up throwing out stuff I won't use.  I have heavier battery wire and scat 
      tubing so all I'd be using is the smaller gauge wire and terminals.  What 
      lengths and gauges should I order to get started.  I'm building a 6 with 
      day/night VFR panel.  Has anyone kept track of what they used?  Thanks in 
      advance.
      
      Larry Gagnon
      Kitfox N102LG
      RV6  Finishing Kit  N6LG (reserved)
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
BSEckstein(at)cs.com
Date: 
Apr 13, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Whelen strobe connectors question
      
      
      Molex connectors come in either 0.062" or 0.093" pin sizes.  The small ones 
      are good for low power connections (trim, nav lights) and the big one's I've 
      used for Pitot heat, Landing light and Taxi light.  The Whelan strobe power 
      supply pin (Amp) looks very similar, but is different.  My good quality Molex 
      type crimper works fine with the Molex pins, and marginal with the Amp pins.  
      The strobe and the power supply require the use of the Amp pins.  In between, 
      where the wings attach, I've used the Molex.  When I started wiring the 
      plane, I bought a bunch of different connectors i.e. 2-pin, 4-pin, 6-pin...  
      and the associated pins from Allied.  I'm glad I did.  I've been able to make 
      every connection needed quickly and professionally.
      
      Go to www.allied.avnet.com and search on Molex.  Buy your crimp tool from Bob 
      Nuckolls.
      
      Good Luck
      Brian Eckstein
      6A Final Assembly
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
RGray67968(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 13, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Wiring RV 6
      
      
      Larry,
             I bought the kit.............right at $200. Like you, d/n VFR. I used 
      every inch of wire from the kit plus have purchased quite a bit 
      more..........and I've yet to run the wires out to the wing tips or the tail 
      yet. I've also used every single ring connector. The pre-made battery and 
      solenoid cables were also very handy..........save me from running around to 
      make up my own. Although I DID NOT follow the plans (snipped every tie wrap 
      from the basic harness and just used the wire) that came with the 
      kit.............they were still VERY handy to give me an education in how the 
      basics are done. If I were doing it again I would probably still buy the kit 
      to get me started!
      Rick Gray RV6 (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 13, 2001
From: 
Vanremog(at)AOL.COM
Subject: 
Re: Whelen strobe connectors question
      
      
      In a message dated Fri, 13 Apr 2001  6:46:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, czechsix(at)juno.com
      writes:
      
      
      Guys,
      
      I was looking through the archives and found a message stating that the
      Whelen strobe system "kit from Vans comes with a bunch of AMPCPS-3
      connectors."  Randy Lervold posted a related message stating "Whelen uses
      the AMP Mate-N-Lok series connectors.........Molex brand connectors
      crimp the same way but are not compatible with the Mate-N-Lock connectors
      or pins at all.  You will likely encounter, or want to use, Molex
      connectors elsewhere in the plane."
      
      Ok, I'm confused.  In Van's catalog under the section for Replacement
      parts for strobe systems, they list "Molex Connectors" for the power
      supply / cable connection.  No reference to any type of AMP connector. 
      Does this mean that the power supply uses a Molex connector and the
      strobe itself uses an AMP connector?  Does anyone have pictures on a
      webpage of these connectors?  Is the Molex or the AMP better for
      all-around use on the airframe?>>
      
      Randy is right and Van's is wrong.  The AMP connectors are used on the Whelen systems.
      People often confuse without meaning to and Van's has used the term Molex
      generically here (refering to the white nylon housing type cheapie crimp
      pin connector, kind of like calling all tissues Kleenex). 
      
      -GV
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ross Scroggs" <rmscroggs(at)att.net>
Subject: 
Re: RV-4 Horizontal Stab. Question
Date: 
Apr 13, 2001
      
      
      Thanks to everyone who responded.  I finally got a response from Van's so
      all of my parts
      have now been ordered.
      
      Thanks again,
      
      Ross Scroggs
      Conyers, GA
      RV-4 Emp.
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com>
      Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 8:55 AM
      Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Horizontal Stab. Question
      
      
      >
      >
      > Hi Ross,
      >
      > I received my HS-412 hinge fittings undrilled.  I remember this because
      > when I started my -4 (serial #2981), nothing was drilled.  Recently, I had
      > to replace an aileron hinge bracket for similar reasons.  I was able to
      > order from Van's an undrilled bracket.  It was not immediately apparent to
      > the people at Van's that such a part was available, but somebody recalled
      > its availability and helped me out.  You may have similar luck for your
      > problem.  If not, the HS-412 is a simple part and could be fabricated from
      > sheet stock.  The 4130 steel bends much better than aluminum.
      >
      > Dean
      > RV-4
      > Arlington, MA
      > Moving it to the airport
      >
      >
      > |--------+---------------------------------->
      > |        |          "Ross Scroggs"          |
      > |        |               |
      > |        |          Sent by:                |
      > |        |          owner-rv-list-server@mat|
      > |        |          ronics.com              |
      > |        |                                  |
      > |        |                                  |
      > |        |          04/12/01 08:59 PM       |
      > |        |          Please respond to       |
      > |        |          rv-list                 |
      > |        |                                  |
      > |--------+---------------------------------->
      >   |
      |
      >   |       To:     
      |
      >   |       cc:
      |
      >   |       bcc:
      |
      >   |       Subject:     RV-List: RV-4 Horizontal Stab. Question
      |
      >
      >
      > I need some help.
      >
      > I'm having to replace the  HS-412 hinge fitting on my HS due to it not
      > being
      > properly aligned with the center line of the HS rear spar.  When a HS-412
      > fitting
      > is received, is it already drilled for the rivets that attach it to
      > the spar?  I need to be able to slightly move it on the spar to properly
      > align it with the other fittings.
      >     I sent a question to Van's but I guess all of the technical people are
      > at Sun-N-Fun.  I'd like to order parts but need an answer on the HS-412
      > first.
      >     If anybody can remember how they received their part, please let me
      > know.
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      > Ross Scroggs
      > Conyers, Ga.
      > RV-4, Empenage started by somebody else
      >
      >
      > **** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of
      > Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain
      > confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee
      > only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not
      > the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible.****
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 13, 2001
From: 
John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
Subject: 
Contact with Fred Kunkel?
      
      
      I've sent Fred a few e-mails, and haven't heard from him.  Fred, if you see this,
      could you please email me at jwlawson(at)hargray.com?  Or, if anyone's been in contact
      with him, would they let him know I'd like to get in touch with him?  Thanks!
      
      John
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 13, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Blast tubes
      
      
      In a message dated 04/13/2001 7:22:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
      mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes:
      
      
      > .  And the tubes to the vacumn and fuel pumps 
      > are luxury items.  
      
      Maybe,  but after my O-320 tried to quit on me at altitude the first warm day 
      of spring, my luxury blast tube to the fuel pump is about to get larger.
      
      Bill Boyd
      RV-6A O-320/Sensenich FP
      Hop-Along Air Field, 12VA
      Clifton Forge, VA
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Daniel Estrada F." <dani_estrada(at)infosel.net.mx>
Subject: 
TEST...
Date: 
Apr 13, 2001
      
      
      Test
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: 
Apr 13, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Wiring RV 6
      
      
      Buy Van's wiring kit. It's worth it.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 14, 2001
From: 
John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
Subject: 
Contact w/Fred :-)
      
      
      To the assembled multitudes:
      
      I posted a note yesterday asking Fred Kunkel to get in touch with me.  I hope I
      didn't give any wrong impressions - he's doing just fine, we just got our wires
      crossed a bit.  He continues to give 'way excellent service on tools, I (STILL)
      highly recommend him (especially for used tools).
      
      Semper Fi
      John
      RV-6 (wings...waylaid by work again...still plugging away on the control surfaces)
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"BERNIE KERR" <KERRJB(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: 
Re: 4 rotary powered RV's at SnF
Date: 
Apr 13, 2001
      
      
      >
      > BTW, Pat and I were listening to a conversation between one of the
      > owners and a builder.  The fuel consumption on his 13B is about
      > 4gal/hour at idle to 14 gal/hour at full power.  I'm not sure if that's
      > good or bad.  Just a number I heard.
      >
      > Jim Sears in KY
      > RV-6A N198JS
      >
      >
      Hi Jim,
      
      I think that all the folks flying rotary's now started before Tracy came on
      the scene, therefore they are all considerably different. Tracy is starting
      to manufacture components such as reduction drives, electronic fuel
      controls, etc. so we are likely to start seeing more similiar installations.
      You will always have differences such as are seen in lycoming installations
      today. Oil coolers are a prime example of variability in todays
      installations.
      
      The exhaust is a problem because it is hot and noisy, but a big pipe also
      hangs out of piper malibus and Pilatluses. This does not necessarily detract
      from the esthetics. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
      
      Everett Hatch flew his rotary RV4 block to block formation with Van in his
      160 HP  lycoming and consumed the same amount of fuel. The BSFC may be a
      little worse on the rotary, but Everett had a pretty efficient radiator
      system and it is probable to make less drag with water cooling.
      
      Bernie Kerr, 160 HP lycoming in 6A
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 14, 2001
Subject: 
Re: RV6-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 04/13/01
      
      
      Does anyone know the positon of the rear seats of this new four placer-facing 
      forward or toward the rear? Bob
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 14, 2001
From: 
John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
Subject: 
Question re:  machine screw sizes
      
      
      OK, another crayon-level question.  When I look at the size of a machine screw
      and it says, say, 10-32, what does that mean?
      
      Semper Fi
      John
      RV-6 (a-workin' on them parts of the wings that flop around when the pilot moves
      the stick)
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com>
Subject: 
Question re:  machine screw sizes
Date: 
Apr 14, 2001
      
      
      It's a #10 size in diameter and 32 threads per inch.
      
      Greg
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Lawson
      Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 6:33 PM
      Subject: RV-List: Question re: machine screw sizes
      
      
      OK, another crayon-level question.  When I look at the size of a machine
      screw and it says, say, 10-32, what does that mean?
      
      Semper Fi
      John
      RV-6 (a-workin' on them parts of the wings that flop around when the pilot
      moves the stick)
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"alex strickland" <alexs737(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Executive Hangar @ Frontrange in Denver
Date: 
Apr 14, 2001
      
      
      I will have a beautiful executive hangar available for space to rent at 
      Frontrange Airport just east of Denver sometime in June.  It is heated with 
      a bi-fold door and bathroom.  Anyone interested?
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 14, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Question re:  machine screw sizes
      
      
      The first no. is the hole size. Each number is referrs to a hole size in 
      decimals and NOT parts of an inche! If you have a Cleveland or Avery Cat it 
      will show you exactly what numbers are equal to in decimals. All that 
      (decimals) really does not matter as long as you know that the first number 
      is the hole size. The last number is the threads per inch-double check me on 
      the last number. Bob
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 14, 2001
From: 
Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: 
Re: RV-4 CANOPY REPLACEMENT
      
      
      >
      >Hi Everyone
      >            This is my first post on the list and I was hoping it could have
      >been in better circonstances.I went to the airport (Actually a farm
      >strip)today to start getting my RV-4 ready for another flying season and
      >since my last visit some vandals managed to break my canopy.
      >            Since I bought the airplane as an already flying RV-4,I have only
      >a basic idea of the work involved in replacing my canopy.So I have a few
      >questions for any RV-4s owners
      >
      >1.-How much will a new canopy cost ?
      >
      
      
      Bruno,
      
      Ouch!!  Sorry to read about your troubles.  You can price parts 
      easily from Van's web site:
      
      <http://www.vansaircraft.com/>
      
      Go to to Online Shopping, Accessories Catalog, and then look down a 
      few inches from the top to find a link "the list".  That will give 
      you a text file with all the part numbers, descriptions and prices. 
      I searched that list for canopy, and found:
      
      C-401                 GRAY TINT PLEX CANOPY      $529.23 
      C-401 CLEAR           CLEAR CANOPY BUBBLE        $513.85
      
      I can't help you on the other questions, as I'm building an RV-8. 
      Given that you didn't do it the first time, you might want to find a 
      local builder who has already done his canopy and pay him to do 
      yours, or at least get him to help you.  I don't think that will get 
      you in trouble with Transport Canada, but you might want to confirm 
      with the Dorval regional office.  If they give you a hard time, 
      contact me and I'll put you in touch with the headquarters guy in 
      charge of amateur built aircraft issues.  They are currently working 
      on an update to the regulations that should legalize builder 
      assistance.  It looks like the updated regulations will take the very 
      practical view that it is safer to allow builders to contract out 
      complex work than force them to do it just to meet the 51% rule.  I 
      doubt they will give you grief if someone rebuilds your canopy for 
      you.
      
      Good luck,
      -- 
      Kevin Horton         RV-8 (finishing kit)
      Ottawa, Canada
      http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: 
Re: Question re:  machine screw sizes
Date: 
Apr 14, 2001
      
      
      10 is the Diameter- Approximately 3/16"     32 is the number of threads per
      inch.
      
      Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "John Lawson" <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
      Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 8:32 PM
      Subject: RV-List: Question re: machine screw sizes
      
      
      >
      > OK, another crayon-level question.  When I look at the size of a machine
      screw and it says, say, 10-32, what does that mean?
      >
      > Semper Fi
      > John
      > RV-6 (a-workin' on them parts of the wings that flop around when the pilot
      moves the stick)
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: 
Re: Question re:  machine screw sizes
Date: 
Apr 14, 2001
      
      
      # 10 comes from the size of a # 10 number drill and is NOT decimal.
      
      Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM>
      Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 8:10 PM
      Subject: Re: RV-List: Question re: machine screw sizes
      
      
      >
      > The first no. is the hole size. Each number is referrs to a hole size in
      > decimals and NOT parts of an inche! If you have a Cleveland or Avery Cat
      it
      > will show you exactly what numbers are equal to in decimals. All that
      > (decimals) really does not matter as long as you know that the first
      number
      > is the hole size. The last number is the threads per inch-double check me
      on
      > the last number. Bob
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: 
Apr 14, 2001
             "RV-List: RV-4 CANOPY REPLACEMENT" (Apr 14,  5:54pm)
Subject: 
Re: (Miss-use of the DNA flag?) RV-4 CANOPY REPLACEMENT
      
      
      >--------------
      >
      >Hi Everyone
      >           This is my first post on the list and I was hoping it could have
      >been in better circonstances.I went to the airport (Actually a farm
      >strip)today to start getting my RV-4 ready for another flying season and
      >since my last visit some vandals managed to break my canopy.
      >           Since I bought the airplane as an already flying RV-4,I have only
      >a basic idea of the work involved in replacing my canopy.So I have a few
      >questions for any RV-4s owners
      >
      >1.-How much will a new canopy cost ?
      >
      >2.-Any special advise on do's and don'ts
      >
      >3.-Anyone knows of any good shops selling new canopies (In eastern
      >Canada/USA will be better)
      >
      >4.-Anyone with a good web site so I can see how it is done
      >
      >You may e-mail me if you prefered
      >
      >Thanks in advance for any imputs you may provide
      >
      >Bruno Dionne
      >Grounded RV-4 CG-DBH (For now )
      >Bellefeuille Quebec Canada
      >E-mail# fo320(at)sympatico.ca
      >
      >Do_ not_ archive
      >--------------
      
      
      Bruno,
      
      I'm curious why you marked this message with the DNA flag?  This is
      material that should have gone into the Archive.
      
      Listers at Large,
      
      I think I am going to disable the DNA feature soon since so many people
      have been miss-using it.  The continued miss-use really bothers me for some
      reason.  I know of at least one person (on a different List) that
      actually has the DNA flag in his .signature file so that no matter what
      he posts, it never gets archived.  Remember that even the replies will
      not be archived unless the replyer removes the DNA flag.
      
      Anyway, sorry to be a bummer but dang-it, this bugs me.  Comments?
      
      Matt
      
      PS - I'm definately not picking on you, Bruno!  I just used you as a
      typical example.
      
      
      -- 
      
      
      Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
      925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
      http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
      
        Great minds discuss ideas,
           Average minds discuss events,
              Small minds discuss people...
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 14, 2001
From: 
John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Powder Coat Removal
      
      
      To those that wish to remove Vans Powder coat on gear
      legs,motor mount etc..There is a process that I just
      used from a  outfit here in Nashville,Tn called Strip Masters..
      They use very low pressure(30#) or less with plastic chips..
      They are doing  commercial aircraft paint removal on special
      surface's..They did motor mount,gear legs  100.00
      
                                   Strip Masters
                                   Nashville,tn
                                  615-255-4850
                                 1-800-356-8205
      
                           John McMahon
                                           Floor skins
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
From: 
Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: 
Re: (Miss-use of the DNA flag?) RV-4 CANOPY REPLACEMENT
      
      
      >>Listers at Large,
      
      >>I think I am going to disable the DNA feature soon since so many >>people have
      been miss-using it.
      
      
      Matt;
      
      I think that with all the warnings (requests) to keep messages short and not clutter
      the archive
      that people tend to err on the side of d* no* archiv* to be kind to your server.
      Also it is
      sometimes difficult to decide wheather the information a person thinks they are
      giving in a response
      is valuable, or if it is just a quick offhand reply or thought as opposed to a
      well researched
      answer to the problem or question of the original poster. As to the original poster
      not archiving
      their post, they may feel that it is their own small personal problem without realising
      that their
      question may be the same one someone else had but didn't verbalise or that it is
      of interest to
      others.
      I have responded to the list a few times with information I thought might be usefull
      to the thread
      and used the DNA feature because I didn't think my lowly thoughts were of general
      interest. I have
      on a couple of occasions received replys such as yours asking why I did that.
      In all of my cases it was out of ignorance and when requested reposted without
      the DNA message.
      The ones that particularly bug me are those that repeat the whole of the original
      message or even
      part of the whole thread, or those that go on forever chasing an obvious joke without
      the DNA.
      My two cents on the subject Matt and we do appreciate this forum even if it is
      miss-used from time
      to time.
      
      Bob McC
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 14, 2001
From: 
Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org>
Subject: 
Re: (Miss-use of the DNA flag?) RV-4 CANOPY REPLACEMENT
      
      
      Matt:
      
      > Anyway, sorry to be a bummer but dang-it, this bugs me.  Comments?
      
      I have to admin that I've tended to take the approach of "if in doubt,
      DNA it."  
      
      I seem to recall that the original purpose of the DNA feature was to allow
      chatter on the list without filling up the archive with it.  Was that how
      it went?  But that leaves the question:  what is "chatter?"  Is this
      thread, for example, chatter?  It's not about RV building or flying at
      all, it's just a meta discussion about the list itself.  I suppose I don't
      quite consider that "chatter," but I'm not sure it needs to be in the
      archive, either.
      
      Before giving up on the DNA feature, perhaps you can clarify how you
      intended it to be used.  Is it covered in your automatic posts about list
      ettiquette?
      
      Tedd McHenry
      Surrey, BC
      -6
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 14, 2001
From: 
Terry Williams <7ecapilot(at)home.com>
Subject: 
Jabiru track record
      
      
      Jabiru may not have much of a track record in the U.S., but they have been
      producing Australian-certified airplanes since '91 and have been producing
      4-stroke Australian-certified aircraft engines since '93. Their current
      line includes an 80 and 120 hp 4 stroke, direct drive engines. They have
      been flying the 80hp engine in their own airplane (Jabiru LSA 55/2K) since
      '95. Not quite the track record of Lycoming, but seems they have garnered
      support from the Oz government. I am not sure whose government you trust
      more, ours or theirs, but it seems that Jabiru has gone to some lengths to
      create a good product.
      
      That said, I think that unless Van's comes up with a firewall forward kit
      for the Jabiru, then your engine installation will be just as problematic
      as a 13B or Chevy.
      
      tw
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: 
rv-8 video
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
      
      
      I've got the first episode encoded( from the ground up) but need to put it
      where those interested can get at it. Its 21 meg and in wmv (windows media).
      Any ideas?? Also the big version is about 80 meg...
      
      
      Steven DiNieri
      Niagara Falls, New York
      RV-6A,  P28A-160
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: 
Jabiru track record and vacuum pumps
Date: 
- - - , 20- 
      
      
      >That said, I think that unless Van's comes up with a firewall forward 
      >kit for the Jabiru, then your engine installation will be just as 
      >problematic as a 13B or Chevy.
      
      The advantage we have with the Jabiru is that the manufacurers of 
      this new engine are looking at the RV for it's intended use.  They 
      already have mounts and firewall forward kits for other homebuilts.  
      I'm sure they'll follow through with a mount and kit for the RVs as 
      well.  I'm betting they don't have to, if Van really is looking at the 
      Jabiru for his installations.
      
      There is one thing we did miss during all of this discussion.  No one 
      has mentioned provisions for a vacuum pump.  Many of us, if not 
      most, use them.  I sent notes to two of the dealers to pose the 
      question.  Although I'm not in the market for one, right now, I'd like to 
      know the engine will meet all of our needs.  
      
      Jim Sears in KY
      RV-6A N198JS
      
          
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Ewinne(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
Subject: 
10-32 screws
      
      
      
      
      John- 10-32 is the size of the screw (#10) and the thread pitch (32). You
      might want to get a bolt gauge or a screw gauge from the local hardware store
      to check the pieces you use when you're confused about sizes when you're
      doing assembly work. I think Avery might sell these, also.
      
      Ed Winne
      RV-9A
      Palmyra PA
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Subject: 
Re: Jabiru track record and vacuum pumps
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
      
      
      >
      
      
      >
      > There is one thing we did miss during all of this discussion.  No one
      > has mentioned provisions for a vacuum pump.  Many of us, if not
      > most, use them.
      
      
      Jim,
      
      I'm not sure if you were referring to the Jabiru, but from their web site,
      
      "For those owners wanting to fit vacuum instruments to their aircraft the
      Jabiru engine design includes a vacuum pump drive, direct mounted through a
      coupling on the rear of the crankshaft."
      
      Larry Pardue
      Carlsbad, NM
      
      RV-6 N441LP Flying
      http://www.carlsbadnm.com/index.htm
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
From: 
John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
Subject: 
Thanks! on question re:  machine screw sizes
      
      
      Thanks to all who responded, much appreciated!  There are so many doggone ways
      to describe and designate the sizes and identification of screws, rivets, nuts,
      bolts, etc....whew.
      
      Semper Fi
      John
      
      RV-6 (wings...plugging away at the control surfaces)
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
From: 
Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: 
Re: Jabiru track record
      
      
      >
      >Jabiru may not have much of a track record in the U.S., but they have been
      >producing Australian-certified airplanes since '91 and have been producing
      >4-stroke Australian-certified aircraft engines since '93. Their current
      >line includes an 80 and 120 hp 4 stroke, direct drive engines. They have
      >been flying the 80hp engine in their own airplane (Jabiru LSA 55/2K) since
      >'95. Not quite the track record of Lycoming, but seems they have garnered
      >support from the Oz government. I am not sure whose government you trust
      >more, ours or theirs, but it seems that Jabiru has gone to some lengths to
      >create a good product.
      >
      >That said, I think that unless Van's comes up with a firewall forward kit
      >for the Jabiru, then your engine installation will be just as problematic
      >as a 13B or Chevy.
      >
      >tw
      >
      
      Terry,
      
      I don't think the concern is Jabiru's track record, but more the lack 
      of track record on the engine in question (180 hp 8 cylinder model). 
      Each engine can have its own specific problems.  I work in the type 
      certification world, and I have seen several examples where major 
      manufacturers have had lots of teething pains on new engine models. 
      They eventually get it sorted out, but I wouldn't be an early buyer 
      of a new model, expecially for a single-engine aircraft.
      -- 
      Kevin Horton         RV-8 (finishing kit)
      Ottawa, Canada
      http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
From: 
pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com
Subject: 
Rear Spar Dimple/Countersink ?????
      
      
      Happy Easter Listers,
      Finally getting close to actually setting some rivets in my wing construction.
      In completing the 
      wing box, I plan to dimple the rear spar bottom flange (for skin) exept at the
      intersections of 
      the ribs where I plan to countersink for the skin dimple.  Does this sound ok?
      Thanks in advance!
      Jack
      DSM
      RV8, wings
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Sam Cherroff" <sam(at)videoassist.com>
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
Subject: 
Re: rv-8 video
      
      
      Steve,
      We're only using about 10 megs of the 100megs that our webserver 
      alots us.  If the list members can keep it cool, I'm willing to post two 
      episodes a week there in rotation.
      
      I'll contact you off-list about getting the file.
      
      --Sam
      
      
      > 
      > 
      > I've got the first episode encoded( from the ground up) but need to put it
      > where those interested can get at it. Its 21 meg and in wmv (windows media).
      > Any ideas?? Also the big version is about 80 meg...
      > 
      > 
      > Steven DiNieri
      > Niagara Falls, New York
      > RV-6A,  P28A-160
      > 
      > 
      >
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
         Cinelogic inc.
         (818)772-4777
         fax  772-4733
         sam(at)videoassist.com
         http://www.videoassist.com
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net>
Subject: 
Rear Spar Dimple/Countersink ?????
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
      
      
      This is what I will do also. I guess it is possible to dimple the rib, rear
      spar flange and skin but since I assembled the box without dimpling any of
      these parts I have no choice.
      
      I can't see any reasons why a countersink of the rear spar at the rib
      intersections wouldn't work. If you're uncomfortable with the countersink,
      you can dimple the skin and carefully remove the 'backside' of the dimple
      with a dremel tool or a small file.
      
      Regards,
      Are
      RV-8 Wings
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
      pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com
      Sent: April 15, 2001 10:20 AM
      Subject: RV-List: Rear Spar Dimple/Countersink ?????
      
      
      Happy Easter Listers,
      Finally getting close to actually setting some rivets in my wing
      construction.  In completing the
      wing box, I plan to dimple the rear spar bottom flange (for skin) exept at
      the intersections of
      the ribs where I plan to countersink for the skin dimple.  Does this sound
      ok?  Thanks in advance!
      Jack
      DSM
      RV8, wings
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: 
Re: Jabiru track record
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
      
      
      > I work in the type
      > certification world, and I have seen several examples where major
      > manufacturers have had lots of teething pains on new engine models.
      > They eventually get it sorted out, but I wouldn't be an early buyer
      > of a new model, expecially for a single-engine aircraft.
      
      How about the diesels that we were told about two years ago? When is Renault
      (SMA) going to come out with their 200 hp?
      
      Norman Hunger
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
Subject: 
Re: (Miss-use of the DNA flag?) RV-4 CANOPY REPLACEMENT
      
      
      Eric,be encouraged,and remember Teddy Roosevelt's words"critics don't
      count".It's the man in the arena with sweat in his eyes who is trying to
      do his best who really counts.Hang in there and don't let these critics
      whose purpose seems to be to flame others get you down. 
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: 
Re: Alternate engines
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
      
      
      Jim Sears wrote:
      >If the engine is certified, it will have had to have gone 
      > through testing to get that.  
      
      What does certification testing consist of ?
      
      Hal Kempthorne 
      RV6a N7HK (Valentine)  FLYING
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Edward Cole" <edwardmcole(at)home.com>
Subject: 
Blast tubes
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
      
      
      I find it hard to believe that anything that is bolted to the engine case
      really benefits from blast cooling.
      It seems to me that fuel pumps, magnetos, and vacuum pumps will all be at
      the same temperature as the engine
      case and a small blast tube could not overcome the temp of of the entire
      mass.
      
      Ed Cole
      RV6A N2169D Flying
      RV6A N648RV Finishing
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Robertson
      Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 4:18 PM
      Subject: Re: RV-List: Blast tubes
      
      
      Here's my two cents worth.  The tubes to the alternator and the right mag
      are needed unless you fly in only a cold weather area.  I talked to Klaus
      and he was clear that the newer versions of the LSE ignition module don't
      need the cooling air anymore.  And the tubes to the vacumn and fuel pumps
      are luxury items.  Some may disagree about the vacumn pump but I haven't
      seen it have a big effect over the years.
      
      Mike Robertson
      RV-8A
      
      
      >From: RGray67968(at)AOL.COM
      >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
      >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: RV-List: Blast tubes
      >Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:36:39 EDT
      >
      >
      >Hey folks,
      >        Lots of posts in the archives but nothing concrete as far as what
      >is
      >REALLY necessary. What is the REAL scoop on what blast tubes I need? I
      >worked
      >really hard to minimize all the clearances on my engine baffles and here I
      >am
      >ready to punch 5 (count 'em) 11/16ths holes in them. I planned to run the
      >tubes to 1 - alternator, 2 - left mag, 3 - right Lightspeed Elect. Ign., 4
      >-
      >vacuum pump, 5 - fuel pump.  From you guys flying...........what do I need,
      >what is just 'nice to have,' and what am I wasting my time on?
      >Thanks in advance.
      >Rick Gray RV6AB (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm
      >please please please archive pretty please
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
From: 
kenneth beene <kbeene(at)citilink.com>
Subject: 
Re: Blast tubes
      
      
      > I find it hard to believe that anything that is bolted to the engine case
      > really benefits from blast cooling.
      > It seems to me that fuel pumps, magnetos, and vacuum pumps will all be at
      > the same temperature as the engine
      > case and a small blast tube could not overcome the temp of of the entire
      > mass.
      
      Ed,
      I have tubes going to mags also and I am not convinced they serve a purpose
      because there is no shroud.  My fuel pump has a shroud around it and I think
      this is effective.  I think the one to the alternator is worth while, its is not
      sinking into the engine and is below the air flow.  Anyway the whole engine is
      cooled by a big blast tube.
      Ken
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
Subject: 
Re: RV-4 CANOPY REPLACEMENT
      
      
      The Orndorff "Finishing Kit" tapes Part I has a good video section on
      cutting plexiglass for an RV6.It would be similar for any RV .
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
From: 
Ed Wischmeyer <edwisch(at)alum.mit.edu>
Subject: 
To serif or not
      
      
      Somebody posted:
      
      > However, for
      > readability, you can't really beat a sans-serif font (a font that doesn't
      > have little hooks and flanges at the ends of the strokes of the letters).
      
      Frankly, I regard this as an urban legend, and know that this is a good
      way to start a non-productive argument... that not withstanding, back in
      a grad school class, the topic was two dimensional Fourier
      transformation, anti-aliasing, and all that. The point of this
      discussion, which I barely understood then and barely remember now, is
      that the serifs make text more readable.
      
      Example: look at how many books use serif fonts (essentially all of
      them), and how many magazines use serifs (most all of 'em, except those
      that are overly stylized.)
      Counter example: road signs, aircraft instrument panels -- and that may
      be because it's too hard to engrave serifs.
      
      Frankly, if the font has good contrast and clarity, you're probably okay
      either way. My pet bugaboos:
      * long rows of switches where you can't easily find what you want. Group
      switches to no more than 5 in a group
      * important switches (like fuel pump) that aren't easily found. Put 'em
      on the end
      * inappropriate switches (turn & bank on/off toggle switches, for instance)
      * mixing important and unimportant switches (fuel pump or master switch
      buried in a row of lights)
      
      Lots of folks don't think human factors are important, and they're often
      right. When they're wrong, though, the evidence is frequently bent metal.
      
      Ed "now looking at human factors professionally" Wischmeyer
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
Subject: 
Re: RV-4 CANOPY REPLACEMENT
      
      
      When I read of your vandalized canopy it made me think that a locked
      hanger while expenisive may be in the long run cheaper.
      Someone wanted some of the aviatonics of a friend's RV4 in Visalia
      (locked canopy) they busted the canopy and took what they wanted. I
      remember him saying he did not think he would lock the canapy again,they
      could open the canopy,take what they wanted without destroying the
      canopy.Sometimes a lock only keeps out honest people.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Scott Pittman" <SPITTMAN(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: 
Re: Blast tubes
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
      
      
      Richard Collins mentioned this in Flying magazine last month (April, 01, p.
      74)  He claims to have had a
      vacuum pump failure in his C-210 every 200 hours when it was new, seven in
      all.  Installing a blast tube
      with a shroud has reduced the failure rate to only one in the past 6400
      hours.  I think I will be installing a
      blast tube on my pump.
      
      Scott Pittman
      Ordering RV-4 Fuselage
      
      > > I find it hard to believe that anything that is bolted to the engine
      case
      > > really benefits from blast cooling.
      > > It seems to me that fuel pumps, magnetos, and vacuum pumps will all be
      at
      > > the same temperature as the engine
      > > case and a small blast tube could not overcome the temp of of the entire
      > > mass.
      >
      > Ed,
      > I have tubes going to mags also and I am not convinced they serve a
      purpose
      > because there is no shroud.  My fuel pump has a shroud around it and I
      think
      > this is effective.  I think the one to the alternator is worth while, its
      is not
      > sinking into the engine and is below the air flow.  Anyway the whole
      engine is
      > cooled by a big blast tube.
      > Ken
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Emrath" <Emrath(at)home.com>
Subject: 
Re: Jabiru track record
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
      
      
      Maybe someone can benefit from this, I don't have any clue about the engine
      and don't want to start a flaming war. Yesterday I spoke to one of our
      Chapter members who has a modified Long-EZ with twin 80 HP Jabiru engines.
      He is totally frustrated with the support he has been given by Jabiru on an
      electrical problem. He is getting lots of ignition noise and also, the
      alternators don't seem to be putting out their rated power. He has shielded
      wire throughout and grounded well. The ignition system just seems to be very
      noisy. As for the alternator's power, I cannot say what the difficulties
      are. Just some comments about a friend's problems.
      
