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November 06, 2000 - November 11, 2000

Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( Knowing about a thing is different from ) ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) ( and still understand nothing. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Re: Is it realy necessary...?
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Daniel: I agree with Kevin on Scotch Brite Wheel being a much used and thus needed tool during the building process. That being said, to get started why not by a 2 & 1 in. Scotch Brite Wheel for a total of $10.00 from Cleaveland Tool and prove to yourself the value. You could use either wheel in a Drill Press or Die Grinder depending on the application. Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 11:00 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Is it realy necessary...? > > > > > > >Hello listers: > > > >I have a new questions: > > > >Is it really necessary to buy a "3m Scitch-Brit Deburring Wheel...? or > >Can I only use a "Speed Deburring&C'sinking Tool"...? > > > >the difference. The PRICE..!!! > > > >thanks > > > > > >Daniel Estrada > >Mxico City > >RV6A Empenage > > > > Well, it probably isn't 100% essential, as you could build the plane > without it. But it will save you a huge amount of time, so I would > buy it. > > I use it for much more than just deburing the edges of skins. It > gets used a lot for polishing the edges of pieces that you make from > angle or other stock. You will make a lot of pieces, using a > bandsaw, hacksaw, cutoff wheel, or whatever you use. Those cut edges > need to be smoothed down, and the ScotchBrite wheel is by far the > fastest way to do it. I suppose you could use a file, or sandpaper > to do this, but it would take forever. > > ScotchBrite wheels come in a lot of different compositions. You want > the one marked "CP-7AM". A big one mounted on a bench grinder will > last the whole project, if you are careful not to wear too many deep > grooves in it. There may be cheaper equivalents from other vendors, > but I don't know about them. > -- > Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 95% done) > Ottawa, Canada > http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2000
From: RE Miller <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: AeroElectric New Order Policy--Suggestion
Bob Have you considered using Paypal? With Paypal money is transferred safely from the customers checking or credit card account directly into the seller's business checking. I don't believe they charge (at least the don't charge the buyers) and they'll even credit one's account for $5 for signing-up. Just a thought RE Miller $400 worth of carefully prepared order--ON HOLD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Nov 05, 2000
"Re: RV6-List: List Fund Raiser Continues..." (Nov 5, 5:46am)
Subject: Re: List Fund Raiser Continues...
>-------------- >--> RV6-List message posted by: "E. D. Yoes" > >On Fri, Nov 3, 2000 11:33 AM, M. Drallle wrote: >>Won't you make a Contribution via US Mail to the >>address also listed below. > >> c/o Matt Dralle >> Matronics >> P.O. Box 347 >> Livermore, CA 94551 > >I mailed a check to that address about two months >ago and it has not cleared yet. >-------------- Evan, I did received your check and I appologize for the delay in cashing. Matt -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft Great minds discuss ideas, Average minds discuss events, Small minds discuss people... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net>
Subject: Re: rudder tail/strobe light
Date: Nov 05, 2000
snip > Any tips on installing the whelen tail/strobe light in the fiberglass fairing > would be appreciated. I saw (archives) where one builder glassed in a piece > of 1/8" aluminum to fit the light. I guess I just "hack" off the bottom > corner of my gorgeous rudder and go to town. >snip > Rick Gray (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm Rick, It sounds like you may have the "old" style bottom rudder fairing that requires surgery on the actual rudder skin. Van's has changed the fairing design to totally place the tail light in the bottom fairing which does away with any cutting on the actual rudder. The fairing is not too expensive. I replaced my old style one with a newer version for this reason. Stan Blanton RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2000
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: You have to ask yourself......
Hello fellow RV-Listers. I am here today to prompt you to ask yourself the question: "Are you better off in regards to your RV project now than you were a year ago?" If your answer is YES!, then you simply have to contribute to the RV-List fund raiser. If your answer is MAYBE!, then you should contribute too because you know deep down inside that the List has helped you stay connected If your answer is NO!, then you have no excuse for not contributing because you are living proof that Matt <=(optional "e" here...) needs the funding to improve the service to reach all builders or builder wanna be's. To make the List relevant to everyone. Especially you! So there is really no excuse for NOT contributing to the List Fund Raiser! Just one more note. Please don't let that drunk driving conviction that Matt got when he was 3 years old sway your decision to contribute. Matt was just spinning around with his friends like 3 year olds like to do so they can act drunk. But Matt does admit that he never should have gotten on that tricycle and takes full responsibility for his actions! Since then Matt has given up spinning and tricycleing too. In fact he hasn't spun himself into dizziness or tricycled for over 25 years. The arresting officer was quoted as saying, " Matt was a picture of integrity, I actually felt sorry for him when he pee'd his pants as I handed him the ticket." A nationally recognized expert from Spinners Anonymous has said that anyone who has not spun for over 20 years will most likely never have a relapse. SO rest assured that your contribution will be used wisely by a good honest spin-free administrator. I hope that nifty tag that Matt <=(optional "e"here...) has attached to all the current list posts appears below so I don't have to cut and paste all that stuff.....................(Getting lazy...) AL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2000
From: meketa <acgm(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Re: A question, and an offer for my past Ti-down customers
Randy The last 8 numbers. ---- ---- 9041 8021 Can you please verify the order. If you have any questions let me know. Gerge Meketa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William M. Costello" <WMCEnt(at)enteract.com>
Subject: Simple Green
Date: Nov 05, 2000
Hi Folks, Maybe you are all aware of this. I wasn't. Apparently the government, in no uncertain terms, says DO NOT use Simple Green to clean your aircraft or aircraft parts. See the web site below. Bill Costello wmcent(at)enteract.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-swpc(at)mclean1.his.com [mailto:owner-swpc(at)mclean1.his.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lando Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 10:34 AM Subject: Re: SWPC: Re: Simple Green FWIW... http://safety.army.mil/pages/lessonslearned/simplegreens.htm l Jim Lando N7440D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2000
Subject: Re: Is it realy necessary...?
From: cecilth(at)juno.com
Personally I wouldn't do with out one. I am now wearing out my second one and its getting a little to small now, so I will be getting another one soon. I do use it for other things than plane parts, maybe 20% I would guess. Cecil Hatfield writes: > > > Hello listers: > > I have a new questions: > > Is it really necessary to buy a "3m Scitch-Brit Deburring Wheel...? > or > Can I only use a "Speed Deburring&C'sinking Tool"...? > > the difference. The PRICE..!!! > > thanks > > > Daniel Estrada > Mxico City > RV6A Empenage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
From: Frank and Dorothy <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Is it realy necessary...?
"Daniel Estrada F." wrote: > Is it really necessary to buy a "3m Scitch-Brit Deburring Wheel...? No, it's not really necessary. I don't have one, and I'm now on the Finish Kit. You can deburr skin edges and the edges of large holes using a file followed by Emery paper. However, like all tools, it would be nice to have if you can afford it. > Can I only use a "Speed Deburring&C'sinking Tool"...? The "Speed Deburring Tool" is for a different job... for deburring the edges of small holes. Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave" <dhrycauk(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: De-burring nose ribs
Date: Nov 05, 2000
I just cut small strips of ScotchBrite and used the dental floss method to clean the edges, with the rib supported between my knees I had no problems cleaning the edges. Dave Hrycauk RV-8 Fuel Tank Assembly Fuselage Ordered..... http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dhrycauk/index.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 11:10 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: De-burring nose ribs > > Real "Emery" paper or cloth is hard to find. Its abrasive is hard carbon > particles. Other abrasives are Aluminum Oxide (tan) and Silicon Carbide > (black). There are a couple other papers, ordinary sand which is very poor > and garnet which works well on wood but not on metal. The other really fine > paper is crocus cloth which is iron oxide. > > There was a discussion about which was the proper ScotchBite to use as one > had Aluminum oxide and the other silicon carbide. I don't remember > (C.R.A.F.T.) which was the preferred abrasive. I do know that Steel wool > does contaminate the aluminum and should not be used. > > Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! > (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 11:35 AM > Subject: RE: RV-List: De-burring nose ribs > > > > > > Thanks for the tip and all the other tips I received on this subject. > > > > I was using emery cloth on a few select parts before. The inspector told > me > > that I shouldn't do it though due to the metal content in the emery cloth. > > Does this make sense? > > > > Sine that, I have been using regulat sand paper. > > > > Are > > RV-8 - Wings > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Lawson > > Sent: November 4, 2000 1:26 PM > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: RV-List: De-burring nose ribs > > > > > > > > Someone recently asked for suggestions on deburring parts where there's > not > > a lot of room to maneuver a deburring tool or file > > (such as wing nose ribs and tank ribs). Try this: cut a piece of > fine-grit > > emery cloth into narrow strips, put the part to be > > deburred in a vise, and use the emery cloth as though you were flossing > your > > teeth (mandatory disclaimer, necessary in today's > > litigious society - do NOT use emery cloth to floss your teeth!!!! It > would > > be VERY hard on the enamel, to say the least). A light > > touch with the cloth will do OK, as even the fine grade of emery cloth (at > > least, the finest I could find) is still kinda gritty. > > > > John > > RV-6 (waiting on trim tab parts) > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2000
From: David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Pulsating alternator output
Listers: I have looked at archives and have found only information about voltage fluctuation tied to strobes. Problem: While flying with a friend in his 4, the lights pulsate bright to dim. This pulsating is not tied to any other assessory or liht component. Turning everything in the panel off did not affect this phenonemum. He has been trying to track it down. He is using a Van's alternator and has swaped out several regulators. Could it be just a bad alternator? His charging rate is stable and keeps his battery charged. He has no voltmeter. Ampmeter shows no deflection. Anyone go through this? What did you find? Dave Aronson RV4 N504RV FWF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 05, 2000
Subject: Re: It Flys!!
In a message dated 11/4/00 7:31:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes: << N809Rs took off from the Honolulu International Airport at 4:30 PM, Friday, November 3, 2000, for her first flight. >> Congratulations Mike. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, working on canopy installation ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pulsating alternator output
Date: Nov 05, 2000
> > >Listers: >I have looked at archives and have found only information about voltage >fluctuation tied to strobes. >Problem: While flying with a friend in his 4, the lights pulsate bright >to dim. This pulsating is not tied to any other assessory or liht >component. Turning everything in the panel off did not affect this >phenonemum. He has been trying to track it down. He is using a Van's >alternator and has swaped out several regulators. Could it be just a >bad alternator? His charging rate is stable and keeps his battery >charged. He has no voltmeter. Ampmeter shows no deflection. >Anyone go through this? What did you find? >Dave Aronson >RV4 N504RV >FWF Dave, He'll need to hook up a voltmeter across the DC bus. Gotta see what the voltage is doing. I can't imagine flying without any voltage reference. I highly recommend installing a voltmeter in the airplane. I believe a voltmeter is required equipment in a VFR airplane with an electrical system, but I'm not positive since I don't have a FAR book with me. Get a meter on the situation first. Check all grounds as well. More often than not, electrical problems I've had have been based on a grounding problem. If the alternator is still in question, dismount it and take it to be checked under load at Autozone, Napa, etc. I'm sure Electric Bob will have a ton of wisdom to shed on this subject as well. Best of luck, Brian Denk ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RGray67968(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 05, 2000
Subject: Re: rudder tail/strobe light
Thanks for the tips on my tail/stobe light question. I did not know about a "newer" style bottom rudder fairing. Mine is already cut and fitted but I will go with Stan Blanton's suggestion and order the "new" one from Vans. Glad I posted before I hacked up my rudder! Rick Gray (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 05, 2000
Subject: Re: Installing Roll-bar brace.
In a message dated 11/4/00 2:09:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, EdHicks(at)compuserve.com writes: << Do any sliding canopy -6/6A builders have good advice to offer with regard to fitting the WD-643 rollbar brace? >> Hi Ed: I certainly won't claim this to be good advice, but what I did was first make absolutely certain that the roll bar was perpendicular to the longerons at the cabin and located fore and aft exactly per the plans. I then trial fitted the brace bar using strips of aluminum to simulate the forward top skin. I found that the best position to get a smooth fit was with the forward edge of the flat flange on the brace just a little (like 1/4 in.) aft of the web of the center top bulkhead. I had to file the bottom of the bar at the forward end to get the best fit and then determined that I had to shorten the bar by about 3/8 in. (I don't remember exactly how much I cut off so check it before cutting). Good luck, and don't cut the slot for the flange in the fwd top skin in the wrong place like I did!!!##***#@#. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, working on canopy installation ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2000
From: "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric's New Order Policy
> > > << Has anyone had their card number "nabbed" and used without authorization? There is a federal law that says that you are not responsible if your credit card is used fraudulently, except for a total of $50. This applies whether your card is lost or stolen, if your number is hacked over the internet, or whether a dishonest waiter copies it when you pay your check. In addition, most internet companies have an advertised policy that says that "if your card is fraudulently used as a result of something that happened when you made a purchase through them, that they will cover that $50 for you". In over 5 years in business we have never once had, or been made aware of such a problem. It is a very rare thing. If you ever see a "funny" charge on your credit card, all you have to do is call your credit card company and say that you "contest" that charge. It will immediately be taken off your account and usually charged back to the merchant who entered it. Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2000
From: pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com
Subject: Trim Servo Wire Routing
Hi all, What is the best routing for the elevator trim servo wires? Should I drill a small hole for a grommet in the elevator spar just outboard of the "trim cable" hole? If I were to go inboard it would have to go through the elevator horn. Thanks! Jack Des Moines RV8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: AeroElectric's New Order Policy
Date: Nov 05, 2000
>>"Secure" means more expense and adds no security for the #1 means for compromising credit card data. My computers are logged onto a cable-modem account 24 hours a day and without firewalls and << I think that we all sympathize with your business problem. However, I would feel uncomfortable with this approach. You are a great resource - whom I plan to use. Can I mail you my Visa stuff once? Then I could just send you a regular email telling you to charge my Visa. That would make me happy. Ernest Kells RV-9A - Building Wings, Planning: O-235 Wood Prop SaultSte. Marie, Ontario ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com>
Subject: AeroElectric's New Order Policy
Date: Nov 05, 2000
Bob and others, All this banter is useless. You have made a business decision and that's your option. If you're selling something that I need or want, I'll buy it as long as the price and service acceptable. I've made many purchases over the years via the internet and used Paypal, money order, personal check, phoned my CC information, faxed it emailed it. I can understand "some" concern from the buyers perspective but what amazes me is the fact that as a group, "Aviators" are people who are categorized as people who take risks. Although I would think most of us are taking measures to minimize those risks, we still are placing our lives and our loved ones in some danger every time we leave the ground. Would that stop any of us from flying? A few possible but for most of us--NO. When the time comes for me to be in need of your product and/or services, I'll hand over my credit card number and eagerly await my purchases. That is my choice. For those of you less inclined to "risk" it---that is your choice. That's what brought us all together here anyway isn't it---choices? We all made a decision to build a specific make of aircraft. That was our choice. Now get on with building and quit bickering. The opinion stated above is not necessarily just my own. Greg Tanner RV-9A Empennage SER #90186 N80BR RESERVED -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 6:39 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: AeroElectric's New Order Policy > >Well, I hate to say this as I was going to start ordering from you in the >spring when my F1 rocket was futher along, but if you running on a cable >modem with no firewall, i am not going to ever place an order with you. You didn't read the note . . . I DO have a firewall . . several of Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( Knowing about a thing is different from ) ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) ( and still understand nothing. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2000
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Is it realy necessary...?
The scotchbrite wheel will be the best investment you ever make. Don't see how anyone could build an RV without one. "Daniel Estrada F." wrote: > > > Hello listers: > > I have a new questions: > > Is it really necessary to buy a "3m Scitch-Brit Deburring Wheel...? or > Can I only use a "Speed Deburring&C'sinking Tool"...? > > the difference. The PRICE..!!! > > thanks > > Daniel Estrada > Mxico City > RV6A Empenage > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: AeroElectric's New Order Policy
Date: Nov 05, 2000
I have never had my CC stolen due to internet transactions. But it is possible. It's all about perception. I get a warm fuzzy using a secure page. I won't use a non-secure page. Why chance it?! I have little experience with SSI pages, but from what I understand, it's not a big deal to set up. My website host supposedly supports it at no additional cost...I haven't had a need to use it though. I host my site for $60/year. If I had need to CC transactions on my site I would use a secure page to give my customers piece of mind. Perception.... Larry Bowen RV-8 fuse Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com Web: http://BowenAero.com od not archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of HCRV6(at)AOL.COM > Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 2:38 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: AeroElectric's New Order Policy > > > In a message dated 11/5/00 7:58:13 AM Pacific Standard Time, > mcurley(at)cass.net > writes: > > << Has anyone had their card number "nabbed" and used without > authorization? > >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: slosh
Date: Nov 05, 2000
Just a thought on sloshing. Not all "slosh" jobs mean trouble. My recently purchased RV-4 was built in 1993 (Art Chard did the initial assembly). He sloshed the tanks as was the custom back then. In 7 1/2 years and 500+ hours, the tanks are perfect and not one particle of slosh has come loose. Guess it was done right to begin with (but I do and will continue to monitor their condition). Doug Weiler Hudson, WI RV-4, N464EM RV-4 N722DW underconstruction > > I am the third owner of an RV-4 that first flew in 1986. The airplane was > delivered with nearly dry tanks -- I should have asked, why? > Soon enough I found they both leaked badly. When the tanks were off and the > access plates removed we found loose pieces of Randolph slosh ranging in > size up to a couple of square inches. The right fuel pickup tube was about > 80% blocked. The A/C log showed, "repaired tank leaks" but did not specify > the method. Cutting access holes in the aft baffle to clean and reseal is a > miserable, but essential job. > > Moral of the story: If you even suspect you tanks may have been sloshed > inspect them carefully and frequently. A blocked fuel line could spoil your > entire afternoon. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "skybolt-aviator" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com>
Subject: Fw: eng
Date: Nov 05, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: "skybolt-aviator" <skybolt-aviator(at)email.msn.com> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 8:04 PM Subject: eng > Sam James has a Lyc A1A,O-360,180hp with fuel injection for sale,$15000.The > eng only has 48 hours and was removed from Prescott Pusher that scared all > that flew it(not wrecked).He also has Narco radio with glide > slope,MicroVision inst system and several other parts.He dosen't have > E-mail,Phone 863 675 4493. > Ollie&Lorene Washburn > RV6-A,N795LW,@FD77. > O-360,180HP,C/S,300+hrs. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2000
From: bcbraem(at)home.com
Subject: Re: De-burring, sanding, polshing aluminum and Prop balancing
Are & others-- The most important thing to keep in mind when beburring, sanding, buffing, polishing, wet sanding your aluminum parts, from the prop blade to the ribs and everything in between, is to use a NON-METALLIC sandpaper/abrasive material. Check the product info card/description to be sure or call the maunfacturer/distributor if there is any question. Once you imbed non-aluminum metallic particles in aluminumm no matter how well prepped and primed, and prime and paint over it, you have undercover corrosion wearing away at your beautiful creation every second of every day. It's not worth it, even on a "good guess" and "great advise" to the contrary. Call any prop shop or aluminum restoration business for confirmation. And before you do anything drastic to your prop, have it balanced by someone who does it a lot, not just the guy with the newest equipment--and, a good suggestion is to have the prop "seat in" in 50 hrs or so before balancing--and the portable units are just fantastic, so you can have the balancing done at your hangar for the same price as the shop job--usually around $200-250, depending on the vendor. And that price includes balancing to the lowest vibration level. Don't let some guy in a hurry tell you that "that's good enough for GA planes"--an experienced tech can get the balance down to around 0.02 ips between 2,000 - 3,000 rpm, even with a portable unit. That is well below the vibration limit that you can feel in the cockpit. But your bearings and crankshaft will know it after hours and hours are put on. Boyd Braem N600SS-Super Six SW FL polishing my prop and spinner every chance I get, sort of-- PS--and remember, if the metal polish leaves some roughness on the leading edge of the prop--use 1200 grit NON-METALLIC stuff to polish it up. > > > Thanks for the tip and all the other tips I received on this subject. > > I was using emery cloth on a few select parts before. The inspector told me > that I shouldn't do it though due to the metal content in the emery cloth. > Does this make sense? > > Sine that, I have been using regulat sand paper. > > Are > RV-8 - Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net>
Subject: Rivet pull out specs
Date: Nov 05, 2000
Listers, Can anyone tell me where to find the specs for the pull out strengths (in tension) of 3/32 and 1/8" rivets such as those used in the RV? I assume it would vary depending on the sheet thickness used. Thanks in advance, Stan Blanton RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2000
From: Arthur Glaser <airplane(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: slosh
Doug, It would be interesting to find out what type or preparation and cleaning he used on the tank in addition to his sloshing procedure. Art Glaser Doug Weiler wrote: > > Just a thought on sloshing. Not all "slosh" jobs mean trouble. My recently > purchased RV-4 was built in 1993 (Art Chard did the initial assembly). He > sloshed the tanks as was the custom back then. In 7 1/2 years and 500+ > hours, the tanks are perfect and not one particle of slosh has come loose. > Guess it was done right to begin with (but I do and will continue to monitor > their condition). > > Doug Weiler > Hudson, WI > RV-4, N464EM > RV-4 N722DW underconstruction > > > > I am the third owner of an RV-4 that first flew in 1986. The airplane was > > delivered with nearly dry tanks -- I should have asked, why? > > Soon enough I found they both leaked badly. When the tanks were off and > the > > access plates removed we found loose pieces of Randolph slosh ranging in > > size up to a couple of square inches. The right fuel pickup tube was about > > 80% blocked. The A/C log showed, "repaired tank leaks" but did not specify > > the method. Cutting access holes in the aft baffle to clean and reseal is > a > > miserable, but essential job. > > > > Moral of the story: If you even suspect you tanks may have been sloshed > > inspect them carefully and frequently. A blocked fuel line could spoil > your > > entire afternoon. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2000
From: John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
Subject: Drawing SK-32?
I'm building an RV-6...I'm reviewing the "Bunny's Guide" and Cretsinger notes on wing construction, both refer to "SK-32" for the numbering system for the wing ribs. I can't find SK-32, either in my copy of the preview plans, or the plans that Van's sent me along with the wing kit. What am I missing? John RV-6 (ribs, ribs, and more ribs...) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 05, 2000
Subject: Re: Builders Seminars
i think learning on your own by your own mistakes is more beneficial in that you won't make that mistake again. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2000
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: Drawing SK-32?
John SK-32 is a "sketch" . It's at the end of section 7 of the construction manual (no page # on it but it's just ahead of the photo's. Dave Bristol RV-6, 0-360,CS, 16hrs at CMA John Lawson wrote: > > I'm building an RV-6...I'm reviewing the "Bunny's Guide" and Cretsinger notes on wing construction, both refer to "SK-32" for the numbering system for the wing ribs. I can't find SK-32, either in my copy of the preview plans, or the plans that Van's sent me along with the wing kit. What am I missing? > > John > RV-6 (ribs, ribs, and more ribs...) > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rquinn1(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 05, 2000
Subject: Squeeking Brakes
My friend (who is about 6 months ahead of us in construction) has taxied his RV6A and has a right side squeeking brake. He has tried the addition of the anti squeek fluid that is used on auto disk brake pads and that seemed to help for a short time but the squeeking has returned. Have any of you RVers experenced this problem and if so how did you solve it? Rod & Rollie RV6A Finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Elrod3794(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 05, 2000
Subject: kit for sale
Dear Fellow RVers: I have purchased a flying RV8 and I have a kit in the basement, the wife said we cant afford both. So we (her) decided to sale the kit. If anyone is interested before I put it in Trade a Plane: RV8a quickbuild fuselage kit 90% complete quickbuild wings 90% complete most of finishing kit except canopy and frame ready to hang engine over $23,000 + shipping invested will take $21.000 for all please contact off list (elrod3794(at)aol.com) thanks Mike ELROD home# 205 744 4994 work# 205 744 9415 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Elrod3794(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 05, 2000
Subject: kit for sale
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Elrod3794(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 05, 2000
Subject: Fwd: kit for sale
From: Elrod3794(at)aol.com Full-name: Elrod3794 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 23:22:07 EST Subject: kit for sale Dear Fellow RVers: I have purchased a flying RV8 and I have a kit in the basement, the wife said we cant afford both. So we (her) decided to sale the kit. If anyone is interested before I put it in Trade a Plane: RV8a quickbuild fuselage kit 90% complete quickbuild wings 90% complete most of finishing kit except canopy and frame ready to hang engine over $23,000 + shipping invested will take $21.000 for all please contact off list (elrod3794(at)aol.com) thanks Mike ELROD home# 205 744 4994 work# 205 744 9415 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Elrod3794(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 05, 2000
Subject: (no subject)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2000
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)scooter.retrix.com>
Old-From tedd(at)vansairforce.org Sun Nov 5 21:26:12 2000
Date: Nov 05, 2000
Old-From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> Subject: Re: RV-List: AeroElectric's New Order Policy From: rvlist(at)vansairforce.org > > OK, lets take a straw poll...how many on the list have actually had their > credit card number abused due to an internet transaction? I make purchases by credit card on the internet nearly every day, mostly for work but sometimes for myself. I have never had an unauthorized purchase, or any similar problem. I use both "secure" (encrypted) and non-secure (non-encrypted) sites. If you want to be sure that your credit card number isn't "given out over the internet," you will have to stop using your card. Because half the time you make a purchase in a store they swipe your card, and guess where the number goes? Tedd McHenry Van's Air Force Western Canada Wing tedd(at)vansairforce.org ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2000
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: slosh
I started flying my RV-6 in 1989 and I sloshed the tanks. To this day I have not had a problem. (knock on wood) the only thing I did was scuff the tanks and clean with naptha.(sp) Arthur Glaser wrote: > > > Doug, > > It would be interesting to find out what type or preparation and cleaning he > used on the tank in addition to his sloshing procedure. Art Glaser > > Doug Weiler wrote: > > > > > Just a thought on sloshing. Not all "slosh" jobs mean trouble. My recently > > purchased RV-4 was built in 1993 (Art Chard did the initial assembly). He > > sloshed the tanks as was the custom back then. In 7 1/2 years and 500+ > > hours, the tanks are perfect and not one particle of slosh has come loose. > > Guess it was done right to begin with (but I do and will continue to monitor > > their condition). > > > > Doug Weiler > > Hudson, WI > > RV-4, N464EM > > RV-4 N722DW underconstruction > > > > > > I am the third owner of an RV-4 that first flew in 1986. The airplane was > > > delivered with nearly dry tanks -- I should have asked, why? > > > Soon enough I found they both leaked badly. When the tanks were off and > > the > > > access plates removed we found loose pieces of Randolph slosh ranging in > > > size up to a couple of square inches. The right fuel pickup tube was about > > > 80% blocked. The A/C log showed, "repaired tank leaks" but did not specify > > > the method. Cutting access holes in the aft baffle to clean and reseal is > > a > > > miserable, but essential job. > > > > > > Moral of the story: If you even suspect you tanks may have been sloshed > > > inspect them carefully and frequently. A blocked fuel line could spoil > > your > > > entire afternoon. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Hurlbut" <shurlbut(at)island.net>
Subject: Re: kit for sale
Date: Nov 05, 2000
Where are you located? Steve Hurlbut Comox, BC shurlbut(at)island.net ----- Original Message ----- From: <Elrod3794(at)AOL.COM> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 8:22 PM Subject: RV-List: kit for sale > > Dear Fellow RVers: > I have purchased a flying RV8 and I have a kit in the basement, the > wife said we cant afford both. > So we (her) decided to sale the kit. > If anyone is interested before I put it in Trade a Plane: > > RV8a quickbuild fuselage kit 90% complete > quickbuild wings 90% complete > most of finishing kit except canopy and frame > ready to hang engine > over $23,000 + shipping invested > will take $21.000 for all > please contact off list (elrod3794(at)aol.com) > > thanks Mike ELROD > home# 205 744 4994 > work# 205 744 9415 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
From: Frank and Dorothy <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric's New Order Policy
Builder's Bookstore wrote: > > << Has anyone had their card number "nabbed" and used without authorization? > > There is a federal law that says that you are not responsible if your credit card > is used fraudulently, except for a total of $50. This applies whether your card > is lost or stolen, if your number is hacked over the internet, or whether a > dishonest waiter copies it when you pay your check. In addition, most internet > companies have an advertised policy that says that "if your card is fraudulently > used as a result of something that happened when you made a purchase through > them, that they will cover that $50 for you". > > In over 5 years in business we have never once had, or been made aware of such a > problem. It is a very rare thing. I've never had a problem either. > If you ever see a "funny" charge on your credit card, all you have to do is call > your credit card company and say that you "contest" that charge. It will > immediately be taken off your account and usually charged back to the merchant > who entered it. Yes... the problem belongs to the credit card company and/or the merchant. This is why Visa, etc are so interested in the Secure Electronic Transaction (SET) standards for the Net. I was told (by a cryptography expert from Atalla/Compaq) that 25% of Net "merchants" are fraudulent. Obviously in this case it's the credit card company's problem. Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karl Schilling" <k_schilling(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Extracting stubborn screw
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Something that has worked for me in the past is to take a Dremel tool and cut a slot in the head of the screw for a straight blade screwdriver. Also put a little WD40 or something like that on it first. Hope this helps. Karl RV-8 711KN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Re: Trim Servo Wire Routing
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Jack, Not sure if there is a major difference between a -8 and a -6. Here's what I did. I didn't drill through the spar. I routed the wires back through the fuselage and up through the deck that the horizontal stabilizer sits on. (Sorry, I can't remember part numbers.) I then mounted a quick disconnect fitting that gets tie wrapped down to the deck. (So you can remove the elevators.) You can route the wires up over the spar in the center because it will be hid by the empennage fairing. I then ran the wires along the elevator torque tubes and attached them with tie wraps to the torque tubes. Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 Indianapolis (98 hours) ----- Original Message ----- From: <pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 4:21 PM Subject: RV-List: Trim Servo Wire Routing > > Hi all, > What is the best routing for the elevator trim servo wires? Should I drill a small hole for > a grommet in the elevator spar just outboard of the "trim cable" hole? If I were to go inboard it > would have to go through the elevator horn. > Thanks! > Jack > Des Moines > RV8 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Subject: f-635 position
From: "Robert Dickson" <bubba(at)coastalnet.com>
Once again I'm scratching my head, this time over the position of the elevator bellcrank f-635. I can't seem to find the drawing that shows where to drill for the bolt that mounts this bellcrank. I suppose it's possible that its position is determined somehow by the pushrods, but that's not obvious either. I'm also curious about a piece on a drawing labeled f-630 (I think). Is it just a support/stiffener? Its dimensions/position aren't obvious to me either. I'm working on a quickbuild. Thanks Robert Dickson RV-6A QB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Has anyone cut inspection holes into the top of the RV?
