RV-Archive.digest.vol-le
July 17, 2001 - July 22, 2001
RV-8, N558RL, 70 hrs, SoCal bound this weekend (with charts from eCharts)
www.rv-8.com
> A few words about chart pricing: There have been quite a few posts over
the
> past few days about "where to get the cheapest charts". Let me chime in.
>
> NO, we are not the cheapest guys on the net, nor do I want to be. (nor are
we
> even close to the most expensive). I don't think simply "cheap" is what
most
> pilots are looking for. Instead, I prefer to grow a business by providing
> extraordinary customer service and most timely delivery possible, and
we've
> spent many nights in the shipping room packing revisions till 2:00 in the
> morning proving it.
>
> Why, because the FAA only gives its dealers a couple days from the time
they
> release a new edition until the old one becomes obsolete and illegal. Its
our
> responsibility to make sure our subscribers get those new editions BEFORE
the
> old ones go obsolete, not a few days after because the packers go home at
5:00
> and we can't afford the overtime.
>
> And why again? Because a lot of our chart orders are from people planning
a
> trip, usually within the next couple days. They can't wait until after
they
> leave for their orders to arrive, and they typically need them as soon as
> possible for planning. Chart orders always go out immediately, and always
from
> inventory in stock, even if it means nights and weekends to save those
extra
> couple of days.
>
> So what do you want; to save .20 cents on a Sectional, or a fast and
dependable
> source for what you need. I'm betting on the latter. And, I want to thank
all
> of those who have agreed by putting their faith in us in the past and to
those
> who will in the future.
>
> Thank you,
> Andy Gold
> eCharts
> http://www.eCharts.cc
>
> Builder's Bookstore
> http://www.buildersbooks.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | NorCal overnight recommendations |
West Coast Listers,
I will be flying from Portland down to SoCal this Saturday to spend the
night with an old friend and catch up. (of course this is just an excuse to
make my first flight down the coast that I've been waiting 4 years to do).
Anyway, I plan to go down direct via the central valley, but then take my
time coming back up the coast. I'd like to find a place to stay in either
the Monterey area or possibly in the wine country. Anyone have any
recommendations on a neat airport/hotel/restaurant stop. Of course they
don't all have to be together. Just looking for something interesting and
enjoyable.
Thanks!
Randy Lervold
RV-8, N558RL
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J D Newsum" <jdnewsum(at)qwest.net> |
| Subject: | DP40 Primer compatibility |
There have been a number of postings on the list where builders have
used a variety of primers such as PPG DP-40 or Super Koropon PRC or
Sterling U-1201/1202 but not to much detail on what was used for the
final finish paint.
Does anyone have experience using PPG DP-40 primer with a different
manufacturers finish paint such as Sherwin Williams Sunfire?
JDN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Scotchbrite wheel exploding |
>
> i always wondered about exploding grinding wheels while grinding aluminum.
It is not just aluminum, but any nonferrous material. When grinding
ferrous metal the metal will abrade away and the wheel will wear down to
clean stone, a safe combination. Brass and aluminum being too soft to
abrade away the stone will pack the grinding wheel and put stress on the
wheel and un-balance it until it reaches the explosive point of destruction.
I watched the reconstructive surgery of a patient who had a home
grinding wheel explode in his face. He suffered horrible injuries and
disfigurement. Use a sanding disc or 1" sanding belt instead. It is
perfectly safe and works wonderfully. The grinding wheel that has been used
to grind nonferrous metal is a time bomb...
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
I have a Tilt Up with a Targa Strip made out of a 3" wide strip of 0.032
2024T3 (I dislike working with fiberglass any more than I can help). It
also hides my somewhat "uneven" cut line as well as perhaps more
importantly - keeps rain out. Just pop rivet it on with the rivets used to
attach rear part of front canopy to forward roll bar.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW
Matthews, NC
Subject: RV-List: Targa Strip
>
> I have seen several RV's with the targa strip. It
> actually looks like it should be part of the airplane.
> For the life of me, I could not get the split between
> the canopy and the rear window even. Even with having
> done two, it still didn't come out well. I went the
> targa strip route. It wasn't that much work, and
> looks very nice. I made mine from fiberglass. I just
> covered the rear window with wax paper and stretched
> the cloth over the split after roughing up the plexi.
> Of course I masked it off where I didn't want epoxy.
> 3 layers, sanding and filling and it fits perfectly.
> When it's painted, it will look like part of the
> design, will keep water out, and will cover up my non
> uniform gap between the two pieces! Not a bad trade
> off for 3 hours of work.
>
>
> ====
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A 197AB Arizona
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> Getting Close
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fwd: fuel pressure |
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Full-name: RVer273sb
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:56:52 EDT
Subject: fuel pressure
Gary,
The latest..........
Installed all clear lines fire wall fwd ie B/P to E/P
E/P to servo and servo to flow divider.
Ran engine and observed large amounts of air and or
fuel vapor in the system. With the B/P on the air disappears.
Of course when the air is observed the fuel pressure runs at
13 to 20 psi.
I removed the B/P from the system and plummed the E/P directly
to the main fuel line. Engine run showed no air, pressure normal.
I have considered what the B/P pressure relief return to the upstream
side of the filter has to do with this. AFP said that if the engine pump
had to suck hard enough to move fuel, the fuel could boil because of
the pressure drop. They were curious and asked me to send in the B/P
for a look see. Of course they had never heard of this happening.
Im still plugging away at this!!!!!!!!!
Stewart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Degrees |
I recall reading what bush pilots do for the best takeoff-flap setting- hold
in full right aileron while lowering flaps until the trailing edges of the
aileron and flap line up on the left wing. After reading this many years
ago, I've nearly always seen it to be accurate no matter what I'm flying...
Scott Jackson'
-6,plumbing,ducting,wiring...
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Lervold <randy@rv-8.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flap Degrees
>
> Paul,
> I think there's quite a bit in the archives on this, but the consensus is
> that you don't need markings, and that that many settings are unnecessary
in
> an RV. Once flying I quickly realized that the flaps don't do as much as
> they do on a Cessna, and that you really only need two positions: half and
> full. You will quickly learn to just glance at 'em to judge the two
> postions. Jeff Ludwig put a piece of striping tape on the inside of his
> aileron to mark half and full... a good idea I will do when I get around
to
> it.
>
> Randy Lervold
> RV-8, N558RL, 70 hrs., plane stuck at Arlington due to bad weather,
> retrieval mission this evening
> www.rv-8.com
> Home Wing VAF
>
>
> > Can some -6(A) folks out there tell me what the
> > typical stops are for flap settings? 10 degrees, 25
> > degrees, 40 degrees, etc?
> >
> > ====
> > Paul Besing
> > RV-6A 197AB Arizona
> > http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> > Getting Close
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Whelen vs Aeroflash wingtip lights |
I liked the idea of the tiny Aeroflash unit as I wanted to install it in a
clear, vertical stab. top fairing where it would have 360 degrees of
visibility without any drag. I was actually picking up the phone to order it
when I really read the spec.'s and couldn't believe how high the current
draw was for one single, not-overly-bright, strobe -10 amps! Had to think
about what all that current was being turned into if not light and surmised
something must be getting awfully warm in the Aeroflash unit somewhere... In
hindsight, I haven't a clue how to make a clear fairing and, besides, the
strobe would have flashed all over the upper wings and windscreen/instrument
panel at night. Back to three strobe system.
Scott Jackson
-piping,ducting,wiring
----- Original Message -----
From: John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 4:05 AM
Subject: RV-List: Question re: Whelen vs Aeroflash wingtip lights
>
> Thanks to all who answered my question about wingtip lights, much
appreciated!
>
> A follow-on question - any comments from the assembled multitudes on the
pros/cons of Whelen and Aeroflash lights? One lister suggested the
Aeroflash lights because they are less expensive...other thoughts?
>
> Semper Fi
> John
> RV-6 (wings...pondering options...)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: about chart pricing |
>
>past few days about "where to get the cheapest charts". Let me chime in.
>
>NO, we are not the cheapest guys on the net, nor do I want to be. (nor are we
>even close to the most expensive). I don't think simply "cheap" is what most
>pilots are looking for. Instead, I prefer to grow a business by providing
>extraordinary customer service and most timely delivery possible, and we've
>spent many nights in the shipping room packing revisions till 2:00 in the
>morning proving it.>
Dear RV-gang,
Andy and his company, Builder's Bookstore and eCharts have been major
contributors to the RV-list since day-One. Andy is responsible for the
famous RVator collection , "20 years of RV-ator". I guess I'm suggesting
that we patronize him whenever possible. When my time comes to install a
fuel flow meter, I'll sure as hell use Matt's if he is still making them.
Which reminds me; Isn't it time for us to give Matt a little $$$help for
his maintenance of this incredible list?
Louis
Louis I. Willig
larywil(at)home.com
RV-4, N180PF, 115 hrs. and climbing fast
I0-360, Hartzell C/S
(610) 668-4964
Penn Valley, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flap Degrees |
> in full right aileron while lowering flaps until the trailing edges of the
> aileron and flap line up on the left wing.
>
> wouldn't that send you voilently corkscrewing through the air in a rv?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Scotchbrite wheel too big for grinder? |
I removed the protective shroud from my 6" Delta grinder and bolted it to
the workbench so the scotchbrite wheel was over the edge. Enabled using all
sides of the wheel-top,front, bottom.
By the way, for the first few days after I began building I finished the day
with a sore throat. Eventually realized it was the almost invisible aluminum
dust produced by the scotchbrite wheel. Screwed a one-gallon, liquid,
laundry-detergent jug ( the orange-red one)with the bottom cut away upside
down to the side of the workbench covering the bottom 1/4 of the wheel. The
nozzle from the ShopVac is a press fit into the original pour spout. No more
sore throat. I'll spend years wondering what all that highly-reactive metal
dust is doing in my lungs....
Scott Jackson
-6, piping, ducting,wiring
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Tanner <gtanner(at)bendcable.com>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 8:59 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Scotchbrite wheel too big for grinder?
>
> I took an electric motor and added an extended arbor and mounted it on a
> tool stand (like a jointer). I have all kinds of room around the deburr
> wheel.
>
> Greg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Knoll
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 8:51 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Scotchbrite wheel too big for grinder?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca> |
| Subject: | Alternate static source |
Subject: RV-List: Alternate static source
Does anyone have an alternate static source designed into their system?
If so, what are you using for a selector valve? I know the requirements
are that one port must be shut off while the other port is open.
Thx,
- Jim Andrews
Hi Jim
- my copy of the FAR's is old and things may have changed - but the way I
read it a selector valve that isolates the regular and alternate source is
only required on a pressurized aircraft.
On my 6A I have a Curtis CCA 1550 (locking type) fuel quick drain valve
"Teed" into the static line as my alternate static source.
I ran my static line under the left armrest so mounted the quick drain there
as well to help keep the inst. panel uncluttered.
George McNutt
Langley B.C. - cowling, filling pinholes.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: fuel pressure |
Has the engine-driven boost pump got an airleak anywhere that would allow it
to suck in air as well as fuel?
----- Original Message -----
From: <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 5:58 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fwd: fuel pressure
>
>
> From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
> Full-name: RVer273sb
> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:56:52 EDT
> Subject: fuel pressure
> To: beeb(at)teleport.com
>
> Gary,
> The latest..........
> Installed all clear lines fire wall fwd ie B/P to E/P
> E/P to servo and servo to flow divider.
> Ran engine and observed large amounts of air and or
> fuel vapor in the system. With the B/P on the air disappears.
> Of course when the air is observed the fuel pressure runs at
> 13 to 20 psi.
> I removed the B/P from the system and plummed the E/P directly
> to the main fuel line. Engine run showed no air, pressure normal.
> I have considered what the B/P pressure relief return to the upstream
> side of the filter has to do with this. AFP said that if the engine pump
> had to suck hard enough to move fuel, the fuel could boil because of
> the pressure drop. They were curious and asked me to send in the B/P
> for a look see. Of course they had never heard of this happening.
> Im still plugging away at this!!!!!!!!!
> Stewart
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James R. Paynter" <jpaynter(at)cyberg8t.com> |
| Subject: | RV Near Lexington |
Listers,
Are there any RV-9As or RV-6s under construction (or flying) in the
greater Lexington, KY area? I will be visiting my parents in Cynthiana,
KY for a week beginning July 27 and I would like to show my Dad one of
these aircraft if possible. Please reply off list and by July 20
(leaving for Osh on the 21st).
Thanks in advance,
Jim Paynter/Deb Rothe
RV-9A empennage almost finished
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Degrees |
Helloooo? Isn't takeoff flap used for taking off?
----- Original Message -----
From: <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flap Degrees
>
>
> > in full right aileron while lowering flaps until the trailing edges of
the
> > aileron and flap line up on the left wing.
> >
> > wouldn't that send you voilently corkscrewing through the air in a rv?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: fuel pressure |
Has the engine-driven boost pump got an airleak anywhere that would allow it
to suck in air as well as fuel?
----- Original Message -----
From: <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 5:58 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fwd: fuel pressure
>
>
> From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
> Full-name: RVer273sb
> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:56:52 EDT
> Subject: fuel pressure
> To: beeb(at)teleport.com
>
> Gary,
> The latest..........
> Installed all clear lines fire wall fwd ie B/P to E/P
> E/P to servo and servo to flow divider.
> Ran engine and observed large amounts of air and or
> fuel vapor in the system. With the B/P on the air disappears.
> Of course when the air is observed the fuel pressure runs at
> 13 to 20 psi.
> I removed the B/P from the system and plummed the E/P directly
> to the main fuel line. Engine run showed no air, pressure normal.
> I have considered what the B/P pressure relief return to the upstream
> side of the filter has to do with this. AFP said that if the engine pump
> had to suck hard enough to move fuel, the fuel could boil because of
> the pressure drop. They were curious and asked me to send in the B/P
> for a look see. Of course they had never heard of this happening.
> Im still plugging away at this!!!!!!!!!
> Stewart
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: fuel pressure |
Has the engine-driven boost pump got an airleak anywhere that would allow it
to suck in air as well as fuel?
----- Original Message -----
From: <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 5:58 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fwd: fuel pressure
>
>
> From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
> Full-name: RVer273sb
> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:56:52 EDT
> Subject: fuel pressure
> To: beeb(at)teleport.com
>
> Gary,
> The latest..........
> Installed all clear lines fire wall fwd ie B/P to E/P
> E/P to servo and servo to flow divider.
> Ran engine and observed large amounts of air and or
> fuel vapor in the system. With the B/P on the air disappears.
> Of course when the air is observed the fuel pressure runs at
> 13 to 20 psi.
> I removed the B/P from the system and plummed the E/P directly
> to the main fuel line. Engine run showed no air, pressure normal.
> I have considered what the B/P pressure relief return to the upstream
> side of the filter has to do with this. AFP said that if the engine pump
> had to suck hard enough to move fuel, the fuel could boil because of
> the pressure drop. They were curious and asked me to send in the B/P
> for a look see. Of course they had never heard of this happening.
> Im still plugging away at this!!!!!!!!!
> Stewart
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: fuel pressure |
Has the engine-driven boost pump got an airleak anywhere that would allow it
to suck in air as well as fuel?
----- Original Message -----
From: <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 5:58 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fwd: fuel pressure
>
>
> From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
> Full-name: RVer273sb
> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:56:52 EDT
> Subject: fuel pressure
> To: beeb(at)teleport.com
>
> Gary,
> The latest..........
> Installed all clear lines fire wall fwd ie B/P to E/P
> E/P to servo and servo to flow divider.
> Ran engine and observed large amounts of air and or
> fuel vapor in the system. With the B/P on the air disappears.
> Of course when the air is observed the fuel pressure runs at
> 13 to 20 psi.
> I removed the B/P from the system and plummed the E/P directly
> to the main fuel line. Engine run showed no air, pressure normal.
> I have considered what the B/P pressure relief return to the upstream
> side of the filter has to do with this. AFP said that if the engine pump
> had to suck hard enough to move fuel, the fuel could boil because of
> the pressure drop. They were curious and asked me to send in the B/P
> for a look see. Of course they had never heard of this happening.
> Im still plugging away at this!!!!!!!!!
> Stewart
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 N154PK Flies! |
the oil temp went to 120 during the climb
which was OK but during the manuvers it went back down.
>
>Is this C or F? Mine runs around 200-210F during the warm months.
This is in F. The gauge range starts at 120f, the needle moved to 120 after
a few minutes of flight but went right back down during the decsent.
I'm going to check the part numbers to make sure the sender and gauge match.
I don't know what else it could be.
Pat P
N154PK test flying!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Lift Cylinder for RV-4 canopy |
I'm looking for a good canopy lift for my RV-4. I know there has been some
builders who managed to use a cylinder to lift and hold the canopy but I
couldn't find any info in the archives.
Pat P
N154PK Flight testing!
Dallas PA
Looking for some nice touches to finish things off.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)velocitus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Degrees |
After playing around with various settings, I made my final flap locking arm
(manual flaps) at 15, 30, and 40 degrees.
15 is perfect for short/soft field takeoff, and also as an intermediate slow
down step before dropping to 30. I usually land with 30, unless I need to
lose altitude in a hurry, then I use 40. 40 doesn't give a *huge* increase
in descent over 30, but it does help. Timing the flare is a little more
critical with 40, but again, not a huge difference over 30.
Ed Bundy - RV6A N427EM 400+ hours
160hp 0320 w/Sensenich 70x78
Eagle, ID
ebundy(at)velocitus.net
> Can some -6(A) folks out there tell me what the
> typical stops are for flap settings? 10 degrees, 25
> degrees, 40 degrees, etc?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: fuel pressure |
Has the engine-driven boost pump got an airleak anywhere that would allow it
to suck in air as well as fuel?
----- Original Message -----
From: <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 5:58 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fwd: fuel pressure
>
>
> From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
> Full-name: RVer273sb
> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:56:52 EDT
> Subject: fuel pressure
> To: beeb(at)teleport.com
>
> Gary,
> The latest..........
> Installed all clear lines fire wall fwd ie B/P to E/P
> E/P to servo and servo to flow divider.
> Ran engine and observed large amounts of air and or
> fuel vapor in the system. With the B/P on the air disappears.
> Of course when the air is observed the fuel pressure runs at
> 13 to 20 psi.
> I removed the B/P from the system and plummed the E/P directly
> to the main fuel line. Engine run showed no air, pressure normal.
> I have considered what the B/P pressure relief return to the upstream
> side of the filter has to do with this. AFP said that if the engine pump
> had to suck hard enough to move fuel, the fuel could boil because of
> the pressure drop. They were curious and asked me to send in the B/P
> for a look see. Of course they had never heard of this happening.
> Im still plugging away at this!!!!!!!!!
> Stewart
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com> |
| Subject: | Scotchbrite wheel exploding |
Please listers,
Lets not let this thread get out of hand. Its headed the wrong way now, and
we need to stop.
We've gotten out of hand about once every 8 days, so we're due... so lets
not let this be it.
jim
tampa
(guy who fixes horible injuries)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Burton
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Scotchbrite wheel exploding
>
> i always wondered about exploding grinding wheels while grinding aluminum.
It is not just aluminum, but any nonferrous material. When grinding
ferrous metal the metal will abrade away and the wheel will wear down to
clean stone, a safe combination. Brass and aluminum being too soft to
abrade away the stone will pack the grinding wheel and put stress on the
wheel and un-balance it until it reaches the explosive point of destruction.
I watched the reconstructive surgery of a patient who had a home
grinding wheel explode in his face. He suffered horrible injuries and
disfigurement. Use a sanding disc or 1" sanding belt instead. It is
perfectly safe and works wonderfully. The grinding wheel that has been used
to grind nonferrous metal is a time bomb...
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Oberst" <jfoberst(at)earthlink.net> |
I am building a Glasair II. I've seen some RVs with a sunshield that opens
up like a window blind under the canopy. Can someone tell me who to contact
to see if I can get one that will fit my airplane.
Jim Oberst
Hot Springs Village, Arkansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ENewton57(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Building Time |
In a message dated 7/17/01 8:26:00 PM Central Daylight Time,
twsurveyor(at)msn.com writes:
<< I have come to the conclusion that I am building a different plane than s ome
of you! I read on some of the builder's web sites that their build ti mes are
really fast. Tail feathers less than 150 hrs., Wings in less than 250 hrs.
and fuselages in less than 350 hrs.! I'm not doubting these guy 's times but man
I'm wondering just what am I doing wrong! I have been in the construction
business for 30 yrs, can read plans just fine and consi der myself to be a slightly
above average builder, on the quality scale ( about a 7 or 7-1/5) based
on other RVs I've seen. Problem is my build tim es are about 2 to 3 times slower
than these guys are reporting. Suggestio ns and comments welcome! >>
Hi Tommy,
I might be one of the guys you are talking about (the numbers sound like
mine). I read Sam Buccannan's web page and picked up some great suggestions
on how to cut some time off your build time. Check out his article here:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/smart.html
My listed times (on the website) are actual build times and do not take into
account all of the head scratching and research done before I go into the
garage.. I am fortunate enough to have a desk job and I'm the boss (so to
speak) so I do spend time at work researching other buuilder's websites and
reading each step I'm about to complete before I step into the garage. I
also like to read the RV-list archives BEFORE I begin each step to see if
there are some mistakes others have made that I can avoid before they happen.
Also, I picture each step in my mind, what tools I will need and what parts I
will need before I step into the garage. I actually take the manual to work
with me and study the manual and the small size drawings, before I step into
the garage. Bottom line is, before I start each step, I have pretty much
thought it out and completed it in my mind before I start. That way, it goes
pretty fast when I actually get in the garage, pick up the tools and parts,
and start working.
I started my RV-6A slow build on March 3, 2000. As of today, my plane is at
the hanger with the wings mounted and the controls are being rigged.
Firewall forward is complete and all electrical wiring including the
instrument panel is complete. The interior is even installed. I hope to be
flying by December of this year. I did not hire any help and most of it was
done by myself. I do get some occassional help from my father-in0law. I am
a first time builder so by no means am I an expert and this advise is worth
exactly what you paid for it.
Good luck and I hope this helps.
Eric Newton - Long Beach, Mississippi
RV-6A N57ME (Wings Mounted - rigging controls)
http://www.ericsrv6a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | kroger sunshade info |
Koger Sunshade for Side-by-Side ModelsConvenient Overhead Retractable
Sunshade for RV-6/6A/7/7A/9A
>
Description
A convenient overhead retractable sunshade for either the tip-up or sliding
canopy.The same bubble canopy that gives such good visibility can get
uncomfortably hot in the direct sun. Developed by RV-6A builder Ralph Koger,
this retractable sunshade makes summer flying much more pleasant! Well made,
durable and light. Flying in our factory aircraft - but you will have to get
your own, because we are not giving ours up!Ordering Information
Retractable shade for side-by-side sliding canopy
Part Number = KOGER SHADE -6 SLIDER
Price = $149.00
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
I don't think he has a website, but here's his contact info:
RALPH KOGER 515-432-5714 RV-6/6A RETRACTABLE SUNSHADES
Jeff Point
Milwaukee WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michel" <michelboucher594(at)home.com> |
You're right Are, I am lurking on the list.
It is difficult for me to make any recommendation.
My experience which is over 10,000hrs of Air Ambulance and Charter flying in
Piper Chieftains and Cheyennes makes me very poor judge of what happens with
low time in IFR or in the aircraft.
Three years ago when the Canadian regulations finally alowed IFR in
homebuilt aircraft I replaced my com with a Nav/Com and installed an ADF,
the pitot heat and Alternate static and got it certified, but I already had
some 700 hrs in the RV by then.
Personnaly I find the little RV a great IFR platform. Yes it is sensitive it
roll and you have to be awake at the wheel. But I find it very stable in
pitch and it will hold altitude very well. Its climbing performance makes it
great for climbing through it on top to the stable air. With the RV I have
never been in solid soup more than 20 minutes.
I use the airplane for business travel and in many occasions the flight is
made safer and easier IFR.
If one feels that a 2 or 3 axis autopilot is a necessity, I would be very
concerned.
IFR is not for everyone it is costly and time consuming to stay current, for
fun you can go everywhere VFR and when you are held over by weather, it is
often your best memories.
But for those who enjoy the chalenge it is fun to takeoff in 400 feet and 1
mile vis and breaking out to the beautifull sunshine on top at 8,000 feet or
catching a glimpse of the runway on final in 800 and 2 in drizzle.
Like VFR, IFR has limits and they must be controlled by the pilot and his
experience.
If you are unsure of your requirement leave the equipement out, fly the
airplane and get confortable with it and modify it later if you feel it is
for you at that time.
My opinion only
Michel RV3
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Are Barstad
Sent: July 17, 2001 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV's and IFR
Michel from London, Ontario (also a list memeber) regularly flies his RV-3
IFR. I'm not sure for how many years but I think it has been a while. He's
is now building an RV-8.
Do you have comments on flying IFR with an RV Michel?
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Vanremog(at)aol.com
Sent: July 17, 2001 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's and IFR
In a message dated 7/17/01 2:21:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Owens(at)aerovironment.com writes:
<< I'll play devils advocate and ask REALLY how much IFR work do you plan to
do?
We all know the lighter your RV is the better it flies. All those
expensive
radios and autopilots (I personally wouldn't fly in the clouds without one)
and extra certifications could certainly be used for extra gas money, a long
trip, = a constant speed prop, or the occasional hotel room if you get stuck
in the soup somewhere. >>
Maybe the good Doctor Leo Davies down in OZ could pipe up on this issue. My
understanding is that he regularly flies IFR in his RV-6A. Well, Leo?
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
I feel your pain, brother. I recently accepted the fact that I will be way
over the 2000 hour mark before I'm done. How the others do it, I don't
know. It doesn't matter, I'm enjoying the journey and if I were going
faster, it would be more painful financially.
Press on!
Larry Bowen
Advance, NC
RV-8, fuse (nutplate purgatory),
1270.5 hrs so far ...
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
>
> I have come to the conclusion that I am building a different plane than s> ome
of you! I read on some of the builder's web sites that their build ti> mes are
really fast. Tail feathers less than 150 hrs., Wings in less than> 250 hrs.
and fuselages in less than 350 hrs.! I'm not doubting these guy> 's times but
man I'm wondering just what am I doing wrong! I have been in> the construction
business for 30 yrs, can read plans just fine and consi> der myself to be
a slightly above average builder, on the quality scale (> about a 7 or 7-1/5)
based on other RVs I've seen. Problem is my build tim> es are about 2 to 3 times
slower than these guys are reporting. Suggestio> ns and comments welcome!
>
> Tommy Walker
> 6A Fuselage
> Ridgetop, TN
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
Sorry to waste the list's bandwidth, but.....
Kevin,
Can you email me your telephone #, my email system keeps bouncing my email to your
address.
Thanks,
Laird
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Empty Weight Before Paint |
I just had my RV-6A weighed today. It came in at
1039. Useful load is 611 pounds. That is without
paint, wheel pants, and gear leg fairings. Is this
high? It seems by the time I add another 30 lbs in
paint and fiberglass, I'm not gonna be able to carry
myself and another 180-190 lb passenger with full fuel
and no bags. Could this be right?
====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Getting Close
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent S. Himsl" <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com> |
| Subject: | FW: RV-8 Tailwheel Assembly Installation |
I have installed the tailwheel assembly and of course it isn't correct.
Using the method shown in Orndoff video of placing the level on each side of
the wheel axel mount I find that the mount has to be turned 13 degrees off
center to show level. The axel itself seems to line up with the fuselage
center line. Rotating the assembly until centered and level shows that the
hole through the 409 was off by a little under 1/16 ".
Looks like you know what too.
Question: Before I order a new tailwheel assembly (ouch) and wd-409 and
start over, are there alternative fixes and or suggestions?
Regards and Thanks!
Vince Himsl
RV8 Fuselage
Moscow, ID USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Gray <bruce.gray(at)snet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Empty Weight Before Paint |
This is expermintal aviation. Your gross weight is what ever you
desire. Just stay in the CG range and no acro when 'overweight'.
Bruce
Glasair III
Paul Besing wrote:
>
> I just had my RV-6A weighed today. It came in at
> 1039. Useful load is 611 pounds. That is without
> paint, wheel pants, and gear leg fairings. Is this
> high? It seems by the time I add another 30 lbs in
> paint and fiberglass, I'm not gonna be able to carry
> myself and another 180-190 lb passenger with full fuel
> and no bags. Could this be right?
>
> ====
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A 197AB Arizona
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> Getting Close
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sally and George" <aeronut58(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: FW: RV-8 Tailwheel Assembly Installation |
Vince:
I'm not sure you need to do anything. If I understand correctly what you've said,
you might be riding a little bit on one side of the tailwheel,
and maybe it'll wear out a little sooner than otherwise (maybe not), but
I wouldn't expect any ground handling problems.
Just one man's opinion.
George Kilishek
N888GK
Final assembly
----- Original Message -----
From: Vincent S. Himsl
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 11:36 PM
Subject: RV8-List: FW: RV-8 Tailwheel Assembly Installation
--> RV8-List message posted by: "Vincent S. Himsl"
I have installed the tailwheel assembly and of course it isn't correct.
Using the method shown in Orndoff video of placing the level on each side of
the wheel axel mount I find that the mount has to be turned 13 degrees off
center to show level. The axel itself seems to line up with the fuselage
center line. Rotating the assembly until centered and level shows that the
hole through the 409 was off by a little under 1/16 ".
Looks like you know what too.
Question: Before I order a new tailwheel assembly (ouch) and wd-409 and
start over, are there alternative fixes and or suggestions?
Regards and Thanks!
Vince Himsl
RV8 Fuselage
Moscow, ID USA
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
08:12:37 AM
This thread is making me reconsider eventually putting on a twin comanche
CS prop on my IO-320 off a twin comanche. When I talk to the prop shop boys
they always say, you don't want to do this because if you loose your engine
it fully feathers. Hey, that might not be a bad deal. I guess just prop
failure would be a bad deal if the prop fails and the engine is still
running. Then you are coming down with a running engine. I hear lots of
Lancairs use this setup, they put stops on the governor and the the prop.
Eric Henson
JhnstnIII(at)aol.com@matronics.com on 07/16/2001 09:40:06 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV-List: Glide ratio
Listers--Has anyone determined the engine out, prop stopped, fine pitch
glide
ratio of an RV-6? Has anyone installed a full feathering prop in their RV
to
improve engine out glide performance? LeRoy Johnston, Ohio, Tanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich <houndsfour(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Empty Weight Before Paint |
I also weighed my "6". Only the cowl has to painted and it came in at
1007 lb.
I thought I'd be heavier. Now, on to the inspection.
Rich
Bruce Gray wrote:
>
> This is expermintal aviation. Your gross weight is what ever you
> desire. Just stay in the CG range and no acro when 'overweight'.
>
> Bruce
> Glasair III
>
> Paul Besing wrote:
>
> >
> > I just had my RV-6A weighed today. It came in at
> > 1039. Useful load is 611 pounds. That is without
> > paint, wheel pants, and gear leg fairings. Is this
> > high? It seems by the time I add another 30 lbs in
> > paint and fiberglass, I'm not gonna be able to carry
> > myself and another 180-190 lb passenger with full fuel
> > and no bags. Could this be right?
> >
> > ====
> > Paul Besing
> > RV-6A 197AB Arizona
> > http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> > Getting Close
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Not all of us are fast. For myself, the major portion of my building seems
to be looking at the plans, searching the archives, thinking ahead, and going
for a complete understanding of the next couple of operations before putting
any tools to metal.