      Marty in Brentwood TN
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Kevin Horton" <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
      Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 8:17 AM
      Subject: Re: RV-List: Jabiru track record
      
      
      >
      > >
      > >Jabiru may not have much of a track record in the U.S., but they have
      been
      > >producing Australian-certified airplanes since '91 and have been
      producing
      > >4-stroke Australian-certified aircraft engines since '93. Their current
      > >line includes an 80 and 120 hp 4 stroke, direct drive engines. They have
      > >been flying the 80hp engine in their own airplane (Jabiru LSA 55/2K)
      since
      > >'95. Not quite the track record of Lycoming, but seems they have garnered
      > >support from the Oz government. I am not sure whose government you trust
      > >more, ours or theirs, but it seems that Jabiru has gone to some lengths
      to
      > >create a good product.
      > >
      > >That said, I think that unless Van's comes up with a firewall forward kit
      > >for the Jabiru, then your engine installation will be just as problematic
      > >as a 13B or Chevy.
      > >
      > >tw
      > >
      >
      > Terry,
      >
      > I don't think the concern is Jabiru's track record, but more the lack
      > of track record on the engine in question (180 hp 8 cylinder model).
      > Each engine can have its own specific problems.  I work in the type
      > certification world, and I have seen several examples where major
      > manufacturers have had lots of teething pains on new engine models.
      > They eventually get it sorted out, but I wouldn't be an early buyer
      > of a new model, expecially for a single-engine aircraft.
      > --
      > Kevin Horton         RV-8 (finishing kit)
      > Ottawa, Canada
      > http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
RV8 Trip Report: Albuquerque to Spokane (long)
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
      
      
      Listers,
      
      My trip a few days ago in the RV8 to the Pacific Northwet..uh...northWEST 
      was quite successful!  Had a great time and saw some wondrous sights.  My 
      backseater for the trip was Gary Seaton, who, after flying with me last 
      year, decided he just had to have an RV.  The purpose of the trip was to 
      take Gary to Revelstoke, B.C. to meet with Homer Rogers, builder of an 
      awesome RV-6A for sale. My job: fly Gary there, and do a pre-purchase 
      inspection and flight evaluation of the airplane.  Both went exceptionally 
      well. Homer is a terrific guy and builds a fine airplane.
      
      We struggled on the way up there to find VFR weather along our chosen route. 
        First stop was Page, Az.  Wx was down to yucky VFR upon arrival.  We 
      landed, fueled up, and got a ride into town for breakfast.
      The scud cleared up nicely to a low, scattered layer that was easily topped 
      for our departure.  Off we went to Ely, Nevada for the next fuel stop.  Yet 
      again, more snow, rain and low ceilings.  It was the kind of weather that 
      looks really dreadful from a distance, but sorta dissolves as you get near 
      it.  Visibility was just fine but it was COLD!  It's still wintertime in 
      some parts of the country!
      
      We touched down in Ely, tanked up, checked the charts and weather ahead. The 
      same type of random showers and mist was forecast all the way up to 
      Washington, with improvement farther to the west.  Next stop was Nampa, 
      Idaho.  Our route took us up over Elko, Nevada, then a slight northerly 
      swing to Nampa.  Pretty decent weather and looking better by the minute.  
      More fuel, a few cookies for the crew, and off again.  Next waypoint was 
      Baker City.  Visibility very good, but had to make the choice: over the top 
      for a smooth, clear ride, but man it's cold up there!  Or, down under it, a 
      bit warmer, but have to dodge the occasionally semi-obscured mountains.  We 
      did a bit of both.  The cabin heater did help, but not much when the canopy 
      shrinks from the cold and every little air leak feels like a blast of arctic 
      air.  Gotta work on that.
      
      We passed Baker City and pointed the nose at Davenport, Washington.  The 
      going was good...very good in fact...until we neared the Oregon/Washington 
      border.  A huge wall of misty, blinding white cloud that had no top in site 
      was ahead of us.  The sun was lighting it up like a flashbulb and I just 
      could not see through it.  So, while constantly looking over my shoulder and 
      down to assure myself that we could get into visual conditions, I started a 
      climbing ascent to see where the top was.  After an inspiring RV climb to 
      14,000', I'd had enough.  Still couldn't see through it.  The view below and 
      behind was still wide open.   "Gary, I think we're done for the day" was my 
      comment.  A course reversal and 15 minutes later, we were descending into La 
      Grande, Oregon.  Blew the first approach...after the wind sock swapped ends 
      on me on final!  Don't ya just hate it when that happens?  The next shot at 
      it went much better, but I'm still totally amazed at how the airplane 
      handles closer to sea level than where I typically fly.  It's like the wings 
      are filled with helium!  I was a slipping madman most of the trip. Kept 
      coming in too high.
      
      We stayed the night at La Grande, and returned to the airplane Friday 
      morning to find it covered with a mixture of snow and ice from the precip of 
      the previous night.  I put my back seater to work brushing it off...ALL of 
      it.  The skies were clearing and off we went.  The flight into Washington 
      was simply stunning.  Perfectly smooth air and unlimited visibility.  Yet 
      again, that changed!  Next waypoint was Davenport, then a right hook around 
      the Spokane airspace into Deer Park. More scud, and showers.  I pulled some 
      power to slow down to give me more time to make a decision and a 180 turn if 
      necessary.  The Davenport airport looked largely deserted, so we continued 
      on to Deer Park.  The clouds were definitely low, but seemed to open up as 
      we passed. It was magical.  Beautiful terrain, light rain, and occasional 
      bits of sun.  We landed at the Park, and also found nobody home.  One grumpy 
      A&P type working in a hangar was absolutely NO help at all.  We did find the 
      small building that housed a bathroom, charts, coffee, and such.  After a 
      few minutes there, Bill and Penny Loomis, the managers, arrived. These folks 
      have got to be the nicest, most supportive and downright wonderful folks in 
      the airport business!
      
      They helped me assess the weather situation, from an experienced, local 
      viewpoint, and even called up Castlegar flight service for a weather 
      briefing at our intended Canadian port of entry.  Synopsis: VFR not 
      recommended....REALLY not recommended.  When I hear terms like "snow 
      pellets, rain showers, mountain obscuration, or visibility less than one 
      mile"...I tend to listen!  Bill and Penny mentioned that we consider driving 
      up there..in their loaner car!  Done deal.  I made my "no-go" decision, we 
      grabbed a quick sandwich at the Subway, and onward to Canada we went. Oh, 
      one more thing, they pulled their Champ out of their hangar so that I could 
      park my RV for the night.  WOW..these folks are awesome.  Gary called Homer 
      with our plans and Homer agreed to fly the plane down to Castlegar to save 
      us all some time.
      
      We drove the three hours up through customs and into Castlegar, B.C. What a 
      drive, and the views were exceptional.  Just as Gary was preparing to call 
      Homer's wife, I looked down the flightline and saw...Homer's airplane! He 
      had arrived mere minutes before we did.  What timing.
      
      I looked the plane over, and mostly admired the craftsmanship and cleverness 
      of Homer's construction skills.  Many improvements were made and all were 
      executed with great care.  I hopped in the right seat, with Homer in the 
      left and off we went down the river.  WOW...we don't have views like this in 
      New Mexico!  A few turns, stalls, and we were headed back.  I landed it.  
      Man, whatta groovy RV.  On the ramp, Homer hops out, and tells me to take 
      Gary up. "HUH!?? ME?? I thought YOU were going to take him up?" Was all I 
      could say.  It all went very well,  It's just an RV afterall, and handles 
      wonderfully.  In fact, I landed it better than I land MY OWN AIRPLANE!  Gee, 
      what's up with THAT?!? (NO comments on the training wheel debate, K?)
      
      The synopsis of the deal: Gary bought the airplane.  Delivery or pickup of 
      the plane will happen at a later date.  We flew home in MUCH better 
      conditions, and with a decent tailwind that allowed groundspeeds of 195mph+ 
      most of the way. Total flight time back home along the same route as we came 
      up: 6 hrs., 51 minutes.
      
      Keep building your airplanes, folks.  The world opens up to you when you fly 
      an RV!
      
      Brian Denk
      RV8 N94BD
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Austin" <6430(at)axion.net>
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
      
      
      >
      > >>Sometimes a lock only keeps out honest people.
      >
      > A lock keeps out only honest people!! There is no lock made which will
      keep out someone who REALLY
      > wants to get in.
      >
      > Bob McC
      Ain't that the truth !
      A few years ago, vandals broke into an old WW2 hangar here which had about
      40 airplanes in it, and they went around randomly smashing canopies etc.,
      and all they took were stupid things like a fire extinguisher and the odd
      headset....must have been kids.
      Worst kind of thing though was they smashed the canopy of a T28 which was
      not locked but they could not figure out how to slide it....then they took
      nothing.
      I have always planned not to have a lock on my canopy...my panel sure ain't
      exotic, but if they want to get in...go ahead..canopy slides easily....
      Austin.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
From: 
"Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
Subject: 
Re: To serif or not
      
      
      You Go, Boy!
      
      The ergodynamics of the aircraft cockpit and further
      anthropogenic/physiologic considerations are becoming a very important
      part of aircraft design and accident investigation/prevention.  Some of
      these little things can matter very much under certain "stressed"
      situations and even under "normal" situations (ie, the location of the
      fuel selector valve on John Denver's newly acquired aircraft).  Also,
      remember cockpit procedures, communications and POH instructions
      (remember the airliner that went down over southern Florida because the
      whole flight crew was trying to trouble shoot a warning light and no one
      was flying the 'plane?).
      
      Boyd Braem
      N600SS
      
      Ed Wischmeyer wrote:
      > 
      > 
      > Somebody posted:
      > 
      > > However, for
      > > readability, you can't really beat a sans-serif font (a font that doesn't
      > > have little hooks and flanges at the ends of the strokes of the letters).
      > 
      > Frankly, I regard this as an urban legend, and know that this is a good
      > way to start a non-productive argument... that not withstanding, back in
      > a grad school class, the topic was two dimensional Fourier
      > transformation, anti-aliasing, and all that. The point of this
      > discussion, which I barely understood then and barely remember now, is
      > that the serifs make text more readable.
      > 
      > Example: look at how many books use serif fonts (essentially all of
      > them), and how many magazines use serifs (most all of 'em, except those
      > that are overly stylized.)
      > Counter example: road signs, aircraft instrument panels -- and that may
      > be because it's too hard to engrave serifs.
      > 
      > Frankly, if the font has good contrast and clarity, you're probably okay
      > either way. My pet bugaboos:
      > * long rows of switches where you can't easily find what you want. Group
      > switches to no more than 5 in a group
      > * important switches (like fuel pump) that aren't easily found. Put 'em
      > on the end
      > * inappropriate switches (turn & bank on/off toggle switches, for instance)
      > * mixing important and unimportant switches (fuel pump or master switch
      > buried in a row of lights)
      > 
      > Lots of folks don't think human factors are important, and they're often
      > right. When they're wrong, though, the evidence is frequently bent metal.
      > 
      > Ed "now looking at human factors professionally" Wischmeyer
      > 
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
From: 
Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org>
Subject: 
Re: To serif or not
      
      
      Serif fonts are generally used in print sizes of 12 point or smaller, to
      make reading easier.  They make reading easier because we read mostly by
      recognizing the overall shape of each word, not by parsing individual
      letters, and the little horizontal strokes (the serifs) help tie the
      word together and visually separate it from the other words.  (We only
      parse letters when we encounter an unfamiliar word.  This is why it's so
      easy to miss a small error, such as "spoof" instead of "spool", when
      proof-reading.  The overall shape of one word is much like the other.)
      
      But this theory is about how we read lines of text, and serif fonts are
      used to aid reading lines of text.  If you are using labels (single
      words or short phrases) the advantage of serifs mostly disappears.  This
      is referred to in publishing as "display font," and is generally
      san-serif.  A better way to go with labels is to use a larger font, and
      not worry about the serifs.
      
      An aside:  serifs were invented by the Romans, as a way to avoid cracks
      caused by stress concentration at the ends of strokes when they chiseled
      characters into stone.  That is why serif fonts are often referred to as
      Roman fonts, to this day.
      
      Tedd McHenry
      Surrey, BC
      -6
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
From: 
Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: 
Re: RV-List:Miss-use of the DNA flag?
      
      
      I have never used the "DNA" tag because I try to adhere to the following
      rule:
      
      "If it ain't worth archivin', don't post it".
      
      Sam Buchanan
      "The RV Journal"  http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
      
      
      "BOBE." wrote:
      > 
      > 
      > Eric,be encouraged,and remember Teddy Roosevelt's words"critics don't
      > count".It's the man in the arena with sweat in his eyes who is trying to
      > do his best who really counts.Hang in there and don't let these critics
      > whose purpose seems to be to flame others get you down.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: 
Re: Blast tubes
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
      
      
      > Richard Collins mentioned this in Flying magazine last month (April, 01,
      p.
      > 74)  He claims to have had a
      > vacuum pump failure in his C-210 every 200 hours when it was new, seven in
      > all.  Installing a blast tube
      > with a shroud has reduced the failure rate to only one in the past 6400
      > hours.  I think I will be installing a
      > blast tube on my pump.
      
      
      It is also interesting that in the same article, he notes that he has had
      numerous electrical failures, far more than vacuum.
      
      Alex Peterson
      Maple Grove, MN
      6A
      
      
      ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
From: 
jra <j_arnold(at)swbell.net>
Subject: 
Which kits to buy first
      
      
      I am going to buy the Rv7 kit this June. I am planning on buying 2 kits
      initially, and I was curious which was I should buy first. The empannage and
      wing kit or the Emp and the fuselage. This is probably a stupid question,
      but I couldn't find anything on Van's web page to help me out. Also does
      anyone have the actual dimensions so that I can compare the cockpits width
      with the RV6.
      
      Jimmy Arnold
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: 
Re: Jabiru track record
Date: 
- - - , 20- 
      
      
      >Maybe someone can benefit from this, I don't have any clue about 
      >the engine and don't want to start a flaming war. Yesterday I spoke 
      >to one of our Chapter members who has a modified Long-EZ with 
      >twin 80 HP Jabiru engines. He is totally frustrated with the support 
      >he has been given by Jabiru on an electrical problem. He is getting 
      >lots of ignition noise and also, the alternators don't seem to be 
      >putting out their rated power. 
      >
      >He has shielded wire throughout and grounded well. The ignition 
      >system just seems to be very noisy. As for the alternator's power, I 
      >cannot say what the difficulties are. Just some comments about a 
      >friend's problems.
      
      Hmmmm.  This isn't good.  Did the friend have any problems before 
      he installed the new engines?   Is it possible that he may have done 
      something during the installation that has impacted the system?  You 
      say he isn't getting support from Jabiru.  Have there been good tech 
      sessions or have they been heated?   This alone can cause some 
      difficulties.  Like you, I'm not trying to throw flames, either.  I look at 
      this as something that would be nice for you to look into for us a bit 
      farther, if you don't mind.   We don't want to judge an engine by one 
      person's installation.  I've seen some bad and good ones, even with 
      my limited access to those projects of others.   However, if his 
      installation is good and the support bad, we need to know that up 
      front before we start sinking dollars into a bad deal.  So far, the 
      majority is in favor of this being a good engine.  In the meantime, I've 
      got a friend in England who has a Jabiru airplane fitted with what 
      else.  :-)   I'll contact him and see how his engine is doing. 
      
      Jim Sears in KY     
      RV-6A N198JS
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: 
Re: Blast tubes
Date: 
- - - , 20- 
      
      
      
      
      > I find it hard to believe that anything that is bolted to the engine 
      >case really benefits from blast cooling.  It seems to me that fuel 
      >pumps, magnetos, and vacuum pumps will all be at  the same 
      >temperature as the engine case and a small blast tube could not 
      >overcome the temp of of the entire mass.
      
      My Cheetah, which is very much like my RV inside the cowl, did not 
      have any blast tubes.  During my over nine years of ownership, the 
      only problems I had was with some vapor locking when I let the hot 
      engine sit for a few minutes and with my having to replace one 
      vacuum pump.  Everything else was just fine.  I did have to replace 
      the mags; but, they were the throw away Slicks that were supposed 
      to last 800 hours.  Mine lasted 1200 and 1400 hours.  Not bad for 
      throw aways.  Oh, yeah.  The battery and contacters were out there 
      in the heat, too.   The vacuum pump lasted well over 500 hours 
      before it bit the dust.  I consider that just fine for a dry one.  
      
      My RV-6A has some blast tubes to the electric and mechanical fuel 
      pumps to help slow down vapor locking.  I've considered other blast 
      tubes; but, I've not put any more on it.  So far, no problems in 90 
      hours.  That doesn't mean I won't.  
      
      Jim Sears in KY        
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Which kits to buy first
From: 
cecilth(at)juno.com
      
      
      My opinion for what its worth.
      Order the standard way, especially if space is a factor.
      Tail parts first to hone your skills on cheaper parts. Then the Wing Kit.
      The wings, when finished are easier to store out of the way while
      building the fuselage. 
      The fuselage takes up more space.
      Cecil Hatfield
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
From: 
Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: 
Re: Jabiru for RV9 ?
      
      
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
      > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
      > Knicholas2(at)AOL.COM
      > Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 12:06 PM
      > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
      > Subject: RV-List: Jabiru for RV9 ?
      > 
      > 
      > I have read with interest the comments on the Jabiru 120hp engine.  My RV9
      > (..finishing wings...) is slated for an O-235,  117 hp Lycoming.  It sounds
      > like the (proven)  Jabiru 120HP may be a good alternative without worrying
      > about the growing pains of the updoming 200hp.  Comments?  I tried to call
      > the U.S. dealer and he is at Fun & Sun - does anyone know the cost?
      > 
      > Kim Nicholas
      > Seattle, WA
      > 
      Bill VonDane wrote:
      > 
      > 
      > You should be able to get one for $12K or less, but please note:
      > 
      > The 120hp rating is @ 3300rpm, it only produces 107hp @ 2750rpm...
      > 
      > -Bill
      > 
      
      This only means that you need to obtain a slightly shorter
      prop, cut for desired compromise of climb/cruise. Downside:
      probable slight loss in efficiency. Upside: increased ground
      clearance & likely a more reliable package than a 40 year
      old used Lyc.
      
      Charlie
      flying Lycosaur -4
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
From: 
Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: 
Re: Which kits to buy first
      
      
      
      >
      >I am going to buy the Rv7 kit this June. I am planning on buying 2 kits
      >initially, and I was curious which was I should buy first. The empannage and
      >wing kit or the Emp and the fuselage. This is probably a stupid question,
      >but I couldn't find anything on Van's web page to help me out. Also does
      >anyone have the actual dimensions so that I can compare the cockpits width
      >with the RV6.
      >
      >Jimmy Arnold
      >
      
      Jimmy,
      
      I understand the RV-7 wings are similar or identical to the RV-8 
      wings.  The RV-8 wing spars are match drilled to the carry through 
      structure that is part of one of the fuselage bulkheads.  So, the 
      main part of one of the fuselage bulkheads is sent with the wing kit, 
      to keep the carry through structure matched up with the wing spars. 
      On the RV-8, you can't do too much on the fuselage kit unless you 
      have received the wing kit.
      
      Vans can tell you whether the above is also true on the RV-7, but I 
      would bet a case of beer that it was (Canadian or British beer only 
      please - "American beer" is an oxymoron ;-)
      
      -- 
      Kevin Horton         RV-8 (finishing kit)
      Ottawa, Canada
      http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Which kits to buy first
      
      
      Buy the tail kit first! Unless you have allllllllllllllllll the tools, I'd 
      save my $ for numerous tools that you never thought you would have needed. 
      There are plenty of builders that start the tail, some finish, some do not, 
      THATS when you will really decide if you want to continue. Bob
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
From: 
Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: 
Re: 4 rotary powered RV's at SnF
      
      
      Jim Sears wrote:
      > 
      > 
      > Thanks for the report on the 13B.  I've watched these folks for a long
      > time and haven't given much thought to putting one on my airplane
      > for two reasons.  There has been no cookbook produced with parts
      > to go with it, that I know of.  That makes each installation an
      > experiment.  Each installation I saw at Sun-n-Fun was different.  I'm
      > pretty sure that most of us don't want to get into an experiment with
      > the engine while building our first kits.  Secondly, the ones I've seen
      > usually have an exhaust that looks awful!  We go to the trouble to
      > build a nice airplane only to hang an exhaust under it that extends
      > well past the cowl.  While I appreciate what these guys are doing,
      > I've decided it isn't the choice for me.
      > 
      > BTW, Pat and I were listening to a conversation between one of the
      > owners and a builder.  The fuel consumption on his 13B is about
      > 4gal/hour at idle to 14 gal/hour at full power.  I'm not sure if that's
      > good or bad.  Just a number I heard.
      > 
      > Jim Sears in KY
      > RV-6A N198JS
      > 
      
      Hi Jim,
      
      Was that 4 gph at idle, or at 'economy' cruise?
      
      14 gph at .55 lb per HP/hr is about 150 hp. I'll bet that a
      Lyc data sheet will say just about the same fuel burn for an
      O320 at full power. Was that at sea level or full throttle
      at 8000 ft (75%)? Most of the rotary's legendary poor fuel
      economy is at the very low power settings used in autos.
      
      Tracy Crook (the RV-4) has flown his for around 1000 hrs. He
      can fly with 180hp -4's with almost identical fuel burn, &
      his plane is probably 'dirtier' than most -4's which really
      hurts when you are in the 200 mph speed range.
      
      Those long exhaust pipes actually look about like the 'swiss
      muffler' that is very common in Europe to meet noise
      standards over there. Muffler design for the rotary in a/c
      is evolving rapidly now, & that issue may go away soon.
      
      I agree that the engine installation will be more difficult,
      but to me, there is a lot of frustration flying with a 40
      year old engine (70 year old technology) using a farm
      tractor carb & ignition. 
      
      I'm not going to dismantle my flying a/c to install one, but
      when I build, I'd love to try it.
      
      Charlie
      
      flying Lycosaur -4
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Inclination on fuel pump
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
      
      
      Facet/Purolator only recommends mounting with the outlet higher than the
      inlet to aid in purging vapor. There is no specific angle specified. If you
      want to contact the manufacturer for specific recommendations here is a
      link: http://www.facet-purolator.com/connect.htm  However, do not mention
      that it is for an airplane as they do not condone the use of their pumps in
      aircraft due to liability concerns.
      
      Chris Heitman
      Former Facet Distributor
      RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
      Canopy
      http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
      
      -----Original Message-----
      I believe that the FACET fuel pump that Van recommends and sells (p/n ES
      40108) is a special case of requiring a specific orientation.  Other
      pumps (even some different Facet models), do not have this
      requirement/limitation and can be mounted horizontally/vertically.
      Boyd Braem
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
From: 
Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
Subject: 
Re: 4 rotary powered RV's at SnF
      
      
      Talking about Tracy, how does 6 GPH doing 170 mph TAS at 12,500' sound? That's
      what
      he's getting.
      
      Finn
      
      Charlie and Tupper England wrote:
      
      > Tracy Crook (the RV-4) has flown his for around 1000 hrs. He
      > can fly with 180hp -4's with almost identical fuel burn, &
      > his plane is probably 'dirtier' than most -4's which really
      > hurts when you are in the 200 mph speed range.
      
      
      NetZero Platinum
      No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access
      Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
      http://www.netzero.net
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: 
Re: 4 rotary powered RV's at SnF
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
      
      
       Subject: Re: RV-List: 4 rotary powered RV's at SnF
      
      
      
      >
      > Jim Sears wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Thanks for the report on the 13B.  I've watched these folks for a long
      > > time and haven't given much thought to putting one on my airplane
      > > for two reasons.  There has been no cookbook produced with parts
      > > to go with it, that I know of.  That makes each installation an
      > > experiment.  Each installation I saw at Sun-n-Fun was different.  I'm
      > > pretty sure that most of us don't want to get into an experiment with
      > > the engine while building our first kits.  Secondly, the ones I've seen
      > > usually have an exhaust that looks awful!  We go to the trouble to
      > > build a nice airplane only to hang an exhaust under it that extends
      > > well past the cowl.  While I appreciate what these guys are doing,
      > > I've decided it isn't the choice for me.
      > >
      > > BTW, Pat and I were listening to a conversation between one of the
      > > owners and a builder.  The fuel consumption on his 13B is about
      > > 4gal/hour at idle to 14 gal/hour at full power.  I'm not sure if that's
      > > good or bad.  Just a number I heard.
      > >
      > > Jim Sears in KY
      > > RV-6A N198JS
      > >
      
      Hi Jim,
          Being one of the four rotaries at Sun & Fun (the blue/white and red
      RV-6A), I agree that there is as yet no "cook book" approach to installing
      one.  However, the way we will eventually arrive at (or close to) a  "best
      practices" approach is to try a number of different ways and then hopefully
      close on the best way.  We are all sharing our results with others so they
      can move further toward this goal than we have.
      
       At this stage, I would agree that this is not for everyone as you must be
      willing to experiment and redo.  Certainly there is a degree of risk, just
      as there is with any engine - including Lycomings.  We are convinced that
      the engine itself presents very little risk, the rotary is inherently more
      reliable than any reciprocating engine.  The reason is there are no
      connecting rods, pinions, valves, valve springs, camshafts, and other things
      that can fail in a reciprocating engine and of course none of  the inertial
      loads of pistons changing direction many times a second.  However there is
      risk, but it primarily lies in the auxiliary systems (fuel, coolant, oil,
      etc) that we each designed from scratch.  I will be the first to say that if
      you want to fly, put a Lycoming in your bird and enjoy.  If you like a
      technical challenge then this may be your cup of tea.
      
      Your comment about the installations all being different is certainly
      correct, although the underlying principles and concepts are probably closer
      than their implementation would indicate.  Actually, the different
      installations actually show that any number of approaches will get you in
      the air, now we are trying to nail down the "optimum" approaches and
      practices so those that may want to follow will have it somewhat easier.
      
         As with any Lycoming powered RV, the performance depends on the airframe
      and propeller  combination as much as anything.  But Tracy Crooks Rotary
      Powered RV-4 (which is not as aerodynamic clean as it could be) will leave
      just about any 180 Lycoming powered RV in his tracks.  My maximum calibrated
      True Air Speed to date is 192 MPH at 1656 lbs Gross weight, certainly not
      the fastest RV-6A, but respectable.
      
        Lastly, I agree that the current mufflers you saw are ugly - although I am
      trying a variation on the "Swiss" muffler that hopefully will not be as bad.
      But once again we four at Sun & Fun have
       agree to take different approaches to see which one comes closest to the
      idea of a light weight, effective sound reduction and without hurting
      performance more than necessary.  We have certainly found some approaches
      that did not work but others look more promising.
      
      For your information, there is one firm that is producing FWF rotary engine
      installations specifically for the RV and that is PowerSport.  However, at
      the moment their installation is a bit pricey in my opinion.  For that
      reason, most who want a rotary powered bird will have to roll their own for
      the time being.  But anyone who is interested can check their web site at
      http://www.powersportaviation.com/
      
      Tracy Crook's site is filled with information about rotary engines and also
      products if you want to roll your own at
      
      http://www.rotaryaviation.com/
      
      
      To my knowledge, there are 8 RVs flying with rotary engines at the current
      time with approx 12 more RV projects with rotary engines in various stages
      including several 3 rotor engines in RV-8s.  Rotary engines are also flying
      in Long EZs, Cozys, Velocities, GlasStars, Coots, and one in a Grumman Tiger
      as well as other airframes.
      
      This is what experimental aircraft building is all about.  You can draw your
      line wherever you want to.  Most folks will draw the line at an experimental
      aircraft with a certified engine and some of us have the inclination to push
      the line a bit further.
      
      Best Regards
      
      Ed Anderson
      RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
      Matthews, NC
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
Subject: 
Re: To serif or not
      
      
      In a message dated 4/15/01 1:22:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
      edwisch(at)alum.mit.edu writes:
      
      
      > .
      > 
      > Frankly, if the font has good contrast and clarity, you're probably okay
      > either way. My pet bugaboos:
      > * long rows of switches where you can't easily find what you want. Group
      > switches to no more than 5 in a group
      > * important switches (like fuel pump) that aren't easily found. Put 'em
      > on the end
      > * inappropriate switches (turn & bank on/off toggle switches, for instance)
      > * mixing important and unimportant switches (fuel pump or master switch
      > buried in a row of lights)
      > 
      > Lots of folks don't think human factors are important, and they're often
      > right. When they're wrong, though, the evidence is frequently bent metal.
      > 
      > Ed "now looking at human factors professionally" Wischmeyer
      
      Building on the human factors theme:
      
      Determine which is likely to be your "free" hand. For most side by side 
      folks, it'll be your right hand (you ALWAYS need a hand on the stick, but 
      there are plenty of times when your throttle hand is free for other tasks).  
      For everyone else, your left hand is the free one.
      
      Place the switches you're most likely to use in flight, or those that you may 
      need to get to RIGHT NOW in the easiest to reach location for your "free" 
      hand.  In my case, I deemed that the fuel pump, trim servo kill, and landing 
      light switches are the ones I'd need easy access to during flight (and 
      especially in the pattern).  If you have a panel located trim switch, it 
      should also be easy to reach with the probable free hand.  Like Ed said, 
      group the switches, with the critical ones in locations which makes them 
      easiest to find by braille.
      
      Any other switches (mags, starter, primer, internal and external lights, 
      etc...) need to be logically organized.  In my case, I've got the master, 
      starter, primer, and ignition systems in a group, with lights in another 
      group.  
      
      If you can locate switches to the throttle quadrant or the control stick, 
      that's a huge bonus, because you don't have to turn loose of anything to 
      operate the switches or flight controls.  Obvious candidates are transmit, 
      trim, and flaps,  but the more you can add, the better, within reason.
      
      One thing you should absolutely try to avoid is cross handed operation.  You 
      do not want to have to reach across your body to operate a switch, nor is it 
      good to have to switch hands on the stick to operate a switch.  It can be 
      difficult to avoid these problems entirely, but you should not accept them on 
      flight critical items (fill in your list of flight critical switches here). 
      
      A final thing to consider is dexterity.  If you really, really, need to use 
      your dominant hand to operate those little buttons and switches on your 
      radio, you might as well locate the radio near your dominant hand.  Operating 
      a radio in turbulence can be tough even with your "better" hand, and may be 
      impossible with your non-dominant hand.
      
      
      Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
      RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
Subject: 
Non certified  Engines
      
      
      I am struck with an impression of several people I know having off
      airport landings and spending a lot more time working on airplanes than
      flying. 
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
From: 
wayne hennessey <azduke(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Re: Looking for ride//Oshkosh 
      
      
      --- I am looking for ride to Oshkosh from the Phoenix 
      Area.
      
      Please contact me off line at azduke(at)yahoo.com
      
      rv-9a   n944wh(reserved)  working on  horiz. stab
      > 
      >
      > through
      >
      > http://www.matronics.com/archives
      > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
      >
      > Matronics!
      >
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
      ====
      
      
      J. WAYNE HENNESSEY
      12212 NORTH PARADISE VILLEGE PKWY  #207C
      PHOENIX, ARIZONA 85032      602-992-8286
      ---------------------------------------------------
      HAVE A NICE DAY
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
From: 
Gary and Carolyn Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: 
Re: Inclination on fuel pump
      
      
      I must disagree on this one. The facet pump I installed supplied by Van's
      stated in the instructions that it was very important to mount it at a 45
      degree angle. No reason given but I followed the manufacture's
      instructions.
      
      Gary Zilik
      
      mdelano wrote:
      
      >
      > The angle of the fuel pump makes no difference. Do not reposition it. I
      > have an identical pump on my Long EZ. The pump fittings are level with
      > the wings and mounts on the firewall. Works great. These pumps are used
      > on many homebuilt A/C and were designed for automobiles. The auto
      > manufactures mount them in any attitude that is convenient to there
      > instillation.
      >
      > Mark Delano
      > Tech. Councilor
      > 6A Finish
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
From: 
Gary and Carolyn Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: 
Re: Which kits to buy first
      
      
      > . This is probably a stupid question,
      > but I couldn't find anything on Van's web page to help me out.
      
      There telephone number is on their web page.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: 
Apr 15, 2001
Subject: 
Non certified engines
      
      
      Allen Tolle got real good at forced landings in a rotary Wankel RV3 and
      another gentleman damaged a V 6 3.8 liter Ford powered RV6 in Fresno.I
      really admire these people for daring to launch out try to do something
      good for general aviation.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: 
Re: Inclination on fuel pump
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
      
      
      When I was installing my pump I called the manufacurer with this question.
      They told me if mounted flat, it would significantly reduce the life of the
      pump. Apparently the piston naturally rotates if installed between 45 and 90
      degrees to horizontal, but will tend to remain in the same orientation and
      wear unevenly if installed flat.
      
      Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs)
      Portland, OR
      www.vanshomewing.org
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Ewinne(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
Subject: 
kit sequence
      
      
      I am going to buy the Rv7 kit this June. I am planning on buying 2 kits
      initially, and I was curious which was I should buy first. The empannage and
      wing kit or the Emp and the fuselage. This is probably a stupid question,
      but I couldn't find anything on Van's web page to help me out. Also does
      anyone have the actual dimensions so that I can compare the cockpits width
      with the RV6.
      
      Jimmy Arnold
      
      I agree with Cecil, Kevin and Bob, for the same reasons, but also for another 
      reason...
      
      The wing kit comes with the fuselage longerons included, since the wing 
      packaging fits those pieces better. If you order the fuse first, they'd have 
      to separately ship the longerons to you.
      
      Ed Winne
      RV-9A wings
      Palmyra PA
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Nancy Jean Burkholder" <nancyb(at)mninter.net>
Subject: 
Re: RV6-List: Westach fuel level system
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
      
      
      --> RV6-List message posted by: "Shirley Harding" 
      
      >>Any feedback on performance of Westach products?
      
      I used Westach products on an ultralight I owned back in '95.  I had a dual
      CHT/EGT.  I had no complaints about their performance.  However, I wouldn't
      put them in my RV.  That's my personal preference.  I don't think I would
      have the confidence in them that I would have in the other aviation gages
      that are going to populate my panel.  They were fine for my ultralight, but
      I will be using my RV for way more demanding missions, and for that I am
      willing to pay for a higher grade of instruments.
      
          nancy b.       "Good people are always so sure they're right."
      
                          Barbara Graham's last words
                          Executed June 5, 1955 at San Quentin
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Incredible paint job (flames) on the new RV of the Week
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
      Thread-Topic: RV-List: rv-8 video
      Thread-Index: AcDFwHx4OlUreDC7EdWALQAIxwleHwAr1Wgg
From: 
"Reeves, Doug" <Douglas.Reeves(at)archongroup.com>
      
      
      Mike Knight sent me both a picture and the specifics of his newly
      completed and painted 200hp RV-6.  If you're in need of some new
      wallpaper for your monitor you might want to see this.  
      
