RV-Archive.digest.vol-js

November 27, 2000 - December 02, 2000



      
      >So far it seems I have used
      > the 2' most.  Oh, also, plan to buy the Smart Level protractor.  Any
      > thoughts would be great.
      
      
      I love my 2 foot Smart level and use it the most.  That and an average
      quality 4 foot bubble are all I have needed.
      
      Ross
      6-A Finishing
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Fuse Blocks - Hinged
Date: Nov 27, 2000
-----Original Message----- From: pcondon(at)csc.com <pcondon(at)csc.com> Date: Monday, November 27, 2000 12:55 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuse Blocks - Hinged > > ""...... I have 18 inch service loops on all my wiring and vacuum >plumbing. The >service loop to the breaker panel is about 1 1/4 inches in diameter so is >not very flexible. However, removing the panel and setting it on the seat >is a whole lot easier than crawling under the panel!""............ > >DC current in looped wire can cause magnetic fields and associated compass >distress. Have you noticed anything in this area...or is this one of those >book things where the book say this, but practical experience shows >something else ..?? > > >"Dennis Persyk" (at)matronics.com on 11/26/2000 >01:35:44 PM > A very good question. In avionics shop parlance, a "service loop" is extra wire provided so that the device can be pulled out for maintenance without disconnecting the wires. As such, it is seldom actually a full 360 degree loop. In my case the wire simply snakes around in a curving path and at most has about 90 degrees of curvature to it. It does not influence the compass by virtue of its curvature. Note however that there is a magnetic field around a single current-carrying straight wire. It is proportional to the current and drops off as 1/r where r is the distance from the wire. When you make an electromagnet you increase the current by a factor of n times when you wind n turns. Because of the current around event straight wires you should swing your compass with everything turned on. My compass works fine. Its the electric trim, gyros, VM1000 and GX60 that are giving me grief and its not due to magnetic fields! Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 15 hours Hampshire, IL C38 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Free temporary 12V Power sources
Hi, I have (5) 12V power sources available to RV builders. They are 120VAC in, 12V VDC out, Max 4 Amps. They are referred to as switching power supplies, and provide a very reliable source (I measured one at 11.9VDC). I won't tell you you what you can or can't use them for, but I used mine for powering avionics, testing circuts and electric gyros during the construction phase of my panel. Whatever you do with them, it is at your own risk. They need power cords soldered onto them. They sell for about $70.00 each, but I will give them away for free under the stipulation that they remain the property of the users of this list, and that you mail them to another builder from the list when you are finished with them. Please don't ask for one until you are really in need of it, other builders need them too. Please e-mail me directly if you're interested. First come basis. -Glenn Gordon RV-6 (fiberglass fairings & stuff) Losing building motivation as my garage gets colder and colder. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Re: Horizontal & Vertical Stabilizer Mounting
Date: Nov 27, 2000
Dave: Thanks and believe me I will be doing an Index from here on out! Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Biddle <dbiddle(at)wans.net> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 9:58 AM Subject: RV-List: Horizontal & Vertical Stabilizer Mounting > > I made an index as I watched them the second time. Too much fast forward and > rewinding without it. > Horizontal Stabilizer mounting begins on Finish Kit tape two, 28 minutes > from the start. > Vertical stabilizer follows at 35 minutes from start. > > Dave Biddle > RV6A - wiring > > > Tom & Cathy Ervin wrote: > > > I have my Sliding Canopy ready for the fitting of the Plexiglas but do > to > > > cold weather I would like to delay until better weather (Spring) to > finish > > > this step. > > > Does anyone know where on the Orindorf Tapes the Empenage Final > > > Mounting is shown? I have the 3 QB,3 Finish & 2 System Tapes. > > _ > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N188sm(at)cs.com
Date: Nov 27, 2000
Subject: Re: Left Hand Drill Bits
I can't refuse this one. I believe your tongue in another part of your body with your head. You probably have read by now that there are left handed drill bits. I do agree with and support your political views though. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2000
From: joe wiza <jwiza1(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Panel shock mounts or not
For what ever it's worth I did install shock mounts on the instrument side as per Eustace, and am very pleased with the results. RV6A 125hrs and climbing --- Eustace Bowhay wrote: > > > Hi Harry: > > The shock mounts I use are Aircraft Spruce P/N > 10-14700 found on page 336 of > their current catalog @ 3.95 each and cap nuts ( > acorn) AC832 on the front > of the panel, these are on page 88 am planning 7 or > 8 on this panel. These > mounts are the round stand- of type with the two > screws molded into the > rubber independent of each other. > > I will be taking some pictures of this panel in the > next day or two and > would be happy to send you a copy. > > Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. > -----Original Message----- > From: HCRV6(at)AOL.COM <HCRV6(at)AOL.COM> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Saturday, November 25, 2000 11:01 AM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Panel shock mounts or not > > > > > >In a message dated 11/24/00 8:10:01 PM Pacific > Standard Time, > >ebowhay(at)jetstream.net writes: > > > ><< It is important to use the correct shock mounts > >> > > > >Eustace: This may be a dumb question but what > are the correct shock > mounts > >to use? If I recall the shock and vibration stuff > correctly it is > possible > >to make the problem worse instead of better if you > choose the wrong mounts. > >Since your installation has worked successfully for > nine years I want to > use > >what you did. > > > >Harry Crosby > >Pleasanton, California > >RV-6, working on canopy installation > > > > > > > > support the > Lists > moment to > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2000
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Left Hand Drill Bits
Cecil, Ignore the ignorant who joke about the existence of left handed drill bits. These are the same people who think that EZ Outs actually work!! Broken bolts are often easily removed by drilling a pilot hole (1/3 - 1/2 the diameter of the bolt) using a cobalt drill bit. Trying to use high speed steel drill bits on a grade 7 or 8 bolt will only destroy the bit and p*ss you off. (Even on aircraft grade & grade 5 bolts they will cut faster & cleaner) You then install a left hand drill bit slightly smaller than the bolt's shank size. Running the drill in reverse, start to drill. As soon as the bit "bites" it will spin that bolt right out. Works about 2/3 of the time. Using EZ Outs is a sure recipe for disaster. EZ Outs are so hard, that once you break one of them in the hole, only a plasma arc machine will remove them. Breaking a drill bit off is almost as bad, if you can't remove it. All the major automotive tool vendors, Snap On, Mac, Vulcan, Cornwall & Matco carry them. McMaster-Carr and MSC also carry them. See Gary Van Remortal's Yeller Pages for more info on MSC & McMaster-Carr. Ask your mechanic buddies, they'll have them. Maybe one of them will loan you one? I often will take a standard drill bit which is dull or broken and resharpen it as a left hand drill bit. This is easily done using a sharpening machine or can be done by any good machinist by hand. I learned that skill years ago working aerospace machine assembly. The "old hands" laughed at you, if you couldn't sharpen drill bits by hand. It was a simple matter of saving my ego!! :-) If all else fails, simply drill the bolt completely out. Drill oversize and install a thread repair insert such as a HeliCoil or KeenSert insert. Contact me off list for more info on how to do this. The trick is to make sure that your pilot hole is fairly well centered. Charlie Kuss Broken bolts? We ain't afraid of no "stinkin" broken bolts! cecilth(at)juno.com wrote: > > Does any one know where to find left hand drill bits? I called Averys > and they don't sell them and she didn't know where to find them. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Griffin" <skydog-8(at)home.com>
Subject: Left Hand Drill Bits
Date: Nov 27, 2000
If you live in the L.A. basin you are probably within minutes of multiple tool houses that supply the aircraft,and other tooling industries with cutting tools. Look in your local yellow pages. Cleveland Drills is just one of many companies that make south-paw drills. Randy Griffin RV-8 Vancouver, Wa. #80925 N925RG (reserved) Fuse -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of cecilth(at)juno.com Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 7:40 AM Subject: RV-List: Left Hand Drill Bits Does any one know where to find left hand drill bits? I called Averys and they don't sell them and she didn't know where to find them. Cecil Hatfield Thousand Oaks California RV6A GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: sustained knife edge flight
Lucky, Well, Van publishes a manoeuvring speed for RVs - the maximum speed at which you can use full control deflections and be guaranteed that the structure will take it. This speed applies to all three axes, although it is usually the pitch axis (elevator) that is limiting. So, Van has done his homework to be sure that the vertical tail, canopy, cowling, wheel pants, etc can take the sideloads from full rudder sideslips at Va. If you plan on using full rudder at speeds greater than Va, you should be talking to Van, not us. Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 95% done) Ottawa, Canada http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html > >yes, when you roll to knife edge with the nose pointed up to attempt to >maintain altitude, you definatly put force on the windward side of the >plane. That's the whole point of cocking the nose up. Your force the air >against the side of the aeroplane - canopy very much included. It's like >sticking your hand out the car window while it's moving. Your arm is no >airfoil but air hitting the bottom of your hand/arm is enough to keep it up. > So canopy, vertical stab, cabanes, struts, whatever you got on the >windward side is going to be subject to loads during nose up knife edge. It >PARTLY explains why a Extra 300L, with it's 2 place canopy, sustains knife >edges easier than a Extra 300S with it's only single seat cockpit. Same >thing as in a slip. The side facing the direction of flight is going to get >some air force acting on it. > >I'd guess that if you pitched the nose up 20 degrees at 120 mph, rolled to >knife edge, applied full top rudder which would keep the plane at about 20 >degrees nose up (just guessing here on what that pitch angle might be), the >wind component on the side facing the oncoming air would be approximately 20 >sin of 120 mph force on the front of the plane. About equal to 41mph. >Probably not a problem but I wouldn't want to volunteer to be the first to >try. > > >----Original Message Follows---- >From: bcbraem(at)home.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: sustained knife edge flight >Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:57:09 -0500 > > >lucky-- > >I'm not sure I really understand the canopy question. There are really >no bizarre forces acting the canopy in either knife-edge or inverted >flight--unless your harness isn't tight and you're hitting the canopy >with your body. If you subscribe to the-fuselage-as-airfoil theory for >knife-edge flying, then some high-pressure exists of the "down" side of >the fuselage while "up" side of the fuselage is low-pressure area. > >But, I've never heard of the pilot of any aerobatic plane having to do >such a "reinforcement". > >You can save a lot of money by copying the parts list from The Christen >(Aviat) manual and then buying the parts separately from other >suppliers. Lycoming also puts out an Engine Operator's Manual for their >aerobatic engine series that details the changes required. Last I hear >they were still getting their parts from Aviat. > >The big concern with sustained knife-edge flight with a Lycoming AEIO- >engine or the Aviat conversion is to do them LEFT WING DOWN as that is >the side of the sump the oil pick-up line is on. > >But, take a look at the drawings and the recommendations for the >placement of the certain parts and the running of the oil lines and make >your own choice. > > > > > > I'm curious if anyone's got any direct experience in how well a RV-6 or 8 > > slider canopy holds up to sustained knife edge flight. Anyone know of a >web > > site where someone's done any mods to the canopys to increase side load > > strength? > > > > Also, $700 for an inverted oil system sounds like an opportunity to learn >to > > build a system for less. Anyone have any ideas on where I can find plans > > and parts? Anyone done this yet? > > > > TIA, > > lucky > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Which Level To Buy?
> >Hi Listers, >Wanted to upgrade my level collection before starting the wings. Currently >own a 2' and a 3' (average quality). Looked into purchasing a "machinist >grade" level but the price of $700-$1000 about knocked me to the floor. I >said to the salesperson "What? you must think this is for an airplane" So I >plan to buy a masons level which should be more accurate than those I have >been using. The question is what size to buy? So far it seems I have used >the 2' most. Oh, also, plan to buy the Smart Level protractor. Any >thoughts would be great. >Thanks, >Jack Textor >RV8, Empennage complete, 213 hrs >Des Moines, IA > Well, I found a water level to be very useful for leveling the wing spar end to end. I figure I was able to get the two ends within 1/32 inch of the same height, which is much closer than you can do with any normal level, even the much ballyhooed "Smart Level". I found a water level kit at my local hardware store that used a garden hose as the main part, with some clear tube and valves, etc that you screwed onto the ends. You have to be careful to get all the bubbles out, but the directions covered that well enough. My Smart Level is very useful too, but I think you can be just as accurate with a good quality bubble level. The Smart Level is useful, but not indispensable, for those times you want to check things at various angles. Take care, -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 95% done) Ottawa, Canada http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Emrath" <Emrath(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Free temporary 12V Power sources
Date: Nov 27, 2000
I have two electric gyros, AI and DG in need of running. If these have not all been requested by now, I'd like one and I agree to your terms of passing it on. I also agree about the cold garage workings. Going now to drill the rear side skin on my RV6A. Marty in Brentwood TN near Nashville. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn & Judi" <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 5:25 PM Subject: RV-List: Free temporary 12V Power sources > > Hi, > > I have (5) 12V power sources available to RV builders. > > They are 120VAC in, 12V VDC out, Max 4 Amps. They are referred to as > switching power supplies, and provide a very reliable source (I measured > one at 11.9VDC). I won't tell you you what you can or can't use them > for, but I used mine for powering avionics, testing circuts and electric > gyros during the construction phase of my panel. Whatever you do with > them, it is at your own risk. They need power cords soldered onto > them. They sell for about $70.00 each, but I will give them away for > free under the stipulation that they remain the property of the users of > this list, and that you mail them to another builder from the list when > you are finished with them. Please don't ask for one until you are > really in need of it, other builders need them too. > > Please e-mail me directly if you're interested. First come basis. > > -Glenn Gordon > RV-6 (fiberglass fairings & stuff) > Losing building motivation as my garage gets colder and colder. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "edperry64" <edperry64(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Rv-8 backseat
Date: Nov 27, 2000
Hi What supports the rear seat back when a passenger is sitting in it? I have assembled it. except for the Fiberglas top. It looks like all the weight will be on the rivet line that attaches the Fiberglas and the seat back. Did I miss something? If this is true has anybody had any problems with fatigue or Fiberglas separating? Thank You, Ed Perry RV8QB/180CS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
n8vd(at)earthlink.net
Subject: Sorry, 12V Power Sources ALL GONE.
Hi, The (5) regulated 12VDC power sources I have were requested in the first hour after posting. When those people are done with them, they will be distributing them again to the rv-list. -Glenn Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DThomas773(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 27, 2000
Subject: Re: Sorry, 12V Power Sources ALL GONE.
Hi Glen, I saw your post early on but since I'm only on my tail feathers I didn't think it fair to ask for one of your power sources. If I were willing to pay the price where would I find one? Dennis Thomas RV-9A Emp ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Sorry, 12V Power Sources ALL GONE.
DThomas773(at)AOL.COM wrote: > > Hi Glen, > I saw your post early on but since I'm only on my tail feathers I didn't > think it fair to ask for one of your power sources. If I were willing to pay > the price where would I find one? > Dennis Thomas > RV-9A Emp Newark Electronics sells them. But in all honesty, I don't know how precise a power supply is needed to run avionics. An alterator isn't the cleanest form of power from what I can tell. Perhaps Electric Bob can give some input on how to build a simple yet sufficient power supply for this purpose. -Glenn ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2000
From: Sam Knight <knightair(at)lv.rmci.net>
Subject: Knight Upholstery for RV
RV Builders: I have moved to Las Vegas. Please note my new telephone number and e-mail address. I have been in the upholstery business for 28 years and have been making upholstery products for kitplanes for 16 years. I have interior kits available for RV-4, RV-6, RV-6A, and RV-8. I also have cabin covers and other items. I am the supplier of upholstery products for several kitplane manufacturers. A list of other kitplane interior products available upon request. For more information, call Knight Aircraft Interiors, Inc., at (702) 207-6681 or e-mail me at knightair(at)lv.rmci.net. If you e- mail for information, please mention either "Knight" or "Upholstery" in your reference line so I can give your request my immediate attention. Photos available upon request. Sincerely, KNIGHT AIRCRAFT INTERIORS, INC. "Fly by Knight" Upholstery Products Sam Knight ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
Subject: Rv-8 backseat
Date: Nov 28, 2000
What supports the rear seat back when a passenger is sitting in it? The fiberglass upper/outer edge component and some of the top edge of the aluminum seat sides. I have assembled it. except for the Fiberglas top. It looks like all the weight will be on the rivet line that attaches the Fiberglas and the seat back. Did I miss something? If this is true has anybody had any problems with fatigue or Fiberglas separating? No. It seems reasonably strong to me, for an aircraft component. It's not as strong as my Chevy truck seats, but it works. Bryan Jones -8 765BJ ~55-hrs Pearland, Texas -----Original Message----- From: edperry64 [mailto:edperry64(at)netzero.net] Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 9:11 PM Subject: RV-List: Rv-8 backseat Hi What supports the rear seat back when a passenger is sitting in it? I have assembled it. except for the Fiberglas top. It looks like all the weight will be on the rivet line that attaches the Fiberglas and the seat back. Did I miss something? If this is true has anybody had any problems with fatigue or Fiberglas separating? Thank You, Ed Perry RV8QB/180CS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "edperry64" <edperry64(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Fw: Rv-8 backseat
Date: Nov 28, 2000
I have not seen this message posted so it here it is again. Sorry if you already received it. -----Original Message----- From: edperry64 <edperry64(at)netzero.net> Date: Monday, November 27, 2000 7:11 PM Subject: Rv-8 backseat >Hi > >What supports the rear seat back when a passenger is sitting in it? I have >assembled it. except for the Fiberglas top. It looks like all the weight >will be on the rivet line that attaches the Fiberglas and the seat back. Did >I miss something? If this is true has anybody had any problems with fatigue >or Fiberglas separating? > >Thank You, > >Ed Perry >RV8QB/180CS > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2000
From: David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Battery Terminal Choices
Listers: I have finally decided which battery to buy and am ready to track it down: Panasonic LC-X1220P OR AP 20 Ah 7.16 in X 2.99 in X 6.58 in It comes in either a Bolt and Nut or a threaded Post. My first thought would be a bolt and Nut as it could be torqued and left alone. The threaded post might have a problem with stripping. Any comments from list about this particular battery or the choice of terminal types. I have an airflow performance fuel injection and the boost pump takes up al least half of the space that the battery should go in, thus the smaller battery. Also, notice that Van's is really going through the e-business nightmare, Web site down, server hardrive lost, questionable backup. Hope all gets fixed fast. Dave Aronson RV4 N504RV N188sm(at)cs.com wrote: > > > Snap on sell them. They are great for removing screws then the heads get bad. > > Stan Mehrhoff > RV-8 ready for inspection > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2000
From: David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Battery Terminal Choices
Listers: Sorry about the last post. Forgot to erase previous message. Do not archive. DCA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: RV-4 tailwheel spring misalignment
Date: Nov 28, 2000
For those who might be interested, here's Van's (Ken really) answer: "Go ahead and taxi test it. If you notice some tracking problems you have two options: 1. Remove the tail wheel spring and try to shorten it. Note that this will require a lathe to turn the end of the spring back down to a thickness that will fit the tail wheel sleeve. 2. Deconstruct the aft end of the airplane to remove the mount and make whatever corrections are necessary to straighten the tail wheel spring assembly. More than likely it will track just fine and the only problem you will encounter is uneven tail wheel wear." -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA Network Administrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 -----Original Message----- From: Van Artsdalen, Scott [mailto:svanarts(at)unionsafe.com] Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 9:09 AM To: Rv-List (E-mail) Subject: RV-List: RV-4 tailwheel spring misalignment I've already emailed Van's about this problem but I thought I would invite the few, the proud, the exceedingly opinionated, the members of the RV-List to weigh in. My RV-4 project is up to the point where it's on it's main gear and the tail feathers are attached and functional. A fellow RV-4 builder came over this weekend to see what I was up to. It's always a good idea to have another set of eyes look things over. Well, I'm glad he came over because he spotted a major problem that I had not noticed. My tailwheel spring is canted to the left by about .5 to .75 inches at the tailwheel. It doesn't sound like much but it is noticable when you sight down the centerline of the airplane. I have some thoughts as to how to fix it but I don't want to bias anyone. So please, opnions, suggestions, answers? I'll buy lunch for the person that comes up with the simplest yet safest solution! If you're not in the California Central Valley you'll have to wait until the plane is flying... :-) -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA Network Administrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Biddle" <dbiddle(at)wans.net>
Subject: 12V Power Sources
Date: Nov 28, 2000
RadioShack.com has 12V (13.8V) power supplies on sale right now. Go to www.radioshack.com click on Test and Measurement, click on Power Supplies. On the second page are 5 to 7 amp supplies for $24 to $33. this is the link, but it is so long you may have trouble copying and pasting to your browser. http://www.radioshack.com/category.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=C TLG%5F008%5F001%5F000%5F000&Page=2 Dave Biddle RV6A wiring and more wiring ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2000
Subject: Re: Sorry, 12V Power Sources ALL GONE.
From: cecilth(at)juno.com
If I'm not mistaken, Electric Bob makes and sell them. Try him. Cecil writes: > > DThomas773(at)AOL.COM wrote: > > > > > Hi Glen, > > I saw your post early on but since I'm only on my tail feathers I > didn't > > think it fair to ask for one of your power sources. If I were > willing to pay > > the price where would I find one? > > Dennis Thomas > > RV-9A Emp > > Newark Electronics sells them. But in all honesty, I don't know how > precise a > power supply is needed to run avionics. An alterator isn't the > cleanest form of > power from what I can tell. Perhaps Electric Bob can give some > input on how to > build a simple yet sufficient power supply for this purpose. > > -Glenn > > > > > > Cecil Hatfield Thousand Oaks California RV6A GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2000
Subject: Re: Left Hand Drill Bits
From: cecilth(at)juno.com
I had tried Avery and Air Craft Spruce. Now that I see the number of people that thought I was spoofing them, I suspect the ladies at both places may have thought the same. If I had asked to talk to Bob Avery for example, I may have got a different reply. I should have dug deeper I guess. Cecil writes: > > If you live in the L.A. basin you are probably within minutes of > multiple > tool houses > that supply the aircraft,and other tooling industries with cutting > tools. > Look in your > local yellow pages. Cleveland Drills is just one of many companies > that make > south-paw > drills. > > Randy Griffin > RV-8 > Vancouver, Wa. > #80925 > N925RG (reserved) > Fuse > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of > cecilth(at)juno.com > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 7:40 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Left Hand Drill Bits > > > > Does any one know where to find left hand drill bits? I called > Averys > and they don't sell them and she didn't know where to find them. > > > Cecil Hatfield > Thousand Oaks California > RV6A > > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > > > > > > Cecil Hatfield Thousand Oaks California RV6A GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2000
Subject: Re: Left Hand Drill Bits
From: cecilth(at)juno.com
I've been sitting here laughing at all the replys I got, the funny ones anyway. You mentioned plasma arc machine. I used one of those about 40 years ago at Hughes Aircraft in Culiver City. That machine was a god send, neat and clean as I remember it. Hmmm wonder if its around at a good price now many years later. Anyway thanks to all the good replys and also to the ones who didn't know left hand drills existed too, for they made me laugh. Cecil writes: > > Cecil, > Ignore the ignorant who joke about the existence of left handed > drill > bits. These are the same people who think that EZ Outs actually > work!! > Broken bolts are often easily removed by drilling a pilot hole (1/3 > - 1/2 > the diameter of the bolt) using a cobalt drill bit. Trying to use > high > speed steel drill bits on a grade 7 or 8 bolt will only destroy the > bit > and p*ss you off. (Even on aircraft grade & grade 5 bolts they will > cut > faster & cleaner) You then install a left hand drill bit slightly > smaller > than the bolt's shank size. Running the drill in reverse, start to > drill. > As soon as the bit "bites" it will spin that bolt right out. Works > about > 2/3 of the time. Using EZ Outs is a sure recipe for disaster. EZ > Outs are > so hard, that once you break one of them in the hole, only a plasma > arc > machine will remove them. Breaking a drill bit off is almost as bad, > if > you can't remove it. > All the major automotive tool vendors, Snap On, Mac, Vulcan, > Cornwall & > Matco carry them. McMaster-Carr and MSC also carry them. See Gary > Van > Remortal's Yeller Pages for more info on MSC & McMaster-Carr. Ask > your > mechanic buddies, they'll have them. Maybe one of them will loan you > one? > I often will take a standard drill bit which is dull or broken and > resharpen it as a left hand drill bit. This is easily done using a > sharpening machine or can be done by any good machinist by hand. I > learned > that skill years ago working aerospace machine assembly. The "old > hands" > laughed at you, if you couldn't sharpen drill bits by hand. It was a > simple matter of saving my ego!! :-) > If all else fails, simply drill the bolt completely out. Drill > oversize > and install a thread repair insert such as a HeliCoil or KeenSert > insert. > Contact me off list for more info on how to do this. The trick is to > make > sure that your pilot hole is fairly well centered. > Charlie Kuss > Broken bolts? We ain't afraid of no "stinkin" broken bolts! > > cecilth(at)juno.com wrote: > > > > > Does any one know where to find left hand drill bits? I called > Averys > > and they don't sell them and she didn't know where to find them. > > > > > > > > Cecil Hatfield Thousand Oaks California RV6A GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RotaVR(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 28, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-4 tailwheel spring misalignment
In a message dated 11/27/00 11:11:02 AM Central Standard Time, svanarts(at)unionsafe.com writes: > >> My tailwheel spring is canted to the left by about .5 to .75 inches at the > tailwheel. << > > I've had a similar situation on my RV-4 since 1989, however not as marked > degree of cant. The only noticeable effect has been uneven wear on the > tailwheel. At annual I simply reverse the tailwheel and this pretty much > evens the wear out. No ground handling quirks. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Terminal Choices
Date: Nov 28, 2000
Threaded posts are the "norm" for aircraft batteries. Curious about why you settled on that particular battery, over, say, the Odyssey. Is that the same technology (absorbed electrolyte) or NI-CAD or what? Details? Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Aronson" <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 7:25 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Battery Terminal Choices > > Listers: > I have finally decided which battery to buy and am ready to track it > down: > Panasonic LC-X1220P OR AP > 20 Ah > 7.16 in X 2.99 in X 6.58 in > > It comes in either a Bolt and Nut or a threaded Post. My first thought > would be a bolt and Nut as it could be torqued and left alone. The > threaded post might have a problem with stripping. Any comments from > list about this particular battery or the choice of terminal types. > > I have an airflow performance fuel injection and the boost pump takes up > al least half of the space that the battery should go in, thus the > smaller battery. Also, notice that Van's is really going through the > e-business nightmare, Web site down, server hardrive lost, questionable > backup. Hope all gets fixed fast. > > Dave Aronson > RV4 N504RV > > N188sm(at)cs.com wrote: > > > > > > Snap on sell them. They are great for removing screws then the heads get bad. > > > > Stan Mehrhoff > > RV-8 ready for inspection > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2000
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: Time is short........
If you are reading this post and you still haven't made your contribution to the RV-List Fundraiser I have one question for you.......WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? In the early days of this Fundraiser someone requested that these pleas be made only a couple of times a week. I tried that approach to see if it would help. Well I have news for you, It doesn't! We have more people on this list than ever who have not made any contribution. If you are thinking that if you don't post anything so you don't need to contribute, please think again. Just reading the list is entertainment enough for you to make a contribution. If you use the archives you really need to consider making that contribution. You are using a valuable resource and not paying your fair share. I'm sure you don't want to be doing that. Now please, take the time and use one the methods described below to make your contribution, you will feel better for it. Al ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JusCash(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 28, 2000
Subject: Re: Time is short........
Beware!!!!!!!! I sent my contribution in yesterday. Didn't look at the check boxes close enough. Checked the Pitts list instead of the RV list as they are adjacent to each other. Cash Copeland QB #60075 RV6 N46FC (Reserved) Oakland, Ca In a message dated 11/28/00 10:37:41 AM Pacific Standard Time, prober(at)iwaynet.net writes: << If you are reading this post and you still haven't made your contribution to the RV-List Fundraiser I have one question for you.......WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? In the early days of this Fundraiser someone requested that these pleas be made only a couple of times a week. I tried that approach to see if it would help. Well I have news for you, It doesn't! We have more people on this list than ever who have not made any contribution. If you are thinking that if you don't post anything so you don't need to contribute, please think again. Just reading the list is entertainment enough for you to make a contribution. If you use the archives you really need to consider making that contribution. You are using a valuable resource and not paying your fair share. I'm sure you don't want to be doing that. Now please, take the time and use one the methods described below to make your contribution, you will feel better for it. Al ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2000
From: Gary Rush <Gary.Rush(at)west.sun.com>
Subject: 0360 Engine
Any comments on the best source for a certified O360 engine for my RV8. I know Vans has some good prices but what about remanufactured or rebuilt? Such as Mattituck engines? Thanks, Gary Rush RV8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Time is short........
Date: Nov 28, 2000
Oh for Gods sake. You live in West Palm don't you? Was it a butterfly ballot or something? I WANT A RECOUNT! Just kidding Elephant in Orlando > > Beware!!!!!!!! > I sent my contribution in yesterday. Didn't look at the check boxes close > enough. Checked the Pitts list instead of the RV list as they are adjacent > to each other. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <pbesing(at)rmi.net>
Subject: Re: 0360 Engine
Date: Nov 28, 2000
Bart Lalonde (Aero Sport Power) Also has a certified shop for remans or overhauls...he's in the yeller pages... Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/ Finish Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Rush" <Gary.Rush(at)west.sun.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 12:30 PM Subject: RV-List: 0360 Engine > > Any comments on the best source for a certified O360 engine for my RV8. I know > Vans has some good prices but what about remanufactured or rebuilt? Such as > Mattituck engines? > > Thanks, > Gary Rush > RV8 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Nov 28, 2000
"Re: RV-List: Time is short........" (Nov 28, 12:56pm)
Subject: Re: Time is short........