Quality is the goal, not speed.
John McD (RV7A Emp)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Henley" <rv6plt(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 N154PK Flies! |
Way to go Pat. John Henley
----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Perry <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 8:57 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-4 N154PK Flies!
>
> Thanks to all of you who have offered advise over the past couple years!
>
> FAA DAR inspection went very well, I had the certificate by noon. Spent
> most of the afternoon putting covers and farings back on the plane. A
> couple of storms moved throught the area and set-up the weather for one of
> those perfect N.E. summer evenings, no wind..at all, and smooth cool air.
>
> I had a friend double check the plane and I finished fighting the cowl, I
> can't wait until that loosens up a little. The pins are very tight.
>
> We had a light shower move through and I thought it might put things off
> until the next morning. We kept at the plane and got everything ready for
> the next day(I thought). We got done, and looked around and decided to
send
> the chase plane up to check the weather and fog. Everthing was ready to
go
> so I did some taxi tests as the other plane climbed out to 4000'. Chris
> reported back everything was clear to the east and should stay that way
for
> a while.
>
> I did a run-up, double checked everything and gave it a try.
>
> AMAZING!!! it flew hands off on the first flight, it may need a little
> rudder tab but not much. I stayed right over the airport and climbed to
> 4000'. Did a few stalls which went well at all flap settings. After 20
> minutes of checking things I came back down.
>
> The landing was slightly high. One gentle bounce but I was satisfied.
I'll
> have plenty of time to get them perfected.
>
> A few things I have to work on, the oil temp went to 120 during the climb
> which was OK but during the manuvers it went back down. My gauge doesn't
go
> lower so I don't know how low it was. I don't know if this is normal but
it
> doesn't seem like it should be. I suspect a bad sender.
>
> My engine/prop performance seemed a little weaker than I expected. The
RPMs
> on the ground with a full power run-up were 2250. Climbout was at 90mph
and
> 1000fpm. In climb and flight I didn't see anything higher than 2500. I
> kept the speed below 160mph through the whole flight so I don't know if I
> will get more out of it on a flat run. I just climbed out to 4000 and did
a
> few manuvers and came down.
>
> I flew with John Henley a few weeks ago and his plane seemed a bit more
> powerfull with the same basic set-up.
>
> I'm using a Sensenich wood prop with 82" pitch and a Lycoming 320-E2D
150HP.
>
> What a great day, the feeling when you finally get the plane up is
> incredible. The hard work payed off!
>
> GGRRIINN!!
>
> Pat Perry
> N154PK Flight Testing
> Dallas, PA
>
>
NetZero Platinum
No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access
Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
http://www.netzero.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
John,
I've been flying (and staying current) IFR in N925RV since 1994, and have
logged in excess of 200 IFR hrs. As others have pointed out, the RV's are
"sporty" as compared to the more stable 172's, Bananza's and other certified
aircraft. Your ability to fly an RV in the IFR environment really boils down
to where you set your won personal limits. I did put in a wing leveler after
I had a good bout of vertigo one rainy night while trying to take an amended
clearance. While there are other approaches/methods to getting around high
workload related problems, the wing leveler (and ultimately a 2 axis
autopilot) does allow you more freedom (and less stress) in the cockpit to
perform non-flying tasks. It shouldn't be used as a crutch: you should
always be capable of flying without it. The autopilot also is really nice
for long distance flying, even VFR, allowing you to get to your destination
much more relaxed.
Your close by (especially by RV standards) so if you want to get together
sometime and shoot some approaches in my RV6A, under the hood, let me
know....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV (1950 hrs/7.8 Yrs)
E. Windsor, CT 06088
WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com
Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com
____
From: John Jessen <jjessen(at)cmbinfo.com>
Subject: RV-List: RV's and IFR
Folks:
I've read through the archives on this topic, and I'm fairly
satisfied that
I know the answer to this, but before I send off my order form for
an RV-7A
QB, I just want to give it one more shot, since I do plan on this
plane
fulfilling many roles. There will be the occasion when I will need
to fly
light to medium IFR one cross countries and want to hear from anyone
who
might recommend not using the RV for that application. I flew the
demonstrator (and the 9) at Van's last month and found it to be
exceptional.
Other than not having 4 seats, it is the plane for me. People are
clearly
using it for IFR and recommending a wing leveler for those times it
gets
busy. So.... if anyone has any final thoughts, please let me
know. Much
appreciated.
John Jessen
Lexington, MA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John & Teresa Huft" <widgeon92L(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Scotchbright Wheels. |
Les, I use a Baldor buffer (1800 rpm) to drive a 10" diameter by 1" wide
scotch brite wheel I bought from MSC, 1-800-645-7270. The long shaft on the
buffer holds the wheel out about 4" from the motor, so I can get to all
sides of it. The wheel does come with a 3" hole in the middle, but they sell
adapters to the 3/4" shaft of the buffer.
I usually use a "satin buff" on the other shaft of the buffer, it is like a
wad of scotch brite hand pads in a disc form, very nice for general cleaning
up of metal.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Les Rowles
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 5:28 PM
Subject: RV-List: Scotchbright Wheels.
Hello to all,
A while back if my memory serves me right, I saw on the list some one
advertising "Scatchbright Wheels" that were quite a bit larger than the
ones we are all using. I think they were wider and had a large arbor hole
so would require some work to get them operational for our purposes. Does
any body have any information on these wheels? Thank you.
Les Rowles.
Traralgon Australia.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
| Subject: | Marking Wiring, wire markers |
Marking Wiring
SNIP I didn't do this, but wish I had. You can buy clear
shrink tube. Make some labels of wires on a laser
printer, cut and put the clear shrink tube over the
wire. They look really nice, and you don't have to
worry about them coming off. SNIP
Yes it will look nice until it gets wet, then the ink will run. I suggest
that you:
1) paint a bit of clear over the water based ink.
2) find an old printer that still uses oil based ink.
3) just use a fine point sharpie pen.
4) go find one of your electrician buddies who has one of the really sweet
wire label printers.... yeah, that's the ticket!
5) the one most of us do.... just wire it and curse yourself for not
labeling it when you find a problem.
Vince Frazier
Harmon Rocket II ... the fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html <---- note: new
URL as of 5/30/01
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: material shipping |
dear listers,
i just ordered from aircraft spruce a 4x4 sheet of .032 and a 10 foot piece
of 3/4 x3/4 angle. they say they cannot ship it.
how is everyone receiving material like this in the mail?
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rpflanze(at)iquest.net |
| Subject: | Re: Empty Weight Before Paint |
>From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Empty Weight Before Paint
>I just had my RV-6A weighed today. It came in at
>1039. Useful load is 611 pounds. That is without
>paint, wheel pants, and gear leg fairings. Is this
>high? It seems by the time I add another 30 lbs in
>paint and fiberglass, I'm not gonna be able to carry
>myself and another 180-190 lb passenger with full fuel
>and no bags. Could this be right?
Paul,
Most folks set their gross weight above 1600 lbs. You can set your weight limit
to any number you'd like. My RV-6 came in at 1072 lbs empty. I set my gross
weight limitation at 1725 lbs, which I determined by playing around with the
weight and balance calculations. I determined that with my weight and the average
weight of a passenger and full fuel, that I could carry 60 lbs of baggage without
going aft CG after fuel burn off. So that total (1725) became my upper limit.
I placarded the baggage area for 100 lbs maximum in the single place configuration
and 60 lbs maximum in the two place configuration. I believe that maximum allowable
weight for aerobatics is 1375 lbs for an RV-6, which means that I can fly aerobatics
only with limited fuel on board.
I think if you sit down and do some sample calculations centered around maximum
weight for cross country flight with two people on board, then calculate the
CG after fuel burn off, you arrive at a reasonable gross weight that won't be
too far beyond Van's 1600 lbs.
Randy Pflanzer N417G
RV-6 (Cleaning up for OSH (the plane, not me))
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Degrees |
In the -4 with manual flaps, you have 2 positions, if done per plans: about
20 degrees and about 35 or so, as the flaps reflex up a bit with the air
pressure in flight. Up here where there isn't much air (5000+ feet), flaps
do shorten the takeoff run. I also use full flaps for landing as the angle
of glide is much steeper with them down. They do lower stall speed, so there
is more function than just drag. The other day I was flying formation (the
RVs are a great formation platform), but it was with a J-3 (!). All flaps
and complete control, even at 78 mph. What a design.....
I do have flap markings which are the epitomy of simple: on the outboard
section of the left flap (that is the direction you will be looking in most
patterns), in the 20 degree position, a small one inch or so square is
exposed, in the area of the stainless steel tape. With the second notch, a
second square is exposed above and in from that. Just takes a quick glance
to see what flaps are out.
--------
black white one notch
--------
-------- -------
white black
-------- ------- two notches
black white
-------- -------
This may not line up when sent to the list. The "white"is the silver
background of the stainless steel tape.
What are the markings made with? Magic Marker. I have to redo them about
twice a year. Simple. Come to OSH and I'll show you.......
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
gearing up for OSH................
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
I'm glad we have the "VFR OTT" (VFR Over-The-Top) capability here in Canada.
Most of the times I would like to go 'IFR', is when it there is a low layer
or just scattered clouds or even IMC somewhere between departure and
destination but clear otherwise.
The rating is easy to get, easy to upkeep and much less expensive for
instrumentation. I still plan on full IFR panel though although the RV is
limited since it can't (pratically) be equipped for known icing.
With a plane capable of altitudes of up to ~25,000 ft, you can fly in
smooth, clear air many times where you otherwise be flying low in haze and
bad visibility and with many other GA aircraft zooming around you. Many
times, only 5-8000 ft is required for a nice ride. IFR doesn't always mean
that you have to shoot IFR approaches or fly through CB's.
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Stucklen,
Frederic IFC
Sent: July 18, 2001 9:26 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV's and IFR
John,
I've been flying (and staying current) IFR in N925RV since 1994, and have
logged in excess of 200 IFR hrs. As others have pointed out, the RV's are
"sporty" as compared to the more stable 172's, Bananza's and other certified
aircraft. Your ability to fly an RV in the IFR environment really boils down
to where you set your won personal limits. I did put in a wing leveler after
I had a good bout of vertigo one rainy night while trying to take an amended
clearance. While there are other approaches/methods to getting around high
workload related problems, the wing leveler (and ultimately a 2 axis
autopilot) does allow you more freedom (and less stress) in the cockpit to
perform non-flying tasks. It shouldn't be used as a crutch: you should
always be capable of flying without it. The autopilot also is really nice
for long distance flying, even VFR, allowing you to get to your destination
much more relaxed.
Your close by (especially by RV standards) so if you want to get together
sometime and shoot some approaches in my RV6A, under the hood, let me
know....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV (1950 hrs/7.8 Yrs)
E. Windsor, CT 06088
WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com
Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com
____
From: John Jessen <jjessen(at)cmbinfo.com>
Subject: RV-List: RV's and IFR
Folks:
I've read through the archives on this topic, and I'm fairly
satisfied that
I know the answer to this, but before I send off my order form for
an RV-7A
QB, I just want to give it one more shot, since I do plan on this
plane
fulfilling many roles. There will be the occasion when I will need
to fly
light to medium IFR one cross countries and want to hear from anyone
who
might recommend not using the RV for that application. I flew the
demonstrator (and the 9) at Van's last month and found it to be
exceptional.
Other than not having 4 seats, it is the plane for me. People are
clearly
using it for IFR and recommending a wing leveler for those times it
gets
busy. So.... if anyone has any final thoughts, please let me
know. Much
appreciated.
John Jessen
Lexington, MA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: material shipping |
I call Wicks
Mike
>
> dear listers,
> i just ordered from aircraft spruce a 4x4 sheet of .032 and a 10 foot
piece
> of 3/4 x3/4 angle. they say they cannot ship it.
> how is everyone receiving material like this in the mail?
> scott
> tampa
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Degrees |
Paul, I quickly found out that if you forget to roll em up, they will sure
slow down your rate of climb. That is all you need to know, up or down. Just
look out the window.
Kevin -9A guy
> Can some -6(A) folks out there tell me what the
> > typical stops are for flap settings? 10 degrees, 25
> > degrees, 40 degrees, etc?
> >
> > ====
> > Paul Besing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John & Teresa Huft" <widgeon92L(at)email.msn.com> |
It is better to be kicking yourself for going too slow, than kicking
yourself for doing a lousy job.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of JTAnon(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 6:53 AM
Subject: RV-List: Build time
Not all of us are fast. For myself, the major portion of my building seems
to be looking at the plans, searching the archives, thinking ahead, and
going
for a complete understanding of the next couple of operations before putting
any tools to metal.
Quality is the goal, not speed.
John McD (RV7A Emp)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: material shipping |
I ordered 2 6 foot long hinge pins from Vans a few months ago, they put them
in a piece of PVC pipe and mailed them!
I used the pipe on a different project.
Now thats customer support!
Kevin -9A
> dear listers,
> i just ordered from aircraft spruce a 4x4 sheet of .032 and a 10 foot
piece
> of 3/4 x3/4 angle. they say they cannot ship it.
> how is everyone receiving material like this in the mail?
> scott
> tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Marking Wiring, wire markers |
If your wires get wet enough to run underneath shrink
tube, I think you have alot more to worry about than
if the ink runs! :-)
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Inspection this saturday!
--- "Frazier, Vincent A" wrote:
>
>
> Marking Wiring
>
> SNIP I didn't do this, but wish I had. You can buy
> clear
> shrink tube. Make some labels of wires on a laser
> printer, cut and put the clear shrink tube over the
> wire. They look really nice, and you don't have to
> worry about them coming off. SNIP
>
> Yes it will look nice until it gets wet, then the
> ink will run. I suggest
> that you:
>
> 1) paint a bit of clear over the water based ink.
> 2) find an old printer that still uses oil based
> ink.
> 3) just use a fine point sharpie pen.
> 4) go find one of your electrician buddies who has
> one of the really sweet
> wire label printers.... yeah, that's the ticket!
> 5) the one most of us do.... just wire it and curse
> yourself for not
> labeling it when you find a problem.
>
> Vince Frazier
> Harmon Rocket II ... the fine line between "hobby"
> and "mental illness."
>
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html
> <---- note: new
> URL as of 5/30/01
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: material shipping |
UPS is limited to 9' on any package dimension. For long pieces of angle and
such, the cheapest way to ship is find another local builder that has a
wing/fuselage/finish kit coming and have Van's add what you want to the
crate (motor freight shipping). I did this a few times with my local group.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (system install)
Vienna, VA
----- Original Message -----
From: <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: material shipping
>
> dear listers,
> i just ordered from aircraft spruce a 4x4 sheet of .032 and a 10 foot
piece
> of 3/4 x3/4 angle. they say they cannot ship it.
> how is everyone receiving material like this in the mail?
> scott
> tampa
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: fuel pressure |
No, no leak there. System is fine with the E/P hooked
directly to the fuel soarce
Stewart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com> |
| Subject: | about chart pricing |
I'd like to chime in here about Andy's service.
Both his books and Chart service are excellent, prices are fair, and
he responds to all email inquiries immediately.
Andy has also supported me with obsolete maps to give to Young Eagles
and has donated door prizes to our annual RV Forum.
Let's support the people who support the RV community!
Ed Cole
RV6A N2169D Flying (Still parked at Arlington due to weather!)
RV6A N648RV Finishing
> -----Original Message-----
> From: eCharts [SMTP:winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 4:07 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: about chart pricing
>
>
> A few words about chart pricing: There have been quite a few posts over
> the
> past few days about "where to get the cheapest charts". Let me chime in.
>
> NO, we are not the cheapest guys on the net, nor do I want to be. (nor are
> we
> even close to the most expensive). I don't think simply "cheap" is what
> most
> pilots are looking for. Instead, I prefer to grow a business by providing
> extraordinary customer service and most timely delivery possible, and
> we've
> spent many nights in the shipping room packing revisions till 2:00 in the
> morning proving it.
>
> Why, because the FAA only gives its dealers a couple days from the time
> they
> release a new edition until the old one becomes obsolete and illegal. Its
> our
> responsibility to make sure our subscribers get those new editions BEFORE
> the
> old ones go obsolete, not a few days after because the packers go home at
> 5:00
> and we can't afford the overtime.
>
> And why again? Because a lot of our chart orders are from people planning
> a
> trip, usually within the next couple days. They can't wait until after
> they
> leave for their orders to arrive, and they typically need them as soon as
> possible for planning. Chart orders always go out immediately, and always
> from
> inventory in stock, even if it means nights and weekends to save those
> extra
> couple of days.
>
> So what do you want; to save .20 cents on a Sectional, or a fast and
> dependable
> source for what you need. I'm betting on the latter. And, I want to thank
> all
> of those who have agreed by putting their faith in us in the past and to
> those
> who will in the future.
>
> Thank you,
> Andy Gold
> eCharts
> http://www.eCharts.cc
>
> Builder's Bookstore
> http://www.buildersbooks.com
>
> RV-6A N-5060
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | material shipping |
Thread-Topic: RV-List: material shipping
Thread-Index: AcEPmQ3XsUHO9oWxRbydUK543W4yDQACJAmQ
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
Scott,
You may want to try a local metal supplier. Whenever I've needed big
pieces of .032 I've ordered it from a local company and they delivered
it for free (they have a truck that runs my way daily) and to top that
off they are cheaper than the aviation suppliers. When I did my
one-piece main wing skins they delivered two 4'x12' pieces of .032
alclad to my doorstep. If you're ordering angle make sure it is
radiused on the inside corner.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 178 hours
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com [mailto:ABAYMAN(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 9:01 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: material shipping
>
>
>
> dear listers,
> i just ordered from aircraft spruce a 4x4 sheet of .032 and a
> 10 foot piece
> of 3/4 x3/4 angle. they say they cannot ship it.
> how is everyone receiving material like this in the mail?
> scott
> tampa
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: material shipping |
> I just ordered from aircraft spruce a 4x4 sheet of .032 and a 10 foot
piece
> of 3/4 x3/4 angle. they say they cannot ship it.
UPS has a size limit with what they can ship. USPS may be able to take it,
otherwise, FedEx and some of the other carriers may be able to handle it.
It can also go by truck. They HAVE to get it to you somehow, otherwise, why
would they have it in their catalog..........oh, never mind.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | RV-9A trim tab question |
On the 9A trim tab, should you bend the trailing edge first and then bend
the tabs on each end, or is it easier to bend the end tabs first and the
trailing edge last?
Thanks,
Mark Schrimmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
My instrument training was done in the early 1940's and I flew
commercially until my retirement in 1981. Most of my instrument flying
was done on light twins and several years on DC3's. In all this time I
never flew an aircraft that was equipped with a auto pilot.
In 1988 when I made the decision to build the RV 6 the choice of
instruments was based on what I had learned over the years and the type
of flying I wanted to do with my RV. Cross county was to be my primary
use and with the advent of VFR on top here in Canada it made it possible
to get better utilization from our aircraft on VFR cross country. VFR
on top plus the safety factor of having been instrument trained the
decision for me was a IFR panel.
For me VFR on top is just short of a licence to kill yourself unless you
have had instrument training and your aircraft has some basic
instruments. Believe me, I had and engine quit on a C185 on floats on
top or 5000 feet of solid cloud with a 300 foot ceiling under it and I
can assure you this does nothing to improve your day, but that is
another story.
Flying my RV6 on instruments requires a greater concentration than any
other aircraft I have flown but is entirely acceptable, you need to be
well organized in the cockpit so as not to be searching around for
navigational information. Having another pilot with you makes it a snap.
The primary reason I am adding this post to the list is for those who
have had no instrument training. Over the years I have watched the ever
growing list of fatal accidents by those who have a tendency to push the
weather (scud running). In nearly ever case the ability to fly just
basic instruments would have saved their lives. It is not that difficult
and you don't need to be a precision instrument pilot to do it, I am not
talking about shooting an ILS in 300 and 1 but just the ability to pull
up get settled down on the gages and do a careful 180 to get you back to
VFR conditions. With proper training this can be safely done with
nothing more that a vertical speed, sensitive altimeter, turn and bank
and a compass.
It has been my observation that those who tend to push the weather and
are frequent flyers will sooner or later run into a situation when they
will wish they had instrument capability.
As always safety is my priority.
Eustace Blind Bay, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
An RV-4 owner at Oskhosh said to me "Do You want me to tell you how to
get an RV done and flying"?----Just do something every day, if it is
nothing more than cleaning up the work area and putting your tools away.
And if I may add color code(Dymo Tape) your parts trays.Blue for
bolts,yellow for washers,red for rivets,green for nuts,etc.___ I saw a
man near Visalia Cal. who had all his parts in the paper bags just the
way Van sent them.
Bob Murphy Poplar Grove ILL. (C77)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Empty Weight Before Paint |
Hi Paul,
Glad to see you are moving along. Casper ( my 6) also weighed exactly
1039, WEIRD!
This was weighed on Chapter 338's new electronic scales, with witness
to keep me honest.
I'll give you the configuration so you can make a comparison.
RV6 Tilt/Tail dragger, 0360, Sensenich 85", B & C 40 Amp alt & starter,
2 recumbent gas batteries in original location with 2 separate solenoids
for redundancy (Jeff Rose EI on right side), day/night VFR, uEncoder &
uMonitor, AOA system, Navaid wing leveler, Eze Trim altitude hold, 4
EGT/CHT, ECI fuel Gauge, Electronic Compass (Richie, remote), Sony
CD/AM/FM radio (have to keep the ladies happy), Intercom, panel mount
for King Skyforce GPS, Mac trim for elevator & aileron, dual landing
lights, G meter, glove box, Parking Brake, Left Hand side mount
throttle & mixture (RV8), Removable pilots stick, Center mounted 11.5
gal fuel tank, 3.5 LB Halon fire extinguisher, and of coarse an ELT.
The firewall, floor (to the spar) and cabin side walls (to baggage
compartment) are sound proofed. The floor, side walls and rear baggage
compartment bulkhead & upper sides are also covered with my Versadek
product, which adds extra sound proofing, looks and durability. The
seats are Temperfoam and are covered in sheep hide (warm in winter cool
in summer).
The vertical stab is 8" taller and extends over the rudder (turned out
to be a great place to mount the tail position light). The gear leg
fairing are a wide cord design similar to Tracy Saylors, but are carbon
fiber/epoxy and bonded to the gear leg to enhance fore and aft
stiffness. The Wheel Pants are Vans latest. And of coarse my removable
long snout carb air intake.
The fuselage has a very heavy coat of Poly Fiber metal prime water borne
polyurethane primer (most to be sanded off prior to final painting). The
wings and tail have a normal coat of the same.
I don't think your airplane is all that heavy. Remember that the 0360 &
metal prop add almost 65 lb. to the "6" over a 0320/wood combination.
I've set my Gross at 1700 lb. which is only 50 lb. over Vans
recommendation, and it is impossible for me to be outside of the
envelope in any of the examples that Vans uses in the W/B section of the
Manual. After I got my weight numbers I called and talked with Tom at
Vans he said my numbers were very reasonable.
Good Luck with it and remember to "take it easy".
Garry, To the airport this weekend!
Paul Besing wrote:
>
> I just had my RV-6A weighed today. It came in at
> 1039. Useful load is 611 pounds. That is without
> paint, wheel pants, and gear leg fairings. Is this
> high? It seems by the time I add another 30 lbs in
> paint and fiberglass, I'm not gonna be able to carry
> myself and another 180-190 lb passenger with full fuel
> and no bags. Could this be right?
>
> ====
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A 197AB Arizona
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> Getting Close
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
I checked to make sure I wasn't blowing smoke so I checked with my expert,
Earl Lawrence
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Lawrence" <elawrence(at)eaa.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 9:17 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV's and IFR
Yes
An owner/pilot of an experimental aircraft may receive all the flight
instruction he wants in his own aircraft. It is only when you want to
"rent" the aircraft to someone else that you need an exemption.
Earl
-----Original Message-----
From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley(at)qcbc.org]
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's and IFR
Is this correct?
You CAN have an instructor give you instruction in your own airplane. You
just can't rent it out for an instructor to give IFR lessons to another
person. Since you, the owner, aren't renting, everything is O.K. This of
course is after your test flying is over.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Textor" <pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 2:50 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV's and IFR
Although I'm light years away from completion, I have considered making my 8
IFR. The bad thing is I won't be able to receive dual in it, shucks! But,
it seems with the climb and cruise performance a guy most probably won't be
cruising down around 2500 feet. More possibly around 10k+. Most of the
time IFR would help to cruise up there without busting cloud minimums.
Jack
RV8, 1st tank done
Will head to OSH Monday
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic Engine |
The current Lycoming aerobatic engines come equipped with the Aviat
(Christen) inverted oil system, including the sump plug between the sump
and the oil suction screen. Older Lyc. AE's had a separate "dry sump"
system, which of course is still shown in their current overhaul manual!
The "oil pick up near the top of the engine" is breather tube, which
functions as such when flying inverted. IIRC, the Aviat oil system is
$1,500-1,700 (I don't have my old invoice handy).
To be certain of what you want and what you'll be getting, I suggest you
call/email both Lycoming and Aviat to get current, straight info.
Boyd.
RV-Super 6
Venice, FL
Steve Hurlbut wrote:
>
>
> I want to put an aerobatic engine in my RV-7A.
>
> Should I get:
> 1. AEIO-360-B1F rated aerobatic engine.
> 2. IO-360 180 hp with the added Christen Inverted Oil System.
>
> I realize the AEIO-360-B1F has an oil pick-up near the top of the engine as
> well as in the oil sump.
> What are some other differences?
>
> Is the inverted oil system in the AEIO-360-B1F all internal?
>
> What would be the advantages and disadvantages of using these 2 engines.
>
> My experience says that the IO-360 with the inverted oil system will be much
> cheaper.
>
> Thankx
> Steve Hurlbut
> shurlbut(at)island.net
> RV-7A
> emp, wings, fuse in box
> Comox, BC, Canada
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Running wire to the tail |
servos, The Ray Allen Co. http://www.rayallencompany.com
Boyd.
Dan DeNeal wrote:
>
>
> I was looking at the wiring diagram for the electric
> elevator trim tab. It shows using 5 wires to make it
> work with the gauge. It calls for 26 or 28 gauge wire.
> The wiring diagram also said that Mac has a special
> color coated wire for the long run. Who is selling
> this Mac wire? or is it cheaper just to buy 100 ft and
> cut it 5 ways. (the length from instrument panel to
> trim tab is about 20 ft.)
>
> Dan DeNeal
> rv6a
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | Alternate static source |
In pursuit of simplicity, I installed a T fitting on the back of my VSI.
One leg of the T points down and has a cap on it. For alternate static I
can reach under the panel and remove the cap.
Ken Harrill
RV-6
Columbia, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
Ummmm... You mean everone doesn't leave the parts in the paper bags??
-----Original Message-----
From: RVPilot4(at)webtv.net [mailto:RVPilot4(at)webtv.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 9:43 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Building Speed
An RV-4 owner at Oskhosh said to me "Do You want me to tell
you how to
get an RV done and flying"?----Just do something every day,
if it is
nothing more than cleaning up the work area and putting your
tools away.
And if I may add color code(Dymo Tape) your parts trays.Blue
for
bolts,yellow for washers,red for rivets,green for
nuts,etc.___ I saw a
man near Visalia Cal. who had all his parts in the paper
bags just the
way Van sent them.
Bob Murphy Poplar Grove ILL. (C77)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97(at)aol.com |
I understand that Werner Berry (RV-6A) has done such a test.... not sure of
the results/data. I think he is at Testpylot(at)aol.com or at his company
website aeroengraving .com (I think). Anyway, Werner may see this post and
provide us with the data.
Walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrjb(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV's and IFR (re. Eustace comments on safety) |
Eustace,
I think you are right on. On my recent trip to Alaska, I was very happy for
the minumum insstrument training I had just before the trip. I am not
instrument rated, but in the 60's I had the training and the passed the
written, but did not go for the check ride :>( The military started
releasing pilots for the airlines again and they were no longer interested
in us 200 hour mechanical engineers. Back to the IFR in RV's. I got stuck
VFR on top over Edmonton, decided to fly down thru what looked like a hole
that I could see the ground, but turned out to probably have been a cloud
shadow. Told ATC that I was going IMC to climb back on top which I did no
problem. When I was building my 6, Bill Benedict told me that they did not
normally put gyros in Vans planes. He said that in all his trips back and
forth across the USA he only spent two nights in motels that he had not
planned on. I believe that there is a strong possibility that he would have
flown out of his predicament had he confessed, climbed, and complied early
enough and had the equipment to do it.
I hate 2nd guessing accidents, but I also believe we should try to learn as
much as is probable on preventing them.
Bernie Kerr, 6A, on the way to Oshkosh tomorrow early
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 12:18 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV's and IFR
>
> My instrument training was done in the early 1940's and I flew
> commercially until my retirement in 1981. Most of my instrument flying
> was done on light twins and several years on DC3's. In all this time I
> never flew an aircraft that was equipped with a auto pilot.
>
> In 1988 when I made the decision to build the RV 6 the choice of
> instruments was based on what I had learned over the years and the type
> of flying I wanted to do with my RV. Cross county was to be my primary
> use and with the advent of VFR on top here in Canada it made it possible
> to get better utilization from our aircraft on VFR cross country. VFR
> on top plus the safety factor of having been instrument trained the
> decision for me was a IFR panel.
>
> For me VFR on top is just short of a licence to kill yourself unless you
> have had instrument training and your aircraft has some basic
> instruments. Believe me, I had and engine quit on a C185 on floats on
> top or 5000 feet of solid cloud with a 300 foot ceiling under it and I
> can assure you this does nothing to improve your day, but that is
> another story.
>
> Flying my RV6 on instruments requires a greater concentration than any
> other aircraft I have flown but is entirely acceptable, you need to be
> well organized in the cockpit so as not to be searching around for
> navigational information. Having another pilot with you makes it a snap.
>
> The primary reason I am adding this post to the list is for those who
> have had no instrument training. Over the years I have watched the ever
> growing list of fatal accidents by those who have a tendency to push the
> weather (scud running). In nearly ever case the ability to fly just
> basic instruments would have saved their lives. It is not that difficult
> and you don't need to be a precision instrument pilot to do it, I am not
> talking about shooting an ILS in 300 and 1 but just the ability to pull
> up get settled down on the gages and do a careful 180 to get you back to
> VFR conditions. With proper training this can be safely done with
> nothing more that a vertical speed, sensitive altimeter, turn and bank
> and a compass.
>
> It has been my observation that those who tend to push the weather and
> are frequent flyers will sooner or later run into a situation when they
> will wish they had instrument capability.
>
> As always safety is my priority.
>
> Eustace Blind Bay, B.C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com> |
| Subject: | Oil line dificulty |
I don't have enough room to put the oil cooler line on the back of my
engine. I have a spin on oil filter adapter which precludes me from using
any "normal" hose end. The fitting is in the engine (straight fitting), but
the oil filter is in the way (just barely) precluding me from using the
typical #8 hose. The only solution I can find is to use a teflon line which
is smaller OD (same ID) and thus has a smaller fitting.
jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
I took all the parts out of the paper bags when I received the tail kit.
Looked real cool to have all those small plastic drawers nicely labeled and
full of AIRCRAFT parts! What a stupid thing to do!!! I since leave the parts
in their bags except rivets and everything is much easier to find.