      Go to www.vansaircraft.net and click on 'RV of the Week'.
      
      Regards,
      Doug Reeves
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: 
Polished aluminum
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
      
      
      Anyone know of any photos on the WWW of a RV-6A finished in polished
      aluminum?
      
      Steve Soule
      soundproofing the floor of the RV-6A
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"skybolt-aviator" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com>
Subject: 
Re: Which kits to buy first
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
      
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "jra" <j_arnold(at)swbell.net>
      
      Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 5:54 PM
      Subject: RV-List: Which kits to buy first
      
      I asked Van at S & F if  the 7 was wider and  his answer was ,they are same
      width.The7 has 2" more cockpit length.
      Ollie&Lorene Washburn
      RV6-A,N795LW,@FD77.
      O-360,180HP,C/S,300+hrs.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
ENewton57(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Polished aluminum
      
      
      In a message dated 4/16/01 8:24:03 AM Central Daylight Time, 
      SSoule(at)pfclaw.com writes:
      
      << Anyone know of any photos on the WWW of a RV-6A finished in polished
       aluminum? >>
      
      Look in the photos here for a nice one:
       Yahoo! Groups : 
      RV-6and6A Files 
      
      
      Eric Newton  -  Long Beach, Mississippi
      RV-6A  N57ME (Reserved)  (Finish Kit)
      http://www.ericsrv6a.com
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
ENewton57(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Polished aluminum
      
      
      In a message dated 4/16/01 9:17:25 AM Central Daylight Time, 
      ENewton57(at)AOL.COM writes:
      
      << << Anyone know of any photos on the WWW of a RV-6A finished in polished
        aluminum? >>
      
       Look in the photos here for a nice one:
        Yahoo! Groups : 
       RV-6and6A Files 
        >>
      Sorry I forgot to say - click on the April 2000 Minnesota Fly-in and scroll 
      down to find it.
      
      
      Eric Newton  -  Long Beach, Mississippi
      RV-6A  N57ME (Reserved)  (Finish Kit)
      http://www.ericsrv6a.com
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Jabiru for RV9 ?
      
      
      >  > 
      >  > I have read with interest the comments on the Jabiru 120hp engine.  My 
      RV9
      >  > (..finishing wings...) is slated for an O-235,  117 hp Lycoming.  It 
      > sounds
      >  > like the (proven)  Jabiru 120HP may be a good alternative without 
      worrying
      >  > about the growing pains of the updoming 200hp.  Comments?  I tried to 
      call
      >  > the U.S. dealer and he is at Fun & Sun - does anyone know the cost?
      >  > 
      >  > Kim Nicholas
      >  > Seattle, WA
      >  > 
      >  Bill VonDane wrote:
      >  > 
      >  > 
      >  > You should be able to get one for $12K or less, but please note:
      >  > 
      >  > The 120hp rating is @ 3300rpm, it only produces 107hp @ 2750rpm...
      >  > 
      >  > -Bill
      >  > 
      >  
      >  This only means that you need to obtain a slightly shorter
      >  prop, cut for desired compromise of climb/cruise. Downside:
      >  probable slight loss in efficiency. Upside: increased ground
      >  clearance & likely a more reliable package than a 40 year
      >  old used Lyc.
      >  
      >  Charlie
      >  flying Lycosaur -4
      
      It also means building your own engine mount, nose gear, cowling, and 
      engineering the same to deal with weight difference and CG issues. On the 
      other hand, you will have no problem finding a low time O-235  for half the 
      price of the Jab. 
      Kevin -9A finishing 
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
From: 
Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Raleigh, NC visit
      
      
      Hi Folks,
      
      Heading out to Raleigh tomorrow night for a week of work-related
      meetings at RTP.  Staying at the airport Hilton.
      
      Will be there Wed, Thurs nights, available to buck or drive rivets or
      just gab.
      
      Last time I was out there I meandered around the airport
      (Raleigh-Durham) but found no general aviation.  At what other airports
      around there do the RV's hang out?
      
      Mike Thompson
      Austin, TX
      -6 N140RV (Reserved)
      Firewall Forward  (Yippee!!)
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
Subject: 
Voltage Issue
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
      
      
      On the way back from Sun N Fun, my system voltage started going high.  The
      plane has been flying for a year with 150+ hrs with no similar problems
      prior to this.  I have Van's alternator and fixed regulator.  Battery is a
      Concord 22 amp-hr.
      
      Question 1 - Can a bad battery cause the symptoms of a bad voltage
      regulator?
      
      Question 2 - Anyone know of a good source for an automotive voltage
      regulator (car make, model and year)?  
      
      Yes, I've got Mr. Bob's book and I've checked the archives.  Anyone having
      experience with these issues, please help out.
      
      Thanks
      
      Bryan Jones -8 765BJ
      Pearland, Texas
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
rpflanze(at)iquest.net
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Incredible paint job (flames) on the new RV of the Week
      
      
      I saw Mike's airplane at Sun-n-Fun.  It is a fabulous paint job, very well executed
      and applied.  I think AVWEB also has a picture of it in their coverage of the
      event.
      
      Randy Pflanzer N417G
      RV-6 (142 hours)
      
      
      >
      >Mike Knight sent me both a picture and the specifics of his newly
      >completed and painted 200hp RV-6.  If you're in need of some new
      >wallpaper for your monitor you might want to see this.  
      >
      >Go to www.vansaircraft.net and click on 'RV of the Week'.
      >
      >Regards,
      >Doug Reeves
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
From: 
Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: 
Re: Voltage Issue
      
      
      For a regulator, get a mid 70's Ford regulator, exact year is not a
      problem.
      
      Sam Buchanan (RV-6)
      "The RV Journal"  http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
      
      =========================
      
      "Jones, Bryan D." wrote:
      > 
      > 
      > On the way back from Sun N Fun, my system voltage started going high.  The
      > plane has been flying for a year with 150+ hrs with no similar problems
      > prior to this.  I have Van's alternator and fixed regulator.  Battery is a
      > Concord 22 amp-hr.
      > 
      > Question 1 - Can a bad battery cause the symptoms of a bad voltage
      > regulator?
      > 
      > Question 2 - Anyone know of a good source for an automotive voltage
      > regulator (car make, model and year)?
      > 
      > Yes, I've got Mr. Bob's book and I've checked the archives.  Anyone having
      > experience with these issues, please help out.
      > 
      > Thanks
      > 
      > Bryan Jones -8 765BJ
      > Pearland, Texas
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: 
Re: Non certified engines
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
      
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "BOBE." <RVPilot4(at)webtv.net>
      Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 11:31 PM
      Subject: RV-List: Non certified engines
      
      
      >
      > Allen Tolle got real good at forced landings in a rotary Wankel RV3 and
      > another gentleman damaged a V 6 3.8 liter Ford powered RV6 in Fresno.I
      > really admire these people for daring to launch out try to do something
      > good for general aviation.
      >
      >
       I stand corrected.  Allen Tolle did indeed have to make a force landing
      after damaging a gear box bearing with his nitrous oxide boosted Wankle
      powered RV-3.  The engine was up to the additional stress of boosted HP but
      not the gear box.
      
      Ed Anderson
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: 
Re: Non certified  Engines
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
      
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "BOBE." <RVPilot4(at)webtv.net>
      Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 10:55 PM
      Subject: RV-List: Non certified Engines
      
      
      >
      > I am struck with an impression of several people I know having off
      > airport landings and spending a lot more time working on airplanes than
      > flying.
      >
      
      I am unaware of any rotary powered aircraft making an off airport landing
      with the exception of a "Coot" aircraft which did have to land on water due
      to a thrust bearing failure.  This was attributed to the gear box which had
      no thrust bearing and therefore put excessive thrust loads on the engine
      thrust bearing.
      
      Lycoming power aircraft of course make more off-airport landing than any
      other power plant simply because their are many more aircraft powered by
      Lycomings.  Yet, most folks would not hesitate to put a Lycoming in their
      aircraft.  Just as in any installation with a Lycoming, any auto conversion
      success is to a great deal dependent on the thoughtfulness and quality of
      the installation.
      
      Certainly, I am not advocating that anyone give up their Lycoming for auto
      power, it is simply not for everyone.  Fortunately we have the choice to
      power our experimental aircraft with a variety of power plants.
      
      Best Regards
      
      Ed Anderson
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jim Baker" <bakerje(at)kfalls.net>
Subject: 
Prop Balancer
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
      
      
      I am interested in a prop balancer for my RV-4 with a wooden prop if any
      one has one they would be interested in selling. If not where do I find 
      a new one?
      
      Thanks,
      
      Jim Baker
      N513J
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Prop Balancer
      
      
      I have Mark Landoll's  silicon filled 12 pound harmonic balancer on wood
      prop RV4.It works real good. His address is 1205 Rosebud Lane Newcastle
      Ok. 73065  Phone (405)392-3847
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Voltage Issue
      
      
      Mark Landoll sells a voltage regulator and an over voltage diode with
      very clear hookup directions at very compeditive prices.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
From: 
EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 
Re: Raleigh, NC visit
      
      
      If you ever get to Charlotte, NC look me up. Always a place for a spare
      bucker and we have
      a small airport where locals hangout and do a lot of hanger flying and
      lying.
      Earl Fortner, RV4
      
      Mike Thompson wrote:
      
      >
      > Hi Folks,
      >
      > Heading out to Raleigh tomorrow night for a week of work-related
      > meetings at RTP.  Staying at the airport Hilton.
      >
      > Will be there Wed, Thurs nights, available to buck or drive rivets or
      > just gab.
      >
      > Last time I was out there I meandered around the airport
      > (Raleigh-Durham) but found no general aviation.  At what other airports
      > around there do the RV's hang out?
      >
      > Mike Thompson
      > Austin, TX
      > -6 N140RV (Reserved)
      > Firewall Forward  (Yippee!!)
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"alex strickland" <alexs737(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Executive Hangar, Denver CO
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
      
      
      Any one interested in sharing a beautiful executive hangar at Front Range 
      Airport near Denver CO?  Bathroom, tools, very nice!
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: 
Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
      
      
      I just had the opportunity to drill out the hinges that hold the two halves
      of the canopy together and thus do a destructive test of the practice of
      bedding the hinges in fiberglass mat.  The results......it did very
      little.....doing it like I did.  After drilling the rivets out, the hinge
      separated from the fiberglass with little resistance.  The mat firmly bonded
      to the cowl  This is how I did it.
      
      Sanded the cowl and hinge
      Drilled 3/16" holes in the hinge between the rivet holes so the fiberglass
      could squeeze through
      Used two thickness' of fiberglass mat
      Used West System epoxy resin
      
      When I riveted the hinges on, little to no mat came through the holes I
      drilled for that purpose.
      
      I am reinstalling the hinges and am doing the following
      
      Sanded the cowl and hinge
      Drilled 3/16" holes in the hinge between the rivet holes so the fiberglass
      could squeeze through
      Used three thickness' of fiberglass mat
      Used polyester resin
      Put down a layer of resin/microballon/thickener under the hinge
      After riveting, covered the hinge with the same resin/microballon/thickener
      
      I switched to polyester resin because I heard somewhere that the mat may not
      be broken down as well using epoxy resin
      I used the microballon paste to get some bonding through the 3/16 holes I
      drilled.
      
      I hope I won't have to do another destructive test.
      
      I hope it does something because it sure is a pain riveting over
      fiberglass!!!!
      
      
      Now, for those inquiring minds that just have to know......the reason I had
      to tear out my hinges is that I installed them with the wrong angle.  I have
      one of the last of the OLD cowls and didn't have the instructions for
      tilting the hinge to get the zipper effect.  I did the zipper thing not
      thinking that it mattered which way the zipper went.  I had it so the hinge
      eyes extended down from the aft of top cowl and then hidden at the front of
      the top cowl.....wrong!  I couldn't get the top cowl back on after I riveted
      the side hinges on.  Once I saw how the geometry of the thing works, I
      realized that the hinge eyes need to be switched so the eyes are hidden at
      the aft of the top cowl and then exposed at the front of the top cowl.  Now
      you know.
      
      Ross
      6A....if I only had to build it once, I'd be done!!!!
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
From: 
Vanremog(at)AOL.COM
Subject: 
Re: Question re:  machine screw sizes
      
      
      In a message dated Sat, 14 Apr 2001 10:44:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Cy Galley"
       writes:
      
      
      # 10 comes from the size of a # 10 number drill and is NOT decimal.
      
      Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM>
      Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 8:10 PM
      Subject: Re: RV-List: Question re: machine screw sizes
      
      
      >
      > The first no. is the hole size. Each number is referrs to a hole size in
      > decimals and NOT parts of an inche! If you have a Cleveland or Avery Cat
      it
      > will show you exactly what numbers are equal to in decimals. All that
      > (decimals) really does not matter as long as you know that the first
      number
      > is the hole size. The last number is the threads per inch-double check me
      on
      > the last number. Bob
      >
      >
      
      The screw size has nothing to do with the drill size.  A #10 screw (.190") could
      go in a #10 drilled hole (.1935") but only by chance.  A #4 screw (.112" dia)
      certainly wouldn't go properly in a #4 drilled hole (.209").  The numbering
      of screws starts at .060" = 0 (0-80 are often used as the pivot screw in the temples
      of spectacles). Add .013" to this for each screw size up to #12 (.216")
      for the major diameter of the thread form.
      
      For example a #8 would be (.013"*8)+.060" = .164"
      
      -GV
      
      
       >>
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
From: 
Vanremog(at)AOL.COM
Subject: 
Re: Inclination on fuel pump
      
      
      In a message dated Sun, 15 Apr 2001  9:20:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bert murillo
       writes:
      
      
      Hi:
      
         One of the builders came to see my project some
      weeks ago, and call attention to the fact that my
      auxiliary fuel pump did not have the angle of inclina
      tion that should have, according to him.
      Mine is about 5 degrees) he said is very important
      to have about 45o or so.
      
          NOw my question is, how I would cover the holes
      on the fuselage  (4)
      Any one have had that problem?
      >>
      
      Just make an adapter bracket out of .125" thick stock and use it as an interposer
      between the pump and the side of the plane. Countersink the screws that attach
      to the pump and it will rest flat against the inside of the fuse.
      
      -GV
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
From: 
Vanremog(at)AOL.COM
Subject: 
Re: Voltage Issue
      
      
      In a message dated Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:24:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Jones,
      Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com> writes:
      
      
      On the way back from Sun N Fun, my system voltage started going high.  The
      plane has been flying for a year with 150+ hrs with no similar problems
      prior to this.  I have Van's alternator and fixed regulator.  Battery is a
      Concord 22 amp-hr.
      
      Question 1 - Can a bad battery cause the symptoms of a bad voltage
      regulator?
      
      Question 2 - Anyone know of a good source for an automotive voltage
      regulator (car make, model and year)?  >>
      
      Get a B&C regulator and quit worrying.
      
      -GV
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
From: 
"Ted Cross" <n0iak(at)qsl.net>
Subject: 
Re: Which kits to buy first
      
      
      If you're new to sheet metal work, you'll want to start with the emp since a
      mistake won't be all that costly. While I hope you don't actually make a
      mistake, it's always possible while you get the hang of the various construction
      techniques. For that matter it's possible any time, but you get my drift.
      
      Next you'll need the wing kit before the fuse kit since some of the fuse parts
      come in the wing kit, namely the longerons and the main bulkhead, the one that
      mates with the wing spars. This bulkhead is matched to the wing spars and has so
      has to be shipped with the wings. You'll not get very far on the fuse without
      these parts.
      
      Then it's fuse and finishing kit. I ordered both at the same time since
      assembling same together made more sense to me. For example, getting the fuse on
      it's wheels as soon as possible so can move it around the hanger more easily,
      even before  the tail has been attached.
      
      Oh, and before the replies start flying, yes I know, I'll have a balance problem
      if the engine isn't on there. Got a plan there :-).
      
      Have fun and good luck.
      
      Ted
      
      jra wrote:
      
      >
      > I am going to buy the Rv7 kit this June. I am planning on buying 2 kits
      > initially, and I was curious which was I should buy first. The empannage and
      > wing kit or the Emp and the fuselage. This is probably a stupid question,
      > but I couldn't find anything on Van's web page to help me out. Also does
      > anyone have the actual dimensions so that I can compare the cockpits width
      > with the RV6.
      >
      > Jimmy Arnold
      >
      
      --
      Ted Cross (N0IAK & G0HHY)
      n0iak(at)qsl.net
      n0iak(at)amsat.org
      ICQ: 16040894
      N293TC (reserved) RV9A - Wings
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Kelsonhoffrv9(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
Subject: 
Re: kit sequence
      
      
      As an aside to the other comments. I purchased the wing first since I had 
      already built a tail and part of the wing for an RV-6. thought I would jump 
      in and build the RV-9 wing and go back to the tail later. There are 
      references to certain drawings and procedures in the wing instructions that 
      assume you already have the tail kit and drawings. Mostly around how to do 
      the trailing edge pieces and instructions apparently located on drawing #5 
      that comes only with the tail kit. Not a big deal since I could imagine what 
      was being referred to, but an indication that Vans kind of expects you to go 
      in order. Their recent completion of the full preview plans would alleviate 
      the item that I had I would expect. In any case, I'll probably order the tail 
      next.
      
      
      Curt Hoffman  Loveland, OH
      RV-9A (N912WK reserved)
      Working on Wing
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Aileron/gap fairing interference
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
      
      
      Listers,
      
      After a search of the archives, I didn't find an answer to this particular 
      problem, so here goes:  I laid my gap fairing in place and the aileron rubs 
      on it.  After riveting, will the gap fairing tighten up to the rear spar and 
      leave room for the aileron to move?  If I rivet the bottom side of the 
      fairing to the rear spar and drill the top side to the skin and it still 
      interferes, will I be able to adjust the fairing?  Am I being obsessive 
      (again)?  I haven't seen anything related to this issue, so maybe it will be 
      fine once it's riveted in place (hope, hope).
      
      As usual, many thanks in advance for all the great help I've been getting 
      here.
      
      
      Jim Bower
      St. Louis, MO
      RV-6A  N143DJ
      Wings
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: 
Re: Question re:  machine screw sizes
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
      
      
      You are correct about the screw sizes and drill sizes. They don't correspond
      but they aren't decimal either.
      Mea culpa!
      Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <Vanremog(at)AOL.COM>
      Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 8:08 PM
      Subject: Re: RV-List: Question re: machine screw sizes
      
      
      >
      > In a message dated Sat, 14 Apr 2001 10:44:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Cy
      Galley"  writes:
      >
      >
      > # 10 comes from the size of a # 10 number drill and is NOT decimal.
      >
      > Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: <Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM>
      > To: 
      > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 8:10 PM
      > Subject: Re: RV-List: Question re: machine screw sizes
      >
      >
      > >
      > > The first no. is the hole size. Each number is referrs to a hole size in
      > > decimals and NOT parts of an inche! If you have a Cleveland or Avery Cat
      > it
      > > will show you exactly what numbers are equal to in decimals. All that
      > > (decimals) really does not matter as long as you know that the first
      > number
      > > is the hole size. The last number is the threads per inch-double check
      me
      > on
      > > the last number. Bob
      > >
      > >
      >
      > The screw size has nothing to do with the drill size.  A #10 screw (.190")
      could go in a #10 drilled hole (.1935") but only by chance.  A #4 screw
      (.112" dia) certainly wouldn't go properly in a #4 drilled hole (.209").
      The numbering of screws starts at .060" = 0 (0-80 are often used as the
      pivot screw in the temples of spectacles). Add .013" to this for each screw
      size up to #12 (.216") for the major diameter of the thread form.
      >
      > For example a #8 would be (.013"*8)+.060" = .164"
      >
      > -GV
      >
      >
      >  >>
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Emrath" <Emrath(at)home.com>
Subject: 
Re: Aileron/gap fairing interference
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
      
      
      Jim, On my -6A, I had to trim the top flange f the fairing, where it goes
      under the top skin, quite a bit, over 1". It seems to me there is a drawing
      about this and you have to compute the dimension to make the spacing correct
      for your wing. I think Van's calls for 1/4" clearance between the aileron
      and the fairing. You should refer to Frank Justice's notes about this, or
      search the Archives.
      
      Marty in Brentwood, TN  Good Luck.
      
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 9:36 PM
      Subject: RV-List: Aileron/gap fairing interference
      
      
      >
      > Listers,
      >
      > After a search of the archives, I didn't find an answer to this particular
      > problem, so here goes:  I laid my gap fairing in place and the aileron
      rubs
      > on it.  After riveting, will the gap fairing tighten up to the rear spar
      and
      > leave room for the aileron to move?  If I rivet the bottom side of the
      > fairing to the rear spar and drill the top side to the skin and it still
      > interferes, will I be able to adjust the fairing?  Am I being obsessive
      > (again)?  I haven't seen anything related to this issue, so maybe it will
      be
      > fine once it's riveted in place (hope, hope).
      >
      > As usual, many thanks in advance for all the great help I've been getting
      > here.
      >
      >
      > Jim Bower
      > St. Louis, MO
      > RV-6A  N143DJ
      > Wings
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Question re:  machine screw sizes
      
      
      Perhaps my expaination was not clear.  All it takes is looking at set of 
      numbered... and one can see what I was re: to.  Bob
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Daniel Estrada F." <dani_estrada(at)infosel.net.mx>
Subject: 
Electric Elev. Servo..
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
      
      
      Hi every body:
      
      Today I have recieved my electric serrvo for my elevator, but I have a
      doubt:
      
      Is the 8A mac servo ok for the RV7A..?
      
      thanks
      
      Daniel Estrada
      Mexico City
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: 
Re: RV6-List: Westach fuel level system
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      I have the Westach dual fuel gauge. I'm using it with the standard SW float
      senders. I think you need to order a different model of gauge if you get the
      capacitance senders. At any rate, the thing has worked okay for me although
      it has occasionally gone flakey on one tank (jumps between E and the correct
      level) athough this could have just been some crud on the sender or a bad
      ground -- not really sure. It hasn't done that for a while anyway. I mainly
      use it as a "leak detector" anyway since I always check the tanks visually
      plus I have a Matronics FUEL SCAN fuel computer (great device BTW).
      
      I am looking forward to trying out Mitch Robbins' dual digital fuel gauge
      that he has under development. He posted something about it a while back but
      apparently is still working on it.
      
      Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs)
      Portland, OR
      www.vanshomewing.org
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: 
Re: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      Microbaloons makes a lousy filler for anything but thin, cosmetic
      applications, where the item is not subject to flexing. It will make the
      resin weaker not stronger, and should not be used as a bonding agent IMHO.
      
      Instead use milled glass or at the very least, cotton flox. Either one will
      make more of a structural bond. If you bond your hinges with a slurry of
      milled glass fibers and squeeze that stuff through holes in the hinges I'll
      bet you won't be able to get it off.
      
      Also, when you say you sanded the hinges, do you mean you really SANDED
      them? I mean, with 80 or even 60 grit? That's what it takes to make the
      stuff really bond with aluminum.
      
      Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs)
      Portland, OR
      www.vanshomewing.org
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: 
Re: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
      
      
      > Instead use milled glass or at the very least, 
      
      I did add some milled fiberglass as well
      
      > Also, when you say you sanded the hinges, do you mean you really SANDED
      > them? I mean, with 80 or even 60 grit? That's what it takes to make the
      > stuff really bond with aluminum.
      
      Yes
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
From: 
Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: 
Re: Electric Elev. Servo..
      
      
      
      >
      >
      >Hi every body:
      >
      >Today I have recieved my electric serrvo for my elevator, but I have a
      >doubt:
      >
      >Is the 8A mac servo ok for the RV7A..?
      >
      >thanks
      >
      >Daniel Estrada
      >Mexico City
      
      Hola Daniel,
      
      I just looked at the elevator trim system for my RV-8, and it uses 
      the 8A servo.  The elevators for the -4, -6 and -8 are very similar, 
      and I believe the -7 also.  So, I believe you will be fine with that 
      servo.
      
      -- 
      Kevin Horton         RV-8 (mounting wings)
      Ottawa, Canada
      http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
From: 
The Smiths <kpsmith(at)ais.net>
Subject: 
polyester over epoxy
      
      
      Mickey:
      
      A couple suggestions re your plan.  Firstly, polyester does not bond
      well to epoxy.  If you want to go to polyester, get the epoxy off.  As
      an alternative, West System makes another epoxy which is formulated for
      wetting and bonding glass.  It is a little nastier than the normal WEST
      stuff, so wear gloves, but it is superior to use.
      
      Secondly, microbaloons are not a very strong filler.  Milled glass fiber
      or colloidal silica will form a much stronger fill. Milled polyester
      fiber is also stronger than microbaloons, but not as strong as the
      above.  The compromise is that they are heavier and harder to sand.
      This application requires more strength. Gougeon Brothers, the West
      guys, are a good source for this stuff as well.
      
      It sounds like  a report of  stuff done rather than a plan.  Hope it
      works for you.
      
      Ken Smith
      Old RV6 kit sitting idle.
      Plainfield, IL
      
      From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
      Subject: RV-List: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
      
      I am reinstalling the hinges and am doing the following
      
      Sanded the cowl and hinge
      Drilled 3/16" holes in the hinge between the rivet holes so the
      fiberglass
      could squeeze through
      Used three thickness' of fiberglass mat
      Used polyester resin
      Put down a layer of resin/microballon/thickener under the hinge
      After riveting, covered the hinge with the same
      resin/microballon/thickener
      
      I switched to polyester resin because I heard somewhere that the mat may
      not
      be broken down as well using epoxy resin
      I used the microballon paste to get some bonding through the 3/16 holes
      I
      drilled.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Incredible paint job (flames) on the new RV of the Week
From: 
Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
       04/17/2001 08:29:59 AM
      
      
      BTW, thats a hand made cowling. It has an angle valve IO-360 in it and he
      totally built a plug around his engine and used a finished one piece cowl
      to act as a male plug to build his actual cowl. Mike is a real glutton for
      punishment but he sure pulled it out.
      
      By the way, if anyone needa a 220HP angle valve like Mikes there is a 0
      time rebuild with accessorys in S. Fla. Its been rebuilt by my favorite
      local engine guy who has a great rep. He wants $20,000 for the engine.
      
      Call Mark @ Tropic Air Power 561-964-8870
      
      Eric
      
      
      "Reeves, Doug" (at)matronics.com on 04/16/2001
      08:27:02 AM
      
      Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
      
      
      Sent by:  owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
      
      
      cc:
      Subject:  RV-List: Incredible paint job (flames) on the new RV of the Week
      
      
      
      
      Mike Knight sent me both a picture and the specifics of his newly
      completed and painted 200hp RV-6.  If you're in need of some new
      wallpaper for your monitor you might want to see this.
      
      Go to www.vansaircraft.net and click on 'RV of the Week'.
      
      Regards,
      Doug Reeves
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
From: 
pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
       17, 2001) at 04/17/2001 08:42:23 AM
      
      
      It sounds like the failure you describe is an adhesive failure (as opposed
      to a cohesive failure).  The bond failed at the interface between the resin
      and the aluminum.  (A cohesive failure is the structural failure of one of
      the adherends, not the bond interface.)  Assuming this is the case, adding
      fillers to the resin, structural or otherwise, will not improve the
      performance of the bond.  In general, laminating resins such as West System
      resins are not recommended for structural bonding.  Aircraft Spruce and
      others sell structural adhesives for these applications.  I would recommend
      a paste-type adhesive to provide good gap filling qualities given the
      likely interface between hinge and cowl.
      
      Probably more important than the adhesive selection is the surface
      preparation.  Sanding is good, but I like to precede sanding with a
      degreasing step.  After degreasing and sanding, I acid-etch the metal parts
      with Metal Prep 79.  After etching, it is critical to rinse, dry, and bond
      the parts in rapid succession.  A freshly etched surface is very good for
      bonding, but it is not stable in air.  It will quickly oxidize which will
      result in a poor quality bond.  After rinsing parts, you can dry them quite
      quickly using kitchen oven or hair dryer/heat gun.  Of course, as soon as a
      part has been degreased, it should be handled only with gloved hands.
      
      The aerospace industry had developed techniques for treating aluminum
      surfaces to provide good bond qualities and good shelf-stability so it is
      not necessary to make bonds immediately after preparing the surface.
      Unfortunately, these techniques are expensive and require nasty chemicals.
      
      Dean Pichon
      RV-4
      Arlington, MA
      
      
      |--------+---------------------------------->
      |        |          "Ross Mickey"           |
      |        |           |
      |        |          Sent by:                |
      |        |          owner-rv-list-server@mat|
      |        |          ronics.com              |
      |        |                                  |
      |        |                                  |
      |        |          04/16/01 07:42 PM       |
      |        |          Please respond to       |
      |        |          rv-list                 |
      |        |                                  |
      |--------+---------------------------------->
        |                                                                           
                                    |
        |       To:                                          
                                    |
        |       cc:                                                                 
                                    |
        |       bcc:                                                                
                                    |
        |       Subject:     RV-List: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
                              |
      
      
      I just had the opportunity to drill out the hinges that hold the two halves
      of the canopy together and thus do a destructive test of the practice of
      bedding the hinges in fiberglass mat.  The results......it did very
      little.....doing it like I did.  After drilling the rivets out, the hinge
      separated from the fiberglass with little resistance.  The mat firmly
      bonded
      to the cowl  This is how I did it.
      
      Sanded the cowl and hinge
      Drilled 3/16" holes in the hinge between the rivet holes so the fiberglass
      could squeeze through
      Used two thickness' of fiberglass mat
      Used West System epoxy resin
      
      When I riveted the hinges on, little to no mat came through the holes I
      drilled for that purpose.
      
      I am reinstalling the hinges and am doing the following
      
      Sanded the cowl and hinge
      Drilled 3/16" holes in the hinge between the rivet holes so the fiberglass
      could squeeze through
      Used three thickness' of fiberglass mat
      Used polyester resin
      Put down a layer of resin/microballon/thickener under the hinge
      After riveting, covered the hinge with the same resin/microballon/thickener
      
      I switched to polyester resin because I heard somewhere that the mat may
      not
      be broken down as well using epoxy resin
      I used the microballon paste to get some bonding through the 3/16 holes I
      drilled.
      
      I hope I won't have to do another destructive test.
      
      I hope it does something because it sure is a pain riveting over
      fiberglass!!!!
      
      
      Now, for those inquiring minds that just have to know......the reason I had
      to tear out my hinges is that I installed them with the wrong angle.  I
      have
      one of the last of the OLD cowls and didn't have the instructions for
      tilting the hinge to get the zipper effect.  I did the zipper thing not
      thinking that it mattered which way the zipper went.  I had it so the hinge
      eyes extended down from the aft of top cowl and then hidden at the front of
      the top cowl.....wrong!  I couldn't get the top cowl back on after I
      riveted
      the side hinges on.  Once I saw how the geometry of the thing works, I
      realized that the hinge eyes need to be switched so the eyes are hidden at
      the aft of the top cowl and then exposed at the front of the top cowl.  Now
      you know.
      
      Ross
      6A....if I only had to build it once, I'd be done!!!!
      
      
      **** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of
      Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain
      confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee
      only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not
      the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible.****
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: 
Prop Balancer
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
      
      
      Does the Landoll balancer require modification to the spinner?  Does is
      require different prop bolts?  Does it require modification to Van's prop
      extender?
      
      Steve Soule
      O-320 D1A and Aymar Demuth wood prop
      
      -----Original Message-----
      
      I have Mark Landoll's  silicon filled 12 pound harmonic balancer on wood
      prop RV4.It works real good. His address is 1205 Rosebud Lane Newcastle
      Ok. 73065  Phone (405)392-3847
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
More incredible RV flame paint job pictures
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
      Thread-Topic: RV-List: Incredible paint job (flames) on the new RV of the Week
      Thread-Index: AcDG129OcisunjK8EdWALQAIxwleHwAZE+Lw
From: 
"Reeves, Doug" <Douglas.Reeves(at)archongroup.com>
      
      
      Yesterday I sent out an email about Mike Knight's newly painted 200hp
      RV-6 being the 'RV of the Week' on my site.  Over 1,000 people viewed it
      yesterday.  
      
      Through the course of the day yesterday, Mike sent me (5) more images
      from various angles (one of the interior).  If you'd like to see them
      simply go to www.vansaircraft.net and click on 'RV of the Week'.
      
      Thanks and enjoy,
      
      Doug Reeves
      VAF-World Wide Wing
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"James Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com>
Subject: 
Epoxy Cowl Hinge
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
      
      
      Has anybody tried the carbon fiber or fiberglass hinge made by B.G.
      Enterprises?
      It looks like it should work as good or better than trying to get the metal
      hinge to stick to the fiberglass cowl.
      
      Here is a web site... go ALMOST to the bottom of the page to see links to
      some pictures of the stuff, and a couple of PDF pages which describe the
      product well.
      http://www.flash.net/~infaero/
      
      Anxious to see if anybody has used this yet.
      
      jim
      Tampa
      Getting ready for cowl hinges (first time)
      
      
      From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
      Subject: RV-List: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
      
      I am reinstalling the hinges and am doing the following
      
      Sanded the cowl and hinge
      Drilled 3/16" holes in the hinge between the rivet holes so the
      fiberglass
      could squeeze through
      Used three thickness' of fiberglass mat
      Used polyester resin
      Put down a layer of resin/microballon/thickener under the hinge
      After riveting, covered the hinge with the same
      resin/microballon/thickener
      
      I switched to polyester resin because I heard somewhere that the mat may
      not
      be broken down as well using epoxy resin
      I used the microballon paste to get some bonding through the 3/16 holes
      I
      drilled.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
ENewton57(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Prop Balancer
      
      
      In a message dated 4/17/01 7:44:13 AM Central Daylight Time, 
      SSoule(at)pfclaw.com writes:
      
      << Does the Landoll balancer require modification to the spinner?  Does is
       require different prop bolts?  Does it require modification to Van's prop
       extender? >>
      
      Hi Steve,
      I believe the harmonic balancer actually looks like a large ring and bolts to 
      the flywheel out near the starter ring teeth.  If you look at your flywheel 
      you'll see a series of holes around it near the starter teeth ring.  The 
      harmonic balancer looks like a large donut and the center hole of the donut 
      doesn't contact the spacer or the prop.
      Hope this helps
      
      Eric Newton  -  Long Beach, Mississippi
      RV-6A  N57ME (Reserved)  (Finish Kit)
      http://www.ericsrv6a.com
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Prop Balancer
      
      
      The Landoll balancer bolts to the back of the flywheel,does not interfer
      with with anything on my RV4,comes with bolts,nuts,and instructions.I
      recommend the silicon filled one,not the solid ring.They both weigh 12
      pounds.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: 
Re: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
      
      
      Your statement about Microballoons is wrong.  It with stands flexing very
      well. The shaping of the landing gear on Veri-Eze and Long EZ is done with
      micro.  I have used it on fretted aluminum cowlings to rebuild the metal
      thickness. Works very well even on pieces that a flexed when opening or
      closing.  You do need to use good epoxy not boat resin.
      
      Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
      
      
      > Microbaloons makes a lousy filler for anything but thin, cosmetic
      > applications, where the item is not subject to flexing.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
      Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 12:54 AM
      Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
      
      
      >
      > Microbaloons makes a lousy filler for anything but thin, cosmetic
      > applications, where the item is not subject to flexing. It will make the
      > resin weaker not stronger, and should not be used as a bonding agent IMHO.
      >
      > Instead use milled glass or at the very least, cotton flox. Either one
      will
      > make more of a structural bond. If you bond your hinges with a slurry of
      > milled glass fibers and squeeze that stuff through holes in the hinges
      I'll
      > bet you won't be able to get it off.
      >
      > Also, when you say you sanded the hinges, do you mean you really SANDED
      > them? I mean, with 80 or even 60 grit? That's what it takes to make the
      > stuff really bond with aluminum.
      >
      > Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs)
      > Portland, OR
      > www.vanshomewing.org
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
      Thread-Topic: RV-List: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
      Thread-Index: AcDG0kDwERAmtXkjTjixBUiij66wnAAc0jjA
From: 
"Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
      
      
      Folks,
      
      I just want to jump in here and offer some input on what causes hinge
      eyes to break... It sure doesn't hurt to glue the hinges to the cowl
      while riveting them on, but the hinges not being strong enough or bonded
      well enough is not the problem.
      
      In the instructions for the baffles, the directions say to have a gap
      about a half-inch between the baffle and the cowl.  I think that's too
      close.  One of the things I will do differently on the next project is
      increase this distance to no less than an inch, especially around the
      front of the engine where things shake the most.  The problem IMO with
      having the baffle edges too close to the cowl makes the baffle seal more
      rigid, and the obvious result is vibration of the engine is transferred
      directly to the cowl.  And then you get broken hinge eyes.  Watch any
      airplane during shutdown and you will see how much movement there is.  A
      larger gap there with a bigger "flap" of baffle material will still seal
      quite well, and will reduce the amount of vibration transmitted directly
      to the cowling.
      
      Bob Japundza
      RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 113 hours
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Bob Waalkes" <waalkes(at)netnitco.net>
Subject: 
IFR RV's
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
      
      
      Can anyone attest to the stability of an RV8 for IFR flying?  I sat in Van's
      RV8 at S&F last week and it felt like I was look down at the panel - has
      anyone tried tilting it up a little?  Anyone with experience with the new
      EFIS systems?
      
      I trying to layout my panel and debating between a good IFR or simple
      VFR.....
      
      Thanks!
      
      Bob Waalkes
      RV8 QB
      LaPorte, IN
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Garth Shearing" <garth(at)Islandnet.com>
Subject: 
Re: Inclination on fuel pump
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
      
      
      I seem to recall that these fuel pumps have a ball valve which doesn't seat
      properly if not at least 45 degrees from horizontal.  You can buy these
      pumps at automotive stores and the instructions show the same inclination.
      
      Garth Shearing
      VariEze and 75% RV-6A
      
      Subject: Re: RV-List: Inclination on fuel pump
      
      
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Garth Shearing" <garth(at)Islandnet.com>
Subject: 
Re: Blast tubes
Date: 
Apr 16, 2001
      
      
      Don't forget that the blast tubes do not provide blast air when you need it
      the most on some components.  For example, the alternator is working pretty
      hard to recharge the battery after start-up.  But you don't get the
      significant blast air until you are flying.  You need cooling of these
      components most when you are still on the ground on a hot day.
      
      Garth Shearing
      VariEze and 75% RV-6A
      
      Subject: Re: RV-List: Blast tubes
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
From: 
"Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: 
Re: Executive Hangar, Denver CO
      
      
      >
      
      Alex, what are the specifics? like how much room would I have and what would
      the rent be?
      
      --
      Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado
      RV-6A N99PZ Flying
      Engine: Aerosport Power O-360-A1A
      Prop: Sensenich 72FM8S9-1-83
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
From: 
"Gary Gunn" <ggunn(at)uswest.net>
Subject: 
[Fwd: 6000 engine]
      
      
      passing along this info I got from Jabiru.....
      
      
      Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 19:39:26 -0500
      From: "Pete Krotje" <gllp(at)athenet.net>
      Subject: Re: 6000 engine
      
      Hello Gary,
      
      The Jabiru 6000 had a great many RV builders talking at SNF.
      
      For the most complete info, visit www.jabiru.net.au.  The engine should run
      for the first time next week and if things go according to plan we may have
      some to sell at the end of the year.  The first test bed will be a 75%
      Spitfire in AU and the first six are committed to him.  Several RV builders
      in AU are interested as well ands the FWF kit will be developed in one of
      their planes.
      
      We have been locking in prices and order position by taking a prelim order
      with $1000.00 down to be held in escrow.  Initial price is $13,900.00.  The
      down payment is not mixed with our funds and is refundable on request.
      
      If you are interested, I'll send the paperwork.
      
      Pete Krotje
      Jabiru USA Flight Center, LLC
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Gary Gunn" <ggunn(at)uswest.net>
      Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 9:58 AM
      Subject: 6000 engine
      
      
      > Saw your 6000 engine on your web-site. Do you guys have any plans to
      > develop a firewall forward package for the Van's series of kit aircraft?
      > 
      > Thanks
      > Gary Gunn
      > Building a RV-6
      > 
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
From: 
ENewton57(at)AOL.COM
Subject: 
Engine Movement
      
      
      Listers,
      I have a question regarding how much he engine will move during normal operations.
      I am installing the top cowling around my O-320 H2AD engine in my RV-6A and of
      course I must modify the cowling slightly to clear the two buldges in the engine
      at the top front (fuel pump and prop gov. pads).  I have modified the cowling
      and have created about .50" to .75" clearance.  Is this enough?
      
      Thanks,
      Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
      RV-6A - N57ME (reserved) (FWF)
      www.ericsrv6a.com
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
From: 
Garry LeGare <"versadek"@earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Inclination on fuel pump
      
      
      Garth et all,
      The primarily reason for the inclination is to help the pump purge any air or
      fumes that may get in the fuel lines, such as when a tank runs low.  There is
      no ball valve used in these pumps. Instead they use a rounded spring loaded
      disk valve. I don't RECALL this, it is fact. Over the last 20 + years I have
      taken these things apart many times. As a Tech Counselor I was asked to write a
      paper about these pumps and their use in aircraft. I've also flown in excess of
      1000 hr. in aircraft that use this pump, with little to no inclination, as the
      only source of fuel pressure (no engine driven pump).
      This post is not meant to be a personal attack on Garth or anyone else, but THE
      LIST would be a lot more useful, if posters would limit there input on
      technical matters, to what they know to be fact.
      Garry LeGare, EAA 94585
      Tech Consular
      RV6 Finishing
      
      
      Garth Shearing wrote:
      
      >
      > I seem to recall that these fuel pumps have a ball valve which doesn't seat
      > properly if not at least 45 degrees from horizontal.  You can buy these
      > pumps at automotive stores and the instructions show the same inclination.
      >
      > Garth Shearing
      > VariEze and 75% RV-6A
      >
      > Subject: Re: RV-List: Inclination on fuel pump
      >
      > >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
From: 
Garry LeGare <"versadek"@earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
      
      
      A procedure that works is to bed the hinges into a wet flox/epoxy mixture.
      Prep the hinge by drilling 1/4" holes between the eyes, countersink them and
      sand the matting surface with 80 grit. These holes allow the wet flox to
      squeeze out and form little mounds which act like flox rivets. If you clean
      these little mounds off the hinge will just peel off as epoxy is weak in
      peel.
      Garry LeGare, EAA94585
      RV6 Finishing
      Tech Counselor
      
      
      Ross wrote:
      
      >
      > > Instead use milled glass or at the very least,
      >
      > I did add some milled fiberglass as well
      >
      > > Also, when you say you sanded the hinges, do you mean you really SANDED
      > > them? I mean, with 80 or even 60 grit? That's what it takes to make the
      > > stuff really bond with aluminum.
      >
      > Yes
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Re: Engine Movement
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
      
      
      Hey Eric,
      
      I would think that's OK. You will most likely pull positive g's during your 
      flying (I do, anyway)so this will tend to pull the engine down. Also, the 
      mounts will settle slightly after some use. I originally had about 1/4 - 
      3/8" clearance under my alternator pulley & the lower cowl and ended up 
      chewing a slit in the cowl. I finally pulled the prop & put on a smaller 
      belt. Now I have 1/2" or better clearance and no rubbing.
      
      Rick Caldwell
      -6 214 hrs. Looking for places to fly to and RV's to fly with, always.
      Melbourne, FL
      
      
      >From: ENewton57(at)AOL.COM
      >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
      >To: 
      >Subject: RV-List: Engine Movement
      >Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:56:31 EDT
      >
      >
      >Listers,
      >I have a question regarding how much he engine will move during normal 
      >operations.
      >I am installing the top cowling around my O-320 H2AD engine in my RV-6A and 
      >of course I must modify the cowling slightly to clear the two buldges in 
      >the engine at the top front (fuel pump and prop gov. pads).  I have 
      >modified the cowling and have created about .50" to .75" clearance.  Is 
      >this enough?
      >
      >Thanks,
      >Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
      >RV-6A - N57ME (reserved) (FWF)
      >www.ericsrv6a.com
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
MeangreenRV4(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
      
      
      In a message dated 4/17/01 9:23:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
      "versadek"@earthlink.net writes:
      
      
      > 
      > A procedure that works is to bed the hinges into a wet flox/epoxy mixture.
      > Prep the hinge by drilling 1/4" holes between the eyes, countersink them and
      > sand the matting surface with 80 grit. These holes allow the wet flox to
      > squeeze out and form little mounds which act like flox rivets. If you clean
      > these little mounds off the hinge will just peel off as epoxy is weak in
      > peel.
      > Garry LeGare, EAA94585
      > RV6 Finishing
      > Tech Counselor
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      Question....? should the hinge need to be replaced because of some broken 
      eyes, could the hinge be removed without messing up the cowl?
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
From: 
"Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: 
Re: Inclination on fuel pump
      
      
      > THE
      > LIST would be a lot more useful, if posters would limit there input on
      > technical matters, to what they know to be fact.
      >
      
      Fact: the manufacture recomends mounting the pump at a 45 degree angle.
      
      Fact: The pump does not pump very well if not purged of air.
      
      
      --
      Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado
      RV-6A N99PZ Flying
      Engine: Aerosport Power O-360-A1A with H2AD Pistons
      Prop: Sensenich 72FM8S9-1-83
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test resul
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
From: 
Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
      
      
      >
      >
      >In a message dated 4/17/01 9:23:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
      >"versadek"@earthlink.net writes:
      >
      >
      >> 
      >> A procedure that works is to bed the hinges into a wet flox/epoxy mixture.
      >> Prep the hinge by drilling 1/4" holes between the eyes, countersink them and
      >> sand the matting surface with 80 grit. These holes allow the wet flox to
      >> squeeze out and form little mounds which act like flox rivets. If you clean
      >> these little mounds off the hinge will just peel off as epoxy is weak in
      >> peel.
      >> Garry LeGare, EAA94585
      >> RV6 Finishing
      >> Tech Counselor
      >> 
      >> 
      >> 
      >
      >Question....? should the hinge need to be replaced because of some broken 
      >eyes, could the hinge be removed without messing up the cowl?
      >
      >
      
      I think this is a good question.
      
      My experience has been the weak point is the hinge eyes, not hinge to 
      cowl adhesion.  I have replaced several hinge sections due to the eyes 
      breaking but have had no problems with hinges staying on (I drilled holes 
      in the hinge sections and used some epoxy, in addition to the rivets).
      
      Larry Pardue
      Carlsbad, NM
      
      RV-6 N441LP Flying
      http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
From: 
"Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
      
      
      --- Bob Japundza  wrote:
      > 
      > 
      > Folks,
      > 
      > I just want to jump in here and offer some input on what causes hinge
      > eyes to break... It sure doesn't hurt to glue the hinges to the cowl
      > while riveting them on, but the hinges not being strong enough or
      > bonded
      > well enough is not the problem.
      > 
      > In the instructions for the baffles, the directions say to have a gap
      > about a half-inch between the baffle and the cowl.  I think that's
      > too
      > close.  One of the things I will do differently on the next project
      > is
      > increase this distance to no less than an inch, especially around the
      > front of the engine where things shake the most.  The problem IMO
      > with
      > having the baffle edges too close to the cowl makes the baffle seal
      > more
      > rigid, and the obvious result is vibration of the engine is
      > transferred
      > directly to the cowl.  And then you get broken hinge eyes.  Watch any
      > airplane during shutdown and you will see how much movement there is.
      >  A
      > larger gap there with a bigger "flap" of baffle material will still
      > seal
      > quite well, and will reduce the amount of vibration transmitted
      > directly
      > to the cowling.
      > 
      > Bob Japundza
      > RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 113 hours
      
      Bob:
      
      I only have 3/8" clearance around the cowl and baffles.  I have my prop
      balanced.  I am approaching 800 hours without a single cowl hinge
      repair. 
      
      Microballons should NOT be used between hinge and cowl.  It is not
      structural and will end up being the weak point that breaks.
      
      
      ====
      Gary A. Sobek
      "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 
      780+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA 
      http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
      
      Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
      http://auctions.yahoo.com/
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test resul
From: 
Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
       04/17/2001 02:22:09 PM
      
      
      I wonder if the guys using plenums have problems with hinges breaking?
      After all the air pressures are not constantly working on the cowling.
      Anyone know?
      
      Eric
      
      
      Larry Pardue (at)matronics.com on 04/17/2001 01:04:44 PM
      
      Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
      
      
      Sent by:  owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
      
      
      cc:
      Subject:  Re: RV-List: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test resul
      
      
      >
      >
      >In a message dated 4/17/01 9:23:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
      >"versadek"@earthlink.net writes:
      >
      >
      >>
      >> A procedure that works is to bed the hinges into a wet flox/epoxy
      mixture.
      >> Prep the hinge by drilling 1/4" holes between the eyes, countersink them
      and
      >> sand the matting surface with 80 grit. These holes allow the wet flox to
      >> squeeze out and form little mounds which act like flox rivets. If you
      clean
      >> these little mounds off the hinge will just peel off as epoxy is weak in
      >> peel.
      >> Garry LeGare, EAA94585
      >> RV6 Finishing
      >> Tech Counselor
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >Question....? should the hinge need to be replaced because of some broken
      >eyes, could the hinge be removed without messing up the cowl?
      >
      >
      
      I think this is a good question.
      
      My experience has been the weak point is the hinge eyes, not hinge to
      cowl adhesion.  I have replaced several hinge sections due to the eyes
      breaking but have had no problems with hinges staying on (I drilled holes
      in the hinge sections and used some epoxy, in addition to the rivets).
      
      Larry Pardue
      Carlsbad, NM
      
      RV-6 N441LP Flying
      http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com>
Subject: 
Engine Advise
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
      
      
      I'm considering buying an "experimental" lycoming from Dan Brown in Tulsa,
      OK.
      Anyone have any experience with his engines and care to comment on them?
      Thanks,
      Cliff
      RV9 (wings)
      www.barefootpilot.com
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
      Thread-Topic: RV-List: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
      Thread-Index: AcDHaF4Y6VzSiIN4SvC+uuXtQtmzlwACAz/Q
From: 
"Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
      
      
      Gary,
      
      You are definitely an exception.  What's your secret?  Almost every RV
      driver I know personally (including myself) has had to deal with broken
      hinge eyes on the bottom of the cowling.
      
      Bob Japundza
      RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
      
      >I only have 3/8" clearance around the cowl and baffles.  I have my prop
      >balanced.  I am approaching 800 hours without a single cowl hinge
      >repair. 
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Re: Electric Elev. Servo..
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
      
      
      It should be because the -7 empenage is the same as the -8 empenage.
      
      Mike Robertson
      RV-8A
      
      
      >From: "Daniel Estrada F." <dani_estrada(at)infosel.net.mx>
      >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
      >To: 
      >Subject: RV-List: Electric Elev. Servo..
      >Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:22:40 -0600
      >
      >
      >
      >Hi every body:
      >
      >Today I have recieved my electric serrvo for my elevator, but I have a
      >doubt:
      >
      >Is the 8A mac servo ok for the RV7A..?
      >
      >thanks
      >
      >Daniel Estrada
      >Mexico City
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Re: IFR RV's
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
      
      
      Bob,
      
      We have our -8A set up for IFR and I had the chance to make my first 
      instrument approach last week.  IWhile, yes , the panel was a little bit 
      lower than I would like it worked out fine.  I actually found it to be a 
      very stable instrument platform.....at least for me.
      
      Mike Robertson
      RV-8A
      
      
      >From: "Bob Waalkes" <waalkes(at)netnitco.net>
      >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
      >To: "RV LIST" 
      >Subject: RV-List: IFR RV's
      >Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:59:04 -0500
      >
      >
      >Can anyone attest to the stability of an RV8 for IFR flying?  I sat in 
      >Van's
      >RV8 at S&F last week and it felt like I was look down at the panel - has
      >anyone tried tilting it up a little?  Anyone with experience with the new
      >EFIS systems?
      >
      >I trying to layout my panel and debating between a good IFR or simple
      >VFR.....
      >
      >Thanks!
      >
      >Bob Waalkes
      >RV8 QB
      >LaPorte, IN
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
From: 
Scot Stambaugh <sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com>
Subject: 
Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test
        results
      
      
      I hope this isn't a ridiculous suggestion but has anybody tryed the closed 
      eye version of the hinge material.  I can't remember which number is which 
      but the I believe the open eye hinge is MS20257 and closed eye extruded 
      hinge is MS20001.  The closed eye hinge seems like it would be much 
      stronger IMO.  I'm building an F1 Rocket (my first kit plane) and I plan to 
      use the Carbon Hinge previously referenced on this e-mail thread.  The 
      Carbon hinge has closed eyes just like the MS20001 and seems like it would 
      be a more natural bond to the fiberglass cowl halves.  The F1 Rocket uses a 
      flange and fasteners (quarter turn or machine screw) to attach the cowl to 
      the fuselage so I don't need hinges for this part.
      
      scot
      
      
      >
      >Gary,
      >
      >You are definitely an exception.  What's your secret?  Almost every RV
      >driver I know personally (including myself) has had to deal with broken
      >hinge eyes on the bottom of the cowling.
      >
      >Bob Japundza
      >RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
      >
      > >I only have 3/8" clearance around the cowl and baffles.  I have my prop
      > >balanced.  I am approaching 800 hours without a single cowl hinge
      > >repair.
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
From: 
Garry LeGare <"versadek"@earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
      
      
      Meangreen, I hope it's OK to call you by your first name.
      
      I don't know if a broken eye or two is cause for replacement of the hinge. But
      there are many experienced RV flyers on "The List" that will be able to answer
      that question.
      
      If they say it's necessary, here is a relatively painless procedure that will
      spare your paint job.
      
      Grind off the flox mounds that are acting like rivets. Carefully slip a 1 1/4"
      wide wood chisel between the hinge and cowl,  gently pry them apart. You'll be
      surprised at how weak the bond is. Epoxy is very weak in peel as I stated earlier,
      that is why there is an AD for the small Grumman's, to put pop rivets at the end
      of bond lines.
      
      Prepare the new section of hinge by duplicating the eye and hole locations. Take
      a
      Dremmel and grind the rest of the flox nubs off, then Dremmel out 1/2" approx.
      diameter recess where each nub was. The recess should go through the existing flox
      to the inside cowl surface. Lightly sand the mating surface where the old hinge
      met the cowl, with 80 grit.
      
      Scotchbrite or sand the hinge. Paint a light coat of epoxy onto the mating surface
      of the cowl and hinge. Mix up a wet flox/epoxy mixture and fill the recesses with
      it. Be sure the mixture is wet enough to just squeeze out through the holes in
      the
      hinge. Clamp the hinge in place, making sure there is good squeeze out through
      each hole. You want the epoxy/flox mix to form a domed head like a rivet.
      
      Hope this helps.
      Garry LeGare, EAA94585
      Tech Counselor
      RV6 Finishing
      
      
      MeangreenRV4(at)AOL.COM wrote:
      
      >
      > In a message dated 4/17/01 9:23:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
      > "versadek"@earthlink.net writes:
      >
      > >
      > > A procedure that works is to bed the hinges into a wet flox/epoxy mixture.
      > >
      >
      > Question....? should the hinge need to be replaced because of some broken
      > eyes, could the hinge be removed without messing up the cowl?
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
From: 
Garry LeGare <"versadek"@earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Inclination on fuel pump
      
      
      Gary,
      Yes it is a fact that the manufacture now (they didn't always) recommends
      that the pumps be mounted at a inclination of 45 . I also recommend
      installing the pump with some inclination to help purge fumes from the pump
      body.
      But in over 1000 hr. of flying I never experienced a fuel pump problem,
      except for the transistor dying.
      You forgot one other thing the manufacture recommends, Not to use these
      pumps in aircraft.
      Garry LeGare EAA 94585
      Tech Counselor
      RV6 Finishing
      
      
      Gary Zilik wrote:
      
      >
      > > THE
      > > LIST would be a lot more useful, if posters would limit there input on
      > > technical matters, to what they know to be fact.
      > >
      >
      > Fact: the manufacture recomends mounting the pump at a 45 degree angle.
      >
      > Fact: The pump does not pump very well if not purged of air.
      >
      > --
      > Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado
      > RV-6A N99PZ Flying
      > Engine: Aerosport Power O-360-A1A with H2AD Pistons
      > Prop: Sensenich 72FM8S9-1-83
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Ferdfly(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test resul
      
      
      In a message dated 4/17/01 11:25:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
      Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com writes:
      
      
      > 
      > I wonder if the guys using plenums have problems with hinges breaking?
      > After all the air pressures are not constantly working on the cowling.
      > Anyone know?
      > 
      > 
      
                   I have a (home made) plenum, so far in 200 hrs no problem.  I 
      would like to mention I had a hinge start to seperate from the cowl. I 
      removed it and remounted it with pro seal,,,,,, end of problem.
      
                   Fred LaForge RV-4 180 CS  EAA tech counselor
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Inclination on fuel pump
      
      
      My electric fuel pump is mounted level at +450 hours still works great.
      I guess it's to dumb to know it should be mounted at 45 degrees to work
      right.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
MeangreenRV4(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
      
      
      In a message dated 4/17/01 2:12:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
      "versadek"@earthlink.net writes:
      
      
      > 
      > Meangreen, I hope it's OK to call you by your first name.
      > 
      > I don't know if a broken eye or two is cause for replacement of the hinge. 
      > But
      > there are many experienced RV flyers on "The List" that will be able to 
      > answer
      > that question.
      > 
      > If they say it's necessary, here is a relatively painless procedure that 
      > will
      > spare your paint job.
      > 
      > Grind off the flox mounds that are acting like rivets. Carefully slip a 1 
      > 1/4"
      > wide wood chisel between the hinge and cowl,  gently pry them apart. You'll 
      > be
      > surprised at how weak the bond is. Epoxy is very weak in peel as I stated 
      > earlier,
      > that is why there is an AD for the small Grumman's, to put pop rivets at 
      > the end
      > of bond lines.
      > 
      > Prepare the new section of hinge by duplicating the eye and hole locations. 
      > Take a
      > Dremmel and grind the rest of the flox nubs off, then Dremmel out 1/2" 
      > approx.
      > diameter recess where each nub was. The recess should go through the 
      > existing flox
      > to the inside cowl surface. Lightly sand the mating surface where the old 
      > hinge
      > met the cowl, with 80 grit.
      > 
      > Scotchbrite or sand the hinge. Paint a light coat of epoxy onto the mating 
      > surface
      > of the cowl and hinge. Mix up a wet flox/epoxy mixture and fill the 
      > recesses with
      > it. Be sure the mixture is wet enough to just squeeze out through the holes 
      > in the
      > hinge. Clamp the hinge in place, making sure there is good squeeze out 
      > through
      > each hole. You want the epoxy/flox mix to form a domed head like a rivet.
      > 
      > Hope this helps.
      > Garry LeGare, EAA94585
      > Tech Counselor
      > RV6 Finishing
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      Hey Garry, Meangreen is the name of my RV-4 my name is Tim but I will answer 
      to about anything,  the reason I responded to your post is in my area 
      (Bakersfield) nobody epoxies the hinge to the cowl (only rivets) so if and 
      when a hinge cracks/brakes you just rivet on a new hinge or piece of one, I 
      might add to the best of my knowledge there has not been any problems like 
      that. I was more interested in is if one does epoxy the hinge to the cowl and 
      there is a hinge failure can you remove the old hinge without screwing up the 
      cowl? As for me my plane is new and at this time I have not had any of those 
      problems.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
From: 
joe wiza <jwiza1(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Re: Engine Movement
      
      
      As my engine mounts settled inI found the front of the
      engine dropped approx 1/4-3/8". installing a washer on
      the bottom of the mounts corrected the problem
      
                                 Joe RV6A O360 c/s
      
      
      --- ENewton57(at)AOL.COM wrote:
      > 
      > Listers,
      > I have a question regarding how much he engine will
      > move during normal operations.
      > I am installing the top cowling around my O-320 H2AD
      > engine in my RV-6A and of course I must modify the
      > cowling slightly to clear the two buldges in the
      > engine at the top front (fuel pump and prop gov.
      > pads).  I have modified the cowling and have created
      > about .50" to .75" clearance.  Is this enough?
      > 
      > Thanks,
      > Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
      > RV-6A - N57ME (reserved) (FWF)
      > www.ericsrv6a.com
      > 
      > 
      >
      > through
      >
      > http://www.matronics.com/archives
      > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
      >
      > Matronics!
      >
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
From: 
"Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
      
      
      --- Bob Japundza  wrote:
      > 
      > 
      > Gary,
      > 
      > You are definitely an exception.  What's your secret?  Almost every
      > RV
      > driver I know personally (including myself) has had to deal with
      > broken
      > hinge eyes on the bottom of the cowling.
      > 
      > Bob Japundza
      > RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
      > 
      > >I only have 3/8" clearance around the cowl and baffles.  I have my
      > prop
      > >balanced.  I am approaching 800 hours without a single cowl hinge
      > >repair. 
      > 
      
      NO HINGE on the bottom of the cowl or behind the spinner.  Used 0.063
      and #10 (3/16") washer head screws.  0.063 that is rivited to the
      firewalll has a 7 degree bend to meet the cowl flush.  This was done by
      Jerry Scott on his first RV-6 over 8 years ago to fix bottom hinge
      breaking.  Should be in the archives.
      
      The hinge is per plans between the cowl top, bottom, and firewall side.
       The top hinge along the firewall removes from the outside instead of
      through the oil fill door.  I do have metal hinge pin hold down plates
      that help hold the top and bottom cowl together and keep the hinge pin
      from coming out into the spinner.  Paul Besing (spelling) took photos
      of this at Copperstate in 1999.
      
      The engine was REBUILT and balanced.  The prop was also balanced on the
      airplane.
      
      
      ====
      Gary A. Sobek
      "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 
      780+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA 
      http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
      
      Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
      http://auctions.yahoo.com/
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Key West Trip online (pics) / 50 more pics of M.Knights flaming
      red RV 
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
      Thread-Topic: Key West Trip online (pics) / 50 more pics of M.Knights flaming red
      RV 
      Thread-Index: AcDHqUbYTSLZedi3Q/+z5a31r7GCgg=
From: 
"Reeves, Doug" <Douglas.Reeves(at)archongroup.com>
      
      
      Hi listers,
      
      Two new items on the World Wide Wing (www.vansaircraft.net) that you
      won't want to miss:
      
      HEY MON
      Randy Pflanzer (RV-6 N417G) wrote an incredible travel story about his
      recent trip to Sun-n-Fun and then down to Key West with his son (lots of
      pictures).  This is the travel story to email to those friends wondering
      why you're building a plane.  I think you'll agree this should be
      required reading by all - Randy did a great job.  It's in 'Travel
      Stories'.
      
      SOME LIKE IT HOT
      Michael Knight (Mr. 200hp Flaming Hot RV-6) just uploaded 50 images of
      his beautiful new RV to his newly created free clubphoto account.
      Mike's RV was just featured as the 'RV of the Week'.  He uploaded many,
      many shots of his bright red leather interior, panel, and flames on the
      cowl and tail.  I've added a link to these pictures in 'Photo Gallery'.
      
      Finally, I'd like to give a great big public thank you to Randy Pflanzer
      and Michael Knight for providing RV content for the community at large
      to enjoy and draw inspiration from and to Matt Dralle for providing such
      an efficient way to let all the RV folks know about it.
      
      Regards,
      
      Doug Reeves
      Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
      www.vansaircraft.net
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"George Armstrong" <armstrong(at)coastside.net>
Subject: 
Dream Machines Show
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
      
      
      The annual Dream Machines show is scheduled for 4/29 in Half Moon Bay CA
      (HAF).  Every sort of machine will be there including the Northrop Flying
      Wing.  Cars, boats, motorcycles tractor pulls...  By most estimates, 400
      aircraft were there last year.  $10 per person entrance fee.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: 
Re: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      > Your statement about Microballoons is wrong.  It with stands flexing very
      > well. The shaping of the landing gear on Veri-Eze and Long EZ is done with
      > micro.  I have used it on fretted aluminum cowlings to rebuild the metal
      > thickness. Works very well even on pieces that a flexed when opening or
      > closing.  You do need to use good epoxy not boat resin.
      
      Okay its probably the resin, but my wheel pants, on the inside corners, have
      started to show some cracks. Only where I have microbaloons. Sure could be
      the polyester resin though.
      
      Randall
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: 
Re: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      > You are definitely an exception.  What's your secret?  Almost every RV
      > driver I know personally (including myself) has had to deal with broken
      > hinge eyes on the bottom of the cowling.
      
      I am another exception. Might be because I didn't use a hinge on the bottom
      of the cowl -- instead put in .063 AL flanges and six #10 nutplates/screws
      :-)
      
      Seriously though, I think a lot of the hinge breaking could be prevented by
      taking the time to smooth those sharp inside corners of the hinge segments
      before installing, using some folded up 350 or 400 grit sandpaper.
      
      Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs)
      Portland, OR
      www.vanshomewing.org
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 17, 2001
From: 
Thomas McIntyre <bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Dream Machines Show
      
      
      Of the so called 400 airplanes there last year, about 30 were on display. The
      rest were fly ins parked away from the show area.  If you read carefully the
      Northrop flying wing scheduled to be there is an RC model.
      Tom
      
      George Armstrong wrote:
      
      >
      > The annual Dream Machines show is scheduled for 4/29 in Half Moon Bay CA
      > (HAF).  Every sort of machine will be there including the Northrop Flying
      > Wing.  Cars, boats, motorcycles tractor pulls...  By most estimates, 400
      > aircraft were there last year.  $10 per person entrance fee.
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
From: 
Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: 
Re: Alternate engines
      
      
      >
      >Jim Sears wrote:
      >>If the engine is certified, it will have had to have gone
      >>  through testing to get that. 
      >
      >What does certification testing consist of ?
      >
      >Hal Kempthorne
      >RV6a N7HK (Valentine)  FLYING
      >
      
      Have a look at FAR 33, Sub-part D, in particular, 33.49 Endurance 
      Test.  It is too long to post here.  You can find FAR 33 at 
      http://www.landings.com/  Go to the bottom of the page, and select 
      Regulations.
      
      There is probably one or more Advisory Circulars that deal with this 
      stuff two, but I can't find them on the web.
      -- 
      Kevin Horton         RV-8 (mounting wings)
      Ottawa, Canada
      http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
ENewton57(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
      
      
      In a message dated 4/17/01 10:41:00 PM Central Daylight Time, 
      randallh(at)home.com writes:
      
      << > Your statement about Microballoons is wrong.  It with stands flexing very
       > well. The shaping of the landing gear on Veri-Eze and Long EZ is done with
       > micro.  I have used it on fretted aluminum cowlings to rebuild the metal
       > thickness. Works very well even on pieces that a flexed when opening or
       > closing.  You do need to use good epoxy not boat resin.
      
       Okay its probably the resin, but my wheel pants, on the inside corners, have
       started to show some cracks. Only where I have microbaloons. Sure could be
       the polyester resin though.
        >>
      
      I have some experience in this area having worked on composite airplanes so 
      perhaps I can make a contribution.  Microbaloons mixed with resin can be used 
      to fill or shape in all non structural applications but will not work well as 
      an adhesive.  Where strength is a factor use flox (cotton fibers) mixed with 
      epoxy resin.  For structural adhesion of two pieces to each other use two 
      part epoxy adhesive (on the aircraft I built this stuff was used to attach 
      the horizontal stabilizer to the fuselage).
      If you want it to stay put, use adhesive, not filler. 
      
