RV-Archive.digest.vol-jt
December 02, 2000 - - - - , 20-
Are there other builders that would want these in green/on clear/off metal
toggle from Carlingswitch? Perhaps I should make a custom order and sell
them. I do beleive that these are elegant and high tech looking. Worth
having that extra modern look for the panel. Comments?
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Rudder Counterbalance |
Hi freinds,
Just finished up empennage! Except the glass. Fitted elevators and rudder and
everything fits
great. It was fun to see it all together. The rudder seems to be way light.
All my
counterweights where the same number and size, so I don't think I used the wrong
one. Any ideas
would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Jack
Getting ready for wings
Des Moines, IA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Sheehan <ctsheehan(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Counterbalance |
Are you building a -6 or an -8?
The rudder counterbalance is the same as the weight for the .020
elevator skins (which the -8 uses). If you're building a -6 which has
.016 skins the elevator counterweights are smaller, but the rudder still
uses the larger .020 weight.
Either way I seem to recall seeing somewhere that the rudder is NOT 100%
counterbalanced. The original -6 design of course has NO counterbalance.
Chris
-6 (also waiting for wings)
pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
>
> Hi freinds,
> Just finished up empennage! Except the glass. Fitted elevators and rudder and
everything fits
> great. It was fun to see it all together. The rudder seems to be way light.
All my
> counterweights where the same number and size, so I don't think I used the wrong
one. Any ideas
> would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Jack
> Getting ready for wings
> Des Moines, IA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joe wiza <jwiza1(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming and Auto gas date.) |
I have an 0360 A1D. Is anyone using auto fuel and if
so with what results and what conversions. Thanks
ahead
JoeRV6A 130 hrs
--- "BOBE." wrote:
> (BOBE.)
>
> You may be right about 8 to 1 but H pistons 9 to1 do
> not like auto
> gas.This could wreck your engine.
>
>
>
> support the
> Lists
> moment to
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joe wiza <jwiza1(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming and Auto gas date.) |
I have an 0360 A1D. Is anyone using auto fuel and if
so with what results and what conversions. Thanks
ahead
JoeRV6A 130 hrs
--- "BOBE." wrote:
> (BOBE.)
>
> You may be right about 8 to 1 but H pistons 9 to1 do
> not like auto
> gas.This could wreck your engine.
>
>
>
> support the
> Lists
> moment to
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Garth Shearing" <garth(at)Islandnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canon Connectors |
> The thread on using Canon connectors to transverse the firewall sounds
> intriguing. The Newark Electronics catalog has a bunch of sizes/shapes.
> Can someone educate me as to exactly what the procedure and/or
I am sure most people are aware of it, but it may be almost impossible to
solder the thermocouple wires to a firewall connector. These are made of
iron-constantan (CHT) and chromel-alumel (EGT). This stuff is normally
welded together at the measuring end at the factory. The Cannon connector
terminals are usually made of material that is satisfactory for soldering
only. Even crimping, if you could do it, would be questionable.
Also, if you terminate the thermocouple wire at the firewall, what is called
the "cold junction temperature" is now the temperature in the engine
compartment. Most manufacturers of inexpensive thermocouple type gauges
assume that the cold junction temperature is in the cockpit, usually
somewhere around 20 degrees centigrade or 68 degrees F. The thermocouple
wires are connected either directly to the gauge or by using a small
extension wire which is assumed to be totally within the cockpit. If you
had the junction in the engine compartment, as above, and the engine
compartment temperature happened to be 100 degrees fahrenheit, the cylinder
and exhaust gas temperatures would read about 32 degrees fahrenheit low on
the gauge. If the engine compartment temperature happened to be 150 degrees
fahreheit, a quite realistic temperature there, the gauge would read 82
degrees fahrenheit low. This of course goes for both the CHT and EGT
gauges.
Garth Shearing
completed VariEze and 75% RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Switch Research |
-----Original Message-----
From: Norman Hunger <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Date: Saturday, December 02, 2000 4:11 PM
Subject: RV-List: Switch Research
>
>What type of switches do you plan on using? There are so many to choose
>from. I am only consideing switches with ratings that are at least 20 amps
>at 12VDC.
>
>
>Just for a look see I bought a sample Cole Hersee 54109-01 (54110-01 for
>flaps).
>
>Norman Hunger
>RV6A Delta BC
I would suggest a momentary/off/on DPDT for the flaps. I asked the list
about this and it was suggested that a Cessna-type flap switch with
momentary down normal up was not required at all. I find the momentary
contact up flaps position to be unacceptable. In my O360/Hartzell
combination it takes but a few seconds to exceed the 85 K maximum flap
extension speed during a go-around or touch and go.
Beware lights that cannot be dimmed if you do night flying. My LASAR warn
light (LED) and B&W low-voltage light are overly bright even in bright
sunlight and powerfully distracting at night.
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 18 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Norman Hunger <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Date: Saturday, December 02, 2000 5:32 PM
Subject: RV-List: Mac Trim
>
>
>The reason I want to is I envision flying without the pass stick alot and I
>would like to have a backup trim switch if possible.
>
>Thank-you,
>Norman Hunger
>RV6A Delta BC
I would suggest an emergency trim runaway switch right beside the panel trim
switch. I can overpower the maximum out-of-trim condition in my plane at
cruise but I sure wouldn't want to fly that way for very long!
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 18 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Ignition Noise in Radio |
I have considerable ignition noise in my RV6A radio. On weaker stations
that clearly break squelch, the noise masks the audio.
Equipment is:
GX60
Bent-L 1/4 wave antenna on belly
Radio Shack L-C noise filter in supply line just before radio (did nothing)
15 microfarad cap across headset line helps slightly
LASAR ignition system
I believe that since the L-C filter did nothing that my problem is radiative
pickup. Anyone else note ignition noise problems with a LASAR system?
Are ignition harnesses normally shielded and are the LASAR harnesses any
different?
Dennis Persyk amateur radio N9DP RV6A N600DP O3360A1A/Hartzell 18 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Noise in Radio |
On 2 Dec 2000, at 17:43, Dennis Persyk wrote:
> I believe that since the L-C filter did nothing that my problem is
> radiative pickup. Anyone else note ignition noise problems with a
> LASAR system? Are ignition harnesses normally shielded and are
> the LASAR harnesses any different?
I had a similar problem crop up with my Lightspeed electronic ignition.
I turned out that the clips that grip the spark coils and the spark plugs
(automotive spark plugs on my system) needed to be squeezed
together to make better contact. Also, the little contact pieces that
screw onto the threaded portion of the spark plug tended to back off,
so I tightened those. Noise diminished 95%.
Tim
>
>
> I have considerable ignition noise in my RV6A radio. On weaker
> stations that clearly break squelch, the noise masks the audio.
>
> Equipment is:
> GX60
> Bent-L 1/4 wave antenna on belly
> Radio Shack L-C noise filter in supply line just before radio (did
> nothing) 15 microfarad cap across headset line helps slightly LASAR
> ignition system
>
> I believe that since the L-C filter did nothing that my problem is
> radiative pickup. Anyone else note ignition noise problems with a
> LASAR system? Are ignition harnesses normally shielded and are the
> LASAR harnesses any different?
>
> Dennis Persyk amateur radio N9DP RV6A N600DP O3360A1A/Hartzell 18
> hours Hampshire, IL C38
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
******
Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Switch Research |
Norman Hunger wrote:
>
> I have decided to go with lighted toggle switches. I first got interested in
> them when I saw them all over the panel of a new truck. They look stunning.
> The toggle is made out of aluminum with a small light in the tip. They look
> like a lighted diamond sitting on a pedestal. They glow a pale clear color
> when they are off then change to green when turned on. I traced the dealer
> of the truck and bought one from their parts department. It is made in
> Mexico by Carling and has the number 9803 on it. I don't know the rating so
> I can't use them. I also got the equivilent spring to center flap switch
> there by the same maunafctor with 9915 on it. Both use srew on terminals. I
> require fast on tabs called blade terminals. See website for link to the
> main company:
> http://www.carlingtech.com/index.htm
> I guess I'm trying to find out from you guys if others have looked into this
> in detail and found these same switches. They don't appear too bright but it
> would be invaluble to hear from some one flying with these.
>
> Are there other builders that would want these in green/on clear/off metal
> toggle from Carlingswitch? Perhaps I should make a custom order and sell
> them. I do beleive that these are elegant and high tech looking. Worth
> having that extra modern look for the panel. Comments?
If you are going to be flying at night, you might want to rethink the
lighted switches. Due to the curvature of the RV canopies, nearly every
lighted device on the panel will be reflected somewhere on the canopy.
I have a green "fuel pump on" light that is just right for daylight use,
but puts a big green blob on the canopy at night. I suspect that a bunch
of little lights on the ends of switches would look a lot like aircraft
when they are reflected onto the canopy.
Guess you could always paint over the lights if they proved to be a
problem........
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 210 hrs)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Spenner" <spenner(at)olimpo.com.br> |
| Subject: | Re: dumb questions |
Progressive Air Services Ltd.
Kamloops, B. C. V2B 7W8
( 250 ) 376-6226
Mr. Brad Ford
I reserched more tham twenty companies, and they have
the best prices and services.
Werner
RV-6A
Brazil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Spenner" <spenner(at)olimpo.com.br> |
| Subject: | Re: Canon Connectors |
In the Bob Nucklos web site you will find a link to the Aero-Eletric
Conector, Inc., they carry MIL-26482 Cannon Plugs.
Werner
RV-6A
Brazil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: newbie (sort of) questions |
Hi Lucky,
I'll give you my answer to #1.
By making a jig for both wings, there are many operations that can be
done in parallel saving time and memory. When you solve a problem for
one wing, you can almost immediately apply it the the other wing. If
your memory is like mine, it would be easy to forget the fine details of
the first wing by the time you start over from scratch on the second
wing.
The only disadvantage I can think of when you build wings on a
back-to-back jig, unless you come up with another jig geometry, is the
necessity of crawling under something to get to the space between the
wings. At age 69, I found it an acceptable nuisance.
Richard Dudley
RV-6A Fuselage
lucky macy wrote:
>
>
> 1) Does it make more sense to build both wings at the same time instead of
> building only one wing jig and only doing one wing at a time? If so, why
> aren't more people doing it that way?
>
> 2) If primer is not actually a good corrosion resistor and is meant more to
> prep a surface for painting, then why are folks usually only priming and not
> painting the the non-alclad aluminum and steel surfaces.
>
> 3) Is there a primer which is non-toxic, non-carcinogenic and doesn't smell
> up the whole house when you use it in the basement and can be used up NORTH
> where it's darn cold in the winter? :-) If not, at least not
> toxic/carcinogenic?
>
> 4) Does a self-etching primer mean you don't have to use something like
> Alumaprep before applying the primer? Can you just spray a self-etching
> primer right onto unprepped aluminum/steel?
>
> 5) Is the Home Depot combination type paint & dust cartridge filter air mask
> good enough?
>
> 6) Any old aircraft maintainers vouch that alclad alone is good enough in
> high humidity areas over a long time?
>
> oh well, more than enough for now.
>
> TIA,
> lucky
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Decker <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: newbie (sort of) questions |
> 1) Does it make more sense to build both wings at the same time instead
> of
> building only one wing jig and only doing one wing at a time? If so,
> why
> aren't more people doing it that way?
1. Most people probably have limited building space. Two wing jigs take
up a considerable amount of room. Also, one wing at a time is enough to
keep a person more than busy.
> 2) If primer is not actually a good corrosion resistor and is meant more
> to
> prep a surface for painting, then why are folks usually only priming and
> not
> painting the the non-alclad aluminum and steel surfaces.
Zinc Chromate and its various cousins do a pretty darn good job of
delaying corrosion.
> 4) Does a self-etching primer mean you don't have to use something like
> Alumaprep before applying the primer? Can you just spray a self-etching
> primer right onto unprepped aluminum/steel?
Yes, just get the part clean and shoot it.
> 5) Is the Home Depot combination type paint & dust cartridge filter air
> mask
> good enough?
Thats what I've been using.<---And only a few tumors so far.
> 6) Any old aircraft maintainers vouch that alclad alone is good enough
> in
> high humidity areas over a long time?
Many, many production aircraft do not use any primer. But most builders
are patient and detail oriented and thus choose to prime their birds.
Matt Rv-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> |
| Subject: | Angle for tie-down bars |
I'm about to install the tie-down bars and not sure I have the right angle
stock for it. The plans call for .032 3/4x3/4. The only angle stock Van's
sent me (AFAIK) is 3, 12ft pieces that are marked in my packing list as
Longerons along with the 2. 15ft pieces.
Am I supposed to cut one of the 12' pieces? I'm obviously hesitant since I
don't want to scrap one of my longerons.
Are
RV-8 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV Insurance Emotional. |
In a message dated 12/2/2000 5:37:02 PM Central Standard Time,
brucegray(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< That's not the way mine works. I placed a fixed value on the hull of my
Glasair
III. My insurance company had an opportunity to challenge my valuation. They
did
not and charged me a hull rate of my value times their hull rate per
thousand. If
I total my airplane, they damn well better write me a check for the face
amount of
my hull coverage. Market value does not play any part in the amount of the
settlement. Perhaps in cars but not in planes.
BTW, I've read my policy from cover to cover and it does not mention market
value
anywhere.
>>
Better take a look again. This is in there somewhere for one simple reason.
Why, you ask. To keep you from insuring the aircraft for more then its
worth. For instance if you insure your aircraft for 200,000 and its only
worth 100,000 there not going to give you 200,000 no matter how much you beg.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dumb questions |
Thank you SO much...jolly in aurora
Werner Spenner wrote:
>
> Progressive Air Services Ltd.
> Kamloops, B. C. V2B 7W8
> ( 250 ) 376-6226
> Mr. Brad Ford
> I reserched more tham twenty companies, and they have
> the best prices and services.
> Werner
> RV-6A
> Brazil
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Switch Research |
In a message dated 12/2/00 2:11:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
nhunger(at)sprint.ca writes:
<< Are there other builders that would want these in green/on clear/off metal
toggle from Carlingswitch? Perhaps I should make a custom order and sell
them. I do believe that these are elegant and high tech looking. Worth
having that extra modern look for the panel. Comments? >>
I was able to get some Carlingswitch custom rocker switches directly thru
Wicks Aircraft. Try talking to their purchasing folks. They were very
accommodating.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
WOW!!
I just got my Ti-Downs (titanium coil tie-down kit) from Randy Simpson at
Airtime Mfg.
345 Scravel Hill Rd. SE
Albany, Oregon 97321
An outstanding value, they are beautiful, elegant and exceedingly light (30
ounces total weight in the bag--3 coils, including cheater bar and ropes).
Everyone on the RV list needs to get a set of these babies as a holiday gift.
Trust me, the RV pilot in your family will be thrilled and will love you
forever (and in every position). Do not hesitate to place your order now.
Randy is a class act in every way and I'm proud to list him in the Yeller
Pages!!
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Winters <dtw_rv6(at)yahoo.com> |
Well, here's my submission for bonehead move of the
year.
I'm in the fit skins to skeleton stage of building my
wing, and I elected to install the outboard / lower
panel first. Next I drilled the upper outboard skin
to the leading edge, and then the inboard / lower, and
finally the inboard / upper.
That's where I think I goofed. Check out:
http://www.netusa1.net/~dtw50/oops.htm
The inboard upper skin is too high -- only a problem
if you have the pre-punched skins (I do). When I
started drilling the lower rivet holes for the rear
spar, they are barely below the reinforcing bar that
is already attached to the spar. Ouch!
Any suggestions?
If I drill new holes directly below the pre-punched
holes, is it possible to fill the "spares" in when I
paint?
What other options do you guys suggest?
Don Winters
http://www.netusa1.net/index.html
(wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)AOL.COM |
I have recently noticed that I can hear static in my headseat when the
transponder is being interoggated. The noise is "in sync" with the reply
lamp. Anybody who has had a similar problem please get back with me.
Thanks
Jim Nice
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle for tie-down bars |
Are,
DON'T CUT THE LONGERON ANGLE!!
There is suppose to be some other angle in there as well. It's the same
angle that's used to make the rib attachment angles.
Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res)
Plainfield, IL
Skinning the Wings
http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
----- Original Message -----
From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 8:21 PM
Subject: RV-List: Angle for tie-down bars
>
> I'm about to install the tie-down bars and not sure I have the right angle
> stock for it. The plans call for .032 3/4x3/4. The only angle stock Van's
> sent me (AFAIK) is 3, 12ft pieces that are marked in my packing list as
> Longerons along with the 2. 15ft pieces.
>
> Am I supposed to cut one of the 12' pieces? I'm obviously hesitant since I
> don't want to scrap one of my longerons.
>
> Are
> RV-8 Wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel Estrada F." <dani_estrada(at)infosel.net.mx> |
Hello:
Finally, after buy little by little my tools, compressor, etc., I could
drill that first hole in my empenage kit.
Every thing is ok and now I am priming my kit with VARY-PRIME from
DuPont...can you tell me if I choose the right primer...? and How good is
it..?
thank you
Daniel Estrada F.
Mexico City
RV6A Emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rollbar position |
| From: | "Robert Dickson" <bubba(at)coastalnet.com> |
I'm in the process of positioning the wd-641 rollbar (RV-6A slider). When I
position the aft edge of the tube at 3 1/8 behind the f-604 as called for in
the plans (what few there are for this process), it doesn't look like
there's enough space for the an3 bolt that goes forward of the 604. Can I
move the rollbar forward some to provide the needed space/edge distance? It
looks like maybe 1/8" might do it.
Also, any tips on where the rollbar brace should meet the f-6108 rib? It
looks like as long as it's aft of the 6105 subpanel that it will be ok, but,
once again, the plans/instructions leave a lot to the imagination. And,
amazingly enough, I didn't find a whole lot in the archive.
Robert Dickson
RV-6A QB
waiting for the storm in NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Switch Research |
Norman Hunger wrote:
>
>
> > If you are going to be flying at night, you might want to rethink the
> > lighted switches. Due to the curvature of the RV canopies, nearly every
> > lighted device on the panel will be reflected somewhere on the canopy.
> >
> > I have a green "fuel pump on" light that is just right for daylight use,
> > but puts a big green blob on the canopy at night. I suspect that a bunch
> > of little lights on the ends of switches would look a lot like aircraft
> > when they are reflected onto the canopy.
>
> O.K., so we need to talk about glairsheilds as well. I am planning a well
> lit panel and am aware of the reflection problem. At this point I won't trim
> back my tip up canopy skin at all and I might extend it. This will create
> some thing close to 5 inches of overhang (my canopy frame isn't mounted
> right now). There were listers awhile back that were condemning this for
> it's dangerous edge in a crash but I think you'd faceplant the bubble first.
I agree on the danger of the extended glare shield.
> I'm planning on always using my shoulder straps anyway. The two advantages
> of getting way back from the panel are that it makes a perfect place to
> light from and the fact that it will sheild glare. I have a home made strip
> of bulbs from a JC Whitney lighting strip.
The less lighting the better. Believe me, wide area lighting in an RV
cockpit is asking for trouble due to that beautiful bubble canopy.
>
> Sam, how much glairsheild do you have?
Just the standard inch or so.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: rollbar position |
In a message dated 12/2/00 7:52:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,
bubba(at)coastalnet.com writes:
<< I'm in the process of positioning the wd-641 rollbar (RV-6A slider). When I
position the aft edge of the tube at 3 1/8 behind the f-604 as called for in
the plans (what few there are for this process), it doesn't look like
there's enough space for the an3 bolt that goes forward of the 604. Can I
move the rollbar forward some to provide the needed space/edge distance? It
looks like maybe 1/8" might do it. >>
I did the tall guy mods which moves the roll bar approximately 0.5" forward
and puts it on .250 thk stilts. Worked great.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: rollbar position |
In a message dated 12/2/00 11:25:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Vanremog(at)AOL.COM writes:
> << I'm in the process of positioning the wd-641 rollbar (RV-6A slider). When
> I
> position the aft edge of the tube at 3 1/8 behind the f-604 as called for in
> the plans (what few there are for this process), it doesn't look like
> there's enough space for the an3 bolt that goes forward of the 604. Can I
> move the rollbar forward some to provide the needed space/edge distance? It
> looks like maybe 1/8" might do it. >>
>
> I did the tall guy mods which moves the roll bar approximately 0.5" forward
> and puts it on .250 thk stilts.
I'm a short guy, didn't make this mod, but would if I ever built a second RV.
My answers to the original poster's two questions...
First: 1/8" fore or aft won't matter much in installation of the roll bar.
There are so many factors in the assembly of the canopy/windshield, that you
can accomodate 1/8" in virtually any direction...
Second: The roll bar brace does need to go aft of the sub panel. On mine,
the flat part that gets bolted to the center rib almost reached the sub
panel, but not quite. I probably have 3/4 inch between the brace and the
windshield.
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Angle for tie-down bars |
In a message dated 12/2/00 8:28:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
abarstad(at)bconnex.net writes:
> I'm about to install the tie-down bars and not sure I have the right angle
> stock for it. The plans call for .032 3/4x3/4. The only angle stock Van's
> sent me (AFAIK) is 3, 12ft pieces that are marked in my packing list as
> Longerons along with the 2. 15ft pieces.
>
> Am I supposed to cut one of the 12' pieces? I'm obviously hesitant since I
> don't want to scrap one of my longerons.
>
> Are
>
Are, the 15 footers are the longerons. You'll need a couple of 2' or so
pieces elsewhere, but otherwise, no long pieces are needed. Go ahead and cut
the 12 footers.
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Xponder Noise |
Jim,
Do you by chance have LightSpeed (older model) ANR headsets? They are
notorious for this problem.
I just tried out my new pair of LightSpeed 25Ks and they are better than
Bose, Sennheiser and Peltor ANRs, all of which I have tried in my 6A. The
difference is the passive attenuation. The 6A is one of the noisiest planes
for windnoise, and passive attenuation is more important than active (engine
noise). The QFRs may be an even better choice -- I'm going to test fly one
soon.
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 18 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
-----Original Message-----
From: JNice51355(at)AOL.COM <JNice51355(at)AOL.COM>
Date: Saturday, December 02, 2000 9:18 PM
Subject: RV-List: Xponder Noise
>
>I have recently noticed that I can hear static in my headseat when the
>transponder is being interoggated. The noise is "in sync" with the reply
>lamp. Anybody who has had a similar problem please get back with me.
>Thanks
>Jim Nice
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Sticking Brakes |
My sticking problem was solved by putting a washer on top of the snap ring and
letting the spring push on that instead of the bushing in the cylinder. The
bushing was moving about .050 and would not let the internal valve open to
dump the pressure.
Van's solved the problem by changing to a different cylinder.
Dave Bristol RV-6 N87DL 43hrs CPM
KostaLewis wrote:
>
> There was a time when there were some short Cleveland master cylinder
> return springs shipped in error. The archives will have the details, but,
> the bottom line is make sure your springs are the LONG springs and not the
> short ones; otherwise your master cylinder will not be pushed back enough.
> It depends on when your kit was shipped. There is a certain length (in
> inches) which you have to measure with the spring OFF of the brake. Van's
> probably has the measurement for the correct spring. I had the short ones.
> I e-mailed Vans and they shipped me a new set for no charge.
>
> This may have nothing to do with your problem, by the way.
>
> Michael
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net> |
Don, several of us tossed around some thoughts and ideas the other day
about when to install the leading edge skins vs the main skins. Did you
install the leading edge skins first?
The construction manual is pretty specific about maintaining the 1"
(+/-1/32" ) distance for the main skins from the leading edge of the main
spar for exactly the reason your dealing with now.
I think you a couple of options here. You could drill new holes in the skin
and spar but I would offset them to the left/right from the existing holes
so you don't have an edge distance problem between the new/old holes. You
can then later fill the old skin holes with microballoons and maybe lay a
very thin piece of fiberglass cloth along the fill to ensure it doesn't
crack the paint if the micro moves (which it probably will).
The second and maybe better way, would be to order yourself a set of NON
prepunched skins and layout your own hole pattern, ensuring you stay away
from the existing holes in the main and rear spars.
If it was me, I think I would go with the 2nd option and I'd also give Vans
a call about your options.
I've got my own problems, as I'm removing a couple of main ribs, and making
new forward and rear mounting flanges because I didn't rivet them in
straight and now I've got a similar problem to your if I dill the skins to
the bottom main ribs.
Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res)
Plainfield, IL
Skinning the Wings
http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
>
> Well, here's my submission for bonehead move of the
> year.
>
> I'm in the fit skins to skeleton stage of building my
> wing, and I elected to install the outboard / lower
> panel first. Next I drilled the upper outboard skin
> to the leading edge, and then the inboard / lower, and
> finally the inboard / upper.
>
> That's where I think I goofed. Check out:
> http://www.netusa1.net/~dtw50/oops.htm
>
> The inboard upper skin is too high -- only a problem
> if you have the pre-punched skins (I do). When I
> started drilling the lower rivet holes for the rear
> spar, they are barely below the reinforcing bar that
> is already attached to the spar. Ouch!
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> If I drill new holes directly below the pre-punched
> holes, is it possible to fill the "spares" in when I
> paint?
>
> What other options do you guys suggest?
>
> Don Winters
> http://www.netusa1.net/index.html
> (wings)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank and Dorothy <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: newbie (sort of) questions |
Matt Decker wrote:
> 1. Most people probably have limited building space. Two wing jigs take
> up a considerable amount of room. Also, one wing at a time is enough to
> keep a person more than busy.
I built both my wings at once on a back-to-back jig, in a single garage.
It required pretty much all of the single garage.
If I was doing it again, I'd arrange two jigs at about 135 degrees or
so, so that I could get at both sides of both wings without crawling
around.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ersf2b(at)oregoncoast.com |
| Subject: | VM1000 extra terminals |
Ralph, I installed a VM1000 in a RV-8. And checked into the extra terminal
price. I thought they were gouging. So I checked into terminals through an
ele. supply company. And found the very thing we need. All my wires are now
connected with six (?) terminals. The problem is, I am at work and will not
be able to get you the part numbers until next weekend.
Ed Storo RV-8----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 8:09:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: VM 1000
>
> Extra Terminals???
>
> Maybe I've missed something as my VM1000 did not come with the part
numbers
> listed. It looks like the rest of the stuff was there though...
>
> Ralph Capen
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle for tie-down bars |
Subject: Re: RV-List: Angle for tie-down bars
>
> In a message dated 12/2/00 8:28:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> abarstad(at)bconnex.net writes:
You'll need a couple of 2' or so
> pieces elsewhere, but otherwise, no long pieces are needed. Go ahead and
cut
> the 12 footers.
That may be true for the RV-6 but not for the 8. I am going to have to
order another piece at least 56" long because I cut up one of the three .063
x 3/4 x 3/4 x 12' long pieces that came with the wing kit. For the fuselage
aft lower (F-889) and aft mid (F-888) longerons for the RV-8, you need two
pieces about 102" long and two pieces about 56" long. You can get that from
the three lengths, but not if you cut all the short pieces you need out of
one of them. If I could weld all my short pieces back together, I would
have plenty.
Terry
RV-8A fuselage aft mid & aft lower longerons
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jared Boone" <jboone(at)earfeast.com> |
I've found this to be the case in every transponder-equipped plane I've
flown (admittedly only two Cessna 150s and a 172) -- the sound of the
transponder is a pseudo-random crackle. I've also found that strobes will
couple their signal into the audio lines (a whine as the strobe charges,
terminated by a click when the strobe fires). Being hyper-sensitive to
these things is my lot in life -- in one of my former lives, I was an
amateur music recording engineer.
The transponder responses require quite a bit of current (relative to other
avionics) from your electical system and creates quite a bit of
electromagnetic "interference" which can be induced into other circuits.
Low-level, high-impedence lines (mostly microphone lines) need to be
shielded from electromagnetic interference and distant from or perpendicular
to transmitter-antenna lines. High-frequency high-current devices (like
comm and transponder transmitters) need to have their electrical system
disturbances buffered or smoothed by a capacitor acting as a
fast-charge/discharge, localized battery. Specifically, probably the best
ways to mitigate such a problem is to put some sort of bypass (filter)
capacitor on the power supply wires into your transponder, and perhaps
shield the mic cabling and other low-level audio lines from your headset
into your intercom, and perhaps your radio. I would not be inclined to
blame your headset unless your mic cable is damaged or of bad quality -- but
it would be very easy to try someone else's headset just to eliminate any
doubt.