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Listers, I saw a RV-6 at the Fulton County, NY, fly in that had inspection holes cut into the skin forward of the canopy. I appeared that the builder had made removable panels so that he could service avionics and what not without having to stand on his head inside the cockpit. I thought that this was a neat idea. He cut three holes. One in the middle and one on each side. The panels were held in place by screwed down covers much like the aileron bellcrank access covers in the wing. The holes were big enough to put two hands (my two hands anyway) down into the spaghetti of wires and tubes behind the panel. Has anyone else done this? Does it lead to cracking or loss of strength? Steve Soule Huntington, VT RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
From: Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylorelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric's New Order Policy
Mark Curley wrote: > > OK, lets take a straw poll...how many on the list have actually had their > credit card number abused due to an internet transaction? I have used min many many times over the net and have never had any trouble so far. They can be stolen by unscrupulus people at any business where you use your card. Carroll Bird. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
From: "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: Has anyone cut inspection holes into the top of the RV?
> I saw a RV-6 at the Fulton County, NY, fly in that had inspection holes cut > into the skin forward of the canopy. My neighbor, when I lived in New Mexico did this on his 6A, but with just one large opening rather than three small ones. I think this is a great idea which I often wish I too had copied. Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cliff Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com>
Subject: 3m Wheel - Hot parts?
Date: Nov 06, 2000
When using the 3m wheel, (grinder mounted) how hot can you allow the part being worked to get? There are numerous aluminum parts that have to be shaped, cleand up etc, but I'm wondering if I'm changing the temper and thus the strength of the part. Should parts be dipped in water to cool them off. I don't get the parts red hot, but certainly too hot to hold. Any suggestions? Thanks, Cliff RV9A Erie, CO Empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Starn" <jhstarn(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: 3m Wheel - Hot parts?
Date: Nov 06, 2000
If it's too hot to handle, DONT. Take it slow, the wheel is to stop cuts etc not to replace them with blisters. I have a grinder to remove/shape and a scotchbrite wheel to smooth and "make nice". I'm not an injunear but I put hot metal in water only to temper or rework not to cool. HRII. yuk, fibreglas & finish KABONG ----- Original Message ----- From: Cliff Begnaud <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 7:17 AM Subject: RV-List: 3m Wheel - Hot parts? > Erie, CO > Empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: 3m Wheel - Hot parts?
Date: Nov 06, 2000
If you get your Aluminum "red hot" contact Alcoa for a reward!!!! Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cliff Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 9:17 AM Subject: RV-List: 3m Wheel - Hot parts? > > When using the 3m wheel, (grinder mounted) how hot can you allow the part > being worked to get? > There are numerous aluminum parts that have to be shaped, cleand up etc, but > I'm wondering if I'm changing the temper and thus the strength of the part. > Should parts be dipped in water to cool them off. > I don't get the parts red hot, but certainly too hot to hold. Any > suggestions? > > Thanks, > Cliff > RV9A > Erie, CO > Empennage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Re: Has anyone cut inspection holes into the top of the RV?
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Steve, If the modification was done in accordance with acceptable aircraft methods (see book with similar name), the area should be as strong if not stronger than the uncut skin. I'd be more worried about water leakage. When I've flown in rain, water has managed to make its way into the cockpit and baggage area rather readily. I would guess (wild guess I might add) that the area on top of the fuselage in front of the windscreen is a high pressure area. If I were to do it, I'd double the depth of the doubler ring so I could put a gasket underneath the cover. I sure don't relish the thought of lying on my back looking up in order to access the electronics. But if the opening was only wide enough for two hands and I couldn't see what I was doing, I'm not sure of the value. I can always remove my sub-panels on the instrument panel if I have to get back there. I thought of putting them on a hinge, but I didn't figure I'd need to get back there that often. I suspect the same is true for the inspection covers. I'd think twice before doing it, but I'm sure you can make it work if you really think you need the feature. Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 Indianapolis (98 hours) ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen J. Soule <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 9:12 AM Subject: RV-List: Has anyone cut inspection holes into the top of the RV? > > Listers, > > I saw a RV-6 at the Fulton County, NY, fly in that had inspection holes cut > into the skin forward of the canopy. I appeared that the builder had made > removable panels so that he could service avionics and what not without > having to stand on his head inside the cockpit. > > I thought that this was a neat idea. He cut three holes. One in the middle > and one on each side. The panels were held in place by screwed down covers > much like the aileron bellcrank access covers in the wing. The holes were > big enough to put two hands (my two hands anyway) down into the spaghetti of > wires and tubes behind the panel. > > Has anyone else done this? Does it lead to cracking or loss of strength? > > Steve Soule > Huntington, VT > RV-6A > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Subject: Re: HS-411PP
nobigdeal-go with a larger size rivet for that hole. bob in akansas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
From: Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: It Flys!!
Congrats, Mike Garry, "6" finishing Mike Robertson wrote: > > I am proud to announce that there now another Van's RV-8A to add to the > finished and flown category. N809Rs took off from the Honolulu > International Airport at 4:30 PM, Friday, November 3, 2000, for her first > flight. > > On this first flight she trued out at 156Kts at 23 squared. She was so > stable on her first flight that the pilot, a former competitive aerobatic > gentleman, went ahead and looped and rolled her. Neither I nor my partner > have any RV time and we got an offer from this gentleman, so we decided that > discression being the better part of valor, we accepted his offer. > > She flew for 1.3 hours with 3 minor discrepancies. Both trims needed some > adjustment and the oil temp was a bit on the high side. Max oil temp was > 225 and settled down to 218 in cruise. Not unexpected, as we have the > Positech oil cooler installed. All cylinder head and Temps and EGTs were in > the green on the low side. All pressure were right on the money. So its > time to get a Stuart Warner and replace it, me thinks. As the engine is a > zero time we may fly it a little to make sure but go ahead and order a new > one anyways. > > Gentleman, I don't care if I didn't get the first flight, the RV grin was > still there. It is truely a wonderous sight to see something you have built > takeoff for the first time whether you are in it or on the ground. But, of > course, now I can look forward to the rest of the flying. > > Mike Robertson > RV-8A N809RS > What can I add, IT FLYs!!! > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Subject: Re: HS-411PP
i just re-read. 7/16????? call vans. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Has anyone cut inspection holes into the top of the RV?
Date: Nov 06, 2000
-----Original Message----- From: Stephen J. Soule <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> Date: Monday, November 06, 2000 8:15 AM Subject: RV-List: Has anyone cut inspection holes into the top of the RV? > >Listers, > >I saw a RV-6 at the Fulton County, NY, fly in that had inspection holes cut >into the skin forward of the canopy. I appeared that the builder had made >removable panels so that he could service avionics and what not without >having to stand on his head inside the cockpit. > >I thought that this was a neat idea. He cut three holes. One in the middle >and one on each side. The panels were held in place by screwed down covers >much like the aileron bellcrank access covers in the wing. The holes were >big enough to put two hands (my two hands anyway) down into the spaghetti of >wires and tubes behind the panel. > >Has anyone else done this? Does it lead to cracking or loss of strength? > >Steve Soule >Huntington, VT >RV-6A My helper and I considered this long and hard. If the inspections holes on the sides intercept the curved portion of the forward skin, it gets difficult to fabricate the covers. Here's why. The forward skin is not roll-formed and under tremendous tension/compression as you know from Clecoing it on. The doublers must therefore be riveted (or at least Clecoed) on while the skin is in its stressed state, in situ. Only then can you safely cut out the holes and form the covers. Getting the covers to fit well over the curved sections would be difficult for my building skills so I didn't put them in. Fiberglass would be easier for me than roll-forming covers. To mitigate the wiring mess problem I have three-piece panel overlays and generous (18 inch) service loops on all wiring and vacuum/static plumbing lines. Service loops with #12 AWG wires in them become real boa constrictors, however. By all means run #22AWG were ever possible. I have developed a surprising agility at getting under the panel. Last night I put 10 inches of hard foam on the floor to rest my head, and proceeded to insert myself under the panel with my legs sticking straight up. All this with both seats and sticks in. This exercise was to adjust the vacuum regulator which is way up forward to the left. One last word of advice: Force yourself to crawl underneath the panel and assure yourself that you can in fact get to everything to service it when the forward skin is finally riveted on. I had to relocate some major components because I discovered they would have been impossible to service after the forward skin was on for keeps. Else put in the inspection covers, but don't use them as an excuse to get to improperly located components. Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 6.1 hours Hampshire, IL C38 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Subject: Re: 3m Wheel - Hot parts?
From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
Your Alluminum Jugs are Red lined around 500 deg F. Don Jordan RV6A Arlington, Tx ***************************************** writes: > > > When using the 3m wheel, (grinder mounted) how hot can you allow the > part > being worked to get? > There are numerous aluminum parts that have to be shaped, cleand up > etc, but > I'm wondering if I'm changing the temper and thus the strength of > the part. > Should parts be dipped in water to cool them off. > I don't get the parts red hot, but certainly too hot to hold. Any > suggestions? > > Thanks, > Cliff > RV9A > Erie, CO > Empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Subject: Re: f-635 position
In a message dated 11/6/00 5:51:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, bubba(at)coastalnet.com writes: << again I'm scratching my head, this time over the position of the elevator bellcrank f-635 >> I think drawings 32, 33 and 47 show what you are looking for. The position of the holes for the bellcrank is determined by the intersection of the reinforcing angels on the ribs (I think they are F-628 and 629 but don't have my drawings here). F-630 is a plate that ties the two ribs together at the front, shown on dwg. 47. Hope this helps more than it confuses. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, working on canopy installation ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: garmin 430 question
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Thread-Topic: garmin 430 question Thread-Index: AcBIJK75WQ3AvTHeRhuI0+yd6e/mWg=
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
As I'm sitting here trying to figure out how in the heck I'll be able to afford to upgrade my panel with a GNS-430 and not induce divorce, I am wondering if a marker beacon is necessary. Since the 430 is approach-approved by itself, is it necessary to have a marker beacon receiver if you can determine the fixes by GPS? Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 53 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: garmin 430 question
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Bob, Not necessarily. But if you are going to get an audio panel/intercom, the marker beacon is usually included now in most audio panels. Mike Robertson RV-8A N809RS IT FLYS!!! >From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: garmin 430 question >Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 14:06:35 -0500 > > >As I'm sitting here trying to figure out how in the heck I'll be able to >afford to upgrade my panel with a GNS-430 and not induce divorce, I am >wondering if a marker beacon is necessary. > >Since the 430 is approach-approved by itself, is it necessary to have a >marker beacon receiver if you can determine the fixes by GPS? > >Bob Japundza >RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 53 hours > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Terminaltown(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Subject: Re: AeroElectric's New Order Policy
In a message dated 11/4/00 6:45:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, rmill2000(at)yahoo.com writes: << Bob, Please say it's not so! >> Hi Bob: We have a secure server plus a secure cart and have protection for our customers, up to our eyeballs. I don't care to take chances, no matter how slim or how big the water fall. We too are a small operation. It is not expensive and if you care to contact me off list, I will be glad to tell you who we use and how little it cost for the peace of mind. In the mean time I would like to step up in Bob's defense. Being on line is a very time consuming way to do business and sometimes one has to make choices out of frustration and lack the of time. I would assume he is suffering from the reality of doing business on line. For me, a two finger typist, it takes at least 2 days to get a page researched, get the parts photographed and the page built and up. At the same time trying to process orders, order inventory and ship your stuff to you. Last comments are Bob is a valuable asset and even though Bob and I have had our differences of opinion I feel he has done a great deal to help a lot of folks on this list needs to be supported. Now the sales pitch...If you want a secure server that takes cards...Or you want to Fax it, call it in...I'll be glad to take your order. John @ Terminal Town ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Blomgren" <jackanet(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Trim Servo Wire Routing
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Jack, I have two grommets, one in the elevator spar, one in the rear HS spar, both inline with each other and with the otherwise unused elevator "trim cable" slot. My elevator grommet hole is toward the top of the spar web, directly above the "trim cable" hole location, leaving that hole just for the servo screw front side projection. Looks good and simple to me, but get other solutions & opinions too. The best of building, Jack, Red Wing, MN -8 wings, N8VZ reserved >From: pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Trim Servo Wire Routing >Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 16:21:41 -0500 (EST) > > >Hi all, >What is the best routing for the elevator trim servo wires? Should I drill >a small hole for >a grommet in the elevator spar just outboard of the "trim cable" hole? If >I were to go inboard it >would have to go through the elevator horn. >Thanks! >Jack >Des Moines >RV8 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cliff Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com>
Subject: Re: 3m Wheel - Hot parts?
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Thanks to those that provided input on this question. I posted the following question to "Ask the Guru" on the anvilfire web site, see the response at the end. Cliff I'm building an experimental Kit airplane, mostly out of 2024 t-3 aluminum in thicknesses from .016 - .063. Also, some parts are 6061 T6 in thicknesses from .125 - .1875" I often have to deburr or slightly reshape parts (removing no more than 1/16" of material). This is done with a 3m Scotch brite wheel mounted on a grinder (3400 rpm). The parts will often get hot enough that I can not hold them barehanded. Using a bath towel is enough isulation from the heat. My question is; how hot can I get the aluminum before changing the temper and thus affecting strength and resiliancy of the material? Does the scotchbrite wheel (7A med., I think) get the aluminum too hot? Is it ok to cool the parts by quenching in water? I'm a complete dummy when it comes to metals, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Response: Aluminium: Cliff, The annealing temperature for 2024 and 6061 is 750F. Precipitation hardening occurs at 320F. However brief periods at this temperature while working should not have a detrimental affect. 320F is very close to the char temperature of paper and cotton. So if you can hold the metal with a rag then its most likely not hot enough to have any effect. Quenching in water is fine. Especialy to prevent overheating. Non-ferrous materials are generally quenched from the annealing temperature to soften. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
From: bcbraem(at)home.com
Subject: Re: engine hanging & front tire
Scott-- Did you get my parts list for your prop gov installation--I don't have a -360 parts manual so I couldn't give you the exact part numbers. What did Dick Waters & Co. have to say about the missing parts? I'm sure that other Florida builders will be interested in how they handle your problem! Let us all know. Boyd N600SS > > > Dear listers: > yesterday was a bit disappointing, 1st my engine hanging party was > unsuccessful due to the missing prop governor drive in side the engine. This > wasn't discovered until we removed the pad cover. so the engine didn't get > hung. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2000
From: Bruce Stewart <bruces(at)shoalhaven.net.au>
Subject: Re:Cost of engine rebuild in the US
One topic that came up on the weekend was the cost of engine rebuilding. Out here it seems that a rebuild or an exchange is about $20,000 (aus) for an 0-320! a fair bit of dough in anyones book. Whats the deal in US dollars when times up? Bruce ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John.Duncan(at)ap.interfaceinc.com
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 59 Msgs - 11/05/00
>From: Bruce Stewart <bruces(at)shoalhaven.net.au> >Subject: RV-List: Re:Weekend > > >Hi All, > >theres not been much traffic so its time to >fess up on whats going on! :-) > >OK who's done what and when? > >Here in the land of Oz I went to a place called >Wedderburn (near Sydney) on Sunday and helped a >friend install a GPS in his RV 4, it was also an open day >for the NSW Sport Aircraft Club where the usual stuff >went on, it was interesting to see the line up of aircraft >however I can't help feeling a little out of place as >the average age of people attending seemed to be about >20 to 30 years older then me!! (I'm 36). > >Bruce Hey, I resemble that remark!! Wot's this 20-30 years older stuff. My beard my be getting a bit sun bleached lately, but I'm still a long way short of 50! For the rest of you, I'm building my RV8 wings at Wedderburn, and the RV4 Bruce is refering to is a beauty. I'm putting some photos of it and the other 11 RV's that were at the Sports Aircraft Association of Australia (SAAA) Temora flyin two weeks ago up on the VAF World Wide Wing board. Regards from Oz John Duncan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Bell" <dbell(at)manisteenational.com>
Subject: Stereo decks
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Guys, I am looking for any input some of you may have on installing a cd/fm radio car stereo in your panels.....Any thoughts on success or vibration? Any particular brand names that are good. I have info from one builder but was wondering if any of you have succesfully installed. The other option I see a lot is the portables on the side, I just thoughjt it would be cleaner in the panel. Thanks in advance. Doug Bell 8QB...Canopy cut, working on the skirt..:) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N95MF(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Don't forget to vote!
In a message dated 11/6/00 11:24:25 AM Central Standard Time, VFrazier(at)usi.edu writes: <> I don't want anyone's political thoughts on this RV-list . As far as you thinking we need to hear your political inclinations-if you decided we ALL NEED to know your feelings - then it is obvious we should NOT vote for who say because this is NO PLACE for political discussions. Your judgement is clearly suspect if you feel otherwise. Mark Goldberg. Austin TX. home of the Prince who would be King I ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
From: Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Alternator Weight
What is the year and/or part number for the Geo Metro/Sprint alternator? Charlie Brame RV-6A QB San Antonio ----------------------------------- > Ted, "lightweight" is relative! > > Put the Vans alternator in one hand and the standard, certificated, 60 > amp Motorcraft unit in the other and you will see why the ND is > "lightweight". > > Robin Hunt is running a tiny little 65 amp alternator in his RV8 that is > for a Geo Metro/Sprint. It is the smallest automotive alternator I have > seen and has internal regulation which you may or may not want. > > However, I doubt that you will find an alternator that weighs much less > than the Vans/ND unit. > > Good luck, > > Sam Buchanan (RV-6 with Vans alternator) > "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:Cost of engine rebuild in the US
Date: Nov 06, 2000
> >One topic that came up on the weekend was the cost of engine rebuilding. >Out here it seems that a rebuild or an exchange is about $20,000 (aus) for >an >0-320! a fair bit of dough in anyones book. Whats the deal in US dollars >when >times up? > >Bruce Bruce, I've seen prices ranging from US$9k to $15k. Ain't cheap, no matter where you live. Some reuse the cylinders if serviceable, others trash them. All overhauls are not created equal. Gotta check the fine print to be sure you're getting what you pay for. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD hopefully far from overhaul. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Stereo decks
Just make sure it is a better quality one and that it has the anti skip memory function. Usually stores 3-5 seconds in memory so when they do skip you dont notice it. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Don't forget to vote!
In a message dated 11/6/2000 4:28:27 PM Central Standard Time, N95MF(at)AOL.COM writes: << I don't want anyone's political thoughts on this RV-list . As far as you thinking we need to hear your political inclinations-if you decided we ALL NEED to know your feelings - then it is obvious we should NOT vote for who say because this is NO PLACE for political discussions. Your judgement is clearly suspect if you feel otherwise. Mark Goldberg. Austin TX. home of the Prince who would be King >> This is true, however as a pilot you need to consider if you still want to fly or not after gore is elected. Since if you have looked at some of the projections, most private pilots will no longer be able to fly. Regular car gas at 3.00 per gallon. No leaded fuel as thats bad for the enviorment. But then again regardless of who you vote for, just make sure you vote. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stereo decks
Date: Nov 06, 2000
> > >Guys, >I am looking for any input some of you may have on installing a cd/fm radio >car stereo in your panels.....Any thoughts on success or vibration? Any >particular brand names that are good. I have info from one builder but was >wondering if any of you have succesfully installed. >The other option I see a lot is the portables on the side, I just thoughjt >it would be cleaner in the panel. >Thanks in advance. >Doug Bell >8QB...Canopy cut, working on the skirt..:) > Doug, I just hooked up a portable CD player to my intercom aux input. It does work, but the output power is too low for best quality audio. Rusty Duffy (RV8) and I are working on an alternative to this...such as a power amp of some sort. The player skips from vibration when I place it down on the right mid-cabin cover, even with carpet on it. So, if I place it in my lap, it works OK. I would think that a regular in-dash car CD player would have much better vibration and shock resistance and be an overall better setup. The only drawback: it takes up valuable panel real estate. Decisions, decisions. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD 147 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com>
Subject: Stereo decks
Date: Nov 06, 2000
I hooked up a portable through my intercom also and not enough amperage to hear it very well. Needs some sort of external amplifier but still abel to go through the intercom. Needs to shut off when receiving or sending also. Greg > > I just hooked up a portable CD player to my intercom aux input. It does work, but the output power is too low for best quality audio. Rusty Duffy (RV8) and I are working on an alternative to this...such as a power amp of some sort. The player skips from vibration when I place it down on the right mid-cabin cover, even with carpet on it. So, if I place it in my lap, it works OK. I would think that a regular in-dash car CD player would have much better vibration and shock resistance and be an overall better setup. The only drawback: it takes up valuable panel real estate. Decisions, decisions. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD 147 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Hudgins" <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Stereo decks
Date: Nov 06, 2000
I installed a Pioneer AM/FM CD player in the panel of my -6A and it has worked great. Vibration has never been a problem with the playback of the CD. I also use a Flightcom intercom which also works well with the stereo. Automatic mute when receiving either passenger or radio transmissions. Installed a generic car antenna in the right wing tip, even though it's proper to install vertically, horizontal mounting has worked fine for me. Have not had any interference from strobe cable bleed, may be due to running antenna wire and strobe cable in seperate holes in the wing ribs approx. 8" apart. You will really enjoy listening to your favorite tunes on those long trips. Good luck. Dave Hudgins Jackson, TN. Guys, I am looking for any input some of you may have on installing a cd/fm radio car stereo in your panels.....Any thoughts on success or vibration? Any particular brand names that are good.... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com>
Subject: Stereo decks
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Dave, How did you wire the stereo to the intercom? Greg -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Hudgins ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Subject: Re: engine hanging & front tire
BOYD Dick waters informed me that the prop governor gear housing is an accessory, and it didn't come with the engine. it simply bolts on the accessory case. i don't have to get into the engine at all. he did have one laying around in excellent shape and sold it to me for 200. compared to 800 for new. i was satisfied once i saw it. he also gave me inter baffle set and a small oil fitting. overall i thought he was fair. but then again i took his word about the 800 dollar cost for new. you were right about the gaskets, but i already had the ( good one ) which came with the govenor. the snap ring was in there like you said. my engine does have the oil bypass valve located in rear of engine below the oil temp sender. for now i will keep the screen, i may go to a firewall mount later, but not sure yet. again thanks for bringing over your plane for us to drowel over. and your help is very much appreciated hope to see you at the engine hanging party part 2. the sequel. take care Scott Tampa rv6a now I'm ready to hang this thang ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Stereo decks SONY Memory Stick
I have the Sony Memory Stick Player in my plane. This unit is very small 4" x 1.5" and will hold over an hours worth of music on each 64 meg card. I have the unit connected to the music input of a PS Engineering stereo intercom and have Light Speed 25 XL head sets. The sound is very good, lots of volume and will not skip. The intercom fades the music on radio transmissions. This units comes with software to download CD's and MP3 music to the unit. On the down side the memory sticks are expensive, I just download new music with my notebook. Rob Hickman RV-4 N401RH ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
From: "Gary S." <gstrong(at)uswest.net>
Subject: f-635 position
I just put mine in last night and I referenced drawing 32 (right hand side about the middle shows a cutout of F635). I looked at the drawing and it appeared that I needed to be in the middle of the horizontal alluminum angle on F629 and also the middle of the alluminum angle on F628. I drilled the hole and everything mounted up fine and appears to be in alignment. Gary S. RV6QB - starting on the tail -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert Dickson Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 7:42 AM Subject: RV-List: f-635 position Once again I'm scratching my head, this time over the position of the elevator bellcrank f-635. I can't seem to find the drawing that shows where to drill for the bolt that mounts this bellcrank. I suppose it's possible that its position is determined somehow by the pushrods, but that's not obvious either. I'm also curious about a piece on a drawing labeled f-630 (I think). Is it just a support/stiffener? Its dimensions/position aren't obvious to me either. I'm working on a quickbuild. Thanks Robert Dickson RV-6A QB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kerrjb(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Subject: RV Invitational Breakfast in SE Fla (non building DNA)
Hi RV'ers, We are about to hold our 5th annual RV breakfast at Treasure Coast Airpark (FL 37) on Dec 9th. If you are interested in invitation and details please email me off line at kerrjb(at)aol.com Bernie Kerr, 6A 50 and re assembly after paint, TCAP ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)mari.net>
Subject: Re: Stereo decks SONY Memory Stick
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Fellow Listers: Has anyone had experience with the PDA's that the anywhere pilot GPS system uses such as the Casio or the Compaq, and the MP3 feature that they have? (I know.....here I go beating that subject to death!) I was wondering if it is on a par with the Sony memory stick system or any other MP3 player for that matter. Seems kinda neat to have your GPS, and tunes all in the same removable unit, not to mention all the features/benefits of having a PDA. Just wondering...... Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A fuse Peshtigo, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
From: "Gary S." <gstrong(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Rudder Pedal Blocks
I'm getting ready to mount F6116 rudder pedal blocks and I can't seem to find in the archives the location they should be mounted (distance from the firewall or something similar). I did see a reference to someone drilling several holes so that they can be moved later in the build process, but still no dimensions for the holes. Can anyone give me an idea of what worked for them? (I'm 5'9" - average height/build). thanks! Gary S. - RV6AQB - on to the tail ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Simple Green
Date: Nov 06, 2000
> Apparently the government, in no uncertain terms, > says DO NOT use Simple Green to clean your > aircraft or aircraft parts. When my government tells me what to do, I bristle. hal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Alternator Weight
Charles Brame wrote: > > > What is the year and/or part number for the Geo Metro/Sprint alternator? > > Charlie Brame > RV-6A QB > San Antonio > > ----------------------------------- > > > Ted, "lightweight" is relative! > > > > Put the Vans alternator in one hand and the standard, certificated, 60 > > amp Motorcraft unit in the other and you will see why the ND is > > "lightweight". > > > > Robin Hunt is running a tiny little 65 amp alternator in his RV8 that is > > for a Geo Metro/Sprint. It is the smallest automotive alternator I have > > seen and has internal regulation which you may or may not want. > > > > However, I doubt that you will find an alternator that weighs much less > > than the Vans/ND unit. > > > > Good luck, > > > > Sam Buchanan (RV-6 with Vans alternator) > > "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal > > Charlie, I don't know the part number, but I doubt that it matters. Geo Metros (Metri?) haven't been around very long. Just amble up to the parts counter, tell the fellow you are interested in looking at a Geo alternator, if he asks you what year tell him it doesn't matter because it is for your RV. He will look kinda puzzled as he wonders how the alternator can power a Winnebago, but don't let that discourage you. Just tell him you are looking for the smallest Geo alternator he has. You can email Robin Hunt (RV-8) if you need more info: robinrmh(at)hiwaay.net Good luck! Sam Buchanan "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Simple Green
Date: Nov 06, 2000
I've been using it for years to clean motorcycle and race car parts. Hell, I use it on my cars paint to remove track rubber marks. I love the stuff...and always have at least a gallon around. I will continue to use it on the airplane when it's done. Bill -4 wings > Apparently the government, in no uncertain terms, > > says DO NOT use Simple Green to clean your > > aircraft or aircraft parts. > > When my government tells me what to do, I bristle. > > hal > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: it's a girl
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Ok, it's not aircraft related....sorta. I just brought home my new weimaraner puppy......and for the aircraft content of this email, her name is CLEKO. Bill -4 wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Subject: Re: engine hanging & front tire
BOYD Dick waters informed me that the prop governor gear housing is an accessory, and it didn't come with the engine. it simply bolts on the accessory case. i don't have to get into the engine at all. he did have one laying around in excellent shape and sold it to me for 200. compared to 800 for new. i was satisfied once i saw it. he also gave me inter baffle set and a small oil fitting. overall i thought he was fair. but then again i took his word about the 800 dollar cost for new. you were right about the gaskets, but i already had the ( good one ) which came with the govenor. the snap ring was in there like you said. my engine does have the oil bypass valve located in rear of engine below the oil temp sender. for now i will keep the screen, i may go to a firewall mount later, but not sure yet. again thanks for bringing over your plane for us to drowel over. and your help is very much appreciated hope to see you at the engine hanging party part 2. the sequel. take care Scott Tampa rv6a now I'm ready to hang this thang ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Stereo decks SONY Memory Stick
I have the Sony Memory Stick Player in my plane. This unit is very small 4" x 1.5" and will hold over an hours worth of music on each 64 meg card. I have the unit connected to the music input of a PS Engineering stereo intercom and have Light Speed 25 XL head sets. The sound is very good, lots of volume and will not skip. The intercom fades the music on radio transmissions. This units comes with software to download CD's and MP3 music to the unit. On the down side the memory sticks are expensive, I just download new music with my notebook. Rob Hickman RV-4 N401RH ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
From: "Gary S." <gstrong(at)uswest.net>
Subject: f-635 position
I just put mine in last night and I referenced drawing 32 (right hand side about the middle shows a cutout of F635). I looked at the drawing and it appeared that I needed to be in the middle of the horizontal alluminum angle on F629 and also the middle of the alluminum angle on F628. I drilled the hole and everything mounted up fine and appears to be in alignment. Gary S. RV6QB - starting on the tail -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert Dickson Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 7:42 AM Subject: RV-List: f-635 position Once again I'm scratching my head, this time over the position of the elevator bellcrank f-635. I can't seem to find the drawing that shows where to drill for the bolt that mounts this bellcrank. I suppose it's possible that its position is determined somehow by the pushrods, but that's not obvious either. I'm also curious about a piece on a drawing labeled f-630 (I think). Is it just a support/stiffener? Its dimensions/position aren't obvious to me either. I'm working on a quickbuild. Thanks Robert Dickson RV-6A QB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric's New Order Policy
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Our esteemed Electric Bob wrote: >Get a job as a waiter for a few weeks and you can have hundreds of > perfectly good numbers I suppose that is how they got mine and ran up big bucks which card company took care of - in fact they called me as charges looked unusual. >Thieves may be dishonest but they're not stupid. Oh Yeah? Then why did they charge their telephone bill to my card? Duhhh! If Bob gives me a little chant to do before all electric work, I'll do it! hal Looking for the chapter on installing radios.... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Fairing the Rudder Horm and Tie-Down Ring on RV6A
Date: Nov 06, 2000
A couple of RV-s at OSH and one featured in Van's recent RVAtor showed rather long fairings that covered the rudder cable from forward of where it emerges through the side of the fuselage all the way back to just past the horn. Also the tie-down ring was faired. Question: Has anyone done this? If so, did you just pop rivet the fairings on, or did you use nut plates? If nutplates, how did you get to the back side to dimple the skin...I would like to add them, but want to make them easily removable (drilling out blind rivets isn't my idea of "removable!") Suggestions welcome RV6A Flying Salida, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Don't forget to vote!