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Van Artsdalen,
Scott
Sent: July 18, 2001 3:28 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Building Speed
Ummmm... You mean everone doesn't leave the parts in the paper bags??
-----Original Message-----
From: RVPilot4(at)webtv.net [mailto:RVPilot4(at)webtv.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 9:43 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Building Speed
An RV-4 owner at Oskhosh said to me "Do You want me to tell
you how to
get an RV done and flying"?----Just do something every day,
if it is
nothing more than cleaning up the work area and putting your
tools away.
And if I may add color code(Dymo Tape) your parts trays.Blue
for
bolts,yellow for washers,red for rivets,green for
nuts,etc.___ I saw a
man near Visalia Cal. who had all his parts in the paper
bags just the
way Van sent them.
Bob Murphy Poplar Grove ILL. (C77)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Empty Weight Before Paint |
Subject: RV-List: Empty Weight Before Paint
>
> I just had my RV-6A weighed today. It came in at
> 1039. Useful load is 611 pounds. That is without
> paint, wheel pants, and gear leg fairings. Is this
> high? It seems by the time I add another 30 lbs in
> paint and fiberglass, I'm not gonna be able to carry
> myself and another 180-190 lb passenger with full fuel
> and no bags. Could this be right?
>
> ====
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A 197AB Arizona
Paul,
Just to give you a perspective, my IFR equipped RV-6A came in empty
weight at 1170 lbs with my C.G at the forward limit. My legal gross weight
is 1800 lbs. I have flown it at 1700lbs gross weight and had no problem
staying well within aft C.G limits. I have since painted and upholstered
the plane, so no doubt added 30 lbs or so there. I have removed the two
heavy Concord 25AH batteries, so saved about 14lbs there.
The major difference I noticed after painting it was my c.g is not quite so
far forward (I used to run out of up trim with full flaps when tanks were
low) and flares better. Also on hot day at 1700 lbs I need to keep my
airspeed on final around 80 mph IAS or she starts to sink rapidly and takes
a lot of rotation to flare it (yes, I did ding my rear tie down once before
I learned).
I get 1200 FPM ROC between 2000-3000 msl and 190 mph TAS tops. So the
additional weight does extract its price, but even so the RV performance is
so much greater than anything I had previously flow its a constant joy to
fly.
Ed Anderson
Matthews, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
I have a large enema bag with hose attached on the wall of my workshop
with a sign on it "this is for anyone who cannot resist the urge to
critize my RV project".
Bob Murphy Poplar Grove ILL. (C77)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: material shipping |
Most cities have metal suppliers where you can buy what you need.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: material shipping
>
>
> > I just ordered from aircraft spruce a 4x4 sheet of .032 and a 10 foot
> piece
> > of 3/4 x3/4 angle. they say they cannot ship it.
>
> UPS has a size limit with what they can ship. USPS may be able to take it,
> otherwise, FedEx and some of the other carriers may be able to handle it.
> It can also go by truck. They HAVE to get it to you somehow, otherwise,
why
> would they have it in their catalog..........oh, never mind.
>
> Michael
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
Would someone repost the time and place we might meet at Oshkosh? I am
leaving Sunday.
Bob Murphy Poplar Grove ILL. (C77)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Headsets Jacks |
put the headset/mic jacks on the rear brace of the roll bar ( tipper ) mount
the headset holder on the rear of the roll bar behind each person, it keeps
the wires off your lap, and they are easy to reach and store, and plug in.
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic Engine |
The Van's Accessories Catalog lists only one IO-360, and it's not an
"aerobatic" engine. Should we be lobbying Van's to get the aerobatic engine
with the OEM discount? What do you give up if you use the IO-360 from Van's
and put a Aviat oil system on it?
Steve Johnson
RV-8
finishing wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aerobatic Engine
>
> The current Lycoming aerobatic engines come equipped with the Aviat
> (Christen) inverted oil system, including the sump plug between the sump
> and the oil suction screen. Older Lyc. AE's had a separate "dry sump"
> system, which of course is still shown in their current overhaul manual!
> The "oil pick up near the top of the engine" is breather tube, which
> functions as such when flying inverted. IIRC, the Aviat oil system is
> $1,500-1,700 (I don't have my old invoice handy).
>
> To be certain of what you want and what you'll be getting, I suggest you
> call/email both Lycoming and Aviat to get current, straight info.
>
> Boyd.
> RV-Super 6
> Venice, FL
>
> Steve Hurlbut wrote:
> >
> >
> > I want to put an aerobatic engine in my RV-7A.
> >
> > Should I get:
> > 1. AEIO-360-B1F rated aerobatic engine.
> > 2. IO-360 180 hp with the added Christen Inverted Oil System.
> >
> > I realize the AEIO-360-B1F has an oil pick-up near the top of the engine
as
> > well as in the oil sump.
> > What are some other differences?
> >
> > Is the inverted oil system in the AEIO-360-B1F all internal?
> >
> > What would be the advantages and disadvantages of using these 2 engines.
> >
> > My experience says that the IO-360 with the inverted oil system will be
much
> > cheaper.
> >
> > Thankx
> > Steve Hurlbut
> > shurlbut(at)island.net
> > RV-7A
> > emp, wings, fuse in box
> > Comox, BC, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
| Subject: | Aeroflash Installation |
RV Aeroflash users,
Does the Aeroflash tip unit on a fiberglass wing tip need to be grounded? It
looks to me that it does! Would someone with these in operation on their RV
please respond. Drilling holes in the wing tip for the Aeroflash system.
Also I plan to install the power supply to the tip rib forward of the spar.
Has any RV Builder made and used a gasket between the light unit and wing
tip? Comments please!
Best regards,
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
RV4 N23BB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Hall" <robjhall(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Headsets Jacks |
At the aft end of the arm rest. Keeps the wires out of the way while the
plugs are still accessible (just barely) while seated. I would do it that
way again.
Bob Hall, RV-6
Colorado Springs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil line dificulty |
Jim,
I had to use a 45 deg #8 fitting to get the clearance on my O-320-D1A.
I used the hoses Van's sells.
Rick Caldwell
-6 Melbourne, FL
>From: "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Oil line dificulty
>Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 15:57:30 -0400
>
>
>
>I don't have enough room to put the oil cooler line on the back of my
>engine. I have a spin on oil filter adapter which precludes me from using
>any "normal" hose end. The fitting is in the engine (straight fitting),
>but
>the oil filter is in the way (just barely) precluding me from using the
>typical #8 hose. The only solution I can find is to use a teflon line
>which
>is smaller OD (same ID) and thus has a smaller fitting.
>
>jim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil line dificulty |
I made my hoses with Earls products. In this spot I used a 90 degree tube
fitting part # 809108. I could hold the angle I wanted and tighten it in.
The tube fitting is slimmer than the regular fittings. Others have made 45
degree fittings work.
Ross
>
> I don't have enough room to put the oil cooler line on the back of my
> engine. I have a spin on oil filter adapter which precludes me from using
> any "normal" hose end. The fitting is in the engine (straight fitting),
but
> the oil filter is in the way (just barely) precluding me from using the
> typical #8 hose. The only solution I can find is to use a teflon line
which
> is smaller OD (same ID) and thus has a smaller fitting.
>
> jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aeroflash Installation |
It is grounded internally by the black wires that come
out of it. They are installed on the van's wingtip
extensions, which makes for a nice installation. The
Aeroflash units fit perfectly, and do not need a
gasket of any kind. I put the power supplies on the
front of the spar, not on the rib. I feel it would be
much more work to try and stiffen the rib for the
powersupply. It was a simple installation with just 4
AN-3 bolts. I put it about 2 inches inboard from the
outer rib on the forward part of the spar. Sam
Buchanan did the same thing, and he has a picture
showing the installation. I'm not flying yet, but it
does work!
====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Getting Close
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil line dificulty |
Jim,
Check your engine. Up near the breather line and where the other oil cooler
line goes into the engine there may be another plug there. If it is there
that plug is an alternate oil cooler fitting location in lieu of the rear
location next to the oil filter.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
>From: "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Oil line dificulty
>Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 15:57:30 -0400
>
>
>
>I don't have enough room to put the oil cooler line on the back of my
>engine. I have a spin on oil filter adapter which precludes me from using
>any "normal" hose end. The fitting is in the engine (straight fitting),
>but
>the oil filter is in the way (just barely) precluding me from using the
>typical #8 hose. The only solution I can find is to use a teflon line
>which
>is smaller OD (same ID) and thus has a smaller fitting.
>
>jim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List: CDI Wiring |
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Norman"
>
> Can one CDI be switched to operate either the GPS or the VOR/ILS? I would
> like to also be sending whatever the CDI is reading to the Navaid smart
> coupler at the same time.
>
*** Depends on the kind of CDI. It will work with a CDI that only has
meter movements in it. KNI-520, KI-206, IND-351A, or an HSI: NSD360 etc.
Many low-end CDI's have a built in "VOR Converter" - these won't work with a
GPS. Basically, such CDIs ( KI-201C, KI-214 etc ) take the complex audio
output from the receiver and demodulate it. GPS's don't output a complex
audio signal, they just output currents to move meter needles.
OK, if you have the right sort of CDI, you still have to switch it. A
glideslope CDI contains five meter movements. Two needles and three flags.
Each movement has two wires ( they don't use common grounds ) so you will
need ten switch contacts or relays. Well, you could probably get by with
eight relays by using a common ground for the Horiz & vert nav flags. That
could boil down to two 4PDT relays.
Also, the FAA requires that you have an annunciator that says what the
indicator is reading. Hence those cute little $500 switch/annunciator
boxes.
A GNS-430 doesn't need a switch/annunciator box because the switching
is done inside the box, AND because it displays the indicator source
immediately above the button that chooses it.
If by "navaid smart coupler" you mean an autopilot, that's no problem,
you just hook the autopilot input across the CDI horiz needle movement.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don R Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
Keith:
I would consider drilling the 632 brace out , so you can finish trimming
to fit.
I neveer got the plexi down all the way. As Will points out in his notes,
You will need to re trim the forward edge of the aft half of the glass
after you cut to make it work out if the rear is not all the way up.
Don Jordan - 6A - N6DJ - dons6a(at)juno.com - Arlington, TX
***********************************************************************
writes:
>
> I am fitting the tip-up canopy on the RV-6. I screwed up by
> previously
> riveting the cabin brace between the f-606 and the f-631, so the
> canopy has
> been resting on that and the front edge of the canopy skin. There
> is a gap
> between the roll bar and the plexiglass. I have been trimming from
> the
> front and the gap has narrowed from over 1/2 inch, to about 3/16
> inch
> currently. I am hesitant to keep trimming, because the overall
> canopy
> length is currently 64.5 inches, 1/2 inch less than what the plans
> tell you
> are approximate. My question is, should I keep trimming, try
> trimming the
> aft part, or resign myself to shimming the roll bar to meet the
> canopy?
>
> Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.
>
> Keith
> RV-6 Canopy
> Parker, CO.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jmw ..." <jmw_32(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV6/7 empennage kit for sale |
FOR SALE:
RV 6/7 Empennage Kit. Purchased Feb. 2000 and still have not started it.
Purchased with O.20" skins and counter balanced rudder so can be used for
RV-7. In Toronto, Ontario region.
$1200 US. Plans and manuals included.
reply off list to: jmw_32(at)hotmail.com
Joel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aeroflash Installation |
Bruce,
One of the existing wires that comes out of the unit is the ground wire for
the mount. The nav light and tail light, if you have one of those three way
units, are grounded through their plugs but the strobe is grounded through a
little braded wire you are supposed to pinch with the cover whene you put
the last screw in. I found this ground to be less than adequate, to put it
mildly, I ended up soldering a short piece of wire to the braid and to the
mount itself. Solved the grounding problem. Other than that the Aeroflash
units have worked well.
I also mounted the flasher units in the wing ends just inboard of the last
rib, bolted to the spar. I didn't like the idea of the high power lines
going throuh the wing wire loom with the other wires.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
>From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Aeroflash Installation
>Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 15:47:58 -0500
>
>
>RV Aeroflash users,
>Does the Aeroflash tip unit on a fiberglass wing tip need to be grounded?
>It
>looks to me that it does! Would someone with these in operation on their RV
>please respond. Drilling holes in the wing tip for the Aeroflash system.
>Also I plan to install the power supply to the tip rib forward of the spar.
>Has any RV Builder made and used a gasket between the light unit and wing
>tip? Comments please!
>Best regards,
>Bruce Bell
>Lubbock, Texas
>RV4 N23BB
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Marking Wiring, wire markers |
Laser printing doesn't run as it is heat fused! Ink jet ink is water based.
It will run.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 9:00 AM
Subject: RV-List: Marking Wiring, wire markers
Marking Wiring
SNIP I didn't do this, but wish I had. You can buy clear
shrink tube. Make some labels of wires on a laser
printer, cut and put the clear shrink tube over the
wire. They look really nice, and you don't have to
worry about them coming off. SNIP
Yes it will look nice until it gets wet, then the ink will run. I suggest
that you:
1) paint a bit of clear over the water based ink.
2) find an old printer that still uses oil based ink.
3) just use a fine point sharpie pen.
4) go find one of your electrician buddies who has one of the really sweet
wire label printers.... yeah, that's the ticket!
5) the one most of us do.... just wire it and curse yourself for not
labeling it when you find a problem.
Vince Frazier
Harmon Rocket II ... the fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html <---- note: new
URL as of 5/30/01
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Holes |
Norman,
I bought that $100 tool that punches the holes but ended up using my
flycutter and returning the tool. The flycutter works great as long as you
run it slow (250 rpm or less), use oil, and clamp the panel securely to
something like particle board. With just a touch of dressing with a small
scotchbrite wheel the holes came out perfectly. I would definitely do it
that way again. And no, I didn't undersize them, just went right for the
correct dimensions.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, N558RL, 70 hrs, time for 2nd oil change... wow!
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
> For those that used a fly cutter to do your instrument holes:
> Did you cut a little smaller then file up to size?
> How much bigger do you have to go for primer/paint?
> Are you happy with the look (would you do it this way again)?
>
> Thank-you,
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Instrument Holes |
I used hole saws and couldn't be happier... The holes turned out very nice,
took very little cleaning up, and all the instruments fit great... You can
see some pics here:
http://vondane.com/rv8a/wiring/wire3.htm
I just got my engine monitor for Grand Rapids Tech. I got the advanced
model EIS that does all the engine monitoring functions with 2 cyls of egt &
cht, MAP, outside air, fuel level (for one tank at a time) and pre-wired
harness for $705... more info and pictures to come...
Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A - N8VD
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy Lervold
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Instrument Holes
Norman,
I bought that $100 tool that punches the holes but ended up using my
flycutter and returning the tool. The flycutter works great as long as you
run it slow (250 rpm or less), use oil, and clamp the panel securely to
something like particle board. With just a touch of dressing with a small
scotchbrite wheel the holes came out perfectly. I would definitely do it
that way again. And no, I didn't undersize them, just went right for the
correct dimensions.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, N558RL, 70 hrs, time for 2nd oil change... wow!
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Holes |
Fly cutter:
For those of you who have heard that you should never, ever use a fly cutter
in a hand held drill:
I found that by setting the torque on my 18 volt drill motor at a low
setting and running at the slower of two speeds, I could safely use the fly
cutter without the drill press. If it catches, as it most surely will, the
fly cutter stops and the drill motor keeps turning and you don't get jerked
around in a hazardous way. I would think it would be very risky to use the
air drill with a fly cutter.
Terry
RV-8A
figuring out how to install Jon's seats
>
> Norman,
>
> I bought that $100 tool that punches the holes but ended up using my
> flycutter and returning the tool. The flycutter works great as long as you
> run it slow (250 rpm or less), use oil, and clamp the panel securely to
> something like particle board. With just a touch of dressing with a small
> scotchbrite wheel the holes came out perfectly. I would definitely do it
> that way again. And no, I didn't undersize them, just went right for the
> correct dimensions.
>
> Randy Lervold
> RV-8, N558RL, 70 hrs, time for 2nd oil change... wow!
> www.rv-8.com
> Home Wing VAF
>
>
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graydon Woods" <askgw(at)home.com> |
I have joined the list just recently in order to research a Kit Plane to
build. The RV 8 so far seems like the one. I have seen mention of a
future RV 4 place airplane. Can any tell me more about this? Also, are
there any other airplanes you would consider building that I should take
a look at.
Thanks All
GW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hurlbut" <shurlbut(at)island.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic Engine |
Van's must have discontinued selling the AEIO-360-B1F.
Its in the year 2000 catalog.
Steve Hurlbut
Comox, BC
shurlbut(at)island.net
RV-7A
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Johnson <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aerobatic Engine
>
> The Van's Accessories Catalog lists only one IO-360, and it's not an
> "aerobatic" engine. Should we be lobbying Van's to get the aerobatic
engine
> with the OEM discount? What do you give up if you use the IO-360 from
Van's
> and put a Aviat oil system on it?
>
> Steve Johnson
> RV-8
> finishing wings
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 12:40 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Aerobatic Engine
>
>
> >
> > The current Lycoming aerobatic engines come equipped with the Aviat
> > (Christen) inverted oil system, including the sump plug between the sump
> > and the oil suction screen. Older Lyc. AE's had a separate "dry sump"
> > system, which of course is still shown in their current overhaul manual!
> > The "oil pick up near the top of the engine" is breather tube, which
> > functions as such when flying inverted. IIRC, the Aviat oil system is
> > $1,500-1,700 (I don't have my old invoice handy).
> >
> > To be certain of what you want and what you'll be getting, I suggest you
> > call/email both Lycoming and Aviat to get current, straight info.
> >
> > Boyd.
> > RV-Super 6
> > Venice, FL
> >
> > Steve Hurlbut wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I want to put an aerobatic engine in my RV-7A.
> > >
> > > Should I get:
> > > 1. AEIO-360-B1F rated aerobatic engine.
> > > 2. IO-360 180 hp with the added Christen Inverted Oil System.
> > >
> > > I realize the AEIO-360-B1F has an oil pick-up near the top of the
engine
> as
> > > well as in the oil sump.
> > > What are some other differences?
> > >
> > > Is the inverted oil system in the AEIO-360-B1F all internal?
> > >
> > > What would be the advantages and disadvantages of using these 2
engines.
> > >
> > > My experience says that the IO-360 with the inverted oil system will
be
> much
> > > cheaper.
> > >
> > > Thankx
> > > Steve Hurlbut
> > > shurlbut(at)island.net
> > > RV-7A
> > > emp, wings, fuse in box
> > > Comox, BC, Canada
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans 4 Place |
> Also, are
> there any other airplanes you would consider building that I should take
> a look at.
> GW
Ahhhh, you should get lots of opinions on this one. Here's mine. Mission,
mission, mission. You want low and slow? Land on water? Fast and high
with long runways? Aerobatics? Cross country? Do you like to see the
runway ahead of you? Do you like to sit next to your passenger? Do you
want passengers? How much do you want to spend? How long do you want to
build? Do you have the funds to trade money for quick build options? Is
the plane for show? All these and more have to de identified and then you
pick the plane that fits your mission
In my search, I decided that Van's planes have the most versatility. They
have the highest ratio between stall speed and top end and are capable of
the aerobatics I want to do. They fly fast enough to get you from here to
there in a reasonable amount of time but don't need Kennedy International to
land and take off. They are also made of metal...my preference.
Ross
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
Your gut feeling is right - go with the RV-8! :)
My preference is the RV-8 (that's why I started building one).
I did a survey a few weeks back and it seem that most people that wants a
nose wheel seems to like the RV-7A and most people that likes tail wheel
seems to like the RV-7 and RV-8 just about the same. I like the side to side
visibility better in the tandem configuration - *particularly as a
passenger* plus (of the Van's series) the RV-8 offers the most room for each
of the occupants.
Speed, range and handling differences between all of Van's aircraft is minor
so I wouldn't even let that be a deciding factor. Whatever you choose I wish
you the best of luck.
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Graydon Woods
Sent: July 18, 2001 7:39 PM
Subject: RV-List: Vans 4 Place
I have joined the list just recently in order to research a Kit Plane to
build. The RV 8 so far seems like the one. I have seen mention of a
future RV 4 place airplane. Can any tell me more about this? Also, are
there any other airplanes you would consider building that I should take
a look at.
Thanks All
GW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com> |
| Subject: | Aeroflash Lights, Part Two... |
After reading the replies to my postings about Aeroflash and Whelen lights, and
searching the archives, I get the impression that the Aeroflash units are ok
for use by homebuilders...but that it might depend on the feelings of the FAA
inspector who signs the
airplane off. I'm planning to do some IFR & night flying, what happened to anyone
out there who installed the Aeroflash units for similar use and had their
plane inspected? Did the inspector pass 'em, or not?
Semper Fi
John
RV-6...back to dem ribs again, this time on the right wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hurlbut" <shurlbut(at)island.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans 4 Place |
I talked with Van's at the Arlington airshow.
The 4 place aircraft is in the works and is about 2 years from production.
It will be a low wing design.
Steve Hurlbut
Comox, BC
shurlbut(at)island.net
RV-7A
----- Original Message -----
From: Graydon Woods <askgw(at)home.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 4:39 PM
Subject: RV-List: Vans 4 Place
>
> I have joined the list just recently in order to research a Kit Plane to
> build. The RV 8 so far seems like the one. I have seen mention of a
> future RV 4 place airplane. Can any tell me more about this? Also, are
> there any other airplanes you would consider building that I should take
> a look at.
>
> Thanks All
> GW
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelsonhoffrv9(at)aol.com |
Hey- I'll look for your plane when I'm there. It will be easier to compare
notes with a "human" plane.
Curt Hoffman Loveland, OH
RV-9A (N912WK reserved)
Working on Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Oberst" <jfoberst(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil line dificulty |
Jim, I had the same problem, and solved it by getting a hose made with a 45
degree fitting on one end.
Jim Oberst
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 2:57 PM
Subject: RV-List: Oil line dificulty
>
> I don't have enough room to put the oil cooler line on the back of my
> engine. I have a spin on oil filter adapter which precludes me from using
> any "normal" hose end. The fitting is in the engine (straight fitting),
but
> the oil filter is in the way (just barely) precluding me from using the
> typical #8 hose. The only solution I can find is to use a teflon line
which
> is smaller OD (same ID) and thus has a smaller fitting.
>
> jim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Van's Banquet/RV-list table |
Dear gang,
The bad news is that I will not be at 'Kosh for the banquet. Consequently,
I will not be able to bring name tags and set up a special RV-listers'
table. The funny thing is that this year's response for tickets and name
tags never exceeded 4 or 5 people. I guess those who attend will have to
search out fellow listers and try to get a table when the dinner bells are
chimed.
The good news is that I hope to make it out to Idaho this weekend and see
some of God's country, and meet the wonderful, young fellow who built my
RV-4. I am naming it the Viagra Special ( do I need to give you the reason
for that ?) I may be able to stop at 'Kosh for a day on my return so I may
run into some of the gang.
Louis
Louis I. Willig
larywil(at)home.com
RV-4, N180PF, 130 hrs. and producing much pleasure...
I0-360, Hartzell C/S .....210 mph or 2800 ft per min..take your pick.
(610) 668-4964
Penn Valley, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RickD" <rickd(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans 4 Place |
I also talked to guys in the booth at Arlington about the rumored 4 place
and they were surprisingly forthright about the project. They said work on
it had been underway for about six months and it looked like it would take
18 to 24 more months before it was ready. When asked if it was going to be
more like the RV-9 or like the RV-7, the guy in the booth indicated that it
would be more like the RV-9 (read: non-aerobatic).
Rick Davis
Black Diamond, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Hurlbut" <shurlbut(at)island.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Vans 4 Place
>
> I talked with Van's at the Arlington airshow.
> The 4 place aircraft is in the works and is about 2 years from production.
> It will be a low wing design.
>
> Steve Hurlbut
> Comox, BC
> shurlbut(at)island.net
> RV-7A
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Graydon Woods <askgw(at)home.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 4:39 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Vans 4 Place
>
>
> >
> > I have joined the list just recently in order to research a Kit Plane to
> > build. The RV 8 so far seems like the one. I have seen mention of a
> > future RV 4 place airplane. Can any tell me more about this? Also, are
> > there any other airplanes you would consider building that I should take
> > a look at.
> >
> > Thanks All
> > GW
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic Engine |
I checked again. The AEIO-360-B1F is mentioned in the text of the on-line
accessories catalog, but only the EA IO-360-A1B6 is listed as an ordering
option. I must confess that I don't know anything about the AEIO-360-B1F
and why it's only 180 HP instead of 200.
Steve Johnson
RV-8
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Hurlbut" <shurlbut(at)island.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aerobatic Engine
>
> Van's must have discontinued selling the AEIO-360-B1F.
> Its in the year 2000 catalog.
>
> Steve Hurlbut
> Comox, BC
> shurlbut(at)island.net
> RV-7A
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Stephen Johnson <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 1:45 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Aerobatic Engine
>
>
> >
> > The Van's Accessories Catalog lists only one IO-360, and it's not an
> > "aerobatic" engine. Should we be lobbying Van's to get the aerobatic
> engine
> > with the OEM discount? What do you give up if you use the IO-360 from
> Van's
> > and put a Aviat oil system on it?
> >
> > Steve Johnson
> > RV-8
> > finishing wings
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 12:40 PM
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Aerobatic Engine
> >
> >
> > >
> > > The current Lycoming aerobatic engines come equipped with the Aviat
> > > (Christen) inverted oil system, including the sump plug between the
sump
> > > and the oil suction screen. Older Lyc. AE's had a separate "dry sump"
> > > system, which of course is still shown in their current overhaul
manual!
> > > The "oil pick up near the top of the engine" is breather tube, which
> > > functions as such when flying inverted. IIRC, the Aviat oil system is
> > > $1,500-1,700 (I don't have my old invoice handy).
> > >
> > > To be certain of what you want and what you'll be getting, I suggest
you
> > > call/email both Lycoming and Aviat to get current, straight info.
> > >
> > > Boyd.
> > > RV-Super 6
> > > Venice, FL
> > >
> > > Steve Hurlbut wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I want to put an aerobatic engine in my RV-7A.
> > > >
> > > > Should I get:
> > > > 1. AEIO-360-B1F rated aerobatic engine.
> > > > 2. IO-360 180 hp with the added Christen Inverted Oil System.
> > > >
> > > > I realize the AEIO-360-B1F has an oil pick-up near the top of the
> engine
> > as
> > > > well as in the oil sump.
> > > > What are some other differences?
> > > >
> > > > Is the inverted oil system in the AEIO-360-B1F all internal?
> > > >
> > > > What would be the advantages and disadvantages of using these 2
> engines.
> > > >
> > > > My experience says that the IO-360 with the inverted oil system will
> be
> > much
> > > > cheaper.
> > > >
> > > > Thankx
> > > > Steve Hurlbut
> > > > shurlbut(at)island.net
> > > > RV-7A
> > > > emp, wings, fuse in box
> > > > Comox, BC, Canada
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | New!! LOM M332A available |
rv3-list(at)matronics.com, rv4-list(at)matronics.com
Hi All,
A new LOM M332A with all paperwork and tool kit is available.
If you are interested, contact Rich Trickle at (805) 483-8868.
He says he will take a new, or low time, Lyc O-235 or O-290 in exchange.
Or a low to mid-time Lyc. O-320.
Or $8,000 cash outright.
Please contact Rich Trickle directly.
Jim Ayers
RV-3 N47RV LOM M332A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Headsets Jacks |
In a message dated 7/18/01 10:06:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
nhunger(at)sprint.ca writes:
<< I'd like to poll the audience. The big dilemma is whether the headset
jacks should go in the luggage compartment or low on the panel. So if
you are flying, where did you put your jacks and if you were building
again where would you put them? >>
At the rear end of the armrests definitely! I did and I would again.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Dimmer Control |
In a message dated 7/18/01 1:11:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
nhunger(at)sprint.ca writes:
<< Is there another dimmer out there that does allow full power at max
bright? >>
Most of the voltage regulators drop a little just by virtue of being a
semiconductor (and this is the source of the heat) but it shouldn't be too
much. You will find that you will use it set around 1/2 to 2/3 max when
flying at night. I think that there was a series of articles recently in one
of the kitplane magazines (author was Jim Weir) in which he discussed the
transistor selection criteria for low voltage drop on his circuits. Frankly,
I think that the Bob Nucholls dimmer is the best value for the money ($20 I
think). I put two of them in a Wheeler Express.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil line dificulty |
In a message dated 7/18/01 12:55:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com writes:
<< I don't have enough room to put the oil cooler line on the back of my
engine. I have a spin on oil filter adapter which precludes me from using
any "normal" hose end. The fitting is in the engine (straight fitting), but
the oil filter is in the way (just barely) precluding me from using the
typical #8 hose. >>
I've got the #8 straight flare fitting in the engine and the Aeroquip 45 deg
#8 fitting on the hose and it works fine.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV's and IFR |
In a message dated 7/17/01 8:49:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Owens(at)aerovironment.com writes:
<< If I remember, you have a well loaded panel (and a very nice one at that).
What do you have installed and how do you use it? >>
Laird-
I am set up for and fly day and night VFR only. I have vacuum gyros (with no
backup system), a single GPS/Comm and the Navaid A/P. The A/P is there to
make single occupant long cross country workload easier and in a pinch could
save my bacon in unintentional IMC. Just a prudent strategy IMO. I am not
IFR rated.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aeroflash Lights, Part Two... |
In a message dated 7/18/2001 7:39:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
jwlawson(at)hargray.com writes:
> After reading the replies to my postings about Aeroflash and Whelen lights,
> and searching the archives, I get the impression that the Aeroflash units
> are ok for use by homebuilders...but that it might depend on the feelings
> of the FAA inspector who signs the
> airplane off. I'm planning to do some IFR & night flying, what happened to
> anyone out there who installed the Aeroflash units for similar use and had
> their plane inspected?
its a certified part for certified aircraft so how could they not sign you off
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic Engine |
After downloading the specs from Lycoming, I have to conclude the engine
listed in Van's catalog should be the AEIO-360-A1B6 which is an aerobatic
engine. It looks like the AEIO-360-B1F has lower compression pistons (8.5
vs. 8.7).
Steve Johnson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aerobatic Engine
>
> I checked again. The AEIO-360-B1F is mentioned in the text of the on-line
> accessories catalog, but only the EA IO-360-A1B6 is listed as an ordering
> option. I must confess that I don't know anything about the AEIO-360-B1F
> and why it's only 180 HP instead of 200.
>
> Steve Johnson
> RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Aerobatic Engine, and IO-360 for aerobatics |
There's a bunch of differences between the 180 and 200-hp Lycomings. Very
few parts are the same. The cylinders on the 200-hp models ("angle-valve")
are much different- they have hemispherical combustion chambers with angled
valves; the induction system is tuned; oil cooling squirters, etc... The
aerobatic engine Vans sold was a 180-hp model, and if I recall it went for
$27-28,000. An aerobatic 200-hp engine would probably run $35,000 or so.
I bet Vans could get you one of the AEIO-360s if you asked nice...
especially if you got 4 or 5 other guys/gals to order them together at the
same time...
I've been trying to muddle through some Lycoming service bulletins and it
appears to me that the crankshaft on the IO-360-A1B6 (the 200-hp engine Vans
sells) isn't beefy enough for aerobatics, and so converting it wouldn't be
an option. Whenever I make a statement like this someone more knowledgeable
corrects me, so I'm issuing the following disclaimer: I'm probably wrong.
