RV-Archive.digest.vol-lg
July 28, 2001 - August 02, 2001
any experience or performance data for this combination?
Allen Checca
6A QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airfoil Template |
Don't use the airfoil template anyway..it's grossly
innacurate. Ask me how I know...I'm re-rigging my
airplane right now. The entire wing was designed off
of the tooling holes for reference. Use a straight
egde along the outboard wing rib and aileron rib and
connect the dots. You will have a perfectly accurate
position for the aileron.
====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
First Flight 7/22/01
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip up canopy handle |
Wrap it with a piece of your interior fabric, then
install.
Paul
--- Keith Hughes wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone know of anyway to make the RV-6 tip up
> canopy handle and plastic
> mounting block look better? I seem to remember that
> Jim Baker had his
> chrome plated. Also, the block looks a little
> rough, and when I attempt to
> sand the edges, it removes the burrs, but the block
> looks like it has been
> sanded. I'm thinking that since it sits at the top
> of the canopy, it will
> be pretty visible.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Keith Hughes
> RV-6, Parker, CO
> Canopy
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tom sargent <sarg314(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Location and Type |
bert murillo wrote:
>
>
> --- tom sargent wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dean:
> > I took the advice of one of the guys at Vans
> > and mounted both the ELT
> > AND the antenna on the wing end rib under the
> > fiberglass wing tip. Here
----> snip <-------
> Tom:
> The only thing I can think, is what happens if
> the plane get upside down, or if you need to take the
> unit out, to transmit... Mine has that option, that
> is if survived, one can take the unit out to transmit
> it has another extra antena as well...
>
> >From all the builders, i have talked to, they have
> the antena in the bagage compratment, and does not
> seems to alter the range...
>
> I will put mine , the unit and antena on baggage
> area, on side of fuselage..
>
> Just my opinion only..
>
> Bert
> rv6a
>
Well, upside down or not, if I can get the wing tip off I can get the
ELT out. My fiberglass wingtips are held on with screws, so that
requires a screw driver and no injuries serious enough to prevent me
from taking the screws out. I'm sure I'll always have a screw driver
with me. So, with that caveat, yes, I can remove it.
--
Tom Sargent.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airfoil Template |
Tom,
I didn't use the template for my -6. I hung the wing TE up, strung some
dental floss as plumb bobs off each end. Line up the tooling holes in the
ribs with the holes in the aileron & flap. Sight the TE of both when you
have them jigged in place. Verify the aileron is not protruding below the
wing. Verify the above once again & drill the mount brackets.
If this is the wrong method, then please don't tell my airplane that.
Rick Caldwell
251 hrs. -6
melbourne, FL
>From: Tom Crawford <toys(at)ufl.edu>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Airfoil Template
>Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 17:00:57 -0400
>
>
>I am finishing a wing kit that I bought second hand. I do not have the
>airfoil template that comes with the kit. Now that it's time to mount
>the flaps and ailerons, I'm in a bit of a jam. Any suggestions?
>
>
>--
>Tom Crawford
>Gainesville, FL
>N262TC Flying
>N???TC Wings
>Mailto:toys(at)ufl.edu
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hurlbut" <shurlbut(at)island.net> |
There was an ad a few weeks ago for a RV-8 tail in the Toronto area.
I may have an interested party if still available. Please contact me.
Steve Hurlbut
Comox, BC
shurlbut(at)island.net
RV-7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Hodge <skyjack31(at)yahoo.com> |
Does anyone have a source for the 1" oil breather
hose. ASSC costs too much. Auto parts stores only go
to 3/4" Thsnks, Jack HRII
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Is it possible to have a cowl with no snoot when using a carbureted engine?
I've always thought smooth bottom cowl = injected engine and snoot = carb'ed
engine. Is this always the case?
If not, what's the trick to using the smooth cowl and carb combo? Any
problem/drawbacks/etc?
Larry Bowen
RV-8 canoe
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Breather hose |
--- Jack Hodge wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone have a source for the 1" oil breather
> hose. ASSC costs too much. Auto parts stores only go
> to 3/4" Thsnks, Jack HRII
Home Depot or clones.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas Mosher" <tmosher(at)gbronline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Location and Type |
----- Original Message -----
From: "tom sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: ELT Antenna Location and Type
>
> bert murillo wrote:
> >
> >
> > --- tom sargent wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Dean:
> > > I took the advice of one of the guys at Vans
> > > and mounted both the ELT
> > > AND the antenna on the wing end rib under the
> > > fiberglass wing tip. Here
> ----> snip <-------
> > Tom:
> > The only thing I can think, is what happens if
> > the plane get upside down, or if you need to take the
> > unit out, to transmit... Mine has that option, that
> > is if survived, one can take the unit out to transmit
> > it has another extra antena as well...
> >
> > >From all the builders, i have talked to, they have
> > the antena in the bagage compratment, and does not
> > seems to alter the range...
> >
> > I will put mine , the unit and antena on baggage
> > area, on side of fuselage..
> >
> > Just my opinion only..
> >
> > Bert
> > rv6a
> >
> Well, upside down or not, if I can get the wing tip off I can get the
> ELT out. My fiberglass wingtips are held on with screws, so that
> requires a screw driver and no injuries serious enough to prevent me
> from taking the screws out. I'm sure I'll always have a screw driver
> with me. So, with that caveat, yes, I can remove it.
> --
> Tom Sargent.
>
>
Putting an ELT in the wing-tip to me sort of defeats the purpose of having
one - 1. how are you going to get to it if you have an accident, 2. you'll
have to take the wing-tip off every year to inspect it, 3. you'll have to
run the wires for the remote switch/light required by TSO, 4. it defeats the
requirement for mounting it as far aft as practical (FAR requirement).
Tom
N787RV (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ET - #PU <psi(at)hillweb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Breather hose |
Home Depot or Lowe's ! :-)
Vlad
>
>
>Does anyone have a source for the 1" oil breather
>hose. ASSC costs too much. Auto parts stores only go
>to 3/4" Thsnks, Jack HRII
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Breather hose |
Jack,
I found mine at NAPA auto store.
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Hodge" <skyjack31(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 7:33 PM
Subject: RV-List: Breather hose
>
>
> Does anyone have a source for the 1" oil breather
> hose. ASSC costs too much. Auto parts stores only go
> to 3/4" Thsnks, Jack HRII
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
You'll probably get a better answer than this later but for starters:
The carbureted engines have updraft carburetors mounted on the bottom of the
oil sump = meaning they are well below the engine.
The injected models have injectors that run into the side of the oil sump on
the front or the rear of the engine, so there's nothing hanging down below
the engine. You can have a smooth lower cowl this way, if you take air from
the engine baffle area and run it to the injector. This is what van uses in
the smoothcowl 8s.
If you wanted to do this on a carbureted engine, youd have to make something
similiar to vans snorkel, but it would plug into the bottom of the carb
instead of the front of the injector... so it would probably hang down below
cowl level.
I think the closest you could get would be that, but you'd have a bulge in
the bottom of the cowl...
Or, you could go exploring. Some of the lycoming models, like the O-360-A1G
do have horizontal draft carburetors, but then you'd have to find one, get
it rebuilt and fight to make it work with your custom induction... It would
be easier just to get an injected engine, but it might be fun to fight it
and make the carb engine work.
Enjoy!
Matthew
8A canopy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry Bowen
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 8:12 PM
Subject: RV-List: cowl
Is it possible to have a cowl with no snoot when using a carbureted engine?
I've always thought smooth bottom cowl = injected engine and snoot = carb'ed
engine. Is this always the case?
If not, what's the trick to using the smooth cowl and carb combo? Any
problem/drawbacks/etc?
Larry Bowen
RV-8 canoe
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Haan <bhaan(at)easystreet.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin 295 flush mount how to pictures on web |
Hi,
Several RV-Listers noticed on my web page in some 360 degree animated
pictures, the flush mounted Garmin 295 in the panel and asked for more
pictures on how it was done.
We finally got some pictures up on my web page. See URL below.
Included is a picture of the bezel plus 2 rulers positioned like an x and y
axis. Print this picture and use it as an accurate template for generating
you own bezel. This can be accomplished by adjusting the scale in your
printer setup until the length of these rulers in a print-out exactly
matches your rulers.
While you are there, take a look at the data sheet for the Wig Wag Solid
State Controller for leading edge lights.
Enjoy,
Bob
RV6A almost
http://easytstreet.com/~bhaan/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Good Avionics Book?? |
Can anyone recommend a good Avionics book for installation and wiring of
radios, transponder, antenna's, gages, etc? I know there are a lot of books
out there, but I'm sure some are better and more encompassing than others.
Thanks
-Mike
RV-4 Fuse almost done....
From: N8292W(at)aol.com
Full-name: N8292W
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 16:29:07 EDT
Subject: Good Avionics Book
Can anyone recommend a good Avionics book for installation and wiring of
radios, transponder, antenna's, gages, etc? I know there are a lot of books
out there, but I'm sure some are better and more encompassing than others.
Thanks
-Mike
RV-4 Fuse almost done....
Can anyone recommend a good Avionics book for installation and wiring of
radios, transponder, antenna's, gages, etc? I know there are a lot of books
out there, but I'm sure some are better and more encompassing than others.
Thanks
-Mike
RV-4 Fuse almost done....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John & Teresa Huft" <widgeon92L(at)email.msn.com> |
I will be going for the 6 th consecutive year, the Colorado Pilots Assn.
have a box seat there.
Carson City or Truckee are the cheapest places to flyin to. Last year
tiedowns were $25/day at Reno Cannon. This year we are going to flyin to
South Lake Tahoe, the rent cars are cheaper there. Last Friday a friend
found a room at Circus Circus downtown. Silver Legacy and Eldorado are right
there too. A shuttle runs to the races every day.
It is not possible to fly in to Stead unless you know someone. It closes
Monday of race week.
It is guaranteed to get your race fever going. Be sure to buy a pit pass and
look closely at the streamlining on the formula 1 racers (250 mph on O-200
engines).
John
RV8qb half done
Pagosa Springs, CO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Im7shannon(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 12:29 PM
Subject: RV-List: Reno Air Races
Hi All, how many of us are going to the Races? Are any Northwest RVs
planning
the trip? Being a first timer I would appreciate any advice about where to
stay, can you land right at the races, or do you have to deplane elsewhere
and drive, where is the best brothel, does this brothel have a runway, if so
do they allow nose wheel RVs, etc., etc.
Thanks Kevin -9A in WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Streit <wooody98(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 295 flush mount how to pictures on web |
Bob, You misspelled easystreet (easytstreet.con/) in your link, you may want
to repost your message
Jim Streit
90073 wings
Bob Haan wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Several RV-Listers noticed on my web page in some 360 degree animated
> pictures, the flush mounted Garmin 295 in the panel and asked for more
> pictures on how it was done.
>
> We finally got some pictures up on my web page. See URL below.
>
> Included is a picture of the bezel plus 2 rulers positioned like an x and y
> axis. Print this picture and use it as an accurate template for generating
> you own bezel. This can be accomplished by adjusting the scale in your
> printer setup until the length of these rulers in a print-out exactly
> matches your rulers.
>
> While you are there, take a look at the data sheet for the Wig Wag Solid
> State Controller for leading edge lights.
>
> Enjoy,
>
> Bob
>
> RV6A almost
> http://easytstreet.com/~bhaan/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | doyal plute <dplute(at)onemain.com> |
| Subject: | Speedometer ext. cable? |
I am using the 12" speedometer extension on my RV6A. What is the most
practical way to mount this and the sender? If I mount it on the engine
side of the firewall it will have to have a pretty sharp bend (not
good)! I think maybe-run cable through a rubber grommet to cockpit
side of firewall and mount it somewhere there. Anyone out there have
any ideas on this subject?
Also-are most of you installing the inst. panel to be removable, or just
riveting it in permanent?
Thanks for any help:
Sincerely
Doyal R./ Plute resv.N4DP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Airfoil Template |
I've got an extra printed one...If you want it I had a bunch printed up and
made three for my own use - after I trimmed them to fit they worked fine for
me.
Haven't flown yet so I don't know.
Printing/mailing costs and I'll send you one (or more). Not trying to make
any money here - just keeping even...
Let Me know.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Crawford" <toys(at)ufl.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 4:00 PM
Subject: RV-List: Airfoil Template
I am finishing a wing kit that I bought second hand. I do not have the
airfoil template that comes with the kit. Now that it's time to mount
the flaps and ailerons, I'm in a bit of a jam. Any suggestions?
--
Tom Crawford
Gainesville, FL
N262TC Flying
N???TC Wings
Mailto:toys(at)ufl.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tom sargent <sarg314(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Location and Type |
Thomas Mosher wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tom sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 8:23 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: ELT Antenna Location and Type
>
> >
> > bert murillo wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > --- tom sargent wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dean:
> > > > I took the advice of one of the guys at Vans
> > > > and mounted both the ELT
> > > > AND the antenna on the wing end rib under the
> > > > fiberglass wing tip. Here
> > ----> snip <-------
> > > Tom:
> > > The only thing I can think, is what happens if
> > > the plane get upside down, or if you need to take the
> > > unit out, to transmit... Mine has that option, that
> > > is if survived, one can take the unit out to transmit
> > > it has another extra antena as well...
> > > Bert
> > > rv6a
> > >
> > Well, upside down or not, if I can get the wing tip off I can get the
> > ELT out. My fiberglass wingtips are held on with screws, so that
> > requires a screw driver and no injuries serious enough to prevent me
> > from taking the screws out. I'm sure I'll always have a screw driver
> > with me. So, with that caveat, yes, I can remove it.
> > --
> > Tom Sargent.
> >
> >
> Putting an ELT in the wing-tip to me sort of defeats the purpose of having
> one - 1. how are you going to get to it if you have an accident, 2. you'll
> have to take the wing-tip off every year to inspect it, 3. you'll have to
> run the wires for the remote switch/light required by TSO, 4. it defeats the
> requirement for mounting it as far aft as practical (FAR requirement).
>
> Tom
> N787RV (reserved)
To get to it you remove the fiberglass wingtip. That's 10 or 15 minutes
with a screw driver (= the swiss army knife on my keychain) - I've done
it several times during construction. I expect to take the wingtips off
more than once a year just to inspect the wing anyway. In addition to
the ELT I have position lights, strobe and landing light in that same
wing. All that just required a single 1/2" O.D. conduit to carry the
wires in addition to what Vans put in the kit originally. So, I don't
think I have any more wiring in the wing than the typical RV, if that's
what you mean.
The wingtip location optimizes for ELT transmission with no antenna
drag and a reduced likelihood of accidental activation. The downside is
decreased accessibility and slightly reduced survivability in a crash.
Airplane design is all trade-offs.
--
Tom Sargent.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | ELT Antenna Location |
I don't recall the number right now, but I know there is a TSO on ELT's that
requires that the antenna be mounted EXTERNALLY to the airframe.
FWIW John at Salida RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: Speedometer ext. cable? |
Doyal: I mounted my Tach Sender on the inside of the firewall (Less Heat
and Straight cable run). Take some Clear Mylar and make a template of the
back of the sender (Note small anti-rotation post).
Put template on firewall allowing a straight cable run and drill to
attach sender. On your second question my panel will be removable.
Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: doyal plute <dplute(at)onemain.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 10:43 AM
Subject: RV6-List: Speedometer ext. cable?
> --> RV6-List message posted by: doyal plute
>
> I am using the 12" speedometer extension on my RV6A. What is the most
> practical way to mount this and the sender? If I mount it on the engine
> side of the firewall it will have to have a pretty sharp bend (not
> good)! I think maybe-run cable through a rubber grommet to cockpit
> side of firewall and mount it somewhere there. Anyone out there have
> any ideas on this subject?
>
> Also-are most of you installing the inst. panel to be removable, or just
> riveting it in permanent?
>
> Thanks for any help:
> Sincerely
> Doyal R./ Plute resv.N4DP
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david <davidagr(at)emirates.net.ae> |
| Subject: | Airfoil Template |
Tom,
Another method to assure alignment is to use two sets of clamps made from 2
inch wide strips of wood about 6 foot long, clamped to the front spar at the
front and squeezed together at the rear - this gives an absolute perfect
wing profile. A bit of measurement using the tooling holes, temporary
clamping of hinge assemblies and your done.
David Roseblade
RV6A fuselage
Dubai, UAE
Persian Gulf
Hot and humid (46 degrees C and 95%)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Crawford
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 1:01 AM
Subject: RV-List: Airfoil Template
I am finishing a wing kit that I bought second hand. I do not have the
airfoil template that comes with the kit. Now that it's time to mount
the flaps and ailerons, I'm in a bit of a jam. Any suggestions?
--
Tom Crawford
Gainesville, FL
N262TC Flying
N???TC Wings
Mailto:toys(at)ufl.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david <davidagr(at)emirates.net.ae> |
| Subject: | Orientation of F612 |
Listers,
I am building a RV6A, the plans call for a single F612 (rear bulkhead)
orientated flange forward, Ordoff's videos show flange to the rear. My
question is that if you fit the F612 flange forward in the jig at the
measurement specified and trim the skin to the flange, the fuselage will be
approx 0.75" shorter - not good. The alternatives would be to trim as
required by the V/S and leave the skin simply unsupported, or move the
flange approx 0.75" further back.
Your comments please.
David Roseblade
RV6A Fuselage
UAE, Persian Gulf.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 5th Point Installation (longish) |
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
> It could also be that the difference between the G's to break Van's
> latches and those to break Rob's would kill the pilot anyway...
Recent auto racing experience has shown that the human body, properly
supported, can withstand a lot more acceleration than we used to think.
There have been walk-away crashes in Indy cars at more than 100 G into the
belts.
Tedd
________________________________________________________________________________
> Is it possible to have a cowl with no snoot when using a carbureted
engine?
> I've always thought smooth bottom cowl = injected engine and snoot
carb'ed
> engine. Is this always the case?
>
> If not, what's the trick to using the smooth cowl and carb combo? Any
> problem/drawbacks/etc?
>
> Larry Bowen
> RV-8 canoe
> Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> Web: http://BowenAero.com
Larry, not possible. See my Cowl/Plenum page for proof...
http://www.rv-8.com/Cowl.htm
Look about halfway down the page
Regards,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, N558RL, 85 hrs since 5/3/01
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Card Compass |
On my tip up, I put it on the glareshield with no
problems...works just like it should. I have a 1/4"
padded dash mat that may cut down on interference.
====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
First Flight 7/22/01
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 5th Point Installation |
Those G numbers need to include the duration of the G-force and the time
from the start of acceleraton/deceleration to MAX G. Most of the
heavier G-forces only last for thousandths/hundredths or tenths of
seconds. IIRC, the older style ejection seats in Vietnam-era jets had
mind-boggling G-forces, but only lasted for several thousandths of a
second. However, the forces were amplified if the pilot was not
"tightly" secured by his harness to the seat pan--which is why we often
re-tightened our straps in an inverted or negative G maneuver. A lot of
spinal compression fractures on ejection and injuries in a forced
landing happened to pilots who had loosened their straps to "be more
comfortable" or to be able turn their bodies more freely to keep sight
of the bogey.
A previous poster was correct in reminding us that the shoulder belts
are to keep us from going forward and should cross the shoulders in a
horizontal plane as to prevent undo pressure on the spine. The lap and
crotch straps keep us from going "up". It's false economy to build a
"perfect" plane and then scrimp on your safety harness. A 5-point
harness should be accepted as the standard. It's not that
uncomfortable--you get used to it.
As to the difference in latches/straps, it's not the breaking point but
the stretch of the strap material that can get you into trouble.
Boyd.
Tedd McHenry wrote:
>
>
> > It could also be that the difference between the G's to break Van's
> > latches and those to break Rob's would kill the pilot anyway...
>
> Recent auto racing experience has shown that the human body, properly
> supported, can withstand a lot more acceleration than we used to think.
> There have been walk-away crashes in Indy cars at more than 100 G into the
> belts.
>
> Tedd
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AV8TURDON(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Updating a Garmin GNC-250XL |
It's not supposed to cost anything. Garmin Dealers should do it for free.
Mine was recently done. The unit was 5 years old.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com> |
Tail For Sale (airplane) : )
RV-8 empennage kit for sale. Electric elevator trim option, provision for
tail light. Purchased September 2000 - still in box.
$1295 firm. Buyer pays shipping. Located in Pittsburgh, PA.
E-mail me at: IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com
Tim Bronson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tommy Walker" <twsurveyor(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Orientation of F612 |
David, I installed the 612 with the flange forward because that's the way the "videos"
showed it. If I had it to do over again, I would install it with the flange
to the rear. It gives the aft skin some "meat" to stiffen it up! On my fuselage
the aft skin is very weak and flimsy. I've thought about putting a couple
of pieces of .032 angle back there to stiffen it up. The only draw back to
facing the flanges to the rear is that the flanges have to be bent in quite a
bit to match the contours of the fuselage. Also with the rear facing flanges
it would give more room for the rear
inspection plates! Most people trim the rear of the fuselage even with the vertical
stab.
Good luck,
Tommy
6A finishing fuselage
Ridgetop, TN
----- Original Message -----
From: david
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 1:01 PM
Subject: RV-List: Orientation of F612
Listers,
I am building a RV6A, the plans call for a single F612 (rear bulkhead)
orientated flange forward, Ordoff's videos show flange to the rear. My
question is that if you fit the F612 flange forward in the jig at the
measurement specified and trim the skin to the flange, the fuselage will
be
approx 0.75" shorter - not good. The alternatives would be to trim as
required by the V/S and leave the skin simply unsupported, or move the
flange approx 0.75" further back.
Your comments please.
David Roseblade
RV6A Fuselage
UAE, Persian Gulf.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | tank anti rotation clip |
I am working on fuel tank access cover plate. Plans call for a piece of AA6
125 1x1 to be fabricated to make the anti rotation clip for fuel line elbow.
I seem not to have this, but DO have AA6 125 3/4x3x4.
Did I miss this when I inventoried? Can I use the 3/4x3/4 to make this?
BTW, building a prepunched 6, wing kit about a yr. old.
Thanks, Bob in Arkansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | AA (angle) question |
Perhaps someone can help me with the numbers following the AA 125?
I thought I knew but obviously I do not. Please see my prior post and it may
help explain my dilemma. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | tank anti rotation clip |
You can use the left-over's from the same piece you make the tank/fuselage
attach angles with (T-405's I believe). Just cut it to the required 1x1.
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bobpaulo(at)aol.com
Sent: July 29, 2001 6:27 PM
Subject: RV-List: tank anti rotation clip
I am working on fuel tank access cover plate. Plans call for a piece of AA6
125 1x1 to be fabricated to make the anti rotation clip for fuel line elbow.
I seem not to have this, but DO have AA6 125 3/4x3x4.
Did I miss this when I inventoried? Can I use the 3/4x3/4 to make this?
BTW, building a prepunched 6, wing kit about a yr. old.
Thanks, Bob in Arkansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | tank anti rotation clip |
Sorry, I made a mistake. I used the left-overs from FL-406A (Flap attach
angle). All the beer at Oshkosh must have affected my memory... :) This
angle is .125.
If you haven't made the flap yet, make sure you measure the required lengths
for the flap first so you will have enough left.
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Are Barstad
Sent: July 29, 2001 7:10 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: tank anti rotation clip
You can use the left-over's from the same piece you make the tank/fuselage
attach angles with (T-405's I believe). Just cut it to the required 1x1.
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bobpaulo(at)aol.com
Sent: July 29, 2001 6:27 PM
Subject: RV-List: tank anti rotation clip
I am working on fuel tank access cover plate. Plans call for a piece of AA6
125 1x1 to be fabricated to make the anti rotation clip for fuel line elbow.
I seem not to have this, but DO have AA6 125 3/4x3x4.
Did I miss this when I inventoried? Can I use the 3/4x3/4 to make this?
BTW, building a prepunched 6, wing kit about a yr. old.
Thanks, Bob in Arkansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrjb(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Propeller (flight testing and 2600 limitation) |
long
> Hello All: Talked to the Senenich Propeller Rep at Oshkosh this week, I
> asked about the restriction on the 0-320 engine. He said they had just
> completed the test a few days ago, and the 2600 RPM restriction will
> remain. They could not cure the vibration problem without performance
> loss, so they decided to leave as is.
> Harvey Sigmon RV-6AQB N602RV
Harvey,
Ken DeGraff came down to Fla with a 79 inch pitch instrumented prop and we
flew a retest of their previous test before I did my flight to Alaska in
June. Ken is a very talented and tenacious guy. His computer harddrive went
belly up on startup after we had the prop and its associated recording
equipment all mounted for testing on a tuesday evening. He worked long and
hard hours to get it ready to finally get a good flight off the following
monday just before he had to run for his flight home. We actually flew a
number of times after he got the computer going, but the data was not clean.
Finally we traced it to an antennae coax cable shorting and then got the
good flight off.
Bottom line is DO NOT IGNORE THE 2600 RPM RESTRICTION.
There are really few failures worse than a departing blade and engine. You
will probably have some time to think about it on the way down, but not a
darn thing you can do to stop the resulting impact. You may say well I've
been doing it and nothing has happened!! This is an accumulative destruction
and if it gets to the end of the string, it can ruin your day!!
I still think it is one of the most efficient and reliable props out there
for an 0-320 installation. My 80 inch prop continues to deliver great cruise
performance. I just flew Fort Pierce Fla (FL37) to Memphis (OLV) non stop
both ways (766 sm)and averaged over 180mph. Had over an hour of fuel
reserve. Not bad for a 6A with that training wheel hanging up front.
Bernie Kerr, SE Fla, 6A , 190 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tank anti rotation clip |
The anti-rotation bracket is a retrofit and I'm not surprised there is not
material in the kit. This is easily remedied, just order some from Van's.
BTW, I made a second set wider than the specs call for which made it easier
to rivet on. My bracket can be seen at...
http://www.rv-8.com/Wings.htm
Randy Lervold
RV-8, N558RL, 85 hrs
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
----- Original Message -----
From: <Bobpaulo(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 3:27 PM
Subject: RV-List: tank anti rotation clip
>
> I am working on fuel tank access cover plate. Plans call for a piece of
AA6
> 125 1x1 to be fabricated to make the anti rotation clip for fuel line
elbow.
> I seem not to have this, but DO have AA6 125 3/4x3x4.
> Did I miss this when I inventoried? Can I use the 3/4x3/4 to make this?
> BTW, building a prepunched 6, wing kit about a yr. old.
> Thanks, Bob in Arkansas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nancy and Walter Shipley" <wshipley(at)esper.com> |
Matthew Gelber wrote:
> The injected models have injectors that run into the side of the oil sump
on
> the front or the rear of the engine, so there's nothing hanging down
below
> the engine. You can have a smooth lower cowl this way, if you take air
from
> the engine baffle area and run it to the injector. This is what van uses
in
> the smoothcowl 8s.
Not ALL injected engines have injectors that run into the side of the oil
sump. I have an IO-360 B4A which has the injection servo mounted on the
bottome of the sump and uses a "snorkel" type bottom cowl. Van's RV8A has
the angled valve, 200hp IO-360, which, as you say, does use the smooth
lower cowl.
No flame intended.
Walt Shipley RV8A Finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stripped screws... |
I've been looking for some 100 deg hex head stainless screws with no luck so
far. I anyone reading this can point me in the direction where they KNOW
they can get some hex head stainless screws I'd be appreciative.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Balch" <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 4:02 PM
Subject: RV-List: Stripped screws...
>
> OK, am I crazy here, or are the AN515-8R8 screws that we all received
> with our kits next to worthless? No matter how carefully I turn them,
> the phillips heads seem to strip out of at least 40% of them.
>
> Has anyone else had this trouble? Is there an equivalent screw (pan
> head, 8-32, 1/2") in stainless? What AN or MS number? I checked my
> Spruce catalog and was unable to locate an exact replacement. Any
> ideas?
>
> --
> Regards,
> Ken Balch
> Ashland, MA
> RV-8 #81125 (N118KB)
> mounting wings
> groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonRVBuilders/files/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | tank anti rotation clip |
The anti-rotation bracket was added to the drawings in August '99 (September
'99 for the -6), hence no longer retrofit if you bought your kit a year ago.
Van's supplied you with a 10" AA6-125X1 1/2X2 angle stock. Each of the two
brackets for the flap needs to be 3" (offset cut included) so it leaves 4"
of angle stock to use for anti rotation brackets. I still have 2" left in my
'left-over bin'.
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy Lervold
Sent: July 29, 2001 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: tank anti rotation clip
The anti-rotation bracket is a retrofit and I'm not surprised there is not
material in the kit. This is easily remedied, just order some from Van's.
BTW, I made a second set wider than the specs call for which made it easier
to rivet on. My bracket can be seen at...
http://www.rv-8.com/Wings.htm
Randy Lervold
RV-8, N558RL, 85 hrs
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
----- Original Message -----
From: <Bobpaulo(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 3:27 PM
Subject: RV-List: tank anti rotation clip
>
> I am working on fuel tank access cover plate. Plans call for a piece of
AA6
> 125 1x1 to be fabricated to make the anti rotation clip for fuel line
elbow.
> I seem not to have this, but DO have AA6 125 3/4x3x4.
> Did I miss this when I inventoried? Can I use the 3/4x3/4 to make this?
> BTW, building a prepunched 6, wing kit about a yr. old.
> Thanks, Bob in Arkansas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Streit <wooody98(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tank anti rotation clip |
Bob, The 3/4 x 3/4 is not big enough. you have to drill a 9/6" hole and there
is not enough room on 3/4" angle material.
I am building an RV-9 and my parts call out the same material for the
antirotation bracket. There was 2 pieces of AA6 x 125 x 1 x 1 (each piece of
angle was 2" long). They were in a plastic bag with flap brackets and other
misc. parts that had been cut out by Vans. Go back and check the sheet when you
first did your inventory. That will tell you that there were in the kit and
maybe you just misplaced them Look through all of your clear plastic bags and
hopefully you will find them. If not there call vans and they will send them
out.
Jim Streit
90073 wings
Bobpaulo(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I am working on fuel tank access cover plate. Plans call for a piece of AA6
> 125 1x1 to be fabricated to make the anti rotation clip for fuel line elbow.
