RV-Archive.digest.vol-li
August 04, 2001 - August 29, 2001
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)mari.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nightmare city... |
Gert and List:
I have posted this before, but since you brought up mice....... I learned
from an antique car guy that the way to keep mice out of your airplane is to
put fabric softener sheets in areas where they may hitch a ride. I stuffed
a couple sheets per wing when I stored them in my hangar and it has seemed
to work so far. May be worth a try for you.
Regards,
Jeff (Clondike Cat, Always Gets his Mouse!) Orear
RV6A
Fuse...on hold while the house gets built :(
Peshtigo, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: "gert" <gert(at)execpc.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 11:51 AM
Subject: RV-List: Nightmare city...
>
> Builders nightmare...
>
> your sons finding baby mice crawling from your stored wings.....
>
> Took all apart, seems so far, they nested in the styrofoam under the
> leading edge. I had put a layer of plastic between the leading edge and
> the styro. Guess I got lucky the mice were not more enterprising than
> they were !!
>
> Did not find anything (yet) inside the wings....
>
> Gert
> --
> is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel System Plumbing Question |
I plan to install two gascolators, one in each wing root, to filter the
line from each tank PRIOR to the selector valve. I also intend to use an
Airflow Performance filter somewhere after the electric boost pump. Now
I am wondering if this is an overkill or if the mechanical fuel pump
will be overtaxed drawing through two separate filters???
Charlie Brame
RV-6A, finishing canopy
San Antonio
> From: Matthew Gelber
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel System Plumbing Question
>
>
> The Airflow Performance filter is a big heavy billet aluminum thing, huge
> compared to automotive fuel filters- at least as large as a gascolator and
> probably heavier. It uses a pleated stainless steel filter that passes
> water just fine, at least according to them. Filters with paper filtering
> units are the ones that don't work, the paper absorbs the water and then the
> gas can't pass through.
>
> Compared to the Andair gascolator (the only one I've examined closely), it
> has a much larger filtering area with a little bit coarser mesh in the
> filter screen.
>
> Vans diagram shows it mounted up/down with the inlet on the bottom and the
> outlet on top. I wonder if this is so that if a slug of water gets in it
> gets bubbled through the filter instead of passed all at once? No idea...
>
> I returned my andair gascolator and am using the AP fuel filter instead.
> Why? 'Cause Vans for the 8 show an AP pump and an AP filter. Everywhere
> else I tried to better his design I came up short so I'm not going to try it
> here. (Right! I'm know I'm a sissy)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
In a message dated 8/4/01 5:08:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gert(at)execpc.com
writes:
>
> C'mon guys- I very seriously doubt we've all got armed claymores sitting
in our
> shops/garages- I suspect the failure mode for one of these devices is to
blow a
> small hole in the bottom at point of worst corrosion, rapidly de-pressurize
> without going ballistic, making a mess on the floor and probably pissing
off the
> shop dog-
> First-hand knowledge of this type of failure would be most re-assuring, if
> available... >>
I've never seen an air compressor tank fail, but I have seen failures in
pressure vessels in industrial use. Last year, I saw the aftermath from the
explosion of a tank where liquids are stored under pressure. These liquids
are subsequently "blown" from the pressurized tank to production equipment.
The tank was only pressurized to 30 PSI, but when the bottom failed, the
entire 8' diameter bottom tore out, and the tank literally broke its mounting
bolts, and launched itself into the roof of the facility. The roof stopped
the tank after about a 15' vertical flight. The liquid was sprayed for 50
yards or more around the launch pad...err tank mount. Fortunately, nobody
was near the area, and there were no injuries.
For what it is worth this tank was in the 10,000 gallon range. The liquid we
store in the tanks is viscous and abrasive, and is endlessly circulated in
the tank. This tank failed because it eroded from the inside because of the
circulating abrasive fluid.
The point is, pressure vessels fail explosively. A small failure rapidly
propigates, and the vessel comes apart very rapidly. Think about explosive
decompressions in aircraft. These are spectacular events.
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
RV-6 0-320 Aymar/Demuth
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Location |
My EBC 102 has an attached antenna and goes inside my airplane. It is
TSOed. They may have changed the requirements since I bought it but it
still passes every year.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 10:41 AM
Subject: RV-List: ELT Antenna Location
I don't recall the number right now, but I know there is a TSO on ELT's that
requires that the antenna be mounted EXTERNALLY to the airframe.
FWIW John at Salida RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net> |
"Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com"
Don't forget that is you use an external intercom, the 760-8.33 has the
option to monitor the standby frequency... The old on does not...
Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A - N8VD
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frank Smidler
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 8:26 AM
Subject: RV-List: Microair
At Oshkosh I spoke with both the EDO representative (US distributor for
Microair) and Nigel from
Microair (at the Jabaru booth) and came away with the following information
and impresions.
1. The new Microair 760-8.33 was very impressive hand has much nicer
controls then the present 760
model (i.e. nice lighted push buttons in place of small toggle switches). I
am still trying to
decide if this, the mono intercom and higher transmit output is worth the
extra cost over the
original Microair 760.
2. The Transponder is very nice and has the same look, feel and push button
controls as the
760-8.33.
3. The Transponder has passed FAA certification but they are awaiting final
paper work prior to
shipment to the US. They expect it to be available in approximately 2
months.
4. With thier experience in how long it took to get the Transponder
certified they don't expect the
760-8.33 radio to be certified until early next year.
5. The ability of US buyers to purchase Microair equipment at lower prices
from an Australian
distributer has been stopped in order to protect thier US dealer network.
They threadend to
terminate the dealership if they continued to sell in the US. If you did buy
from overseas you may
have to send it back overseas for servicing although I do not know how the
can tell were it was
aquired from.
6. In the past the Microair 760 was only available from a few outlets. Now
every major avionics
retailer is marketing it and had a display of the old radio and new
transponder. I only saw the new
radio at the EDO display.
Frank Smidler
RV-6 in Indiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Experiences |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Bell" <dbell(at)manisteenational.com>
>> I'll have you know that that the rinky dink little airport in the middle
of no where is in the prime of the golf in Michigan.....did you have your
clubs? it could have been a great stayover! <<
Doug is being a little modest. Drummend Island is near Sault Ste. Marie.
It is also a half hour flight from dozens of major golf courses - many of
which would be on the list of the top 1,000 courses in the world.
Last week I was in Oshkosh where I listened to a speaker from FLYING
magazine state that the area of northern Michigan, Wisconson, Wisconson and
"Canada" was a terrible place to live and fly, with such quotes as "who
would want to live there", "it's all swamps up there", "it is no place for
flying - where would you go", "it's no place to 'go down' - we gotta fly
safe out there", etc., etc. I assume that she was there to represent the
leading magazine in the aviation industry. I have no comment to make other
than her magazine is not on my subscription plans.
Ernest Kells RV-9A - Fuselage - 50%, Planning: O-235 Wood Prop
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Experiences |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Bell" <dbell(at)manisteenational.com>
>> I'll have you know that that the rinky dink little airport in the middle
of no where is in the prime of the golf in Michigan.....did you have your
clubs? it could have been a great stayover! <<
Doug is being a little modest. Drummend Island is near Sault Ste. Marie.
It is also a half hour flight from dozens of major golf courses - many of
which would be on the list of the top 1,000 courses in the world.
Last week I was in Oshkosh where I listened to a speaker from FLYING
magazine state that the area of northern Michigan, Wisconson, Wisconson and
"Canada" was a terrible place to live and fly, with such quotes as "who
would want to live there", "it's all swamps up there", "it is no place for
flying - where would you go", "it's no place to 'go down' - we gotta fly
safe out there", etc., etc. I assume that she was there to represent the
leading magazine in the aviation industry. I have no comment to make other
than her magazine is not on my subscription plans.
Ernest Kells RV-9A - Fuselage - 50%, Planning: O-235 Wood Prop
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Experiences |
>
> On Wednesday 25 July, I cleared Canadian Customs at Whitehorse, capitol
> of Yukon Territory. On the same day RVator Bob Bristol cleared U. S.
> Customs at Sault Ste Marie, Michigan. The experiences were quite
> different.
>
But Will, you flew your own homemade airplane to the Artic Circle. Did you
have any fun? Can you tell us anything about it?
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying (To the 15 Meter National Soaring Championships in
Uvalde, TX today)
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV4" <VansRV4GRVMJ(at)btinternet.com> |
I must agree with you Bill, the U.S customs have an area at Shannon, Eire at
their disposal for air traffic between Eire and the U.S.
So, while we're still at home they even give us grief and interogations
before we enter a plane let alone set foot in the U.S.
As for the argument that customs intercept drugs etc, (In this case not only
U.S. customs) they let more go then what they intercept, cost an absolute
fortune for the tax payer and are as any other public service, totally
ineficient and worst of all, They cost me 17.5% VAT ON ANY AIRCRAFT PART
THAT I IMPORT FROM ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD !!!!
Marcel " scrap customs" de Ruiter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV4" <VansRV4GRVMJ(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
> ever wondered why tanks/pressure vessels are pressure tested with fluid
> rather than a gas ???
an aircraft fuselage doesn't get tested with fluid. They just pressurise it
with air.
if you think in the line of aircraft, every time it pressurises it is
counted as a cycle, causing fatigue to the airframe. Would it not simply be
better to leave the darn thing pressurised and cut down on the cycles?
bare in mind that there's a huge difference in compressors, the more
expensive ones come with cast iron pump and tank, while the cheaper ones
are often all aluminium.
marcel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
test
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | ELT Requirements |
Cy, that TSO on the new ELT requirements is TSO C-91a. Among other things it
tightened the requirement for activation at lower G-forces, called for a
remote annunciator, and an external antenna. As I recall it, you could, as
you indicated you are able to, continue to use the older version made under
TSO C-91 until such time as it fails. Then a replacement must meet the new
requirements of TSO C-91Aa.
FWIW John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
It's all in the scale here, but if memory serves well, when the comet
(?) the british 1st jetliner started crashing, it was put in a specially
designed bath and pressure applied from the outside, cycled till
destruction. I believe one of the things found was the corners on the
windows being too square acting as stress risers.
RV4 wrote:
>
>
> > ever wondered why tanks/pressure vessels are pressure tested with fluid
> > rather than a gas ???
>
> an aircraft fuselage doesn't get tested with fluid. They just pressurise it
> with air.
>
> if you think in the line of aircraft, every time it pressurises it is
> counted as a cycle, causing fatigue to the airframe. Would it not simply be
> better to leave the darn thing pressurised and cut down on the cycles?
>
> bare in mind that there's a huge difference in compressors, the more
> expensive ones come with cast iron pump and tank, while the cheaper ones
> are often all aluminium.
>
> marcel
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Requirements |
I'm hoping that it will continue to work until the new high frequency ELTs
come out.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 8:42 PM
Subject: RV-List: ELT Requirements
Cy, that TSO on the new ELT requirements is TSO C-91a. Among other things it
tightened the requirement for activation at lower G-forces, called for a
remote annunciator, and an external antenna. As I recall it, you could, as
you indicated you are able to, continue to use the older version made under
TSO C-91 until such time as it fails. Then a replacement must meet the new
requirements of TSO C-91Aa.
FWIW John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel System Plumbing Question |
Charlie-
Seems like the fuel system is a toughie- ideally you'd filter before and
after the electric boost pump, that way you'd protect the boost pump and
also have a filter in case the boost pumps barfs pieces into the system.
I'd call Vans and AP to ask about this, but based on what I was told about
the filter/gascolator "resistance" by AP, you might want to modify slightly
and use two AP filters in the wing roots and one gascolator after the AP
pump. That's if you're set on a 3-filter system
Three filters might be overkill... ask the experts (Vans, Lycoming, and AP)
and tell us what they say.
And don't let you anyone talk you out of three filters if that's what you
want and the manufacturers say its OK. I'm only using one (simplicity!) but
I can see the logic in 2 and 3 filter systems as well.
Matthew
8A canopy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charles Brame
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 1:43 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fuel System Plumbing Question
I plan to install two gascolators, one in each wing root, to filter the
line from each tank PRIOR to the selector valve. I also intend to use an
Airflow Performance filter somewhere after the electric boost pump. Now
I am wondering if this is an overkill or if the mechanical fuel pump
will be overtaxed drawing through two separate filters???
Charlie Brame
RV-6A, finishing canopy
San Antonio
> From: Matthew Gelber
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel System Plumbing Question
>
>
> The Airflow Performance filter is a big heavy billet aluminum thing, huge
> compared to automotive fuel filters- at least as large as a gascolator and
> probably heavier. It uses a pleated stainless steel filter that passes
> water just fine, at least according to them. Filters with paper filtering
> units are the ones that don't work, the paper absorbs the water and then
the
> gas can't pass through.
>
> Compared to the Andair gascolator (the only one I've examined closely), it
> has a much larger filtering area with a little bit coarser mesh in the
> filter screen.
>
> Vans diagram shows it mounted up/down with the inlet on the bottom and the
> outlet on top. I wonder if this is so that if a slug of water gets in it
> gets bubbled through the filter instead of passed all at once? No idea...
>
> I returned my andair gascolator and am using the AP fuel filter instead.
> Why? 'Cause Vans for the 8 show an AP pump and an AP filter. Everywhere
> else I tried to better his design I came up short so I'm not going to try
it
> here. (Right! I'm know I'm a sissy)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question |
Matthew Gelber wrote:
>
>
> Charlie-
>
> Seems like the fuel system is a toughie- ideally you'd filter before and
> after the electric boost pump, that way you'd protect the boost pump and
> also have a filter in case the boost pumps barfs pieces into the system.
> I'd call Vans and AP to ask about this, but based on what I was told about
> the filter/gascolator "resistance" by AP, you might want to modify slightly
> and use two AP filters in the wing roots and one gascolator after the AP
> pump. That's if you're set on a 3-filter system
>
> Three filters might be overkill... ask the experts (Vans, Lycoming, and AP)
> and tell us what they say.
>
> And don't let you anyone talk you out of three filters if that's what you
> want and the manufacturers say its OK. I'm only using one (simplicity!) but
> I can see the logic in 2 and 3 filter systems as well.
>
> Matthew
> 8A canopy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charles Brame
> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 1:43 PM
> To: RV List
> Subject: RV-List: Fuel System Plumbing Question
>
>
> I plan to install two gascolators, one in each wing root, to filter the
> line from each tank PRIOR to the selector valve. I also intend to use an
> Airflow Performance filter somewhere after the electric boost pump. Now
> I am wondering if this is an overkill or if the mechanical fuel pump
> will be overtaxed drawing through two separate filters???
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A, finishing canopy
> San Antonio
>
> > From: Matthew Gelber
> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel System Plumbing Question
> >
> >
> > The Airflow Performance filter is a big heavy billet aluminum thing, huge
> > compared to automotive fuel filters- at least as large as a gascolator and
> > probably heavier. It uses a pleated stainless steel filter that passes
> > water just fine, at least according to them. Filters with paper filtering
> > units are the ones that don't work, the paper absorbs the water and then
> the
> > gas can't pass through.
> >
> > Compared to the Andair gascolator (the only one I've examined closely), it
> > has a much larger filtering area with a little bit coarser mesh in the
> > filter screen.
> >
> > Vans diagram shows it mounted up/down with the inlet on the bottom and the
> > outlet on top. I wonder if this is so that if a slug of water gets in it
> > gets bubbled through the filter instead of passed all at once? No idea...
> >
> > I returned my andair gascolator and am using the AP fuel filter instead.
> > Why? 'Cause Vans for the 8 show an AP pump and an AP filter. Everywhere
> > else I tried to better his design I came up short so I'm not going to try
> it
> > here. (Right! I'm know I'm a sissy)
> >
> >
>
Don't know how thousands of airplanes fly with just a gasculator.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com> |
Fellow Listers:
I seem to have a problem regarding my flying RV-4. Currently installed is a
Sigtronics SPA-400 Intercom. I recently replaced my Lightspeed ANR headsets
with David Clark H10-60 passive headsets. These are great headsets and all
VHF transmission and receptions are 5X5. But the intercom transmission from
front seat to rear is terrible. I can understand the person in back fine,
but they can hardly understand me.
The RV-4 is very, very noisy in the front due to the proximity of the
canopy. It just so happens that I have another SPA-400 that I was going to
install in my other -4 which is under construction. I plan to swap the new
for the old and see if there is any difference.
If not, what do the -4 and -8 guys recommend for a high quality intercom for
an extremely noisy environment. (BTW, the -6 is much quieter)
Thanks
Doug Weiler
MN Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel System Plumbing Question |
Question...
Most high wing planes that I'm familiar with have gascolators. Do most
low-wings? I think the Grummans have filters, not gascolators.
The water trap feature of the gascolator seems less of an issue on low wings
like ours since the tanks are the low point anyway. Am I wrong?
Matthew
8A canopy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Springer
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel System Plumbing Question
Don't know how thousands of airplanes fly with just a gasculator.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question Answer-Long |
Kevin, I don't sell these or any other filters.
I was joking about selling the filters. I thought some people might have got the
impression I was trying to sell them because I was such an advocate of using them.
Sorry it confused you, just trying to inject a little humor.
Garry, Caspers Dad. As of today 2.2 hours an aircraft.
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
> Garry,
>
> Thanks for the info. I'm glad to see that you've tested the effect
> of water on the filters you sell.
>
> I won't be using those filters, because I've got the Airflow
> performance pump and filter, and an Andair gascolator. The fuel goes
> from the selector, to the gascolator in the wing root, to the pump,
> to the filter and then to the engine. The gascolator will take care
> of the water, and keep crud out of the pump. The filter will catch
> anything that the pump decides to shed. This system differs from the
> one that Van recommends, so I'll be doing an extensive series of fuel
> flow tests on the ground, with minimum fuel, and at a high pitch
> attitude. I'll be staying over head the airport for the first
> several hours. I'll be doing tests to see what happens if I manage
> to suck a tank dry. Eustace Bowhay has a similar fuel system
> configuration - he reports that it takes about 15 seconds to get the
> engine running again if you suck a tank dry.
>
> Are you in the RV Yeller Pages? If not, that might be a way to get a
> bit more exposure. See:
>
> http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm
>
> Take care,
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
>
> >
> >Kevin,
> >The testing you suggest I might won't to do, were done. In 1979 and
> >again in 2000.
> >In 1979, after soak testing for 3 months, and ground flow tests
> >using combinations
> >of fuel, fuel / water and water only, a Fram (I believe it was a G-1) was
> >installed on the prototype Q2. This filter was replaced (as well as almost the
> >entire aircraft) at 260 hr., after Gene Shehan crashed landed the Q2
> >after 1/2 the
> >propeller blade departed the aircraft during a propeller test.
> >When the Q2 was rebuilt the local auto parts store in Mojave was a
> >Wix reseller, so
> >a Wix 33001
> >( equivalent to the G-1) was chosen. No testing was performed at that time
> >regarding the water handling abilities of the Wix filter.
> >This filter was replaced at approx. 620 hr. (360 hr. in service).
> >The replacement
> >was in service approx. 300 hr., until the aircraft ws sold in 1984.
> >Periodically
> >small droplets of water could be see in these filters. When this happened the
> >filter was removed, the water was dumped out and the filter returned
> >to service.
> >When planing my "6"s fuel system in 2000, I again utilized a Wix
> >filter ( part #
> >3303 the last 3 designates a 3/8th fuel line). The same testing was
> >performed as
> >was performed in 1979. Only this time the fuel, fuel/water and water
> >only, were
> >sucked through the filter by a BD 2 ounce syringe, instead of using
> >a funnel and
> >pouring the fluid into it as on the first test. In addition, prior
> >to performing
> >these tests a filter was submerged in a jar of water for almost 6 months. When
> >removed from the jar the filter flowed fuel as fast
> >as it had prior to the test.
> >Like many things in aviation circles, the water issue with these
> >filters is another
> >urban myth. At least with the Fram or Wix products.
> >There may be some basis for the myth, such as some one may have used
> >a econo "no
> >name brand" filter that did react badly with water.
> >I will continue to trust the Fram and Wix products, however, I chose
> >to use the Wix
> >product because the case is clear, which makes it easy to spot any
> >contamination in
> >the fuel while flying, and that and the pump protection is an
> >"improvement on Van's
> >design".
> >Lets not forget the pump manufacturer says " to protect the pump
> >install an inline
> >fuel filter between the fuel tank and the pump inlet."
> >
> >
> >Kevin Horton wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Garry,
> >>
> >> You might want to run some tests before selecting an in line filter.
> >> I've been told that many inline filters won't flow anything at all if
> >> they get contaminated with water. Water in the fuel is a fairly
> >> common problem in aircraft, so you need to have a fuel system design
> >> that is tolerant of it.
> >
> >SNIP
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com> |
| Subject: | Drill Size Question |
Fellow builders,
I am frustrated (to say the least) and need some help. I have been
drilling (reaming) out my HS hinge brackets in order to mount them to the
Jig. As you know, the attachment is (should be) a #3 (or 3/16") size bolt.
I have some AN3 bolts that I plan to use.
I reamed the holes first with a #12 drill to clean the paint out of the
bracket holes. The bolts were too large to go through. To experiment
further, I ran a 3/16" drill through the holes .... and the clearance
seemed to get better (but it shouldn't have because a 3/16" drill is
smaller than a #12!). But, the bolts still won't go through. I got the
#12 drill bits from Avery .... and I checked with a magnifying glass last
night that, sure enough, they are marked "12." The AN3 bolts came from
Aircraft Spruce just a few weeks ago.
Are AN3 bolts typically larger than 3/16" by a small amount?
Help Please!
I plan to borrow a micrometer and check the drill bit sizes and bolts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Spar Reinforce Plate ????? |
Morning friends,
Just getting back to building after returning from spending too many $$$
at OSH. Working on RV8 aileron. Are the A408's (spar reinforcement
plates) supplied or do I need to fashion them from stock provided? Just
can't seem to locate them.
Thanks,
Jack
RV8, wings
Good to meet many at OSH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
On 4 Aug 2001, at 7:42, Bill Geipel wrote:
> The wing
> stalls at the same AOA wstraight ahead or in a 60 degree bank (2g).
That's true. But the LRI doesn't display AoA.
>We
> have it (LRI) mounted on a military jet. We have done airwork upto 6g. It is
> still accurate.
Let's see the data.
> If you will read
> it, and more accurately if I can find it, I will send you 6" of test
> reports.
Great! I'm sending you my address off list right now.
A responsible company would do flight test across a broad envelope
of weights and G loading before selling a device with claims such as
both companies make for LRI. I look forward to seeing the
quantitative data. If such data exists, and supports their claims, they
should be glad to publish it. If not...
Tim
******
Tim Lewis -- Fairfax, VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
******
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Preventing iced up fuel vent |
Listers,
I was helping an acquaintance prepare for flight test yesterday, and an
interesting question came up: Should an IFR RV have some provision
for fuel tank venting in case an inadvertent encounter with ice causes
the fuel tank vents to ice up.
I think that's worth considering. It's my understanding that "sharp"
surfaces on the aircraft tend to ice up first. I've observed my little
OAT probe accumulate ice much quicker than my wing does. I
suspect my fuel vents were accumulating ice at the same time,
although I never give it much thought.
Potential solutions:
1. Drill a small hole from the back side of the vent, angled up, so that
air can enter the back side of the vent if the front side is plugged with
ice.
or
2. Install a "T" fitting in the vent line just above the vent (inside the
cockpit). From the T, run a line up to a valve within the pilot's reach.
The valve could be opened in case ice blocks the external fuel vent.
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
Tim
******
Tim Lewis -- Fairfax, VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
******
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
test
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Preventing iced up fuel vent |
What do they do in IFR certified Cessna's? I fly one but can't remember how
it works. As you may have read before I flew with at least 1/4" of ice on
the tires/leading edges of a 'non IFR' 170B. We did not encounter engine
problems due to fuel vents freezing.
FWIW,
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Lewis
Sent: August 5, 2001 10:08 AM
Subject: RV-List: Preventing iced up fuel vent
Listers,
I was helping an acquaintance prepare for flight test yesterday, and an
interesting question came up: Should an IFR RV have some provision
for fuel tank venting in case an inadvertent encounter with ice causes
the fuel tank vents to ice up.
I think that's worth considering. It's my understanding that "sharp"
surfaces on the aircraft tend to ice up first. I've observed my little
OAT probe accumulate ice much quicker than my wing does. I
suspect my fuel vents were accumulating ice at the same time,
although I never give it much thought.
Potential solutions:
1. Drill a small hole from the back side of the vent, angled up, so that
air can enter the back side of the vent if the front side is plugged with
ice.
or
2. Install a "T" fitting in the vent line just above the vent (inside the
cockpit). From the T, run a line up to a valve within the pilot's reach.
The valve could be opened in case ice blocks the external fuel vent.
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
Tim
******
Tim Lewis -- Fairfax, VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
******
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Spar Reinforce Plate ????? |
Jack,
You will find them cut to exact size in bag 419. You only have to radius
them and drill the holes.
My apologies of this shows up more than once. I have trouble with my e-mail.
Are
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jack Textor
Sent: August 6, 2001 12:53 PM
Subject: RV-List: Spar Reinforce Plate ?????
Morning friends,
Just getting back to building after returning from spending too many $$$
at OSH. Working on RV8 aileron. Are the A408's (spar reinforcement
plates) supplied or do I need to fashion them from stock provided? Just
can't seem to locate them.
Thanks,
Jack
RV8, wings
Good to meet many at OSH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Preventing iced up fuel vent |
Subject: RV-List: Preventing iced up fuel vent
>
> Listers,
>
> I was helping an acquaintance prepare for flight test yesterday, and an
> interesting question came up: Should an IFR RV have some provision
> for fuel tank venting in case an inadvertent encounter with ice causes
> the fuel tank vents to ice up.
>
> I think that's worth considering. It's my understanding that "sharp"
> surfaces on the aircraft tend to ice up first. I've observed my little
> OAT probe accumulate ice much quicker than my wing does. I
> suspect my fuel vents were accumulating ice at the same time,
> although I never give it much thought.
>
> Potential solutions:
>
> 1. Drill a small hole from the back side of the vent, angled up, so that
> air can enter the back side of the vent if the front side is plugged with
> ice.
>
> or
>
> 2. Install a "T" fitting in the vent line just above the vent (inside the
> cockpit). From the T, run a line up to a valve within the pilot's reach.
> The valve could be opened in case ice blocks the external fuel vent.
>
> I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
>
> Tim
> ******
> Tim Lewis -- Fairfax, VA
> RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
Tim,
What ever you decide to do, make certain that positive air pressure is
maintain in the vent tube - else you could end up having a couple of gallons
of fuel sucked out. Just a thought.
Ed Anderson
Matthews, NC
RV-6A N494BW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Preventing iced up fuel vent |
On a second thought, will ice accumulate so close behind the prop? I have no
idea, just guessing.
Are
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Lewis
Sent: August 5, 2001 10:08 AM
Subject: RV-List: Preventing iced up fuel vent
Listers,
I was helping an acquaintance prepare for flight test yesterday, and an
interesting question came up: Should an IFR RV have some provision
for fuel tank venting in case an inadvertent encounter with ice causes
the fuel tank vents to ice up.
I think that's worth considering. It's my understanding that "sharp"
surfaces on the aircraft tend to ice up first. I've observed my little
OAT probe accumulate ice much quicker than my wing does. I
suspect my fuel vents were accumulating ice at the same time,
although I never give it much thought.
Potential solutions:
1. Drill a small hole from the back side of the vent, angled up, so that
air can enter the back side of the vent if the front side is plugged with
ice.
or
2. Install a "T" fitting in the vent line just above the vent (inside the
cockpit). From the T, run a line up to a valve within the pilot's reach.
The valve could be opened in case ice blocks the external fuel vent.
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
Tim
******
Tim Lewis -- Fairfax, VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
******
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Cherroff" <sam(at)videoassist.com> |
Hi,
I just bought a Cleco brand aligator style pneumatic rivet squeezer
and I was wondering if any listers could point me to where I can find
the small anvils or whatever the bits are called? It looks pretty old,
and there is no reference to it on the Cleco/Cooper Tools website.
Also, there doesn't seem to be an adjustment for the amount of
squeeze it achieves. How do you control these things? Is it just a
matter of varying the air pressure it's fed?
Thanks,
--Sam
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question |
>Matthew Gelber wrote:
>>
>>
>> Charlie-
>>
>> Seems like the fuel system is a toughie- ideally you'd filter before
>and
>> after the electric boost pump, that way you'd protect the boost pump
>and
>> also have a filter in case the boost pumps barfs pieces into the system.
>> I'd call Vans and AP to ask about this, but based on what I was told
>about
>> the filter/gascolator "resistance" by AP, you might want to modify slightly
>> and use two AP filters in the wing roots and one gascolator after the
>AP
>> pump. That's if you're set on a 3-filter system
>>
>> Three filters might be overkill... ask the experts (Vans, Lycoming, and
>AP)
>> and tell us what they say.
>>
>> And don't let you anyone talk you out of three filters if that's what
>you
>> want and the manufacturers say its OK. I'm only using one (simplicity!)
>but
>> I can see the logic in 2 and 3 filter systems as well.
>>
>> Matthew
>> 8A canopy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charles Brame
>> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 1:43 PM
>> To: RV List
>> Subject: RV-List: Fuel System Plumbing Question
>>
>>
>> I plan to install two gascolators, one in each wing root, to filter the
>> line from each tank PRIOR to the selector valve. I also intend to use
>an
>> Airflow Performance filter somewhere after the electric boost pump.
>Now
>> I am wondering if this is an overkill or if the mechanical fuel pump
>> will be overtaxed drawing through two separate filters???
>>
>> Charlie Brame
>> RV-6A, finishing canopy
>> San Antonio
>>
>> > From: Matthew Gelber
>> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel System Plumbing Question
>> >
>> >
>> > The Airflow Performance filter is a big heavy billet aluminum thing,
>huge
>> > compared to automotive fuel filters- at least as large as a gascolator
>and
>> > probably heavier. It uses a pleated stainless steel filter that passes
>> > water just fine, at least according to them. Filters with paper
filtering
>> > units are the ones that don't work, the paper absorbs the water and
>then
>> the
>> > gas can't pass through.
>> >
>> > Compared to the Andair gascolator (the only one I've examined closely),
>it
>> > has a much larger filtering area with a little bit coarser mesh in
>the
>> > filter screen.
>> >
>> > Vans diagram shows it mounted up/down with the inlet on the bottom
>and the
>> > outlet on top. I wonder if this is so that if a slug of water gets
>in it
>> > gets bubbled through the filter instead of passed all at once? No
>idea...