N95MF(at)AOL.COM wrote: > > > In a message dated 11/6/00 11:24:25 AM Central Standard Time, > VFrazier(at)usi.edu writes: > > << > I apologize to those who don't think that the RV list is the place for this > type of discussion. Obviously, I think it is. >> > > I don't want anyone's political thoughts on this RV-list . As far as you > thinking we need to hear your political inclinations-if you decided we ALL > NEED to know your feelings - then it is obvious we should NOT vote for who > say because this is NO PLACE for political discussions. Your judgement is > clearly suspect if you feel otherwise. > Mark Goldberg. Austin TX. home of the Prince who would be King > Oh and your signature line is not a political view? Its to bad that those that are complaining here didn't read the part about flaming V Frazier in his email. Vincent hang in there you have some very good points. Jerry (don't pay attention to the netcops) Springer ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Slosh
From: Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com>
From: "Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: slosh Just a thought on sloshing. Not all "slosh" jobs mean trouble. My recently purchased RV-4 was built in 1993 (Art Chard did the initial assembly). He sloshed the tanks as was the custom back then. In 7 1/2 years and 500+ hours, the tanks are perfect and not one particle of slosh has come loose. Guess it was done right to begin with (but I do and will continue to monitor their condition). Doug Weiler Hudson, WI RV-4, N464EM - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Doug is right. I know of many RV's (An early RV-6A that I built included) that had the tanks sloshed and they have never had any de lamination / peeling problems. I am convinced that it has largely been caused by a problem with the product as much as with the method of application (though I have absolutely no scientific evidence to support this thought). Regardless of the reason, the cure was found to be worse than the (possible) disease. If you do end up with a leak there are so many other choices/procedures for resolving the problem that using tank slosh should not be considered. Scott McDaniels North Plains, OR These opinions and ideas are my own and may not reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bob DiMeo - Oracle <dimeob(at)powertel.com.au>
Subject: Simple Green
Date: Nov 07, 2000
No, the government said the weren't going to use it on THEIR planes. You can do whatever you want. In this case, I think I'll listen. Bob RV8 #423 > ---------- > From: kempthornes > Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 10:56 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Simple Green > > > > Apparently the government, in no uncertain terms, > > says DO NOT use Simple Green to clean your > > aircraft or aircraft parts. > > When my government tells me what to do, I bristle. > > hal > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
From: Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net>
Subject: Re: Stereo decks
I have the AI CD/Stereo Player in my RV-8 along with the PS-3000, and Dave Clark ENC Stereo headsets. Sounds really great on the ground and should work great in the air since it is designed for aircraft. I had a portable hooked into my flightcom intercom with SoftCom stereo headsets when I owned a C-172...it worked pretty good also. The AI is a nice unit that makes for a good installation...but it is expensive. > >Guys, >I am looking for any input some of you may have on installing a cd/fm radio >car stereo in your panels.....Any thoughts on success or vibration? Any >particular brand names that are good. I have info from one builder but was >wondering if any of you have succesfully installed. >The other option I see a lot is the portables on the side, I just thoughjt >it would be cleaner in the panel. >Thanks in advance. >Doug Bell >8QB...Canopy cut, working on the skirt..:) > > Jim Cimino RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL Reserved http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo (570)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RWPRV6A(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Don't forget to vote!
Couldn't have said it better myself. Keep spreading the word Vince. Ralph, RV-6A Canopy skirt. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
From: Ed Hobenshield <edhob(at)kermode.net>
Subject: Re:
> > >If you want to be sure that your credit card number isn't "given out over >the internet," you will have to stop using your card. Because half the >time you make a purchase in a store they swipe your card, and guess where >the number goes? > >Tedd McHenry Thanks Tedd, I needed that! Ed Hobenshield ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
From: Ed Hobenshield <edhob(at)kermode.net>
Subject: Don't forget to vote!
> > >Please do vote! > >-- >Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA >Network Administrator >Union Safe Deposit Bank >209-946-5116 > > Can't say how proud I feel !!!! Ed. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
From: Ed Hobenshield <edhob(at)kermode.net>
Subject: Re: It Flys!!
> > >Congrats, Mike I relive the feeling, even here in the " Bush " ( Kitwanga B.C. Canada ) Good Job !****. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
From: Ed Hobenshield <edhob(at)kermode.net>
Subject: Re: Don't forget to vote!
Mark Goldberg. Austin TX. home of the Prince who would be King Mark, Thanks.... It is well enjoyed, good stuff, King !!!! Ed. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Hudgins" <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Stereo decks
Date: Nov 06, 2000
Just followed the instructions and wiring diagram included with the Flightcom unit. To keep the impedance at correct levels and to keep from overdriving the intercom, you need to install a variable resistor, (I believe I used a 10K or 20K variable resistor) between the output leads of each channel and the intercom unit. I then adjusted for best sound quality. It's been a few years now, but if you would like more specific info, let me know and I'll dig it out. Another neat thing about the Flightcom, and others probably have this as well, is that you can isolate the passenger from radio transmissions and receptions while they continue to listen to the stereo. FYI, I use Peltor stereo headsets and have no complaints. Dave Hudgins Dave, How did you wire the stereo to the intercom? Greg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2000
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator Weight
Sam Buchanan wrote: > > > Charles Brame wrote: > > > > > > What is the year and/or part number for the Geo Metro/Sprint alternator? > > > > Charlie Brame > > RV-6A QB > > San Antonio > > > > ----------------------------------- > > > > > Ted, "lightweight" is relative! > > > > > > Put the Vans alternator in one hand and the standard, certificated, 60 > > > amp Motorcraft unit in the other and you will see why the ND is > > > "lightweight". > > > > > > Robin Hunt is running a tiny little 65 amp alternator in his RV8 that is > > > for a Geo Metro/Sprint. It is the smallest automotive alternator I have > > > seen and has internal regulation which you may or may not want. > > > > > > However, I doubt that you will find an alternator that weighs much less > > > than the Vans/ND unit. > > > > > > Good luck, > > > > > > Sam Buchanan (RV-6 with Vans alternator) > > > "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal > > > > > Charlie, I don't know the part number, but I doubt that it matters. Geo > Metros (Metri?) haven't been around very long. Just amble up to the > parts counter, tell the fellow you are interested in looking at a Geo > alternator, if he asks you what year tell him it doesn't matter because > it is for your RV. He will look kinda puzzled as he wonders how the > alternator can power a Winnebago, but don't let that discourage you. > Just tell him you are looking for the smallest Geo alternator he has. > > You can email Robin Hunt (RV-8) if you need more info: > > robinrmh(at)hiwaay.net > > Good luck! > > Sam Buchanan > They are great alternators I have used a ND out of a Chevy Sprint for over 10 years. I think they were also used in Suzuki Samuris'. I use the stock V pulley and the internal regulator, I know that using the internal regulator makes Bob K cringe but it works for me. My $45.00 wrecking yard alternator has worked for over 1000 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Emrath" <Emrath(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: f-635 position
Date: Nov 06, 2000
I have cut my hole for the bellcrank bolt using Frank Justice's notes. These were most helpful in locating the hole using cardboard templates as Frank describes. Marty in Brentwood TN. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary S." <gstrong(at)uswest.net> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 6:14 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: f-635 position > > I just put mine in last night and I referenced drawing 32 (right hand side > about the middle shows a cutout of F635). I looked at the drawing and it > appeared that I needed to be in the middle of the horizontal alluminum angle > on F629 and also the middle of the alluminum angle on F628. I drilled the > hole and everything mounted up fine and appears to be in alignment. > > Gary S. > RV6QB - starting on the tail > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert Dickson > Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 7:42 AM > To: rv list > Subject: RV-List: f-635 position > > > Once again I'm scratching my head, this time over the position of the > elevator bellcrank f-635. I can't seem to find the drawing that shows where > to drill for the bolt that mounts this bellcrank. I suppose it's possible > that its position is determined somehow by the pushrods, but that's not > obvious either. I'm also curious about a piece on a drawing labeled f-630 (I > think). Is it just a support/stiffener? Its dimensions/position aren't > obvious to me either. I'm working on a quickbuild. > > Thanks > Robert Dickson > RV-6A QB > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2000
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: Who is Matt(e) Dralle?? (Part Tres)
(Has anyone noticed I can't spell French numbers??) Make your contribution now because this gets pretty deep...... So if you have been following this saga, then you remember that we left Matt trying to come up with that ultimate invention to help his friends, THAT HE KNEW HE COULD COUNT ON! The years went by and Matt <=(optional "e" here) was feverishly working on that one invention that would be of great value to all of his friends that used it when Matt heard a voice from above say, " Hey Matt, clear out soul to make it safer." Well Matt didn't know what to make of such a revelation but he did know that if he could figure it out he would find the answer to his quest. Matt pondered the divine revelation. "Clear out soul to make it safer, Clear out soul to make it safer, Clear out soul to make it safer." Then it hit Matt like a ton of bricks..... The only way he could find out what this cryptic revelation meant was to enter Divinity School. So Matt applied to Vanderbuilt Divinity School where he met another very interesting new student named Algore. (Authors note: It was determined much later that the divine words that Matt had thought he had heard from above actually came from his roommate in the upstairs bathroom yelling down to Matt, "Hey Matt, we're out of toilet paper!" and not "Hey Matt, clear out soul to make it safer." We have no idea how the roommate took care of the immediate problem.) Well Matt and Algore hit it off right away at Ole Vandy. Algore told Matt how he saved several divisions from certain death during his shortened tour in Viet Nam which caused him so much mental anguish that he just knew Divinity School was the only way to "find his soul". Besides, being a rear echelon...ehh...puke was getting boring so Algore needed a change of scenery. Whatever the reason (and thanks to his dad) Algore found himself with this visionary from Livermore, California named Matt <=(optional "e" here) Dralle who was talking about computers and helping his friends and the ultimate in communications and all this stuff that just went in one ear and out the other of our simple minded Algore. But one thing little Algore remembered was Matt saying that it would be like an "international network", an Internet if you will, of people who could share experiences and make the world a better place. They could talk directly to each other through computers and prevent each other from making the same costly mistakes in life over and over again. They could use this international network to sell things they no longer needed and to make electrical parts and instruments available to their friends on this network. Why people could even use this network to get other peoples credit card numbers and buy all the things that they ever wanted! Even pay their phone bills with someone elses' credit card! What a country! And it beat trying to catch little red drops of water coming over Niagra Falls. And all of this wonderful communication at NO COST to the user unless he thought it was the right thing to do to pay something for it! I am sorry to say that Divinity school was to be a short chapter in Matt's life. After his good friend Algore flunked out of Divinity School and Matt realized that he was going to have to pay for his own beer from then on, Divinity School didn't seem to have the same appeal that it once had. To this day Matt still wonders what ever happened to his nutty and irresponsible friend Algore the party animal. He probably returned to his rural tobacco farming roots in Tennessee never to be heard from again. (We Hope!) So Matt decided to leave Divinity School and hitch hike up to New England before heading back to the left coast. He thought he might just visit a little burg called Kennebunkport before catching a bus back to Livermore................Enough nonsense for one night! To be continued............ SEE BELOW OR ALL THIS WAS FOR NAUGHT.............AL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Stereo decks SONY Memory Stick
In a message dated 11/6/2000 6:55:21 PM Central Standard Time, jorear(at)mari.net writes: << Has anyone had experience with the PDA's that the anywhere pilot GPS system uses such as the Casio or the Compaq, and the MP3 feature that they have? (I know.....here I go beating that subject to death!) I was wondering if it is on a par with the Sony memory stick system or any other MP3 player for that matter. Seems kinda neat to have your GPS, and tunes all in the same removable unit, not to mention all the features/benefits of having a PDA. Just wondering...... >> I dont know if that will work, I mean i Have a palm V and it doesnt run 2 programs at once. But then again I dont have the 2 things you mentioned hooked up so dont know for sure. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Simple Green
In a message dated 11/6/2000 7:03:07 PM Central Standard Time, billshook(at)mindspring.com writes: << I've been using it for years to clean motorcycle and race car parts. Hell, I use it on my cars paint to remove track rubber marks. I love the stuff...and always have at least a gallon around. I will continue to use it on the airplane when it's done. Bill -4 wings >> Well it pitted the aluminum parts on my motorcycle ( race bike) so I am not going to use it on my airplane. ALso the purple stuff someone else makes does to. Simple green isnt bad if you wash it all off, but i guess i didnt get it all and I wash the bike after i use simple green to remove the chain lube, so i would have thought i would have washed it all off ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Pedal Blocks
Date: Nov 08, 2000
Gary: I mounted my F-6116 Blocks 4 in. back from the Firewall and they are fine for me. I am 5' 10" and 177 lbs. Tom in Ohio (RV6-A-QB----Canopy Stuff) ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary S. <gstrong(at)uswest.net> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 7:48 PM Subject: RV-List: Rudder Pedal Blocks > > I'm getting ready to mount F6116 rudder pedal blocks and I can't seem to > find in the archives the location they should be mounted (distance from the > firewall or something similar). I did see a reference to someone drilling > several holes so that they can be moved later in the build process, but > still no dimensions for the holes. Can anyone give me an idea of what > worked for them? (I'm 5'9" - average height/build). > > thanks! > Gary S. - RV6AQB - on to the tail > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2000
From: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
Subject: EAA339 Chapter Cookout & Buddy Rides
All you can eat hot dogs/BBQ/salad/drinks $5.00 at EAA hangar east end of runway 28. (PVG) Portsmouth/Hampton Roads Airport, Virginia, about 15 nm west of Norfolk, VA Saturday, 11 Nov 2000. Weather will be PERFECT! Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Re: Stereo decks
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Doug, Throw your CD player into the same pile you tossed your ADF and NAV radios and get a portable MP3 player. Mount a stereo intercom system in your panel and use the stereo input jack that comes with it. All you need to do is plug the player into the jack and stick some Velcro on the player and bam, you're in business. Digital stereo music that won't skip. I certainly wouldn't waste valuable panel space in an -8 with a panel mounted, dinosaur CD player that costs much more, looks huge compares to the other instruments, and will likely skip anyway. (Unless your engine/prop is extremely smooth) Also make sure you buy some stereo headsets too. I have a PS-2000 stereo intercom with Lightspeed 25XL headsets. The music sounds great. Just one opinion. As always, to each their own. It's your bird. Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 Indianapolis (98 hours) ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Bell <dbell(at)manisteenational.com> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 5:13 PM Subject: RV-List: Stereo decks > > Guys, > I am looking for any input some of you may have on installing a cd/fm radio > car stereo in your panels.....Any thoughts on success or vibration? Any > particular brand names that are good. I have info from one builder but was > wondering if any of you have succesfully installed. > The other option I see a lot is the portables on the side, I just thoughjt > it would be cleaner in the panel. > Thanks in advance. > Doug Bell > 8QB...Canopy cut, working on the skirt..:) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Rudder Pedal Blocks
From: "Robert Dickson" <bubba(at)coastalnet.com>
I just did this. The spacing called for on the drawing is 4" from the firewall, more or less. I'm 6' and mounted mine 3" from firewall. Sorry, I can't remember the drawing no. with that dimension, but it can't be too hard to find if I found it. Robert Dickson RV-6AQB ready to cut the panel ---------- >From: "Gary S." <gstrong(at)uswest.net> >To: "Rv-List" >Subject: RV-List: Rudder Pedal Blocks >Date: Mon, Nov 6, 2000, 7:48 PM > > > I'm getting ready to mount F6116 rudder pedal blocks and I can't seem to > find in the archives the location they should be mounted (distance from the > firewall or something similar). I did see a reference to someone drilling > several holes so that they can be moved later in the build process, but > still no dimensions for the holes. Can anyone give me an idea of what > worked for them? (I'm 5'9" - average height/build). > > thanks! > Gary S. - RV6AQB - on to the tail > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Stereo decks
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Stereo decks Thread-Index: AcBIxUFrNQHDhyM3S3eCJLo5nAf0DwAANiww
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
I've got a panel-mount Sony car cd-player, and if I had to do it over again, I'd mount a mp3 player somewhere out of the way. The cd player works great, never skipped a beat. I get a lot of comments about it like "a cd-player...that's cool." Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 53 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stereo decks-Bubble wrap & Velcro
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Nov 07, 2000
11/07/2000 09:28:33 AM A Bubble wrap pad (the one with the small bubbles) cut out of a large bubble wrap sheet from some part shipped to me works great as a shock absorbing pad for my CD. Never skips, even during landings. I also used a 4 x4 inch piece fo velcro as a shock absorbing pad. The knappy hair on the Velcro and the hooks provided good isolation. Both fixes work great on my 39 dollar BJ's CD..... Jim Cimino (at)matronics.com on 11/06/2000 09:23:04 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: Re: RV-List: Stereo decks I have the AI CD/Stereo Player in my RV-8 along with the PS-3000, and Dave Clark ENC Stereo headsets. Sounds really great on the ground and should work great in the air since it is designed for aircraft. I had a portable hooked into my flightcom intercom with SoftCom stereo headsets when I owned a C-172...it worked pretty good also. The AI is a nice unit that makes for a good installation...but it is expensive. > >Guys, >I am looking for any input some of you may have on installing a cd/fm radio >car stereo in your panels.....Any thoughts on success or vibration? Any >particular brand names that are good. I have info from one builder but was >wondering if any of you have succesfully installed. >The other option I see a lot is the portables on the side, I just thoughjt >it would be cleaner in the panel. >Thanks in advance. >Doug Bell >8QB...Canopy cut, working on the skirt..:) > > Jim Cimino RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL Reserved http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo (570)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 3m Wheel - Hot parts Temperature
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Nov 07, 2000
11/07/2000 09:29:41 AM I used a thermocouple to verify the local temperature for a grinding and was very surprised at the temp of the metal at 1/2 inch from the stone wheel. Try this experiment when your bored. Grind a piece of 4041 chrome molley scrap from Vans kit. I can get it to glow dull red with average pressure (bearing down on the stone). Ain't scientific my any measure. The 3-M wheels are made up of different material then the stone. Dull red is about 1400 degrees if I remember........ "Cliff Begnaud" (at)matronics.com on 11/06/2000 04:18:20 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: RV-List: Re: 3m Wheel - Hot parts? Thanks to those that provided input on this question. I posted the following question to "Ask the Guru" on the anvilfire web site, see the response at the end. Cliff I'm building an experimental Kit airplane, mostly out of 2024 t-3 aluminum in thicknesses from .016 - .063. Also, some parts are 6061 T6 in thicknesses from .125 - .1875" I often have to deburr or slightly reshape parts (removing no more than 1/16" of material). This is done with a 3m Scotch brite wheel mounted on a grinder (3400 rpm). The parts will often get hot enough that I can not hold them barehanded. Using a bath towel is enough isulation from the heat. My question is; how hot can I get the aluminum before changing the temper and thus affecting strength and resiliancy of the material? Does the scotchbrite wheel (7A med., I think) get the aluminum too hot? Is it ok to cool the parts by quenching in water? I'm a complete dummy when it comes to metals, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Response: Aluminium: Cliff, The annealing temperature for 2024 and 6061 is 750F. Precipitation hardening occurs at 320F. However brief periods at this temperature while working should not have a detrimental affect. 320F is very close to the char temperature of paper and cotton. So if you can hold the metal with a rag then its most likely not hot enough to have any effect. Quenching in water is fine. Especialy to prevent overheating. Non-ferrous materials are generally quenched from the annealing temperature to soften. ________________________________________________________________________________ User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Building and Flying Airplanes
From: "Denis (Bum) Walsh" <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net>
on 11/7/00 6:40, Robert Dickson at bubba(at)coastalnet.com wrote: > > Robert Dickson RV-6A QB > (and tired of all the political talk on the list - I'd rather talk about > building/flying airplanes) What a novel idea!! Why don't we start a site that is for RV builders and then we won't have all this weird stuff? Have you noticed (as I have) that over the years the builders and flyers have diminished while those who like to see their opinions in print on every conceivable subject, have increased and multiplied? Of course here I am doing the same thing. Thanks to the "get out and vote" message anyway. As a Democrat who was thinking of skipping it, I was greatly motivated to go vote which I just did. Thank you so much my republican friend. Don't you think for a minute you were not heard. Denis L Walsh ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Don't forget to vote!
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: Nov 07, 2000
11/07/2000 09:17:38 AM >I don't want anyone's political thoughts on this RV-list . As far as you >thinking we need to hear your political inclinations-if you decided we ALL >NEED to know your feelings - then it is obvious we should NOT vote for who >say because this is NO PLACE for political discussions. Your judgement is >clearly suspect if you feel otherwise. >Mark Goldberg. Austin TX. home of the Prince who would be King You tell em Mark! Talk about redundant. Telling this list to vote is about like telling Eskimos to wear parkas. Next thing you'll be telling us to not run with scissors, and take those beans out of your ears, and don't talk with your mouth full... Let's stick to building and humor and leave the more serious issues like religion and politics to flyin round tables. - Jim Andrews RV-8A ( just trying to finish my darn airplane ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Hawkins <lhawkins(at)giant.com>
Subject: F-462 attach to F-408
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Can anyone tell me how to attach the F-462 aft baggage compartment bulkhead to the f-408 fuse bulkhead? Or should it only be attached to the floor F-435 skin? Larry Hawkins RV-4 fuse. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Stereo decks-Bubble wrap & Velcro
In a message dated 11/7/2000 8:33:47 AM Central Standard Time, pcondon(at)csc.com writes: << A Bubble wrap pad (the one with the small bubbles) cut out of a large bubble wrap sheet from some part shipped to me works great as a shock absorbing pad for my CD. Never skips, even during landings. I also used a 4 x4 inch piece fo velcro as a shock absorbing pad. The knappy hair on the Velcro and the hooks provided good isolation. Both fixes work great on my 39 dollar BJ's CD... >> Actually a solid mounted CD player will skip less then one that is done in stuff like this. I used to install car stereos and compete in car stereo compeittion so I have some idea of what I am talking about here. You actually want to mount the CD player as tight as possible in the front and back of the unit. Many people forget the back mount and thats why they have problems with it skipping. The only thing i would add for a airplane would be rubber washers to isolate some of the airframe vibration when I mount mine in my F1 rocket. Also one thing to remember is that if your going to mount the CD player under or near your radio stack, make sure you have a fan blowing air on it. CD players get very hot ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2000
From: bcbraem(at)home.com
Subject: Re: Stereo decks
It would take me years to store my classical and jazz CDs to MP3 format. Panasonic model CQ-DPG600EUC has a 10 second solid-state card that stores and error corrects any music defects from any skips that occur during playing--called "Anti-Shock Memory"--sort of like a real small MP3 device that is constantly being reloaded. Never have heard a skipped note, yet (230 hrs). Boyd. > > > I've got a panel-mount Sony car cd-player, and if I had to do it over > again, I'd mount a mp3 player somewhere out of the way. The cd player > works great, never skipped a beat. I get a lot of comments about it > like "a cd-player...that's cool." > > Bob Japundza > RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 53 hours > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: Has anyone cut inspection holes into the top of the RV?
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Steve, After replacing a GPS with a newer model, I found that lying on my back in the cockpit to get at the rear of the radio stack was completely unacceptable. I proceeded in cutting a 6" X 6" inspection panel in the deck in front of my tip-up canopy for much easier access to the radio stack. There should be no strength loss as long as you properly install the double. Since my installation three years ago, I have not seen any structural issues. If I were to do it again, I would make the hole longer (towards the firewall) for improved access. I will probably add more access holes for access to other parts behind the panel. My second RV-6 will probably have four holes for access to all areas behind the panel. (This is much easier to do in the construction stage....) A word of advice when making this change. This approach works better than a completely removable instrument panel as there isn't the need for all the extra connectors between the panel and the airframe wiring. Also, when installing the doubler, use that leftover Pro-Seal between the doubler and the skin to make that part of the installation waterproof. For the cover gasket, I've found a very thin silicon sheet (similar to those commercially available rocker cover gaskets, but much thinner) that make the cover and screws completely water proof, and keeps the cover flush with the skin..... To date, I've never had a leak....... Fred Stucklen N925RV (1650 hrs/7 Yrs) E. Windsor, CT 06088 WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com ___ From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> Subject: RV-List: Has anyone cut inspection holes into the top of the RV? I saw a RV-6 at the Fulton County, NY, fly in that had inspection holes cut into the skin forward of the canopy. I appeared that the builder had made removable panels so that he could service avionics and what not without having to stand on his head inside the cockpit. I thought that this was a neat idea. He cut three holes. One in the middle and one on each side. The panels were held in place by screwed down covers much like the aileron bellcrank access covers in the wing. The holes were big enough to put two hands (my two hands anyway) down into the spaghetti of wires and tubes behind the panel. Has anyone else done this? Does it lead to cracking or loss of strength? Steve Soule Huntington, VT RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stereo decks
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: Nov 07, 2000
11/07/2000 10:27:54 AM >Throw your CD player into the same pile you tossed your ADF and NAV radios >and get a portable MP3 player. Mount a stereo intercom system in your panel Randy:Been giving this some serious thought. I too am lusting after a portable MP3 for my bird. Which make and model did you go with? Thanks, - Jim Andrews RV-8A ( cowl finish and what's inside ) O-360 Sensenich 85 N89JA reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Building and Flying Airplanes
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Denis and Robert and others: > > What a novel idea!! Why don't we start a site that is for RV builders and > then we won't have all this weird stuff? > Too late to change this now. I'm not an American but I have put up with many dozens of people talking up the Nov 7 election. Payback time is here. I want to now talk up the Canadian election later this month. I appreciate all the Aussies, Brazilians, Fins, South Africans and other non-Americans who will also patiently wait their turn. Get the Point?? Ernest Kells RV-9A - Building Wings, Planning: O-235 Wood Prop SaultSte. Marie, Ontario ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Knicholas2(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Stereo decks - rid ADF, Nav radio???
In a message dated 11/7/2000 8:34:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com writes: << Throw your CD player into the same pile you tossed your ADF and NAV radios >and get a portable MP3 player >> ...so what do you recommend instead? I kind of like to know where I am going and have ATC to talk to! Kim Nicholas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: 2000 List Fund Raiser Underway...
Hi Listers, Just a quick reminder that the 2000 Email List Fund Raiser is underway and participation so far as been good. If you haven't made your contribution yet, won't you take a moment and make one today? The continued operation and improvement of these services are directly enabled by the generous contributions of its members. You may make a contribution with either your Visa or Mastercard using the Matronics SSL Secure website at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or with a personal check to: c/o Matt Dralle Matronics PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551 Thank you to all those that have already made a contribution! Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft Great minds discuss ideas, Average minds discuss events, Small minds discuss people... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2000
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: Political Humor.........
Okay, Okay, Okay, ........Okay......... (That was my best Joe Pesci impression.......) I can take a hint........smack..........COOL IT with the political angle of the RV-List fund raiser.......guess we'll have to leave Matt hitchhiking his way to Maine and we'll never know how he got into this business. However what we do know is that Matt needs OUR support to keep this list running. He has tons of expenses regarding maintenance and upgrading of the list hardware and software. Matt has turned down many lucrative offers for control of the List and the placement of advertising on the posts. (I could just see my post coming up with an advertisement for Kotex or Trojan's on it........) Anyway I guess maybe if we want to keep this list like it is so we can snipe and take shots at each other, then we sure better make a contribution to this fund raiser. Now if it's going to take the guilt angle again, then I'm up to it. If you want to keep it light and humorous, I'm up to that too. If someone has a particular political view, and you have the opposite view then just realize that you cancel each other out and you can buy each other a beer at the next fly-in you meet at. Your still both Americans I hope! Your probably not going to change any minds by posting your political views to the list. It's not the end of the world. Boy we sure have gotten into a real serious mood about politics in the last 8 years. I guess the divide and conquer tactics are working. The have's / the have nots', the rich / the poor, the workers / the big corporations, the special interests / the people (aren't the people a special interest too? Who are the special interests but a bunch of "people" with ....oh my gosh....a special interest!) Aren't we a special interest because we love flying? Doesn't AOPA and EAA lobby for us in Washington??? I'm sure you'll want to vote for someone who won't listen to YOUR "Special Interest" that you probably involuntarily contributed to either through dues or memberships....... If you really think about it, it's really about who is either going to spend more or going to spend less of YOUR money and you can't even say NO to spending any of it!....SOOOOOOOO......While you still have some of that money left in your own pocket AND you still have the right to decide how you're going to spend it, HOW ABOUT SENDING A LITTLE OF IT MATT'S WAY????????? DUHHHH.......................HELLO !!!!!!!!! IT'S REALLY IN YOUR OWN BEST "SPECIAL" INTEREST ISN'T IT???? AND IT'S VOLUNTARY!!!! Now just for the record I was going to try to make "W" out as a pretty lame choice too in the >NOT< so upcoming episode of "Who Is Matt(e) Dralle??" (Part Quatro), ................. just to be fair and unbalanced! AL (See Below) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Stereo decks - rid ADF, Nav radio???