Don't worry. The "which lists are you on" check boxes are just for statistics. They're for me to get an idea of which Lists are contributing. As Al pointed out, time is running out to make it on the official "A List" due to be published on December 1st! Won't you take a moment to make your Contribution today to support all of these valuable services? SSL Secure Web: http://www.matronics.com/contributoin USMail: Matronics c/o Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551 Thanks to everyone that has made a contribution so far! Matt >-------------- > >Beware!!!!!!!! >I sent my contribution in yesterday. Didn't look at the check boxes close >enough. Checked the Pitts list instead of the RV list as they are adjacent >to each other. > >Cash Copeland >QB #60075 >RV6 N46FC (Reserved) >Oakland, Ca > > >In a message dated 11/28/00 10:37:41 AM Pacific Standard Time, >prober(at)iwaynet.net writes: > ><< > > If you are reading this post and you still haven't made your contribution > to the RV-List Fundraiser I have one question for you.......WHAT ARE YOU > WAITING FOR? > > In the early days of this Fundraiser someone requested that these pleas be > made only a couple of times a week. I tried that approach to see if it > would help. Well I have news for you, It doesn't! We have more people on > this list than ever who have not made any contribution. If you are thinking > that if you don't post anything so you don't need to contribute, please > think again. Just reading the list is entertainment enough for you to make > a contribution. If you use the archives you really need to consider making > that contribution. You are using a valuable resource and not paying your > fair share. I'm sure you don't want to be doing that. > > Now please, take the time and use one the methods described below to make > your contribution, you will feel better for it. Al > >-------------- -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft Great minds discuss ideas, Average minds discuss events, Small minds discuss people... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 0360 Engine
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Nov 28, 2000
11/28/2000 05:05:02 PM Usually there is a core value needed to be added to any quotes from any named "certified" overhauler. By the time you add the core charge to the overhaul charge(with shipping) and accessories you are darn close( or over ) Vans OEM price for his 0-360. Unless you have access to below market cores or running engines and do a partial overhaul,...... again you are hard pressed to get a engine that is "certified" for much less. There are many GOOD overhaulers that don't offer "certified" overhauls that will save you thousands. These overhaulers usually take off the engine data plate and leave it in the log book for you do with (whatever). Lots of guys go this route. Check the yeller pages, there are a handfull of these engine builders there....good luck..... Gary Rush (at)matronics.com on 11/28/2000 02:30:53 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: RV-List: 0360 Engine Any comments on the best source for a certified O360 engine for my RV8. I know Vans has some good prices but what about remanufactured or rebuilt? Such as Mattituck engines? Thanks, Gary Rush RV8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Aero7ac(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 28, 2000
Subject: Converting a 6A to a 6
Folks, I have a friend who is not on the list so I am asking the following questions on his behalf. I will forward any responses on to him. Question #1 - What parts are necessary to convert a 6A to a 6? The obvious parts are the engine mount, gear legs, tailwheel assembly and mount, and the rear bulkhead but I am sure there are more. Are there any gueses as to the cost of these parts? (hey...that was two qestions!) Question #2 - Has anyone out there done this and, if so, how hard/easy was it? I imagine getting that rear bulkhead in place is no walk in the park. Question #3 - I searched the archives but came up with nothing but I thought I read a post about a gentleman who had all of the parts necessary to do such a conversion. Does anyone know who this was? Thanks in advance for any insight to any of my 3 questions. PS. If you want to reply to me please use the following e-mail address (Nowakod(at)us.ibm.com) Don Nowakowski RV-6 FWF and Panel, N-513DN reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: 0360 Engine
> >Any comments on the best source for a certified O360 engine for my >RV8. I know >Vans has some good prices but what about remanufactured or rebuilt? Such as >Mattituck engines? > >Thanks, >Gary Rush >RV8 Well, many listers have been very happy with Bart Lalonde. He sells engines for experimentals thru AeroSport Power. I think he could sell you a certified engine too, if you wanted to pay the extra cash, as I believe he also owns a shop that overhauls engines for type certified aircraft. I suspect he uses the same people, equipment and attention to detail for both operations, but he could tell you for sure. Contact Bart at (250) 376-2955. Take care, -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 95% done) Ottawa, Canada http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2000
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: Sorry, 12V Power Sources ALL GONE.
I think Electric Bob is gone. After the beating he took from the list over "security" I wouldn't blame him. Dave Glenn & Judi wrote: > > DThomas773(at)AOL.COM wrote: > > > > > Hi Glen, > > I saw your post early on but since I'm only on my tail feathers I didn't > > think it fair to ask for one of your power sources. If I were willing to pay > > the price where would I find one? > > Dennis Thomas > > RV-9A Emp > > Newark Electronics sells them. But in all honesty, I don't know how precise a > power supply is needed to run avionics. An alterator isn't the cleanest form of > power from what I can tell. Perhaps Electric Bob can give some input on how to > build a simple yet sufficient power supply for this purpose. > > -Glenn > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2000
Subject: Re: Van's panel dimmer
From: Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com>
Subject: RV-List: Van's panel dimmer problem solved From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com 11/25/2000 09:09:37 PM All, A few weeks back I wrote about a problem that I had with the Van's stock panel dimmer ( ES DIMMER, LAMP 1.5A ). I installed per the directions only to find that when I keyed my com transmitter all the lights in the cockpit that were hooked up to the dimmer would go out. Clearly RF was getting into my little dimmer. A little research and some helpful direction from the list and I was able to solve the problem. My dimmer circuit board actually had the layout for adding two capacitors but the holes were empty. A schematic was actually available on page 222 of "18 Years of the RV ator". Unfortunately the values suggested in this drawing are wrong. The capacitor value needed for the one that's attached to the LM317 actually needs to be 0.001 micro farad at 25 volts and not 0.1 as suggested. I will put the details and pictures on my site tomorrow. The fix works like a champ. The lights don't even flicker now. - Jim Andrews RV-8A ( cowling and more... ) O-360 A1A Sensenich 85 N89JA reserved - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Just to let everyone on the list know. The dimmer has never come with the capacitors installed (even though there is a place for them on the ckt. board. They usually are not needed (all of the airplanes at Vans are flying with this circuit with out the caps and there is know ill effects). If your particular installation needs them then they can be added. Unfortunately this wasn't in the documentation provided with the unit but I believe that is being corrected. Scott McDaniels North Plains, OR These opinions and ideas are my own and may not reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer. GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-4 tailwheel spring misalignment
From: Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com>
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> Subject: RV-List: RV-4 tailwheel spring misalignment I've already emailed Van's about this problem but I thought I would invite the few, the proud, the exceedingly opinionated, the members of the RV-List to weigh in. My RV-4 project is up to the point where it's on it's main gear and the tail feathers are attached and functional. A fellow RV-4 builder came over this weekend to see what I was up to. It's always a good idea to have another set of eyes look things over. Well, I'm glad he came over because he spotted a major problem that I had not noticed. My tailwheel spring is canted to the left by about .5 to .75 inches at the tailwheel. It doesn't sound like much but it is noticable when you sight down the centerline of the airplane. I have some thoughts as to how to fix it but I don't want to bias anyone. So please, opnions, suggestions, answers? I'll buy lunch for the person that comes up with the simplest yet safest solution! If you're not in the California Central Valley you'll have to wait until the plane is flying... :-) -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA Network Administrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Assuming you don't already have one... I would suggest that you install the retrofit full swivel tail wheel assy. This requires cutting off the bent portion of the leg, machining the end to except the new assy., and then drilling the new assy to the leg. This would allow orientating the clocking of the new one to what ever you want. Scott McDaniels North Plains, OR These opinions and ideas are my own and may not reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer. GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2000
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Rv-8 backseat
Mr Condon, Do you have any photos of the setup you describe? Charlie Kuss pcondon(at)csc.com wrote: > > Vans has a "AD" or "service bulletin" on the RV-4 rear seat. It is simply a > gusset support on the main longron ( L & R) that supports the rear seat > back. I added the same fix to the RV-8 fuse. I am building. On my -4, I > have a small cable slightly drooping from the gussets on the left and > right. If the seat back were to fail the occupant and seat back get > stopped by the safety cable. Its a small diameter cable and hardly > noticable unless you are in the baggage compartment yourself.......simple, > quick & inexpensive fix. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2000
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Fairing the Tail Tie-Down Ring on RV's]
Listers, For those of you who were interested in seeing John Fasching's tie down, tail ring fairing, go to the SE Florida RV Builders web site at: http://www.eGroups.com/files/SEFlaRVbuilders/Aerodynamic+Modifications/John+Fasching%27s+tail+tie+down+fairing.jpg Charlie Kuss RV-8A endless inventorying of fuselage parts Boca Raton, Fl. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: 0360 Engine
Date: Nov 28, 2000
My decision to get a new engine from Van was based on much experience with people's grief with "rebuilt" auto engines. 'Rebuilt' means whatever its seller wants it to mean. In the worst case I saw the engine was simply patched up from a problem and repainted! The best of rebuilts come from guys like Victor Aviation here in Palo Alto, CA (okay, I haven't the $1,000,000 for a fixer upper in Palo Alto but live in nearby Santa Clara). Victors prices are substantial but the quality is superior to factory new. He does, for Palo Alto class customers I suppose, rebuild factory new engines! Factory new engines are sorta a known quantity while rebuilds may be a pig in a poke. Unless it is top brand, you may be always wondering if it will see you thru to the next airport. Hal Kempthorne RV6a N7HK Waiting for FAA inspection! ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Rush <Gary.Rush(at)west.sun.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 11:30 AM Subject: RV-List: 0360 Engine > > Any comments on the best source for a certified O360 engine for my RV8. I know > Vans has some good prices but what about remanufactured or rebuilt? Such as > Mattituck engines? > > Thanks, > Gary Rush > RV8 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2000
From: "jah" <jah(at)abraxis.com>
Subject: Wrong size bushings on O-320 crank
Listers, I have a problem with the bushings on the crank flange of my O-320. Van's sells a 2.25" prop extension which I have already purchased for the O-320 that accepts 7/16" prop bolts. However, my O-320 has 3/8" bushings. My wood prop is also drilled for 7/16" bolts. Can I simply replace the 3/8" busings with 7/16" bushings? If this is possible/safe how do I go about doing this? Thanks, Jeff Hawkins Atlanta, Georgia RV-8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2000
From: Bill Ervin <bjervin(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Converting a 6A to a 6
This is new!! 6A to a 6? I was thinking about switching to a 6A, but I've yet to start the Fus. I would think Vans would have a parts list for that, they have one for 6 to 6A. I would bet it would be a MAJOR undertaking if its already built. I'd check with Van's Bill Spokane RV-6 Fuselage (I can hear it calling from the shipping crate) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: clayfly(at)libertybay.com
Subject: Re: Van's panel dimmer
Date: Nov 28, 2000
Scott, Just did my first night flying and had the same problem with Van's dimmer --- push the XMIT button and the lights go out. When you update your web page with the solution, please post the www address. I'd like to see the solution. Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X, 50+ hours Indiana > ** Original Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's panel dimmer > ** Original Sender: Scott R McDaniels > ** Original Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 18:53:47 -0800 > ** Original Message follows... > > > From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com > 11/25/2000 09:09:37 PM > > > All, > > A few weeks back I wrote about a problem that I had with the Van's stock > panel dimmer ( ES DIMMER, LAMP 1.5A ). I installed per the directions > only > to find that when I keyed my com transmitter all the lights in the > cockpit > that were hooked up to the dimmer would go out. Clearly RF was getting > into my little dimmer. A little research and some helpful direction from > the list and I was able to solve the problem. > > My dimmer circuit board actually had the layout for adding two capacitors > but the holes were empty. A schematic was actually available on page 222 > of "18 Years of the RV ator". Unfortunately the values suggested in this > drawing are wrong. The capacitor value needed for the one that's > attached > to the LM317 actually needs to be 0.001 micro farad at 25 volts and not > 0.1 > as suggested. > > I will put the details and pictures on my site tomorrow. The fix works > like a champ. The lights don't even flicker now. > > - Jim Andrews > RV-8A ( cowling and more... ) > O-360 A1A Sensenich 85 > N89JA reserved > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > Just to let everyone on the list know. > The dimmer has never come with the capacitors installed (even though > there is a place for them on the ckt. board. > They usually are not needed (all of the airplanes at Vans are flying with > this circuit with out the caps and there is know ill effects). > If your particular installation needs them then they can be added. > > Unfortunately this wasn't in the documentation provided with the unit but > I believe that is being corrected. > > > Scott McDaniels > North Plains, OR > These opinions and ideas are my own and may not > reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer. > > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > > > > > >** --------- End Original Message ----------- ** > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Emrath" <Emrath(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Converting a 6A to a 6
Date: Nov 28, 2000
If the plane it built already, converting that tail is hard but you also will have to remount the engine. I looked into adding the needed parts to my tail when I constructed the Fuselage for my RV6A so that it could be converted. Not much is needed. One could, I suppose, purchase an engine mount with both the fittings for the nose gear for the RV6A and the main gear for the RV6. Built originally as an RV6A and conversion later would be easy was my thought. Going the other way is more difficult as the gear mounts on the wing for the RV6A would be tricky to add later. In the end, I decided once this is flying I'm not going to want to convert it. Builders I have talked with say once you fly you won't want to work on it. Marty in Brentwood, TN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Ervin" <bjervin(at)home.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 10:09 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Converting a 6A to a 6 > > This is new!! 6A to a 6? I was thinking about switching to a 6A, but > I've yet to start the Fus. I would think Vans would have a parts list > for that, they have one for 6 to 6A. I would bet it would be a MAJOR > undertaking if its already built. I'd check with Van's > > Bill > Spokane > RV-6 Fuselage (I can hear it calling from the shipping crate) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV8DRIVER(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Subject: Re: Which Level To Buy?
As far as accurate machinist's levels are concerned, they are available in 8" and 12" sizes for around $100. No, they are not made in the US but in Poland, and the quality is fine. They are cast iron and very heavy. They are so sensitive that they have plastic grip inserts so the heat from your fingers doesn't distort the level. The distance between marks on the bubble represents 0.0005" in 10". I have used mine extensively in setting up the fuselage jig and elsewhere, setting it on an appropriately sized section of rectangular aluminum screen enclosure tubing. (Available at Lowe's). If dropped and knocked out of level, they are adjustable back to tolerance (ask me how I know). A local machine tool supplier should have a source, or MSC will have them. Andy Johnson, Boca Raton, FL, drilling fuse skins, in between honeydo projects. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Swivel -Tail Wheel -OOPS!
Date: Nov 28, 2000
Listers- Those of you that have full swivel tailwheels sure could help me on this one. I was installing the full swivel assembly on my RV-6 and between my poor eyes and slow hands I managed to lose part of the locking pin assembly. I have the main locking pin and a spring that fit together and assemble into the square hole at the top of the spindle. When I install the spring into the hole and then the square locking pin the whole assembly will go together but it doesn't have the breakout tension that should be there. I 'think' that there should be another spacer that goes in the square spindle hole but I cannot see where it may have flown across my shop. Can anyone clue me in on the assembly of this mechanism, and, if there is a spacer, what is the size of it? Thanks so much for your help. Douglas G. Murray RV-6 - fumbling with the little details !! Southern Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Burch" <rv6man(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Wrong size bushings on O-320 crank
Date: Nov 28, 2000
> Can I simply replace the 3/8" busings with 7/16" bushings? No problem, it is a relatively simple swap. The problem is getting the parts. There are three part#s required. As I recall there was one of them I had to get used. Not cheap either. I believe I spent about 100.00 for all.Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Burch" <rv6man(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Swivel -Tail Wheel -OOPS!
Date: Nov 28, 2000
No spacer. I think that you have not assembled the complete wheel ass. the break out forces arenot determined by the spring. put the belcrank on top and try it.Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Burch" <rv6man(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Converting a 6A to a 6
Date: Nov 28, 2000
I dont think it would be a big deal. The motor mount is easy. The tricky part would be the weldment for tail spring. I think you would need to unrivet the rear bulkhead. Not a huge job. I'd do it.Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2000
From: John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
Subject: Contributions to the RV List
Just think of the dollars you contribute like votes...every one counts. Don't leave Matt short a few votes (dollars) for running the Lists just because you didn't show up at the ballot box. And unlike the Presidential election, you can submit as many votes as you want!!! What a deal! And...on a more ominous note...if someone were running the Lists as a commercial venture to really make some bucks, instead of a labor of love, how much do you think they'd be charging? Or how much advertising to you think you'd be seeing? In either/both cases, a LOT. I don't think we want that. Semper Fi John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2000
From: Arthur Glaser <airplane(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Wrong size bushings on O-320 crank
The old ones will come out with the careful use of a hammer and you can pull the new ones in using a bolt for a puller with sockets or a sleeve for a spacer. I had this problem and Bart LaLonde had me use this procedure. jah wrote: > > Listers, > > I have a problem with the bushings on the crank flange of my O-320. > > Van's sells a 2.25" prop extension which I have already purchased for the O-320 that accepts 7/16" prop bolts. However, my O-320 has > 3/8" bushings. My wood prop is also drilled for 7/16" bolts. > Can I simply replace the 3/8" busings with 7/16" bushings? > > If this is possible/safe how do I go about doing this? > > Thanks, > Jeff Hawkins > Atlanta, Georgia > RV-8 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2000
From: Fred Kunkel <rvator(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Left Hand Drill Bits
Hi Cecil, Contact me off-line & let me know what sizes you're looking for. You also need to let me know if you're looking for a left hand cut & a right hand flute, etc. Blue Skies! cecilth(at)juno.com wrote: > > Does any one know where to find left hand drill bits? I called Averys > and they don't sell them and she didn't know where to find them. > > Cecil Hatfield > Thousand Oaks California > RV6A > > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2000
From: Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Horizontal Cowl Pins
Hi, I have come up with a pretty slick way of securing the horizontal cowl pins. I would post them on my server, but the server is down. E-mail me directly if you're interested, and I will be happy to send you the pics. Please make sure you take the "rv-list" out of the subject so that it will get past my mail filters. -Glenn Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: ADF in an RV panel
Date: Nov 29, 2000
During the "too cold to work in the garage" period's I've been working on the designs for my instrument panel. I will be including VOR/GS/LOC as well as approach certified GPS. That should be enough to get me through the IMC that I might get stuck in. I am planning on getting my Instrument Rating in my RV after it's flying if that matters. Are any of you with flying and/or building RV's that are going to be using ADF's? Next, are any of you flying non-RV's and using ADF's? During a discussion last night with some other builders - the topic of ADF's came up. Here are some of the comments. 1. They're not fixing 'em when they break - they're just shutting 'em down. 2. It's nothing more than an AM radio that's unreliable for approaches - I wouldn't depend on one. 3. In a few years they'll all be gone anyway - use the money for gas. One of the magazines just published a real nice article on ADF approaches - how easy they really are. I don't recall if they addressed how much longer ADF transmitters (NDB's I think!) will remain around. Maybe Das Fed can chime in here! I'm kinda ahead of myself on this from two perspectives...I'm not instrument rated and there's plenty of time before I need to commit to what's gonna be staring me in the face. I'll listen to all opinions offered since there isn't a book titled "ADF's For Dummies"! Thanks, Ralph Capen ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rv-8 backseat
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Nov 29, 2000
11/29/2000 09:03:18 AM No digital photos, but Vans site has the servvice bulletin on the RV-4 on their web site. I simply duplicated the mod for my RV-8. I then took some small diameter cable and attached or "connected" these two gussets. The cable slightly drooped while it connected the two gussets. I'll bet once you see the service buletin fix vans has the cable mod will become clear. Charlie Kuss (at)matronics.com on 11/28/2000 09:08:29 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: Re: RV-List: Rv-8 backseat Mr Condon, Do you have any photos of the setup you describe? Charlie Kuss pcondon(at)csc.com wrote: > > Vans has a "AD" or "service bulletin" on the RV-4 rear seat. It is simply a > gusset support on the main longron ( L & R) that supports the rear seat > back. I added the same fix to the RV-8 fuse. I am building. On my -4, I > have a small cable slightly drooping from the gussets on the left and > right. If the seat back were to fail the occupant and seat back get > stopped by the safety cable. Its a small diameter cable and hardly > noticable unless you are in the baggage compartment yourself.......simple, > quick & inexpensive fix. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Converting a 6A to a 6
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Terry - IMHO converting to a tail wheel on a finished fuselage WOULD be a big deal. On the RV6A there are only onepiece bulkheads at the last two bulkhead locations in the fuselage. On the RV-6 there are two bulkheads back to back at both locations. They serve both as an anchor for the HS straps and the forward part of the tail wheel weldament. The last bulkhead is also doubled up to anchor the rear of the weldament. I suppose that a VERY dertermined builder could remove the aft deck and squeeze these bulkheads into location but the weldament would present a major exersise in aerobics as the builder attempts to drill the attaching bolt holes. Remember that the rudder rear spar also attaches to the rear bulkheads and the tailwheel weldament. If I were to pick the the worst bolts to work with on the entire project, it would be these three. The forward end of the conversion would be a very simple job as the mount should slip into place without major effort, and, as a bonus there is more space to work with as the nose gear weldaments are not there. The biggest change up front would be to change the brake lines so they come through the firewall. Anyway that's my thoughts on that. I think that the conversion is possible but the builder would severely test his/her patience on the tail end of the project. Douglas G. Murray Southern Alberta ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Burch" <rv6man(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 8:05 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Converting a 6A to a 6 > > I dont think it would be a big deal. The motor mount is easy. > The tricky part would be the weldment for tail spring. I think you > would need to unrivet the rear bulkhead. Not a huge job. I'd do it.Terry > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2000
From: "jah" <jah(at)abraxis.com>
Subject: RV-8 Vent Location
I sent the following email to Van's. I'm posting the question and answer here for others and so that the archives will have it too. QUESTION: I would like to know if its ok to drill a hole in the aft side of the left landing gear box ( F-802 ) for the plastic fresh air vent provided in the kit? I'm thinking that this might be ok if I fabricated a doubler (.063) that would help support the vent. I could then route the scat from the NASA vent through the F-802C lighting holes to the vent in the aft side of the landing gear box. ANSWER: Jeff, I received your e-mail question asking if it is okay to cut a hole in your F-802B-L for mounting the air vent outlet; here are my thoughts: We drop tested the RV-8 fuselage and landing gear with only the holes shown in the plans. The structure passed the drop test. We did not drop test with the hole you described in your message. We do not know if the structure with the hole would pass the drop test. We are not planning to repeat the drop test to determine if the structure would pass the drop test with the hole you described in your message. Basically, you are on your own...I know of an RV-8 that was built with the hole in the landing gear box, and it was subsequently crash landed into a soft field. The landing gear legs were almost completely flattened-out due to the impact, but the fuselage structure was un-damaged. The aircraft has been repaired and is back flying again. Does this mean that the airplane with a hole in F- 802B-L would pass an FAR 23 drop test? We don't know. Hope this helps, Ken Krueger Van's Aircraft Engineering ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KAKlewin(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Subject: Re: ADF in an RV panel
Ralph, I wouldn't worry about ADF's at all, especially since your going to use a GPS. Save the panel space for a CD player or something. I currently fly for a Regional Airline in Houston and guess what we did last year.....we threw away all of our approach plates with ADF approaches...quit training aircrews on ADF approaches...and took them out of our operations specifications. We fly all over the US, Canada, and Mexico and even then all I use the ADF for in the RJ is for additional situational awareness while flying an approach that has a LOM. The only time I would consider adding an ADF is if you planned on flying in an area, or country, that still used ADF as a primary approach and hadn't yet established GPS overlays. Additionally, when taking your Instrument checkride you can do the required non-precision approaches with only a VOR (LOC and VOR approaches). As I remember an ADF doesent even need to be in the aircraft....but as always check the FAA Inst Standards Book as I still think ADF is still a knowledge item for the oral..etc.. Kurt, OKC, OK RV6A/Finishing Kit ATP/CFII/EMB120/ERJ145 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net>
Subject: Re: ADF in an RV panel
Date: Nov 29, 2000
I'm not an IFR expert only a lowly IFR rated pilot. Just about all the NDB approaches are being replaced by GPS overlays. Unless there are some specific NDB approaches that you plan on flying, I think you'd be better served by leaving out the ADF, freeing up the panel space and saving yourself one extra antenna installation. I will certainly not be putting one in my IFR -6 If you like listening to AM radio in flight then it might be worthwhile Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res) Plainfield, IL Skinning the Wings http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page > > > Are any of you with flying and/or building RV's that are going to be using > ADF's? > > Next, are any of you flying non-RV's and using ADF's? > > During a discussion last night with some other builders - the topic of ADF's > came up. Here are some of the comments. > > 1. They're not fixing 'em when they break - they're just shutting 'em down. > 2. It's nothing more than an AM radio that's unreliable for approaches - I > wouldn't depend on one. > 3. In a few years they'll all be gone anyway - use the money for gas. > > One of the magazines just published a real nice article on ADF approaches - > how easy they really are. I don't recall if they addressed how much longer > ADF transmitters (NDB's I think!) will remain around. > > Maybe Das Fed can chime in here! > > I'm kinda ahead of myself on this from two perspectives...I'm not instrument > rated and there's plenty of time before I need to commit to what's gonna be > staring me in the face. I'll listen to all opinions offered since there > isn't a book titled > "ADF's For Dummies"! > > Thanks, > Ralph Capen > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pat_hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: ADF in an RV panel
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Ralph: There are two navaids that I think are destined for extinction, ADFs and DMEs. About the only time you would need an ADF today would be if you received a clearance such as, "Cleared for the ILS 9L approach, proceed direct from your present position to the outer marker." In this case you might have to execute the procedure turn, depending on the approach procedure. However, 99% of the time you'll get a vector to intercept the final approach course in which case you wouldn't need the ADF, just the marker beacon receiver. If you are planning an IFR certified GPS, I wouldn't worry about ADF or DME. Pat Hatch RV-4, N17PH @ VRB, 700 hours TT O-320, Hartzell C/S RV-6, Fuselage O-360, Hartzell C/S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 8:58 AM Subject: RV-List: ADF in an RV panel > > During the "too cold to work in the garage" period's I've been working on > the designs for my instrument panel. I will be including VOR/GS/LOC as well > as approach certified GPS. That should be enough to get me through the IMC > that I might get stuck in. I am planning on getting my Instrument Rating > in my RV after it's flying if that matters. > > Are any of you with flying and/or building RV's that are going to be using > ADF's? > > Next, are any of you flying non-RV's and using ADF's? > > During a discussion last night with some other builders - the topic of ADF's > came up. Here are some of the comments. > > 1. They're not fixing 'em when they break - they're just shutting 'em down. > 2. It's nothing more than an AM radio that's unreliable for approaches - I > wouldn't depend on one. > 3. In a few years they'll all be gone anyway - use the money for gas. > > One of the magazines just published a real nice article on ADF approaches - > how easy they really are. I don't recall if they addressed how much longer > ADF transmitters (NDB's I think!) will remain around. > > Maybe Das Fed can chime in here! > > I'm kinda ahead of myself on this from two perspectives...I'm not instrument > rated and there's plenty of time before I need to commit to what's gonna be > staring me in the face. I'll listen to all opinions offered since there > isn't a book titled > "ADF's For Dummies"! > > Thanks, > Ralph Capen > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: ADF in an RV panel
Date: Nov 29, 2000
From: Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
> > >During the "too cold to work in the garage" period's I've been working on >the designs for my instrument panel. I will be including VOR/GS/LOC as well >as approach certified GPS. That should be enough to get me through the IMC >that I might get stuck in. I am planning on getting my Instrument Rating >in my RV after it's flying if that matters. > >Are any of you with flying and/or building RV's that are going to be using >ADF's? > If you have approach certified GPS and the other equipment you mention I can think of only two possible reasons to have a space consuming, expensive, ADF (How are you going to fit all that stuff?). For additional redundancy and to be able to listen to the ballgame on AM radio. Pretty slim reasons for such an investment. It used to be that many smaller airports only had an NDB approach. Those can normally be flown with an approach certified GPS now, and although NDB approaches really aren't that hard, they are much easier with a GPS. ADF can also help some with orientation during approaches and guide you to the outer marker many places, but again, GPS does all that better. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
Subject: RV fiberglass seat back...throw away and make a metal one
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Listers, I tossed out the fiberglass seat back that Van's provided in my 4 kit. It fit about as well as a double AA bra on Dolly Parton and I was unconvinced that it was strong enough for the task. I made an all aluminum part in just a couple hours. The aluminum part's top flange had 2 camlocs that latched the baggage compartment closed and made it quite impossible for that rear seat to collapse into the baggage compartment regardless of how much "Bubba" is in the back seat. The new part was made from strips of aluminum, a crescent shaped strip, some scrap angle, and some sheet aluminum. Sounds complicated but isn't. Use the fiberglass part as a guide, get your snips, notch some angles to make the curve (just like you do on the instrument panel), and soon you'll have a PERFECTLY fitting part that is very strong. Have fun, Vince in Indiana HRII under construction ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2000
From: Gary Rush <Gary.Rush(at)west.sun.com>
Subject: IFR questions
With the discussion about IFR flying in RVs, I have a question. Isn't a heated Pitot tube required in a plane certified for IFR flying? And if this is true, does anyone have any experience with install a heated Pitot tube in an RV8? Thanks, Gary Rush Carlsbad, CA RV8 Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WPAerial(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Subject: Re: 0360 Engine
Gary, I just received yesterday my 0-320. From; Pro Aero Engines Inc. 2965 Airport Rd. Kamloops BC. V2B 7W8 I had heard they had a good reputation and saved some money. Shipping to Oregon was $165. plus $75. for custom paper work. They might have changed their name. When I ordered I had called them Aero Power Sports. Do no archive. Jerry Wilken RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pat_hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: IFR questions
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Gary: While not technically required by the regulations, a heated pitot tube is certainly a good idea--depending on where you'll be doing your flying. If you're never going to leave Florida, maybe you wouldn't need it. In my case, I didn't put it in my RV-4 because although it is certified IFR, I just didn't plan on doing any heavy IFR flying. However, in my RV-6 I'm setting it up for solid IFR and have a heated pitot tube, but even so, I obviously won't be able to fly into know icing conditions. Sorry can't help you with the RV-8, but Warren Gretz (Yeller Pages) sells a nice setup. The only criticism that I have on Warren's pitot tube is that is somewhat larger than I expected, otherwise it is a quality product. Pat Hatch RV-4, N17PH @ VRB, 700 hours TT O-320, Hartzell C/S RV-6, Fuselage O-360, Hartzell C/S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Rush" <Gary.Rush(at)west.sun.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 11:23 AM Subject: RV-List: IFR questions > > With the discussion about IFR flying in RVs, I have a question. Isn't a heated > Pitot tube required in a plane certified for IFR flying? And if this is true, > does anyone have any experience with install a heated Pitot tube in an RV8? > > Thanks, > Gary Rush > Carlsbad, CA > RV8 Fuselage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2000
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: All Stirred up........