      Eric Newton  -  Long Beach, Mississippi
      RV-6A  N57ME (Reserved)  (Finish Kit)
      http://www.ericsrv6a.com
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Facet Fuel pumps
From: 
Rick_Smith(at)tivoli.com
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      The electric Facet fuel pumps are designed so the internal plunger rotates
      while in service only when the pump is mounted at a 45 degree angle.  This
      increases the pump life by a factor of 3 according to a facet rep who
      recently posted this information on the Long EZ list.   He implied that if
      tyhe pumps are installed level then they should be replaced ever 300 hours
      of operation.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: 
Re: Alternate engines
Date: 
- - - , 20- 
      
      
      >Have a look at FAR 33, Sub-part D, in particular, 33.49 Endurance 
      >Test.  It is too long to post here.  You can find FAR 33 at 
      >http://www.landings.com/  Go to the bottom of the page, and select 
      >Regulations.
      
      I just dug out my ASA FAR/AMT and found that FAR 33 has some very 
      good information, if one is really interested in the certification process of 
      an engine.  Granted, there's quite a bit to read; but, it looks interesting 
      for those who have the time and desire to read it.   
      
      Jim Sears in KY
      RV-6A N198JS
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: 
Alternate engines
Date: 
- - - , 20- 
      
      
      Listers, 
      
      Below is a note I just got off the Grumman Gang list.  Since we're 
      already discussing alternate engines, I thought this might whet your 
      interests, as well.  
         
      Jim Sears in KY
      RV-6A N198JS
      
      >>
      Gang,
      
      I was following the discussion about an MT-Prop for Tigers in this 
      newsgroup closely and I'm very sorry I was only able to deliver the 
      bad news for US registered Tigers a couple weeks ago.  Still, I've 
      noticed a significant desire within the group not only to update
      our avionics to state-of-the-art equippment, but also to update and 
      improve our aging power plants, hence to improve performance.
      
      Here in Europe, where fuel prices generate a stong demand for more
      economical engines two companies competed in the race for the first
      certified jet-fuel-driven diesel aircraft engine (yes, Jet Fuel for a piston
      diesel: Imagine the "Jet A1" sticker in a Tiger-wing!!).  One company 
      named Thielert Aircraft Engines, has now made the race and
      archieved FAA and JAR certification for a turbo charged diesel 
      engine, that from it's performance characteristics, can replace O320 
      and O360 engines (www.thielert.de).   They're putting it into PA28 
      and C172 airframes here in Europe right now, other airframes are to 
      follow up.
      
      Performance, of course is impressive, range nearly doubles and TBO 
      soars to 3,000 hrs, with an engine cost of  $ 17,000 for the engine 
      (C172N).  The whole installation consists of the engine, and an 
      MT-electrical CS-Prop.  The fuel system remains unchanges, but the 
      engine mounts are replaced, so you would probably end up with a 
      25k to 30k bill.  Fuel consumption is is about 13 l/h (= 3.6 GALS/h) 
      with full cuise power available up to 11,000 ft.
      
      I don't want to speculate about what numbers an engine like this will 
      take our Grummans to, but you can figure yourself that cutting the 
      fuel consumption by 50% will... well pretty much double the range 
      and reduce the cost of flying SIGNIFICANTLY.
      
      So why am I writing all this and raising hopes? There is the most 
      important aviation industrie fair here in Europe commping up next 
      week and as a writer for a large aviation magazine I will of course 
      meet the people from TAE as well.  I would like to give these people 
      a very rough estimate on what MAYBE the demand in the US could 
      look like.  I am considering Grumman owners as the ideal people to 
      ask. We are usually very keen on performance and economical flying 
      (this is why we have Grummans - right?).
      
      So what do you think?? Would you or people you know spend $20K 
      - $25K for an engine/CS-Prop combination that is new in the market, 
       and that well.. let's say:
      - Doubles your range ?
      - Reduces costs per hour by 65% ?
      - Gives you turbo-charged cruise power all the way up to the levels ?
      
      How much are aircraft owners like you willing to take the risks 
      associated with putting an engine in your Aircraft that has not 40 
      years of parctical tests to look back to??
      
      How many would replace their engine right away and how many 
      would rather replace when the next overhaul is due??
      
      Thanks for your feedback,
      
      BTW: I don't take orders for TAE, but my Tiger will be one of the fist 
      ones to have a TAE engine installed if we can gather 5-7 AA5 
      airframes together...
      
      rgds,
      jb
      
      -- 
      Jan Brill
      Marstallweg 9
      CH-8005 Zurich, Switzerland
      
      Doppelraab-Glider   D-5412
      Grumman Tiger AA5B  N18AP<<
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: 
Re: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      You are completely right about using Flox for applications that need
      strength.  For finishing or filling, the micro is the preferred material as
      it sands much easier. Burt Rutan had very strict rules as to which he wanted
      in his plans.
      
      Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <ENewton57(at)AOL.COM>
      Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 7:13 AM
      Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
      
      
      >
      > In a message dated 4/17/01 10:41:00 PM Central Daylight Time,
      > randallh(at)home.com writes:
      >
      > << > Your statement about Microballoons is wrong.  It with stands flexing
      very
      >  > well. The shaping of the landing gear on Veri-Eze and Long EZ is done
      with
      >  > micro.  I have used it on fretted aluminum cowlings to rebuild the
      metal
      >  > thickness. Works very well even on pieces that a flexed when opening or
      >  > closing.  You do need to use good epoxy not boat resin.
      >
      >  Okay its probably the resin, but my wheel pants, on the inside corners,
      have
      >  started to show some cracks. Only where I have microbaloons. Sure could
      be
      >  the polyester resin though.
      >   >>
      >
      > I have some experience in this area having worked on composite airplanes
      so
      > perhaps I can make a contribution.  Microbaloons mixed with resin can be
      used
      > to fill or shape in all non structural applications but will not work well
      as
      > an adhesive.  Where strength is a factor use flox (cotton fibers) mixed
      with
      > epoxy resin.  For structural adhesion of two pieces to each other use two
      > part epoxy adhesive (on the aircraft I built this stuff was used to attach
      > the horizontal stabilizer to the fuselage).
      > If you want it to stay put, use adhesive, not filler.
      >
      > Eric Newton  -  Long Beach, Mississippi
      > RV-6A  N57ME (Reserved)  (Finish Kit)
      > http://www.ericsrv6a.com
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: 
Dream Machines Show
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      Talk about your misleading advertising!  One of the local radio stations has
      been running ads that tout the fact that the flying wing is going to be
      there.  I would be incredibly p*ssed off if I went there and found only an
      RC model!  
      
      --
      Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
      Network Administrator
      Union Safe Deposit Bank
      209-946-5116
      
      
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From:        Thomas McIntyre [mailto:bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net]
                      Sent:        Tuesday, April 17, 2001 9:53 PM
                      To:        rv-list(at)matronics.com
                      Subject:        Re: RV-List: Dream Machines Show
      
      
      
                      Of the so called 400 airplanes there last year, about 30
      were on display. The
                      rest were fly ins parked away from the show area.  If you
      read carefully the
                      Northrop flying wing scheduled to be there is an RC model.
                      Tom
      
                      George Armstrong wrote:
      
      
                      >
                      > The annual Dream Machines show is scheduled for 4/29 in
      Half Moon Bay CA
                      > (HAF).  Every sort of machine will be there including the
      Northrop Flying
                      > Wing.  Cars, boats, motorcycles tractor pulls...  By most
      estimates, 400
                      > aircraft were there last year.  $10 per person entrance
      fee.
                      >
      
      
              
              
              
              
      
      
                      
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      Thread-Topic: RV-List: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
      Thread-Index: AcDHwca+V/eXHZZURmGkbPiG704rZgATUeTQ
From: 
"Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
      
      
      I'd say doing what you guys have done is the way to go...leave the
      hinges out of the bottom and use screws or camlocs down there.
      
      One other thing I'd like to mention is there is a lot less shaking of
      the engine during shutdown if the engine is at a high idle.  Even with
      my balanced prop and electronic ignition if I idle anywhere below 575
      RPM I can watch the panel shake sideways, with everything creaking and
      moaning.  I'll notice little black trails of smoke coming from the
      hinges around the firewall after a flight doing touch and go's on our
      grass strip, but on x-country flights I hardly ever notice any smoking
      of the hinges.  So, I can say with my experience it's not airloads that
      kill the hinges, it's definitely from the engine shaking.  I have a
      small crack around the front of the carb scoop where it is bonded to the
      cowl, and the only way I can figure how the crack appeared is due the
      proximity of the airbox to the scoop (quarter-inch gap between the
      airbox and the inside wall of the inlet).  I'd have a larger gap in
      there too next time around.  
      
      Bob Japundza
      RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying  113 hours
      
       -----Original Message-----
      From:         Randall Henderson [mailto:randallh(at)home.com] 
      Sent:        Thursday, April 19, 2001 10:39 PM
      Subject:        Re: RV-List: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive
      test results
      
      
      > You are definitely an exception.  What's your secret?  Almost every RV
      > driver I know personally (including myself) has had to deal with
      broken
      > hinge eyes on the bottom of the cowling.
      
      I am another exception. Might be because I didn't use a hinge on the
      bottom
      of the cowl -- instead put in .063 AL flanges and six #10
      nutplates/screws
      :-)
      
      Seriously though, I think a lot of the hinge breaking could be prevented
      by
      taking the time to smooth those sharp inside corners of the hinge
      segments
      before installing, using some folded up 350 or 400 grit sandpaper.
      
      Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs)
      Portland, OR
      www.vanshomewing.org
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: 
METO fuel configuration
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      Listers,
      
      As I scramble to get all final details ready for first flight I have a
      question about something my DAR wants. When I do my W&B sheet with sample
      configurations he asked specifically for a METO configuration. He gave me a
      copy of the checklist he uses, following is what it says...
      
      "Aircraft weighted empty - MINIMUM FUEL. Minimum fuel for balance purposes
      is 1/12 gallon per Maximum-Except-Takeoff-Horsepower (METO), and is the
      maximum amount of fuel which could be used in weight and balance
      computations when low fuel might adversly affect the most critical balance
      conditions. To determine the weight of fuel in punds divide the METO
      horsepower by two. AC43.13-1A, Chapter 13 paragraph 657. 0.
      Maximum weight
      Datum line - Forward and aft C.G. with load limits for crew baggage - check
      figures"
      
      This is a bit confusing to me, and also I have AC43.13-1B, which is dated
      9/98, rather than 1A, which doesn't even have a Chapter 13. Anyone have any
      idea what he's after? He was fairly adamant that I include this.
      
      Thanks,
      Randy Lervold
      RV-8, #80500, first flight soon
      www.rv-8.com
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
From: 
Garry LeGare <"versadek"@earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test results
      
      
      Randall,
      You hit the nail on the head. It is probably the polyester resin. Polyester
      shrinks more on initial cure than epoxy. It is much more susceptible to
      vibration induced cracking as well (fiberglass wing tips, fairing etc on older
      certified aircraft). And most importantly it is a poor adhesive. As others have
      stated Microballoon/epoxy makes a great non structural filler as long as you
      don't mix it to dry (it won't stick well). For structural applications
      flox/epoxy is my personal choice. The nice thing about these do it your self
      filler concoctions is you can tailor the viscosity to a particular job at hand.
      Personal I will not use polyester resin on an aircraft.
      Garry LeGare EAA94585
      Tech Counselor
      RV6 Finishing Without Polyester Resin.
      
      Randall Henderson wrote:
      
      >
      > > Your statement about Microballoons is wrong.  It with stands flexing very
      > > well. The shaping of the landing gear on Veri-Eze and Long EZ is done with
      > > micro.  I have used it on fretted aluminum cowlings to rebuild the metal
      > > thickness. Works very well even on pieces that a flexed when opening or
      > > closing.  You do need to use good epoxy not boat resin.
      >
      > Okay its probably the resin, but my wheel pants, on the inside corners, have
      > started to show some cracks. Only where I have microbaloons. Sure could be
      > the polyester resin though.
      >
      > Randall
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
From: 
Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Boost Pump Placement
      
      
      I intend to install an Airflow Performance fuel injection system in my
      RV-6A. The instruction manual recommends NOT installing the boost pump
      in the engine compartment. That leaves the options of putting it in the
      cockpit or in the wing root. It is a fairly large assembly.
      
      Any recommendations?
      
      Are there any photos out there of FI boost pump installations? 
      
      Charlie
      San Antonio
      RV-6AQB - N11CB (reserved)
      Canopy
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Todd" <tmrv6(at)netzero.net>
Subject: 
Re: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test resul
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      I have had a Sam James Plenum installed for about 250 hours now. The only
      attach at the front of the cowling is 1 #8 screw each side. Standard hinges
      in all other locations. No movement/breakage(or evidence of) yet....
      
      PS the hinges on the fuselage side have 500+ hours on them (new cowling at
      250 hours).
      
      Todd   RV6 N92TM 160HP Aymar Demuth 500+ hrs in Southern MD
      
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 2:18 PM
      Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test resul
      
      
      >
      >
      > I wonder if the guys using plenums have problems with hinges breaking?
      > After all the air pressures are not constantly working on the cowling.
      > Anyone know?
      >
      > Eric
      >
      
      
      NetZero Platinum
      No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access
      Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
      http://www.netzero.net
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"John Warren" <jwdub(at)teleport.com>
Subject: 
Re: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test resul
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      Regarding hinge eyes breaking, Bob Haan (Homewing Group) mentioned this
      problem and thought he'd found the reason.  When a hinge eye is viewed
      through a hand magnifying lens you can see stress cracks on many of them at
      the start of the curl from the flat part of the hinge.
      He dresses these with a file and emery cloth.  His plane is not flying yet,
      so haven't confirmed that this is a solution -- but it seems reasonable.
      
      John Warren
      RV-6Q
      LaCenter, WA
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
      Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 10:04 AM
      Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test resul
      
      
      >
      > >
      > >
      > >In a message dated 4/17/01 9:23:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
      > >"versadek"@earthlink.net writes:
      > >
      > >
      > >>
      > >> A procedure that works is to bed the hinges into a wet flox/epoxy
      mixture.
      > >> Prep the hinge by drilling 1/4" holes between the eyes, countersink
      them and
      > >> sand the matting surface with 80 grit. These holes allow the wet flox
      to
      > >> squeeze out and form little mounds which act like flox rivets. If you
      clean
      > >> these little mounds off the hinge will just peel off as epoxy is weak
      in
      > >> peel.
      > >> Garry LeGare, EAA94585
      > >> RV6 Finishing
      > >> Tech Counselor
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > >Question....? should the hinge need to be replaced because of some broken
      > >eyes, could the hinge be removed without messing up the cowl?
      > >
      > >
      >
      > I think this is a good question.
      >
      > My experience has been the weak point is the hinge eyes, not hinge to
      > cowl adhesion.  I have replaced several hinge sections due to the eyes
      > breaking but have had no problems with hinges staying on (I drilled holes
      > in the hinge sections and used some epoxy, in addition to the rivets).
      >
      > Larry Pardue
      > Carlsbad, NM
      >
      > RV-6 N441LP Flying
      > http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
From: 
"Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: 
Re: Fiberglassing Cowl Hinges...destructive test resul
      
      
      Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com wrote:
      
      >
      > I wonder if the guys using plenums have problems with hinges breaking?
      > After all the air pressures are not constantly working on the cowling.
      > Anyone know?
      >
      > Eric
      >
      
      I have a home made aluminum plenum on my  RV-6A. Engine is an O-360 swinging a
      Sensenich 72FM prop. The hinges on the bottom have lost 3 ears each on the
      cowl side of the hinge. All other hinges are ok. When I was building I  was
      under the assumption that the 6's loose bottom hinges more than the 4's due to
      the large flat bottom of the cowl catching the pulses from the prop. CS props
      had more of a tendency than wood props to break hinges. The hinge behind the
      spinner was also a week point but that has been taken care of on the new
      S-type cowls with the use of nutplates and screws in this area. The vertical
      cowl to fuselage hinges have not been much of a problem and the same can be
      said of the horizontal cowl hinges. Few break. When I finally have to replace
      the bottom hinges I plan on nutplates and scews. I would stick with the hinges
      everwhere else as they are effective and low in cost.
      
      Gary Zilik
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
From: 
"Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: 
Re: Inclination on fuel pump
      
      
      Garry LeGare wrote:
      
      >
      > You forgot one other thing the manufacture recommends, Not to use these
      > pumps in aircraft.
      
      In big letters too!
      
      Gary
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Alternate engines
              date.)
      
      
      I wish these people good sucess but I keep remembering people like a man
      and his son who installed a Ford V6 in an RV4.It burned more fuel
      (heavier) than a Lycosaur. There were many more problems than just
      cooling and CG.  
      
      
      Bob Murphy  Poplar Grove ILL. (C77)
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
Subject: 
Red Wing
      
      
      Is the flyin for the 21st. still on? I read about the flooding in that
      area and I wonder. Can someone who lives in that area let us know?
      
      Bob Murphy  Poplar Grove ILL. (C77)
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
From: 
Thomas Velvick <tomvelvick(at)home.com>
Subject: 
Re: fuel pump inclination
      
      
      >
      >    I know I have to mount the pump, with a more
      >pronounced  angle, something like 45o or so..
      >So I have to drill new holes...any suggestions
      >as to what is best to closed the old holes?
      
      Hi Bert,
      Dont know if this could work for you.  Could you reuse one of your holes 
      and then rotate the pump to the proper angle so you would only have one 
      hole to deal with?  Depending on where the other hole would be, could you 
      use it for
      a:    Fuel line from wing
      b:    Pitot heat wiring to wing
      c:    Nav or strobe wiring to wing
      d:    vent to fuel tank
      e:    outside temp probe wiring
      
      If you cant use it for anything, you could just stick a bolt through it and 
      put a nut on the outside.  Attach a angle to the outside of the bolt and 
      use it for support for some of your wiring or plumbing from your wing if 
      needed.
      
      f:  None of the above, I give up. 
      
      Regards,
      Tom Velvick
      Peoria, AZ
      N9233A rv-4
      N188KJ rv-6a wiring panel
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: 
Re: Red Wing
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      Yes, The Twin Cities RV Forum is certainly still on.  The airport is far
      from the river and the only fear had been that the bridge linking WI and Red
      Wing, MN could possibly close.  I checked this morning and it appears that
      the river level is stable and they are predicting that the road will stay
      open.
      
      Terry Jantzi (world RV altitude record holder) and Wolf Irmscher (WWII
      German fighter pilot) will be our banquet guest speakers (they are en route
      from Toronto today).  Geo and Becki Orndorff along with Larry Vetterman will
      be on the program.  Powersport Aviation will be bringing their rotary engine
      on a test stand.  Jerry Van Grunsven will be there representing Van's
      Aircraft.
      
      We have a great array of door prizes lined up with a Grand Prize drawing at
      2 pm.  At 10 am Becki Orndorff will present a program for the wives (with
      RV-6 and RV-8 rides for them weather permitting).  Best RV award will be
      presented at 2 pm. (Did I mention, coffee, donuts, etc in the morning.
      Lunch available at noon)
      
      So, don't hesitate in spending a fun day with us in Red Wing (RGK).  For
      details check out the website:
      
      http://www.pressenter.com/~dougweil/rvforum.html
      
      Or call me at
      
      home: 715-386-1239
      cell 651-398-1184
      
      Doug Weiler
      pres, MN Wing
      
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "BOBE." <RVPilot4(at)webtv.net>
      Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 11:42 AM
      Subject: RV-List: Red Wing
      
      
      >
      > Is the flyin for the 21st. still on? I read about the flooding in that
      > area and I wonder. Can someone who lives in that area let us know?
      >
      > Bob Murphy  Poplar Grove ILL. (C77)
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: 
Re: METO fuel configuration
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      In all the circles that I travel in, METO power is "Maximum Except Take-off"
      If you have an IO-360 that is 200HP Takeoff, 180 continuos,  Then METO Power
      would be 180 Hp.  How that affects minimum fuel, I have no clue.
      
      Tailwinds,
      Doug Rozendaal
      dougr(at)petroblend.com
      www.petroblend.com/dougr
      
      
      >
      > Randy it seems to me this guy has no clue METO is
      > maximum engine takeoff power
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: 
METO fuel configuration
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      This is an example of why we should keep in touch with one another on the
      RV-List.  Who wants to be the next unlucky person to select this DAR for
      their inspection?  Minimum fuel for METO indeed!
      
      Steve Soule
      Huntington, VT
      RV-6A in garage at home waiting for tie down space at the airport to emerge
      from the snow and mud
      
      -----Original Message-----
      In all the circles that I travel in, METO power is "Maximum Except Take-off"
      If you have an IO-360 that is 200HP Takeoff, 180 continuos,  Then METO Power
      would be 180 Hp.  How that affects minimum fuel, I have no clue.
      >
      > Randy it seems to me this guy has no clue METO is
      > maximum engine takeoff power
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net>
Subject: 
Re: Whelen strobe connectors question
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      FWIW, the Whelen guys at Sun and Fun and Oskosh have a pocket full of what
      you need and will give it to you for the asking.
      
      Russ Werner
      HRII, Maui
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
From: 
"Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: 
Re: METO fuel configuration
      
      
      > "Aircraft weighted empty - MINIMUM FUEL. Minimum fuel for balance purposes
      > is 1/12 gallon per Maximum-Except-Takeoff-Horsepower (METO), and is the
      > maximum amount of fuel which could be used in weight and balance
      > computations when low fuel might adversly affect the most critical balance
      > conditions.
      
      so, (METO)*1/12=X gallons
      
      or, (180)*1/12=15 gallons
      
      > To determine the weight of fuel in punds divide the METO
      > horsepower by two.
      
      METO = 180
      
      180/2=90
      
      just happens that 15 gallons * 6lb/gal = 90 pounds.
      
      Minimum fuel for balance purposes is 1/12 gallon per METO. So I interprate
      this as meaning to do all weight and balance configurations with no less than
      90lb of fuel in the calculations or 15 gallons .
      
      (180)/2=90 weight of fuel in pounds METO/2
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
Subject: 
Metal Hinges to Fiberglass
From: 
Gary Graham <beeb(at)teleport.com>
      
      
      I ask my dog Pugsley how he would attach the aluminum hinge to fiberglass
      parts.
      This is what he said:
      
      You know Clem, It would be nice if you told me what kind of resin those
      fiberglass parts were made from, however, here are some basics.
      
      Drill and counter sink for rivet installation as per the plans.  Locate the
      3/32 rivets next to the hinge segments rather than in-between them.  Remove
      stress risers (sharp corners) and taper segments as required with small
      files and Emory paper. Use soft rivets not old hard ones.  Sand the
      fiberglass under the hinge to remove high spots and irregularities.  Squeeze
      the rivets if possible by hand power.  Do not counter sink the hinge (It is
      weak soft material.  If you must, use a backer strip under the shop head).
      Do not over counter sink the fiberglass (Make it thicker, if necessary).
      
      As for bonding:  The reason to bond,  is to stabilize the metal/fiberglass
      interface.  This will greatly improve the life of the junction and keep both
      rivets and hinge from fretting (Vibration and thermal expansion rates).
      
      If your fiberglass parts are made from epoxy resin,  Do Not Use polyester as
      a glue (OK for polyester parts sanded to fresh material).  Do Not Use
      fiberglass "Mat" as a filler with epoxy resigns.  Mat is random orientation
      glass strands bonded with corn starch,  that will not wet out with epoxy's
      (It is formulated to work with polyester.  You shouldn't need Mat in the
      airplane but if you do, make sure it's not the stuff that has been available
      for years, i.e.. a new product for epoxy).
      
      My favorite bonding agents in this application are the ones that stay
      flexible and are great glues.  "Proseal" is a real good candidate and you
      have a can handy.  Epoxy's are great glues but it is hard to find
      formulations that don't cure hard.  There are some Methacrylates(sp) that
      are good glues for dissimilar materials and plastics (again hard to find).
      Remember we are looking for a good glue that dampens vibrations and thermal
      expansion problems and is resistant to aircraft type chemicals.  If you must
      use epoxy,  the use of the holes to make a plastic button head interlock,
      is a good idea.  Don't for get to rough up those surfaces.  Squeeze those
      rivets before everything gets hard.
      
      Hey,  How about a Milk Bone. 
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: 
Re: Alternate engines Sun & Fun 
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      >
      > I wish these people good sucess but I keep remembering people like a man
      > and his son who installed a Ford V6 in an RV4.It burned more fuel
      > (heavier) than a Lycosaur. There were many more problems than just
      > cooling and CG.
      >
      >
      > Bob Murphy  Poplar Grove ILL. (C77)
      >
      
      Thanks Bob,
      
          You are correct, there has been many an auto conversion that turned out
      disappointing - interestingly those are the conversions that seem to be
      remembered.  Matching the right engine with the right airframe is a crucial
      requirement.  If the auto installation weights considerably more than the
      Lycoming the aircraft is designed for then even if it produces more power
      the performance is likely to be disappointing.
      
          The four rotary powered aircraft at Sun & Fun had installations ranged
      from being lighter than an 0320 to my own which is about 10 lbs heavier than
      an a typical 0-360 installation.  Attention to detail is critical in keeping
      the weight down as are design decisions.  Just like with Lycomings the
      aircraft which generally weighs the less performs the best - no different
      with auto installations.
      
         In addition to the Wankle Rotary engine producing the right power/weigh
      ratio (at least for the RV series airframes), a second important factor in
      the rotary engines relative success as an aircraft power plant is the fact
      that there are over a dozen RV projects (at least 8 flying) and we all share
      information.  So by doing this we are able to advance the state of the art
      by not duplicating each others mistakes and all benefiting from the
      successful approaches.
      
        I expect to see many more than the 7 auto conversions that were at Sun &
      Fun 2001 in the future.
      
         You may be interested in knowing that Sun & Fun 2001 issue a plaque for
      the "Best Auto Engine" of which I had the honor to receive for my Rotary
      Powered RV-6A.
      
      Ed Anderson
      RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
      "Best Auto Engine" Sun & Fun 2001.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: 
Metal Hinges to Fiberglass
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      What a good dog!!  You going to sell any pups from that dog?  I could sure
      use some help with my canopy.
      
      --
      Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
      Network Administrator
      Union Safe Deposit Bank
      209-946-5116
      
      
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From:        Gary Graham [mailto:beeb(at)teleport.com]
                      Sent:        Wednesday, April 18, 2001 12:34 PM
                      To:        RV List
                      Subject:        RV-List: Metal Hinges to Fiberglass
      
      
      
                      I ask my dog Pugsley how he would attach the aluminum hinge
      to fiberglass
                      parts.
                      This is what he said:
      
                      You know Clem, It would be nice if you told me what kind of
      resin those
                      fiberglass parts were made from, however, here are some
      basics.
      
                      [dog advice deleted]
                      
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
From: 
N13eer(at)AOL.COM
Subject: 
METO fuel configuration
      
      
      Does the DAR have any experience inspecting RVs or has he been inspecting very
      light planes.  If you have a gravity fuel system the amount of fuel in the tank
      can effect the amount of fuel flow.  In that case you have to verify METO at
      a minimum fuel level to ensure you won't starve the engine on takeoff.  This
      should not be an issue with duel fuel pumps on an RV.
      
      Alan Kritzman
      Cedar Rapids, IA
      RV-8
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: 
METO fuel configuration
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      Reposted for future archive searches.  Don't worry about being flamed,
      Harvey.  This is good info.
      
      If anybody flames you I'll flame 'em right back!
      --
      Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
      Network Administrator
      Union Safe Deposit Bank
      209-946-5116
      
      
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From:        Harvey Sigmon [mailto:flyhars(at)earthlink.net]
                      Sent:        Tuesday, April 17, 2001 10:00 PM
                      To:        rv-list(at)matronics.com
                      Subject:        RE: RV-List: METO fuel configuration
      
       >
      
      
                      Randy: I just did my W B and FAA inspection last week.    I
      am really confused as to what your DAR wants.  What I did was use the sample
      that Van supplied with my airplane.  I my case we  used the most extreme
      condition for aft CG limit, in van's sample he used 5 gallons which works
      out for my RV-6A with an 0-320.  The things that are  important are empty
      weight, Max gross Wt. Most forward , and most aft CG. I have been a
      Professional Flight Engineer my whole life and I sure don't understand why
      he is asking for METO for a W B computation.  Guys please don't flame my
      answer.  
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
From: 
Andy <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: 
sticking bearings
      
      
      Yesterday I removed and found that the bearing ball from the vernier
      throttle cable to the carb was stuck tight.  I could barely move it with
      a bolt inside for leverage; not at all with my fingers.  This was a good
      bearing when I installed it about 100 hours ago.  Perhaps the heat
      inside the compartment has an effect on them, (even on the cool side)
      Another thing for our annual inspection lists.
      
      I pulled it because I am changing over to a vernier control on the
      mixture and replaced the old bracket with Van's newer one which
      accomodates both controls.  Even with a mixture return spring, I still
      don't trust the single wire control on the mixture.  Anyway, as has
      become the norm, the bracket needs major modifications to fit.  The
      throttle side fits fine, but the mounting hole for the mixture vernier
      is pointed downwards as if the mixture cable was routed through the
      firewall from the panel downwards and along the floor.  Mine routes
      above the rudder pedals and through the firewall about 3-4" above the
      battery box along side the throttle. The bracket is now cut in pieces
      and will be riveted back together at an appropriate angle.
      
      And speaking about rudder pedals, I also just removed mine to comply
      with Van's AD about welding flanges along the pedal assembly to prevent
      it from breaking at the joints when you step on them too often or too
      hard.  What a pain in the butt that was, trying to contort myself to
      reach all the mounting screws and then trying to twist and turn the
      pedal assembly out of the airplane.  I'm not at all looking forward to
      having to re-install it.  By the way, on close inspection there was no
      sign wear or of imminent failure.
      
      My advise to all those still building:  Make yourself some kind of large
      access door so that you can easily get into the area in front of the
      panel and aft of the firewall.  I guarantee, you'll need to get in their
      a lot more often than you want.
      
      Andy
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Vince" <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
Subject: 
F-819PP
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      Ok guys, I give up.  I have searched the drawings until my eyes burn.
      I can not find the rivet type (AN470 or AN426) for attaching the
      F-819PP on a RV-8A.  I have gone over drawings 27 and 27A until I am
      sick of looking at them.  Can someone PLEASE tell me what the rivet
      callouts are and WHERE they are located.
      
      Vince Welch
      Frustrated In Ohio
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
PASSPAT(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
Subject: 
Re: F-819PP
      
      
      Hey Vince:
         You might look in the lower left hand cornerof sheet #28 there you will 
      find a small drawing with the calls for the rivets you are looking for
      
        Pat
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
From: 
Thomas McIntyre <bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Dream Machines Show
      
      
      Hey Gang
      I've been to the Half Moon Bay Dream Machines for the last 7 years as a volunteer,
      an exhibitor and a tire kicker and let me tell you its one heck of a show.  If
      you
      love anything mechanical you will be more than satisfied.  It is  light on aviation
      related displays so take that into account when you come. I will go to the source
      (air boss) about the flying wing and give you a post tomorrow.
      Best Wishes
      Tom
      
      
      Van Artsdalen, Scott wrote:
      
      >
      > Talk about your misleading advertising!  One of the local radio stations has
      > been running ads that tout the fact that the flying wing is going to be
      > there.  I would be incredibly p*ssed off if I went there and found only an
      > RC model!
      >
      > --
      > Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
      > Network Administrator
      > Union Safe Deposit Bank
      > 209-946-5116
      >
      >                 -----Original Message-----
      >                 From:        Thomas McIntyre [mailto:bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net]
      >                 Sent:        Tuesday, April 17, 2001 9:53 PM
      >                 To:        rv-list(at)matronics.com
      >                 Subject:        Re: RV-List: Dream Machines Show
      >
      > 
      >
      >                 Of the so called 400 airplanes there last year, about 30
      > were on display. The
      >                 rest were fly ins parked away from the show area.  If you
      > read carefully the
      >                 Northrop flying wing scheduled to be there is an RC model.
      >                 Tom
      >
      >                 George Armstrong wrote:
      >
      > 
      >                 >
      >                 > The annual Dream Machines show is scheduled for 4/29 in
      > Half Moon Bay CA
      >                 > (HAF).  Every sort of machine will be there including the
      > Northrop Flying
      >                 > Wing.  Cars, boats, motorcycles tractor pulls...  By most
      > estimates, 400
      >                 > aircraft were there last year.  $10 per person entrance
      > fee.
      >                 >
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
From: 
rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Re: RV4-List: Prop Balancer
      
      
      Jim;
      
        Grab a Sport Aviation Magazine and look in the
      classified ads under Props. Look for Mark Landoll's
      Harmonic balancers. They really work and add 12 pounds
      to the nose on -4's which is a plus.
      
      Rob Ray
      N557RR
      --- Jim Baker  wrote:
      > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Jim Baker"
      > 
      > 
      > I am interested in a prop balancer for my RV-4 with
      > a wooden prop if any
      > one has one they would be interested in selling. If
      > not where do I find 
      > a new one?
      > 
      > Thanks,
      > 
      > Jim Baker
      > N513J
      > 
      > 
      >
      > through
      >
      > http://www.matronics.com/archives
      > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
      >
      > Matronics!
      >
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
      Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
      http://auctions.yahoo.com/
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
N8292W(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
Subject: 
FS: RV-4 roll bar
      
      
      I have an extra RV-4 roll bar for sale. If anyone needs one, please let me 
      know.
      Thanks,
      Mike
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
From: 
rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Re: Everybody went to S & F except me!
      
      
      Hi Chuck;
      
        Coming from a No-Cal'r who flew his RV4 to SNF, the
      Dash Seven looked mighty nice, even if all you have to
      do is dump a bucket of clecoes in the box, shake it
      and an airplane pops out....Bottom line: RV's ruled,
      others drooled.  
       The Cross country of two RV4's from NoCal out to
      Lakeland was an adventure all it's own. 12 hours of
      flying and five fuel stops. I counted 38 RV's on the
      grass Sunday plus the four in front of Van's tent and
      Bruce Bohannons Tiger and -4. Alot more came and went
      during the week.  I even had a chance to visit with
      the man himself for a casual chat on several subjects.
      I asked him if he was going to discontinue the -4 now
      that the -8 was so popular. He responded with a
      chuckle: If I did that, how would the Harmon Rocket
      guys get parts...
      
