RV-Archive.digest.vol-ln

September 17, 2001 - September 21, 2001



      just temporarily slowing things down until they can slowly lift the heavy
      hand and allow people to move again. Or could be that they want the
      training facilities to fail so the terrorist can't get trained; here that
      is. I really believe that Senator McCains' group thinks aviation should be
      for airlines and the military boys. Seems pretty obvious that's the way he
      thinks. There is no question, our rights as pilots are in question now.
      
      Anyway, if you are a procrastinator like me. And have always been torn
      between the AOPA membership and that cool tool from Avery's that could
      really help on your project. Now would be the time to step up and call the
      AOPA (800-USA-AOPA) and lend your support to Phil Boyer. It could turn out
      that you won't need the Avery tool as your RV-8 kit will make a really cool
      salad bar down at the local restaurant. Its only $40.00 and you get a cool
      hat to boot.
      
      So this is my Jerry Lewis telethon type challenge, If you want to fly some
      time in the future, and you don't belong to the AOPA, I'm calling you out
      in the street. You are doing it for yourself. Ya can almost hear Jerry
      sing:
      
       " Look at him he's flyin, John McCain is cryin
          Imagine recreational pilots everywhere........
      
      It's your future dude.
      
      Eric Henson
      
      By the way, if any of you are on other lists or aviation groups, could you
      please forward this to those lists.
      Thanks
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: oil cooler on baffle, etc
From: Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
Date: Sep 17, 2001
10:28:15 AM Well, I can say that the gang in our hangar just proved this. Ken Sebok, a lurker on this list bought an RV-6 right after the time was flown off. It had the remote oil cooler mount on a Niagra and I believe was running about 240 degrees. He tried everything, new baffeling, checked the vernatherm, deflector in front of the front cylinders. Nothing helped. Finally moved it to the back baffle. It worked, I think he's seeing under 220 at cruise now. Still a little toasty but maybe that will come down. He's also putting on the JC Whittney filter heat sink on his AirWolf system. Next time Ken (bandit general aviation terrorist for the experamental jihad) takes to the skys he should be in good shape. Eric (Those F-16's better watch their six) "Robert Dickson"(at)matronics.com@matronics.com on 09/17/2001 08:52:32 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: Re: RV-List: oil cooler on baffle, etc they (van's) have apparently come to believe that oil coolers just work better in the direct stream off that rear baffle. The scat tube allegedly doesn't provide nearly as good an airstream across the fins. It was also his opinion that it's easier to mount on the baffle than the firewall. I think he's probably right. please, I'm just reporting what I was told by Gus. I decided on the rear baffle mount after considering what he said, and also after thinking about the space that will be freed up on the firewall. I'd like to put in a remote oil filter system and I think this will give me the space. Robert Dickson RV-6A seeing light at the end of the baffle tunnel Fayetteville NC ---------- >From: Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> >To: RV List >Subject: RV-List: oil cooler on baffle, etc >Date: Sun, Sep 16, 2001, 1:38 PM > > > What were Gus' arguments for not putting the oil cooler on the firewall? > I had planned to do that on my 6A. I have an 0-320 and one of Van's > Niagara coolers. > > Charlie Brame > RV-6AQB N11CB (Reserved) > San Antonio > >>> Subject: RV-List: oil cooler on baffle, etc >>> From: "Robert Dickson"@matronics.com >>> >>> >> Gus at Van's talked me into putting my oil cooler on the left rear >> baffle instead of the firewall as I was planning. After studying >> what's involved in this process, I've got a question or two that I >> can't find answers for in the archive. BTW I'm working on a -6A with >> an O-360, CS, and Van's baffle kit. I'm installing their Niagara oil >> cooler. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2001
From: Brian.Schalme(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Parachute Packing Requirements
Earl, I am a skydiver with 860 skydives, eight years in the sport and a National Championship to my credit. I personally know several FAA and CSPA (Canadian Sport Parachuting Association) certified riggers. I'll try to shed some light on the subject of emergency parachute packing. In the U.S. the FAA designates two classes of riggers: Senior Rigger and Master Rigger. A Senior Rigger is qualified to pack reserve and emergency parachutes for anyone. They can also perform minor repairs to the parachute equipment, such as small holes in the canopy fabric. A Master Rigger holds all the privileges of a Senior Rigger. They can also perform minor and major repairs to the entire parachute assembly (harness, container, main and reserve). Such repairs can also be done on emergency parachute equipment. Around the world, an FAA MAster Rigger's ticket is regarded as the Ph.D. of parachute rigging. It is held in the highest regard by all skydivers. Skydivers in both our countries (and throughout the world for that matter) learn to pack their main parachutes early on in their skydiving career. However, their reserves must be inspected and repacked by a Senior or Master Rigger every 120 days (180 here in Canada). If they choose, they can take the training to earn a Senior or Master Rigger rating, and be able to pack their own reserves (as well as other people's). I know some people who are too cheap to pay a rigger to repack their reserve so they obtained a rigger rating and use it just so they can pack their own reserves :). I have not heard of a rigger designation that allows you just to pack your own reserve or emergency parachute. I have a local FAA Master Rigger inspect and repack my reserve. He has the formal training and 20 years of experience to guide him. I trust his abilities and his judgment. After all, if I need to deploy my reserve is *has* to work. There's no spare one after it. Someday I'll get a rigger rating. Parachute technology is fascinating. On the subject of repack cycles, the Parachute Industry Association (PIA) did extensive research into the idea of extending the repack cycle for nylon parachutes from 120 days to 180 days. Parachute manufacturers as well as riggers in the field participated in the study. They found that the porosity of the canopy fabric decreases in proportion to how often it is handled (i.e. during deployment, inspection and repacking). Porosity is undesirable; it reduces the performance of the canopy. No ill effects were found in reserve parachutes that were not inspected for 180 days. It was the PIA's recommendation to increase the repack cycle to 180 days. In Canada, CSPA is the authority on reserve repack cycles, so we adopted it. Since the FAA dictates the repack cycles, it will take some time for them to adopt this recommendation. The United Sates Parachute Association (USPA) is working on it. Hope this helps. Brian Schalme Mid-Canada Director, Canadian Sport Parachuting Association CSPA C-2133 RV8 Dreaming & Goal Setting efortner wrote: > > > Bill, a friend told me you could that you could get certified to pack your own > chute > but could not do it for anyone else. Sorta like an expermental repairman > certificate. > Any truth to this. > Earl RV4 > > "Bill Shook"@matronics.com wrote: > > snip ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ClearProp1(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Subject: God Bless America Apparel
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, kolb-list(at)matronics.com, zenith-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com, lancair-list(at)matronics.com, cessna-list(at)matronics.com, beech-list(at)matronics.com, cadet-list(at)matronics.com, avionics-list(at)matronics.com, aerobatic-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com, homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com As many of you know, the American Flags have sold out very quickly in most stores across America. For those of you that want to wear the American Flag proudly on your shirt or hat, we have them in stock and ready to send out. The design is a waving flag with God Bless America proudly stated across the flag. A portion of every sale will go towards helping the families of this disastrous crime. Show support for your country. Scott Brown Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc. phone: 561-748-2420 Fax: 561-748-6980 Visit us at www.six-shooters.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Subject: remote oil filters
From: "Robert Dickson"@matronics.com
speaking of remote oil filters, what do you folks have to say about the airwolf system versus the ADC? Robert Dickson RV-6A Fayetteville NC, filin' & flyin' on Wednesday (not in an RV) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott D. Morgan"@matronics.com
Subject: Re: God Bless America Apparel
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Hello Scott. I appreciate your patriotic efforts! Would it be possible to inform us "how much" will go to the families????? Thanks, Scott Morgan ----- Original Message ----- From: <ClearProp1(at)aol.com> ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 10:40 AM Subject: RV-List: God Bless America Apparel > > As many of you know, the American Flags have sold out very quickly in most > stores across America. For those of you that want to wear the American Flag > proudly on your shirt or hat, we have them in stock and ready to send out. > The design is a waving flag with God Bless America proudly stated across the > flag. > > A portion of every sale will go towards helping the families of this > disastrous crime. Show support for your country. > > > Scott Brown > Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc. > > phone: 561-748-2420 Fax: 561-748-6980 > > Visit us at www.six-shooters.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Brake reservoir idea
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Folks, The other day I was looking at some pictures of a RV that had the brake reservoirs mounted on the copilots master cylinders. Could someone post a pointer to those photos for me - I've lost them and I think it's a pretty good idea... Ralph Capen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com>
Subject: Carbon Hinge for Cowl
Date: Sep 17, 2001
All, Twice in the past year I have brought up the concept of using a carbon-fiber hinge as a potential "better" way to put our cowl halves together. I could find nobody who had done this, so.... I did it. This is a report. First, there is both carbon fiber and fiberglass hinge material available. Here is the website of the stuff I used: www.carbinge.com The product itself is very nice, very precise, very light. I am using camlocks across the top and bottom of the firewall, metal hinges along the sides of the firewall, and carbon fiber hinges along the cowl halves. Specifically, I used carbon fiber hinge along both sides where the top and bottom come together. They recommend using a rivet or two at each end to prevent the bonded-on hinge from ever "pealing" away from the cowl (but I used rivets spaced every 4 inches to make myself feel better). Once bonded on, it is quite nice, seems to be "one" with the fiberglass cowl itself, and should never break since it can flex just a bit more than the aluminum hinge can. HOWEVER, the cost for 7 feet of this stuff turned out to be $180.00, plus $7 shipping. BOTTOM LINE: There is no question in my mind that this is NOT worth the effort nor the cost. There is no need for anybody else to perform this experiment. The data are in... don't waste time and money on composite hinges for your cowl. Please archive. Jim Tampa, FL 6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ClearProp1(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Subject: Re: God Bless America Apparel
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, kolb-list(at)matronics.com, zenith-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com, lancair-list(at)matronics.com, cessna-list(at)matronics.com, beech-list(at)matronics.com, cadet-list(at)matronics.com, avionics-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com, homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com Sure, I am planning on sending a dollar from every shirts sold to both the Fire Fighters Foundation and the Red Cross. A few responses have indicated that I did not give a way to purchase these items. Items can be purchased either over the phone, fax, or email by forwarding your name, address, phone number and credit card for purchases. Or you can send a check to: Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc. 2731 SE Taiwinds Rd. Jupiter, FL 33478 Items being sold are: White T-shirts Denim Blue hats White Polo Shirts Ash polo shirts All are beautifully embroidered with the American Flag and "God Bless America". Thank you for all your responses!! Scott Brown Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc. phone: 561-748-2420 Fax: 561-748-6980 Visit us at www.six-shooters.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Subject: Re: God Bless America Apparel
i can recommend this guy, his work is first rate as he supplied myself a hat and a shirt with a custom logo for my eaa chapter, the fly by knights. scott tampa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com>
Subject: God Bless America Apparel
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Just to back Scott up, he did a really great job on custom RV shirts for the rv-listers sometime back. He only charged $20 a piece and they were well done and high quality. Ed Cole RV6A N2169D Flying RV6A N648RV Finishing > -----Original Message----- > From: ClearProp1(at)aol.com [SMTP:ClearProp1(at)aol.com] > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 10:15 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com; > rocket-list(at)matronics.com; kolb-list(at)matronics.com; > zenith-list(at)matronics.com; yak-list(at)matronics.com; ez-list(at)matronics.com; > lancair-list(at)matronics.com; cessna-list(at)matronics.com; > beech-list(at)matronics.com; cadet-list(at)matronics.com; > avionics-list(at)matronics.com; pitts-list(at)matronics.com; > homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: God Bless America Apparel > > > > families?????> > > Sure, I am planning on sending a dollar from every shirts sold to both the > > Fire Fighters Foundation and the Red Cross. > > A few responses have indicated that I did not give a way to purchase these > > items. Items can be purchased either over the phone, fax, or email by > forwarding your name, address, phone number and credit card for purchases. > Or > you can send a check to: > > Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc. > 2731 SE Taiwinds Rd. > Jupiter, FL 33478 > > Items being sold are: > > White T-shirts > Denim Blue hats > White Polo Shirts > Ash polo shirts > > All are beautifully embroidered with the American Flag and "God Bless > America". > > Thank you for all your responses!! > > > Scott Brown > Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc. > > phone: 561-748-2420 Fax: 561-748-6980 > > Visit us at www.six-shooters.com > > > > > > Maxim Home Page: http://www.maxim-ic.com Products Page: http://www.maxim-ic.com/MaximProducts/products.htm New Products: http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/new_products.cfm Datasheets: http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/l_datasheet3.cfm The information contained in this message is confidential and may be legally privileged. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com>
Subject: studs too short for prop governor
Date: Sep 17, 2001
I tried to mount a McCauley prop governor to an Aero Sport O-320 and the mounting studs are too short. Only about one thread is exposed beyond the flange of the governor. Has anyone else run into this? What is the best source for longer studs? Should they be installed with Loctite 271 Stud Lock? Chris Heitman Dousman WI RV-9A N94ME (reserved) http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terrywatson3(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Brake reservoir idea