Any other opinions from real, practicing Electrical Engineers (unlike
myself, who had some EE in college that I rarely use)?
Look at it this way -- at least hearing these noises gives you some
consolation that your equipment is working... :-)
- Jared Boone
RV-8 empennage waiting to be picked up at Van's...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
JNice51355(at)AOL.COM
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 7:15 PM
Subject: RV-List: Xponder Noise
I have recently noticed that I can hear static in my headseat when the
transponder is being interoggated. The noise is "in sync" with the reply
lamp. Anybody who has had a similar problem please get back with me.
Thanks
Jim Nice
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fran Malczynski" <ebafm(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!! |
I've been using a light gray from NAPA made by Martin Senour. It's a
urethane enamel that I've found to go on very well with a high gloss. I plan
on using it on the entire interior and will add a flattening agent to it
when I spray the instrument panel and glare shield. The color name is gray,
the color number is 42-008. The flattening agent color is "Flat Base" and
the number is 22.
Hope this helps.
Fran Malczynski
RV6 (finish)
0360-A2A, Performance Propellar prop
Olcott, NY
. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Rush" <Gary.Rush(at)west.sun.com>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 17:22
Subject: Re: RV-List: OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!!
>
> Speaking of cockpit paint, what brand and color gray do most people use?
>
> Thanks,
> Gary Rush
> RV8 Carlsbad, CA
>
> > From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!!
> > Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 13:53:29 -0700
> >
> >
> > Mark - I have used Marhyde 5111 self etching primer on a lot of my
interior
> > and found that it is tough and holds up well against abbrasion. I think
> > that a final coat of paint is still the best finish.
> >
> > Douglas G. Murray
> > Southern Alberta
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 11:46 AM
> > Subject: RV-List: OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!!
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Listers,
> > >
> > > I know it's a no-no, but I have a primer question. I'm getting ready
to
> > > start my fuselage and I'm wondering if anyone knows of a grey
self-etching
> > > primer that is tough enough to be used on the interior of the cockpit
> > > without having to paint over it? It would save some time and weight
to
> > > just leave the cockpit in primer. I used a brand X green primer (same
as
> > > Vari-prime only half the price) on the wings and emp., but don't want
a
> > > green cockpit.
> > >
> > > Comments from anyone already flying who have subjected a primer-only
> > finish
> > > to some wear and tear would be especially appreciated.
> > >
> > > --Mark Navratil
> > > Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> > > RV-8A flaps
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rollbar position |
| From: | "Robert Dickson" <bubba(at)coastalnet.com> |
> I did the tall guy mods which moves the roll bar approximately 0.5" forward
> and puts it on .250 thk stilts. Worked great.
>
> -GV (RV-6A N1GV)
> vanremog(at)aol.com
what problems does this mod cause with the rest of the canopy installation?
I'd love to have as much headroom as I can get (I'm about 6'), but fit ok
into a -6 without mod, and don't want to cause myself a bunch of extra work
(as if I'd notice). Where would I find more info on "tall guy mods"?
Robert Dickson
RV-6A QB
just beginning the canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rollbar position |
| From: | "Robert Dickson" <bubba(at)coastalnet.com> |
>> I did the tall guy mods which moves the roll bar approximately 0.5" forward
>> and puts it on .250 thk stilts.
>
> I'm a short guy, didn't make this mod, but would if I ever built a second RV.
> Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
> RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
Is head room that tight, or are there other considerations?
thanks for the info.
Robert Dickson
RV-6A QB
canopy head scratchin'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle for tie-down bars |
>
>I'm about to install the tie-down bars and not sure I have the right angle
>stock for it. The plans call for .032 3/4x3/4. The only angle stock Van's
>sent me (AFAIK) is 3, 12ft pieces that are marked in my packing list as
>Longerons along with the 2. 15ft pieces.
>
>Am I supposed to cut one of the 12' pieces? I'm obviously hesitant since I
>don't want to scrap one of my longerons.
>
>Are
>RV-8 Wings
You need to be very careful to leave enough pieces of angle that are
long enough for the various fuselage longerons. I forget whether I
cut those four pieces from one piece of angle, or from two, but I did
it wrong and had to buy another long piece of angle.
Look at your preview plans and identify all the longerons and mark
the length now. See the archives for my earlier postings on this
question. Search for "How to run out of longeron stock".
Take care,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 95% done)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas E. Bostard" <dougacft(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/02/00 |
Van's aircraft also has some hellish good deals on planes, engines, etc.
in their classifiedss..but usually they're snapped up beffore the info
gets to your mailbox.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Angle for tie-down bars |
When I got to this point I got out the marker, studied the plans, and
allocated the necessary lengths to the longerons -- writing on the angle
``58" for longeron F8xx``, etc. This seems to have worked, because I
haven't come up short on the angle yet. (I hope I didn't just jinx myself.)
But to answer your question, I don't remember...Sorry. I can't find the
notes I thought I took on this topic.
Cheers,
Larry Bowen
RV-8 gears boxes in NC
Where's the snow?!
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Are Barstad
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 8:21 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Angle for tie-down bars
>
>
> I'm about to install the tie-down bars and not sure I have the right angle
> stock for it. The plans call for .032 3/4x3/4. The only angle stock Van's
> sent me (AFAIK) is 3, 12ft pieces that are marked in my packing list as
> Longerons along with the 2. 15ft pieces.
>
> Am I supposed to cut one of the 12' pieces? I'm obviously hesitant since I
> don't want to scrap one of my longerons.
>
> Are
> RV-8 Wings
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rollbar position |
--- Robert Dickson wrote:
>
>
> I'm in the process of positioning the wd-641 rollbar (RV-6A slider).
> When I
> position the aft edge of the tube at 3 1/8 behind the f-604 as called
> for in the plans
You specify your position based on the tube. I positioned mine at the
rear edge of the weldment. Either way, the clearance of the F604 is
not really a problem. The F6110 deck piece will provide plenty (heh,
heh) of room under the weldment base to position the whatchacallit and
nut/washer.
> Also, any tips on where the rollbar brace should meet the f-6108 rib?
> It
> looks like as long as it's aft of the 6105 subpanel that it will be
> ok, but,
> once again, the plans/instructions leave a lot to the imagination.
The plans show it much further back than most installations actually
are. This I know because I struggled with the same question. When I
checked web sites which show slider construction, local slider
builders' assemblies amd pictures I have taken around the state where I
have visited projects, all seem to have the brace attached closer to
just behind the subpanel than mid-way between subpanel and panel as the
plans show.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: rollbar position |
In a message dated 12/3/00 8:31:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
bubba(at)coastalnet.com writes:
> >> and puts it on .250 thk stilts.
> >
> > I'm a short guy, didn't make this mod, but would if I ever built a second
> RV.
>
> > Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
> > RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
>
> Is head room that tight, or are there other considerations?
>
> thanks for the info.
>
> Robert Dickson
> RV-6A QB
>
I like to sit up HIGH... I had cushions made to put me as high in the
cockpit as possible without cranial/headset/canopy interference. Better to
see over the nose, etc. The taller canopy would let me sit even higher.
That's all.
If you ever fly with Mike Seager in the factory pseudo RV-6 (the red one with
some of the Nigerian airforce mod's), notice that that canopy is 2-3 inches
taller than stock. The visibiltiy is great... Even with the tall option on a
standard -6, you won't get as big a canopy as on Mike's red pseudo-6, but you
will see some improvement.
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Angle for tie-down bars |
In a message dated 12/3/00 1:46:02 AM Eastern Standard Time,
tcwatson(at)seanet.com writes:
> bars
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 12/2/00 8:28:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > abarstad(at)bconnex.net writes:
> You'll need a couple of 2' or so
> > pieces elsewhere, but otherwise, no long pieces are needed. Go ahead and
> cut
> > the 12 footers.
>
> That may be true for the RV-6 but not for the 8. I am going to have to
> order another piece at least 56" long because I cut up one of the three .063
> x 3/4 x 3/4 x 12' long pieces that came with the wing kit. For the fuselage
> aft lower (F-889) and aft mid (F-888) longerons for the RV-8, you need two
> pieces about 102" long and two pieces about 56" long. You can get that from
> the three lengths, but not if you cut all the short pieces you need out of
> one of them. If I could weld all my short pieces back together, I would
> have plenty.
>
> Terry
> RV-8A fuselage aft mid &
Terry (and others),
Good "catch". I didn't notice this question was for a -8....
Shows the true value of the list....
Kyle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rollbar position |
I increased my rollbar height by 3/8 inch higher than 6A/tip-up plans but I
now wish I had gone a lot more. When I fitted the canopy I had an excess
skirt on the bottom of 1 1/2 inches. I see no reason why I couldn't have
increased the height by 3/4 inch at least. It is very desirable from the
standpoint of visibility over the nose and not hitting the headset band on
the canopy.
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 18 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Dickson <bubba(at)coastalnet.com>
Date: Sunday, December 03, 2000 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: rollbar position
>
>
>> I did the tall guy mods which moves the roll bar approximately 0.5"
forward
>> and puts it on .250 thk stilts. Worked great.
>>
>> -GV (RV-6A N1GV)
>> vanremog(at)aol.com
>
>what problems does this mod cause with the rest of the canopy installation?
>I'd love to have as much headroom as I can get (I'm about 6'), but fit ok
>into a -6 without mod, and don't want to cause myself a bunch of extra work
>(as if I'd notice). Where would I find more info on "tall guy mods"?
>
>Robert Dickson
>RV-6A QB
>just beginning the canopy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rollbar position |
>
> >> I did the tall guy mods which moves the roll bar approximately 0.5"
forward
> >> and puts it on .250 thk stilts.
> >
> > I'm a short guy, didn't make this mod, but would if I ever built a
second RV.
>
> > Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
> > RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
Where is there information on this "tall guy mod"?
Ed Holyoke
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: newbie (sort of) questions |
Question:
I too would like to build both wings at once (when I get to that point).
Would building two separate fixtures at right angles to each other and spaced
far enough apart to walk around either end of either fixture pose any
problems? I have plenty of room for this option and I was thinking of placing
my workbench in the corner created by the two fixtures. That way I could just
turn around and grab a tool when I need one, 'cause I know that tool will
always be right there when I need it and not on the other side of the wing
fixture.....
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Prince P-Tip Propellers |
Ernest,
I have been running a Prince P-tip prop since 1991 in my 0-360 powered RV-6.
I believe it is a 69X75, and is a maple core prop. I am delighted with the
performance and durability of the prop. I added a Landoll Harmonic dampener
about 5 years ago and I was also pleased with the results, having gained
about 40 static rpm and about 75 rpm in climb. This combination is incredibly
smooth running and allows me to pull 2780 rpm at full throttle @ sea level
and 2700 rpm @ 8000'. At solo weights I have seen 177KTS True @ 9500'. This
Airplane/Engine/Prop combo seems to perform best between 7000-10,000 feet.
Static RPM is 2380 and climb RPM @ 120KTS is 2525rpm. I am using a Braal
Digital Tach so I believe my rpm readings are accurate to within 1% (so
claims the manufacturer anyway).
Flying in rain you need to reduce RPM down below 2200 to keep erosion to a
minimum.
Lonnie Prince of Prince Aircraft was a pleasure to deal with, and I would
recommend taking a good look at the Prince props. Also If you go that route,
I would highly recommend the Landoll dampener, the prince prop is very light
and the dampener gives much needed weight and momentum to the whole process.
Regards,
Bill Mahoney
RV-6 N747W
Sherman, CT.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David and Betty Burton" <dburton(at)foxinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle for tie-down bars |
> >
> > I'm about to install the tie-down bars and not sure I have the right
angle
> > stock for it. The plans call for .032 3/4x3/4. The only angle stock
Van's
> > sent me (AFAIK) is 3, 12ft pieces that are marked in my packing list as
> > Longerons along with the 2. 15ft pieces.
> >
> > Am I supposed to cut one of the 12' pieces? I'm obviously hesitant since
I
> > don't want to scrap one of my longerons.
Anybody remember what a new longeron costs? I'm going to need to
replace all of mine, as the guy who I bought the kit from cut them all into
4' lengths so that they would be easier to transport!
Dave Burton
RV6A wings
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> |
| Subject: | Angle for tie-down bars |
Wow!
I don't think the pieces themselves are very expensive. The shipping in
order to get them to you unharmed is another story...
I just had a look at Van's web site and they are only $19.65 each for the
RV6.
Are
Anybody remember what a new longeron costs? I'm going to need to
replace all of mine, as the guy who I bought the kit from cut them all into
4' lengths so that they would be easier to transport!
Dave Burton
RV6A wings
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> |
Does anyone know if R.C. Allen (manufacturers of DG's and horizon
indicators) has a web address? Does anyone know if they offer the
horizon indicator with the 8-degree tilt? Thanks in advance.
Rick Jory, Highlands Ranch, CO RV8A QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Any Builders near Columbus OH? |
I will be in the Columbus Area for a few days after Christmas and would
love to see some RV projects especially any RV-8's.
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL Reserved
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo
(570)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle for tie-down bars |
>
>
> Anybody remember what a new longeron costs? I'm going to need to
>replace all of mine, as the guy who I bought the kit from cut them all into
>4' lengths so that they would be easier to transport!
>
>Dave Burton
>RV6A wings
>Seattle area
>
The info is available on Van's web site. Go to the web store, read
the text, and you will find a link to the parts list. Or, go
directly to it at:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/parts.txt
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 95% done)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> |
| Subject: | Angle for tie-down bars |
Well,
From what I can see, for the RV-8 I need: (I'm not counting the 15' upper
longerons since these are .125 and already spoken for)
2 105" .063 3/4 x 3/4 (aft-lvr longerons - F-889)
2 57" .063 3/4 x 3/4 (aft-mid longerons - F-888)
The pieces that was delivered to me are:
3 pieces of 144" angle stock.
If I cut one of these in two pieces, I will have enough for the 2 57"
pieces.
The other 2 will have 39" to spare.
So... It looks like I can cut all 4 tie down bar brackets from one 12' piece
(~32") and still have enough left for one 105" piece.
Maybe Van's started shipping longer pieces (or 3 as opposed to (2) 12'
pieces) but I can't see a big problem with this unless other shorther pieces
of same stock is not shipped with the fuselage kit.
Thanks Kevin by the way for telling me about the archive search for "How to
run out of longeron stock". This is what saved me. I tried other searches
and didn't find the info. I did verify your measurements with my own preview
manual though.
Are
RV-8 - Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Are Barstad
Sent: December 2, 2000 8:21 PM
Subject: RV-List: Angle for tie-down bars
I'm about to install the tie-down bars and not sure I have the right angle
stock for it. The plans call for .032 3/4x3/4. The only angle stock Van's
sent me (AFAIK) is 3, 12ft pieces that are marked in my packing list as
Longerons along with the 2. 15ft pieces.
Am I supposed to cut one of the 12' pieces? I'm obviously hesitant since I
don't want to scrap one of my longerons.
Are
RV-8 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Angle for tie-down bars |
>
>Wow!
>
>I don't think the pieces themselves are very expensive. The shipping in
>order to get them to you unharmed is another story...
>
>I just had a look at Van's web site and they are only $19.65 each for the
>RV6.
>
>Are
>
> Anybody remember what a new longeron costs? I'm going to need to
>replace all of mine, as the guy who I bought the kit from cut them all into
>4' lengths so that they would be easier to transport!
>
>Dave Burton
When I needed a couple of new pieces, I found another local builder
who was getting ready to order a wing kit. I had my pieces added to
his order, and I picked them up after they arrived. That saved me a
lot of money. Van can give you a list of all the builders in a
province or state.
In the case of Seattle, you might find a local source for the
material. As long as it is the right alloy (6061-T6), and has a
radius on the inside corner rather than a sharp corner, it doesn't
matter who you buy it from.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 95% done)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Prince P-Tip Propellers |
In a message dated 12/3/00 11:50:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, RV6ator(at)AOL.COM
writes:
> I have been running a Prince P-tip prop since 1991 in my 0-360 powered RV-6.
> I believe it is a 69X75, and is a maple core prop. I am delighted with the
> performance and durability of the prop. I added a Landoll Harmonic dampener
>
Bill,
Does the harmonic balancer just bolt on, or do you also need to make cowling
mod's for clearance?
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
________________________________________________________________________________
Rick,
I'm not aware if they have a web site but they do offer the 8 degree tilt. I
ordered a horizon through Varga at Oshkosh with the tilt, vacuum flag, and
lighted. I still haven't received it, they have a very long back order.
Rick McBride
80027
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com> |
Rick Jory wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone know if R.C. Allen (manufacturers of DG's and horizon
> indicators) has a web address? Does anyone know if they offer the
> horizon indicator with the 8-degree tilt? Thanks in advance.
> Rick Jory, Highlands Ranch, CO RV8A QB
>
Try this
http://www.rcallen.net/
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
| Subject: | Re: Prince P-Tip Propellers |
Landolls harmonic balancer bolts on the back of the flywheel.I do not
know if it was necessary but I used a dial indicator to install it.It
works real good.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 12/2/00 7:09:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
dtw_rv6(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< Any suggestions? >>
From the picture it's hard to tell for sure but it looks like you might
still be able to buck those rivets with a bar that has a thin tapered flat
end. If not you can probably drill new holes spaced at least 3D from the
existing ones, as always, check with Van's first. I learned a trick for
filling "oops" holes from this list awhile back by using a very short 3/32
OOPS rivet (has an undersized factory head). Make a smaller than normal
countersink for the undersized factory head and very lightly countersink the
back. Cut the rivet so that you have just enough length to form a small flush
head on the back and use your squeezer to mash them flush on both sides.
I've used this trick several times and it works well. You can make up some
lie about the extra rivets later or just fill them when you paint. Hope this
helps.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, working on canopy installation
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 12/2/00 7:37:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
dani_estrada(at)infosel.net.mx writes:
<< VARY-PRIME from DuPont...can you tell me if I choose the right primer...?
and How good is it..? >>
Arguably the best, but be sure you use a well fitting respirator designed for
paint fumes.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, working on canopy installation
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rollbar position |
In a message dated 12/2/00 7:52:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,
bubba(at)coastalnet.com writes:
<< Can I move the rollbar forward some to provide the needed space/edge
distance? It looks like maybe 1/8" might do it. ---- Also, any tips on
where the rollbar brace should meet the f-6108 rib? It looks like as long as
it's aft of the 6105 subpanel that it will be ok, >>
I also had to shift mine slightly forward to get enough space forward of the
F-604 for the forward bolt and everything seems to be fitting OK. The
forward edge of the flange on my rollbar brace is about 1/8 in. aft of the
6105 web. I also changed the way the rollbar brace, reinforcing 3/4 x 3/4
angle, center rib and 6105 come together (with Van's blessing) but that's
another story. If you're interested contact me off line.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, working on canopy installation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
I am still looking for a simple, reliable, and safe method to incorporate a
rudder trim control in a flying RV.
The things in the archives look interesting, but don't 'grab' me...I would
appreciate any ideas.
Thanks.
RV6A Flying, Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Back-Up Belts; was RV Aerobatics |
>
>Boyd,
>
> I believe every aircraft used for sanctioned unlimited aerobatics is
>required to have, at a minimum, a five-point harness and a second, backup
>lap belt. The point isn't that the primary harness is not strong enough to
>support your weight at high negative G's, it is simply prudent to have a
>redundant pilot restraint if negative G aerobatics are going to be part of
>your repertoire. This is just a redundant system like many other systems
>in our aircraft. Although I am not contemplating unlimited aerobatics in my
>RV-4, I do enjoy mild negative G aerobatics and would like to have the
>second lap belt. My dilemma is that I haven't figured out a place to anchor
>the second belt.
>
>Ted
Boyd,
In addition to this post by Ted, I would like to add that it is rarely the
belt that breaks. It is more often a failure of the connect point to the
fuselage. A few years ago, while practicing for the World Aerobatic
Championships, a U.S. team member ( I believe it was Phil Knight) had a
failure of his crotch strap while doing negative G's. What failed was the
bracket that the strap was connected to. I believe the pilot was thrown
into the canopy and momentarily lost control. Two things probably saved his
butt. First, he had a second lap belt. (a pure lap belt holds tighter than
the lap component of a five point harness). Second, his incredible
abilities and cool prevented further damage, and he regained control and
landed safely.
Boyd, you are correct in stating that the belts themselves are incredibly
strong. The problem is finding a means to attach the belts. The other side
of the coin is that the wings of an RV, being designed for only -3G's,
would probably snap before either the belts or the connect points.
Louis I. Willig
larywil(at)home.com
RV-4, N180PF, 75 hrs. and climbing fast
I0-360, Hartzell C/S
(610) 668-4964
Penn Valley, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming and Auto gas |
Tedd McHenry wrote:
snips
> > 2) Lubrication of valves- I've got no answer for this one- maybe someone
> > knows how all those old cars run on UL gas?
>
> Street-rodders retrofit hardened valve seats to their heads if they're
> going to run unleaded fuel in an older engine. Some also use fuel
> additives.
>
> It appears that Lycoming valve stems receive marginal lubrication already,
> given the stuck valve problem. So I'd be a bit worried about that, too.
>
> Tedd McHenry
> Surrey, BC
>
It seems that I remember sticking valve problems in cars, too, back in
the days of leaded auto fuel.....
Charlie
flying -4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dustin Norlund <rv6(at)address.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Dataplate |
Input needed,
Went to talk witht the DAR today about an inspection. He was asking about
engine and propeller. He said since i have a sterba wood prop on my lyc
0320-e2d i will have to remove my engine dataplate. I knew that i would have
to have a 40 hour test time, but do i really have to remove the data plate? I
can not find a single thing in the FARs about removal of a data plate due to
this condition. I did find a reference to NOT removing the dataplate from any
certificated part. What gives? Who and who does not have a data plate here.
I would understand if the engine was not stock but this is a stock 0320e2d.
Dustin Norlund
Owasso, OK
RV6 - Taxi Testing, Sand Ridge Airpark, Collinsville OK
KD5JXZ - 2M, 440, APRS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | R C Allen - where to buy? |
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
All,
A nearby RV-8 builder and I are at the purchase point for R C Allen
electric DGs and AIs.
Any recommendations at to a good place to buy yellow tagged electric
gyros, that perhaps will give a discount for buying 2 of each?
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (cowl)
Vienna, VA
----------
>From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: R C Allen
>Date: Sun, Dec 3, 2000, 2:19 PM
>
>
> Rick Jory wrote:
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know if R.C. Allen (manufacturers of DG's and horizon
>> indicators) has a web address? Does anyone know if they offer the
>> horizon indicator with the 8-degree tilt? Thanks in advance.
>> Rick Jory, Highlands Ranch, CO RV8A QB
>>
>
> Try this
> http://www.rcallen.net/
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: rollbar position |
In a message dated 12/3/00 5:26:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,
bubba(at)coastalnet.com writes:
<< What problems does this mod cause with the rest of the canopy installation?
I'd love to have as much headroom as I can get (I'm about 6'), but fit OK
into a -6 without mod, and don't want to cause myself a bunch of extra work
(as if I'd notice). Where would I find more info on "tall guy mods"? >>
No other complications vs the original as far as I could see. Van's has the
modification data sheet for the asking. These changes increase the seat
floor to canopy crest dimension from 40" to 41".
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Arthur Glaser <airplane(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming and Auto gas |
I do not believe people have addressed how we run our aircraft engines. New cars
and trucks are often rated for regular gas with the warning that on severe
acceleration one may hear a ping. This appears acceptable as it is only for a
short
time. A warning is given that a higher octane gas should be used if the noise
is
heard during normal operation. The average automobile (liquid cooled) cruises
at
highway speeds using only 20-40 hp. We use full power on takeoff for an extended
period of time which means extended high bmep as well as 75% cruise. Auto engines
have made design advances which include head design and electronics that allow
higher compression ratios on lower octane gas. We may be starting to get to this
point with fadec.
I have had people say that the O320 160 hp engine which is a 91-96 octane engine
will run on 93 octane automotive fuel. I do not know if this is true.
In any case, while at a meeting at Oshkosh on alternative fuels, the discussion
board was not confident of the aforementioned statement and also noted that
compression ratio was not the only determining factor in octane requirement.
Charlie and Tupper England wrote:
>
> Tedd McHenry wrote:
> snips
> > > 2) Lubrication of valves- I've got no answer for this one- maybe someone
> > > knows how all those old cars run on UL gas?
> >
> > Street-rodders retrofit hardened valve seats to their heads if they're
> > going to run unleaded fuel in an older engine. Some also use fuel
> > additives.
> >
> > It appears that Lycoming valve stems receive marginal lubrication already,
> > given the stuck valve problem. So I'd be a bit worried about that, too.
> >
> > Tedd McHenry
> > Surrey, BC
> >
> It seems that I remember sticking valve problems in cars, too, back in
> the days of leaded auto fuel.....
>
> Charlie
> flying -4
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
>
> Does anyone know if R.C. Allen (manufacturers of DG's and horizon
> indicators) has a web address? Does anyone know if they offer the
> horizon indicator with the 8-degree tilt? Thanks in advance.
> Rick Jory, Highlands Ranch, CO RV8A QB
>
>
Yeah, they make 'em, but you're not gonna like the price - around $1,800 if
I remember correctly. I bought mine from The Gyro House - check the Yellar
Pages for the website and phone no.
Jerry Carter
Memphis, TN
My RV-8A website:
http://rv8asite.homestead.com/mainpage.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Dataplate |
That is not correct! Call Earl Lawrence at EAA 920-426-4800 or e-mail at
elawrence(at)eaa.org for the true story. Your DAR has some wrong info.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dustin Norlund" <rv6(at)address.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 3:33 PM
Subject: RV-List: Engine Dataplate
>
>
> Input needed,
>
> Went to talk witht the DAR today about an inspection. He was asking about
> engine and propeller. He said since i have a sterba wood prop on my lyc
> 0320-e2d i will have to remove my engine dataplate. I knew that i would
have
> to have a 40 hour test time, but do i really have to remove the data
plate? I
> can not find a single thing in the FARs about removal of a data plate due
to
> this condition. I did find a reference to NOT removing the dataplate from
any
> certificated part. What gives? Who and who does not have a data plate
here.
> I would understand if the engine was not stock but this is a stock
0320e2d.
>
>
> Dustin Norlund
> Owasso, OK
> RV6 - Taxi Testing, Sand Ridge Airpark, Collinsville OK
> KD5JXZ - 2M, 440, APRS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Johnson" <scottjohnson345(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Can anybody that is flying an RV6/A identify with this particular |
chararcteristic that I noticed while flying my 6A today ?
For reference I have an RV6A with a Lycoming 0-360 with a Hartzel constant
speed prop and 170TT on the plane and engine.
Today while flying a new passenger, I noticed a significant increase in
engine noise with my headsets on which made me think I had some type of
problem. On top of that, I felt a lot of vibration through the floor. Being
cautious, I landed to check things out.
After checking the prop tightness, engine mounts, firewall, floor stringers,
forward longeron attachements, mufflers, checked for smoking rivets on the
bottom skins etc. I could find nothing wrong.
So I went back up in the air and discovered something I had not noticed in 3
years of flying my RV.
If the pilot and passenger both lift their legs off the floor and place them
on the rudder pedals without having their heels touch the floor, their is a
significant amplification of cabin engine noise from the bottom of the floor
due to the engine power pulses. It is quite surprising. Noticeable but not
as intense is if either the passenger or pilot shuffle their legs so that
the floor is temporarily unweighted. Note that as the pilot I usually keep
my feet on the rudder pedals with my heels firmly planted on the floor.
I asked a friend of mine to repeat the experiment in his New 6A which is
setup like mine and he was surprised to find out his does the same
thing.Upon raising his feet off the floor, he said the cabin noise picked up
a good 10 decibels.
I also figured out that the extra vibration I was feeling was do to the fact
that we had recently taken out a thick carpet and replaced it with a very
thin piece of material that was glued to the aluminum, and I was wearing a
set of shoes that had harder soles that transmitted the vibrations. (As a
side note, the panel or sidewalls did not have any more vibration than
normal.)
