RV-Archive.digest.vol-kx

June 08, 2001 - June 14, 2001



      a window in the F-814A-L for the control arm of the servo to pass through...
      
      One of the benefits of this installation is that it will allow the Navaid
      servo arm to work in a linear relationship with the arm on the control tube.
      If you use the saddle provided with the Navaid you have to mount it in such
      a way that does not allow this linear relationship, and does not allow full
      travel of your control column...
      
      More information and installation pictures of this installation on an -8 can
      be seen here:
      http://vondane.com/rv8a/ideas/index.htm#navaid
      
      If you have questions about my idea for mounting it in your -8A, feel free
      to contact me anytime...
      
      -Bill VonDane
      Colorado Springs, CO
      RV-8A - N8VD
      http://vondane.com/rv8a/
      bill(at)vondane.com
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
From: Rick Jory [mailto:rickjory(at)msn.com]
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 6:59 AM
Subject: [rv8list] Navaid Installation
Any suggestions re: how/where to mount the Navaid servo on an 8A? Thanks in advance. Rick Jory ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: Buckled Firewall
Date: Jun 08, 2001
Hi Guys (& Gals), Well just as I said I would, I replaced the buckled firewall on one of my RV-4's. Okay "We" (my friend Tom & I) replaced the firewall. It wasn't that hard, set her up on wing jacks, just took off the cowling, un-bolted the engine mount from the fuselage, disconnected everything, drilled out all the rivets, pulled off the buckled stainless (lower section only, even though I bought the upper "just in case"), put on the new stainless, riveted it on, trimmed it to fit, drilled all the connection holes, put the engine mount etc... back on, reconnected everything, and voila....... Okay there were a few minor hang ups (like the battery went dead for no apparent reason causing us to think we might have re-wired something wrong; $135.oo for a new light weight PC680 solved that problem), but nothing we could not work through. Thank you to everyone that responded with comments and suggestions, I considered them all before deciding how to proceed. For anyone else with a similar problem, I recommend replacing the whole section verses patching or even doubling the material, which was among the many replies/suggestions I received from my initial post. The costs for both the upper & lower firewall sections were about $30.oo each (plus about $25.oo s&h, but that's a whole nother thread) from Van's and they come pre-bent. The original cause was never really determined, but believed to be caused by a VERY hard landing prior to my acquisition of the aircraft (built one, bought one). I will monitor the firewall and let the list know if anything develops, thanks again for everyone's help. Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Insulation : RV noise levels
Date: Jun 08, 2001
I have a light, simple RV-4 and have always thought that the interior of my plane was loud, so loud that I think it is the loudest general aviation airplane I've ever riden in. In the last 4 months I've had the pleasure of flying 2 other RVs that were considerably quieter. My plane has no insulation and a vetterman 4 stack exhaust (no mufflers). In February I flew with Brigadeer General Denis Walsh (USAF RET.)in his very nice RV-6A. We flew out of front range apt in Colorado. His '6 was so much quieter than my airplane it was incredible. He did have a full interior in his airplane and I am sure that made a difference. Last month I flew an RV-4 back to CT from Misssissippi with a friend of mine. This plane was as simple as mine, with minimal carpet and no interior panels. It was however a good deal quieter inside. This airplane had a 4 into 2 crossover exhaust of unknown origin. I fly with Lightspeed ANR headsets, but even with them, the increased comfort of the quieter planes is great. I'd like to quiet mine down. I was thinking that some insulating matereal in targeted areas would help. Firewall and the floor above the exhaust outlets. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. My plane currently weighs less than 950lbs and I'd like to keep it that way. Best regards, Don Mei N92CT RV-4 3B9 Chester, CT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "d. wayne stiles" <dwstiles(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Insulation
Date: Jun 08, 2001
FWIW For a number of years I have used a very efficient and very lightweight insulation product in various non-aviation settings. (it kept about 10 pounds of frozen meat rock-solid for 3 days in the trunk of a car on a trip to Florida) I do not remember the brand name but it is commonly available at local building supply stores. It is basically like airfilled bubble wrap, however it is made of a durable aluminum faced plastic. I think that a layer of it hung with double face tape would really cut heat/cold transfer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 08, 2001
Subject: Re: RV-4 vs. RV-8 cockpit dimensions
In a message dated 6/7/01 8:50:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, billshook(at)earthlink.net writes: > OK, but without that I0-540 up front..what good would that extra room do > you? In a word....CG > > Bill > -4 wings > > > Extra room is always good, granted you will be slower than a rocket but at today's fuel prices that is not that bad. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 08, 2001
Subject: Re: RV-4 Cockpit Ventilation
In a message dated 6/7/01 9:43:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fo320(at)sympatico.ca writes: > > > Hello Everyone > I'm presently replacing the canopy on my -4 and while at it I > thought I could improved the cockpit ventilation a little bit because it > gets pretty hot on hot summer days. > So for you guys flying RV-4s,what are the best locations to > install the vents and what are the best models available and where can I get > them. > > Thanks in advance > > Bruno Dionne > Flying RV-4 C-GDBH > fo320(at)sympatico.ca > > 2ea 2" Wemac's installed on the F402 bulkhead works great for me Tim Barnes N39TB Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com>
Subject: Engine Sag
Date: Jun 08, 2001
I asked Vans who makes the mounts they sell. Here's their response. MANUFACTURE IS VIBRATION ISOLATION PRODUCTS AND I BUY THEM THROUGH DESSER TIRE. Forwarded by: "Support" Forwarded to: johnc Send reply to: From: "Smith Brothers" <smithbros(at)bendcable.com> Subject: engine vibration mounts Can you tell me who the manufacturer is on the mounts you sell? Thanks, Greg Tanner -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy Lervold Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 11:18 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Sag I followed the Van's diagram exactly... triple-checked. Also, they are not Lord mounts, but rather the Barry's that Van's sells. Randy Lervold ----- Original Message ----- From: "Snyder, Paul J (Grandview)" <Paul_Snyder(at)lord.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 10:23 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Sag > > Are your mounts oriented properly? For the O-320 and O-360 Lycoming engines > the shimmed mount (with the rib in the center) is in the aft position on the > top mounts and in the forward position on the bottom mounts. > > Paul Snyder > Lord Corporation > > -----Original Message----- > From: Randy Lervold [mailto:randy@rv-8.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 12:25 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Sag > > > > With about 1 hour total time on my engine only by > > running on the ground, it seems my engine sag is very > > apparent. It appears to have dropped 1/4". I haven't > > even flown yet. Any builders notice this just from > > ground running? Should I shim now, or fly then shim? > > > > Paul Besing > > RV-6A 197AB Arizona > > http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing > > Taxi Testing > > > With 33 hours I have no perceptible sag, but have only pulled 3 Gs so far. I > mounted my cowling so as to allow for 3/16" sag based on others experiences, > so I hope it DOES sag a bit because my prop/spinner sits a bit high right > now. > > Randy Lervold > www.rv-8.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Insulation
Date: Jun 08, 2001
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Insulation Thread-Index: AcDwL9rsjPoFhMf9RnyxE1ogq+0PugAA4GMA
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
Heres my philosophy on weight: put all the insulation in your heart desires, then weigh it. Weigh yourself afterwards. Lose some of that gut you put on building to offset the weight of the insulation and voila! You have a quieter airplane with no weight penalty. Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 148 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2001
From: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Insulation : RV noise levels
Do you have turndowns on your exhaust pipes? I have the Vetterman 4 pipe system on my -4. The pipes were pointing straight back and it made a lot of noise in the cockpit. Larry Vetterman made me a set of four turndowns and it made a BIG difference in the interior noise. It's still a noisy plane, but it is also a 950# plane with the seats being the only interior and no insulation. I have been wanting to try something called DynaMat on strategic areas of the floor but have not gotten 'round to it yet. It is a heavy material so should be used sparingly. Mike > >I have a light, simple RV-4 and have always thought that the interior of my >plane was loud, so loud that I think it is the loudest general aviation >airplane I've ever riden in. In the last 4 months I've had the pleasure of >flying 2 other RVs that were considerably quieter. My plane has no >insulation and a vetterman 4 stack exhaust (no mufflers). > >In February I flew with Brigadeer General Denis Walsh (USAF RET.)in his very >nice RV-6A. We flew out of front range apt in Colorado. His '6 was so much >quieter than my airplane it was incredible. He did have a full interior in >his airplane and I am sure that made a difference. > >Last month I flew an RV-4 back to CT from Misssissippi with a friend of >mine. This plane was as simple as mine, with minimal carpet and no interior >panels. It was however a good deal quieter inside. This airplane had a 4 >into 2 crossover exhaust of unknown origin. > >I fly with Lightspeed ANR headsets, but even with them, the increased >comfort of the quieter planes is great. I'd like to quiet mine down. > >I was thinking that some insulating matereal in targeted areas would help. >Firewall and the floor above the exhaust outlets. Any thoughts are greatly >appreciated. My plane currently weighs less than 950lbs and I'd like to >keep it that way. > >Best regards, > >Don Mei >N92CT RV-4 >3B9 Chester, CT > > Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Aurora, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com>
Subject: Engine Sag
Date: Jun 08, 2001
Those are what I got when I ordered and paid for "Barry" mounts. I'm not familiar with the quality of the Vibration Isolation Products mounts but time will tell. If you want Barry mounts, order from Chief Aircraft. The cost was close to Van's. Ed Cole RV6A N2169D Flying N648RV Finishing... > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Tanner [SMTP:gtanner(at)bendcable.com] > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 8:25 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Sag > > > I asked Vans who makes the mounts they sell. Here's their response. > > MANUFACTURE IS VIBRATION ISOLATION PRODUCTS AND I > BUY THEM THROUGH DESSER TIRE. > > Forwarded by: "Support" > Forwarded to: johnc > Send reply to: > From: "Smith Brothers" <smithbros(at)bendcable.com> > To: "Scott Risan" > Subject: engine vibration mounts > > Can you tell me who the manufacturer is on the mounts you sell? > Thanks, > > Greg Tanner > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy Lervold > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 11:18 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Sag > > > > I followed the Van's diagram exactly... triple-checked. Also, they are not > Lord mounts, but rather the Barry's that Van's sells. > > Randy Lervold > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Snyder, Paul J (Grandview)" <Paul_Snyder(at)lord.com> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 10:23 AM > Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Sag > > > > > > > Are your mounts oriented properly? For the O-320 and O-360 Lycoming > engines > > the shimmed mount (with the rib in the center) is in the aft position on > the > > top mounts and in the forward position on the bottom mounts. > > > > Paul Snyder > > Lord Corporation > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Randy Lervold [mailto:randy@rv-8.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 12:25 PM > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Sag > > > > > > > > > With about 1 hour total time on my engine only by > > > running on the ground, it seems my engine sag is very > > > apparent. It appears to have dropped 1/4". I haven't > > > even flown yet. Any builders notice this just from > > > ground running? Should I shim now, or fly then shim? > > > > > > Paul Besing > > > RV-6A 197AB Arizona > > > http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing > > > Taxi Testing > > > > > > With 33 hours I have no perceptible sag, but have only pulled 3 Gs so > far. > I > > mounted my cowling so as to allow for 3/16" sag based on others > experiences, > > so I hope it DOES sag a bit because my prop/spinner sits a bit high > right > > now. > > > > Randy Lervold > > www.rv-8.com > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rpflanze(at)iquest.net
Date: Jun 08, 2001
Subject: Re: Insulation
Make sure you do at least a simple burn test to check for flamability and fumes, just in case the unthinkable occurs. Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 150 hours > >FWIW For a number of years I have used a very efficient and very >lightweight insulation product in various non-aviation settings. (it kept >about 10 pounds of frozen meat rock-solid for 3 days in the trunk of a car >on a trip to Florida) I do not remember the brand name but it is commonly >available at local building supply stores. It is basically like airfilled >bubble wrap, however it is made of a durable aluminum faced plastic. I think >that a layer of it hung with double face tape would really cut heat/cold >transfer. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2001
From: Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Nuts and bolts with smaller heads
I've got a couple places where I can't get nuts/bolts to fit due to interference with the heads. I've got a solution for the nuts- MS21042 nuts (in the ACS catalog) have smaller heads and the same strength as a regular AN365 locknut. That takes care of one problem. But another problem still exists- the bolt that connects the elevators together through the central bearing is too close to the tube part of the control horn, and the bolt heads hits the weld fillet. So I need some sort of reduced head bolt. Does such a thing exist? One idea would be an allen head bold but I can't seem to find them in lengths- all the ones I've found were threaded all the way up the shaft. If anyone has a source for such a bolt (or other reduced head bolt) I'd be mighty interested. Matthew 8A fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rpflanze(at)iquest.net
Date: Jun 08, 2001
Subject: Re: Spray Lat
When using Spraylat, put on multiple, multiple coats and use as much as you can. It is a bear to get off if put on too thin. You can also just brush it on. Also, it can become difficult to remove if left on for multiple years. It is standard practice for EZ builders to use this product. Some had their canopy protected for 4-6 years and then had difficulty getting it off. It comes off in little pieces and just drives you crazy getting it off. I think the rubber properties kind of wear off over time or when exposed to the sun, etc. Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 (Formerly a Long-EZ builder/owner) >For the Archives: > >Aircraft Spruce sells a great protective coating for your canopy called >Spray Lat. One quart will cover an RV-6 canopy with two heavy coats inside >and out (two coats each). It can be sprayed from a normal HVLP spray gun >after reducing it with water in a 1 to 1 ratio. After drying it will give a >transparent film similar to the plastic coating that comes on the canopy, >however since it is applied in a liquid form chips and dirt will not be >able to get under the edge. When you are done it peels off like plastic. >The coating is very durable once dry and since it is transparent it is very >easy to see where the canopy contacts the frame so you can see where to >drill. Cost is about $15. > >Eric Henson > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New Pro-Seal over old Pro-Seal?
From: pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com
Date: Jun 08, 2001
17, 2001) at 06/08/2001 01:41:38 PM I'm about to apply new Pro-Seal over old Pro-Seal to fix a leak in one of my tanks. According to PRC DeSoto (the manufacturer of Pro-Seal), I must apply an adhesion promoter over the old Pro-Seal in order to get good adhesion. I would happily pay the $50 for a pint of promoter, but I can't get it shipped until next week and I want to seal my tank this weekend. My question is: Have any Listers successfully applied new Pro-Seal over old? Thanks in advance for the help. Dean Pichon One step forward, two steps back **** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible.**** ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: Nuts and bolts with smaller heads
Date: Jun 08, 2001
Matthew, If it's just the weld fillet that's interfering, then use a longer bolt and space the head and/or nut away from the weld with washers. Grind or file the washer(s) to clear the fillet. You could also grind off one side of the bolt head to clear as long as you can turn the nut. The full thread bolt may be OK since the shear loads are small and the bolt just captures the bearing and won't rotate at all. In the worst case, weld the holes closed, readjust all the rod ends to move the hinge line and redrill the holes. Regards, Greg Young RV-6 N6GY Houston (DWH) FWF > > > I've got a couple places where I can't get nuts/bolts to fit due to > interference with the heads. I've got a solution for the > nuts- MS21042 nuts > (in the ACS catalog) have smaller heads and the same strength > as a regular > AN365 locknut. That takes care of one problem. But another > problem still > exists- the bolt that connects the elevators together through > the central > bearing is too close to the tube part of the control horn, > and the bolt > heads hits the weld fillet. So I need some sort of reduced > head bolt. Does > such a thing exist? One idea would be an allen head bold but > I can't seem > to find them in lengths- all the ones I've found were > threaded all the way > up the shaft. If anyone has a source for such a bolt (or > other reduced head > bolt) I'd be mighty interested. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2001
From: glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: New Pro-Seal over old Pro-Seal?
If your tank is not sealed with the baffle yet do not top coat your old proseal. Use a witches broom to remove the suspect area and wipe clean with some solvent. Then reapply proseal to the bare aluminum in that area. If you are unsure of your tanks sealing properly put the tank on the jig without the baffle on and fill with water to the gas cap. If no leaks you are fine. Again proseal adds weight fast and if you are just placing proseal over the cured proseal "just to be sure" it is overkill. Glenn Williams archive this one --- pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com wrote: > pichon.dean(at)adlittle.com > > I'm about to apply new Pro-Seal over old Pro-Seal to > fix a leak in one of > my tanks. According to PRC DeSoto (the manufacturer > of Pro-Seal), I must > apply an adhesion promoter over the old Pro-Seal in > order to get good > adhesion. I would happily pay the $50 for a pint of > promoter, but I can't > get it shipped until next week and I want to seal my > tank this weekend. My > question is: > > Have any Listers successfully applied new Pro-Seal > over old? > > Thanks in advance for the help. > > Dean Pichon > One step forward, two steps back > **** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., > and/or one of > Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and > may contain > confidential business information. It is intended > for the addressee > only and may not be copied without our permission. > If you are not > the intended recipient please contact the sender as > soon as possible.**** > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > ==== Glenn Williams 8A A&P N81GW ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2001
From: Bobby Hester <bhester(at)apex.net>
Subject: It's here, It's here!!!
Tail kit just arrived today :-) One week exactly from date ordered! Now I've got to order those tools. -- Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/ And see my Rans S12xl experimental aircraft - Starting RV7A empannage :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2001
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Nuts and bolts with smaller heads
How about grinding a couple of washers partially flat on one side to clear the weld fillet? That has worked for me in a couple of similar spots. Jeff Point -6 wings, tanks finally done! Milwaukee WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2001
From: Phil N <pnewlon(at)toosan.com>
Subject: any RV-8 builder in (central) Ohio?
At the risk of causing great pain and gnashing of teeth in my household... :-) I was wondering if there are any RV-8 builders in (central) Ohio that would like to show off their project to me? Thanks! Phil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Textor" <pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Boone RV Fly-In Reminder
Date: Jun 08, 2001
The RV fly-in is set for Saturday, June 9th, Boone, IA. Coffee and Doughnuts in the AM and lunch at noon with donations accepted. Boone airport number is 515-432-1018. Don't Miss It!! Jack RV8, tanks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 08, 2001
Subject: Re: any RV-8 builder in (central) Ohio?
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2001
From: KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: RV-4 Cockpit Ventilation
>I'm presently replacing the canopy on my -4 and thought I could improved >the cockpit ventilation a little bit. So for you guys flying RV-4s, what >are the best locations to install the vents and what are the best models >available and where can I get >them. Bummer on the canopy replacement Front seat: I have two one inch eyeball vents in the bottom corners of the panel. They pull air off the v e r y top center of the back engine baffling. Two inch hole, into a splitter behind the firewall with a shutoff gate as it goes through the firewall. So, two ways to shut off the air: eyeball vent and shut-off gate. Blows me cool, even on the hottest days. Slightly above ambient air temperature as it comes off the engine compartment, but not much; I have never measured it. Been in 105 degree heat, hot sun a-shining without discomfort. Shut off gate to keep any fire/smoke where it belongs. Back seat: NACA vent off the right wing ala -8 setup, to a 2 inch eyeball vent in the back seat. Will blow your wig off. Ambient temperature air. Can also be directed to blow on the pilot when my PIB is not back there. Do NOT put a screen on the intake; not necessary and it does cut down on airflow. Have a 2 inch screened hole in the upper baggage bulkhead to allow air to pass through to the back. Did it help? Not sure; it vented pretty well anyway. Never had canopy-lifting-off-the-fuselage problems from the interior pressure. Intake vents on the -4 canopy are a source of disappointment when it comes to getting air in the cockpit. There isn't much of a high pressure area there and is a great way to get lots of water in the airplane when it rains. Got all my eyeball vents early on at OSH, in the flymart. The splitter and shutoff gate I made myself and George the Great Welder welded them together for me. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2001
From: ENewton57(at)aol.com
Subject: Canopy Cracks Question
It has been about three months now since I finished my canopy (slider) on my 6A. I was very careful throughout and managed to get it all installed with no cracks. I ended up drilling all holes 1/16" over and used #6 screws for everything (no rivets). I carefully snugged the screws but not too tight. I used tinnerman washers under every screw and countersunk the holes oversized to allow for some movement. Well today, I was prepping to do the fiberglass work around the rollbar and windshield and low and behold I see some very tiny spider cracks eminating from one of the screw holes in the canopy. I pulled each screw out one at a time and on three of the holes (all near each other)I have a sort of small (shattered) looking cracks each being about 1/32" to 1/16" long eminating in all directions from the screw holes. There are way too many small cracks to do any stop drilling (each holes has a shattered look to it). The longest is the one I spotted and its about 3/16" long. The rest are 1/32" to 1/16". Any ideas and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. BTW I have loosened all of the screws considerably on the canopy. I checked the archives and found one question like this but no answers. I probably did this when I had the canopy off and it was sitting on the floor front side down. I bumped it and didn't know it or something (who knows). Thanks guys, Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS RV-6A - N57ME (reserved) (all cracked up) www.ericsrv6a.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Emrath" <Emrath(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: FW: [rv8list] Navaid Installation
Date: Jun 08, 2001
What about method discussed by Sam Buchannan of mounting in the wing on the outboard rib and running a "push tube" to the bell crank? I think there is a discussion on his www site. Marty in Brentwood TN. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill VonDane" <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 8:41 AM Subject: RV-List: FW: [rv8list] Navaid Installation > > Hey Rick... > > I have thought about this a lot and wish I could afford one so I could try > it out... If anyone wants to buy me one so I can come up with a quick and > easy install kit, let me know... 8-) > > I friend of mine did a great job of mounting one in his -8, and I think it > could be adapted to the -8A as well... His is mounted on the floor forward > of the spar on the right side and connects directly to the WD-807 control > column where the rod end bearing is bolted on... > > You can't mount it there in the -8A due to the landing gear weldments, but I > believe you could mount it on the left side of the fuse just aft of the > F-805B and connect to the control column in the same way at the rear. You > would have to make a mount for the serve that would span the floor > connecting to the F-814 & F-815 to add strength (you don't want the thing > going through the floor in a high G maneuver), and you would have to cut out > a window in the F-814A-L for the control arm of the servo to pass through... > > One of the benefits of this installation is that it will allow the Navaid > servo arm to work in a linear relationship with the arm on the control tube. > If you use the saddle provided with the Navaid you have to mount it in such > a way that does not allow this linear relationship, and does not allow full > travel of your control column... > > More information and installation pictures of this installation on an -8 can > be seen here: > http://vondane.com/rv8a/ideas/index.htm#navaid > > If you have questions about my idea for mounting it in your -8A, feel free > to contact me anytime... > > -Bill VonDane > Colorado Springs, CO > RV-8A - N8VD > http://vondane.com/rv8a/ > bill(at)vondane.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Jory [mailto:rickjory(at)msn.com] > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 6:59 AM > To: rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com > Subject: [rv8list] Navaid Installation > > > Any suggestions re: how/where to mount the Navaid servo on an 8A? Thanks in > advance. > Rick Jory > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV8 rattling noise from rear
Date: Jun 08, 2001
Listers, The other day whilst out tumbling amongst the sun-split clouds where na'er a lark nor even eagle flew, I noted a strange rattling kind of noise coming from the rear of the airplane somewhere. (Yes, we do have rattlesnakes in New Mexico...but my airplane is OFF LIMITS!) I've noted this a few times in the past and never found anything amiss. It only happens when I have a passenger aboard. So, I went up to see if I could duplicate the noise while solo. I reached back and felt for something that might be fluttering or buzzing and AHA!!! It's the eyeball vent! I'm hearing prop and exhaust noise coming right into that underwing NACA inlet when the vent is open! Once the vent is closed, the noise is gone. It's also more noticeable when the plane is pitched up to a higher angle of attack. Just thought I'd share this in case some of you -8 drivers are experiencing the same thing. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD 210 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: 10.8 hr report
Date: Jun 08, 2001
Another one, good comments at bottom... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 8:14 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: 10.8 hr report > > > > > > > >Guys, (long narrative coming) > > > > Randy, > > Thank you for the great reports. > > > > > >The digital airspeed and altitude presentation of the MicroEncoder took some > >getting used to, mostly the altitude for some reason. But I think I'm over > >the hump now and they seem fine. I'm also getting more of a handle on > >alitutde control which I had a problem with at first. For some reason I was > >fairly on top of the airspeed right away, but altitude control took awhile. > >Don't get me wrong, I have light years to go in learning to fly this plane, > >but I'm not quite as all over the sky as I was. > > I have an old fashioned analog altimeter that works poorly. This is a > replacement for my first altimeter, of a different brand, that also > worked poorly. Because of these problems I have to use my Microencoder > readout for the altimeter most of the time. I detest it, and I have > hundreds of hours of practice. Some people seem to be able to do it but > I will never be able to use a digital readout near as easily as a hand. > Every time you glance at the display you must make a mental calculation. > Is that number greater than or less than the desired number. Once you > get the direction of error you must make a mental subtraction and then > decide how to correct. With the analog altimeter you just glance at the > hand, no calculations necessary. > > I know many people, and the Van's factory, use all digital readouts, and > don't complain much. Me, I complain a lot. > > > > >Now if I could just learn how to land it! I've made two good landings: #1 > >and #10. The other 20 or so have all been variations on the bouncer theme. > >I've done three go-rounds. Not because I necessarily needed to, just to make > >sure I knew how, and more importantly, that I *would*. I'm trying to make > >three pointers as I learned in my transition training, and I'm setting the > >airplane down in more or less the right attitude, I just can't seem to get > >it smooth. This may sound like an excuse, but the only two greasers I've had > >were both on wind-less days, the rest have all had our typical spring > >swirling winds. Still, I don't think winds are the sole reason, I just don't > >have this completely figured out yet. I did six T&Gs in a row tonight with > >no one around but didn't seem to improve. I think I need to find a long > >runway and just practice flying it a foot above the runway. > > I think some of the learning here may be to learn to accept a somewhat > lower standard. In my opinion the RV taildraggers are fairly challenging > to grease on every time. They are not hard to land, just hard to land > real real smooth every time. Myself, I have streaks of many greasers in > a row, than streaks where it seems like I'm not doing anything really > wrong but the landings are not that satisfying, like maybe the tailwheel > will bounce a few times after a seemingly good landing. About one > landing out of thirty is just bad. I particularly remember one when > giving a demo ride to Steve Judd. Trying to impress, only to make a > stinker. Oh well! > > Mostly, I try to just relax about it, and completely ignore what my rider > says. I don't judge my piloting ability by the smoothness of the landing > and if they do, well, that's their opinion, and I don't agree. > > Larry Pardue > Carlsbad, NM > > RV-6 N441LP Flying > http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2001
From: Miller Robert <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 4 seats
Anyone know any details re: rumored 4-seat RV? Also ... have seen "RV-10" mentioned as in development in a couple of posts. What is this? Thanks. Robert ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2001
From: "Lucite etc" <letc(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: RV4-List: Buckled Firewall