>> >
>> > I returned my andair gascolator and am using the AP fuel filter instead.
>> > Why? 'Cause Vans for the 8 show an AP pump and an AP filter. Everywhere
>> > else I tried to better his design I came up short so I'm not going
>to try
>> it
>> > here. (Right! I'm know I'm a sissy)
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
Have you noticed that "overkill" has the word "kill" in it? You just might
filter your gas so much it never gets to the combustion chamber. A gascolator
is designed to stop particles large enough to disrupt flow through the
intended route of the machinery which produces grin factor. Smaller particles
blow right through and out our pleasantly noisy unmuffled exhaust. Flying is
not a sport for the paranoid. Just relax and have fun.
Just my humble opinion.
Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C & M Ross" <ross.cm(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | engine failures with constant speed props |
I just read a sad tale of a builder who had the misfortune of a first flight
engine failure. He survived but lost his pretty RV-6. He commented that the
rate of descent with the constant speed prop windmilling was incredible.
Those of you who fly C.S. props owe it to yourselves to give this a try:
Allow your engine to cool and at a set point, altitude and airspeed pull
the throttle to idle and see how far you glide with the prop at full fine.
You could start at a GPS waypoint and store the point you've reached after
desending 1000 ', whatever works best for you. Then repeat the test using
the same start point and direction but with the prop set full coarse.
It can make the difference between not making the runway and not only making
it but being so high you have to slip off some altitude to prevent
overshooting it.
Chuck Ross
Vernon, B.C.
RV4 CG-EAU
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: trouble w/ e-mail list |
dear listers,
for about 2 weeks now, i've only been getting maybe 5 or 6 e-mails from the
rv list a day. i know oshkosh is finished, but where did everyone go? did
something happen to the list server that i don't know about? did i get put on
a rv specific list?i'm used to getting like 60-70 a day.
scott
lonesome and bored in
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Gray <bruce.gray(at)snet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine failures with constant speed props |
One of the first things they teach in Glasair III transition training is that if
the engine quits, the prop is pulled to coarse pitch. Glasair III's have a
gear/flaps down, fine pitch sink rate in excess of 3,000 fpm. We have a big 80
inch prop up there.
Bruce
Glasair III
C & M Ross wrote:
>
> I just read a sad tale of a builder who had the misfortune of a first flight
> engine failure. He survived but lost his pretty RV-6. He commented that the
> rate of descent with the constant speed prop windmilling was incredible.
>
> Those of you who fly C.S. props owe it to yourselves to give this a try:
>
> Allow your engine to cool and at a set point, altitude and airspeed pull
> the throttle to idle and see how far you glide with the prop at full fine.
> You could start at a GPS waypoint and store the point you've reached after
> desending 1000 ', whatever works best for you. Then repeat the test using
> the same start point and direction but with the prop set full coarse.
>
> It can make the difference between not making the runway and not only making
> it but being so high you have to slip off some altitude to prevent
> overshooting it.
>
> Chuck Ross
> Vernon, B.C.
> RV4 CG-EAU
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: trouble w/ e-mail list |
ABAYMAN(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> dear listers,
> for about 2 weeks now, i've only been getting maybe 5 or 6 e-mails from the
> rv list a day. i know oshkosh is finished, but where did everyone go? did
> something happen to the list server that i don't know about? did i get put on
> a rv specific list?i'm used to getting like 60-70 a day.
> scott
> lonesome and bored in
> tampa
>
Scott I still get the regular amount of B*.... I mean messages. :)
Last week Matt posted a message that he was having some trouble
with his isp. I don't remember what he said it was and when I went to
look for the message I guess I had deleted it. Someone else here have
the message from Matt?
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
Cy Galley wrote:
>
>
> Boy, Do you have that wrong! When they go... it produces a large explosive
> force.
>
> I wrote an article several years ago in Sport Aviation with a picture of the
> tank split wide open such that the tank looked like it had wings.
>
> After I published the article, several others came up and said, It happened
> to me also. "I went into town and when I came back then was this large hole
> where the tank of my new compressor came thru the roof", was one comment.
>
> Another wound up in hospital with a broken leg. The explosion ruined the
> over head door so the rescuers had to break in to get him out. Broke an arm
> if I remember correctly. Said he was lucky that he wasn't looking down at
> the bench when it blew or it would have taken off his head.
>
> I will send you a scan off list of a picture I took. If you think the tank
> was weak, think again as I dropped it from a height of over 10 feet after it
> blew up and it didn't change it shape.
>
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>
snipped
I'd like to learn more about the catastrophic failures. Did
the tanks that launched through roofs have weld failures of
the end caps, or did the failure start at a thin 'point'
caused by rust? If the failure was at a point of
'rust-through, how much of the tank interior had heavy rust
damage? In other words, was the tank neglected for an
extended period resulting in a large area of failure due to
standing water over a large area in the tank? Were the
over-pressure safety valves checked afterward for proper
operation? Was the pressure switch controlling the
compressor checked for proper operation?
It's easy to see how even 30 psi over the area of an entire
end-cap would create a potent missle.
BTW, can you remember which issue the article was in? I'd
like to read it again.
Thanks,
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jessen <jjessen(at)cmbinfo.com> |
| Subject: | Anyone in KC need a hand |
Folks:
While traveling this week on business I will be in Kansas City, and might
have Wednesday (8th) and Thursday (9th) evening to lend a hand, or just
stand around and admire the work, giving appropriate words of encouragement
and admiration. Of course I'd always be available to help fly.
You can leave a message here or leave a message on the cell
phone...781-929-6266.
And Dean, thanks for the visit. Your RV-4 looks great! Ian and I went
right home and filled out the order form for the RV-7.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andy <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | spanwise striping on wings |
Has anybody ever heard of anyone having aerodynamic problems from painting
spanwise stripes on their wings, or spanwise trim tape.
I know this was an issue with some other aircraft such as Q2s and Dragonflies.
Even excess bugs or rain near the leading edge would cause serious control
problems. Ever hear of this on an RV?
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PlaneWizz(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | I Found It ... RV 10 |
The April 1998 Issue of Sport Aviation, page 133, has a picture of Bart
Dalton's " RV Plus".
He describes the plane as having an IO-540 Lycoming (260 hp), constant speed
prop,
4 seats, 68 gallons of fuel and 600x6 wheels and brakes.
His phone # is (918) 272.8551.
I wonder if Van took a look at the modification?
DRP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com> |
-------------Forwarded Message-----------------
>On a second thought, will ice accumulate so close behind the prop?
Yes, it will.
Tim
Pittsburgh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Are Barstad <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Spar Reinforce Plate ????? |
Jack,
You will find them cut to exact size in bag 419. You only have to radius them and
drill the holes.
Are
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jack Textor
Sent: August 6, 2001 12:53 PM
Subject: RV-List: Spar Reinforce Plate ?????
Morning friends,
Just getting back to building after returning from spending too many $$$ at OSH.
Working on RV8 aileron. Are the A408's (spar reinforcement plates) supplied
or do I need to fashion them from stock provided? Just can't seem to locate
them.
Thanks,
Jack
RV8, wings
Good to meet many at OSH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Spar Reinforce Plate ????? |
Jack,
You will find them cut to exact size in bag 419. You only have to radius
them and drill the holes.
Are
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jack Textor
Sent: August 6, 2001 12:53 PM
Subject: RV-List: Spar Reinforce Plate ?????
Morning friends,
Just getting back to building after returning from spending too many $$$
at OSH. Working on RV8 aileron. Are the A408's (spar reinforcement
plates) supplied or do I need to fashion them from stock provided? Just
can't seem to locate them.
Thanks,
Jack
RV8, wings
Good to meet many at OSH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | O-320 constant speed |
To those in the know.
I'm trying to understand the set-up for constant speed on my O-320 D1A. I
have the governor drive in the accessory case (right-bottom facing the rear
like it sits in the plane) and it has the oil pressure line fitting in it. I
assume this line goes to the governor which mounts up front somewhere. Then
I also assume that the oil returns through the crank. Is this all correct?
Does the governor just control the pressure sent through the line from the
back? I have an OH manual but it doesn't explain any of this.
Greg Tanner
RV-9A Wings
SER #90186 N80BR RESERVED
O-320 D1A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale H" <ryanpilot(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List: Drill Size Question |
Very often when drilling thin sheet metal, the hole comes out slightly
triangular rather than perfectly round. If in fact you have this condition
the bolts will not go through. Its usually better to drill undersize then
ream to the finish size.
Dale Hollingworth
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 4:14 AM
Subject: RV7-List: Drill Size Question
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Ellis H Mcgaughy"
>
> Fellow builders,
>
> I am frustrated (to say the least) and need some help. I have been
> drilling (reaming) out my HS hinge brackets in order to mount them to the
> Jig. As you know, the attachment is (should be) a #3 (or 3/16") size
bolt.
> I have some AN3 bolts that I plan to use.
>
> I reamed the holes first with a #12 drill to clean the paint out of the
> bracket holes. The bolts were too large to go through. To experiment
> further, I ran a 3/16" drill through the holes .... and the clearance
> seemed to get better (but it shouldn't have because a 3/16" drill is
> smaller than a #12!). But, the bolts still won't go through. I got the
> #12 drill bits from Avery .... and I checked with a magnifying glass last
> night that, sure enough, they are marked "12." The AN3 bolts came from
> Aircraft Spruce just a few weeks ago.
>
> Are AN3 bolts typically larger than 3/16" by a small amount?
>
> Help Please!
>
> I plan to borrow a micrometer and check the drill bit sizes and bolts.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Attach and alignment. |
Using the tooling holes for alignment worked fine for me. Now, I know that
it's not corect to take measurements off a drawing and use them directly,
but I've found that in the CAD designed RV-8 that it's a good guide. My
inner aileron brackets were not exactly a perfect fit over the drawing due
to a manufacturing deviation, but allowing for that, I found that the
position of the brackets on the drawing was dead on for me.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 finishing wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Besing" <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aileron Attach and alignment.
>
> FYI, a local professional builder has built 4 RV's
> this way, and I recently got off the phone with Miles
> at Van's and he suggested I re-align my ailerons using
> the tooling holes instead of the wood template.
>
> The wings are indeed designed off the tooling holes.
> Think about it. If you were not consistant where the
> location of the tooling holes were located, the ribs
> would not be consistantly formed. Another check.
> Align the wing to the aileron with the ruler method,
> and then check your tooling holes. I'd bet the farm
> that it is pretty darn close.
>
> Paul
>
> --- Todd Rudberg wrote:
> >
> >
> > Definitely Van-dalized...not the first
> > time...usually
> > I read far enough ahead and catch it.
> >
> > I agree with you on the tooling holes. They are not
> > an interesting part of this discussion. OML rules,
> > tooling holes are just that...tooling holes used by
> > Van's rib forming vendor.
> >
> >
> > Todd.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Stall Warning - LRI - AoA |
First of all: Thanks Bill for going through so much trouble for us by
creating 6" of reports. If results are as good as you say, these should
produce a solid business case.
I don't think Bill will have too much trouble finding 6" of reports. That's
one big pile plus I can't even imagine all the test flying (not to mention
expense - military jet? Wow!) that was done to produce all this. 6" must be
close to 2000 pages. Sticking it some place not knowing where it is would be
pretty stupid. Even if he can't find it, I'm sure there would be a back-up
copy of a document being so crucial to his business.
Can't wait to see extracts from the test reports as soon Tim gets them!
p.s.
Just curious: What speeds was the protruding probe tested up to? Being on a
737( If I read it right), it must be capable of ~500 mph? How far in from
the leading edge did they install the probe? Did they try different
positions? If so, did it make a difference?
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Lewis
Sent: August 5, 2001 9:22 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Stall Warning - LRI - AoA
On 4 Aug 2001, at 7:42, Bill Geipel wrote:
> The wing
> stalls at the same AOA wstraight ahead or in a 60 degree bank (2g).
That's true. But the LRI doesn't display AoA.
>We
> have it (LRI) mounted on a military jet. We have done airwork upto 6g. It
is
> still accurate.
Let's see the data.
> If you will read
> it, and more accurately if I can find it, I will send you 6" of test
> reports.
Great! I'm sending you my address off list right now.
A responsible company would do flight test across a broad envelope
of weights and G loading before selling a device with claims such as
both companies make for LRI. I look forward to seeing the
quantitative data. If such data exists, and supports their claims, they
should be glad to publish it. If not...
Tim
******
Tim Lewis -- Fairfax, VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
******
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel indicater queston |
Friends Has anyone removed a fuel indicater from an RV
without removing tank from aircraft? Small space between fuselage and tank.
Thanks TMB1564(at)AOL.COM
RV3B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question |
In a message dated 8/4/01 8:05:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net writes:
>
>
> Matthew Gelber wrote:
> >
> >
> > Charlie-
> >
> > Seems like the fuel system is a toughie- ideally you'd filter before and
> > after the electric boost pump, that way you'd protect the boost pump and
> > also have a filter in case the boost pumps barfs pieces into the system.
> > I'd call Vans and AP to ask about this, but based on what I was told about
> > the filter/gascolator "resistance" by AP, you might want to modify
> slightly
> > and use two AP filters in the wing roots and one gascolator after the AP
> > pump. That's if you're set on a 3-filter system
> >
> > Three filters might be overkill... ask the experts (Vans, Lycoming, and
> AP)
> > and tell us what they say.
> >
> > And don't let you anyone talk you out of three filters if that's what you
> > want and the manufacturers say its OK. I'm only using one (simplicity!)
> but
> > I can see the logic in 2 and 3 filter systems as well.
> >
> > Matthew
> > 8A canopy
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charles Brame
> > Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 1:43 PM
> > To: RV List
> > Subject: RV-List: Fuel System Plumbing Question
> >
> >
> > I plan to install two gascolators, one in each wing root, to filter the
> > line from each tank PRIOR to the selector valve. I also intend to use an
> > Airflow Performance filter somewhere after the electric boost pump. Now
> > I am wondering if this is an overkill or if the mechanical fuel pump
> > will be overtaxed drawing through two separate filters???
> >
> > Charlie Brame
> > RV-6A, finishing canopy
> > San Antonio
> >
> > > From: Matthew Gelber
> > > Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel System Plumbing Question
> > >
> > >
> > > The Airflow Performance filter is a big heavy billet aluminum thing,
> huge
> > > compared to automotive fuel filters- at least as large as a gascolator
> and
> > > probably heavier. It uses a pleated stainless steel filter that passes
> > > water just fine, at least according to them. Filters with paper
> filtering
> > > units are the ones that don't work, the paper absorbs the water and then
> > the
> > > gas can't pass through.
> > >
> > > Compared to the Andair gascolator (the only one I've examined closely),
> it
> > > has a much larger filtering area with a little bit coarser mesh in the
> > > filter screen.
> > >
> > > Vans diagram shows it mounted up/down with the inlet on the bottom and
> the
> > > outlet on top. I wonder if this is so that if a slug of water gets in
> it
> > > gets bubbled through the filter instead of passed all at once? No
> idea...
> > >
> > > I returned my andair gascolator and am using the AP fuel filter instead.
> > > Why? 'Cause Vans for the 8 show an AP pump and an AP filter.
> Everywhere
> > > else I tried to better his design I came up short so I'm not going to
> try
> > it
> > > here. (Right! I'm know I'm a sissy)
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> Don't know how thousands of airplanes fly with just a gasculator.
>
>
>
Man talk about over engineering......here are my thoughts....
1. Every connection is a possible leak point.
2. Gas is filtered at the pump.
3. Gascolators are designed to remove water & sediment and do a good job at
it with out over complicating the fuel system.
4. Keeping it simple is always the best.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill Size Question |
-----Original Message-----
From: Ellis H Mcgaughy <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com>
Subject: RV-List: Drill Size Question
>I am frustrated (to say the least) and need some help.
Ellis: The AN3 bolt shanks I have measured have varied considerably in
diameter. Others have noted that a twist drill tends to make a slightly
triangular hole and my experience supports the idea. One good fix is to
abtain a chucking reamer in .1885" diameter and finish the bolt holes with
it. You may have to ream again after paint. Of course a 3/16" (.1875")
reamer can be used if you have a batch of bolts that are small enough.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel indicater queston |
Yes, on an RV-6.
Sam Buchanan
==================
TMB1564(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Friends Has anyone removed a fuel indicater from an RV
> without removing tank from aircraft? Small space between fuselage and tank.
>
> Thanks TMB1564(at)AOL.COM
> RV3B
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Spinner, Aerobatic Prop |
| From: | Anthony J Castellano <tcastella(at)juno.com> |
Scott Jordan, who is completing his RV8, found that the spinner supplied
by Van's
hits the counter weights on his aerobatic constant speed prop when the
prop goes
to maximum pitch.
Has anyone on the list used a aerobatic constant speed prop on an RV, and
if so,
what did you do about a spinner?
Tony Castellano
tcastella(at)juno.com
Hopewell Junction, NY
RV-6 N401TC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel indicater queston |
| From: | Anthony J Castellano <tcastella(at)juno.com> |
Yes i've done it twice. No problem. work from the bottom and you only
have to remove the screws on the bottom of the wing fairing. There is
more than enough room.
Tony Castellano
tcastella(at)juno.com
Hopewell Junction, NY
RV-6 N401TC
>
>Friends Has anyone removed a fuel indicater from an
>RV
>without removing tank from aircraft? Small space between fuselage and
>tank.
>
> Thanks TMB1564(at)AOL.COM
> RV3B
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Radio Stack Braces |
List:
Does anyone have pictures that you can email me off line of the angle bracing
you used for your radios. Thanks !!
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, N.C. 910LL (res)
Instruments & Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: spanwise striping on wings |
on one of the older rvator mags..tghere is a pix if the "bounty hunter" that has
the stripes on it...don't know who ownes it, ( and would like to know), but it
sure looks good!..I plan to paint mine with the stripes...
RV8A saving for paint, and nerve to fly the thing
Andy wrote:
>
> Has anybody ever heard of anyone having aerodynamic problems from painting
> spanwise stripes on their wings, or spanwise trim tape.
>
> I know this was an issue with some other aircraft such as Q2s and Dragonflies.
> Even excess bugs or rain near the leading edge would cause serious control
> problems. Ever hear of this on an RV?
>
> Andy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
I can't remember the issue or the EAA magazine. but I have attached a scan
of a picture I took, of the tank. It had rusted to less than half thickness.
The system was old, seldom drained, had pinholes brazed shut, PLUS no safety
valve so when the pressure switch failed....
Fortunately it wasn't mine but a farmer friend's and no one was hurt... This
Time!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie and Tupper England" <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: My new air compressor
Cy Galley wrote:
>
>
> Boy, Do you have that wrong! When they go... it produces a large explosive
> force.
>
> I wrote an article several years ago in Sport Aviation with a picture of
the
> tank split wide open such that the tank looked like it had wings.
>
> After I published the article, several others came up and said, It
happened
> to me also. "I went into town and when I came back then was this large
hole
> where the tank of my new compressor came thru the roof", was one comment.
>
> Another wound up in hospital with a broken leg. The explosion ruined the
> over head door so the rescuers had to break in to get him out. Broke an
arm
> if I remember correctly. Said he was lucky that he wasn't looking down at
> the bench when it blew or it would have taken off his head.
>
> I will send you a scan off list of a picture I took. If you think the
tank
> was weak, think again as I dropped it from a height of over 10 feet after
it
> blew up and it didn't change it shape.
>
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>
snipped
I'd like to learn more about the catastrophic failures. Did
the tanks that launched through roofs have weld failures of
the end caps, or did the failure start at a thin 'point'
caused by rust? If the failure was at a point of
'rust-through, how much of the tank interior had heavy rust
damage? In other words, was the tank neglected for an
extended period resulting in a large area of failure due to
standing water over a large area in the tank? Were the
over-pressure safety valves checked afterward for proper
operation? Was the pressure switch controlling the
compressor checked for proper operation?
It's easy to see how even 30 psi over the area of an entire
end-cap would create a potent missle.
BTW, can you remember which issue the article was in? I'd
like to read it again.
Thanks,
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
Insights into the Van's 4-seater:
At the OSH RV banquet Van was asked about the nomenclature for
the 4 seater. He said there's no reason not to use RV-10, since it's the
next number in sequence.
Other insights he gave us: low wing, the tail has been fabricated and
passed testing before OSH. Engine 200-260 HP. Projected 1100 lb
useful load. Doors, not sliding canopy.
The next day I chatted with Ken Krueger (Van's engineering staff)
about the design goals of the RV-10. Ken indicated they are aiming
for cruise speed the same as the RV-6. Engines up for consideration
range from the Lycoming IO-360 to several different versions of the IO-
540, as well as engines from Franklin and Continental.
Tim
******
Tim Lewis -- Fairfax, VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
******
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <komisar(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 FOR SALE |
Todd,
Please condider my offer a stanting one!! Let me know when you are ready
and I will bring you cash!
Thanks,
Marty
RV6A#23340
----- Original Message -----
From: Todd Wiechman <toddwiechman(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 3:26 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-6 FOR SALE
>
> Tail kit, wing kit, and fuselage kit.
> Tail complete minus fiberglass, firewall, spars, and F-604 completed.
> Everything primered inside. A&P IA built in Wichita Kansas.
> First $8300.00. Please contact me online or offline at 316-721-5670 or
> 316-210-5670(cell) and ask for Todd.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca> |
| Subject: | Preventing iced up fuel vent |
--
Subject: RV-List: Preventing iced up fuel vent
(snip)
Potential solutions:
1. Drill a small hole from the back side of the vent, angled up, so that
air can enter the back side of the vent if the front side is plugged with
ice.
or
2. Install a "T" fitting in the vent line just above the vent (inside the
cockpit). From the T, run a line up to a valve within the pilot's reach.
The valve could be opened in case ice blocks the external fuel vent.
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
Tim Lewis -- Fairfax, VA
-------------------------------------------------
Tim
I went with your number one solution, - drilled 1/16 inch holes in aft side
of fuel vents and also epoxied a fine mesh screen inside to keep insects out
of the vent opening.
Planning to flight test this next spring.
With the fuel vent line starting at the outboard end of the tank and
meandering around the cockpit to the bottom of the firewall I even
considered running the vent line outboard to the wingtip and a miniture NACA
scoop but decided to stay with the standard setup.
George McNutt
Langley B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: O-320 constant speed |
Hello Greg,
On my 0360-A1A the McCauley governor fits onto the back of the governor
drive adapter. Am I right to think this "drive adapter" is the part with the
oil line fitting that you refer to?
An oil line (stainless tube or optional flexible) will come off of the
governor drive fitting, and go to the right upper front of the engine case
(as viewed from the rear). The oil is then routed internally into the
propeller hub then returned to the engine through the crankshaft. The
governor and the oil filter are the reason for the added recess box on the
firewall.
The following is from the manual that came with my Hartzell CY2K:
A C/S propeller system is controlled by engine speed sensing device
(governor) to maintain constant engine/propeller RPM.
by changing the propeller angle.
The governor uses an internal pump that is driven by the engine. This pump
increases engine oil pressure for supply to the prop. Engine speed sensing
hardware within the governor controls the supply of oil to the propeller,
supplying or draining oil as appropriate to maintain constant engine speed.
Propeller blade angle change is accomplished via a hydraulic
piston/cylinder combination mounted on the forward end of the prop hub. The
linear motion of the hydraulic piston is transmitted to each blade through a
pitch change rod and a fork. A pitch change knob, located at the base of
each blade, is in contact with the fork. Each blade is mounted in a
retention bearing. The retention bearing holds the blade firmly in the hub,
but also allows the blade angle to change.
Propeller forces consisting of : 1) mechanical spring action, 2) cylinder
air charge, 3) counter weights, 4) and centrifugal twisting moment on the
blades, in a variety of combinations, are constantly present on the blade
while the propeller is operating. The summation of these forces is opposed
by a variable hydraulic force (oil pressure from the engine driven
governor). Oil pressure is metered by the governor to oppose this constant
force. The propeller forces, opposed by the variable hydraulic force cause
the propeller blade angle to increase, decrease, or maintain current
setting.
Oil under pressure from the engine-driven governor is supplied to the
hydraulic cylinder through the pitch change rod increasing or decreasing
the oil volume within the hydraulic cylinder either increases blade angle to
reduces engine RPM., or reduces blade angle to increase engine RPM (within
limits) independent of the throttle setting.
If oil pressure is lost at any time, the summation of propeller forces,
which is in direct opposition to the lost variable hydraulic force, either
increases or reduces blade angle, depending on the propeller model.
In short, yes the governor modulates the engine oil pressure adding or
reducing it as is needed (within limits) per manual rpm setting (pitch
control).
If you can wrap your head around the above in one reading you will win
rv-list D.S.F. (damn smart fellow) award for the week, maybe the month!
(Hint) the drawing on the opposite page in the manual helps, but not much.
I hope this helps
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 1:29 PM
Subject: RV-List: O-320 constant speed
>
> To those in the know.
> I'm trying to understand the set-up for constant speed on my O-320 D1A. I
> have the governor drive in the accessory case (right-bottom facing the
rear
> like it sits in the plane) and it has the oil pressure line fitting in it.
I
> assume this line goes to the governor which mounts up front somewhere.
Then
> I also assume that the oil returns through the crank. Is this all correct?
> Does the governor just control the pressure sent through the line from the
> back? I have an OH manual but it doesn't explain any of this.
>
> Greg Tanner
> RV-9A Wings
> SER #90186 N80BR RESERVED
> O-320 D1A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: spanwise striping on wings |
Theoretically, yes--pratically, no. It also depends on how the stripes
are applied, ie., "on top" of the base coat or "as part of" or "set
into" the base coat and whether or not a clear coat is applied. Most
people looking for pure speed would probably avoid it, IMHO, but otherwise....
Andy wrote:
>
>
> Has anybody ever heard of anyone having aerodynamic problems from painting
> spanwise stripes on their wings, or spanwise trim tape.
>
> I know this was an issue with some other aircraft such as Q2s and Dragonflies.
> Even excess bugs or rain near the leading edge would cause serious control
> problems. Ever hear of this on an RV?
>
> Andy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Options |
> I'm debating lighting options. I see Van's has a wing tip lens kit for
> $159. Is this an enclosed wingtip light lens and is it worth it? I'm
> trying to decide if I should put a white light in the rudder fairing or go
> with the Whelan "all in one" wingtip lights. I don't see how you could
> enclose that in a flush tip lens and still see the white trailing light.
> Any suggestions?
My opinion only, the flush wingtip lighting looks the best. Go for position
and strobes flush in the tips and a strobe/tail position light in the
rudder. It is a very noticeable custom piece of detail but I recommend that
the rear facing white light be installed in the rudder as the three in one
only works when mounted out on the little optional platforms in the wind.
The tail looks natural with the extra detail of the light too. This puts you
into the Whelen triple output strobe power supply that fits great just about
anywhere in the rear fuse. This gets you the brightest flash.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: spanwise striping on wings |
> Andy wrote:
>
> >
> > Has anybody ever heard of anyone having aerodynamic problems from
painting
> > spanwise stripes on their wings, or spanwise trim tape.
N250DS, an RV-4 has three span-wise strip lines in the first 8 inches or so
of chord. They are clear-coated to the back of the last strip so there is
only one "ridge". I can detect no difference in stall speed from Van's
data.
Cruise speed also seems to be "normal" for a 160HP constant speed.
Dick Sipp
N250DS 220 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Preventing iced up fuel vent |
>An RV pilot told me that he was flying along in his -4 and noticed
that the fuel tank was 'bulging' out. I know, it sounds unbelievable but it
was caused by bugs clogging the vent line. This guy actually noticed the
skin bulge out. <
Are,
Wouldn't that be collapsed - not bulging?
Ed Holyoke
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Spar Reinforce Plate ????? |
Jack,
You will find them cut to exact size in bag 419. You only have to radius
them and drill the holes.
Are
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jack Textor
Sent: August 6, 2001 12:53 PM
Subject: RV-List: Spar Reinforce Plate ?????
Morning friends,
Just getting back to building after returning from spending too many $$$
at OSH. Working on RV8 aileron. Are the A408's (spar reinforcement
plates) supplied or do I need to fashion them from stock provided? Just
can't seem to locate them.
Thanks,
Jack
RV8, wings
Good to meet many at OSH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Vent lines (was preventing iced up fuel vent) |
I deviated from Van's plans for this reason. Every reference book I found
on aircraft fuel systems called for a minimum fuel vent size of 3/8" (Van
calls for 1/4"). On my RV-8A I transition from 1/4" to 3/8" for the last
12" of vent line. The line extends about an inch below the fuselage and is
terminated with a 45 degree bevel cut facing into the wind. The larger tube
allows for attaching a screen on the bevel cut (standard fine mesh aluminum
screen held on with JB weld). The screen keeps out the bugs and the 3/8
inch line is less susceptible to ice clogging.
Carl Froehlich (RV-8A, wings went on this weekend!!!)
Vienna, VA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 1:29 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Preventing iced up fuel vent
>
> >An RV pilot told me that he was flying along in his -4 and noticed
> that the fuel tank was 'bulging' out. I know, it sounds unbelievable but
it
> was caused by bugs clogging the vent line. This guy actually noticed the
> skin bulge out. <
>
> Are,
> Wouldn't that be collapsed - not bulging?
>
> Ed Holyoke
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Preventing iced up fuel vent |
You're right Ed. Was a bit too late last night I guess... :)
Are
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke
Sent: August 6, 2001 1:30 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Preventing iced up fuel vent
>An RV pilot told me that he was flying along in his -4 and noticed
that the fuel tank was 'bulging' out. I know, it sounds unbelievable but it
was caused by bugs clogging the vent line. This guy actually noticed the
skin bulge out. <
Are,
Wouldn't that be collapsed - not bulging?
Ed Holyoke
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EI gauge prices |
Be careful to compare apples and apples. I believe that (and I could be
wrong, but that would be the 1st time this year), that Van's includes
probes in the price and Spruce doesn't even list them. If you find out
different, I would like to know, as I intend to use it too.
Barry Pote RV9a fuselage
Are Barstad wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone located the cheapest place to buy EI gauges? I like to order the
> FL-2C fuel gauge for the capacitive sender today and just assumed that Van's
> was cheapest (as I find them usually to be). But they charge quite a bit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Marvel Carburetor question |
Hey you carburetor gurus,
I have a grand total of 2 (count 'em, two!) hours taxi testing my RV-6A with
O-320 D1A Aero Sport engine. Before the first start, I activated the
electric fuel pump, saw fuel pressure register 6+ psi on the gauge and heard
the "clicks" that the Facet pump makes diminish from "click click click
click" to "click ....... click ...... click .....click." This indicated to
me that the system was pressurized and the float, needle and valve in the
carburetor was holding the pressure.
