RV-Archive.digest.vol-jw
December 17, 2000 - December 22, 2000
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators |
Well, yes and no. You are correct that it will stall at a higher indicated
airspeed in a steep turn, but there will be no difference in the indicated
stalling speed
caused by altitude-that's why we fly high-the airplane accelerates until the
drag equals the thrust-the same power setting must generate the same
indicated airspeed at all altitudes-only the true airspeed goes up-----
Original Message -----
From: Mike Nellis <mnellis(at)emailusa.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators
>
> Incorrect, the wing works on Angle of Attack not airspeed.
>
> For example, load the plane up to gross and it might stall at say.....55
> mph.
> Take that same plane loaded to gross up to 8000' and do some steep turns
and
> I'll guarantee that it will stall at a lot higher speed than 55 mph.
>
> It's all about Angle of Attack not IAS. Typical stall warning devices are
> angle of attack sensors not airspeed sensors.
>
> Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res)
> Plainfield, IL
> Building Tanks
> http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
>
>
> >
> > You're right. Indicated airspeed is all the wing works on- TAS and GS
are
> > for navigating. The only variable could come from unstable air -as in
> slight
> > updrafts or downdrafts occuring during the two test flights.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Builder's Bookstore <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 2:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > I put vortex generators on my RV6A....what is REALLY puzzling me is
> how
> > to
> > > > reasonably determine the stall speed.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I have my VG set, but haven't installed them yet. When I do, I'm going
> to
> > look
> > > at both indicated airspeed and groundspeed as measured on the GPS.
> Between
> > the
> > > two, I should get a reasonable idea of what the VGs are doing.
However,
> > the GPS
> > > comparison figure is just for academic interest and has no real value.
> > >
> > > The bottom line is that I don't really care what my calibrated or true
> > stall
> > > speeds are. From the operational point of view of the pilot, all that
> > really
> > > matters is Indicated. (Yes, I'm wearing my asbestos suit) I want to
know
> > how
> > > "my" plane is going to respond in a short or power off landing
> > configuration;
> > > these being the times that the benefits of VGs will most come into
play.
> > > Indicated will always give that information in an easy to use and
> > dependable
> > > manner. Any other number is fairy irrelevant to the task at hand at
that
> > moment.
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul & Gerti RV-4 F-1 Rocket 006" <gertivs(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators |
> > I put vortex generators on my RV6A....what is REALLY puzzling me is how
to
> > reasonably determine the stall speed.
> >
> > I am using a TAS indicator...where should it be set? How does one
account
> > for all the variables without a drogue (spelling) static port, and
without a
> > very long pitot pick up?
> > I take off at 7,500-feet, and do stalls at 10 to 11,000 msl so that
probably
> > needs to be taken into account....I am really out of my area of
expertise
> > (expertise, heck...out of my skimpy knowledge of such things!)
My first thoughts when reading the VG discussion is why do we need them?
The -4 (only model I have flown) is one of the most forgiving airfoils I
have ever flown. Hi-lift, relatively slow stall speeds, long onset of
burble before full stall...nothing devious whatsoever. But why was not the
question...fair enough.
How to detiremine the stall speed.
1. Use the aircraft configuration most used during the typical slow speed
A. Fuel weight
B. Passenger?
C. Baggage?
(Some may question the wisdom of using a passenger etc in the testing.
But I suggest a stall speed test can only be useful if it gives a number in
realistic situations)
2. Make sure the aircraft is balanced!
A. Center the ball!!!
B. Trim
3. Smooth stick
A. smooth air
B. Don't kill any snakes. Finger tips only
4. Test and retest until you can get a result that is repeatable.
After 5 to 10 passes you will have the correct indicated airspeed and
the confidence it is right
Ditch the GPS. Ditch TAS. Don't worry about altitude. Has absolutley
nothing to do with aerodynamic stall speed. Angle of attach is the ONLY
detirminant of stall speed and IAS in 1 G flight is the most readily
available indicator for most aircraft.
My suspicions are that most pro VG people are not really trying to land
slower but (more directly) to somehow have safer landings. Their hope is
that with a slower stall airspeed the pilot will have a greater margin of er
ror before inadvertantly stumbleing in to a stall during a approach turn or
landing. Wrong!!!!!!! You can't substitute experience, a smooth stick and
judgement with an indicator. But if an indicator of saftey is what you want,
get an Angle-of-Attach indicator. (the Navy can't move without it) Short
of that use INDICATED AIRSPEED.
Paul Vander Schuur
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: AVflash 6.51a |
----- Original Message -----
From: AVweb's AVflash <AVflash(at)avweb.com>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 12:13 AM
Subject: AVflash 6.51a
> AVflash Vol. 6, Issue 51a Monday, December 18, 2000
>
> The Top Headlines From AVweb's Expanded, Illustrated
> News Coverage At <http://avweb.com/n/?51a>.
>
> ALASKA AIRLINES FLIGHT 261: THE HEARINGS...
> In the aftermath of the January 31 crash of Flight 261, where an Alaska
> Airlines MD-80 plunged uncontrollably into the Pacific Ocean after
> failure of part of the aircraft's stabilizer assembly, the NTSB is
> uncovering some of the shortcomings of a number of systems currently in
> place. We found out last week, through official FAA testimony, that
> the jackscrew assembly (a 1960s design) has outlived its paper trail.
> FAA officials testified that they could not provide an account of how
> the part was approved -- nor could they provide records of the process
> which approved it. So, what we are left with is a part with some 35
> years of flight history, but not a single official record or word on
> how it came to be approved for installation in the MD-80.
>
> ...WHAT WE KNOW, NOW...
> While the design of the jackscrew assembly was supposed to assure that
> the failure of any single part within the assembly can *not* result in
> complete loss of control, the crash of Flight 261 explains with
> relative certainty that the failure of a single part *is* capable of
> causing failure of other parts in the assembly and that those multiple
> failures are quite capable of bringing down the aircraft. Further,
> while the manufacturer was aware that the assembly was subject to
> continuous wear, they were content in the notion that regular
> maintenance could assure its operation. Alaska Airlines was inspecting
> the jackscrews every 15 months, but the accident aircraft had flown
> 8,874 hours since its last inspection -- well beyond the 7,200
> suggested by Boeing. The hearings revealed that the FAA had "accepted"
> the carrier's jackscrew maintenance schedule.
>
> ...AND WHAT THE CREW SAID, THEN
> The pilots radioed their Seattle base seeking advice and relaying their
> understanding of the serious nature of the situation. Portions of the
> communication that were made public last week indicate that the base
> operators were not immediately aware of the magnitude of the problem.
> This may have induced some agitation in the cockpit as ground-based
> counterparts second-guessed the captain's decision to divert to LAX and
> the problem proved its ability to overcome each sequence of corrective
> measures set forth by the flight crew. During the aircraft's final
> dive, the verbal exchange between the pilots appears to imply that they
> attempted to stabilize the aircraft in inverted flight and work with
> its gyrations to help them roll it back over and keep the nose near the
> horizon with rudder and elevator inputs. But all attempts by the crew
> to regain control proved futile as the MD-80 made its final plunge to
> the ocean.
>
> ANOTHER OSPREY DOWN, SUSPICIONS UP
> $30 billion worth of orders for 360 MV-22 tiltrotor Osprey aircraft
> have been suspended pending the results of an investigation into last
> Monday's crash, which killed four Marines. The Pentagon is assembling
> a review board this week for the MV-22 program to determine if this
> accident and three that came before it are indicative of a design
> problem with the aircraft -- which is the product of a $40-billion
> joint venture of Boeing and Bell Helicopter Textron. The aircraft was
> piloted by the Marine Corps' two most experienced Osprey pilots. They
> were on a routine precision approach in good weather, past the outer
> marker, approximately seven miles from the field when the crew
> transmitted an emergency call indicating that the aircraft was going
> down. The Marine Corps' investigators are leaning heavily toward
> suspicions of mechanical malfunction.
>
> THE HEWLETT-PACKARD INCIDENT: EMPLOYEE FALLS (?) FROM COMPANY PLANE
> Sacramento, Calif., police have found what they believe to be the body
> of a woman who, according to the FBI, either fell or jumped from a
> Hewlett-Packard-operated de Havilland Twin Otter shortly after it
> departed Sacramento airport last Thursday. The 15-seat aircraft, its
> two crew and five passengers had made a precautionary landing at
> Sacramento after departing Lincoln, Calif., prompted by an illuminated
> door-unsafe light in the cockpit. After the landing, at least one
> crewmember checked the door and the flight departed Sacramento for San
> Jose. Initial reports indicate that the aircraft was roughly ten miles
> out of Sacramento, at an altitude approaching 2,000 feet, when the door
> opened in flight. At that time, one male passenger reportedly turned
> around in his seat and saw that a woman was exiting the aircraft.
>
> NOTE: AVweb's NewsWire <http://avweb.com/n/?51a> contains more
> details on this bizarre incident.
>
> SILKAIR, THE FINAL REPORT ... ON THE HEELS OF EGYPTAIR 990: On December
> 19, 1997, a nearly-new Boeing 737-300, operated by SilkAir as flight
> MI185, lost power to its flight data and voice recorders and plunged
> from 35,000 feet into a river near Indonesia's capital city of Jakarta,
> killing all 104 people on board. Last Monday, NTSB chairman Jim Hall
> sent a letter to Indonesian investigators summarizing the board's
> opinion on the accident -- that it only could be explained as the
> result of intentional actions of one of the flight crew. Last
> Thursday, Indonesian investigators submitted their final report and
> ruled out the implied "pilot suicide" suggested by Hall's letter.
>
> CONCORDE BACK IN 2001: Maybe. The French Transport ministry has
> announced that British Airways and Air France hope to carry out test
> flights early next year -- possibly within the month of February. The
> February "test" is an odd development in a timeline that does not
> expect to see a completed crash inquiry until sometime in the spring.
> It appears that the major safety enhancement will be new fuel-tank
> liners, which (it is hoped) will greatly reduce the chance of a fire
> the next time the aircraft suffers a burst tire on takeoff roll.
>
> SPIT FOR SALE: In a stunning combination of aviation and new-media
> technology (Why does that sound so familiar?) online auction-house eBay
> put a restored Mk XVIII (1945) Spitfire on the auction block this
> month. The minimum bid was listed at a mere $1,800,000. At the time of
> this writing, nearly ten days since the aircraft went up on auction,
> bids had topped out at ... well, there were no bids. The aircraft is
> one of ten Spit restoration projects completed by Historic Flying, a
> company based in Saffron Walden, Essex, England.
>
> THE TROUBLE WITH MAJORS: Where to begin ... American Trans Air pilots
> picketed at JFK this past Sunday. The pilots, through ALPA, have been
> negotiating a new contract for eight months now. Delta appealed
> Tuesday's ruling from a federal judge who refused to force the
> carrier's pilots, who have been working without contract since
> September of last year, to work overtime. At Northwest, union
> representatives for mechanics insist that they are overworked.
> Unfortunately for them, they can be fired if they refuse to work
> overtime. And the beat goes on.
>
> KUDOS FOR AIRTRAN: Yes, really. AirTran Airways has been awarded
> special recognition by the FAA for helping improve the inspection
> process for the now infamous DC-9/717/MD-80/MD-90 jackscrew assembly.
> To correct problems in a vaguely-worded Airworthiness Directive,
> AirTran worked with Boeing as well as the FAA to develop work cards
> that not only correctly instruct workers, but also present information
> in a manner that humans can understand.
>
> CALL TO ARMS FOR NEW JERSEY PILOTS: Two recently introduced bills in
> New Jersey are intended to prohibit the expansion or extension of any
> runway within two miles of a population of 15,000 people or more, or if
> a school is located within 3,000 feet of the proposed extension, or if
> there is a residence within 1,000 feet of the runway. AOPA has already
> mailed nearly 9,000 "Pilot Alerts" to New Jersey members, asking them
> to voice their displeasure on these "anti-airport" bills to their local
> politicians.
>
> APACHE FLEET TAKES TO THE GROUND, AGAIN: The Army has concluded, for
> the second time in 13 months, that the best place for its fleet of 742
> Boeing AH-64 Apache attack helicopters is on the ground. Last November
> the trouble was tail rotor bearings and transmission parts. Now,
> apparently the tailrotor swashplate assembly (which effectively
> produces yaw control) was found to be faulty on one aircraft at Fort
> Bragg, N.C. With the Marine's grounding of the MV-22, you could say the
> U.S. military is now "vertically impaired" -- at least to some small
> degree.
>
> OVERSIZED LAWSUIT DISMISSED: According to court papers, the woman
> weighs more than 300 lbs., and her accompanying proportions led
> Southwest Airlines to suggest that she purchase one seat for herself
> and an additional ticket for, well, the rest of her. Not surprisingly,
> such treatment motivated the woman to respond through the U.S. court
> system. Last week the scales of justice tipped against her when a Los
> Angeles, Calif., Superior Court judge ruled that the carrier's policy
> was neither illegal nor discriminatory.
>
> RHINEBECK AERODROME RECEIVES CHALLENGE GRANT: Nostalgic for the smell
> of burnt castor oil and the roar of radial engines? Would-be
> barnstormers need to visit the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome in Rhinebeck,
> N.Y., where they can explore hangars full of Bleriots, Jennys, and
> Fokkers, then watch them fly in afternoon airshows. Whoops, you can't
> go now, because the Aerodrome closes each fall for lack of climate
> control in the buildings. That's what the recently awarded challenge
> grant from the Thomas Thompson Trust in Boston, Mass., is for -- the
> Trust will donate $25,000 if the museum can raise $50,000 in matching
> contributions.
>
> NOTE: AVweb's NewsWire <http://avweb.com/n/?51a> tells
> you how to contact Rhinebeck to make a donation.
>
> GREEK CONTROLLERS GET FIVE YEARS, SORT OF: A five-year prison sentence
> was levied on two air traffic controllers who were found guilty of
> negligent manslaughter with regard to a Ukrainian Aerosweet Yak-42 that
> crashed into a mountain in 1997 while under their "care." Regardless,
> the duo won their release on appeal and it is unlikely that they will
> serve any prison time due to the nature of Greek misdemeanor law --
> which allows guilty parties to pay off their sentences at a rate of
> $5.20 per day, or about $9,500 for the entire sentence.
>
> ON THE FLY...
> <http://avweb.com/n/?51a&otf>
> Martha King appointed to First Flight Centennial Advisory Board...
> A knife-wielding passenger caused an AA jet to divert to LAX...
> A Chinese attack jet "unofficially" crashed near a residential area...
> Stanwyck Avionics developing graphical AWOS displays for the Internet...
> Tennessee Museum of Aviation moves to Gatlinburg-Pigeon Forge Airport...
> Workers ignited an old military rocket at the Bartow (Fla.) airport.
>
> _____________________________
> AVweb's AVscoop Award...
>
> Congratulations and an AVweb hat go out to Bill Salter, this
> week's AVscoop winner. Submit news tips via email to
> . Rules and information are at
> <http://www.avweb.com/newswire/newstips.html>.
>
> _______________________________________
> New Articles and Features on AVweb
>
> _______
> COLUMNS <http://www.avweb.com/toc/columns.html>
> "As The Beacon Turns: Rotor Fever"
> Too often, pilots become set in their ways, think they know
> everything and refuse to open up themselves to the many new
> experiences aviation can offer them. So discovered AVweb's Michael
> Maya Charles when he went with a friend for some impromptu
> "training" in the friend's Hughes 500 helicopter. According to
> Michael, it's like "a lot like trying to stand on a basketball on
> one foot ... in a 40-knot, gusting wind ... with your eyes closed."
> Sounds like fun, huh?
>
> ____________
> KLYDE MORRIS <http://www.avweb.com/klyde>
> Klyde's vacation tour of NASA facilities continues, with a look at some
> historical hardware and retired prototypes. But even with the latest
> technology, it seems some design features haven't changed from NASA's
> earliest days.
>
> ________
> TRAINING <http://www.avweb.com/toc/training.html>
> "Obstacles"
> Learning to fly is not without its challenges. They can range from
> unsupportive and downright hostile friends and family, to the ever-
> present financial bite flight training can take, to overcoming
> personal fears and to just plain finding the time. AVweb's series
> on primary flight training by Tina Gonsalves continues, as we ride
> along with a brand-new student during her first few flight hours and
> through her private pilot checkride.
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
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>
> Reader mail about Clinton's new ATC PBO, user fees, plastic planes,
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>
> _______________________________________
> Sponsor News and Special Offers
>
> ________
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>
> ___________________
> Short Final...
>
> More from our "who's on first?" file...
>
> A controller trainee (a.k.a., developmental) was heard to say while
> training on ground control:
>
> "Cessna 12345, are you the Cessna behind the Cessna in front of you?"
>
> Contributions to Short Final are welcomed at .
>
> ________________________________________
> We Welcome Your Feedback!
>
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> The news in this edition of AVflash and AVweb NewsWire was
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>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Jungst
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 9:20 PM
Subject: Offset VS
Tom
FWIW. I built an RV-6 and flew it 576 wonderful hrs - with a 10 inch
wedge on the rudder to get the ball right in the middle. While flying
the -6 I built an -8. I never liked having that wedge back there on the
-6, and like you, pondered the prospect of offsetting the stab on the -8
(one reason being that I stepped up to an O-360 from the O-320 and had
visions of an even bigger wedge). It's not possible to get a firm answer
on how much offset (due to many variables), so I took a SWAG and offset
by 3/32 of an inch. Lo and behold, the ball is right in the middle! Just
put my 89th hr on the RV-8 this balmy 5 below zero afternoon. Am I
happy? You bet your sweet slip or skid I am! While 3/32 doesn't sound
like much, that's a big tail back there, and we're not talking J-3 Cub
airspeeds. Another factor in my decision was that I have looked at
literally hundreds of RVs and have noticed that the vast majority have
rudder tabs of one size or another. I'd dare say that the remaining ones
are either A) unaware of how horseshit their airplanes are flying or, B)
are flying with one foot on the floor and one resting on the rudder
pedal (I did this until I got fed up with it and kept adding wedge til I
got it right on the -6).
Best regards,
Ed Jungst
Glenwood,MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Simpson <airtime(at)proaxis.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Venezuela Trip
>
>
> Here's a pic of Mike and Diane, and their RV...
> http://www.airtimemfg.com/Images/mikesRV4.jpg
> It sure is a nice one. He said he'd give me a ride, but it was getting
late
> in the day, and they had to get back home *bleah*
> SOMEDAY, I'll get my first ride in an RV...(he he, hint hint)...
>
> I was in awe too, hearing Mike tell of his plans to fly down there, when
he
> flew into Propst Field (here where I live) to buy a Ti-down kit. He had
> plans to try the Ti-downs out in the coral reef in the Bahamas, or some
> exotic place. Can't wait to hear how they work in that situation *smile*
>
> Randy Simpson
> Albany, Oregon
> http://www.airtimemfg.com
>
> >
> >Listers:
> >
> >I feel like it really is our duty to hang out at the airport. Some may
call
> >us airport bums but we know it is necessary to be at the place where
> >something interesting may happen.
> >
> >I was out there this afternoon "supervising" the first flight of a
Dragonfly
> >after an engine rebuild and sell. A N996RV called in for airport
advisory
> >and I thought that might be an RV, considering the number. Went and met
the
> >folks in the striking yellow and dark blue RV-4 and was surprised to find
it
> >was Mike and Diana, of the trip to Venezuela, which I had heard about
from
> >the list and Doug's Reeves' website http://www.vansaircraft.net . Too
bad
> >they had to buy our local, high priced gas, but it was certainly nice to
> >meet them and get the abbreviated account of their adventures.
> >
> >They seem to be doing well; well there was just a bit of grousing about
> >saddle sores after 62 hours in the cockpit, but they were cheerful. They
> >will enjoy getting home though.
> >
> >Mike and Diane left here right at sunset heading for Tucson International
> >and are hoping to make it home to Aurora, OR late tomorrow. Their stop
> >previous to Carlsbad was Waco, TX.
> >
> >Wow! I am in awe. Two people hop into a 4 with its small luggage
> >compartment and hop down to Venezuela and back. Amazing people and
amazing
> >machines.
> >
> >Larry Pardue
> >Carlsbad, NM
> >
> >RV-6 N441LP Flying
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6-A-QB Verticle Stabalizer |
This prop wash striking the left side of the Vertical Stab problem has to be
taken into account on all aerobatic competition airplanes. It is more
exaggerated there as they usually have much bigger props. The "BEST"
aeronautical solution is more right thrust in the engine. I've never heard
of a design that offsets the vertical stab. It is BEST because when you
move the VS over to offset the effect of the prop wash hitting the side of
the vertical stab at high RPMs it becomes unwanted at anytime the engine
isn't running at high RPMs. Some folks want their plane to fly true when
the engine is at less than full RPMs.
Having said that, it might be impractical to put in more Right Thrust in the
engine mount and still have proper clearance between the spinner and cowl or
engine/accessories and cowl but it would be at least worth a quick call to
Van's to find out.
lucky
>From: Thomas McIntyre <bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: 6-A-QB Verticle Stabalizer
>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:08:15 -0800
>
>
>1/4 " offset to left on my 160hp RV3. Feet off at 180 mph indicated.
>(my usual indicated cruise speed)
>Tom
>RV3 978TM
>
>
>jayeandscott wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I think that is what it means. The offset of the vert stab leadingedge
>is to
> > angle it into the clockwise(viewed from behind) rolling of the air
>coming
> > off the propellor. Sounds like a good idea-and it should be a zero-drag
> > solution over a small tab on the rudder trailing edge.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Emrath <Emrath(at)home.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 12:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: 6-A-QB Verticle Stabalizer
> >
> > >
> > > I'm not to the point of mounting my Empannage yet, but will someone
> > explain
> > > what it means to "offset" the VStab to the left? It seems to me,
>right
> > > rudder is called for and all the trim tabs I recall were 'V' wedges
> > fastened
> > > to the left face (pilot's side) of the rudder. This has the effect of
> > > pushing the rudder to the right so the pilot does not have to hold
>right
> > > rudder to fly with the ball centered at cruise. So, does "offset" mean
> > that
> > > the nose of the VStab is offset to the pilots side, relative to the
> > trailing
> > > edge of the VStab? If so, 3/8" as mentioned by another listener would
> > seem
> > > to be a large amount.
> > >
> > > Marty in Brentwood TN, RV6A "belly skinning" (snowed last night and
>this
> > > morning was 9 degrees in Nashville area - I guess I'll study plans
>instead
> > > of drilling holes in the garage today).
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ken Cantrell" <kcflyrv(at)pacbell.net>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 6:39 PM
> > > Subject: Re: RV-List: 6-A-QB Verticle Stabalizer
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Tom,
> > > > I offset my VStab 1/8" to the left in hopes that I can avoid a trim
>tab
> > on
> > > > the rudder. Unfortunately I won't be able to give you any results
>for
> > > about
> > > > a year or so. I beleive Van mentions that some builders do this to
> > > > compensate for torque and so I decided to do it as well.
> > > >
> > > > Ken Cantrell - 6QB
> > > > 34KC reserved - FWF & electrical stuff
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Tom & Cathy Ervin <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 3:33 PM
> > > > Subject: RV-List: 6-A-QB Verticle Stabalizer
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > List: I am wondering what people have done concerning an offset of
>the
> > > > > Verticle Stabalizer? I believe Van's doesn't recommend this do to
> > > various
> > > > > engine prop combinations but since I will be using a new 0-360-A1A
>and
> > > > > Hartzel Constant Speed what have other builders done?
> > > > > My A\P says the little wedge added to the Verticle Stab
>should
> > > not
> > > > > be seen on Aircraft unless it is a Spam Can.
> > > > > Scott if you are out there if Van's knew the specific
>engine
> > prop
> > > > > combo's would they know a specific successful offset for my setup?
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom in Ohio
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | plaurenc(at)bellsouth.net |
| Subject: | Fitting Tank Skins |
Mike,
I ran threaded rod through the tooling holes. and adjuusted them as needed.
Peter Laurence
> ** Original Subject: RE: RV-List: Fitting Tank Skins
> ** Original Sender: N8292W(at)AOL.COM
> ** Original Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:19:56 -0500 (EST)
> ** Original Message follows...
>
>
> I taped one side of the ribs to the skin before pulling the skin down. It
> kept them pretty close to the right location where you could use a pick
> through the drilled skin holes and get them perfect. I hope this helps!
>
> Mike
> -sealing the second tank on my RV-4
>
>
> How have others dealt with lining up the tank ribs with the pre punched
> holes in the tank skin.=A0 Unlike the leading edge ribs there are no
> lightening holes to allow for using my wooden pole to move the ribs
> around.
>
> Thanks in advance for the help.
>
> Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res)
> Plainfield, IL
> Building Tanks
> http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
>
>
>
>
>
>
>** --------- End Original Message ----------- **
>
Download the Jurassic Park Browser at http://www.jurassicpark.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators |
>
>OK, here I open a can of worms....
>
>I put vortex generators on my RV6A....what is REALLY puzzling me is how to
>reasonably determine the stall speed.
>
>I am using a TAS indicator...where should it be set? How does one account
>for all the variables without a drogue (spelling) static port, and without a
>very long pitot pick up?
>
>I take off at 7,500-feet, and do stalls at 10 to 11,000 msl so that probably
>needs to be taken into account....I am really out of my area of expertise
>(expertise, heck...out of my skimpy knowledge of such things!)
>
>Let's hear some down to earth ideas....PLEASE!
>
>Rv6A Flying Salida, CO
>
We need to take a good hard look at why we might want VGs, then we
can determine what types of flight testing might be a good thing to
do.
VGs should do several useful things, and one bad thing.
1. They should lower the stall speed a bit. This means we would have
less energy to dissipate after a forced landing, which improves the
odds of surviving. It would also help if we were doing short field
flying.
2. They might improve the aileron control at the stall. I'm not sure
if that is even an issue with RVs.
3. They might improve stall warning, by giving more buffet prior to the stall.
4. They might make the aircraft more resistant to spin entry.
5. They should lower the top speed a bit.
Now, each of us needs to figure out which of the above items are
important to us.
1. Stall speed - An aircraft should stall at the same indicated
airspeed every time, if all the conditions are the same (weight, flap
angle, g-loading, power, rate of deceleration). This is good because
we are looking at indicated airspeed all the time when we fly. But,
indicated airspeed is a poor measure of what speed our aircraft is
actually stalling at (which is what we are interested in if we want
to see if VGs will help us reduce our speed at impact in a forced
landing). An airspeed indicator is nothing more than an expensive
differential pressure indicator, with a complicated mechanism to give
it a non-linear display. It's accuracy is limited by the accuracy of
the pitot and static pressures that it senses. Given that an
aircraft must affect the pressure of the atmosphere around it, or it
couldn't fly (it needs high pressure below the wing, and low pressure
above it), it shouldn't be a surprise that it is a real trick to get
an accurate airspeed measurement that uses pressures as the parameter
that is sensed.
So, if the indicated stall speed decreases 10 mph at the stall, that
doesn't mean much, except that we can fly at a bit lower indicated
airspeed on final approach. It doesn't mean that our impact speed in
a forced landing has decreased by 10 mph. If all we cared about was
seeing a low indicated airspeed at the stall, I would suggest putting
the pitot tube on a long boom, and bending it up about 10 degrees.
Vary the amount of upwards bend until you get a stall speed worth
bragging about :-)
Now, if you care about what the real stall speed is, this is not an
easy thing to measure. In the flight test world, we use a few
different techniques. Many larger aircraft will use a static source
on a long line trailing behind the aircraft to get it in air that has
recovered from the pressures caused by the passage of the aircraft
(a.k.a trailing cone static source). I'm told they don't work that
well at low speed, but I've never tried one. In any case it would be
a lot of work to set one up.
For low speed aircraft, another classical technique is to use a
"trailing bomb", which is an aerodynamic weight, with a small
pitot-static probe on the nose that is suspended below the aircraft.
The trailing bomb has a static source error, but it is calibrated in
a wind tunnel so they can correct for the error. This makes it
pretty much out of reach for us.
Another technique is to have a pitot-static probe (some times on a
swivel) on a long boom extending ahead of the wing tip. This is the
most common technique used by the manufacturers. One RV-6 builder
has put one on his aircraft to do some testing of VGs - I'm trying to
get him to come back on the list and give a report. His boom is
mounted mid span, which isn't quite as good as the wing tip, but it
is still a lot better than just using IAS.
