After first ground run and cycling the prop, I now read 4 qts exactly on
> the
> dipstick. It seems like 3 qts is too much for the prop hub, hoses, cooler
> and filter, so I wonder if my dipstick calibration is off.
>
> I'd appreciate it if someone with a similar engine and calibrated dipstick
> would measure:
>
> 1) Distance from dipstick screw-in part's lower surface to the 4 qt mark.
>
> 2) Length of plastic dipstick extension from engine boss to top surface
> where dipstick abuts.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Dennis Persyk N600DP
> Hampshire, IL C38
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A Nose Wheel Flat |
Will, I had exactly the sme thing happen to me a few months ago, and I mean a
pinhole in the sidewall of the tube with no apparent cause, the difficulty
moving the plane, the unsuccessful attempt to re-air the tire and launch for
home (leak too fast) etc. It occurred away from home but on a friend's grass
strip. I fed in sufficient throttle to MAKE that sucker taxi off the runway!
Two helpers pushing down on the horiz. stab was enough to pop a wheelie and
allow me to get the nose wheel off for repairs. My wife was able to rescue
me by car, and I returned later with the spare tube that Vans so thoughtfully
included with the kit. The other tube was patched with a bicycle patch kit,
but I'm not sure I trust it enough to use it. No obvious trouble with
catching a tube between the wheel halves; just inflate gently and deflate
fully before running the bolts home.
I would NOT want to experience a landing with a flat nosewheel, nor withn
broken rudder pedals (I will confess to blowing off this SB; I will look into
it after what I read today).
Never did find what caused that pinhole in the side of the tire, but I
suspect running the nosewheel through some unmowed grass while doing a U-turn
on the turf strip may have been contributory (thorns??)
Bill Boyd
RV-6A O-320/FP Sensenich
Hop-Along Airfield - 12VA
Clifton Forge, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RE Miller <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fiberglass Resin and Cloth Types |
Hi Guys
The archives were not much help although I'm sure this
question has been asked before. What size cloth is
good to use for glassing in the stab tips (I'm leaning
toward 5.85 oz cloth with a plain weave)? Also, what
is the resin system of choice and how much do I need?
Is Jeffco Epoxy Laminating System a good choice? Can
one use epoxy resin over the polyester stuff used in
making the glass components?
Rob Miller
Rv-8 Finishing
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: O360A1A Dipstick Calibration |
>
> This brings up a question. I'm used to reading the oil levels on
tricycle
> gear airplanes. With conventional gear, with the engine tilted, is there a
> different dipstick? With the engine tilted, the oil will be towards the
back
> of the sump so the dipstick placement and it's markings would be critical
in
> reading the proper oil level. As an example; in a Baron there is a right
and
> left dipstick because the tilt of the engines shows up different for the
> same oil quantity in the engines.
I guess the dipsticks would be the same if the oil was checked in flight.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <pbesing(at)rmi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Resin and Cloth Types |
Go with the 2" standard weave cloth that spruce sells...one roll should be
enough for anything on your plane. Also, West Systems epoxy has been
regarded as the standard, but there are others that will suffice. Also, you
might want to get some peel ply to aid in getting a smooth finish.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/
Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "RE Miller" <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 5:26 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fiberglass Resin and Cloth Types
>
> Hi Guys
>
> The archives were not much help although I'm sure this
> question has been asked before. What size cloth is
> good to use for glassing in the stab tips (I'm leaning
> toward 5.85 oz cloth with a plain weave)? Also, what
> is the resin system of choice and how much do I need?
> Is Jeffco Epoxy Laminating System a good choice? Can
> one use epoxy resin over the polyester stuff used in
> making the glass components?
>
> Rob Miller
> Rv-8 Finishing
>
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: O360A1A Dipstick Calibration |
My engine was shipped (from Bart Lalonde at Aero Sport Power) with a blank
dipstick. I'm told the procedure is to put 6 qts into the empty engine, run
it to fill the cooler/lines/governor, and take a reading after it settles
for a few minutes. File a groove in the dipstick where the oil level is and
that is your 6 qt line. Then add 2 qts, let it settle, take a reading, and
that is your 8 qt line. Other capacities can be interpolated.
That's my plan for lack of a better one.
Randy Lervold
www.rv-8.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob DiMeo - Oracle" <dimeob(at)powertel.com.au>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 5:33 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: O360A1A Dipstick Calibration
>
>
> This brings up a question. I'm used to reading the oil levels on
tricycle
> gear airplanes. With conventional gear, with the engine tilted, is there a
> different dipstick? With the engine tilted, the oil will be towards the
back
> of the sump so the dipstick placement and it's markings would be critical
in
> reading the proper oil level. As an example; in a Baron there is a right
and
> left dipstick because the tilt of the engines shows up different for the
> same oil quantity in the engines.