      
      --- Chuck Rabaut  wrote:
      > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Chuck Rabaut"
      > 
      > 
      > Jim,
      > 
      >     You are oh so right!!!
      > 
      >             Chuck
      > 
      > 
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Jim Bower <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com>
      > > Anyhoo, that's why Van's makes RVs in so many
      > flavors, right?  At least we
      > > have to study plans, measure, make jigs, measure,
      > drill, measure, sweat,
      > > measure, and curse to build our airplanes like
      > real men do!  (Instead of
      > > those wussy -7 & -9 guys!)
      > >
      > > Jim
      > 
      > 
      >
      > through
      >
      > http://www.matronics.com/archives
      > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
      >
      > Matronics!
      >
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
      Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
      http://auctions.yahoo.com/
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: 
Installing wheels
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      I have my plane sitting up on the gear but when I installed the wheels I
      never installed the cotter pins.  Can anyone suggest some reading material
      where I can find out the proper procedure to install the wheels.  The manual
      wasn't very helpful.  I know, shocking considering this is an RV-4.  All I
      have done so far is put the tubes and tires on, slide the wheels on the
      axles, and screw the nut on finger tight.  Should I add any more bearing
      grease than was already on the bearings?  Should I grease the axles?  How
      tight should I torque the axle nuts?  Any suggestions, pointers, procedures,
      etc, would be most welcome.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Bill  Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Dent in Aileron - filler?
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      Hey guys, I was assembling an aileron some time ago and didn't have the
      bucking bar on the back of the rivet when I pulled the trigger.  I have a
      set of seriously hideos dents in my top skin.  :-(   So now, after trying
      forever to convince myself that it won't show too badly...I just can't do
      it.  So, can skin that thin be doctored with filler, or am I to rebuild the
      aileron?  I can just replace the skin, but it won't be easy.....so I'm
      looking for suggestions.
      
      Bill
      -4 wings  fuselage on it's way
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Installing wheels
      
      
      Scott,have someone walk you through packing the wheel bearings the first
      time.The Orndorff RV Construction Finishing Kit Part 1 covers the Axel &
      Wheel & brake mount .Every annual I take the wheel off , wash the
      bearings with solvent,check and repack .I inspect the brakes and the
      entire axel assembly. This is serious buisness, if it is not right you
      might a very exciting landing. Good Luck
      
      
      Bob Murphy  Poplar Grove ILL. (C77)
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
From: 
"mdelano" <mdelano(at)qwest.net>
Subject: 
Re: Inclination on fuel pump
      
      
      Gary
      
      I'm glad you have appointed yourself as the RV list Censor. Since only your
      opinion is correct shall we all send ower corrispondance to you for
      approvial before we post it on the list.
      
      Fact-- Rutan a/c mount the pump horizontal, and they work just fine. There
      are kit cars that mount the pump flat on the frame, they work also.
      
      Mark Delano
      A&P
      6A
      
      
      Gary Zilik wrote:
      
      >
      > > THE
      > > LIST would be a lot more useful, if posters would limit there input on
      > > technical matters, to what they know to be fact.
      > >
      >
      > Fact: the manufacture recomends mounting the pump at a 45 degree angle.
      >
      > Fact: The pump does not pump very well if not purged of air.
      >
      > --
      > Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado
      > RV-6A N99PZ Flying
      > Engine: Aerosport Power O-360-A1A with H2AD Pistons
      > Prop: Sensenich 72FM8S9-1-83
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: 
Re: wiring
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      Tom,
      
      I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse, but it's relatively
      cheap and quick to make a second panel. Once you've got the glareshield
      curvature and side cut-outs determined you can trace them onto a new blank
      in no time. I made my 2nd panel out of .090 and eliminated the angle along
      the top edge. The blessing (and curse) of experimentals is that nothing need
      be cast in stone.
      
      Regards,
      Greg Young
      RV-6 N6GY Houston (DWH) engine stuff...
      
      
      >
      > Has anyone else agonized so much over the placement of
      > instruments and
      > avionics as I have?  Once you drill a hole or do a cutout you
      > are stuck
      > with it.  And it seems you always figure out a better
      > location or see a
      > instrument panel that has it in a better spot after you cut
      > it or hear
      > about a new piece of equipment.  Finally forced myself to
      > mark and cut all
      > of the locations today whether they were in the right spot or not as
      > production had come to a standstill.  Guess I won't be
      > looking at any new
      > panel layouts for a while so I wont be disappointed by my
      > placements.  Seems like every place you put a piece ends up being a
      > compromise.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Dent in Aileron - filler?
      
      
      Microbaloons are very light.scuff the surface with sandpaper.use West
      system epoxy with baloons.It may take several coats.sand it and paint.
      
      Bob Murphy  Poplar Grove ILL. (C77)
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: 
Re: Boost Pump Placement
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
      
      
      > I intend to install an Airflow Performance fuel injection system in my
      > RV-6A. The instruction manual recommends NOT installing the boost pump
      > in the engine compartment. That leaves the options of putting it in the
      > cockpit or in the wing root. It is a fairly large assembly.
      >
      > Any recommendations?
      
      I put mine (RV6A) in the same spot as the small pump from Van is supposed to
      go. I took great pains to get it tucked in there as best as I could. I then
      made a very complicated panel piece to cover that whole section. I will
      cover the panel with my interior fabric. I might have a small pocket sewed
      on first. All of my fuel, brakes and electrical lines go through the small
      side bulkhead rather than around it. When all the interior panels are
      installed the occupants will not see any wires or lines anywhere.
      
      Norman Hunger
      RV6A Delta BC
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
Subject: 
Navaid question
      
      
      Will someone quote me an approx $$$ of the Navaid equipment.
      Also, recommendations as to it's usefullness.
      Can it be installed after wing completion or do I need to purchase while 
      working on wings? Thanks, 
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 2001
From: 
"Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Re: Dream Machines Show
      
      
      --- Thomas McIntyre  wrote:
      > 
      > 
      > Hey Gang
      > I've been to the Half Moon Bay Dream Machines for the last 7 years as
      > a volunteer,
      > an exhibitor and a tire kicker and let me tell you its one heck of a
      > show.  If you
      > love anything mechanical you will be more than satisfied.  It is 
      > light on aviation
      > related displays so take that into account when you come. I will go
      > to the source
      > (air boss) about the flying wing and give you a post tomorrow.
      > Best Wishes
      > Tom
      
      
      Should have at least 5 RVs from the SoCAL Wing there.  Had 7 last year.
       At least 5 of us are committed if it is VFR.  More are interested but
      they have not committed yet.
      
      Will arrive as a flight for the Overhead.
      
      
      ====
      Gary A. Sobek
      "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 
      780+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA 
      http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
      
      Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
      http://auctions.yahoo.com/
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: 
Re: sticking bearings
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
      
      
      [snip]
      > Anyway, as has
      > become the norm, the bracket needs major modifications to
      > fit.  The throttle side fits fine, but the mounting hole for the
      > mixture vernier is pointed downwards as if the mixture cable
      > was routed through the firewall from the panel downwards and
      > along the floor.  Mine routes above the rudder pedals and
      > through the firewall about 3-4" above the battery box along
      > side the throttle. The bracket is now cut in pieces and will
      > be riveted back together at an appropriate angle.
      
      Hmmm... how are you dealing with the geometry of the cable/mixture arm? The
      reason that bracket is angled that way is mostly a result of the geometry of
      the arm. I don't see changing it much without messing that up.
      
      I was the first one to use that bracket but I already had a custom (longer)
      cable and wanted to route it up higher -- it comes out the top right hand
      corner of the recess, straight down the firewall then 90+ degrees to the
      bracket. A pretty sharp angle but I have a decent radius on it so it worked
      out all right. But I'd probably consider just running it through down low
      like Vans has it set up for if I were doing it over. In any case I didn't
      have to modify the bracket.
      
      Anyway, good luck with it however you end up doing it!
      
      Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs)
      Portland, OR
      www.vanshomewing.org
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"jim jewell" <jjewell(at)okanagan.net>
Subject: 
Re: Navaid question
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      Hey Bob,
      
      For the price go to their site http://www.navaid-devices.com/index.htm .
      About $1,300.00.
      
      After much thinking I installed my Navaid under the right side flooring as
      indicated in the drawings and photos that they will provide if you ask.
      I will let others speak to "it's usefulness"
      I installed a longer push rod ( same diameter thicker wall ) so as to reach
      across and connect to the left hand control stick. this requires some extra
      care to get the position of the servo unit just right but it is worth the
      effort.
      
      You can install during wing construction if you want it in the area just
      outside the bell-crank area ( conventional ) or do it later on in the fuse
      or at the wing tip.
      
      Due to chronic lower back trouble I had my fuselage mounted on an engine
      stand and tail support of my own designs at the time. If I had to do the
      install with the aircraft assembled I would install the unit in the wing
      tip.
      All three positions seem to work quite well from what I've seen in the
      archives and on this very helpful rv-list.
      
      Flying is fun, Take off eh! {:-)
      
      Jim in Kelowna - fitting cowl
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM>
      Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:33 PM
      Subject: RV-List: Navaid question
      
      
      >
      > Will someone quote me an approx $$$ of the Navaid equipment.
      > Also, recommendations as to it's usefullness.
      > Can it be installed after wing completion or do I need to purchase while
      > working on wings? Thanks,
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
Subject: 
Andair gascolator question
From: 
czechsix(at)juno.com
      
      
      Can someone explain to me how the Andair gascolator bowl is attached? 
      I've found a few pictures on the web, and I don't see any screws like
      Vans gascolator has, just an arrow and some safety wire....   Does the
      whole thing screw into the base, or is it a 'twist and lock' type
      operation with safety wire added just for extra security?
      
      Thanks,
      
      --Mark Navratil
      Cedar Rapids, Iowa
      RV-8A fuselage, O-360-A4A, Sensenich 87"
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Re: Andair gascolator question
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      Mark,
      
      It's a "twist & Lock" which you saftety wire.
      
      Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
      RV-8A (still working F/G)
      Niantic, CT
      
      >
      >Can someone explain to me how the Andair gascolator bowl is attached?
      >I've found a few pictures on the web, and I don't see any screws like
      >Vans gascolator has, just an arrow and some safety wire....   Does the
      >whole thing screw into the base, or is it a 'twist and lock' type
      >operation with safety wire added just for extra security?
      >
      >Thanks,
      >
      >--Mark Navratil
      >Cedar Rapids, Iowa
      >RV-8A fuselage, O-360-A4A, Sensenich 87"
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
From: 
Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: 
Re: Inclination on fuel pump
      
      
      >
      >Gary,
      >Yes it is a fact that the manufacture now (they didn't always) recommends
      >that the pumps be mounted at a inclination of 45 . I also recommend
      >installing the pump with some inclination to help purge fumes from the pump
      >body.
      >But in over 1000 hr. of flying I never experienced a fuel pump problem,
      >except for the transistor dying.
      >You forgot one other thing the manufacture recommends, Not to use these
      >pumps in aircraft.
      >Garry LeGare EAA 94585
      >Tech Counselor
      >RV6 Finishing
      
      Garry,
      
      If the reason for the 45 deg inclination recommendation is to purge 
      air, it seems like the biggest risk would be to have a problem after 
      running a tank dry.
      
      How many times have you run a tank dry?  Did you ever have any 
      problems with the pump picking up its prime after running a tank dry?
      
      Take care,
      
      
      -- 
      Kevin Horton         RV-8 (mounting wings)
      Ottawa, Canada
      http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Airbatix(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Dent in Aileron - filler?
      
      
      sure...you can fill those dinks (and several others you will create along the 
      way) later on when you are up to your elbows in fiberglass.  you will 
      probably use epoxy/micro putty/slurry that is a quite common method for 
      filling...keep riveting...
      
      paul m
      n632m...rv6a/180/cs...inspection tommorrow
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Johnny Johnson" <Johnny(at)wiktel.com>
Subject: 
METO hp and Weight & Balance
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      The following has created some interesting traffic and some possible
      misunderstandings:
      
      >> "Aircraft weighted empty - MINIMUM FUEL. Minimum fuel for balance
      purposes
      >> is 1/12 gallon per Maximum-Except-Takeoff-Horsepower (METO), and is the
      >> maximum amount of fuel which could be used in weight and balance
      >> computations when low fuel might adversely affect the most critical
      balance
      >> conditions.
      
      Having the allowable or required fuel quantity based loosely on the fuel
      demands of the engine seems reasonable enough, but this convoluted work of
      art was probably written by the same guy that does income tax directions...
      :=))
      
      It is truly hard to tell whether it is talking about a minimum or a maximum,
      but after reading it about 10 times I conclude that it describes the MAXIMUM
      amount of fuel we are allowed to use when figuring CG at Minimum Fuel.  When
      you think about it, it makes sense to set an upper limit when talking about
      "minimum".  I wonder why he didn't just say "the maximum amount of fuel
      which can be used in Minimum Fuel W&B calcs is..." and leave off the drivel
      about "when low fuel might... bla bla bla...".. you calculate it regardless
      of what "might" be...
      
      FWIW, the results really seem quite liberal... you could go a long time on
      10 or 15 gallons, which is what most RV's apparently would be allowed to
      use.  Depending on how the airplane being worked on is configured, you could
      possibly make something "look better" on paper by using that much fuel in
      the Min Fuel W&B calcs... but it seems to me one would be wise to know what
      the CG does at considerably lower fuel than almost 2 hours worth... just
      IMHO.
      
      Johnny Johnson
      49MM  RV-3 flying
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
From: 
"Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: 
Re: Inclination on fuel pump
      
      
      >
      
      The fuel pump debate can go on forever and they most likely will work forever
      mounted in any orientation. The fact is that the manufacture states how they
      want it mounted, end of story. Of course being homebuilders we can mount the
      pump anyway we want. Thats the beauty of these little planes. The fact that
      the pump works mounted horizontal has been proven by Rutan and the kit cars, I
      accept that.  That does not mean it is right. Mine is mounted as per Van's
      plans and the manufactuers instructions. All opinions must be voiced on the
      list, can I not voice mine.?
      
      >
      > Gary
      >
      > I'm glad you have appointed yourself as the RV list Censor. Since only your
      > opinion is correct shall we all send ower corrispondance to you for
      > approvial before we post it on the list.
      
      The day I think I know everything I will stop reading the list. Granted there
      is  very little to learn from most of the drabble but sometimes a gold nugget
      comes through. I am sorry if I offended you in my post, but I was offended by
      the rightous statement that I responed to. The almighty Tech Consulor is
      quoted in my post, those are not my words. While I may agree with his
      statement that the list should  limit input to tech matters I don't flame
      people for voicing there opinion. Opinion is what makes the list a usefull
      tool. I still stand behind the two facts I posted in my reply.
      
      
      I am offended that you think I was acting as a censor. Can I not disagree with
      someones statement?
      
      Gary
      Just a builder who don't know nothin
      
      >
      >
      > Gary Zilik wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > > THE
      > > > LIST would be a lot more useful, if posters would limit there input on
      > > > technical matters, to what they know to be fact.
      > > >
      > >
      > > Fact: the manufacture recomends mounting the pump at a 45 degree angle.
      > >
      > > Fact: The pump does not pump very well if not purged of air.
      > >
      > > --
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: METO hp and Weight & Balance
From: 
Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
       04/19/2001 10:24:12 AM
      
      
      Great job of "cypering" this for us Johnny. Now let me ask you one
      question; WHY?
      
      I mean why would 2 hours fuel put you in jeopardy more than nearly dry
      tanks? If 10 gallons would put you in an aft CG condition then wouldn't
      full tanks put you in a worse way? Can you explain the reasoning for the
      DAR's concern to a simple country boy. Please use one syllable words or
      less, if not I'm gonna have to call that damn Pugsley. That dog really
      knows his milk bones.
      
      Thanks
      
      Eric Henson
      
      
      "Johnny Johnson" (at)matronics.com on 04/19/2001 09:24:27
      AM
      
      Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
      
      
      Sent by:  owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
      
      
      cc:
      Subject:  RV-List: METO hp and Weight & Balance
      
      
      The following has created some interesting traffic and some possible
      misunderstandings:
      
      >> "Aircraft weighted empty - MINIMUM FUEL. Minimum fuel for balance
      purposes
      >> is 1/12 gallon per Maximum-Except-Takeoff-Horsepower (METO), and is the
      >> maximum amount of fuel which could be used in weight and balance
      >> computations when low fuel might adversely affect the most critical
      balance
      >> conditions.
      
      Having the allowable or required fuel quantity based loosely on the fuel
      demands of the engine seems reasonable enough, but this convoluted work of
      art was probably written by the same guy that does income tax directions...
      :=))
      
      It is truly hard to tell whether it is talking about a minimum or a
      maximum,
      but after reading it about 10 times I conclude that it describes the
      MAXIMUM
      amount of fuel we are allowed to use when figuring CG at Minimum Fuel.
      When
      you think about it, it makes sense to set an upper limit when talking about
      "minimum".  I wonder why he didn't just say "the maximum amount of fuel
      which can be used in Minimum Fuel W&B calcs is..." and leave off the drivel
      about "when low fuel might... bla bla bla...".. you calculate it regardless
      of what "might" be...
      
      FWIW, the results really seem quite liberal... you could go a long time on
      10 or 15 gallons, which is what most RV's apparently would be allowed to
      use.  Depending on how the airplane being worked on is configured, you
      could
      possibly make something "look better" on paper by using that much fuel in
      the Min Fuel W&B calcs... but it seems to me one would be wise to know what
      the CG does at considerably lower fuel than almost 2 hours worth... just
      IMHO.
      
      Johnny Johnson
      49MM  RV-3 flying
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: 
Everybody went to S & F except me!
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      Rob,
      
          I'm glad you had fun and that's great to hear, but you should've
      reminded him that a Quick Build 4 is what's really needed (I mean I'm not
      complaining {well not at this moment} but God knows the 4 is way cool but
      God also knows you sure suffer trying to figure out how to get it together).
      
                  Chuck
      
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:34 PM
      Subject: Re: RV4-List: Fw: RV-List: Everybody went to S & F except me!
      
      
      >
      > Hi Chuck;
      >
      >   Coming from a No-Cal'r who flew his RV4 to SNF, the
      > Dash Seven looked mighty nice, even if all you have to
      > do is dump a bucket of clecoes in the box, shake it
      > and an airplane pops out....Bottom line: RV's ruled,
      > others drooled.
      >  The Cross country of two RV4's from NoCal out to
      > Lakeland was an adventure all it's own. 12 hours of
      > flying and five fuel stops. I counted 38 RV's on the
      > grass Sunday plus the four in front of Van's tent and
      > Bruce Bohannons Tiger and -4. Alot more came and went
      > during the week.  I even had a chance to visit with
      > the man himself for a casual chat on several subjects.
      > I asked him if he was going to discontinue the -4 now
      > that the -8 was so popular. He responded with a
      > chuckle: If I did that, how would the Harmon Rocket
      > guys get parts...
      >
      >
      > --- Chuck Rabaut  wrote:
      > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Chuck Rabaut"
      > > 
      > >
      > > Jim,
      > >
      > >     You are oh so right!!!
      > >
      > >             Chuck
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: Jim Bower <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com>
      > > > Anyhoo, that's why Van's makes RVs in so many
      > > flavors, right?  At least we
      > > > have to study plans, measure, make jigs, measure,
      > > drill, measure, sweat,
      > > > measure, and curse to build our airplanes like
      > > real men do!  (Instead of
      > > > those wussy -7 & -9 guys!)
      > > >
      > > > Jim
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > through
      > >
      > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
      > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
      > >
      > > Matronics!
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
      > http://auctions.yahoo.com/
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com>
Subject: 
Inclination on fuel pump
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      Information is abundant...
      Wisdom is scarce.
      
      Ed Cole
      RV6A N2169D Flying
      RV6A N648RV Finishing 
      
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From:        Gary Zilik [SMTP:zilik(at)bewellnet.com]
      > Sent:        Thursday, April 19, 2001 6:39 AM
      > To:        rv-list(at)matronics.com
      > Subject:        Re: RV-List: Inclination on fuel pump
      > 
      > 
      > >
      > 
      > The fuel pump debate can go on forever and they most likely will work
      > forever
      > mounted in any orientation. The fact is that the manufacture states how
      > they
      > want it mounted, end of story. Of course being homebuilders we can mount
      > the
      > pump anyway we want. Thats the beauty of these little planes. The fact
      > that
      > the pump works mounted horizontal has been proven by Rutan and the kit
      > cars, I
      > accept that.  That does not mean it is right. Mine is mounted as per Van's
      > plans and the manufactuers instructions. All opinions must be voiced on
      > the
      > list, can I not voice mine.?
      > 
      > >
      > > Gary
      > >
      > > I'm glad you have appointed yourself as the RV list Censor. Since only
      > your
      > > opinion is correct shall we all send ower corrispondance to you for
      > > approvial before we post it on the list.
      > 
      > The day I think I know everything I will stop reading the list. Granted
      > there
      > is  very little to learn from most of the drabble but sometimes a gold
      > nugget
      > comes through. I am sorry if I offended you in my post, but I was offended
      > by
      > the rightous statement that I responed to. The almighty Tech Consulor is
      > quoted in my post, those are not my words. While I may agree with his
      > statement that the list should  limit input to tech matters I don't flame
      > people for voicing there opinion. Opinion is what makes the list a usefull
      > tool. I still stand behind the two facts I posted in my reply.
      > 
      > 
      > I am offended that you think I was acting as a censor. Can I not disagree
      > with
      > someones statement?
      > 
      > Gary
      > Just a builder who don't know nothin
      > 
      > >
      > >
      > > Gary Zilik wrote:
      > >
      > > >
      > > > > THE
      > > > > LIST would be a lot more useful, if posters would limit there input
      > on
      > > > > technical matters, to what they know to be fact.
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > Fact: the manufacture recomends mounting the pump at a 45 degree
      > angle.
      > > >
      > > > Fact: The pump does not pump very well if not purged of air.
      > > >
      > > > --
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: 
Dream Machines Show
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      I appreciate that.  Just to clear things up, I've only heard good things
      about the show.  I just wish the ads were more clear.
      --
      Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
      Network Administrator
      Union Safe Deposit Bank
      209-946-5116
      
      
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From:        Thomas McIntyre [mailto:bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net]
                      Sent:        Wednesday, April 18, 2001 6:05 PM
                      To:        rv-list(at)matronics.com
                      Subject:        Re: RV-List: Dream Machines Show
      
      
      
                      Hey Gang
                      I've been to the Half Moon Bay Dream Machines for the last 7
      years as a volunteer,
                      an exhibitor and a tire kicker and let me tell you its one
      heck of a show.  If you
                      love anything mechanical you will be more than satisfied.
      It is  light on aviation
                      related displays so take that into account when you come. I
      will go to the source
                      (air boss) about the flying wing and give you a post
      tomorrow.
                      Best Wishes
                      Tom
      
      
                      Van Artsdalen, Scott wrote:
      
      
                      >
                      > Talk about your misleading advertising!  One of the local
      radio stations has
                      > been running ads that tout the fact that the flying wing
      is going to be
                      > there.  I would be incredibly p*ssed off if I went there
      and found only an
                      > RC model!
                      >
                      > --
                      > Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
                      > Network Administrator
                      > Union Safe Deposit Bank
                      > 209-946-5116
                      >
                      >                 -----Original Message-----
                      >                 From:        Thomas McIntyre
      [mailto:bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net]
                      >                 Sent:        Tuesday, April 17, 2001 9:53
      PM
                      >                 To:        rv-list(at)matronics.com
                      >                 Subject:        Re: RV-List: Dream
      Machines Show
                      >
      McIntyre
                      > 
                      >
                      >                 Of the so called 400 airplanes there last
      year, about 30
                      > were on display. The
                      >                 rest were fly ins parked away from the
      show area.  If you
                      > read carefully the
                      >                 Northrop flying wing scheduled to be there
      is an RC model.
                      >                 Tom
                      >
                      >                 George Armstrong wrote:
                      >
      Armstrong"
                      > 
                      >                 >
                      >                 > The annual Dream Machines show is
      scheduled for 4/29 in
                      > Half Moon Bay CA
                      >                 > (HAF).  Every sort of machine will be
      there including the
                      > Northrop Flying
                      >                 > Wing.  Cars, boats, motorcycles tractor
      pulls...  By most
                      > estimates, 400
                      >                 > aircraft were there last year.  $10 per
      person entrance
                      > fee.
                      >                 >
                      >
                      >
      
      
              
              
              
              
      
      
                      
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
From: 
Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
Subject: 
Re: METO hp and Weight & Balance
      
      
      All of this doesn't make any sense anyway. Only "unuseable" fuel should used for
      these calculations. You want to have C.G. in allowable range when fuel runs out
      so you can glide down to a controlled landing, don't you? Get another DAR if he
      can't see that.
      
      Finn
      
      Johnny Johnson wrote:
      
      >
      > The following has created some interesting traffic and some possible
      > misunderstandings:
      >
      > >> "Aircraft weighted empty - MINIMUM FUEL. Minimum fuel for balance
      > purposes
      > >> is 1/12 gallon per Maximum-Except-Takeoff-Horsepower (METO), and is the
      > >> maximum amount of fuel which could be used in weight and balance
      > >> computations when low fuel might adversely affect the most critical
      > balance
      > >> conditions.
      
      
      NetZero Platinum
      No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access
      Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
      http://www.netzero.net
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
rpflanze(at)iquest.net
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
Subject: 
Re: METO hp and Weight & Balance
      
      
      I don't know about the D.A.R.'s concerns, but in my RV-6, the more fuel you burn,
      the more the CG moves aft.  If I fly at maximum takeoff weight with two heavy
      bubbas on board, I cannot fly down to less than 10 gallons of fuel on board
      without exceeding the aft CG limit on the airplane.
      
      Randy Pflanzer N417G
      RV-6 (144 hours)
      
      
      >
      >
      >Great job of "cypering" this for us Johnny. Now let me ask you one
      >question; WHY?
      >
      >I mean why would 2 hours fuel put you in jeopardy more than nearly dry
      >tanks? If 10 gallons would put you in an aft CG condition then wouldn't
      >full tanks put you in a worse way? Can you explain the reasoning for the
      >DAR's concern to a simple country boy. Please use one syllable words or
      >less, if not I'm gonna have to call that damn Pugsley. That dog really
      >knows his milk bones.
      >
      >Thanks
      >
      >Eric Henson
      >
      >
      >"Johnny Johnson" (at)matronics.com on 04/19/2001 09:24:27
      >AM
      >
      >Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
      >
      >
      >Sent by:  owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
      >
      >
      >To:   "RV List" 
      >cc:
      >Subject:  RV-List: METO hp and Weight & Balance
      >
      >
      >The following has created some interesting traffic and some possible
      >misunderstandings:
      >
      >>> "Aircraft weighted empty - MINIMUM FUEL. Minimum fuel for balance
      >purposes
      >>> is 1/12 gallon per Maximum-Except-Takeoff-Horsepower (METO), and is the
      
      >>> maximum amount of fuel which could be used in weight and balance
      >>> computations when low fuel might adversely affect the most critical
      >balance
      >>> conditions.
      >
      >Having the allowable or required fuel quantity based loosely on the fuel
      >demands of the engine seems reasonable enough, but this convoluted work of
      
      >art was probably written by the same guy that does income tax directions...
      
      >:=))
      >
      >It is truly hard to tell whether it is talking about a minimum or a
      >maximum,
      >but after reading it about 10 times I conclude that it describes the
      >MAXIMUM
      >amount of fuel we are allowed to use when figuring CG at Minimum Fuel.
      >When
      >you think about it, it makes sense to set an upper limit when talking about
      
      >"minimum".  I wonder why he didn't just say "the maximum amount of fuel
      >which can be used in Minimum Fuel W&B calcs is..." and leave off the drivel
      
      >about "when low fuel might... bla bla bla...".. you calculate it regardless
      
      >of what "might" be...
      >
      >FWIW, the results really seem quite liberal... you could go a long time on
      
      >10 or 15 gallons, which is what most RV's apparently would be allowed to
      >use.  Depending on how the airplane being worked on is configured, you
      >could
      >possibly make something "look better" on paper by using that much fuel in
      >the Min Fuel W&B calcs... but it seems to me one would be wise to know what
      
      >the CG does at considerably lower fuel than almost 2 hours worth... just
      >IMHO.
      >
      >Johnny Johnson
      >49MM  RV-3 flying
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com>
Subject: 
Dream Machines Show
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      I reread the ad in the Pacific Flyer last night and it showed a picture of
      the Flying Wing.
      It said it was a model of the thing but not an RC model.
      
      
      Ed Cole
      RV6A N2169D Flying
      
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From:        Van Artsdalen, Scott [SMTP:svanarts(at)unionsafe.com]
      > Sent:        Thursday, April 19, 2001 9:15 AM
      > To:        rv-list(at)matronics.com
      > Subject:        RE: RV-List: Dream Machines Show
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > I appreciate that.  Just to clear things up, I've only heard good things
      > about the show.  I just wish the ads were more clear.
      > --
      > Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
      > Network Administrator
      > Union Safe Deposit Bank
      > 209-946-5116
      > 
      > 
      >                 -----Original Message-----
      >                 From:        Thomas McIntyre
      > [mailto:bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net]
      >                 Sent:        Wednesday, April 18, 2001 6:05 PM
      >                 To:        rv-list(at)matronics.com
      >                 Subject:        Re: RV-List: Dream Machines Show
      > 
      > 
      > 
      >                 Hey Gang
      >                 I've been to the Half Moon Bay Dream Machines for the last
      > 7
      > years as a volunteer,
      >                 an exhibitor and a tire kicker and let me tell you its one
      > heck of a show.  If you
      >                 love anything mechanical you will be more than satisfied.
      > It is  light on aviation
      >                 related displays so take that into account when you come.
      > I
      > will go to the source
      >                 (air boss) about the flying wing and give you a post
      > tomorrow.
      >                 Best Wishes
      >                 Tom
      > 
      > 
      >                 Van Artsdalen, Scott wrote:
      > 
      > 
      >                 >
      >                 > Talk about your misleading advertising!  One of the
      > local
      > radio stations has
      >                 > been running ads that tout the fact that the flying wing
      > is going to be
      >                 > there.  I would be incredibly p*ssed off if I went there
      > and found only an
      >                 > RC model!
      >                 >
      >                 > --
      >                 > Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
      >                 > Network Administrator
      >                 > Union Safe Deposit Bank
      >                 > 209-946-5116
      >                 >
      >                 >                 -----Original Message-----
      >                 >                 From:        Thomas McIntyre
      > [mailto:bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net]
      >                 >                 Sent:        Tuesday, April 17, 2001
      > 9:53
      > PM
      >                 >                 To:        rv-list(at)matronics.com
      >                 >                 Subject:        Re: RV-List: Dream
      > Machines Show
      >                 >
      > McIntyre
      >                 > 
      >                 >
      >                 >                 Of the so called 400 airplanes there
      > last
      > year, about 30
      >                 > were on display. The
      >                 >                 rest were fly ins parked away from the
      > show area.  If you
      >                 > read carefully the
      >                 >                 Northrop flying wing scheduled to be
      > there
      > is an RC model.
      >                 >                 Tom
      >                 >
      >                 >                 George Armstrong wrote:
      >                 >
      > Armstrong"
      >                 > 
      >                 >                 >
      >                 >                 > The annual Dream Machines show is
      > scheduled for 4/29 in
      >                 > Half Moon Bay CA
      >                 >                 > (HAF).  Every sort of machine will be
      > there including the
      >                 > Northrop Flying
      >                 >                 > Wing.  Cars, boats, motorcycles
      > tractor
      > pulls...  By most
      >                 > estimates, 400
      >                 >                 > aircraft were there last year.  $10
      > per
      > person entrance
      >                 > fee.
      >                 >                 >
      >                 >
      >                 >
      > 
      > 
      >         
      >         
      >         
      >         
      > 
      > 
      >                 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
From: 
Garry LeGare <"versadek"@earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Inclination on fuel pump
      
      
      Kevan, excellent question and example of why your postings are among the ones I
      always read.
      
      Yes, on my Q2 I used to run the tank dry quite often. Over the course of approx.
      1050 hr,  I probably ran the main tank dry 100 times, and no, I never had a
      problem with the pumps self priming abilities.
      To properly understand my answer you should be supplied with an explanation of
      the fuel system of my particular Q2.
      The fuel system was composed of two fuel tanks, a 22 gal lower tank and a 6.5
      gal header tank above it.
      Fuel was pumped from the lower tank to the header tank by the same model Facet
      pump as Van recommends.
      The pump was mounted horizontally on top of the lower fuel tank, perpendicular
      to the direction of flight. The pump ran continuously as the header tank
      incorporated an overflow tube, that returned the excess fuel to the lower tank.
      When the lower tank ran dry, I would shut the pump off. The lower tank fuel
      gauge was mechanical similar to a Citabria wing tank, and was fairly accurate.
      The header tank which had a deep sump, and was well baffled, used a sight tube
      mounted on the dash, which was extremely accurate. The carb was gravity fed from
      the header tank.
      Since the engine burned approx. 3.5 gal per hr in cruise, it was not unusual on
      short flights to start out with only a couple of gallons in the lower tank, and
      run it dry.
      
      However there are some significant differences between the above system and the
      standard system in an RV6.
      
       The RV6 pump must pull fuel through approx. 75" of 3/8 th tube, a valve and 5
      bends.
      My Q2 system, 16" of 1/4" tube and one bend.
      But the RV6 system has a significant advantage, the engine driven pump is also
      pulling. Unless of coarse you have a engine driven pump failure just as you run
      a tank dry.
      