But, according to SSP-291 dated April 1991, the only IO-360s that can be
converted to aerobatic use are: A1B6D, A1C, A1D6, A2A, A2B, A3B6D, B1B, B1D,
B1E, B2F6. Some of these are 200 and some are 180 hp models. Something to
keep in mind, I guess. I'm using the IO-360-A1B6 so I only have the IO-360
overhaul manual but before I converted (for instance) an O-360-A1A I'd cross
check and make sure the crank flange is beefy enough for aerobatics- it
might not be, since they figure its going in a carbureted engine (but I
don't know either way).
Also, does anyone know if the crankcase is the same for the parallel and
angle-valve engines? Looks to me from the parts catalog like it is... just
curious.
Matthew
8A fuse babbler
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aerobatic Engine
After downloading the specs from Lycoming, I have to conclude the engine
listed in Van's catalog should be the AEIO-360-A1B6 which is an aerobatic
engine. It looks like the AEIO-360-B1F has lower compression pistons (8.5
vs. 8.7).
Steve Johnson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aerobatic Engine
>
> I checked again. The AEIO-360-B1F is mentioned in the text of the on-line
> accessories catalog, but only the EA IO-360-A1B6 is listed as an ordering
> option. I must confess that I don't know anything about the AEIO-360-B1F
> and why it's only 180 HP instead of 200.
>
> Steve Johnson
> RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hurlbut" <shurlbut(at)island.net> |
| Subject: | Manifold Pressure |
Any reason to put a manifold pressure gauge in a fixed pitch IO-360?
Steve Hurlbut
Comox, BC
shurlbut(at)island.net
RV-7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Holes |
> For those of you who have heard that you should never, ever use a fly
cutter
> in a hand held drill:
>
> I found that by setting the torque on my 18 volt drill motor at a low
> setting and running at the slower of two speeds, I could safely use the
fly
> cutter without the drill press
I'd add this tip to that (got it from Eustace Bowhay): replace the short
pilot bit with a standard length drill bit. Then back up the piece you're
cutting with a thick piece of wood. This helps keep it from going
off-center.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~250 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Garmin Database update problems |
Listers:
Has anyone updated their Garmin GPS with success. I have been trying to
load the new database for a Garmin 95xl. The software included
recognizes the GPS but then advised that no files were found for the
connected GPS. I called Garmin and they advised that the disk must have
been mislabled. When the replacement disk arrived I found the same
error message and exactly the same unsuccesful attempt at loading the
new database. Garmin has a problem obviously. Any suggestions? I have
tried the procedure on three computers, all with the same results. It
is not the computer!
Dave Aronson
RV4 N504RV
Fairings and cowling finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel Estrada F." <dani_estrada(at)infosel.net.mx> |
| Subject: | ELECTRIC TRIM COVER PLATE... |
Hi..
The drawing #5pp says:
Use K1100-06 Platenuts on E-615PP reinforce plate and AN507-6R6 Screws to
attach E-616PP Cover Plate to E-615PP and use AN426AD3-3.5 rivet to mount
platenuts...the question is:
I know I have to dimple the reinforce plate to accept the K1100-06 platenuts
but..do I need to dimple the center hole?..I mean the hole where the screw
must be screwed...
Hope you can understand what I want to ask..(my english is not so good)
Thanks again
Daniel EStrada
RV7A (going to OSH...!!!)
Mexico City
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Burch" <rv6man(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil line dificulty |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 3:57 PM
Subject: RV-List: Oil line dificulty
>
> I don't have enough room to put the oil cooler line on the back of my
> engine. I have a spin on oil filter adapter which precludes me from using
> any "normal" hose end. The fitting is in the engine (straight fitting),
but
> the oil filter is in the way (just barely) precluding me from using the
> typical #8 hose. The only solution I can find is to use a teflon line
which
> is smaller OD (same ID) and thus has a smaller fitting.
>
> jim
>
> This is simple. It takes a 45 fitting in the case pointed down toward the
right tire.Trust me I do this for a living.TerryB.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aerobatic Engine |
The "B" model (-B1F) IO-360's are 180hp (typically) parallel valve engines.
The other IO-360's are 200hp (typically) angle valve types. Big difference
and admittedly confusing.
Greg
>
>
> After downloading the specs from Lycoming, I have to conclude
> the engine
> listed in Van's catalog should be the AEIO-360-A1B6 which is
> an aerobatic
> engine. It looks like the AEIO-360-B1F has lower compression
> pistons (8.5
> vs. 8.7).
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV's and IFR |
I'm instrument rated and always intended to use my RV-6A primarily for
IFR cross
country flights. To date I've flown my airplane 82.4 hours, 1.9 in
actual IMC,
and have flown seven instrument approaches in actual weather. With all
humility, I can say that my RV-6A is the best equipped for IFR
operations of any
RV I have ever seen in real life or photographs. It is equipped with an
S-Tec
System 50 two-axis autopilot, among many other things. I say this
because I think that single-pilot IFR is, arguably, the most difficult
of the tasks commonly performed by a pilot, and it's great to have an
airplane equipped and designed in a way that makes IFR operations,
especially instrument approaches, as easy as possible. Admittedly, it
all costs money, adds weight, and diminishes aerobatic capability, so
each of us has to make the choices that are best for himself.
My observations, for what they're worth, are: (a) the RV-6A is more
difficult to
fly on instruments than the Piper Archers and Warriors I used to fly
because it
will depart from straight and level flight more quickly, but it is
certainly
controllable by a proficient pilot; (b) I think it is especially
important for one to maintain one's currency in his/her RV through
frequent practice approaches (something I haven't done conscientiously
in recent months); (c) a two-axis autopilot is great, but I would say
that it's only marginally more useful than a wing leveler; (d) cockpit
organization is more difficult than in an airplane with a control yoke
because one needs to find a different place for the approach plate and
timer; and (e) good panel and cockpit lighting are essential for night
IFR operations, especially approaches flown with your approach plate on
a kneeboard.
Importantly, I deliberately designed my airplane so that everything
would be in my hands to the extent possible, so that I wouldn't have to
distract myself during IFR operations moving my hands and looking for or
operating switches, levers, or whatever. Thus, I have flap, autopilot
disconnect, PTT, and landing light switches in my stick grip along with
a coolie hat switch for roll and pitch trim. My radio stack is directly
above my throttle, prop, carburetor heat, and mixture controls. My
transponder is a KT76C so I don't have to turn a knob for each digit of
my squawk code. As I fly the approach with my right hand on the stick
grip and my left on the throttle, everything I need is at hand, so to
speak. I commend this approach to anyone who is interested in IFR
flight with his/her RV.
Finally, I hasten to add that I don't agree with Mike Seager that RVs
shouldn't be equipped for or flown IFR. My airplane is heavy, 1184
basic weight, but it was a tradeoff I made deliberately, and I'm glad I
did. I agree with the observation made by one of the others who
responded to this posting that an IFR-equipped airplane is a safer one.
I often reflect on the proposition that, if Bill and Jeremy Benedict had
had IFR capability in the RV in which they bought the farm, they might
still be alive. Something to think about, anyway.
Best wishes,
Jack Abell
John Jessen wrote:
> People are clearly using it for IFR and recommending a wing leveler for those
times it gets busy. So.... if anyone has any final thoughts, please let me
know.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graydon Woods" <askgw(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans 4 Place |
Ross, you are correct "Mission, mission, mission". My main mission would be
Cross country. 4 place would be the preferred however am concerned about
increase in building time. I do not want to select a plane that takes me so
much time/work that you loss the enjoyment factor of building it. So a 2
place may be the best choice. The Van's kits seem exceptional in there
completeness and builder help like this e-mail list. That's why I was
interested in the Van's 4 place.
Steve and Rick both commented on that the Vans 4 place is 2 years away and I
would like to begin building by the end of the year so thats out.
Are commented that Vans gives you complete choice of configurations between
the RV-7/ 7A and RV-8/8a. I also like the tandem configuration. The only
time I have in tandems has been as a passanger and I found it most
enjoyable. As for nose gear or tail, it would depend on handling durring
landing and takeoff. Any more comments on this would be appreciated.
Steve I am going to give Express Aircraft a serious look, how about the
Glasair's did they have a pressence at Arlington.
Thanks All
GW
> In my search, I decided that Van's planes have the most versatility. They
> have the highest ratio between stall speed and top end and are capable of
> the aerobatics I want to do.
> Ross
> RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold Pressure |
In a message dated 7/19/01 2:33:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
shurlbut(at)island.net writes:
> Any reason to put a manifold pressure gauge in a fixed pitch IO-360?
>
> Steve Hurlbut
> Comox, BC
> shurlbut(at)island.net
> RV-7A
>
Yes. The MP gauge combined with a tachometer, sensitive altimeter, and OAT
gauge can be used to accurately determine your actual power setting. This
can give you an indication of the health of your engine, and whether your
prop is over or under pitched for your application. Also, my understanding
is that the MP gauge can give an early indication of carb icing, not that
carb ice is an issue with an injected engine.
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ENewton57(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ELECTRIC TRIM COVER PLATE... |
In a message dated 7/19/01 1:56:44 AM Central Daylight Time,
dani_estrada(at)infosel.net.mx writes:
<< Use K1100-06 Platenuts on E-615PP reinforce plate and AN507-6R6 Screws to
attach E-616PP Cover Plate to E-615PP and use AN426AD3-3.5 rivet to mount
platenuts...the question is:
I know I have to dimple the reinforce plate to accept the K1100-06 platenuts
but..do I need to dimple the center hole?..I mean the hole where the screw
must be screwed... >>
Hi Daniel,
Yes you do. The screw is a flush screw. If you look at the K1100-06
nutplate you will see that it has a dimple already built in where the screw
goes. This is to allow for the dimple you will put in the reinforcement
plate. You can get a dimple die that is sized for the #6 screw. If you
want, you can countersink this if the metal is too thick to dimple.
Happy building,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, Mississippi
RV-6A N57ME (Reserved) (Engine Baffles)
http://www.ericsrv6a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. H. Phillips" <jhphillips(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV's and IFR |
John,
Do you fly from the right seat? If so do you fly cross-cockpit or do you
have instruments on the right side of the panel.
As a former T-37 IP we always flew from the right seat, cross-cockpit, and
never problems flying IFR, but I have seen some RV6s that put instruments on
right side.
John H. Phillips
Boone, Boone & Phillips, L.L.P.
Dallas, Texas
----- Original Message -----
From: "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 2:01 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's and IFR
As I fly the approach with my right hand on the stick
> grip and my left on the throttle, everything I need is at hand, so to
> speak. I commend this approach to anyone who is interested in IFR
> flight with his/her RV.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | ELECTRIC TRIM COVER PLATE... |
The short answer is Yes Daniel. As you said, the drawings call for AN507-6R6
screws. These are countersink screws. If you don't have #6 dimple dies yet,
you can easily dimple the holes with the 1/8" dimple dies. Just use your
deburr bit to touch up the hole for a nice fit for the #6 screws.
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Daniel Estrada
F.
Sent: July 19, 2001 2:23 AM
Subject: RV-List: ELECTRIC TRIM COVER PLATE...
Hi..
The drawing #5pp says:
Use K1100-06 Platenuts on E-615PP reinforce plate and AN507-6R6 Screws to
attach E-616PP Cover Plate to E-615PP and use AN426AD3-3.5 rivet to mount
platenuts...the question is:
I know I have to dimple the reinforce plate to accept the K1100-06 platenuts
but..do I need to dimple the center hole?..I mean the hole where the screw
must be screwed...
Hope you can understand what I want to ask..(my english is not so good)
Thanks again
Daniel EStrada
RV7A (going to OSH...!!!)
Mexico City
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | aerobatic engines |
Listers I would suggest that if your not going to be
doing competitive or extreme (Shawn Tucker, Patty
Wagstaff) aerobatics that the non aerobatic engine
will suit your rv just fine. For the most part we
avoid going negative g and just doing the sportsman
aerobatics i.e. loops rolls split s's or more commonly
any maneuver that keeps you positive g. The standard
narrow deck or wide deck lycomings work just fine. The
extra 10 or fifteen thousand dollars you save will buy
lot's of gas for the cross country trips you know we
all want to take. If you are one that likes the
occasional negative g then I would suggest putting the
chritian inverted oil and fuel system on your airchine
and go for it. You still may loose a little oil in the
negative arena but the engine will remain healthy for
you. But if you are one to go to the extreme envelope
of performance then you are gonna need that aerobatic
engine in your rv. Some of you may think that the
aerobatic engine is more reliable than the non
aerobatic counterpart, not so I say as this engine has
more parts and will have to be inspected more
frequently from a maintenance point of view. Do what
you want say what you will it's your airplane, it is a
decision you will have to make on your own I just
wanted to share my thoughts on this as we on this list
get on these threads sometimes that become ropes
before long and as such I wanted to get my take on the
list before the flames start flying again.
I'll be your daisy (ha ha ha)
Glenn WIlliams
do nor archive
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic Engine, and IO-360 for aerobatics |
Matthew,
Thanks for the information. The engine in Van's catalog is listed as "EA
IO360-A1B6" which I assumed was a misprint. I'm about a year away from
ordering the engine, but I sure want to get the right one when the time
comes. The following is a quote from the Lycoming web site:
"Most Lycoming engines are termed "wet sump" engines because oil is stored
internally in a sump at the bottom of the crankcase. When the engine is
inverted, the oil will be in the top of the crankcase rather than in the oil
sump. To maintain a continuous flow of oil during inverted flight, an oil
pick-up line must be provided near the top of the engine as well as in the
oil sump. Lycoming aerobatic engines carrying an AEIO designation use
inverted oil system hardware to adapt oil pickup lines at the top and bottom
of the wet sump engine."
It sounds lile the AEIO engines don't require the external Christen inverted
oil system. The beefy crank flange is required for stressful gyroscopic
maneuvers like snap rolls. I don't plan to do aggressive snap rolls myself.
All of this should be made clear with a little investigation. There should
be a bunch of us RV-8 builders getting ready for an engine, and it looks
like the AEIO-360-A1B6 would be the best choice for the 200 HP version.
Steve Johnson
RV-8
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Gelber" <mgelber(at)pacbell.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 11:25 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Aerobatic Engine, and IO-360 for aerobatics
>
> There's a bunch of differences between the 180 and 200-hp Lycomings. Very
> few parts are the same. The cylinders on the 200-hp models
("angle-valve")
> are much different- they have hemispherical combustion chambers with
angled
> valves; the induction system is tuned; oil cooling squirters, etc... The
> aerobatic engine Vans sold was a 180-hp model, and if I recall it went for
> $27-28,000. An aerobatic 200-hp engine would probably run $35,000 or so.
>
> I bet Vans could get you one of the AEIO-360s if you asked nice...
> especially if you got 4 or 5 other guys/gals to order them together at the
> same time...
>
> I've been trying to muddle through some Lycoming service bulletins and it
> appears to me that the crankshaft on the IO-360-A1B6 (the 200-hp engine
Vans
> sells) isn't beefy enough for aerobatics, and so converting it wouldn't be
> an option. Whenever I make a statement like this someone more
knowledgeable
> corrects me, so I'm issuing the following disclaimer: I'm probably wrong.
> But, according to SSP-291 dated April 1991, the only IO-360s that can be
> converted to aerobatic use are: A1B6D, A1C, A1D6, A2A, A2B, A3B6D, B1B,
B1D,
> B1E, B2F6. Some of these are 200 and some are 180 hp models. Something to
> keep in mind, I guess. I'm using the IO-360-A1B6 so I only have the
IO-360
> overhaul manual but before I converted (for instance) an O-360-A1A I'd
cross
> check and make sure the crank flange is beefy enough for aerobatics- it
> might not be, since they figure its going in a carbureted engine (but I
> don't know either way).
>
> Also, does anyone know if the crankcase is the same for the parallel and
> angle-valve engines? Looks to me from the parts catalog like it is...
just
> curious.
>
> Matthew
> 8A fuse babbler
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic Engine, and IO-360 for aerobatics |
The Lycoming aerobatic engines come with the Aviat (Christen) "external"
inverted oil hardware and plumbing but are given Lycoming part #'s.
When inverted, the breather port becomes the oil pick-up line and the
right sump drain line becomes the breather line. Since there is a plug
in front of a shortened oil suction screen, the left sump drain is the
oil pick-up line. The oil flow between inverted and upright flight is
controlled by the oil valve, which is firewall mounted. The air/oil
separator is mounted on the rear right side of the engine mount frame.
If my quirky scanner decides to fire up one more time I can send you a
diagram of the system, off List.
Boyd.
Stephen Johnson wrote:
>
>
> Matthew,
>
> Thanks for the information. The engine in Van's catalog is listed as "EA
> IO360-A1B6" which I assumed was a misprint. I'm about a year away from
> ordering the engine, but I sure want to get the right one when the time
> comes. The following is a quote from the Lycoming web site:
>
> "Most Lycoming engines are termed "wet sump" engines because oil is stored
> internally in a sump at the bottom of the crankcase. When the engine is
> inverted, the oil will be in the top of the crankcase rather than in the oil
> sump. To maintain a continuous flow of oil during inverted flight, an oil
> pick-up line must be provided near the top of the engine as well as in the
> oil sump. Lycoming aerobatic engines carrying an AEIO designation use
> inverted oil system hardware to adapt oil pickup lines at the top and bottom
> of the wet sump engine."
>
> It sounds lile the AEIO engines don't require the external Christen inverted
> oil system. The beefy crank flange is required for stressful gyroscopic
> maneuvers like snap rolls. I don't plan to do aggressive snap rolls myself.
> All of this should be made clear with a little investigation. There should
> be a bunch of us RV-8 builders getting ready for an engine, and it looks
> like the AEIO-360-A1B6 would be the best choice for the 200 HP version.
>
> Steve Johnson
> RV-8
>snip<
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Garmin Database update problems |
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Garmin Database update problems
Thread-Index: AcEQJlloj+JTqFxsQNKnLfrew0B/rgANiMZg
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
Ugh. I know what you mean. I have a Garmin update subscription and
every time I upload to my GPS III Pilot I have problems and it turns
into a 2-3 evening ordeal, which basically amounts to trying to upload
the new database over and over until it successfully completes. And my
occupation as a computer geek hasn't helped any. My suggestion is to
send the unit and disk in and let them deal with it. And ask them to
update the firmware inside the unit to be current while they have it.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 178 hours
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Aronson [mailto:aronsond(at)pacbell.net]
> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 12:51 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Garmin Database update problems
>
>
>
> Listers:
> Has anyone updated their Garmin GPS with success. I have
> been trying to
> load the new database for a Garmin 95xl. The software included
> recognizes the GPS but then advised that no files were found for the
> connected GPS. I called Garmin and they advised that the
> disk must have
> been mislabled. When the replacement disk arrived I found the same
> error message and exactly the same unsuccesful attempt at loading the
> new database. Garmin has a problem obviously. Any
> suggestions? I have
> tried the procedure on three computers, all with the same results. It
> is not the computer!
> Dave Aronson
> RV4 N504RV
> Fairings and cowling finish
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> |
I got some pix from R. Marvin Johnson the other day... He is taxi testing
his RV-8A and is looking forward to flying it soon...
You can see the pix here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rv8list/files/ -
Just look for the folder called R. Marvin Johnson's RV-8A...
-Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold Pressure |
Sure comes in handy when changing to a CS prop. Having the MP installed made
the prop swap much easier.
Gary Zilik
RV-6(3 Wheeler) O-360-A1A/Hartzell
KBoatri144(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/19/01 2:33:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> shurlbut(at)island.net writes:
>
> > Any reason to put a manifold pressure gauge in a fixed pitch IO-360?
> >
> > Steve Hurlbut
> > Comox, BC
> > shurlbut(at)island.net
> > RV-7A
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Building Speed
Thread-Index: AcEP2FCyNZyWGtjdQzCP0Fx/zA1zpAAjKXRQ
| From: | "Todd Wenzel" <TWenzel(at)hsdinc.com> |
I also removed the parts from the paper bags and placed them in several
thin plastic boxes from Flambeau (about $3 from Home Depot) that have
moveable dividers. I label each section "Bag xxx". All but the largest
"bag" parts fit. The parts that don't fit (only a couple) I keep in
their original bags on a shelf. Also, any bag that contains rivets will
have its rivets put into one centralized container organized by rivet
type and size. I find this works very well since all the parts are now
visible and if I need something from a particular bag, I can find its
contents quickly.
Todd Wenzel (really not that anal normally)
RV-8AQB - wings
I took all the parts out of the paper bags when I received the tail
kit...
Are
RV-8 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic Engine, and IO-360 for aerobatics |
In a message dated 7/18/01 9:30:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mgelber(at)pacbell.net writes:
> Also, does anyone know if the crankcase is the same for the parallel and
> angle-valve engines? Looks to me from the parts catalog like it is... just
> curious.
>
> Matthew
> 8A fuse babbler
>
>
I was told by a premeir engine builder the 0-360 wide deck boss mount cases
are all the same.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aeroflash Lights, Part Two... |
Never had a problem, but, then again, I am probably not the best one to
answer this.
Kidding aside, when I was researching getting the aeroflash units I looked
up FAR 23.1401, which is about anti-collision lights, and found that these
units meet most of the requirements when taken at face value.
One has to remember that when this reg was written aircraft used mostly
rotating lights and not strobes. AS we all know strobes have the ability of
being seen much further at a lower intensity than the old rotating beacon.
Keep that in mind when reading the intensity requirements of the reg.
Paragraph (f) of 1401 talks about minimum effective intensities for
anitcollision lights. From 0 to 5 degrees abouve or below the horizontal
plane of the light it is supposed to produce 400 candlepower. From what
everyone says the Aeroflash units don't produce that. When I built my -8A
out in Hawaii I didn't have access to a light intensity meter. Luckily
there was another aircraft of a friend of mine that had the Aerofalsh units
already installed. So I observed his aircraft take off and watched him until
he was out of site verses another aircraft (I think it was a Bonanza) with
Whelen strobes. From personal observations, FWIW, I could not see any
difference in the two and could see both for approximately 10-15 miles.
With that observation I had no problem in buying and installing the
Aeroflash units. Admittedly, not a very scientific way of doing it but it
convinced me and the Inspector that signed off my plane.
FYI, Order 8130.2D clearly states that the Inspector certificating the
aircraft may not have worked on it, so I also had to convince an inspector
that what I built was safe. We did get into it over a few issues, some I
won and some I lost.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
>From: John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Aeroflash Lights, Part Two...
>Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 20:30:08 -0500
>
>
>After reading the replies to my postings about Aeroflash and Whelen lights,
>and searching the archives, I get the impression that the Aeroflash units
>are ok for use by homebuilders...but that it might depend on the feelings
>of the FAA inspector who signs the
>airplane off. I'm planning to do some IFR & night flying, what happened to
>anyone out there who installed the Aeroflash units for similar use and had
>their plane inspected? Did the inspector pass 'em, or not?
>
>Semper Fi
>John
>RV-6...back to dem ribs again, this time on the right wing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin" <6430(at)axion.net> |
Glen,
I just heard that Tim McAvoy was killed yesterday while landing
with wheels down on Cultus Lake.
Remember working on his Huey ?
An 18 yr. old girl boating , pulled out 3 guys, but Tim could not
be revived....
I'll call you tonight,
Pop.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin" <6430(at)axion.net> |
Sorry, hit wrong address on that post.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | Vans 4 Place (long answer) |
Very good post John--Thanks.
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold Pressure |
In a message dated 07/18/2001 11:33:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
shurlbut(at)island.net writes:
> Any reason to put a manifold pressure gauge in a fixed pitch IO-360?
>
> Steve Hurlbut
> Comox, BC
> shurlbut(at)island.net
> RV-7A
>
You can set the manifold pressure for cruise, and not chase the RPM (tach)
after you level off.
Jim Ayers
RV-3 N47RV LOM M332A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
Another 4-seater is the Hollman Stallion:
http://www.aircraftdesigns.com/stallion/index.html
This plane hasn't gotten tons of press but Hollman has an excellent
reputation so I'd seriously consider it if I wanted a 4-seater and I had the
money (or was willing to spend money I didn't have yet!). And it would be a
little more unique than an RV or a Lancair- I don't think that many have
been built.
Matthew
8A fuse- hey! After 1.5 years and a jillion hours it finally looks like a
quickbuild!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic Engine, and IO-360 for aerobatics |
Thanks for the info. So, bottom line, is the standard IO-360 with Christen
system installed, the same as the AEIO-360 without the beefed up crank
flange which I don't need?
Steve Johnson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aerobatic Engine, and IO-360 for aerobatics
>
> The Lycoming aerobatic engines come with the Aviat (Christen) "external"
> inverted oil hardware and plumbing but are given Lycoming part #'s.
> When inverted, the breather port becomes the oil pick-up line and the
> right sump drain line becomes the breather line. Since there is a plug
> in front of a shortened oil suction screen, the left sump drain is the
> oil pick-up line. The oil flow between inverted and upright flight is
> controlled by the oil valve, which is firewall mounted. The air/oil
> separator is mounted on the rear right side of the engine mount frame.
>
> If my quirky scanner decides to fire up one more time I can send you a
> diagram of the system, off List.
>
> Boyd.
>
> Stephen Johnson wrote:
> >
> >
> > Matthew,
> >
> > Thanks for the information. The engine in Van's catalog is listed as
"EA
> > IO360-A1B6" which I assumed was a misprint. I'm about a year away from
> > ordering the engine, but I sure want to get the right one when the time
> > comes. The following is a quote from the Lycoming web site:
> >
> > "Most Lycoming engines are termed "wet sump" engines because oil is
stored
> > internally in a sump at the bottom of the crankcase. When the engine is
> > inverted, the oil will be in the top of the crankcase rather than in the
oil
> > sump. To maintain a continuous flow of oil during inverted flight, an
oil
> > pick-up line must be provided near the top of the engine as well as in
the
> > oil sump. Lycoming aerobatic engines carrying an AEIO designation use
> > inverted oil system hardware to adapt oil pickup lines at the top and
bottom
> > of the wet sump engine."
> >
> > It sounds lile the AEIO engines don't require the external Christen
inverted
> > oil system. The beefy crank flange is required for stressful gyroscopic
> > maneuvers like snap rolls. I don't plan to do aggressive snap rolls
myself.
> > All of this should be made clear with a little investigation. There
should
> > be a bunch of us RV-8 builders getting ready for an engine, and it
looks
> > like the AEIO-360-A1B6 would be the best choice for the 200 HP version.
> >
> > Steve Johnson
> > RV-8
> >snip<
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin Database update problems |
The only problem I've had is trying to update two GPS's from one disc. Seems
you can only do one unit per disc. I also updated my operating system with a
download from there site with no problems.
Cash Copeland
>
> Listers:
> Has anyone updated their Garmin GPS with success. I have been trying to
> load the new database for a Garmin 95xl. The software included
> recognizes the GPS but then advised that no files were found for the
> connected GPS. I called Garmin and they advised that the disk must have
> been mislabled. When the replacement disk arrived I found the same
> error message and exactly the same unsuccesful attempt at loading the
> new database. Garmin has a problem obviously. Any suggestions? I have
> tried the procedure on three computers, all with the same results. It
> is not the computer!
> Dave Aronson
> RV4 N504RV
> Fairings and cowling finish
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Reasons to take IFR training |
VERY Long story (including link to a map) - press delete now if not
interested. This is for the archives though.
=================================
I will personally build my RV for IFR and I have a very good reason why I
should. Please keep in mind that an RV is only safer when IFR equipped if
you are IFR rated. In fact, you would be safer being IFR trained without an
IFR equipped aircraft than being in an IFR aircraft without IFR training (my
opinion).
----------
14 years ago myself and a friend (also colleague at that time) in his late
50's flew a ~1 hr. flight from Parry Sound where I lived at that time to
Collingwood. We went to Collingwood to work on a Mitsubishi MU-2. I was to
perform an A/D by adding an autopilot disc. switch on the yoke while my
friend (painter and AME) was to paint Canadian registration letters on the
fuselage. We flew in my friend's very old Cessna 170B. It was not equipped
for IFR flight - all we had for NAV was an ADF. We did however have a gyro
attitude indicator (which I would never be without!).
I was 24 years old at this time. I had started flight training 1 1/2 years
earlier but the small flight school with a fleet of 2 172's went bankrupt so
I hadn't been flying at all for 1 1/2 years. I soloed after 6 hours and had
2 or 3 hours after that - a total of 9 hours at the most. I was however a
flight sim freak and played with them since they first came out on the
Atari's and Apples. I would almost always set clouds to 100 ft above the
deck and vis to <1 mile and enjoy immensely breaking out of clouds with the
centreline right in front of me. I can't tell for sure but wouldn't be
surprised if I had at least 1000 hr's doing this over a period of ~7 years.
On the way to Collingwood that day I thought the engine sounded a bit rough.
This was strange since I had never in my life been in this aircraft. My
friend had just bought it a few weeks earlier. I mentioned this to my friend
who's primary job was as an AME where I worked and he told me that he
thought it sounded just fine.
We finished the work for the day and headed for the 170 for our flight home.
He visually inspected his fuel tanks and decided we'd better top the tanks.
Good move!!!, in fact the only good move... He then called FSS to file a
flight plan and asked for weather since it looked a bit gloomy but they said
the worst we could expect was some rain about half way there. We had no idea
was waiting ahead...
We took off and headed north towards Parry Sound (CNK4) (see link to map
below). The engine sounded a bit rough still but I decided not to say
anything in fear of insulting the experienced pilot in the left seat. About
half way we seen a front that looked like heavy rain and bad visibility. I
suggested to my friend (a pilot with over 35 years of VFR experience in
several types) that we turn around. He did however think we could just go
around it to the south and then get north once east of the front. I had just
moved from Norway to Canada a year earlier but have later learned that
weather almost always moves from west to east so this was bad move #1.
We got around the worst of it and started heading north. The ceiling was
getting lower and lower all around us but he kept flying north. It was bound
to happen... the ceiling and ground was about to meet. My friend pulled up,
into the clouds. I just remembered reading how an experienced VFR pilot
would last for an average of 176 seconds (or something like that) before the
propeller would be screwed into the ground.
As soon as we entered the clouds I focused on the attitude indicator. My
friend was staring out the windshield. Oh no! He's banking to the right...
what am I going to do?!? I had my hand on top of my right knee and pushed
gently up on the yoke to level saying at the same time "Dick, you're banking
to the right!". He responded "Oh!" and started banking to the right again -
this time sharp. I pushed again. Now it was hard since I had to overpower
his hands. I said "Dick, you're banking again". He responded by letting go
of the yoke and told me that "it seems like you have a better feel for this
than me". His face was white, as was his knuckles. I grabbed the yoke with
both my hands and watched as my knuckles turned white as well. I focused on
the VSI, heading indicator and attitude indicator, just as I do in the
flight simulator. Note: I did not even have the required 5 hours of
instrument training we get in Canada to teach us to do a 180 out of bad
weather. In fact, I had never in my life been in a cockpit in clouds...
Here I was, in the right seat in a very old plane with no instrumentation
(except the ADF which I soon realized didn't work!), 9 hours under my belt
in a period of 3 weeks, 1 1/2 year earlier and absolutely no instrument
training other than playing with a game simulator. On top of that, the pilot
was now sitting with his arms straight down, a white face and leaning
forward staring out the windshield... Ouch!
