RV-Archive.digest.vol-lh
August 02, 2001 - August 04, 2001
-=-=-
Looking forward to smashing rivets!
----- Original Message -----
From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 8:37 AM
Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
Kevin, no problem, thats overkill. The only real test for it will be your
die grinder, just be sure you protect your air tools from water coming
through the hose. The other test will be if you want to paint your plane
yourself using that compressor. Other than that no problem.
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
Charles anytime you want would be a good time. I
applied for my permanent tail # the day my tail kit
arrived here in Texas. I was worried and had heard
tales of the state coming after you for a tax on the
a/c. I applied at the tail section portion so if they
came after me my total value for the plane was around
1200.00 at that time. I would not reserve a tail #
unless you want a custom # but it will cost you to
renew the reservation each year or so (if memory
serves me right.) In my opinion it is cheaper to just
get the permanent tail # right away.
Glenn Williams
--- Charles Brame wrote:
>
>
> Hey guys,
>
> At what point should one apply for a permanent N
> number? I have a number
> reserved which will have to be renewed in December.
> I am about a year
> away from flying (on a rolling basis.) Property tax
> is not a problem in
> my area. Can I, should I, apply for the permanent
> number rather than
> just renew the reservation?
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6AQB, Canopy
> San Antonio
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Michael Sices" <michaelsices(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Reasons to use AOA devices |
>The AOA gauge is only good if you look at it, right?
I believe the device has an annunciator that gives an aural warning when aoa
gets to a certain point - before the stall. Probably, if you yank back on
the stick hard enough, the accelerated stall may happen before there is time
to hear the warning, like you say. Does anyone know if the RV just sort of
chirps in an accelerated stall, or does it typically drop a wing? (I'm sure
a lot of this is dependant on attitude of flight, engine prop combo etc.)
Thanks,
Mike Sices
RV8 QB
>From: Are Barstad <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Reasons to use AOA devices
>Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:07:54 EDT
>
>
>I personally lean towards not having any AOA devices at all but will have
>EI's super clock with the Density Altitude display and adjustable bugs on
>my airspeed gauge. I intend to learn and feel how to fly the aircraft based
>on the airspeed gauge, density altitude and proper weight & balance work...
>and most importantly, by looking outside and flying by the seat of your
>pants. ahhh... 'conventional' flying :)
>
>If you constantly find density altitudes and the weight of your aircraft
>the way you loaded it a surprise, you might want to take up gardening...
>unless of course, you're landing on carriers frequently. THEN it will make
>a difference. Or of course if you're just simply lazy and don't want to be
>bothered with W&B or being on top of the density altitudes you fly in
>(knowing the true effects) OR learn to know your aircraft. In commercial
>aircraft, I can see a need since the weight is only being estimated. I have
>the privilege of asking my passenger how much (s)he weighs... NEVER ask
>your wife! Just fly _very_ fast. (just kidding!) :)
>
>I don't know about the RV's (yet) but in other aircraft I fly, I do lot of
>stalls in many configurations and can feel it easily to prevent inadvertent
>stalls. Didn't someone recently say that the RV-8's tail shakes 5 mph or so
>before stall?
>
>Many, if not most of the stall/spin accidents happen when someone i.e. turn
>base to final and add too much back pressure so they won't overshoot the
>extended centerline of the runway (too proud to make it look like they
>turned too late!). The increased G loading will increase the stall speed
>and a wing could drop - sometimes the high wing (ask me how I know),
>resulting in the deadly approach spin. I'm sure the AOA gauge will show
>this but only the instant you pull (since you're close to stall already)
>and when it's too late. The AOA gauge is only good if you look at it,
>right? Do you think a guy trying to line up with the runway after he
>misjudged a turn will look at the gauge? Wrong! LED's or not - take a last
>look at it... after all, it told you that you lost control of the
>aircraft...
>I don't know about you but I currently at least a few times every 6 months
>simulate take-off power departure stalls and base to final stalls at
>~5000ft. Many times, my intentional base to final stalls will result in an
>incipient spin but in Canada luckily, spin training is mandatory (or at
>least was when I got my ticket). Practice slow flight and accelerated
>stalls a lot and it might save your bacon some day. If you shy away from
>it, it might get you some day.
>
>I'm no expert but do know how to fly a plane. Please correct me if I'm
>totally wrong with any of the above. These discussions are (or at least
>should be) healthy since it may bring out thoughts or experiences that
>fosters a safer flying environment.
>
>Are
>RV-8 Wings (I promise - no more rambling from me today!)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chuck Weyant" <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com> |
I can't find the URL for E Charts. Any help?
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Subject: | Navaid & Speaking of FAA Paperwork |
If you are an EAA member, open your magazine, look up the toll
free number for help with government issues and call. That is just another
reason one joins EAA.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Now, as to FAA paperwork:
I have wanted to get my operating limitations changed to the latest version
that allows major changes with a log entry, five hours of trouble free
flying, and another specific log entry. The FSDO at Denver says they
can't/won't help, and to get a DAR. I talked to a DAR in Boulder, who never
called me back after promising to do so (He also wanted to make a complete
inspection of the aircraft - along with an inspection fee I guess) A DAR in
Pueble won't return my calls.
What a way to run a ship!!!!
John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
http://www.echarts.cc/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chuck Weyant
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 8:57 AM
Subject: RV-List: E Charts
I can't find the URL for E Charts. Any help?
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: Centering the Ball at Cruise A/S |
Why the exception for the RV-8?
Steve Johnson
RV-8 finishing wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Graham" <beeb(at)teleport.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 9:08 PM
Subject: RV-List: Centering the Ball at Cruise A/S
>
> Pugsley Engineering (my dog's Co.) has been playing with methods of
> centering the ball on my RV-4FB. Here are some of the methods:
> 5. Gear leg fairings; By far one of the best ways to effect yaw is the
> gear leg fairing (that's why we put them on, right?) Often the reason we
> need to move the ball is to compensate for the gear leg fairings interplay
> with relative wind and prop swirl. Those who have flown with them on and
> off can comment on this. Best do all testing with then off (except RV-8).
> Once you have the ball where you wan it, then put them on and flight test
> them. Adjust them until the ball is back in the center.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrjb(at)msn.com> |
Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain Avionics (Dynon thread) |
Weird , we are: thinking about PANEL AGAIN AND MY AIRPLANE HAS BARELY BEEN
FLYING A YEAR!!
Ken DeGraff of Sensenich props ( a practical sort of geek) went over and
looked at the Dynon display for me and he talked about the flicker. It was
not noticeable enough to bother me visually. Is there another operational
concern that it is too slow to use as a flight instrument??
Bernie Kerr, 6A, S Fla
____________________________________
"
>
> I saw them .
>
> I got yhe impression from them though that they are still a bit off.
>
> Did you notice the flicker? The refresh rate was seemingly about 15 Hz at
> best. They *claim* that they can run at 24-30 Hz, but since they did not
do
> it at the show, I was not convinced as of the moment.
>
> Now if they either tighten up the s/w for more speed or add a faster
> processor then I think it will be a nice device. Didn't spend much time on
> the heat pitot/solid state gyro combo though as I was trying to get them
to
> give me the strsight scoop on the flicker.
---------------------------------------------------
> Wondering about the panel components ... AGAIN!!
---------------------------------------------->
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Lkyswede(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
With all due respect to those considering Sub engines, are you not persuing
"false economy". I'll preface this thought with the following comment. I
DO believe that a properly installed and engineered Subaru installation in
an RV is functionally superior to a Lycoming. In my humble opinion, current
aircraft engines are the largest most overpriced lawnmower engines in
existence.
Ok that said, if I were building an RV, given the pricing of the Sub
installation, I'd put a Lycoming in it. Why:
1) Installation Price - 17K for firewall forward - About what an O-320
costs.
2) Auto Fuel - Hmm. A 150 hp O-320 runs fine on Auto, 80, or 100LL.
3)******HERE'S THE BIGGIE***. Resale - As the list has shown, there are
lots of potential RV buyers. How do you think it would go with a Sub
engine, or any auto engine conversion???
If I were 65 yrs old and considered my RV to be the last plane I'd own, I'd
probably build it with a Sub or a Mazda rotary.
Electronic Ignition
Fuel Injection
Liquid Cooling
Cheap parts
Subaru Reliability (12" long crank with 5 bearings = bulletproof)
Or .. If I intended to fly the plane 4000 hours during the time I owned it,
I might use a converted auto engine. In that case, the lower maintenance
costs might outweigh the poorer resale.
But as it is, my plane is the second largest investment I have ever made in
my life, and its resale value is not inconsequential. One of the
justifications I have made to myself is that if I ever needed to sell my RV,
I could get out of it what I put into it. Although that is really a fantasy
when you consider ongoing costs, it is closer to reality when the plane has
a standard engine.
Best regards,
Don Mei
RV-4 N92CT
3B9 - Chester, CT
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
Hey Glenn
What did you enter in the bracket for engine specs on the request for an
N number ??
There is an added bonus, I believe, to having a permanent N number early
in the building, one which I hope nobody would ever have to exercise.
That is, somebody messing with you kit whilst building, like breaking
and entering and damaging, automatically becomes a federal offence. the
local constabulate might be more enticed to look into your case....if
memory serves me right.
Gert
glenn williams wrote:
>
>
> Charles anytime you want would be a good time. I
> applied for my permanent tail # the day my tail kit
> arrived here in Texas. I was worried and had heard
> tales of the state coming after you for a tax on the
> a/c. I applied at the tail section portion so if they
> came after me my total value for the plane was around
> 1200.00 at that time. I would not reserve a tail #
> unless you want a custom # but it will cost you to
> renew the reservation each year or so (if memory
> serves me right.) In my opinion it is cheaper to just
> get the permanent tail # right away.
>
> Glenn Williams
>
> --- Charles Brame wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > At what point should one apply for a permanent N
> > number? I have a number
> > reserved which will have to be renewed in December.
> > I am about a year
> > away from flying (on a rolling basis.) Property tax
> > is not a problem in
> > my area. Can I, should I, apply for the permanent
> > number rather than
> > just renew the reservation?
> >
> > Charlie Brame
> > RV-6AQB, Canopy
> > San Antonio
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ====
> Glenn Williams
> 8A
> A&P
> N81GW
>
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
I have my N number reserved. What Form do I need to make it permanent?
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of gert
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: N Number
Hey Glenn
What did you enter in the bracket for engine specs on the request for an
N number ??
There is an added bonus, I believe, to having a permanent N number early
in the building, one which I hope nobody would ever have to exercise.
That is, somebody messing with you kit whilst building, like breaking
and entering and damaging, automatically becomes a federal offence. the
local constabulate might be more enticed to look into your case....if
memory serves me right.
Gert
glenn williams wrote:
>
>
> Charles anytime you want would be a good time. I
> applied for my permanent tail # the day my tail kit
> arrived here in Texas. I was worried and had heard
> tales of the state coming after you for a tax on the
> a/c. I applied at the tail section portion so if they
> came after me my total value for the plane was around
> 1200.00 at that time. I would not reserve a tail #
> unless you want a custom # but it will cost you to
> renew the reservation each year or so (if memory
> serves me right.) In my opinion it is cheaper to just
> get the permanent tail # right away.
>
> Glenn Williams
>
> --- Charles Brame wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > At what point should one apply for a permanent N
> > number? I have a number
> > reserved which will have to be renewed in December.
> > I am about a year
> > away from flying (on a rolling basis.) Property tax
> > is not a problem in
> > my area. Can I, should I, apply for the permanent
> > number rather than
> > just renew the reservation?
> >
> > Charlie Brame
> > RV-6AQB, Canopy
> > San Antonio
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ====
> Glenn Williams
> 8A
> A&P
> N81GW
>
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com> |
I've read where some builders backrivet wing skins, fuselage skins, etc. to
give a better appearance.
Is it possible or advisable to backrivet either the skins on the HS or VS
.... only one side could probably be done.
If so, what rivet set would be used in the gun? I don't see how the
standard backrivet set would fit inside the rib flanges.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
Kevin,
The little water "gascolator" won't do too much for you unless you mount it
quite a ways from the compressor. I mounted a bigger version of one of those
on my compressor for mobile use, and found that I still got a lot of water
at the nail gun. When I set up my shop, I piped it in copper. I ran a rubber
hose from the compressor up to the joists and from there it's all copper and
all downhill. Wherever I tapped the line for air outlets, I came off the top
of the pipe and u'ed down so that whatever water is in the main line runs to
the end of the line, where I put a drain valve. At quitting time, I drain
the "gascolator" (which gets the run back from the first rise) and the
compressor. I rarely see any water at the end of the line drain and never at
my air tools. By the way, I plumbed in another regulator off the top at the
end of line, with large air drier for painting, and I keep that one set for
rivet gun and run a hose from there to the work. I've still got full
pressure for drills and die grinders every where else.
Put a couple of drops of oil in your tools. If you're working all day, oil
'em again after lunch if you like. Don't oil the system.
More air storage helps, but takes longer to recharge. There's no substitute
for cubic inches (in engines and compressor pumps).
Ed Holyoke
6QB panel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Schlosser" <kevinschlosser(at)msn.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: My new air compressor
>
> I've got the Campbell Hausfeld inline water filter. It's the
> smaller one about the size of a gascolator. That'll do right?
>
> What about tool oiling? I see oiling manifolds for house air rigs.
> I'm not sure if I want oil vapor injected into my air hoses if that's
> what these things do. I'd assume anyone that uses those has a
> separate hose for painting operations?
>
> This is my first attempt at using air powered tools, so I'd like to
> do things properly.
>
> As for the die grinder, I wonder if connecting the 11 gallon tank
> inline with the compressor's tank would help?
>
> Kevin
> -=-=-
> Looking forward to smashing rivets!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 8:37 AM
> To: kevinschlosser(at)msn.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: My new air compressor
>
>
> Kevin, no problem, thats overkill. The only real test for it will be your
> die grinder, just be sure you protect your air tools from water coming
> through the hose. The other test will be if you want to paint your plane
> yourself using that compressor. Other than that no problem.
>
> Eric
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Reasons to use AOA devices |
Are, ref the 'look at gauges'.... The AOA I purchased from Van's has a
young lady 'on board', when you are about to lose it, she says, "push
the stick. push the stick." No looking at gauges. You might want to
look at the gauge on a 'short field' landing.
Barry POte RV9a fuselage.
Are Barstad wrote:
>
>
> I personally lean towards not having any AOA devices at all
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
I put what I intended to have on the airplane. i.e
lycoming 0-360A1A. No serial number. As I didnt have
one then. I now have the 0-360A1A and it has no data
plate. Hence no serial # but that will be remedied
when I rebuild the engine with my own data plate and
when the dar inspects the plane I intend to have the
40 hour test period on my experimental "certified"
engine.
Glenn Williams
--- gert wrote:
>
>
> Hey Glenn
>
> What did you enter in the bracket for engine specs
> on the request for an
> N number ??
>
> There is an added bonus, I believe, to having a
> permanent N number early
> in the building, one which I hope nobody would ever
> have to exercise.
> That is, somebody messing with you kit whilst
> building, like breaking
> and entering and damaging, automatically becomes a
> federal offence. the
> local constabulate might be more enticed to look
> into your case....if
> memory serves me right.
>
> Gert
>
> glenn williams wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > Charles anytime you want would be a good time. I
> > applied for my permanent tail # the day my tail
> kit
> > arrived here in Texas. I was worried and had heard
> > tales of the state coming after you for a tax on
> the
> > a/c. I applied at the tail section portion so if
> they
> > came after me my total value for the plane was
> around
> > 1200.00 at that time. I would not reserve a tail #
> > unless you want a custom # but it will cost you to
> > renew the reservation each year or so (if memory
> > serves me right.) In my opinion it is cheaper to
> just
> > get the permanent tail # right away.
> >
> > Glenn Williams
> >
> > --- Charles Brame wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey guys,
> > >
> > > At what point should one apply for a permanent N
> > > number? I have a number
> > > reserved which will have to be renewed in
> December.
> > > I am about a year
> > > away from flying (on a rolling basis.) Property
> tax
> > > is not a problem in
> > > my area. Can I, should I, apply for the
> permanent
> > > number rather than
> > > just renew the reservation?
> > >
> > > Charlie Brame
> > > RV-6AQB, Canopy
> > > San Antonio
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > through
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> > >
> > > Matronics!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ====
> > Glenn Williams
> > 8A
> > A&P
> > N81GW
> >
> > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
> >
>
> --
> is subject to a download and archival fee in the
> amount of $500
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James Oberst" <jfoberst(at)earthlink.net> |
I didn't reserve mine at all, I just applied for it - years ago, and I'm not
flying yet. I got a tax bill (really an inquiry) from Ohio, but one of the
choices was "not airworthy". I suggest you just get it now.
Jim Oberst
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Brame" <charleyb(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 9:56 AM
Subject: RV-List: N Number
>
> Hey guys,
>
> At what point should one apply for a permanent N number? I have a number
> reserved which will have to be renewed in December. I am about a year
> away from flying (on a rolling basis.) Property tax is not a problem in
> my area. Can I, should I, apply for the permanent number rather than
> just renew the reservation?
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6AQB, Canopy
> San Antonio
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Backriveting HS |
IMHO, backriveting is nice, but does not give such a great look that you
have to jump through hoops to do it. The top wing skins and most of the
fuselage can be back riveted because they have more interior room. Indeed,
the wing leading edges and tanks don't lend themselves too well to back
riveting unless there are some methods I'm not aware of. The rivet gun is
just too big to fit inside.
I achieved a very nice finish on the HS skins by using a helper to run the
gun while I bucked. (I kicked some smiles into the VS skins because I tried
doing them alone.) I seriously doubt anybody will be able to tell the
difference after painting. The best part of back riveting in my mind is
that it virtually eliminates that nasty habit the flat rivet set has of
walking around while setting the rivet. Also, the person doing the bucking
doesn't have to have any expertise at it, because all they are doing is
holding a heavy weight against an already flat rivet head.
Jim Bower
St. Louis, MO
RV-6A N143DJ
Wings (fuse on order)
>From: "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Backriveting HS
>Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:12:55 -0400
>
>
>
>I've read where some builders backrivet wing skins, fuselage skins, etc. to
>give a better appearance.
>
>Is it possible or advisable to backrivet either the skins on the HS or VS
>.... only one side could probably be done.
>
>If so, what rivet set would be used in the gun? I don't see how the
>standard backrivet set would fit inside the rib flanges.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
Subject: | Lift Reserve URL... |
Absolutely! My mistake. "C", "N", "OK, "M" etc.
The goal is to get them out there. Once installed, you will be amazed just
what you know with AOA that airspeed fails to deliver.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Are Barstad
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 9:34 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
How 'bout "C" 'numbers'? :)
Are
RV-8 Wings C-GQRV (reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
Sent: August 1, 2001 10:07 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Lift Reserve URL...
RV owners. Send your "N" number and get a $50 discount.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
Thanks.
Gert
glenn williams wrote:
>
>
> I put what I intended to have on the airplane. i.e
> lycoming 0-360A1A. No serial number. As I didnt have
> one then. I now have the 0-360A1A and it has no data
> plate. Hence no serial # but that will be remedied
> when I rebuild the engine with my own data plate and
> when the dar inspects the plane I intend to have the
> 40 hour test period on my experimental "certified"
> engine.
>
> Glenn Williams
>
> --- gert wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hey Glenn
> >
> > What did you enter in the bracket for engine specs
> > on the request for an
> > N number ??
> >
> > There is an added bonus, I believe, to having a
> > permanent N number early
> > in the building, one which I hope nobody would ever
> > have to exercise.
> > That is, somebody messing with you kit whilst
> > building, like breaking
> > and entering and damaging, automatically becomes a
> > federal offence. the
> > local constabulate might be more enticed to look
> > into your case....if
> > memory serves me right.
> >
> > Gert
> >
> > glenn williams wrote:
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > Charles anytime you want would be a good time. I
> > > applied for my permanent tail # the day my tail
> > kit
> > > arrived here in Texas. I was worried and had heard
> > > tales of the state coming after you for a tax on
> > the
> > > a/c. I applied at the tail section portion so if
> > they
> > > came after me my total value for the plane was
> > around
> > > 1200.00 at that time. I would not reserve a tail #
> > > unless you want a custom # but it will cost you to
> > > renew the reservation each year or so (if memory
> > > serves me right.) In my opinion it is cheaper to
> > just
> > > get the permanent tail # right away.
> > >
> > > Glenn Williams
> > >
> > > --- Charles Brame wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hey guys,
> > > >
> > > > At what point should one apply for a permanent N
> > > > number? I have a number
> > > > reserved which will have to be renewed in
> > December.
> > > > I am about a year
> > > > away from flying (on a rolling basis.) Property
> > tax
> > > > is not a problem in
> > > > my area. Can I, should I, apply for the
> > permanent
> > > > number rather than
> > > > just renew the reservation?
> > > >
> > > > Charlie Brame
> > > > RV-6AQB, Canopy
> > > > San Antonio
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > through
> > > >
> > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> > > >
> > > > Matronics!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ====
> > > Glenn Williams
> > > 8A
> > > A&P
> > > N81GW
> > >
> > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
> > >
> >
> > --
> > is subject to a download and archival fee in the
> > amount of $500
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ====
> Glenn Williams
> 8A
> A&P
> N81GW
>
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
Subject: | Re: Reasons to use AOA devices |
Are,
Unlike the airspeed indicator, the AOA device senses the same pressures that
your airfoil sees. The AOA then displays that angle of attack almost
instantly. Not only does it tell you when you've reached a critical angle
of attack, it also shows the trend on the display and warns you AS YOU
APPROACH that critical angle of attack.
One of these days when our planes are complete, we'll be up at a safe
altitude and pull up to see how that newly built baby will climb. If we
pull up hard and wait for the airspeed indicator to get to the stall speed,
you will most certainly have already stalled and started your recovery well
before the ASI gets to stall speed.
We all practice (or should practice) stalls in the departure and landing
configurations. We're set up for it, we're looking for it and we can feel
the controls as we get close to it. No problem. We correct our control
inputs and go about our business. None of the stories I've read about,
where pilots have stalled and died, happened while they were practicing
stalls. No, they were doing something else. Maybe they were flying along
at a slow speed to check out the neighborhood. Eyes outside, they see
something they like and turn to check it out. As you said, eyes outside,
flying the airplane. Maybe you get distracted at slow flight and turn to
look at something and inadvertently give that sensitive RV stick a little
tug more than you meant to (a certain John Denver story comes to mind).
There are a bazillion scenarios that can hurt you and I don't think it has
anything to do with being a good pilot or not. Lots of good pilots have met
their maker in stall/spin accidents. A certain, very experienced, Glassair
pilot last week at OSH with a bunch of hours comes to mind also.
Looking at the AOA indicator is no different than looking at the airspeed
indicator. We can fly with our heads outside the cockpit all day long but
we still look at the airspeed indicator when flying slow. Why do we do
that? Cause we don't want to fly to slow and stall. Why not look at an
instrument that gives you more information than an airspeed indicator? You
can still "fly with your head outside the cockpit". I can't speak for the
others, but the PSS AOA instrument gives an audible warning as you NEAR the
critical AOA. Get a little slow inadvertently and that cute little voice
wakes you from your day dream "Angle, Angle, Push".
Many of us are installing heated pitot/static systems in the anticipation of
flying in the clouds or at night. Departing in IFR conditions regardless of
airport density altitude or aircraft weight, I can't think of anything
better than taking off, setting up a departure angle of attack and be on my
merry way. A quick crosscheck with the ASI might just remind you that you
forgot to turn on the pitot as the airspeed indicator winds down.
Lots of planes have been flying lots of years without using an AOA devices.
They will continue to do so. Lots of planes have been flying lots of years
without GPS too, but having one sure makes getting lost harder to do.
Flying by AOA sure makes inadvertent stalling less likely also.
Thanks for the good discussion.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
> I personally lean towards not having any AOA devices at all but will have
EI's super clock with the Density Altitude display and adjustable bugs on my
airspeed gauge. I intend to learn and feel how to fly the aircraft based on
the airspeed gauge, density altitude and proper weight & balance work... and
most importantly, by looking outside and flying by the seat of your pants.
ahhh... 'conventional' flying :)
>
> If you constantly find density altitudes and the weight of your aircraft
the way you loaded it a surprise, you might want to take up gardening...
unless of course, you're landing on carriers frequently. THEN it will make a
difference. Or of course if you're just simply lazy and don't want to be
bothered with W&B or being on top of the density altitudes you fly in
(knowing the true effects) OR learn to know your aircraft. In commercial
aircraft, I can see a need since the weight is only being estimated. I have
the privilege of asking my passenger how much (s)he weighs... NEVER ask your
wife! Just fly _very_ fast. (just kidding!) :)
>
> I don't know about the RV's (yet) but in other aircraft I fly, I do lot of
stalls in many configurations and can feel it easily to prevent inadvertent
stalls. Didn't someone recently say that the RV-8's tail shakes 5 mph or so
before stall?
>
> Many, if not most of the stall/spin accidents happen when someone i.e.
turn base to final and add too much back pressure so they won't overshoot
the extended centerline of the runway (too proud to make it look like they
turned too late!). The increased G loading will increase the stall speed and
a wing could drop - sometimes the high wing (ask me how I know), resulting
in the deadly approach spin. I'm sure the AOA gauge will show this but only
the instant you pull (since you're close to stall already) and when it's too
late. The AOA gauge is only good if you look at it, right? Do you think a
guy trying to line up with the runway after he misjudged a turn will look at
the gauge? Wrong! LED's or not - take a last look at it... after all, it
told you that you lost control of the aircraft...
> I don't know about you but I currently at least a few times every 6 months
simulate take-off power departure stalls and base to final stalls at
~5000ft. Many times, my intentional base to final stalls will result in an
incipient spin but in Canada luckily, spin training is mandatory (or at
least was when I got my ticket). Practice slow flight and accelerated stalls
a lot and it might save your bacon some day. If you shy away from it, it
might get you some day.
>
> I'm no expert but do know how to fly a plane. Please correct me if I'm
totally wrong with any of the above. These discussions are (or at least
should be) healthy since it may bring out thoughts or experiences that
fosters a safer flying environment.
>
> Are
> RV-8 Wings (I promise - no more rambling from me today!)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Are Barstad <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Reasons to use AOA devices |
You're right - the PSS system does have an aural warning as well. When I practice
the base to final turn though, you wouldn't believe how fast it enters stll/spin
when you pull since a) increased G loading increases stall speed, b) increased
G loading decreases speed and c) increased bank doesn't help either. All
these factors are working against eachother in a split second. But as you mentioned:
for short fields and "S" turns on final etc., it would be a very good
help to not have to go through all the calculations to see how slow you can go
before you fall out of the sky.
I had planned on buying the 'A' kit from PSS at OSH but thought I'd think about
it some more after I saw the competition.
Are
>
> From: barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com>
> Date: 2001/08/02 Thu PM 01:23:53 EDT
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Reasons to use AOA devices
>
>
> Are, ref the 'look at gauges'.... The AOA I purchased from Van's has a
> young lady 'on board', when you are about to lose it, she says, "push
> the stick. push the stick." No looking at gauges. You might want to
> look at the gauge on a 'short field' landing.
>
> Barry POte RV9a fuselage.
>
> Are Barstad wrote:
> >
> >
> > I personally lean towards not having any AOA devices at all
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com> |
Subject: | Blue Mountain Avionics (Dynon thread) |
As a long-time computer-type geek, I wouldn't waste a lot of wonderment
puzzling over the display refresh rate. For one thing there are a lot of
tricks that can fix that, such as adding more MIPs with a faster processor,
or some fairly small changes in the software refresh loops.
What I'm concerned about is the accuracy and stability of the many
digital-signal-processing algorithms that have to be running to create all
those instruments, and the overall stability of their software in general.
From user reports about the (I forget the name) WinCE-PDA-based system, it
sounds like it crashes from time to time just like the Win98 on my desktop.
That means that during a cross-country that's long enough to use up a tank
of gas, you can expect to have to reboot it once or twice.
Now, I don't know about you, but the thought of having to reboot my entire
instrument panel every couple of hours does not make me feel very good. I
just know it will happen on final when I've misjudged the weather and it's
worse than I thought it would be.
TSO'ed instruments with software inside them (like GPS's) are required to
pass (with a bunch of documentation) a bunch of software tests (DO-178B, if
my memory serves), that are designed to make sure it doesn't crash, and that
it gets the right answers to display on its screen.
When one one of these guys can show that they've tested their software that
severely, then I'll be ready to throw out all the steam gauges and slap one
of these guys in (or preferably two, so I have a backup). Then my biggest
problem will be what to do with all that empty panel space. My wife has
suggested a bud vase...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bernie Kerr [mailto:kerrjb(at)msn.com]
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 6:43 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics (Dynon thread)
>
>
>
> Weird , we are: thinking about PANEL AGAIN AND MY AIRPLANE
> HAS BARELY BEEN
> FLYING A YEAR!!
>
> Ken DeGraff of Sensenich props ( a practical sort of geek)
> went over and
> looked at the Dynon display for me and he talked about the
> flicker. It was
> not noticeable enough to bother me visually. Is there another
> operational
> concern that it is too slow to use as a flight instrument??
>
> Bernie Kerr, 6A, S Fla
>
> ____________________________________
> "
> >
> > I saw them .
> >
> > I got yhe impression from them though that they are still a bit off.
> >
> > Did you notice the flicker? The refresh rate was seemingly
> about 15 Hz at
> > best. They *claim* that they can run at 24-30 Hz, but since
> they did not
> do
> > it at the show, I was not convinced as of the moment.
> >
> > Now if they either tighten up the s/w for more speed or add a faster
> > processor then I think it will be a nice device. Didn't
> spend much time on
> > the heat pitot/solid state gyro combo though as I was
> trying to get them
> to
> > give me the strsight scoop on the flicker.
> ---------------------------------------------------
> > Wondering about the panel components ... AGAIN!!
> ---------------------------------------------->
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
--- Kevin Schlosser wrote:
>
>
> I've got the Campbell Hausfeld inline water filter. It's the
> smaller one about the size of a gascolator. That'll do right?
That should do fine unless you're on a coast and very humid. We get
that way in central Texas and I've had my CH filter fill up in a day.
Just check it often under those conditions.
>
> What about tool oiling?
I don't recommend using an oiler.
1) The one I had was difficult to adjust and I never did get it to the
point where I wasn't over-oiling. I don't use it any more.
2) You would have to segregate your air hoses between riveting and
painting. So the oiler that you can't adjust right also costs you
another air hose.
Best to just use the routine of a couple of drops into the tool when
you start working.
FWIW
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
Subject: | Re: Navaid & Speaking of FAA Paperwork |
Cy Galley mentioned that I should contact EAA section on government issues
for help in getting new operating limitations...I did that some time
ago...they essentially said they understood about the personnel shortage in
some FSDO's and that a DAR was probably my only recourse....they also added
that they believed the FAA would never issue a single order putting all the
thousands of homebuilts under the new operating limits (that pertain to
'major' modifications...a simplified system where you do not have to have
FAA permission ((even if you could get it)) nor have to pay a DAR to do
precisely what those being issued airworthiness certificates nowadays can do
for nothing!)
EAA said that the biggest obstacle was twofold: one, FAA bureaucracy, and
two, objections from our insurance companies!!
Thanks for the suggestion Cy, but it's been tried and didn't help. And I am
a long-time EAA member. AOPA is too busy with the commercial aircraft
industry to really care about RV types...so I am just stuck I guess.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
Subject: | Re: S-Tec autopilot ??? |
I don't think you will find much price difference, but I got good service
from Waukegan Avionics...incidentally the S-Tec Altitude Hold System 30 is
marvelous...its really a great instrument and the kit is fully complete and
fits the RV exactly.
John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
http://www.echarts.cc
--- Chuck Weyant wrote:
>
>
> I can't find the URL for E Charts. Any help?
> Chuck
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
Subject: | Re: Reasons to use AOA devices |
In an accelerated mode the RV's tend to unhook pretty clean, (not much
warning) It just happens so slow that people don't tend to get into trouble
like they do in the plastic hotrods.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
>
>
> >The AOA gauge is only good if you look at it, right?
>
Snip
. Does anyone know if the RV just sort of
> chirps in an accelerated stall, or does it typically drop a wing? (I'm
sure
> a lot of this is dependant on attitude of flight, engine prop combo etc.)
