RV-Archive.digest.vol-ld
July 12, 2001 - July 17, 2001
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking Fiberglass |
Your standard #6 or #8 countersink cutters are
available for your microstop countersink tool. I
ordered the ones from cleveland, and have countersunk
alot of fiberglass with them, with no sign of dulling.
Just go slow, like you would countersink anything and
you will be fine. The beauty about tinnerman washers
is that the countersink doesn't have to be
pefect..they cover up mistakes really well :-)
====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Getting Close
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)velocitus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking Fiberglass |
I used the regular #6 & #8 countersinks. Fiberglass is really hard on them
though, so I used my old countersinks and dedicated them for just glass. I
have newer, sharper ones that I keep for aluminum.
Ed "bigger hammer" Bundy (and my own "Daisy") - RV6A N427EM 400+ hours
160hp 0320 w/Sensenich 70x78
Eagle, ID
ebundy(at)velocitus.net
> What is the method of choice to countersink for the #6 and #8 ?
> A hand held 1/2" drill bit or something like that ?
> I haven't got a clue what would do the job without hogging out a lot of
> material, 'cause if we don't hog it out, the washer will stand
proud..won't
> it ?
> Same with the spinner, but worse consequences....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Countersinking Fiberglass |
I used a countersink bit in my hand-operated de-burrer and just cranked away
until the fiberglass looked the way I wanted it to look. I had to put a
small block of plywood with a single hole drilled in it on the inside of the
wheel pants to keep the countersink bit centered.
Steve Soule
-----Original Message-----
What is the method of choice to countersink for the
#6 and #8 ?
A hand held 1/2" drill bit or something like that ?
I haven't got a clue what would do the job without hogging
out a lot of
material, 'cause if we don't hog it out, the washer will
stand proud..won't
it ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Collins" <steveco(at)houston.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Priming procedure |
I have my HS rear spar ready for my first attempt at priming. I've
spent hours reading the the archives on priming, but I still have some
questions.
My planned procedure is as follows:
1 - Use a spray bottle to spray on Alumiprep (diluted with 5 parts
water) and clean/scuff with Scotchbrite (gray pads for Alclad, red pads
for everything else)
2 - Rinse with water hose
3 - Use a sponge to apply Alodine
4 - Rinse with water hose
5 - Let dry (spray with compressed air to help)
6 - Spray on Dexter 463-12-8 epoxy primer (aka AKZO)
I have the following questions:
1 - I don't have the space or reasonable way to store any large "vats"
to use the dipping method for the Alumiprep and Alodine (although I may
be able to use some small tubs for small parts), so for most parts I was
planning to use the above procedure. And I was planning to do it in my
back yard. Is there any danger in hosing this stuff off in my back
yard? Envrionmentally, I'm sure it's not ideal. But what other options
do I have? Even if I captured all the rinse water, what would I do with
it? Will it kill my grass, or cause any other health/environmental
problems? On the Alodine bottle it says, "Contact with organic
materials may cause fire after evaporation of water". What does this
mean? I looked on Henkel's web site (company that produces Alumiprep
and Alodine I have ) and didn't find any useful information.
2 - Any problems spraying the primer in hot weather (I'm in Houston)?
3 - I have exposed metal on the powder-coated hinge brackets after
drilling, etc. (and have read some negative things in the archives about
the powder-coating), so I was hoping to use the same "AKZO" primer for
these parts. What's the procedure for prepp'ing them? Are there
products equivalent to Alumiprep and Alodine that I need to use? Do I
need to remove all the powder-coat that is still there, or just prep the
exposed metal, scuff the powder-coat and spray primer over the whole
thing?
Sorry for the long-winded questions. Any help would be much
appreciated.
Thanks,
-Steve
RV-7A, empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Priming procedure |
Steve,
You have a sound plan.
I used a spray (pump) bottle to spray large parts with alodine then spread
it around with a sponge. I used small tubs for the small parts. Obviously,
you will be wearing thick rubber gloves when doing this work, along with
safety glasses. I wiped the parts dry with a clean cotton T shirt & then air
dried an hr. or so before spraying the AZKO. I'm a few blocks from the beach
in central FL and had no problems with temp. or humidity.
I poured the used alodine on fire ant hills.
I fertilized the grass with the alumiprep. It's phosphate based, which
plants like. I didn't kill any grass & I don't have too many fire ants any
more.
I poured the excess primer in a cup & let it harden then throw away. I
always poured a small amount in a spice jar & froze it. I could then use a
q-tip and the primer was good to use for a couple days in touching up
drilled hole edges.
Rick Caldwell
-6 Melbourne, Fl
>From: "Steve Collins" <steveco(at)houston.rr.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Priming procedure
>Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:28:23 -0500
>
>
>I have my HS rear spar ready for my first attempt at priming. I've
>spent hours reading the the archives on priming, but I still have some
>questions.
>
>My planned procedure is as follows:
>1 - Use a spray bottle to spray on Alumiprep (diluted with 5 parts
>water) and clean/scuff with Scotchbrite (gray pads for Alclad, red pads
>for everything else)
>2 - Rinse with water hose
>3 - Use a sponge to apply Alodine
>4 - Rinse with water hose
>5 - Let dry (spray with compressed air to help)
>6 - Spray on Dexter 463-12-8 epoxy primer (aka AKZO)
>
>I have the following questions:
>1 - I don't have the space or reasonable way to store any large "vats"
>to use the dipping method for the Alumiprep and Alodine (although I may
>be able to use some small tubs for small parts), so for most parts I was
>planning to use the above procedure. And I was planning to do it in my
>back yard. Is there any danger in hosing this stuff off in my back
>yard? Envrionmentally, I'm sure it's not ideal. But what other options
>do I have? Even if I captured all the rinse water, what would I do with
>it? Will it kill my grass, or cause any other health/environmental
>problems? On the Alodine bottle it says, "Contact with organic
>materials may cause fire after evaporation of water". What does this
>mean? I looked on Henkel's web site (company that produces Alumiprep
>and Alodine I have ) and didn't find any useful information.
>2 - Any problems spraying the primer in hot weather (I'm in Houston)?
>3 - I have exposed metal on the powder-coated hinge brackets after
>drilling, etc. (and have read some negative things in the archives about
>the powder-coating), so I was hoping to use the same "AKZO" primer for
>these parts. What's the procedure for prepp'ing them? Are there
>products equivalent to Alumiprep and Alodine that I need to use? Do I
>need to remove all the powder-coat that is still there, or just prep the
>exposed metal, scuff the powder-coat and spray primer over the whole
>thing?
>
>Sorry for the long-winded questions. Any help would be much
>appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>-Steve
>RV-7A, empennage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 5-ship RV formation poster offer |
Thread-Topic: 5-ship RV formation poster offer
Thread-Index: AcELmlLHJSOFMjiiTzW2YtazyWHHfg=
| From: | "Reeves, Doug" <Douglas.Reeves(at)archongroup.com> |
Morning listers,
Ed Hicks is offering a 30"x20" poster (on photographic stock) of his
unbelievable 'Texas Five Stack' RV formation picture. You can learn
more about the picture as well as see a small digital version of it in
the 'In The News' section of http://www.vansaircraft.net. It would
make a nice gift.
Hope everybody has a great weekend,
Doug Reeves
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
http://www.vansaircraft.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Every Man A Tiger |
JusCash(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hey Andy, are you going to make this book available through the Builders
> Bookstore? I'd like to buy a copy.
>
I've already got a sample copy on order. If its as good as everyone is
saying, then Yes; it will be available through Builder's Bookstore.
Probably in a week or so. But I do want to see it before ordering 50
copies.
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
http://buildersbooks.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy spacers |
In a message dated 7/12/01 12:02:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com writes:
<< So the epoxy encapsulates the
washer/spacers? Did you do this with it clecoed in place or wait till the
end when the canopy was screwed and countersunk? Last thing, where the heck
do you find any nylon washers that size. I tried Sears, Lowes, and HD and
only metal ones. >>
Hi Eric,
Yes, the epoxy encapsulates the spacers. When you remove the canopy you see
the spacer embedded in the epoxy but the spacer is not seen with the canopy
in place.
The spacers were purchased at an ACE hardware store - found them in the misc.
hardware - those plastic boxes above the metal hardware with all the odd ball
stuff. Found about 3 thickness and stacked them to get the right dimension. I
did this with the canopy temporarily screwed in place after drilling and
tapping the frame for #6 screws. No reason you could not use/make metal
spacers to do the same thing.
Another idea I tried was to use layered multiple strips of . 032 aluminum
1/2" wide and vary the number of strips and the length of each to fill the
void. Was not happy with this but recently I saw a 6 slider where the builder
did this and it looked pretty good. After it was painted you really didn't
notice it that much - in less you were looking specifically at that area -
which we all do while we are building. IMHO it looked better than the only
the spacers. However, I have seen canopies that looked fine with only spacers
where only a few thin ones were needed.
Dale Ensing - another OSH is near and still not flying:(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Everyman A Tiger |
Best used book site on the planet. Recently bought out by Amazon, but they
listed 21 used copys, starting at $1.88.
bibliofind.com
Regards,
Don Mei
ADVERTISEMENT Our EAA Chapter is having our annual picnic at Westerly, RI
airport. (WST) Saturday starting at noon. All are welcome, bring a pot
luck dish, or some beer. (If not flying)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Arthur Glaser <airplane(at)megsinet.net> |
"rv-list(at)matronics.com" ,
"B. Keith Peshak" ,
"BSILVER05(at)aol.com" ,
Charles Reeves--dec 99 ,
Clay Smith , Colin Koebel ,
Cy Galley , Daniel Drelich ,
dhoop , doc ,
earl stark , Gary Glaser ,
greg , Jaugilas ,
Joy Otry , Kurt Faron ,
matt gibson ,
"mike.nellis(at)mcd.com" ,
"PascomCorp(at)aol.com" ,
"Pegit2(at)aol.com" , Phil Branshaw ,
"rnielsen(at)isd.net" , shakib a qutob ,
sue gregor , Charles Webber
| Subject: | pilots 10 commandments |
I found this in an old pile of papers.
Pilots Ten Commandments
1. Thou shalt abstain from the intersection takeoff for verily the
runway behind thee, as the altitude above thee, cometh not to thine aid
when thou needest them.
2. Thou shalt not linger on active runways lest thou become like unto
ground sirloin.
3. Ignorest thou not thy checklists for many are the switches, handles,
gauges, and other demons awaiting to take cruel vengeance upon thee.
4. Thou shalt cast thine eyes to thy right and also to thy left as thou
passeth through the firmament lest thy fellow pilots bring flowers to
thy widow and comfort her in other ways.
5. Buzzeth not, for this shall surely incur the wrath of thy neighbors
and the fury of the FAA shall be called down upon thy head.
6. Thou shalt be ever mindful of thy fuel lest there be nothing in thy
tank to sustain thee upon the air and thy days be made short.
7. Trust not thine eyes to lead thee through the cloud lest the
Archangel Gabrielle await thee therein.
8. Thou shalt not trespass into the thunderstorm lest the tempest rend
the wings from thy chariot and cast thee naked into the firmament.
9. Put not thy trust in weather prophets, from when he truth is not in,
then they shall not accompany thee among thy ancestors.
10. Often shalt thou confirm thine airspeed on final lest the earth rise
uup and smite thee.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Another dumb thing |
Fellow Listers:
Had a very interesting thing happen this morning. Bart LeLonde had advised
me every so often to spray fogging oil into the cylinders of my Aero Sport
engine. So this morning I did so. There are no plugs in the engine. I
removed the dehydrator plugs from the top cylinders and then sprayed the
fogging oil. I then pulled the prop through as usual. Just as the impulse
coupling tripped, POW a flash fire on the number 1 cylinder coming from the
plug hole!!!! Burned for only probably half a second, but it was about 1
foot diameter blue flame. That certainly woke me up!!! How could that
happen???
Well it dawned on me that one of the plug leads (which are hooked up at the
mag end) was just laying on top of the cylinder and apparently when the
impulse coupling tripped, the lead arced and ignited the fogging fumes
coming out of the cylinder (I do not have the mag switch hooked up yet, so
the mags are hot!!). So as I merrily pull the prop through, the impulse
coupling is sending high voltage through the leads unbeknownst to this
dummy.
Homebuilding is certainly educational.
BTW no harm done
Doug
================
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
I've just posted some more builder modifications to my web page that
some of you might be interested.
There was recently some discussion regarding floor insulation and
vibration dampening. Paul Golias made a modification using wood as the
subfloor.
I recently visited Tom Moskel's -6QB project and he had a couple of
interesting ideas and modifications to both his canopy latch mechanism
and the canopy jettison mechanism on his Tip-Up canopy.
http://bmnellis.com
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking Fiberglass |
Mornin Austin, heres my .02, I used a deburring bit dedicated for fiberglass
only in the hand deburring tool for all the fiberglass countersinks in my
bird. When it comes time for final assembly you can use it to ream things out
a little if the washers dont go down all the way.
Kevin
> Hi All,
> Dumb question #3 I guess.
> The wheel fairings are using recessed Tinnerman washers for the screws to
> hold the fairings together.
> What is the method of choice to countersink for the #6 and #8 ?
> A hand held 1/2" drill bit or something like that ?
> I haven't got a clue what would do the job without hogging out a lot of
> material, 'cause if we don't hog it out, the washer will stand proud..won't
> it ?
> Same with the spinner, but worse consequences....
> Any opinions ?
> Thanks for your help,
> Austin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Another dumb thing |
Did the FAA find the brown shorts?
> Fellow Listers:
>
> Had a very interesting thing happen this morning. Bart LeLonde had advised
> me every so often to spray fogging oil into the cylinders of my Aero Sport
> engine. So this morning I did so. There are no plugs in the engine. I
> removed the dehydrator plugs from the top cylinders and then sprayed the
> fogging oil. I then pulled the prop through as usual. Just as the impulse
> coupling tripped, POW a flash fire on the number 1 cylinder coming from the
> plug hole!!!! Burned for only probably half a second, but it was about 1
> foot diameter blue flame. That certainly woke me up!!! How could that
> happen???
>
> Well it dawned on me that one of the plug leads (which are hooked up at the
> mag end) was just laying on top of the cylinder and apparently when the
> impulse coupling tripped, the lead arced and ignited the fogging fumes
> coming out of the cylinder (I do not have the mag switch hooked up yet, so
> the mags are hot!!). So as I merrily pull the prop through, the impulse
> coupling is sending high voltage through the leads unbeknownst to this
> dummy.
>
> Homebuilding is certainly educational.
>
> BTW no harm done
>
> Doug
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Waalkes" <waalkes(at)netnitco.net> |
| Subject: | Unpainted AL Finish |
Can someone refer me to a builders web site that explains finishing an RV in
clear coat or other process to maintain the polished AL look? Any comments
on maintaining an a/c finished in that manner? Am I getting into something
I will regret?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Bob Waalkes
RV-8 Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrjb(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Home from Alaska and pictures on websites |
I am at home and was faced with over 1800 emails. Thought I had
unsubscribed before I left Fla last day of May for Lake Clark Alaska.
What a trip and what an airplane!! Throw in great weather after I got
north of Edmonton and great people!!! It is hard to imagine such a trip
in something that arrived here 4 years ago in 4 boxes. Keep pounding
those rivets.
I arrived in Memphis after 22 days of RVing. I stayed in a motel one
night, 2 nights in my tent (Cougar Landing), and one night on the FBO
floor in Palmer Alaska. All the other nights were with either previous
aquaintances or folks I met along the way. The airplane had 111 hours on
it when I did my first conditional inspection mid may and now has 176
hours. The Garmin trip odometer shows almost 11000 statue miles since I
left Fla. The cowling has not been off nor has the airplane given one
moments trouble(Thanks Van for a great design and kit). For a look at
some pictures and a very disjointed journal, go to Tracy and Laura
Crooks Web site : www.rotaryaviation.com and click on Bernie's
adventure.
If anyone is planning to fly to Alaska and want some of my input, feel
free to call me at 561-466-6701
Bernie Kerr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6160hp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wanted: RV4 Cowl in NY (or other finishing kit stuff) |
So Listers......any one coming to EAA 486 Forum KFZY, September in Fulton NY,
or send parts up with a friend who is...
Want to unload that extra RV4 cowl?..... Spinner?
That unused canopy frame?
Brakes..wheels any thing out of a finishing kit extra???
Let me know what you got.....
Slowing piecing the finishing kit together for the rest of the RV4 I got........
C'mon clean out your garage now....you've fallen over that stuff long enough...........
Thanks:
David McManmon
N58DM RV6 flying
(already have canopy, motor mount and gear legs, thanks).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: anyone we know? |
B. Reg. No.: 6GY M/M: EXP Desc: EXP-RV-6Activity: Pleasure Phase:
Approach GA-A/C: General AviationDescr: EXPERIMENTAL ACFT CRASHED BEHIND
TREES WHILE ON FINAL APPROACH TO THE RWY, TOMBALL, TX.WX: SPECI KDWH 122009Z
20007KT 10SM FEW050 33/23 A2995Damage: SubstantialC2. Injury Data: # Crew:
1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 1 Unk: # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0
Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: D.
Location. City: TOMBALL State: TX Country: USE. Event Date: 7/12/01 Time:
2004F. Invest Coverage. IIC: Reg/DO: SW09 DO City: HOUSTONDO State: TX
Others: NTSBG. Flt Handling. Dep Pt: HOUSTON, TX Dep Date: 7/12/01 Time:
1929Dest: HOUSTON, TX Last Radio Cont: SHRT FINAL 1/2 MILE Flt Plan:
NONELast Clearance: CLRD FOR OPTION WX Briefing: NOther:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Unpainted AL Finish |
Try this:
http://www.napanet.net/~arbeau/swift/polish.htm
Kevin
>
> Can someone refer me to a builders web site that explains finishing an RV
in
> clear coat or other process to maintain the polished AL look? Any comments
> on maintaining an a/c finished in that manner? Am I getting into something
> I will regret?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Unpainted AL Finish |
I remember hearing that the Airstream house trailer company sells something
that is used on their aluminum trailers which works on unpainted planes.
Steve Johnson
RV-8
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Waalkes" <waalkes(at)netnitco.net>
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 11:04 AM
Subject: RV-List: Unpainted AL Finish
>
> Can someone refer me to a builders web site that explains finishing an RV
in
> clear coat or other process to maintain the polished AL look? Any
comments
> on maintaining an a/c finished in that manner? Am I getting into
something
> I will regret?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>
> Bob Waalkes
> RV-8 Emp
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Unpainted AL Finish |
While growing up, more years ago than I care to think about, my parents
had an Airstream dealership. The Airstreams have a clear coat of
something that is sprayed on using an electrostatic spray system. I never
had much luck spraying it with a regular suction gun but the HVLP guns
might work. I won't be ready for paint for a couple of years but when the
time comes I plan to give Airstream, or one of their dealers with a repair
center a call to see what is currently being used. I have never seen an
Airstream with a bad factory clear coat.
If anyone checks into this let us all know.
Steve Eberhart
mailto:newtech(at)newtech.com
N14SE reserved
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are
easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author
On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Bob Waalkes wrote:
>
> Can someone refer me to a builders web site that explains finishing an RV in
> clear coat or other process to maintain the polished AL look? Any comments
> on maintaining an a/c finished in that manner? Am I getting into something
> I will regret?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>
> Bob Waalkes
> RV-8 Emp
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roy Vosberg <Roy.Vosberg(at)veritas.com> |
| Subject: | More primer questions |
Anyone have experience or knowledge of the following product? :
From the Valspar / Plasti-kote website:
Zinc Chromate Primer
Part # Description Size WT Pack UPC
2805N Zinc Chromate Green 16 oz. 12 oz. 6 0-71915-16233-6
Meets Military Specification: TT-P-1757A, Type II
http://www.plasti-kote.com/indust/template.cfm?product=zincchromate
I ran across this because I was searching for their marine coatings (which
I never found on their website). I was in the local Mill's Fleet Farm
store (MN and WI) and saw their marine coatings "vinyl chromate primer" on
the shelf for $11.99 a qt. The directions on the can were quite
complicated. It said wash with specific cleaner and then apply a prep
product (etching?) and wait a specified time, then use the primer and cover
with the approved top coating no more than 2 hours later. I did not find
the specified prep products at Fleet Farm.
I assume that since these are marine quality products they must be good????
Does anyone have experience with the Valspar marine coatings?
Roy Vosberg -6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Priming procedure |
> 1 - Use a spray bottle to spray on Alumiprep (diluted with 5 parts
> water) and clean/scuff with Scotchbrite (gray pads for Alclad, red pads
> for everything else)
> 2 - Rinse with water hose
> 3 - Use a sponge to apply Alodine
I use the spray bottle technique for Alumiprep and Alodine. No need for
vats. Spray bottles seem easier. Remember to pull the top off, dip the pick
up tube in water, and get the acids out of the spray mechanism at the end of
each session. Otherwise the next time you try to use it the pump won't work.
> 4 - Rinse with water hose
> 5 - Let dry (spray with compressed air to help)
> 6 - Spray on Dexter 463-12-8 epoxy primer (aka AKZO)
>
> I have the following questions:
> 1 - I don't have the space or reasonable way to store any large "vats"
> to use the dipping method for the Alumiprep and Alodine (although I may
> be able to use some small tubs for small parts), so for most parts I was
> planning to use the above procedure. And I was planning to do it in my
> back yard.
I did but over on a cement area. One nice Arbutus tree there that hasn't had
any side effects.
> 2 - Any problems spraying the primer in hot weather (I'm in Houston)?
Nope, it will just dry fast.
> 3 - I have exposed metal on the powder-coated hinge brackets after
> drilling, etc. (and have read some negative things in the archives about
> the powder-coating), so I was hoping to use the same "AKZO" primer for
> these parts. What's the procedure for prepp'ing them? Are there
> products equivalent to Alumiprep and Alodine that I need to use? Do I
> need to remove all the powder-coat that is still there, or just prep the
> exposed metal, scuff the powder-coat and spray primer over the whole
> thing?
I sanded off all the powdercoat from all the parts Van did for me. There
wasn't many like the current kits as I've had all my stuff for awhile. Van
was the wrong color for me. For what you describe, just go ahead and shoot
over the bits with exposed metal and carry on. You seem to be on the right
track, I can tell you are doing the right amount of research before you try
some thing new. The other thing you are doing right is asking questions. I
think you are going to have a fine airplane one day.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: anyone we know? |
--- ABAYMAN(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> B. Reg. No.: 6GY M/M: EXP Desc: EXP-RV-6Activity: Pleasure
> Phase:
> Approach GA-A/C: General AviationDescr: EXPERIMENTAL ACFT CRASHED
> BEHIND
> TREES WHILE ON FINAL APPROACH TO THE RWY, TOMBALL, TX.WX: SPECI KDWH
> 122009Z
> 20007KT 10SM FEW050 33/23 A2995Damage: SubstantialC2. Injury Data: #
> Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 1 Unk: # Pass: 0
Fat:
> 0 Ser: 0
From N-number search...
N-number : N6GY
Aircraft Serial Number : 23070
Aircraft Manufacturer : YOUNG GREGORY
Model : RV-6
Aircraft Year :
Owner Name : YOUNG GREGORY
Owner Address : 16931 MISTY CREEK DR
SPRING, TX, 77379-6438
Registration Date : 05-Apr-2000
Airworthiness Certificate Type : Not Specified
====
Michael E. Thompson (Grobdriver(at)yahoo.com)
Austin, TX, USA
RV-6 in progress, N140RV (Reserved)
EX-AX1 Sub Hunter, P-3 (B/B-TACMOD/C) Orion Aircrew,
PP-G,ASEL, Motorglider Driver and Unlimited Air Race Nut!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking Fiberglass |
Austin
I have a hole deburrer that I can't remember where I bought, that is a
cutting end on the end of an offset handle, and I just used that to
countersink enought to make the tinnermans lay flat on the fiberglass. I
did this both in the wheel pants and the spinner and it has been OK so far.
I think what ever you can find to make the countersink suitable will be ok.
Joe Hine
RV4 C-FYTQ
>
> Hi All,
> Dumb question #3 I guess.
> The wheel fairings are using recessed Tinnerman washers for the screws to
> hold the fairings together.
> What is the method of choice to countersink for the #6 and #8 ?
> A hand held 1/2" drill bit or something like that ?
> I haven't got a clue what would do the job without hogging out a lot of
> material, 'cause if we don't hog it out, the washer will stand
proud..won't
> it ?
> Same with the spinner, but worse consequences....
> Any opinions ?
> Thanks for your help,
> Austin.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Home from Alaska and pictures on websites |
Welcome home! Bernie.
Followed your trip on Laura's web page - what an experience! One of a
life time. Great photos!
Ed Anderson
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bernie Kerr" <kerrjb(at)msn.com>
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 12:00 PM
Subject: RV-List: Home from Alaska and pictures on websites
>
> I am at home and was faced with over 1800 emails. Thought I had
> unsubscribed before I left Fla last day of May for Lake Clark Alaska.
>
> What a trip and what an airplane!! Throw in great weather after I got
> north of Edmonton and great people!!! It is hard to imagine such a trip
> in something that arrived here 4 years ago in 4 boxes. Keep pounding
> those rivets.
>
> I arrived in Memphis after 22 days of RVing. I stayed in a motel one
> night, 2 nights in my tent (Cougar Landing), and one night on the FBO
> floor in Palmer Alaska. All the other nights were with either previous
> aquaintances or folks I met along the way. The airplane had 111 hours on
> it when I did my first conditional inspection mid may and now has 176
> hours. The Garmin trip odometer shows almost 11000 statue miles since I
> left Fla. The cowling has not been off nor has the airplane given one
> moments trouble(Thanks Van for a great design and kit). For a look at
> some pictures and a very disjointed journal, go to Tracy and Laura
> Crooks Web site : www.rotaryaviation.com and click on Bernie's
> adventure.
>
> If anyone is planning to fly to Alaska and want some of my input, feel
> free to call me at 561-466-6701
>
> Bernie Kerr
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: anyone we know? |
Gregory Young from Spring Texas
----- Original Message -----
From: <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: anyone we know?
B. Reg. No.: 6GY M/M: EXP Desc: EXP-RV-6Activity: Pleasure Phase:
Approach GA-A/C: General AviationDescr: EXPERIMENTAL ACFT CRASHED BEHIND
TREES WHILE ON FINAL APPROACH TO THE RWY, TOMBALL, TX.WX: SPECI KDWH 122009Z
20007KT 10SM FEW050 33/23 A2995Damage: SubstantialC2. Injury Data: # Crew:
1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 1 Unk: # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser:
0
Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: D.
Location. City: TOMBALL State: TX Country: USE. Event Date: 7/12/01 Time:
2004F. Invest Coverage. IIC: Reg/DO: SW09 DO City: HOUSTONDO State: TX
Others: NTSBG. Flt Handling. Dep Pt: HOUSTON, TX Dep Date: 7/12/01 Time:
1929Dest: HOUSTON, TX Last Radio Cont: SHRT FINAL 1/2 MILE Flt Plan:
NONELast Clearance: CLRD FOR OPTION WX Briefing: NOther:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com> |
All,
This disturbing listing (attached below)about an apparent crash today (as
mentioned on a few previous posts) was one of ours. Looks like he had
minimal injuries, but substantial damage to the plane as he was landing.
Gregory last posted to us on Tuesday, discussing the use of a feed scale to
weigh his plane one wheel at a time, and the difficulties it provided. He
was to have the DAR visit yesterday.
Lets be careful!
As my wife keeps telling me "spend what you need to so that thing is safe...
I don't want you spending 6 years building your own casket".
jim
Tampa
--- ABAYMAN(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> B. Reg. No.: 6GY M/M: EXP Desc: EXP-RV-6Activity: Pleasure
> Phase:
> Approach GA-A/C: General AviationDescr: EXPERIMENTAL ACFT CRASHED
> BEHIND
> TREES WHILE ON FINAL APPROACH TO THE RWY, TOMBALL, TX.WX: SPECI KDWH
> 122009Z
> 20007KT 10SM FEW050 33/23 A2995Damage: SubstantialC2. Injury Data: #
> Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 1 Unk: # Pass: 0
Fat:
> 0 Ser: 0
From N-number search...
N-number : N6GY
Aircraft Serial Number : 23070
Aircraft Manufacturer : YOUNG GREGORY
Model : RV-6
Aircraft Year :
Owner Name : YOUNG GREGORY
Owner Address : 16931 MISTY CREEK DR
SPRING, TX, 77379-6438
Registration Date : 05-Apr-2000
Airworthiness Certificate Type : Not Specified
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Dombroski <f_dombroski(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Grove Gear Deal |
Inspired by an excellent deal on Todds Canopy, I
contacted Robbie Grove to inquire about a group
discount on his Aluminum Gear and Dual Piston
Wheel/Brake Sets. The gear saves 16 to 17lb vs. the
steel gear (verified by a -8 customer) - and looks
better to boot. Please see the Grove web site for
details www.groveaircraft.com.
I will delete these items from my Vans kits, its a
couple hundred dollars difference.
Robbie offered the following at a 10% discount, based
on 3 orders.
PN 1220-1 $1099.00 RV 8 Landing Gear Retrofit
Kit
PN 56-1 539.00 500 X 5 HP Wheel & Brake Assy
PN 5013 2 x 38.60 ea $ 77.20 500 X 5 Axles
PN 5710 4 x 3.00 ea $12.00 Spacers
PN 5510 2 x 11.00 ea $22.00 Axle Nuts
TOTAL $1749.20
10% Discount -174.92
TOTAL PRICE FOR ABOVE $1574.28
Grove Aircraft Company
1860-I Joe Crosson Drive
El Cajon, CA 92020
1-888-GEARLEG (432-7534) Toll-Free
1-619-562-3274 Fax
www.groveaircraft.com
robbie(at)groveaircraft.com technical engineer
teena(at)groveaircraft.com customer service
Please let me know if there are any other takers...
Thanks
Frank Dombroski
RV-8 One wing done, the other closing in. FB Fuse...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Dombroski <f_dombroski(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Grove Gear Deal |
Inspired by an excellent deal on Todds Canopy, I
contacted Robbie Grove to inquire about a group
discount on his Aluminum Gear and Dual Piston
Wheel/Brake Sets. The gear saves 16 to 17lb vs. the
steel gear (verified by a -8 customer) - and looks
better to boot. Please see the Grove web site for
details www.groveaircraft.com.
I will delete these items from my Vans kits, its a
couple hundred dollars difference.
Robbie offered the following at a 10% discount, based
on 3 orders.
PN 1220-1 $1099.00 RV 8 Landing Gear Retrofit
Kit
PN 56-1 539.00 500 X 5 HP Wheel & Brake Assy
PN 5013 2 x 38.60 ea $ 77.20 500 X 5 Axles
PN 5710 4 x 3.00 ea $12.00 Spacers
PN 5510 2 x 11.00 ea $22.00 Axle Nuts
TOTAL $1749.20
10% Discount -174.92
TOTAL PRICE FOR ABOVE $1574.28
Grove Aircraft Company
1860-I Joe Crosson Drive
El Cajon, CA 92020
1-888-GEARLEG (432-7534) Toll-Free
1-619-562-3274 Fax
www.groveaircraft.com
robbie(at)groveaircraft.com technical engineer
teena(at)groveaircraft.com customer service
Please let me know if there are any other takers...
Thanks
Frank Dombroski
RV-8 One wing done, the other closing in. FB Fuse...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Garth Shearing" <garth(at)Islandnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 40 amps alternator |
----- Original Message -----
From: bert murillo <bertrv6(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: July 13, 2001 11:48 AM
Subject: RV-List: 40 amps alternator
A point to think about when installing alternators: The amp rating of the
alternator is the number of amps it will put out at the rated rpm of the
alternator, usually somewhere around 6000 rpm. If the alternator is
actually being run at some higher rpm, it will put out more amps. From
looking at the average RV installation, the cruising rpm of the alternator
is quite a bit higher than 6000. This will, of course, lower the long term
reliability but provide more current, if demanded by the aircraft system.