>
> Bob
> RV8 #423
> > ----------
> > From: Dennis Persyk
> > Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 08:56 AM
> > To: rv-list
> > Subject: RV-List: O360A1A Dipstick Calibration
> >
> >
> > I initially poured in 7 qts of oil into my Bart's O360A1A with C/S prop
> > ,Positech oil cooler and CH48110 filter. The oil was very viscous
(Shell
> > 100) and clinging to the dipstick extension tube so I couldn't get a
good
> > calibration of dipstick markings at the time.
> >
> > After first ground run and cycling the prop, I now read 4 qts exactly on
> > the
> > dipstick. It seems like 3 qts is too much for the prop hub, hoses,
cooler
> > and filter, so I wonder if my dipstick calibration is off.
> >
> > I'd appreciate it if someone with a similar engine and calibrated
dipstick
> > would measure:
> >
> > 1) Distance from dipstick screw-in part's lower surface to the 4 qt
mark.
> >
> > 2) Length of plastic dipstick extension from engine boss to top surface
> > where dipstick abuts.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Dennis Persyk N600DP
> > Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Winters <dtw_rv6(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: -8A center section woes |
menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com wrote:
> [snip]
> bent up when I got it back. I can attest firsthand that the anodizing
> process makes the aluminum more brittle because the anodized surface on
> mine is covered with small cracks where it got bent.
Actually, anodizing does not make the aluminum brittle. It just puts a very
brittle coating on the outside of the metal. That is why I have chosen to
avoid anodizing any critical areas. The stuff shatters like glass, and leaves
raw aluminum to the atmosphere to oxidize. It looks pretty, but I'll trust
primer instead.
no flames, just my opinion :)
Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Copperstate report |
Howdy listers,
I just returned from Copperstate. Great fun! Perfect weather..couldn't ask
for better. Lots of RV's in all shapes, sizes and degrees of finish. Great
folks from the list were met, to attach faces to the names previously only
seen on my monitor. Nine of us got stranded by a hotel shuttle that never
showed up Saturday morning. So, my wife, being the resourceful gal that she
is, called up National to come pick us up to get a car. Driver shows up in
a SUBURBAN. hehe....all aboard! Driver was easily pursuaded by ready cash
at hand by a bunch of homebuilders who needed a serious airplane fix! Nice
ride that Suburban.
RV's took home some awards, Grand Champion was a Lancair with more gadgets
and doohickies stuffed in the panel than I can identify...and a FIVE blade
MT prop. Good grief man, my wallet was bleeding just from the site of it.
Beautiful airplane...truly. The builder deserves that award in a big way.
Flew out there with the guys from Front Range in Colorado. Purely by
chance. They stopped off at AEG for fuel while Deb and I were loading up my
-8. Stu, Dennis and Kent....all terrific guys with loads of humor and great
to fly with. So, instead of heading out solo, we voted (OK, RAILROADED is
more like it) Kent as lead in his awesome -8 built by Lyle Hefel. Good job
Kent...smooth lead.....easy to fly with and grooved us into Gateway with
ease. A flight of four other RV's came in after us...making for a taxiway
that looked like the LA expressway at rush hour! Guys, you haven't lived
until you taxi in to a show of this size, with HUNDREDS (thousands?) of
airplane fanatics snapping pics of you as you taxi along to park.
For those still building...do NOT stop...get it done! You WILL love your
airplane.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
142 hrs.
was that SCOTT MCDANIELS I heard singing the National Anthem??? ;)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Winters <dtw_rv6(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lexan Wing Inspection Covers Are Not Approved |
Structural or not, the only time a lexan inspection cover would be of any use
is while standing on the ground next to it. If the control is broken or
binding, I'll find it during my preflight. Lexan covers aren't necessary for
this.
If the controls jam in-flight, lexan won't do any good here either.
I think I'd be more inclined to put a little loctite on the bearing nuts, or
safety wire them in place. It's simpler, and not nearly as "dressy", but
definitely effective.
Don
Donald Mei wrote:
>
> Makes complete sense, lots of screws around perimeter effectively make that
> cover part of the wing. However, the elevator bellcrank inspection cover is
> held on with only 2 screws (right next to each other) and a slip tab. Based
> on how its attached, it could not be structural. It might make sense to
> make this out of lexan. Again, pending Van's approval. Then you could
> sight check this item in a preflight. Frankly this item is far more
> important than an aleron bellcrank anyway. I could easily land a plane with
> one non-funcitional aleron, but have a much harder time landing with no
> elevator. (Hmm, rethinkiing the aleron thing. If it broke, no problem, but
> if it broke and jammed, jamming the stick. . . .prefer not to think about
> it.)
>
> Regards,
>
> Don Mei
> (Bought it, didn't build it. So my knowledge pales in comparison to 99%of
> you.)
Why pay for something you could get for free?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Winters <dtw_rv6(at)yahoo.com> |
Larry,
I don't know you very well, but I do know that your widsom and words are
valued (at least by me). Please consider putting the policemen in you
killfile, and we will all do the same.
Don
Larry Pardue wrote:
> I'm still hanging in on this list, but just barely. When the policemen
> jump on anyone who is not talking about riveting, I have no further
> reason to spend the time. That would mean I have nothing at all to
> contribute as all my riveting is done.