tom did all the work, while chuck was taking a brake after the next :-) hey big guy. just kidding, i see you saturday around 2,, tom Chuck Rabaut wrote: > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Chuck Rabaut" > > Hi Guys (& Gals), > > Well just as I said I would, I replaced the buckled firewall on one of > my RV-4's. Okay "We" (my friend Tom & I) replaced the firewall. It wasn't > that hard, set her up on wing jacks, just took off the cowling, un-bolted > the engine mount from the fuselage, disconnected everything, drilled out all > the rivets, pulled off the buckled stainless (lower section only, even > though I bought the upper "just in case"), put on the new stainless, riveted > it on, trimmed it to fit, drilled all the connection holes, put the engine > mount etc... back on, reconnected everything, and voila....... Okay there > were a few minor hang ups (like the battery went dead for no apparent reason > causing us to think we might have re-wired something wrong; $135.oo for a > new light weight PC680 solved that problem), but nothing we could not work > through. > > Thank you to everyone that responded with comments and suggestions, I > considered them all before deciding how to proceed. For anyone else with a > similar problem, I recommend replacing the whole section verses patching or > even doubling the material, which was among the many replies/suggestions I > received from my initial post. The costs for both the upper & lower > firewall sections were about $30.oo each (plus about $25.oo s&h, but that's > a whole nother thread) from Van's and they come pre-bent. The original > cause was never really determined, but believed to be caused by a VERY hard > landing prior to my acquisition of the aircraft (built one, bought one). I > will monitor the firewall and let the list know if anything develops, thanks > again for everyone's help. > > Chuck > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Samonsky" <jss165(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Western PA Builders
Date: Jun 08, 2001
RVer's, As my Tampa budies know, I'll be moving to NW PA in the next week or so. I'm wondering if there will be anyone in the are looking for a hand or atleast a project or to i can look at. I'm moving to titusville but anywher in the western half of the state is fair game. RVless James Samonsky ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2001
From: old ogre <jollyd(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy Cracks Question
some builders I have heard of have used rtv thru out the canopy process...I for one will use it tonhelp strengthen my canopy... jolly in aurora, or. RV8A finishing, finishing, fin...... ENewton57(at)aol.com wrote: > > It has been about three months now since I finished my canopy (slider) on my 6A. I was very careful throughout and managed to get it all installed with no cracks. I ended up drilling all holes 1/16" over and used #6 screws for everything (no rivets). I carefully snugged the screws but not too tight. I used tinnerman washers under every screw and countersunk the holes oversized to allow for some movement. > Well today, I was prepping to do the fiberglass work around the rollbar and windshield and low and behold I see some very tiny spider cracks eminating from one of the screw holes in the canopy. I pulled each screw out one at a time and on three of the holes (all near each other)I have a sort of small (shattered) looking cracks each being about 1/32" to 1/16" long eminating in all directions from the screw holes. There are way too many small cracks to do any stop drilling (each holes has a shattered look to it). The longest is the one I spotted and its about 3/16" long. The rest are 1/32" to 1/16". > Any ideas and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. BTW I have loosened all of the screws considerably on the canopy. I checked the archives and found one question like this but no answers. > > I probably did this when I had the canopy off and it was sitting on the floor front side down. I bumped it and didn't know it or something (who knows). > > Thanks guys, > > Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS > RV-6A - N57ME (reserved) (all cracked up) > www.ericsrv6a.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Navaid Install on 8A
Date: Jun 08, 2001
Rick, I mounted mine just aft of the right footwell. It is riveted to a bracket which is riveted to the floor. I also put two stiffeners in the floor there. I can't believe that I don't have any pictures on my computer of the installation, but I'll try to remember to take a few tomorrow when I go to the airport, and I'll just add them to a page on my website. I'll send a note to the list when the pics are posted. Jerry Carter Memphis, TN My RV-8A website: http://rv8asite.homestead.com/mainpage.html Weighing tomorrow, inspection soon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 5:58 AM Subject: RV-List: Navaid Install on 8A > > Any suggestions on installation of the Navaid servo on an 8A? Pictures > also help. > rickjory(at)msn.com > > Rick Jory, Highlands Ranch, CO RV8A > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Navaid Install on 8A
Date: Jun 08, 2001
Sorry, it is SCREWED to the bracket which is riveted to the floor. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 8:39 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Navaid Install on 8A > > Rick, > > I mounted mine just aft of the right footwell. It is riveted to a bracket > which is riveted to the floor. I also put two stiffeners in the floor > there. I can't believe that I don't have any pictures on my computer of the > installation, but I'll try to remember to take a few tomorrow when I go to > the airport, and I'll just add them to a page on my website. I'll send a > note to the list when the pics are posted. > > Jerry Carter > Memphis, TN > > My RV-8A website: > http://rv8asite.homestead.com/mainpage.html > > Weighing tomorrow, inspection soon. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> > To: "RV-list" > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 5:58 AM > Subject: RV-List: Navaid Install on 8A > > > > > > Any suggestions on installation of the Navaid servo on an 8A? Pictures > > also help. > > rickjory(at)msn.com > > > > Rick Jory, Highlands Ranch, CO RV8A > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com>
Subject: Western PA Builders
Date: Jun 09, 2001
Speaking for the Tampa RV Builders' Group, anybody near Titusville, PA would be lucky to have James come by to give a hand now and then with their RV. I can testify that he is better with a bucking bar than he is at grammer and spelling!! Good luck to you James! We will miss you! jim Tampa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Samonsky Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 8:24 PM Subject: RV-List: Western PA Builders RVer's, As my Tampa budies know, I'll be moving to NW PA in the next week or so. I'm wondering if there will be anyone in the are looking for a hand or atleast a project or to i can look at. I'm moving to titusville but anywher in the western half of the state is fair game. RVless James Samonsky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: Jun 08, 2001
Subject: Re: Canopy Cracks Question
I would like to know if drilling out the holes larger would have helped.Eric,if you find the answer please let us know. Thanks. Bob Murphy Poplar Grove ILL. (C77) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: turbulence
Date: Jun 08, 2001
> I am interested to know people's opinions on how RV's > "ride" in turbulence. I am dreaming of building a 7, [snip!] My RV-6 is GREAT in turbulence! It goes UP, it goes DOWN, it goes SIDE to SIDE -- what a great ride! :-) :-) :-) Seriously though, my RV in turbulence is somewhat "choppy" and also has the "tail wag" that's been discussed before (PLEASE check the archives before asking for more about this!) I've found it is quite stable however in that any turbulence-induced wagging dampens very quickly. A little pressure on the pedals tends to dampen it as well. I'm told the larger tail in the -7 (and -8, and -9, and newer -6s) eliminates this tail wag. My wife used to get queasy flying in a 172 in turbulence because they tend to wallow around, but she handles the RV much better, as its behavior is much more choppy and crisp; we just strap our belts down and hang on to the canopy brace and enjoy the ride. It's fun to be bouncing around and hear a little "Wheee!" from the right seat instead of the groans I used to hear in the 172. I have found my RV-6 to be a reasonable IFR platform. You can get to an unusual attitude more quickly if you're not attentive, but the flip side of that is that you can get back to your heading/altitude/attitude MUCH more quickly than you can in the average spam can. Like anything, it takes practice but it's quite doable. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs) Portland, OR www.vanshomewing.org ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DWENSING(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 09, 2001
Subject: Re: Canopy Cracks Question
In a message dated 6/8/01 9:36:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jollyd(at)teleport.com writes: << some builders I have heard of have used rtv thru out the canopy process.. >> Are you referring to silicone rubber RTV? How is it used to prevent cracks in the canopy? Dale Ensing 6A finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 09, 2001
Subject: Re: Western PA Builders
Dear Listers: I concur with Jim Norman's comments on the ability of Mr. James Samonski. When James 1st moved to Tampa, He saw my post to the list, and quickly replied, and ask to see my project. Since that 1st visit, he became one of my best friends. I was just starting the fuselage, and he came buy my shop, every Saturday, and Sunday for 8 hours a day to help with any task I gave him. He never wanted to receive any money, just the education and comoradory was enough, so I kept him fed and soda watered down. If I didn't have all the donated time from James, I would still be squishing those hard to get to rivets, now I'm ready for paint with his help. I know everyone's destiny will show its true face, and you will meet some great people along the way, and some you will never see again. I for one hope to keep in touch with this talented young man, hopefully through out life. and when I get my RV6A flying, i will fly up to Pa. and give him the reins to my bird, to which he deserves. I will take James and his wife Christi, out tonight for a fairwell dinner and drinks. and if any of the Tampa Builders want to come along to toast fairwell are invited. just give me a call. James' long desire is to build an RV8 or a Lionheart, and I hope, one day he will get that opportunity I do know he has the talent and the skills required, and it should be some piece of work. see you tonight James Sincerely, Scott reviere rv6a finishing, thanks to James, rv6a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis /Fran Flamini" <flamini2(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: 4 seats
Date: Jun 09, 2001
The RV-10 has been flying in the Chicago area see photo at ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Public/flamini(at)home.com/P3100010.jpg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miller Robert" <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 8:02 PM Subject: RV-List: 4 seats > > Anyone know any details re: rumored 4-seat RV? > Also ... have seen "RV-10" mentioned as in development in a couple of > posts. What is this? > Thanks. > Robert > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 2001
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: FW: [rv8list] Navaid Installation
--- Emrath wrote: > > What about method discussed by Sam Buchannan of mounting in the wing > on the > outboard rib and running a "push tube" to the bell crank? I think > there is a > discussion on his www site. I did that on my -6 and while we're not flying yet, neither I nor my Technical Counselor could see anything wrong with the installation. You will have to make the wingtips removable, of course, but then the unit is _right there_ for adjustments and such. Installation was a piece of cake. You will tie directly to the aileron bellcrank so no pitch input. The down side in a -6 is that a cockpit installation could be adjusted in flight while I'll have to land, adjust, launch, test, repeat. Throw me in that briar patch! Couldn't do an in-flight adjustment in a -8 anyway, so what the hey? Several such installation _are_ flying, including the one pioneered by Sam and his friend, and to date no problems have been reported to the list. Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Firewall Forward ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: insulation
Date: Jun 09, 2001
I'm surprised some expert in sound insulation hasn't come forth yet! When I tried to reduce shop noise from the showroom in my MG Dealership, someone from the local university gave me some tips: Seal all openings, cracks etc. Weatherstrip doors, caulk cracks etc. For us this means sealing the firewall, canopy, and probably the fresh air vents. Prevent vibration in surfaces - the sound wave hits the firewall and starts a new wave on the other side. Use insulation such as lead sheeting or solid concrete. The heavier (denser) the material the better. I believe that in our RVs, sound deadening insulation is impractical. I suspect that most of the effect of sound deadening insulation stuck to the firewall comes from vibration reduction and hole sealing. For heat insulation, in a 3/4 inch or smaller space air is probably best. Vacuum is better but impractical. The lighter the better. I bought an owner (a carpenter) built house once. He said it had six inches of fiberglass insulation in the roof. I later found out that the six inches was there all right but compressed to about an inch to make it fit. Useless! Worse than nothing! If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it. Hal Kempthorne 2578 Elliot Court Santa Clara, CA 95051-1849 408.244.4984 CELL 408.230.0891 RV6a N7HK Flying 1965 Debonair for sale - check www.aerobotix.org ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Brick" <jbrick(at)wolfenet.com>
Subject: Canopy Cracks Question
Date: Jun 09, 2001
I super glued a swatch of gray scotchbrite on the head of about 20 or 30 round head bolts, chucked it into a drill and used that to buff the holes on the inside of the canopy. The outer side of the holes were countersunk but the inner side were sharp. That seemed to work well enough but I haven't riveted the canopy yet...waiting to paint the frame. jb RV-4 Graham, WA -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ENewton57(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 3:27 PM Subject: RV-List: Canopy Cracks Question It has been about three months now since I finished my canopy (slider) on my 6A. I was very careful throughout and managed to get it all installed with no cracks. I ended up drilling all holes 1/16" over and used #6 screws for everything (no rivets). I carefully snugged the screws but not too tight. I used tinnerman washers under every screw and countersunk the holes oversized to allow for some movement. Well today, I was prepping to do the fiberglass work around the rollbar and windshield and low and behold I see some very tiny spider cracks eminating from one of the screw holes in the canopy. I pulled ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ENewton57(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 09, 2001
Subject: Re: FW: [rv8list] Navaid Installation
In a message dated 6/9/01 8:47:38 AM Central Daylight Time, grobdriver(at)yahoo.com writes: --- Emrath wrote: > > What about method discussed by Sam Buchannan of mounting in the wing > on the > outboard rib and running a "push tube" to the bell crank? I think > there is a > discussion on his www site. I did that on my -6 and while we're not flying yet, neither I nor my Technical Counselor could see anything wrong with the installation. You will have to make the wingtips removable, of course, but then the unit is _right there_ for adjustments and such. >> I installed mine that way also. For pictures go here and scroll down: http://enewton.addr.com/wings/final.html There is also a link to the pictures of Bob Butler's installation. Eric Newton - Long Beach, Mississippi RV-6A N57ME (Reserved) (Engine Cowling) http://www.ericsrv6a.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Paint Booth Ventilation
Date: Jun 09, 2001
> Old furnace fans make a good exhaust fan. Are they explosion proof? Hal Kempthorne RV6a N7HK (Valentine) FLYING ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 2001
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: FW: [rv8list] Navaid Installation
More than likely no adjustments to the servo will be necessary after initial installation, but if so probably one tweak will do it. Most of the adjustments are required at the head which are easily accomplished in flight. Sam Buchanan (RV-6) "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal Navaid installation: http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/navaid.html =========================== Mike Thompson wrote: > > > --- Emrath wrote: > > > > What about method discussed by Sam Buchannan of mounting in the wing > > on the > > outboard rib and running a "push tube" to the bell crank? I think > > there is a > > discussion on his www site. > > I did that on my -6 and while we're not flying yet, neither I nor my > Technical Counselor could see anything wrong with the installation. > You will have to make the wingtips removable, of course, but then the > unit is _right there_ for adjustments and such. > > Installation was a piece of cake. > You will tie directly to the aileron bellcrank so no pitch input. > The down side in a -6 is that a cockpit installation could be adjusted > in flight while I'll have to land, adjust, launch, test, repeat. > Throw me in that briar patch! > Couldn't do an in-flight adjustment in a -8 anyway, so what the hey? > > Several such installation _are_ flying, including the one pioneered by > Sam and his friend, and to date no problems have been reported to the > list. > > Mike Thompson > Austin, TX > -6 N140RV (Reserved) > Firewall Forward ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Im7shannon(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 09, 2001
Subject: Re: Canopy Cracks Question
Was your plexi warm when you tightened the screws? If they were torqued when the plexi was cold, that may have contributed to the problem, There is a "liquid plastic" compound somewhere in the archives I have read about that might help if you could inject it into the cracks somehow. Good luck, we feel your pain! That must have been an upsetting discovery. Kevin -9A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Thomas Mosher" <tgmosher(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: 4 seats
Date: Jun 09, 2001
Definitely not a Van's RV-10. Also, the photo has to be old or someone has altered it. N4JB belongs to a Citation 560 (Citation V) that was registered in November 2000. Tom Mosher ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis /Fran Flamini" <flamini2(at)home.com> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 8:39 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: 4 seats > > The RV-10 has been flying in the Chicago area see photo at > ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Public/flamini(at)home.com/P3100010.jpg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miller Robert" <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> > To: > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 8:02 PM > Subject: RV-List: 4 seats > > > > > > Anyone know any details re: rumored 4-seat RV? > > Also ... have seen "RV-10" mentioned as in development in a couple of > > posts. What is this? > > Thanks. > > Robert > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 2001
From: KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: Canopy Cracks Question
>I super glued a swatch of gray scotchbrite on the head of about 20 or 30 >round head bolts, chucked it into a drill and used that to buff the holes on >the inside of the canopy. That was some work............. I did several things to radius the holes, and probably over-kill. First, I wouldn't even go LOOK at the canopy if it was less than 70 degrees out. I used a standard drill bit with the cutting edge of the tip and turn dulled so it wouldn't "bite" the plexi as hard. I fine-tuned the bits and practiced on some old junk plexi first. Then, using a cordless drill, which runs slower than and with more control than a corded or air-driven drill, drilled the holes. Slow speed drills allow you to drill through rather than melt through. It was 80 degrees out and I did it in the sun. Really softens that glass up. I had a #30 hole initially ( so I could cleco the glass to the frame) and then enlarged them to the final size (can't remember what, it's been so long). Then I radiused (?) the holes with a small fine-grit 'beehive'-shaped grinder on my Dremmel. THEN, I took small pieces of 300 sandpaper and smoothed out the interior of THAT hole. Took a while but you should have seen the holes. SMOOOOOOOOOOOooooooth. Overkill? Maybe. But who wants a cracked canopy. It would probably amaze us (and freak us) if we knew how much the canopy changes in size with extremes of temperature. When installing the canopy, I put a line of RTV between the frame and the glass to seal it from water leaks (which it did very well; no rain in MY cockpit), and to give the glass something soft to sit on. I would want that if I was a plexiglass canopy. My canopy was installed using pulled rivets, and screws in some key places. Looks great. 500+ hours, no problems with the canopy........... Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 2001
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: Re: Paint Booth Ventilation
Hal, Most furnace blowers have the motor outside of the path of the air they are transferring so they would be considered explosion proof. Actually you can use a filtered box fan to feed the booth and a furnace blower to evacuate it. AL Al Mojzisik InAir Instruments, LLC Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI) AOA and SO much more! http://www.liftreserve.com > > Old furnace fans make a good exhaust fan. >Are they explosion proof? >Hal Kempthorne >RV6a N7HK (Valentine) FLYING > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DvdBock(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 09, 2001
Subject: Re: RV8-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 06/07/01
Still need some basic tools like 3x Rivet Gun, Microstop countersinks, C bench dimpler, Deburring Set, etc. I am about to embark on a first-time F1 Rocket kit build and I would like to save $ by acquiring used tools from a prior builder. Please do not reply through the list, but directly to me: DvdBock(at)AOL.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DvdBock(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 09, 2001
Subject: Re: RV4-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 06/07/01
Still need some basic tools like 3x Rivet Gun, Microstop countersinks, C bench dimpler, Deburring Set, etc. I am about to embark on a first-time F1 Rocket kit build and I would like to save $ by acquiring used tools from a prior builder. Please do not reply through the list, but directly to me: DvdBock(at)AOL.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Paint Booth Ventilation
Date: Jun 09, 2001
Come to think of it, why not set the fan to blow into the booth thus using only fresh non-flammable air? Wouldn't work in LA of course. hal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 10:24 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Booth Ventilation > > Hal, > > Most furnace blowers have the motor outside of the path of the air they are > transferring so they would be considered explosion proof. Actually you can > use a filtered box fan to feed the booth and a furnace blower to evacuate > it. AL > > Al Mojzisik > InAir Instruments, LLC > Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI) > AOA and SO much more! > http://www.liftreserve.com > > > > Old furnace fans make a good exhaust fan. > >Are they explosion proof? > >Hal Kempthorne > >RV6a N7HK (Valentine) FLYING > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JGSinger(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 09, 2001
Subject: Re: Used tools
Just to start another argument, you might try a 2X rivet gun before committing to the 3X. I have used both and much prefer the 2X over the 3X. I seem to have much more control with it. Just my opinion. I have heard stories of builders sucessfully using air hammers to completely build their RV's. John Singer In a message dated 6/9/01 11:29:41 AM, DvdBock(at)aol.com writes: Still need some basic tools like 3x Rivet Gun, Microstop countersinks, C bench dimpler, Deburring Set, etc. I am about to embark on a first-time F1 Rocket kit build and I would like to save $ by acquiring used tools from a prior builder. Please do not reply through the list, but directly to me: DvdBock(at)AOL.com >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 2001
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: Paint Booth Ventilation
kempthornes wrote: > > > > Old furnace fans make a good exhaust fan. > > Are they explosion proof? > > Hal Kempthorne > RV6a N7HK (Valentine) FLYING > This begs the question, "Why must it be an exhaust fan?" I've asked this question for years& never received an answer. If you place the fan outside your filters for incoming air, wouldn't this take the motor out of the explosive environment? It will also pressurize the work area instead of creating a partial vacuum. If you are 'sucking,' you will suck dust through all the cracks & holes that are inevetably missed when the makeshift paint booth is built. If you 'blow,' only flitered air arrives in the work area. The only downside I can see is slightly more air velocity entering the work area, which may need to be diffused somehow. fan > filters > work area > exit filters (to stop overspray exiting the work area) Can someone tell me why this won't work? Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jim jewell" <jjewell(at)okanagan.net>
Subject: Re: Canopy Cracks Question
Date: Jun 09, 2001
Great post Michael, thanks, Some time ago, more than a year or so, there was a post regarding the use of a flame to melt and smooth the edges of Plexiglas. this post was followed by another. The gist of the second post was that "flaming" edges of Plexiglas would promote fine hairline looking cracks that would be very numerous and all but impossible to cope with. Could it be that the numerous fine cracks that have shown up around some of the recent poster's drilled holes arose out of unknowingly drilling too fast thereby "melting through" the Plexiglas and causing the heated edge condition? In any case it might be wise to make sure that any drilling in Plexiglas should take this consideration into account. I will try hard not to be drawn into a rush to get the canopy fitted. I bought the Plexiglas drills, just one more small investment to try to protect the larger one. They sure do add up after a while! Thanks again Michael Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 9:37 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Canopy Cracks Question > > > >I super glued a swatch of gray scotchbrite on the head of about 20 or 30 > >round head bolts, chucked it into a drill and used that to buff the holes on > >the inside of the canopy. > > That was some work............. > > I did several things to radius the holes, and probably over-kill. > > First, I wouldn't even go LOOK at the canopy if it was less than 70 degrees > out. I used a standard drill bit with the cutting edge of the tip and turn > dulled so it wouldn't "bite" the plexi as hard. I fine-tuned the bits and > practiced on some old junk plexi first. Then, using a cordless drill, which > runs slower than and with more control than a corded or air-driven drill, > drilled the holes. Slow speed drills allow you to drill through rather than > melt through. It was 80 degrees out and I did it in the sun. Really softens > that glass up. I had a #30 hole initially ( so I could cleco the glass to > the frame) and then enlarged them to the final size (can't remember what, > it's been so long). Then I radiused (?) the holes with a small fine-grit > 'beehive'-shaped grinder on my Dremmel. THEN, I took small pieces of 300 > sandpaper and smoothed out the interior of THAT hole. Took a while but you > should have seen the holes. SMOOOOOOOOOOOooooooth. > > Overkill? Maybe. But who wants a cracked canopy. It would probably amaze us > (and freak us) if we knew how much the canopy changes in size with extremes > of temperature. > > When installing the canopy, I put a line of RTV between the frame and the > glass to seal it from water leaks (which it did very well; no rain in MY > cockpit), and to give the glass something soft to sit on. I would want that > if I was a plexiglass canopy. > > My canopy was installed using pulled rivets, and screws in some key places. > Looks great. > > 500+ hours, no problems with the canopy........... > > Michael > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 2001
From: barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com>
Subject: SUN/HEAT CURING PROSEALED TANKS
Anyone know of a reason not to put tanks out in the New Jersey 75 degree day to let the sun heat them up and cure them faster? Also, anyone working on a NINE: when you put the baffels in for the gas tanks, did you do as many on 6's/4's and 8's have done...squeeze the skins to the baffles with wood, aluminum angles, screws, clamps etec etc? Barry POte RV9a Wings (tanks only need baffles to be done) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Schlosser" <kevinschlosser(at)msn.com>
Subject: Any builder's near New Jersey?
Date: Jun 09, 2001
If ant builders are within an hour drive from Central Jersey, I would like to meet one day and see a project up-close before I start one. I took the first step yesterday. I ordered the info pack, video, and the RV-7 preview plans! Woo Hoo, Can't wait! Kevin Schlosser -=< PropellerHead >=- Future RV-7 Builder Decisions...... Tail Dragger: 100% Canopy: Tip Up 80% / Slider 20% ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 2001
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: insulation
kempthornes wrote: > > > I'm surprised some expert in sound insulation hasn't come forth yet! > > When I tried to reduce shop noise from the showroom in my MG Dealership, > someone from the local university gave me some tips: > > Seal all openings, cracks etc. Weatherstrip doors, caulk cracks etc. For > us this means sealing the firewall, canopy, and probably the fresh air > vents. > > Prevent vibration in surfaces - the sound wave hits the firewall and starts > a new wave on the other side. > > Use insulation such as lead sheeting or solid concrete. The heavier > (denser) the material the better. I believe that in our RVs, sound > deadening insulation is impractical. I suspect that most of the effect of > sound deadening insulation stuck to the firewall comes from vibration > reduction and hole sealing. > > For heat insulation, in a 3/4 inch or smaller space air is probably best. > Vacuum is better but impractical. The lighter the better. I bought an > owner (a carpenter) built house once. He said it had six inches of > fiberglass insulation in the roof. I later found out that the six inches > was there all right but compressed to about an inch to make it fit. > Useless! Worse than nothing! > > If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it. > > Hal Kempthorne > 2578 Elliot Court > Santa Clara, CA 95051-1849 > 408.244.4984 CELL 408.230.0891 > RV6a N7HK Flying > 1965 Debonair for sale - check www.aerobotix.org > I wouldn't call myself an expert, but I did do sound work in a previous life (career). Hal's right. The easiest path for noise is the air it's already moving through. Sealing air leaks is almost free, both in cost & weight. Damping is heavy if it works. Vibration isolation can help a lot for not much money (like rubber isolated exhaust hangers). One thing he didn't mention for heat is reflective film. Most heat from the engine compartment (or lost from our bodies in winter flying) is through radiation. Simple aluminum foil or sheet separated by an air space provides an amazing amount of heat rejection. Look under your car's hood at the shroud over the exhaust manifold. All it does is reflect radiated heat back into the manifold. For cold cockpits, try the foil faced foam or bubble-wrap looking stuff sold at building supply houses. (Check fire resistance, of course.) Not an expert, just ex-perienced. Charlie replacing the windshield & adding lightness to the RV2+2 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 09, 2001
Subject: Re: Used tools
In a message dated 6/9/2001 12:50:23 PM Central Daylight Time, JGSinger(at)aol.com writes: > To: Prior Kit Builders > Still need some basic tools like 3x Rivet Gun, Microstop countersinks, C > bench dimpler, Deburring Set, etc. I am about to embark on a first-time F1 > Rocket kit build > and I would like to save $ by acquiring used tools from a prior builder. > Please do not > reply through the list i have a 4x and its working fine for my f1. chris wilcox ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: Re: Children's Headsets
Date: Jun 09, 2001
Norm, At that young age if you can get her to wear/keep on the headsets you'll be real fortunate. There is two danger areas for concern against hearing damage to delicate/young/developing ears; the first is the loud noise, the second is the pressure build up between the inner & outer ear canals. The head sets work for the noise, for the climb out, any significant altitude change during the flight, and for final descent you will want her to swallow repeatedly to relieve the pressure. I accomplished this with my son when he was about her age by feeding him the bottle. It worked great for numerous take offs & landing, until the final into Monterey. It was extended and I fed him alot, so when we landed he promptly barfed all over me. Oh well it was just another bonding experience. Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 2001
From: Ian Jessen <vans_rv(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 4 seats
is it me, or does that look like a bd-4? --- Thomas Mosher wrote: > > > Definitely not a Van's RV-10. Also, the photo has to > be old or someone has > altered it. N4JB belongs to a Citation 560 (Citation > V) that was registered > in November 2000. > > Tom Mosher > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis /Fran Flamini" <flamini2(at)home.com> > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 8:39 AM > Subject: Re: RV-List: 4 seats > > > Flamini" > > > > The RV-10 has been flying in the Chicago area see > photo at > > > ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Public/flamini(at)home.com/P3100010.jpg > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Miller Robert" <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> > > To: > > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 8:02 PM > > Subject: RV-List: 4 seats > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know any details re: rumored 4-seat RV? > > > Also ... have seen "RV-10" mentioned as in > development in a couple of > > > posts. What is this? > > > Thanks. > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Any builder's near New Jersey?