      I had  the pump fail twice in the 1000 + hrs both times it was the switching
      transistor. I replaced the transistor, which used to be surface mounted and easy
      to replace.
      Why did the transistors fail? I don't know.
      Could it have been from the vibration of the pump running dry? Quite possibly as
      the pumps really rattle when they start to run dry.
      Garry LeGare, EAA 94585
      Tech Counselor
      RV6 Finishing
      
      Kevin Horton wrote:
      
      > >
      > >
      >
      > Garry,
      >
      > If the reason for the 45 deg inclination recommendation is to purge
      > air, it seems like the biggest risk would be to have a problem after
      > running a tank dry.
      >
      > How many times have you run a tank dry?  Did you ever have any
      > problems with the pump picking up its prime after running a tank dry?
      >
      > Take care,
      >
      > --
      > Kevin Horton         RV-8 (mounting wings)
      > Ottawa, Canada
      > http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
      >
      > _-
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
From: 
Garry LeGare <"versadek"@earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Inclination on fuel pump
      
      
      Gary,
      No one has a problem with you commenting on issues. It's how.
      Answering my post with the facts comment and referring to me as a "almighty Tech
      Counselor" is what ticks people off.
      Each year as a "almighty Tech Counselor" I inspect at least 35 projects and field
      about 100 panicky phone calls from builders. I receive nothing for this, except
      the satisfaction of knowing I've helped a fellow builder.
      Garry LeGare EAA 94585
      Tech Counselor
      RV6 Finishing
      
      
      Gary Zilik wrote:
      
      >
      > >
      >
      > The fuel pump debate can go on forever and they most likely will work forever
      > mounted in any orientation. The fact is that the manufacture states how they
      > want it mounted, end of story. Of course being homebuilders we can mount the
      > pump anyway we want. Thats the beauty of these little planes. The fact that
      > the pump works mounted horizontal has been proven by Rutan and the kit cars,
      I
      > accept that.  That does not mean it is right. Mine is mounted as per Van's
      > plans and the manufactuers instructions. All opinions must be voiced on the
      > list, can I not voice mine.?
      >
      > >
      > > Gary
      > >
      > > I'm glad you have appointed yourself as the RV list Censor. Since only your
      > > opinion is correct shall we all send ower corrispondance to you for
      > > approvial before we post it on the list.
      >
      > The day I think I know everything I will stop reading the list. Granted there
      > is  very little to learn from most of the drabble but sometimes a gold nugget
      > comes through. I am sorry if I offended you in my post, but I was offended by
      > the rightous statement that I responed to. The almighty Tech Consulor is
      > quoted in my post, those are not my words. While I may agree with his
      > statement that the list should  limit input to tech matters I don't flame
      > people for voicing there opinion. Opinion is what makes the list a usefull
      > tool. I still stand behind the two facts I posted in my reply.
      >
      > I am offended that you think I was acting as a censor. Can I not disagree with
      > someones statement?
      >
      > Gary
      > Just a builder who don't know nothin
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > Gary Zilik wrote:
      > >
      > > >
      > > > > THE
      > > > > LIST would be a lot more useful, if posters would limit there input on
      > > > > technical matters, to what they know to be fact.
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > Fact: the manufacture recomends mounting the pump at a 45 degree angle.
      > > >
      > > > Fact: The pump does not pump very well if not purged of air.
      > > >
      > > > --
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
N-Number size - 3" or 12"
From: 
pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
       17, 2001) at 04/19/2001 02:44:54 PM
      
      
      Hi All,
      
      As my -4 nears completion, I have initiated conversations with several
      DARs.  One was "quite certain" my aircraft would require 12" N-numbers due
      to its high cruising speed.  I'm hopeful, but I doubt that it will go any
      faster than any other RV-4 (with a 180 hp).  Can anyone provide me with
      their help/experiences regarding N-number dimensions?
      
      Thanks in advance,
      
      Dean Pichon
      RV-4
      Arlington, MA
      **** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of
      Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain
      confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee
      only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not
      the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible.****
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
From: 
Thomas McIntyre <bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Dream Machines @ HMB
      
      
      I just got of the phone with the Chino air Musuem and they said YES that
      the Northrop Flying Wing will be there.  Not a scale model as I earlier
      reported
      Tom
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: 
Re: N-Number size - 3" or 12"
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      Here is the controlling FAR...
      
      45.29 Size of marks.
      (a) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, each operator of an
      aircraft shall display marks on the aircraft meeting the size requirements
      of this section.
      (b) Height. Except as provided in paragraph (h) of this part, the
      nationality and registration marks must be of equal height and on -
      (1) Fixed-wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that:
      (i) An aircraft displaying marks at least 2 inches high before November 1,
      1981 and an aircraft manufactured after November 2, 1981, but before January
      1, 1983, may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted or the
      marks are repainted, restored, or changed;
      (ii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on a glider;
      
      (iii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on an aircraft for which
      an experimental certificate has been issued under 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for
      operating as an exhibition aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft when the
      maximum cruising speed of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS; and
      
      (iv) Marks may be displayed on an exhibition, antique, or other aircraft in
      accordance with 45.22.
      (2) Airships, spherical balloons, and nonspherical balloons, must be at
      least 3 inches high; and
      (3) Rotorcraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that rotorcraft
      displaying before April 18, 1983, marks required by 45.29(b)(3) in effect on
      April 17, 1983, and rotorcraft manufactured on or after April 18, 1983, but
      before December 31, 1983, may display those marks until the aircraft is
      repainted or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed.
      (c) Width. Characters must be two-thirds as wide as they are high, except
      the number "1", which must be one-sixth as wide as it is high, and the
      letters "M" and "W" which may be as wide as they are high.
      (d) Thickness. Characters must be formed by solid lines one-sixth as thick
      as the character is high.
      (e) Spacing. The space between each character may not be less than
      one-fourth of the character width.
      (f) If either one of the surfaces authorized for displaying required marks
      under 45.25 is large enough for display of marks meeting the size
      requirements of this section and the other is not, full-size marks shall be
      placed on the larger surface. If neither surface is large enough for
      full-size marks, marks as large as practicable shall be displayed on the
      larger of the two surfaces. If any surface authorized to be marked by 45.27
      is not large enough for full-size marks, marks as large as practicable shall
      be placed on the largest of the authorized surfaces.
      (g) Uniformity. The marks required by this part for fixed-wing aircraft must
      have the same height, width, thickness, and spacing on both sides of the
      aircraft.
      (h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an ADIZ or
      DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent nationality and
      registration marks at least 12 inches high.
      
      Section iii is for you.  Unless you intend to fly a ADIZ or DEWIZ then if
      your cruising speed is 180 KNOTS CAS you can use the 3". Note! Canada
      doesn't count.
      
      Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com>
      Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 1:46 PM
      Subject: RV-List: N-Number size - 3" or 12"
      
      
      >
      > Hi All,
      >
      > As my -4 nears completion, I have initiated conversations with several
      > DARs.  One was "quite certain" my aircraft would require 12" N-numbers due
      > to its high cruising speed.  I'm hopeful, but I doubt that it will go any
      > faster than any other RV-4 (with a 180 hp).  Can anyone provide me with
      > their help/experiences regarding N-number dimensions?
      >
      > Thanks in advance,
      >
      > Dean Pichon
      > RV-4
      > Arlington, MA
      > **** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of
      > Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain
      > confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee
      > only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not
      > the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible.****
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
Subject: 
N-Number size - 3" or 12"
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      Here are a couple of things to consider, based upon my experience:
      
      1.  check the archives.  There have been some in-depth debates on this in
      the last couple of years.
      
      2.  YOU'RE the manufacturer and you specify top speeds, cruise speeds, etc.
      Don't (necessarily) go by what someone else say's their plane will do.
      Remember, RV's have a reputation as being a fast plane.  Don't let this work
      unfairly against you without justification.
      
      3.  My FAA rep just asked if the plane fell within the speed requirements
      for 3" letters.  I truthfully answered and said I expect that it will.  He
      said OK.
      
      4.  As with this METO stuff, it's possible you'll get a DAR or FAA rep who
      is out in left field.  Do your homework and present your case.  You may get
      what you want.  
      
      12" letters are kind of like voluntarily allowing a search of your car when
      stopped for a ticket - unnecessary legal exposure.  But go ahead with
      allowing the search (12" letters!) if you think they're going to take you to
      jail otherwise.
      
      Bryan Jones -8 765BJ
      Pearland, Texas
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Steve Mullins" <smullins(at)lib.drury.edu>
Subject: 
Bottom Cowling reinforcement
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      Hellow everyone. I am a new RV4 owner, and could use some ideas on how to
      reinforce my bottom cowl so that aerodynamic pressure at cruise speeds won't
      push the cowl in to the point of the exhaust stacks rubbing and wearing
      through the cowl. Any ideas would be appreciated.
      
      Steve Mullins, PhD.
      Associate Professor of Economics
      Drury University
      417 873 7299 (Office)
      417 873 7537 (Fax)
      417 889 5609 (Home)
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "rob ray" <smokyray(at)yahoo.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:34 PM
      Subject: Re: RV4-List: Fw: RV-List: Everybody went to S & F except me!
      
      
      > --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray 
      >
      > Hi Chuck;
      >
      >   Coming from a No-Cal'r who flew his RV4 to SNF, the
      > Dash Seven looked mighty nice, even if all you have to
      > do is dump a bucket of clecoes in the box, shake it
      > and an airplane pops out....Bottom line: RV's ruled,
      > others drooled.
      >  The Cross country of two RV4's from NoCal out to
      > Lakeland was an adventure all it's own. 12 hours of
      > flying and five fuel stops. I counted 38 RV's on the
      > grass Sunday plus the four in front of Van's tent and
      > Bruce Bohannons Tiger and -4. Alot more came and went
      > during the week.  I even had a chance to visit with
      > the man himself for a casual chat on several subjects.
      > I asked him if he was going to discontinue the -4 now
      > that the -8 was so popular. He responded with a
      > chuckle: If I did that, how would the Harmon Rocket
      > guys get parts...
      >
      >
      > --- Chuck Rabaut  wrote:
      > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Chuck Rabaut"
      > > 
      > >
      > > Jim,
      > >
      > >     You are oh so right!!!
      > >
      > >             Chuck
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: Jim Bower <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com>
      > > > Anyhoo, that's why Van's makes RVs in so many
      > > flavors, right?  At least we
      > > > have to study plans, measure, make jigs, measure,
      > > drill, measure, sweat,
      > > > measure, and curse to build our airplanes like
      > > real men do!  (Instead of
      > > > those wussy -7 & -9 guys!)
      > > >
      > > > Jim
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > through
      > >
      > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
      > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
      > >
      > > Matronics!
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
      > http://auctions.yahoo.com/
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
DWENSING(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Raleigh, NC visit
      
      
      In a message dated 4/16/01 5:33:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
      e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
      
      << a small airport where locals hangout and do a lot of hanger flying and
       lying. >>
      Earl Fortner- what airport is that?
      Dale Ensing
      RV builder - new to Charlotte
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Re: Andair gascolator question
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      Mark,
      
      Are you talking about the fuel bowl to the housing or the housing to the 
      firewall.  For the fuel bowl itself, line up the arrow on the bowl with the 
      front of the upper housing.  There is an aligning pine in the upper housing 
      that fits into the top of the fuel bowl lip.  Then the locking ring screws 
      onto the fuel bowl.  Tighten the locking ring hand tight only.  Then you can 
      use safety wire to keep it in place.
      
      If you are talking about the housing to the firewall I made a brackett out 
      of angle aluminum that bolts to the top of the housing.
      
      Mike Robertson
      RV8A
      
      
      >From: czechsix(at)juno.com
      >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
      >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: RV-List: Andair gascolator question
      >Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 06:41:25 -0500
      >
      >
      >Can someone explain to me how the Andair gascolator bowl is attached?
      >I've found a few pictures on the web, and I don't see any screws like
      >Vans gascolator has, just an arrow and some safety wire....   Does the
      >whole thing screw into the base, or is it a 'twist and lock' type
      >operation with safety wire added just for extra security?
      >
      >Thanks,
      >
      >--Mark Navratil
      >Cedar Rapids, Iowa
      >RV-8A fuselage, O-360-A4A, Sensenich 87"
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com>
Subject: 
Re: Andair gascolator question
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      Mark,
      
      The bowl has a small pin in the front and another in the back that point up.
      The locations of each pin is marked with a small circle on the bowl.  These
      are indexing pins.  The pins mate with the top part of the gascolator.
      There is an o-ring around the top of the bowl.  Just line up the pins and
      push the bowl up into the body.  The o-ring makes it a tight fit.  There is
      a lock ring with threads that spins freely on the base of the gascolator
      body.  Once the bowl is inserted spin the ring to ingage the threads on the
      bowl and tighten it up.   The spinning lock ring has several holes through
      it for safety wiring.
      
      These are first class units.  The feature that is note worthy is where the
      in and out fittings attach.  Once a fitting is tightened, it may point in
      the wrong direction.  No problem, the assembly the fitting screws into will
      come out and can be rotated and reinstalled to get the fitting pointing in
      the right direction!
      
      I have the fuel selector also, and it is excellent too.  Well worth the
      extra $$.
      
      Jerry Calvert
      Edmond Ok
      -6 fuselage/finish kit
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <czechsix(at)juno.com>
      Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 6:41 AM
      Subject: RV-List: Andair gascolator question
      
      
      >
      > Can someone explain to me how the Andair gascolator bowl is attached?
      > I've found a few pictures on the web, and I don't see any screws like
      > Vans gascolator has, just an arrow and some safety wire....   Does the
      > whole thing screw into the base, or is it a 'twist and lock' type
      > operation with safety wire added just for extra security?
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      > --Mark Navratil
      > Cedar Rapids, Iowa
      > RV-8A fuselage, O-360-A4A, Sensenich 87"
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
HCRV6(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Engine Movement
      
      
      In a message dated 4/17/01 3:28:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jwiza1(at)yahoo.com 
      writes:
      
      << As my engine mounts settled inI found the front of the engine dropped 
      approx 1/4-3/8". installing a washer on the bottom of the mounts corrected 
      the problem >>
      
      
      Question:  Do you mean install a washer at the engine mount to fuselage or at 
      lower engine to engine mounts?
      
      Harry Crosby
      Pleasanton, California
      RV-6, finish kit stuff
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
From: 
Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: 
Re: Inclination on fuel pump
      
      
      Garry,
      
      While your Q2 experience does give a certain level of comfort, the 
      differences between the Q2 and RV design and operation make it 
      difficult to take full credit for the Q2 service history when 
      considering our aircraft.  For example, it seems that you have never 
      ran the pump dry and then immediately had it reprime in the Q2.  Even 
      if your fuel system was installed as Van recommended, it would be a 
      good idea to find out what happens when you run a tank dry.  I would 
      rather do this test under controlled conditions than to find out the 
      hard way when this happens and you are not expecting it.
      
      It might be a good idea to practice some simulated forced landings 
      (i.e. pull the engine to idle and leave it there until touch down). 
      Then once you have confidence that you are 100% current in forced 
      landings, fly around overhead a quiet airport with a reasonably long 
      runway, and run on one tank until the engine quits.  Note what 
      warnings you have that the engine is about to quit.  Wait a few 
      seconds (to make this test somewhat representative of what would 
      happen in a real event), then do whatever procedure you have 
      established for an engine failure (boost pump ON, change tanks, 
      mixture to RICH, carb heat ON, etc).  Note how long it takes for the 
      engine to restart.  If your engine has difficulty restarting, you may 
      need to change your emergency procedures, or you may need to change 
      your fuel system design (or maybe you just have a bad component that 
      needs to be changed) to allow it to purge the air better.
      
      This is a good test for anyone to do during their test phase.  It 
      will help validate that your fuel system design and components are 
      acceptable.  It will also help validate your emergency procedures, 
      and it will help you be better prepared for a real event if it ever 
      occurs.  It will also give you confidence if you ever have a low fuel 
      situation, and want to deliberately run one tank dry.  You'll feel a 
      lot better about doing that if you have done this test.
      
      Take care,
      
      Kevin
      
      >
      >Kevan, excellent question and example of why your postings are among 
      >the ones I
      >always read.
      >
      >Yes, on my Q2 I used to run the tank dry quite often. Over the 
      >course of approx.
      >1050 hr,  I probably ran the main tank dry 100 times, and no, I never had a
      >problem with the pumps self priming abilities.
      >To properly understand my answer you should be supplied with an explanation of
      >the fuel system of my particular Q2.
      >The fuel system was composed of two fuel tanks, a 22 gal lower tank and a 6.5
      >gal header tank above it.
      >Fuel was pumped from the lower tank to the header tank by the same model Facet
      >pump as Van recommends.
      >The pump was mounted horizontally on top of the lower fuel tank, perpendicular
      >to the direction of flight. The pump ran continuously as the header tank
      >incorporated an overflow tube, that returned the excess fuel to the 
      >lower tank.
      >When the lower tank ran dry, I would shut the pump off. The lower tank fuel
      >gauge was mechanical similar to a Citabria wing tank, and was fairly accurate.
      >The header tank which had a deep sump, and was well baffled, used a sight tube
      >mounted on the dash, which was extremely accurate. The carb was 
      >gravity fed from
      >the header tank.
      >Since the engine burned approx. 3.5 gal per hr in cruise, it was not 
      >unusual on
      >short flights to start out with only a couple of gallons in the 
      >lower tank, and
      >run it dry.
      >
      >However there are some significant differences between the above 
      >system and the
      >standard system in an RV6.
      >
      >  The RV6 pump must pull fuel through approx. 75" of 3/8 th tube, a valve and
      5
      >bends.
      >My Q2 system, 16" of 1/4" tube and one bend.
      >But the RV6 system has a significant advantage, the engine driven pump is also
      >pulling. Unless of coarse you have a engine driven pump failure just 
      >as you run
      >a tank dry.
      >
      >I had  the pump fail twice in the 1000 + hrs both times it was the switching
      >transistor. I replaced the transistor, which used to be surface 
      >mounted and easy
      >to replace.
      >Why did the transistors fail? I don't know.
      >Could it have been from the vibration of the pump running dry? Quite 
      >possibly as
      >the pumps really rattle when they start to run dry.
      >Garry LeGare, EAA 94585
      >Tech Counselor
      >RV6 Finishing
      >
      >Kevin Horton wrote:
      >
      >>  >
      >>  >
      >>
      >>  Garry,
      >>
      >>  If the reason for the 45 deg inclination recommendation is to purge
      >>  air, it seems like the biggest risk would be to have a problem after
      >>  running a tank dry.
      >>
      >>  How many times have you run a tank dry?  Did you ever have any
      >>  problems with the pump picking up its prime after running a tank dry?
      >>
      >>  Take care,
      >>
      >>  --
      >>  Kevin Horton         RV-8 (mounting wings)
      >>  Ottawa, Canada
      >>  http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
      >>
      >  > _-
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
HCRV6(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
Subject: 
Facet Pump Orientation
      
      
      After following with great interest the thread on pump orientation I decided 
      to e-mail the manufacturer for their advice.  FWIW here is their unedited 
      reply:    
      
      "Harry:
      
      It is not essential to have the pump positioned as recommended.  The pump
      will work in most any orientation....the preferred orientation is intended to
      minimize vapor lock and to assure good priming.
      
      Regards
      
      Craig S. Weber
      Technical Director
      Purolator Products"  
      
      The last phrase sorta says it all in my opinion.  Like I said, for what it's 
      worth.
      
      Harry Crosby
      Pleasanton, California
      RV-6, finish kit stuff
      
      
      Harry Crosby
      Pleasanton, California
      RV-6, finish kit stuff
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
From: 
rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Re: RV4-List: Bottom Cowling reinforcement
      
      
      Hi Steve;
      
        What type exhaust are you using, how much clearance
      do the pipes have when not going 150 knots and how is
      your cowl attached?
      
      Rob Ray
      RV4 N557RR
      --- Steve Mullins  wrote:
      > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Steve Mullins"
      > 
      > 
      > Hellow everyone. I am a new RV4 owner, and could use
      > some ideas on how to
      > reinforce my bottom cowl so that aerodynamic
      > pressure at cruise speeds won't
      > push the cowl in to the point of the exhaust stacks
      > rubbing and wearing
      > through the cowl. Any ideas would be appreciated.
      > 
      > Steve Mullins, PhD.
      > Associate Professor of Economics
      > Drury University
      > 417 873 7299 (Office)
      > 417 873 7537 (Fax)
      > 417 889 5609 (Home)
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "rob ray" <smokyray(at)yahoo.com>
      > To: 
      > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:34 PM
      > Subject: Re: RV4-List: Fw: RV-List: Everybody went
      > to S & F except me!
      > 
      > 
      > > --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray
      > 
      > >
      > > Hi Chuck;
      > >
      > >   Coming from a No-Cal'r who flew his RV4 to SNF,
      > the
      > > Dash Seven looked mighty nice, even if all you
      > have to
      > > do is dump a bucket of clecoes in the box, shake
      > it
      > > and an airplane pops out....Bottom line: RV's
      > ruled,
      > > others drooled.
      > >  The Cross country of two RV4's from NoCal out to
      > > Lakeland was an adventure all it's own. 12 hours
      > of
      > > flying and five fuel stops. I counted 38 RV's on
      > the
      > > grass Sunday plus the four in front of Van's tent
      > and
      > > Bruce Bohannons Tiger and -4. Alot more came and
      > went
      > > during the week.  I even had a chance to visit
      > with
      > > the man himself for a casual chat on several
      > subjects.
      > > I asked him if he was going to discontinue the -4
      > now
      > > that the -8 was so popular. He responded with a
      > > chuckle: If I did that, how would the Harmon
      > Rocket
      > > guys get parts...
      > >
      > >
      > > --- Chuck Rabaut  wrote:
      > > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Chuck Rabaut"
      > > > 
      > > >
      > > > Jim,
      > > >
      > > >     You are oh so right!!!
      > > >
      > > >             Chuck
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: Jim Bower <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com>
      > > > > Anyhoo, that's why Van's makes RVs in so many
      > > > flavors, right?  At least we
      > > > > have to study plans, measure, make jigs,
      > measure,
      > > > drill, measure, sweat,
      > > > > measure, and curse to build our airplanes like
      > > > real men do!  (Instead of
      > > > > those wussy -7 & -9 guys!)
      > > > >
      > > > > Jim
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > through
      > > >
      > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
      > > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
      > > >
      > > > Matronics!
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great
      > prices
      > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/
      > >
      > >
      > 
      > 
      >
      > through
      >
      > http://www.matronics.com/archives
      > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
      >
      > Matronics!
      >
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
      Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
      http://auctions.yahoo.com/
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
From: 
rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Re: Everybody went to S & F except me!
      
      
      Chuck;
      
      Amen Brother. I guess the -4's sales sealed the deal
      so to speak. Quick builds and matched drilling go to
      the high sellers. Talking with the Van's folks at SNF,
      it's easy to see the direction Van's is going, away
      from jigs and drilling. I personally think the 7,8 and
      9 and the future 10 are the new breed. 
       I agree, the RV4 is still the best looking and flying
      of the bunch and I plan on keeping mine a long
      time....
      
      Rob Ray
      N557RR 
      --- Chuck Rabaut  wrote:
      > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Chuck Rabaut"
      > 
      > 
      > Rob,
      > 
      >     I'm glad you had fun and that's great to hear,
      > but you should've
      > reminded him that a Quick Build 4 is what's really
      > needed (I mean I'm not
      > complaining {well not at this moment} but God knows
      > the 4 is way cool but
      > God also knows you sure suffer trying to figure out
      > how to get it together).
      > 
      >             Chuck
      > 
      > 
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com>
      > To: 
      > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:34 PM
      > Subject: Re: RV4-List: Fw: RV-List: Everybody went
      > to S & F except me!
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > >
      > > Hi Chuck;
      > >
      > >   Coming from a No-Cal'r who flew his RV4 to SNF,
      > the
      > > Dash Seven looked mighty nice, even if all you
      > have to
      > > do is dump a bucket of clecoes in the box, shake
      > it
      > > and an airplane pops out....Bottom line: RV's
      > ruled,
      > > others drooled.
      > >  The Cross country of two RV4's from NoCal out to
      > > Lakeland was an adventure all it's own. 12 hours
      > of
      > > flying and five fuel stops. I counted 38 RV's on
      > the
      > > grass Sunday plus the four in front of Van's tent
      > and
      > > Bruce Bohannons Tiger and -4. Alot more came and
      > went
      > > during the week.  I even had a chance to visit
      > with
      > > the man himself for a casual chat on several
      > subjects.
      > > I asked him if he was going to discontinue the -4
      > now
      > > that the -8 was so popular. He responded with a
      > > chuckle: If I did that, how would the Harmon
      > Rocket
      > > guys get parts...
      > >
      > >
      > > --- Chuck Rabaut  wrote:
      > > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Chuck Rabaut"
      > > > 
      > > >
      > > > Jim,
      > > >
      > > >     You are oh so right!!!
      > > >
      > > >             Chuck
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: Jim Bower <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com>
      > > > > Anyhoo, that's why Van's makes RVs in so many
      > > > flavors, right?  At least we
      > > > > have to study plans, measure, make jigs,
      > measure,
      > > > drill, measure, sweat,
      > > > > measure, and curse to build our airplanes like
      > > > real men do!  (Instead of
      > > > > those wussy -7 & -9 guys!)
      > > > >
      > > > > Jim
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > through
      > > >
      > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
      > > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
      > > >
      > > > Matronics!
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great
      > prices
      > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/
      > >
      > >
      > 
      > 
      >
      > through
      >
      > http://www.matronics.com/archives
      > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
      >
      > Matronics!
      >
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
      Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
      http://auctions.yahoo.com/
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: 
Everybody went to S & F except me!
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      And a big AMEN from the choir!
      --
      Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
      Network Administrator
      Union Safe Deposit Bank
      209-946-5116
      
      
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From:        rob ray [mailto:smokyray(at)yahoo.com]
                      Sent:        Thursday, April 19, 2001 4:43 PM
                      To:        rv4-list(at)matronics.com
                      Subject:        Re: Fw: RV4-List: Fw: RV-List: Everybody
      went to S & F except me!
      
      
                      Chuck;
      
                      Amen Brother. I guess the -4's sales sealed the deal
                      so to speak. Quick builds and matched drilling go to
                      the high sellers. Talking with the Van's folks at SNF,
                      it's easy to see the direction Van's is going, away
                      from jigs and drilling. I personally think the 7,8 and
                      9 and the future 10 are the new breed. 
                       I agree, the RV4 is still the best looking and flying
                      of the bunch and I plan on keeping mine a long
                      time....
      
                      Rob Ray
                      N557RR 
                      --- Chuck Rabaut  wrote:
                      > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Chuck Rabaut"
                      > 
                      > 
                      > Rob,
                      > 
                      >     I'm glad you had fun and that's great to hear,
                      > but you should've
                      > reminded him that a Quick Build 4 is what's really
                      > needed (I mean I'm not
                      > complaining {well not at this moment} but God knows
                      > the 4 is way cool but
                      > God also knows you sure suffer trying to figure out
                      > how to get it together).
                      > 
                      >             Chuck
                      > 
                      > 
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com>
                      > To: 
                      > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:34 PM
                      > Subject: Re: RV4-List: Fw: RV-List: Everybody went
                      > to S & F except me!
                      > 
                      > 
                      > 
                      > >
                      > > Hi Chuck;
                      > >
                      > >   Coming from a No-Cal'r who flew his RV4 to SNF,
                      > the
                      > > Dash Seven looked mighty nice, even if all you
                      > have to
                      > > do is dump a bucket of clecoes in the box, shake
                      > it
                      > > and an airplane pops out....Bottom line: RV's
                      > ruled,
                      > > others drooled.
                      > >  The Cross country of two RV4's from NoCal out to
                      > > Lakeland was an adventure all it's own. 12 hours
                      > of
                      > > flying and five fuel stops. I counted 38 RV's on
                      > the
                      > > grass Sunday plus the four in front of Van's tent
                      > and
                      > > Bruce Bohannons Tiger and -4. Alot more came and
                      > went
                      > > during the week.  I even had a chance to visit
                      > with
                      > > the man himself for a casual chat on several
                      > subjects.
                      > > I asked him if he was going to discontinue the -4
                      > now
                      > > that the -8 was so popular. He responded with a
                      > > chuckle: If I did that, how would the Harmon
                      > Rocket
                      > > guys get parts...
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- Chuck Rabaut  wrote:
                      > > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Chuck Rabaut"
                      > > > 
                      > > >
                      > > > Jim,
                      > > >
                      > > >     You are oh so right!!!
                      > > >
                      > > >             Chuck
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > From: Jim Bower <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com>
                      > > > > Anyhoo, that's why Van's makes RVs in so many
                      > > > flavors, right?  At least we
                      > > > > have to study plans, measure, make jigs,
                      > measure,
                      > > > drill, measure, sweat,
                      > > > > measure, and curse to build our airplanes like
                      > > > real men do!  (Instead of
                      > > > > those wussy -7 & -9 guys!)
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Jim
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > through
                      > > >
                      > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
                      > > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
                      > > >
                      > > > Matronics!
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great
                      > prices
                      > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/
                      > >
                      > >
                      > 
                      > 
                      >
                      > through
                      >
                      > http://www.matronics.com/archives
                      > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
                      >
                      > Matronics!
                      >
                      > 
                      > 
                      > 
                      > 
      
      
                      Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
                      http://auctions.yahoo.com/
      
      
              
              
              
              
      
      
                      
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
HCRV6(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Andair gascolator question
      
      
      In a message dated 4/19/01 4:43:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
      czechsix(at)juno.com writes:
      
      << or is it a 'twist and lock' type operation with safety wire added just for 
      extra security? >>
      
      Basically yes, except that you release the bowl by unscrewing the black 
      locking ring at the top of the bowl.  I'm still playing with mine while 
      working out a left wing root mounting set up.  Nice piece of hardware.
      
      Harry Crosby
      Pleasanton, California
      RV-6, finish kit stuff
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"William Davis" <rvpilot(at)mpinet.net>
Subject: 
Re: Bottom Cowling reinforcement
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      Steve,
      
      On an earlier RV-4, I built a short strut that clamped to the lower cross
      member of the engine mount at the firewall. It was just long enough to
      lightly press against the lower cowl when at rest.
      
      Bill, RV-8  N48WD
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Steve Mullins" <smullins(at)lib.drury.edu>
      Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 3:48 PM
      Subject: RV-List: Bottom Cowling reinforcement
      
      
      >
      > Hellow everyone. I am a new RV4 owner, and could use some ideas on how to
      > reinforce my bottom cowl so that aerodynamic pressure at cruise speeds
      won't
      > push the cowl in to the point of the exhaust stacks rubbing and wearing
      > through the cowl. Any ideas would be appreciated.
      >
      > Steve Mullins, PhD.
      > Associate Professor of Economics
      > Drury University
      > 417 873 7299 (Office)
      > 417 873 7537 (Fax)
      > 417 889 5609 (Home)
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "rob ray" <smokyray(at)yahoo.com>
      > To: 
      > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:34 PM
      > Subject: Re: RV4-List: Fw: RV-List: Everybody went to S & F except me!
      >
      >
      > > --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray 
      > >
      > > Hi Chuck;
      > >
      > >   Coming from a No-Cal'r who flew his RV4 to SNF, the
      > > Dash Seven looked mighty nice, even if all you have to
      > > do is dump a bucket of clecoes in the box, shake it
      > > and an airplane pops out....Bottom line: RV's ruled,
      > > others drooled.
      > >  The Cross country of two RV4's from NoCal out to
      > > Lakeland was an adventure all it's own. 12 hours of
      > > flying and five fuel stops. I counted 38 RV's on the
      > > grass Sunday plus the four in front of Van's tent and
      > > Bruce Bohannons Tiger and -4. Alot more came and went
      > > during the week.  I even had a chance to visit with
      > > the man himself for a casual chat on several subjects.
      > > I asked him if he was going to discontinue the -4 now
      > > that the -8 was so popular. He responded with a
      > > chuckle: If I did that, how would the Harmon Rocket
      > > guys get parts...
      > >
      > >
      > > --- Chuck Rabaut  wrote:
      > > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Chuck Rabaut"
      > > > 
      > > >
      > > > Jim,
      > > >
      > > >     You are oh so right!!!
      > > >
      > > >             Chuck
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: Jim Bower <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com>
      > > > > Anyhoo, that's why Van's makes RVs in so many
      > > > flavors, right?  At least we
      > > > > have to study plans, measure, make jigs, measure,
      > > > drill, measure, sweat,
      > > > > measure, and curse to build our airplanes like
      > > > real men do!  (Instead of
      > > > > those wussy -7 & -9 guys!)
      > > > >
      > > > > Jim
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > through
      > > >
      > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
      > > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
      > > >
      > > > Matronics!
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
      > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"William Davis" <rvpilot(at)mpinet.net>
Subject: 
avionics
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      Listers,
      
      Who out there has the best prices nowdays on new avionics?
      
      Thanks, Bill RV-8  N48WD
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
Subject: 
Re: could this be vapor lock?
      
      
      Follow-up on my suspected vapor lock problem in the RV-6A is now possible, as 
      my first flight since the problem showed up has now been completed.  I 
      screwed up my courage today, and, with an aggressive flight profile in mind, 
      climbed out at Vy until 3500 feet AGL while circling home field.  I then 
      headed out to Bob Barrows' place for a session with his Hodges Fuel 
      Volatility Tester.  I ran on the avgas tank and with the fuel pump on the 
      whole time.  The only little problem was one I had experienced a time or two 
      before on turf strips: the engine choked and quit at the end of the roll-out, 
      after trailing clouds of black smoke most of the way down the runway (so Bob 
      tells me; I never saw it.)  Seems the carb is set a bit too rich at idle, or 
      maybe the floats are letting too much fuel get by when they are jiggled and 
      bounced around.  
      
      This rich idle problem may somehow play into the in-flight stumbling I was 
      having on that hot day last weekend; it's difficult to know for sure.  I plan 
      to look into it very soon, pull the carb and check the floats, needle and 
      seat, maybe replace the main jet with one that isn't drilled out so much (I 
      took it from a #43 to a #37 drill bit size, in one jump, about 3 years ago.  
      It seems I overshot the correct setting just a bit.)
      