Well now I think we're getting things stirred up a little. Maybe some of you non-contributors are starting to feel a little guilty. Well let me just assure you, unlike the Ralph Nader voters in Florida, YOU can change your mind and still make a contribution! Yes it will be okay. I promise that Matt(e) won't let on who you are so you won't be singled out for ridicule..................In fact, if you make your contribution today, you will make the "A" list of contributors and no one will ever know how long you held out unless you want them to know............Just go to: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or send a check to: Matt Dralle C/O Matronics P.O. Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551 And be done with it........ come over to the good side.........be a player in life's game of "right things to do"..........relieve you conscience of that heavy burden of guilt....... MAKE THAT CONTRIBUTION NOW! Pitts List?????? I think I contributed to that one too.......can I have a new ballot??? All you folks receiving "The rest of the story" you should get "Who is Matt(e) Dralle (Part 6 and Part VII)" today. AL (Look out for (Part Ate) soon!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: IFR questions
Date: Nov 29, 2000
From: Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
> > >With the discussion about IFR flying in RVs, I have a question. Isn't a >heated >Pitot tube required in a plane certified for IFR flying? No, though it is probably a real good idea. >And if this is >true, >does anyone have any experience with install a heated Pitot tube in an RV8? > Even though it is not true, many people have experience installing a heated tube. Gretz makes a nice kit for it and it is quite simple. See archives. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
Subject: IFR questions
Date: Nov 29, 2000
I don't think so... I just took an IFR check ride in a plane that didn't have pitot heat. This doesn't mean having it would be a bad idea, though. Bryan Jones -8 765BJ ~55-hrs Pearland, Texas -----Original Message----- From: Gary Rush [mailto:Gary.Rush(at)west.sun.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 10:24 AM Subject: RV-List: IFR questions With the discussion about IFR flying in RVs, I have a question. Isn't a heated Pitot tube required in a plane certified for IFR flying? And if this is true, does anyone have any experience with install a heated Pitot tube in an RV8? Thanks, Gary Rush Carlsbad, CA RV8 Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com>
Subject: O360 Engine
Date: Nov 29, 2000
5.0.3 (Intl)|21 March 2000) at 11/29/2000 11:49:18 AM Gary, I know you didn't ask about rebuilding an O-360 yourself but if cost is an issue, it's worth considering. I got an O360-A4A from Air Salvage of Dallas a few months ago for $6500, it's a first-run engine taken off a Cherokee 180 at 2000 TTSN. Lucky Louque at ASOD is a great guy and he threw in an electric boost pump and complete vacuum system and an oil cooler in addition to the accessories that already came with the engine (Bendix mags, carb, alternator, engine driven fuel pump, etc). The only problem with it was that after removal from the Cherokee, the engine sat around for a while and has some rust. I need to replace or at least refinish the cam and will probly chrome the jugs, but the crank is serviceable as are the accessories. Get the Lycoming overhaul and parts manuals and it's a pretty easy job....if you can build a fuselage kit you can overhaul an engine. I don't expect to do all the work myself, I'll probly have the entire top end sent out for overhaul but even at that, I should have a reliable powerplant that will go 2000 hours for about $13K. A good overhaul is just as good as a new engine IMHO...in fact maybe even better in some ways. I have seen factory-new Lycomings throw rods or have other mechanical catostrophic failures within their first 100 hours of operation. In contrast I grew up flying with my dad over hostile terrain (the Amazon in Brazil) behind overhauled engines....so far 26 years of flying a C-206 with no problems (and that's a Continental, not a Lycoming). Good maintenance and proper operation go farther than having "Lycoming" or "Mattituck" stamped on the overhaul paperwork... Just my 2 cents. --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A hanging flaps and ailerons, inventorying fuse parts, overhauling O-360....whew! From: Gary Rush <Gary.Rush(at)west.sun.com> Subject: RV-List: 0360 Engine Any comments on the best source for a certified O360 engine for my RV8. I know Vans has some good prices but what about remanufactured or rebuilt? Such as Mattituck engines? Thanks, Gary Rush RV8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Subject: 0360 Engine New vs Rebuilt
Just to add my two cents on the new - rebuilt engine topic here is my experience. I have an IO-360 B1B 180 HP from Aero Sport Power with just 100 hours on it. I had Bart put the Bendix Injector and new Cylinders on the engine. With 100 Hours on it the engine has not had 1 single problem, it runs perfect the paint is still on it and the chrome valve covers and intake tubes look new. I good friend of mine finished his RV-4 about the same time and also has around 100 hours on it. He purchased a new O-360 from Vans and the airflow performance fuel injector. After about 50 hours one of the intake tubes was leaking at the sump. The Lycoming rep came down from Seattle and re flared the tube into the sump and bore scoped the cylinder. At this time the intake tube is leaking again and he now needs to replace the sump, Lycoming is going to pay for this. A lot of the paint on the engine has fallen off. I think for the price that these engines cost they could figure out how to paint one. The airflow performance unit drains fuel back into the air cleaner when it shuts down. The Bendix unit never leaks fuel anywhere, I have not had any hot start problems, even in Redding, CA in 98 deg after a fuel stop. Rob Hickman RV-4 (Painting) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Subject: Re: cht probe location
Hey Scott, How do you post a question to the RV list? I want to ask how to install the cht probe that goes under a spark plug. Does it go under, above, or in lieu of the copper plug gasket? Just thought it would be nice to bug you! See ya, Don twofeathersrv6@aol ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: ADF in an RV panel
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Ralph, The NDB's are slowly being phased out. But they are starting with the ones that are stand alone and not used as part of an approach. But seeing as how you are planning on an IFR certified GPS I wouldn't bother with the ADF. All the GPS databases show the location of the NDB's being used for the final approach fix. In other words if you have a GPS you won't need the ADF. Save your money for other goodies. Mike Robertson Das Fed RV-8A N809RS 5.1 hours >From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: "RV-LIST" >Subject: RV-List: ADF in an RV panel >Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 07:58:29 -0600 > > >During the "too cold to work in the garage" period's I've been working on >the designs for my instrument panel. I will be including VOR/GS/LOC as >well >as approach certified GPS. That should be enough to get me through the IMC >that I might get stuck in. I am planning on getting my Instrument Rating >in my RV after it's flying if that matters. > >Are any of you with flying and/or building RV's that are going to be using >ADF's? > >Next, are any of you flying non-RV's and using ADF's? > >During a discussion last night with some other builders - the topic of >ADF's >came up. Here are some of the comments. > >1. They're not fixing 'em when they break - they're just shutting 'em down. >2. It's nothing more than an AM radio that's unreliable for approaches - I >wouldn't depend on one. >3. In a few years they'll all be gone anyway - use the money for gas. > >One of the magazines just published a real nice article on ADF approaches - >how easy they really are. I don't recall if they addressed how much longer >ADF transmitters (NDB's I think!) will remain around. > >Maybe Das Fed can chime in here! > >I'm kinda ahead of myself on this from two perspectives...I'm not >instrument >rated and there's plenty of time before I need to commit to what's gonna be >staring me in the face. I'll listen to all opinions offered since there >isn't a book titled >"ADF's For Dummies"! > >Thanks, >Ralph Capen > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: IFR questions
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Gary, We installed a heated Pitot Tube in our RV-8A but only because there is so much moisture here in the air in Hawaii. But it is not required for IFR. Only for flight into known icing conditions, which I don't think you want to do in an RV. Mike Robertson RV-8A N809RS 5.1 hours >From: Gary Rush <Gary.Rush(at)west.sun.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: IFR questions >Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 08:23:51 -0800 (PST) > > >With the discussion about IFR flying in RVs, I have a question. Isn't a >heated >Pitot tube required in a plane certified for IFR flying? And if this is >true, >does anyone have any experience with install a heated Pitot tube in an RV8? > >Thanks, >Gary Rush >Carlsbad, CA >RV8 Fuselage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Subject: Re: engine hanging party part deaux
dear listers well i feel confident it will get hung this time, weather permitting, saturday 12,2,2000. around 12:00. food will be bar-be- que or something cajun, and some good ole fashion lie swapping. everyone is invited. aaaayyeeeeeeeee it don't get no better than this. ya'll come scott tampa rv6a hangin engine again. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: Nov 29, 2000
I installed "H" 9 to 1 pistons in my 0320 A2B . They work good ( 400 hrs.) Be advised you cannot use auto gas with this setup. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: O360 Engine
Date: Nov 29, 2000
For what it's worth, I bought my engine from AeroSport power for about $13K. Downside is that it's not certified, and is an O-320 and not an O-360. Not dis'ing you, Mark. Just throwing that out there for those who like me are a little intimidated by doing the engine work. -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA Network Administrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 -----Original Message----- From: menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com [mailto:menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 9:43 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; Gary.Rush(at)west.sun.com Subject: RV-List: O360 Engine Gary, I know you didn't ask about rebuilding an O-360 yourself but if cost is an issue, it's worth considering. I got an O360-A4A from Air Salvage of Dallas a few months ago for $6500, it's a first-run engine taken off a Cherokee 180 at 2000 TTSN. Lucky Louque at ASOD is a great guy and he threw in an electric boost pump and complete vacuum system and an oil cooler in addition to the accessories that already came with the engine (Bendix mags, carb, alternator, engine driven fuel pump, etc). The only problem with it was that after removal from the Cherokee, the engine sat around for a while and has some rust. I need to replace or at least refinish the cam and will probly chrome the jugs, but the crank is serviceable as are the accessories. Get the Lycoming overhaul and parts manuals and it's a pretty easy job....if you can build a fuselage kit you can overhaul an engine. I don't expect to do all the work myself, I'll probly have the entire top end sent out for overhaul but even at that, I should have a reliable powerplant that will go 2000 hours for about $13K. A good overhaul is just as good as a new engine IMHO...in fact maybe even better in some ways. I have seen factory-new Lycomings throw rods or have other mechanical catostrophic failures within their first 100 hours of operation. In contrast I grew up flying with my dad over hostile terrain (the Amazon in Brazil) behind overhauled engines....so far 26 years of flying a C-206 with no problems (and that's a Continental, not a Lycoming). Good maintenance and proper operation go farther than having "Lycoming" or "Mattituck" stamped on the overhaul paperwork... Just my 2 cents. --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A hanging flaps and ailerons, inventorying fuse parts, overhauling O-360....whew! From: Gary Rush <Gary.Rush(at)west.sun.com> Subject: RV-List: 0360 Engine Any comments on the best source for a certified O360 engine for my RV8. I know Vans has some good prices but what about remanufactured or rebuilt? Such as Mattituck engines? Thanks, Gary Rush RV8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2000
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-8 Incident
From the FAA web site: http://www.faa.gov/avr/aai/M_1129_N.TXT FYI **** 11/29/2000 Preliminary Accident/Incident Data Record 2 **** A. Type: I Mid Air: N Missing: N Entry date: 11/29/2000 From: WESTERN PACIFIC REGION OPERATIONS CENTER B. Reg. No.: 319H M/M: EXP Desc: EXP-1999 RV-8 Activity: Pleasure Phase: Landing GA-A/C: General Aviation Descr: EXPERIMENTAL ACFT WAS LANDING ON RWY 27R WHEN THE PILOT OBSERVED A COYOTE ON THE RWY, THE PILOT BRAKED, AND THE ACFT NOSED OVER ON THE RWY, EL CAJON, CA. WX: SPECI KSEE 281859Z 00000KT 30SM SKC 25/ A3002 Damage: Unknown C2. Injury Data: # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: D. Location. City: EL CAJON State: CA Country: US E. Event Date: 11/28/2000 Time: 1859 F. Invest Coverage. IIC: Reg/DO: WP09 DO City: SAN DIEGO Dest: EL CAJON, CA Last Radio Cont: 2 MILE FINAL Flt Plan: UNK Last Clearance: CLRD TO LAND WX Briefing: U ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Sticking Brakes
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Fellow Listers, What is the procedure for correcting a sticking brake? My right brake will stick for a minute or two after a hard application. I've got a few ideas on how to fix it but thought I'd ask the List first before I go in and FUBAR. Thanks. Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 Indianapolis (105 hours) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: 0360 Engine
> >Gary, > > I just received yesterday my 0-320. > >From; Pro Aero Engines Inc. > 2965 Airport Rd. > Kamloops BC. V2B 7W8 > > I had heard they had a good reputation and saved some money. Shipping to >Oregon was $165. plus $75. for custom paper work. > > They might have changed their name. When I ordered I had called them Aero >Power Sports. > >Jerry Wilken RV6A > Aero Sport Power is a division of Pro Aero Engines. Info at: http://www.aerosportpower.com/ If you want a good engine for a homebuilt for good price, you talk to the Aero Sport Power side of the company. If you want a good engine for a type certified aircraft, you send more money, and you talk to the Pro Aero Engines side. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 95% done) Ottawa, Canada http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: RV-8 Incident
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Yep. Cleared to land doesn't mean that the runway's clear. I fly out of a rural airport and have learned to look for dogs, coyotes, pheasants, geese, and most importantly, deer, and cattle on the runway. It's bad enough during the day but at night you'll never see them. Part of why I don't really like to fly out of my home strip at night. I'll do it, but I'm pretty nervous about it. -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA Network Administrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 -----Original Message----- From: Gary A. Sobek [mailto:rv6flier(at)yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 11:45 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; socal-rvlist(at)egroups.com Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Incident From the FAA web site: http://www.faa.gov/avr/aai/M_1129_N.TXT FYI **** 11/29/2000 Preliminary Accident/Incident Data Record 2 **** A. Type: I Mid Air: N Missing: N Entry date: 11/29/2000 From: WESTERN PACIFIC REGION OPERATIONS CENTER B. Reg. No.: 319H M/M: EXP Desc: EXP-1999 RV-8 Activity: Pleasure Phase: Landing GA-A/C: General Aviation Descr: EXPERIMENTAL ACFT WAS LANDING ON RWY 27R WHEN THE PILOT OBSERVED A COYOTE ON THE RWY, THE PILOT BRAKED, AND THE ACFT NOSED OVER ON THE RWY, EL CAJON, CA. WX: SPECI KSEE 281859Z 00000KT 30SM SKC 25/ A3002 Damage: Unknown C2. Injury Data: # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: D. Location. City: EL CAJON State: CA Country: US E. Event Date: 11/28/2000 Time: 1859 F. Invest Coverage. IIC: Reg/DO: WP09 DO City: SAN DIEGO Dest: EL CAJON, CA Last Radio Cont: 2 MILE FINAL Flt Plan: UNK Last Clearance: CLRD TO LAND WX Briefing: U ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2000
From: John Lee <borgny(at)rconnect.com>
Subject: Re: ADF in an RV panel
Why have an ADF when your GPS will fly the same approach? "Ralph E. Capen" wrote: > > During the "too cold to work in the garage" period's I've been working on > the designs for my instrument panel. I will be including VOR/GS/LOC as well > as approach certified GPS. That should be enough to get me through the IMC > that I might get stuck in. I am planning on getting my Instrument Rating > in my RV after it's flying if that matters. > > Are any of you with flying and/or building RV's that are going to be using > ADF's? > > Next, are any of you flying non-RV's and using ADF's? > > During a discussion last night with some other builders - the topic of ADF's > came up. Here are some of the comments. > > 1. They're not fixing 'em when they break - they're just shutting 'em down. > 2. It's nothing more than an AM radio that's unreliable for approaches - I > wouldn't depend on one. > 3. In a few years they'll all be gone anyway - use the money for gas. > > One of the magazines just published a real nice article on ADF approaches - > how easy they really are. I don't recall if they addressed how much longer > ADF transmitters (NDB's I think!) will remain around. > > Maybe Das Fed can chime in here! > > I'm kinda ahead of myself on this from two perspectives...I'm not instrument > rated and there's plenty of time before I need to commit to what's gonna be > staring me in the face. I'll listen to all opinions offered since there > isn't a book titled > "ADF's For Dummies"! > > Thanks, > Ralph Capen > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2000
From: RV6160hp(at)AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Sticking Brakes
Maybe you need to check the spring tension and pivot bolt tightness in the toe paddle hinge areas...I found I had to make mine a little less precision and tad more sloppier. Then the return spring pushed off fine...till then I had intermittent brake tension due to non fluid release as the toe paddles wouldn't return easily enough. David McManmon N58DM, RV6 0320H2AD. 90+ hours....but been weathered out 6+ weeks now...blahhhhhh I do not like NY now!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 Incident
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Uh, well reading this it doesn't look like the coyote caused the incident. It looks more like the pilot screwed the pooch...or coyote if you prefer. Fly the plane...kill the coyote if you have too (Darwin at work) but don't nose your beautiful plane over to avoid a stray that would likely jump clear anyway. Bet it was one of those moments when you do something and as you are doing so there is a part of your brain yelling 'DON'T DO IT MAN' as the tail starts to come up.........damn. I hope noone was injured. Bill -4 wings > > > > **** 11/29/2000 Preliminary Accident/Incident Data > >Record > >2 **** > > A. Type: I Mid Air: N Missing: N Entry date: > >11/29/2000 > > > > From: WESTERN PACIFIC REGION OPERATIONS CENTER > > > > B. Reg. No.: 319H M/M: EXP Desc: EXP-1999 RV-8 > > Activity: Pleasure Phase: Landing GA-A/C: General Aviation > > Descr: EXPERIMENTAL ACFT WAS LANDING ON RWY 27R WHEN THE > >PILOT OBSERVED > > A > > COYOTE ON THE RWY, THE PILOT BRAKED, AND THE ACFT > >NOSED OVER ON > > THE RWY, EL CAJON, CA. > > > > WX: SPECI KSEE 281859Z 00000KT 30SM SKC 25/ A3002 > > Damage: Unknown > > C2. Injury Data: # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: > >0 Unk: > > # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: > >0 Unk: > > # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: > >0 Unk: > > D. Location. City: EL CAJON State: CA Country: US > > E. Event Date: 11/28/2000 Time: 1859 > > F. Invest Coverage. IIC: Reg/DO: WP09 DO City: SAN > >DIEGO > > Dest: EL CAJON, CA Last Radio Cont: 2 MILE FINAL Flt > >Plan: > >UNK > > Last Clearance: CLRD TO LAND WX Briefing: U > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: add for eis
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Bert... Here is their web address: http://hometown.aol.com/enginfosys/index.htm Their e-mail address: EngInfoSys(at)aol.com Bill VonDane, Colorado Springs, CO RV-8A, N8VD, Fuselage http://vondane.com/rv8a/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "bert murillo" <bertrv6(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 4:39 PM Subject: RV-List: add for eis Hi: does any one have the E-mail add. for Grand rapids technologies. It seems the one i got on their fax is not correct. thanks bert ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jim jewell" <jjewell(at)okanagan.net>
Subject: Re: O360 Engine
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Hello again, In my last posting I made a mistreak, I relied on my memory. The name listed on the net is: Progressive Air services ltd. 2965 Airport Rd. Kamloops BC. Ph-250-376-6226 Bart Lalonde's -Ph -250-376-2955 Now somewhere in this house is the estimate for the rebuild of my engine and it has the exact name of Bart's operation Hmmm? Sorry Bout That, Jim, "I never make mistreaks" Jewell in Kelowna. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Subject: Re: Converting a 6A to a 6
In a message dated 11/29/00 1:03:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, rv6man(at)earthlink.net writes: > I dont think it would be a big deal. The motor mount is easy. > The tricky part would be the weldment for tail spring. I think you > Correct, but I seem to remember that the rear bulkhead is doubled on the -6, so you'l need to add the second one. Still, not a huge job. Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Electric DG why not GPSS???
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Ross, I agree that you don't need a heading bug, and GPSS will work fine for tracking GPS courses, but... The problem with GPSS is that you are not getting a heading readout, you're getting a track readout. If you are going to fly IFR (or even VFR flight following) you have to be able to follow magnetic headings given to you by ATC. These headings could be vectors for an ILS approach or for traffic separation. Either way, ATC is going to expect you and all other aircraft to fly a magnetic heading. You can see the chaos that would result if some airplanes were flying GPS tracks and others magnetic headings. Maybe someday the FAA will change their convention from headings to tracks? Actually the advantage to flying tracks would be consistency, in that a track would always look the same on a radar scope whereas headings would be affected by the wind on a given day. Hope this answers your question. Pat Hatch RV-4, N17PH @ VRB, 700 hrs. TT O-320, Hartzell C/S RV-6, Fuselage pat_hatch(at)msn.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 2:42 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Electric DG why not GPSS??? > > Pat, > > I was just wondering why you have to have a heading bug? Why not just use > the GPSS? http://www.s-tec.com/gpss.html > > Ross > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "pat_hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com> > > This has prompted me to go back and re-think my electrical system. I > > have now decided to go with one B&C alternator and two 17-a.h. batteries > > per Electric Bob's book--and go with the Sigma-Tek Gold Seal vacuum > > pump, attitude indicator, and DG with the heading bug. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Sticking Brakes
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Randy - Check to see that the slide pins near the calipers are not corroded or dirty. This may cause the caliper to 'cock' at an angle when applying the brake and the brake will act as though it is still applied upon release until a bit of vibration shakes the caliper loose. Douglas G. Murray Southern Alberta ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 12:40 PM Subject: RV-List: Sticking Brakes > > Fellow Listers, > > What is the procedure for correcting a sticking brake? My right brake will > stick for a minute or two after a hard application. I've got a few ideas on > how to fix it but thought I'd ask the List first before I go in and FUBAR. > Thanks. > > Randy Pflanzer N417G > RV-6 Indianapolis (105 hours) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2000
From: Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Re: Converting a 6A to a 6
Check current RVator (just got today) There is a 6 motor mount with gear legs for sale. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Berryhill" <dwberryhill(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Have You Made Your Contribution Yet? 'A List' Due in Two
Days!
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Hi all! I'm a newbie to this list but I've already learned a lot from the list and the archives so I'll pitch in. Who do I make the check out to? Matrinics? Dave Berryhill > > Hi Listers, > > Just a quick reminder that I will post the "A List" of this year's > contributors in just a little over 2 days! I would like to thank > everyone that has made a Contribution so far! I would also like to > encourage those that have been putting off making their Contribution > to the last minute, to hurry and surf over to the URL below or pop that > check in the mail today! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: Van's panel dimmer
Date: Nov 29, 2000
FWIW, I was at Van's yesterday and brought my panel dimmer along with Jim Andrews' post and the article and schematic out of 18 years of the RV-Ator. I did not get the name of the gentleman that I talked to (it wasn't Scott or Scott or Tom), but he said that it was designed my Bill Benedict and are now being built by his widow. He said none of the dimmer kits have ever had the capacitors, and no one has ever complained (until I came along that is). He sort of rolled his eyes when I mentioned "the list". I pointed out the fact that the original schematic had the capacitors called out, and the unit even has the ports for them. He made copies of Jim's post and the article and said he would mention this to Mrs. Benedict. I hadn't seen Scott McD's post, so maybe he's gotten the word out to the tech guys at Van's. Mike Robbins RV8Q 80591 panel Seattle area ----- Original Message ----- From: <clayfly(at)libertybay.com> > Scott, > Just did my first night flying and had the same problem with Van's dimmer --- push the XMIT button and the lights go out. When you update your web page with the solution, please post the www address. I'd like to see the solution. > > Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X, 50+ hours > Indiana > > > > The dimmer has never come with the capacitors installed (even though > > there is a place for them on the ckt. board. > > They usually are not needed (all of the airplanes at Vans are flying with > > this circuit with out the caps and there is know ill effects). > > If your particular installation needs them then they can be added. > > > > Unfortunately this wasn't in the documentation provided with the unit but > > I believe that is being corrected. > > > > > > Scott McDaniels ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Daniel Estrada F." <dani_estrada(at)infosel.net.mx>
Subject: PRIMERS....