Date: Jun 09, 2001
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Any builder's near New Jersey? Thread-Index: AcDxHNt9r+zqnVx8EdWAMwAIxwleHwAHpW3A
From: "Reeves, Doug" <Douglas.Reeves(at)archongroup.com>
Hi Kevin, Welcome. Here are the New Jersey listings from my 'RV White Pages'. USA | New Jersey | Belle Mead | Cain, Richard | 908.359.5206 | 6A | FL | N726JS, USA | New Jersey | Cedar Grove | Shannon,Bill | 973.945.4424 | 6A | FK | N44WS, USA | New Jersey | Cherry Hill | Colontonio,Moe | 856.768.4400 | 8QB | FK | N773MC, USA | New Jersey | Lincoln Park | Donohue,John/Tom | 973.696.0247 | 8A | EM,,KCDW USA | New Jersey | Matawan | Brown,James | 732.566.0052 | 3 | FL,,3N6 USA | New Jersey | McGuire AFB | Nell, Tim | 609.723.9319 | 8 | EM,, USA | New Jersey | Montclair | Pote,Barry | 973.746.7591 | 9A | WG | N666BP | KCDW Best regards, Doug Reeves Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing http://www.vansaircraft.net -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Schlosser [mailto:kevinschlosser(at)msn.com] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 1:55 PM Subject: RV-List: Any builder's near New Jersey? If ant builders are within an hour drive from Central Jersey, I would like to meet one day and see a project up-close before I start one. I took the first step yesterday. I ordered the info pack, video, and the RV-7 preview plans! Woo Hoo, Can't wait! Kevin Schlosser -=< PropellerHead >=- Future RV-7 Builder Decisions...... Tail Dragger: 100% Canopy: Tip Up 80% / Slider 20% ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Thomas Mosher" <tgmosher(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: 4 seats
Date: Jun 09, 2001
I found the original - N4JB as shown in the original photo is a Wittman W9 Tailwind - photos and a description are found at: http://www.chlassociates.com/Aviation/n4jb.htm RV-10 my butt. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Jessen" <vans_rv(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 6:04 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: 4 seats > > is it me, or does that look like a bd-4? > > --- Thomas Mosher wrote: > > > > > > Definitely not a Van's RV-10. Also, the photo has to > > be old or someone has > > altered it. N4JB belongs to a Citation 560 (Citation > > V) that was registered > > in November 2000. > > > > Tom Mosher > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dennis /Fran Flamini" <flamini2(at)home.com> > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 8:39 AM > > Subject: Re: RV-List: 4 seats > > > > > > Flamini" > > > > > > The RV-10 has been flying in the Chicago area see > > photo at > > > > > > ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Public/flamini(at)home.com/P3100010.jpg > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Miller Robert" <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 8:02 PM > > > Subject: RV-List: 4 seats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know any details re: rumored 4-seat RV? > > > > Also ... have seen "RV-10" mentioned as in > > development in a couple of > > > > posts. What is this? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through > > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > Matronics! > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: 4 seats
Date: Jun 09, 2001
Looks like a Whitman TailWind to me. Ed Anderson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Jessen" <vans_rv(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 7:04 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: 4 seats > > is it me, or does that look like a bd-4? > > --- Thomas Mosher wrote: > > > > > > Definitely not a Van's RV-10. Also, the photo has to > > be old or someone has > > altered it. N4JB belongs to a Citation 560 (Citation > > V) that was registered > > in November 2000. > > > > Tom Mosher > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dennis /Fran Flamini" <flamini2(at)home.com> > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 8:39 AM > > Subject: Re: RV-List: 4 seats > > > > > > Flamini" > > > > > > The RV-10 has been flying in the Chicago area see > > photo at > > > > > > ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Public/flamini(at)home.com/P3100010.jpg > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Miller Robert" <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 8:02 PM > > > Subject: RV-List: 4 seats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know any details re: rumored 4-seat RV? > > > > Also ... have seen "RV-10" mentioned as in > > development in a couple of > > > > posts. What is this? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through > > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > Matronics! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: SUN/HEAT CURING PROSEALED TANKS
Date: Jun 09, 2001
I didn't Barry. The baffle fits quite snugly between the skin opening. One place to take care to put extra pro-seal is the baffle corners where there is a large gap between skin, baffle and rib. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ RV-9A: N872RV (Reserved) Working on fuse ----- Original Message ----- From: "barry pote" <barrypote(at)home.com> > Also, anyone working on a NINE: when you put the baffels in for the gas > tanks, did you do as many on 6's/4's and 8's have done...squeeze the > skins to the baffles with wood, aluminum angles, screws, clamps etec > etc? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Paint Booth Ventilation
Date: Jun 09, 2001
If your garage is the paint booth and you pressurize it is this manner, all the fumes and paint are forced out through every available leak which is likely undesirable if some of those leaks lead to the living area. The pigment in the air will settle in those leaks and show you exactly where they are if you can see them from the other side. The exhaust fan method avoids this problem. Albert Gardner ----- Original Message ----- > > > Are they explosion proof? > This begs the question, "Why must it be an exhaust fan?" > I've asked this question for years& never received an > answer. If you place the fan outside your filters for > incoming air, wouldn't this take the motor out of the > explosive environment? It will also pressurize the work area > instead of creating a partial vacuum. If you are 'sucking,' > you will suck dust through all the cracks & holes that are > inevetably missed when the makeshift paint booth is built. > If you 'blow,' only flitered air arrives in the work area. > The only downside I can see is slightly more air velocity > entering the work area, which may need to be diffused > somehow. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 2001
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: 4 seats
Thomas Mosher wrote: > > > I found the original - N4JB as shown in the original photo is a Wittman W9 > Tailwind - photos and a description are found at: > http://www.chlassociates.com/Aviation/n4jb.htm > > RV-10 my butt. > > Tom > Here is the new RV-10 http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jsflyrv/RV-10.html :) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 2001
From: ENewton57(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Canopy Cracks Question
<> Yes, the shop and plexy were around 75 degrees. I have been accused of not knowing my own strength. Maybe I just tightened them more than I thought. When I worked on cars a lot I used the old torque method used here in Mississippi "tighten it until it strips, then back it off 1/4 turn" just kidding ;>) I thought I was just snugging these screws but the way the cracks are in kind of a "star" pattern all around the hole, it appears to be from being too tight. << There is a "liquid plastic" compound somewhere in the archives I have read about that might help if you could inject it into the cracks somehow.>> Yes I found it at a hobby shop. Its called Methylene Chloride and seems to work great. I put some on each screw hole and it quickly wicked into each crack and appears to have "welded" the cracks shut (I hope). Time will tell if this works. <> Thanks to everyone who responded. Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Navaid Install on 8A
Date: Jun 09, 2001
I added two pictures of the Navaid servo installation to my panel page at: http://rv8asite.homestead.com/mypanel.html. Jerry Carter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 5:58 AM Subject: RV-List: Navaid Install on 8A > > Any suggestions on installation of the Navaid servo on an 8A? Pictures > also help. > rickjory(at)msn.com > > Rick Jory, Highlands Ranch, CO RV8A > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 2001
From: Steve Prull <sprull(at)bendcable.com>
Subject: RV8 Empennage for sale
Well, it's taken me a year to finish the empennage , and I've come to the conclusion that it's going to take me a long time to get this project done, so I'm going to sell it and look for another avenue to get into the air. So.... FOR SALE: finished RV8 empennage, with serial number, plans, builders manual. Internal services primed, excellent workmanship (checked by A&P early on). Asking $2200. Also, will negotiate on selling some tools ( 3X rivet gun, Tatco squeezer, C-tool, rivet sets, dies, etc.). Have digitized photos of project that I can send you if interested. Steve Prull Bend, OR 541-383-8277 sprull(at)bendcable.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 2001
From: Steve Prull <sprull(at)bendcable.com>
Subject: RV8 empennage for sale
Well, it's taken me a year to finish the empennage , and I've come to the conclusion that it's going to take me a long time to get this project done, so I'm going to sell it and look for another avenue to get into the air. So.... FOR SALE: finished RV8 empennage, with serial number, plans, builders manual. Internal services primed, excellent workmanship (checked by A&P early on). Asking $2200. Also, will negotiate on selling some tools ( 3X rivet gun, Tatco squeezer, C-tool, rivet sets, dies, etc.). Have digitized photos of project that I can send you if interested. Steve Prull Bend, OR 541-383-8277 sprull(at)bendcable.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Reminder: Don't miss the 10th annual Northwest RV Fly-In!
Date: Jun 09, 2001
The 10th annual Northwest RV Fly-In is next Saturday June 16, at Scappoose OR Airport (SPB). Don't miss it! Get all the details at www.vanshomewing.org. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Textor" <pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Countersinking skin to tank baffle
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Good morning, On my 8 tanks, I'm ready to countersink the skin where it attaches to the tank baffle. Should this be done 1. while in the cradle with baffle clecoed in. 2. skin only. or 3. while tank is clecoed, bolted and strapped on to spar??? Thanks all. Jack RV8, tanks DSM Ginning from first RV ride yesterday, thanks to Doug Rosendahl (RV4), what a pilot!! Thanks! PS. My son John is still grinning from his first ride, thanks to David Wilson (RV8- N297DW) .. Wow what a day at the Boone Fly-in!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2001
Subject: Re: 4 seats
From: lm4(at)juno.com
Tom, I'm sure it was just a joke. The plane is a Bede-4. The N number was probably added just for fun. Van is still considering a 4-place and suggested that there has to be demand for one to be built. He must be aware of some demand or he would not have accepted the cost of doing the survey. Larry Mac Donald Rochester N.Y. writes: > > > Definitely not a Van's RV-10. Also, the photo has to be old or > someone has > altered it. N4JB belongs to a Citation 560 (Citation V) that was > registered > in November 2000. > > Tom Mosher > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis /Fran Flamini" <flamini2(at)home.com> > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 8:39 AM > Subject: Re: RV-List: 4 seats > > > > > > > The RV-10 has been flying in the Chicago area see photo at > > ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Public/flamini(at)home.com/P3100010.jpg > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Miller Robert" <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> > > To: > > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 8:02 PM > > Subject: RV-List: 4 seats > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know any details re: rumored 4-seat RV? > > > Also ... have seen "RV-10" mentioned as in development in a > couple of > > > posts. What is this? > > > Thanks. > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2001
From: Robert Blum <bob(at)theblums.net>
Subject: Ride in Turbulence
When I brought my rv6a back from Minnesota in April, I encountered about 40 minutes of interesting turb between east of Reno to Truckee. The 737's were describing it as constant moderate. my 6a felt very solid in the turb. If you have flown both a Cessna 182 and a cessna 172 in bumps I compare it much more to how a 182 feels in turbulance. The one big difference was that the 6a had a tendency to really yaw once in a while much more so than a 182. In all, the solid crisp feel of the 6a didn't change at all. It felt solid in the bumps. I believe that VMC and a soft touch on the stick will take care of the bumps. BTW, I realize that vmc is a range, but Eric Heil, who built my plane and treated it lovingly until "she who must be obeyed" demanded a house, put a blue tick mark on the airspeed indicator for VMC. I like the idea. One less thing to store in this old pilots head. I took a freind of my wife's flying yesterday. We spent about an hour maneuvering and I gave her a mini lesson. She said upon completion. "Thanks this is the most fun that I have ever had in my life"... Talk about an RV grin! Bob Blum N710EH PS: listers, I responded by using the response button and deleting the 65 or so messages that followed the post, is there an easier way? Henderson" > > > I am interested to know people's opinions on how RV's > > "ride" in turbulence. I am dreaming of building a 7, > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net>
"Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com"
Subject: Van's Dimmer
Date: Jun 10, 2001
Can anyone out there scan in the directions that came with Van's dimmer and e-mail them to me? I can't seem to find mine... Thanks! Bill VonDane Colorado Springs, CO RV-8A - N8VD http://vondane.com/rv8a/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JVanLaak(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 10, 2001
Subject: Turbulence and CG
One more point on how the RV 6 rides in turbulence. I bought the RV 6 I have now about 2.5 years ago after more than a year of looking and having flown about 10 planes. Some definitely rode turbulence better than others but I was slow to identify the cause until I came one particular plane. It was a very pretty RV6 with a tipup canopy and 160 hp engine and wood prop. It was equiped about average and looked really slick, with most of the rivets invisible due to some kind of filling. I don''t like fillers, but it was not reason to disqualify the plane. But it flew strangely in turbulence, especially the thermals so common in a Texas Spring, and it actually made me airsick!. With 30 years and 4000 + hours behind me, getting sick was not something I expected. The ride had a funny sensation that I can only call "heaving", not the wallowing that a 172 does, or even the choppy roller coaster of my RV4, but a vertical motion with a nose down pitching sensation. There was something just not right. I noticed the stick forces were very light in pitch, and although the seller would not permit aerobatics he did agree to a steep turn. So I set up a 2.5 G turn, and the plane motored around and around hands off. After landing I examined the tail more closely and decided that the filler, strobe power supply, and various other items located in the tail made it very tail heavy. I consulted with Vans on what might be done and they agreed that removing the filler and moving the other items forward and perhaps adding the torsional dampener under the prop would get the CG back where it belonged. I made an offer on the plane reflecting the cost of the dampener and some consideration for my time and effort to repaint and rework, but it was rejected and the plane sold to someone else. My current plane has an empty CG right about where Van said it should be (I don't remember the numbers) and it handles the turbulence very well indeed. I do slow down with passengers since some of them do not like the chop, but the plane feels and flies totally normally. I would not recommend an RV6 for serious instrument work because it is active and sensitive in turbulence, but it would be perfectly safe for limited IFR with a simple autopilot. A very fine machine. Jim N1KJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Countersinking skin to tank baffle
Date: Jun 10, 2001
Jack, It is much easier to do it while the skin is mounted on the tank and on the wing. So, your option 3. I did a few on the bottom of my wing this way. However, I did it differently after I seen how hard it was for me to make nice countersinks in .032 skins. Here's what worked for me: 1) Dimple the row of holes on the tank skin where the rear baffle is attached. 2) With a drill/dremel tool and a small ScotchBrite wheel; gently 'lower' the protruding dimples on the backside of the tank skin. 3) Grind off a part of the wise-grip hand dimpling tool so you can dimple the rear baffle. You will not be able to make deep enough dimples in this thick stock so this is why I smoothed down the dimples on the back of the tank skin. Have a look here to see how I modified the wise-grip dimple tool for the RV-8 rear baffles: www.ontariorvators.org/tools.html (I started a 'Tool Modifications' page on the Ontario Wing website for the occasion :) ) This method worked well for me and everything is nice and flush (and no leaks!) plus I think it looks better than machine countersinking - at least the way *I* countersink... I can machine countersink the main spar and any other thicker stock very nice, just not the thinner skins. Just my opinion of course. Are RV-8 Wings www.ontariorvators.org VAF-OW -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jack Textor Sent: June 11, 2001 12:16 PM Subject: RV-List: Countersinking skin to tank baffle Good morning, On my 8 tanks, I'm ready to countersink the skin where it attaches to the tank baffle. Should this be done 1. while in the cradle with baffle clecoed in. 2. skin only. or 3. while tank is clecoed, bolted and strapped on to spar??? Thanks all. Jack RV8, tanks DSM Ginning from first RV ride yesterday, thanks to Doug Rosendahl (RV4), what a pilot!! Thanks! PS. My son John is still grinning from his first ride, thanks to David Wilson (RV8- N297DW) .. Wow what a day at the Boone Fly-in!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: P B & J?
Date: Jun 10, 2001
Bill, From working with P & B switches for many years (albeit 10 years ago now) I think you may have received a lemon. These are (or at least used to be) high quality switches that I depended on for many aircraft installations. I used these switches when I restored the electrical part of many warbirds and not aware of any troubles with sloppyness. You will see these used for Master and Mags on many Texan's, Cornells and Moth's. FWIW, Are RV-8 Wings -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane Sent: June 7, 2001 11:25 PM Subject: RV-List: P B & J? For those of you that are using the Potter and Brumfield breaker switches... Is the bat part of the switch really sloppy? I just got one from Aircraft Spruce, and I would classify it as junk... Is the how these things are? or did I just get a lemon? Thanks... Bill VonDane Colorado Springs, CO RV-8A - N8VD http://vondane.com/rv8a/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [rv8list] Van's Dimmer
Date: Jun 10, 2001
I got one... Thanks!!! -Bill -----Original Message----- From: Bill VonDane [mailto:n8vd(at)earthlink.net] Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 8:14 AM Subject: [rv8list] Van's Dimmer Can anyone out there scan in the directions that came with Van's dimmer and e-mail them to me? I can't seem to find mine... Thanks! Bill VonDane Colorado Springs, CO RV-8A - N8VD http://vondane.com/rv8a/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: RV Ride in Turbulence
Date: Jun 10, 2001
Recently I was returning from New Mexico on a very nice, silky smooth day. As I approached Poncha Pass (about 10,000 - maybe a bit less ) I motored over at about 12,000, not expecting much except the usual few small bumps. What I got was a five minute wild ride. The RV6A at times was totally uncontrollable, with downward pitches of 60-degrees, lateral yaws of the same magnitude....all I could do was to hang on, reduce power and hope for the best....turning around was out of the question....the whole episode took me the five minutes, but it seemed like 5 hours....when I broke over the hill into the Arkansas Valley near Salida, CO, the air smoothed out and was like glass again....I got caught in some air flow off the 14K hills nearby that was funneling down over Poncha Pass it seems. A really scary ride, but the RV took it all in stride, but those wild pitches, yaws, and up jumps were like riding one of those mechanical bulls. FWIW RV6A Flying Salida, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2001
From: Kyle Clark <kyle_clark(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV8 empennage for sale
Steve, Well it's sad to hear you're looking for other avenues of enjoyment. I am just in the planning stages of an RV-7 and am interested not in your empennage, but very interested in your tools. Could you send me some details about the tools? Thanks, Kyle Clark --- Steve Prull wrote: > > > Well, it's taken me a year to finish the > empennage , and I've come to > the conclusion that it's going to take me a long > time to get this project > done, so I'm going to sell it and look for another > avenue to get into the > air. So.... > FOR SALE: finished RV8 empennage, with serial > number, plans, builders > manual. Internal services primed, excellent > workmanship (checked by A&P > early on). Asking $2200. Also, will negotiate on > selling some tools ( 3X > rivet gun, Tatco squeezer, C-tool, rivet sets, > dies, etc.). Have digitized > photos of project that I can send you if interested. > > Steve Prull > Bend, OR > 541-383-8277 > sprull(at)bendcable.com > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2001
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Countersinking skin to tank baffle
I found it works well to countersink with the skin off the baffle, and use a piece of scrap 063 with a #40 hole in it behind the skin, clamped securely in place. This is assuming you're using a pilot countersink. This prevents the countersink from chattering and making non-round holes. Made perfect holes for me every time, after some practice (do the bottoms first!) This method also has the advantage of making it far easier to install the rear baffle. Imagine trying to slide the baffle in place with the edges coated in black !@#$%$% aka Proseal, and trying not to get any to rub off on to the inner skin where you don't want it. Now picture how much harder that would be with dimples in the skin. Also, for best results, make your countersinks about 6-7 thousandths deeper than flush. It will look bad, but when the rivet is set with the layer of proseal under it, they will raise about .006-7, making it sit flush. Otherwise every rivet will stick up that amount. Obviously there are different opinions on this, but I just finished my tanks (yay!) and this method worked well for me. Jeff Point -6 wings Milwaukee WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2001
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Instrument Screws..
--- KAKlewin(at)aol.com wrote: > > Once again I summons the help of the mighty list!!!! > > I am getting to the point of mounting some instruments in my > panel and > since none of them came with the mounting screws/bolts/nuts or > whatever > everyone uses I though I would as for some assistance. With what is > everyone > mounting their 3 1/2 and 2 1/4 in. instruments to the panel with?? Kurt, I have attached the order I placed with Wicks to get the black machine screws for my panel. Get the nuts at Home Depot. You will see there are several different sizes... if nothing else you can use the part numbers to search their online catalog and choose your own. The longer ones can be easily cut down. The MS24693-BB50 are countersunk, the rest are pan-head. Turned out I was not good enough to get the holes perfect on every instrument, so I had to elongate some an use the pan-head. Oh well, strive for perfection and take what you get, is my motto. Maybe you will do better. Good luck! Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Firewall Forward Product ID Product Name Quantity Price Total Price MS35214-44 MS35214-44 12 $0.15 $1.80 MS35214-46 MS35214-46 12 $0.15 $1.80 MS35214-42 MS35214-42 12 $0.15 $1.80 MS35214-29 MS35214-29 6 $0.15 $0.90 MS24693-BB50 MS24693-BB50 12 $0.14 $1.68 MS35214-28 MS35214-28 6 $0.15 $0.90 MS35214-25 MS35214-25 6 $0.15 $0.90 MS35214-26 MS35214-26 6 $0.18 $1.08 MS35214-23 MS35214-23 6 $0.15 $0.90 MS35214-27 MS35214-27 12 $0.15 $1.80 TAX TX $0.00 SHIPPING Later Charge - Best Method $0.00 TOTAL $13.56 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: 4 seats...oh brother
Date: Jun 10, 2001
Come on guys...do you really think Van would design a 4 seater that is THAT ugly. I think not. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Mosher" <tgmosher(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 7:33 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: 4 seats > > I found the original - N4JB as shown in the original photo is a Wittman W9 > Tailwind - photos and a description are found at: > http://www.chlassociates.com/Aviation/n4jb.htm > > RV-10 my butt. > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Jessen" <vans_rv(at)yahoo.com> > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 6:04 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: 4 seats > > > > > > is it me, or does that look like a bd-4? > > > > --- Thomas Mosher wrote: > > > > > > > > > Definitely not a Van's RV-10. Also, the photo has to > > > be old or someone has > > > altered it. N4JB belongs to a Citation 560 (Citation > > > V) that was registered > > > in November 2000. > > > > > > Tom Mosher > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dennis /Fran Flamini" <flamini2(at)home.com> > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 8:39 AM > > > Subject: Re: RV-List: 4 seats > > > > > > > > > Flamini" > > > > > > > > The RV-10 has been flying in the Chicago area see > > > photo at > > > > > > > > > ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Public/flamini(at)home.com/P3100010.jpg > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Miller Robert" <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 8:02 PM > > > > Subject: RV-List: 4 seats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know any details re: rumored 4-seat RV? > > > > > Also ... have seen "RV-10" mentioned as in > > > development in a couple of > > > > > posts. What is this? > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > Matronics! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2001
From: "jdnewsum" <jdnewsum(at)qwest.net>
Subject: Electric Flaps - Installing the WD-613EF assembly
Question for RV6 Quick Builders: I am in the process of installing the electric flaps in my RV6-QB. On the WD-613EF received in my kit, the location that was masked off free of powder coat for the F-680 Bearing Block is on the right side. The plans, all the pictures in the manual and the Orndorff video, all show the F-680 located on the left side of the baggage area (left side of the WD-613A arm that attaches to the electric actuator). Yes, I have confirmed that the WD-613EF is in the correct orientation. Have any other RV6 quick builders encountered this anomaly? I would guess my options are - Option 1 - Remove the powder coat on the left side where the F-680 goes and install per plans. Option 2 - Install the F-680 on the right side where the powder coat was left off. (Might not be a good idea because the electric actuator appears to extend and retract at a slight angle and maybe more support is required on the left side). Option 3 - Get another F-680 and install one on both sides (belt and suspenders approach). Option 4 - Call Vans for advice. Any feedback, comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Dave Newsum ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2001
From: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Electric Flaps - Installing the WD-613EF assembly
I did options 2 and 4. I really couldn't see where it made any difference which side off center the bearing block was. I was a little nervous about how stiff the whole thing was and e-mailed support about that and the wrong side bearing issue. Their reply was: don't worry about it. It will wear in and get looser. There was no comment about the non-powdercoated area being on the right side. My guess is that their supplier made a whole batch of them wrong and that they're ignoring the issue until that batch is gone. Ed Holyoke 6QB ----- Original Message ----- From: "jdnewsum" <jdnewsum(at)qwest.net> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 3:36 PM Subject: RV-List: Electric Flaps - Installing the WD-613EF assembly > > Question for RV6 Quick Builders: > > I am in the process of installing the electric flaps in my RV6-QB. On the > WD-613EF received in my kit, the location that was masked off free of powder > coat for the F-680 Bearing Block is on the right side. The plans, all the > pictures in the manual and the Orndorff video, all show the F-680 located on > the left side of the baggage area (left side of the WD-613A arm that > attaches to the electric actuator). Yes, I have confirmed that the WD-613EF > is in the correct orientation. Have any other RV6 quick builders encountered > this anomaly? I would guess my options are - > > Option 1 - Remove the powder coat on the left side where the F-680 goes and > install per plans. > Option 2 - Install the F-680 on the right side where the powder coat was > left off. (Might not be a good idea because the electric actuator appears to > extend and retract at a slight angle and maybe more support is required on > the left side). > Option 3 - Get another F-680 and install one on both sides (belt and > suspenders approach). > Option 4 - Call Vans for advice. > > Any feedback, comments or suggestions would be appreciated. > > Dave Newsum ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: 4 seats
Date: Jun 10, 2001
Of course the original post was just joke. Dennis (the original poster) is the owner of the Tailwind and it does indeed say RV-10 on the side. I think Dennis uses that as his race number as he competes whenever he can. Dennis sold his tail number a while back so the picture was probably an older. Dennis, see what you've gone and done? You owe me breakfast next time for sorting out what you've started here. Do No Archive Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com Plainfield, IL RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps Stinson 108-2 N9666K > > Tom, > I'm sure it was just a joke. The plane is a Bede-4. The N number was > probably added just for fun. > Van is still considering a 4-place and suggested that there has to be > demand for one to be built. He must be aware of some demand > or he would not have accepted the cost of doing the survey. > Larry Mac Donald > Rochester N.Y. > > > writes: > > > > > > Definitely not a Van's RV-10. Also, the photo has to be old or > > someone has > > altered it. N4JB belongs to a Citation 560 (Citation V) that was > > registered > > in November 2000. > > > > Tom Mosher > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dennis /Fran Flamini" <flamini2(at)home.com> > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 8:39 AM > > Subject: Re: RV-List: 4 seats > > > > > > > > > > > > The RV-10 has been flying in the Chicago area see photo at > > > ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Public/flamini(at)home.com/P3100010.jpg > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Miller Robert" <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 8:02 PM > > > Subject: RV-List: 4 seats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know any details re: rumored 4-seat RV? > > > > Also ... have seen "RV-10" mentioned as in development in a > > couple of > > > > posts. What is this? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jrdial <jrdial@hal-pc.org>
Subject: FW: RV6-Quickbuild
Date: Jun 10, 2001
I am posting this for a friend of mine that is not on the list. The guy is an incredible craftsman but time constraints are forcing him to postpone RV building for a couple of years. -----Original Message----- From: SHOFFIUS(at)aol.com [SMTP:SHOFFIUS(at)aol.com] Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 6:41 PM Subject: RV6-Quickbuild RV-6 Quickbuild with the following options. Sliding Canopy Dual Brake Kit Dual Vent Kit Static Kit Nav 3 strobe kit Single wing landing light kit. Construction barely started. Will need finishing kit. Lycoming 036-A1A and constant speed prop and governor. Engine and prop removed from Starduster ll. Broke throttle cable and put in a plowed field. 30 hrs SCMOH will need crank and crankcase repaired small crack on oil sump, repairable. Prop and governor will need overhaul. $23000.00 for all. Contact Stowe Hoffius @ shoffius(at)aol.com or call 501-751-5049. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "F. Parker Thomas" <parker(at)iname.com>
Subject: tail K1000 wingnuts
Date: Jun 10, 2001
Listers - Loved the recent posts about wives - in particular the one from Austin the poet in TX. I've decided to go in reverse order and acquire the plane first. One does need to get priorities straight. Wings came on Monday. Are the K1000 wingnuts on the rudder supposed to be incredibly tight on the 3/8 bolts? I found a test run before mounting took almost all of my strength to get the bolt more than 3/4 of the way through the nut. I was afraid I was going to strip the nut or the bolt. Also, I can't find any instructions on when to mount the bolts on the rudder, or when to hang the rudder itself on the VS. Am I missing something? For those of you who put a light in the bottom of the rudder, how did you run a wire through the flexible joint? Should I make any preparations to do this before skinning the rudder? Finally, are any of you from the northern California area heading to OSH? Is anyone in need of a copilot (or just some ballast)? Please reply off list. Thanks, Parker RV-8 tail almost finished F. Parker Thomas PO Box 190894 San Francisco, CA 94119 parker(at)iname.com NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ENewton57(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 10, 2001
Subject: Re: tail K1000 wingnuts
In a message dated 6/10/01 7:40:45 PM Central Daylight Time, parker(at)iname.com writes: << Are the K1000 wingnuts on the rudder supposed to be incredibly tight on the 3/8 bolts? I found a test run before mounting took almost all of my strength to get the bolt more than 3/4 of the way through the nut. I was afraid I was going to strip the nut or the bolt.>> Make sure you are using the correct size plate nut. Is it a K1000-6? It is a self locking nut so it should require a wrench to turn the rod end bearing in but it shouldn't take all of your strength. You might want to try some BoLube (a dry lubricant). I have heard of builders running a tap though the platenuts but I personally don't like it as you may lose the locking ability. In this case there is a jam nut so you would probably be alright. << Also, I can't find any instructions on when to mount the bolts on the rudder, or when to hang the rudder itself on the VS. Am I missing something?>> That comes during the final assembly phase. just before you get ready for inspection. If you paint the plane before you fly it, you will want the control surfaces off. I still test fit mine anyway. You will find as you progress further along in the proje ct that there is a lot less "hand holding" in the manual and Vans assumes you know that certain things will be mounted before flying. << For those of you who put a light in the bottom of the rudder, how did you run a wire through the flexible joint? Should I make any preparations to do this before skinning the rudder? >> I think most folks penetrate the vertical stab somewhere near the lower pivot point of the with the wires. They then enter through the fiberglass rudder bottom. Make arrangements for your wires before permanently installing the rudder bottom. Hope this helps. I have a 6A but I think the tails are very similar if not identical to the 8 Eric Newton - Long Beach, Mississippi RV-6A N57ME (Reserved) (Engine Cowling and firewall fwd stuff) http://www.ericsrv6a.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Web site updated: Navaid install pics
Date: Jun 10, 2001
Guys, I finally got around to taking some pics of my Navaid installation. I've just updated my web site with this and some other things: Navaid install.... www.rv-8.com/IdeasProducts.htm New pitot tube and fuel tank leak repair (Yes, horror of horrors, a LEAK)... www.rv-8.com/Wings.htm And of course I can't leave my panel well enough alone so I'm swapping my MicroEncoder for an AITI Air Data Computer... www.rv-8.com/Panel.htm Randy Lervold RV-8, N558RL, hustling to get back in the air for the fly-in this saturday www.rv-8.com Home Wing VAF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: [rv8list] Web site updated: Navaid install pics
Date: Jun 10, 2001
> Randy, thanks for the web updates on your tank leak problem. Maybe you > update the list on the ongoing controversy about prosealing the tanks. How > long have the access covers been in place on your plane? How difficult was > it to get the covers off and clean up the existing proseal. If you were to > do it again, would you still opt for prosealing the access covers? > > Thanks, > > Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com > Plainfield, IL > RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps > Stinson 108-2 N9666K I had completely finished my access covers with the gaskets and Fuel Lube during construction. Then, before mounting them, I chickened out based on all the stories of leaks. Also, Scott McDaniels assured me that getting the covers or the senders off when Prosealed on was no big thing. So befoe mounting the wings I removed the gaskets, cleaned all the Fuel Lube off, and Prosealed them on. No leaks whatsoever. Now the good part, getting them off. It really is no big deal. Just have a sharp chisel and razor blade handy and you can have them off in about ten minutes. Once the parts are separated use the razor blade to get what you can, then use MEK and a rag to get the rest off. It does take a while to clean it up properly, but I have no regrets whatsoever and would recommend this to anyone. Randy Lervold RV-8 N558RL, survived a fuel tank leak and Prosealed inspection covers www.rv-8.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com>
Subject: Mounting the cowling...How thick is the Prop?