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Ralph, This isn't precisely what you asked since it's in an Randy Lervold's RV-8, but I think it might be what you had in mind. www.rv-8.com/ideasproducts.htm Terry > > Folks, > > The other day I was looking at some pictures of a RV that had the brake > reservoirs mounted on the copilots master cylinders. > > Could someone post a pointer to those photos for me - I've lost them and > I think it's a pretty good idea... > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Brake reservoir idea - solved
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Bingo! Thanks Terry - you're on my "beer" list. Ralph ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Knicholas2(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Subject: white rocker switches
I am looking for reasonably priced white color rocker switches for my RV9. I have found some from several of the typical avionics sources (no names here....) but the prices are rediculous! ($45-60 per switch!!!) I like the look of a light color switch in a darkened cockpit but the black switches from ACS are looking better all the time. Kim Nicholas RV9 fuse Seattle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net>
Subject: Re: Parachute Packing Requirements
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Brian, Thanks for the GREAT information. I am wondering, as I have heard there is not one rigger where I live, what is involved with getting the training and certification as a rigger. Is it fairly reasonable to do or is it lots of work with lots of ongoing requirements? When I owned a citabria, I had a chute but it was chronically out of date. Aloha, Russ Maui ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Hawkins <lhawkins(at)giant.com>
Subject: Carbon Hinge for Cowl
Date: Sep 17, 2001
I also tried the "carbinge" What a disaster. Not blaming the product, it is a very good product and very precisely made. Perhaps too precise I bonded them to my cowl but could not get them back together once installed. I am not a great craftsman and should stick to the tried and true methods as I ended up grinding them off and installing the hinges that Van's sent with the kit. 20 hours work and $200 down the drain. Live and learn. Perhaps someone else can learn from my mistakes. Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, N-345SL, (reserved) finishing. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Norman, MD [mailto:jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com] Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 10:25 AM Subject: RV-List: Carbon Hinge for Cowl All, Twice in the past year I have brought up the concept of using a carbon-fiber hinge as a potential "better" way to put our cowl halves together. I could find nobody who had done this, so.... I did it. This is a report. First, there is both carbon fiber and fiberglass hinge material available. Here is the website of the stuff I used: www.carbinge.com The product itself is very nice, very precise, very light. I am using camlocks across the top and bottom of the firewall, metal hinges along the sides of the firewall, and carbon fiber hinges along the cowl halves. Specifically, I used carbon fiber hinge along both sides where the top and bottom come together. They recommend using a rivet or two at each end to prevent the bonded-on hinge from ever "pealing" away from the cowl (but I used rivets spaced every 4 inches to make myself feel better). Once bonded on, it is quite nice, seems to be "one" with the fiberglass cowl itself, and should never break since it can flex just a bit more than the aluminum hinge can. HOWEVER, the cost for 7 feet of this stuff turned out to be $180.00, plus $7 shipping. BOTTOM LINE: There is no question in my mind that this is NOT worth the effort nor the cost. There is no need for anybody else to perform this experiment. The data are in... don't waste time and money on composite hinges for your cowl. Please archive. Jim Tampa, FL 6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Christie"@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Landing Gear Weldments
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Vince, I just finished doing this 3 weeks ago. I couldn't do it by myself for the same reason. I had a friend over with thinner hands, who placed the nuts on inside the spar box. The bolts were on the outside. Then he held an open end wrench on the nut while I used the torque wrench. The open end wrench is about 6 inches long. It would be difficult to do by yourself. Bill Christie, RV8A , finis kit ordered! ----- Original Message ----- From: Vince <vwelch(at)knownet.net> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 8:52 PM Subject: RV-List: Landing Gear Weldments > > Hey guys, I was fitting the landing gear weldments on my RV-8A > tonight. Can anyone offer any suggestions as to how to get the AN4 > bolts into the weldment that pass through the top of the 804 spar? > My hand is too large to squeeze in there to insert and hold bolts. > If I insert the bolt from the outside, how do I hold the nut that > then has to be between the 804's to torque everything down? > > > Vince Welch > RV-8A Fuselage > Roaming Shores, Ohio > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carbon Hinge for Cowl
From: pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com
Date: Sep 17, 2001
09/17/2001 03:54:01 PM I have been considering replacing the aluminum hinge on my -4 with fiberglass hinge as soon as I start breaking eyelets. I am confused by your conclusion that the fiberglass hinges are not worth the effort and cost. Do you have some performance issues/data that you can share with us? Dean Pichon RV-4 (25hrs) Arlington, MA |--------+----------------------------------> | | "Jim Norman, MD" | | | | | | Sent by: | | | owner-rv-list-server@mat| | | ronics.com | | | | | | | | | 09/17/01 01:24 PM | | | Please respond to | | | rv-list | | | | |--------+----------------------------------> | | | To: | | cc: | | bcc: | | Subject: RV-List: Carbon Hinge for Cowl | All, Twice in the past year I have brought up the concept of using a carbon-fiber hinge as a potential "better" way to put our cowl halves together. I could find nobody who had done this, so.... I did it. This is a report. First, there is both carbon fiber and fiberglass hinge material available. Here is the website of the stuff I used: www.carbinge.com The product itself is very nice, very precise, very light. I am using camlocks across the top and bottom of the firewall, metal hinges along the sides of the firewall, and carbon fiber hinges along the cowl halves. Specifically, I used carbon fiber hinge along both sides where the top and bottom come together. They recommend using a rivet or two at each end to prevent the bonded-on hinge from ever "pealing" away from the cowl (but I used rivets spaced every 4 inches to make myself feel better). Once bonded on, it is quite nice, seems to be "one" with the fiberglass cowl itself, and should never break since it can flex just a bit more than the aluminum hinge can. HOWEVER, the cost for 7 feet of this stuff turned out to be $180.00, plus $7 shipping. BOTTOM LINE: There is no question in my mind that this is NOT worth the effort nor the cost. There is no need for anybody else to perform this experiment. The data are in... don't waste time and money on composite hinges for your cowl. Please archive. Jim Tampa, FL 6A **** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible.**** ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Subject: Re: VFR concerns
just got back from my local FBO, i had 3 days scheduled to start my IFR training, sat was scrubbed as all planes were kept down. this coming thurs is scrubbed, but next sat is still on the books. any flights or training flights must have an IFR flightplan filed, is what the manager told me. i asked if the instructor would get the flight plan filed and we could go do some training, but i think he was getting uncomfortable with the idea, and probably made a phone call after i left. he said he would contact me if sat would still be a go. scott tampa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Subject: Re: list hero
Listers, through a private e-mail from my buddy Jim Norman, i learned he was at the scene and like his true nature gave assistance, as the nice guy he is. WAY TO GO JIM !!! below is what he said scott tampa Yep, I was there. Volunteered as a trauma surgeon (I used to be one of the 5 trained trauma surgeons in Tampa). I've cut this stupid Sam James Cowl into about 20 pieces, and have glued them all back together again. This weekend I had to cut the air scoop off and put it in a different place. What a pain! jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca>
Subject: white rocker switches
Date: Sep 17, 2001
- I am looking for reasonably priced white color rocker switches for my RV9. I have found some from several of the typical avionics sources (no names here....) but the prices are rediculous! ($45-60 per switch!!!) I like the look of a light color switch in a darkened cockpit but the black switches from ACS are looking better all the time. Kim Nicholas RV9 fuse Seattle Hi Kim Try Wicks,- catalog page 133, $5 to $10 range. Much more time consuming to make those rectangular holes with small drill bit and file, but they sure look nice in my flat black panel. George McNutt Langley, B.C. (6A) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Subject: Re: VFR concerns
From: james freeman <flyeyes(at)bellsouth.net>
This probably isn't helping our case any.....:-( AAI IIC: **** 09/17/2001 Preliminary Accident/Incident Data Record 3 **** A. Type: A Mid Air: N Missing: N Entry date: 09/17/2001 From: WESTERN PACIFIC REGION OPERATIONS CENTER B. Reg. No.: 4312Q M/M: C172 Desc: 172, P172, R172, Skyhawk, Hawk Activity: Pleasure Phase: Unknown GA-A/C: General Aviation Descr: ACFT CRASHED INTO A HOUSE UNDER UNKNOWN CIRCUMSTANCES AND WAS DESTROYED, THE PILOT/SOLE OCCUPANT SUFFERED FATAL INJURIES, NO GROUND INJURIES WERE REPORTED, BUT THE EXTENT OF GROUND DAMAGE IS UNKNOWN, TUCSON, AZ. WX: UNKN Damage: Destroyed C2. Injury Data: # Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: D. Location. City: TUCSON State: AZ Country: US E. Event Date: 09/16/2001 Time: 1445 F. Invest Coverage. IIC: Reg/DO: WP07 DO City: SCOTTSDALE DO State: AZ Others: NTSB G. Flt Handling. Dep Pt: LA CHOLLA, AZ Dep Date: 09/16/2001 Time: Dest: UNKN Last Radio Cont: NONE Flt Plan: NONE Last Clearance: NONE WX Briefing: U Other: ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com>
Subject: Carbon Hinge for Cowl
Date: Sep 17, 2001
No performance issues since my plane is still taking up valuable space in the garage. However, for $200 I'm not sure how much help they can be. From your standpoint, I guess it depends on where you are breaking your hinge islets (if they break at all). They are no easier to put on than the hinges, and, if you have them a bit miss-aligned (as another post suggested) then you are screwed. jim Tampa -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 3:50 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Carbon Hinge for Cowl I have been considering replacing the aluminum hinge on my -4 with fiberglass hinge as soon as I start breaking eyelets. I am confused by your conclusion that the fiberglass hinges are not worth the effort and cost. Do you have some performance issues/data that you can share with us? Dean Pichon RV-4 (25hrs) Arlington, MA |--------+----------------------------------> | | "Jim Norman, MD" | | | | | | Sent by: | | | owner-rv-list-server@mat| | | ronics.com | | | | | | | | | 09/17/01 01:24 PM | | | Please respond to | | | rv-list | | | | |--------+----------------------------------> | | | To: | | cc: | | bcc: | | Subject: RV-List: Carbon Hinge for Cowl | All, Twice in the past year I have brought up the concept of using a carbon-fiber hinge as a potential "better" way to put our cowl halves together. I could find nobody who had done this, so.... I did it. This is a report. First, there is both carbon fiber and fiberglass hinge material available. Here is the website of the stuff I used: www.carbinge.com The product itself is very nice, very precise, very light. I am using camlocks across the top and bottom of the firewall, metal hinges along the sides of the firewall, and carbon fiber hinges along the cowl halves. Specifically, I used carbon fiber hinge along both sides where the top and bottom come together. They recommend using a rivet or two at each end to prevent the bonded-on hinge from ever "pealing" away from the cowl (but I used rivets spaced every 4 inches to make myself feel better). Once bonded on, it is quite nice, seems to be "one" with the fiberglass cowl itself, and should never break since it can flex just a bit more than the aluminum hinge can. HOWEVER, the cost for 7 feet of this stuff turned out to be $180.00, plus $7 shipping. BOTTOM LINE: There is no question in my mind that this is NOT worth the effort nor the cost. There is no need for anybody else to perform this experiment. The data are in... don't waste time and money on composite hinges for your cowl. Please archive. Jim Tampa, FL 6A **** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible.**** ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: VFR concerns
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Another way to find your senators and reps is: www.house.gov and www.senate.gov I email all of mine tis morning. Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA HR-II, engine running now, taxi tests soon, flying ever?????? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: VFR concerns
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Pilot dies as plane hits garage Jim Davis / Staff Northwest Fire District firefighters search through the wreckage of a small private plane that crashed into a residence. Although the garage was destroyed, the rest of the home escaped damage. Jim Davis / Staff Gloria Waddill, widow of crash victim James Kenneth Waddill, is comforted by friend Linda DiBella during a meeting with the press. Woman in N.W. Side home is unhurt; ailing man had not flown since 1995 By Joseph Barrios and Thomas Stauffer ARIZONA DAILY STAR James Waddill did not file a flight plan. A Tucson man who had not flown an airplane since 1995 died Sunday when his single-engine Cessna crashed into the garage of a Northwest Side home. A woman in the home escaped injury. Although investigators had not determined what caused the crash, the pilot's wife fears he made the flight to prove he could still pilot an airplane despite worsening health problems. James Kenneth Waddill, 64, of the 3200 block of West Ina Road, died at the scene of the crash at 7150 N. Omar Drive. The house is just south of Ina and west of La Cholla Boulevard. Waddill's wife, Gloria Waddill, said her husband bought the four-seat plane several years ago but never flew it and had not flown an airplane since 1995. The Cessna 172L had not been flown in more than five years, said Richard Rowland, an investigator with the Federal Aviation Administration, which is investigating the crash. LaVonne Ruffner, who was inside her home when the plane hit the garage, was not injured. She is staying with relatives, said Katy Heiden, a spokeswoman for the Northwest Fire District. Rowland said the Cessna left La Cholla Airpark, a private airstrip surrounded by houses in Tortolita, at about 7:30 a.m. Waddill did not file a flight plan, Rowland said. Under FAA regulations in place Sunday, all general aviation flights are required to have a flight plan, and pilots are required to be in contact with control towers. All private flights were grounded Tuesday after the terrorist attacks in Washington, D.C., and New York City. As of Wednesday, private flights were restored under Instrument Flight Rules, said Mary Walker, president of La Cholla Airpark. "To fly IFR, you have to have a flight plan and FAA clearance," Walker said. "The flight plan basically tells the aircraft identification and type, destination, time, and route. The pilot and the aircraft also have to be certified in IFR, and you have to have certain equipment." It was not immediately known Sunday if Waddill was certified to fly IFR. About 20 planes use the Northwest Side air park daily under normal Visual Flight Rules, but that number has shrunk to one or two flights a day under the FAA's new directives, she said. Waddill's airplane flew over the Northwest Side for about a half-hour