After flying around for a couple hours at different speeds and RPM levels
with two passengers I have flown in this plane for many hours, they both
said the plane vibration felt normal, but they also never noticed the
significant difference in noise when we lifted our feet off the floor. I
find this absolutely unbelievable that neither I nor my two frequent
passengers had not noticed this before in the past 3 years.
Has anybody else experienced this ?
scottjohnson345(at)home.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Garth Shearing" <garth(at)Islandnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Xponder Noise |
----- Original Message -----
From: <JNice51355(at)AOL.COM>
> I have recently noticed that I can hear static in my headseat when the
> transponder is being interoggated. The noise is "in sync" with the reply
> lamp.
Jared Boone covered the most likely sources of your problem. However, if
the transponder antenna is mounted close to your comm antenna, there is a
possibility that you are experiencing what is called "cross modulation", ie
the transponder transmitter signal is overloading the first stages of your
comm receiver. There are a couple of ways to see if this is happening but
perhaps the easiest is to separate the two antennas temporarily. You can
mount the transponder antenna temporarily on a flat sheet of aluminum about
three inches by three inches or bigger. If the problem goes away when you
do this, separate the antennas permanently on the airplane for satisfactory
performance or you can install a reject filter at 1090 MHz in the comm
antenna line. Explain the problem to an avionics shop or maybe a local
amateur radio type to get the approprate filter. If the problem does not go
away, one of Jared's suggestions is the culprit.
Garth Shearing
completed VariEze and 75% RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming and Auto gas |
> I have had people say that the O320 160 hp engine which is a 91-96
> octane engine will run on 93 octane automotive fuel. I do not know if
> this is true.
It is not only true from an experimental standpoint, STCs for several O-
320 engine models exist. The list of Lycoming engines that are STCd
to run on 91 octane auto fuel includes dozens of O-320 and O-360
models, including the O-360 A1A and O-320 D1A, both of which are
sold by Vans. There's a good deal of information on Petersen's web
site
(http://www.webworksltd.com/WebPub/PetersenAviation/PetersenAvi
ation.html) on how the STCs were obtained, and what limitations keep
certain aircraft from being STCd for auto gas, even though the engine
itself can handle auto gas. Fuel vaporization seems to be the thing
that keeps some aircraft from being STCd for auto fuel.
I intend to test my RV-6A (O-360 A1A) using 91 or 93 auto fuel when
time allows. There's some interesting discussion of this topic in the
archives.
Tim
******
Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Unibit in an Airdrill |
> Personally I would never use anything like that in the construction of
> an aircraft. The unibit was developed for use in the electrical trade
> for a quick and dirty hole, where precision is not required. Your
> best bet is to buy a complete set of numbered and fractional drills.
In my experience the unibit produces a better hole than a standard drill
bit (even a nice split point type). A couple of key points are to have
plenty of air pressure for the drill, and use a sharp unibit. Drilling
through stainless steel (firewall) dulls the unibit in a hurry.
Tim
******
Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Burch" <rv6man(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Back-Up Belts; was RV Aerobatics |
In IAC competition it required to have a secondary lap belt above
intermidiate.
Its highly recommended in lower categories. It is not the strength that is
the problem.
accidentally releasing a belt during a figure without a back up could be
horrific.
As far as second belt locations on 4's, just add hole lower on attach
fitting. One last note,
I hope no one out there is going to do acro with Vans stock belts. The
latches are way to
easy to open accidentally.Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moshe Lichtman" <moshe_lichtman(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Can anybody that is flying an RV6/A identify with this particular |
chararcteristic that I noticed while flying my 6A today ?
i'm dealing with a similar problem, and like you i have gone thru a process
of elimination to try to id the source of vibrations. i have close to 500
hours on my 6a but have recently done a top overhaul. i guess the break-in
period made me extra sensitive to issues like temps and vibrations... engine
noise bothers me less as my lightspeed anr make it a non-issue. at this
point only the prop and the engine itself are left as possible culprits. and
i too am wondering if these vib's are normal or is there a real problem
there...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Johnson" <scottjohnson345(at)home.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 3:38 PM
Subject: RV-List: Can anybody that is flying an RV6/A identify with this
particular chararcteristic that I noticed while flying my 6A today ?
>
> For reference I have an RV6A with a Lycoming 0-360 with a Hartzel constant
> speed prop and 170TT on the plane and engine.
>
> Today while flying a new passenger, I noticed a significant increase in
> engine noise with my headsets on which made me think I had some type of
> problem. On top of that, I felt a lot of vibration through the floor.
Being
> cautious, I landed to check things out.
>
> After checking the prop tightness, engine mounts, firewall, floor
stringers,
> forward longeron attachements, mufflers, checked for smoking rivets on the
> bottom skins etc. I could find nothing wrong.
>
> So I went back up in the air and discovered something I had not noticed in
3
> years of flying my RV.
>
> If the pilot and passenger both lift their legs off the floor and place
them
> on the rudder pedals without having their heels touch the floor, their is
a
> significant amplification of cabin engine noise from the bottom of the
floor
> due to the engine power pulses. It is quite surprising. Noticeable but not
> as intense is if either the passenger or pilot shuffle their legs so that
> the floor is temporarily unweighted. Note that as the pilot I usually keep
> my feet on the rudder pedals with my heels firmly planted on the floor.
>
> I asked a friend of mine to repeat the experiment in his New 6A which is
> setup like mine and he was surprised to find out his does the same
> thing.Upon raising his feet off the floor, he said the cabin noise picked
up
> a good 10 decibels.
>
> I also figured out that the extra vibration I was feeling was do to the
fact
> that we had recently taken out a thick carpet and replaced it with a very
> thin piece of material that was glued to the aluminum, and I was wearing a
> set of shoes that had harder soles that transmitted the vibrations. (As a
> side note, the panel or sidewalls did not have any more vibration than
> normal.)
>
> After flying around for a couple hours at different speeds and RPM levels
> with two passengers I have flown in this plane for many hours, they both
> said the plane vibration felt normal, but they also never noticed the
> significant difference in noise when we lifted our feet off the floor. I
> find this absolutely unbelievable that neither I nor my two frequent
> passengers had not noticed this before in the past 3 years.
>
> Has anybody else experienced this ?
>
> scottjohnson345(at)home.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Back-Up Belts; was RV Aerobatics |
| From: | b green <rvinfo(at)juno.com> |
IAC Rule 2.3(k) states that Dual seat belts with separate attaach points
and a shoulder harness are mandatory for advanced and unlimited
categories.
<<<<>>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Angle for tie-down bars |
Check locally for a AL angle supplier. There's nothing magic about the
unimproved stock Van's sells, is there? Just be sure to spec out the proper
material (6061, etc). You're sure to save a bundle in shipping costs.
Larry Bowen
RV-8 gear boxes
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Are Barstad
> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 11:51 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Angle for tie-down bars
>
>
> Wow!
>
> I don't think the pieces themselves are very expensive. The shipping in
> order to get them to you unharmed is another story...
>
> I just had a look at Van's web site and they are only $19.65 each for the
> RV6.
>
> Are
>
> Anybody remember what a new longeron costs? I'm going to need to
> replace all of mine, as the guy who I bought the kit from cut
> them all into
> 4' lengths so that they would be easier to transport!
>
> Dave Burton
> RV6A wings
> Seattle area
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Canon Connectors |
Try to get a Digi-Key Catalog at www.digi-key.com. There are lots of useful
accessories in the catalog that will make life easier when wiring up your
panel, etc.
Hope this helps.
John Danielson
Engine installation and finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle for tie-down bars |
> Check locally for a AL angle supplier. There's nothing magic about the
> unimproved stock Van's sells, is there?
Well, yes, there is, sort of. It's aircraft grade angle which means it has a
radius on the inside corner. Hardware store stuff generally just has a sharp
inside angle.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Can anybody that is flying an RV6/A identify with this particular |
chararcteristic that I noticed while flying my 6A today ?
> If the pilot and passenger both lift their legs off the floor and place
them
> on the rudder pedals without having their heels touch the floor, their is
a
> significant amplification of cabin engine noise from the bottom of the
floor
> due to the engine power pulses. It is quite surprising.
[snip]
> Has anybody else experienced this ?
Yes this is pretty normal. I remember when Bill Benedict showed me that on
one of the RV-6 demonstrators about the time I was getting started with my
fuselage. I had been toying with the idea of "boxing" my floor in like I'd
seen someone else do. After this little demo I was determined to go ahead
with that plan.
I riveted pieces of .040 angle back to back with the angles on the floor,
made .032 subfloor pieces to go across the tops the angles, screwed the
floor panels to them with nutplates, and tied them in at the angles at the
edges as well. Put some light foam insulation in there befor screwing it all
down. I'm sure it added a couple of pounds to my plane but there is NO
difference in noise or vibration when I lift my feet. I'm sure this lessens
the fatigue factor (less noise and vibration up through the feet), and I
think it will make it a lot less likely that I'll ever experience smoking
rivets on the belly too.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (175 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Canon Connectors |
I just purchased an extractor for AMP circular connectors Series 1. It was
expensive at $20 from a local dealer but it works so slick that I don't know
how I got along without it.
It consists of a tube which you slide over the pin or connector and it has a
plunger that is inside the tube. Just push on the plunger after inserting the
tube over the pin and push. Out pops the pin or connector.
John Danielson
Engine installation, finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
> Yeah, they make 'em, but you're not gonna like the price - around $1,800
if
> I remember correctly.
My Vacum RC Allen AH with 8 degree tilt was around $500. Did the original
poster ask about electric or something?
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Insulated soderless ring crimp-on terminals |
I have been trying to find Crimp-on ring terminals for 8 AWG wire with a #10
and 1/4" stud hole.
Can anyone help me out?
Thanks
John Danielson
Engine installation and finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
> > Yeah, they make 'em, but you're not gonna like the price - around $1,800
> if
> > I remember correctly.
>
> My Vacum RC Allen AH with 8 degree tilt was around $500. Did the original
> poster ask about electric or something?
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs)
> Portland, OR
> http://www.edt.com/homewing
Actually, he did not ask about electric, so the above price only applies to
the electric AH.
Jerry Carter
8A Cowling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle for tie-down bars |
>
>> Check locally for a AL angle supplier. There's nothing magic about the
>> unimproved stock Van's sells, is there?
>
>Well, yes, there is, sort of. It's aircraft grade angle which means it has a
>radius on the inside corner. Hardware store stuff generally just has a sharp
>inside angle.
>
>Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs)
>Portland, OR
>http://www.edt.com/homewing
>
True, but you can find metal supply houses in many cities that sell
"structural angle", with a radius. You need to be particular about
the alloy though, as these places normally carry several different
alloys.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 95% done)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: rollbar position |
In a message dated 12/3/00 7:57:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,
bicyclop(at)pacbell.net writes:
<< > >> I did the tall guy mods which moves the roll bar approximately 0.5"
forward
> >> and puts it on .250 thk stilts.
> >
> > I'm a short guy, didn't make this mod, but would if I ever built a
second RV.
>
> > Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
> > RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
Where is there information on this "tall guy mod"? >>
Strangely enough, Van's.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Insulated solderless ring crimp-on terminals |
In a message dated 12/3/00 6:46:28 PM Pacific Standard Time,
JDaniel343(at)AOL.COM writes:
<< I have been trying to find Crimp-on ring terminals for 8 AWG wire with a
#10
and 1/4" stud hole.
Can anyone help me out? >>
I probably have some uninsulated ones at the hangar, but have you tried the
local boating supplies store? FYI terminals of this size are usually not
insulated. Let me know if you strike out and I'll take a look for them.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank and Dorothy <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz> |
John wrote:
> I am still looking for a simple, reliable, and safe method to incorporate a
> rudder trim control in a flying RV.
Did you look at Jim Cone's system?
http://members.nbci.com/frankv/rv/bunny/rtrim.htm
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank and Dorothy <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: newbie (sort of) questions |
FK27Bob(at)AOL.COM wrote:
> I too would like to build both wings at once (when I get to that point).
> Would building two separate fixtures at right angles to each other and spaced
> far enough apart to walk around either end of either fixture pose any
> problems?
You probably don't need to walk round the inboard ends of the wing. If
it was me, I'd set up the fixtures so that the inboard ends were both
attached to the same post, at about the inboard rib position, with the
parts that go (eventually) into the fuselage overlapping each other. I
think rather than right angles, I'd make it about 135 degrees so that
your workbench would be within reach as per below.
> I have plenty of room for this option and I was thinking of placing
> my workbench in the corner created by the two fixtures.
Yup.
> That way I could just
> turn around and grab a tool when I need one, 'cause I know that tool will
> always be right there when I need it and not on the other side of the wing
> fixture.....
Or perhaps rivetted inside the other wing :-)
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terminaltown(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Insulated solderless ring crimp-on terminals |
In a message dated 12/3/00 9:15:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, Vanremog(at)AOL.COM
writes:
<< >>
You can find 8 GA. #10 non-insulated on our site. The page URL is
http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page18.html.
Best regards,
John @Terminal town
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming and Auto gas |
>I have had people say that the O320 160 hp engine which is a
>91-96 octane engine will run on 93 octane automotive fuel. I do not
>know if this is true.
I've been using 87 octane auto fuel in my airplanes for about 15
years and have enjoyed the cost savings. However, I've always had
the lower compression engines that were designed to run on 80
octane avfuels. During that period, I've read some discussions as to
how the 87 octane formula is different than the formulas for avfuels.
If I remember, one can run the 87 octane fuel through the avfuel
formula and come out at 82 octane. Remember 82UL? With that,
the fuel is still within the limits for those engines. Using that same
thinking, I'd find it hard to believe that the 91-93 octane fuels would
have enough octane to work for our higher compression engines
because the formulas used would probably place the avfuel
equivalent below the 90 octane level. Of course, this is all
speculative and is in no way cutting down the Petersen STCs. I've
had two of them in the past and was darned glad to be able to use
them.
BTW, in that fifteen years, I've never experienced stuck valves. I
found that the engine runs better due less lead fouling. I've had one
engine apart for overhaul during that period. The engine was torn
down for a cam problem, which I found out was the norm for the
O320 . We did replace the exhaust valves due to some pitting; but, I
was told that was also a normal thing for some engines. Mine had
sat for a while before I bought it; so, I suspect that some of the rust
was due to that because I flew it regularly and kept the oil in good
shape. It had about 400 hours of my flying it before the cam started
shedding metal. That was at about 1100 hours total time. It's got
over 500 hours on it since that overhaul and is still doing well.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (77+ on the tach. 150hp O320)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Andair Gascolator |
norman
a local builder, and a new list member, mounted his gascolator and fuel pump
between the wing and the fuse on the left side, it looks real sharp, not as
many connections in the cockpit, and no cooling blast tubes. i think i will
pattern mine after him.
scott
tampa rv6a
my engine is hung
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4-List: List Fund Raiser - December 1 List of Contributors... |
Matt,
I hope there was enough donating users to keep this service going... I
for one truly enjoy the help and camaraderie.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Can anybody that is flying an RV6/A identify with this particular |
chararcteristic that I noticed while flying my 6A today ?
> > > Today while flying a new passenger, I noticed a significant increase
>in > engine noise with my headsets on which made me think I had some type
>of > problem. On top of that, I felt a lot of vibration through the floor.
My RV8 does the same thing. The floor oil cans when it's heated up from the
exhaust. When I unload the floor by placing my feet up high on the pedals,
I get one type of exhaust tone, then when I put my heels back on the floor,
it changes the tone. It's not as bad with the thin carpet I put down there,
but still quite noticeable.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
158 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight of N331DH - RV6 - SN21754 |
Don,
CONGRATULATIONS & WELL DONE !!!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (Finishing wiring)
Niantic, CT
******************************8
>After 9 1/2 years RV6 - SN21754 - N331DH - No Pre-punch here - Made a safe
>first flight November 28, 2000.
>I have logged 5.2 hours as of this afternoon. I had not flown a while so I
>did some taxi test and flew with Larry Jenkins in his RV6. Larry and I are
>Technical Counselors for EAA chapter 182 Memphis TN. He also is a Flight
>Advisor. I could not of completed this project (Still Needs Paint) without
>the help of many friends like Larry and Most of all My Wife Helen. She
>shot
>90% of the rivets, I bucked, and she earned the H in 331DH for that and
>marrying me on 3/31/1972 - The 331 in 331DH. She got a surprise when Larry
>asks her if she would like to fly with him as he flew safety for me. That
>sure made the event even more enjoyable. She had never ridden in a RV so
>for
>her to watch me do what we had worked so hard for 9 1/2 years to do. Was
>better than I had planed. I did not tell many I was about to fly because I
>was not sure I would - I continued up to the last minute to say it would
>fly
>the 2nd Tuesday of next week. Uttering those words at the fuel pump as I
>toped off the tanks. These last few days have been wonderful!
>
>Thanks Van!
>
>Don Eaves
>Cordova TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Andair Gascolator |
Scott & fellow listers,
Anyone interested in using this setup (first advocated by Eustace Bowhay) can
view a very nice installation on the SE Florida RV Builders web site at:
http://www.eGroups.com/files/SEFlaRVbuilders/Fuel+System+Photos+%26+Drawings/
Click on the appropriate links to view these fuel system photos. Photos were
provided by lister Jon Ross as installed on his RV-8
Charlie Kuss
>
> norman
> a local builder, and a new list member, mounted his gascolator and fuel pump
> between the wing and the fuse on the left side, it looks real sharp, not as
> many connections in the cockpit, and no cooling blast tubes. i think i will
> pattern mine after him.
> scott
> tampa rv6a
> my engine is hung
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
--- John wrote:
>
> I am still looking for a simple, reliable, and safe method to
> incorporate a rudder trim control in a flying RV.
You've seen this, I guess?
http://www.mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page/ruddertrim.htm
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
N140RV (Reserved)
Canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william.a.crook(at)us.arthurandersen.com |
| Subject: | Delete remove me from list |
Please delete me name from the mailing list. Thanks.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
Instead of connecting the two rudder pedal return springs to hard points on the
fuselage, put two small pulleys there and cables connecting them together and
to a central pulley with friction or gears connected to a rudder trim control
Springs still need to be in the loop of course.
Finn
John wrote:
>
> I am still looking for a simple, reliable, and safe method to incorporate a
> rudder trim control in a flying RV.
>
> The things in the archives look interesting, but don't 'grab' me...I would
> appreciate any ideas.
Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Andair Gascolator |
charlie
the setup i'm talking about, has the fuel pump and the gascolator in the wing
root.
scott
tampa
rv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
Here's a possible variation. Only one adjusting pulley. Bolt or rivet an
arm to it. Connect the arm to a vernier control. Or, if you want to go
electric, connect to an MAC servo.
Finn
Mike Thompson wrote:
> You've seen this, I guess?
> http://www.mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page/ruddertrim.htm
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | eCharts <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 vs hawk |
> I am sorry to report that a hawk went
> THROUGH his windscreen on Sunday at Santa Maria.
First, kudos to Laird's for ending the situation with a nice and proper
landing.
Second, I've heard it said that most bird strikes in small and slow planes
are the result of the pilot seeing the bird at the last second and
attempting evasive manuevers to get away from it. The theory being that the
bird is very aware of the airplane and expects it to maintain a steady
course. When you chink the plane to get away, the bird is unable to
compensate fast enough and the strike happens. The suggestion was that if
you fly into a flock of birds to just keep the plane going straight and
steady and let the birds maintain their distance all by themselves.
Any comments on this? I'm wondering too if this was Laird's situation.
Either way, its a good thing this happened when he was slowed down for
landing, and not full throttle at 200+ mph.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Can anybody that is flying an RV6/A identify with this particular |
chararcteristic that I noticed while flying my 6A today ?
Hi Scott,
I'm glad the vibrations turned out to be nothing serious, but I enjoyed the
time we did get to fly.
I've been communicating with Jim Jewell recently and he sent me plans of a
floor modification that he's using (along with a couple of other
modification plans as well).
I've added those plans and pictures to my web site at;
http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page/JimJewellIdeas.htm
Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res)
Plainfield, IL
Skinning the Wings
http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
>
> For reference I have an RV6A with a Lycoming 0-360 with a Hartzel constant
> speed prop and 170TT on the plane and engine.
>
> Today while flying a new passenger, I noticed a significant increase in
> engine noise with my headsets on which made me think I had some type of
> problem. On top of that, I felt a lot of vibration through the floor.
Being
> cautious, I landed to check things out.
>
> After checking the prop tightness, engine mounts, firewall, floor
stringers,
> forward longeron attachements, mufflers, checked for smoking rivets on the
> bottom skins etc. I could find nothing wrong.
>
> So I went back up in the air and discovered something I had not noticed in
3
> years of flying my RV.
>
> If the pilot and passenger both lift their legs off the floor and place
them
> on the rudder pedals without having their heels touch the floor, their is
a
> significant amplification of cabin engine noise from the bottom of the
floor
> due to the engine power pulses. It is quite surprising. Noticeable but not
> as intense is if either the passenger or pilot shuffle their legs so that
> the floor is temporarily unweighted. Note that as the pilot I usually keep
> my feet on the rudder pedals with my heels firmly planted on the floor.
>
> I asked a friend of mine to repeat the experiment in his New 6A which is
> setup like mine and he was surprised to find out his does the same
> thing.Upon raising his feet off the floor, he said the cabin noise picked
up
> a good 10 decibels.
>
> I also figured out that the extra vibration I was feeling was do to the
fact
> that we had recently taken out a thick carpet and replaced it with a very
> thin piece of material that was glued to the aluminum, and I was wearing a
> set of shoes that had harder soles that transmitted the vibrations. (As a
> side note, the panel or sidewalls did not have any more vibration than
> normal.)
>
> After flying around for a couple hours at different speeds and RPM levels
> with two passengers I have flown in this plane for many hours, they both
> said the plane vibration felt normal, but they also never noticed the
> significant difference in noise when we lifted our feet off the floor. I
> find this absolutely unbelievable that neither I nor my two frequent
> passengers had not noticed this before in the past 3 years.
>
> Has anybody else experienced this ?
>
> scottjohnson345(at)home.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Dataplate |
12/04/2000 11:27:28 AM
I would get a second opinion. Don't remove the data plate as yet.
Dustin Norlund (at)matronics.com on 12/03/2000 04:33:52 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV-List: Engine Dataplate
Input needed,
Went to talk witht the DAR today about an inspection. He was asking about
engine and propeller. He said since i have a sterba wood prop on my lyc
0320-e2d i will have to remove my engine dataplate. I knew that i would
have
to have a 40 hour test time, but do i really have to remove the data plate?
I
can not find a single thing in the FARs about removal of a data plate due
to
this condition. I did find a reference to NOT removing the dataplate from
any
certificated part. What gives? Who and who does not have a data plate
here.
I would understand if the engine was not stock but this is a stock 0320e2d.
Dustin Norlund
Owasso, OK
RV6 - Taxi Testing, Sand Ridge Airpark, Collinsville OK
KD5JXZ - 2M, 440, APRS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Winters <dwinters(at)acraline.com> |
| Subject: | Angle for tie-down bars |
There were 2 pieces (don't remember the length) in my wing kit that were
specifically labelled as *longerons*. They are stored in my bedroom behind
my bed. They were noticibly longer than the others in the kit. Not a
chance I'll grab them by mistake.
I am slowly consuming the remainder of the stock for the wings, so here's
hopin' that I'm not using too much.
Don
(wings)
http://www.netusa1.net/~dtw50/index.html
-----Original Message-----
From: Are Barstad [mailto:abarstad(at)bconnex.net]
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 8:21 PM
Subject: RV-List: Angle for tie-down bars
I'm about to install the tie-down bars and not sure I have the right angle
stock for it. The plans call for .032 3/4x3/4. The only angle stock Van's
sent me (AFAIK) is 3, 12ft pieces that are marked in my packing list as
Longerons along with the 2. 15ft pieces.
Am I supposed to cut one of the 12' pieces? I'm obviously hesitant since I
don't want to scrap one of my longerons.
Are
RV-8 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
Thread-Topic: RV-List: RV-6 vs hawk
Thread-Index: AcBeGfm6eEvuOsgPR3mDvJTPK1K/rwAABfTw
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
I heard this saying again from a fellow RV pilot yesterday: If you're
turning to avoid a bird, you'll always turn the wrong way.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 63 hours
> compensate fast enough and the strike happens. The suggestion
> was that if
> you fly into a flock of birds to just keep the plane going
> straight and
> steady and let the birds maintain their distance all by themselves.
>
> Any comments on this? I'm wondering too if this was Laird's
> situation.
>
> Either way, its a good thing this happened when he was slowed down for
> landing, and not full throttle at 200+ mph.
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Care and feeding of your DAR (was: Engine Dataplate) |
I'm curious about the notion of debating, arguing with or requesting a
second opinion of your DAR. Does this so tick them off that they refuse
your airworthiness certificate? Does your project get put on hold while
you and the DAR wait for the second opinion, appeal, recount, etc? Do you
get to fly and talk about whatever hung you up at a later time? I wonder
how those who have gone before us would advise how to handle the DAR or FAA
person who inspects the plane.
I ran into a DAR wannabe once who said he was just aching to get hold of an
RV. He said that it was unsound to "rivet a dimple into a dimple." That
is, he said that a dimpled piece could not safely be riveted into another
dimpled piece. In his opinion, the only acceptable practice was to
countersink one and rivet to a clean hole in the other. He wanted to get a
RV so that he could fail it and bring an end to what he considered an
unairworthy practice.
I practiced the sensible act of remembering who he was so that I didn't
accidentally get him at inspection time.
These DAR guys scare me. I just want to fly and don't want to get into a
fight about dataplates, minimum equipment for a VFR bird, what kind of
compass I have, etc.
Steve Soule
Huntington, VT
Hoping to have MY RV-6A ready for inspection in March.
-----Original Message-----
I would get a second opinion. Don't remove the data plate as yet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Dataplate |
Dustin,
The answer is "NO". If the engine has not be modified itself then there is
no need. It doesn't matter what prop you put on. The determination is the
engine/prop combination, as you have said, as to the 25 or 40 hour test
flight program. The data plate on the engine is for just that, the engine.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
RV-8A N809RS
>From: Dustin Norlund <rv6(at)address.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Engine Dataplate
>Date: 3 Dec 00 15:33:52 CST
>
>
>Input needed,
>
>Went to talk witht the DAR today about an inspection. He was asking about
>engine and propeller. He said since i have a sterba wood prop on my lyc
>0320-e2d i will have to remove my engine dataplate. I knew that i would
>have
>to have a 40 hour test time, but do i really have to remove the data plate?
> I
>can not find a single thing in the FARs about removal of a data plate due
>to
>this condition. I did find a reference to NOT removing the dataplate from
>any
>certificated part. What gives? Who and who does not have a data plate
>here.
>I would understand if the engine was not stock but this is a stock 0320e2d.
>
>
>Dustin Norlund
>Owasso, OK
>RV6 - Taxi Testing, Sand Ridge Airpark, Collinsville OK
>KD5JXZ - 2M, 440, APRS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Care and feeding of your DAR (was: Engine Dataplate) |
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen J. Soule <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Date: Monday, December 04, 2000 12:38 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Care and feeding of your DAR (was: Engine Dataplate)
>
>I'm curious about the notion of debating, arguing with or requesting a
>second opinion of your DAR. Does this so tick them off that they refuse
>your airworthiness certificate? Does your project get put on hold while
>you and the DAR wait for the second opinion, appeal, recount, etc? Do you
>get to fly and talk about whatever hung you up at a later time? I wonder
>how those who have gone before us would advise how to handle the DAR or FAA
>person who inspects the plane.
>
>Steve Soule
>Huntington, VT
>Hoping to have MY RV-6A ready for inspection in March.
>
I asked around and talked to about eight local builders about their DARs and
FAA inspectors. That gave me a pretty good idea of the lay of the land. I
visited with one inspector at DuPage FISDO (near Chicago) in his office and
he helped me fill out the paperwork. I got the impression he liked to
inspect homebuilts and was fair. He later inspected my plane and all went
well.