Another approach could be to use another aircraft with a much lower
stall speed (the pace aircraft), and an airspeed system that has been
calibrated using some decent method (GPS, etc, see the Flight Test
Links on my web site). This method has its risks though, so I would
use it with extreme caution. The two aircraft would have to fly
formation, doing a very slow deceleration in level flight. The pace
aircraft calls the airspeed every couple of knots on the radio. The
RV would have two people in it - one looking outside flying
formation, and one staring at the airspeed indicator, who would note
the radioed speed at which the stall occurs. The RV would have to be
close enough to the pace aircraft to match airspeeds, but far enough
aft so that they would not collide if the RV did something
interesting at the stall. And of course, you need a pace aircraft
with a low enough stall speed to absolutely guarantee that it does
not stall first, because a collision is quite possible if that
happens. The pace aircraft pilot must set a safe minimum speed, and
not go below it. You also need both pilots to be experienced
formation pilots.
2. though 4. - the other aspects of what a VG could do for us are
also worth looking at. You need to do careful testing with and
without VGs looking at each of these aspects.
5. top speed - this is an easy one to measure.
Take care,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 98% done)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 S-cowl forward platenuts |
> I just went to drill the holes for the forward attach points to install
the
> platenuts that go in the inside air intakes on the S cowl closest to the
> spinner. The plans call out for three number 8 plate nuts and show a
> flange that appears to be about three inches by 3/4 inch to attach them
to.
> Mine is no where near that big. Closer to two inches by about 1/2 inch.
> The best I can do is to install one platenut at best. I have not trimmed
> this area so what I have is what was shipped to me in the finish kit.
>
> Did anyone else have this problem? If so, what did you do?
Jim,
Hmmm....my flange area was more like 1 inch by about 3 inches. I put a
single lug platenut on the forward part of the left side, but otherwise
everything fit ok. I took some pictures and posted it on a page just in
case you want to look at my platenuts there - see
http://rv8asite.homestead.com/cowl.html.
Good luck,
Jerry Carter
8A cowl and baffles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators |
Yes, of course, you are correct regarding indicated airspeed at altitude. I
hit "send" a little to quick and realized that point afterward.
Thanks for the correction.
Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res)
Plainfield, IL
Building Tanks
http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
>
> Well, yes and no. You are correct that it will stall at a higher indicated
> airspeed in a steep turn, but there will be no difference in the indicated
> stalling speed
> caused by altitude-that's why we fly high-the airplane accelerates until
the
> drag equals the thrust-the same power setting must generate the same
> indicated airspeed at all altitudes-only the true airspeed goes up-----
> Original Message -----
> From: Mike Nellis <mnellis(at)emailusa.net>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 9:26 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators
>
>
> >
> > Incorrect, the wing works on Angle of Attack not airspeed.
> >
> > For example, load the plane up to gross and it might stall at
say.....55
> > mph.
> > Take that same plane loaded to gross up to 8000' and do some steep turns
> and
> > I'll guarantee that it will stall at a lot higher speed than 55 mph.
> >
> > It's all about Angle of Attack not IAS. Typical stall warning devices
are
> > angle of attack sensors not airspeed sensors.
> >
> > Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res)
> > Plainfield, IL
> > Building Tanks
> > http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
> >
> >
> > >
> > > You're right. Indicated airspeed is all the wing works on- TAS and GS
> are
> > > for navigating. The only variable could come from unstable air -as in
> > slight
> > > updrafts or downdrafts occuring during the two test flights.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Builder's Bookstore <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 2:37 PM
> > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > I put vortex generators on my RV6A....what is REALLY puzzling me
is
> > how
> > > to
> > > > > reasonably determine the stall speed.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have my VG set, but haven't installed them yet. When I do, I'm
going
> > to
> > > look
> > > > at both indicated airspeed and groundspeed as measured on the GPS.
> > Between
> > > the
> > > > two, I should get a reasonable idea of what the VGs are doing.
> However,
> > > the GPS
> > > > comparison figure is just for academic interest and has no real
value.
> > > >
> > > > The bottom line is that I don't really care what my calibrated or
true
> > > stall
> > > > speeds are. From the operational point of view of the pilot, all
that
> > > really
> > > > matters is Indicated. (Yes, I'm wearing my asbestos suit) I want to
> know
> > > how
> > > > "my" plane is going to respond in a short or power off landing
> > > configuration;
> > > > these being the times that the benefits of VGs will most come into
> play.
> > > > Indicated will always give that information in an easy to use and
> > > dependable
> > > > manner. Any other number is fairy irrelevant to the task at hand at
> that
> > > moment.
> > > >
> > > > Andy
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
>Has anyone else installed and flown the VG kit from Vetterman? I spoke with
>Larry at some length about the VG's (what a nice and helpful guy), and they
>sound like the best $350 you could spend on your airplane, but I'm wondering
>if Van himself has gotten his hands on a set and tried them out.
I am in the process of testing the Vetterman VG kit. I have gone to some
pains to install a swivel pitot head to remove as much position error as
possible. I saw the most significant change with flaps extended. I did
not go beyond 10 degrees of flaps. I will re-run the entire test
sequence using the entire flap range.
Pictures and text of the test results can be found at this link:
<http://www.ontariorvators.org/pitot/pitot.htm>
When I'm satisfied that I have good data, I will report back to the
list.
Terry Jantzi
Kitchener, ONTARIO
C-GZRV RV-6
--
<http://www.netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/> Home Page
<http://www.ontariorvators.org> VAFOW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fitting Tank Skins |
Hi Peter and everyone else that responded to my fuel tank rib position
question.
Thanks for the tips. I, too, used the rod through the tips method but
there were still a couple of flanges in the middle that didn't want to line
up near the leading edge and the middle. One list member (I apologies for
not remembering his name), mentioned that he used a yard stick and was able
to wedge the yard stick between skin and the spar and tap the tip of the
rib to position. I didn't have a yard stick but I did have a 4' piece of
flat (1/8 x 1.5") of aluminum stock. Sort of an aluminum yardstick if you
will. I rounded the top of that so as not to dig into the skin if I should
hit it, and it worked great! Tap, Tap, Tap and the flanges lined up as
nice as can be.
>
> Mike,
>
> I ran threaded rod through the tooling holes. and adjuusted them as
needed.
>
>
> Peter Laurence
>
>
> > ** Original Subject: RE: RV-List: Fitting Tank Skins
> > ** Original Sender: N8292W(at)AOL.COM
> > ** Original Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:19:56 -0500 (EST)
>
> > ** Original Message follows...
>
> >
> >
> > I taped one side of the ribs to the skin before pulling the skin down.
It
> > kept them pretty close to the right location where you could use a pick
> > through the drilled skin holes and get them perfect. I hope this
helps!
> >
> > Mike
> > -sealing the second tank on my RV-4
> >
> >
> > How have others dealt with lining up the tank ribs with the pre punched
> > holes in the tank skin.=A0 Unlike the leading edge ribs there are no
> > lightening holes to allow for using my wooden pole to move the ribs
> > around.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for the help.
> >
> > Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res)
> > Plainfield, IL
> > Building Tanks
> > http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> >** --------- End Original Message ----------- **
>
> >
>
>
> Download the Jurassic Park Browser at http://www.jurassicpark.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 S-cowl forward platenuts |
Take a look at this picture for an alternative method of securing the
cowling near spinner. This installation is on Paul Golias's plane and seems
like a nice, easy, secure method for attaching the cowl at that position.
http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page/images/DCP00889.JPG
Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res)
Plainfield, IL
Building Tanks
http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 S-cowl forward platenuts
>
> > I just went to drill the holes for the forward attach points to install
> the
> > platenuts that go in the inside air intakes on the S cowl closest to the
> > spinner. The plans call out for three number 8 plate nuts and show a
> > flange that appears to be about three inches by 3/4 inch to attach them
> to.
> > Mine is no where near that big. Closer to two inches by about 1/2 inch.
> > The best I can do is to install one platenut at best. I have not
trimmed
> > this area so what I have is what was shipped to me in the finish kit.
> >
> > Did anyone else have this problem? If so, what did you do?
>
> Jim,
>
> Hmmm....my flange area was more like 1 inch by about 3 inches. I put a
> single lug platenut on the forward part of the left side, but otherwise
> everything fit ok. I took some pictures and posted it on a page just in
> case you want to look at my platenuts there - see
> http://rv8asite.homestead.com/cowl.html.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Jerry Carter
>
> 8A cowl and baffles
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joe wiza <jwiza1(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6-A-QB Verticle Stabalizer |
--- Emrath wrote:
>
>
> I'm not to the point of mounting my Empannage yet,
> but will someone explain
> what it means to "offset" the VStab to the left? It
> seems to me, rightSeems to me Van reported a test
some years ago offsetting the vs and reported no
change. I think there may be many variables involved.
Step hanging off to the side, slight change in
incidence, I understand some of the QB left wings
were 1" longer etc. I built mine to plans and ended up
with a 3/4"x2" tab on the rudder. At 75% power @
cruise no rudder problem. Just my $.02 worth.
RV6A O360 180 CP 130 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> |
| Subject: | Another Radio for Sale |
Engines-List ,
"Rv8list@Egroups" , Rv-List
I am posting this for a friend... Please contact him directly...
King 170B with the MAC 1700 upgrade witch adds digital tuning, Flip flop on
nav and comm. extensive freq memory, synthesized voice freq readout and
synthetic voice approach countdown timer. And many flight planning
features. A great IFR nav / comm for a great price for a radio that has
never been used since OH. Will sell for $1800.00. including tray, manual
and Jack...
Burrall Sanders - yankeeair(at)earthlink.net
http://vondane.tripod.com/forsale/mac1700.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators |
Is anyone flying with Jim Frantz's AOA - If so and you are planning to
install VGs. I'd be interested in the stall AOA number before and after VG
installation.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (painting next week)
Niantic, CT (Westerly airport)
>From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators
>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:26:25 -0500
>
>
>Incorrect, the wing works on Angle of Attack not airspeed.
>
>For example, load the plane up to gross and it might stall at say.....55
>mph.
>Take that same plane loaded to gross up to 8000' and do some steep turns
>and
>I'll guarantee that it will stall at a lot higher speed than 55 mph.
>
>It's all about Angle of Attack not IAS. Typical stall warning devices are
>angle of attack sensors not airspeed sensors.
>
>Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res)
>Plainfield, IL
>Building Tanks
>http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
>
>
> >
> > You're right. Indicated airspeed is all the wing works on- TAS and GS
>are
> > for navigating. The only variable could come from unstable air -as in
>slight
> > updrafts or downdrafts occuring during the two test flights.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Builder's Bookstore <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 2:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > I put vortex generators on my RV6A....what is REALLY puzzling me is
>how
> > to
> > > > reasonably determine the stall speed.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I have my VG set, but haven't installed them yet. When I do, I'm going
>to
> > look
> > > at both indicated airspeed and groundspeed as measured on the GPS.
>Between
> > the
> > > two, I should get a reasonable idea of what the VGs are doing.
>However,
> > the GPS
> > > comparison figure is just for academic interest and has no real value.
> > >
> > > The bottom line is that I don't really care what my calibrated or true
> > stall
> > > speeds are. From the operational point of view of the pilot, all that
> > really
> > > matters is Indicated. (Yes, I'm wearing my asbestos suit) I want to
>know
> > how
> > > "my" plane is going to respond in a short or power off landing
> > configuration;
> > > these being the times that the benefits of VGs will most come into
>play.
> > > Indicated will always give that information in an easy to use and
> > dependable
> > > manner. Any other number is fairy irrelevant to the task at hand at
>that
> > moment.
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skybolt-aviator" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators
>
> > I put vortex generators on my RV6A....what is REALLY puzzling me is how
to
> > reasonably determine the stall speed.
> The bottom line is that I don't really care what my calibrated or true
stall
> speeds are. >
> Andy
>
> Right on,I agree with you.
Ollie&Lorene Washburn
RV6-A,N795LW,@FD77.
O-360,180HP,C/S,300+hrs.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: 6-A-QB Verticle Stabalizer |
I think your generalizations are off base. Why? because when you say you
have never heard of a design with the vertical stab offset. Try Cessna,
Beech, Piper, Bellanca, Aeronca for just a few. Most airplanes do have an
offset vertical stab and engine offset as well. Neither are perfect, but
they compliment the other without having to go to extremes with either.
----- Original Message -----
From: lucky macy <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: 6-A-QB Verticle Stabalizer
>
> This prop wash striking the left side of the Vertical Stab problem has to
be
> taken into account on all aerobatic competition airplanes. It is more
> exaggerated there as they usually have much bigger props. The "BEST"
> aeronautical solution is more right thrust in the engine. I've never
heard
> of a design that offsets the vertical stab. It is BEST because when you
> move the VS over to offset the effect of the prop wash hitting the side of
> the vertical stab at high RPMs it becomes unwanted at anytime the engine
> isn't running at high RPMs. Some folks want their plane to fly true when
> the engine is at less than full RPMs.
>
> Having said that, it might be impractical to put in more Right Thrust in
the
> engine mount and still have proper clearance between the spinner and cowl
or
> engine/accessories and cowl but it would be at least worth a quick call to
> Van's to find out.
>
> lucky
>
> >From: Thomas McIntyre <bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: 6-A-QB Verticle Stabalizer
> >Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:08:15 -0800
> >
> >
> >1/4 " offset to left on my 160hp RV3. Feet off at 180 mph indicated.
> >(my usual indicated cruise speed)
> >Tom
> >RV3 978TM
> >
> >
> >jayeandscott wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I think that is what it means. The offset of the vert stab leadingedge
> >is to
> > > angle it into the clockwise(viewed from behind) rolling of the air
> >coming
> > > off the propellor. Sounds like a good idea-and it should be a
zero-drag
> > > solution over a small tab on the rudder trailing edge.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Emrath <Emrath(at)home.com>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 12:37 PM
> > > Subject: Re: RV-List: 6-A-QB Verticle Stabalizer
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm not to the point of mounting my Empannage yet, but will someone
> > > explain
> > > > what it means to "offset" the VStab to the left? It seems to me,
> >right
> > > > rudder is called for and all the trim tabs I recall were 'V' wedges
> > > fastened
> > > > to the left face (pilot's side) of the rudder. This has the effect
of
> > > > pushing the rudder to the right so the pilot does not have to hold
> >right
> > > > rudder to fly with the ball centered at cruise. So, does "offset"
mean
> > > that
> > > > the nose of the VStab is offset to the pilots side, relative to the
> > > trailing
> > > > edge of the VStab? If so, 3/8" as mentioned by another listener
would
> > > seem
> > > > to be a large amount.
> > > >
> > > > Marty in Brentwood TN, RV6A "belly skinning" (snowed last night and
> >this
> > > > morning was 9 degrees in Nashville area - I guess I'll study plans
> >instead
> > > > of drilling holes in the garage today).
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Ken Cantrell" <kcflyrv(at)pacbell.net>
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 6:39 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: RV-List: 6-A-QB Verticle Stabalizer
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom,
> > > > > I offset my VStab 1/8" to the left in hopes that I can avoid a
trim
> >tab
> > > on
> > > > > the rudder. Unfortunately I won't be able to give you any results
> >for
> > > > about
> > > > > a year or so. I beleive Van mentions that some builders do this to
> > > > > compensate for torque and so I decided to do it as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ken Cantrell - 6QB
> > > > > 34KC reserved - FWF & electrical stuff
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Tom & Cathy Ervin <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 3:33 PM
> > > > > Subject: RV-List: 6-A-QB Verticle Stabalizer
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > List: I am wondering what people have done concerning an offset
of
> >the
> > > > > > Verticle Stabalizer? I believe Van's doesn't recommend this do
to
> > > > various
> > > > > > engine prop combinations but since I will be using a new
0-360-A1A
> >and
> > > > > > Hartzel Constant Speed what have other builders done?
> > > > > > My A\P says the little wedge added to the Verticle Stab
> >should
> > > > not
> > > > > > be seen on Aircraft unless it is a Spam Can.
> > > > > > Scott if you are out there if Van's knew the specific
> >engine
> > > prop
> > > > > > combo's would they know a specific successful offset for my
setup?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tom in Ohio
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skybolt-aviator" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators |
Go back to basics: it will always stall at higher a/s in a steep turn.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators
>
> Incorrect, the wing works on Angle of Attack not airspeed.
>
> For example, load the plane up to gross and it might stall at say.....55
> mph.
> Take that same plane loaded to gross up to 8000' and do some steep turns
and
> I'll guarantee that it will stall at a lot higher speed than 55 mph.
>
> It's all about Angle of Attack not IAS. Typical stall warning devices are
> angle of attack sensors not airspeed sensors.
>
> Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res)
> Plainfield, IL
> Building Tanks
> http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
>
>
> >
> > You're right. Indicated airspeed is all the wing works on- TAS and GS
are
> > for navigating. The only variable could come from unstable air -as in
> slight
> > updrafts or downdrafts occuring during the two test flights.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Builder's Bookstore <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 2:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > I put vortex generators on my RV6A....what is REALLY puzzling me is
> how
> > to
> > > > reasonably determine the stall speed.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I have my VG set, but haven't installed them yet. When I do, I'm going
> to
> > look
> > > at both indicated airspeed and groundspeed as measured on the GPS.
> Between
> > the
> > > two, I should get a reasonable idea of what the VGs are doing.
However,
> > the GPS
> > > comparison figure is just for academic interest and has no real value.
> > >
> > > The bottom line is that I don't really care what my calibrated or true
> > stall
> > > speeds are. From the operational point of view of the pilot, all that
> > really
> > > matters is Indicated. (Yes, I'm wearing my asbestos suit) I want to
know
> > how
> > > "my" plane is going to respond in a short or power off landing
> > configuration;
> > > these being the times that the benefits of VGs will most come into
play.
> > > Indicated will always give that information in an easy to use and
> > dependable
> > > manner. Any other number is fairy irrelevant to the task at hand at
that
> > moment.
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
Listen up RVers!
Terry's site provides a very well organized, professional critique of VGs.
It is a must-see. Terry and Kevin Horton provide the List with valuable
information about our planes. Don't miss their offerings.
Keep up the good work, Terry!
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP 25 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com>
Date: Monday, December 18, 2000 8:14 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: vortex generators
>
>>Has anyone else installed and flown the VG kit from Vetterman? I spoke
with
>>Larry at some length about the VG's (what a nice and helpful guy), and
they
>>sound like the best $350 you could spend on your airplane, but I'm
wondering
>>if Van himself has gotten his hands on a set and tried them out.
>
>
>I am in the process of testing the Vetterman VG kit. I have gone to some
>pains to install a swivel pitot head to remove as much position error as
>possible. I saw the most significant change with flaps extended. I did
>not go beyond 10 degrees of flaps. I will re-run the entire test
>sequence using the entire flap range.
>
>Pictures and text of the test results can be found at this link:
>
><http://www.ontariorvators.org/pitot/pitot.htm>
>
>When I'm satisfied that I have good data, I will report back to the
>list.
>
>Terry Jantzi
>Kitchener, ONTARIO
>C-GZRV RV-6
>--
><http://www.netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/> Home Page
> <http://www.ontariorvators.org> VAFOW
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Acceptable repairs |
I have often turned to the RV List for help when I probably should have
called Van's. I sadly regret that I have encountered several commuications
with Van's in which I was treated in an unprofessional and at times, even
rude, manner. On several occasions I too was given incorrect technical
information. This may in part explain why some of us turn to the RV-List
when we really should contact Van's.
In defense of Van's, I have unquestionably received a lot of bad information
from the RV-List and there is certainly a lot of unfriendly criticism on the
List. The difference is, I expect far more of Van's and am keenly
disappointed when they do not meet my expectations.
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP 25 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
From: kempthornes <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Date: Sunday, December 17, 2000 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Acceptable repairs
>
>Harry wrote:
>> Just my humble opinion but it seems like you are getting a lot of
>> non-expert responses when a phone call, e-mail or fax to Van's would get
>you
>> a knowledgeable and reliable answer to your question.
>
>Harry, this a put down for all who try to be helpful and it is wrong.
>
>My not so humble opinion is that to fail to take advantage of the
>discussions, answers and all else that is available from this great group
is
>a mistake.
>
>For example, Tom Green, whom I like a lot, told me one time that steel was
>hundreds of time stronger than aluminum. The real answer is as low as two!
>
>Hal Kempthorne
>N7HK - Might fly next week!
>
>>
>> Harry Crosby
>> Pleasanton, California
>> RV-6, working on canopy installation
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 6-A-QB Verticle Stabalizer |
Just a note of caution to those contemplating the notion of offsetting their
VS. I researched this issue fairly thoroughly a while ago when it was
approaching time to mount my VS. I had long conversations with Bill Bendict,
Ken Krueger, and other experienced builders. Some things to be aware of:
1. As we all know RVs have their engine thrustlines angled to the right to
compensate for assymetrical thrust via the engine mount geometry. Of course
with the variety of engines, props, and airframe finish details there's no
way they can guess correctly for all scenarios, but there is some built-in
compensation.
2. Small things like the alignment of your landing gear fairings and wheel
pants can effect yaw trim without you realizing it. Other subtle things such
as more drag in one wing than the other can influence the final balance
also. Wouldn't take much extra drag near the ailerons to induce some yaw.
Also, what if your rudder has a bit of twist, or has the horn somehow not
centered like mine? What will that do to the final trim?
3. Van's official recommendation is to NOT offset the VS.
Since there are many variables, since there is built-in compensation, and
since Van's recommends against it, I mounted mine straight. However
aesthetically displeasing this may be, I made and mounted an adjustable
aluminum tab about midway up the trailing edge. That way I can compensate
for anything including changes that may be made down the road. True, many
find this visually offensive, but I appreciate the functionality and
adjustability of it. Local builder Randall Henderson took the same approach.
Now that he's flying I seem to recall that his tab is adjusted pretty much
in trail, but at least he has the ability to fine tune it if need be, as
will I.
FWIW,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, painting
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
12/18/2000 11:50:42
The qualitity of the Dremmels may have gone down a notch or two...... but
the crap I am cutting (fiberglass) may be eating up the dremmel. I never
cut fiberglass before working on my airplane......\
JDaniel343(at)AOL.COM
Sent by: To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
owner-rv-list-server@mat cc:
ronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Dremel
tool
12/17/2000 12:12 AM
Please respond to
rv-list
I purchased my variable speed Dremel in 1974. I find myself constantly
using
it. Its been sounding a little dirty lately, probably needs new brushes but
it sure works good.
I don't know how the new ones are, although from the list members it sounds
like quality has gone down.
John Danielson
Engine Installation and finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Electrical Questions |
Dear listers,
I am installing a single belly strobe on my RV-4 using a Kuntzelman
streamlined strobe head (kestrobes.com)and a Nova power supply that a friend
in the business gave me. (Wingtip Whelens are comming someday, but I can't
beat the price of this system: $50 for the head, $14 for the switch = $64)
My questions are as follows.
1) What is the appropriate size wire to make a 6 foot run from the switch to
the strobe. Assume 10 amps.
2)What is standard aircraft practice? Do I need to run a ground wire, or
just ground to the airframe?
3)I have a lot of flexibility as far as where I mount the power supply.
What will give the least electrical noise:
a)Long 12 volt lines and short high tension strobe lead
b)Short 12 vold line and long high tension strobe lead
My gut tells me a short strobe lead, but someone told me that the noise
actually comes from the 12 volt line when the power supply charges because
the resistance and therefore the current of the 12v source to the power
supply is constantly changing.
Thanks for the enlightenment.
PLEASE REPLY OFF LIST AS i ONLY GET THE ONCE DAILY LIST SUMMARY AND i WANT
TO WORK ON MY PLANE TONIGHT IF i GET AN ANSWER.
Best regards,
Don Mei
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Epoxy-Fiberglass Question |
In a message dated 12/17/00 11:26:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,
pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com writes:
<< Is epoxy compatible with the tips Vans supplies? >>
Yes.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, working on canopy installation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: External Power Receptacle |
>
> >I would like to have an external power receptacle on my RV6A. In the
> Spruce catalog page 351 there seems to be two ways to go. A round
> Piper one and an oval standard one. Which is best?
If you haven't seen those up close you might want to have a look at one
before getting one. They're quite big and heavy. My external power
receptacle cost around $3. All it is is a lighter socket that's wired
directly to the battery. Doubles as an external power source for devices
that have lighter socket plugs. I ran #12 wires to it and put a 10A inline
fuse at to the battery end so it could carry charging current. Wouldn't use
it for starting but it works great for charging.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Customer Service Was: Acceptable repairs |
People are always going to have good and bad days. I pride myself on the
customer support I provide my network users where I work. However, there
are days when I don't feel good, haven't slept, got bad news, etc., and I
don't treat people as nicely as I should. Remember that the guys at Van's
are human and are subject to the same moods we all have. However, if you
receive this kind of treatment regularly from the folks at Van's or any
company for that matter, ask to speak to their manager. Management
definitely does not want you treated poorly. If no one brings it to their
attention, they can not help remedy the situation.
I have rarely called Van's technical help line but I know some of the guys
on the other end can be kind of brusque. One gentleman was downright rude
(I thought). After he was done with his diatribe I asked him if I had said
something to "piss" him off. I asked if there was anyone else I could speak
to. He calmed down immediately and apologized and proceeded to tell me
that, no there was no one else I could speak to because he was alone that
day.
Don't be bashful. The people at Van's aren't gods. Speak up. They'll
listen.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Persyk [mailto:dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 8:32 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Acceptable repairs
I have often turned to the RV List for help when I probably
should have
called Van's. I sadly regret that I have encountered
several commuications
with Van's in which I was treated in an unprofessional and
at times, even
rude, manner. On several occasions I too was given incorrect
technical
information. This may in part explain why some of us turn
to the RV-List
when we really should contact Van's.
In defense of Van's, I have unquestionably received a lot of
bad information
from the RV-List and there is certainly a lot of unfriendly
criticism on the
keenly
disappointed when they do not meet my expectations.
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP 25 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Questions |
I think your amp draw is very high. I would check it carefully. If you use
wiring for that amount, a correct in-line fuse can protect the power supply
even if one would go to welding cable. The noise of the switching power
supply is in the lead to the supply, not as much with the high voltage which
can be shielded. If you get noise, then a choke or a ferrite bead should
make it quieter.
----- Original Message -----
From: Donald Mei <don_mei(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 4:55 PM
Subject: RV-List: Electrical Questions
>
> Dear listers,
>
> I am installing a single belly strobe on my RV-4 using a Kuntzelman
> streamlined strobe head (kestrobes.com)and a Nova power supply that a
friend
> in the business gave me. (Wingtip Whelens are comming someday, but I
can't
> beat the price of this system: $50 for the head, $14 for the switch = $64)
> My questions are as follows.
>
> 1) What is the appropriate size wire to make a 6 foot run from the switch
to
> the strobe. Assume 10 amps.
>
> 2)What is standard aircraft practice? Do I need to run a ground wire, or
> just ground to the airframe?
>
> 3)I have a lot of flexibility as far as where I mount the power supply.
> What will give the least electrical noise:
>
> a)Long 12 volt lines and short high tension strobe lead
> b)Short 12 vold line and long high tension strobe lead
>
> My gut tells me a short strobe lead, but someone told me that the noise
> actually comes from the 12 volt line when the power supply charges because
> the resistance and therefore the current of the 12v source to the power
> supply is constantly changing.
>
> Thanks for the enlightenment.
>
> PLEASE REPLY OFF LIST AS i ONLY GET THE ONCE DAILY LIST SUMMARY AND i WANT
> TO WORK ON MY PLANE TONIGHT IF i GET AN ANSWER.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Don Mei
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Burch" <rv6man(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators> --> >
> We need to take a good hard look at why we might want VGs, then we
> can determine what types of flight testing might be a good thing to
> do.
>
> VGs should do several useful things, and one bad thing.
>
You guys are making this alot more complicated than it needs to be.
It lowers stall about 6-7 mph. I can prove this as I have hundreds of hours
flying very close to other RV's.Also , let us not forget that the stall
reduction at 4 G's
is twice that at 1G. That means that in a dog fight I can pull 4 G's 14mph
slower than my competition.
It is not just about lowering landing speed. It is about margins and screw
ups.
Also the recovery from stalls is much faster than before. The closer you fly
to
outside of the envelope , the more you feel the difference.
I will give you an example. After installing the VG's, I was flying at
night. Going into
a dark airpark. During the touch down, the plane would not stay on the
runway.