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Sices
> RV8 QB
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
One thing you have to understand is that while the PSS
AOA is a unit that tells you your angle of attack, the
LRI is a Lift Instrument. Inadvertently it does tell
you AOA, but that is not it's intended function. It
tells you LIFT. If you don't have lift, then yes, you
stall, so that is where the AOA function is. Where
the LRI would come in handy is density altitude take
off situations to know when the wings are generating
lift, and also it will help you fly slower approaches
and more precisely. The other day I came in hot, and
thought I was slow enough and had a bad bounce. Had I
had the LRI, I could have seen that I was able to slow
down more before I touched down. My inexperience in
an RV had not had my seat of the pants feel that I was
too fast.
People mention that you need to keep your head outside
the airplane. Well, how often do you land your
airplane without looking at your airspeed indicator?
I would imagine that you do an instrument scan and
take a look at your airspeed to see if you need to
slow down or carry more power to the runway. If
instead you looked at your LRI on final, you could see
EXACTLY how much lift your wings are generating and
how close you are to being too slow. That to me is
much more valuable than an airspeed indicator. As
mentioned before, if you have any other factors on
your airplane, that stall speed that you marked on
your airspeed indicator is worthless.
====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
First Flight 7/22/01
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Judd <sjudd(at)ffd2.com> |
Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
Hi Kevin,
On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Kevin Schlosser wrote:
>
> I've got the Campbell Hausfeld inline water filter. It's the
> smaller one about the size of a gascolator. That'll do right?
>
> What about tool oiling? I see oiling manifolds for house air rigs.
> I'm not sure if I want oil vapor injected into my air hoses if that's
> what these things do. I'd assume anyone that uses those has a
> separate hose for painting operations?
I plumbed three lines into my system. Two are "wet" (oiled) and one is
dry. With two wet lines, I and a helper can build simultaneously; the dry
line is used for painting and air blowing.
The setup is: one hose goes from compressor to water filter, which goes to
a pressure regulator, which splits into three lines, two of which are
oiled. I used a cheapie cambell hausfeld aluminum three-way splitter, and
don't think too much of it (it leaks). Next time I will use brass
fittings to split up the lines. I mounted all the hardware on a small
board, and tacked that onto the wall.
I also highly suggest getting a good quality trap and oiler at the Home
Despot. The cheap little clear/bubble oilers are very cumbersome.
Fittings and hoses are cheap, and I like this setup quite a lot.
-Steve
P.S. I get a surprising amount of water in the (deluxe campbell-hausfeld)
water trap, and I live in New Mexico.
P.P.S. You did get the lightweight hose kit from Cleaveland, right?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Are Barstad <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Reasons to use AOA devices |
Excellent post Mike!
What we do know is that an AOA indicator will not in any way make your plane unsafe
- it can only make it safer when installed, calibrated and used properly.
The cost of an AOA system regardless of you deciding to use it as a backup or use
your ASI as backup is worth it if it only saves your life _once_ that time
when you're looking at something not paying attention (heaven forbid) and you
hear the voice saying "Angle, Push!".
Personally I'll stick with PSS since I already prepared for it and since it's combined
with an aural indicator. The others are probably just as good - only different
flavours.
Are
RV-8 Wings
>
> From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
> Date: 2001/08/02 Thu PM 02:07:38 EDT
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Reasons to use AOA devices
>
>
> Are,
>
> Unlike the airspeed indicator, the AOA device senses the same pressures that
> your airfoil sees. The AOA then displays that angle of attack almost
> instantly. Not only does it tell you when you've reached a critical angle
> of attack, it also shows the trend on the display and warns you AS YOU
> APPROACH that critical angle of attack.
>
> One of these days when our planes are complete, we'll be up at a safe
> altitude and pull up to see how that newly built baby will climb. If we
> pull up hard and wait for the airspeed indicator to get to the stall speed,
> you will most certainly have already stalled and started your recovery well
> before the ASI gets to stall speed.
>
> We all practice (or should practice) stalls in the departure and landing
> configurations. We're set up for it, we're looking for it and we can feel
> the controls as we get close to it. No problem. We correct our control
> inputs and go about our business. None of the stories I've read about,
> where pilots have stalled and died, happened while they were practicing
> stalls. No, they were doing something else. Maybe they were flying along
> at a slow speed to check out the neighborhood. Eyes outside, they see
> something they like and turn to check it out. As you said, eyes outside,
> flying the airplane. Maybe you get distracted at slow flight and turn to
> look at something and inadvertently give that sensitive RV stick a little
> tug more than you meant to (a certain John Denver story comes to mind).
>
> There are a bazillion scenarios that can hurt you and I don't think it has
> anything to do with being a good pilot or not. Lots of good pilots have met
> their maker in stall/spin accidents. A certain, very experienced, Glassair
> pilot last week at OSH with a bunch of hours comes to mind also.
>
> Looking at the AOA indicator is no different than looking at the airspeed
> indicator. We can fly with our heads outside the cockpit all day long but
> we still look at the airspeed indicator when flying slow. Why do we do
> that? Cause we don't want to fly to slow and stall. Why not look at an
> instrument that gives you more information than an airspeed indicator? You
> can still "fly with your head outside the cockpit". I can't speak for the
> others, but the PSS AOA instrument gives an audible warning as you NEAR the
> critical AOA. Get a little slow inadvertently and that cute little voice
> wakes you from your day dream "Angle, Angle, Push".
>
> Many of us are installing heated pitot/static systems in the anticipation of
> flying in the clouds or at night. Departing in IFR conditions regardless of
> airport density altitude or aircraft weight, I can't think of anything
> better than taking off, setting up a departure angle of attack and be on my
> merry way. A quick crosscheck with the ASI might just remind you that you
> forgot to turn on the pitot as the airspeed indicator winds down.
>
> Lots of planes have been flying lots of years without using an AOA devices.
> They will continue to do so. Lots of planes have been flying lots of years
> without GPS too, but having one sure makes getting lost harder to do.
>
> Flying by AOA sure makes inadvertent stalling less likely also.
>
> Thanks for the good discussion.
>
> Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> Plainfield, IL
> RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
> Stinson 108-2 N9666K
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Fuel System Plumbing Question |
All: I am considering the following arrangement of fuel system
components in my RV-6 and would appreciate any and all suggestions or
comments from the list.
In my planned installation fuel from both tanks goes direct to an Andair fuel
tank selector valve. Fuel out of the selector valve goes to an Andair
gascolator mounted in the left wing root (outside the cabin) and then back
inside to my Facet aux pump mounted at 45 degrees on the inside of the left
wing root (plans location) through a short compound half pretzel shaped piece
of tubing. From there the system is conventional with a "T" for the priming
solinoid and a fuel flow transducer ahead of the firewall.
My reasoning is to have the large capacity filter in the Andair gascolator
provide fuel filtering ahead of the aux pump, eliminating multiple fuel
filters, and to locate the gascolator in a cool area and as low as possible
in my tail dragger. My concern is whether the aux pump has enough suction to
draw fuel through the unprimed gascolator, as would be the case if/when one
has run a tank dry.
I will really appreciate any comments or suggestions, especially from anyone
who has experience with a similar installation.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
--- Rudy Albachten wrote:
> I hung the wings from the ceiling in the garage
> this morning. For the first time in ~5 years
> I can walk across the garage.
Congratulations Rudy!!! I guess you and Laura have already popped the
bubbly on this milestone?
I find building a plane gives one a great chance to explore different
Champagnes... There's one for the empennage, one for finishing the
wings, one for flipping the fuse, one for putting the fuse on the gear,
one for hanging the engine, one for getting it to the airport intact,
one for first engine run, one for passing the inspection and another
for first flight!
I have copied the RV-list on your achievement. It may have taken 5
years to complete the wings, but the rest will be a cakewalk.
:)
Stop by any time.
- Mike
====
Michael E. Thompson (Grobdriver(at)yahoo.com)
Austin, TX, USA
RV-6 in progress, N140RV (Reserved)
EX-AX1 Sub Hunter, P-3 (B/B-TACMOD/C) Orion Aircrew,
PP-G,ASEL, Motorglider Driver and Unlimited Air Race Nut!
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question |
--- HCRV6(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> All: I am considering the following arrangement of fuel system
> components in my RV-6 and would appreciate any and all suggestions or
> comments from the list.
Harry,
Am working that system now. I ran from the valve to the wing root, to
the pump then to gascolator (both in the root area). Do you really
expect large enough garbage in the fuel to foul the pump? I am not
using an inline filter prior to the boost pump.
I then run the lines from the root back into the cabin and up to a
bulkhead elbow at the firewall. I wanted to get as many fuel
connections out of the cabin as I could, and you're right - the
components will be nice and cool out there. No blast tubes, no
shields.
Once under the cowl I tee to primer solenoid (upside down or rightside
up) also to fuel flow sensor thence to mechanical pump.
Aside from our boost pump / gascolator order we've got the same setup,
which I unashamedly copy from flying RV's (-6's).
I think both will work fine.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Reasons to use AOA devices |
Actually she says "Angle angle, push" and I'm not going to go there.
Garry, Caspers Dad
barry pote wrote:
>
> Are, ref the 'look at gauges'.... The AOA I purchased from Van's has a
> young lady 'on board', when you are about to lose it, she says, "push
> the stick. push the stick." No looking at gauges. You might want to
> look at the gauge on a 'short field' landing.
>
> Barry POte RV9a fuselage.
>
> Are Barstad wrote:
> >
> >
> > I personally lean towards not having any AOA devices at all
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Kevin Schlosser" <kevinschlosser(at)msn.com> |
Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
The leaky T fitting you have would probably be better if you
wrapped the threads in pipe dope (teflon tape).
Hmmm, lightweight hose? I'll have to check that out.
I was looking in the photo archives on the www.vansaircraft.net
site (immeasurable excellent value to us newbies) and saw a
riveting contest between you RV 'celebrities' in someone's awesome
shop. They had an overhead rig for supporting the air hose.
I'm thinking of making up an overhead hinged arm to support the
garage air hose and run a yellow coiled hose from the arm to the work
with a swivel on the end and a quick connect.
I'm thinking of using a couple T's off the compressor to go to either
side of the garage. One to the bench, one to the overhead. Another run
will go through the foundation into my basement shop. Last run will be for
future expansion.
Eric H. sent me a great idea for a water trapping scheme. Now I need
to find a company that sells an auto water purge for the bottom of my
air tank. I've decided that oiling will be done manually.
I also need a quieter method of depressurizing the system at night.
Scares my wife and probably annoys my neighbors.
-=< PropellerHead >=-
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Judd
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: My new air compressor
Hi Kevin,
On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Kevin Schlosser wrote:
>
> I've got the Campbell Hausfeld inline water filter. It's the
> smaller one about the size of a gascolator. That'll do right?
>
> What about tool oiling? I see oiling manifolds for house air rigs.
> I'm not sure if I want oil vapor injected into my air hoses if that's
> what these things do. I'd assume anyone that uses those has a
> separate hose for painting operations?
I plumbed three lines into my system. Two are "wet" (oiled) and one is
dry. With two wet lines, I and a helper can build simultaneously; the dry
line is used for painting and air blowing.
The setup is: one hose goes from compressor to water filter, which goes to
a pressure regulator, which splits into three lines, two of which are
oiled. I used a cheapie cambell hausfeld aluminum three-way splitter, and
don't think too much of it (it leaks). Next time I will use brass
fittings to split up the lines. I mounted all the hardware on a small
board, and tacked that onto the wall.
I also highly suggest getting a good quality trap and oiler at the Home
Despot. The cheap little clear/bubble oilers are very cumbersome.
Fittings and hoses are cheap, and I like this setup quite a lot.
-Steve
P.S. I get a surprising amount of water in the (deluxe campbell-hausfeld)
water trap, and I live in New Mexico.
P.P.S. You did get the lightweight hose kit from Cleaveland, right?
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question |
Harry, keep the rise (height above fuel level), distance that the pump has to
pull and bends to a minimum. These pumps prefer to push liquids and obviously do
suck, but are much less efficient when doing so.
Garry, Caspers Dad
HCRV6(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> All: I am considering the following arrangement of fuel system
> components in my RV-6 and would appreciate any and all suggestions or
> comments from the list.
>
> In my planned installation fuel from both tanks goes direct to an Andair fuel
> tank selector valve. Fuel out of the selector valve goes to an Andair
> gascolator mounted in the left wing root (outside the cabin) and then back
> inside to my Facet aux pump mounted at 45 degrees on the inside of the left
> wing root (plans location) through a short compound half pretzel shaped piece
> of tubing. From there the system is conventional with a "T" for the priming
> solinoid and a fuel flow transducer ahead of the firewall.
>
> My reasoning is to have the large capacity filter in the Andair gascolator
> provide fuel filtering ahead of the aux pump, eliminating multiple fuel
> filters, and to locate the gascolator in a cool area and as low as possible
> in my tail dragger. My concern is whether the aux pump has enough suction to
> draw fuel through the unprimed gascolator, as would be the case if/when one
> has run a tank dry.
>
> I will really appreciate any comments or suggestions, especially from anyone
> who has experience with a similar installation.
>
> Harry Crosby
> Pleasanton, California
> RV-6, finish kit stuff
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
Subject: | Fuel System Plumbing Question |
Hi Harry,
I did close to what your planning.
L and R tanks to Andair fuel valve, but I went to the aux fuel pump mounted on
the wing spar (boy is that thing loud) then out to the left wing root area, then
up to the engine driven pump.
300 hours so far and everything works fine in my RV-6. I don't think I'd want
the gascolator before of the aux fuel pump. I'd rather push the fuel into the
gascolator, then try to draw it in. But then again I don't have any hard data
to say it wouldn't work....
You asked for comments.....and you got what you paid for ;-)
On a different subject, I had the most wonderful night flight yesterday. Just
a quick hour flight cruising around north of the LA basin at 7500' after the sun
went down. Nice and cool, the motor pulled back to 2300 rpm and 17", just
loafing around. Over the coast you could see the low clouds coming in, but the
lights of the Ventura were lighting up the underside of the clouds. Really pretty.
But the coolest part was when the moon would reflect out on the wing highlighting
the paint job. I caught myself thinking....."Man, that's pretty...and
I built this thing, too cool".
Keep pounding those rivets, it's SOOO worth it.
Laird RV-6
SoCal
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Thu, Aug 2, 2001 3:04 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fuel System Plumbing Question
All: I am considering the following arrangement of fuel system
components in my RV-6 and would appreciate any and all suggestions or
comments from the list.
In my planned installation fuel from both tanks goes direct to an Andair fuel
tank selector valve. Fuel out of the selector valve goes to an Andair
gascolator mounted in the left wing root (outside the cabin) and then back
inside to my Facet aux pump mounted at 45 degrees on the inside of the left
wing root (plans location) through a short compound half pretzel shaped piece
of tubing. From there the system is conventional with a "T" for the priming
solinoid and a fuel flow transducer ahead of the firewall.
My reasoning is to have the large capacity filter in the Andair gascolator
provide fuel filtering ahead of the aux pump, eliminating multiple fuel
filters, and to locate the gascolator in a cool area and as low as possible
in my tail dragger. My concern is whether the aux pump has enough suction to
draw fuel through the unprimed gascolator, as would be the case if/when one
has run a tank dry.
I will really appreciate any comments or suggestions, especially from anyone
who has experience with a similar installation.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Haywire" <haywire(at)telus.net> |
Subject: | AOA / LRI in ice |
Hi All;
Something that nobody has mentioned, but that I am curious about.
Each of these systems requires that you calibrate it to your specific
airfoil by performing a series of manoeuvres in a test flight. Once done,
these systems measure the aoa/lift of that specific airfoil shape. Now when
you encounter severe enough ice to approach a stall, the wing will have
accumulated enough ice to change shape and will not be the same airfoil that
your system is calibrated for.
Does this sound reasonable?
With that said I would like to add that I do own the PSS AOA sport model, to
be installed in my RV-9, and I do believe them to be an extremely valuable
tool.*
S. Todd Bartrim
13B RV-9
CF-STB (reserved)
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question |
Mike, I don't wish to offend you, but not filtering the fuel prior to the
pump is a mistake. I have personally inspected these pumps after failure, a
number of times. They are susceptible to malfunctioning due to very small
bits of debris, because of the small passage size and design of their
spring loaded check valve. Please filter the fuel before it goes into the
pump.
Garry, Caspers Dad
Mike Thompson wrote:
>
> --- HCRV6(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > All: I am considering the following arrangement of fuel system
>
> > components in my RV-6 and would appreciate any and all suggestions or
> > comments from the list.
>
>
> Harry,
>
> Am working that system now. I ran from the valve to the wing root, to
> the pump then to gascolator (both in the root area). Do you really
> expect large enough garbage in the fuel to foul the pump? I am not
> using an inline filter prior to the boost pump.
>
> I then run the lines from the root back into the cabin and up to a
> bulkhead elbow at the firewall. I wanted to get as many fuel
> connections out of the cabin as I could, and you're right - the
> components will be nice and cool out there. No blast tubes, no
> shields.
>
> Once under the cowl I tee to primer solenoid (upside down or rightside
> up) also to fuel flow sensor thence to mechanical pump.
>
> Aside from our boost pump / gascolator order we've got the same setup,
> which I unashamedly copy from flying RV's (-6's).
>
> I think both will work fine.
>
> Mike Thompson
> Austin, TX
> -6 N140RV (Reserved)
> Firewall Forward
>
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
I've just finished the airframe of the RV-6 and used a 5hp, three-cylinder,
60 gallon vertical tank rig situated in the unheated portion of the garage.
Then, by silver soldered 3/4" copper pipe, I fed the air through the false
wall and into the heated shop at the back of the garage. The compressor
people told me about this arrangement which involves compressing cool air
then running it into a heated space which reduces the relative humidity in
it. It seemed to work and water was not a problem during any painting
sessions. The local farm supply place( www.princessauto.com) sells automatic
tank moisture drains that open at around 8-12psi. I also bought their
1-into-3 splitter for running more than one tool without changing hoses. All
the air tools have "whips" on them(3'air lines) and I use an inline oiler at
the connection between the main hose and the whip. This way, the main hose
never has oil in it and can be hooked up directly to the HVLP gun. I tried
one of the cheap, clear plastic oilers but it didn't last a day at 100+psi.
Took it back to the industrial supply and bought a larger, heavier unit made
out of black-anodized aluminum and brass-hasn't leaked a drop or blown a
bubble in five years. Have to be careful not to bang it against the sheet
metal though...
Scott Jackson
Vancouver, B.C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Schlosser <kevinschlosser(at)msn.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: My new air compressor
>
> I've got the Campbell Hausfeld inline water filter. It's the
> smaller one about the size of a gascolator. That'll do right?
>
> What about tool oiling? I see oiling manifolds for house air rigs.
> I'm not sure if I want oil vapor injected into my air hoses if that's
> what these things do. I'd assume anyone that uses those has a
> separate hose for painting operations?
>
> This is my first attempt at using air powered tools, so I'd like to
> do things properly.
>
> As for the die grinder, I wonder if connecting the 11 gallon tank
> inline with the compressor's tank would help?
>
> Kevin
> -=-=-
> Looking forward to smashing rivets!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 8:37 AM
> To: kevinschlosser(at)msn.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: My new air compressor
>
>
> Kevin, no problem, thats overkill. The only real test for it will be your
> die grinder, just be sure you protect your air tools from water coming
> through the hose. The other test will be if you want to paint your plane
> yourself using that compressor. Other than that no problem.
>
> Eric
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Chris Good <chrisjgood(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Alternator problems |
Listers,
For the archive, I'd like to add my name to those who have had problems
with Van's 35A alternator. When I had this problem, I checked the archives
& found a number of people reporting failure around 200 hrs.
A couple of weeks ago, in the middle of a flight, my EIS-4000 flashed its
Big Red Light at me to indicate low voltage. I was able to reduce the load
& restore the voltage to its usual charging level. I later determined that
the alternator output was down to about 12 amps. In discussion with a few
people, I learned that these alternators probably have three pairs of
diodes. I suspect that one pair went some time ago, bringing the output to
24 amps, which I wouldn't even have noticed since the EIS-4000 does not
include any current monitoring. Then when another pair went, that dropped
it down to 12 amps. Of course maybe someone will tell me that alternators
don't work this way at all!
It has been hot in Wisconsin recently, probably 90 degrees the day I saw
the failure. I did have a blast tube installed, taking air from the right
cowl inlet to the back of the alternator.
I'm not too upset about the failure, since it lasted nearly 250 hrs & was a
cheap & easy option for my initial installation. Also I'm happy it didn't
fail completely & it didn't cause any diversions in flight.
At Oshkosh I purchased the 40 amp alternator from B&C. It's a very nicely
built unit, lighter than Van's, but of course quite a bit more
expensive. I had to extend the mounting arm slot 3/8" so that I could use
the existing Gates 7355 belt rather than the longer 7365 that was
supplied. For the moment, I'm continuing to use Van's adjustable regulator
& Bob Nuckolls' OV protection unit. The new installation works perfectly.
Regards,
Chris Good, http://www.rv.supermatrix.com
West Bend, WI
RV-6A N86CG, 245 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Chris Good <chrisjgood(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Folding Bikes in a 6A |
Listers,
There's been some recent discussion on Doug Reeve's World Wide Wing web
site about folding bikes. I wanted to let you know what worked for me.
In travelling with the RV, we've found several locations where bikes are
ideal. Places where a courtesy car is not available & a taxi isn't the
right answer for touring around. I started looking for the right bikes
about six months ago.
Three weeks ago we received the two Dahon Helios bikes with carrying
bags. These have 20" wheels, which are a significant improvement over the
16" wheels of the smaller folders. They have 7 speeds, primarily aluminum
frames, & weigh 23.8 lbs each. They fold & unfold in about 30 seconds.
http://www.dahon.com/helios-us.htm
When I originally checked out the folded dimensions given, it looked like
we couldn't fit two in the 6A, but I assumed that the folded packages were
not truly rectangular & that the two could be nested together
somehow! Well, they do fit in. I have the sliding canopy, & I have to
fold the seat backs forward to load them, but it works.
We bought the bikes & bags from Aircraft Spruce, because they had a
significantly better price than anyone else that I could find. They
weren't in the regular catalog that I had, but I found them in their
on-line ordering system:
13-00789 DAHON HELIOS (7-SPEED) $387.950
13-08360 DAHON CARRY BAG 20 BLACK $49.800
Note that this is a special order from Spruce & that they said we could not
return them.
The weekend before Oshkosh, we loaded the bikes & camping gear for a two
night trip to Washington Island, WI, for the fly-in/fish-boil. On checking
all the weights I found we had a 12 lb allowance for clothes to stay within
my 100 lb baggage limit - good thing I have the Titanium tie-downs (and a
130 lb wife)! The bikes seem to be well made & are easy & fun to ride. A
couple of friends, with a Cherokee, tried them out & will probably order a
pair.
I've put some photos of the bike on my web site:
http://www.rv.supermatrix.com/flying/misc/bikes.html
Regards,
Chris Good, http://www.rv.supermatrix.com
West Bend, WI
RV-6A N86CG, 245 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | efortner <efortner(at)vnet.net> |
Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
It will serve you well
Kevin Schlosser wrote:
>
> I was hoping to verify with you folks that my new air
> compressor will do the trick when it comes to building
> my RV soon.
>
> I actually bought it for something else, but RV's (as
> always) were in the back of my mind.
>
> The Old Compressor
> ==============
> I'm standing there on my deck with a new HVLP gun
> trying to spray semi-transparent stain with the worlds
> oldest air compressor. It was my father's before he
> went out and bought a sears compressor. It's a single
> cylinder oil-less with a washing machine motor pulley
> v-belt drive, mounted on a big oval LEAD plate. Geez
> it was heavy.
>
> It was getting hot after 1 hour of running continuous
> with a modified Grizzly Machinery 11 gallon tank and
> regulator. I had to stop at the end of every other
> pass with the gun to build up air reserves. At that
> rate, it would take me 2 weeks to do the deck.
>
> That's it, I need a new compressor!
>
> The New Compressor
> ===============
> My wife and I went to Home Depot and Lowes to see
> what they had and how much it cost. No time for
> mail order, it's this or nothing. I tried to order a 65
> gallon by 11hp upright model and they were out. The
> wife grinned since she thought I was going overkill again.
> The other choice was the Porter Cable 7 Hp by 25 Gal
> horizontal Cast iron dual piston oiled model. We shoved
> it in the one hour rental truck and took it home. We
> finished the deck that weekend.
>
> The best quote heard from my wife, who up until recently
> had problems with the idea of me building a plane... "Will
> you be able to use that on your airplane???"
>
> I nearly fell over. I guess she realizes I'm going to build
> this thing approval or not. Cool.
>
> So, 7 HP x 25 Gal Oiled, Will that do it?
>
> Kevin Schlosser
> -=< PropellerHead >=-
> Waiting for April to buy RV-7 Tail Kit
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
Subject: | Re: AOA / LRI in ice |
>
> Hi All;
> Something that nobody has mentioned, but that I am curious about.
>Each of these systems requires that you calibrate it to your specific
>airfoil by performing a series of manoeuvres in a test flight. Once done,
>these systems measure the aoa/lift of that specific airfoil shape. Now when
>you encounter severe enough ice to approach a stall, the wing will have
>accumulated enough ice to change shape and will not be the same airfoil that
>your system is calibrated for.
> Does this sound reasonable?
>With that said I would like to add that I do own the PSS AOA sport model, to
>be installed in my RV-9, and I do believe them to be an extremely valuable
>tool.*
>
>S. Todd Bartrim
You are 100% right. Add some ice and the AOA indicator is now pretty
much useless. But, you'll likely collect ice in cruise, at a speed
well above the stall speed, so you shouldn't stall it then.
Hopefully you can remember to add a few knots on approach if you
still have ice on the aircraft.
If you are collecting ice on the wing. you should be changing
altitudes right now, even if you have to declare an emergency to do
it. Thinner airfoils collect ice much faster than thick ones. So,
if you are seeing ice start to collect on the wings you probably
already have a lot of ice on the prop, and some ice on the HS and VS.
Take care,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engine Information |
You can go to...
http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/ad/ad_e.htm
It is a Canadian site but has all the ADs.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:24 AM
Subject: RV-List: Lycoming Engine Information
Hi Mike,
My O-320 D1A is a 1993 model first run and I've been trying to find any AD's
that are applicable to it with no luck. Because of the manufacture date, I
don't think the piston pin AD is a factor, it has Lycoming cylinders, not
Superior, the sintered metal oil pump shouldn't be a factor. The rest of the
AD's I can find are for earlier engines. Am I missing anything? Do you have
any suggestions for finding out for sure? (My local FBO is less than willing
to help--doesn't like helping experimental builders)
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question |
>
>Mike, I don't wish to offend you, but not filtering the fuel prior to the
>pump is a mistake. I have personally inspected these pumps after failure, a
>number of times. They are susceptible to malfunctioning due to very small
>bits of debris, because of the small passage size and design of their
>spring loaded check valve. Please filter the fuel before it goes into the
>pump.
>Garry, Caspers Dad
>
Garry,
Just wondering - can the Facet pumps shed debris into the fuel when
they fail? Could that debris cause grief in your carburetor? If so,
maybe it is better to have the gascolator after the pump than before
it. They engine will run a lot better with a failed electric pump
than it will with a mucked up carburetor.
Take care,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Panther Electronics |
St Cloud? You're kidding. I grew up there..it's about 30 minutes from me
and I could go check Panther out for you if you'd like.
Bill
-4
Orlando
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Bronson" <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 9:25 PM
Subject: RV-List: Panther Electronics
>
> Hi Folks, especially Floridians,
>
> Have any of you ever heard of or dealt with Panther Electronics of St.
> Cloud, FL? I checked the archives and found no posts, and they are not
> listed in the Yeller Pages. They make a headset whose mirophone is
> embedded in an earpiece, eliminating a traditional boom mike. Looks
> interesting, though it's a bit pricey. Their web site is
> www.pantherelectronics.com. They feature a guy who uses this headset in a
> Long EZ (yeah, I know) on their site. Anyone know anything about them? I
> have e-mailed them and not received any replies.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim
> Pittsburgh
> Future builder
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
Subject: | Fuel System Plumbing Question |
This is specific to the airflow performance fuel pumps with injected
engines. If you have any question you should call Vans and airflow
performance to verify.
If you are using an airflow performance fuel filter, they told me to install
it before the fuel pump, as shown in Vans diagram (at least for the RV-8).
BUT! If you are using their fuel pump with the andair gascolator, they told
me to install the gascolator AFTER the fuel pump. Reason being the filter
area is smaller and its easier to "push" fuel through it than "pull" fuel
through it.
Matthew
8A canopy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel System Plumbing Question
>
>Mike, I don't wish to offend you, but not filtering the fuel prior to the
>pump is a mistake. I have personally inspected these pumps after failure, a
>number of times. They are susceptible to malfunctioning due to very small
>bits of debris, because of the small passage size and design of their
>spring loaded check valve. Please filter the fuel before it goes into the
>pump.
>Garry, Caspers Dad
>
Garry,
Just wondering - can the Facet pumps shed debris into the fuel when
they fail? Could that debris cause grief in your carburetor? If so,
maybe it is better to have the gascolator after the pump than before
it. They engine will run a lot better with a failed electric pump
than it will with a mucked up carburetor.
Take care,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
It appears to be time for the annual LRI discussion. We hit this topic
in Nov 98, Oct 99, Mar 00, and now Aug 01. It's an interesting topic.
I've found having an audible stall warning system to be invaluable.
On a couple of occasions I've allowed my attention to wander from
airspeed, got slow while down low (circling at the direction of the
tower, while looking for traffic), and had the stall warning activate. I
think it can be a life saver in "low and slow" situations.
The Piper style stall tab warns of stall based on air flow change that
occurs before the wing stalls. True AoA systems (Rite Angle, PSS,
others), if equipped with an audible device, can sound warning of a
stall based on the fact that a given wing stalls at the same AoA,
regardless of airspeed. These are well understood principles.
The situation isn't so clear with the LRI. Way back on 28 Nov 98 Peter
Bennett posted a well thought out mathematical analysis (available in
the archives, search for "pbennett & LRI") that questions whether the
LRI gives the same stall warning in all weight and G loading
conditions. Peter's analysis is straight forward, and convinced me that
the LRI web site's claims of "Reliable under all conditions of weight...
flap position... angle of bank" are suspect. To the best of my
knowledge, nobody has published rigorous flight test data to support
the LRI claims. One acquaintance of mine "rolled his own" LRI type
device (based on the drawings and info in the LRI patent) and
reported that at high G loads the unit gave an inappropriately high
indication of "lift reserve" when the aircraft stalled. That data (not
from a commercially produced LRI unit) seems to support Peter's 1998
analysis. I'd sure like to see some actual flight test data showing LRI
indication vs stall speed across a broad range of aircraft weights and
G loading.
By the way, builders can make and install a Piper-style audible stall
warning system for the cost of a switch, some aluminum, and a couple
of small screws and bolts. Pictures and measurements are at my web
site, http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a/stall.htm.
Tim Lewis
Just returned from OSH, with 260 hours on RV-6A N47TD
******
Tim Lewis -- Fairfax, VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
******
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Subject: | My new air compressor |
Why depressurize?
I have a cutoff at the tank that I close when not it use. The line will
eventually leak down to a neutral pressure after several hours. The 60 gal
tank stays pressurized at ~130#. Is this bad form?
I also have a valve at the bottom that I crack open for a couple seconds
once a week or so to drain the couple teaspoons of condensation.
Larry Bowen
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
[snip]
> I also need a quieter method of depressurizing the system at night.
> Scares my wife and probably annoys my neighbors.
>
> -=< PropellerHead >=-
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Alternator problems |
Chris,
This is good information. I have Van's alternator too, but not flying yet.
I have been so paranoid about alternators that I have installed the
Loadmeter instrument from B&C that monitors and gives constant readings on
the alternator output and also the battery's condition. I have installed
the essential bus that bypasses the alternator in emergency situations.
Your alternator problem would have been easily indicated on the Loadmeter.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
RV6 ...wrestling oil cooler
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Good <chrisjgood(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 6:19 PM
Subject: RV-List: Alternator problems
>
> Listers,
>
> For the archive, I'd like to add my name to those who have had problems
> with Van's 35A alternator. When I had this problem, I checked the
archives
> & found a number of people reporting failure around 200 hrs.