I have looked at a number of automobile manuals relating to the alternator
installations of the Nippon Denso units, and quite often it is difficult to
establish the actual operating rpm of the alternator because the manual
usually only talks about the engine rpm, which may be at cruising and then
again it may not. Maybe someone else can clarify this a little more. I
have the actual alternator specifications for my own converted and rewound
Kubota tractor dynamo type alternator which puts out 10 amps at 5600
alternator rpm. It has given me no trouble for 20 years. (Actually, I
lie - I had a belt break due to poor alignment.)
Garth Shearing
VariEze and 80% RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Are Barstad <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: anyone we know? |
His post re. W&B of last Wednesday said "DAR scheduled for 10am Wed." I assume
that was next Wednesday unless he posted this message before 10am. If this was
not his first flight, it must have been close.
This really hurts...
Are
>
> From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
> Date: 2001/07/13 Fri PM 02:50:05 EDT
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: anyone we know?
>
>
> Gregory Young from Spring Texas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 11:25 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: anyone we know?
>
>
>
> B. Reg. No.: 6GY M/M: EXP Desc: EXP-RV-6Activity: Pleasure Phase:
> Approach GA-A/C: General AviationDescr: EXPERIMENTAL ACFT CRASHED BEHIND
> TREES WHILE ON FINAL APPROACH TO THE RWY, TOMBALL, TX.WX: SPECI KDWH 122009Z
> 20007KT 10SM FEW050 33/23 A2995Damage: SubstantialC2. Injury Data: # Crew:
> 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 1 Unk: # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser:
> 0
> Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: D.
> Location. City: TOMBALL State: TX Country: USE. Event Date: 7/12/01 Time:
> 2004F. Invest Coverage. IIC: Reg/DO: SW09 DO City: HOUSTONDO State: TX
> Others: NTSBG. Flt Handling. Dep Pt: HOUSTON, TX Dep Date: 7/12/01 Time:
> 1929Dest: HOUSTON, TX Last Radio Cont: SHRT FINAL 1/2 MILE Flt Plan:
> NONELast Clearance: CLRD FOR OPTION WX Briefing: NOther:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another dumb thing |
My AeroSport engine will be 2 years old in Sept. Of course it was run in
and pickled from Bart. It has been hung for about 1 year or so. I asked
Bart at OSH last year about what I might do to continue to preserve the
engine since it is now out of its shrink wrap and most of the preservative
oil has run out. Obviously one idea is just to fill it with more
preservative oil through the breather. Bart suggested to spray the
cylinders with marine fogging oil. I found this at the local Fleet Farm.
It is used to spray in outboard motors during the off season. It's cheap
(about 4 bucks a can). I spray the cylinders every couple weeks and I also
sprayed an entire can into the breather vent. Probably could also get it at
a marine supply store.
Doug
================
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Arthur Glaser <airplane(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another dumb thing |
I got some at the local motorcycle shop.
Doug Weiler wrote:
>
> My AeroSport engine will be 2 years old in Sept. Of course it was run in
> and pickled from Bart. It has been hung for about 1 year or so. I asked
> Bart at OSH last year about what I might do to continue to preserve the
> engine since it is now out of its shrink wrap and most of the preservative
> oil has run out. Obviously one idea is just to fill it with more
> preservative oil through the breather. Bart suggested to spray the
> cylinders with marine fogging oil. I found this at the local Fleet Farm.
> It is used to spray in outboard motors during the off season. It's cheap
> (about 4 bucks a can). I spray the cylinders every couple weeks and I also
> sprayed an entire can into the breather vent. Probably could also get it at
> a marine supply store.
>
> Doug
>
> ================
> Doug Weiler
> Hudson, WI
> 715-386-1239
> dougweil(at)pressenter.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wanted: RV4 Cowl in NY (or other finishing kit stuff) |
| From: | Anthony J Castellano <tcastella(at)juno.com> |
Hi David:
Our EAA chapter which is located at DXR (Danbury, CT) has a new (unused)
RV4
cowling. We will sell it for a reasonable offer.
Regards,
Tony Castellano
tcastella(at)juno.com
Hopewell Junction, NY
RV-6 N401TC
>
>So Listers......any one coming to EAA 486 Forum KFZY, September in
>Fulton NY, or send parts up with a friend who is...
>
>Want to unload that extra RV4 cowl?..... Spinner?
>That unused canopy frame?
>Brakes..wheels any thing out of a finishing kit extra???
>
>Let me know what you got.....
>Slowing piecing the finishing kit together for the rest of the RV4 I
>got........
>
>C'mon clean out your garage now....you've fallen over that stuff long
>enough...........
>
>Thanks:
>David McManmon
>N58DM RV6 flying
>(already have canopy, motor mount and gear legs, thanks).
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Every Man A Tiger |
--- Builder's Bookstore wrote:
> I've already got a sample copy on order. If its as good as everyone
> is
> saying, then Yes; it will be available through Builder's Bookstore.
> Probably in a week or so. But I do want to see it before ordering 50
> copies.
Methinks that won't be enough...
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
====
Michael E. Thompson (Grobdriver(at)yahoo.com)
Austin, TX, USA
RV-6 in progress, N140RV (Reserved)
EX-AX1 Sub Hunter, P-3 (B/B-TACMOD/C) Orion Aircrew,
PP-G,ASEL, Motorglider Driver and Unlimited Air Race Nut!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Priming procedure |
You will hear many ways of doing this. However the
easiest way is to remember the following.
1. all sheet metal parts come alclad which will not
need to be scuffed. Use a self etching primer for
these parts.
2.all L angle bars are not alclad and will be the
purest aluminum in the kit. I would also use a self
etching primer on these parts unless you want to
overwork yourself and self etch and alodyne these
parts. It is not neccessary unless you just want to do
it this way.
3. Again you will all sorts of ways to prime your kit
but unless you keep your airplane by a salt water
environment it is not neccessary to use an epoxy
primer. If you so choose to use an epoxy primer keep
in mind it will add a little weight to your finished
product.
4. As always it is your airplane and yours alone so
choose the primer that you want, no matter what anyone
says.
5. I might add if you were to look at any cessna 152
out there they are not primed anywhere except under
the paint job itself. And you will notice corrosion
only around the fuel caps and gear leg area as well as
the belly behind the firewall.
6. My aircraft is primed only with a self etching
primer. Inside for that little extra "touch" However,
it was not needed I chose to do it this way as I felt
like it. So please just do what you think is best for
your a/c. See ya down the road.
Glenn Williams
archive this one please
--- Steve Collins wrote:
>
>
> I have my HS rear spar ready for my first attempt at
> priming. I've
> spent hours reading the the archives on priming, but
> I still have some
> questions.
>
> My planned procedure is as follows:
> 1 - Use a spray bottle to spray on Alumiprep
> (diluted with 5 parts
> water) and clean/scuff with Scotchbrite (gray pads
> for Alclad, red pads
> for everything else)
> 2 - Rinse with water hose
> 3 - Use a sponge to apply Alodine
> 4 - Rinse with water hose
> 5 - Let dry (spray with compressed air to help)
> 6 - Spray on Dexter 463-12-8 epoxy primer (aka AKZO)
>
> I have the following questions:
> 1 - I don't have the space or reasonable way to
> store any large "vats"
> to use the dipping method for the Alumiprep and
> Alodine (although I may
> be able to use some small tubs for small parts), so
> for most parts I was
> planning to use the above procedure. And I was
> planning to do it in my
> back yard. Is there any danger in hosing this stuff
> off in my back
> yard? Envrionmentally, I'm sure it's not ideal.
> But what other options
> do I have? Even if I captured all the rinse water,
> what would I do with
> it? Will it kill my grass, or cause any other
> health/environmental
> problems? On the Alodine bottle it says, "Contact
> with organic
> materials may cause fire after evaporation of
> water". What does this
> mean? I looked on Henkel's web site (company that
> produces Alumiprep
> and Alodine I have ) and didn't find any useful
> information.
> 2 - Any problems spraying the primer in hot weather
> (I'm in Houston)?
> 3 - I have exposed metal on the powder-coated hinge
> brackets after
> drilling, etc. (and have read some negative things
> in the archives about
> the powder-coating), so I was hoping to use the same
> "AKZO" primer for
> these parts. What's the procedure for prepp'ing
> them? Are there
> products equivalent to Alumiprep and Alodine that I
> need to use? Do I
> need to remove all the powder-coat that is still
> there, or just prep the
> exposed metal, scuff the powder-coat and spray
> primer over the whole
> thing?
>
> Sorry for the long-winded questions. Any help would
> be much
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> -Steve
> RV-7A, empennage
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Priming procedure |
In a message dated Fri, 13 Jul 2001 5:22:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, glenn williams
writes:
>You will hear many ways of doing this. However the
> easiest way is to remember the following.
>
> 1. all sheet metal parts come alclad which will not
> need to be scuffed. Use a self etching primer for
> these parts.>>
I believe that some scuffing is best, but certainly may not be required. The etching
types are only marginally effective at getting some teeth in the glassy
alclad surface.
> 2.all L angle bars are not alclad and will be the
> purest aluminum in the kit. I would also use a self
> etching primer on these parts unless you want to
> overwork yourself and self etch and alodyne these
> parts. It is not neccessary unless you just want to do
> it this way.>>
Actually I believe that the purest aluminum on your airplane is the alclad coating
itself. Everything else is an aluminum alloy (2XXX series is alloyed principally
with copper, 5XXX series is alloyed principally with magnesium and 6XXX
series is alloyed principally with both silicon and magnesium) and, as a result,
these alloys are more subject to common types of corrosion than is aluminum
in its more pure form.>>
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator interference w/ cowling (RV-4) |
I guess I may have not used the correct search terms but I couldn't find
anything in the archives. I'm rough fitting my lower cowling and ran into a
problem. My alternator is interfering with the fit on the left side. I
didn't think I had trimmed that much from the cowling. Anyone else have
this problem with their RV-4? I'm guessing I'm going to have to put a
blister there. Anyone else have any better ideas?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SPORT AERO <eloveday(at)ici.net> |
| Subject: | Bargain On Frey Steel fuselage jig |
Listers,
If anyone is interested, the last Frey Precision Steel fuselage jig is now
for sale for $900.00.
Now in storage at Oshkosh, this jig was constructed by Steve frey and has
been seen at
Oshkosh, Sun n' Fun and many other fly-ins throughout the Northeast.
Although built for an RV-6, it can easily be adapted for any of Van's
designs with a little careful
measuring and relocation of the bulkhead stops.
With the advent of the RV-9A & RV-7 and the attendant reduction of demand,
Sport Aero has
ceased production of all fuselage jigs, so this truly is the last one. By
the way, prior to the end
of production, these jigs sold for $1950.00.
If you're driving to Oshkosh, bring the pickup! It will fit in just about
any one - I brought it there in
my Mazda short bed.
I can be reached here by e-mail or phone till Wednesday the 18th; after
that at Oshkosh from
the 19th through the 30th.
Ed Loveday Sport Aero
RV-6 20181 canopy frame
e-mail: eloveday(at)ici.net
phone at Plymouth, Ma: (508) 747-0061
phone at Oshkosh: (920) 426-3992 (please leave a message)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michel" <michelboucher594(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator interference w/ cowling (RV-4) |
I was able on mine to shorten the adjustement bar and use a smaller belt and
this gave me enough clearance on my RV3.
Michel Boucher
RV3
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Van Artsdalen, Scott
Sent: July 13, 2001 6:45 PM
Subject: RV-List: Alternator interference w/ cowling (RV-4)
I guess I may have not used the correct search terms but I couldn't find
anything in the archives. I'm rough fitting my lower cowling and ran into a
problem. My alternator is interfering with the fit on the left side. I
didn't think I had trimmed that much from the cowling. Anyone else have
this problem with their RV-4? I'm guessing I'm going to have to put a
blister there. Anyone else have any better ideas?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "d. wayne stiles" <dwstiles(at)hotmail.com> |
I don't know if this will help with prop dings, but . . . .
For years, when I restored antique gunstocks I raised dings back to
original level by holding a wet (but not dripping) pad made of several clean
cotton cleaning patches--2 or 3 thicknesses of fabric--over the ding and
applying a hot iron. If the wood fibres in the ding are compressed and the
finish is cracked by the impact the steam generated will penetrate the wood
fibres and cause them to swell. give it plenty of time to dry out, fine
sand, (or better yet, burnish) the wood back to the original contour and
refinish.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
Dear gang,
There is a web site called www.airnav.com, that has been upgraded recently.
It has always given details about almost all existing airports, and has had
an auxiliary site that gave Avgas prices. It now has a trip planning
feature that looks very well designed and simple to use. I will be trying
it out next week. On July 20, I will fly from Philadelphia, PA to Coeur
D'alene, Idaho in my RV-4. This web site allows me to plan the route very
quickly based on my aircraft's fuel performance ( and my bladder's
performance). It gives me 10 possible routes to use to get to my
destination. I can quickly link to each selected airport and make a
decision to use it or not. I can very quickly change my input data and get
a different set of routes. I can easily print out the routes and the
specific airport data. In one hour, I have made up a folder with a 30
possible routes and have "up-to-date" info on all possible selected
airports. I can not predict how well this is really going to work out,
but I will let the RV-list know in early August. My purpose for writing to
the list now is let you know of the existence of this site. It will be
useful to those of you flying out to Oshkosh ( as I will on the return
trip), or for any planned long distance flights to parts unknown. I have
now made four round trip coast-to-coast flights in my Cessna 150 and RV-4.
The pre-planning is always difficult, imperfect, and unpredictable. This
web site promises to help reduce the workload. It is a free site but is now
asking for donations. Kinda like the Matronics list. I will be happy to
donate if the site is really helpful.
Louis
Louis I. Willig
larywil(at)home.com
RV-4, N180PF, 115 hrs. and climbing fast
I0-360, Hartzell C/S
(610) 668-4964
Penn Valley, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrjb(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: www.airnav.com |
Louis,
The site is a good one. I used it for my trip to Alaska from Florida. It put
me on to some very good stops. The site is dependent on folks feeding it up
to date info and comments on the service. The best FBO that I used on the
trip was Dyson in Athens TX. All amenities including a nice courtesy car and
fuel was $1.75!
The other really good stop was Nugget Aviation at Palmer Alaska but that,s a
small detour for your trip to Idaho:>)
Bernie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net> |
"Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com"
How close can you mount your comm antenna to your elt antenna?
Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A - N8VD
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Van's comm antenna |
Does anybody know how the $7 comm antenna that Van's sells fits in the
canopy? Will it fit -conection wise-in the slider? How's it compare to a Bob
Archer comm antenna in a wingtip? Is it visible from the outside and how
close is it to my fat head when the canopy's closed. Worried aabout all that
RF, y'know!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator interference w/ cowling (RV-4) |
Scott
It depends alot on what type of alternator and how long your belt is. I
have a nippondenso and the shortest belt I could get to work and got my
cowling on with no blister, and more importantly no hole worn in the cowl
after flight wind load is put on the front.
If you like I could take things apart when I get a chance and email you a
few photo's
Joe Hine
RV4 C-FYTQ
>
> I guess I may have not used the correct search terms but I couldn't find
> anything in the archives. I'm rough fitting my lower cowling and ran into
a
> problem. My alternator is interfering with the fit on the left side. I
> didn't think I had trimmed that much from the cowling. Anyone else have
> this problem with their RV-4? I'm guessing I'm going to have to put a
> blister there. Anyone else have any better ideas?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator interference w/ cowling (RV-4) |
In a message dated 7/13/01 6:48:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
svanarts(at)unionsafe.com writes:
> I guess I may have not used the correct search terms but I couldn't find
> anything in the archives. I'm rough fitting my lower cowling and ran into a
> problem. My alternator is interfering with the fit on the left side. I
> didn't think I had trimmed that much from the cowling. Anyone else have
> this problem with their RV-4? I'm guessing I'm going to have to put a
> blister there. Anyone else have any better ideas?
>
Try and find the shortest possible belt. If you can't get a decent gap,
you'll need the blister or a smaller alternator. A buddy of mine who has a
very nicely done RV-4 has cut a nice hole in his cowl with his alternator
fan...
While we're on cowls, has anyone else seen one of the old polyester cowls
crack badly? This same friend of mine has numerous spider cracks in the high
stress areas on his cowl. He's got about 45 hours on his airplane, and the
cowl looks 15 years old.
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com> |
We should all send a message to these guys at airnav.com to have a voluntary
listing of different homebuilt planes at the specific airports listed. I'd
list mine there (or will in a couple of months when its out of my garage!).
Then we could arrange our trips by picking airports which have fellow
RV'ers. Heck, it would be easy for them to set up a search tool that would
let us plan our trip by picking airports this way.
That would be a fun way to see the country!
jim
Tampa
building (but flying a spammer).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Louis Willig
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 9:04 PM
Subject: RV-List: www.airnav.com
Dear gang,
There is a web site called www.airnav.com, that has been upgraded recently.
It has always given details about almost all existing airports, and has had
an auxiliary site that gave Avgas prices. It now has a trip planning
feature that looks very well designed and simple to use. I will be trying
it out next week. On July 20, I will fly from Philadelphia, PA to Coeur
D'alene, Idaho in my RV-4. This web site allows me to plan the route very
quickly based on my aircraft's fuel performance ( and my bladder's
performance). It gives me 10 possible routes to use to get to my
destination. I can quickly link to each selected airport and make a
decision to use it or not. I can very quickly change my input data and get
a different set of routes. I can easily print out the routes and the
specific airport data. In one hour, I have made up a folder with a 30
possible routes and have "up-to-date" info on all possible selected
airports. I can not predict how well this is really going to work out,
but I will let the RV-list know in early August. My purpose for writing to
the list now is let you know of the existence of this site. It will be
useful to those of you flying out to Oshkosh ( as I will on the return
trip), or for any planned long distance flights to parts unknown. I have
now made four round trip coast-to-coast flights in my Cessna 150 and RV-4.
The pre-planning is always difficult, imperfect, and unpredictable. This
web site promises to help reduce the workload. It is a free site but is now
asking for donations. Kinda like the Matronics list. I will be happy to
donate if the site is really helpful.
Louis
Louis I. Willig
larywil(at)home.com
RV-4, N180PF, 115 hrs. and climbing fast
I0-360, Hartzell C/S
(610) 668-4964
Penn Valley, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator interference w/ cowling (RV-4) |
> I'm rough fitting my lower cowling and ran into a problem. My alternator
is interfering with > the fit on the left side. I didn't think I had
trimmed that much from the cowling. Anyone else > have this problem with
their RV-4? I'm guessing I'm going to have to put a blister there. >
Anyone else have any better ideas?
My alternator fit fine after I got a shorter belt. However, the bracket hung
down enough I had to put a cute little blister on the cowel. It's a great
conversation piece. 'What's this for?' "Oh, the turbocharger was a little
larger than I thought it would be and..........."
I got a really good deal on a 60 amp alternator, so it's a little bigger
than most. And I sell the excess power to Public Utilities. The pully j u s
t touches the cowel in high G turns. But, after 500+ hours, it hasn't peeked
through yet. I have an aluminum plate that protects the fiberglass.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tom sargent <sarg314(at)earthlink.net> |
Bill VonDane wrote:
> How close can you mount your comm antenna to your elt antenna?
>
> Bill VonDane
Bill:
The general rule of thumb is to not have anything conductive within at
least 1/4 wavelength from any antenna (except for the ground plane of
course). Com wavelengths are around 2.5 meters, so that works out to 2
feet. The more the better. The effect of having other conductors close
by is to distort the antenna pattern (as compared to a perfect
omnidirectional pattern) and to decrease transmitter efficiency. The
ideal is a straight 1/4 wave whip extending perpendicular to an infinite
ground plane.
In practice antenna performance has a good bit of black magic involved,
though. Sometimes an antenna works way better than you would think in
the presence of obstructions, sometimes they seem sensitive to
remarkably small changes in their neighborhood. I can sometimes see
these effects with my cell phone antenna (wavelength is around 1 foot).
Watch the signal strength as you move the thing around relative to other
conductors. If you're very close to the cell relay, you won't see any
difference, though.
--
Tom Sargent.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
1/4 wavelength separation is recommended - That would be ~7 1/2" (0.6198 ft)
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Sent: July 13, 2001 10:10 PM
Subject: RV-List: antennas
How close can you mount your comm antenna to your elt antenna?
Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A - N8VD
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Winters" <dtw_rv6(at)yahoo.com> |
Does anyone know if the IO360-B1E will fit in the "standard" setup on an
RV-6? This is the 180hp engine with fuel injection located on the rear
of the case. They aren't a common engine, but I may have access to a
midlife engine in this configuration. It has the straight valves, so
it's not likely to need the modified cheek cowling.....
Any additional info would be welcome.
Don Winters
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Tank Baffle Clearance Over Spar |
Hi all,
Hope to close my first tank today by installing the rear baffle. In
checking the clearance at the countersunk rivets on the rear of the
baffle, where they fit on top and below the main spar at about the
inboard foot. It looks like the driven portion of the rivets will set
very close if not touch the spar. Has anyone had a problem with this?
That's about clear as mud. Also plan to "modify" my pop riveter (thanks
Are) before starting.
Thanks,
Jack
RV8, tanks
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
I'm using the Robbins heat muffs on a 6A. When everything is tight, the
muffs still can rotate on the pipe with medium hand torque applied. Is
there some magic to these, or should I find a way to anchor them better?
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
I just received this message from Greg Young--he's alive and kicking. I'm
sure we'll all hear his story soon.
Greg Tanner
-----Original Message-----
From: Gregory Young [mailto:gyoung@cs-sol.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 7:47 AM
Subject: RE: RV
Thanks Greg,
I've got 2 broken ribs, a wrenched knee, a bunch of cuts and gouges, am
awfully sore and not moving too well. But overall, just glad to be alive.
When you see pictures of the cockpit you'll understand just how lucky I was
to walk away. My local friends have taken care of everything but it's nice
to know there's an extended group of friends out there. I haven't gotten to
the list messages yet but will post something to the list soon. Thanks for
the concern.
Regards,
Greg
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Tanner [mailto:gtanner(at)bendcable.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 5:36 PM
> To: gyoung@cs-sol.com
> Subject: RV
>
>
> Greg,
> We've never met except maybe on the RV list. I heard about
> your accident.
> I'm terribly sorry about your plane and I hope you aren't hurt. I'm in
> Oregon but if I was closer, I'd come see if I could be of any
> help. I'm sure
> everybody on the list is worried for you. With what you just
> experienced,
> you may be awhile before you get around to your email but let
> us know how
> you are as soon as you can.
>
> Greg Tanner
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net> |
"Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com"
Does it matter if you have them positioned side by side or front to back?
I was thinking I wanted them to be on the centerline, so if I put the ELT
antenna as far forward as I can, how far back would the Comm antenna need to
be?
I am getting the Comant CI 122 Comm antenna:
http://www.comant.com/ci122.html
Thanks...
Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A - N8VD
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill VonDane [mailto:n8vd(at)earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 8:10 PM
Subject: antennas
How close can you mount your comm antenna to your elt antenna?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Robertson <gordon(at)safemail.com> |
| Subject: | Aluminum gear legs for -8 |
A few months ago there was a series of posts about machined al. legs
which had an airfoil cross-section. I thought I had saved the web site
but now cannot find it. Does anyone recall the details? I think they
looked better than the flat Grove legs.
Also, what will Vans credit back for the steel legs? Since I am on the
fuse, I already have my legs.
Gordon Robertson
RV-8 fuse.
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Grove Gear Deal
Inspired by an excellent deal on Todds Canopy, I
contacted Robbie Grove to inquire about a group
discount on his Aluminum Gear and Dual Piston
Wheel/Brake Sets. The gear saves 16 to 17lb vs. the
steel gear (verified by a -8 customer) - and looks
better to boot. Please see the Grove web site for
details www.groveaircraft.com.
I will delete these items from my Vans kits, its a
couple hundred dollars difference.
Robbie offered the following at a 10% discount, based
on 3 orders.
PN 1220-1 $1099.00 RV 8 Landing Gear Retrofit
Kit
PN 56-1 539.00 500 X 5 HP Wheel & Brake Assy
PN 5013 2 x 38.60 ea $ 77.20 500 X 5 Axles
PN 5710 4 x 3.00 ea $12.00 Spacers
PN 5510 2 x 11.00 ea $22.00 Axle Nuts
TOTAL $1749.20
10% Discount -174.92
TOTAL PRICE FOR ABOVE $1574.28
Grove Aircraft Company
1860-I Joe Crosson Drive
El Cajon, CA 92020
1-888-GEARLEG (432-7534) Toll-Free
1-619-562-3274 Fax
www.groveaircraft.com
robbie(at)groveaircraft.com technical engineer
teena(at)groveaircraft.com customer service
Please let me know if there are any other takers...
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: [rv8list] RE: antennas |
Sorry...
I meant to say the Comm and the Xpndr, not the ELT... and I was planning on
putting them on the bottom of the fuse...
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill VonDane [mailto:n8vd(at)earthlink.net]
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:40 AM
Subject: [rv8list] RE: antennas
Does it matter if you have them positioned side by side or front to back?
I was thinking I wanted them to be on the centerline, so if I put the ELT
antenna as far forward as I can, how far back would the Comm antenna need to
be?
I am getting the Comant CI 122 Comm antenna:
http://www.comant.com/ci122.html
Thanks...
Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A - N8VD
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill VonDane [mailto:n8vd(at)earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 8:10 PM
Subject: antennas
How close can you mount your comm antenna to your elt antenna?
Information exchange for builders of Vans Aircraft RV-8 kits.
IF YOU WISH TO UNSUBSCRIBE, PLEASE SEND AN EMAIL TO :
rv8list-unsubscribe(at)egroups.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kelli lewis" <klewissprint01(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | navigation chart subscription |
Some of you may be subscribers to AOPA's navigational chart
subscription. It used to be handled in-house. It was recently shifted to
Sporty's. NOT that there is anything wrong with that.
HOWEVER: Builder's Bookstore also has a subscription service for charts.
The charts are cheaper and shipping is free. And it is supporting one of
"us". Something to consider...........
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
No connection with the Bookstore other than general builder
bonding.............
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net> |
"Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com"
| Subject: | forward baggage door |
Ok all you RV-8 guys and gals...
My forward baggage door top skin did not come pre-punched, and as I
understand it, it was supposed to.....so now what? I haven't called Van
yet, but I don't think he will scrap an entire top skin just to send me the
door top skin, so I am looking for ideas on how to drill this and still have
it fit and look good...
Thanks...
Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A - N8VD
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | forward baggage door |
Bill-
Fear not- I think you might be looking at the wrong part. The panel that
comes as part of the top skin is a throway piece- the baggage door outer
skin is a separate piece of sheet that's probably hiding somewhere, maybe in
your seat pieces. I think they do it that way because the separate piece is
thinner sheet than the rest of the top skin.
Matthew
8A fuse
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 1:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: forward baggage door
Ok all you RV-8 guys and gals...
My forward baggage door top skin did not come pre-punched, and as I
understand it, it was supposed to.....so now what? I haven't called Van
yet, but I don't think he will scrap an entire top skin just to send me the
door top skin, so I am looking for ideas on how to drill this and still have
it fit and look good...
Thanks...
Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A - N8VD
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Tank Baffle Clearance Over Spar |
Hi friends,
Just finished the baffle and have the tank clecoed to the wing, sure
looks cool and a lot bigger! The clearance was close but no problem.
Just to be sure I put plastic wrap over the spar and set the tank on it.
If it is close the proseal should conform around the spar and rivets.
Jack
RV8, one tank done
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net> |
"Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com"
| Subject: | forward baggage door |
Hi Matt...
Yep, your right... I was looking at the part that was actually removed from
the top skin, and I verified that I did in fact get an F-873APP baggage door
top skin, but I'll be damned if I can find it... What the hell could I have
possibly mistaken THAT for? What does it look like? It is simply a flat
piece of al with holes punched in it?
F-873APP FWD.BAGGAGE DOOR $18.32
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Gelber
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 3:16 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: forward baggage door
Bill-
Fear not- I think you might be looking at the wrong part. The panel that
comes as part of the top skin is a throway piece- the baggage door outer
skin is a separate piece of sheet that's probably hiding somewhere, maybe in
your seat pieces. I think they do it that way because the separate piece is
thinner sheet than the rest of the top skin.
Matthew
8A fuse
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 1:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: forward baggage door
Ok all you RV-8 guys and gals...
My forward baggage door top skin did not come pre-punched, and as I
understand it, it was supposed to.....so now what? I haven't called Van
yet, but I don't think he will scrap an entire top skin just to send me the
door top skin, so I am looking for ideas on how to drill this and still have
it fit and look good...
Thanks...
Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A - N8VD
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com> |
Fellow Listers:
Probably another dumb question: I am wiring the mags on my RV-4. I am
using simple toggle switches (like in a Citabria). They are mounted
inverted such that when they are "OFF" continuity flows through the switch
to ground. When they are "ON" the switch is open and the mags are hot. I
have checked this very simple circuit with my meter and it is OK. When I
now hook up the mag wire to the Slick mag and position the positive meter
lead on the mag terminal post and the other on the aircraft ground, the
meter shows continuity to ground fine (as it should be). But when I switch
the right mag (in this case) ON, there is no change on the meter reading
(still shows continuity). Now I am really confused!!!
Any explanations? BTW, I assume the phenolic washer on the Slick mag
terminal post goes on first, then the wire terminal, then the lock waster
and then the nut.
Thanks again,
Doug
================
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Chart Subscription |
I just received four sectionals from Sporty's @ $8.00 each PLUS over $8 for
shipping and handling....handling consisted of wrapping them in a piece of
non-descript paper and slapping less than $1.50 in US Postage on the bundle.
Next time I'll try the Bookstore also!
John Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
this just in from a friend of mine and continentail airline captain.
regaurding the rv at hooks field.
Carlvaleri: The from the firewall forward looks like it broke downward as if
he nosed in. The wings are no longer attached. And there are lots of other
little pieces. Carlvaleri: It still looked ok accept for the cannopy. What
injuries does he have again? Carlvaleri: Looks like he is going to have to
start over on the plane. It is not in very good shape. Carlvaleri: That
would make sense. He is lucky the cockpit wasn't in worse shape. He might
not have made it. Carlvaleri: I might venture out that way tommorow. I'll
bring my camera. Do you know anyone at the airport?
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ciminojim" <ciminojim(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: IO360-B1E |
I can't speak for the -6, but I have an IO360-B1E in my -8. I changed the
sump to move the injection to the front, I thought it would be easier for
the air flow.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Winters" <dtw_rv6(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 8:15 AM
Subject: RV-List: Fw: IO360-B1E
>
>
> Does anyone know if the IO360-B1E will fit in the "standard" setup on an
> RV-6? This is the 180hp engine with fuel injection located on the rear
> of the case. They aren't a common engine, but I may have access to a
> midlife engine in this configuration. It has the straight valves, so
> it's not likely to need the modified cheek cowling.....
>
> Any additional info would be welcome.
>
> Don Winters
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mag continuity |
Sounds like you are reading thru the points
and coil.. As long as they ground the mag
in the 'off' position you are ok..
Stewart RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
"RV List \(E-mail\)"
| Subject: | First and Last Flight report |
Contrary to local Houston news reports today, I have NOT slipped into
critical condition but am home and doing well, all things considered.
Physically I'm probably better than I have any right to be. I've got 2
broken ribs, a wrenched knee, a bunch of cuts and gouges, am awfully sore
and not moving too well. But overall, I'm just damn glad to be alive. When
you see pictures of the cockpit you'll understand just how lucky I was to
walk away. I only have a couple pictures from my camera before the batteries
ran out but I'll post them (HoustonRVBuilders group on Yahoo) and others
when I get them from friends.
The other news reports on the crash were surprisingly accurate. Around
3:30pm on Thursday I departed on the maiden flight of my new RV-6 from DWH.
I headed west toward Hempstead and Brenham for handling and systems checks.
For 30 minutes I had a glorious flight and was the happiest man in the air.
Returning to Hooks, when I turned on the boost pump the engine went rough.