Date: Jun 11, 2001
I'm about to mount my cowling, however I will be doing it without the prop being in place. MY QUESTION: Where do I mount the spinner plate so that it will be in the correct position fore-aft for aligning the cowl? Here are the facts: RV-6A, Parallel valve O-360, prop (not bought yet) will be constant speed, almost for sure the typical Hartzell that Van's sells. I've seen it said that you need a 2" spacer in front of the starter gear, and then mount the spinner plate on that. I've also seen it in writing that it should be 2.5", and yet another that says 4". I'm sure that all of these measurements are correct for some engine/prop combination... but which one is mine? Also, I've seen this spacer made out of small pieces of PVC pipe just for this purpose... does this work well and is this the best method? Thanks! Jim Tampa RV-6A N555JN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: insulation
Date: Jun 10, 2001
> I have another question. I have noticed, while > glancing through builders pages, that almost no one > has installed any sort of insulation. What do people > think of the noise level in an RV (with a passive > headset, of course) and what experiences do people > have in cold weather flying? Is sidewall fabric and a > couple of heater muffs acceptable? I am insulating for sound and heat retention. I am using Orcoteck from ACS on my the sides forward of the main spar and on the firewall. I bought the matching tape which I am now using for many other things as it has extremely high tack and the best flammability rating possible. I cut the insulation into small panels and seal them on with tape. All forward side sections have an .025 panel covered with fabric. Under the front floor carpet I have just received a shipment from Becky of their new product. It fits well between the angle stiffners. Supposed to have a great flammability rating. Nothing under the seats, the box should insulate by itself. Next to my elbows I am looking for some 1/2" Temperfoam that I will cover in fabric. Might have some simple lines stiched in. Nothing in the luggage compartment. Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Subject: Re: Mounting the cowling...How thick is the Prop?
jim i need to remove my prop to check for that plug we were talking about, if you need to borrow it to temporarly install on your engine and take measurements, your welcome to it. its the same setup vans sells. scott ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2001
From: phil <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
Subject: Engine sources & cheap lycomings (O-320-H2AD's)
Found this link.... 0-320 H2AD Lycoming Engines 6/8/101 - cores. good logs no prop strikes. $3500 Firm. I have 2 jonnsherryturner(at)msn.com I found this add in the..... http://www.wingsonline.com/engprt.html web site. There was some talk a few months ago on locating cheap lycoming engines. I have tripped over several in the past few months and someone e-mailed me trying to locate a inexpensive Lycoming 320. This URL has MANY engine parts & engines. A properly maintained O-320-H2AD near TBO, and a few hundred hours left on the clock is a ideal engine for one of our RV-'s for someone on a budget (aren't we all). As I stated in a earlier post 3000 to 3500 dollars gets you a decent lycoming, and with a wooden prop your off and loving life. This particular 0-320-H2AD may or may not be the one for you........There are plenty of them out there. This is just one example........ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Are Barstad <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Engine sources & cheap lycomings (O-320-H2AD's)
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Too bad the IO-360 A1B6's doesn't seem to pop up like this... My best scenario so far is US$25,700 for an Aerosport engine. The IO-360 cores are not the easiest to find these days. Are RV-8 Wings > > From: phil <pcondon(at)mitre.org> > Date: 2001/06/11 Mon AM 09:58:14 EDT > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Engine sources & cheap lycomings (O-320-H2AD's) > > > Found this link.... > > 0-320 H2AD Lycoming Engines > > 6/8/101 - cores. good logs no prop strikes. $3500 Firm. I have 2 > jonnsherryturner(at)msn.com > > I found this add in the..... > > http://www.wingsonline.com/engprt.html web site. > > There was some talk a few months ago on locating cheap lycoming > engines. I have tripped over several in the past few months and someone > e-mailed me trying to locate a inexpensive Lycoming 320. This URL has > MANY engine parts & engines. A properly maintained O-320-H2AD near > TBO, and a few hundred hours left on the clock is a ideal engine for one > of our RV-'s for someone on a budget (aren't we all). As I stated in a > earlier post 3000 to 3500 dollars gets you a decent lycoming, and with a > wooden prop your off and loving life. This particular 0-320-H2AD may or > may not be the one for you........There are plenty of them out there. > This is just one example........ > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Subject: RV6 Wanted
From: Anthony J Castellano <tcastella(at)juno.com>
A friend is interested in buying a RV6. He would prefer one that is unpainted and would consider one that is close to completion. However, he would also consider a completed RV6. I guess the ride I gave him in my RV6 impressed him. He owns an Extra 300, so this says a lot for Van's aircraft. Please respond off list or phone me at (845) 227-8527 Tony Castellano tcastella(at)juno.com Hopewell Junction, NY RV-6 N401TC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Subject: Children's headsets
From: "John Allen" <fliier(at)onebox.com>
What we did for our toddler was to take a pair of the cylindrical foam earplugs and squish them down flat until they were little 1/2 inch pancakes. We then took a regular paper hole punch and punched out the center. That center section was used as a small cylindrical ear plug. We cut that in half so that one adult ear plug yielded two childs ear plugs. These would fit in her ears. The problem is that a small expanding piece of foam if swallowed by a child could expand in the throat if swallowed. At that age everything goes in the mouth. To mitigate this we found a small bonnet which tied under her chin and covered her ears, thus preventing her from pulling the foam plugs out. You may also consider connecting the earplugs with heavy thread (button thread?) and attaching the center of the thread to the childs garment in the back. In this way the ear plugs would not reach the mouth. Make sure you give the job of putting the ear plugs in to your wife. Don't fool yourself into thinking that building an airplane has given you the the patience necessary to insert those earplugs into a moving miniature head. Leave that to the experts. As far as taking care of the ears, I never worried about ascents. When coming down I limited the descents to 500 fpm and my wife kept the water bottle in the mouth. My daughter traveled many hours with us when she was just a baby. Disclaimer: The above is intended to convey our experience only, and is not a recommendation. There is a risk of choking when using foam earplugs with small children. John Allen Sign Up Now! http://www.onebox.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Subject: Re: RV Ride in Turbulence
I have flown over the some of the most rugged parts of the Rocky Mountains 4 times going from the Chicago area to Van's to California,twice I had to go over 13,000 ft. to clear peaks east of Visalia and north of Denver and I have never come close to losing control. Any RV has good stability .You will love your RV.Keep on pounding rivets and look torward to one of the greatest joys of your life,owning and flying an RV. Bob Murphy Poplar Grove ILL. (C77) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
"Van's" , "Tom etc" , "RV-List" ,
Subject: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Well I'm at a loss for words (except profanity). After about 3 hours, may a dozen landings (none of which I would consider "hard") the new firewall on one of my RV-4's is buckling again! I can't believe this is not a design flaw. I do not care that Van's says "The firewall is not a structural member" it is important or it would not be there and cosmetic or not it is wrong to have it buckling. I am worried that this will occur with my RV-4 that I built (the one buckling was built by someone else, I bought it and am in the middle of selling it). Can anyone share their thoughts on this re-curing problem. I cannot see this as a rare occurrence, someone should know something with all these RV-4's out there. Chuck P.S. My friend (who is buying the plane) is calling Van's again, I'll let you know what their response is. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2001
From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Canopy Crack
For the archives... another product that professional plastic shops use is called Weldon 5. It works similar to Methylene Chloride. Acts as a welding agent for plexiglass. Use a syringe with a fine needle and will stop a crack dead in it's tracks with no clouding of the canopy. Paul Besing RV-6A 197AB Arizona http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Finishing up ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: insulation
Date: Jun 11, 2001
> > I have another question. I have noticed, while > > glancing through builders pages, that almost no one > > has installed any sort of insulation. What do people > > think of the noise level in an RV (with a passive > > headset, of course) and what experiences do people > > have in cold weather flying? Is sidewall fabric and a > > couple of heater muffs acceptable? > > > I am insulating for sound and heat retention. > > I am using Orcoteck from ACS on my the sides forward of the main spar and on > the firewall. I bought the matching tape which I am now using for many other > things as it has extremely high tack and the best flammability rating > possible. I cut the insulation into small panels and seal them on with tape. > All forward side sections have an .025 panel covered with fabric. > > Under the front floor carpet I have just received a shipment from Becky of > their new product. It fits well between the angle stiffners. Supposed to > have a great flammability rating. > > Nothing under the seats, the box should insulate by itself. > > Next to my elbows I am looking for some 1/2" Temperfoam that I will cover in > fabric. Might have some simple lines stiched in. > > Nothing in the luggage compartment. On the issue of insulation I'd like to offer my own thoughts and experiences. First off, insulating in the right areas with the right insulation DOES work, ie. it reduces noise and heat transfer from the fwf area, if done properly. This in turn simply makes the flying experience more pleasant for you and your passenger. Noise and heat = fatigue. That said there is a downside to insulating: 1) weight, 2) hiding/masking leaks & noises, and 3) the hassle factor when you want to get to something behind the insulation. My RV-8 is definitely noisy, and on a 70 degree day at lower altitudes I can feel heat on my legs from the firewall. Yikes, how would this feel if it were 90 degrees OAT? The noise can be managed to my satisfaction with good headphones, but I'm a little concerned about the heat since I don't tolerate hot climates well. On balance I just don't like gluing and taping things in that will need to come out some day, and which can harbor evidence of leaks or problems underneath. If I have an oil or fuel leak in the fwf area I want to know about it NOW rather than waiting until I have no oil pressure and my engine has seized. So if some oil seeps in through a fitting and can be seen on my cockpit floor then to me this is a safety feature. BTW, you DO look at your cooling air exit area during your preflight to spot evidence of leaks don't you? I've already found two this way. Anyway, for now I am opting not to insulate because the negatives outweigh the positives in my mind, but reserve the right to change my mind. To deal with the heat I'll probably try to design some sort of way to have some vent air exit on my legs just as it comes in the NACA duct on the left fwd fuse area (RV-8). FWIW, Randy Lervold RV-8, N558RL, 33 hrs, right wing back on after tank leak repair www.rv-8.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pat_hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Electric Flaps - Installing the WD-613EF assembly
Date: Jun 11, 2001
I also went with option 2, did not see where it really mattered which side the bearing block was on. Pat Hatch RV-4, N17PH @ VRB, 700 hours TT O-320, Hartzell C/S RV-6, Fuselage O-360, Hartzell C/S > > I did options 2 and 4. I really couldn't see where it made any difference > which side off center the bearing block was. I was a little nervous about > how stiff the whole thing was and e-mailed support about that and the wrong > side bearing issue. Their reply was: don't worry about it. It will wear in > and get looser. There was no comment about the non-powdercoated area being > on the right side. My guess is that their supplier made a whole batch of > them wrong and that they're ignoring the issue until that batch is gone. > Ed Holyoke > 6QB > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jdnewsum" <jdnewsum(at)qwest.net> > To: "Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com" > Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 3:36 PM > Subject: RV-List: Electric Flaps - Installing the WD-613EF assembly > > > > > > Question for RV6 Quick Builders: > > > > I am in the process of installing the electric flaps in my RV6-QB. On the > > WD-613EF received in my kit, the location that was masked off free of > powder > > coat for the F-680 Bearing Block is on the right side. The plans, all the > > pictures in the manual and the Orndorff video, all show the F-680 located > on > > the left side of the baggage area (left side of the WD-613A arm that > > attaches to the electric actuator). Yes, I have confirmed that the > WD-613EF > > is in the correct orientation. Have any other RV6 quick builders > encountered > > this anomaly? I would guess my options are - > > > > Option 1 - Remove the powder coat on the left side where the F-680 goes > and > > install per plans. > > Option 2 - Install the F-680 on the right side where the powder coat was > > left off. (Might not be a good idea because the electric actuator appears > to > > extend and retract at a slight angle and maybe more support is required on > > the left side). > > Option 3 - Get another F-680 and install one on both sides (belt and > > suspenders approach). > > Option 4 - Call Vans for advice. > > > > Any feedback, comments or suggestions would be appreciated. > > > > Dave Newsum ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WFACT01(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Subject: Re: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
CHUCK-ON THE EARLY RV-4 THE STEEL CORNER BRACES BEHIND THE FIREWALL WHERE LIGHT METAL-MUCH THICKER IN LATER YEARS-TOM Thomas M. Whelan Whelan Farms Airport Post Office Box 426 249 Hard Hill Road North Bethlehem, CT 06751 PH 203-266-5300 FAX 203-266-5140 e-mail wfact01(at)aol.com EAA Chapter 1097, President RV-8 IO-540 LYC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Fuse accessability
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Fellow Listers: The way I have constructed my electrical control panel in my -4 does not really allow the fuses to be accessible in flight. They can be changed by unscrewing off the front panel of the control box on the RHS of the cockpit. Does the FAA require these fuses (or they could be CBs) to be readily accessible in flight to meet requirements of the airworthiness inspection. Really hate to change this configuration at this late date in the construction process. Doug ================ Doug Weiler Hudson, WI 715-386-1239 dougweil(at)pressenter.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Web site updated: Navaid install pics, fuel leak
Date: Jun 11, 2001
I had a terrible leak when I put fuel in the left wing for the first time two days ago. It was leaking out from around the gasket, and I could slow it by pushing in the right place on the access plate. There was no way that I could tighten those #8 screws tight enough to stop the leak without camming out the screws. I drained the fuel from the tank, relubed the gasket with fuel lube, and installed hex head screws and washers as Randy did. There are no leaks at this time. If it does begin to leak, I guess I'll have to break down and put that nasty proseal in there. Jerry Carter Engine started, inspection next Tuesday! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 6:53 PM Subject: RV-List: Web site updated: Navaid install pics > > Guys, > > I finally got around to taking some pics of my Navaid installation. I've > just updated my web site with this and some other things: > > Navaid install.... > www.rv-8.com/IdeasProducts.htm > > New pitot tube and fuel tank leak repair (Yes, horror of horrors, a LEAK)... > www.rv-8.com/Wings.htm > > And of course I can't leave my panel well enough alone so I'm swapping my > MicroEncoder for an AITI Air Data Computer... > www.rv-8.com/Panel.htm > > > Randy Lervold > RV-8, N558RL, hustling to get back in the air for the fly-in this saturday > www.rv-8.com > Home Wing VAF > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2001
From: Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Paint Booth Venting
Tedd, As a few other listers have stated, be sure you have enough incoming air as not to cause a negative atmosphere in your booth. You'll be able to find every crack, opening, and nail hole in your garage if you don't have at least neutral pressure. Filtering your incoming air is the most important. In your case, using HVAC filters is the cheapest and will work fine for the amount of priming you'll be doing at one time. I'd recommend that you tape several together with duct tape so that you have at least 12 sq. ft. of intake surface area for your booth. Make a plenum out of cardboard and connect your box fan to it. Now you have filtered pressure. Probably give you 2-5" depending on the fan. Do the same area of filters or larger on the exhaust side and viola! The best would be use a fan on the exhaust side also. Run the intake on high and the exhaust on medium. Jim Duckett changing to RV-7 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pat_hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Chuck, Gee, I'm at a loss here. Can't imagine what could be causing this, if I had to guess I would say a broken engine mount that is transferring stress to the firewall, but I am sure you have checked this. I have been flying my RV-4 for eleven years now and I have not seen or heard of this problem--and not all my landings have been perfect! This is probably impractical but I wonder if changing your engine mount would have any effect, it sure sounds like it is engine-mount related. Pat Hatch RV-4, N17PH @ VRB, 700 hours TT O-320, Hartzell C/S RV-6, Fuselage O-360, Hartzell C/S > > Well I'm at a loss for words (except profanity). After about 3 hours, > may a dozen landings (none of which I would consider "hard") the new > firewall on one of my RV-4's is buckling again! I can't believe this is > not a design flaw. I do not care that Van's says "The firewall is not a > structural member" it is important or it would not be there and cosmetic or > not it is wrong to have it buckling. I am worried that this will occur with > my RV-4 that I built (the one buckling was built by someone else, I bought > it and am in the middle of selling it). Can anyone share their thoughts on > this re-curing problem. I cannot see this as a rare occurrence, someone > should know something with all these RV-4's out there. > > > Chuck > > P.S. My friend (who is buying the plane) is calling Van's again, I'll let > you know what their response is. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com>
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Subject: HS603 / HS 606 Cut Outs
I'm building an RV7 which has much of the same empennage construction as the RV6 and RV8 (and probably RV4 for that matter). The plans show an area cut out of the HS603 (rear spar channel) to provide clearance for the elevator control horns at full down elevator position. The dimension for the cutout given is 1 inch long by .6 inches wide per side. Are most builders cutting this out before making up the rear spar (seems easier to do now) or waiting to fit and cut during final aircraft assembly? Also, the tip rib (HS606) shows some material removal to allow for the fiberglass tip. After measuring my tips and measuring the HS601's (skin), it doesn't look like I'll have to remove any material at all. Has anyone found that they needed to trim HS606 tip rib? It doesn't look like this could be done after the skins have been riveted on the skeleton. So if this needs to be done, it should be done prior to assembly. Right? I've researched the archieves, but don't see too much on this topic. At least not enough to satisfy my question. Having a great time building the HS! Ellis McGaughy (mcgaughy(at)eastlink.net) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Mounting the cowling...How thick is the Prop?
Date: Jun 11, 2001
>From: "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com> > I'm about to mount my cowling, however I will be doing it without the prop > being in place. MY QUESTION: Where do I mount the spinner plate so that it > will be in the correct position fore-aft for aligning the cowl? Jim, Here is a re-print of something I wrote in March. Ross O-360 (new) Hartzell CS prop ---- From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Spinner Fitting Date: Mar 16, 2001 I have been fitting my spinner and cowl on my RV-6A O360/ Hartzell C/S Prop and have a few observations and suggestions. Since the cowl has to come off and on many times, I chose not to have my pretty new prop on while I fit the cowl. This meant that I needed to know all the spacings to get an accurate jig built. I spoke to Van's tech support and they use a 2 1/4" spacer. This is the size of the spacer block they sell to those installing a fixed pitch prop. After much measuring I have concluded that this is 1/16" to much and only works if you have not installed the reinforcement ring to the spinner backplate. If you have, it is 1/8" to much. The measured distance between the surface of the prop that mates with the engine to the base of the bolts that attach the spinner backplate on is 2.5". Vans calls for the insertion of the 1/4" spacer and one 1/16" washer on these bolts before the backplate is put on.. There has been a lot of discussion as to the adequacy of this distance in giving clearance between the prop and the backplate. I am satisfied that by ensuring that my backplate is flat and not dished and using the 1/4" spacer and one 1/16" washer the prop will not hit the backplate in any flight condition I will find myself in. i.e. the prop will never encounter a full coarse setting. I made the mistake of modifying my backplate by cutting out the center and riveting the reinforcement ring on prior to using it to fit my cowl. This meant that I had to attach a piece of wood to it so I could bolt it onto the engine. I would recommend to not do this. Since I had the backplate attached to a piece of wood, I cut a slot in the wood so I could slide a ruler through it to the engine for measurement purposes. I bought two 1/2" X 2 1/2" bolts and 12 washers that are the same thread as the prop bolts. I made spacers out of wood to fill some of the gap and then the proper number of washers so the forward face of the spinner backplate (that will bolt to the prop) was 2 3/16" from the engine (2 8/16 total distance minus the 4/16" spacer minus the 1/16" washer) Since the gap between the spinner backplate and the cowl should be between 1/8" and 1/4", I removed one of the 1/8" washers I was using for spacers. The forward edge of the spinner backplate is now 2 1/16" from the engine. Now I can clamp the cowl directly onto the spinner backplate to get my cutline for the back of the cowl. This is the stage I am at now. I plan on getting the cowl fit in this manner and then install my prop as a final check before I drill the cowl to the hinges. Ross Mickey 6A N9PT reserved - ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: RV's in Turbulance
Date: Jun 11, 2001
I think my post regarding the extreme turbulence I encountered in my RV6A is being misunderstood....I think the RV6A is as good as any other plane (perhaps better) in the turbulence you may encounter. What I ran into was turbulence that was beyond extreme...a fellow in a Cessna 182 followed me though that same area about 20-minutes later and he lost control also...it isn't that the airplane can't be steered, its just that the air currents were so violent that the plane was simply being thrown around...and I mean that literally. It think it a tribute to the RV design that no structural damage was done, it was that furious. John RV6A Salida, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: insulation
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Randy; My RV isn't flying yet, but I've had an insulation blanket covering the entire firewall of my Kitfox for the past five years with no ill effects. I've had no fuel or oil leaks from the engine compartment, but have had several coolant leaks (something we RVers {with Lycs of course} don't have to worry about}. I was able to identify the leaks despite the insulation blanket. For some reason they designed the blanket to fit on the engine side of the firewall. That of course makes it easy to identify any leaks aft of the firewall, but makes for a messy blanket when there are leaks. I intend to insulate at least my firewall, and maybe even the forward fuselage section. I'll just cut out those chocolate pies my wife makes and loose a couple of pounds, although both you and I are about down to our fighting weight. See you at Scappoose, wx permitting. Mike Robbins RV8Q 80591 almost finished with wiring Seattle area ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy Lervold <randy@rv-8.com> > > > On the issue of insulation I'd like to offer my own thoughts and > experiences. First off, insulating in the right areas with the right > insulation DOES work, ie. it reduces noise and heat transfer from the fwf > area, if done properly. This in turn simply makes the flying experience more > pleasant for you and your passenger. Noise and heat = fatigue. > > That said there is a downside to insulating: 1) weight, 2) hiding/masking > leaks & noises, and 3) the hassle factor when you want to get to something > behind the insulation. My RV-8 is definitely noisy, and on a 70 degree day > at lower altitudes I can feel heat on my legs from the firewall. Yikes, how > would this feel if it were 90 degrees OAT? The noise can be managed to my > satisfaction with good headphones, but I'm a little concerned about the heat > since I don't tolerate hot climates well. On balance I just don't like > gluing and taping things in that will need to come out some day, and which > can harbor evidence of leaks or problems underneath. If I have an oil or > fuel leak in the fwf area I want to know about it NOW rather than waiting > until I have no oil pressure and my engine has seized. So if some oil seeps > in through a fitting and can be seen on my cockpit floor then to me this is > a safety feature. BTW, you DO look at your cooling air exit area during your > preflight to spot evidence of leaks don't you? I've already found two this > way. > > Anyway, for now I am opting not to insulate because the negatives outweigh > the positives in my mind, but reserve the right to change my mind. To deal > with the heat I'll probably try to design some sort of way to have some vent > air exit on my legs just as it comes in the NACA duct on the left fwd fuse > area (RV-8). > > FWIW, > Randy Lervold > RV-8, N558RL, 33 hrs, right wing back on after tank leak repair > www.rv-8.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2001
From: Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com>
Subject: RE: [rv8list] oil temp control
Here is a link to the product: http://www.jcwhitney.com/productnoitem.jhtml?CATID=5217&BQ=jcw2 -Bill VonDane Colorado Springs, CO RV-8A - N8VD http://vondane.com/rv8a/ mailto:bill(at)vondane.com -----Original Message----- From: Brian Denk [mailto:akroguy(at)hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [rv8list] oil temp control >Listers, Just thought I'd pass on a cure for high oil temps that worked >for >me. On the warmer days around here(central Cal) my oiltemps werein the >220-230 range on climb out. I have an Positech oil cooler but this hasn't >been able to control the temp. After climb out it would eventually work >back >down to 210 or so but it took a long time. Worried about flying on the >hotter days I searched for a solution. Someone mentioned that the JC >Whitney >catalog had an iten called a Cool Collar that might work. It's an aluminum >heat sink that fits around the oil filter and is held on with a hose clamp. >Costs $17.95 plus S&H. welll, I was willing to try anything and this >seemed >to be 1. cheap and 2. seemed like a good idea and 3. it was easy. I went 1 >step further and ran a 1-1/2 " scat tube to it(i wanted this to work). So >did it work?? You bet it did. Flew it today and after max climb to 7500' >the >temp stayed below 200 but it was a cool day today 75 at sea level. So I >flew >over to Bakersfield where the temp was around 95 and repeated the test. >Hard >climb to 8500' and temp got a little over 210 but once I leveled off the >temp >dropped to about 180 very quickly. I am a happy camper and no longer >worried >about the midwest temps on the trip to OSH. >It might even be a little to cool. > >Bill Grimm >N658BG >149 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2001
From: Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com>
Subject: 2 1/4" attitude indicator...
I know somebody was looking for a small attitude indicator.....Not sure if this is any good, but... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1606166549 -Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2001
From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
Subject: insulation
We did some experimenting on the -6 airframe and this should apply to the -7. My 'craft has an IO-540 with a pair of 3-1 stacks, so it is noisier than most other -6's. The pipes angle downward but are not curved downward. My inlet to exhaust area ratio for the cowling is such that I should be getting a (slight) suction effect from the exhaust outlet, helping to cool the firewall. (For educational purposes, investigate how they designed the radiator cooling inlet/outlet for the P-51). 1. slider canopy skirt needs a "snug" fit all around--use tape/weatherstripping, as necessary. Don't know about tip-ups. 2. floor area--most decrease in noise with thick, but loosely packed insulation from the firewall to the baggage area. Do a flame test on any insulation you use--no matter what the ads say. Even if it doesn't flame up, toxic smoke can kill you faster than fire. 3. firewall--no noticeable noise/heat decrease with firewall insulation--taken off. 4. sidewalls--no noise decrease with insulation here--just got in the way. 5. theoretically, a thicker canopy (without any significant weight gain) would also be helpfull. Or, possibly an optically clear, dense but thin elastomeric coating. If you're going to measure decibel levels in you cockpit, be aware of several auditory tricks. A young person with good hearing can tell a difference in sound increase/decrease at around 3 dB. This corresponds to a "doubling" of sound output "power" (watts). People that have been in the military, heavy industry, flying for a lot of years or over 40 y/old may not notice any sound level difference untill 4,5 or 6 dB! At 10 dB, most people will say "that sounds twice as loud as the other sound". As people age, the lowest and highest frequencies are the first to go (so hold off on that 20-20,000 Hz stereo system, you'll be paying for sound you can't hear--(try it on your system if you have a frequency analyzer/equalizer). Also, human hearing is most sensitive around 3 kHz (2-4 kHz, bell curve), so if you're annoyed at sound, check those frequencies first. The auditory nerve also fatiques fairly quickly--meaning that the same sound level will appear to be less and less after about 10-15 minutes and it takes 30-60' minutes in a quiet environment to recover, during which time you should notice a "ringing", tinnitus, in your ears. So, do your noise testing in short, periodic sessions. Prolonged exposure to loud noise can inhibit hearing for over 24 hrs. Threshold of hearing pain is usually listed around 135-140 dB and an unmufflered GA aircraft/jet can produce up 200 dB on take-off power--depending on your proximity. Boyd Braem ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Subject: Re: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
are you sure the failure is a firewall problem? could it have been built incorrectly. in other words, some structural bolts to longeron missing? just get some other rv 4 builder to look at it very closely. scott tampa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Im7shannon(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Subject: Mike Seager
Anyone know where Mike Seager is? I sent him an email and a phone message last week- no reply. Also, Insurance guy says Jerry Vangrunsven can do a checkride, anyone have a number for him? Kevin -9A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2001
From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
Subject: FWF metal stop nuts
Today I started prepping my baby for its annual inspection--basically, tearing it apart into thousands of pieces. In the process, I noted that a metal stop nut (MS21042) had broken its Torque Seal line and allowed the Adell clamp holding the wiring harness for my Bendix mag to slip down on the engine mount tube and to rub against a nearby SCAT hose. The outside coating of the spark plug wire was worn down to the shield in one very small spot and there was reciprocal wear on the SCAT hose to the inside metal wire. I know that current "acceptable practice" allows FWF metal stop nuts, but after tommorrow I will have no FWF nuts withhout either a safety wire or a cotter, and, if not possible for those options, Locktite. As an added measure, since I just bought a couple hundred Nyloc nuts, I will not be re-using them--one time only! It's possible that I did not torque the metal stop nut in question properly. But, if they were cotter pinned they wouldn't have slipped. But my ego would rather blame the nut than myself. With the way that I fly, I need all the mechanical safety I can get. Boyd Braem ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Yes it was built properly, completely, nothing missing nor out of alignment (I've built one & am building one). Although we may fly it up and have Van look at it. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 4:17 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling**** > > are you sure the failure is a firewall problem? could it have been built > incorrectly. in other words, some structural bolts to longeron missing? > just get some other rv 4 builder to look at it very closely. > scott > tampa > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: Re: 2 1/4" attitude indicator...