I did not realize it at the time, but my overhead rudder pedals had broken.
I was left with either
to fly or die. I poured the coals to it and guess what happened .The CS prop
did a great job
of turning me right at a house along the runway. My tires left the runway
just as I was becoming
airborn. This is great except for the fact that I am now in the dark at no
altitude heading
for a house. I was left with rolling up on a wing tip and pulling. The good
news is that I am here
to pass on the story. I cant say that I would not have made it with out
VG's, but I was sure glad for the
added margins.
As far as top end, I'll say it again, I could not see any difference.Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators |
Can you not determine stall speeds with GPS in still air by 4 or more
headings?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6-A-QB Verticle Stabalizer |
>Since there are many variables, since there is built-in compensation, and
>since Van's recommends against it, I mounted mine straight.
That's what is so great about building them yourself.
>However aesthetically displeasing this may be, I made and mounted an
>adjustable
>aluminum tab about midway up the trailing edge. That way I can compensate
>for anything including changes that may be made down the road.
Well, you can adjust the more hidden wedge, just not as immediate. You take
a wedge of whatever (wood, plastic, aluminum) and duct tape it on the
rudder, usually the port side, depending on what rudder you have to push
too much. Too big? File some off. Too small? Make a bigger one. Then use
those dimensions to make a permanent one out of plexiglass or aluminum and
tape THAT one on and test it. If it works how you want it to, blind rivet
it in place. IMHO, looks a bit more "on purpose" than one sticking out of
the trailing edge. There is a whole side of the airplane you can't even see
it from, and barely from the other side.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
I'm having trouble finding an inexpensive (relatively) wood prop. I talked
to Sensenich and their would prop, adapter, and crush plate came out only
$300 less than their metal prop! Anyone have any suggestions. I want to go
metal but just don't like that 2600 RPM limit on the metal props (I have the
O320). I checked in the Yeller pages but the phone numbers for Props Inc
and Pacesetter are incomplete. My email was returned when I tried to email
Aymar-Deymuth. Catto props looks promising and they are close by. Anyone
have any experience with them? I'm still waiting for a quote on pricing
from them.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engine Parts / Supplier |
12/18/2000 14:35:01
Retitled for future e-searching
b green
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: cc:
owner-rv-list-server@mat Subject: Re: RV-List: Lycoming
IO-360-XXX
ronics.com
12/14/2000 08:40 PM
Please respond to
rv-list
I believe there website is www.skydynamics.com. I would agree that the
sump and exhaust components from Sky Dynamics are top notch. Have had
them both on my Skybolt for the last 15 years.
>
> How is the best way to get in contact with Sky Dynmanics.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque Values |
12/18/2000 15:37:12
I recently called Vans to inquire about Torque values for the wing bolts. I
did my homework and consulted the FAA text on Acceptable Repair Methods
Book & a 30 page text on Torque I found on the internet........ So I
thought I was ready to go. I called Vans to double check & here is what I
learned: A) Even though we use the expensive NAS 1306 & 1304 bolts for the
wing spar (along with the #10 bolts) we are instructed to use the STANDARD
elastic stop NUTS in the plans........ Since we cinch up the NUTS with the
torque wrench...... the Tech rep at Vans said we use the STANDARD torque
values for standard aircraft ansi fasteners, not the exotic NAS XXXX or
whathaveyou. B) All values for torque in Vans world are TENSION. Even
if a bolt might be in in sheer load, treat the torque value as if the
fastener is in tension.....So sayth the Vans Tech Rep.
BTW, a neat trick to ensure your torque wrench is (somewhat) accurate or
near accurate.........place a bolt in your vise,attach your torque wrench
via a socket to the captured bolt and place a known weight on some safety
wire and loop the safety wire around the handle at the pivot. Read the
deflection on the torque wrench...it should be whatever the weight you hung
times the distance from the bolt to the handle pivot. I used a 5 pound
metal lifting weight......easy & simple. I got the idea from someone on
this e-list.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcbraem(at)home.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wood propellers |
Have you tried Ed Sterba? He's moved from Wisconsin to Florida, so the
phone# in The Yeller Pages is wrong. He does excellent work and will
re-pitch your prop as you require.
Boyd
N600SS
SW FL
>
>
> I'm having trouble finding an inexpensive (relatively) wood prop. I talked
> to Sensenich and their would prop, adapter, and crush plate came out only
> $300 less than their metal prop! Anyone have any suggestions. I want to go
> metal but just don't like that 2600 RPM limit on the metal props (I have the
> O320). I checked in the Yeller pages but the phone numbers for Props Inc
> and Pacesetter are incomplete. My email was returned when I tried to email
> Aymar-Deymuth. Catto props looks promising and they are close by. Anyone
> have any experience with them? I'm still waiting for a quote on pricing
> from them.
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
> Network Administrator
> Union Safe Deposit Bank
> 209-946-5116
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators |
Jim's PSS AOA does not give any sort of numerical readout on AOA. The sport
Version uses LEDs to notify the pilot when you are approaching critical
angle of attack by going from Green to Yellow to Red and also with an aural
warning "angle, angle, push". The AOA is calibrated for each different wing
and each installation so the angle of attack will show the same weather or
not the VG's are installed. If the VG's do work and you don't recalibrate
the AOA computer, then when the display shows that critical AOA has been
reached it will still alert you but the plane will continue flying. By
installing VG's you are effectively changing the airfoil and the AOA will
have to be recalibrated (an easy process that take just a few minutes
depending on experience).
http://www.angle-of-attack.com
By the way, in case anyone is wondering, I'm not affiliated in any way with
Proprietary Software Systems AOA other than as a customer and someone who
need to be able to get into fields shorter than 1200' and believes that slow
flight by AOA......good. Slow flight by airspeed only......Bad
Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res)
Plainfield, IL
Building Tanks
http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators
>
> Is anyone flying with Jim Frantz's AOA - If so and you are planning to
> install VGs. I'd be interested in the stall AOA number before and after VG
> installation.
>
> Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
> RV-8A (painting next week)
> Niantic, CT (Westerly airport)
>
>
> >From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators
> >Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:26:25 -0500
> >
> >
> >Incorrect, the wing works on Angle of Attack not airspeed.
> >
> >For example, load the plane up to gross and it might stall at say.....55
> >mph.
> >Take that same plane loaded to gross and do some steep turns
> >and
> >I'll guarantee that it will stall at a lot higher speed than 55 mph.
> >
> >It's all about Angle of Attack not IAS. Typical stall warning devices
are
> >angle of attack sensors not airspeed sensors.
> >
> >Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res)
> >Plainfield, IL
> >Building Tanks
> >http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
> >
> >
> > >
> > > You're right. Indicated airspeed is all the wing works on- TAS and GS
> >are
> > > for navigating. The only variable could come from unstable air -as in
> >slight
> > > updrafts or downdrafts occuring during the two test flights.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Builder's Bookstore <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 2:37 PM
> > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > I put vortex generators on my RV6A....what is REALLY puzzling me
is
> >how
> > > to
> > > > > reasonably determine the stall speed.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have my VG set, but haven't installed them yet. When I do, I'm
going
> >to
> > > look
> > > > at both indicated airspeed and groundspeed as measured on the GPS.
> >Between
> > > the
> > > > two, I should get a reasonable idea of what the VGs are doing.
> >However,
> > > the GPS
> > > > comparison figure is just for academic interest and has no real
value.
> > > >
> > > > The bottom line is that I don't really care what my calibrated or
true
> > > stall
> > > > speeds are. From the operational point of view of the pilot, all
that
> > > really
> > > > matters is Indicated. (Yes, I'm wearing my asbestos suit) I want to
> >know
> > > how
> > > > "my" plane is going to respond in a short or power off landing
> > > configuration;
> > > > these being the times that the benefits of VGs will most come into
> >play.
> > > > Indicated will always give that information in an easy to use and
> > > dependable
> > > > manner. Any other number is fairy irrelevant to the task at hand at
> >that
> > > moment.
> > > >
> > > > Andy
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators |
Exactly! My only point was that the statement "> > > Indicated airspeed is
all the wing works on" is not a true statement. Weight, CG, humidity and
other factors affect what the stall speed will be. But one thing doesn't
change, the wing will always stall at the same AOA regardless of weight, CG,
humidity, angle of bank airspeed etc (assuming no airfoil changes like bugs,
frost etc.). The only way to know what the optimum Angle of Attack is, is
by using some instrument whether it be a stall warning horn, or one of
various AOA devices on the market.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "skybolt-aviator" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators
>
> Go back to basics: it will always stall at higher a/s in a steep turn.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)emailusa.net>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 12:26 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators
>
>
> >
> > Incorrect, the wing works on Angle of Attack not airspeed.
> >
> > For example, load the plane up to gross and it might stall at
say.....55
> > mph.
> > Take that same plane loaded to gross up to 8000' and do some steep turns
> and
> > I'll guarantee that it will stall at a lot higher speed than 55 mph.
> >
> > It's all about Angle of Attack not IAS. Typical stall warning devices
are
> > angle of attack sensors not airspeed sensors.
> >
> > Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res)
> > Plainfield, IL
> > Building Tanks
> > http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
> >
> >
> > >
> > > You're right. Indicated airspeed is all the wing works on- TAS and GS
> are
> > > for navigating. The only variable could come from unstable air -as in
> > slight
> > > updrafts or downdrafts occuring during the two test flights.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Builder's Bookstore <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 2:37 PM
> > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > I put vortex generators on my RV6A....what is REALLY puzzling me
is
> > how
> > > to
> > > > > reasonably determine the stall speed.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have my VG set, but haven't installed them yet. When I do, I'm
going
> > to
> > > look
> > > > at both indicated airspeed and groundspeed as measured on the GPS.
> > Between
> > > the
> > > > two, I should get a reasonable idea of what the VGs are doing.
> However,
> > > the GPS
> > > > comparison figure is just for academic interest and has no real
value.
> > > >
> > > > The bottom line is that I don't really care what my calibrated or
true
> > > stall
> > > > speeds are. From the operational point of view of the pilot, all
that
> > > really
> > > > matters is Indicated. (Yes, I'm wearing my asbestos suit) I want to
> know
> > > how
> > > > "my" plane is going to respond in a short or power off landing
> > > configuration;
> > > > these being the times that the benefits of VGs will most come into
> play.
> > > > Indicated will always give that information in an easy to use and
> > > dependable
> > > > manner. Any other number is fairy irrelevant to the task at hand at
> that
> > > moment.
> > > >
> > > > Andy
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Christie" <billc(at)dancris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Already?!? |
Dan,
I got the wing and fuselage at the same time. When I started the fuselage.
most of the skins had surface discoloration under the vinyl, some of it
quite severe. This wasn't crystaline in nature but irregular swirls and
ripples of black / brown. I pulled all the vinyl off, removed all the
discoloration with a scotchbrite pad on a pad sander, then primed it. I
checked thickness in several places and lost no more than 1 to 1.5
thousandths of an inch. I spoke with Tom Green at Copperstate and he had no
explanation for why this happened, but agreed with my actions. Interestingly
enough, none of the non-alclad parts had any corrosion on them. The wing and
empennage skins were flawless.
Bill Christie, RV8A, Phoenix, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: Reeves Family <wdaphdas(at)msn.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 6:05 PM
Subject: RV-List: Corrosion Already?!?
>
> I purchased my RV-6A empennage kit a little over a year ago but I am just
> now starting to work on it. When the kit first arrived, I inventoried the
> two boxes and then tucked everything away on a wood shelf in the basement
> while I collected tools, attended a workshop, and mostly procrastinated
> getting started. My basement is very dry. However, Pennsylvania is very
> humid. All of the parts were removed from the boxes and the shipping
paper,
> the protective vinyl coating left on, and then they were all laid out
> together on one of the white foam sheets that everything was shipped with.
> I then laid another foam sheet on top of the parts to keep the dust off.
>
> When I recently started pulling parts off the shelf, I noticed some thin,
> white, salt-like crystals on some of the ribs that didn't have the
> protective vinyl coating on them. I didn't worry too much about it since
I
> could brush most of it off with my fingers. However, I started
inspecting
> everything much closer and unfortunately found much heavier deposits on
the
> vertical stabilizer skin. This stuff was underneath the vinyl coating on
> both sides, all the way around the edges, from the edge of the skin in to
> where the rivet holes start. The vinyl coating was still on tight. When
I
> pulled the vinyl back about an inch from the edges, the corrosion had
eaten
> through the alclad in several spots close to the edge. All of the other
> skins seemed OK.
>
> Has anyone else experienced something like this? I am not sure why only
> this skin and some of the ribs have the problem. I was planning on
priming
> things as I go but maybe I need to reconsider and prime everything as soon
> as they come in the door. Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan - empennage corroding in Pennsylvania.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rivinut Question |
Does anyone know where I can get a 4-40 rivinut set? Spruce starts at 6-32
and larger. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
-Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Another First Flight |
I'm pleased to announce that, after two horizontal stabilizers, three
rudder skins, many parts to replace the ones I screwed up, five years,
five months, and three days, I flew the maiden flight of my RV-6A,
"LOT$A JACK," N333JA, at Camarillo Airport, California on 5 December. I
had moved the project from my garage in Los Angeles on 5 October,
exactly two months prior to the first flight.
I have five flights, 6.3 hours, and five landings on the airplane now,
each one of which was a genuine greaser. The airplane is a joy to fly
(now that I've corrected a heavy wing), much easier to fly and land than
the three RV-6As I flew to prepare myself for this first flight,
especially the RV-6A I flew with Mike Seager. I've had a hydraulic
leak, fuel leak (on the ground), and three oil leaks thus far, but I've
managed to fix them all. I continue making minor fixes and fussing with
other things as my flight test program unfolds.
I was surprised that the airplane is so loud. I actually have
difficulty understanding controllers at times, despite a couple of first
class radios and Bose headsets. A friend of mine who also flew his
first flight recently complains about the same problem. I wonder how
many others have the same experience. No controller has yet complained
about difficulty hearing or understanding my transmissions, but I can't
say the same. I keep fiddling with the squelch, volume, and mike
position, but I can't seem to make any headway. If anyone has some
ideas, I'd love to hear them.
Best wishes to all,
Jack Abell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <Scott.Wilder(at)sf.frb.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Epoxy-Fiberglass Question |
FWW- epoxy is compatible w/polyester based resins, you may use epoxy based
resins to adhere to FRP, however, do not use polyester based resin to
adhere to epoxy - once you use epoxy you can't go back to polyester.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Slider Fiberglass Skirt |
Several people asked how I made my fiberglass rear skirt for the -6. Here
is what I did. I'm sure some of these steps could be streamlined.
I had the al. side skirts and plexi clecoed on & the plexi trimmed to final
shape. The holes were drilled thru the plexi and the rear frame around the
back side. There was about 2.5" gap from the plexi to the rear turtle deck
that had to be spanned with the FG skirt. Some I laid up 2 plys of 5.7 oz.
BID fiberglass to span the gap. I taped the rear turtle deck to the rear
frame with packing tape, with plexi removed. Cut two long strips of cloth
on the 45 deg. bias, plenty wide to span from the frame to the turtle deck.
Wet out the cloth with epoxy, i chose to brush epoxy on the packing tape,
lay a piece of cloth in place, then wet it out by brushing on more resin.
Then lay on a 2nd piece of cloth & wet out with the brush. After this
hardens, the FG is drilled thru to the holes in the rear frame. Remove this
piece & all tape. The FG is then trimmed with scissors 1/4" away from the
holes and to about 1/2" overlap onto the top skin. This FG was done in two
pieces, one for each side. They met up by the slider track.
This piece was then taped over with packing tape, then the plexi reinstalled
on the frame. The rear was taped down tight to the top skin. The tape was
waxed. Modeling clay is used to form around the slider track. Electricians
tape is used around the edges to mark where the fiberglass will be trimmed.
Back from this tape, everything is masked off well. I taped down around the
side skirts so I could pick up two rivets thru the FG & into the side
skirts. Now you're ready to lay up the rear skirt.
Cut enough cloth on the bias for about 4 layers. I cut them so they
overlapped in the middle above the slider track (this doubles the thickness
up there.) Two of the strips were a little narrower than the first two.
With this done, time to mix resin.
Brush on resin over the lay up area. Then mix up some cotton flock with the
epoxy resin. Use this very thick goo to fill in everywhere need to make a
smooth transition like around the rear of the plexi and the side skirts.
Brush on resin over this goo. Lay on the first piece of fiberglass,
starting 3" on the other side of the top track & then down onto the side
skirt. Wet out & repeat on the other side. Repeat until done. Wait a
couple hrs. until the resin is like rubber & then trim w/ an exacto knife
carefully to get to your electrician tape edge. I did this trimming only
over the plexi & the side skirts. I just sanded the rear edge to get a
smooth edge after the fairing was done.
Retape the front edge after the resin hardens. Drill thru FG to the holes
in the frame & skirts. Now the FG needs filling. I use WEST Microlite
filler mixed with epoxy. Sand the fiberglass & wipe off the dust. Brush
resin & filler on the fiberglass. Squeege on thick filler to fill the low
spots. When cured, sand with 60 grit on a rubber block. Repeat 2 or 3
times until you're satisfied. Drill the holes again because they now have
filler in them & c'sink for the rivets.
Open up the slider and pull out the first FG piece you made from under the
plexi. Sand the rear edge of the FG skirt. Remove all tape. Rivet on the
plexi. Fill the rivet heads w/ epoxy/filler. Brush on straight resin when
done filling. Final sand w/ 180/240 grit. Don't sand thru the resin/filler
to the FG 'cause pinholes will appear.
Close the canopy and then try to imagine getting a fit like that with
aluminum!
Hope this helps someone.
Rick Caldwell
-6 170 hrs
Melbourne, FL
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque Values |
-----Original Message-----
From: pcondon(at)csc.com <pcondon(at)csc.com>
Date: Monday, December 18, 2000 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque Values
>
>I recently called Vans to inquire about Torque values for the wing bolts. I
>did my homework and consulted the FAA text on Acceptable Repair Methods
>Book & a 30 page text on Torque I found on the internet........ So I
>thought I was ready to go. I called Vans to double check & here is what I
>learned: A) Even though we use the expensive NAS 1306 & 1304 bolts for the
>wing spar (along with the #10 bolts) we are instructed to use the STANDARD
>elastic stop NUTS in the plans........ Since we cinch up the NUTS with the
>torque wrench...... the Tech rep at Vans said we use the STANDARD torque
>values for standard aircraft ansi fasteners, not the exotic NAS XXXX or
>whathaveyou. B) All values for torque in Vans world are TENSION. Even
>if a bolt might be in in sheer load, treat the torque value as if the
>fastener is in tension.....So sayth the Vans Tech Rep.
Maybe someone can help me out re the above. I thought that:
1) Bolt torque is generally set to achieve tension to about 80% of yield
strength, to establish proper pre-load.
2) Elastic stop nuts are suitable for use with NAS bolts and their
associated (higher) torques (shear nuts -- the thin jobs -- would not be
suitable).
3) There are, to my knowledge, no "NAS nuts" -- use regular nuts with NAS
bolts.
Dennis Persyk N600DP 25 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
Bill,
Wilco on the Prince props. Also, you check out Catto props.
www.cattoprops.com <http://www.cattoprops.com> I talked to Craig Catto at
some length today. He makes composite props for pushers as well but having
great success in RV's. He patiently explained his process and answered all
my questions. He'll make you a two or three blade prop in about 6 to 8
weeks for under $1000. Real, nice guy. Unless something really changes my
mind, I'm going to call him back in Jan or Feb and order a prop from him.
I'm going to copy the RV-List on this reply. Hope you don't mind.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill VonDane [mailto:bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 2:15 PM
To: Van Artsdalen, Scott
Subject: RE: RV-List: Wood propellers
Hey Scott...
I'm with you! Check out Prince P-tip Composite props in
your AS catalog...
I have a friend that is running one on a pusher, and he
loves it! They
don't list RV's in my catalog, but I was planning on calling
them.
Let me know what you think...
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Van
Artsdalen,
Scott
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 1:17 PM
To: Rv-List (E-mail)
Subject: RV-List: Wood propellers
I'm having trouble finding an inexpensive (relatively) wood
prop. I talked
to Sensenich and their would prop, adapter, and crush plate
came out only
$300 less than their metal prop! Anyone have any
suggestions. I want to go
metal but just don't like that 2600 RPM limit on the metal
props (I have the
O320). I checked in the Yeller pages but the phone numbers
for Props Inc
and Pacesetter are incomplete. My email was returned when I
tried to email
Aymar-Deymuth. Catto props looks promising and they are
close by. Anyone
have any experience with them? I'm still waiting for a
quote on pricing
from them.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Another First Flight(DNA) |
In a message dated 12/18/00 5:45:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jbabell(at)mediaone.net writes:
> I keep fiddling with the squelch, volume, and mike
> position, but I can't seem to make any headway. If anyone has some
> ideas, I'd love to hear them.
Congradulations on a sucessful build and first flights. I assume you do not
have active noise cancelling headsets?? I have trouble if I forget to
activate the active switch on my Lightspeed, but with it on I have had not
problems hearing. I am deaf in a crowded noisy bar, but can here very good if
there is no background noise so the ANR is a real benefit to me.
Bernie Kerr, 6A flying, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque Values |
Dennis Persyk wrote:
> 3) There are, to my knowledge, no "NAS nuts" -- use regular nuts with NAS
> bolts.
Hi Dennis,
This caught my eye because, having just mounted the gear legs on my -8, I have
recent experience with NAS nuts. The NAS bolts for the gear legs are secured
with hardened washers and NAS679A6 all metal lock nuts. The torque specified by
Van's for this combination is the same (240 in. lbs.) as for the AN365 type nuts
formerly paired with the same NAS bolts.
--
Regards,
Ken Balch
Ashland, MA
RV-8 #81125 N118KB (reserved)
interior details
www.egroups.com/files/bostonrvbuilders
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Edmondson" <tazman(at)lakemartin.net> |
I have a 1993 RV-6 Empenage and Wing kit for sale. The empenage kit is 95%
complete. The wing kit which has the Phlogiston spar has been uncrated, but
not touched since. Both kits are before the pre-punched era. I did not order
the electric trim or any other options. Will sell both kits for $3000.00.
Vans cost today would be around $6085.00. I live in Dadeville, Alabama which
is 120 miles southwest of Atlanta, Ga. If I can answer any more questions
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
>
>>Has anyone else installed and flown the VG kit from Vetterman? I spoke with
>>Larry at some length about the VG's (what a nice and helpful guy), and they
>>sound like the best $350 you could spend on your airplane, but I'm wondering
>>if Van himself has gotten his hands on a set and tried them out.
>
>
>I am in the process of testing the Vetterman VG kit. I have gone to some
>pains to install a swivel pitot head to remove as much position error as
>possible. I saw the most significant change with flaps extended. I did
>not go beyond 10 degrees of flaps. I will re-run the entire test
>sequence using the entire flap range.
>
>Pictures and text of the test results can be found at this link:
>
><http://www.ontariorvators.org/pitot/pitot.htm>
>
>When I'm satisfied that I have good data, I will report back to the
>list.
>
>Terry Jantzi
Terry,
Thanks for sharing your progress to date. I'm looking forward to
seeing the data for full flap. I'm not sure I understand why you are
seeing more of a stall speed decrease than I expected. A 7 But you
don't have to understand something for it to be true. I'll quietly
ponder this some more. I've got to see if I can find any wind tunnel
data that might help explain this. I might have to eat some crow
after all :-)
Have fun, be careful,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuselage 98% done)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Moore <dgmoore1(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: RV-6 |
Joe,
It just so happens I am in the market for a wing kit. I was going to order
it from Van's after the first of the year. I already have a Empennage kit
of my own and mine is also the before pre-punch design.
Have you done anything to the wing kit other than uncrate it? Do you still
have the inventory sheet? And do you still have the crate?
Dave Moore
>I have a 1993 RV-6 Empenage and Wing kit for sale. The empenage kit is 95%
>complete. The wing kit which has the Phlogiston spar has been uncrated, but
>not touched since. Both kits are before the pre-punched era. I did not order
>the electric trim or any other options. Will sell both kits for $3000.00.
>Vans cost today would be around $6085.00. I live in Dadeville, Alabama which
>is 120 miles southwest of Atlanta, Ga. If I can answer any more questions
David G. Moore
mailto:dgmoore1(at)gte.net
Henderson, Nevada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "<Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com> |
(Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id
for" ;
Mon,
18 Dec 2000 14:16:07.-0500(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators |
12/18/2000 02:11:56 PM
If the vortex generators really produce a reduced stall speed, then the
angle of attack must increase at stall as a result, right? My buddies -6
with an O-360 and CS prop will thump the tailwheel down soundly on landing
while 5-10 MPH above stall. It seems that increasing the pitch angle/stall
speed would yield a benefit that would be very impractical for normal RV
operations. Based on the way his 1100lb airplane handles I think a
tailwheel touchdown at 46-50 MPH would be extremely hard on the gear and
engine mount. I was also intrigued by the prospect of vortex generators but
would sure hate to have those things out there in the breeze if they will
not benefit me in normal ops. Just wondering where the day to day benefit
would kick in. Of course it would be fun to tell guys they add 10 kts to
cruise and listen to them rationalize it.
Eric Henson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net |
| Subject: | Re: Wood propellers |
Scott,
Wood props are beautiful. I could look and admire them them all day long.
I have a Canadian Colin Walker prop. I have no idea what the price is since
it came with my -6 when I bought it two yrs ago. I like its light color
since it's made out of maple. It does not have the metal protective leading
edges. For what's it's worth, give Colin a call at 604-581-9602.. He's a
pleasant man (as I find most Canadians are) to talk to.
Anh
N985VU
Maryland
>
>
>I'm having trouble finding an inexpensive (relatively) wood prop. I talked
>to Sensenich and their would prop, adapter, and crush plate came out only
>$300 less than their metal prop! Anyone have any suggestions. I want to go
>metal but just don't like that 2600 RPM limit on the metal props (I have the
>O320). I checked in the Yeller pages but the phone numbers for Props Inc
>and Pacesetter are incomplete. My email was returned when I tried to email
>Aymar-Deymuth. Catto props looks promising and they are close by. Anyone
>have any experience with them? I'm still waiting for a quote on pricing
>from them.
>
>--
>Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
>Network Administrator
>Union Safe Deposit Bank
>209-946-5116
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Rivinut Question |
In a message dated 12/18/00 2:25:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, N8292W(at)AOL.COM
writes:
<< Does anyone know where I can get a 4-40 rivnut set? Spruce starts at 6-32
and larger. Any help would be greatly appreciated. >>
I've got one I'll loan you. You pay postage.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood propellers |
I just bought a Culver. Quickest delivery time, low price (795), and his #'s
were right on. I wanted 2350 static with 2700 full throttle, right now my
static is 2340 and level at 1000 I'm showing 2680. I'm told my numbers will
go up as the engine breaks in. I don't have his ph #, but I think he
advertises in Sport Aviation.
Carey Mills
RV4 22hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | engine mounting bolts torque values |
I now have about 22 hrs on my 4 and would like to re torque the engine bolts.
I have no ideal what I did with the values I had, if someone has them please
drop me a line.
Thanks,
Carey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming and Auto gas |
In a message dated 12/15/2000 1:20:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,
bcbraem(at)home.com writes:
<< Excuse my curiousity/ignorance, but what is this "snowblower" and where
is it on the plane/plans? >>
Hey, how do you think he gets through those whiteout conditions??? do not
archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <pbesing(at)rmi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood propellers |
I have a Paul Irlbeck prop. I hear that he is not into making props much
anymore, but might have time to cut one for you. His work is exceptional.
Several builders here in Arizona have his prop, and love it. His prices are
very competitive...I think I paid around $700 for mine. His number is (651)
565-3563.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Finish Kit (Still)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 1:17 PM
Subject: RV-List: Wood propellers
>
>
> I'm having trouble finding an inexpensive (relatively) wood prop. I
talked
> to Sensenich and their would prop, adapter, and crush plate came out only
> $300 less than their metal prop! Anyone have any suggestions. I want to
go
> metal but just don't like that 2600 RPM limit on the metal props (I have
the
> O320). I checked in the Yeller pages but the phone numbers for Props Inc
> and Pacesetter are incomplete. My email was returned when I tried to
email
> Aymar-Deymuth. Catto props looks promising and they are close by. Anyone
> have any experience with them? I'm still waiting for a quote on pricing
> from them.