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Hi..! I was looking on the archives but I could not find what I wanted.... Wich primer from all of this I'm listing is good for priming my empenage?: (BTW all this primers are from Sherwin Williams) WASH PRIMER (SPECIALTY COATING) CM0484684 Primer 1 part CM0120789 Reducer 1 part Green Vinyl Butyral Excellent conversion primer. Promotes adhesion to clean, deoxidized aluminum surfaces. CORROSION PRIMERS CM0483928 Primer 4 parts CM0120828 Adduct or CM0120838 Special Adduct 1 part Green Epoxy Chromated, low VOC, non-sanding primer for use over CM0484684 or conversion coated surfaces. Outstanding primer on steel, aluminum, magnesium: easy spray application excellent flexibility chemical and corrosion resistant CM0724500 Primer 3 parts CM0724501 Adduct 1 part Yellow Epoxy Meets Mil-P-23377G, Type 1, Class C, composition and performance specification. Similar to CM0483928. SANDING SURFACER CM0480920 Primer 4 parts CM0120911 Adduct 1 part White Epoxy Low VOC, fill/sanding primer that enhances depth of image on gloss finishes. Use over corrosion primer. Light sand same day or heavier sanding with overnight cure. Forms a tough film Thanks for your help Daniel Estrada F RV6A Empenage Mexico City ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Subject: Re: On rolling of the eyes at Van's-commentary
In a message dated 11/29/00 9:33:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, kitfox(at)gte.net writes: << He sort of rolled his eyes when I mentioned "the list". >> Great body language study. They roll their eyes now and they've shrugged their shoulders before in response to some of the real issues that have been raised over the years by "the list". Perhaps they are just weary of listening to real people struggling in a somewhat democratic fashion to solve real problems not of our own making. I know it must be irritating to hear such nonsense. Maybe a little strong but just a thought, I could be wrong. -GV (RV-6A N1GV) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2000
Subject: Re: Panel dimmer
From: Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com>
Scott, Just did my first night flying and had the same problem with Van's dimmer --- push the XMIT button and the lights go out. When you update your web page with the solution, please post the www address. I'd like to see the solution. Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X, 50+ hours Indiana - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I didn't say that the info would be posted to the web site. I said that it will be added to the instructions supplied with the dimmer unit. The info that you need is in one of the previous posts of this thread here on the RV-list. Scott McDaniels North Plains, OR These opinions and ideas are my own and may not reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer. GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: ADF in an RV panel
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Ralph, I got my IFR rating in my RV-6A, and, at the time, was required to demonstrate ADF approaches. (Currently, that's not the case.) I do have an ADf (KX-86) in the panel, and shoot numerous approaches every year. I also have a GX-55 Enroute certified GPS, that I use as a secondary backup to every NDB approach. My issue is the cost of maintaining an IFR data base in the GPS. With the ADF, there is no associated maintenance cost, and if the GPS data base doesn't get updated, I can still perform the approach, using the "VFR Only" GPS for positional awareness only (Airports doesn't usually change their locations...) Learning to fly actual NDB approaches is a great way to hone the skills that could someday save your butt when everything else fails. Sometimes it's all to easy to rely on the easiest piece of gear to use (i.e., GPS). While it is true that NDB's are not being replaced, there are still many in service, especially in the tropics. Also, many ILS approaches require an ADF (Kinston, NC, ISO). A certified GPS, with a CURRENT data base, is required for any substitutions.... Fred Stucklen N925RV (1670 hrs/7.5 Yrs) E. Windsor, CT 06088 WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com ____ From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RV-List: ADF in an RV panel During the "too cold to work in the garage" period's I've been working on the designs for my instrument panel. I will be including VOR/GS/LOC as well as approach certified GPS. That should be enough to get me through the IMC that I might get stuck in. I am planning on getting my Instrument Rating in my RV after it's flying if that matters. Are any of you with flying and/or building RV's that are going to be using ADF's? Next, are any of you flying non-RV's and using ADF's? During a discussion last night with some other builders - the topic of ADF's came up. Here are some of the comments. 1. They're not fixing 'em when they break - they're just shutting 'em down. 2. It's nothing more than an AM radio that's unreliable for approaches - I wouldn't depend on one. 3. In a few years they'll all be gone anyway - use the money for gas. One of the magazines just published a real nice article on ADF approaches - how easy they really are. I don't recall if they addressed how much longer ADF transmitters (NDB's I think!) will remain around. Maybe Das Fed can chime in here! I'm kinda ahead of myself on this from two perspectives...I'm not instrument rated and there's plenty of time before I need to commit to what's gonna be staring me in the face. I'll listen to all opinions offered since there isn't a book titled "ADF's For Dummies"! Thanks, Ralph Capen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DThomas773(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Subject: Engine search
Hi Listers, Does any one on list have information or able to tell me anything about company in Florida building Lycoming engines for experimentals? Air-Tec Inc. 1339 W. Washington St. Orlando Fl. Dennis Thomas RV-9a Emp ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wires through the firewall
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: Nov 30, 2000
11/30/2000 08:28:25 AM All, I need some advice regarding how folks are dealing with the ever increasing number of wires that need to pass through the firewall. Particularly for those of you who have engine monitors like the RMI and the VM1000. At last count I have 15 large pair of sensor and primer wires that need to pass through. Add to this grounding strap and starter contactor and were talking about quite a bundle of wires. I currently have four one inch holes filled with the standard 3/8 inch hole grommet / fire shield combo but this just barely scratches the surface. Thanks, - Jim Andrews RV-8A ( cowling and FWF ) O360 A1A Sensenich 85 N89JA reserved http://www.homestead.com/RV8A/files/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2000
From: Gary Gunn <ggunn(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Wing skin order of installation
Hello all... I'm working on my -6 wings and was wanting to know the order of skin installation most folks do. The plans tell you to install the main skins first and the video does the leading edge skin first. Is there any advantage one way or the other? I have the pre-punched type. Thanks, Gary Gunn RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com>
Subject: O360 Engine
Date: Nov 30, 2000
5.0.3 (Intl)|21 March 2000) at 11/30/2000 09:40:21 AM Scott, No offense taken on my part. Some people don't want to mess with engine work, or don't want to spend the extra time it takes to do it yourself. My comment is simply that it's not very difficult....lots of folks are needlessly intimidated (IMHO) by engine work primarily because it is viewed as a critical and mysterious mechanical wonder, the type of thing only A&P's or repair stations should work on. In reality the Lycoming is a very simple piece of machinery and the overhaul/parts manuals are pretty good. I'm only saying that if you wanted more power for less money and were willing to spend the TIME to do it, you could do a quality, safe overhaul the same way you are building the airframe. A really big and important side benefit to this is that you will also know how to work on it when doing routine maintenance once you are flying. Since you are, afterall, the mechanic for your airplane. The more you know about your engine the better. In my case I wanted the O-360 so I am willing to do the extra work to get it for the same price as the O-320 from AeroSport Power. I have a friend building an -8 who did the same thing you did (O-320 from AeroSport for $13K) and he'll be out flying while I'm still building. But I wanted the -360 for its extra 20 horses, ability to use the f.p. metal Sensenich without the 2600 rmp limitation, and ability to burn 91 octane in it and still make rated power. I think some O-320's can burn 91 octane without putting the low compression pistons in it (and taking the subsequent loss of 10 hp) but I'm not sure about this. --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A hanging flaps....trying to get it to line up... From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: O360 Engine For what it's worth, I bought my engine from AeroSport power for about $13K. Downside is that it's not certified, and is an O-320 and not an O-360. Not dis'ing you, Mark. Just throwing that out there for those who like me are a little intimidated by doing the engine work. -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA Network Administrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Prince P-Tip Propellers
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Does anyone have experience flying a Prince P-Tip prop? The archives are not much help. Posts seem to confuse these with pure composite or pure carbon fiber props, some of which appear to have a very poor history. Prince P-Tip is described on P.166 of the Aircraft Spruce catalogue. It has a hard maple core sheathed with composite and a leading edge protector. Seems like the best of both worlds - I really prefer wood and the P-Tip surfaces are better protected. For me, safety overrides all considerations. I will closely follow other experience with the RV-9A with O-235 as experince is gained. I am currently leaning toward Sensenich (wood or metal), or Amar-Demuth. Ernest Kells RV-9A - Building Wings, Planning: O-235 Wood Prop Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wing skin order of installation
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Gary, I'm pretty much at the same stage as you. I went with the video's order, and here's why: The leading edge and tank skins need to be positioned to a line 1" aft of the leading edge of the spar web. Theoretically, at this point they will be good and tight against the ribs. But as you drill the skin to the ribs, you may end up crossing that 1" line by a little bit. If the main skins were already positioned and you overlapped them with the LE skin, you will need to trim. I reasoned that my rudimentary trimming skills would make for a less than beautiful seam between the two skins. However, once the LE and tank skins are on, the flat main skins can butt up against them with no worries. Any overage can be trimmed off the trailing edge where an uneven line will be less noticeable. This procedure has been done both ways with success, I just feel more comfortable doing it this way. Good luck. Jim Bower St. Louis, MO RV-6A Wings >From: Gary Gunn <ggunn(at)uswest.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Wing skin order of installation >Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 08:30:54 -0700 > > >Hello all... >I'm working on my -6 wings and was wanting to know the order of skin >installation most folks >do. The plans tell you to install the main skins first and the video >does the leading edge skin first. >Is there any advantage one way or the other? I have the pre-punched >type. > >Thanks, >Gary Gunn >RV-6 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: Wires around the firewall Was: Wires through the firewall
Date: Nov 30, 2000
This is one area where I'm glad I'm building a -4. We have those sexy cheek cowls that lets us bring things like wires and stuff out the side of the airplane instead of through the firewall. Speaking of which, have any RV4 builders routed their wires this way? Through the cheek cowls I mean. I've also heard of builder routing throttle, mixture, and carb heat control cables this way too. Anyone ever done that? How did you do it? Just curious. -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA Network Administrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 -----Original Message----- From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com [mailto:Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com] Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 6:29 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; rv8list(at)egroups.com Subject: RV-List: Wires through the firewall All, I need some advice regarding how folks are dealing with the ever increasing number of wires that need to pass through the firewall. Particularly for those of you who have engine monitors like the RMI and the VM1000. At last count I have 15 large pair of sensor and primer wires that need to pass through. Add to this grounding strap and starter contactor and were talking about quite a bundle of wires. I currently have four one inch holes filled with the standard 3/8 inch hole grommet / fire shield combo but this just barely scratches the surface. Thanks, - Jim Andrews RV-8A ( cowling and FWF ) O360 A1A Sensenich 85 N89JA reserved http://www.homestead.com/RV8A/files/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: The Looming Avgas Crisis
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Listers: The attached is a good article on avgas availability. MAINTENANCE MATTERS <http://www.avweb.com/toc/maint.html> The vast majority of the U.S. general aviation fleet burns gasoline. Yet the supply of avgas is by no means assured: Its widespread availability hinges on the supply of additives and the outcome of challenges by environmentalists, among other factors. AVweb contributor Paul Merritt takes a look at what's going on in the industry and evaluates the issues and the alternatives. Ernest Kells RV-9A - Building Wings, Planning: O-235 Wood Prop Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Wires through the firewall
Date: Nov 30, 2000
-----Original Message----- From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com <Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com> Date: Thursday, November 30, 2000 8:31 AM Subject: RV-List: Wires through the firewall > >All, > I currently have four one inch >holes filled with the standard 3/8 inch hole grommet / fire shield combo >but this just barely scratches the surface. > >Thanks, > >- Jim Andrews >RV-8A ( cowling and FWF ) >O360 A1A Sensenich 85 >N89JA reserved >http://www.homestead.com/RV8A/files/ > Jim, I suspect you may have an inappropriate choice of firewall shields and/or grommets. I think the Van's SSFS-1 1/4X3/4H shield and an MS35489-22 grommet should give you a 7/16 hole for the wires. The grommet is the tough part -- you have to find one with a big enough inner hole. You may in fact do better at ACE hardware than Wicks. When you install the VM1000 do spring for the extra set of terminals as they recommend to simplify future maintenance. Its a shame that Vision Micro doesn't just add $75 or so to the price of the unit and include them. Their maintenance tech suggested this tip to me and it sure makes the wiring easier! Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 16 Hours Hampshire, IL C38 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ENewton57(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Subject: Re: Wing skin order of installation
Hi Gary, I installed the leading edge and tank skins first and then the main skins. This allowed me to butt the main skins up against the leading edge and tank skins before drilling and created a nice tight seam line where they meet. It works great and no trimming of the skins was necessary. BTW I also have the pre-punched skins. Happy Building, Eric Newton Long Beach, MS, RV-6A N57ME (reserved) (Fuselage) Eric's RV-6A Construction Page In a message dated 11/30/00 9:42:19 AM Central Standard Time, ggunn(at)uswest.net writes: << I'm working on my -6 wings and was wanting to know the order of skin installation most folks do. The plans tell you to install the main skins first and the video does the leading edge skin first. >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2000
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: Last Call............
Well today is the last day for you to make your List contribution in November. Unfortunately I think that we have fallen short of past years donations. I have a challenge for all of those who didn't think they needed to make a contribution. With the exception of some old timers who have contributed both knowledge and money in the past and who maybe don't have a need to be on the list anymore and are pretty much just lurking for whatever reason, why would the rest of you think that you don't need to make a contribution? Why do you subscribe to the list and basically say it's worthless by your actions? I mean please tell the rest of us by what yardstick you measure value? Do you subscribe to any aviation magazines? Do you belong to any aviation organizations? Don't you pay for those publications and memberships with associated publications? Do they make available to you nearly instantaneous responses to your questions? Are they as knowledgeable about RV aircraft as the people on this list are? What is your value system? Curious minds (and contributors) want to know. I don't mean to make you feel bad about yourself (yes I do!) but what are you thinking? I have come to the conclusion that most if not all the people who haven't made any contribution at all just delete these pleas without even opening them because they know I'm right and it's hard to face the truth. So if your reading this right now I want to take this opportunity to personally thank you for making your contribution because you probably made one and if your one of the two or three who haven't made a contribution yet and still have the guts to read this, please make your contribution today.......Thanks........Al ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2000
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wing skin order of installation
--- Gary Gunn wrote: > > > Hello all... > I'm working on my -6 wings and was wanting to know the order of skin > installation most folks > do. The plans tell you to install the main skins first and the video > does the leading edge skin first. > Is there any advantage one way or the other? I have the pre-punched > type. I recommend putting on the leading edges and tanks, then butting the main skins tho them, take off excess (if necessary) from the rear of the mains. Worked for me... Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Richardson" <kpd_307(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: PRIMERS....
Date: Nov 30, 2000
> >Wich primer from all of this I'm listing is good for priming my empenage?: > (BTW all this primers are from Sherwin Williams) Daniel, I plan to use Dupont VeriPrime for my entire plane. It requires little surface prep (wash with soap and water, vinegar and water, followed by 90% rubbing alcohol) and is a two part self etching primer. It's drawback is that it is corrosive to the lungs, and you should plan on wearing a respirator/ organic filter mask while spraying (a $15 part from any home improvement store that you should be wearing anyway). I have spoken with several auto body techs that swear by it, and one that specifically sprayed his entire boat with it to stop corrosion. Veriprime is listed as a suitable primer by Van's and is mixed 1:1, stopping those hard calculations while the paint dries. Good Luck. Greg Richardson Kokomo, IN RV-9A (priming empennage for assy) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net>
Subject: Re: Wing skin order of installation
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Hi Gary, I'm getting ready to head to the basement to finish up fitting and drilling my second set of skins and I've got pictures to prove it! On the first wing I fit and drilled the skins in the following order because that how Vans recommended it. Top outboard Top inboard bottom outboard bottom inboard leading edge - Starting with the top side first I experienced about 1/4" overlap of the bottom skin and the bottom part of the leading edge skin which the manual says is normal and needs to be trimmed up. In my mind, the important things to keep lined up are the inboard and outboard skin lines on the main spar. I was thinking of installing the top skins first then the leading edge skins then the bottom skins and not worrying about the 1" distance on the on the bottom flange of the main spar. The problem with doing it this way is that the tank skins might not have the same amount of "wrap around" and might not line up with the bottom. I'll probably finish up the second skin in the same sequence as the first (per the plans). Because of the pre punching, I've found the sequence of assembly on the videos to be quite a bit different than what's recommended by Vans and I've been following the construction manual as far as sequence goes. You can see the sequence of events of evens that I used here along with some associated problems.
http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page/ Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res) Plainfield, IL Skinning the Wings http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page > > > Hello all... > I'm working on my -6 wings and was wanting to know the order of skin > installation most folks > do. The plans tell you to install the main skins first and the video > does the leading edge skin first. > Is there any advantage one way or the other? I have the pre-punched > type. > > Thanks, > Gary Gunn > RV-6 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: Wires through the firewall
Date: Nov 30, 2000
> I need some advice regarding how folks are dealing with the ever increasing > number of wires that need to pass through the firewall. Particularly for > those of you who have engine monitors like the RMI and the VM1000. At last > count I have 15 large pair of sensor and primer wires that need to pass > through. Add to this grounding strap and starter contactor and were > talking about quite a bundle of wires. I currently have four one inch > holes filled with the standard 3/8 inch hole grommet / fire shield combo > but this just barely scratches the surface. > > Thanks, > > - Jim Andrews Jim, I'm using mostly Electronics International guages, but have all the same wires and connections to deal with. I don't have any primer wires or tubes, but I do have several wires and a computer cable for my Lasar system. So far I have made four firewall penetrations for wiring (two on each side) with the same hole size and grommet/shields you describe. One of those is taken up with the battery hot wire (my battery is behind the firewall in the bottom of the right fwd baggage hold, can be seen at www.rv-8.com/pgElectrical.htm). So far it looks like I will be able to get them all through the remaining three holes. I think you want those holes to be packed tightly with wires so there is less air space to seal with the ubiquitous hi-temp RTV. I have split my grommets so that I can wrap the grommet around the wires and fit many more through each hole thus creating a tightly packed bundle. Result: fewer firewall penetrations and a tighter seal in each one that you do make. Once I finish painting I'll do my final wiring and will be able to tell you how many penetrations were needed in the final analysis. Until then however I really think I can get the job done with three plus the battery cable. Regards, Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500, painting www.rv-8.com Home Wing VAF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net>
Subject: Re: Wing skin order of installation
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Jim, I'll be starting to drill the second skin just as soon as this message is sent. The problem I see with doing it the way you suggest is that you are assuming that both the LE skin and the tank skin will overlap the same amount. If they do not, then you will not have a straight butt line from the outboard side to the inboard side. If you force them to line up without trimming, then you are taking the risk that the LE skin will not be flat against the ribs. I was thinking about ignoring the 1" line on the bottom skins but decided that I wanted to ensure that there was a straight line when the skins butt against each other. By doing the top and bottom main skins first, I can at least ensure that the LE skin is butting tight against the top main skin and I can trim the bottom where it will not be so visible. People that are looking under the wing are more apt to notice that the seam line is not straight before they notice if the trimming is a little of. My opinion only of course. > Gary, > > I'm pretty much at the same stage as you. I went with the video's order, > and here's why: > > The leading edge and tank skins need to be positioned to a line 1" aft of > the leading edge of the spar web. Theoretically, at this point they will be > good and tight against the ribs. But as you drill the skin to the ribs, you > may end up crossing that 1" line by a little bit. If the main skins were > already positioned and you overlapped them with the LE skin, you will need > to trim. I reasoned that my rudimentary trimming skills would make for a > less than beautiful seam between the two skins. However, once the LE and > tank skins are on, the flat main skins can butt up against them with no > worries. Any overage can be trimmed off the trailing edge where an uneven > line will be less noticeable. > > This procedure has been done both ways with success, I just feel more > comfortable doing it this way. > > Good luck. > > Jim Bower > St. Louis, MO > RV-6A > Wings > > > >From: Gary Gunn <ggunn(at)uswest.net> > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: RV-List: Wing skin order of installation > >Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 08:30:54 -0700 > > > > > > > >Hello all... > >I'm working on my -6 wings and was wanting to know the order of skin > >installation most folks > >do. The plans tell you to install the main skins first and the video > >does the leading edge skin first. > >Is there any advantage one way or the other? I have the pre-punched > >type. > > > >Thanks, > >Gary Gunn > >RV-6 > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Craig Chipley?
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Anyone know Craig Chipley? He sold me the wings I have (partially done) and he has some parts he said he was going to send. Now, I can't get a response from him. Any help would be appreciated. He was in Memphis, now I believe he's in St. Louis....but don't know for sure. He sent me two emails saying he would send me the parts right away...but no joy so far and that was several months ago. Now I NEED them to finish up the wings. Thanks Bill -4 wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2000
From: Gary Rush <Gary.Rush(at)west.sun.com>
Subject: Re: PRIMERS....
FWIW, Sterling Primer U1201 is a two part primer that provides corrosion protection without being top coated. Gary RV8 > From: "Greg Richardson" <kpd_307(at)hotmail.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: PRIMERS.... > Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:17:08 > > > > > > > >Wich primer from all of this I'm listing is good for priming my empenage?: > > (BTW all this primers are from Sherwin Williams) > > > Daniel, > > I plan to use Dupont VeriPrime for my entire plane. It requires little > surface prep (wash with soap and water, vinegar and water, followed by 90% > rubbing alcohol) and is a two part self etching primer. It's drawback is > that it is corrosive to the lungs, and you should plan on wearing a > respirator/ organic filter mask while spraying (a $15 part from any home > improvement store that you should be wearing anyway). I have spoken with > several auto body techs that swear by it, and one that specifically sprayed > his entire boat with it to stop corrosion. Veriprime is listed as a > suitable primer by Van's and is mixed 1:1, stopping those hard calculations > while the paint dries. > Good Luck. > > > Greg Richardson > Kokomo, IN RV-9A (priming empennage for assy) > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wires through the firewall
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: Nov 30, 2000
11/30/2000 12:31:29 PM >I think you want those holes to be packed tightly with wires so there is >less air space to seal with the ubiquitous hi-temp RTV. I have split my >grommets so that I can wrap the grommet around the wires and fit many more >through each hole thus creating a tightly packed bundle. Result: fewer >firewall penetrations and a tighter seal in each one that you do make. Interesting technique. I thought about this approach but I was concerned about the sharp little edges of the fireshelds cutting into the wires. How did you overcome this since they have a fixed 1/2 inch diameter that is almost the same size as the hole in the grommet when stretched? - Jim Andrews RV-8A ( cowling and FWF ) O-360 A1A Sensenich 85 N89JA reserved http://www.homestead.com/RV8A/files/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-8 Incident - Critters on the RWY
Date: Nov 30, 2000
I've just started flying my RV at night, so of course all the old salts have been offering me free advice. Some of which is worth what I've paid for it, and some of which is INVALUABLE. I fly out of Chester CT, 3B9. A well kept, but small airport. In the evenings, particularly in the winter it can go hours between any takeoffs or landings. One guy suggested that when ariving in the evening that I make a low pass over the runway before landing. He said it would allow me to inspect the RWY and would also most likely scare away any Deer that may be loitering on the runway or around its edges. Just a thought. Regards, Don Mei N92CT RV-4 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bezinque, David" <David_Bezinque(at)MAXTOR.COM>
Subject: RV6 slider track fairing
Date: Nov 30, 2000
How do you bend the slider track fairing? I have tried using a small bending brake, but the bends are too close together to fit in the brake. Is there a better way? Dave Bezinque RV6 QB S/N3499 - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2000
From: Larry Rush <krush(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 58 Msgs - 11/29/00
Please change my e-mail address: old: Reason, new computer.... TKS, Larry Rush > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2000
From: bert murillo <bertrv6(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Alignment wings
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Waalkes" <waalkes(at)netnitco.net>
Subject: Re: Last Call............
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Al, Rather than the constantly degrading those that have not contributed and acting like a victim, why don't you just change the system? If it's that important than design the subscription as a fee based service up front. I personally use a lot of information on the internet without paying AND I pay for services that I value as well. You shouldn't condemn people for using a free service if it's presented as such. In a nutshell - Quit whining and do whatever needs to be done to keep the list alive..... Bob Waalkes RV-8 Emp. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 11:00 AM Subject: RV-List: Last Call............ > > Well today is the last day for you to make your List contribution in November. > Unfortunately I think that we have fallen short of past years donations. I > have a challenge for all of those who didn't think they needed to make a > contribution. With the exception of some old timers who have contributed > both knowledge and money in the past and who maybe don't have a need to be > on the list anymore and are pretty much just lurking for whatever reason, > why would the rest of you think that you don't need to make a contribution? > Why do you subscribe to the list and basically say it's worthless by your > actions? I mean please tell the rest of us by what yardstick you measure > value? Do you subscribe to any aviation magazines? Do you belong to any > aviation organizations? Don't you pay for those publications and > memberships with associated publications? Do they make available to you > nearly instantaneous responses to your questions? Are they as knowledgeable > about RV aircraft as the people on this list are? What is your value > system? Curious minds (and contributors) want to know. I don't mean to > make you feel bad about yourself (yes I do!) but what are you thinking? I > have come to the conclusion that most if not all the people who haven't > made any contribution at all just delete these pleas without even opening > them because they know I'm right and it's hard to face the truth. So if > your reading this right now I want to take this opportunity to personally > thank you for making your contribution because you probably made one and if > your one of the two or three who haven't made a contribution yet and still > have the guts to read this, please make your contribution > today.......Thanks........Al > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Last Call............
Date: Nov 30, 2000
I would also like to add that I belong to a couple other internet lists just like this one, with fewer problems, less argumentative posters (typical pilot egos I guess) and they are also free. They utilize sponsors on the websites as well as classified areas etc. Check them out if you'd like. http://www.rennlist.org/ These lists are Porsche based, so owners with money are not the issue on either this list or that one. Perhaps Matt should enlist the help of John Dunkle of Rennlist fame (German for Racelist) as to how to make a list like this work while still generating money. John is an extremely nice guy, and he fixed the multiple post problem years ago. I am sure he would help Matt out. Rennlist, like matronics, hosts over 35 specific lists....trouble free. Also, being that most on this list support Matt's business in some way by purchasing parts...it is not like Matronics has gone unnoticed. Rennlist doesn't sell any Porsche related stuff...just making money on the sponsors. The sponsor words at the bottom of each Rennlist post take up far less room then all the Matronics stuff at the bottom of this one. This list is a great resource, don't get me wrong, but is neither unique in it's exchange of knowledge, nor infallible in it's delivery of it. Like Scott at Van's said...there are seeds of knowledge in here, but mostly its just fertilizer. And as others on this list have said, the whining gets a bit old. Bill > > Al, > > Rather than the constantly degrading those that have not contributed and > acting like a victim, why don't you just change the system? If it's that > important than design the subscription as a fee based service up front. I > personally use a lot of information on the internet without paying AND I pay > for services that I value as well. > > You shouldn't condemn people for using a free service if it's presented as > such. In a nutshell - Quit whining and do whatever needs to be done to keep > the list alive..... > > Bob Waalkes > RV-8 Emp. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Al Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 11:00 AM > Subject: RV-List: Last Call............ > > > > > > Well today is the last day for you to make your List contribution in > November. > > Unfortunately I think that we have fallen short of past years donations. > I > > have a challenge for all of those who didn't think they needed to make a > > contribution. With the exception of some old timers who have contributed > > both knowledge and money in the past and who maybe don't have a need to be > > on the list anymore and are pretty much just lurking for whatever reason, > > why would the rest of you think that you don't need to make a > contribution? > > Why do you subscribe to the list and basically say it's worthless by your > > actions? I mean please tell the rest of us by what yardstick you measure > > value? Do you subscribe to any aviation magazines? Do you belong to any > > aviation organizations? Don't you pay for those publications and > > memberships with associated publications? Do they make available to you > > nearly instantaneous responses to your questions? Are they as > knowledgeable > > about RV aircraft as the people on this list are? What is your value > > system? Curious minds (and contributors) want to know. I don't mean to > > make you feel bad about yourself (yes I do!) but what are you thinking? I > > have come to the conclusion that most if not all the people who haven't > > made any contribution at all just delete these pleas without even opening > > them because they know I'm right and it's hard to face the truth. So if > > your reading this right now I want to take this opportunity to personally > > thank you for making your contribution because you probably made one and > if > > your one of the two or three who haven't made a contribution yet and still > > have the guts to read this, please make your contribution > > today.......Thanks........Al > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Last Call............
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Correction, it was Ken that said that. Sorry Bill > Like Scott at Van's said...there are seeds of knowledge in > here, but mostly its just fertilizer. And as others on this list have said, > the whining gets a bit old. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: RV-8 Incident - Critters on the RWY
Date: Nov 30, 2000
That's good practice! I'm a young timer but I listen to old timers. Sometimes they know what they're talking about. Buzzing the runway is a good idea. Only problem is the cows around our airport are used to airplanes and aren't spooked by them! -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA Network Administrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 -----Original Message----- From: Donald Mei [mailto:don_mei(at)hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:42 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Incident - Critters on the RWY I've just started flying my RV at night, so of course all the old salts have been offering me free advice. Some of which is worth what I've paid for it, and some of which is INVALUABLE. I fly out of Chester CT, 3B9. A well kept, but small airport. In the evenings, particularly in the winter it can go hours between any takeoffs or landings. One guy suggested that when ariving in the evening that I make a low pass over the runway before landing. He said it would allow me to inspect the RWY and would also most likely scare away any Deer that may be loitering on the runway or around its edges. Just a thought. Regards, Don Mei N92CT RV-4 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2000
From: Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Last Call............