Now when I run the pump before start, the pump keeps clicking, pressure is
below 2 psi and after a while I see fuel dripping out of the drain hole that
I thoughtfully drilled in the bottom of the air filter box.
From my vast experience with leaky AMAL and BING carburetors on my
motorcycles, this indicates to me that the needle valve in the carburetor
body is stuck open with a piece of crud (to use the engineering term.) On
the other hand, the fellows at the airport say that they have seen this with
Marvel carburetors and all it indicates is that the electric boost pump is
pumping fuel so vigorously that it is overcoming the float, pushing it down
into the carburetor and forcing fuel into the carburetor, which then
overflows.
What say you? Do I have to disassemble the carburetor to clean the float,
needle valve assembly? If it is plugged can the needle valve be purged with
a puff of compressed air?
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
Good point Barry. They might have included the CAP sender kit.
I will be using EI gauges for all engine functions including the Super Clock
with altitude alert. I was entertaining the VM-1000 or a Sierra system but
hate to be grounded if I lose only one of the functions and have to send the
entire unit away for who knows how long.
I noticed that Aircraft Spruce is cheapest and Van's only approx. $10 more
per gauge (except the cap fuel gauge). This is ok though - I'd rather order
from Van's then since I usually need other things from them and can save on
shipping and customs charges into Canada.
I like to get the fuel gauge now - just in case something happens with the
company and since this is so far the only gauge that will work with my
senders.
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of barry pote
Sent: August 6, 2001 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: EI gauge prices
Be careful to compare apples and apples. I believe that (and I could be
wrong, but that would be the 1st time this year), that Van's includes
probes in the price and Spruce doesn't even list them. If you find out
different, I would like to know, as I intend to use it too.
Barry Pote RV9a fuselage
Are Barstad wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone located the cheapest place to buy EI gauges? I like to order
the
> FL-2C fuel gauge for the capacitive sender today and just assumed that
Van's
> was cheapest (as I find them usually to be). But they charge quite a bit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Carburetor question |
Turn off the pump!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:34 AM
Subject: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
Hey you carburetor gurus,
I have a grand total of 2 (count 'em, two!) hours taxi testing my RV-6A with
O-320 D1A Aero Sport engine. Before the first start, I activated the
electric fuel pump, saw fuel pressure register 6+ psi on the gauge and heard
the "clicks" that the Facet pump makes diminish from "click click click
click" to "click ....... click ...... click .....click." This indicated to
me that the system was pressurized and the float, needle and valve in the
carburetor was holding the pressure.
Now when I run the pump before start, the pump keeps clicking, pressure is
below 2 psi and after a while I see fuel dripping out of the drain hole that
I thoughtfully drilled in the bottom of the air filter box.
>From my vast experience with leaky AMAL and BING carburetors on my
motorcycles, this indicates to me that the needle valve in the carburetor
body is stuck open with a piece of crud (to use the engineering term.) On
the other hand, the fellows at the airport say that they have seen this with
Marvel carburetors and all it indicates is that the electric boost pump is
pumping fuel so vigorously that it is overcoming the float, pushing it down
into the carburetor and forcing fuel into the carburetor, which then
overflows.
What say you? Do I have to disassemble the carburetor to clean the float,
needle valve assembly? If it is plugged can the needle valve be purged with
a puff of compressed air?
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EI gauge prices |
Barry: You are correct about the probes. I have all Van's gauges including
CHT & EGT which came with all 8 probes and an EI Switch for selecting
cylinders which ran me $539.96 last September.
I am an analog guy other than my Garmin 430 & UPS SL-30 radios.
Tom
in Ohio (Hanging Exhaust)
----- Original Message -----
From: barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: EI gauge prices
>
> Be careful to compare apples and apples. I believe that (and I could be
> wrong, but that would be the 1st time this year), that Van's includes
> probes in the price and Spruce doesn't even list them. If you find out
> different, I would like to know, as I intend to use it too.
>
> Barry Pote RV9a fuselage
>
> Are Barstad wrote:
> >
> >
> > Has anyone located the cheapest place to buy EI gauges? I like to order
the
> > FL-2C fuel gauge for the capacitive sender today and just assumed that
Van's
> > was cheapest (as I find them usually to be). But they charge quite a bit
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rozy Arno" <rozy26(at)excelonline.com> |
| Subject: | -6 wing kit, must sell |
Help! Must sell my RV-6 wing kit. It's not pre-punched , Lightning holes
are cut, basic clean up completed. I have all drawings, hardware, wing
tips ,Phlogiston spars(they look great!). Did I mention MUST SELL!!!!
Portland OR. area E-mail to rozy26(at)excelonline.com or call Tom @
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Test fitting of wings |
Okay, I KNOW this has happened to others. I hope you have some suggestions.
I am also going to call Van's in just a bit to see what they say.
When test fitting my wings yesterday, I found that the rear spar just misses
the rear spar attach on the fuselage on both sides. At least I'm consistent!
It is off foreward by just about the width of the plate on the rear spar. I
don't have my plans with me but if you are familiar with the 4/6 rear spar,
it has two bars on the top and bottom of the spar and then a plate riveted
on to these bars. The bars strike the forward most attach ... fork... for
want of a better word, the plate lines up perfectly just aft of the forward
most fork on the fuselage attach point for the rear spar. I hope that makes
sense. So basically, I off by about 1/8 inch forward, I guess.
If any of this makes sense, I would appreciate any ideas from the peanut
gallery. I am the daisy for today. And as I said, I will also be calling
Van's.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 Finishing Kit
Wing mounting hell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com> |
| Subject: | Drill Size Question |
More info.
First, thanks to all who sent advice. There are a couple of suggestions I
intend to try.
But, let me tell you what I found yesterday!
I carefully drilled some holes in 1/8" aircraft aluminum. Well lubricated,
in a drill press. All holes appear perfectly round. Holes were drilled
with 2 different #12 bits (came in the same package from Avery) and a 3/16"
drill bit.
After drilling, I took 5 different AN3 bolts to see if any / all would fit
in the holes.
Results.
One of the #12 bits drilled holes smaller than the 3/16" bit. And the
other #12 bit drilled a hole larger than the 3/16" bit. There is obviously
a difference in the two #12's. The bit that was drilling the smaller hole
was the one I had been using and could not understand why none of the AN3
bolts would fit.
I am mic'ing the bits today and will publish the results. I also plan to
call Averys .... they are great folks and I am sure will help.
I may invest in some reamers for AN3, AN4, and AN5 size holes. This ordeal
has been very frustrating for me. When a bit is stamped #12, you expect it
to be .1890 inches.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
| Subject: | Andair gascolator |
SNIP Compared to the Andair gascolator SNIP
Speaking of Andair gascolators, which I think are very nice units, my buddy
uncovered a minor problem with his a couple weeks ago. His unit is new. He
just bought it about a month ago.
He was checking the internal screen for debris and found a bit of gook
INSIDE the filter. It seemed to be some type of glue. On inspection, he
found more of it around the top of the unit. He used a bent piece of safety
wire and carefully scraped out more of it. The residue, whatever it is, was
stuck around the top of the unit, on the INSIDE, near the threaded
connection. He said it was visible by using a small flashlight and looking
through the screen.
We spoke to the Andair people at Oshkosh. They seemed aware of the problem.
Apparently when the screen is pressed between the housing parts there is a
possibility of some of the sealant (or whatever it is) oozing out.
I don't know if this could cause anybody any problems or not.... but nobody
wants any loose bits of stuff in their fuel system.
If the Andair folks are lurking maybe they can comment further.
Thanks,
Vince
HRII builder who would still use the Andair regardless... it's a nice piece
of work.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Drill Size Question |
Please keep in mind that a bit that is not perfectly straight will cause a
slightly larger hole.
Are
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ellis H Mcgaughy
Sent: August 6, 2001 8:29 AM
Subject: RV-List: Drill Size Question
More info.
First, thanks to all who sent advice. There are a couple of suggestions I
intend to try.
But, let me tell you what I found yesterday!
I carefully drilled some holes in 1/8" aircraft aluminum. Well lubricated,
in a drill press. All holes appear perfectly round. Holes were drilled
with 2 different #12 bits (came in the same package from Avery) and a 3/16"
drill bit.
After drilling, I took 5 different AN3 bolts to see if any / all would fit
in the holes.
Results.
One of the #12 bits drilled holes smaller than the 3/16" bit. And the
other #12 bit drilled a hole larger than the 3/16" bit. There is obviously
a difference in the two #12's. The bit that was drilling the smaller hole
was the one I had been using and could not understand why none of the AN3
bolts would fit.
I am mic'ing the bits today and will publish the results. I also plan to
call Averys .... they are great folks and I am sure will help.
I may invest in some reamers for AN3, AN4, and AN5 size holes. This ordeal
has been very frustrating for me. When a bit is stamped #12, you expect it
to be .1890 inches.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill Size Question |
Ellis, everyone working on a plane should have one of those stainless
steel drill bit size templates. The shaft of the drill bit usually fits
snug in the correctly numbered hole. How do they both fit? I routinely
check bits before using.
Barry Pote RV9a fuselage
Ellis H Mcgaughy wrote:
>
>
> One of the #12 bits drilled holes smaller than the 3/16" bit. And the
> other #12 bit drilled a hole larger than the 3/16" bit. There is obviously
> a difference in the two #12's. The bit that was drilling the smaller hole
> was the one I had been using and could not understand why none of the AN3
> bolts would fit.
>
> I am mic'ing the bits today and will publish the results. I also plan to
> call Averys .... they are great folks and I am sure will help.
>
> I may invest in some reamers for AN3, AN4, and AN5 size holes. This ordeal
> has been very frustrating for me. When a bit is stamped #12, you expect it
> to be .1890 inches.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Marvel Carburetor question |
Cy,
OK, I'll turn off the pump. That's the advice the airport guys are giving
me. They say just to run the engine on the engine driven pump.
But why did it hold 6 psi at first and now doesn't get much above 2 psi
before starting to leak? ... And isn't that a problem?
Steve (still puzzled)
-----Original Message-----
From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley(at)qcbc.org]
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
Turn off the pump!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:34 AM
Subject: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
Hey you carburetor gurus,
I have a grand total of 2 (count 'em, two!) hours taxi testing my RV-6A with
O-320 D1A Aero Sport engine. Before the first start, I activated the
electric fuel pump, saw fuel pressure register 6+ psi on the gauge and heard
the "clicks" that the Facet pump makes diminish from "click click click
click" to "click ....... click ...... click .....click." This indicated to
me that the system was pressurized and the float, needle and valve in the
carburetor was holding the pressure.
Now when I run the pump before start, the pump keeps clicking, pressure is
below 2 psi and after a while I see fuel dripping out of the drain hole that
I thoughtfully drilled in the bottom of the air filter box.
>From my vast experience with leaky AMAL and BING carburetors on my
motorcycles, this indicates to me that the needle valve in the carburetor
body is stuck open with a piece of crud (to use the engineering term.) On
the other hand, the fellows at the airport say that they have seen this with
Marvel carburetors and all it indicates is that the electric boost pump is
pumping fuel so vigorously that it is overcoming the float, pushing it down
into the carburetor and forcing fuel into the carburetor, which then
overflows.
What say you? Do I have to disassemble the carburetor to clean the float,
needle valve assembly? If it is plugged can the needle valve be purged with
a puff of compressed air?
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Gray <bruce.gray(at)snet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill Size Question |
It amuses me that we spend so much of our money on electronic gadgets for our toys
but
skip over the fundamentals. I tell every new builder who asks about drills to go
to the
nearest industrial supply house (Granger, MSC, whatever) and buy a top line set
of USA
made titanium coated fractional and numbered drill sets. They won't be cheap (mine
cost
about $300) but they drill the right size hole.
Bruce
Glasair III
Ellis H Mcgaughy wrote:
>
> I am mic'ing the bits today and will publish the results. I also plan to
> call Averys .... they are great folks and I am sure will help.
>
> I may invest in some reamers for AN3, AN4, and AN5 size holes. This ordeal
> has been very frustrating for me. When a bit is stamped #12, you expect it
> to be .1890 inches.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com> |
| Subject: | Drill Size Question |
More info.
First, thanks to all who sent advice. There are a couple of suggestions I
intend to try.
But, let me tell you what I found yesterday!
I carefully drilled some holes in 1/8" aircraft aluminum. Well lubricated,
in a drill press. All holes appear perfectly round. Holes were drilled
with 2 different #12 bits (came in the same package from Avery) and a 3/16"
drill bit.
After drilling, I took 5 different AN3 bolts to see if any / all would fit
in the holes.
Results.
One of the #12 bits drilled holes smaller than the 3/16" bit. And the
other #12 bit drilled a hole larger than the 3/16" bit. There is obviously
a difference in the two #12's. The bit that was drilling the smaller hole
was the one I had been using and could not understand why none of the AN3
bolts would fit.
I am mic'ing the bits today and will publish the results. I also plan to
call Averys .... they are great folks and I am sure will help.
I may invest in some reamers for AN3, AN4, and AN5 size holes. This ordeal
has been very frustrating for me. When a bit is stamped #12, you expect it
to be .1890 inches.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Carburetor question |
Have you checked to see where the leak is? It might not be the carb but a
loose fitting or the top of the engine pump might be loose. Does your fuel
pressure fluctuate on the fuel pressure gage when the engine is running? If
so you have a leak before the engine pump and are sucking air at the leak.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:25 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
Cy,
OK, I'll turn off the pump. That's the advice the airport guys are giving
me. They say just to run the engine on the engine driven pump.
But why did it hold 6 psi at first and now doesn't get much above 2 psi
before starting to leak? ... And isn't that a problem?
Steve (still puzzled)
-----Original Message-----
From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley(at)qcbc.org]
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
Turn off the pump!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:34 AM
Subject: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
Hey you carburetor gurus,
I have a grand total of 2 (count 'em, two!) hours taxi testing my RV-6A with
O-320 D1A Aero Sport engine. Before the first start, I activated the
electric fuel pump, saw fuel pressure register 6+ psi on the gauge and heard
the "clicks" that the Facet pump makes diminish from "click click click
click" to "click ....... click ...... click .....click." This indicated to
me that the system was pressurized and the float, needle and valve in the
carburetor was holding the pressure.
Now when I run the pump before start, the pump keeps clicking, pressure is
below 2 psi and after a while I see fuel dripping out of the drain hole that
I thoughtfully drilled in the bottom of the air filter box.
>From my vast experience with leaky AMAL and BING carburetors on my
motorcycles, this indicates to me that the needle valve in the carburetor
body is stuck open with a piece of crud (to use the engineering term.) On
the other hand, the fellows at the airport say that they have seen this with
Marvel carburetors and all it indicates is that the electric boost pump is
pumping fuel so vigorously that it is overcoming the float, pushing it down
into the carburetor and forcing fuel into the carburetor, which then
overflows.
What say you? Do I have to disassemble the carburetor to clean the float,
needle valve assembly? If it is plugged can the needle valve be purged with
a puff of compressed air?
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Carburetor question |
Steve, I have the same carb MA-4SPA. I always use the boost pump on takeoff,
it holds 6 psi then drops to 4 when turned off and operating on engine driven
pump. The leaking does not sound good, I think I would want to know why the
carb wont hold the pressure. Why have a boost pump if you cant use it?
Kevin -9A O-320
Flying 70 hours
> Cy,
>
> OK, I'll turn off the pump. That's the advice the airport guys are giving
> me. They say just to run the engine on the engine driven pump.
>
> But why did it hold 6 psi at first and now doesn't get much above 2 psi
> before starting to leak? ... And isn't that a problem?
>
> Steve (still puzzled)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley(at)qcbc.org]
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:27 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
>
>
>
> Turn off the pump!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
> To: "Rv-List (E-mail)"
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:34 AM
> Subject: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
>
>
>
> Hey you carburetor gurus,
>
> I have a grand total of 2 (count 'em, two!) hours taxi testing my RV-6A
with
> O-320 D1A Aero Sport engine. Before the first start, I activated the
> electric fuel pump, saw fuel pressure register 6+ psi on the gauge and
heard
> the "clicks" that the Facet pump makes diminish from "click click click
> click" to "click ....... click ...... click .....click." This indicated to
> me that the system was pressurized and the float, needle and valve in the
> carburetor was holding the pressure.
>
> Now when I run the pump before start, the pump keeps clicking, pressure is
> below 2 psi and after a while I see fuel dripping out of the drain hole
that
> I thoughtfully drilled in the bottom of the air filter box.
>
> >From my vast experience with leaky AMAL and BING carburetors on my
> motorcycles, this indicates to me that the needle valve in the carburetor
> body is stuck open with a piece of crud (to use the engineering term.) On
> the other hand, the fellows at the airport say that they have seen this
with
> Marvel carburetors and all it indicates is that the electric boost pump is
> pumping fuel so vigorously that it is overcoming the float, pushing it down
> into the carburetor and forcing fuel into the carburetor, which then
> overflows.
>
> What say you? Do I have to disassemble the carburetor to clean the float,
> needle valve assembly? If it is plugged can the needle valve be purged with
> a puff of compressed air?
>
> Steve Soule
> Huntington, Vermont
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Carburetor question |
One more thought, did you flush out your tanks? I put 15 gallons of avgas in
each tank and pumped it out through the gascolator with the boost pump. I
wound up with alot of little pieces of proseal in the screen after doing
this.
Kevin
> Cy,
> >
> > OK, I'll turn off the pump. That's the advice the
> > airport guys are giving
> > me. They say just to run the engine on the engine
> > driven pump.
> >
> > But why did it hold 6 psi at first and now doesn't
> > get much above 2 psi
> > before starting to leak? ... And isn't that a
> > problem?
> >
> > Steve (still puzzled)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley(at)qcbc.org]
> > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:27 AM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Turn off the pump!
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
> > To: "Rv-List (E-mail)"
> > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:34 AM
> > Subject: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hey you carburetor gurus,
> >
> > I have a grand total of 2 (count 'em, two!) hours
> > taxi testing my RV-6A with
> > O-320 D1A Aero Sport engine. Before the first start,
> > I activated the
> > electric fuel pump, saw fuel pressure register 6+
> > psi on the gauge and heard
> > the "clicks" that the Facet pump makes diminish from
> > "click click click
> > click" to "click ....... click ...... click
> > .....click." This indicated to
> > me that the system was pressurized and the float,
> > needle and valve in the
> > carburetor was holding the pressure.
> >
> > Now when I run the pump before start, the pump keeps
> > clicking, pressure is
> > below 2 psi and after a while I see fuel dripping
> > out of the drain hole that
> > I thoughtfully drilled in the bottom of the air
> > filter box.
> >
> > >From my vast experience with leaky AMAL and BING
> > carburetors on my
> > motorcycles, this indicates to me that the needle
> > valve in the carburetor
> > body is stuck open with a piece of crud (to use the
> > engineering term.) On
> > the other hand, the fellows at the airport say that
> > they have seen this with
> > Marvel carburetors and all it indicates is that the
> > electric boost pump is
> > pumping fuel so vigorously that it is overcoming the
> > float, pushing it down
> > into the carburetor and forcing fuel into the
> > carburetor, which then
> > overflows.
> >
> > What say you? Do I have to disassemble the
> > carburetor to clean the float,
> > needle valve assembly? If it is plugged can the
> > needle valve be purged with
> > a puff of compressed air?
> >
> > Steve Soule
> > Huntington, Vermont
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | spanwise striping |
The reason I asked about this has to do with the installing of VGs. The MicroAero
kit allows for temporary installation with double stick carpet tape and then
permanent intallation with epoxy. They are positioned on the wing by means of
a 3"
wide piece of vinyl tape which has the VG positions cut out and self sticks to
the
wing approximately 3" aft of the leading edge.
Leaving this template strip on would sure save a lot of time when going from
temporary to permanent installation, especially since I had to cut up and modify
the
template strip into lots of small pieces because MicroAero's dimensions were for
an
RV-4, not a 6 which has a shorter wing.
Anyway, I had a lot of conflicting advice on whether or not to fly with the tape
on.
(which had a definite lip as you could feel if you ran a finger across it)
Some said, with our non-laminar flow wings, it makes no difference and just go
fly
it with the tape. Scott at Van's shared this opinion too.
Some, thinking that I was just painting my wings said to make sure there is a thick
clear coat over the spanwise stripes to eliminate any "lip" in the paint layers,
and
some of those saying that the only negative affect otherwise would be slightly
reduced cruise speed.
MicroAerodynamics on the other hand said, definitely NOT to fly with the tape on
the
wing. It will cause noticeable control problems which could become quite serious.
Apparently the "bump" of the tape will trip the airflow causing it to go turbulent
long before it it supposed to. It's more of a problem on a true laminar flow wing,
but still an issue for us as well.
Bottom line, the tapes coming off, and I'd be very carefull about painting any
spanwise stripes near the leading edge.
Hope to fly the VGs tomorrow. I'll post the results.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Marvel Carburetor question |
The fuel is leaking from the carburetor itself into the airbox. All the
fittings from the wings to the carburetor are clean and dry. I am sure it is
an overflow not a leak.
Glenn Williams describes what I believe to be normal. With the engine off,
the Facet boost pump should pressurize the system and I should see 6 psi on
the pressure gauge. In fact, I did on the first start. Thereafter with the
engine off, the Facet pump gives me 2+ psi and fuel running out of the
airbox.
The engine starts and runs fine without the Facet pump, but fuel pressure is
never much higher than 2 psi now.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley(at)qcbc.org]
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
Have you checked to see where the leak is? It might not be the carb but a
loose fitting or the top of the engine pump might be loose. Does your fuel
pressure fluctuate on the fuel pressure gage when the engine is running? If
so you have a leak before the engine pump and are sucking air at the leak.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:25 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
Cy,
OK, I'll turn off the pump. That's the advice the airport guys are giving
me. They say just to run the engine on the engine driven pump.
But why did it hold 6 psi at first and now doesn't get much above 2 psi
before starting to leak? ... And isn't that a problem?
Steve (still puzzled)
-----Original Message-----
From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley(at)qcbc.org]
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
Turn off the pump!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:34 AM
Subject: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
Hey you carburetor gurus,
I have a grand total of 2 (count 'em, two!) hours taxi testing my RV-6A with
O-320 D1A Aero Sport engine. Before the first start, I activated the
electric fuel pump, saw fuel pressure register 6+ psi on the gauge and heard
the "clicks" that the Facet pump makes diminish from "click click click
click" to "click ....... click ...... click .....click." This indicated to
me that the system was pressurized and the float, needle and valve in the
carburetor was holding the pressure.
Now when I run the pump before start, the pump keeps clicking, pressure is
below 2 psi and after a while I see fuel dripping out of the drain hole that
I thoughtfully drilled in the bottom of the air filter box.
>From my vast experience with leaky AMAL and BING carburetors on my
motorcycles, this indicates to me that the needle valve in the carburetor
body is stuck open with a piece of crud (to use the engineering term.) On
the other hand, the fellows at the airport say that they have seen this with
Marvel carburetors and all it indicates is that the electric boost pump is
pumping fuel so vigorously that it is overcoming the float, pushing it down
into the carburetor and forcing fuel into the carburetor, which then
overflows.
What say you? Do I have to disassemble the carburetor to clean the float,
needle valve assembly? If it is plugged can the needle valve be purged with
a puff of compressed air?
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com> |
| Subject: | Drill Size Question |
The data proves my theory that I have a "bad" #12 drill bit.
Drill Bit stamp / size Micrometer Reading
(as seen on bit)
1. #12 0.1893 (this is the good #12 bit)
2. 3/16 0.1877
3. #12 0.1850 (this is the bad #12 bit)
No wonder the AN3 bolts wouldn't fit.
End of story
Learning: Just because a drill bit is stamped, doesn't mean it is
accurately sized. This was not some cheap bit I picked up from a flea
market. This bit was purchased from Avery.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Carburetor question |
In a message dated 08/06/2001 11:59:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
willig10(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< Your pump should
bring the fuel system pressure up to 6 psi and then
you should not hear any more clicking. >>
For what it's worth, my Facet pump clicks continuously when it's on, but the
"note" changes whenever the pressure builds up, or when the primer solenoid
is opened, for instance. Never have I heard it stop running when it is
switched on, and it is not pouring fuel out of the FAB box, either!
My fuel pressures in most flight regimes run 4 psi with engine pump alone,
and 5 psi with the series-plumbed Facet also running. These are as-read from
my Grand Rapids engine monitor and transducer. You mileage may vary.
If my Facet is supposed to quit running once the system is pressurized, I
want to know!
Bill Boyd
RV-6A O-320 160 hp Marvel carb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Carburetor question |
Another thing you might check since it is a new plane is the finger screen
in the carb inlet. It can be removed, cleaned, and replaced from the
outside of the carb. If you don't have a manual for your carb, go to...
http://www.precisionairmotive.com/ where they have support for your carb.
They used to have a manual you can down load but I could not find it today
when I looked.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:25 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
Cy,
OK, I'll turn off the pump. That's the advice the airport guys are giving
me. They say just to run the engine on the engine driven pump.
But why did it hold 6 psi at first and now doesn't get much above 2 psi
before starting to leak? ... And isn't that a problem?
Steve (still puzzled)
-----Original Message-----
From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley(at)qcbc.org]
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
Turn off the pump!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:34 AM
Subject: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
Hey you carburetor gurus,
I have a grand total of 2 (count 'em, two!) hours taxi testing my RV-6A with
O-320 D1A Aero Sport engine. Before the first start, I activated the
electric fuel pump, saw fuel pressure register 6+ psi on the gauge and heard
the "clicks" that the Facet pump makes diminish from "click click click
click" to "click ....... click ...... click .....click." This indicated to
me that the system was pressurized and the float, needle and valve in the
carburetor was holding the pressure.
Now when I run the pump before start, the pump keeps clicking, pressure is
below 2 psi and after a while I see fuel dripping out of the drain hole that
I thoughtfully drilled in the bottom of the air filter box.
>From my vast experience with leaky AMAL and BING carburetors on my
motorcycles, this indicates to me that the needle valve in the carburetor
body is stuck open with a piece of crud (to use the engineering term.) On
the other hand, the fellows at the airport say that they have seen this with
Marvel carburetors and all it indicates is that the electric boost pump is
pumping fuel so vigorously that it is overcoming the float, pushing it down
into the carburetor and forcing fuel into the carburetor, which then
overflows.
What say you? Do I have to disassemble the carburetor to clean the float,
needle valve assembly? If it is plugged can the needle valve be purged with
a puff of compressed air?
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | RV-4 Gear Leg Question... |
Hello Fellow RVr's,
Back working on the RV-4 this weekend after a rather long break. I
bolted the engine mount on yesterday and then installed the gear legs.
I have the late-model, pre-drilled mount/leg variety from Van's.
I have a question about the gear leg alignment. I haven't actually
measured yet, but it looks like I have a few degrees of toe-OUT on each
of the gear legs. I would assume that optimally I should have toe-IN.
Is it possible that I installed the gear legs backwards (swapped left
and right)? The pre-drilled bolt holes lined up perfectly with the
current arrangement, so I didn't give it a second thought. It seemed to
me that the probability of the holes being perfectly aligned and the
same on the left and right side was nearly impossible. Any thought's
or experience on this?
Thanks for the help,
Matt Dralle
RV-4 Builder
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6160hp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | EAA 486 7th Annual RV Forum |
2001 Northeast RV Forum
(for Builders, Pilots and Enthusiasts)
Oswego County Airport, Fulton, New York (KFZY)
Saturday, September 15, 2001, with evening banquet included.
LOTS of good door prizes been donated from prime RV building suppliers/vendors
too.
DON'T forget our OSHKOSH sized discounts. Bring your lists and we fax in your
order that day....we get equally sizeable discounts as in OSHKOSH...that savings
alone could cover the event costs.
(Also Including Informal Friday evening and Sunday morning activities)
Seventh ANNUAL RV Builders' Forum
Mike Seager, RV instructor, will give RV instruction rides, in Factory RV6
All day Friday, Saturday and Sunday as weather permits.
(spaces limited, always sold out, for your spot email RV6160HP(at)aol.com with RV
INSTRUCTION in subject line, see other email re: RV INSTRUCTION )
For other updates, save link & watch web site at:
http://www.web-flight.com/486/index.html
OUR CONTINUED SUCCESS IN RV FORUMS STILL FEATURES:
Shared RV pleasure rides - weather, pilots, and airplanes permitting.
Lectures/presentations - to cover a broad range of interesting subjects.
Low Registration Fee of: $35 ($40 at the door) covers Saturday's Forums s: breakfast,
lunch, and supper).
SCHEDULE OF ACTIVITIES:
Friday night - Sept. 14, there will be an informal welcome weenie roast at the
hangar for arriving attendees.
Saturday - all day Sept 15, we will have the full day of interesting seminars and
activities. (meals included.) Saturday evening hanger banquet and related
speaker included.
Sunday - for those who can stay over (optional), there will be a breakfast in the
hangar followed by a group fly-out (for those with planes) to Lake Placid,
NY, or some other interesting destination TBD.
Note: Registration fee for RV pilots with RV airplanes is only $1.
Lodging: Quality Inn: 315-593-2444, Fulton Motor Lodge: 315- 598-6100. (See AOPA
Directory for more.)
Ground Transportation: Rides to/from the local motels will be provided for Free.
Oswego County Airport: (KFZY) is uncontrolled and can have no-radio traffic in
the pattern.
Traffic pattern is 1300' msl. Please use normal pattern/radio procedures and be
careful! 100LL is available.
See airport directories and approach plates - we have a new ILS precision approach
(freq. 110.9).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Carburetor question |
Really good idea!
----- Original Message -----
From: <Im7shannon(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
One more thought, did you flush out your tanks? I put 15 gallons of avgas in
each tank and pumped it out through the gascolator with the boost pump. I
wound up with alot of little pieces of proseal in the screen after doing
this.
Kevin
> Cy,
> >
> > OK, I'll turn off the pump. That's the advice the
> > airport guys are giving
> > me. They say just to run the engine on the engine
> > driven pump.
> >
> > But why did it hold 6 psi at first and now doesn't
> > get much above 2 psi
> > before starting to leak? ... And isn't that a
> > problem?
> >
> > Steve (still puzzled)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley(at)qcbc.org]
> > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:27 AM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Turn off the pump!
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
> > To: "Rv-List (E-mail)"
> > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:34 AM
> > Subject: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hey you carburetor gurus,
> >
> > I have a grand total of 2 (count 'em, two!) hours
> > taxi testing my RV-6A with
> > O-320 D1A Aero Sport engine. Before the first start,
> > I activated the
> > electric fuel pump, saw fuel pressure register 6+
> > psi on the gauge and heard
> > the "clicks" that the Facet pump makes diminish from
> > "click click click
> > click" to "click ....... click ...... click
> > .....click." This indicated to
> > me that the system was pressurized and the float,
> > needle and valve in the
> > carburetor was holding the pressure.