> I seem not to have this, but DO have AA6 125 3/4x3x4.
> Did I miss this when I inventoried? Can I use the 3/4x3/4 to make this?
> BTW, building a prepunched 6, wing kit about a yr. old.
> Thanks, Bob in Arkansas
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net> |
"Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com"
| Subject: | Forward Baggage Door Latch Blocks... |
Well......I was ALMOST done with my baggage door, just a few finishing
touches and I was done, one of the latch block was off a hair, but I could
live with it.....and then I drilled the other *$@#
&% block into something
far from what it was supposed to look like and then proceeded to launch it
over the neighbors house and into their back yard... In any event, I need
to make some new ones... Anyone made these out of wood? Or something other
than the plastic blocks?
Other than that, I got my antennas mounted, my panel painted, the baggage
door is done other than the blocks.....I will post some new pix to my
website in the morning...
I hope you all had fun at Oshkosh while I was home working like a dog!
Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A - N8VD
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain Avionics |
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
The fear I have is that one of the guys selling for big bucks gives Greg
a deal he can't refuse, and buy him out.
Cecil
>
> Yes, Blue Mountain was there, and their EFIS-One is a stunning piece
> of
> equipment!
>
> Greg Richter was demonstrating the latest version of the unit that
> has a
> wonder box that replaces the vacuum gyros on the system detailed on
> the
> website. The entire system is now self contained and solid state.
>
> I was totally blown away by the capabilities of the EFIS considering
> the
> price tag. Richter appears to be a very smart feller who no doubt
> will
> be adding enhancements to the unit as they are used in the field.
> Matter
> of fact, he said he will soon be shipping the units with optional
> auto-pilot servos!
>
> I suspect this little company, if it can stay on track, is going to
> turn
> the EFIS community on its ear; the product is that impressive, and
> the
> price point is tens of thousands less than the TSO'ed units.
>
> Sam Buchanan (RV-6.......with a new panel in the future???)
> http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | another anti-rotation bracket question |
Sorry to be so dumb here, but is the intent of the bracket to keep the
fitting from moving when attaching the fuel line from the other (inboard)
side OR is it intended to keep the nut (inside tank) that holds the fuel pick
up line from coming undone. The pix in the manual show the bracket around the
soft tube up next to the nut which would lead me to believe that if attached
this way it could conceivable to both. However the plans show the bracket up
next to the bend in the elbow fitting. Thought guys, Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | another anti-rotation bracket question |
It's only intended to stop the pick-up tube from rotating when you tighten
the nut on the outside. There was an accident (non-fatal) where this was the
cause.
You can read about the mod here:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/anti-rotat.pdf
It is a good idea (as Randy mentioned), to make them a little wider than
what the drawings show for easier reach to rivets.
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bobpaulo(at)aol.com
Sent: July 29, 2001 10:57 PM
Subject: RV-List: another anti-rotation bracket question
Sorry to be so dumb here, but is the intent of the bracket to keep the
fitting from moving when attaching the fuel line from the other (inboard)
side OR is it intended to keep the nut (inside tank) that holds the fuel
pick
up line from coming undone. The pix in the manual show the bracket around
the
soft tube up next to the nut which would lead me to believe that if attached
this way it could conceivable to both. However the plans show the bracket up
next to the bend in the elbow fitting. Thought guys, Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Questions about LOM powered RV-3 |
>Hi Don,
>I'm also mounting the first production VS COM antenna fairing on my RV3.
>>=A0 What is?
I have a Sportcraft COM antenna mounted on top of the vertical stabilizer on
my RV3. It requires a fairing to enclose it. The original fairing was 10"
tall, compared to the standard VS tips which are about 2" tall.
I have had a mold made off of my original fairing, and am now starting to get
parts made from the mold.
The drag from this installation calculates out to about 1/4 the drag of a
wire antenna. More importantly, the antenna location is optimum.
>The LOM M332A engine produces 140 hp for takeoff and climb (2700 RPM >and 35
in hg) with the supercharger engaged.=A0 And 115 hp for max continuous >power
(2550 RPM and 29 in hg) with the supercharger disengaged.
>>=A0 Do you ever use the supercharger to maintain MP at 10-12K feet?
I have. The performance charts indicate a very high fuel flow (.55 to .6
#/hp hr) with the supercharger engaged. Compared to normal cruise (.43 #/ hp
hr).
The O-290 with a Warnke prop gave me 196 mph true at 7,500' density altitude.
The LOM M332A with a Warnke prop gives me 196 mph true at 7,500' density
altitude without the supercharger engaged. (Different Warnke prop. The LOM
turns opposite to a Lyc.)
Van shows the service ceiling for the Lyc. O-290 in an RV-3 as 23,000'.
For that horsepower, the LOM M332A would have a service ceiling of 20,000'
without the supercharger, and 29,000' with the supercharger.
--->=A0 Is the M332 the largest displacement 4 cyl LOM?
Yes.
The M332A can produce 140 hp.
The M332B can produce 160 hp.
The M332C can produce 172 hp.
>>=A0 How does it's weight compare to the 290?
>>thx, dw
My original LOM 28 volt system installation weighed about 15 pounds more than
the O-290 installation (12 volt system). I have removed 12 pounds of engine
accessory weight from the RV-3 in converting it to a 12 volt system.
The LOM M332A 12 volt system installation is around 3 pounds heavier than the
O-290 12 volt system installation. However, the M332A engine is about a foot
longer than the O-290 engine, so the CG shifts forward slightly.
Having said that, I will need to weigh my RV-3 to find out where the CG
really is. So far, I've removed at least 35 pounds from the empty weight of
my RV-3.
Jim Ayers
RV-3 N47RV LOM M332A
PS For my RV-3, 15 pounds of aircraft weight equals 1 mph.
I'm working on another 4 mph, personally. :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duane Bentley" <dbentley(at)fuse.net> |
| Subject: | RV6 QB V.S. Installation |
The RV6 QB kit comes with the tail wheel support already bolted in place,
both fore and aft, in the end of the fuselage. The aft flange has three
1/4" bolts through the last bulkhead are these bolts are also intended to
bolt through the lower end of the Vertical Stabilizer, per Dwg. 34. If I
take out those three bolts, put the V.S. in place, securely clamped where I
want it, how do you physically get in that cavity to back drill the bolt
holes through the last bulkhead and the V.S.? Is there some best practice
that anyone has used that you could suggest?
I looked at a "long" flexshaft right angle drill, but most of those won't
take a 1/4" drill bit.
Thanks
Duane Bentley
Cincinnati
N515DB (reserved)
Finishing Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rpflanze(at)iquest.net |
| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain Avionics |
Greg is a Dot.Com millionaire so it would have to be a hell of an offer. I spoke
with him for over an hour since checking these guys out was one of my missions
this year at OSH. He is a avid aviation enthusiast and (he says) he's not in
it for the money per say. Anything can happen but it was clear from my talks
with him, he doesn't really need the money. He's more of a gadget geek than
anything.
The biggest drawback from my perspective was the moving map side of things.
There is not much mapping functionality that you would find in a normal moving
map GPS. For VFR, your choices are sectional, WAC, or low altitude and you
can't change the perspective or reduce the visual clutter.
I do think that the functionality will quickly evolve over time and the GPS
map stuff will get enhanced. It appears that he's been more focused on the
EFIS side of the box. In any event, it is an impressive piece of gear for the
money. If I ever sell my -6 and get my Rocket kit, this box will likely sit
front and center in my panel.
Randy Pflanzer N417G
RV-6 (175 hours)
>
>The fear I have is that one of the guys selling for big bucks >gives Greg
>a deal he can't refuse, and buy him out.
>Cecil
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, Blue Mountain was there, and their EFIS-One is a >>stunning piece
>> of
>> equipment!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 QB V.S. Installation |
>
> The RV6 QB kit comes with the tail wheel support already bolted in place,
> both fore and aft, in the end of the fuselage. The aft flange has three
> 1/4" bolts through the last bulkhead are these bolts are also intended to
> bolt through the lower end of the Vertical Stabilizer, per Dwg. 34. If I
> take out those three bolts, put the V.S. in place, securely clamped where
I
> want it, how do you physically get in that cavity to back drill the bolt
> holes through the last bulkhead and the V.S.?
Ah, I'd forgotten all about that. I used some kind of transfer template
(marked the holes on paper or cardboard aft of the bulkhead) and drilled
small holes first, to be sure I wasn't too far off. This avoids back
drilling from inside the fuselage. It worked pretty well.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Bell" <dbell(at)manisteenational.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Re - microair |
Jim,
I have been waiting for the new micro air units since I spoke with them last
year at Oshkosh and even have my panel all cut and ready to install the 21/4
inch round tranceiver and transponder, but when I heard it would be another
2 months, which is what i heard every time I checked....I had to go
elsewhere....I ended up with an Icom A-200 and a Garmen transponder.....
Doug Bell
8qb
Back from Osh a lot poorer....
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Jewell <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 1:57 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re - microair
>
> I was told that Microair would be at Oshkosh with their new flat pack
radio
> stackable transmitter and transponder.
>
> Can anyone provide us with information and or opinions regarding Microair
at
> or not at Oshkosh?
>
> If their new flat stack systems are on the market is anyone using this
> equipment as yet?
>
> Jim - in Kelowna
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | A good way to start the week |
The Harbinger
By Bill Walker
It wasn't noon yet, but the temperature was already
approaching ninety-five degrees on the morning I started my
flight training at Fort Wolters. It was warm for May, even
for Texas, and since the base was intended to be a training
ground for Vietnam, the heat just made the experience all
the more authentic. We knew that the lucky few who made it
through the grueling nine-month warrant officer flight-
training course would soon be off to a destination even
hotter than Texas.
As nearly two hundred of us stood at attention, we
were flushed with excitement. On this day, we would finally
begin the "hands on" portion of flight school. We had been
through nine tough weeks of basic training in Louisiana and
four weeks of continuous harassment from our tactical
officers while we began the ground school portion of our
classes. The purpose of the harassment, we knew, was to
shake out anyone from the program who couldn't handle the
pressure of intimidation and confusion. The ability to
remain focused during combat is critical to survival.
That morning, however, no amount of harassment could
have taken away from the excitement of climbing into the
cockpit of the TH-55 training helicopter to actually begin
learning to fly. Although it was common knowledge that only
a portion of those who began flight school would actually
end up with wings, each of us was convinced that we would
soon fly "above the best." Lunch, and our tactical
officers, were all that stood between us and our first
flight. We knew from experience that the tac officers could
be brutal, so we wondered, uneasily, what they would throw
at us during this portion of our training.
As we stood rigidly facing the tac officer, waiting
for instructions, a tiny robin hopped out in front of our
formation. It seemed confused and a little frightened.
Suddenly, its mother flew a low swoop across the lawn, as
if encouraging her youngster to take to the air. Despite
our efforts to remain focused on the men in command in
front of us, everyone's eyes followed the birds. Even our
officers turned to watch, mesmerized by the scene.
Over and over, the tiny bird ran as fast as its little
legs could move, taking off after its mom. But despite its
best efforts, gravity kept it tethered to the earth. Again
and again, the little ball of feathers raced across the
grass, flapping its wings, only to hop up on a stone at the
end of its long run.
Completely ignoring the crowd of staring bystanders,
the mother robin swooped down after her baby's attempts to
fly, cajoling and chiding it. "Like this," she seemed to be
saying. "Try again." All two hundred of us watched
breathlessly, silently praying for the little bird to
succeed. Each time it flapped and hopped its way across the
lawn in front of us, we'd groan at its failure.
Finally, after we had stood at attention for what
seemed like hours just watching, those tiny wings took hold
of the air, and the baby bird became airborne for a few
feet. You could almost see the little bird swell with
pride. Then, on one last run across the front of our
formation, the gray piece of fluff rose into the air. Two
hundred would-be warrant officers burst into wild cheers.
We watched, ecstatic, as the little bird followed its
mother to the horizon. Our tac officers turned back to us,
smiling. What could they add? It had been the ultimate
flight lesson.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Dombroski <f_dombroski(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Forward Baggage Door - Composite |
I am considering a glass or carbon fibre forward
baggage door, my flying partner (Mike Campbell ala
Primal Fear and Dream Catcher) is quite accomplished
in glass work. If there is sufficient interest, we
will make a mold to produce a number of these units.
We have access to several -8's to pull the molds.
The carbon is cool, but the glass allows for antenna
instalation (GPS).
Please let me know if you are interested...
Regards
Frank Dombroski
-8 Wings, awaiting QB Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Blue Mountain Avionics |
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
Thread-Index: AcEYp3nsDcMgz3kxQ0Kr9rKTJiNCGwAguPeQ
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
Probably the biggest thing I noticed in all the sytems now coming onto
the market is the use of solid-state gyros. (well, actually they're
accelerometers.) Say goodbye to those crappy gyros and vacuum pumps
that have cost so many people money and to quite a few of the
unfortunate their lives. My guess is that within 2-3 years you'll see
drop-in electronic replacements for your gyro's.
Thanks!
Bob Japundza
RealMed Corporation
www.realmed.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cecilth(at)juno.com [mailto:cecilth(at)juno.com]
> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 9:52 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
>
>
>
> The fear I have is that one of the guys selling for big bucks
> gives Greg
> a deal he can't refuse, and buy him out.
> Cecil
>
>
> writes:
> >
> > Yes, Blue Mountain was there, and their EFIS-One is a
> stunning piece
> > of
> > equipment!
> >
> > Greg Richter was demonstrating the latest version of the unit that
> > has a
> > wonder box that replaces the vacuum gyros on the system detailed on
> > the
> > website. The entire system is now self contained and solid state.
> >
> > I was totally blown away by the capabilities of the EFIS
> considering
> > the
> > price tag. Richter appears to be a very smart feller who no doubt
> > will
> > be adding enhancements to the unit as they are used in the field.
> > Matter
> > of fact, he said he will soon be shipping the units with optional
> > auto-pilot servos!
> >
> > I suspect this little company, if it can stay on track, is going to
> > turn
> > the EFIS community on its ear; the product is that impressive, and
> > the
> > price point is tens of thousands less than the TSO'ed units.
> >
> > Sam Buchanan (RV-6.......with a new panel in the future???)
> > http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain Avionics |
They are here today. Steve at ICARUS has a solid state AI/DG using the
Compaq iPAQ for a display. They sold out of all they had at Oshkosh. I
will be using it in my RV-8A.
Craig Moen (RV-8 builder in Chevy Chase MD) is the person to talk to for
details.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (systems install)
Vienna, VA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 3:09 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
>
> Probably the biggest thing I noticed in all the sytems now coming onto
> the market is the use of solid-state gyros. (well, actually they're
> accelerometers.) Say goodbye to those crappy gyros and vacuum pumps
> that have cost so many people money and to quite a few of the
> unfortunate their lives. My guess is that within 2-3 years you'll see
> drop-in electronic replacements for your gyro's.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bob Japundza
> RealMed Corporation
> www.realmed.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cecilth(at)juno.com [mailto:cecilth(at)juno.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 9:52 PM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
> >
> >
> >
> > The fear I have is that one of the guys selling for big bucks
> > gives Greg
> > a deal he can't refuse, and buy him out.
> > Cecil
> >
> >
> > writes:
> > >
> > > Yes, Blue Mountain was there, and their EFIS-One is a
> > stunning piece
> > > of
> > > equipment!
> > >
> > > Greg Richter was demonstrating the latest version of the unit that
> > > has a
> > > wonder box that replaces the vacuum gyros on the system detailed on
> > > the
> > > website. The entire system is now self contained and solid state.
> > >
> > > I was totally blown away by the capabilities of the EFIS
> > considering
> > > the
> > > price tag. Richter appears to be a very smart feller who no doubt
> > > will
> > > be adding enhancements to the unit as they are used in the field.
> > > Matter
> > > of fact, he said he will soon be shipping the units with optional
> > > auto-pilot servos!
> > >
> > > I suspect this little company, if it can stay on track, is going to
> > > turn
> > > the EFIS community on its ear; the product is that impressive, and
> > > the
> > > price point is tens of thousands less than the TSO'ed units.
> > >
> > > Sam Buchanan (RV-6.......with a new panel in the future???)
> > > http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Need a Nose-Wheel Fairing? |
I replaced Van's standard wheel pants with the pressure recovery ones from
Van and Team Rocket....I gave the RV6A main wheel pants to a hangar neighbor
who is building a Tailwind, but I have the nose wheel fairing left that is
just in the way in the hangar. If you want it let me know, its up for grabs,
free yet! If no takers, it goes into the trash.
John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ok, NOW I'm hooked... |
> for the infamous $30,000 free ride,
TRY AGAIN 30 X'S 3 AT LEAST !!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> |
| Subject: | Need a Nose-Wheel Fairing? |
I didn't know that there was a "new" pressure recovery nose wheel fairing.
I thought that only the main wheel fairings had been "upgraded", but not the
nose wheel....??? Am I wrong? Is there something new? I gotta have new! (my
standard white, gellcoat nose wheel fairing is a piece of #*)@
@$&0.!!!!
Jim
Tampa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 3:39 PM
Subject: RV-List: Need a Nose-Wheel Fairing?
I replaced Van's standard wheel pants with the pressure recovery ones from
Van and Team Rocket....I gave the RV6A main wheel pants to a hangar neighbor
who is building a Tailwind, but I have the nose wheel fairing left that is
just in the way in the hangar. If you want it let me know, its up for grabs,
free yet! If no takers, it goes into the trash.
John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain Avionics |
Carl,
Do they have a web site?
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
>
> They are here today. Steve at ICARUS has a solid state AI/DG using the
> Compaq iPAQ for a display. They sold out of all they had at Oshkosh. I
> will be using it in my RV-8A.
>
> Craig Moen (RV-8 builder in Chevy Chase MD) is the person to talk to for
> details.
>
> Carl Froehlich
> RV-8A (systems install)
> Vienna, VA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 3:09 PM
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
>
>
> >
> > Probably the biggest thing I noticed in all the sytems now coming onto
> > the market is the use of solid-state gyros. (well, actually they're
> > accelerometers.) Say goodbye to those crappy gyros and vacuum pumps
> > that have cost so many people money and to quite a few of the
> > unfortunate their lives. My guess is that within 2-3 years you'll see
> > drop-in electronic replacements for your gyro's.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Bob Japundza
> > RealMed Corporation
> > www.realmed.com
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: cecilth(at)juno.com [mailto:cecilth(at)juno.com]
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 9:52 PM
> > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The fear I have is that one of the guys selling for big bucks
> > > gives Greg
> > > a deal he can't refuse, and buy him out.
> > > Cecil
> > >
> > >
> > > writes:
> > > >
> > > > Yes, Blue Mountain was there, and their EFIS-One is a
> > > stunning piece
> > > > of
> > > > equipment!
> > > >
> > > > Greg Richter was demonstrating the latest version of the unit that
> > > > has a
> > > > wonder box that replaces the vacuum gyros on the system detailed on
> > > > the
> > > > website. The entire system is now self contained and solid state.
> > > >
> > > > I was totally blown away by the capabilities of the EFIS
> > > considering
> > > > the
> > > > price tag. Richter appears to be a very smart feller who no doubt
> > > > will
> > > > be adding enhancements to the unit as they are used in the field.
> > > > Matter
> > > > of fact, he said he will soon be shipping the units with optional
> > > > auto-pilot servos!
> > > >
> > > > I suspect this little company, if it can stay on track, is going to
> > > > turn
> > > > the EFIS community on its ear; the product is that impressive, and
> > > > the
> > > > price point is tens of thousands less than the TSO'ed units.
> > > >
> > > > Sam Buchanan (RV-6.......with a new panel in the future???)
> > > > http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need a Nose-Wheel Fairing? |
Hi John,
I'll take the nose fairing off your hands. Will of course cover
shipping costs.
My Address is:
Ed Anderson
305 Reefton Road
Matthews, NC 28104-0569
Thanks
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 3:38 PM
Subject: RV-List: Need a Nose-Wheel Fairing?
>
> I replaced Van's standard wheel pants with the pressure recovery ones from
> Van and Team Rocket....I gave the RV6A main wheel pants to a hangar
neighbor
> who is building a Tailwind, but I have the nose wheel fairing left that is
> just in the way in the hangar. If you want it let me know, its up for
grabs,
> free yet! If no takers, it goes into the trash.
> John at Salida, CO
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Blue Mountain Avionics |
Yes they do:
http://bluemountainavionics.com/
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Gummo
Sent: July 30, 2001 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
Carl,
Do they have a web site?
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
>
> They are here today. Steve at ICARUS has a solid state AI/DG using the
> Compaq iPAQ for a display. They sold out of all they had at Oshkosh. I
> will be using it in my RV-8A.
>
> Craig Moen (RV-8 builder in Chevy Chase MD) is the person to talk to for
> details.
>
> Carl Froehlich
> RV-8A (systems install)
> Vienna, VA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 3:09 PM
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
>
>
> >
> > Probably the biggest thing I noticed in all the sytems now coming onto
> > the market is the use of solid-state gyros. (well, actually they're
> > accelerometers.) Say goodbye to those crappy gyros and vacuum pumps
> > that have cost so many people money and to quite a few of the
> > unfortunate their lives. My guess is that within 2-3 years you'll see
> > drop-in electronic replacements for your gyro's.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Bob Japundza
> > RealMed Corporation
> > www.realmed.com
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: cecilth(at)juno.com [mailto:cecilth(at)juno.com]
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 9:52 PM
> > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The fear I have is that one of the guys selling for big bucks
> > > gives Greg
> > > a deal he can't refuse, and buy him out.
> > > Cecil
> > >
> > >
> > > writes:
> > > >
> > > > Yes, Blue Mountain was there, and their EFIS-One is a
> > > stunning piece
> > > > of
> > > > equipment!
> > > >
> > > > Greg Richter was demonstrating the latest version of the unit that
> > > > has a
> > > > wonder box that replaces the vacuum gyros on the system detailed on
> > > > the
> > > > website. The entire system is now self contained and solid state.
> > > >
> > > > I was totally blown away by the capabilities of the EFIS
> > > considering
> > > > the
> > > > price tag. Richter appears to be a very smart feller who no doubt
> > > > will
> > > > be adding enhancements to the unit as they are used in the field.
> > > > Matter
> > > > of fact, he said he will soon be shipping the units with optional
> > > > auto-pilot servos!
> > > >
> > > > I suspect this little company, if it can stay on track, is going to
> > > > turn
> > > > the EFIS community on its ear; the product is that impressive, and
> > > > the
> > > > price point is tens of thousands less than the TSO'ed units.
> > > >
> > > > Sam Buchanan (RV-6.......with a new panel in the future???)
> > > > http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need an air compressor? |
NEVER BUY ANYTHING WORTH OVER 200 DOLLARS ON E-BAY. THATS ALL YOUR INSURED
FOR !!!
ASK ME HOW I KNOW
SCOTT
TAMPA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | I hate Mark Frederick! :-) Long |
I was at Osh Kosh a sittin' under the wing of the Redtail Mustang, (the
other one, not Kermits) mindin' my own business, when Mark Fredrick comes a
saunderin' outta the crowd as only a Texan can do..... he points at me and
curls his finger back directin' me to come with him. I was parked at the
AeroShell Square, aka the West Ramp for us old timers, and we walked out
infront of the "pronouncers" stand there was this Rocket sittin' there. He
tells me to get up front and I told him I would be happy in back. He said,
"Why, can't ya start it?" I did as I was told and climbed up front......
That SOB is gonna have me dreamin' about ditchin' the panther and buyin' a
Damn Rocket forever!!! I hate you Mark Fredrick! ;-)
On a serious note, WHAT A MACHINE!!!!!
I have flown the Extra 300 and for all but the hardcores acro types, I would
have but one question, Why buy an Extra?
The airplane goes like a scalded cat with turpentine under it's tail! It
rolls quite a bit faster than the -4 and It has better aileron centering
than -4. It does retain the rumble in the ailerons that the -4 has at full
deflection, and there is just a touch of aerodynamic "slop" at center that I
have never seen in an RV, it is not objectionable, and I mention it only
because it is about the only thing besides AWESOME performance that is
different than the RV's that I have flown.
The ceiling was too low to do a loop or a cuban. It would take some room,
lotsa room to go over the top! I did find a hole and pulled to the
vertical, with 25/25 It felt like it was accelerating uphill, it wasn't, but
it sure doesn't slow down as fast as the -4. I was pressing the ceiling and
tried to kick it over early without pulling the power and it unhooked, very
clean. I centered the controls and it hitched up instantly, got the nose
pointed at the ground and we were going downhill in a big hurry! I would
love to have had some more room to work with and wring it out. I did 4 and
8 point rolls and it stops on the points quicker than the panther.
The airplane retains all the good manners of the -4 but you need to be ready
to push on the right pedal when you lean on the noise lever. Mark says the
F1's have a bigger rudder, I did not track as true as I would have liked on
the take off. (my fault, not the airplane) It was instantly going 100 and I
hauled it back and it just climbed up like a homesick angel, and accelerated
while it was doing it!!! I was swimming in all the room up front and the
huge instrument panel would hold enough instruments to blow most IFR
budgets.
The airplane lands like a dream. The visibility is not as good as the -4,
but much better than the back seat of the Extra. The gear legs have a
different feel than the ones from Van's but it rolls straight on the ground
and anyone current in a RV would have no trouble landing it.
Flying the Rocket was a big highlight in an action packed week for me.
Thank you Mark Fredrick... I will still hate you when I am laying awake
nights trying to figure out what I have to sell to buy a Rocket.
Now I really wanna Rocket!
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need an air compressor? |
In a message dated 7/30/2001 5:26:43 PM Central Daylight Time,
ABAYMAN(at)aol.com writes:
> NEVER BUY ANYTHING WORTH OVER 200 DOLLARS ON E-BAY. THATS ALL YOUR INSURED
> FOR !!!
> ASK ME HOW I KNOW
> SCOTT
> TAMPA
>
ebay insurance is next to worthless.
Ask me how i know
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | What are our airplanes worth? |
There I was, standing on the wing of my plane at Oshkosh... Of course, this
is guaranteed to generate a crowd, and a Q&A session quickly began.
One person, asked "What's an RV-6 like this go for... $80- $90 thousand?".
Now, I'm proud of my airplane, and in my unbiased opinion ;-), it is a very
nice example. That said, told the questioner that I figure the airplane is
probably worth $55 - $60 thousand, although a couple of gyros and a metal
prop would more than pay for themselves in resale. A few minutes later, the
same guy asked if I'd take $55k for the airplane Right Then...
I told him no, that I'm wasn't looking to sell it, but if he had $75k (I.E.
if he really, really wanted MY airplane), we might talk.
This discussion got my interest up... What are our airplanes worth? Anyone
know of recent sales of nice airplanes?
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Arthur Glaser <airplane(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need an air compressor? |
Does anyone have experience with the compressors sold through Sams?
They have a couple of large vertical compressors.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Superior Engines |
I know this has been discussed before but thought I bring it back to life in
case there has been worthwhile developments.
I stopped and saw Bart from Aero Sport while I was at OSH. He had a new
Millennium engine sitting on a stand. He told me that he can deliver one of
these for about $20,000. He told me it would be around 197hp with the Bendix
fuel injection system and high compression pistons but I'm not sure if this
is included for the ~20k. Does anyone know? This engine would also be
comparable to the IO-360 (except no counter balanced crankshaft) but almost
40lb lighter with a better TBO.
I am a bit worried about getting an engine that is not a Lycoming but
understand that an engine rebuilt from i.e. Bart will have mostly Superior
parts in it anyways. So... it looks like we're ending up with almost the
same engine at the end of the day but with different valve covers (a wee bit
exaggerated :) ).
Any thoughts?
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: July 30, 2001 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
They are here today. Steve at ICARUS has a solid state AI/DG using the
Compaq iPAQ for a display. They sold out of all they had at Oshkosh. I
will be using it in my RV-8A.
Craig Moen (RV-8 builder in Chevy Chase MD) is the person to talk to for
details.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (systems install)
Vienna, VA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 3:09 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
>
> Probably the biggest thing I noticed in all the sytems now coming onto
> the market is the use of solid-state gyros. (well, actually they're
> accelerometers.) Say goodbye to those crappy gyros and vacuum pumps
> that have cost so many people money and to quite a few of the
> unfortunate their lives. My guess is that within 2-3 years you'll see
> drop-in electronic replacements for your gyro's.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bob Japundza
> RealMed Corporation
> www.realmed.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cecilth(at)juno.com [mailto:cecilth(at)juno.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 9:52 PM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
> >
> >
> >
> > The fear I have is that one of the guys selling for big bucks
> > gives Greg
> > a deal he can't refuse, and buy him out.
> > Cecil
> >
> >
> > writes:
> > >
> > > Yes, Blue Mountain was there, and their EFIS-One is a
> > stunning piece
> > > of
> > > equipment!
> > >
> > > Greg Richter was demonstrating the latest version of the unit that
> > > has a
> > > wonder box that replaces the vacuum gyros on the system detailed on
> > > the
> > > website. The entire system is now self contained and solid state.
> > >
> > > I was totally blown away by the capabilities of the EFIS
> > considering
> > > the
> > > price tag. Richter appears to be a very smart feller who no doubt
> > > will
> > > be adding enhancements to the unit as they are used in the field.
> > > Matter
> > > of fact, he said he will soon be shipping the units with optional
> > > auto-pilot servos!
> > >
> > > I suspect this little company, if it can stay on track, is going to
> > > turn
> > > the EFIS community on its ear; the product is that impressive, and
> > > the
> > > price point is tens of thousands less than the TSO'ed units.
> > >
> > > Sam Buchanan (RV-6.......with a new panel in the future???)
> > > http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
Always put it on a credit card (paypal if the seller doesn't take credit
cards) and you can have your card company take the money straight out of
their account if they screw you. I've bought thousands of dollars worth of
stuff (snowboard, bindings, digital camera, tig welder, etc) with only one
problem because I didn't follow the above rules (it was less than $100 so I
didn't worry about it) If the seller won't take paypal, billpoint, or a
credit card directly.....then you should beware. Otherwise...don't sweat
it. I even sold my motorcycle on ebay ($3500) to a guy in New York city.