I've been holding off on putting my two cents in on this matter, as I didn't want to alienate anyone, but I couldn't contain myself any longer. The 'whining', as both Bob & Bill put it, does get extremely old, extremely quickly. Like instantly, on the first message. I have no problem in paying for goods and services of value to me, that I understood to be for sale from the get-go. On the other hand, I have no intention of paying for a service purported to be 'free', regardless of the value of the list to me and my project (signal to noise ratio notwithstanding). I'd rather do without it entirely, particularly as there are now other choices available. The signal to noise is substantially better on the rv8list, which is entirely free, as are all the eGroups. The small ads inserted into the messages are easily skipped over and no more annoying than the Matronics footers on rv-list messages. For myself, the free eGroups list(s) and Doug Reeves' exceptional, free website (supported, I believe, by advertising fees) are excellent (and usually superior) alternatives to the rv-list. If Matt feels that he needs some outside funding to support the list and to compensate him for his time (certainly deserved), then he should begin charging for list access. That will instantly separate the proverbial wheat from the chaff. All that aside, I view being accosted in my email for donations for a 'free' service (to say nothing about being repeatedly denigrated for my belief that 'free' services should be FREE or cease to advertise themselves as such) to be as intrusive and aggravating as unsolicited telemarketing calls. True, one can delete the offending email, just as one can hang up on the telemarketer, but it's still annoying. Ken Balch Bill Shook wrote: > > I would also like to add that I belong to a couple other internet lists just > like this one, with fewer problems, less argumentative posters (typical > pilot egos I guess) and they are also free. They utilize sponsors on the > websites as well as classified areas etc. Check them out if you'd like. > http://www.rennlist.org/ These lists are Porsche based, so owners with > money are not the issue on either this list or that one. Perhaps Matt > should enlist the help of John Dunkle of Rennlist fame (German for Racelist) > as to how to make a list like this work while still generating money. John > is an extremely nice guy, and he fixed the multiple post problem years ago. > I am sure he would help Matt out. Rennlist, like matronics, hosts over 35 > specific lists....trouble free. Also, being that most on this list support > Matt's business in some way by purchasing parts...it is not like Matronics > has gone unnoticed. Rennlist doesn't sell any Porsche related stuff...just > making money on the sponsors. The sponsor words at the bottom of each > Rennlist post take up far less room then all the Matronics stuff at the > bottom of this one. This list is a great resource, don't get me wrong, but > is neither unique in it's exchange of knowledge, nor infallible in it's > delivery of it. Like Scott at Van's said...there are seeds of knowledge in > here, but mostly its just fertilizer. And as others on this list have said, > the whining gets a bit old. > > Bill > > > > > Al, > > > > Rather than the constantly degrading those that have not contributed and > > acting like a victim, why don't you just change the system? If it's that > > important than design the subscription as a fee based service up front. I > > personally use a lot of information on the internet without paying AND I > pay > > for services that I value as well. > > > > You shouldn't condemn people for using a free service if it's presented as > > such. In a nutshell - Quit whining and do whatever needs to be done to > keep > > the list alive..... > > > > Bob Waalkes > > RV-8 Emp. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Al Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 11:00 AM > > Subject: RV-List: Last Call............ > > > > > > > > > > Well today is the last day for you to make your List contribution in > > November. > > > Unfortunately I think that we have fallen short of past years donations. > > I > > > have a challenge for all of those who didn't think they needed to make a > > > contribution. With the exception of some old timers who have contributed > > > both knowledge and money in the past and who maybe don't have a need to > be > > > on the list anymore and are pretty much just lurking for whatever > reason, > > > why would the rest of you think that you don't need to make a > > contribution? > > > Why do you subscribe to the list and basically say it's worthless by > your > > > actions? I mean please tell the rest of us by what yardstick you measure > > > value? Do you subscribe to any aviation magazines? Do you belong to any > > > aviation organizations? Don't you pay for those publications and > > > memberships with associated publications? Do they make available to you > > > nearly instantaneous responses to your questions? Are they as > > knowledgeable > > > about RV aircraft as the people on this list are? What is your value > > > system? Curious minds (and contributors) want to know. I don't mean to > > > make you feel bad about yourself (yes I do!) but what are you thinking? > I > > > have come to the conclusion that most if not all the people who haven't > > > made any contribution at all just delete these pleas without even > opening > > > them because they know I'm right and it's hard to face the truth. So if > > > your reading this right now I want to take this opportunity to > personally > > > thank you for making your contribution because you probably made one and > > if > > > your one of the two or three who haven't made a contribution yet and > still > > > have the guts to read this, please make your contribution > > > today.......Thanks........Al ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: Wires through the firewall
Date: Nov 30, 2000
> Interesting technique. I thought about this approach but I was concerned > about the sharp little edges of the fireshelds cutting into the wires. How > did you overcome this since they have a fixed 1/2 inch diameter that is > almost the same size as the hole in the grommet when stretched? Jim, I'm at work and can't check the dimensions of the grommets or shields I'm using. Van's has the grommets vs. shields all worked out so that the shield allows sufficient clearance for any/all wires coming out? This is all laid out in the Accessory Catalog. When doing final fitting if the shields get too close to the wires I would simply trim them back a bit. Anyone have a better idea? Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500, painting www.rv-8.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2000
From: bcbraem(at)home.com
Subject: Re: RV6-List: RV6 slider track fairing
One of our builders just did one nicely on an "English Wheel". I assume you're talking about the bottom/rear part of the fairing that needs a compund curve to fit the fuselage. Boyd Venice, FL > > --> RV6-List message posted by: "Bezinque, David" > > How do you bend the slider track fairing? I have tried using a small bending > brake, but the bends are too close together to fit in the brake. Is there a > better way? > > Dave Bezinque > RV6 QB S/N3499 > > - > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2000
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV6-List: RV6 slider track fairing
--- bcbraem(at)home.com wrote: > --> RV6-List message posted by: bcbraem(at)home.com > > One of our builders just did one nicely on an "English Wheel". I > assume > you're talking about the bottom/rear part of the fairing that needs a > compund curve to fit the fuselage. > > Boyd He's referring to the cover bridging the rear skirts and covers the sliding track on the top of the fuselage behind the canopy. One of our number has made these in the past, I understand. I've been watching this thread as I will need to do this very soon. Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Canopy (could you guess?) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: paul johns <johnsy(at)tpg.com.au>
Subject: weight and balance
Hi, Have an RV6 completed and would like to know some other aircraft weights for the mains and tailwheel. Ours has an alloy V8 and is a little bit nose heavy. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net>
Subject: Re: Wires through the firewall
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Jim, You might consider the use of a cannon plug for all those smaller wires to/from the engine. A single disconnect here would save a lot of grief if you ever have to pull the engine for any reason. For example, Allied electronics, Inc is a source for lots of goodies. (www.alliedelec.com) Tom Barnes -6 electrical ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 8:28 AM Subject: RV-List: Wires through the firewall > > All, > > I need some advice regarding how folks are dealing with the ever increasing > number of wires that need to pass through the firewall. Particularly for > those of you who have engine monitors like the RMI and the VM1000. At last > count I have 15 large pair of sensor and primer wires that need to pass > through. Add to this grounding strap and starter contactor and were > talking about quite a bundle of wires. I currently have four one inch > holes filled with the standard 3/8 inch hole grommet / fire shield combo > but this just barely scratches the surface. > > Thanks, > > - Jim Andrews > RV-8A ( cowling and FWF ) > O360 A1A Sensenich 85 > N89JA reserved > http://www.homestead.com/RV8A/files/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Berryhill" <dwberryhill(at)home.com>
Subject: RV Aerobatics
Date: Nov 30, 2000
I see that Van's doesn't recommend any negative g aerobatics in the RV's (but says that some mild positive g aeros are o.k.). Is this due to the structural limitations of the planes or because of the fuel and/or oil systems? Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV Aerobatics
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: Nov 30, 2000
11/30/2000 05:32:44 PM Dave, Negative Gs are OK, up to -3 as long as your prepared for the consequences. This means of course, inverted fuel system ( flop tube ) , fuel injection, inverted oil system, blah blah blah... I'm just planing on doing the gentleman acro in my 8 which is limited to positive Gs only. If I like what I see, then, I will spring for all the goodies to make it more interesting. With my weak stomach and a wife that HATES acro, I will probably just stick with what I have. - Jim Andrews RV-8A ( cowling & FWF ) O-360 A1A Sensenich 85 N89JA reserved http://www.homestead.com/RV8A/files/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Wires through the firewall
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Cannon (sp?) plugs look like a great idea. How about a hint as to how to find them in the catalog the link pointed to. I tried cannon and plug - unless I did the search wrong...I'm willing to learn! Ralph Capen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: weight and balance
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Paul, My -6 weighed 1057 # with an O-320/Hartzell CS prop, VFR instruments, S-Cowling, Full paint fairings. I believe the tail weighed 60 #. Rick Caldwell -6 162 hrs Melbourne, FL From: paul johns <JOHNSY(at)TPG.COM.AU> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com To: rv-list Subject: RV-List: weight and balance Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 09:38:32 +0000 -- RV-List message posted by: paul johns Hi, Have an RV6 completed and would like to know some other aircraft weights for the mains and tailwheel. Ours has an alloy V8 and is a little bit nose heavy. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: weight and balance
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Paul, I can't help you with the tail dragger, but my rotary powered RV-6A has the following W&B Weight and Balance for RV-6A N494BW Design CG Range FWD 68.7 AFT 76.8 C.G. Component Arm Weight Moment Right Wheel 84.25 420 35385 Left Wheel 84.125 420 35332.5 Nose Wheel 28.5 330 9405 Fuel 70 0 0 Pilot 87.4 0 0 Passenger 87.4 0 0 Baggage 117 0 0 CG Empty Weight 68.48 1170 80122.5 As you can see, I weight roughly 100 lbs heavier than a light VFR RV-6A (full IFR) and my empy C.G is slight forward of the design limit. Van's expressed no concerned over the slight forward C.G, were more concerned about the weight. I also had two 25 AH Concord RG batteries (44 lbs total)which I have since replace with two Odyssedy batters (total 30 lbs). As predicted by a forward C.G the aircraft is very stable, probably slightly slower, and stalls at 58 indicated. No problem on the flare (plenty of elevator autority for that). I have since had the aircraft painted which probably put more weight toward the tail which I suspect probably brings the bird just inside the design limit. The aircraft exceeds its gross weight before it exceeds its aft C.G design limit. Hope this helps. Ed Anderson Matthews, NC RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered ----- Original Message ----- From: "paul johns" <johnsy(at)tpg.com.au> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 4:38 AM Subject: RV-List: weight and balance > > Hi, > Have an RV6 completed and would like to know some other aircraft weights > for the mains and tailwheel. Ours has an alloy V8 and is a little bit > nose heavy. > Paul > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2000
From: Rich <houndsfour(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: State taxs
Hi all, I have a question for the Illinois RVers. When a friend of mine started to register his Glass Star with the FAA, he received a form to fill out before he can register the airplane in Ill., this form it turns out is a TAX DUE form for aircraft. My question is, Have any of you Ill. builders paid the "sales tax". If not did you register your airplane? I'm at the point of sending in my paper work to the feds. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Rich Need an inspection and good weather for first flight ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Subject: Re: weight and balance
> empty C.G is slight forward of the design limit. Van's > expressed no concerned over the slight forward C.G, were more concerned > about the weight. My FAA man almost wouldn't sign off my 6A because the empty CG was slightly forward of the design limit. I convinced him that this was only an operational problem if it was being flown by a pilot whose weight did not load the airplane within the envelope. As I recall, the numbers we ran hat day showed that any pilot heavier than about forty pounds brought the CG aft sufficiently. Neither of us knew any jockey types with a private certificate who weighed under 40 pounds, so he signed me off. I was not playing any Clintonesque word-games with the regs by pointing this out to the Fed; the point is that the airplane, as loaded, must be between the fwd and aft limits for c.g. An enmpty CG forward of the design limit is not an issue unless you attempt to fly the plane with no one aboard. Only persons who improperly hand-prop an airplane by themselves are likekly to attempt such a flight. ;-) Am I right about this? Run a W&B calcualtion with a pilot in the seat and I'll bet you come out fine. Bill Boyd RV-6A O-320/FP Sensenich Hop-Along Airfield - 12VA Clifton Forge, VA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike1769(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Subject: Re: Left Hand Drill Bits
Snap On tools sell them. They are primarily used to drill out broken bolts ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rv660wm(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Subject: Re: Wires through the firewall
In a message dated 11/30/00 1:34:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com writes: > Interesting technique. I thought about this approach but I was concerned > about the sharp little edges of the fireshelds cutting into the wires. How > did you overcome this since they have a fixed 1/2 inch diameter that is > almost the same size as the hole in the grommet when stretched? I got mine thru two holes and I think I have everything plus a few items that you have except no primer lines. I cut a one inch hole with the the large unibit (It is scary to use these high dollar items on stainless, but a very experienced builder said it would not dull them and it does not appear to dull it) and then wrapped my wires as tight as possible in a peice of firesleeve. Stuffed all this into a hard plastic peice of an old filler tube off a plastic gas can to keep the firewall from cutting the firesleeve. It seems to be working fine but only have 50 hours on it. Bernie Kerr , 6A SE Fla ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2000
From: Steve Judd <sjudd(at)ffd2.com>
Subject: Re: Last Call............)
> > I would also like to add that I belong to a couple other internet lists just Shame on you. Contributing to Matt has nothing to do with some imaginary legal contract, or abstract philosophical concept. Regardless of how many pretend lawyers try to parse the meaning of the word "free", Matt is not some charity that exists for the benefit of a few RV builders, and the rv-list does not simply exist on its own. Donating to Matt is a way of expressing appreciation for all the _hard work_ he does for the list -- for the RV community. And it is more than that. The list is a kind of community, that exists because of the voluntary contributions of the members of the community. Some people contribute their time, some contribute their expertise, some contribute humor and good cheer, and at least some contribute a modest amount of money. "Voluntary" and "Contribution" are the key ideas here. Finally, whereas Al's posts have been witty and noble, the only whining I've seen is from three sanctimonious cheapskates who don't seem to realize just how foolish they've made themselves look in front of hundreds, if not thousands, of RV builders. Disgusted, -Steve Go right ahead and archive ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AV8TURDON(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Subject: Re: Last Call............
Well, said. And I totally agree. Too many cry babies. Must be the younger spoiled generation. Don (63) Flying Rv6 Past contributor ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: weight and balance
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Ed, I am grateful to you for posting your W&B numbers as there is something in Van's W&B section that has been bothering me greatly ever since I performed my W&B a couple of months ago. In my manual's section on W&B, designated 6S14.DOC 5-21-97, p 14-6, the distance between nose wheel and main wheels is d = (84.125 + 84.25)/2 - 28.56 = 55.63 inches. I note that you have a slanted wing that EXACTLY matches Van's slanted-wing example, so I must assume that you used Van's values out of the manual rather than measuring your plane. We (helper and I) instead measured the distance between my mains and nosewheel (axle center to axle center) and obtained a value of 54.69 inches. I estimate my probable measurement error at plus or minus 1/16 inch -- we took took care to do the measurement carefully. My wife and I just did a quick-and-dirty measurement as a reality check and we obtained 54.56 inches using only one main wheel, so I feel my original value is probably correct to within the stated error. My wife and I did not take the time to level the longerons for our Q&D measurement tonight, so I feel that this is a contributor to the source of the discrepancy between original and latest measurements. I therefore assume that there is a one-inch error in Van's example W&B. This may be attributable to the "new" nosegear on the 6A or simple measurement error on the part of Van's. My point is that one can incur considerable error in the calculation of W&B by using Van's worksheet as opposed to measuring it on your plane. Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 16 hours Hampshire, IL C38 -----Original Message----- From: Ed Anderson <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> Date: Thursday, November 30, 2000 6:20 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: weight and balance > >Paul, > I can't help you with the tail dragger, but my rotary powered RV-6A has >the following W&B > > Weight and Balance for RV-6A N494BW > Design CG Range FWD 68.7 AFT 76.8 > C.G. > Component Arm Weight Moment >Right Wheel 84.25 420 35385 >Left Wheel 84.125 420 35332.5 >Nose Wheel 28.5 330 9405 >Fuel 70 0 0 >Pilot 87.4 0 0 >Passenger 87.4 0 0 >Baggage 117 0 0 > CG Empty Weight > 68.48 1170 80122.5 > > >As you can see, I weight roughly 100 lbs heavier than a light VFR RV-6A >(full IFR) and my empy C.G is slight forward of the design limit. Van's >expressed no concerned over the slight forward C.G, were more concerned >about the weight. I also had two 25 AH Concord RG batteries (44 lbs >total)which I have since replace with two Odyssedy batters (total 30 lbs). > > As predicted by a forward C.G the aircraft is very stable, probably >slightly slower, and stalls at 58 indicated. No problem on the flare >(plenty of elevator autority for that). I have since had the aircraft >painted which probably put more weight toward the tail which I suspect >probably brings the bird just inside the design limit. The aircraft exceeds >its gross weight before it exceeds its aft C.G design limit. > > >Hope this helps. > >Ed Anderson >Matthews, NC >RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: Wires through the firewall
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Try Amp as mfg and circular connector as product. Cannon (sp?) plugs look like a great idea. How about a hint as to how to find them in the catalog the link pointed to. I tried cannon and plug - unless I did the search wrong...I'm willing to learn! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2000
From: bramsec <bramsec(at)idirect.com>
Subject: Re: weight and balance
Paul My RV6, unpainted, basic instrumentation, O320-D2J, wood prop. Both main gear 475 lbs, tail wheel 65 lbs. Regards Peter paul johns wrote: > > Hi, > Have an RV6 completed and would like to know some other aircraft weights > for the mains and tailwheel. Ours has an alloy V8 and is a little bit > nose heavy. > Paul > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV8DRIVER(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Subject: Re: Left Hand Drill Bits
Snap On tools sell them. They are primarily used to drill out broken bolts<< Also to drill holes for left hand taps. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvmils(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 30, 2000
Subject: Re: O360 Engine
In a message dated 11/30/2000 9:44:27 AM Central Standard Time, menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com writes: > and ability to burn 91 octane in it and > still make rated power. I think some O-320's can burn 91 octane without > putting the low compression pistons in it (and taking the subsequent loss > of 10 hp) but I'm not sure about this. > > Hey Scott, I haven't heard this before and just wondering what you mean by it. Thanks, Carey Mills ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2000
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: RV6-List: RV6 slider track fairing
No part of the rear skirt "needs" a compound curve if you install the canopy correctly. If you are talking about the cover for the track, all you need is a piece of scrap AL, a pair of flanging pliers and about 20 min. Dave bcbraem(at)home.com wrote: > > One of our builders just did one nicely on an "English Wheel". I assume > you're talking about the bottom/rear part of the fairing that needs a > compund curve to fit the fuselage. > > Boyd > Venice, FL > > > > --> RV6-List message posted by: "Bezinque, David" > > > > How do you bend the slider track fairing? I have tried using a small bending > > brake, but the bends are too close together to fit in the brake. Is there a > > better way? > > > > Dave Bezinque > > RV6 QB S/N3499 > > > > - > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2000
From: Mark Gilbert <mgilbert(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unibit in an Airdrill
If I use a unibit in an airdrill I get a sloppy hole drilling sheet AL ; the bit thrashes around in the hole because it does not stay centered. Is there a simple technique for using a unibit with an aridrill or is the unibit made only for a drill press? I seem to have problems with the simplest things. Mark Gilbert RV 6A - Wings - getting ready to drill rib holes for the electrical conduit Sacramento ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JDaniel343(at)AOL.COM
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Wires through the firewall
Try the Digi-Key catalog. Look for AMP circular connectors. I must have about 6 of them in the sub-panel. Should make removing the panel a piece of cake. John Danielson Engine installation, finishing kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JDaniel343(at)AOL.COM
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Unibit in an Airdrill
The secret is to have the drill turn slowly. I usually use my cordless drill with the unibits, although my Sioux 1/4" works well because it has a great trigger action. John Danielson Engine installation, finishing kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Wires through the firewall
Date: Dec 01, 2000
i've found these aluminum bulkhead fittings that are used in commercial machine cabinets. they have about a 3/4" inside diameter. there is a knurled cap on the exterior side that compresses a rubber insert to create the seal and hold anything passing through. the rubber inserts come in different sizes and are all that come in contact with the cables or wires. i wasn't happy with the ole grommet and shield setup either, so i just went to a local machine shop and asked what they were using. i figured machine cabinets have to vibrate. these fitting do weigh a little bit more and weren't cheap at 12$ a pop. my wiring is all done and i think i used 6 fittings for everything. i don't have any left over but if anyone needs a manufacture or part number i'd be glad to look just drop me an e-mail.... capsteve(at)adelphia.net Steven DiNieri > Interesting technique. I thought about this approach but I was concerned > about the sharp little edges of the fireshelds cutting into the wires. How > did you overcome this since they have a fixed 1/2 inch diameter that is > almost the same size as the hole in the grommet when stretched? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Unibit in an Airdrill
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Most of the unibits I've encountered are of the single flute variety. this design lends itself to an unstable path through most any material you choose, even in a press. Although I own several sized single flute unibits I bought a good double fluted one for cleaner cuts. at three times the price I'd still recommend trying one. capsteve(at)adelphia.net Steven DiNieri If I use a unibit in an airdrill I get a sloppy hole drilling sheet AL ; the bit thrashes around in the hole because it does not stay centered. Is there a simple technique for using a unibit with an aridrill or is the unibit made only for a drill press? I seem to have problems with the simplest things. Mark Gilbert ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Lumpkin" <tlump(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: K & N Fuel Filters for Sale
Date: Nov 30, 2000
I have two, brand new, un-used K & N "billet" fuel filters for sale. These are the 10 micron, cleanable filters with 3/8 tube flare fittings on either end. They are approx. 2.0" dia. X 4.0" long. I was planning to use them on my RV-4 (they fit nicely in the footwells adjacent to the front control stick), but I am using an Airflow Performance fuel injection system that already comes with a fuel filter. Therefore, the K & N filters are for sale. They cost me $60 each. I will sell BOTH for $60 plus whatever it costs to ship them to your door. Please respond off list. Ted Lumpkin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Burch" <rv6man(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV Aerobatics
Date: Nov 30, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Berryhill" <dwberryhill(at)home.com> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 6:11 PM Subject: RV-List: RV Aerobatics > > I see that Van's doesn't recommend any negative g aerobatics in the RV's > (but says that some mild positive g aeros are o.k.). Is this due to the > structural limitations of the planes or because of the fuel and/or oil > systems? > > Dave > > The plane does fine in neg. It does fly with a nose high attitude inverted. I dont do more than 2 neg. G's because I dont like the horizontal attach. If you are consdering neg G's, buy the best 5 point harness with ratchet that money can buy.Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Burch" <rv6man(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: cht probe location
Date: Nov 30, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: <ABAYMAN(at)AOL.COM> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 1:09 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: cht probe location > > Hey Scott, > > How do you post a question to the RV list? > I want to ask how to install the cht probe that > goes under a spark plug. Does it go under, > above, or in lieu of the copper plug gasket? > Just thought it would be nice to bug you! > See ya, > Don Dont use them at all! The are well known for being completely inacurate.Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: paul johns <johnsy(at)tpg.com.au>
Subject: Re: weight and balance
Rick, Thanks very much for the info. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: paul johns <johnsy(at)tpg.com.au>
Subject: Re: weight and balance
Ed, Thanks very much for the info. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: paul johns <johnsy(at)tpg.com.au>
Subject: Re: weight and balance
Peter, Thanks very much for the info. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Fw: AOPA ePilot--Vol. 2, Issue 48
Date: Dec 01, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: AOPA e-Pilot Newsletter <aopa(at)mail.0mm.com> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 3:07 AM Subject: AOPA ePilot--Vol. 2, Issue 48 > -- > AOPA ePilot Volume 2, Issue 48 December 1, 2000 --- > > AOPA values its relationship with you. If you don't want this free > newsletter, reply with the word UNSUBSCRIBE as the subject. To see > ePilot with graphics, visit > ( http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/epilot/001201epilot.html ). > > > ================================== > IN THIS ISSUE: > Premier jet hits more snags > Superior Air Parts to remain independent > Wings of Light thanks AOPA > Gorton defeated in Washington > ================================== > > ==> GA NEWS <= > > NTSB RELEASES PAYNE STEWART REPORT > The NTSB confirmed Tuesday what most had believed in the year since > the Learjet 35 carrying golfer Payne Stewart and five others > mysteriously crashed. The crash was indeed a result of a cabin > depressurization. What the NTSB is unsure of is why the crew was not > able to get supplemental oxygen after the cabin depressurized. > Following the 13-month investigation, the NTSB issued 11 safety > recommendations to the FAA, mostly centering on crew training and > ways to improve pressurization systems. In addition, NTSB Chairman > Jim Hall said that with the rapid growth in fractional and charter > operations, business jets should be treated the same as commercial > airliners when it comes to safety. For more on the investigation, see > the NTSB's Web site ( http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2000/aar0004.htm ). > > CRIPPLED SKYHAWK LANDS SAFELY AFTER MIDAIR > A Cessna 172 safely landed at West Houston Airport, Texas, following > a midair collision with a Cessna 150 on Sunday. One-third of the > 172's right wing was left hanging down by the impact. The aircraft > were flying at 2,000 feet in good visibility, NTSB officials told > "The Houston Chronicle." The pilot of the Cessna 150, 36-year-old Don > Lee of Katy, Texas, died after a wing was severed from his aircraft > by the impact. His airplane crashed along Interstate 10, just outside > of Katy. The pilot of the Cessna 172, Diana Orendorff, spotted the > Cessna 150 shortly before the impact and pulled her aircraft into a > climbing right turn, she told investigators. Aircraft owner Ed > Oppermann then took control and landed at West Houston on one wheel. > The aircraft reportedly struck at a 90-degree angle. > > PREMIER JET HITS MORE SNAGS > Raytheon Aircraft's Premier I business jet program has once again > been delayed because of holdups in the certification process. In a > November 15 Securities and Exchange Commission filing, Raytheon > Company, the aircraft company's parent, disclosed that the jet would > not receive FAA certification by the end of the year. It marks a > setback of more than two years. The company, meanwhile, has recorded > an increase in aircraft sales, to $2.4 billion in the first nine > months of this year compared to $2.1 billion over the same period in > 1999, according to the filing. Earlier this year it was revealed that > Raytheon plans to sell its aircraft unit, but no one has stepped up > to the plate yet o pay the reported $4 billion asking price. Company > officials and several potential buyers have refused to comment to > "ePilot" about the sale. To read more about Raytheon, search under > key word "Raytheon" on the SEC's Web site > ( http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/srch-edgar ). > > SUPERIOR AIR PARTS TO REMAIN INDEPENDENT > Superior Air Parts Inc. plans to remain an independent company after > a deal to sell it to Aviall Inc., a global parts distributor, fell > through last week. Under the agreement, Aviall would have bought > Superior for $43 million in cash. But since Aviall wasn't able to > secure the necessary financing commitments within the specified time, > the board of directors of Superior terminated the purchase agreement, > said James P. Wilson, chairman of the board for Superior. The company > plans to continue its growth rate with products such as the certified > Millennium pre-owned engine, the XP-360 engine, and other programs. > Superior Air Parts, headquartered in Dallas, manufactures and > distributes FAA-approved parts for piston-powered general aviation > aircraft. > > BONANZA PILOT MAKES EMERGENCY HIGHWAY LANDING > Some evening rush hour commutes are more exciting than others. Bill > Hart, 57, was heading to San Jose, California, for a business trip on > Monday when his Beech Bonanza lost power on short final to San Jose > International Airport at about 6 p.m. He had plenty of fuel and he > tried switching tanks, but there was no effect, he said. Since he was > so low to the ground, Hart notified the tower of the emergency and > looked for the nearest suitable landing site which turned out to be > an on ramp to Highway 87. Hart found out later he had dodged a high > school, homes, and moving cars in the dark. The only damage was small > dent in the leading edge of the left wing from hitting a mile marker. > With assistance from the police, the airplane was restarted, taxied > to the next off ramp, and towed to the airport by flight line > personnel. Hart said he suspects that the engine was vapor-locked. > > AIRPORT USES NEW KIND OF RUNWAY SURFACE > The Savannah-Hardin County Airport (SNH) in Tennessee is the first > general aviation airport in the nation to receive a new type of > runway surface called ultra- thin whitetopping. The 4-inch concrete > overlay was installed on the 38-year-old, 5,000-foot asphalt runway > earlier this year, giving it a whitish appearance. It's an especially > welcome sight for IFR pilots when they break out of clouds and see a > big white landing surface amid green fields. Airport officials found > that it was more expensive than an asphalt overlay but less expensive > than a total reconstruction, according to a report by the American > Concrete Pavement Association. However, when looking at maintenance > costs, it was determined that the asphalt would crack and the runway > would require a new asphalt overlay in 10 years. Airport officials > expect the robust concrete surface to last 25 years, the ACPA report > continued. The runway has already won awards and is being studied by > the government and other airports. > > For daily news updates, see AOPA Online ( http://www.aopa.org/members ). > > > ==> INSIDE AOPA <= > > AOPA TO AIR GA COMMERCIALS > AOPA will underwrite national cable TV messages promoting the > value of community airports this holiday season. The 30-second > commercials will air from December 22 through January 3 on the > Weather Channel, just as congestion and passenger disgruntlement > at major airline hub airports reach a peak. "Once again, AOPA is > action, not talk," said AOPA President Phil Boyer. "Because > defense of airports is our members' number one priority, we're > making this investment for the entire general aviation community." > For more, see AOPA Online > ( http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2000/00-4-067.html ). > > AOPA RECOGNIZES CLARK COUNTY AVIATION ASSOCIATION > AOPA President Phil Boyer gave special recognition to members of the > Clark County (Nevada) Aviation Association (CCAA) Tuesday during a > Pilot Town Meeting in Las Vegas. Boyer told the crowd of pilots that > CCAA was "working tirelessly to make things better for general aviation > in Las Vegas." CCAA and the North Las Vegas Airport (VGT) are hosting > a Community Aviation Day this Saturday (December 2) from 9 a.m. to > 2. p.m. For more, see AOPA Online > ( http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2000/00-4-069x.html ). > > WINGS OF LIGHT THANKS AOPA > Wings of Light, a nonprofit organization that helps people affected > by aviation accidents, honored AOPA this past week at a Pilot Town > Meeting in Phoenix. Andrea Waas, founder of the Phoenix-based > organization, presented a plaque to AOPA President Phil Boyer, > recognizing AOPA as an affiliate sponsor. "The support of AOPA and > other sponsors allows Wings of Light to provide our services at no > cost, and to increase awareness among the public and decision- makers > of the issues involved with aircraft accidents and the needs of those > affected," she said. > > > ==> ON CAPITOL HILL <= > > GORTON DEFEATED IN WASHINGTON > Former Democratic Rep. Maria Cantwell rallied to defeat Senate > aviation subcommittee Chairman Slade Gorton late last week and win > the last remaining Senate seat still in question at the close of the > 2000 election cycle. After all of the votes were tallied, Cantwell > held a 0.08 percent margin--just 1,953 votes more than Gorton out of > more than 2.5 million ballots cast in Washington State. As in the > presidential election in Florida, the margin of victory fell below > one-half of 1 percent, forcing an automatic recount that is expected > to be completed this week. However, the outcome will likely remain > unchanged. Cantwell took the lead late last week after a slew of > late-counted ballots, that were thought to be for Gorton, turned the > race in her favor. Gorton has not conceded the race yet, but has > indicated that he will make an announcement following the recount. > > > ==> AIRPORT SUPPORT NETWORK <= > > VOLUNTEER OF THE WEEK--CHERYL POPP > AOPA recently received member inquiries concerning possible closure > of Cincinnati-Blue Ash Airport (ISZ) in Ohio; however, Airport > Support Network volunteer Cheryl Popp reported that there is no > impending threat of closure. Popp, in conjunction with the Blue Ash > Airport Advisory Committee and the city fathers of Blue Ash, has been > working on possible acquisition of the airport from Cincinnati for > several years. Popp said that negotiations between the cities have > finally begun. > > SOLBERG UNDERGOES CONDEMNATION PROCEEDINGS > Readington Township has escalated its efforts to prevent improvement > or further development at Solberg Airport (N51) in New Jersey. > Airport Support Network volunteer Sim Hitzel has attended local > meetings and has been reporting regularly to AOPA on these latest > efforts by the township to strangle the airport and stifle growth. > The battles between the airport and the township have been ongoing. > In its largest salvo of the attack, the township is attempting to > wrestle control (and ownership) of the airport through a state > condemnation process. Hitzel has also worked diligently with the > airport's owners as well as local pilots to counter the attack. New > Jersey pilots stay tuned! What happens at Solberg could migrate to > other privately owned airports in the state under sanction of state > legislation. > > To learn more about the Airport Support Network, visit > ( http://www.aopa.org/asn/ ). > > > ==> AOPA AIR SAFETY FOUNDATION NEWS <= > > DEADLINE NEARS FOR DONATION DEDUCTIONS > There is only a month left to receive tax deductions for charitable > contributions for this year. The AOPA Air Safety Foundation has > programs and gifts for every level of contribution. ASF can help you > put your hard-earned money to work for aviation safety. Call > 800/955-9115 and ask for Art Keefe or Bob Milanchus or visit AOPA > Online ( http://www.aopa.org/asf/development/ ). > > > ==> QUIZ ME! <= > > Here's a question asked by an AOPA member last week of our AOPA > technical specialists. Test your knowledge. > > Q: The question was recently put to me: "Why does a red morning sky > denote bad weather during the day?" I have not been able to find the > answer and wondered if you could. A: We all probably know the weather > saying, "Red sky at night, sailors delight. Red sky in morning, > sailors take warning." A red sky at sunset or early evening indicates > clouds to the east, with clearing on the western horizon allowing the > setting sun to be seen. Unsettled weather or storminess may have > passed. A red sky in the morning indicates clouds to the west as the > sun is rising, which may advance eastward and bring bad weather. For > more weather lore, see > ( http://classroomatsea.noaa.gov/shipops/rhymes.html ). > > Got a technical question for AOPA specialists? Call 800/872-2672, or > e-mail to ( mailto:inforequest(at)aopa.org ). Send comments on our Quiz > Me! questions to ( mailto:epilot(at)aopa.org ). > > > ==> COMING UP IN "AOPA PILOT" <= > > Fly the U-2 in thin air, take the funky Helio Courier around the golf > course, and shove the throttles forward in the Cessna CJ2 in the > January issue of "AOPA Pilot." It will be mailed December 16. > > > ==> ePilot CALENDAR <= > > WEEKEND FLYING DESTINATIONS > In response to member requests, destinations will be posted at least > one week in advance. CARMEL, CALIFORNIA. The forty-first annual Santa > and Mrs. Claus Fly-In takes place December 9. Carmel Valley Airport > (O62), 831/659-0860, is the host airport. Call the airport for event > information. > > DALLAS, TEXAS. The Frontiers of Flight Museum hosts North Texas > Aviation's "Contributions to Winning WWII" December 15. Dallas Love > Field (DAL), 214/670-6073, is the host airport. Call 214/350-3600 for > event information. > > COLLEGE PARK, MARYLAND. The College Park Aviation Museum hosts > Santa's Fly-In December 9. Activities for children. Call 301/864-6029 > for event information. > > WEST CHESTER, PENNSYLVANIA. The American Helicopter Museum of > Education hosts Lunch With Santa December 9 at Brandywine Airport > (N99), 610/692-6100. Call 610/436-8180 for event information, or > visit the Web site ( http://www.helicoptermuseum.org/events.htm ). > > For more airport details, see AOPA's Airport Directory > ( http://www.aopa.org/members/airports ). For more events, see > ( http://www.aopa.org/pilot/calendar.html ). > > ASF FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR REFRESHER CLINICS > (All clinics start at 7:30 a.m.) > The next AOPA Air Safety Foundation Flight Instructor Refresher > Clinics are scheduled in Chicago and Denver, December 9 and 10. > Clinics are scheduled in Reston, Virginia, Lincoln, Nebraska, and > Orlando, Florida, December 16 and 17. For the Flight Instructor > Refresher Clinic schedule, see > ( http://www.aopa.org/asf/schedules/aboutfirc.html ). > > ASF SAFETY SEMINARS > The next AOPA ASF Safety Seminars are scheduled in St. Louis, > January 8; Springfield, Missouri, January 9; Kansas City, Missouri, > January 10; and Wichita, January 11. For more information see > ( http://www.aopa.org/asf/schedules/sssite.html ). > > ASF PINCH-HITTER GROUND-SCHOOL COURSES > (Pinch-Hitter courses start at 9:30 a.m.) > The next Pinch-Hitter(R) Ground School will take place > December 17 in Orlando, Florida. For more Pinch-Hitter courses, > see ( http://www.aopa.org/asf/schedules/pinch.html ). > > AOPA PILOT TOWN MEETINGS > Featuring AOPA President Phil Boyer > (7:30 p.m.; admission is free) > The next Pilot Town Meetings are in Tallahassee, Florida, January 30; > Fort Lauderdale, Florida, January 31; and Tampa, Florida, February 1. > For more information on Pilot Town Meetings, see > ( http://www.aopa.org/prez/ ). > > For comments on calendar items or to make submissions, contact > Julie S. Walker at ( mailto:julie.walker(at)aopa.org ). > > > ==> YOUR WEEKEND WEATHER <= > See ( http://www.aopa.org/members/wx/ ). > > ******************************* > ePilot SPONSORS > > Garmin International > ( http://wwwrd.0mm.com/AOP066001 ) > > AOPA Aircraft Financing Program: Apply online today! > ( http://wwwrd.0mm.com/AOP066005 ) > > Comm 1: Radio Simulator VFR and IFR Practice 2-way communications > with ATC on your home computer today! > ( http://wwwrd.0mm.com/AOP066007 ) > > Pilot Insurance Center -- The lowest life insurance rates for pilots > -- PERIOD. Get an online quote and compare to see how much you can > save. ( http://wwwrd.0mm.com/AOP066008 ) > > Comair Aviation Academy: One Dream...One School. > ( http://wwwrd.0mm.com/AOP066002 ) > > AOPA Certificate of Deposit Special: > ( http://wwwrd.0mm.com/AOP066003 ) > > ******************************* > > ==> CONTACTING ePilot <= > Got news? Contact "ePilot" editor Nathan A. Ferguson at > ( mailto:nate.ferguson(at)aopa.org ). > > Having difficulty using this service? Visit the "ePilot Frequently > Asked Questions" now at > ( http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/epilot/faq.html ) or write > to: ( mailto:epilot(at)aopa.org ). > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: reply to this e-mail, a free weekly newsletter on > general aviation, with the word UNSUBSCRIBE as the subject. Do not > include a message. To SUBSCRIBE: visit > ( http://www.aopa.org/members/epilot.html ). > > > AOPA, 421 Aviation Way, Frederick, Maryland 21701. > Telephone: 800/USA-AOPA or 301/695-2000 > Copyright (c) 2000. Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association. > > You are subscribed as tcervin(at)valkyrie.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fesenbek, Gary" <Gary.Fesenbek(at)marykay.com>
Subject: Wires through the firewall
Date: Dec 01, 2000
I need some advice regarding how folks are dealing with the ever increasing number of wires that need to pass through the firewall. I approached this problem by putting two 21 pin cannon plugs through the firewall. I have one on the right and one on the left. My aircraft is finished and I have been flying it for a year now and I only used about half of the capacity for each side. Plenty of room for expansion. Another thing that is neat about a cannon plug is that you can build a test plug to insert between the male and female on the firewall to troubleshoot any problems that you have with a volt/ampmeter. Although I haven't had any real problems to put this to the test after flying, during initial installation it was very handy. Another benefit is that if I am looking for my oil temp sensor wire, I don't have to search through a bundle of wires to find it. I know it is in the right plug at pin 7. Hope this helps. By the by, I got my plugs from Digikey. Look for them in the RV yeller pages. Consider using the fire-resistant ones for the firewall. Use one on the radio stack and it will make removal of the radio stack very very easy. Gary RV6A Dallas, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Unibit in an Airdrill
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Unibits like to be run slow. Perhaps that will help. I use mine in an electric hand drill and keep the revs low. Steve Soule Huntington, VT RV-6A various finishing details -----Original Message----- If I use a unibit in an airdrill I get a sloppy hole drilling sheet AL ; the bit thrashes around in the hole because it does not stay centered. Is there a simple technique for using a unibit with an aridrill or is the unibit made only for a drill press? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us>
Subject: VM 1000
Date: Dec 01, 2000
When you install the VM1000 do spring for the extra set of terminals as they recommend to simplify future maintenance. Its a shame that Vision Micro doesn't just add $75 or so to the price of the unit and include them. Their maintenance tech suggested this tip to me and it sure makes the wiring easier! Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 16 Hours Hampshire, IL C38 Dennis, I have a VM 1000 on backorder from Chief. Do I order the "extra set of terminals" from Chief or do I buy them from Vision Microsystems? Do you have any other insights about the VM 1000 and its installation? Thanks. Ken Harrill RV-6, firewall stuff Columbia, SC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: weight and balance
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Dennis, You are correct in that I used Van's numbers on the worksheet. This was with the old nose gear strut. As you point out probably not good to assume anything about arm distance in W&B caculations. Because I was expecting to be slightly nose heavy and the calculations came out that way I did not pursue it further. Getting the Longerons level does make a difference. Ed Subject: Re: RV-List: weight and balance > > Ed, > > I am grateful to you for posting your W&B numbers as there is something in > Van's W&B section that has been bothering me greatly ever since I performed > my W&B a couple of months ago. In my manual's section on W&B, designated > 6S14.DOC 5-21-97, p 14-6, the distance between nose wheel and main wheels is > d = (84.125 + 84.25)/2 - 28.56 = 55.63 inches. I note that you have a > slanted wing that EXACTLY matches Van's slanted-wing example, so I must > assume that you used Van's values out of the manual rather than measuring > your plane. > > We (helper and I) instead measured the distance between my mains and > nosewheel (axle center to axle center) and obtained a value of 54.69 inches. > I estimate my probable measurement error at plus or minus 1/16 inch -- we > took took care to do the measurement carefully. My wife and I just did a > quick-and-dirty measurement as a reality check and we obtained 54.56 inches > using only one main wheel, so I feel my original value is probably correct > to within the stated error. My wife and I did not take the time to level > the longerons for our Q&D measurement tonight, so I feel that this is a > contributor to the source of the discrepancy between original and latest > measurements. > > I therefore assume that there is a one-inch error in Van's example W&B. > This may be attributable to the "new" nosegear on the 6A or simple > measurement error on the part of Van's. My point is that one can incur > considerable error in the calculation of W&B by using Van's worksheet as > opposed to measuring it on your plane. > > Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 16 hours > Hampshire, IL C38 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ed Anderson <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Thursday, November 30, 2000 6:20 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: weight and balance > > > > > >Paul, > > I can't help you with the tail dragger, but my rotary powered RV-6A has > >the following W&B > > > > Weight and Balance for RV-6A N494BW > > Design CG Range FWD 68.7 AFT 76.8 > > C.G. > > Component Arm Weight Moment > >Right Wheel 84.25 420 35385 > >Left Wheel 84.125 420 35332.5 > >Nose Wheel 28.5 330 9405 > >Fuel 70 0 0 > >Pilot 87.4 0 0 > >Passenger 87.4 0 0 > >Baggage 117 0 0 > > CG Empty Weight > > 68.48 1170 80122.5 > > > > > >As you can see, I weight roughly 100 lbs heavier than a light VFR RV-6A > >(full IFR) and my empy C.G is slight forward of the design limit. Van's > >expressed no concerned over the slight forward C.G, were more concerned > >about the weight. I also had two 25 AH Concord RG batteries (44 lbs > >total)which I have since replace with two Odyssedy batters (total 30 lbs). > > > > As predicted by a forward C.G the aircraft is very stable, probably > >slightly slower, and stalls at 58 indicated. No problem on the flare > >(plenty of elevator autority for that). I have since had the aircraft > >painted which probably put more weight toward the tail which I suspect > >probably brings the bird just inside the design limit. The aircraft > exceeds > >its gross weight before it exceeds its aft C.G design limit. > > > > > >Hope this helps. > > > >Ed Anderson > >Matthews, NC > >RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VM 1000
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: Dec 01, 2000
12/01/2000 07:16:08 AM Ken, Just did this. The Vision Microsystems part number to ask for is quantity ( 2 ) of the 2010013 and quantity (2) of the 2010012. You can order them direct from VM. The total damage less shipping is $82.50. Definitely a MUST! - Jim Andrews RV-8A ( cowling ) O-360 A1A Sensenich 85 N89JA reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Unibit in an Airdrill
Date: Dec 01, 2000
You must have either a defective bit or you are running it way too fast. A true unibit is self centering. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Gilbert" <mgilbert(at)ix.netcom.com> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:29 PM Subject: RV-List: Unibit in an Airdrill > > If I use a unibit in an airdrill I get a sloppy hole drilling sheet AL ; > the bit thrashes around in the hole because it does not stay centered. Is > there a simple technique for using a unibit with an aridrill or is the > unibit made only for a drill press? > > I seem to have problems with the simplest things. > > Mark Gilbert > RV 6A - Wings - getting ready to drill rib holes for the electrical conduit > Sacramento > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Airbatix(at)AOL.COM
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Subject: Re: On rolling of the eyes at Van's-commentary
Van and his organization have never really "got it"....they have suffered a never ending barrage of help calls, letters, emails, and a nontrivial builder "give up rate" because they refuse to make a significant investment in a complete builder's manual, accurate drawings, assembly drawings, and companion videos and/or workshops. They give you a box of parts with error riddend drawings with a "back of the napkin" manual (if you disagree, check out supporting data supplied by RANS, LANCAIR, KITFOX,etc...). This list has proven invaluable to most of us (dispite some erroneous info and flaming) because it provides absolutely essential supplemental data to van's sparse data. I have a master's degree in engineering, have restored two production aircraft, have been involved in aviation for over 25 years and I STILL have struggeld mightily (like most of us) on the construction details of my RV6a. Just check out the titles of the rv-list email entries. Many, many, many of us are asking questions about really fundamental stuff that van should already have guided us through in his documentation. Why do you think George and Becki made a bundle by sticking a camcorder on a tripod? So you Van chauvinists, don't get upset...dont flame...peace...peace. I too have met and talked with Van on several occasions and love the guy and his airplane. He might not fully understand, however, the value of the "list" because he doesn't understand why we continue to need it. Paul M ready for inspection RV6A,180,c/s ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Re: Last Call............)
Date: Dec 01, 2000
> > Finally, whereas Al's posts have been witty and noble, the only whining > I've seen is from three sanctimonious cheapskates who don't seem to > realize just how foolish they've made themselves look in front of > hundreds, if not thousands, of RV builders. > > Disgusted, > > -Steve > Thanks Steve, You wrote, in better prose than I, exactly what I was feeling. I was going to add my .02 cents but I don't see the need to continue this mean-spirited thread. I feel bad for Matt and Al. Keep your head up guys. Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 Indianapolis (105 hours) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Subject: Re: On rolling of the eyes at Van's-commentary
From: Wes Hays <whays(at)juno.com>
>The EAA has a rememberence wall, maybe this list needs a virtual >rememberence wall, remembering all the great experience that has left >this list. I can only say AMEN and well said. Wes Hays Rotan, TX RV6-A, 0-360 w/CS (Hartzell) N844WB, Flying GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Subject: Re: weight and balance
From: Wes Hays <whays(at)juno.com>
>I therefore assume that there is a one-inch error in Van's example >W&B. >This may be attributable to the "new" nosegear on the 6A or simple >measurement error on the part of Van's. Dennis, FWIW, I found the same difference when I measured the distance between my gears on my 6-A. I also figured it was due to the new nosegear. My 6A came in a bit heavy also. It is painted and basic IFR. CG is well within limits but with hefty pilots and full luggage it is right at the aft mark with the tanks empty. (I hope to be on the ground well before this happens). Main Wheel, Right = 84.5 inches aft of datum Main Wheel, Left = 84.437 inches aft of datum Nose Wheel = 30.5 inches aft of datum Fuel = 70 inches aft of datum Pilot & Passenger = 87.4 inches aft of datum Baggage = 117 inches aft of datum Right Wheel 430 84.500 36335.00 Empty C.G. Left Wheel 437 84.437 36898.97 Equals Nose Wheel 307 30.500 9363.50 70.36 Total 1174 82597.47 Wes Hays Rotan, TX RV6-A, 0-360 w/CS (Hartzell) N844WB, Flying GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Unibit in an Airdrill
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Unibit in an Airdrill Thread-Index: AcBbngp4ofQlkdKzTu+GOLfnvJgl1QAAA4iA
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
It depends on the type of unibit you have. If you have the real "Unibit" brand it will only have one cutting edge, its the one available from Avery's. Some of the cheaper ones available at hardware stores have two cutting edges; those will not make nice holes, and will wobble. Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 59 hours > -----Original Message----- > If I use a unibit in an airdrill I get a sloppy hole drilling > sheet AL ; > the bit thrashes around in the hole because it does not stay > centered. Is > there a simple technique for using a unibit with an aridrill > or is the > unibit made only for a drill press? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: "Douglas E. Bostard" <dougacft(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: RV6-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/30/00
I assume you mean the bottom skirts outside the track. I carefully bent mine by hand but if you encounter a compound curved area try a metal shrinker on that part. This is especially good for the rear (top of fuselage) skirts if they don't quite fit tightly onto the upper fus. skins aft of cockpit. If the latter are drilled an fitted and clecoed progressively from outboard to center (and trimmed aft later) it helps to actually have 3 people pulling (stretch forming) and one person drilling frame and clecoing. Hope this helps. I didn't find anyt compounds on my side skirts..shaped (bowed) them by hand. Doug ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: Fred Kunkel <rvator(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: FWIW: Left Hand Drill Bits
Drill bits are either right hand cut-right hand flutes or left hand cut-left hand flutes. Taps, reamers, & end mills can be a combination of directions, i.e., right hand cut, left hand flutes, etc. The left hand drill bit was originally developed for drilling through very thin pieces of over-lapping metal. Right hand drill bits tend to lift the pieces of metal away from each other, so the left hand cutting surface was developed to push the metal together when drilling through it. Left hand drill bits are also commonly seen on gang drills (a machine with a number of chucks spaced apart according to the work being done). If the chucks are all being driven by a common gearing mechanism, then one gear, turning right, will turn the next gear & chuck to the left, etc. As has been previously noted, left hand drill bits work very well when drilling out broken bolts & screws. Drill bits do not cut smoothly, they "slap" the metal they're cutting. Therefore, each time the drill bit goes around it's "slapping" the shank of the bolt or screw that's stuck & often will jolt it loose. If not, what could be better than drilling a hole in the center of a broken bolt & having the sides collapse inward, leaving the threads on the material intact? Ez-outs put outward pressure on the threads. Left hand drill bits are more expensive than regular drill bits, the cost being attributed to limited production & set-up costs. Hopefully this will shed some light on the subject & possibly provide a new tool that I hope no one has the requirement to use, but if so, one that will be useful. If anyone needs left hand drill bits let me know. I have several sources that undoubtedly will be cheaper than a Snap-On dealer. Blue Skies! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <pbesing(at)rmi.net>
Subject: Re: Unibit in an Airdrill
Date: Dec 01, 2000
I found that electric drills work far better with a unibit...keep it really slow, to. Your holes will turn out perfectly round and clean if you take your time. Air drills are too hard to regulate and start to quickly IMHO. Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/ Finish Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Gilbert" <mgilbert(at)ix.netcom.com> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 9:29 PM Subject: RV-List: Unibit in an Airdrill > > If I use a unibit in an airdrill I get a sloppy hole drilling sheet AL ; > the bit thrashes around in the hole because it does not stay centered. Is > there a simple technique for using a unibit with an aridrill or is the > unibit made only for a drill press? > > I seem to have problems with the simplest things. > > Mark Gilbert > RV 6A - Wings - getting ready to drill rib holes for the electrical conduit > Sacramento > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wires through the firewall
"Fesenbek, Gary" wrote: I need some advice regarding how folks are dealing with the ever increasing number of wires that need to pass through the firewall. I approached this problem by putting two 21 pin cannon plugs through the firewall. I have one on the right and one on the left. My aircraft is finished and I have been flying it for a year now and I only used about half of the capacity for each side. Plenty of room for expansion. Another thing that is neat about a cannon plug is that you can build a test plug to insert between the male and female on the firewall to troubleshoot any problems that you have with a volt/ampmeter. Although I haven't had any real problems to put this to the test after flying, during initial installation it was very handy. Another benefit is that if I am looking for my oil temp sensor wire, I don't have to search through a bundle of wires to find it. I know it is in the right plug at pin 7. Hope this helps. By the by, I got my plugs from Digikey. Look for them in the RV yeller pages. Consider using the fire-resistant ones for the firewall. Use one on the radio stack and it will make removal of the radio stack very very easy. Gary RV6A Dallas, TX --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: "Vern Darley, 11" <vern(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Need to buy an RV-6 project/tools in the SEUS
I am looking for an RV-6 project and will consider those at any stage.I prefer SE US since I'm in Atlanta so transportation will be easier. Thanks! Vern Darley 5 Perthshire Drive Peachtree City, GA 30269 w 770 487-6307 9-6 est h-770 487-5155 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
Subject: RV Aerobatics
Date: Dec 01, 2000
I've inadvertently been negative in my -8 a couple of times. Besides the engine quitting momentarily, I really didn't like the idea of ONE seat belt latch between me and having to use the parachute. What I mean is, install a backup lap belt if you plan to do negative stuff. Think about how you'd fly if you were pressed up against the canopy out of your belt, or more likely, sailing toward the ground with the canopy torn from the plane. Look at this months picture in Van's RV calendar. Nice shot of two -4's flying inverted. just my 2 cents... Bryan Jones -8 765BJ ~55-hrs Pearland, Texas -----Original Message----- From: Terry Burch [mailto:rv6man(at)earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:34 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Aerobatics ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Berryhill" <dwberryhill(at)home.com> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 6:11 PM Subject: RV-List: RV Aerobatics > > I see that Van's doesn't recommend any negative g aerobatics in the RV's > (but says that some mild positive g aeros are o.k.). Is this due to the > structural limitations of the planes or because of the fuel and/or oil > systems? > > Dave > > The plane does fine in neg. It does fly with a nose high attitude inverted. I dont do more than 2 neg. G's because I dont like the horizontal attach. If you are consdering neg G's, buy the best 5 point harness with ratchet that money can buy.Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: VM 1000
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Extra Terminals??? Maybe I've missed something as my VM1000 did not come with the part numbers listed. It looks like the rest of the stuff was there though... Ralph Capen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: Would you like a little more whine with that??
Gentllemen, gentlemen, can't we just all get along?????????? Obviously Bob, Bill, Ken, and Scott have missed the point......guy's........you are just reading an e-mail, it's not like I'm calling you names personally in your face......If you wish to paint yourself into the literary pictures I draw that is your prerogative. I can't help that. This method of drumming up VOLUNTARY DONATIONS has been going on for years. MOST Listers have seen it before and know what's going on. THEY HAVE A CLUE..... Unfortunately MOST have still decided NOT to make a donation. I don't hold that against them. If someone feels that they don't need to make a donation, that is their choice and I respect that. I REALLY don't think any less of them. Maybe they will make one next year. However, with that said, IF you are having some sort of personal problem with my posts then I submit that maybe you ARE having second thoughts about your position.....in other words: You MAY have a feeling about what is the right thing to do IN YOUR CASE, however, you are fighting with your own conscience. Only you can work through that to find the right answer. A good way to test that is to send Matt(e).........oh let's say.......$1. Okay now reread my prior appeals and see if they hold the same power over you. Annoying?? I hope so. They are meant to be. It was decided a long time ago that the majority of List members don't want to see advertising as a regular part of the List. This Fundraiser was an option that we decided to "tolerate" to try to compensate Matt(e) for all that he does for us. I DO take exception to some of your comments about Matt(e) attaching his URL for the Matronic's sites to the end of each post. For gosh sakes, will you reread those comments and look at what you are saying in front of over 2000 people? If it is so "inconvenient" for you to "see" that at the end of a post then I would suggest that maybe you should reassess your relationship with society in general. The rest of us are not here to service your needs THE WAY YOU WANT THEM SERVED! If any of you are still naive enough to believe that ANYTHING is free in our society today I would suggest that you WAKE UP! Whenever you enter a drawing for a "free" prize, you have just paid for it by entering your name on a zillion mailing lists when it's sold by the person offering the "free" prize. I can go on and on (believe me) with other examples of "FREE". In the case of this list you can send a donation or live with a little guilt or KNOW that you have contributed to the list IN OTHER WAYS or perhaps just knowing that you WILL CONTRIBUTE when you feel you are getting something of value from the List in the future. There is always some method of payment for a FREE service. Let's talk about political contributions....uh....on second thought...... Now lastly in this diatribe let me thank you personally for the flames because it's getting cold here in Ohio. Someday I hope to meet Matt(e) Dralle and he can buy me a beer (or Scotch for those of you who really know me). But until then, the "Thank you" he sends me privately each year and the kind words I get off list from many of you is MORE THAN enough to make me come back each November. (Maybe your worst nightmare.......talk about a turkey in November......) In the mean time I will continue to make my contribution by secure credit card connection at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by a check to: c/o Matt Dralle Matronics P.O. Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551 Oh yeah.......one more thing. I'm glad that I can make a contribution to keep this list alive at little cost to Matt(e) so you guys can freely express your opinions. I REALLY do respect them......I'll even buy you a beer if you look me up at Oshkosh........and please, when you spit the hook out put it in it's proper place back in the bait box....... or do you need a little more WHINE with that? AL ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VM 1000
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: Dec 01, 2000
12/01/2000 10:32:55 AM Ralph, The extra terminals are an option. A recommendation by their technical support staff as a time saver if you ever need to get into the DPU after you have gone to all the trouble to install 60 jillion wires into it. Apparently there are dip switches on the DPU that sometimes must be changed, as well as a back up battery that will eventually play out that will need to be replaced. Not to mention if the unit needs servicing you will be faced with the daunting task of removing all your connections to make this possible. I don't even want to think about trying to remember where they all would go when I got the DPU back from service. The term "extra terminals" is a misnomer. It's actually an exact replica of the terminal blocks that are already attached to the top of your DPU. The install procedure is to install all your wires to the extra terminal blocks then insert the blocks into the terminal blocks on the DPU. This provides you with a kinda quick disconnect feature that allows you to unattached every connection at once instead of individually without having to disconnect individual wires. It's just a feature. Your call as to rather you think it's worth the extra expense. For what I paid for the VM this was in the noise so I jumped at it. - Jim Andrews RV-8A ( cowling... ) O-360 A!A Sensenich 85 N89JA reserved http://www.homestead.com/RV8A/files/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Waalkes" <waalkes(at)netnitco.net>
Subject: Re: Last Call............)
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Stevo, You're quick to point of "voluntary" and "contribution" as words that we should focus on, but what about the "freeloader" that Al uses without hesitation? This foolish cheapskate would like to tell you to go fly a warped winged RV. Revengeful, Bob Waalkes RV-8 Emp. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Judd" <sjudd(at)ffd2.com> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 7:15 PM Subject: Shameful (Re: RV-List: Last Call............) > > > > > > I would also like to add that I belong to a couple other internet lists just > > Shame on you. > > Contributing to Matt has nothing to do with some imaginary legal contract, > or abstract philosophical concept. > > Regardless of how many pretend lawyers try to parse the meaning of the > word "free", Matt is not some charity that exists for the benefit of a few > RV builders, and the rv-list does not simply exist on its own. Donating > to Matt is a way of expressing appreciation for all the _hard work_ he > does for the list -- for the RV community. > > And it is more than that. The list is a kind of community, that exists > because of the voluntary contributions of the members of the community. > Some people contribute their time, some contribute their expertise, some > contribute humor and good cheer, and at least some contribute a modest > amount of money. "Voluntary" and "Contribution" are the key ideas here. > > Finally, whereas Al's posts have been witty and noble, the only whining > I've seen is from three sanctimonious cheapskates who don't seem to > realize just how foolish they've made themselves look in front of > hundreds, if not thousands, of RV builders. > > Disgusted, > > -Steve > > Go right ahead and archive > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Wires through the firewall
Gary: It would be helpful if you could supply a part number for the cannon plug. The web site is a maze and there are no discriptions of the items listed. Your help would be greatly appreciated as the idea to simplify the transfer of wires through the firewall with plugs is a good idea. How does it look? I am currently planning my course of attack for the VM-1000 and those big, stiff wires look like they will be hard to minipulate and keep clean looking as they merge into a plug. David Aronson FWF "Fesenbek, Gary" wrote: > > > > I need some advice regarding how folks are dealing with the ever increasing > number of wires that need to pass through the firewall. > > > I approached this problem by putting two 21 pin cannon plugs through the > firewall. I have one on the right and one on the left. My aircraft is > finished and I have been flying it for a year now and I only used about half > of the capacity for each side. Plenty of room for expansion. Another thing > that is neat about a cannon plug is that you can build a test plug to insert > between the male and female on the firewall to troubleshoot any problems > that you have with a volt/ampmeter. Although I haven't had any real > problems to put this to the test after flying, during initial installation > it was very handy. Another benefit is that if I am looking for my oil temp > sensor wire, I don't have to search through a bundle of wires to find it. I > know it is in the right plug at pin 7. > > Hope this helps. > > By the by, I got my plugs from Digikey. Look for them in the RV yeller > pages. Consider using the fire-resistant ones for the firewall. Use one on > the radio stack and it will make removal of the radio stack very very easy. > > Gary > RV6A > Dallas, TX > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: 0360 Engine New vs Rebuilt
Date: Dec 01, 2000
> >to pay for this. A lot of the paint on the engine has fallen off. I think > >for the price that these engines cost they could figure out how to paint > >one. > > I second that! I bought a new O-320-D1A from Van's for my -6 and it is I third that! Same deal on my O360. At the first annual I pulled the valve covers and stripped and primed and repainted them. They're still boring old Lycoming gray but they look a whole lot better and the paint is sticking this time. One of these days I'll go after the rest of the engine. Maybe. Uh-oh, the sun's coming out -- never mind! :-) Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: On rolling of the eyes at Van's-commentary
Paul, I too have restored several production aircraft and have been involved in aviation for over 30 years and had very FEW problems with the plans and instructions. But then I don't have that engineering degree. Maybe that's your problem. Dave Airbatix(at)AOL.COM wrote: > > Van and his organization have never really "got it"....they have suffered a > never ending barrage of help calls, letters, emails, and a nontrivial builder > "give up rate" because they refuse to make a significant investment in a > complete builder's manual, accurate drawings, assembly drawings, and > companion videos and/or workshops. They give you a box of parts with error > riddend drawings with a "back of the napkin" manual (if you disagree, check > out supporting data supplied by RANS, LANCAIR, KITFOX,etc...). This list has > proven invaluable to most of us (dispite some erroneous info and flaming) > because it provides absolutely essential supplemental data to van's sparse > data. I have a master's degree in engineering, have restored two production > aircraft, have been involved in aviation for over 25 years and I STILL have > struggeld mightily (like most of us) on the construction details of my RV6a. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com>
Subject: O360 Engine
Date: Dec 01, 2000
5.0.3 (Intl)|21 March 2000) at 12/01/2000 12:48:13 PM Carey, I was the one who posted this in response to a post by Scott. My O-360-A4A (from a Cherokee 180) lists 91 Octane as the min octane rating on the data plate. According to other listers the new O-360-A1A's from Van's also has this same rating. There has been discussion on the List before about running Premium auto fuel (91 Octane) in these O-360's. I believe several listers said they were running 91 already (Tim Lewis was one of them if I recall correctly). Some of the discussion has centered on whether the 91 autofuel is equivalent to whatever spec Lycoming used for this rating. Has anyone talked to Lycoming about this?? It would be interesting to get their response although I suspect they will not "approve" autofuel even if it works just fine. My thinking is if I have the option of burning 91 octane in my -360, it's an ace up my sleeve in case the "new avgas" doesn't work out to be available, affordable, or whatever. Part of the problem right now is that 91 octane is not available at most airports....usually airports that have autofuel carry regular unleaded because it's cheaper. If you have an engine modified with low compression pistons you can burn 87 autofuel, but you also take a loss in horsepower and efficiency. I want to keep the 180 hp so I'm going with the standard pistons. If I have to in the future, I'll find a way to get 91 autofuel out to the airport to use in my aircraft. My comment below was that I haven't seen an O-320 with 91 min octane rating on the dataplate straight from Lycoming. Any listers running 160 hp O-320's on 91 autofuel? --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A flaps From: Rvmils(at)AOL.COM Subject: Re: RV-List: O360 Engine In a message dated 11/30/2000 9:44:27 AM Central Standard Time, menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com writes: > and ability to burn 91 octane in it and > still make rated power. I think some O-320's can burn 91 octane without > putting the low compression pistons in it (and taking the subsequent loss > of 10 hp) but I'm not sure about this. > > Hey Scott, I haven't heard this before and just wondering what you mean by it. Thanks, Carey Mills ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com>
Subject: OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!!