> >
> > Now when I run the pump before start, the pump keeps
> > clicking, pressure is
> > below 2 psi and after a while I see fuel dripping
> > out of the drain hole that
> > I thoughtfully drilled in the bottom of the air
> > filter box.
> >
> > >From my vast experience with leaky AMAL and BING
> > carburetors on my
> > motorcycles, this indicates to me that the needle
> > valve in the carburetor
> > body is stuck open with a piece of crud (to use the
> > engineering term.) On
> > the other hand, the fellows at the airport say that
> > they have seen this with
> > Marvel carburetors and all it indicates is that the
> > electric boost pump is
> > pumping fuel so vigorously that it is overcoming the
> > float, pushing it down
> > into the carburetor and forcing fuel into the
> > carburetor, which then
> > overflows.
> >
> > What say you? Do I have to disassemble the
> > carburetor to clean the float,
> > needle valve assembly? If it is plugged can the
> > needle valve be purged with
> > a puff of compressed air?
> >
> > Steve Soule
> > Huntington, Vermont
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Marvel Carburetor question |
No, but I did check the gascolator and found that it was clean. I'll check
again tonight.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Im7shannon(at)aol.com [mailto:Im7shannon(at)aol.com]
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
One more thought, did you flush out your tanks? I put 15 gallons of avgas in
each tank and pumped it out through the gascolator with the boost pump. I
wound up with alot of little pieces of proseal in the screen after doing
this.
Kevin
> Cy,
> >
> > OK, I'll turn off the pump. That's the advice the
> > airport guys are giving
> > me. They say just to run the engine on the engine
> > driven pump.
> >
> > But why did it hold 6 psi at first and now doesn't
> > get much above 2 psi
> > before starting to leak? ... And isn't that a
> > problem?
> >
> > Steve (still puzzled)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley(at)qcbc.org]
> > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:27 AM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Turn off the pump!
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
> > To: "Rv-List (E-mail)"
> > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:34 AM
> > Subject: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hey you carburetor gurus,
> >
> > I have a grand total of 2 (count 'em, two!) hours
> > taxi testing my RV-6A with
> > O-320 D1A Aero Sport engine. Before the first start,
> > I activated the
> > electric fuel pump, saw fuel pressure register 6+
> > psi on the gauge and heard
> > the "clicks" that the Facet pump makes diminish from
> > "click click click
> > click" to "click ....... click ...... click
> > .....click." This indicated to
> > me that the system was pressurized and the float,
> > needle and valve in the
> > carburetor was holding the pressure.
> >
> > Now when I run the pump before start, the pump keeps
> > clicking, pressure is
> > below 2 psi and after a while I see fuel dripping
> > out of the drain hole that
> > I thoughtfully drilled in the bottom of the air
> > filter box.
> >
> > >From my vast experience with leaky AMAL and BING
> > carburetors on my
> > motorcycles, this indicates to me that the needle
> > valve in the carburetor
> > body is stuck open with a piece of crud (to use the
> > engineering term.) On
> > the other hand, the fellows at the airport say that
> > they have seen this with
> > Marvel carburetors and all it indicates is that the
> > electric boost pump is
> > pumping fuel so vigorously that it is overcoming the
> > float, pushing it down
> > into the carburetor and forcing fuel into the
> > carburetor, which then
> > overflows.
> >
> > What say you? Do I have to disassemble the
> > carburetor to clean the float,
> > needle valve assembly? If it is plugged can the
> > needle valve be purged with
> > a puff of compressed air?
> >
> > Steve Soule
> > Huntington, Vermont
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
I have just become aware of this product <http://www.smartplugs.com> and
wonder if anyone on the RV-List has intimate knowledge of them (I don't mean
that you've slept with them, I mean that you or someone you know well has
actually tried them in a light aircraft ;
) ). It sounds plausible but crazy
ideas often have the "slight ring of truth" in them.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Carburetor question |
Hi Steve:
This is not normal and the problem has to be corrected before you fly it, I
would call Bart and run it by him. You will be using the boost pump during
take-off and landing and you sure don't want it leaking fuel then.You will
recall Greg's accident were the engine quit when he turned the boost pump
on.
This is typical of most engine problems, there usually is a warning such as
this and that is our opportunity to correct the problem before it gets us
into trouble.
I would try and keep your ground running down as much as possible so you
don't glaze those cylinders.
As always Steve there is no criticism in this post safety is my only
concern. You are about to enter into the world of RV flying a high that will
be with you the rest of your life.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
>
> Cy,
>
> OK, I'll turn off the pump. That's the advice the airport guys are giving
> me. They say just to run the engine on the engine driven pump.
>
> But why did it hold 6 psi at first and now doesn't get much above 2 psi
> before starting to leak? ... And isn't that a problem?
>
> Steve (still puzzled)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley(at)qcbc.org]
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:27 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
>
>
> Turn off the pump!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
> To: "Rv-List (E-mail)"
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:34 AM
> Subject: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
>
>
> Hey you carburetor gurus,
>
> I have a grand total of 2 (count 'em, two!) hours taxi testing my RV-6A
with
> O-320 D1A Aero Sport engine. Before the first start, I activated the
> electric fuel pump, saw fuel pressure register 6+ psi on the gauge and
heard
> the "clicks" that the Facet pump makes diminish from "click click click
> click" to "click ....... click ...... click .....click." This indicated to
> me that the system was pressurized and the float, needle and valve in the
> carburetor was holding the pressure.
>
> Now when I run the pump before start, the pump keeps clicking, pressure is
> below 2 psi and after a while I see fuel dripping out of the drain hole
that
> I thoughtfully drilled in the bottom of the air filter box.
>
> >From my vast experience with leaky AMAL and BING carburetors on my
> motorcycles, this indicates to me that the needle valve in the carburetor
> body is stuck open with a piece of crud (to use the engineering term.) On
> the other hand, the fellows at the airport say that they have seen this
with
> Marvel carburetors and all it indicates is that the electric boost pump is
> pumping fuel so vigorously that it is overcoming the float, pushing it
down
> into the carburetor and forcing fuel into the carburetor, which then
> overflows.
>
> What say you? Do I have to disassemble the carburetor to clean the float,
> needle valve assembly? If it is plugged can the needle valve be purged
with
> a puff of compressed air?
>
> Steve Soule
> Huntington, Vermont
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Carburetor question |
Take your carb to a repair shop(authorized) and have it checked ,float
level--one pc. venturi,etc. with inflight fire potential this is not the
time to try to save money.
Bob Murphy Poplar Grove ILL. (C77)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cleco Squeezer |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
I use the standard dies for the hand squeezer & use washers for depth
control.
Don Jordan - 6A - N6DJ - Arlington,Tx
******************************************
writes:
>
> Hi,
> I just bought a Cleco brand aligator style pneumatic rivet squeezer
> and I was wondering if any listers could point me to where I can
> find
> the small anvils or whatever the bits are called? It looks pretty
> old,
> and there is no reference to it on the Cleco/Cooper Tools website.
> Also, there doesn't seem to be an adjustment for the amount of
> squeeze it achieves. How do you control these things? Is it just a
>
> matter of varying the air pressure it's fed?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Sam
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Gear Leg Question... |
Is the weight of the plane off the gear? You should have slight toe-in with
no weight on the gear and neutral or maybe some toe-out when full weight on
the gear.
Finn
Matt Dralle wrote:
>
> Hello Fellow RVr's,
>
> Back working on the RV-4 this weekend after a rather long break. I
> bolted the engine mount on yesterday and then installed the gear legs.
> I have the late-model, pre-drilled mount/leg variety from Van's.
> I have a question about the gear leg alignment. I haven't actually
> measured yet, but it looks like I have a few degrees of toe-OUT on each
> of the gear legs. I would assume that optimally I should have toe-IN.
> Is it possible that I installed the gear legs backwards (swapped left
> and right)? The pre-drilled bolt holes lined up perfectly with the
> current arrangement, so I didn't give it a second thought. It seemed to
> me that the probability of the holes being perfectly aligned and the
> same on the left and right side was nearly impossible. Any thought's
> or experience on this?
>
> Thanks for the help,
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-4 Builder
> Email List Admin.
>
> --
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
> Great minds discuss ideas,
> Average minds discuss events,
> Small minds discuss people...
>
----------------------------------------------------
NetZero Platinum
Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Gear Leg Question... |
| From: | Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>
>Hello Fellow RVr's,
>
>Back working on the RV-4 this weekend after a rather long break. I
>bolted the engine mount on yesterday and then installed the gear legs.
>I have the late-model, pre-drilled mount/leg variety from Van's.
>I have a question about the gear leg alignment. I haven't actually
>measured yet, but it looks like I have a few degrees of toe-OUT on each
>of the gear legs. I would assume that optimally I should have toe-IN.
Matt,
On my RV-6, in the three point attitude, there is quite a bit of toe-in.
No idea if it is possible to misinstall the gear legs.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6160hp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV INSTRUCTION, at EAA486 Forum |
,
, ,
RV INSTRUCTION, at EAA486 Forum @ KFZY 9/14, 15 & 16/01
Some slots still open..... you CC'd folks, review your alloted times too please.
NOTE: if you have a time slot issue, like I missed something below YOU write me
imediately!!. PLEASE..this is harder than I thought...If you need to cancel please
give me as much heads up ASAP.....or we will forever point out your bad
rivets at future fly in's!!! LOL.
Seventh ANNUAL RV Builders' Forum
Mike Seager, RV instructor,
will again give RV instruction rides, in Factory RV6
Friday, Saturday and Sunday as weather permits.
(spaces limited, always sold out, for your spot.... email RV6160HP(at)aol.com with
RV INSTRUCTION in subject line)
Below matrix has Time slots open with the blank before the time listed, also note
while Saturday is firmed (no openings for now), We try to seat everyone who
asks.....you should be a close to flight-builder, not a new orentiation type
flight please...orientation flights will be given be other RV builder/Pilots/friends
who show up and done this in the past usual....
SO flights sheduled below on Sunday and some Friday schedules are duplicate lessons
for some fellas...... We will bump them if need be, once all slots are full
for other RV builders who need a slot as required to accomidate all needed,
these duplicate "scheduled" parcitipants are aware of this potential:
FRIDAY 9/14/01
Name Time
0800
Rick Gray 0930
Scheduled 1100
1300
1430
Scheduled 1600
SATURDAY 9/15/01
Name Time
Nick Knobil 0800
Fran Malczynski 0930
Bill Sivori 1100
Michael Thompson1300
Bob O'Rouke 1430
Steve Soule 1600
SUNDAY 9/16/01
Name Time
Scheduled 0800
Scheduled 0930
1100
1300
1430
1600
Trying my best to make this all understandable.....
Respectfully,
David McManmon
RV6 121 hours.
NOT I'll be OFF LINE APPROX WEEK OF 8/13 thru 8/18.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Test fit of wings (VAN'S ANSWER) |
Just got off the phone with Van's. Here's the skinny. They don't believe
that I could be off by 1/8" They said that I would have to try really hard
to do that. Was told that sometimes during riveting of the rear spar
carrythrough in the fuselage, it can bow foward slightly, causing the
mounting ears to bend backward slightly. They suggest fitting the wings
again and this time going slower and taking a good long look at the rear
attach point. See if there was some forward sweep to the wing or not. If
the wing is in the proper position and the rear spar still does not line up,
they say to bend the forks on the fuselage attach point forward by 1/16" and
bend the rear spar tab back by 1/16"
So saith Ken Kruger.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
| Subject: | Fuel vent design (was Preventing iced...) |
Van's fuel system is obviously a proven, safe design, but I am curious as to the
reason for routing the vents through the cockpit with exits under the floor. Is
there a particularly good reason why turning them 180 degrees at the wing root
and exiting at the tips would not do the required trap-anti-siphon function?
Not to inject paranoia into the discussion, I have wondered if in the
unfortunate event of flaming material coming from under the cowl, is there a
potential for igniting the vapors at the tank vents, possibly causing the loss
of a wing in the resulting "kaboom" were the flame front to reach the tank
interior? Do other aircraft (exp. & cert.) have similar vent locations?
Seriously doubt this has ever happened- just being curious...
From the PossumWorks
Mark Phillips
>
> With the fuel vent line starting at the outboard end of the tank and
> meandering around the cockpit to the bottom of the firewall I even
> considered running the vent line outboard to the wingtip and a miniture NACA
> scoop but decided to stay with the standard setup.
>
> George McNutt
> Langley B.C.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel vent design (was Preventing iced...) |
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Fuel vent design (was Preventing iced...)
Thread-Index: AcEeqYMEuLoPft0sTHa4tx0NIMU8BgAACsEw
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
I'm curious if anyone's tried running the vent lines out to the wingtip,
or why it wouldn't work on the RV's. Lancair designs theirs this way.
There are two disadvantages with the current design. First, when fuel
expands in the tanks in-flight (only after a fill up) the fuel dribbling
out the vent lines will work down the belly and into the cockpit. Not
the best thing after a greasy lunch, hot flying weather and a few rolls.
I hate it when a pax asks why they smell fuel. And it stains your
paint. If you run mogas (which I do, in cooler weather) it smells
several magnitudes worse than 100LL does. The other problem I've been
told is that in the event of an accident where the airplane is resting
inverted fuel comes gushing out of the vent lines, right over the
occupant area.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 185 hours
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Phillips [mailto:ripsteel(at)edge.net]
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 1:11 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Fuel vent design (was Preventing iced...)
>
>
>
> Van's fuel system is obviously a proven, safe design, but I
> am curious as to the
> reason for routing the vents through the cockpit with exits
> under the floor. Is
> there a particularly good reason why turning them 180 degrees
> at the wing root
> and exiting at the tips would not do the required
> trap-anti-siphon function?
> Not to inject paranoia into the discussion, I have wondered if in the
> unfortunate event of flaming material coming from under the
> cowl, is there a
> potential for igniting the vapors at the tank vents, possibly
> causing the loss
> of a wing in the resulting "kaboom" were the flame front to
> reach the tank
> interior? Do other aircraft (exp. & cert.) have similar vent
> locations?
> Seriously doubt this has ever happened- just being curious...
>
> From the PossumWorks
> Mark Phillips
>
> >
> > With the fuel vent line starting at the outboard end of the tank and
> > meandering around the cockpit to the bottom of the firewall I even
> > considered running the vent line outboard to the wingtip
> and a miniture NACA
> > scoop but decided to stay with the standard setup.
> >
> > George McNutt
> > Langley B.C.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
Howdy list!
Looking for any first or secondhand knowledge regarding Jabiru engines.
I've been watching their development since first introduced without
giving them much thought. Now they show up at OSH with a 6 liter 8 cyl.
they claim produces 180 hp @ 2700 rpm. Sure it has no service history
yet, but the 4's have been around for a while, and the 6's were
introduced some time ago (not sure when).
Anyone got any flying experience or hangar mates with these engines or
heard anything about the company's reputation for dealing with their
customers?
Thanks in advance
From the PossumWorks
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | efortner <efortner(at)vnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Gear Leg Question... |
Matt you got my curiosity up. I have the drilled gear legs also. I have the
engine
mounted and the tail on a sawhorse to simulate level flight or takeoff
attitude.
I measured from center rib of tires on rear for 5' 10 1/2"
then from from center rib of front for 5' 10 1/8"
Looks like 3/8" tow in on my 4. This method may be unscitific but that is
how we
did it with race cars.
Earl RV4 still building
Matt Dralle wrote:
>
> Hello Fellow RVr's,
>
> Back working on the RV-4 this weekend after a rather long break. I
> bolted the engine mount on yesterday and then installed the gear legs.
> I have the late-model, pre-drilled mount/leg variety from Van's.
> I have a question about the gear leg alignment. I haven't actually
> measured yet, but it looks like I have a few degrees of toe-OUT on each
> of the gear legs. I would assume that optimally I should have toe-IN.
> Is it possible that I installed the gear legs backwards (swapped left
> and right)? The pre-drilled bolt holes lined up perfectly with the
> current arrangement, so I didn't give it a second thought. It seemed to
> me that the probability of the holes being perfectly aligned and the
> same on the left and right side was nearly impossible. Any thought's
> or experience on this?
>
> Thanks for the help,
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-4 Builder
> Email List Admin.
>
> --
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
> Great minds discuss ideas,
> Average minds discuss events,
> Small minds discuss people...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: auto pilot disconnect on switch |
In a message dated 7/23/01 6:32:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
writes:
<< Navaid auto pilot and the say to break the power lead going to the
servo motor for stick mounted disconnect. >>
Hey Scott
I bought a neat little relay from Electric Bob for this. Work great in test
but not flying yet. If you need I'll try to find part number.
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com> |
Well, I just finally got my pickup sold and out of the driveway, which
fulfills my deal with She Who Must Be Obeyed, so as soon as they return my
call, I am planning to send a check to get myself in line for delivery.
The engine was first run a month or so ago, and one is currently being
installed into a Spitfire replica in Australia. They expect to have them in
production soon.
My neighbor completed a Sonex earlier this summer with one of the 4's, and
is extremely pleased with it. It started on about the third blade the first
time he tried it, and has not missed a beat since. He recently finished his
40 hour flyoff.
One of the things he is really appreciating is the muffler. He says he has
the quietest airplane on the airport.
Dealer support in the US has been a little thin, but has recently been
bulked up. There are now two dealerships, one up north, I think in
Minneapolis, and the other in Naples Fla., which I will be dealing with
since I am in New Orleans. My neighbor thought his 5 gallons/hour was
pretty decent until he talked to the dealer. They are sending him new jets
for his carburetor. They say he should be getting under 4.
Supposedly they have someone in Australia working on an RV installation, and
will be offering a firewall-forward kit.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ripsteel(at)edge.net [mailto:ripsteel(at)edge.net]
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:23 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Jabiru engines
>
>
>
> Howdy list!
>
> Looking for any first or secondhand knowledge regarding
> Jabiru engines.
> I've been watching their development since first introduced without
> giving them much thought. Now they show up at OSH with a 6
> liter 8 cyl.
> they claim produces 180 hp @ 2700 rpm. Sure it has no service history
> yet, but the 4's have been around for a while, and the 6's were
> introduced some time ago (not sure when).
>
> Anyone got any flying experience or hangar mates with these engines or
> heard anything about the company's reputation for dealing with their
> customers?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> From the PossumWorks
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | TruTrak Autopilots |
I have been following the development of the TruTrak autopilots
http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/ . These are "next generation"
autopilots developed by Jim Younkin (the sole designer of the Century III
autopilot) and Chuck Bilbe (software wizard). These autopilots are now the
unit of choice for the Lancair crowd. They took the prices off their website
recently so I emailed them for a price list. I just got it in the mail and
found they have introduced an "entry" level unit that comes with or without
altitude hold called the Digiflight 100 and 200. This unit is aimed at the
homebuilder crowd that is currently buying Navaids. Their unit, however, is
far more sophisticated. This unit has a built in digital GPS slaved
directional gyro and magnetometers. The unit flies the GPS setting and if
the GPS fails will revert to a magnetic heading. The price of the units are
$2,575 without altitude hold and $3,975 with. This includes all mounting
hardware. TruTrak also has their full line of full features autopilots with
GPS steering, nav modes, vertcal speed select, altitude select, yaw
dampeners etc.ranging from $4,000 to $10,850. The GPS steering will work
with Apollo units which has been a problem with STEC units until the recent
$$$$ upgrades.
Ross
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Casper Flies-Long |
As of August 5, RV6 N297DG (Casper) has accumulated 5.3 Hrs. First
flight was a short runway hop on July 29th. ( aborted because of strong
winds and an inop com radio).
First real flight was on Saturday August 4th, 5 circuits of Salinas, CA
airport and lasted about 30 minutes.
Laird Owen and a friend came up from the L. A. area in Lairds beautiful
"6" and offered to perform chase duties (look for oil or fuel leaks,
smoke, pieces departing the aircraft etc.).
Casper performed flawlessly, no trim problems, leaks, temps & pressures
all within limits. However I was having trouble understanding
transmissions. It turned out my new Headsets Inc. stereo headset didn't
like working as a mono unit. Latter in the day I flipped the intercom
switch to stereo and it has worked fine since.
Just before landing Ed Cole arrived in the circuit in his "6A" and we
all landed one after another, it was like an RV6 convention.
When we got back to the hanger I pulled the top cowl and four sets of
eyes looked for anything amiss (always wanted to use that word). All we
found was one lose screw on the magneto cover. After lunch we went back
to the airport, put the cowl top on and went flying again. This time out
of the pattern into the real world, after a bit, Laird broke off and Ed
and I flew up and down the valley a while, then headed back to Saloons.
We compared notes, then Ed headed home to Reid Hillview. I pushed Casper
back in the hanger and was just cleaning up stuff, when I heard this
little voice calling me. "Garry, I got lots of gas, weathers great, come
on let's go flying, just one more time".
How can you refuse an offer like that? This time we just played until I
got hungry, as I didn't have much of a lunch ( Laird & Ed, we don't need
to mention whipped cream or cherries do we?).
Total time Saturday 2.2 hrs.
Sunday, lots of circuits at Saloons (not allowed to land anywhere else
for first 5 hrs) and up and down the valley. Total for the day 3.1 hrs,
and boy do I know the valley. 50 gallons of fuel already at $2.79 a
gallon my credit card is going to implode.
Total Time 5.3 hrs. Yeah!
I'm going up latter today and land at every airport I can find, and at
180+ ( no wheel pants yet) that's a bunch of airports.
Comments & Observations of a 5.3 hr RV pilot:
I love flying this airplane. It's fast! The controls are sensitive, but
easy to get used to. It's fast! In flight visibility is awesome. Did I
mention it's really really fast. But.
I flew Ed Cole's "6A" last thursday( first time in a homebuilt high
performance aircraft in 15 years), nice airplane to fly and easy to
land. Great visibility in the air and on the ground.
My RV6, N297DG, "Casper", Fly's great, Take off- OK, Landing, flaps
down- dancing class, flaps up- I won't do that again (at least not until
I've got a lot more time in it).
Visibility on the ground, remember the fellow that ran into a car (a
Thunderbird I think) while taxing? I sure see how he did it. Taxiing
requires extensive use of "S" turns and neck stretching to see out
adequately. It's a good thing that the "6" is so docile at taxi speeds.
If I were trying to decide between a tail dragger and a nose gear RV,
I'd build the nose gear version. If your at a point in construction
where you can easily change over to the "A" version , do so. you won't
regret it. However, you won't be able to strut around like your "Joe Ace
of the Base", but then again, you won't need to strut around like that,
to unclench your butt cheeks, after every landing.
Garry, "Caspers Dad"
N297DG, Flying
Oh, by the way go pound some rivets it worth it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel System Plumbing Question |
>
> All: I am considering the following arrangement of fuel system
> components in my RV-6 and would appreciate any and all suggestions or
> comments from the list.
This is exactly how I did it. I also made sure that the gasolator was at
the lowpoint of the system. I installed my fuel flow meter on the sidewall
next to the rudder pedal after the fuel pump. It is a straight section and
doesn't mind being mounted at a slight angle.
Ross RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrjb(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Gun requirement in airplane law in alaska is no more |
There was a lot of controversary about what had really been changed
regarding guns in airplanes while I was in Alaska. This is the answer I got
back from the FAA rep there.
Bernie Kerr, 6A, 11000sm grin miles since May.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Madden" <John.Madden(at)faa.gov>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 9:56 AM
Subject: RE: Gun requirement in airplane law
> Mr. Kerr --
> The Alaska Legislature reconsidered the state requirement for emergency
> requirements for aircraft operating in Alaska. The requirement to have a
weapon
> (pistol, revolver, shotgun, or rifle) was removed. The bill was signed by
the
> Governor and will be effective September 27, 2001. They had considered
removing
> the requirement just for flights to or from Canada. However, the final
bill
> removed the requirement for all flight operations.
>
> The bill status and full text is available online at:
> http://www.legis.state.ak.us/basis/get_bill.asp?session=22&bill=hb127
>
> [Bracketed text] in the bill was deleted.
>
> This former requirement for a weapon predates statehood. However, the
Alaska
> State Troopers could not recall anyone ever being inspected, arrested, or
> charged with failure to have a weapon.
>
> I hope this clears up any confusion.
>
> John W. Madden
> FAA, Alaskan Region
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Bernie Kerr" <kerrjb(at)msn.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 8:10 AM
> To: John Madden
> Subject: Gun requirement in airplane law
>
>
> Hi John,
>
> Just had a great trip in my homebuilt RV6A from Fla to Lake Clarke. One
thing I
> was real happy with was the yuk to get a rifle thru Canada. While I was
there,
> it seemed everyone had a varying opinion about what had changed regarding
the
> requirement to have a gun on board while flying GA in Alaska. Can you shed
any
> real light on this subject.
>
> Bernie Kerr
>
> kerrjb(at)msn.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net> |
"Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com"
Here is an article I found on nasa.gov about the "Catalytic Ignition (CI)
system on a standard general aviation engine"
http://www.nctn.hq.nasa.gov/innovation/Innovation_81/smignition.html
Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A - N8VD
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Vanremog(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Smart Plugs
I have just become aware of this product <http://www.smartplugs.com> and
wonder if anyone on the RV-List has intimate knowledge of them (I don't mean
that you've slept with them, I mean that you or someone you know well has
actually tried them in a light aircraft ;
) ). It sounds plausible but
crazy
ideas often have the "slight ring of truth" in them.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | TruTrak Autopilots |
I've installed the TruTrak Aupilot servos in my 8A, and can report it was
easy and trouble-free. The pitch servo mounts on the reversing bellcrank
under the baggage compartment, and the roll servo mount in the center of the
fuse just ahead of the manual aileron trim (if you install both). The parts
fit easily. I'd say you could retrofit both roll and pitch servos in about
bout 3 hours, or do a fresh install as you build the plane in 1-2 hours.
Their install kit included all parts and is a tons cleaner install than
S-Tecs (which uses cables).
I've not yet purchased the panel unit or flown with one, but if its as easy
as the servos I'll be very happy.
The servos appeared to me to be smaller and lighter than the S-Tecs, but not
as smooth and possibly they have a bit more resistance than the S-Tec units.
That's turned off- I think they have a different design and the differences
might disappear once power is applied.
Matthew
8A canopy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ross Mickey
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 1:36 PM
Subject: RV-List: TruTrak Autopilots
I have been following the development of the TruTrak autopilots
http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/ . These are "next generation"
autopilots developed by Jim Younkin (the sole designer of the Century III
autopilot) and Chuck Bilbe (software wizard). These autopilots are now the
unit of choice for the Lancair crowd. They took the prices off their website
recently so I emailed them for a price list. I just got it in the mail and
found they have introduced an "entry" level unit that comes with or without
altitude hold called the Digiflight 100 and 200. This unit is aimed at the
homebuilder crowd that is currently buying Navaids. Their unit, however, is
far more sophisticated. This unit has a built in digital GPS slaved
directional gyro and magnetometers. The unit flies the GPS setting and if
the GPS fails will revert to a magnetic heading. The price of the units are
$2,575 without altitude hold and $3,975 with. This includes all mounting
hardware. TruTrak also has their full line of full features autopilots with
GPS steering, nav modes, vertcal speed select, altitude select, yaw
dampeners etc.ranging from $4,000 to $10,850. The GPS steering will work
with Apollo units which has been a problem with STEC units until the recent
$$$$ upgrades.
Ross
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Gun requirement in airplane law in alaska is no |
more
Bernie:
Note that, in order to get to Alaska you will have to fly through what
Transport Canada defines as the "Sparsely Settled Region." In that
region, you are required to carry, among other things, a gun in the
airplane.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Casper Flies-Long |
Garry LeFare wrote:
<< Visibility on the ground, remember the fellow that ran into a car (a
Thunderbird I think) while taxing? I sure see how he did it. Taxiing
requires extensive use of "S" turns and neck stretching to see out
adequately. It's a good thing that the "6" is so docile at taxi speeds. >>
Congratulations on finishing and flying your bird! Regarding the over the
nose visibility:
Have you tried different cushions? In my stock slider -6, I had cushions
made so I sit as high as possible ( I have to duck my head to slide the
bubble forward). On level ground, the nose only blocks my view of the ground
out to about 50 yards. I am very happy with the set-up...
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
RV-6 Slider
0-320 Aymar/Demuth
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Sears" <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Sport Aviation Weekend at Rough River State Park, KY |
KENTUCKY EAA
SPORT AVIATION WEEKEND
27TH ANNUAL FLY-IN
14-16 SEPTEMBER 2001
EVENT:
Sport Aviation Weekend:
Rough River State Park is the site for the 27th annual Sport Aviation
weekend which will have the usual airplane judging of all classes,
judging of pilots landing abilities, and just plain "GOOD OLD FUN" when
getting together with old friends, and making new ones. Wing camping is
allowed, and accommodations include several local motels, as well as the
modern lodge located at the park. Camp sites are rented on the first
come first served basis, no reservations. State Park Lodge reservations
phone number is 1 800 325-1713. (Be sure to mention Sport Aviation
Weekend). Should the Park Lodge be full up try the "Pine Tree Inn" ,
located near the park. The phone number for it is 270 257-2771.
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Carroll Smiley at 270 586-5111 or email
at: csmiley(at)accessky.net
ACTIVITIES:
Judging of homebuilt, antiques, war birds, amphibians, classics,
contemporaries. Awards for the longest distance flown to this event,
best landing, and of coarse " WORST LANDING". Forums will range from
aircraft inspection, to aviation safety. There will be hospitality on
Friday night until whenever, and another on Saturday, before the
banquet. There will be door prizes, and a very special speaker " Ralph
Charles" the OLDEST known active pilot.
Activities begin Friday evening. Judging of acft on Saturday afternoon,
with an awards banquet Saturday night. A schedule of events shall be
available at the registration desk. Make your reservations NOW, dont
wait.
THE AIRPORT:
FALLS OF ROUGH (2I3) Rough River Park.
NAVIGATION: OWB VOR (108.6) to filed 101, 33 nautical miles. MYS VOR
(108.2) to field 212, 22 nautical miles. CCT VOR (109.8) to field 070,
38.6 nautical miles.
RUNWAYS: 2 200, 3200 X 75 asphalt.
BE SAFE, USE STANDARD TRAFFIC PATTERNS, AND PLEASE USE YOUR RADIO.