before crashing, Walker said. After several unsuccessful attempts to contact Waddill, the La Cholla control tower called Tucson International Airport for help, said Deputy Steve Easton, a Pima County Sheriff's Department spokesman. An Army National Guard helicopter, already in the air for training, was called to the area to watch over the airplane, Easton said. Just before 8 a.m., witnesses said they saw the airplane make a turn and head down. Glenna Young was driving west on Ina Road to her church when she saw the airplane tilt and fall below the horizon. Then she saw columns of smoke billow into the sky. She kept on driving and did not return until after she went to church. "I didn't stop. I was frightened. Because of events taking place this week, I was nervous; I wanted to stay away," Young said. Northwest firefighters received a call of a plane crashing into a house at 7:58 a.m., Heiden said. Ten fire vehicles and 42 firefighters responded. "They were able to confine the flames pretty much to the garage," Heiden said. "The garage is gone, but the house is still there." Joe Rowles lives across the street from the damaged house. Usually an early riser, he had just awakened when he heard the explosion. Rowles said he had a chance to talk to the house's owner and said she was doing all right. Ruffner could not be reached for comment. FBI agents were called to the scene because of concern that it might be a terrorist act or related to Tuesday's attacks in New York and Washington, said Special Agent Ed Hall, an FBI spokesman. The investigation was turned over to the Sheriff's Department when it was determined not to be related. Gloria Waddill said her husband told her when he left home Sunday that he was going to put some wheel coverings on the airplane. "I've been telling him he can't be up in the air anymore. I guess I shouldn't have been telling him stuff like that because he was going to prove to me he could still fly, damn it," said Waddill, an officer with the Arizona Department of Corrections. James Waddill, who carried an oxygen tank with him, suffered from emphysema and high blood pressure. Investigators will try to determine if Waddill had a medical emergency or mechanical problems, or if he was trying to land the plane. Rowland said it was possible that Waddill's plane may have had engine trouble, based on statements from witnesses who said they heard the plane sputtering. The Cessna was built in 1971 and was registered in Waddill's name on Jan. 14, 1999, according to FAA records. Waddill had a private pilot's license, which was to expire in April 2002. But investigators said the plane had not been flown since 1995 and was last refueled in July. This was the second tragedy to befall the Waddills this year. On July 31, their Northwest Side home was destroyed by fire. James Waddill worked for about 40 years as a diesel mechanic at various Tucson-area businesses. He is also survived by a daughter and a son. ----- Original Message ----- From: "james freeman" <flyeyes(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 3:44 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: VFR concerns This probably isn't helping our case any.....:-( AAI IIC: **** 09/17/2001 Preliminary Accident/Incident Data Record 3 **** A. Type: A Mid Air: N Missing: N Entry date: 09/17/2001 From: WESTERN PACIFIC REGION OPERATIONS CENTER B. Reg. No.: 4312Q M/M: C172 Desc: 172, P172, R172, Skyhawk, Hawk Activity: Pleasure Phase: Unknown GA-A/C: General Aviation Descr: ACFT CRASHED INTO A HOUSE UNDER UNKNOWN CIRCUMSTANCES AND WAS DESTROYED, THE PILOT/SOLE OCCUPANT SUFFERED FATAL INJURIES, NO GROUND INJURIES WERE REPORTED, BUT THE EXTENT OF GROUND DAMAGE IS UNKNOWN, TUCSON, AZ. WX: UNKN Damage: Destroyed C2. Injury Data: # Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: D. Location. City: TUCSON State: AZ Country: US E. Event Date: 09/16/2001 Time: 1445 F. Invest Coverage. IIC: Reg/DO: WP07 DO City: SCOTTSDALE DO State: AZ Others: NTSB G. Flt Handling. Dep Pt: LA CHOLLA, AZ Dep Date: 09/16/2001 Time: Dest: UNKN Last Radio Cont: NONE Flt Plan: NONE Last Clearance: NONE WX Briefing: U Other: ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Subject: I spoke w/ AOPA this Morning about VFR
I called AOPA this morning to see what they could tell me about the resumption of VFR flight. Here's the gist of the conversation: 1) When IFR was reinstated, it was suggested that it will help get VFR reinstated if pilots behave. Don't be tempted to go VFR joy riding until the NOTAM is revoked. That sort of behavior will only delay things. 2) AOPA is unaware of any laundry list of items that "the powers that be" want changed before VFR is reinstated. This is a good thing. 3) AOPA hasn't been told (or at least isn't telling) what the decision process is being used to decide when we get to go flying again. To me, that is a bad thing. Kyle Boatright 0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider Kennesaw, GA http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Subject: Re: Message to my representative
In a message dated 9/16/01 2:08:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time, CW9371(at)aol.com writes: > Just give people a break, this will all be sorted out and everything > will be fine. > > CW I surely hope you are right about that. In the meantime, I hope we don't see too many FBO's go south. Although I cannot presently fly, I am more concerned about the FBO's, A&P's, etc. Here's to hoping this doesn't last long enough to cause any real lasting harm. Jim Nice WA State Trying to be patient, but just barely managing. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Subject: Re: Rotating Map/Panel Light wanted
mark i just got 2 in the mail today from vans, i'll check to see what color they are tommorrow as they are at my office. scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Subject: Re: VFR concerns
In a message dated 09/17/2001 6:53:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ABAYMAN(at)aol.com writes: > with all due respect, lets let them get a handle on the situation. at my > home > airport, if you don't turn base really quick, you would be in McDill AFB > airspace, ( Central Command for the Middle East ) . i doubt seriously if > they > could stop someone with ill intent from reaching any buildings they desired > and I want to understand yours, Scott. How does IFR-only reduce this threat? Today I spoke with an aviator who lives just down the road a piece. I wanted to commiserate with a fellow grounded flyer. He informed me he was anything but grounded and had made an interstate flight only this week end. Mind you, his airstrip is private, and his plane is not transponder-equipped (he charges his batteries on the ground, not from the engine.) He was aware of the VFR prohibition, but adamant that if we capitulate to "the Arabs" on this score, they have won. He believes the Feds are too busy patrolling the large cities to bother with him, and knows they neverseemed able to track him on radar as a primary target even when he was in radio contact with approach at the nearby major airport. Besides, how could they tell he was not an agricultural flight, not subject to the ban? (I pointed out that ag flights are now again grounded.) Furthermore, he pointed out that there was no way the authorities could stop him from putting two drums of avgas in the back of the (distinctive airplane name deleted to protect his identity) and plowing into a nearby large metropolitan building if that was ever his intent. No one's reaction time is that fast, and no force can patrol everywhere at once. He reminded me that there is also no protection whatsoever against the hypothetical non-terrorist airline pilot who stresses out, decides "to hell with life, let's end it all with a big bang" and duplicates Tuesday's horror on his own. A government that promises such protection speaks lies, and citizens who clamor for government to protect them from every conceivable threat want badly to be lied to. Problem is, they will trade away their rights (and the rights of "those private pilots" even more glibly) to gain that false promise of security. If no one believes that living free is worth living with risks, then how can we expect Americans in uniform to risk their lives in defense of the free folks back home? It is an oxymoronic proposition. The airliners, each one now a potential flying bomb, are first to retake to the the skies over America, while Mom and Pop and their family aerial touring cars remain grounded. Our government has got it quite backwards, calling evil good, and good evil, if you will. Depending on your level of cynicism, the government's getting its act backwards is either a sign of terrorist victory, or a signal that, despite the attack, it's back to business as usual at the federal level. Either way, it isn't pretty. To paraphrase a popular 2nd amendment bumper sticker: When they take away VFR, the terrorists will rent a car. When they return VFR, the terrorists will continue to rent cars. They love cars. Suicide car bombing is a way of life for these people. Here's another: If you take away my small single engine airplane, what will I use to launch terror strikes on empty garages in northwest Tucson?! I might add that I'm in this discussion for the principle of the thing, as I have disassembled my RV to non-flying status for a few weeks to get new wheel pants and gear legs, etc, installed. I do, however, believe that ideas have consequences and this particular principle is highly, highly important. A classic case of honorable Americans getting lost in the low signal to noise ratio of the present crisis, and trampled in the name of national interest. -bill b ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: OPT-1 Question/Problem (?) Long
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Long, so DELETE now if you're not interested. This is a follow-up on my previous post regarding high oil temperatures (?) and the question of the Electronics International OPT-1 oil temp/oil pressure gauge being accurate or not. (Read around 29 degrees higher than the older unit I was using for six years.) Putting the EI unit's sensor into boiling water and letting it 'cook' for about 5-minutes gave a reading of 189 degrees, when the local altimeter was 30.37 (should have read 212.83-degrees F.) EI asked for the unit back to check it. They called this afternoon and said they could find nothing amiss. They are sending a replacement sensor and the connecting cable (thermocouple wire) so see if that will correct the problem. In the meantime I asked Pacific Oil Cooler Service what it would cost to have my Niagara 20002A oil cooler cleaned, a 7-row unit, in case that was somehow involved. The quote I got was $144. I opted instead to pay $205 for a NEW Aero-Classic's 90-row cooler (see their web site at www.aero-classic.com or look up Pacific Oil Cooler Services' web site...they're now selling the Aero Classic at what is said to be a significant introductory price. Performance charts at those web sites show the Aero Classic to be as good or superior to the Niagara. I also insured my baffles were tight, made a larger plenum that feeds the oil cooler, hoping for better air distribution over the face of the cooler. I added a heat shield on the Vetterman cross-over exhaust forward of the oil sump to keep radiant heat from the exhaust pipe from adding to sump temperatures. I checked the Vernatherm...it opens a bit more than Lycoming calls for, so that is not the problem. I moved some electronic ignition spark plug cables that might have had a minor effect on the air entering the SCAT tube to the oil cooler. I removed and visually inspected both the -8 oil tubes to the oil cooler...no rubber 'flaps' or other obstructions. I checked that a 7/8th inch plug at the accessory body/oil filter adapter did not have a spring and plunger installed. It did not. Oil screen was serviced, and no problems there. Now all I need is the OK to fly FR and we'll see if something worked. More later. John at Salad, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net>
Subject: Re: studs too short for prop governor
Date: Sep 17, 2001
> I tried to mount a McCauley prop governor to an Aero Sport O-320 and the > mounting studs are too short. snip >What is the best source for longer studs? Should they be installed with Loctite 271 Stud > Lock? > > Chris Heitman > These are not generic studs as are available from a bolt supply. I got some longer studs from El Reno Aviation, El Reno, OK. They had really good service. Phone 405-262-2387. They are on the field at El Reno (99F). Slightly expensive but what Lycoming part isn't. I used red Locktite - hope I don't ever have to take them out. Stan Blanton RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: OPT-1 Question/Problem (?) Long
Date: Sep 17, 2001
> This is a follow-up on my previous post regarding high oil temperatures (?) > and the question of the Electronics International OPT-1 oil temp/oil > pressure gauge being accurate or not. (Read around 29 degrees higher than > the older unit I was using for six years.) Putting the EI unit's sensor into > boiling water and letting it 'cook' for about 5-minutes gave a reading of > 189 degrees, when the local altimeter was 30.37 (should have read > 212.83-degrees F.) > > EI asked for the unit back to check it. They called this afternoon and said > they could find nothing amiss. They are sending a replacement sensor and the > connecting cable (thermocouple wire) so see if that will correct the > problem. John, They said there was "nothing amiss", did they check it in boiling water or somehow check the calibration? Will you repeat the boiling water test on the new sensor? Please do and let us know. Thanks, Randy Lervold www.rv-8.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: studs too short for prop governor
Date: Sep 17, 2001
----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 8:50 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: studs too short for prop governor Why? a little heat around 5-600 degrees F will unlock them. Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh I used red Locktite - hope I don't ever have to take them out. Stan Blanton RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com>
Subject: VFR concerns
Date: Sep 17, 2001
I just spent the past weekend with an instructor getting my IFR proficiency back to some level. (I was no longer current) My instructor filed (had me do it for him as he watched and listened) a flight plan that the everyone from the FAA gladly accomodated (FSS, Tower, ATC). I think part of it was that they WANTED something to do so as not to get bored staring at empty screens ;-)! Seriously, they we all most helpful GIVEN that I was on a bona fide IFR plan. They knew EXACTLY where I was supposed to be (and was) at ALL times. I must admit that I got a little bit jittery when they vectored me in the direction of the home base for a whole gaggle of F-16's! All was cool though. Now I must ALSO say that they are SERIOUS! You are to monitor 121.5 and brush up on Chapter 5.6 (I think)... as in intercept procedures. If you have not, I suggest it .... just in case. The reason is we did in fact hear at least one aircraft (a Bonanza) being instructed on 121.5 to LAND NOW! Don't know if the F-16's scrambled or not as this was toward the end of my getting "proficient" and I was politely "cleared for the ILS". Bottom line: They really do mean NO VFR and they are very accomodating for the few IFR GA planes that *are* up there. This was done on Saturday and on Sunday. James Making sure I am up to snuff ... just in case. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ABAYMAN(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 4:18 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: VFR concerns just got back from my local FBO, i had 3 days scheduled to start my IFR training, sat was scrubbed as all planes were kept down. this coming thurs is scrubbed, but next sat is still on the books. any flights or training flights must have an IFR flightplan filed, is what the manager told me. i asked if the instructor would get the flight plan filed and we could go do some training, but i think he was getting uncomfortable with the idea, and probably made a phone call after i left. he said he would contact me if sat would still be a go. scott tampa ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2001
From: old ogre <jollyd(at)ipns.com>
Subject: how would?