I would certainly suggest getting some information on the guy who holds the
keys to your flying future! Ask other builders who they used or ask your
potential inspector what RVs he has inspected recently. The RV does deviate
from acceptable practices in a number of areas so it pays to find an
inspector who is aware that there are thousands of them flying and that they
constitute a safe design.
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 21 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Dataplate |
In that vain... I've been looking for an O-320 H2AD (anyone got one, drop
me a line) and I was told that the experimental ones (read that no data
plate) are a lot cheaper then certified. Working in a field where I am
aware of unscrupulous people, how do I know what I'm trying to buy isn't
stolen if the data plate is removed? Does Lycoming has serial numbers on
the block or heads or elsewhere?
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Dustin Norlund <rv6(at)address.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 3:33 PM
Subject: RV-List: Engine Dataplate
>
>
> Input needed,
>
> Went to talk witht the DAR today about an inspection. He was asking about
> engine and propeller. He said since i have a sterba wood prop on my lyc
> 0320-e2d i will have to remove my engine dataplate. I knew that i would
have
> to have a 40 hour test time, but do i really have to remove the data
plate? I
> can not find a single thing in the FARs about removal of a data plate due
to
> this condition. I did find a reference to NOT removing the dataplate from
any
> certificated part. What gives? Who and who does not have a data plate
here.
> I would understand if the engine was not stock but this is a stock
0320e2d.
>
>
> Dustin Norlund
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Care and feeding of your DAR (was: Engine Dataplate) |
12/04/2000 02:48:12 PM
Others have weighed in on the issue & the DAR in question is wrong. Based
on your input...I would find a way of educating him with out pissing him
off. He was in the wrong. This particular issue means real money in the
case you wanted to sell the engine at a later date, confirm if a AD or SB
is applies, new owner wondering what he has, or many other issues. If the
DAR is a @#$%$, I would look for another DAR.
"Stephen J. Soule" (at)matronics.com on 12/04/2000 01:32:05
PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RE: RV-List: Care and feeding of your DAR (was: Engine Dataplate)
I'm curious about the notion of debating, arguing with or requesting a
second opinion of your DAR. Does this so tick them off that they refuse
your airworthiness certificate? Does your project get put on hold while
you and the DAR wait for the second opinion, appeal, recount, etc? Do you
get to fly and talk about whatever hung you up at a later time? I wonder
how those who have gone before us would advise how to handle the DAR or FAA
person who inspects the plane.
I ran into a DAR wannabe once who said he was just aching to get hold of an
RV. He said that it was unsound to "rivet a dimple into a dimple." That
is, he said that a dimpled piece could not safely be riveted into another
dimpled piece. In his opinion, the only acceptable practice was to
countersink one and rivet to a clean hole in the other. He wanted to get a
RV so that he could fail it and bring an end to what he considered an
unairworthy practice.
I practiced the sensible act of remembering who he was so that I didn't
accidentally get him at inspection time.
These DAR guys scare me. I just want to fly and don't want to get into a
fight about dataplates, minimum equipment for a VFR bird, what kind of
compass I have, etc.
Steve Soule
Huntington, VT
Hoping to have MY RV-6A ready for inspection in March.
-----Original Message-----
I would get a second opinion. Don't remove the data plate as yet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Wing installation of Andair Gascolator |
Scott,
I would be interested in knowing how he did it. I must say I put a lot of
hours and purchased what seemed like endless fittings to do this very thing
and was unable to get it to fit. I wanted to keep the gasolator from
sticking out the bottom to far and have the fuel pump be at the prescribed
45 degree angle. The best I could do still had the fuel pump exit port
sticking up past the wing by about 1/2 inch. A special wing root fairing
would have probably covered it but I ended up with the gasolator outside and
the fuel pump inside. I used fittings to accomplish this rather than tubing
as shown recently.
Ross
6-A finishing
> a local builder, and a new list member, mounted his gascolator and fuel
pump
> between the wing and the fuse on the left side, it looks real sharp, not
as
> many connections in the cockpit, and no cooling blast tubes. i think i
will
> pattern mine after him.
> scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 9:17 PM
Subject: RV-List: Rudder Trim
>
> I am still looking for a simple, reliable, and safe method to incorporate
a
> rudder trim control in a flying RV.
>
> The things in the archives look interesting, but don't 'grab' me...I would
> appreciate any ideas.
>
> Thanks.
>
> RV6A Flying, Salida, CO
Hi John,
ever thought of building a new rudder with a trimtab as in your elevator?
you can use electric or manual control.
Also you're familiar with that type of construction, providing you've built
your own RV.
Marcel de Ruiter
RV4/G-RVMJ
ACFT Spraypainter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Birdstrike, Part Deux (long) |
socal-rvlist(at)egroups.com, "Tom DeMarino"
Hi all,
I guess Gary told you a little about my adventure yesterday. I thought I'd give
you some more information.
First off, thanks for all the off lists messages from everybody. It's comforting
and I appreciate all the kind thoughts and offer to help fix the airplane.
Now on to the gory details.
It started off as a flight of 3 RV-6's and a C-210 going to Santa Maria for a brunch
flight. Kim and Scott in the C-210 had a high cylinder temp warning on
climb out and had to turn back. The 3 RV's continued on. As we landed in Santa
Maria, Dwains RV-6 taxied in trailing oil on the tarmac. After he pulled the
cowl he found a leaking rocker gasket. An RV-8 pilot on the field just happened
to have a spare around, so he worked on that and got it fixed while the rest
of us had lunch. (Don't worry, we saved some for him).
We decided to fly out as a flight of 3 and do a formation low approach on the way
out. Paul Rosales and his wife, Victoria, were lead, my passenger, Lisa and
I were #2 on the right, and Dwain was #3 on the right. We formed up on the
crosswind leg and turned down wind at 1000' agl and 120 kts.
"RV flight cleared low approach".
Paul starts to roll on to base and start a decent. I'm keeping nice tight station
on Paul, and Dwain is right outside.
I hear "Bird!!" in the intercom at the same time it comes thru the windshield.
I only saw a blur right before it hit.
A HUGE bang and shudder, flying plexiglass, and lots of wind.
I look up to see a huge hole in the right side of the windshield, and Lisa's head
is down in her hands. I can't see her face.
OH ****!!!
I pulled the throttle to idle and drop away from the flight. I do a quick check
to see if I have full control. OK.....I've got an airplane. If I can get it
slowed down I can still make the runway.
"MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY"
"RV 515L has just taken a hawk thru the canopy"
"RV cleared to land any runway, emergency trucks are rolling".
A quick look over to check on Lisa. I hadn't noticed that her headsets had gotten
taken off in the impact. I still can't see her face, as she's holding her
forehead and bent down out of the wind. I do see some blood. I get her attention
and all I get is a thumbs up from under her brown curly hair. Good....Let's
get this thing on the ground.
"Please send an ambulance as well."
Were close to FE speed, Flaps down...Airspeed is starting to bleed off. Good.....75
on final for security, over the threshold, and I look up to see Paul over
fly on the right. Comforting.
Easy on the flair, a little bounce, off at the first available taxi way.
"Tower, where should I meet the trucks?"
"There rolling to your right"
"Roger"
Pull the mixture and shut off the mags as they pull up.
I look over at Lisa and she finally looks up at me. I see these big puppy dog eyes
looking back. She's asking how bad is it with her eyes. There is blood running
down her nose and on her hand, but she's all in one piece. I say your going
to be "fine". It's not that bad. You'll be fine....
I look back and see the hawk impaled in between the rear baggage bulkhead and the
canopy and lots of blood. Fortunately, the birds, not ours. Let's see if
the canopy will open. Yup...Good.
The trucks are right in front of me and there already attending to Lisa. These
guys are good. The ambulance rolls up a couple of minutes later.
A cautious crew put her on the backboard and stabilized her neck. Her cuts to the
forehead are minor and it's just a precaution, but it looks like were going
to the ER. Somebody asked about me. Jeez, I hadn't even thought about that.
A quick survey and no injuries at all.
Paul and Dwain had landed and were starting to survey the damage. I was more concerned
about Lisa and went with her in the ambulance after exchanging cell phone
numbers.
While I was attending to Lisa at the ER, Dwian and Paul attended to the wounded
RV. I mentioned to them that if the damage is only the windscreen, that I'd
ferry it back home after we got Lisa checked out. Lisa would ride with Dwain.
They went to work and duct taped the sharp edges on windscreen, cleaned up all
the blood (I hope they got a picture), and secured all loose items in my plane,
as well as stop drilling the cracks in the remaining windshield.
By the time we got a taxi ride back to the airport, it was getting late. Not much
time to talk and relive the memory. The three of us look over the RV and
determine that it's airworthy. I'll just have to fly slow. Paul will follow
me home, and Dwain will get Lisa back home quickly.
A quick check on downwind to make sure the RV is going to be safe to fly home,
and the flight was uneventfully cold and windy in the cockpit until we had just
passed Santa Paula at 3500' (I was staying a little low for warmth).
Another "BANG" and a huge vibration in the stick. What NOW!
Pull the power again, and start to turn for Santa Paula. As the airspeed starts
to decay and I'm looking at the airplane, I notice that the rear canopy skirt
had become unlodged from the retaining pin, and the canopy skirt was hanging
out in the breeze. I slow to 90kts and the buffeting is gone.
Yew....OK, deep breath, and lets get this thing home. And no more problems on
the short flight home. (Boy, is cruising at 90 kts slow!)
I make a terrible landing at my home base just as it's getting dark. As I pull
off I see my father standing next to the taxi way. He's come to check up on
his boy and the airplane.
As we get back to the hangar, we starting surveying the damage.
Besides the giant hole in the right side of the windscreen, there's a good sized
dent in the right side of the leading edge of the stab, and one smaller one
in the leading edge of the rudder. These were made from the broken plexiglass
departing the airplane.
The rear slider track is bent as is the upper fuse skin, just below the canopy
skirt. The composite canopy skirt is cracked in several places were there was
filler over some pop rivets, but, mercifully, the main canopy doesn't have any
cracks.
And there is still that dent on the leading edge from the sparrow a month earlier.
As I'm sitting in the hangar (drinking a much deserved beer) I'm looking at the
airplane and it occurred to me that I wasn't depressed or mad, just kinda happy
in a strange way.
Happy to be alive, and that Lisa wasn't more seriously injured. She did a great
job of not panicing and had a great outlook through the whole ordeal. Dwain
let her fly most of the way home (she's an privat pilot and working on her instrument
ticket), and she's promised to get back in the left seat soon. Good
girl...
It's close calls like this that help to sort out the bigger picture of life, I
guess, as I hardly slept at all last night, thinking about the "what if's".....
Through all of this, I'd really like to say a big "Thanks" to Dwain, Paul, Victoria
for all the help. I'd be up a creek without you guys. RV flyers are the
best! Same goes to the Santa Maria crew.
That's all for now, I gotta call the FSDO and Avemco.
We'll talk with you soon, and I'll put some pictures up on the web in the next
day or so.
If there are any artists out there, I'd love to get a good silhouette of a hawk
and a sparrow for the side of the fuselage ;-)
Laird (wounded RV-6)
SoCal
PS Apparently Lisa has had a new call sign given to her...."Lady Hawk".
I like it....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
I heard this saying again from a fellow RV pilot yesterday: If you're
>turning to avoid a bird, you'll always turn the wrong way.
Yeah; man, I don't know. I have been hot upon birds here in the last
several months more times than I remember being in the past several years.
I had heard to always go UP, as a bird is going to go down as a first
defense. But I have seen birds go up in front of me. Most times, by the
time I have a notion to do anything, the bird has roared by. Yesterday for
example. Like Andy says, just flying on ahead may be the best answer. Most
birds (turkey buzzards may be the exception) seem to make really FAST moves
to get out of my way, much faster than I could move the airplane. May be
like avoiding a crash in front of you in auto racing: just keep going
straight; by the time you get there the wreck may be out of your way.
Avoiding bird strikes may be the same.
Laird: did you maneuver to get out of the bird's way? Way to go getting
back on the ground! Bummer on the canopy.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming and Auto gas |
>2) Lubrication of valves- I've got no answer for this one- maybe someone
>knows how all those old cars run on UL gas?
Leaded fuel helps with valve seats, but, as opposed to popular wife's tale,
does not contribute to lubricating valve stems.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Dataplate |
>Went to talk witht the DAR today about an inspection. He was asking about
>engine and propeller. He said since i have a sterba wood prop on my lyc
>0320-e2d i will have to remove my engine dataplate.
Man, I wish these guys would get their collective acts together. It seems
like the old GADO act, where you had to pick and choose your GADO office
for -337 and STC approval. Something simple, this one was OK. Something
complex, go to that one. FSDO's is just another name.
These DAR's with a chip on their shoulders or with an increased sense of
their position in the universe need to be identified and avoided. Not sure,
other than word of mouth, how to do that. Seems like the EAA would be
helpful. I read where there is a move to get the FSDO's to do the inspections.
My -4 is flying fat and happy with a Warnke prop and a data plate on a
stock O-320-D1A.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mcooper727(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Dataplate |
I agree about the second opinion. For what it's worth, my first project was
a Q-200 with an O-200 and a Warp Drive prop. The inspector didn't mention
anything about removing the data plate, same with my Skybolt with an IO-540
and a custom wood prop.
Marcus Cooper
RV-6 #2 on the way.
Input needed,
Went to talk witht the DAR today about an inspection. He was asking about
engine and propeller. He said since i have a sterba wood prop on my lyc
0320-e2d i will have to remove my engine dataplate. I knew that i would
have
to have a 40 hour test time, but do i really have to remove the data plate?
I
can not find a single thing in the FARs about removal of a data plate due
to
this condition. I did find a reference to NOT removing the dataplate from
any
certificated part. What gives? Who and who does not have a data plate
here.
I would understand if the engine was not stock but this is a stock 0320e2d.
Dustin Norlund
Owasso, OK
RV6 - Taxi Testing, Sand Ridge Airpark, Collinsville OK
KD5JXZ - 2M, 440, APRS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 vs hawk |
> When you chink the plane to get away, the bird is unable to
> compensate fast enough and the strike happens.
Also remember that birds are briefed to break _down_.
If you jink (given airspeed), jink up. This will also cause the cowl
to screen somewhat the windshield from straight-on "traffic".
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 vs hawk |
>
--snip--
>
> Second, I've heard it said that most bird strikes in small and slow planes
> are the result of the pilot seeing the bird at the last second and
> attempting evasive manuevers to get away from it. The theory being that the
> bird is very aware of the airplane and expects it to maintain a steady
> course.
I'm not so certain about the theory, but this has been my experience.
As you probably know, when you are on a collision course with something it
stays in the same position in your field of view. That is, it grows in
perspective, but doesn't have movement relative to you. That's what makes
it hard to see something you're on a collision course with. Birds are
small, making the problem worse. At speeds above 200 kt I haven't seen
the bird at all until it was too late for me to react. Fortunately, so
far they've always gone by. The only time I've had a near miss with a
bird below 200 kt was at very low speed just after take-off (perhaps 60 or
70 kt). In that case, the birds were visible for quite some time, and I
made very deliberate maneouvres to steer between them, which worked.
I'm not sure what would happen between 70 and 200 kt, which is right were
RVs spend most of their time. But I would say that if you zoom or turn to
avoid a bird and subsequently collide with it, at fairly high speed, you
probably weren't on a collision course with it before you made the
maneouvre. At lower speeds, though, when you have a few seconds to
observe the bird's flight path and take action, I wouldn't hesitate to
make a maneouvre.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Christie" <billc(at)dancris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle for tie-down bars |
I have bought "extra" angle from local metal distributors and they asked
whether I wanted structural or architectual angle. It turns out the
structural is the one that Vans uses, the other has the sharp corner and can
also be had at Home Depot for a fair amount more money. I saved a bit by
just buying a couple of the scrap pieces left from cuts off a 20 foot piece.
Bill Christie, Rv8A, fus., Phoenix
----- Original Message -----
From: Randall Henderson <randallh(at)home.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Angle for tie-down bars
>
> > Check locally for a AL angle supplier. There's nothing magic about the
> > unimproved stock Van's sells, is there?
>
> Well, yes, there is, sort of. It's aircraft grade angle which means it has
a
> radius on the inside corner. Hardware store stuff generally just has a
sharp
> inside angle.
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs)
> Portland, OR
> http://www.edt.com/homewing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent S. Himsl" <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com> |
| Subject: | Angle for tie-down bars |
In your bill of materials there should be a special notice stating that the
2 extra long pieces of angle are for the fuselage and were shipped with the
wing kit for convenience. You should have also received the fuselage spar
carry through items and drawings (11 and 18 I think). Anyway, don't cut
those two extra long angles!!!!!
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8 fuselage
Moscow, ID
USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | 10% for Matronics results |
This year's 10% for Matronics fundraiser is over. 14 people took part creating
a
total contribution of $80.82. Thanks to all who participated, and thank you Matt
for giving us this excellent service.
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
http://buildersbooks.com
eCharts
http://eCharts.cc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Henderson <randall(at)edt.com> |
| Subject: | vans's has lost some on-line orders |
Listers,
Was just checking some stuff out on Van's web site and saw on the front
page that they lost a bunch of orders due to a computer problem.
Someone may have already posted a message about this to the list,
although I don't believe Van's has. You'd really think they'd want to
use the list for something like THIS even if they don't want to bother
with it for other stuff. Oh well... Anyway if you've made any online
orders to Van's between November 23 and December 1 2000, you will want
to go to their web site and read the notice.
- rh
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Care and feeding of your DAR (was: Engine Dataplate) |
I was wondering how much do these "DAR's" charge to do an inspection.
Cash Copeland
QB #60075
RV6 N46FC (Reserved)
Oakland, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
snipped portion about birds
Laird: did you maneuver to get out of the bird's way? Way to go getting
back on the ground! Bummer on the canopy.
snip
Michael,
Thanks for the compliment about getting it down, but I only did what instantly
came into mind. I didn't have time to think about it. I never had a doubt about
getting it on the ground, but my passenger sure did, as she told me later.
As far as maneuvering on the bird, I only saw him a nanosecond before he so rudely
came on board. I couldn't even tell you which direction he was moving, so
I had no opportunity to do anything. Since I was #2 in a three ship formation,
I'm almost glad I didn't see it coming. If I had made some kind of change
of direction, I could have caused a mid air. That could have been even worse.
I did the first installation on the canopy....I can get thru another one. The
end goal is worth it.
Laird
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Welch" <vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
To those of you flying, have you really found rudder trim to be
necessary?
Vince Welch
RV-8A Wings
Roaming Shores, Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "marcel de ruiter" <marcelderuiter(at)email.msn.com>
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder Trim
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 9:17 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Rudder Trim
>
>
> >
> > I am still looking for a simple, reliable, and safe method to
incorporate
> a
> > rudder trim control in a flying RV.
> >
> > The things in the archives look interesting, but don't 'grab'
me...I would
> > appreciate any ideas.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > RV6A Flying, Salida, CO
>
>
> Hi John,
>
> ever thought of building a new rudder with a trimtab as in your
elevator?
> you can use electric or manual control.
> Also you're familiar with that type of construction, providing
you've built
> your own RV.
>
> Marcel de Ruiter
> RV4/G-RVMJ
> ACFT Spraypainter
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Care and feeding of your DAR (was: Engine Dataplate) |
It varies from DAR to DAR and is entirely up to them. I think the going
rate is around $550 for an initial certification of an Experimental aircraft
but don't hold me to that. I could be way off.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
RV-8A N809RS
>From: JusCash(at)AOL.COM
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Care and feeding of your DAR (was: Engine Dataplate)
>Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 17:45:31 EST
>
>
>I was wondering how much do these "DAR's" charge to do an inspection.
>
>Cash Copeland
>QB #60075
>RV6 N46FC (Reserved)
>Oakland, Ca
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Care and feeding of your DAR (was: Engine Dataplate) |
Thanks Mike
Cash Copeland
QB #60075
RV6 N46FC (Reserved)
Oakland, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim(is it necessary) |
In a message dated 12/4/00 6:25:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
vwelch(at)knownet.net writes:
> To those of you flying, have you really found rudder trim to be
> necessary?
>
> Vince Welch
> RV-8A Wings
> Roaming Shores, Ohio
No, but I believe it would sure be nice!!! If I become a repeat offender, I
will do it next time.
Bernie,6A 60 hours, SE Fla
Bernie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Timothy Myrtle <tmyrtle(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 vs hawk |
Not sure if this has come up before, but has anyone
thought about creating a windscreen that could
withstand a bird strike?
-Tim Myrtle
Sonoma, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 vs hawk |
Yes. Boeing and Douglas did. They cost megabucks and are heavy. On the
lighter side, I once say a video of the testing folks shooting dead chickens
out of an air-cannon at the windows to see what would happen. It was quite
humerous to watch even knowing how serious the testing was.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A N809RS
>From: Timothy Myrtle <tmyrtle(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 vs hawk
>Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:14:12 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>Not sure if this has come up before, but has anyone
>thought about creating a windscreen that could
>withstand a bird strike?
>
>-Tim Myrtle
>Sonoma, CA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com> |
Vince:
Rudder trim is necessary, in my opinion (I can just see Van's eyes rolling
back). Having flown my RV-4 for some time, here's what happens: the climb
out is not so bad because it just takes a heavy right foot, but the descent
is something else. I make it a habit to start my descents about 25-30 miles
out, with cruise power all the way down (I ususally cruise 7,500-8500').
This puts you up close to red line (210 mph). The left rudder you need for
this is considerable--a knee shaker for about the last 10 minutes of flight.
This is assuming that your aircraft is trimmed for cruise flight. Anyway,
what I did was put an electric trim tab in my RV-6 rudder (a la elevator
trim tab). Wasn't a big deal at all.
Oh yeah, and don't forget to make those clearing turns on the way down! The
canopy is great but you can't see below (fly safe folks, please).
Pat Hatch
RV-4, N17PH @ VRB, 700 hrs. TT
O-320, Hartzell C/S
RV-6, Fuselage
O-360, Hartzell C/S
pat_hatch(at)msn.com
>
> To those of you flying, have you really found rudder trim to be
> necessary?
>
> Vince Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mcooper727(at)cs.com |
Laird,
I would also like to add my congratulations on a job well done handling
the birdstrike. Of particular note was the added problem of being in close
formation and in the landing pattern, your prioritization was outstanding and
worth noting. First you flew the airplane and then communicated your
intentions and requirements to help your passenger. Outstanding SA and
focusing on what was important at the moment. Many accidents have occured
because that didn't happen. Well done sir.
Marcus Cooper
RV-6 #2 on the way
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Canon Connectors |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
After I bought one from ASOD, I went to Jenco Co. just out of Dallas. I
needed to pull the pins & replace them.
The boys at the shop said there is not a catolog, but they have a CD. HE
gave me 10 his & hers pins. I could see connectors in boxes as far as I
could see down the building. I think there are thousands of plugs, each
with different pins & extraction/insertion tools. Likely a bunch of
different crimpers also.
My experts & me have broken 3 extraxtion tools & I don't have any wires
out yet. Bernie just sent me copies of some spec pages, so I may learn
from that.
Don Jordan RV6A Arlington, Tx
*****************************************
writes:
>
>
> Rick,
>
> You're right about it being confusing. The wall mount plugs have a
> flange on them usually with screw mount holes. But even that can get
> confusing because there are wall plugs that will have different barrel
lengths
> for mounting on one side or the other of the wall. I know that sounds
> crazy but I've seen them. Then there are screw in plugs and then
quarter turn
> plugs. It goes on and on. This is one of those areas where I have
found it
> easier to find a local industrial electronics shop and tell them
exactly
> what I want.
>
> Now if I just wasn't in Hawaii where they don't even know what I'm
> talking
> about half the time, let alone have any type of selection, Ha, Ha.
>
> Mike Robertson
> RV-8A N809RS
> 6.1 hours
>
>
> >From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: "RV-list"
> >Subject: RV-List: Canon Connectors
> >Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 16:14:25 -0700
> >
> >
> >The thread on using Canon connectors to transverse the firewall
> sounds intriguing. The Newark Electronics catalog has a bunch of
> sizes/shapes. Can someone educate me as to exactly what the procedure
and/or
> >connector type is? As an example, there is something called a
> "wall mount receptacle". Is this mounted on the firewall? Which side?
> Any verbiage that doesn't leave me dangling or dimpled would be
> appreciated.
> >Rick Jory RV8A QB
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Burch" <rv6man(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim(is it necessary) |
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rv660wm(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder Trim(is it necessary)
>
> In a message dated 12/4/00 6:25:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> vwelch(at)knownet.net writes:
>
> > To those of you flying, have you really found rudder trim to be
> > necessary?
> >
This is crazy. A proper rigged RV does not need rudder trim.
Alittle right in climb is all. I dont understand this idea of having to use
a bunch of left rudder during descent. If my RV6 did this I would be
looking for something wrong.Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Left Hand Drill Bits |
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
> Snap On tools sell them.
> They are primarily used to drill out broken bolts<<
>
> Also to drill holes for left hand taps.
HUH?? Whats the connection here?
Cecil Hatfield
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
| Subject: | Re: RV Insurance Emotional. |
I pay $1030.00 for 35k coverage.I don't want to take a hit for the
total loss.I am with Bodi&Wachs of Wakegan.Phone (847)249-5350
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: newbie (sort of) questions |
>6) Any old aircraft maintainers vouch that alclad alone is good enough in
>high humidity areas over a long time?
Come on over to the airport and I can show you two good-looking (from 30
feet) Cessna 170-A's that can't be (economically) repaired from the
INTERNAL corrosion. Pop an inspection cover and it looks like someone shook
a bag of powdered sugar in there from the corrosion. If you live in a
high-humidity area, do what you can to make your airplane last forever.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: weight and balance |
Paul,
I can't help you with the tail dragger, but my rotary powered RV-6A has
the following W&B
Weight and Balance for RV-6A N494BW
Design CG Range FWD 68.7 AFT 76.8
C.G.
Component Arm Weight Moment
Right Wheel 84.25 420 35385
Left Wheel 84.125 420 35332.5
Nose Wheel 28.5 330 9405
Fuel 70 0 0
Pilot 87.4 0 0
Passenger 87.4 0 0
Baggage 117 0 0
CG Empty Weight
68.48 1170 80122.5
As you can see, I weight roughly 100 lbs heavier than a light VFR RV-6A
(full IFR) and my empy C.G is slight forward of the design limit. Van's
expressed no concerned over the slight forward C.G, were more concerned
about the weight. I also had two 25 AH Concord RG batteries (44 lbs
total)which I have since replace with two Odyssedy batters (total 30 lbs).
As predicted by a forward C.G the aircraft is very stable, probably
slightly slower, and stalls at 58 indicated. No problem on the flare
(plenty of elevator autority for that). I have since had the aircraft
painted which probably put more weight toward the tail which I suspect
probably brings the bird just inside the design limit. The aircraft exceeds
its gross weight before it exceeds its aft C.G design limit.
Hope this helps.
Ed Anderson
Matthews, NC
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul johns" <johnsy(at)tpg.com.au>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 4:38 AM
Subject: RV-List: weight and balance
>
> Hi,
> Have an RV6 completed and would like to know some other aircraft weights
> for the mains and tailwheel. Ours has an alloy V8 and is a little bit
> nose heavy.
> Paul
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sticking Brakes |
There was a time when there were some short Cleveland master cylinder
return springs shipped in error. The archives will have the details, but,
the bottom line is make sure your springs are the LONG springs and not the
short ones; otherwise your master cylinder will not be pushed back enough.
It depends on when your kit was shipped. There is a certain length (in
inches) which you have to measure with the spring OFF of the brake. Van's
probably has the measurement for the correct spring. I had the short ones.
I e-mailed Vans and they shipped me a new set for no charge.
This may have nothing to do with your problem, by the way.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich <houndsfour(at)mediaone.net> |
Hi all,
I have a question for the Illinois RVers.
When a friend of mine started to register his Glass Star with the FAA, he
received
a form to fill out before he can register the airplane in Ill., this form it
turns out
is a TAX DUE form for aircraft.