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Looks great, but how the heck would you supply 115 vac, I gave away a 24 volt HSI because I didn't think I wanted the hassle to rig up a 24 volt system for it. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Pat, That's exactly what me & Tom are thinking (engine mount related). We are planning to fly her up and let father Van and his team have a look see. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: pat_hatch <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 1:55 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling**** > > Chuck, > > Gee, I'm at a loss here. Can't imagine what could be causing this, if I had > to guess I would say a broken engine mount that is transferring stress to > the firewall, but I am sure you have checked this. I have been flying my > RV-4 for eleven years now and I have not seen or heard of this problem--and > not all my landings have been perfect! > > This is probably impractical but I wonder if changing your engine mount > would have any effect, it sure sounds like it is engine-mount related. > > Pat Hatch > RV-4, N17PH @ VRB, 700 hours TT > O-320, Hartzell C/S > RV-6, Fuselage > O-360, Hartzell C/S > > > > > > Well I'm at a loss for words (except profanity). After about 3 > hours, > > may a dozen landings (none of which I would consider "hard") the new > > firewall on one of my RV-4's is buckling again! I can't believe this is > > not a design flaw. I do not care that Van's says "The firewall is not a > > structural member" it is important or it would not be there and cosmetic > or > > not it is wrong to have it buckling. I am worried that this will occur > with > > my RV-4 that I built (the one buckling was built by someone else, I bought > > it and am in the middle of selling it). Can anyone share their thoughts > on > > this re-curing problem. I cannot see this as a rare occurrence, someone > > should know something with all these RV-4's out there. > > > > > > Chuck > > > > P.S. My friend (who is buying the plane) is calling Van's again, I'll let > > you know what their response is. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Tom, This RV-4 is serial number 3786... What number or year did they make the thicker corner braces? Thanks for your comments. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: <WFACT01(at)aol.com> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 12:09 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling**** > > CHUCK-ON THE EARLY RV-4 THE STEEL CORNER BRACES BEHIND THE FIREWALL WHERE > LIGHT METAL-MUCH THICKER IN LATER YEARS-TOM > > Thomas M. Whelan > > Whelan Farms Airport > Post Office Box 426 > 249 Hard Hill Road North > Bethlehem, CT 06751 > > PH 203-266-5300 > FAX 203-266-5140 > e-mail wfact01(at)aol.com > > EAA Chapter 1097, President > RV-8 IO-540 LYC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Richard, Thanks for your thoughts, I will contact Gordon too. We talked with Scott at Van's and we are tentatively scheduled to fly up there next Monday so Van and his tech pros can look at her. I sure hope they say "Oh there's the problem, we'll just replace the _____ and give a loaner RV-8 for the week. And since you've expended all this time, stress and energy we'll reimburse you for your fuel, lodging, etc.." (Yea, right and some dancing girls would be nice too). I let you guys and gals know how it turns out. Thanks again, Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Sipp <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 1:32 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling**** > > > > Well I'm at a loss for words (except profanity). After about 3 > hours, > > > Chuck, I feel your pain and you must be frustrated. > > For what it is worth, my RV4 with 220 hours and a few landings I am not > proud of shows no evidence of buckeling. It does have the heavier later > style engine mount brackets inside the fuselage. I don't remember if you > said you had those or were installing them with the firewall replacement. > > You may want to contact Gordon Comfort (gcomfo(at)tc3net.com). He had a minor > buckeling problem which he repaired. He would have some good advice. > > Dick Sipp > RV4 250DS > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TCN44257(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Subject: Re: 2 1/4" attitude indicator...
The indicator is more than likely 3 phase 115 volt 400 Hertz. That is a common power supply used in military instruments. Karl Rigdon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2001
From: Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
I'm not sure how the RV-4 is built, but on the RV-3 two center engine mount attach points were added (on the RV-4 they meet with the tilted rudder "box" in the firewall). On the cockpit side angles run diagonally from there to the main wing spar between your legs? I totally missed this on my RV-3 plans and would have omitted these if I hadn't seen Alan Tolle's RV-3. Is there a drawing of the engine mount in the plans? Have you compared the mount to the plans? Any missing tubes? It's got to be something glaringly gross. On the other hand, I managed to bend one of my landing gear legs stalling from maybe 20 - 30' in the air -- too proud to add throttle. It didn't feel terribly hard to me -- I guess most of the impact were absorbed by the gear legs. Finn Chuck Rabaut wrote: > > Well I'm at a loss for words (except profanity). After about 3 hours, > may a dozen landings (none of which I would consider "hard") the new > firewall on one of my RV-4's is buckling again! I can't believe this is > not a design flaw. I do not care that Van's says "The firewall is not a > structural member" it is important or it would not be there and cosmetic or > not it is wrong to have it buckling. I am worried that this will occur with > my RV-4 that I built (the one buckling was built by someone else, I bought > it and am in the middle of selling it). Can anyone share their thoughts on > this re-curing problem. I cannot see this as a rare occurrence, someone > should know something with all these RV-4's out there. > > Chuck NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
Date: Jun 11, 2001
> On the other hand, I managed to bend one of my landing gear legs stalling from > maybe 20 - 30' in the air -- too proud to add throttle. It didn't feel terribly > hard to me -- I guess most of the impact were absorbed by the gear legs. 20 - 30 FEET ?? Did you end up any shorter? Guess you are carrier qualified now. May all your landing be somewhat better than that one. :-) Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: HS603 / HS 606 Cut Outs
Date: Jun 11, 2001
>The plans show an area > cut out of the HS603 (rear spar channel) to provide clearance for the > elevator control horns at full down elevator position. The dimension for > the cutout given is 1 inch long by .6 inches wide per side. Are most > builders cutting this out before making up the rear spar (seems easier to > do now) or waiting to fit and cut during final aircraft assembly? I did not cut out this yet, but should have. It is in the open and can be done later. > Also, the tip rib (HS606) shows some material removal to allow for the > fiberglass tip. After measuring my tips and measuring the HS601's (skin), > it doesn't look like I'll have to remove any material at all. Has anyone > found that they needed to trim HS606 tip rib? It doesn't look like this > could be done after the skins have been riveted on the skeleton. So if > this needs to be done, it should be done prior to assembly. Right? Right, it should be done now because of not being able to get to it after riveting on the skin. Will it actually be needed? That is another question and I don't have the answer for it at this time. Larry in Indiana, working on the empennage. N747LH reserved. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 3:00 PM Subject: RV-List: HS603 / HS 606 Cut Outs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Subject: Re: RV4-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 06/07/01
From: sdrivers(at)juno.com
Please send details of your RV4 for sale. Include the location. SSD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Subject: Re: RV4-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 06/07/01
From: sdrivers(at)juno.com
Please send details of your RV4 for sale. Include the location. SSD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WFACT01(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Subject: Re: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
CHUCK-I AM NOT SURE MY # WAS 1259 AND HAD THE WEAK MOUNTS IN THE KIT-THE BOTTOM WERE CRACKING BECAUSE OF LANDING GEAR AND BUCKLING THE LOWER FIREWALL-TOM Thomas M. Whelan Whelan Farms Airport Post Office Box 426 249 Hard Hill Road North Bethlehem, CT 06751 PH 203-266-5300 FAX 203-266-5140 e-mail wfact01(at)aol.com EAA Chapter 1097, President RV-8 IO-540 LYC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WFACT01(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Subject: Re: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
CHUCK-I WOULD BE REAL CAREFUL FLYING THAT-TOM Thomas M. Whelan Whelan Farms Airport Post Office Box 426 249 Hard Hill Road North Bethlehem, CT 06751 PH 203-266-5300 FAX 203-266-5140 e-mail wfact01(at)aol.com EAA Chapter 1097, President RV-8 IO-540 LYC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2001
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Fuse accessability
> >Fellow Listers: > >The way I have constructed my electrical control panel in my -4 does not >really allow the fuses to be accessible in flight. They can be changed by >unscrewing off the front panel of the control box on the RHS of the cockpit. >Does the FAA require these fuses (or they could be CBs) to be readily >accessible in flight to meet requirements of the airworthiness inspection. >Really hate to change this configuration at this late date in the >construction process. > >Doug Doug, If the FAA gives you a hard time, point them at the FAR 23 requirements for fuse installations. We don't have to follow F AR 23, but if it is good enough for type certificated aircraft, it should be good enough for homebuilts. FAR 23.1357 Circuit protective devices. (d) If the ability to reset a circuit breaker or replace a fuse is essential to safety in flight, that circuit breaker or fuse must be so located and identified that it can be readily reset or replaced in flight. (e) For fuses identified as replaceable in flight-- (1) There must be one spare of each rating or 50 percent spare fuses of each rating, whichever is greater; and (2) The spare fuse(s) must be readily accessible to any required pilot. So, you only need to be able to get at fuses if the ability to replace them is essential to safety. If you have any pieces of equipment that are absolutely critical to the safe completion of the flight, you had better have two of them, with separate power supplies, because the piece of equipment could fail. I can't think of any single piece of electrically powered equipment that most light aircraft have that is "essential to safety in flight". Take care, -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: HS603 / HS 606 Cut Outs
Date: Jun 11, 2001
I did not cut any of the areas you mentioned. The HS603 can be cut just as easily after the skins are on and you still have to use the same technique, in my case: dremel tool with a cutting disc. I rather do this after I see how much I need to cut. I think milage can vary depending on exact elevator horn installation. The tip ribs? They definitely has to be cut before assembly IF they need to be cut. I also measured mine and found that the entire fiberglass 'tip flange' will fit without cutting so I left it. In both cases: No need to cut away metal from ribs or spars if it isn't necessary. Just my opinion of course... Are RV-8 Wings -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ellis H Mcgaughy Sent: June 11, 2001 3:01 PM Subject: RV-List: HS603 / HS 606 Cut Outs I'm building an RV7 which has much of the same empennage construction as the RV6 and RV8 (and probably RV4 for that matter). The plans show an area cut out of the HS603 (rear spar channel) to provide clearance for the elevator control horns at full down elevator position. The dimension for the cutout given is 1 inch long by .6 inches wide per side. Are most builders cutting this out before making up the rear spar (seems easier to do now) or waiting to fit and cut during final aircraft assembly? Also, the tip rib (HS606) shows some material removal to allow for the fiberglass tip. After measuring my tips and measuring the HS601's (skin), it doesn't look like I'll have to remove any material at all. Has anyone found that they needed to trim HS606 tip rib? It doesn't look like this could be done after the skins have been riveted on the skeleton. So if this needs to be done, it should be done prior to assembly. Right? I've researched the archieves, but don't see too much on this topic. At least not enough to satisfy my question. Having a great time building the HS! Ellis McGaughy (mcgaughy(at)eastlink.net) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince" <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
Subject: Boost Pump
Date: Jun 11, 2001
I was working on my fuselage and looking at the location for the AFP boost pump that Van's shows. I'm not real thrilled about high pressure fuel in the cockpit. Do you guys think that there would be a problem putting the pump on the forward side of the firewall with a shroud and a blast tube? The mechanical fuel pump survives up there. Vince Welch RV-8A Fuselage Roaming Shores, Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2001
From: Steve Prull <sprull(at)bendcable.com>
Subject: Update:RV8 Empennage for sale
The RV8 empennage is still for sale - but I'm open on the price. I placed $2200 in the previous ad, not having any idea of what such things go for, and hoping to get something for my labor. On the other hand, perhaps I'm dreaming :-) , so I'll just say "Best Offer" Steve Prull Bend, OR 541-383-8277 sprull(at)bendcable.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2001
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: tail K1000 wingnuts
When you run your wire for the rudder light, try to have the holes offset about 6 inches. That way the wire is not being bent back and forth with rudder movement instead it's being twisted over that 6" length and should last a lot longer. Dave RV6 > > << For those of you who put a light in the bottom of the rudder, how did you > run a wire through the flexible joint? Should I make any preparations to do > this before skinning the rudder? >> > > I think most folks penetrate the vertical stab somewhere near the lower pivot > point of the with the wires. They then enter through the fiberglass rudder > bottom. Make arrangements for your wires before permanently installing the > rudder bottom. > Hope this helps. I have a 6A but I think the tails are very similar if not > identical to the 8 > > Eric Newton - Long Beach, Mississippi > RV-6A N57ME (Reserved) (Engine Cowling and firewall fwd stuff) > http://www.ericsrv6a.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WCruiser1(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 2001
Subject: RV8 Wing Kit for Sale
Gentlemen, While I have purchased an RV8 wing kit, (unstarted) I recently realized an opportunity to purchase a quick build kit which will expedite my building process. As such, I now have a clean RV8 wing kit for sale in Ohio. The kit sells for $5000 new I'll eat 20% and my freight from Oregon, so $4,000 and it's yours. That'll buy a lot of instruments. Gary Gembala Wcruiser1(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: Re: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Finn, You stalled it from 20-30 feet and it didn't buckle your firewall... Can you build me a firewall? (just kiddin'). Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: RV4-List: Re: RV4-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 06/07/01
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Would someone, anyone, Please sell this guy an RV-4.... ----- Original Message ----- From: <sdrivers(at)juno.com> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 7:50 PM Subject: RV4-List: Re: RV4-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 06/07/01 > --> RV4-List message posted by: sdrivers(at)juno.com > > Please send details of your RV4 for sale. Include the location. > SSD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer(at)mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Engine sources & cheap lycomings (O-320-H2AD's)
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Forget the H2AD, shoehorn one of these babies in there! Hmmm, makes any new or used O-320 seem a bit overpriced! This is from the http://www.wingsonline.com/engprt.html web site: Pratt & Whitney R 2800-52W (CB-16) 6/9/101 - P&W R 2800-52W(CB-16) TSO 380 HRS. Tested and ready to fly. Will convert to a CB-3 at no cost. $ 16,000.00 outright. Frank (305)386-4912 FRANK (305) 386-4912 fjardois(at)herald.infi.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Melvinke(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 2001
Subject: Re: RV4-List: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
This not uncommonly indicates cracked weldments at the junction of the lower longerons and the firewall. Devil of a job to expose them, but careful inspection from inside may reveal the problem. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 2001
Subject: Re: avionics
In a message dated 6/11/01 5:13:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rhdudley(at)att.net writes: << Just talked to John Stark and was very impressed with his prices. Do you now have experience in purchasing from him? >> I'm not Rick but since you asked about John Stark I have to toss my $0.02 in. I have recently purchased a GPS 195 from John and came away with the firm belief that John is one of the most honest guys around AND offers the lowest prices I was quoted anywhere on Garmin stuff. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, finish kit stuff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Jones" <gratech(at)a1.com.au>
Subject: RV6-(Quickbuild) Wanted
Date: Jun 12, 2001
Posting this for a friend not on the list..... Are there any Aussie RV listers aware of what amounts to a 6 kit (or 6A) that is either a QB or complete almost to the point of a QB that is stopped and is or may be available for reasonable dollars? We are located in Victoria so the Eastern states are easily accessed.... WA and Tassie are not impossible but it would have to be a pretty certain proposition to warrant the trip costs. We have an Empennage available so a set of Wings, the Fuse and a Finishing Kit are what is needed. (They could come from several sources.) Thanks in Advance Graham Jones Kilmore 6A Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 2001
From: Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Updating a Garmin 195
--- Jerry Springer wrote: [snip] > the gps with out the battery bracket. Worked great, now if I can just find a > cheap place to buy the updates. :) > > Thanks to all that responded with suggestions. > > Jerry Springer Check out http://www.ebay.com for DB updates. Current DBs, and a couple cycles back, for significant discounts. ==== Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 2001
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Boost Pump
--- Vince wrote: > > I was working on my fuselage and looking at the location for the AFP > boost pump that Van's shows. I'm not real thrilled about high > pressure fuel in the cockpit. Do you guys think that there would be > a problem putting the pump on the forward side of the firewall with a > shroud and a blast tube? The mechanical fuel pump survives up there. > > Vince Welch Vince, I'm trying to keep _all_ that fuel stuff out of the engine compartment - boost pump, gascolator... Won't a wing root location work on the -8? Check the archives for pics and descriptions. Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Firewall Forward ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 2001
From: Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylorelectric.com>
Subject: Re: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
My-4 is 3919 and I got first kit (empannage) in 3-95. Carroll Bird Chuck Rabaut wrote: > > Tom, > > This RV-4 is serial number 3786... What number or year did they make > the thicker corner braces? Thanks for your comments. > > Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <WFACT01(at)aol.com> > To: > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 12:09 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling**** > > > > > CHUCK-ON THE EARLY RV-4 THE STEEL CORNER BRACES BEHIND THE FIREWALL WHERE > > LIGHT METAL-MUCH THICKER IN LATER YEARS-TOM > > > > Thomas M. Whelan > > > > Whelan Farms Airport > > Post Office Box 426 > > 249 Hard Hill Road North > > Bethlehem, CT 06751 > > > > PH 203-266-5300 > > FAX 203-266-5140 > > e-mail wfact01(at)aol.com > > > > EAA Chapter 1097, President > > RV-8 IO-540 LYC > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
Date: Jun 12, 2001
I would definitely do that if possible. That is if they remember how RV-4's are put together. An RV-4 is nothing but a HR kit in Van's eyes. -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA Network Adminstrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 "Fear of failure is only for the weak and arrogant, for those who foolishly think that somehow they can achieve success without paying the price." -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Rabaut [mailto:crabaut(at)coalinga.com] Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 2:52 PM Subject: Fw: RV-List: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling**** Yes it was built properly, completely, nothing missing nor out of alignment (I've built one & am building one). Although we may fly it up and have Van look at it. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 4:17 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling**** > > are you sure the failure is a firewall problem? could it have been built > incorrectly. in other words, some structural bolts to longeron missing? > just get some other rv 4 builder to look at it very closely. > scott > tampa > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
Subject: buckling firewall and empennage jig
Date: Jun 12, 2001
FWIW, my RV-4 had a problem with the firewall oil canning. It eventually developed what I would call a buckle. I had the heavy weldements, which were standard after about 1994. I have heard and seen many RV-4's having similar problems. No, I don't believe the buckling is necessarily caused by building errors. I think the motor mount flexes a lot on landing.... which is why cracks in the lower gear leg socket area is not unheard of either! FOR YOU NEWBIE EMPENNAGE BUILDERS: Sorry for shouting.... I just felt the urge. Click on the link below and scroll down just a little. You'll find a drawing and description of how I built my empennage. I've built 4 RV empennages now so I know this works. Take a look. No insult intended to newbies... we're all virgins once. My site is mostly for Harmon Rocket stuff, but it's nearly identical to the RV stuff..... duh, no surprise there! http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/Construction%20Notes.htm <<<<< link to the general construction notes stuff http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/elevator%20jigging.jpg <<<<<<<http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html <---- note: new URL as of 5/30/01 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: n8rv(at)gte.net
Date: Jun 12, 2001
Subject: Oshkosh RV-8/A meetings
Oshkosh is sneaking up again this year, especially so for those of you who are scrambling to finish in time to make the event in your new RVs! Each of the last few years, an informal gathering of RV-8 and -8A builders has been organized during Oshkosh so that faces can be put with names, and old acquaintences be renewed. Since so many of you have been so helpful to me while I continue to stumble along, I've really enjoyed finally meeting and thanking you for all your help. I think it's been a good time for all who've dropped by. This year, Oshkosh ("AirVulture" or "AirVenture", whichever you prefer) starts on Tuesday, July 24 and runs through Monday, July 30. Traditionally, we've held the meetings under an open tree in the Theater in the Woods area, twice during the convention, for any who can show up. Thursday, July 26 at 9:00am and Sunday, July 29 at 10:00 should allow time for most who'd like to gather to do so. If there are major conflicts with seminars or something, we can always change the schedule. So, for you control freaks, check your calendars and seminar schedules and let me know if these times are bad. Otherwise, they'll be chiseled in stone. I'll be posting this note to the RV-Lists again in July, as Oshkosh looms closer. As always, these gatherings are NOT exclusive--anyone may attend. It's just a time to meet other RV-8 builders and swap lies. Oh, and bring your own coffee and doughnuts. I don't think Bob Dimeo can carry enough for all of us! --Don McNamara N8RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Dysinger" <larrykdysinger(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [rv8list] Oshkosh RV-8/A meetings
Date: Jun 12, 2001
Fellow -8ers, Look forward to meeting again. Thursday at 9 am sounds good. See you there Larry RV-8QB 81251 From: N8RV(at)gte.net Subject: [rv8list] Oshkosh RV-8/A meetings Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:34:43 -0500 Oshkosh is sneaking up again this year, especially so for those of you who are scrambling to finish in time to make the event in your new RVs! Each of the last few years, an informal gathering of RV-8 and -8A builders has been organized during Oshkosh so that faces can be put with names, and old acquaintences be renewed. Since so many of you have been so helpful to me while I continue to stumble along, I've really enjoyed finally meeting and thanking you for all your help. I think it's been a good time for all who've dropped by. This year, Oshkosh ("AirVulture" or "AirVenture", whichever you prefer) starts on Tuesday, July 24 and runs through Monday, July 30. Traditionally, we've held the meetings under an open tree in the Theater in the Woods area, twice during the convention, for any who can show up. Thursday, July 26 at 9:00am and Sunday, July 29 at 10:00 should allow time for most who'd like to gather to do so. If there are major conflicts with seminars or something, we can always change the schedule. So, for you control freaks, check your calendars and seminar schedules and let me know if these times are bad. Otherwise, they'll be chiseled in stone. I'll be posting this note to the RV-Lists again in July, as Oshkosh looms closer. As always, these gatherings are NOT exclusive--anyone may attend. It's just a time to meet other RV-8 builders and swap lies. Oh, and bring your own coffee and doughnuts. I don't think Bob Dimeo can carry enough for all of us! --Don McNamara N8RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Carter" <ronc(at)metropolis.slc.net>
Subject: Fw: hanger party/fly in
Date: Jun 12, 2001
----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Carter Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 10:17 AM Subject: hanger party/fly in Hey rocket men- Wayne Loeber is hosting the second RV/Harmon Rocket/Experimental fly in at Skypark airport in Bountiful Utah this Saturday the 16th of June. The plan is to start about 1:00 and hang out talk airplanes drink some soda and maybe go for a burn around the pattern/Antolope Isl. etc. For you Idahoans it would be a great stop on a Crispy Creme run to PVU. Hope to see you there. Bountiful Skypark Airport BTF South East side white hanger building, Hanger #12 Wayne Loeber 278-7212 Ron Carter 298-0406wk., 298-2139hm. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: Re: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
Date: Jun 12, 2001
Carroll, Thank you for the information. Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Christie" <billc(at)dancris.com>
Subject: Re: RV8-List: Oshkosh RV-8/A meetings
Date: Jun 12, 2001
My wife (Tina) I will definitely make one of those meetings, even if we do have to bring our own munchies! I am about to order the finish kit. Do Not Archive Bill & Tina Christie, RV8A, finishing up fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: <n8rv(at)gte.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 8:34 AM Subject: RV8-List: Oshkosh RV-8/A meetings > --> RV8-List message posted by: n8rv(at)gte.net > > Oshkosh is sneaking up again this year, especially so for those of you > who are scrambling to finish in time to make the event in your new RVs! > > Each of the last few years, an informal gathering of RV-8 and -8A > builders has been organized during Oshkosh so that faces can be put with > names, and old acquaintences be renewed. > > Since so many of you have been so helpful to me while I continue to > stumble along, I've really enjoyed finally meeting and thanking you for > all your help. I think it's been a good time for all who've dropped by. > > This year, Oshkosh ("AirVulture" or "AirVenture", whichever you prefer) > starts on Tuesday, July 24 and runs through Monday, July 30. > Traditionally, we've held the meetings under an open tree in the Theater > in the Woods area, twice during the convention, for any who can show up. > > Thursday, July 26 at 9:00am and Sunday, July 29 at 10:00 should allow > time for most who'd like to gather to do so. > > If there are major conflicts with seminars or something, we can always > change the schedule. So, for you control freaks, check your calendars > and seminar schedules and let me know if these times are bad. > Otherwise, they'll be chiseled in stone. > > I'll be posting this note to the RV-Lists again in July, as Oshkosh > looms closer. As always, these gatherings are NOT exclusive--anyone may > attend. It's just a time to meet other RV-8 builders and swap lies. > > Oh, and bring your own coffee and doughnuts. I don't think Bob Dimeo > can carry enough for all of us! > > --Don McNamara > N8RV > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 2001
From: Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: avionics
Listers, I've read several posts about John Stark and his prices and service on Garmin stuff. Does anyone have an address, phone number, web site, etc. for him? Jim Duckett sold the 6 stuff, Starting the 7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com>
Subject: avionics
Date: Jun 12, 2001
Stark Avionics Hangar 12 Columbus Metro Airport Columbus, GA 31909 706-321-1008 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Duckett Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 10:54 AM Subject: RV-List: avionics Listers, I've read several posts about John Stark and his prices and service on Garmin stuff. Does anyone have an address, phone number, web site, etc. for him? Jim Duckett sold the 6 stuff, Starting the 7A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 2001
From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Boost Pump
I have my AFP boost pump on the engine side of the firewall--300 hrs without problems. Boyd Braem Vince wrote: > > > I was working on my fuselage and looking at the location for the AFP > boost pump that Van's shows. I'm not real thrilled about high > pressure fuel in the cockpit. Do you guys think that there would be > a problem putting the pump on the forward side of the firewall with a > shroud and a blast tube? The mechanical fuel pump survives up there. > > Vince Welch > RV-8A Fuselage > Roaming Shores, Ohio > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Are Barstad <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: avionics
Date: Jun 12, 2001
His homepage is here: http://www.mindspring.com/~jts7/starkav.html Are RV-8 Wings www.ontariorvators.org VAF-OW > > From: Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net> > Date: 2001/06/12 Tue PM 01:54:13 EDT > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: avionics > > > Listers, > I've read several posts about John Stark and his prices and service on > Garmin stuff. Does anyone have an address, phone number, web site, etc. > for him? > > Jim Duckett > sold the 6 stuff, Starting the 7A > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barstad, Are" <BarstadA(at)bis.adp.com>
Subject: RE: RV8-List: Oshkosh RV-8/A meetings
Date: Jun 12, 2001
This is great! Looking forward to meet other -8 builders/pilots. I will try to make it. I had planned arriving Thursday night and leaving Sunday early (argh!) but might be able to change plans slightly. I'm also happy we have an event for *all* RV'ers and looking forward to meeting all the other RV builders/pilots at the banquet! Cheers! Are RV-8 Wings -----Original Message----- From: n8rv(at)gte.net [mailto:n8rv(at)gte.net] Sent: June 12, 2001 11:35 AM Subject: RV8-List: Oshkosh RV-8/A meetings --> RV8-List message posted by: n8rv(at)gte.net Oshkosh is sneaking up again this year, especially so for those of you who are scrambling to finish in time to make the event in your new RVs! Each of the last few years, an informal gathering of RV-8 and -8A builders has been organized during Oshkosh so that faces can be put with names, and old acquaintences be renewed. Since so many of you have been so helpful to me while I continue to stumble along, I've really enjoyed finally meeting and thanking you for all your help. I think it's been a good time for all who've dropped by. This year, Oshkosh ("AirVulture" or "AirVenture", whichever you prefer) starts on Tuesday, July 24 and runs through Monday, July 30. Traditionally, we've held the meetings under an open tree in the Theater in the Woods area, twice during the convention, for any who can show up. Thursday, July 26 at 9:00am and Sunday, July 29 at 10:00 should allow time for most who'd like to gather to do so. If there are major conflicts with seminars or something, we can always change the schedule. So, for you control freaks, check your calendars and seminar schedules and let me know if these times are bad. Otherwise, they'll be chiseled in stone. I'll be posting this note to the RV-Lists again in July, as Oshkosh looms closer. As always, these gatherings are NOT exclusive--anyone may attend. It's just a time to meet other RV-8 builders and swap lies. Oh, and bring your own coffee and doughnuts. I don't think Bob Dimeo can carry enough for all of us! --Don McNamara N8RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: avionics
Date: Jun 12, 2001
jts7(at)mindspring.com gets him via E-Mail... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Duckett" <perfeng(at)3rivers.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 12:54 PM Subject: RV-List: avionics > > Listers, > I've read several posts about John Stark and his prices and service on > Garmin stuff. Does anyone have an address, phone number, web site, etc. > for him? > > Jim Duckett > sold the 6 stuff, Starting the 7A > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Parsons" <DAP(at)DParsons.com>
Subject: Powder Coating Aluminum
Date: Jun 12, 2001
Are there any materials experts out there that can comment on heating aluminum. I'd like to powder coat some aluminum parts, but to do this the coating has to be baked at 400 degrees F for 20 minutes. If I do this, will that change the strength properties of the aluminum parts? Thanks in advance. Don ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Powder Coating Aluminum
Date: Jun 12, 2001
I am no expert on the subject, but I did visit with an RV6 builder who has a powder coating business about the very subject. He will not powder coat aluminum. He says that is way too much heat and it will adversely effect the aluminum. This guy has also been a contractor that built aluminum parts from scratch for jet aircraft and I think he knows his aluminum pretty well. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6 finish kit ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Parsons <DAP(at)DParsons.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 2:09 PM Subject: RV-List: Powder Coating Aluminum > > Are there any materials experts out there that can comment on heating > aluminum. I'd like to powder coat some aluminum parts, but to do this the > coating has to be baked at 400 degrees F for 20 minutes. If I do this, will > that change the strength properties of the aluminum parts? > > Thanks in advance. > > Don > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glenn Vokac" <glennrv8(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: RV8-List: Oshkosh RV-8/A meetings
Date: Jun 12, 2001
Thursday, July 26th at 9:00am sounds great. I look forward to meeting all you fellow RV-8 builders. --Glenn Vokac RV-8 #81376 ----- Original Message ----- From: <n8rv(at)gte.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 10:34 AM Subject: RV8-List: Oshkosh RV-8/A meetings > --> RV8-List message posted by: n8rv(at)gte.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "brian wallis" <brianpwallis(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: rv-8 for sale
Date: Jun 12, 2001
Post message RV-8 for sale. Marriage forces sale She wants a RV-7 Wings and fuel cells assembled.. awaiting rigging and top sheet of skin on wings. Landing lights installed... tail beautifuly done as well. Extra RV-8 tail partially assembled for extra or seperate. All except finishing kit included in kit. Please email brianpwallis(at)hotmail.com or brianpwallis(at)aol.com 315-775-7913home 315-486-3117cell Will consider all offers. Thank you. Brian Wallis ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 2001
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Powder Coating Aluminum
In a message dated Tue, 12 Jun 2001 3:13:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Don Parsons" writes: Are there any materials experts out there that can comment on heating aluminum. I'd like to powder coat some aluminum parts, but to do this the coating has to be baked at 400 degrees F for 20 minutes. If I do this, will that change the strength properties of the aluminum parts?>> I know that someone has already commented with some authority on this, but the real answer is, it depends on the alloy. Certain aluminum alloys (6061 among them) are artificially aged to attain optimum hardness for several hours at up to 450 deg F. This is beneficial and enhances the alloy's properties in this case. I would not be concerned with powder coating an instrument panel or other similar non-loadbearing structural member, but as I've said repeatedly, POWDER COATING IS DECORATIVE ONLY and is not a substitute for a proper corrosion protective treatment on the aluminum and steel parts of which our airplanes are made. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 2001
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Solenoids installation
> > >Hi: > > Can any one tell me, if there is instructions >somewhere, either on the plans, or building manual >about using a reinforcement plate, when installing >the solenoids, to the fire wall? I cannot find >any referece to this anywhere.. > > I have installed them, on the fire wall, with >platenuts, that is all (1/4 bolts) > > Somne one told me they have to be reinforced.. > > Comments, or info... > >thanks > >bert Bert, I bought the drawings for Van's electrical system harness on the RV-8, just to see how they recommended routing wiring, etc. If you have the forward battery, they show the solenoids mounted on the forward edge of the battery box. If you have the aft battery, they have the starter solenoid mounted with the holes going through one of the firewall angles. So, it seems that Van figures you shouldn't just mount it to the firewall. The $5 I spent for the drawings for the electrical system was money well spent. It saved me a lot of time agonizing over where to drill holes to route the wiring, etc. I didn't buy the harness, because I want to make enough changes to mean I would have to redo a lot of the wires, but the drawing is still useful. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Continental Diesel