After trying various combinations of boost on/off and leaning I thought the
engine was running smooth and planned for a high speed approach. On a close
base I went to add power but the engine was dead and just windmilling (C/S
so I had no rpm indication of a problem). I went through a quick restart
drill and assessed my options. There was nothing but trees between me and
the runway and I wasn't going to make the runway. The other way was a
trailer park, a thin row of trees and a pasture beyond that. My decent rate
ruled out the pasture so I went for the trailer park. I hoped to put it down
on the street and roll/slide between two trailers and into the trees beyond.
It almost worked as planned. Based on what memory I have and track marks I
found, I hit in the street but was headed for one of the trailers. I jammed
full left rudder (broke the stop and punctured the rudder with the elevator)
to change direction. That worked but then I hit a 6" dia. tree in front of
the trailer. It hit dead center in the right fuel tank, bent the spar
backward and tried to rip the fuselage from the wing. The wing turned almost
90 deg to the original track but the fuselage was only about 60 deg. When
everything stopped, I found myself twisted sideways in what was left of my
seat with both feet stuck through the right side of the fuselage. The right
tank burst from the tree impact and the left tank was punctured by the
fuselage/wing interaction. Fuel was everywhere - I was completely soaked and
there was a pool of gasoline on the floor (or whatever structure was there)
in front of me. My belt was jammed so tight in my gut I had trouble
releasing the latch. I also had some trouble extracting my feet from the
jagged opening. One of the residents helped pull me out and into her home to
await the Paramedics. I crawled out under the left canopy rail (fuselage
side was ripped wide open) and slid down the wing.
Random thoughts: The whole affair from decision point to extraction was less
than 1 minute. I called "Mayday,Mayday,Mayday" as I turned toward the
trailer park and I remember chuckling when the tower said "Try to make it to
the runway". Yeah, right! I hope he felt stupid after he said it. There was
no fire (thank God) but I don't know why not. The fuel spill killed the
grass in a 50 foot area. No one was injured on the ground and precious
little physical damage was done. This was helped by it being a weekday
afternoon with no cars at home and few kids playing. I traveled 100-125 feet
from touchdown/impact to stop. It wasn't slow and it wasn't pretty. I was
worried about maintaining speed during the turn and avoiding a stall/spin.
The descent rate was enormous with a windmilling CS prop. The arrival was
more like a splat-skid. In hindsight it probably helped dissipate energy. No
one picked up my ELT signal - if it triggered it had no antenna, it was
installed on the seat back bulkhead and the cable was severed. Seemingly
every piece of metal (except the VS) was bent. I had always wondered whether
the fuselage would buckle ahead of the shoulder strap attach points - it did
not and the shoulder straps did their job. I had a crotch strap and the lap
belt stayed low to do it's job (Pacific Aero harnesses). I added protection
to the glareshield (split reinforced fuel hose with foam pipe insulation
over that). I can't tell if I hit it or not... but then that's the whole
point. The canopy, that we all worry so much about cracking during
installation, remained latched and undamaged... go figure! They picked up
the wreckage this morning headed to Air Salvage of Dallas. I do not plan to
buy the salvage. Go for it - there's a Navaid, EIS4000, SL15, GX65, SL30
w/CDI G/S & SL70.
Second guessing: I've had 2 days to reflect and can come up with a million
woulda/coulda/shoulda's, particularly knowing the outcome of one branch of
the decision tree. While I was in the hospital, my RV buddies were beating
themselves up on what should have done/said. Hindsight is wonderful!
While there may have been "better" choices, I'm comfortable (and I'm the one
that has to live with them) that I made "reasonable" choices given the
circumstances at the time. Once I wound up in that coffin corner on base, I
think I made the "best" choices coupled with a lot of luck. I never once
thought of saving the aircraft. I traded my RV's life for mine - it was a
good trade. But I'll miss her - for 30 minutes it was the best time of my
life.
Regards,
Greg Young
RV-6 N6GY Houston (DWH) first flight/destroyed 7/12/2001
________________________________________________________________________________
This is a good example of misinformed sources. They saw the wreck on a
trailer at Hooks after they had recovered it. They cut the spar, separated
the wings from the fuselage and shoved the nose and tail section of the
fuselage together to make room on the trailer for another aircraft they were
recovering. It pisses me off when someone talks about something like an
authoritative source when they don't know s$$t. Trust me - I DO know.
Greg
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 6:49 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: rv at hooks
>
>
> this just in from a friend of mine and continentail airline captain.
> regaurding the rv at hooks field.
>
>
> Carlvaleri: The from the firewall forward looks like it
> broke downward as if
> he nosed in. The wings are no longer attached. And there
> are lots of other
> little pieces. Carlvaleri: It still looked ok accept for
> the cannopy. What
> injuries does he have again? Carlvaleri: Looks like he is
> going to have to
> start over on the plane. It is not in very good shape.
> Carlvaleri: That
> would make sense. He is lucky the cockpit wasn't in worse
> shape. He might
> not have made it. Carlvaleri: I might venture out that way
> tommorow. I'll
> bring my camera. Do you know anyone at the airport?
>
> scott
> tampa
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-8 Cooling ramp |
| From: | "Ed O'Connor" <edwardoconnor(at)compuserve.com> |
Seems like this is geting harder. I am about to begin installing the
forward belly skins and was studying drawings and found something I don't
understand. Or should I say another thing I don't understand. For you RV-8
builders, drawing 36 - R2 (dated 6/98) on the exploded view, view AA and
View FF all show 2 AN 257-P3 hinges attached to the 802KPP. The 11 1/2"
hinge attaches to 802Kpp for the 867 cooling ramp. The other hinge 7" long
also attaches to 802PP but will be covered by the 851PP. WHAT IS THE
PURPOSE OF THE 7" hinge?? Vidio tapes do not address this hinge nor does
Van's directions. Drawing 36A dated Feb/98 for RV-8A does not show this 7"
hinge. Any help from those whoe have been here already?
Ed O'Conor/Sandy Creek Airpark/Panama City FL
RV-8/N366RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ENewton57(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First and Last Flight report |
<>
Greg,
Thanks for sharing the story with us. Thank God you are alright and I want to
say that I am awe struck at how well you did under such incredible pressure.
You stayed in control and flew the plane - excellent job.
Greg, the only positive that can ever come out of this type of incident is that
maybe someone else can learn from your unfortunate accident and maybe prevent
it from happening to them. With that in mind, do you think you will ever be
able to determine what happened to cause the engine failure? If so, please share
it with the group. I hope to do my first flight some time in October or November.
Anything you can share would be appreciated.
God speed and get well soon,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
RV-6A N57ME (moving to airport this weekend)
www.ericsrv6a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Hodge <skyjack31(at)yahoo.com> |
I think it should be Ok unless it slides around too
much. by the way, does anyone have the web site/ or
addrss of Robbins heat muffs. Jack/RocketII
--- Alex Peterson wrote:
>
>
> I'm using the Robbins heat muffs on a 6A. When
> everything is tight, the
> muffs still can rotate on the pipe with medium hand
> torque applied. Is
> there some magic to these, or should I find a way to
> anchor them better?
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> 6A
>
>
> ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet
> - From $8.99/mo! ------
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Hodge <skyjack31(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First and Last Flight report |
What a chilling account. I'm glad you're OK
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Greg:
I didn't mean to piss you off. Everyone on the list was worried about you and
your plane. it just so happens a friend of mine was at Hooks today (the
continental captain) and was familiar about your accident, as I had asked him
if he heard anything on the Houston news. he was shocked to see the airplane
we were just talking about yesterday on a flat bed at the airport. I asked
him of the condition of the aircraft since we had not had a report from
anyone local. you had not yet posted your status of your health and of your
plane. He just described what condition the plane was in, on the flatbed.
I for one, can't imagine what an experience like this is like. I'm very glad
to hear you came out of it in fair shape considering. i know it must be
disappointing to put all those labor hours into your pride and joy for years,
to lose it on the first flight, it must be a terrible feeling. but i agree,
you did the right thing by sacrificing the plane for your life. have you had
time to make a decision on building again?
i am a low time pilot and would never make the first flight of my plane. i
don't know you other than reading your post on the list, but i feel a
commoderary between the rest of the listers, and feel for everyone's
disappointments, and accomplishments.
Again I say, if I pissed you off, it was unintentional, and i'm sorry, and
i'm glad your still with us to fly again someday.
Scott
Tampa
rv6a finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | First and Last Flight report |
Thread-Topic: RV-List: First and Last Flight report
Thread-Index: AcEMy8Nb5lG4oO2TSZaVyWBv4fcjoQADNM3Q
| From: | "Todd Wenzel" <TWenzel(at)hsdinc.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Gregory Young [mailto:gyoung@cs-sol.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 7:31 PM
Subject: RV-List: First and Last Flight report
Contrary to local Houston news reports today...
Greg, I just want to take a moment to thank you for your courage to talk
to all of us about your accident. I, and I'm sure every other RV'er,
feels your sorrow and disappointment over this terrible situation. The
main point is you made it out alive and you did the absolutely best
ANYONE could have done under the same situation. I know it is extremely
difficult, but PLEASE don't second guess yourself or think about "what
if...". YOU DID THE RIGHT THING! I know all the RV'ers on the list would
gladly forfeit some of the time in their projects if it could bring your
beautiful plane back to life. Unfortunately, they (I) can't, and we all
feel awful about ANY incident involving an RV. Thank God, and your
piloting skills, that you survived and no one else was injured. I'm sure
it is far to premature to think about starting the building process over
again. It is probably best that your take some time to heal, physically
and emotionally, before you make that decision. But, do yourself and all
us RV'ers a favor: Get back in the air with ANY plane so you can prevent
this situation from removing you from the sky's forever.
God bless you and your family!
Todd Wenzel
RV-8AQB - Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hurlbut" <shurlbut(at)island.net> |
| Subject: | RV-7 Prepunched? |
I just picked up my emp, wings and fuse for the RV-7.
In reference to the pre-punching I don't notice any difference from the
pre-punched RV-6.
I thought the ribs were match punched?
There are no holes in the ribs.
Wazz up?
Is this normal?
Steve Hurlbut
Comox, BC
shurlbut(at)island.net
RV-7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Reiff" <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First and Last Flight report |
Glad you made it out, that's the main thing. Would be interesting to find
out why it quit...seems a little strange that a salvage guy hauled it away
only 48 hrs after the accident. No FAA investigation, or a really quick
one??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R Colman" <ronincolman(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Tip Tanks & Check Valves |
We have installed the Van's tip tanks on our RV-8. We find that fuel will
seep from the mains to the tips past the "one way" check valves. In poking
around a bit on the www we find that there are all manner of check valves.
Some are spring loaded and claim to be positively zero leaking. Others use a
floating ball valve. Andair makes two, one of which is drilled to ALLOW
"bleed back"
It looks to me that check valves are used for a wide verity of purposes and
they are not designed or made equal. Yet in the common aviation catalogs
we've looked at no distinction is made.
Any info on the zero leakage check valve of choice for use with tip tanks?
Thanks
Ronin Colman
RV-8 N591RC 6+ hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RV-7 Prepunched? |
The RV-9 tail is the one that is completely pre-punched, ribs and all... I
believe the RV-7 tail is essentially an RV-8 tail, and I don't think they
have gone as far as to pre-punch the ribs in that tail yet...
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Hurlbut
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 9:05 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-7 Prepunched?
I just picked up my emp, wings and fuse for the RV-7.
In reference to the pre-punching I don't notice any difference from the
pre-punched RV-6.
I thought the ribs were match punched?
There are no holes in the ribs.
Wazz up?
Is this normal?
Steve Hurlbut
Comox, BC
shurlbut(at)island.net
RV-7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net> |
"Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com"
| Subject: | RE: [rv8list] Oil Filter Cooler |
Hi All...
I just posted the pix of Danny's Cool Collar modifications...
http://vondane.tripod.com/dannyking/
BTW.....I still haven't found my darn baggage door...
Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A - N8VD
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
-----Original Message-----
From: Danny King [mailto:wdking(at)flash.net]
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 11:25 AM
Subject: [rv8list] Oil Filter Cooler
Guy's,
I purchased two a J C Whitney "Cool Collar" for 17.95 each. I have
dreams of 180 degree Texas summer oil temps! This morning I made this
shroud for it to direct air around it in the most efficient way
possible. Before I weld it together, I though you guys would likes
pictures of the assembly. I cut the second collar to add a piece to
the first so the fins would completely circle the oil filter. The
shroud is made of left over .32. The tube is one inch tubing purchased
from Lowes. I will use one inch air duct hose to the baffle. Make one
with a friend, the tube is eight feet long and I used three inches.
There is enough of the second Cool Collar to cut pieces for two more oil
filter coolers.
Danny King
Beautiful Doll 80434
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | First and Last Flight report |
Greg,
First, were all glad you survived. You did a great job getting the airplane on
the ground and saving yourself. I can only imagine the mental anguish of losing
your airplane on the first flight. Thanks for sharing your story.
Second, and again, you did a great job. I know it's easy to beat yourself up on
what you could have done better. When I had my hawk strike, I must have gone
over it a thousand times "what could I have done better?" I even went back to
the airport and listened to the tapes to see if I could learn something. The
only advise I could give you is to believe in yourself that you did everything
right (and you did) and you that your still living amongst us proves it.
I hope you get well soon, both physically and emotionally. Were all thinking of
you.
Laird
RV-6
SoCal
Greg wrote:
snip>
Second guessing: I've had 2 days to reflect and can come up with a million
woulda/coulda/shoulda's, particularly knowing the outcome of one branch of
the decision tree. While I was in the hospital, my RV buddies were beating
themselves up on what should have done/said. Hindsight is wonderful!
While there may have been "better" choices, I'm comfortable (and I'm the one
that has to live with them) that I made "reasonable" choices given the
circumstances at the time.
snip
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | First and Last Flight report |
Several folks have asked about the cause of my engine stoppage. At this
point I don't know but will keep you informed if and when I find out. This
is what's happened so far. The FAA and NTSB did an on-scene investigation
and then released the aircraft to me. The FAA said they would look at it
further when it was removed. The insurance company did not want the plane
moved until their adjuster saw it but since it was obviously totaled, they
sent their preferred salvage company to retrieve it. They said the FAA would
assign someone from Dallas to look at it and that they would investigate it
as well (I presume to lay-off the damages).
I suspect that a non-fatal, one-of-a-kind accident is not going to get a lot
of time if the cause isn't obvious. Hopefully I'm wrong but fatalities and
exposure/volume seem to drive expenditures. With the plane in Dallas, and
once they write me a check, there's not much I can do. So there's a
possibility we may never know the cause. I'll keep you advised.
Regards,
Greg Young
RV-6 N6GY Houston (DWH) first flight/destroyed 7/12/2001
>
> Glad you made it out, that's the main thing. Would be
> interesting to find
> out why it quit...seems a little strange that a salvage guy
> hauled it away
> only 48 hrs after the accident. No FAA investigation, or a
> really quick
> one??
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Arthur and Christine" <act(at)voyager.co.nz> |
| Subject: | RE: RV8-List: RV-8 Cooling ramp |
The 7" hinge acts as a guide for the hinge pin through the cooling ramp.
This pin is inserted through a hole in the side of the 851pp.
Cheers
Arthur Whitehead
RV-8 installing baffles and gear leg fairings.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ed O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, 15 July 2001 13:33
Subject: RV8-List: RV-8 Cooling ramp
--> RV8-List message posted by: "Ed O'Connor"
Seems like this is geting harder. I am about to begin installing the
forward belly skins and was studying drawings and found something I don't
understand. Or should I say another thing I don't understand. For you RV-8
builders, drawing 36 - R2 (dated 6/98) on the exploded view, view AA and
View FF all show 2 AN 257-P3 hinges attached to the 802KPP. The 11 1/2"
hinge attaches to 802Kpp for the 867 cooling ramp. The other hinge 7" long
also attaches to 802PP but will be covered by the 851PP. WHAT IS THE
PURPOSE OF THE 7" hinge?? Vidio tapes do not address this hinge nor does
Van's directions. Drawing 36A dated Feb/98 for RV-8A does not show this 7"
hinge. Any help from those whoe have been here already?
Ed O'Conor/Sandy Creek Airpark/Panama City FL
RV-8/N366RV
________________________________________________________________________________
<>
Greg- we're glad you made it, and it sounds like pilot skill and good
judgment are why. We've been talking and worrying about you for a couple of
days, and I'm sure we're ALL glad to hear from you. Get well and go fly, man!
Ed Winne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Henley" <rv6plt(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-7 Prepunched? |
I received my wings 6 weeks ago ant the ribs are prepunched (along with
everything else).
John Henley, wings together and finishing tanks
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Hurlbut <shurlbut(at)island.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 8:04 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-7 Prepunched?
>
> I just picked up my emp, wings and fuse for the RV-7.
> In reference to the pre-punching I don't notice any difference from the
> pre-punched RV-6.
> I thought the ribs were match punched?
> There are no holes in the ribs.
> Wazz up?
> Is this normal?
>
> Steve Hurlbut
> Comox, BC
> shurlbut(at)island.net
> RV-7A
>
>
NetZero Platinum
No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access
Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
http://www.netzero.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Bell" <dbell(at)manisteenational.com> |
Guys,
I am trying to help a builder of a searay who asked me yesterday about
getting his n-number....I know I have seen a link which explains the whole
process on someones website, but my limited morning search hasn't turned
anything up. Anyone have the link they could forward to me.
Thanks
Doug Bell, PGA
rv-8
(too busy at the golf course to build much this summer)
See you all at the Thursday Oshkosh meeting
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-7 Prepunched? |
According to the RV forum at Arlington yesterday, some new kits are still
going out with non-prepunched empennage ribs until that stock is used up. Bob
Adams.
John Henley wrote:
>
> I received my wings 6 weeks ago ant the ribs are prepunched (along with
> everything else).
> John Henley, wings together and finishing tanks
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Hurlbut <shurlbut(at)island.net>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 8:04 PM
> Subject: RV-List: RV-7 Prepunched?
>
> >
> > I just picked up my emp, wings and fuse for the RV-7.
> > In reference to the pre-punching I don't notice any difference from the
> > pre-punched RV-6.
> > I thought the ribs were match punched?
> > There are no holes in the ribs.
> > Wazz up?
> > Is this normal?
> >
> > Steve Hurlbut
> > Comox, BC
> > shurlbut(at)island.net
> > RV-7A
> >
> >
>
> NetZero Platinum
> No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access
> Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
> http://www.netzero.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)apex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-7 Prepunched? |
John Henley wrote:
>
> I received my wings 6 weeks ago ant the ribs are prepunched (along with
> everything else).
> John Henley, wings together and finishing tanks
Great! But your Empannage ribs was not prepunched were they?
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
Starting RV7A empannage :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net> |
http://vondane.com/rv8a/nnumber.htm
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Doug Bell
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 7:21 AM
Subject: RV-List: N-number
Guys,
I am trying to help a builder of a searay who asked me yesterday about
getting his n-number....I know I have seen a link which explains the whole
process on someones website, but my limited morning search hasn't turned
anything up. Anyone have the link they could forward to me.
Thanks
Doug Bell, PGA
rv-8
(too busy at the golf course to build much this summer)
See you all at the Thursday Oshkosh meeting
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Cooling ramp |
I did away with the hinge, used the fluting plyers to carefully radius
the top ends of the stiffners and put a piece of angle in.
Now the cooling ramp transitions into the belly with a niece smooth
radius.
of course, your mileage may vary, oh yeah, I'm building an 8A
Gert
Ed O'Connor wrote:
>
>
> Seems like this is geting harder. I am about to begin installing the
> forward belly skins and was studying drawings and found something I don't
> understand. Or should I say another thing I don't understand. For you RV-8
> builders, drawing 36 - R2 (dated 6/98) on the exploded view, view AA and
> View FF all show 2 AN 257-P3 hinges attached to the 802KPP. The 11 1/2"
> hinge attaches to 802Kpp for the 867 cooling ramp. The other hinge 7" long
> also attaches to 802PP but will be covered by the 851PP. WHAT IS THE
> PURPOSE OF THE 7" hinge?? Vidio tapes do not address this hinge nor does
> Van's directions. Drawing 36A dated Feb/98 for RV-8A does not show this 7"
> hinge. Any help from those whoe have been here already?
> Ed O'Conor/Sandy Creek Airpark/Panama City FL
> RV-8/N366RV
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip Tanks & Check Valves |
Ronin
The floating ball valves I worked with, needed to be mounted in such way
that gravety would help them fall on the seat as at (extreme) low flow
rates the ball would not push hard enough to make a proper seal.
I.e. most floating ball valves not only need a return flow but also a
(maintained) return pressure to properly seal. in lieu of a pressure, a
spring can be added to fullfill this function. The spring however needs
a minimum unseat pressure (or sucktion) before it will release and open.
quite a few times where we had a condition like you describe, remounting
the ball valve under a angle or vertical would aliviate the problem.
Of course, paramount here is the condition/construction of the
ballvalve.
Gert
R Colman wrote:
>
>
> We have installed the Van's tip tanks on our RV-8. We find that fuel will
> seep from the mains to the tips past the "one way" check valves. In poking
> around a bit on the www we find that there are all manner of check valves.
> Some are spring loaded and claim to be positively zero leaking. Others use a
> floating ball valve. Andair makes two, one of which is drilled to ALLOW
> "bleed back"
>
> It looks to me that check valves are used for a wide verity of purposes and
> they are not designed or made equal. Yet in the common aviation catalogs
> we've looked at no distinction is made.
>
> Any info on the zero leakage check valve of choice for use with tip tanks?
>
> Thanks
>
> Ronin Colman
> RV-8 N591RC 6+ hours
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Cooling ramp |
I did away with the hinge too... I simply used a piece of angle in place of
the hinge...
http://vondane.com/rv8a/fusepj/fuse84.jpg
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of gert
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Cooling ramp
I did away with the hinge, used the fluting plyers to carefully radius
the top ends of the stiffners and put a piece of angle in.
Now the cooling ramp transitions into the belly with a niece smooth
radius.
of course, your mileage may vary, oh yeah, I'm building an 8A
Gert
Ed O'Connor wrote:
>
>
> Seems like this is geting harder. I am about to begin installing the
> forward belly skins and was studying drawings and found something I don't
> understand. Or should I say another thing I don't understand. For you
RV-8
> builders, drawing 36 - R2 (dated 6/98) on the exploded view, view AA and
> View FF all show 2 AN 257-P3 hinges attached to the 802KPP. The 11 1/2"
> hinge attaches to 802Kpp for the 867 cooling ramp. The other hinge 7"
long
> also attaches to 802PP but will be covered by the 851PP. WHAT IS THE
> PURPOSE OF THE 7" hinge?? Vidio tapes do not address this hinge nor does
> Van's directions. Drawing 36A dated Feb/98 for RV-8A does not show this
7"
> hinge. Any help from those whoe have been here already?
> Ed O'Conor/Sandy Creek Airpark/Panama City FL
> RV-8/N366RV
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
Bill,
I noticed that I had misinformed you yesterday (that beer does it to me
every time! - maybe I'm allergic? :) ). I gave you an answer in inches while
the same number should have been in centimeters.
You are looking at ~2ft separation between the two antennas. To be exact,
it's actually 61.7cm for an antenna matched for 121.5. The distance will be
shorter for the comm antenna so the separation should be determined from the
longest (ELT). This separation might be hard in the RV-8 but would give you
best results.
If you can achieve this separation, it doesn't matter a lot if they are side
to side or front to back.
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Sent: July 14, 2001 12:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: RE: antennas
Does it matter if you have them positioned side by side or front to back?
I was thinking I wanted them to be on the centerline, so if I put the ELT
antenna as far forward as I can, how far back would the Comm antenna need to
be?
I am getting the Comant CI 122 Comm antenna:
http://www.comant.com/ci122.html
Thanks...
Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A - N8VD
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill VonDane [mailto:n8vd(at)earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 8:10 PM
Subject: antennas
How close can you mount your comm antenna to your elt antenna?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
Bill,
I noticed that I had misinformed you yesterday (that beer does it to me
every time! - maybe I'm allergic? :) ). I gave you an answer in inches while
the same number should have been in centimeters.
You are looking at ~2ft separation between the two antennas. To be exact,
it's actually 61.7cm for an antenna matched for 121.5. The distance will be
shorter for the comm antenna so the separation should be determined from the
longest (ELT). This separation might be hard in the RV-8 but would give you
best results.
If you can achieve this separation, it doesn't matter a lot if they are side
to side or front to back.
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Sent: July 14, 2001 12:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: RE: antennas
Does it matter if you have them positioned side by side or front to back?
I was thinking I wanted them to be on the centerline, so if I put the ELT
antenna as far forward as I can, how far back would the Comm antenna need to
be?
I am getting the Comant CI 122 Comm antenna:
http://www.comant.com/ci122.html
Thanks...
Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A - N8VD
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill VonDane [mailto:n8vd(at)earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 8:10 PM
Subject: antennas
How close can you mount your comm antenna to your elt antenna?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
The RV6A man from Texas did talk to Van's people about his elongated nose
gear attachment hole, and he said that essentially he was told he was 'on
his own' - that's his view of their response....I have no idea what they
actually told him...welding seems (from the informed responses on the list)
to be a baaaad idea. But I suspect that the tapered pin idea would work if
the hole was not too enlarged. If it is, then I would look into welding a
curved piece of steel on the top and the bottom of the receptor tube on the
engine mount as "gussets" so to speak....that would avoid weakening of the
gear leg, yet provide a solid bolt hole location. At the next opportunity I
am going to pull my cowl and inspect my nose gear mount also....
As to shimmy, I have had to adjust my break out force only once, after
perhaps 30 hours or so, and its been fine since...over 6 years and over 925
landings and touch-and-goes..come to think of it, I did readjust it once
more, after I installed Van's stronger Rv6A nose gear leg...but that was two
years ago and I haven't had a problem since then.
I hope any further info/experience on this matter is posted. thanks
John Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
Excuse my ignorance here--but what is this break out force you guys are
talking about?
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Nose Gear
The RV6A man from Texas did talk to Van's people about his elongated nose
gear attachment hole, and he said that essentially he was told he was 'on
his own' - that's his view of their response....I have no idea what they
actually told him...welding seems (from the informed responses on the list)
to be a baaaad idea. But I suspect that the tapered pin idea would work if
the hole was not too enlarged. If it is, then I would look into welding a
curved piece of steel on the top and the bottom of the receptor tube on the
engine mount as "gussets" so to speak....that would avoid weakening of the
gear leg, yet provide a solid bolt hole location. At the next opportunity I
am going to pull my cowl and inspect my nose gear mount also....
As to shimmy, I have had to adjust my break out force only once, after
perhaps 30 hours or so, and its been fine since...over 6 years and over 925
landings and touch-and-goes..come to think of it, I did readjust it once
more, after I installed Van's stronger Rv6A nose gear leg...but that was two
years ago and I haven't had a problem since then.
I hope any further info/experience on this matter is posted. thanks
John Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | RV8 Fire Extinguisher Placement |
I saw some really nice RV8's at Arlington yesterday but several with
their fire extinguishers in bad positions. It seems that no one wants to
mount the bulky thing in the front office, the ones I'm talking about
have it mounted between the passengers feet. I don't see how a pilot
flying solo could get at the fire extinguisher if it is mounted there.
This list has already lost a friend with this type of set-up. It appears
that he had a fire, undid his seat belt, opened his canopy, and
attempted to get his fire extinguisher. That is pure speculation but he
was not in the aircraft when it impacted the earth.
So RV8/RV4 and Rocket guys and gals, ya need to figure out a better
plan. You shouldn't be passing your final inspections if you can't reach
the fire extinguisher, after all, it is required flight equipment. I
think RV8's should have two mounting brackets/positions for the fire
extinguisher. Could it be mounted in the left footwell during solo
flights then moved to the other position for dual flights? Would the
pilot be able to get at it if it was at the spot of the passengers left
foot? If you can't reach your fire extinguisher when you are buckled in
then you need to do some thing different. Consider separate positions
for solo and dual.
The other option is to get one or two of the super small 1.4 lbs Halon
extinguishers. These are so small and light that you will have more
options available for mounting positions. They will fit up front some
where. These are available at all the local auto speed shops. Remember,
with Halon if you fill the cockpit with this gas you will need to vent
immediately for your next breath of air.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
Congratulations to Randall Henderson (RV-6) for a championship award at Arlington
and to Randy Lervold (RV-8) for a workmanship award.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
I'm fitting the wing tips to an RV8A ..(thinking of paint)..noticed that
the plans call for 1-1/2 spacing of the screws/rivets holding the tip
on....I have seen a LOT of RV's out on the ramp with spacing at least
4" apart..Is there any fast and set rule as to spacing here?..thanks..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
The break out force is the amount of force measured in pounds that must be
applied at right angles to the axle of the nose wheel while the wheel is
supported off the ground before it begins to move. Essentially you can think
of it as "how tight" to make the big nut on the bottom of the nose gear leg.
Van's instructions call for 22lbs of force to get the wheel moving and that
seems about right from what I have experienced on the RV6A....what he calls
for on the other nose gear planes I don't know...
John Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
Ok--so this is the force required to make the nose wheel swivel---does this
relate directly to the problems being discussed about the nose gear mounting
hole being worn or are there other factors that could cause this?
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Nose Gear
The break out force is the amount of force measured in pounds that must be
applied at right angles to the axle of the nose wheel while the wheel is
supported off the ground before it begins to move. Essentially you can think
of it as "how tight" to make the big nut on the bottom of the nose gear leg.
Van's instructions call for 22lbs of force to get the wheel moving and that
seems about right from what I have experienced on the RV6A....what he calls
for on the other nose gear planes I don't know...
John Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Fastening Wingtips With Screws |
> I'm fitting the wing tips to an RV8A ..(thinking of paint)..noticed that
> the plans call for 1-1/2 spacing of the screws/rivets holding the tip
> on....I have seen a LOT of RV's out on the ramp with spacing at least
> 4" apart..Is there any fast and set rule as to spacing here?..thanks..
My 5 year old RV6A plans call for CS4-4 pop rivets spaced 2 1/2 inches.
Somehow I found out that one was allowed to make the wingtips removable by
using screws instead. I choose and installed #8 screws and nutplates when I
later learned I could have saved weight by using the smaller #6 hardware.
Some builders attained even further weight reduction by spacing further
apart.
I have then much later seen a good discussion here about the stripping and
breakage problems RV builders were having with the small #6 screws. The
consensus then was to take the extremely small weight penalty and go with
the problem free #8 hardware. I have since used the beefy #8's and many
#10's for all my screwing around.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Fire Extinguisher Placement |
--- Norman wrote:
>
> I saw some really nice RV8's at Arlington yesterday but several with
> their fire extinguishers in bad positions. It seems that no one wants
> to
> mount the bulky thing in the front office, the ones I'm talking about
> have it mounted between the passengers feet.
There is an alternative:
http://www.safecraft.com/Model%20AS.htm
Sold by:
http://www.ioportracing.com/welcomeframes.htm
I've seen at least one other in a -8, and my -6 sports one.
Fuel Off, Switches Off, Pull Pin, Pull Handle.
That and a small hand held for cabin electrical fires...
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)ticnet.com> |
Charts are available at with no S&H charge.
Sectionals are priced at $7.25 each...service is excellent...I just give
my credit card number. Or you can call tollfree 877-314-7575.
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip Tanks & Check Valves |
Both the valves for the tip tanks, recommended in the supplied
instructions and the Andair units recommended by Van's have the
"bleed-back" feature.
How much gas are you talking about "seeping" back into the wing tip
tanks? My tanks arrived last week and I'll be retro-fitting them.
Boyd.
R Colman wrote:
>
>
> We have installed the Van's tip tanks on our RV-8. We find that fuel will
> seep from the mains to the tips past the "one way" check valves. In poking
> around a bit on the www we find that there are all manner of check valves.
> Some are spring loaded and claim to be positively zero leaking. Others use a
> floating ball valve. Andair makes two, one of which is drilled to ALLOW
> "bleed back"
>
> It looks to me that check valves are used for a wide verity of purposes and
> they are not designed or made equal. Yet in the common aviation catalogs
> we've looked at no distinction is made.