I wonder how a RV would look with 50 cal guns, and bomb racks...might come in handy...HOPE NOT...seriously tho...has anyone put a belly tank for gas on a RV?... finished painting..almost RV8A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: OPT-1 Question/Problem (?) Long
Date: Sep 17, 2001
No, Randy, they check it across the temperature range with voltages on their test bench. Yes, I will re-check the boiling water test with the new sensor also. Their tech man, very helpful and friendly, said that there is also a possibility that the thermocouple wires could be at fault inasmuch as they are described them as a bit 'brittle' in nature. John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: Paint Help
Date: Sep 17, 2001
> try 1500 wet sand & compound off with a glaze. I use ruber-Seal RS6 on > base-clear coat. I don't know if that will work for the SW. You can wet sand a single stage solid color but not a metallic. It cannot be cut into at all. The metallic flakes show immediately. I tried wiping it with gunwash thinner and it ruined the paint. I chose a single stage paint as it is lighter in weight. The downside is that it cannot be applied by an amateur. It needs a pro in a seriously clean booth. What you shoot is what you get. No touch ups possible. If I were doing it again I would go with a base coat clear coat two stage paint. It is much more forgiving. Imperfections can be wet-sanded out. Scratches can be buffed out later in life. I would attempt my own paint job with a two stage paint. More help needed, how can I get some splatters of oil based house paint off my metallic Sherwin Williams Sunfire single stage paintjob? Thanks, Norman Hunger ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Camille Hawthorne" <camillehawthorne(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: I spoke w/ AOPA this Morning about VFR
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Part 137 ops (agricultural) were reinstated and then revoked. What was the pointin that? I'm a CFII who is anticipating a lean paycheck next month. And what about the FBOs whosell avgas to GA aircraft? It's not likethese types of operations canafford to takesuch a hit right now. These (myself included) people are in the business because they love what they do. I would like to encourage everyone to bediligent to support your local CFI/FBO etc. when the restrictions are lifted. Know how to make a million in aviation? Start with two million. Camille Hawthorne CFII, RV-7 wings N5YR -- RV-List message posted by: KBoatri144(at)aol.com I called AOPA this morning to see what they could tell me about the resumption of VFR flight. Here's the gist of the conversation: 1) When IFR was reinstated, it was suggested that it will help get VFR reinstated if pilots behave. Don't be tempted to go VFR joy riding until the NOTAM is revoked. That sort of behavior will only delay things. 2) AOPA is unaware of any laundry list of items that "the powers that be" want changed before VFR is reinstated. This is a good thing. 3) AOPA hasn't been told (or at least isn't telling) what the decision process is being used to decide when we get to go flying again. To me, that is a bad thing. Kyle Boatright 0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider Kennesaw, GA http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AV8TURDON(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 17, 2001
Subject: Re: Message to my representative
I totally agree with what you say about FBO's and A&P's. I'm optimistic that by the end of the week we will know something. If we don;t then we should write to everyone that has anything to do with all this. As for your patience Jim, your doing just great. Don ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: Re: Carbon Hinge for Cowl
In a message dated 9/17/01 1:48:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com writes: << I have been considering replacing the aluminum hinge on my -4 with fiberglass hinge as soon as I start breaking eyelets. I am confused by your conclusion that the fiberglass hinges are not worth the effort and cost. Do you have some performance issues/data that you can share with us? >> Stainless steel hinge is readily available in the same sizes as the aluminum. Available from McMaster-Carr (see Yeller Pages). For the one half of one section on my plane that broke the aluminum ones, changing to the stainless has solved the problem for the last 250 hrs. -GV (RV-6A N1GV) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Printing Labels on Wire...
In a message dated 9/17/01 2:04:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bertrv6(at)yahoo.com writes: << I was planning to do same, but cannot find clear heat shrink tubing, for the 18 gauges wires I have mostly. I found some clear, but is just plastic, does not shrink at all, as is with the regular shrinking tubing. Any suggestions on this? >> Both clear and standard resistor color code (blk,brn,red,orn,yel,grn,blu,vio,gra,wht) shrink sleeving are available from common sources of supply (Radio Shack, Digikey, Mouser, etc.). The normal inexpensive stuff is just a single wall radiation crosslinked polyolefin that will shrink 2:1. Other types are available that have a meltable inner liner that will flow and seal and there are even some that will shrink 3:1. Better grades of clear are available. Kynar polyvinylidene fluoride (PVF) is one of the best for temperature and abrasion resistance but is somewhat more expensive. -GV (RV-6A N1GV) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2001
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, rocket-list(at)matronics.com, kolb-list(at)matronics.com, zenith-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com, lancair-list(at)matronics.com, cessna-list(at)matronics.com, beech-list(at)matronics.com, cadet-list(at)matronics.com, avionics-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com, homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: God Bless America Apparel
Can any of well known list posters vouch for this guy and I don't mean one of his friends. Unless someone we know on the list can vouch for him I wouldn't provide my CC# to anyone coming a knocking without knowing without knowing who your doing business and that it a legitimate business. Anyone can put up a web page and look real. jerryb >--> Kolb-List message posted by: ClearProp1(at)aol.com > > > > >Sure, I am planning on sending a dollar from every shirts sold to both the >Fire Fighters Foundation and the Red Cross. > >A few responses have indicated that I did not give a way to purchase these >items. Items can be purchased either over the phone, fax, or email by >forwarding your name, address, phone number and credit card for purchases. Or >you can send a check to: > >Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc. >2731 SE Taiwinds Rd. >Jupiter, FL 33478 > >Items being sold are: > >White T-shirts >Denim Blue hats >White Polo Shirts >Ash polo shirts > >All are beautifully embroidered with the American Flag and "God Bless >America". > >Thank you for all your responses!! > > >Scott Brown >Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc. > >phone: 561-748-2420 Fax: 561-748-6980 > >Visit us at www.six-shooters.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Coonan" <gcoonan(at)home.com>
Subject: VFR concerns
Date: Sep 17, 2001
What frightens me the most, is that the same logic that believes that not allowing plastic knives and restricting curbside check-in equates to safe skies are deciding how to ensure public safety in regard to VFR. Monday (Sept. 10)I took a friend who has never been in a small plane for a ride. The sun was setting over Nashville as we soared over outskirts of downtown. My passenger was commenting on how beautiful the silhouette of the city looked from our vantage point. As prophetic as my next statement was, who could ever imagine that it could very well come true. I said "the coolest thing about flying . . . is the freedom of going anywhere we want." I regularly take people for rides with no particular destination in mind, just to experience the feeling of free flying, I hope this freedom is not gone. Being patient, but growing more and more concerned everyday. Gary Coonan Rockvale, TN RV-7 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James E. Clark Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 9:33 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: VFR concerns I just spent the past weekend with an instructor getting my IFR proficiency back to some level. (I was no longer current) My instructor filed (had me do it for him as he watched and listened) a flight plan that the everyone from the FAA gladly accomodated (FSS, Tower, ATC). I think part of it was that they WANTED something to do so as not to get bored staring at empty screens ;-)! Seriously, they we all most helpful GIVEN that I was on a bona fide IFR plan. They knew EXACTLY where I was supposed to be (and was) at ALL times. I must admit that I got a little bit jittery when they vectored me in the direction of the home base for a whole gaggle of F-16's! All was cool though. Now I must ALSO say that they are SERIOUS! You are to monitor 121.5 and brush up on Chapter 5.6 (I think)... as in intercept procedures. If you have not, I suggest it .... just in case. The reason is we did in fact hear at least one aircraft (a Bonanza) being instructed on 121.5 to LAND NOW! Don't know if the F-16's scrambled or not as this was toward the end of my getting "proficient" and I was politely "cleared for the ILS". Bottom line: They really do mean NO VFR and they are very accomodating for the few IFR GA planes that *are* up there. This was done on Saturday and on Sunday. James Making sure I am up to snuff ... just in case. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ABAYMAN(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 4:18 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: VFR concerns just got back from my local FBO, i had 3 days scheduled to start my IFR training, sat was scrubbed as all planes were kept down. this coming thurs is scrubbed, but next sat is still on the books. any flights or training flights must have an IFR flightplan filed, is what the manager told me. i asked if the instructor would get the flight plan filed and we could go do some training, but i think he was getting uncomfortable with the idea, and probably made a phone call after i left. he said he would contact me if sat would still be a go. scott tampa ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2001
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Paint Help
Perhaps some clarification of Norman's post might be helpful to builders still contemplating the painting process (Norman, straighten me out if I mis-characterize your comments). A metallic paint, single or two stage, is much more challenging to the paint novice than a non-metallic finish. Not only is it difficult to repair as Norman found, but it requires much more care in application to insure that the metallic particles are thoroughly mixed and suspended in the paint pot and the paint is applied evenly. For the local builders who seek my recommendations on paint, I strongly suggest they avoid metallic paints if they have little painting experience. The stuff costs more too! :-) Many single stage non-metallic paints can very easily be wet-sanded for repair, touch-up, and goof removal. I think Norman's comment "No touch ups possible" refer to his experience with metallic paint. As a general rule, two-stage (base coat/clear coat) finishes are more difficult to repair than single stage non-metallic finishes. However, two-stage finishes (metallic and non-metallic) can be wet-sanded for a great finish as long as the sanding doesn't cut into the base coat, and as long as the base coat was applied nicely. So......if you have painting experience, go with whichever process cranks your tractor. If you, like me, have limited paint experience, and you want the most forgiving paint process, go with a single-stage non-metallic finish. Sam Buchanan (RV-6, grounded until ???? or until I install the new IFR EFIS-loaded panel.....you better get your instrument rating if you haven't already............) "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal ===============------------------ Norman wrote: > > > > try 1500 wet sand & compound off with a glaze. I use ruber-Seal RS6 on > > base-clear coat. I don't know if that will work for the SW. > > You can wet sand a single stage solid color but not a metallic. It cannot be > cut into at all. The metallic flakes show immediately. I tried wiping it > with gunwash thinner and it ruined the paint. > > I chose a single stage paint as it is lighter in weight. The downside is > that it cannot be applied by an amateur. It needs a pro in a seriously clean > booth. What you shoot is what you get. No touch ups possible. If I were > doing it again I would go with a base coat clear coat two stage paint. It is > much more forgiving. Imperfections can be wet-sanded out. Scratches can be > buffed out later in life. I would attempt my own paint job with a two stage > paint. > > More help needed, how can I get some splatters of oil based house paint off > my metallic Sherwin Williams Sunfire single stage paintjob? > > Thanks, Norman Hunger ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2001
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2001
From: "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net>
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, kolb-list(at)matronics.com, zenith-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com, lancair-list(at)matronics.com, cessna-list(at)matronics.com, beech-list(at)matronics.com, cadet-list(at)matronics.com, avionics-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com, homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: God Bless America Apparel
OK, I take back the fact they don't have prices...I did find some prices on the site for some school jerseys. My mistake. Still don't think this is the forum to promote your business for profit, though. Chris Still cynical ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: FLY
Date: Sep 17, 2001
I finally flew today for the first time since all this chaos. Despite needing to go IFR, and despite specific admonitions that "pilots will not be able to cancel IFR", it was a breeze. The controllers were helpful, if not a little tense, and I was able to fly the visual approach 3 out of 4 times (the instrument approach was actually necessary that one time). And as far as I'm concerned, flying the visual is pretty much the same as cancelling IFR -- in terms of how you end up flying. Arrivals don't really need to be long, drawn-out processes. Granted, only one of the normally 4 GA gates was open at John Wayne today. At the one open gate, there was a sheriff inspecting everybody's IDs (driver's & pilot's license) as well as the contents of the trunk. It only took a few seconds. Anyway, I encourage IFR capable pilots to get out there and exercise your rights, exercise the system, and enjoy yourselves. Despite a hint of the "am I doing something wrong?" feeling (and not being able to help occasionally scanning for intercepting military jets), it's worth it to get up there and do what we love to do, making a statement to anybody who's watching that we're not going to stop flying just because some freaks of morality took probability to the extreme. General aviation is the same as it has always been...if we make it so. Have fun, and FLY. )_( Dan dan(at)rvproject.com http://www.rvproject.com N747DC (RV-7 being built) N201DD (Mooney 201 being flown) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TColeE(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: Re: VFR concerns
In a message dated 9/17/01 3:52:14 PM Central Daylight Time, t.gummo(at)verizon.net writes: << www.senate.gov >> Well just dispatched letters to my Representative and Senators. Just had to vent. Feel better, Might do it again tomorrow. Abilene next week. Terry E. Cole N468TC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michel Gordillo" <michell(at)arrakis.es>
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Printing Labels on Wire...