My question is, Have any of you Ill. builders paid the "sales tax". If not
did
you register your airplane? I'm at the point of sending in my paper work to
the
feds. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Rich
Need an inspection and good weather for first flight
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: weight and balance |
Paul,
My -6 weighed 1057 # with an O-320/Hartzell CS prop, VFR instruments, S-Cowling,
Full paint fairings. I believe the tail weighed 60 #.
Rick Caldwell
-6 162 hrs Melbourne, FL
From: paul johns <JOHNSY(at)TPG.COM.AU>
Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
To: rv-list
Subject: RV-List: weight and balance
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 09:38:32 +0000
-- RV-List message posted by: paul johns
Hi,
Have an RV6 completed and would like to know some other aircraft weights
for the mains and tailwheel. Ours has an alloy V8 and is a little bit
nose heavy.
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Rudder Counterbalance |
Hi freinds,
Just finished up empennage! Except the glass. Fitted elevators and rudder and
everything fits
great. It was fun to see it all together. The rudder seems to be way light.
All my
counterweights where the same number and size, so I don't think I used the wrong
one. Any ideas
would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Jack
Getting ready for wings
Des Moines, IA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joe wiza <jwiza1(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming and Auto gas date.) |
I have an 0360 A1D. Is anyone using auto fuel and if
so with what results and what conversions. Thanks
ahead
JoeRV6A 130 hrs
--- "BOBE." wrote:
> (BOBE.)
>
> You may be right about 8 to 1 but H pistons 9 to1 do
> not like auto
> gas.This could wreck your engine.
>
>
>
> support the
> Lists
> moment to
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Sheehan <ctsheehan(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Counterbalance |
Are you building a -6 or an -8?
The rudder counterbalance is the same as the weight for the .020
elevator skins (which the -8 uses). If you're building a -6 which has
.016 skins the elevator counterweights are smaller, but the rudder still
uses the larger .020 weight.
Either way I seem to recall seeing somewhere that the rudder is NOT 100%
counterbalanced. The original -6 design of course has NO counterbalance.
Chris
-6 (also waiting for wings)
pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
>
> Hi freinds,
> Just finished up empennage! Except the glass. Fitted elevators and rudder and
everything fits
> great. It was fun to see it all together. The rudder seems to be way light.
All my
> counterweights where the same number and size, so I don't think I used the wrong
one. Any ideas
> would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Jack
> Getting ready for wings
> Des Moines, IA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Unibit in an Airdrill |
The unibit holes I've drilled during my project are top notch. Much cleaner
that the standard drill bit holes. All have been done using a slow drill
press.
Just another point of view...
Larry Bowen
RV-8, starting gear boxes
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gerald
> Richardson
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 10:19 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Unibit in an Airdrill
>
>
> Personally I would never use anything like that in the construction of an
> aircraft. The unibit was developed for use in the electrical
> trade for a quick
> and dirty hole, where precision is not required. Your best bet
> is to buy a
> complete set of numbered and fractional drills.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: weight and balance |
> empty C.G is slight forward of the design limit. Van's
> expressed no concerned over the slight forward C.G, were more concerned
> about the weight.
My FAA man almost wouldn't sign off my 6A because the empty CG was slightly
forward of the design limit. I convinced him that this was only an
operational problem if it was being flown by a pilot whose weight did not
load the airplane within the envelope. As I recall, the numbers we ran hat
day showed that any pilot heavier than about forty pounds brought the CG aft
sufficiently. Neither of us knew any jockey types with a private certificate
who weighed under 40 pounds, so he signed me off. I was not playing any
Clintonesque word-games with the regs by pointing this out to the Fed; the
point is that the airplane, as loaded, must be between the fwd and aft limits
for c.g. An enmpty CG forward of the design limit is not an issue unless you
attempt to fly the plane with no one aboard. Only persons who improperly
hand-prop an airplane by themselves are likekly to attempt such a flight. ;-)
Am I right about this? Run a W&B calcualtion with a pilot in the seat and
I'll bet you come out fine.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A O-320/FP Sensenich
Hop-Along Airfield - 12VA
Clifton Forge, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 vs hawk |
Tedd McHenry wrote:
>
>
> >
> --snip--
> >
> > Second, I've heard it said that most bird strikes in small and slow planes
> > are the result of the pilot seeing the bird at the last second and
> > attempting evasive manuevers to get away from it. The theory being that the
> > bird is very aware of the airplane and expects it to maintain a steady
> > course.
>
> I'm not so certain about the theory, but this has been my experience.
>
> The only time I've had a near miss with a
> bird below 200 kt was at very low speed just after take-off (perhaps 60 or
> 70 kt). In that case, the birds were visible for quite some time, and I
> made very deliberate maneouvres to steer between them, which worked.
>
> Tedd McHenry
> Surrey, BC
>
I have a theory on this and it is that you are more exposed to
a bird strike at a low speed than you are at a high speed. I know
that it is possible at any speed but low speed seems to be where
they happen the most. I used to do a lot of formation flying with
my hanger partner in his RV-6 and we found that when passing under
the other RV the air pressure ahead of the lower RV would push up
the other RV even up to 40-50 ft or more. This tells me that at
higher speeds there is enough air deflection around the airplane
that it actually helps push a bird out of the way of an aircraft,
especially around the canopy area. I have come close to hawks
in-flight at cruise and it looks as if they are actually pushed
away from the airplane. I did hit a seagull one time with
my Piper Pacer while on final approach and it does make a mess.
Laird so glad that you and friend are ok. My theory is that, they
make airplanes everyday, but it is hard to replace good people.
Jerry Springer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Spenner" <spenner(at)olimpo.com.br> |
| Subject: | Re: dumb questions |
Progressive Air Services Ltd.
Kamloops, B. C. V2B 7W8
( 250 ) 376-6226
Mr. Brad Ford
I reserched more tham twenty companies, and they have
the best prices and services.
Werner
RV-6A
Brazil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Spenner" <spenner(at)olimpo.com.br> |
| Subject: | Re: Canon Connectors |
In the Bob Nucklos web site you will find a link to the Aero-Eletric
Conector, Inc., they carry MIL-26482 Cannon Plugs.
Werner
RV-6A
Brazil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> |
| Subject: | Angle for tie-down bars |
I'm about to install the tie-down bars and not sure I have the right angle
stock for it. The plans call for .032 3/4x3/4. The only angle stock Van's
sent me (AFAIK) is 3, 12ft pieces that are marked in my packing list as
Longerons along with the 2. 15ft pieces.
Am I supposed to cut one of the 12' pieces? I'm obviously hesitant since I
don't want to scrap one of my longerons.
Are
RV-8 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike1769(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Left Hand Drill Bits |
Snap On tools sell them.
They are primarily used to drill out broken bolts
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV Insurance Emotional. |
In a message dated 12/2/2000 5:37:02 PM Central Standard Time,
brucegray(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< That's not the way mine works. I placed a fixed value on the hull of my
Glasair
III. My insurance company had an opportunity to challenge my valuation. They
did
not and charged me a hull rate of my value times their hull rate per
thousand. If
I total my airplane, they damn well better write me a check for the face
amount of
my hull coverage. Market value does not play any part in the amount of the
settlement. Perhaps in cars but not in planes.
BTW, I've read my policy from cover to cover and it does not mention market
value
anywhere.
>>
Better take a look again. This is in there somewhere for one simple reason.
Why, you ask. To keep you from insuring the aircraft for more then its
worth. For instance if you insure your aircraft for 200,000 and its only
worth 100,000 there not going to give you 200,000 no matter how much you beg.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Judd <sjudd(at)ffd2.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Last Call............) |
>
> I would also like to add that I belong to a couple other internet lists just
Shame on you.
Contributing to Matt has nothing to do with some imaginary legal contract,
or abstract philosophical concept.
Regardless of how many pretend lawyers try to parse the meaning of the
word "free", Matt is not some charity that exists for the benefit of a few
RV builders, and the rv-list does not simply exist on its own. Donating
to Matt is a way of expressing appreciation for all the _hard work_ he
does for the list -- for the RV community.
And it is more than that. The list is a kind of community, that exists
because of the voluntary contributions of the members of the community.
Some people contribute their time, some contribute their expertise, some
contribute humor and good cheer, and at least some contribute a modest
amount of money. "Voluntary" and "Contribution" are the key ideas here.
Finally, whereas Al's posts have been witty and noble, the only whining
I've seen is from three sanctimonious cheapskates who don't seem to
realize just how foolish they've made themselves look in front of
hundreds, if not thousands, of RV builders.
Disgusted,
-Steve
Go right ahead and archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel Estrada F." <dani_estrada(at)infosel.net.mx> |
Hello:
Finally, after buy little by little my tools, compressor, etc., I could
drill that first hole in my empenage kit.
Every thing is ok and now I am priming my kit with VARY-PRIME from
DuPont...can you tell me if I choose the right primer...? and How good is
it..?
thank you
Daniel Estrada F.
Mexico City
RV6A Emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rollbar position |
| From: | "Robert Dickson" <bubba(at)coastalnet.com> |
I'm in the process of positioning the wd-641 rollbar (RV-6A slider). When I
position the aft edge of the tube at 3 1/8 behind the f-604 as called for in
the plans (what few there are for this process), it doesn't look like
there's enough space for the an3 bolt that goes forward of the 604. Can I
move the rollbar forward some to provide the needed space/edge distance? It
looks like maybe 1/8" might do it.
Also, any tips on where the rollbar brace should meet the f-6108 rib? It
looks like as long as it's aft of the 6105 subpanel that it will be ok, but,
once again, the plans/instructions leave a lot to the imagination. And,
amazingly enough, I didn't find a whole lot in the archive.
Robert Dickson
RV-6A QB
waiting for the storm in NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: rollbar position |
In a message dated 12/2/00 11:25:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Vanremog(at)AOL.COM writes:
> << I'm in the process of positioning the wd-641 rollbar (RV-6A slider). When
> I
> position the aft edge of the tube at 3 1/8 behind the f-604 as called for in
> the plans (what few there are for this process), it doesn't look like
> there's enough space for the an3 bolt that goes forward of the 604. Can I
> move the rollbar forward some to provide the needed space/edge distance? It
> looks like maybe 1/8" might do it. >>
>
> I did the tall guy mods which moves the roll bar approximately 0.5" forward
> and puts it on .250 thk stilts.
I'm a short guy, didn't make this mod, but would if I ever built a second RV.
My answers to the original poster's two questions...
First: 1/8" fore or aft won't matter much in installation of the roll bar.
There are so many factors in the assembly of the canopy/windshield, that you
can accomodate 1/8" in virtually any direction...
Second: The roll bar brace does need to go aft of the sub panel. On mine,
the flat part that gets bolted to the center rib almost reached the sub
panel, but not quite. I probably have 3/4 inch between the brace and the
windshield.
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank and Dorothy <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: newbie (sort of) questions |
Matt Decker wrote:
> 1. Most people probably have limited building space. Two wing jigs take
> up a considerable amount of room. Also, one wing at a time is enough to
> keep a person more than busy.
I built both my wings at once on a back-to-back jig, in a single garage.
It required pretty much all of the single garage.
If I was doing it again, I'd arrange two jigs at about 135 degrees or
so, so that I could get at both sides of both wings without crawling
around.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ersf2b(at)oregoncoast.com |
| Subject: | VM1000 extra terminals |
Ralph, I installed a VM1000 in a RV-8. And checked into the extra terminal
price. I thought they were gouging. So I checked into terminals through an
ele. supply company. And found the very thing we need. All my wires are now
connected with six (?) terminals. The problem is, I am at work and will not
be able to get you the part numbers until next weekend.
Ed Storo RV-8----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 8:09:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: VM 1000
>
> Extra Terminals???
>
> Maybe I've missed something as my VM1000 did not come with the part
numbers
> listed. It looks like the rest of the stuff was there though...
>
> Ralph Capen
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming and Auto gas |
In a message dated 12/02/2000 9:02:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,
dwberryhill(at)home.com writes:
<< but are the companies that produce airplane motors
planning on making any design changes for the inevitable loss of lead in Av
gas? >>
For liabilities sake, I sure hope so.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jared Boone" <jboone(at)earfeast.com> |
I've found this to be the case in every transponder-equipped plane I've
flown (admittedly only two Cessna 150s and a 172) -- the sound of the
transponder is a pseudo-random crackle. I've also found that strobes will
couple their signal into the audio lines (a whine as the strobe charges,
terminated by a click when the strobe fires). Being hyper-sensitive to
these things is my lot in life -- in one of my former lives, I was an
amateur music recording engineer.
The transponder responses require quite a bit of current (relative to other
avionics) from your electical system and creates quite a bit of
electromagnetic "interference" which can be induced into other circuits.
Low-level, high-impedence lines (mostly microphone lines) need to be
shielded from electromagnetic interference and distant from or perpendicular
to transmitter-antenna lines. High-frequency high-current devices (like
comm and transponder transmitters) need to have their electrical system
disturbances buffered or smoothed by a capacitor acting as a
fast-charge/discharge, localized battery. Specifically, probably the best
ways to mitigate such a problem is to put some sort of bypass (filter)
capacitor on the power supply wires into your transponder, and perhaps
shield the mic cabling and other low-level audio lines from your headset
into your intercom, and perhaps your radio. I would not be inclined to
blame your headset unless your mic cable is damaged or of bad quality -- but
it would be very easy to try someone else's headset just to eliminate any
doubt.
Any other opinions from real, practicing Electrical Engineers (unlike
myself, who had some EE in college that I rarely use)?
Look at it this way -- at least hearing these noises gives you some
consolation that your equipment is working... :-)
- Jared Boone
RV-8 empennage waiting to be picked up at Van's...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
JNice51355(at)AOL.COM
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 7:15 PM
Subject: RV-List: Xponder Noise
I have recently noticed that I can hear static in my headseat when the
transponder is being interoggated. The noise is "in sync" with the reply
lamp. Anybody who has had a similar problem please get back with me.
Thanks
Jim Nice
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim(is it necessary) |
Terry,
My RV-4 is quite possibly not perfectly rigged, and I'm not an aeronautical
engineer, but my understanding is that if the airplane is rigged properly
for cruise flight (and mine flies hands off, no trim in level flight) then
it should need some left rudder in descent. Why? Well I guess a
combination of the engine offset to the right (for p-factor) and the added
airspeed would require some left rudder in most recip/prop airplanes,
assuming the engine is developing a moderate amount of power in a descent.
Another advantage to the rudder trim tab, I believe, is it looks better than
the ubiquitous tab or wedge that most people find necessary to add later on
to the rudder on most RVs. And that same tab probably exacerbates the
requirement for left rudder in descent at higher airspeeds.
I don't want to overstate the case for rudder trim, it's just a nice thing
to have, I think. However, I wouldn't say it was "crazy" to want to have it
either.
Pat Hatch
RV-4, N17PH @ VRB, 700 hrs. TT
O-320, Hartzell C/S
RV-6, Fuselage
O-360, Hartzell C/S
pat_hatch(at)msn.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Burch" <rv6man(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder Trim(is it necessary)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Rv660wm(at)AOL.COM>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 7:03 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder Trim(is it necessary)
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 12/4/00 6:25:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > vwelch(at)knownet.net writes:
> >
> > > To those of you flying, have you really found rudder trim to be
> > > necessary?
> > >
> This is crazy. A proper rigged RV does not need rudder trim.
> Alittle right in climb is all. I dont understand this idea of having to
use
> a bunch of left rudder during descent. If my RV6 did this I would be
> looking for something wrong.Terry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vern Darley, 11" <vern(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Need to buy an RV-6 project/tools in the SEUS |
I am looking for an RV-6 project and will consider those at any stage.I prefer
SE US since I'm in Atlanta so transportation will be easier.
Thanks!
Vern Darley
5 Perthshire Drive
Peachtree City, GA 30269
w 770 487-6307 9-6 est
h-770 487-5155
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Waalkes" <waalkes(at)netnitco.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Last Call............) |
Stevo,
You're quick to point of "voluntary" and "contribution" as words that we
should focus on, but what about the "freeloader" that Al uses without
hesitation?
This foolish cheapskate would like to tell you to go fly a warped winged RV.
Revengeful,
Bob Waalkes
RV-8 Emp.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Judd" <sjudd(at)ffd2.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 7:15 PM
Subject: Shameful (Re: RV-List: Last Call............)
>
>
> >
> > I would also like to add that I belong to a couple other internet lists
just
>
> Shame on you.
>
> Contributing to Matt has nothing to do with some imaginary legal contract,
> or abstract philosophical concept.
>
> Regardless of how many pretend lawyers try to parse the meaning of the
> word "free", Matt is not some charity that exists for the benefit of a few
> RV builders, and the rv-list does not simply exist on its own. Donating
> to Matt is a way of expressing appreciation for all the _hard work_ he
> does for the list -- for the RV community.
>
> And it is more than that. The list is a kind of community, that exists
> because of the voluntary contributions of the members of the community.
> Some people contribute their time, some contribute their expertise, some
> contribute humor and good cheer, and at least some contribute a modest
> amount of money. "Voluntary" and "Contribution" are the key ideas here.
>
> Finally, whereas Al's posts have been witty and noble, the only whining
> I've seen is from three sanctimonious cheapskates who don't seem to
> realize just how foolish they've made themselves look in front of
> hundreds, if not thousands, of RV builders.
>
> Disgusted,
>
> -Steve
>
> Go right ahead and archive
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com |
12/01/2000 10:32:55 AM
Ralph,
The extra terminals are an option. A recommendation by their technical
support staff as a time saver if you ever need to get into the DPU after
you have gone to all the trouble to install 60 jillion wires into it.
Apparently there are dip switches on the DPU that sometimes must be
changed, as well as a back up battery that will eventually play out that
will need to be replaced. Not to mention if the unit needs servicing you
will be faced with the daunting task of removing all your connections to
make this possible. I don't even want to think about trying to remember
where they all would go when I got the DPU back from service.
The term "extra terminals" is a misnomer. It's actually an exact replica
of the terminal blocks that are already attached to the top of your DPU.
The install procedure is to install all your wires to the extra terminal
blocks then insert the blocks into the terminal blocks on the DPU. This
provides you with a kinda quick disconnect feature that allows you to
unattached every connection at once instead of individually without having
to disconnect individual wires.
It's just a feature. Your call as to rather you think it's worth the extra
expense. For what I paid for the VM this was in the noise so I jumped at
it.
- Jim Andrews
RV-8A ( cowling... )
O-360 A!A Sensenich 85
N89JA reserved
http://www.homestead.com/RV8A/files/
________________________________________________________________________________
I've inadvertently been negative in my -8 a couple of times. Besides the
engine quitting momentarily, I really didn't like the idea of ONE seat belt
latch between me and having to use the parachute. What I mean is, install a
backup lap belt if you plan to do negative stuff. Think about how you'd fly
if you were pressed up against the canopy out of your belt, or more likely,
sailing toward the ground with the canopy torn from the plane.
Look at this months picture in Van's RV calendar. Nice shot of two -4's
flying inverted.
just my 2 cents...
Bryan Jones -8 765BJ ~55-hrs
Pearland, Texas
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Burch [mailto:rv6man(at)earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Aerobatics
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Berryhill" <dwberryhill(at)home.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 6:11 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV Aerobatics
>
> I see that Van's doesn't recommend any negative g aerobatics in the RV's
> (but says that some mild positive g aeros are o.k.). Is this due to the
> structural limitations of the planes or because of the fuel and/or oil
> systems?
>
> Dave
>
>
The plane does fine in neg. It does fly with a nose high attitude inverted.
I dont do more than 2 neg. G's because I dont like the horizontal attach.
If you are consdering neg G's, buy the best 5 point harness with ratchet
that money can buy.Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: weight and balance |
-----Original Message-----
From: pcondon(at)csc.com <pcondon(at)csc.com>
Date: Friday, December 01, 2000 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: weight and balance
>
>Did you measure with the mains unloaded.....on jacks. The sprattle of the
>taper leg rods might cause the legs come to rest in a different location
>when in the air vrs. on the ground.
Measured on the ground and weighed on the ground.
Dennis
>>"Dennis Persyk" (at)matronics.com on 11/30/2000
>08:33:29 PM
>
>Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
>
>To:
>cc:
>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: weight and balance
>
>
>Ed,
>
>I am grateful to you for posting your W&B numbers as there is something in
>Van's W&B section that has been bothering me greatly ever since I performed
>my W&B a couple of months ago. In my manual's section on W&B, designated
>6S14.DOC 5-21-97, p 14-6, the distance between nose wheel and main wheels
>is
>d = (84.125 + 84.25)/2 - 28.56 = 55.63 inches. I note that you have a
>slanted wing that EXACTLY matches Van's slanted-wing example, so I must
>assume that you used Van's values out of the manual rather than measuring
>your plane.
>
>We (helper and I) instead measured the distance between my mains and
>nosewheel (axle center to axle center) and obtained a value of 54.69
>inches.
>I estimate my probable measurement error at plus or minus 1/16 inch -- we
>took took care to do the measurement carefully. My wife and I just did a
>quick-and-dirty measurement as a reality check and we obtained 54.56 inches
>using only one main wheel, so I feel my original value is probably correct
>to within the stated error. My wife and I did not take the time to level
>the longerons for our Q&D measurement tonight, so I feel that this is a
>contributor to the source of the discrepancy between original and latest
>measurements.
>
>I therefore assume that there is a one-inch error in Van's example W&B.
>This may be attributable to the "new" nosegear on the 6A or simple
>measurement error on the part of Van's. My point is that one can incur
>considerable error in the calculation of W&B by using Van's worksheet as
>opposed to measuring it on your plane.
>
>Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 16 hours
>Hampshire, IL C38
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ed Anderson <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Thursday, November 30, 2000 6:20 PM
>Subject: Re: RV-List: weight and balance
>
>
>>
>>Paul,
>> I can't help you with the tail dragger, but my rotary powered RV-6A
>has
>>the following W&B
>>
>> Weight and Balance for RV-6A N494BW
>> Design CG Range FWD 68.7 AFT 76.8
>> C.G.
>> Component Arm Weight Moment
>>Right Wheel 84.25 420 35385
>>Left Wheel 84.125 420 35332.5
>>Nose Wheel 28.5 330 9405
>>Fuel 70 0 0
>>Pilot 87.4 0 0
>>Passenger 87.4 0 0
>>Baggage 117 0 0
>> CG Empty Weight
>> 68.48 1170 80122.5
>>
>>
>>As you can see, I weight roughly 100 lbs heavier than a light VFR RV-6A
>>(full IFR) and my empy C.G is slight forward of the design limit. Van's
>>expressed no concerned over the slight forward C.G, were more concerned
>>about the weight. I also had two 25 AH Concord RG batteries (44 lbs
>>total)which I have since replace with two Odyssedy batters (total 30 lbs).
>>
>> As predicted by a forward C.G the aircraft is very stable, probably
>>slightly slower, and stalls at 58 indicated. No problem on the flare
>>(plenty of elevator autority for that). I have since had the aircraft
>>painted which probably put more weight toward the tail which I suspect
>>probably brings the bird just inside the design limit. The aircraft
>exceeds
>>its gross weight before it exceeds its aft C.G design limit.
>>
>>
>>Hope this helps.
>>
>>Ed Anderson
>>Matthews, NC
>>RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com> |
| Subject: | OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!! |
5.0.3 (Intl)|21 March 2000) at 12/01/2000 12:52:28 PM
Listers,
I know it's a no-no, but I have a primer question. I'm getting ready to
start my fuselage and I'm wondering if anyone knows of a grey self-etching
primer that is tough enough to be used on the interior of the cockpit
without having to paint over it? It would save some time and weight to
just leave the cockpit in primer. I used a brand X green primer (same as
Vari-prime only half the price) on the wings and emp., but don't want a
green cockpit.
Comments from anyone already flying who have subjected a primer-only finish
to some wear and tear would be especially appreciated.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com> |
5.0.3 (Intl)|21 March 2000) at 12/01/2000 12:48:13 PM
Carey,
I was the one who posted this in response to a post by Scott. My O-360-A4A
(from a Cherokee 180) lists 91 Octane as the min octane rating on the data
plate. According to other listers the new O-360-A1A's from Van's also has
this same rating. There has been discussion on the List before about
running Premium auto fuel (91 Octane) in these O-360's. I believe several
listers said they were running 91 already (Tim Lewis was one of them if I
recall correctly). Some of the discussion has centered on whether the 91
autofuel is equivalent to whatever spec Lycoming used for this rating. Has
anyone talked to Lycoming about this?? It would be interesting to get
their response although I suspect they will not "approve" autofuel even if
it works just fine.
My thinking is if I have the option of burning 91 octane in my -360, it's
an ace up my sleeve in case the "new avgas" doesn't work out to be
available, affordable, or whatever. Part of the problem right now is that
91 octane is not available at most airports....usually airports that have
autofuel carry regular unleaded because it's cheaper. If you have an engine
modified with low compression pistons you can burn 87 autofuel, but you
also take a loss in horsepower and efficiency. I want to keep the 180 hp
so I'm going with the standard pistons. If I have to in the future, I'll
find a way to get 91 autofuel out to the airport to use in my aircraft.
My comment below was that I haven't seen an O-320 with 91 min octane rating
on the dataplate straight from Lycoming. Any listers running 160 hp
O-320's on 91 autofuel?
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A flaps
From: Rvmils(at)AOL.COM
Subject: Re: RV-List: O360 Engine
In a message dated 11/30/2000 9:44:27 AM Central Standard Time,
menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com writes:
> and ability to burn 91 octane in it and
> still make rated power. I think some O-320's can burn 91 octane without
> putting the low compression pistons in it (and taking the subsequent loss
> of 10 hp) but I'm not sure about this.
>
>
Hey Scott,
I haven't heard this before and just wondering what you mean by it.
Thanks,
Carey Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: weight and balance |
12/01/2000 01:59:11 PM
Did you measure with the mains unloaded.....on jacks. The sprattle of the
taper leg rods might cause the legs come to rest in a different location
when in the air vrs. on the ground.
"Dennis Persyk" (at)matronics.com on 11/30/2000
08:33:29 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: weight and balance
Ed,
I am grateful to you for posting your W&B numbers as there is something in
Van's W&B section that has been bothering me greatly ever since I performed
my W&B a couple of months ago. In my manual's section on W&B, designated
6S14.DOC 5-21-97, p 14-6, the distance between nose wheel and main wheels
is
d = (84.125 + 84.25)/2 - 28.56 = 55.63 inches. I note that you have a
slanted wing that EXACTLY matches Van's slanted-wing example, so I must
assume that you used Van's values out of the manual rather than measuring
your plane.
We (helper and I) instead measured the distance between my mains and
nosewheel (axle center to axle center) and obtained a value of 54.69
inches.
I estimate my probable measurement error at plus or minus 1/16 inch -- we
took took care to do the measurement carefully. My wife and I just did a
quick-and-dirty measurement as a reality check and we obtained 54.56 inches
using only one main wheel, so I feel my original value is probably correct
to within the stated error. My wife and I did not take the time to level
the longerons for our Q&D measurement tonight, so I feel that this is a
contributor to the source of the discrepancy between original and latest
measurements.
I therefore assume that there is a one-inch error in Van's example W&B.
This may be attributable to the "new" nosegear on the 6A or simple
measurement error on the part of Van's. My point is that one can incur
considerable error in the calculation of W&B by using Van's worksheet as
opposed to measuring it on your plane.
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 16 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Date: Thursday, November 30, 2000 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: weight and balance
>
>Paul,
> I can't help you with the tail dragger, but my rotary powered RV-6A
has
>the following W&B
>
> Weight and Balance for RV-6A N494BW
> Design CG Range FWD 68.7 AFT 76.8
> C.G.
> Component Arm Weight Moment
>Right Wheel 84.25 420 35385
>Left Wheel 84.125 420 35332.5
>Nose Wheel 28.5 330 9405
>Fuel 70 0 0
>Pilot 87.4 0 0
>Passenger 87.4 0 0
>Baggage 117 0 0
> CG Empty Weight
> 68.48 1170 80122.5
>
>
>As you can see, I weight roughly 100 lbs heavier than a light VFR RV-6A
>(full IFR) and my empy C.G is slight forward of the design limit. Van's
>expressed no concerned over the slight forward C.G, were more concerned
>about the weight. I also had two 25 AH Concord RG batteries (44 lbs
>total)which I have since replace with two Odyssedy batters (total 30 lbs).