>
> Any info on the zero leakage check valve of choice for use with tip tanks?
>
> Thanks
>
> Ronin Colman
> RV-8 N591RC 6+ hours
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R Colman" <ronincolman(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV8-List: distance? |
Most RV's don't have tip tanks, so the tip weight is less of an issue. We
put ours @ 1.5
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of old ogre
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 10:57 AM
Subject: RV8-List: distance?
--> RV8-List message posted by: old ogre
I'm fitting the wing tips to an RV8A ..(thinking of paint)..noticed that
the plans call for 1-1/2 spacing of the screws/rivets holding the tip
on....I have seen a LOT of RV's out on the ramp with spacing at least
4" apart..Is there any fast and set rule as to spacing here?..thanks..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
On a related note, since I have yet to replace my original nose gear wioth
the stronger design, I want to ask clarification for this "match-drilling"
I've heard discussed. Just what is it on the gear leg that has this
requirement? IIRC, the original leg was drilled at the factory, the nose
gear was drilled at the factory (undersize?) and things pretty well fit right
out of the box.
Can't Van's drill whatever hole is needed "close enough" at the factory
without my original leg to look at?
Thanks. I've been putting off this ugly task for too long.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A O-320/Sensenich FP
Hop-Along Air Field, 12VA
Clifton Forge, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Fire Extinguisher Placement |
> I saw some really nice RV8's at Arlington yesterday but several with
> their fire extinguishers in bad positions. It seems that no one wants to
> mount the bulky thing in the front office,
> So RV8/RV4 and Rocket guys and gals, ya need to figure out a better
> plan.....
Having gotten in and out of Suzie Q (RV-4) many times, I realized my method
of getting in and out did not involve use of the right "shelf" in front of
the spar, under my right thigh. I step on the area behind the left spar in
front of the rear seat and slide in over that right shelf. Turned out to be
the perfect place for an extinguisher. It is a small Halon, mounted
backwards so it would push into the holder if things were slowing down too
fast, yet easily accessable.
Don't know if there is room there in a -8 but I imagine there would be. Come
to OSH and I'll show it to you.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Fire Extinguisher Placement |
> There is an alternative:
>
> http://www.safecraft.com/Model%20AS.htm
>
> Sold by:
>
> http://www.ioportracing.com/welcomeframes.htm
>
> I've seen at least one other in a -8, and my -6 sports one.
>
> Fuel Off, Switches Off, Pull Pin, Pull Handle.
> That and a small hand held for cabin electrical fires...
I have done some research on these awhile back. They are designed for race
cars. The difference in out application is the environment. Most race cars
are stored in good garages or attachments on a house. Aircraft are kept
outdoors or in hangers, most unheated. The main failures of this system are
the pull cable. It is similar to a carb heat/cabin heat type cable but it
never gets exercised. Guys that kept their cars outdoors or in humid areas
were having cable failures/seizures. I talked to the owner of Safecraft and
he cautioned against getting the cheapest remote system from a race shop. He
said the cable would be sub standard for aviation use. If you want to go
this route then buck up for Safecraft's light aircraft system, it is not the
cheapest. When installing, take care to know the orientation of the tank you
have. If you want to mount it horizontal then the tank has to be made with a
pick-up tube for that position. The vertical mount tank will be different.
I have had a 5 lb tank built for horizontal mounting. On my 6A I have it and
another same size (cabin use) mounted on a plate down the center of the
floor. The remote tank is strapped down and plumbed to the engine
compartment. The top still has a hand held trigger arrangement. To activate,
I reach down and squeeze a little or alot. Whatever I let go travels down a
nice steel braided hose, through the firewall, then it ends because I
haven't built anything firewall forward. I plan on T'ing it around to
smother the whole compartment. For in the cabin, the extinguisher next to it
has an aviation bracket mount. I grab it and hand hold release. Both are
Halon.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Hartzell storage procedure? |
How does one store a Hartzell constant-speed propellor ? I got mine and the
documentation mentions a storage procedure but doesn't say what it is. It
just says that the box doesn't provide adequate support. So what do I do?
Matthew
-8A fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Scotchbrite wheel too big for grinder? |
First post from a newbie!
I just got a grinder to spin the 6x1 Scotchbrite wheel that I got from
Avery. It's a Delta model that came with 3/4 inch wheels. The 1" wheel
will go on the arbor, but I can only get a few threads of the nut on there.
The side cover doesn't fit back over the wheel either.
Anyway, I've heard about wheels exploding and so on... I'd rather have
everything on there correctly. Has anyone else had this problem?
Seems like I could
1) Get a longer arbor and shim out the side cover
2) Replace the plate that goes in front of the tightening nut with a washer
3) Take it back and find one which takes the 1" wheel properly (seems all
the ~$50 grinders are set up for 3/4 inch wheels, though)
4) Give up on mounting it in a grinder and get a drill press instead
Any advice?
Brian Woodruff
RV-9A Empennage
Hillsboro, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John & Teresa Huft" <widgeon92L(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Aluminum gear legs for -8 |
I have pictures of the streamlined Al gear legs on my website at
http://skywagon.homestead.com/rv8.html
They are $400 extra. Grove will make either one.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gordon Robertson
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:49 AM
Subject: RV-List: Aluminum gear legs for -8
A few months ago there was a series of posts about machined al. legs
which had an airfoil cross-section. I thought I had saved the web site
but now cannot find it. Does anyone recall the details? I think they
looked better than the flat Grove legs.
Also, what will Vans credit back for the steel legs? Since I am on the
fuse, I already have my legs.
Gordon Robertson
RV-8 fuse.
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Grove Gear Deal
Inspired by an excellent deal on Todds Canopy, I
contacted Robbie Grove to inquire about a group
discount on his Aluminum Gear and Dual Piston
Wheel/Brake Sets. The gear saves 16 to 17lb vs. the
steel gear (verified by a -8 customer) - and looks
better to boot. Please see the Grove web site for
details www.groveaircraft.com.
I will delete these items from my Vans kits, its a
couple hundred dollars difference.
Robbie offered the following at a 10% discount, based
on 3 orders.
PN 1220-1 $1099.00 RV 8 Landing Gear Retrofit
Kit
PN 56-1 539.00 500 X 5 HP Wheel & Brake Assy
PN 5013 2 x 38.60 ea $ 77.20 500 X 5 Axles
PN 5710 4 x 3.00 ea $12.00 Spacers
PN 5510 2 x 11.00 ea $22.00 Axle Nuts
TOTAL $1749.20
10% Discount -174.92
TOTAL PRICE FOR ABOVE $1574.28
Grove Aircraft Company
1860-I Joe Crosson Drive
El Cajon, CA 92020
1-888-GEARLEG (432-7534) Toll-Free
1-619-562-3274 Fax
www.groveaircraft.com
robbie(at)groveaircraft.com technical engineer
teena(at)groveaircraft.com customer service
Please let me know if there are any other takers...
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John & Teresa Huft" <widgeon92L(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Chart Subscription |
Another source for charts is vrotate.com
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 4:49 PM
Subject: RV-List: Chart Subscription
I just received four sectionals from Sporty's @ $8.00 each PLUS over $8 for
shipping and handling....handling consisted of wrapping them in a piece of
non-descript paper and slapping less than $1.50 in US Postage on the bundle.
Next time I'll try the Bookstore also!
John Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Roy's primer questions |
The valspar line IS good marine quality paints. That's where they got
their start.
Just remember that the manufacture develops each component to work with
their system. It's always a good idea to use all their components
(wash, etch, conversion coating, primer) to get the desired results.
Jim D. 7A
(one of the "Paint Guys")
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nancy and Walter Shipley" <wshipley(at)esper.com> |
| Subject: | Cowl/altenator belt questions |
I need an altenator belt for my -8A. My engine is an IO-360 180 hp and my
altenator is a Nippon Denso - looks like I need about a 35" belt. What have
others used with this engine/altenator combo? And did you get your belt at
an auto parts store or ???
Also, been reading up on installing the FAB 360 airbox, and in the
instructions it talks about cutting off the intake scoop from the lower
cowl. Could this be right?
Thanks,
Walt Shipley RV8A N314TS (R)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net> |
Bob,
Here's what I've seen over the years as far as "unfinished" or cleared
aircraft. back before T-38's the Air Force flew T-33's. Most of these
were straight AlCad and were constantly being polished. Later in their
life the "Powers that be" figured this took up too much time for the
Corrosion Control boys so they opted to paint them Air Force gray. So
if you want totally AlCad, get yourself a case of "NEVR-DULL" wadding
polish and go for it.
Before Stainless Steel became so popular on semi trailers, we did paint
a lot of them with DuPont Imron Clear 500. Although, not aircraft
quality Alcad, the trailers came out pretty nice. When I tell folks to
make sure your work is clean, this is the true application of the word.
Every smudge, fingerprint and alumiprep stain has to be completely
removed. If not, it's magnified by the clear.
The biggest pain of the clear coat is to get the Alumiprep to etch
(stain) evenly. DuPont does make an epoxy based clear for painting
hardware and such but, we've never tried it on a large scaled surface.
Been a long time since anyone asked to clear coat AlCad.
Jim D. RV-7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Extinguisher Required? |
> Is a fire extinguisher required equipment for
> inspection? Yes, I will use one, but won't have one
> in time for my inspection.
No. Not required, just nice to have around. Lots of avgas hanging about.
Blowing a fire out just doesn't cut it.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com> |
| Subject: | Scotchbrite wheel too big for grinder? |
I have found that the Scotchbrite wheel is my most used tool by far. I use
it every day on almost every part. Even on fiberglass. I'm almost finished,
but I've been through about 7 of these wheels... worth every penny.
My personal opinion is that you are making too big a deal about the grinder.
Take off the protective thing on one side of the grinder, and mount the
whole thing so that side of the arbor is sticking out off of the edge of
your bench. Now you can get at the wheel from multiple sides, and
especially (!) from the side which allows you to get long STRAIGHT edges out
of your round wheel.
I wear protective glasses, but thats it... I've kept the protective cover on
the other side which still has the very hard stone grinder on it (which gets
used very rarely).
jim
Tampa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Woodruff
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 8:21 PM
Subject: RV-List: Scotchbrite wheel too big for grinder?
First post from a newbie!
I just got a grinder to spin the 6x1 Scotchbrite wheel that I got from
Avery. It's a Delta model that came with 3/4 inch wheels. The 1" wheel
will go on the arbor, but I can only get a few threads of the nut on there.
The side cover doesn't fit back over the wheel either.
Anyway, I've heard about wheels exploding and so on... I'd rather have
everything on there correctly. Has anyone else had this problem?
Seems like I could
1) Get a longer arbor and shim out the side cover
2) Replace the plate that goes in front of the tightening nut with a washer
3) Take it back and find one which takes the 1" wheel properly (seems all
the ~$50 grinders are set up for 3/4 inch wheels, though)
4) Give up on mounting it in a grinder and get a drill press instead
Any advice?
Brian Woodruff
RV-9A Empennage
Hillsboro, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com> |
Bill,
I had this "ugly" task done during the building process... Sent the old one
to them, and they send me a new one... it took about 2.5 weeks total time.
The only thing that they do is drill the hole in the top... the same hole
which is being talked about on another thread on this list... the one that
has elongated on one or two occasions (not a common problem).
Before I sent my old third leg to them (please, no dirty jokes here!) I
called and asked the same question... "what is so special...can't you just
drill a hole in a gear and send it to me?". However, they said "no"... "It
has to be match-drilled".
I personally can NOT see the big deal... Apparently the holes in these
things were NOT drilled in a jig originally, so a new hole may not line up.
I wanted to take my chances with the new one lining up, but Van's would not
play along.
Hope this helps.
jim
Tampa
6A.. fwf.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Nose Gear
On a related note, since I have yet to replace my original nose gear wioth
the stronger design, I want to ask clarification for this "match-drilling"
I've heard discussed. Just what is it on the gear leg that has this
requirement? IIRC, the original leg was drilled at the factory, the nose
gear was drilled at the factory (undersize?) and things pretty well fit
right
out of the box.
Can't Van's drill whatever hole is needed "close enough" at the factory
without my original leg to look at?
Thanks. I've been putting off this ugly task for too long.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A O-320/Sensenich FP
Hop-Along Air Field, 12VA
Clifton Forge, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Clear AL finish |
I talked to a guy at Arlington yesterday that had a real nice polished 170,
he said they tried the clearcoat that airstream uses on trailers this year
and were not very impressed with it because it looked dull compared to just
polishing and waxing. They had been using a polish called Flitz
(www.flitzit.com) and had good results. I bought some and started on my
spinner with it, seems to work OK.
Kevin -9A
Apex, WA
Thinking a polished HR II would look good...
In a message dated 7/15/01 6:15:11 PM, perfeng(at)3rivers.net writes:
>
>Bob,
>Here's what I've seen over the years as far as "unfinished" or cleared
>
>aircraft. back before T-38's the Air Force flew T-33's. Most of these
>
>were straight AlCad and were constantly being polished. Later in their
>
>life the "Powers that be" figured this took up too much time for the
>Corrosion Control boys so they opted to paint them Air Force gray. So
>
>if you want totally AlCad, get yourself a case of "NEVR-DULL" wadding
>polish and go for it.
>
>Before Stainless Steel became so popular on semi trailers, we did paint
>
>a lot of them with DuPont Imron Clear 500. Although, not aircraft
>quality Alcad, the trailers came out pretty nice. When I tell folks to
>
>make sure your work is clean, this is the true application of the word.
>
>Every smudge, fingerprint and alumiprep stain has to be completely
>removed. If not, it's magnified by the clear.
>
>The biggest pain of the clear coat is to get the Alumiprep to etch
>(stain) evenly. DuPont does make an epoxy based clear for painting
>hardware and such but, we've never tried it on a large scaled surface.
>
>Been a long time since anyone asked to clear coat AlCad.
>
>Jim D. RV-7A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com> |
I could be wrong but if I recall correctly, Van's REQUIRES your nosegear so
the match drill is correct for YOUR engine mount.
I suspect without it you run the risk of having a small twist in the
nosegear.
I sent mine back (before mounting on plane) and they did a decent
turnaround. Unless you have a precision drilling machine shop (or a friend
with one) you might want to just send it in and ask for an expedited return.
I also seem to recall that they give prioroty to flying planes.
James
*not* flying yet, so your mileage may vary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Nose Gear
On a related note, since I have yet to replace my original nose gear wioth
the stronger design, I want to ask clarification for this "match-drilling"
I've heard discussed. Just what is it on the gear leg that has this
requirement? IIRC, the original leg was drilled at the factory, the nose
gear was drilled at the factory (undersize?) and things pretty well fit
right
out of the box.
Can't Van's drill whatever hole is needed "close enough" at the factory
without my original leg to look at?
Thanks. I've been putting off this ugly task for too long.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A O-320/Sensenich FP
Hop-Along Air Field, 12VA
Clifton Forge, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
We had a guy bring in a new nose gear leg to the machine shop along with his
old one. He had a rough landing and bent the original. I mounted the
original in the mill and leveled it and some to measurements (linear and
angular) then placed the new leg in the mill and repeated the measurements
and drilled it. I never heard back from him if it worked or not. This was
for a 6A.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Norman, MD
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 6:47 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Nose Gear
Bill,
I had this "ugly" task done during the building process... Sent the old one
to them, and they send me a new one... it took about 2.5 weeks total time.
The only thing that they do is drill the hole in the top... the same hole
which is being talked about on another thread on this list... the one that
has elongated on one or two occasions (not a common problem).
Before I sent my old third leg to them (please, no dirty jokes here!) I
called and asked the same question... "what is so special...can't you just
drill a hole in a gear and send it to me?". However, they said "no"... "It
has to be match-drilled".
I personally can NOT see the big deal... Apparently the holes in these
things were NOT drilled in a jig originally, so a new hole may not line up.
I wanted to take my chances with the new one lining up, but Van's would not
play along.
Hope this helps.
jim
Tampa
6A.. fwf.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Nose Gear
On a related note, since I have yet to replace my original nose gear wioth
the stronger design, I want to ask clarification for this "match-drilling"
I've heard discussed. Just what is it on the gear leg that has this
requirement? IIRC, the original leg was drilled at the factory, the nose
gear was drilled at the factory (undersize?) and things pretty well fit
right
out of the box.
Can't Van's drill whatever hole is needed "close enough" at the factory
without my original leg to look at?
Thanks. I've been putting off this ugly task for too long.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A O-320/Sensenich FP
Hop-Along Air Field, 12VA
Clifton Forge, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: First and Last Flight report |
>
>Contrary to local Houston news reports today, I have NOT slipped into
>critical condition but am home and doing well, all things considered.
>Physically I'm probably better than I have any right to be. I've got 2
>broken ribs, a wrenched knee, a bunch of cuts and gouges, am awfully sore
>and not moving too well. But overall, I'm just damn glad to be alive. When
>you see pictures of the cockpit you'll understand just how lucky I was to
>walk away. I only have a couple pictures from my camera before the batteries
>ran out but I'll post them (HoustonRVBuilders group on Yahoo) and others
>when I get them from friends.
>
><-- a whole bunch of interesting reading was snipped out -->
>Regards,
>Greg Young
>RV-6 N6GY Houston (DWH) first flight/destroyed 7/12/2001
>
I've been on the road for three days, so I'm coming into this late.
First, I need to congratulate Greg on doing an excellent job to make
the best out of a bad situation. It is easy to second guess
yourself, now that you have the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, but the
decisions you made at the time seem reasonable, given the information
you had to work with.
Second, I want to offer my deepest sympathy at the loss of your
aircraft. I can't imagine how it must feel to spend years and then
lose it on the first flight :(
Third, I'm very glad that you shared your story with us. Maybe some
other listers can learn a few things that will help keep them alive,
and their planes unbent.
I offer the following comments not as criticism of you, but as things
for other listers to ponder.
1. You mentioned the high rate of descent due to the windmilling CS
prop. This is one of the big drawbacks of the CS prop, as it
automatically goes to full fine pitch trying to keep that engine
turning at the selected rpm. I've never tried this myself, as I'm
not flying a CS piston aircraft right now, but other listers have
reported that you can get a lot less drag by pulling the prop control
all the way back if the engine has failed. This would be a good
thing to have in the engine failure/emergency shutdown checklist, as
it may improve the glide performance, and make the flare a lot easier.
The other thing worth thinking about is where to set the fine pitch
stop on the CS prop. The info that came with my prop governor
suggested setting the fine pitch stop on the prop so that you get
about 50 - 100 rpm less than max rpm during a full power static runup
- the rpm will come up to max during the T/O roll. If you can get
max rpm during a static runup, your prop is probably set finer than
it needs to be, and you'll have a lot more drag once the engine fails
and the prop goes to the fine pitch stop. This could also cause an
increase in stall speed at idle power (or windmilling), as the prop
might block some of the air over the inboard wing.
2. What to do if you have engine anomalies? Most of my flight
training was in the military. We did 200 hours of training on
single-engine jets. The engines were fairly reliable, but there was
only one of them, so we were taught to be very suspicious of any
engine anomaly. We were taught to immediately start to climb if
there was any suspicion about the engine, and to stay above the
engine-out profile the whole way back to the runway. That way, once
we had climbed above the engine-out profile, we knew we could glide
back if the engine gave up the ghost. Our aim point in an engine-out
situation was one-third of the way down the runway, and we used the
longest runway, so we had some margin in the event we misjudged
things. We practiced a simulated engine out event to touchdown on
every second or third flight.
Apparently, engine failures are fairly common during the early
flights of homebuilts, so I'm planing for that event. I'll stay nice
and high during my returns to the field, and use an overhead pattern
so I can land from an engine failure anywhere in the pattern.
Greg - good luck in your recovery. And best of luck with the
insurance. Please post the insurance company outcome, and the name
of the company once you get to the end of that road. I'm sure other
listers will want to know which companies to go with, and which to
avoid. Knowing this big audience is out there might help them decide
to treat you fairly.
Take care,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Fire Extinguisher Placement |
Let me relate a small story for you, and you can draw your own conclusions.
I was at the track, and several of us were commenting on how ungodly fast
this new 993 twin turbo that had just hit the scene was. So, we were
standing on the pit wall, in between our sessions on track, watching this
guy lapping in that fire breathing Porsche monster. Well, coming out of
turn nine we saw smoke, and then small flames coming out from under the rear
bonnet (rear engined car). The driver obviously saw it too, as he began
slowing and a massive cloud of obviously halon started pouring out from the
back of the car (he had triggered his halon system). Unfortunately he
didn't JUMP on the brakes..he more coasted to a stop. It took a bit for the
car to slow to a stop, with the halon system dumping like mad the whole
time. Well, the halon ran out before the car came to a stop and he got out
to watch his $250,000 race car burn to the ground. His 40 (yes FORTY)
pounds of halon had not put out the fire).
Why? Well, because Halon is a gas...and the wind blowing through the engine
compartment blew it away before it could do it's job...which is basically
rob the fire of oxygen. Lesson learned? Have the car STOPPED before you
fire the system, unless your only goal is to keep the fire off of YOU, and
you have a nozzle pointed at your person (hold your breath, and
beware...it's cold..ask me how I know)
Ok, I said I would let you draw your own conclusion...but since everyone
knows I'm an opinionated jarhead I'll give you mine anyway. 5 pounds of
halon blown into an engine compartment with any kind of combustible and
moving air isn't going to do a whole lot. If you are in flight.....or even
have the prop spinning.....you might as well get out and blow on it.
Just my humble opinion.....unsolicitated as usual. :-)
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 Fire Extinguisher Placement
>
> > There is an alternative:
> >
> > http://www.safecraft.com/Model%20AS.htm
> >
> > Sold by:
> >
> > http://www.ioportracing.com/welcomeframes.htm
> >
> > I've seen at least one other in a -8, and my -6 sports one.
> >
> > Fuel Off, Switches Off, Pull Pin, Pull Handle.
> > That and a small hand held for cabin electrical fires...
>
> I have done some research on these awhile back. They are designed for race
> cars. The difference in out application is the environment. Most race cars
> are stored in good garages or attachments on a house. Aircraft are kept
> outdoors or in hangers, most unheated. The main failures of this system
are
> the pull cable. It is similar to a carb heat/cabin heat type cable but it
> never gets exercised. Guys that kept their cars outdoors or in humid areas
> were having cable failures/seizures. I talked to the owner of Safecraft
and
> he cautioned against getting the cheapest remote system from a race shop.
He
> said the cable would be sub standard for aviation use. If you want to go
> this route then buck up for Safecraft's light aircraft system, it is not
the
> cheapest. When installing, take care to know the orientation of the tank
you
> have. If you want to mount it horizontal then the tank has to be made with
a
> pick-up tube for that position. The vertical mount tank will be different.
>
> I have had a 5 lb tank built for horizontal mounting. On my 6A I have it
and
> another same size (cabin use) mounted on a plate down the center of the
> floor. The remote tank is strapped down and plumbed to the engine
> compartment. The top still has a hand held trigger arrangement. To
activate,
> I reach down and squeeze a little or alot. Whatever I let go travels down
a
> nice steel braided hose, through the firewall, then it ends because I
> haven't built anything firewall forward. I plan on T'ing it around to
> smother the whole compartment. For in the cabin, the extinguisher next to
it
> has an aviation bracket mount. I grab it and hand hold release. Both are
> Halon.
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | C/S prop end engine failures |
Kevin,
I know it's bad practice to change the subject line but feel it is
appropriate in this case.
I am in completely unfamiliar territory here Kevin but are you able to
change the prop pitch when the engine is not running? I seem to remember I
had this discussion with a person that rebuilds Lycoming engines about this.
For some reason I seem to remember that you *might* be able to change it
*one direction only* if the prop is wind milling fast enough but not in the
event of a seized engine. I can't remember if he said from fine to coarse or
opposite but for some reason think you can only do it one way if loosing the
engine.
Is this right? Will you be able to change pitch if the prop is wind milling?
Are
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
Sent: July 15, 2001 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: First and Last Flight report
The other thing worth thinking about is where to set the fine pitch
stop on the CS prop. The info that came with my prop governor
suggested setting the fine pitch stop on the prop so that you get
about 50 - 100 rpm less than max rpm during a full power static runup
- the rpm will come up to max during the T/O roll. If you can get
max rpm during a static runup, your prop is probably set finer than
it needs to be, and you'll have a lot more drag once the engine fails
and the prop goes to the fine pitch stop. This could also cause an
increase in stall speed at idle power (or windmilling), as the prop
might block some of the air over the inboard wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ENewton57(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pacific Aero Harness |
In a message dated 7/15/01 9:45:45 PM Central Daylight Time, Emrath(at)home.com
writes:
<< oes anyone have an installation picture of the 5th point mounting for the
Pacific Aero Harness on a RV-6? >>
Check out Randall Henderson's site:
http://www.edt.com/homewing/rhproject/
Eric Newton - Long Beach, Mississippi
RV-6A N57ME (Moving to Airport tommorrow)
http://www.ericsrv6a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Please allow me to add my condolences to Greg Young for the loss of his
aircraft during a most unfortunate first flight. I have experienced four
unexpected engine stoppages in the course of flying a couple of hundred
hours with two-stroke Rotax engines, and regardless of the engine or
plane you are flying when the silence begins roaring, it is an
overwhelming feeling of total disbelief when you realize that you are
about to be forced to "land" your carefully built plane very soon.
What I am about to present is not intended for any reason other than to
serve as food for thought to builders who have not yet made the initial
flights in their RVs. Greg is experiencing all the Monday morning
quarterbacking he needs, and no doubt his toughest critic is himself. I
can't tell you how many times I reflew one of my Rotax failures the
night following the event, and each time I tried to figure out how I
might have reacted differently. Until you have seen the prop STOP (the
Rotax prop comes to a complete stop due to the geared engine) you just
can't comprehend the emotional damage rendered to your flying psyche.
The feeling of being let down by a machine that received thousands of
hours of your best effort is crushing even if the damage to aircraft and
pilot is slight.
Having experienced total power loss in a plane, I carefully planned the
first flights in my RV-6 with the expectation of a power failure. Yes,
even though I had great confidence in the integrity of the plane and
powerplant, the mindset used to approach the flight was "something will
go wrong and I need to be prepared for it".
This admittedly pessimistic and cautious attitude dictated that at least
the first three short flights would be conducted within gliding distance
of a runway. It also meant that the airport for these flights was
selected with great care. DCU is surrounded on three sides by broad
cotton fields, has low approaches on both ends of a 5000' paved runway,
and has a 4400' perpendicular grass strip. DCU lies beneath the outer
ring of Huntsville's class C airspace at 592' elevation, with HSV's
airspace beginning at 2000'.
Not only was the airport selected with care, I even went so far as to
dictate that the first flight would be conducted when runway 18 was in
use; this allowed a power failure at low altitude on takeoff to end in a
landing on the grass strip by only having to turn slightly more than 90
degrees. Since I "assumed" there would be some sort of mechanical
problem on the first couple of flights, the flight plan called for an
immediate call to HSV for clearance to orbit DCU at 4000'. If a problem
developed, it was just a matter of spiraling down to the 5000' welcome
mat and sorting everything out at the hangar. 4000' was selected because
it is 1000' above the VOR-A approach into HSV which passes over the VOR
at DCU at midfield. The call to HSV approach meant they were looking out
for me (I told them it was a test flight) and could keep the airspace
clear for me.
And so it went. I spent sixty uneventful minutes within 1/2 mile of the
DCU runway at 4000' while temps were watched and I played with the
imminent stall characteristics. I guess this is not a very macho way to
conduct flight tests, but it was the best I could do to prevent myself
from flying into a box from which I couldn't extricate myself.
I realize there may be circumstances that would prevent the "circling"
first flights for some pilots. My concern is that the general
reliability of the RV aircraft when built by a careful individual may
lull some pilots into a false sense of security.
The RV (as is all aircraft) is a cold-blooded machine that will not
hesitate to kill you if circumstances allow!
Our responsibility is to carefully plan away as many undesireables as
possible. The first flights are very serious business.
The RV grins will come later, and there will be many of them! :-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 285 hrs)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
======================
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
> I've been on the road for three days, so I'm coming into this late.
>
> First, I need to congratulate Greg on doing an excellent job to make
> the best out of a bad situation. It is easy to second guess
> yourself, now that you have the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, but the
> decisions you made at the time seem reasonable, given the information
> you had to work with.
>
> Second, I want to offer my deepest sympathy at the loss of your
> aircraft. I can't imagine how it must feel to spend years and then
> lose it on the first flight :(
>
> Third, I'm very glad that you shared your story with us. Maybe some
> other listers can learn a few things that will help keep them alive,
> and their planes unbent.
>
> I offer the following comments not as criticism of you, but as things
> for other listers to ponder.
>
> 1. You mentioned the high rate of descent due to the windmilling CS
> prop. This is one of the big drawbacks of the CS prop, as it
> automatically goes to full fine pitch trying to keep that engine
> turning at the selected rpm. I've never tried this myself, as I'm
> not flying a CS piston aircraft right now, but other listers have
> reported that you can get a lot less drag by pulling the prop control
> all the way back if the engine has failed. This would be a good
> thing to have in the engine failure/emergency shutdown checklist, as
> it may improve the glide performance, and make the flare a lot easier.
>
> The other thing worth thinking about is where to set the fine pitch
> stop on the CS prop. The info that came with my prop governor
> suggested setting the fine pitch stop on the prop so that you get
> about 50 - 100 rpm less than max rpm during a full power static runup
> - the rpm will come up to max during the T/O roll. If you can get
> max rpm during a static runup, your prop is probably set finer than
> it needs to be, and you'll have a lot more drag once the engine fails
> and the prop goes to the fine pitch stop. This could also cause an
> increase in stall speed at idle power (or windmilling), as the prop
> might block some of the air over the inboard wing.
>
> 2. What to do if you have engine anomalies? Most of my flight
> training was in the military. We did 200 hours of training on
> single-engine jets. The engines were fairly reliable, but there was
> only one of them, so we were taught to be very suspicious of any
> engine anomaly. We were taught to immediately start to climb if
> there was any suspicion about the engine, and to stay above the
> engine-out profile the whole way back to the runway. That way, once
> we had climbed above the engine-out profile, we knew we could glide
> back if the engine gave up the ghost. Our aim point in an engine-out
> situation was one-third of the way down the runway, and we used the
> longest runway, so we had some margin in the event we misjudged
> things. We practiced a simulated engine out event to touchdown on
> every second or third flight.
>
> Apparently, engine failures are fairly common during the early
> flights of homebuilts, so I'm planing for that event. I'll stay nice
> and high during my returns to the field, and use an overhead pattern
> so I can land from an engine failure anywhere in the pattern.
>
> Greg - good luck in your recovery. And best of luck with the
> insurance. Please post the insurance company outcome, and the name
> of the company once you get to the end of that road. I'm sure other
> listers will want to know which companies to go with, and which to
> avoid. Knowing this big audience is out there might help them decide
> to treat you fairly.
>
> Take care,
>
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Fire Extinguisher Placement |
Norman,
My RV-8 may have been one of the aircraft you saw (was there all week). Mine
is a 1.2 lb. halon unit mounted low on the back of the pilot's seat back. I
can reach and unlatch it easily from the pilot's position and I'm sure you
could to from the same position. I'm aware of the Von Alexander accident and
had this in mind when I placed it. There is a rather bad pic if anyone is
interested half way down this page...
http://www.rv-8.com/Interior.htm
Regards,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, N558RL, 70 hrs,
www.rv-8.com
> I saw some really nice RV8's at Arlington yesterday but several with
> their fire extinguishers in bad positions. It seems that no one wants to
> mount the bulky thing in the front office, the ones I'm talking about
> have it mounted between the passengers feet. I don't see how a pilot
> flying solo could get at the fire extinguisher if it is mounted there.
> This list has already lost a friend with this type of set-up. It appears
> that he had a fire, undid his seat belt, opened his canopy, and
> attempted to get his fire extinguisher. That is pure speculation but he
> was not in the aircraft when it impacted the earth.