>
> A couple of weeks ago, in the middle of a flight, my EIS-4000 flashed its
> Big Red Light at me to indicate low voltage. I was able to reduce the
load
> & restore the voltage to its usual charging level. I later determined
that
> the alternator output was down to about 12 amps. In discussion with a few
> people, I learned that these alternators probably have three pairs of
> diodes. I suspect that one pair went some time ago, bringing the output
to
> 24 amps, which I wouldn't even have noticed since the EIS-4000 does not
> include any current monitoring. Then when another pair went, that dropped
> it down to 12 amps. Of course maybe someone will tell me that alternators
> don't work this way at all!
>
> It has been hot in Wisconsin recently, probably 90 degrees the day I saw
> the failure. I did have a blast tube installed, taking air from the right
> cowl inlet to the back of the alternator.
>
> I'm not too upset about the failure, since it lasted nearly 250 hrs & was
a
> cheap & easy option for my initial installation. Also I'm happy it didn't
> fail completely & it didn't cause any diversions in flight.
>
> At Oshkosh I purchased the 40 amp alternator from B&C. It's a very nicely
> built unit, lighter than Van's, but of course quite a bit more
> expensive. I had to extend the mounting arm slot 3/8" so that I could use
> the existing Gates 7355 belt rather than the longer 7365 that was
> supplied. For the moment, I'm continuing to use Van's adjustable
regulator
> & Bob Nuckolls' OV protection unit. The new installation works perfectly.
> Regards,
>
> Chris Good, http://www.rv.supermatrix.com
> West Bend, WI
> RV-6A N86CG, 245 hrs
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "dave ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
Is bigger better? I'm looking at the Niagra cooler. Is a 7row or 9 row
the correct cooler size for the O360A1A?
Dave Ford
RV6 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Subject: | Reasons to use AOA devices |
For those who looked at the Dynon EFIS-D10 at OSH, did you notice how the
AOA worked on it? Did it have a probe like the LRI or a pin-hole like the
PSS? Any guess how it would compare to the LRI and PSS functionally? Does
it talk or flash at you?
Larry Bowen
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question |
--- Garry LeGare wrote:
> <"versadek"@earthlink.net>
>
> Mike, I don't wish to offend you, but not filtering the fuel prior to
> the pump is a mistake.
No offence.. actually not a bad idea - costs little and what can it
hurt?
Although just as I hit the send button to Harry's note this afternoon,
it occurred to me that my system is no different from what Van's
recommends, just the components are in the wing root as opposed to his
pump in the cabin and gascolator on the firewall.
No in-line filter in the plans. Curiouser and curiouser...
Still something to look into.
Thanks.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
rv-list
Hmm, went to try and order some more oops rivets from Van's, the
NAS1097AD3-3.5 and cohorts. They are not on their website anymore.
They still seem to have the NAS1097AD4-X.X series
tried Aircraft Spruce, no luck either. Avery seems to be out of the
rivet business also. Wicks search engine came up blank.
I got some left but would like to refill the bin so to say.
Anybody know a place to buy NAS1097AD3 rivets in quanteties less than 1
lbs ??
Thanks
Gert
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ross A. Scroggs" <rscroggs(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I just received 1/4lb of the NAS1097AD3-3.5 rivets from Vans, last week. On
the web page that shows the rivets are instructions on how to order in a
smaller quantity than 1 LB. It did work.
Ross Scroggs
Conyers, Ga.
RV4, Emp.
----- Original Message -----
From: gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:21 PM
Subject: RV-List: Oops rivets
>
> Hmm, went to try and order some more oops rivets from Van's, the
> NAS1097AD3-3.5 and cohorts. They are not on their website anymore.
> They still seem to have the NAS1097AD4-X.X series
>
> tried Aircraft Spruce, no luck either. Avery seems to be out of the
> rivet business also. Wicks search engine came up blank.
>
> I got some left but would like to refill the bin so to say.
>
>
> Anybody know a place to buy NAS1097AD3 rivets in quanteties less than 1
> lbs ??
>
> Thanks
>
> Gert
> --
> is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: Subaru Engines - Rotary Engine |
Subject: RV-List: Subaru Engines
>
> With all due respect to those considering Sub engines, are you not
persuing
> "false economy". I'll preface this thought with the following comment. I
> DO believe that ..... BIG SNIP
> If I were 65 yrs old and considered my RV to be the last plane I'd own,
I'd
> probably build it with a Sub or a Mazda rotary.
>
> Electronic Ignition
> Fuel Injection
> Liquid Cooling
> Cheap parts
> Subaru Reliability (12" long crank with 5 bearings = bulletproof)
>
> Or .. If I intended to fly the plane 4000 hours during the time I owned
it,
> I might use a converted auto engine. In that case, the lower maintenance
> costs might outweigh the poorer resale.
>
> But as it is, my plane is the second largest investment I have ever made
in
> my life, and its resale value is not inconsequential. One of the
> justifications I have made to myself is that if I ever needed to sell my
RV,
> I could get out of it what I put into it. Although that is really a
fantasy
> when you consider ongoing costs, it is closer to reality when the plane
has
> a standard engine.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Don Mei
> RV-4 N92CT
> 3B9 - Chester, CT
Don,
Many of your points are well taken. I personally believe the Subaru is one
of the better auto engines for a conversion - for aircraft requiring
100-140HP. Running the higher rpm required for Higher HP from one is
pushing it - in my opinion. I fly a Mazda Rotary Powered Rv-6A with
Electronic Ignition, Fuel Injection, Liquid Cooling , with - Oh so cheap
parts (compared to a Lycoming), and extraordinary reliability and
robustness. The rotary loafs at 5500-6000 rpm and can fly all day at that
rpm (and considerably higher). Magnitude of inertial loads are much lower
(i.e. no pistons yanking back and forth on a connecting rod) also, no high
stress parts such as camshafts, valves, valve springs, push rods, rocker
arms, connecting rods, rod bolts, etc. etc. to break. While I think the
Subaru is a good engine for 120-140HP, I think a rotary is a better engine
for 150-200 HP requirements. Yes, you can get three rotor engins putting
out 250-300HP and turbo charged 2 rotors for 200-250HP. But, most
conversions are currently flying without turbos, cheaper, less complicated
and lighter, but the turbo versions are beginning to show up. We all want
more POWER!{:>)
However, I do agree - that the resale value would undoubtedly be lower than
with a certified engine (well, for one reason a zero time rotary engine can
be had for $3600 or less if you rebuild it yourself - so cheaper to
install). So if you plan on reselling it and getting maximum value then
probably better to install a Lycoming.
On the other hand, I am 61 and do not plan on selling my baby {:>) - too
much fun to fly and very smooth behind the rotary. There is now a firewall
forward Rotary kit from PowerSport which is very nicely engineered and
tested. But, most rotary's flying (10 in RVs so far) are homebrewed.
Best Regards
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question |
Harry,
You might want to double check the instructions for the installation of your fuel
flow meter. Mine said to install the transducer AFTER the mechanical pump.
Dave
HCRV6(at)aol.com wrote:
From there the system is conventional with a "T" for the priming
solinoid and a fuel flow transducer ahead of the firewall.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: Speaking of FAA paperwork |
It is certainly clear that responses from FSDOs on the new "Major
Modification" option is varied. Our local FSDO (Charlotte, Douglas
International, NC) was very helpful, told me what paper work I needed to
fill out, pointed to the pubs on how to fill them out. Told me about their
schedule (a pending out of state school) and offered to come out before
going off to the school and inspect the aircraft and approve the amendment
to my operating limitations. I guess whether they inspect or not is up to
the local FSDO, but my guy just wanted to baseline the aircraft before
issuing the mod. Did not cost me a penny.
Now I am legal to do major mods provided I adhere to the new instructions
for testing and document such. I've even formally notified my insurance
company in writing with a copy of the new operating limitation and no squawk
from them. Actually, don't know what they could do other than cancel my
coverage as I am fully in compliance with the FAA requirements.
I had to get a DAR when I finished the aircraft (Washington DC area FSDO),
the guys there were willing but their schedule simply pushed it too far out
into the future, so I went with a DAR. So I have had good fortunate from
both FSDO and DAR.
Just wanted to give the Feds a pat on the back where deserved - as they very
frequently get the boot a bit lower {:>)
Best Regards
Ed Anderson
Matthews, NC
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | doyal plute <dplute(at)onemain.com> |
I am fabricating the primer system on my 0-360 engine and I am trying to
find AN
xxxx-01 copper tubing to connect to the AN4022-1 discharge nipples (
this tubing is soldered into the AN800-2 union cone)
Does anyone know of a source for this? (need about 6 ft.)
Sincerely:
Doyal
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Folding Bikes in a 6A |
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Folding Bikes in a 6A
Thread-Index: AcEbtx+c42121IenEdWAOQAIxwleHwAElVvw
From: | "Reeves, Doug" <Douglas.Reeves(at)archongroup.com> |
Great post, Chris (and nice photo of them in your plane).
I've talked with the folks at www.bikefriday.com (one of Dahon's
competitors) about a month ago and they told me they are currently
working on an 'airplane version' of one of their models that is
projected to have a total weight of 19 lbs (don't remember the gear/tire
dimensions, sorry). I'll probably be evaluating one of the early
prototypes and will more than likely end up ordering two of them.
Having said that.....I think it's great that the folding bikes are
getting more popular (I've even seen pics of one person who got (2)
folding bikes in a RV-8). I hope we get to meet someday at a fly-in so
we can compair each other's bikes.
I moved the pictures of the bike I was testing to
http://www.archongroup.com/reeves/foldingbike.htm if anyone hasn't seen
them (this model weighed in at 27 lbs I think).
When I hear something I'll let you know.
Best,
Doug Reeves
http://www.vansaircraft.net
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Good [mailto:chrisjgood(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 6:02 PM
Subject: RV-List: Folding Bikes in a 6A
Listers,
There's been some recent discussion on Doug Reeve's World Wide Wing web
site about folding bikes. I wanted to let you know what worked for me.
In travelling with the RV, we've found several locations where bikes are
ideal. Places where a courtesy car is not available & a taxi isn't the
right answer for touring around. I started looking for the right bikes
about six months ago.
Three weeks ago we received the two Dahon Helios bikes with carrying
bags. These have 20" wheels, which are a significant improvement over
the
16" wheels of the smaller folders. They have 7 speeds, primarily
aluminum
frames, & weigh 23.8 lbs each. They fold & unfold in about 30 seconds.
http://www.dahon.com/helios-us.htm
When I originally checked out the folded dimensions given, it looked
like
we couldn't fit two in the 6A, but I assumed that the folded packages
were
not truly rectangular & that the two could be nested together
somehow! Well, they do fit in. I have the sliding canopy, & I have to
fold the seat backs forward to load them, but it works.
We bought the bikes & bags from Aircraft Spruce, because they had a
significantly better price than anyone else that I could find. They
weren't in the regular catalog that I had, but I found them in their
on-line ordering system:
13-00789 DAHON HELIOS (7-SPEED) $387.950
13-08360 DAHON CARRY BAG 20 BLACK $49.800
Note that this is a special order from Spruce & that they said we could
not
return them.
The weekend before Oshkosh, we loaded the bikes & camping gear for a two
night trip to Washington Island, WI, for the fly-in/fish-boil. On
checking
all the weights I found we had a 12 lb allowance for clothes to stay
within
my 100 lb baggage limit - good thing I have the Titanium tie-downs (and
a
130 lb wife)! The bikes seem to be well made & are easy & fun to ride.
A
couple of friends, with a Cherokee, tried them out & will probably order
a
pair.
I've put some photos of the bike on my web site:
http://www.rv.supermatrix.com/flying/misc/bikes.html
Regards,
Chris Good, http://www.rv.supermatrix.com
West Bend, WI
RV-6A N86CG, 245 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Oil cooler size |
>
>Is bigger better? I'm looking at the Niagra cooler. Is a 7row or 9 row
>the correct cooler size for the O360A1A?
>
>Dave Ford
>RV6 finishing
In my opinion, YES, install the larger one IF you can make it fit. During
the heat of summer, here in the southwestern Rockies, that thin, hot air
does very little to strip heat from an oil cooler, so the more surface area
you can expose that steamin' oil to, the better. Your results may vary of
course, as all airplane/engine/oil cooler installations behave differently.
I'm doing OK with a seven row, behind cylinder #4, and a cool collar heat
sink on the oil filter. I seldom go over 210 now, and the temp goes up
slower now with the cool collar. It gives me more time on those climbouts
from a high altitude airport after a quick fuel stop. Once I get the
machine up to 9 or 10 thousand feet and push the nose over to get some
airspeed, it comes back to 180-190 within a few minutes.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
O-360/Sensenich 72FM-83"
240 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Chris Good <chrisjgood(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Primer lines |
>
>I am fabricating the primer system on my 0-360 engine and I am trying to
>find AN
>xxxx-01 copper tubing to connect to the AN4022-1 discharge nipples (
>this tubing is soldered into the AN800-2 union cone)
>Does anyone know of a source for this? (need about 6 ft.)
>Sincerely:
>Doyal
Doyal,
Van's has it in their on-line catalog in the hardware section:
CT0-125OD Soft Copper 1/8" $0.50 per ft.
Aircraft Spruce also:
03-40900 COPPER TUBING 1/8 X .030 $1.250/ft (10 ft minumum)
Regards,
Chris Good, http://www.rv.supermatrix.com
West Bend, WI
RV-6A N86CG, 245 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
Listers,
We just returned from flying our 6 to Osh then to Ohio and back to
California. The trip was great but I have a couple of observations that
might be of interest to the group.
First, we lost a mag on takeoff from Goodland KS. It was kind of a non
event since the FBO had the parts to fix my Bendix mag. I'm using the
"shower of sparks" mags that came with my used 0-360-A1D and have always
said that when one of them went belly up I'd replace it with an
electronic ignition. Well, now I'm re-thinking that idea because if it
had been an electronic ignition that quit in Goodland I'd probably still
be sitting there waiting for a new one since they wouldn't have been
able to fix it. As it was, we only had a few hours delay and made it to
Osh on time.
The other thing that I discovered is that many of the AWOS's across the
country are now on NAV frequency's. This works out just fine for those
of us that have NAV radios but a lot of folks these days are installing
COM only radios and using GPS for navigation and that means that you
won't be able to listen to the AWOS at some airports.
All in all the flight was fantastic! There was rotten weather all across
the country but it just kind of opened up ahead of us for the entire
flight. I also had a failure of my "Van's" alternator but it started
working again.
What a GREAT airplane!
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
Subject: | Fuel System Plumbing Question |
Hey Garry,
Of those failed pumps that you have inspected, how many have a failure mode where
they wouldn't flow fuel once they died?
If it doesn't fail closed then I'd say it's ok if you fail one once in a while,
as it is a secondary pump. You'd have to loose both pumps before the things
get real quite. If it could fail closed, then you have the classic single point
failure. But then again, I've heard that the mechanical pump can fail in such
a manor as to restrict flow. How many of us run a parallel line to bypass
the mechanical pump in case of failure? Not many, I'd guess.
Of course I'm just rationalizing here because I don't have a filter before the
aux pump.
Laird
See you Saturday to inspect Casper.
Mike, I don't wish to offend you, but not filtering the fuel prior to the
pump is a mistake. I have personally inspected these pumps after failure, a
number of times. They are susceptible to malfunctioning due to very small
bits of debris, because of the small passage size and design of their
spring loaded check valve. Please filter the fuel before it goes into the
pump.
Garry, Caspers Dad
Mike Thompson wrote:
>
> --- HCRV6(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > All: I am considering the following arrangement of fuel system
>
> > components in my RV-6 and would appreciate any and all suggestions or
> > comments from the list.
>
>
> Harry,
>
> Am working that system now. I ran from the valve to the wing root, to
> the pump then to gascolator (both in the root area). Do you really
> expect large enough garbage in the fuel to foul the pump? I am not
> using an inline filter prior to the boost pump.
>
> I then run the lines from the root back into the cabin and up to a
> bulkhead elbow at the firewall. I wanted to get as many fuel
> connections out of the cabin as I could, and you're right - the
> components will be nice and cool out there. No blast tubes, no
> shields.
>
> Once under the cowl I tee to primer solenoid (upside down or rightside
> up) also to fuel flow sensor thence to mechanical pump.
>
> Aside from our boost pump / gascolator order we've got the same setup,
> which I unashamedly copy from flying RV's (-6's).
>
> I think both will work fine.
>
> Mike Thompson
> Austin, TX
> -6 N140RV (Reserved)
> Firewall Forward
>
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com> |
Subject: | Blue Mountain Avionics (Dynon thread) |
Regarding the speed of the Dynon unit (and others like it) ...
I am of the view that major s/w "apps" start out running slowly (untuned
algorithms, debugging code, bloated code, etc) and then gets faster
(tune-ups, tighter code etc and then gets slower again (feature creep for
the platform etc.).
Take a look at the delay on the button press acknowledgement on the UPSAT
MX-20. They have added features and I think are coming up to a point where a
faster CPU would REALLY help.
Soooo.... Yes, I would be a bit concerned if the starting system does not
get rid of its slowness (to me) because I think there is a future phase
wherein it would be slower.
Now if someone has not started their RV panel yet, I suspect that they would
have the luxury of waiting and seeing what "release 2 " looks like.
James .... just an opinion
p.s. I do think the unit has LOTS of potential though!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bernie Kerr
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Blue Mountain Avionics (Dynon thread)
Weird , we are: thinking about PANEL AGAIN AND MY AIRPLANE HAS BARELY BEEN
FLYING A YEAR!!
Ken DeGraff of Sensenich props ( a practical sort of geek) went over and
looked at the Dynon display for me and he talked about the flicker. It was
not noticeable enough to bother me visually. Is there another operational
concern that it is too slow to use as a flight instrument??
Bernie Kerr, 6A, S Fla
____________________________________
"
>
> I saw them .
>
> I got yhe impression from them though that they are still a bit off.
>
> Did you notice the flicker? The refresh rate was seemingly about 15 Hz at
> best. They *claim* that they can run at 24-30 Hz, but since they did not
do
> it at the show, I was not convinced as of the moment.
>
> Now if they either tighten up the s/w for more speed or add a faster
> processor then I think it will be a nice device. Didn't spend much time on
> the heat pitot/solid state gyro combo though as I was trying to get them
to
> give me the strsight scoop on the flicker.
---------------------------------------------------
> Wondering about the panel components ... AGAIN!!
---------------------------------------------->
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question |
Kevin,
The plastic parts inside the square Facet pump ( check valves & seats) where
changed about 15 years ago, after a rash of Eze's had problems running auto
fuel. I believe (don't know for sure) the new parts are Nylon and there have
been no issues with the valves or seats, since the change.
The only other parts in the pump that might be of concern, are the two check
valve springs, check valve retainers, brass piston wear sleeve and the piston
itself . None of these parts have a history of failure, and in analyzing these
parts, gauling of the sleeve and piston (caused by running dry for long
periods), is really the only potential mechanical problems.
Electrical component failures, especially the switching transistor are more of
a
problem. The older version of this pump had an externally mounted transistor,
and they seemed to have a higher failure rate then the new style internal
transistor pump. I personally have had two of the old style and one of the new
design pumps stop because of transistor failure.
I believe however, contaminated fuel is more of a problem. A piece of building
debris, that could easily pass through the slots, that we cut in the fuel pickup
tubes, could become jammed between the piston and it's wear sleeve, or it could
become lodged between a check valve and its seat, and stop the pumping action.
I have inspected many of these pumps ( because they had stopped pumping) and
found the check valves fouled with bits of metal, plastic, fiberglass strands,
tiny rocks (sand) and rust flakes.
I know there are a lot of RV Series aircraft flying without a filter in front of
the pump. But the primary pump on most, is engine driven. The Facet is only used
on start up, take off, landing and switching tanks, so it's not critical, or is
it?
Garry, Caspers Dad
Kevin Horton wrote:
> --
>
> Garry,
>
> Just wondering - can the Facet pumps shed debris into the fuel when
> they fail? Could that debris cause grief in your carburetor? If so,
> maybe it is better to have the gascolator after the pump than before
> it. They engine will run a lot better with a failed electric pump
> than it will with a mucked up carburetor.
>
> Take care,
>
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I just ordered a bunch of NAS1097AD4-X.X rivets this morning from Van's. My
understanding is that the bodies of these fill an AD4 sized hole but have
the head like a AD3. Is this correct? Or should I have ordered NAS1097AD3
rivets to have an AD3 head?
Brian Woodruff
Hillsboro, OR
RV9A Emp ready to rivet!
I just received 1/4lb of the NAS1097AD3-3.5 rivets from Vans, last week. On
the web page that shows the rivets are instructions on how to order in a
smaller quantity than 1 LB. It did work.
Ross Scroggs
Conyers, Ga.
RV4, Emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question |
Mike, glad I didn't offend you. You see I have shares in the company that
makes the fuel filters and I'm just trying to pay for Casper's addiction to
100 LL. No in line filter in the plans you say. Can't be, Van's plans with
something missing, please say it aint so.
Garry
Mike Thompson wrote:
>
> --- Garry LeGare wrote:
> > <"versadek"@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Mike, I don't wish to offend you, but not filtering the fuel prior to
> > the pump is a mistake.
>
> No offence.. actually not a bad idea - costs little and what can it
> hurt?
> Although just as I hit the send button to Harry's note this afternoon,
> it occurred to me that my system is no different from what Van's
> recommends, just the components are in the wing root as opposed to his
> pump in the cabin and gascolator on the firewall.
>
> No in-line filter in the plans. Curiouser and curiouser...
> Still something to look into.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mike Thompson
> Austin, TX
> -6 N140RV (Reserved)
> Firewall Forward
>
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question |
TWO, I used BIG letters because they were important ones. Let me put it this way,
THE ENGINE STOPPED. And yes I agree with you, for true redundancy a parallel
system would be ideal.
If the engine is running at say cruise RPM, there is a good chance that the engine
pump will pull most stuff through the Facet pump and then it can plug the
engine driven pump or the screen in the carb.
Darn, the more I think of it the more I think I'll put in a inline filter before
the Facet pump that way it will protect the engine pump and the carb. OH, I
already did, didn't I.
Garry, Caspers Dad,
Just try to make a few bucks selling fuel filters.
"Owens, Laird" wrote:
>
> Hey Garry,
>
> Of those failed pumps that you have inspected, how many have a failure mode where
they wouldn't flow fuel once they died?
>
> If it doesn't fail closed then I'd say it's ok if you fail one once in a while,
as it is a secondary pump. You'd have to loose both pumps before the things
get real quite. If it could fail closed, then you have the classic single point
failure. But then again, I've heard that the mechanical pump can fail in
such a manor as to restrict flow. How many of us run a parallel line to bypass
the mechanical pump in case of failure? Not many, I'd guess.
>
> Of course I'm just rationalizing here because I don't have a filter before the
aux pump.
>
> Laird
> See you Saturday to inspect Casper.
>
>
> Mike, I don't wish to offend you, but not filtering the fuel prior to the
> pump is a mistake. I have personally inspected these pumps after failure, a
> number of times. They are susceptible to malfunctioning due to very small
> bits of debris, because of the small passage size and design of their
> spring loaded check valve. Please filter the fuel before it goes into the
> pump.
> Garry, Caspers Dad
>
> Mike Thompson wrote:
>
> >
> > --- HCRV6(at)aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > All: I am considering the following arrangement of fuel system
> >
> > > components in my RV-6 and would appreciate any and all suggestions or
> > > comments from the list.
> >
> >
> > Harry,
> >
> > Am working that system now. I ran from the valve to the wing root, to
> > the pump then to gascolator (both in the root area). Do you really
> > expect large enough garbage in the fuel to foul the pump? I am not
> > using an inline filter prior to the boost pump.
> >
> > I then run the lines from the root back into the cabin and up to a
> > bulkhead elbow at the firewall. I wanted to get as many fuel
> > connections out of the cabin as I could, and you're right - the
> > components will be nice and cool out there. No blast tubes, no
> > shields.
> >
> > Once under the cowl I tee to primer solenoid (upside down or rightside
> > up) also to fuel flow sensor thence to mechanical pump.
> >
> > Aside from our boost pump / gascolator order we've got the same setup,
> > which I unashamedly copy from flying RV's (-6's).
> >
> > I think both will work fine.
> >
> > Mike Thompson
> > Austin, TX
> > -6 N140RV (Reserved)
> > Firewall Forward
> >
> > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Primer lines |
Doyal,
I bought all of mine from Wicks. I wanted to incorporate 2 of the AN804-2D
fittings to attach the primer lines to, but they are not available any
longer. These fittings can be clamped with an Adel clamp and the copper
tubes ran from there. Go to Chris Good's Web site at
http://rv.supermatrix.com/ and look under his engine section and you will
see a picture of this.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
RV6
----- Original Message -----
From: doyal plute <dplute(at)onemain.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:07 PM
Subject: RV-List: Primer lines
>
> I am fabricating the primer system on my 0-360 engine and I am trying to
> find AN
> xxxx-01 copper tubing to connect to the AN4022-1 discharge nipples (
> this tubing is soldered into the AN800-2 union cone)
> Does anyone know of a source for this? (need about 6 ft.)
> Sincerely:
> Doyal
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
>
>I just ordered a bunch of NAS1097AD4-X.X rivets this morning from Van's. My
>understanding is that the bodies of these fill an AD4 sized hole but have
>the head like a AD3. Is this correct? Or should I have ordered NAS1097AD3
>rivets to have an AD3 head?
>
>Brian Woodruff
Brian,
The 4 in that part number refers to the diameter of the hole the
rivet needs. So, it will fill an AD4 sized hole. Those rivets are
wonderful things to fix the occasional mess up when drilling out
rivets. The AD3 sized ones are great for holding plate nuts - the
small head means you can countersink quite thin material nicely.
Take care,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Wes" <whays(at)camalott.com> |
Subject: | Re: Oil cooler size |
Dave,
I think a lot depends on where you live. In West Texas I don't think you can
get one big enough for the summer.
I installed the largest Positech and have cooling problems. This cooler is
known to not be as efficient as the SW. Brian Denk did some good work on
this.
However, At OSH, I visited with the Positech folks about my cooling problems
and they said that they had heard about the problems on the RV's and had
re-designed their coolers to increase the airflow by 50%. They also offered
to replace my cooler with the new design at no charge.
I was going to change to the equivalent SW cooler (1099?) but I thought I
would wait until I have a chance to try the new Positech to see if it would
be more efficient.
Actually my temps have never gotten above the max even on the hottest days,
however they really do climb when taxiing back after landing on the days the
temps are 100+, or when I am having to fly slower (like going into OSH at
90k). After landing and taxiing back to parking at OSH, the oil temp climbed
to 112C (233F) before shutdown.
As long as I keep the speed up, the temps stay well within the range.
Normal operating temps at cruise are between 85C (185F) and 97C (206F) which
is well within the normal range. However if changing the cooler can reduce
the temps 10% (I don't know if that is realistic or not) I will feel much
more comfortable during the hot summer months. I have a cockpit adjustable
gate that worked very well to keep the temps higher last winter when I was
flying off the time. No problem keeping the temps in the 85C to 95C range
even on the coldest days.
Anyway, if Positech sends the cooler I will post the results after the
installation since that will be the only thing I will change. If they don't
send the cooler, I will post that also. I have to admit that they seemed
very up front about the cooler's problems and expressed a great deal of
interest in fixing it and getting the old coolers off the planes and out of
the system.
If any of you good folks have any other suggestions I would appreciate your
thoughts. I will check the vernatherm valve at the next oil change coming up
in the next few hours.
So what say ye o wise ones?
Keep your airspeed up!!
Wes Hays
N8444WB
148 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Wes" <whays(at)camalott.com> |
Subject: | Re: Oil cooler size |
RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk"
I'm doing OK with a seven row, behind cylinder #4, and a cool collar heat
sink on the oil filter
Brian,
Can you tell me more about the "cool collar heat sink" for the oil filter
and where to get one?
Thanks,
Wes Hays
RV6-A
N844WB
Winters, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Subject: | Piper style electric stall warning switch |
Tim,
Thanks for the link to the photos. Do you have a parts list for this device?
Steve Soule
RV-6A first engine start yesterday
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message-----
By the way, builders can make and install a Piper-style audible stall
warning system for the cost of a switch, some aluminum, and a couple
of small screws and bolts. Pictures and measurements are at my web
site, http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a/stall.htm.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Subject: | Re: Primer lines |
Most hardware stores also have 1/8" copper tubing.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Good" <chrisjgood(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Primer lines
>
>I am fabricating the primer system on my 0-360 engine and I am trying to
>find AN
>xxxx-01 copper tubing to connect to the AN4022-1 discharge nipples (
>this tubing is soldered into the AN800-2 union cone)
>Does anyone know of a source for this? (need about 6 ft.)
>Sincerely:
>Doyal
Doyal,
Van's has it in their on-line catalog in the hardware section:
CT0-125OD Soft Copper 1/8" $0.50 per ft.
Aircraft Spruce also:
03-40900 COPPER TUBING 1/8 X .030 $1.250/ft (10 ft minumum)
Regards,
Chris Good, http://www.rv.supermatrix.com
West Bend, WI
RV-6A N86CG, 245 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question |
Garry,
You might want to run some tests before selecting an in line filter.
I've been told that many inline filters won't flow anything at all if
they get contaminated with water. Water in the fuel is a fairly
common problem in aircraft, so you need to have a fuel system design
that is tolerant of it. The gascolator is great in this regard,
because it just lets the water collect in the bottom of the bowl, but
it continues to pass fuel.
I know there are some RVs flying with in line filters. Can anyone
share any test results showing how the filter handles water in the
fuel? If you've found a filter that continues to flow fuel after
swallowing a big slug of water, please tell us which filter it is.
A Facet pump failure is not a big deal, as the engine driven pump
will continue to do the job. I would hate to create a new failure
mode that could stop the engine when all I was trying to do was make
the Facet pump a bit more reliable.
I've been told that one of the biggest cause of engine failures in
the test flight phase is poorly thought out fuel system
"improvements". So, be sure to do a proper ground and flight test
program of any "improvements" you want to make to Van's design. His
design has a very good service history.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
>
>TWO, I used BIG letters because they were important ones. Let me put
>it this way, THE ENGINE STOPPED. And yes I agree with you, for
>true redundancy a parallel system would be ideal.
>If the engine is running at say cruise RPM, there is a good chance
>that the engine pump will pull most stuff through the Facet pump and
>then it can plug the engine driven pump or the screen in the carb.
>Darn, the more I think of it the more I think I'll put in a inline
>filter before the Facet pump that way it will protect the engine
>pump and the carb. OH, I already did, didn't I.
>Garry, Caspers Dad,
>Just try to make a few bucks selling fuel filters.
>
>
>"Owens, Laird" wrote:
>
>>
>> Hey Garry,
>>
>> Of those failed pumps that you have inspected, how many have a
>>failure mode where they wouldn't flow fuel once they died?
>>
>> If it doesn't fail closed then I'd say it's ok if you fail one
>>once in a while, as it is a secondary pump. You'd have to loose
>>both pumps before the things get real quite. If it could fail
>>closed, then you have the classic single point failure. But then
>>again, I've heard that the mechanical pump can fail in such a manor
>>as to restrict flow. How many of us run a parallel line to bypass
>>the mechanical pump in case of failure? Not many, I'd guess.
>>
>> Of course I'm just rationalizing here because I don't have a
>>filter before the aux pump.
>>
>> Laird
>> See you Saturday to inspect Casper.
>>
>>
>> Mike, I don't wish to offend you, but not filtering the fuel prior to the
>> pump is a mistake. I have personally inspected these pumps after failure, a
>> number of times. They are susceptible to malfunctioning due to very small
>> bits of debris, because of the small passage size and design of their
>> spring loaded check valve. Please filter the fuel before it goes into the
>> pump.
>> Garry, Caspers Dad
>>
>> Mike Thompson wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > --- HCRV6(at)aol.com wrote:
>> > >
>> > > All: I am considering the following arrangement of fuel system
>> >
>> > > components in my RV-6 and would appreciate any and all suggestions or
>> > > comments from the list.