Date: Jun 12, 2001
I phoned Continental and asked about the GAP Diesel. They said they will hopefully fly later this year and have them for sale in around four years. Too late for me but if I was just starting I would stay very interested. The engine will be 200 hp at 2200 rpm. Should be cheaper and quieter. Will run off Jet A. Those just starting might want leave the option open. The biggest differences in construction will be in the lower fuselage and of course the other side of the firewall. It will need a big fuel boost pump and a significant fuel return line. The fuel selector valve will most likely be very different from Van's. Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: Paint Booth Ventilation
Date: Jun 12, 2001
I had a truck and a recreational vehicle painted last month. The shop had a car paint booth but for oversized vehicles they were using a large shed with doors open at one end and a fan at the other. The fan was used to exhaust. It was about five feet in diameter and belt driven. This put the motor off to the side. It looked like it was out of a washing machine. The whole thing was home made and worked very well. If I were using it I would add a panel of filters at the intake end and be happy. I gave quite an effort to learning how to paint a couple of years ago and the main thing I learned was to pay other people to paint my stuff. Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 2001
Subject: Re: Solenoids installation
From: Don R Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
All of my stuff got included through the angle pieces except the fuel senders block which I over built a doubler for. I will likey have a forward CG over it. Don Jordan - 6A - N6DJ Arlington, Tx ******************************* writes: > > > Hi: > > Can any one tell me, if there is instructions > somewhere, either on the plans, or building manual > about using a reinforcement plate, when installing > the solenoids, to the fire wall? I cannot find > any referece to this anywhere.. > > I have installed them, on the fire wall, with > platenuts, that is all (1/4 bolts) > > Somne one told me they have to be reinforced.. > > Comments, or info... > > thanks > > bert > > rv6a > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Keith Hughes" <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-6 canopy frame
Date: Jun 12, 2001
Does anyone have any supplemental notes for a tip up canopy? I understand the concept (I think) but actually fitting the canopy frame and getting it clamped into place is turning out to be more difficult than I thought from reading the plans. Everything seems to be off just a little, and I'm not sure how to get it to fit, or if it's not important. Anyway, if you guys could point me in th eright direction, I'd appreciate it. Keith Hughes RV-6 Parker, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Subject: Re: Solenoids installation
In a message dated 6/12/01 5:01:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bertrv6(at)yahoo.com writes: << Can any one tell me, if there is instructions somewhere, either on the plans, or building manual about using a reinforcement plate, when installing the solenoids, to the fire wall? >> Van's wiring drawing OP-12 (not part of the regular drawing package) shows the use of 0.063 reinforcement plates between the solenoids and the firewall. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, finish kit stuff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: RE: RV-List Digest: 61 Msgs - 06/11/01
Date: Jun 12, 2001
Well Folks, wish me luck, tomorrow is certification day. I have the electronic label maker all fired up for when they want one more sticker. Just got the prop an hour ago (2230 California time), UPS lost it for several days, so its going to be a serious rush job on the spinner. UPS also dropped it so hard that it punched through all layers of cardboard and two inches of newsprint, after tearing out the center hub retainments. This is the third prop in a row in the last year that I have seen UPS damage; I think I am qualified at this point in stating that they are not qualified to transport a propeller. (In one case the blade was hit so hard on the tip that it was bent at the root) So my only recourse is to tell the world, "If you want it to work when you get it, if you get it, don't ship it UPS" Wheeler ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Wiegenstein" <johnw(at)hellerwiegenstein.com>
Subject: Rudder Pedal Friction
Date: Jun 13, 2001
OK, the brake pedals are fitted and installed, and the rudder bars are mounted in the forward cockpit. These are the late model overhead style. The concern is this: even after checking torques on the fasteners for the delrin bearing blocks (sides and center), it still seems to me that there is more "drag" (i.e., friction) in actuating the rudder bars than might be acceptable. I assume that to some extent air loads will help center the bars and overcome some system friction, at least above a certain airspeed, but given the small amount of "slop" that will might exist in the rudder cables I don't know if that will be sufficient. The rudder bars aren't "difficult" to move, and it doesnlt feel like there is anything binding up; they're just not as butter smooth and friction free as the other control system components that I've built to date. I've drilled the tops of the bearing blocks for lubrication (Tri-Flow or similar), but this seems to make little difference. What say you listers regarding acceptable amounts of drag in the rudder bar system, and any suggested fixes if needed? TIA John and Laurie Wiegenstein Hansville, WA RV-6 #23961- Finish kit ordered - gotta save some more for that Lycosaur . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Subject: Re: RV-6 canopy frame
Date: Jun 13, 2001
> > Does anyone have any supplemental notes for a tip up canopy? > Yes. Will Cretsinger has those as well as extensive notes for other building phases. I found the canopy notes at http://www.flash.net/~gila/wing_docs/canopy_notes2.htm Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder Pedal Friction
From: Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
Date: Jun 13, 2001
06/13/2001 09:34:41 AM John, Ken at Vans told me to split all the blocks lengthwise for ease of removal, boy do I agree with him now that I've done it. I have a washer (spacer) in between the pieces where the bolts are to eliminate friction. This does not introduce any slop that I can recognise. I also went to West Marine and got teflon shrouds for sailboat cables and put them on my rudder cables. My rudder cables are now silent and have near zero friction. I think splitting your blocks will fix what ails ya. Eric Henson If it gets any hotter down here in the swamp I'll be able to cut my canopy with a butter knife. "John Wiegenstein" (at)matronics.com on 06/13/2001 08:49:50 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: RV-List: Rudder Pedal Friction OK, the brake pedals are fitted and installed, and the rudder bars are mounted in the forward cockpit. These are the late model overhead style. The concern is this: even after checking torques on the fasteners for the delrin bearing blocks (sides and center), it still seems to me that there is more "drag" (i.e., friction) in actuating the rudder bars than might be acceptable. I assume that to some extent air loads will help center the bars and overcome some system friction, at least above a certain airspeed, but given the small amount of "slop" that will might exist in the rudder cables I don't know if that will be sufficient. The rudder bars aren't "difficult" to move, and it doesnlt feel like there is anything binding up; they're just not as butter smooth and friction free as the other control system components that I've built to date. I've drilled the tops of the bearing blocks for lubrication (Tri-Flow or similar), but this seems to make little difference. What say you listers regarding acceptable amounts of drag in the rudder bar system, and any suggested fixes if needed? TIA John and Laurie Wiegenstein Hansville, WA RV-6 #23961- Finish kit ordered - gotta save some more for that Lycosaur . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: Re: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Scott, Correction.... the lower left side was noticeably worse buckling on the last firewall. Also, I flew her again yesterday and while in the air I can "flex" (oil canning) the firewall slightly with my left foot but it resists flexing when she's on the ground. Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New gonzo, super feature on Van's Air Force-World Wide Wing site.
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Thread-Topic: New gonzo, super feature on Van's Air Force-World Wide Wing site. Thread-Index: AcD0FN0DZQAHSiWlSr6BfZXYRMl/Sg=
From: "Reeves, Doug" <Douglas.Reeves(at)archongroup.com>
Morning listers, I added a page that automatically pulls news stories off several news sites on the internet with the words 'aviation' and 'aircraft' in them. This refreshes automatically throughout the day and will provide lots of reasons to goof off at work. The link is right next to the 'RV NEWS' headline at the top of the page. Yes, I know I'm a nerd. You don't have to remind me. Top story at http://www.vansaircraft.net . Hope everyone has a nice Wednesday. Doug Reeves RV-6 Standard Kit Nutplates in the Fuse! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
Date: Jun 13, 2001
So the landing gear getting unloaded causes the flexing... Could you maybe jack up the aircraft so that it is fully off the ground and then slowly lower it (with cowling off) to see if you can see where the relative movement is? Or am I just covering old ground here? -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA Network Adminstrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 "Fear of failure is only for the weak and arrogant, for those who foolishly think that somehow they can achieve success without paying the price." -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Rabaut [mailto:crabaut(at)coalinga.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 4:41 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling**** Scott, Correction.... the lower left side was noticeably worse buckling on the last firewall. Also, I flew her again yesterday and while in the air I can "flex" (oil canning) the firewall slightly with my left foot but it resists flexing when she's on the ground. Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rpflanze(at)iquest.net
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Subject: Condition Inspection
I have been consolidating several condition inspection checklists into one specific to my RV-6. I have two questions related to performing the condition inspection: 1) Is there something in the mechanical fuel pump that should be disassembled and cleaned? Some checklists refer to a filter pump screen, but I'm not aware of it. 2) What is the criteria for replacing spark plugs? Is the criteria based on time, hours of use, or wear? If it is wear, what is the measurement criteria? Thanks. Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 (Doing inspection in preparation for West coast trip) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Condition Inspection
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Randy, Unless you have some reason to suspect a defect I would not recommend taking the mechanical fuel pump apart. There is a diaphram inside that is obviously wet around the center but dry around the outside where the cases screw together. When you take the case apart the diaphram sticks to both halfs, like a gasket, and could rip. Check the overboard dump fitting hole. If there is no apparent fuel there, and no other apparent damage, it is probably best to leave it alone. In aircraft the spark plug replacement criteria is based on condition and wear due to the high cost of aircraft plugs. First, a simple visual inspection of the center electrode. For massive center plugs the center electrode starts off round, and as it wears it will get elliptical. When the center electrode is approximately half gone it is time to change. For fine wire platinum plugs a functional check is about all you can go with. For all plugs you want to clean the garbage out around the center electrode base (for cooling), check the gap, and do a functional check under pressure. It is surprising how many plugs will spark under normal atmospheric conditions but apply pressure and they won't. Also make sure you look down the lead wire barrel end and check the condition of the center electrode contact. Sometimes if the spark plug lead end springs get to be compressed they don't make good contact inside the spark plug and will arc across. The contact point inside the barrel will become burnt and even melt. Hope this helps a bite. It is just a few points that I have learned over the years. Mike Robertson RV-8A >From: rpflanze(at)iquest.net >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Condition Inspection >Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:45:06 est > > >I have been consolidating several condition inspection checklists into one >specific >to my RV-6. I have two questions related to performing the condition >inspection: > > >1) Is there something in the mechanical fuel pump that should be >disassembled >and cleaned? Some checklists refer to a filter pump screen, but I'm not >aware >of it. > >2) What is the criteria for replacing spark plugs? Is the criteria based >on >time, hours of use, or wear? If it is wear, what is the measurement >criteria? > > >Thanks. > >Randy Pflanzer N417G >RV-6 (Doing inspection in preparation for West coast trip) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2001
From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6 canopy frame
Will Cresinger made some notes a few years back...I used them and found them very helpful. Be sure and read the portion about drilling the holes on the side of the canopy...trust me! You can download them at: http://home.flash.net/~gila/wing_docs/canopy_notes2.htm Paul Besing RV-6A 197AB Arizona http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Finishing up --- Keith Hughes wrote: > > > Does anyone have any supplemental notes for a tip > up canopy? > > I understand the concept (I think) but actually > fitting the canopy frame > and getting it clamped into place is turning out to > be more difficult than I > thought from reading the plans. Everything seems to > be off just a little, > and I'm not sure how to get it to fit, or if it's > not important. Anyway, if > you guys could point me in th eright direction, I'd > appreciate it. > > Keith Hughes > RV-6 > Parker, CO > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV8DRIVER(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 40 Msgs - 06/12/01
Please unsubscribe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2001
From: Scot Stambaugh <sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: RE: RV-List Digest: 61 Msgs - 06/11/01
Good luck with the inspection Wheeler. scot > >Well Folks, > >wish me luck, tomorrow is certification day. I have the electronic label >maker all fired up for when they want one more sticker. > >Just got the prop an hour ago (2230 California time), UPS lost it for >several days, so its going to be a serious rush job on the spinner. UPS >also dropped it so hard that it punched through all layers of cardboard and >two inches of newsprint, after tearing out the center hub retainments. > >This is the third prop in a row in the last year that I have seen UPS >damage; I think I am qualified at this point in stating that they are not >qualified to transport a propeller. (In one case the blade was hit so hard >on the tip that it was bent at the root) > >So my only recourse is to tell the world, "If you want it to work when you >get it, if you get it, don't ship it UPS" > >Wheeler > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Subject: Re: Rudder Pedal Friction
In a message dated 6/13/01 5:56:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, johnw(at)hellerwiegenstein.com writes: << it still seems to me that there is more "drag" (i.e., friction) in actuating the rudder bars than might be acceptable. >> Hi John: I had the same concern when I mounted mine. I discovered that two things were causing the "drag." The first was that the forward bar was a "smidgen" (sorry for the technical term) too long and was binding in the ends of the side bearing blocks. That was an easy one to correct as long as you don't file off too much (don't ask). The second source of binding in my case turned out to be that the rudder bars are not perfectly straight, so the when they rotate there is an eccentric motion at the center bearing block. I decided to alleviate that by using a spacer between the bearing halves and grinding the holes a little egg shaped. Seemed to work for me. Good luck Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, finish kit stuff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Christie" <billc(at)dancris.com>
Subject: Re: Continental Diesel
Date: Jun 13, 2001
You say "should be cheaper". Did they quote a price or target price? Bill Christie, RV8A, Phoenix ----- Original Message ----- From: Norman <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 5:11 PM Subject: RV-List: Continental Diesel > > I phoned Continental and asked about the GAP Diesel. They said they will > hopefully fly later this year and have them for sale in around four > years. Too late for me but if I was just starting I would stay very > interested. > > The engine will be 200 hp at 2200 rpm. Should be cheaper and quieter. > Will run off Jet A. Those just starting might want leave the option > open. The biggest differences in construction will be in the lower > fuselage and of course the other side of the firewall. It will need a > big fuel boost pump and a significant fuel return line. The fuel > selector valve will most likely be very different from Van's. > > Norman Hunger > RV6A Delta BC > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: Re: ****Newly replaced Firewall is Buckling****
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Scott, Good suggestion, I have all the necessary equipment to try that and I will. I have also received some "Beefing Up" suggestions that look like they would address this problem. I don't know if the author (I received them off list) would or would not like me to post them and give him credit (I will ask and follow his wishes). I have not decided exactly what to do at this time, but I will keep you all posted. Thank you to all you guys who have responded, this list (as usual) is an awesome asset and a wealth of knowledge and experience. Scott thank you, I know your not far away and I will fly up to visit sometime. Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Goldberg" <n95mf(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-8 project for sale
Date: Jun 13, 2001
RV-8 project for sale. The owner died a few months ago, and his widow asked me to help sell his almost finished project. He had built an RV-4, RV-6, and RV-6A previously. The workmanship is above average, but not show winner. Project is just outside of Austin, Texas. Actually near Taylor. The plane is about 85% to 90% done. Remaining work to be done is cowling fit, finish wiring everything, install wheels & brakes, install prop, a very little sheet metal work, and assembly. I believe in a couple of months this bird could fly. Project includes: O-360 A1D (fresh o/h by a well regarded engine guy)installed on airframe Sam James plenum finished (but needs the cowl fiberglass mod work) One mag & one ElectroAir installed, O/H carb installed Engine controls hooked up Felix wood prop (new $832) Radios:(all installed)GNC 250 GPS/Com, Rocky Mtn engine intrument, KT76 transponder, EI fuel computer intercon, ACK-450 ELT, & RST-564 Audio Panel. There is also a new electric Artificial Horizon (uninstalled) that comes with project. This is well beyond the Quick Build kit stage of completion. Asking price is $40,000. Please respond to me off list. My e-mail is N95MF(at)hotmail.com. Phone numbers are (home)512-261-4122, and (cell)512/626-7886. If you want an RV-8 but don't want to do much work, this is a good opportunity. I also built and fly an RV-8 (no quick build available when I finished mine), so I am familiar with what remains to be done. Mark Frederick (of Team Rocket) was a friend of the owner and went to look at it with me. If you can't find me, his # is 512/365-8131. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com>
Subject: Rudder fix
Date: Jun 13, 2001
All, I'm nearing the end of this long ordeal (6 year anniversary for kit 24255 tomorrow), but I have NOT changed my rudder pedels to include the little triangle reinforcements. Completely off the record.... no soap boxes.... no philosophical crap about the value of life.... Do I really need to do this? There must be 1000 or more RVs flying around out there that have not made this modification. Is it more important in a tail dragger than with a nose dragger? From the best of my research, I can only see that this caused one accident, but I don't see that it was even a minor problem other than this. Thanks, jim Tampa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dwight Frye <dwight(at)openweave.org>
Subject: Builder-wannabe Wants to Visit
Date: Jun 13, 2001
I am looking for folks with RVs in progress, or completed, who will tolerate a newbie coming out for a look. :) I realize none of you know me as I have been lurking (off and on) on this list for years now, but not posting 'cause I'm not yet building. So, I'll take a moment to give a little background. While I am not building yet, the time draws nearer. It looks like circumstances may allow me to start building this year. (Yeah, I know, "this year" is a pretty nebulous metric ... but for me money/family/job all have to align well enough for me to start, and it looks like they will within the year.) Therefore, I am getting more focussed on deciding what I want to build, and whether I am even capable of completing a project of this size. To help me figure out if I can build or not I have even taken a few of the Alexander SportAir classes ... and loved 'em. I have looked at both Velocitys and RVs. While 4 seats are a bit tempting, and I love the look of the Velocity, the reality is that it looks MUCH more expensive to complete and more often than not I fly with just myself and -maybe- one other person along for the ride. I have flown 2 and 3 other folks both in the Cherokee 180 we used to own, and the Cessna 182 I rent now ... but even with that said, I mainly fly just for -me-. Therefore, for now, two will do. And, I confess, I truly love the look of the RVs. And I want to be able to do some sport aerobatics. And .. and .. well, I think this crowd likely gets the idea without me having to say more. :) To that end, finding folks who are building (or who have completed) RV projects so I can understand better what I might be getting myself into. I visited Van's about 4 years ago, got the factory tour, have looked at the info pack they provide, and have spent way-too-many hours on the web looking at builder's pages. (For all the time I have spent reading about it ... I think I could have completed one!) I am going to be in the San Jose area this upcoming weekend and have time to kill on Saturday. Are any of you in the SF bay area? I'll have a car, know the bay area fairly well, and am not afraid to drive. :) I live in central North Carolina, and am also wanting to find folks in the NC/SC/VA area who might welcome a visit. I am familiar with the "RV White Pages", but hesitate (for some reason) to just call some poor sucker out of the blue and introduce myself. So, I thought I would first post a public request here. So, how about it? Anyone up for a visit?? -- Dwight ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2001
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder fix
> Do I really need to do this? There must be 1000 or more RVs flying > around > out there that have not made this modification. Is it more important > in a > tail dragger than with a nose dragger? From the best of my research, > I can > only see that this caused one accident, but I don't see that it was > even a > minor problem other than this. Jim, Bob Siebert is a local Central Texas -6 flyer who has had his rudder pedal beak - on final into his grass strip. He went around, slid over to the right seat and landed without incident. Is it more important in a tail dragger? I'd say yes - landing without positive control of the rudder in a tail dragger would be more challenging than in tricycle gear. Do you really need to do it? You puts your money down and takes your chances... Causing accidents? One has to wonder how many un-reported almost-accidents have happened - just like Bob's. FWIW. Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Firewall Forward ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2001
From: efortner <efortner(at)vnet.net>
Subject: Re: Continental Diesel
any idea on the retail price Norman wrote: > > I phoned Continental and asked about the GAP Diesel. They said they will > hopefully fly later this year and have them for sale in around four > years. Too late for me but if I was just starting I would stay very > interested. > > The engine will be 200 hp at 2200 rpm. Should be cheaper and quieter. > Will run off Jet A. Those just starting might want leave the option > open. The biggest differences in construction will be in the lower > fuselage and of course the other side of the firewall. It will need a > big fuel boost pump and a significant fuel return line. The fuel > selector valve will most likely be very different from Van's. > > Norman Hunger > RV6A Delta BC > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rudder fix
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Rudder fix Thread-Index: AcD0SAdLeXlPpNqkSdmdJwicd7Md6QAAFgYQ
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
Hi Jim, I don't have the tabs welded in on mine. Removing the rudder pedal assembly looks like it would be a real bear of a job once they're installed. Just because its AD'ed doesn't mean yours are going to fail. The "AD" says you can weld the tab in or inspect every 10 hours...I get a long-handled inspection mirror and a flashlight and take a peek every ten hours or so...really not a big deal. No sign of fatigue so far. Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 158 hours -----Original Message----- From: Jim Norman, MD [mailto:jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 3:01 PM Subject: RV-List: Rudder fix All, I'm nearing the end of this long ordeal (6 year anniversary for kit 24255 tomorrow), but I have NOT changed my rudder pedels to include the little triangle reinforcements. Completely off the record.... no soap boxes.... no philosophical crap about the value of life.... Do I really need to do this? There must be 1000 or more RVs flying around out there that have not made this modification. Is it more important in a tail dragger than with a nose dragger? From the best of my research, I can only see that this caused one accident, but I don't see that it was even a minor problem other than this. Thanks, jim Tampa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Rudder fix
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Yes and we at Emergency Aircraft Repair have had to do only one in last couple of years AS an EMERGENCY. What is your plane worth? Less than the time to do it right? Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 3:41 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Rudder fix Hi Jim, I don't have the tabs welded in on mine. Removing the rudder pedal assembly looks like it would be a real bear of a job once they're installed. Just because its AD'ed doesn't mean yours are going to fail. The "AD" says you can weld the tab in or inspect every 10 hours...I get a long-handled inspection mirror and a flashlight and take a peek every ten hours or so...really not a big deal. No sign of fatigue so far. Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 158 hours -----Original Message----- From: Jim Norman, MD [mailto:jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 3:01 PM Subject: RV-List: Rudder fix All, I'm nearing the end of this long ordeal (6 year anniversary for kit 24255 tomorrow), but I have NOT changed my rudder pedels to include the little triangle reinforcements. Completely off the record.... no soap boxes.... no philosophical crap about the value of life.... Do I really need to do this? There must be 1000 or more RVs flying around out there that have not made this modification. Is it more important in a tail dragger than with a nose dragger? From the best of my research, I can only see that this caused one accident, but I don't see that it was even a minor problem other than this. Thanks, jim Tampa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder fix
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Jim, I do not have the tabs on mine, either. I take a look at them about monthly, because I have to clean brake fluid off the top of one cylinder due to minor weepage around the shaft. I haven't seen any sign of stress on the rudder weldments in the 230 hrs I've put on them. Rick Caldwell > >Do I really need to do this? There must be 1000 or more RVs flying around >out there that have not made this modification. Is it more important in a >tail dragger than with a nose dragger? From the best of my research, I can >only see that this caused one accident, but I don't see that it was even a >minor problem other than this. > >Thanks, > >jim >Tampa > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "AYRES, JIMMY L" <JAYRES(at)entergy.com>
Subject: Nosewheel stops
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Is anyone out there flying their RV-A around with the nosewheel stops removed? (ie. fully castering). It sure would be easier to back up into a crowded hanger that way. Any feedback would be appreciated. J. Ayres ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Subject: Re: Rudder fix
In a message dated 6/13/01 4:02:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com writes: > > All, > I'm nearing the end of this long ordeal (6 year anniversary for kit 24255 > tomorrow), but I have NOT changed my rudder pedels to include the little > triangle reinforcements. > > Completely off the record.... no soap boxes.... no philosophical crap > about the value of life.... > > Do I really need to do this? There must be 1000 or more RVs flying around > out there that have not made this modification. Is it more important in a > tail dragger than with a nose dragger? From the best of my research, I can > only see that this caused one accident, but I don't see that it was even a > minor problem other than this. I say do it. The RV-6 that got wrecked was built by a friend, then sold. Subsequently, the service bulletin came out. The new owner didn't follow the service bulletin, and a pedal broke in the landing flare. I've seen the pictures, the airplane was trashed. Basically a complete write off of the airframe. The pilot, fortunately, wasn't hurt. This accident led me to rework my pedals, and yes, it was a substantial pain in the ass. By the way, when I raised this question on the list 6 months or so ago, I got several off-list stories of failed pedals. The individuals didn't want to post to the list because of the controversial nature of the subject matter. I think that if you will only fly solo (and it is your butt on the line), you have every right to not fix your pedals, and accept the risk yourself. However, if you're taking passengers aloft, you need to do the right thing by them, and go out of your way to make sure your airplane is as safe as you can make it. This (IMO) includes fixing the rudder pedals. Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Schlosser" <kevinschlosser(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder fix
Date: Jun 13, 2001
I'm trying to picture how this is possible to do (switching seats) with the other control stick in the way. If the control stick was stowed and he did it with original stick but new pedals, how'd he get around the current stick? I know I'm low time and all, but how'd he do that? -< PropellerHead >- [SNIP] Jim, Bob Siebert is a local Central Texas -6 flyer who has had his rudder pedal beak - on final into his grass strip. He went around, slid over to the right seat and landed without incident. Is it more important in a tail dragger? I'd say yes - landing without positive control of the rudder in a tail dragger would be more challenging than in tricycle gear. Do you really need to do it? You puts your money down and takes your chances... Causing accidents? One has to wonder how many un-reported almost-accidents have happened - just like Bob's. FWIW. Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Firewall Forward ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N8292W(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Subject: IFR Avionics Advice
I am building an RV-4 and almost done with the sheetmetal so I am now trying to figure out what avionics I want and need some advice.... I was thinking about going IFR since it will be a while before I get to build another plane and I want to keep IFR current. So, I was thinking on a KX155 w/ KI209 indicator. This way I can do VOR/LOC/ILS approaches. Will I also need an audio Panel w/ marker beacons or will it depend on the approach? (probably a rookie question....) I already have a KT76A transponder and I'm going to have a vacuum system with the standard 6 gages and the basic other necessities gage wise. Now this does not give me a DME or an ADF. So my next question is should I get an IFR moving map GPS (I assume I can use these for DME and an ADF if necessary?) or save the $3K for my next plane? If this is the case, should I just go and get a used Garmin GNS430 (instead of the 155 w/GS and the IFR moving map) since it would be about the same price? If I get the Garmin, do I need an external indicator also? So, I guess I am wondering what is a good set of basic IFR equipment that I should be happy with and that won't make me feel like I don't have all I need? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks -Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Schlosser" <kevinschlosser(at)msn.com>
Subject: EFIS
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Anybody considering a Sierra EFIS in their RV? Ok, ok, stop laughing / gasping at wallet shock... REALLY, is anybody considering it SERIOUSLY? Based on the information packs and talking to a reseller, I've learned that it is quite a bit lighter in weight than I thought. I could save a bunch in weight while gaining features that would be extremely helpful and desirable. Yes, I could do an IFR panel with a UPSAT stack and get the nice moving map, etc. But I'm thinking that the 1000 series is a good "foot-in-the-door" approach to EFIS and add the black box that gives it the system 2000 features later. Ok, so, anybody really planning this? I'd love to hear about it, why you're going this route, and what other hardware will you have on your panel with it? -=< PropellerHead >=- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Hawkins <lhawkins(at)giant.com>
Subject: alternator for RV-4
Date: Jun 13, 2001
I almost hate to ask for fear of being flamed but I have been reading the archives for 2 hours and can't find the answers. I am looking for an alternator to fit in an RV-4 without doing unthinkable things to the cowl. I need less than 40 amps and I don't have a problem using an internally regulated alternator. I vaguely remember some posts about using a Honda or Suzuki unit. Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, finishing. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2001
From: ENewton57(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Nosewheel stops
<> I'm not flying yet but I had an interesting thing happen to me on my 1st engine start up. My nose wheel did not have the stops installed and when I pushed the plane back the nose wheel reversed. I started the plane that way and the prop cut a groove in my nose tire. Just sharing :>) Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2001
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder fix
--- Kevin Schlosser wrote: > > > I'm trying to picture how this is possible to do (switching seats) > with t> he other control stick in the way. If the control stick was stowed > and h> e did it with original stick but new pedals, how'd he get around the > curr> ent stick? > > I know I'm low time and all, but how'd he do that? I imagine when it comes down to it, one can do amazing things. Ever switched drivers in a moving vehicle? Neither have I, and I can't see how it could be done, but done it has been. Bob's sticks are fixed. He's not that big a guy. Probably just one leg at a time. - Mike ==== Michael E. Thompson (Grobdriver(at)yahoo.com) Austin, TX, USA RV-6 in progress, N140RV (Reserved) EX-AX1 Sub Hunter, P-3 (B/B-TACMOD/C) Orion Aircrew, PP-G,ASEL, Motorglider Driver and Unlimited Air Race Nut! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2001
From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: alternator for RV-4
Bart Lalonde has a Nippo 40 amp internally regulated alternator that he sells with his engine...small, and lightweight. He said the replacement for it if I ever got in a bind with it was for a Chevy Sprint. You might want to call Bart and see if he could sell one to you, or head to Checker and get the one for the Chevy Sprint. Paul Besing RV-6A 197AB Arizona http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Inspection coming soon! --- Larry Hawkins wrote: > > > I almost hate to ask for fear of being flamed but I > have been reading the > archives for 2 hours and can't find the answers. I > am looking for an > alternator to fit in an RV-4 without doing > unthinkable things to the cowl. I > need less than 40 amps and I don't have a problem > using an internally > regulated alternator. I vaguely remember some posts > about using a Honda or > Suzuki unit. > Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, finishing. > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rudder fix
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Rudder fix Thread-Index: AcD0T38O8gqe2+HmRhmCpC7fffnyGQABCvMg
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