As I was climbing thinking I could get out on top the airspeed started to
get real low. I should have done a 180 but was worried about this as well
since we were now at a higher altitide (I know, stupid move!). I kept going
north at this time. I initially climbed at ~100kts then adjusted pitch as
the speed dropped to 90, then to 85. I kept dropping the nose but airspeed
kept dropping. I had a brief look out the window and could barely make out
the wheels - wheels with a solid layer of ice on the rubber - yikes!!!. The
airspeed kept dropping while I tried to keep the wings level - now at 4500ft
(elevation was about 800ft). I MUST AVOID THE DEADLY SPIRAL IN CLOUDS! The
airspeed was now down to 50kts and then 40 and we were still flying and I
kept pushing the nose down. At this point I could hear the engine
over-revving - just like a hurt plane in a WWII movie. I screamed out from
the bottom of my lungs "We're going to stall!, we're going to stall!" Dick
didn't say a word - he was now completely paralysed - still staring out the
windshield. What was he looking for???
In a panicky I never noticed that we were diving - big time! I then noticed
that the airspeed indicated 40,30,20,0 ???? What the hell? Ahhh, the pitot
tube is frozen! I instinctively pulled the throttle all way back and pulled
the yoke back. (Ok guys, I did many wrong things but this *is* hard when you
can't see anything!). At this point I was waiting for the ground to come up
through the windshield but somehow I managed to level out without folding
the wings but had no airspeed indicator so I had to fly by noise. Speaking
of noise, another loud noise started. Hail, that was all I needed, hail! Oh
no... what is the loud bangs? I could hear some very loud banging, just like
a shotgun firing?!? Dick finally spoke up "It's ice hitting the tail
feathers..." then he was silenced again. I guess as I got back down to
warmer air, the ice let go. Well, that was a relief although I learned later
than another 500ft would have got us on top (where's that RV performance
when I needed it!). I finally felt I had some control over the aircraft but
it was now _very_ turbulent.. I told Dick that I had flown in clouds many
times before and that he could relax. My lie obviously didn't work, he was
still like he was paralysed...
"Dick!, lean back, I can't see the instruments!!!" I had to yell this
several times as I started practicing gentle turns and focusing on relaxing
my grip around the yoke. I now turned south west hoping we could get out of
this but the hail and now snow just got more and more intense. I descended
slowly over a long period of time and could see an opening through the darl
clouds and water. This was a big risk but I stuck the nose out and noticed
that I had descended through the clouds over a small bay surrounded by hills
and trees, which was both higher than me. I had no choice "Dick, I'm sorry
but I have to go IFR again" I said as I pulled back into the soup. I can't
remember what I was thinking but do remember asking Dick (as a joke) "Is
this what they call marginal VFR?" He never laughed - just kept leaning
forward, staring out the windshield.
I flew the plane at 2300rpm and at a fairly steady altitude so I guess the
speed was ok. I started feeling more relaxed and looked at the time. We had
been airborne for almost 2 hours (where had the time gone???) and luckily we
had full tanks which I knew would last us at least 4 hours. 4 hours to
where? What is next? I grabbed the microphone and tuned the radio to the
nearest Flight Service Station which was Toronto. Dick came to life again
"What are you doing? Who are you calling?" I responded "I'm calling for
help, mayday I think". He said "no, that will get us into trouble". I
honestly didn't care and called Mayday anyway. Dick ignored me and went back
to his 'trance'. Toronto responded immediately and asked me to switch to
121.5. I briefly told them what was going on, what type (or lack of)
instrumentation we had and that I could really need a smoke as soon as we
landed (I since quit smoking many years ago.. - life is too precious!).
Well, I didn't say I needed a smoke but was thinking about it... :-)
Toronto asked for my approximate location and told me that they thought they
could see me on radar (we had no transponder either): "Stay calm, climb to
3500 and turn to 180 degrees" (or close to this). There are towers in the
area that are very high so this was the MOA. They further told me that
weather was bad in Toronto as well but that we had to deal with a landing
when we get there. As I slowly climbed towards 3500, I kept a close eye on
the tires for ice build-up. At 2500 it started accumulating again. I had to
ignore Toronto and descent back to 2000 and hope we'd miss the towers. There
was that shotgun noise again as ice hit the tail feathers. As this wasn't
enough the VSI started to jump around on me, then the altimeter stopped
working seemed to be jumpy... Ice must have clogged up the static port. I
had never heard before that I could smash a gauge to get static air so I
flew without. I have no idea why the PIC didn't think of this but he was in
another world. I advised Toronto and they asked if I had an alternate static
source. I told them "no" as this is what I thought. The heater was turned on
but was obviously not serviceable or I had turned it on too late. Why didn't
Toroto ask me to smash the VSI gauge???
The attitude indicator, turn & bank and RPM gauge was now my *only* useful
instruments. I thought if the RPM was fairly constant we couldn't dive or
climb too fast. I then thought of the ice and slowly climbed until I could
see ice build-up then levelled off and thought the smashing ice would warn
me off too low altitudes. Man, this was nerve wrecking! For some reason I
was fairly collected and was thinking clear - I just had very limited
knowledge of basic flying, never mind IFR in IMC cinditions with no
instruments. It may have helped that I was an avionics tech. at the time and
had good knowledge of instruments which is all I had to go on - very few of
them...
Suddenly, just like a miracle, we came out of the soup - right over Barrie,
a city with a small airpark. I had just been thinking how the heck Toronto
could talk me to a safe landing based on a 2 dimensional radar and we could
see stars!!!. I advised Toronto that I could now see Barrie airport and that
the airfield was in sight after successfully turning on the ARCAL system.
Then, the engine... that rough sound I heard earlier in the day now sounded
even rougher. I had added carb heat every 5 minutes or less (this I had
learned) so I didn't think that was a problem and I checked mixture right
away. Full throttle was now 1600 rpm and I couldn't maintain altitude. I
couldn't make the field either. I all of a sudden noticed how dark it was.
Pitch black... I could see all the lights below but no other contours. I
knew about the large lake (Lake Simcoe) and thought our best chance at night
was to touch down at or close to a beach. I headed for the big area without
lights (water) and started descending in circles with full full throttle.
Then another miracle, the engine came back to life. Instinctively I added
full throttle and climbed towards the airport to have enough altitude to get
there even if the engine quit. As we approached the airport I told Dick that
he should take over and land since I probably couldn't land it.. He said
"what???" and took over. He landed safely and I stepped out and had the best
cigarette in my life... :) The police met us at the plane. The airpark had
closed for the night and the airport manager had been called by Toronto
along with other officials. The police had been called from numerous cottage
people in the area where I circled the one time I broke out.
You can't even imagine all the paper work and 'interrogation' I was put
through afterwards. The only good thing (besides full tanks) was that we had
an official record of asking for weather and filing a flight plan.
When I turned around in the soup and went south I was only a few miles from
the destination. I called my wife to come and pick us up. She told me that
she couldn't because the highways were closed due to a heavy snow storm with
squalls. The highways were closed in the exact area I was flying in. The
airport manager (also an Avenger pilot) took us up to his house while the
roads cleared up. 2:00am in the morning my wife picked us up. My friend Dick
burst out crying almost hysterically in the car on the way home and told my
wife that I saved not only my own life but also his. He told me later that
he had 'given up' and just resiged himself to the fact that we were going to
die. I think he had a much harder time with this than me.
He told me a week later that I had a 'good ear for engines'. I said oh? And
he told me that when he went back down to pick up the airplane, he couldn't
get it to start. Upon closer examination he found that BOTH his mags were
unserviceable and needed to be changed.
I learned a lot from this trip. As soon as my RV-8 is flying I will take the
IFR training. I have considered it now but won't be able to upkeep it with
rentals. I will only fly aircraft with attitude indicators and a heated
pitot/static tube. I recently bought one from Gretz for my RV-8. It may not
be needed but it is a phobia I developed. I can easily sacrifice that pound
for safety... When people ask "why a heated pitot/static tube, I answer "I
have my reasons..."
Be careful out there! I have seen many RV's with just a turn and bank
indicator. At the very least make sure you have an attitude indicator and
maybe ask a CFI at your local flying club if he can give you 5-10 hours of
dual instrument flying. A well equipped RV is no good if you will be staring
out the windshield. If I had asked my friend before this flight what he
would do in sudden IMC he would no doubt have thought that with his 35 years
experience he would just look at the instruments. There is a reason 176
seconds is time to live in these situations! It turns out (much like a
*real* power off landing) that things are completely different when they
actually happen.
Dick is presently a supervisor of the Found aircraft production and I see
him once in a while. I would have thought he would have kept this ordeal a
secret but he has openly told people at and around the airport about it in
hopes for others to not do what he did. I never told people about this for
years since I was sure they would think I was fibbing but myself and two
other RV pilots (one which is a list member) went for breakfast in Parry
Sound and they were told the story by the source. This is the first time I
have actually written it down.
I made a map of the route to my best recollection. The actual flight was
much more back and forth, side to side etc, than you can see. The black line
shows intended route and the red shows actual flight. You can see us
attempting to go around the bad weather by going further east then back
north towards our destination. We then got IFR, I took over and started
flying south after climbing for a while, diving and getting control again.
The red circle is at the point were I broke out and circled and decided to
get back in the clouds. The route towards the water shows where I was going
to land around the shores of Lake Simcoe. Here's the map (179kb):
www.ontariorvators.org/Pics/ifr.jpg
Are
RV-8 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
Estrada Fuentes Daniel
| Subject: | ELECTRIC TRIM COVER PLATE |
Hola, Daniel,
If I understand the question, the answer is "Yes." You will have to
dimple the center hole for each platenut in the reinforce plate. These
dimples will accept similar dimples in the cover plate so that the
cover plate will fit flush. The center dimples should be for a #6 screw.
Glad to hear you are back building again.
Charlie Brame
San Antonio
RV-6A QB N11CB (Reserved)
Completing Canopy
-------------------------------------------------
> From: "Daniel Estrada F."
> Subject: RV-List: ELECTRIC TRIM COVER PLATE...
>
>
> Hi..
>
> The drawing #5pp says:
>
> Use K1100-06 Platenuts on E-615PP reinforce plate and AN507-6R6 Screws to
> attach E-616PP Cover Plate to E-615PP and use AN426AD3-3.5 rivet to mount
> platenuts...the question is:
>
> I know I have to dimple the reinforce plate to accept the K1100-06 platenuts
> but..do I need to dimple the center hole?..I mean the hole where the screw
> must be screwed...
>
> Hope you can understand what I want to ask..(my english is not so good)
>
>
> Thanks again
>
> Daniel EStrada
> RV7A (going to OSH...!!!)
> Mexico City
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ENewton57(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wings Mounting Sequence |
Hi listers,
I am here at work, going over in my mind the sequence of events for the final mounting
of my wings (RV-6A) and have a question for those that have gone before
me.
I now have the wings temporarily bolted in place. I know I must now get the wings
to the correct position (no fore or aft cant, perpendicular to fuse centerline,
proper incidence, etc.) then drill the rear spar. I then will clamp the
fuel tank mounting bracket in place and drill the holes through the fuselage
attach point. I also will cut to fit and drill the wing to fuselage fairings.
My question is, at this point can I go ahead and remove the wings to deburr all
holes, rivet the nutplates on for the fairings, touch up primer if needed and
then remount the wings permenantly? The plans call for the flaps and ailerons
to be mounted and rigged before removing the wing.
Can't that be done after the wing is permenantly attached? My thoughts are, I would
like to not have to keep assembling and reassembling the control surfaces.
I plan on saving the wing tips for last.
Anyone care to comment I would appreciate the advise.
Thanks,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
RV-6A N57ME (wings mounted and being rigged)
www.ericsrv6a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building Speed |
Het Todd
Why not take this one step further and put all parts by type i.e. all
k1000-8 platenuts together, all K1000-06 together etc...
just a thought, and yes do count AND compare to the drawings, Van's
misses things in the bag AND does not always update the contents to
follow the latest drawing revisions.
Gert
Todd Wenzel wrote:
>
>
> I also removed the parts from the paper bags and placed them in several
> thin plastic boxes from Flambeau (about $3 from Home Depot) that have
> moveable dividers. I label each section "Bag xxx". All but the largest
> "bag" parts fit. The parts that don't fit (only a couple) I keep in
> their original bags on a shelf. Also, any bag that contains rivets will
> have its rivets put into one centralized container organized by rivet
> type and size. I find this works very well since all the parts are now
> visible and if I need something from a particular bag, I can find its
> contents quickly.
>
> Todd Wenzel (really not that anal normally)
> RV-8AQB - wings
>
>
> I took all the parts out of the paper bags when I received the tail
> kit...
>
> Are
> RV-8 Wings
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
"rv8list(at)egroups.com"
| Subject: | BMW engines, maybe not |
Better not use BMW engines in your home build, appearantly they are good
enough to fly anywhere else but in america.....
from AVWEB
VICKERS VIMY GROUNDED IN ARIZONA
No, it's not mechanical trouble this time, but lawyer problems. The
Vickers Vimy replica, en route to Oshkosh, Wis., to appear at EAA
AirVenture next week, was grounded yesterday in Mesa, Ariz. BMW
Corporation, of Germany, complained in court that it doesn't want the
engines it built to fly in the U.S., saying it fears liability lawsuits.
The Vimy organization is appealing, but yesterday said it was "up to the
judges" whether or not the Vimy would be able to make it to Oshkosh.
The replica's scheduled appearance at AirVenture last year was cancelled
due to mechanical problems.
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale K. Cabbiness" <cabbines(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Reasons to take IFR training |
Are Barstad: I a am a new retiree and have wanted to fly since I climbed in
the back seat of an Army Piper [spotting for artillery] and gently lifted
from a dirt strip.... summer of 1954. Well now I have time and money: so I
started flight lessons and really thinking of building a craft..... of
course it must be a RV8.
I have learned a lot by reading the story lines, tips of construction and
help provided from many contributors to this listing. You and others are to
be congratulated for taking the time to provide information that is not
available in text books of flight school ...... only by experience!
Thanks!!
Dale Cabbiness Edmond, OK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 12:51 PM
Subject: RV-List: Reasons to take IFR training
>
> VERY Long story (including link to a map) - press delete now if not
> interested. This is for the archives though.
> =================================
> I will personally build my RV for IFR and I have a very good reason why I
> should. Please keep in mind that an RV is only safer when IFR equipped if
> you are IFR rated. In fact, you would be safer being IFR trained without
an
> IFR equipped aircraft than being in an IFR aircraft without IFR training
(my
> opinion).
> ----------
> 14 years ago myself and a friend (also colleague at that time) in his late
> 50's flew a ~1 hr. flight from Parry Sound where I lived at that time to
> Collingwood. We went to Collingwood to work on a Mitsubishi MU-2. I was to
> perform an A/D by adding an autopilot disc. switch on the yoke while my
> friend (painter and AME) was to paint Canadian registration letters on the
> fuselage. We flew in my friend's very old Cessna 170B. It was not equipped
> for IFR flight - all we had for NAV was an ADF. We did however have a gyro
> attitude indicator (which I would never be without!).
>
> I was 24 years old at this time. I had started flight training 1 1/2 years
> earlier but the small flight school with a fleet of 2 172's went bankrupt
so
> I hadn't been flying at all for 1 1/2 years. I soloed after 6 hours and
had
> 2 or 3 hours after that - a total of 9 hours at the most. I was however a
> flight sim freak and played with them since they first came out on the
> Atari's and Apples. I would almost always set clouds to 100 ft above the
> deck and vis to <1 mile and enjoy immensely breaking out of clouds with
the
> centreline right in front of me. I can't tell for sure but wouldn't be
> surprised if I had at least 1000 hr's doing this over a period of ~7
years.
>
> On the way to Collingwood that day I thought the engine sounded a bit
rough.
> This was strange since I had never in my life been in this aircraft. My
> friend had just bought it a few weeks earlier. I mentioned this to my
friend
> who's primary job was as an AME where I worked and he told me that he
> thought it sounded just fine.
>
> We finished the work for the day and headed for the 170 for our flight
home.
> He visually inspected his fuel tanks and decided we'd better top the
tanks.
> Good move!!!, in fact the only good move... He then called FSS to file a
> flight plan and asked for weather since it looked a bit gloomy but they
said
> the worst we could expect was some rain about half way there. We had no
idea
> was waiting ahead...
>
> We took off and headed north towards Parry Sound (CNK4) (see link to map
> below). The engine sounded a bit rough still but I decided not to say
> anything in fear of insulting the experienced pilot in the left seat.
About
> half way we seen a front that looked like heavy rain and bad visibility. I
> suggested to my friend (a pilot with over 35 years of VFR experience in
> several types) that we turn around. He did however think we could just go
> around it to the south and then get north once east of the front. I had
just
> moved from Norway to Canada a year earlier but have later learned that
> weather almost always moves from west to east so this was bad move #1.
>
> We got around the worst of it and started heading north. The ceiling was
> getting lower and lower all around us but he kept flying north. It was
bound
> to happen... the ceiling and ground was about to meet. My friend pulled
up,
> into the clouds. I just remembered reading how an experienced VFR pilot
> would last for an average of 176 seconds (or something like that) before
the
> propeller would be screwed into the ground.
> As soon as we entered the clouds I focused on the attitude indicator. My
> friend was staring out the windshield. Oh no! He's banking to the right...
> what am I going to do?!? I had my hand on top of my right knee and pushed
> gently up on the yoke to level saying at the same time "Dick, you're
banking
> to the right!". He responded "Oh!" and started banking to the right
again -
> this time sharp. I pushed again. Now it was hard since I had to overpower
> his hands. I said "Dick, you're banking again". He responded by letting go
> of the yoke and told me that "it seems like you have a better feel for
this
> than me". His face was white, as was his knuckles. I grabbed the yoke with
> both my hands and watched as my knuckles turned white as well. I focused
on
> the VSI, heading indicator and attitude indicator, just as I do in the
> flight simulator. Note: I did not even have the required 5 hours of
> instrument training we get in Canada to teach us to do a 180 out of bad
> weather. In fact, I had never in my life been in a cockpit in clouds...
>
> Here I was, in the right seat in a very old plane with no instrumentation
> (except the ADF which I soon realized didn't work!), 9 hours under my belt
> in a period of 3 weeks, 1 1/2 year earlier and absolutely no instrument
> training other than playing with a game simulator. On top of that, the
pilot
> was now sitting with his arms straight down, a white face and leaning
> forward staring out the windshield... Ouch!
>
> As I was climbing thinking I could get out on top the airspeed started to
> get real low. I should have done a 180 but was worried about this as well
> since we were now at a higher altitide (I know, stupid move!). I kept
going
> north at this time. I initially climbed at ~100kts then adjusted pitch as
> the speed dropped to 90, then to 85. I kept dropping the nose but airspeed
> kept dropping. I had a brief look out the window and could barely make out
> the wheels - wheels with a solid layer of ice on the rubber - yikes!!!.
The
> airspeed kept dropping while I tried to keep the wings level - now at
4500ft
> (elevation was about 800ft). I MUST AVOID THE DEADLY SPIRAL IN CLOUDS! The
> airspeed was now down to 50kts and then 40 and we were still flying and I
> kept pushing the nose down. At this point I could hear the engine
> over-revving - just like a hurt plane in a WWII movie. I screamed out from
> the bottom of my lungs "We're going to stall!, we're going to stall!" Dick
> didn't say a word - he was now completely paralysed - still staring out
the
> windshield. What was he looking for???
>
> In a panicky I never noticed that we were diving - big time! I then
noticed
> that the airspeed indicated 40,30,20,0 ???? What the hell? Ahhh, the pitot
> tube is frozen! I instinctively pulled the throttle all way back and
pulled
> the yoke back. (Ok guys, I did many wrong things but this *is* hard when
you
> can't see anything!). At this point I was waiting for the ground to come
up
> through the windshield but somehow I managed to level out without folding
> the wings but had no airspeed indicator so I had to fly by noise. Speaking
> of noise, another loud noise started. Hail, that was all I needed, hail!
Oh
> no... what is the loud bangs? I could hear some very loud banging, just
like
> a shotgun firing?!? Dick finally spoke up "It's ice hitting the tail
> feathers..." then he was silenced again. I guess as I got back down to
> warmer air, the ice let go. Well, that was a relief although I learned
later
> than another 500ft would have got us on top (where's that RV performance
> when I needed it!). I finally felt I had some control over the aircraft
but
> it was now _very_ turbulent.. I told Dick that I had flown in clouds many
> times before and that he could relax. My lie obviously didn't work, he was
> still like he was paralysed...
>
> "Dick!, lean back, I can't see the instruments!!!" I had to yell this
> several times as I started practicing gentle turns and focusing on
relaxing
> my grip around the yoke. I now turned south west hoping we could get out
of
> this but the hail and now snow just got more and more intense. I descended
> slowly over a long period of time and could see an opening through the
darl
> clouds and water. This was a big risk but I stuck the nose out and noticed
> that I had descended through the clouds over a small bay surrounded by
hills
> and trees, which was both higher than me. I had no choice "Dick, I'm sorry
> but I have to go IFR again" I said as I pulled back into the soup. I can't
> remember what I was thinking but do remember asking Dick (as a joke) "Is
> this what they call marginal VFR?" He never laughed - just kept leaning
> forward, staring out the windshield.
>
> I flew the plane at 2300rpm and at a fairly steady altitude so I guess the
> speed was ok. I started feeling more relaxed and looked at the time. We
had
> been airborne for almost 2 hours (where had the time gone???) and luckily
we
> had full tanks which I knew would last us at least 4 hours. 4 hours to
> where? What is next? I grabbed the microphone and tuned the radio to the
> nearest Flight Service Station which was Toronto. Dick came to life again
> "What are you doing? Who are you calling?" I responded "I'm calling for
> help, mayday I think". He said "no, that will get us into trouble". I
> honestly didn't care and called Mayday anyway. Dick ignored me and went
back
> to his 'trance'. Toronto responded immediately and asked me to switch to
> 121.5. I briefly told them what was going on, what type (or lack of)
> instrumentation we had and that I could really need a smoke as soon as we
> landed (I since quit smoking many years ago.. - life is too precious!).
> Well, I didn't say I needed a smoke but was thinking about it... :-)
>
> Toronto asked for my approximate location and told me that they thought
they
> could see me on radar (we had no transponder either): "Stay calm, climb to
> 3500 and turn to 180 degrees" (or close to this). There are towers in the
> area that are very high so this was the MOA. They further told me that
> weather was bad in Toronto as well but that we had to deal with a landing
> when we get there. As I slowly climbed towards 3500, I kept a close eye on
> the tires for ice build-up. At 2500 it started accumulating again. I had
to
> ignore Toronto and descent back to 2000 and hope we'd miss the towers.
There
> was that shotgun noise again as ice hit the tail feathers. As this wasn't
> enough the VSI started to jump around on me, then the altimeter stopped
> working seemed to be jumpy... Ice must have clogged up the static port. I
> had never heard before that I could smash a gauge to get static air so I
> flew without. I have no idea why the PIC didn't think of this but he was
in
> another world. I advised Toronto and they asked if I had an alternate
static
> source. I told them "no" as this is what I thought. The heater was turned
on
> but was obviously not serviceable or I had turned it on too late. Why
didn't
> Toroto ask me to smash the VSI gauge???
>
> The attitude indicator, turn & bank and RPM gauge was now my *only* useful
> instruments. I thought if the RPM was fairly constant we couldn't dive or
> climb too fast. I then thought of the ice and slowly climbed until I could
> see ice build-up then levelled off and thought the smashing ice would warn
> me off too low altitudes. Man, this was nerve wrecking! For some reason I
> was fairly collected and was thinking clear - I just had very limited
> knowledge of basic flying, never mind IFR in IMC cinditions with no
> instruments. It may have helped that I was an avionics tech. at the time
and
> had good knowledge of instruments which is all I had to go on - very few
of
> them...
>
> Suddenly, just like a miracle, we came out of the soup - right over
Barrie,
> a city with a small airpark. I had just been thinking how the heck Toronto
> could talk me to a safe landing based on a 2 dimensional radar and we
could
> see stars!!!. I advised Toronto that I could now see Barrie airport and
that
> the airfield was in sight after successfully turning on the ARCAL system.
>
> Then, the engine... that rough sound I heard earlier in the day now
sounded
> even rougher. I had added carb heat every 5 minutes or less (this I had
> learned) so I didn't think that was a problem and I checked mixture right
> away. Full throttle was now 1600 rpm and I couldn't maintain altitude. I
> couldn't make the field either. I all of a sudden noticed how dark it was.
> Pitch black... I could see all the lights below but no other contours. I
> knew about the large lake (Lake Simcoe) and thought our best chance at
night
> was to touch down at or close to a beach. I headed for the big area
without
> lights (water) and started descending in circles with full full throttle.
> Then another miracle, the engine came back to life. Instinctively I added
> full throttle and climbed towards the airport to have enough altitude to
get
> there even if the engine quit. As we approached the airport I told Dick
that
> he should take over and land since I probably couldn't land it.. He said
> "what???" and took over. He landed safely and I stepped out and had the
best
> cigarette in my life... :) The police met us at the plane. The airpark had
> closed for the night and the airport manager had been called by Toronto
> along with other officials. The police had been called from numerous
cottage
> people in the area where I circled the one time I broke out.
>
> You can't even imagine all the paper work and 'interrogation' I was put
> through afterwards. The only good thing (besides full tanks) was that we
had
> an official record of asking for weather and filing a flight plan.
>
> When I turned around in the soup and went south I was only a few miles
from
> the destination. I called my wife to come and pick us up. She told me that
> she couldn't because the highways were closed due to a heavy snow storm
with
> squalls. The highways were closed in the exact area I was flying in. The
> airport manager (also an Avenger pilot) took us up to his house while the
> roads cleared up. 2:00am in the morning my wife picked us up. My friend
Dick
> burst out crying almost hysterically in the car on the way home and told
my
> wife that I saved not only my own life but also his. He told me later that
> he had 'given up' and just resiged himself to the fact that we were going
to
> die. I think he had a much harder time with this than me.
>
> He told me a week later that I had a 'good ear for engines'. I said oh?
And
> he told me that when he went back down to pick up the airplane, he
couldn't
> get it to start. Upon closer examination he found that BOTH his mags were
> unserviceable and needed to be changed.
>
> I learned a lot from this trip. As soon as my RV-8 is flying I will take
the
> IFR training. I have considered it now but won't be able to upkeep it with
> rentals. I will only fly aircraft with attitude indicators and a heated
> pitot/static tube. I recently bought one from Gretz for my RV-8. It may
not
> be needed but it is a phobia I developed. I can easily sacrifice that
pound
> for safety... When people ask "why a heated pitot/static tube, I answer "I
> have my reasons..."
>
> Be careful out there! I have seen many RV's with just a turn and bank
> indicator. At the very least make sure you have an attitude indicator and
> maybe ask a CFI at your local flying club if he can give you 5-10 hours of
> dual instrument flying. A well equipped RV is no good if you will be
staring
> out the windshield. If I had asked my friend before this flight what he
> would do in sudden IMC he would no doubt have thought that with his 35
years
> experience he would just look at the instruments. There is a reason 176
> seconds is time to live in these situations! It turns out (much like a
> *real* power off landing) that things are completely different when they
> actually happen.
>
> Dick is presently a supervisor of the Found aircraft production and I see
> him once in a while. I would have thought he would have kept this ordeal a
> secret but he has openly told people at and around the airport about it in
> hopes for others to not do what he did. I never told people about this for
> years since I was sure they would think I was fibbing but myself and two
> other RV pilots (one which is a list member) went for breakfast in Parry
> Sound and they were told the story by the source. This is the first time I
> have actually written it down.
>
> I made a map of the route to my best recollection. The actual flight was
> much more back and forth, side to side etc, than you can see. The black
line
> shows intended route and the red shows actual flight. You can see us
> attempting to go around the bad weather by going further east then back
> north towards our destination. We then got IFR, I took over and started
> flying south after climbing for a while, diving and getting control again.
> The red circle is at the point were I broke out and circled and decided to
> get back in the clouds. The route towards the water shows where I was
going
> to land around the shores of Lake Simcoe. Here's the map (179kb):
> www.ontariorvators.org/Pics/ifr.jpg
>
> Are
> RV-8 Wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AYRES, JIMMY L" <JAYRES(at)entergy.com> |
| Subject: | Reasons to take IFR training |
Are,
That was quite a story. Thank you for sharing it with us.
Jimmy Ayres
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> |
| Subject: | FW: [rv8list] Oshkosh -8/-8A meetings |
Because I'm leaving for Oshkosh tomorrow, this is the last announcement
I'll be making for the RV-8/-8A builders' gatherings in the Theater in
the Woods at Oshkosh.
The meeting times are:
Thursday, July 26 at 9:00am and Sunday, July 29 at 10:00am
Because of a change in my plans, I'll be leaving on Saturday and won't
be able to host the Sunday meeting, but I'll put somebody in charge.
I'm sure somebody will volunteer.
So, if you're building/have already built/are planning on building an
RV-8 or -8A, drop by, put on a nametag and introduce yourself to
others. We've made some good friendships in past years, and have
swapped enough tales -- some true, some not -- to send everyone home all
pumped-up and ready to hammer more rivets!
See you there!
--Don McNamara
N8RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank and Linda Reed <reedpilots(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Headset location |
The man who built my RV-6A put the jacks on the aft
end of the armrests. When I was looking at the
airplane he said that if he were doing it over again
he would put them on the panel. I had no opinion at
that time.
Now, after almost 100 hours I think they are right
where they should be. The cord is out of the way and
it's almost like having a wireless headset.
Frank Reed N89PC
Pelham, NH
RV-6A 0-320/CS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "House of D's" <durosset(at)fidnet.com> |
| Subject: | VAL 760 Wiring Diagram |
I also need a VAL 760 Wiring Diagram, anyone one who can help?
Darryl DuRossette
Piles of metals and a RV-3 How-to book at MO1
Lost in the Woods, MO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 8:34 PM
Subject: RV-List: VAL 760 Wiring Diagram
Anybody have a VAL 760 wiring diagram handy they can e-mail to me?
Thanks...
-Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | efortner <efortner(at)vnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin Database update problems |
I have a Magellan and it is the same way you can only use the disc once but if
you
make a copy of the disc the copy will download indefinitely.
Earl RV4
JusCash(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> The only problem I've had is trying to update two GPS's from one disc. Seems
> you can only do one unit per disc. I also updated my operating system with a
> download from there site with no problems.
>
> Cash Copeland
>
> >
> > Listers:
> > Has anyone updated their Garmin GPS with success. I have been trying to
> > load the new database for a Garmin 95xl. The software included
> > recognizes the GPS but then advised that no files were found for the
> > connected GPS. I called Garmin and they advised that the disk must have
> > been mislabled. When the replacement disk arrived I found the same
> > error message and exactly the same unsuccesful attempt at loading the
> > new database. Garmin has a problem obviously. Any suggestions? I have
> > tried the procedure on three computers, all with the same results. It
> > is not the computer!
> > Dave Aronson
> > RV4 N504RV
> > Fairings and cowling finish
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wings Mounting Sequence |
> I now have the wings temporarily bolted in place. I know I must now get
the wings to the correct position (no fore or aft cant, perpendicular to
fuse centerline, proper incidence, etc.) then drill the rear spar. I then
will clamp the fuel tank mounting bracket in place and drill the holes
through the fuselage attach point. I also will cut to fit and drill the
wing to fuselage fairings.