>> >
>> >
>> > Harry,
>> >
>> > Am working that system now. I ran from the valve to the wing root, to
>> > the pump then to gascolator (both in the root area). Do you really
>> > expect large enough garbage in the fuel to foul the pump? I am not
> > > using an inline filter prior to the boost pump.
>> >
>> > I then run the lines from the root back into the cabin and up to a
>> > bulkhead elbow at the firewall. I wanted to get as many fuel
>> > connections out of the cabin as I could, and you're right - the
>> > components will be nice and cool out there. No blast tubes, no
>> > shields.
>> >
>> > Once under the cowl I tee to primer solenoid (upside down or rightside
>> > up) also to fuel flow sensor thence to mechanical pump.
>> >
>> > Aside from our boost pump / gascolator order we've got the same setup,
>> > which I unashamedly copy from flying RV's (-6's).
>> >
>> > I think both will work fine.
>> >
>> > Mike Thompson
>> > Austin, TX
>> > -6 N140RV (Reserved)
>> > Firewall Forward
>> >
>> > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>> >
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com> |
My experience has been that Wicks search engine isn't worth poopy. Call 'em
and ask...or email.
-Larry
--- gert wrote:
>
> Hmm, went to try and order some more oops rivets from Van's, the
> NAS1097AD3-3.5 and cohorts. They are not on their website anymore.
> They still seem to have the NAS1097AD4-X.X series
>
> tried Aircraft Spruce, no luck either. Avery seems to be out of the
> rivet business also. Wicks search engine came up blank.
>
> I got some left but would like to refill the bin so to say.
>
>
> Anybody know a place to buy NAS1097AD3 rivets in quanteties less than 1
> lbs ??
>
> Thanks
>
> Gert
> --
> is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Panther Electronics |
I saw their info at SNF & sent them an email about it. They said I could
come over to demo a set. I haven't gotten around to that, yet. The prices
are a little too steep for solving my problem of my Peltors falling off into
the baggage compartment. What a hassle that is, trying to keep up with two
-4's in front of you that are trying their very best to shake you while you
try to fish out the headset from out back. Duct tape is cheaper than the
Panther earpieces.
Rick Caldwell
-6 Melbourne, FL
>From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Panther Electronics
>Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:18:02 -0400
>
>
>St Cloud? You're kidding. I grew up there..it's about 30 minutes from me
>and I could go check Panther out for you if you'd like.
>
>Bill
>-4
>Orlando
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tim Bronson" <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com>
>To: "RV-List"
>Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 9:25 PM
>Subject: RV-List: Panther Electronics
>
>
> >
> > Hi Folks, especially Floridians,
> >
> > Have any of you ever heard of or dealt with Panther Electronics of St.
> > Cloud, FL? I checked the archives and found no posts, and they are not
> > listed in the Yeller Pages. They make a headset whose mirophone is
> > embedded in an earpiece, eliminating a traditional boom mike. Looks
> > interesting, though it's a bit pricey. Their web site is
> > www.pantherelectronics.com. They feature a guy who uses this headset in
>a
> > Long EZ (yeah, I know) on their site. Anyone know anything about them?
>I
> > have e-mailed them and not received any replies.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tim
> > Pittsburgh
> > Future builder
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
Don't need silver solder. regular works just fine. That is what we
installed at Oshkosh and are running 175 Psi.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: My new air compressor
I've just finished the airframe of the RV-6 and used a 5hp, three-cylinder,
60 gallon vertical tank rig situated in the unheated portion of the garage.
Then, by silver soldered 3/4" copper pipe, I fed the air through the false
wall and into the heated shop at the back of the garage. The compressor
people told me about this arrangement which involves compressing cool air
then running it into a heated space which reduces the relative humidity in
it. It seemed to work and water was not a problem during any painting
sessions. The local farm supply place( www.princessauto.com) sells automatic
tank moisture drains that open at around 8-12psi. I also bought their
1-into-3 splitter for running more than one tool without changing hoses. All
the air tools have "whips" on them(3'air lines) and I use an inline oiler at
the connection between the main hose and the whip. This way, the main hose
never has oil in it and can be hooked up directly to the HVLP gun. I tried
one of the cheap, clear plastic oilers but it didn't last a day at 100+psi.
Took it back to the industrial supply and bought a larger, heavier unit made
out of black-anodized aluminum and brass-hasn't leaked a drop or blown a
bubble in five years. Have to be careful not to bang it against the sheet
metal though...
Scott Jackson
Vancouver, B.C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Schlosser <kevinschlosser(at)msn.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: My new air compressor
>
> I've got the Campbell Hausfeld inline water filter. It's the
> smaller one about the size of a gascolator. That'll do right?
>
> What about tool oiling? I see oiling manifolds for house air rigs.
> I'm not sure if I want oil vapor injected into my air hoses if that's
> what these things do. I'd assume anyone that uses those has a
> separate hose for painting operations?
>
> This is my first attempt at using air powered tools, so I'd like to
> do things properly.
>
> As for the die grinder, I wonder if connecting the 11 gallon tank
> inline with the compressor's tank would help?
>
> Kevin
> -=-=-
> Looking forward to smashing rivets!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 8:37 AM
> To: kevinschlosser(at)msn.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: My new air compressor
>
>
> Kevin, no problem, thats overkill. The only real test for it will be your
> die grinder, just be sure you protect your air tools from water coming
> through the hose. The other test will be if you want to paint your plane
> yourself using that compressor. Other than that no problem.
>
> Eric
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel System Plumbing Question
>
> Garry,
>
> You might want to run some tests before selecting an in line filter.
> I've been told that many inline filters won't flow anything at all if
> they get contaminated with water. BIG SNIP
> I've been told that one of the biggest cause of engine failures in
> the test flight phase is poorly thought out fuel system
> "improvements". So, be sure to do a proper ground and flight test
> program of any "improvements" you want to make to Van's design. His
> design has a very good service history.
>
> Take care,
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Kevin,
I fly with inline filters and have had no problem as of yet. From what I
have read, the filters with paper filter elements are the ones that can be
adversely effected by water - supposedly causes the material to swell and
reduce size of openings in the porous material thereby restricting fuel
flow - at least that is what I have read.
Ed Anderson
Matthews, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | My new air compressor |
--- Larry Bowen wrote:
>
> Why depressurize?
>
> I have a cutoff at the tank that I close when not it use. The line
> will
> eventually leak down to a neutral pressure after several hours. The
> 60 gal
> tank stays pressurized at ~130#. Is this bad form?
Naw - that's just right. My problem is when I forget to close the
valve and the system leaks down (you just can't make 5
quick-disconnects not leak air) and the compressor kicks in at 0200.
But it's nice to be able to go out there, turn the valve and have air
immediately. I would caution on plumbing that one use only metal lines
between compressor and valve, though, lest over time constant pressure
on anything other (dare I say PVC?) could cause a blow out.
>
> I also have a valve at the bottom that I crack open for a couple
> seconds
> once a week or so to drain the couple teaspoons of condensation.
Once a week? Teaspoons? Must be nice...
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
====
Michael E. Thompson (Grobdriver(at)yahoo.com)
Austin, TX, USA
RV-6 in progress, N140RV (Reserved)
EX-AX1 Sub Hunter, P-3 (B/B-TACMOD/C) Orion Aircrew,
PP-G,ASEL, Motorglider Driver and Unlimited Air Race Nut!
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question |
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Kevin Horton" <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
>To:
>Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:20 AM
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel System Plumbing Question
>
>
>>
>> Garry,
>>
>> You might want to run some tests before selecting an in line filter.
>> I've been told that many inline filters won't flow anything at all if
>> they get contaminated with water. BIG SNIP
>
>> I've been told that one of the biggest cause of engine failures in
>> the test flight phase is poorly thought out fuel system
>> "improvements". So, be sure to do a proper ground and flight test
>> program of any "improvements" you want to make to Van's design. His
>> design has a very good service history.
>>
>> Take care,
>>
>> Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
>
>
>Kevin,
>
> I fly with inline filters and have had no problem as of yet. From what I
>have read, the filters with paper filter elements are the ones that can be
>adversely effected by water - supposedly causes the material to swell and
>reduce size of openings in the porous material thereby restricting fuel
>flow - at least that is what I have read.
>
>Ed Anderson
>Matthews, NC
>
Ed,
Wouldn't it be prudent to rig up a ground test on a test stand to
confirm your choice of filter is OK with water? If there is a
problem I'd sure rather find out that way than have the engine quit
on you.
It shouldn't be that difficult to set up a filter test rig with some
lines using gravity to draw the fuel through the filter. Time how
long it takes a certain amount of fuel to go through. Repeat the
test with a good bunch of water in the fuel. Then, just in case it
takes the filter a while to swell up, try the test again the next
day, and then next week (leave the filter full of the water/fuel in
between the tests, just like it would be in your aircraft). Of
course, this test should be done out side, with fire extinguishers
present. Metal resevoirs, with everything grounded together, etc.
Take care,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tim Bryan" <timbryan(at)oregontrail.net> |
Subject: | Speaking of oops |
Hi Listers,
I drilled the hole through one of my aileron bellcranks to an AN4 size when
it should have been an AN3. Guess I drilled to many AN4's today. Anybody
know of an fix other than buying parts and making a new bellcrank? The rod
end that fits in it only takes a 3.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Slider (N616TB Reserved) Finish kit but wanting to close my wings
tim(at)bryantechnology.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rpflanze(at)iquest.net |
Subject: | Re: Alternator problems |
To anyone who's not purchased an alternator yet:
Buy a B&C alternator and it will likely last for as long as you own your airplane.
In my mind, it is money well spent and just one less thing to worry about once
you're flying.
Randy Pflanzer N417G
RV-6 (Constant alternator problems in my Traumahawk)
>
>Chris,
>
>This is good information. I have Van's alternator too, but not flying yet.
>I have been so paranoid about alternators that I have installed the
>Loadmeter instrument from B&C that monitors and gives constant readings on
>the alternator output and also the battery's condition. I have installed
>the essential bus that bypasses the alternator in emergency situations.
>Your alternator problem would have been easily indicated on the Loadmeter.
>
>Jerry Calvert
>Edmond Ok
>RV6 ...wrestling oil cooler
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Chris Good <chrisjgood(at)yahoo.com>
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 6:19 PM
>Subject: RV-List: Alternator problems
>
>
>>
>> Listers,
>>
>> For the archive, I'd like to add my name to those who have had problems
>> with Van's 35A alternator. When I had this problem, I checked the
>archives
>> & found a number of people reporting failure around 200 hrs.
>>
>> A couple of weeks ago, in the middle of a flight, my EIS-4000 flashed its
>> Big Red Light at me to indicate low voltage. I was able to reduce the
>load
>> & restore the voltage to its usual charging level. I later determined
>that
>> the alternator output was down to about 12 amps. In discussion with a few
>> people, I learned that these alternators probably have three pairs of
>> diodes. I suspect that one pair went some time ago, bringing the output
>to
>> 24 amps, which I wouldn't even have noticed since the EIS-4000 does not
>> include any current monitoring. Then when another pair went, that dropped
>> it down to 12 amps. Of course maybe someone will tell me that alternators
>> don't work this way at all!
>>
>> It has been hot in Wisconsin recently, probably 90 degrees the day I saw
>> the failure. I did have a blast tube installed, taking air from the right
>> cowl inlet to the back of the alternator.
>>
>> I'm not too upset about the failure, since it lasted nearly 250 hrs & was
>a
>> cheap & easy option for my initial installation. Also I'm happy it didn't
>> fail completely & it didn't cause any diversions in flight.
>>
>> At Oshkosh I purchased the 40 amp alternator from B&C. It's a very nicely
>> built unit, lighter than Van's, but of course quite a bit more
>> expensive. I had to extend the mounting arm slot 3/8" so that I could use
>> the existing Gates 7355 belt rather than the longer 7365 that was
>> supplied. For the moment, I'm continuing to use Van's adjustable
>regulator
>> & Bob Nuckolls' OV protection unit. The new installation works perfectly.
>> Regards,
>>
>> Chris Good, http://www.rv.supermatrix.com
>> West Bend, WI
>> RV-6A N86CG, 245 hrs
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Haywire" <haywire(at)telus.net> |
Subject: | AOA / LRI in ice |
So heated pressure ports/probes for these systems are really not worth
anything ?
S. Todd Bartrim
13B RV-9
CF-STB (reserved)
Fuselage
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
> Sent: August 2, 2001 5:48 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: AOA / LRI in ice
>
>
> >
> > Hi All;
> > Something that nobody has mentioned, but that I am
> curious about.
> >Each of these systems requires that you calibrate it to your specific
> >airfoil by performing a series of manoeuvres in a test flight. Once done,
> >these systems measure the aoa/lift of that specific airfoil
> shape. Now when
> >you encounter severe enough ice to approach a stall, the wing will have
> >accumulated enough ice to change shape and will not be the same
> airfoil that
> >your system is calibrated for.
> > Does this sound reasonable?
> >With that said I would like to add that I do own the PSS AOA
> sport model, to
> >be installed in my RV-9, and I do believe them to be an
> extremely valuable
> >tool.*
> >
> >S. Todd Bartrim
>
> You are 100% right. Add some ice and the AOA indicator is now pretty
> much useless. But, you'll likely collect ice in cruise, at a speed
> well above the stall speed, so you shouldn't stall it then.
> Hopefully you can remember to add a few knots on approach if you
> still have ice on the aircraft.
>
> If you are collecting ice on the wing. you should be changing
> altitudes right now, even if you have to declare an emergency to do
> it. Thinner airfoils collect ice much faster than thick ones. So,
> if you are seeing ice start to collect on the wings you probably
> already have a lot of ice on the prop, and some ice on the HS and VS.
>
> Take care,
>
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: Reasons to use AOA devices |
This has been a useful topic and has made me think about putting a PSS in my
RV-8. I have plenty of time in Citabrias, but it might be good life
insurance in a high performance plane. Anybody else wondering if they would
be bothered by the aural warning during a normal full stall landing?
Steve Johnson
RV-8 finishing wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: Re: RV-List: Reasons to use AOA devices
>
> Excellent post Mike!
>
> What we do know is that an AOA indicator will not in any way make your
plane unsafe - it can only make it safer when installed, calibrated and used
properly.
>
> The cost of an AOA system regardless of you deciding to use it as a backup
or use your ASI as backup is worth it if it only saves your life _once_ that
time when you're looking at something not paying attention (heaven forbid)
and you hear the voice saying "Angle, Push!".
> Personally I'll stick with PSS since I already prepared for it and since
it's combined with an aural indicator. The others are probably just as
good - only different flavours.
>
> Are
> RV-8 Wings
>
> >
> > From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
> > Date: 2001/08/02 Thu PM 02:07:38 EDT
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Reasons to use AOA devices
> >
> >
> > Are,
> >
> > Unlike the airspeed indicator, the AOA device senses the same pressures
that
> > your airfoil sees. The AOA then displays that angle of attack almost
> > instantly. Not only does it tell you when you've reached a critical
angle
> > of attack, it also shows the trend on the display and warns you AS YOU
> > APPROACH that critical angle of attack.
> >
> > One of these days when our planes are complete, we'll be up at a safe
> > altitude and pull up to see how that newly built baby will climb. If we
> > pull up hard and wait for the airspeed indicator to get to the stall
speed,
> > you will most certainly have already stalled and started your recovery
well
> > before the ASI gets to stall speed.
> >
> > We all practice (or should practice) stalls in the departure and landing
> > configurations. We're set up for it, we're looking for it and we can
feel
> > the controls as we get close to it. No problem. We correct our control
> > inputs and go about our business. None of the stories I've read about,
> > where pilots have stalled and died, happened while they were practicing
> > stalls. No, they were doing something else. Maybe they were flying
along
> > at a slow speed to check out the neighborhood. Eyes outside, they see
> > something they like and turn to check it out. As you said, eyes
outside,
> > flying the airplane. Maybe you get distracted at slow flight and turn
to
> > look at something and inadvertently give that sensitive RV stick a
little
> > tug more than you meant to (a certain John Denver story comes to mind).
> >
> > There are a bazillion scenarios that can hurt you and I don't think it
has
> > anything to do with being a good pilot or not. Lots of good pilots have
met
> > their maker in stall/spin accidents. A certain, very experienced,
Glassair
> > pilot last week at OSH with a bunch of hours comes to mind also.
> >
> > Looking at the AOA indicator is no different than looking at the
airspeed
> > indicator. We can fly with our heads outside the cockpit all day long
but
> > we still look at the airspeed indicator when flying slow. Why do we do
> > that? Cause we don't want to fly to slow and stall. Why not look at an
> > instrument that gives you more information than an airspeed indicator?
You
> > can still "fly with your head outside the cockpit". I can't speak for
the
> > others, but the PSS AOA instrument gives an audible warning as you NEAR
the
> > critical AOA. Get a little slow inadvertently and that cute little
voice
> > wakes you from your day dream "Angle, Angle, Push".
> >
> > Many of us are installing heated pitot/static systems in the
anticipation of
> > flying in the clouds or at night. Departing in IFR conditions
regardless of
> > airport density altitude or aircraft weight, I can't think of anything
> > better than taking off, setting up a departure angle of attack and be on
my
> > merry way. A quick crosscheck with the ASI might just remind you that
you
> > forgot to turn on the pitot as the airspeed indicator winds down.
> >
> > Lots of planes have been flying lots of years without using an AOA
devices.
> > They will continue to do so. Lots of planes have been flying lots of
years
> > without GPS too, but having one sure makes getting lost harder to do.
> >
> > Flying by AOA sure makes inadvertent stalling less likely also.
> >
> > Thanks for the good discussion.
> >
> > Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> > Plainfield, IL
> > RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
> > Stinson 108-2 N9666K
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jody Villa" <jodyvilla(at)worldnet.att.net> |
In the process of cleaning out my video library for the move to a new
home I have come across some videos I would like to get rid of and
some of you might want. All I want is for you to pay for the shipping
and I would prefer you take all of them. Here is the list;
Lancair 320 Promo tape
Christen world of aerobatics
Power by Victor - Victor Black discusses engines
GlaStar Promo tape
Orndorff 6/8 Emp: Rudder
Elevator
Trim Tab
Orndorff 6/8 Emp: Horizontal Stab
Rear Spar
Front spar
Skinning
Vert. Stab
Rudder
Notice how I sweetened the pot at the end ;>)
**************************************************
Jody Villa Tewksbury, NJ USA
*************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
Problem is, their website does not SHOW NAS1097AD3-X.X rivets anymore.
Ony the NAS1097AD4 rivets. And no matter what quantity you order you
will still get the NAS1097AD4 rivets, not the NAS1097AD3.
"Ross A. Scroggs" wrote:
>
>
> I just received 1/4lb of the NAS1097AD3-3.5 rivets from Vans, last week. On
> the web page that shows the rivets are instructions on how to order in a
> smaller quantity than 1 LB. It did work.
>
> Ross Scroggs
> Conyers, Ga.
> RV4, Emp.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
> To: ; rv-list
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:21 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Oops rivets
>
> >
> > Hmm, went to try and order some more oops rivets from Van's, the
> > NAS1097AD3-3.5 and cohorts. They are not on their website anymore.
> > They still seem to have the NAS1097AD4-X.X series
> >
> > tried Aircraft Spruce, no luck either. Avery seems to be out of the
> > rivet business also. Wicks search engine came up blank.
> >
> > I got some left but would like to refill the bin so to say.
> >
> >
> > Anybody know a place to buy NAS1097AD3 rivets in quanteties less than 1
> > lbs ??
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Gert
> > --
> > is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
> >
> >
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
I recommend blowing down (depressurizing) the compressor tank at the end of
the work day. Corrosion is accelerated in high oxygen environments.
Keeping pressure in the tank raised the oxygen partial pressure. This
abundant amount of oxygen, in contact with residual moisture, drives
corrosion.
If you have an air dryer between the compressor and the storage tank, not an
issue (assuming the dew point is kept well below zero). Most of us don't.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (systems install)
Vienna, VA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Thompson" <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 8:56 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: My new air compressor
>
> --- Larry Bowen wrote:
> >
> > Why depressurize?
> >
> > I have a cutoff at the tank that I close when not it use. The line
> > will
> > eventually leak down to a neutral pressure after several hours. The
> > 60 gal
> > tank stays pressurized at ~130#. Is this bad form?
>
> Naw - that's just right. My problem is when I forget to close the
> valve and the system leaks down (you just can't make 5
> quick-disconnects not leak air) and the compressor kicks in at 0200.
>
> But it's nice to be able to go out there, turn the valve and have air
> immediately. I would caution on plumbing that one use only metal lines
> between compressor and valve, though, lest over time constant pressure
> on anything other (dare I say PVC?) could cause a blow out.
>
> >
> > I also have a valve at the bottom that I crack open for a couple
> > seconds
> > once a week or so to drain the couple teaspoons of condensation.
>
> Once a week? Teaspoons? Must be nice...
>
> Mike Thompson
> Austin, TX
> -6 N140RV (Reserved)
> Firewall Forward
>
>
> ====
> Michael E. Thompson (Grobdriver(at)yahoo.com)
> Austin, TX, USA
> RV-6 in progress, N140RV (Reserved)
> EX-AX1 Sub Hunter, P-3 (B/B-TACMOD/C) Orion Aircrew,
> PP-G,ASEL, Motorglider Driver and Unlimited Air Race Nut!
>
>
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
Subject: | My new air compressor |
>
>Why depressurize?
>
>I have a cutoff at the tank that I close when not it use. The line will
>eventually leak down to a neutral pressure after several hours. The 60 gal
>tank stays pressurized at ~130#. Is this bad form?
>
>I also have a valve at the bottom that I crack open for a couple seconds
>once a week or so to drain the couple teaspoons of condensation.
>
>Larry Bowen
>Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
>Web: http://BowenAero.com
Why depressurize? Well, I suspect your tank is made of steel. Add
moisture and oxygen and you get rust. At 130 psi above ambient
pressure you've got about 145 psi absolute pressure in the tank, or
about 10 times normal atmospheric pressure. So there is 10 times as
much oxygen, and it will rust 10 times as fast. If you view the
compressor tank as a throw away item, to be replaced once it rusts
through, then don't worry about depressurizing it. If you want it to
last as long as possible, then you should depressurize it after use.
The choice is yours. Either way it'll likely last to the end of your
project, unless you are a very slow builder.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rpflanze(at)iquest.net |
Subject: | Re: Speaking of oops |
You can order a rod-end bearing that would fit an AN-4 bolt, but it would cost
you much, much more than a replacement bellcrank. Other solutions are also
possible, but in my mind, undesirable.
Take the easy way out. Toss the part in the scrap heap and order a new bellcrank
from Van's and go work on another part of your project for awhile. The airleron
linkage is not a place to have any slop or jury-rigged linkages. Just the tiniest
bit of slop will make it very difficult to achieve neutral aileron trim once
you're flying.
Randy Pflanzer N417G
RV-6 (175 hours)
>
>Hi Listers,
>
>I drilled the hole through one of my aileron bellcranks to an AN4 size when
>it should have been an AN3. Guess I drilled to many AN4's today. Anybody
>know of an fix other than buying parts and making a new bellcrank? The rod
>end that fits in it only takes a 3.
>
>Tim Bryan
>RV-6 Slider (N616TB Reserved) Finish kit but wanting to close my wings
>tim(at)bryantechnology.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
Subject: | Fuel System Plumbing Question |
The Airflow Performance filter is a big heavy billet aluminum thing, huge
compared to automotive fuel filters- at least as large as a gascolator and
probably heavier. It uses a pleated stainless steel filter that passes
water just fine, at least according to them. Filters with paper filtering
units are the ones that don't work, the paper absorbs the water and then the
gas can't pass through.
Compared to the Andair gascolator (the only one I've examined closely), it
has a much larger filtering area with a little bit coarser mesh in the
filter screen.
Vans diagram shows it mounted up/down with the inlet on the bottom and the
outlet on top. I wonder if this is so that if a slug of water gets in it
gets bubbled through the filter instead of passed all at once? No idea...
I returned my andair gascolator and am using the AP fuel filter instead.
Why? 'Cause Vans for the 8 show an AP pump and an AP filter. Everywhere
else I tried to better his design I came up short so I'm not going to try it
here. (Right! I'm know I'm a sissy)
Matthew
8A canopy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel System Plumbing Question
Garry,
You might want to run some tests before selecting an in line filter.
I've been told that many inline filters won't flow anything at all if
they get contaminated with water. Water in the fuel is a fairly
common problem in aircraft, so you need to have a fuel system design
that is tolerant of it. The gascolator is great in this regard,
because it just lets the water collect in the bottom of the bowl, but
it continues to pass fuel.
I know there are some RVs flying with in line filters. Can anyone
share any test results showing how the filter handles water in the
fuel? If you've found a filter that continues to flow fuel after
swallowing a big slug of water, please tell us which filter it is.
A Facet pump failure is not a big deal, as the engine driven pump
will continue to do the job. I would hate to create a new failure
mode that could stop the engine when all I was trying to do was make
the Facet pump a bit more reliable.
I've been told that one of the biggest cause of engine failures in
the test flight phase is poorly thought out fuel system
"improvements". So, be sure to do a proper ground and flight test
program of any "improvements" you want to make to Van's design. His
design has a very good service history.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
>
>TWO, I used BIG letters because they were important ones. Let me put
>it this way, THE ENGINE STOPPED. And yes I agree with you, for
>true redundancy a parallel system would be ideal.
>If the engine is running at say cruise RPM, there is a good chance
>that the engine pump will pull most stuff through the Facet pump and
>then it can plug the engine driven pump or the screen in the carb.
>Darn, the more I think of it the more I think I'll put in a inline
>filter before the Facet pump that way it will protect the engine
>pump and the carb. OH, I already did, didn't I.
>Garry, Caspers Dad,
>Just try to make a few bucks selling fuel filters.
>
>
>"Owens, Laird" wrote:
>
>>
>> Hey Garry,
>>
>> Of those failed pumps that you have inspected, how many have a
>>failure mode where they wouldn't flow fuel once they died?
>>
>> If it doesn't fail closed then I'd say it's ok if you fail one
>>once in a while, as it is a secondary pump. You'd have to loose
>>both pumps before the things get real quite. If it could fail
>>closed, then you have the classic single point failure. But then
>>again, I've heard that the mechanical pump can fail in such a manor
>>as to restrict flow. How many of us run a parallel line to bypass
>>the mechanical pump in case of failure? Not many, I'd guess.
>>
>> Of course I'm just rationalizing here because I don't have a
>>filter before the aux pump.
>>
>> Laird
>> See you Saturday to inspect Casper.
>>
>>
>> Mike, I don't wish to offend you, but not filtering the fuel prior to
the
>> pump is a mistake. I have personally inspected these pumps after
failure, a
>> number of times. They are susceptible to malfunctioning due to very
small
>> bits of debris, because of the small passage size and design of their
>> spring loaded check valve. Please filter the fuel before it goes into
the
>> pump.
>> Garry, Caspers Dad
>>
>> Mike Thompson wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > --- HCRV6(at)aol.com wrote:
>> > >
>> > > All: I am considering the following arrangement of fuel
system
>> >
>> > > components in my RV-6 and would appreciate any and all suggestions
or
>> > > comments from the list.
>> >
>> >
>> > Harry,
>> >
>> > Am working that system now. I ran from the valve to the wing root, to
>> > the pump then to gascolator (both in the root area). Do you really
>> > expect large enough garbage in the fuel to foul the pump? I am not
> > > using an inline filter prior to the boost pump.
>> >
>> > I then run the lines from the root back into the cabin and up to a
>> > bulkhead elbow at the firewall. I wanted to get as many fuel
>> > connections out of the cabin as I could, and you're right - the
>> > components will be nice and cool out there. No blast tubes, no
>> > shields.
>> >
>> > Once under the cowl I tee to primer solenoid (upside down or rightside
>> > up) also to fuel flow sensor thence to mechanical pump.
>> >
>> > Aside from our boost pump / gascolator order we've got the same setup,
>> > which I unashamedly copy from flying RV's (-6's).
>> >
>> > I think both will work fine.
>> >
>> > Mike Thompson
>> > Austin, TX
>> > -6 N140RV (Reserved)
>> > Firewall Forward
>> >
>> > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>> >
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
Thread-Index: AcEbw1eDEjbQOyUiSY2WIqEpueGhZgAaSAkg
From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
Thanks, Tim. That was the post I was thinking of in my previous post
which questioned the validity of the data these devices present. Again,
not intending to flame the manufacturers of these devices, I'm a
pragmatist and I get a little offended (well, not really, I find it a
little humorous) when someone tries to sell us RVers something "it
ain't", because I'm a dinosaur that relies on my airspeed indicator and
the seat of my pants. I can't help but to think of those infomercials
you see late at night where they spill red wine on white carpet and
clean it up instantly with their $19.95 a bottle product.
To oversimplify this subject, what are we trying to detect here? The
onset of a stall. Seems to me that AOA devices detect some conditions
of a stall (differential pressures) which does not take into account cg,
flap settings, or loading or any other conditions that affect stall
speed. So, these devices aren't telling you all that you need to know
to avoid a stall, because there's other conditions that need to be
measured to get the whole picture. Now, think about the homebuilt 20
dollar stall detection vane. This device is telling you that airflow is
beginning to separate from the outboard leading edge of the wing. It's
telling you what you ultimately want to know. It doesn't cost $400 or
$700. Its light and simple. It will work correctly under all
conditions of cg, weight, flap, etc. (if its not iced up.) Simple to
calibrate. If AOA devices were the best thing since sliced bread then
all the spam manufacturers would be installing them, from a liability
standpoint. Hmmm, they're still using those old, antiquated stall
vanes...go figure. I think I will be adding a stall horn as Tim
describes to my airplane sometime soon, after I do some more research.
I'm wondering how big the vane needs to be, and how much force is
required to close the switch, and if the arm of the microswitch could be
used as a vane directly, provided it wasn't thin and flimsy. How far
out do they need to hang in the breeze?
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying ~185 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question |
> >> Garry,
> >>
> >> You might want to run some tests before selecting an in line filter.
> >> I've been told that many inline filters won't flow anything at all if
> >> they get contaminated with water. BIG SNIP
> >
> >> I've been told that one of the biggest cause of engine failures in
> >> the test flight phase is poorly thought out fuel system
> >> "improvements". So, be sure to do a proper ground and flight test
> >> program of any "improvements" you want to make to Van's design. His
> >> design has a very good service history.
There are lots of folks running filters in their planes, and so far may
have had no problems. Two members of my EAA chapter have suffered off
airport landings when their inline fuel filters plugged up. A gascolator
would not have plugged up under their circumstances.
Dave Burton
RV6 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question Answer-Long |
Kevin,
The testing you suggest I might won't to do, were done. In 1979 and again in 2000.
In 1979, after soak testing for 3 months, and ground flow tests using combinations
of fuel, fuel / water and water only, a Fram (I believe it was a G-1) was
installed on the prototype Q2. This filter was replaced (as well as almost the
entire aircraft) at 260 hr., after Gene Shehan crashed landed the Q2 after 1/2
the
propeller blade departed the aircraft during a propeller test.
When the Q2 was rebuilt the local auto parts store in Mojave was a Wix reseller,
so
a Wix 33001
( equivalent to the G-1) was chosen. No testing was performed at that time
regarding the water handling abilities of the Wix filter.
This filter was replaced at approx. 620 hr. (360 hr. in service). The replacement
was in service approx. 300 hr., until the aircraft ws sold in 1984. Periodically
small droplets of water could be see in these filters. When this happened the
filter was removed, the water was dumped out and the filter returned to service.
When planing my "6"s fuel system in 2000, I again utilized a Wix filter ( part
#
3303 the last 3 designates a 3/8th fuel line). The same testing was performed as
was performed in 1979. Only this time the fuel, fuel/water and water only, were
sucked through the filter by a BD 2 ounce syringe, instead of using a funnel and
pouring the fluid into it as on the first test. In addition, prior to performing
these tests a filter was submerged in a jar of water for almost 6 months. When
removed from the jar the filter flowed fuel as fast
as it had prior to the test.
Like many things in aviation circles, the water issue with these filters is another
urban myth. At least with the Fram or Wix products.
There may be some basis for the myth, such as some one may have used a econo "no
name brand" filter that did react badly with water.
I will continue to trust the Fram and Wix products, however, I chose to use the
Wix
product because the case is clear, which makes it easy to spot any contamination
in
the fuel while flying, and that and the pump protection is an "improvement on Van's
design".