>>so what do you recommend instead? I kind of like to know where I am going and have ATC to talk to! Last time I checked I used the COM radio to talk to ATC and the GPS to know where I am going. Sorry I couldn't resist this one. -Rob Hickman -N401RH MP3 Equipped ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "<Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com>
(Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id for" ; Tue, 07 Nov 2000 13:59:37.-0500(at)matronics.com
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Has anyone cut inspection holes into the top of the
RV? Some of the locals round these parts put their NACA ducts (RV-6) in with nutplates. This gives you an easy way to get an arm inside to yank the spagetti. They swear by it. FWIW. Eric Henson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JusCash(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Stereo decks-Bubble wrap & Velcro
Jim, I've been looking for sheet Velcro. Where did you find it? All I can come up with are strips. Cash Copeland QB #60075 RV6 N46FC (Reserved) Oakland, Ca In a message dated 11/7/00 6:33:47 AM Pacific Standard Time, pcondon(at)csc.com writes: << A Bubble wrap pad (the one with the small bubbles) cut out of a large bubble wrap sheet from some part shipped to me works great as a shock absorbing pad for my CD. Never skips, even during landings. I also used a 4 x4 inch piece fo velcro as a shock absorbing pad. The knappy hair on the Velcro and the hooks provided good isolation. Both fixes work great on my 39 dollar BJ's CD..... Jim Cimino (at)matronics.com on 11/06/2000 09:23:04 PM >> Cash Copeland QB #60075 RV6 N46FC (Reserved) Oakland, Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Stereo decks
Actually you can have the best of both worlds with the Aiwa cd player. It will play MP3s that are recorded on CD's. ALso has a anti skip memory. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Has anyone cut inspection holes into the top of the RV?
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Has anyone cut inspection holes into the top of the RV? Thread-Index: AcBI2974uooCrn+QTkSk5qncytnllwAGVJKg
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
If I were doing it over, I would put the "between-the-firewall-and-the-sub-panel" access holes on the firewall, like Beechcraft does on the Bonanza's, and fasten the cover with camlocs. That way you don't have to worry about water leaking in or aesthetics. Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 53 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stereo decks-Bubble wrap & Velcro
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Nov 07, 2000
11/07/2000 03:09:15 PM I found some in the McMaster-Carr catalog ( Don't bring one of these catalogs into the bathroom...you'll never leave) and at the Philadelphia Boat Show. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JusCash(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Stereo decks-Bubble wrap & Velcro
How can I get a catalog? Cash Copeland In a message dated 11/7/00 12:14:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, pcondon(at)csc.com writes: <> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com>
Subject: Stereo decks-Bubble wrap & Velcro
Date: Nov 07, 2000
800-645-7270 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of JusCash(at)AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 12:23 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Stereo decks-Bubble wrap & Velcro How can I get a catalog? Cash Copeland In a message dated 11/7/00 12:14:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, pcondon(at)csc.com writes: <> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com>
Subject: Stereo decks-Bubble wrap & Velcro
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Ooops---that number is for MSC Here's McMaster Carr 562-692-5911 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of JusCash(at)AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 12:23 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Stereo decks-Bubble wrap & Velcro How can I get a catalog? Cash Copeland In a message dated 11/7/00 12:14:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, pcondon(at)csc.com writes: <> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Has anyone cut inspection holes into the top of the
RV?
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Bob Good idea, but I no longer have room on my firewall. It used to be sooo big and now is sooo crowded. On the other hand, the skin forward of the panel is still off on my plane and just perfect for the cutting of holes. Steve Soule -----Original Message----- If I were doing it over, I would put the "between-the-firewall-and-the-sub-panel" access holes on the firewall, like Beechcraft does on the Bonanza's, and fasten the cover with camlocs. That way you don't have to worry about water leaking in or aesthetics. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wilson, James Mike" <james.mike.wilson(at)intel.com>
"'dane3(at)ATTGLOBAL.NET'"
Subject: Whirlwind Props ?
Date: Nov 07, 2000
I used see the Acro Tech group when they were getting started. They did allot of beta testing and comparing of things like 4 cyl engines, exhaust, and such including props. One of the test pilots had tested all the current props at that time Whirlwind, Hoffman, MT and Hartzell composite. He ranked them from an aerobatic perspective with MT above Whirlwind and Hoffman and Hartzell above them all. However, the Hartzell composite is not recommended for 4 cyl engines due to vibration. The primary data point they were interested in was pulling thrust at low speed (i.e. vertical line). One key draw back to wood blades is the required thickness at the blade root. This reduces efficiency. Another down side is service life. If you plan much flipping vertical stuff, I'm told MT is probably the best out there. If you plan to spend time cruising, stay with standard metal Hartzell from Vans, it is more efficient all around (price, service, performance). RV4 being painted Mike -----Original Message----- From: dane3(at)ATTGLOBAL.NET [mailto:dane3(at)ATTGLOBAL.NET] Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 8:24 AM Subject: RV-List: Wirlwind Props ? Does anyone out there have any knowledge of Wirlwind Props? They are claiming that they are lighter smoother and will holdup. I talked to them on the phone yesterday. They said, they are developing a three bladed prop that should not slow down an RV yet have the benefits of a three bladed prop in regards to climb, noise and smoothness. Dane Sheahen RV8a (fuel lines) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Bending main fuse longerons
Hey ya'll Im getting ready to make the bends in my main fuse longerons, any tips, what to do's or what not to do's would be appreciated. Im building a 9, but I think the 6 longerons are similar. Thanks in advance Kevin Shannon -9A fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Bending main fuse longerons
Date: Nov 07, 2000
>>Hey ya'll >Im getting ready to make the bends in my main fuse longerons, any tips, >what >to do's or what not to do's would be appreciated. Im building a 9, but I >think the 6 longerons are similar. >Thanks in advance >Kevin Shannon >-9A fuse Measure and mark the bends accurately, of course. Clamp longeron in the bench vise so the bend point is right at the edge of the PADDED jaws. Use precisely applied man-torque to make the bend with your hands very near the bend point. Small adjustments can be done with a mallet or deadblow hammer. Measure the bend angles with a protractor. Use the protractor to help visualize the amount of bend you're trying to achieve before making the bends. You don't want to go way overboard on the bend and have to come back to get it right. Lots of bending=work hardening the material. Not desirable. You'll do fine. Wait till you get to take a big a$$ed hammer to something that needs some severe brutality to submit. My wife saw me flailing away with a five pound sledge hammer to make the lower longeron twists and bends on my -8. "Uh oh...this can't be good.." was her comment. :) Have fun, Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stereo decks-Bubble wrap & Velcro
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Nov 07, 2000
11/07/2000 04:29:42 PM The URL is http://www.mcmaster.com. I find the catalog to be better then the site 'cause I can thumb thru the massive catalog & get ideas. They literally have everything.....Well close. Call them & get the catalog. The phone number is on the home page. JusCash(at)AOL.COM@matronics.com on 11/07/2000 03:23:09 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: Re: RV-List: Stereo decks-Bubble wrap & Velcro How can I get a catalog? Cash Copeland In a message dated 11/7/00 12:14:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, pcondon(at)csc.com writes: <> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Re: Stereo decks - rid ADF, Nav radio???
Date: Nov 07, 2000
I didn't say "Throw your Comm radio away!" If it makes you feel better to navigate with an ADF and a NAV, then do it! Me, I'll cruise along with my GPS and a map as backup. Of course, I don't fly IFR. Kim, you're not having trouble finding needles for your album turntable are you? (Just kidding) Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: <Knicholas2(at)AOL.COM> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 11:41 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Stereo decks - rid ADF, Nav radio??? > > In a message dated 11/7/2000 8:34:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com writes: > > << Throw your CD player into the same pile you tossed your ADF and NAV radios > >and get a portable MP3 player >> > > ...so what do you recommend instead? I kind of like to know where I am going > and have ATC to talk to! > > Kim Nicholas > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2000
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Bending main fuse longerons
--- Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM wrote: > > Hey ya'll > Im getting ready to make the bends in my main fuse longerons, any > tips, what > to do's or what not to do's would be appreciated. Im building a 9, > but I > think the 6 longerons are similar. A couple of things. 1) Decide if you want to go with the factory profile or straighten it out. Basically the choice is between leaving the canopy side straight and making the canopy side skirts easier to fit, or staying with the factory profile and having a harder time with the skirts. I chose a mid-point. Mine are not straight, but are neither fully bent per plans. Have not made skirts yet, so cannot say if it helped. 2) Regardless which way you go, be sure you make your bends in small increments - that is to say, don't make the bend in one or two places, bend the angle a little bit every couple of inches. 3) Clamp them together, back to back, and bend them together. Expect to have to lean on it some. :) Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)micron.net>
Subject: Re: Stereo decks
Date: Nov 07, 2000
I have a very similar setup in mine. How did you hook up the speaker wires? The Flightcom intercom has to have a common ground for both speaker inputs or else the speaker wires have to go through mini transformers before going to the intercom. I was unable to find a stereo of any kind that still uses a common ground for the speakers. How did you hook yours up? I went through the transformers, but it seems to degrade the sound somewhat. Also I didn't even bother with an antenna and it still works great. It's amazing how many stations you can pull in at 12,000'... Ed Bundy - Eagle, ID RV6A, 0320-D1a (160hp) Sensenich 70x78, N427EM, 350+hrs. ebundy(at)micron.net > I installed a Pioneer AM/FM CD player in the panel of my -6A and it has > worked great. Vibration has never been a problem with the playback of the > CD. I also use a Flightcom intercom which also works well with the stereo. > Automatic mute when receiving either passenger or radio transmissions. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JusCash(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Stereo decks-Bubble wrap & Velcro
THANKS Cash Copeland QB #60075 RV6 N46FC (Reserved) Oakland, Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2000
From: "Gary S." <gstrong(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Pedal Blocks
Thanks for all the info from everyone. Several of you mentioned dimensions (as in 4" back from firewall). Is this to the center of the first hole or center of the block? Gary S. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom & Cathy Ervin Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 4:08 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder Pedal Blocks Gary: I mounted my F-6116 Blocks 4 in. back from the Firewall and they are fine for me. I am 5' 10" and 177 lbs. Tom in Ohio (RV6-A-QB----Canopy Stuff) ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary S. <gstrong(at)uswest.net> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 7:48 PM Subject: RV-List: Rudder Pedal Blocks > > I'm getting ready to mount F6116 rudder pedal blocks and I can't seem to > find in the archives the location they should be mounted (distance from the > firewall or something similar). I did see a reference to someone drilling > several holes so that they can be moved later in the build process, but > still no dimensions for the holes. Can anyone give me an idea of what > worked for them? (I'm 5'9" - average height/build). > > thanks! > Gary S. - RV6AQB - on to the tail > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Imfairings(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Fairing the Rudder Horm and Tie-Down Ring on RV6A
John, I am going to build molds to do the cable fairing, and I will look at the tie down ring while I'm at it. The problem is time, currently doing wing fairings on an RV-8 and the man wants his airplane back, damn poor attitude, can't blame him though. Don't laugh, I think they can be bonded on with 3M foam tape. I will let you know when I get them. I hope by Christmas. Bob Fairings Etc. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Bending main fuse longerons
In a message dated 11/7/00 1:02:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM writes: << Im getting ready to make the bends in my main fuse longerons >> I'm sure you will get lots of advice on this but the main thing is bend them together whatever else you do. I followed George O's advice from his tape and did mine together until I decided at the last minute to make some separate adjustments. It took me a week to recover from that. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, working on canopy installation ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Knicholas2(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Stereo decks - rid ADF, Nav radio???
In a message dated 11/7/2000 8:34:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com writes: << Throw your CD player into the same pile you tossed your ADF and NAV radios >and get a portable MP3 player >> ...so what do you recommend instead? I kind of like to know where I am going and have ATC to talk to! Kim Nicholas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Emrath" <Emrath(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Bending main fuse longerons
Date: Nov 07, 2000
I'm pretty athletic and at 185 lbs and "Expect to have to lean on it some" is an understatement. It was like a work out at the gym over a couple of nights for me. But it does get hot in Nashville. Go at is slow is gooooooood advice. I set it up in the vice using a home made piece of moon shaped hardwood with a notch in the middle to place the legs into of the back-to-back clamped longeron angles and bent them around the hardwood moon. Only used the vice to make the first straight bends. I used a step stool to get up over the angles and put my weight on them. I think a home made "tube" bender might work, but didn't care to explore making such a device. As far as I know, mine came out true to the templates. I did put a small bulge in the fuselage sides intentionally so they are not perfectly straight sides, but they are mirror images. Van's mentioned this in the manual, and to make the bulkhead fit, you need to do this. Alternatively, if building straight sides, the bulkheads need to be built to the longerons as you go and don't pre-assemble them, just clamp them in place. Don't know if I will have an trouble mounting the sliding canopy, I'll see later. Marty in Brentwood TN. RV6A fuselage in jig. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Thompson" <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 4:45 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Bending main fuse longerons > > > --- Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM wrote: > > > > Hey ya'll > > Im getting ready to make the bends in my main fuse longerons, any > > tips, what > > to do's or what not to do's would be appreciated. Im building a 9, > > but I > > think the 6 longerons are similar. > > > A couple of things. > > 1) Decide if you want to go with the factory profile or straighten it > out. Basically the choice is between leaving the canopy side straight > and making the canopy side skirts easier to fit, or staying with the > factory profile and having a harder time with the skirts. > > I chose a mid-point. Mine are not straight, but are neither fully bent > per plans. Have not made skirts yet, so cannot say if it helped. > > > 2) Regardless which way you go, be sure you make your bends in small > increments - that is to say, don't make the bend in one or two places, > bend the angle a little bit every couple of inches. > > > 3) Clamp them together, back to back, and bend them together. Expect > to have to lean on it some. > :) > > > Mike Thompson > Austin, TX > -6 N140RV (Reserved) > Canopy > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2000
From: Frank and Dorothy <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Message to Frank "Bunny" Van der Hulst
John Lawson wrote: > Frank, there might be a problem with your web page...I've tried to access it two days in > a row, and all I get is the header "Frank's Home Page". You might want to take a look > at it...by the way, THANK YOU for all the hard work you've put into posting and updating > the instructions. It's one hell of a great reference! Hi John, Which page were you trying to get? There's two mirrors of Web site on the Net -- http://gringo.whanganui.ac.nz/personal/frankv/rv/bunny and http://members.nbci.com/frankv/rv/bunny/ Both contain the some information. There's also a redirector -- http://fly.to/bunnysguide redirects to my Web site at work (whanganui.ac.nz). We have been having some network problems there over the last couple of days, and, as you say, my Web page isn't working at the moment. I'll tell our IT manager. I just checked the NBCI (aka Xoom) page -- something odd is happening there, and the menu doesn't display. I don't know why. A quick solution is to turn OFF Javascript in your browser -- a non-Javascript menu will display. I'll look into what's wrong with the Javascript later this week, probably Friday. I'll update the list with progress as it happens. Frank. (Keeper of "The Bunny's Guide to RV Building") ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2000
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: My favorite topic.......ME!
I recently received the following message from a fellow RV-Lister: Please, in your next post, give us the phonetic spelling of your name (Last name, that is. Al we can handle. Heard it often recently.) so when we Listers get together we know we are all laughing at the same semi-hysterical series on the valuable Matt. (Would call him "invaluable," but that could send a message that Listers don't need to get up off their wallets.) Marge Well Marge I can't thank you enough for that message. Your's was one of two messages that let me know that anyone was reading those posts. I was beginning to believe that the "delete" buttons of Listers were heating up to dangerous levels. You know if a lot of people on the same Internet list hit the delete button on the same message at the same time, the sender can hear a loud flushing sound coming from his modem. I was about to buy a months supply of Tidy Bowl for my modem until I received your message. About the pronunciation of my name. It's really not all that difficult if you haven't washed your tongue lately. (As in: "Just washed my tongue and can't do a thing with it.") It 's Mo - jzis - ik Yea that's the ticket.......Mojzisik! Wait a minute. That doesn't tell you much does it?.....Let's try it a different way. Let's make a deal. I'll type my name on a line below.......you pronounce it out loud to yourself. Then repeat it 3 times out loud. If you don't pronounce it correctly then you HAVE to make your contribution to Matt.............NOW! Here's the name: Mojzisik Pronounce it 3 times out loud. If you know me from Oshkosh or some where else you had better have made your contribution already so you can cheat, but don't tell anyone else. Okay now scroll down and read the instructions on how to properly pronounce it. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . STOP......... Relax your mouth first. Now say the word "Majestic". Okay now remember exactly how you pronounced "majestic" and drop the "T". Just say "majesic". You can lean toward "mojesic" with the "o" sound and your okay. If that is how you pronounced the name above three times then your off the hook for now. On the other hand if you have one ounce of honesty and you haven't made your contribution to the list yet, ante up and write the check or pull out the old credit card and make it right. See the Tag line following this message for instructions on where to contribute. Also add a note to Matt and tell him the name game did you in. If you guys and gals are at all honest, I expect to see a bump in contributions today! Thanks again Marge for the question. AL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Emrath" <Emrath(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Pedal Blocks
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Is your are building a Rv6, check out drawing 43a, bottom right, SECTION B-B. I't 4" from firewall to the front edge of the F6115/6 blocks, "variable for more or less leg room". Marty in Brentwood TN. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary S." <gstrong(at)uswest.net> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 7:10 PM Subject: Re:RV-List: Rudder Pedal Blocks > > Thanks for all the info from everyone. Several of you mentioned dimensions > (as in 4" back from firewall). Is this to the center of the first hole or > center of the block? > > > Gary S. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom & Cathy > Ervin > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 4:08 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder Pedal Blocks > > > Gary: I mounted my F-6116 Blocks 4 in. back from the Firewall and they are > fine for me. I am 5' 10" and 177 lbs. > Tom in Ohio (RV6-A-QB----Canopy Stuff) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gary S. <gstrong(at)uswest.net> > To: Rv-List > Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 7:48 PM > Subject: RV-List: Rudder Pedal Blocks > > > > > > I'm getting ready to mount F6116 rudder pedal blocks and I can't seem to > > find in the archives the location they should be mounted (distance from > the > > firewall or something similar). I did see a reference to someone drilling > > several holes so that they can be moved later in the build process, but > > still no dimensions for the holes. Can anyone give me an idea of what > > worked for them? (I'm 5'9" - average height/build). > > > > thanks! > > Gary S. - RV6AQB - on to the tail > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Luster" <rlluster(at)msn.com>
Subject: RV9 quality
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Listers and lurkers, I am in the process of assembling the wing skins and the wing leading edge. I just had to make a statement of how impressed I am with the quality of Vans pre drilling of all of the mating parts. If you were questioning the difficulty level of the RV9, it has been greatly reduced by the quality of workmenship supplied by Van's. I have been in the aerospace business for over 25 years and the quality of Van's work is state of the Art. Richard Luster Arlington, Wash RV9, wings, fuse on order ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2000
From: David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: F-462 attach to F-408
Larry: The plans are a little hard to follow. the F-462 portion, Radius top to fit onto the F-408 bulkhead, just sits there. It is supported by the F-435, aft baggage floor. It is held in by nutplates on the Mid Langeron F-435 and also nuplates on the flange of the F-434. They show an angle riveted to the F-434 to allow the attachment of those nutplates. I just bent a flange which was much quicker and lighter. There is little strength requirements at this point. Hope that helps. Aint it fun!!! Dave Aronson RV4 N504RV FWF- 90% to go Larry Hawkins wrote: > > > Can anyone tell me how to attach the F-462 aft baggage compartment bulkhead > to the f-408 fuse bulkhead? Or should it only be attached to the floor F-435 > skin? > > Larry Hawkins RV-4 fuse. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Homebuilt-List: 2000 List Fund Raiser Underway...
--> Homebuilt-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) Hi Listers, Just a quick reminder that the 2000 Email List Fund Raiser is underway and participation so far as been good. If you haven't made your contribution yet, won't you take a moment and make one today? The continued operation and improvement of these services are directly enabled by the generous contributions of its members. You may make a contribution with either your Visa or Mastercard using the Matronics SSL Secure website at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or with a personal check to: c/o Matt Dralle Matronics PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551 Thank you to all those that have already made a contribution! Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft Great minds discuss ideas, Average minds discuss events, Small minds discuss people... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Oke" <Jim_Oke(at)mbnet.mb.ca>
Subject: Re: Bending main fuse longerons
Date: Nov 08, 2000
I have bent two sets of RV longerons; a -3 almost 20 years ago now and a -6 last summer. My advice would be to clamp the longerons in a good strong vise (suitably padded jaws, of course) and then clamp a longish (6 ft plus) 2 x 4 piece of wood or a similar metal bar to the longerons. The idea with the long bar is to provide some mechanical advantage to make sure that the longerons bend where you want them to bend (that is, at the point the bar is clamped) rather than someplace in between where you might be pushing on the longeron alone and the vise. The technique I used was to push slowly until I felt the longeron "yield" just a bit (there is a perceptible physical feel to this) and then move the longeron in the vise and reposition the bar. A longer bar will give a better "feel" and better control in getting the bend done. Jim Oke Winnipeg, Canada RV-3 C-FIAM RV6A C-???? ----- Original Message ----- From: <Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 3:00 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Bending main fuse longerons > > Hey ya'll > Im getting ready to make the bends in my main fuse longerons, any tips, what > to do's or what not to do's would be appreciated. Im building a 9, but I > think the 6 longerons are similar. > Thanks in advance > Kevin Shannon > -9A fuse > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 08, 2000
Subject: Re: Nosegear attach bolt on RV-6A
In a message dated 11/7/00 8:00:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, don(at)dmack.net writes: << I was mounting my nose gear on the 6A tonight. The predrilled bolt hole in the engine mount appears to be to high. When I insert the bolt, I can only get a nut without a washer between the engine mount and the firewall and even then it is pressing into the firewall slightly. Is it acceptable to install one or two washers between the engine mount and the firewall to move the firewall forward? >> Try using a locking nut of the MS21042 series. These are all metal, as all of the nuts in the engine compartment should be, and are shorter than a nyloc nut. There are also light series AN960 flat washers. One could also point out that this fastener is loaded entirely in shear and could use the shorter profile shear nut. -GV (RV-6A N1GV) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Zenith-List: 2000 List Fund Raiser Underway...
--> Zenith-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) Hi Listers, Just a quick reminder that the 2000 Email List Fund Raiser is underway and participation so far as been good. If you haven't made your contribution yet, won't you take a moment and make one today? The continued operation and improvement of these services are directly enabled by the generous contributions of its members. You may make a contribution with either your Visa or Mastercard using the Matronics SSL Secure website at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or with a personal check to: c/o Matt Dralle Matronics PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551 Thank you to all those that have already made a contribution! Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft Great minds discuss ideas, Average minds discuss events, Small minds discuss people... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: Rocket-List: 2000 List Fund Raiser Underway...
--> Rocket-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) Hi Listers, Just a quick reminder that the 2000 Email List Fund Raiser is underway and participation so far as been good. If you haven't made your contribution yet, won't you take a moment and make one today? The continued operation and improvement of these services are directly enabled by the generous contributions of its members. You may make a contribution with either your Visa or Mastercard using the Matronics SSL Secure website at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or with a personal check to: c/o Matt Dralle Matronics PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551 Thank you to all those that have already made a contribution! Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft Great minds discuss ideas, Average minds discuss events, Small minds discuss people... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Nov 07, 2000
Subject: RV6-List: 2000 List Fund Raiser Underway...
--> RV6-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) Hi Listers, Just a quick reminder that the 2000 Email List Fund Raiser is underway and participation so far as been good. If you haven't made your contribution yet, won't you take a moment and make one today? The continued operation and improvement of these services are directly enabled by the generous contributions of its members. You may make a contribution with either your Visa or Mastercard using the Matronics SSL Secure website at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or with a personal check to: c/o Matt Dralle Matronics PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551 Thank you to all those that have already made a contribution! Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft Great minds discuss ideas, Average minds discuss events, Small minds discuss people... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Nov 08, 2000
Subject: Huge Apology for "List Malfunction"...