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Check at big electronic components stores. They do have clear retractable self sticking tubes you can use even with gage as low as 22 It is expensive but worth. I used it in my avionics installation. Have a look at www.rs-components.com Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "bert murillo" <bertrv6(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 11:02 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Avionics-List: Printing Labels on Wire... > > > --- Cy Galley wrote: > > > > > > If you use a "laser" type printer, water is not a > > factor!! > > > > Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, > > Oshkosh > > Editor, EAA Safety Programs > > cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org > > > > Cy: > I was planning to do same, but cannot find > clear heat=-shrink tubin, for the 18 gauges wires > I have mostly. > I found some clear, but is just plastic, does not > shrink at all, altought is with the regular shrinking > tubin.. > Any suggestions on this? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Paint Help
From: Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
08:29:27 AM I've never painted or sanded a urethane metallic but I used to always wet sand PPG Delstar Acrylic Enamel. That was a one stage paint and it would wet sand and buff to a mirror shine. Shure know what you are talking about with the color stripes (mottling) in a metallic job. Boy that can drive ya nuts. It mostly comes from painting in a climate too cold for the reducer. A cool way to get by it is to choke your gun down to just above a fog level and each pass of the gun just move the gun down about an inch until at the edge of the fan it will start to flow. In other words it takes about ten passes to cover a foot. Your arm will fall off after doing an entire car but man it sure looks good. Eric Sam Buchanan (at)matronics.com on 09/18/2001 01:00:46 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Help Perhaps some clarification of Norman's post might be helpful to builders still contemplating the painting process (Norman, straighten me out if I mis-characterize your comments). A metallic paint, single or two stage, is much more challenging to the paint novice than a non-metallic finish. Not only is it difficult to repair as Norman found, but it requires much more care in application to insure that the metallic particles are thoroughly mixed and suspended in the paint pot and the paint is applied evenly. For the local builders who seek my recommendations on paint, I strongly suggest they avoid metallic paints if they have little painting experience. The stuff costs more too! :-) Many single stage non-metallic paints can very easily be wet-sanded for repair, touch-up, and goof removal. I think Norman's comment "No touch ups possible" refer to his experience with metallic paint. As a general rule, two-stage (base coat/clear coat) finishes are more difficult to repair than single stage non-metallic finishes. However, two-stage finishes (metallic and non-metallic) can be wet-sanded for a great finish as long as the sanding doesn't cut into the base coat, and as long as the base coat was applied nicely. So......if you have painting experience, go with whichever process cranks your tractor. If you, like me, have limited paint experience, and you want the most forgiving paint process, go with a single-stage non-metallic finish. Sam Buchanan (RV-6, grounded until ???? or until I install the new IFR EFIS-loaded panel.....you better get your instrument rating if you haven't already............) "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal ===============------------------ Norman wrote: > > > > try 1500 wet sand & compound off with a glaze. I use ruber-Seal RS6 on > > base-clear coat. I don't know if that will work for the SW. > > You can wet sand a single stage solid color but not a metallic. It cannot be > cut into at all. The metallic flakes show immediately. I tried wiping it > with gunwash thinner and it ruined the paint. > > I chose a single stage paint as it is lighter in weight. The downside is > that it cannot be applied by an amateur. It needs a pro in a seriously clean > booth. What you shoot is what you get. No touch ups possible. If I were > doing it again I would go with a base coat clear coat two stage paint. It is > much more forgiving. Imperfections can be wet-sanded out. Scratches can be > buffed out later in life. I would attempt my own paint job with a two stage > paint. > > More help needed, how can I get some splatters of oil based house paint off > my metallic Sherwin Williams Sunfire single stage paintjob? > > Thanks, Norman Hunger ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2001
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: how would?
> My latest two axis camera ball is 10" in diameter and weighs > 11 lbs. > It is video only. Do you think I can get away without the aerodynamic > counterbalance? I know there should be a speed restriction but where? Hi Norman, I have similar hard points for the same purpose - although mine will be fixed. I asked the same question of my Technical Counselor at my wing pre-closing inspection - his concern was the same - asymmetrical drag. He said I could probably get away without it until I ran out of rudder. :\ I imagine that will be your limiting speed as well. Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Firewall Forward Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: VFR concerns
Date: Sep 18, 2001
snip> my point being, someone has to control the population, snip> Ooooohhhhh! You're one of those!....... I don't think you really ment that, or are you posting from an other country? Pat Perry Dallas, PA RV-4 N154PK Flew great! Getting a little impatient...and worried the terrorists achieved the goal of chipping away at our freedom. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2001
From: "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: how would?
This has been discussed many times on the list and the consensus is that 30 cal. guns are better suited to the RV series. The 50 cal. recoil is just a little to harsh on the small RV airframe. Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2001
zenith-list(at)matronics.com
From: Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net>
Subject: God Bless America Apparel
Scott Brown dba Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc. - Jupiter, Florida Your recent scattershot spamming of the entire Matronics airplane type listing is not a nice thing to do. The RV list, for example, is for messages among RV people. Matt's rules of protocol for list use specifically state that the list is not for commercial sales use. If you want to capitalize on the sudden surge of "show the flag" sentiment by selling dry goods, that is your decision. But please do not clutter up all of the Matronics airplane lists with your spam of advertising. That was not a nice thing to do. Doc Mosher Oshkosh USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Anyone know why?
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Has anyone heard a good explanation for the VFR restrictions? I originally assumed it was to limit the untraceable routes of escape for any of the terrorists associates but after one full week I can't believe a VFR restriction is helping anyone. They could have swum to Cuba by now. I am getting worried, there is no clear justification for the restriction. Pat Perry Dallas, PA RV-4 N154PK Flew great! I'm getting concerened. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bernard Banche" <bb8212(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV8a Empennage Kit for sale
Date: Sep 18, 2001
RV8A tail kit with plans for sale in the Columbus, Ohio area. The kit is in excellent condition in the origional boxes. Parts have been inventoried but the project has not been started. $1100. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com>
Subject: how would?
Date: Sep 18, 2001
I've kicked around the idea of a travel pod for my -6A, similar to what you see on Long-EZs, etc. However, after recent events and after seeing F-16s over my house numerous times, I decided that anything hanging underneath a plane that might resemble a weapon is probably a bad idea.... Cheers, Brad RV6AQ... -----Original Message----- From: old ogre [mailto:jollyd(at)ipns.com] Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 9:51 PM Subject: RV-List: how would? I wonder how a RV would look with 50 cal guns, and bomb racks...might come in handy...HOPE NOT...seriously tho...has anyone put a belly tank for gas on a RV?... finished painting..almost RV8A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kdh347(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: Re: VFR concerns--stand up and be counted
Chuck, Thats a brilliant idea. We should all fly on the 18th and the those of us who surive can put our planes on the lawn and plant flowers in them, as that will be the end of general aviation as we know it. Im not against a stand, but I'm all for giving the AOPA and EAA and our government a little time to work things out. KEN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: Re: God Bless America Apparel
doc how can you flame just 1 individual, when many on this list advertize their products here. andy gold, builders bookstore, steve? panel pilot, mike knight, knight upolstery, george orndolf, seats & videos, just to name a few,. its almost always rv related, and we support our rv community.just ones point of view. scott tampa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com>
Subject: Anyone know why?