> My question is, at this point can I go ahead and remove the wings to
deburr all holes, rivet the nutplates on for the fairings, touch up primer
if needed and then remount the wings permenantly? The plans call for the
flaps and ailerons to be mounted and rigged before removing the wing.
> Can't that be done after the wing is permenantly attached? My thoughts
are, I would like to not have to keep assembling and reassembling the
control surfaces. I plan on saving the wing tips for last.
Eric, yes, you could wait to mount the flap fairings, but I would recommend
you do it now because it will give you a reference for mounting your
wingtips. The wingtips are fairly flexible and the trailing edge can be
positioned up or down by a half inch or so. You want your wingtip trailing
edge to line up with your aileron, which in turn should line up with the
flap, which in turn should nest properly into the flap fairing. For this
reason I wouldn't just mount the wingtip without reference to everything
else. If you want to remove the wings and postpone all of this for later
then fine, but I think you'd be happier in the long run if you got it over
with now.
FWIW,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, N558RL, 71 hrs.
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Reasons to take IFR training |
Thanks for the kind words Jimmy. I never realized until I printed it out for
my wife that I rambled on for 4 full pages...
Best regards,
Are
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of AYRES, JIMMY L
Sent: July 19, 2001 3:37 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Reasons to take IFR training
Are,
That was quite a story. Thank you for sharing it with us.
Jimmy Ayres
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kenneth beene <kbeene(at)citilink.com> |
Does anyone on the list have a RV with an O-360C1G?
This is a conical mount with forward prop governor.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV's and IFR |
----- Original Message -----
From: John B. Abell <jbabell(at)mediaone.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 12:01 AM
Agreed. In the Fraser Valley here in southwestern Britsh Columbia we have a
seventy-something year old RV-6 builder that got his instrument rating on
his airplane. It doesn't get any more challenging than that!
Scott J.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jack Abell
>
> John Jessen wrote:
>
> > People are clearly using it for IFR and recommending a wing leveler for
those times it gets busy. So.... if anyone has any final thoughts, please
let me know.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
| Subject: | RV8 Rudder pedal question |
Folks with an RV 8
I have a friend who has about 100 hrs on his 8 now and has one incident with
a coyote(the 'yote won), and now one with the parking brake valve.
In both cases the aircraft seemed to over brake when he stabbed the pedal
harder than normal. In the latter case, with the valve partly closed, the
right brake stayed on and he went grass trimming, with no significant
damage, thank god.
Well, I started looking at his pedals and the factory drilled pivot point
for the pedal is actually slightly below the bottom step/ridge. This causes
application of the brakes just by putting pressure on the pedal for rudder
action. We tested this by rocking the plane and applying rudder only and the
brakes came on. It seems there is no lower pedal to allow you to rock your
heel forword - toes back to fully deactivate the braking action.
We fixed it by adding a lower section to each pedal, with a piece of 1" half
round alum on the bottom.
You might want to test yours with a helper and see if the brakes are
dragging with rudder application only.
Thx
Wheeler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold Pressure & Bill Benedict |
>
>Any reason to put a manifold pressure gauge in a fixed pitch IO-360?
>
>Steve Hurlbut
>Comox, BC
>shurlbut(at)island.net
>RV-7A
Steve,
A wonderful man named Bill Benedict explained this to the list a few years
ago. Bill was Van's General Manager, and would give you all the time and
help you needed. He and his son Jeremy left us a few years ago ( and I miss
them dearly), but I saved all the correspondences we had. Please read on:
Several months ago I was asked to discuss why I felt a Manifold Pressure
(mp) gauge was desirable in an application
with a fixed pitch prop. I have agonized over this question because I
wanted to paint a clear picture and not just give an
emotional or company line answer, so here goes:
The manifold pressure gauge! What is it measuring? How responsive is it to
control input? What outside factors affect
the reading? These are all questions that the next few paragraphs will
elaborate on.
Most of us have looked in a carburetor and seen the butterfly valve which
the throttle controls. When an engine is given
full throttle, the butterfly valve opens up and the engine is presented
with the full atmospheric pressure through the
induction system plus possibly a little ram effect from the forward velocity
of the aircraft through the air. Of course
there are factors working against us! As the air progresses from the input
through the filter and makes all the bends
required to get into the engine, a certain amount of turbulence and drag
will reduce the available amount of pressure to
the engine. If we were to measure the pressure at the intake valve at sea
level with the engine not operating we would
see about 30 to 32 inches of pressure, the same as the barometric pressure
(but only when at sea level). This is exactly
what the manifold pressure will read at sea level with a full throttle
take-off. If we are at some altitude other than sea
level, the manifold pressure will decrease by one inch per thousand feet of
altitude. When the throttle is pulled back,
the butterfly valve restricts the movement of the air and the engine has to
suck the air through the induction system. The
manifold pressure gauge then indicates less than atmospheric pressure, and
the engine produces less power. Thus there
is a direct relation between throttle setting and manifold pressure.
As we change the throttle position the engine develops a different amount of
power. The prop is absorbing this power
and trying to turn faster or slower, however the velocity of the air
through the prop is trying to keep the prop turning at
a speed proportional to the velocity of the aircraft. The air is acting
like a non-compressible fluid and actually drives the
prop. Eventually the aircraft speed will come to equilibrium with the
amount of power being created by the engine and
the prop will be turning at an RPM proportional to this speed, assuming we
have been at a constant altitude throughout
this whole exercise, and we can observe the RPM and determine what power
the engine is producing. If we had
observed the manifold pressure when we changed the throttle setting, we
could have determined our power level
immediately without waiting for the aircraft to change speed and balance out
with the power being produced by the
engine.
What are some typical manifold pressure readings? Once again, this would
be at sea level and with a constant speed
prop. On take-off, use full throttle and 2700 rpm until a climb speed of
100 to 120 mph is established, then back off to
25" mp, 2500 rpm. Since the fixed pitch prop is going to spin at its own
rate, I would adjust the manifold pressure up
1" above the 25 " mark for each 100 rpm the prop is turning below the 2500
mark. Typically a fixed pitch prop will
turn about 2300 to 2400 rpm on climb so I would set the throttle at 26 to 27
inches, and add a little throttle as you gain
altitude to keep the mp reading constant. Once a cruising altitude is
reached, set the manifold pressure between 22 and
25 inches and the prop will turn at a speed proportional to your airspeed.
Now lets start our descent to land. As we let the nose drop below the
horizon with no throttle change, the speed
increases and the RPMs increase. Initially the manifold pressure remains
the same but it appears the power has increased
since the RPMs have increased. As we retard the throttle, there is no
direct RPM change with the throttle position.
However the manifold pressure changes directly and immediately as the
throttle changes. As the descent continues, the
atmospheric air pressure increases by one inch per thousand feet of
altitude. With a manifold pressure gauge, the pilot
will observe this change and can continue to retard the throttle maintaining
nearly a constant power without fear of shock
cooling the engine. As long as the manifold pressure is indicating within a
range of 20 to 25 inches, the engine is
producing power and will not experience shock cooling.
Obviously the values given above are dependent on the prop, however, they
will be typically within the range given.
Once you have developed a feel for manifold pressure readings, you will
almost exclusively use the mp gauge as a
device for setting the throttle (power) independent of the type of prop
being used and the RPMs will merely be an
indicator of your pitch attitude.
Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.>
Louis
Louis I. Willig
larywil(at)home.com
RV-4, N180PF, 130 hrs. and producing much pleasure...
I0-360, Hartzell C/S .....210 mph or 2800 ft per min..take your pick.
(610) 668-4964
Penn Valley, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelsonhoffrv9(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Get organized and save time. |
Interesting. We actually do some fun stuff at work to study different
personality types. We use the Myers-Briggs material. I would say you are
clearly on one side of the spectrum, and others (like me) are on the other. I
vacuum my workshop when the aluminum chips prevent me from placing my beer
can on the workbench. I also go on the assumption that if I have every tool I
own laying out then I know exactly where it is. (I'm kind of kidding but only
a little). I do have an organizer for the rivets. I also have a peg board and
hooks for my tools. Problem is I can never figure out which hook to use so
the tools never go in the same place twice. Part of the having all the tools
out all the time issue.
But I'm happy, and I enjoy it, and if it takes me 10 years and a month
instead of 10 years so be it. I do like other people to be organized though.
Makes it easier for me to be disorganized and still get stuff done.
Curt Hoffman Loveland, OH
RV-9A (N912WK reserved)
Working on Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
Listers:
Some of you read my travelogue of a trip a couple of weeks ago. Trouble is
I left after only 3 1/2 days. The rest of the story is now available to
anyone who is interested. Trip participents Wes Hays and Judy Stocks have
finished the job.
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/tarant5.htm
These RV airplane can be quite a bit of fun and so can the people that build
them.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hurlbut" <shurlbut(at)island.net> |
| Subject: | Lycoming Engine Information |
I've just finished reading Lycoming Flyer "Key Reprints"
It is a compilation of articles taken from the Textron Lycoming "FLYER"
Newsletter.
I highly recommend it! If you want to know a lot more about engines in
general, operating
your Lycoming, breaking in a Lycoming, etc, etc this is a must read.
I received it free at the Arlington airshow. Best free book I've ever read.
I now have
confidence that I came maintain my future Lycoming in top notch condition.
Give it a read before you fire up that factory new Lycoming from Van's.
Steve Hurlbut
Comox, BC
shurlbut(at)island.net
RV-7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Scotchbrite wheel exploding |
I thought the reason the stone wheel would explode once it was loaded with
embedded non-ferrous metal was the same principle of the sun splitting
rocks:differing co-effecients of expansion. I find it hard to believe a
rapidly rotating abrasive wheel could become unbalanced to the point of
disintegration by grinding anything; but, then, that's why I enjoy this
forum-I'm always learning!
Scott Jackson
-6, piping,hosing, wiring
----- Original Message -----
From: David Burton <dburton(at)nwlink.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Scotchbrite wheel exploding
>
>
> >
> > i always wondered about exploding grinding wheels while grinding
aluminum.
>
> It is not just aluminum, but any nonferrous material. When grinding
> ferrous metal the metal will abrade away and the wheel will wear down to
> clean stone, a safe combination. Brass and aluminum being too soft to
> abrade away the stone will pack the grinding wheel and put stress on the
> wheel and un-balance it until it reaches the explosive point of
destruction.
> I watched the reconstructive surgery of a patient who had a home
> grinding wheel explode in his face. He suffered horrible injuries and
> disfigurement. Use a sanding disc or 1" sanding belt instead. It is
> perfectly safe and works wonderfully. The grinding wheel that has been
used
> to grind nonferrous metal is a time bomb...
>
> Dave
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david <davidagr(at)emirates.net.ae> |
| Subject: | RV6 Fwd Side skins |
Listers,
My Jig fell on my side skins during assembly, and bent them badly. I have
located some 0.040" 2024 T3 (free-of-charge) as replacements. Can anyone see
any problems with this except for weight. I would countersink all the
fastener holes.
RV6A Fuselage
Dubai, UAE.
Persian Gulf
David Roseblade
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Robertson <gordon(at)safemail.com> |
When I inventory the parts of a newly arrived kit, I put all the
contents of the brown bags into clear ziploc baggies. Then I write on
the outside the contents of the bag using magic marker. Great for
finding parts later. You can see right through the bag and read what
the part numbers are.
Gordon Robertson
RV8 fuse
And if I may add color code(Dymo Tape) your parts trays.Blue for
bolts,yellow for washers,red for rivets,green for nuts,etc.___ I saw a
man near Visalia Cal. who had all his parts in the paper bags just the
way Van sent them
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grinding wheel exploding |
>
> I thought the reason the stone wheel would explode once it was loaded with
> embedded non-ferrous metal was the same principle of the sun splitting
> rocks:differing co-effecients of expansion. I find it hard to believe a
> rapidly rotating abrasive wheel could become unbalanced to the point of
> disintegration by grinding anything; but, then, that's why I enjoy this
> forum-I'm always learning!
That is one of the greatest things about this list. There is always
someone who knows something about the topic under discussion. I've learned
a ton of new things about aircraft construction and if I can keep one person
from being injured in their shop I feel like I've given something back...
Grinding wheels will always become unbalanced with use and also glazed
so that they don't cut well any more. They need to be dressed with a
special tool (called a grinding wheel dresser for some strange reason).
This consists of a handle with rotating serrated discs that is applied to
the spinning grinding wheel to remove a layer of material from the stone.
If parts and tools dance off the bench your grinder is mounted on your
grinding wheel is unbalanced. If you have never used a wheel dresser before
you will be amazed how much it improves the cutting action of the grinder.
Sharpening the stone has the added benefit of causing less heating to the
part you are grinding which is important if the part is tempered. They can
be found anywhere grinders are sold, cost is maybe $10.00.
I also use a large diamond held in a holder I made to fit the tool rest
on my grinder to true up the face of wheel. If you are sharpening things
like chisels you need to have the face of the wheel flat.
Dave Burton
Optical Specialist, University of Washington Medical Center (protect those
eyes!)
RV6A, wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
> I noticed the black molded stick grip in the RV-7 prototype.
> > Any ideas where to get one for the left hand?
Infinity has right and left hand with lots of switches.........
In the Yellow Pages, I believe.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | Primer Solenoid Orientation |
Mike,
I have mine mounted upright on a piece of aluminum angle on the firewall. I
am not flying yet so I can't comment on any problems with this approach. I
do have it plumbed so that "1" is in and "2" is out. I guess I should ask
Skinner about this. Can you give me the URL or email address?
Thanks.
Ken Harrill
RV-6
Columbia, SC
This the the one from Van's, labeled Parker but made by Skinner.
Had to email them (Skinner) to learn that the side marked "1" is out
and "2" is in... that's the state of their documentation...
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | VAL 760 Wiring Diagram |
I've got one at home. The trick for me is to remember to get it once I get
home.
When I needed one, I called the company and they were happy to fax me
anything that I wanted. Give them a try.
Steve Soule
-----Original Message-----
From: House of D's [mailto:durosset(at)fidnet.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 4:42 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: VAL 760 Wiring Diagram
I also need a VAL 760 Wiring Diagram, anyone one who can help?
Darryl DuRossette
Piles of metals and a RV-3 How-to book at MO1
Lost in the Woods, MO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 8:34 PM
Subject: RV-List: VAL 760 Wiring Diagram
Anybody have a VAL 760 wiring diagram handy they can e-mail to me?
Thanks...
-Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jessen <jjessen(at)cmbinfo.com> |
| Subject: | Headset location |
Frank: do you have a picture of the placement?
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank and Linda Reed [mailto:reedpilots(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 4:32 PM
Subject: RV-List: Headset location
The man who built my RV-6A put the jacks on the aft
end of the armrests. When I was looking at the
airplane he said that if he were doing it over again
he would put them on the panel. I had no opinion at
that time.
Now, after almost 100 hours I think they are right
where they should be. The cord is out of the way and
it's almost like having a wireless headset.
Frank Reed N89PC
Pelham, NH
RV-6A 0-320/CS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andy <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | removing the primer |
A guy in the hangar next door just completed an RV-6, his second RV, both with
0-360s. He did not install any type of primer in the new 6. When I questioned
this he said he never used it in his 4. That even on the coldest days, the
engine started quickly and smoothly without it.
So, over the past couple of months I've experimented on my 6A by also never
using the primer. Boost pump for 3-4 seconds. Pump the throttle once, and turn
the key. Usually it fires right up. Occassionally it may take and extra second
or two on the starter, but never enough to seem troublesome.
Therefore, I'm inclined to remove the primer system entirely. One less thing to
break. One less set of fuel lines to leak.
Any thoughts on this?
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Rudder pedal question |
> Folks with an RV 8
>
> I have a friend who has about 100 hrs on his 8 now and has one incident
with
> a coyote(the 'yote won), and now one with the parking brake valve.
>
> In both cases the aircraft seemed to over brake when he stabbed the pedal
> harder than normal. In the latter case, with the valve partly closed, the
> right brake stayed on and he went grass trimming, with no significant
> damage, thank god.
>
> Well, I started looking at his pedals and the factory drilled pivot point
> for the pedal is actually slightly below the bottom step/ridge. This
causes
> application of the brakes just by putting pressure on the pedal for rudder
> action. We tested this by rocking the plane and applying rudder only and
the
> brakes came on. It seems there is no lower pedal to allow you to rock your
> heel forword - toes back to fully deactivate the braking action.
>
> We fixed it by adding a lower section to each pedal, with a piece of 1"
half
> round alum on the bottom.
>
> You might want to test yours with a helper and see if the brakes are
> dragging with rudder application only.
>
> Thx
> Wheeler
Wheeler,
Good info, thanks for the post!! I have noticed this effect also... feels
like the brakes are dragging ever so slightly as I'm rolling out on landing
and making small rudder inputs. This is probably exacerbated by me putting
the balls of my feet up on the lower edge of the rudder pedals on final for
the landing. I normally fly with my heels on the floor, but in order to stay
really on top of the rudders during the initial landing roll I move my feet
up for improved sensitivity and reaction. Of course this effect will wear
the brakes out sooner as well. Your pedal extension sounds like just the
solution, I'll add it to my "to-do" list this summer.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, N558RL, 70 hrs
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric Gyros |
> It's time to buy some more pieces, this time the RC Allen Electric AH
> and DG. Who has the best price these days?
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
Wow, they're really gone up lately. I paid $1,375 each for mine as part of
an avionics package purchase about two years ago. Recent prices in
Trade-A-Plane show $1,695 each for unlit. After a $450 repair bill and a
warranty claim they are both working very well now.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, N558RL, 70 hrs, off to SoCal tomorrow and to try my new O2 system
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Induction Systems LONG |
John--
Sorry for the weight, but I needed a reason to uncowl. I've got some
batches of photos to send out. I'll need your mailing address.
Boyd.
Rv6plt(at)cs.com wrote:
>
>
> Boyd,
> I would be interested in seeing pics and drawings. Sounds like a good
> system.
>
> John Henley
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Fwd Side skins |
Changing out skin thickness does raise questions. When you increase the
thickness how is it going to effect the loads on the rest of the fuselage?
As we all know the metal constantly twists and moves. When we change
soemthing like this it can/does change the pressure points and flexing
moments. This can lead to the creation of weak points and focal points for
vibration leading to premature failures and cracks. I'm not saying that you
can't do what you are saying as long as all skin changes are symmetrical,
ie. left and right side skin changes are exactly the same, but you do need
to think about it and possibly add some additional inspection requirements
for later in life.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
>From: david <davidagr(at)emirates.net.ae>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: RV List
>Subject: RV-List: RV6 Fwd Side skins
>Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:50:08 +0400
>
>
>Listers,
>
>My Jig fell on my side skins during assembly, and bent them badly. I have
>located some 0.040" 2024 T3 (free-of-charge) as replacements. Can anyone
>see
>any problems with this except for weight. I would countersink all the
>fastener holes.
>
>RV6A Fuselage
>
>Dubai, UAE.
>Persian Gulf
>David Roseblade
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david <davidagr(at)emirates.net.ae> |
Listers,
Pop along to your nearest ACE hardware, get 3 or 4 small plastic cabinets
with drawers that link together. Beg borrow or steal a label maker. Spend an
evening dividing the drawers up and labeling them. If I put more than one
size of rivet in a drawer with a divider, I made it obvious ie -3 c/s in
with -4 universal.
WELL WORTH THE EFFORT.
I don't need to look very far for anything, I even put drills, dremel tools,
markers, punches etc in the drawers.
Regards
David Roseblade
RV6A
Dubai, UAE
Persian gulf
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gordon Robertson
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 4:52 PM
Subject: RV-List: Building tips
When I inventory the parts of a newly arrived kit, I put all the
contents of the brown bags into clear ziploc baggies. Then I write on
the outside the contents of the bag using magic marker. Great for
finding parts later. You can see right through the bag and read what
the part numbers are.
Gordon Robertson
RV8 fuse
And if I may add color code(Dymo Tape) your parts trays.Blue for
bolts,yellow for washers,red for rivets,green for nuts,etc.___ I saw a
man near Visalia Cal. who had all his parts in the paper bags just the
way Van sent them
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Marlowe" <fmarlowe(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | removing the primer |
I've a friend who got pumped the throttle (probably overzelously) rather
than use the primer that was installed in his Beech. An apparent backfire
turned his plane into a 2 foot high pile of melted and smoldering aluminum.
I believe the primer puts fuel directly into the cylinder rather than
letting it pile up at the inlet of the carb.
My guess is, the certifieds have primers for a reason.
Just a thought.
Frank Marlowe
Trinity, AL
RV-7 Building wing jigs
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 9:56 AM
Subject: RV-List: removing the primer
A guy in the hangar next door just completed an RV-6, his second RV, both
with
0-360s. He did not install any type of primer in the new 6. When I
questioned
this he said he never used it in his 4. That even on the coldest days, the
engine started quickly and smoothly without it.
So, over the past couple of months I've experimented on my 6A by also never
using the primer. Boost pump for 3-4 seconds. Pump the throttle once, and
turn
the key. Usually it fires right up. Occassionally it may take and extra
second
or two on the starter, but never enough to seem troublesome.
Therefore, I'm inclined to remove the primer system entirely. One less
thing to
break. One less set of fuel lines to leak.
Any thoughts on this?
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: removing the primer |
> A guy in the hangar next door just completed an RV-6, his second RV, both
with
> 0-360s. He did not install any type of primer in the new 6. When I
questioned
> this he said he never used it in his 4. That even on the coldest days,
the
> engine started quickly and smoothly without it.
>
> So, over the past couple of months I've experimented on my 6A by also
never
> using the primer. Boost pump for 3-4 seconds. Pump the throttle once,
and turn
> the key. Usually it fires right up. Occassionally it may take and extra
second
> or two on the starter, but never enough to seem troublesome.
>
> Therefore, I'm inclined to remove the primer system entirely. One less
thing to
> break. One less set of fuel lines to leak.
>
> Any thoughts on this?
> Andy
Andy,
I originally was not going to install a primer system, then ended up putting
a pushbutton switch and wiring in for an electric solenoid system before
closing things up. I do not have the solenoid and fuel lines in yet and have
been simply using one full stroke of the throttle when starting. This has
worked fine although as you mention it does seem to take an extra second or
two compared to planes with a primer.
One thing though, it is VERY IMPORTANT to not pump the throttle until you
have already keyed the starter and the engine is moving. This will suck the
fuel stream from the accelerator pump up into the intake tubes and
cylinders. If you pump the throttle before turning the key the fuel simply
drains back down through the carb into the airbox. This fuel can then ignite
if there is any backfire whatsoever. I have personally witnessed an intake
fire from this technique. Fortunately those standing by had the pilot keep
cranking and it sucked the flame back into the engine when it started and
blew the rest out. So please, engage the starter BEFORE pumping the
throttle.
Frankly, I'm in no rush to install the fuel plumbing since things are
working fine for now. All those extra fuel fittings make me nervous... more
places for failure and leaks. Of course now I have a nice button on my panel
labeled "PRIMER" that is non functional. Oh well.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, N558RL, 70 hrs.
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com |
| Subject: | Re: removing the primer |
07/20/2001 11:03:55 AM
>Therefore, I'm inclined to remove the primer system entirely. One less
thing to
>break. One less set of fuel lines to leak.
Andy,
I live in central Texas yet I installed a three cylinder primer system on
my 8A. I don't care about cold starts, I'm more concerned about the extra
margin of safety it provides me if my carb bites the dust. I have an O-360
and by using the primer lines to provide gas directly to the cylinders in
an emergency I could keep it running long enough to save my life. Worth
the extra trouble for me.
- Jim Andrews
O-360 A1A Sensenich 85
RV-8A ( at the airport )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | removing the primer |
The O-320 I bought has the primer lines still installed so I'll definitely
be using them.
Greg
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Reasons to take IFR training |
Thanks to everyone who responded. I have received so many private responses
that I like address them here.
I received a reply from one of our list members that summarizes my
experience well (I kept his name anonymous for courtesy):
==================
Yow! What a story Are! Thanks for sharing that. The one thing I hope people
don't miss from your article is summed up near the end:
maybe ask a CFI at your local flying club if he can give you
5-10 hours of dual instrument flying. A well equipped RV is
no good if you will be staring out the windshield.
I kind of cringe at all these VFR pilots getting gyros "just in case" but
who will likely never get more than the hour or two in PIC training under
the hood. I suspect most VFR into IMC accidents are in planes with perfectly
good IFR instrumentation.
==================
Note what he said: "I suspect most VFR into IMC accidents are in planes with
perfectly
good IFR instrumentation." I think he is right - maybe not full 'legal' IFR
but good enough to fly in IMC conditions for extended periods. Without a
serviceable gyro attitude indicator I would not have been able to tell the
story today. It's called an 'artificial horizon' for a reason.
As he mentioned, I don't think it's important or required to have complete
IFR instrumentation but at least the minimums for safely getting out of
adverse weather. The most important is that you should be capable of getting
yourself out. An IFR rating is not important, but I believe IFR training
is - whether you get or upkeep the rating or not. With a co-pilot along, try
to block the airspeed indicator, altimeter and VSI while you fly under the
hood. See how well you can maintain altitude and perform gentle turns. Now
try to cover up your attitude indicator but make sure your co-pilot is
capable of recovering from unusual attitudes... This simulates an RV with
the GPS in the top center position (where the attitude indicator should go)
and a non-heated pitot/static tube in IMC conditions. Icing is of course not
always present but could be.
You might think that the most important thing is to avoid IMC altogether.
While this is true, there could be times you won't expect it. And the more
experienced you get, the more likely it is you will be more comfortable
'cutting it close' hence increase the chances of inadvertently entering IMC
conditions. This is not true for everyone but the majority (proven by
statistics).
Are 'Daisy' Barstad
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tommy Walker
Sent: July 19, 2001 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Reasons to take IFR training
Are, That's one of the most hair raising stories I've ever heard!! All you can
say is there were 3 of you in the plane that night. You, your friend and, most
importantly, the Lord himself. You ought to send this to AOPA magazine!
Although my 6A may not be "IFR certified" it will be IFR capable. I am instrument
rated and glad of it. One of my concerns about VFR pilot private pilot training
is the very few hours of IFR training you get. I hope all of you on the list
read this story cause IT'S GOOD STUFF!!
Tommy Walker
6A
Ridgetop, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Lycoming Engine Information |
This is also available online at:
http://www.lycoming.textron.com
Click on "Suppprt" on the main page, and then on "Key Reprints"
Matthew
8A fuse... wait!! Canopy!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Hurlbut
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 9:53 PM
Subject: RV-List: Lycoming Engine Information
I've just finished reading Lycoming Flyer "Key Reprints"
It is a compilation of articles taken from the Textron Lycoming "FLYER"
Newsletter.
I highly recommend it! If you want to know a lot more about engines in
general, operating
your Lycoming, breaking in a Lycoming, etc, etc this is a must read.
I received it free at the Arlington airshow. Best free book I've ever read.
I now have
confidence that I came maintain my future Lycoming in top notch condition.
Give it a read before you fire up that factory new Lycoming from Van's.
Steve Hurlbut
Comox, BC
shurlbut(at)island.net
RV-7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Battery Connector |
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
12:38:38 PM
Heres something different. A local builder told me about seeing this
battery connector on an RV. The guy had it hidden under his seat. Would be
a good safeguard for those that do not want to go the ignition switch
route. I think its fairly small and can easily be hidden out of view.
Eric
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prmenbr 1&prrfnbr=63168&outlet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Dimmer Control |
07/20/2001 11:42:50 AM
>I've got a dimmer kit from Van that is now several years old. When I hook
it
>up to my string of panel lights it seems to work fine until I put a jumper
>straight off the battery. Then the lights get a bunch brighter. Is this
>normal?
Not normal Norman. In fact it's a fire hazard.
Looks like your trying to draw way to much current from your dimmer. I
think the Van's dimmer is good for about 1.5 amps. What's your load like?
Your best bet is to split your load between two dimmers ( maybe one for
cabin lights and one for panel lights ) or just buy one that can handle the
entire load. Aeroelectric has some pretty stout ones that I understand
from other users work quite well.
- Jim Andrews
RV-8A ( at the airport )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Building tips |
Gordon Robertson wrote:
>
>
> When I inventory the parts of a newly arrived kit, I put all the
> contents of the brown bags into clear ziploc baggies. Then I write on
> the outside the contents of the bag using magic marker. Great for
> finding parts later. You can see right through the bag and read what
> the part numbers are.
>
> Gordon Robertson
> RV8 fuse
>
> And if I may add color code(Dymo Tape) your parts trays.Blue for
> bolts,yellow for washers,red for rivets,green for nuts,etc.___ I saw a
> man near Visalia Cal. who had all his parts in the paper bags just the
> way Van sent them
>
My wife and I got to tour the Boeing 777 plant last week along with
some others from this list. Some of the work stations had carts on wheels
and two or three shelves. Each shelf had a soft foam on it with cut outs
in the shape of the specific tool that went in that spot, such a drills,
rivet gun, and all the accessories. This looked like a really great way to
keep track of all of your tools.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com> |
| Subject: | Primer Solenoid Orientation |
A fellow RV builder in San Jose, Bill Watson , has a real nice primer
installation.
He mounted his primer solenoid horizontally a few inches above the fuel
collator
so that the copper line comes straight in from one side and straight out the
other side
and up to a bulkhead fitting near the center of the rear baffle. From there
it goes to
a distribution block and out to the cylinders much like a fuel injection
"spider".
Bill made his own distribution block but I believe ACS has pre-made ones.
The installation is very clean and simple with no complex routing of the
copper fuel lines.
Ed Cole
RV6A N2169D Flying
RV6A N648RV Finishing
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Harrill [SMTP:KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us]
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 7:10 AM
> To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Primer Solenoid Orientation
>
>
> Mike,
>
> I have mine mounted upright on a piece of aluminum angle on the firewall.
> I
> am not flying yet so I can't comment on any problems with this approach.
> I
> do have it plumbed so that "1" is in and "2" is out. I guess I should ask
> Skinner about this. Can you give me the URL or email address?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ken Harrill
> RV-6
> Columbia, SC
>
>
>
> This the the one from Van's, labeled Parker but made by Skinner.
>
> Had to email them (Skinner) to learn that the side marked "1" is out
> and "2" is in... that's the state of their documentation...
>
>
> Mike Thompson
> Austin, TX
> -6 N140RV (Reserved)
> Firewall Forward
>
>
>
>
>
Maxim Home Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com
Products Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/MaximProducts/products.htm
New Products:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/new_products.cfm
Datasheets:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/l_datasheet3.cfm
The information contained in this message is confidential
and may be legally privileged. The message is intended
solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engine Information |
In a message dated 7/19/01 10:03:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
shurlbut(at)island.net writes:
Snip<< I've just finished reading Lycoming Flyer "Key Reprints" It is a
compilation of articles taken from the Textron Lycoming "FLYER"
Newsletter. >>
Steve: Is this published by Textron Lycoming or someone else? For those of
us who didn't get to Arlington do you have any idea how we could get a copy.
Thanks.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
I just came across this site and found it interesting.
<http://amber.aae.uiuc.edu/~m-selig/ads/aircraft.html>
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: removing the primer |
Andy :
I to have been involved with five RV projects all carberated and we never
installed a primer system on any of the projects
They always seemed to fire right up with just a couple of quick pumps of
the throttle .