Lets not forget the pump manufacturer says " to protect the pump install an inline
fuel filter between the fuel tank and the pump inlet."
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
> Garry,
>
> You might want to run some tests before selecting an in line filter.
> I've been told that many inline filters won't flow anything at all if
> they get contaminated with water. Water in the fuel is a fairly
> common problem in aircraft, so you need to have a fuel system design
> that is tolerant of it.
SNIP
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rpflanze(at)iquest.net |
Subject: | Re: Cheap Videos |
I have a comment about reselling Orndorff videos. If you buy one that is resold,
you may want to consider putting a few bucks in an envelope and sending it to
George and Becki. They both have been on the list for years and are ardent
RV supporters. They have never complained about their products being resold
on the List even though doing so probably robs them of additional revenue that
they are entitled to.
I don't have any stake in GBI other than their products made it easier for me
to get my RV in the air. I personally like to support those that make my hobby
possible and think that most of us feel the same way too. I'm not against anyone
who wants to resell the vidoes so please don't take this as a flame Jody. And
I'm not wanting to start a big debate on the subject either. It's a personal
choice. Do it or don't do it, I don't care either way. I just wanted to suggest
it.
For those of you that will ultimately take this post the wrong way and get angry
over my suggestion, send your response to me directly rather than filling up
the List with points and counter-points that won't change anyone's mind one
way or the other.
Randy Pflanzer N417G
RV-6 (175 hours)
>
>In the process of cleaning out my video library for the move to a new
>home I have come across some videos I would like to get rid of and
>some of you might want. All I want is for you to pay for the shipping
>and I would prefer you take all of them. Here is the list;
>
>Lancair 320 Promo tape
>Christen world of aerobatics
>Power by Victor - Victor Black discusses engines
>GlaStar Promo tape
>Orndorff 6/8 Emp: Rudder
> Elevator
> Trim Tab
>Orndorff 6/8 Emp: Horizontal Stab
> Rear Spar
> Front spar
> Skinning
> Vert. Stab
> Rudder
>
>Notice how I sweetened the pot at the end ;>)
>**************************************************
>Jody Villa Tewksbury, NJ USA
>
>*************************************************
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
Ryan Severance wrote:
>
> The oops rivet NAS1097AD4 is used in a 3/32 holes that has been drilled out
> to the 1/8 size (Oops!). It has the same (very close) head as an AD3 rivet.
> So where would you use a NAS1097AD3 oops rivet? Do they make such a
> thing? Or are you actually looking for an AD4...
>
The best use I found for the AD3 oops rivet was/is for installing platenutes.
Just over-deburr the hole and it is ready for the reduced head 1097 rivet, no
dimple needed.
Gary Zilik
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question |
Dave,
Lets not lump all inline filters into one category.
The filters I refer to have large area pleated, treated paper filters,
manufactured by Fram & Wix. To pug one of these type of filters would take a
huge amount of contamination.
The other type of inline filter, is one that uses a ceramic element or some
type of screen and has very little effective filtration area.
One brand "Alonda" was sold by ASAS and supplied by them with the Quickie (
single seat, garden tractor engined) and Varieze Kits. These would plug up with
construction debris( composite fuel tanks tend to end up with more crap in them
than aluminum ones), in no time at all (usually while doing taxi testing,
thankfully, don't ask how I know), and most people took them off their aircraft
and replaced them with the Fram/Wix type. ASAS eventually stopped selling them.
I bet if you check into it you will find that the two plugged filters were the
screen type and the aircraft probably had a composite fuel tank.
I forgot to mention, that if you talk to a Wix engineer about water and their
filters they will tell you that, the filter medium will slowly swell, a small
amount, if immersed in water for long periods( months), but will not impeded
the flow of fuel significantly.
Garry, Caspers Dad
Still trying to make a buck selling these filters.
David Burton wrote:
There are lots of folks running filters in their planes, and so far may
> have had no problems. Two members of my EAA chapter have suffered off
> airport landings when their inline fuel filters plugged up. A gascolator
> would not have plugged up under their circumstances.
>
> Dave Burton
> RV6 wings
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Hey, distinguished friends: I have acquired (thru eBay) an old Jaeger
B-2 "Angle of Attack" which reads 0 to 30 degrees nose up or down, and
has no connections to anything, the only thing on the back is a locking
screw. I,m told they were used in WWII and were considered useful for
gliders. Any body know what use this is for? Thanks, Bob Adams, -6A
finishing stage. Maybe you could use this to determine the slope of
the runway?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
Subject: | Re: Speaking of oops |
make a sleeve
Tim Bryan wrote:
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> I drilled the hole through one of my aileron bellcranks to an AN4 size when
> it should have been an AN3. Guess I drilled to many AN4's today. Anybody
> know of an fix other than buying parts and making a new bellcrank? The rod
> end that fits in it only takes a 3.
>
> Tim Bryan
> RV-6 Slider (N616TB Reserved) Finish kit but wanting to close my wings
> tim(at)bryantechnology.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
Subject: | OFF-List: Cheap Videos |
Off-List
Randy,
You're an all right guy. That was a very well written and thoughtful post.
If more people felt that way it would be a better world. In my case Geipel
is low balling to make sales to RVers but I also know that he is charging
$35 shipping and I'm not charging RVer's shipping but the minute I post
that he'll match me. Oh well if more people thought like you do it would
be a lot easier to make stuff available to RV builders and a lot harder for
the JPI's and Geipels. Take care and thanks on behalf of George and
Becky......Al
Al Mojzisik
InAir Instruments, LLC
Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI)
AOA and SO much more!
http://www.liftreserve.com
>
>I have a comment about reselling Orndorff videos. If you buy one that is
>resold,
>you may want to consider putting a few bucks in an envelope and sending it to
>George and Becki. They both have been on the list for years and are ardent
>RV supporters. They have never complained about their products being resold
>on the List even though doing so probably robs them of additional revenue that
>they are entitled to.
>
>I don't have any stake in GBI other than their products made it easier for me
>to get my RV in the air. I personally like to support those that make my
>hobby
>possible and think that most of us feel the same way too. I'm not against
>anyone
>who wants to resell the vidoes so please don't take this as a flame Jody. And
>I'm not wanting to start a big debate on the subject either. It's a personal
>choice. Do it or don't do it, I don't care either way. I just wanted to
>suggest
>it.
>
>For those of you that will ultimately take this post the wrong way and get
>angry
>over my suggestion, send your response to me directly rather than filling up
>the List with points and counter-points that won't change anyone's mind one
>way or the other.
>
>Randy Pflanzer N417G
>RV-6 (175 hours)
>
>
> >
> >In the process of cleaning out my video library for the move to a new
> >home I have come across some videos I would like to get rid of and
> >some of you might want. All I want is for you to pay for the shipping
> >and I would prefer you take all of them. Here is the list;
> >
> >Lancair 320 Promo tape
> >Christen world of aerobatics
> >Power by Victor - Victor Black discusses engines
> >GlaStar Promo tape
> >Orndorff 6/8 Emp: Rudder
> > Elevator
> > Trim Tab
> >Orndorff 6/8 Emp: Horizontal Stab
> > Rear Spar
> > Front spar
> > Skinning
> > Vert. Stab
> > Rudder
> >
> >Notice how I sweetened the pot at the end ;>)
> >**************************************************
> >Jody Villa Tewksbury, NJ USA
> >
> >*************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Are Barstad <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
Boy, you guys are sure getting me confused... :) I have been out spending money
today and paid for my fuselage in full to get it ASAP (yeah!! - Molson time as
soon as I get home!). I was also going to put in an order for the PSS system
but...
The PSS kit can be installed as a retrofit easily since I already prepared for
plumbing it. After much consideration I have decided to finish my RV-8, fly it
and do some testing. If my RV-8's tail shakes before stall like Randy Lervold,
Brian Denk and Terry Burch described earlier in the 'tail shake' thread, then
I probably won't need anything. IF there is no shake and IF... the people here
that are installing the PSS or LRI system in their RV's find that it really
is a cat's behind, then I might buy it. If not, then maybe a home-brew stall
horn (unless of course I don't need anything...). Sure, it would be nice to instantly
know max range and max endurance, ideal cruise climb etc, but it doesn't
take much to figure this out within acceptable tolerances. It would be nice,
but at the cost (CDN$1274.00 for PSS) it doesn't hurt to wait. I can float down
the runway for a while until I figure it out... :) I don't know of any fields
around here (except heli-pads and my back yard) that can't take an RV even
if it comes in 15 mph fast.
Are
RV-8 Wings (Fuse on order - AoA devices on the shelf... for now)
>
> From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
> Date: 2001/08/03 Fri PM 12:15:26 EDT
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
>
>
> Thanks, Tim. That was the post I was thinking of in my previous post
> which questioned the validity of the data these devices present. Again,
> not intending to flame the manufacturers of these devices, I'm a
> pragmatist and I get a little offended (well, not really, I find it a
> little humorous) when someone tries to sell us RVers something "it
> ain't", because I'm a dinosaur that relies on my airspeed indicator and
> the seat of my pants. I can't help but to think of those infomercials
> you see late at night where they spill red wine on white carpet and
> clean it up instantly with their $19.95 a bottle product.
>
> To oversimplify this subject, what are we trying to detect here? The
> onset of a stall. Seems to me that AOA devices detect some conditions
> of a stall (differential pressures) which does not take into account cg,
> flap settings, or loading or any other conditions that affect stall
> speed. So, these devices aren't telling you all that you need to know
> to avoid a stall, because there's other conditions that need to be
> measured to get the whole picture. Now, think about the homebuilt 20
> dollar stall detection vane. This device is telling you that airflow is
> beginning to separate from the outboard leading edge of the wing. It's
> telling you what you ultimately want to know. It doesn't cost $400 or
> $700. Its light and simple. It will work correctly under all
> conditions of cg, weight, flap, etc. (if its not iced up.) Simple to
> calibrate. If AOA devices were the best thing since sliced bread then
> all the spam manufacturers would be installing them, from a liability
> standpoint. Hmmm, they're still using those old, antiquated stall
> vanes...go figure. I think I will be adding a stall horn as Tim
> describes to my airplane sometime soon, after I do some more research.
> I'm wondering how big the vane needs to be, and how much force is
> required to close the switch, and if the arm of the microswitch could be
> used as a vane directly, provided it wasn't thin and flimsy. How far
> out do they need to hang in the breeze?
>
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying ~185 hours
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Murphy, Richard James (Rick)" <rjmurphy1(at)lucent.com> |
Ok Randy, Sold Me.
I'm just starting my RV and would look forward to a video guide on the
empanage. Can you suggest how I might contact, order videos from these good
people.
I'll be only too happy to help them ring the register.
Rick Murphy
> ----------
> From: rpflanze(at)iquest.net[SMTP:rpflanze(at)iquest.net]
> Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:58 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Cheap Videos
>
>
> I have a comment about reselling Orndorff videos. If you buy one that is
> resold,
> you may want to consider putting a few bucks in an envelope and sending it
> to
> George and Becki. They both have been on the list for years and are
> ardent
> RV supporters. They have never complained about their products being
> resold
> on the List even though doing so probably robs them of additional revenue
> that
> they are entitled to.
>
> I don't have any stake in GBI other than their products made it easier for
> me
> to get my RV in the air. I personally like to support those that make my
> hobby
> possible and think that most of us feel the same way too. I'm not against
> anyone
> who wants to resell the vidoes so please don't take this as a flame Jody.
> And
> I'm not wanting to start a big debate on the subject either. It's a
> personal
> choice. Do it or don't do it, I don't care either way. I just wanted to
> suggest
> it.
>
> For those of you that will ultimately take this post the wrong way and get
> angry
> over my suggestion, send your response to me directly rather than filling
> up
> the List with points and counter-points that won't change anyone's mind
> one
> way or the other.
>
> Randy Pflanzer N417G
> RV-6 (175 hours)
>
>
> >
> >In the process of cleaning out my video library for the move to a new
> >home I have come across some videos I would like to get rid of and
> >some of you might want. All I want is for you to pay for the shipping
> >and I would prefer you take all of them. Here is the list;
> >
> >Lancair 320 Promo tape
> >Christen world of aerobatics
> >Power by Victor - Victor Black discusses engines
> >GlaStar Promo tape
> >Orndorff 6/8 Emp: Rudder
> > Elevator
> > Trim Tab
> >Orndorff 6/8 Emp: Horizontal Stab
> > Rear Spar
> > Front spar
> > Skinning
> > Vert. Stab
> > Rudder
> >
> >Notice how I sweetened the pot at the end ;>)
> >**************************************************
> >Jody Villa Tewksbury, NJ USA
> >
> >*************************************************
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: OFF-List: Cheap Videos |
Hahaha...ok, well I got a good laugh at this one. Guess Al forgot to change
the address when he hit reply. Been there, done that....of course I never
got caught bad mouthing someone when I did it. Too funny.
Oh, and while you do-gooders are at it...please send a check to the car
company of choice every time you buy a used car. Don't forget the one to
lycoming when you buy a used engine and if you go the new engine
route...demand that you pay retail..after all it is your fair share.
Bill
Never heard anything so ridiculous in my life
-4 wings
>
> Off-List
>
> Randy,
>
> You're an all right guy. That was a very well written and thoughtful
post.
> If more people felt that way it would be a better world. In my case
Geipel
> is low balling to make sales to RVers but I also know that he is charging
> $35 shipping and I'm not charging RVer's shipping but the minute I post
> that he'll match me. Oh well if more people thought like you do it would
> be a lot easier to make stuff available to RV builders and a lot harder
for
> the JPI's and Geipels. Take care and thanks on behalf of George and
> Becky......Al
>
> Al Mojzisik
> InAir Instruments, LLC
> Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI)
> AOA and SO much more!
> http://www.liftreserve.com
>
> >
> >I have a comment about reselling Orndorff videos. If you buy one that is
> >resold,
> >you may want to consider putting a few bucks in an envelope and sending
it to
> >George and Becki. They both have been on the list for years and are
ardent
> >RV supporters. They have never complained about their products being
resold
> >on the List even though doing so probably robs them of additional revenue
that
> >they are entitled to.
> >
> >I don't have any stake in GBI other than their products made it easier
for me
> >to get my RV in the air. I personally like to support those that make my
> >hobby
> >possible and think that most of us feel the same way too. I'm not
against
> >anyone
> >who wants to resell the vidoes so please don't take this as a flame Jody.
And
> >I'm not wanting to start a big debate on the subject either. It's a
personal
> >choice. Do it or don't do it, I don't care either way. I just wanted to
> >suggest
> >it.
> >
> >For those of you that will ultimately take this post the wrong way and
get
> >angry
> >over my suggestion, send your response to me directly rather than filling
up
> >the List with points and counter-points that won't change anyone's mind
one
> >way or the other.
> >
> >Randy Pflanzer N417G
> >RV-6 (175 hours)
> >
> >
> > >
> > >In the process of cleaning out my video library for the move to a new
> > >home I have come across some videos I would like to get rid of and
> > >some of you might want. All I want is for you to pay for the shipping
> > >and I would prefer you take all of them. Here is the list;
> > >
> > >Lancair 320 Promo tape
> > >Christen world of aerobatics
> > >Power by Victor - Victor Black discusses engines
> > >GlaStar Promo tape
> > >Orndorff 6/8 Emp: Rudder
> > > Elevator
> > > Trim Tab
> > >Orndorff 6/8 Emp: Horizontal Stab
> > > Rear Spar
> > > Front spar
> > > Skinning
> > > Vert. Stab
> > > Rudder
> > >
> > >Notice how I sweetened the pot at the end ;>)
> > >**************************************************
> > >Jody Villa Tewksbury, NJ USA
> > >
> > >*************************************************
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Todd W. Rudberg" <todd_rudberg(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Aileron Attach and alignment. |
I tried to align the ailerons to the wing last night. Came up with an
interesting problem.
First of all I followed Van's plans which says to attach the A-406 and
A-407 as the last step of Aileron assembly prior to attaching to wing --
mistake! I assumed this was to be done in that order . Then I read the
posts concerning this issue and watched the Ordinoff video on the
subject and found that these really should be drilled during attachment
and after alignment to the wing. Well, guess what...the aileron is
shifted off the OML (outer mold line) toward the bottom skin by .100".
It looks bad to me. It is the same inboard and outboard, so there is no
twist and the effects are only cosmetic. I guess not a big deal, I
ordered new brackets...
But, I also noticed that the tooling holes for the aileron are off the
chord line toward the top of the wing. This conflicts with the posts I
have read that say to make the tooling holes collinear for perfect
aileron alignment. Aligning the tooling holes in the aileron to the
tooling holes in the main and tip ribs would exacerbate the problem
mentioned above. What gives? The aileron is very straight, I built it
on a piece of granite and there was no measurable twist. I took time to
dial in the wing to the jig then dowelled it in position...nothing moved
during assembly. I verified this after all the drilling was done.
The tooling holes on the main and tip ribs appear to be collinear with
the chord, but I am not too sure that the aileron are...at least on my
kit. To see what I am talking about please see the page I made
concerning this issue:
http://www.geocities.com/todd_rudberg/a_and_f_attach.html
Lastly, how much gap do you guys end up with from the top skin to the
Aileron skin. It looks like a lot to me and moving the aileron toward
the top skin will only alleviate it a small amount. Probably an attempt
by Van's to make it harder to tell if the OML of the main skins and the
aileron skins are off something like .100" :-).
When I figure out what to do, I will update this page so that those who
follow can at least see what I learned about this annoying subject.
Todd W. Rudberg
RV-8 Wings (N232TB Reserved)
mailto:todd_rudberg(at)yahoo.com
www.geocities.com/todd_rudberg
Home: (425)290-7526
Cell: (425)870-5300
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
Subject: | Re: OFF-List: Cheap Videos |
OOOOOOOoppppps...........
Well as you can probably tell that was supposed to be off list....... What
an embarrassing mistake. Sorry........ AL
>
>Off-List
>
>Randy,
>
>You're an all right guy. That was a very well written and thoughtful post.
>If more people felt that way it would be a better world. In my case Geipel
>is low balling to make sales to RVers but I also know that he is charging
>$35 shipping and I'm not charging RVer's shipping but the minute I post
>that he'll match me. Oh well if more people thought like you do it would
>be a lot easier to make stuff available to RV builders and a lot harder for
>the JPI's and Geipels. Take care and thanks on behalf of George and
>Becky......Al
>
>Al Mojzisik
>InAir Instruments, LLC
>Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI)
>AOA and SO much more!
>http://www.liftreserve.com
>
> >
> >I have a comment about reselling Orndorff videos. If you buy one that is
> >resold,
> >you may want to consider putting a few bucks in an envelope and sending
> it to
> >George and Becki. They both have been on the list for years and are ardent
> >RV supporters. They have never complained about their products being resold
> >on the List even though doing so probably robs them of additional
> revenue that
> >they are entitled to.
> >
> >I don't have any stake in GBI other than their products made it easier
> for me
> >to get my RV in the air. I personally like to support those that make my
> >hobby
> >possible and think that most of us feel the same way too. I'm not against
> >anyone
> >who wants to resell the vidoes so please don't take this as a flame
> Jody. And
> >I'm not wanting to start a big debate on the subject either. It's a
> personal
> >choice. Do it or don't do it, I don't care either way. I just wanted to
> >suggest
> >it.
> >
> >For those of you that will ultimately take this post the wrong way and get
> >angry
> >over my suggestion, send your response to me directly rather than filling up
> >the List with points and counter-points that won't change anyone's mind one
> >way or the other.
> >
> >Randy Pflanzer N417G
> >RV-6 (175 hours)
Al Mojzisik
InAir Instruments, LLC
Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI)
AOA and SO much more!
http://www.liftreserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Fuselage-mounted strobes |
Has anyone experience with installing or using the tiny, white, tail
strobelight assembly as a flashing, anti-collision light mounted on the
belly or the vert stab top?
Thanks, Scott,-6 in Vancouver>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Oil cooler size |
>
>RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk"
> I'm doing OK with a seven row, behind cylinder #4, and a cool collar heat
>sink on the oil filter
>
>Brian,
>Can you tell me more about the "cool collar heat sink" for the oil filter
>and where to get one?
>
>Thanks,
>Wes Hays
>
Wes, and all the other curious listers,
The "cool collar" is available from JC Whitney. It costs a whopping $17, and
simply slips over the oil filter and is held in place with a single hose
clamp. It's a soft aluminum alloy machined with cooling fins. You spread it
out a bit to slip over the filter, and put it on. Can be done in minutes.
Simple and effective. Seems to knock my peak oil temp down 5-10 degrees and
slows the rate of temperature rise during climbs.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
240 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> |
http://www.fly-gbi.com/
They sell some other great stuff for the RV builder as well...
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Murphy, Richard
James (Rick)
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:48 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Cheap Videos
Ok Randy, Sold Me.
I'm just starting my RV and would look forward to a video guide on the
empanage. Can you suggest how I might contact, order videos from these good
people.
I'll be only too happy to help them ring the register.
Rick Murphy
> ----------
> From: rpflanze(at)iquest.net[SMTP:rpflanze(at)iquest.net]
> Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:58 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Cheap Videos
>
>
> I have a comment about reselling Orndorff videos. If you buy one that is
> resold,
> you may want to consider putting a few bucks in an envelope and sending it
> to
> George and Becki. They both have been on the list for years and are
> ardent
> RV supporters. They have never complained about their products being
> resold
> on the List even though doing so probably robs them of additional revenue
> that
> they are entitled to.
>
> I don't have any stake in GBI other than their products made it easier for
> me
> to get my RV in the air. I personally like to support those that make my
> hobby
> possible and think that most of us feel the same way too. I'm not against
> anyone
> who wants to resell the vidoes so please don't take this as a flame Jody.
> And
> I'm not wanting to start a big debate on the subject either. It's a
> personal
> choice. Do it or don't do it, I don't care either way. I just wanted to
> suggest
> it.
>
> For those of you that will ultimately take this post the wrong way and get
> angry
> over my suggestion, send your response to me directly rather than filling
> up
> the List with points and counter-points that won't change anyone's mind
> one
> way or the other.
>
> Randy Pflanzer N417G
> RV-6 (175 hours)
>
>
> >
> >In the process of cleaning out my video library for the move to a new
> >home I have come across some videos I would like to get rid of and
> >some of you might want. All I want is for you to pay for the shipping
> >and I would prefer you take all of them. Here is the list;
> >
> >Lancair 320 Promo tape
> >Christen world of aerobatics
> >Power by Victor - Victor Black discusses engines
> >GlaStar Promo tape
> >Orndorff 6/8 Emp: Rudder
> > Elevator
> > Trim Tab
> >Orndorff 6/8 Emp: Horizontal Stab
> > Rear Spar
> > Front spar
> > Skinning
> > Vert. Stab
> > Rudder
> >
> >Notice how I sweetened the pot at the end ;>)
> >**************************************************
> >Jody Villa Tewksbury, NJ USA
> >
> >*************************************************
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
Subject: | AOA / LRI in ice |
Once the PSS holes ice up your done. The LRI with its heated probe will give
you a qualitative indication, meaning it will show a loss of lift available
but it will not be quantitative. How much lift is available.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Haywire
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:11 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: AOA / LRI in ice
So heated pressure ports/probes for these systems are really not worth
anything ?
S. Todd Bartrim
13B RV-9
CF-STB (reserved)
Fuselage
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
> Sent: August 2, 2001 5:48 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: AOA / LRI in ice
>
>
> >
> > Hi All;
> > Something that nobody has mentioned, but that I am
> curious about.
> >Each of these systems requires that you calibrate it to your specific
> >airfoil by performing a series of manoeuvres in a test flight. Once done,
> >these systems measure the aoa/lift of that specific airfoil
> shape. Now when
> >you encounter severe enough ice to approach a stall, the wing will have
> >accumulated enough ice to change shape and will not be the same
> airfoil that
> >your system is calibrated for.
> > Does this sound reasonable?
> >With that said I would like to add that I do own the PSS AOA
> sport model, to
> >be installed in my RV-9, and I do believe them to be an
> extremely valuable
> >tool.*
> >
> >S. Todd Bartrim
>
> You are 100% right. Add some ice and the AOA indicator is now pretty
> much useless. But, you'll likely collect ice in cruise, at a speed
> well above the stall speed, so you shouldn't stall it then.
> Hopefully you can remember to add a few knots on approach if you
> still have ice on the aircraft.
>
> If you are collecting ice on the wing. you should be changing
> altitudes right now, even if you have to declare an emergency to do
> it. Thinner airfoils collect ice much faster than thick ones. So,
> if you are seeing ice start to collect on the wings you probably
> already have a lot of ice on the prop, and some ice on the HS and VS.
>
> Take care,
>
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
Subject: | Re: Reasons to use AOA devices |
Some like them some don't. Important thing is to use one. Best way to fly.
Unless you have a smart enough pair of jeans thus able to fly bythe seat of
your pants that you can tell in a 3 G turn when the airplane will stall. Or
Vmc. or Vx, which changes with altitude, Vy, which changes with altitude,
but the AOA remains constant, slowest possible speed for lift off, slowest
safest approach speed etc.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Johnson
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: Re: RV-List: Reasons to use AOA devices
This has been a useful topic and has made me think about putting a PSS in my
RV-8. I have plenty of time in Citabrias, but it might be good life
insurance in a high performance plane. Anybody else wondering if they would
be bothered by the aural warning during a normal full stall landing?
Steve Johnson
RV-8 finishing wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: Re: RV-List: Reasons to use AOA devices
>
> Excellent post Mike!
>
> What we do know is that an AOA indicator will not in any way make your
plane unsafe - it can only make it safer when installed, calibrated and used
properly.
>
> The cost of an AOA system regardless of you deciding to use it as a backup
or use your ASI as backup is worth it if it only saves your life _once_ that
time when you're looking at something not paying attention (heaven forbid)
and you hear the voice saying "Angle, Push!".
> Personally I'll stick with PSS since I already prepared for it and since
it's combined with an aural indicator. The others are probably just as
good - only different flavours.
>
> Are
> RV-8 Wings
>
> >
> > From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
> > Date: 2001/08/02 Thu PM 02:07:38 EDT
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Reasons to use AOA devices
> >
> >
> > Are,
> >
> > Unlike the airspeed indicator, the AOA device senses the same pressures
that
> > your airfoil sees. The AOA then displays that angle of attack almost
> > instantly. Not only does it tell you when you've reached a critical
angle
> > of attack, it also shows the trend on the display and warns you AS YOU
> > APPROACH that critical angle of attack.
> >
> > One of these days when our planes are complete, we'll be up at a safe
> > altitude and pull up to see how that newly built baby will climb. If we
> > pull up hard and wait for the airspeed indicator to get to the stall
speed,
> > you will most certainly have already stalled and started your recovery
well
> > before the ASI gets to stall speed.
> >
> > We all practice (or should practice) stalls in the departure and landing
> > configurations. We're set up for it, we're looking for it and we can
feel
> > the controls as we get close to it. No problem. We correct our control
> > inputs and go about our business. None of the stories I've read about,
> > where pilots have stalled and died, happened while they were practicing
> > stalls. No, they were doing something else. Maybe they were flying
along
> > at a slow speed to check out the neighborhood. Eyes outside, they see
> > something they like and turn to check it out. As you said, eyes
outside,
> > flying the airplane. Maybe you get distracted at slow flight and turn
to
> > look at something and inadvertently give that sensitive RV stick a
little
> > tug more than you meant to (a certain John Denver story comes to mind).
> >
> > There are a bazillion scenarios that can hurt you and I don't think it
has
> > anything to do with being a good pilot or not. Lots of good pilots have
met
> > their maker in stall/spin accidents. A certain, very experienced,
Glassair
> > pilot last week at OSH with a bunch of hours comes to mind also.
> >
> > Looking at the AOA indicator is no different than looking at the
airspeed
> > indicator. We can fly with our heads outside the cockpit all day long
but
> > we still look at the airspeed indicator when flying slow. Why do we do
> > that? Cause we don't want to fly to slow and stall. Why not look at an
> > instrument that gives you more information than an airspeed indicator?
You
> > can still "fly with your head outside the cockpit". I can't speak for
the
> > others, but the PSS AOA instrument gives an audible warning as you NEAR
the
> > critical AOA. Get a little slow inadvertently and that cute little
voice
> > wakes you from your day dream "Angle, Angle, Push".
> >
> > Many of us are installing heated pitot/static systems in the
anticipation of
> > flying in the clouds or at night. Departing in IFR conditions
regardless of
> > airport density altitude or aircraft weight, I can't think of anything
> > better than taking off, setting up a departure angle of attack and be on
my
> > merry way. A quick crosscheck with the ASI might just remind you that
you
> > forgot to turn on the pitot as the airspeed indicator winds down.
> >
> > Lots of planes have been flying lots of years without using an AOA
devices.
> > They will continue to do so. Lots of planes have been flying lots of
years
> > without GPS too, but having one sure makes getting lost harder to do.
> >
> > Flying by AOA sure makes inadvertent stalling less likely also.
> >
> > Thanks for the good discussion.
> >
> > Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> > Plainfield, IL
> > RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
> > Stinson 108-2 N9666K
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
Subject: | Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
Come to minnesota we will take you for a ride. Think about this though. PSS
anf LRI both use differential pressure. They both measure the same thing.
They both are on one wing, they both need to be in unobstructed airflow. How
do you like your display? Thats your choice.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Lewis
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 8:53 PM
Subject: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
It appears to be time for the annual LRI discussion. We hit this topic
in Nov 98, Oct 99, Mar 00, and now Aug 01. It's an interesting topic.
I've found having an audible stall warning system to be invaluable.
On a couple of occasions I've allowed my attention to wander from
airspeed, got slow while down low (circling at the direction of the
tower, while looking for traffic), and had the stall warning activate. I
think it can be a life saver in "low and slow" situations.
The Piper style stall tab warns of stall based on air flow change that
occurs before the wing stalls. True AoA systems (Rite Angle, PSS,
others), if equipped with an audible device, can sound warning of a
stall based on the fact that a given wing stalls at the same AoA,
regardless of airspeed. These are well understood principles.
The situation isn't so clear with the LRI. Way back on 28 Nov 98 Peter
Bennett posted a well thought out mathematical analysis (available in
the archives, search for "pbennett & LRI") that questions whether the
LRI gives the same stall warning in all weight and G loading
conditions. Peter's analysis is straight forward, and convinced me that
the LRI web site's claims of "Reliable under all conditions of weight...
flap position... angle of bank" are suspect. To the best of my
knowledge, nobody has published rigorous flight test data to support
the LRI claims. One acquaintance of mine "rolled his own" LRI type
device (based on the drawings and info in the LRI patent) and
reported that at high G loads the unit gave an inappropriately high
indication of "lift reserve" when the aircraft stalled. That data (not
from a commercially produced LRI unit) seems to support Peter's 1998
analysis. I'd sure like to see some actual flight test data showing LRI
indication vs stall speed across a broad range of aircraft weights and
G loading.
By the way, builders can make and install a Piper-style audible stall
warning system for the cost of a switch, some aluminum, and a couple
of small screws and bolts. Pictures and measurements are at my web
site, http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a/stall.htm.
Tim Lewis
Just returned from OSH, with 260 hours on RV-6A N47TD
******
Tim Lewis -- Fairfax, VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
******
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
Subject: | OFF-List: Cheap Videos |
Shipping is $20 from us. That makes it $420. We have always been fair with
the RV guys. We have always given Rv folks a better deal. Ya'll need to
check the facts before "Flaming" as you say. Are Oshkosh orders all paid $20
shipping. Insured priority mail and packaging does cost.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Al Mojzisik
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: OFF-List: Cheap Videos
OOOOOOOoppppps...........
Well as you can probably tell that was supposed to be off list....... What
an embarrassing mistake. Sorry........ AL
>
>Off-List
>
>Randy,
>
>You're an all right guy. That was a very well written and thoughtful post.
>If more people felt that way it would be a better world. In my case Geipel
>is low balling to make sales to RVers but I also know that he is charging
>$35 shipping and I'm not charging RVer's shipping but the minute I post
>that he'll match me. Oh well if more people thought like you do it would
>be a lot easier to make stuff available to RV builders and a lot harder for
>the JPI's and Geipels. Take care and thanks on behalf of George and
>Becky......Al
>
>Al Mojzisik
>InAir Instruments, LLC
>Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI)
>AOA and SO much more!