He sent the funds over paypal (off his credit card) and I put the bike on a
truck here in Orlando....he got it a couple weeks later.
Isn't the world a smaller place with the internet?
Bill
-4 wings
----- Original Message -----
From: <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Need an air compressor?
>
> NEVER BUY ANYTHING WORTH OVER 200 DOLLARS ON E-BAY. THATS ALL YOUR INSURED
> FOR !!!
> ASK ME HOW I KNOW
> SCOTT
> TAMPA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net> |
"Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com"
I hear Becker also make a 2 1/4" comm and xpndr... Anyone have any info on
these units?
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Doug Bell
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 6:39 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re - microair
Jim,
I have been waiting for the new micro air units since I spoke with them last
year at Oshkosh and even have my panel all cut and ready to install the 21/4
inch round tranceiver and transponder, but when I heard it would be another
2 months, which is what i heard every time I checked....I had to go
elsewhere....I ended up with an Icom A-200 and a Garmen transponder.....
Doug Bell
8qb
Back from Osh a lot poorer....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Bell" <dbell(at)manisteenational.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What are our airplanes worth? |
Kyle,
Try contacting Terri Jantzi from Canada....he told us at Osh that he just
sold his 6 in the last couple weeks the same way...had an offer he couldn't
refuse. Terri can be reached through the Ontario Wing site linked to Vans'
or I believe his new website in www.iwantarocket.com
He is now a rocket builder
Doug Bell
8qb
----- Original Message -----
From: <KBoatri144(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 7:26 PM
Subject: RV-List: What are our airplanes worth?
>
>
> There I was, standing on the wing of my plane at Oshkosh... Of course,
this
> is guaranteed to generate a crowd, and a Q&A session quickly began.
>
> One person, asked "What's an RV-6 like this go for... $80- $90
thousand?".
> Now, I'm proud of my airplane, and in my unbiased opinion ;-), it is a
very
> nice example. That said, told the questioner that I figure the airplane
is
> probably worth $55 - $60 thousand, although a couple of gyros and a metal
> prop would more than pay for themselves in resale. A few minutes later,
the
> same guy asked if I'd take $55k for the airplane Right Then...
>
> I told him no, that I'm wasn't looking to sell it, but if he had $75k
(I.E.
> if he really, really wanted MY airplane), we might talk.
>
> This discussion got my interest up... What are our airplanes worth?
Anyone
> know of recent sales of nice airplanes?
>
> Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
> RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
> .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | RV-9A Forward Fuse |
Kevin Shannon and/or others:
I'm about to rivet the side skins on my fuse and have the following
questions.
A) At what point did you rivet the firewall to the side skins?
B) At what point did you rivet the forward bottom skin onto the side and
bottom skins?
C) I think the wing bolts will have to be removed in order to mount the main
gear brackets. Did you have any trouble getting the wing bolts to go
through the main gear brackets later on when the wings were attached?
I thought about asking Kevin these questions directly but I think other 9
builders will be interested in the answers. I can see an advantage in
leaving the forward bottom skin and firewall off as long as possible in
order to work in the cabin area but perhaps it's not all that necessary.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV (Reserved)
Working on fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
I have good experience as well. I have bought and sold many items including
all my old model airplanes just yesterday. I sold and bought many radios -
one that was worth over $9,000 and never had a problem. When I buy, I ask
the buyer to not cash my cheque until I get to try the goods (providing it
was not sold 'as is'). It has always worked out - without exception. I also
use PayPal when I sell items and I reserve the right to not sell items to
bidders with bad or no positive feedback. The feedback system (when used
right) allows you to almost see a user's buying habit.
I even bought a bunch of Avery tools from an RV-list member and it worked
like a charm!
Are
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Shook
Sent: July 30, 2001 7:43 PM
Subject: RV-List: ebay
Always put it on a credit card (paypal if the seller doesn't take credit
cards) and you can have your card company take the money straight out of
their account if they screw you. I've bought thousands of dollars worth of
stuff (snowboard, bindings, digital camera, tig welder, etc) with only one
problem because I didn't follow the above rules (it was less than $100 so I
didn't worry about it) If the seller won't take paypal, billpoint, or a
credit card directly.....then you should beware. Otherwise...don't sweat
it. I even sold my motorcycle on ebay ($3500) to a guy in New York city.
He sent the funds over paypal (off his credit card) and I put the bike on a
truck here in Orlando....he got it a couple weeks later.
Isn't the world a smaller place with the internet?
Bill
-4 wings
----- Original Message -----
From: <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Need an air compressor?
>
> NEVER BUY ANYTHING WORTH OVER 200 DOLLARS ON E-BAY. THATS ALL YOUR INSURED
> FOR !!!
> ASK ME HOW I KNOW
> SCOTT
> TAMPA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Haan <bhaan(at)easystreet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 295 in dash |
Bob,
Thanks for telling me. We just rebuilt our system and an extra "t" got in
the URL.
Try this one. http://easystreet.com/~bhaan/
Bob
>Hi Bob,
>The URL to your Garmin install does not come up. I would be really
>interested in seeing the pics. I have a 295 and was already thinking about
>the possibility of doing the same.
>Thanks,
>Robert Paisley
>RV-7 Emp underway
Bob
RV6A almost
http://easystreet.com/~bhaan/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terence Gannon" <tgannon(at)stoneboat.com> |
| Subject: | When To Order QB Fuselage and Finish Kit |
Listers -- as I'm nearing the point where I will be ordering the fuselage
kit, one option that is available from Van's (assuming that I'm willing to
pay the price and can wait the eight months) is to buy a QB fuselage. My
question for the list, particularly you QBuilders, is when will I need to
buy the finish kit if I have a QB fuselage? In other words, is there at
least a few months work in the QB fuselage, or should I base my ordering on
the QB fuselage and finish kit arriving at the same time, more or less. Any
thoughts that you have in this regard would be very much appreciated.
Thanks.
Terry in Calgary
RV-6 S/N 24414
Left Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terence Gannon" <tgannon(at)stoneboat.com> |
Listers -- I'm at the point where I've still got the left wing in the jig,
leading edge pointing up. It's pretty much complete, except for the aft top
skin. The tank has been sealed, and I'm wondering what experience anyone
can offer as to when to 'permanently' attach the tank. I'm assuming that
pressure testing it is best done while it's still off the wing, but assuming
that checks out, is there any reason why I should NOT put all the screws in,
prior to flipping the wing over and fitting the control surfaces?
Any help in this is very much appreciated! Best regards...
Terry in Calgary
Rv-6 S/N 24414
Left Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)apex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ok, NOW I'm hooked... |
Tim Bryan wrote:
>
> Hi Doug,
>
> How does one get into your white pages?
>
> Tim Bryan
> RV-6 Slider (N616TB Reserved) Finish kit
> tim(at)bryantechnology.com
Go to http://www.metronet.com/~dreeves/vaf.htm and summit your info :-)
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
Starting RV7A empannage :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas Mosher" <tmosher(at)gbronline.com> |
| Subject: | Tip-Up or Slider |
I defer to those who are building or flying RV's. I've decided upon an
RV-7A for my project but have not decided on whether to use a tip-up or
slider canopy. Any pros or cons for each?
Someone has told me that the slider canopy on the RV-6 provides a little
extra headroom. As I am 6' 3" in stocking feet, every little bit might
help.
Tom
N787RV (reserved - collecting tools at the moment)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A Forward Fuse |
I would like to know, also. I am almost there.
Barry ore RV9a fuselage
do not achive
Albert Gardner wrote:
>
>
> Kevin Shannon and/or others:
> I'm about to rivet the side skins on my fuse and have the following
> questions.
> A) At what point did you rivet the firewall to the side skins?
> B) At what point did you rivet the forward bottom skin onto the side and
> bottom skins?
> C) I think the wing bolts will have to be removed in order to mount the main
> gear brackets. Did you have any trouble getting the wing bolts to go
> through the main gear brackets later on when the wings were attached?
>
> I thought about asking Kevin these questions directly but I think other 9
> builders will be interested in the answers. I can see an advantage in
> leaving the forward bottom skin and firewall off as long as possible in
> order to work in the cabin area but perhaps it's not all that necessary.
> Albert Gardner
> Yuma, AZ
> RV-9A: N872RV (Reserved)
> Working on fuse
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrjb(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain Avionics |
Bob,
Am I the only one that looked at the Dynon(sp?) system. It has 3
accelerometers and 3 tuned fork gyros. Now I've told you more than I know
about that, but the display they had grabbed me more than Blue mountain
because it fits my panel and my pocket book. They were in the NE corner of
building D. There unit has AS, AI, AOA, HEADING, ALTITUDE, VSI, TI, AND SLIP
BALL all in a 3 1/8 in hole. All for $2199 including a heated pitot with the
static holes for AOA.
This unit, an ipaq with Anywhere software, and a navcom with GS is going to
be my panel if Dynon comes through, in the meantime I am going to use a
Rocky Mt encoder. I will keep my propietary AOA and an electric turn
indicator as backups. Probably will keep my 195 mounted also as a backup to
ipaq.
Bernie Kerr, 6A,
My guess is that within 2-3 years you'll see
> drop-in electronic replacements for your gyro's.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bob Japundza
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Gregory <sgregory(at)best.com> |
| Subject: | Re: When To Order QB Fuselage and Finish Kit |
It is my understanding that once you start a regular wing kit (you mention you
are working on the left wing), that you need to stay with the regular fuse kit.
My only option with the 8 quickbuild was to get both the wings and fuse together
(they are mated at the factory specifically for each other, I believe). Check
with Van's. My thoughts on when to order the finishing kit depends on how fast
you build and the availability of the kits. I would not want to wait around
forever for the finishing kit, nor would I want to store a canopy for several
months. Keep an eye on the availability of the kits through Van's website.
Maybe this will help you time your order.
--
Blue Skies....
Steve Gregory
RV-8QB
Livermore, CA
Direct 925/543-2595
FAX 925/275-3531
Terence Gannon wrote:
>
> Listers -- as I'm nearing the point where I will be ordering the fuselage
> kit, one option that is available from Van's (assuming that I'm willing to
> pay the price and can wait the eight months) is to buy a QB fuselage. My
> question for the list, particularly you QBuilders, is when will I need to
> buy the finish kit if I have a QB fuselage? In other words, is there at
> least a few months work in the QB fuselage, or should I base my ordering on
> the QB fuselage and finish kit arriving at the same time, more or less. Any
> thoughts that you have in this regard would be very much appreciated.
> Thanks.
>
> Terry in Calgary
> RV-6 S/N 24414
> Left Wing
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com> |
| Date: | Jul 30, 2001 |
| From: | Tim Bronson <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Becker radios: correction |
In my post about two minutes ago regarding Becker radios, I listed two
dimensions that could be misleading.
Both the comm and transponder fit 2.25" panel cutouts. The transpnder is
also 2.25" deep, while the comm is 7.5" deep. Sorry about the omission.
FWIW.
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harvey Sigmon" <flyhars(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | When To Order QB Fuselage and Finish Kit |
Terry: I just went through a QB and the way it was set up is you can use
your tail, but the QB comes with the wings and fuselage are made together.
Wings completed except for the outer top skins. Ailerons, flaps completed
but must be fitted to wing, also wing tips need to be installed. The
fuselage is completed except the cockpit and the three top skins. There is
a lot of work to complete before you need the finishing kit, but there is
usually a long lead time for the sliding canopy, and some Fiberglas
fairings. You also need to know what engine you will be using before
ordering the finishing kit. Hope this helps.
Harvey Sigmon RV-6AQB N602RV
> [Original Message]
> From: Terence Gannon <tgannon(at)stoneboat.com>
> To: RV-LIST
> Date: 7/30/2001 7:10:08 PM
> Subject: RV-List: When To Order QB Fuselage and Finish Kit
>
>
> Listers -- as I'm nearing the point where I will be ordering the fuselage
> kit, one option that is available from Van's (assuming that I'm willing to
> pay the price and can wait the eight months) is to buy a QB fuselage. My
> question for the list, particularly you QBuilders, is when will I need to
> buy the finish kit if I have a QB fuselage? In other words, is there at
> least a few months work in the QB fuselage, or should I base my ordering
on
> the QB fuselage and finish kit arriving at the same time, more or less.
Any
> thoughts that you have in this regard would be very much appreciated.
> Thanks.
>
> Terry in Calgary
> RV-6 S/N 24414
> Left Wing
>
>
>
>
>
--- Harvey Sigmon
--- flyhars(at)earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Blue Mountain Avionics |
Sounds cool. Where can I get more info about Dynon?
Larry Bowen
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bernie Kerr
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 9:12 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
>
>
> Bob,
>
> Am I the only one that looked at the Dynon(sp?) system. It has 3
> accelerometers and 3 tuned fork gyros. Now I've told you more than I know
> about that, but the display they had grabbed me more than Blue mountain
> because it fits my panel and my pocket book. They were in the NE corner of
> building D. There unit has AS, AI, AOA, HEADING, ALTITUDE, VSI,
> TI, AND SLIP
> BALL all in a 3 1/8 in hole. All for $2199 including a heated
> pitot with the
> static holes for AOA.
>
> This unit, an ipaq with Anywhere software, and a navcom with GS
> is going to
> be my panel if Dynon comes through, in the meantime I am going to use a
> Rocky Mt encoder. I will keep my propietary AOA and an electric turn
> indicator as backups. Probably will keep my 195 mounted also as a
> backup to
> ipaq.
>
> Bernie Kerr, 6A,
>
> My guess is that within 2-3 years you'll see
> > drop-in electronic replacements for your gyro's.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Bob Japundza
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain Avionics |
Greetings Bob et al
I certainly agree, Sigma Tek, though not making a big deal about it, was
showing an electronic attitude and directional gyro driven by the Crossbow
AHRS. The stated purpose was to get rid of the vacuum system. It is
supposed to be certified early next year and be reasonalbly priced. Within
a couple of years I think we will have several choices for digital
electronic flight displays covering a range of functions and prices. Having
flown top end EFIS/FMS systems in GV's and Falcons I can promise everyone
that you will love these systems.
Another benefit to these systems will be their much better response and
tolerance to aerobatic manuvers when compared to mechanical instrumentation.
Dick Sipp
RV4 250DS
Probably the biggest thing I noticed in all the sytems now coming onto
> the market is the use of solid-state gyros. (well, actually they're
> accelerometers.) Say goodbye to those crappy gyros and vacuum pumps
> that have cost so many people money and to quite a few of the
> unfortunate their lives. My guess is that within 2-3 years you'll see
> drop-in electronic replacements for your gyro's.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bob Japundza
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What are our airplanes worth? |
>
> This discussion got my interest up... What are our airplanes worth?
Anyone
> know of recent sales of nice airplanes?
>
Kyle:
If you are a subscriber to Trade a Plane, that have a very good aircraft
value appraisal program on their website. You input a large number of
parameters on the aircraft in questions and it comes up with an approximate
value. TAP has a very large database as you can imagine. I used it in
determining the value of my Cessna 180, Citabria, and also the RV-4. It
seemed very accurate from what I have been seeing even for something like
the RV series. Might give you a rough idea.
A quality RV-6 can command 80K plus.
Doug Weiler
MN Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Blue Mountain Avionics |
Try http://www.dynondevelopment.com/
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry Bowen
Sent: July 30, 2001 10:36 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
Sounds cool. Where can I get more info about Dynon?
Larry Bowen
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bernie Kerr
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 9:12 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
>
>
> Bob,
>
> Am I the only one that looked at the Dynon(sp?) system. It has 3
> accelerometers and 3 tuned fork gyros. Now I've told you more than I know
> about that, but the display they had grabbed me more than Blue mountain
> because it fits my panel and my pocket book. They were in the NE corner of
> building D. There unit has AS, AI, AOA, HEADING, ALTITUDE, VSI,
> TI, AND SLIP
> BALL all in a 3 1/8 in hole. All for $2199 including a heated
> pitot with the
> static holes for AOA.
>
> This unit, an ipaq with Anywhere software, and a navcom with GS
> is going to
> be my panel if Dynon comes through, in the meantime I am going to use a
> Rocky Mt encoder. I will keep my propietary AOA and an electric turn
> indicator as backups. Probably will keep my 195 mounted also as a
> backup to
> ipaq.
>
> Bernie Kerr, 6A,
>
> My guess is that within 2-3 years you'll see
> > drop-in electronic replacements for your gyro's.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Bob Japundza
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terence Gannon" <tgannon(at)stoneboat.com> |
| Subject: | When To Order QB Fuselage and Finish Kit |
Steve -- I spoke with Van's about a year ago and they said at that time that
they would supply the QB fuse, despite the fact that I had ordered and built
the conventional tail and wings. The way it works is that you send back the
centre section bulkhead that was shipped with the wing kit, they send it
over the Philippines (sp?), build the fuse up over there and ship it back.
Turn around time is about eight months, and the cost (get this) is $7220
plus $350, as compared to $3470 for the conventional kit, and what appears
to be a couple of months lead time. Clearly this is an option for those
with more money than time -- I'm not sure I qualify. ;-) I figured that if
I have to buy the finish kit at the same time as the QB fuse, that's it, I
can't afford it...I would go with the conventional kit.
BTW, I have been in touch with Van's over the last week or so, and they
confirmed that the arrangement described above is still available, and will
be for the indefinite future. It's a neat option for those who would have
bought a QB in the first place, if it had been an option when they got
started.
Cheers...
Terry in Calgary
S/N 24414
Left Wing
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Gregory
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: When To Order QB Fuselage and Finish Kit
It is my understanding that once you start a regular wing kit (you mention
you
are working on the left wing), that you need to stay with the regular fuse
kit.
My only option with the 8 quickbuild was to get both the wings and fuse
together
(they are mated at the factory specifically for each other, I believe).
Check
with Van's. My thoughts on when to order the finishing kit depends on how
fast
you build and the availability of the kits. I would not want to wait around
forever for the finishing kit, nor would I want to store a canopy for
several
months. Keep an eye on the availability of the kits through Van's website.
Maybe this will help you time your order.
--
Blue Skies....
Steve Gregory
RV-8QB
Livermore, CA
Direct 925/543-2595
FAX 925/275-3531
Terence Gannon wrote:
>
> Listers -- as I'm nearing the point where I will be ordering the fuselage
> kit, one option that is available from Van's (assuming that I'm willing to
> pay the price and can wait the eight months) is to buy a QB fuselage. My
> question for the list, particularly you QBuilders, is when will I need to
> buy the finish kit if I have a QB fuselage? In other words, is there at
> least a few months work in the QB fuselage, or should I base my ordering
on
> the QB fuselage and finish kit arriving at the same time, more or less.
Any
> thoughts that you have in this regard would be very much appreciated.
> Thanks.
>
> Terry in Calgary
> RV-6 S/N 24414
> Left Wing
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Bean <jim-bean(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 rear battery security |
listers,
The rear battery setup in my RV-8 bothers me when I think about the
thing becoming a missle in a crash. Has anyone played around with some
kind of holdback? A loop of light cable around the battery, say 1/8",
ought to do the trick if an adequate anchorage for it can be devised
that isn't too heavy. Any thoughts?
Jim Bean
RV-8 fuselage/inst panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Cantrell <kcflyrv(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | New C.S. prop... |
Hi listers,
Today I started up my new 0-360 A1A engine for the first time and what a
thrill it was! Everything was fine except I couldn't get my new Hartzel
C.S. prop to cycle. After reading the manual it said that you may have
to activate the pitch a few times to purge the air out of the system
before it cycles normally. I tried it about 4 times without any change
in RPM. Do you think I may have a problem or should I give it a few more
tries? I have a McCauley governor.
Thanks in advance for your replies.
Ken Cantrell --
6QB N34KC (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain Avionics |
I saw it too. I compared it to the $7,700 sensor box (no display) from Crossbow
(also in building D). Even though the Dynon unit's cheap automotive rate gyros
max out at 90 degrees/second versus the Crossbow's 200 degrees/second, and has
lower accuracy and more drift, I found it brilliant that the Dynon unit also
uses static, dynamic and alfa (altitude, airspeed and AOA) pressures. So even if
you fool the accelerometers and rate gyros and flux gates into thinking you're
straight and level when you in fact are in a 1G spiral, the static pressure will
tell the unit that you're descending, or airspeed increase (dynamic pressure
increase) that you're in an accelerated dive.
With proper programming (and input from GPS) I don't see how the unit can ever
be fooled, no matter what violent maneuvers it's put through. And that has been
a real concern of mine: you inadvertently fly into a thunderstorm and get tossed
around - that's when you need it most!
I talked with the guy there and he seemed open to the idea of making a version
which is only a black box with output to be fed to a pocket PC line the sun
readable Iraq display.
They have a ways to go on programming and testing, but this is the most cost
effective I've seen as yet and all solid state - no expensive mechanical gyros
to damage!
http://www.dynondevelopment.com
Note that they intend to make the small AAA bar much larger.
Finn
Bern Err wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> Am I the only one that looked at the Dynon(sp?) system. It has 3
> accelerometers and 3 tuned fork gyros. Now I've told you more than I know
> about that, but the display they had grabbed me more than Blue mountain
> because it fits my panel and my pocket book. They were in the NE corner of
> building D. There unit has AS, AI, AOA, HEADING, ALTITUDE, VSI, TI, AND SLIP
> BALL all in a 3 1/8 in hole. All for $2199 including a heated pitot with the
> static holes for AOA.
>
> This unit, an ipaq with Anywhere software, and a navcom with GS is going to
> be my panel if Dynon comes through, in the meantime I am going to use a
> Rocky Mt encoder. I will keep my propietary AOA and an electric turn
> indicator as backups. Probably will keep my 195 mounted also as a backup to
> ipaq.
>
> Bernie Kerr, 6A,
>
> My guess is that within 2-3 years you'll see
> > drop-in electronic replacements for your gyro's.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Bob Japundza
>
----------------------------------------------------
NetZero Platinum
Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Superior Engines |
[Matthew puts on flame-proof suit]
I'd be cautious about putting high-compression pistons in. If it was so easy
to get higher performance from the same engine for the same weight and cost,
Lycoming and Continental would do it themselves. My understanding is that
Lycoming tried high(er) compression in a few engines with poor results.
Very intolerant of operator error since the detonation margin is smaller.
There has also been talk that the higher compression pistons make you run a
richer mixture for cooling so that you wind up with a worse economy.
I'd be pretty skeptical of the claim that you could put 10:1 pistons in an
engine designed for 8.5:1 and get the same TBO. You could try it, but I
wouldn't. If I put 10:1 pistons in (and I've considered it) I'd cut the TBO
to 1000 hours. 10% extra stress is a lot to put into a crank when its
applied over millions of cycles, and life is shitty when your crank breaks.
If you wanted to put 10:1 pistons into an angle-valve engine you'd be up
around 220 hp... its still a more powerful (but not necessarily better)
engine than the parallel valve.
Our RVs are great airplanes, but we're doing a poor job of selecting and/or
installing the engines. Check the statistics- I bet our rate of engine
failure is at least 10 times higher than the certified birds - and maybe as
high as 100 times worse. If rarely happens to Cessnas but seems to be the
cause of half the RV accidents. Be careful.
Matthew
8A canopy, IO-360-A1B6 w/ Hartzell CS... but if I could go back 6 months
I'd put an O-360/Sensenich in and keep it simple.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Are Barstad
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 4:32 PM
Subject: RV-List: Superior Engines
I know this has been discussed before but thought I bring it back to life in
case there has been worthwhile developments.
I stopped and saw Bart from Aero Sport while I was at OSH. He had a new
Millennium engine sitting on a stand. He told me that he can deliver one of
these for about $20,000. He told me it would be around 197hp with the Bendix
fuel injection system and high compression pistons but I'm not sure if this
is included for the ~20k. Does anyone know? This engine would also be
comparable to the IO-360 (except no counter balanced crankshaft) but almost
40lb lighter with a better TBO.
I am a bit worried about getting an engine that is not a Lycoming but
understand that an engine rebuilt from i.e. Bart will have mostly Superior
parts in it anyways. So... it looks like we're ending up with almost the
same engine at the end of the day but with different valve covers (a wee bit
exaggerated :) ).
Any thoughts?
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: July 30, 2001 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
They are here today. Steve at ICARUS has a solid state AI/DG using the
Compaq iPAQ for a display. They sold out of all they had at Oshkosh. I
will be using it in my RV-8A.
Craig Moen (RV-8 builder in Chevy Chase MD) is the person to talk to for
details.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (systems install)
Vienna, VA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 3:09 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
>
> Probably the biggest thing I noticed in all the sytems now coming onto
> the market is the use of solid-state gyros. (well, actually they're
> accelerometers.) Say goodbye to those crappy gyros and vacuum pumps
> that have cost so many people money and to quite a few of the
> unfortunate their lives. My guess is that within 2-3 years you'll see
> drop-in electronic replacements for your gyro's.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bob Japundza
> RealMed Corporation
> www.realmed.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cecilth(at)juno.com [mailto:cecilth(at)juno.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 9:52 PM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
> >
> >
> >
> > The fear I have is that one of the guys selling for big bucks
> > gives Greg
> > a deal he can't refuse, and buy him out.
> > Cecil
> >
> >
> > writes:
> > >
> > > Yes, Blue Mountain was there, and their EFIS-One is a
> > stunning piece
> > > of
> > > equipment!
> > >
> > > Greg Richter was demonstrating the latest version of the unit that
> > > has a
> > > wonder box that replaces the vacuum gyros on the system detailed on
> > > the
> > > website. The entire system is now self contained and solid state.
> > >
> > > I was totally blown away by the capabilities of the EFIS
> > considering
> > > the
> > > price tag. Richter appears to be a very smart feller who no doubt
> > > will
> > > be adding enhancements to the unit as they are used in the field.
> > > Matter
> > > of fact, he said he will soon be shipping the units with optional
> > > auto-pilot servos!
> > >
> > > I suspect this little company, if it can stay on track, is going to
> > > turn
> > > the EFIS community on its ear; the product is that impressive, and
> > > the
> > > price point is tens of thousands less than the TSO'ed units.
> > >
> > > Sam Buchanan (RV-6.......with a new panel in the future???)
> > > http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Haan <bhaan(at)easystreet.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin 295 flush mount how to pictures on web |
Bob,
Thanks for telling me. We just rebuilt our system and an extra "t" got in
the URL.
Try this one. http://easystreet.com/~bhaan/
Bob
>Hi Bob,
>The URL to your Garmin install does not come up. I would be really
>interested in seeing the pics. I have a 295 and was already thinking about
>the possibility of doing the same.
>Thanks,
>Robert Paisley
>RV-7 Emp underway
Bob
RV6A almost
http://easystreet.com/~bhaan/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip-Up or Slider |
Thomas,
Martin Sutter has a great article on this on the Van's Air Force-World Wide
Wing. The article is located at:
http://www.metronet.com/~dreeves/articles/tipupvsslider.htm
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
RV6 Tip-up
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Mosher <tmosher(at)gbronline.com>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 8:11 PM
Subject: RV-List: Tip-Up or Slider
>
> I defer to those who are building or flying RV's. I've decided upon an
> RV-7A for my project but have not decided on whether to use a tip-up or
> slider canopy. Any pros or cons for each?
>
> Someone has told me that the slider canopy on the RV-6 provides a little
> extra headroom. As I am 6' 3" in stocking feet, every little bit might
> help.
>
> Tom
> N787RV (reserved - collecting tools at the moment)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What are our airplanes worth? |
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
08:28:57 AM
Theres a guy lurking on this list named Ken Sebok that has just bought an
RV and will move it into our hangar (I WILL be his daisy, whatever that
means). He has shopped hard for about three months for an RV-6. He has seen
prices from 40K for a bare bones -6 with a core engine to 70K for an IFR
masterpiece. My opinion is that a good clean well built and maintained RV-6
will command around 55K. After that you can tack the cost of additional
equipment on top of that price. I saw two of Jerry Scotts RV-6's sell for
more than 80K but they were brand new, new engine & CS prop and a bang-up
panel. Replace the cost of the most costly items with what the more average
builder puts in his plane, VFR and fixed prop with a rebuilt engine, and
you are back to around 60K. Lets look at it this way, if a guy builds a
beauty and is thrifty while doing it, he can probably get close to doubling
his money %-wise, like say he can maybe make 70% of his cost to build. But
if a guy has deep pockets and puts all the toys in his bird he cannot
really expect to make the same % of profit that the thrifty builder can
make. Since both planes are competing against each other in the same market
place it would be my bet that the plane with all the toys will sell at a
price above the simple plane that is directly proportional to the cost of
the extra equipment. This will yield a significantly smaller % of proffit
although still a higher selling point. What does profit have to do with
anything? It shows that there is a point at which the selling price of your
airplane is simply you trying to recover the money you put into it. This is
of course due to the market offering other choices. One thing is for sure,
a reasonably priced RV sells pretty fast. There are a lot more people out
there that would like to fly one, than build one
Just my opinion
Eric
KBoatri144(at)aol.com@matronics.com on 07/30/2001 07:26:06 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV-List: What are our airplanes worth?
There I was, standing on the wing of my plane at Oshkosh... Of course,
this
is guaranteed to generate a crowd, and a Q&A session quickly began.
One person, asked "What's an RV-6 like this go for... $80- $90 thousand?".
Now, I'm proud of my airplane, and in my unbiased opinion ;-), it is a very
nice example. That said, told the questioner that I figure the airplane is
probably worth $55 - $60 thousand, although a couple of gyros and a metal
prop would more than pay for themselves in resale. A few minutes later,
the
same guy asked if I'd take $55k for the airplane Right Then...
I told him no, that I'm wasn't looking to sell it, but if he had $75k (I.E.
if he really, really wanted MY airplane), we might talk.
This discussion got my interest up... What are our airplanes worth?
Anyone
know of recent sales of nice airplanes?
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New C.S. prop... |
Ken, It needs to be cycled a couple of times more. I also found that if the
RPM was below 1800 I could cycle till I was blue in the face and it would
never work. Go out and try it again at 1800 or so RPM
Gary Zilik
Ken Cantrell wrote:
>
> Hi listers,
> Today I started up my new 0-360 A1A engine for the first time and what a
> thrill it was! Everything was fine except I couldn't get my new Hartzel
> C.S. prop to cycle. After reading the manual it said that you may have
> to activate the pitch a few times to purge the air out of the system
> before it cycles normally. I tried it about 4 times without any change
> in RPM. Do you think I may have a problem or should I give it a few more
> tries? I have a McCauley governor.