Date: Dec 01, 2000
5.0.3 (Intl)|21 March 2000) at 12/01/2000 12:52:28 PM Listers, I know it's a no-no, but I have a primer question. I'm getting ready to start my fuselage and I'm wondering if anyone knows of a grey self-etching primer that is tough enough to be used on the interior of the cockpit without having to paint over it? It would save some time and weight to just leave the cockpit in primer. I used a brand X green primer (same as Vari-prime only half the price) on the wings and emp., but don't want a green cockpit. Comments from anyone already flying who have subjected a primer-only finish to some wear and tear would be especially appreciated. --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A flaps ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: weight and balance
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Dec 01, 2000
12/01/2000 01:59:11 PM Did you measure with the mains unloaded.....on jacks. The sprattle of the taper leg rods might cause the legs come to rest in a different location when in the air vrs. on the ground. "Dennis Persyk" (at)matronics.com on 11/30/2000 08:33:29 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: Re: RV-List: weight and balance Ed, I am grateful to you for posting your W&B numbers as there is something in Van's W&B section that has been bothering me greatly ever since I performed my W&B a couple of months ago. In my manual's section on W&B, designated 6S14.DOC 5-21-97, p 14-6, the distance between nose wheel and main wheels is d = (84.125 + 84.25)/2 - 28.56 = 55.63 inches. I note that you have a slanted wing that EXACTLY matches Van's slanted-wing example, so I must assume that you used Van's values out of the manual rather than measuring your plane. We (helper and I) instead measured the distance between my mains and nosewheel (axle center to axle center) and obtained a value of 54.69 inches. I estimate my probable measurement error at plus or minus 1/16 inch -- we took took care to do the measurement carefully. My wife and I just did a quick-and-dirty measurement as a reality check and we obtained 54.56 inches using only one main wheel, so I feel my original value is probably correct to within the stated error. My wife and I did not take the time to level the longerons for our Q&D measurement tonight, so I feel that this is a contributor to the source of the discrepancy between original and latest measurements. I therefore assume that there is a one-inch error in Van's example W&B. This may be attributable to the "new" nosegear on the 6A or simple measurement error on the part of Van's. My point is that one can incur considerable error in the calculation of W&B by using Van's worksheet as opposed to measuring it on your plane. Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 16 hours Hampshire, IL C38 -----Original Message----- From: Ed Anderson <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> Date: Thursday, November 30, 2000 6:20 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: weight and balance > >Paul, > I can't help you with the tail dragger, but my rotary powered RV-6A has >the following W&B > > Weight and Balance for RV-6A N494BW > Design CG Range FWD 68.7 AFT 76.8 > C.G. > Component Arm Weight Moment >Right Wheel 84.25 420 35385 >Left Wheel 84.125 420 35332.5 >Nose Wheel 28.5 330 9405 >Fuel 70 0 0 >Pilot 87.4 0 0 >Passenger 87.4 0 0 >Baggage 117 0 0 > CG Empty Weight > 68.48 1170 80122.5 > > >As you can see, I weight roughly 100 lbs heavier than a light VFR RV-6A >(full IFR) and my empy C.G is slight forward of the design limit. Van's >expressed no concerned over the slight forward C.G, were more concerned >about the weight. I also had two 25 AH Concord RG batteries (44 lbs >total)which I have since replace with two Odyssedy batters (total 30 lbs). > > As predicted by a forward C.G the aircraft is very stable, probably >slightly slower, and stalls at 58 indicated. No problem on the flare >(plenty of elevator autority for that). I have since had the aircraft >painted which probably put more weight toward the tail which I suspect >probably brings the bird just inside the design limit. The aircraft exceeds >its gross weight before it exceeds its aft C.G design limit. > > >Hope this helps. > >Ed Anderson >Matthews, NC >RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Unibit in an Airdrill
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Mark, The unibit is designed for slow speeds. Other than a drill press I have found that a battery operated hand drill is the best. Mike Robertson RV-8A N809RS 6.1 hours now >From: Mark Gilbert <mgilbert(at)ix.netcom.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Unibit in an Airdrill >Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 20:29:40 -0800 > > >If I use a unibit in an airdrill I get a sloppy hole drilling sheet AL ; >the bit thrashes around in the hole because it does not stay centered. Is >there a simple technique for using a unibit with an aridrill or is the >unibit made only for a drill press? > >I seem to have problems with the simplest things. > >Mark Gilbert >RV 6A - Wings - getting ready to drill rib holes for the electrical conduit >Sacramento > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: weight and balance
Date: Dec 01, 2000
-----Original Message----- From: pcondon(at)csc.com <pcondon(at)csc.com> Date: Friday, December 01, 2000 1:04 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: weight and balance > >Did you measure with the mains unloaded.....on jacks. The sprattle of the >taper leg rods might cause the legs come to rest in a different location >when in the air vrs. on the ground. Measured on the ground and weighed on the ground. Dennis >>"Dennis Persyk" (at)matronics.com on 11/30/2000 >08:33:29 PM > >Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com > >Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > > >To: >cc: > >Subject: Re: RV-List: weight and balance > > >Ed, > >I am grateful to you for posting your W&B numbers as there is something in >Van's W&B section that has been bothering me greatly ever since I performed >my W&B a couple of months ago. In my manual's section on W&B, designated >6S14.DOC 5-21-97, p 14-6, the distance between nose wheel and main wheels >is >d = (84.125 + 84.25)/2 - 28.56 = 55.63 inches. I note that you have a >slanted wing that EXACTLY matches Van's slanted-wing example, so I must >assume that you used Van's values out of the manual rather than measuring >your plane. > >We (helper and I) instead measured the distance between my mains and >nosewheel (axle center to axle center) and obtained a value of 54.69 >inches. >I estimate my probable measurement error at plus or minus 1/16 inch -- we >took took care to do the measurement carefully. My wife and I just did a >quick-and-dirty measurement as a reality check and we obtained 54.56 inches >using only one main wheel, so I feel my original value is probably correct >to within the stated error. My wife and I did not take the time to level >the longerons for our Q&D measurement tonight, so I feel that this is a >contributor to the source of the discrepancy between original and latest >measurements. > >I therefore assume that there is a one-inch error in Van's example W&B. >This may be attributable to the "new" nosegear on the 6A or simple >measurement error on the part of Van's. My point is that one can incur >considerable error in the calculation of W&B by using Van's worksheet as >opposed to measuring it on your plane. > >Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 16 hours >Hampshire, IL C38 > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ed Anderson <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Date: Thursday, November 30, 2000 6:20 PM >Subject: Re: RV-List: weight and balance > > >> >>Paul, >> I can't help you with the tail dragger, but my rotary powered RV-6A >has >>the following W&B >> >> Weight and Balance for RV-6A N494BW >> Design CG Range FWD 68.7 AFT 76.8 >> C.G. >> Component Arm Weight Moment >>Right Wheel 84.25 420 35385 >>Left Wheel 84.125 420 35332.5 >>Nose Wheel 28.5 330 9405 >>Fuel 70 0 0 >>Pilot 87.4 0 0 >>Passenger 87.4 0 0 >>Baggage 117 0 0 >> CG Empty Weight >> 68.48 1170 80122.5 >> >> >>As you can see, I weight roughly 100 lbs heavier than a light VFR RV-6A >>(full IFR) and my empy C.G is slight forward of the design limit. Van's >>expressed no concerned over the slight forward C.G, were more concerned >>about the weight. I also had two 25 AH Concord RG batteries (44 lbs >>total)which I have since replace with two Odyssedy batters (total 30 lbs). >> >> As predicted by a forward C.G the aircraft is very stable, probably >>slightly slower, and stalls at 58 indicated. No problem on the flare >>(plenty of elevator autority for that). I have since had the aircraft >>painted which probably put more weight toward the tail which I suspect >>probably brings the bird just inside the design limit. The aircraft >exceeds >>its gross weight before it exceeds its aft C.G design limit. >> >> >>Hope this helps. >> >>Ed Anderson >>Matthews, NC >>RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Unibit in an Airdrill
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Dec 01, 2000
12/01/2000 02:22:24 PM Greenlee makes a "unibit" clone that dosen't work near as well as the real unibit. Home Depo was out of Unibits and I needed the bit. I purchased the Greenlee (very good commerical electrical qualitity stuff) clone unibit(in electrical section not the tool coral--grunt-grunt) . The Greenlee is not self centering, does chatter and bores a octagon hole rather that a true circle hole. I end up using the Greenlee to approach my hole size and finish with the unibit. Save your money and buy the real unibit.... "Cy Galley" (at)matronics.com on 12/01/2000 08:28:10 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: Re: RV-List: Unibit in an Airdrill You must have either a defective bit or you are running it way too fast. A true unibit is self centering. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Gilbert" <mgilbert(at)ix.netcom.com> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:29 PM Subject: RV-List: Unibit in an Airdrill > > If I use a unibit in an airdrill I get a sloppy hole drilling sheet AL ; > the bit thrashes around in the hole because it does not stay centered. Is > there a simple technique for using a unibit with an aridrill or is the > unibit made only for a drill press? > > I seem to have problems with the simplest things. > > Mark Gilbert > RV 6A - Wings - getting ready to drill rib holes for the electrical conduit > Sacramento > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Need to buy an RV-6 project/tools in the SEUS
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Dec 01, 2000
12/01/2000 02:35:48 PM vern, be sure to try barnstormmers.com. Also, try the links to all the web based Vans wings. Some of the larger wing groups are listed on the links section at the Vans website. "Vern Darley, 11" (at)matronics.com on 12/01/2000 11:11:45 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: RV-List: Need to buy an RV-6 project/tools in the SEUS I am looking for an RV-6 project and will consider those at any stage.I prefer SE US since I'm in Atlanta so transportation will be easier. Thanks! Vern Darley 5 Perthshire Drive Peachtree City, GA 30269 w 770 487-6307 9-6 est h-770 487-5155 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Unibit in an Airdrill
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Dec 01, 2000
12/01/2000 02:38:31 PM What brand is the double fluted one. The Greenlee brand unibit is almost useless...it has a double flute. See my post for a writeup on the Greenlee "Steven DiNieri" (at)matronics.com on 12/01/2000 01:40:22 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: RE: RV-List: Unibit in an Airdrill Most of the unibits I've encountered are of the single flute variety. this design lends itself to an unstable path through most any material you choose, even in a press. Although I own several sized single flute unibits I bought a good double fluted one for cleaner cuts. at three times the price I'd still recommend trying one. capsteve(at)adelphia.net Steven DiNieri If I use a unibit in an airdrill I get a sloppy hole drilling sheet AL ; the bit thrashes around in the hole because it does not stay centered. Is there a simple technique for using a unibit with an aridrill or is the unibit made only for a drill press? I seem to have problems with the simplest things. Mark Gilbert ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!!
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Dec 01, 2000
12/01/2000 02:43:04 PM I used Mar-Hyde gray. Its a low solid, quick drying etching primer on the inside fuse. and pilot area. Holds up well, but not as good as a epoxy primer. Mar-Hyde's not a bad way to go. (at)matronics.com on 12/01/2000 01:46:21 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: RV-List: OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!! Listers, I know it's a no-no, but I have a primer question. I'm getting ready to start my fuselage and I'm wondering if anyone knows of a grey self-etching primer that is tough enough to be used on the interior of the cockpit without having to paint over it? It would save some time and weight to just leave the cockpit in primer. I used a brand X green primer (same as Vari-prime only half the price) on the wings and emp., but don't want a green cockpit. Comments from anyone already flying who have subjected a primer-only finish to some wear and tear would be especially appreciated. --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A flaps ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: O360 Engine
The O-360 IS approved for 91oct mogas. See Petersen's website at: http://www.webworksltd.com/WebPub/PetersenAviation/PetersenAvi Dave menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com wrote: > > Carey, > > I was the one who posted this in response to a post by Scott. My O-360-A4A > (from a Cherokee 180) lists 91 Octane as the min octane rating on the data > plate. According to other listers the new O-360-A1A's from Van's also has > this same rating. There has been discussion on the List before about > running Premium auto fuel (91 Octane) in these O-360's. I believe several > listers said they were running 91 already (Tim Lewis was one of them if I > recall correctly). Some of the discussion has centered on whether the 91 > autofuel is equivalent to whatever spec Lycoming used for this rating. Has > anyone talked to Lycoming about this?? It would be interesting to get > their response although I suspect they will not "approve" autofuel even if > it works just fine... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Lycoming and Auto gas
If you look at the following Lycoming publication, titled "Do Not Use Automotive Gasoline In Textron Lycoming Aircraft Engines That are Certified for Aviation Gasoline" http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/do_not_use_automotive_g as_in_aircraft.html Lycoming spells out why they don't want you to do it. Interestingly, it spends most of it's length talking about quality control, or lack therof and never mentions lead. Personally I wouldn't worry about the demise of 100LL. These engines have a pretty low compression ratio and should run on much lower octane no problem. I think most of the problems using lower octane occur when the pilot gets behind on the leaning and causes detonation. Again I'm out on a limb here cause I (unlike many on this list) don't really know what I'm talking about. It just seems like the adoption of a FADEC-type computer technology will allow us to use lower octane fuels without problems since the computers can watch for detonation and adjust for it. We should probably be extra-super-carefull about preventing vaporlock in the fuel lines... if we do have to switch to a lower octane fuel that's one problem a computer can't help us with. Matthew Gelber -8A fuse N48PP -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Bristol Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 12:13 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: O360 Engine The O-360 IS approved for 91oct mogas. See Petersen's website at: http://www.webworksltd.com/WebPub/PetersenAviation/PetersenAvi Dave menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com wrote: > > Carey, > > I was the one who posted this in response to a post by Scott. My O-360-A4A > (from a Cherokee 180) lists 91 Octane as the min octane rating on the data > plate. According to other listers the new O-360-A1A's from Van's also has > this same rating. There has been discussion on the List before about > running Premium auto fuel (91 Octane) in these O-360's. I believe several > listers said they were running 91 already (Tim Lewis was one of them if I > recall correctly). Some of the discussion has centered on whether the 91 > autofuel is equivalent to whatever spec Lycoming used for this rating. Has > anyone talked to Lycoming about this?? It would be interesting to get > their response although I suspect they will not "approve" autofuel even if > it works just fine... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: eCharts <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: 2 more days - 10% for Matronics
Since new VFR and IFR chart revisions just came, we'll hold over our 10% for Matronics offer for a couple of more days, (lets say till Monday) so that anyone who needs can fill in or subscribe to your commonly used charts. When you enter "10% for Matronics" in the special instructions box on our on-line order form (or say so by phone), we will hold 10% of your order total as a donation to the maintenance of the RV-list. This is a simple and convenient way to donate to Matronics and at the same time, being sure that your charts and approach plates are always up to date. Thanks, Andy eCharts http://eCharts.cc Builder's Bookstore http://buildersbooks.com 970 887-2207 New Chart Revisions as of 11/30/00 (now in stock) SECTIONALS New York San Antonio Kansas City New Orleans Brownsville Anchorage Seward Fairbanks TERMINAL CHARTS New York Boston Kansas City New Orleans Anchorage Facility Directories - all Low Enroute Charts - all Terminal Procedures - all MISCELLENEOUS VFR - IFR Planning Charts Flight Guide - Central States volume ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: 0360 Engine New vs Rebuilt
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Regarding peeling paint on engines... when I reworked the cylinders on my 0-320 (Citabria) I used Sacramento Sky Ranch's advice on painting engines. I striped all the components (case, accessory case, etc). Then cleaned thoroughly with lacquer thinner and Dupont 3812S enamel thinner. Then painted with the usual Tempo Lycoming engine paint (no primer!!). Then I managed to squeeze each component in the oven and bake at 200 degrees for 2 hours. Paint has been on for 4 years and is indestructible! Doug Weiler > > > > I second that! I bought a new O-320-D1A from Van's for my -6 and it is > > I third that! Same deal on my O360. At the first annual I pulled the valve > covers and stripped and primed and repainted them. They're still boring old > Lycoming gray but they look a whole lot better and the paint is sticking > this time. One of these days I'll go after the rest of the engine. Maybe. > Uh-oh, the sun's coming out -- never mind! :-) > > Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs) > Portland, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!!
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Mark - I have used Marhyde 5111 self etching primer on a lot of my interior and found that it is tough and holds up well against abbrasion. I think that a final coat of paint is still the best finish. Douglas G. Murray Southern Alberta ----- Original Message ----- From: <menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 11:46 AM Subject: RV-List: OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!! > > > Listers, > > I know it's a no-no, but I have a primer question. I'm getting ready to > start my fuselage and I'm wondering if anyone knows of a grey self-etching > primer that is tough enough to be used on the interior of the cockpit > without having to paint over it? It would save some time and weight to > just leave the cockpit in primer. I used a brand X green primer (same as > Vari-prime only half the price) on the wings and emp., but don't want a > green cockpit. > > Comments from anyone already flying who have subjected a primer-only finish > to some wear and tear would be especially appreciated. > > --Mark Navratil > Cedar Rapids, Iowa > RV-8A flaps > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: O360 Engine
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Thread-Topic: RV-List: O360 Engine Thread-Index: AcBb30aDIVYXnXsKTnizZtw7nnqpwAAAD32w
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
If you look at Lycoming's website, the article I read in the key reprints section seems to be pretty clear on their opposition to using autogas. Some of the reasons they list are inadequate lead to lubricate the valves and additives only present in auto fuel can cause internal corrosion. On Petersen's site, they recommend a tankful of avgas periodically to lubricate the valve stems. When avgas is gone (which looks like it WILL happen soon) I hope a better alternative is available, with some sort of lead-substitute. Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 59 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: Gary Rush <Gary.Rush(at)west.sun.com>
Subject: Re: OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!!
Speaking of cockpit paint, what brand and color gray do most people use? Thanks, Gary Rush RV8 Carlsbad, CA > From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!! > Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 13:53:29 -0700 > > > Mark - I have used Marhyde 5111 self etching primer on a lot of my interior > and found that it is tough and holds up well against abbrasion. I think > that a final coat of paint is still the best finish. > > Douglas G. Murray > Southern Alberta > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com> > To: > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 11:46 AM > Subject: RV-List: OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!! > > > > > > > > Listers, > > > > I know it's a no-no, but I have a primer question. I'm getting ready to > > start my fuselage and I'm wondering if anyone knows of a grey self-etching > > primer that is tough enough to be used on the interior of the cockpit > > without having to paint over it? It would save some time and weight to > > just leave the cockpit in primer. I used a brand X green primer (same as > > Vari-prime only half the price) on the wings and emp., but don't want a > > green cockpit. > > > > Comments from anyone already flying who have subjected a primer-only > finish > > to some wear and tear would be especially appreciated. > > > > --Mark Navratil > > Cedar Rapids, Iowa > > RV-8A flaps > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Berryhill" <dwberryhill(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Lycoming and Auto gas
Date: Dec 01, 2000
.....snip > > Personally I wouldn't worry about the demise of 100LL. These engines have a > pretty low compression ratio and should run on much lower octane no problem. > I think most of the problems using lower octane occur when the pilot gets > behind on the leaning and causes detonation. Again I'm out on a limb here > cause I (unlike many on this list) don't really know what I'm talking about. ............snip I know even less than Matthew about these things so forgive me if this is a stupid question: What about an automotive Octane Boost additive? Is there any reason you couldn't (or shouldn't) use this with Av gas? Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: FWIW: Left Hand Drill Bits
Hi Fred No offence but... if you drill through 2 pieces of metal, the left hand drill bit still tries to lift the top sheet up. The lifting up occurs because the top sheet tries to ride upwards the flute spiral before the next hole is started through the bottom sheet. the flute spiral in the drill bit is formed to effectively remove debries away from the hole being cut. This is thru for left and right hand drill bits. It's like left hand thread and right head thread, turned in the correct directions, both fasten things together. Am I missing something obvious here (very well possible) Gert Fred Kunkel wrote: > The left hand drill bit was originally developed > for drilling through very thin pieces of > over-lapping metal. Right hand drill bits tend to > lift the pieces of metal away from each other, so > the left hand cutting surface was developed to > push the metal together when drilling through it. -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Canon Connectors
Date: Dec 01, 2000
The thread on using Canon connectors to transverse the firewall sounds intriguing. The Newark Electronics catalog has a bunch of sizes/shapes. Can someone educate me as to exactly what the procedure and/or connector type is? As an example, there is something called a "wall mount receptacle". Is this mounted on the firewall? Which side? Any verbiage that doesn't leave me dangling or dimpled would be appreciated. Rick Jory RV8A QB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Unibit in an Airdrill
I try and clamp a piece of wood behind the hole, This stabilizes the unibit and gives round holes , even with a air drill. Done it many a times. Just got through drilling the holes for the back seat throttle through the f805 and f804 bulkheads. With a good piece of wood you can offset drill overlapping unibit holes and file the sides straight where needed. Even in a drill press I try and clamp a chunk of wood to the piece to be drilled whenever possible. The wood guides the drill and prevents it from wandering around. Hope this helps Gert Mark Gilbert wrote: > > > If I use a unibit in an airdrill I get a sloppy hole drilling sheet AL ; > the bit thrashes around in the hole because it does not stay centered. Is > there a simple technique for using a unibit with an aridrill or is the > unibit made only for a drill press? > > I seem to have problems with the simplest things. > > Mark Gilbert > RV 6A - Wings - getting ready to drill rib holes for the electrical conduit > Sacramento > -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HillStw(at)AOL.COM
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-8(A) Vent
No, you won't need it. hillstw(at)aol.com rv8a---100hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Canon Connectors
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Rick, You're right about it being confusing. The wall mount plugs have a flange on them usually with screw mount holes. But even that can get confusing because there are wall plugs that will have different barrel lengths for mounting on one side or the other of the wall. I know that sounds crazy but I've seen them. Then there are screw in plugs and then quarter turn plugs. It goes on and on. This is one of those areas where I have found it easier to find a local industrial electronics shop and tell them exactly what I want. Now if I just wasn't in Hawaii where they don't even know what I'm talking about half the time, let alone have any type of selection, Ha, Ha. Mike Robertson RV-8A N809RS 6.1 hours >From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: "RV-list" >Subject: RV-List: Canon Connectors >Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 16:14:25 -0700 > > >The thread on using Canon connectors to transverse the firewall sounds >intriguing. The Newark Electronics catalog has a bunch of sizes/shapes. > Can someone educate me as to exactly what the procedure and/or >connector type is? As an example, there is something called a "wall >mount receptacle". Is this mounted on the firewall? Which side? Any >verbiage that doesn't leave me dangling or dimpled would be appreciated. >Rick Jory RV8A QB > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New and improved RV-8/8A wings
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: Dec 01, 2000
12/01/2000 08:00:58 PM I just noticed in the latest RVator that Van's has redesigned the 8 wings. "These improvements, and other minor modifications have had the effect of increasing the strength of the spar and wing slightly and allow us to rase the aerobatic gross wieght of the RV-8/8A slightly, to 1600lbs." Anyone know what the old gross weight was? Just wondering how much improvement this represents. Thanks, Jim Andrews RV-8A ( cowling... ) O-360 A1A Sensenich 85 N89JA reserved http://www.homestead.com/RV8A/files/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Lumpkin" <tlump(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Back-Up Belts; was RV Aerobatics
Date: Dec 01, 2000
I am interested in putting a back-up lap strap in my RV-4 for neg. 'G' work. I would think that you would want complete redundancy. This would include all failure modes: the strap, the latch and the mount. Has anyone selected an alternate lap belt mounting point on an RV-4? Ted Lumpkin -----Original Message----- From: Jones, Bryan D. <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com> Date: Friday, December 01, 2000 9:19 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: RV Aerobatics <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com> > >I've inadvertently been negative in my -8 a couple of times. Besides the >engine quitting momentarily, I really didn't like the idea of ONE seat belt >latch between me and having to use the parachute. What I mean is, install a >backup lap belt if you plan to do negative stuff. Think about how you'd fly >if you were pressed up against the canopy out of your belt, or more likely, >sailing toward the ground with the canopy torn from the plane. > >Look at this months picture in Van's RV calendar. Nice shot of two -4's >flying inverted. > >just my 2 cents... > >Bryan Jones -8 765BJ ~55-hrs >Pearland, Texas > >-----Original Message----- >From: Terry Burch [mailto:rv6man(at)earthlink.net] >Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:34 PM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Aerobatics > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dave Berryhill" <dwberryhill(at)home.com> >To: >Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 6:11 PM >Subject: RV-List: RV Aerobatics > > >> >> I see that Van's doesn't recommend any negative g aerobatics in the RV's >> (but says that some mild positive g aeros are o.k.). Is this due to the >> structural limitations of the planes or because of the fuel and/or oil >> systems? >> >> Dave >> >> >The plane does fine in neg. It does fly with a nose high attitude inverted. >I dont do more than 2 neg. G's because I dont like the horizontal attach. >If you are consdering neg G's, buy the best 5 point harness with ratchet >that money can buy.Terry > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: New and improved RV-8/8A wings
Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com wrote: > > I just noticed in the latest RVator that Van's has redesigned the 8 wings. > "These improvements, and other minor modifications have had the effect of > increasing the strength of the spar and wing slightly and allow us to rase > the aerobatic gross wieght of the RV-8/8A slightly, to 1600lbs." Anyone > know what the old gross weight was? Just wondering how much improvement > this represents. > > Thanks, > > Jim Andrews > RV-8A ( cowling... ) > O-360 A1A Sensenich 85 > N89JA reserved > http://www.homestead.com/RV8A/files/ Hi Jim, The old aerobatic gross weight was (& still is for those of us with 'old' wings) 1550 pounds. So, the slight improvement was 50 pounds. -- Regards, Ken Balch Ashland, MA RV-8 #81125 N118KB (reserved) getting ready to mount the gear ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: New and improved RV-8/8A wings
The old wing was good to 1550 pounds in aerobatics... wonder what they changed that made it stronger? Anyone know? Now I finally have something about which I can say: "Back in the old days, let me how we did it... you kids don't know nothin' bout pain!" Matthew -8A fuse N48PP -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 6:02 PM Subject: RV-List: New and improved RV-8/8A wings I just noticed in the latest RVator that Van's has redesigned the 8 wings. "These improvements, and other minor modifications have had the effect of increasing the strength of the spar and wing slightly and allow us to rase the aerobatic gross wieght of the RV-8/8A slightly, to 1600lbs." Anyone know what the old gross weight was? Just wondering how much improvement this represents. Thanks, Jim Andrews RV-8A ( cowling... ) O-360 A1A Sensenich 85 N89JA reserved http://www.homestead.com/RV8A/files/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Burch" <rv6man(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Lycoming and Auto gas
Date: Dec 01, 2000
> > Personally I wouldn't worry about the demise of 100LL I worry like hell about it. It isnt just octane that is the problem. It is the lead. The valves need it. The done alot of research and so far the is no good replacement for 100LL. Our alternative would be to all lower our compression and loss hp.Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Burch" <rv6man(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: New and improved RV-8/8A wings
Date: Dec 01, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: <Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 9:01 PM Subject: RV-List: New and improved RV-8/8A wings ." Anyone > know what the old gross weight was? 1550.Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: RV6 slider track fairing
Date: Dec 01, 2000
> How do you bend the slider track fairing? I have tried using a small bending > brake, but the bends are too close together to fit in the brake. Is there a > better way? This is the one part I never could figure out why Van's won't supply. And unless they've updated the plans, they don't even give you an inkling of how you'd go about making one. I suppose you could make it by hand but really it needs a form and press, or fiberglass. If I were doing it today I'd make it out of fiberglass. Gary VanRemortel used to supply aluminum ones but currently doesn't -- ref. the following post from October: > List: I just got an E-Mail from Gary VanRemortel and the Slider Rail > Fairing is no longer available do to the lack of access to a 30 ton press > used in there manufacture. > Gary says he will make more (Sold the original 100) if he can find a > press. How many other builders could use this product? Maybe with > enough customers for Gary we could speed up the search for an > available press? Perhaps another builder has a line on a press? Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Lycoming and Auto gas
Again, I'm probably wrong but as I understand it: Octane is a measure of a fuel's ability to resist detonation. One of the things lead does is raise the octane. I said I wasn't worried about this because of the relatively low compression ratios aircraft engines use compared to auto engines (=lower risk of detonation). The reason cars get away with it is because they have computers that make sure this doesn't happen. I don't think it will be any great problem for FADEC-type systems to allow the use of auto fuels in the future, without lowering our compression ratios and power at all. Supposedly another thing the lead does is lubricate the valves, but Lycoming doesn't give this as a reason for not using auto gas. If you look at the document I quoted, their biggest beef with autogas in their arguments against it are quality control. They say that some of the additives in auto gas corrode the valves- I think that's in important distinction, they don't say that lead is the only thing that can lube the valves. Lowering our compression ratios won't help the valves at all, that's for reducing the possibility of detonation. To sum up my thoughts, the 3 biggest problems with UL gas are: 1) Detonation with lower octane fuels. I can't believe this will be a problem with our 8.5:1 compression ratios as long as we have FADEC-type controls, and would probably be fine without these controls. Those with 10:1 pistons might have a problem... maybe... 2) Lubrication of valves- I've got no answer for this one- maybe someone knows how all those old cars run on UL gas? 3) Vapor lock- could be a problem, and something we should think about now while we build our fuel systems- keep those lines away from the exhaust! The EAA says that 68% of the GA fleet can use 82UL (auto gas). Does anyone know what that 68% represents, and what the limiting characteristic of 82UL is for the other 32%? Sorry if any of this seems off-topic or stupid, but I'm actually really interested in why 100LL supposedly spells doom for us. I just don't see how 8.5:1 engines couldn't run on autogas as long as they had a computer control to manage timing and mixture- many cars are 10.5:1 and race motorcycles are often 12.5:1 on fuel that's cheaper than avgas. I can see how I (low-time pilot) could ruin an engine through improper leaning, but not if a computer runs it. And it can't be that hard to lubricate the valves... or is it? I guess I should add that I'm worried enough about the 100LL demise to consider fuel-injecting and FADECing my engine... Matthew -8A fuse N48PP -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Terry Burch Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 3:50 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Lycoming and Auto gas > > Personally I wouldn't worry about the demise of 100LL I worry like hell about it. It isnt just octane that is the problem. It is the lead. The valves need it. The done alot of research and so far the is no good replacement for 100LL. Our alternative would be to all lower our compression and loss hp.Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Re: RV6 slider track fairing
Date: Dec 01, 2000
> > This is the one part I never could figure out why Van's won't supply. And > unless they've updated the plans, they don't even give you an inkling of how > you'd go about making one. I suppose you could make it by hand but really it > needs a form and press, or fiberglass. If I were doing it today I'd make it > out of fiberglass. > It really is quite easy to file up a piece of oak or maple, and bend a piece of .025" aluminum for this fairing. Including chucking the first couple tries out, I bet I didn't have 45 minutes in that part. Finish the canopy, close it, take a few measurements and then go find the block of wood. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!!