>
> So RV8/RV4 and Rocket guys and gals, ya need to figure out a better
> plan. You shouldn't be passing your final inspections if you can't reach
> the fire extinguisher, after all, it is required flight equipment. I
> think RV8's should have two mounting brackets/positions for the fire
> extinguisher. Could it be mounted in the left footwell during solo
> flights then moved to the other position for dual flights? Would the
> pilot be able to get at it if it was at the spot of the passengers left
> foot? If you can't reach your fire extinguisher when you are buckled in
> then you need to do some thing different. Consider separate positions
> for solo and dual.
>
> The other option is to get one or two of the super small 1.4 lbs Halon
> extinguishers. These are so small and light that you will have more
> options available for mounting positions. They will fit up front some
> where. These are available at all the local auto speed shops. Remember,
> with Halon if you fill the cockpit with this gas you will need to vent
> immediately for your next breath of air.
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Congratulations |
Way to go Randall and Randy.
Good workmanship does payoff.
John Danielson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Van's Com Antenna |
| From: | "John Allen" <fliier(at)onebox.com> |
I have installed both the Wingtip VOR antenna and windshield com antenna
in my RV6A (sliding canopy)
The VOR antenna works very well and I have been able to reliably receive
signals at 90 miles at 10,500'. (Seal Beach VOR. I don't have an AFD
so I can't tell you the class.) I did have my buddy who is an RF engineer
spend an hour making sure the length was optimized.
The Windscreen Comm antenna is dedicated to the #2 Comm. It "appears"
less effective (weaker transmit signal) than the external COMANT antenna
mounted on the aft fuselage, however the differences could also be explained
by the differences in the two radios. It is certainly usable and there
have been two instances where the Controller was able to receive transmissions
off the windscreen antenna and not the fuselage antenna. Some users
have reported a "blind" spot aft of the airplane and I'm sure their observations
are correct.
The windscreen antenna is visible and not very attractive. Mine is placed
so that the roll bar support directly blocks my view of the foil. The
upside is the lack of drag and the low cost.
--
John Allen
RV6A-Flying
Sign Up Now! http://www.onebox.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: antennas |
> You are looking at ~2ft separation between the two antennas. To be exact,
> it's actually 61.7cm for an antenna matched for 121.5. The distance will
be
> shorter for the comm antenna so the separation should be determined from
> the longest (ELT).
[snip]
The separation standards are ideal but not always practical, and in practice
you'll find many planes with antennas closer than that with no problems. I
know there are a lot of planes with antennas closer than the recommented
spacing but I can't recall anyone mentioning that they have a problem from
it. I suppose there are some but it doesn't seem to be a common thing. As
for the ELT -- does it really matter how close that is to any other antenna?
Since it's never going to be transmitting except in an emergency (or
accidentally activated) it seems to me to be moot how close that is to any
other antenna.
For the record, my COM antenna (bent whip) is approx. 18" from my TXP ant.
and 16" from my MB ant., (all on the belly) and I don't seem to have any
interference problems.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~250 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First and Last Flight report |
YIKES.
It is GREAT to hear you are doing well after having gone through what could
have BEEN a last flight. As we say in hockey, nice save (your butt)! You did
an excellent job of using up the airplane to get yourself out of trouble.
Sounds like you were quickly running out of places to be and your decisions
were right on, with what you had to work with. "Try to make it to the
runway." A little comic relief, eh?
Let me see what I learned from your airplane's demise:
> For 30 minutes I had a glorious flight and was the happiest man in the
air.
> Returning to Hooks, when I turned on the boost pump the engine went rough.
> After trying various combinations of boost on/off and leaning I thought
the
> engine was running smooth and planned for a high speed approach.
Engine running rough. I guess my first thought would be to get back on the
ground NOW. My first flight was pretty conservative. I had made up flight
cards for every flight during the test flight and on my first flight, I had
a 120 mph limit. Surprise me: I was up circling the field and indicating 130
already. OK: modify that. 130 mph limit. Then I went out and had PLENTY of
altitude for my initial maneuvers, always within landing distance of a
field, or what I guessed would be fields close enough. I was used to a Cub,
and the fields were pretty close. Were you setting up for a high-speed pass?
Was that part of your flight plan? Did you have a flight card you were
following?
This is NOT a criticism of your first flight, but I am a proponent of a
pretty conservative first flight. It should be some simple stuff: will the
airplane fly. Is it controllable in flight. Will it keep flying for 1, then
5, then 10, then 30 minutes. Will it stall without any strange behavior, to
be found out at altitude, not on your first landing approach. Will it land
without too much fuss. Simple things. I hear too many stories of pilots
taking the airplane out on the first flight and "letting 'er rip, see what
she'll do". That is for later. And NOT that you were, but a high speed pass
is not on my first flight list. That is asking an untested airplane to do
too much, too early on. Then, pop the cork, toast the airplane and yourself
and do a post-flight inspection on the airplane. After all, this is the
first time your airplane has left the ground.
You probably didn't get a chance to toast your first flight, but you should.
Not every thing went bad.
>I hit a 6" dia. tree in front of the trailer. It hit dead center in the
right fuel tank, bent the spar
> backward and tried to rip the fuselage from the wing. The right
> tank burst from the tree impact and the left tank was punctured by the
> fuselage/wing interaction.
There is a modification of the front tank support brace to have a slot in
either the fuselage bracket or the tank bracket. Did you have this
modification? Just wondering if it worked like it was supposed to: pulling
out of the bracket rather than pulling the tank apart. This is the situation
it was designed for.
> Fuel was everywhere - I was completely soaked and there was a pool of
gasoline on the >floor (or whatever structure was there) in front of me.
Fuel is an odd thing. Sometimes what you think about it isn't particularly
true. I was watching a Cessna Cardinal once that had gear stuck in
transition between up and down. He made several (many) approaches and would
fly out of the pattern for a while. I made the comment to several VERY
experienced pilots that he must be burning off fuel and all three of them
said one would want to land with as much fuel in the tanks as possible as it
is the FUMES (vapor) of the fuel that ignites, not the liquid itself. In an
incident such as this one the fumes from the fuel happened after the
airplane had stopped, pretty much, and, as such, did not become a problem,
thank God.
> I was worried about maintaining speed during the turn and avoiding a
stall/spin.
KEY point: FLY THE AIRPLANE. So much can be going on and be going through
your mind but the FIRST thing on your mind is not restart, gas off, mags off
or anything but FLY THE AIRPLANE. All else you do is secondary, as it won't
matter if the gas is off etc if you spin it in.
> The descent rate was enormous with a windmilling CS prop.
Something to practice and know when you are out learning your airplane:
where do I need to be looking for that emergency landing field. Is that one
over there close enough, or should I be looking closer. You didn't have the
benefit of knowing what your airplane would do. Nice job getting it where it
needed to be.
After several hundred hours in our new airplanes, we tend to get complacent.
It has run without problems this long, it should just keep running. We drop
off our practicing of forced landings. The check list for an unwanted
landing should be as fresh in your mind as your preflight check list. And be
practiced frequently. It angers me when I am practicing mine and leave
something out. But I try to keep it fresh in my mind, just in case. You
never know. Airplanes, after all, are a mechanical thing and, as one person
once said, are out to get you, if you let down your guard.
>I had a crotch strap and the lap belt stayed low to do it's job (Pacific
Aero harnesses). I >added protection to the glareshield (split reinforced
fuel hose with foam pipe insulation
> over that). I can't tell if I hit it or not... but then that's the whole
> point.
You bet. Nothing better than 5 point harnesses. Sit in your airplane and
look around at what you wouldn't want to run in to. That includes a compass
sticking up where your face will show what direction you were pointed when
you landed.
> Second guessing: I've had 2 days to reflect and can come up with a million
> woulda/coulda/shoulda's, particularly knowing the outcome of one branch of
> the decision tree. I'm comfortable (and I'm the one that has to live with
them) that I made >"reasonable" choices given the circumstances at the
time.
You bet. If you had listened to the tower and tried to make it to the runway
(maybe a stupid thing for them to say), you may have not done as well as you
did.
>Once I wound up in that coffin corner on base, I think I made the "best"
choices coupled >with a lot of luck. I never once thought of saving the
aircraft. I traded my RV's life for mine - >it was a good trade.
Good choices. And you FLEW THE AIRPLANE.
>But I'll miss her - for 30 minutes it was the best time of my life.
Guess you'll have to build another one...................
Thanks for sharing this experience with us on the list. Every one who has
read your account has learned from it. Your airplane gave itself up for you
and gave us all some valuable lessons to boot.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Be careful out there.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Fire Extinguisher Placement |
> 5 pounds of
> halon blown into an engine compartment with any kind of combustible and
> moving air isn't going to do a whole lot. If you are in flight.....or
even
> have the prop spinning.....you might as well get out and blow on it.
Actually it will put out a fire with wind blowing through a cowl. The
Porsche gent must still have had a fuel source and ignition going on if his
forty pounds of Halon didn't work. Sounds like some one didn't build his
$250,000 car right.
Halon is a gas that puts out fire when only 5-7% saturation is attained. If
either fuel or ignition source has been turned off, a brief blink of Halon
will put out a fire. It is easy to believe that it won't work in a windy
environment but that is exactly how 747's put out engine fires. They use two
Halon spherical containers about ten inches in diameter. There is a small
inlet fitting/valve and a large (aprox 1.5 inches) exhaust valve. It is
covered by a bolted on thin plate of sheet metal with an explosive squib
glued to it. Two wires stick out and go to a switch in the cockpit. The
valve is plumbed to saturate the front of the engine interior. The balls
hold 600 lbs of pressure and that big valve can dump the contents in around
a second. The engine sees only a blink of Halon pass through. That's all
they need. Large companies have spent lots of dough testing this, it works.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pacific Aero Harness |
Marty,
I'll send you some pictures separately. I have intimate experience with the
Pacific Aero harness and the 5th point installation and can recommend both.
The best time to install it is before you rivet the bottom skin.
Regards,
Greg Young
RV-6 N6GY Houston (DWH) first flight/destroyed 7/12/2001
>
>
> Does anyone have an installation picture of the 5th point
> mounting for the
> Pacific Aero Harness on a RV-6? I am about to close in my
> fuselage and
> would like to put the mount in the seat ribs before I do
> this. I haven't
> purchased the belts yet.
> Marty in Brentwood TN.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | First and Last Flight report |
I guess it's time for re-examination and dissection of my accident. I posted
my story so we could all learn something from it and to promote discussion.
I desperately want something good to come from my loss. I can certainly
accept comments, criticism and alternatives in the constructive spirit
intended. With that said though, please don't infer my mindset or reasoning.
I'm a conservative, very analytical, ex-aero engineer and don't do much
without reasoning through it. I'm alive and able to participate in the
discussion and am willing to bare my soul as necessary. If you wonder "What
the hell was he thinking?" - ask me, I'll explain as best I can.
Not to single out Michael, but he raised a couple points that could be
misconstrued.
> > After trying various combinations of boost on/off and
> leaning I thought
> the
> > engine was running smooth and planned for a high speed approach.
>
> Engine running rough. I guess my first thought would be to
> get back on the
> ground NOW.
My thought too. I was already returning and 10nm out. Hooks was the closest
and best airport. The engine was running smooth so off-airport was not a
consideration.
> My first flight was pretty conservative. I had
> made up flight
> cards for every flight during the test flight and on my first
Mine was conservative too. I had a plan but did not put it on cards. I left
the ATA to get away from traffic, out of the Class B ceilings and over
better terrain. Hooks is on the edge of the east Texas forests, but west of
there is nothing but rice fields and ranch land. I planned on 30-45 min.,
climb to 3500' when able, S-turns for initial handling checks, checked
throttle, prop and mixture operation, slow flight with and without flaps, 1
stall with flaps, steep turns, engine parm checks and return. That's what I
planned and all I did. Pretty simple, pretty basic.
> and the fields were pretty close. Were you setting up for a
> high-speed pass?
> Was that part of your flight plan? Did you have a flight card you were
> following?
Whoa... when I said I planned a high speed approach, that was a reaction to
my engine problem NOT a high-speed pass. I meant a higher than normal
approach speed since I was carrying more power, longer to keep the engine
running smooth. This "Plan B" was to have all of the 8000' runway to bleed
off the extra speed if necessary. Altitude may have been a better choice for
extra energy but I opted for power and speed.
> You probably didn't get a chance to toast your first flight,
> but you should.
> Not every thing went bad.
My friends had gotten some champagne and Jack Daniels for my return. I've
asked them to hold it until I get well enough to get back in an airplane -
we'll toast my return to flying.
> >I hit a 6" dia. tree in front of the trailer. It hit dead
> center in the
> right fuel tank, bent the spar
> > backward and tried to rip the fuselage from the wing. The right
> > tank burst from the tree impact and the left tank was
> punctured by the
> > fuselage/wing interaction.
>
> There is a modification of the front tank support brace to
> have a slot in
> either the fuselage bracket or the tank bracket. Did you have this
> modification? Just wondering if it worked like it was
> supposed to: pulling
> out of the bracket rather than pulling the tank apart. This
> is the situation
> it was designed for.
I had the modification and the brackets separated as planned, on both tanks.
But this was NOT the situation it was designed for. The tanks ruptured from
other forces. Had the tree impacted outboard of the tank, perhaps, but it
hit the center of the tank. Imagine a full beer can on it's side. Now smash
it with a baseball bat...
> > I was worried about maintaining speed during the turn and avoiding a
> stall/spin.
>
> KEY point: FLY THE AIRPLANE. So much can be going on and be
> going through
> your mind but the FIRST thing on your mind is not restart,
> gas off, mags off
> or anything but FLY THE AIRPLANE. All else you do is
> secondary, as it won't
> matter if the gas is off etc if you spin it in.
Amen brother.
> > The descent rate was enormous with a windmilling CS prop.
>
> Something to practice and know when you are out learning your
> airplane:
> where do I need to be looking for that emergency landing
> field. Is that one
> over there close enough, or should I be looking closer. You
> didn't have the
> benefit of knowing what your airplane would do. Nice job
> getting it where it
> needed to be.
Thanks. Descent rates with the prop in fine and coarse pitch were one of
those things to be checked during the test period. Alas, that does no good
for the first landing.
> >But I'll miss her - for 30 minutes it was the best time of my life.
>
> Guess you'll have to build another one...................
The insurance settlement will give me options but it's too soon to broach
the subject with my wife. As you might expect it hit her pretty hard.
> Thanks for sharing this experience with us on the list. Every
> one who has
> read your account has learned from it. Your airplane gave
> itself up for you
> and gave us all some valuable lessons to boot.
>
> Michael
> RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
> Be careful out there.
Thanks Michael. That's my hope, that some good will come from this.
Regards,
Greg Young
RV-6 N6GY Houston (DWH) first flight/destroyed 7/12/2001
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: C/S prop end engine failures |
Are,
The prop governor needs an oil supply to work properly. If the
engine is windmilling there should be enough oil pressure for the
governor to do its job. The prop governor is a pretty simple thing -
it is a flyweight governor that moves some sort of valve to control
oil flow. They may contain a small oil pump to boost the oil
pressure - some other prop governors do, but I'm not sure about ours.
If the engine rpm is less than the selected rpm, the governor
releases oil from the prop, which lets the prop go to fine pitch. If
the engine rpm is higher than the selected rpm, it sends oil to the
prop, which drives it to coarse pitch.
Once the engine fails, it is likely turning less than the selected
rpm, so the governor dutifully tries to decrease the prop pitch to
obtain an increase in rpm. I'm not sure what the lowest selectable
rpm is on our governors. If the lowest selectable rpm is less than
the windmilling rpm, it would be worthwhile to pull the prop control
all the way back. Then the governor would would increase the prop
pitch to try to decrease the rpm. At least two other listers (Boyd
Braem and Bryan D. Jones, thread on "engine out glides" in May 2001)
reported significant improvements in glide performance by pulling the
prop control all the way back. I'm not sure which prop governor they
have, and whether these results are true for all prop governors or
not. It's something I intend to look at once I get flying. In the
meantime, my checklist for forced landing will include a step to pull
the prop control all the way back once I've given up on restarting
the engine.
If there is no oil supply (seized engine or zero oil pressure), the
governor can release oil from the prop, but cannot send more oil to
the prop. In this case, the governor can only allow the prop to go
towards full fine. If the engine is seized, it doesn't really matter
what pitch the prop is at, as the difference in drag would be
negligible. There is a bit of leakage inside the prop dome, so the
prop will slowly go towards fine pitch if the governor stops doing
its job.
Note: prop governors on multi-engine aircraft and competition
aerobatic aircraft work the other way - the prop goes to coarse pitch
when the oil is released from the prop. That is so that the prop on
ME aircraft will feather if all oil pressure is lost, and the engine
on aerobatic aircraft won't overspeed if the oil pressure goes to
zero momentarily during the transition from positive to negative g.
I'll be off line for two weeks or so starting tomorrow morning, as I
start my convoluted trek to OSH.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
>
>Kevin,
>
>I know it's bad practice to change the subject line but feel it is
>appropriate in this case.
>
>I am in completely unfamiliar territory here Kevin but are you able to
>change the prop pitch when the engine is not running? I seem to remember I
>had this discussion with a person that rebuilds Lycoming engines about this.
>For some reason I seem to remember that you *might* be able to change it
>*one direction only* if the prop is wind milling fast enough but not in the
>event of a seized engine. I can't remember if he said from fine to coarse or
>opposite but for some reason think you can only do it one way if loosing the
>engine.
>
>Is this right? Will you be able to change pitch if the prop is wind milling?
>
>Are
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
>Sent: July 15, 2001 10:14 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: First and Last Flight report
>
>
>
>The other thing worth thinking about is where to set the fine pitch
>stop on the CS prop. The info that came with my prop governor
>suggested setting the fine pitch stop on the prop so that you get
>about 50 - 100 rpm less than max rpm during a full power static runup
>- the rpm will come up to max during the T/O roll. If you can get
>max rpm during a static runup, your prop is probably set finer than
>it needs to be, and you'll have a lot more drag once the engine fails
>and the prop goes to the fine pitch stop. This could also cause an
>increase in stall speed at idle power (or windmilling), as the prop
>might block some of the air over the inboard wing.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First and Last Flight report |
> > and the fields were pretty close. Were you setting up for a
> > high-speed pass?
> > Was that part of your flight plan? Did you have a flight card you were
> > following?
>
> Whoa... when I said I planned a high speed approach, that was a reaction
to
> my engine problem NOT a high-speed pass. I meant a higher than normal
> approach speed since I was carrying more power, longer to keep the engine
> running smooth.
Excellent!! That is what I wanted you to say. I was keying on that to make a
point and, putting myself in your shoes, thought that was that you were
doing, not a high speed pass. I just hear about that too many times, as have
you, most likely.
Did I mention, I think you did everything right? That you are sitting where
you are, reading this is testament to that!!
Thanks for giving us the chance to discuss this, and your excellent
feed-back. Everyone fears that what happened to you will happen to them on a
first flight. If we can use it to learn, all is not in vain.
Thanks. This is part of what the list is for. I was thinking of you when I
was up last night......
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
You're right Randall - it's only ideal, not always practical. The difference
if they are closer is not that great but the idea is to keep them as far
away from each other as practical up to 2ft. I'm sure I will end up with
antennas closer than the recommended 2ft as well.
Are
RV-8 Wings
Ontario - Canada
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randall
Henderson
Sent: July 16, 2001 1:04 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: antennas
> You are looking at ~2ft separation between the two antennas. To be exact,
> it's actually 61.7cm for an antenna matched for 121.5. The distance will
be
> shorter for the comm antenna so the separation should be determined from
> the longest (ELT).
[snip]
The separation standards are ideal but not always practical, and in practice
you'll find many planes with antennas closer than that with no problems. I
know there are a lot of planes with antennas closer than the recommented
spacing but I can't recall anyone mentioning that they have a problem from
it. I suppose there are some but it doesn't seem to be a common thing. As
for the ELT -- does it really matter how close that is to any other antenna?
Since it's never going to be transmitting except in an emergency (or
accidentally activated) it seems to me to be moot how close that is to any
other antenna.
For the record, my COM antenna (bent whip) is approx. 18" from my TXP ant.
and 16" from my MB ant., (all on the belly) and I don't seem to have any
interference problems.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~250 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
I forgot to mention: The reason for the distance between antennas is not to
avoid interference between radios but rather to avoid inductive and
capacitive effects between the two antennas. This will detune the antennas.
If the antenna is detuned, it is very likely that at least 25-50% of the
transmitted power is returned to the radio. Not only do you end up with
reduced power but also a radio that *could* end up with a damaged
transmitter over time. The closer the antennas are to each other (<2ft), the
more the antennas in question could be detuned. If one or both antennas are
for receive, it won't matter ecxept a slight reduction in reception range.
I have repaired the transmitters in countless radios over many years due to
high SWR (caused by antennas not tuned properly (detuned)). In many cases,
the problems were simply that water and moisture get siphoned by the fine
braid in the coax and changed the impedeance in the cable. The fix is
usually to cut a few inches of the coax and install a new connector. So when
you do your antenna installations, be careful to make it in a way so it
minimizes the chances of water access.
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randall
Henderson
Sent: July 16, 2001 1:04 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: antennas
For the record, my COM antenna (bent whip) is approx. 18" from my TXP ant.
and 16" from my MB ant., (all on the belly) and I don't seem to have any
interference problems.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~250 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jessen <jjessen(at)CMBINFO.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV8-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 07/13/01 |
I wonder if this is possible for a 7 or 7A?
- - - - -
From: Frank Dombroski <f_dombroski(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV8-List: RV-8 Grove Gear Deal
--> RV8-List message posted by: Frank Dombroski
Inspired by an excellent deal on Todds Canopy, I
contacted Robbie Grove to inquire about a group
discount on his Aluminum Gear and Dual Piston
Wheel/Brake Sets. The gear saves 16 to 17lb vs. the
steel gear (verified by a -8 customer) - and looks
better to boot. Please see the Grove web site for
details www.groveaircraft.com.
I will delete these items from my Vans kits, its a
couple hundred dollars difference.
Robbie offered the following at a 10% discount, based
on 3 orders.
PN 1220-1 $1099.00 RV 8 Landing Gear Retrofit
Kit
PN 56-1 539.00 500 X 5 HP Wheel & Brake Assy
PN 5013 2 x 38.60 ea $ 77.20 500 X 5 Axles
PN 5710 4 x 3.00 ea $12.00 Spacers
PN 5510 2 x 11.00 ea $22.00 Axle Nuts
TOTAL $1749.20
10% Discount -174.92
TOTAL PRICE FOR ABOVE $1574.28
Grove Aircraft Company
1860-I Joe Crosson Drive
El Cajon, CA 92020
1-888-GEARLEG (432-7534) Toll-Free
1-619-562-3274 Fax
www.groveaircraft.com
robbie(at)groveaircraft.com technical engineer
teena(at)groveaircraft.com customer service
Please let me know if there are any other takers...
Thanks
Frank Dombroski
RV-8 One wing done, the other closing in. FB Fuse...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | C/S prop end engine failures and OSH |
Thanks for the clarification Kevin. I hope you didn't think I challenged
you - I just didn't know how it worked. As you explained the detailes, it
brought back memories from my discussion a few years back with the engineer
and it seems exactly as you said. We also discussed that aerobatic engines
were opposite.
Do you have a planned route for your Oshkosh trek yet? If you're nearby
Brampton let me know and I could meet you for a coffee in the flying club if
you have time. A friend of mine also has a 2500'x100 grass strip just 5
minutes from my house. He does have 80/87 for his own use but not sure if he
is allowed to sell it besides he might be working (Air Canada 767 Captain).
I am off on 14 days of vacation starting today. I'll be building like crazy
this week and travelling to Oshkosh next week so I can be available to
scamper down to Brampton on short notice.
In any case, have a great trip! I assume I'll see you at the RV-8 builders
gathering on Thursday morning?
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
Sent: July 16, 2001 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: C/S prop end engine failures
Are,
The prop governor needs an oil supply to work properly. If the
engine is windmilling there should be enough oil pressure for the
governor to do its job. The prop governor is a pretty simple thing -
it is a flyweight governor that moves some sort of valve to control
oil flow. They may contain a small oil pump to boost the oil
pressure - some other prop governors do, but I'm not sure about ours.
If the engine rpm is less than the selected rpm, the governor
releases oil from the prop, which lets the prop go to fine pitch. If
the engine rpm is higher than the selected rpm, it sends oil to the
prop, which drives it to coarse pitch.
Once the engine fails, it is likely turning less than the selected
rpm, so the governor dutifully tries to decrease the prop pitch to
obtain an increase in rpm. I'm not sure what the lowest selectable
rpm is on our governors. If the lowest selectable rpm is less than
the windmilling rpm, it would be worthwhile to pull the prop control
all the way back. Then the governor would would increase the prop
pitch to try to decrease the rpm. At least two other listers (Boyd
Braem and Bryan D. Jones, thread on "engine out glides" in May 2001)
reported significant improvements in glide performance by pulling the
prop control all the way back. I'm not sure which prop governor they
have, and whether these results are true for all prop governors or
not. It's something I intend to look at once I get flying. In the
meantime, my checklist for forced landing will include a step to pull
the prop control all the way back once I've given up on restarting
the engine.
If there is no oil supply (seized engine or zero oil pressure), the
governor can release oil from the prop, but cannot send more oil to
the prop. In this case, the governor can only allow the prop to go
towards full fine. If the engine is seized, it doesn't really matter
what pitch the prop is at, as the difference in drag would be
negligible. There is a bit of leakage inside the prop dome, so the
prop will slowly go towards fine pitch if the governor stops doing
its job.
Note: prop governors on multi-engine aircraft and competition
aerobatic aircraft work the other way - the prop goes to coarse pitch
when the oil is released from the prop. That is so that the prop on
ME aircraft will feather if all oil pressure is lost, and the engine
on aerobatic aircraft won't overspeed if the oil pressure goes to
zero momentarily during the transition from positive to negative g.
I'll be off line for two weeks or so starting tomorrow morning, as I
start my convoluted trek to OSH.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
>
>Kevin,
>
>I know it's bad practice to change the subject line but feel it is
>appropriate in this case.
>
>I am in completely unfamiliar territory here Kevin but are you able to
>change the prop pitch when the engine is not running? I seem to remember I
>had this discussion with a person that rebuilds Lycoming engines about
this.
>For some reason I seem to remember that you *might* be able to change it
>*one direction only* if the prop is wind milling fast enough but not in the
>event of a seized engine. I can't remember if he said from fine to coarse
or
>opposite but for some reason think you can only do it one way if loosing
the
>engine.
>
>Is this right? Will you be able to change pitch if the prop is wind
milling?
>
>Are
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
>Sent: July 15, 2001 10:14 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: First and Last Flight report
>
>
>
>The other thing worth thinking about is where to set the fine pitch
>stop on the CS prop. The info that came with my prop governor
>suggested setting the fine pitch stop on the prop so that you get
>about 50 - 100 rpm less than max rpm during a full power static runup
>- the rpm will come up to max during the T/O roll. If you can get
>max rpm during a static runup, your prop is probably set finer than
>it needs to be, and you'll have a lot more drag once the engine fails
>and the prop goes to the fine pitch stop. This could also cause an
>increase in stall speed at idle power (or windmilling), as the prop
>might block some of the air over the inboard wing.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Dysinger" <larrykdysinger(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: RE: RV8-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 07/13/01 |
Frank,
Is the Grove wheel and brake assembly usable on the steel landing gear? If
so, how is it better than what Van's offers.
I would go for the aluminum gear, but I have already received the steel
gear.
Larry
RV-8 1251
Ready to mount the LG
From: John Jessen <jjessen(at)CMBINFO.com>
Subject: RV8-List: RE: RV8-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 07/13/01
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:01:26 -0400
--> RV8-List message posted by: John Jessen
I wonder if this is possible for a 7 or 7A?
- - - - -
From: Frank Dombroski <f_dombroski(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV8-List: RV-8 Grove Gear Deal
--> RV8-List message posted by: Frank Dombroski
Inspired by an excellent deal on Todds Canopy, I
contacted Robbie Grove to inquire about a group
discount on his Aluminum Gear and Dual Piston
Wheel/Brake Sets. The gear saves 16 to 17lb vs. the
steel gear (verified by a -8 customer) - and looks
better to boot. Please see the Grove web site for
details www.groveaircraft.com.
I will delete these items from my Vans kits, its a
couple hundred dollars difference.
Robbie offered the following at a 10% discount, based
on 3 orders.
PN 1220-1 $1099.00 RV 8 Landing Gear Retrofit
Kit
PN 56-1 539.00 500 X 5 HP Wheel & Brake Assy
PN 5013 2 x 38.60 ea $ 77.20 500 X 5 Axles
PN 5710 4 x 3.00 ea $12.00 Spacers
PN 5510 2 x 11.00 ea $22.00 Axle Nuts
TOTAL $1749.20
10% Discount -174.92
TOTAL PRICE FOR ABOVE $1574.28
Grove Aircraft Company
1860-I Joe Crosson Drive
El Cajon, CA 92020
1-888-GEARLEG (432-7534) Toll-Free
1-619-562-3274 Fax
www.groveaircraft.com
robbie(at)groveaircraft.com technical engineer
teena(at)groveaircraft.com customer service
Please let me know if there are any other takers...
Thanks
Frank Dombroski
RV-8 One wing done, the other closing in. FB Fuse...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan Jones" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: C/S prop end engine failures |
>That is so that the prop on
>ME aircraft will feather if all oil pressure is lost,
Pulling the prop contol to low RPM works well to extend glide in my RV as
well as an Arrow I've flown quite a bit. However, be careful with this
trick in other types of planes (read, ones with feathering props). I was
practicing an emergency decent to landing in a Seneca a few weeks back, and
the guy with me and I decided we'd see what effect pulling the props back
(decrease rpm) would have on the glide. We were careful, we thought, not to
pull them into feather. Well, one started into feather at about 50-ft
altitude... not good for the go-around! glad we had a long runway in front
of us. Obviously, we should have tried this at altitude first.
Yes, for the emergency decent, we had the props full forward. However, when
set up too long, not being able to add power (simulated) is when I pulled
the props coarse stretching for the runway. At about 50-ft alt I lowered
the gear. At about the same time we realized one prop was feathering. We
got a good gear indication and landed without powering up. then made sure
the prop came out of feather. might have been interesting had we not got a
good gear indication in time for the landing.
Point being, be careful about trying something that works well for one
aircraft in another without being sure of the effect - have an "out"
planned.
Bryan Jones -8 765BJ
CFI, RV Transition Training
Pearland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com> |
| Subject: | Making your own antennas.... |
Hey Listers,
What's the feasibility of making your own blade antennas? I have done a
reasonable amount of composite work on R/C models (foam +
fiberglass/kevlar/CF) and it strikes me that a blade antenna is about the
size of the vertical fin on one of my models.
My thought is that I could take one of Van's foil comm antennas and glass it
into the leading edge of an airfoiled surface. This should present less
drag than the standard whip and would also be kind of a lark to build (for
me, anyway).
As long as the length is right, I cannot forsee any problems. The basic
construction design should be strong enough - it's been flown on a number of
models at over 250 mph.
Thanks!
Brad
RV6AQB...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV8 Fire Extinguisher Placement |
Thread-Topic: RV-List: RV8 Fire Extinguisher Placement
Thread-Index: AcENwQfkZnt/+AGATFKx4uunJivpCgAQFwqg
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
Check out www.coderedfss.com. A local gentleman here in Indy owns the
company, who, like Greg, survived a crash without fire. I have a friend
that has this system installed in his HR2; his orange Rocket will be at
OSH on Thursday and will have an extra system and literature on display.
The system is designed to soak the passengers with foam so YOU don't
catch on fire. Pretty neat setup. The system is activated through a 9V
battery which sets off a explosive charge in the tank dumping its
contents. The owner of the company is working on a G switch and also a
heat-activated switch. I believe the price for a high-end system is
around $800. Some of you may scoff at the cost but if you're like me,
if I was on fire I'd gladly pay ten times that to NOT be on fire. I
will be installing one of these in my F1.