> Thanks in advance for your replies.
> Ken Cantrell --
> 6QB N34KC (reserved)
>
> _
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Todd Wiechman" <toddwiechman(at)hotmail.com> |
Tail kit, wing kit, and fuselage kit.
Tail complete minus fiberglass, firewall, spars, and F-604 completed.
Everything primered inside. A&P IA built in Wichita Kansas.
First $8300.00. Please contact me online or offline at 316-721-5670 or
316-210-5670(cell) and ask for Todd.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Todd Wiechman" <toddwiechman(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Nearly Complete Rv-4 and O-320 For Sale |
RV-4 Project For Sale. Fuselage on gear and finished other than riveting on
turtledeck and putting in your intruments and interior.Interior is already
painted as is the engine mount and gear legs. Wings just need top skins
riveted on. Tail is finished. Finishing kit included. Also included is a
Lycoming O-320-E2D with only 1976 TT. Engine taken off of Cessna 172 for
upgrade to 180HP. I personally checked the compression with the engine on
the airplane, and all cylinders are in the high 70's. Magnetos are less than
60 hours old. Logs included. First $23,000 will take all of this. This will
not last long. Please call 316-721-5670(home) or 316-210-5670(cell) and ask
for Todd. Located in Wichita Kansas. I will have some pictures to send if
you give me a call.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Superior Engines |
Mathew, no flame, but you really should spend some time talking to Bart, or
any other really knowledeable engine person on this issue. First off, Bart's
parent shop is the largest engine rebuilder in Western Canada so he gets to
see a large volume of engines and what makes it to TBO and what doesn't.
Second, when Bart refers to "high compression" he's not necessarily talking
about 10-1. He frequently recommends using the "H" model pistons which puts
an O-360 at 9.2 - 1. Is this high compression? Maybe not. Lycoming did it
with the O-320 H2AD because it wouldn't make the requisite 150 horsepower
without it. Although that engine had problems, detonation or other
compression or piston related problems are not among them.
Why doesn't Lycoming or Continental bump the compression slightly? Because
they have to design for the lowest common denominator... poor fuel, ignorant
operators, abusive conditions. I'd bet that most guys building RVs are more
knowledgeable than the average spam can driver about engine operation, and
probably also has better instrumentation to keep track of what the engine is
doing. Therefore why not take advantage of some extra efficiency? True, 11-1
pistons would likely start reducing TBO, but not by much. I doubt one could
document that 9.2-1 or even 10-1 pistons decrease engine life at all.
Remember, diesels run at least 20-1 and typically last longer.
BTW, you WON'T regret the constant speed prop! :-)
Randy Lervold
RV-8, N558RL, Bart Lalonde O-360 w/Hartzell
www.rv-8.com
> [Matthew puts on flame-proof suit]
>
> I'd be cautious about putting high-compression pistons in. If it was so
easy
> to get higher performance from the same engine for the same weight and
cost,
> Lycoming and Continental would do it themselves. My understanding is that
> Lycoming tried high(er) compression in a few engines with poor results.
> Very intolerant of operator error since the detonation margin is smaller.
> There has also been talk that the higher compression pistons make you run
a
> richer mixture for cooling so that you wind up with a worse economy.
>
> I'd be pretty skeptical of the claim that you could put 10:1 pistons in an
> engine designed for 8.5:1 and get the same TBO. You could try it, but I
> wouldn't. If I put 10:1 pistons in (and I've considered it) I'd cut the
TBO
> to 1000 hours. 10% extra stress is a lot to put into a crank when its
> applied over millions of cycles, and life is shitty when your crank
breaks.
>
> If you wanted to put 10:1 pistons into an angle-valve engine you'd be up
> around 220 hp... its still a more powerful (but not necessarily better)
> engine than the parallel valve.
>
> Our RVs are great airplanes, but we're doing a poor job of selecting
and/or
> installing the engines. Check the statistics- I bet our rate of engine
> failure is at least 10 times higher than the certified birds - and maybe
as
> high as 100 times worse. If rarely happens to Cessnas but seems to be the
> cause of half the RV accidents. Be careful.
>
> Matthew
> 8A canopy, IO-360-A1B6 w/ Hartzell CS... but if I could go back 6 months
> I'd put an O-360/Sensenich in and keep it simple.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Are Barstad
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 4:32 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Superior Engines
>
>
> I know this has been discussed before but thought I bring it back to life
in
> case there has been worthwhile developments.
>
> I stopped and saw Bart from Aero Sport while I was at OSH. He had a new
> Millennium engine sitting on a stand. He told me that he can deliver one
of
> these for about $20,000. He told me it would be around 197hp with the
Bendix
> fuel injection system and high compression pistons but I'm not sure if
this
> is included for the ~20k. Does anyone know? This engine would also be
> comparable to the IO-360 (except no counter balanced crankshaft) but
almost
> 40lb lighter with a better TBO.
>
> I am a bit worried about getting an engine that is not a Lycoming but
> understand that an engine rebuilt from i.e. Bart will have mostly Superior
> parts in it anyways. So... it looks like we're ending up with almost the
> same engine at the end of the day but with different valve covers (a wee
bit
> exaggerated :) ).
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Are
> RV-8 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Are Barstad <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Superior Engines |
Thanks for the reply Matthew. I can see this is a subject that listers are refraining
from responding to since it's highly 'flameable', maybe even explosive...
Luckily, I'm born flameproof so I'm not worried about being ignited. :) I still
won't go away! (I know, ya'll have to suffer with me or go away yourselves...
:) )
First of all: I think you're right on that experimental aircraft have a statistically
higher rate of engine failures than certified aircraft. KEEP IN MIND #1:
Many of the aircraft that make up for these stats are using (pardon my Norwegian)
SKIDOO engines (well, almost...). KEEP IN MIND #2: A good portion (if not
the largest) group of small certified aircraft have derated engines so they
will last longer for i.e. flight schools. I regularly fly 172R's with IO-360's
derated to 160hp. This is on the opposite spectrum of an O-360 w/hi comp pistons
pushing 197hp. The math tells me too that TBO (and probably reliabilty) must
decrease substantially. So... I obviously agree with you and I too have reservations
towards the high compression pistons. So looking away from the pistons,
I think that a Lycoming engine with Superior parts (if rebuilt) wouldn't _necessarily_
be any better than a Superior engine with Superior parts.
If you want to (for whatever reason) ensure that you have 100% Lycoming parts in
your engine, you may want to buy it new and I have heard through several sources
(not Bart!) that Lycoming is supplying new cylinders that would be better
off overhauled before use due to degrading quality. A well known RV-lister sent
me a private message saying:
"Are, the main difference is: Lycoming is 1940s sand cast technology. Superior
is 1995 investment cast machined technology"
You can probably imagine what the rest of the message leaned towards.
I will not save on expenses where quality would be in question. If an (I)O-360
from Lycoming is more reliable than the XP-360, then I'll get it. If the XP-360
is (or will be) proven to be more reliable and better built, then I'll buy that
- even if it isn't certificated and even if there's a threat of a lower resale
value. A plane with 'the real thing' (Lycoming) won't be worth anything if
I have to land it in someones 30ft backyard with a cracked cylinder and a rod
through the cowl. Money is really no object for safety of the engine. I'm also
thinking that the Lyc O-360A1A with after-market Bendix fuel injection (B1B?)
might be just as good or better than the Lyc IO-360 for TBO , fuel economy
and weight (disclaimer: I have no comparison experience - I'm only guessing except
weight which is a given). Regardless, I will personally use a Hartzell C/S
prop.
Lycoming sounds good but I'm afraid many of you that are reading this (and swear
by Lycoming vs. Superior) have engines loaded with Superior parts.
I hear lot of RV-listers saying they either did get or will get the engine from
Aero Sport but not nearly as many admit to the fact that their engines are now
an 'almost Milennium' engine :).
As always: Whatever *you* choose whether it be Lycoming, Superior, Mazda, Subaru,
Jabiru, Chev, Ford, LOM, ATP etc., I respect it since I'm sure each individual
gets what they believe in - otherwise they wouldn't get it. Besides, I don't
yet have an engine at all so I can't comment on performance differences. I
do from time to time operate them though.
I am not saying that Superior is better than 100% Lycoming but rather asking the
list for comments from someone that might have better insight or experience
than myself. Hopefully I will be so fortunate that the Milennium engines will
have several 100 hours on them before I buy an engine. It will make my choice
easier. Unfortunately I need to make up my mind within the next year or sooner.
Are Barstad
RV-8 Wings (undecided on engine choice - argh!)
>
> From: Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net>
> Date: 2001/07/31 Tue AM 12:28:49 EDT
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Superior Engines
>
>
> [Matthew puts on flame-proof suit]
>
> I'd be cautious about putting high-compression pistons in. If it was so easy
> to get higher performance from the same engine for the same weight and cost,
> Lycoming and Continental would do it themselves. My understanding is that
> Lycoming tried high(er) compression in a few engines with poor results.
> Very intolerant of operator error since the detonation margin is smaller.
> There has also been talk that the higher compression pistons make you run a
> richer mixture for cooling so that you wind up with a worse economy.
>
> I'd be pretty skeptical of the claim that you could put 10:1 pistons in an
> engine designed for 8.5:1 and get the same TBO. You could try it, but I
> wouldn't. If I put 10:1 pistons in (and I've considered it) I'd cut the TBO
> to 1000 hours. 10% extra stress is a lot to put into a crank when its
> applied over millions of cycles, and life is shitty when your crank breaks.
>
> If you wanted to put 10:1 pistons into an angle-valve engine you'd be up
> around 220 hp... its still a more powerful (but not necessarily better)
> engine than the parallel valve.
>
> Our RVs are great airplanes, but we're doing a poor job of selecting and/or
> installing the engines. Check the statistics- I bet our rate of engine
> failure is at least 10 times higher than the certified birds - and maybe as
> high as 100 times worse. If rarely happens to Cessnas but seems to be the
> cause of half the RV accidents. Be careful.
>
> Matthew
> 8A canopy, IO-360-A1B6 w/ Hartzell CS... but if I could go back 6 months
> I'd put an O-360/Sensenich in and keep it simple.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Are Barstad
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 4:32 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Superior Engines
>
>
> I know this has been discussed before but thought I bring it back to life in
> case there has been worthwhile developments.
>
> I stopped and saw Bart from Aero Sport while I was at OSH. He had a new
> Millennium engine sitting on a stand. He told me that he can deliver one of
> these for about $20,000. He told me it would be around 197hp with the Bendix
> fuel injection system and high compression pistons but I'm not sure if this
> is included for the ~20k. Does anyone know? This engine would also be
> comparable to the IO-360 (except no counter balanced crankshaft) but almost
> 40lb lighter with a better TBO.
>
> I am a bit worried about getting an engine that is not a Lycoming but
> understand that an engine rebuilt from i.e. Bart will have mostly Superior
> parts in it anyways. So... it looks like we're ending up with almost the
> same engine at the end of the day but with different valve covers (a wee bit
> exaggerated :) ).
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Are
> RV-8 Wings
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
> Sent: July 30, 2001 4:13 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
>
>
>
> They are here today. Steve at ICARUS has a solid state AI/DG using the
> Compaq iPAQ for a display. They sold out of all they had at Oshkosh. I
> will be using it in my RV-8A.
>
> Craig Moen (RV-8 builder in Chevy Chase MD) is the person to talk to for
> details.
>
> Carl Froehlich
> RV-8A (systems install)
> Vienna, VA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 3:09 PM
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
>
>
> >
> > Probably the biggest thing I noticed in all the sytems now coming onto
> > the market is the use of solid-state gyros. (well, actually they're
> > accelerometers.) Say goodbye to those crappy gyros and vacuum pumps
> > that have cost so many people money and to quite a few of the
> > unfortunate their lives. My guess is that within 2-3 years you'll see
> > drop-in electronic replacements for your gyro's.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Bob Japundza
> > RealMed Corporation
> > www.realmed.com
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: cecilth(at)juno.com [mailto:cecilth(at)juno.com]
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 9:52 PM
> > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The fear I have is that one of the guys selling for big bucks
> > > gives Greg
> > > a deal he can't refuse, and buy him out.
> > > Cecil
> > >
> > >
> > > writes:
> > > >
> > > > Yes, Blue Mountain was there, and their EFIS-One is a
> > > stunning piece
> > > > of
> > > > equipment!
> > > >
> > > > Greg Richter was demonstrating the latest version of the unit that
> > > > has a
> > > > wonder box that replaces the vacuum gyros on the system detailed on
> > > > the
> > > > website. The entire system is now self contained and solid state.
> > > >
> > > > I was totally blown away by the capabilities of the EFIS
> > > considering
> > > > the
> > > > price tag. Richter appears to be a very smart feller who no doubt
> > > > will
> > > > be adding enhancements to the unit as they are used in the field.
> > > > Matter
> > > > of fact, he said he will soon be shipping the units with optional
> > > > auto-pilot servos!
> > > >
> > > > I suspect this little company, if it can stay on track, is going to
> > > > turn
> > > > the EFIS community on its ear; the product is that impressive, and
> > > > the
> > > > price point is tens of thousands less than the TSO'ed units.
> > > >
> > > > Sam Buchanan (RV-6.......with a new panel in the future???)
> > > > http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | "All metal" RV at Oshkosh |
I wonder if anybody knows who owns the RV-6 (or -6A) that has the inlaid
aluminum in the cowling and wingtips. Using the inlaid (bare) aluminum and
a very cunning (red) paint job, it looked like the entire airplane was made
out of aluminum. I was totally bowled over by this job, and I think it
deserves its own magazine article.
Jim Bower
St. Louis, MO
RV-6A N143DJ
Wings (Fuse on order)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming Engine Information |
Hi Mike,
My O-320 D1A is a 1993 model first run and I've been trying to find any AD's
that are applicable to it with no luck. Because of the manufacture date, I
don't think the piston pin AD is a factor, it has Lycoming cylinders, not
Superior, the sintered metal oil pump shouldn't be a factor. The rest of the
AD's I can find are for earlier engines. Am I missing anything? Do you have
any suggestions for finding out for sure? (My local FBO is less than willing
to help--doesn't like helping experimental builders)
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Superior Engines |
I believe in data myself on this topic. To that end, does anyone know of
problems that anyone's had with a new Lycoming from Van's? What percentage
of RV's have new Lycomings?
Steve Johnson
RV-8
finishing wings, ready to order fuse
----- Original Message -----
From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: Superior Engines
>
> Thanks for the reply Matthew. I can see this is a subject that listers are
refraining from responding to since it's highly 'flameable', maybe even
explosive... Luckily, I'm born flameproof so I'm not worried about being
ignited. :) I still won't go away! (I know, ya'll have to suffer with me or
go away yourselves... :) )
>
> First of all: I think you're right on that experimental aircraft have a
statistically higher rate of engine failures than certified aircraft. KEEP
IN MIND #1: Many of the aircraft that make up for these stats are using
(pardon my Norwegian) SKIDOO engines (well, almost...). KEEP IN MIND #2: A
good portion (if not the largest) group of small certified aircraft have
derated engines so they will last longer for i.e. flight schools. I
regularly fly 172R's with IO-360's derated to 160hp. This is on the opposite
spectrum of an O-360 w/hi comp pistons pushing 197hp. The math tells me too
that TBO (and probably reliabilty) must decrease substantially. So... I
obviously agree with you and I too have reservations towards the high
compression pistons. So looking away from the pistons, I think that a
Lycoming engine with Superior parts (if rebuilt) wouldn't _necessarily_ be
any better than a Superior engine with Superior parts.
>
> If you want to (for whatever reason) ensure that you have 100% Lycoming
parts in your engine, you may want to buy it new and I have heard through
several sources (not Bart!) that Lycoming is supplying new cylinders that
would be better off overhauled before use due to degrading quality. A well
known RV-lister sent me a private message saying:
>
> "Are, the main difference is: Lycoming is 1940s sand cast technology.
Superior is 1995 investment cast machined technology"
> You can probably imagine what the rest of the message leaned towards.
>
> I will not save on expenses where quality would be in question. If an
(I)O-360 from Lycoming is more reliable than the XP-360, then I'll get it.
If the XP-360 is (or will be) proven to be more reliable and better built,
then I'll buy that - even if it isn't certificated and even if there's a
threat of a lower resale value. A plane with 'the real thing' (Lycoming)
won't be worth anything if I have to land it in someones 30ft backyard with
a cracked cylinder and a rod through the cowl. Money is really no object for
safety of the engine. I'm also thinking that the Lyc O-360A1A with
after-market Bendix fuel injection (B1B?) might be just as good or better
than the Lyc IO-360 for TBO , fuel economy and weight (disclaimer: I have no
comparison experience - I'm only guessing except weight which is a given).
Regardless, I will personally use a Hartzell C/S prop.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Are Barstad <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Superior Engines (Ooops!) |
Ooops!
I never meant to insinuate Lycomings are unreliable. I am a believer in their engines
and their excellent track record over many years has proven their reliability.
I'm only trying to find out if Millennium (Superior) engines are _as good_.
I can then maybe get a better deal without compromising on safety.
Steve,
You didn't prompt me to send this message. I merely read my own message and it
looked to me that I worded it in a way it looked like I was bad-mouthing Lycoming.
Are
>
> From: "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com>
> Date: 2001/07/31 Tue PM 12:24:41 EDT
> To:
> Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: Superior Engines
>
>
> I believe in data myself on this topic. To that end, does anyone know of
> problems that anyone's had with a new Lycoming from Van's? What percentage
> of RV's have new Lycomings?
>
> Steve Johnson
>
> RV-8
> finishing wings, ready to order fuse
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:01 AM
> Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: Superior Engines
>
>
> >
> > Thanks for the reply Matthew. I can see this is a subject that listers are
> refraining from responding to since it's highly 'flameable', maybe even
> explosive... Luckily, I'm born flameproof so I'm not worried about being
> ignited. :) I still won't go away! (I know, ya'll have to suffer with me or
> go away yourselves... :) )
> >
> > First of all: I think you're right on that experimental aircraft have a
> statistically higher rate of engine failures than certified aircraft. KEEP
> IN MIND #1: Many of the aircraft that make up for these stats are using
> (pardon my Norwegian) SKIDOO engines (well, almost...). KEEP IN MIND #2: A
> good portion (if not the largest) group of small certified aircraft have
> derated engines so they will last longer for i.e. flight schools. I
> regularly fly 172R's with IO-360's derated to 160hp. This is on the opposite
> spectrum of an O-360 w/hi comp pistons pushing 197hp. The math tells me too
> that TBO (and probably reliabilty) must decrease substantially. So... I
> obviously agree with you and I too have reservations towards the high
> compression pistons. So looking away from the pistons, I think that a
> Lycoming engine with Superior parts (if rebuilt) wouldn't _necessarily_ be
> any better than a Superior engine with Superior parts.
> >
> > If you want to (for whatever reason) ensure that you have 100% Lycoming
> parts in your engine, you may want to buy it new and I have heard through
> several sources (not Bart!) that Lycoming is supplying new cylinders that
> would be better off overhauled before use due to degrading quality. A well
> known RV-lister sent me a private message saying:
> >
> > "Are, the main difference is: Lycoming is 1940s sand cast technology.
> Superior is 1995 investment cast machined technology"
> > You can probably imagine what the rest of the message leaned towards.
> >
> > I will not save on expenses where quality would be in question. If an
> (I)O-360 from Lycoming is more reliable than the XP-360, then I'll get it.
> If the XP-360 is (or will be) proven to be more reliable and better built,
> then I'll buy that - even if it isn't certificated and even if there's a
> threat of a lower resale value. A plane with 'the real thing' (Lycoming)
> won't be worth anything if I have to land it in someones 30ft backyard with
> a cracked cylinder and a rod through the cowl. Money is really no object for
> safety of the engine. I'm also thinking that the Lyc O-360A1A with
> after-market Bendix fuel injection (B1B?) might be just as good or better
> than the Lyc IO-360 for TBO , fuel economy and weight (disclaimer: I have no
> comparison experience - I'm only guessing except weight which is a given).
> Regardless, I will personally use a Hartzell C/S prop.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | First Engine Run |
Everybody,
TODAY WAS A GOOD DAY !!!!!!
Harmon Rocket II, N561FS, was started for the first time today.
The IO-540 J4A5 was finally convinced it want to turn under its own power.
With the proper amount of prime and a little luck, the started was engaged
and a different noise was heard from the front. There will be a little
fine tuning to do but IT SURE SOUNDED GREAT TO ME.
My RMI engine monitor is a different story. I have some things that need
work. For example, RPM was reading about twice what it should. (Not RMI
fault).
Tom Gummo
HR-II, N561FS (named for 561st Fighter Squadron)
Engine RUNNING
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New C.S. prop... |
Hi Ken:
I have the same combination on my RV 6, It will start to cycle at around
1300-1400 RPM. Are you getting full travel on the governor arm? Is there a
rear plug in the back of the cavity in the front of your crankshaft? If it
has been perforated or the allen plug removed ( depending on type of plug)
this would be for a fixed pitch application. This rear plug has to be in for
at CS application.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 6:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: New C.S. prop...
>
> Ken, It needs to be cycled a couple of times more. I also found that if
the
> RPM was below 1800 I could cycle till I was blue in the face and it would
> never work. Go out and try it again at 1800 or so RPM
>
> Gary Zilik
>
> Ken Cantrell wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi listers,
> > Today I started up my new 0-360 A1A engine for the first time and what a
> > thrill it was! Everything was fine except I couldn't get my new Hartzel
> > C.S. prop to cycle. After reading the manual it said that you may have
> > to activate the pitch a few times to purge the air out of the system
> > before it cycles normally. I tried it about 4 times without any change
> > in RPM. Do you think I may have a problem or should I give it a few more
> > tries? I have a McCauley governor.
> > Thanks in advance for your replies.
> > Ken Cantrell --
> > 6QB N34KC (reserved)
> >
> > _
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Engine Run |
The RPM thing is just a programming issue, mine did the same thing.
Go to page 14 in the Operations Manual. Under Programming Extra Features,
Number 6 that will fix the tach.
Garry, love my RMI stuff.
Tom Gummo wrote:
>
> Everybody,
>
> TODAY WAS A GOOD DAY !!!!!!
>
> Harmon Rocket II, N561FS, was started for the first time today.
> The IO-540 J4A5 was finally convinced it want to turn under its own power.
> With the proper amount of prime and a little luck, the started was engaged
> and a different noise was heard from the front. There will be a little
> fine tuning to do but IT SURE SOUNDED GREAT TO ME.
>
> My RMI engine monitor is a different story. I have some things that need
> work. For example, RPM was reading about twice what it should. (Not RMI
> fault).
>
> Tom Gummo
> HR-II, N561FS (named for 561st Fighter Squadron)
> Engine RUNNING
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Engine Run |
--- Tom Gummo wrote:
>
> Everybody,
>
> TODAY WAS A GOOD DAY !!!!!!
Congrats to you and Kabong! I'm sure the baby-rv-grin was forming
after that puppy fired up.
How long did you run it? What was the routine?
I'm still attaching hoses and such but will be wanting to run mine one
of these days...
You'll be in the air soon!
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | What are our airplanes worth? |
Thread-Topic: RV-List: What are our airplanes worth?
Thread-Index: AcEZVcjx4BxeweUoScaz5cprdQHPTQAoBBBQ
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
Hi Kyle,
This guy was out fishing, and he hit me up right after you
apparently...I stopped by my plane to drop off some propaganda I picked
up from the exhibitor booths when an older gentleman asked me politely
how much RV's go for and how he thought how nice my airplane was...and I
said for one equipped the way mine is I would say 80 grand...and thats
when he said "I'll give you fifty for it right now." I politely said no
thanks...and he went on his way.
I think the old saying about salaries applies to selling our airplanes:
It's only worth the highest price you can get.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 182 hours
> -----Original Message-----
> From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com [mailto:KBoatri144(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 6:26 PM
> To: Rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: What are our airplanes worth?
>
>
>
>
> There I was, standing on the wing of my plane at Oshkosh...
> Of course, this
> is guaranteed to generate a crowd, and a Q&A session quickly began.
>
> One person, asked "What's an RV-6 like this go for... $80-
> $90 thousand?".
> Now, I'm proud of my airplane, and in my unbiased opinion
> ;-), it is a very
> nice example. That said, told the questioner that I figure
> the airplane is
> probably worth $55 - $60 thousand, although a couple of gyros
> and a metal
> prop would more than pay for themselves in resale. A few
> minutes later, the
> same guy asked if I'd take $55k for the airplane Right Then...
>
> I told him no, that I'm wasn't looking to sell it, but if he
> had $75k (I.E.
> if he really, really wanted MY airplane), we might talk.
>
> This discussion got my interest up... What are our airplanes
> worth? Anyone
> know of recent sales of nice airplanes?
>
> Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
> RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Superior Engines |
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
03:46:42 PM
I have known three builders that to open their new Lycos to comply with
AD's. Two were due to non aircraft standard bolts being used in the engine.
Can't remember what the third was. A good friend almost joined the club
last year but his was made one month after the lot of hardware was used.
I'm talking about two seperate AD's with 3 years between them. The RVator
before the current one has a small article about an RV-8 driver throwing a
rod through his cowling on initial take off, the engine was built by a
reputable shop and the hardware was alledegly from lycoming. I'm just an
average builder, I don't hang around the airport all day or work in the
industry. For me to come into contact four times (almost) with brand new
in-the-box engine problems, through the builders I personally have known,
is a big statement about Lycomings quality control. If Don George or
Aerosport had this many public screw ups they would be done, their name
would dirt in the aviation world. However it seems that "brand new" carries
some sort of teflon coating. It seems these inexcusable mistakes do not
stick to lyco's reputation. Still they are percieved as the best piece of
mind for the money, so much so they can ask a substantial premium for their
engines. Never mind that their newness is as old a technology as you can
buy. Their sandcast cylinders greatly reduce the chance of your engine and
original cylinders making it to TBO due to the tendancy of cracks to form
in the exhaust ports. Personally I have not found anyone with a cracked
Superior cylinder, and I'm looking. My local engine rebuilder/guru says he
is still looking for his first cracked Superior Millenium cylinder, he says
the exhaust port thing is not a concern with Superior.
As far as the superior vs Lycoming engine is concerned, I keep hearing
stories about how Lyco is outsourcing everything possible, can't say that
I've heard a peep about their subcontractors or their reputation. I'm told
that AirMark in Ft. Lauderdale is building parts for the Superior kit
engine. I sure know about their reputation, top notch shop. You see them at
SNF and OSH, what an operation. I know that you can see the difference
between a lyco and a superior investment cast cylinder from about ten feet
away. The old way isn't always best. Each time I hear someone talk about
what a great value you get from Vans OEM engine program I kind of have to
scratch my head. A new old engine, with a bad quality control record for
more? For my money, I'd take a reputable engine shop with year 2000
technology (investment cast, match porting, electronic ignition, remote oil
filter, etc) over the 50 year industry standard any day of the week.
Important thing is, keep your ear to the ground as you build. Form your own
opinions based on what you have observed, not hanger talk. Get to know an
engine guy that is up to date on what is available in the industry and pick
his mind. If he even flinches at the word experamental, walk away, he's
stuck in the past. Shoot, I might be dead wrong about this, but so far I'm
convinced based on what I've seen happen the last 8 years. Lycoming is
living on their 60 year reputation, a good engine shop is as good as his
last engine. Hmm, maybe thats why Bart uses Superior.
Just my opinion, could be wrong.
Eric Henson
"Stephen Johnson" (at)matronics.com on 07/31/2001
12:24:41 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: Superior Engines
I believe in data myself on this topic. To that end, does anyone know of
problems that anyone's had with a new Lycoming from Van's? What percentage
of RV's have new Lycomings?
Steve Johnson
RV-8
finishing wings, ready to order fuse
----- Original Message -----
From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: Superior Engines
>
> Thanks for the reply Matthew. I can see this is a subject that listers
are
refraining from responding to since it's highly 'flameable', maybe even
explosive... Luckily, I'm born flameproof so I'm not worried about being
ignited. :) I still won't go away! (I know, ya'll have to suffer with me or
go away yourselves... :) )
>
> First of all: I think you're right on that experimental aircraft have a
statistically higher rate of engine failures than certified aircraft. KEEP
IN MIND #1: Many of the aircraft that make up for these stats are using
(pardon my Norwegian) SKIDOO engines (well, almost...). KEEP IN MIND #2: A
good portion (if not the largest) group of small certified aircraft have
derated engines so they will last longer for i.e. flight schools. I
regularly fly 172R's with IO-360's derated to 160hp. This is on the
opposite
spectrum of an O-360 w/hi comp pistons pushing 197hp. The math tells me too
that TBO (and probably reliabilty) must decrease substantially. So... I
obviously agree with you and I too have reservations towards the high
compression pistons. So looking away from the pistons, I think that a
Lycoming engine with Superior parts (if rebuilt) wouldn't _necessarily_ be
any better than a Superior engine with Superior parts.
>
> If you want to (for whatever reason) ensure that you have 100% Lycoming
parts in your engine, you may want to buy it new and I have heard through
several sources (not Bart!) that Lycoming is supplying new cylinders that
would be better off overhauled before use due to degrading quality. A well
known RV-lister sent me a private message saying:
>
> "Are, the main difference is: Lycoming is 1940s sand cast technology.
Superior is 1995 investment cast machined technology"
> You can probably imagine what the rest of the message leaned towards.
>
> I will not save on expenses where quality would be in question. If an
(I)O-360 from Lycoming is more reliable than the XP-360, then I'll get it.
If the XP-360 is (or will be) proven to be more reliable and better built,
then I'll buy that - even if it isn't certificated and even if there's a
threat of a lower resale value. A plane with 'the real thing' (Lycoming)
won't be worth anything if I have to land it in someones 30ft backyard with
a cracked cylinder and a rod through the cowl. Money is really no object
for
safety of the engine. I'm also thinking that the Lyc O-360A1A with
after-market Bendix fuel injection (B1B?) might be just as good or better
than the Lyc IO-360 for TBO , fuel economy and weight (disclaimer: I have
no
comparison experience - I'm only guessing except weight which is a given).