Dear Listers, I am so embarrassed by the List-gone-crazy tonight! I'm not sure exactly went wrong. I'm suspecting that someone with an email account at msm.com may have been reposting my message from this morning over and over again maliciously spamming the system, but I can't really prove that. In any case, I am hugely embarrassed and sorry for the ton of messages that went out tonight regarding the 2000 Fund Raiser. Something went wrong on the system or somebody did me wrong; in either case I apologize for the huge dump of messages. My sincerest apologies... Matt Dralle Email List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft Great minds discuss ideas, Average minds discuss events, Small minds discuss people... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com>
Subject: EI fuel guage (capacitance)
Date: Nov 08, 2000
The EI fuel guage for Van's capacitance senders uses sensors (converters) that attach to the BNC connector at each tank. There is a black wire and a white wire on the sensor. Which wire attaches to the center pin of the BNC connector? Thanks, Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6 fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ENewton57(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 08, 2000
Subject: Installing Step inside the skin RV-6A
Hi Listers, A while back, we were discussing installing the flange of steps inside the skin. I finally finished riveting mine and anyone interested can see a picture here: http://members.aol.com/RV6AABuilder5/stepdone.html. I used #4 flush rivets. I will most likely make some sort of fairing for where it exits the fuselage. Eric Newton - Long Beach, Mississippi RV-6A N57ME (Reserved) (Fuselage) Eric's RV-6A Construction Page ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ENewton57(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 08, 2000
Subject: Re: Installing Step inside the skin RV-6A
In a message dated 11/8/00 8:04:48 AM Central Standard Time, ENewton57(at)AOL.COM writes: << Hi Listers, A while back, we were discussing installing the flange of steps inside the skin. I finally finished riveting mine and anyone interested can see a picture here: http://members.aol.com/RV6AABuilder5/stepdone.html. I used #4 flush rivets. I will most likely make some sort of fairing for where it exits the fuselage. >> I'm sorry, I put in the wrong web address. It should be: http://members.aol.com/RV6ABuilder5/stepdone.html Just copy the above address and and paste it into your browser window. It is case sensitive. Eric Newton - Long Beach, Mississippi RV-6A N57ME (Reserved) (Fuselage) Eric's RV-6A Construction Page ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV9 quality
Date: Nov 08, 2000
Richard, Thanks for sharing. I have been obsessing for the last few weeks as to the best place to start setting up the ribs for my -6A. I finally took the plunge, using the skins as the main reference. I'm glad the -9A people are having it so easy, but I freely admit to some jealousy. Now I know how the folks who built the kits without prepunched skins felt! Jim Bower St. Louis, MO RV-6A Wings >From: "Richard Luster" <rlluster(at)msn.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: RV9 quality >Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 20:57:36 -0800 > > >Listers and lurkers, > >I am in the process of assembling the wing skins and the wing leading edge. >I just had to make a statement of how impressed I am with the quality of >Vans pre drilling of all of the mating parts. If you were questioning the >difficulty level of the RV9, it has been greatly reduced by the quality of >workmenship supplied by Van's. I have been in the aerospace business for >over 25 years and the quality of Van's work is state of the Art. > >Richard Luster >Arlington, Wash >RV9, wings, fuse on order > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com>
Subject: Re: Stereo decks SONY Memory Stick
Date: Nov 08, 2000
I listen to MP3's while the Anywhere Map runs all the time. Nothing like a little them music from Top Gun while your flying. The Pocket PC devices multitask without any problem. My Ipaq has enough room in it for the Anywhere Map software with all the databases available including the entire AOPA directory and I can still load 5 full length songs in the internal memory and another 12 songs into my compact flash card. And the database updates are more affordable than any place else I've found. Of course you get the first 6 months free. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: <CW9371(at)AOL.COM> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 11:57 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Stereo decks SONY Memory Stick > > In a message dated 11/6/2000 6:55:21 PM Central Standard Time, > jorear(at)mari.net writes: > > << Has anyone had experience with the PDA's that the anywhere pilot GPS system > uses such as the Casio or the Compaq, and the MP3 feature that they have? > (I know.....here I go beating that subject to death!) I was wondering if it > is on a par with the Sony memory stick system or any other MP3 player for > that matter. Seems kinda neat to have your GPS, and tunes all in the same > removable unit, not to mention all the features/benefits of having a PDA. > Just wondering...... > >> > > I dont know if that will work, I mean i Have a palm V and it doesnt run 2 > programs at once. But then again I dont have the 2 things you mentioned > hooked up so dont know for sure. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2000
Subject: Nosegear attach bolt on RV-6A
From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
I have the same problem. I hope to use a self-locking nut with washers under the head or a shorter bolt. Don Jordan RV6A Arlington, Tx ***************************************** > > I was mounting my nose gear on the 6A tonight. The predrilled bolt > hole in > the engine mount appears to be to high. When I insert the bolt, I > can only > get a nut without a washer between the engine mount and the firewall > and > even then it is pressing into the firewall slightly. > > Is it acceptable to install one or two washers between the engine > mount and > the firewall to move the firewall forward? > > Don Mack > RV-6A Finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: slosh
Date: Nov 08, 2000
The previous owner told me that Art simply cleaned thoroughly with Naphtha and DID NOT TOUCH anything inside the tanks prior to sloshing. Whatever, it worked! Doug > It would be interesting to find out what type or preparation and cleaning he > used on the tank in addition to his sloshing procedure. Art Glaser > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2000
From: Frank and Dorothy <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Rudder Pedal Blocks
Emrath wrote: > Is your are building a Rv6, check out drawing 43a, bottom right, SECTION > B-B. I't 4" from firewall to the front edge of the F6115/6 blocks, > "variable for more or less leg room". Check out http://members.nbci.com/frankv/rv/bunny/fuseout.htm Note that if you install a firewall recess, that effectively limits how far forward you can install the rudder pedals. Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 08, 2000
Subject: Garmin 195 Question
Can anyone out there tell me if the Garmin 195 handheld GPS has any screw holes in the back, like might be for attaching a belt clip? I am trying to figure out if there is a simple way to mount one of these in (not on) my panel semi-permanenty before I run off and order one. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, working on canopy installation and thinking about the panel. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2000
From: bcbraem(at)home.com
Subject: Re: Fuel Consumption Charts
Sometime ago (I'm not sure exactly when), both Lycoming and Continental re-wrote their leaning recommendations for flying at cruise power. Essentially, leaning to peak and going rich was out and leaning to peak and even beyond, for best economy, was in--esp. for the lower hp./lower compression ratio engines. This was a move to show how economic these engines were in cruise, and of course to spur sales--as 100LL prices were known for quite some time to have to eventually increase because refiners wanted to make less of the stuff, since it was a very small part of their business, anyway. I'm not sure that the current leaning recommendations in the Operator's Manual are necessarily in the best interest of the engines involved. At higher altitudes, your lean to rich mixture setting keeps getting reduced in order to maintain the "proper" fuel:air mix as the air density decreases and to maintain the EGT that you want your engine to perform at. This is not "wasting" gas, it's adjusting the fuel/air ratio to remain stable as atmospheric conditions change. I will keep "leaning to rich" in my airplane. My spark plugs don't have lead deposits, to speak of, my exhaust valve stems are clean and well lubricated, my fuel consumption is in the low range for my power output (at cruise) and my engine is not "coked up"--that stuff is even more expensive than avgas--talk about wasting fuel:) Boyd Braem N600SS SW FL > > > I was under the impression that the O360A1A was to be leaned according to > the Lyc manual which is not as you say. > > Leaning to rich of peak at higher altitudes wastes fuel and cokes up engine > doesn't it? > > Hal Kempthorne > RV6a N7HK with new O360A1A > Waiting for FAA inspection. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Vanremog(at)AOL.COM> > To: > Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 8:07 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Consumption Chart for O-360-A1A > > > > > In a message dated 11/3/00 7:18:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > clayfly(at)libertybay.com writes: > > > > << Does someone have a SIMPLE way to compute expected fuel consumption > using > > cruise altitude, MAP and RPM? I'm just not getting there with my copy of > the > > Lycoming Operator's Manual. I don't want to spend countless hours boring > > holes in the sky at various altitudes and power settings to establish the > > numbers and I don't have a fuel flow meter onboard. >> > > > > This method is close enough and I have verified it using the VM flow meter > > over the previous 370 hrs. At cruise settings when proper leaned (50- 75 > deg > > F rich of peak), regardless of altitude, take the manifold pressure in > inHg > > and add it to the two most significant digits of the rpm. Then refer to > the > > following: > > > > 48 = 75% power = 10.5 gph > > 47 = 72% power = 10.0 gph > > 46 = 68% power = 9.5 gph > > 45 = 65% power = 9.0 gph > > 44 = 62% power = 8.5 gph > > 43 = 58% power = 8.0 gph > > 42 = 55% power = 7.5 gph > > > > I have a label stuck to my VM display that shows this info and the actual > is > > always within 0.2 gph. > > > > > > -GV (RV-6A N1GV) > > vanremog(at)aol.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Fw: Overlaps
Date: Nov 08, 2000
Folks, Here's what I got back from Van's... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gus Funnell" <support(at)vansaircraft.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 1:15 PM Subject: Re: Overlaps You can do whatever looks right and makes for easy access for the inspection panels here. None of it is critical. Gus Funnell On 7 Nov 00, at 9:28, Ralph E. Capen wrote: > I've just finished getting my baggage compartment squared away. The > 647's, 648,649's and 650's are all nutplated in! > > As I'm setting up the 642's, I'm noticing that there will be a fair > stack of overlaps where the 642's and the 641 sit on top of the 647's > and 648. > > Have I missed something here? It looks logical to take out two > notches at the forward edge of the 648 which will make them flush with > the 642's. > > Nothing in the plans, videos, or instructions. I don't think I've > caused this by using nutplates instead of rivets... > > Waiting for suggestions - but leaning toward the notches! > > Ralph Capen #60431 > RV6AQB N822AR Reserved > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2000
From: "Michael A. Pilla" <mpilla(at)mitre.org>
Subject: Re: Garmin 195 Question
Try velcro or, for something more elaborate, those universal cell phone brackets that can be attached to the panel, directly. Michael Pilla HCRV6(at)AOL.COM wrote: > > > Can anyone out there tell me if the Garmin 195 handheld GPS has any screw > holes in the back, like might be for attaching a belt clip? I am trying to > figure out if there is a simple way to mount one of these in (not on) my > panel semi-permanenty before I run off and order one. > > Harry Crosby > Pleasanton, California > RV-6, working on canopy installation and thinking about the panel. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Garmin 195 Question
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: Nov 08, 2000
11/08/2000 02:07:12 PM Harry, There are mounting holes on the back of the mounting bracket that comes with the unit. They take 8-32 screws. I used stainless hardware and made my own panel mounting bracket out of some 032 aluminum scrap. For a picture of this install, checkout my panel page under http://www.homestead.com/RV8A/files/index.html Nothing to it, just make sure that you buy the optional plug that attaches to the mounting bracket that breaks out to just a wire harness. This can be purchased directly from Garmin. - Jim Andrews RV-8A ( baffles ) O-360 Sensenich 85 N89JA reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Harry Fenton - Rockford <Harry(at)unisonindustries.com>
Subject: LASAR igniton CHT connection
Date: Nov 08, 2000
Just a quick introduction of myself before I pass on a tech tip. I'm the manager of customer service for Unison Industries, the manufacturer of the LASAR ignition system. Luckily, I'm a homebuilder, so I understand the concerns of the homebuilding community. Regarding contacting Unison via e-mail: My group is pretty small (me and another guy) so we just aren't able to handle a huge barrage of e-mail right now. But, we don't want to discourage contact either as we find that direct feedback is extremely valuable to us and our customers. So, feel free to contact us, but be patient as we will not always be able to provide immediate answers due to our normal work and travel schedules. Regarding installation issues on the LASAR system, we have received a rash of calls lately that I believe are related to the CHT connection that provides a feedback loop to the LASAR controller. The long and the sort of it is a lot of performance issues, suspected problems, or cockpit enunciator light problems have been traced to incorrect installation of the LASAR CHT loop. The following are some bullet points that provide some answers to FAQ's: * The LASAR system has the option to be configured to sense CHT. During routine operation in LASAR mode, as the timing advances, the CHT rises about 35 degrees F. In certified applications, the FAA had a concern about the potential for CHT climbing outside of certified parameters, so a feedback loop incorporating a CHT probe was built into the system. A CHT configured LASAR controller senses CHT, and rolls the timing back 1 degree for every degree over the maximum limits (485 F for climbs, 435 F for cruise). In practical operation, Unison observers have rarely, if ever, see the advanced timing elevate CHT's to a level at or above the temperature limits noted above. * Concurrent to the above, Unison also manufactures a non-CHT controller. In this case, the controller advances without sensing CHT, and only defaults to base timing in the event of a hard failure of a component or software. As mentioned above, it is Unison's experience that the non-CHT system is sufficient for most applications. * The CHT controller is an option for non-certified, homebuilt airframes, but required for certified airframes. New Lycoming engines sold by Van's are set up with non-CHT controllers. If the LASAR system is bought in the aftermarket, then the purchaser has the option of using either a non-CHT or CHT configured controller. Once again, the non-CHT is suitable for most non-certified applications, but some builders have elected for the CHT control option. * If a CHT controller is used, the CHT probe must be connected! When a CHT configured box is operated without the CHT probe connected, then the timing will default to the stock 25 degrees of timing as the software interprets this open loop condition as a maximum temperature condition. When the timing defaults to 25 degrees due to the open loop condition, then the controller commands an illumination of the enunciator light. * If a non-CHT LC-1001 controller is connected to a CHT probe, then the controller will operate normally as the software does not receive the signal from the probe. The probe is simply along for the ride in this configuration. * If the CHT controller is used in conjunction with the CHT probe, a faulty connection can cause the controller to default and the enunciator light to illuminate. To avoid faulty connections, solder the CHT probe connections to the connections in the LH1004 harness that connects the controller to the two magnetos. * The LH1004 harness is a universal harness and can be used with either CHT or non-CHT systems. The purple and white wires must be connected to a CHT probe with LC-1011 controllers. The purple and white wires of the LH1004 may be cut off or capped if used with an LC-1001 controller. This is a just a thumbnail sketch of LASAR CHT issues, and some of the fine details have been omitted for brevity. I am working on a master article that describes LASAR installation, operation and troubleshooting. I will keep the RV list posted as to which publication will print the article. Harry Fenton Unison Industries Harry(at)unisonindustries.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Garmin 195 Question-Rammounts
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Nov 08, 2000
11/08/2000 03:21:50 PM Try------ www.rammounts.com.------ They have hundreds of mounts that are relly sharp......Very good qualitity $ very reasonablely proces. "Michael A. Pilla" (at)matronics.com on 11/08/2000 02:44:24 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin 195 Question Try velcro or, for something more elaborate, those universal cell phone brackets that can be attached to the panel, directly. Michael Pilla HCRV6(at)AOL.COM wrote: > > > Can anyone out there tell me if the Garmin 195 handheld GPS has any screw > holes in the back, like might be for attaching a belt clip? I am trying to > figure out if there is a simple way to mount one of these in (not on) my > panel semi-permanenty before I run off and order one. > > Harry Crosby > Pleasanton, California > RV-6, working on canopy installation and thinking about the panel. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Burton"<dburton(at)foxinternet.net>
Date: Nov 08, 2000
Subject: Re: Garmin 195 Question
Hi Harry, Thanks for your particapation on the list, you have been really helpful answering questions with your previous posts. I'd be tempted to make the 195 easy to remove from the panel. I like to take mine home or in the car with me, and from an anti-theft standpoint it's hard to steal if it isn't in the plane... I've seen an installation similar to Jim Andrews RV8 (His looks super clean, I'd like to know more about how he did it) and am thinking about doing the same. The one other thought I have had is that mounting it on an arm or bracket so it can be tipped might be beneficial. My eyes are getting so old that I have trouble reading mine unless it is tilted just right. I'm using mine with the yoke mount on the plane I'm flying now. Dave Burton RV6A-wings Seattle area ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Hudgins" <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Stereo decks
Date: Nov 08, 2000
I also used a pair of transformers or coils in line with the outputs of the stereo. To the best of my memory, the Pioneer unit I used had separate ground wires for each output channel. These were wired to the -/+ terminals on the coil input side. On the output side, I wired in two variable resistors, then I connected the grounds together from the resistors going to the Flightcom unit. I only get some distortion if I turn up the variable resistors too high, otherwise it should fine to me. At the time I was working on this, I remember calling the engineering dept. at Flightcom with a few questions, they were a big help. You might want to give them a call if you have continued problems or questions. Hope this helps. Dave Hudgins Subject: Re: RV-List: Stereo decks I have a very similar setup in mine. How did you hook up the speaker wires? The Flightcom intercom has to have a common ground for both speaker inputs or else the speaker wires have to go through mini transformers before going to the intercom. I was unable to find a stereo of any kind that still uses a common ground for the speakers. How did you hook yours up? I went through the transformers, but it seems to degrade the sound somewhat. Also I didn't even bother with an antenna and it still works great. It's amazing how many stations you can pull in at 12,000'... Ed Bundy - Eagle, ID RV6A, 0320-D1a (160hp) Sensenich 70x78, N427EM, 350+hrs. ebundy(at)micron.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 08, 2000
Subject: Re: Garmin 195 Question
Here is how I did mine: http://hometown.aol.com/robhickman/index.html Tray in the back with Velcro. It pops right out to go home and it has never come out in flight. -Rob Hickman RV-4 ~100Hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Pedal Blocks
Date: Nov 08, 2000
> Note that if you install a firewall recess, that effectively limits how > far forward you can install the rudder pedals. > I believe that the firewall recess limits the forward position of the pedals at about the same position as the required pedal motion does. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Austin" <6430(at)axion.net>
Subject: Electrical
Date: Sep 01, 2000
Is there a weaker area other that the dreaded fibreglass work than we face in electrical arena ??? wiring the airplane ?? In fact, if you get a good drawing of a schematic, take one circuit at a time and test it with a battery, than you will eventually have a completed system..safe and functional. BUT...there are a lot of questions along the way as to wire size, switches, fuses,...and with a fear as great as mine for smoke..zap..zap.. something doesn't work...did I fry something ?? Well, I just want to pay tribute to a fellow who monitors this list and never seems to tire of dumb questions and understands our fears and helps unflaggingly ( such a word )?? I speak of course of BOB NUCKOLLS. I don't think he flies an RV or has any time or desire to do so, but he sure is there to help other RVers..... If you want to show your appreciation for a guy who is always there for us, get his book, "The Aero-Electric Connection"...not a big outlay of cash.. and he has a great deal of good ideas that may save your butt and also a wealth of good hardware ideas for your RV that will give you the peace of mind and an assurance that your electrical system is bulletproof and reliable..... NO, I am not his son-in-law.....just a grateful user of his talents.... Austin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2000
From: Robin Keller <rwkeller(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Garmin 195 Question
May I present a different view on this? While I have a 195 and use it frequently, it does have a TERRIBLE user interface. If you haven't bought one yet, you should seriously consider the 295. I've used both and the 295 is superior in all ways (except, perhaps, price). - robin keller rv-6 hopeful HCRV6(at)AOL.COM wrote: > > Can anyone out there tell me if the Garmin 195 handheld GPS has any screw > holes in the back, like might be for attaching a belt clip? I am trying to > figure out if there is a simple way to mount one of these in (not on) my > panel semi-permanenty before I run off and order one. > > Harry Crosby > Pleasanton, California > RV-6, working on canopy installation and thinking about the panel. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2000
From: Graham Bird <g.bird(at)opengroup.org>
Subject: Re: Garmin 195 Question
RAM Mounts look pretty good and will connect directly to the Garmin yoke mount body. > >Try velcro or, for something more elaborate, those universal cell phone >brackets that can be attached to the panel, directly. > >Michael Pilla > >HCRV6(at)AOL.COM wrote: > > > > > > Can anyone out there tell me if the Garmin 195 handheld GPS has any screw > > holes in the back, like might be for attaching a belt clip? I am trying to > > figure out if there is a simple way to mount one of these in (not on) my > > panel semi-permanenty before I run off and order one. > > > > Harry Crosby > > Pleasanton, California > > RV-6, working on canopy installation and thinking about the panel. > > > > Graham Bird The Open Group 1010 El Camino Real #380 THE Mailto:g.bird(at)opengroup.org Menlo Park OPEN Tel : +1 (650) 323 7992 Xt 229 CA 94025, USA GROUP Fax : +1 (240) 214-1063 Mobile: +1 (415) 999 3106 http://www.opengroup.org GSM Mobile: +44 771 863 9088 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sally and George" <aeronut58(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Vacuum Pump Rotation
Date: Nov 08, 2000
I have just received a Rapco Vacuum Pump kit. The pump is cn RA215CC, which rotates counter-clockwise. Can anyone confirm that counter clockwise rotation is correct for a Lycoming O-320A4M? George Kilishek N888GK (reserved) Firewall forward. Project 90% done, 90% to go. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2000
From: bcbraem(at)home.com
Subject: Re: Vacuum Pump Rotation
CC it is! Boyd braem N600SS > > > I have just received a Rapco Vacuum Pump kit. The pump is cn RA215CC, which > rotates counter-clockwise. > > Can anyone confirm that counter clockwise rotation is correct for a Lycoming > O-320A4M? > > George Kilishek > N888GK (reserved) > Firewall forward. Project 90% done, 90% to go. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Ludwig" <ludwig(at)azstarnet.com>
Subject: Re: Electrical
Date: Nov 08, 2000
Agreed, Austin. Funny thing is, the first time through his book, I didn't agree with several of his ideas. However, after careful study, it was a matter of not understanding everything he had to say. There's a lot in the book if you just take the time to read and understand it. I just received his battery cables and fuse blocks - they all look great too. - Bill in Tucson -----Original Message----- From: Austin <6430(at)axion.net> Date: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 7:04 PM Subject: RV-List: Electrical > >Is there a weaker area other that the dreaded fibreglass work than we face >in electrical arena ??? wiring the airplane ?? >In fact, if you get a good drawing of a schematic, take one circuit at a >time and test it with a battery, than you will eventually have a completed >system..safe and functional. >BUT...there are a lot of questions along the way as to wire size, switches, >fuses,...and with a fear as great as mine for smoke..zap..zap.. something >doesn't work...did I fry something ?? > Well, I just want to pay tribute to a fellow who monitors this list and >never seems to tire of dumb questions and understands our fears and helps >unflaggingly ( such a word )?? > I speak of course of BOB NUCKOLLS. >I don't think he flies an RV or has any time or desire to do so, but he sure >is there to help other RVers..... >If you want to show your appreciation for a guy who is always there for us, >get his book, "The Aero-Electric Connection"...not a big outlay of cash.. >and he has a great deal of good ideas that may save your butt and also a >wealth of good hardware ideas for your RV that will give you the peace of >mind and an assurance that your electrical system is bulletproof and >reliable..... >NO, I am not his son-in-law.....just a grateful user of his talents.... >Austin > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net>
Subject: Re: Fairing the Rudder Horm and Tie-Down Ring on RV6A
Date: Nov 08, 2000
John, here is a picture of the Rudder cable fairings that Dick Martin installed on his -8. It's tough to tell, but I'm sure he probably used blind rivets. Notice also that he doesn't have any tailwheel springs, just a full swiveling tailwheel as Dick is into maximus speedus. http://mnellis.jnet.net/RV-6_Page/images/DCP01428.JPG Mike Nellis - RV-6 Wings N699BM (res) Plainfield, IL http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page ----- Original Message ----- From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 8:47 PM Subject: RV-List: Fairing the Rudder Horm and Tie-Down Ring on RV6A > > A couple of RV-s at OSH and one featured in Van's recent RVAtor showed > rather long fairings that covered the rudder cable from forward of where it > emerges through the side of the fuselage all the way back to just past the > horn. Also the tie-down ring was faired. > > Question: Has anyone done this? If so, did you just pop rivet the fairings > on, or did you use nut plates? If nutplates, how did you get to the back > side to dimple the skin...I would like to add them, but want to make them > easily removable (drilling out blind rivets isn't my idea of "removable!") > > Suggestions welcome > > RV6A Flying Salida, CO > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2000
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: Garmin 195 Question
Harry, I mounted my 195 on the lower left side of the panel using a RAM-B-101-G1P swivel mount. I can adjust the angle and position of the unit and it doesn't need an external antenna. Plus it's in the right position to see with my bi-focals. (Yes you'll need em too some day!) also it's easy to reach. Dave RV6 at CMA 16hrs of FUN! HCRV6(at)AOL.COM wrote: > > Can anyone out there tell me if the Garmin 195 handheld GPS has any screw > holes in the back, like might be for attaching a belt clip? I am trying to > figure out if there is a simple way to mount one of these in (not on) my > panel semi-permanenty before I run off and order one. > > Harry Crosby > Pleasanton, California > RV-6, working on canopy installation and thinking about the panel. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 09, 2000
Subject: Re: Fuel Consumption Charts
In a message dated 11/8/00 11:23:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, bcbraem(at)home.com writes: << I'm not sure that the current leaning recommendations in the Operator's Manual are necessarily in the best interest of the engines involved. At higher altitudes, your lean to rich mixture setting keeps getting reduced in order to maintain the "proper" fuel:air mix as the air density decreases and to maintain the EGT that you want your engine to perform at. This is not "wasting" gas, it's adjusting the fuel/air ratio to remain stable as atmospheric conditions change. I will keep "leaning to rich" in my airplane. My spark plugs don't have lead deposits, to speak of, my exhaust valve stems are clean and well lubricated, my fuel consumption is in the low range for my power output (at cruise) and my engine is not "coked up"--that stuff is even more expensive than avgas--talk about wasting fuel:) Boyd Braem N600SS SW FL > > > I was under the impression that the O360A1A was to be leaned according to > the Lyc manual which is not as you say. > > Leaning to rich of peak at higher altitudes wastes fuel and cokes up engine > doesn't it? >> I agree. I didn't respond because it just seemed to me that Hal had merely not yet read the latest Key Reprints compilation of articles from Lycoming on the subject of leaning at cruise. -GV (RV-6A N1GV) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jim jewell" <jjewell(at)okanagan.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder pedal blocks
Date: Nov 08, 2000
Hello Alex, The closest forward position with the firewall recess in place is the depth of the recess itself , 3 1/2". I chose to drill three positions each 1" apart. I think the suggested approximate position is 4". Jim in Kelowna ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HillStw(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 09, 2000
Subject: Re: Fuel Consumption Charts
What do you mean by "lean to rich". Were you meaning "lean to peak", or did I miss a trick? What is Lycoming's current recommendation? I have always gone to about 50 rich of peak; is this not now recommended?? Thanks. hillstw(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com>
Subject: Re: Ipaq (from RV-list)
Date: Nov 09, 2000
That's the one. The more sunlight the better. Looks great in the bubble canopy of a RV. Also looks good at night but not quite as good as the Casio but the trade off for daylight readability is worth it. There is several new things since Oshkosh. Check out the web sites. Also got a sneak preview at AOPA Expo of the live weather map overlay. Pretty exciting stuff. http://www.controlvision.com http://www.anywheremap.com Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 7:54 PM Subject: Ipaq (from RV-list) > Hi Greg- > > I take it you're pretty happy with your Ipaq- I was wondering if this is > the new unit I saw at Oshkosh the folks at Anywhere Map were showing. > They claimed it was readable in sunlight. Is this true? > > Sounds like just the start of great things to come...like a reliable, > affordable attitude sensor, in cockpit weather, terrain mapping, etc. > etc. etc... > > >From the PossumWorks in TN > Mark Phillips > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 09, 2000
Subject: Re: Question for engine guru
i bought an engine from them, and a few parts, so far they have been fair, talk to dick waters, he is the owner. good luck scott tampa rv6a ready to hang engine , again ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: Props
Date: Nov 09, 2000
I have a RV6A O-360 with a sterba wood prop. I have been thinking of changing to a Sensenich fixed pitch. I would like to hear from anyone on the merits of making this change. Does the Sensenich improve takeoff? Cruise ? Your experience would be appreciated Best Wishes, John Furey RV6A O360 50hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Elevator Electric Trim Authority
Date: Nov 09, 2000
I am having a difficult time achieving sufficient elevator trim authority on my 6A. In particular, flying solo, the CG is 20% aft in allowed envelope. In this forward-most CG configuration, I am unable to adjust the Gretz electric trim to afford both hands-off trim at high-speed descent (170 KIAS) and hands-off trim at approach-to-landing speed, about 70 KIAS for my landings at the present as a novice RV pilot. Now the problem is not with the Gretz electric trim its with all electric trim systems Vans and Gretzs. The MAC 8A servo has 1.1 inches of displacement, while Vans manual trim cable has 2.1 inches of displacement. I discussed this lack of trim authority with Tom Green and he concurred that electric trim doesnt have as much trim authority. His advice was "Lots of RVs have insufficient nose-up trim on final control forces are light so dont worry about it". At the time when was I still in building mode I was satisfied now that Im flying Im not. Yes the stick forces are light thats why it is all the more irritating to have to hold a pound or so of back force on final. In point of fact, this is only a problem so far at forward CG I havent explored aft CGs yet. My questions to the list are: 1) Has anyone successfully trimmed a forward-CG 6A or 6 for hands-off flight over the entire flight envelope? If so, how did you do it? 2) What do instrument pilots of 6/6As do on approach? surely you dont fly an approach out-of-trim. 3) Has anyone successfully increased trim tab angulation by either reducing the radius of gyration at the horn or employing a pivot arm to increase the effective displacement of the servo? Dennis Persyk N600DP 6A O360A1A/Hartzell 8 hours Hampshire, IL C38 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Props
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Nov 09, 2000
11/09/2000 01:22:22 PM The Sensenich 83 inch (a 180 HP Sensenich) bite prop may require spinner,front plate & extension replacement. Of 6 RV's in the 4 adjacent airports here in NJ-all have Sensenich metals. I just discovered I need to tweak my Sensenich 2 or 3 inches(with-in factory allowance) more bite because I converted to the pressure recovery wheel pants. I apparently go 9 mph faster. The Metal Sensenich can be tweaked to fine tune your application. I have a appointment at the propeller shop on Saturday for the bend. Wood props aren't adjustable. You can sell the complete wood prop assembly to recoup monies....Vans has all the assemblies even the bolt kit if you go Sensenich. "John Furey" (at)matronics.com on 11/09/2000 12:11:41 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: RV-List: Props I have a RV6A O-360 with a sterba wood prop. I have been thinking of changing to a Sensenich fixed pitch. I would like to hear from anyone on the merits of making this change. Does the Sensenich improve takeoff? Cruise ? Your experience would be appreciated Best Wishes, John Furey RV6A O360 50hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "skybolt-aviator" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator Electric Trim Authority
Date: Nov 09, 2000
I have more than enough trim with Mac servo.Ollie&Lorene Washburn RV6-A,N795LW,@FD77. O-360,180HP,C/S,300+hrs. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Elevator Electric Trim Authority
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Nov 09, 2000
11/09/2000 01:51:44 PM I went with the Aero-Trim by Norm Smith ( of Mooney fame) His company has trim systems for every airplane out there. Since I was a experimental he gave me a price if 1/2 of his "certified aircraft " price.( he was with in a few pennies of the Mac prices). My actuator runs 1.8 inches. My trim tab horn was per Vans plans. I am able to trim in all regimes of flight. Most, if not all of the Rv'ers go with the Mac or the manual cable. I really like the Aero-Trim units & the fact the over 5000 aircraft have them is comfortable. Well......for that matter, if I wait two years or so there will be 5000 Rv's flying with the Macs......... "Dennis Persyk" (at)matronics.com on 11/09/2000 12:38:31 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: RV-List: Elevator Electric Trim Authority I am having a difficult time achieving sufficient elevator trim authority on my 6A. In particular, flying solo, the CG is 20% aft in allowed envelope. In this forward-most CG configuration, I am unable to adjust the Gretz electric trim to afford both hands-off trim at high-speed descent (170 KIAS) and hands-off trim at approach-to-landing speed, about 70 KIAS for my landings at the present as a novice RV pilot. Now the problem is not with the Gretz electric trim its with all electric trim systems Vans and Gretzs. The MAC 8A servo has 1.1 inches of displacement, while Vans manual trim cable has 2.1 inches of displacement. I discussed this lack of trim authority with Tom Green and he concurred that electric trim doesnt have as much trim authority. His advice was "Lots of RVs have insufficient nose-up trim on final control forces are light so dont worry about it". At the time when was I still in building mode I was satisfied now that Im flying Im not. Yes the stick forces are light thats why it is all the more irritating to have to hold a pound or so of back force on final. In point of fact, this is only a problem so far at forward CG I havent explored aft CGs yet. My questions to the list are: 1) Has anyone successfully trimmed a forward-CG 6A or 6 for hands-off flight over the entire flight envelope? If so, how did you do it? 2) What do instrument pilots of 6/6As do on approach? surely you dont fly an approach out-of-trim. 3) Has anyone successfully increased trim tab angulation by either reducing the radius of gyration at the horn or employing a pivot arm to increase the effective displacement of the servo? Dennis Persyk N600DP 6A O360A1A/Hartzell 8 hours Hampshire, IL C38 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator Electric Trim Authority