SEE YOU THERE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV4" <VansRV4GRVMJ(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: spanwise striping |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 5:14 PM
Subject: RV-List: spanwise striping
Hi andy,
When we paint the wings of a B747 we usually paint a 1/2" of clearcoat on
the seam of the paint and the stainless of the L/E to prevent erosion.
Marcel de Ruiter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | TruTrak Autopilots |
Matthew,
I tried to resond to you privatly but the e-mail address was rejected by my
server. Here is the message anyway:
=========================================
Thanks for the TruTrak update Matthew!
How much did you have to pay for what you bought so far? I assume it might
only be 2 servos and harness and/or wires to make a harness.
I noticed you have manual aileron trim. Do you think it will work with
electric trim for pitch and roll?
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Gelber
Sent: August 6, 2001 7:04 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: TruTrak Autopilots
I've installed the TruTrak Aupilot servos in my 8A, and can report it was
easy and trouble-free. The pitch servo mounts on the reversing bellcrank
under the baggage compartment, and the roll servo mount in the center of the
fuse just ahead of the manual aileron trim (if you install both). The parts
fit easily. I'd say you could retrofit both roll and pitch servos in about
bout 3 hours, or do a fresh install as you build the plane in 1-2 hours.
Their install kit included all parts and is a tons cleaner install than
S-Tecs (which uses cables).
I've not yet purchased the panel unit or flown with one, but if its as easy
as the servos I'll be very happy.
The servos appeared to me to be smaller and lighter than the S-Tecs, but not
as smooth and possibly they have a bit more resistance than the S-Tec units.
That's turned off- I think they have a different design and the differences
might disappear once power is applied.
Matthew
8A canopy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ross Mickey
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 1:36 PM
Subject: RV-List: TruTrak Autopilots
I have been following the development of the TruTrak autopilots
http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/ . These are "next generation"
autopilots developed by Jim Younkin (the sole designer of the Century III
autopilot) and Chuck Bilbe (software wizard). These autopilots are now the
unit of choice for the Lancair crowd. They took the prices off their website
recently so I emailed them for a price list. I just got it in the mail and
found they have introduced an "entry" level unit that comes with or without
altitude hold called the Digiflight 100 and 200. This unit is aimed at the
homebuilder crowd that is currently buying Navaids. Their unit, however, is
far more sophisticated. This unit has a built in digital GPS slaved
directional gyro and magnetometers. The unit flies the GPS setting and if
the GPS fails will revert to a magnetic heading. The price of the units are
$2,575 without altitude hold and $3,975 with. This includes all mounting
hardware. TruTrak also has their full line of full features autopilots with
GPS steering, nav modes, vertcal speed select, altitude select, yaw
dampeners etc.ranging from $4,000 to $10,850. The GPS steering will work
with Apollo units which has been a problem with STEC units until the recent
$$$$ upgrades.
Ross
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV4" <VansRV4GRVMJ(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
That's correct Gert, but what I reffer to is the procedure used on airliners
that are still in one bit........... or otherwise reffered to as
serviceable........
Marcel
>
> It's all in the scale here, but if memory serves well, when the comet
> (?) the british 1st jetliner started crashing, it was put in a specially
> designed bath and pressure applied from the outside, cycled till
> destruction. I believe one of the things found was the corners on the
> windows being too square acting as stress risers.
>
> RV4 wrote:
> >
> >
> > > ever wondered why tanks/pressure vessels are pressure tested with
fluid
> > > rather than a gas ???
> >
> > an aircraft fuselage doesn't get tested with fluid. They just pressurise
it
> > with air.
> >
> > if you think in the line of aircraft, every time it pressurises it is
> > counted as a cycle, causing fatigue to the airframe. Would it not simply
be
> > better to leave the darn thing pressurised and cut down on the cycles?
> >
> > bare in mind that there's a huge difference in compressors, the more
> > expensive ones come with cast iron pump and tank, while the cheaper
ones
> > are often all aluminium.
> >
> > marcel
> >
>
> --
> is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Gun requirement in airplane law in alaska is no |
more
>
>Bernie:
>
>Note that, in order to get to Alaska you will have to fly through what
>Transport Canada defines as the "Sparsely Settled Region." In that
>region, you are required to carry, among other things, a gun in the
>airplane.
>
>Tedd McHenry
Tedd,
I don't believe there is currently a requirement to carry a firearm.
Things changed with the introduction of the Canadian Aviation
Regulations (CARs), which replaced the old Air Regs. There used to
be an Air Reg which had a very specific of required survival
equipment, but it is no longer in force. The old rule can be seen at:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/actsregs/aeronaut/old-airregs/aa39.htm
I don't even see any reference to a firearm requirement in there.
The new requirement is found in CAR 602.61, which is now very
generally worded. See:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/regserv/carac/CARS/cars/602e.htm#602_61
Are you aware of some requirement that I have missed?
Take care,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Casper Flies-Long |
Gary and Kyle,
I have seen a different tail wheel mounted on some RVs that raises the tail
about three to four inches higher I'm told that this helps a bit with
forward visibility.
I can get the info on this if it is of interest to you.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: <KBoatri144(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Casper Flies-Long
>
> Garry LeFare wrote:
>
> << Visibility on the ground, remember the fellow that ran into a car (a
> Thunderbird I think) while taxing? I sure see how he did it. Taxiing
> requires extensive use of "S" turns and neck stretching to see out
> adequately. It's a good thing that the "6" is so docile at taxi speeds.
>>
>
> Congratulations on finishing and flying your bird! Regarding the over the
> nose visibility:
>
> Have you tried different cushions? In my stock slider -6, I had cushions
> made so I sit as high as possible ( I have to duck my head to slide the
> bubble forward). On level ground, the nose only blocks my view of the
ground
> out to about 50 yards. I am very happy with the set-up...
>
> Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
> RV-6 Slider
> 0-320 Aymar/Demuth
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Gear Leg Question... |
> I measured from center rib of tires on rear for 5' 10 1/2"
> then from from center rib of front for 5' 10 1/8"> Looks like 3/8"
tow in on my 4. This method may be unscitific but
> Earl RV4 still building
>
Wouldn't that be 3/16" tow - in?
tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bryan" <timbryan(at)oregontrail.net> |
| Subject: | Central Oregon Fly-in |
Hi Listers, Especially those in Oregon/ Washington
Central Oregon Chapter 617 is having their 8th annual fly-in and this year a
hangar dedication on Saturday September 11th. That is this NEXT Saturday at
the Prineville, Oregon airport. The Chapter recently built a new chapter
hangar and plans a short (very short) dedication after the pancake
breakfast. There will be lunch offered as well. Those of you that are
within a reasonable flying distance, please come join us. There are two
flying RV's in our chapter and at least five under construction. Van's has
been invited also.
Breakfast is from 7:00 till 10:00 and lunch from 11:00-3:00.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Slider (N616TB Reserved) Finish kit
tim(at)bryantechnology.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Casper Flies-Long |
In a message dated 8/6/01 2:30:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Garry LeGare
"versadek"@earthlink.net writes:
<< As of August 5, RV6 N297DG (Casper) has accumulated 5.3 Hrs. >>
Way to go man! Good Job! You should have come over to Watsonville for lunch
today. Starting new job tomorrow, so no more week days off ;
(.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Casper Flies-Long |
Thanks for your comments Kyle.
Here is a little more info regarding visibility. My seat bases are high density
polystyrene foam, hot wire cut to match Dianne's and my butt ( no, I'm not going
to detail this procedure). Over this is two layers of Temper Foam and the
sheepskin (cool in summer, warm in winter) covering. When I first get in I have
to tilt my head a little so I can close the Canopy (tilt). After a couple of
minutes the foam settles and I can sit straight, with my, low profile headset
just below the canopy. Visibility on the left side is OK, the right side is
blind. All I can see to the right is a large expanse of Caspers nose. That is
until I get the tail up and then the view is awesome and with the light stick
forces, it's like hardly being in an airplane, it's more like just flying.
Garry, "Caspers Dad"
KBoatri144(at)aol.com wrote:
> Snip
>
> Have you tried different cushions? In my stock slider -6, I had cushions
> made so I sit as high as possible ( I have to duck my head to slide the
> bubble forward). On level ground, the nose only blocks my view of the ground
> out to about 50 yards. I am very happy with the set-up...
>
> Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
> RV-6 Slider
> 0-320 Aymar/Demuth
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Casper Flies-Long |
Laird,
I appreciate the comments and your help on saturday. Please refer to my reply to
Kyles earlier post. Also Ed took an in flight picture after you left. I can
E mail it to you. At least I think I can, It shows my head just a hair (yes it
was on purpose) below the canopy. Don't know how I could sit any higher. Anyway
I can see ahead just not on the right side. Have a good one.
Garry
"Owens, Laird" wrote:
>
> Garry,
>
> Congratulations again on your first (real) flight. Was happy to fly chase for
you. Good job.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MELVIN BARLOW" <melbarlow(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | re: spanwise paint stripes on wings |
My 12 year old -4 has the leading edges painted to a point about 4-5 inches
aft of the LE, top and bottom. Also, has a 1/2 " wide strip of uhhh
stripping tape (AKA 3M black masking tape) spaced about one tape-width aft
of
the paint line. The trim paint and tape are on top of the base color, and
there is no clearcoat. The trim coat is pretty thin, however (for
lightness). This might be a worst case scenario?
Never noticed any aerodynamic problems in over 700 Hrs. Course, YMMV as they
say.
Mel Barlow
RV 4 N114RV, Based at KIJD, Ct
160 Lyc/Warnke 72X72
>>(snip) Has anybody ever heard of anyone having aerodynamic problems from
painting
spanwise stripes on their wings, or spanwise trim tape.<<<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | dual ownership dual builder status |
Does the FAA have provisions for dual builder status, so both parties
can do the maintenance thing?
My son is helping me build our RV9a. I am going to make him 1/2 owner,
so if anything happens to me, he will own the plane, without probate.
I would like him to be able to work on the plane (annuals and
maintenance etc.)
Has anyone tried to do this?
Barry Pote RV9a fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sump modification for inverted system |
Anyone out there had any of the sump modifications done to their engine for
the Christen inverted system that can recommend a shop that knows what their
doing with regards to where to put the additional threaded boss and so forth?
Thanks and regards,
Don
RV8 NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | fuel line torque values |
Are there any suggestions as to how tight I should tighten the nut on the
fuel line pick up inside of thank? Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marty Sailer" <rvmarty(at)port1.citx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piper style electric stall warning switch |
Tim,
The prices that I have received for used Piper stall warning switches was
$200.00 to $250.00. I'm looking for a better price, any ideas?
Marty Sailer RV-6A
Installing engine
-----Original Message-----
>
>By the way, builders can make and install a Piper-style audible stall
>warning system for the cost of a switch, some aluminum, and a couple
>of small screws and bolts. Pictures and measurements are at my web
>site, http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a/stall.htm.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My new air compressor |
I recall it was just an open-topped,purpose built tank with just the
fuselage in it. Air was pumped in and out of the fuselage all day long
simulating many pressurization cycles. The weight of the water may have had
an effect on the pressures involved. At least the first minute crack would
have shown up as a stream of bubbles and the water would have considerably
slowed the shrapnel if the fuselage explosively failed.
Scott IN Vancouver
RV-6
----- Original Message -----
From: gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: My new air compressor
>
> It's all in the scale here, but if memory serves well, when the comet
> (?) the british 1st jetliner started crashing, it was put in a specially
> designed bath and pressure applied from the outside, cycled till
> destruction. I believe one of the things found was the corners on the
> windows being too square acting as stress risers.
>
> RV4 wrote:
> >
> >
> > > ever wondered why tanks/pressure vessels are pressure tested with
fluid
> > > rather than a gas ???
> >
> > an aircraft fuselage doesn't get tested with fluid. They just pressurise
it
> > with air.
> >
> > if you think in the line of aircraft, every time it pressurises it is
> > counted as a cycle, causing fatigue to the airframe. Would it not simply
be
> > better to leave the darn thing pressurised and cut down on the cycles?
> >
> > bare in mind that there's a huge difference in compressors, the more
> > expensive ones come with cast iron pump and tank, while the cheaper
ones
> > are often all aluminium.
> >
> > marcel
> >
>
> --
> is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | fuel line torque values |
AN fitting torque values are described in a table in AC-43.13
I found a useful reference guide for various torque values on Chris Good's
web site: http://rv.supermatrix.com/
Hope this helps,
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bobpaulo(at)aol.com
Sent: August 6, 2001 9:47 PM
Subject: RV-List: fuel line torque values
Are there any suggestions as to how tight I should tighten the nut on the
fuel line pick up inside of thank? Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Preventing iced up fuel vent |
I had thought of the vent icing back when I was making my wings two years
ago. Decided to make two more of the fairings that cover the rudder-cable
exit holes on the fuselage sides and rivet or epoxy them in front of the
vents. This way, there is no suction being applied inadvertently to the
vent opening and it doesn't matter how much ice is on the fairing. Found the
pattern on Sam Buchanan's website.
Scott in Vancouver
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Lewis <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 7:08 AM
Subject: RV-List: Preventing iced up fuel vent
>
> Listers,
>
> I was helping an acquaintance prepare for flight test yesterday, and an
> interesting question came up: Should an IFR RV have some provision
> for fuel tank venting in case an inadvertent encounter with ice causes
> the fuel tank vents to ice up.
>
> I think that's worth considering. It's my understanding that "sharp"
> surfaces on the aircraft tend to ice up first. I've observed my little
> OAT probe accumulate ice much quicker than my wing does. I
> suspect my fuel vents were accumulating ice at the same time,
> although I never give it much thought.
>
> Potential solutions:
>
> 1. Drill a small hole from the back side of the vent, angled up, so that
> air can enter the back side of the vent if the front side is plugged with
> ice.
>
> or
>
> 2. Install a "T" fitting in the vent line just above the vent (inside the
> cockpit). From the T, run a line up to a valve within the pilot's reach.
> The valve could be opened in case ice blocks the external fuel vent.
>
> I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
>
> Tim
> ******
> Tim Lewis -- Fairfax, VA
> RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
> http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
> ******
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Piper style electric stall warning switch |
On page 334 in Aircraft Spruce's newest catalog you will find several types
of stall warning devices including AoA indicators. The cheapest one is said;
by Aircraft Spruce; to have been used in many RV's and is $68.85. It's
called "The Reddish Stall Warner". It looks much like a standard stall horn.
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Marty Sailer
Sent: August 6, 2001 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Piper style electric stall warning switch
Tim,
The prices that I have received for used Piper stall warning switches was
$200.00 to $250.00. I'm looking for a better price, any ideas?
Marty Sailer RV-6A
Installing engine
-----Original Message-----
>
>By the way, builders can make and install a Piper-style audible stall
>warning system for the cost of a switch, some aluminum, and a couple
>of small screws and bolts. Pictures and measurements are at my web
>site, http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a/stall.htm.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Carburetor question |
This is really not a good situation. The carburetor is allowing the electric
pump to have an affect on how much fuel it meters into the throat and you
could quite conceivably end up with the engine quitting due to over-rich
mixture when you least expect it- like on short final at a low power
setting.
Not entirely related but had a problem whereby an RV-4 wouldn't start after
being reassembled following an off-airport dismantling. The electric pump
built up pressure fine but the engine would only run using the primer.
Eventually discovered the lines were hooked up to the engine-driven pump
backwards...
Scott in Vancouver
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen J. Soule <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 6:34 AM
Subject: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
>
> Hey you carburetor gurus,
>
> I have a grand total of 2 (count 'em, two!) hours taxi testing my RV-6A
with
> O-320 D1A Aero Sport engine. Before the first start, I activated the
> electric fuel pump, saw fuel pressure register 6+ psi on the gauge and
heard
> the "clicks" that the Facet pump makes diminish from "click click click
> click" to "click ....... click ...... click .....click." This indicated to
> me that the system was pressurized and the float, needle and valve in the
> carburetor was holding the pressure.
>
> Now when I run the pump before start, the pump keeps clicking, pressure is
> below 2 psi and after a while I see fuel dripping out of the drain hole
that
> I thoughtfully drilled in the bottom of the air filter box.
>
> From my vast experience with leaky AMAL and BING carburetors on my
> motorcycles, this indicates to me that the needle valve in the carburetor
> body is stuck open with a piece of crud (to use the engineering term.) On
> the other hand, the fellows at the airport say that they have seen this
with
> Marvel carburetors and all it indicates is that the electric boost pump is
> pumping fuel so vigorously that it is overcoming the float, pushing it
down
> into the carburetor and forcing fuel into the carburetor, which then
> overflows.
>
> What say you? Do I have to disassemble the carburetor to clean the float,
> needle valve assembly? If it is plugged can the needle valve be purged
with
> a puff of compressed air?
>
> Steve Soule
> Huntington, Vermont
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Carburetor question |
If I remember correctly, aircraft carbs must be set up for either gravity feed
or pump. There's a lot less pressure available in a gravity system so the needle
valve must be able to open with less pressure than you have with a system using
a pump. I also seem to remember that if you try to use a pump on a low pressure
carb it will leak.
I'm not sure if this applies to Marvel carburetors but you might want to check
it.
Dave
"Stephen J. Soule" wrote:
>
> Cy,
>
> OK, I'll turn off the pump. That's the advice the airport guys are giving
> me. They say just to run the engine on the engine driven pump.
>
> But why did it hold 6 psi at first and now doesn't get much above 2 psi
> before starting to leak? ... And isn't that a problem?
>
> Steve (still puzzled)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley(at)qcbc.org]
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:27 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
>
>
> Turn off the pump!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
> To: "Rv-List (E-mail)"
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:34 AM
> Subject: RV-List: Marvel Carburetor question
>
>
> Hey you carburetor gurus,
>
> I have a grand total of 2 (count 'em, two!) hours taxi testing my RV-6A with
> O-320 D1A Aero Sport engine. Before the first start, I activated the
> electric fuel pump, saw fuel pressure register 6+ psi on the gauge and heard
> the "clicks" that the Facet pump makes diminish from "click click click
> click" to "click ....... click ...... click .....click." This indicated to
> me that the system was pressurized and the float, needle and valve in the
> carburetor was holding the pressure.
>
> Now when I run the pump before start, the pump keeps clicking, pressure is
> below 2 psi and after a while I see fuel dripping out of the drain hole that
> I thoughtfully drilled in the bottom of the air filter box.
>
> >From my vast experience with leaky AMAL and BING carburetors on my
> motorcycles, this indicates to me that the needle valve in the carburetor
> body is stuck open with a piece of crud (to use the engineering term.) On
> the other hand, the fellows at the airport say that they have seen this with
> Marvel carburetors and all it indicates is that the electric boost pump is
> pumping fuel so vigorously that it is overcoming the float, pushing it down
> into the carburetor and forcing fuel into the carburetor, which then
> overflows.
>
> What say you? Do I have to disassemble the carburetor to clean the float,
> needle valve assembly? If it is plugged can the needle valve be purged with
> a puff of compressed air?
>
> Steve Soule
> Huntington, Vermont
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miller Robert <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> |
I, like many others, anxiously await Van's 4 seat design, having not
settled in on any other available 4- seat kit design... (given that I have
decided on metal, and no other designs have captured my excitement or seem
as attractive to me and my son as RV's). So I read Tim's post with
interest. If the early word on engines is accurate, however, than I'm a bit
surprised at the absence of the - what seems to me - logical option.
The SMA305 diesel seems to be the farthest along in development. Before
anyone completes an RV 4-seat kit, it will have been flown for quite some
time by Socata, Cirrus, and others. The involvement of Embry-Riddle
University will be of help in the USA for support, continued development
issues, etc. ... (and as most of you know, Embry-Riddle is flying a 182 with
this engine noe.) Some maturation of the design has already taken place,
and that will continue.
It is JAR certified at this time and FAA certification should soon follow.
The horsepower is ideal for the range stated below (230hp), and the many
advantages of this engine over the old gas engines listed below are well
known to most on this group. So, if they are not already doing so (which
would surprise me), I hope Van's is looking at this engine for the four seat
design. It certainly would seem an attractive package to me. A firewall
forward option for this engine would be most desireable (as engineering
issues could be addressed in development of the airframe) and does not
preclude other packages being available as well.
Robert
Tim Lewis wrote:
>
> Insights into the Van's 4-seater:
>
> At the OSH RV banquet Van was asked about the nomenclature for
> the 4 seater. He said there's no reason not to use RV-10, since it's the
> next number in sequence.
>
> Other insights he gave us: low wing, the tail has been fabricated and
> passed testing before OSH. Engine 200-260 HP. Projected 1100 lb
> useful load. Doors, not sliding canopy.
>
> The next day I chatted with Ken Krueger (Van's engineering staff)
> about the design goals of the RV-10. Ken indicated they are aiming
> for cruise speed the same as the RV-6. Engines up for consideration
> range from the Lycoming IO-360 to several different versions of the IO-
> 540, as well as engines from Franklin and Continental.
>
> Tim
> ******
> Tim Lewis -- Fairfax, VA
> RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
> http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
> ******
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill Size Question |
All I could think of to add was that I've noticed that, as soon as the point
of the drill bit breaks through the material, the rest of the drill bit
starts behaving like the rotor in a rotary engine and ricocheting off its
three fluted spirals creating the classic three-sided hole which won't
accept the bolt or rivet. The solution was to have something held on the
other side of the hole to keep that drill point engaged..
Scott in Vancouver
----- Original Message -----
From: Ellis H Mcgaughy <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 5:28 AM
Subject: RV-List: Drill Size Question
>
> More info.
>
> First, thanks to all who sent advice. There are a couple of suggestions I
> intend to try.
>
> But, let me tell you what I found yesterday!
>
> I carefully drilled some holes in 1/8" aircraft aluminum. Well
lubricated,
> in a drill press. All holes appear perfectly round. Holes were drilled
> with 2 different #12 bits (came in the same package from Avery) and a
3/16"
> drill bit.
>
> After drilling, I took 5 different AN3 bolts to see if any / all would fit
> in the holes.
>
> Results.
>
> One of the #12 bits drilled holes smaller than the 3/16" bit. And the
> other #12 bit drilled a hole larger than the 3/16" bit. There is
obviously
> a difference in the two #12's. The bit that was drilling the smaller hole
> was the one I had been using and could not understand why none of the AN3
> bolts would fit.
>
> I am mic'ing the bits today and will publish the results. I also plan to
> call Averys .... they are great folks and I am sure will help.
>
> I may invest in some reamers for AN3, AN4, and AN5 size holes. This
ordeal
> has been very frustrating for me. When a bit is stamped #12, you expect
it
> to be .1890 inches.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn & Judi" <foxinsocks(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piper style electric stall warning switch |
Try White Industries (see Trade-a-plane). You should be able to find it for
about $100.00
-Glenn Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty Sailer" <rvmarty(at)port1.citx.net>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Piper style electric stall warning switch
>
> Tim,
>
> The prices that I have received for used Piper stall warning switches was
> $200.00 to $250.00. I'm looking for a better price, any ideas?
>
> Marty Sailer RV-6A
> Installing engine
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >
> >By the way, builders can make and install a Piper-style audible stall
> >warning system for the cost of a switch, some aluminum, and a couple
> >of small screws and bolts. Pictures and measurements are at my web
> >site, http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a/stall.htm.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: dual ownership dual builder status |
ANYONE can do the maintenance. It is just the yearly conditional inspection
that requires the limited mechanics certificate.
----- Original Message -----
From: "barry pote" <barrypote(at)home.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:39 PM
Subject: RV-List: dual ownership dual builder status
Does the FAA have provisions for dual builder status, so both parties
can do the maintenance thing?
My son is helping me build our RV9a. I am going to make him 1/2 owner,
so if anything happens to me, he will own the plane, without probate.
I would like him to be able to work on the plane (annuals and
maintenance etc.)
Has anyone tried to do this?
Barry Pote RV9a fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | Central Oregon Fly-in |
Make that August 11th. On the Gregorian Calendar.
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com> |
| Subject: | Drill Size Question |
More info.
First, thanks to all who sent advice. There are a couple of suggestions I
intend to try.
But, let me tell you what I found yesterday!
I carefully drilled some holes in 1/8" aircraft aluminum. Well lubricated,
in a drill press. All holes appear perfectly round. Holes were drilled
with 2 different #12 bits (came in the same package from Avery) and a 3/16"
drill bit.
After drilling, I took 5 different AN3 bolts to see if any / all would fit
in the holes.
Results.
One of the #12 bits drilled holes smaller than the 3/16" bit. And the
other #12 bit drilled a hole larger than the 3/16" bit. There is obviously
a difference in the two #12's. The bit that was drilling the smaller hole
was the one I had been using and could not understand why none of the AN3
bolts would fit.
I am mic'ing the bits today and will publish the results. I also plan to
call Averys .... they are great folks and I am sure will help.
I may invest in some reamers for AN3, AN4, and AN5 size holes. This ordeal
has been very frustrating for me. When a bit is stamped #12, you expect it
to be .1890 inches.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dual ownership dual builder status |
The FAA has no problem with dual builders, however the maintenance
certificate can only be held by one of the builders, as I understand it...
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "barry pote" <barrypote(at)home.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 6:39 PM
Subject: RV-List: dual ownership dual builder status
>
> Does the FAA have provisions for dual builder status, so both parties
> can do the maintenance thing?
>
> My son is helping me build our RV9a. I am going to make him 1/2 owner,
> so if anything happens to me, he will own the plane, without probate.
>
> I would like him to be able to work on the plane (annuals and
> maintenance etc.)
>
> Has anyone tried to do this?
>
> Barry Pote RV9a fuselage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Gear Leg Question... |
Hi Matt --
The legs should have a L and a R stamped on the end of the leg that fits in
the engine mount. I had the undrilled ones, but mine clearly are marked
(well, clearly if you know where to look :-)
-Mike
RV-4 fuse almost completed!!
> Hello Fellow RVr's,
>
> Back working on the RV-4 this weekend after a rather long break. I
> bolted the engine mount on yesterday and then installed the gear legs.
> I have the late-model, pre-drilled mount/leg variety from Van's.
> I have a question about the gear leg alignment. I haven't actually
> measured yet, but it looks like I have a few degrees of toe-OUT on each
> of the gear legs. I would assume that optimally I should have toe-IN.
> Is it possible that I installed the gear legs backwards (swapped left
> and right)? The pre-drilled bolt holes lined up perfectly with the
> current arrangement, so I didn't give it a second thought. It seemed to
> me that the probability of the holes being perfectly aligned and the
> same on the left and right side was nearly impossible. Any thought's
> or experience on this?
>
> Thanks for the help,
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-4 Builder
> Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: spanwise striping |
I believe the original question had to do with disrupting airflow with
spanwise paint striping. Somewhere in the assembly manual, presumably under
painting, Van's discusses this topic and makes a recommendation as to not
having discontinuities such as paint intersections in the area forward of
the spar, IIRC.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A N66AP, final assembly
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas Mosher" <tmosher(at)gbronline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel line torque values |
If you know the size of the AN fitting, I could always look it up in my
Pratt & Whitney Canada reference material (I'm currently working on a PWC
308C set of maintenance procedures for the company I work for).
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: <Bobpaulo(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:46 PM
Subject: RV-List: fuel line torque values
>
> Are there any suggestions as to how tight I should tighten the nut on the
> fuel line pick up inside of thank? Bob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Casper Flies-Long |
This might help with visibility but I bet it would make the RV-6 a bear
to land three-point in a stall.
One reason the RV-6 is sorta picky about three point landings is because
the wing is not at a very high angle of attack when all three wheels are
on the ground. Hence, the famous "RV Skip".....
Me thinks that is one reason the early RV-4's got redesigned with longer
gear.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, three point landings, 2 1/2 pointers, skips, hops,
bounces, wheelies, etc, etc,....)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
============
Jim Jewell wrote:
>
>
> Gary and Kyle,
>
> I have seen a different tail wheel mounted on some RVs that raises the tail
> about three to four inches higher I'm told that this helps a bit with
> forward visibility.
> I can get the info on this if it is of interest to you.
>
> Jim in Kelowna
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene" <gene(at)nvaircraft.com> |
| Subject: | Facet Fuel Pumps |
I am concerned that the plans call for installing a Facet fuel pump
inside the cockpit. Is this something I should be worried about or are
these pumps reliable and won't leak ??
Gene RV-9 #90296 fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Facet Fuel Pumps |
It is almost impossible for the square Facet Pump to leak. The only
failure mode that is conceivable is if you took the pump apart and
reassembled it wrong. As supplied they are very dependable and repairs to
them are almost unheard of. You may want to put a filter on the inlet as
is recommended by the manufacturer. Refer to posts on the list last week
were the filter issue was discussed at length.
Garry, "Caspers Dad" who didn't get to go flying tonight, darn work.
Gene wrote:
>
> I am concerned that the plans call for installing a Facet fuel pump
> inside the cockpit. Is this something I should be worried about or are
> these pumps reliable and won't leak ??
>
> Gene RV-9 #90296 fuselage
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | My latest blunder, an -8 front baggage door horror story |
I became so frustrated with fitting my front baggage door (on an 8A) that I
gave up and actually didn't work on my plane for a while. I've just figured
it out... that door skin only LOOKS like it's a rectangle. On closer
inspection it appears that the long sides are curved and I was
(predictably?) trying to fit the door skin on inside-out. So that's why I
felt like I was going insane when I couldn't bend it to fit...
New parts will be ordered.
Matthew "I'm not that stupid, really" Gelber
8A canopy/baggage door
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Casper Flies-Long |
Catch you latter, congrats on the job.
Garry
Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/6/01 2:30:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Garry LeGare
> "versadek"@earthlink.net writes:
>
> << As of August 5, RV6 N297DG (Casper) has accumulated 5.3 Hrs. >>
>
> Way to go man! Good Job! You should have come over to Watsonville for lunch
> today. Starting new job tomorrow, so no more week days off ;
(.
>
> -GV (RV-6A N1GV)
> vanremog(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Cantrell <kcflyrv(at)pacbell.net> |
Hi Listers
Last week I asked why my new Hartzel prop didn't cycle. On the 2nd
engine run it worked fine. Problem solved.
New problem... When the prop is in full coarse pitch, the base of the
prop contacts the spinner backplate. I assembled the spinner backplate
according to Van's instructions including the 1/4" spacers between the
prop and backplate.
Do I need to put more spacers in there and replace my newly cut out
spinner or can I adjust the setting of the max coarse setting? I really
don't think I need the amount of pitch I get when I twist the blades by
hand to the limit.
I'm sure some of you have been here...
Thanks,
Ken Cantrell
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Spar Reinforce Plate ????? |
Jack,
You will find them cut to exact size in bag 419. You only have to radius
them and drill the holes.