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
> Network Administrator
> Union Safe Deposit Bank
> 209-946-5116
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6-A-QB Verticle Stabalizer |
[pros and cons of offsetting the v-stab from Randy Lervold snipped]
> True, many
> find this visually offensive, but I appreciate the functionality and
> adjustability of it. Local builder Randall Henderson took the same
approach.
> Now that he's flying I seem to recall that his tab is adjusted pretty much
> in trail, but at least he has the ability to fine tune it if need be, as
> will I.
Actually I didn't put the tab on until after I'd flown and knew I needed
one. It is not in trail, it is bent a little to offset the approx 1/3 -1/2
ball it's out in cruise without it.
I suppose it may seem aesthetically less than ideal to some people. But it
as Randy said, the tab gives you the flexibility to adjust if things change
your trim down the road. Besides the judges at Oshkosh apparently didn't
have a problem with it.... :-)
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank and Dorothy <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Questions |
Donald Mei wrote:
> 1) What is the appropriate size wire to make a 6 foot run from the switch to
> the strobe. Assume 10 amps.
10 amps???? You're aiming to *really* visible, aren't you!
I suggest that about 2 amps is more likely to be a realistic figure.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> |
Those look really good... I would love to put a 3 blade prop on my -8A!
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Van Artsdalen,
Scott
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 5:26 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Wood propellers
Bill,
Wilco on the Prince props. Also, you check out Catto props.
www.cattoprops.com <http://www.cattoprops.com> I talked to Craig Catto at
some length today. He makes composite props for pushers as well but having
great success in RV's. He patiently explained his process and answered all
my questions. He'll make you a two or three blade prop in about 6 to 8
weeks for under $1000. Real, nice guy. Unless something really changes my
mind, I'm going to call him back in Jan or Feb and order a prop from him.
I'm going to copy the RV-List on this reply. Hope you don't mind.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill VonDane [mailto:bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 2:15 PM
To: Van Artsdalen, Scott
Subject: RE: RV-List: Wood propellers
Hey Scott...
I'm with you! Check out Prince P-tip Composite props in
your AS catalog...
I have a friend that is running one on a pusher, and he
loves it! They
don't list RV's in my catalog, but I was planning on calling
them.
Let me know what you think...
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Van
Artsdalen,
Scott
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 1:17 PM
To: Rv-List (E-mail)
Subject: RV-List: Wood propellers
I'm having trouble finding an inexpensive (relatively) wood
prop. I talked
to Sensenich and their would prop, adapter, and crush plate
came out only
$300 less than their metal prop! Anyone have any
suggestions. I want to go
metal but just don't like that 2600 RPM limit on the metal
props (I have the
O320). I checked in the Yeller pages but the phone numbers
for Props Inc
and Pacesetter are incomplete. My email was returned when I
tried to email
Aymar-Deymuth. Catto props looks promising and they are
close by. Anyone
have any experience with them? I'm still waiting for a
quote on pricing
from them.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-8 Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque Values |
Regarding the landing gear and associated bolting on the -8, I have recently
had a problem that others might want to be aware of. I fly my plane from a
grass strip. A week or so ago, I was landing and experienced a strange
problem. Just after touching down, I began applying braking pressure (maybe
a little heavier than normal since it was nearly dark). At that time I
experienced what I'd call a fairly extreme chatter (a lot like a nose wheel
shimmy, but higher frequency). I let up on the brakes and the chatter
stopped. What I believe happened was the wheel was lightly loaded (the
plane was still just below stall speed) and it began a slip/skid type
situation. The grass strip is in fair condition, but has sections which are
moderately rough.
When I got back into the hanger, I noticed that I had some fiberglass damage
and the left gear was loose. It had about 1/4" play fore and aft. When I
pulled the gear attachment cover off to inspect the gear attachment, I found
three loose bolts. I have to assume that the chatter caused the loose
bolts. Specifically, the chatter action stretched the bolts.
I haven't taken the bolts out yet. When I do, I'll know for sure if the
bolts stretched or just what the deal is. I've bought new bolts and a new
outboard gear leg steel attachment component. I'll probably replace them
all, depending on the results of the inspection.
Has anyone else experienced this problem? If not, be aware of heavy braking
on anything other than very smooth surfaces. I called Van's and the person
I discussed the problem with had not heard of this occurring.
Bryan Jones -8 765BJ ~58-hrs
Pearland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque |
Values
Wow. I'm glad that the gear leg held on and that you and your -8 are both OK.
Please keep us posted as to the results of your inspection and any info forthcoming
from Van's.
This is enough to make me think seriously about avoiding unpaved surfaces in my
-8.
--
Regards,
Ken Balch
Ashland, MA
RV-8 #81125 N118KB (reserved)
interior details
www.egroups.com/files/bostonrvbuilders
"Jones, Bryan D." wrote:
>
> Regarding the landing gear and associated bolting on the -8, I have recently
> had a problem that others might want to be aware of. I fly my plane from a
> grass strip. A week or so ago, I was landing and experienced a strange
> problem. Just after touching down, I began applying braking pressure (maybe
> a little heavier than normal since it was nearly dark). At that time I
> experienced what I'd call a fairly extreme chatter (a lot like a nose wheel
> shimmy, but higher frequency). I let up on the brakes and the chatter
> stopped. What I believe happened was the wheel was lightly loaded (the
> plane was still just below stall speed) and it began a slip/skid type
> situation. The grass strip is in fair condition, but has sections which are
> moderately rough.
>
> When I got back into the hanger, I noticed that I had some fiberglass damage
> and the left gear was loose. It had about 1/4" play fore and aft. When I
> pulled the gear attachment cover off to inspect the gear attachment, I found
> three loose bolts. I have to assume that the chatter caused the loose
> bolts. Specifically, the chatter action stretched the bolts.
>
> I haven't taken the bolts out yet. When I do, I'll know for sure if the
> bolts stretched or just what the deal is. I've bought new bolts and a new
> outboard gear leg steel attachment component. I'll probably replace them
> all, depending on the results of the inspection.
>
> Has anyone else experienced this problem? If not, be aware of heavy braking
> on anything other than very smooth surfaces. I called Van's and the person
> I discussed the problem with had not heard of this occurring.
>
> Bryan Jones -8 765BJ ~58-hrs
> Pearland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine mounting bolts torque values |
12/19/2000 10:27:13
One problem you will run into when doing this re-torque is the break-loose
torque is more(higher value) and will give you a misleading value of your
assumed clamping force (torque). The other side if the double edged sword
is...you have to releive( i.e. loosen ) the torque on a fastener in order
to retighten and torque it properly. This un-tightning or loosing of the
bolts may lead to localized warping of the casting you are trying to
torque. Remember the tightning sequence charts...these were established to
lessen the warpage.
Rvmils(at)AOL.COM
Sent by: To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
owner-rv-list-server@mat cc:
ronics.com Subject: RV-List: engine
mounting bolts torque values
12/18/2000 11:38 PM
Please respond to
rv-list
I now have about 22 hrs on my 4 and would like to re torque the engine
bolts.
I have no ideal what I did with the values I had, if someone has them
please
drop me a line.
Thanks,
Carey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque Values |
>
><bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
>
>Regarding the landing gear and associated bolting on the -8, I have
>recently
>had a problem that others might want to be aware of. I fly my plane from a
>grass strip. A week or so ago, I was landing and experienced a strange
>problem. Just after touching down, I began applying braking pressure
>(maybe
>a little heavier than normal since it was nearly dark). At that time I
>experienced what I'd call a fairly extreme chatter (a lot like a nose wheel
>shimmy, but higher frequency). I let up on the brakes and the chatter
>stopped. What I believe happened was the wheel was lightly loaded (the
>plane was still just below stall speed) and it began a slip/skid type
>situation. The grass strip is in fair condition, but has sections which
>are
>moderately rough.
>
>When I got back into the hanger, I noticed that I had some fiberglass
>damage
>and the left gear was loose. It had about 1/4" play fore and aft. When I
>pulled the gear attachment cover off to inspect the gear attachment, I
>found
>three loose bolts. I have to assume that the chatter caused the loose
>bolts. Specifically, the chatter action stretched the bolts.
>
>I haven't taken the bolts out yet. When I do, I'll know for sure if the
>bolts stretched or just what the deal is. I've bought new bolts and a new
>outboard gear leg steel attachment component. I'll probably replace them
>all, depending on the results of the inspection.
>
>Has anyone else experienced this problem? If not, be aware of heavy
>braking
>on anything other than very smooth surfaces. I called Van's and the person
>I discussed the problem with had not heard of this occurring.
>
>Bryan Jones -8 765BJ ~58-hrs
>Pearland, Texas
Bryan,
I followed Van's specs for torqueing the bolts and to leave a slight gap
between the U blocks and the wear plates. This led to some loose bolts! I
never had the vibration issue, but it took several turns on the nuts to
tighten up the gear....and man what a pain that was. Getting a socket on
those nuts inside the gear boxes has got to be the worst part to access in
the entire airplane. I noticed this looseness at about 50 hours...right
when the manual says to retorque them. So, I personally would just tighten
the bolts SNUGLY at initial installation and ignore the gap. Crank 'em down
and move on. I still have a slight squeeking noise coming from the left
gear box area when the plane is rocked laterally. I cannot for the life of
me figure out where this is coming from. It did not improve after tightening
the nuts. I just replaced the tires and brake pads last month. While the
plane was jacked up on stands, I checked the gear legs. Really yanked on
them fore and aft. They are rock solid. So far, so good.
Best of luck to ya.
Brian Denk
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
I took a look at one of his props late last night on a friend's airplane.
Wow! Really nice work! I'm going to call him up in Jan and order a
two-blade model. Call me crazy but I've never really liked 3-bladed props.
I like the looks of the plain old 2 blade props. Or maybe it's from
hand-propping my Champ hundreds of times. If my starter goes south, I can
hand prop my 4 if it has a two blade prop. Or if I don't want my hands
anymore I guess I could try to prop a three blade prop!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill VonDane [mailto:bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 6:32 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV-List: Wood propellers
Those look really good... I would love to put a 3 blade
prop on my -8A!
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Van
Artsdalen,
Scott
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 5:26 PM
To: Bill VonDane
Subject: RE: RV-List: Wood propellers
Bill,
Wilco on the Prince props. Also, you check out Catto props.
www.cattoprops.com <http://www.cattoprops.com> I talked to
Craig Catto at
some length today. He makes composite props for pushers as
well but having
great success in RV's. He patiently explained his process
and answered all
my questions. He'll make you a two or three blade prop in
about 6 to 8
weeks for under $1000. Real, nice guy. Unless something
really changes my
mind, I'm going to call him back in Jan or Feb and order a
prop from him.
I'm going to copy the RV-List on this reply. Hope you don't
mind.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill VonDane
[mailto:bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 2:15
PM
To: Van Artsdalen, Scott
Subject: RE: RV-List: Wood propellers
Hey Scott...
I'm with you! Check out Prince P-tip
Composite props in
your AS catalog...
I have a friend that is running one on a
pusher, and he
loves it! They
don't list RV's in my catalog, but I was
planning on calling
them.
Let me know what you think...
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Van
Artsdalen,
Scott
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 1:17 PM
To: Rv-List (E-mail)
Subject: RV-List: Wood propellers
Artsdalen, Scott"
I'm having trouble finding an inexpensive
(relatively) wood
prop. I talked
to Sensenich and their would prop, adapter,
and crush plate
came out only
$300 less than their metal prop! Anyone
have any
suggestions. I want to go
metal but just don't like that 2600 RPM
limit on the metal
props (I have the
O320). I checked in the Yeller pages but
the phone numbers
for Props Inc
and Pacesetter are incomplete. My email was
returned when I
tried to email
Aymar-Deymuth. Catto props looks promising
and they are
close by. Anyone
have any experience with them? I'm still
waiting for a
quote on pricing
from them.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "edperry64" <edperry64(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque Values |
In a discussion with Robby Grove of "Grove Aluminum Landing Gear" fame he
said that the weakest parts of the Van's gear design are the mounting bolts.
He expects them to strip loose after a certain number of hard landings. It
seems that this could be aggravated by off field landings too. It's too bad
that we don't have a factory airplane to compare with. I will be interested
to hear the status of Bryan's bolts.
Ed Perry
RV8-QB 180hp/CS 1/2 pitot heat
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net>
Date: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque
Values
>
>Wow. I'm glad that the gear leg held on and that you and your -8 are both
OK.
>Please keep us posted as to the results of your inspection and any info
forthcoming
>from Van's.
>
>This is enough to make me think seriously about avoiding unpaved surfaces
in my -8.
>
>--
>Regards,
>Ken Balch
>Ashland, MA
>RV-8 #81125 N118KB (reserved)
>interior details
>www.egroups.com/files/bostonrvbuilders
>
>
>"Jones, Bryan D." wrote:
>
<bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
>>
>> Regarding the landing gear and associated bolting on the -8, I have
recently
>> had a problem that others might want to be aware of. I fly my plane from
a
>> grass strip. A week or so ago, I was landing and experienced a strange
>> problem. Just after touching down, I began applying braking pressure
(maybe
>> a little heavier than normal since it was nearly dark). At that time I
>> experienced what I'd call a fairly extreme chatter (a lot like a nose
wheel
>> shimmy, but higher frequency). I let up on the brakes and the chatter
>> stopped. What I believe happened was the wheel was lightly loaded (the
>> plane was still just below stall speed) and it began a slip/skid type
>> situation. The grass strip is in fair condition, but has sections which
are
>> moderately rough.
>>
>> When I got back into the hanger, I noticed that I had some fiberglass
damage
>> and the left gear was loose. It had about 1/4" play fore and aft. When
I
>> pulled the gear attachment cover off to inspect the gear attachment, I
found
>> three loose bolts. I have to assume that the chatter caused the loose
>> bolts. Specifically, the chatter action stretched the bolts.
>>
>> I haven't taken the bolts out yet. When I do, I'll know for sure if the
>> bolts stretched or just what the deal is. I've bought new bolts and a
new
>> outboard gear leg steel attachment component. I'll probably replace them
>> all, depending on the results of the inspection.
>>
>> Has anyone else experienced this problem? If not, be aware of heavy
braking
>> on anything other than very smooth surfaces. I called Van's and the
person
>> I discussed the problem with had not heard of this occurring.
>>
>> Bryan Jones -8 765BJ ~58-hrs
>> Pearland, Texas
>
>
Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas E. Bostard" <dougacft(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/17/00 |
CHECKLIST: I have 2 separate checklists I developed which are
comprehensive for my 6A. One for prestart, other side for preflight,
then one for prelanding. They are laminated and computer generated with
some notations in red. Also made up a cheatsheet for the VM 1000 which
is somewhat complicated in various modes. It helps a little. I could
email you what I have and you could modify/regenerate to suit, then
print, then lamiunate. Mine are about 3.5" X 5.0" Doug B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
| Subject: | VS offset to eliminate rudder trim tab |
The "BEST"
aeronautical solution is more right thrust in the engine. I've never heard
of a design that offsets the vertical stab.
My buddie's Bellanca has at least an inch or more offset. Very noticable on
that (300 HP modified) ship. Many other planes do also. Just look when
you're at Oshkosh, you'll see plenty.
I built a 4 previously, and helped on many others. My 4 needed a 1/4" left
offset of the VS to eliminate the tab. The offset worked perfectly.
My HRII (under construction) has the tab on the HS where the VS attaches
enlarged by 3/8 inch on the left side specifically so I can offset my VS
about a 1/4" to the left.
I'd like to hear a report from anyone who has shimmed the engine to
accomplish the same thing. How did it work and how much shim is required?
Did you need to adjust the cowl? Adjusting the cowl on a finished RV
certainly isn't very appealing.
Vince in Indiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque Values |
I seriously doubt that you stretched the bolts. The chatter occurred
because of looseness. Either the bolts were over-torqued on installation or
some one forgot to torque them.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jones, Bryan D. <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 8:27 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque
Values
<bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
>
> Regarding the landing gear and associated bolting on the -8, I have
recently
> had a problem that others might want to be aware of. I fly my plane from
a
> grass strip. A week or so ago, I was landing and experienced a strange
> problem. Just after touching down, I began applying braking pressure
(maybe
> a little heavier than normal since it was nearly dark). At that time I
> experienced what I'd call a fairly extreme chatter (a lot like a nose
wheel
> shimmy, but higher frequency). I let up on the brakes and the chatter
> stopped. What I believe happened was the wheel was lightly loaded (the
> plane was still just below stall speed) and it began a slip/skid type
> situation. The grass strip is in fair condition, but has sections which
are
> moderately rough.
>
> When I got back into the hanger, I noticed that I had some fiberglass
damage
> and the left gear was loose. It had about 1/4" play fore and aft. When I
> pulled the gear attachment cover off to inspect the gear attachment, I
found
> three loose bolts. I have to assume that the chatter caused the loose
> bolts. Specifically, the chatter action stretched the bolts.
>
> I haven't taken the bolts out yet. When I do, I'll know for sure if the
> bolts stretched or just what the deal is. I've bought new bolts and a new
> outboard gear leg steel attachment component. I'll probably replace them
> all, depending on the results of the inspection.
>
> Has anyone else experienced this problem? If not, be aware of heavy
braking
> on anything other than very smooth surfaces. I called Van's and the
person
> I discussed the problem with had not heard of this occurring.
>
> Bryan Jones -8 765BJ ~58-hrs
> Pearland, Texas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Ldg Gear |
How does the Grove gear mount to the -8? Presumably with bolts...? How are his
mounting bolts different from Van's?
Ken
edperry64 wrote:
>
> In a discussion with Robby Grove of "Grove Aluminum Landing Gear" fame he
> said that the weakest parts of the Van's gear design are the mounting bolts.
> He expects them to strip loose after a certain number of hard landings. It
> seems that this could be aggravated by off field landings too. It's too bad
> that we don't have a factory airplane to compare with. I will be interested
> to hear the status of Bryan's bolts.
> Ed Perry
> RV8-QB 180hp/CS 1/2 pitot heat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque Values |
12/19/2000 11:38:39
There are indeed special nuts that have a higher torque value when used
with the NAS-xxxx bolts (and other hi $$ bolts). My point I wanted to
convey is that even when using these special NAS close tolerance bolts, we
are instructed to use the old reliable 365 nuts. In such a configuration we
use the torque value of the regular old aircraft 365 nut........ as suttle
point but if you were to go the the torque tables and read down the list
for NAS bolts, one might forget that the 365 nuts are the limiting factor
here (limiting isn't the right word here but close enough)
"Dennis Persyk"
t> cc:
Sent by: Subject: Re: RV-List: Vans
Use of Torque Tables / Torque
owner-rv-list-server@mat Values
ronics.com
12/18/2000 07:11 PM
Please respond to
rv-list
-----Original Message-----
From: pcondon(at)csc.com <pcondon(at)csc.com>
Date: Monday, December 18, 2000 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque Values
>
>I recently called Vans to inquire about Torque values for the wing bolts.
I
>did my homework and consulted the FAA text on Acceptable Repair Methods
>Book & a 30 page text on Torque I found on the internet........ So I
>thought I was ready to go. I called Vans to double check & here is what I
>learned: A) Even though we use the expensive NAS 1306 & 1304 bolts for
the
>wing spar (along with the #10 bolts) we are instructed to use the
STANDARD
>elastic stop NUTS in the plans........ Since we cinch up the NUTS with the
>torque wrench...... the Tech rep at Vans said we use the STANDARD torque
>values for standard aircraft ansi fasteners, not the exotic NAS XXXX or
>whathaveyou. B) All values for torque in Vans world are TENSION. Even
>if a bolt might be in in sheer load, treat the torque value as if the
>fastener is in tension.....So sayth the Vans Tech Rep.
Maybe someone can help me out re the above. I thought that:
1) Bolt torque is generally set to achieve tension to about 80% of yield
strength, to establish proper pre-load.
2) Elastic stop nuts are suitable for use with NAS bolts and their
associated (higher) torques (shear nuts -- the thin jobs -- would not be
suitable).
3) There are, to my knowledge, no "NAS nuts" -- use regular nuts with NAS
bolts.
Dennis Persyk N600DP 25 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
12/19/2000 11:47:32
If you could e-mail the source data to one of the VANS wings groups...they
might-(with a quick prior arrangement) host the data so other of us might
download the checklists.......
"Douglas E. Bostard"
To: rv6-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: cc:
owner-rv-list-server@mat Subject: RV-List: Re: RV6-List
Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/17/00
ronics.com
12/19/2000 09:30 AM
Please respond to
rv-list
CHECKLIST: I have 2 separate checklists I developed which are
comprehensive for my 6A. One for prestart, other side for preflight,
then one for prelanding. They are laminated and computer generated with
some notations in red. Also made up a cheatsheet for the VM 1000 which
is somewhat complicated in various modes. It helps a little. I could
email you what I have and you could modify/regenerate to suit, then
print, then lamiunate. Mine are about 3.5" X 5.0" Doug B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque Values |
Does the Grove gear do things differently to try to address this?
Larry, RV-8 gearboxes
--- edperry64 wrote:
>
> In a discussion with Robby Grove of "Grove Aluminum Landing Gear" fame he
> said that the weakest parts of the Van's gear design are the mounting bolts.
> He expects them to strip loose after a certain number of hard landings. It
> seems that this could be aggravated by off field landings too. It's too bad
> that we don't have a factory airplane to compare with. I will be interested
> to hear the status of Bryan's bolts.
> Ed Perry
> RV8-QB 180hp/CS 1/2 pitot heat
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 7:37 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque
> Values
>
>
> >
> >Wow. I'm glad that the gear leg held on and that you and your -8 are both
> OK.
> >Please keep us posted as to the results of your inspection and any info
> forthcoming
> >from Van's.
> >
> >This is enough to make me think seriously about avoiding unpaved surfaces
> in my -8.
> >
> >--
> >Regards,
> >Ken Balch
> >Ashland, MA
> >RV-8 #81125 N118KB (reserved)
> >interior details
> >www.egroups.com/files/bostonrvbuilders
> >
> >
> >"Jones, Bryan D." wrote:
> >
> <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
> >>
> >> Regarding the landing gear and associated bolting on the -8, I have
> recently
> >> had a problem that others might want to be aware of. I fly my plane from
> a
> >> grass strip. A week or so ago, I was landing and experienced a strange
> >> problem. Just after touching down, I began applying braking pressure
> (maybe
> >> a little heavier than normal since it was nearly dark). At that time I
> >> experienced what I'd call a fairly extreme chatter (a lot like a nose
> wheel
> >> shimmy, but higher frequency). I let up on the brakes and the chatter
> >> stopped. What I believe happened was the wheel was lightly loaded (the
> >> plane was still just below stall speed) and it began a slip/skid type
> >> situation. The grass strip is in fair condition, but has sections which
> are
> >> moderately rough.
> >>
> >> When I got back into the hanger, I noticed that I had some fiberglass
> damage
> >> and the left gear was loose. It had about 1/4" play fore and aft. When
> I
> >> pulled the gear attachment cover off to inspect the gear attachment, I
> found
> >> three loose bolts. I have to assume that the chatter caused the loose
> >> bolts. Specifically, the chatter action stretched the bolts.
> >>
> >> I haven't taken the bolts out yet. When I do, I'll know for sure if the
> >> bolts stretched or just what the deal is. I've bought new bolts and a
> new
> >> outboard gear leg steel attachment component. I'll probably replace them
> >> all, depending on the results of the inspection.
> >>
> >> Has anyone else experienced this problem? If not, be aware of heavy
> braking
> >> on anything other than very smooth surfaces. I called Van's and the
> person
> >> I discussed the problem with had not heard of this occurring.
> >>
> >> Bryan Jones -8 765BJ ~58-hrs
> >> Pearland, Texas
> >
> >
>
>
> Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another First Flight |
Jack,
CONGRATULATIONS & WELL DONE !!!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV08A (Painting next week)
Niantic, CT
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Acceptable repairs |
Are,
For what you did, t5hat repair looks fine. Carry on and don't worry.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A N809RS
12.9 hours
>From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Acceptable repairs
>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 21:45:24 -0500
>
>
>I made a goof on one of my wing ribs and made a quick repair. When I was
>finished and stood back to admire it, I thought that I could maybe have
>made
>the attachment on the rib larger with room for more rivets. I couldn't find
>this particular answer in AC43.
>
>Can anyone tell me if they think this repair is acceptable? I rather redo
>it
>now (before skinning) if it could be better or not pass inspection.
>
>Please click on link for picture.
>
>http://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/hangar/rib1.jpg
>
>Thanks,
>Are
>RV-8 Wings
>
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Kuntzelman Strobes |
Dear Listers,
I am writing to tell of an excellent customer service experience that I just
had. I recently purchased a strobe head from Kuntzelman Electronics
(kestrobes.com) Last night I test ran the strobe and power supply. After
running the strobe for about 5 minutes I shut the system off. When I
inspected the head of the Kuntzelman streamlined head I noticed that one
side of the lexan enclosure was discoloring. Upon closer inspection, I
noticed that one twist of the strobe tube was too close to the lexan and was
melting it.
I called Kuntzelman and I spoke with a gentleman who immediately pulled my
address up on the computer after I gave him my name and said "we'll just
ship you out another one" No questions, no "shipping cost is my problem" or
"we have to wait until we get the old one back", etc. He just offered to
send me another and asked that I send the old one back when I get a chance.
This kind of support and service is rare in this world, I urge you all to
support this company if they provide a product that suits your needs.
Best regards,
Don Mei
RV-4 N92CT
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque Values |
-----Original Message-----
From: Jones, Bryan D. <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 8:35 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque
Values
<bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
>
When I
>pulled the gear attachment cover off to inspect the gear attachment, I
found
>three loose bolts. I have to assume that the chatter caused the loose
>bolts. Specifically, the chatter action stretched the bolts.
>
>I haven't taken the bolts out yet. When I do, I'll know for sure if the
>bolts stretched or just what the deal is. I've bought new bolts and a new
>outboard gear leg steel attachment component. I'll probably replace them
>all, depending on the results of the inspection
>>Bryan Jones -8 765BJ ~58-hrs
>Pearland, Texas
>
How will you determine if the bolts stretched? AN bolts have a generous
length tolerance, so unless you mic'ed them before installation, it seems
the uncertainty in length would far exceed the stretch. My guess is that
the bolts were loose and that's why it chattered. Interesting problem. Let
us know how it is resolved.
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP still only 25 hours (snow)
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque Values |
-----Original Message-----
From: pcondon(at)csc.com <pcondon(at)csc.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque Values
>
>There are indeed special nuts that have a higher torque value when used
>with the NAS-xxxx bolts (and other hi $$ bolts). My point I wanted to
>convey is that even when using these special NAS close tolerance bolts, we
>are instructed to use the old reliable 365 nuts. In such a configuration we
>use the torque value of the regular old aircraft 365 nut........ as suttle
>point but if you were to go the the torque tables and read down the list
>for NAS bolts, one might forget that the 365 nuts are the limiting factor
>here (limiting isn't the right word here but close enough)
>
>
I sure don't get the sense that you need special nuts for NAS bolts. My
AC43.13-1A Change 3, page 118, lists Van's supplied NAS bolts in the middle
"steel tension" column. The higher torque values are listed for AN365 nuts
along with several other AN, MS and NAS nuts. The message and intent of
AC43.13 seems very clear: AN365 nuts are not a limiting factor in
establishing bolt torque for NAS bolts. There are special NAS nuts but they
are not required to establish proper torque.
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP 25 hours
Hampshire, IL C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin" <6430(at)axion.net> |
| Subject: | Poor Man's Encoder |
Ever wanted to know exactly what your transponder was showing to controllers
?
Where I live, one of the controllers is a pretty cranky,
condescending old bastard who thinks he owns the airspace 'cause he helped
draft the pattern rules here.
It is a training environment with lots of neophytes who are a bit nervous
anyway, but get rattled when they are dumped on by "Ol Crank" for being less
proficient than an ATP pilot.
I have been 2 miles farther back than my estimate when calling, and been
reamed and also told, we show you at 1700 if I say I was at 1500....
Anyway, the point of this soliloquy, is that several months ago, on
this list, there was a mention of a poor man's encoder readout display in
kit form or finished form for only about $150...even less for the
do-it-yourself.
I thought it was a great feature to have and know that the readout I
would see was what the transponder was saying to old skinflint.
Long story short, I ordered the kit from the fellow who happens to be
an electronic whiz, commercial pilot, and RV4 owner.