Date: Nov 09, 2000
Dennis, I think your problem is related to where your empty CG is located. Case in point, my RV-6 has a more aft-located empty CG than my friend, Bob Japundza. Bob has had some problems setting trim in forward CG situations. Maybe he'll read this and respond. Through a construction accident, he also has a larger than normal elevator trim tab. Like you, he has a CS prop and I think a 180 HP engine. I have a 160 HP engine and a FP Sensenich prop and I can trim hands off in any configuration. In fact, I don't even come close to the maximum travel limits on the electric trim. I can't even come close to loading the airplane in a forward CG location. Best I can come is about 2 inches aft of the forward limit. But I can load the airplane beyond the aft limit if I fly with two heavy people. I'm sure others will relay their experiences, but it may just come down to where the CG is located. It is possible to end up with an airplane that is trimmable in all configurations, but you may have to relocate the battery to change the CG. It will be interesting to see what others on the list have done. Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 Indianapolis (98 hours) ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Persyk <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 12:38 PM Subject: RV-List: Elevator Electric Trim Authority > > I am having a difficult time achieving sufficient elevator trim authority on > my 6A. In particular, flying solo, the CG is 20% aft in allowed envelope. > In this forward-most CG configuration, I am unable to adjust the Gretz > electric trim to afford both hands-off trim at high-speed descent (170 KIAS) > and hands-off trim at approach-to-landing speed, about 70 KIAS for my > landings at the present as a novice RV pilot. > > Now the problem is not with the Gretz electric trim its with all electric > trim systems Vans and Gretzs. The MAC 8A servo has 1.1 inches of > displacement, while Vans manual trim cable has 2.1 inches of displacement. > I discussed this lack of trim authority with Tom Green and he concurred that > electric trim doesnt have as much trim authority. His advice was "Lots of > RVs have insufficient nose-up trim on final control forces are light so > dont worry about it". At the time when was I still in building mode I was > satisfied now that Im flying Im not. Yes the stick forces are light > thats why it is all the more irritating to have to hold a pound or so of > back force on final. In point of fact, this is only a problem so far at > forward CG I havent explored aft CGs yet. > > My questions to the list are: > 1) Has anyone successfully trimmed a forward-CG 6A or 6 for hands-off flight > over the entire flight envelope? If so, how did you do it? > 2) What do instrument pilots of 6/6As do on approach? surely you dont fly > an approach out-of-trim. > 3) Has anyone successfully increased trim tab angulation by either reducing > the radius of gyration at the horn or employing a pivot arm to increase the > effective displacement of the servo? > > Dennis Persyk N600DP 6A O360A1A/Hartzell 8 hours > Hampshire, IL C38 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Elevator Electric Trim Authority
Date: Nov 09, 2000
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Elevator Electric Trim Authority Thread-Index: AcBKfeBmcfXjElcTRfq15Y8r1X7x0wAAOq4g
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
Dennis, I drilled another hole for the clevis pin closer to the apex to help alleviate this. It did help somewhat, but not completely. I still have to hold some pressure to maintain 70 mph on final. From what I understand this is common on the big motor -6's with constant speed props, even worse on the 6A's. Once you load a passenger, or have some baggage, the problem goes away. I think moving the battery aft would solve this problem; if you're like me you don't want to do that since it would be a considerable amount of work, and you've spent enough time building and not enough flying. Since you have the Gretz trim cable, I would suggest a pivot arm like you mention, since it would take a minimal amount of time to make. I've thought doing that myself, but I would have to remove the servo from the elevator, rebalance, etc. So, I haven't bothered with it, but someday I'd like to fix it. Reluctantly I've just had to live with it. Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 53 hours -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Persyk [mailto:dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 12:39 PM Subject: RV-List: Elevator Electric Trim Authority I am having a difficult time achieving sufficient elevator trim authority on my 6A. In particular, flying solo, the CG is 20% aft in allowed envelope. In this forward-most CG configuration, I am unable to adjust the Gretz electric trim to afford both hands-off trim at high-speed descent (170 KIAS) and hands-off trim at approach-to-landing speed, about 70 KIAS for my landings at the present as a novice RV pilot. Now the problem is not with the Gretz electric trim its with all electric trim systems Vans and Gretzs. The MAC 8A servo has 1.1 inches of displacement, while Vans manual trim cable has 2.1 inches of displacement. I discussed this lack of trim authority with Tom Green and he concurred that electric trim doesnt have as much trim authority. His advice was "Lots of RVs have insufficient nose-up trim on final control forces are light so dont worry about it". At the time when was I still in building mode I was satisfied now that Im flying Im not. Yes the stick forces are light thats why it is all the more irritating to have to hold a pound or so of back force on final. In point of fact, this is only a problem so far at forward CG I havent explored aft CGs yet. My questions to the list are: 1) Has anyone successfully trimmed a forward-CG 6A or 6 for hands-off flight over the entire flight envelope? If so, how did you do it? 2) What do instrument pilots of 6/6As do on approach? surely you dont fly an approach out-of-trim. 3) Has anyone successfully increased trim tab angulation by either reducing the radius of gyration at the horn or employing a pivot arm to increase the effective displacement of the servo? Dennis Persyk N600DP 6A O360A1A/Hartzell 8 hours Hampshire, IL C38 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us>
Subject: Length of C/S Prop
Date: Nov 09, 2000
Does anyone on the list have experience using a 74 inch C/S prop rather than the 72 inch length that Van sells? It will be installed on a RV-6, which should provide more ground clearance than an "A". I bought a perfectly good used prop that I heat to cut off, unless it is necessary. Ken Harrill RV-6, firewall stuff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2000
From: bcbraem(at)home.com
Subject: Re: Fuel Consumption Charts
Everybody should know about those key reprints: http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/index.html > > > In a message dated 11/8/00 11:23:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, > bcbraem(at)home.com writes: > > << I'm not sure that the current leaning recommendations in the Operator's > Manual are necessarily in the best interest of the engines involved. > > I agree. I didn't respond because it just seemed to me that Hal had merely > not yet read the latest Key Reprints compilation of articles from Lycoming on > the subject of leaning at cruise. > > -GV (RV-6A N1GV) > vanremog(at)aol.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2000
From: Chuck Weyant <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com>
Subject: Wood Gas Tank Clamps
I am ProSealing my tanks tomorrow. I'm looking for more clamps for the baffle/tank skin seam. I saw on someone's website that he was using what appeared to be one piece wood clamps. They looked homemade. Are they, and if so, how do you make 'em? Chuck Weyant, RV9A Santa Maria, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2000
From: "jah" <jah(at)abraxis.com>
Subject: Re: Props
> Wood props aren't adjustable. I'm not so sure this is true. Ed Sterba offers free repitching on his wood props. -Jeff Atlanta, Georgia RV-8 Finish Kit ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: pcondon(at)csc.com Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 13:24:08 -0500 > >The Sensenich 83 inch (a 180 HP Sensenich) bite prop may require >spinner,front plate & extension replacement. Of 6 RV's in the 4 adjacent >airports here in NJ-all have Sensenich metals. I just discovered I need to >tweak my Sensenich 2 or 3 inches(with-in factory allowance) more bite >because I converted to the pressure recovery wheel pants. I apparently go 9 >mph faster. The Metal Sensenich can be tweaked to fine tune your >application. I have a appointment at the propeller shop on Saturday for the >bend. Wood props aren't adjustable. You can sell the complete wood prop >assembly to recoup monies....Vans has all the assemblies even the bolt kit >if you go Sensenich. > > >"John Furey" (at)matronics.com on 11/09/2000 12:11:41 >PM > >Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com > >Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > > >To: >cc: > >Subject: RV-List: Props > > >I have a RV6A O-360 with a sterba wood prop. I have been thinking of >changing to a Sensenich fixed pitch. I would like to hear from anyone on >the >merits of making this change. > Does the Sensenich improve takeoff? Cruise ? > Your experience would be appreciated > >Best Wishes, >John Furey >RV6A O360 50hrs > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: Nosegear attach bolt on RV-6A
Date: Nov 09, 2000
Don, DON'T USE A SHORTER BOLT. After several 10's of hours of use, you will elongate the hole in the motor mount on the bolt head side.... Let me explain... The FULL bolt diameter MUST protrude thru the motor mount. If a shorter bolt is used, the tread diameter area will be less than the bolt diameter, causing the head side of the bolt/motor mount, to take on ALL torsion loads. Eventually, this will wear the bolt hole in the mount on the head side of the bolt. A better approach is to put an indentation into the firewall for proper clearance for the nut. Since my motor was already hung, I accomplished making the indentation with a round ended wood dowel. (or a hammer handle...). Also, don't use an elastic nut, rather a castle nut with a cotter key....... I'm saying this from experience....... I repaired the damage to the motor mount after I lost the front gear leg two years ago....... Fred Stucklen N925RV (1650 hrs/7 Yrs) E. Windsor, CT 06088 WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com ____ Subject: RV-List: Nosegear attach bolt on RV-6A From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> I have the same problem. I hope to use a self-locking nut with washers under the head or a shorter bolt. Don Jordan RV6A Arlington, Tx ***************************************** > > I was mounting my nose gear on the 6A tonight. The predrilled bolt > hole in > the engine mount appears to be to high. When I insert the bolt, I > can only > get a nut without a washer between the engine mount and the firewall > and > even then it is pressing into the firewall slightly. > > Is it acceptable to install one or two washers between the engine > mount and > the firewall to move the firewall forward? > > Don Mack > RV-6A Finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2000
From: bcbraem(at)home.com
Subject: Re: Elevator Electric Trim Authority
If anyone who has manual elevator trim or is thinking about starting with manual elevator trim and then switching to electric servo trim, be aware that with the Gretz Aero set-up you don't have to rebalance the elevators, as you do/will with the Van's unit because the servo for the Gretz system is attached under the empennage fairing, not inside the elevator. I have no family or financial ties to Gretz's company. Boyd Braem N600SS RV-S6 IO-540 SW FL too much time on my hands, today, should be flying > > > Dennis, > > I drilled another hole for the clevis pin closer to the apex to help > alleviate this. It did help somewhat, but not completely. I still have > to hold some pressure to maintain 70 mph on final. From what I > understand this is common on the big motor -6's with constant speed > props, even worse on the 6A's. Once you load a passenger, or have some > baggage, the problem goes away. I think moving the battery aft would > solve this problem; if you're like me you don't want to do that since it > would be a considerable amount of work, and you've spent enough time > building and not enough flying. > > Since you have the Gretz trim cable, I would suggest a pivot arm like > you mention, since it would take a minimal amount of time to make. I've > thought doing that myself, but I would have to remove the servo from the > elevator, rebalance, etc. So, I haven't bothered with it, but someday > I'd like to fix it. Reluctantly I've just had to live with it. > > Bob Japundza > RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 53 hours > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dennis Persyk [mailto:dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 12:39 PM > To: rv-list > Subject: RV-List: Elevator Electric Trim Authority > > > > I am having a difficult time achieving sufficient elevator trim > authority on > my 6A. In particular, flying solo, the CG is 20% aft in allowed > envelope. > In this forward-most CG configuration, I am unable to adjust the Gretz > electric trim to afford both hands-off trim at high-speed descent (170 > KIAS) > and hands-off trim at approach-to-landing speed, about 70 KIAS for my > landings at the present as a novice RV pilot. > > Now the problem is not with the Gretz electric trim its with all > electric > trim systems Vans and Gretzs. The MAC 8A servo has 1.1 inches of > displacement, while Vans manual trim cable has 2.1 inches of > displacement. > I discussed this lack of trim authority with Tom Green and he concurred > that > electric trim doesnt have as much trim authority. His advice was "Lots > of > RVs have insufficient nose-up trim on final control forces are light so > dont worry about it". At the time when was I still in building mode I > was > satisfied now that Im flying Im not. Yes the stick forces are light > thats why it is all the more irritating to have to hold a pound or so of > back force on final. In point of fact, this is only a problem so far at > forward CG I havent explored aft CGs yet. > > My questions to the list are: > 1) Has anyone successfully trimmed a forward-CG 6A or 6 for hands-off > flight > over the entire flight envelope? If so, how did you do it? > 2) What do instrument pilots of 6/6As do on approach? surely you dont > fly > an approach out-of-trim. > 3) Has anyone successfully increased trim tab angulation by either > reducing > the radius of gyration at the horn or employing a pivot arm to increase > the > effective displacement of the servo? > > Dennis Persyk N600DP 6A O360A1A/Hartzell 8 hours > Hampshire, IL C38 > > L ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2000
From: KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: Props
> > Wood props aren't adjustable. Well, they can't be "bent" to the proper pitch, but they can be re-carved to improve performance, if desired. Those prop makers who are used to carving wood props for RVs are getting so good at our performance requirements (or were good to begin with) that you can tell them what altitude your home field is and what altitude you normally cruise, engine and desire for cruise or climb pitch and your prop will be good right out of the box. Results may vary. Most all will re-carve for you if you can stand to have the prop off of your airplane that long. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2000
From: "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: Props
Hi John, I have an RV-6/O-360 and a Sensenich 72FM8-83 (83" pitch). I can't comment on the difference between that and a wood prop, because I've never had a wood prop on it. I don't think changing a wood prop to the Sensenich would be hard. They offer a very nice (and complete) spinner assy for $350. I think the 72FM8 is a good prop for the RV if you can't (or won't) afford a constant speed. Picking the pitch is a little bit more of an issue. I got the chance to fly both the 83 (mine) and Garry Legare's 85 (THANKS Garry!) on my airplane. I can't comment on Rate of Climb numbers because I could never get a good test day to nail down the numbers. But there didn't SEEM (my opinion only!) to be any large difference the two props in climb. MAYBE (?) just a little longer on the takeoff roll because of the 40 less rpm on the static run. The was about a 3-4 kt speed increase with the 85" prop. Both tests were run at 2700 rpm and 8000' density altitude. The main reason I wanted to test the 85 was that I think the 83 is underpitched for my airplane. I can fly to 13,000' density altitude before I can use full throttle and not overspeed the engine. With the 85, I could use full throttle at 11,000. For my RV, the 85 would be a better choice, but I probably won't bother to repitch it. (I'll save my pennies for a CS). As a side note, not all RV's are equal. (Duh...everyone knows that.) I was flying with Paul Rosales' RV-6a and even though they are very similar (both stock O-360/Sensenich 72FM8-83 with PR wheelpants) I was able to match his full throttle speed while running 3" less manifold pressure. (Turns out that seems to good for about another 4 mph). My airplane is a little lighter than Pauls, but that doesn't have a large effect on speed. (Rate of climb, yes, top speed no). The 83 maybe a little better match for Pauls RV-6a, than for mine. (BTW he can use full throttle at about 9,000' if I remember correctly). So....If you have a clean (PR wheel pants) and light RV-6a, the 85 could be a good prop for you. If it's a little heavy and draggy (or you just have to have that really good rate of climb), then the 83 is probably good. As in all spewing of performance #'s, this is my opinion only. The biggest thing I learned while trying to nail down hard performance numbers (and believe me I tried) during these tests is that "data is easy....GOOD data is an next to impossible!" Anybody who can tell 1 mph or 50 fpm roc are either heros or liers in my book. I couldn't hardly repeat 3 mph or 300 fpm between the same tests on different days. But that was just me.... Good luck in making the decision. Your mileage may vary..... Laird Owens RV-6, N515L, 130 hrs O-360, Sensenich (83) Simi Valley, SoCal From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Thu, Nov 9, 2000 10:21 AM Subject: RV-List: Props I have a RV6A O-360 with a sterba wood prop. I have been thinking of changing to a Sensenich fixed pitch. I would like to hear from anyone on the merits of making this change. Does the Sensenich improve takeoff? Cruise ? Your experience would be appreciated Best Wishes, John Furey RV6A O360 50hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince at Cactus" <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com>
Subject: Wood Gas Tank Clamps
Date: Nov 09, 2000
Hello, I used 1 x 2 x @6 inch wood with a band saw cut 1.5 to 2 inches deep centered between and parallel to the longest side. When you place the wood clamp over the pro sealed joint, be sure to give them a good squeeze with a clamp. Regards, Vince Himsl RV8 fuselage Moscow, ID USA Subject: RV-List: Wood Gas Tank Clamps ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Wood Gas Tank Clamps
Date: Nov 09, 2000
> I am ProSealing my tanks tomorrow. I'm looking for more clamps for the > baffle/tank skin seam. I saw on someone's website that he was using > what appeared to be one piece wood clamps. They looked homemade. Are > they, and if so, how do you make 'em? I remember making a bunch of them out of scrap at hand but the best ones were from 1/4" masonite, 1-1/2 x 3-1/2" with about a 2-1/2" bandsawed slot in the center of the narrow dimension. I also I remember that the more the better. If you have enough to go put one between each pair of rivets, that would be great Terry Watson RV-8A fuselage floors Seattle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jim jewell" <jjewell(at)okanagan.net>
Subject: Re: Gas Tank Clamps
Date: Nov 09, 2000
Hello Chuck, When I did my tanks I wanted to overcome a bulge that I noticed on more than a few RV's at Arlington over the last few years. This"bulge" I refer to runs the length of the tank along the row of rivets that hold the rear baffle in place. I assumed that the bulge was due to the sealant not being uniformly squeezed by whatever clamp system the builders used. The wooden clamps that Van's described in the manual seemed less than ideal to me. So after an appropriate amount of obsessing, I shopped the local suppliers until I found and bought two 8'x1"x1" x1/8" soft aluminum angles and a box of 1/2"x 8-32 screws. From the angles I cut four lengths the length of the tanks. Having already drilled the tank mounting holes, I match drilled the angles to the tanks taking time to thread the holes on the inner angles. When the time to seal and rivet the rear tank baffles came, I placed the threaded angles on the inside faces of the baffle flanges. The others were placed on the outside matching surfaces. The screws once installed were lightly tightened starting from the center and working outward. It's hard to describe how tight to do the screws. A clue, if or when the "soft" aluminum threads start to pull stop. I also used the end view of the tank flange area as a guide. When the parts looked parallel with just a hint of sealer visible I quit tightening, cleaned up the area and waited several days. I stripped off the angles to find the desired result; no bulges, Dead straight surfaces, I'm pleased to say the least. For me the material cost to do this was worth the result. Try it if you like it, Jim in Kelowna P.S. if the above is not clear enough let me know. ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Weyant <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 12:24 PM Subject: RV-List: Wood Gas Tank Clamps > > I am ProSealing my tanks tomorrow. I'm looking for more clamps for the > baffle/tank skin seam. I saw on someone's website that he was using > what appeared to be one piece wood clamps. They looked homemade. Are > they, and if so, how do you make 'em? > > Chuck Weyant, RV9A > Santa Maria, CA > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Consumption Charts
Date: Nov 09, 2000
> What is Lycoming's current recommendation? > hillstw(at)aol.com From............. http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.html Support Publications Key Reprints Leaning Textron Lycoming Engines B. LEANING THE NORMALLY ASPIRATED ENGINES 1. Use full rich mixture during takeoff or climb. Careful observation of engine temperature instruments should be practiced to ensure limits specified in Textron Lycoming operator's manual are never exceeded. Refer to the aircraft POH (pilot's operating handbook) or AFM (aircraft flight manual) for more specific instructions. 2. For 5000 feet density altitude and above, or high ambient temperatures, roughness or reduction of power may occur at full rich mixture. The mixture may be adjusted to obtain smooth engine operation. For fixed pitch propeller, lean to maximum RPM at full throttle prior to takeoff where airports are 5000 feet density altitude or higher. Limit operation at full throttle on the ground to a minimum. For direct-drive, normally aspirated engines with a prop governor, but without fuel flow or EGT, set throttle at full power and lean mixture at maximum RPM with smooth operation of the engine as a deciding factor. 3. For cruise powers where best power mixture is allowed, slowly lean the mixture from full rich to maximum power. Best power mixture operation provides the most miles per hour for a given power setting. For engines equipped with fixed pitch propellers, gradually lean the mixture until either the tachometer or the airspeed indicator reading peaks. For engines equipped with controllable pitch propellers, lean until a slight increase of airspeed is noted. 4. For a given power setting, best economy mixture provides the most miles per gallon. Slowly lean the mixture until engine operation becomes rough or until engine power rapidly diminishes as noted by an undesirable decrease in airspeed. When either condition occurs, enrich the mixture sufficiently to obtain an evenly firing engine or to regain most of the lost airspeed or engine RPM. Some engine power and airspeed must be sacrificed to gain a best economy mixture setting. NOTE When leaned, engine roughness is caused by misfiring due to a lean fuel-air mixture which will not support combustion. Roughness is eliminated by enriching slightly until the engine is smooth. 5. The exhaust gas temperature (EGT) offers little improvement in leaning the float-type carburetor over the procedures outlined above because of imperfect mixture distribution. However, if the EGT probe is installed, lean the mixture to 100oF on the rich side of peak EGT for best power operation. For best economy cruise, operate at peak EGT. If roughness is encountered, enrich the mixture slightly for smooth engine operation. 6. When installing an EGT probe, the probe must be installed in the leanest cylinder. Contact the airframe or kit manufacturer for the correct location. In experimental or custom applications, multiple probe instrumentation is required and several power settings should be checked in order to determine the leanest cylinder for the specific application. 7. During normal operation, maintain the following recommended temperature limits: (a) Cylinder head temperature - limit listed in the Textron Lycoming Operator's Manual. (b) Oil temperature - limit listed in the Textron Lycoming Operator's Manual. 8. For maximum service life, maintain the following recommended limits for continuous cruise operation: (a) Engine power setting - 65% of rated or less. (b) Cylinder head temperatures - 400oF. or below. Oil temperature - 165oF. - 220oF. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Length of C/S Prop
Date: Nov 09, 2000
Ken, I have a 74 inch Hartzell on my 8A & have not experienced any major problems thus far. In the test phase I left off the nose wheel pant & a caused a few small chips in the paint. The nose pant would have keep the small rocks etc. from being thrown forward as I taxied. A 74 inch Hartzell can be cut to 72 inches if necessary due to chips etc., but 72 inches is the limit. The 74 inch unit gives you more options if you did take a bad ding on a blade, as it could be cut down & still be serviceable. Mark Steffensen 8A, Dallas TX 65 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Harrill" <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 1:37 PM Subject: RV-List: Length of C/S Prop > > Does anyone on the list have experience using a 74 inch C/S prop rather > than the 72 inch length that Van sells? It will be installed on a RV-6, > which should provide more ground clearance than an "A". I bought a > perfectly good used prop that I heat to cut off, unless it is necessary. > > > Ken Harrill > RV-6, firewall stuff > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Fw: Sensenich 72FM Propeller
Date: Nov 09, 2000
Hi John: Was unable to bring this up in the achieves so am forwarding for your info. Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. -----Original Message----- From: Eustace Bowhay <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net> Date: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 8:44 PM Subject: Sensenich 72FM Propeller >Hi Guys and Gals: > >Very interesting day today. Had a chance to fly in a newly completed RV6A >equipped with the 72FM propeller and thought some of you would be >interested in some numbers. > >RV6A Serial # 23678 built by Holmer Rogers of Revelstoke B.C. Empty wieght >1053 pounds, equipped with a fuel injected 0360 Lycoming A4M. Engine has >245 hrs since factory reman. with differential readings of 77-78 over 80 on >all four cylinders. Engine is equipped with electronic ignition. This is a >very clean aircraft with a lot of attention payed to detail and is well >rigged. With Roger doing the flying and me pushing the pencil this is what >we came up with. > >Surface temp. was 45 F with no wind and a elevation of 1720 ft. Static run >showed 2220 RPM and 27.7 in. manifold press. Aircraft was fueled to give us >a 1600 lb. gross wieght. Some of the following figures may be off a small >fraction but are reasonably close. > >Take-off starting with full power from brake release we were airborne in 12 >seconds. > >First climb to 8000 ft. was done at full throttle and 120 mph indicated. >3000 - 26.3 mp and 2350 RPM . Initial rate of climb was 1600 fpm >4000 - 25.4 mp and 2350 RPM >5000 - 24.4 mp and 2350 RPM >6000 - 23.7 mp and 2340 RPM >7000 - 22.7 mp and 2330 RPM >8000 - 22.0 mp and 2320 RPM rate of climb here was still 1200 fpm > >Leveling of at 8200 ft and flying into 8000 ft RPM quickly built to the >red line of 2700 RPM. With everything stabilized power had to be reduced to >21 mp to keep from running over 2700. The indicated airspeed at this point >was 190 mph. > >Second climb was done at 25 in.mp and 120 to 6000 with 2280 RPM showing >going through 4000 ft. at 1200 fpm. Leveling at 6000 and maintaining 2500 >rpm which required 20.5 in mp we had at true airspeed of 182 mph. This was >verified with a hand held gps flying all four headings. At a power setting >of 2400 rpm and around 19 in. mp the fuel burn was 7.2 US gallons per hour >taken from the fuel flow meter. All cruise power settings were done with >the mixture leaned to peak minus 50 degrees. > >My RV6 is constant speed equipped and is 55 lbs heavier. With the exception >of the slower initial acceleration on take-off and slightly longer run and >slightly lower initial rate of climb I would be hard pressed to keep up >with Roger's aircraft. Jim and I are just starting our fuselage for the 6A >and after today's experience will probaably go with the fixed pitch prop on >our 180 hp engine rather than a constant speed as planned. If one has >special requirements such as short field work, high airstrips or floats I >would stay with a constant speed. > >All in all my first impression is that Sensenich have really done their >homework on this one and have given us a chance to have almost constant >speed performance at a saving of almost 4000.00 US. > >Another interesting thing happened during our testing. Got a bit too >engrossed in the numbers and let a tank run dry. Gets pretty quiet in a >hurry. But what I learned from this was after we switched tanks and boost >pump on there was a fair delay in getting a restart. It looks to me with >this particular fuel system that a blown tank below 1000 ft could prove >quite interesting. > >Hope this is of some interest. > >Eustace Bowhay C-GHAY 20383 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2000
From: Ed Hobenshield <edhob(at)kermode.net>
Subject: Re: Electrical
> > > I speak of course of BOB NUCKOLLS. >I don't think he flies an RV or has any time or desire to do so, but he sure >is there to help other RVers..... >If you want to show your appreciation for a guy who is always there for us, >get his book, "The Aero-Electric Connection".. >Austin > >Just phone him, you will get to here what a great guy he is. Thanks to both Austin & Bob Nuckolls. C-FXXG alive and well and still in the bush. ( loving it ) Ed Hobenshield. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Perf testing, was: Props
> >As in all spewing of performance #'s, this is my opinion only. The >biggest thing I learned while trying to nail down hard performance >numbers (and believe me I tried) during these tests is that "data is >easy....GOOD data is an next to impossible!" Anybody who can tell 1 >mph or 50 fpm roc are either heros or liers in my book. I couldn't >hardly repeat 3 mph or 300 fpm between the same tests on different >days. But that was just me.... > Laird, You are 100% right - it is very difficult to get good data. Here are a few tidbits, some obvious, some less so. You need smooth, stable air. Often it is worthwhile to get up really, really early to start work right after sunrise. Just before sunset can be a good time too, but not as good as often as early morning. If the air isn't perfect, don't force it. Try a different location, a higher altitude, or just give up and do some loops and rolls instead. Either way you win. Climb testing - you have to have very good airspeed control. You should be able to fly within plus or minus one mph with practice, in the right conditions. Get the airspeed nailed before the planned start altitude, and use small pitch attitude corrections to control the airspeed. If you need to use big pitch attitude changes the run is no good. Throw it away and start over. The wind will be changing as you climb, even on the best days. If you are climbing into or with the wind, the wind speed changes will cause airspeed changes, and you will have to raise or lower the nose to get back on the correct speed. This will affect the rate of climb, and you will have bad data. You want the wind at about 90 degrees to your heading, so the wind speed changes don't have as much affect on the airspeed. Also, do two runs at headings 180 degrees apart, and average the rates of climb for the two runs. A wind change with altitude that gives a speed increase on one run will give a speed decrease on the next run, and the average will be pretty good. You need reasonably good heading control to make the most of this technique. The amount of sideslip will also affect the drag, so make sure the ball is in the same place on all the runs. If you are leaning during the climb, use a consistent technique. If the local terrain is has big hills, you need light winds, or you can get small waves being formed, giving very smooth, but rising and falling air. If the airspeed keeps changing in level flight that is a bad sign. Take several sets of data at each condition, preferably on different days. If you have enough data sets, you will be able to pick out the ones with strange results (either too high a rate of climb, or two low), and throw them out. You need to be very, very patient and meticulous to get good perf data. Take care, -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 95% done) Ottawa, Canada http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Wood Gas Tank Clamps
> >I am ProSealing my tanks tomorrow. I'm looking for more clamps for the >baffle/tank skin seam. I saw on someone's website that he was using >what appeared to be one piece wood clamps. They looked homemade. Are >they, and if so, how do you make 'em? > >Chuck Weyant, RV9A Well, I used four pieces of long 1 x 2s wrapped in Saran Wrap, and a whole bunch of C-clamps. See http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/wing/w12.html -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 95% done) Ottawa, Canada http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2000
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Sensenich 72FM Propeller
--- Eustace Bowhay wrote: > > > Hi John: > > Was unable to bring this up in the achieves so am forwarding for your > info. > > Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. And good info it is! One lttle bit missing is the pitch of that prop! Unless I missed it... Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2000
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Perf testing, was: Props
> > The wind will be changing as you climb, even on the best days. If > you are climbing into or with the wind, the wind speed changes will > cause airspeed changes Think of it this way, I can put you under the hood and have you make turns on a windy day and you well not be able to tell if the wind is blowing or not or if you are turning up wind or down wind. I know all all the arguments about energy and mass but wind speed will only change given distances over the ground. The only way a wind speed would effect IAS is if we could instantly turn and then it would be long enough to equalize the mass of the airplane with the wind flow. As slow as we turn in an airplane you well never see a changer in IAS if you hold constant altitude. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Perf testing, was: Props
> > >> >> The wind will be changing as you climb, even on the best days. If >> you are climbing into or with the wind, the wind speed changes will >> cause airspeed changes > >Think of it this way, I can put you under the hood and have you make >turns on a windy day and you well not be able to tell if the wind is >blowing or not or if you are turning up wind or down wind. I know all >all the arguments about energy and mass but wind speed will only change >given distances over the ground. The only way a wind speed would >effect IAS is if we could instantly turn and then it would be long >enough to equalize the mass of the airplane with the wind flow. >As slow as we turn in an airplane you well never >see a changer in IAS if you hold constant altitude. > You are quite correct because turns happen slowly enough so that we see only gradual changes in the wind components. But if you are climbing in completely calm air, you will get a different result than if you are climbing in a slowly increasing headwind component, because the extra headwind is giving us extra energy. This extra energy shows up as an airspeed increase. We compensate by raising the nose slightly to keep the target airspeed, and we get a higher rate of climb. Kevin -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 95% done) Ottawa, Canada http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JDaniel343(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 10, 2000