      The upshot of the fuel testing is that my winter blend premium mogas has a 
      reading of 7.5, while the 100LL measures 9.5  Both these readings are in the 
      "green arc" of the tester, but the higher numbers mean more vacuum can be 
      pulled in the syringe before the fuel specimen begins to boil.  I neglected 
      to note what the units were; probably inches of mercury, vacuum.  The test 
      was performed at 1100 feet MSL, which I am sure affects the readings slightly 
      vs. sea-level.  
      
      Hard to tell if 2 units higher volatility means the mogas was responsible for 
      the engine's coughing as I throttled back in cruise on that unusually warm 
      day April 7th.  The carburetor may be somehow to blame.  The search 
      continues.  Meanwhile, the price of premium auto fuel has climbed so much, 
      100LL is hardly any more expensive.  Good grief!
      
      Discussion and advice always welcome - that's why I share this stuff.
      
      Bill Boyd
      RV-6A O-320/Sensenich FP
      Hop-Along Air Field, 12VA
      Clifton Forge, VA
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: 
RV6-A Nose Wheel & Tube
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      List:  I just mounted my RV6-A Tire & Tube for the Nose Gear and only needed
      ONE TUBE!!! I guess all those years of Dirt Bike Riding paid off, but I have
      to admit this was one tough job.
             The secret for me was to use GOJO on the tire bead so the rim half
      with the valve stem hole could be pushed down on the tire until seated. I
      then took the tube out of the box and fitted it between the rim half and
      inserted into the tire as far back as possible. Lube the other bead of the
      tire and push the remaining rim half down just far enough to get a turn or
      two on each of the 3 bolt and nut combinations.
             Now reach in the rim and with one finger make sure the tube hasn't
      worked it's way between the two halves and torque each bolt to 90 in.lbs..
            Inflate and dance around the hanger!  Worked for me!
      
      Tom in Ohio
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Steve Mullins" <smullins(at)lib.drury.edu>
Subject: 
Re: Everybody went to S & F except me!
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      Double AMEN to the flight characteristics and looks of the -4. I have only
      had mine for a few weeks (4 flight hours or so) and I can't wipe the silly
      grin from my face when thinking about, let alone actually flying, it!!!
      
      Steve Mullins, Ph.D.
      Associate Professor of Economics
      Drury University
      417.889.5609 (home)
      417.873.7299 (office)
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "rob ray" <smokyray(at)yahoo.com>
      Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 6:43 PM
      Subject: Re: Fw: RV4-List: Fw: RV-List: Everybody went to S & F except me!
      
      
      > --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray 
      >
      > Chuck;
      >
      > Amen Brother. I guess the -4's sales sealed the deal
      > so to speak. Quick builds and matched drilling go to
      > the high sellers. Talking with the Van's folks at SNF,
      > it's easy to see the direction Van's is going, away
      > from jigs and drilling. I personally think the 7,8 and
      > 9 and the future 10 are the new breed.
      >  I agree, the RV4 is still the best looking and flying
      > of the bunch and I plan on keeping mine a long
      > time....
      >
      > Rob Ray
      > N557RR
      > --- Chuck Rabaut  wrote:
      > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Chuck Rabaut"
      > > 
      > >
      > > Rob,
      > >
      > >     I'm glad you had fun and that's great to hear,
      > > but you should've
      > > reminded him that a Quick Build 4 is what's really
      > > needed (I mean I'm not
      > > complaining {well not at this moment} but God knows
      > > the 4 is way cool but
      > > God also knows you sure suffer trying to figure out
      > > how to get it together).
      > >
      > >             Chuck
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com>
      > > To: 
      > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:34 PM
      > > Subject: Re: RV4-List: Fw: RV-List: Everybody went
      > > to S & F except me!
      > >
      > >
      > > 
      > > >
      > > > Hi Chuck;
      > > >
      > > >   Coming from a No-Cal'r who flew his RV4 to SNF,
      > > the
      > > > Dash Seven looked mighty nice, even if all you
      > > have to
      > > > do is dump a bucket of clecoes in the box, shake
      > > it
      > > > and an airplane pops out....Bottom line: RV's
      > > ruled,
      > > > others drooled.
      > > >  The Cross country of two RV4's from NoCal out to
      > > > Lakeland was an adventure all it's own. 12 hours
      > > of
      > > > flying and five fuel stops. I counted 38 RV's on
      > > the
      > > > grass Sunday plus the four in front of Van's tent
      > > and
      > > > Bruce Bohannons Tiger and -4. Alot more came and
      > > went
      > > > during the week.  I even had a chance to visit
      > > with
      > > > the man himself for a casual chat on several
      > > subjects.
      > > > I asked him if he was going to discontinue the -4
      > > now
      > > > that the -8 was so popular. He responded with a
      > > > chuckle: If I did that, how would the Harmon
      > > Rocket
      > > > guys get parts...
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- Chuck Rabaut  wrote:
      > > > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Chuck Rabaut"
      > > > > 
      > > > >
      > > > > Jim,
      > > > >
      > > > >     You are oh so right!!!
      > > > >
      > > > >             Chuck
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > > From: Jim Bower <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com>
      > > > > > Anyhoo, that's why Van's makes RVs in so many
      > > > > flavors, right?  At least we
      > > > > > have to study plans, measure, make jigs,
      > > measure,
      > > > > drill, measure, sweat,
      > > > > > measure, and curse to build our airplanes like
      > > > > real men do!  (Instead of
      > > > > > those wussy -7 & -9 guys!)
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Jim
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > through
      > > > >
      > > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
      > > > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
      > > > >
      > > > > Matronics!
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great
      > > prices
      > > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > through
      > >
      > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
      > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
      > >
      > > Matronics!
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
      > http://auctions.yahoo.com/
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
Subject: 
Re: avionics
      
      
      In a message dated 4/19/01 10:43:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
      rvpilot(at)mpinet.net writes:
      
      
      > Listers,
      > 
      > Who out there has the best prices nowdays on new avionics?
      > 
      > Thanks, Bill RV-8  N48WD
      
      I've always found Chief to be competitive.  When I decided what I wanted, I 
      e-mailed (or called... don't remember) Chief, ACS, and Gulf Coast and told 
      them what my total order would be:  I listed the radio, intercom, 
      transponder, encoder, etc.. Then I told them that would be buying all of the 
      stuff from one source in the very near future, and requested their best price 
      for the entire mess.  Chief had the lowest price, and came down noticably 
      from their list prices.
      
      In addition, I have always found their order desk and tech support to be very 
      patient and helpful.
      
      
      Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
      RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com>
Subject: 
Re: Everybody went to S & F except me!
Date: 
Apr 19, 2001
      
      
      I am selling my RV-4 Empennage Kit with MAC Elevator Trim Kit.  I
      decided to build an RV-8. If anyone interested contact me at:
      
      newellmahal(at)earthlink.net
      
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Steve Mullins" <smullins(at)lib.drury.edu>
      Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 6:42 PM
      Subject: Re: Fw: RV4-List: Fw: RV-List: Everybody went to S & F except me!
      
      
      >
      > Double AMEN to the flight characteristics and looks of the -4. I have only
      > had mine for a few weeks (4 flight hours or so) and I can't wipe the silly
      > grin from my face when thinking about, let alone actually flying, it!!!
      >
      > Steve Mullins, Ph.D.
      > Associate Professor of Economics
      > Drury University
      > 417.889.5609 (home)
      > 417.873.7299 (office)
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "rob ray" <smokyray(at)yahoo.com>
      > To: 
      > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 6:43 PM
      > Subject: Re: Fw: RV4-List: Fw: RV-List: Everybody went to S & F except me!
      >
      >
      > > --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray 
      > >
      > > Chuck;
      > >
      > > Amen Brother. I guess the -4's sales sealed the deal
      > > so to speak. Quick builds and matched drilling go to
      > > the high sellers. Talking with the Van's folks at SNF,
      > > it's easy to see the direction Van's is going, away
      > > from jigs and drilling. I personally think the 7,8 and
      > > 9 and the future 10 are the new breed.
      > >  I agree, the RV4 is still the best looking and flying
      > > of the bunch and I plan on keeping mine a long
      > > time....
      > >
      > > Rob Ray
      > > N557RR
      > > --- Chuck Rabaut  wrote:
      > > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Chuck Rabaut"
      > > > 
      > > >
      > > > Rob,
      > > >
      > > >     I'm glad you had fun and that's great to hear,
      > > > but you should've
      > > > reminded him that a Quick Build 4 is what's really
      > > > needed (I mean I'm not
      > > > complaining {well not at this moment} but God knows
      > > > the 4 is way cool but
      > > > God also knows you sure suffer trying to figure out
      > > > how to get it together).
      > > >
      > > >             Chuck
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com>
      > > > To: 
      > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:34 PM
      > > > Subject: Re: RV4-List: Fw: RV-List: Everybody went
      > > > to S & F except me!
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > 
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi Chuck;
      > > > >
      > > > >   Coming from a No-Cal'r who flew his RV4 to SNF,
      > > > the
      > > > > Dash Seven looked mighty nice, even if all you
      > > > have to
      > > > > do is dump a bucket of clecoes in the box, shake
      > > > it
      > > > > and an airplane pops out....Bottom line: RV's
      > > > ruled,
      > > > > others drooled.
      > > > >  The Cross country of two RV4's from NoCal out to
      > > > > Lakeland was an adventure all it's own. 12 hours
      > > > of
      > > > > flying and five fuel stops. I counted 38 RV's on
      > > > the
      > > > > grass Sunday plus the four in front of Van's tent
      > > > and
      > > > > Bruce Bohannons Tiger and -4. Alot more came and
      > > > went
      > > > > during the week.  I even had a chance to visit
      > > > with
      > > > > the man himself for a casual chat on several
      > > > subjects.
      > > > > I asked him if he was going to discontinue the -4
      > > > now
      > > > > that the -8 was so popular. He responded with a
      > > > > chuckle: If I did that, how would the Harmon
      > > > Rocket
      > > > > guys get parts...
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- Chuck Rabaut  wrote:
      > > > > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Chuck Rabaut"
      > > > > > 
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Jim,
      > > > > >
      > > > > >     You are oh so right!!!
      > > > > >
      > > > > >             Chuck
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > > > From: Jim Bower <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com>
      > > > > > > Anyhoo, that's why Van's makes RVs in so many
      > > > > > flavors, right?  At least we
      > > > > > > have to study plans, measure, make jigs,
      > > > measure,
      > > > > > drill, measure, sweat,
      > > > > > > measure, and curse to build our airplanes like
      > > > > > real men do!  (Instead of
      > > > > > > those wussy -7 & -9 guys!)
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Jim
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > through
      > > > > >
      > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
      > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Matronics!
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great
      > > > prices
      > > > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > through
      > > >
      > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
      > > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
      > > >
      > > > Matronics!
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
      > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Chris & Susie" <rv6(at)ssc.net.au>
Subject: 
Pre wire harness relays
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
      
      
      Need help on orientation of wiring.
      
      
      Got the Pre wiring harness . Have put relays on firewall run leads all
      looked great until I found
      
      Drawing OP12  Section A-A  Top Left
      
      Please look at starter and master relay.    Shown is P17 going from left
      hand side of the starter relay to starter.  It also shows P16 going from
      right of starter relay to right of master relay.  This is also shown in
      the photos and plans showing how to set out the firewall to run wire,
      and in the RVator, Number 1 - 2000.
      
      
       Problem 
      Now look at drawing OP - 10, bottom left hand side and Lightweight
      starter circuit diagram.  This shows the opposite to all the other
      drawings and photos. e.g: P17 goes from the right hand side of the
      starter relay to the starter.  P16 goes from the right of the master
      relay to the left of the starter relay.
      
      So what is the go?  Which is the correct way?  Is OP12 and the photos
      wrong or are they both right.
      
      Thankyou
      
      Chris RV 6 Australia
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Chris & Susie" <rv6(at)ssc.net.au>
Subject: 
Aussie visit to US
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
      
      
      My wife and I will be travelling around the states for approximately 3
      months.  We will be landing at LA, going to Portland, going to Vans of
      course, then pop into Canada.  Then flying to Florida, spend a couple of
      weeks there, buy an old bomb (car), and spend about 6 weeks travelling
      to Evergreen, Colorado.  We will be in Evergreen for a month.
      
      We would love to meet any RV builders and flyers along the way.  Once in
      Colorado my wife is doing a course, so I am free for the month, if
      anyone needs a hand.  Would also like to go to Oshkosh if anyone would
      like to share expenses.
      
      If anyone has any suggestions of places that we must see please let us
      know.
      
      Please respond off the list.
      
      Thanks
      
      Chris and Susie
      
      P.S: We are building an RV 6, just finishing off the canopy.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
GRENIER(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
Subject: 
Air/Oil seperator
      
      
      Listers, I am thinking of installing an air-oil separator in my -4.  The 
      device I have has three inputs/outputs.  One is used to connect to the engine 
      breather port on the engine ( 360 A1A ), there is a small hose fitting for 
      the water drain, and a third that I assume is to return the recovered oil to 
      the engine.  My question is where to plumb the oil return line?  Any answers? 
      Thanks.
      
      Ray Grenier
      
      RV-4 the last and endless 90%
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: 
rv-8 video
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
      
      
      Anyone know what the status of this is?  Is it available for download
      somewhere?
      
      Larry Bowen
      RV-8 fuse Sloooooow Build ...
      Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
      Web: http://BowenAero.com
      
      
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
      > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steven DiNieri
      > Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 2:29 AM
      > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
      > Subject: RV-List: rv-8 video
      >
      >
      > I've got the first episode encoded( from the ground up) but need to put it
      > where those interested can get at it. Its 21 meg and in wmv
      > (windows media).
      > Any ideas?? Also the big version is about 80 meg...
      >
      >
      > Steven DiNieri
      > Niagara Falls, New York
      > RV-6A,  P28A-160
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
PANELCUT(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
Subject: 
Looking for a damaged RV4 canopy
      
      
      Listers
      
       I'm looking for someone with a damaged RV4 canopy that they want to get rid 
      of, you can contact me off list  (panelcut(at)aol.com)  or call me @ 
      (901)526-0491
      
      Steve Davis
      The Panel Pilot
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Marcel Bourgon" <mbourgon(at)elp.rr.com>
Subject: 
Re: Aussie visit to US
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
      
      
      Greetings form El Paso, Texas
      I am building a 9A and my friend has just received his empannage for the new
      7a.  Spent two weeks in Australia last year and would like to reciprocate in
      kind for your fine hospitality while were in your country.  If you plan on
      passing through El Paso, give me some warning and you would be welcome to
      stay with us for a bit.
      Marcel Bourgon
      mbourgon(at)elp.rr.com
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Chris & Susie <rv6(at)ssc.net.au>
      Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 4:24 AM
      Subject: RV-List: Aussie visit to US
      
      
      >
      > My wife and I will be travelling around the states for approximately 3
      > months.  We will be landing at LA, going to Portland, going to Vans of
      > course, then pop into Canada.  Then flying to Florida, spend a couple of
      > weeks there, buy an old bomb (car), and spend about 6 weeks travelling
      > to Evergreen, Colorado.  We will be in Evergreen for a month.
      >
      > We would love to meet any RV builders and flyers along the way.  Once in
      > Colorado my wife is doing a course, so I am free for the month, if
      > anyone needs a hand.  Would also like to go to Oshkosh if anyone would
      > like to share expenses.
      >
      > If anyone has any suggestions of places that we must see please let us
      > know.
      >
      > Please respond off the list.
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      > Chris and Susie
      >
      > P.S: We are building an RV 6, just finishing off the canopy.
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Johnny Johnson" <Johnny(at)wiktel.com>
Subject: 
METO and CG etc
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
      
      
      Eric said:
      
      << I mean why would 2 hours fuel put you in jeopardy more than nearly dry
      << tanks? If 10 gallons would put you in an aft CG condition then wouldn't
      << full tanks put you in a worse way? Can you explain the reasoning for the
      << DAR's concern to a simple country boy. Please use one syllable words or
      << less, if not I'm gonna have to call that damn Pugsley. That dog really
      << knows his milk bones.
      
      As you suggest, if the fuel is not located on the loaded CG of the airplane
      the amount of fuel will make a difference in where the CG is.  If the loaded
      CG is aft of the fuel, which is the case in my airplane, a light fuel load
      will aggravate an aft CG situation.
      
      I weigh on the bad side of 240... the CG moves waaaay aft when I sit down.
      :=((   If I sat down in an RV-3 that had a small engine and wood prop, it's
      possible that the CG would be aft of the aft limit no matter what the fuel
      load (and I would be writing the list asking how to mount the battery in the
      spinner...).
      
      That's not the case with my airplane, thank goodness.  If you find, as I
      suspect you will, that the CG moves aft with less fuel aboard when nothing
      else changes, then a light fuel load, large occupants, and lots of baggage
      behind the seat could be a bad deal IF your airplane tends to have an aft CG
      when loaded anyway.
      
      BTW, who is this Pugsley??   :=))
      
      Randy mentioned:
      
      << If I fly at maximum takeoff weight with two heavy
      << bubbas on board, I cannot fly down to less than 10 gallons of fuel on
      board
      << without exceeding the aft CG limit on the airplane.
      
      Randy, seriously, I would put something heavy up front, maybe a harmonic
      balancer (I assume you have a wood prop??) or something.  As Finn pointed
      out, you need to be within the CG envelope at flameout... you and Bubba will
      be in deep dodo if the fog rolls in and you need to burn below 10 gallons to
      get to an alternate, etc etc...
      
      Johnny Johnson
      49MM  RV-3 flying
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Tim Bryan" <timbryan(at)oregontrail.net>
Subject: 
Re: avionics
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
      
      
      I would have to second that.  I just came from Chief a week ago and talked
      avionics with them.  I was so impressed with the helpfullness and time they
      gave me I plan to buy there if they are even just close on price.
      
      Tim Bryan
      timbryan(at)oregontrail.net
      RV-6 Finishing kit stuff -ugh
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM>
      Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 8:01 PM
      Subject: Re: RV-List: avionics
      
      
      >
      > In a message dated 4/19/01 10:43:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
      > rvpilot(at)mpinet.net writes:
      >
      >
      > > Listers,
      > >
      > > Who out there has the best prices nowdays on new avionics?
      > >
      > > Thanks, Bill RV-8  N48WD
      >
      > I've always found Chief to be competitive.  When I decided what I wanted,
      I
      > e-mailed (or called... don't remember) Chief, ACS, and Gulf Coast and told
      > them what my total order would be:  I listed the radio, intercom,
      > transponder, encoder, etc.. Then I told them that would be buying all of
      the
      > stuff from one source in the very near future, and requested their best
      price
      > for the entire mess.  Chief had the lowest price, and came down noticably
      > from their list prices.
      >
      > In addition, I have always found their order desk and tech support to be
      very
      > patient and helpful.
      >
      >
      > Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
      > RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
From: 
Dick Jason <prestige(at)together.net>
Subject: 
Need
      
      
         I am in need of a set (2) main gear legs for an RV6A, also could use
      new style wheel pants for same. Please respond to prestige(at)together.net
      att: Dick Jason
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Peltor Headset Question (not building related)
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
      Thread-Topic: RV-List: Peltor Headset Question (not building related)
      Thread-Index: AcDJLT3cnTUUYrmMR9u83sAQ9JciUgAdGnIA
From: 
"Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
      
      
      Harry,
      
      I use the Peltor 7006 headsets.  Over the years I've owned various
      brands of headsets (david clark 13.4's, peltor 7004's.)  Recently I
      bought a pair of Lightspeed QFR passive headsets, but didn't like them
      because the strain relief on the cord coming out of the earcup would rub
      on my shoulder harnesses, and if you turned your head quickly they'd
      come off.  Light, but not as comfortable as the Peltors.  I bought the
      7006's from Chief Aircraft (ask for the web special price of $180.00)
      about three months ago and love them.  They are the most comfortable and
      quiet headsets I've owned, much more comfortable than the 7004's I have
      due to the larger earcups.  Dave Clarks are like strapping a boat anchor
      to your head compared to the Peltors IMO.  A friend of mine who has
      Lightspeed 25XL ANR headsets flew with me not too long ago and he said
      that they were more comfortable than his Lightspeeds, and came close to
      being as quiet.
      
      Bob Japundza
      RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 113 hours
      
      >Hope no one gets upset at my asking this, but I am considering buying a
      
      >Peltor 7006 headset and would sure appreciate any good, bad or
      indifferent 
      >comments from the list on these units.  Thanks.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
From: 
Dick Jason <prestige(at)together.net>
Subject: 
Props???
      
      
         I am currently rebuilding an RV6A damaged in a hard landing. Has
      anyone experience with 3 blade props vs 2 blades. Performance?????
      Vibration????? There seems to be a considerable amount of controversy
      when using 3 blades on Mooney's ???? Composite vs aluminum. To be used
      on a 0-360 C/S . Also if anyone has a constant speed prop for the above
      and is looking to sell???? Dick Jason
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
RGray67968(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
Subject: 
Re: avionics
      
      
      John Stark was recommended to me by the 'list'. I also bought my GTX327 
      transponder from him for (I think) 5% over cost. I paid $1220. Best price I 
      could find and I called everybody. I 'second the motion' for Stark Avionics.
      Rick Gray RV6QB (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"James Oberst" <joberst(at)columbus.rr.com>
Subject: 
Re: Air/Oil seperator
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
      
      
      I had a short tube welded to one of the oil return tubes of my O360A1D, as
      shown on their website (M-20).  Haven't flown yet, though.
      
      Jim
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <GRENIER(at)AOL.COM>
      Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 8:29 AM
      Subject: RV-List: Air/Oil seperator
      
      
      >
      > Listers, I am thinking of installing an air-oil separator in my -4.  The
      > device I have has three inputs/outputs.  One is used to connect to the
      engine
      > breather port on the engine ( 360 A1A ), there is a small hose fitting for
      > the water drain, and a third that I assume is to return the recovered oil
      to
      > the engine.  My question is where to plumb the oil return line?  Any
      answers?
      > Thanks.
      >
      > Ray Grenier
      >
      > RV-4 the last and endless 90%
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com>
Subject: 
avionics
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
      
      
      A lot of avionics retailers won't quote (over the counter) prices on
      installed only products (garmin, s-tec) because of manufacturer policies.
      However, some experimental friendly retailers will sell you whatever you
      want. I've ordered all my goodies (s-tec 30, gns-430, sl70, gtx-327, nav122,
      bootstrap gyros, etc) from john start avionics. Seems like a great guy and
      gets stuff out on time. Some have had him prewire some harnesses for a
      reasonable fee. He'll usually tell you what the stuff actually costs then
      figure in his standard markup. 5-10 % for listers. I only recommend him
      because of how happy I was with my dealing with him.
      
      
      STARK AVIONICS (JOHN STARK) 706-321-1008 jts7(at)mindspring.com
      http://www.mindspring.com/~jts7/starkav.html DISCOUNT AVIONICS
      
      Steve DiNieri
      N221RV, N5085W
      Niagara Falls, New York
      capsteve(at)adelphia.net
      
      
      I've always found Chief to be competitive.  When I decided what I wanted, I
      e-mailed (or called... don't remember) Chief, ACS, and Gulf Coast and told
      them what my total order would be:  I listed the radio, intercom,
      transponder, encoder, etc.. Then I told them that would be buying all of the
      stuff from one source in the very near future, and requested their best
      price
      for the entire mess.  Chief had the lowest price, and came down noticably
      from their list prices.
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Mike Plecenik" <nanchang(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: RV4-List: Prop Balancer
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
      
      
      Actually, Mark sells a Harmonic Dampener - not a balancer. They're not the
      same and you should still have the prop balanced if you go this route.
      
      
      > --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray 
      >
      > Jim;
      >
      >   Grab a Sport Aviation Magazine and look in the
      > classified ads under Props. Look for Mark Landoll's
      > Harmonic balancers. They really work and add 12 pounds
      > to the nose on -4's which is a plus.
      >
      > Rob Ray
      > N557RR
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com>
Subject: 
rv-8 video
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
      
      
      Episode 1 and 2 are recorded in a couple different formats. I've no place to
      post them for download, but am investigating the gnutella type file sharing
      service. Kind of like napster for any files. I've got 2 way cable so I would
      be able to accommodate a descent amount of traffic. If anyone is familiar
      with this stuff give me a shout so I can post them. Also if any body wants
      to cover the cost of a cd-rom and mail I'd burn you a copy. Sunday episode 3
      airs, 8 pm.
      
      Steven DiNieri
      221RV, 5085W
      Niagara Falls, NY
      capsteve(at)adelphia.net
      
      
      Anyone know what the status of this is?  Is it available for download
      somewhere?
      
      Larry Bowen
      RV-8 fuse Sloooooow Build ...
      Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
      Web: http://BowenAero.com
      
      
      >
      >
      > I've got the first episode encoded( from the ground up) but need to put it
      > where those interested can get at it. Its 21 meg and in wmv
      > (windows media).
      > Any ideas?? Also the big version is about 80 meg...
      >
      >
      > Steven DiNieri
      > Niagara Falls, New York
      > RV-6A,  P28A-160
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
Subject: 
Re: Everybody went to S & F except me!
      
      
      Chuck, Ray, and other variations of -4 drivers, Here is the the input of a -9 
      builder: 
      It was seeing a pristine RV-4 sitting on the ramp that made me fall in love 
      with the RV series in the first place. I too think that a modern pre-punched 
      version would be a good idea. I chose the -9 for a variety of reasons, but 
      the biggest one was path of least resistance, ease of building and quicker to 
      get in the air. 
      But I still think the -4 is the prettiest.
      Just my opinion.
      Kevin in WA 
      -9A finishing 994KS
      
      > Chuck;
      >  
      >  Amen Brother. I guess the -4's sales sealed the deal
      >  so to speak. Quick builds and matched drilling go to
      >  the high sellers. Talking with the Van's folks at SNF,
      >  it's easy to see the direction Van's is going, away
      >  from jigs and drilling. I personally think the 7,8 and
      >  9 and the future 10 are the new breed. 
      >   I agree, the RV4 is still the best looking and flying
      >  of the bunch and I plan on keeping mine a long
      >  time....
      >  
      >  Rob Ray
      >  N557RR 
      >  --- Chuck Rabaut  wrote:
      >  > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Chuck Rabaut"
      >  > 
      >  > 
      >  > Rob,
      >  > 
      >  >     I'm glad you had fun and that's great to hear,
      >  > but you should've
      >  > reminded him that a Quick Build 4 is what's really
      >  > needed (I mean I'm not
      >  > complaining {well not at this moment} but God knows
      >  > the 4 is way cool but
      >  > God also knows you sure suffer trying to figure out
      >  > how to get it together).
      >  > 
      >  >             Chuck
      >  > 
      >  > 
      >  > ----- Original Message -----
      >  > From: rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com>
      >  > To: 
      >  > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:34 PM
      >  > Subject: Re: RV4-List: Fw: RV-List: Everybody went
      >  > to S & F except me!
      >  > 
      >  > 
      >  > 
      >  > >
      >  > > Hi Chuck;
      >  > >
      >  > >   Coming from a No-Cal'r who flew his RV4 to SNF,
      >  > the
      >  > > Dash Seven looked mighty nice, even if all you
      >  > have to
      >  > > do is dump a bucket of clecoes in the box, shake
      >  > it
      >  > > and an airplane pops out....Bottom line: RV's
      >  > ruled,
      >  > > others drooled.
      >  > >  The Cross country of two RV4's from NoCal out to
      >  > > Lakeland was an adventure all it's own. 12 hours
      >  > of
      >  > > flying and five fuel stops. I counted 38 RV's on
      >  > the
      >  > > grass Sunday plus the four in front of Van's tent
      >  > and
      >  > > Bruce Bohannons Tiger and -4. Alot more came and
      >  > went
      >  > > during the week.  I even had a chance to visit
      >  > with
      >  > > the man himself for a casual chat on several
      >  > subjects.
      >  > > I asked him if he was going to discontinue the -4
      >  > now
      >  > > that the -8 was so popular. He responded with a
      >  > > chuckle: If I did that, how would the Harmon
      >  > Rocket
      >  > > guys get parts...
      >  > >
      >  > >
      >  > > --- Chuck Rabaut  wrote:
      >  > > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Chuck Rabaut"
      >  > > > 
      >  > > >
      >  > > > Jim,
      >  > > >
      >  > > >     You are oh so right!!!
      >  > > >
      >  > > >             Chuck
      >  > > >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
Subject: 
Re: need some advice
      
      
      Why dont you just walk over to Vans?
      
      > am building a RV8A...need some advice from another builder on several
      >  things...am located near aurora, ore...am willing to travel to anywhere
      >  in the greater portland-salem aerea....nearing completion, but need some
      >  "expert" advice...thank you..
      >  j. dawson
      >  RV8A
      >  503-678-3343
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com>
Subject: 
Everybody went to S & F except me!
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
      
      
      Just one more comment---my wife won't fly tandom. That could be good---could
      be bad---just depends on whether I want to be alone that day :-)
      
      Greg in Bend,OR
      Wing Spar plate nuts all riveted on
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
      Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM
      Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 8:20 AM
      Subject: Re: Fw: RV4-List: Fw: RV-List: Everybody went to S & F except
      me!
      
      
      Chuck, Ray, and other variations of -4 drivers, Here is the the input of
      a -9
      builder:
      It was seeing a pristine RV-4 sitting on the ramp that made me fall in love
      with the RV series in the first place. I too think that a modern pre-punched
      version would be a good idea. I chose the -9 for a variety of reasons, but
      the biggest one was path of least resistance, ease of building and quicker
      to
      get in the air.
      But I still think the -4 is the prettiest.
      Just my opinion.
      Kevin in WA
      -9A finishing 994KS
      
      > Chuck;
      >
      >  Amen Brother. I guess the -4's sales sealed the deal
      >  so to speak. Quick builds and matched drilling go to
      >  the high sellers. Talking with the Van's folks at SNF,
      >  it's easy to see the direction Van's is going, away
      >  from jigs and drilling. I personally think the 7,8 and
      >  9 and the future 10 are the new breed.
      >   I agree, the RV4 is still the best looking and flying
      >  of the bunch and I plan on keeping mine a long
      >  time....
      >
      >  Rob Ray
      >  N557RR
      >  --- Chuck Rabaut  wrote:
      >  > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Chuck Rabaut"
      >  > 
      >  >
      >  > Rob,
      >  >
      >  >     I'm glad you had fun and that's great to hear,
      >  > but you should've
      >  > reminded him that a Quick Build 4 is what's really
      >  > needed (I mean I'm not
      >  > complaining {well not at this moment} but God knows
      >  > the 4 is way cool but
      >  > God also knows you sure suffer trying to figure out
      >  > how to get it together).
      >  >
      >  >             Chuck
      >  >
      >  >
      >  > ----- Original Message -----
      >  > From: rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com>
      >  > To: 
      >  > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:34 PM
      >  > Subject: Re: RV4-List: Fw: RV-List: Everybody went
      >  > to S & F except me!
      >  >
      >  >
      >  > 
      >  > >
      >  > > Hi Chuck;
      >  > >
      >  > >   Coming from a No-Cal'r who flew his RV4 to SNF,
      >  > the
      >  > > Dash Seven looked mighty nice, even if all you
      >  > have to
      >  > > do is dump a bucket of clecoes in the box, shake
      >  > it
      >  > > and an airplane pops out....Bottom line: RV's
      >  > ruled,
      >  > > others drooled.
      >  > >  The Cross country of two RV4's from NoCal out to
      >  > > Lakeland was an adventure all it's own. 12 hours
      >  > of
      >  > > flying and five fuel stops. I counted 38 RV's on
      >  > the
      >  > > grass Sunday plus the four in front of Van's tent
      >  > and
      >  > > Bruce Bohannons Tiger and -4. Alot more came and
      >  > went
      >  > > during the week.  I even had a chance to visit
      >  > with
      >  > > the man himself for a casual chat on several
      >  > subjects.
      >  > > I asked him if he was going to discontinue the -4
      >  > now
      >  > > that the -8 was so popular. He responded with a
      >  > > chuckle: If I did that, how would the Harmon
      >  > Rocket
      >  > > guys get parts...
      >  > >
      >  > >
      >  > > --- Chuck Rabaut  wrote:
      >  > > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Chuck Rabaut"
      >  > > > 
      >  > > >
      >  > > > Jim,
      >  > > >
      >  > > >     You are oh so right!!!
      >  > > >
      >  > > >             Chuck
      >  > > >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com>
Subject: 
avionics
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
      
      
      Rick, the 327 will display the altitude that the encoder is transmitting so
      it can interface with digital output from a gns-gps or from serial data
      direct from an encoder. Ii don't know that the 320 does this...
      
      
      Steve
      
      
      In a message dated 4/20/01 8:48:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
      rickjory(at)email.msn.com writes:
      
      I agree with Rick based on recent shopping.
      However, I was told by the vendors and Garmin at SNF that they can not sell
      the GTX 327 transponder for me to install myself. Can somebody confirm that
      this is not true? They would sell me the GTX 320. Was also told by Garmin
      that the inner workings of the 327 and 320 are now the same. Only the front
      panel is different.
      Dale Ensing
      getting close to buying avionics
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"John Kitz" <jkitz(at)greenapple.com>
Subject: 
Re: avionics
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
      
      
      Give Southeast Aerospace a try.  I bought a KT-76A transponder from them
      including the install kit, rack, and manual and paid $1050.  That was on
      9/17/99.
      John Kitz
      N721JK
      Ohio
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <RGray67968(at)AOL.COM>
      Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 10:14 AM
      Subject: Re: RV-List: avionics
      
      
      >
      > John Stark was recommended to me by the 'list'. I also bought my GTX327
      > transponder from him for (I think) 5% over cost. I paid $1220. Best price
      I
      > could find and I called everybody. I 'second the motion' for Stark
      Avionics.
      > Rick Gray RV6QB (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
rpflanze(at)iquest.net
Date: 
Apr 20, 2001
Subject: 
Re: METO and CG etc

---

April 13, 2001 - April 20, 2001

RV-Archive.digest.vol-ko

---