Are
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jack Textor
Sent: August 6, 2001 12:53 PM
Subject: RV-List: Spar Reinforce Plate ?????
Morning friends,
Just getting back to building after returning from spending too many $$$
at OSH. Working on RV8 aileron. Are the A408's (spar reinforcement
plates) supplied or do I need to fashion them from stock provided? Just
can't seem to locate them.
Thanks,
Jack
RV8, wings
Good to meet many at OSH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Gun requirement in airplane law in alaska is no |
more
Kevin:
>
> Tedd,
>
> I don't believe there is currently a requirement to carry a firearm.
What I said was based on the old regs; I wasn't aware they had changed.
Shows you how long it has been since I flew in the Sparsely Settle Area
myself!
Tedd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Spar Reinforce Plate ????? |
Jack,
You will find them cut to exact size in bag 419. You only have to radius
them and drill the holes.
Are
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jack Textor
Sent: August 6, 2001 12:53 PM
Subject: RV-List: Spar Reinforce Plate ?????
Morning friends,
Just getting back to building after returning from spending too many $$$
at OSH. Working on RV8 aileron. Are the A408's (spar reinforcement
plates) supplied or do I need to fashion them from stock provided? Just
can't seem to locate them.
Thanks,
Jack
RV8, wings
Good to meet many at OSH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
The list appears to be back up! Can't resist trying it out.
Just an fyi.....ordered a Sensenich prop from Van's on 8/8/01 and received
confirmation from them and an expected shipment date from factory of
10/20/01. UPS pulled up on 8/24 with the prop! Just 16 days...not bad!
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
I don't know when you have time to eat and sleep. I kow you spend hours
and hours working on this list.
Hope to see some of the rest of you at the homecoming this weekend at
Van's
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrjb(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | SL-40 Com for sale, upgrading my panel |
After my trip to Alaska and to Oshkosh, I've decided to install some IFR nav
gear and get my ticket. Am planning to buy an SL-30 which is the same
radio, but with VOR, LOC, and GS.
My radio has 200 hours use on it and is a fine radio. If I can't get $995
for it, will probably keep it as 2nd radio. A new one from Van is $1295 and
I am not aware of any updates to it since purchase date. Reading the
articles by independent sources says the SL-40 has the latest technological
features of any radio on the market. It has the best output watts to input
watts (therefore runs cooler) than any radio that I know of.
Bernie Kerr, 6A, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Weighing the RV-6A |
I'm at the point of weighing my RV-6A. Apart from finding scales, I welcome
advice from those who have done this before me. What would you do
differently if you were to weigh your airplane again?
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Santschi" <rv8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Scotchbrite alclade |
Why would you want to scuff the surface of alclade alm? Isn't it the best
corrosion protection there is.
Chris Santschi RV8 On gear.
Festus,MO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Filling Pop Rivet Heads?? |
Morning all!
For flush pop rivets, how is everyone filling them? I'm thinking of using
JB Weld for aluminum. Hopefully this will not vibrate out and may???
strengthen the rivet. It is hard to sand. Any thoughts?
Jack
DSM
RV8
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | First flight of N601RD (RV-4) (08AUG01) |
| From: | pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com |
08/28/2001 09:25:40 AM
----- Forwarded by Dean Pichon/ADLittle on 08/28/01 07:58 AM -----
Dean Pichon
To: RV-List(at)matronics.com
08/08/01 cc:
03:08 PM bcc:
Subject: First flight of N601RD (RV-4)
After just less than 10 years of steady building, I flew N601RD for the
first time. The plane flew great! I was too nervous/excited to record
much interesting data for everyone, but will share the little I have. I
was up for about an hour on this hot and humid day in Boston. The oil
temperature stabilized at about 180 and the cylinder head temperatures were
steady between 286 (the coolest) and 314 (the hottest). Electric flaps and
trim servos worked fine. The Performance Airflow fuel injection system and
the Lasar electronic ignition both worked great. Pitch and roll stick
forces are seemed appropriate, although, roll forces are noticeably lighter
than pitch forces. The aircraft stabilized beautifully on final at about
75kts with 1/3 flaps. I crossed the numbers with 2/3 flaps and started to
flare with about 70kts. With hindsight, this seemed a little fast since
the plane bounced once before settling down. The gear is very springy, but
did not exhibit any bad characteristics (in my one landing). I have not
installed gear leg stiffeners, and probably will not until I find that the
"springiness" is difficult to deal with.
As for how fast it goes, I don't know yet, but a hell of a lot faster than
the Navion chase plane!
Gripes were few, though no first flight would be complete without them:
- Transponder did not work (especially irritating since I just had a
local radio shop check the unit and certify the Mode C)
- Oil drips found on one of the oil cooler lines upon removing the cowl
- Slight exhaust gas leak at the seal between cylinders and exhaust
pipes
- Artificial horizon didn't work (and its new!)
Other than these issues, everything went great. The sense of relief and
accomplishment are overwhelming. I'll post more useful/interesting flight
data as I make more flights.
Dean Pichon
Time to start "tweaking"
**** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of
Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain
confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee
only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not
the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible.****
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan Jones" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Discovery Wings 'Building an RV-8' |
I wouldn't worry about removing the alclad. All you need is a good anchor
pattern (roughness) and a clean surface. This applies to painting any
aluminum surface. You can get the anchor pattern through acid etching or
buffing with a Scotchbrite pad. Follow the recommendations provided by the
coating manufacturer you plan to use.
Bryan Jones -8
CFI, RV Transition Training
Pearland, Texas
>that on the -8, you must scuff with Scotchbrite to 'remove
>the AlClad' before painting.
>
>Sounds like a lot of work. I hope that doesn't apply to the
>-7 I'm thinking of starting.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weighing the RV-6A |
Make sure that you chock the wheels and determine who is in charge of the
operation. I say again, Chock the wheels, Who is the responsible party!
Chock the wheels!
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:59 AM
Subject: RV-List: Weighing the RV-6A
>
> I'm at the point of weighing my RV-6A. Apart from finding scales, I
welcome
> advice from those who have done this before me. What would you do
> differently if you were to weigh your airplane again?
>
> Steve Soule
> Huntington, Vermont
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tommy Walker" <twsurveyor(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Filling Pop Rivet Heads?? |
The best method I've found is to fill the pop rivet cavity with CA glue powder
type filler, a drop of CA glue and you have an instant sandable filled pop rivet!
Tommy
6A Ridgetop, TN
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Textor
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 8:24 AM
Subject: RV-List: Filling Pop Rivet Heads??
Morning all!
For flush pop rivets, how is everyone filling them
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Filling Pop Rivet Heads?? |
BE AWARE: I have a friend who filled his pop rivets on his RV-8. When he
took the plane to the paintshop he had to pay an additional charge for them
to remove the 'fillings' since they wouldn't be compatible with the paint.
The paint shop in this case preferred to do it themsleves.
Are
RV-8 Wings (still!)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tommy Walker
Sent: August 28, 2001 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Filling Pop Rivet Heads??
The best method I've found is to fill the pop rivet cavity with CA glue powder
type filler, a drop of CA glue and you have an instant sandable filled pop rivet!
Tommy
6A Ridgetop, TN
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Textor
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 8:24 AM
Subject: RV-List: Filling Pop Rivet Heads??
Morning all!
For flush pop rivets, how is everyone filling them
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First flight of N601RD (RV-4) (08AUG01) |
Dean,
CONGRATULATIONS & WELL DONE !!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
Niantic, CT (Westerly, RI airport)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First flight of N601RD (RV-4) (08AUG01) |
In a message dated 8/28/01 6:23:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com writes:
> Subject: First flight of N601RD (RV-4)
>
>
>
>
>
> After just less than 10 years of steady building, I flew N601RD for the
> first time.
Congrads, it dosen't get much better than that. Trust me on this one, now
that your plane is flying you can start to get to "know it" by multible
short flights and (cowl off) inspections, your squawks will go away quickly.
Happy safe flying
Tim Barnes
Meangreen RV-4
N39TB.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Annual RV Fall Classic Fiyl-In Lebanon,Tn (M54) |
We will be having our Sept 22,rain23, RV Fall Classic at
Lebanon Tn..Mike S from Vans still has some time slots
on the 21st and 23rd for those in need..Air- to- Air Photos
by pro for $50.00.Aircraft judging and awards..
Fuel Discounts and food...Rain date 23th..
For Mike S time slots,the contact is Jimmy Edwards 615-754-2596
E-Mail =edwards_rv6(at)prodigy.net
John McMahon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | RV-9A empennage and wing kit for sale |
I am posting this for a friend who is not on the list. He is helping the
widow of a recently deceased RV builder to dispose of a partially completed
RV-9A kit. The builder had already completed and flown a very nice RV-6 and
had just started on the RV-9A prior to his death:
FOR SALE: RV-9A project: Empennage completed, wing kit started. $6400.
Milwaukee area. (262)593-5470 mailto:thorpe(at)netwurx.net
Please contact Jerry Thorpe directly (Jerry is also building an RV-6).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wentz, Don" <don.wentz(at)intel.com> |
| Subject: | Filling Pop Rivet Heads?? |
The BEST way is to NOT fill pop rivets or the seams where the plastic tips
fit on. You are inviting later unnecessary flaws in your paint. Those are
'natural' parts of your RV and, just like the rest of the rivets, look just
fine if installed cleanly and painted right over.
Just my opinion,
dw RV-6 600hrs
Morning all!
For flush pop rivets, how is everyone filling them? I'm thinking of using
JB Weld for aluminum. Hopefully this will not vibrate out and may???
strengthen the rivet. It is hard to sand. Any thoughts?
Jack
DSM
RV8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bryan" <timbryan(at)oregontrail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weighing the RV-6A |
Bruce,
It sounds like you had a bad experience here. Would you share it for
learning purposes?
RV-6 Slider (N616TB Reserved) Finish kit
Tim Bryan
tim(at)bryantechnology.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 6:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Weighing the RV-6A
>
> Make sure that you chock the wheels and determine who is in charge of the
> operation. I say again, Chock the wheels, Who is the responsible party!
> Chock the wheels!
> Bruce Bell
> Lubbock, Texas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
> To: "Rv-List (E-mail)"
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:59 AM
> Subject: RV-List: Weighing the RV-6A
>
>
> >
> > I'm at the point of weighing my RV-6A. Apart from finding scales, I
> welcome
> > advice from those who have done this before me. What would you do
> > differently if you were to weigh your airplane again?
> >
> > Steve Soule
> > Huntington, Vermont
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> |
Just when my twelve-step program was starting to the working,
Matt gets his addictive product back on the market. :-)
Good job Matt.
Thanks,
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Bell" <dbell(at)manisteenational.com> |
| Subject: | Prop Extension for Sale |
Listers,
I posted or tried to post this I should say the day the list went
down....here is an item I have for sale.....
Added to the list below would be the a crush plate I also will be
selling.....let me know
Doug Bell
8qb
> Hello fellow builders and those guys that are already flying who inspire
us
> to continue.
>
> I have the following item for sale.
>
> 1. A Saber Prop Extension (4"x7" 1/2"Engine, 1/2"prop SAE 2)
> (Vans 2000 catalog priced at $330.00)
>
> 2. One Spool Mounting Bolt Set (6-1/2"x1& 3/4") grip length or 1"
> To bolt spool extension to engine flange
> (Vans 2000 catalog priced at $45.00)
>
> 3. One Prop Bolt Kit (6-1/2"x6&1/2") grip length of 5&3/4"
> To bolt prop to the extension
> (Vans 2000 Catalog priced at $75.00)
>
> Total in Catalog from Vans' is $450.00.....I would entertain an offer of
> less than this and I would pay the shipping.
>
> Reason for Selling:
>
> I have found that with the new 3 blade prop I have from Catto, on my 8 I
> will need the smaller extension. I received this one with my engine and
> prop purchase from Matt Dralle a year and 1/2 ago. This is a large
> extension that is a spool style and Matt was using it on his 4 that is
> underway. It is brand new and looks great. I spoke with Sam Tillman from
> Saber Mfg. yesterday and am in the process of getting what I need.
> Sam did mention that he sells many extensions to Van's, but in the 4 inch,
> Vans gets most of his overseas and he feels this one is of higher quality.
> For what its worth.
>
> On a side note: My thanks to you that flew to Oshkosh and took the time
> to answer the questions and allow the photos from all of us who are
> building. I can't imagine how hard it would be to obtain that type of
info
> if we were building other models. It is amazing the quanity and quality
of
> the rv's that arrive at oshkosh.
>
> Doug Bell Jr.
> Doin the golf thing now
> RV8 in process( by my pops mostly) he is retired
> A little of all hte finishing stuff
> Manistee/Cadillac MI
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Land of Enchantment Fly-in |
Fellow listers
I have a friend in Denver, CO that is searching for a ride to the Las
Cruses NM, Land of Enchantment RV Bash on the weekend of Sept 14-16.
Anybody with a spare seat needing some balast please respond off list.
Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, CO
RV-6A N99PZ
Engine: Aerosport Power O-360-A1A
Prop: Hartzell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Engine Testing ??? |
Hi All,
First, I would like to continue the applause to Matt for all his efforts
on getting the list back up. Thanks again Matt!
Having been interested in alternative aero engines for years, actually
started with trying to find an engine that would fit in a BD-5, I am
looking to the List for a little input and comment.
There has been many discussions on here about the lack of hard data when
it comes to alternative engines. Even ratings for Cert. engines seem to
be in question from time to time.
The main reason some people seem to shy away from these engines is that
there's no real proof that the engine will have the performance and
power that is advertised. H.P., torque, fuel consumption, etc. seem to
be a "hope and pray" kind of thing in most cases.
I'm looking at setting up a "Dyno" that will test all these and many
more perimeters and give hard facts about Firewall forward operations.
Being able to know what the power output at any setting will be, what
the fuel flow is, and even being able to determine what the optimum
P.S.R.U. ratio and or prop should be, will allow for a better performing
and safer airplane.
The Dyno will be able to compare data before and after any
modifications, and prove what works and what doesn't.
Even though I'm pretty excited about this, I'm wondering if there are
those of you that feel this service would be a benefit. The Dyno(s)
we're looking at have the capability of testing just about anything that
has a rotating shaft from 5 H.P. to 800 H.P.
The plan is to eventually have several Dyno's. One in a permanent test
cell for R&D while the other, somewhat mobile, mounted in a trailer so
testing could be done "on site" if need be.
The cost of this equipment and all the peripherals isn't cheap so, I
trying to do a little "market research" to see if it's really needed and
would be used by builders and flyers or if I need to win the lottery
before I get into this. For now, we're looking to keep the service in
Montana or at least in the Pacific Northwest. If the response is great
enough, we are considering moving the shop to or near "airport property".
What do you guy's think?
Jim Duckett, RV-7A N708JD
Performance Engineering
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Weighing the RV-6A |
| From: | Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>Bruce,
>It sounds like you had a bad experience here. Would you share it for
>learning purposes?
>
>
>>
>> Make sure that you chock the wheels and determine who is in charge of the
>> operation. I say again, Chock the wheels, Who is the responsible party!
>> Chock the wheels!
>> Bruce Bell
>> Lubbock, Texas
I'm pretty sure Bruce is referring to the weighing of Terry Cole's RV-6A
in Lubbock, TX.
>Be sure and CHOCK the wheels. Don't let it roll off and bend up the aerlions
>on the T hanger. It can happen. I know. CHOCK THE WHEELS .Terry E. Cole
>N468TC
>
>
The airplane rolled backward in the T hangar and was damaged when it hit
the back wall. I think it was something like wing tip and aileron
damage. Not too bad (easy for me to say).
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | N712CR (RV-8A) Flying |
All,
N712CR (RV-8A) made her maiden flight on August 22 at 9:45 AM from Westerly,
RI airport 3 years and 8 months after receiving our emp kit.
My partner and son Dave deserves most of the credit for the many hours of
work he put in. We both are also very fortunate to have wifes that supported
us.
Thanks also to Van's for a great airplane and support. We also were very
fortunate to belong to an excellent EAA Chapter #334 that always
provided great support.
We also need to express our appreaciation for the RV-List: Matt and all the
members for the many hours giving the list their advice, comments and
responses to questions.
Thanks also to the many members of EAA Chapter #334.
Thanks also for the web sites many of you have setup, including but not
limited to Phil Arter - Sam B - Bunny - etc,etc etc.
Thanks also to Bob Nuckolls - We have the full "Electric Bob" system and it
works great!
We'd also like to thank Mike Segar for excellent training (very highly
recommended) we had last summer and Fred Strucklin for his refresh the
weekend before.
Thanks also to "Corsair" (aka Austin) - many prose that were a great moral
booster - frequestly when we needed it most. One question Austin: how did
you always know when we drilled the wrong hole and had to call Van's for
replacement trim tabs?
Now the flight data:
N712CR is a rocket with it's IO-360 (200hp) and CS. Our painted weight, with
fairings & pants is 1141. She is rock solid during taxi and typical light on
the controls (except the time between power application and about 40 kts
when he the controls are heavy).
Oil temps were in the 80 C range most of the time - During the climb out
after a couple of high speed taxi runs I saw a max oil temp of 95 C. The
second flight (with a lower deck angle about 110 KT climb out - 1700 ft/min
) saw max oil temp of 88 C. While we have a mid time engine (Air-Tec) the
cylinders were overhauled so this may be part of the breakin - we also have
a Positech oil cooler. We will keep the list informed of our testing. During
the second flight a level no flap stall was done - broke at aboout 50 kt -
straight ahead (no wing drop) without buffet. Max cruise speed was 130 KT.
Downwind was flown at 80KT (airspeed not calibrated yet) and 60 KT over the
numbers. Used same numbers on both flights - very good landings.
The GRIN lasts a long time !!!
Those of you still building - keep at it - it's worth the effort.
Thanks again to everyone,
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (Flying)
Niantic, CT (Westerly airport)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Testing ??? |
>
>Hi All,
>First, I would like to continue the applause to Matt for all his efforts
>on getting the list back up. Thanks again Matt!
>
>Having been interested in alternative aero engines for years, actually
>started with trying to find an engine that would fit in a BD-5, I am
>looking to the List for a little input and comment.
>There has been many discussions on here about the lack of hard data when
>it comes to alternative engines. Even ratings for Cert. engines seem to
>be in question from time to time.
>The main reason some people seem to shy away from these engines is that
>there's no real proof that the engine will have the performance and
>power that is advertised. H.P., torque, fuel consumption, etc. seem to
>be a "hope and pray" kind of thing in most cases.
>I'm looking at setting up a "Dyno" that will test all these and many
>more perimeters and give hard facts about Firewall forward operations.
>Being able to know what the power output at any setting will be, what
>the fuel flow is, and even being able to determine what the optimum
>P.S.R.U. ratio and or prop should be, will allow for a better performing
>and safer airplane.
>The Dyno will be able to compare data before and after any
>modifications, and prove what works and what doesn't.
>Even though I'm pretty excited about this, I'm wondering if there are
>those of you that feel this service would be a benefit. The Dyno(s)
>we're looking at have the capability of testing just about anything that
>has a rotating shaft from 5 H.P. to 800 H.P.
>The plan is to eventually have several Dyno's. One in a permanent test
>cell for R&D while the other, somewhat mobile, mounted in a trailer so
>testing could be done "on site" if need be.
>The cost of this equipment and all the peripherals isn't cheap so, I
>trying to do a little "market research" to see if it's really needed and
>would be used by builders and flyers or if I need to win the lottery
>before I get into this. For now, we're looking to keep the service in
>Montana or at least in the Pacific Northwest. If the response is great
>enough, we are considering moving the shop to or near "airport property".
>What do you guy's think?
>
>Jim Duckett, RV-7A N708JD
>Performance Engineering
Jim,
While dyno info would certainly be interesting, and useful to some people,
I don't think the lack of dyno info is the reason why we aren't seeing more
alternative engine installations. I think the biggest issue is simply the
problems and risks involved when sorting out all the ancillary systems
(fuel delivery, ignition, cooling, reduction drives, etc). Problems with
these systems seem to cause most of the "engine" problems with alternative
engines.
As far as the need for a dyno goes, lets not forget that the actual
performance achieved is also a function of the prop efficiency, cooling
drag and weight of the installation. Engine horsepower is only one part of
the equation.
Many alternative engine installers are hoping to save some money over the
cost of a typical aircraft engine installation. Performance is usually not
a major factor in their decision. So, my prediction is that not many of
them would be willing to spend money to use your dyno, unless it was very
cheap.
Good luck,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (engine installation)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Discovery Wings 'Building an RV-8' |
No, you don't want to "remove the Alclad" you just want to scruff it up
slightly so the paint can have a 'tooth' to adhere to...you don't want to
remove the Alclad at all.... if the From the Ground Up program gave that
impression it is in error...just a light scruff with some scotch brite is
enough.
John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Testing ??? |
I'm planning on installing a Jabiru 6000. I think I would be willing to pay
for an independent dyno study of this actual production engine, since I
don't believe the Jabiru guys actually supply all that much data with the
engines.
I think there actually might be a market for an independently-done dyno run
on various variations of production engines, which seem to be nearly
one-of-a-kind items, especially if they have been rebuilt with different
pistons or other modifications, which appears to be more the rule than the
exception in the homebuilt market.
Do you have any idea what order of magnitude price you would have to charge
for such a service?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Duckett [mailto:perfeng(at)3rivers.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:32 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Engine Testing ???
>
>
>
> Hi All,
> First, I would like to continue the applause to Matt for all
> his efforts
> on getting the list back up. Thanks again Matt!
>
> Having been interested in alternative aero engines for years,
> actually
> started with trying to find an engine that would fit in a BD-5, I am
> looking to the List for a little input and comment.
> There has been many discussions on here about the lack of
> hard data when
> it comes to alternative engines. Even ratings for Cert.
> engines seem to
> be in question from time to time.
> The main reason some people seem to shy away from these
> engines is that
> there's no real proof that the engine will have the performance and
> power that is advertised. H.P., torque, fuel consumption,
> etc. seem to
> be a "hope and pray" kind of thing in most cases.
> I'm looking at setting up a "Dyno" that will test all these and many
> more perimeters and give hard facts about Firewall forward
> operations.
> Being able to know what the power output at any setting will be, what
> the fuel flow is, and even being able to determine what the optimum
> P.S.R.U. ratio and or prop should be, will allow for a better
> performing
> and safer airplane.
> The Dyno will be able to compare data before and after any
> modifications, and prove what works and what doesn't.
> Even though I'm pretty excited about this, I'm wondering if there are
> those of you that feel this service would be a benefit. The Dyno(s)
> we're looking at have the capability of testing just about
> anything that
> has a rotating shaft from 5 H.P. to 800 H.P.
> The plan is to eventually have several Dyno's. One in a
> permanent test
> cell for R&D while the other, somewhat mobile, mounted in a
> trailer so
> testing could be done "on site" if need be.
> The cost of this equipment and all the peripherals isn't cheap so, I
> trying to do a little "market research" to see if it's really
> needed and
> would be used by builders and flyers or if I need to win the lottery
> before I get into this. For now, we're looking to keep the
> service in
> Montana or at least in the Pacific Northwest. If the response
> is great
> enough, we are considering moving the shop to or near
> "airport property".
> What do you guy's think?
>
> Jim Duckett, RV-7A N708JD
> Performance Engineering
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | Discovery Wings 'Building an RV-8' |
Just wear rubber gloves and dip the gray scotchbrite into a container of
prep solution then scrub the aluminum surface like your washing a pan. Let
it set a few minutes (don't let it dry) then rinse it off and let it dry.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Discovery Wings 'Building an RV-8'
No, you don't want to "remove the Alclad" you just want to scruff it up
slightly so the paint can have a 'tooth' to adhere to...you don't want to
remove the Alclad at all.... if the From the Ground Up program gave that
impression it is in error...just a light scruff with some scotch brite is
enough.
John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
Listers,
Any one from the Denver area going to Las Cruces
for the 14th and 15th of Sept?
Stew RV4 273SB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Testing ??? |
Kevin,
Thanks for the reply. You make all good points and these are things
that are being considered. Although focusing on Auto Engine R&D, I am
looking at power plants in general. True, some of the reasons folks are
turning to alternative engines is to save a few bucks but, most are
wanting to use something that has a little newer technology in it's
design. Power to weight ratio, maintenance/ rebuild costs as well as
longevity/ reliability seem to be the driving forces. When I compare
the technology in say and IO-360 to a new G.M. Vortec it's like a
Hudson next to a Lexis. Both get the job done and both have there place
in the world. It's just newer technology and better performance seem to
shine through, and yes, the life time cost of operation.
If the manufactures (Lyc., Cont., Etc.) would provide us with something
newer than a 50 year old design at an affordable price this might be a
mute point. When I can build a 200 H.P. firewall forward auto
application for half of what a certified engine costs and maintain and
rebuild it for far less than half of it's counterpart, an alternative
engine starts looking pretty sweet.
I agree that there are other factors in an aircraft's performance other
than power output of its engine but hey, if it wasn't such a big factor
in the equation we'd be flying Briggs & Stratton's with multiple ratio
redrives.
The installation differences are not all that difficult to overcome.
Sure the Aircraft Engine is first, last and always made for aircraft
applications. Were with an Auto Conversion you're faced with size and
fit in some applications but, it's called planning and performance
requirements of the airframe and the builder. Let's face it, trying to
hang a IO- 540 on a Kit Fox or stuffing a 512 G.M in a Long E-Z is not
really practical.
I'm not trying to compare apples to oranges here or flame anyone for
they're preferences on engines. I just feel there are those that try to
fill in all the blanks in all the equations with hard data rather than
take the figures we get in "hangar flying" with our buddies. Sure, the
Dyno will not be able to reproduce every environmental characteristic of
the engine while flying but, we will be able to provide most if not all
the data folks seem to be concerned about.
Jim D.
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Hi All,
>> First, I would like to continue the applause to Matt for all his efforts
>> on getting the list back up. Thanks again Matt!
>>
>> Having been interested in alternative aero engines for years, actually
>> started with trying to find an engine that would fit in a BD-5, I am
>> looking to the List for a little input and comment.
>> There has been many discussions on here about the lack of hard data when
>> it comes to alternative engines. Even ratings for Cert. engines seem to
>> be in question from time to time.
>> The main reason some people seem to shy away from these engines is that
>> there's no real proof that the engine will have the performance and
>> power that is advertised. H.P., torque, fuel consumption, etc. seem to
>> be a "hope and pray" kind of thing in most cases.
>> I'm looking at setting up a "Dyno" that will test all these and many
>> more perimeters and give hard facts about Firewall forward operations.
>> Being able to know what the power output at any setting will be, what
>> the fuel flow is, and even being able to determine what the optimum
>> P.S.R.U. ratio and or prop should be, will allow for a better performing
>> and safer airplane.
>> The Dyno will be able to compare data before and after any
>> modifications, and prove what works and what doesn't.
>> Even though I'm pretty excited about this, I'm wondering if there are
>> those of you that feel this service would be a benefit. The Dyno(s)
>> we're looking at have the capability of testing just about anything that
>> has a rotating shaft from 5 H.P. to 800 H.P.
>> The plan is to eventually have several Dyno's. One in a permanent test
>> cell for R&D while the other, somewhat mobile, mounted in a trailer so
>> testing could be done "on site" if need be.
>> The cost of this equipment and all the peripherals isn't cheap so, I
>> trying to do a little "market research" to see if it's really needed and
>> would be used by builders and flyers or if I need to win the lottery
>> before I get into this. For now, we're looking to keep the service in
>> Montana or at least in the Pacific Northwest. If the response is great
>> enough, we are considering moving the shop to or near "airport property".
>> What do you guy's think?
>>
>> Jim Duckett, RV-7A N708JD
>> Performance Engineering
>
>
>
> Jim,
>
> While dyno info would certainly be interesting, and useful to some people,
> I don't think the lack of dyno info is the reason why we aren't seeing more
> alternative engine installations. I think the biggest issue is simply the
> problems and risks involved when sorting out all the ancillary systems
> (fuel delivery, ignition, cooling, reduction drives, etc). Problems with
> these systems seem to cause most of the "engine" problems with alternative
> engines.
>
> As far as the need for a dyno goes, lets not forget that the actual
> performance achieved is also a function of the prop efficiency, cooling
> drag and weight of the installation. Engine horsepower is only one part of
> the equation.
>
> Many alternative engine installers are hoping to save some money over the
> cost of a typical aircraft engine installation. Performance is usually not
> a major factor in their decision. So, my prediction is that not many of
> them would be willing to spend money to use your dyno, unless it was very
> cheap.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (engine installation)
> khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
> Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
> http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
Hi Stew,
What is the latest on your fuel flow problem?
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
----- Original Message -----
From: <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 11:44 AM
Subject: RV-List: Las Cruces
>
> Listers,
> Any one from the Denver area going to Las Cruces
> for the 14th and 15th of Sept?
> Stew RV4 273SB
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
| Subject: | Exhaust pipe hangers |
Just as the RV-List went out someone was going to post his exhaust system
hangers. I am still interested in that information.
Best regards,
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
Finishing all the little details?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: F1 rocket fit for sale |
F1 rocket kit for sale
Kit is partionally finished, excellent workmanship as the work was done by
team rocket.
Kit includes complete RV8 tail. Just has to be mounted and finished.
Kit also includes the following
Ameri king ELT
Vetterman Stainless exhust
heat shielding
areoflash strobes
I have pictures that can be emailed to anyone. I have about 35000 into the
kit. I need to make up for a short fall in income since i am owed 30,000 by
a company that went bankrupt. Please email me or call for details on the
kit.
Chris wilcox
(920) 858-7561
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A empennage and wing kit for sale |
To anyone considering this purchase:
I will testify to the quality of John's work. The workmanship on his -6 was
excellent, he would have won awards if he had it judged. If I were in the
market for a 9A project I wouldn't hesitate to buy this one.
Jeff Point
-6 fuse kit arrives friday!
Milwaukee, WI
C J Heitman wrote:
>
> I am posting this for a friend who is not on the list. He is helping the
> widow of a recently deceased RV builder to dispose of a partially completed
> RV-9A kit. The builder had already completed and flown a very nice RV-6 and
> had just started on the RV-9A prior to his death:
>
> FOR SALE: RV-9A project: Empennage completed, wing kit started. $6400.
> Milwaukee area. (262)593-5470 mailto:thorpe(at)netwurx.net
>
> Please contact Jerry Thorpe directly (Jerry is also building an RV-6).
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ray sheffield" <1052a(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Filling Pop Rivet Heads?? |
I used super fil and wiped off the excess with thinner before it cured.
ray rv6a flying
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Textor" <pincjt(at)ix.netcom.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 9:18 AM
Subject: RV-List: Filling Pop Rivet Heads??