I agree that they might be necessary in the real cold country but I live
in Ky and its in the teens in the winters a lot.
Pat RV6-A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engine Information |
Hi Harry,
While at I got this information from the Regional Manager for Lycoming. His
name is Brian D. Tom His E-mail< btom(at)lycoming.textron.com > I asked him for
more than one copy so the flying club magazine rack could have a copy.
He Gave me his card and said that if I wanted more copies or any other
information to contact him.
I'm sure that he send you a copy or would direct you to a regional area
manager in your area.
----- Original Message -----
From: <HCRV6(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Lycoming Engine Information
>
> In a message dated 7/19/01 10:03:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> shurlbut(at)island.net writes:
>
> Snip<< I've just finished reading Lycoming Flyer "Key Reprints" It is a
> compilation of articles taken from the Textron Lycoming "FLYER"
> Newsletter. >>
>
> Steve: Is this published by Textron Lycoming or someone else? For those
of
> us who didn't get to Arlington do you have any idea how we could get a
copy.
> Thanks.
>
> Harry Crosby
> Pleasanton, California
> RV-6, finish kit stuff
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engine Information |
The key reprints and several other pieces of good info are available on
Lycomings website at:
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.html
>From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Lycoming Engine Information
>Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:54:50 EDT
>
>
>In a message dated 7/19/01 10:03:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>shurlbut(at)island.net writes:
>
>Snip<< I've just finished reading Lycoming Flyer "Key Reprints" It is a
>compilation of articles taken from the Textron Lycoming "FLYER"
> Newsletter. >>
>
>Steve: Is this published by Textron Lycoming or someone else? For those
>of
>us who didn't get to Arlington do you have any idea how we could get a
>copy.
>Thanks.
>
>Harry Crosby
>Pleasanton, California
>RV-6, finish kit stuff
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engine Information |
>From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Lycoming Engine Information
>Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 07:39:39 -1000
>
>
>The key reprints and several other pieces of good info are available on
>Lycomings website at:
>
>http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.html
I forgot to add that you then need ot click on the support button. Sorry
>
>
> >From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Lycoming Engine Information
> >Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:54:50 EDT
> >
> >
> >In a message dated 7/19/01 10:03:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> >shurlbut(at)island.net writes:
> >
> >Snip<< I've just finished reading Lycoming Flyer "Key Reprints" It is a
> >compilation of articles taken from the Textron Lycoming "FLYER"
> > Newsletter. >>
> >
> >Steve: Is this published by Textron Lycoming or someone else? For those
> >of
> >us who didn't get to Arlington do you have any idea how we could get a
> >copy.
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Harry Crosby
> >Pleasanton, California
> >RV-6, finish kit stuff
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> |
| Subject: | removing the primer |
I have an O360-A1A in my Piper Archer.
I never use the primer, just pump the throttle lever to full and back 2
times, then down to idle, mixture to full rich (almost when hot), turn key
and start on 1 revolution.
When I do use the primer... there is no difference.... so I don't use it.
jim
Tampa
6A FWF
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 10:56 AM
Subject: RV-List: removing the primer
A guy in the hangar next door just completed an RV-6, his second RV, both
with
0-360s. He did not install any type of primer in the new 6. When I
questioned
this he said he never used it in his 4. That even on the coldest days, the
engine started quickly and smoothly without it.
So, over the past couple of months I've experimented on my 6A by also never
using the primer. Boost pump for 3-4 seconds. Pump the throttle once, and
turn
the key. Usually it fires right up. Occassionally it may take and extra
second
or two on the starter, but never enough to seem troublesome.
Therefore, I'm inclined to remove the primer system entirely. One less
thing to
break. One less set of fuel lines to leak.
Any thoughts on this?
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engine Information |
> Snip<< I've just finished reading Lycoming Flyer "Key Reprints" It is a
> compilation of articles taken from the Textron Lycoming "FLYER"
>
> For those of us who didn't get to Arlington do you have any idea how we could
> get a copy. Thanks.
In stock at Builder's Bookstore. In the "engine maintenance" section.
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com> |
| Subject: | removing the primer |
Hi Jim,
Same plane, same engine - but I'm in St. Paul, MN :-). It's fine in the
summer, but the primer is definately needed in the winter.
Also, you have to be careful for engine fires if you pump the throttle too
much. Unless you are cranking while pumping the throttle, the fuel is free
to leave the engine through the carburator through the help of Mr. Gravity.
We had a plane at the field catch fire for just this reason last winter.
Cheers,
Brad "Sharpie" Benson
RV6AQB...
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Norman, MD [mailto:jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com]
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: removing the primer
I have an O360-A1A in my Piper Archer.
I never use the primer, just pump the throttle lever to full and back 2
times, then down to idle, mixture to full rich (almost when hot), turn key
and start on 1 revolution.
When I do use the primer... there is no difference.... so I don't use it.
jim
Tampa
6A FWF
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 10:56 AM
Subject: RV-List: removing the primer
A guy in the hangar next door just completed an RV-6, his second RV, both
with
0-360s. He did not install any type of primer in the new 6. When I
questioned
this he said he never used it in his 4. That even on the coldest days, the
engine started quickly and smoothly without it.
So, over the past couple of months I've experimented on my 6A by also never
using the primer. Boost pump for 3-4 seconds. Pump the throttle once, and
turn
the key. Usually it fires right up. Occassionally it may take and extra
second
or two on the starter, but never enough to seem troublesome.
Therefore, I'm inclined to remove the primer system entirely. One less
thing to
break. One less set of fuel lines to leak.
Any thoughts on this?
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
| Subject: | RV-List rv endorsement |
I just found out that for in motion insurance coverage on my rv I'm gonna
need to get checked out. is anyone in the northeast giving dual??? if not
has anyone compiled a list of instructors with rv's (guns for hire)? I
waited till the last minute figuring insurance was gonna be a simple
conversion process. (my money into a folder full of legal techno babble).
I've read all the recommendations on underwriters but it seems they all
require dual in type. does this sound right????
Steve dinieri
Faa insp on Tuesday
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
Gary,
We use Mike Selig as a consultant on occasion here at Aeroviornment. Matter of
fact, he helped with the airfoil that is on the Helios solar powered that flew
to 76,000 feet last Saturday (which was it's first flight under solar power).
You can see some more info on that project at:
http://avweb.com/n/?29b
We should be making the 100,000' attempt next month sometime. I've been working
on this program for about 5 years, and currently working on the portion of the
program that will extend the flight time of the aircraft using Fuel Cells that
use O2 and H2 to make electricity, and then an Electrolyzer to take the byproduct
water from the Fuel Cell and recombine it to O2 and H2. Pretty cool stuff.
Were planning on making a 4 day flight in 2003 (unless the International
Space Station sucks up all of NASAs funding).
Mike has also published 3 volumes of the book "Summary of Low Speed Airfoil Data",
which is very valuable. (Lot's of good stuff for model builders). In my dreams,
I want to do a tapered RV wing with a new airfoil. I'd even like to do
it out of composites. (I know, I'm sick). But at this point, it's only a pipe
dream...but a guy can dream, can't he... ;-)
Laird
RV-6 300 hrs (fixing another broken exhaust hangar)
SoCal
I just came across this site and found it interesting.
<http://amber.aae.uiuc.edu/~m-selig/ads/aircraft.html>
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List rv endorsement |
That's about it. Some require 5 hrs., some 10. Look to Doug Reeve's RV
Web site--he has panel displayed with RV instructors around the country.
http://www.metronet.com/~dreeves/vaf.htm
Boyd.
Steven DiNieri wrote:
>
>
> I just found out that for in motion insurance coverage on my rv I'm gonna
> need to get checked out. is anyone in the northeast giving dual??? if not
> has anyone compiled a list of instructors with rv's (guns for hire)? I
> waited till the last minute figuring insurance was gonna be a simple
> conversion process. (my money into a folder full of legal techno babble).
> I've read all the recommendations on underwriters but it seems they all
> require dual in type. does this sound right????
>
> Steve dinieri
> Faa insp on Tuesday
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "der_Jagdflieger" <der_Jagdflieger(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin Database update problems |
During the first update they write an identifying number
on the floppy. Many other outfits do the same and if
the write protect is ON, it makes you turn it off.
Solution, make copies of the update floppies before
using one. Each set will update a different unit.
HDW RV-6A 180 hours flying
----- Original Message -----
From: <JusCash(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin Database update problems
>
> The only problem I've had is trying to update two GPS's from one disc.
Seems
> you can only do one unit per disc. I also updated my operating system
with a
> download from there site with no problems.
>
> Cash Copeland
>
> >
> > Listers:
> > Has anyone updated their Garmin GPS with success. I have been trying to
> > load the new database for a Garmin 95xl. The software included
> > recognizes the GPS but then advised that no files were found for the
> > connected GPS. I called Garmin and they advised that the disk must have
> > been mislabled. When the replacement disk arrived I found the same
> > error message and exactly the same unsuccesful attempt at loading the
> > new database. Garmin has a problem obviously. Any suggestions? I have
> > tried the procedure on three computers, all with the same results. It
> > is not the computer!
> > Dave Aronson
> > RV4 N504RV
> > Fairings and cowling finish
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List rv endorsement |
Ok, this is a dumb question. But I'm a builder, not a flyer at this point.
Insurance companies want all kinds of dual time, and time in type yada yada
yada. What proof of this time are they looking to receive? Your word? A
logbook entry?
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com>
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:02 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-List rv endorsement
>
>
> I just found out that for in motion insurance coverage on my rv I'm gonna
> need to get checked out. is anyone in the northeast giving dual??? if not
> has anyone compiled a list of instructors with rv's (guns for hire)? I
> waited till the last minute figuring insurance was gonna be a simple
> conversion process. (my money into a folder full of legal techno babble).
> I've read all the recommendations on underwriters but it seems they all
> require dual in type. does this sound right????
>
> Steve dinieri
> Faa insp on Tuesday
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List rv endorsement |
My insurance Co. wanted a checkride endorsement in my logbook in type. I said
Vans had the only other "type" available, so they decided an RV6A would be
OK. Then I got a letter from them which stated the checkride had to be
endorsed by Mike Sieger or Jerry VanGrunsven. Mike was booked up, I heard
Jerry no longer gives instruction, so I just hopped in it and started flying
it. Then I called the insurance company back and asked how long I needed to
fly it before they would cover me. The answer was 25 hours, and by that time
I already had 20 of them flown off. All they wanted for this too was log book
entries.
Kevin -9A
39 hours flown
I wont be your Daisy, though. Maybe a huckleberry or a daffodill, but not a
daisy.
> Ok, this is a dumb question. But I'm a builder, not a flyer at this point.
>
> Insurance companies want all kinds of dual time, and time in type yada yada
> yada. What proof of this time are they looking to receive? Your word? A
> logbook entry?
>
> Bill
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:02 PM
> Subject: RV-List: RV-List rv endorsement
>
>
> >
> >
> > I just found out that for in motion insurance coverage on my rv I'm gonna
> > need to get checked out. is anyone in the northeast giving dual??? if not
> > has anyone compiled a list of instructors with rv's (guns for hire)? I
> > waited till the last minute figuring insurance was gonna be a simple
> > conversion process. (my money into a folder full of legal techno babble).
> > I've read all the recommendations on underwriters but it seems they all
> > require dual in type. does this sound right????
> >
> > Steve dinieri
> > Faa insp on Tuesday
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | RV-List rv endorsement |
Hey Steve,
Glad to hear you ready for your inspection. You'll be the first flying RV (other
than mine) with my composite instrument panel in it. Congratulations, and
thanks for being the beta tester.
Can you send me a couple of really good digital shots of it so I can set up a 2nd
page on my web site for customer panels?
I look forward to hearing you got your first flight off.
Best of luck,
Laird
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 1:12 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-List rv endorsement
I just found out that for in motion insurance coverage on my rv I'm gonna
need to get checked out. is anyone in the northeast giving dual??? if not
has anyone compiled a list of instructors with rv's (guns for hire)? I
waited till the last minute figuring insurance was gonna be a simple
conversion process. (my money into a folder full of legal techno babble).
I've read all the recommendations on underwriters but it seems they all
require dual in type. does this sound right????
Steve dinieri
Faa insp on Tuesday
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> |
| Subject: | removing the primer |
Brad, et al,
I agree with your note, and should have been more specific...
Warm vs cold weather... Primer for the latter works better.
My Archer POH DOES allow for pumping the throttle instead of the primer...
It says nothing about cranking the starter while doing the pumping...but I
do for the reasons noted.
jim
Tampa (Warm)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Benson, Bradley
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:47 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: removing the primer
Hi Jim,
Same plane, same engine - but I'm in St. Paul, MN :-). It's fine in the
summer, but the primer is definately needed in the winter.
Also, you have to be careful for engine fires if you pump the throttle too
much. Unless you are cranking while pumping the throttle, the fuel is free
to leave the engine through the carburator through the help of Mr. Gravity.
We had a plane at the field catch fire for just this reason last winter.
Cheers,
Brad "Sharpie" Benson
RV6AQB...
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Norman, MD [mailto:jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com]
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: removing the primer
I have an O360-A1A in my Piper Archer.
I never use the primer, just pump the throttle lever to full and back 2
times, then down to idle, mixture to full rich (almost when hot), turn key
and start on 1 revolution.
When I do use the primer... there is no difference.... so I don't use it.
jim
Tampa
6A FWF
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 10:56 AM
Subject: RV-List: removing the primer
A guy in the hangar next door just completed an RV-6, his second RV, both
with
0-360s. He did not install any type of primer in the new 6. When I
questioned
this he said he never used it in his 4. That even on the coldest days, the
engine started quickly and smoothly without it.
So, over the past couple of months I've experimented on my 6A by also never
using the primer. Boost pump for 3-4 seconds. Pump the throttle once, and
turn
the key. Usually it fires right up. Occassionally it may take and extra
second
or two on the starter, but never enough to seem troublesome.
Therefore, I'm inclined to remove the primer system entirely. One less
thing to
break. One less set of fuel lines to leak.
Any thoughts on this?
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Eggenfellner Suburu power |
Listers-
I just spent an hour in Watertown Connecticut with Jan Eggenfellner, the guy
who makes Subaru power packages for kit aircraft, and I have to tell you
that, for the first time, I'm actually considering an auto engine. I've long
said that I want a "real" airplane engine rather than an auto conversion, but
wait till you see his stuff! (go to www.subaruaircraft.com).
What intrigues me is this- for $13,000, you get a bolt-on firewall-forward
kit, with everything all assembled. You need to connect fuel and a throttle
cable, and your gauges and wires. That's all. His package is all bolted
together- including engine mount, fuel injection, electronic ignition,
water-cooled engine with the cooling system and radiators plumbed and
complete, oil cooler, starter, alternator and exhaust system including
mufflers.
You literally attach the 4 firewall bolts to the engine mount, and wrap your
cowling around it (a stock RV-9 cowling fits right around the engine!). plumb
the fuel, fill the coolant and start it up. Every other piece is attached and
ready to go. Hang a prop and go fly.
I looked over the setup, and it looks very nice and clean. Good workmanship
from the reduction drive to the coolant lines. I asked a bunch of questions,
and got these answers:
1) Don't know TBO yet. A couple of planes have put several hundred hours with
no problems.
2) He's been building these for 6 years, and it seems most of the
installations to-date have been glastars. One RV-9 is still building in NY.
3) Designed for Auto fuel.
4) Uses 2 batteries for ignition redundancy.
5) Weighs about the same as a Lycoming.
He's on his way to Oshkosh, and will probably be busy after he gets back.
He's building an RV-9 himself (looks good, too!) and has designed a package
specifically for the 9.
Check it out. It's worth looking at. I know I'm about a year away from
engine-ordering time, but I'll be looking hard at this one before I buy!
Ed Winne
RV-9A wings
Palmyra PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "??n ????r" <kevinschlosser(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | GPS Long Shot Question |
Anybody here trying to use a Handspring Visor palm device
with a Geode GPS Module and FlightBuddy? I'm Just about
ready to smash the @%$!#
out of this thing. It keeps
saying looking for GPS. I ran debug mode, switched from
NMEA to Zodiac and back.
I realize this is a long shot, but figured I'd try.
(Reaching for dead blow hammer... or maybe pneumatic squeezer)
Kevin Schlosser
-=< PropellerHead >=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sandra Baggett" <a_accuracy(at)msn.com> |
I have a prince composite propeller for sale with spinner.
no nicks. $485.00
Bob Baggett
email: sandrabaggett(at)yahoo.com
phone: 615-643-1030 day or night
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Insurance Indorsement |
Just an FYI, I signed up with Nationair's Vanguard
program yesterday. All they wanted was a sign off in
my logbook. No particulars in RV time. I have about
5 hours in RV, and about 1.5 dual. That was fine for
them, as my instructor had 25,000 hours and 400 hours
in RV's. This coverage included first flight, hull
coverage, ground in motion, etc. Not a bad deal at
$1500.
====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Getting Close
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
OK: speaking of airfoils, when I was at Longmont this year, talking to all
the walk-by experts, I got to talking to this guy about painting the
airplane (a frequent topic of conversation). He was saying, and somewhat
convincingly, that a flat-painted surface (say for example P**MER..now why
would I mention that?) actually performs better than a smooth-finished
surface. Witness, military jets. So, some of what he said made sense, and,
what with his quoting NASA, I started to wonder. Is there any truth to this?
Is it just with laminar airfoils? Maybe I WON'T paint the ol'
girl............
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q...in military flat VeriP**me green......Getting ready for
the Big O......Watching the Weather channel.......maybe I'll order some of
that hair-removal spray......can't AOPA or someone else sponser the
weather???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ENewton57(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Insurance Indorsement |
Paul,
How much total time in all aircraft do you have? I'm a fairly low time pilot (150
hours) and am curious as to what it will cost me.
Thanks,
Eric Newton
In a message dated Fri, 20 Jul 2001 5:09:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Paul Besing
writes:
>
> Just an FYI, I signed up with Nationair's Vanguard
> program yesterday. All they wanted was a sign off in
> my logbook. No particulars in RV time. I have about
> 5 hours in RV, and about 1.5 dual. That was fine for
> them, as my instructor had 25,000 hours and 400 hours
> in RV's. This coverage included first flight, hull
> coverage, ground in motion, etc. Not a bad deal at
> $1500.
>
>
> ====
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A 197AB Arizona
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> Getting Close
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> |
| Subject: | CS Prop / Spinner mounting. |
Yo,
I can't find anywhere in the instructions where it details putting the rear
spinner bulkhead on the prop... I understand that there is a 7.5" hole to
cut and a reinforcing ring to put on... Where is this in the instructions???
This is the problem with taking many years to build these things... you know
its somewhere... but you don't know where...
jim
Searching....
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Shook
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-List rv endorsement
Ok, this is a dumb question. But I'm a builder, not a flyer at this point.
Insurance companies want all kinds of dual time, and time in type yada yada
yada. What proof of this time are they looking to receive? Your word? A
logbook entry?
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com>
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:02 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-List rv endorsement
>
>
> I just found out that for in motion insurance coverage on my rv I'm gonna
> need to get checked out. is anyone in the northeast giving dual??? if not
> has anyone compiled a list of instructors with rv's (guns for hire)? I
> waited till the last minute figuring insurance was gonna be a simple
> conversion process. (my money into a folder full of legal techno babble).
> I've read all the recommendations on underwriters but it seems they all
> require dual in type. does this sound right????
>
> Steve dinieri
> Faa insp on Tuesday
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Insurance Indorsement |
You are doing better than me...I'm about 115 hours.
Nationair really didn't care. He just asked how much
time in RV's, how much TT, and if I had a CFI
endorsement in my log.
I'm sure that in the event of an accident, I would
have to support the information I told him verbally.
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Inspection Tomorrow!
--- ENewton57(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Paul,
> How much total time in all aircraft do you have?
> I'm a fairly low time pilot (150 hours) and am
> curious as to what it will cost me.
> Thanks,
> Eric Newton
>
> In a message dated Fri, 20 Jul 2001 5:09:35 PM
> Eastern Daylight Time, Paul Besing
> writes:
>
>
> >
> > Just an FYI, I signed up with Nationair's Vanguard
> > program yesterday. All they wanted was a sign off
> in
> > my logbook. No particulars in RV time. I have
> about
> > 5 hours in RV, and about 1.5 dual. That was fine
> for
> > them, as my instructor had 25,000 hours and 400
> hours
> > in RV's. This coverage included first flight,
> hull
> > coverage, ground in motion, etc. Not a bad deal at
> > $1500.
> >
> >
> > ====
> > Paul Besing
> > RV-6A 197AB Arizona
> > http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> > Getting Close
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> |
I was a pilot not a painter.
The dull paint was used to help with the camouflage. Shining paint reflects
light and make it easier to see.
Tom Gummo
----- Original Message -----
From: "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Airfoils
>
> OK: speaking of airfoils, when I was at Longmont this year, talking to all
> the walk-by experts, I got to talking to this guy about painting the
> airplane (a frequent topic of conversation). He was saying, and somewhat
> convincingly, that a flat-painted surface (say for example P**MER..now why
> would I mention that?) actually performs better than a smooth-finished
> surface. Witness, military jets. So, some of what he said made sense, and,
> what with his quoting NASA, I started to wonder. Is there any truth to
this?
> Is it just with laminar airfoils? Maybe I WON'T paint the ol'
> girl............
>
> Michael
> RV-4 N232 Suzie Q...in military flat VeriP**me green......Getting ready
for
> the Big O......Watching the Weather channel.......maybe I'll order some of
> that hair-removal spray......can't AOPA or someone else sponser the
> weather???
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Laird,
I developed a new hanger system for the Vetterman exhaust last winter. Larry has
them available now, but if you want I can E-mail you the pics I sent to Larry,
so you can make your own. Let me know.
Casper finally is done and goes to the airport tomorrow, at last. Do you remember
what static RPM you were getting when you tested my prop.
Garry
"Owens, Laird" wrote:
>
> Gary,
>
> We use Mike Selig as a consultant on occasion here at Aeroviornment. Matter
of fact, he helped with the airfoil that is on the Helios solar powered that flew
to 76,000 feet last Saturday (which was it's first flight under solar power).
You can see some more info on that project at:
> http://avweb.com/n/?29b
> We should be making the 100,000' attempt next month sometime. I've been working
on this program for about 5 years, and currently working on the portion of
the program that will extend the flight time of the aircraft using Fuel Cells
that use O2 and H2 to make electricity, and then an Electrolyzer to take the byproduct
water from the Fuel Cell and recombine it to O2 and H2. Pretty cool
stuff. Were planning on making a 4 day flight in 2003 (unless the International
Space Station sucks up all of NASAs funding).
>
> Mike has also published 3 volumes of the book "Summary of Low Speed Airfoil Data",
which is very valuable. (Lot's of good stuff for model builders). In my
dreams, I want to do a tapered RV wing with a new airfoil. I'd even like to do
it out of composites. (I know, I'm sick). But at this point, it's only a pipe
dream...but a guy can dream, can't he... ;-)
>
> Laird
> RV-6 300 hrs (fixing another broken exhaust hangar)
> SoCal
>
>
> I just came across this site and found it interesting.
>
> <http://amber.aae.uiuc.edu/~m-selig/ads/aircraft.html>
>
> -GV (RV-6A N1GV)
> vanremog(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 7/20/01 2:10:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mikel(at)dimensional.com writes:
<< I was at Longmont this year, talking to all
the walk-by experts, I got to talking to this guy about painting the
airplane (a frequent topic of conversation). He was saying, and somewhat
convincingly, that a flat-painted surface (say for example P**MER..now why
would I mention that?) actually performs better than a smooth-finished
surface. >>
It's true, but at our speeds the effect is negligible. The dimples in a golf
ball allow the air to remain attached further around the ball and therefore
drag is reduced. VGs similarly allow the airflow to remain attached to the
upper wing surface longer thereby reducing stall speed of the wing. Ask
yourself what the Reno racers do?
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Eggenfellner Suburu power |
In a message dated 7/20/01 1:41:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Ewinne(at)aol.com
writes:
<< I just spent an hour in Watertown Connecticut with Jan Eggenfellner, the
guy
who makes Subaru power packages for kit aircraft, and I have to tell you
that, for the first time, I'm actually considering an auto engine. I've long
said that I want a "real" airplane engine rather than an auto conversion,
but
wait till you see his stuff! (go to www.subaruaircraft.com). >>
Do some research on the web related to Subaru Engines used in aircraft and
you may end up with a different view. Beautiful looking doesn't necessarily
mean suitable. Just today I heard about a guy that sent his new engine back
to Eggenfellner for excessive runout on the PSRU. Admittedly it is second
hand info, but try to do good research anyway and watch out for the slick ad
copy.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Airfoils
>airplane (a frequent topic of conversation). He was saying, and somewhat
>convincingly, that a flat-painted surface (say for example P**MER..now why
>would I mention that?) actually performs better than a smooth-finished
>surface. Witness, military jets. So, some of what he said made sense, and,
>what with his quoting NASA, I started to wonder. Is there any truth to
this?
>Is it just with laminar airfoils? Maybe I WON'T paint the ol'
>girl............
Kosta: More than 40 years ago, competitive glider pilots found that when
the wings were spline sanded with 320 or 360 grit sandpaper, performance was
enhanced. Apparently the slight roughness energized the boundary layer
enough that flow separation was, in some circumstances, delayed. The
airfoils available at that time by NACA, Eppler and Wortmann seemed to
respond to this treatment and so it became common that after numerous
cleanings and smoothing in the paint occurred, to resand. This is no longer
done. Glider finishes today are typically very smooth and glossy, even if
not wet look shiny. Even at that no one thought that the high speed
performance was much improved. The main benefit was at the higher lift
coefficients used in thermaling. The newer airfoils don't seem to need this
treatment, although nearly all have tape type turbulator strips somewhere
aft of the max thickness and ahead of the flaps. The NACA 23013.5 modified
that Van uses is a turbulent airfoil. Laminar flow is limited to the very
forward portion of the airfoil and is influenced almost entirely by the
profile with much less sensitivity to the quality of the finish. This
doesn't mean one can do anything one wants at the front because you can trip
the boundary layer even there with poor contours or a spanwise paint ridge
or insect accretion, etc. The upshot is, in my opinion, that you need not
worry very much about whether the paint is smooth or slightly rough on an
RV. Note that the RV-9 uses a Roncz airfoil and I know nothing about it
except sort of what it looks like. As one who for 9 years now has
maintained a polished -4 I can attest that paint has its charm. If I were
to paint, it would be with an eye to easier maintenance. No flat paint.
The -8 will be painted with whatever paint promises to clean up the best.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Canopy frame |
This is probably just the first in a long annoying series of questions about
my canopy...
SO! I've installed the canopy track and the side rails are clamped in
place. My next task is to muscle the canopy frame into the correct shape.
The first bit they have you do is the front- for me, it is too narrow in
this area, which is fine- a clever yank or two and it should be just the
right width. Here's the question: I think I need to trim away some of the
front top skin to make room for the canopy frame. I made my glareshield cut
on Van's scribe line, but at it's just a bit too narrow at the very back
end, the part aft of the rollover structure. Did anyone else run into this?
I'd just cut away (it looks like I'd have to take off 1/2" or so) but I'm
leery of taking off too much... once bitten, twice shy.
Matthew
8A canopy!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Canopy frame |
> I think I need to trim away some of the
> front top skin to make room for the canopy frame. I made my glareshield
cut
> on Van's scribe line, but at it's just a bit too narrow at the very back
> end, the part aft of the rollover structure. Did anyone else run into
this?
> I'd just cut away (it looks like I'd have to take off 1/2" or so) but I'm
> leery of taking off too much... once bitten, twice shy.
>
> Matthew
> 8A canopy!
Yes, make some small cuts on the corners to clear the canopy bow, this is
normal.
Randy Lervold
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel Estrada F." <dani_estrada(at)infosel.net.mx> |
| Subject: | Ride in an RV6A..or 7A |
Hi..
I will be in OSH next Thursay 26 until Sunday 29...is there a kind soul who
want give a begginer builder little ride in his RV6A..?
I know you can schedule a ride with vans but I think it is too late to.
Thanks
Daniel Estrada
Mxico City
RV7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Meketa" <acgm(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ride in an RV6A..or 7A |
Daniel
You should have no problem getting a ride. Go to Van's tent first thing
uppon arrival and get on the list. I believe they only sign up one day at a
time. Get there first thing in the morning, if possible.
I am leaving for OSH first thing tomorrow morning. I am flying the Cessna140
up there. The RV8 is still not done, but getting very close. Look for me
wearing the camoflaged
hat in the RV area. I will likely be looking over the planes at least a
couple of times a day.
George Meketa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dave ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
| Subject: | c/s prop & density altitude |
I'll admit ignorance here so feel free to enlighten me. It's my
understanding that a normally aspirated engine cannot develop full
horsepower at high density altitudes--but is it true that a c/s prop can
turn at full rpm therefore developing full horsepower? Is a c/s prop a
better choice regarding higher altitudes?
Dave Ford
RV6
O360A1A c/s?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com> |
| Subject: | another 1st flight |
Buddy, you just earned your nickname...until/unless something better comes along...
"Call the Ball" :-)
Perhaps if you really have to make that carrier landing, you'd have to change your
nickname to "Makin' Bail".
Bill Shook, thanks for the inspiration he he he
Semper Fi,
John
>
> From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: another 1st flight
>
>
> 7-20-2001
>
> I learned from flying like this:
>
> 1st. flight log entry;
>
> Finally, the sun was shinning, a gentle wind was blowing down a dry runway
> 27.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: c/s prop & density altitude |
In a message dated 7/21/01 6:49:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
dford(at)michweb.net writes:
> I'll admit ignorance here so feel free to enlighten me. It's my
> understanding that a normally aspirated engine cannot develop full
> horsepower at high density altitudes--but is it true that a c/s prop can
> turn at full rpm therefore developing full horsepower? Is a c/s prop a
> better choice regarding higher altitudes?
>
> Dave Ford
> RV6
> O360A1A c/s?
>
A constant speed prop allows you to optimize your engine/prop performance at
any speed or altitude. You can select full RPM at any altitude, although as
you climb higher, this does not mean you will generate full rated engine
power. Full engine power is determined by RPM and manifold pressure. As you
climb higher, the engine's manifold pressure will drop, and you'll be unable
to generate full power. Whether you choose fixed pitch or constant speed,
you'll be down to a maximum of 75% or so of rated power by the time you reach
8000'. The air simply isn't dense enough for the engine to generate full
power.
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building tips |
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| Subject: | Re: Building tips |
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| Subject: | Re: Building tips |
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| Subject: | Re: Building tips |
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| Subject: | Re: Building tips |
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| Subject: | Re: Building tips |
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| Subject: | Re: Building tips |
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| Subject: | Re: Building tips |
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| Subject: | Re: Building tips |
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| Subject: | Re: Building tips |
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| Subject: | Re: Building tips |
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| Subject: | Re: Building tips |
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| Subject: | Re: Building tips |
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| Subject: | Re: Building tips |
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| Subject: | Re: Building tips |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <Emrath(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6A Gear Mount |
I don't know if this applies to the other -A planes, but I'm having a hard
time fitting in my mounts on my -6A. It seems two of my bolt holes came
through on a weld point on each of my weldments. The bolt clears the
weldment but the hole won't allow for a washer and nut. I called Vans and
they said I could grind away the weldment at that point all I needed to get
the nut on. Luckily, a friend is an A&P and knew about some metal lock nuts
which are smaller and used all the time on the big iron and shared a few
with me so I don't have to grind as much as otherwise for the nylon lock
nuts.