Date: Sep 18, 2001
How about several off the top of my head : 1) More predictable traffic: When you go VFR, no one in the ARTCC or TRACON knows where you are going. 2) More security: Ashcroft has said that more attacks are a very real possibility, given what evidence they have found. While a Cessna, Cherokee, or RV wouldn't cause physical damage of the same magnitude as a 757, I suspect it would still a fair amount of psychological damage to the nation. 3) Time: The FBI investigation is in full swing and is chasing down people on commercial air traffic, trains, buses, etc. If another week helps, then so be it. Here's another point to consider: What if VFR traffic was suddenly allowed, and a terrorist (or wannabe) takes off in a Cherokee and then intentionally crashes it into something. You can bet your sweet a*s that that would be the end of VFR GA. Again, given that more terrorism is possible, this is a realistic scenario. Given that our country has come under attack, given that our service men and women will be put in harm's way in this war on terrorism, and given that thousands of lives have been lost, it seems a little soon to be writing legislators demanding that your VFR flying *privileges* be restored. Finally if you really want to go flying, file IFR (grab a CFII or an instrument rated friend if not rated) and go flying. Nobody is stopping you from doing this, and you can go anywhere you want (TFRs and prohibited areas excepted, of course). Grabbing the Nomex... Brad RV6AQ underway... -----Original Message----- From: Pat Perry [mailto:pperryrv(at)hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 8:38 AM Subject: RV-List: Anyone know why? Has anyone heard a good explanation for the VFR restrictions? I originally assumed it was to limit the untraceable routes of escape for any of the terrorists associates but after one full week I can't believe a VFR restriction is helping anyone. They could have swum to Cuba by now. I am getting worried, there is no clear justification for the restriction. Pat Perry Dallas, PA RV-4 N154PK Flew great! I'm getting concerened. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: Re: VFR concerns
pat what i was referring to was, some people, beleive it or not, have no common sense, and someone has to make rules to protect them, and the rest of us. example, if it weren't for a rule stateing that you can't fly low over densley populated areas, how many of us responsible pilots would be dive bombing our friends house in the center of a major city? or like other posters stating strapping on some armament to our rv's and have a hooting good time. yes i believe we need some guidence, some rules, some restrictions, some control over the general population, to keep everything in check. the balance of it all is what is in question. we need extremist on both sides of an issue to keep that balance. unless you have a better idea, and i for one am willing to listen. scott tampa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: Re: God Bless America Apparel
In a message dated 9/18/2001 8:13:52 AM Central Daylight Time, docshop(at)tds.net writes: > Your recent scattershot spamming of the entire Matronics airplane type > listing is not a nice thing to do. The RV list, for example, is for > messages among RV people. Matt's rules of protocol for list use > specifically state that the list is not for commercial sales use. > > If you want to capitalize on the sudden surge of "show the flag" sentiment > by selling dry goods, that is your decision. But please do not clutter up > all of the Matronics airplane lists with your spam of advertising. That > was not a nice thing to do. > > Doc Mosher > Oshkosh USA > Hate to say it Doc, but well you bombed every email list too. Scott is building a F1 rocket so we know hes is building a plane, not sure about u. But anyways, enough is enough chris wilcox oshkosh, wi F1 rocket 4 sale wanted to buy next fall f1 rocket ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Sears" <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: VFR concerns
Date: Sep 18, 2001
> I can't believe that you are demanding an organization to do things > "Your Way" when you fail to support it by dropping out!! > Poor old Cy. He's been around the EAA so long that he's totally lost sight of the real world. All one has to do is read the EAA web page and get the flavor for what I'm talking about. I think I did the right thing by dropping out. Working from within doesn't work. I tried that. With that, I'll just stick with AOPA. I hope the rest of you will join me. The organization needs our support. There is clout in numbers. Jim Sears in KY do no archive ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Jessen <jjessen(at)CMBINFO.com>
Subject: Anyone know why?
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Pat, et. al. In times of extreme crisis, people shed complexity. The reason for the shutdown is a seeming lack of control and a desire to get a handle on things. I, too, am worried about the long term consequences for GA, but I'm also not surprised that they want to control the skies to the degree they know how. Have they really got control of the skies? No. But it's one more act of trying to simplify while they deal with other crises. To many who do not know about flying, GA VFR is a luxury that can be put on hold for awhile. They don't think (or care) about all the economic consequences of those businesses that support us (AG and Corporate jets are obvious businesses and have obvious clout, at least the latter, but are also just as likely to be used for more acts of violence or escape routes...so no sense there.) or about the symbolic and real freedoms flying represents. I never thought that I would be addicted to anything like I am addicted to flying and to building my own space/time machine. But I am not that addicted that I cannot cut the government some slack during a time of extreme crisis. Shutting down VFR GA doesn't make any sense, but we'll get our air back. Give these guys a couple weeks to catch their breath. In the meantime, I'm calling up my CFI and starting my IFR lessons. His family was recently blessed with another mouth to feed, so I'm going to help make sure he stays economically busy. Just 2 cents worth... John -----Original Message----- From: Pat Perry [mailto:pperryrv(at)hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 9:38 AM Subject: RV-List: Anyone know why? Has anyone heard a good explanation for the VFR restrictions? I originally assumed it was to limit the untraceable routes of escape for any of the terrorists associates but after one full week I can't believe a VFR restriction is helping anyone. They could have swum to Cuba by now. I am getting worried, there is no clear justification for the restriction. Pat Perry Dallas, PA RV-4 N154PK Flew great! I'm getting concerened. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2001
From: TwoAviators <TwoAviators(at)lexcominc.net>
Subject: Proseal canopy?
All, I am installing canopy, and so far only thing shattered are my nerves. I have drilled the rivet holes, and can forsee the problems holding the canopy in alignment while drilling the canopy skirt. I would like to proseal or RTV the canopy to the frame, and then locate holes for skirt. When I finish rivet the skirt I'd like to proseal it on too. Has anyone done this? Has anyone not done this? Thanks Dan Ward RV8 N417SN Fitting canopy, nose cowling, wheel pants, about half finished. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AV8TURDON(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: Has anyone seen her?
Rv'rs, Has anyone seen or heard from Jean Garvey? The leader of the Federal Aviation Administration of the free world. To advise and inform those who fly as what and where we are going. I haven't, and I would sure like to. It would comfort me greatly to see my leader. I've seen everyone else all the way to the President. Does anyone know where she is? Please help me I feel so alone. In my quest to return to the sky. Maybe the EAA knows where she is. I haven't heard from them yet also. Don ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: PROCRASTINATORS UNITE
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Just went to the website and joined. I was going to wait until my RV-7 was finished to join the AOPA but this issue is more important than insurance, and financing plans, so I joined today. Phil Birkelbach RV-7 - N727WB (Reserved) - Wings Houston, Texas http://www.myrv7.com God Bless America ----- Original Message ----- From: <Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 8:47 AM Subject: RV-List: PROCRASTINATORS UNITE > > > Hi All, > > My name is Eric, and I'm a lazy procrastinator. I'm building an airplane > and it sucks cash like a bad crack habit. Everyone tells me it will be > worth it and to keep going because the "grinning" stage is so worth it. > After almost nine years of building I find that it could be possible that I > might not be allowed to get to the grinning stage. It could come to pass > that I could be financially prevented from being able to "grin" and afford > food at the same time (thanks John McCain, arrogant ring knocker). > > So today I finally got off my butt and joined AOPA, yes I know I'm an > experimental guy but I just don't see the EAA really being in the ring > fighting for our rights. That credit goes unquestionably to the AOPA. I > just feel the EAA has several other agendas and their efforts are kind of a > "me too" statement. The fact that we have one direct point of communication > with the government (Phil Boyer) pretty much convinces me that if it were > not for the efforts of the AOPA my chances of ever affordably flying my > aircraft would be diminished a great deal. > > I don't pretend to know what's going on here. Could be the government is > just temporarily slowing things down until they can slowly lift the heavy > hand and allow people to move again. Or could be that they want the > training facilities to fail so the terrorist can't get trained; here that > is. I really believe that Senator McCains' group thinks aviation should be > for airlines and the military boys. Seems pretty obvious that's the way he > thinks. There is no question, our rights as pilots are in question now. > > Anyway, if you are a procrastinator like me. And have always been torn > between the AOPA membership and that cool tool from Avery's that could > really help on your project. Now would be the time to step up and call the > AOPA (800-USA-AOPA) and lend your support to Phil Boyer. It could turn out > that you won't need the Avery tool as your RV-8 kit will make a really cool > salad bar down at the local restaurant. Its only $40.00 and you get a cool > hat to boot. > > So this is my Jerry Lewis telethon type challenge, If you want to fly some > time in the future, and you don't belong to the AOPA, I'm calling you out > in the street. You are doing it for yourself. Ya can almost hear Jerry > sing: > > " Look at him he's flyin, John McCain is cryin > Imagine recreational pilots everywhere........ > > It's your future dude. > > Eric Henson > > By the way, if any of you are on other lists or aviation groups, could you > please forward this to those lists. > Thanks > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: Belly tank
Date: Sep 18, 2001
> Has anyone put a belly tank for gas on a RV?... This was discussed (maybe found in the archives) and it was generally decided it WOULD be like carrying a small bomb. Not for civilian aircraft. It would be OK if you always landed where you wanted. If you happened to sit down in the rocks......well, you can imagine. In a jet, you can punch out. Couldn't you fashion some sort of release for the tank? Sure. More weight, more complexity, one more thing on your emergency check list, and, if it didn't release, you are still sitting on top of a little bomb. I think, unless you are crossing vast distances of uncharted teritory, that the amount of gas these aircraft carry is just about enough. I have a 2-3 hour butt, and need to get out and walk around anyway. Besides, you meet the nicest people at airports. If we could only go there. IMHO Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q REALLY wanting to get in the air. I won't do anything bad. Honest. Just let me show you. I mostly just go up to be up, you know. Say, have you ever been up in an RV? Howzabout we go up............... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: VFR concerns--stand up and be counted
When I said to support our government I meant exactly that--a reasonable amount of time would not be Sept 18 which is why I said -- not soon -- so what I mean is at the point no explanation has been given, no timetable given, that we are swept from the sky -- then it will be time for organized civil disobedience but ONLY after all other reasonable options are exhausted. When would that be---I do not know or propose to know--the aviation community will have to get together and decide when that would be. Civil disobedience works when organized and properly used but we are not---NOT---at that time yet. Let's stay calm and focused on getting our privileges returned fairly and timely through the normal channels first. JR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: VFR concerns
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Scott, I agree, the rules and procedures for all of us to follow are there for a reason. Most of them are there for our safety and the safety of others. I get very concerned when I see rules with no reason other than control. I would like to hear the security risks my aircraft imposes on the rest of the system. Brad and John brought up some things I haven't thought of. This helps me, and probably others, understand how the entire air system and national security system works and why our RV's pose a problem. I'll wait without protest as long as there are reasons. I would be very happy if I could hear the reasons from the authorities that impose the rules/restrictions. Their silence bothers me. If it continues I will use my next voting opportunity to help remove those authorities and will send my lobbying dollars to the right organizations with my point of view. In the mean time this is a good opportunity to improve our planes, make some safety checks and get that annual done. Make that modification you were putting off til later. My cowl has been off since Wednesday and the plane will be better for it, mixture cable adjusted, chaffing in-check, everything snugged down. Your post had an unsettling tone which was probably not intended, I wanted to point it out. Unwarranted control is what's wrong with other nations, not ours...yet! I hope it never is. Please dont take my reply to your post in a negative way. Pat Perry Dallas, PA RV-4 N154PK Flew great! Waiting and wondering. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2001
From: Garry LeGare <"versadek"@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Belly tank
To say nothing of a release mechanism that might malfunctioned over a populated area and permanently ground all homebuilts. Or a ramp check by an overzealous FAA inspector, could have you spending a couple of days explaining what you were intending to do with the Napalm container on your belly. No flame intended , just trying to point out that this is going to be a new world for us, and hopefully when we are once again allowed to fly, we are going to have to be a lot more careful of OTHER peoples perception of our little airplanes. Dianne and I really miss flying, but we are willing to give our government a little more time to sort things out. But it would be really nice if they gave us some kind of timetable. Of coarse then the nut cases would know when they could crawl back out from under their rocks. Garry "Casper" Still waiting, KostaLewis wrote: > > > Has anyone put a belly tank for gas on a RV?... > > This was discussed (maybe found in the archives) and it was generally > decided it WOULD be like carrying a small bomb. Not for civilian aircraft. > It would be OK if you always landed where you wanted. If you happened to sit > down in the rocks......well, you can imagine. In a jet, you can punch out. > Couldn't you fashion some sort of release for the tank? Sure. More weight, > more complexity, one more thing on your emergency check list, and, if it > didn't release, you are still sitting on top of a little bomb. > > I think, unless you are crossing vast distances of uncharted teritory, that > the amount of gas these aircraft carry is just about enough. I have a 2-3 > hour butt, and need to get out and walk around anyway. Besides, you meet the > nicest people at airports. If we could only go there. > > IMHO > > Michael > RV-4 N232 Suzie Q > REALLY wanting to get in the air. I won't do anything bad. Honest. Just let > me show you. I mostly just go up to be up, you know. Say, have you ever been > up in an RV? Howzabout we go up............... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: Wanted
From: Anthony J Castellano <tcastella(at)juno.com>
Does anyone have a Narco Nav 122 or Nav 122D that they wish to sell? Please respond to me direct or phone (845) 227-8527. Tony Castellano tcastella(at)juno.com Hopewell Junction, NY RV-6 N401TC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2001
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: Re: VFR concerns
Just a few facts and questions. The FBI has looked over all of The Ohio State University flight school training records. Who was trained, what were their names and addresses, what did they look like, how did they pay for their training, what training did they get?...........just a start............and this was only ONE flight school. All this information needs to be verified. How much damage can a small (twin) airplane full of plastic explosives do? Can four jetliners be hijacked simultaneously and cause any significant amount of damage in the US? Can biological weapons be sprayed from a small aircraft? Do you know everyone ELSE who would resume flying if VFR restrictions are lifted. Just a few questions that a little over a week ago seemed very improbable! AL > >Just got back from the local airport and heard some >2nd hand complaints about crop dusters having to >disable there spray equipment, maybe some one has the >striaght scoop on this. > Joe >RV6A O360 cp >do not archieve ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: Re: FLY
In a message dated 09/18/2001 2:31:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dan(at)rvproject.com writes: > I encourage IFR capable pilots to get out there and exercise your > rights, exercise the system, and enjoy yourselves. General aviation is the same as > it has always been...if we make it so. Oh, so VFR-only airplanes and pilots are not part of GA. I _knew_ I was missing a piece of this puzzle. NOW I get it! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JusCash(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: Re: FLY
I to had the opportunity to fly this weekend. Flew with a VFR pilot from Hayward, Ca to his home base at San Diego Gillespie. Returned with another VFR pilot trying to get home to Hayward. You VFR pilots grab an instrument rated pilot and go flying. Let him show you how flying IFR is not so much flying on the gauges as it is knowing the INSTRUMENT FLIGHT RULES "IFR". For you California pilots I heard ATC give an airplane "Cleared the visual Harris Ranch". So it looks like we can still go for the $100.00 Hamburger if we use the system. Cash Copeland RV6 Hayward, Ca In a message dated 9/17/2001 11:31:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dan(at)rvproject.com writes: > > > I finally flew today for the first time since all this chaos. Despite > needing to go IFR, and despite specific admonitions that "pilots will not be > able to cancel IFR", it was a breeze. The controllers were helpful, if not > a little tense, and I was able to fly the visual approach 3 out of 4 times > (the instrument approach was actually necessary that one time). And as far > as I'm concerned, flying the visual is pretty much the same as cancelling > IFR -- in terms of how you end up flying. Arrivals don't really need to be > long, drawn-out processes. > > Granted, only one of the normally 4 GA gates was open at John Wayne today. > At the one open gate, there was a sheriff inspecting everybody's IDs > (driver's & pilot's license) as well as the contents of the trunk. It only > took a few seconds. > > Anyway, I encourage IFR capable pilots to get out there and exercise your > rights, exercise the system, and enjoy yourselves. Despite a hint of the > "am I doing something wrong?" feeling (and not being able to help > occasionally scanning for intercepting military jets), it's worth it to get > up there and do what we love to do, making a statement to anybody who's > watching that we're not going to stop flying just because some freaks of > morality took probability to the extreme. General aviation is the same as > it has always been...if we make it so. > > Have fun, and FLY. > > )_( Dan > dan(at)rvproject.com > http://www.rvproject.com > N747DC (RV-7 being built) > N201DD (Mooney 201 being flown) > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: Re: Anyone know why?