>
Why pay for something you could get for free?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: H frame wire and plumb bobs |
Now is a good time to think about buying a "Smartlevel" or another digital
level. I measured the exact angle of both top and bottom skins with respect
to plumb when everything was clecoed together. It gave me a lot of
confidence that everything was lined up right before riveting.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob DiMeo - Oracle" <dimeob(at)powertel.com.au>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 6:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: H frame wire and plumb bobs
>
>
> Barry,
>
> Don't worry about the sag of the wire. The important thing is that it is
> directly over the line you scribe in the H frame cross beam and that your
> hinge pins are exactly on that line. I used four plumb bobs. One at each
tip
> and one at each inside edge of the skin. I adjusted the length of the
string
> on the bob until it just touched the skins. Worked great.
>
> Bob
> > ----------
> > From: barrys
> > Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 10:00 PM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: H frame wire and plumb bobs
> >
> >
> > > Matronics Email List Administrator
> > > -- dralle(at)matronics.com
> > > --
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > What are you fellows using for for the wire that goes across the H
> > frame
> > > > top? I have a brass (heavy) plumb bob from Home Depot. I have a
turn
> > > > buckle and 2 long threaded eye bolts. I am using a coil of steel
wire
> > > > that is used for hanging suspended ceiling, also bought at HD. No
> > > > matter what I do. the wire sags about 3/16 of an inch when the bob
is
> > at
> > > > the center of the run. I started with all the mechanical stuff
> > > > 'stretched' and the wire tight. Then I crank don the eye bolts and
> > the
> > > > turn buckle, to no avail. Is the wire stretching?
> > > >
> > > > Should I use a lighter bob?
> > > >
> > > > Barry
> > > > rv9a starting on the tail. wings already here!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >-------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mills, Trevor R" <MillsTR(at)az1.bp.com> |
| Subject: | New engine choice |
For those of us who have been waiting for something in the way of choice in
engines for our little rockets, I was told this weekend that Jabiru are
going to produce a 8 cylinder model of there Australian made engines.
This will be a 180 HP @ 2700 RPM
I have been in contact with the factory this morning and they did confirm
this however don't think we would see any for around a year (read two maybe)
He did say he would e-mail me details when they have them, but did say it
would be around 100 kgs or 220lbs.
If this engine is as good and runs as smooth as there 6 cylinder version I
will have to have one.
If there is any interest I will keep the list informed.
Trevor Mills. 80605
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New engine choice |
how much gas does this engine use, With 8-cylnders i think it would be using
alot.
Justin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: Last Chance to stop me |
I fell in love with the RV6A at Oshkosh in '97. Since then my dream is to
build and own the best kit plane on the market.
I've been lurking the list for a year, researching other sites, studying the
pre purchase plans, and convincing my wife. Now I'm ready to start. This is
the last chance to talk me out of building.
I will shortly order an RV6A QB kit. My experience is nil (never so much as
drove a rivet), but my work ethic and patience are high. Can a guy such as
me hope to succeed?
My plan at the moment is to order some aluminum sheet in various thicknesses,
some angle stock, and a riveting kit and try my hand at what seems to be the
most used skill in these projects.
MY QUESTION FOR THE DAY ....
What tool kit, from which company would you suggest for my "practice run" on
mangling metal? What should be the minimum tools I need to experiment while
I still have time to back out?
Great Gratitude is expressed here for the RV Digest. I feel like I've
learned a lot even before I start. I appreciate you guys, and hope you will
be patient with what I'm sure will be a ton of questions from this neophyte.
John McDonnell
Currently putting around in a Grumman AA1A N9210L
Hoping to soar in an RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: Last Chance to stop me |
| From: | "Ronald Vandervort" <ronvandervort(at)earthlink.net> |
"Ronald Vandervort"
JOHN,
In my opinion you will find building an RV6A, becoming an RV'er, and the
ultimate; flying an RV that you built, one of the most gratifying things you
will ever do in your life. You will meet and become part of a very special
fraternity of folks. You will find Van's Aircraft honest helpful and
sellers of a fine product with great support.
Why would anyone not want to go there?
Ron Vandervort, RV-6 370 hrs....230 in the last 12 months. Fun, Fun,
Fun....!
----------
>From: JTAnon(at)AOL.COM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com, rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: Last Chance to stop me
>Date: SunSUNOct,05,1528,2000200028,8:19 PM
>
>
> I fell in love with the RV6A at Oshkosh in '97. Since then my dream is to
> build and own the best kit plane on the market.
>
> I've been lurking the list for a year, researching other sites, studying the
> pre purchase plans, and convincing my wife. Now I'm ready to start. This is
> the last chance to talk me out of building.
>
> I will shortly order an RV6A QB kit. My experience is nil (never so much as
> drove a rivet), but my work ethic and patience are high. Can a guy such as
October 09, 2000 - October 16, 2000
RV-Archive.digest.vol-jl