Also, for a good explanation halon extinguishers in aircraft, also check
out http://www.h3r.com/faq1211.htm.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 178 hours
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Norman [mailto:nhunger(at)sprint.ca]
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 1:00 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 Fire Extinguisher Placement
>
>
>
> > 5 pounds of
> > halon blown into an engine compartment with any kind of
> combustible and
> > moving air isn't going to do a whole lot. If you are in
> flight.....or
> even
> > have the prop spinning.....you might as well get out and blow on it.
>
> Actually it will put out a fire with wind blowing through a cowl. The
> Porsche gent must still have had a fuel source and ignition
> going on if his
> forty pounds of Halon didn't work. Sounds like some one
> didn't build his
> $250,000 car right.
>
> Halon is a gas that puts out fire when only 5-7% saturation
> is attained. If
> either fuel or ignition source has been turned off, a brief
> blink of Halon
> will put out a fire. It is easy to believe that it won't work
> in a windy
> environment but that is exactly how 747's put out engine
> fires. They use two
> Halon spherical containers about ten inches in diameter.
> There is a small
> inlet fitting/valve and a large (aprox 1.5 inches) exhaust
> valve. It is
> covered by a bolted on thin plate of sheet metal with an
> explosive squib
> glued to it. Two wires stick out and go to a switch in the
> cockpit. The
> valve is plumbed to saturate the front of the engine
> interior. The balls
> hold 600 lbs of pressure and that big valve can dump the
> contents in around
> a second. The engine sees only a blink of Halon pass through.
> That's all
> they need. Large companies have spent lots of dough testing
> this, it works.
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Locating 10 year old Accident Reports |
I have found an engine that came from a accident
sometime in 1990. I have the N number from the plane.
Is there a place to locate the accident report?
Dan DeNeal
rv6a finishing on Tuesday!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuselage Jig 6A Chicago Area |
Turned the fuselage over last week, looking for a good home the jig.
Laminated birch ply (glued & screwed), after gluing all pieces run through
jointer to ensure straightness, then sealed with polyurethane. Jig assembles
with Lag bolts, so is adjustable, "T" nut and bolts used for leg adjustment.
Side pieces are a single piece, so will need to strap it onto car roof or
whatever to transport it.
Bulkheads fit exactly as per plans and fuselage is straight, so I believe it
is a good jig - haven't seen others so I don't know.
Lincolnshire, IL (3 miles west of "94" on highway 22,)
email djb6a(at)cs.com, work (773)-867-0161, home (847) 478-0748
Dave Burnham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Locating 10 year old Accident Reports |
Go here: http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/query.asp
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan DeNeal
Sent: July 16, 2001 10:55 AM
Subject: RV-List: Locating 10 year old Accident Reports
I have found an engine that came from a accident
sometime in 1990. I have the N number from the plane.
Is there a place to locate the accident report?
Dan DeNeal
rv6a finishing on Tuesday!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: antennas |
SNIP..........
> I have repaired the transmitters in countless radios over many years due
to
> high SWR (caused by antennas not tuned properly (detuned)). In many cases,
> the problems were simply that water and moisture get siphoned by the fine
> braid in the coax and changed the impedeance in the cable. The fix is
> usually to cut a few inches of the coax and install a new connector. So
when
> you do your antenna installations, be careful to make it in a way so it
> minimizes the chances of water access.
SNIP.........
I use RTV to seal coax connectors. Make the connection and seal in RTV to
include the connector and inch or so of coax line. For non-BNC
terminations, make the connections and again cover with RTV. If you need to
break the connection the RTV can be pealed off. This has worked well for
home antennas continuously exposed to the elements.
"Coax Seal" is a commercial wrap product that does essentially the same
thing. I find RTV easier to use.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (systems install)
Vienna, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan Jones" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Onboard for Emergency Landings |
>Fuel is an odd thing. Sometimes what you think about it isn't particularly
>true. I was watching a Cessna Cardinal once that had gear stuck in
>transition between up and down. He made several (many) approaches and would
>fly out of the pattern for a while. I made the comment to several VERY
>experienced pilots that he must be burning off fuel and all three of them
>said one would want to land with as much fuel in the tanks as possible as
>it
>is the FUMES (vapor) of the fuel that ignites, not the liquid itself. In an
>incident such as this one the fumes from the fuel happened after the
>airplane had stopped, pretty much, and, as such, did not become a problem,
>thank God.
>
First of all, I'm not judging Mr. Young's most unfortunate situation. I am
very sorry for his loss. The point of my post is to respectfully challenge
the concept of making an emergency landing with excess fuel onboard (see
clip above) in order to reduce the effects of a post crash fire. True - all
flammable liquids I know of have to vaporize to burn. But the amount of
chemical energy in 1 cubic foot of liquid gasoline versus 1 cubic foot of
gasoline vapor is tremendously different, making any landing with full tanks
more dangerous than one with empty tanks.
When a fuel tank is split open in an accident, the liquid usually sprays and
creates a mist or aerosol. This can ignite very easily, and once ignited
burns quickly - almost like an explosion. If the tanks are near empty, all
that is at risk for ignition is the vapor in the tank and what little liquid
is inside. A much prefered situation.
Maybe I mistook the point of the above post, but it appears to make the case
that there's some degree of safety in having full tanks in a forced or
emergency landing. I disagree and would not want anyone to think that full
tanks are safer than empty ones in an emergency landing. In addition to
reducing the chemical potential energy onboard, light or empty tanks reduce
the kinetic energy of the plane (less weight and lower stall speed).
If anyone disagrees, I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Bryan Jones -8 765BJ
CFI, RV Transition Training
Pearland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Scotchbrite wheel too big for grinder? |
In a message dated 7/15/01 8:42:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pbesing(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< I would go with option #3, and definitely not #4. >>
FWIW Paul is right about more torque from a grinder than a drill press but I
have been using a radial drill press and have never found it to be a problem.
One thing I do like better with the drill press is that I am able to get odd
shaped parts around the wheel better because it is more exposed.
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | Scotchbrite wheel too big for grinder? |
I took an electric motor and added an extended arbor and mounted it on a
tool stand (like a jointer). I have all kinds of room around the deburr
wheel.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Knoll
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Scotchbrite wheel too big for grinder?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J D Newsum" <jdnewsum(at)qwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Scotchbrite wheel too big for grinder? |
I went with your option #2. The Dayton buffer I bought came with large
retaining plates about 2.5 inches in diameter and 3/8 in thick on each side of
the buffer wheel. I made a large washer (same dia as the retaining plate
supplied with buffer) from .125 aluminum. With one of the supplied retaining
plates on the inside, my homemade washer on the outside and the Scotchbrite
wheel installed, 4 or 5 threads on the arbor shaft extended past the retaining
bolt. I agree with the other listers that some eye and face protection is
needed when using the Scotchbrite wheel. I went with a full face shield.
Dave
Brian Woodruff wrote:
>
> First post from a newbie!
>
> I just got a grinder to spin the 6x1 Scotchbrite wheel that I got from
> Avery. It's a Delta model that came with 3/4 inch wheels. The 1" wheel
> will go on the arbor, but I can only get a few threads of the nut on there.
> The side cover doesn't fit back over the wheel either.
>
> Anyway, I've heard about wheels exploding and so on... I'd rather have
> everything on there correctly. Has anyone else had this problem?
>
> Seems like I could
> 1) Get a longer arbor and shim out the side cover
> 2) Replace the plate that goes in front of the tightening nut with a washer
> 3) Take it back and find one which takes the 1" wheel properly (seems all
> the ~$50 grinders are set up for 3/4 inch wheels, though)
> 4) Give up on mounting it in a grinder and get a drill press instead
>
> Any advice?
>
> Brian Woodruff
> RV-9A Empennage
> Hillsboro, OR
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator interference w/ cowling (RV-4) |
Thanks for helping me think outside the box, guys. I see that I will
probably be able to shorten the alternator bracket just enough!
-----Original Message-----
From: Van Artsdalen, Scott [mailto:svanarts(at)unionsafe.com]
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 3:45 PM
To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
Subject: RV-List: Alternator interference w/ cowling
(RV-4)
I guess I may have not used the correct search terms but I
couldn't find
anything in the archives. I'm rough fitting my lower
cowling and ran into a
problem. My alternator is interfering with the fit on the
left side. I
didn't think I had trimmed that much from the cowling.
Anyone else have
this problem with their RV-4? I'm guessing I'm going to
have to put a
blister there. Anyone else have any better ideas?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Henley" <rv6plt(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-7 Prepunched? |
My RV7 vertical stab and rudder ribs were prepunched. I used an old RV6
horizantal stab and elevators.
John Henley, RV7 Wings
----- Original Message -----
From: Bobby Hester <bhester(at)apex.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 Prepunched?
>
> John Henley wrote:
>
> >
> > I received my wings 6 weeks ago ant the ribs are prepunched (along with
> > everything else).
> > John Henley, wings together and finishing tanks
>
> Great! But your Empannage ribs was not prepunched were they?
>
>
> --
> Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
> Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
> Starting RV7A empannage :-)
>
>
NetZero Platinum
No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access
Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
http://www.netzero.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alison and Neil" <alisonandneil(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-7 Prepunched? |
I am building the -7 emp right now and no, the ribs and some other parts
like the foreward spar are not prepunched.
Neil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby Hester" <bhester(at)apex.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 Prepunched?
>
> John Henley wrote:
>
> >
> > I received my wings 6 weeks ago ant the ribs are prepunched (along with
> > everything else).
> > John Henley, wings together and finishing tanks
>
> Great! But your Empannage ribs was not prepunched were they?
>
>
> --
> Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
> Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
> Starting RV7A empannage :-)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Fire Extinguisher Placement |
Hi Randy, congratulations on your award, you deserve it. I saw your plane
and it is very nice.
I glad you can reach your extinguisher, and I think you chose a good one. I
am regretting my huge tanks for all their weight. I also believe the small
one that you have will be easier to wield around in the cockpit if the worst
happens. I'm wondering how handy my 5 lbs canister will be in the small
confines of an RV6A. In the tandems the smaller canister seems more
versatile. The deciding factor in the size I chose was the 12 second run
time but there is no reference for how long we might need it. Every
manufactor could be different, I was able to compare 1.4 lbs with the 5 lb I
chose. The smaller extinguisher had a smaller outlet diameter. 5 lbs didn't
seem like much against 1650 so I went for it.
More thoughts on fire extinguishers for aviation use:
One thing to remember with any fire extinguisher, attitude dictates how much
you get out of them. When one is built they put the Halon in first then
charge it up with nitrogen. When discharging, you should always be aware of
where the pick-up tube is in the extinguisher you are using. Your average
handheld has the tube come down to almost the bottom. This makes it designed
to discharge in an upright position. If one was to hold it upside down under
the dash, the pushing agent (nitrogen) would blast it's way out and leave
behind almost all of the Halon. Not very good for fire taming. If the same
extinguisher is held horizontal, one might get half the Halon out. Either
way, when the nitrogen is gone, the extinguisher is dead.
My engine extinguisher is mounted flat on my floor. It is designed for use
that way. It gives me around 70% of the Halon in a steep climb or descent
and over 90% in level flight. I was led to believe that no extinguisher will
get all 100% out. Over 90% is considered good. Roll doesn't affect my
installation. These are factors that must be addressed in my fire checklist.
And yes there must be a checklist because when the Halon is gone it's the
end of the road. Fuel and electrical must be shut off before releasing the
Halon.
Halon tanks need to be shaken up every few months, shouldn't be a problem in
an airplane.
Halon is an odorless, clear gas that should not be inhaled. It is very
important that fresh air is delivered to the cockpit immediately after
blasting a Halon extinguisher. You'd probably need to anyway due to the
smoke. I have yet to buy my smoke hood, more research on that yet to come.
They are very light and worth having around.
I am rigging for high altitude XC flight where I believe I will spend most
of my time. I went for the engine fire suppression system because I don't
want to be on fire and 10-15 minutes away from being able to get on the
ground. Besides, it's very rocky around here. This might not be for
everyone.
Regards,
Norman Hunger
RV6A Building
PS - Nice domain name Randy!
> My RV-8 may have been one of the aircraft you saw (was there all week).
Mine
> is a 1.2 lb. halon unit mounted low on the back of the pilot's seat back.
I
> can reach and unlatch it easily from the pilot's position and I'm sure you
> could to from the same position. I'm aware of the Von Alexander accident
and
> had this in mind when I placed it. There is a rather bad pic if anyone is
> interested half way down this page...
> http://www.rv-8.com/Interior.htm
>
> Regards,
> Randy Lervold
> RV-8, N558RL, 70 hrs,
> www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Fire Extinguisher Placement |
--- Norman wrote:
>
> > There is an alternative:
> >
> > http://www.safecraft.com/Model%20AS.htm
> >
> > Sold by:
> >
> > http://www.ioportracing.com/welcomeframes.htm
> >
> > I've seen at least one other in a -8, and my -6 sports one.
> >
> > Fuel Off, Switches Off, Pull Pin, Pull Handle.
> > That and a small hand held for cabin electrical fires...
> When installing, take care to know the orientation of the
> tank you
> have. If you want to mount it horizontal then the tank has to be made
> with a
> pick-up tube for that position. The vertical mount tank will be
> different.
This prompted me to call SafeCraft today - spoke with their engineers
regarding mounting.
When I ordered, I got their LT system based on its being 2 lbs lighter.
Today they told me that the AS system was normally used on aircraft
(spun aluminum finish) but that the LT would work as well (and they use
the same discharge handle assembly; the only difference is the bottle).
We talked about the pickup tube and mounting. I learned that the LT
bottles are made up with the pickup tube as a matter of course, and
that horizontal mounting would be fine. Lucked out!
However - and Jim, this is for you in particular! The AS (spun finish)
bottles are designed to be mounted upside down and vertical! I didn't
think to ask if the AS _could_ be made up with a pickup tube allowing
horizontal mounting.
Jim, maybe you could install a spacer/ramp affair to allow your
horizontal mount to work with the discharge head forward and tilted
down - If you need to use the thing you'll be cutting fuel and
switches, thus decelerating, thus the material will move to the front
of the bottle... Don't forget to put the pin back in the bottle before
disconnecting the lines!!!
Anyway, that's what I learned this morning... no smart-assyness
intended :)
Mike Thompson (proud member, SAA)
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | C/S prop end engine failures and OSH |
>
>Thanks for the clarification Kevin. I hope you didn't think I challenged
>you - I just didn't know how it worked. As you explained the detailes, it
>brought back memories from my discussion a few years back with the engineer
>and it seems exactly as you said. We also discussed that aerobatic engines
>were opposite.
I didn't take your question as a challenge. Even if someone did
challenge me, I don't mind that as long as they have an open mind.
Everyone can make a mistake, so it is healthy if people challenge
things that don't seem right to them.
>
>Do you have a planned route for your Oshkosh trek yet? If you're nearby
>Brampton let me know and I could meet you for a coffee in the flying club if
>you have time. A friend of mine also has a 2500'x100 grass strip just 5
>minutes from my house. He does have 80/87 for his own use but not sure if he
>is allowed to sell it besides he might be working (Air Canada 767 Captain).
I'm heading to Yarmouth, NS tomorrow, and they we'll start watching
the weather. We could head for Otawa as early as Wednesday, July 18
if the weather is right. We'll overnight in Ottawa, and then
continue west whenever the weather is right. We're hoping to get to
OSH by Sunday, as dad wants to get into the vintage camping area so
the plane is in that hole in the trees.
We'll likely do the Bruce Peninsula one way, and south of Chicago the
other way, just for the variety. The biggest factor will be the
weather. Even if we go the south of Chicago route, I suspect we'll
be running further north than Brampton. We don't have a transponder,
so we want to give Toronto a wide berth, and it would be a bit out of
the way to dive down into Brampton's hole in the Toronto airspace.
But, send me your phone number, and I'll call you if we'll be heading your way.
>I am off on 14 days of vacation starting today. I'll be building like crazy
>this week and travelling to Oshkosh next week so I can be available to
>scamper down to Brampton on short notice.
>
>In any case, have a great trip! I assume I'll see you at the RV-8 builders
>gathering on Thursday morning?
The Thursday morning gathering is the only fixed thing on my agenda
for OSH. I wouldn't miss it for anything.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Fire Extinguisher Placement |
> We talked about the pickup tube and mounting. I learned that the LT
> bottles are made up with the pickup tube as a matter of course, and
> that horizontal mounting would be fine. Lucked out!
There are many different configuations, sizes, flexible or not, of
extinguisher pick-up tubes.
> The AS (spun finish)
> bottles are designed to be mounted upside down and vertical!
Sounds like there is no pick-up tube in this model. This configuration gives
the highest percentage of Halon discharge. I opted against this style in my
aircraft because I wanted to mount mine forward for CofG concerns. Vertical
could be tried on the firewall but maintenance would be difficult and I
don't think one could see the pressure guage during preflight. I didn't want
to install in the baggage compartment as that is where I will have oxygen +
I have the ski rack additional luggage compartment loading up rear CofG. I
also like directly activating the bottle rather than using a remote cable.
> I didn't
> think to ask if the AS _could_ be made up with a pickup tube allowing
> horizontal mounting.
My horizontal has a flexible pick-up tube that is sits the end in the middle
of the extinguisher. It is a compromise that will allow the vast majority of
the Halon out in most attitudes.
And yes, Halon systems are not cheap but I feel good about the money I have
spent on both of my extinguishers.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Fire Extinguisher Placement |
07/16/2001 12:27:26 PM
>However - and Jim, this is for you in particular! The AS (spun finish)
>bottles are designed to be mounted upside down and vertical! I didn't
>think to ask if the AS _could_ be made up with a pickup tube allowing
>horizontal mounting.
>Jim, maybe you could install a spacer/ramp affair to allow your
>horizontal mount to work with the discharge head forward and tilted
>down - If you need to use the thing you'll be cutting fuel and
>switches, thus decelerating, thus the material will move to the front
>of the bottle... Don't forget to put the pin back in the bottle before
>disconnecting the lines!!!
Mike,
Thanks for the info! This is good to know. Now I will try hard to be as
nose up as I can before I pull the pin. You might have saved my life.
My current plan is to :
1 - kill the master ( I can use my hand held to do my maydays and the GPS
has internal batteries for the "nearest" function )
2 - switch fuel off
3 - to extend the glide path as much as possible ( just a hair above stall
speed ) - I want to be going as slow as I can when I release the halon. If
you have stalled in an RV lately the attitude is pretty much nose up, I
mean really nose up, so I'm hoping that this will force enough of the halon
to the top of the bottle to do it's job.
4 - pop the pin and drop the halon bomb.
I wish I could say that I planned it this way but I think everything will
probably work out the way I have installed it. In retrospect installing
that bottle in the tail cone of an 8 in the inverted position would be some
engineering feat. Not a lot of vertical room back there for an ten inch
by 12 inch mounting plate, and building a bracket that would most certainly
have to be attached to the longerons and stringers that might get to be as
much as 6 X 7 ( bottle + halon ) = 42 lbs at 6 Gs could be problematic. I
especially don't like the idea of that inverted bottle coming loose from
it's mounting clamps after a bad bounce and rattling around my elevator
pushrod. Talk about bad karma.
Hopefully I will never have to let you know how it all works :-)
- Jim Andrews
RV-8A O-360 A1A Sensenich 85
( At the airport )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Locating 10 year old Accident Reports |
Try this:
http://nasdac.faa.gov/asp/fw_ntsb.asp
>From: Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Locating 10 year old Accident Reports
>Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 07:54:42 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>I have found an engine that came from a accident
>sometime in 1990. I have the N number from the plane.
>Is there a place to locate the accident report?
>
>Dan DeNeal
>rv6a finishing on Tuesday!!!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Hartzell storage procedure? |
In answer to my own question is a response I got from Hartzell:
Mr. Gelber:
The main thing to do is to keep the propeller in a dry location with the
blades supported. Example, if you are going to store it on a shelf, the hub
will obviously be supporting itself. You could use starofoam blocks to
support the blades. Or, we hold props on stands here. One type of stand
has a mounting flange and the prop is in a position as it is on a plane.
The next thing is to wrap the prop in a vacuum type container with a
moisture retardant. You might check a moving and storage facility for these
materials. The prop is to be visually inspected every six months for
corrosion. If it is in long term storage for more than two (2) years, you
must inspect internal and external parts (the prop needs to be torn down).
You need to replace seals and gaskets, parts as necessary, replace lubricant
accordng to the procedures in the propeller lubrication section. I am
sending you a pdf file of the pages from our 202A manual (Standard
Practices) for your reference. In this information, Solvent 23 is Kwik Dry
Stoddard Solvent, Solvent 109 is GE Spray Clean. 108 is Starrett M1
All-Purpose Lubricant. You may not need these, I'm just including them so
you know what they are as you read the pdf file.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Gelber
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 5:04 PM
Subject: RV-List: Hartzell storage procedure?
How does one store a Hartzell constant-speed propellor ? I got mine and the
documentation mentions a storage procedure but doesn't say what it is. It
just says that the box doesn't provide adequate support. So what do I do?
Matthew
-8A fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator interference w/ cowling (RV-4) |
In a message dated 7/13/01 3:48:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
svanarts(at)unionsafe.com writes:
> I guess I may have not used the correct search terms but I couldn't find
> anything in the archives. I'm rough fitting my lower cowling and ran into a
> problem. My alternator is interfering with the fit on the left side. I
> didn't think I had trimmed that much from the cowling. Anyone else have
> this problem with their RV-4? I'm guessing I'm going to have to put a
> blister there. Anyone else have any better ideas?
>
>
>
Do you have a constant speed cowl that uses a short hub? Does your cowl rub
on the alt pulley? My cowl fit with the alt in place but when I would go over
200mph the cowl would move against the alt pulley and rub a hole in it. If
this is what you are experiencing this is what I did, I fabbed a 1" Stainless
steel brace that just misses the pulley angled in the same angle as the cowl.
This brace connects to both bolts on the alt. I then glued a 1/8" thick piece
of silicone ( baffling material) to the cowl. The cowl now rubs against the
silicone and brace at high speeds with no problems to the cowl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: C/S prop end engine failures |
To expand a bit on Kevin's comments: the type of governor you use
depends on whether your blades are counter-weighted (aerobatic and
multi-engine) or non counter-weighted (majority of single-engine light
planes). CW blades go coarse (high) pitch with decreased oil pressure
and NCW blades do the opposite.
Also, if your propeller stops, it may not be a seized engine, you may be
just going too slow (watch out for the stall/spin). Time and altitude
permitting, lower the nose to pick up speed and put the prop control to
fine pitch (full forward) and then do your restart procedure (if the
prop starts windmilling, again).
Boyd.
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>
> Are,
>
> The prop governor needs an oil supply to work properly. If the
> engine is windmilling there should be enough oil pressure for the
> governor to do its job. The prop governor is a pretty simple thing -
> it is a flyweight governor that moves some sort of valve to control
> oil flow. They may contain a small oil pump to boost the oil
> pressure - some other prop governors do, but I'm not sure about ours.
> If the engine rpm is less than the selected rpm, the governor
> releases oil from the prop, which lets the prop go to fine pitch. If
> the engine rpm is higher than the selected rpm, it sends oil to the
> prop, which drives it to coarse pitch.
>
> Once the engine fails, it is likely turning less than the selected
> rpm, so the governor dutifully tries to decrease the prop pitch to
> obtain an increase in rpm. I'm not sure what the lowest selectable
> rpm is on our governors. If the lowest selectable rpm is less than
> the windmilling rpm, it would be worthwhile to pull the prop control
> all the way back. Then the governor would would increase the prop
> pitch to try to decrease the rpm. At least two other listers (Boyd
> Braem and Bryan D. Jones, thread on "engine out glides" in May 2001)
> reported significant improvements in glide performance by pulling the
> prop control all the way back. I'm not sure which prop governor they
> have, and whether these results are true for all prop governors or
> not. It's something I intend to look at once I get flying. In the
> meantime, my checklist for forced landing will include a step to pull
> the prop control all the way back once I've given up on restarting
> the engine.
>
> If there is no oil supply (seized engine or zero oil pressure), the
> governor can release oil from the prop, but cannot send more oil to
> the prop. In this case, the governor can only allow the prop to go
> towards full fine. If the engine is seized, it doesn't really matter
> what pitch the prop is at, as the difference in drag would be
> negligible. There is a bit of leakage inside the prop dome, so the
> prop will slowly go towards fine pitch if the governor stops doing
> its job.
>
> Note: prop governors on multi-engine aircraft and competition
> aerobatic aircraft work the other way - the prop goes to coarse pitch
> when the oil is released from the prop. That is so that the prop on
> ME aircraft will feather if all oil pressure is lost, and the engine
> on aerobatic aircraft won't overspeed if the oil pressure goes to
> zero momentarily during the transition from positive to negative g.
>
> I'll be off line for two weeks or so starting tomorrow morning, as I
> start my convoluted trek to OSH.
>
> Take care,
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
>
> >
> >Kevin,
> >
> >I know it's bad practice to change the subject line but feel it is
> >appropriate in this case.
> >
> >I am in completely unfamiliar territory here Kevin but are you able to
> >change the prop pitch when the engine is not running? I seem to remember I
> >had this discussion with a person that rebuilds Lycoming engines about this.
> >For some reason I seem to remember that you *might* be able to change it
> >*one direction only* if the prop is wind milling fast enough but not in the
> >event of a seized engine. I can't remember if he said from fine to coarse or
> >opposite but for some reason think you can only do it one way if loosing the
> >engine.
> >
> >Is this right? Will you be able to change pitch if the prop is wind milling?
> >
> >Are
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
> >Sent: July 15, 2001 10:14 PM
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: First and Last Flight report
> >
> >
> >
> >The other thing worth thinking about is where to set the fine pitch
> >stop on the CS prop. The info that came with my prop governor
> >suggested setting the fine pitch stop on the prop so that you get
> >about 50 - 100 rpm less than max rpm during a full power static runup
> >- the rpm will come up to max during the T/O roll. If you can get
> >max rpm during a static runup, your prop is probably set finer than
> >it needs to be, and you'll have a lot more drag once the engine fails
> >and the prop goes to the fine pitch stop. This could also cause an
> >increase in stall speed at idle power (or windmilling), as the prop
> >might block some of the air over the inboard wing.
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Fire Extinguisher Placement |
Two comments on your "IN FLIGHT FIRE" procedure:
After "2 - switch fuel off", you should have "3 - fully open throttle".
If fuel is the presumed source of the fire, you want to get rid of that
fuel as quickly as possible. If the engine is still running and getting
some of the fuel, it will be consumed inside the engine and the
increase in rpm will suck flames into the intake and away from other
vital stuff. With the fuel used up the fire may go out on its own.
Maybe you just worded it wrongly, but slowing down your glide speed from
the optimum at "L/D max" will DECREASE your glide path (distance). Your
AOA will be higher and with it, increased drag and your sink rate will
increase, losing valuable altitude for the rest of your glide, after the
fire is (hopefully) out. Also, slowing down too much can actually
increase the flames and subsequent damage. Some pilots have put out
fires by speeding up, like blowing out a match. The rush of air keeps
the flames and heat transfer suppressed.
I love Bill Shook to death, but his comments about the $250,000 Porsche
burning up after 40# of Halon were released had to be that there was
still fuel available for the fire to feed on. Jets and turboprops have
successfully put out engine fires with Halon while traveling faster than
we can, for quite a while, now, and the success rate is quite good,
provided that the fuel source is gone.
Boyd.
Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com wrote:
>
>snip<
> My current plan is to :
>
> 1 - kill the master ( I can use my hand held to do my maydays and the GPS
> has internal batteries for the "nearest" function )
> 2 - switch fuel off
> 3 - to extend the glide path as much as possible ( just a hair above stall
> speed ) - I want to be going as slow as I can when I release the halon. If
> you have stalled in an RV lately the attitude is pretty much nose up, I
> mean really nose up, so I'm hoping that this will force enough of the halon
> to the top of the bottle to do it's job.
> 4 - pop the pin and drop the halon bomb.
>
> I wish I could say that I planned it this way but I think everything will
> probably work out the way I have installed it. In retrospect installing
> that bottle in the tail cone of an 8 in the inverted position would be some
> engineering feat. Not a lot of vertical room back there for an ten inch
> by 12 inch mounting plate, and building a bracket that would most certainly
> have to be attached to the longerons and stringers that might get to be as
> much as 6 X 7 ( bottle + halon ) = 42 lbs at 6 Gs could be problematic. I
> especially don't like the idea of that inverted bottle coming loose from
> it's mounting clamps after a bad bounce and rattling around my elevator
> pushrod. Talk about bad karma.
>
> Hopefully I will never have to let you know how it all works :-)
>
> - Jim Andrews
> RV-8A O-360 A1A Sensenich 85
> ( At the airport )
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First and Last Flight report |
In a message dated 7/14/01 5:33:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
gyoung@cs-sol.com writes:
> . I traded my RV's life for mine - it was a
> good trade. But I'll miss her - for 30 minutes it was the best time of my
> life.
>
> Regards,
> Greg Young
> RV-6 N6GY Houston (DWH) first flight/destroyed 7/12/2001
>
>
>
Your story has a great impact on all of us builder / pilots, new and
experienced. I thank God you are still around to share this with us. May you
have a quick and complete recovery.
Tim Barnes
N39TB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Primer Solenoid Orientation |
So does this little Primer Solenoid care whether he's right-side-up,
up-side-down or sideways?
This the the one from Van's, labeled Parker but made by Skinner.
Had to email them (Skinner) to learn that the side marked "1" is out
and "2" is in... that's the state of their documentation...
Anyway, I've seen pictures where folks have mounted it every which way
but don't know how many of those are flying today.
Has a big nut on one end, two mounting hole on the other.....?
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer Solenoid Orientation |
> So does this little Primer Solenoid care whether he's right-side-up,
> up-side-down or sideways?
>
> This the the one from Van's, labeled Parker but made by Skinner.
>
> Had to email them (Skinner) to learn that the side marked "1" is out
> and "2" is in... that's the state of their documentation...
>
> Anyway, I've seen pictures where folks have mounted it every which way
> but don't know how many of those are flying today.
>
> Has a big nut on one end, two mounting hole on the other.....?
Mine isn't flying yet but......
This little baby looks like it is just an open/close valve that is
electrically operated. I can't see how orientation would matter since it is
not being used very much. I also wonder why there is an inlet and outlet.
Looking through it while it is open shows a straight shot. I used the two
mounting holes and then used the top big nut in a bracket I manufactured so
it won't vibrate around.
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Landing Gear Check & Repair |
| From: | Gary Graham <beeb(at)teleport.com> |
Since the subject of the landing gear mounting integrity is fresh in the
minds of the list members, I am submitting some comments based on what I
have learned and observed in the last 25 years of being an RV lover.
Check your landing gear for movement in its mount at each condition
inspection-IMPORTANT!
I know this is not easy, but either is the repair if a problem is
allowed to develop. You need to unload or unweight the gear to do the test
right. Make sure the way you lift the airplane is sound. Remove the wheel
pants and and the gear fairings. Check for corrosion and integrity of all
the other parts in the area. Try and move the gear in all directions
including rotational. Using the wheel assembly as the point where you hold
on works for me. If any movement is detected, analyze it or get some
expert help.
The quick and dirty method is: With the weight on the gear(the lighter
the better), grab the tire front and back and rotate it quickly forward and
backward in a rocking motion. For the nose or tail put hands on top of
tire or wheel pant and rock left and right. Any thunking sounds or feel
probably means a problem has developed. Do unload testing NOW an find out
where it is coming from. I believe that there is a factory retorque test at
50 hrs for the RV-8 flat gear that can be tested by the front/back Q&D
method.
RV's that operate off of rough fields or that have experienced hard
landings, or have experienced chronic wheel vibration on rollout are suspect
for gear socket mount hole damage.
Three point landing technique on nose wheel craft will sooner or later oval
out the mounting hole and or loosen the slip fit of the gear. In my
experience the hole in the round gear leg is almost never damaged, where as
the socket hole will need repair, if and when it starts to stretch.
Repair Methods that I have used/seen or considered:
On the plane repairs are difficult at best and the quality of the repair is
compromised, but it can and has been done.