In a message dated 09/18/2001 1:00:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bbenson(at)trane.com writes: > IFR flights are happening all the time, and only people who are > not flying right now are those who do not have an instrument ticket and not > not willing or able to take a CFII or instrument-rated friend along. You forgot to mention those unwilling to buy a commercial airline ticket and buckle in for a "flight." SOME OF US built our little ships with no provision for IFR, and we did so on purpose. If I wanted to bore a hole in clouds under constant government supervision from point A to point B with no freedom to do anything but, then I would fly IFR somehow, some way. To me, that's not flying. I'd just as soon park my self in front of a good flight sim program: just as challenging and no risk! The narrowness of your thinking here truly boggles my (grounded little VFR) mind. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com>
Subject: Anyone know why?
Date: Sep 18, 2001
??? Perhaps you're made of money, or perhaps you've never priced the boxes you need to fly IFR? > -----Original Message----- > From: Benson, Bradley [mailto:bbenson(at)trane.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 12:01 PM > To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com' > Subject: RE: RV-List: Anyone know why? > > > > > By eliminating VFR flight, they've made it easier to detect > those who might > try what you suggest from a 'local' airport. If they see a > blip pop up on > their radar, and it's not on an IFR plan, they know instantly > that something > is wrong. That seems perfectly logical to me. > > Also, your argument about keeping people away from the airports is not > accurate - IFR flights are happening all the time, and only > people who are > not flying right now are those who do not have an instrument > ticket and not > not willing or able to take a CFII or instrument-rated friend > along. Besides > that, I doubt that few (if any) of the usual hanger rats I > know would be > able to stop someone bent on taking off. They are too busy > arguing about > tail vs. nose wheels, which primer to use, etc. :-). > > Additionally, to say that grounding VFR pilots is the worst > thing the govt. > is doing seems is overstating the matter a little bit. I can > think of a > number of things that affect a *LOT* more people in *MUCH* > more serious ways > that need some attention - Social Security, School of the Americas (or > whatever it is called now), etc. > > Cheers, > Brad > RV6AQ... > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Starn [mailto:jhstarn(at)earthlink.net] > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 10:48 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; Rocket List > Subject: Re: RV-List: Anyone know why? > > IF and I say IF you were one of those guys that were thinking > of flying a > "small" plane into something and were as well heeled (lotsa > bucks) as the > WTC bombers, you would have purchased a plane before now. > Parked it close to > where you planned to die, take off and go do what you planned to do > regardless of ANY restrictions. No it's us on the ground at > airports all > over this country that will stop this from happening. We all know the > "profile" (I'm not known for one to be politically correct) > of the bad guys. > What FBO is going to hand over his keys to a nutcase?. WE > the guys at the > airport should be on allert, we are at war and the enemy is > still among us. > Keeping the good guys on the ground and away from the > airports if the worst > thing, IMHO, our goverment is doing. FAA has by its own > actions eliminated > its eyes and ears in the field at the local airports. We know > that these > guys were taking lessons, maybe IFR qualified. That means > they can still fly > but we can't. Keep the faith and stay allert. Do Not > Archive KABONG > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com>
Subject: Prop for sale
Date: Sep 18, 2001
I'm changing my plans for a prop and now have a Catto composite prop and 2 1/4" extension to sell. If you want to run one of these props and have an O-320 160 hp engine, you can save 20+ weeks of waiting. My prop will be ready next week and I already have the extension. Prop is $950.00 and extension is $175.00. Shipping not included. Greg Tanner RV-9A O-320 D1A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JusCash(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: Re: FLY
VFR, Visual Flight Rules and IFR, Instrument Flight Rules are all about rules. Learn the rules and play the game. I am not saying to go fly IFR without being rated or with an appropriately equipped aircraft. If you can find a rated pilot to fly with you and your aircraft properly equipped go flying. If you are rated and your aircraft is not equipped do what is needed to bring it into compliance. A Com Radio, Nav Receiver and Transponder could be all that you need. I can see the day when all aircraft will be required to have two way communications and a transponder as a minimum to fly VFR. Cash Copeland RV6 Hayward, Ca In a message dated 9/18/2001 11:22:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, SportAV8R(at)aol.com writes: > Oh, so VFR-only airplanes and pilots are not part of GA. I _knew_ I was > missing a piece of this puzzle. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: FLY
Date: Sep 18, 2001
I'm not IFR rated, as far as I know we can't fly IFR if we wanted to since our airport does not have IFR approaches. FAA specifically stated IFR ground to ground and NO pop-ups. I know radar can't see my plane until I'm 2000' AGL, the mountains block the pattern. We arent flying because we can't (legally) not because we don't want to go through the trouble of using the system. Pat Perry Dallas, PA RV-4 N154PK may as well be at an airport on Mars! >From: JusCash(at)aol.com >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:19:21 EDT > > >I to had the opportunity to fly this weekend. Flew with a VFR pilot from >Hayward, Ca to his home base at San Diego Gillespie. Returned with another >VFR pilot trying to get home to Hayward. >You VFR pilots grab an instrument rated pilot and go flying. Let him show >you how flying IFR is not so much flying on the gauges as it is knowing the >INSTRUMENT FLIGHT RULES "IFR". >For you California pilots I heard ATC give an airplane "Cleared the visual >Harris Ranch". So it looks like we can still go for the $100.00 Hamburger >if >we use the system. > >Cash Copeland >RV6 Hayward, Ca > >In a message dated 9/17/2001 11:31:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >dan(at)rvproject.com writes: > > > > > > I finally flew today for the first time since all this chaos. Despite > > needing to go IFR, and despite specific admonitions that "pilots will >not be > > able to cancel IFR", it was a breeze. The controllers were helpful, if >not > > a little tense, and I was able to fly the visual approach 3 out of 4 >times > > (the instrument approach was actually necessary that one time). And as >far > > as I'm concerned, flying the visual is pretty much the same as >cancelling > > IFR -- in terms of how you end up flying. Arrivals don't really need to >be > > long, drawn-out processes. > > > > Granted, only one of the normally 4 GA gates was open at John Wayne >today. > > At the one open gate, there was a sheriff inspecting everybody's IDs > > (driver's & pilot's license) as well as the contents of the trunk. It >only > > took a few seconds. > > > > Anyway, I encourage IFR capable pilots to get out there and exercise >your > > rights, exercise the system, and enjoy yourselves. Despite a hint of >the > > "am I doing something wrong?" feeling (and not being able to help > > occasionally scanning for intercepting military jets), it's worth it to >get > > up there and do what we love to do, making a statement to anybody who's > > watching that we're not going to stop flying just because some freaks of > > morality took probability to the extreme. General aviation is the same >as > > it has always been...if we make it so. > > > > Have fun, and FLY. > > > > )_( Dan > > dan(at)rvproject.com > > http://www.rvproject.com > > N747DC (RV-7 being built) > > N201DD (Mooney 201 being flown) > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2001
From: old ogre <jollyd(at)ipns.com>
Subject: Re: RV8-List: Proseal canopy?
on the first one I did the rivets...ugh!...crak!..on the next one I did the rtv bit..I sanded the frame to bare metal, and rtv'd the canopy on that....seemed to work fine...I then riveted the skirt on the frame, and ran a fiberglass tape from the skirt to the plexiglas, and that's it...seems to hold up well..the first one is flying now,with about 45hrs on it..so far no complaints...seemed to pass the inspection...since I have done this a couple more times, and it's worked out fine...good luck TwoAviators wrote: > --> RV8-List message posted by: TwoAviators > > All, > > I am installing canopy, and so far only thing shattered are my nerves. I > have drilled the rivet holes, and can forsee the problems holding the > canopy in alignment while drilling the canopy skirt. I would like to > proseal or RTV the canopy to the frame, and then locate holes for skirt. > When I finish rivet the skirt I'd like to proseal it on too. Has anyone > done this? Has anyone not done this? > > Thanks > > Dan Ward > RV8 N417SN > Fitting canopy, nose cowling, wheel pants, about half finished. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: VFR concerns--stand up and be counted
Date: Sep 18, 2001
KEN, Work out WHAT!!! Hell I'm familiar with the enforcement mentality (I've been fully sworn since 82). If.... you give up your right to privacy, give up your right to speak, your right to "Keep & Bare Arms, your rights to be free from Unreasonable Search & Seizure, I can guarantee you'll be "SAFE". Yeah... RIGHT... just like we keep those poor suckers in prisons/jails. Hell they don't have shit for rights, and someone (probably everyone there) can come Screw them in the A-s almost anytime they want. Don't fool yourself Ken, NO One can keep you safe. And giving up your freedom to breath, speak, or FLY sure as HELL ain't gonna help. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: <Kdh347(at)aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 9:21 AM Subject: Re: Fw: RV-List: VFR concerns--stand up and be counted > > Chuck, > Thats a brilliant idea. We should all fly on the 18th and the those of us who > surive can put our planes on the lawn and plant flowers in them, as that will > be the end of general aviation as we know it. Im not against a stand, but I'm > all for giving the AOPA and EAA and our government a little time to work > things out. > > KEN > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: VFR concerns
Date: Sep 18, 2001
>snip How much damage can a small (twin) airplane full of plastic explosives do? Can four jetliners be hijacked simultaneously and cause any significant amount of damage in the US? Can biological weapons be sprayed from a small aircraft? Do you know everyone ELSE who would resume flying if VFR restrictions are lifted. Just a few questions that a little over a week ago seemed very improbable >snip I don't disagree...but. I looked in amazement as a large crowed gathered last night to watch a baseball game. Of all things I thought would have to endure a temporary restriction, large gatherings of people in open areas was top of my list. Especially when the game can be televised! This is low-hanging fruit for a terrorist. Like a woodchuck sticking his head out of the hole! The GA restrictions seem out of step when stadiums full of people are OK. Pat Perry Dallas, PA RV-4 N154PK I'm about to lose my balance and fall from the soap box! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com>
Subject: Anyone know why?