Subject: B&C Alternators
Quick question? Does the B&C L40 alternator have to be used with their linear voltage regulator or can any suitable regulator work? John Danielson Finishing kit, engine installation ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2000
From: Doug Gray <douggray(at)ihug.com.au>
Subject: Re: Elevator Electric Trim Authority
> If anyone who has manual elevator trim or is thinking about starting > with manual elevator trim and then switching to electric servo trim, be > aware that with the Gretz Aero set-up you don't have to rebalance the > elevators, as you do/will with the Van's unit because the servo for the > Gretz system is attached under the empennage fairing, not inside the >elevator. Please Sir, check your plans...the Vans electric trim option includes a shorter tab horn to compensate for the reduced travel. At least on my plans it does. Gretz' kit does not address this...pity. Doug Gray RV6 Wings... with manual elev trim. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2000
From: Doug Gray <douggray(at)ihug.com.au>
Subject: Re: Perf testing, was: Props
You guys are both right. If I was asseessing as accurately as possible the performance characteristics of an aircraft what Kevin is saying is absolutely correct. If I was teaching people the practical skills of aviating, Jerry is also correct. These variations are insignificant. Wind shear is another subject element, to mix this with turning, climbing would be unhelpful. Personally I find it difficult to accept 3-4 mph improvement claims when there is an underlying measurement or system error which might be twice this. The original poster did acknowledge the difficulty. Doug Gray, trying to be objective. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lenleg(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 10, 2000
Subject: RE: RV-8A brake orientation
RV-8A builders: I am having trouble understanding the assembly of the brakes to the gear legs. I have studied the C2 drawings but it just is not clicking. Does anyone have pictures or website pictures of their brake and wheel assembly? Thanks! Len, RV-8A North Carolina N910LL (res) Finishing Kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: Air-Tec
Date: Nov 10, 2000
Kevin, I purchased my engine from Air-Tec. I now have 1650+ trouble free hours on it....... Fred Stucklen N925RV (1650 hrs/7 Yrs) E. Windsor, CT 06088 WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com ___ From: Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM Subject: Re: RV-List: Question for engine guru Has anyone had any experience buying parts from Air-Tec Inc Orlando, Fl. Got a quote from them that looks good for some rebuilt jugs Thanks in advance Kevin Shannon -9a fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Props
Date: Nov 10, 2000
>I have a RV6A O-360 with a sterba wood prop. I have been thinking of >changing to a Sensenich fixed pitch. I would like to hear from anyone on >the >merits of making this change. > Does the Sensenich improve takeoff? Cruise ? > Your experience would be appreciated > >Best Wishes, >John Furey >RV6A O360 50hrs John, Laird was right on the money. I also can't seem to nail down any real, hard numbers with my RV-8/O-360/72FM8-83" setup. Now that it's getting colder...MUCH colder....I'm finding the prop will overspeed much easier even up past 10,000'. During the heat of summer, I could go full throttle down to 8,000' and not overspeed. Amazing what heat does! Now, given the typical density altitudes I operate in here in New Mexico, the 83" is providing me with the performance that I personally find desirable. Mainly, it gets me off the runway quickly and some of these runways I frequent can be over 10,000' density altitude on hot summer days. If I lived nearer to sea level, I would have opted for the 85". I don't feel the speed "loss"...whatever that is...with the finer pitch prop is much of an issue. I'm still eating up spam cans at a horrific rate. (I LOVE that part.) I won't win any races with this setup on pure performance alone, so I'll have to rely on my awesome piloting skills. HAH! Ok...but seriously folks. The Sensenich prop is a fine piece of machining, and I'm very pleased with it thus far. I, too plan to install a Hartzell when it's engine overhaul time...which is far down the road...I hope. The Sensenich was the right choice for me when It was prop buying time. I could afford it, and my engine has a solid crankshaft, so a C/S would not work until the crank is replaced with a hollow unit. Also, at that time it seemed that the 83" was the suggested prop, can't recall for sure. I wanted to err on the side of climb performance anyway. Good luck. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD 148 hrs. down for tires and brakes ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator Electric Trim Authority
Date: Nov 10, 2000
I've been looking at this one for a while also - my problem has been getting the right horn set. Seems that there are a number (at least four that I can determine) different designs that have been produced by Van's. I have three sets of horn parts - two manual and one electric . Only one set fits the trim tab skin that came with my empennage kit - it's a manual with a -1 suffix for the part number. Although the Gretz kit says to use the manual trim horns, I'm planning on building a set that is more like the Electric elevator kind fitting my trim tab. It will have the fore/aft dimensions of the manual design produced by Van's in order to fit the manual type cable supplied with the Gretz kit that I have. I'm also looking at the clevis/hinge distance of the electric horn design for more throw. Since we're hearing complaints of inadequate throw even from those with the stock electric trim setup, I think that an even shorter clevis/hinge distance is necessary. I am building a CS/O360 6A - which seems to be the greatest offender in this fray. The question that I have is for those that have already modified their horns for more throw by decreasing the distance between the hinge and the clevis. What distance did you end up with and how successful were the results?? I have heard of one builder that placed the throw horn inside the area between the spars (it's also out of the airstream this way). I'll be looking at the archives for that one - anyone have any hints on where it's located? Ralph Capen RV6AQB N822AR reserved...too many things to do so this can wait a while ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2000
From: Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Perf testing, was: Props
Makes perfect sense to me. I think the source of the discrepancy between the two expressed views/theories is the difference between one individual seeking to record the best, most detailed test data possible under a given set of conditions (and seeking to understand and communicate exactly how those variable conditions will affect his testing) and the other individual concentrating more on the best way to explain (teach) those variables and their likely effects (or lack of same) to students of 'regular', day-to-day flying with no need, desire (or aptitude) to understand the details relevant only to flight test. OK, that was some run-on sentence, but you see what I mean. I hope... :-) Regards, Ken Balch CFI, etc. Kevin Horton wrote: > Jerry, > > We are not communicating here. Let's start over. > > First, let me say that I agree 100% with your statements about the > effect of wind in turns. You can turn round and round all day in as > high a wind as you want, and never see a change in the IAS. Did you > hear that? I agree with you. > > But the situation is a bit different in a climb. Open your mind a > bit and work with me on this one. > > Aircraft in flight have both potential and kinetic energy. Potential > energy is the energy due to height and kinetic energy is the energy > due to speed. You can trade those types of energy against each other > by raising or lowering the nose. In level cruise, you can pull back > on the stick and go into a steep zoom climb. Your potential energy > (height) increases, and your kinetic energy (speed) decreases. You > can do the reverse with a steep dive. > > In a climb at constant airspeed, we are trying to increase the > potential energy. The rate of climb is determined by how quickly we > can increase the potential energy, which is governed by how much > horsepower we are using, how efficiently the prop uses the > horsepower, the drag of the aircraft, the aircraft weight, etc. The > kinetic energy stays the same (ignoring the fact that the difference > between IAS and TAS changes as we climb - this will have the same > effect on all the cases we are examining, so we can ignore it for to > simplify this dicussion). > > Now, let's picture a few different cases so we can examine the effect of wind. > > 1. In an ideal world, with absolutely still air (no wind), we could > do a dozen climb tests at the same conditions, and get exactly the > same results. Another way to look at it is to look at the change in > kinetic energy during a climb. If we climb at a constant airspeed in > still air, we have the same kinetic energy at the top of climb as we > had at the bottom, but our potential energy is higher. > > 2. Now let's say that we have 50 kt of wind at all altitudes. The > aicraft doesn't know the wind is there, and we get exactly the same > climb rate as case 1. Once again, we have the same kinetic energy at > the top as we had at the bottom. > > 3. Now let's look at a situation with calm air at the start of the > climb, and a 50 kt wind shear in the middle of the climb. Our climb > rate at the start of the climb is exactly the same as cases 1 & 2. > But when we hit this sudden wind shear, we instantly gain 50 kt of > airspeed. We pull back on the stick to get back to our target climb > speed, and that gives us a zoom climb for a moment, with a higer than > normal rate of climb. Once we get back on our target airspeed we > lower the nose, and have the same rate of climb we had before. But, > if we timed how long it took to do the whole climb, we would see that > the time was less than it was for cases 1 & 2, and we would calculate > a higher average rate of climb, all because of this wind shear. If > we look at the kinetic energy, we see that we have 50 kt less ground > speed at the top of climb as we had at the bottom, so we have less > kinetic energy. This energy didn't simply disappear, it got > converted to potential energy when we zoomed to get rid of that extra > 50 kt of airspeed. > > 4. Now, let's picture instead that we have five 10 kt wind shears > during this climb. Our airspeed will suddenly increase 10 kt and we > will have to raise the nose to get back on speed. This will happen > five times, and our calculated rate of climb will be higher than it > would be for cases 1 & 2. The wind speed (and our ground speed) at > the top of climb is 50 kt less than it was at the bottom. Once again, > we have less kinetic energy at the top as at the bottom, so we must > have changed that energy into potential energy during those five > small zoom climbs. > > 5. Now, let's say we have fifty 1 kt wind shears. We will still be > getting a higher calculated rate of climb, but we won't be able to > detect these wind shears from the cockpit. The wind speed (and our > ground speed) at the top of climb is 50 kt less than it was at the > bottom. We have less kinetic energy at the top as at the bottom, so > we must have changed that energy into potential energy during the > climb. > > Bottomline - changing headwind component will affect the apparent > rate of climb. This is a different problem than the classical > arguement on downwind turns, because a constant altitude turn all > happens in the same airmass, moving at the same speed. In a climb we > see a continually changing wind speed. > > Does this make sense to anyone? > > -- > Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 95% done) > Ottawa, Canada > http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Elevator Electric Trim Authority
Date: Nov 10, 2000
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Elevator Electric Trim Authority Thread-Index: AcBLJ2AaMJs++AaGTBqLgWTNprKIGgAAkKxQ
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
>I have heard of one builder that placed the throw horn inside the area >between the spars (it's also out of the airstream this way). I'll be >looking at the archives for that one - anyone have any hints on where it's >located? That sounds like a great idea. I think it would be easier to do if you didn't use the Menzimer plastic clevis, I'm not sure where you could get a smaller metal one unless you had one machined. I have also wondered if a gap seal on the trim tab would make it more effective. Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 53 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2000
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org>
Subject: Re: Fw: Sensenich 72FM Propeller
Eustace's post on the 72FM prop, along with several other of his perspicacious posts, are available on the Western Canada Wing web site, at http://www.vansairforce.org/articles/ Tedd McHenry Van's Air Force Western Canada Wing tedd(at)vansairforce.org http://www.vansairforce.org ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator Electric Trim Authority
Date: Nov 10, 2000
-----Original Message----- From: Doug Gray <douggray(at)ihug.com.au> Date: Friday, November 10, 2000 2:55 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator Electric Trim Authority > >> If anyone who has manual elevator trim or is thinking about starting >> with manual elevator trim and then switching to electric servo trim, be >> aware that with the Gretz Aero set-up you don't have to rebalance the >> elevators, as you do/will with the Van's unit because the servo for the >> Gretz system is attached under the empennage fairing, not inside the >elevator. > >Please Sir, check your plans...the Vans electric trim option includes a >shorter tab horn to compensate for the reduced travel. At least on my >plans it does. Gretz' kit does not address this...pity. >Doug Gray RV6 Wings... with manual elev trim. > The MAC servo site has an interesting nomograph that shows trim tab angular travel versus trim-tab-hinge-to-control-horn distance. My stock horn distance is 1.9 inches and to obtain 50 degrees of anglular throw I'd need to shorten the distance by 1/2 inch to 1.4 inches -- this for the MAC 8A servo. Is this what Van's electric trim drawing indicates? A downside to the shorter control is increased sensitivity and the present Gretz/MAC 8A trim system with 1.9 inch distance is almost too sensitive at cruise -- in the pattern and especially during a go-around it is too slow! The MAC site suggests two-speed controllers to overcome this problem. Note by the way that I was unable to obtain Van's specified 60 degrees of movement with either manual or electric trim due to binding of the elevator and control cable -- 50 degrees is all that I can get without distorting metal and applying lots of force. Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 8 hours Hampshire, IL C38 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2000
From: Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Nosegear attach bolt on RV-6A
I concur with "DON'T USE A SHORTER BOLT." What I ultimately did was grind off about 3/32' of the thread end of the recommended bolt. Thus the main shank of the shortened bolt still extends completely through the motor mount. I then used a washer and a thin castle nut. In my case, I could still use the predrilled hole for the cotter key. I now have about 1/8 inch clearance between the end of the bolt and the firewall, without indenting the firewall. By my way of thinking, any flexing of the strut and/or the motor mount during taxi or landing will move the bolt end AWAY from the firewall. I haven't flown yet, so take all this with a grain of salt. Charlie Brame 6A QB, on the gear San Antonio ------------------------------------------------- > From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> > Subject: RV-List: Nosegear attach bolt on RV-6A > > > Don, > > DON'T USE A SHORTER BOLT. After several 10's of hours of use, you will > elongate the hole in the motor mount on the bolt head side.... Let me > explain... > > The FULL bolt diameter MUST protrude thru the motor mount. If a shorter > bolt is used, the tread diameter area will be less than the bolt diameter, > causing the head side of the bolt/motor mount, to take on ALL torsion loads. > Eventually, this will wear the bolt hole in the mount on the head side of > the bolt. > > A better approach is to put an indentation into the firewall for proper > clearance for the nut. Since my motor was already hung, I accomplished > making the indentation with a round ended wood dowel. (or a hammer > handle...). > > Also, don't use an elastic nut, rather a castle nut with a cotter > key....... > > I'm saying this from experience....... I repaired the damage to the motor > mount after I lost the front gear leg two years ago....... > > Fred Stucklen > N925RV (1650 hrs/7 Yrs) > E. Windsor, CT 06088 > WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com > Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com > > > > ____ > Subject: RV-List: Nosegear attach bolt on RV-6A > From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> > > > I have the same problem. I hope to use a self-locking nut with > washers > under the head or a shorter bolt. > > Don Jordan RV6A Arlington, Tx > ***************************************** > > > > I was mounting my nose gear on the 6A tonight. The predrilled bolt > > > hole in > > the engine mount appears to be to high. When I insert the bolt, I > > can only > > get a nut without a washer between the engine mount and the > firewall > > and > > even then it is pressing into the firewall slightly. > > > > Is it acceptable to install one or two washers between the engine > > mount and > > the firewall to move the firewall forward? > > > > Don Mack > > RV-6A Finishing > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2000
From: "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: B&C Alternators
Hi John, It will work with any regulator. Laird RV-6 O-360 B&C L40/LR-3 equiped SoCal From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Thu, Nov 9, 2000 11:23 PM Subject: RV-List: B&C Alternators Quick question? Does the B&C L40 alternator have to be used with their linear voltage regulator or can any suitable regulator work? John Danielson Finishing kit, engine installation ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2000
From: David & Betty Burton <dburton(at)foxinternet.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Sensenich 72FM Propeller
> Doug Reeves has added a Senenich discussion board to his most excellant > website. The gang from the factory will be checking this weekly. You have > fixed pitch propeller questions? They have answers. > If you haven't been to his website you are really missing something. > The RV community owes him big thanks for the work he has put into this great > resource. http://www.vansaircraft.net (note, net not com....) Dave Burton RV6A, Wings Seattle ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2000
From: Chuck Weyant <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com>
Subject: Anodize
What is the process and what is the material they use to anodize? Chuck Weyant RV9A --- Tank Sealing -- Regards, Chuck Weyant EMail Me: chuck(at)chuckdirect.com WebSite: http://www.chuckdirect.com Santa Maria, CA 805 347-8882 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Medema, Douglas K." <doug.medema@physio-control.com>
Subject: S-type cowl trimming questions
Date: Nov 10, 2000
> Listers, > > I have one of the early S-type cowls and am finally mounting it to my '6A. > As > usual, everytime I start something new, I have questions. Reading the > archives > has indicated that I should trim off the "hook" around the inlets to allow > the > two cowl halves to pull apart without moving forward. That makes a lot of > sense. > > However, I can't get the two cowl halves to line up in the front behind > the spinner. The flanges on the bottom half around the inlets and prop opening won't allow the top half to snug up tight against the bottom to give me a smooth area behind the spinner. I tried removing some material from the top half which helped, but I would have to remove too much to get it flush. It seems like my only option is to remove the flange everywhere except on the side of the inlet where the plans call for screws/nutplates. Has anyone else had this problem or were you able to leave the flanges in this area and still get a smooth front of the cowl? Can anyone point me to some pictures on the net that show this area in some detail? All the pictures I have dug up are pictures of the whole cowl which doesn't really help. > (I don't subscribe to the list but have to check the archives. Please > copy me directly > on any response to this post at doug.medema@physio-control.com. Thanks.) > > Doug Medema > RV-6A #21140. O-320-E2D rebuilt and mounted -- on to the cowl. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: S-type cowl trimming questions
Date: Nov 10, 2000
> ... can't get the two cowl halves to line up in the front behind > the spinner. The flanges on the bottom half around the inlets and prop > opening won't allow the top half to snug up tight against the bottom to > give me a smooth area behind the spinner. [snip!] I did have to trim and grind a bit but I managed to leave most of the flange behind the prop spinner. Did cut off the innermost, 45 degree part. I'm sure people have cut more off but I'd recommend at least leaving enough of the front part (the part that's parallel to the spinner backplate) to stiffen the side that the nutplates go on. I suppose there could be some aerodynamic or cooling reasons to leave the flange on, but I think the main thing is to stiffen the nutplate side flange. That thing takes a beating, believe me! If you just can't make it fit, you can also always just cut the flange off and glass on a new one. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 10, 2000
Subject: Re: Fw: Sensenich 72FM Propeller
In a message dated 11/9/00 6:32:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, ebowhay(at)jetstream.net writes: << Very interesting day today. Had a chance to fly in a newly completed RV6A >equipped with the 72FM propeller >> What pitch? Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, working on canopy installation ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2000
From: "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: Perf testing, was: Props
Hi Kevin, Thanks for the good information. I had taken Ed Kolano's flight test weekend course a couple of months before, and still had the text and my notes. (This is pretty much the same stuff he is writing about in his Sport Aviation column, which is excellent IMHO). I also have a bunch of good engineers around here at work to help me reduce the data and make sure my procedures were on the right track. (When I started seeing all the scatter, they just grinned and said, welcome to flight test!). The biggest problem I think I had was not getting good weather conditions. During the time I was trying to get a handle on my prop data, there was a costal overcast that I would have to wait to burn off. So that left me to do testing just before sunset. I tried over 4 different days. One of the other problems I encountered was airspace restrictions. I couldn't run the tests perpendicular to the wind because of hills on one side of the valley and airspace restrictions on the other. I was able to do climbs over the ocean, but there COULD have been some rising air due to the local hills to the north. I was trying to get data from 1500 - 8500, using the techniques as written up in last months sport aviation. I was trying to keep all the variables to a minimum on different runs. Same fuel load, same weight that I was going to be flying the 85" test, and leaving the mixture rich all the way up (I wasn't trying to get best climb, just the same climb each time). I was using a staight climb at one airspeed and noting times thru specific altitude blocks. Next time I might use a sawtooth method to test thru one block a different airspeeds. I think that might be a little easier on the engine. I used a tape recorder and stopwatch as well as noting outside air on the way down. That way I could concentrate on keeping the airspeed within +/- 1 kt. I was pretty successful after some practice and concentration. It was a verrry interesting exercise in aircraft control. Having someone (and the same person on multiple tests) is a great help to take data, as long as you not looking over his shoulder while he's writing just to make sure he's doing it right. You have to train your data taker and yourself as well. I ended up just using the tape recorder and doing the data collection myself. I found that I had to practice doing the runs and use checklists so that wouldn't forget things like carb heat, flaps fuel pump (I was recording fuel flows as well). I was trying to get too much data at first. I reduced the scope of the data taking in later runs to concentrate on time/airspeed. I could go into much more detail about how I did the runs, but I think you get the idea that I tried to take a scientific approach and still came up with crap for data. (I'll blame it on the airmass :-) I learned a new appreciation for those in the industry who do this for a living, my hat is off to you guys. And I still think you end up having to pick and choose your data to plot ;-) I'd like to go back to give it another try sometime, now that I've had a little time to forget about the frustration I developed. (I'm tired of this crap, I'm just want to fly!!!) Particularly now that I'm not under a time table. Even though I didn't end up with all the good data I wanted, it was a success. I didn't hurt myself or the airplane, I learned much about my own flying, the test process and about aerodynamics and weather. Again, I want to thank Garry Legare for letting me test fly his brand new 85" prop. Even though I couldn't make the complete comparison I wanted it was a great day of flying, and got to make some new friends. (You should have seen his face when I mentioned something about doing a wheel landing with his prop still on the airplane ;-) You flight test guys are my heros. Laird From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Thu, Nov 9, 2000 8:08 PM Subject: RV-List: Perf testing, was: Props > >As in all spewing of performance #'s, this is my opinion only. The >biggest thing I learned while trying to nail down hard performance >numbers (and believe me I tried) during these tests is that "data is >easy....GOOD data is an next to impossible!" Anybody who can tell 1 >mph or 50 fpm roc are either heros or liers in my book. I couldn't >hardly repeat 3 mph or 300 fpm between the same tests on different >days. But that was just me.... > Laird, You are 100% right - it is very difficult to get good data. Here are a few tidbits, some obvious, some less so. You need smooth, stable air. Often it is worthwhile to get up really, really early to start work right after sunrise. Just before sunset can be a good time too, but not as good as often as early morning. If the air isn't perfect, don't force it. Try a different location, a higher altitude, or just give up and do some loops and rolls instead. Either way you win. Climb testing - you have to have very good airspeed control. You should be able to fly within plus or minus one mph with practice, in the right conditions. Get the airspeed nailed before the planned start altitude, and use small pitch attitude corrections to control the airspeed. If you need to use big pitch attitude changes the run is no good. Throw it away and start over. The wind will be changing as you climb, even on the best days. If you are climbing into or with the wind, the wind speed changes will cause airspeed changes, and you will have to raise or lower the nose to get back on the correct speed. This will affect the rate of climb, and you will have bad data. You want the wind at about 90 degrees to your heading, so the wind speed changes don't have as much affect on the airspeed. Also, do two runs at headings 180 degrees apart, and average the rates of climb for the two runs. A wind change with altitude that gives a speed increase on one run will give a speed decrease on the next run, and the average will be pretty good. You need reasonably good heading control to make the most of this technique. The amount of sideslip will also affect the drag, so make sure the ball is in the same place on all the runs. If you are leaning during the climb, use a consistent technique. If the local terrain is has big hills, you need light winds, or you can get small waves being formed, giving very smooth, but rising and falling air. If the airspeed keeps changing in level flight that is a bad sign. Take several sets of data at each condition, preferably on different days. If you have enough data sets, you will be able to pick out the ones with strange results (either too high a rate of climb, or two low), and throw them out. You need to be very, very patient and meticulous to get good perf data. Take care, -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 95% done) Ottawa, Canada http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2000
From: Chuck Weyant <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com>
Subject: Re: Wood Gas Tank Clamps
When giving them a good squeeze, do you keep the clamp on the clamp or move the clamp to the next clamp? Vince at Cactus wrote: > When you place the wood clamp over the pro sealed joint, be sure to give > them a good squeeze with a clamp. > > Regards, > > Vince Himsl > RV8 fuselage > Moscow, ID USA > > Subject: RV-List: Wood Gas Tank Clamps > -- Regards, Chuck Weyant EMail Me: chuck(at)chuckdirect.com WebSite: http://www.chuckdirect.com Santa Maria, CA 805 347-8882 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2000
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: B&C Alternators
> > Quick question? > Does the B&C L40 alternator have to be used with their linear voltage > > regulator or can any suitable regulator work? > > John Danielson > Finishing kit, engine installation Any suitable regulator will work. I have their linear voltage regulator on my L60. ==== Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 720+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator Electric Trim Authority
Date: Nov 10, 2000
-----Original Message----- From: Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net> Date: Friday, November 10, 2000 8:22 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator Electric Trim Authority > >I've been looking at this one for a while also - my problem has been getting >the right horn set. Seems that there are a number (at least four that I can >determine) different designs that have been produced by Van's. I have three >sets of horn parts - two manual and one electric . Only one set fits the >trim tab skin that came with my empennage kit - it's a manual with a -1 >suffix for the part number. > >Although the Gretz kit says to use the manual trim horns, I'm planning on >building a set that is more like the Electric elevator kind fitting my trim >tab. It will have the fore/aft dimensions of the manual design produced by >Van's in order to fit the manual type cable supplied with the Gretz kit that >I have. I'm also looking at the clevis/hinge distance of the electric horn >design for more throw. Since we're hearing complaints of inadequate throw >even from those with the stock electric trim setup, I think that an even >shorter clevis/hinge distance is necessary. I am building a CS/O360 6A - >which seems to be the greatest offender in this fray. >> >Ralph Capen >RV6AQB N822AR reserved...too many things to do so this can wait a while > I have traded off nosedown trim for noseup trim as far as I can go with the Gretz trim system and I still don't have enough noseup trim on approach to final at 20% forward CG. There is a very good nonograph on the MAC servo site that relates horn radius to trim tab travel. Note by the way that I could only obtain 50 degrees of travel as opposed to the 60 that Van's specifies due to binding of both the Gretz and Van's cable. The binding that limits me to 50 degrees is due to the control cable between the MAC 8A servo mounted on the rear tailcone deck and the control horn. Specifically, the rod coming out of the cable at the horn end needs to be able to swivel around in a larger cone angle to eliminate the binding. There is alot of movement to accommodate when you consider the full range of the elevator. I had the same binding with Van's cable. I found it interesting in the Gretz instructions that he points out that in his system and Van's, the outer cable housing must be free to slide! This is to allow for elevator movement.This was quite a surprise to me, but he sure is right! It changed completely the way I chose to route and bush the cable. With the cable disconnected, I have gobs of trim tab angulation. Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 9 hours Hampshire, IL C38 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jim jewell" <jjewell(at)okanagan.net>
Subject: Re: Anodize
Date: Nov 10, 2000
Hello Chuck, A quote from the Alcan Handbook of Aluminum: printed 1957 ""Anodizing" is an electro-chemical process whereby the oxide film on aluminum is artificially thickened by passing a current in an acid electrolyte with the aluminum as the anode. The acids used are sulfuric,chromic, oxalic, boric and phosphoric. Sulfuric acid is the most commonly used electrolyte, sulfuric acid anodizing being known as the "alumilite" process. Chromic acid is also used to some extent but oxalic acid anodizing has not found favor in North America. Boric acid anodizing is used exclusively for the production of high dielectric films on aluminum capacitor foil. phosphoric acid anodizing has found some application as a pre-plating treatment. Aluminum oxide is colorless and transparent, is relatively inert chemically, is very hard and is a good electrical insulator.A film of oxide will form immediately on bare aluminum when it is exposed to the atmosphere. although this film will grow over a period of time it will remain extremely thin about 0.000,000,2 inch thick ). The anodizing process results in a very much thicker and more uniform film, the actual process and procedure used dictating the thickness and characteristics of the coating obtained. a film as thick as 0.005 inch can be produced". Without wading deeper into the text this chapter in the book goes on to say that architectural anodized decorative coatings are achieved by the use of suitable alloy and surface preparation and treatment. The recommended thickness of the decorative coatings are 0.0004 inch for indoor 0.0008 for outdoor. Since all anodic films are porous as they leave the anodizing bath the must be sealed as a final operation. for a clear coating hot water is used. however , by immersing in a dye prior to sealing , the film may be a chosen color. alternatively by using as a sealant a chemical with an inhibiting action, the corrosion resistance can be further increased. These coatings are also used solely for corrosion-resistance.The alternative chromic acid process results in a film that is rather thinner and softer than the Alumiliting process. Though this book, the second edition, printed 1957 is not the latest information. I doubt that the procedures described have changed all that much. Is this the answer you seek? Jim in Kelowna - engineering footwell floorboards ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Weyant <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 8:32 AM Subject: RV-List: Anodize > > What is the process and what is the material they use to anodize? > > Chuck Weyant > RV9A --- Tank Sealing > > -- > Regards, > > Chuck Weyant > EMail Me: chuck(at)chuckdirect.com > WebSite: http://www.chuckdirect.com > Santa Maria, CA > 805 347-8882 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince at Cactus" <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com>
Subject: Wood Gas Tank Clamps
Date: Nov 10, 2000
Hello, I applied (sparingly) the required parts of the rear baffle, a little on the tank skin, ribs, etc. I then placed the baffle into the tank assembly. Pop riveted the rib and Z flanges (I think, check plans) and then standard rivet the skins. After riveting, I placed the clamps as described in the plans (roughly twenty) and then gave them a good squeeze in turn with my vise-grip c-clamp pliers. I suspect the bulging mentioned in some posts is the result of excessive pro seal though I am hardly an expert. [Ref: ] (in archives) talks about this. Having said all that, when I was done, I did have some leaks I had to fix. So don't feel like you are the only one. Again Scott McDaniels gives in my opinion one of the best posts as to what to do [Ref: ]. Works great. Recommend George Ordoff's videos. Nothing beats seeing before doing. When done, I used the balloon method to test for leaks (be very careful on the air pressure or you'll create rather than find). I didn't buy that expensive leak tester stuff. Go to the toy store and buy some jars of "Mr. Bubble". Yep, works great at a fraction of the cost. It helps In adjusting the screw on your gas cap too. When done, wash off the tank with a hose. Regards, Vince Himsl RV8 fuselage Moscow, ID USA -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chuck Weyant Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 10:15 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Wood Gas Tank Clamps When giving them a good squeeze, do you keep the clamp on the clamp or move the clamp to the next clamp? Vince at Cactus wrote: > When you place the wood clamp over the pro sealed joint, be sure to give > them a good squeeze with a clamp. > > Regards, > > Vince Himsl > RV8 fuselage > Moscow, ID USA > > Subject: RV-List: Wood Gas Tank Clamps > -- Regards, Chuck Weyant EMail Me: chuck(at)chuckdirect.com WebSite: http://www.chuckdirect.com Santa Maria, CA 805 347-8882 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rv660wm(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 10, 2000
Subject: Re: Perf testing, was: Props(long DNA)