I was very happy with the kit, had a lot of fun constructing something
electronic, leading edge, and novel.
Bottom line was I had made a very tiny "solder bridge"......(gimme some
slack..I'm old, and the eyes ain't what they were).....
I sent the unit back for testing, and he fixed my boo-boo, nothing to do
with the kit or complexity or lack thereof, and gave it back to me ..no
charge, working like a champ.
I forgot to send postage and he even forgave that....Pretty exemplary
service I would say !!
So if you want a great feature not found on most factory planes and less on
experimentals, which will be a boon to your information at hand while in the
airspace,
key in at....http://www.am2.com or call Mitch Robbins at
952-894-4716 Minnesota for info on this module which would be a very nice
stocking stuffer to yourself from your beloved or however you want to
justify a nice goody for yourself.
I am in no way related or connected to Mr. Robbins or his
enterprise....never met him, but he has created a very useful, low-cost
encoder for the little guy and the product and service are second to none.
Check it out.
Austin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Circuit Breaker Quesiton |
Kurt,
I can help with a few of your questions if someone hasen't already.
1. The RMI MocroEncoder uses a 1 amp CB. I tied mine in on the same CB
with the transponder and it has worked great.
2> For your alternator you can use a CB or Fuse. For the voltage regulator
it will depend on which regulator you get.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A N809RS
>From: KAKlewin(at)AOL.COM
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Circuit Breaker Quesiton
>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 18:33:18 EST
>
>
>For those of you using circuit breakers and not fuses...Im doing some panel
>planning and have a few questions as to the type (amp) of breaker for a few
>applications...
> 1. Amp rating for breaker for RMI Encoder and Monitor
>
> 2. Amp rating for breaker for the electric primer in the ACS book...
>
> 3. If I go with a B&C alternator (40a or 60a...havent decided
>yet)...what
>breakers are required...I would guess I need a 1amp and 5 amp for the
>regulator...can I use a breaker for the output or is a fuse a better option
>here...???
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "edperry64" <edperry64(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Ldg Gear |
I am not aware of anything Grove does that is different than Van but when we
were talking about his aluminum gear he was stressing to me that the bolts
would fail before the landing gear.
Ed Perry
180/CS Aluminum gear ordered
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net>
Date: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Ldg Gear
>
>How does the Grove gear mount to the -8? Presumably with bolts...? How
are his
>mounting bolts different from Van's?
>
>Ken
>
>edperry64 wrote:
>
>>
>> In a discussion with Robby Grove of "Grove Aluminum Landing Gear" fame he
>> said that the weakest parts of the Van's gear design are the mounting
bolts.
>> He expects them to strip loose after a certain number of hard landings.
It
>> seems that this could be aggravated by off field landings too. It's too
bad
>> that we don't have a factory airplane to compare with. I will be
interested
>> to hear the status of Bryan's bolts.
>> Ed Perry
>> RV8-QB 180hp/CS 1/2 pitot heat
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Circuit Breaker Quesiton |
> For those of you using circuit breakers and not fuses...Im doing some panel
> >planning and have a few questions as to the type (amp) of breaker for a few
> >applications...
> > 1. Amp rating for breaker for RMI Encoder and Monitor
> >
> > 2. Amp rating for breaker for the electric primer in the ACS book...
>
I won't presume to speak for Electric Bob, but I believe the question you
need to be asking is: what size wire will you run to these devices? That
answer alone will tell you what current rating the fuse or CB must have.
This assumes you are not using wire that is too small to carry the load. For
these devices, it is hard to find wire that is too light for their current
draw.
Remember, the fuse or CB is to keep the smoke inside the wire. It will
not/can not protect your electronics from self-destructing.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A O-320/Sensenich FP
Hop-Along Air Field, 12VA
Clifton Forge, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib to Spar - Design flaw? |
Are,
According to what I see your "repairs" should be fine. This type of repair
is found in AC43.13 but I don't have my copy handy to give you a page
number. Irregardless, I think you will be fine. Carry on and build.
MIke Robertson
RV-8A N809RS
>From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Rib to Spar - Design flaw?
>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 14:31:37 -0500
>
>
>Am I missing something? It seems to weird that only I have this problem.
>
>Harry Crosby brought up a good point though: Van's should be able to tell
>me
>if it's a 'go' or not with my earlier rib fix. I have made the following
>web
>page to prove that all these ribs must be repaired in order to pass
>inspection (at least here in Canada).
>
>Here's the link that I will send Van's: (This time it's much more
>illustrative). Please have a look if you're building an RV-8.
>
>http://www.bconnex.net/~abarstad/RibToSpar.html
>
>Are
>RV-8 Wings
>
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rvpilot" <rvpilot(at)coollink.net> |
Listers,
My ISP is calling it quits. Can anyone recommend a reliable, reasonable one
(reasonable being in the $9.95/Mo. or less range)
Thanks, Bill RV-8 N48WD Tiger-Kat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Poor Man's Encoder |
The encoder read-out device that is being mentioned is nice, but it does NOT
necessarily show what you are transmitting...it may or it may not. The
connections that the maker calls for are those that are the output of your
encoder...not the output of the transponder. If the transponder is having
problems it may or may not be transmitting the output from the encoder
correctly or at all.
The device is interesting and the price is good, but it does NOT tell you
positively what you are sending. There are devices on the market that pick
up your transponder's transmitted radio frequency emissions, and translate
that information to altitude for a direct readout. That type of system WILL
tell you exactly what you are really sending.
FWIW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Poor Man's Encoder |
The odds are that what this device show is what is being sent as either the
transponder sends what the encoder is showing or it doesn't transmit. If it
drops a single bit, the receiver will know that there is a missing bit and
will discard the info.
----- Original Message -----
From: John <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 5:58 PM
Subject: RV-List: Poor Man's Encoder
>
> The encoder read-out device that is being mentioned is nice, but it does
NOT
> necessarily show what you are transmitting...it may or it may not. The
> connections that the maker calls for are those that are the output of your
> encoder...not the output of the transponder. If the transponder is having
> problems it may or may not be transmitting the output from the encoder
> correctly or at all.
>
> The device is interesting and the price is good, but it does NOT tell you
> positively what you are sending. There are devices on the market that pick
> up your transponder's transmitted radio frequency emissions, and
translate
> that information to altitude for a direct readout. That type of system
WILL
> tell you exactly what you are really sending.
>
> FWIW
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pilots Operating Handbook |
I'm in the process of flying off my 40hrs and trying to put together a POH.
Does anyone know where I can find one on the web to copy for a guide?
Thanks,
Carey Mills
RV4, 24hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
I am installing the battery box and was wondering if anyone could explain to
me why the bottom is attached to the floor stiffeners the way it is. Why is
the 7" x 15/16" 6104 piece used and why is only one bolt going through the
battery box bottom and the other is just bolted to the floor stiffener. Why
can't I just put two nutplates per side on the battery box bottom and do
without the extra 7" piece? Van must have had a reason for designing it
this way but it sure baffles me!!!!
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6-A Battery Box |
Ross,
Those pieces spread the load over a greater length on the floor
reinforcement angles. That battery is mighty heavy at 9 g ultimate.
Actually, I seem to remember the battery box is designed to even greater g
loading than that.
Rick Caldwell
-6 O-320 CS
Melbourne, FL
>From: "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: 6-A Battery Box
>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:00:39 -0800
>
>
>I am installing the battery box and was wondering if anyone could explain
>to
>me why the bottom is attached to the floor stiffeners the way it is. Why
>is
>the 7" x 15/16" 6104 piece used and why is only one bolt going through the
>battery box bottom and the other is just bolted to the floor stiffener.
>Why
>can't I just put two nutplates per side on the battery box bottom and do
>without the extra 7" piece? Van must have had a reason for designing it
>this way but it sure baffles me!!!!
>
>Ross
>
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald R. Eaves" <doneaves(at)bigfoot.com> |
For those hoping "Lectric Bob: will pipe up and give one of his famous in
depth answers to our "lectric" questions you need to know he now resides on
a new list and can be contract @
owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com.
I was having withdrawal symptoms not seeing and reading his well-scripted
answers to our questions so I signed up for the aeroelectric-list and now I
feel much better...
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | fly with the vinyl on? |
Listers,
Just wondering out loud here as I contemplate ripping off another large
sheet of internal skin vinyl. Why? Why take it off other than the strips
needed for deburring/dimpling? If I am not going to prime the inside of the
sheeting then what is the harm other than weight? Won't it continue to
provide corrosion protection?
Will the stuff degrade and flake off over time? It's plastic and never sees
direct UV rays. Seems unlikely to me.
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
Ross,
Two things come to mind.
First is that the designer (I think it was Andy Hanna) is trying to spread the
load of the battery along more of the longerons than just in the area under the
box. The added material is also be adding structural reinforcement to the longeron
in that highly loaded (during high g's) area.
Second possibility is that it's a left over part from the floor mounted rudder
pedals and doesn't have anything to do with spreading out the load of the battery.
I seem to remember something like that, but then again, I have the overhead
rudder pedals.
Remember, the opinions you get from the list are just that.
Without asking Van's engineering staff, one will never know.
Laird (fitting new windshield)
SoCal
I am installing the battery box and was wondering if anyone could explain to
me why the bottom is attached to the floor stiffeners the way it is. Why is
the 7" x 15/16" 6104 piece used and why is only one bolt going through the
battery box bottom and the other is just bolted to the floor stiffener. Why
can't I just put two nutplates per side on the battery box bottom and do
without the extra 7" piece? Van must have had a reason for designing it
this way but it sure baffles me!!!!
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MTMCGOWAN(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: fly with the vinyl on? |
I WONDERED THE SAME THING AS I TUGGED ON ALL THOSE BIG PIECES OF PLASTIC.
WHATS THE ANSWER ? MIKE [ RV-4 WITH 195HP O320 JUST
HUNG]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6-A Battery Box |
> I am installing the battery box and was wondering if anyone could explain
to
> me why the bottom is attached to the floor stiffeners the way it is. Why
is
> the 7" x 15/16" 6104 piece used and why is only one bolt going through the
> battery box bottom and the other is just bolted to the floor stiffener.
Some of the stuff is leftover from the old floor mount rudder pedals. Mount
'er up the way you see fit.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | fly with the vinyl on? |
195 HP O320?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
MTMCGOWAN(at)AOL.COM
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: fly with the vinyl on?
I WONDERED THE SAME THING AS I TUGGED ON ALL THOSE BIG PIECES OF PLASTIC.
WHATS THE ANSWER ? MIKE [ RV-4 WITH 195HP O320 JUST
HUNG]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MTMCGOWAN(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: fly with the vinyl on? |
BUILT BY LY-CON IN VISALIA, CAL. IT'S A BEAUTY
MIKE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank and Dorothy <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: fly with the vinyl on? |
lucky macy wrote:
> Just wondering out loud here as I contemplate ripping off another large
> sheet of internal skin vinyl. Why? Why take it off other than the strips
> needed for deburring/dimpling? If I am not going to prime the inside of the
> sheeting then what is the harm other than weight? Won't it continue to
> provide corrosion protection?
>
> Will the stuff degrade and flake off over time? It's plastic and never sees
> direct UV rays. Seems unlikely to me.
I guess it's heavier than paint. How good is the glue that holds the
plastic to the aluminium? Will it let go in a few hundred hours? If it
lets go, what will the sheet of plastic do? Wrap round/jam up any
controls?
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators |
As the box lid to the game says: Such mighty contests from trivia arise-or
something to that effect.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Nellis <mnellis(at)emailusa.net>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 4:54 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators
>
> Yes, of course, you are correct regarding indicated airspeed at altitude.
I
> hit "send" a little to quick and realized that point afterward.
>
> Thanks for the correction.
>
> Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res)
> Plainfield, IL
> Building Tanks
> http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
>
>
> >
> > Well, yes and no. You are correct that it will stall at a higher
indicated
> > airspeed in a steep turn, but there will be no difference in the
indicated
> > stalling speed
> > caused by altitude-that's why we fly high-the airplane accelerates until
> the
> > drag equals the thrust-the same power setting must generate the same
> > indicated airspeed at all altitudes-only the true airspeed goes up-----
> > Original Message -----
> > From: Mike Nellis <mnellis(at)emailusa.net>
> > To:
> > Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 9:26 PM
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Incorrect, the wing works on Angle of Attack not airspeed.
> > >
> > > For example, load the plane up to gross and it might stall at
> say.....55
> > > mph.
> > > Take that same plane loaded to gross up to 8000' and do some steep
turns
> > and
> > > I'll guarantee that it will stall at a lot higher speed than 55 mph.
> > >
> > > It's all about Angle of Attack not IAS. Typical stall warning devices
> are
> > > angle of attack sensors not airspeed sensors.
> > >
> > > Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res)
> > > Plainfield, IL
> > > Building Tanks
> > > http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > You're right. Indicated airspeed is all the wing works on- TAS and
GS
> > are
> > > > for navigating. The only variable could come from unstable air -as
in
> > > slight
> > > > updrafts or downdrafts occuring during the two test flights.
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Builder's Bookstore <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 2:37 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I put vortex generators on my RV6A....what is REALLY puzzling me
> is
> > > how
> > > > to
> > > > > > reasonably determine the stall speed.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have my VG set, but haven't installed them yet. When I do, I'm
> going
> > > to
> > > > look
> > > > > at both indicated airspeed and groundspeed as measured on the GPS.
> > > Between
> > > > the
> > > > > two, I should get a reasonable idea of what the VGs are doing.
> > However,
> > > > the GPS
> > > > > comparison figure is just for academic interest and has no real
> value.
> > > > >
> > > > > The bottom line is that I don't really care what my calibrated or
> true
> > > > stall
> > > > > speeds are. From the operational point of view of the pilot, all
> that
> > > > really
> > > > > matters is Indicated. (Yes, I'm wearing my asbestos suit) I want
to
> > know
> > > > how
> > > > > "my" plane is going to respond in a short or power off landing
> > > > configuration;
> > > > > these being the times that the benefits of VGs will most come into
> > play.
> > > > > Indicated will always give that information in an easy to use and
> > > > dependable
> > > > > manner. Any other number is fairy irrelevant to the task at hand
at
> > that
> > > > moment.
> > > > >
> > > > > Andy
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6-A Battery Box |
Thank you all so much for your responses. Since I am building an all
electric two alternator system, I will be using a small, 12 amp battery that
will be strapped to the firewall and floor portions of the battery box. It
will not be enclosed. It will only extend 4" away from the firewall. I
will therefore contemplate leaving the extensions out after I have checked
with Vans to make sure they are not needed to stiffen the floor.
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "elizabeth lincoln" <curby1(at)shianet.org> |
Does anyone have any experience with the ICS Plus combination
comm/vor/glidscope/intercom all in one?sure would save space and would
be simple. Only costs $1360.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fly with the vinyl on? |
I would under no circumstance fly with the vinyl left on. The accident
report on Steve Whitman indicated that it was caused by wing fabric in front
of one of the ailerons becoming unattached, disrupting the airflow and
inducing flutter in the aileron which quickly destroyed the wing and
aircraft. So the vinyl would not have to come loose and jam a control to
give you a bad day.
Ed Anderson
> lucky macy wrote:
> > Just wondering out loud here as I contemplate ripping off another large
> > sheet of internal skin vinyl. Why? Why take it off other than the
strips
> > needed for deburring/dimpling? If I am not going to prime the inside of
the
> > sheeting then what is the harm other than weight? Won't it continue to
> > provide corrosion protection?
> >
> > Will the stuff degrade and flake off over time? It's plastic and never
sees
> > direct UV rays. Seems unlikely to me.
>
> I guess it's heavier than paint. How good is the glue that holds the
> plastic to the aluminium? Will it let go in a few hundred hours? If it
> lets go, what will the sheet of plastic do? Wrap round/jam up any
> controls?
>
> Frank.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6-A Battery Box |
> snip
>Why
> can't I just put two nutplates per side on the battery box bottom and do
> without the extra 7" piece? Van must have had a reason for designing it
> this way but it sure baffles me!!!!
>
> Ross
>
This small piece is a holdover from when the rudder pedal torque tube was
mounted along the floor instead of overhead. The installation required
notching the floor stiffeners. The small piece is a reinforcement for the
two center floor stiffeners. The plans have never been updated to reflect
the change in the rudder pedal mounting. Since my pedals have the overhead
mount I just left the small piece off.
Merry Christmas,
Stan Blanton
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: fly with the vinyl on? |
I'd be concerned about moisture getting under the edges of the plastic and causing
corrosion later on. Besides, you're putting a lot of time and money into this
airplane so why try to skimp on a little labor and maybe some *rimer?
Dave N87DL 43hrs So.CA
Frank and Dorothy wrote:
>
> lucky macy wrote:
> > Just wondering out loud here as I contemplate ripping off another large
> > sheet of internal skin vinyl. Why? Why take it off other than the strips
> > needed for deburring/dimpling? If I am not going to prime the inside of the
> > sheeting then what is the harm other than weight? Won't it continue to
> > provide corrosion protection?
> >
> > Will the stuff degrade and flake off over time? It's plastic and never sees
> > direct UV rays. Seems unlikely to me.
>
> I guess it's heavier than paint. How good is the glue that holds the
> plastic to the aluminium? Will it let go in a few hundred hours? If it
> lets go, what will the sheet of plastic do? Wrap round/jam up any
> controls?
>
> Frank.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fly with the vinyl on? |
if it's Alclad then whether it's covered with vinyl or not, gets moisture
trapped in between or not, it shouldn't oxidize, right? minus a scratch
here or there? remember, this is the inside of the skins.
>From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: fly with the vinyl on?
>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:10:35 -0800
>
>
>I'd be concerned about moisture getting under the edges of the plastic and
>causing
>corrosion later on. Besides, you're putting a lot of time and money into
>this
>airplane so why try to skimp on a little labor and maybe some *rimer?
>
>Dave N87DL 43hrs So.CA
>
>Frank and Dorothy wrote:
>
> >
> > lucky macy wrote:
> > > Just wondering out loud here as I contemplate ripping off another
>large
> > > sheet of internal skin vinyl. Why? Why take it off other than the
>strips
> > > needed for deburring/dimpling? If I am not going to prime the inside
>of the
> > > sheeting then what is the harm other than weight? Won't it continue
>to
> > > provide corrosion protection?
> > >
> > > Will the stuff degrade and flake off over time? It's plastic and
>never sees
> > > direct UV rays. Seems unlikely to me.
> >
> > I guess it's heavier than paint. How good is the glue that holds the
> > plastic to the aluminium? Will it let go in a few hundred hours? If it
> > lets go, what will the sheet of plastic do? Wrap round/jam up any
> > controls?
> >
> > Frank.
> >
>
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barstad, Are" <BarstadA(at)bis.adp.com> |
| Subject: | Edge Distance problem solved! |
Thanks again to everyone giving me advice about the rib to spar RV-8 Edge
Distance problem. Also, thanks to all that e-mailed me and thanking me for a
solution to their similar problem(s). As Kevin Horton says: My advice is
only worth as much as you paid for it (nothing) so please only make this
modification after you carefully research each individual case. And please
do consult Van's and/or your local inspector. IMO, It seems the Canadian
Inspectors have less tolerance for not following AC43.13 than the American
Inspectors. Of course, I may be wrong.
I spoke with Scott at Van's and he remembered that they had a problem
designing proper edge distance at this particular area on the RV-8. He
further told me that my modifications were fine and that proper strength was
restored.
My MD-RA inspector (Canadian version of EAA (FAA?) inspectors) told me
yesterday he would definitely not pass this as it was before I modified it.
1/8" edge distance on a 1/8" rivet simply won't do it - not even close. He
would commit a crime by signing it off. He did tell me though that simply
adding another rivet could have solved it but this is almost impossible in
this particular case since the 'reinforcement fork' is in the way and too
narrow at some of the areas.
Are
RV-8 Wings
Are Barstad
Director, Information Services
ADP/IICC Investor Communications
Direct line: (905) 565-5276
E-mail: abarstad(at)adpiicc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fly with the vinyl on? |
The answer is: Take it off!
I left the vinyl on my right elevator when I reskinned it, thinking it'd be a
nice protection until I got around to painting it. Well, after months out in
the sun the vinyl is cracked and impossible to get off.
Finn
MTMCGOWAN(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> I WONDERED THE SAME THING AS I TUGGED ON ALL THOSE BIG PIECES OF PLASTIC.
> WHATS THE ANSWER ? MIKE [ RV-4 WITH 195HP O320 JUST
> HUNG]
>
Why pay for something you could get for free?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fly with the vinyl on? |
For clarity, the question pertains to vinyl on the INSIDE of the skins - not
the outside.
>From: Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: fly with the vinyl on?
>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:00:43 -0500
>
>
>The answer is: Take it off!
>
>I left the vinyl on my right elevator when I reskinned it, thinking it'd be
>a
>nice protection until I got around to painting it. Well, after months out
>in
>the sun the vinyl is cracked and impossible to get off.
>
>Finn
>
>MTMCGOWAN(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> >
> > I WONDERED THE SAME THING AS I TUGGED ON ALL THOSE BIG PIECES OF
>PLASTIC.
> > WHATS THE ANSWER ? MIKE [ RV-4 WITH 195HP O320
>JUST
> > HUNG]
> >
>
>Why pay for something you could get for free?
>
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fly with the vinyl on? |
12/20/2000 11:34:33
Bake a test piece, with the blue wrap on , in the oven at 200 / 225
degrees and see what happens. Temps get pretty close to that in the
sun...imagine yourself at a flyin for 8 hours in the blistering
sun......the skin gets pretty hot.
"lucky macy"
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: cc:
owner-rv-list-server@mat Subject: Re: RV-List: fly
with the vinyl on?
ronics.com
12/20/2000 10:20 AM
Please respond to
rv-list
if it's Alclad then whether it's covered with vinyl or not, gets moisture
trapped in between or not, it shouldn't oxidize, right? minus a scratch
here or there? remember, this is the inside of the skins.
>From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: fly with the vinyl on?
>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:10:35 -0800
>
>
>I'd be concerned about moisture getting under the edges of the plastic and
>causing
>corrosion later on. Besides, you're putting a lot of time and money into
>this
>airplane so why try to skimp on a little labor and maybe some *rimer?
>
>Dave N87DL 43hrs So.CA
>
>Frank and Dorothy wrote:
>
> >
> > lucky macy wrote:
> > > Just wondering out loud here as I contemplate ripping off another
>large
> > > sheet of internal skin vinyl. Why? Why take it off other than the
>strips
> > > needed for deburring/dimpling? If I am not going to prime the inside
>of the
> > > sheeting then what is the harm other than weight? Won't it continue
>to
> > > provide corrosion protection?
> > >
> > > Will the stuff degrade and flake off over time? It's plastic and
>never sees
> > > direct UV rays. Seems unlikely to me.
> >
> > I guess it's heavier than paint. How good is the glue that holds the
> > plastic to the aluminium? Will it let go in a few hundred hours? If it
> > lets go, what will the sheet of plastic do? Wrap round/jam up any
> > controls?
> >
> > Frank.
> >
>
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rvpilot" <rvpilot(at)coollink.net> |
Thanks to all who made suggestions as to ISP's. One of them should work out.
Regards, Bill RV-8 N46WD Tiger-Kat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
| Subject: | Re: Pilots Operating Handbook |
I would like to get as copy of a RV pilots operating handbook even
though I have put over 400 hours on my RV4 (282EM) in the last 5 years.I
am 69 and those have been the best years of my life flying this
incredible airplane.Keep pounding those rivets!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 58 Msgs - 12/19/00 |
Re:
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torque
Values
<bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
-------------------
Maybe the lose bolts are what allowed the chatter to occur in the first
place?
Don Mei
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-8 Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torq |
ue Values
Why do you think the bolts wouldn't have stretched? If someone didn't
torque them enough, then they were too loose and allowed the chatter event
to occur and stretch the bolts. If they were over torqued, then they
yielded under the increased load caused by the chatter (occurring for some
other reason).
-----Original Message-----
From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley(at)qcbc.org]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of Torque Tables /
Torque Values
I seriously doubt that you stretched the bolts. The chatter occurred
because of looseness. Either the bolts were over-torqued on installation or
some one forgot to torque them.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 6-A Battery Box |
In a message dated 12/19/00 5:58:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com writes:
<< Why is the 7" x 15/16" 6104 piece used and why is only one bolt going
through the battery box bottom and the other is just bolted to the floor
stiffener. >>
Ross: If you are asking about the 7" long F-6120E piece, I asked Van's the
same question awhile back and the answer was to more evenly distribute the
weight of the battery over a greater length of the floor longerons.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, working on canopy installation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WPAerial(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: fly with the vinyl on? |
I've had parts waiting to be used in the building process where the vinyl let
moisture in around the edges. Quite a bit of corrosion set in under the vinyl
in these areas.
do not arcive
Jerry Wilken
Albany Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com> |
| Subject: | fly with the vinyl on? |
Here's my $.02
If you don't have time to pull the vinyl off, what else will you have no
time for???
Do the job right !
My old Drill Instructor once said " If a guy doesn't shine the back of his
shoes..
he probably doesn't wipe his ass either !"
End of $.02
Ed Cole
RV6A
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pcondon(at)csc.com [SMTP:pcondon(at)csc.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 8:40 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: fly with the vinyl on?
>
>
> Bake a test piece, with the blue wrap on , in the oven at 200 / 225
> degrees and see what happens. Temps get pretty close to that in the
> sun...imagine yourself at a flyin for 8 hours in the blistering
> sun......the skin gets pretty hot.
>
>
>
>
> "lucky macy"
>
> To:
> rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent by: cc:
>
> owner-rv-list-server@mat Subject: Re:
> RV-List: fly with the vinyl on?
> ronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
> 12/20/2000 10:20 AM
>
> Please respond to
>
> rv-list
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> if it's Alclad then whether it's covered with vinyl or not, gets moisture
> trapped in between or not, it shouldn't oxidize, right? minus a scratch
> here or there? remember, this is the inside of the skins.
>
>
> >From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: fly with the vinyl on?
> >Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:10:35 -0800
> >
> >
> >I'd be concerned about moisture getting under the edges of the plastic
> and
> >causing
> >corrosion later on. Besides, you're putting a lot of time and money into
> >this
> >airplane so why try to skimp on a little labor and maybe some *rimer?
> >
> >Dave N87DL 43hrs So.CA
> >
> >Frank and Dorothy wrote:
> >
>
> > >
> > > lucky macy wrote:
> > > > Just wondering out loud here as I contemplate ripping off another
> >large
> > > > sheet of internal skin vinyl. Why? Why take it off other than the
> >strips
> > > > needed for deburring/dimpling? If I am not going to prime the
> inside
> >of the
> > > > sheeting then what is the harm other than weight? Won't it continue
> >to
> > > > provide corrosion protection?
> > > >
> > > > Will the stuff degrade and flake off over time? It's plastic and
> >never sees
> > > > direct UV rays. Seems unlikely to me.
> > >
> > > I guess it's heavier than paint. How good is the glue that holds the
> > > plastic to the aluminium? Will it let go in a few hundred hours? If it
> > > lets go, what will the sheet of plastic do? Wrap round/jam up any
> > > controls?
> > >
> > > Frank.
> > >
> >
> >
>
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6-A Battery Box |
-----Original Message-----
From: HCRV6(at)AOL.COM <HCRV6(at)AOL.COM>
Date: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: 6-A Battery Box
>
>In a message dated 12/19/00 5:58:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com writes:
>
><< Why is the 7" x 15/16" 6104 piece used and why is only one bolt going
>through the battery box bottom and the other is just bolted to the floor
>stiffener. >>
>
>Ross: If you are asking about the 7" long F-6120E piece, I asked Van's
the
>same question awhile back and the answer was to more evenly distribute the
>weight of the battery over a greater length of the floor longerons.
>
>Harry Crosby
>Pleasanton, California
>RV-6, working on canopy installation
>
Let me get this straight: One lister reports Van's says it is a carryover
from the floor-mounted pedals and another lister says Van's says it is a
required part. Who do you believe -- Van's or Vans'?