>http://www.liftreserve.com
>
> >
> >I have a comment about reselling Orndorff videos. If you buy one that is
> >resold,
> >you may want to consider putting a few bucks in an envelope and sending
> it to
> >George and Becki. They both have been on the list for years and are
ardent
> >RV supporters. They have never complained about their products being
resold
> >on the List even though doing so probably robs them of additional
> revenue that
> >they are entitled to.
> >
> >I don't have any stake in GBI other than their products made it easier
> for me
> >to get my RV in the air. I personally like to support those that make my
> >hobby
> >possible and think that most of us feel the same way too. I'm not
against
> >anyone
> >who wants to resell the vidoes so please don't take this as a flame
> Jody. And
> >I'm not wanting to start a big debate on the subject either. It's a
> personal
> >choice. Do it or don't do it, I don't care either way. I just wanted to
> >suggest
> >it.
> >
> >For those of you that will ultimately take this post the wrong way and
get
> >angry
> >over my suggestion, send your response to me directly rather than filling
up
> >the List with points and counter-points that won't change anyone's mind
one
> >way or the other.
> >
> >Randy Pflanzer N417G
> >RV-6 (175 hours)
Al Mojzisik
InAir Instruments, LLC
Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI)
AOA and SO much more!
http://www.liftreserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
Subject: | Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
LRI mounts easily in the aileron bell crank inspection panel.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Are Barstad
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
Boy, you guys are sure getting me confused... :) I have been out spending
money today and paid for my fuselage in full to get it ASAP (yeah!! - Molson
time as soon as I get home!). I was also going to put in an order for the
PSS system but...
The PSS kit can be installed as a retrofit easily since I already prepared
for plumbing it. After much consideration I have decided to finish my RV-8,
fly it and do some testing. If my RV-8's tail shakes before stall like Randy
Lervold, Brian Denk and Terry Burch described earlier in the 'tail shake'
thread, then I probably won't need anything. IF there is no shake and IF...
the people here that are installing the PSS or LRI system in their RV's find
that it really is a cat's behind, then I might buy it. If not, then maybe a
home-brew stall horn (unless of course I don't need anything...). Sure, it
would be nice to instantly know max range and max endurance, ideal cruise
climb etc, but it doesn't take much to figure this out within acceptable
tolerances. It would be nice, but at the cost (CDN$1274.00 for PSS) it
doesn't hurt to wait. I can float down the runway for a while until I figure
it out... :) I don't know of any fields around here (except heli-pads and my
back yard) !
that can't take an RV even if it comes in 15 mph fast.
Are
RV-8 Wings (Fuse on order - AoA devices on the shelf... for now)
>
> From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
> Date: 2001/08/03 Fri PM 12:15:26 EDT
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
>
>
> Thanks, Tim. That was the post I was thinking of in my previous post
> which questioned the validity of the data these devices present. Again,
> not intending to flame the manufacturers of these devices, I'm a
> pragmatist and I get a little offended (well, not really, I find it a
> little humorous) when someone tries to sell us RVers something "it
> ain't", because I'm a dinosaur that relies on my airspeed indicator and
> the seat of my pants. I can't help but to think of those infomercials
> you see late at night where they spill red wine on white carpet and
> clean it up instantly with their $19.95 a bottle product.
>
> To oversimplify this subject, what are we trying to detect here? The
> onset of a stall. Seems to me that AOA devices detect some conditions
> of a stall (differential pressures) which does not take into account cg,
> flap settings, or loading or any other conditions that affect stall
> speed. So, these devices aren't telling you all that you need to know
> to avoid a stall, because there's other conditions that need to be
> measured to get the whole picture. Now, think about the homebuilt 20
> dollar stall detection vane. This device is telling you that airflow is
> beginning to separate from the outboard leading edge of the wing. It's
> telling you what you ultimately want to know. It doesn't cost $400 or
> $700. Its light and simple. It will work correctly under all
> conditions of cg, weight, flap, etc. (if its not iced up.) Simple to
> calibrate. If AOA devices were the best thing since sliced bread then
> all the spam manufacturers would be installing them, from a liability
> standpoint. Hmmm, they're still using those old, antiquated stall
> vanes...go figure. I think I will be adding a stall horn as Tim
> describes to my airplane sometime soon, after I do some more research.
> I'm wondering how big the vane needs to be, and how much force is
> required to close the switch, and if the arm of the microswitch could be
> used as a vane directly, provided it wasn't thin and flimsy. How far
> out do they need to hang in the breeze?
>
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying ~185 hours
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
After losing another friend in an RV accident I decided that an AOA was a
good idea. Jerry VanGrunsven has the PSS AOA in his RV-6A and he is so
happy with it that he is also installing one in his new 8A. Jerry has been
flying RV's a long time and if he thinks he needs one what makes me think
that I don't? I have always been very careful with my flying but I recognize
that so have a lot of other people that are not here anymore and I only have
250 hours TT. There is a reason that most production airplanes have stall
warning devices and it is not just because they wanted to increase the price.
I should have the PSS AOA Professional installed this weekend and I will let
you all know what I think of it.
Fly safe - other peoples actions do effect us all, wether it be in increased
insurance rates or family, friends, and public opinions of our flying.
Rob Hickman
RV-4 IO-360 CS & soon to be AOA equipped
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "George McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca> |
Subject: | Baffeling Question |
Engine Cooling Baffles
I am making the engine cooling baffles for my 6-A (0-320) from paper
patterns that I purchased from Vans, however there were no instructions
supplied with the drawings so I have the following question.
At the cowling air inlets,- how close should the baffle inlet floor be to
the underside of the cowling air inlet, or should the floor be cut off just
short of the fiberglass with a seal projecting forward underneath the
fiberglass?
A nice tight fit with the aluminum under the fiberglass looks best but does
not allow for the engine to rock on the engine mounts.
Thanks,
George McNutt
Baffeling in Langley, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Aileron Attach and alignment. |
From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
05:05:10 PM
Dude, you been Van-dalized!
Use that silly wooden template as a holder to hold the aileron/flap off the
floor. Tooling holes are for tooling, they have no place in this equation.
What matters here? Well, its an airfoil, I'm no aerodynamicist but I did
beat one up in a bar once, I still tend to think that airflow is pretty
important. Not meaning to disenfranchise tooling holes the world over but,
for my money I like to think in the terms of Mr. air molecule. There he is
floating along nice and happy when whoosh the nicely backriveted airscoop
(the wing) skims by him. Well naturally he wants to grab ahold for a
second, but this is not what you want. What you want is for Mr. air
molecule to just slide on by due to a perfectly flat skin line. By skin
line I mean top skin of the wing flowing smoothly into the top skin of the
aileron. It sure looks nice too. Remember, Mr. air molecules cousin is
under the wing trying to grab ahold of the leading edge of the aileron. If
you don't get that aileron up nice and tight to the top skin of the wing
you are dragging that leading edge every where you go. So how do you know?
Its real easy, take a 4' ruler and clamp it to the top outboard skin where
you mount your wing tip. With the aileron in the wooden template/holders,
clamp the outboard overhang of the aileron top skin to the ruler. Get the
lower wing clamp and the upper aileron clamp as close together as you can.
Theres your position. Now lock it in with your NEW brackets, make sure the
wooden holders don't interfere. Thats as good as you can get. The ruler
won't lie. Now cut two pieces of scrap that you can use to trap the skin
overhangs of the flap and aileron where they come together. Lock the
aileron into position with the outboard ruler. Now put a clecoe through the
two pieces of scrap (one on top of the skins one under) this will sandwich
the flap to the aileron and let you start matching the flaps position to
the perfect position of the aileron. You can take it from there.
BTW, I didn't really beat up an aerodynamicist. Those guys carry straight
razors in those pocket protectors ya know.
Eric Henson
"Todd W. Rudberg" (at)matronics.com on 08/03/2001
03:13:29 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV-List: Aileron Attach and alignment.
I tried to align the ailerons to the wing last night. Came up with an
interesting problem.
First of all I followed Van's plans which says to attach the A-406 and
A-407 as the last step of Aileron assembly prior to attaching to wing --
mistake! I assumed this was to be done in that order . Then I read the
posts concerning this issue and watched the Ordinoff video on the
subject and found that these really should be drilled during attachment
and after alignment to the wing. Well, guess what...the aileron is
shifted off the OML (outer mold line) toward the bottom skin by .100".
It looks bad to me. It is the same inboard and outboard, so there is no
twist and the effects are only cosmetic. I guess not a big deal, I
ordered new brackets...
But, I also noticed that the tooling holes for the aileron are off the
chord line toward the top of the wing. This conflicts with the posts I
have read that say to make the tooling holes collinear for perfect
aileron alignment. Aligning the tooling holes in the aileron to the
tooling holes in the main and tip ribs would exacerbate the problem
mentioned above. What gives? The aileron is very straight, I built it
on a piece of granite and there was no measurable twist. I took time to
dial in the wing to the jig then dowelled it in position...nothing moved
during assembly. I verified this after all the drilling was done.
The tooling holes on the main and tip ribs appear to be collinear with
the chord, but I am not too sure that the aileron are...at least on my
kit. To see what I am talking about please see the page I made
concerning this issue:
http://www.geocities.com/todd_rudberg/a_and_f_attach.html
Lastly, how much gap do you guys end up with from the top skin to the
Aileron skin. It looks like a lot to me and moving the aileron toward
the top skin will only alleviate it a small amount. Probably an attempt
by Van's to make it harder to tell if the OML of the main skins and the
aileron skins are off something like .100" :-).
When I figure out what to do, I will update this page so that those who
follow can at least see what I learned about this annoying subject.
Todd W. Rudberg
RV-8 Wings (N232TB Reserved)
mailto:todd_rudberg(at)yahoo.com
www.geocities.com/todd_rudberg
Home: (425)290-7526
Cell: (425)870-5300
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com> |
Subject: | Re: OFF-List: Cheap Videos |
Bill,
Aren't you the guy that doesn't believe in contributing money to Matt for
the RV list? My humblest apologies if I am remembering wrong, but it all
seems to fit.
I will eagerly await your always creative and humorous flame.
Terry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: OFF-List: Cheap Videos
>
> Hahaha...ok, well I got a good laugh at this one. Guess Al forgot to
change
> the address when he hit reply. Been there, done that....of course I never
> got caught bad mouthing someone when I did it. Too funny.
>
> Oh, and while you do-gooders are at it...please send a check to the car
> company of choice every time you buy a used car. Don't forget the one to
> lycoming when you buy a used engine and if you go the new engine
> route...demand that you pay retail..after all it is your fair share.
>
> Bill
> Never heard anything so ridiculous in my life
> -4 wings
>
>
> >
> > Off-List
> >
> > Randy,
> >
> > You're an all right guy. That was a very well written and thoughtful
> post.
> > If more people felt that way it would be a better world. In my case
> Geipel
> > is low balling to make sales to RVers but I also know that he is
charging
> > $35 shipping and I'm not charging RVer's shipping but the minute I post
> > that he'll match me. Oh well if more people thought like you do it
would
> > be a lot easier to make stuff available to RV builders and a lot harder
> for
> > the JPI's and Geipels. Take care and thanks on behalf of George and
> > Becky......Al
> >
> > Al Mojzisik
> > InAir Instruments, LLC
> > Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI)
> > AOA and SO much more!
> > http://www.liftreserve.com
> >
> > >
> > >I have a comment about reselling Orndorff videos. If you buy one that
is
> > >resold,
> > >you may want to consider putting a few bucks in an envelope and sending
> it to
> > >George and Becki. They both have been on the list for years and are
> ardent
> > >RV supporters. They have never complained about their products being
> resold
> > >on the List even though doing so probably robs them of additional
revenue
> that
> > >they are entitled to.
> > >
> > >I don't have any stake in GBI other than their products made it easier
> for me
> > >to get my RV in the air. I personally like to support those that make
my
> > >hobby
> > >possible and think that most of us feel the same way too. I'm not
> against
> > >anyone
> > >who wants to resell the vidoes so please don't take this as a flame
Jody.
> And
> > >I'm not wanting to start a big debate on the subject either. It's a
> personal
> > >choice. Do it or don't do it, I don't care either way. I just wanted
to
> > >suggest
> > >it.
> > >
> > >For those of you that will ultimately take this post the wrong way and
> get
> > >angry
> > >over my suggestion, send your response to me directly rather than
filling
> up
> > >the List with points and counter-points that won't change anyone's mind
> one
> > >way or the other.
> > >
> > >Randy Pflanzer N417G
> > >RV-6 (175 hours)
> > >
> > >
>
> > > >
> > > >In the process of cleaning out my video library for the move to a new
> > > >home I have come across some videos I would like to get rid of and
> > > >some of you might want. All I want is for you to pay for the shipping
> > > >and I would prefer you take all of them. Here is the list;
> > > >
> > > >Lancair 320 Promo tape
> > > >Christen world of aerobatics
> > > >Power by Victor - Victor Black discusses engines
> > > >GlaStar Promo tape
> > > >Orndorff 6/8 Emp: Rudder
> > > > Elevator
> > > > Trim Tab
> > > >Orndorff 6/8 Emp: Horizontal Stab
> > > > Rear Spar
> > > > Front spar
> > > > Skinning
> > > > Vert. Stab
> > > > Rudder
> > > >
> > > >Notice how I sweetened the pot at the end ;>)
> > > >**************************************************
> > > >Jody Villa Tewksbury, NJ USA
> > > >
> > > >*************************************************
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Baffeling Question |
George,
The baffle kit plans say 3/8" clearance and the baffle seal covers the gap.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
RV6...finish kit
----- Original Message -----
From: George McNutt <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 4:08 PM
Subject: RV-List: Baffeling Question
>
>
> Engine Cooling Baffles
>
> I am making the engine cooling baffles for my 6-A (0-320) from paper
> patterns that I purchased from Vans, however there were no instructions
> supplied with the drawings so I have the following question.
>
> At the cowling air inlets,- how close should the baffle inlet floor be to
> the underside of the cowling air inlet, or should the floor be cut off
just
> short of the fiberglass with a seal projecting forward underneath the
> fiberglass?
>
> A nice tight fit with the aluminum under the fiberglass looks best but
does
> not allow for the engine to rock on the engine mounts.
>
> Thanks,
>
> George McNutt
> Baffeling in Langley, B.C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Jessen <jjessen(at)cmbinfo.com> |
Subject: | Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
Folks:
I have not particularly enjoyed this thread, but one thing is true, a stall
warning device of some type needs to be on the plane. I will do my own
research about what type is best, but I would encourage a full range of test
numbers be published that takes into account various configurations, flight
attitudes, altitudes, etc. If such has been done, then I'd appreciate where
I can read about it and study it.
The free market is obviously alive and well on the site, but given that we
are talking safety here, let's examine the performance numbers as openly as
we debate shipping charges and OSH specials.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com [mailto:RobHickman(at)aol.com]
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
After losing another friend in an RV accident I decided that an AOA was a
good idea. Jerry VanGrunsven has the PSS AOA in his RV-6A and he is so
happy with it that he is also installing one in his new 8A. Jerry has been
flying RV's a long time and if he thinks he needs one what makes me think
that I don't? I have always been very careful with my flying but I
recognize
that so have a lot of other people that are not here anymore and I only have
250 hours TT. There is a reason that most production airplanes have stall
warning devices and it is not just because they wanted to increase the
price.
I should have the PSS AOA Professional installed this weekend and I will let
you all know what I think of it.
Fly safe - other peoples actions do effect us all, wether it be in increased
insurance rates or family, friends, and public opinions of our flying.
Rob Hickman
RV-4 IO-360 CS & soon to be AOA equipped
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrjb(at)msn.com> |
Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain Avionics (Dynon thread) |
Don,
I think I have one of those devices that you are talking about, an ipaq with
Anywhere Software. It is an absolute delight and I have flown over 11000
miles with it since SnF when I purchased it. It has never locked up once in
that time. I know that it can and plan to keep my klunker 195 up and running
as a backup and driving my Navaid, but the difference in the utility between
the 2 systems is not even in the same ball park, the ipaq is so far superior
that I would really feel naked flying without it again.
Bernie Kerr, 6A, SE Fla. . see my Alaska trip pictures and notes regarding
the ipaq at www.rotaryaviation.com or at Doug Reeves site under articles
From: "Don Hyde" <DonH(at)axonn.com>
.
>
> From user reports about the (I forget the name) WinCE-PDA-based system, it
> sounds like it crashes from time to time just like the Win98 on my
desktop.
> That means that during a cross-country that's long enough to use up a tank
> of gas, you can expect to have to reboot it once or twice.
>
> Now, I don't know about you, but the thought of having to reboot my entire
> instrument panel every couple of hours does not make me feel very good. I
> just know it will happen on final when I've misjudged the weather and it's
> worse than I thought it would be.
>
> TSO'ed instruments with software inside them (like GPS's) are required to
> pass (with a bunch of documentation) a bunch of software tests (DO-178B,
if
> my memory serves), that are designed to make sure it doesn't crash, and
that
> it gets the right answers to display on its screen.
>
> When one one of these guys can show that they've tested their software
that
> severely, then I'll be ready to throw out all the steam gauges and slap
one
> of these guys in (or preferably two, so I have a backup). Then my biggest
> problem will be what to do with all that empty panel space. My wife has
> suggested a bud vase...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
Subject: | Fuel System Plumbing Question |
The building of my RV 6 was 1990-1992 and the fuel system was plumbed as
per Van's instructions and drawings using soft aluminum tubing and his
standard fuel selector, Facet pump and firewall mounted gascolator with
Aero- Quip lines firewall forward connected to a carburettored 0360. The
only down side to this was the unhandy draining of the gascolator and
the need to have the Facet pump on to drain it.
Some years ago I changed to a Bendix fuel injection system which
resulted in the fuel pressure going from 4-5 pounds to 20-22 pounds. I
was uncomfortable putting this pressure through my gascolator so I moved
the gascolator into the gap between the fuselage and the tank on the
left side. This made it easy to drain and also eliminated the need to
use the boost pump to drain it because of the low location, all that is
required is to have the fuel selected on. In the event of a blown tank,
fuel from the other tank will gravity to the gascolator and now the
pumps will eliminate most of the delay in getting fuel back to the
engine.
The system is still basically the same retaining the original plumbing
but routing the line from the selector to the engine via the root
mounted gascolator then to the boost pump mounted low down in the
fuselage about were the landing gear weldment would be on the 6A then on
to the firewall. With the fuel injection system I debated the filter
question but realized that in all the years of flying both carburettored
and fuel injected I couldn't recall ever having anything but a
gascolator and screens in the systems, and with the gascolator's ability
to handle a fair amount of water and not wanting to add any more
restrictions in the fuel system decided against it.
In the fifty odd years of flying I have never had a incidence were fuel
contamination has been a problem. However I have only flown the Bendix
and Continental injection systems and the various pressure carburettor.
My control for this has been to use a funnel and filter if fueling out
of barrels or antiquated fueling systems which is a rare thing now days.
With the aircraft level drain some fuel out of the wing tanks and
gascolator before every flight, no exceptions.
I installed a purge valve when I went to fuel injection and find that I
get quicker starts and hot starts are about the same as cold starts once
I got used to it. On the purge valve I used a simple control, same as
the carb heat but have a spring which will keep it closed in the event
of a control failure. My return line from the purge valve goes back into
the left tank.
I have found that building to Van's drawings and instructions is
usually the best way to go, the simpler the better. An example is his
fuel selector valve, mine is ten years old and working the same as when
it was installed.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
Subject: | Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
Brian Lloyd reported on the flight testing he did on his PSS
installation back in January 1999. Go to the archives and search on
"AoA indicator report" (don't type the quote marks). Summary - once
he had it calibrated he found it was accurate flaps up and flaps
down, and at up to 4g (he didn't test at higher load factors). He
installed the system in a CJ-6, not his RV, but I suspect the basic
conclusions would be valid on RVs, if the system was properly
calibrated, and there were no leaks in the plumbing.
I'm not aware of any listers who reported detailed test results for
the LRI, but I could have missed it.
Some RV-8 builders report good stall warning buffet, so I'm not
installing an AOA system in my plane yet. But, if I'm not happy
with the natural stall warning after I get flying, I'll install one
of the systems. If I decide to install an AOA system, I hope to bum
a flight in an aircraft with each of the competing systems so I can
judge for myself which one I like the best. I want good aural or
tactile stall warning, far enough in advance of the stall so I can
take a second to go "WTF?" and recover before actually stalling. I
want the system to be accurate flaps up, down, and when pulling g.
Some listers have expressed concerns about the possible effect of CG
on the accuracy of AOA systems. The wing will stall at the same AOA
regardless of the CG. So, any system that uses airflow or pressure
around the wing to activate it should not be affected by CG.
There has also been a discussion about the effect of ice. Once you
have ice on the aircraft you can't trust the AOA systems to tell the
truth, but you can't rely on the airspeed indicator as a measure of
how far you are from stall either. Based on my experiences doing
flight testing with Styrofoam simulated ice shapes on wings and tails
(up to 1.5 inches of ice on the wing, and 3 inches on the tail), and
also with 40 grit sandpaper on the leading edges, a small amount of
ice can be even worse than a large amount of ice on some aircraft.
But, in either case you should be OK if you add 20 mph to your normal
approach speed. I would avoid the use of full flap, as some aircraft
have a tailplane stall problem with full flap if there is ice on the
HS leading edge. So, half flap would be a better bet. If in doubt,
try a slow reduction to your planned approach speed at altitude, so
see how the plane handles it (just like you did on your first flight).
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
>
>Folks:
>
>I have not particularly enjoyed this thread, but one thing is true, a stall
>warning device of some type needs to be on the plane. I will do my own
>research about what type is best, but I would encourage a full range of test
>numbers be published that takes into account various configurations, flight
>attitudes, altitudes, etc. If such has been done, then I'd appreciate where
>I can read about it and study it.
>
>The free market is obviously alive and well on the site, but given that we
>are talking safety here, let's examine the performance numbers as openly as
>we debate shipping charges and OSH specials.
>
>John
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: RobHickman(at)aol.com [mailto:RobHickman(at)aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 4:51 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
>
>
>After losing another friend in an RV accident I decided that an AOA was a
>good idea. Jerry VanGrunsven has the PSS AOA in his RV-6A and he is so
>happy with it that he is also installing one in his new 8A. Jerry has been
>flying RV's a long time and if he thinks he needs one what makes me think
>that I don't? I have always been very careful with my flying but I
>recognize
>that so have a lot of other people that are not here anymore and I only have
>
>250 hours TT. There is a reason that most production airplanes have stall
>warning devices and it is not just because they wanted to increase the
>price.
>
>
>I should have the PSS AOA Professional installed this weekend and I will let
>
>you all know what I think of it.
>
>Fly safe - other peoples actions do effect us all, wether it be in increased
>
>insurance rates or family, friends, and public opinions of our flying.
>
>Rob Hickman
>RV-4 IO-360 CS & soon to be AOA equipped
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
Subject: | OFF-List: Cheap Videos |
Oh Geeeez.... It must be getting that time of year again. What say we all
do a pre-emptive strike and mail Matt a check for $20-50.oo and skip that
whole darn thread.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Watson <tcwatson(at)seanet.com>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: OFF-List: Cheap Videos
>
> Bill,
>
> Aren't you the guy that doesn't believe in contributing money to Matt for
> the RV list? My humblest apologies if I am remembering wrong, but it all
> seems to fit.
>
> I will eagerly await your always creative and humorous flame.
>
> Terry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:13 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: OFF-List: Cheap Videos
>
>
> >
> > Hahaha...ok, well I got a good laugh at this one. Guess Al forgot to
> change
> > the address when he hit reply. Been there, done that....of course I
never
> > got caught bad mouthing someone when I did it. Too funny.
> >
> > Oh, and while you do-gooders are at it...please send a check to the car
> > company of choice every time you buy a used car. Don't forget the one
to
> > lycoming when you buy a used engine and if you go the new engine
> > route...demand that you pay retail..after all it is your fair share.
> >
> > Bill
> > Never heard anything so ridiculous in my life
> > -4 wings
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Off-List
> > >
> > > Randy,
> > >
> > > You're an all right guy. That was a very well written and thoughtful
> > post.
> > > If more people felt that way it would be a better world. In my case
> > Geipel
> > > is low balling to make sales to RVers but I also know that he is
> charging
> > > $35 shipping and I'm not charging RVer's shipping but the minute I
post
> > > that he'll match me. Oh well if more people thought like you do it
> would
> > > be a lot easier to make stuff available to RV builders and a lot
harder
> > for
> > > the JPI's and Geipels. Take care and thanks on behalf of George and
> > > Becky......Al
> > >
> > > Al Mojzisik
> > > InAir Instruments, LLC
> > > Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI)
> > > AOA and SO much more!
> > > http://www.liftreserve.com
> > >
> > > >
> > > >I have a comment about reselling Orndorff videos. If you buy one
that
> is
> > > >resold,
> > > >you may want to consider putting a few bucks in an envelope and
sending
> > it to
> > > >George and Becki. They both have been on the list for years and are
> > ardent
> > > >RV supporters. They have never complained about their products being
> > resold
> > > >on the List even though doing so probably robs them of additional
> revenue
> > that
> > > >they are entitled to.
> > > >
> > > >I don't have any stake in GBI other than their products made it
easier
> > for me
> > > >to get my RV in the air. I personally like to support those that
make
> my
> > > >hobby
> > > >possible and think that most of us feel the same way too. I'm not
> > against
> > > >anyone
> > > >who wants to resell the vidoes so please don't take this as a flame
> Jody.
> > And
> > > >I'm not wanting to start a big debate on the subject either. It's a
> > personal
> > > >choice. Do it or don't do it, I don't care either way. I just
wanted
> to
> > > >suggest
> > > >it.
> > > >
> > > >For those of you that will ultimately take this post the wrong way
and
> > get
> > > >angry
> > > >over my suggestion, send your response to me directly rather than
> filling
> > up
> > > >the List with points and counter-points that won't change anyone's
mind
> > one
> > > >way or the other.
> > > >
> > > >Randy Pflanzer N417G
> > > >RV-6 (175 hours)
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >
> > > > >In the process of cleaning out my video library for the move to a
new
> > > > >home I have come across some videos I would like to get rid of and
> > > > >some of you might want. All I want is for you to pay for the
shipping
> > > > >and I would prefer you take all of them. Here is the list;
> > > > >
> > > > >Lancair 320 Promo tape
> > > > >Christen world of aerobatics
> > > > >Power by Victor - Victor Black discusses engines
> > > > >GlaStar Promo tape
> > > > >Orndorff 6/8 Emp: Rudder
> > > > > Elevator
> > > > > Trim Tab
> > > > >Orndorff 6/8 Emp: Horizontal Stab
> > > > > Rear Spar
> > > > > Front spar
> > > > > Skinning
> > > > > Vert. Stab
> > > > > Rudder
> > > > >
> > > > >Notice how I sweetened the pot at the end ;>)
> > > > >**************************************************
> > > > >Jody Villa Tewksbury, NJ USA
> > > > >
> > > > >*************************************************
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Todd Rudberg <todd_rudberg(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Aileron Attach and alignment. |
Definitely Van-dalized...not the first time...usually
I read far enough ahead and catch it.
I agree with you on the tooling holes. They are not
an interesting part of this discussion. OML rules,
tooling holes are just that...tooling holes used by
Van's rib forming vendor.
Todd.
Tooling holes are for tooling, they have no
> place in this equation.
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Aileron Attach and alignment. |
FYI, a local professional builder has built 4 RV's
this way, and I recently got off the phone with Miles
at Van's and he suggested I re-align my ailerons using
the tooling holes instead of the wood template.
The wings are indeed designed off the tooling holes.
Think about it. If you were not consistant where the
location of the tooling holes were located, the ribs
would not be consistantly formed. Another check.
Align the wing to the aileron with the ruler method,
and then check your tooling holes. I'd bet the farm
that it is pretty darn close.
Paul
--- Todd Rudberg wrote:
>
>
> Definitely Van-dalized...not the first
> time...usually
> I read far enough ahead and catch it.
>
> I agree with you on the tooling holes. They are not
> an interesting part of this discussion. OML rules,
> tooling holes are just that...tooling holes used by
> Van's rib forming vendor.
>
>
> Todd.
>
> Tooling holes are for tooling, they have no
> > place in this equation.
>
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
Subject: | Re: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
Does the LRI compensate for the deployment of flaps? Does the LRI have an
audible alert?
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
> Come to minnesota we will take you for a ride. Think about this though.
PSS
> anf LRI both use differential pressure. They both measure the same thing.
> They both are on one wing, they both need to be in unobstructed airflow.
How
> do you like your display? Thats your choice.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Lewis
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 8:53 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
>
>
> It appears to be time for the annual LRI discussion. We hit this topic
> in Nov 98, Oct 99, Mar 00, and now Aug 01. It's an interesting topic.
>
> I've found having an audible stall warning system to be invaluable.
> On a couple of occasions I've allowed my attention to wander from
> airspeed, got slow while down low (circling at the direction of the
> tower, while looking for traffic), and had the stall warning activate. I
> think it can be a life saver in "low and slow" situations.
>
> The Piper style stall tab warns of stall based on air flow change that
> occurs before the wing stalls. True AoA systems (Rite Angle, PSS,
> others), if equipped with an audible device, can sound warning of a
> stall based on the fact that a given wing stalls at the same AoA,
> regardless of airspeed. These are well understood principles.
>
> The situation isn't so clear with the LRI. Way back on 28 Nov 98 Peter
> Bennett posted a well thought out mathematical analysis (available in
> the archives, search for "pbennett & LRI") that questions whether the
> LRI gives the same stall warning in all weight and G loading
> conditions. Peter's analysis is straight forward, and convinced me that
> the LRI web site's claims of "Reliable under all conditions of weight...
> flap position... angle of bank" are suspect. To the best of my
> knowledge, nobody has published rigorous flight test data to support
> the LRI claims. One acquaintance of mine "rolled his own" LRI type
> device (based on the drawings and info in the LRI patent) and
> reported that at high G loads the unit gave an inappropriately high
> indication of "lift reserve" when the aircraft stalled. That data (not
> from a commercially produced LRI unit) seems to support Peter's 1998
> analysis. I'd sure like to see some actual flight test data showing LRI
> indication vs stall speed across a broad range of aircraft weights and
> G loading.
>
> By the way, builders can make and install a Piper-style audible stall
> warning system for the cost of a switch, some aluminum, and a couple
> of small screws and bolts. Pictures and measurements are at my web
> site, http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a/stall.htm.
>
> Tim Lewis
> Just returned from OSH, with 260 hours on RV-6A N47TD
>
> ******
> Tim Lewis -- Fairfax, VA
> RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
> http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
> ******
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott.Fink(at)microchip.com |
Subject: | A/C Compressor for PA28-140 |
08/03/2001 04:38:28 PM,
Serialize complete at 08/03/2001 04:38:28 PM
This is kind of a long shot, but maybe somebody bought a PA28 wreck for
parts: Does anyone on the list (or off for that matter, but then they
wouldn't see
this post, would they?) happen to have an A/C compressor that they would
like to part with? It looks like it is the same for the PA28-140,
PA28-180,
PA28-181, and PA28R-200, and is Piper part number 555 412. It doesn't
have
to be in good shape, just rebuildable. I will check with Wentworth, etc.
on
Monday when they are open again, but hoping someone wants to clean out
their
hangar.
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
> So where would you use a NAS1097AD3 oops rivet? Do they make such a
> thing?
I use these (NAS1097AD3-X.X) all the time to mount platenuts on material
like .032 alu. sheet.
This way i do not have to have dimpled platenuts. the smaller head will
not countersink through the sheet aluminum.
Or are you actually looking for an AD4...
Nope, just the NAS1097AD3
Van's still sells them but not currently on the website.
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
> The PSS kit can be installed as a retrofit easily since I already prepared
for plumbing it. After much consideration I have decided to finish my RV-8,
fly it and do some testing. If my RV-8's tail shakes before stall like Randy
Lervold, Brian Denk and Terry Burch described earlier in the 'tail shake'
thread, then I probably won't need anything. IF there is no shake and IF...
the people here that are installing the PSS or LRI system in their RV's find
that it really is a cat's behind, then I might buy it.