>
> Morning all!
> For flush pop rivets, how is everyone filling them? I'm thinking of using
> JB Weld for aluminum. Hopefully this will not vibrate out and may???
> strengthen the rivet. It is hard to sand. Any thoughts?
> Jack
> DSM
> RV8
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Mounting wings on an RV-6A |
I am ready to mount my wings on my 6A. As the gear mounting brackets
will have little or no support after the false spar is removed and
before the actual wing spar is bolted on, it appears that the wing
mounting should not be done with weight on the main landing gear . Can
anybody suggest ways to move/support/level the fuselage prior to and
during the wing mounting exercise.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A QB
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Haywire" <haywire(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Engine Testing ??? |
Hi Jim;
I'm currently building an building an RV-9 with a Mazda 13B. While cost
is
a large factor in my decision to use the rotary, I would say that
reliability is the #1 reason followed by performance as the #2 reason
(please, any Lyco boys, I'm not interested, so save your flames). So I am
defiantly interested in knowing actual HP. How intere$ted? I guess it
depends how much $$$. I can appreciate the large cost to set up something
like this, and would expect to pay a fair price. Any idea yet how much that
would be?
I must confess that I have very little knowledge as to how a Dyno works,
but I have been under the impression that the engine is mounted on a test
stand. If this is true, what are the chances of designing one that could be
used with the engine mounted on the airplane. I would be most interested in
knowing the HP at the PSRU output, with engine set-up as in it's actual use.
I wouldn't be interested in hauling my engine all the way to Montana to
have it Dyno'd, but I would fly it down there and have it done. If you
hauled a mobile unit to fly-ins and could dyno an engine without having to
remove more than the prop & cowl, then you would probably do quite well,
especially as alternative engines are becoming more popular. After all the
work of installing an alternative engine, most guys will want to know what
kind of HP that they're getting. Anybody installing an auto conversion would
be something of a gearhead, and gearheads just need to know that kind of
info.
S. Todd Bartrim
13B RV-9
C-FSTB (reserved)
Fuselage
> Thanks for the reply. You make all good points and these are things
> that are being considered. Although focusing on Auto Engine R&D, I am
> looking at power plants in general. True, some of the reasons folks are
> turning to alternative engines is to save a few bucks but, most are
> wanting to use something that has a little newer technology in it's
> design. Power to weight ratio, maintenance/ rebuild costs as well as
> longevity/ reliability seem to be the driving forces. When I compare
> the technology in say and IO-360 to a new G.M. Vortec it's like a
> Hudson next to a Lexis. Both get the job done and both have there place
> in the world. It's just newer technology and better performance seem to
> shine through, and yes, the life time cost of operation.
> If the manufactures (Lyc., Cont., Etc.) would provide us with something
> newer than a 50 year old design at an affordable price this might be a
> mute point. When I can build a 200 H.P. firewall forward auto
> application for half of what a certified engine costs and maintain and
> rebuild it for far less than half of it's counterpart, an alternative
> engine starts looking pretty sweet.
> I agree that there are other factors in an aircraft's performance other
> than power output of its engine but hey, if it wasn't such a big factor
> in the equation we'd be flying Briggs & Stratton's with multiple ratio
> redrives.
> The installation differences are not all that difficult to overcome.
> Sure the Aircraft Engine is first, last and always made for aircraft
> applications. Were with an Auto Conversion you're faced with size and
> fit in some applications but, it's called planning and performance
> requirements of the airframe and the builder. Let's face it, trying to
> hang a IO- 540 on a Kit Fox or stuffing a 512 G.M in a Long E-Z is not
> really practical.
> I'm not trying to compare apples to oranges here or flame anyone for
> they're preferences on engines. I just feel there are those that try to
> fill in all the blanks in all the equations with hard data rather than
> take the figures we get in "hangar flying" with our buddies. Sure, the
> Dyno will not be able to reproduce every environmental characteristic of
> the engine while flying but, we will be able to provide most if not all
> the data folks seem to be concerned about.
>
> Jim D.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Mounting wings on an RV-6A |
I made a cradle and supported the fuselage under the F-604 bulkhead with a
portable jack stand under the tail. The cradle consisted of a 2x6 about 6"
less wide than the fuselage, with a "V" sawed into it to match the dihedral
of the lower fuselage at the F-604. I made supports for the 2x6 and jacked
on the 2x6 itself to raise the airplane. I don't ever want to do it again.
These wings will never come off again.
While you have the wings on, make sure you layout the holes in the lower
fuselage skin where the skin overlaps the lower wing. You will need to
remove the wings to rivet platenuts into this location.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
in search of airplane scales
-----Original Message-----
I am ready to mount my wings on my 6A. As the gear mounting brackets
will have little or no support after the false spar is removed and
before the actual wing spar is bolted on, it appears that the wing
mounting should not be done with weight on the main landing gear . Can
anybody suggest ways to move/support/level the fuselage prior to and
during the wing mounting exercise.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
TEST
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust pipe hangers |
Bruce and others who were interested in the exhaust hanger pics. My daughter
Andrea, has started a web site for "Casper" (our RV6). It's at:
www.geocities.com/garrysrv6.
The hanger pictures are on page two of the pictures. The rubber hose is
MIL-H-6000-8, but any heat resistant medium stiff hose will work. The large
area washers (fender washers) are curved so that they won't dig into the
hose, when you tighten the bolts (AN3), which hold it all together.
Larry Vetterman changed to Adell clamps, instead of using the bolts, on the
hangers, he now supplies with his exhaust system.
Garry, "Caspers Dad"
25.8 hours, going to Homecoming.
A big "THANKS MATT" for getting "The List" back up and running.
Bruce Bell wrote:
>
> Just as the RV-List went out someone was going to post his exhaust system
> hangers. I am still interested in that information.
> Best regards,
> Bruce Bell
> Lubbock, Texas
> Finishing all the little details?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <nauga(at)brick.net> |
| Subject: | Stupid fluid fittings question |
OK, so I'm running fuel, oil, and brake lines
all over the cockpit. When using an angle
fitting like the AN822, how do you adjust the angle?
Seems like in almost every case to get the fitting
pointed in the direction I want it's either too loose
to hold or so tight I'm afraid I'm going to strip the
fitting. No jam nut, so what am I missing here?
Dave 'fitting a throw' Hyde
nauga(at)brick.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mounting wings on an RV-6A |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
> While you have the wings on, make sure you layout the holes in the
> lower
> fuselage skin where the skin overlaps the lower wing. You will need
> to
> remove the wings to rivet platenuts into this location.
>
****************
Steve:
Should I pre drill the holes in the wing flange & can I then back drill
from the top of the wing??
I think the pattern should be the edge of the flange.
Don Jordan - N6DJ - 6A - Arlington , TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | More Dyno answers |
Listers,
Thanks to all of you that have answered my query about interest in dyno
engine testing so far. The response has been impressive and I hope more
of you will add your input.
To answer some of the key questions that have been raised so far here
goes....
The plan is to start with a "mobile" type dyno cell set up in a
trailer. The "Absorber" portion of the dyno will have the capability of
mounting on the prop extension or direct to the flywheel depending on
application. The engines will be able to be tested either installed or
removed from the aircraft. We're working on designs for longer prop
extensions so if wanted, the cowlings could remain on also. Later, a
fixed Test Cell in the shop will be built for primarily R&D testing and
land racers.
Right now the average price of the testing is "guesstimated" to run
between $350.00 and $500.00.
This will include set-up, base-line run, tuning and tweaking, and the
actual test run.
All data retrieved will be on file so you'll be able to compare any
modifications you might do or to determine how tired the "Ol' Mill" is
getting.
Jim D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stupid fluid fittings question |
--- nauga(at)brick.net wrote:
>
> OK, so I'm running fuel, oil, and brake lines
> all over the cockpit. When using an angle
> fitting like the AN822, how do you adjust the angle?
> Seems like in almost every case to get the fitting
> pointed in the direction I want it's either too loose
> to hold or so tight I'm afraid I'm going to strip the
> fitting. No jam nut, so what am I missing here?
Hey, Dave. Not such a stupid question - I just had this conversation
with Chris Good after taking a look at his web site.
He says he used thread lube and turned them until they were tight, and
if they weren't pointing the right way he continued tightening them
until they were.
Makes me nervous thinking about, for instance, cracking the housing on
the fuel flow sensor... or a brake actuator, but he apparently had no
problems. Perhaps the aluminum of an AN fitting will squish before
breaking a cast, certainly a machined, part
Guess I'll go out and tighten down some elbows...
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Testing ??? |
I am going to use an aluminum blocked, aluminum headed 4.3 chevy v6. I
am in the process of looking for someone in the New Jersey area to do a
4 hour or so dyno test. Casual looking has found nothing. A harder look
to follow. I plan to run my engine on the ground for at least 4 hours
before doing the dyno thing. Montana is a long way away. Anyone know of
someone in the Jersey area?
Barry Pote RV9a Chevy powered
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | The First 10 Hours on N601RD |
| From: | pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com |
08/28/2001 06:29:10 PM
I have now accumulated about 10 hours on my -4. To date, everything has
gone fairly smoothly. The only major squawk was by B&C alternator hitting
the lower cowl at shut-down and/or start-up. The pulley on the alternator
cut into the nomex honeycomb on the cowl. It didn't cut completely through
the cowl, but still will require some glassing on the inside. I fixed the
problem by replacing the drive belt with one that is 1" shorter than that
supplied with the alternator. I had to also shorten the tensioning arm by
1" to accommodate the new belt. Of course, replacing the belt required
removing the prop which, with a constant speed prop, is quite a pain.
Oil temperature is stable at 180-185 deg F. The highest I have seen so far
is 189 during a climb to 6000 feet at about 85 deg. surface ambient.
Cylinder head temperatures run between 290 and 315. I am still breaking in
the engine at 24 squared, full rich, at a nominal 3000 feet of altitude.
As I start to lean, the temperatures will likely climb. At 24 squared and
3000 feet, I seem to cruise between 160 and 165 knots. I have yet to
perform any accurate airspeed measurements. Rate of climb at take-off
through 3000 feet seems to vary between 2000 and 2500 fpm depending on
temperature, fuel quantity, etc.
I have done stalls with and without flaps. It stalls gently, with both
wings stalling at the same time, at about 50kts with flaps. I am still not
used to the pitch sensitivity of this aircraft. If I am not paying close
attention, I gain or loose 200-300 feet before I notice it.
At my first flight, the Bedford (MA) tower told me my transponder was not
working. I spent $65 at the local avionics shop to have them tell me it
does work. I have had no problems on subsequent flights. I have installed
a Sennheiser noise-cancelling headset - it makes a huge difference.
Sometimes, just for fun, I turn it off in flight to remember what it sounds
like.
The Lasar electronic ignition is working flawlessly, so far. During
initial run-up tests, I did have to replace the controller box, and one
magneto to get everything working properly. One CHT transducer is behaving
erratically. A single call to Electronics International resulted in
getting one shipped to me at no charge.
Good luck everybody - and keep building!
Dean Pichon
Arlington, MA
Tweaking and painting left to do
**** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of
Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain
confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee
only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not
the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible.****
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stupid fluid fittings question |
Guys,
Just wanted to confirm the notion of getting them tight, then continuing
until they point the right way. I have had several small leaks in brake and
oil fittings and all of them have been NPT thread fittings where an
additional turn was cranked in to solve the problem. Definitely use some
lubricant!
Randy Lervold
www.rv-8.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Thompson" <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stupid fluid fittings question
>
> --- nauga(at)brick.net wrote:
> >
> > OK, so I'm running fuel, oil, and brake lines
> > all over the cockpit. When using an angle
> > fitting like the AN822, how do you adjust the angle?
> > Seems like in almost every case to get the fitting
> > pointed in the direction I want it's either too loose
> > to hold or so tight I'm afraid I'm going to strip the
> > fitting. No jam nut, so what am I missing here?
>
>
> Hey, Dave. Not such a stupid question - I just had this conversation
> with Chris Good after taking a look at his web site.
>
> He says he used thread lube and turned them until they were tight, and
> if they weren't pointing the right way he continued tightening them
> until they were.
>
> Makes me nervous thinking about, for instance, cracking the housing on
> the fuel flow sensor... or a brake actuator, but he apparently had no
> problems. Perhaps the aluminum of an AN fitting will squish before
> breaking a cast, certainly a machined, part
>
> Guess I'll go out and tighten down some elbows...
>
> Mike Thompson
> Austin, TX
> -6 N140RV (Reserved)
> Firewall Forward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The First 10 Hours on N601RD |
Cylinder head temps of 290 - 315 don't sound right. Are you sure about the
accuracy?
Mike
>
> I have now accumulated about 10 hours on my -4. To date, everything has
> gone fairly smoothly. The only major squawk was by B&C alternator hitting
> the lower cowl at shut-down and/or start-up. The pulley on the alternator
> cut into the nomex honeycomb on the cowl. It didn't cut completely
through
> the cowl, but still will require some glassing on the inside. I fixed the
> problem by replacing the drive belt with one that is 1" shorter than that
> supplied with the alternator. I had to also shorten the tensioning arm by
> 1" to accommodate the new belt. Of course, replacing the belt required
> removing the prop which, with a constant speed prop, is quite a pain.
>
> Oil temperature is stable at 180-185 deg F. The highest I have seen so
far
> is 189 during a climb to 6000 feet at about 85 deg. surface ambient.
> Cylinder head temperatures run between 290 and 315. I am still breaking
in
> the engine at 24 squared, full rich, at a nominal 3000 feet of altitude.
> As I start to lean, the temperatures will likely climb. At 24 squared and
> 3000 feet, I seem to cruise between 160 and 165 knots. I have yet to
> perform any accurate airspeed measurements. Rate of climb at take-off
> through 3000 feet seems to vary between 2000 and 2500 fpm depending on
> temperature, fuel quantity, etc.
>
> I have done stalls with and without flaps. It stalls gently, with both
> wings stalling at the same time, at about 50kts with flaps. I am still
not
> used to the pitch sensitivity of this aircraft. If I am not paying close
> attention, I gain or loose 200-300 feet before I notice it.
>
> At my first flight, the Bedford (MA) tower told me my transponder was not
> working. I spent $65 at the local avionics shop to have them tell me it
> does work. I have had no problems on subsequent flights. I have
installed
> a Sennheiser noise-cancelling headset - it makes a huge difference.
> Sometimes, just for fun, I turn it off in flight to remember what it
sounds
> like.
>
> The Lasar electronic ignition is working flawlessly, so far. During
> initial run-up tests, I did have to replace the controller box, and one
> magneto to get everything working properly. One CHT transducer is
behaving
> erratically. A single call to Electronics International resulted in
> getting one shipped to me at no charge.
>
> Good luck everybody - and keep building!
>
> Dean Pichon
> Arlington, MA
> Tweaking and painting left to do
> **** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of
> Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain
> confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee
> only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not
> the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible.****
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Richardson Jr." <ray(at)powersportaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Portable Engine Testing |
Powersport has already built a portable engine
prop dino test stand. We have used it in the development
of our 215 hp rotary.
We are using the same mount design as we fly with
in our RV-6A.
The stand has allowed us to run our engines at
5000-6000 rpm, with full prop blast for 8 hours straight
day after day, even the IFR days
Stand is also used for a 4 hour break-in of all
new engines before shipping
Only the eccentric shaft is turning at this speed. The internal rotors
are geared 3 to 1, our reduction drive is 2.29 from the
eccentric shaft to the prop.
EXAMPLE
at eccentric shaft rpm of 5500
internal engine rotors rpm are 1822
our prop rpm would be 2401
Our testing stand has also been used for torsional
viberation testing for our 215 hp 2 rotor and a 376 hp turbo'ed
3 rotor engine, and our dry sump systems for 2 and 3
rotor engines.
We have not tested any Lycomings yet, but we could.
check it out at www.powersportaviation.com
click under testing, also click on new updates
Ray Richardson
At 01:41 PM 8/28/01 , you wrote:
>
>Hi Jim;
> I'm currently building an building an RV-9 with a Mazda 13B. While
cost is
>a large factor in my decision to use the rotary, I would say that
>reliability is the #1 reason followed by performance as the #2 reason
>(please, any Lyco boys, I'm not interested, so save your flames). So I am
>defiantly interested in knowing actual HP. How intere$ted? I guess it
>depends how much $$$. I can appreciate the large cost to set up something
>like this, and would expect to pay a fair price. Any idea yet how much that
>would be?
> I must confess that I have very little knowledge as to how a Dyno
works,
>but I have been under the impression that the engine is mounted on a test
>stand. If this is true, what are the chances of designing one that could be
>used with the engine mounted on the airplane. I would be most interested in
>knowing the HP at the PSRU output, with engine set-up as in it's actual use.
> I wouldn't be interested in hauling my engine all the way to
Montana to
>have it Dyno'd, but I would fly it down there and have it done. If you
>hauled a mobile unit to fly-ins and could dyno an engine without having to
>remove more than the prop & cowl, then you would probably do quite well,
>especially as alternative engines are becoming more popular. After all the
>work of installing an alternative engine, most guys will want to know what
>kind of HP that they're getting. Anybody installing an auto conversion would
>be something of a gearhead, and gearheads just need to know that kind of
>info.
>S. Todd Bartrim
>13B RV-9
>C-FSTB (reserved)
>Fuselage
>
>
>> Thanks for the reply. You make all good points and these are things
>> that are being considered. Although focusing on Auto Engine R&D, I am
>> looking at power plants in general. True, some of the reasons folks are
>> turning to alternative engines is to save a few bucks but, most are
>> wanting to use something that has a little newer technology in it's
>> design. Power to weight ratio, maintenance/ rebuild costs as well as
>> longevity/ reliability seem to be the driving forces. When I compare
>> the technology in say and IO-360 to a new G.M. Vortec it's like a
>> Hudson next to a Lexis. Both get the job done and both have there place
>> in the world. It's just newer technology and better performance seem to
>> shine through, and yes, the life time cost of operation.
>> If the manufactures (Lyc., Cont., Etc.) would provide us with something
>> newer than a 50 year old design at an affordable price this might be a
>> mute point. When I can build a 200 H.P. firewall forward auto
>> application for half of what a certified engine costs and maintain and
>> rebuild it for far less than half of it's counterpart, an alternative
>> engine starts looking pretty sweet.
>> I agree that there are other factors in an aircraft's performance other
>> than power output of its engine but hey, if it wasn't such a big factor
>> in the equation we'd be flying Briggs & Stratton's with multiple ratio
>> redrives.
>> The installation differences are not all that difficult to overcome.
>> Sure the Aircraft Engine is first, last and always made for aircraft
>> applications. Were with an Auto Conversion you're faced with size and
>> fit in some applications but, it's called planning and performance
>> requirements of the airframe and the builder. Let's face it, trying to
>> hang a IO- 540 on a Kit Fox or stuffing a 512 G.M in a Long E-Z is not
>> really practical.
>> I'm not trying to compare apples to oranges here or flame anyone for
>> they're preferences on engines. I just feel there are those that try to
>> fill in all the blanks in all the equations with hard data rather than
>> take the figures we get in "hangar flying" with our buddies. Sure, the
>> Dyno will not be able to reproduce every environmental characteristic of
>> the engine while flying but, we will be able to provide most if not all
>> the data folks seem to be concerned about.
>>
>> Jim D.
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stuff for sale: |
pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com wrote:
> Wing cradle on wheels - good for storing and moving wings in the workshop -
> free to whomever wants to pick it up in Bedford, MA
Hi Dean,
Congrats on getting your -4 in the air! I know it's been a long road. How did
things finally work out with the FSDO?
I'll take the wing cradle if it's still available. I'm looking forward to
seeing your flying machine one of these days.
Back to mounting my engine...
Regards,
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Sears" <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Annual RV Fall Classic Fiyl-In Lebanon,Tn (M54) |
I thought this event was the first weekend of October. You guys moving it
back a little to maybe get some warmer weather?
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
> We will be having our Sept 22,rain23, RV Fall Classic at
> Lebanon Tn..Mike S from Vans still has some time slots
> on the 21st and 23rd for those in need..Air- to- Air Photos
> by pro for $50.00.Aircraft judging and awards..
> Fuel Discounts and food...Rain date 23th..
> For Mike S time slots,the contact is Jimmy Edwards 615-754-2596
> E-Mail =edwards_rv6(at)prodigy.net
> John McMahon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | VG testing results |
I've been waiting 2 weeks to put this out. Thanks Matt for perservering
and getting the list back up.
Over the past couple of weeks I've been flying my 6A with the Micro
Aerodynamics VGs temporarily installed. Here are some test results and
some observations.
Mind you, that these results are NOT being done with calibrated instruments
or in any way which would be accepted by professional test pilots. They
are simply seat of the pants observations and the best indications I could
take by simply reading my standard instruments.
Stick Response:
The very first thing you realize, is that suddenly your stick response in
roll is far more sensitive than without VGs; at all speeds. Almost to the
point of being "twitchy" The slightest movement or bump on the stick sends
you into a 10-15 degree roll. At first this was disconcerting, but after
2-3 flights you just get used to a new feel and naturally fly as smoothly
as before. There is no way this "twitchiness" seems like you have less
control or that the plane is less stable or less safe. On the contrary,
once you are used to the lighter feel, the amount of control percieved is
improved. Some will say that it is hard to believe that an RV can have a
lighter control feel. It does; and this is by far, the greatest difference
the VGs produce.
Stall Speed and Characteristics:
A disapointment. Advertisements for VGs suggest an 7-8 mph reduction in
stall speed with a noticeable buffet occurring 3-4 mph before the actual
stall. Neither was my experience. Without VGs at 11,000' stall occurs at
54 mph IAS. Stall buffet is non-existant. With VGs stall occurs at 52 mph
IAS (a 2 mph improvement) A short buffet occurs immenently before the
stall; .....flying ......flying bump-bump-drop. There is nowhere near
enough time to react to the buffet to prevent the stall or to be able to
hold the plane in the buffet without stalling. The new feeling is that the
plane just shakes itself into the stall as the nose drops, rather than just
a clean drop. Otherwise as before, recovery is simply releasing back
pressure, with little if any loss of altitude, and with no tendency to drop
a wing.
I consider this a dissapointment because my main reason for wanting VGs
was to be able to considerably slow my True Airspeeds at the high altitudes
I fly at to hopefully offer a more survivable landing in the event of a
power failure.
Cruise Speeds:
This has turned into a difficult and somewhat confusing thing to measure.
A single test prior to installing the VGs indicated 171 IAS at full
throttle at 10,000' msl (12,300' density altitude), after letting the
airspeed settle for 3-4 minutes at max power setting. A first similar test
with VGs with the temperature only slightly higher (12,600' DA) yielded
only 162 mph IAS. A 9 mph loss. "What; -- a 9 mph speed loss for a 2 mph
stall gain??" I was ready to rip off the VGs that minute. But I wanted to
explore the other changes a bit more, so I didn't. The next flight Vmax
with the VGs jumped to 169. I could live with that. The next flight
yielded Vmax at about 164, and then back to 169, then down again, then up
again. I can't seem to get a consistent reading even though flights are in
the same conditions and same weights. I'm going to pull the VGs off this
weekend and re-test without them for Vmax and consistency. I'm just as
curious to see if the consistency returns than in the actual top speed.
Take Off:
I have no actual measurements here, and since my technique varies, so must
the results. But; from feel; "Before I'd barely be struggling into the
air by the windsock. Now at the windsock, I'm firmly in the air and
beginning to enter a stable climb. What is more, the actual lift off seems
more positive with less tendency for the plane to bobble around for the
first couple of seconds looking for airspeed. How's that for a scientific
appraisal? I told you, this is a seat-of-the-pants report.
Approach:
Without VGs and with full back trim, I would still need a noticeable amount
of back pressure to maintain an 80 mph approach. With VGs and full back
trim, the approach is stabilized at 78-79 IAS. I never considered this an
issue before, but this it is a nice improvement.
Landing Flare:
I was warned that the plane would float considerably more than normal. If
it does, I didn't notice it.
Climb and Descent Rates:
I measured rates with the VGs on temporarily but still need to get those
numbers in similar conditions with the VGs off. I'll report that later.
Turbulence:
The VG manufacturer says that the VGs will smooth the plane out in light
choppy conditions. This is a difficult, if not impossible thing to measure
as every flight is different. All I can say is that every flight I've
taken with the VGs on was smooth and comfortable. Coincidence - Perhaps.
An effect of the VGs - who knows.
Overall:
I'm not sure yet. I want to repeat some non VG tests. I do like the
lighter feel and the firmer handling at low speeds. A 2 mph reduction in
Vso is an improvement, albeit a slight one. However a 9 mph reduction in
cruise would be unacceptable. Some more testing will decide whether they
get epoxied on permanently or end up for 1/2 price on eBay.
I'll let you know.
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
http://buildersbooks.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Solecki <engine(at)mail.rosecom.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: More Dyno answers |
Jim Duckett wrote:
>
> Listers,
> Thanks to all of you that have answered my query about interest in dyno
> engine testing so far. The response has been impressive and I hope more
> of you will add your input.
> To answer some of the key questions that have been raised so far here
> goes....
> The plan is to start with a "mobile" type dyno cell set up in a
> trailer. The "Absorber" portion of the dyno will have the capability of
> mounting on the prop extension or direct to the flywheel depending on
> application. The engines will be able to be tested either installed or
> removed from the aircraft. We're working on designs for longer prop
> extensions so if wanted, the cowlings could remain on also. Later, a
> fixed Test Cell in the shop will be built for primarily R&D testing and
> land racers.
> Right now the average price of the testing is "guesstimated" to run
> between $350.00 and $500.00.
> This will include set-up, base-line run, tuning and tweaking, and the
> actual test run.
> All data retrieved will be on file so you'll be able to compare any
> modifications you might do or to determine how tired the "Ol' Mill" is
> getting.
>
> Jim D.
>
> With your mobile setup I'm curious how you're going take up the torque
> reaction from the engine with a prop extention driving your absorber?
> Also, how are going to cool the dyno?
John Solecki
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The First 10 Hours on N601RD |
Mike, why do you think that is not right? 300 is about where mine
runs in cruise.
Jerry
Mike Nellis wrote:
>
>
> Cylinder head temps of 290 - 315 don't sound right. Are you sure about the
> accuracy?
>
> Mike
>
> >
> > I have now accumulated about 10 hours on my -4. To date, everything has
> > gone fairly smoothly. The only major squawk was by B&C alternator hitting
> > the lower cowl at shut-down and/or start-up. The pulley on the alternator
> > cut into the nomex honeycomb on the cowl. It didn't cut completely
> through
> > the cowl, but still will require some glassing on the inside. I fixed the
> > problem by replacing the drive belt with one that is 1" shorter than that
> > supplied with the alternator. I had to also shorten the tensioning arm by
> > 1" to accommodate the new belt. Of course, replacing the belt required
> > removing the prop which, with a constant speed prop, is quite a pain.
> >
> > Oil temperature is stable at 180-185 deg F. The highest I have seen so
> far
> > is 189 during a climb to 6000 feet at about 85 deg. surface ambient.
> > Cylinder head temperatures run between 290 and 315. I am still breaking
> in
> > the engine at 24 squared, full rich, at a nominal 3000 feet of altitude.
> > As I start to lean, the temperatures will likely climb. At 24 squared and
> > 3000 feet, I seem to cruise between 160 and 165 knots. I have yet to
> > perform any accurate airspeed measurements. Rate of climb at take-off
> > through 3000 feet seems to vary between 2000 and 2500 fpm depending on
> > temperature, fuel quantity, etc.
> >
> > I have done stalls with and without flaps. It stalls gently, with both
> > wings stalling at the same time, at about 50kts with flaps. I am still
> not
> > used to the pitch sensitivity of this aircraft. If I am not paying close
> > attention, I gain or loose 200-300 feet before I notice it.
> >
> > At my first flight, the Bedford (MA) tower told me my transponder was not
> > working. I spent $65 at the local avionics shop to have them tell me it
> > does work. I have had no problems on subsequent flights. I have
> installed
> > a Sennheiser noise-cancelling headset - it makes a huge difference.
> > Sometimes, just for fun, I turn it off in flight to remember what it
> sounds
> > like.
> >
> > The Lasar electronic ignition is working flawlessly, so far. During
> > initial run-up tests, I did have to replace the controller box, and one
> > magneto to get everything working properly. One CHT transducer is
> behaving
> > erratically. A single call to Electronics International resulted in
> > getting one shipped to me at no charge.
> >
> > Good luck everybody - and keep building!
> >
> > Dean Pichon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Burch" <rv6man(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VG testing results |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:32 PM
Subject: RV-List: VG testing results
I would like to note that this kit is different than the kit sold
by Larry Vetterman. I mention this because the results are
depended on VG location.Terry B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paulbaird(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Cleco Rivet gun parts |
Does anyone know where I can get parts for my Cleco 2E Rivet gun?
Thanks,
Paul Baird 90355
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Due to the considerable discussion on the list (prior to its downtime)
concerning angle of attack indicators, my interest was piqued to the
point of ordering an LRI from Al Mojzisik. The article detailing the
installation and flight tests of the Lift Reserve Indicator in my RV-6
has been published:
http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve.htm
Bottom line............I like it! Hopefully this review will fill in
some of the gaps for builders who have considered this instrument.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 310 hrs)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: VG testing results |
>
>
>Stall Speed and Characteristics:
>A disapointment. Advertisements for VGs suggest an 7-8 mph reduction in
>stall speed with a noticeable buffet occurring 3-4 mph before the actual
>stall. Neither was my experience. Without VGs at 11,000' stall occurs at
>54 mph IAS. Stall buffet is non-existant. With VGs stall occurs at 52 mph
>IAS (a 2 mph improvement) A short buffet occurs immenently before the
>stall; .....flying ......flying bump-bump-drop. There is nowhere near
>enough time to react to the buffet to prevent the stall or to be able to
>hold the plane in the buffet without stalling. The new feeling is that the
>plane just shakes itself into the stall as the nose drops, rather than just
>a clean drop. Otherwise as before, recovery is simply releasing back
>pressure, with little if any loss of altitude, and with no tendency to drop
>a wing.
> I consider this a dissapointment because my main reason for wanting VGs
>was to be able to considerably slow my True Airspeeds at the high altitudes
>I fly at to hopefully offer a more survivable landing in the event of a
>power failure.
The results will almost certainly vary depending on how far aft of the
leading edge the VGs are installed. I suppose they came with mounting
instructions - is there any chance the instructions could have been
interpreted differently? It might be worthwhile moving them a bit fore or
aft and trying again.