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP 265 hours battery box per plans
Hampshire, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Pilots Operating Handbook |
I'm still building my RV-4 and I'd like a copy of your RV-4 hand book too!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: RVPilot4(at)webtv.net [mailto:RVPilot4(at)webtv.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 8:00 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Pilots Operating Handbook
I would like to get as copy of a RV pilots operating
handbook even
though I have put over 400 hours on my RV4 (282EM) in the
last 5 years.I
am 69 and those have been the best years of my life flying
this
incredible airplane.Keep pounding those rivets!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First anniversary |
>December 19, 2000 was the first anniversary of the maiden flight of my
>RV-6A, N198JS. It's been a wonderful year for us.
Absolutely! Same here. I'm now doing the annual condition inspection on my
-8. I still can't believe it's been a full year since that most exciting
day. I put 160 hours on her this year. What will next year bring? We're
planning a lot of long distance traveling next summer during my work
sabbatical. Probably up to Van's for a visit, then maybe down to Florida to
meet up Jeff Ludwig, Rusty Duffy, Bob Hargrave, and probably lots of other
great RV folks along the way. After a year of flying, only two dings so
far...a two inch crack in one wheel pant from smacking a chunk of ice during
a recent landing, and a leaky crankshaft oil seal. The crack is fixed, the
new seal goes in this weekend. Just love this airplane. It's the most fun
you can possibly have with your pants still on!
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-8 Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torqu |
e Values
Brian -
Thanks for the thoughts. I actually forgot all about the inspection
recommendation of 50-hr bolt tightness check. I think this is exactly what
happened... the bolts were loose (from general movement and settling of the
components) and the gear leg began moving at it's harmonic frequency
(chattering) when the tire began slipping and grabbing on the grass. This
led to the bolts becoming more loose and probably stretched somewhat.
Fortunately, the gear attach box (rivets, screws, etc) look to be in good
shape. Someone mentioned that the bolts should give-way before the plane or
gear leg... this sounds good to me. Actually it makes the idea of a rough,
off-airport landing a little easier to stomach. I'd rather shear off the
gear than rip out the gear box.
Another question, if you don't mind... how many G's have you seen in your
plane? I can't believe what 6 g's must be like. I've been up to about 3.5
g's alone at about 1/2 tanks, and this was pretty extreme.
Thanks
Bryan Jones
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Denk [mailto:akroguy(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of Torque Tables /
Torque Values
>
><bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
>
>Regarding the landing gear and associated bolting on the -8, I have
>recently
>had a problem that others might want to be aware of. I fly my plane from a
>grass strip. A week or so ago, I was landing and experienced a strange
>problem. Just after touching down, I began applying braking pressure
>(maybe
>a little heavier than normal since it was nearly dark). At that time I
>experienced what I'd call a fairly extreme chatter (a lot like a nose wheel
>shimmy, but higher frequency). I let up on the brakes and the chatter
>stopped. What I believe happened was the wheel was lightly loaded (the
>plane was still just below stall speed) and it began a slip/skid type
>situation. The grass strip is in fair condition, but has sections which
>are
>moderately rough.
>
>When I got back into the hanger, I noticed that I had some fiberglass
>damage
>and the left gear was loose. It had about 1/4" play fore and aft. When I
>pulled the gear attachment cover off to inspect the gear attachment, I
>found
>three loose bolts. I have to assume that the chatter caused the loose
>bolts. Specifically, the chatter action stretched the bolts.
>
>I haven't taken the bolts out yet. When I do, I'll know for sure if the
>bolts stretched or just what the deal is. I've bought new bolts and a new
>outboard gear leg steel attachment component. I'll probably replace them
>all, depending on the results of the inspection.
>
>Has anyone else experienced this problem? If not, be aware of heavy
>braking
>on anything other than very smooth surfaces. I called Van's and the person
>I discussed the problem with had not heard of this occurring.
>
>Bryan Jones -8 765BJ ~58-hrs
>Pearland, Texas
Bryan,
I followed Van's specs for torqueing the bolts and to leave a slight gap
between the U blocks and the wear plates. This led to some loose bolts! I
never had the vibration issue, but it took several turns on the nuts to
tighten up the gear....and man what a pain that was. Getting a socket on
those nuts inside the gear boxes has got to be the worst part to access in
the entire airplane. I noticed this looseness at about 50 hours...right
when the manual says to retorque them. So, I personally would just tighten
the bolts SNUGLY at initial installation and ignore the gap. Crank 'em down
and move on. I still have a slight squeeking noise coming from the left
gear box area when the plane is rocked laterally. I cannot for the life of
me figure out where this is coming from. It did not improve after tightening
the nuts. I just replaced the tires and brake pads last month. While the
plane was jacked up on stands, I checked the gear legs. Really yanked on
them fore and aft. They are rock solid. So far, so good.
Best of luck to ya.
Brian Denk
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | fly with the vinyl on? |
Right on ED! Couldn't have said it better.
This guy shouldn't to be building an airplane. I sure wouldn't fly in it.
Laird
BTW, I've decided to drop the tip up kit for my panel. It could still be done,
but there are too many things that need to be modified and/or closely watched
when doing the layout for the individuals panel for the average guy to do. I
couldn't plan for all the different posibilities, and don't want to put out a
1/2 assed kit that might not work for someone.
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Wed, Dec 20, 2000 10:55 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: fly with the vinyl on?
Here's my $.02
If you don't have time to pull the vinyl off, what else will you have no
time for???
Do the job right !
My old Drill Instructor once said " If a guy doesn't shine the back of his
shoes..
he probably doesn't wipe his ass either !"
End of $.02
Ed Cole
RV6A
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pcondon(at)csc.com [SMTP:pcondon(at)csc.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 8:40 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: fly with the vinyl on?
>
>
> Bake a test piece, with the blue wrap on , in the oven at 200 / 225
> degrees and see what happens. Temps get pretty close to that in the
> sun...imagine yourself at a flyin for 8 hours in the blistering
> sun......the skin gets pretty hot.
>
>
>
>
> "lucky macy"
>
> To:
> rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent by: cc:
>
> owner-rv-list-server@mat Subject: Re:
> RV-List: fly with the vinyl on?
> ronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
> 12/20/2000 10:20 AM
>
> Please respond to
>
> rv-list
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> if it's Alclad then whether it's covered with vinyl or not, gets moisture
> trapped in between or not, it shouldn't oxidize, right? minus a scratch
> here or there? remember, this is the inside of the skins.
>
>
> >From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: fly with the vinyl on?
> >Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:10:35 -0800
> >
> >
> >I'd be concerned about moisture getting under the edges of the plastic
> and
> >causing
> >corrosion later on. Besides, you're putting a lot of time and money into
> >this
> >airplane so why try to skimp on a little labor and maybe some *rimer?
> >
> >Dave N87DL 43hrs So.CA
> >
> >Frank and Dorothy wrote:
> >
>
> > >
> > > lucky macy wrote:
> > > > Just wondering out loud here as I contemplate ripping off another
> >large
> > > > sheet of internal skin vinyl. Why? Why take it off other than the
> >strips
> > > > needed for deburring/dimpling? If I am not going to prime the
> inside
> >of the
> > > > sheeting then what is the harm other than weight? Won't it continue
> >to
> > > > provide corrosion protection?
> > > >
> > > > Will the stuff degrade and flake off over time? It's plastic and
> >never sees
> > > > direct UV rays. Seems unlikely to me.
> > >
> > > I guess it's heavier than paint. How good is the glue that holds the
> > > plastic to the aluminium? Will it let go in a few hundred hours? If it
> > > lets go, what will the sheet of plastic do? Wrap round/jam up any
> > > controls?
> > >
> > > Frank.
> > >
> >
> >
>
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | fly with the vinyl on? |
My apolgies to Lucky and the List.
I meant to reply directly to Ed and forgot to change the address. My Bad.
Sorry,
Laird (with foot still in mouth)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pilots Operating Handbook |
12/20/2000 14:41:01
I posted my Word.doc format POH at one of VANS "WING" internet sites.
Check at VANS website for a link to a "WING" site(s), URL-over to the site
and browse for flight checklists, POH's and lots of goodies like
that......can't recall which "WING" site it is, but I know more than one
has online, free downloadable stuff like this.....good luck
"Van Artsdalen, Scott"
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: cc:
owner-rv-list-server@mat Subject: RE: RV-List: Pilots
Operating Handbook
ronics.com
12/20/2000 01:33 PM
Please respond to
rv-list
I'm still building my RV-4 and I'd like a copy of your RV-4 hand book too!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: RVPilot4(at)webtv.net [mailto:RVPilot4(at)webtv.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 8:00 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Pilots Operating Handbook
I would like to get as copy of a RV pilots operating
handbook even
though I have put over 400 hours on my RV4 (282EM) in the
last 5 years.I
am 69 and those have been the best years of my life flying
this
incredible airplane.Keep pounding those rivets!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First anniversary |
12/20/2000 14:49:31
Wheel pants ???
"Brian Denk"
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: cc:
owner-rv-list-server@mat Subject: Re: RV-List: First
anniversary
ronics.com
12/20/2000 01:57 PM
Please respond to
rv-list
>December 19, 2000 was the first anniversary of the maiden flight of my
>RV-6A, N198JS. It's been a wonderful year for us.
Absolutely! Same here. I'm now doing the annual condition inspection on my
-8. I still can't believe it's been a full year since that most exciting
day. I put 160 hours on her this year. What will next year bring? We're
planning a lot of long distance traveling next summer during my work
sabbatical. Probably up to Van's for a visit, then maybe down to Florida
to
meet up Jeff Ludwig, Rusty Duffy, Bob Hargrave, and probably lots of other
great RV folks along the way. After a year of flying, only two dings so
far...a two inch crack in one wheel pant from smacking a chunk of ice
during
a recent landing, and a leaky crankshaft oil seal. The crack is fixed, the
new seal goes in this weekend. Just love this airplane. It's the most fun
you can possibly have with your pants still on!
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fly with the vinyl on? |
According to Cee Bailey's, maker of acrylic bubbles and windows for
airplanes, vinyl reacts with acrylic and can cause cracking and crazing in
less than a year. The hotter, the quicker.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com> |
| Subject: | fly with the vinyl on? |
I didn't expect much support on my comment, but Ol' Lucky Macy might run
out
of luck here. It was a little harsh, but I hope I made a point.
That panel will indeed be tricky. Do you want me to ship your blank back to
you ?
How's that "bird" of yours going back together? Hope your back in the air
soon. Good Luck.
Ed Cole
Maxim Integrated Products
Bldg. 120 Ext. 6605
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Owens, Laird [SMTP:Owens(at)aerovironment.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 11:29 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: fly with the vinyl on?
>
>
> Right on ED! Couldn't have said it better.
>
> This guy shouldn't to be building an airplane. I sure wouldn't fly in it.
>
> Laird
>
> BTW, I've decided to drop the tip up kit for my panel. It could still be
> done, but there are too many things that need to be modified and/or
> closely watched when doing the layout for the individuals panel for the
> average guy to do. I couldn't plan for all the different posibilities,
> and don't want to put out a 1/2 assed kit that might not work for someone.
> From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Wed, Dec 20, 2000 10:55 AM
> Subject: RE: RV-List: fly with the vinyl on?
> To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
>
>
> Here's my $.02
>
> If you don't have time to pull the vinyl off, what else will you have no
> time for???
> Do the job right !
>
> My old Drill Instructor once said " If a guy doesn't shine the back of his
> shoes..
> he probably doesn't wipe his ass either !"
>
> End of $.02
>
> Ed Cole
> RV6A
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pcondon(at)csc.com [SMTP:pcondon(at)csc.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 8:40 AM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: fly with the vinyl on?
> >
> >
> > Bake a test piece, with the blue wrap on , in the oven at 200 / 225
> > degrees and see what happens. Temps get pretty close to that in the
> > sun...imagine yourself at a flyin for 8 hours in the blistering
> > sun......the skin gets pretty hot.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "lucky macy"
> >
> > To:
> > rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Sent by: cc:
> >
> > owner-rv-list-server@mat Subject: Re:
> > RV-List: fly with the vinyl on?
> > ronics.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 12/20/2000 10:20 AM
> >
> > Please respond to
> >
> > rv-list
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > if it's Alclad then whether it's covered with vinyl or not, gets
> moisture
> > trapped in between or not, it shouldn't oxidize, right? minus a scratch
> > here or there? remember, this is the inside of the skins.
> >
> >
> > >From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
> > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > >Subject: Re: RV-List: fly with the vinyl on?
> > >Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:10:35 -0800
> > >
> > >
> > >I'd be concerned about moisture getting under the edges of the plastic
> > and
> > >causing
> > >corrosion later on. Besides, you're putting a lot of time and money
> into
> > >this
> > >airplane so why try to skimp on a little labor and maybe some *rimer?
> > >
> > >Dave N87DL 43hrs So.CA
> > >
> > >Frank and Dorothy wrote:
> > >
> >
> > > >
> > > > lucky macy wrote:
> > > > > Just wondering out loud here as I contemplate ripping off another
> > >large
> > > > > sheet of internal skin vinyl. Why? Why take it off other than
> the
> > >strips
> > > > > needed for deburring/dimpling? If I am not going to prime the
> > inside
> > >of the
> > > > > sheeting then what is the harm other than weight? Won't it
> continue
> > >to
> > > > > provide corrosion protection?
> > > > >
> > > > > Will the stuff degrade and flake off over time? It's plastic and
> > >never sees
> > > > > direct UV rays. Seems unlikely to me.
> > > >
> > > > I guess it's heavier than paint. How good is the glue that holds the
> > > > plastic to the aluminium? Will it let go in a few hundred hours? If
> it
> > > > lets go, what will the sheet of plastic do? Wrap round/jam up any
> > > > controls?
> > > >
> > > > Frank.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-8 Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torqu e Values |
12/20/2000 15:25:24
I recall a picture of a ground looped RV and the landing gear legs (rods)
were rolled up like a clock main spring...implying in this case the bolts
held and the rods bent. Likewise my hangermates front whitmann rod (RV-6A)
bent (sprattled) back 3/4 of the way and came to rest bent that way after a
VERY hard landing. No bolt(s) failed or welds ripped or rivets
sprung........
"Jones, Bryan D."
tgo.com> cc:
Sent by: Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-8
Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of
owner-rv-list-server@mat Torque Tables / Torqu e Values
ronics.com
12/20/2000 02:18 PM
Please respond to
rv-list
<bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
Brian -
Thanks for the thoughts. I actually forgot all about the inspection
recommendation of 50-hr bolt tightness check. I think this is exactly what
happened... the bolts were loose (from general movement and settling of
the
components) and the gear leg began moving at it's harmonic frequency
(chattering) when the tire began slipping and grabbing on the grass. This
led to the bolts becoming more loose and probably stretched somewhat.
Fortunately, the gear attach box (rivets, screws, etc) look to be in good
shape. Someone mentioned that the bolts should give-way before the plane
or
gear leg... this sounds good to me. Actually it makes the idea of a
rough,
off-airport landing a little easier to stomach. I'd rather shear off the
gear than rip out the gear box.
Another question, if you don't mind... how many G's have you seen in your
plane? I can't believe what 6 g's must be like. I've been up to about 3.5
g's alone at about 1/2 tanks, and this was pretty extreme.
Thanks
Bryan Jones
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Denk [mailto:akroguy(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of Torque Tables /
Torque Values
>
><bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
>
>Regarding the landing gear and associated bolting on the -8, I have
>recently
>had a problem that others might want to be aware of. I fly my plane from
a
>grass strip. A week or so ago, I was landing and experienced a strange
>problem. Just after touching down, I began applying braking pressure
>(maybe
>a little heavier than normal since it was nearly dark). At that time I
>experienced what I'd call a fairly extreme chatter (a lot like a nose
wheel
>shimmy, but higher frequency). I let up on the brakes and the chatter
>stopped. What I believe happened was the wheel was lightly loaded (the
>plane was still just below stall speed) and it began a slip/skid type
>situation. The grass strip is in fair condition, but has sections which
>are
>moderately rough.
>
>When I got back into the hanger, I noticed that I had some fiberglass
>damage
>and the left gear was loose. It had about 1/4" play fore and aft. When I
>pulled the gear attachment cover off to inspect the gear attachment, I
>found
>three loose bolts. I have to assume that the chatter caused the loose
>bolts. Specifically, the chatter action stretched the bolts.
>
>I haven't taken the bolts out yet. When I do, I'll know for sure if the
>bolts stretched or just what the deal is. I've bought new bolts and a new
>outboard gear leg steel attachment component. I'll probably replace them
>all, depending on the results of the inspection.
>
>Has anyone else experienced this problem? If not, be aware of heavy
>braking
>on anything other than very smooth surfaces. I called Van's and the
person
>I discussed the problem with had not heard of this occurring.
>
>Bryan Jones -8 765BJ ~58-hrs
>Pearland, Texas
Bryan,
I followed Van's specs for torqueing the bolts and to leave a slight gap
between the U blocks and the wear plates. This led to some loose bolts! I
never had the vibration issue, but it took several turns on the nuts to
tighten up the gear....and man what a pain that was. Getting a socket on
those nuts inside the gear boxes has got to be the worst part to access in
the entire airplane. I noticed this looseness at about 50 hours...right
when the manual says to retorque them. So, I personally would just tighten
the bolts SNUGLY at initial installation and ignore the gap. Crank 'em down
and move on. I still have a slight squeeking noise coming from the left
gear box area when the plane is rocked laterally. I cannot for the life of
me figure out where this is coming from. It did not improve after
tightening
the nuts. I just replaced the tires and brake pads last month. While the
plane was jacked up on stands, I checked the gear legs. Really yanked on
them fore and aft. They are rock solid. So far, so good.
Best of luck to ya.
Brian Denk
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Emp & Wing fixture question |
I just bought the material for my fixture (laminated or "engineered" lumber)
and I was wondering if I could get by just using two of these relatively
expensive pieces of wood. They are 9 1/2" wide, so a guy could rip three 3"
wide pieces out of each 10' length and have enough pieces after making so
much sawdust to make both uprights and the cross piece.
My question is this. Is there any reason why a person needs the dimensions to
be 3 1/2" wide, or could I go with the 3" I mentioned earlier?
Thanks.
Bob Moser
East Bethel, MN
RV-8 tail and tool kit ordered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emp & Wing fixture question |
If it is the kind of stress rated lumber or glue lam I think it is I would
happily trade you some standard and better (#2) for it. What you have is
much stronger and stiffer than common lumberyard stuff.
hal
----- Original Message -----
From: <FK27Bob(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 12:48 PM
Subject: RV-List: Emp & Wing fixture question
>
> I just bought the material for my fixture (laminated or "engineered"
lumber)
> and I was wondering if I could get by just using two of these relatively
> expensive pieces of wood. They are 9 1/2" wide, so a guy could rip three
3"
> wide pieces out of each 10' length and have enough pieces after making so
> much sawdust to make both uprights and the cross piece.
>
> My question is this. Is there any reason why a person needs the dimensions
to
> be 3 1/2" wide, or could I go with the 3" I mentioned earlier?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bob Moser
> East Bethel, MN
> RV-8 tail and tool kit ordered
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Vinyl on the canopy |
I read that Vinyl will crack and craze acrylics. My canopy came covered
with vinyl. I left most of it on so that it didn't get scratched while I
did a thousand other things after fitting the canopy.
Should I peel that vinyl off?
Steve Soule
Huntington, VT
RV-6A finishing details
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William B. Culberson" <billc(at)ceebic.org> |
| Subject: | Just wanna touch one.... |
Hello All,
Just received my -8 Empennage Kit and have begun reconfiguring my Model
A/C shop to build the ultimate model A/C (1:1 scale :) ). I live in
Mobile, Alabama and would love to Fly/drive somewhere close by and have
a look at a close to complete or complete -6 or -8 sometime during the
holidays. Anyone close by?
Bill Culberson
-8 empennage (countin' rivets)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emp & Wing fixture question |
I can't see any reason the 3" dimension shouldn't work for you. You might
need some extra material in a couple of locations when you mount the
crosspieces that support the wing spars, but I think you're fine.
Jim Bower
St. Louis, MO
RV-6A
Wings
>From: FK27Bob(at)AOL.COM
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Emp & Wing fixture question
>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:48:25 EST
>
>
>I just bought the material for my fixture (laminated or "engineered"
>lumber)
>and I was wondering if I could get by just using two of these relatively
>expensive pieces of wood. They are 9 1/2" wide, so a guy could rip three 3"
>wide pieces out of each 10' length and have enough pieces after making so
>much sawdust to make both uprights and the cross piece.
>
>My question is this. Is there any reason why a person needs the dimensions
>to
>be 3 1/2" wide, or could I go with the 3" I mentioned earlier?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bob Moser
>East Bethel, MN
>RV-8 tail and tool kit ordered
>
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emp & Wing fixture question |
Bob,
I can't recall any reason why any part of either the empenage or wing jig
needs to be 3-1/2" wide. It's probably only because that happens to be the
depth of a 2x4. Engineered lumber, especially if it is the laminated veneer
kind, is probably excellent because it is relatively stable with moisture
changes, but remember that you are going to be working to a string line and
not the edge of the lumberYou can use your own ideas to make it rigid. I
think I remember making a T shaped section out of 2x4's as the horizontal
part. . I recall buying some stuff called "prime trim", which was a
pre-painted exterior trim material for houses. I used it as a surface on
the empenage jig and snapped and drew my straight lines on that.
When you get to the wing jig, you are really just building a frame to
support the main spar of the wing by each end and to lock the rear spar in
place. I don't think it makes any difference how you get there and with
what material, as long as it is solid and doesn't move.
When you get to the fuselage jig, you are building a flat, rigid framework
to support and lock in place the longerons and bulkheads, but again, you
will be working to a string line for straightness, but it must be level.
Terry
RV-8A #80729 fuselage
Seattle
>
> I just bought the material for my fixture (laminated or "engineered"
lumber)
> and I was wondering if I could get by just using two of these relatively
> expensive pieces of wood. They are 9 1/2" wide, so a guy could rip three
3"
> wide pieces out of each 10' length and have enough pieces after making so
> much sawdust to make both uprights and the cross piece.
>
> My question is this. Is there any reason why a person needs the dimensions
to
> be 3 1/2" wide, or could I go with the 3" I mentioned earlier?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bob Moser
> East Bethel, MN
> RV-8 tail and tool kit ordered
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Speeds/Vortex Generators |
2.0.15) with ESMTP id
for" ;, Mon(at)webtv.net, 18(at)webtv.net, Dec(at)webtv.net,
2000(at)webtv.net, 14:16:07.-0500(at)matronics.com's message of Mon, 18 Dec 2000
When I read reports on this list of how hard it must be on the landing
gear to land at 10 mph slower speed it is no wonder that RV people I
know roll their eyes when someone mentions the RV list.The idea is to
survive an off airport landing.You have a 75%better chance to survive at
50mph compared to 70 mph. This was told to me by Van himself.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilots Operating Handbook |
Carey,
I made up one for my RV-8A with an IO-360-A1A and C/S prop. It is located
on Kevin Horton's website. I'm sorry I don't have his website adddress
handy as I am on the road and using another computer from my own. But I
know you can find him on the Van's Air Force website.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A N809RS
12.9 hours
>From: Rvmils(at)AOL.COM
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Pilots Operating Handbook
>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:12:55 EST
>
>
>I'm in the process of flying off my 40hrs and trying to put together a POH.
>Does anyone know where I can find one on the web to copy for a guide?
>Thanks,
>Carey Mills
>RV4, 24hrs
>
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank and Dorothy <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: fly with the vinyl on? |
kempthornes wrote:
>
>
> According to Cee Bailey's, maker of acrylic bubbles and windows for
> airplanes, vinyl reacts with acrylic and can cause cracking and crazing in
> less than a year. The hotter, the quicker.
Yikes! And Vans ships their bubbles with vinyl attached!
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <Scott.Wilder(at)sf.frb.org> |
| Subject: | reaming spar joint attach holes |
finishing up the fuselage attach bulkhead and thought I would put the spars
in it and bolt everything up for a fit check and a picture, I know the
close tolerance bolts won't go through because of primer and slight
misalignments, do you'all think it is permissible to hand ream using a .374
as long as I clamp the laminations on either side of the hole I'm reaming?
same with the .249 and 3/16 holes?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: reaming spar joint attach holes |
>
> finishing up the fuselage attach bulkhead and thought I would put the
spars
> in it and bolt everything up for a fit check and a picture, I know the
> close tolerance bolts won't go through because of primer and slight
> misalignments, do you'all think it is permissible to hand ream using a
.374
> as long as I clamp the laminations on either side of the hole I'm reaming?
> same with the .249 and 3/16 holes?
>
> Scott,
I found that if I used the rivet gun on a low psi setting to push the
bolts through the holes it worked well. At least in my case, the rapid but
gentle rapping on the head would push the bolts through when a heavy hammer
would not. You might give it a try before reaming the holes, you can always
ream.
Ed Anderson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | abavac(at)pacbell.net |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: radios |
elizabeth lincoln wrote:
> --> RV6-List message posted by: "elizabeth lincoln"
>
> Does anyone have any experience with the ICS Plus combination
> comm/vor/glidscope/intercom all in one?sure would save space and would
> be simple. Only costs $1360.
>
> Andy
> CONTACT HANK HUDDLESTON(at)BAHAHUD@AOL.COM HE HAS USED AN ICS RADIO IN HIS
> LAST TWO PLANES, ONE AN RV-4 IRWIN ABRAMS @ ABAVAC(at)PACBELL.NET
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vinyl on the canopy |
I left the vinyl on until the last minute. That way i didn't have as much
area to mask when I was slobbering epoxy all over the canopy. No ill
effects after 1 yr. of flying.
Rick Caldwell
-6 170 hrs & hoping AlliedSignal honors my warranty after 11 mos. use.
Melbourne, FL
>From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "Rv-List (E-mail)"
>Subject: RV-List: Vinyl on the canopy
>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:37:45 -0500
>
>
>I read that Vinyl will crack and craze acrylics. My canopy came covered
>with vinyl. I left most of it on so that it didn't get scratched while I
>did a thousand other things after fitting the canopy.
>
>Should I peel that vinyl off?
>
>Steve Soule
>Huntington, VT
>RV-6A finishing details
>
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Poor Man's Encoder |
| From: | HCRV6(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: 6-A Battery Box |
In a message dated 12/20/00 10:29:46 AM Pacific Standard Time,
dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<< Who do you believe -- Van's or Vans'? >>
At the risk of taking another hit from the list--- have you asked Van's yet?
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, working on canopy installation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Reeves, Doug" <Douglas.Reeves(at)archongroup.com> |
| Subject: | New features on the VAF-World Wide Wing web site (www.vansaircraf |
t.net)
Hi listers,
I'd like to make you aware of a new feature of the VAF-World Wide Wing web
site (www.vansaircraft.net <http://www.vansaircraft.net>) - the ability to
'Ask A Company Tech Rep'. Several of the advertisers on the site (listed
below) have a link under their respective ads pointing to a unique
discussion board pertaining to their particular product(s). A
representative from each of the companies with a link has agreed to check
that board and address any questions posted. The benefits of doing this
include the fact that the answers come 'straight from the horse's mouth' and
also since everyone can see the answers we all benefit from the knowledge.
Think of it as a virtual vendor booth at a virtual fly-in. No waiting.
Several of the company reps answering these boards do so on their own time
or often times while on the road, so please make a point to thank them on
occasion.
Two of the boards getting a lot of exercise these days are Sensenich and
Whelen (strobes). You might want to start with these. I didn't have any
questions, but by looking through the answers posted I learned a few things.
- Aerox Oxygen Systems
- Axis Products (HVLP painting)
- Control Vision (Color Moving Maps)
- Lightspeed Aviation (ANR Headsets)
- RMI (microENCODER and microMONITOR)
- Sensenich Props
- Sentry A/C Cylinders
- Technology Kitchen (Engine Power Monitor)
- Unison (Lasar Electronic Engine Controls)
- Vortex Generators (Larry Vetterman)
- Whelen Strobe Systems
Again, the link to each respective board is under that company's
advertisement and will be called 'Ask a Tech Rep', or something like that.
Lastly, there are several new additions in the 'Articles' section, the
'Classified' section seems to change hourly, and the RV White Pages now
lists over 730 builders/flyers in 17 countries.
I hope you find something here helpful.
Happy holidays and best regards,
Doug Reeves
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net <http://www.vansaircraft.net>
www.vansairforce.net <http://www.vansairforce.net>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vans Part #LN HS-30-1 Strobe Installation Package |
> How many Molex connectors come with this kit?
>
> I want to do both wingtips and the tail in a RV6A.
>
> Thank-you, Norman,
Whelen uses AMP Mate-N-Lok connectors which are incompatible with Molex.