The use of aircraft taper pins (usually Brown & Sharp # 3) This
requires a special reamer. (see ACS catalog). The final reaming is done as
an assembly. It has the advantage of being re-repaired by additional
reaming and new pins inserted deeper in the hole. (If the damage was caught
soon enough) "Take note tail-hook pilots : )"
The use of shoulder/stripper bolts(special hardened bolts that have a
grip larger than the threads) that have been machined or ground to the size
of a standard oversize reamer just big enough to ream a new round hole in
the socket. Make sure that the grip is longer than the O.D. of the
socket(make washers as required). The gear is reamed off the plane on the
bench with the same reamer. Assemble, align, clamp and file the damaged
hole using the hole in the leg as a stop(file it undersize). Ream through
all three holes. Assemble with rust preventative as the custom bolts are
not plated.
The use of hardened cone washers (like used on some truck axles). The
gear socket is counter sunk to receive the cone washers. The gear is
relieved so the cones will draw down tight into the socket countersink
without bottoming out. A new longer tight tolerance bolt is used. You
probably will have to get the cones made. I was not able to find any smaller
than 3/8" I.D. They come plated. (anyone find these in 5/16") These cones
usually have a narrow slit in them so that they clamp the bolt as well as
the socket when tightened. These have the advantage of being re-torqued to
eliminate side play.
Weld repair the hole and or weld a patch of hardened material over the
hole. If you do one side at a time you will have a better chance of
maintaining true alignment. Normalize the weld and watch out for too much
carbon in the repair.
As you can tell from reading this(you did read this with great interest did
you not). The help of a good machinist would be important. Everything must
be a tight slip fit before tightening.
When you build your RV, pay particular attention to a well fit gear/mount
(before tightening) and it will live long and serve you well if you treat it
right. Once movement starts you will be looking at a challenging repair in
the future.
I hope that anyone out there with some positive contributions about this
issue will let us all know what you think. That is how we learn.
Arlington was great!!!!!!!
Gary Graham,
Hillsboro OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Graham <beeb(at)teleport.com> |
A lot of the RVers at Arlington were using the terms "Assi " and "I'll be
your daisy" . When I got back I asked my dog Pugsley about the origin of
these terms. He Said:
The "Assi" were an achient people who mysteriously disappeared from the
south west region of the old west. The term " I'll be your Daisy" was one
of their ceremonial expressions.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Gray <bruce.gray(at)snet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell storage procedure? |
Hey Matt,
Send me a copy of that PDF file also.
Bruce
Matthew Gelber wrote:
>
> In answer to my own question is a response I got from Hartzell:
>
> Mr. Gelber:
> The main thing to do is to keep the propeller in a dry location with the
> blades supported. Example, if you are going to store it on a shelf, the hub
> will obviously be supporting itself. You could use starofoam blocks to
> support the blades. Or, we hold props on stands here. One type of stand
> has a mounting flange and the prop is in a position as it is on a plane.
> The next thing is to wrap the prop in a vacuum type container with a
> moisture retardant. You might check a moving and storage facility for these
> materials. The prop is to be visually inspected every six months for
> corrosion. If it is in long term storage for more than two (2) years, you
> must inspect internal and external parts (the prop needs to be torn down).
> You need to replace seals and gaskets, parts as necessary, replace lubricant
> accordng to the procedures in the propeller lubrication section. I am
> sending you a pdf file of the pages from our 202A manual (Standard
> Practices) for your reference. In this information, Solvent 23 is Kwik Dry
> Stoddard Solvent, Solvent 109 is GE Spray Clean. 108 is Starrett M1
> All-Purpose Lubricant. You may not need these, I'm just including them so
> you know what they are as you read the pdf file.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell storage procedure? |
please send me a copy to.
scott
tampa
abayman(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Primer Solenoid Orientation |
Hi Mike,
Check out:
http://members3.clubphoto.com/socal230330/RV-6_Builders_album/
for a picture of how I mounted mine. It's the last photo. Works fine.
Laird
RV-6 280 hrs
SoCal
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Mon, Jul 16, 2001 3:09 PM
Subject: RV-List: Primer Solenoid Orientation
So does this little Primer Solenoid care whether he's right-side-up,
up-side-down or sideways?
This the the one from Van's, labeled Parker but made by Skinner.
Had to email them (Skinner) to learn that the side marked "1" is out
and "2" is in... that's the state of their documentation...
Anyway, I've seen pictures where folks have mounted it every which way
but don't know how many of those are flying today.
Has a big nut on one end, two mounting hole on the other.....?
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)apex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-7 Prepunched? |
"Jim Norman, MD" wrote:
>
> What does everybody mean when they say "pre-punched"?
> What is that?
> Does that mean they don't need a drill?
> I guess the fiberglass pieces actually fit too???
>
The hole are are ready drilled, on the newer kit RV9, RV7 soon, both skins and
ribs will be drilled. Cleko them together and then drill to correct size. Jigging
up the pieces is not so critical, because the parts are already aligned.
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
Starting RV7A empannage :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | RV Baggage Lockers |
"socal-rvlist"
Hi All,
I've had some folks ask for more details on the baggage lockers I have in my RV-6.
You can see them at:
http://members3.clubphoto.com/socal230330/RV-6_Builders_album/
I went ahead and spent the time to draw up some plans. I scanned them and added
them to the album. I can also fax them to you if needed.
These should also work for the RV-7 and RV-9 as well.
I've had lots of people ask about the Hartwell latches I used. Spruce sells them
for $25 a pop. Ouch. I found a surplus house that had some (the chrome isn't
perfect) and bought all they had. I'm selling them for $5 each plus $4 shipping
until I run out.
Happy building,
Laird Owens RV-6, 280 hrs
O-360, Hartzell
Simi Valley, SoCal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charlie Oglesby" <charlie.oglesby(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | RV-7 Prepunched? |
This is the response I got from Van's today, so it should be current
information. Note that it does not indicate that the ribs in the tail are
pre-punched.
Charlie
--- --- --- ---
Yes, 95% of all holes are prepuched in the RV-7/7A kit.... this
includes the surface skins and interior skins and all wing ribs and
fuselage bulkheads....
The odd parts that are NOT punched are only the ones determined
to be easier to fit if some adjustment would be desired...
--- --- --- ---
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Hester
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 Prepunched?
"Jim Norman, MD" wrote:
>
> What does everybody mean when they say "pre-punched"?
> What is that?
> Does that mean they don't need a drill?
> I guess the fiberglass pieces actually fit too???
>
The hole are are ready drilled, on the newer kit RV9, RV7 soon, both skins
and
ribs will be drilled. Cleko them together and then drill to correct size.
Jigging
up the pieces is not so critical, because the parts are already aligned.
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
Starting RV7A empannage :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com> |
| Subject: | Question re: Whelen lights |
I'm thinking about buying the Whelen wingtip lights (with white position lights).
They give the option of having one power supply and running power wires to
the wingtips, or putting a power supply in each wingtip.
Comments/suggestions on which option works better?
Semper Fi,
John
RV-6 (wings...left wing skeleton drilled and ready for priming...starting on the
right wing)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tripp Myrick" <tmyrick(at)wans.net> |
Listers,
I am having a problem mounting the inboard aileron bracket on my left
RV-8 wing. The bottom outboard skin (W-805) is interfering with the
bracket. It appears that the trailing edge of the wing skin, the part
that extends past the rear spar, needs to be trimmed about 3/8" to allow
for the aileron bracket. I would have thought that since this skin
computer cut and prepunched that it would have fit without any
alteration. I can't find any mention of this in the plans and was
wondering if any other builders had the same problem. Any help would be
appreciated. Thanks.
Tripp Myrick
N138RV (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
"AeroElectric List"
| Subject: | Battery Wire Ends |
I'm doing the main cables from battery to the relays. I've got a three year
old wiring Kit from Van. This has lots of #2 wire (heavy) and the correct
size lugs with white rubber boots. My problem is at the battery. I've got
one from a jetski and it has 1/4 inch posts. The inner size of Vans lugs are
3/8 so there is a little slop. It goes away with washers and tightening it
up but is this allowed?
Also I would like to put a 45 degree bend "up" on the lug so the cable
leaves the battery traveling up. Is this allowed? I test bent one and it
still appears solid and fits real well.
Do I have to get new lugs to remove the slop?
If I do shouldn't I downsize to #4 wire? (firewall battery)
How many amps is #4 wire rated for?
Thank-you
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hurlbut" <shurlbut(at)island.net> |
| Subject: | Aerobatic Engine |
I want to put an aerobatic engine in my RV-7A.
Should I get:
1. AEIO-360-B1F rated aerobatic engine.
2. IO-360 180 hp with the added Christen Inverted Oil System.
I realize the AEIO-360-B1F has an oil pick-up near the top of the engine as
well as in the oil sump.
What are some other differences?
Is the inverted oil system in the AEIO-360-B1F all internal?
What would be the advantages and disadvantages of using these 2 engines.
My experience says that the IO-360 with the inverted oil system will be much
cheaper.
Thankx
Steve Hurlbut
shurlbut(at)island.net
RV-7A
emp, wings, fuse in box
Comox, BC, Canada
on the move
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JhnstnIII(at)aol.com |
Listers--Has anyone determined the engine out, prop stopped, fine pitch glide
ratio of an RV-6? Has anyone installed a full feathering prop in their RV to
improve engine out glide performance? LeRoy Johnston, Ohio, Tanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
It's the same with both of my wings. I have seen this area trimmed on other
RV-8's.
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tripp Myrick
Sent: July 16, 2001 9:28 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Wing skin
Listers,
I am having a problem mounting the inboard aileron bracket on my left
RV-8 wing. The bottom outboard skin (W-805) is interfering with the
bracket. It appears that the trailing edge of the wing skin, the part
that extends past the rear spar, needs to be trimmed about 3/8" to allow
for the aileron bracket. I would have thought that since this skin
computer cut and prepunched that it would have fit without any
alteration. I can't find any mention of this in the plans and was
wondering if any other builders had the same problem. Any help would be
appreciated. Thanks.
Tripp Myrick
N138RV (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
Feathering props: I asked both MT and Hartzell about this and they both
recommended against it, saying the extra failure modes in the feathering
prop would outweigh the added safety of the increase in glide in an engine
out. This is for a single engine plane- I think the answer is different for
a multi.
Matthew
8A fuse
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of JhnstnIII(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 6:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: Glide ratio
Listers--Has anyone determined the engine out, prop stopped, fine pitch
glide
ratio of an RV-6? Has anyone installed a full feathering prop in their RV
to
improve engine out glide performance? LeRoy Johnston, Ohio, Tanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Whelen lights |
I opted for the two supply configuration. I mounted the supplies on the
spar just over the most outboard lightening hole. I thought there would be
less chance for electrical noise with only 12 volts running out to the
wingtips and a very short wire from the power supplies to the strobes.
Steve Johnson
RV-8
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Lawson" <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 9:05 PM
Subject: RV-List: Question re: Whelen lights
>
> I'm thinking about buying the Whelen wingtip lights (with white position
lights). They give the option of having one power supply and running power
wires to the wingtips, or putting a power supply in each wingtip.
> Comments/suggestions on which option works better?
>
> Semper Fi,
> John
> RV-6 (wings...left wing skeleton drilled and ready for priming...starting
on the right wing)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Wire Ends |
You should be fine with washers on top and
bottom..just get as much surface area as you can. Or,
you could go ahead and spend a few bucks on the right
diameter lugs. Also, you should find someone who has
the proper crimper for those wires. I made up my
wire, stripped them, and then marked where the lug
should go (to keep from having to twist the wire) and
took it to a local FBO and they crimped them for free.
As far as bending them, I too did the same test. I
could not see how it would be a problem. Not flying
yet (next week hopefully) but that's just my opinion
from my initial testing of strength. Time will tell.
Keep the #2 wire. You can't be too safe, and the
weight penalty is not much to worry about. For the
current, you need to look at a current chart (there is
one on Van's wiring diagram) to figure how much
current #4 wire will carry. It all depends on the
length. For example, you could use #4 wire to carry
40 amps 2 feet, but not 3 feet. (just an example of
ficticious numbers, not real) When you reach the
length that it won't carry the specified current, you
need to size up the wire to the next gauge and so on.
====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Getting Close
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ET - #PU <psi(at)hillweb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Whelen lights |
If you have power unit (ballast or voltage converter or flasher, or..)
in each wing, separately, following benefits are expected:
- independent work, which is great recognition;
- great redundancy, two modules could not out at same time;
- less noise on other wiring, since it is not transfer pitch pulses over
wires to the flashers.
Also look on Aeroflash. Less cost and better design.
Vlad
>
>I'm thinking about buying the Whelen wingtip lights (with white position
>lights). They give the option of having one power supply and running
>power wires to the wingtips, or putting a power supply in each wingtip.
>Comments/suggestions on which option works better?
>
>Semper Fi,
>John
>RV-6 (wings...left wing skeleton drilled and ready for priming...starting
>on the right wing)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 N154PK Flies! |
Thanks to all of you who have offered advise over the past couple years!
FAA DAR inspection went very well, I had the certificate by noon. Spent
most of the afternoon putting covers and farings back on the plane. A
couple of storms moved throught the area and set-up the weather for one of
those perfect N.E. summer evenings, no wind..at all, and smooth cool air.
I had a friend double check the plane and I finished fighting the cowl, I
can't wait until that loosens up a little. The pins are very tight.
We had a light shower move through and I thought it might put things off
until the next morning. We kept at the plane and got everything ready for
the next day(I thought). We got done, and looked around and decided to send
the chase plane up to check the weather and fog. Everthing was ready to go
so I did some taxi tests as the other plane climbed out to 4000'. Chris
reported back everything was clear to the east and should stay that way for
a while.
I did a run-up, double checked everything and gave it a try.
AMAZING!!! it flew hands off on the first flight, it may need a little
rudder tab but not much. I stayed right over the airport and climbed to
4000'. Did a few stalls which went well at all flap settings. After 20
minutes of checking things I came back down.
The landing was slightly high. One gentle bounce but I was satisfied. I'll
have plenty of time to get them perfected.
A few things I have to work on, the oil temp went to 120 during the climb
which was OK but during the manuvers it went back down. My gauge doesn't go
lower so I don't know how low it was. I don't know if this is normal but it
doesn't seem like it should be. I suspect a bad sender.
My engine/prop performance seemed a little weaker than I expected. The RPMs
on the ground with a full power run-up were 2250. Climbout was at 90mph and
1000fpm. In climb and flight I didn't see anything higher than 2500. I
kept the speed below 160mph through the whole flight so I don't know if I
will get more out of it on a flat run. I just climbed out to 4000 and did a
few manuvers and came down.
I flew with John Henley a few weeks ago and his plane seemed a bit more
powerfull with the same basic set-up.
I'm using a Sensenich wood prop with 82" pitch and a Lycoming 320-E2D 150HP.
What a great day, the feeling when you finally get the plane up is
incredible. The hard work payed off!
GGRRIINN!!
Pat Perry
N154PK Flight Testing
Dallas, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tom sargent <sarg314(at)earthlink.net> |
I spotted an ad in Sport Aviation for a carboin monoxide detector made
by CO Guardian. See http://www.coguardian.com
I can't find them referenced in the archives: perhaps they're new.
They have a few panel mount models that look like real airplane
instruments - and cost like them too. They're in the neighborhood of
$300.00. The web page refers to a few "magazine articles" about the
product, but they are actually just new product announcements, not
product evaluations. Magazines will print almost any new product
announcement they get, so there's not much distinction there.
Does anyone have any first hand information about these products?
--
Tom Sargent.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 N154PK Flies! |
--- Pat Perry wrote:
>
> Thanks to all of you who have offered advise over the past couple
> years!
Congrats, Pat.
See you at a Texas fly-in some day!
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com> |
| Subject: | Battery Wire Ends |
Get some new lugs from Aeroelectric Bob... the ones that fit the number 2
wire and have the correct size hole. Then, take your hacksaw and cut off
the old crimped on lug. Then, fire up your little portable propane torch
and get a couple of feet of your RadioShack solder (with rosin core) and
have at it. Its fun, it takes about 2 minutes, and you get as good or
better result (I think the result is so much better, that I re-did all of my
crimped "fat" wires. Here is the web site with the pictures of what to buy.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/wiring.html#s816p
I re-did all of mine last week. Remember to put a piece of shrink wrap on
it before you put the lug on it. The lugs are $1.00 each.
jim
Tampa
6A (with perfect "fat" wires)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Whelen lights |
In a message dated 7/16/01 6:19:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jwlawson(at)hargray.com writes:
<< I'm thinking about buying the Whelen wingtip lights (with white position
lights). They give the option of having one power supply and running power
wires to the wingtips, or putting a power supply in each wingtip.
Comments/suggestions on which option works better? >>
It's a classic cost vs benefit issue. I think that two single power supplies
is the way to go because it allows you to keep the high voltage lines short
(by mounting at the tip ribs) for lower weight and theoretically less
opportunity for noise in the radios. Also if one supply goes TU, you still
have the other (a consideration for night flying) plugging away. The cost is
slightly higher than the dual supply.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Wire Ends |
In a message dated 7/16/01 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
nhunger(at)sprint.ca writes:
<< I've got a three year
old wiring Kit from Van. This has lots of #2 wire (heavy) and the correct
size lugs with white rubber boots. My problem is at the battery. I've got
one from a jetski and it has 1/4 inch posts. The inner size of Vans lugs are
3/8 so there is a little slop. It goes away with washers and tightening it
up but is this allowed? >>
I think that you will get better results if the terminals are properly sized
for the terminals (whether it is allowed or not is a moot point) so think
total contact area when you are dealing with high current circuits. I think
that, in the case of RVs having the battery up front near the firewall, you
have a good opportunity to keep these big wiring runs short. If they are
short then you can reduce the wire size accordingly. Mine is all 4 AWG as
are many others of which I am aware. Check the charts in AC43.13-1B to
verify the situation for your installation.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 7/16/01 6:42:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
JhnstnIII(at)aol.com writes:
<< Has anyone determined the engine out, prop stopped, fine pitch glide
ratio of an RV-6? >>
My records show max L/D of my 6A as 12.21 at 106 mph.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hurlbut" <shurlbut(at)island.net> |
I've been priming the interior of the emp and the wings with Sherman
Williams 988 rattle cans.
Quick and easy.
I want to prime the cockpit with Stits Polyfiber epoxy Primer since it will
handle the abuse better.
Has anybody done this before?
Any problem with having the primer touch? The primers will rest against each
other in the emp attachment points.
I've mixed them as a test and no reaction visible after several weeks.
Comments?
Steve Hurlbut
Comox, BC
shurlbut(at)island.net
RV-7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com> |
| Subject: | Question re: Whelen vs Aeroflash wingtip lights |
Thanks to all who answered my question about wingtip lights, much appreciated!
A follow-on question - any comments from the assembled multitudes on the pros/cons
of Whelen and Aeroflash lights? One lister suggested the Aeroflash lights
because they are less expensive...other thoughts?
Semper Fi
John
RV-6 (wings...pondering options...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Whelen vs Aeroflash wingtip lights |
John
There is a lot of info in the archives on this subject. I am going from memory
here, so I may be wrong. The Aeroflash units are less expensive than the Whelen
units. They also produce less light. The Aeroflash
units produce about 100 candlepower, whereas the Whelen units produce about 400
candlepower. So, as you can see, it's not an apples to apples comparison.
Charlie Kuss
>
> Thanks to all who answered my question about wingtip lights, much appreciated!
>
> A follow-on question - any comments from the assembled multitudes on the pros/cons
of Whelen and Aeroflash lights? One lister suggested the Aeroflash lights
because they are less expensive...other thoughts?
>
> Semper Fi
> John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Fire Extinguisher Placement |
07/17/2001 08:23:19 AM
>Maybe you just worded it wrongly, but slowing down your glide speed from
>the optimum at "L/D max" will DECREASE your glide path (distance). Your
>AOA will be higher and with it, increased drag and your sink rate will
>increase, losing valuable altitude for the rest of your glide, after the
>fire is (hopefully) out. Also, slowing down too much can actually
>increase the flames and subsequent damage. Some pilots have put out
>fires by speeding up, like blowing out a match. The rush of air keeps
>the flames and heat transfer suppressed.
Boyd,
Thanks! Your absolutely correct regarding the throttle. I will amend my
checklist.
I understand the significance of keeping the bird at L/D max to keep from
burning up to much altitude ( no pun intended ) but I'm a little fuzzy on
the whole prospect of increasing airspeed while your trying to extinguish
the fire. I understand that you can pull the fire up into the carb and
sometimes you can snuff it out with enough air but if your going to try and
extinguish it by halon wouldn't you want the least amount of air to compete
with for the few seconds that your trying to put the fire out?
- Jim Andrews
RV-8A ( at the airport )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ET - #PU <psi(at)hillweb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Whelen vs Aeroflash wingtip lights |
Aeroflash vs. Whelen
I have use both of them. I do not notice any significant (4 times!)
difference in candlepower. I look close on circuits - all same, with even
similar capacitance and energy storage/transformation.
There is nothing like magic of four time difference with same
components in electronics.
Buy cheaper!
Vlad
>
>John
> There is a lot of info in the archives on this subject. I am going from
> memory here, so I may be wrong. The Aeroflash units are less expensive
> than the Whelen units. They also produce less light. The Aeroflash
>units produce about 100 candlepower, whereas the Whelen units produce
>about 400 candlepower. So, as you can see, it's not an apples to apples
>comparison.
>Charlie Kuss
>
> >
> > Thanks to all who answered my question about wingtip lights, much
> appreciated!
> >
> > A follow-on question - any comments from the assembled multitudes on
> the pros/cons of Whelen and Aeroflash lights? One lister suggested the
> Aeroflash lights because they are less expensive...other thoughts?
> >
> > Semper Fi
> > John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 emp for sale |
For Sale:
RV-8 empennage kit. Electric trim option. Provision for tail light.
Purchased Sept. 2000. Still in unopened boxes. Preview plans/construction
manual included. $1395, buyer pays shipping.
Reply off-list to: IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com
Tim Bronson
Pittsburgh, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Running wire to the tail |
I was looking at the wiring diagram for the electric
elevator trim tab. It shows using 5 wires to make it
work with the gauge. It calls for 26 or 28 gauge wire.
The wiring diagram also said that Mac has a special
color coated wire for the long run. Who is selling
this Mac wire? or is it cheaper just to buy 100 ft and
cut it 5 ways. (the length from instrument panel to
trim tab is about 20 ft.)
Dan DeNeal
rv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Strange Words |
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
Hummmm . . . I thought that term was what the big mean horney guys in
prison used when they saw a new cute little guy.
Cecil
writes:
>
> A lot of the RVers at Arlington were using the terms "Assi " and
> "I'll be
> your daisy" . When I got back I asked my dog Pugsley about the
> origin of
> these terms. He Said:
>
> The "Assi" were an achient people who mysteriously disappeared
> from the
> south west region of the old west. The term " I'll be your Daisy"
> was one
> of their ceremonial expressions.
>
> Gary
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com |
| Subject: | Re: Running wire to the tail |
07/17/2001 10:31:20 AM
>I was looking at the wiring diagram for the electric
>elevator trim tab. It shows using 5 wires to make it
>work with the gauge. It calls for 26 or 28 gauge wire.
>The wiring diagram also said that Mac has a special
>color coated wire for the long run. Who is selling
>this Mac wire? or is it cheaper just to buy 100 ft and
>cut it 5 ways. (the length from instrument panel to
>trim tab is about 20 ft.)
>Dan DeNeal
>rv6a
Dan,
I just did this. Go ahead and buy the special color coated wire from
Menzimer ( 760 598 0592 ) in Ca. Worth the cash. I think it was about $1
per foot.
The color coding will save you a lot of time. Buy a few extra feet while
your at it. Amazing how a few bends can add to the length required :-)
- Jim Andrews
RV-8A ( at the airport )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | efortner <efortner(at)vnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Scotchbrite wheel too big for grinder? |
I bought a grinder at Norther Hydralics that had a grinder wheel on one side
and a cloth buffer wheen on the othe side with no guards. I took the buffer off
and installed the scotchbrite. It is now about 4" in diameter and the plane is
about
finished. The shaft on the buffer side was larger and I had to drill out the
center hole of the scotchbrite wheel to get it on. Don't think you have to
worry
about it exploding unless you get a high speed motor that turns faster than the
grinders.
Earl RV4
Brian Woodruff wrote:
>
> First post from a newbie!
>
> I just got a grinder to spin the 6x1 Scotchbrite wheel that I got from
> Avery. It's a Delta model that came with 3/4 inch wheels. The 1" wheel
> will go on the arbor, but I can only get a few threads of the nut on there.
> The side cover doesn't fit back over the wheel either.
>
> Anyway, I've heard about wheels exploding and so on... I'd rather have
> everything on there correctly. Has anyone else had this problem?
>
> Seems like I could
> 1) Get a longer arbor and shim out the side cover
> 2) Replace the plate that goes in front of the tightening nut with a washer
> 3) Take it back and find one which takes the 1" wheel properly (seems all
> the ~$50 grinders are set up for 3/4 inch wheels, though)
> 4) Give up on mounting it in a grinder and get a drill press instead
>
> Any advice?
>
> Brian Woodruff
> RV-9A Empennage
> Hillsboro, OR
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | Replacement license |
Not RV related.
Does anybody know who/how to contact for a replacement copy of your pilot's
license. My pickup was broken into last nite and my wallet stolen. I'm
working on getting everything replaced/cancelled.
Greg Tanner
RV-9A WINGS
O-320 D1A/CATTO
N80BR RESERVED
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Waalkes" <waalkes(at)netnitco.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Scotchbrite wheel too big for grinder? |
Do the wheels have a risk of exploding if use exclusively on aluminum? I
thought the risk was just when using it on steel parts.
Bob Waalkes
RV-8 EMP
----- Original Message -----
From: "efortner" <efortner(at)vnet.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 2:58 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Scotchbrite wheel too big for grinder?
>
> I bought a grinder at Norther Hydralics that had a grinder wheel on one
side
> and a cloth buffer wheen on the othe side with no guards. I took the
buffer off
>
> and installed the scotchbrite. It is now about 4" in diameter and the
plane is
> about
> finished. The shaft on the buffer side was larger and I had to drill out
the
> center hole of the scotchbrite wheel to get it on. Don't think you have to
> worry
> about it exploding unless you get a high speed motor that turns faster
than the
>
> grinders.
> Earl RV4
>
> Brian Woodruff wrote:
>
> >
> > First post from a newbie!
> >
> > I just got a grinder to spin the 6x1 Scotchbrite wheel that I got from
> > Avery. It's a Delta model that came with 3/4 inch wheels. The 1" wheel
> > will go on the arbor, but I can only get a few threads of the nut on
there.
> > The side cover doesn't fit back over the wheel either.
> >
> > Anyway, I've heard about wheels exploding and so on... I'd rather have
> > everything on there correctly. Has anyone else had this problem?
> >
> > Seems like I could
> > 1) Get a longer arbor and shim out the side cover
> > 2) Replace the plate that goes in front of the tightening nut with a
washer
> > 3) Take it back and find one which takes the 1" wheel properly (seems
all
> > the ~$50 grinders are set up for 3/4 inch wheels, though)
> > 4) Give up on mounting it in a grinder and get a drill press instead
> >
> > Any advice?
> >
> > Brian Woodruff
> > RV-9A Empennage
> > Hillsboro, OR
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | Replacement license |
I found what I needed on the FAA site. Sorry.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Greg Tanner
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 10:08 AM
Subject: RV-List: Replacement license
Not RV related.
Does anybody know who/how to contact for a replacement copy of your pilot's
license. My pickup was broken into last nite and my wallet stolen. I'm
working on getting everything replaced/cancelled.
Greg Tanner
RV-9A WINGS
O-320 D1A/CATTO
N80BR RESERVED
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Hughes" <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net> |
I am fitting the tip-up canopy on the RV-6. I screwed up by previously
riveting the cabin brace between the f-606 and the f-631, so the canopy has
been resting on that and the front edge of the canopy skin. There is a gap
between the roll bar and the plexiglass. I have been trimming from the
front and the gap has narrowed from over 1/2 inch, to about 3/16 inch
currently. I am hesitant to keep trimming, because the overall canopy
length is currently 64.5 inches, 1/2 inch less than what the plans tell you
are approximate. My question is, should I keep trimming, try trimming the
aft part, or resign myself to shimming the roll bar to meet the canopy?
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.
Keith
RV-6 Canopy
Parker, CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 canopy fit |
KEITH
stop trimming ! is the rear window cut off the main piece yet? when you do
this the canopy will lay flat on the roll bar.
if you keep trimming the front you will end up wit a gap between the plexi
and the skin.
ask me how i know this.
scott
tampa
rv6a finishing wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
I vote for shimming the canopy. In addition to making the canopy shorter by
trimming, you are also making the canopy less tall. In other words,
additional trimming with reduce your headroom. You'll be happier with more
head room.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
RV-6A Almost done
-----Original Message-----
I am fitting the tip-up canopy on the RV-6. I screwed up by previously
riveting the cabin brace between the f-606 and the f-631, so the canopy has
been resting on that and the front edge of the canopy skin. There is a gap
between the roll bar and the plexiglass. I have been trimming from the
front and the gap has narrowed from over 1/2 inch, to about 3/16 inch
currently. I am hesitant to keep trimming,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Gregory <sgregory(at)best.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Wing skin |
Tripp Myrick wrote:
>
> Listers,
> I am having a problem mounting the inboard aileron bracket on my left
> RV-8 wing. The bottom outboard skin (W-805) is interfering with the
> bracket. It appears that the trailing edge of the wing skin, the part
> that extends past the rear spar, needs to be trimmed about 3/8" to allow
> for the aileron bracket. I would have thought that since this skin
> computer cut and prepunched that it would have fit without any
> alteration. I can't find any mention of this in the plans and was
> wondering if any other builders had the same problem. Any help would be
> appreciated. Thanks.
>
> Tripp Myrick
> N138RV (reserved)
>
My left and right aileron brackets were mislabeled. Sure enough when the
one labeled "left" was fitted to the left wing (QB) it mis-fit as you
described. The bracket labeled "right" fit just fine. This might be the
problem. Double check for sure. I would try this before trimming any wing
skin.
--
Blue Skies....
Steve Gregory
RV-8QB (wings)
Livermore, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 canopy fit |
I doubt you'll have to shim. Can you press the canopy easily down onto the
rollbar? If so that is where it will sit when you split the bubble. It
sounds like it is time now for the dreaded cut........
Norman Hunger
RV6A Tip up right behind you
> I am fitting the tip-up canopy on the RV-6. I screwed up by previously
> riveting the cabin brace between the f-606 and the f-631, so the canopy
has
> been resting on that and the front edge of the canopy skin. There is a
gap
> between the roll bar and the plexiglass. I have been trimming from the
> front and the gap has narrowed from over 1/2 inch, to about 3/16 inch
> currently. I am hesitant to keep trimming, because the overall canopy
> length is currently 64.5 inches, 1/2 inch less than what the plans tell
you
> are approximate. My question is, should I keep trimming, try trimming the
> aft part, or resign myself to shimming the roll bar to meet the canopy?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mitchf(at)netscape.com (Mitchell Faatz) |
| Subject: | Re: RV's and IFR |
John Jessen wrote:
>
>...There will be the occasion when I will need to fly
>light to medium IFR one cross countries and want to hear
>
I have struggled with this since I started building. I'm on the
finishing kit now, and currently in the process of getting my IFR
rating. I was unsure of how much IFR I would really be flying in my RV
to justify the cost, but after flying some approaches and learning the
system I think I might use it enough to justify it. What pushed me over
the edge was the realization that just being able to use my own plane to
keep IFR current without putting up with the club rental crap would be
golden. I'm building my panel with a Garmin 430 and a remote CDI, and a
Narco Nav122D (CDI with built-in Nav receiver). Between these two I'll
be able to shoot the majority of the approaches in the country. Sadly,
my bazillion hour IFR instructor said I *need* to get a dual axis
auto-pilot, I was hoping to get by with a Navaid but I guess not ($$$).
Guess I'll start looking at the S-TEC System 30.