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Gary , I used a light gray color in the interior. It is made by PPG and is called concept paint. A very high gloss and tougher than nails. I was happy to see that it matched Van's powder coating when he started that service. My dash and center console is painted a satin black. It seems as though most builders color the dash to match the interior but I like black dashs. Douglas G. Murray Southern Alberta ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Rush" <Gary.Rush(at)west.sun.com> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 3:22 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!! > > Speaking of cockpit paint, what brand and color gray do most people use? > > Thanks, > Gary Rush > RV8 Carlsbad, CA > > > From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> > > To: > > Subject: Re: RV-List: OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!! > > Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 13:53:29 -0700 > > > > > > Mark - I have used Marhyde 5111 self etching primer on a lot of my interior > > and found that it is tough and holds up well against abbrasion. I think > > that a final coat of paint is still the best finish. > > > > Douglas G. Murray > > Southern Alberta > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com> > > To: > > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 11:46 AM > > Subject: RV-List: OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > Listers, > > > > > > I know it's a no-no, but I have a primer question. I'm getting ready to > > > start my fuselage and I'm wondering if anyone knows of a grey self-etching > > > primer that is tough enough to be used on the interior of the cockpit > > > without having to paint over it? It would save some time and weight to > > > just leave the cockpit in primer. I used a brand X green primer (same as > > > Vari-prime only half the price) on the wings and emp., but don't want a > > > green cockpit. > > > > > > Comments from anyone already flying who have subjected a primer-only > > finish > > > to some wear and tear would be especially appreciated. > > > > > > --Mark Navratil > > > Cedar Rapids, Iowa > > > RV-8A flaps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Unibit in an Air drill
Date: Dec 02, 2000
I picked my twin fluted Unibit off the snap-on truck, so I'm not quite sure what manufacture it is. our guy carries a lot of non snapper tools to fit specific needs.. doesn't say on it. What brand is the double fluted one. The Greenlee brand unibit is almost useless...it has a double flute. See my post for a writeup on the Greenlee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: Lycoming and Auto gas
Date: - - - , 20-
Mathew and listers, I've been using auto gas for 15 years in my airplanes. That includes three of them: a C172 with a O320 145hp engine, a Cheetah with a O320 150hp engine, and my RV-6A with a O320 150hp engine. Maybe I can give some insight from my experiences. >1) Detonation with lower octane fuels. I can't believe this will be a >problem with our 8.5:1 compression ratios as long as we have >FADEC-type controls, and would probably be fine without these >controls. Those with 10:1 pistons might have a problem... maybe... I'd say you're right on with this assumption. Fortunately, I've always had low compression engines and have been able to run 87 octane. There has never been a problem with the cylinders that I can relate to the usage of auto gas. Of course, when one uses the aviation formulas for 87 octane auto gas, it's 82 octane as suggested for the 82UL avfuels. When I was ready for an engine for my RV-6A, the choice was obvious to me. I'm not an aerobatic nut and didn't need the high performance some of you look for. I decided on the 150hp O320 so that I could safely use auto gas and not have to worry with the AD on the crankshaft prop flange area. So far, that decision has worked out just fine. Petersen does state in letters that I have that many of our higher compression engines can run on higher octane auto fuels. I don't remember which ones, at this time; but, I do know that I'll have no problem finding an engine for a four place RV that runs on auto gas, if Van ever comes out with a four placer. :-) >2) Lubrication of valves- I've got no answer for this one- maybe >someone knows how all those old cars run on UL gas? I don't know about old autos; but, my aircraft engines have run just fine on it. I've had two opportunities to look at the insides of my aircraft engines (spell that expensive looks) due to internal problems. The first was due to a cam going sour after I had flown my Cheetah a couple of years. It had about 1100 hours on it, at the time. We found nothing in the valves that was unusual. The exhaust valves had to be replaced; but, the intakes were just fine. The cam problem seemed to be a common one, especially for an airplane that had sat for a while. Mine had before I bought it. The engine overhaul was not too expensive and used many of the old parts. The second opportunity was this year when I had a valve seat go after 500 hours of use. It was #3, the hottest cylinder. I attributed the seat problem to heat. My RV had the same problem until I lowered the temps with the dam in front of #1. I could still use a higher dam for that. In both cases, the valves had normal wear and tear. In the STC I had for the Cheetah, it was recommended to add some 100LL every once in a while. I do this a couple of times a year. It's worked for me, thus far. An easy way to replenish is to buy some 100LL on a long cross country when I can't get auto gas. >3) Vapor lock- could be a problem, and something we should think >about now while we build our fuel systems- keep those lines away >from the exhaust! That's a good statement whether you use auto gas, or not. I've got a lot of experience with vapor locks. All have been on the ground. In every case, it was when I needed to do a fast turnaround. In the Cheetah, it was usually very easy to clear the lock before takeoff; but, the RV is a tough one to clear. For it, I just plan my takeoffs about half an hour after I've landed just to give the gas a little time to cool down in the lines. Works like a charm. Personally, I don't think we're going to have to worry too much about the loss of 100LL because we do have a choice of engines. I did chose a lower compression engine that works for me. The FADEC system could be the answer for the rest of you who have to have the power. Personally, I'm not too worried about the loss of 100LL if I can find something that will replace the lead that I get from time to time. Even the loss of that may not be as big a problem as we think. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS (about 77 hours on the tach) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2000
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org>
Subject: Lycoming and Auto gas
> > To sum up my thoughts, the 3 biggest problems with UL gas are: > 1) Detonation with lower octane fuels. I can't believe this will be a > problem with our 8.5:1 compression ratios as long as we have FADEC-type > controls, and would probably be fine without these controls. Those with > 10:1 pistons might have a problem... maybe... There's a large difference in the detonation resistance of different engines that has nothing to do with compression ratio. Combustion chamber shape is a factor (wedges--like a GM small block--are better than hemispheres, for example). Combustion chamber temperature is also a big factor, especially exhaust valve temperature. So an air-cooled engine is automatically at a disadvantage. I don't know how the Lycoming combustion chamber fares, but I suspect it's not great since it was designed before the problem was well understood. The relatively high octanes specified, and the relatively low compression ratios, indicate that detonation is a problem with these engines. FADEC will help solve this problem. But, as the AvWeb article mentioned, this creates another problem for certified airplanes: recertification for the lower performance with the lower-octane fuel. Fortunately, re-certification's not a problem for homebuilders. But to the extent that it hurts the general aviation industry it will affect us. > 2) Lubrication of valves- I've got no answer for this one- maybe someone > knows how all those old cars run on UL gas? Street-rodders retrofit hardened valve seats to their heads if they're going to run unleaded fuel in an older engine. Some also use fuel additives. It appears that Lycoming valve stems receive marginal lubrication already, given the stuck valve problem. So I'd be a bit worried about that, too. Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wires through the firewall
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: Dec 02, 2000
12/02/2000 06:29:42 AM Thanks to all that replied to my query. Lots of good ideas. I don't know why I never considered electrical plugs but it's definitely a good solution. I also found that Van's catalog is one of the few that carries the larger firewall shields FYI. There is also a good write up in Fire Wall Forward regarding the split grommet approach that sounds pretty good. Now back to the project to put some of these ideas to good use. Glenn, if you get this, I accidentally deleted your post and would really like to read it. Could you please resend at your connivance. Thanks, - Jim Andrews RV-8A ( cowling and FWF ) O360 A1A Sensenich 85 N89JA reserved http://www.homestead.com/RV8A/files/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Canon Connectors
From: lm4(at)juno.com
Mike, While we are on the subject I thought I'd mention this . A bulkhead fitting ( amp connector) would make a nice neat installation. You will of course have to satisfy yourself of the fire and smoke thing. But I wanted to mention that Amp makes a neat screw-on plug cap for these and you can get them with safety wire holes in them.HTH Larry Mac Donald Rochester N.Y. > You're right about it being confusing. The wall mount plugs have a > flange > on them usually with screw mount holes. But even that can get > confusing > because there are wall plugs that will have different barrel lengths > for > mounting on one side or the other of the wall. I know that sounds > crazy but ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)AOL.COM
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Subject: Re: First Flight of N331DH - RV6 - SN21754
congratulations & well done i hope to be flying by sun - n - fun. way to go scott tampa rv6a hanging engine today ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2000
From: "Douglas E. Bostard" <dougacft(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: RV6-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/01/00
Vern: A few days ago, there were a couple posted in this forum for sale by one individual...in varying stages of completion. Doug Bostard ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Hanson" <slhanson(at)teleport.com>
Subject: RV Insurance Emotional.
Date: Dec 02, 2000
I am pissed and if you don't like ranting and raving on the list DELETE NOW. Over the years it has bothered me that others on the list were getting higher coverage's at lower costs. A couple of times I requested more information from the poster but I don't recall getting any. I took these quotes into Regal (my agent at the time) and showed them. Their response was, that when they dig into these things they always find differences that justify the increased cost. This year I decided to shop my insurance and yes I was aware that insurance carriers block this sort of thing. I chose both National? with the Vanguard program and SkySmith. National, which I believe runs their program through Phoenix, came back no quote because Regal had already requested a quote. I asked the man at National what he thought I should be paying compared to others he had insured. He gave a figure that I later compare to what Regal would have charged me at that same carrier and found out and Regal was about $200.00 higher. SkySmith came back with a quote from AIG. It was $949.00 for my 1993 RV6A with G&F hull coverage at 55,000, liability 1 mil, Medical 1,000, deductibles 100/500. Regal had been covering me with AIG at $1500.00, $1200.00, and now wanted $1282.00 for the same coverage. I tried to go with SkySmith, but it came to light that Regal had been quoted $1282.00 and therefore AIG was withdrawing the $949.00. To me this looks like collusion and I don't buy the crap that this is done for the pilots benefit. I don't think these are the only carriers doing this. Years ago I tried to get quotes from AVEMCO through AOPA? and the prices were ridiculous. I came away from that experience thinking that these organizations were getting together at the expense of the pilots. I talked with the guy at National (sorry that I forgot his name) and he explained that National was running a special program through Phoenix to be very competitive. I believe he told me they were insuring over 300 RV. I also talked(???) to Scott at SkySmith about this $350.00 extra and he confirmed that had I gone through him originally, and had Regal not been able to block me, they would have charged the $949.00 through a special program that they had with AIG. He also told me that he had some 200 RV insured. That would be about 500 RV out of 2500 RV flying. These agents may only deal with those planes in the USA which I assume might be the majority. Also subtracting planes that are self insured, then there must still be a lot of RV's out there insured with agents other than either of the two agents above. I would like to know where you RV owners are insuring your planes and why. Are you getting screwed like I have been and can this situation be changed? Gary Hanson 246RV RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Emrath" <Emrath(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Wing skin order of installation
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Gary, this is what I did also. I called Van's and they told me the instruction manual used to say to put the leading edge and tank skins on first but after they saw Art Chard and how he built a wing, they changed the instructions. I guess it really is a matter of personal preference. Marty, Skinning RV6A fuselage in Brentwood TN. ----- Original Message ----- From: <ENewton57(at)aol.com> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:59 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing skin order of installation > > Hi Gary, > I installed the leading edge and tank skins first and then the main skins. > This allowed me to butt the main skins up against the leading edge and tank > skins before drilling and created a nice tight seam line where they meet. It > works great and no trimming of the skins was necessary. BTW I also have the > pre-punched skins. > Happy Building, > Eric Newton Long Beach, MS, > RV-6A N57ME (reserved) (Fuselage) > Eric's RV-6A > Construction Page > > > In a message dated 11/30/00 9:42:19 AM Central Standard Time, > ggunn(at)uswest.net writes: > > << I'm working on my -6 wings and was wanting to know the order of skin > installation most folks > do. The plans tell you to install the main skins first and the video > does the leading edge skin first. >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!!
Date: Dec 02, 2000
I can't say enough good things about PPG concept. I've done a fair amount of spraying in my life, including doing it for a living for a couple years in college. The PPG concept buffs out N I C E and is apparently very tough. It's been on the front end of my GT-3 car for a couple years now and even 150mph rocks hitting it with too much regularity has not phased it at all. Some of the other paint, applied in Germany and generally considered to be excellent, has fared well also...but the PPG Concept is holding it's own a little better. For reference, my windshield glass is showing signs of all the abuse, with tiny specks in it from rocks and track debris....but the PPG which is on the forward most body panel shows zero signs of abuse. Tough stuff. For reference I've also used Imron, Amerflint, and PPG base clear.....and I like the Concept the best. Just a data point for you to consider. Bill > > I used a light gray color in the interior. It is made by PPG and is called > concept paint. A very high gloss and tougher than nails. I was happy to see > that it matched Van's powder coating when he started that service. My dash > and center console is painted a satin black. It seems as though most > builders color the dash to match the interior but I like black dashs. > > Speaking of cockpit paint, what brand and color gray do most people use? > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2000
From: Gerald Richardson <gerric(at)agt.net>
Subject: Re: Unibit in an Airdrill
Personally I would never use anything like that in the construction of an aircraft. The unibit was developed for use in the electrical trade for a quick and dirty hole, where precision is not required. Your best bet is to buy a complete set of numbered and fractional drills. Mark Gilbert wrote: > > If I use a unibit in an airdrill I get a sloppy hole drilling sheet AL ; > the bit thrashes around in the hole because it does not stay centered. Is > there a simple technique for using a unibit with an aridrill or is the > unibit made only for a drill press? > > I seem to have problems with the simplest things. > > Mark Gilbert > RV 6A - Wings - getting ready to drill rib holes for the electrical conduit > Sacramento > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2000
From: Dustin Norlund <rv6(at)address.com>
Subject: Pilot Building Time
List, My aircraft is now only days away from a DAR inspection. After spending the last 2+ years building an aircraft I need to get ready to fly it. I have been doing plenty of piper flying but no RV time as of late. Anyone in the Tulsa, Oklahoma area who would like to have some paid for (lunch, dinner, gas, oil, and what ever else) flying drop me a line. I would like to get 10 hours or so in a 6 or 4 soon. My aircraft is a 6 so a taildragger would be best but anything in the RV breed would do fine. Just want to get that "sport" feeling down again. Dustin Norlund Owasso, OK RV 6, "taxi testing" - Sand Ridge Airport Collinsville, Ok (10 NE of KTUL) KD5JXZ - 2M, 440, APRS Dustin Norlund RV6 - Taxi Testing PPSEL, KD5JXZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net>
Subject: Re: Wires through the firewall
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Oops, sorry Ralph about that (now) generic name (CANNON). I just walked through Allied Electronic's web site and found this procedure to work: www.alliedelec.com click on catalog select by manufacturer "AMPHENOL Corp." click display document. Page 519 - Miniature cylindrical connectors (these are MIL-C-26482, Series 1) look for the bulkhead (PTB-PS) column heading. If you have their catalog, page 518 shows pictures of the various plugs and receptacles and gives the definition of how the part number is derived. Disclaimer: I haven't used these before. I am just now considering them based on a recent conversation. Tom Barnes -6 electrical stuff. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 5:43 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Wires through the firewall > > Cannon (sp?) plugs look like a great idea. > > How about a hint as to how to find them in the catalog the link pointed to. > > I tried cannon and plug - unless I did the search wrong...I'm willing to > learn! > > Ralph Capen > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Unibit in an Airdrill
Date: Dec 02, 2000
> Personally I would never use anything like that in the construction of an > aircraft. The unibit was developed for use in the electrical trade for a quick > and dirty hole, where precision is not required. Your best bet is to buy a > complete set of numbered and fractional drills. I, and I think most people, mainly use Unibits for large holes, generally wire pass-thrus and things like that which don't need to be precise. Works a lot better for those 1/2" and 5/8" holes than a twist drill would, IMHO. Also work great when drilling a radius hole for a sheet metal inside corner, they make a nice neat beveled "self-deburred" hole that doesn't take much finishing. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs) Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Fuse Blocks
Date: Dec 02, 2000
> Are these fuses then considered to be accessible in flight? That is a > requirement isn't it? No. > Presently my fuse block hangs down from the front edge of the panel on the > pax side. I have a short stretch cord that will hold it up which seems > hokey but it is accessible in flight. But, is there a need? Perhaps. There has been a whole lot of discussion about this in the past however, I 'll bet if you go to the rv-list search engine and search for "fuses & circuit breakers" you'll get more info (and opinions) than you ever wanted on the subject! Also some stuff in the FAQ about it. In a nutshell, there's no requirement for fuses or CBs to be accessible in flight, and there is a lot of argument back and forth whether it's even desirable. Personally I think it is but your mileage may vary. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: engine hanging party part deaux
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Scott, you forgot to give directions or a phone number. Bill Orlando ----- Original Message ----- From: <ABAYMAN(at)AOL.COM> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 1:39 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: engine hanging party part deaux > > > dear listers > well i feel confident it will get hung this time, weather permitting, > saturday 12,2,2000. > around 12:00. food will be bar-be- que or something cajun, and some good ole > fashion lie swapping. everyone is invited. aaaayyeeeeeeeee it don't get no > better than this. > ya'll come > scott > tampa rv6a hangin engine again. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Unibit in an Airdrill
Date: Dec 02, 2000
The unibit is really nice to enlarge hole is sheet metal as it does a much better job than an ordinary twist drill. It produces a round smooth hole unlike what happens with a twist drill. Now if you use a reamer after the twist drill then the holes are comparable. When working plexiglas, a unibit is the only way to go as it doesn't grab and crack the plexiglass on breakthru like an ordinary twist drill. The grabbing still occurs with a twist drill with negative rake. If you haven't tried one, you don't know what you are missing. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Richardson" <gerric(at)agt.net> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 9:18 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Unibit in an Airdrill > > Personally I would never use anything like that in the construction of an > aircraft. The unibit was developed for use in the electrical trade for a quick > and dirty hole, where precision is not required. Your best bet is to buy a > complete set of numbered and fractional drills. > > Mark Gilbert wrote: > > > > > If I use a unibit in an airdrill I get a sloppy hole drilling sheet AL ; > > the bit thrashes around in the hole because it does not stay centered. Is > > there a simple technique for using a unibit with an aridrill or is the > > unibit made only for a drill press? > > > > I seem to have problems with the simplest things. > > > > Mark Gilbert > > RV 6A - Wings - getting ready to drill rib holes for the electrical conduit > > Sacramento > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: Unibit in an Airdrill
Date: - - - , 20-
>Personally I would never use anything like that in the construction >of an aircraft. The unibit was developed for use in the electrical >trade for a quick and dirty hole, where precision is not required. >Your best bet is to buy a complete set of numbered and fractional >drills. Man, did you ever leave yourself open for flaming with that little statement! Many of us can't agree with you on that one. :-) For most of us, the Unibit is a must in the construction of a RV. I have two sizes of them. I found mine to be very useful for drilling sizes that I didn't have bits for in places where precision was not a must. With care, nice holes could be made with pretty good precision. I used the small Unibit to enlarge the holes in the canopy because it doesn't grab like high speed drill bits. Try that with numbered and fractional high speed drill bits if you want to see cracks form in a heatbeat, or should I say a skip of the heart beat when it happens. Of course, there's the heart attack that follows closely after the crack appears. :-) As one who has built a RV-6A that had to have just about all of the holes drilled by the builder, I'm very happy that I could use a Unibit in many places and would recommend them to any builder as long as the builder is willing to use a little care when drilling with them. I can honestly say that my RV-6A hasn't fallen out of the sky from using the Unibit. I suspect something else will cause that to happen long before the Unibit drilled holes will. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Berryhill" <dwberryhill(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Lycoming and Auto gas
Date: Dec 02, 2000
> > I've been using auto gas for 15 years in my airplanes. That includes > three of them: a C172 with a O320 145hp engine, a Cheetah with a > O320 150hp engine, and my RV-6A with a O320 150hp engine. > Maybe I can give some insight from my experiences. > > >1) Detonation with lower octane fuels. I can't believe this will be a > >problem with our 8.5:1 compression ratios as long as we have > >FADEC-type controls, and would probably be fine without these > >controls. Those with 10:1 pistons might have a problem... maybe... > All this talk about the change in Av fuel has made me wonder......When Uncle Sam stopped the production of leaded gas for autos years ago, it didn't take long for the automobile manufacturers to make changes in car engines to run without it, especially with regards to the valves (hardened valve seats, etc.). I know that auto companies produce a whole lot more engines than the aircraft companies but are the companies that produce airplane motors planning on making any design changes for the inevitable loss of lead in Av gas? Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)AOL.COM
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Subject: Re: O360 Engine
In a message dated 12/01/2000 10:51:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com writes: << Part of the problem right now is that 91 octane is not available at most airports....usually airports that have autofuel carry regular unleaded because it's cheaper. >> My guess is that in the future, there will be STC's for 180HP spam cans, and that high octane mogas without alcohol, etc. will appear at the fields. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)AOL.COM
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Subject: Re: RV Insurance Emotional.
Gary, Try giving Mac McGee a call at Aviation Underwriting Agency (AUA). He has always given us really good service. His number is 800-727-3823. George and Becki Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: newbie (sort of) questions
Date: Dec 02, 2000
1) Does it make more sense to build both wings at the same time instead of building only one wing jig and only doing one wing at a time? If so, why aren't more people doing it that way? 2) If primer is not actually a good corrosion resistor and is meant more to prep a surface for painting, then why are folks usually only priming and not painting the the non-alclad aluminum and steel surfaces. 3) Is there a primer which is non-toxic, non-carcinogenic and doesn't smell up the whole house when you use it in the basement and can be used up NORTH where it's darn cold in the winter? :-) If not, at least not toxic/carcinogenic? 4) Does a self-etching primer mean you don't have to use something like Alumaprep before applying the primer? Can you just spray a self-etching primer right onto unprepped aluminum/steel? 5) Is the Home Depot combination type paint & dust cartridge filter air mask good enough? 6) Any old aircraft maintainers vouch that alclad alone is good enough in high humidity areas over a long time? oh well, more than enough for now. TIA, lucky ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2000
From: Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: newbie (sort of) questions
Re: 1) Does it make more sense to build both wings at the same time instead of building only one wing jig and only doing one wing at a time? If so, why aren't more people doing it that way? I built both wings at the same time and wouldn't do it any other way- I'm sure it saved me tons of time and possible mistakes- no chance of reading the plans backwards on the second wing. The jig was easy to build- I used a single pair of uprights. The only difference is where vans plans show an angle out on one side to support a spar, just use a 4' piece of angle instead and attach the middle of this angle to the upright- you wind up with one wing levered out on each side. Works like a champ! The only downside is you do have to limbo in and out of the central space when you need to work on the bottom skins, but it's not too bad (at least for me, but older gents might not like it much). Matthew -8A fuse N48PP -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of lucky macy Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 10:10 AM Subject: RV-List: newbie (sort of) questions 1) Does it make more sense to build both wings at the same time instead of building only one wing jig and only doing one wing at a time? If so, why aren't more people doing it that way? 2) If primer is not actually a good corrosion resistor and is meant more to prep a surface for painting, then why are folks usually only priming and not painting the the non-alclad aluminum and steel surfaces. 3) Is there a primer which is non-toxic, non-carcinogenic and doesn't smell up the whole house when you use it in the basement and can be used up NORTH where it's darn cold in the winter? :-) If not, at least not toxic/carcinogenic? 4) Does a self-etching primer mean you don't have to use something like Alumaprep before applying the primer? Can you just spray a self-etching primer right onto unprepped aluminum/steel? 5) Is the Home Depot combination type paint & dust cartridge filter air mask good enough? 6) Any old aircraft maintainers vouch that alclad alone is good enough in high humidity areas over a long time? oh well, more than enough for now. TIA, lucky ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Canon Connectors
From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
After I bought one from ASOD, I went to Jenco Co. just out of Dallas. I needed to pull the pins & replace them. The boys at the shop said there is not a catolog, but they have a CD. HE gave me 10 his & hers pins. I could see connectors in boxes as far as I could see down the building. I think there are thousands of plugs, each with different pins & extraction/insertion tools. Likely a bunch of different crimpers also. My experts & me have broken 3 extraxtion tools & I don't have any wires out yet. Bernie just sent me copies of some spec pages, so I may learn from that. Don Jordan RV6A Arlington, Tx ***************************************** writes: > > > Rick, > > You're right about it being confusing. The wall mount plugs have a > flange on them usually with screw mount holes. But even that can get > confusing because there are wall plugs that will have different barrel lengths > for mounting on one side or the other of the wall. I know that sounds > crazy but I've seen them. Then there are screw in plugs and then quarter turn > plugs. It goes on and on. This is one of those areas where I have found it > easier to find a local industrial electronics shop and tell them exactly > what I want. > > Now if I just wasn't in Hawaii where they don't even know what I'm > talking > about half the time, let alone have any type of selection, Ha, Ha. > > Mike Robertson > RV-8A N809RS > 6.1 hours > > > >From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >To: "RV-list" > >Subject: RV-List: Canon Connectors > >Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 16:14:25 -0700 > > > > > >The thread on using Canon connectors to transverse the firewall > sounds intriguing. The Newark Electronics catalog has a bunch of > sizes/shapes. Can someone educate me as to exactly what the procedure and/or > >connector type is? As an example, there is something called a > "wall mount receptacle". Is this mounted on the firewall? Which side? > Any verbiage that doesn't leave me dangling or dimpled would be > appreciated. > >Rick Jory RV8A QB > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Left Hand Drill Bits
From: cecilth(at)juno.com
> Snap On tools sell them. > They are primarily used to drill out broken bolts<< > > Also to drill holes for left hand taps. HUH?? Whats the connection here? Cecil Hatfield ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Subject: Re: RV Insurance Emotional.
I pay $1030.00 for 35k coverage.I don't want to take a hit for the total loss.I am with Bodi&Wachs of Wakegan.Phone (847)249-5350 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Lycoming and Auto gas
date.) You may be right about 8 to 1 but H pistons 9 to1 do not like auto gas.This could wreck your engine. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2000
From: KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: newbie (sort of) questions
>6) Any old aircraft maintainers vouch that alclad alone is good enough in >high humidity areas over a long time? Come on over to the airport and I can show you two good-looking (from 30 feet) Cessna 170-A's that can't be (economically) repaired from the INTERNAL corrosion. Pop an inspection cover and it looks like someone shook a bag of powdered sugar in there from the corrosion. If you live in a high-humidity area, do what you can to make your airplane last forever. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2000
From: KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: Sticking Brakes
There was a time when there were some short Cleveland master cylinder return springs shipped in error. The archives will have the details, but, the bottom line is make sure your springs are the LONG springs and not the short ones; otherwise your master cylinder will not be pushed back enough. It depends on when your kit was shipped. There is a certain length (in inches) which you have to measure with the spring OFF of the brake. Van's probably has the measurement for the correct spring. I had the short ones. I e-mailed Vans and they shipped me a new set for no charge. This may have nothing to do with your problem, by the way. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Unibit in an Airdrill
Date: Dec 02, 2000
The unibit holes I've drilled during my project are top notch. Much cleaner that the standard drill bit holes. All have been done using a slow drill press. Just another point of view... Larry Bowen RV-8, starting gear boxes Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com Web: http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gerald > Richardson > Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 10:19 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Unibit in an Airdrill > > > Personally I would never use anything like that in the construction of an > aircraft. The unibit was developed for use in the electrical > trade for a quick > and dirty hole, where precision is not required. Your best bet > is to buy a > complete set of numbered and fractional drills. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Switch Research
Date: Dec 02, 2000
What type of switches do you plan on using? There are so many to choose from. I am only consideing switches with ratings that are at least 20 amps at 12VDC. I have decided that I will use one of the modern lighted switches. The auto parts, trucks, and marine after market sales outfits have zillions to choose from in the $10 range. There are generally two ways to go with this. Toggle switches or rocker switches. Toggles mount in round 1/2" holes and are considered more versitile. This is a standard hole so they can be replaced or changed very easily later in the service life. This is the way I will go. The other option are rocker switches. They are available in many very cool, modern styles. I have found that most need a thick panel and a very perfectly cut rectangle hole. (They are mostly designed for plastic dashboards) They end up loose if you don't make a perfect hole. This is difficult for the home builder to come up with. Relacements later in life must match exactly. But there are some seriously sexy rockers out there for dirt cheap. Every car parts store has a Cole Hersee catalog. Check out the 58328 serries on page 26. I have a bunch of 58328-11 and 58328-04 rockers (different project) and have them running on the bench. You should be able to find them for around $10-12 USD and they take 25 amps at 12VDC. These use a very small bulb that is on all the time so the lens always has a slight glow. When the rocker is thrown it uncovers more of the bulb so it brightens up. It is obviously set up for vehicles because it is not very bright. It could mount high in a panel without bothering the pilot. Just for a look see I bought a sample Cole Hersee 54109-01 (54110-01 for flaps). This is a wedge shaped toggle where the whole toggle is illuminated clear/off and red/on. Very cool looking but all plastic. It makes alot of light so I don't think it would be good near the top of the panel. I don't know yet if any of these lighted switches can get onto a dimmer circuit. Furthermore I should mention that any illuminated switch probably shouldn't control something off the battery bus. I have decided to go with lighted toggle switches. I first got interested in them when I saw them all over the panel of a new truck. They look stunning. The toggle is made out of aluminum with a small light in the tip. They look like a lighted diamond sitting on a pedestal. They glow a pale clear color when they are off then change to green when turned on. I traced the dealer of the truck and bought one from their parts department. It is made in Mexico by Carling and has the number 9803 on it. I don't know the rating so I can't use them. I also got the equivilent spring to center flap switch there by the same maunafctor with 9915 on it. Both use srew on terminals. I require fast on tabs called blade terminals. See website for link to the main company: http://www.carlingtech.com/index.htm I have not been able to trace this part number as their local dealer only takes custom orders with a min of $500. The car parts store had an almost identical switch made by Cole Hersee. They claim it is a new product, 25 amps at 12VDC, silver contacts, blade terminals, lighted clear when off and red when on. Part # M-54111-01 for regular on/off switches or M-54111-02 for the flap switch. I bought a sample and it is made in the USA. The down side is the toggle is plastic and the on color is red. I would rather have green on/ clear off. On the other hand these are so easily available and cheap. If you take a trip to an auto parts store you can browse the Cole Hersee catalog. You might even be able to get a copy of one. Good for the shop because it has the wiring diagrams. I guess I'm trying to find out from you guys if others have looked into this in detail and found these same switches. They don't appear too bright but it would be invaluble to hear from some one flying with these.


November 27, 2000 - December 02, 2000

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