Sorry, can't tell you how many they provide.
Randy Lervold
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Stewart <bruces(at)shoalhaven.net.au> |
Hi All,
check this out, particuly the last sentence!!!
Bruce Stewart
http://www.basi.gov.au/occurs/ob200000885.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Whelen Strobe Retrofit |
In a message dated 12/20/00 5:31:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
nhunger(at)sprint.ca writes:
<< I am again a little disappointed that all this very expensive stuff came
with no paper work of any kind. I am a first time builder so I would prefer
every new electrical item to have a schematic. There was way too many hits
in the archives. >>
Call them and tell them you want the installation manual. I can make a copy
of mine and send it to you if you like.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vinyl on the canopy |
> I read that Vinyl will crack and craze acrylics. My canopy came covered
> with vinyl
I kept mine covered for two years - indoors away from sun and heat.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | skyforce IIIC GPS |
Has anyone tried Matt's SkyComm software with the Skyforce IIIC GPS? Sounds
like a easy way to add check lists and reference data for crosss country
flights to the Skyforce IIIC. It's available on Matronic's site and was
just wondering how well the modification works.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
-6 fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pants or fairings first |
> Vans list the fairings first . I would think I need to do the pants first
> , so I will have something to fit the fairings to.
>
> Don Jordan RV6A Arlington, Tx
I don't think it matters if the gear leg fairing or wheel pants go on first
with Vans design. After these two are installed, then you fabricate the
gear leg intersection fairings between the gear leg fairing and the wheel
pants and fuselage. If you are using the Team Rocket ones it is a different
story. In that case, the wheel pants go on first.
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6-A Battery Box |
> Let me get this straight: One lister reports Van's says it is a carryover
> from the floor-mounted pedals and another lister says Van's says it is a
> required part. Who do you believe -- Van's or Vans'?
I asked Andy Hannah about this a while back (he designed the new box) and he
hemmed and hawed and allowed as to how it was kind of a carryover from the
floor mounted rudder pedals. Now this is just my impression but I think that
he was a relatively new engineer at the time and might not have been anxious
to make things TOO much different from the original, so he left them in
there but just made them lower. That being said, I left mine in -- they're
part of the required kit and unless and until Vans officially says otherwise
I wouldn't want to change it. I mean, they really don't hurt anything
anyway, just a little extra complexity in the build phase.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Donohue Global" <John_Donohue(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilots Operating Handbook |
Hello:
I don't remember who was asking about the POH and Flight test cards but here
is where I found some,
http://www.vansairforce.org/flight_test/
http://www.aftershock.org/rv_builders_resources.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: <pcondon(at)csc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 2:46 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Pilots Operating Handbook
>
> I posted my Word.doc format POH at one of VANS "WING" internet sites.
> Check at VANS website for a link to a "WING" site(s), URL-over to the site
> and browse for flight checklists, POH's and lots of goodies like
> that......can't recall which "WING" site it is, but I know more than one
> has online, free downloadable stuff like this.....good luck
>
>
> "Van Artsdalen, Scott"
> To:
rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent by: cc:
> owner-rv-list-server@mat Subject: RE:
RV-List: Pilots Operating Handbook
> ronics.com
>
>
> 12/20/2000 01:33 PM
> Please respond to
> rv-list
>
>
>
>
> I'm still building my RV-4 and I'd like a copy of your RV-4 hand book too!
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
> Network Administrator
> Union Safe Deposit Bank
> 209-946-5116
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RVPilot4(at)webtv.net
[mailto:RVPilot4(at)webtv.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 8:00 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Pilots Operating Handbook
>
>
> I would like to get as copy of a RV pilots operating
> handbook even
> though I have put over 400 hours on my RV4 (282EM) in the
> last 5 years.I
> am 69 and those have been the best years of my life flying
> this
> incredible airplane.Keep pounding those rivets!!!!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Shipped with vinyl?? |
Are we sure that the canopy ships with vinyl and not some other
plastic? The plastic film protecting my canopy feels more like a
polyethylene type film than a polyvinyl.
-Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | VM1000 fuel probe inst. |
Have competed the fuel probe installation on the 6A. I was able to get
fittings machined that rivet into the bottom rear inboard corner of the
tanks that include a threaded bushing set at the correct angle. The
installation requires approx 2.5 hours per tank, this includes the time to
cut the holes in the tank ribs. This was done prior to pro-sealing and
riveting.
Have saved the computerized program for the milling of these fittings so
could make them available to anyone interested. Contact me of the list.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: skyforce IIIC GPS |
--- Jerry Calvert wrote:
>
> Has anyone tried Matt's SkyComm software with the Skyforce IIIC GPS?
> Sounds
> like a easy way to add check lists and reference data for crosss
> country
> flights to the Skyforce IIIC. It's available on Matronic's site and
> was
> just wondering how well the modification works.
>
> Jerry Calvert
Ummm.... considering the cost of the unit and Matt's warning that he's
not responsible if the program frys the Skyforce software.....
_You_ go first and let us know!
:) ;) :)
I find a plastic covered paper checklist works great!
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Gascolator - Fuel Pump Installation |
Have been thinking of installing Van's gascolator and the Air Flow
Performance pump both in the wing root space on the 6A. Did the first layout
of it yesterday and it looks like it is quite possible with some minor
changes to the plumbing. Will do a trial run on this over the holidays using
a template of of .032 and see what happens.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | reaming spar joint attach holes |
Thread-Topic: RV-List: reaming spar joint attach holes
Thread-Index: AcBq7xZPT/Gjlo+dSOSFRvP8/Igi5gAa4HOg
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
I wouldn't ream the holes. When I called Vans about reaming the holes,
I think Tom wanted to ream me. Apparently they think reaming the holes
is a no-no.
I used a 2x rivet gun to drive in the bolts and they went in like they
were going through butter. Like Ed says, the hammer didn't work where
the rivet gun made it easy.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 64 hours
> I found that if I used the rivet gun on a low psi setting
> to push the
> bolts through the holes it worked well. At least in my case,
> the rapid but
> gentle rapping on the head would push the bolts through when
> a heavy hammer
> would not. You might give it a try before reaming the holes,
> you can always
> ream.
>
> Ed Anderson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Scrap bin search |
Fellow RVers...
Does anyone out there have a piece of .063 x 2" x 2" in their scrap bins?
I'm making a bellcrank spacer with a bulge in the side to accomodate my
S-Tec roll servo pushrod connection. It would normally be placed right on
the edge of the normal spacer.
Ralph Capen
RV6AQB N822AR
Richardson, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gascolator - Fuel Pump Installation |
After this install - will it require wing removal for pump/gascolator
servicing? That sounds like a potential disadvantage. I've seen another
installation similar to this one - keeps the fuel pump out of the foot area.
I think it's a great idea - I'm following this one!
Ralph Capen
RV6AQB N822AR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | fly with the vinyl on? |
Lucky,
I was always under the impression the vinyl was put on the skins to
help prevent scratches in handling the material. As we are aware, a
scratch in the Alcad surface can allow corrosion. May guess is that the
Alcad surface would do a fine job protecting your skins without the
vinyl as long as you don't scratch them. You might consider priming in
the cabin areas. Anyway, I do not think the manufacturer ever intended
the covering to be left on, but thats my opinion. You could try
calling.
I primered the inside of my skins where ever they came into contact
with another component such as a bulkhead, but areas left open are only
coated with overspray from primer going on the intended areas. I
thought it would minimize the weight, yet provide some additional
protection.
I really hope this helps.
Have a Merry Christmas,
David Schilling
RV-6A
----------
From: lucky macy[SMTP:luckymacy(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 7:43 PM
Subject: RV-List: fly with the vinyl on?
Listers,
Just wondering out loud here as I contemplate ripping off another large
sheet of internal skin vinyl. Why? Why take it off other than the
strips
needed for deburring/dimpling? If I am not going to prime the inside of
the
sheeting then what is the harm other than weight? Won't it continue to
provide corrosion protection?
Will the stuff degrade and flake off over time? It's plastic and never
sees
direct UV rays. Seems unlikely to me.
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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MGBmE4dda8ABHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAFH0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
Amazing, I can't believe the owner would take off with the boost pump turned
off. I wonder if the aircraft was fitted with a fuel pressure gauge? I
also wonder if the owner had made any comments about the boost pump to the
person who piloted the aircraft during the crash? Wonder how good the
nomenclature was on the panel? Did the pilot even know there was a boost
pump? I've seen some panels that were signed off that had pretty poor
markings.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Stewart <bruces(at)shoalhaven.net.au>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 10:21 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re:RV 3 Crash
>
> Hi All,
>
> check this out, particuly the last sentence!!!
>
> Bruce Stewart
>
>
> http://www.basi.gov.au/occurs/ob200000885.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
Listers what are the associated costs for a five point
harness in an rv-8 8A? Are there any vendors other
than vans with the FAA/TSO markings on the belts?
Looking for a good price prefferebly with push button
operation. Any of you guys know anyone in the
business? Thanks
Glenn Williams
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Vinyl on the canopy |
Is it vinyl? It feels like heavy Saran Wrap to me. Or that plastic they
wrap around the boxes on shipping palettes. I don't know what that stuff is
made out of.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: kempthornes [mailto:kempthornes(at)home.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 8:41 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Vinyl on the canopy
> I read that Vinyl will crack and craze acrylics. My
canopy came covered
> with vinyl
I kept mine covered for two years - indoors away from sun
and heat.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gerard Pearson" <wildgoose(at)outerbounds.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/19/00 |
----- Original Message -----
From: RV6-List Digest Server <rv6-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 12:54 AM
Subject: RV6-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/19/00
> *
>
>
____
> From: "Douglas E. Bostard" <dougacft(at)jps.net>
> Subject: RV6-List: Re: RV6-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/17/00
>
> --> RV6-List message posted by: "Douglas E. Bostard"
>
> CHECKLIST: I have 2 separate checklists I developed which are
> comprehensive for my 6A. One for prestart, other side for preflight,
> then one for prelanding. They are laminated and computer generated with
> some notations in red. Also made up a cheatsheet for the VM 1000 which
> is somewhat complicated in various modes. It helps a little. I could
> email you what I have and you could modify/regenerate to suit, then
> print, then lamiunate. Mine are about 3.5" X 5.0" Doug B.
>
>
> Doug:
Could you E mail me a copy of your checklists for the RV-6/A, and for the
VM-1000 as well.
Wasn't there someone or someplace that had developed an "aircraft-pilot
operation handbook" for the RV-4 and/or RV-6. It seems to me I either read
something via E-mail or otherwise regarding the POH. Any hints of that in
your travels?
Thanks
Gerard Pearson
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Gascolator - Fuel Pump Installation |
Eustace,
I saw your -6 installation of the gascolator in the wing root in the RVator years
ago. I did something similar.
You can see my installation in the left root at:
http://members3.clubphoto.com/socal230330/RV-6_Builders_album/
I tried to get the boost pump in there as well, but it was a little too crowded
with the flop tube routing. (I wouldn't do that mod again). I also thought that
maintance would be a pain.
Good luck getting the gascolator AND the HP pump. I look forward to seeing your
solution.
Laird Owens RV-6, N515L, 150 hrs
O-360, Sensenich (83)
Simi Valley, SoCal
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Thu, Dec 21, 2000 7:19 AM
Subject: RV-List: Gascolator - Fuel Pump Installation
Have been thinking of installing Van's gascolator and the Air Flow
Performance pump both in the wing root space on the 6A. Did the first layout
of it yesterday and it looks like it is quite possible with some minor
changes to the plumbing. Will do a trial run on this over the holidays using
a template of of .032 and see what happens.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gascolator - Fuel Pump Installation |
The installation is planned to be fully serviceable with only the removal of
the fairing.
Eustace
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Thursday, December 21, 2000 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Gascolator - Fuel Pump Installation
>
>After this install - will it require wing removal for pump/gascolator
>servicing? That sounds like a potential disadvantage. I've seen another
>installation similar to this one - keeps the fuel pump out of the foot
area.
>I think it's a great idea - I'm following this one!
>
>Ralph Capen
>RV6AQB N822AR
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Ldg Gear, Was Vans Use of Torque Tables / Torqu e Values |
>
>
>Brian -
>
>Thanks for the thoughts. I actually forgot all about the inspection
>recommendation of 50-hr bolt tightness check. I think this is exactly what
>happened... the bolts were loose (from general movement and settling of
>the
>components) and the gear leg began moving at it's harmonic frequency
>(chattering) when the tire began slipping and grabbing on the grass. This
>led to the bolts becoming more loose and probably stretched somewhat.
>Fortunately, the gear attach box (rivets, screws, etc) look to be in good
>shape. Someone mentioned that the bolts should give-way before the plane
>or
>gear leg... this sounds good to me. Actually it makes the idea of a
>rough,
>off-airport landing a little easier to stomach. I'd rather shear off the
>gear than rip out the gear box.
>
>Another question, if you don't mind... how many G's have you seen in your
>plane? I can't believe what 6 g's must be like. I've been up to about 3.5
>g's alone at about 1/2 tanks, and this was pretty extreme.
>
>Thanks
>
>Bryan Jones
Bryan,
Yeah, I think the 50 hour torque inspection should be HIGHLY emphasized in
the manual. There are so many layers of stuff in the gear boxes and they are
bound to settle and compress, thus making for some pretty loose bolts. All
it takes are a few metal chips sandwiched between the wear plates, belly
skin, weldment, longeron, etc etc, and once those buggers get squished or
forced out, it's wobbly gear leg time.
As for G loads, I've seen about +4.5 and -2 with full tanks. It takes a
helluva pull to put more than that on it while solo. I use between 3 and 4 G
on a loop pullup. Any less, and you run out of speed over the top..at least
at this altitude. Any more, and you're just punishing the airframe and pilot
needlessly. Besides, my seat cushion squishes down so much after a mild
acro session, that I can hardly see over the glareshield during taxi back to
the hangar! There MUST be a better way to design the front seat. I've
thought of trashing the whole setup and installing a fiberglass racing
bucket seat. Yet more stuff to ponder.
Brian Denk
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: seat belt cost |
I recommend Hooker Harness. I have them in my 6A and after 25 hours of
flying I can say that they are much more comfortable to wear than Van's
harness. I find I can tighten the seat belt very firmly across my hips and
the wider padding of the Hooker's does not feel uncomfortable which I did
experience in the half-dozen or so RV's I've flown in with Van's belts.
Hooker seems to be the gold standard for acro people and are OEMs for Extra
and many other acro planes.
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 25 hours and snowed in
Hampshire, IL C38
-----Original Message-----
From: glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Thursday, December 21, 2000 10:03 AM
Subject: RV-List: seat belt cost
>
>Listers what are the associated costs for a five point
>harness in an rv-8 8A? Are there any vendors other
>than vans with the FAA/TSO markings on the belts?
>Looking for a good price prefferebly with push button
>operation. Any of you guys know anyone in the
>business? Thanks
> Glenn Williams
>
>====
>Glenn Williams
>8A
>A&P
>N81GW
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gascolator - Fuel Pump Installation |
> Have been thinking of installing Van's gascolator and the Air Flow
> Performance pump both in the wing root space on the 6A. Did the first
layout
> of it yesterday and it looks like it is quite possible with some minor
> changes to the plumbing. Will do a trial run on this over the holidays
using
> a template of of .032 and see what happens.
>
> Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
Good luck to you. I REALLY tried to get this to work but couldn't find the
fittings to do it. I wanted to keep the suggested 45 degree angle on the
fuel pump. I got real close. The run from the fuel pump into the cabin
stuck up above the wing by about 1/4 to 3/8 inch. I think it would work if
you could fabricate a short connection between the gasolator and fuel pump
with a slightly shallower angle or allow the gasolator to run into the wind
more than I wanted to. I am using the Andair gasolator which might make a
difference.
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilots Operating Handbook |
Sorry for my slow response. I have the POH that was submitted to the
Western Canada Wing web site, but I haven't posted it to the site yet.
Sorry!
I'll post it as soon as I can, and send a message to the list when it's
ready.
Thanks,
Tedd McHenry
Van's Air Force
Western Canada Wing
tedd(at)vansairforce.org
http://www.vansairforce.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: seat belt cost |
Without disagreeing, if you want the finest harness ever made, at least from
what I've seen/read . . . and are prepared to step up to the plate regarding
$$, check out the Schroth systems at www.icdc.com/~morristec/ Apparently he
makes these configured for each of the Van's series of aircraft.
Rick Jory
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Persyk <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: seat belt cost
>
> I recommend Hooker Harness. I have them in my 6A and after 25 hours of
> flying I can say that they are much more comfortable to wear than Van's
> harness. I find I can tighten the seat belt very firmly across my hips
and
> the wider padding of the Hooker's does not feel uncomfortable which I did
> experience in the half-dozen or so RV's I've flown in with Van's belts.
> Hooker seems to be the gold standard for acro people and are OEMs for
Extra
> and many other acro planes.
>
> Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP O360A1A/Hartzell 25 hours and snowed in
> Hampshire, IL C38
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, December 21, 2000 10:03 AM
> Subject: RV-List: seat belt cost
>
>
> >
> >Listers what are the associated costs for a five point
> >harness in an rv-8 8A? Are there any vendors other
> >than vans with the FAA/TSO markings on the belts?
> >Looking for a good price prefferebly with push button
> >operation. Any of you guys know anyone in the
> >business? Thanks
> > Glenn Williams
> >
> >====
> >Glenn Williams
> >8A
> >A&P
> >N81GW
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilots Operating Handbook |
Okay, I have the POH on our web site in MS Word format. I'll have PDF and
HTML formats eventually, but only the Word format is ready.
http://www.vansairforce.org/POH/
Tedd McHenry
Van's Air Force
Western Canada Wing
tedd(at)vansairforce.org
http://www.vansairforce.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rlluster" <rlluster(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: reaming spar joint attach holes |
You might want to check the bolts with a micrometer. When checking mine, I
found that the area next to the thread on some of the bolts where poorly
machined. The holes are machined in line, but the bolts that are supplied
are off the shelf. They should be aircraft quality, but a quick check with a
micrometer will tell you alot.
You will find that the difference between a slip fit and a no-go is about
.0003.
Richard Luster
RV9A, fuselage
Marysville, Wash
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Japundza <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 6:35 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: reaming spar joint attach holes
>
> I wouldn't ream the holes. When I called Vans about reaming the holes,
> I think Tom wanted to ream me. Apparently they think reaming the holes
> is a no-no.
>
> I used a 2x rivet gun to drive in the bolts and they went in like they
> were going through butter. Like Ed says, the hammer didn't work where
> the rivet gun made it easy.
>
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 64 hours
>
>
> > I found that if I used the rivet gun on a low psi setting
> > to push the
> > bolts through the holes it worked well. At least in my case,
> > the rapid but
> > gentle rapping on the head would push the bolts through when
> > a heavy hammer
> > would not. You might give it a try before reaming the holes,
> > you can always
> > ream.
> >
> > Ed Anderson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Control Cable - Parking Brake |
Norman,
Any solid wire cable with a lock or ratchet should work fine. You'll need to
cut it to length and you need a positive means of securing it in the OFF
position for landing. Your panel aestetics will dictate the style you pick.
I used a cable with a chrome T-handle that locks with a quarter turn (from
ACS). On the valve end I used a wire grip and clevis (from Van's), but a
B-nut should work just as well.
Regards,
Greg Young (Houston - DWH)
RV-6 N6GY systems & wiring
I'm trying to select a cable to operate my parking brake valve. I am looking
at Aircraft Spruce pages 148-149. Once again I find there are too many
choices and I need some guidance from The List.
For starters, there appears to be two types of ends. Threaded ends and solid
wire ends. Am I correct to assume that the pivoting we need at the valve end
would require a solid wire end?
I am leaning towards A-700 with a red knob in the six foot length. It says
it may be shortened as required. (05-13272) Does any one have any thoughts
that might help?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: seat belt cost |
Hooker Harness is good.
----- Original Message -----
From: glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 9:36 AM
Subject: RV-List: seat belt cost
>
> Listers what are the associated costs for a five point
> harness in an rv-8 8A? Are there any vendors other
> than vans with the FAA/TSO markings on the belts?
> Looking for a good price prefferebly with push button
> operation. Any of you guys know anyone in the
> business? Thanks
> Glenn Williams
>
> ====
> Glenn Williams
> 8A
> A&P
> N81GW
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BELTEDAIR(at)AOL.COM |
When using freight Companies it is best to list your shipment as used parts
as this will give you the best rate. Large companies shipping such as Van's
and others that ship large amounts daily get good rates. ABF freight for
example will charge almost double for a non account holder for an identical
package to the same destination. So it behooves the shipper to shop and get
the best rates.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcbraem(at)home.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gascolator - Fuel Pump Installation |
Ross--
The AirFlow Performance pump mounts horizontally as opposed to the
Facet. You can see a picture of Eustace's first mount of this type
(gascolator) in "18 Years of The RV-Ator".
Boyd
N600SS/IO-540
240 hrs.
>
>
> > Have been thinking of installing Van's gascolator and the Air Flow
> > Performance pump both in the wing root space on the 6A. Did the first
> layout
> > of it yesterday and it looks like it is quite possible with some minor
> > changes to the plumbing. Will do a trial run on this over the holidays
> using
> > a template of of .032 and see what happens.
> >
> > Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
>
> Good luck to you. I REALLY tried to get this to work but couldn't find the
> fittings to do it. I wanted to keep the suggested 45 degree angle on the
> fuel pump. I got real close. The run from the fuel pump into the cabin
> stuck up above the wing by about 1/4 to 3/8 inch. I think it would work if
> you could fabricate a short connection between the gasolator and fuel pump
> with a slightly shallower angle or allow the gasolator to run into the wind
> more than I wanted to. I am using the Andair gasolator which might make a
> difference.
>
> Ross
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank and Dorothy <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: seat belt cost |
glenn williams wrote:
> Listers what are the associated costs for a five point
> harness in an rv-8 8A? Are there any vendors other
> than vans with the FAA/TSO markings on the belts?
> Looking for a good price prefferebly with push button
> operation. Any of you guys know anyone in the
> business? Thanks
Have you checked the Yeller Pages? Pacific Aero Harness is who I'm
intending to buy my harnesses from.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcbraem(at)home.com |
| Subject: | Re: Christen seperator |
Scott--
The air/oil separator contains a sliding weight and the ball (valve),
however, the parts catalogue does not mention or list these parts.
Maybe a call to Aviat?
Boyd
>
>
> I have a chance to buy the air/oil seperator for a Christen inverted oil
> system at a good price, but the ball for the check valve is badly corroded
> and pitted. Does anyone know if it can be removed/repaired at a
> reasonable cost, or is the seperator a disposable item (at $300)?
>
> Scott Fink
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcbraem(at)home.com |
| Subject: | Re: Allignment of wings |
By definition, wing incidence is the angle where the chord centerline of
the wing intersects the longitudinal axis of the fuselage. Anything
outboard of that is wing twist. Van's description of the wing (airfoil
23013.5) for the RV-6(A)(?-4) calls for NO twist. So there should be +1
degree incidence at the wing root and +1 degree incidence at the wing
tip.
Boyd
>
>
> I've seen two posts suggesting setting the 1 degree incidence at the tip. Note
> that this may not be optimum for stall characteristics, unless you add stall
> strips inboard (depending on which way the wings twist).
>
> Finn
>
> Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry <bpote(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: seat belt cost |
Cy Galley wrote:
>
>
> Hooker Harness is good.
DOES SOME ONE HAVE THE WEBSITE OR EMAIL OR ADDRESS FOR THESE PEOPLE?
bARRY rV9A WINGS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jim jewell" <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: seat belt cost |
Hi Glen,
Check out for an affordable alternative. Robert
Huntsinger is the proprietor of Pacific Aero Harness his website,<
http://home.att.net/~robh/ >.
His belt system is not shown to be a push button type but is of the quick
release military variety.
He might do a custom push button type ?? It won't hurt to ask.
Jim in kelowna-- NACA vents fitted - Aileron tube bellows seals installed.
Inboard rudder trim thoughts over Christmas.
Best of the Season to all
----- Original Message -----
From: glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 7:36 AM
Subject: RV-List: seat belt cost
>
> Listers what are the associated costs for a five point
> harness in an rv-8 8A? Are there any vendors other
> than vans with the FAA/TSO markings on the belts?
> Looking for a good price prefferebly with push button
> operation. Any of you guys know anyone in the
> business? Thanks
> Glenn Williams
>
> ====
> Glenn Williams
> 8A
> A&P
> N81GW
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
How about some of the drag race belts I used in my dragster? They are all
SFI certified and made to hold up at over 300 MPH impact. Several companies
make them, Deist, RFI, etc.
Greg Tanner
RV-9A Empennage
SER #90186 N80BR RESERVED
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of jim jewell
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: seat belt cost
Hi Glen,
Check out for an affordable alternative. Robert
Huntsinger is the proprietor of Pacific Aero Harness his website,<
http://home.att.net/~robh/ >.
His belt system is not shown to be a push button type but is of the quick
release military variety.
He might do a custom push button type ?? It won't hurt to ask.
Jim in kelowna-- NACA vents fitted - Aileron tube bellows seals installed.
Inboard rudder trim thoughts over Christmas.
Best of the Season to all
----- Original Message -----
From: glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 7:36 AM
Subject: RV-List: seat belt cost
>
> Listers what are the associated costs for a five point
> harness in an rv-8 8A? Are there any vendors other
> than vans with the FAA/TSO markings on the belts?
> Looking for a good price prefferebly with push button
> operation. Any of you guys know anyone in the
> business? Thanks
> Glenn Williams
>
> ====
> Glenn Williams
> 8A
> A&P
> N81GW
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Just wanna touch one.... |
Try the World Wide Wing of Van's Air Force. They have a "white pages" of
folks who are building/flying RVs. If somebody in your neck of the woods
has listed themselves, you can hook up with them. Also, check for your
local EAA chapter.
http://www.metronet.com/~dreeves/rv_white_pages_dev.htm
Jim Bower
St. Louis, MO
RV-6A
Wings
>From: "William B. Culberson" <billc(at)ceebic.org>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: RV List send out
>Subject: RV-List: Just wanna touch one....
>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:35:24 -0600
>
>
>Hello All,
>
>Just received my -8 Empennage Kit and have begun reconfiguring my Model
>A/C shop to build the ultimate model A/C (1:1 scale :) ). I live in
>Mobile, Alabama and would love to Fly/drive somewhere close by and have
>a look at a close to complete or complete -6 or -8 sometime during the
>holidays. Anyone close by?
>
>Bill Culberson
>-8 empennage (countin' rivets)
>
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joe wiza <jwiza1(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Allignment of wings |
True: However one can unintentionally put a negative
twist in the left cordline there by negating the need
to off set the vertical stabilser.
--- bcbraem(at)home.com wrote:
>
> By definition, wing incidence is the angle where the
> chord centerline of
> the wing intersects the longitudinal axis of the
> fuselage. Anything
> outboard of that is wing twist. Van's description
> of the wing (airfoil
> 23013.5) for the RV-6(A)(?-4) calls for NO twist.
> So there should be +1
> degree incidence at the wing root and +1 degree
> incidence at the wing
> tip.
>
> Boyd
> >
>
> >
> > I've seen two posts suggesting setting the 1
> degree incidence at the tip. Note
> > that this may not be optimum for stall
> characteristics, unless you add stall
> > strips inboard (depending on which way the wings
> twist).
> >
> > Finn
> >
> > Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Stewart <bruces(at)shoalhaven.net.au> |
It is a little known fact that Santa has to keep his
pilot's license current in order to make his deliveries
every year, and so the old man wasn't too surprised
when he got a letter from CASA informing him that an
examiner would be appearing shortly to run him through
the usual bi-annual flight review.
A detail of elves was sent to wash and polish the sleigh,
another group was assigned to inspect, service, and repair
all the tack,and a third squad started curry-combing the
reindeer. Santa himself got out his logbook and the rest of
the paperwork and made sure it was all in order.
On the appointed day the examiner arrived, and after the
ritual cup of coffee, he went over Santa's log and the
paperwork, then followed Santa outside. After a meticulous
review of Santa's weight and balance calculations, the examiner
watched Santa do the pre-flight, then followed behind him,
looking closely at everything from the bells on the back of the
sleigh to Rudolph's nose. When he finished, he turned to Santa
and said:
"It looks pretty good so far. Let me get one thing out of my bags
and then we'll take her up".