>
> As predicted by a forward C.G the aircraft is very stable, probably
>slightly slower, and stalls at 58 indicated. No problem on the flare
>(plenty of elevator autority for that). I have since had the aircraft
>painted which probably put more weight toward the tail which I suspect
>probably brings the bird just inside the design limit. The aircraft
exceeds
>its gross weight before it exceeds its aft C.G design limit.
>
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Ed Anderson
>Matthews, NC
>RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!! |
12/01/2000 02:43:04 PM
I used Mar-Hyde gray. Its a low solid, quick drying etching primer on the
inside fuse. and pilot area. Holds up well, but not as good as a epoxy
primer. Mar-Hyde's not a bad way to go.
(at)matronics.com on 12/01/2000 01:46:21 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV-List: OH NO!!! IT'S A PRIMER QUESTION!!
Listers,
I know it's a no-no, but I have a primer question. I'm getting ready to
start my fuselage and I'm wondering if anyone knows of a grey self-etching
primer that is tough enough to be used on the interior of the cockpit
without having to paint over it? It would save some time and weight to
just leave the cockpit in primer. I used a brand X green primer (same as
Vari-prime only half the price) on the wings and emp., but don't want a
green cockpit.
Comments from anyone already flying who have subjected a primer-only finish
to some wear and tear would be especially appreciated.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 0360 Engine New vs Rebuilt |
Regarding peeling paint on engines... when I reworked the cylinders on my
0-320 (Citabria) I used Sacramento Sky Ranch's advice on painting engines.
I striped all the components (case, accessory case, etc). Then cleaned
thoroughly with lacquer thinner and Dupont 3812S enamel thinner. Then
painted with the usual Tempo Lycoming engine paint (no primer!!). Then I
managed to squeeze each component in the oven and bake at 200 degrees for 2
hours. Paint has been on for 4 years and is indestructible!
Doug Weiler
> >
> > I second that! I bought a new O-320-D1A from Van's for my -6 and it is
>
> I third that! Same deal on my O360. At the first annual I pulled the valve
> covers and stripped and primed and repainted them. They're still boring
old
> Lycoming gray but they look a whole lot better and the paint is sticking
> this time. One of these days I'll go after the rest of the engine. Maybe.
> Uh-oh, the sun's coming out -- never mind! :-)
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs)
> Portland, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Lycoming and Auto gas |
If you look at the following Lycoming publication, titled "Do Not Use
Automotive Gasoline In Textron Lycoming Aircraft Engines That are Certified
for Aviation Gasoline"
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/do_not_use_automotive_g
as_in_aircraft.html
Lycoming spells out why they don't want you to do it.
Interestingly, it spends most of it's length talking about quality control,
or lack therof and never mentions lead.
Personally I wouldn't worry about the demise of 100LL. These engines have a
pretty low compression ratio and should run on much lower octane no problem.
I think most of the problems using lower octane occur when the pilot gets
behind on the leaning and causes detonation. Again I'm out on a limb here
cause I (unlike many on this list) don't really know what I'm talking about.
It just seems like the adoption of a FADEC-type computer technology will
allow us to use lower octane fuels without problems since the computers can
watch for detonation and adjust for it.
We should probably be extra-super-carefull about preventing vaporlock in the
fuel lines... if we do have to switch to a lower octane fuel that's one
problem a computer can't help us with.
Matthew Gelber
-8A fuse N48PP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Bristol
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: O360 Engine
The O-360 IS approved for 91oct mogas. See Petersen's website at:
http://www.webworksltd.com/WebPub/PetersenAviation/PetersenAvi
Dave
menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com wrote:
>
> Carey,
>
> I was the one who posted this in response to a post by Scott. My
O-360-A4A
> (from a Cherokee 180) lists 91 Octane as the min octane rating on the data
> plate. According to other listers the new O-360-A1A's from Van's also has
> this same rating. There has been discussion on the List before about
> running Premium auto fuel (91 Octane) in these O-360's. I believe several
> listers said they were running 91 already (Tim Lewis was one of them if I
> recall correctly). Some of the discussion has centered on whether the 91
> autofuel is equivalent to whatever spec Lycoming used for this rating.
Has
> anyone talked to Lycoming about this?? It would be interesting to get
> their response although I suspect they will not "approve" autofuel even if
> it works just fine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | eCharts <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | 2 more days - 10% for Matronics |
Since new VFR and IFR chart revisions just came, we'll hold over our 10% for
Matronics offer for a couple of more days, (lets say till Monday) so that
anyone who needs can fill in or subscribe to your commonly used charts.
When you enter "10% for Matronics" in the special instructions box on our
on-line order form (or say so by phone), we will hold 10% of your order total
as a donation to the maintenance of the RV-list.
This is a simple and convenient way to donate to Matronics and at the same
time, being sure that your charts and approach plates are always up to date.
Thanks,
Andy
eCharts
http://eCharts.cc
Builder's Bookstore
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970 887-2207
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Berryhill" <dwberryhill(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming and Auto gas |
.....snip
>
> Personally I wouldn't worry about the demise of 100LL. These engines have
a
> pretty low compression ratio and should run on much lower octane no
problem.
> I think most of the problems using lower octane occur when the pilot gets
> behind on the leaning and causes detonation. Again I'm out on a limb here
> cause I (unlike many on this list) don't really know what I'm talking
about.
............snip
I know even less than Matthew about these things so forgive me if this is a
stupid question: What about an automotive Octane Boost additive? Is there
any reason you couldn't (or shouldn't) use this with Av gas?
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
The O-360 IS approved for 91oct mogas. See Petersen's website at:
http://www.webworksltd.com/WebPub/PetersenAviation/PetersenAvi
Dave
menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com wrote:
>
> Carey,
>
> I was the one who posted this in response to a post by Scott. My O-360-A4A
> (from a Cherokee 180) lists 91 Octane as the min octane rating on the data
> plate. According to other listers the new O-360-A1A's from Van's also has
> this same rating. There has been discussion on the List before about
> running Premium auto fuel (91 Octane) in these O-360's. I believe several
> listers said they were running 91 already (Tim Lewis was one of them if I
> recall correctly). Some of the discussion has centered on whether the 91
> autofuel is equivalent to whatever spec Lycoming used for this rating. Has
> anyone talked to Lycoming about this?? It would be interesting to get
> their response although I suspect they will not "approve" autofuel even if
> it works just fine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FWIW: Left Hand Drill Bits |
Hi Fred
No offence but... if you drill through 2 pieces of metal, the left hand
drill bit still tries to lift the top sheet up.
The lifting up occurs because the top sheet tries to ride upwards the
flute spiral before the next hole is started through the bottom sheet.
the flute spiral in the drill bit is formed to effectively remove
debries away from the hole being cut. This is thru for left and right
hand drill bits. It's like left hand thread and right head thread,
turned in the correct directions, both fasten things together.
Am I missing something obvious here (very well possible)
Gert
Fred Kunkel wrote:
> The left hand drill bit was originally developed
> for drilling through very thin pieces of
> over-lapping metal. Right hand drill bits tend to
> lift the pieces of metal away from each other, so
> the left hand cutting surface was developed to
> push the metal together when drilling through it.
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Birdstrike, Part Deux (long) |
In a message dated 12/4/00 12:19:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Owens(at)aerovironment.com writes:
<< If there are any artists out there, I'd love to get a good silhouette of a
hawk and a sparrow for the side of the fuselage ;-) >>
Laird, what are you going to try and take out next month, a condor, a
pterodactyl? I think you are taking this one upmanship stuff a bit far ;
).
I'm glad that you both came thru intact (plex can be replaced).
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | New and improved RV-8/8A wings |
The old wing was good to 1550 pounds in aerobatics... wonder what they
changed that made it stronger? Anyone know?
Now I finally have something about which I can say: "Back in the old days,
let me how we did it... you kids don't know nothin' bout pain!"
Matthew
-8A fuse N48PP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 6:02 PM
Subject: RV-List: New and improved RV-8/8A wings
I just noticed in the latest RVator that Van's has redesigned the 8 wings.
"These improvements, and other minor modifications have had the effect of
increasing the strength of the spar and wing slightly and allow us to rase
the aerobatic gross wieght of the RV-8/8A slightly, to 1600lbs." Anyone
know what the old gross weight was? Just wondering how much improvement
this represents.
Thanks,
Jim Andrews
RV-8A ( cowling... )
O-360 A1A Sensenich 85
N89JA reserved
http://www.homestead.com/RV8A/files/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Burch" <rv6man(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New and improved RV-8/8A wings |
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 9:01 PM
Subject: RV-List: New and improved RV-8/8A wings
." Anyone
> know what the old gross weight was?
1550.Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
> Oh yeah, and don't forget to make those clearing turns on the way down!
The
> canopy is great but you can't see below (fly safe folks, please).
Sounds like a good excuse for inverted oil :
)
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 slider track fairing |
>
> This is the one part I never could figure out why Van's won't supply. And
> unless they've updated the plans, they don't even give you an inkling of
how
> you'd go about making one. I suppose you could make it by hand but really
it
> needs a form and press, or fiberglass. If I were doing it today I'd make
it
> out of fiberglass.
>
It really is quite easy to file up a piece of oak or maple, and bend a piece
of .025" aluminum for this fairing. Including chucking the first couple
tries out, I bet I didn't have 45 minutes in that part. Finish the canopy,
close it, take a few measurements and then go find the block of wood.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pdsmith <pdsmith(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Last Call............) |
I'm sorry to see the debate sink this low... Whatever happened to the
friendly, cheerful & helpful community I joined here? We RV builders prided
ourselves on helping one another and not posting nasty, sniping comments
like the one from Bob Waalkes below. Is a new type of builder coming along?
It makes me sad and ashamed.
Phil, 80691
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Waalkes <waalkes(at)netnitco.net>
>
> Stevo,
>
> You're quick to point of "voluntary" and "contribution" as words that we
> should focus on, but what about the "freeloader" that Al uses without
> hesitation?
>
> This foolish cheapskate would like to tell you to go fly a warped winged
RV.
>
> Revengeful,
>
> Bob Waalkes
> RV-8 Emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
In a message dated 12/4/00 3:25:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
vwelch(at)knownet.net writes:
<< To those of you flying, have you really found rudder trim to be
necessary? >>
Absolutely not. If it's built right you will only need a little right pedal
on the upwind. In cruise-climb and cruise (between 120 and 220 mph) a small
fixed wedge works swell. Adjustment is not required.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim(is it necessary) |
I didn't put adjustable rudder trim on my RV-6 (O360, C/S prop). I did have
to put a fixed tab on. The only thing I'd do different next time is to
offset the HS a little bit in the hopes that I'd hit it right and not have
to put the fixed tab on. But I don't feel the need for adjustable -- some
right rudder on takeoff, then she flies straight in cruise.
Randall Henderson RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
> Finally, after buy little by little my tools, compressor, etc., I could
> drill that first hole in my empenage kit.
>
> Every thing is ok and now I am priming my kit with VARY-PRIME from
> DuPont...can you tell me if I choose the right primer...? and How good is
> it..?
Vary-Prime is excellent Daniel.
Welcome to the exclusive club of RV aircraft builders.
You are in for the most exciting time of your life.
I hope we meet some day..........Norman........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seward747(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 vs hawk |
These bird strike incidents reemphasize the value of wearing a helmet,
preferably with the visor having the knurled knob that allows it to be locked
in position. Tactical jets flying low level training routes (typically 1000'
agl or less, 360 kts. or more) have more than their share of bird strikes and
even with hardened windscreens, helmets with visors down, and oxygen masks
giving additional protection to the face, aircrew often sustain injuries.
Again, the older style helmets allow the the visor to be slid down and then
locked in position, which is good. The newer HGU-55 style helmet is
definitely lighter but the visor merely slides up or down, being held in
position by an elastic strap type arrangement, better than nothing but rather
easily ripped off by the offending bird or that sudden stiff breeze in the
cockpit. Something to think about.
Doug Seward
-4, wings, Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Robertson <gordon(at)safemail.com> |
| Subject: | Bonehead move (we all do them) |
From: Don Winters <dtw_rv6(at)yahoo.com>
Well, here's my submission for bonehead move of the
year.
I'm in the fit skins to skeleton stage of building my
wing, and I elected to install the outboard / lower
panel first. Next I drilled the upper outboard skin
to the leading edge, and then the inboard / lower, and
finally the inboard / upper.
That's where I think I goofed. Check out:
http://www.netusa1.net/~dtw50/oops.htm
The inboard upper skin is too high -- only a problem
if you have the pre-punched skins (I do). When I
started drilling the lower rivet holes for the rear
spar, they are barely below the reinforcing bar that
is already attached to the spar. Ouch!
Any suggestions?
Don,
I looked at your pics. (I am just at the same point on my second -8
wing) and if I were you, I would keep the existing holes and fill them
with rivets in any way you can ( pop rivets, or make up a skinny bucking
bar to set them etc.). These will not be strong enough, so then in
addition you can add rivets spaced between the existing ones and at the
proper spacing from the edge.
It will appear to have a double line of rivets ( for cosmetic reasons do
the same on each wing) but it will save a lot of effort.
Gordon Robertson -8 sb wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bonehead move (we all do them) |
In a message dated 12/5/00 4:24:44 AM Eastern Standard Time,
gordon(at)safemail.com writes:
> I looked at your pics. (I am just at the same point on my second -8
> wing) and if I were you, I would keep the existing holes and fill them
> with rivets in any way you can ( pop rivets, or make up a skinny bucking
> bar to set them etc.). These will not be strong enough, so then in
> addition you can add rivets spaced between the existing ones and at the
> proper spacing from the edge.
>
> It will appear to have a double line of rivets ( for cosmetic reasons do
> the same on each wing) but it will save a lot of effort
I would forget the cosmetics on the other wing and work toward getting it
flying!!
You can't see both wings lines of rivets simultaneously!!!
Bernie Kerr, 6A 60 hours, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HAROLD1339(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Delete remove me from list |
Please remove me from the mailing list. Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | RV6 Fuselage Jig |
Anybody in the New England area have an RV-6 fuselage jig that they will be
done with sometime in the next two months? I just ordered the fuselage and
finishing kits for the next RV.....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV (1675 hrs/7.5 Yrs)
E. Windsor, CT 06088
WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com
Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 12/4/2000 9:39:11 PM Central Standard Time,
menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com writes:
> There has been discussion on the List before about
> running Premium auto fuel (91 Octane) in these O-360's.
Mark,
I to have an 0360 180hp and want to keep all that power. Back in my Rotax
day's I used to run 93 octane, I think you could only buy it from Ammco
(spelling) and like you I wonder if this is a possible alternative fuel. I'm
located at Ft. Rucker, AL and the cost of living is supposed to be cheap. It
is for the most part, except avgas @ 2.50 and I would love to pay 1.55 for
premium.
Blue Skies,
Taxi Test
Carey Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Berryhill" <dwberryhill(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Night Flight |
.........snip
>
> >- Redundant electrical systems
>
> This would be a good idea for those with electronic ignition systems.
> It's just more weight to carry around for those of us with mags.
>
Forgive my newbieness, but don't most engines running electronic ignitions
also using a single magneto for redundency (instead of two mags)?
Dave
No RV (yet!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim (is it necessary?) |
>I didn't put adjustable rudder trim on my RV-6 . I did have
>to put a fixed tab on. The only thing I'd do different next time is to
>offset the HS a little bit in the hopes that I'd hit it right......
Dean Hall's RV-4 that has been flying quite a while, reviewed in May 1994
Sport Aviation, has an adjustable rudder trim. It is the one modification
he told me he wouldn't do again if he was building. Too much work, too much
weight, not much gain.
I offset my vertical (I think that's what you meant, not the horizontal)
and still wound up with a trim tab. You have to guess at the offset as the
only way to know for sure is to fly. My tab is a smallish wedge of aluminum
on the port side of the rudder. Hardly shows at all and is way better than
the sticking-past-the-trailing-edge type.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Three years, still smiling.................
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 vs hawk |
>These bird strike incidents reemphasize the value of wearing a helmet,
>preferably with the visor having the knurled knob that allows it to be locked
>in position.
Wouldn't fly without it. Problem with the knurled knobby type is canopy
clearance. The HGU-55 doesn't stick up as high and doesn't have the knob to
smack into the canopy in the bumps. But even with the slide-down visor, it
is protection from at least the initial batch of flying debris. It is a
crap shoot wether the bird is going to hit directly in front of your face
(with apologies to LadyHawk).
There has been a lot of debate (see archives) regarding helmets. Personal
preference. Canopy aircraft and bare heads make me nervous; if the canopy
should be damaged or part company with the airplane, or if you happen to
wind up upside down in the weeds, something other than air on your head
makes sense. There is a quarter inch of plastic between you and what ever
goes on. Hmmmmm.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> |
I am posting this for a friend... Please contact him directly...
King 170B with the MAC 1700 upgrade witch adds digital tuning, Flip flop on
nav and comm. extensive freq memory, synthesized voice freq readout and
synthetic voice approach countdown timer. And many flight planning
features. A great IFR nav / comm for a great price for a radio that has
never been used since OH. Will sell for 1/2 price. $1500.00. including
tray, manual and Jack...
Burrall Sanders - yankeeair(at)earthlink.net
http://vondane.tripod.com/forsale/mac1700.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
>
>To those of you flying, have you really found rudder trim to be
>necessary?
>
>Vince Welch
>RV-8A Wings
>Roaming Shores, Ohio
Not at all. My -8 flies ball centered in cruise and only requires a tiny
bit of right pedal pressure during cruise climbs...and just a bit more in
steeper, slower climbs. Not worth the effort unless the plane won't track
in level flight without riding the pedals.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Field <jfield(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Airflow Performance Purge Valve |
I'm installing the AP purge valve/flow divider as provided in my 4. Does
anyone have any good ideas on the cable routing and connection to the purge
valve control arm? The arm is apparently oriented about straight down. I
think up would make a more simple installation. Is there room on a 4 under
the cowl to mount the arm pointing up? John Field RV-4 engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV8bldr" <RV8bldr(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | HS Clothespin Substitute |
This idea may not be new to some, but it is to me so I thought I would pass
it along FWIW.
I did not care for the wooden "clothespin" idea to hold the HS skins tight
to the spar/ribs. I thought I could figure out an easier, faster to build
tool.
I tried cargo straps wrapped around the skins, as I had seen on someone's
web site as a technique used on the wing skins. This did not work on the HS
skin, as it pulled down on the leading edge and tended to bow out the skin,
rather than press it in.
What I did that worked great for me was to take some 1/4" steel rod, and cut
it to proper length (depending on where on the HS it would be placed). Then,
I put on my Superman cape, took the rod in hand, and bent it in the middle
roughly to the shape the wooden clothespin would have been. I now had a rod
that would slip over the HS, and reach to aft of the fwd spar on both sides.
To prevent scratches, and provide a more even pressure, I slipped some foam
water pipe insulation over the two "legs" of the clamp. In about ten
minutes, I had two clamps that held tight, were easy to adjust, and cost
next to nothing. The steel rod was from Lowes, cost about $4.50 for a six
foot length, which was enough for two clamps. I had the pipe insulation on
hand, but it is also pretty inexpensive, especially if you "borrow" it from
a handy water pipe!
I don't have a web site, but can e-mail a picture of them in action. e-mail
off list if interested.
Russ Christopher
SoCal High Desert
RV-8 Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <Gary.Fesenbek(at)marykay.com> |
| Subject: | Care and feeding of your DAR (was: Engine Dataplate) |
I'm curious about the notion of debating, arguing with or requesting a
second opinion of your DAR. Does this so tick them off that they refuse
your airworthiness certificate? Does your project get put on hold while
you and the DAR wait for the second opinion, appeal, recount, etc?
Save yourself a big headache and speak with other builders in your area on
who they used for their inspections. The local EAA is probably not a bad
resource to use in this area. Better yet if you decide to use a DAR invite
him by a few times during construction to check things over if he will. It
may cost nothing and it will make the DAR feel some sense of ownership
in the final inspection.
Make sure you go over what you have with the inspector before he shows up.
Do you have an auto conversion? or something else. Talk with him about the
major non-standard mods you have made to test the waters to see if there is
going to be a problem.
If you pick somebody out of the hat for an inspector don't be surprised if
you
get somebody who is hard on you or all experimentals for that matter.
Remember,
that you have a say in the choice of the person who does your inspection.
If you
pick somebody who has a very bad track record with experimentals or
uncertified
engines please make sure you include yourself in the blame for what happens.
Legend Air in Dallas just filed for bankruptcy. One the reasons they said
was the
amount of money and time it took them to get the modifications they wanted
for
their airplanes.
Gary Fesenbek
RV6A
Dallas, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
Mine was a little out of rudder trim (almost half a ball at cruise). I
installed a fixed wedge to correct. Now it flies like Brian describes.
Bryan Jones -8 765BJ ~58-hrs
Pearland, Texas
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Denk [mailto:akroguy(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder Trim
>
>To those of you flying, have you really found rudder trim to be
>necessary?
>
>Vince Welch
>RV-8A Wings
>Roaming Shores, Ohio
Not at all. My -8 flies ball centered in cruise and only requires a tiny
bit of right pedal pressure during cruise climbs...and just a bit more in
steeper, slower climbs. Not worth the effort unless the plane won't track
in level flight without riding the pedals.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck Weyant <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Birdstrike, Part Deux (long) |
Glad everyone's okay Laird. If you'd like some revenge, we have a BBQ at my hanger
3017 O at Santa Maria Airport every Sunday beginning around 2PM to 3PM.
Stop on by next time you boys are in the neighborhood and have some BBQ'd bird!
"Owens, Laird" wrote:
> I guess Gary told you a little about my adventure yesterday. I thought I'd give
you some more information.
> ---
Regards,
Chuck Weyant --- Finishing the fuel tanks this week --- yeah!
EMail Me: chuck(at)chuckdirect.com
WebSite: http://www.chuckdirect.com
Santa Maria, CA
805 347-8882
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV8bldr" <RV8bldr(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | HS Clothespin Substitute |
This idea may not be new to some, but it is to me so I thought I would pass
it along FWIW.
I did not care for the wooden "clothespin" idea to hold the HS skins tight
to the spar/ribs. I thought I could figure out an easier, faster to build
tool.
I tried cargo straps wrapped around the skins, as I had seen on someone's
web site as a technique used on the wing skins. This did not work on the HS
skin, as it pulled down on the leading edge and tended to bow out the skin,
rather than press it in.
What I did that worked great for me was to take some 1/4" steel rod, and cut
it to proper length (depending on where on the HS it would be placed). Then,
I put on my Superman cape, took the rod in hand, and bent it in the middle
roughly to the shape the wooden clothespin would have been. I now had a rod
that would slip over the HS, and reach to aft of the fwd spar on both sides.
To prevent scratches, and provide a more even pressure, I slipped some foam
water pipe insulation over the two "legs" of the clamp. In about ten
minutes, I had two clamps that held tight, were easy to adjust, and cost
next to nothing. The steel rod was from Lowes, cost about $4.50 for a six
foot length, which was enough for two clamps. I had the pipe insulation on
hand, but it is also pretty inexpensive, especially if you "borrow" it from
a handy water pipe!
I don't have a web site, but can e-mail a picture of them in action. e-mail
off list if interested.
Russ Christopher
SoCal High Desert
RV-8 Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <Gary.Fesenbek(at)marykay.com> |
| Subject: | Care and feeding of your DAR (was: Engine Dataplate) |
I'm curious about the notion of debating, arguing with or requesting a
second opinion of your DAR. Does this so tick them off that they refuse
your airworthiness certificate? Does your project get put on hold while
you and the DAR wait for the second opinion, appeal, recount, etc?
Save yourself a big headache and speak with other builders in your area on
who they used for their inspections. The local EAA is probably not a bad
resource to use in this area. Better yet if you decide to use a DAR invite
him by a few times during construction to check things over if he will. It
may cost nothing and it will make the DAR feel some sense of ownership
in the final inspection.
Make sure you go over what you have with the inspector before he shows up.
Do you have an auto conversion? or something else. Talk with him about the
major non-standard mods you have made to test the waters to see if there is
going to be a problem.
If you pick somebody out of the hat for an inspector don't be surprised if
you
get somebody who is hard on you or all experimentals for that matter.
Remember,
that you have a say in the choice of the person who does your inspection.
If you
pick somebody who has a very bad track record with experimentals or
uncertified
engines please make sure you include yourself in the blame for what happens.
Legend Air in Dallas just filed for bankruptcy. One the reasons they said
was the
amount of money and time it took them to get the modifications they wanted
for
their airplanes.
Gary Fesenbek
RV6A
Dallas, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jared Boone" <jboone(at)earfeast.com> |
| Subject: | HS Clothespin Substitute |
I'd be interested in seeing some of your HS pictures, or, if you get a lot
of requests, I could even put them up on the Web for you... Thanks.
- Jared Boone
jboone(at)earfeast.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of RV8bldr
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 9:44 AM
Subject: RV-List: HS Clothespin Substitute
This idea may not be new to some, but it is to me so I thought I would pass
it along FWIW.
I did not care for the wooden "clothespin" idea to hold the HS skins tight
to the spar/ribs. I thought I could figure out an easier, faster to build
tool.
I tried cargo straps wrapped around the skins, as I had seen on someone's
web site as a technique used on the wing skins. This did not work on the HS
skin, as it pulled down on the leading edge and tended to bow out the skin,
rather than press it in.
What I did that worked great for me was to take some 1/4" steel rod, and cut
it to proper length (depending on where on the HS it would be placed). Then,
I put on my Superman cape, took the rod in hand, and bent it in the middle
roughly to the shape the wooden clothespin would have been. I now had a rod
that would slip over the HS, and reach to aft of the fwd spar on both sides.
To prevent scratches, and provide a more even pressure, I slipped some foam
water pipe insulation over the two "legs" of the clamp. In about ten
minutes, I had two clamps that held tight, were easy to adjust, and cost
next to nothing. The steel rod was from Lowes, cost about $4.50 for a six
foot length, which was enough for two clamps. I had the pipe insulation on
hand, but it is also pretty inexpensive, especially if you "borrow" it from
a handy water pipe!
I don't have a web site, but can e-mail a picture of them in action. e-mail
off list if interested.
Russ Christopher
SoCal High Desert
RV-8 Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Night Flight |
Dave,
Good question. The short answer is "not necessarily". For aircraft engines
you can run two magnetos, one electronic and one magneto, or two
electronics. With two electronic ignitions installed there tehn needs to be
a backup electrical source (a "dual" system"). if you haven't already I
would suggest getting ahold of Bob Nuckol's "Aeroelectric Connection" book
that goes into good detail about the different systems with good examples.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A N809RS
7.3 hours
>From: "Dave Berryhill" <dwberryhill(at)home.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Night Flight
>Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 07:14:45 -0800
>
>
>.........snip
> >
> > >- Redundant electrical systems
> >
> > This would be a good idea for those with electronic ignition systems.
> > It's just more weight to carry around for those of us with mags.
> >
>
>Forgive my newbieness, but don't most engines running electronic ignitions
>also using a single magneto for redundency (instead of two mags)?
>
>Dave
>No RV (yet!)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Berryhill" <dwberryhill(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Duplicate Posts? |
Am I the only one getting duplicate posts of everything on the RV List? If
so, how do I remedy this?
Dave Berryhill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 vs hawk |
--- Mike Robertson wrote:
>
>
> Yes. Boeing and Douglas did. They cost megabucks and are heavy. On
> the
> lighter side, I once say a video of the testing folks shooting dead
> chickens
> out of an air-cannon at the windows to see what would happen. It was
> quite
> humerous to watch even knowing how serious the testing was.
And then there's the story/urban myth of the outfit doing that testing
and couldn't figure out why nothing they tested withstood the test.
They were using frozen chickens (so it goes)...
:)
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Canopy (chicken-resitant, I hope...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 vs hawk |
> >These bird strike incidents reemphasize the value of wearing a helmet,
> >>
Where's a good source for helmets?
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 vs hawk |
In a message dated 12/5/2000 1:18:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com writes:
>
>
> > >These bird strike incidents reemphasize the value of wearing a helmet,
> > >>
>
> Where's a good source for helmets?