Regardless, I will personally use a Hartzell C/S prop.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming Engine Philosophy |
For those who like to while away their leisure hours pursuing
corporation operating philosophy arcana, there's a wealth of info in the
Lycoming publication/reprint library, esp. "Look What They Are Doing To
Our Engines".
Lycoming states they tried the 10:1 pistons, but to paraphrase
them--because stupid pilots didn't know how to use a throttle and
mixture control, they burned up the pistons in those engines due to
detonation and preignition! (my paraphrasing). Thus, Lycoming considers
10:1 pistons as inherently unreliable due to the intelligence (or lack,
thereof) of the general pilot population.
They also describe "porting and polishing" as a "fad" and further
crankshaft balancing and blueprinting as "unecessary" and even dangerous
"if too much metal is removed from stressed areas".
However, for potential or current Rocket builders, they do point out
that there is a beefier crankshaft recommended for -540 Lycs that
produce 290 or more HP. I cannot find any reference for a similar crank
for the -360.
Lycoming also is adamant about not using mogas in Lycoming engines NOT
APPROVED BY LYCOMING, even tho there are a multitude of STC'd uses on
most of their engines. They say it will void the warranty and cause
insurance policy cancellation!
While Lycoming insists their articles "are not intended to discourage
innovation" the bottom line seems to be is that they have a proven
product and a good share of the market and they don't want to do
anything that might lead to more litigation, so why spend profits on R&D?
Matthew Gelber (not a flame) also expressed a nostalgic return to the
simplicities of life with an 0-360 and FP prop. In fact, a fuel
injected engine has fewer moving parts, a better historical reliability,
improved performance and does away with the icing problem. And as the
venerable Mr. Bohay noted, sometime back, there's also an inherent
problem with a FP cruise prop when taking off at full power. The engine
is put in a full power, high MAP, low rpm condition that causes
increased internal cylinder pressurers (bmep's) and hence, increased
engine wear. This is not a concern at 75% or less power, but happens
every time you take off with the FP prop, however, there's nothing you
can do about it and I'm NOT suggesting pulling the power on take off.
This is covered in THE SKY RANCH ENGINEERING MANUAL under "bmep" and
"Propeller Load Factor". Theoretically, this should cause an increase
in the number of top overhauls in engines with FP props, but I don't
have any hard data to back that up.
$0.02 worth, ooops!, it's up to $0.03, now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Oshkosh RV Awards |
No Overall Grand Champion announced yet that I can see but a couple of
RV's garnered some awards.
GOLD LINDY
Homebuilt-Kit: Lyle Hefel, Dubuque, IA-RV-8, N235LH
SILVER LINDY
Homebuilt-Kit: Robert Hasson, Tucson, AZ-RV-6A, N606BH
BRONZE LINDY
Homebuilt Kit: Ross Briegleb, El Mirage, CA-RV-6A, N255H
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Crawford <toys(at)ufl.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: When To Order QB Fuselage and Finish Kit |
Terence Gannon wrote:
>
>
one option that is available from Van's (assuming that I'm willing to
> pay the price and can wait the eight months) is to buy a QB fuselage.
Terry,
This is just what I did. I sent them the unassembled bulkhead pieces
from the wings, and they sent them off in a container to the
Phillipines. They told me it would take 6 months, and is due to me in
October. (Can't Wait!)
I, too was asking myself the same question about the finishing kit. If
your tail and wings are done already (slow build), by looking at the
RV6A QB Orndorff tapes, it doesn't appear to me like there is much work
to be done on the fuse. I feel like if you can cough up another 5K, go
ahead and order it so they arrive around the same time. Me, I'm putting
in the overtime at work so I can order it ASAP. I just need to hang
ailerons and flaps, and rivet the skins.
Tom Crawford
Gainesville, FL
N262TC Flying
N???TC Wings
Mailto:toys(at)ufl.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | deltaB(at)erols.com |
| Subject: | Re: Primer Solenoid Orientation |
There are valves that work this way.
Bernie C.
Ross Mickey wrote:
>
> Are you saying that the side pressure placed on the closed value somehow
> helps to seal the valve or that fuel can seep around the closed valve and is
> sealed in only one direction?
>
> Ross
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh RV Awards |
The first two must be GREAT LOOKING planes as Ross has been working and
flying his out of APV and it is a true work of art. Good Job guys.
Tom
I just want mine to fly safely.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 1:14 PM
Subject: RV-List: Oshkosh RV Awards
>
> No Overall Grand Champion announced yet that I can see but a couple of
> RV's garnered some awards.
>
> GOLD LINDY
> Homebuilt-Kit: Lyle Hefel, Dubuque, IA-RV-8, N235LH
>
> SILVER LINDY
> Homebuilt-Kit: Robert Hasson, Tucson, AZ-RV-6A, N606BH
>
> BRONZE LINDY
> Homebuilt Kit: Ross Briegleb, El Mirage, CA-RV-6A, N255H
>
> Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> Plainfield, IL
> RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
> Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | F1 rocket kit still for sale |
F1 Rocket kit 000 is for sale. This kit was to be the team rocket display
aircraft tell the split in the partnership when it was then put up for sale
and I bought it. The airframe is 60-70% done. All work on the aircraft was
done by team rocket. The wings are complete and so is the RV 8 empagnage.
Fuselage u just have to put the flooring seats and canapy on and the engine
mount.
Also includes Vetterman stainless steel exhaust.
ELT
Team rocket Throttle quadrent
aeroflash strobes
team rocket alternator for engine
firewall insulation
canapy darken screen
heated pitot static tube with mount
I have 35,000 in this aircraft at show pricing. I am asking 40,000, per Mark
Fredricks, but if you are in a hurry to finish a Rocket, why wait in line,
buy this one and be flying months sooner.
Make me an offer, the first reasonable offer will be accepted
Chris Wilcox
927 Alpine Court
Oshkosh, WI 54901
(920) 235-1082 bus.
(920) 858-7561 cell
877-576-9213 toll free bus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "CiminoJim" <CiminoJim(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Electric Flap Indicators |
Does anyone have a solution on what to use for a sending unit for a
gauge on electric flaps. I know everyone will say that you don't need
an indicator...it's too late. I put it in the panel before I had ever
flown an RV with electric flaps. Since the indicator is in the panel,
I
would like to make it work. I have tried potentiometers from radio
shack, but they require about 300 Deg. of rotation which I can't seem
to
make work. Any one have an way to make the indicator work in an RV.
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL Reserved
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
(570)842-4057
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allen Checca" <achecca(at)concentric.net> |
I stopped by the Subaru booth at OSH and they looked pretty good.
The guy
(Englfeller?) was selling a 2.5 L engine and electric adjustable prop for
$17,000. This was complete except for cabin heat.
Does anyone have any experience with Subaru engines? What kind
of
performance do you get? He claims has setup will perform as well as a 320
with a fixed prop.
Allen Checca
6A QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Superior Engines |
[Matthew cinches down flameproof suit]
I stand by my statement that increasing the compression ratio and HP will
decrease reliability. There's a lot of things that go into it, of which one
of great importance is operator skill. If you are better than the average
pilot, you will be less likely to screw up and damage your engine by
improper operation, so maybe that's not a factor to some of you. But the
quality of fuel that you buy might be. So maybe I shouldn't call it
reliability, but use some other word. The idea I'm trying to get across is
that there's a percent chance your engine will make it to TBO. I don't know
what it is, but the chances will be lower with the higher compression
engine. Maybe it changes from 99% to 98%, or maybe its from 95% to 50%. I
don't know but then again, I don't think anyone else does, either.
I wasn't trying to say that Lycomings are better than the Superior engine.
Again, I don't know. But if you increase the compression you increase peak
cylinder pressure; you increase the amount of heat that the engine has to
dissipate; you decrease your margin for operator error. If you believe that
the Superior engine will last 2000 hours with 9.2:1 pistons, then you ought
to believe it will go longer than 2000 hours with standard pistons.
I haven't spoken with AeroSport, but I did talk to LyCon, who said the same
thing - that 10:1 pistons were fine and shouldn't affect reliability. LyCon
has a fantastic reputation, but the fact remains that I'm suspicious of
anyone who's trying to sell me something that costs $20,000. Aerosport has
a great reputation, too, loads of RVS have their engines and people love
'em. But I'm suspicious of anyone who says they can do something for half
the price of someone else.
You can decrease your margin of safety in lots of ways. For instance, you
can rebuild an engine and reuse the cylinders. You can take a new engine
and up the compression ratio, or run it at higher than normal RPMs. You can
get an "experimental" engine. You can run autogas. You can fly low and
fast on a hot day. Do whatever you want - its your plane. But I still
think you ought to think twice before doing any of these, and several more
times if you stack them on top of each other.
Matthew
8A canopy running for cover...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
| Subject: | Oshkosh RV Awards |
DID YOU ALL SEE THE LRI? $450.00!! LAST YEAR IT WAS $775. LIFTRESERVE.NET
(888) 310-4574. tHIS IS A GREAT PRICE.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Gummo
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oshkosh RV Awards
The first two must be GREAT LOOKING planes as Ross has been working and
flying his out of APV and it is a true work of art. Good Job guys.
Tom
I just want mine to fly safely.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 1:14 PM
Subject: RV-List: Oshkosh RV Awards
>
> No Overall Grand Champion announced yet that I can see but a couple of
> RV's garnered some awards.
>
> GOLD LINDY
> Homebuilt-Kit: Lyle Hefel, Dubuque, IA-RV-8, N235LH
>
> SILVER LINDY
> Homebuilt-Kit: Robert Hasson, Tucson, AZ-RV-6A, N606BH
>
> BRONZE LINDY
> Homebuilt Kit: Ross Briegleb, El Mirage, CA-RV-6A, N255H
>
> Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> Plainfield, IL
> RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
> Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WCruiser1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV8 Wing Kit for sale |
Gentlemen,
I had a buyer for my unstarted RV8 wing kit, then he found a quick build.
As I also have a new found quick build, I am looking for a new owner for the
wing kit.
$4,000 and it's yours.
Gary Gembala
Strongsville, Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Flap Indicators |
Ray Allen (Formally MAC) has a position sensor that
works with the indicators. You can get it from
http://www.rayallencompany.com
I installed mine in where the flap weldment connects
to the flap pushrod on the side of the baggage area.
Works perfectly.
====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
First Flight 7/22/01
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Subaru engines |
Stick with the conventional...I could just see a water
hose breaking and your engine overheating...not good
in there..in a car, no big deal..you pull over. You
can get a reman O-360 from Aerosport and a wood prop
for $17,000. Not to mention, no modifications to your
cowl or anything. I just don't see the benefit other
than auto gas (that is if you can find it at your
airport) I know that the airports I fly out of do not
have auto gas, so it is a non issue.
====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
First Flight 7/22/01
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Engine Run |
> The RPM thing is just a programming issue, mine did the same thing.
> Go to page 14 in the Operations Manual. Under Programming Extra Features,
> Number 6 that will fix the tach.
> Garry, love my RMI stuff.
I thought I did that but I guess I was wrong. Back to the books.
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Engine Run |
It has six new cylinders so the run was for only a couple of minutes. My
engine guy (AP) says that if we run it eight to ten times for just a couple
of minutes each time, then we will be able to run it longer for taxi checks,
etc.
Of course, the real break in will be under full power on the first flight.
Which breaks some of the rules for a conservative flight test program.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Thompson" <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: First Engine Run
>
> --- Tom Gummo wrote:
> >
> > Everybody,
> >
> > TODAY WAS A GOOD DAY !!!!!!
>
>
> Congrats to you and Kabong! I'm sure the baby-rv-grin was forming
> after that puppy fired up.
>
> How long did you run it? What was the routine?
>
> I'm still attaching hoses and such but will be wanting to run mine one
> of these days...
>
> You'll be in the air soon!
>
> Mike Thompson
> Austin, TX
> -6 N140RV (Reserved)
> Firewall Forward
>
>
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Flap Indicators |
Jim,
Check the bottom of the page on the following like to the Ray Allen Company
(formerly MAC Servo). I think they've got just what you need and are a good
vendor to work with as well.
http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/indsens.html
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
----- Original Message -----
From: "CiminoJim" <CiminoJim(at)email.msn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 8:38 PM
Subject: RV-List: Electric Flap Indicators
>
> Does anyone have a solution on what to use for a sending unit for a
> gauge on electric flaps. I know everyone will say that you don't need
>
> an indicator...it's too late. I put it in the panel before I had ever
>
> flown an RV with electric flaps. Since the indicator is in the panel,
> I
> would like to make it work. I have tried potentiometers from radio
> shack, but they require about 300 Deg. of rotation which I can't seem
> to
> make work. Any one have an way to make the indicator work in an RV.
>
> Jim Cimino
> RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL Reserved
> http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
> (570)842-4057
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Superior Engines |
I own a 1947 Stinson that had an O-435 Lycoming installed in 1949. It's
never made it to TBO since the engine has been installed and it's got a 6:1
compression ratio. I've got very complete documentation on the engine since
it was installed and it's needed cylinder work on a regular basis since '49.
I know a lot of people who own lots of different planes with different
engines and none of them that I know of have ever had an engine go to TBO
without a cylinder being replaced or some sort of major top end work being
done.
Check out the ads in Trade a Plane. How many planes do you see that read
something like 1200 hrs SMOH, 90 STOH. Most of them I guess.
My point is this, cylinders and rings will need work before TBO, that's a
fact of life in the real world that I live in. Will 9.5:1 or 10:1 pistons
shorten the top end life? Maybe. Will I be able to measure it. Probably
not. Keep the cylinder head temps in check, keep the oil temp down and
change it often and you high compression motor (within reason) will most
likely run just fine.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
> I stand by my statement that increasing the compression ratio and HP will
> decrease reliability. There's a lot of things that go into it, of which
one
> of great importance is operator skill. If you are better than the average
> pilot, you will be less likely to screw up and damage your engine by
> improper operation, so maybe that's not a factor to some of you. But the
> quality of fuel that you buy might be. So maybe I shouldn't call it
> reliability, but use some other word. The idea I'm trying to get across
is
> that there's a percent chance your engine will make it to TBO. I don't
know
> what it is, but the chances will be lower with the higher compression
> engine. Maybe it changes from 99% to 98%, or maybe its from 95% to 50%.
I
> don't know but then again, I don't think anyone else does, either.
>
> I wasn't trying to say that Lycomings are better than the Superior engine.
> Again, I don't know. But if you increase the compression you increase
peak
> cylinder pressure; you increase the amount of heat that the engine has to
> dissipate; you decrease your margin for operator error. If you believe
that
> the Superior engine will last 2000 hours with 9.2:1 pistons, then you
ought
> to believe it will go longer than 2000 hours with standard pistons.
>
> I haven't spoken with AeroSport, but I did talk to LyCon, who said the
same
> thing - that 10:1 pistons were fine and shouldn't affect reliability.
LyCon
> has a fantastic reputation, but the fact remains that I'm suspicious of
> anyone who's trying to sell me something that costs $20,000. Aerosport
has
> a great reputation, too, loads of RVS have their engines and people love
> 'em. But I'm suspicious of anyone who says they can do something for half
> the price of someone else.
>
> You can decrease your margin of safety in lots of ways. For instance, you
> can rebuild an engine and reuse the cylinders. You can take a new engine
> and up the compression ratio, or run it at higher than normal RPMs. You
can
> get an "experimental" engine. You can run autogas. You can fly low and
> fast on a hot day. Do whatever you want - its your plane. But I still
> think you ought to think twice before doing any of these, and several more
> times if you stack them on top of each other.
>
> Matthew
> 8A canopy running for cover...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Superior Engines |
Mathew,
I understand your logic, and in the absence of factual perfomance data could
even theoretically agree, but you seem to be refusing to acknowledge
existing data from engine builders you acknowledge are industry leaders. In
Lycon and Aero Sport Power you have picked two of the best. Lycon tells you
it does not effect reliability, and you haven't even spoken to Bart. Perhaps
you should finish the educational process before drawing any conclusions.
In the final analysis however the beauty of experimental aviation is that we
each get to make our own decisions. Clearly you will go with standard
compression and live happily ever after... great!
Regards,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, N558RL, 85 hrs
www.rv-8.com
> [Matthew cinches down flameproof suit]
>
> I stand by my statement that increasing the compression ratio and HP will
> decrease reliability. There's a lot of things that go into it, of which
one
> of great importance is operator skill. If you are better than the average
> pilot, you will be less likely to screw up and damage your engine by
> improper operation, so maybe that's not a factor to some of you. But the
> quality of fuel that you buy might be. So maybe I shouldn't call it
> reliability, but use some other word. The idea I'm trying to get across
is
> that there's a percent chance your engine will make it to TBO. I don't
know
> what it is, but the chances will be lower with the higher compression
> engine. Maybe it changes from 99% to 98%, or maybe its from 95% to 50%.
I
> don't know but then again, I don't think anyone else does, either.
>
> I wasn't trying to say that Lycomings are better than the Superior engine.
> Again, I don't know. But if you increase the compression you increase
peak
> cylinder pressure; you increase the amount of heat that the engine has to
> dissipate; you decrease your margin for operator error. If you believe
that
> the Superior engine will last 2000 hours with 9.2:1 pistons, then you
ought
> to believe it will go longer than 2000 hours with standard pistons.
>
> I haven't spoken with AeroSport, but I did talk to LyCon, who said the
same
> thing - that 10:1 pistons were fine and shouldn't affect reliability.
LyCon
> has a fantastic reputation, but the fact remains that I'm suspicious of
> anyone who's trying to sell me something that costs $20,000. Aerosport
has
> a great reputation, too, loads of RVS have their engines and people love
> 'em. But I'm suspicious of anyone who says they can do something for half
> the price of someone else.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 rear battery security |
Jim,
FWIW I my opinion, having built an Rear battery RV-8A, I think maybe you are
getting worried about something that is a non-issue. The tray that the
battery goes in has a pretty good sized lip on the bottom front and back, is
bolted to the fuselage frame and has a fairly hefty tie down bracket. Not
only that the baggage wall is between you and the battery. From my
experience if you hit something hard enough to have the battery come
forward, you have a whole lot more to worry about than the battery, like you
have just driven yourself into the instrument panel and engine.
This is not to be a flame. Just my opinion after seeing the end result of
many accidents.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A N809RS
>From: Jim Bean <jim-bean(at)att.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: RV-8 rear battery security
>Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 00:16:14 -0400
>
>
>listers,
>The rear battery setup in my RV-8 bothers me when I think about the
>thing becoming a missle in a crash. Has anyone played around with some
>kind of holdback? A loop of light cable around the battery, say 1/8",
>ought to do the trick if an adequate anchorage for it can be devised
>that isn't too heavy. Any thoughts?
>Jim Bean
>RV-8 fuselage/inst panel
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net> |
"Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com"
| Subject: | Lift Reserve URL... |
http://www.liftreserve.com
-Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net> |
"Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com"
| Subject: | Oshkosh RV Awards |
I bet that was an Oshkosh price... Their website still says $700...
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 9:13 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Oshkosh RV Awards
DID YOU ALL SEE THE LRI? $450.00!! LAST YEAR IT WAS $775. LIFTRESERVE.NET
(888) 310-4574. tHIS IS A GREAT PRICE.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Gummo
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oshkosh RV Awards
The first two must be GREAT LOOKING planes as Ross has been working and
flying his out of APV and it is a true work of art. Good Job guys.
Tom
I just want mine to fly safely.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 1:14 PM
Subject: RV-List: Oshkosh RV Awards
>
> No Overall Grand Champion announced yet that I can see but a couple of
> RV's garnered some awards.
>
> GOLD LINDY
> Homebuilt-Kit: Lyle Hefel, Dubuque, IA-RV-8, N235LH
>
> SILVER LINDY
> Homebuilt-Kit: Robert Hasson, Tucson, AZ-RV-6A, N606BH
>
> BRONZE LINDY
> Homebuilt Kit: Ross Briegleb, El Mirage, CA-RV-6A, N255H
>
> Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> Plainfield, IL
> RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
> Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. H. Phillips" <jhphillips(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Subaru engines |
I am also considering that engine. I have been emailing with Jan
Eggenfellner, and with several of his very satisfied customers. I suggest
you check his site at http://www.subaruaircraft.com/ and ask him directly
for info and references. He responds quickly and directly.
John H. Phillips
Dallas, Texas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen Checca" <achecca(at)concentric.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 9:34 PM
Subject: RV-List: Subaru engines
>
>
> I stopped by the Subaru booth at OSH and they looked
pretty good. The guy
> (Englfeller?) was selling a 2.5 L engine and electric adjustable prop for
> $17,000. This was complete except for cabin heat.
>
>
> Does anyone have any experience with Subaru engines? What
kind of
> performance do you get? He claims has setup will perform as well as a 320
> with a fixed prop.
>
>
> Allen Checca
> 6A QB
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Superior Engines |
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
08:33:29 AM
My local engine guru/aircraft televangelist rants and preaches about how to
make it to TBO.
Keep the oil clean (change it often and loose the stupid screen)
Fly it often, and fly it hard. He states that the problem with cylinders
especially the choked high compression type is they don't get as much
oiling in the tops of the cylinders. This is because of the time at which
the plane is forced to idle on the ground and in flight. Seems the cylinder
is happiest near full throttle, at that speed there is sufficient heat to
expand the cylinder to make the rings seat and perfectly fit the top end of
the stroke. This gives the optimum oiling available. In addition lyco fuel
systems are designed to give fuel cooling and some additional lubrication
while at full throttle. This is to prevent the high heat climbout operation
from damaging the cylinder. His case in point is that you can tell an
airplane that is operated at low RPM on a regular basis very easily, the
tops of the cylinder stroke is honed out by the rings. The worst thing you
can do according to Sensai Mark is to fall into the trap of thinking, hmmm,
I havent flown the plane in a couple of weeks, weather is bad so I'll just
go out and ground run the thing for a while to lube it up. Kiss em goodbye.
Fly it hard and fly it often.
Eric Henson
"Mike Nellis" (at)matronics.com on 08/01/2001 12:47:43
AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: Superior Engines
I own a 1947 Stinson that had an O-435 Lycoming installed in 1949. It's
never made it to TBO since the engine has been installed and it's got a 6:1
compression ratio. I've got very complete documentation on the engine
since
it was installed and it's needed cylinder work on a regular basis since
'49.
I know a lot of people who own lots of different planes with different
engines and none of them that I know of have ever had an engine go to TBO
without a cylinder being replaced or some sort of major top end work being
done.
Check out the ads in Trade a Plane. How many planes do you see that read
something like 1200 hrs SMOH, 90 STOH. Most of them I guess.
My point is this, cylinders and rings will need work before TBO, that's a
fact of life in the real world that I live in. Will 9.5:1 or 10:1 pistons
shorten the top end life? Maybe. Will I be able to measure it. Probably
not. Keep the cylinder head temps in check, keep the oil temp down and
change it often and you high compression motor (within reason) will most
likely run just fine.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
> I stand by my statement that increasing the compression ratio and HP will
> decrease reliability. There's a lot of things that go into it, of which
one
> of great importance is operator skill. If you are better than the
average
> pilot, you will be less likely to screw up and damage your engine by
> improper operation, so maybe that's not a factor to some of you. But the
> quality of fuel that you buy might be. So maybe I shouldn't call it
> reliability, but use some other word. The idea I'm trying to get across
is
> that there's a percent chance your engine will make it to TBO. I don't
know
> what it is, but the chances will be lower with the higher compression
> engine. Maybe it changes from 99% to 98%, or maybe its from 95% to 50%.
I
> don't know but then again, I don't think anyone else does, either.
>
> I wasn't trying to say that Lycomings are better than the Superior
engine.
> Again, I don't know. But if you increase the compression you increase
peak
> cylinder pressure; you increase the amount of heat that the engine has to
> dissipate; you decrease your margin for operator error. If you believe
that
> the Superior engine will last 2000 hours with 9.2:1 pistons, then you
ought
> to believe it will go longer than 2000 hours with standard pistons.
>
> I haven't spoken with AeroSport, but I did talk to LyCon, who said the
same
> thing - that 10:1 pistons were fine and shouldn't affect reliability.
LyCon
> has a fantastic reputation, but the fact remains that I'm suspicious of
> anyone who's trying to sell me something that costs $20,000. Aerosport
has
> a great reputation, too, loads of RVS have their engines and people love
> 'em. But I'm suspicious of anyone who says they can do something for
half
> the price of someone else.
>
> You can decrease your margin of safety in lots of ways. For instance,
you
> can rebuild an engine and reuse the cylinders. You can take a new engine
> and up the compression ratio, or run it at higher than normal RPMs. You
can
> get an "experimental" engine. You can run autogas. You can fly low and
> fast on a hot day. Do whatever you want - its your plane. But I still
> think you ought to think twice before doing any of these, and several
more
> times if you stack them on top of each other.
>
> Matthew
> 8A canopy running for cover...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Schreck <RonSchreck(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Wing Tip Options |
I'm debating lighting options. I see Van's has a wing tip lens kit for
$159. Is this an enclosed wingtip light lens and is it worth it? I'm
trying to decide if I should put a white light in the rudder fairing or go
with the Whelan "all in one" wingtip lights. I don't see how you could
enclose that in a flush tip lens and still see the white trailing light.
Any suggestions?
Ron Schreck
RV-8QB
Charlotte, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Are Barstad <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Subaru engines |
I wish I could talk you out of it although I have no experience with the use of
Subaru engines. I do however have very good experience with pilots using them
and their desire to kicking their 'assi' for doing it. The common denominator
is that all of them thought it was a great idea to start with but their cowlings
almost always seem to be off when I walk by their hangars. And when I look
at them doing run-up's the pilot's faces looks like they just drank a pint of
battery acid... anticipating that the pistons is about to exit through the muffler
if they give another inch.
Same horsepower at half the displacement? Well, I guess it works but the planes
having them sure sounds like a car going up a very steep hill at full throttle
(much like a underpowered boat). I also think the above analogy might be comparable
to the actual abuse at cruise in an RV.
I'm sure there are people on the list that have these engines and disagree with
me - which is fine. I'm happy for you if you're able to get airplane engine performance
out of a small, inexpensive auto engine running low test fuel.
My opinion is only worth what you paid for it. I know nothing about the subject
but like to hear myself type...
Are
RV-8 Wings
>
> From: "J. H. Phillips" <jhphillips(at)swbell.net>
> Date: 2001/08/01 Wed AM 08:26:33 EDT
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Subaru engines
>
>
> I am also considering that engine. I have been emailing with Jan
> Eggenfellner, and with several of his very satisfied customers. I suggest
> you check his site at http://www.subaruaircraft.com/ and ask him directly
> for info and references. He responds quickly and directly.
>
> John H. Phillips
> Dallas, Texas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Allen Checca" <achecca(at)concentric.net>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 9:34 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Subaru engines
>
>
> >
> >
> > I stopped by the Subaru booth at OSH and they looked
> pretty good. The guy
> > (Englfeller?) was selling a 2.5 L engine and electric adjustable prop for
> > $17,000. This was complete except for cabin heat.
> >
> >
> > Does anyone have any experience with Subaru engines? What
> kind of
> > performance do you get? He claims has setup will perform as well as a 320
> > with a fixed prop.
> >
> >
> > Allen Checca
> > 6A QB
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Arthur Glaser <airplane(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Superior Engines |
Another consideration that has not been considered is the demise of 100LL. The
150 hp 0320 is an 80 octane engine and the 160 is 91-96. There will most likely
be an alternative fuel available in the future. A higher compression engine may
exceed the octane limitations of the fuels to be produced.
Randy Lervold wrote:
>
> Mathew,
>
> I understand your logic, and in the absence of factual perfomance data could
> even theoretically agree, but you seem to be refusing to acknowledge
> existing data from engine builders you acknowledge are industry leaders. In
> Lycon and Aero Sport Power you have picked two of the best. Lycon tells you
> it does not effect reliability, and you haven't even spoken to Bart. Perhaps
> you should finish the educational process before drawing any conclusions.
>
> In the final analysis however the beauty of experimental aviation is that we
> each get to make our own decisions. Clearly you will go with standard
> compression and live happily ever after... great!
>
> Regards,
> Randy Lervold
> RV-8, N558RL, 85 hrs
> www.rv-8.com
>
> > [Matthew cinches down flameproof suit]
> >
> > I stand by my statement that increasing the compression ratio and HP will
> > decrease reliability. There's a lot of things that go into it, of which
> one
> > of great importance is operator skill. If you are better than the average
> > pilot, you will be less likely to screw up and damage your engine by
> > improper operation, so maybe that's not a factor to some of you. But the
> > quality of fuel that you buy might be. So maybe I shouldn't call it
> > reliability, but use some other word. The idea I'm trying to get across
> is
> > that there's a percent chance your engine will make it to TBO. I don't
> know
> > what it is, but the chances will be lower with the higher compression
> > engine. Maybe it changes from 99% to 98%, or maybe its from 95% to 50%.
> I
> > don't know but then again, I don't think anyone else does, either.
> >
> > I wasn't trying to say that Lycomings are better than the Superior engine.
> > Again, I don't know. But if you increase the compression you increase
> peak
> > cylinder pressure; you increase the amount of heat that the engine has to
> > dissipate; you decrease your margin for operator error. If you believe
> that
> > the Superior engine will last 2000 hours with 9.2:1 pistons, then you
> ought
> > to believe it will go longer than 2000 hours with standard pistons.
> >
> > I haven't spoken with AeroSport, but I did talk to LyCon, who said the
> same
> > thing - that 10:1 pistons were fine and shouldn't affect reliability.
> LyCon
> > has a fantastic reputation, but the fact remains that I'm suspicious of
> > anyone who's trying to sell me something that costs $20,000. Aerosport
> has
> > a great reputation, too, loads of RVS have their engines and people love
> > 'em. But I'm suspicious of anyone who says they can do something for half
> > the price of someone else.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Let me apologize in advance.