I wonder if the guy who had his break was inspecting it every ten hours...I fully intend to do this as a winter project but in the mean time I will repetitively inspect my pedals, which I have been doing religiously. Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying -----Original Message----- From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley(at)qcbc.org] Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 4:09 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder fix Yes and we at Emergency Aircraft Repair have had to do only one in last couple of years AS an EMERGENCY. What is your plane worth? Less than the time to do it right? Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 3:41 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Rudder fix Hi Jim, I don't have the tabs welded in on mine. Removing the rudder pedal assembly looks like it would be a real bear of a job once they're installed. Just because its AD'ed doesn't mean yours are going to fail. The "AD" says you can weld the tab in or inspect every 10 hours...I get a long-handled inspection mirror and a flashlight and take a peek every ten hours or so...really not a big deal. No sign of fatigue so far. Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 158 hours -----Original Message----- From: Jim Norman, MD [mailto:jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 3:01 PM Subject: RV-List: Rudder fix All, I'm nearing the end of this long ordeal (6 year anniversary for kit 24255 tomorrow), but I have NOT changed my rudder pedels to include the little triangle reinforcements. Completely off the record.... no soap boxes.... no philosophical crap about the value of life.... Do I really need to do this? There must be 1000 or more RVs flying around out there that have not made this modification. Is it more important in a tail dragger than with a nose dragger? From the best of my research, I can only see that this caused one accident, but I don't see that it was even a minor problem other than this. Thanks, jim Tampa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: EFIS
Date: Jun 13, 2001
If you haven't started building yet or just started on your emepennage you will see that avionics will change in features, price and models by the time you need it (unless you plan on only a few months total building time of course :) ). I have decided to wait with the avionics until the very last so I can take advantage of new systems and/or reduced prices on today's top-of-the-line avionics. The Sierra EFIS system looks nice though. Are RV-8 Wings -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Schlosser Sent: June 13, 2001 5:35 PM Subject: RV-List: EFIS Anybody considering a Sierra EFIS in their RV? Ok, ok, stop laughing / gasping at wallet shock... REALLY, is anybody considering it SERIOUSLY? Based on the information packs and talking to a reseller, I've learned that it is quite a bit lighter in weight than I thought. I could save a bunch in weight while gaining features that would be extremely helpful and desirable. Yes, I could do an IFR panel with a UPSAT stack and get the nice moving map, etc. But I'm thinking that the 1000 series is a good "foot-in-the-door" approach to EFIS and add the black box that gives it the system 2000 features later. Ok, so, anybody really planning this? I'd love to hear about it, why you're going this route, and what other hardware will you have on your panel with it? -=< PropellerHead >=- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2001
From: mitchf(at)netscape.com (Mitchell Faatz)
Subject: Re: EFIS
I'm writing my own moving map software. I'm doing my panel now, so I've got a Garmin 430 underneath my own 6.4" color display. The 430 provides IFR GPS with approach capabilities, my moving map provides a better view of the local area from a VFR point of view. It also plays MP3's. ;) Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit San Mateo, CA Kevin Schlosser wrote: > >Anybody considering a Sierra EFIS in their RV? Ok, ok, >stop laughing / gasping at wallet shock... REALLY, is >anybody considering it SERIOUSLY? > >Based on the information packs and talking to a reseller, >I've learned that it is quite a bit lighter in weight than I >thought. I could save a bunch in weight while gaining >features that would be extremely helpful and desirable. > >Yes, I could do an IFR panel with a UPSAT stack and get >the nice moving map, etc. But I'm thinking that the 1000 >series is a good "foot-in-the-door" approach to EFIS and >add the black box that gives it the system 2000 features later. > >Ok, so, anybody really planning this? I'd love to hear about >it, why you're going this route, and what other hardware >will you have on your panel with it? > >-=< PropellerHead >=- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: IFR Avionics Advice
Date: Jun 13, 2001
buy the 430, use a handheld com and handheld gps for backup. (even a cell phone works for emergencys) and be done with it. You do have to have an external CDI and a status panel for IFR certification of a GPS, but it will take the least panel space and get you the most bang for the buck by far. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com www.petroblend.com/dougr ----- Original Message ----- From: <N8292W(at)aol.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 4:29 PM Subject: RV-List: IFR Avionics Advice > > I am building an RV-4 and almost done with the sheetmetal so I am now trying > to figure out what avionics I want and need some advice.... > > I was thinking about going IFR since it will be a while before I get to build > another plane and I want to keep IFR current. > > So, I was thinking on a KX155 w/ KI209 indicator. This way I can do > VOR/LOC/ILS approaches. Will I also need an audio Panel w/ marker beacons or > will it depend on the approach? (probably a rookie question....) I already > have a KT76A transponder and I'm going to have a vacuum system with the > standard 6 gages and the basic other necessities gage wise. > > Now this does not give me a DME or an ADF. So my next question is should I > get an IFR moving map GPS (I assume I can use these for DME and an ADF if > necessary?) or save the $3K for my next plane? If this is the case, should I > just go and get a used Garmin GNS430 (instead of the 155 w/GS and the IFR > moving map) since it would be about the same price? If I get the Garmin, do > I need an external indicator also? > > So, I guess I am wondering what is a good set of basic IFR equipment that I > should be happy with and that won't make me feel like I don't have all I > need? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks > -Mike > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wbradrich(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Subject: Re: IFR Avionics Advice
I was given what I thought is good advice. Install a dual nav com setup like the old days of IFR avionics installations and back it up with a VFR GPS with map. Should be able to save a few bucks and keep it simple. brad ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2001
From: Rv8don(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: IFR Avionics Advice
Mike, Ditto on Doug's commets on the 430. It'll do everthing you need in one neat package. Especially helpful in the smaller confines of the -4 panel. You'll only need an indicator KI-206 style or equivalent and no, you don't need an external annunicator panel. The 430 is certified for use without it. -Don RV8 NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Vans Compass
Date: Jun 13, 2001
List: Just finished the side skins on my RV6-A Canopy and was starting to get my panel stuff together when I noticed my Vans Pedestal Mount Compass doesn't seem to have any instructions? Anyone know where the adjustments are made? Wiring diagram for the light? Thanks Tom in Ohio (On to the Canopy Back Skirt) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2001
From: "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: Pictures of RV's in the Bahamas
Hi all, I've just finally got some pic's of the trip a couple of us took to the Bahamas up on the web. I'm trying to write a complete story about it, but it's low on the priority list. I'm lucky just to get the pictures up. Anyway some of the highlights. I flew from LA and was supposed to meet up with Jim/Vicki Baker (Goodland, KS) and Gary/Caroline Zilik (Denver, CO) in Goodland and fly down with them. Weather prevented me from getting up to Goodland, so I took the low route thru Texas. We met up in Florida and flew to Pittstown Point that day. Flying over the that much water was an adventure, but no problems were encountered. We did have to fly around one thunderstorm at Andros Island on the way. We landed at Pittstown in the late afternoon in a light drizzle and a billion mosquitos. The mosquitos were the only real problem the whole trip. I'll let the photos tell the rest of the story for now. You can see those at the SoCal site at: http://members3.clubphoto.com/socal230330/ Despite the mosquitos we all had a great time. I burned something like 41 hours to and from with only a broken carb heat cable. Everything else was just gas and oil. All I can say is what a great little airplane (and one that my father and I built). How cool. I don't know how many times along the way I looked at the GPS ground speed and just grinned. This was one of the trips I was dreaming about while smashing rivets. Now what's next....... Keep pounding those rivets. It's all worth it. Laird RV-6 260 hrs SoCal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TColeE(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Subject: Re: Rudder fix
Jim: One RV6 here at Lubbock TX with a 200hp engine did a dance on the runway and off it went in the grass. His right rudder pedal broke right at touchdown. His is now repaired. Several others now have had the reinforcements donedue to this misshap, I have not yet, but will in the near future. Terry E. Cole ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder fix
Date: Jun 13, 2001
> Do I really need to do this I reluctantly modified mine. It is a pain. Without any real data I will hazard a guess that the reason these break is not due to the way they are normally used but to two rather natural human reactions: 1. Stress - under which we tend to push *BOTH* rudder pedals at the same time putting more stress on them than normal usage ever does. 2. Brakes - braking too high on the pedals which again puts high loads on the mechanism. I screwed around too much trying to design a better rudder pedal setup that allowed pedals to be adjusted but no joy. I also tried without success to figure out a way to strengthen the assembly without removing and welding. Should be easy but heavier. If pedals are all in, I would be tempted to fly it awhile first. One pedal at a time in the air and heels on the floor when braking. Hal Kempthorne RV6a N7HK (Valentine) FLYING ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: IFR Avionics Advice
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Mike wrote, > So, I was thinking on a KX155 w/ KI209 indicator. Which tells us you have plenty of money, otherwise you would do Narco, huh? :-) The 209 has glide slope which means you can do > VOR/LOC/ILS approaches. Will I also need an audio Panel w/ marker beacons Can you legally do an ILS approach without a marker beacon installed? > Now this does not give me a DME or an ADF. Lucky you!! Neither will you have coffee grinders, A/N range whatever it was called, nor a rotatable loop. Be thankful!! I have heard of pilots flying IFR by their quality VFR GPS, backed up by VOR. I'm flying off my test hours with just a com radio (ICOM). Maybe even VORs will be obsolete by I get the testing done. Hal Kempthorne RV6a N7HK (Valentine) FLYING ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Schlosser" <kevinschlosser(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: EFIS
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Avionics are last on my list for that very reason, but I figured I'd ask. Someone's website mentioned the same thing. If they improve the Sierra system in the next 3-4 years, I can't wait to see the updates! It's good now. I thought the highway in the sky feature was a good idea. -< PropellerHead >- ----- Original Message ----- From: Are Barstad Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 6:30 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: EFIS If you haven't started building yet or just started on your emepennage you will see that avionics will change in features, price and models by the time you need it (unless you plan on only a few months total building time of course :) ). I have decided to wait with the avionics until the very last so I can take advantage of new systems and/or reduced prices on today's top-of-the-line avionics. The Sierra EFIS system looks nice though. Are RV-8 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Burch" <rv6man(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder fix
Date: Jun 13, 2001
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 4:00 PM Subject: RV-List: Rudder fix > > All, > I'm nearing the end of this long ordeal (6 year anniversary for kit 24255 > tomorrow), but I have NOT changed my rudder pedels to include the little > triangle reinforcements. > > > Do I really need to do this? I think so. I was one of the ones that broke before the AD came out. I do think it is more important on the 6 than the 6A. People keep saying that this only happened to one plane. Vans told me that something like 5or6 had broken before mine. I almost wound up in a guys living room! No fun!. I have to say that there are ways to make sure this does not happen. First, use a little brake with rudder when taxiing. second dont try turning plane with rudder only from a dead stop. Terry B. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelsonhoffrv9(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Subject: Re: Countersinking skin to tank baffle
I read the other options are they obviously work. I just followed the directions and countersunk the skin in the cradle with the baffle clecoed inside the skin. It was simple and worked fine. The baffle provided the necessary support for the countersink to avoid chatter. Curt Hoffman Loveland, OH RV-9A (N912WK reserved) Working on Wing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2001
From: Ian Jessen <vans_rv(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: aerobatics
Listers, I have yet another naive question. If/when I ever build a 7, I want to be able to do simple sport aerobatics, nothing more than loops and rolls (thus, no prolonged inverted flight). What, if any, special equipment do I need for this (flop tubes, inverted oil systems, etc)? Thanks, Ian ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Subject: Re: transponder/marker antenna
Dear listers: Since I have my battery up high on the inside firewall, I was wondering if I could put my transponder and marker beacon antenna between the 2 exhaust pipes through the bottom of the floor. I don't have a battery box in the way, and the wiring would be very easy, I'm concerned about the heat and or interference the 2 exhaust pipes might give. but I think it would be out of the airsteam there behind the scoop and between the pipes. What do you experts think? Scott Tampa RV 6 A building again. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2001
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pictures of RV's in the Bahamas
> Despite the mosquitos we all had a great time. I burned something > like 41 hours to and from with only a broken carb heat cable. > Everything else was just gas and oil. Beautiful pics, Laird... but the important question is, how and why did your carb heat cable break? :) Mike Thompson Austin, TX (a lot closer) -6 N140RV (Reserved) Firewall Forward ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com>
Subject: aerobatics
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Balls. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ian Jessen Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 9:40 PM Subject: RV-List: aerobatics Listers, I have yet another naive question. If/when I ever build a 7, I want to be able to do simple sport aerobatics, nothing more than loops and rolls (thus, no prolonged inverted flight). What, if any, special equipment do I need for this (flop tubes, inverted oil systems, etc)? Thanks, Ian ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: aerobatics
Date: Jun 13, 2001
The only thing you need in an RV to do "Gentleman's Aerobatics" is a well trained pilot. no flop tubes, no inverted systems, no fuel injection. (at the risk of stating the obvious, inverted systems are a waste of money unless you have fuel injection or pressure carb.) Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com www.petroblend.com\dougr ----- Original Message ----- From: Ian Jessen <vans_rv(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 8:39 PM Subject: RV-List: aerobatics > > Listers, > > I have yet another naive question. If/when I ever > build a 7, I want to be able to do simple sport > aerobatics, nothing more than loops and rolls (thus, > no prolonged inverted flight). What, if any, special > equipment do I need for this (flop tubes, inverted oil > systems, etc)? > > Thanks, > Ian > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: aerobatics
Date: Jun 13, 2001
If you are sure you won't do sustained inverted flight you don't have to do anything. Altough.. you may want to install a removable gyro panel so you can remove the attitude and heading indicators while doing aerobatics. This will prolong the life of your gyro instruments. Are RV-8 Wings -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ian Jessen Sent: June 13, 2001 9:40 PM Subject: RV-List: aerobatics Listers, I have yet another naive question. If/when I ever build a 7, I want to be able to do simple sport aerobatics, nothing more than loops and rolls (thus, no prolonged inverted flight). What, if any, special equipment do I need for this (flop tubes, inverted oil systems, etc)? Thanks, Ian ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Flap actuator assembly
Date: Jun 13, 2001
I just finished fabricating the FL-406A, B and C flap actuator pieces and have them fitted and drilled to the flaps. A 1/4" hole is supposed to be drilled through the FL-406B and C assembly. On drawing 14 it says to drill this hole after assembly. Does this mean after assembling the B to the C bracket or after assembly of the flap or after assembly of fuselage when ready to install flap actuator rod. The manual does not mention to hold off (or drill) this hole. Are RV-8 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Schlosser" <kevinschlosser(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Pictures of RV's in the Bahamas
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Also, now your RV's have their SCUBA endorsement! :-) Curious about the carb heat here too. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Thompson Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 9:55 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Pictures of RV's in the Bahamas > Despite the mosquitos we all had a great time. I burned something > like 41 hours to and from with only a broken carb heat cable. > Everything else was just gas and oil. Beautiful pics, Laird... but the important question is, how and why did your carb heat cable break? :) Mike Thompson Austin, TX (a lot closer) -6 N140RV (Reserved) Firewall Forward ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Schlosser" <kevinschlosser(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder fix
Date: Jun 13, 2001
Do the new kits have this welded spline on the back of the pedals done already? -< PropellerHead >- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2001
From: old ogre <jollyd(at)teleport.com>
Subject: tow bar?
has anyone "invented" a tow bar for the nose gear of a RV8A?...it sure would come RV8A finishing, finishing, finis.....h.....i..... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com>
Subject: Builder-wannabe Wants to Visit
Date: Jun 14, 2001
Forgot to mention, Columbia Owens Downtown airport referenced in earlier email is in Columbia, SC. James -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dwight Frye Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 4:16 PM Subject: RV-List: Builder-wannabe Wants to Visit I am looking for folks with RVs in progress, or completed, who will tolerate a newbie coming out for a look. :) I realize none of you know me as I have been lurking (off and on) on this list for years now, but not posting 'cause I'm not yet building. So, I'll take a moment to give a little background. While I am not building yet, the time draws nearer. It looks like circumstances may allow me to start building this year. (Yeah, I know, "this year" is a pretty nebulous metric ... but for me money/family/job all have to align well enough for me to start, and it looks like they will within the year.) Therefore, I am getting more focussed on deciding what I want to build, and whether I am even capable of completing a project of this size. To help me figure out if I can build or not I have even taken a few of the Alexander SportAir classes ... and loved 'em. I have looked at both Velocitys and RVs. While 4 seats are a bit tempting, and I love the look of the Velocity, the reality is that it looks MUCH more expensive to complete and more often than not I fly with just myself and -maybe- one other person along for the ride. I have flown 2 and 3 other folks both in the Cherokee 180 we used to own, and the Cessna 182 I rent now ... but even with that said, I mainly fly just for -me-. Therefore, for now, two will do. And, I confess, I truly love the look of the RVs. And I want to be able to do some sport aerobatics. And .. and .. well, I think this crowd likely gets the idea without me having to say more. :) To that end, finding folks who are building (or who have completed) RV projects so I can understand better what I might be getting myself into. I visited Van's about 4 years ago, got the factory tour, have looked at the info pack they provide, and have spent way-too-many hours on the web looking at builder's pages. (For all the time I have spent reading about it ... I think I could have completed one!) I am going to be in the San Jose area this upcoming weekend and have time to kill on Saturday. Are any of you in the SF bay area? I'll have a car, know the bay area fairly well, and am not afraid to drive. :) I live in central North Carolina, and am also wanting to find folks in the NC/SC/VA area who might welcome a visit. I am familiar with the "RV White Pages", but hesitate (for some reason) to just call some poor sucker out of the blue and introduce myself. So, I thought I would first post a public request here. So, how about it? Anyone up for a visit?? -- Dwight ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com>
Subject: Builder-wannabe Wants to Visit
Date: Jun 14, 2001
Stop by Columbia Owens Downtown Airport (KCUB) anytime after 6PM on weekdays and just about anytime before midnight on weekends. Three (3) RV6/RV6A's and one RV7 (just starting) under construction. In our little gang there are several other RV6/6A's, at least one RV9A and at least an RV7A under way. The RV7A builder has built and Rv6, and RV6A and an RV8. The RV9A builder has built an RV6A. Our technical advisor is building an RV6 (might fly this year). James RV6A (not so) QB [cowling] p.s. Ask for James, Ken or Patty .. or just "those folks building the airplanes" -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dwight Frye Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 4:16 PM Subject: RV-List: Builder-wannabe Wants to Visit I am looking for folks with RVs in progress, or completed, who will tolerate a newbie coming out for a look. :) I realize none of you know me as I have been lurking (off and on) on this list for years now, but not posting 'cause I'm not yet building. So, I'll take a moment to give a little background. While I am not building yet, the time draws nearer. It looks like circumstances may allow me to start building this year. (Yeah, I know, "this year" is a pretty nebulous metric ... but for me money/family/job all have to align well enough for me to start, and it looks like they will within the year.) Therefore, I am getting more focussed on deciding what I want to build, and whether I am even capable of completing a project of this size. To help me figure out if I can build or not I have even taken a few of the Alexander SportAir classes ... and loved 'em. I have looked at both Velocitys and RVs. While 4 seats are a bit tempting, and I love the look of the Velocity, the reality is that it looks MUCH more expensive to complete and more often than not I fly with just myself and -maybe- one other person along for the ride. I have flown 2 and 3 other folks both in the Cherokee 180 we used to own, and the Cessna 182 I rent now ... but even with that said, I mainly fly just for -me-. Therefore, for now, two will do. And, I confess, I truly love the look of the RVs. And I want to be able to do some sport aerobatics. And .. and .. well, I think this crowd likely gets the idea without me having to say more. :) To that end, finding folks who are building (or who have completed) RV projects so I can understand better what I might be getting myself into. I visited Van's about 4 years ago, got the factory tour, have looked at the info pack they provide, and have spent way-too-many hours on the web looking at builder's pages. (For all the time I have spent reading about it ... I think I could have completed one!) I am going to be in the San Jose area this upcoming weekend and have time to kill on Saturday. Are any of you in the SF bay area? I'll have a car, know the bay area fairly well, and am not afraid to drive. :) I live in central North Carolina, and am also wanting to find folks in the NC/SC/VA area who might welcome a visit. I am familiar with the "RV White Pages", but hesitate (for some reason) to just call some poor sucker out of the blue and introduce myself. So, I thought I would first post a public request here. So, how about it? Anyone up for a visit?? -- Dwight ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2001
From: David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: alternator for RV-4
Larry: If you want a high quality alternator that will fit, comes with all the mounting hardware and is being used with success by many RV builders. Go to http://www.niagaraairparts.com/ You will find a 40amp altenator for $225.00 Good people to deal with also. Dave Aronson RV4 N504RV Cowling final touches Larry Hawkins wrote: > > > I almost hate to ask for fear of being flamed but I have been reading the > archives for 2 hours and can't find the answers. I am looking for an > alternator to fit in an RV-4 without doing unthinkable things to the cowl. I > need less than 40 amps and I don't have a problem using an internally > regulated alternator. I vaguely remember some posts about using a Honda or > Suzuki unit. > Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, finishing. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder fix
Date: Jun 13, 2001
I'll add another data point -- a buddy of mine who's flown his RV-6 about 400 hours recently checked and found cracks. Based on this and other posts I think it should be clear whether to do it or not. The only real question is when. The SB came out about the time I got my plane flying. I inspected every 10 hours for the first 75 then took it into the paint shop and did the mod while it was in there although there were never any cracks. I'd agree that it was a pain (isn't it always a pain having to go underneath the panel?) but we've all been through a lot worse -- shoot, we installed our canopies and cowls didn't we? Took me about about 2 hours to get em out, another 2 to put em back in. Your mileage will vary depending on how your cables and wires are run, etc. Someone else asked whether the tabs are on the pedals currently shipping -- the answer is yes. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs) Portland, OR www.vanshomewing.org ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: IFR Avionics Advice
Date: Jun 14, 2001
(Excuse me while I climb up on my soap box... those who've heard my rant on this before just hit delete....) Bear in mind that if you buy a Garmin box for your unfinished RV, the warranty will probably run out before you ever have a chance to use it. Unless they've changed their policy, their 1 year from time of purchase warranty is pretty useless to us homebuilders. For that reason alone I'd be inclined to look hard at getting UPS even though they don't have have the neat all-in-one color box. Their warranty is 28 months from the time you first put it into service. My advice is to call Garmin and tell them you're thinking about putting a 430 or whatever in your homebuilt but are have reservations about the fact that the warranty will expire before you get it in the air. If more people do this maybe they'll be inclined to change this homebuilder-unfriendly policy of theirs. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs) Portland, OR www.vanshomewing.org ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2001
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Flap actuator assembly
> >I just finished fabricating the FL-406A, B and C flap actuator pieces and >have them fitted and drilled to the flaps. >A 1/4" hole is supposed to be drilled through the FL-406B and C assembly. On >drawing 14 it says to drill this hole after assembly. Does this mean after >assembling the B to the C bracket or after assembly of the flap or after >assembly of fuselage when ready to install flap actuator rod. >The manual does not mention to hold off (or drill) this hole. > >Are >RV-8 Wings Are, Drill the hole after you have assembled the two pieces. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jun 14, 2001
Subject: Re: IFR Avionics Advice
> So, I was thinking on a KX155 w/ KI209 indicator. This way I can do > VOR/LOC/ILS approaches. That's what I did. I won't use Narco products because of their consumer-hostile service policy (they won't provide parts to independent avionics shops) and the generally rotten luck I've had with their equipment in the past. >Will I also need an audio Panel w/ marker > beacons or will it depend on the approach? (probably a rookie > question....) I built an RST marker beacon receiver, but I had some problems getting the thing tuned properly. I just leave it off. There used to be altitude penalties on approaches if the MB was inop, but there aren't any more. If I had it to do over again, I'd either buy a "real" MB receiver or just do without it. > Now this does not give me a DME or an ADF. So my next question is > should I get an IFR moving map GPS (I assume I can use these for DME > and an ADF if necessary?) or save the $3K for my next plane? If this > is the case, should I just go and get a used Garmin GNS430 (instead of > the 155 w/GS and the IFR moving map) since it would be about the same > price? If I get the Garmin, do I need an external indicator also? The 430 is a beautiful piece of work, but there is the warranty issue that someone else mentioned, if you buy new. If you can buy a used one, with some level of support, that would be ideal. I chose to panel mount a Garmin 195 handheld. It has approaches in it's database, but is not TSO'd for IFR. There's been considerable discussion about what you can and cannot use it for while IFR (see the archives). I think it's a gray area. I think the 195 gives me everything I need, but the 430 would be very nice to have. Tim Lewis ****** Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99 http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a ****** ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Keith and Jean Williams" <kandjwilliams(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: IFR Avionics Advice
Date: Jun 14, 2001
-----Original Message----- "So, I was thinking on a KX155 w/ KI209 indicator. This way I can do VOR/LOC/ILS approaches..." ------------ Mike - I'm using the KX155 and KI209 (I think its a KI209) combo with a separate King marker beacon receiver. Works fine for ILS. One caution. The indicator I used is the least expensive King model. It has glide slope but will not accept multiple switched inputs. Seeemed OK in 1992 when I bought it. Years later I added a panel mount GPS and attempted to get the King indicator to work as the mechanical CDI required for enroute IFR GPS. (I was just going to add my own warning lights.) No go, as best I could learn then. I found that I needed the higher end King indicator to be able to switch it between GPS and regular VOR inputs. I don't have room for another CDI so am still an active user of the VORs. I seem to remember that the more expensive King indicator would have done the job. Its been a couple of years since I last checked into this and things may have changed. But its but worth considering. It may be that the higher end indicator would be a better choice for you. Keith Williams RV6 Moline, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rv8don(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 14, 2001
Subject: Re: IFR Avionics Advice
If your concerned about the Garmin 430 warranty issue, buy the install kit which includes all the hardware and mounting tray,. Do all the mechanical work, get the wiring harness done, and then buy the radio in anytime you want. Matter of fact, if any of the other guys, like UPS, King, Narco (gag) will sell you the install kit before you buy the radio this would be a good strategy. This is what I did for my 430. -Don RV8 NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wes" <whays(at)camalott.com>
Subject: Re: IFR Avionics Advice
Date: Jun 14, 2001
Mike, FWIW, I used the KI155 and the KI209A GS/VOR/LOC head coupled to the UPSAT GX60 via the Mid-Continent MD41-724 GPS Annunciation Control Unit. It is working well so far. The 209A had its own relays so the GPS could be wired direct to the 209A with the annunciator lights and switch only wired to the MD41. Only a few wiring glitches but King, UPSAT and Mid-Continent helped work those out. I am very satisfied so far. Wes Hays RV6-A N844WB (Flying) Winters, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lenleg(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 14, 2001
Subject: Re: Builder-wannabe Wants to Visit
Dwight: We have lots of builders here in North Carolina. Several builders in the Raleigh area, several in the Greensboro-Winston Salem area, Charlotte area. We have a RV building group in the Triad that we call RVGOT. We meet once every two months at someones project. We have several RV-8s almost ready to fly. We are having a meeting this weekend on Saturday at 1:00pm at a builders home in Danville Virginia. He is finishing up his wiring. You can visit Larry Bowens website and see more about our goup. www.bowenaero.com You are welcome to see my project any time. 336-434-2124 work 336-605-4762 home Len Leggette, RV-8A Greensboro, N.C. N910LL (res) Hooking up systems ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Odyssey Battery
Date: Jun 14, 2001
Last week someone posted a real steal for an Odyssey battery. It was something like $79 with free shipping. I copied the info but seem to have lost it. Any info would be appreciated. Please reply off list as I receive daily summaries of the list and would not get an on list reply until tomorrow. Thanks, Don Mei RV-4 N92CT 3B9 Chester, CT (Motivation rides for any builder) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 14, 2001
Subject: Re: alternator for RV-4
In a message dated 6/13/01 2:40:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lhawkins(at)giant.com writes: > > I almost hate to ask for fear of being flamed but I have been reading the > archives for 2 hours and can't find the answers. I am looking for an > alternator to fit in an RV-4 without doing unthinkable things to the cowl. I > need less than 40 amps and I don't have a problem using an internally > regulated alternator. I vaguely remember some posts about using a Honda or > Suzuki unit. > Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, finishing. > > > Nippo-Denso off a Chevy Sprint works great and they are small, light weight and not very expensive. Note that the Nippo-Denso also is used on Honda, Suzuki, and many other foreign cars. Hope this helps ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2001
Subject: Re: transponder/marker antenna
From: "Denis (Bum) Walsh" <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net>
on 6/13/01 19:38, ABAYMAN(at)aol.com at ABAYMAN(at)aol.com wrote: > > Dear listers: > Since I have my battery up high on the inside firewall, I was wondering if I > could put my transponder and marker beacon antenna between the 2 exhaust > pipes through the bottom of the floor. I don't have a battery box in the way, > and the wiring would be very easy, I'm concerned about the heat and or > interference the 2 exhaust pipes might give. but I think it would be out of > the airsteam there behind the scoop and between the pipes. > What do you experts think? > Scott > Tampa > RV 6 A building again. Mine's about three inches in front of the fuel selector. Works good and lasts long time. DLW ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 14, 2001
Subject: Re: Builder-wannabe Wants to Visit
In a message dated 6/14/01 6:24:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dwight(at)openweave.org writes: > > Wow .... I must say, you RV builders sure are welcoming. I now > have plans to visit out in San Jose on Saturday, and a whole > collection of "excuses to go flying" here closer to home. Your > welcome is most appreciated. > > Oh, and I ordered my RV-7 preview plans today. :) I suspect > this is just the first of many orders I place with Van's. > > Thanks! > > -- Dwight > > Friends don't let friends build plastic airplanes ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2001
From: "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: Pictures of RV's in the Bahamas
Mike, Looks like there was a little binding of flap assy and the wire at the full closed position was bending and that probably stressed it. That cable has also just been replaced at the time I did the conversion to the CS prop. Pop did the installation and I didn't get a close real look at it before buttoning it back up. The wire broke right where it comes out of the collet. It had been working fine up until we replaced it due to some friction in the cable. Anyway it was no big deal. Laird From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 7:10 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Pictures of RV's in the Bahamas > Despite the mosquitos we all had a great time. I burned something > like 41 hours to and from with only a broken carb heat cable. > Everything else was just gas and oil. Beautiful pics, Laird... but the important question is, how and why did your carb heat cable break? :) Mike Thompson Austin, TX (a lot closer) -6 N140RV (Reserved) Firewall Forward ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: IFR Avionics Advice-Garmin
Date: Jun 14, 2001
A question on this. Is it possible to get around this by buying just the mounting hardware and documentation from Garmin? It seems that this would be a way for them to show a spirit of cooperation with the homebuilding movement. They have a booth at Oshkosh, and if enough people mention that this is holding them back from buying a 430 something might be done. Steve Johnson RV-8 A couple of years from having to worry about avionics ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 2:06 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR Avionics Advice > > Bear in mind that if you buy a Garmin box for your unfinished RV, the > warranty will probably run out before you ever have a chance to use it. > Unless they've changed their policy, their 1 year from time of purchase > warranty is pretty useless to us homebuilders. For that reason alone I'd be > inclined to look hard at getting UPS even though they don't have have the > neat all-in-one color box. Their warranty is 28 months from the time you > first put it into service. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.)