>
> Jerry
>
>
A good source for flight helmets:
www.flightsuits.com
www.gentexcorp.com
Not inexpensive but Mil. quality
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gardner, Douglas (GA01)" <douglas.gardner(at)honeywell.com> |
| Subject: | Infinity Grips/Facet fuel pump |
I'm tripping the 5 amp CB fuel boost pump when switching on the master
switch. The Van's wiring
kit shows a 5 amp CB for the boost pump, and the Infinity grip's switch is
rated at 8 amps.
I have also wired in a red led in my panel to indicate the boost pump's on
state.
I can't figure this one out. Any ideas ??
Thanks,
Doug Gardner -8A FWF #80717
0-360/CS palm Harbor Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 vs hawk |
All this talk about birdstrikes has me thinking. Building an RV-4 means if
a bird hits the canopy, I'm likely going to be eating it. The question is,
will the helmets like Gentex take a bird strike to the visor without
shattering? I'm no model, but I that doesn't mean I don't value my current
facial features. :-)
Bill
-4 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Hollifield <billhollifield(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Volunteer help plus Kitplane magazine buy |
I live south of Houston TX in Friendswood. I am strongly considering
building an RV-6A in about 3 years when I retire. I'm a mechanical engineer
and "handy" but have no sheet metal working experience. I would like to
volunteer to help someone building an RV in my area. I have a Bonanza so if
it was an all-day Saturday or Sunday type of workday I could go a
reasonable distance.
I'm interested in helping with sheet-metal basics and in watching work on
the canopy.
I would also like to buy issues of KITPLANES from about the last 10 years.
Anyone have a collection? How does $1 apiece sound?
Thanks,
Bill Hollifield
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 vs hawk |
Bill,
I had and used a helmet for many years. The plastic visors are pretty
tough. They won't stand a direct hit but they were never meant to. They
visor helps deflect hits, keep glass out of your eyes if the window should
break, and keep fluids out of you eyes if some should fly around. I have
seen some helmets that have taken some pretty wicked hits and the pilots
have not only survived but in some cases walked away when you swear they
should be dead........because of the helmet.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A N809RS
>From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 vs hawk
>Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 17:47:16 -0500
>
>
>All this talk about birdstrikes has me thinking. Building an RV-4 means if
>a bird hits the canopy, I'm likely going to be eating it. The question is,
>will the helmets like Gentex take a bird strike to the visor without
>shattering? I'm no model, but I that doesn't mean I don't value my current
>facial features. :-)
>
>Bill
>-4 wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Items For Sale (Canada) |
We have the following items listed for sale on our web site. All items
are currently in Canada.
RV-6
RV4 project
RV6A Kit
RV-6A
Telex & SigTronics Headsets
New RV-4 (lost medical forces sale)
You can view the listings at
http://www.vansairforce.org/classifieds/
Tedd McHenry
Van's Air Force
Western Canada Wing
tedd(at)vansairforce.org
http://www.vansairforce.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Berryhill" <dwberryhill(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 vs hawk |
>
> All this talk about birdstrikes has me thinking. Building an RV-4 means
if
> a bird hits the canopy, I'm likely going to be eating it. The question
is,
> will the helmets like Gentex take a bird strike to the visor without
> shattering? I'm no model, but I that doesn't mean I don't value my
current
> facial features. :-)
>
> Bill
> -4 wings
>
Polycarbonate is pretty tough stuff. I've seen shooting glasses with
polycarbonate lenses tested by putting the glasses on a dummy (not me, some
other dummy), then shooting them from about 10 yards with a shotgun loaded
with birdshot. The lenses showed the dents but didn't shatter.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 vs hawk |
--snip--
>
> "Did you thaw the chickens first?"
>
Don't know about the frozen chicken stories, but I have heard that live
birds and dead birds give different results. You're pretty unlikely to
hit a dead bird with your canopy (but I'll bet someone has a story).
Tedd McHenry
Van's Air Force
Western Canada Wing
tedd(at)vansairforce.org
http://www.vansairforce.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Securing control stick grips |
Kind of a bonehead question here. How are you guys securing your stick
grips to your sticks? I bought the wood grips from Van's and they need
something to secure them. Not sure really what I want to use.
Any ideas?
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming and Auto gas date.) |
Hi Joe,
I have a 0360A1D in my mooney and have been using 93 octane auto gas . I run
it in one tank and use it only for cruise flight. I use 100LL for take off
and landing. I noticed that the EGT on auto fuel is 50 degrees hotter and the
engine runs smoother. Also no more lead fouled plugs.
I haven't problems of running auto fuel in my RV6 / 0360 when completed. Also
Peterson has a STC for the 0360 engine.
Hope this helped.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Issue with Ongoing Duplicate Messages... |
Listers,
I have finally isolated this duplicate message problem. For the longest
time I thought there was something going wrong on my email system and
night quite by accident I discovered that someone has been maliciously
doing this to the RV-List. It seems that they have been reconstituting
List messages, effectively "resending" the message so it looks just like
it came from the original sender. I have now written a software filter to
detect and remove these occurrences.
It does beg the bigger questions, though, as to why this person would
feel the need to do this sort of thing? It would appear that they
sometimes spend a great deal of time trying to maliciously attact the
List.
It would also seem equally as likely that this is the same person that
found it necessary to subscribe 100's of aol.com email addresses to the
Lists, sometimes spending 45 minutes to an hour on the subscription web
page entering in email addresses and subscribing them to "all" the email
Lists. Since I have to approve all subscribe requests, they were
wasting their time since I was able to just delete the requests.
To this malicious person, I ask, "Why are you doing this to the List?
What purpose does it serve? If there is something about the List that
bothers you, why don't you just express it to me directly and I will
see if I can address it. I have always tried to make these Lists
services as user friendly as possible and have implemented most if not
all of the suggestions I have received. If you have some personal
vendetta against me or Matronics (which I cannot understand), why don't
you please contact me directly and see if you and I can't work it out.
I am a very reasonable person and strive to accommodate everyone's needs.
Please contact me directly to discuss these issues you have and stop
maliciously attacking the List. It serves no purpose."
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott" <scottaspencer(at)att.net> |
Andy,
Every bird strike I have had has been in a stable flight situation with no
evasive action taken before or after the strike. Fortunately these have
been while I was at work flying large aircraft in near an airport and
generally at 200kts or less. If the birds were all that aware you would
think they would avoid the large aircraft when we are slow, but they don't.
I suspect straight and level is probably the way to go anyway because if you
enter some drastic maneuver to avoid the bird in a small aircraft and suffer
the strike anyway (which is likely) you now have to deal with whatever
problem the strike caused along with a recovery from your unusual attitude
close to the ground. Tough call to make though.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of eCharts
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 vs hawk
> I am sorry to report that a hawk went
> THROUGH his windscreen on Sunday at Santa Maria.
First, kudos to Laird's for ending the situation with a nice and proper
landing.
Second, I've heard it said that most bird strikes in small and slow planes
are the result of the pilot seeing the bird at the last second and
attempting evasive manuevers to get away from it. The theory being that the
bird is very aware of the airplane and expects it to maintain a steady
course. When you chink the plane to get away, the bird is unable to
compensate fast enough and the strike happens. The suggestion was that if
you fly into a flock of birds to just keep the plane going straight and
steady and let the birds maintain their distance all by themselves.
Any comments on this? I'm wondering too if this was Laird's situation.
Either way, its a good thing this happened when he was slowed down for
landing, and not full throttle at 200+ mph.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Issue with Ongoing Duplicate Messages... |
Oh my God. Someone is intentionally doing this? Can't you isolate their
internet address or some such electronic voodoo, so that they cannot come
back. Isn't hacking a crime? Geeze man, why would he waste time screwing
around with this kind of behavior? Better hope his name never gets out.
Bill
-4 wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 8:03 PM
Subject: RV-List: Issue with Ongoing Duplicate Messages...
>
>
> Listers,
>
> I have finally isolated this duplicate message problem. For the longest
> time I thought there was something going wrong on my email system and
> night quite by accident I discovered that someone has been maliciously
> doing this to the RV-List. It seems that they have been reconstituting
> List messages, effectively "resending" the message so it looks just like
> it came from the original sender. I have now written a software filter to
> detect and remove these occurrences.
>
> It does beg the bigger questions, though, as to why this person would
> feel the need to do this sort of thing? It would appear that they
> sometimes spend a great deal of time trying to maliciously attact the
> List.
>
> It would also seem equally as likely that this is the same person that
> found it necessary to subscribe 100's of aol.com email addresses to the
> Lists, sometimes spending 45 minutes to an hour on the subscription web
> page entering in email addresses and subscribing them to "all" the email
> Lists. Since I have to approve all subscribe requests, they were
> wasting their time since I was able to just delete the requests.
>
> To this malicious person, I ask, "Why are you doing this to the List?
> What purpose does it serve? If there is something about the List that
> bothers you, why don't you just express it to me directly and I will
> see if I can address it. I have always tried to make these Lists
> services as user friendly as possible and have implemented most if not
> all of the suggestions I have received. If you have some personal
> vendetta against me or Matronics (which I cannot understand), why don't
> you please contact me directly and see if you and I can't work it out.
> I am a very reasonable person and strive to accommodate everyone's needs.
> Please contact me directly to discuss these issues you have and stop
> maliciously attacking the List. It serves no purpose."
>
> Thank you,
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List
>
>
> --
>
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
> Great minds discuss ideas,
> Average minds discuss events,
> Small minds discuss people...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Securing control stick grips |
Scott ,
Proseal come to mind - IF- you never want them to come loose or be removed
in the future.
Personally, I have flown in a number of aircraft with wood or plastic hand
grips and I have found them to get slick when sweating down a tough final
approach. In my RV-6 I have found that the foam grips you can purchase at a
bicylce shop for $5.00 are the best on soaking up sweat and are easy to
install and change out later. I don't have the need for all the extra
switches that some aircraft need. I have only the PTT switch that fits into
the top of the control stick.
Douglas G. Murray RV-6 Painting away on many parts
Southern Alberta
----- Original Message -----
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 5:23 PM
Subject: RV-List: Securing control stick grips
>
> Kind of a bonehead question here. How are you guys securing your stick
> grips to your sticks? I bought the wood grips from Van's and they need
> something to secure them. Not sure really what I want to use.
> Any ideas?
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
> Network Administrator
> Union Safe Deposit Bank
> 209-946-5116
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Lumpkin" <tlump(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Airflow Performance Purge Valve |
I am at the same point. I haven't yet checked, but I believe there is
enough room under the cowl to have the actuating arm of the purge valve
point up. I am going to run a cable along the right side of the engine
baffle which will turn left to head to the arm. An Adel clamp on the push
rod tube will clamp the cable sheath.
Ted
RV-4
-----Original Message-----
From: John Field <jfield(at)pressenter.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 9:42 AM
Subject: RV-List: Airflow Performance Purge Valve
>
>I'm installing the AP purge valve/flow divider as provided in my 4. Does
>anyone have any good ideas on the cable routing and connection to the purge
>valve control arm? The arm is apparently oriented about straight down. I
>think up would make a more simple installation. Is there room on a 4 under
>the cowl to mount the arm pointing up? John Field RV-4 engine
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Night Flight |
> Dave,
>
> Good question. The short answer is "not necessarily". For aircraft
engines
> you can run two magnetos, one electronic and one magneto, or two
> electronics. With two electronic ignitions installed there then needs to
be
> a backup electrical source (a "dual" system").
Not always true. For example, the Lasar system runs both mags on electronic
ignition unless 12 volt power is lost, in which case it reverts to standard
magnetos.
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Securing control stick grips |
>
>Kind of a bonehead question here. How are you guys securing your stick
>grips to your sticks? I bought the wood grips from Van's and they need
>something to secure them. Not sure really what I want to use.
>Any ideas?
>
A friend of mine showed up one day with two beautiful hand made grips for my
airplane. He made them out of Cherry Wood he bought for a couple of dollars
at a garage sale. Just about the nicest part of my airplane.
First I used pretty little brass inserts that had a course thread that
screwed into a hole drilled in the wood. Inside the insert was a screw that
tightened against the outside of the stick. This worked OK on the thicker
grip (copilot's side) but split the wood out on the thinner walled grip on
the pilot's side. On that side I just drilled a hole through the grip and
the stick and threaded the portion through the stick. Then an ordinary
flush type screw with washer goes in and holds the grip very securely. This
is nice looking and is more secure than the insert method. The screw is in
the front of the grip near the bottom, and is inconspicuous.
By the way, another buddy here in town broke the wing of his dragonfly when
the stick grip came off during a bounced landing recovery. It could be
important for it to be secure.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
| Subject: | Bird Evasion (long) |
| From: | "Denis (Bum) Walsh" <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net> |
I am far from being an expert on bird strikes or bird avoidance to be
precise.
As to the straight and level and or the low speed theory, I wouldn't want to
take either to the bank. My most spectacular bird strike was at night and
1500 feet above the ground doing 540K indicated. Go figure.
I spent a lot of my life smashing around at fairly low levels and high
speeds, and experienced very few bird near misses and even fewer strikes.
On the other hand now that I have been "general aviating" for four years, I
can tell you I have seen a hundred times more bird near misses than I did in
the previous 30 years! I assure you my eyes are not sharper either.
I think the problem is greatly magnified at low altitudes (less than 1500
above the ground) and when near food sources or migratory routes for the
birds. e. g. near an airport, water, or town. It is hard for me to
imagine I am now doing such flying without a helmet, with a quarter inch
thick plastic windscreen and no visor to pull down. Not to even mention no
ejection seat and no parachute.
The problem is so great in my mind that I no longer choose to do low
altitude formation practice in that regime. I have had several near
encounters and am unable to jink effectively even when in the lead, much
less when on the wing. If you are going to do any close formation you
should have a briefed bird avoid procedure, similar to lost wingman. Only
call it if the escape path is clear.
My method of bird evasion is to first observe the bird's path and reaction,
then break hard away. If the bird is not evading, I go down, so I can watch
him. If he is doing an undetermined manuever, I go up. Amazingly enough,
I have seen 10 or so well enough to do that. I would hate to guess how many
I have not seen. So far I have been lucky and not had a strike. But i am
convinced it is just that, luck.
The RV is so manueverable you can get away with some pretty good moves, but
like any thing else you better practice them before you try one on short
final for the first time. Equally dangerous would be a high speed
(overstressing) manuever. You have to practice low speed flight and high
speed manuevers to know, by feel, the g load allowed by the circumstances.
So please all you folks, plan ahead for what you are going to do, and
practice the kind of manuevers and even the way you may have to land, with
damaged airplane and obstructed vision.
Have Fun. Hope this helps someone.
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/04/00 |
| From: | Daniel P Farson <danfarson(at)juno.com> |
I want to be removed from this list. Using the automated method isn't
working. Administrator - PLEASE HELP.
R
Daniel Farson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM |
after trying a few-thats what i am using. good choice dude. bob in arkansas
doin wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | meketa <acgm(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Infinity Grips/Facet fuel pump |
Douglas
You mention that the breaker pops when you turn on the master. Is the
fuel pump switch on at this time. If not the problem is at\or before the
switch. Unplug or cut the input wire for the fuel pump to the stick grip
harness. If the problem goes away it is in the stick or grip. If the
breaker still pops there is a probable short or misswire between the
breaker and cut\disconnect. If it only pops when the fuel pump switch is
on the problem is at or after the switch. Unplug the pump or the output
from the stick (start at the easiest place to access) and try to isolate
the problem. Having a 8 amp switch is most likely not the problem. I
would suspect a wiring problem. We would need more info to help. Is this
a new problem, are you just now smoke testing the system or have you
been flying, is the fuel pump switch off\on , how is the circuit
designed, etc.
I am installing Infinity grips on my 8 project and plan on installing
a relay in the circuit. I did not like the small gauge wire and small
switch to control the fuel pump current. What have other Infinity users
done??
George Meketa
RV8- moving project to the airport tomorrow
Gardner, Douglas (GA01) wrote:
>
>
> I'm tripping the 5 amp CB fuel boost pump when switching on the master
> switch. The Van's wiring
> kit shows a 5 amp CB for the boost pump, and the Infinity grip's switch is
> rated at 8 amps.
>
> I have also wired in a red led in my panel to indicate the boost pump's on
> state.
>
> I can't figure this one out. Any ideas ??
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doug Gardner -8A FWF #80717
> 0-360/CS palm Harbor Fla
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
To all,
I'm just finishing up all the replys to the personal messages I've had about my
incident with the hawk.
It's all of your comments like Marcus' below that have been the greatest comfort
to me. I'm still a little unnerver about the whole thing. All the support
has been great.
I don't think I did anything differently than what any one of us would have done.
I just did what I had to with the circumstances I had to work with. I'm almost
glad I didn't see the hawk coming as I might have tried to avoid it and
caused a mid air. All the "what if's" are staggering. I'm trying to put them
out of my mind.
I'll post some pictures of the damage tomorrow.
Thanks again to all for the support and kind words.
May the coming holiday season be a joyous one (mine will),
Laird
SoCal
(BTW, RV-6 N515L has been named "Bird Dog" for it's ability to find birds).
Laird,
I would also like to add my congratulations on a job well done handling
the birdstrike. Of particular note was the added problem of being in close
formation and in the landing pattern, your prioritization was outstanding and
worth noting. First you flew the airplane and then communicated your
intentions and requirements to help your passenger. Outstanding SA and
focusing on what was important at the moment. Many accidents have occured
because that didn't happen. Well done sir.
Marcus Cooper
RV-6 #2 on the way
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul & Gerti RV-4 F-1 Rocket 006" <gertivs(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 vs hawk |
> All this talk about birdstrikes has me thinking. Building an RV-4 means
if
> a bird hits the canopy, I'm likely going to be eating it. The question
is,
> will the helmets like Gentex take a bird strike to the visor without
> shattering? I'm no model, but I that doesn't mean I don't value my
current
> facial features. :-)
Helmets help especially if the bird hits you in the back of the head. (One
fast bird!) Remember the Navy safety lecture pictures of a single seater
smacked in the face at speed. Ugly. Yes, he was wearing a helmet with the
face shield down.
Paul Vander Schuur
Why pay for something you could get for free?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Hicks <EdHicks(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Van's 2001 Calendar |
Hi Listers,
Van's have just released their new calendar for 2001.
It's advertised on the front page of their website, and there is an
ordering link through the online accessories catalogue. Price $12.00,
including US postage.
Ideal decoration for the workshop/office/hangar wall, or a good xmas gift.
Best wishes,
Ed Hicks.
RV-6 QB 3808
Bristol, UK.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Smith" <esmith6(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Remove me from the list please(delete). esmith6(at)satx.rr.com |
Please delete (remove) my address from the RV-list !!!! Thanks
esmith6(at)satx.rr.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Smith" <esmith6(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Remove (esmith6(at)satx.rr.com) from the RV-list |
Please remove ( delete ) my address from the RV-list, ........Thanks !
(esmith6(at)satx.rr.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternator Hookup |
| From: | b green <rvinfo(at)juno.com> |
I am retrofitting to Van's alternator and have a couple of question for
those more knowledgable than myself.
1. To use Van's adjustable reguator: the supplied drawing shows four
wires for the non-adjustable and only two for the adjustable, I am
assuming that they have the same four wires with red going topower, black
to ground and green to the green wire on the alternator harness. Is this
correct?
2. To use my existing prestolite regulator: My old alternator had two
field terminals. the regulator also had two terminals, one of which was
connected by means of a switch to the buss bar. this one and the other
one went to the two field terminals on the alternator. I am assuming
that there was 12v to the field windings at all times and cycled the
ground connection on and off. My question is can I use this regulator
with Van's alternator by connecting the green wire to the powered side
and the black wire to the other side??
Thanks for any thoughts,
Bruce Green
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Empennage Front Spar Rivets... |
Daniel,
Mine were in a little paper bag with some other things. There were only a
few of them.
Steve Soule
Huntington, VT
-----Original Message-----
The contruction manual seys that the center rivets for the empenage front
spar I must use a flush head rivet AN426AD4-6 but....I just cant fin it..!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Infinity Grips/Facet fuel pump |
doug
do you have a meter to check to see what amps you are acually drawing? it is
possible that the fuel pump could be bad drawing too many amps or, the
breaker my be weak. either way, check your amp draw that will tell you the
answer to both pobable causes.
scott
tampa
rv6a engine hung
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Petri" <dpetri(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 vs hawk |
No Bill, don't bet on the visor surviving. It's there to keep low kinetic
items from getting in your eyes and to reduce damage during an ejection. In
a full-on hawk or turkey buzzard encounter, the visor may reduce the impact
as it absorbs some of the energy, but it will shatter in that energy
transfer... don't ask me how I know.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Shook <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 vs hawk
All this talk about birdstrikes has me thinking. Building an RV-4 means if
a bird hits the canopy, I'm likely going to be eating it. The question is,
will the helmets like Gentex take a bird strike to the visor without
shattering? I'm no model, but I that doesn't mean I don't value my current
facial features. :-)
Bill
-4 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Issue with Ongoing Duplicate Messages... |
Matt,
I understand your attempt to reason with this person, but in my field
I've come to realize rational, logical communication sometimes is impossible
when you're dealing with an irrational person. You may have to find their
identity and attempt to prosecute them.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Smith" <esmith6(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Remove me from the list please(delete). esmith6(at)satx.rr.com |
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Smith <esmith6(at)satx.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 10:23 PM
Subject: RV-List: Remove me from the list please(delete).
esmith6(at)satx.rr.com
>
> Please delete (remove) my address from the RV-list !!!! Thanks
> esmith6(at)satx.rr.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)ticnet.com> |
Mark, I have been using some 93 octane Exxon mogas in my 160HP
O-320-H2AD and it generally works fine. A week or so ago I suffered a
momentary power decline and it reminded me of a posting by Mark
Frederick. He had trouble with the winter mogas formula (too volatile,
apparently) and went to 50-50 mix for winter use. The use of an
occassional tank of 100LL when using mogas seems to be common advice.
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas
-6A flying past 315 hours
menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com wrote:
>
>
> Carey,
>
> My comment below was that I haven't seen an O-320 with 91 min octane rating
> on the dataplate straight from Lycoming. Any listers running 160 hp
> O-320's on 91 autofuel?
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A flaps
>
> In a message dated 11/30/2000 9:44:27 AM Central Standard Time,
> menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com writes:
>
> > and ability to burn 91 octane in it and
> > still make rated power. I think some O-320's can burn 91 octane without
> > putting the low compression pistons in it (and taking the subsequent loss
> > of 10 hp) but I'm not sure about this.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bird Evasion (long) |
Generally speaking, the risk of bird strikes are greatest below what altitude?
2000 AGL?
Larry
RV-8 fuse
--- "Denis (Bum) Walsh" wrote:
>
> I am far from being an expert on bird strikes or bird avoidance to be
> precise.
>
> As to the straight and level and or the low speed theory, I wouldn't want to
> take either to the bank. My most spectacular bird strike was at night and
> 1500 feet above the ground doing 540K indicated. Go figure.
>
[snip]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Empenage Front Spar Rivets... |
Hi Danny,
I believe you and the plans are correct and you need to use the AN426AD4-6
rivets.
You should find them in your parts bag # 1906. If not you can reorder them
from Van's Accessories Catalogue on page 54. Good Luck.
Dennis Thomas
RV-9A Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
I got an HGU-33 at http://www.check6aviation.com/. Mine cost about $150.
It apparently was a spare onboard a P-3 or similar (based on the condition
and the markings). I took all the reflective tape off and painted it white.
I also had to retrofit it with civilian audio components. I feel like I got
a good deal - the guy at check 6 was very helpful, throwing in an extra
visor free and a helmet bag for ~$20.
Bryan Jones -8 765BJ ~58-hrs
Pearland, Texas
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Carter [mailto:jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 vs hawk
> >These bird strike incidents reemphasize the value of wearing a helmet,
> >>
Where's a good source for helmets?
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank and Dorothy <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Empenage Front Spar Rivets... |
"Daniel Estrada F." wrote:
> The contruction manual seys that the center rivets for the empenage front
> spar I must use a flush head rivet AN426AD4-6 but....I just cant fin it..!!
>
> I only have 3.5, 4,5,7,8 and 9 RIVETS (all AN426)
The fact that you mention 3.5 makes me wonder whether you're looking at
AN426AD3- rivets.
Secondly, have a look at the bag list at
http://gringo.whanganui.ac.nz/personal/frankv/rv/bunny/rv_parts.htm --
I've found it to be invaluable. I have a copy of it that I keep in my
workshop to help locate parts. According to that list you should find
AN426AD4-6 rivets in bags 412, 473-1, and 836. Do you have any of those
bags?
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Empenage Front Spar Rivets... |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
writes:
>
> The contruction manual seys that the center rivets for the empenage
front
> spar I must use a flush head rivet AN426AD4-6 but....I just cant fin
it..!!
*****************************************************
the empennage is all the tail section parts.
> I only have 3.5, 4,5,7,8 and 9 RIVETS (all AN426)
********************************************************
> You likely have them in with other lengths. I made a collection of all
the rivets. If you can't find them, cut some 7's down or order more. I
would not make a collection of the other hardware. I have found if, after
inventory just leave all that is needed for a project in the parts
department. ( wife's guest room). Every project after fitting, you will
have parts that need to be stored for a long time. I use tapered cups
(butter dishes) & price tags to ID them for later.
Don Jordan RV6A Arlington, Tx
*****************************************
> Please help me, what can I do or what kind of rivet I must use.
> or the plans has an incorrect instruction..?
>
> Daniel Estrada
> MexicoCity
> RV6A emp (Taking form!)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Empenage Front Spar Rivets... |
I haven't tried cutting 1/8 rivets with diagonal cutters but I'll bet it
would work. If nothing else, a hacksaw. It is handy to have a few very
long rivets you can cut down as needed.
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK
Signed off but waiting for fog!
> I only have 3.5, 4,5,7,8 and 9 RIVETS (all AN426)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Issue with Ongoing Duplicate Messages... |
*If* you do know who it is *and* he/she doesn't desist... you could always
tell us their name. I'm sure the attack on the hapless hacker would be
vicious. The RV-List is much like any family, we may not all like each
other and may bicker and argue, but let an outsider cause trouble for one of
our own... need I go on?
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: dralle(at)matronics.com [mailto:dralle(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 5:03 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Issue with Ongoing Duplicate
Messages...
Dralle)
I have finally isolated this duplicate message problem. For
the longest
time I thought there was something going wrong on my email
system and
night quite by accident I discovered that someone has been
maliciously
doing this to the RV-List. It seems that they have been
reconstituting
looks just like
it came from the original sender. I have now written a
software filter to
detect and remove these occurrences.
It does beg the bigger questions, though, as to why this
person would
feel the need to do this sort of thing? It would appear
that they
sometimes spend a great deal of time trying to maliciously
attact the
It would also seem equally as likely that this is the same
person that
found it necessary to subscribe 100's of aol.com email
addresses to the
subscription web
page entering in email addresses and subscribing them to
"all" the email
were
wasting their time since I was able to just delete the
requests.
To this malicious person, I ask, "Why are you doing this to
the List?
What purpose does it serve? If there is something about the
List that
bothers you, why don't you just express it to me directly
and I will
see if I can address it. I have always tried to make these
Lists
services as user friendly as possible and have implemented
most if not
all of the suggestions I have received. If you have some
personal
vendetta against me or Matronics (which I cannot
understand), why don't
you please contact me directly and see if you and I can't
work it out.
I am a very reasonable person and strive to accommodate
everyone's needs.
Please contact me directly to discuss these issues you have
and stop
maliciously attacking the List. It serves no purpose."
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA |
94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com
Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For
Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming and Auto gas |
>The average automobile (liquid cooled) cruises at
> highway speeds using only 20-40 hp.
Glad you said 'average', Arthur. Bubba, my Chevy Suburban, gets lesss than
12 mpg easing along the flat roads around Stockton at 60mph. Such
performance and fuel burn means Bubba (with fuel injection and electronic
ignition) is running on about 75hp. When I attach Boomer, my 22 ft travel
trailer and head on up to Tahoe we spend at least an hour at full throttle
in the 2000 to 5000 foot elevations. Full throttle, full load for over an
hour. All on 100LL and no pinging.