So I can't help you with stories of IFR I've flown in an RV, but I can
share some of my thought process. How come the market is so crappy now
that I need to buy big ticket avionics? ;)
Mitch Faatz San Mateo, CA RV-6A Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 canopy fit |
If you are that close, cut it. It will drop into
place. Just make sure that the back window is pulling
itself against the inside of the rear skin. If that
is tight, and all you have to do is push down the
front, then you are ready to go. BTW, I highly
reccommend Sam Buchanan's idea...it's on my website on
the canopy page. It is little alluminum clips that
hold the front down so you can work on the sides
without the front going up. I've done it twice now,
and it works very well. Leave them in there and glass
the fairing right over them.
====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Getting Close
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Hughes" <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 canopy fit |
Norman,
Norman,
If I put a medium amount of force on it, it goes down, but it seems like
that would preload it and make it more susceptible to cracking. By the way,
"the dreaded cut" is right! I've been trying to cut straight on all my
"practice" cuts. It's harder to do over the entire span than I would have
thought. Oh well, there's always the fiberglass "targa" strip.
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: Norman <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 canopy fit
>
> I doubt you'll have to shim. Can you press the canopy easily down onto the
> rollbar? If so that is where it will sit when you split the bubble. It
> sounds like it is time now for the dreaded cut........
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Tip up right behind you
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Whelen vs Aeroflash wingtip lights |
Also keep in mind that the Aeroflash units are STC'd
for all GA airplanes before the mid '80's So, most
planes we see are before the mid 80's. With that, the
Aeroflash are plenty bright. I couldn't justify twice
the cost for Whelens, when the aeroflash units are
just as bright as most GA airplanes out there.
====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Getting Close
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Although I'm light years away from completion, I have considered making my 8
IFR. The bad thing is I won't be able to receive dual in it, shucks! But,
it seems with the climb and cruise performance a guy most probably won't be
cruising down around 2500 feet. More possibly around 10k+. Most of the
time IFR would help to cruise up there without busting cloud minimums.
Jack
RV8, 1st tank done
Will head to OSH Monday
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV's and IFR |
Listers,
Mike Seager CFII,
has probably more hours in an RV than anyone, and suggest the the RV not be
used as an IFR platform.
just a thought,
my rv is IFR equiped only as a safty precaution.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com> |
Why do you need a dual axis autopilot? Sure, they're nice, and I can see
the need for a wing leveler (and will be putting a Navaid AP in my
-6A)...but I can't understand the pitch requirement.
Cheers,
Brad
RV6AQB...
-----Original Message-----
From: mitchf(at)netscape.com [mailto:mitchf(at)netscape.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's and IFR
- snip -
Sadly, my bazillion hour IFR instructor said I *need* to get a dual axis
auto-pilot, I was hoping to get by with a Navaid but I guess not ($$$).
Guess I'll start looking at the S-TEC System 30.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin" <6430(at)axion.net> |
| Subject: | Smoke...lots of it |
Oh boy....I did the smoke test and what a cloud !
My throat is still burning.
I fried the ground wire from master to ground bus and cooked the diode
across the battery contactor.....what a stink....
I always felt that electrics was a black science.....I think I may have had
polarity wrong on my test battery........
Good thing all switches were off and no radios in yet, but strangely, the
clock ran and kept running after pulling power off.
Austin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 7/16/01 9:03:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
sarg314(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< I spotted an ad in Sport Aviation for a carbon monoxide detector made
by CO Guardian. See http://www.coguardian.com
I can't find them referenced in the archives: perhaps they're new.
They have a few panel mount models that look like real airplane
instruments - and cost like them too. They're in the neighborhood of
$300.00. The web page refers to a few "magazine articles" about the
product, but they are actually just new product announcements, not
product evaluations. Magazines will print almost any new product
announcement they get, so there's not much distinction there.
Does anyone have any first hand information about these products? >>
I have the CO-Star detector in my plane. It's about the size of a pack of
cigarettes and clips to the side panel. About $50 at most pilot supplies
outlets.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Thread-Topic: RV-List: RV-8 Wing skin
Thread-Index: AcEO/t12dCOzjsolTReauKT//U3duQAADbqA
| From: | "Todd Wenzel" <TWenzel(at)hsdinc.com> |
I just reviewed the Orndorff wing tape (#2) last night and there is no
mention of trimming the skin to fit the inboard aileron bracket. I have
an 8AQB and am currently working on the right wing (it happened to be
closest to work on). I haven't clecoed the bottom outboard skin on yet,
but I have laid it on top as a cover and have not noticed the obvious
overlap you mention. Another listers comments about the left and right
being mislabled could be possible - but I think (no plans in front of
me) that the smaller bracket with three rivets would on the wrong side
and/or upside down if you were using the wrong bracket - check its
orientation against the drawing. IMHO, If the orientation is good then I
wouldn't be too concerned about trimming the skin to fit. It's pretty
hard to place the inboard aileron bracket in the wrong place...
Todd Wenzel
RV-8AQB - wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com |
| Subject: | Alternate static source |
07/17/2001 03:43:58 PM
Does anyone have an alternate static source designed into their system?
If so, what are you using for a selector valve? I know the requirements
are that one port must be shut off while the other port is open.
Thx,
- Jim Andrews
RV-8A ( final assembly at the airport )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
Can some -6(A) folks out there tell me what the
typical stops are for flap settings? 10 degrees, 25
degrees, 40 degrees, etc?
====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Getting Close
________________________________________________________________________________
Thread-Topic: RV-List: RV's and IFR
Thread-Index: AcEPAhBCQM/2KQz9QD+tEOIT69CciQAAP/hw
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
Speaking of altitude hold....
Hey Boyd, how's that EZ-trim altitude hold working for you? Could you
give us some detailed info?
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 178 hours
worn brakes, worn tires, need oil change, annual due in Aug.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Benson, Bradley [mailto:bbenson(at)trane.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 3:15 PM
> To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: RE: RV-List: RV's and IFR
>
>
>
>
> Why do you need a dual axis autopilot? Sure, they're nice,
> and I can see
> the need for a wing leveler (and will be putting a Navaid AP in my
> -6A)...but I can't understand the pitch requirement.
>
> Cheers,
> Brad
> RV6AQB...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mitchf(at)netscape.com [mailto:mitchf(at)netscape.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 2:27 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's and IFR
>
> - snip -
> Sadly, my bazillion hour IFR instructor said I *need* to get
> a dual axis
> auto-pilot, I was hoping to get by with a Navaid but I guess
> not ($$$).
> Guess I'll start looking at the S-TEC System 30.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Scotchbrite wheel too big for grinder? |
In a message dated 7/17/01 10:20:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
waalkes(at)netnitco.net writes:
<< I just got a grinder to spin the 6x1 Scotchbrite wheel that I got from
> > Avery. It's a Delta model that came with 3/4 inch wheels. The 1" wheel
> > will go on the arbor, but I can only get a few threads of the nut on
there.
> > The side cover doesn't fit back over the wheel either.
> >
> > Anyway, I've heard about wheels exploding and so on... I'd rather have
> > everything on there correctly. Has anyone else had this problem? >>
The exploding issue is ONLY related to stone grinding wheels when they are
used for grinding aluminum. Scotchbrite wheels will not explode.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
Hi John,
I'll play devils advocate and ask REALLY how much IFR work do you plan to do?
We all know the lighter your RV is the better it flies. All those expensive radios
and autopilots (I personally wouldn't fly in the clouds without one) and
extra certifications could certainly be used for extra gas money, a long trip,
= a constant speed prop, or the occasional hotel room if you get stuck in the
soup somewhere.
None of Van's aircraft are equipped and they seem to get around the country on
schedule ok. I flew from LA to the Bahamas last May and was able to work around
the systems (RV's sure can cover some ground) without losing any time. (OK,
there was a morning when we left 2 hrs later than planned due to low vis). My
father just got back (this morning...YEA, my RV is back and I can go flying again)
from flying across the country to Delaware (over 3 weeks) and didn't get
held up anywhere. Do you REALLY need to be anywhere that requires you to fly
in the clouds???
Anyway, just another point of view to think about. It comes down to what you really
want your airplane to do. Your milage may vary. (and maybe I'm trying to
rationalize not being able to afford all those radios :-)
Laird
RV-6 (with vacuum gyros and one gps/comm) 280 hrs
0-360/Hartzell
SoCal
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Tue, Jul 17, 2001 12:36 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV's and IFR
Folks:
I've read through the archives on this topic, and I'm fairly satisfied that
I know the answer to this, but before I send off my order form for an RV-7A
QB, I just want to give it one more shot, since I do plan on this plane
fulfilling many roles. There will be the occasion when I will need to fly
light to medium IFR one cross countries and want to hear from anyone who
might recommend not using the RV for that application. I flew the
demonstrator (and the 9) at Van's last month and found it to be exceptional.
Other than not having 4 seats, it is the plane for me. People are clearly
using it for IFR and recommending a wing leveler for those times it gets
busy. So.... if anyone has any final thoughts, please let me know. Much
appreciated.
John Jessen
Lexington, MA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
It is not possible to mix the left and right inboard aileron bracket on the
RV-8. The holes are prepunched.
I have to trim about 1/64" so it's only very slight. This is the case with
both my wings. I suppose you could force it down but wouldn't be as nice. As
I mentioned before, other RV-8's I have seen also have this area trimmed.
You have to look very close since it's so little. In any case, it's nothing
to worry about - besides, it's under the wing so nobody will notice.
BE AWARE: Do not rivet this bracket on before you rivet the top skins.
Otherwise you will have to use a pop-rivet in one of the trailing edge holes
on the top skin. I have seen this on quite a few RV's.
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Todd Wenzel
Sent: July 17, 2001 4:39 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-8 Wing skin
I just reviewed the Orndorff wing tape (#2) last night and there is no
mention of trimming the skin to fit the inboard aileron bracket. I have
an 8AQB and am currently working on the right wing (it happened to be
closest to work on). I haven't clecoed the bottom outboard skin on yet,
but I have laid it on top as a cover and have not noticed the obvious
overlap you mention. Another listers comments about the left and right
being mislabled could be possible - but I think (no plans in front of
me) that the smaller bracket with three rivets would on the wrong side
and/or upside down if you were using the wrong bracket - check its
orientation against the drawing. IMHO, If the orientation is good then I
wouldn't be too concerned about trimming the skin to fit. It's pretty
hard to place the inboard aileron bracket in the wrong place...
Todd Wenzel
RV-8AQB - wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate static source |
> Does anyone have an alternate static source designed into their system?
>
> If so, what are you using for a selector valve? I know the requirements
> are that one port must be shut off while the other port is open.
I did some hazy research on this awhile back and found that some
manufactures didn't close off the main ports when alternate static air is
selected. There are different system designs. This prompted me to do the
simplest thing and "T" off the main line and install a 1/4" fuel valve with
a pretty red handle. It grabbs air from the cabin when opened. I made a
small panel for this valve on the left side of the fuselage where the static
line runs. I'll be making a nice little placard to indicate it's use.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mitchf(at)netscape.com (Mitchell Faatz) |
| Subject: | Re: RV's and IFR |
RV's are very sporty in pitch as well as roll. Add a little turbulence
and try to fly hands-off for a little bit without deviating from your
altitude. I'm pretty early on in my IFR instruction, and I've already
had ATC point out that I had deviated 150' from my assigned altitude
(this in a trimmed 172). You almost *never* fly what was given to you
in your clearance, so sometimes you're really going to want to stop
flying the plane for a minute to look at a map without worrying about
altitude and heading. For people that don't fly IFR, you would be
*amazed* at how quickly things change. You can have the plane totally
trimmed out and settled, but you reach over to change the frequency or
look down at a map for FIVE seconds and you're 20 degrees off to the
right and climbing. It's truely amazing.
I'm certainly not planning heavy IFR in my RV, but if I get stuck in
some moderate to heavy turbulence and need to read a chart to get my
bearing I'll have that option. My IFR instructor has a Maule which is
about as pitch "sporty" as the RV, and he said "trim your gadgets
somewhere else if you need to, but *get* the dual-axis autopilot!" Up
to this point I had kept hoping that the Navaid would suffice but in the
back of my mind I thought that maybe it wouldn't. Add to that the fact
that Navaid specifically does *not* recommend IFR flight with their
product. Now granted, I'll have to hold up about 18 liquor stores to
get the money for one... Anybody got a ski mask I can borrow?
Mitch Faatz San Mateo, CA RV-6A Finish Kit
Benson, Bradley wrote:
>
>
>Why do you need a dual axis autopilot? Sure, they're nice, and I can see
>the need for a wing leveler (and will be putting a Navaid AP in my
>-6A)...but I can't understand the pitch requirement.
>
>Cheers,
>Brad
>RV6AQB...
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mitchf(at)netscape.com [mailto:mitchf(at)netscape.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 2:27 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's and IFR
>
> - snip -
>Sadly, my bazillion hour IFR instructor said I *need* to get a dual axis
>auto-pilot, I was hoping to get by with a Navaid but I guess not ($$$).
> Guess I'll start looking at the S-TEC System 30.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Fire Extinguisher Placement |
Jim--
I have mixed thoughts on this. Theoretically, the fire extinguisher is
another potential failure point. If your whole IN FLIGHT FIRE procedure
becomes based on the use of Halon, and for some reason the bottle
doesn't squirt, then you have to start a new fire procedure, all over
again. If you go thru the basic, time tested light plane procedures,
then you have the Halon as back-up.
However, if I had a Halon bottle installed......
Boyd.
Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com wrote:
>
>
> >Maybe you just worded it wrongly, but slowing down your glide speed from
> >the optimum at "L/D max" will DECREASE your glide path (distance). Your
> >AOA will be higher and with it, increased drag and your sink rate will
> >increase, losing valuable altitude for the rest of your glide, after the
> >fire is (hopefully) out. Also, slowing down too much can actually
> >increase the flames and subsequent damage. Some pilots have put out
> >fires by speeding up, like blowing out a match. The rush of air keeps
> >the flames and heat transfer suppressed.
>
> Boyd,
>
> Thanks! Your absolutely correct regarding the throttle. I will amend my
> checklist.
>
> I understand the significance of keeping the bird at L/D max to keep from
> burning up to much altitude ( no pun intended ) but I'm a little fuzzy on
> the whole prospect of increasing airspeed while your trying to extinguish
> the fire. I understand that you can pull the fire up into the carb and
> sometimes you can snuff it out with enough air but if your going to try and
> extinguish it by halon wouldn't you want the least amount of air to compete
> with for the few seconds that your trying to put the fire out?
>
> - Jim Andrews
> RV-8A ( at the airport )
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV's and IFR |
You don't NEED an autopilot to fly IFR. Look in the AIM/FAR--it's not
included in the Minimum Equipment List.
In an experimental aircraft use can use the Navaid in IMC conditions, if
you so choose. It depends on how much you trust it!
Personally, however, I would not fly solo IFR without a dual axis
autopilot in the RV-6. I've got my Navaid and the EZTrim altitude hold.
The STec 30 would be better, probably.....
Boyd.
Mitchell Faatz wrote:
>
>
> John Jessen wrote:
>
> >
> >...There will be the occasion when I will need to fly
> >light to medium IFR one cross countries and want to hear
> >
> I have struggled with this since I started building. I'm on the
> finishing kit now, and currently in the process of getting my IFR
> rating. I was unsure of how much IFR I would really be flying in my RV
> to justify the cost, but after flying some approaches and learning the
> system I think I might use it enough to justify it. What pushed me over
> the edge was the realization that just being able to use my own plane to
> keep IFR current without putting up with the club rental crap would be
> golden. I'm building my panel with a Garmin 430 and a remote CDI, and a
> Narco Nav122D (CDI with built-in Nav receiver). Between these two I'll
> be able to shoot the majority of the approaches in the country. Sadly,
> my bazillion hour IFR instructor said I *need* to get a dual axis
> auto-pilot, I was hoping to get by with a Navaid but I guess not ($$$).
> Guess I'll start looking at the S-TEC System 30.
>
> So I can't help you with stories of IFR I've flown in an RV, but I can
> share some of my thought process. How come the market is so crappy now
> that I need to buy big ticket avionics? ;)
>
> Mitch Faatz San Mateo, CA RV-6A Finish Kit
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AV8TURDON(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Degrees |
It's my experience that 10-15-20 degrees of flaps are lift flaps. 25 to 40
are drag flaps and used for landing only.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BELTEDAIR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV's and IFR |
We would like to add something to this also, To a plane IFR equipped are you
never going to do some mild aerobatic manuever? Banging a civilian instrument
that can not be caged then putting YOUR life on the line for the next
approach. Leave the airplane as intended or don't do ANY acro.
Jess Meyers
Belted Air Power
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flap Degrees |
Paul,
I think there's quite a bit in the archives on this, but the consensus is
that you don't need markings, and that that many settings are unnecessary in
an RV. Once flying I quickly realized that the flaps don't do as much as
they do on a Cessna, and that you really only need two positions: half and
full. You will quickly learn to just glance at 'em to judge the two
postions. Jeff Ludwig put a piece of striping tape on the inside of his
aileron to mark half and full... a good idea I will do when I get around to
it.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, N558RL, 70 hrs., plane stuck at Arlington due to bad weather,
retrieval mission this evening
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
> Can some -6(A) folks out there tell me what the
> typical stops are for flap settings? 10 degrees, 25
> degrees, 40 degrees, etc?
>
> ====
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A 197AB Arizona
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> Getting Close
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com> |
| Subject: | Alternate static source |
I've put in a simple brass valve that I got at the small pipe department at
Home Depot. It connects directly inline with my primary source under the
left side of the panel (behind and under the panel... I coppied the system
almost exactly like it is in my Piper Archer). The other part of the valve
(which has three ports) just is open to cockpit air (just like my Archer).
The brass valve requires one full turn to open the secondary line where as
the Archer does this with a 90 degree turn of a similar valve. The system
works great, the only difficult part was getting the tubing to connect to
the little valve which is set up for pipe fittings so I had to screw a small
pipe fitting-to-barb fitting so the tubing could be put over the barbs.
jim
Tampa
FWF 6a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 4:44 PM
Subject: RV-List: Alternate static source
Does anyone have an alternate static source designed into their system?
If so, what are you using for a selector valve? I know the requirements
are that one port must be shut off while the other port is open.
Thx,
- Jim Andrews
RV-8A ( final assembly at the airport )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV's and IFR/dual axis autopilot |
A member of our Minnesota RV Wing (not on the list) currently flies a RV-6
IFR. He traded his Navaid for a S-Tec System 20. He is just starting a
RV-7 and plans to put in a System 30 dual axis autopilot. I will probably
end up with a System 30 in my RV-8. The logic goes something like this:
It's not a very good idea to fly such a responsive airplane at night without
gyros. OK, since we are going to install gyros, why not go full IFR. If
you are full IFR, you need an autopilot.
Steve Johnson
RV-8
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mitchell Faatz" <mitchf(at)netscape.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's and IFR
>
> RV's are very sporty in pitch as well as roll. Add a little turbulence
> and try to fly hands-off for a little bit without deviating from your
> altitude. I'm pretty early on in my IFR instruction, and I've already
> had ATC point out that I had deviated 150' from my assigned altitude
> (this in a trimmed 172). You almost *never* fly what was given to you
> in your clearance, so sometimes you're really going to want to stop
> flying the plane for a minute to look at a map without worrying about
> altitude and heading. For people that don't fly IFR, you would be
> *amazed* at how quickly things change. You can have the plane totally
> trimmed out and settled, but you reach over to change the frequency or
> look down at a map for FIVE seconds and you're 20 degrees off to the
> right and climbing. It's truely amazing.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate static source |
Randall Henderson uses a pretty simple alternate static source on his
system. You can see it here.
http://www.edt.com/homewing/rhproject/cabinlts.html
You'll have to send him an email for details, but it looks to me like he
just used a fuel drain type of fitting T'd into the static line. Easy to
get to and gets the job done.
Another reason why his plane wins awards.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
> > Does anyone have an alternate static source designed into their system?
> >
> > If so, what are you using for a selector valve? I know the requirements
> > are that one port must be shut off while the other port is open.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV's and IFR/EZTrim |
The initial testing demonstrated that the EZTrim held altitude and
"turned on" for adjustment at 25' increments, as advertised.
I'll need more time for more thorough check-out. I'm currently down,
replacing my Barry mounts for Lord mounts. The bottom rear Barry
muffins are collapsing at 313 hrs., not good. Maybe I need to rethink
my idea of a shallow turn as being 60 deg. angle of bank/3 G? Sure is
fun, tho.
Boyd.
Bob Japundza wrote:
>
>
> Speaking of altitude hold....
>
> Hey Boyd, how's that EZ-trim altitude hold working for you? Could you
> give us some detailed info?
>
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 178 hours
> worn brakes, worn tires, need oil change, annual due in Aug.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
I have seen several RV's with the targa strip. It
actually looks like it should be part of the airplane.
For the life of me, I could not get the split between
the canopy and the rear window even. Even with having
done two, it still didn't come out well. I went the
targa strip route. It wasn't that much work, and
looks very nice. I made mine from fiberglass. I just
covered the rear window with wax paper and stretched
the cloth over the split after roughing up the plexi.
Of course I masked it off where I didn't want epoxy.
3 layers, sanding and filling and it fits perfectly.
When it's painted, it will look like part of the
design, will keep water out, and will cover up my non
uniform gap between the two pieces! Not a bad trade
off for 3 hours of work.
====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Getting Close
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Marking Wiring |
I didn't do this, but wish I had. You can buy clear
shrink tube. Make some labels of wires on a laser
printer, cut and put the clear shrink tube over the
wire. They look really nice, and you don't have to
worry about them coming off.
====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Getting Close
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com> |
Hi Mitch,
I'm not planning heavy IFR in my -6A when it is done, but I'm sure it will
get at least some actual on a semi-regular basis if for nothing else than
going through a layer. I've got a couple hundred hours of IMC X/C in both
singles and twins (spam cans all), but can't speak to IMC in an RV6A since
mine is still in large pieces :-(. Still, the RV6s don't have negative
pitch stability, so it would seem that trim is the deal.
Cheers,
Brad
RV6AQB...
-----Original Message-----
From: mitchf(at)netscape.com [mailto:mitchf(at)netscape.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's and IFR
RV's are very sporty in pitch as well as roll. Add a little turbulence
and try to fly hands-off for a little bit without deviating from your
altitude. I'm pretty early on in my IFR instruction, and I've already
had ATC point out that I had deviated 150' from my assigned altitude
(this in a trimmed 172). You almost *never* fly what was given to you
in your clearance, so sometimes you're really going to want to stop
flying the plane for a minute to look at a map without worrying about
altitude and heading. For people that don't fly IFR, you would be
*amazed* at how quickly things change. You can have the plane totally
trimmed out and settled, but you reach over to change the frequency or
look down at a map for FIVE seconds and you're 20 degrees off to the
right and climbing. It's truely amazing.
I'm certainly not planning heavy IFR in my RV, but if I get stuck in
some moderate to heavy turbulence and need to read a chart to get my
bearing I'll have that option. My IFR instructor has a Maule which is
about as pitch "sporty" as the RV, and he said "trim your gadgets
somewhere else if you need to, but *get* the dual-axis autopilot!" Up
to this point I had kept hoping that the Navaid would suffice but in the
back of my mind I thought that maybe it wouldn't. Add to that the fact
that Navaid specifically does *not* recommend IFR flight with their
product. Now granted, I'll have to hold up about 18 liquor stores to
get the money for one... Anybody got a ski mask I can borrow?
Mitch Faatz San Mateo, CA RV-6A Finish Kit
Benson, Bradley wrote:
>
>
>Why do you need a dual axis autopilot? Sure, they're nice, and I can see
>the need for a wing leveler (and will be putting a Navaid AP in my
>-6A)...but I can't understand the pitch requirement.
>
>Cheers,
>Brad
>RV6AQB...
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mitchf(at)netscape.com [mailto:mitchf(at)netscape.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 2:27 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's and IFR
>
> - snip -
>Sadly, my bazillion hour IFR instructor said I *need* to get a dual axis
>auto-pilot, I was hoping to get by with a Navaid but I guess not ($$$).
> Guess I'll start looking at the S-TEC System 30.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
Hi Paul,
I use somewhere around 10 for takeoff of my -6. Seems to get in the air a little
sooner and lightens up the tail. Everything else is 0 or full. I don't have
any markings on the flap, and that doesn't seem to be a problem.
Advise worth what you paid for it.
Laird
RV-6 SoCal
Can some -6(A) folks out there tell me what the
typical stops are for flap settings? 10 degrees, 25
degrees, 40 degrees, etc?
====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Getting Close
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Marking Wiring |
rick
i had a transponder and encoder wired from gulf coast avionics. the way they
labled the wires was to write on the heat shrink, then shrink it on. it
shrinks evenly and remains legable. i used to use the wire tape markers, but
they fade out and rub off. i have tried the heat shrink method and it works
llike a charm.
scott
tampa
rv6a finishing wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Smoke...lots of it |
What a coincedence Austin, the same thing happened to me, did you buy your
contactors from B&C? One of the diodes on my master contactor was installed
backwards. I also burned the shnot out of my hand trying to pull the ground
wire out. Check out those diodes, I bet you have the same problem
Kevin 9A guy
flying now, no smoke
> Oh boy....I did the smoke test and what a cloud !
> My throat is still burning.
> I fried the ground wire from master to ground bus and cooked the diode
> across the battery contactor.....what a stink....
> I always felt that electrics was a black science.....I think I may have had
> polarity wrong on my test battery........
> Good thing all switches were off and no radios in yet, but strangely, the
> clock ran and kept running after pulling power off.
> Austin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Scotchbrite wheel too big for grinder? |
i always wondered about exploding grinding wheels while grinding aluminum.
i've heard of this before, but have almost completed my rv, using the
grinding wheel on a daily bases on aluminum, and never had a problem. it is a
quick way to get the aluminum into the basic shape, and use a scotch brite
wheel to do the finish work.
not to say it want explode, but i never seen it happen.
scott
tampa
rv6a finishing wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV's and IFR |
In a message dated 7/17/01 2:21:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Owens(at)aerovironment.com writes:
<< I'll play devils advocate and ask REALLY how much IFR work do you plan to
do?
We all know the lighter your RV is the better it flies. All those expensive
radios and autopilots (I personally wouldn't fly in the clouds without one)
and extra certifications could certainly be used for extra gas money, a long
trip, = a constant speed prop, or the occasional hotel room if you get stuck
in the soup somewhere. >>
Maybe the good Doctor Leo Davies down in OZ could pipe up on this issue. My
understanding is that he regularly flies IFR in his RV-6A. Well, Leo?
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | eCharts <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | about chart pricing |
A few words about chart pricing: There have been quite a few posts over the
past few days about "where to get the cheapest charts". Let me chime in.
NO, we are not the cheapest guys on the net, nor do I want to be. (nor are we
even close to the most expensive). I don't think simply "cheap" is what most
pilots are looking for. Instead, I prefer to grow a business by providing
extraordinary customer service and most timely delivery possible, and we've
spent many nights in the shipping room packing revisions till 2:00 in the
morning proving it.
Why, because the FAA only gives its dealers a couple days from the time they
release a new edition until the old one becomes obsolete and illegal. Its our
responsibility to make sure our subscribers get those new editions BEFORE the
old ones go obsolete, not a few days after because the packers go home at 5:00
and we can't afford the overtime.
And why again? Because a lot of our chart orders are from people planning a
trip, usually within the next couple days. They can't wait until after they
leave for their orders to arrive, and they typically need them as soon as
possible for planning. Chart orders always go out immediately, and always from
inventory in stock, even if it means nights and weekends to save those extra
couple of days.
So what do you want; to save .20 cents on a Sectional, or a fast and dependable
source for what you need. I'm betting on the latter. And, I want to thank all
of those who have agreed by putting their faith in us in the past and to those
who will in the future.
Thank you,
Andy Gold
eCharts
http://www.eCharts.cc
Builder's Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com
RV-6A N-5060
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
Michel from London, Ontario (also a list memeber) regularly flies his RV-3
IFR. I'm not sure for how many years but I think it has been a while. He's
is now building an RV-8.
Do you have comments on flying IFR with an RV Michel?
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Vanremog(at)aol.com
Sent: July 17, 2001 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's and IFR
In a message dated 7/17/01 2:21:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Owens(at)aerovironment.com writes:
<< I'll play devils advocate and ask REALLY how much IFR work do you plan to
do?
We all know the lighter your RV is the better it flies. All those
expensive
radios and autopilots (I personally wouldn't fly in the clouds without one)
and extra certifications could certainly be used for extra gas money, a long
trip, = a constant speed prop, or the occasional hotel room if you get stuck
in the soup somewhere. >>
Maybe the good Doctor Leo Davies down in OZ could pipe up on this issue. My
understanding is that he regularly flies IFR in his RV-6A. Well, Leo?
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Degrees |
One reason you might want to mark the flaps would be to help with landing
consistency. My buddy here was having difficulty consistency landing his -6
precisely. He marked the flaps with 2 different markings (10 and 25 deg if
I'm remembering correctly) and immediately improved his consistency. It
seems his method of flap deployment was off enough each time to change how
the plane flew on final.
Probably not a big deal after several hundred hours in the builders own
plane but it might help when learning to fly the thing initially.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
> Can some -6(A) folks out there tell me what the
> typical stops are for flap settings? 10 degrees, 25
> degrees, 40 degrees, etc?
>
>
> ====
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A 197AB Arizona
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> Getting Close
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Rowles <lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au> |
| Subject: | Scotchbright Wheels. |
Hello to all,
A while back if my memory serves me right, I saw on the list some one
advertising "Scatchbright Wheels" that were quite a bit larger than the
ones we are all using. I think they were wider and had a large arbor hole
so would require some work to get them operational for our purposes. Does
any body have any information on these wheels? Thank you.
Les Rowles.
Traralgon Australia.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Wing skin |
-----Original Message-----
From: Tripp Myrick <tmyrick(at)wans.net>
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Wing skin
>Listers,
>I am having a problem mounting the inboard aileron bracket on my left
>RV-8 wing. The bottom outboard skin (W-805) is interfering with the
>
>Tripp Myrick
>N138RV (reserved)
Tripp: There is interferance between the inboard aileron bracket and the
lower wing skin as received. The trimming can be simple or more complex
depending on how you wish to deal with the extruded angle portion of the
bracket and how tight you want the skin to fit to the blade of the bracket.
As far as the skin rivet mentioned in another post, if you choose to rivet
the bottom skins on first (perhaps that is not a choice with the quickbuild,
I don't know) then, since the factory thoughtfully placed a top skin/spar
rivet hole directly over the bracket, you may use a pull stem rivet of some
sort or you can remove a portion of the bracket to permit a hard rivet to be
used. There are no structural implications in trimming the lower skin and
the metal remaining on the bracket with the top trimmed is stronger than the
rivets holding the bracket to the spar.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate static source |
> Does anyone have an alternate static source designed into their system?
I have a splice in the static line just under the panel. This line runs
from the ports on the aft fuse to the instruments. Alternate source is to
disconnect the splice. The tubing at that point is silicone tubing, which
goes on and off the splice nicely.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Degrees |
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Flap Degrees
>Can some -6(A) folks out there tell me what the
>typical stops are for flap settings? 10 degrees, 25
>degrees, 40 degrees, etc?
Paul: If you are using electric flaps you might consider waiting until you
flight test to set stopping points. On my -4 my manual flap stops only
provide a nominal 20 degrees and max (as much as I could get). The 20
setting is essentially useless to me. It is too much for takeoff and not
needed for landing. Having said that, I suppose if I were trying to get off
a soft field or out of tall grass the 20 might be helpful. Flight testing
will tell you what setting will provide the most help on takeoff and then if
you felt the need for an intermediate drag setting you could test for that
also, or just be arbitrary about it. My guess is that 10-12 degrees would
work best for takeoff and climb. If you are using mechanical flaps, the
mechanism may limit the placement of the stops.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: about chart pricing |
Amen. I've been using eCharts a fair amount and Andy's service is exactly as
he describes.
Randy Lervold
July 12, 2001 - July 17, 2001
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ld