Date: Jun 14, 2001
Subject: Re: alternator for RV-4
I have a Mark Landol (Yellow Pages) alternator on 4 with over 400 hours.Very competitive prices.works great! Bob Murphy Poplar Grove ILL. (C77) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: IFR Avionics Advice
Date: Jun 14, 2001
> If your concerned about the Garmin 430 warranty issue, buy the install kit > which includes all the hardware and mounting tray,. Good point Don. I know Van's sells King mounting trays and harnesses separately from the radios for this reason. Still, I prefer to do business with companies that back up their products with a good warranty. Been bitten by the "1 month out of warranty" bug one too many times I guess. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs) Portland, OR www.vanshomewing.org ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2001
From: "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Pictures of RV's in the Bahamas
I had exactly the same failure of my carb heat cable on a flight to PRC. I replaced it with the same kind of cable, i.e., a straight wire end with a wire grip on it, while waiting for a different cable on special order from ACS. The new cable will have a 10-32 end and a flexible joint. My wire end also parted at the wire grip, presumably due to metal fatigue induced by bending. Best wishes, Jack Abell "Owens, Laird" wrote: > look at it before buttoning it back up. The wire broke right where it comes out of the collet. It had been working fine up until we ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2001
Subject: Re: Builder-wannabe Wants to Visit
From: Rich Corbett-MacJ <richcorbett(at)mac.com>
Dwight and all, Nice to hear the welcome wagon is out there. I'm in a similar boat Dwight, but have not been looking as long as you. (my patience isn't that long) Actually I'm sitting the fence on deciding on fabric or metal ... building experience is zero either way. I'm experiencing the skill, $$$ and time factor decision; although most production kits have come a long way. I've been poking my nose in on a few folks but none have 'clicked' yet. I personally think that a choice of plane will be based on finding someone who has forged ahead of me in my new location as I'm a transplant to the Cincinnati-Dayton, OH area. I do enjoy this list. Rich ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2001
From: Garry LeGare <"versadek"@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: transponder/marker antenna
I put my transponder antenna inside my air box . Take a look it will work and there is no down side. Garry LeGare, RV6 Feds moved to 29th June ABAYMAN(at)aol.com wrote: > > Dear listers: > Since I have my battery up high on the inside firewall, I was wondering if I > could put my transponder and marker beacon antenna between the 2 exhaust > pipes through the bottom of the floor. I don't have a battery box in the way, > and the wiring would be very easy, I'm concerned about the heat and or > interference the 2 exhaust pipes might give. but I think it would be out of > the airsteam there behind the scoop and between the pipes. > What do you experts think? > Scott > Tampa > RV 6 A building again. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Are Barstad <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Builder-wannabe Wants to Visit
Date: Jun 14, 2001
Why don't you go with both? Metal airframe and fabric seats... :) Any RV will do! Are RV-8 Wings > > Actually I'm sitting the fence on deciding on fabric or metal ... building ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: tow bar?
Date: Jun 14, 2001
Dave & I ordered the Deluxe Cessna towbar from Sporty's ($48) and it works like a champ. Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A (Wings on - final wiring) Niantic, CT (Westerly, RI airport) >From: old ogre <jollyd(at)teleport.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: "RV-8-List (E-mail)" >Subject: RV-List: tow bar? >Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:02:24 -0700 > > >has anyone "invented" a tow bar for the nose gear of a RV8A?...it sure >would come > >RV8A finishing, finishing, finis.....h.....i..... > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2001
From: "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: RE: 12 inch N-numbers??
Mark, 12" numbers are required while flying thru the ADIZ off the coast. We just put temporary 12" numbers made of vinyl tape before flying thru that airspace. BTW, customs didn't check to see if we had 12" numbers. Laird RV-6 SoCal PS Mark, I sent this to the list because my email to you bounced again. Your the only one I can't get a message thru to. Hummmm..... From: menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com on Thu, Jun 14, 2001 7:29 AM Subject: 12 inch N-numbers?? Hi Laird, Nice pics of your trip. One question though, I thought to go offshore (to the Bahamas or elsewhere) you had to have 12 inch N-numbers. I noticed in your pics that none of the three RV's in your trip had the big N-numbers. Am I mistaken? Thanks, --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A fuselage....maybe I'll put 3 inch N-numbers on afterall....? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Builder-wannabe Wants to Visit
Date: Jun 14, 2001
> > >Yeah...you always give them the first hit free.....then, once they're an >addict...you own them for life. Welcome to the addiction. > >Bill <----blames Rick Caldwell and Bill Plunk for his addiction.... >-4 wings Yes indeedy! I now have TWO official referrals to Van's for new customers, with the associated $100 checks that sweeten the deal. My third is on the way, and a fourth is due very soon as well. Hey, you guys think Van's would someday need a regional sales rep? I can use a career change. :) Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2001
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: tow bar?
In a message dated Thu, 14 Jun 2001 1:00:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Charles Rowbotham" writes: I ordered the Deluxe Cessna towbar from Sporty's ($48) and it works like a champ.>> That's even better than having a Champ towbar that works like a Cessna. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2001
From: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)ticnet.com>
Subject: Battery Replacement Criteria
In my aviation Notes regarding BATTERIES are two items: ONE. Charged RG battery should show 14.4 to 14.8v. To check battery in flight, turn off nonessential items and the alternator, then time the battery to 11.4v. Two hours is desirable; maybe one hour, passing; otherwise replace the battery. TWO. For reliability, do capacity check on RG battery each six months and discard when down to 50%. For item TWO, would 50% be 7v? This would seemingly be a much longer test than item ONE assuming in-flight testing? How do you experienced flyers check your battery and how often? Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas -6A flying past 360 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: tow bar?
Date: Jun 14, 2001
George, With prose like that - Corsair better watch out for the competion! Chuck >From: Vanremog(at)aol.com >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: tow bar? >Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:10:57 EDT > > >In a message dated Thu, 14 Jun 2001 1:00:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >"Charles Rowbotham" writes: > > > >I ordered the Deluxe Cessna towbar from Sporty's ($48) and it works >like a champ.>> > >That's even better than having a Champ towbar that works like a Cessna. > >-GV > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rpflanze(at)iquest.net
Date: Jun 14, 2001
Subject: Pictures of RV's in the Bahamas
This is a known failure that has occurred to many, many others. (see archives) Although some folks have been flying for some time with the collets, the current thinking is to use a "B" nut from AC$ on the carb heat arm. I currently have a collet installed but will be switching over to the "B" nut during my annual. If you're not to that point on your project, the "B" nut solution is simple, quick, inexpensive, and it works. Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 (150 hours, down for annual) > >The wire broke right where it comes out of the collet. It had >been working fine up until we replaced it due to some friction >in the cable. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2001
From: "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: IFR Avionics Advice
Hi Mike, You seem to be getting a lot of advice and answers to your IFR questions. Here's one more input, FWIW. I installed a five-box package in my RV-6A: (a) audio panel, intercom, marker beacon receiver (UPSAT), (b) IFR approach-certified GPS/Com (UPSAT GX60), (c) Nav/Com (KX165), (d) DME (KN64), and (e) transponder (KN64). This package enables me to fly an IAP into every one of the 375 airports in the 11 Western states that have at least one published IAP, or that did in September 1999. As of that time, there were 1418 published IAPs in the set of 11 states west of the column of states from North Dakota to Texas: 232 ILS, LOC, and LDAs; 632 GPSs; 395 VORs; and 159 NDBs. Among those 375 airports at the same time: 141 had one or more ILS, LOC, or LDAs; 363 had one or more GPSs; 268 had one or more VORs; and 146 had one or more NDBs. Another pertinent fact is that only 293 airports had at least one ILS, LOC, LDA, or VOR IAP; 363 had at least one GPS. IMHO, a compelling argument emerges from these data: (a) an IFR approach-certified GPS/Com in addition to a VOR/Com is a far better solution than two VOR/Coms in terms of your access to airports under IFR. Another issue to consider is that a Garmin 430 might be affected by non-independence, i.e., the failure of one component might affect the operation of the other (I don't know this but only offer it as something to ask someone about). An ADF is not a component in which you should invest, in my opinion, if you invest in an IFR approach-certified GPS; however, if you live in a section of the country where there are many airports with only NDB IAPs with no GPS Phase III or GPS overlays, you should probably undertake an analysis of your own to assess the utility of an ADF. I am doubtful that you will find it cost/effective unless you live in Australia or someplace. I hope you find these thoughts helpful. Best wishes, Jack Abell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: Pictures of RV's in the Bahamas
Date: Jun 14, 2001
Laird, Your "almost there" picture with the Carribean and the runway has just become my new wallpaper. Sounds like you had a wonderful time. Can you tell us more about your destination, I'd like to know where you went. I used to live on Eluthera in the Bahamas and I've always dreamed of flying back. I never learned much about the other islands. -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA Network Adminstrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 "Fear of failure is only for the weak and arrogant, for those who foolishly think that somehow they can achieve success without paying the price." -----Original Message----- From: Owens, Laird [mailto:Owens(at)aerovironment.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 3:28 PM Subject: RV-List: Pictures of RV's in the Bahamas Hi all, I've just finally got some pic's of the trip a couple of us took to the Bahamas up on the web. I'm trying to write a complete story about it, but it's low on the priority list. I'm lucky just to get the pictures up. Anyway some of the highlights. I flew from LA and was supposed to meet up with Jim/Vicki Baker (Goodland, KS) and Gary/Caroline Zilik (Denver, CO) in Goodland and fly down with them. Weather prevented me from getting up to Goodland, so I took the low route thru Texas. We met up in Florida and flew to Pittstown Point that day. Flying over the that much water was an adventure, but no problems were encountered. We did have to fly around one thunderstorm at Andros Island on the way. We landed at Pittstown in the late afternoon in a light drizzle and a billion mosquitos. The mosquitos were the only real problem the whole trip. I'll let the photos tell the rest of the story for now. You can see those at the SoCal site at: http://members3.clubphoto.com/socal230330/ Despite the mosquitos we all had a great time. I burned something like 41 hours to and from with only a broken carb heat cable. Everything else was just gas and oil. All I can say is what a great little airplane (and one that my father and I built). How cool. I don't know how many times along the way I looked at the GPS ground speed and just grinned. This was one of the trips I was dreaming about while smashing rivets. Now what's next....... Keep pounding those rivets. It's all worth it. Laird RV-6 260 hrs SoCal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2001
From: "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: Broken Carb Heat Cable
Hi Randy, The collet method worked for 250 hrs. It wasn't until we did some work (replacing the cable) on it did it break. Since I didn't do the 2nd installation (or repair) I'm not sure if it was a installation problem or a systematic problem. Pop did mention that he thought it was the flapper valve that was causing the collet to bend out of plane slightly causing the preload in the wire. He said he fixed that binding. We just moved the cable up a little and reinstalled the collet. We'll see if it fails again. I'm not sure that the collet system is a bad system, and personally I've never liked the bug nut system ever since the early days of RC models when I had a couple of failures there leading to loss of control and a smashed model. (I know that they weren't allow thru "techinspection" at the races I competed in). At least a failure of the carb heat is probably not fatal unless you just happen to get carb ice at the same time your cable is broke, and you get forced down somewhere, and .... I'm sure it's probably happened somewhere in the history of aviation. Laird From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Thu, Jun 14, 2001 10:59 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Pictures of RV's in the Bahamas This is a known failure that has occurred to many, many others. (see archives) Although some folks have been flying for some time with the collets, the current thinking is to use a "B" nut from AC$ on the carb heat arm. I currently have a collet installed but will be switching over to the "B" nut during my annual. If you're not to that point on your project, the "B" nut solution is simple, quick, inexpensive, and it works. Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 (150 hours, down for annual) > >The wire broke right where it comes out of the collet. It had >been working fine up until we replaced it due to some friction >in the cable. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2001
Subject: Re: RV-6 canopy frame
From: Don R Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
I used 5/8 wood blocks taped to the 668 & 3/4 in taped to the bow (not the roll bar so you can open it.) I used 3/4 angles clamped from the 601 over the 668 for the heighth. I used furnature clamps & lots of wood blockes for the bow to roll bar to align everything. you will need 1/8 shims for the sides on the arm pit bar. I would drill the aft ends of the sides to the bow first. then nail down the front & the 2 side splices. My frame moved out after I got the glass done. I did NOT try it,but I would put a 2x2 in the middle screwed from the outside through the sides. After the glass is drilled I think you could remove them before you install the side skins. Don Jordan - 6A - N6DJ Arlington, TX ********************************* writes: > > Does anyone have any supplemental notes for a tip up canopy? > > I understand the concept (I think) but actually fitting the > canopy frame > and getting it clamped into place is turning out to be more > difficult than I > thought from reading the plans. Everything seems to be off just a > little, > and I'm not sure how to get it to fit, or if it's not important. > Anyway, if > you guys could point me in th eright direction, I'd appreciate it. > > Keith Hughes > RV-6 > Parker, CO > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Eugene Fly-In Aug 25th
Date: Jun 14, 2001
The Eugene Area RV Builders Group and EAA Chapter 31 are please to announce the Second Annual Eugene Area Fly-In and Forum: A Fly-In with Purpose promoting Beauty, Speed, Efficiency, and Safety website: http://home.earthlink.net/~wallyander/flyin.html S p e c i a l G u e s t s Tracy Saylor: Maker of the worlds fastest stock 180 hp RV-6 will speak on how to increase the speed and efficiency of your aircraft Tyler Feldman: Oshkosh, Sun n' Fun & Arlington Grand Champion RV-6 builder will speak on the making of an award-winning aircraft. Len Fox: Navy Test Pilot and currently one of Vans Test Pilots will talk on First Flights and Flight Testing Procedures. Van's Aircraft: Vans Aircraft staff will bring the RV-7 and RV-9 for demo rides. WHERE: Eugene Municipal Airport Eugene, Oregon (EUG) South end near control tower Wally & Hank Anderson's Hanger (east of Flightcraft) WHEN: Saturday, August 25, 10am - 3pm WHAT: Lunch & Informational Forums COST: $10 - Includes BBQ Lunch (the $10 cover charge will be collected to cover the cost of lunch and to help defray presenters travel cost.) Ross N9PT RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2001
From: "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: Pictures of RV's in the Bahamas
Scott, We went to Pittstown Point Landing on Crooked Island, part of the out islands. See: www.pittstownpointlanding.com We got there a little late, as the rainy season had just started (nobody told us!) and thus all the mosquitos. There were only 4 other customers there for a couple of days, so it was real quiet. The locals were very friendly, but you were a little captive there, as that's the only thing on the whole island. Lots of fresh fish for meals, but little in the way of choice. You kinda just got what they were cooking that day. Very laid back place. Not touristy at all. Plus the airplane and runway were 75 feet away. I took one of the locals for a flight around the island on one day. Jim put on a aerobatic demo one day. All the locals LOVED that. They'd come up to the group and ask "Are you the one doing the flips?". We'd all point at Jim and they'd want to shake his hand. Pretty cool. Of course, they expected a low pass on arrival and departure. They all came out to watch. Of course we obliged. I just snorkeled around mostly, but the others enjoyed the diving. None of us fished, but we did take an afternoon flight up to Stella Maris for lunch. We got harpooned by the taxi driver and ended up having a 1 mile taxi ride that cost more than lunch. The locals at Stella Maris seemed like they were all in a bad mood. It looked like a nice resort, but I'm not sure I'd go there. Seems like it might turn into a yearly adventure. I was the scout for the SoCal group who want to go next year. Eventually I'll post the complete story to Doug's web site. Laird From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Thu, Jun 14, 2001 12:03 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Pictures of RV's in the Bahamas Laird, Your "almost there" picture with the Carribean and the runway has just become my new wallpaper. Sounds like you had a wonderful time. Can you tell us more about your destination, I'd like to know where you went. I used to live on Eluthera in the Bahamas and I've always dreamed of flying back. I never learned much about the other islands. -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA Network Adminstrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 "Fear of failure is only for the weak and arrogant, for those who foolishly think that somehow they can achieve success without paying the price." -----Original Message----- From: Owens, Laird [mailto:Owens(at)aerovironment.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 3:28 PM Subject: RV-List: Pictures of RV's in the Bahamas Hi all, I've just finally got some pic's of the trip a couple of us took to the Bahamas up on the web. I'm trying to write a complete story about it, but it's low on the priority list. I'm lucky just to get the pictures up. Anyway some of the highlights. I flew from LA and was supposed to meet up with Jim/Vicki Baker (Goodland, KS) and Gary/Caroline Zilik (Denver, CO) in Goodland and fly down with them. Weather prevented me from getting up to Goodland, so I took the low route thru Texas. We met up in Florida and flew to Pittstown Point that day. Flying over the that much water was an adventure, but no problems were encountered. We did have to fly around one thunderstorm at Andros Island on the way. We landed at Pittstown in the late afternoon in a light drizzle and a billion mosquitos. The mosquitos were the only real problem the whole trip. I'll let the photos tell the rest of the story for now. You can see those at the SoCal site at: http://members3.clubphoto.com/socal230330/ Despite the mosquitos we all had a great time. I burned something like 41 hours to and from with only a broken carb heat cable. Everything else was just gas and oil. All I can say is what a great little airplane (and one that my father and I built). How cool. I don't know how many times along the way I looked at the GPS ground speed and just grinned. This was one of the trips I was dreaming about while smashing rivets. Now what's next....... Keep pounding those rivets. It's all worth it. Laird RV-6 260 hrs SoCal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2001
From: old ogre <jollyd(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: alternator for RV-4
can I ask a dumb question while we arte on the subject of alt's....mine also in a nippond...internal regulatoe..there are three wires coming out of the plug in the back of the alt...two are white, the other is black...which goes to which?...thanks MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 6/13/01 2:40:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > lhawkins(at)giant.com writes: > > > > > I almost hate to ask for fear of being flamed but I have been reading the > > archives for 2 hours and can't find the answers. I am looking for an > > alternator to fit in an RV-4 without doing unthinkable things to the cowl. I > > need less than 40 amps and I don't have a problem using an internally > > regulated alternator. I vaguely remember some posts about using a Honda or > > Suzuki unit. > > Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, finishing. > > > > > > > > Nippo-Denso off a Chevy Sprint works great and they are small, light weight > and not very expensive. Note that the Nippo-Denso also is used on Honda, > Suzuki, and many other foreign cars. > > Hope this helps > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: Fuel pump fitting question
Date: Jun 14, 2001
I am looking at the fuel/oil hose diagram that Van's puts in the manuals now. One part is listed as KB-090-T. Where can I find this fitting? Can't seem to find it in Wicks or Aircraft Sruce. -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA Network Adminstrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 "Fear of failure is only for the weak and arrogant, for those who foolishly think that somehow they can achieve success without paying the price." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com>
Subject: fluctuating fuel pressure
Date: Jun 14, 2001
Stewart, I have been following your fuel flow problem quite closely. I am currently installing an Air Flow Performance FI system on my 0-360 in my new RV-6A... so your problems are close to my heart... As I put my system together this week (necessitating 2 calls to the factory to ask questions about my silly fuel system routings), I am consistently amazed that the thing works in the first place, in that the fuel is expected to change directions about a dozen times, with no less than EIGHT 90 degree bends between the selector (including the selector itself) and the spider. In addition, there are several other changes in flow direction of 45 degrees or less, and then, to top it all off, we change the size of the tubing (from 6 to 4) after it goes through the flow meter. The entire time these hoses are wrapping all around this hot engine. (note to all, the system is absolutely first class, its just the plumbing that they leave up to us which has me scratching my back side). In listening to your problems, I can't help but think the culprit is in the tubing, and not the pumps. My background is in vascular surgery, so I'm always thinking about how fluids flow through small diameter pipes, often with sharp bends and "crud" in them. Another interesting (for me at least) part of my background was that my father owned a Datsun/Nissan dealership for many years. In 1974 the 240Z was changed to a 260Z, but what a dog! The hot summer days in central Florida saw one or two of those things coming into the dealership on the back of a hook every afternoon. The culprit? More emission control stuff was placed under the hood in 1974, and the engine compartment of these cars were always 40-60 degrees hotter than the preceding 240Zs. Just enough heat, and located near enough to the fuel lines that they got vapor lock. Not always, and typically not enough to shut down the entire car... just enough to make everybody worried and pissed. Back to airplanes: Its easier for me to say its not the pumps now that I know that your pumps are fine... , but my money has always been on the tubing, its bends, and internal flow characteristics (its always the problem with humans when we don't work right). An important point here, is that we cannot assume that in your application the liquid is always a liquid... (although we can assume this in the human body). In this situation you may have the following problem: gas traveling too close to a heat source, in an area which has a pipe diameter and length which is too big for its intended purpose. A size 6 pipe is probably not needed in your application since down stream it is a size 4... remember that you are fueling an O-320, and the same size 6 hose is used by AFP for their applications on O-360s, IO-540s, and even their applications for the big V8s and others! I think there is not enough flow through the size 6 hose near some bends which in turn are near some heat source. This adds up to a breakdown of laminar flow in the tube and subsequent bubbles vapors, etc. This is my theory on why you can't get it to do it on the ground... obviously not the right conditions. I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you examine the routing of your tubes and their proximity to a heat source (s). If your current fixes do not fix the problem, I would suggest you make your FWF hoses a size 4, at least make the one from the mechanical pump to the flow meter a size 4... and keep them shielded from heat. Then buy me a big cold beer some time after this fixes the problem. jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of RVer273sb(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 7:55 PM Subject: RV-List: fluctuating fuel pressure Listers, In case you were following this thread on fuel press problems on an injected 0-320 in my RV4. I have yet to determine a cause for this problem. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2001
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Battery Replacement Criteria
> >In my aviation Notes regarding BATTERIES are two items: > >ONE. Charged RG battery should show 14.4 to 14.8v. To check battery in >flight, turn off nonessential items and the alternator, then time the >battery to 11.4v. Two hours is desirable; maybe one hour, passing; >otherwise replace the battery. > >TWO. For reliability, do capacity check on RG battery each six months >and discard when down to 50%. > >For item TWO, would 50% be 7v? This would seemingly be a much longer >test than item ONE assuming in-flight testing? > >How do you experienced flyers check your battery and how often? > >Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas >-6A flying past 360 hours > Will, Have a look at the articles posted on Bob Nuckolls site. There is one that deals with the issue of battery capacity testing. http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/battest.pdf Bob Nuckolls has his own e-mail list now, the AeroElectric-List:, one of the many lists that Matt makes available. It is a great place to ask electrical type questions. You can subscribe from the Subscription link at the bottom of this e-mail. Take care, -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dgcan2(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 14, 2001
Subject: Re: Fuel pump fitting question
Fitting can be purchased from Van,s or aircraft spruce ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2001
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: fluctuating fuel pressure
Doctor Jim's vapour lock scenario sounds plausible to me. But, if this is the cause, it sounds like a problem between the electric boost pump and the mechanical pump, as the problem goes away when the boost pump is running. That section of line would be under suction when the boost pump is off, but at about 25 psi pressure when the pump is on. That pressure increase might be enough to force the vapour back to liquid form. So, I would take a close look at the plumbing heading into the mechanical fuel pump to make sure it is well clear of any heat sources. Additional heat shields might be in order. Good luck. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html > >Stewart, >I have been following your fuel flow problem quite closely. > >I am currently installing an Air Flow Performance FI system on my 0-360 in >my new RV-6A... so your problems are close to my heart... > >As I put my system together this week (necessitating 2 calls to the factory >to ask questions about my silly fuel system routings), I am consistently >amazed that the thing works in the first place, in that the fuel is expected >to change directions about a dozen times, with no less than EIGHT 90 degree >bends between the selector (including the selector itself) and the spider. >In addition, there are several other changes in flow direction of 45 degrees >or less, and then, to top it all off, we change the size of the tubing (from >6 to 4) after it goes through the flow meter. The entire time these hoses >are wrapping all around this hot engine. (note to all, the system is >absolutely first class, its just the plumbing that they leave up to us which >has me scratching my back side). > >In listening to your problems, I can't help but think the culprit is in the >tubing, and not the pumps. My background is in vascular surgery, so I'm >always thinking about how fluids flow through small diameter pipes, often >with sharp bends and "crud" in them. Another interesting (for me at least) >part of my background was that my father owned a Datsun/Nissan dealership >for many years. In 1974 the 240Z was changed to a 260Z, but what a dog! >The hot summer days in central Florida saw one or two of those things coming >into the dealership on the back of a hook every afternoon. The culprit? >More emission control stuff was placed under the hood in 1974, and the


June 08, 2001 - June 14, 2001

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