Are (and others),
Let me clarify one thing... the pre-stall tail shake only occurs, in my
plane at least, in 1G stalls. I will go out and do some accelerated stalls
this weekend to verify what I think I remember here.
BTW, my informal survey of RV-8s that are flying reveals that 50-60% of them
exhibit the tail shake and 40-50% of them don't. I got into a very
interesting discussion standing around the RV area at Arlington with four
RV-8 flyers all at once. One of them said he had none at all, two of them
(including me) said that they had noticeable tail shake, and one described
his as "violent". The only other RV-8 that I've personally been up in was in
Florida and it was exactly like mine. Van's is working on this in their own
quiet way. I'm sure we'll know more about what is causing it, and whether it
needs to be addressed or not, within a few months.
FWIW,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, N558RL, 89.1 hrs
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
Weeelllll, not exactly. I really didn't want to get into this one, but
that last posting went a little far.
Yes, both PSS and LRI measure differential pressure but they DO NOT
measure the same thing. The PSS unit has ports on the top and bottom of
the wing, positioned according to the MAC of the airfoil. This pressure
differential can be mathematically converted to Coefficient of Lift
which is a simple function of the Angle of Attack. You can also
calibrate the PSS instrument for flaps, not so with the LRI.
The LRI probe, on RVs, is usually placed where the inspection plate is
on the underside of the wing. Is this because of any necessary
mathematical requirement? No, it's just convenient. The transformation
of the LRI probe's differential data to AOA requires a mathematical
assumption or "leap of faith", if you will. Physicists do this when
dealing with quantum mechanics but mathematicians generally do not, for
good reason. One poster said the LRI is "proven" to work with/without
flaps. I can find no documentation for this claim. If any such data
does exist, please forward it to me and I will publish a retraction.
Some have mentioned CG location as a factor in stalling. This may
happen in certain situations where the CG was so far out of whack that
the nose could not be lowered enough to reduce the AOA. It does not
change the AOA, tho. CG location will affect longitudinal stability but
not AOA, provided the airfoil has not changed.
One poster seemed to imply that he adjusts his flight airspeeds by the
density attitude to avoid stalling. The equation for lift compensates
for "rho", air density, with a velocity equation (1/2 rho V squared).
Thus, the wing flies in "indicated airspeed" to generate lift, altho TAS
is used for navigation and for plotting landing/take off distances, Vx,
Vy, Vs, Vso are still flown at the proper indicated airspeed.
For "Dinosaur" (?Allosaur) Bob J.--look at some pictures of the Wright
Flyer (several different models were made with that name) and some
pictures will show a 2 foot long "stick" in front of the wing leading
edge with a piece of yarn/string attached to the front of the stick, out
of the disturbed airstream, as a very nice AOA indicator and costs less
than $20. Once you know the lifting properties of your wing this will
reliably predict an approaching stall and several other flight speeds,
albeit not with the greatest of accuracy (unless you mounted a large
protractor just parallel to it). I would probably question its
durability, however.
In summary, AOA information is just another tool in your flying toolbox.
If you are going to depend on one, make sure it actually measures AOA.
It's not just a stall warning device.
Lovingly,
Boyd.
Bill Geipel wrote:
>
>
> Come to minnesota we will take you for a ride. Think about this though. PSS
> anf LRI both use differential pressure. They both measure the same thing.
> They both are on one wing, they both need to be in unobstructed airflow. How
> do you like your display? Thats your choice.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)ticnet.com> |
On Wednesday 25 July, I cleared Canadian Customs at Whitehorse, capitol
of Yukon Territory. On the same day RVator Bob Bristol cleared U. S.
Customs at Sault Ste Marie, Michigan. The experiences were quite
different.
I had called Canadian Customs from Northway, Alaska, and provided the
usual information re alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. This was my third
Canada entry in two years and they had my info on their data base. It
rained almost all the way from Northway to Whitehorse so we just
followed the Alaska Highway. We landed at 1030PM in light rain with
good daylight but the runway lights were nonetheless a welcome sight.
Upon landing, the tower directed us to the customs area and told us to
use the telephone if no customs person met us. I used the phone and was
given an authorization number...and that was that...very courteous and
efficient...and free.
Bob landed in Michigan enroute to OSH within two minutes of his ETA. He
had the U. S. Customs decal on his plane...this decal costs $25 upon
first entry each calendar year. His plane was emptied and his luggage
searched. His documents including license and medical were examined.
Subsequently, I reentered the USA on Friday 22 July at Spokane
International. I had intended to enter at Spokane Felts Field (general
aviation, low fuel price) but had been advised by U. S. Customs that I
would have a two hour wait for customs service if I landed at Felts even
though it is an airport of entry. With this threat I landed at Spokane
International...and cleared the customs lady in about 30
minutes...already having my $25 decal saved about five minutes. I paid
$3.015 for fuel...the highest price encountered in Canada and Alaska!
Makes me wonder if customs gets a cut!
My conclusion is that Canadian Customs are user friendly and U. S.
Customs are definitely NOT. Is U. S. Customs really intercepting drugs
and saving our country from all evil? Is their negative reputation
unjust? My first U. S. reentry in year 2000 was at Cleveland, Ohio,
where I waited 45 minutes to give my $25 for the right to come home.
Visit Canada...the people are great...as are the customs people! But be
sure you have $25 in order to come home!
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas
RV-6A...54.4 hours to Arctic Circle and home
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
Subject: | Re: Baffeling Question |
Hello George,
The 3/8" measurement is what the plan calls out for the gap between The
inlet and the forward baffle floor.
The gap seal is to be attached to bottom of the fiberglass inlet opening so
as to project back and over the top of the inlet floor. This way the engine
can shake around as it will and the air pressure will be pushing the seal
down against the inlet floor.
Of course the seal should also curve up the sides so as to interface with
the rest of the sealing system
Jim in Kelowna - Fitting air box
----- Original Message -----
From: "George McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:08 PM
Subject: RV-List: Baffeling Question
>
>
> Engine Cooling Baffles
>
> I am making the engine cooling baffles for my 6-A (0-320) from paper
> patterns that I purchased from Vans, however there were no instructions
> supplied with the drawings so I have the following question.
>
> At the cowling air inlets,- how close should the baffle inlet floor be to
> the underside of the cowling air inlet, or should the floor be cut off
just
> short of the fiberglass with a seal projecting forward underneath the
> fiberglass?
>
> A nice tight fit with the aluminum under the fiberglass looks best but
does
> not allow for the engine to rock on the engine mounts.
>
> Thanks,
>
> George McNutt
> Baffeling in Langley, B.C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: An old soldier... (Not RV related) |
--- Ken Balch wrote:
>
> My father-in-law, a man I loved and greatly respected, died last
> night.
I lift my wine glass to your father-in-law, his comrades and his
generation.
My condolences to your family and his.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
====
Michael E. Thompson (Grobdriver(at)yahoo.com)
Austin, TX, USA
RV-6 in progress, N140RV (Reserved)
EX-AX1 Sub Hunter, P-3 (B/B-TACMOD/C) Orion Aircrew,
PP-G,ASEL, Motorglider Driver and Unlimited Air Race Nut!
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: OFF-List: Cheap Videos |
No flame. Too easy. Thanks for playing.
Bill
>
> Bill,
>
> Aren't you the guy that doesn't believe in contributing money to Matt for
> the RV list? My humblest apologies if I am remembering wrong, but it all
> seems to fit.
>
> I will eagerly await your always creative and humorous flame.
>
> Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Two Experiences |
<-- Lots of good stuff removed -->
>My conclusion is that Canadian Customs are user friendly and U. S.
>Customs are definitely NOT. Is U. S. Customs really intercepting drugs
>and saving our country from all evil? Is their negative reputation
>unjust? My first U. S. reentry in year 2000 was at Cleveland, Ohio,
>where I waited 45 minutes to give my $25 for the right to come home.
>
>Visit Canada...the people are great...as are the customs people! But be
>sure you have $25 in order to come home!
>
>Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas
I have to admit my experiences with clearing US Customs in a light
aircraft have not been great either. But, on the way to OSH this
year we ended up clearing US Customs at Drummond Island, MI (Y66), a
rinky dink little airport in the middle of no where. It is so far
from civilization that there is no US Customs guy - they use two
contract Customs guys to handle all the boat and aircraft traffic. I
met both of them while I was there, and they were both very friendly
and helpful. One guy has a reputation of being a lot quicker to show
up than the other one though. And of course I had booked with the
slow guy. But we only had to wait about 15 minutes for him to
arrive, and he had the paperwork filled out in about 5 minutes,
including buying the dreaded $25 sticker, so I can't really complain
too much.
So, how do we find out which fields get serviced by contract Customs officers?
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
Like the idiot I am, I never bothered to blow out the tank after 6 months of
use. Then when I did, the rust that came out was unreal. I have a 20 gal
cambell-hausfield.
I highly recommend one blow it out often. Bob in Ark doin wings (6).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
Subject: | Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
The electronic display unit has audible. When flaps are extended the AOA
that the wing stalls at is definitely different. The LRI will show about a 2
needle width difference between stall with and without flaps. In order to
keep it cheap and bullet proof, the mechanical gauge has no electricity
requirement. The electronic version has no compensation for flaps either.
But the indication at stall is minor. When the unit is calibrated, you are
in a clean configuration. So when flaps are lowered there is an automatic
buffer built in. Hope this helps.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Nellis
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
Does the LRI compensate for the deployment of flaps? Does the LRI have an
audible alert?
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
> Come to minnesota we will take you for a ride. Think about this though.
PSS
> anf LRI both use differential pressure. They both measure the same thing.
> They both are on one wing, they both need to be in unobstructed airflow.
How
> do you like your display? Thats your choice.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Lewis
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 8:53 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
>
>
> It appears to be time for the annual LRI discussion. We hit this topic
> in Nov 98, Oct 99, Mar 00, and now Aug 01. It's an interesting topic.
>
> I've found having an audible stall warning system to be invaluable.
> On a couple of occasions I've allowed my attention to wander from
> airspeed, got slow while down low (circling at the direction of the
> tower, while looking for traffic), and had the stall warning activate. I
> think it can be a life saver in "low and slow" situations.
>
> The Piper style stall tab warns of stall based on air flow change that
> occurs before the wing stalls. True AoA systems (Rite Angle, PSS,
> others), if equipped with an audible device, can sound warning of a
> stall based on the fact that a given wing stalls at the same AoA,
> regardless of airspeed. These are well understood principles.
>
> The situation isn't so clear with the LRI. Way back on 28 Nov 98 Peter
> Bennett posted a well thought out mathematical analysis (available in
> the archives, search for "pbennett & LRI") that questions whether the
> LRI gives the same stall warning in all weight and G loading
> conditions. Peter's analysis is straight forward, and convinced me that
> the LRI web site's claims of "Reliable under all conditions of weight...
> flap position... angle of bank" are suspect. To the best of my
> knowledge, nobody has published rigorous flight test data to support
> the LRI claims. One acquaintance of mine "rolled his own" LRI type
> device (based on the drawings and info in the LRI patent) and
> reported that at high G loads the unit gave an inappropriately high
> indication of "lift reserve" when the aircraft stalled. That data (not
> from a commercially produced LRI unit) seems to support Peter's 1998
> analysis. I'd sure like to see some actual flight test data showing LRI
> indication vs stall speed across a broad range of aircraft weights and
> G loading.
>
> By the way, builders can make and install a Piper-style audible stall
> warning system for the cost of a switch, some aluminum, and a couple
> of small screws and bolts. Pictures and measurements are at my web
> site, http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a/stall.htm.
>
> Tim Lewis
> Just returned from OSH, with 260 hours on RV-6A N47TD
>
> ******
> Tim Lewis -- Fairfax, VA
> RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
> http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
> ******
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
Subject: | Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
Try John Fashing in Salida, Co. RV6A I think. We sold about 22 to RV guys at
OSH. Soon we should have reports.
Stay tuned.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 6:01 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
Brian Lloyd reported on the flight testing he did on his PSS
installation back in January 1999. Go to the archives and search on
"AoA indicator report" (don't type the quote marks). Summary - once
he had it calibrated he found it was accurate flaps up and flaps
down, and at up to 4g (he didn't test at higher load factors). He
installed the system in a CJ-6, not his RV, but I suspect the basic
conclusions would be valid on RVs, if the system was properly
calibrated, and there were no leaks in the plumbing.
I'm not aware of any listers who reported detailed test results for
the LRI, but I could have missed it.
Some RV-8 builders report good stall warning buffet, so I'm not
installing an AOA system in my plane yet. But, if I'm not happy
with the natural stall warning after I get flying, I'll install one
of the systems. If I decide to install an AOA system, I hope to bum
a flight in an aircraft with each of the competing systems so I can
judge for myself which one I like the best. I want good aural or
tactile stall warning, far enough in advance of the stall so I can
take a second to go "WTF?" and recover before actually stalling. I
want the system to be accurate flaps up, down, and when pulling g.
Some listers have expressed concerns about the possible effect of CG
on the accuracy of AOA systems. The wing will stall at the same AOA
regardless of the CG. So, any system that uses airflow or pressure
around the wing to activate it should not be affected by CG.
There has also been a discussion about the effect of ice. Once you
have ice on the aircraft you can't trust the AOA systems to tell the
truth, but you can't rely on the airspeed indicator as a measure of
how far you are from stall either. Based on my experiences doing
flight testing with Styrofoam simulated ice shapes on wings and tails
(up to 1.5 inches of ice on the wing, and 3 inches on the tail), and
also with 40 grit sandpaper on the leading edges, a small amount of
ice can be even worse than a large amount of ice on some aircraft.
But, in either case you should be OK if you add 20 mph to your normal
approach speed. I would avoid the use of full flap, as some aircraft
have a tailplane stall problem with full flap if there is ice on the
HS leading edge. So, half flap would be a better bet. If in doubt,
try a slow reduction to your planned approach speed at altitude, so
see how the plane handles it (just like you did on your first flight).
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
>
>Folks:
>
>I have not particularly enjoyed this thread, but one thing is true, a stall
>warning device of some type needs to be on the plane. I will do my own
>research about what type is best, but I would encourage a full range of
test
>numbers be published that takes into account various configurations, flight
>attitudes, altitudes, etc. If such has been done, then I'd appreciate
where
>I can read about it and study it.
>
>The free market is obviously alive and well on the site, but given that we
>are talking safety here, let's examine the performance numbers as openly as
>we debate shipping charges and OSH specials.
>
>John
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: RobHickman(at)aol.com [mailto:RobHickman(at)aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 4:51 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
>
>
>After losing another friend in an RV accident I decided that an AOA was a
>good idea. Jerry VanGrunsven has the PSS AOA in his RV-6A and he is so
>happy with it that he is also installing one in his new 8A. Jerry has been
>flying RV's a long time and if he thinks he needs one what makes me think
>that I don't? I have always been very careful with my flying but I
>recognize
>that so have a lot of other people that are not here anymore and I only
have
>
>250 hours TT. There is a reason that most production airplanes have stall
>warning devices and it is not just because they wanted to increase the
>price.
>
>
>I should have the PSS AOA Professional installed this weekend and I will
let
>
>you all know what I think of it.
>
>Fly safe - other peoples actions do effect us all, wether it be in
increased
>
>insurance rates or family, friends, and public opinions of our flying.
>
>Rob Hickman
>RV-4 IO-360 CS & soon to be AOA equipped
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
Subject: | Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
Here, here.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 5:12 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
Folks:
I have not particularly enjoyed this thread, but one thing is true, a stall
warning device of some type needs to be on the plane. I will do my own
research about what type is best, but I would encourage a full range of test
numbers be published that takes into account various configurations, flight
attitudes, altitudes, etc. If such has been done, then I'd appreciate where
I can read about it and study it.
The free market is obviously alive and well on the site, but given that we
are talking safety here, let's examine the performance numbers as openly as
we debate shipping charges and OSH specials.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com [mailto:RobHickman(at)aol.com]
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
After losing another friend in an RV accident I decided that an AOA was a
good idea. Jerry VanGrunsven has the PSS AOA in his RV-6A and he is so
happy with it that he is also installing one in his new 8A. Jerry has been
flying RV's a long time and if he thinks he needs one what makes me think
that I don't? I have always been very careful with my flying but I
recognize
that so have a lot of other people that are not here anymore and I only have
250 hours TT. There is a reason that most production airplanes have stall
warning devices and it is not just because they wanted to increase the
price.
I should have the PSS AOA Professional installed this weekend and I will let
you all know what I think of it.
Fly safe - other peoples actions do effect us all, wether it be in increased
insurance rates or family, friends, and public opinions of our flying.
Rob Hickman
RV-4 IO-360 CS & soon to be AOA equipped
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
Subject: | Stall/Spin (humour - press delete) |
Just as a break to the serious (but interesting) AoA discussions,
I used to work as an avionics tech on PBY's, Canso's (Canadian version of
Catalina's) and the pilots always had funny stories to tell. The Canso's
were very slow for its large size and only cruised around 110 (at 60 gph!)
so the pilots joked about it.
The Chief test pilot told me one day: "I was flying along at 3000 ft around
100 kts - appropriate speed & altitude for a PBY." "Then, I noticed this
seagull flying right outside my window..." "It didn't bother mew at first
but after a while I was upset that the seagull could go as fast as me... so
I added power - 110 kts but the seagull was still there! Damn!!! More
power - 115 kts, but the seagull wouldn't back off - this time take-off
power. "The damn seagull is still there and the throttles are firewalled!".
"Ahhh - here's an idea - I slowed down a bit at a time as I was watching the
seagull. He was still at my side so I slowed down some more..." Finally, it
happened!!! The seagull stalled and spun inn..."
Are
RV-8 Wings (fuse on order)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
Subject: | Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
You all could learn something from this man.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
RobHickman(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
After losing another friend in an RV accident I decided that an AOA was a
good idea. Jerry VanGrunsven has the PSS AOA in his RV-6A and he is so
happy with it that he is also installing one in his new 8A. Jerry has been
flying RV's a long time and if he thinks he needs one what makes me think
that I don't? I have always been very careful with my flying but I
recognize
that so have a lot of other people that are not here anymore and I only have
250 hours TT. There is a reason that most production airplanes have stall
warning devices and it is not just because they wanted to increase the
price.
I should have the PSS AOA Professional installed this weekend and I will let
you all know what I think of it.
Fly safe - other peoples actions do effect us all, wether it be in increased
insurance rates or family, friends, and public opinions of our flying.
Rob Hickman
RV-4 IO-360 CS & soon to be AOA equipped
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Oil cooler size |
.
>
>I installed the largest Positech and have cooling problems. This cooler is
>known to not be as efficient as the SW. Brian Denk did some good work on
>this.
>
>However, At OSH, I visited with the Positech folks about my cooling
>problems
>and they said that they had heard about the problems on the RV's and had
>re-designed their coolers to increase the airflow by 50%. They also
>offered
>to replace my cooler with the new design at no charge.
Great news, Wes! Thanks for the effort on your behalf to speak with
Positech directly at OSH. I certainly would like to have my Posi replaced
with a new one. I won't install it...why bother...the Niagara is working
fine. However, I could certainly offer it to one of the local builders.
Or, save it for use on my next RV...the four seater. ;)
Please do keep us informed if/when you receive a new cooler. If you need any
support in your dealings with them, please send them my way.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
240 hrs.
Niagara + cool collar= oil temp in the green.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Stall/Spin (humour - press delete) |
Great timing, Are...classic!
Paul
--- Are Barstad wrote:
>
>
> Just as a break to the serious (but interesting) AoA
> discussions,
>
> I used to work as an avionics tech on PBY's, Canso's
> (Canadian version of
> Catalina's) and the pilots always had funny stories
> to tell. The Canso's
> were very slow for its large size and only cruised
> around 110 (at 60 gph!)
> so the pilots joked about it.
>
> The Chief test pilot told me one day: "I was flying
> along at 3000 ft around
> 100 kts - appropriate speed & altitude for a PBY."
> "Then, I noticed this
> seagull flying right outside my window..." "It
> didn't bother mew at first
> but after a while I was upset that the seagull could
> go as fast as me... so
> I added power - 110 kts but the seagull was still
> there! Damn!!! More
> power - 115 kts, but the seagull wouldn't back off -
> this time take-off
> power. "The damn seagull is still there and the
> throttles are firewalled!".
> "Ahhh - here's an idea - I slowed down a bit at a
> time as I was watching the
> seagull. He was still at my side so I slowed down
> some more..." Finally, it
> happened!!! The seagull stalled and spun inn..."
>
> Are
> RV-8 Wings (fuse on order)
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Thomas Mosher" <tmosher(at)gbronline.com> |
Subject: | Re: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
With all this talk about AOA systems and such, is it possible just to use a
standard stall vane (i.e., Cessna type which you can flip with your finger)
on an RV?
I guess I'm one of the "old-type" pilots who only needs a decent instrument
panel (airspeed, altimeter, VSI, T&B, and artificial horizon) rather than
someone who needs the fancy stuff (i.e., moving map, AOA, etc).
Tom
N787RV (reserved)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
>
> > The PSS kit can be installed as a retrofit easily since I already
prepared
> for plumbing it. After much consideration I have decided to finish my
RV-8,
> fly it and do some testing. If my RV-8's tail shakes before stall like
Randy
> Lervold, Brian Denk and Terry Burch described earlier in the 'tail shake'
> thread, then I probably won't need anything. IF there is no shake and
IF...
> the people here that are installing the PSS or LRI system in their RV's
find
> that it really is a cat's behind, then I might buy it.
>
>
> Are (and others),
> Let me clarify one thing... the pre-stall tail shake only occurs, in my
> plane at least, in 1G stalls. I will go out and do some accelerated stalls
> this weekend to verify what I think I remember here.
>
> BTW, my informal survey of RV-8s that are flying reveals that 50-60% of
them
> exhibit the tail shake and 40-50% of them don't. I got into a very
> interesting discussion standing around the RV area at Arlington with four
> RV-8 flyers all at once. One of them said he had none at all, two of them
> (including me) said that they had noticeable tail shake, and one described
> his as "violent". The only other RV-8 that I've personally been up in was
in
> Florida and it was exactly like mine. Van's is working on this in their
own
> quiet way. I'm sure we'll know more about what is causing it, and whether
it
> needs to be addressed or not, within a few months.
>
> FWIW,
> Randy Lervold
> RV-8, N558RL, 89.1 hrs
> www.rv-8.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
>Why depressurize? Well, I suspect your tank is made of steel. Add
>moisture and oxygen and you get rust. At 130 psi above ambient
>pressure you've got about 145 psi absolute pressure in the tank, or
>about 10 times normal atmospheric pressure. So there is 10 times as
>much oxygen, and it will rust 10 times as fast. If you view the
>compressor tank as a throw away item, to be replaced once it rusts
>through, then don't worry about depressurizing it. If you want it to
>last as long as possible, then you should depressurize it after use.
>The choice is yours. Either way it'll likely last to the end of your
>project, unless you are a very slow builder.
--
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
>Ottawa, Canada
Don't mean to be argumentative but there is a flaw in this reasoning
somewhere.
My compressor tank bears a certification label dated 1939. (making it
now 62 years old) My system runs at 175 PSI has 9 quick connects
attached and has remained under this pressure constantly for the 22
years that I have owned it. I do not ever turn off the compressor or
drain the air from the system. The compressor never starts unless I
consume air.(no leaks)
The previous owner of this compressor (a BMW dealership) also left it on
and pressurized continuously for at least 15 years that I know of. This
tank recently passed its periodic hydrostatic test. ( thereforre it
hasn't rusted out) My point being that depressurizing your tank is going
to have no discernable effect on its life , that a properly designed and
installed system should not leak, and you do not need to go to the
trouble of releasing the pressure or the expense of pumping it back up.
(compressed air is one of the most expensive sources of energy and
therefore should not be wasted unnecessarily).
Bob McC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
Bill--may I call you Bill?
That's pure marketing whitewash. What you're saying is that you don't
know what the "reserve lift" is when the flaps are down. There are so
many different airfoils and flap types and degrees of setting, how can
you assign an arbitrary "2 needle width" difference between all these
conditions, which can vary from 3-4 mph to 10-11 mph. It's smoke and
mirrors--admit it--you have have no documentation about calibrating
"lift reserve"--whatever that is--how about giving us an aerodynamic
definition?--to an airfoil with and without flaps.
You may have the seeds of a good idea but you haven't tested and
developed it to the degree that you're advertising, and, it appears that
you want US to do that for YOU.
Why not hand out a few freebies, matched by PSS, and have them installed
on opposite wings of the same aircraft? Let's see who can get accurate
and consistent data on flying a series of known AOA airspeeds: stall,
max L/D(best power off glide), rate and angle of climb, best endurance
(see L/D), etc.
And, again, just what exactly is "lift reserve"? If you tell me it's
how close you are to a stall, I can get that from the Wright Brothers'
string-on-a-stick. How about the other AOA speeds?
Boyd.
Bill Geipel wrote:
>
>
> The electronic display unit has audible. When flaps are extended the AOA
> that the wing stalls at is definitely different. The LRI will show about a 2
> needle width difference between stall with and without flaps. In order to
> keep it cheap and bullet proof, the mechanical gauge has no electricity
> requirement. The electronic version has no compensation for flaps either.
> But the indication at stall is minor. When the unit is calibrated, you are
> in a clean configuration. So when flaps are lowered there is an automatic
> buffer built in. Hope this helps.
>
> Bill
> c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Slanted Oil Cooler Mounting |
I have a Niagra 20014 which is a 7-row cooler. Also have Van's baffle kit.
I want to mount the cooler on the left rear of the baffle and was hoping to
just mount it flat against the baffle. The oil cooler mounting flange is
about 1/2" too wide and interfers with the engine mount. In the baffle
plans it recommends bending the baffle mounting flanges 25 degrees forward
which will swing the oil cooler out farther from the engine mount. I did
this and it worked great. The downside is that a wedge shape filler piece
must be fabricated to fill the space created between the cooler and the
baffle.
I know other builders have done this and I have searched with no luck for
pictures to get some ideas. Anyone recall the whereabouts of pictures or
have any ideas?
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
RV6..baffled by the cooler
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
Not to mention the heat generated by running a compressor long enough to
fill a large tank. Heat means condensation..INSIDE the tank. Or am I
wrong?
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert McCallum" <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: My new air compressor
>
> >Why depressurize? Well, I suspect your tank is made of steel. Add
> >moisture and oxygen and you get rust. At 130 psi above ambient
> >pressure you've got about 145 psi absolute pressure in the tank, or
> >about 10 times normal atmospheric pressure. So there is 10 times as
> >much oxygen, and it will rust 10 times as fast. If you view the
> >compressor tank as a throw away item, to be replaced once it rusts
> >through, then don't worry about depressurizing it. If you want it to
> >last as long as possible, then you should depressurize it after use.
> >The choice is yours. Either way it'll likely last to the end of your
> >project, unless you are a very slow builder.
>
> --
> >Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
> >Ottawa, Canada
>
> Don't mean to be argumentative but there is a flaw in this reasoning
> somewhere.
> My compressor tank bears a certification label dated 1939. (making it
> now 62 years old) My system runs at 175 PSI has 9 quick connects
> attached and has remained under this pressure constantly for the 22
> years that I have owned it. I do not ever turn off the compressor or
> drain the air from the system. The compressor never starts unless I
> consume air.(no leaks)
> The previous owner of this compressor (a BMW dealership) also left it on
> and pressurized continuously for at least 15 years that I know of. This
> tank recently passed its periodic hydrostatic test. ( thereforre it
> hasn't rusted out) My point being that depressurizing your tank is going
> to have no discernable effect on its life , that a properly designed and
> installed system should not leak, and you do not need to go to the
> trouble of releasing the pressure or the expense of pumping it back up.
> (compressed air is one of the most expensive sources of energy and
> therefore should not be wasted unnecessarily).
>
> Bob McC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
There we go. Finally, someone asking for some definite answers...and a
comparison no less. Unfortunately, I'm too ignorant to even pose a proper
question on the AOA differences....but I knew....I just KNEW someone on this
list was going to step up and hold some manufacturers feet to the flames.
Now, lets just see who puts up.
Thanks Boyd...I suspected it might be you. :-)
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
>
> Bill--may I call you Bill?
>
> That's pure marketing whitewash. What you're saying is that you don't
> know what the "reserve lift" is when the flaps are down. There are so
> many different airfoils and flap types and degrees of setting, how can
> you assign an arbitrary "2 needle width" difference between all these
> conditions, which can vary from 3-4 mph to 10-11 mph. It's smoke and
> mirrors--admit it--you have have no documentation about calibrating
> "lift reserve"--whatever that is--how about giving us an aerodynamic
> definition?--to an airfoil with and without flaps.
>
> You may have the seeds of a good idea but you haven't tested and
> developed it to the degree that you're advertising, and, it appears that
> you want US to do that for YOU.
>
> Why not hand out a few freebies, matched by PSS, and have them installed
> on opposite wings of the same aircraft? Let's see who can get accurate
> and consistent data on flying a series of known AOA airspeeds: stall,
> max L/D(best power off glide), rate and angle of climb, best endurance
> (see L/D), etc.
>
> And, again, just what exactly is "lift reserve"? If you tell me it's
> how close you are to a stall, I can get that from the Wright Brothers'
> string-on-a-stick. How about the other AOA speeds?
>
> Boyd.
>
> Bill Geipel wrote:
> >
> >
> > The electronic display unit has audible. When flaps are extended the AOA
> > that the wing stalls at is definitely different. The LRI will show about
a 2
> > needle width difference between stall with and without flaps. In order
to
> > keep it cheap and bullet proof, the mechanical gauge has no electricity
> > requirement. The electronic version has no compensation for flaps
either.
> > But the indication at stall is minor. When the unit is calibrated, you
are
> > in a clean configuration. So when flaps are lowered there is an
automatic
> > buffer built in. Hope this helps.
> >
> > Bill
> > c
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Craig Chipley" <craigchipley(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
Why Don't those guys give some free ones for the EAA/CAFE guys to play with?
>From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
>Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 23:25:47 -0400
>
>
>Bill--may I call you Bill?
>
>That's pure marketing whitewash. What you're saying is that you don't
>know what the "reserve lift" is when the flaps are down. There are so
>many different airfoils and flap types and degrees of setting, how can
>you assign an arbitrary "2 needle width" difference between all these
>conditions, which can vary from 3-4 mph to 10-11 mph. It's smoke and
>mirrors--admit it--you have have no documentation about calibrating
>"lift reserve"--whatever that is--how about giving us an aerodynamic
>definition?--to an airfoil with and without flaps.
>
>You may have the seeds of a good idea but you haven't tested and
>developed it to the degree that you're advertising, and, it appears that
>you want US to do that for YOU.
>
>Why not hand out a few freebies, matched by PSS, and have them installed
>on opposite wings of the same aircraft? Let's see who can get accurate
>and consistent data on flying a series of known AOA airspeeds: stall,
>max L/D(best power off glide), rate and angle of climb, best endurance
>(see L/D), etc.
>
>And, again, just what exactly is "lift reserve"? If you tell me it's
>how close you are to a stall, I can get that from the Wright Brothers'
>string-on-a-stick. How about the other AOA speeds?
>
>Boyd.
>
>Bill Geipel wrote:
> >
> >
> > The electronic display unit has audible. When flaps are extended the AOA
> > that the wing stalls at is definitely different. The LRI will show about
>a 2
> > needle width difference between stall with and without flaps. In order
>to
> > keep it cheap and bullet proof, the mechanical gauge has no electricity
> > requirement. The electronic version has no compensation for flaps
>either.
> > But the indication at stall is minor. When the unit is calibrated, you
>are
> > in a clean configuration. So when flaps are lowered there is an
>automatic
> > buffer built in. Hope this helps.
> >
> > Bill
> > c
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Thomas Mosher" <tmosher(at)gbronline.com> |
Subject: | Re: Avionics Packages |
I'm not sure but it looks like you're paying about $500 for the wiring
package for the first stack listed.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 11:35 PM
Subject: RV-List: Avionics Packages
>
> If you're getting close to avionics, here is a cool webpage from a
> company that offers ten radio stack packages.
>
> http://www.avionix.com/valuestacks.html
>
> The prices seem competitive as they all come pre-wired. That saves lots
> of work that costs a bunch too.
>
> You have to let it load for awhile as it is a long page. I like the one
> second from the bottom. Doubt I will be able to afford it though.....