I researched the archives but I'm still not clear on applying the RTV to the
rudder stiffners and trailing edge. Anyone have a picture?
My best guess so far ... The RTV holds together the two opposing stiffner
flanges that overlap. Why then does it go all the way back to the trailing
edge? Whose finger should I use to determine a "fingertip sized glob of RTV"
Sorry to bring up this subject again.
John McDonnell
(RV7A HS, VS done; Rudder started; and have yet to mess up a rivet [yeah
right]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)velocitus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Options |
You are correct Ron, if you go with the enclosed lights you will also need
to run a light out to the tail. I have always been militantly opposed to
drag and I originally was planning to do it this way. However, the very
small amount of drag from the "all-in-one" lights convinced me that it was
better than the hassle and extra tail weight of running a light out to the
rudder. Plus you have two "tail" lights instead of one for better
visibility and the strobes have better overall visibility as well.
Ed Bundy - RV6A N427EM 400+ hours
160hp 0320 w/Sensenich 70x78
Eagle, ID
ebundy(at)velocitus.net
> I'm debating lighting options. I see Van's has a wing tip lens kit for
> $159. Is this an enclosed wingtip light lens and is it worth it? I'm
> trying to decide if I should put a white light in the rudder fairing or go
> with the Whelan "all in one" wingtip lights. I don't see how you could
> enclose that in a flush tip lens and still see the white trailing light.
> Any suggestions?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | FAA Paperwork lead time |
A fellow builder recently told me that he had submitted his paperwork to the
FAA to get his inspection. He's at about the same stage I am, needing to
mount the wings and finish the engine stuff. He said there is a 6 month
wating list (at least in California). How long before I'm finished do you
guys think I should submit my paperwork?
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV
Finishing Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
I think one of the best ways to get your engine to or near TBO is to fly a
lot. We used to work on the Super Cubs used by BLM for coyote hunting in
Montana. Those airplanes were in the air all the time and had very few
problems. One O-320-150 had 3200 hours on it and still compressed fine but
the BLM office wanted it torn down. It was like taking apart a new engine.
When we put it back together, there was so little wear, everything was
replaced standard, including main crank bearings. Amazing. Pretty good
engines, those Lycs. Just have to use them a lot. It would be difficult for
us to fly as much unless we used our airplanes in our business (laws against
that, I guess). Point is, flying a lot is good for the airplane AND the
pilot. And don't we have some sweet-flying airplanes that make you WANT to
fly more.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Why, take my flights to and from OSH as an example. We don't realize how
fast 152 knots is until we are bucking a 20 knot headwind and we are still
making pretty good time. I was staying in touch with someone behind me that
was only doing 100kts and.........................
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Superior Engines |
--- Arthur Glaser wrote:
>
> Another consideration that has not been considered is the demise of
> 100LL. The
> 150 hp 0320 is an 80 octane engine and the 160 is 91-96. There will
> most likely
> be an alternative fuel available in the future. A higher compression
> engine may exceed the octane limitations of the fuels to be produced.
This is why, temping as it was to have Bart put the "H" pistons in my
O-360, I stayed stock.
The new Sport Aviation has a great article on the replacement fuel
issue... it sucks that fuel burn will go up - you'll have to read the
article for the technical details...
Anyone running mogas in their O-360... reliably?
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)velocitus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder & RTV |
Actually, what you're trying to do is fill the trailing edge bend aft of the
stiffeners. You don't need to hold the stiffeners together, you just want
to minimize the flexing of the skin aft of the stiffeners. Some people have
had problems with that area of the skin cracking from the last stiffener
rivet to the trailing edge. Filling that small area with RTV seems to
eliminate the cracking for most people.
A fingertip isn't the most precise unit of measurement, but it doesn't
really take much, just a little blob to fill the t.e. I do *not* however
recommend using your wife's finger...
Ed Bundy - RV6A N427EM 400+ hours
160hp 0320 w/Sensenich 70x78
Eagle, ID
ebundy(at)velocitus.net
> My best guess so far ... The RTV holds together the two opposing stiffner
> flanges that overlap. Why then does it go all the way back to the
trailing
> edge? Whose finger should I use to determine a "fingertip sized glob of
RTV"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Superior Engines |
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
> Keep the oil clean (change it often and loose the stupid screen)
I hadn't heard the advice about losing the screen before. What advantage
does that give?
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Subaru engines |
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
I agree with Are. I think Subaru engines are great. I owned a Subaru, put
300,000 km on it, and was very impressed with how reliable and bulletproof
the engine was. I think it's a great engine that you could realiably count
on for 100 horsepower or so in an airplane application. But revving it to
5,000+ RPM to get 150+ horsepower? No, not for me. I haven't worked out
the piston speed, accelerations, and BMEPs required for the numbers I've
seen quoted by some Subaru advocates, but I'm certain they'd scare me.
Tedd McHenry
Surry, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nearly Complete Rv-4 and O-320 For Sale |
Todd,
I just got off the phone with you. My phone # is (559) 935-3776 email
the pictures at your earliest convenience. I do have cash and would pay for
shipping. Thanks,
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
| Subject: | Lift Reserve URL... |
LIFTRESERVE.NET is the $450 one. The .com guy is $700! Same product. The
.NET guys have a smaller probe. better looking.
Thanks.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 6:58 AM
Subject: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
http://www.liftreserve.com
-Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
| Subject: | Oshkosh RV Awards |
.com guy is new dealer. He is $700. $450 is permanent price for the LRI
from the .NET folks. 888-310-4574
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 7:03 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Oshkosh RV Awards
I bet that was an Oshkosh price... Their website still says $700...
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 9:13 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Oshkosh RV Awards
DID YOU ALL SEE THE LRI? $450.00!! LAST YEAR IT WAS $775. LIFTRESERVE.NET
(888) 310-4574. tHIS IS A GREAT PRICE.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Gummo
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oshkosh RV Awards
The first two must be GREAT LOOKING planes as Ross has been working and
flying his out of APV and it is a true work of art. Good Job guys.
Tom
I just want mine to fly safely.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 1:14 PM
Subject: RV-List: Oshkosh RV Awards
>
> No Overall Grand Champion announced yet that I can see but a couple of
> RV's garnered some awards.
>
> GOLD LINDY
> Homebuilt-Kit: Lyle Hefel, Dubuque, IA-RV-8, N235LH
>
> SILVER LINDY
> Homebuilt-Kit: Robert Hasson, Tucson, AZ-RV-6A, N606BH
>
> BRONZE LINDY
> Homebuilt Kit: Ross Briegleb, El Mirage, CA-RV-6A, N255H
>
> Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> Plainfield, IL
> RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
> Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder & RTV |
> Why then does it go all the way back to the trailing
> edge? Whose finger should I use to determine a "fingertip sized glob of RTV"
It's not that critical. An imaginary average size finger will work just fine.
The idea is just to minimize or dampen the movement of the skin during flight
which gives a margin of error in case your trailing edge bend is not as good as
it could be. Plenty of RVs are flying without it without problems.
If you want to look into further, there are discussions and drawings on the topic
in the RV-ator.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Superior Engines |
--- Tedd McHenry wrote:
>
> > Keep the oil clean (change it often and loose the stupid screen)
>
> I hadn't heard the advice about losing the screen before. What
> advantage does that give?
He means replace it with a filter.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Superior Engines |
Randy-
I agree- except that I don't want anyone to think I believe I'm going to
live happy every after with my standard Lyc engine... I'm not so sure
they're that great. In fact, I think that if I become a smoking hole in the
ground in a few years it'll because my $30000 engine crapped out on me. I'm
also not against modifying engines per se - for instance I'd love to get a
ride in your plane (if it were offered!). I'm not so leery of these engines
that I wouldn't fly behind one, happily, for many many hours. I just would
want to open it up and see what's inside a little sooner than I would with a
standard compression engine.
Take care,
Matthew
8A canopy
>
......
>
> In the final analysis however the beauty of experimental aviation is that
we
> each get to make our own decisions. Clearly you will go with standard
> compression and live happily ever after... great!
>
> Regards,
> Randy Lervold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Lancair accidents |
Because we do an affiliate book store site with Lancair, I also subscribe to the
Lancair Mailing List.
Over the past few months, I've become amazed at the number of reported Lancair
accidents, many which involve fatalities. I haven't kept count, but I'm sure
substantially more than the RV accidents discussed on this list.
Considering that there are 10 times as many flying RVs as flying Lancairs yet more
Lancair accidents than RV accidents is proof again of the incredible design
and quality of Van's products.
Another factor may be; I've heard that a far greater percentage of Lancairs than
RVs, are built by someone other than the owner/pilot. The typical Lancair pilot
writes a big check and a year later goes flying. The typical RV pilot devotes
4-5 years of his life becoming intimately knowledgable about his aircraft.
It is something of extreme pride; not just profits from a good stock trade.
I think that's a big part of the safety record too.
Any thoughts?
Andy
RV-6A - flying
RV-10 - waiting
Lancair 4 - forgetting about
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Superior Engines |
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
11:20:25 AM
The screen does not get the smaller particles that are still destructive. I
believe Sky Ranch has some good info on this. I'll go home tonight and try
to find it and paraphrase it. Basically the screen allows particles through
that are small enough to get through but large enough to destroy your
polished surfaces ie. cam lobes, tappet faces etc.
I'll try to follow up.
ERic
Tedd McHenry (at)matronics.com on 08/01/2001 10:30:24
AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Superior Engines
> Keep the oil clean (change it often and loose the stupid screen)
I hadn't heard the advice about losing the screen before. What advantage
does that give?
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Reduced TBO with high compression pistons |
| From: | "John Allen" <fliier(at)onebox.com> |
I put the high compression pistons in the O-320E2D in my RV-6A. I wont
disagree with the fellow who stated that I might expect a lower actual
TBO as a result. It certainly isnt going to help the TBO.
I have a question, though, which perhaps someone on the list can answer.
When do I get that extra horsepower?
Sitting on the ramp with full throttle Im pulling 2150 RPM with the
fixed pitch Sensenich. Im certainly not getting 160HP there. On climb
out Im turning 2300 RPM. Certainly Im not getting 160 HP then. In
cruise Im turning <2600 due to the Prop restriction on my engine. Apparently
Im not getting 160HP there either.
Somewhere in my mind Im thinking that every part of my engine is rated
for at least 150 HP and thats probably the most Im getting. The high
compression pistons are merely making my engine/prop combination less
INefficient than normal, but never do they allow me to exceed the rated
horsepower. Unfortunately I didnt have the foresight to install a MP
gauge so I dont have a reliable means of measuring power.
Perhaps this discussion of reduced TBO is only for the rich folks with
constant speed props.
--
John "failed physics in college" Allen
RV-6A flying
Sign Up Now! http://www.onebox.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | FAA Paperwork lead time - Follow up |
For those of you in Central California here's a followup:
I just called the Fresno FSDO. They do, in fact, still do inspections or
they have a DAR that you can call. Time between the time they receive your
paperwork and when they call you to set up an inspection time is
approximately two weeks. He also said they would not be too happy if they
called to set up your inspection and you weren't ready. He said he would
understand if it was an extenuating circumstance such as equipment failure,
or the hangar door falling on your plane.
-----Original Message-----
From: Van Artsdalen, Scott [mailto:svanarts(at)unionsafe.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 7:04 AM
Subject: RV-List: FAA Paperwork lead time
A fellow builder recently told me that he had submitted his paperwork to the
FAA to get his inspection. He's at about the same stage I am, needing to
mount the wings and finish the engine stuff. He said there is a 6 month
wating list (at least in California). How long before I'm finished do you
guys think I should submit my paperwork?
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV
Finishing Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> |
| Subject: | Lift Reserve URL... |
that does not seem to be a valid URL... It sends here:
http://www.milenginc.com/
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:34 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
LIFTRESERVE.NET is the $450 one. The .com guy is $700! Same product. The
.NET guys have a smaller probe. better looking.
Thanks.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 6:58 AM
Subject: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
http://www.liftreserve.com
-Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Lancair accidents |
How do Lancair's handle vs RV's? Anyone ever done a side by side
comparison? I'm sure their stall speed is higher. What kind of accidents
are they predominately? Stuctural failure? Stall/spin? Landing accidents,
departure accidents? VFR into IMC?
-----Original Message-----
From: Builder's Bookstore [mailto:winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:05 AM
Subject: RV-List: Lancair accidents
Because we do an affiliate book store site with Lancair, I also subscribe to
the Lancair Mailing List.
Over the past few months, I've become amazed at the number of reported
Lancair accidents, many which involve fatalities. I haven't kept count, but
I'm sure substantially more than the RV accidents discussed on this list.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com> |
| Subject: | Annual Conditional Inspections |
Here is a question for you F.A.R. experts.
On a purchased aircraft, is the annual due 12 months after you purchase the
aircraft
or are you required to keep the same schedule as the previous owner?
Example;
Annuals done in October by previous owner.
Aircraft purchased in February of the following year.
Ed Cole
RV6A N2169D Flying
RV6A N648RV Finishing
Maxim Home Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com
Products Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/MaximProducts/products.htm
New Products:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/new_products.cfm
Datasheets:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/l_datasheet3.cfm
The information contained in this message is confidential
and may be legally privileged. The message is intended
solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Lift Reserve URL... |
Woha here a minute.................
I'm the .COM guy and I'll match the $450 price that is mentioned
here. Just to let all of you know, I haven't had time to change the prices
on the Website yet but due to the competition trying to price me out of
business for the analog model I am matching his $450 price and also will
offer the heated version for $500. I have the small probes also and I will
further discount the above price by $50 for the larger probe since I have a
stock of those too.
Al
Al Mojzisik
InAir Instruments, LLC
Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI)
AOA and SO much more!
http://www.liftreserve.com
>
>LIFTRESERVE.NET is the $450 one. The .com guy is $700! Same product. The
>.NET guys have a smaller probe. better looking.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bill
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
>Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 6:58 AM
>To: Rv8list(at)Egroups.Com; Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com
>Subject: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
>
>
>http://www.liftreserve.com
>
>-Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | DAR vs. Feds (Was FAA Paperwork) |
The DAR provides a great service. Yes, it costs
money, but they are more understanding of
circumstances, can come out quicker, and are generally
easier to work with. A perfect example, I was going
to go the FAA route and I had lost my builder's log
when my computer crashed. (Which is why I am
developing a software package to take care of this!)
He said I would have to go back to day one and do a
day by day journal of what I did, accompanied with the
proper pictures. Um...no thanks...3 1/2 years back?
The DAR said, "your website will work" and asked for a
copy on CD. I gave it to him and he said, "that's
perfect"
'nuff said. My $200 was very well spent.
====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
First Flight 7/22/01
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | RV engine failure statistics and knowledge base |
[Matthew peeks out of flameproof suit]
I just took a quick scan back through the last year and a half's RV
accidents on the NTSB web site. There were 28 of them (I got sleepy after a
while, it was late), which boiled down this way:
12 Loss of control without mechanical failure (or at least none mentioned)
3 Control system failure (a broken flap pushrod, an unscrewed elevator
pushrod, and another elevator control problem)
1 Running out of gas
2 Bad weather
1 Prop failure
And:
9, count em, 9 engine failures
I'm sure you could argue the way I categorized these accidents, its really
not that easy to do, since most have multiple factors and I just picked the
one that seemed most important. Its pretty subjective.
Anyway, for most of the engine failures the cause isn't stated, so a couple
of them could also have been running out of gas- but it does account for 1/3
of the accidents. Does anyone know the root causes of these? If you
forward them to me I can make up a list of what went wrong. As I said
before, our rate of engine failure is awfully high. When these accidents
happen I bet the owner/builder doesn't like to talk about it (I wouldn't
either) so we never find out what happened, and the lessons learned don't
make it into the RV builder knowledge base. It would be a shame for the
same mistake to be made more than once.
A description of the fuel system would be great- its more likely most of
these were fuel system failures rather than mechanical engine failures.
I'll keep it anonymous (unless you want to be identified), just please
reference the date and location and tell me how you know what you are saying
is true (i.e., you built it, you saw it built, you heard it from the
builder, you heard it from the guy who was in the next hanger).
Matthew
8A canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Annual Conditional Inspections |
Annual condition inspection is due a year after the last condition inspection,
as entered in the aircraft log book.
Finn
"Cole, Ed" wrote:
>
> Here is a question for you F.A.R. experts.
>
> On a purchased aircraft, is the annual due 12 months after you purchase the
> aircraft
> or are you required to keep the same schedule as the previous owner?
> Example;
> Annuals done in October by previous owner.
> Aircraft purchased in February of the following year.
>
> Ed Cole
> RV6A N2169D Flying
> RV6A N648RV Finishing
>
> Maxim Home Page:
> http://www.maxim-ic.com
> Products Page:
> http://www.maxim-ic.com/MaximProducts/products.htm
> New Products:
> http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/new_products.cfm
> Datasheets:
> http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/l_datasheet3.cfm
> The information contained in this message is confidential
> and may be legally privileged. The message is intended
> solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
> or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
> by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
>
----------------------------------------------------
NetZero Platinum
Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Lift Reserve URL... |
Listers,
If anyone else is having trouble getting > www.liftreserve.com < to
come up I would like to know. Especially if it sends you to the web
address below since that is who manufactures the electronic version of the
LRI. I don't want to believe that there is some Internet chicanery going on
here but you never know. Thanks, AL
>
>that does not seem to be a valid URL... It sends here:
>http://www.milenginc.com/
>
>-Bill
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
>Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:34 AM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
>
>
>LIFTRESERVE.NET is the $450 one. The .com guy is $700! Same product. The
>.NET guys have a smaller probe. better looking.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bill
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
>Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 6:58 AM
>To: Rv8list(at)Egroups.Com; Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com
>Subject: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
>
>
>http://www.liftreserve.com
>
>-Bill
>
>
Al Mojzisik
InAir Instruments, LLC
Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI)
AOA and SO much more!
http://www.liftreserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | LRI was Oshkosh RV Awards |
Listers,
For all of you reading the below post I just want you to know that the
sender is the other manufacturer of and co-patent holder of the LRI. It
appears to me that he wants you to believe this is coming from just another
list member. Also last year the unit was $650 at Oshkosh not $775. I will
be matching his price for the analog unit of $450 and $500 with heat as he
tries to drive me out of business. I have to get the prices changed on
my website > www.liftreserve.com < but I will honor any and all orders
that I receive for the above prices. Now I know how Matt felt when JPI
went after him. AL (614) 890-6301
Panel Mount - same day shipping
Glareshield Mount - 48 hours shipping
>
>DID YOU ALL SEE THE LRI? $450.00!! LAST YEAR IT WAS $775. LIFTRESERVE.NET
>(888) 310-4574. tHIS IS A GREAT PRICE.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Gummo
>Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 5:49 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Oshkosh RV Awards
>
>
>The first two must be GREAT LOOKING planes as Ross has been working and
>flying his out of APV and it is a true work of art. Good Job guys.
>
>Tom
>I just want mine to fly safely.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
>To: "RV-List" ; "Paul Golias"
>Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 1:14 PM
>Subject: RV-List: Oshkosh RV Awards
>
>
> >
> > No Overall Grand Champion announced yet that I can see but a couple of
> > RV's garnered some awards.
> >
> > GOLD LINDY
> > Homebuilt-Kit: Lyle Hefel, Dubuque, IA-RV-8, N235LH
> >
> > SILVER LINDY
> > Homebuilt-Kit: Robert Hasson, Tucson, AZ-RV-6A, N606BH
> >
> > BRONZE LINDY
> > Homebuilt Kit: Ross Briegleb, El Mirage, CA-RV-6A, N255H
> >
> > Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> > Plainfield, IL
> > RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
> > Stinson 108-2 N9666K
> >
> >
>
>
Al Mojzisik
InAir Instruments, LLC
Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI)
AOA and SO much more!
http://www.liftreserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scot Stambaugh <sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Annual Conditional Inspections |
The annual is due no more that a year after the last inspection. However,
If you want to change the schedule you can either do it earlier if you
don't want to interrupt your flying time and ten all annuals that follow
will be due by that new date, or you can do it later but you can't fly past
the one year mark from the previous inspection. You have the freedom to
make the annual inspection fall whenever you want.
scot
>
>Annual condition inspection is due a year after the last condition inspection,
>as entered in the aircraft log book.
>
>Finn
>
>"Cole, Ed" wrote:
>
> >
> > Here is a question for you F.A.R. experts.
> >
> > On a purchased aircraft, is the annual due 12 months after you purchase the
> > aircraft
> > or are you required to keep the same schedule as the previous owner?
> > Example;
> > Annuals done in October by previous owner.
> > Aircraft purchased in February of the following year.
> >
> > Ed Cole
> > RV6A N2169D Flying
> > RV6A N648RV Finishing
> >
> > Maxim Home Page:
> > http://www.maxim-ic.com
> > Products Page:
> > http://www.maxim-ic.com/MaximProducts/products.htm
> > New Products:
> > http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/new_products.cfm
> > Datasheets:
> > http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/l_datasheet3.cfm
> > The information contained in this message is confidential
> > and may be legally privileged. The message is intended
> > solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended
> > recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
> > or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
> > If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
> > by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
> >
>
>----------------------------------------------------
>NetZero Platinum
>Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
>http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
| Subject: | Re: RV Forums at Oshkosh |
For those of you who attended Van's RV forums at Oshkosh, what kind of
stuff was discussed?
One thing that was brought up was the spin performance of the various models- my
suspicion is this is one reason for the larger vert stab/rudder on the more
recent designs. Anyone with actual spin recovery experience care to comment on
best recovery technique? Even better if you've spun both the older and newer
(large tail) versions. Van says to not let it get past 1-1/2 turns or the world
starts going 'round real fast! I love spins, but they're pretty benign (plus a
lotta fun!) in a 150...
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips -6A, fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lift Reserve URL... |
Al,
Your site www.liftreserve.com comes up fine when I try it. However, if
you inter www.liftreserve.net then it redirets you to the www.milenginc.com
site.
Ed Anderson
Matthews, NC
Rv-6A N494BW
Subject: RE: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
>
> Listers,
>
> If anyone else is having trouble getting > www.liftreserve.com < to
> come up I would like to know. Especially if it sends you to the web
> address below since that is who manufactures the electronic version of the
> LRI. I don't want to believe that there is some Internet chicanery going
on
> here but you never know. Thanks, AL
>
>
> >
> >that does not seem to be a valid URL... It sends here:
> >http://www.milenginc.com/
> >
> >-Bill
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
> >Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:34 AM
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: RE: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
> >
> >
> >
> >LIFTRESERVE.NET is the $450 one. The .com guy is $700! Same product. The
> >.NET guys have a smaller probe. better looking.
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Bill
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
> >Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 6:58 AM
> >To: Rv8list(at)Egroups.Com; Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com
> >Subject: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
> >
> >
> >
> >http://www.liftreserve.com
> >
> >-Bill
> >
> >
>
> Al Mojzisik
> InAir Instruments, LLC
> Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI)
> AOA and SO much more!
> http://www.liftreserve.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
Listers,
I have changed the prices for the LRI on the website > www.liftreserve.com
<. If any of you know where anymore posts like the earlier one to the
RV-List were posted I would appreciate knowing where. I would especially
like to know of any more lists where this might have been posted so that I
can inform the aviation public of the situation. I am sorry for bothering
the list with this non-RV related information but there isn't much else I
can do. Thanks for your understanding....AL
Al Mojzisik
InAir Instruments, LLC
Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI)
AOA and SO much more!
http://www.liftreserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> |
| Subject: | Lift Reserve URL... |
Actually, I was trying to get to the ".net" address...
Anyway, since your matching, or beating their prices, then there is no
reason to go to the .net guy...
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Al Mojzisik
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:07 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
Listers,
If anyone else is having trouble getting > www.liftreserve.com < to
come up I would like to know. Especially if it sends you to the web
address below since that is who manufactures the electronic version of the
LRI. I don't want to believe that there is some Internet chicanery going on
here but you never know. Thanks, AL
>
>that does not seem to be a valid URL... It sends here:
>http://www.milenginc.com/
>
>-Bill
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
>Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:34 AM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
>
>
>LIFTRESERVE.NET is the $450 one. The .com guy is $700! Same product. The
>.NET guys have a smaller probe. better looking.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bill
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
>Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 6:58 AM
>To: Rv8list(at)Egroups.Com; Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com
>Subject: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
>
>
>http://www.liftreserve.com
>
>-Bill
>
>
Al Mojzisik
InAir Instruments, LLC
Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI)
AOA and SO much more!
http://www.liftreserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Are Barstad <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Lift Reserve URL... |
I would like to hear from people on the list that have an LRI installed. What are
your experiences?
I wouldn't mind to see a _clear_ picture of an installation with the smaller probes
either. The picture on Al's website doesn't really tell me much due to its
poor quality.
Anyone?
Are
RV-8 Wings
>
> From: Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com>
> Date: 2001/08/01 Wed PM 01:23:11 EDT
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
>
>
> Actually, I was trying to get to the ".net" address...
>
> Anyway, since your matching, or beating their prices, then there is no
> reason to go to the .net guy...
>
> -Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Al Mojzisik
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:07 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
>
>
>
> Listers,
>
> If anyone else is having trouble getting > www.liftreserve.com < to
> come up I would like to know. Especially if it sends you to the web
> address below since that is who manufactures the electronic version of the
> LRI. I don't want to believe that there is some Internet chicanery going on
> here but you never know. Thanks, AL
>
>
> >
> >that does not seem to be a valid URL... It sends here:
> >http://www.milenginc.com/
> >
> >-Bill
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
> >Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:34 AM
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: RE: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
> >
> >
> >
> >LIFTRESERVE.NET is the $450 one. The .com guy is $700! Same product. The
> >.NET guys have a smaller probe. better looking.
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Bill
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
> >Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 6:58 AM
> >To: Rv8list(at)Egroups.Com; Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com
> >Subject: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
> >
> >
> >
> >http://www.liftreserve.com
> >
> >-Bill
> >
> >
>
> Al Mojzisik
> InAir Instruments, LLC
> Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI)
> AOA and SO much more!
> http://www.liftreserve.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Does anyone have a Terra 760D that they don't want, let me know.
I'll pay market price (not bargain hunting). Trimble has now dumped
Terra ( in the last couple of days) to a company called Preflight
Systems. My radio was back at Trimble for a warranty repair. I have
spent hours on hold in a loop waiting to talk to a live human to find
out where my radio is.
Help! Please respond off list, to versadek(at)earthlink.net, thanks.
Garry,
RV6 N297DG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
| Subject: | Lift Reserve URL... |
Millenium Engineering is the manufacturer of the electronic LRI. They also
take order,package, and ship the LRI's. I talked with them yesterday. LRI
site got buried in the new front page. Soon it will be back. So they say.
Bill
--Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:29 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
that does not seem to be a valid URL... It sends here:
http://www.milenginc.com/
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:34 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
LIFTRESERVE.NET is the $450 one. The .com guy is $700! Same product. The
.NET guys have a smaller probe. better looking.
Thanks.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 6:58 AM
Subject: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
http://www.liftreserve.com
-Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
| Subject: | LRI was Oshkosh RV Awards |
All readers, we are not hiding who we are. The price is $450. Last years
price to the public was $775. $650 was the price to RV owners. They have
always been given a better price. This agreement was worked out long before
last Oshkosh. Due to lower manufacturing costs, and the competition in the
AOA business, we felt to survive, the price would be brought more in line
with the competition. We don't consider Mr. Mojzisik competition. Everyone
should fly with AOA. We just hope you choose the LRI. We don't want anyone
to go out of business. Competition is good. It drives the market and the
economey. Best of luck to Mr. Mojzisik. We wish him well.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Al Mojzisik
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 11:19 AM
Subject: RV-List: LRI was Oshkosh RV Awards
Listers,
For all of you reading the below post I just want you to know that the
sender is the other manufacturer of and co-patent holder of the LRI. It
appears to me that he wants you to believe this is coming from just another
list member. Also last year the unit was $650 at Oshkosh not $775. I will
be matching his price for the analog unit of $450 and $500 with heat as he
tries to drive me out of business. I have to get the prices changed on
my website > www.liftreserve.com < but I will honor any and all orders
that I receive for the above prices. Now I know how Matt felt when JPI
went after him. AL (614) 890-6301
Panel Mount - same day shipping
Glareshield Mount - 48 hours shipping
>
>DID YOU ALL SEE THE LRI? $450.00!! LAST YEAR IT WAS $775. LIFTRESERVE.NET
>(888) 310-4574. tHIS IS A GREAT PRICE.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Gummo
>Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 5:49 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Oshkosh RV Awards
>
>
>The first two must be GREAT LOOKING planes as Ross has been working and
>flying his out of APV and it is a true work of art. Good Job guys.
>
>Tom
>I just want mine to fly safely.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
>To: "RV-List" ; "Paul Golias"
>Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 1:14 PM
>Subject: RV-List: Oshkosh RV Awards
>
>
> >
> > No Overall Grand Champion announced yet that I can see but a couple of
> > RV's garnered some awards.
> >
> > GOLD LINDY
> > Homebuilt-Kit: Lyle Hefel, Dubuque, IA-RV-8, N235LH
> >
> > SILVER LINDY
> > Homebuilt-Kit: Robert Hasson, Tucson, AZ-RV-6A, N606BH
> >
> > BRONZE LINDY
> > Homebuilt Kit: Ross Briegleb, El Mirage, CA-RV-6A, N255H
> >
> > Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> > Plainfield, IL
> > RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
> > Stinson 108-2 N9666K
> >
> >
>
>
Al Mojzisik
InAir Instruments, LLC
Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI)
AOA and SO much more!
http://www.liftreserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
| Subject: | DAR vs. Feds (Was FAA Paperwork) |
DAR's are truly sent from above. Most of them probably have built airplanes.
I have used them 4 times in 2 years. No bull, cut to the chase kind of guys
that understand what you're doing. Our MIDO said they would put us on their
appointment book - 1 year! NOT!
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Besing
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:39 AM
Subject: RV-List: DAR vs. Feds (Was FAA Paperwork)
The DAR provides a great service. Yes, it costs
money, but they are more understanding of
circumstances, can come out quicker, and are generally
easier to work with. A perfect example, I was going
to go the FAA route and I had lost my builder's log
when my computer crashed. (Which is why I am
developing a software package to take care of this!)