Also, two of the holes on each weldment came through right on the edge of
places where on plate overlaps another plates flange, I'm mean the edge of
the flange is covering only half the hole making a step right at the
location where one is to put a washer and nut. In one case, the step is on
the spar side, so is it OK to have a space of 1/2 the hole between the spar
and the weldment?
I'm wondering if others have these problems and what they did to solve them.
also, is everyone priming the inside of their nicely powder coated weldments
in the area not contacting the gear leg?
Marty in Brentwood, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn & Judi" <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> |
I am not an aeronautical engineer, and I don't even play one on TV, but I'll
stake a stab at this...
Perhaps a flat painted surface performaes better than a smooth painted
surface in much the same way that a dimpled golfball can be hit much father
than if it didn't have the dimples. From what I understand, the dimples
create an aerodynamically turbulent layer around the golfball that actually
has less drag than the surface of the golf ball itself.
Anyone know for sure?
-Glenn Gordon
N442E reserved
----- Original Message -----
From: "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Airfoils
>
> OK: speaking of airfoils, when I was at Longmont this year, talking to all
> the walk-by experts, I got to talking to this guy about painting the
> airplane (a frequent topic of conversation). He was saying, and somewhat
> convincingly, that a flat-painted surface (say for example P**MER..now why
> would I mention that?) actually performs better than a smooth-finished
> surface. Witness, military jets. So, some of what he said made sense, and,
> what with his quoting NASA, I started to wonder. Is there any truth to
this?
> Is it just with laminar airfoils? Maybe I WON'T paint the ol'
> girl............
>
> Michael
> RV-4 N232 Suzie Q...in military flat VeriP**me green......Getting ready
for
> the Big O......Watching the Weather channel.......maybe I'll order some of
> that hair-removal spray......can't AOPA or someone else sponser the
> weather???
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Kitz" <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: c/s prop & density altitude |
After reading so much about density altitude and never having ever paid any
attention when the AWOS gives it, I was surprised last week when our
field(865 ft) gave a density altitude of 3200 ft.
I thought I might feel a slight difference with either takeoff or landing,
but no matter how I tried, I couldn't feel a difference.
Upon telling my story to the FBO owner who has thousands of hours including
over 80 missions in a Thud in Nam, told me a story that made me a believer.
He had departed near SFO with his family in an Archer. He landed somewhere
in Wyoming for fuel and food, they could not get a car and had to walk into
town a mile and one half away. By the time they returned, it was mid
afternoon and they had topped off the tanks as he had requested. It was
also over 90 degrees.
He took off and immediately realized something was wrong. He climbed to 50
feet above the terraine and that was it. The density altitude was at the
maximum altitude of the engine. He dodged trees, teraine, and towers for an
hour until some fuel burned off and the land coming east dropped down some.
Needless to say, he never ignored density altitude again and neither will I.
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
>
> I'll admit ignorance here so feel free to enlighten me. It's my
> understanding that a normally aspirated engine cannot develop full
> horsepower at high density altitudes--but is it true that a c/s prop can
> turn at full rpm therefore developing full horsepower? Is a c/s prop a
> better choice regarding higher altitudes?
>
> Dave Ford
> RV6
> O360A1A c/s?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
please send some to me, also..thanks...jollyd(at)teleport.com
Garry LeGare wrote:
>
> Laird,
> I developed a new hanger system for the Vetterman exhaust last winter. Larry
has them available now, but if you want I can E-mail you the pics I sent to Larry,
so you can make your own. Let me know.
> Casper finally is done and goes to the airport tomorrow, at last. Do you remember
what static RPM you were getting when you tested my prop.
> Garry
>
> "Owens, Laird" wrote:
>
> >
> > Gary,
> >
> > We use Mike Selig as a consultant on occasion here at Aeroviornment. Matter
of fact, he helped with the airfoil that is on the Helios solar powered that
flew to 76,000 feet last Saturday (which was it's first flight under solar power).
You can see some more info on that project at:
> > http://avweb.com/n/?29b
> > We should be making the 100,000' attempt next month sometime. I've been working
on this program for about 5 years, and currently working on the portion of
the program that will extend the flight time of the aircraft using Fuel Cells
that use O2 and H2 to make electricity, and then an Electrolyzer to take the
byproduct water from the Fuel Cell and recombine it to O2 and H2. Pretty cool
stuff. Were planning on making a 4 day flight in 2003 (unless the International
Space Station sucks up all of NASAs funding).
> >
> > Mike has also published 3 volumes of the book "Summary of Low Speed Airfoil
Data", which is very valuable. (Lot's of good stuff for model builders). In my
dreams, I want to do a tapered RV wing with a new airfoil. I'd even like to
do it out of composites. (I know, I'm sick). But at this point, it's only a
pipe dream...but a guy can dream, can't he... ;-)
> >
> > Laird
> > RV-6 300 hrs (fixing another broken exhaust hangar)
> > SoCal
> >
> >
> > I just came across this site and found it interesting.
> >
> > <http://amber.aae.uiuc.edu/~m-selig/ads/aircraft.html>
> >
> > -GV (RV-6A N1GV)
> > vanremog(at)aol.com
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AV8TURDON(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Building tips |
Ray.......... you have sent 13 messages saying Building Tips and not one has
anything on it. I assume that you forgot your tip.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Building tips |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Cherroff" <sam(at)videoassist.com> |
Hi,
If you purchase an aircraft engine without logs, is there a procedure
that can get everything above-board and certified again? What would
be involved in doing that?
Thanks,
--Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Cinelogic inc.
(818)772-4777
fax 772-4733
sam(at)videoassist.com
http://www.videoassist.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: No Engine Logs? |
sam
there are a few things you can do, send it to lycoming , have them rebuild it
to zero time. you get a remanufactored engine with a new log book. or get an
engine shop do it the same way. or as an experimental, start your own log
book. but i would check to see if all the AD'S have been complied with. if
you have no record if the AD"S have been complied with, get a copy of the
AD's from your local mechanic, and see which applies to your engine. it may
be possible for you to do the repairs yourself, as a repairman on your own
aircraft. but if you have to open the engine, i suggest you get someone with
the proper credentials to do the job.
there may be more ways that i don't know about.
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Robertson <gordon(at)safemail.com> |
| Subject: | Are's IMC ordeal |
Are,
I was riveted by your account. What a story! And how lucky you were a
flight sim freak. This is absolutely how accidents happen.
We all have our "never again" stories. In my case, before I learned to
manage fuel by switching tank to tank, I landed at Trenton NJ in a 172
after flying from Boston. It normally took about 2 1/2 hours, and fuel
was no problem. This time the winds aloft were so strong that I was
flying at 2000 ft into a headwind. (Stupid, fuel consumption was very
high) I thought about landing at Morristown to refuel, but the gauges
seemed ok, so I pushed on. When I fuelled in Trenton, it took 36
gallons! The plane only holds 38 gallons total! I nearly died, both
figuratively and literally.
So thanks for sharing your story with us, even though you were entirely
blameless and undoubtedly saved both lives.
I took my IFR rating about 20 years ago, and like many people have not
kept it current. But that is ok, because in an emergency, the training
is there. It is like riding a bicycle, you never forget, only get
rusty. So I absolutely agree. Fly VFR by all means, but earn that
instrument training and equip your plane with the basics necessary.
Gordon Robertson
RV8 fuse
DNA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
Hi Garry,
I've tried about 5 different configurations to get the hangers to last, but once
I fix one area the stress just goes to a different area and breaks there. We've
just made some brackets that attach off the oil sump and go back and pick
up the exhaust pipes, so hopefully that will be the end of it. No relative motion
between the two. We'll see if this one works. The last time the hanger
broke the exhaust was laying against the cowl and burnt the epoxy out of the
glass and blistered the paint. Looks like I get to paint the cowl again.
As far as the prop, we were seeing 2075 with your prop, IIRC. I remember it being
about 50 RPM less that what I used to see and that was about 2125 or 2150.
I'm just on my out the hangar to test fly the new hangers, and I'll check the
log book where I noted the static rpm. I report back if its different that
I've stated here.
Good luck with the test flight.
Laird
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Airfoils
Laird,
I developed a new hanger system for the Vetterman exhaust last winter. Larry has
them available now, but if you want I can E-mail you the pics I sent to Larry,
so you can make your own. Let me know.
Casper finally is done and goes to the airport tomorrow, at last. Do you remember
what static RPM you were getting when you tested my prop.
Garry
"Owens, Laird" wrote:
>
> Gary,
>
> We use Mike Selig as a consultant on occasion here at Aeroviornment. Matter
of fact, he helped with the airfoil that is on the Helios solar powered that flew
to 76,000 feet last Saturday (which was it's first flight under solar power).
You can see some more info on that project at:
> http://avweb.com/n/?29b
> We should be making the 100,000' attempt next month sometime. I've been working
on this program for about 5 years, and currently working on the portion of
the program that will extend the flight time of the aircraft using Fuel Cells
that use O2 and H2 to make electricity, and then an Electrolyzer to take the byproduct
water from the Fuel Cell and recombine it to O2 and H2. Pretty cool
stuff. Were planning on making a 4 day flight in 2003 (unless the International
Space Station sucks up all of NASAs funding).
>
> Mike has also published 3 volumes of the book "Summary of Low Speed Airfoil Data",
which is very valuable. (Lot's of good stuff for model builders). In my
dreams, I want to do a tapered RV wing with a new airfoil. I'd even like to do
it out of composites. (I know, I'm sick). But at this point, it's only a pipe
dream...but a guy can dream, can't he... ;-)
>
> Laird
> RV-6 300 hrs (fixing another broken exhaust hangar)
> SoCal
>
>
> I just came across this site and found it interesting.
>
> <http://amber.aae.uiuc.edu/~m-selig/ads/aircraft.html>
>
> -GV (RV-6A N1GV)
> vanremog(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
Thanks Randy- I should have just looked at your site, its plainly visible
that you did this in the pictures of your canopy...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Rush" <K9HXT(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 76 Msgs - 07/20/01 |
I am about ready to fly (FAA insp next week) and my insurance company wants me
to get at least 1 hour of dual from a CFI who has time in a RV-6A
(hopefully has one). Does anyone know of such a contact in the Indianapolis area?????
Thanks fellas,
Larry RV-6A N939LT at 3SY Speedway A/P (west side INDY)----- Original Message -----
From: RV-List Digest Server
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 2:07 AM
Subject: RV-List Digest: 76 Msgs - 07/20/01
RV-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 07/20/01: 76
_______
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Cherroff" <sam(at)videoassist.com> |
| Subject: | A $2000 Lycoming O-320 ? |
A Lycoming 0-320 just sold on Ebay for $2025.
No log books. "Runs" Approx 400 since OH (but who really knows?)
No other details.
One wonders if it was a good deal....
--S
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Cinelogic inc.
(818)772-4777
fax 772-4733
sam(at)videoassist.com
http://www.videoassist.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: No Engine Logs? |
you must get it torn down..completely..byan engine shop or aA&P-IA...and
start completely all over again..stating that..the orignal logs are not
available and engine has been completely inspected, measured, ndt'ed..and
new blah blah installed..signed by the A&P-IA or engine shop..if the
engine has no data tag..THAT is a different story..THAT is a HARD
one...good luck..
Sam Cherroff wrote:
>
> Hi,
> If you purchase an aircraft engine without logs, is there a procedure
> that can get everything above-board and certified again? What would
> be involved in doing that?
>
> Thanks,
> --Sam
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Cinelogic inc.
> (818)772-4777
> fax 772-4733
> sam(at)videoassist.com
> http://www.videoassist.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
> Infinity has right and left hand with lots of switches.........
Product Report:
I love my Infinity stick grips. Don't be disillusioned with the cost,
Infinity is the only grip I researched that comes pre-wired. They have a
long tail of very high quality wire (custom long lengths available on
request). It is a bundle of 18(?) wires in it's own durable insulation
jacket. All the wires are soldered onto the little switches inside the grip
already. This is hours of work saved and must be reflected in their high
price. Good value IMO. Infinity will put whatever type of switch in
whichever position you want. Every one is custom. Imagine having flaps and 2
axis trim right on top of your grip. Also fuel boost pump, cabin map reading
lights (mine are separate from my panel lights), trim disconnect, and push
to talk at the trigger. They cost more but you get more.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grip |
> I love my Infinity stick grips...........
Agreed. One of the most comfortable and useful grips in the business, left
or right hand. Change radio frequency, flip-flop channels, push to ident,
landing lights, taxi lights, 50 caliber machine gu.........I mean
push-to-talk. Without taking your hand off the stick. And they look really
cool..........not that that would influence anybody..........
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic Engine, and IO-360 for aerobatics |
| From: | b green <rvinfo(at)juno.com> |
There are two types of Lycoming aerobatic engines, the "A" prefix and the
"AE" prefix. The A engines are a dry sump engine and are at best a
contraption and are very rare and only bear mentioning to clear up the
confusion. The AE engines are engines converted to aerobatic use by the
addition of a Christan system. A few years back, there was a rash of
crankshaft flage failures which prompted an AD for aerobatic engines
where you had to remove the prop and visually inspect every 25 hours or
magnaflux the flange every 100 hours or replace with a solid flange
crank. Many planes flew for many years with the old style flange with
the "litening holes" in the flange and there was not a correlation
between constant speed props on the broken ones. It is possilbe if you
field convert your engine, that some FAA types would deem this AD
applicable and it is kind of a pain to deal with. If you certify the
plane with an engine of your own make, then the AD would most likely not
be applicabel, so the extra 15 hours of fly off time might be worth it.
It is my understanding that all of the new engines come with the solid
flange crankshafts and so there is no beefed up acro crank, it is just
the standard crank. I could well be wrong on this however.
Bruce Green
writes:
>
>
> Thanks for the info. So, bottom line, is the standard IO-360 with
> Christen
> system installed, the same as the AEIO-360 without the beefed up
> crank
> flange which I don't need?
>
> Steve Johnson
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 8:57 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Aerobatic Engine, and IO-360 for aerobatics
>
>
> >
> > The Lycoming aerobatic engines come with the Aviat (Christen)
> "external"
> > inverted oil hardware and plumbing but are given Lycoming part
> #'s.
> > When inverted, the breather port becomes the oil pick-up line and
> the
> > right sump drain line becomes the breather line. Since there is a
> plug
> > in front of a shortened oil suction screen, the left sump drain is
> the
> > oil pick-up line. The oil flow between inverted and upright
> flight is
> > controlled by the oil valve, which is firewall mounted. The
> air/oil
> > separator is mounted on the rear right side of the engine mount
> frame.
> >
> > If my quirky scanner decides to fire up one more time I can send
> you a
> > diagram of the system, off List.
> >
> > Boyd.
> >
> > Stephen Johnson wrote:
> > >
>
> > >
> > > Matthew,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the information. The engine in Van's catalog is
> listed as
> "EA
> > > IO360-A1B6" which I assumed was a misprint. I'm about a year
> away from
> > > ordering the engine, but I sure want to get the right one when
> the time
> > > comes. The following is a quote from the Lycoming web site:
> > >
> > > "Most Lycoming engines are termed "wet sump" engines because oil
> is
> stored
> > > internally in a sump at the bottom of the crankcase. When the
> engine is
> > > inverted, the oil will be in the top of the crankcase rather
> than in the
> oil
> > > sump. To maintain a continuous flow of oil during inverted
> flight, an
> oil
> > > pick-up line must be provided near the top of the engine as well
> as in
> the
> > > oil sump. Lycoming aerobatic engines carrying an AEIO
> designation use
> > > inverted oil system hardware to adapt oil pickup lines at the
> top and
> bottom
> > > of the wet sump engine."
> > >
> > > It sounds lile the AEIO engines don't require the external
> Christen
> inverted
> > > oil system. The beefy crank flange is required for stressful
> gyroscopic
> > > maneuvers like snap rolls. I don't plan to do aggressive snap
> rolls
> myself.
> > > All of this should be made clear with a little investigation.
> There
> should
> > > be a bunch of us RV-8 builders getting ready for an engine, and
> it
> looks
> > > like the AEIO-360-A1B6 would be the best choice for the 200 HP
> version.
> > >
> > > Steve Johnson
> > > RV-8
> > >snip<
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | IFR thoughts (very long) |
Gentlemen,
A caveat up front: this message doesn't bear directly on a
building-related topic, but I thought that the content might be of some
interest to the group in general. Please hit 'delete' now if you'd
rather not read my blatherings.
The discussion this week about the relative merits of equipping our RV's
for IFR, as well as Are Barstad's story have prompted me to share my
recollections and thoughts about two of the flights in my logbook. I've
encountered five emergency situations in eleven years and 1000 hours,
declared four of them (there was no time to do so in the other), and had
the trucks rolled on three occasions. The two flights in question were
separated by almost seven years, several ratings and over three hundred
hours of experience. Both flights bear directly on the subject of IFR
preparedness.
The first incident occurred in October, 1991 when I was a new private
pilot of about 110 hours. I had flown a rented Arrow from Hanscom (BED)
down to Martha's Vineyard (MVY) on a first date adventure with a young
lady I'd just met. The trip down was great and, after a pleasant day on
the island, I got a weather briefing for a night VFR trip back to BED.
The briefing was for good VFR, with ceilings & visibility that gave me
no reasons for concern. We departed MVY shortly after 10 PM.
Immediately after takeoff, I realized that I had no horizon reference
over the dark ocean. My primary instructor had made me aware of the
phenomenon during my initial training and had actually demonstrated it
to me in the few hours of training for my instrument rating that I'd
accomplished at that point. I felt comfortable on the gauges and wasn't
worried. About twenty minutes into the flight, I realized that I had no
view of any lights on the ground. Assuming that I was either still over
the water or, perhaps, over a wooded area of the cape, I pressed on.
Shortly thereafter, while flying entirely on instruments, I became aware
of rain on the windshield. At this point, I knew what had happened and
immediately declared the emergency to Boston Approach, with whom I was
already receiving flight following. They advised me that unforecast
weather had moved into the area (I already knew that!) and also closed
in behind me. They asked for the usual info: number of souls on board,
fuel remaining, etc., and here I made the night's worst error: I
deliberately informed them that I had much less fuel on board than I
actually did because I didn't want to deal with the possible first date
awkwardness at a hotel if stranded away from home. I wanted them to
feel like they needed to do something for me in the local area. At the
same time, I knew that only I could truly do anything to help myself and
that I'd taken the first steps by continuing to FLY THE AIRPLANE and by
communicating my situation to ATC. When asked to state my intentions, I
asked to be vectored to the ILS 11 at BED. They asked if I was rated
and equipped and I responded truthfully that the plane was equipped, but
that I'd only had about ten hours of training toward my instrument
rating. Nevertheless, I wanted to try the ILS. I didn't have approach
plates on board, but I knew the numbers and the approach controller
confirmed them. To make a long story slightly shorter, I got turned on
slightly outside the marker and wasn't able to stabilize on the
localizer. In short, I got blown off full-scale due to my inexperience
in tracking. Once again, I was asked to state my intentions and, once
again, I requested vectors to the ILS 11, but a bit further out this
time to allow for a longer shot at stabilizing on the localizer. I
wound up getting blown off full-scale again. Asked yet again to state
my intentions, I recalled an article that I'd read maybe a week
beforehand in one of the aviation magazines that suggested that rain
clouds almost never go all the way down to the surface of the sea and,
if in this sort of trouble near the coast, to descend over the ocean
until breaking out. With that in mind, I asked Boston to vector me out
five miles east of Logan and I'd give them a straight and level descent
to 500 feet and see what happened. They complied, I broke out at 800
feet, saw the lights of Hull and landed at Logan to be met by the
trucks. That was right about when my companion realized that something
was amiss. They had a cup of coffee waiting for me after I shut down
and some forms to fill out. Amazingly few, actually, considering that I
had singlehandedly shut down Boston's Class B (TCA at the time) for over
an hour. I was invited to return the next night and visit the TRACON
and meet 'my' controller. When I showed up the next evening and was
introduced to the room as the Arrow pilot, I got a brief round of
applause for surviving, though at that point I felt like a complete fool
for having gotten myself into trouble in the first place (and for
passing up the possibility of being vectored to good VFR by concealing
my true fuel status). I spent a very educational hour or so plugged in
with my controller from the previous evening and learned that, from my
emergency declaration to my landing at BOS, over an hour had elapsed,
though I'd guessed only about 30 minutes when asked. Time has a way of
compressing when we're so intently focused upon the task at hand. It's
not the only time I've experienced the feeling, but it's certainly the
most extreme example I've encountered. What happened with my date is
another story... :-)
The second incident occurred in June, 1998 when I was a new CFI
accompanying a friend from BED to New Orleans and back in his Cardinal.
We took off from BED in heavy rain, but were soon on top in the
brilliant, late spring sunshine on our way to Islip (ISP) to have
breakfast with my parents before continuing south. After breakfast, we
briefed and filed, said so long to my parents and headed out for the
second leg of our trip. The weather was close to minimums, which in
retrospect may not have been the wisest choice to make in a single, but
wasn't at all unusual in my experience at that time. It was my leg and
I was flying from the left seat. Our runup was unremarkable and we
launched. About two minutes after takeoff, while solidly in the soup,
we both smelled that unmistakable aroma of something electrical
toasting. The overvoltage light was on and the alternator breaker was
popped. We glanced at each other and I said it first: We're going back
to ISP, NOW! (While that might not have been the first word out of my
mouth, it did get said...) I had just taken the plate for ISP's active
runway off my yoke clip and my friend still had it in his hand. I put
it right back up there and told NY that I was declaring an emergency and
that we were returning to ISP. Meanwhile, I reset the alternator
breaker to see what it would do. It stayed reset for maybe five seconds
before popping again. At this point, I knew that I'd made the right
choice, though I can't honestly say that I ever second guessed myself.
Partly because that's somewhat out of character and partly because the
whole cockpit still smelled like an electrical component had fried. As
we got vectored back to the ILS, I turned off everything but the
nav/comm I was using and the transponder, then told NY to get one last
fix on me if they wanted it because I was turning off the transponder,
too. I figured that it wasn't doing anything for me and they already
knew where I was. At 200 feet we still hadn't broken out and my friend
made some comment about going missed. I wasn't having any of that,
since I wasn't going to bet my bippy on his battery after something had
already given up the ghost in his electrical system. We continued the
approach and broke out around 150 AGL right on the extended centerline
and landed uneventfully. The trucks followed us dutifully back to the
ramp and presented me with a brief form to fill out. As it turned out,
the voltage regulator had died and the alternator was not happy with the
situation (major understatement). Boy, were my parents surprised to get
called back to the airport... :-)
Some general thoughts: A new pilot, or a pilot with newly acquired
skills, is like a child who hasn't yet gained the experience to know
what he doesn't know. Unfortunately, that knowledge is sometimes
necessary to keep ourselves alive. Reading and hangar flying can
certainly supplement our experience, regardless of how much we may have
at any given time in any particular area, but there's no substitute for
the experience gained by actually getting our hands on an airplane and
FLYING. My own comfort and complacency as the first flight began was
delusional. What I believe kept me alive that evening was my efforts,
in the short time since earning my private certificate, to broaden my
aviation knowledge and experience (tailwheel checkout, basic aerobatic
course, high performance/complex training, beginning my IFR training,
constant reading of everything related to aviation that came my way,
etc.), coupled with my own ability to compartmentalize, prioritize and
focus -- all of which were expressed that night by never giving up, by
thinking of possible solutions to my situation (like recalling that
recently read article) and by continuing to FLY THE AIRPLANE. In the
case of the second flight, the fact that everything concluded so
uneventfully was due almost entirely to the fact that panic never
entered into the equation and that proper training took over and ensured
a positive outcome.
My purpose in sharing these events is not to blow my own horn for having
survived, but to illustrate several things: that the best of intentions
and weather briefings will not guarantee that a VFR flight will remain
so, especially at night; that a clear head and a cool hand will see
almost any emergency to a happy conclusion (in my opinion, it is panic
that kills pilots, secondary to the actual emergent situation, whatever
it may be); that even the most thorough preflight won't prevent all
equipment failures (so don't depend on your autopilot, for example, to
assist you in conditions or in an airplane that you aren't prepared to
hand fly in those conditions); and that proper training and the
competence and confidence that result from it will see a pilot through
more often than not.
As an instructor, it's often been my observation that one can't teach
critical thinking and decision making, but only lead by example, as it
were. I imagine that it's much like parenting (I don't have any kids),
in that I regret it's not possible to show a student everything, but
merely to expose them to as many situations and environmental variables
as possible in the course of their training, in the hope that, if push
ever comes to shove in their own flying, they'll have sufficient
background to creatively work the problem.
My best advice is to continually challenge oneself to gain and maintain
new skills, including undertaking long cross-country trips that will
expose one to the 'real world' of flying, whether VFR or IFR, and garner
for oneself the experience that simply cannot be gained during trips
around one's own practice area and, in the process, gain the cumulative
experience that will serve, if necessary, in extremis.
Any other conclusions I leave to those many listers with different
experience than mine. Not greater, necessarily (though they're out
there in abundance), but different, as I believe that we all have
something to learn from each other and that each individual, from the
newest pilot to the most experienced, has seen and learned something of
value for himself and the rest of us, if only he can identify and
communicate it.
OK, that's it. I'm tired of typing, so I'm off to the garage to wrestle
with my wingtips.
--
Regards,
Ken Balch
Ashland, MA
RV-8 #81125 (N118KB)
preparing to mount engine
groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonRVBuilders/files/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paulbaird(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV 9 Quickbuild kit delayed |
I ordered an RV-9A quick build wings and fuselage on July 11th and I was told
that it would be delivered in September or October. I got the invoice
yesterday and it said that the "estimated" delivery would be December. I
called Van's and the guy in charge of scheduling the deliveries was on the
way to Oshkosh and was unavailable. Apparently because the RV7 is selling
faster, they are going to complete those quick build kits first in the
Philippines. I would have ordered a standard wing kit 6 weeks ago if they
had told me this before! I have the empenage finished and now I have 5
months to just look at it and wait.
Does anyone have any further info?
Thanks,
Paul
RV9 emp 90355
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tommy Walker" <twsurveyor(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | F-621 A & B, Canopy deck |
For those of you that have BTDT, what's the best method of riveting these parts
onto the longeron. Dimple the 621's and CS the longerons or CS the 621's (.040)?
Thanks,
Tommy
6A Ridgetop, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: F-621 A & B, Canopy deck |
if i remember correctly, the 621 is the top rail on the side of the fuse,
that the canopy rest on. if this is the case i dimpled the rail and
countersunk the longeron, remember the method, ( dimple whenever you can for
strength ) you can dimple the rail, but not the longeron. also before you
rivet this piece on, remember to drill your holes in the side bulkheads to
run your pitot tube line. It is much easier to drill it, as high as possible
while the rail is off. high as possible means a hidden tube later on. You may
want to drill 2 holes incase you will be running wires through there. if I'm
not clear on this contact me off list. I'll try and describe it better.
Scott
Tampa
wish i was at Oshkosh
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Priming procedure |
Rick, we would like to clean and prime our RV6A the same way, however I
question the idea of spraying the completed parts and then washing or
cleaning them. My question is, what happens to the acid and cleaner that
leaks under the rivets? Has the acid finished its reaction or will it keep
reacting and maybe damage or weaken the structure? I undestand that many
builders do just this so it must be OK but since we are new to the painting
proceedure we need all the help we can get.
Thanks
Rollie & Rod
Finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ENewton57(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A Gear Mount |
Marty,
Yup, I had the very same problem. I also called Vans and they said there is sometimes
variations in fuselage widths. They advised the same thing "grind the
weldment". I used a dremel tool with diamond or carbide grinding bit (I can't
remember which) and ground some weldment away. I also (with Van's blessing)
went with 3/16 bolts there at the weldment instead of the 1/4" bolts called for
in the plans. That helped create a little more clearance. I don't remember
having the "step" problem you discussed.
Goos luck,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
RV-6A N57ME (Wings on - running fuel and vent lines)
www.ericsrv6a.com
<>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Goggio" <fgoggio(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A Gear Mount |
marty, i had the same problem with my 6a,i called vans and was told the same
thing,i took the gear mouts to a machine shop and them cut away the flange
so i could get a nut on the bolt,and yes my bolt holes came through at the
weld point on the flanges just as you discribed,just as you i was wondering
if anyone else had this problem, i ask about this when i talked to vans,was
told they had never heard of this happening,makes you wonder how wide spread
this is,
frank goggio 6a fayetteville nc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Emrath" <Emrath(at)home.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 9:39 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV-6A Gear Mount
>
> I don't know if this applies to the other -A planes, but I'm having a hard
> time fitting in my mounts on my -6A. It seems two of my bolt holes came
> through on a weld point on each of my weldments. The bolt clears the
> weldment but the hole won't allow for a washer and nut. I called Vans and
> they said I could grind away the weldment at that point all I needed to
get
> the nut on. Luckily, a friend is an A&P and knew about some metal lock
nuts
> which are smaller and used all the time on the big iron and shared a few
> with me so I don't have to grind as much as otherwise for the nylon lock
> nuts.
>
> Also, two of the holes on each weldment came through right on the edge of
> places where on plate overlaps another plates flange, I'm mean the edge of
> the flange is covering only half the hole making a step right at the
> location where one is to put a washer and nut. In one case, the step is on
> the spar side, so is it OK to have a space of 1/2 the hole between the
spar
> and the weldment?
>
> I'm wondering if others have these problems and what they did to solve
them.
> also, is everyone priming the inside of their nicely powder coated
weldments
> in the area not contacting the gear leg?
>
> Marty in Brentwood, TN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "M. E. Asher" <mcash(at)silverstar.com> |
I had the same problem drilling the axle holes for the cotter key.
My solution was to count the turns to position the key correctly back it
off and remove the wheel, put the nut into the proper position and drill
one hole from each side of the nut. I don`t believe you can drill both
holes from one side and have them in the correct place. Drill
horizontally. I think I used about four bits, the yellow kind. Very
hard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | LOM M332A engine support |
Hi All,
I have already mentioned that there is a new LOM M332A engine available for
$8,000 outright.
I should have added the Joe Krybus, of Krybus Aviation in Santa Paula,
California, has the cowl, engine mount, external oil tank and numerous
additional hardware available for this installation onto a RV-3. Joe can be
reached at (805) 525-8764.
Joe is exceptionally knowledgeable about the LOM engines, and has been a
great help to me in getting my RV-3 flying.
Jim Ayers
RV-3 N47RV LOM M332A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Will be signing off, heading to OSH Monday. Hope to meet many RV
friends.
Jack
DSM
RV8, wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Not very RV related |
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
Larry, I to was blessed to see the Vimy this past week. Four of us left
Camarillo CA for a hop over to Flaybob to see the Vimy.
As we were passing Brackett Field we saw it was still there at Brackett.
So we stopped there to see it up close and take photos.
We watched it take off and do a flyby, by the way there were four people
in it. The lady had the nose position and there was a guy in the luggage
space. in the back. As it flew by you can hear (it seems) all the wires
talking. We took off after it did for the 10 minute hop to flaybob. It
landed 10 minutes after us.
July 17, 2001 - July 22, 2001
RV-Archive.digest.vol-le