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Thomas Mosher" <tmosher(at)gbronline.com> |
Anyone notice that RV's took one and two in the awards for homebuilt-kit
aircraft?
Tom
N787RV (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Does anyone know if Skybolt is still around? |
>
>I was interested in their fasteners for the cowl. I tried their webpage
>www.skybolt.com without success.
>
>Don Mack
>RV-6A Finishing
>don(at)dmack.net
>www.dmack.net
I tried Google, and it came up with:
http://www.airsport.com/skybolt.htm
as well as the page you tried (which wasn't working for me either).
But, I have no idea if they are still in business.
Take care,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
Hey, distinguished friends: I have acquired (thru eBay) an old Jaeger
B-2 "Angle of Attack" which reads 0 to 30 degrees nose up or down, and
has no connections to anything, the only thing on the back is a locking
screw. I,m told they were used in WWII and were considered useful for
gliders. Any body know what use this is for? Thanks, Bob Adams, -6A
finishing stage. Maybe you could use this to determine the slope of
the runway?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jody Villa" <jodyvilla(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: videos still available? |
Eddy, I emailed you yesterday regarding the video's. I need an address
and method of paying for shipping if your still interested. If you
aren't let me know so that I may give them to the next person in line.
Thanks
**************************************************
Jody Villa Tewksbury, NJ USA
*************************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: EddyFernan(at)aol.com
To: Jodyvilla(at)worldnet.att.net
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:58 AM
Subject: videos still available?
Please email or call my office toll free 877-792-8188 & let me know
what you
need from me.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ENewton57(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Does anyone know if Skybolt is still around? |
In a message dated 8/3/01 11:39:33 PM Central Daylight Time,
khorton(at)cyberus.ca writes:
>
>I was interested in their fasteners for the cowl. I tried their webpage
>www.skybolt.com without success.
>
>Don Mack
>RV-6A Finishing
>don(at)dmack.net
>www.dmack.net >>
FWIW
I just went to http://www.skybolt.com/ and it works fine. I bought the
camlocks for my cowling from them. They are really customer friendly but the
camlocks are sure pricey (about $10 per hole for everything)
Eric Newton - Long Beach, Mississippi
RV-6A N57ME (Reserved) (mounting and rigging wings)
http://www.ericsrv6a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Bell" <dbell(at)manisteenational.com> |
Subject: | Re: Two Experiences |
Kevin,
I'll have you know that that the rinky dink little airport in the middle of
no where is in the prime of the golf in Michigan.....did you have your
clubs? it could have been a great stayover! "The Rock" (golf cours name)
on Drummond Island, built by Pizza magnet and former Detroit Tiger owner Tom
Monohan is quite a course....next time you havta play it.
Actually, the prime of golf is a little further south and on the west coast,
look for the RV golf event next year here in Manistee, MI
Doug Bell, PGA
rv8 qb
Too much golf, not enough work on plane
"But mine will fly before Terri Jantzi new rocket" (Oshkosh bet between a
current Canadian and an ex canadian)
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Two Experiences
>
>
> <-- Lots of good stuff removed -->
>
> >My conclusion is that Canadian Customs are user friendly and U. S.
> >Customs are definitely NOT. Is U. S. Customs really intercepting drugs
> >and saving our country from all evil? Is their negative reputation
> >unjust? My first U. S. reentry in year 2000 was at Cleveland, Ohio,
> >where I waited 45 minutes to give my $25 for the right to come home.
> >
> >Visit Canada...the people are great...as are the customs people! But be
> >sure you have $25 in order to come home!
> >
> >Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas
>
> I have to admit my experiences with clearing US Customs in a light
> aircraft have not been great either. But, on the way to OSH this
> year we ended up clearing US Customs at Drummond Island, MI (Y66), a
> rinky dink little airport in the middle of no where. It is so far
> from civilization that there is no US Customs guy - they use two
> contract Customs guys to handle all the boat and aircraft traffic. I
> met both of them while I was there, and they were both very friendly
> and helpful. One guy has a reputation of being a lot quicker to show
> up than the other one though. And of course I had booked with the
> slow guy. But we only had to wait about 15 minutes for him to
> arrive, and he had the paperwork filled out in about 5 minutes,
> including buying the dreaded $25 sticker, so I can't really complain
> too much.
>
> So, how do we find out which fields get serviced by contract Customs
officers?
>
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
Subject: | Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
Bill is my name.
Lets try this, like I said to someone, our unit makes no compensation for
flaps. Therefor when it is calibrated in the clean configuration there is an
extra margine of stall protection that ocurs when the flaps are lowered.
With a non electric unit, absolutely no power required, you can't make
compensation for flaps. 65 reports we got from users said "between 1 and 2
needle widths difference. That is the only proof we have. The customers tell
us. I try not to believe everybody but I certainly know how it works in my
airplane and their report goes with mine.
NASA mounted on the B-737 they flew for years. They said it did what it was
supposed to do as we explained it. They actually used it. In fact an
exciting visitor stopped by the booth this year at OSH, the pilot that flew
it that boeing and at Cessna. Cessna tried it on a C-150. This same guy did
the testing on it. Bruce Bohanan says it worked on the Exxon Tiger. I can
only take their word for it. I admit I am not an enginneer. I do know
however, what makes an airplane fly. (Money! (thats a joke))
Lift reserve, is just that amount of lift available as indicated on the
gauge. Is that 10 units? 100 units? 45 knots? I don't know. What I know is
that at an exact needle position, my wing departs. I know that at an exact
needle position, I am at Vx. I do know that at an exact needle position, I
am mushing and unable to hold altitude with the power available. It has been
referred to as Margine above stall. This is what our product does. It will
not tell you that you AOA is 6.5 units. It will not tell you that the
critical AOA is 15 units. The aircraft manufacturers didn't bother to tell
us what critical AOA was, they just install a stall speed warning device
that blows at 2? 5? 10? knots above stall. (Margine above stall) If you want
to see numbers, buy PSS. We are just giving you an accurste look at a simple
needle. Accurste at any weight, any airspeed and any "G" loading. The wing
stalls at the same AOA wstraight ahead or in a 60 degree bank (2g). We have
it mounted on a military jet. We have done airwork upto 6g. It is still
accurate.
What I say is correct. It is conservative when you lower flaps. Correct?
You wouldn't happen to have any suggestions as to who might receive one of
thopse free-bees would you? Boeing tested it, Cessna tested it, Bruce
Bohannan tested it, B.F. Goodrich tested it. If you will read it, and more
accurately if I can find it, I will send you 6" of test reports. But would
you take their word for it?
Orville and Wilbur had the right Idea. The string of yarn worked great.
I hope this helps explain our position. If not, my apologies.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Shook
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
There we go. Finally, someone asking for some definite answers...and a
comparison no less. Unfortunately, I'm too ignorant to even pose a proper
question on the AOA differences....but I knew....I just KNEW someone on this
list was going to step up and hold some manufacturers feet to the flames.
Now, lets just see who puts up.
Thanks Boyd...I suspected it might be you. :-)
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
>
> Bill--may I call you Bill?
>
> That's pure marketing whitewash. What you're saying is that you don't
> know what the "reserve lift" is when the flaps are down. There are so
> many different airfoils and flap types and degrees of setting, how can
> you assign an arbitrary "2 needle width" difference between all these
> conditions, which can vary from 3-4 mph to 10-11 mph. It's smoke and
> mirrors--admit it--you have have no documentation about calibrating
> "lift reserve"--whatever that is--how about giving us an aerodynamic
> definition?--to an airfoil with and without flaps.
>
> You may have the seeds of a good idea but you haven't tested and
> developed it to the degree that you're advertising, and, it appears that
> you want US to do that for YOU.
>
> Why not hand out a few freebies, matched by PSS, and have them installed
> on opposite wings of the same aircraft? Let's see who can get accurate
> and consistent data on flying a series of known AOA airspeeds: stall,
> max L/D(best power off glide), rate and angle of climb, best endurance
> (see L/D), etc.
>
> And, again, just what exactly is "lift reserve"? If you tell me it's
> how close you are to a stall, I can get that from the Wright Brothers'
> string-on-a-stick. How about the other AOA speeds?
>
> Boyd.
>
> Bill Geipel wrote:
> >
> >
> > The electronic display unit has audible. When flaps are extended the AOA
> > that the wing stalls at is definitely different. The LRI will show about
a 2
> > needle width difference between stall with and without flaps. In order
to
> > keep it cheap and bullet proof, the mechanical gauge has no electricity
> > requirement. The electronic version has no compensation for flaps
either.
> > But the indication at stall is minor. When the unit is calibrated, you
are
> > in a clean configuration. So when flaps are lowered there is an
automatic
> > buffer built in. Hope this helps.
> >
> > Bill
> > c
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
Subject: | Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
EAA and the FAA have a joint venture in a Glastar. The LRI is installed.
Call them.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Craig Chipley
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
Why Don't those guys give some free ones for the EAA/CAFE guys to play with?
>From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
>Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 23:25:47 -0400
>
>
>Bill--may I call you Bill?
>
>That's pure marketing whitewash. What you're saying is that you don't
>know what the "reserve lift" is when the flaps are down. There are so
>many different airfoils and flap types and degrees of setting, how can
>you assign an arbitrary "2 needle width" difference between all these
>conditions, which can vary from 3-4 mph to 10-11 mph. It's smoke and
>mirrors--admit it--you have have no documentation about calibrating
>"lift reserve"--whatever that is--how about giving us an aerodynamic
>definition?--to an airfoil with and without flaps.
>
>You may have the seeds of a good idea but you haven't tested and
>developed it to the degree that you're advertising, and, it appears that
>you want US to do that for YOU.
>
>Why not hand out a few freebies, matched by PSS, and have them installed
>on opposite wings of the same aircraft? Let's see who can get accurate
>and consistent data on flying a series of known AOA airspeeds: stall,
>max L/D(best power off glide), rate and angle of climb, best endurance
>(see L/D), etc.
>
>And, again, just what exactly is "lift reserve"? If you tell me it's
>how close you are to a stall, I can get that from the Wright Brothers'
>string-on-a-stick. How about the other AOA speeds?
>
>Boyd.
>
>Bill Geipel wrote:
> >
> >
> > The electronic display unit has audible. When flaps are extended the AOA
> > that the wing stalls at is definitely different. The LRI will show about
>a 2
> > needle width difference between stall with and without flaps. In order
>to
> > keep it cheap and bullet proof, the mechanical gauge has no electricity
> > requirement. The electronic version has no compensation for flaps
>either.
> > But the indication at stall is minor. When the unit is calibrated, you
>are
> > in a clean configuration. So when flaps are lowered there is an
>automatic
> > buffer built in. Hope this helps.
> >
> > Bill
> > c
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
>
>With all this talk about AOA systems and such, is it possible just to use a
>standard stall vane (i.e., Cessna type which you can flip with your finger)
>on an RV?
>
>I guess I'm one of the "old-type" pilots who only needs a decent instrument
>panel (airspeed, altimeter, VSI, T&B, and artificial horizon) rather than
>someone who needs the fancy stuff (i.e., moving map, AOA, etc).
>
>Tom
Tim Lewis installed a stall vane on his RV-6A. Details are available at:
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a/stall.htm
Take care,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
From: | james freeman <flyeyes(at)bellsouth.net> |
on 8/4/01 7:42 AM, Bill Geipel at czech6(at)amerytel.net wrote:
>
> Bill is my name.
HI Bill. Let me preface this by emphasizing that I am not an aerodynamicist
by profession or education, and there is a good chance I'm wrong, (but then
again I'm not selling instrumnentation ;-))
As far as I can tell, the LRI, like the Wright Brothers' string, is a rough
measure of AOA relative to the fuselage. It has the advantage of measuring,
apparently repeatably , over a fairly wide range, allowing you to select a
"target AOA" for different operations. This is an advantage over the
leading edge vane type stall warner which only tells you if you are above or
below a critical AOA.
Now (getting dangerously out of my area of expertise here) as I understand
it, two relevant things happen as you lower flaps. First, the lift
coefficient of the airfoil is changed somewhat, along with increased drag.
This varies with the design of the flap and the airfoil. Second, and I think
being overlooked here, is that a trailing edge flap, like we have on most GA
airplanes, effectively -increases- the angle of incidence of the wing
relative to the fuselage when deployed.
Think about this a minute. This is why flaps improve your visibility over
the nose. This also makes the wing stall at a -lower- AOA relative to the
fuse, unless the change in the lift coefficient is the more important effect
>
Try this--(at a safe altitude, after clearing turns, etc ): A 1G stall in
level flight should occur a a very repeatable nose high attitude. Note this
attitude, and, being very careful to maintain level, unaccelerated flight.
try it again with flaps down. See where the nose is when it lets go. I
don't have enough RV time (yet;->) to say for these airplanes, but IIRC in
Cessnas with large, fowler flaps, the fuse AOA is lower.
I think this may mean the LRI has -less- margin before stall, like any
uncompensated AOA instrument
> Lets try this, like I said to someone, our unit makes no compensation for
> flaps. Therefor when it is calibrated in the clean configuration there is an
> extra margine of stall protection that ocurs when the flaps are lowered.
maybe not...
> With a non electric unit, absolutely no power required, you can't make
> compensation for flaps. (snip)
agreed, this is both a strength and weakness
>
> What I say is correct. It is conservative when you lower flaps. Correct?
>
>
> Orville and Wilbur had the right Idea. The string of yarn worked great.
Yeah, but only until everybody else had a string, then it wasn't cool enough
anymore, and they had to get more sophisticated in order to attract the
chicks.
James Freeman
RV8Q finishing Sloooooowly
>
> I hope this helps explain our position. If not, my apologies.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
Hey Bob
Ya overlook one important thing here. In those days things were build
like brick sh*thouses. There is also a lot of difference in quality of
industrial vs. home use. Yours sounds industrial.
Nowadays, things are engineered to a T. and wall thicknesses are a lot
less. I know of at least 2 airtanks which developed pinprick leaks. To
be honest I cannot tell you if it was material defect or rusting
through. Very scary, one got welded shut again. yeah yeah, a good welder
can do this but it does not bode good for the rest of the tank..
kinda like a bunch of scrapnel flying formation in the form of an
airtank if you catch my drift ;-)
As for airleaks, you tend to get what you pay for, most cheaper fittings
start to leak after some use.
Gert
Robert McCallum wrote:
>
>
> >Why depressurize? Well, I suspect your tank is made of steel. Add
> >moisture and oxygen and you get rust. At 130 psi above ambient
> >pressure you've got about 145 psi absolute pressure in the tank, or
> >about 10 times normal atmospheric pressure. So there is 10 times as
> >much oxygen, and it will rust 10 times as fast. If you view the
> >compressor tank as a throw away item, to be replaced once it rusts
> >through, then don't worry about depressurizing it. If you want it to
> >last as long as possible, then you should depressurize it after use.
> >The choice is yours. Either way it'll likely last to the end of your
> >project, unless you are a very slow builder.
>
> --
> >Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
> >Ottawa, Canada
>
> Don't mean to be argumentative but there is a flaw in this reasoning
> somewhere.
> My compressor tank bears a certification label dated 1939. (making it
> now 62 years old) My system runs at 175 PSI has 9 quick connects
> attached and has remained under this pressure constantly for the 22
> years that I have owned it. I do not ever turn off the compressor or
> drain the air from the system. The compressor never starts unless I
> consume air.(no leaks)
> The previous owner of this compressor (a BMW dealership) also left it on
> and pressurized continuously for at least 15 years that I know of. This
> tank recently passed its periodic hydrostatic test. ( thereforre it
> hasn't rusted out) My point being that depressurizing your tank is going
> to have no discernable effect on its life , that a properly designed and
> installed system should not leak, and you do not need to go to the
> trouble of releasing the pressure or the expense of pumping it back up.
> (compressed air is one of the most expensive sources of energy and
> therefore should not be wasted unnecessarily).
>
> Bob McC
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jody Villa" <jodyvilla(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Cheap Videos |
Ok Henry, since I have not heard back from Eddy Fernan you were the
next in line as far as time received on your response. Email me
privately with your address and I'll get them out to on Monday.
**************************************************
Jody Villa Tewksbury, NJ USA
*************************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: <N8335E(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cheap Videos
> Jody:
>
> If the tapes are not spoken for I'll take them. Just let me know
what the shipping charges are.
>
> Henry Hochberg
> 18022 159 ave ne
> woodinville, wa 98072
>
> thanks.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question Answer-Long |
Garry,
Thanks for the info. I'm glad to see that you've tested the effect
of water on the filters you sell.
I won't be using those filters, because I've got the Airflow
performance pump and filter, and an Andair gascolator. The fuel goes
from the selector, to the gascolator in the wing root, to the pump,
to the filter and then to the engine. The gascolator will take care
of the water, and keep crud out of the pump. The filter will catch
anything that the pump decides to shed. This system differs from the
one that Van recommends, so I'll be doing an extensive series of fuel
flow tests on the ground, with minimum fuel, and at a high pitch
attitude. I'll be staying over head the airport for the first
several hours. I'll be doing tests to see what happens if I manage
to suck a tank dry. Eustace Bowhay has a similar fuel system
configuration - he reports that it takes about 15 seconds to get the
engine running again if you suck a tank dry.
Are you in the RV Yeller Pages? If not, that might be a way to get a
bit more exposure. See:
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
>
>Kevin,
>The testing you suggest I might won't to do, were done. In 1979 and
>again in 2000.
>In 1979, after soak testing for 3 months, and ground flow tests
>using combinations
>of fuel, fuel / water and water only, a Fram (I believe it was a G-1) was
>installed on the prototype Q2. This filter was replaced (as well as almost the
>entire aircraft) at 260 hr., after Gene Shehan crashed landed the Q2
>after 1/2 the
>propeller blade departed the aircraft during a propeller test.
>When the Q2 was rebuilt the local auto parts store in Mojave was a
>Wix reseller, so
>a Wix 33001
>( equivalent to the G-1) was chosen. No testing was performed at that time
>regarding the water handling abilities of the Wix filter.
>This filter was replaced at approx. 620 hr. (360 hr. in service).
>The replacement
>was in service approx. 300 hr., until the aircraft ws sold in 1984.
>Periodically
>small droplets of water could be see in these filters. When this happened the
>filter was removed, the water was dumped out and the filter returned
>to service.
>When planing my "6"s fuel system in 2000, I again utilized a Wix
>filter ( part #
>3303 the last 3 designates a 3/8th fuel line). The same testing was
>performed as
>was performed in 1979. Only this time the fuel, fuel/water and water
>only, were
>sucked through the filter by a BD 2 ounce syringe, instead of using
>a funnel and
>pouring the fluid into it as on the first test. In addition, prior
>to performing
>these tests a filter was submerged in a jar of water for almost 6 months. When
>removed from the jar the filter flowed fuel as fast
>as it had prior to the test.
>Like many things in aviation circles, the water issue with these
>filters is another
>urban myth. At least with the Fram or Wix products.
>There may be some basis for the myth, such as some one may have used
>a econo "no
>name brand" filter that did react badly with water.
>I will continue to trust the Fram and Wix products, however, I chose
>to use the Wix
>product because the case is clear, which makes it easy to spot any
>contamination in
>the fuel while flying, and that and the pump protection is an
>"improvement on Van's
>design".
>Lets not forget the pump manufacturer says " to protect the pump
>install an inline
>fuel filter between the fuel tank and the pump inlet."
>
>
>Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>>
>> Garry,
>>
>> You might want to run some tests before selecting an in line filter.
>> I've been told that many inline filters won't flow anything at all if
>> they get contaminated with water. Water in the fuel is a fairly
>> common problem in aircraft, so you need to have a fuel system design
>> that is tolerant of it.
>
>SNIP
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kevin & Theresa Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
Subject: | AeroElectric-List: WEEKEND SEMINAR - Need list server relay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
I used o participate in about a dozen list-server
activities but he e-mail burden became too much.
Matt Dralle graciously offered relief with his support
of the Aero-Electric List. I would sincerely appreciate
it if the folks who frequent the Aero-Electric List
could relay the following information to other amateur
built airplane list-servers on which they participate:
Thanks!
----- Electrical Systems Weekend Seminar -----------
The next weekend seminar we're presenting starts two
weeks from tomorrow, August 18, in Racine, WI.
Dee and I will be driving from Wichita and we'd
like a chance to meet many of you and talk about your
project.
We're meeting on the John H. Batten airport. Some
of you may be able to fly in daily and join us for
some down and dirty electro-speak. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Racine.html
for times, location and local hotel information.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "The Wright brothers flew right through the )
( smoke screen of impossibility." )
( Charles F. Kettering )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tommy Walker" <twsurveyor(at)msn.com> |
For you "Tip-up guys"!
Does the bottom of the side flange (below the longeron)
of the 668 sub panel get riveted to the side skin? 426-3's
or 426-4's?
Tommy Walker
6A Fuselage @ the WeaselWorks in Ridgetop, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
I suspect that if you checked with ten automotive or industrial shops
that use compressed air, at least nine of them would leave the system
pressurized all the time. From the looks of some of the compressor tanks
I have seen in those types of shop, many of the compressors have been in
service a loooooooooong time! :-)
Sam Buchanan
===============================
>
> >Why depressurize? Well, I suspect your tank is made of steel. Add
> >moisture and oxygen and you get rust. At 130 psi above ambient
> >pressure you've got about 145 psi absolute pressure in the tank, or
> >about 10 times normal atmospheric pressure. So there is 10 times as
> >much oxygen, and it will rust 10 times as fast. If you view the
> >compressor tank as a throw away item, to be replaced once it rusts
> >through, then don't worry about depressurizing it. If you want it to
> >last as long as possible, then you should depressurize it after use.
> >The choice is yours. Either way it'll likely last to the end of your
> >project, unless you are a very slow builder.
>
> --
> >Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
> >Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Todd Wiechman" <toddwiechman(at)hotmail.com> |
Tail kit, wing kit, and fuselage kit.
Tail complete minus fiberglass, firewall, spars, and F-604 completed.
Everything primered inside. A&P IA built in Wichita Kansas.
First $8300.00. Please contact me online or offline at 316-721-5670 or
316-210-5670(cell) and ask for Todd.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Todd Wiechman" <toddwiechman(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Nearly Complete Rv-4 and O-320 For Sale |
RV-4 Project For Sale. Fuselage on gear and finished other than riveting on
turtledeck and putting in your intruments and interior.Interior is already
painted as is the engine mount and gear legs. Wings just need top skins
riveted on. Tail is finished. Finishing kit included. Also included is a
Lycoming O-320-E2D with only 1976 TT. Engine taken off of Cessna 172 for
upgrade to 180HP. I personally checked the compression with the engine on
the airplane, and all cylinders are in the high 70's. Magnetos are less than
60 hours old. Logs included. First $23,000 will take all of this. This will
not last long. Please call 316-721-5670(home) or 316-210-5670(cell) and ask
for Todd. Located in Wichita Kansas. I will have some pictures to send if
you give me a call.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
At Oshkosh I spoke with both the EDO representative (US distributor for Microair)
and Nigel from
Microair (at the Jabaru booth) and came away with the following information and
impresions.
1. The new Microair 760-8.33 was very impressive hand has much nicer controls
then the present 760
model (i.e. nice lighted push buttons in place of small toggle switches). I am
still trying to
decide if this, the mono intercom and higher transmit output is worth the extra
cost over the
original Microair 760.
2. The Transponder is very nice and has the same look, feel and push button controls
as the
760-8.33.
3. The Transponder has passed FAA certification but they are awaiting final paper
work prior to
shipment to the US. They expect it to be available in approximately 2 months.
4. With thier experience in how long it took to get the Transponder certified
they don't expect the
760-8.33 radio to be certified until early next year.
5. The ability of US buyers to purchase Microair equipment at lower prices from
an Australian
distributer has been stopped in order to protect thier US dealer network. They
threadend to
terminate the dealership if they continued to sell in the US. If you did buy from
overseas you may
have to send it back overseas for servicing although I do not know how the can
tell were it was
aquired from.
6. In the past the Microair 760 was only available from a few outlets. Now every
major avionics
retailer is marketing it and had a display of the old radio and new transponder.
I only saw the new
radio at the EDO display.
Frank Smidler
RV-6 in Indiana
Jim Jewell wrote:
>
>
> I was told that Microair would be at Oshkosh with their new flat pack radio
> stackable transmitter and transponder.
>
> Can anyone provide us with information and or opinions regarding Microair at
> or not at Oshkosh?
>
> If their new flat stack systems are on the market is anyone using this
> equipment as yet?
>
> Jim - in Kelowna
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Geipel" <czech6(at)amerytel.net> |
Subject: | Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
Thank you. You are correct. When the flaps are lowered, the air pressure
that all the available units are measuring, changes many feet in front of
the wing. I tend to think that we sense, through the probe, this pressure
change. We have know way at present to know this for certain. But I think
because the indication at the critical AOA when we lower flaps is only 1-2
needle widths consitantly, that again, we are indicating properly. When you
lower the flaps you are effectively building a new wing. Some of the AOA
units on the market have the ability to calibrate clean and with flaps. The
LRI only calibrates clean. One thing for sure, when you get down to this
point with or without flaps, your problems started a few knots earlier in
the day.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of james freeman
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
on 8/4/01 7:42 AM, Bill Geipel at czech6(at)amerytel.net wrote:
>
> Bill is my name.
HI Bill. Let me preface this by emphasizing that I am not an aerodynamicist
by profession or education, and there is a good chance I'm wrong, (but then
again I'm not selling instrumnentation ;-))
As far as I can tell, the LRI, like the Wright Brothers' string, is a rough
measure of AOA relative to the fuselage. It has the advantage of measuring,
apparently repeatably , over a fairly wide range, allowing you to select a
"target AOA" for different operations. This is an advantage over the
leading edge vane type stall warner which only tells you if you are above or
below a critical AOA.
Now (getting dangerously out of my area of expertise here) as I understand
it, two relevant things happen as you lower flaps. First, the lift
coefficient of the airfoil is changed somewhat, along with increased drag.
This varies with the design of the flap and the airfoil. Second, and I think
being overlooked here, is that a trailing edge flap, like we have on most GA
airplanes, effectively -increases- the angle of incidence of the wing
relative to the fuselage when deployed.
Think about this a minute. This is why flaps improve your visibility over
the nose. This also makes the wing stall at a -lower- AOA relative to the
fuse, unless the change in the lift coefficient is the more important effect
>
Try this--(at a safe altitude, after clearing turns, etc ): A 1G stall in
level flight should occur a a very repeatable nose high attitude. Note this
attitude, and, being very careful to maintain level, unaccelerated flight.
try it again with flaps down. See where the nose is when it lets go. I
don't have enough RV time (yet;->) to say for these airplanes, but IIRC in
Cessnas with large, fowler flaps, the fuse AOA is lower.
I think this may mean the LRI has -less- margin before stall, like any
uncompensated AOA instrument
> Lets try this, like I said to someone, our unit makes no compensation for
> flaps. Therefor when it is calibrated in the clean configuration there is
an
> extra margine of stall protection that ocurs when the flaps are lowered.
maybe not...
> With a non electric unit, absolutely no power required, you can't make
> compensation for flaps. (snip)
agreed, this is both a strength and weakness
>
> What I say is correct. It is conservative when you lower flaps. Correct?
>
>
> Orville and Wilbur had the right Idea. The string of yarn worked great.
Yeah, but only until everybody else had a string, then it wasn't cool enough
anymore, and they had to get more sophisticated in order to attract the
chicks.
James Freeman
RV8Q finishing Sloooooowly
>
> I hope this helps explain our position. If not, my apologies.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "bobdz" <bobdz(at)msn.com> |
Subject: | Re: Docken Spray Gun |
> tool suppliers and can't find anyone who sells the Docken spray gun.
I believe I got mine from Aircraft Spruce
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
Frank,
What's the price of the transponder? I did buy my direct and saved
about $200.oo after all was said and done.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 9:25 AM
Subject: RV-List: Microair
>
> At Oshkosh I spoke with both the EDO representative (US distributor for
Microair) and Nigel from
> Microair (at the Jabaru booth) and came away with the following
information and impresions.
>
> 1. The new Microair 760-8.33 was very impressive hand has much nicer
controls then the present 760
> model (i.e. nice lighted push buttons in place of small toggle switches).
I am still trying to
> decide if this, the mono intercom and higher transmit output is worth the
extra cost over the
> original Microair 760.
>
> 2. The Transponder is very nice and has the same look, feel and push
button controls as the
> 760-8.33.
>
> 3. The Transponder has passed FAA certification but they are awaiting
final paper work prior to
> shipment to the US. They expect it to be available in approximately 2
months.
>
> 4. With thier experience in how long it took to get the Transponder
certified they don't expect the
> 760-8.33 radio to be certified until early next year.
>
> 5. The ability of US buyers to purchase Microair equipment at lower
prices from an Australian
> distributer has been stopped in order to protect thier US dealer network.
They threadend to
> terminate the dealership if they continued to sell in the US. If you did
buy from overseas you may
> have to send it back overseas for servicing although I do not know how the
can tell were it was
> aquired from.
>
> 6. In the past the Microair 760 was only available from a few outlets.
Now every major avionics
> retailer is marketing it and had a display of the old radio and new
transponder. I only saw the new
> radio at the EDO display.
>
> Frank Smidler
> RV-6 in Indiana
>
> Jim Jewell wrote:
> >
> >
> > I was told that Microair would be at Oshkosh with their new flat pack
radio
> > stackable transmitter and transponder.
> >
> > Can anyone provide us with information and or opinions regarding
Microair at
> > or not at Oshkosh?
> >
> > If their new flat stack systems are on the market is anyone using this
> > equipment as yet?
> >
> > Jim - in Kelowna
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gordon Robertson" <gordon(at)safemail.com> |
Subject: | Stall warning switch |
Neat. Is the RV-8 wing the same as the RV-6?
Gordon Robertson
RV8-fuse
By the way, builders can make and install a Piper-style audible stall
warning system for the cost of a switch, some aluminum, and a couple
of small screws and bolts. Pictures and measurements are at my web
site, http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a/stall.htm.
Tim Lewis
Just returned from OSH, with 260 hours on RV-6A N47TD
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
Subject: | Nightmare city... |
Builders nightmare...
your sons finding baby mice crawling from your stored wings.....
Took all apart, seems so far, they nested in the styrofoam under the
leading edge. I had put a layer of plastic between the leading edge and
the styro. Guess I got lucky the mice were not more enterprising than
they were !!
Did not find anything (yet) inside the wings....
Gert
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
Subject: | Re: Canadians: RV + house insurance |
>
> Here in British Columbia I verbally asked my house insurance agent if our
> RV-6 would be covered under contents during construction in the shop at the
> rear of the separate garage. The answer was yes, as long as it wasn't a
> business venture and the aircraft was for our personal use.
I got the same answer. My insurer is BCAA.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
>(kinda like a bunch of scrapnel flying formation in the form of an
>airtank if you catch my drift ;-)
>As for airleaks, you tend to get what you pay for, most cheaper
fittings
>start to leak after some use.
>Gert
Gert;
I catch your drift. I sure wouldn't want to be the one using that tank!
Or worse yet the innocent bystander when that schrapnel decides to take
up a more random orientation.
As for getting what you pay for; most definatly, and I tend to buy the
best so that I don't ever have to buy it again. I also strive to make
perfection my goal in whatever I do as well as I don't like doing
(most) things twice either.
Bob McC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
Van's has Oops rivets. I ordered some this past Wednesday. I found them
on Van's web store site, but they would only accept orders in one pound
quantities. I ordered by phone, and they are available in .01 lb.
increments (that's one one hundredths of a pound)
Charlie Brame
RV-6AQB, finishing canopy
San Antonio
-----------------------------------
> From: gert
> rv-list
> Subject: RV-List: Oops rivets
>
>
> Hmm, went to try and order some more oops rivets from Van's, the
> NAS1097AD3-3.5 and cohorts. They are not on their website anymore.
> They still seem to have the NAS1097AD4-X.X series
>
> tried Aircraft Spruce, no luck either. Avery seems to be out of the
> rivet business also. Wicks search engine came up blank.
>
> I got some left but would like to refill the bin so to say.
>
>
> Anybody know a place to buy NAS1097AD3 rivets in quanteties less than 1
> lbs ??
>
> Thanks
>
> Gert
> --
> is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
>
August 02, 2001 - August 04, 2001
RV-Archive.digest.vol-lh