He said I would have to go back to day one and do a
day by day journal of what I did, accompanied with the
proper pictures. Um...no thanks...3 1/2 years back?
The DAR said, "your website will work" and asked for a
copy on CD. I gave it to him and he said, "that's
perfect"
'nuff said. My $200 was very well spent.
====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
First Flight 7/22/01
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
| Subject: | Annual Conditional Inspections |
Annual date changes if you do another annual. Otherwise October it is.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cole, Ed
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:35 AM
Subject: RV-List: Annual Conditional Inspections
Here is a question for you F.A.R. experts.
On a purchased aircraft, is the annual due 12 months after you purchase the
aircraft
or are you required to keep the same schedule as the previous owner?
Example;
Annuals done in October by previous owner.
Aircraft purchased in February of the following year.
Ed Cole
RV6A N2169D Flying
RV6A N648RV Finishing
Maxim Home Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com
Products Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/MaximProducts/products.htm
New Products:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/new_products.cfm
Datasheets:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/l_datasheet3.cfm
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| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
OSH 2001 is now in the history books. May not have been the most successful
year but it was OK. I am one of the volunteers that help make the place run
(what? You mean you DON'T volunteer?). There were three major accidents that
we as worker bees were aware of, two had bad outcomes. But it is a
remarkable thing that, on a good year 12 to 13,000 airplanes will show up at
OSH, most driven by pilots that average 25-50 hours a year, flying into a
relatively complex system and most manage to get on the ground and off again
without incident.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lancair accidents |
> Over the past few months, I've become amazed at the number of reported
Lancair accidents......
There were several designs I was considering early in my pre-builder era:
the RV-4, Lancair 320 and the GlasAir tail dragger. There were many
considerations that culminated with my choosing the -4, not the least of
which was tandem seating. I was used to flying Cubs. Someone sitting next to
me would scar the hell out of me. (WHATohyeahIremember now. Here; hold this
map, will ya.) Which means I was also used to landing an airplane on the
slow side of the ASI. The nose coming up to block the entire runway with the
GlasAir only sort of bothered me (J-3 Cub from the back seat may not be much
better.) But the landing speed. Hmmmm.
Lancairs fly fast. They also land fast. Which is OK as long as you are
landing where you had intended to land. There is a logrhythmic change in
deceleration forces from 55 mph and 85 mph when rocks and trees are slowing
the airplane down.
The wing on a Lancair doesn't care to fly slowly much. A friend of mine did
a test flight at the factory and the pilot let him take off, fly it and do
pretty much what he wanted, but wouldn't let him land it; took over in the
pattern. Hmmmmm. Just how squirrelly does it get when slowed down? I don't
know. But, as we RV pilots know, the RV wing just hugs the air at slow
speeds, and doesn't seem to have any sudden loss of control near a stall.
Witness me flying formation with a J-3 the other day. Stall characteristics
in a properly rigged RV are pretty straight forward.
> Considering that there are 10 times as many flying RVs as flying Lancairs
yet more Lancair accidents than RV accidents is proof again of the
incredible design and quality of Van's products.
Roger that.
> Another factor may be; I've heard that a far greater percentage of
Lancairs than RVs, are built by someone other than the owner/pilot....
I might argue this some. There are quite a few factory-builts out there that
people fly without knowing squat about the airplane except what hole the
fuel goes in and what hole the oil goes in. Ask the typical Cessna pilot the
advantages and disadvantages of certain performance corners or structural
areas and you'll likely get a blank stare.
The Lancair line of airplanes are high-performance craft. That means that it
also takes a lot of pilot skills to keep the shiny side up. It may be that
those wealthy enough to afford a Lancair IV, for example, may be too busy
making money rather than keeping their flying skills up. But there are a lot
of Bonanza's and Mooney's out there that argues against that.
Without knowing what accidents predominate the Lancair aircraft, no
conclusion can be drawn. And even if we know, may not be able to say. One of
the accidents at OSH this year was a new GlasAir pilot that got in line from
Fisk and got WAY too slow (for a GlasAir)behind someone flying slow.
("Unable to comply with that request, sir.")
A pilot tends to fly more often in an aircraft he/she is comfortable flying.
Many homebuilt aircraft don't fly much, perhaps because they don't fly that
well. Our aircraft fly better than just about ANY other airplane flying.
HOWEVER, any airplane requires you to stay current and ahead of the
airplane. The great thing about the RV's is that they will offer you the
opportunity to make yourself a better pilot. Take up the challenge.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Lancair and GlasAir? What was I THINKing???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | LRI was Oshkosh RV Awards |
I couldn't agree more with Mr. Geipel Re: flying by AOA and enough said.
Thanks to all listers for your Off-List support and your phone
calls. This is getting exciting because I hope the new price will get more
AOA (LRI) indicators in more and more aircraft and make them safer. AL
>
>All readers, (Snip) Everyone should fly with AOA. We just hope you choose
>the LRI. We don't want anyone to go out of business. Competition is good.
>It drives the market and the economey. (Snip)
>Bill
>
InAir Instruments, LLC
Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI)
AOA and SO much more!
http://www.liftreserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Annual Conditional Inspections |
One can extend the annual to cover 13 months by signing off on the 1st of
the month as it is good for 12 full month from the date it was signed. The
annual month then moves back one month each year. You may or may not want
to do it that way but if you are a paying, it cuts your costs some what.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
From: "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 1:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Annual Conditional Inspections
Annual date changes if you do another annual. Otherwise October it is.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cole, Ed
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:35 AM
Subject: RV-List: Annual Conditional Inspections
Here is a question for you F.A.R. experts.
On a purchased aircraft, is the annual due 12 months after you purchase the
aircraft
or are you required to keep the same schedule as the previous owner?
Example;
Annuals done in October by previous owner.
Aircraft purchased in February of the following year.
Ed Cole
RV6A N2169D Flying
RV6A N648RV Finishing
Maxim Home Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com
Products Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/MaximProducts/products.htm
New Products:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/new_products.cfm
Datasheets:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/l_datasheet3.cfm
The information contained in this message is confidential
and may be legally privileged. The message is intended
solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Speaking of FAA paperwork |
| From: | pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com |
08/01/2001 03:00:36 PM
I feel the need to share my experiences with the FAA and the inspection
process...
About 4 weeks ago I submitted paperwork to a local DAR I had lined up to
inspect my aircraft. Among other things, he asked that I send him a letter
requesting a test flight area. He suggested I include a photocopied
sectional with the proposed area indicated. He explained to me that the
FAA recently took back control over test flight area approvals and that the
DARs were only middle-men for this portion of the process. My DAR
forwarded my request to the local FSDO (Bedford, MA). The FAA promptly got
back to him and said that my home airfield (Hanscom Field, Bedford, MA) is
too busy and surrounded by too many people to safely conduct test flights.
At this point, my DAR wisely withdrew from this issue and sent me directly
to the FSDO. I immediately called and spoke with a polite gentleman who
told me that, yes, both the surrounding area and airspace are too busy to
allow experimental aircraft to perform test flights. After the initial
shock, I calmly asked if he could suggest another airport in my area where
such flights could be approved. He went on to explain that due to their
interpretation of a new FAA rule (or guideline, or whatever) there were no
airports in eastern Massachusetts (their jurisdiction) where I could fly.
I then asked for recommendations for ANY airport that would be appropriate.
He sincerely suggested Nevada or Montana - places with lots of open space.
I then asked how do I get my plane to such a place. With great sympathy,
he told me I would have to truck ti since I could not fly it from the field
at which it was assembled.
I politely explained that my aircraft is an RV-4, and that once assembled,
is not well suited to disassembly. He said that he had never heard of an
"RV-4", but suggested that perhaps I could truck it with the wings still
attached since it is so small. At about this point, I realized I was not
going to change this gentleman's mind, so I asked to speak with his
supervisor. Prior to transferring me, he told me that these stringent
policies are necessary because "fifty percent of all experimental aircraft
end in failure". I defended Van's RVs and told him that this was the most
popular series of homebuilts and had a fabulous safety record. He said he
didn't want to argue statistics with me and held his ground.
His supervisor was more sympathetic, but no more optimistic. At this
point, I called the EAA, begging for assistance. One of the EAA guys
called the Bedford FSDO and "negotiated" that I be allowed to fly out of
Hanscom to some other airport willing to receive me, and not return until
after my test flight hours have been completed. I gleefully thanked the
EAA and called my friends at the Bedford FSDO. They agreed that they were
willing to work for me, but their approval would be contingent upon
satisfying several other groups.
I had to get approval from the Hanscom Tower that I could perform my
initial (departure) flight without inconveniencing or interrupting their
normal traffic. I had to get the blessing from Massport - the state agency
that controls and operates the airport grounds- to conduct taxi testing. I
had to find another airport willing to accept me for the test flight hours.
I chose Nashua, NH because it has a good history of working with
experimental aircraft and is only a 40 minute drive from my house. For
better or for worse, Nashua is outside the Bedford FSDO, so I had to obtain
approval from the Portland, Maine FSDO as Nashua is within their
jurisdiction. And of course, I had to get approval from the Nashua Tower.
I was only slightly surprised to learn that the Nashua Airport manager had
to approve my plans as well.
After countless phone calls, I got all these parties to agree in principal
to my request. I quickly drafted a "brief" 3 page proposal, complete with
a photocopied sectional, and sent out a package to each of the parties
mentioned above, and my DAR, of course.
Today, I was finally able to schedule my inspection with the DAR. Oh, by
the way, for whatever reason, the DAR is not permitted to inspect the
aircraft until the airspace request has been approved.
Dean Pichon
RV-4
All ready and no where to fly
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Tapar" <muskrat(at)rovermail.com> |
My name is Paul Tapar. I live in Bolingbrook, Illinois and currently fly out of
Lewis University. I own a Skyhawk and have been researching kits since 1988.
I have decided that the perfect kit for me is an RV-8.
Well, I purchased my tool kit from Avery Sunday at Oshkosh. I'm signed up for the
August 17-19 construction class at Oshkosh. I plan on practicing my riveting
until I get it right, then I will order the empennage kit. Like
several builders before me I will use that experience to
determine if I go with the quick build version.
I have stopped by chapter 15's shop at the airport several times and have not yet
met the guys who have RV's on the field. I know I will love building and flying
the 8, but I have yet to experience an RV in flight. I am interested in finding
out what the RV Grin is all about. The last two
years at Oshkosh I was next up for a demo when the pilots decided to stop because
of too much traffic on the ground. This must be a sign that I am not to build
one or that it is going to be a leap of faith. I'll choose the faith.
Any help you can provide would be most welcome. I would certainly be willing to
trade some elbow grease to help clean the RV or at least pay for the fuel.
Thank you,
Paul
N4ME Reserved
SignUP for your FREE rovermail account at http://www.suttertel.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LRI was Oshkosh RV Awards |
> All readers, we are not hiding who we are. The price is $450...
All of which has nothing to do with the above subject line. Come on,
posters. If you post something in reply to a previous post with a different
subject, CHANGE the subject line. Otherwise you may not get the readers you
want because they are not interested in the original subject, even though it
is now changed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lancair accidents |
Now, if you loose an
> engine dragging
> it in on a 5 mile final, I don't think knowing the
> wiring diagram
> backwards is going to matter at all.
>
My point exactly. The point is, if you lose an
engine, it could very well be the owner's lack of
experience with building and maintenance. If he built
and maintained his airplane, that engine might not
have failed.
====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
First Flight 7/22/01
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of FAA paperwork |
Amazing! Once you get everything approved I would seriously consider making
your first flight outside the normal tower operation hours and staying near
the airport to make sure all is well before leaving the area. Do not
archive.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 finishing wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | LRI was Oshkosh RV Awards |
Thread-Topic: RV-List: LRI was Oshkosh RV Awards
Thread-Index: AcEaunULyqhjlqVnQ3KN6b9ehwojqwAAF+Vw
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
About a year and a half ago this subject was beat to death on this list
and a few guys left because of getting flamed. So, for the record, no
flames intended to those marketing these devices; if I'm wrong about
what I'm about to say than please correct me. The conclusion that that
I came to from that thread was these devices are not accurate above 1G
and that flap position would also affect accuracy. So, my question to
you guys who are contemplating spending several hundred dollars on one
of these units, is why buy it if in reality it gives you no more
information than your airspeed does? I can say in my experience over
the past year flying my RV at least 3 hours a week that even if I had
one of these devices installed I probably wouldn't pay too much
attention to it. Once you get a feel for your RV you will become very
perceptive to what the airplane is doing. I can get in and out of a 900
foot strip stress-free. I can trim the airplane for 75mph without
looking at airspeed, while looking out for my buddies who are landing
ahead of me and at the same time avoiding birds and jockeying the
throttle to get it in on the numbers. What I'm saying is that once you
get comfortable flying your RV then you really don't need one of these
aoa devices unless you need another gadget in the cockpit. I sure as
heck don't feel that an aoa indicator improves safety at low airspeeds
as a good set of brains, eyeballs, and a pair of hands and feet all
working in unison making music with that beautiful instrument of pure
joy strapped to your behind does. Folks, we're not flying Tomcats onto
a moving aircraft carrier at the minimum flying speed.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duberstein, Allen" <allen.duberstein(at)intel.com> |
| Subject: | Annual Conditional Inspections |
I agree with what has been stated...also, changing ownership does not have
any direct affect on annual dates. The annual is for that airplane and who
owns it is not a factor.
If you were going to buy a plane it would be a good idea to get it fully
inspected (an annual in effect) and have the log books signed. Otherwise
you'd be doing it all over again at the original annual date.
allen
Allen Duberstein
allen.duberstein(at)intel.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley(at)qcbc.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Annual Conditional Inspections
One can extend the annual to cover 13 months by signing off on the 1st of
the month as it is good for 12 full month from the date it was signed. The
annual month then moves back one month each year. You may or may not want
to do it that way but if you are a paying, it cuts your costs some what.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
From: "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 1:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Annual Conditional Inspections
Annual date changes if you do another annual. Otherwise October it is.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cole, Ed
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:35 AM
Subject: RV-List: Annual Conditional Inspections
Here is a question for you F.A.R. experts.
On a purchased aircraft, is the annual due 12 months after you purchase the
aircraft
or are you required to keep the same schedule as the previous owner?
Example;
Annuals done in October by previous owner.
Aircraft purchased in February of the following year.
Ed Cole
RV6A N2169D Flying
RV6A N648RV Finishing
Maxim Home Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com
Products Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/MaximProducts/products.htm
New Products:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/new_products.cfm
Datasheets:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/l_datasheet3.cfm
The information contained in this message is confidential
and may be legally privileged. The message is intended
solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Starting wings |
great post Eric
the only thing i could add to that is:
build the bellcrank assembly before installing its mounting angles. that way
you can put the bearing, spacers, washers, bolt, and nut and get an accurate
measurement of the width of the assembly. then space your support angles with
at least 1/8 inch on both sides. if you use Van's dimensions, your nut will
barely clear the support brackets.
the other thing i could recommend:
back rivit the top skin first.
scott
tampa
rv6a looking for a place to paint
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Coastal Georgia Fly In |
Welcome home from Oskosh!
I am resending this message for the benefit of those who may have been "off"
the list during Oshkosh.
> Greetings;
>
> Mark your calendars now for Saturday Sept. 15. for the Coastal Georgia
Fall
> Fly In.
>
> The fly in will be held at Eagle Neck Airpark, a pristine community
located
> on the coast of Georgia half way between Savannah and St. Simons Island.
>
> There are 2 RV8's, 1 RV 6, and 1 RV 4 nearing completion, as well as a
> completed RV4 all based on the airport.
>
> Savannah or St. Simons would make a great get-a-way for an extended
weekend
> mini vacation.
>
> Email or call for our informational flyer and airport information.
>
> Dick & Vicki Sipp
> 912 756-5588
> rsipp(at)earthlink.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "??n ????r" <kevinschlosser(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F683 fuel selector valve support |
I'd like to see someone EGRESS TO and from an RV :-)
Now Jim's someone's daisy!
Kevin
-< PropellerHead >-
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Jewell
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 4:01 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: F683 fuel selector valve support
Hi Tom,
[SNIP]
*Some builders lower the valve support about 2 to 3 inches so that the valve
has less chance of being in the way of egress to and from the aircraft.
Jim - in Kelowna
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of FAA paperwork |
--- pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com wrote:
>
> I feel the need to share my experiences with the FAA and the
> inspection process...
This is really a discouraging story for Sport Aviation!
I'm glad you got it worked out - to the degree you have. Now there
only remains hangar facilities at the new airport, and I bet you're
already in one at the airport from which you may not fly.
Must be maddening!
Is this a new FAA deal or just one which your FSDO is enforcing to the
letter? I have to wonder who and how the decision is made that an area
is "too" populated and "too" dense.
Makes me glad to live here.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of FAA paperwork |
Mike
Didn't you mean to say that the area is too populated and the (FAA)
population is to dense?
Charlie Kuss
>
>
> Is this a new FAA deal or just one which your FSDO is enforcing to the
> letter? I have to wonder who and how the decision is made that an area
> is "too" populated and "too" dense.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LRI was Oshkosh RV Awards |
Bob,
I must say I have been struggling with this very question for a little bit
now. The thing that looks like it's putting me over the fence and into
buying one ( http://www.angle-of-attack.com/Default.htm ) is Density
altitude. Yes, with a bit of time in your plane you can get a real good
feel for how fast you're going based on noise, vibrations etc etc....but
leave florida and go to Denver and that is a different story. I'm just
thinking it might be a good idea to have something around for the time when
I'm not quite paying enough attention or things have changed outside the
aircraft and the 'normal' envelope isn't there anymore. But, I'm still on
the fence, so I could be wrong. :-)
Bill
wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 3:29 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: LRI was Oshkosh RV Awards
>
> About a year and a half ago this subject was beat to death on this list
> and a few guys left because of getting flamed. So, for the record, no
> flames intended to those marketing these devices; if I'm wrong about
> what I'm about to say than please correct me. The conclusion that that
> I came to from that thread was these devices are not accurate above 1G
> and that flap position would also affect accuracy. So, my question to
> you guys who are contemplating spending several hundred dollars on one
> of these units, is why buy it if in reality it gives you no more
> information than your airspeed does? I can say in my experience over
> the past year flying my RV at least 3 hours a week that even if I had
> one of these devices installed I probably wouldn't pay too much
> attention to it. Once you get a feel for your RV you will become very
> perceptive to what the airplane is doing. I can get in and out of a 900
> foot strip stress-free. I can trim the airplane for 75mph without
> looking at airspeed, while looking out for my buddies who are landing
> ahead of me and at the same time avoiding birds and jockeying the
> throttle to get it in on the numbers. What I'm saying is that once you
> get comfortable flying your RV then you really don't need one of these
> aoa devices unless you need another gadget in the cockpit. I sure as
> heck don't feel that an aoa indicator improves safety at low airspeeds
> as a good set of brains, eyeballs, and a pair of hands and feet all
> working in unison making music with that beautiful instrument of pure
> joy strapped to your behind does. Folks, we're not flying Tomcats onto
> a moving aircraft carrier at the minimum flying speed.
>
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
Are Barstad asked for LRI user comments. I have had one installed in my RV6A
for a couple of year now. I relay on it all the time. I think it is the best
safety devise you can get. I use it on every take off and every landing.
If I ever have to put the aircraft down into some small spot it will likely
save my behind. The thing about the LRI that isn't given enough emphasis, it
seems to me, is that it tell you HOW FAR AWAY FROM STALL you are, not that
you are about to do it.
Its worth whatever they are asking for ... I wouldn't fly without one if I
had a choice.
FWIW John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
> The conclusion that that
> I came to from that thread was these devices are not accurate above 1G
> and that flap position would also affect accuracy. So, my question to
> you guys who are contemplating spending several hundred dollars on one
> of these units, is why buy it if in reality it gives you no more
> information than your airspeed does? I can say in my experience over
> the past year flying my RV at least 3 hours a week that even if I had
> one of these devices installed I probably wouldn't pay too much
> attention to it. Once you get a feel for your RV you will become very
> perceptive to what the airplane is doing
Bingo. It seems like one more device that keeps your head inside the cockpit
when it should be outside watching/feeling what is going on. What is wrong
with seat-of-the-pants flying? If these were aircraft that were hard to fly
or had quirky stall characteristics or other bad slow-flight behavior, LRI
might.....might....be worth having. IMHO.
Heads UP, out there.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
Paul wrote:
The last two years at Oshkosh I was next up for a demo when the pilots decided
to stop because of too much traffic on the ground. This must be a sign that I
am not to build one or that it is going to be a leap of faith. I'll choose the
faith.
Hi Paul,
Welcome to the group. You're doing all the right stuff in getting ready. My first
suggestion would be to go ahead and order your tail kit. You'll be continually
be learning and if you wait until you know everything, you'll never get
started.
The second is to get your tail kit now (I know, that was the first suggestion too)
even if you don't get a ride. I worked for 2 years on my RV-6 before I got
a ride. I wasn't disappointed. I'm sure you won't be either.
I was HEEEEALED (my best preacher impersonation) by the faith of RV's.
Laird RV-6 310 hrs in 13 months
SoCal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Starting Wings/building procedure/steps/order/ |
for the archives...excellent post, Eric.
Paul
John,
>
> Heres some thoughts in totally random order that I
> now know from building
> mine 4 years ago.
>
> The wings are very straight forward. Are your spars
> prepunched like the
> -8. I'm thinking not, if so the big gocha is two
> inboard nutplates that
> are installed behind the spar. You damn near hit the
> spar drilling the tank
> holes. Be carefull. Other than that let the
> prepunched skins be your guide
> as to where to put your ribs. Get a piece of 3/8th
> brake line (steel) and
> use that to drill the ribs through the spar. The
> inner diameter is #30,
> this will allow you to not touch the spar. The only
> drawback about putting
> the wings together in the jig are the tendency to
> back into the clecoes on
> the other wing. Gives you a smiley. You will do
> this, I had 3 feet between
> the wings. Put the top skins out.
>
> Backrivet the top skins on first. Just follow Frank
> Justices instructions.
> Put skins on in this order: Top main, bottom main,
> leading edge, tank. This
> will give you perfect skin lines.
>
> When the leading edge is riveted, go back in and tap
> the rivets from the
> inside with a bucking bar, this will pop them out
> flush. Sounds scarry, its
> a no brainer acrually. Cant hurt it unless you miss
> the rivet.
>
> Backrivet the top skins on first
>
> Watch the trailing edge top flange of the rear spar,
> 5 years ago it needed
> to be bent down to continue the perfect skin line.
> Don't put the three
> inboard wingwalk ribs in until the very last thing.
>
> Trash Vans Pitot, call Warren Gretz
>
> Run smooth conduit water pipe from home depot in
> your ribs for wiring. Put
> the conduit against the skin you will rivet on
> first. If not, its in the
> way when you close your wings.
>
> Back rivet the top skins on first
>
> Use a 4' ruller to align your control surfaces. It
> makes em perfect. Clamp
> the ruler to the outboard edge of the top skin and
> to the outboard edge of
> the aileron top skin. Tape the inboard one to the
> top skin.
>
> Split your flap hinges in two and cut out three
> teeth (two on flap, one on
> wing), insert the hinge pin from the center
>
> Back rivet the top skins on first
>
> Run a seperate set of holes for the pitot tube
> plumging
>
> You can mount a pitot tube on the bottom inspection
> panel if you want it
> easily accessable, use an .063 piece of skin.
>
> Your bottom skin that holds the flap will have a
> funky bend in it near the
> inboard end. The flap spar does not match the rear
> spar of the wing.
>
> Don't waste your money on tank dimple dies. Push the
> rivet into the goo,
> squeegee it off and drive it.
>
> Drill several big ventillation holes in the bottom
> of your tank skin (just
> kidding, you still awake)
>
> Dimple .032 skins with the c-frame on a concrete
> floor
>
> Don't forget to leave room for paint around your
> tank skin if you plan to
> have it removable without trashing your paint.
>
> Think about the possibility of ever putting in flop
> tubes before you set
> the rivet pattern for the tank to fuselage attatch
> mount.
>
> Don't cut the inboard bottom flap skins until you
> mount em to the fuse.
>
> Do Not store your completed wings leading edge down,
> the lift coeficient
> tends to pool in the leading edges and makes the
> plane hard to trim in
> pitch.
>
> Don't forget to backrivet the top skins first
>
> Hope it helps
>
> Eric Henson
>
>
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer(at)mb.sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Reduced TBO with high compression pistons |
This is exactly what I was thinking. I too plan to install the high
compression cylinders and figured I would never actually see 160 HP with a
fixed pitch prop. The only potential problems I can think of would be:
1) Detonation. Obviously it would be unwise to run the engine on 80/87
avgas, as I might have with the O-320E2D configuration. But then I can only
get 100 LL locally anyway.
2) Peak bearing pressure. I think the primary difference between the 150 and
160 HP versions of the O-320 is the surface area of the front bearing., the
150 HP version having a smaller bearing. At <2700 RPM, it is true you won't
be making the full 160 hp. That is because horsepower is a function of RPM
and torque. Torque on the other hand is a function of peak cylinder
pressure, area of the piston, the moment arm of the crankshaft, inertia of
the whole moving crank/prop/piston/etc assembly, among other things beyond
my knowledge base. My point is that the hammering impact on the bearings at
2300RPM/full throttle on takeoff& climb may be equivalent to an engine
running at 160 HP at full RPM. Maybe even worse since you are lugging the
engine somewhat with a fixed pitch prop. Perhaps a true engine expert can
enlighten us on this one. I know Lycoming doesn't recommend converting the
high compression upgrade, but then they have lots of other reasons not to,
like litigation,etc.
As a note of interest, there was a high-compression version of the Mercedes
6 cylinder engine of WWI vintage that absolutely could not be operated at
full throttle at low altitude due to detonation. It was designed
specifically to accept full throttle and produce full power only at high
altitude.
Curt
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Allen" <fliier(at)onebox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:25 AM
Subject: RV-List: Reduced TBO with high compression pistons
>
> I put the high compression pistons in the O-320E2D in my RV-6A. I wont
> disagree with the fellow who stated that I might expect a lower actual
> TBO as a result. It certainly isnt going to help the TBO.
>
> I have a question, though, which perhaps someone on the list can answer.
> When do I get that extra horsepower?
>
> Sitting on the ramp with full throttle Im pulling 2150 RPM with the
> fixed pitch Sensenich. Im certainly not getting 160HP there. On climb
> out Im turning 2300 RPM. Certainly Im not getting 160 HP then. In
> cruise Im turning <2600 due to the Prop restriction on my engine.
Apparently
> Im not getting 160HP there either.
>
> Somewhere in my mind Im thinking that every part of my engine is rated
> for at least 150 HP and thats probably the most Im getting. The high
> compression pistons are merely making my engine/prop combination less
> INefficient than normal, but never do they allow me to exceed the rated
> horsepower. Unfortunately I didnt have the foresight to install a MP
> gauge so I dont have a reliable means of measuring power.
>
> Perhaps this discussion of reduced TBO is only for the rich folks with
> constant speed props.
>
> --
> John "failed physics in college" Allen
> RV-6A flying
>
>
> Sign Up Now! http://www.onebox.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LRI (Real Reasons) |
This isn't about another device to keep your head
inside the cockpit. It should REPLACE your airspeed
indicator. It gives you much more than what your
airpseed does. Your stall speed and lift
characteristics changes for different conditions.
Density altitude, weight and balance, etc. All of
these factors can greatly change your aircraft's lift
and stall characteristics. The LRI does not care what
these variable are. It will always show the accurate
reading relative to lift. Your airspeed indicator is
archaic compared to an LRI. Yes, your airspeed is
generally accurate, but what if you were close to aft
CG when you took off with full tanks? You burn fuel
and your CG moves further aft, and next thing you know
your stall speed has increased. You fly your normal
approach, 90, 80, 70, etc. You are busy thinking
about your landing, your trip to the hotel, the beach,
excited to show off your RV, etc. You glance at your
airspeed indicator like you always do, but your CG has
changed. Uh oh..you are 10 feet above the runway and
you stall...boing, boing, boing. Dead? Maybe not.
Bent firewall? who knows. If you make it a point to
glance at your LRI INSTEAD of your airpseed, you will
NEVER have that problem, no matter the conditions.
Also, contrary to popular belief, flap position has no
effect on it's accuracy. Now, if you could forget
about your $150 airspeed indicator, spend an extra
$300 on an LRI, you would have everything an airspeed
indicator and much more for $300.
Flame away.
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
No LRI, but wish I had one
why buy it if in reality it
> gives you no more
> > information than your airspeed does?
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Schlosser" <kevinschlosser(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | My new air compressor |
I was hoping to verify with you folks that my new air
compressor will do the trick when it comes to building
my RV soon.
I actually bought it for something else, but RV's (as
always) were in the back of my mind.
The Old Compressor
==============
I'm standing there on my deck with a new HVLP gun
trying to spray semi-transparent stain with the worlds
oldest air compressor. It was my father's before he
went out and bought a sears compressor. It's a single
cylinder oil-less with a washing machine motor pulley
v-belt drive, mounted on a big oval LEAD plate. Geez
it was heavy.
It was getting hot after 1 hour of running continuous
with a modified Grizzly Machinery 11 gallon tank and
regulator. I had to stop at the end of every other
pass with the gun to build up air reserves. At that
rate, it would take me 2 weeks to do the deck.
That's it, I need a new compressor!
The New Compressor
===============
My wife and I went to Home Depot and Lowes to see
what they had and how much it cost. No time for
mail order, it's this or nothing. I tried to order a 65
gallon by 11hp upright model and they were out. The
wife grinned since she thought I was going overkill again.
The other choice was the Porter Cable 7 Hp by 25 Gal
horizontal Cast iron dual piston oiled model. We shoved
it in the one hour rental truck and took it home. We
finished the deck that weekend.
The best quote heard from my wife, who up until recently
had problems with the idea of me building a plane... "Will
you be able to use that on your airplane???"
I nearly fell over. I guess she realizes I'm going to build
this thing approval or not. Cool.
So, 7 HP x 25 Gal Oiled, Will that do it?