An air cooled engine will require a higher octane than a liquid cooled
engine with the same compression ratio.
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK
Signed off but waiting on fog.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
>A good source for flight helmets:
>www.flightsuits.com
>www.gentexcorp.com
I have worn one from Flight Suits for 3 years now and it remains VERY
comfortable. I opted to get a custom-fitted one as my head is anything but
standard issue. I would recommend custom-fitted as you will be wearing it a
lot and want a helmet that doesn't have "hot spots", areas that seem to
push into your head. See the archives for further discussion.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barrys <barrys(at)viconet.com> |
| Subject: | marhyde/veriprime compatiblity |
Because of the severe cold here in NJ, I have been priming the areas of
parts of mating surfaces with cans of MAR HYDE, leaving the bulk
(exposed areas- after riveting) to be sprayed outside on the next 50+
degree day.
Anyone have experience with painting over MAR HYDE with Veriprime??
Anyone have experience painting in cold climates with Veriprime?
Barry Pote RV9a (wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: marhyde/veriprime compatiblity |
i have been painting lately with marhyde, its in the 50's here in tampa. i
can't seem to get a solid color no matter how much i shake the can, 2 cans so
far same results.anyone eles have this problem?
scott
tampa
rv6a spinner assemly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Graves" <rlgbee(at)fnbnet.net> |
| Subject: | Bird Collision Avoidance |
Just my experience as a long time pilot. Have not seen birds climb when
they are at their cruising or hunting altitude unless they are riding
a thermal. Have seen many hawks and other predatory birds fold wings
and dive when they hear or see you and feel threatened. Never had
close encounters with ducks, geese, or other very large
birds. RLG RV-4 in South Texs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "<Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com> |
(Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id
for" ;
Wed,
06 Dec 2000 14:28:51.-0500(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Empenage Front Spar Rivets... |
12/06/2000 02:29:25 PM
You guys just getting into building, do yourselves a favor and call
Airparts Inc. in Kansas City and order a "floorsweep" bag of rivets. The
rivet manufacturers sweep up all the rivets at the end of the day and you
get a mixed bag of everything for just a few bucks. The bags have uncut
rivs that are an inch long and you can cut them to any size. You will be
suprised how often you dig through the bag. Their # is 800-800-3229 or
913-831-1780 they have an ad in SA magazine as well.
Eric Henson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)mari.net> |
| Subject: | Re: marhyde/veriprime compatiblity |
Hi Barry:
Can't speak for the compatability of Marhyde and Variprime, but I have had
experience with shooting variprime in the winter.
I have no heated garage, and have been building my 6A in the basement....at
least up to now when I have the bulkheads ready for the fuse fixture....but
that's another story. I have been taking my parts out to the garage to
prime them in the winter months with variprime with no problems. I live in
Northeast Wisconsin, and have sprayed primer in temps in the 20's with no
ill effects. Due to the cold, the primer does not flash as fast, obviously,
but a benefit of that is that it flows and settles out without any
overspray.
I spray my parts on fixtures that I can then transport back into the
basement where drying can commence. You will notice some odor for a day
maximum, but no where near that if you had sprayed indoors. My wife has a
very keen nose (I might add a cute one too) and she does not complain.
Again, I have had no problems with the above method. I will admit tho that
it is a pain sometimes carting all those parts out and back into the house,
but I need the exercise.
Hope that helps.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
fuse
Peshtigo, WI (The Great White Nort')
-----Original Message-----
From: barrys <barrys(at)viconet.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 1:22 PM
Subject: RV-List: marhyde/veriprime compatiblity
>
>Because of the severe cold here in NJ, I have been priming the areas of
>parts of mating surfaces with cans of MAR HYDE, leaving the bulk
>(exposed areas- after riveting) to be sprayed outside on the next 50+
>degree day.
>
>Anyone have experience with painting over MAR HYDE with Veriprime??
>
>Anyone have experience painting in cold climates with Veriprime?
>
>Barry Pote RV9a (wings)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Christie" <billc(at)dancris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Duplicate Posts? |
Dave,
You aren't the only one. I have been getting doubles for the last 3 days.
Interestingly enough, they aren't all doubled and they aren't consecutive.
Bill Christie, RV8A, Phoenix
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Berryhill <dwberryhill(at)home.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 1:21 PM
Subject: RV-List: Duplicate Posts?
>
> Am I the only one getting duplicate posts of everything on the RV List?
If
> so, how do I remedy this?
>
> Dave Berryhill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | earl fortner <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bird Collision Avoidance |
Had a headon encounter with a flock of canadian geese while turning
base near the outerbanks of NC. The Vee formation separated and went
by on each side. One lone stragler dived about fifty feet directly
in front of the plane. A scary thing indeed.
"Robert L. Graves" wrote:
>
>
> Just my experience as a long time pilot. Have not seen birds climb when
> they are at their cruising or hunting altitude unless they are riding
> a thermal. Have seen many hawks and other predatory birds fold wings
> and dive when they hear or see you and feel threatened. Never had
> close encounters with ducks, geese, or other very large
> birds. RLG RV-4 in South Texs
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Christie" <billc(at)dancris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 vs hawk |
If the flight helmets are a tad expensive, A good motorcycle helmet would
probably do as well. No oxygen connection, but you can get ones with a
headset built in.
Bill Christie
----- Original Message -----
From: <TD2016(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 vs hawk
>
> In a message dated 12/5/2000 1:18:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com writes:
>
>
> >
> >
> > > >These bird strike incidents reemphasize the value of wearing a
helmet,
> > > >>
> >
> > Where's a good source for helmets?
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
>
> A good source for flight helmets:
>
> www.flightsuits.com
>
> www.gentexcorp.com
>
> Not inexpensive but Mil. quality
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: marhyde/veriprime compatiblity |
12/06/2000 17:10:22
Veriprime has 2 or 3 activators that you use based on the temp & humidity.
I choose the middle one and use it from mid 20 degree temp to 90 degrees. I
dry a little to fast with the mid activator at 90 degrees oat but I can
live with it.......good stuff. Lots of other good primmers out there too.
"Jeff Orear" (at)matronics.com on 12/06/2000 03:55:52 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: marhyde/veriprime compatiblity
Hi Barry:
Can't speak for the compatability of Marhyde and Variprime, but I have had
experience with shooting variprime in the winter.
I have no heated garage, and have been building my 6A in the basement....at
least up to now when I have the bulkheads ready for the fuse fixture....but
that's another story. I have been taking my parts out to the garage to
prime them in the winter months with variprime with no problems. I live in
Northeast Wisconsin, and have sprayed primer in temps in the 20's with no
ill effects. Due to the cold, the primer does not flash as fast,
obviously,
but a benefit of that is that it flows and settles out without any
overspray.
I spray my parts on fixtures that I can then transport back into the
basement where drying can commence. You will notice some odor for a day
maximum, but no where near that if you had sprayed indoors. My wife has a
very keen nose (I might add a cute one too) and she does not complain.
Again, I have had no problems with the above method. I will admit tho that
it is a pain sometimes carting all those parts out and back into the house,
but I need the exercise.
Hope that helps.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
fuse
Peshtigo, WI (The Great White Nort')
-----Original Message-----
From: barrys <barrys(at)viconet.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 1:22 PM
Subject: RV-List: marhyde/veriprime compatiblity
>
>Because of the severe cold here in NJ, I have been priming the areas of
>parts of mating surfaces with cans of MAR HYDE, leaving the bulk
>(exposed areas- after riveting) to be sprayed outside on the next 50+
>degree day.
>
>Anyone have experience with painting over MAR HYDE with Veriprime??
>
>Anyone have experience painting in cold climates with Veriprime?
>
>Barry Pote RV9a (wings)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Bird Evasion (long) |
Larry,
For a couple of data points, my sparrow hit was at 1500' and my hawk was about
1000'.
Laird
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Wed, Dec 6, 2000 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Bird Evasion (long)
Generally speaking, the risk of bird strikes are greatest below what altitude?
2000 AGL?
Larry
RV-8 fuse
--- "Denis (Bum) Walsh" wrote:
>
> I am far from being an expert on bird strikes or bird avoidance to be
> precise.
>
> As to the straight and level and or the low speed theory, I wouldn't want to
> take either to the bank. My most spectacular bird strike was at night and
> 1500 feet above the ground doing 540K indicated. Go figure.
>
[snip]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: marhyde/veriprime compatiblity |
I believe there is a note on the can stating that the grey is added to
give a visual coverage indication not to get a niece even coating.
Sounds stupid...but hey that's what it said on my can under directions,
item 5. Item 7 sayz to not use it below 65 F.......
However. I sprayed at colder temps and have had good results warming the
item to be painted with a heater, heatgun or hairdreyer.
I also keep the can in the house so the contents stay room temp.
Gert
ABAYMAN(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
>
> i have been painting lately with marhyde, its in the 50's here in tampa. i
> can't seem to get a solid color no matter how much i shake the can, 2 cans so
> far same results.anyone eles have this problem?
> scott
> tampa
> rv6a spinner assemly
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allignment of wings |
In a message dated 12/6/00 5:41:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bertrv6(at)yahoo.com writes:
> Cannot align them; Keep getting, about 1/2"
> off. If tips are align, the root end is not, and
> viceversa.
Bert,
I assume you mean when you are trying to align them along the leading edge to
get it in a straight line. If that is the case, you might try using a small
diameter wire running from the trailing edge of each wing tip to a point
along the fuselage CL such as the aft tie down. Now make these two wires
equal length and check for straight. Adjust the wires until your L.E. is
straight. Now set the incidence while the wires hold the wings straight.
Suggest you set the incidence at the tips since they have the max effect on
roll moment before drilling your aft spar.
Bernie Kerr, 6A 60 hours, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Morrissey, John" <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | Alignment of wings |
Bert,
Get a straight edge or string line and draw a 25'straight line on the shop
floor. Get some plumb bobs and hang them over the leading edge of the wing
(two on each wing will do nicely, one on the wing root and one on the wing
tip) Position the aircraft so the two plumb bobs on the wing roots are lined
up with the straight line, chock it. Adjust the wing tips to line it all
up. Go and have a cup of coffee and come back and check the alignment before
drilling the holes.
Job done!!
Cheers
John Morrissey
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rv660wm(at)AOL.COM [mailto:Rv660wm(at)AOL.COM]
> Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2000 11:29
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Allignment of wings
>
>
>
> In a message dated 12/6/00 5:41:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> bertrv6(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> > Cannot align them; Keep getting, about 1/2"
> > off. If tips are align, the root end is not, and
> > viceversa.
>
>
> Bert,
>
> I assume you mean when you are trying to align them along the
> leading edge to
> get it in a straight line. If that is the case, you might try
> using a small
> diameter wire running from the trailing edge of each wing tip
> to a point
> along the fuselage CL such as the aft tie down. Now make
> these two wires
> equal length and check for straight. Adjust the wires until
> your L.E. is
> straight. Now set the incidence while the wires hold the
> wings straight.
> Suggest you set the incidence at the tips since they have the
> max effect on
> roll moment before drilling your aft spar.
>
> Bernie Kerr, 6A 60 hours, SE Fla
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | deltaB(at)erols.com |
| Subject: | Re: Van's 2001 Calendar |
I ordered mine. I was hoping to get signed up for the RVator too. Is
it too soon to subscribe for 2001? I placed an order that says 2000.
So will I get 5 or 6 past issues and a resubsciption memo in jan-feb or
will it carry over?
Bernie
Edward Hicks wrote:
> Hi Listers,
> Van's have just released their new calendar for 2001.
> It's advertised on the front page of their website, and there is an
> ordering link through the online accessories catalogue. Price $12.00,
> including US postage.
>
> Ideal decoration for the workshop/office/hangar wall, or a good xmas gift.
>
> Best wishes,
> Ed Hicks.
> RV-6 QB 3808
> Bristol, UK.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming and Auto gas date.) |
12/06/2000 12:00:45
Remember a STC to use auto fuel is contains two (or more) parts. The engine
& the airframe. Obviously the engine needs to digest the auto fuel but the
airframe has to pump it, route it, store it & transport it. The STC
precess by EAA & Peterson test both sides of the issue so you can savely
use auto fuel in your aircraft. Research the whole picture, not just the
engine. I've convinced myself my RV can use autofuel, however I needed to
research other factors then just the engine. Good luck...
RV6ARC(at)AOL.COM@matronics.com on 12/05/2000 07:32:19 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Lycoming and Auto gas date.)
Hi Joe,
I have a 0360A1D in my mooney and have been using 93 octane auto gas . I
run
it in one tank and use it only for cruise flight. I use 100LL for take off
and landing. I noticed that the EGT on auto fuel is 50 degrees hotter and
the
engine runs smoother. Also no more lead fouled plugs.
I haven't problems of running auto fuel in my RV6 / 0360 when completed.
Also
Peterson has a STC for the 0360 engine.
Hope this helped.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)ticnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing skin order of installation |
Gary, my wing construction notes are getting quite aged but might be of
a little help...<http://www.flash.net/~gila>...site courtesy of Gil
Alexander. The notes detail how I built my wings and they seem to be
very functional after 315 hours.
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas
-6A flying past 315 hours
Gary Gunn wrote:
>
>
> Hello all...
> I'm working on my -6 wings and was wanting to know the order of skin
> installation most folks
> do. The plans tell you to install the main skins first and the video
> does the leading edge skin first.
> Is there any advantage one way or the other? I have the pre-punched
> type.
>
> Thanks,
> Gary Gunn
> RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming and Auto gas date.) |
Bob wrote:
> Remember a STC to use auto fuel is contains two (or more) parts. The
engine
> & the airframe. Obviously the engine needs to digest the auto fuel but the
> airframe has to pump it, route it, store it & transport it.
So, Bob, is the RV6a airframe and components capable?
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sally and George" <aeronut58(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Allignment of wings |
Bert:
You wrote:
I am having trouble with this task..
> ;Cannot align them; Keep getting, about 1/2"
> off. If tips are align, the root end is not, and
> viceversa.
Suggest the following: (1) align wings so that both leading edges are
aligned as close as you can get them. (s) use a taut tape measure so that
the distancefrom the center of the rear fuselage to the leading edge of the
spar at the tip rib measures the same on both wings. (2) set incidence
measuring at tip, center span and inboard, averaging if necessary. (3)
recheck distance from rear fuselage center to wing tips. (4) drill.
George Kilishek
N888GK firewall forward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Bird Collision Avoidance |
In a message dated 12/6/00 1:41:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<< Had a head-on encounter with a flock of canadian geese while turning
base near the outerbanks of NC. >>
You were close enough to verify their citizenship?
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Bird Collision Avoidance |
> It is amazing that the propellor doesnt
> get to them first. It flew right through the prop
Not when you think about the geometric pitch of these props... the spiral
trace of the blade tips along the flight path is not like the threads on a
bolt, but more like a slinky toy stretched way out. Depending on the aspect
ratio of the blades, I'd guess that a small object has a better than 80%
chance of passing through the propeller disc unscathed.
Just my humble opinion. What do I know; I'm sitting here very pensive
tonight because my O-320 is making more metal than the mechanic and I think
it should, after just 155 SMOH.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A O-320/FP Sensenich
Hop-Along Airfield - 12VA
Clifton Forge, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Van's 2001 Calendar |
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
>
> I ordered mine. I was hoping to get signed up for the RVator too.
> Is
> it too soon to subscribe for 2001? I placed an order that says
> 2000.
> So will I get 5 or 6 past issues and a resubsciption memo in jan-feb
> or
> will it carry over?
>
Nope it won't carry over. Van doesn't send out notices, you have to
remember each January to send it in on your own.
Cecil Hatfield
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | compass magnetic interference |
The intruments, switches, cables, etc., are test mounted in the panel to
check all the clearances. Everything fits great and the tip-up frame clears
everything. Time to do a little hanger flying complete with noises! My
fuselage faces due North and a quick check of the compass says we are
heading West! The EGC Turn Coordinator is swinging the compass! The
compass is mounted about 3 inches from the TC. I can remove the TC and the
compass settles back to the North.
I can switch the compass with another 2 1/4" instrument and try to find a
sweet spot, but I have the compass right where I want it. Any ideas on how
to leave it where it is and make it work????
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
-6 fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allignment of wings |
In a message dated 12/6/00 6:55:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,
kempthornes(at)home.com writes:
<<
There is no provision made for this out of tolerance condition. My solution
was safe but not ideal so I would call Van's.
>>
Hal,
What was your solution?
Cash Copeland
QB #60075
RV6 N46FC (Reserved)
Oakland, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allignment of wings |
I've seen two posts suggesting setting the 1 degree incidence at the tip. Note
that this may not be optimum for stall characteristics, unless you add stall
strips inboard (depending on which way the wings twist).
Finn
Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allignment of wings |
I've seen two posts suggesting setting the 1 degree incidence at the tip. Note
that this may not be optimum for stall characteristics, unless you add stall
strips inboard (depending on which way the wings twist).
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: compass magnetic interference |
Jerry,
Magnetic compasses seldom work very well mounted in the panel-it's always a
compromise. That's why they're usually mounted above the glare shield.
Dave
Jerry Calvert wrote:
>
> The intruments, switches, cables, etc., are test mounted in the panel to
> check all the clearances. Everything fits great and the tip-up frame clears
> everything. Time to do a little hanger flying complete with noises! My
> fuselage faces due North and a quick check of the compass says we are
> heading West! The EGC Turn Coordinator is swinging the compass! The
> compass is mounted about 3 inches from the TC. I can remove the TC and the
> compass settles back to the North.
>
> I can switch the compass with another 2 1/4" instrument and try to find a
> sweet spot, but I have the compass right where I want it. Any ideas on how
> to leave it where it is and make it work????
>
> Jerry Calvert
> Edmond Ok
> -6 fuselage
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jared Boone" <jboone(at)earfeast.com> |
| Subject: | compass magnetic interference |
Forgive me for speaking out my other end -- I pretend to know more than I
actually do...
It seems to me that you have to remove the substantial error-causing
magnetic field the turn coordinator) in order to sense the meager desired
magnetic field (the Earth). The only other way (and I AM definitely
guessing here) would be to somehow position another magnetic field of
exactly the same strength exactly opposite through the compass axis from the
TC field (which may vary or move, just to complicate things).
Do they make vacuum-powered TCs? I'm guessing yours is electric 'cause
that's all I can find on the Web at the moment... It would stand to reason
that a vacuum-powered TC (if they exist) would create a smaller magnetic
field (if it does AT ALL) than an electric TC.
Or, if you could get an electronic compass with a remote sensing head, and
mount the head far away from undesirable magnetic fields, that might just do
the trick.
If you DO find a solution using your electric TC, let me know -- my
understanding of physics will likely be shattered, but I should be able to
deal with it.
- Jared Boone
T-minus-8days to RV-8 Empennage kit pickup...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Calvert
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 7:56 PM
Subject: RV-List: compass magnetic interference
The intruments, switches, cables, etc., are test mounted in the panel to
check all the clearances. Everything fits great and the tip-up frame clears
everything. Time to do a little hanger flying complete with noises! My
fuselage faces due North and a quick check of the compass says we are
heading West! The EGC Turn Coordinator is swinging the compass! The
compass is mounted about 3 inches from the TC. I can remove the TC and the
compass settles back to the North.
I can switch the compass with another 2 1/4" instrument and try to find a
sweet spot, but I have the compass right where I want it. Any ideas on how
to leave it where it is and make it work????
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
-6 fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bdubsrv6a(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: marhyde/veriprime compatiblity |
Hey Barry, Scott and Jeff,
Have never tried veriprime, so can't speak to that (but shall try just to get
a comparison). However, when using marhyde on cold days I keep the the
primer in a warm place (in the house) and after taking all the parts outside
and cleaning them well with MEK I then agitate the marhyde real well and then
go out and prime the parts while the primer is still warm. Has worked well
for me. Doesn't get as cold as 'Scansin where my youngest is in grad school
at Udub, but when the wind comes whistlin down the plains here in Oklahoma it
can get cold!!
Bud West
6a-wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming and Auto gas date.) |
BUT you don't need an STC to burn Auto gas in an experimental.
----- Original Message -----
From: kempthornes <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Lycoming and Auto gas date.)
>
> Bob wrote:
> > Remember a STC to use auto fuel is contains two (or more) parts. The
> engine
> > & the airframe. Obviously the engine needs to digest the auto fuel but
the
> > airframe has to pump it, route it, store it & transport it.
>
> So, Bob, is the RV6a airframe and components capable?
>
> hal
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming and Auto gas date.) |
12/07/2000 09:10:45
True, no STC on the experimental. I was trying to convey that some thought
is necessary as to the total picture of using auto gas in your
experimental. Like I said, I've used auto for years but I did some
research(and stay informed) into the factors that may cause issues. Good
luck
"Cy Galley" (at)matronics.com on 12/06/2000 11:28:51 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Lycoming and Auto gas date.)
BUT you don't need an STC to burn Auto gas in an experimental.
----- Original Message -----
From: kempthornes <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Lycoming and Auto gas date.)
>
> Bob wrote:
> > Remember a STC to use auto fuel is contains two (or more) parts. The
> engine
> > & the airframe. Obviously the engine needs to digest the auto fuel but
the
> > airframe has to pump it, route it, store it & transport it.
>
> So, Bob, is the RV6a airframe and components capable?
>
> hal
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RVATOR Payment to Vans due for 2001 editions.... |
12/07/2000 11:39:48
Good point. Vans does not send renewal notices on the RVATOR.
cecilth(at)juno.com@matronics.com on 12/06/2000 10:34:58 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's 2001 Calendar
>
> I ordered mine. I was hoping to get signed up for the RVator too.
> Is
> it too soon to subscribe for 2001? I placed an order that says
> 2000.
> So will I get 5 or 6 past issues and a resubsciption memo in jan-feb
> or
> will it carry over?
>
Nope it won't carry over. Van doesn't send out notices, you have to
remember each January to send it in on your own.
Cecil Hatfield
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johnny Johnson" <Johnny(at)wiktel.com> |
<<< Generally speaking, the risk of bird strikes are greatest below what
altitude?
<<< 2000 AGL?
FWIW, I went at least 1000' UNDER a golden eagle near Cutbank, Montana one
summer afternoon... and we were at 11,500 MSL. He was apparently enjoying a
free ride on those thermals. Generally tho, my guess would be that the
greatest risk is under 1000 AGL. One nice thing about living where it snows
(you guys that razz us in the north about your shirtsleeve weather, listen
up)--all the big birds go to where it is shirtsleeve weather....
Over the years, it has seemed to me that birds will try to avoid us,
generally by diving but often with a hard turn, so my tendency is to let
them do it without trying to second-guess them, i.e. no particular action on
my part. It's worked so far on every one I saw (didn't see a few, some were
at night, only 1 did damage). Let's not start a slider-vs-flipper war, but
the front section of a slider might be--hear me, MIGHT BE--a little stiffer
due to the frame and thus might take a bigger bird without letting him join
you in the front seat. In any event, it would seem a long shot for anything
but a pretty big bird to come right on thru the windscreen. But when one
does... wow!
Laird, you had quite an experience... and I must say, my good man, "you done
good!!" We're all glad that only the airplane suffered major contusions...
Wonder if those little ultrasonic whistles you put on the front bumper of
the car to scare deer will work on birds?? Maybe we need screamin'
airplanes... literally... :>)
Johnny Johnson
49MM -3 flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com> |
| Subject: | Priming in the cold |
5.0.3 (Intl)|21 March 2000) at 12/07/2000 10:56:35 AM
Barry,
I live in Iowa (highs in the single digits Farenheit the past few days). I
have an attached garage and mostly heat it by opening the door to the house
and putting a fan in the door to pull the warm air in. When it gets REALLY
cold, or if I want to heat it up faster I use a kerosene space heater.
For priming I make sure everything is nice and warm (air, parts, primer,
etc), garage door closed, and door into the house closed and taped around
the edges (it doesn't seal tight enough to keep the fumes out). Then I don
my charcoal/carbon mask (bought at Menards which is like Home Depot) and
start spraying. The mask works well (at least I can't smell the paint at
all). After a couple minutes I crack the garage door about one foot open
to keep the overspray from building up. When it's cold outside, the temp
differential sets up a convective action so a fan is not needed to
circulate the air. By the time I'm done spraying it's getting pretty
chilly. I usually do a quick clean-up of the spraygun, open the garage
door all the way for a few minutes to make sure all volatile vapors are
out, then turn on the kerosene space heater, close the garage door again
and go inside the house for a while. After it's warmed up again I go back
out and finish any clean-up, turn off the heater, and just leave it
overnight. It stinks and I HATE priming (worse than Proseal IMHO, at least
in the winter) but it gets the job done. The primer always adheres well to
the metal.
Hopefully I'll finish my airplane before I die of cancer from breathing
primer fumes.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A final details on wings
From: barrys <barrys(at)viconet.com>
Subject: RV-List: marhyde/veriprime compatiblity
Because of the severe cold here in NJ, I have been priming the areas of
parts of mating surfaces with cans of MAR HYDE, leaving the bulk
(exposed areas- after riveting) to be sprayed outside on the next 50+
degree day.
Anyone have experience with painting over MAR HYDE with Veriprime??
Anyone have experience painting in cold climates with Veriprime?
Barry Pote RV9a (wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Berryhill" <dwberryhill(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bird strikes |
.......snip
> Wonder if those little ultrasonic whistles you put on the front bumper of
> the car to scare deer will work on birds?? Maybe we need screamin'
> airplanes... literally... :>)
>
Oh, I like that idea. Didn't the Stuka dive-bombers have something attached
to them that made that awsome sound? ;-)
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
I have been listening to the discussion on the use of auto fuel and have a
couple of things to add. No real conclusions, just information.
1)I have an 0-320 in my RV-4 - 150Hp and have been playing around with auto
fuel for the last 5 months. I keep 80 octane in the left wing and 93 octane
in the right wing. I am very careful to takeoff and land on the aviation
fuel. (maybe its unnecessary but I'll err on the conservative side) I've
never noticed any difference in how the engine ran while on the auto fuel.
Same CHT, egt.
2) I don't know enough to separate the truth from the old wives tales
regarding what Auto fuel can do to fuel system components such as gaskets
and seals in the carb. So I play it safe. That is why I switch before
landing. My carburetor experiences about 3 hours a week of auto fuel, and
all the time spent sitting on the ground is with Avgas in all parts of the
fuel system downstream of the fuel valve.
3) I am alarmed at the amount of WATER in auto fuel. When I first started
using it, I would regularly sump out a marble sized ball of water out of the
Auto fuel tank and get nothing out of the wing that had been filled with
avgas. I've since purchased one of those "super funnels" that has a
hydrophobic filter that actually doesn't pass water. It works well, I
regularly have to stop fueling to clean the filter element. I'm not getting
water in the sump now so it seems to be working. As a note, I've
experienced water in the fuel at several stations in my area.
4) I did my annual last month. The AI who assisted (I didn't build my
plane) was impressed with how clean the plugs were. I can only assume that
the auto fuel and the fact that I lean aggressively on the ground were
factors.
5) There has been a lot of discussion about the applicability of auto fuel
in higher compression engines. (200 hp IO360, 160hp 0320) The reality is
that any decent engine shop with a properly instrumented dyno can determine
the octane requirements of an engine. If the need arose someone like
Mattituck could determine if an IO-360 could run on unleaded 93 in short
order. Just set up the instrumentation, run the engine under varying loads
and temperatures and look for the signs of knock and/or pre-ignition. If
you can run it hard and hot on 93 octane and it doesn't show problems then
you move forward, which I would think would be instrumented testing in an
airframe. There has been a lot of conjecture like "well an 0-320 with high
compression pistons can't use auto fuel" I don't think anyone really knows
that. Its just that until we know that IT CAN use auto fuel, it isn't
prudent to try.
Just my 2 cents.
Don Mei
RV-4 N92CT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: compass magnetic interference |
A mu-metal cylinder placed about the TC will likely solve your problems.
One source for such cylinders is:
Magnetic Shield Corp.
750 N. Thomas Drive
Bensenville, Illinois 60106
(630) 766-7800
(630) 766-2813 - Fax
December 02, 2000 - - - - , 20-
RV-Archive.digest.vol-jt