In a message dated 11/10/00 12:26:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, khorton(at)cyberus.ca writes: > If you are flying and the headwind or tailwind component > of the wind changes, you will effectively gain or lose energy, and > have to raise or lower the nose slightly to compensate. Ok, you guys lured me into giving my $.02 worth. I beleive that what Kevin is saying is correct, except I am not convinced that we turn too slowly to have an impact while turning. You can definitely demonstrate it in an UL. If I fly 90 degrees to a strong wind and then do a turn up wind and another downwind all at a constant airspeed with a very responsive airspeed indicator(a pith ball in a tube), at the end of the turn I will be at a higher altitude when I turn into the wind. You convert part of your kinetic energy into altitude because you go slower relative to the ground(i.e. upwind turn) and you have to get energy when you go down wind and you get it by giving up altitude. A demonstratable effect. Maybe the analysis is suspect,but the effect is there. Bernie Kerr, 6A flying again after a long hiatus getting it painted. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Test Flights
Date: Nov 10, 2000
N809Rs took its second and third test flights yesterday and today. Flights one and two for me. It is unbeliveable how stable and rock solid she is. I also got to do my very first rolls today. Did a total of four. I had to stop between each one for a moment to let my inner ears catch up. Man!, is that fun. As of yet I am terrible, not the planes fault, but what a gas. The oil temps are still a bit high but have come down. They stayed consistantly between 216 and 220. The outside air today was about 81 at 2500 feet. I am getting ready to change the oil cooler. The Stewart Warner is a bit narrower so I will have to make a different mount for it from the Positech. The right wing is a bit light. The aileron trailing edges were deflected about 3/16 of an inch from center. I will try sqeezing the right aileron trailing edge first. The good part is that the elevator trim is right on the money and the rudder will not need any trim at all. I guess having to adjust the aileron ain't so bad. I could have had to adjust all three. With two people on board and 30 gallons of fuel she trued out at 146 kts today at 2000 today buring just about 9.2 gph. Not bad. The other surprise is that she isn't burning any oil. I put in 8 qts before the first run. After the first run she showed 7 qts. Last night I cleaned the oil filter (she has a remote ADC oil filter using a waffer screen) and she now reads 6.5 qts. I also ran into a mode C problem today that looks suspesiously like a loos wire. I hate thinking about going behind the panel but Oh Well. Next flight we are going to try to get some air to air off Waikiki and Diamond Head. I will post them when I get them. Mike Robertson RV-8A N809RS 3.1 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Test Flights
Date: Nov 10, 2000
N809Rs took its second and third test flights yesterday and today. Flights one and two for me. It is unbeliveable how stable and rock solid she is. I also got to do my very first rolls today. Did a total of four. I had to stop between each one for a moment to let my inner ears catch up. Man!, is that fun. As of yet I am terrible, not the planes fault, but what a gas. The oil temps are still a bit high but have come down. They stayed consistantly between 216 and 220. The outside air today was about 81 at 2000 feet. I am getting ready to change the oil cooler. The Stewart Warner is a bit narrower so I will have to make a different mount for it from the Positech. The right wing is a bit light. The aileron trailing edges were deflected about 3/16 of an inch from center. I will try squeezing the right aileron trailing edge first. The good part is that the elevator trim is right on the money and the rudder will not need any trim at all. I guess having to adjust the aileron ain't so bad. I could have had to adjust all three. With two people on board (around 425 lbs)and 30 gallons of fuel she trued out at 146 kts today at 2000 ft today burning just about 9.2 gph at 23 squared. Not bad. The other surprise is that she isn't burning any oil. I put in 8 qts before the first run. After the first run she showed 7 qts. Last night I cleaned the oil filter (she has a remote ADC oil filter using a wafer screen) and she now reads 6.5 qts. I also ran into a mode C problem today that looks suspesiously like a loose wire. I hate thinking about going behind the panel but, Oh Well! Next flight we are going to try to get some air to air off Waikiki and Diamond Head. I will post them when I get them. Mike Robertson RV-8A N809RS 3.1 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net>
Subject: Re: Perf testing, was: Props(long DNA)
Date: Nov 10, 2000
Hey Bernie, so where are the pics of the newly painted -6? Mike Nellis - RV-6 Wings N699BM (res) Plainfield, IL http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: High Rear Cylinder CHTs 6A
Date: Nov 10, 2000
My rear cylinder head CHTs in my Bart's O360A1A/Hartzell (as measured by a one-point calibrated VM1000 system) are higher than the front CHTs and I'd like to drop the rear temps. The average of many flights at high MP and power levels of 75% or greater (for breakin) are, for cylinders 1,2, 3, 4, respectively: 378, 386, 394, 412. The Positec oil cooler is mounted behind #4, thus stealing some cylinder cooling air. Have any of you fabricated dams to block the front cylinders? If so, what do they look like and did you succeed in dropping the rear temps? Thanks. Dennis Persyk 6A O360A1A/Hartzell 10 hours Hampshire, IL C38 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 10, 2000
Subject: Re: Test Flights
> The other surprise is that she isn't burning any oil. Mike, how do you figure that?! Sounds to me like you are down 1.5 qts in just 3 hrs of flying. If any of that lost oil got on your antenna farm, I believe I know what's amiss with your transponder ;-) >I put in 8 qts before the first run. After the first run she showed 7 qts. >Last night I cleaned the oil filter (she has a remote ADC oil filter using a >wafer screen) and she now reads 6.5 qts. Bill Boyd RV-6A O-320/FP Sensenich Hop-Along Airfield - 12VA Clifton Forge, VA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2000
From: Thomas McIntyre <bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator Electric Trim Authority
Here's and easy fix, Make the trim tab larger. Tom RV3 978TM 1600+ hours Dennis Persyk wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Friday, November 10, 2000 8:22 AM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator Electric Trim Authority > > > > >I've been looking at this one for a while also - my problem has been > getting > >the right horn set. Seems that there are a number (at least four that I > can > >determine) different designs that have been produced by Van's. I have > three > >sets of horn parts - two manual and one electric . Only one set fits the > >trim tab skin that came with my empennage kit - it's a manual with a -1 > >suffix for the part number. > > > >Although the Gretz kit says to use the manual trim horns, I'm planning on > >building a set that is more like the Electric elevator kind fitting my trim > >tab. It will have the fore/aft dimensions of the manual design produced by > >Van's in order to fit the manual type cable supplied with the Gretz kit > that > >I have. I'm also looking at the clevis/hinge distance of the electric horn > >design for more throw. Since we're hearing complaints of inadequate throw > >even from those with the stock electric trim setup, I think that an even > >shorter clevis/hinge distance is necessary. I am building a CS/O360 6A - > >which seems to be the greatest offender in this fray. > >> > >Ralph Capen > >RV6AQB N822AR reserved...too many things to do so this can wait a while > > > > I have traded off nosedown trim for noseup trim as far as I can go with the > Gretz trim system and I still don't have enough noseup trim on approach to > final at 20% forward CG. There is a very good nonograph on the MAC servo > site that relates horn radius to trim tab travel. > > Note by the way that I could only obtain 50 degrees of travel as opposed to > the 60 that Van's specifies due to binding of both the Gretz and Van's > cable. > > The binding that limits me to 50 degrees is due to the control cable between > the MAC 8A servo mounted on the rear tailcone deck and the control horn. > Specifically, the rod coming out of the cable at the horn end needs to be > able to swivel around in a larger cone angle to eliminate the binding. > There is alot of movement to accommodate when you consider the full range of > the elevator. I had the same binding with Van's cable. > > I found it interesting in the Gretz instructions that he points out that in > his system and Van's, the outer cable housing must be free to slide! This is > to allow for elevator movement.This was quite a surprise to me, but he sure > is right! It changed completely the way I chose to route and bush the > cable. > > With the cable disconnected, I have gobs of trim tab angulation. > > Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 9 hours > Hampshire, IL C38 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: High Rear Cylinder CHTs 6A
Date: Nov 10, 2000
Thread-Topic: RV-List: High Rear Cylinder CHTs 6A Thread-Index: AcBLefiXR8Eia4eKROSZGLvSWjLt0wACK7cg
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
Dennis, Run down to your hardware store and pick up some aluminum tape and apply it to the front of the #1 & 2 cylinders. You can easily easily experiment with the size and shape that way, once you figure out what works then you can make permenant aluminum dams. I would suggest that you initially concentrate on getting the temps down under 400 degress, and not concentrate on temperature differences. The CHT's will eventually settle down after your first oil change, then you can try to tweak the temps. Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ O-360 C/S 53 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wilson, James Mike" <james.mike.wilson(at)intel.com>
"'Randy Lervold'"@matronics.com
Subject: Buffing questions
Date: Nov 10, 2000
Randy, I'm using concept and have been successful sanding and buffing as soon as 24 hours, I think it is better to wait at least 48 hours but seem to remember a PPG article saying within one week. I've had best success with 1500 (straight long strokes) followed by 2000 (circular hand palm) sanding. Cut and buff should be done with a rotary buffing tool. The DA does not give the right action (at least not for me). When I get back next week, you can come see my fuse. It doesn't look to bad. Later, Mike RV4 ever project -----Original Message----- From: Randy Lervold [mailto:randy@rv-8.com] Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 6:41 PM Subject: RV-List: Buffing questions Gang, Well, I made it all the way to my wing tips before getting a run. I don't feel too bad because this was caused by the vent in the lid of my paint gun getting clogged. Gradually the paint flow was getting choked off so I was having to go slower and slower. Then it cleared of course and dumped a bunch of paint just as I was doing the middle of the top section. Seconds later it of course formed into a run... what a helpless feeling! Anyway, per Sam Buchanan's advice I will be sanding and buffing (plus my flaps have a bit too much orange peel for my taste although the ailerons look pretty good). This leads me to my quesitons... -How long should you wait before sanding/buffing? (Concept seems to take at least two weeks to fully harden) -Is a DA sander preferrable to a rotary one? -Are sponge pads better than wool ones? -What compound are folks having success with? Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500, learning lots about painting! Home Wing VAF ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Perf testing, was: Props
> >Hi Kevin, > >Thanks for the good information. I had taken Ed Kolano's flight >test weekend course a couple of months before, and still had the >text and my notes. (This is pretty much the same stuff he is writing >about in his Sport Aviation column, which is excellent IMHO). I >also have a bunch of good engineers around here at work to help me >reduce the data and make sure my procedures were on the right track. >(When I started seeing all the scatter, they just grinned and said, >welcome to flight test!). > >The biggest problem I think I had was not getting good weather >conditions. During the time I was trying to get a handle on my prop >data, there was a costal overcast that I would have to wait to burn >off. So that left me to do testing just before sunset. I tried >over 4 different days. > >One of the other problems I encountered was airspace restrictions. >I couldn't run the tests perpendicular to the wind because of hills >on one side of the valley and airspace restrictions on the other. I >was able to do climbs over the ocean, but there COULD have been some >rising air due to the local hills to the north. I was trying to get >data from 1500 - 8500, using the techniques as written up in last >months sport aviation. > >I was trying to keep all the variables to a minimum on different >runs. Same fuel load, same weight that I was going to be flying the >85" test, and leaving the mixture rich all the way up (I wasn't >trying to get best climb, just the same climb each time). > >I was using a staight climb at one airspeed and noting times thru >specific altitude blocks. Next time I might use a sawtooth method >to test thru one block a different airspeeds. I think that might be >a little easier on the engine. A sawtooth climb is also easier on the pilot, as you can rest a bit between runs. You'll get better data if you are fresh for each test point. Sawtooth climbs are also very well suited to doing two runs at each test point, on reciprocal headings. This helps the data quality too. > >I used a tape recorder and stopwatch as well as noting outside air >on the way down. That way I could concentrate on keeping the >airspeed within +/- 1 kt. I was pretty successful after some >practice and concentration. > >It was a verrry interesting exercise in aircraft control. Having >someone (and the same person on multiple tests) is a great help to >take data, as long as you not looking over his shoulder while he's >writing just to make sure he's doing it right. You have to train >your data taker and yourself as well. I ended up just using the >tape recorder and doing the data collection myself. We use flight test engineers to take data. It is much harder to fly and take data yourself. Even using a tape recorder requires a certain amount of mental energy, to read the instruments aloud. You'll get your best data if you can just fly the aircraft, and have someone else worry about recording data, watching for other traffic, etc. > >I found that I had to practice doing the runs and use checklists so >that wouldn't forget things like carb heat, flaps fuel pump (I was >recording fuel flows as well). I was trying to get too much data at >first. I reduced the scope of the data taking in later runs to >concentrate on time/airspeed. Yeah, I should have mentioned checklists. You seem to lose about half your mental capacity as soon as you get in an airplane, and it is even worse when you try to have as many balls in the air at once as you do when flight testing. We use pre-test checklists and post-test checklists right in the test cards, and custom checklists for emergency procedures that are specific to the test. These emergency procedures are posted right in the cockpit (e.g. rapid relight procedure if we have one engine shutdown at low altitude on a twin engined aircraft). >I could go into much more detail about how I did the runs, but I >think you get the idea that I tried to take a scientific approach >and still came up with crap for data. (I'll blame it on the airmass >:-) > >I learned a new appreciation for those in the industry who do this >for a living, my hat is off to you guys. And I still think you end >up having to pick and choose your data to plot ;-) One thing we often do is to do several different goes at the same test point on different days, and reduce them all to standard conditions (i.e. standard atmosphere, nominal gross weight, etc). If you only have one set of data for each test point, it is hard to say whether it is good or bad data. If you do several different runs at the same test point on different days, you can plot all the data points on the same graph. You'll see pretty quickly which ones are screwy. We keep the ones that are bunched nicely together, and throw the odd ball ones away, as long as there aren't too many of them. Too many oddball points may be telling you a story about something (variable engine perf, highly variable weather, pilot in need of more practice, odd handling qualities that make the aircraft unusually hard to fly accurately, etc). Take care, -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 95% done) Ottawa, Canada http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com>
Subject: Re: Perf testing, was: Props
Date: Nov 10, 2000
- > >Does this make sense to anyone? > >-- >Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 95% done) >Ottawa, Canada >http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html Kevin: Excellent post. Your description of the interchanges of kinetic energy, potential energy and the atmosphere is first rate. I have observed these effects in some of my own flight testing. On one occasion, when flying a series of timed climbs, what I had thought was pretty stable air had a thin shear layer at about mid climb and it caused a step in the data every time. It was not large, but it was clearly perceptible. I have even observed something like it it level flight speed runs where when flying through a small atmospheric shift a brief excursion of the indicated airspeed was noted and repeatable. There was a small temperature change associated with it. With regard to the interchange of kinetic and potential energy, glider pilots apply a correction to their variometers (sensitive rate of climb instruments) so that changes in airspeed induced by the pilot are not reflected in changes of R of C's on their instruments. Since a glider pilot has no means of increasing his total energy except by the atmosphere, the total energy correction partially unmasks what the atmosphere is doing. My best results in climb testing in SE Michigan occurred early morning, beneath a high overcast with little wind. Even so, the wind at altitude was different than at the surface. I finally stopped the tests out of concern for the engine. I was typically timing intervals from 3000' to 10000' and so to get a stable climb before passing through 3K required at least an extra 1K, having come up to full power as slowly as possible. Then, levelling at 10K and backing off slowly and starting a letdown gentle enough to give the engine a chance took considerable time. Took longer to get down than to go up. I do not assert that the data I obtained was accurate on an absolute scale, but for my purposes it was useful. Gordon Comfort N363GC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 11, 2000
Subject: Re: Stereo decks
In a message dated 11/7/2000 3:01:07 PM Central Standard Time, bcbraem(at)home.com writes: << Chris-- Do you have model#. I called the local audio shop and they didn't have a clue about the Aiwa (sp?). Thanks Boyd >> its in the crutchfield catalog ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Terminaltown(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 11, 2000
Subject: New How To Page
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com, zenith-list(at)matronics.com Hello Listers: A new HOW TO page. How to connect to small pins and tabs using solder seals. Terminal Town's Electrical Connector: How To Connect Tabs Using Solder Seals or http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page80.html Best regards, John Caldwell@ Terminal Town's Home Page ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Terminaltown(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 11, 2000
Subject: New How To Page
Hello Listers: A new HOW TO page. How to connect to small pins and tabs using solder seals. Terminal Town's Electrical Connector: How To Connect Tabs Using Solder Seals or http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page80.html Best regards, John Caldwell@ Terminal Town's Home Page ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rv660wm(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 11, 2000
Subject: Re: Perf testing, was: Props(long DNA)
In a message dated 11/10/00 6:57:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, mnellis(at)emailusa.net writes: > Hey Bernie, so where are the pics of the newly painted -6? Mike, I don't have the graffics on yet because you have to wait and let the paint gas off before applying them. I may paste up some dummies and make a picture. Bernie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2000
From: barrys <barrys(at)viconet.com>
Subject: rv9a instruction manual
A heads up to RV9 builders......... page 6-7 9s6r1.doc 2/23/00 Elevator...... The last 2 paragraphs on the page should be reversed. The horn should be mounted to the spar 1st, then the top skin riveted on. While it can be done, as printed, it is much more difficult. Check with Van's if there is any question about this. Barry RV9a N666BP reserved. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Perf testing, was: Props
> >Kevin: Excellent post. Your description of the interchanges of kinetic >energy, potential energy and the atmosphere is first rate. I have observed >these effects in some of my own flight testing. On one occasion, when >flying a series of timed climbs, what I had thought was pretty stable air >had a thin shear layer at about mid climb and it caused > > a step in the data every time. It was not large, but it was clearly perceptible. Gordon, Interesting post. The effect you noted in those climbs is exactly why it is useful to do two runs at headings 180 degrees apart. The increasing performance shear you see on one run will be a decreasing performance shear on a run in the other direction. You average the rates of climb, and the error disappears. This works best on sawtooth climbs over a reasonably sized altitude block. Just in case someone is interested, sawtooth climbs are named from the way the data looks if you an onboard data recording system, and you plot alitude vs time. You see a shallow upward slope as the altitude increases during the climb, then a steeper downwards slope as the altitude decreases in the dive back down to do the next climb. Do a few of those, and it looks like a bunch of saw teeth. Take care, -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 95% done) Ottawa, Canada http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Ludwig" <ludwig(at)azstarnet.com>
Subject: Electric trim question...
Date: Nov 11, 2000
Hi all, I just installed the Electric Trim option in my RV-8 and it seems like the spring tension on the control stick would be annoying in flight. I'd like some feedback from anyone who is flying this system. Thanks, - Bill in Tucson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Sensenich 72FM Propeller
Date: Nov 11, 2000
Hi Mike: The pitch was 83 inches. I notice in Van's 2000 catalog that the recommended pitch for the 6A with the 180 HP engine is 84. After flying the 83 I would have to agree that this is probably a better choice for cruising at the expense of loosing a small amount of take-off and climb performance. Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> Date: Thursday, November 09, 2000 8:47 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: Sensenich 72FM Propeller > > >--- Eustace Bowhay wrote: >> >> >> Hi John: >> >> Was unable to bring this up in the achieves so am forwarding for your >> info. >> >> Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. > > >And good info it is! One lttle bit missing is the pitch of that prop! >Unless I missed it... > >Mike Thompson >Austin, TX >-6 N140RV (Reserved) >Canopy > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: RV emotions
Date: Nov 11, 2000
Fellow Listers: I was discussing the trials and tribulations of my cowling work with our local RV tech counselor this morning. I was lamenting which is worse: fuel tank assembly, canopy cutting, or cowl trimming/fiberglass work. He summed up the range of emotions for these three most challenging tasks of RV building thusly: Fuel tanks: ughhh!! Canopy: fear!! Cowling: anger!! ------------------- Doug RV-4 cowling (making a mess) ================ Doug Weiler Hudson, WI 715-386-1239 dougweil(at)pressenter.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Dollies
Date: Nov 11, 2000
Hi George, I posted a couple pictures here -> http://www.egroups.com/files/rv8list/Wing+Carts/ I have some more, but I can't find them right now... Bill VonDane, Colorado Springs, CO RV-8A, N8VD, Fuselage http://vondane.com/rv8a/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "George True" <true(at)uswest.net> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 9:01 AM Subject: RV-List: Wing Dollies In the past, I have seen photos of dollies or cradles, usually on wheels, that people have made for storing a completed set of wings. But now I don't remember where I saw them. Does anybody have pictures, dimensions, etc that they could share or point me to? Thanks, George True ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2000
From: earl fortner <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RV4 Canopy
Just drilled the forward canopy skin to frame and now the front edge is riding above the skin it was flush with before drilling. I guess the square tubing in not in the proper plane and lifting the skin up a bit. Can the edge be rolled. Anyone else had this problem? Earl RV4 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Consumption Charts
Date: Nov 11, 2000
Hiya all, Let me summarize this confusing issue to see if I understand it. First, assume a carburetted engine where an egt gage is not needed: For best economy: Below 5000 feet and full power, don't lean at all. At reduced power settings (65% or less?) lean till ruff then enrich slightly. Best low and slow economy may be at 55%. Above 5000 feet (7500ft?) lean till ruff then enrich slightly. For best power: Below 5000 feet and full power, don't lean at all. Above 5000 feet (7500ft?) lean for best airspeed. For injected engines, turbocharged engines etc --- I don't care 'cuz I don't have one. hal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Dollies
Date: Nov 11, 2000
>From: George True <true(at)uswest.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Wing Dollies >Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 09:01:21 -0700 > > >In the past, I have seen photos of dollies or cradles, usually on >wheels, that people have made for storing a completed set of wings. But >now I don't remember where I saw them. Does anybody have pictures, >dimensions, etc that they could share or point me to? > >Thanks, > >George True > George, Here's a deal for ya. Drive out here (in a pickup truck) and pick up my wheeled wing carriage and take it home for free! Pics are on my webpage. It's VERY stout and served me well. Could also take you for a ride in my -8 if that's not asking too much. hehe. Best of luck, Brian Denk RV8 N94BD Albuquerque, NM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2000
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Dollies
George True wrote: > > > In the past, I have seen photos of dollies or cradles, usually on > wheels, that people have made for storing a completed set of wings. But > now I don't remember where I saw them. Does anybody have pictures, > dimensions, etc that they could share or point me to? Scroll to the bottom of the page: http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/wing_lg4.html Sam Buchanan (RV-6) "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2000
From: KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: RV4 Canopy
>Just drilled the forward canopy skin to frame and now the front edge is >riding above the skin it was flush with before drilling. I guess the >square tubing in not in the proper plane and lifting the skin up a bit. >Can the edge be rolled. Hey, Earl: Arrrrgggg. The front canopy skin. Oh, yeah, I remember that. I installed the original skin and, as you found, had it rising up and not matching up with the fuselage skin no matter what I did. Anything I did to get it to fit did not meet my building standards. Here's what I did: I ordered a new skin from Van's. I then made several poster board patterns of the skin before I cut metal. I ended up splitting the skin in the middle to get it to fit the way I wanted to. The splice doesn't show as it is under the canopy fairing. It ended up being VERY much easier to fit in two pieces. After it was fitting the way I thought it should, I put a slight downward bend at the forward edge to give the skin a better seal against the fuselage skin. You want that to seal as it is where cold air and rain can slip in if it is not. Besides a tight fit looks better. A curved "flanged" end takes a lot of work to get it smooth. Mine seals well, looks good. Keep at it; you are going to love this airplane. Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2000
From: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
Subject: Avionic Shielded Wire Grounds
My Apollo avionics wiring diagrams specify shielded wires for some functions. What is the rationale for some shields to be grounded only at one end while others are grounded at both ends? Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A, Instrument wiring ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2000
From: Robert Graves <rlgbee(at)fnbnet.net>
Subject: NavAid
Help! I reinstalled NavAid in my RV-4. Not many wires but I have messed it up. Can someone send me the wiring diagram ( external hook up)?? Would appreciate this. Send off-line, if possible. Robert rlgbee(at)fnbnet.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rvpilot" <rvpilot(at)coollink.net>
Subject: Re: Electric trim question...
Date: Nov 11, 2000
Bill, You wont even notice it in flight and it works great. Bill in FL RV-8 N48WD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Ludwig" <ludwig(at)azstarnet.com> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 11:07 AM Subject: RV-List: Electric trim question... > > Hi all, > > I just installed the Electric Trim option in my RV-8 and it seems like the > spring tension on the control stick would be annoying in flight. I'd like > some feedback from anyone who is flying this system. > > Thanks, > > - Bill in Tucson > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2000
From: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Help-Sensenich installation challenge
Okay, I just trashed my new front spinner bulkhead while trying to torque the prop bolts. I have an O-320 with 7/16 prop bolts and the installation instructions says to torque to 480-540 inch pounds. This squeezed the metal under the bolts on the front spinner bulkhead enough to completely distort it. I tried working the metal flat again and re drilling the holes then using larger washers but it did the same thing again. I think my first mistake was using the small diameter washers that were supplied with the bolts. In retrospect, of course this much bolt torque is going to extrude the soft aluminum. I'm now at a loss as to how big the washers need to be so I don't have to try it a third time. You guys with 1/2" bolts on the O-360's, have you had this problem? Surely I don't need a crush plate for the aluminum bulkhead do I? Thanks in advance for the help. Mike Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Aurora, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator Electric Trim Authority
Date: Nov 11, 2000
-----Original Message----- From: Doug Gray <douggray(at)ihug.com.au> Date: Friday, November 10, 2000 2:55 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator Electric Trim Authority > >> If anyone who has manual elevator trim or is thinking about starting >> with manual elevator trim and then switching to electric servo trim, be >> aware that with the Gretz Aero set-up you don't have to rebalance the >> elevators, as you do/will with the Van's unit because the servo for the >> Gretz system is attached under the empennage fairing, not inside the >elevator. > >Please Sir, check your plans...the Vans electric trim option includes a >shorter tab horn to compensate for the reduced travel. At least on my >plans it does. Gretz' kit does not address this...pity. >Doug Gray RV6 Wings... with manual elev trim. Doug, What is the distance from tab hinge center line to hole center in the horn? My preview plans showing electric elevator trim don't give that dimension. It is two inches on drawing 5a for the manual trim system. I'd like to try a shorter horn with my Gretz trim. Thanks. Denis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 11 hours Hampshire, IL C38 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2000
Subject: instrument panel angle support
From: "Robert Dickson" <bubba(at)coastalnet.com>
I've got the instrument panel fitted to the f-6106 forward skin and am ready to prepare the angle support that joins panel and skin. I've come upon some inconsistencies, however, that I'd like to clear up before I proceed. I want to attach the panel to the angle with screws and nutplates so it will be removable, but the instructions say to use #6 screws while the plans call for #8 screws. The plans also call for using a KS-1000-08 nutplate. What does the "s" mean? I've got lots with just a "k." The plans also call for 2.5" spacing when using screws/nutplates. This would mean that there would only be a screw in every other flange cut into the angle. Does this work ok? It wouldn't kill me to put a screw/nutplate (repeat after me - I love nutplates!) in every notched flange, but I'd love to know what others have done. One more thing - can I just drill this thing for -3 rivets to the top skin? After spending what seems like enough time to hand count all the votes in you-know-where to fit this darn panel, I don't want to screw it up now. as usual, thanks Robert Dickson RV-6A wall-to-wall paneling ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2000
Subject: Re: Elevator Electric Trim Authority
From: Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com>
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator Electric Trim Authority I've been looking at this one for a while also - my problem has been getting the right horn set. Seems that there are a number (at least four that I can determine) different designs that have been produced by Van's. I have three sets of horn parts - two manual and one electric . Only one set fits the trim tab skin that came with my empennage kit - it's a manual with a -1 suffix for the part number. Although the Gretz kit says to use the manual trim horns, I'm planning on building a set that is more like the Electric elevator kind fitting my trim tab. It will have the fore/aft dimensions of the manual design produced by Van's in order to fit the manual type cable supplied with the Gretz kit that I have. I'm also looking at the clevis/hinge distance of the electric horn design for more throw. Since we're hearing complaints of inadequate throw even from those with the stock electric trim setup, I think that an even shorter clevis/hinge distance is necessary. I am building a CS/O360 6A - which seems to be the greatest offender in this fray. The question that I have is for those that have already modified their horns for more throw by decreasing the distance between the hinge and the clevis. What distance did you end up with and how successful were the results?? I have heard of one builder that placed the throw horn inside the area between the spars (it's also out of the airstream this way). I'll be looking at the archives for that one - anyone have any hints on where it's located? Ralph Capen RV6AQB N822AR reserved...too many things to do so this can wait a while I am not meaning to say that changing from the "as designed" trim tab control horn shouldn't be done... just consider carefully before you make a change. Be aware that shortening the control horn will raise the required torque output of the trim motor/servo. I do not know how close the current design is to being at the motors limit. There may be a large margin, or maybe not (maybe someone on the list would be capable of doing a rough calculation). The other issue is one of sensitivity. Unless you use a speed control it is already difficult to make very precise adjustments at cruise speeds. Shortening the arm would just make it worse. A different angle to the discussion that I would like to ask Matt if he is monitoring this thread... The new RV-9A prototype has electric trim which is connected through one of the Matronics speed controls. With the way I have it currently adjusted it is great for tweaking the pitch trim at max. cruise speed but it is a bit slower than I would like while flying in the pattern. Particularly in a situation such as a go-around with the trim set for a power off glide with full flaps. Matt, I was wondering if you have/would consider building a control line into your circuit that would enable/disable the speed controlling function of the switch. This could then be connected to either a panel mounted selector switch, a sensing switch on the flaps, or both. A ground activation would be simpler from an installation standpoint but +V activation would be ok also. Would it be easy to design into the circuit? Is this something those of you on the list (potential customers) would pay for. I know this can be done outside of the speed control but many builders have a hard enough time with all of the wiring stuff as it is. This would make a nice enhancement to an already good product and make it easy for most everyone to benefit from the improvement of a variable trim sensitivity/reaction speed. Scott McDaniels North Plains, OR These opinions and ideas are my own and may not reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2000
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: Avionic Shielded Wire Grounds
"Richard V. Reynolds" wrote: > > > My Apollo avionics wiring diagrams specify shielded wires for some > functions. > > What is the rationale for some shields to be grounded only at one end > while others are grounded at both ends? > > Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A, Instrument wiring > Can't speak for Apollo, but probably it's to avoid what's commonly called 'ground loops.' Any electric circuit needs a path for the current or signal to flow from its source to the load & then back again. If the shield is connected at both ends, it's supplying the return path in addition to shielding the signal. If it's only connected on one end, it's just supplying a shield for the signal. The return path for the signal is supplied by some other wire or shield in your wiring harness. For audio & RF (& other stuff too), there are certain situations where if you have multiple return paths for a signal, it will lead to various problems with circuit operation, the most common of which is hum or buzz in the audio. By grounding only one end of a shield, you get the

November 06, 2000 - November 11, 2000

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