When the examiner returned, Santa was in the sleigh and ready to taxi.
As the examiner climbed into the sleigh, Santa noticed that he was
carrying a shotgun. "What's that for?" Santa asked. The examiner
looked at him, winked and said: "I really shouldn't tell you this, but,
you're going to lose an engine on takeoff ..."
B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Hicks <EdHicks(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Van's 2001 Pricing |
Hi Listers,
For anyone who is interested, Van's have published their price schedule for
2001 on their website
The text published was as follows:
>>NEW KIT PRICES FOR 2001
For probably the first time ever, we are able to publish our prices for
the
upcoming year before that year is actually here.
Our increased volume has improved our purchasing power and we have
improved
the efficiency of our operation. These advantages have been passed on to
our
customers.
We are pleased that these prices average a very moderate increase. When
you
consider the improvements and increased accuracy and quality we have been
able
to achieve, we think you will agree that the value is better than it has
ever been.
Note that the RV-3 QB wing price is instead of the standard wing. In
other words,
a complete RV-3 kit including the QB wing would cost $13,051.
No price is given for the RV-9A QuickBuild Kit because we dont have one
to sell
yet. A pair of RV-9A kits are in the QB pipeline, serving as prototypes.
When we
have the necessary data about labor times, FAA approval, etc., we will
make the
kit available. Right now, we estimate that the RV-9A QB kit will be on
the market
in June, but we are making no promises. We will make an announcement when
we
are ready to begin taking orders and deposits for RV-9A QuickBuild kits.
Standard Kits that are paid in full by December 31, 2000 will ship at
2000 prices.
QuickBuild Kits on order with a 25% deposit by December 31, 2000 will
ship at 2000 prices.<<
For more info, and all the prices, direct your web browsers at:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/kitprices2001.htm
You guys who haven't ordered yet, note that you can still get a kit at 2000
prices if you order and pay for one in full before the 31st Dec. A late
Christmas present perhaps??!!
Best wishes,
Ed Hicks
RV-6 QB G-BZRV (Fuselage stuff)
Bristol, UK.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan & Patty Krueger <pndkrueg(at)gulfsurf.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Scrap bin search |
>
> Does anyone out there have a piece of .063 x 2" x 2" in their scrap bins?
>
Send me your address and I will cut a chunk out of the remainder of inst panel
#1.
Dan Krueger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: skyforce IIIC GPS |
Mike,
Fried Skyforce.......well that's kinda why I would like some feedback on it.
Yep, I've got the laminated checklists, but the idea of electronic
checklists is appealing, but not at the expense of the Skyforce!
Abilene is about a month sooner in 2001...we're gonna have to hurry!!
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
-6 fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: skyforce IIIC GPS
>
>
> --- Jerry Calvert wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone tried Matt's SkyComm software with the Skyforce IIIC GPS?
> > Sounds
> > like a easy way to add check lists and reference data for crosss
> > country
> > flights to the Skyforce IIIC. It's available on Matronic's site and
> > was
> > just wondering how well the modification works.
> >
> > Jerry Calvert
>
>
> Ummm.... considering the cost of the unit and Matt's warning that he's
> not responsible if the program frys the Skyforce software.....
> _You_ go first and let us know!
>
> :) ;) :)
>
> I find a plastic covered paper checklist works great!
>
> Mike Thompson
> Austin, TX
> -6 N140RV (Reserved)
> Canopy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Burch" <rv6man(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: seat belt cost |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank and Dorothy" <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz>
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: seat belt cost
> Have you checked the Yeller Pages? Pacific Aero Harness is who I'm
> intending to buy my harnesses from.
>
> Frank.
>
> I have Pacific Aero's in my RV6. I have Hookers in My Zlin50. The PA's use
the same
materials as hooker but do not come with any padding. This is not an issue
unless you are
flying real acro.I did fly Sportsman class for two years with them. The PA's
are also alot cheaper.
But if you want the best belts made, there are no substitutes.Hooker.Terry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: seat belt cost |
In a message dated 12/21/2000 3:29:22 PM Central Standard Time,
gtanner(at)bendcable.com writes:
<< How about some of the drag race belts I used in my dragster? They are all
SFI certified and made to hold up at over 300 MPH impact. Several companies
make them, Deist, RFI, etc.
Greg Tanner
RV-9A Empennage
SER #90186 N80BR RESERVED
>>
there heavier then aircraft belts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <pbesing(at)rmi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: reaming spar joint attach holes |
So what happens if you already reamed the holes?? Is my plane going to fall
out of the sky because the bolts are no longer close tolerance and jammed in
there with a hammer?
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Finish Kit (Still)
>
> I wouldn't ream the holes. When I called Vans about reaming the holes,
> I think Tom wanted to ream me. Apparently they think reaming the holes
> is a no-no.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "der_Jagdflieger" <der_Jagdflieger(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | NEW AIR FORCE ONE |
As builders and pilots we share a common enthusiasm
for airplanes of all sizes, particularly RV's in Van's Air
Force. Most of us saw the TV footage last week of the
Secret Service delivering his new, armored, stretched
black limousine to President-elect Bush in Austin.
What few know is they the brass out at Andrews AFB
are not to be outdone. If any listers would like to be sent
a color photo of the new Air Force One, just email a
request to der_Jagdgflieger(at)prodigy.net and I will send
you one attached to an email. Although the .jpg file is
not very large (93.2KB) it would not be appropriate to
send it to the entire list.
NOTE: Please do not just hit reply to this message!
Send your request to der_Jagdgflieger(at)prodigy.net
Howard Walrath RV-6A Flying 165 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Winters" <dtw_rv6(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | fly with the vinyl on? |
Please remove the vinyl from your sheet metal before riveting the pieces
together. This is definitely a poor alternative to the many corrosion
prevention methods. This coating is put on the sheets to protect the
material from shipping and handling damage. You can actually order the same
material from the mill with no coating if you want -- it's even a little
cheaper that way.
The vinyl will give you almost no protection from corrosion, and I would
wager that it will actually promote the collection of moisture in the long
run.
Don Winters
Wings
http://www.geocities.com/dtw_rv6
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of lucky macy
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 6:38 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: fly with the vinyl on?
OK, I see a trend of a reading comprehension problem going on here. The
question had nothing to do with a physical problem pulling the vinyl off,
being lazy, etc. It's actually a technical question as to whether or not
the vinyl would help prevent corrosion on the internal skins if left on when
the builder would otherwise not resort to priming the inside of the skins.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Reiff" <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Reiff oil sump heater installation |
> For those of you who have oil sump heaters, did you strip the paint off
> the sump where the heater bonds to? The directions say to do so, but a
> local mechanic who's installed a few said if the sump is painted right
> you don't need to strip it. I'm just wondering if I need to go through
> the trouble.
The mechanic is right - IF the paint is bonded well to the sump you can put
the heater over the paint. The reason our instructions say to remove the
paint is because we have had a few heaters returned over the years that
failed because the paint came off the sump and, of course, the heater came
with it. It's easy to tell because the paint will still be bonded to the
adhesive on the back of the pad. Naturally the heater will overheat and
fail if any part of it comes loose.
Frankly, I've installed some over the paint and have never had a problem,
including one on my wife's minivan which was put on 9 yrs ago and still
going strong. If the paint looks cracked, peeling, etc, remove it.
Removing the paint removes one variable in the quality of the bond.
When I do remove the paint, here's how I do it. Trace the heater outline on
the sump with a felt tip pen, take off the paint on and inside the line with
a wire brush in a Dremel tool.
Bob Reiff
RV4 #2646
Reiff Preheat Systems
www.execpc.com/reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allignment of wings |
Well, Boyd. That's the whole point: what to do when a wing does have a twist.
Finn
bcbraem(at)home.com wrote:
>
> By definition, wing incidence is the angle where the chord centerline of
> the wing intersects the longitudinal axis of the fuselage. Anything
> outboard of that is wing twist. Van's description of the wing (airfoil
> 23013.5) for the RV-6(A)(?-4) calls for NO twist. So there should be +1
> degree incidence at the wing root and +1 degree incidence at the wing
> tip.
>
> Boyd
> >
> >
> > I've seen two posts suggesting setting the 1 degree incidence at the tip. Note
> > that this may not be optimum for stall characteristics, unless you add stall
> > strips inboard (depending on which way the wings twist).
> >
> > Finn
> >
> > Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633
> >
>
Why pay for something you could get for free?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Magneto Drive Gear |
I am looking for a magneto drive gear that would mate a Bendix S4LN20
(non-impulse) magneto to a Lycoming O-320 engine. Any pointers to where I
could get one...preferably cheap?
Thanks in advance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Reiff" <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Preheater plugged in continuously |
Snipped
>Johnny: thanks, old man. I'm not really sure where this is all headed.
I'm
at 155 hrs since the major, in which we returned the cam to service after
magnaflux and dimensional inspection. The lifters were odd-lot units from
the parts drawer at the overhauler's shop... perhaps a troubling sign in
retrospect. Polishing and cleaning these lifters and assembling them into
the bodies was one of the few parts of the o'haul I helped with myself. I
have used break in oil, later Aero-shell 15w-50, and never gone long periods
between flights (never idle more than 3 weeks, usually fly 1-2x/week) but I
do have an oil sump Reiff heater which I often leave plugged in continuously
in the hangar. Some say this invites condensation and rust in the upper
reaches of the case. I may get to find out!
My engine has really been making more or less the same amount of metal since
the overhaul was completed...
I don't recommend leaving an oil sump heater plugged in continuously unless
the engine is being run every day. The web site FAQ has a discussion of
this, and it's also in the instructions that come with the heater. The
engine manufacturers also don't recommend it. Our oil heater used alone
will raise your oil temp about 80-100 deg F over ambient, and the top end
around 40. Since there is usually a lot of moisture inside your crankcase,
I'm afraid the oil heater will fill the case with warm moist air and
condense on the cooler top end parts. If you use the cylinder heaters or
some other heater that heats the engine uniformly then I think continuous
use is ok, and I do it myself.
On the other hand, if the choice is continuous use of the oil heater, or not
preheating and cold starting the engine, now you're trading a possible
problem for a probable one.
I've been trying to talk Teledyne-Mattituck into collecting some data on
preheater use vs. corrosion they find inside the engines they see. So far no
luck, even though I think it would be a useful contribution to general
aviation to get some actual data to help answer this question, rather than
relying on opinion as we do now. I'm going to talk to some other
overhaulers and see if we can't get it done.
Bob Reiff
RV4 #2646
Reiff Preheat Systems
www.execpc.com/reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
"Re: RV-List: skyforce IIIC GPS" (Dec 21, 5:52pm)
| Subject: | Re: skyforce IIIC GPS |
Oh geeze, be a man! Its a great program; you'll love it! Fried
Skyforce, I don't think so. Seriously, if you've got one of these and a
computer you owe it to yourself to try it out. Having the online
checklist is just too cool. It's also fun to download the screen shots.
Don't be scared... It won't hurt - I promise!
Matt
>--------------
>
>Mike,
>
>Fried Skyforce.......well that's kinda why I would like some feedback on it.
>Yep, I've got the laminated checklists, but the idea of electronic
>checklists is appealing, but not at the expense of the Skyforce!
>
>Abilene is about a month sooner in 2001...we're gonna have to hurry!!
>
>Jerry Calvert
>Edmond Ok
>-6 fuselage
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 8:21 AM
>Subject: Re: RV-List: skyforce IIIC GPS
>
>
>>
>>
>> --- Jerry Calvert wrote:
>> >
>> > Has anyone tried Matt's SkyComm software with the Skyforce IIIC GPS?
>> > Sounds
>> > like a easy way to add check lists and reference data for crosss
>> > country
>> > flights to the Skyforce IIIC. It's available on Matronic's site and
>> > was
>> > just wondering how well the modification works.
>> >
>> > Jerry Calvert
>>
>>
>> Ummm.... considering the cost of the unit and Matt's warning that he's
>> not responsible if the program frys the Skyforce software.....
>> _You_ go first and let us know!
>>
>> :) ;) :)
>>
>> I find a plastic covered paper checklist works great!
>>
>> Mike Thompson
>> Austin, TX
>> -6 N140RV (Reserved)
>> Canopy
>>
>>
>
>
>--------------
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: seat belt cost |
I second the Hooker Harness belts.
I haven't flown with them yet, but the look wider than Van's. I also like
that you can order your own base and trim colors.
John Danielson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)AOL.COM |
I purchased a Brothers P-Z tape labeler last September to do miscellaneous
labeling
like my parts cabinets, etc.
I've been meening to post this earlier but just keep forgetting.
When I started wiring my panel and the other wiring in the plane, I thought
I'd give the labeler a try to label the wires.
This is the way to go. The labler is battery powered so it can go where you
do. It works great. Just type out the label for the wire your on type, print
and cut. I still place a piece of shrink tubing (clear) over the label but I
have found that after putting the label in place go over it with a heat gun
and it fuses the tape to itself. I've had a hard time removing a label after
this process.
John Danielson
Engine installation and finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Christmas Lights |
This evening the winds were calm, the sky clear, the stars were bright and
my wife and I enjoyed a flight around town looking down at the Christmas
lights. Had such a GREAT time we decided to fly over two neighboring towns.
Told approach control of our plans and were treated as royalty. The sights
are just tremendous. I know how Santa must feel as he travels the world
seeing all the decorated houses, streets and businesses in just a few short
days. I've planned this evening for many years as I was building with my best
friend, lover, and wife. We really enjoyed the evening. Just wanted to share
the experience.
Keep pounding the rivets. It's worth it. Terry E. Cole N468TC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
| Subject: | Re: Wire labeling |
Where do you buy this tape labeler?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Wire labeling |
Label makers such as the Brothers can be purchased at Office Max, Staples,
etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: seat belt cost |
> > Hooker Harness is good.
>
>
> DOES SOME ONE HAVE THE WEBSITE OR EMAIL OR ADDRESS FOR THESE PEOPLE?
>
> bARRY rV9A WINGS
Team Rocket sells these and has pictures.
http://www.teamrocketaircraft.com/catalog.htm
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
| Subject: | Re: seat belt cost |
I cannot believe what I am reading.Save money on seat belts ? come on
fellows,if you ever do have an off airport landing the seat belt may rhe
last place you should be trying to save money, do your loved ones a
favor--- buy HOOKER!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RClayp5888(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | First flight question |
Hello Folks,
I am almost reday to test fly my 6A. Does anyone know who the fellow is that
assists you with this event? If so, what is his name and how do I get in
touch with him?
Bob Claypool, Fresno, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: seat belt cost |
>
> I cannot believe what I am reading.Save money on seat belts ? come on
> fellows,if you ever do have an off airport landing the seat belt may rhe
> last place you should be trying to save money, do your loved ones a
> favor--- buy HOOKER!!
>
OK, now what part of your airplane does that NOT apply to? The paint,
maybe. I'm happy for you that you can afford the best of everything. The
rest of us have to use our judgement to put our money where WE think it is
needed to make this very expensive project possible, and yes, safe too,
relative as that is.
Terry
RV-8A fuselage
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: seat belt cost |
In a message dated 12/22/2000 12:57:42 AM Central Standard Time,
tcwatson(at)seanet.com writes:
<< OK, now what part of your airplane does that NOT apply to? The paint,
maybe. I'm happy for you that you can afford the best of everything. The
rest of us have to use our judgement to put our money where WE think it is
needed to make this very expensive project possible, and yes, safe too,
relative as that is.
Terry >>
Well the hooker 5 point harness with military clasp is 299 for 2 of them
though team rocket. Thats hardly alotof money when you consider your
building an airplane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Huey" <clhuey(at)sprynet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: seat belt cost |
The cost on my hooker harness with individual lap pads and the stainless
steel ratchet (not needed but nice for acro) was $260. I also needed a
slight mod on one of the belts....no charge...even shipped it back free. Not
sure how this price compares to other custom belts.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: seat belt cost
>
>
> >
> > I cannot believe what I am reading.Save money on seat belts ? come on
> > fellows,if you ever do have an off airport landing the seat belt may rhe
> > last place you should be trying to save money, do your loved ones a
> > favor--- buy HOOKER!!
> >
> OK, now what part of your airplane does that NOT apply to? The paint,
> maybe. I'm happy for you that you can afford the best of everything. The
> rest of us have to use our judgement to put our money where WE think it is
> needed to make this very expensive project possible, and yes, safe too,
> relative as that is.
>
> Terry
> RV-8A fuselage
> Seattle
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | d.meloche(at)att.net |
| Subject: | fuse jig available |
Listers,
I have just finished with my 6 fuselage jig. It is
located in the philadelphia area and has built five
fuselages. It is extremely accurate with planed cross
beams. The only other person in this area that I know of
who wants it won't need it for 1 1/2 years or so. If
anyone is at that point in the building process and is
intersted please email me off-list. I paid $220 for it
and will release it for same. When you're done there
will be another builder lined up who will take it off
your hands. Essentially a free jig (minus interest costs)
Doug M
d.meloche(at)att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "<Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com> |
(Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id
for" ;
Fri,
22 Dec 2000 08:31:16.-0500(at)matronics.com
12/22/2000 08:27:07 AM
For the Archive:
I came up with a good way to fit your panel last night. I can only speak
for a -6 but I'm sure this would work for others as well. This is real easy
and will absolutely nail the sucker as far as fit without any extra
trimming.
First your top fwd skin is drilled and clecoed on and your F-6110 is
drilled to the longerons but not drilled to the subpanel. Van draws the
cutouts on the instrument panel that are necessary to clear the F-6110 so
you can fit the panel in place. Make the cutouts according to Vans lines.
Now put the panel in place (without the top skin and determine the relative
position being sure to get the 7 degree tilt. This angle is also going to
be a 90 degree angle to the topskin since you will have angle stock
attatching the top skin to the panlel. Clamp scrap angle to the F-6110 as a
stop to set the 7 degrees for the panel. Then let the cutouts on the panel
determine how you will drill the F-6110's to the subpanel. Now the lower
section of your panel fits like a glove.
Get a Flat piece of 1/4 wood sheet and transfer the entire shape of the
panel (big rectangle) to it and cut it out as exactly as you can. Make a
mark on one side to ensure you keep it oriented the same way throughout the
process. Put it in place and drill it to the three tabs on the F-6107 & 8
and to the scrap angle you clamped to the F-6110's. Now you want to
transfer the basic shape of the panel with about a inch gap. I used a 3
ft level since its pretty wide. Hold a pen under the level as you move the
level along the firewall and subpanel flanges which will make a nice
transfer of the shape less the thickness of the pen. Use a jigsaw to cut
out the shape you just drew.
Clecoe the template in place, put the top skin back on and make a mark
along the template on the top skin. Remove the template and put a strip of
clear packing tape on the mark to act as mold release. Now clecoe the
template back and make a nice thick fillet of Bondo between the top skin
(staying on the tape) and the wood template. You want to be sure you fill
all the way forward of the wood template so there are no gaps between wood
and metal. You may have to lay on your back under the panel.
After the Bondo is completely dry, slowly unclecoe the skin and allow the
skin to rise off the bondo working from the longeron to the top. You now
have a plug that will EXACTLY fit your fuselage shape. You need to remove
the bondo overhang that will result on the forward edge. Lay it on your
workbench and using a dual action sander to sand the bondo fair with the
rest of the board. Now take your panel and mate it to the template being
careful to keep the proper orientation. Align it with the lower cutouts,
clamp it in place and trace around the bondo on the FORWARD FACING SIDE.
The bondo will lay exactly against the metal for a perfect template. Use a
cutoff wheel to cut the line and a file to trim away the line you drew.
The Panel you just cut will fit like a tupperware lid with no additional
trimming.
P.S. With exception of the dry time, It takes about as long to do this as
it took to write this message.
Eric Henson
Coconut Creek, Fl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Reiff" <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | RV4 quickbuild kit for sale, maybe |
I'm considering selling my RV4 kit and getting a RV8 quickbuild. The 4 is
completed to about the same stage that the quickbuilds are. I have an 0-360
and CS prop from Van's that I'd keep and use on the 8. The 4 includes all
kits including finishing and has electric flaps and new style pants plus the
old ones, and other stuff like airbox, baffle kit, etc.
Does anyone have any idea if I'll be able to sell the 4, or is there no
interest in them since the 8 came out. I would not do it if I have to give
away the 4, I'd want to at least get the kit cost out of it.
Any one got any input on this?
Thanks.
Bob Reiff
Reiff Preheat Systems
www.execpc.com/reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | earl fortner <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First flight question |
I think mike seiger. Contact Vans for number.
RClayp5888(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
>
> Hello Folks,
>
> I am almost reday to test fly my 6A. Does anyone know who the fellow is that
> assists you with this event? If so, what is his name and how do I get in
> touch with him?
> Bob Claypool, Fresno, CA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "<Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com> |
(Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id
for" ;
Fri,
22 Dec 2000 08:58:52.-0500(at)matronics.com
12/22/2000 08:54:44 AM
Anyone using a single fuel gauge that shows both tanks and uses Van's old
style senders?
Thanks in advance
Eric Henson
Panel Toys... Dear Santa........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: skyforce IIIC GPS |
--- Jerry Calvert wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> Fried Skyforce.......well that's kinda why I would like some feedback
> on it.
> Yep, I've got the laminated checklists, but the idea of electronic
> checklists is appealing, but not at the expense of the Skyforce!
>
> Abilene is about a month sooner in 2001...we're gonna have to hurry!!
>
> Jerry Calvert
> Edmond Ok
> -6 fuselage
What, you're not gonna make it?
:)
Finished my first set of rear canopy skirts yesterday. I say first set
because I'm not sure if they'll be the final set or not. A little
adjusting is in order...
Instrument panel next (gotta dig out all those panel items I've been
squireling away for two years), hang the engine in February. Surely
it's a walk in the park from there!
:)
- Mike
====
Michael E. Thompson (Grobdriver(at)yahoo.com)
Austin, TX, USA
RV-6 in progress, N140RV (Reserved)
EX-AX1 Sub Hunter, P-3 (B/B-TACMOD/C) Orion Aircrew,
PP-G,ASEL, Motorglider Driver and Unlimited Air Race Nut!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: seat belt cost |
I believe that if you are getting your seats from DJ at Cleaveland, Hooker
will coordinate using strap covers supplied in the same material. We flew
into FEP and visited Hooker. My wife picked out some colors from their wide
selection. We dealt with Scott McPhillips hoohar(at)mwci.net or 815 233 5478.
Nice looking and safe.
Dennis Persyk snowed in at C38
-----Original Message-----
From: JDaniel343(at)AOL.COM <JDaniel343(at)AOL.COM>
Date: Thursday, December 21, 2000 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: seat belt cost
>
>I second the Hooker Harness belts.
>I haven't flown with them yet, but the look wider than Van's. I also like
>that you can order your own base and trim colors.
>
>John Danielson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Fuel Gauge |
Eric,
Electronics International (EI) sells a single gauge that workd off
resistance style sending units. It reads left/right/both in LED and
digital. It also has some useful alarm features. Vans's and Aircraft
Spruce sells it. When ordering it you need to tell them that you want the
resistance reading model as it is exactly the same gauge as their
capacitance unit externally.
Mike Robertson
Rv-8A N809Rs
12.9 Hours
>
>Anyone using a single fuel gauge that shows both tanks and uses Van's old
>style senders?
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Eric Henson
>Panel Toys... Dear Santa........
>
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Sundberg" <david_fs(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | RE: RV6-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/21/00 |
Gerard,
This is the link to the POH I think you are referring to:
http://www.mstewart.net/michael/rv/rvhome.htm
Dave
Wasn't there someone or someplace that had developed an "aircraft-pilot
operation handbook" for the RV-4 and/or RV-6. It seems to me I either read
something via E-mail or otherwise regarding the POH. Any hints of that in
your travels?
Thanks
Gerard Pearson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dual Fuel Gauge |
> Anyone using a single fuel gauge that shows both tanks and uses Van's old
> style senders?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Eric Henson
> Panel Toys... Dear Santa........
Yes, the Electronics International FL-2R does this quite nicely,
approximately $350. Has LED displays of both tanks separately, plus an LCD
gallon indication in the center with a switch that directs it to read
gallons left, right, or both. A very slick product!
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, painting
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: seat belt cost |
> How about some of the drag race belts I used in my dragster? They are all
> SFI certified and made to hold up at over 300 MPH impact. Several
companies
> make them, Deist, RFI, etc.
Yeah but they're pretty much all bigger bulkier and heavier than the
aircraft belts.
I have the Schroth harnesses (www.icdc.com/~morristec). Really like them.
They are FAA TSO approved and favored by the glider guys for their light
weight and ease of use. But the original poster did express some concerns
about cost. These are not the way to go if you want to economize.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~175 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Fuel Gauge |
Yes I do. I use the Electronics International dual gauge with Van's Stewart
Warner sending units. I have found the combination to be very accurate and
E.I. is the best company you could ever do business with. Feel free to
contact me for more details.
John Furey
RV6A O-360 55hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Bergh" <dbergh(at)micron.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 quickbuild kit for sale, maybe |
Hi Bob,
I know a gentleman that may be interested depending on you location ( i.e:
anywhere near Idaho) and price.
Dave Bergh
RV-6 wings
Mountain Home ,ID
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 6:54 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV4 quickbuild kit for sale, maybe
>
> I'm considering selling my RV4 kit and getting a RV8 quickbuild. The 4 is
> completed to about the same stage that the quickbuilds are. I have an
0-360
> and CS prop from Van's that I'd keep and use on the 8. The 4 includes all
> kits including finishing and has electric flaps and new style pants plus
the
> old ones, and other stuff like airbox, baffle kit, etc.
>
> Does anyone have any idea if I'll be able to sell the 4, or is there no
> interest in them since the 8 came out. I would not do it if I have to
give
> away the 4, I'd want to at least get the kit cost out of it.
>
> Any one got any input on this?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bob Reiff
> Reiff Preheat Systems
> www.execpc.com/reiff
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV4 quickbuild kit for sale, maybe |
> I'm considering selling my RV4 kit and getting a RV8 quickbuild. The 4 is
> completed to about the same stage that the quickbuilds are. I have an
0-360
> and CS prop from Van's that I'd keep and use on the 8. The 4 includes all
> kits including finishing and has electric flaps and new style pants plus
the
> old ones, and other stuff like airbox, baffle kit, etc.
>
> Does anyone have any idea if I'll be able to sell the 4, or is there no
> interest in them since the 8 came out. I would not do it if I have to
give
> away the 4, I'd want to at least get the kit cost out of it.
>
> Any one got any input on this?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bob Reiff
> Reiff Preheat Systems
> www.execpc.com/reiff
Bob,
As one who watches this kind of stuff (always thinking about starting
another project), I think you should be able to get your kit cost back, but
that would be about all. Most partially completed kits end up going for less
than the cost of the kit. Yours is further along and also complete, that
seems to help. The workmanship (or perception on the part of the buyer
thereof) of course highly influences this. The RV-4 is an excellent airplane
and is still highly desireable, but as you point out much of the interest
lately has been steered toward the RV-8 and RV-9 families.
I know you'd think that all that labor would count for something, but the
market doesn't seem to place much value on it. Of course you know that the
minute you certify and fly the plan it is worth MUCH more, usually more than
you have into it. Have you considered finishing it just for financial
reasons?
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, painting
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Fuel Gauge |
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Friday, December 22, 2000 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Dual Fuel Gauge
>
>Eric,
>
>Electronics International (EI) sells a single gauge that workd off
>resistance style sending units. It reads left/right/both in LED and
>digital. It also has some useful alarm features. Vans's and Aircraft
>Spruce sells it. When ordering it you need to tell them that you want the
>resistance reading model as it is exactly the same gauge as their
>capacitance unit externally.
>
>Mike Robertson
>Rv-8A N809Rs
>12.9 Hours
>
Mike,
I am interested in that gauge. I don't trust fuel gauges in general, but
the extremely non-linear level function of the RV tank adds additional
complications. I have the SW resistive senders.
1) How does the programming function deal with the first 2-3 gallons of
burnoff causing no decline in apparent fuel level?
2) Does the algorithm handle the two or three inflection points in the fuel
level Vs gallons remaining curve?
Thanks.
Dennis Persyk N600DP 25 hours snowed in at C38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Reiff" <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Remote preheater switch |
>Has anyone ever come up with a way to remotely turn on the thing
[preheater] in a hangar
December 17, 2000 - December 22, 2000
RV-Archive.digest.vol-jw