Anyway, airspeed systems are generally very inaccurate at the stall, with
errors that change wildly with changes in airspeed. So, it is pretty hard
to say what a 2 mph change in IAS at the stall really means. For example,
I flight tested one aircraft that had an IAS that was actually increasing
just prior to the stall (the experimental nose boom system showed that the
CAS was continuing to decrease as you would expect). Needless to say the
design had to be changed to fix the problem before the aircraft got its
Type Certificate. If you can figure out what direction the upper wind is
from, you might be able to do stalls upwind and downwind, and average the
GPS ground speeds to get a TAS at the stall. Then correct the TAS for
altitude and temperature to get a stall speed in CAS.
>Cruise Speeds:
>This has turned into a difficult and somewhat confusing thing to measure.
>A single test prior to installing the VGs indicated 171 IAS at full
>throttle at 10,000' msl (12,300' density altitude), after letting the
>airspeed settle for 3-4 minutes at max power setting. A first similar test
>with VGs with the temperature only slightly higher (12,600' DA) yielded
>only 162 mph IAS. A 9 mph loss. "What; -- a 9 mph speed loss for a 2 mph
>stall gain??" I was ready to rip off the VGs that minute. But I wanted to
>explore the other changes a bit more, so I didn't. The next flight Vmax
>with the VGs jumped to 169. I could live with that. The next flight
>yielded Vmax at about 164, and then back to 169, then down again, then up
>again. I can't seem to get a consistent reading even though flights are in
>the same conditions and same weights. I'm going to pull the VGs off this
>weekend and re-test without them for Vmax and consistency. I'm just as
>curious to see if the consistency returns than in the actual top speed.
>
You're in Colorado aren't you? Perhaps there was a tiny bit of wave
action, giving slightly rising or falling air. I've seen wave action mess
up flight test results in places with smaller hills than you likely have
around. Try moving 20 or 30 miles towards or away from the hills to put
you in another part of the hypothetical wave - if the max speed changes,
you're wasting your time trying to get perf data that day. Do you ever get
days when the upper winds are parallel to the mountain ranges?
>Take Off:
>I have no actual measurements here, and since my technique varies, so must
>the results. But; from feel; "Before I'd barely be struggling into the
>air by the windsock. Now at the windsock, I'm firmly in the air and
>beginning to enter a stable climb. What is more, the actual lift off seems
>more positive with less tendency for the plane to bobble around for the
>first couple of seconds looking for airspeed. How's that for a scientific
>appraisal? I told you, this is a seat-of-the-pants report.
Take care,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weighing the RV-6A |
Take it to your FBO if you have one, and let them weigh it on aircraft
scales.
Jerry Carter
RV-8A
36 hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 5:59 AM
Subject: RV-List: Weighing the RV-6A
>
> I'm at the point of weighing my RV-6A. Apart from finding scales, I
welcome
> advice from those who have done this before me. What would you do
> differently if you were to weigh your airplane again?
>
> Steve Soule
> Huntington, Vermont
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N712CR (RV-8A) Flying |
Chuck and Dave,
Congratulations, and, as you always say, "well done!"
Jerry Carter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6160hp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 7th ANNUAL RV Builders' Forum Oswego NY |
2001 Northeast RV Forum
(for Builders, Pilots and Enthusiasts)
Oswego County Airport, Fulton, New York (KFZY)
Saturday, September 15, 2001, with evening banquet included.
LOTS of good door prizes been donated from prime RV building
suppliers/vendors too.
DON'T forget our OSHKOSH sized discounts. Bring your lists and we fax in
your order that day....we get equally sizeable discounts as in OSHKOSH...that
savings alone could cover the event costs.
(Also Including Informal Friday evening and Sunday morning activities)
Seventh ANNUAL RV Builders' Forum
Mike Seager, RV instructor, will give RV instruction rides, in Factory RV6
All day Friday, Saturday and Sunday as weather permits.
(SORRY all spaces are filled currently)
For other updates, save link & watch web site at:
http://www.web-flight.com/486/index.html
OUR CONTINUED SUCCESS IN RV FORUMS STILL FEATURES:
Shared RV pleasure rides - weather, pilots, and airplanes permitting.
Lectures/presentations - to cover a broad range of interesting subjects.
Low Registration Fee of: $35 ($40 at the door) covers Saturday's Forums &
Meals (Saturdays: breakfast, lunch, and supper).
SCHEDULE OF ACTIVITIES:
Friday night - Sept. 14, there will be an informal welcome weenie roast at
the hangar for arriving attendees.
Saturday - all day Sept 15, we will have the full day of interesting seminars
and activities. (meals included.) Saturday evening hanger banquet and
related speaker included.
Sunday - for those who can stay over (optional), there will be a breakfast in
the hangar followed by a group fly-out (for those with planes) to Lake
Placid, NY, or some other interesting destination TBD.
Note: Registration fee for RV pilots with RV airplanes is only $1.
Lodging: Quality Inn: 315-593-2444, Fulton Motor Lodge: 315- 598-6100. (See
AOPA Directory for more.)
Ground Transportation: Rides to/from the local motels will be provided for
Free.
Oswego County Airport: (KFZY) is uncontrolled and can have no-radio traffic
in the pattern.
Traffic pattern is 1300' msl. Please use normal pattern/radio procedures and
be careful! 100LL is available.
See airport directories and approach plates - we have a new ILS precision
approach (freq. 110.9).
Sincerely
David McManmon
RV6 N58DM 120 hours now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Johnson" <scottjohnson345(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | *** RV6A For Sale *** |
Relocation from Chicago to Seattle forces sale.
Many pictures and specifications of this RV6A at :
http://www.geocities.com/dan_s_johnson/RV6A/index.htm
Any questions please email scottjohnson345(at)home.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Johnson" <scottjohnson345(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | --- RV8A Kit For Sale -------------------------------------------------- |
All kits to complete.
Tail Done.
Wings Done.
Fuselage 75% Done.
This kit is a little farther than a quickbuilt, and in my opinion, of higher
quality (see for yourself).
All parts veriprimed.
The guys who built this beautiful RV6A
http://www.geocities.com/dan_s_johnson/RV6A/index.htm have built this RV8A
kit.
Workmanship is excellent.
Relocation from Chicago to Seattle forces sale.
First $20,000 takes it (I have also been thinking about including the
building tools).
Any questions please email scottjohnson345(at)home.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | LRI and VG Testing |
I too have VG's on my RV6A. Here is what I noted:
The Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI) had been adjusted so that the analog meter
needle just touched the lower red segment on the indicator dial when stall
occurred. AFTER the VG's were installed, with no re-adjustment of the LRI
probe, the needle now moves WELL into the red zone before a stall happens.
That tells me positively that I am at a higher angle of attack before stall
occurs. How much? Can't be positive.
Another subjective observation: the plane feels FAR more solid in very slow
flight, and the stalls seem far milder, with less nose drop. In power off
stalls the 'drop' is more like a bit of a down draft rather than a nose
drop.
I have not seen any difference in top speeds after the VG's were installed.
I do not see any difference in 'float' during flare on landing either. I see
no difference in back pressure needed to keep the plane on 80MPH on final,
nor any difference that I can detect in the amount of elevator trim that I
use.
FWIW John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Annual RV Fall Classic Fiyl-In Lebanon,Tn (M54) |
Yea
We think it might be better,ya know how that goes!!!!!
John
Jim Sears wrote:
>
>I thought this event was the first weekend of October. You guys moving it
>back a little to maybe get some warmer weather?
>
>Jim Sears in KY
>RV-6A N198JS
>
>>We will be having our Sept 22,rain23, RV Fall Classic at
>>Lebanon Tn..Mike S from Vans still has some time slots
>>on the 21st and 23rd for those in need..Air- to- Air Photos
>>by pro for $50.00.Aircraft judging and awards..
>>Fuel Discounts and food...Rain date 23th..
>>For Mike S time slots,the contact is Jimmy Edwards 615-754-2596
>>E-Mail =edwards_rv6(at)prodigy.net
>> John McMahon
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris & Susie" <rv6(at)ssc.net.au> |
| Subject: | Help manual flap mech |
Have fitted the manual flap handle. Wings on and flap on.
OK I want to fit the linkage that goes from manual flap mechanism through
hole in fuse to flap.
The plans show the linkage hanging straight down from arm onto flap.
Having drilled hole in side of flap to attach linkage as per plans I notice
that the linkage will be on an angle .
Is this normal for manual flaps or shall I relocate attachment hole in flap.
Chris and Susie
VH-MUM (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elrod3794(at)aol.com |
HEY FELLOW RVers
I, AM, LOOKING FOR BILL PAGAN E-MAIL ADDRESS
THE BUILDER OF N565BW RV8A
PLEASE E-MAIL ME AT ELROD3794(at)AOL.COM
GETTING READY FOR FLIGHT TEST
MIKE ELROD RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The First 10 Hours on N601RD |
Really?? I've just never heard of anyone running head temps that low.
Every RV I've ever flown in has been close to 400 or a little over (except
when I flew in yours, but then it was my first ride in one and my grin was
so big it obscured my eyes....especially when I was upside down. ).
Mike
>
> Mike, why do you think that is not right? 300 is about where mine
> runs in cruise.
>
> Jerry
>
> Mike Nellis wrote:
> >
> >
> > Cylinder head temps of 290 - 315 don't sound right. Are you sure about
the
> > accuracy?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > >
> > > I have now accumulated about 10 hours on my -4. To date, everything
has
> > > gone fairly smoothly. The only major squawk was by B&C alternator
hitting
> > > the lower cowl at shut-down and/or start-up. The pulley on the
alternator
> > > cut into the nomex honeycomb on the cowl. It didn't cut completely
> > through
> > > the cowl, but still will require some glassing on the inside. I fixed
the
> > > problem by replacing the drive belt with one that is 1" shorter than
that
> > > supplied with the alternator. I had to also shorten the tensioning
arm by
> > > 1" to accommodate the new belt. Of course, replacing the belt
required
> > > removing the prop which, with a constant speed prop, is quite a pain.
> > >
> > > Oil temperature is stable at 180-185 deg F. The highest I have seen
so
> > far
> > > is 189 during a climb to 6000 feet at about 85 deg. surface ambient.
> > > Cylinder head temperatures run between 290 and 315. I am still
breaking
> > in
> > > the engine at 24 squared, full rich, at a nominal 3000 feet of
altitude.
> > > As I start to lean, the temperatures will likely climb. At 24 squared
and
> > > 3000 feet, I seem to cruise between 160 and 165 knots. I have yet to
> > > perform any accurate airspeed measurements. Rate of climb at take-off
> > > through 3000 feet seems to vary between 2000 and 2500 fpm depending on
> > > temperature, fuel quantity, etc.
> > >
> > > I have done stalls with and without flaps. It stalls gently, with
both
> > > wings stalling at the same time, at about 50kts with flaps. I am
still
> > not
> > > used to the pitch sensitivity of this aircraft. If I am not paying
close
> > > attention, I gain or loose 200-300 feet before I notice it.
> > >
> > > At my first flight, the Bedford (MA) tower told me my transponder was
not
> > > working. I spent $65 at the local avionics shop to have them tell me
it
> > > does work. I have had no problems on subsequent flights. I have
> > installed
> > > a Sennheiser noise-cancelling headset - it makes a huge difference.
> > > Sometimes, just for fun, I turn it off in flight to remember what it
> > sounds
> > > like.
> > >
> > > The Lasar electronic ignition is working flawlessly, so far. During
> > > initial run-up tests, I did have to replace the controller box, and
one
> > > magneto to get everything working properly. One CHT transducer is
> > behaving
> > > erratically. A single call to Electronics International resulted in
> > > getting one shipped to me at no charge.
> > >
> > > Good luck everybody - and keep building!
> > >
> > > Dean Pichon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net> |
pagan(at)cboss.com
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Elrod3794(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 9:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: NEED E-MAIL
HEY FELLOW RVers
I, AM, LOOKING FOR BILL PAGAN E-MAIL ADDRESS
THE BUILDER OF N565BW RV8A
PLEASE E-MAIL ME AT ELROD3794(at)AOL.COM
GETTING READY FOR FLIGHT TEST
MIKE ELROD RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: The First 10 Hours on N601RD |
In a message dated 8/28/01 11:47:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mnellis(at)peoplepc.com writes:
<< Really?? I've just never heard of anyone running head temps that low.
Every RV I've ever flown in has been close to 400 or a little over (except
when I flew in yours, but then it was my first ride in one and my grin was
so big it obscured my eyes....especially when I was upside down. ).
Mike >>
On my RV-6, #1 and #2 are just under 300F in cruise. #3 is 350, and #4 is
325. One day I'll probably install airflow blockers on #1 and #2 to get the
temps a little more even.
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas McIntyre <bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The First 10 Hours on N601RD |
Mike
I can't ge mine over 325 unless I'm in a steep climb on a hot day. My inlet size
has been reduced 20% and it actually runs a little cooler because of it. Has to
do with entry/exit area ratio.
Tom
RV3
0320, 160 hp
Mike Nellis wrote:
>
> Really?? I've just never heard of anyone running head temps that low.
> Every RV I've ever flown in has been close to 400 or a little over (except
> when I flew in yours, but then it was my first ride in one and my grin was
> so big it obscured my eyes....especially when I was upside down. ).
>
> Mike
>
> >
> > Mike, why do you think that is not right? 300 is about where mine
> > runs in cruise.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> > Mike Nellis wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Cylinder head temps of 290 - 315 don't sound right. Are you sure about
> the
> > > accuracy?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I have now accumulated about 10 hours on my -4. To date, everything
> has
> > > > gone fairly smoothly. The only major squawk was by B&C alternator
> hitting
> > > > the lower cowl at shut-down and/or start-up. The pulley on the
> alternator
> > > > cut into the nomex honeycomb on the cowl. It didn't cut completely
> > > through
> > > > the cowl, but still will require some glassing on the inside. I fixed
> the
> > > > problem by replacing the drive belt with one that is 1" shorter than
> that
> > > > supplied with the alternator. I had to also shorten the tensioning
> arm by
> > > > 1" to accommodate the new belt. Of course, replacing the belt
> required
> > > > removing the prop which, with a constant speed prop, is quite a pain.
> > > >
> > > > Oil temperature is stable at 180-185 deg F. The highest I have seen
> so
> > > far
> > > > is 189 during a climb to 6000 feet at about 85 deg. surface ambient.
> > > > Cylinder head temperatures run between 290 and 315. I am still
> breaking
> > > in
> > > > the engine at 24 squared, full rich, at a nominal 3000 feet of
> altitude.
> > > > As I start to lean, the temperatures will likely climb. At 24 squared
> and
> > > > 3000 feet, I seem to cruise between 160 and 165 knots. I have yet to
> > > > perform any accurate airspeed measurements. Rate of climb at take-off
> > > > through 3000 feet seems to vary between 2000 and 2500 fpm depending on
> > > > temperature, fuel quantity, etc.
> > > >
> > > > I have done stalls with and without flaps. It stalls gently, with
> both
> > > > wings stalling at the same time, at about 50kts with flaps. I am
> still
> > > not
> > > > used to the pitch sensitivity of this aircraft. If I am not paying
> close
> > > > attention, I gain or loose 200-300 feet before I notice it.
> > > >
> > > > At my first flight, the Bedford (MA) tower told me my transponder was
> not
> > > > working. I spent $65 at the local avionics shop to have them tell me
> it
> > > > does work. I have had no problems on subsequent flights. I have
> > > installed
> > > > a Sennheiser noise-cancelling headset - it makes a huge difference.
> > > > Sometimes, just for fun, I turn it off in flight to remember what it
> > > sounds
> > > > like.
> > > >
> > > > The Lasar electronic ignition is working flawlessly, so far. During
> > > > initial run-up tests, I did have to replace the controller box, and
> one
> > > > magneto to get everything working properly. One CHT transducer is
> > > behaving
> > > > erratically. A single call to Electronics International resulted in
> > > > getting one shipped to me at no charge.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck everybody - and keep building!
> > > >
> > > > Dean Pichon
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Help manual flap mech |
In a message dated 8/28/01 11:40:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rv6(at)ssc.net.au
writes:
<< Have fitted the manual flap handle. Wings on and flap on.
OK I want to fit the linkage that goes from manual flap mechanism through
hole in fuse to flap.
The plans show the linkage hanging straight down from arm onto flap.
Having drilled hole in side of flap to attach linkage as per plans I notice
that the linkage will be on an angle .
Is this normal for manual flaps or shall I relocate attachment hole in flap.
>>
Which RV? On my -6, the links point down and slightly back with the flaps in
trail. With the flaps down, the links still point down and back, but are
somewhat more vertical than with the flaps up.
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Tooling Holes (Again) |
Well, I had a heavy wing on my first flights, so I thought I would be a
perfect candidate to prove the tooling hole theory. Here goes:
I took the advice of a professional RV builder and used the tooling holes.
Disconnected the push rod at the aileron, pinned the bellcrank neutral, and
lined up the tooling holes. Made the adjustment to the rod. When the
ailerons were done, I disconnected the flaps from the arm and clamped a
piece of angle on the flap and the pinned aileron. Adjusted the rods for
the flaps and re installed.
So, I indirectly lined the flaps up with the tooling holes as well. Guess
what? It flew hands off, perfectly with no further adjustments. So, as a
closure to the previous tooling hole thread, it works. Perfectly. Throw
your wood template in the fireplace and do it this way. Also, Van's
concurred that this method will work when I asked them if I should do it
that way.
Paul Besing
RV-6A N197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: *** RV6A For Sale *** |
In a message dated 8/28/01 7:39:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
scottjohnson345(at)home.com writes:
> Relocation from Chicago to Seattle forces sale.
>
>
Wait a minute, there are probably more RV's in the Seattle area most likely,
than in Chicago. Why don't you just bring it with you.
Henry H.
RV-6 N72224
KAWO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle /Mixture Cables |
In a message dated 8/28/01 7:04:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
bertrv6(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< I recalled someone mentioned the name of the
company that mfg. the cables that we buy from Van's.
I would appreciate it, if some one, give me the
name, and how to communicate with them, phone, e-mail >>
Bert-
Cablecraft div of Tuthill makes the cables for Van's. The contact info is in
the Yeller Pages.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The First 10 Hours on N601RD |
I concur. I see 400 to 420 at most power settings in the summer on my
VM1000 with two-point calibrated CHT probes. And new engines tend to run
much, much hotter until they are broken in.
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP 99.4 hours
Hampshire, IL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: The First 10 Hours on N601RD
>
> Really?? I've just never heard of anyone running head temps that low.
> Every RV I've ever flown in has been close to 400 or a little over (except
> when I flew in yours, but then it was my first ride in one and my grin was
> so big it obscured my eyes....especially when I was upside down. ).
>
> Mike
>
>
> >
> > Mike, why do you think that is not right? 300 is about where mine
> > runs in cruise.
> >
> > Jerry
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cleco Rivet gun parts |
In a message dated 8/28/01 6:48:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Paulbaird(at)aol.com writes:
<< Does anyone know where I can get parts for my Cleco 2E Rivet gun? >>
Try Dresser Industries (maker of Cleco Brand air tools). They should have a
web presence. Try "Dresser Industries" in a search engine or in the RV-List
archives, as I think this question has been asked before.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris & Susie" <rv6(at)ssc.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Help manual flap mech |
RV6
Chris and Susie
VH-MUM (reserved)
----- Original Message -----
From: <KBoatri144(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Help manual flap mech
>
> In a message dated 8/28/01 11:40:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rv6(at)ssc.net.au
> writes:
>
> << Have fitted the manual flap handle. Wings on and flap on.
> OK I want to fit the linkage that goes from manual flap mechanism through
> hole in fuse to flap.
> The plans show the linkage hanging straight down from arm onto flap.
> Having drilled hole in side of flap to attach linkage as per plans I
notice
> that the linkage will be on an angle .
> Is this normal for manual flaps or shall I relocate attachment hole in
flap.
> >>
>
> Which RV? On my -6, the links point down and slightly back with the flaps
in
> trail. With the flaps down, the links still point down and back, but are
> somewhat more vertical than with the flaps up.
>
> KB
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Mounting wings on an RV-6A |
Don,
I don't think that there is enough room to back drill from the top of the
wing. It is worth a try, though. You could try it with the 12 inch bit,
which is flexible. All you need is a pilot hole. You can remove the wing,
enlarge the holes and fasten your nutplates.
I drilled the holes from the bottom of the airplane.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Jordan [mailto:dons6a(at)juno.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 5:22 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Mounting wings on an RV-6A
> While you have the wings on, make sure you layout the
holes in the
> lower
> fuselage skin where the skin overlaps the lower wing. You
will need
> to
> remove the wings to rivet platenuts into this location.
>
****************
Steve:
Should I pre drill the holes in the wing flange & can I then
back drill
from the top of the wing??
I think the pattern should be the edge of the flange.
Don Jordan - N6DJ - 6A - Arlington , TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Weighing the RV-6A |
I would take the plane to a professional if I could, but we don't have an
FBO at this field. In fact, we don't have scales either. I really would like
any information the folks on the list have to offer about this important
subject.
Steve Soule
-----Original Message-----
Take it to your FBO if you have one, and let them weigh it
on aircraft
scales.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Help manual flap mech |
On my RV-6A the rod is at an angle, too.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message
Have fitted the manual flap handle. Wings on and flap on.
OK I want to fit the linkage that goes from manual flap
mechanism through
hole in fuse to flap.
The plans show the linkage hanging straight down from arm
onto flap.
Having drilled hole in side of flap to attach linkage as per
plans I notice
that the linkage will be on an angle .
Is this normal for manual flaps or shall I relocate
attachment hole in flap.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Marshall <btmars(at)jps.net> |
Ive been a subscriber for years, and now really know how much this list
means to me. For three weeks I was
feeling pretty isolated. Thanks Matt. Check will be in the e-mail!!
As an experiment I scuffed a small piece of Alclad and left it overnight
in some saltwater along with an unscuffed
piece. Results: scuffed piece was totally covered with erosion.
Unscuffed piece was unaffected. Leads me to
believe that even slight scuffing eliminates any anticorrosion
properties.
Bob Marshall
RV6A wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Weighing the RV-6A |
| From: | pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com |
08/29/2001 08:45:52 AM
Steve,
I had my -4 weighed by a "mobile" service that came to the hangar to weigh
the aircraft. This was a "certified" weighing and cost me $175. The
outfit is in Wilmington, MA, so it's far from Huntington. I learned of
them by asking around the FBO's in Bedford. You may have similar luck at
BTV. Prestige Aircraft in Swanton, VT must be able to weigh since they
paint.
Good luck,
Dean
|--------+---------------------------------->
| | "Stephen J. Soule" |
| | |
| | Sent by: |
| | owner-rv-list-server@mat|
| | ronics.com |
| | |
| | |
| | 08/29/01 05:32 AM |
| | Please respond to |
| | rv-list |
| | |
|--------+---------------------------------->
|
|
| To: "'rv-list(at)matronics.com'"
|
| cc:
|
| bcc:
|
| Subject: RE: RV-List: Weighing the RV-6A
|
I would take the plane to a professional if I could, but we don't have an
FBO at this field. In fact, we don't have scales either. I really would
like
any information the folks on the list have to offer about this important
subject.
Steve Soule
-----Original Message-----
Take it to your FBO if you have one, and let them weigh it
on aircraft
scales.
**** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of
Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain
confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee
only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not
the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible.****
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Chesteen" <bchesteen(at)planetc.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder tip rib and counterbalance skin |
Ok everyone,
When drilling and riveting on my 803 top rib to the spar in the rudder,
I found the 8 1/16" dim on the plans
to show how far forward to set the rib. I riveting it on along with the
counterbalance skin. The problem is now that
my rudder is in the jig and all the holes are drilled, I wanted to see
how the fiberglass top fairing was going to fit.
It doesn't! The tip is about 1/8" - 3/16" to long! The manuals states
that this tip should come with an open end. Mine does
not have an open end, it is molded complete with a little relief in the
front bottom so it can go down inside the front of the counterbalance
skin.
Will I have to cut this off and make a new closure for this tip? Why is
it the wrong size? Did I goof or did the mold maker goof?
Brian Chesteen
RV7A
Emp (Rudder)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Robertson" <gordon(at)safemail.com> |
| Subject: | Skinning top of fuse |
Hi folks,
I was beginning to get withdrawal symptoms. Glad to have the list back up
again.
I am just starting on the turtle deck of my RV8. So far I have managed to
do everything solo, with no bucking bar helper. But the top deck may just
defeat me.
Has anyone done it solo? If so, how? I dont think the skin will bend out
of the way to stretch an arm in like I could do on the wing, because of its
curvature. I am thinking of either trying to make a really clever fixture
to hold the bucking bar and using backriveting from inside the fuse (one by
one) or using cherrymax Pop rivets from the outside.
Any suggestions out there would be appreciated.
Gordon Robertson
RV8 fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
Bruce,
Have flown 11 hours without a pressure drop.
Did end up changing the eng pump again
because the new one started causing a gage
bounce of 5lbs each way. It seemed to follow
each stroke of the pump?
Stewart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skinning top of fuse |
Do whatever is necessary to get a day's worth of help on this. You need to
have the skin down tight before the first rivet is done to get the smooth
finish you want. This is a high visibility area.
Side note, uses shims as needed to prevent flat spots on the skin curvature.
The rule is if there is anyway to squeeze a shim between the skin and the
bulkhead, then a shim is required. I made the shims in different thickness,
.020, .025 and .032. The shim is just a half inch square piece of aluminum
with a #40 dimpled hole.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (wings on, final trim work)
Vienna, VA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Robertson" <gordon(at)safemail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 8:47 AM
Subject: RV-List: Skinning top of fuse
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I was beginning to get withdrawal symptoms. Glad to have the list back
up
> again.
>
> I am just starting on the turtle deck of my RV8. So far I have managed to
> do everything solo, with no bucking bar helper. But the top deck may just
> defeat me.
>
> Has anyone done it solo? If so, how? I dont think the skin will bend
out
> of the way to stretch an arm in like I could do on the wing, because of
its
> curvature. I am thinking of either trying to make a really clever
fixture
> to hold the bucking bar and using backriveting from inside the fuse (one
by
> one) or using cherrymax Pop rivets from the outside.
>
> Any suggestions out there would be appreciated.
>
> Gordon Robertson
> RV8 fuse
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-9A empennage and wing for sale |
We have the empennage 80% complete and wing kit unopened for an RV-9A
for sale. $6400 for both. We have revisited our video production and will
be producing a new series for the side by side planes that will cover both
the -9As and -7/7As. Please give us a call if you are interested in the -9A
kits. (940) 648-0841
Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skinning top of fuse |
> Has anyone done it solo? If so, how? I dont think the skin will
> bend out
> of the way to stretch an arm in like I could do on the wing, because
> of its
> curvature. I am thinking of either trying to make a really clever
> fixture
> to hold the bucking bar and using backriveting from inside the fuse
> (one by
> one) or using cherrymax Pop rivets from the outside.
Gordon,
Check out:
http://www.metronet.com/~dreeves/articles/rotatingfuselagestand.htm
Now I was working on a -6 and the -8 fuse may be longer... but if you
build one of these stands you will find you can reach waaaaaaay back
there when the fuselage is rotated sideways a bit. Some of those
rivets may not be pretty, but you have already resigned yourself to
that if you're doing it solo...
Not my idea - not even my jig... but it worked great!
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 n140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Murray, KY Fly In |
| From: | Shelby Smith <rvaitor(at)home.com> |
Howard Brandon, self professed "last of the big wheels" may very well be
having his last "Fun Fly-in and Barbeque" just south of Murray, KY at
Brandon Aerodrome(Brandon(PVT)). Howard is known worldwide for trading cars
and memorabilia of the stars. For twenty years he operated the Car
Collectors Hall of Fame in Nashville, TN.
Howard reputedly traded a shotgun and $5 for his first car at age twelve and
has been trading ever since. He is the current owner of Brandon Auto World
in Murray(Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac). Also, a dealer for American Champion
Aircraft and has some of the most pristine Piper Cubs in the country.
Kruse International, a division of EBAY, has approached Howard to liquidate
his holdings(they say the auction could last two to three days) so this may
be the final opportunity for Howard to share his beautiful automobiles,
airplanes, and memorabilia with family and friends. If you are within
driving or flying distance of southwest KY, near Land between the Lakes, you
will not regret joining Howard on this special occasion. Howard's airstrip
is nicely manicured and 2100 +- ft. You may also land at Murray Airport and
catch a shuttle over. The date is September 8th and there is no rain date.
Free Barbeque at noon.
EAA Chapter 920 is co-sponsoring it. Camping is available with limited
services Friday night. You may call the airport at 270-753-6789 or
270-753-4389 e-mail jparker(at)wk.net or alsullivan(at)charter.net
Also, a couple of pictures. The flyer has the coordinates and other
important information. Hope this helps. The airport is BRANDON(PVT) on the
St Louis Sectional(I think) just south of Murray, KY.
Hope you can make it.
Flyer
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/files/Information%20on%20Fly-Ins
/Brandon%20%233.jpg
Pictures
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/files/Information%20on%20Fly-Ins
/
--
Shelby Smith
rvaitor(at)home.com
RV6A - Landing Mounts Drilled - 200HP
N95EB - reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
| Subject: | flush pop rivets |
SNIP For flush pop rivets, how is everyone filling them? I'm thinking of
using
JB Weld for aluminum. Hopefully this will not vibrate out and may???
strengthen the rivet. It is hard to sand. Any thoughts?SNIP
I used, and was very happy with, an aluminum filled, paintable, windshield
and seam sealant that you can get in a tube at most any automotive paint
supply store.
You simply squeeze a dab into each rivet hole and wipe off the excess with a
solvent dampened rag. No muss, no fuss, and NO SANDING! You can even use
it on polished aluminum parts since it dries to an aluminum color. I
painted over it with no problems at all. You could fill every pop rivet on
your plane in just a few minutes. Very easy.
Vince in Indiana
Rocket tanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Skinning top of fuse |
In a message dated 8/29/01 5:56:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
gordon(at)safemail.com writes:
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I was beginning to get withdrawal symptoms. Glad to have the list back up
> again.
>
> I am just starting on the turtle deck of my RV8. So far I have managed to
> do everything solo, with no bucking bar helper. But the top deck may just
> defeat me.
>
> Has anyone done it solo? If so, how? I dont think the skin will bend out
> of the way to stretch an arm in like I could do on the wing, because of its
> curvature. I am thinking of either trying to make a really clever fixture
> to hold the bucking bar and using backriveting from inside the fuse (one by
August 04, 2001 - August 29, 2001
RV-Archive.digest.vol-li