Kevin Schlosser
-=< PropellerHead >=-
Waiting for April to buy RV-7 Tail Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
I guess, I would install one for the same reason stall warnings are
installed in spamcans.
Yeah, you might be the exeption here and *never* get distracted, I know
that it could happen to me (has happened to me) and some kind of warning
system would be darn nice to save my bacon that one time, be it a fancy
dandy lightbar doohicky which yelps "pull up !!" through the audio
system or a simple vane system/buzzer a la cessna et all.
Guess, if some of those GlassThingies discussed in some other thread
here had some kind on stall warning they would still be flying or at
least not caught off guard as much...... but hey, that is my opinion and
not intended as a flame to anybody !! In the end everybody can decide
for themselves what THEIR bacon is worth to them.
I do however agree that flying with your head in the cockpit is a BAAAD
idea and that mounting all kinds of anunciators where you have to
drastically move your head is a bad implementation of a good idea.
By the way, I saw that Van's demo rv6 had their angle of attack
indicator mounted on top of the glare shield rather than in the panel
somewhere.
Gert
KostaLewis wrote:
>
>
> > The conclusion that that
> > I came to from that thread was these devices are not accurate above 1G
> > and that flap position would also affect accuracy. So, my question to
> > you guys who are contemplating spending several hundred dollars on one
> > of these units, is why buy it if in reality it gives you no more
> > information than your airspeed does? I can say in my experience over
> > the past year flying my RV at least 3 hours a week that even if I had
> > one of these devices installed I probably wouldn't pay too much
> > attention to it. Once you get a feel for your RV you will become very
> > perceptive to what the airplane is doing
>
> Bingo. It seems like one more device that keeps your head inside the cockpit
> when it should be outside watching/feeling what is going on. What is wrong
> with seat-of-the-pants flying? If these were aircraft that were hard to fly
> or had quirky stall characteristics or other bad slow-flight behavior, LRI
> might.....might....be worth having. IMHO.
>
> Heads UP, out there.
>
> Michael
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of FAA paperwork |
Dean, your experiences with Massport mimic my experiences with all of MA
government agencies for the seven years I lived there.
It's unbelievable. Hopefully you can get some hanger space at Nashua so
your new bird doesn't have to sit outside.
I learned to fly at North Central (SFZ) and that might have been a good
airport to go to as well.
Good luck.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
> I feel the need to share my experiences with the FAA and the inspection
> process...
>
> About 4 weeks ago I submitted paperwork to a local DAR I had lined up to
> inspect my aircraft. Among other things, he asked that I send him a
letter
> requesting a test flight area. He suggested I include a photocopied
> sectional with the proposed area indicated. He explained to me that the
> FAA recently took back control over test flight area approvals and that
the
> DARs were only middle-men for this portion of the process. My DAR
> forwarded my request to the local FSDO (Bedford, MA). The FAA promptly
got
> back to him and said that my home airfield (Hanscom Field, Bedford, MA) is
> too busy and surrounded by too many people to safely conduct test flights.
>
> At this point, my DAR wisely withdrew from this issue and sent me directly
> to the FSDO. I immediately called and spoke with a polite gentleman who
> told me that, yes, both the surrounding area and airspace are too busy to
> allow experimental aircraft to perform test flights. After the initial
> shock, I calmly asked if he could suggest another airport in my area where
> such flights could be approved. He went on to explain that due to their
> interpretation of a new FAA rule (or guideline, or whatever) there were no
> airports in eastern Massachusetts (their jurisdiction) where I could fly.
> I then asked for recommendations for ANY airport that would be
appropriate.
> He sincerely suggested Nevada or Montana - places with lots of open space.
> I then asked how do I get my plane to such a place. With great sympathy,
> he told me I would have to truck ti since I could not fly it from the
field
> at which it was assembled.
>
> I politely explained that my aircraft is an RV-4, and that once assembled,
> is not well suited to disassembly. He said that he had never heard of an
> "RV-4", but suggested that perhaps I could truck it with the wings still
> attached since it is so small. At about this point, I realized I was not
> going to change this gentleman's mind, so I asked to speak with his
> supervisor. Prior to transferring me, he told me that these stringent
> policies are necessary because "fifty percent of all experimental aircraft
> end in failure". I defended Van's RVs and told him that this was the most
> popular series of homebuilts and had a fabulous safety record. He said he
> didn't want to argue statistics with me and held his ground.
>
> His supervisor was more sympathetic, but no more optimistic. At this
> point, I called the EAA, begging for assistance. One of the EAA guys
> called the Bedford FSDO and "negotiated" that I be allowed to fly out of
> Hanscom to some other airport willing to receive me, and not return until
> after my test flight hours have been completed. I gleefully thanked the
> EAA and called my friends at the Bedford FSDO. They agreed that they were
> willing to work for me, but their approval would be contingent upon
> satisfying several other groups.
>
> I had to get approval from the Hanscom Tower that I could perform my
> initial (departure) flight without inconveniencing or interrupting their
> normal traffic. I had to get the blessing from Massport - the state
agency
> that controls and operates the airport grounds- to conduct taxi testing.
I
> had to find another airport willing to accept me for the test flight
hours.
> I chose Nashua, NH because it has a good history of working with
> experimental aircraft and is only a 40 minute drive from my house. For
> better or for worse, Nashua is outside the Bedford FSDO, so I had to
obtain
> approval from the Portland, Maine FSDO as Nashua is within their
> jurisdiction. And of course, I had to get approval from the Nashua Tower.
> I was only slightly surprised to learn that the Nashua Airport manager had
> to approve my plans as well.
>
> After countless phone calls, I got all these parties to agree in principal
> to my request. I quickly drafted a "brief" 3 page proposal, complete with
> a photocopied sectional, and sent out a package to each of the parties
> mentioned above, and my DAR, of course.
>
> Today, I was finally able to schedule my inspection with the DAR. Oh, by
> the way, for whatever reason, the DAR is not permitted to inspect the
> aircraft until the airspace request has been approved.
>
> Dean Pichon
> RV-4
> All ready and no where to fly
> **** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of
> Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain
> confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee
> only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not
> the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible.****
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LRI (Real Reasons) |
http://www.monmouth.com/~jsd/how/htm/aoa.html
Paul Besing wrote:
>
>
> This isn't about another device to keep your head
> inside the cockpit. It should REPLACE your airspeed
> indicator. It gives you much more than what your
> airpseed does. Your stall speed and lift
> characteristics changes for different conditions.
> Density altitude, weight and balance, etc. All of
> these factors can greatly change your aircraft's lift
> and stall characteristics. The LRI does not care what
> these variable are. It will always show the accurate
> reading relative to lift. Your airspeed indicator is
> archaic compared to an LRI. Yes, your airspeed is
> generally accurate, but what if you were close to aft
> CG when you took off with full tanks? You burn fuel
> and your CG moves further aft, and next thing you know
> your stall speed has increased. You fly your normal
> approach, 90, 80, 70, etc. You are busy thinking
> about your landing, your trip to the hotel, the beach,
> excited to show off your RV, etc. You glance at your
> airspeed indicator like you always do, but your CG has
> changed. Uh oh..you are 10 feet above the runway and
> you stall...boing, boing, boing. Dead? Maybe not.
> Bent firewall? who knows. If you make it a point to
> glance at your LRI INSTEAD of your airpseed, you will
> NEVER have that problem, no matter the conditions.
>
> Also, contrary to popular belief, flap position has no
> effect on it's accuracy. Now, if you could forget
> about your $150 airspeed indicator, spend an extra
> $300 on an LRI, you would have everything an airspeed
> indicator and much more for $300.
>
> Flame away.
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A 197AB Arizona
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> No LRI, but wish I had one
>
> why buy it if in reality it
> > gives you no more
> > > information than your airspeed does?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
Yup,
I'm using a 6.5hp unit - same size tank...I've done priming (no flames
please), riveting, drilling, grinding, and all kinds of other stuff. Worst
trouble I had was when I was using a jitterbug sander, the compressor would
run almost (!) constantly - but it kept up...oiled means it'll be quieter!!!
Trick is with the math...read somewhere that you can't really generate more
than about 5hp on 110VAC so hopefully yours is a 220V unit.
Ralph Capen
Just rebuilt an old compressor for the hangar I'm working in...all it takes
is the right tools and the right parts!
<>
So, 7 HP x 25 Gal Oiled, Will that do it?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | ...and the winner is |
The winner of the Builder's Bookstore / Micro Aerodynamics VG giveaway is:
BOYD BRAEM of Osprey, Florida
Boyd wins a set of Vortice Generators suitable for his RV, or any other
homebuilt aircraft.
Congratulations Boyd. I'll be contacting you shortly and letting you know how
to claim your prize.
For everyone else, if you want a set of VGs for your RV you'll have to contact
Charles White at Micro Aerodynamics. He can be reached at
360 293-5499. Or you can look over their web site at http://www.microaero.com
I'm finally ready to install my VG set on my -6A. I wanted to straighten a
warped wing tip first. I finished that over the weekend. (It was a lot easier
than I thought) I was going to test fly today with the straight wing and get
some accurate pre-VG performance numbers, but our Colorado all day thunder
showers said no. So, that's put off till Saturday. Then hopefully, I'll get
the VGs installed on Saturday afternoon and repeat the testing on Sunday
morning. I'll report back with those numbers then.
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jessen <jjessen(at)cmbinfo.com> |
| Subject: | Speaking of FAA paperwork |
Folks:
I live next to and fly out of Hanscom (BED) and can appreciate the FSDO not
wanting an experimental flying off time out of there. It's extremely busy,
there are too many homes, freeways, etc, etc. However, Dean's tale has
discouraged me greatly, even though I expected not to be able to use BED.
It has discouraged me because of the attitude of the FSDO. Fortunately I
now know what to expect. Even discouraged about that part of the system, it
won't keep me from building. Lesson: the fly off is part of the building
process and we should not take any part of the building process for granted.
We all should become very cognizant of how the building will end and the
flying be allowed to begin, even though it may be 2 or more years away.
Thanks, Dean.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Thompson [mailto:grobdriver(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Speaking of FAA paperwork
--- pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com wrote:
>
> I feel the need to share my experiences with the FAA and the
> inspection process...
This is really a discouraging story for Sport Aviation!
I'm glad you got it worked out - to the degree you have. Now there
only remains hangar facilities at the new airport, and I bet you're
already in one at the airport from which you may not fly.
Must be maddening!
Is this a new FAA deal or just one which your FSDO is enforcing to the
letter? I have to wonder who and how the decision is made that an area
is "too" populated and "too" dense.
Makes me glad to live here.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Annual Conditional Inspections |
Ed,
The Yearly condition inspection stays on its original schedule, one year to
the month from the last time it was done and recorded in the logbook.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
RV-8A
>From: "Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'rv-list(at)matronics.com'"
>Subject: RV-List: Annual Conditional Inspections
>Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:34:35 -0700
>
>
>Here is a question for you F.A.R. experts.
>
>On a purchased aircraft, is the annual due 12 months after you purchase the
>aircraft
>or are you required to keep the same schedule as the previous owner?
>Example;
>Annuals done in October by previous owner.
>Aircraft purchased in February of the following year.
>
>Ed Cole
>RV6A N2169D Flying
>RV6A N648RV Finishing
>
>Maxim Home Page:
>http://www.maxim-ic.com
>Products Page:
>http://www.maxim-ic.com/MaximProducts/products.htm
>New Products:
>http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/new_products.cfm
>Datasheets:
>http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/l_datasheet3.cfm
>The information contained in this message is confidential
>and may be legally privileged. The message is intended
>solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended
>recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
>or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
>If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
>by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Good <chrisjgood(at)yahoo.com> |
Looks like their web site is back up now.
>
>Does anyone know what is going on at Navaid Devices? They do not have
>their booth at Oshkosh this year, and when I checked their website just
>now, the site is no longer there.
>
>Jeff Point
>Milwaukee WI
>
>
Regards,
Chris Good, http://www.rv.supermatrix.com
West Bend, WI
RV-6A N86CG, 245 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid & Speaking of FAA Paperwork |
I e-mailed NavAid and they responded that their web site would be back up
soon...they're still going
Now, as to FAA paperwork:
I have wanted to get my operating limitations changed to the latest version
that allows major changes with a log entry, five hours of trouble free
flying, and another specific log entry. The FSDO at Denver says they
can't/won't help, and to get a DAR. I talked to a DAR in Boulder, who never
called me back after promising to do so (He also wanted to make a complete
inspection of the aircraft - along with an inspection fee I guess) A DAR in
Pueble won't return my calls.
What a way to run a ship!!!!
John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Tail kit for sale |
I have decided not to build "my" RV-8 in the near term, so my tail kit is
for sale. It has the electric trim option as well as the provision for a
rudder tail light. Kit is untouched, still in boxes. Purchased September
of 2000. Located in Pittsburgh, PA. Contact me off -list if interested.
Tim
e-mail: IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Panther Electronics |
Hi Folks, especially Floridians,
Have any of you ever heard of or dealt with Panther Electronics of St.
Cloud, FL? I checked the archives and found no posts, and they are not
listed in the Yeller Pages. They make a headset whose mirophone is
embedded in an earpiece, eliminating a traditional boom mike. Looks
interesting, though it's a bit pricey. Their web site is
www.pantherelectronics.com. They feature a guy who uses this headset in a
Long EZ (yeah, I know) on their site. Anyone know anything about them? I
have e-mailed them and not received any replies.
Thanks,
Tim
Pittsburgh
Future builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Centering the Ball at Cruise A/S |
| From: | Gary Graham <beeb(at)teleport.com> |
Pugsley Engineering (my dog's Co.) has been playing with methods of
centering the ball on my RV-4FB. Here are some of the methods:
1. Tabs; The popular wedge tab and the trailing edge bendable metal tab.
These satisfy most builders right up to the point that the opposing
aerodynamic forces on the rudder balance the effective pressures generated
by the tab. A bigger tab is tried and resulting diminishing returns are
noted. The main reason for this is the fact that tab becomes blanked out by
the vertical stabilizer as the rudder is displaced.
2. Offset of the vertical stabilizer; This is tougher to quantify given
the vertical stabilizer size differences in the RV family of designs, the
angle of incidence, the engine/prop combination and the resulting thrust
angle of the engine as mounted/sagged over time. All stabs are not the same
in terms of how they were built and mounted. Based on antidotal data that I
collected down through the years, I off set my vert. stab. 3/16" at the
front spar (1/4" at the leading edge) with positive results. Many builders
have reported diminishing returns beyond this point.
3. Camber change; Some aircraft use different airfoil shapes on the left
vs. the right side not unlike that of the horizontal stabilizer (less
extreme). This of course would result in a collection of vertical tail fins
you could trade with friends on the list.
4. Dorsal Fins; I mention this not so much as a ball mover, but as a way
that a few builders have increased yaw stability (remember the evolution of
the C-150 slant tail, the dorsal fins got bigger each year).
5. Gear leg fairings; By far one of the best ways to effect yaw is the
gear leg fairing (that's why we put them on, right?) Often the reason we
need to move the ball is to compensate for the gear leg fairings interplay
with relative wind and prop swirl. Those who have flown with them on and
off can comment on this. Best do all testing with then off (except RV-8).
Once you have the ball where you wan it, then put them on and flight test
them. Adjust them until the ball is back in the center.
6. Ailerons; An aileron that is not mounted correctly can and will add to
yaw and a wing heavy/light condition. In most cases, look for the leading
edge of one aileron to be below the wing bottom at flight level position.
This can be a subtle difference that is not easy to see. A slightly twisted
aileron or one with a slight drupe to the nose is difficult to average out.
If you find this and are lucky, you might cure two problems with one
adjustment. Don't forget flap asymmetry and wing twist. Once you have the
plane flying wings level (neutral load) is when you do serious ball
centering.
7. Vortex generators on the vertical stabilizer; This is the latest mod
effort of Pugsley's engineering team. Many folks ask me about these at
Arlington. I am happy to report that it has been a productive effort. It
has taken many trial runs, but once I got close to the sweet spot, the ball
moved right between the lines. I started with a small wedge as an aiming
point on the rudder about half way down. Three VGs moved the ball out the
left side (started with 1/2 to 2/3 ball out to right) Two VGs and it is
centered. They are presently located just above the tail fairing, roughly
over the forward spar. The current VGs are rather large (1/2" X 2" and 4"
spacing). They are approximately 15* nose up to the relative wind. My goal
is more than making a tab/wedge work better. I would like to make the
vertical tail have more lift to the left without the tab (remember that I
also off set the tail 3/16 ). If you believe in swirl effect on the tail
(you have oiled the surface), my tail off set may be just compensating for
that and the VGs are helping remove the little bit of asymmetrical thrust
over and above the standard engine off set to the right. My plane doesn't
fly level to the relative wind in normal cruise. Therefore the prop is at a
slight climb angle with the resulting "P" factor. The reason I like the
idea of VGs is that we can use no more than needed to do the job on a wide
variety of RVs. I now need left ruder in a dive and right of course in a
climb.
If anyone has any of the smaller VGs available (e.g. 1/4-3/16) and wants to
loan/give them to the cause, it would be greatly appreciated. Viva lift
without drag maximus.
Good luck with all that you experiment with. It has its rewards.
Gary and Pugsley
P.S. Let us not forget the electric nose wheel positioner for cockpit trim
control
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
| Subject: | LRI (Real Reasons) |
Boyd Braem. You da Man!!
Huge applause!! Many kudos! A pilot that knows exactly how an airplane
fly's. Just when you think airspeed is accurate, you open your owners manual
and there is an airspeed correction chart telling you that your new $200,000
airplane is not telling the truth.
Bill Geipel, LRI
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Boyd C. Braem
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: LRI (Real Reasons)
http://www.monmouth.com/~jsd/how/htm/aoa.html
Paul Besing wrote:
>
>
> This isn't about another device to keep your head
> inside the cockpit. It should REPLACE your airspeed
> indicator. It gives you much more than what your
> airpseed does. Your stall speed and lift
> characteristics changes for different conditions.
> Density altitude, weight and balance, etc. All of
> these factors can greatly change your aircraft's lift
> and stall characteristics. The LRI does not care what
> these variable are. It will always show the accurate
> reading relative to lift. Your airspeed indicator is
> archaic compared to an LRI. Yes, your airspeed is
> generally accurate, but what if you were close to aft
> CG when you took off with full tanks? You burn fuel
> and your CG moves further aft, and next thing you know
> your stall speed has increased. You fly your normal
> approach, 90, 80, 70, etc. You are busy thinking
> about your landing, your trip to the hotel, the beach,
> excited to show off your RV, etc. You glance at your
> airspeed indicator like you always do, but your CG has
> changed. Uh oh..you are 10 feet above the runway and
> you stall...boing, boing, boing. Dead? Maybe not.
> Bent firewall? who knows. If you make it a point to
> glance at your LRI INSTEAD of your airpseed, you will
> NEVER have that problem, no matter the conditions.
>
> Also, contrary to popular belief, flap position has no
> effect on it's accuracy. Now, if you could forget
> about your $150 airspeed indicator, spend an extra
> $300 on an LRI, you would have everything an airspeed
> indicator and much more for $300.
>
> Flame away.
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A 197AB Arizona
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> No LRI, but wish I had one
>
> why buy it if in reality it
> > gives you no more
> > > information than your airspeed does?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
| Subject: | Lift Reserve URL... |
RV owners. Send your "N" number and get a $50 discount.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 12:23 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
Actually, I was trying to get to the ".net" address...
Anyway, since your matching, or beating their prices, then there is no
reason to go to the .net guy...
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Al Mojzisik
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:07 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
Listers,
If anyone else is having trouble getting > www.liftreserve.com < to
come up I would like to know. Especially if it sends you to the web
address below since that is who manufactures the electronic version of the
LRI. I don't want to believe that there is some Internet chicanery going on
here but you never know. Thanks, AL
>
>that does not seem to be a valid URL... It sends here:
>http://www.milenginc.com/
>
>-Bill
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
>Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:34 AM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
>
>
>LIFTRESERVE.NET is the $450 one. The .com guy is $700! Same product. The
>.NET guys have a smaller probe. better looking.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bill
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
>Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 6:58 AM
>To: Rv8list(at)Egroups.Com; Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com
>Subject: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
>
>
>http://www.liftreserve.com
>
>-Bill
>
>
Al Mojzisik
InAir Instruments, LLC
Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI)
AOA and SO much more!
http://www.liftreserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
Nothing personal, but you are attempting to give a book report on a book you
haven't read. AOA is nothing at all like airspeed. In fact airspeed is
nothing without AOA. I'll admit that airspeed does give you the flap and
gear speed, but it doesn't tell you when the wing will stall. I also agree
that head in the cockpit is bad but that is why these units are mounted in
front of you on the glareshield. They are all accurate above 1g. AOA is
accurate at any "G". G is the reason you don't know when the wing will
stall. Open the owners manual of most airplanes and you find the airspeed
correction table which breaks the bad news to you that your new airplane has
a problem. The Navy may argue the importance of AOA with you. Many a dead
pilot used airspeed instead of AOA to get on board the boat.
Seat of the pants?? My jeans aren't that smart. 22,000 hours and I still
can't tell you at what indicated airspeed my airplane will stall.
You're right, everybody will have to decide.
Best of luck, Thanks for the info. I really enjoy these discussions. The
important thing to remember guys, AOA is how the airplane flys. Really its
money but thats not what we're talking about.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of gert
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: LRI
-
KostaLewis wrote:
>
>
> > The conclusion that that
> > I came to from that thread was these devices are not accurate above 1G
> > and that flap position would also affect accuracy. So, my question to
> > you guys who are contemplating spending several hundred dollars on one
> > of these units, is why buy it if in reality it gives you no more
> > information than your airspeed does? I can say in my experience over
> > the past year flying my RV at least 3 hours a week that even if I had
> > one of these devices installed I probably wouldn't pay too much
> > attention to it. Once you get a feel for your RV you will become very
> > perceptive to what the airplane is doing
>
> Bingo. It seems like one more device that keeps your head inside the
cockpit
> when it should be outside watching/feeling what is going on. What is wrong
> with seat-of-the-pants flying? If these were aircraft that were hard to
fly
> or had quirky stall characteristics or other bad slow-flight behavior, LRI
> might.....might....be worth having. IMHO.
>
> Heads UP, out there.
>
> Michael
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Lift Reserve URL... |
How 'bout "C" 'numbers'? :)
Are
RV-8 Wings C-GQRV (reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
Sent: August 1, 2001 10:07 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
RV owners. Send your "N" number and get a $50 discount.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
My apologies. I'm new to this game. I do enjoy it though.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of KostaLewis
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: LRI was Oshkosh RV Awards
> All readers, we are not hiding who we are. The price is $450...
All of which has nothing to do with the above subject line. Come on,
posters. If you post something in reply to a previous post with a different
subject, CHANGE the subject line. Otherwise you may not get the readers you
want because they are not interested in the original subject, even though it
is now changed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Just ordered OUR RV's |
Jeff Garrett and Rodney Chester
Louisville, Kentucky
This is a three part post
Part one
Well after alot of hard work (and money)to build
my garage and buy the tools needed to build my 7a.
I got to talking to my neighbor and he decided to
build a 9a with me in my new garage. So when Van
gets into work tomorrow he is going to find one
order for a 7a and one for a 9a hot off the fax.
Part two
I want to set up a web site documenting the
progress of my RV but know enough about html to be
dangerous...so if anybody would like to help me
out I'll let you:-)
Part three
I belong to a local flying club, Blue Lick Aero,
and Tom is willing to start the EAA club up
again.We need to have 10 members, We curently
would have 5 members all building kit or antique
aircraft.Tom can also do inspections on your
project up to the last inspection "if you are a
member" of the club.We will be having a meeting
this saturday, if you would be interested, E-mail
me for more info.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Avionics Packages |
If you're getting close to avionics, here is a cool webpage from a
company that offers ten radio stack packages.
http://www.avionix.com/valuestacks.html
The prices seem competitive as they all come pre-wired. That saves lots
of work that costs a bunch too.
You have to let it load for awhile as it is a long page. I like the one
second from the bottom. Doubt I will be able to afford it though.....
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com> |
| Subject: | Blue Mountain Avionics |
I saw them .
I got yhe impression from them though that they are still a bit off.
Did you notice the flicker? The refresh rate was seemingly about 15 Hz at
best. They *claim* that they can run at 24-30 Hz, but since they did not do
it at the show, I was not convinced as of the moment.
Now if they either tighten up the s/w for more speed or add a faster
processor then I think it will be a nice device. Didn't spend much time on
the heat pitot/solid state gyro combo though as I was trying to get them to
give me the strsight scoop on the flicker.
Note though that if your instruments are closely spaced, you may have a
problem as I **think** the display is wider than the spacing of "standard"
instruments.
Also saw the Compaq IPAQ based unit, along with the Blue Mountain one and
some EXPENSIVE ones I woin't even other to mention.
The IPAQ-based unit was basic and less than $2K as I recall. Looked OK but I
for one am nt ready to trust all to an IPAQ so as Bernie mentioned, having a
backup (multiple) is probably a good idea.
Was most impressed with the Blue Mountain unit. Tried to figure out if their
6" unit (as opposed to their 10" unit) would fit in a standard rack. Might
go visit them to see for sure. Would make a good Vision Microsystems
replacement ... maybe.
James ....
Wondering about the panel components ... AGAIN!!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bernie Kerr
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics
Bob,
Am I the only one that looked at the Dynon(sp?) system. It has 3
accelerometers and 3 tuned fork gyros. Now I've told you more than I know
about that, but the display they had grabbed me more than Blue mountain
because it fits my panel and my pocket book. They were in the NE corner of
building D. There unit has AS, AI, AOA, HEADING, ALTITUDE, VSI, TI, AND SLIP
BALL all in a 3 1/8 in hole. All for $2199 including a heated pitot with the
static holes for AOA.
This unit, an ipaq with Anywhere software, and a navcom with GS is going to
be my panel if Dynon comes through, in the meantime I am going to use a
Rocky Mt encoder. I will keep my propietary AOA and an electric turn
indicator as backups. Probably will keep my 195 mounted also as a backup to
ipaq.
Bernie Kerr, 6A,
My guess is that within 2-3 years you'll see
> drop-in electronic replacements for your gyro's.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bob Japundza
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid & Speaking of FAA Paperwork |
John,
I heard that Terry Edwards has been in hospital for surgery.
Try calling again next week.
Cliff
>
> Now, as to FAA paperwork:
>
> I have wanted to get my operating limitations changed to the latest
version
> that allows major changes with a log entry, five hours of trouble free
> flying, and another specific log entry. The FSDO at Denver says they
> can't/won't help, and to get a DAR. I talked to a DAR in Boulder, who
never
> called me back after promising to do so (He also wanted to make a complete
> inspection of the aircraft - along with an inspection fee I guess) A DAR
in
> Pueble won't return my calls.
>
> What a way to run a ship!!!!
>
> John at Salida, CO
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Are Barstad <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Reasons to use AOA devices |
I personally lean towards not having any AOA devices at all but will have EI's
super clock with the Density Altitude display and adjustable bugs on my airspeed
gauge. I intend to learn and feel how to fly the aircraft based on the airspeed
gauge, density altitude and proper weight & balance work... and most importantly,
by looking outside and flying by the seat of your pants. ahhh... 'conventional'
flying :)
If you constantly find density altitudes and the weight of your aircraft the way
you loaded it a surprise, you might want to take up gardening... unless of course,
you're landing on carriers frequently. THEN it will make a difference.
Or of course if you're just simply lazy and don't want to be bothered with W&B
or being on top of the density altitudes you fly in (knowing the true effects)
OR learn to know your aircraft. In commercial aircraft, I can see a need since
the weight is only being estimated. I have the privilege of asking my passenger
how much (s)he weighs... NEVER ask your wife! Just fly _very_ fast. (just
kidding!) :)
I don't know about the RV's (yet) but in other aircraft I fly, I do lot of stalls
in many configurations and can feel it easily to prevent inadvertent stalls.
Didn't someone recently say that the RV-8's tail shakes 5 mph or so before stall?
Many, if not most of the stall/spin accidents happen when someone i.e. turn base
to final and add too much back pressure so they won't overshoot the extended
centerline of the runway (too proud to make it look like they turned too late!).
The increased G loading will increase the stall speed and a wing could drop
- sometimes the high wing (ask me how I know), resulting in the deadly approach
spin. I'm sure the AOA gauge will show this but only the instant you pull
(since you're close to stall already) and when it's too late. The AOA gauge is
only good if you look at it, right? Do you think a guy trying to line up with
the runway after he misjudged a turn will look at the gauge? Wrong! LED's or
not - take a last look at it... after all, it told you that you lost control of
the aircraft...
I don't know about you but I currently at least a few times every 6 months simulate
take-off power departure stalls and base to final stalls at ~5000ft. Many
times, my intentional base to final stalls will result in an incipient spin but
in Canada luckily, spin training is mandatory (or at least was when I got my
ticket). Practice slow flight and accelerated stalls a lot and it might save
your bacon some day. If you shy away from it, it might get you some day.
I'm no expert but do know how to fly a plane. Please correct me if I'm totally
wrong with any of the above. These discussions are (or at least should be) healthy
since it may bring out thoughts or experiences that fosters a safer flying
environment.
Are
RV-8 Wings (I promise - no more rambling from me today!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
Hey guys,
At what point should one apply for a permanent N number? I have a number
reserved which will have to be renewed in December. I am about a year
away from flying (on a rolling basis.) Property tax is not a problem in
my area. Can I, should I, apply for the permanent number rather than
just renew the reservation?
Charlie Brame
RV-6AQB, Canopy
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Schlosser" <kevinschlosser(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
I've got the Campbell Hausfeld inline water filter. It's the
smaller one about the size of a gascolator. That'll do right?
What about tool oiling? I see oiling manifolds for house air rigs.
I'm not sure if I want oil vapor injected into my air hoses if that's
what these things do. I'd assume anyone that uses those has a
separate hose for painting operations?
This is my first attempt at using air powered tools, so I'd like to
do things properly.
As for the die grinder, I wonder if connecting the 11 gallon tank
inline with the compressor's tank would help?
Kevin
July 28, 2001 - August 02, 2001
RV-Archive.digest.vol-lg