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Well, I'm sorry that you can't fly at the moment. VFR flight will be back soon, and in the mean time, do something else. I really can't understand the narrow-mindedness (or selfishness, callousness, insensitivity, etc.) of people who think that the first priority is to get VFR aircraft back in the air. By your description, your flying is purely for fun and recreation. Nothing wrong with that - my flying fits that description as well. However, it is just that - recreation. If you can do it within the current limitations forced by the national emergency, great. If not, well, that's too bad. It will get better, VFR will be back. Brad RV6AQ... -----Original Message----- From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com [mailto:SportAV8R(at)aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 1:16 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Anyone know why? In a message dated 09/18/2001 1:00:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bbenson(at)trane.com writes: > IFR flights are happening all the time, and only people who are > not flying right now are those who do not have an instrument ticket and not > not willing or able to take a CFII or instrument-rated friend along. You forgot to mention those unwilling to buy a commercial airline ticket and buckle in for a "flight." SOME OF US built our little ships with no provision for IFR, and we did so on purpose. If I wanted to bore a hole in clouds under constant government supervision from point A to point B with no freedom to do anything but, then I would fly IFR somehow, some way. To me, that's not flying. I'd just as soon park my self in front of a good flight sim program: just as challenging and no risk! The narrowness of your thinking here truly boggles my (grounded little VFR) mind. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: VFR concerns
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Yep, I'm willing to listen... But they ain't said anything rational nor logical yet!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 9:58 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: VFR concerns > > pat > what i was referring to was, some people, beleive it or not, have no common > sense, and someone has to make rules to protect them, and the rest of us. > example, if it weren't for a rule stateing that you can't fly low over > densley populated areas, how many of us responsible pilots would be dive > bombing our friends house in the center of a major city? or like other > posters stating strapping on some armament to our rv's and have a hooting > good time. yes i believe we need some guidence, some rules, some > restrictions, some control over the general population, to keep everything in > check. the balance of it all is what is in question. we need extremist on > both sides of an issue to keep that balance. unless you have a better idea, > and i for one am willing to listen. > scott > tampa > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Proseal canopy?
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Dave and I used sem-weld (generic proseal) in the tubes and it has worked well. We drilled out the holes in the canopy with a #40 bit and then opened them up with a unitbit. We matched drilled the few holes on the skirt on the side (not the rear). We laid a bead of sem-weld on the frame and used clecos in the drilled holes (except for 4 ACCQP alum rivets) to hold the canopy to the frame. The shirt was attached the same way. The extra holes in the skirt were filled when we painted it. So far (16 hours) no problems and have not seen any indications of stress on any area of the canopy. Good Building, Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A (16 hrs) Niantic, CT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jim hurd" <hurd(at)boernenet.com>
Subject: Re: FLY
Date: Sep 18, 2001
> You VFR pilots grab an instrument rated pilot and go flying OK, I know I can get clearance for an IFR departure out of my non-approved-approach airfield. And (in severe clear) I'll probably get direct routing. Now how do I get back? Don't I have to file the return to a destination with an approved approach to get the IFR clearance? Sure don't want to count on the kindness of a controller letting me amend in-air. Or pulling some stunt like saying I have a rough engine and need to, "get down right about here." Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: VFR in Alaska
Date: Sep 18, 2001
This from AOPA's website: Meeting to discuss VFR operations rescheduled for this afternoon 9/18/01 3:41:46 PM - A morning meeting that was supposed to discuss VFR operations was rescheduled to 3 p.m. this afternoon. VFR operations are still prohibited everywhere except Alaska. (see story <http://www.aopa.org/page_2.html> .) National security officials have not indicated when they might make a decision on restoring some VFR operations. Can any aviators in Alaska confirm that VFR is okay up there? If so, I'm moving! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Helms" <jhelms(at)i1.net>
Subject: Re: VFR concerns
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Stadiums full of people with fast movers flying overhead and every radar blip that is not on an IFR plan (and on course) being forced down... 2 cents John "JT" Helms RV Insurer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 2:30 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: VFR concerns >snip How much damage can a small (twin) airplane full of plastic explosives do? Can four jetliners be hijacked simultaneously and cause any significant amount of damage in the US? Can biological weapons be sprayed from a small aircraft? Do you know everyone ELSE who would resume flying if VFR restrictions are lifted. Just a few questions that a little over a week ago seemed very improbable >snip I don't disagree...but. I looked in amazement as a large crowed gathered last night to watch a baseball game. Of all things I thought would have to endure a temporary restriction, large gatherings of people in open areas was top of my list. Especially when the game can be televised! This is low-hanging fruit for a terrorist. Like a woodchuck sticking his head out of the hole! The GA restrictions seem out of step when stadiums full of people are OK. Pat Perry Dallas, PA RV-4 N154PK I'm about to lose my balance and fall from the soap box! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2001
From: Andy <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: FLY
Just a thought. Does one need an instrument "license" to file an IFR flight plan in VMC conditions? Andy > Let him show > you how flying IFR is not so much flying on the gauges as it is knowing the > INSTRUMENT FLIGHT RULES "IFR". > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2001
From: "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Our way
As our way of taking part, Builder's Bookstore and eCharts is now donating 10% of every order to the American Red Cross to aid those affected by the recent tragedies. Every order counts. To take part anonymously you need do nothing. If however, you would like your name included with a list of contributors presented to the Red Cross along with our donation, please say so in the special instructions box on the on-line order form. Also, if you would like to donate an additional amount, please state that amount in the special instructions box. We will keep this going at least through the end of September; longer if the need still persists. Thank you for your participation. Andy Gold Builder's Bookstore http://buildersbooks.com eCharts http://eCharts.cc 1 800 780 4115 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Jessen <jjessen(at)CMBINFO.com>
Subject: Dr. Z.
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Well.... Every U down in Uville liked U.S. a lot, But the Binch, who lived Far East of Uville, did not. The Binch hated U.S! the whole U.S. way! Now don't ask me why, for nobody can say, It could be his turban was screwed on too tight. Or the sun from the desert had beaten too bright But I think that the most likely reason of all May have been that his heart was two sizes too small. But, Whatever the reason, his heart or his turban, He stood facing Uville, the part that was urban. "They're doing their business," he snarled from his perch. "They're raising their families! They're going to church! They're leading the world, and their empire is thriving, I MUST keep the S's and U's from surviving!" Tomorrow, he knew, all the U's and the S's, Would put on their pants and their shirts and their dresses, They'd go to their offices, playgrounds and schools, And abide by their U and S values and rules, And then they'd do something he liked least of all, Every U down in U-ville, the tall and the small, Would stand all united, each U and each S, And they'd sing Uville's anthem, "God bless us! God bless!" All around their Twin Towers of Uville, they'd stand, and their voices would drown every sound in the land. "I must stop that singing," Binch said with a smirk, And he had an idea-an idea that might work! The Binch stole some U airplanes in U morning hours, And crashed them right into the Uville Twin Towers. "They'll wake to disaster!" he snickered, so sour, "And how can they sing when they can't find a tower?" The Binch cocked his ear as they woke from their sleeping, All set to enjoy their U-wailing and weeping, Instead he heard something that started quite low, And it built up quite slow, but it started to grow- And the Binch heard the most unpredictable thing... And he couldn't believe it-they started to sing! He stared down at U-ville, not trusting his eyes, What he saw was a shocking, disgusting surprise! Every U down in U-ville, the tall and the small, Was singing! Without any towers at all! He HADN'T stopped U-Ville from singing! It sung! For down deep in the hearts of the old and the young, Those Twin Towers were standing, called Hope and called Pride, And you can't smash the towers we hold deep inside. So we circle the sites where our heroes did fall, With a hand in each hand of the tall and the small, And we mourn for our losses while knowing we'll cope, For we still have inside that U-Pride and U-Hope. For America means a bit more than tall towers, It means more than wealth or political powers, It's more than our enemies ever could guess, So may God bless America! Bless us! God bless! John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2001
From: "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Our Way
As our way of taking part, Builder's Bookstore and eCharts is now donating 10% of every order to the American Red Cross to aid those affected by the recent tragedies. Every order counts. To take part anonymously you need do nothing. If however, you would like your name included with a list of contributors presented to the Red Cross along with our donation, please say so in the special instructions box on the on-line order form. Also, if you would like to donate an additional amount, please state that amount in the special instructions box. We will keep this going at least through the end of September; longer if the need still persists. Thank you for your participation. Andy Gold Builder's Bookstore http://buildersbooks.com eCharts http://eCharts.cc 1 800 780 4115 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JusCash(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: Re: FLY
Yes, to be legal on has to have an instrument rating and be current. Cash In a message dated 9/18/2001 1:46:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com writes: > > Just a thought. Does one need an instrument "license" to file an IFR > flight plan > in VMC conditions? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sally and George" <aeronut58(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV8-List: Proseal canopy?
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Dan: I riveted my canopy per the plans and builder's manual. I endured much angst and worry that I'd screw it up, but...it turned out to be easy and everything was fine. The only slight negative that I can think of is that the pop rivets that hold the skirt to the canopy frame required some extra finishing to smooth everything off, but you'll have to do a lot of filling and sanding on the fiberglass skirt anyway, so I'm not sure this is worth worrying about. Using proseal might work. Then again, after hundreds of hours and several years in the hot sun it might possibly not be sufficient. The rivets have been field tested and we know they work. Just my experience/opinion. George Kilishek N888GK Final .0001% >From: TwoAviators <TwoAviators(at)lexcominc.net> >Reply-To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV8-List: Proseal canopy? >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 11:27:19 -0400 > >--> RV8-List message posted by: TwoAviators > >All, > >I am installing canopy, and so far only thing shattered are my nerves. I >have drilled the rivet holes, and can forsee the problems holding the >canopy in alignment while drilling the canopy skirt. I would like to >proseal or RTV the canopy to the frame, and then locate holes for skirt. >When I finish rivet the skirt I'd like to proseal it on too. Has anyone >done this? Has anyone not done this? > >Thanks > >Dan Ward >RV8 N417SN >Fitting canopy, nose cowling, wheel pants, about half finished. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Helms" <jhelms(at)i1.net>
Subject: Re: FLY
Date: Sep 18, 2001
FYI - I believe that they are not allowing ANY IFR amendments or cancellations at all. I think it specifically says that in the notam. Yes, just checked the site... it says "All flights must be IFR from takeoff to touchdown -- airborne pickup of IFR clearances and in-flight cancellation of IFR are not be permitted." John "JT" Helms NationAir Insurance ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hurd" <hurd(at)boernenet.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 3:03 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY > You VFR pilots grab an instrument rated pilot and go flying OK, I know I can get clearance for an IFR departure out of my non-approved-approach airfield. And (in severe clear) I'll probably get direct routing. Now how do I get back? Don't I have to file the return to a destination with an approved approach to get the IFR clearance? Sure don't want to count on the kindness of a controller letting me amend in-air. Or pulling some stunt like saying I have a rough engine and need to, "get down right about here." Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: It's Okay... Relax... D.O.T. has the problem well in hand.
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Okay boys & girls... I feel reassured. D.O.T. has instituted their "Rabid Response Team". How "Rabid" you may ask... Well they will have their recommendations turned in by October 1, 2001. So "Relax"... let's all just sit by quietly like the good submissive sheep we are and let them "recommend" us nasty, pain in the neck, "Dangerous" VFR pilots out of existence. Okay, I guess I'll just have to spend mo money, update my bird to IFR, update my A-s to IFR, and convince my co-owner of our dirt/grass strip to fork out the bucks for an ILS and GPS approach (plus radar and whatever else crap big brother dictates). Then I'll just periodically declare the "E" word so I can flail around upside down (maybe a few spins, etc...) to get my fuel system "un-clogged". I wonder if they'll catch on after a few years or so. Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2001
From: Larry & Karen Gooding <GOODING(at)hargray.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone know why?
Pat, The explaination I heard had to do with a concern about germ warfare, how easily something like smallpox or anthrax could be spread from a small plane. Until the possibility is addressed, we may need to be a little patient. Karen Gooding PA-17 PJ-3S > >Has anyone heard a good explanation for the VFR restrictions? > >I originally assumed it was to limit the untraceable routes of escape for >any of the terrorists associates but after one full week I can't believe a >VFR restriction is helping anyone. They could have swum to Cuba by now. > >I am getting worried, there is no clear justification for the restriction. > >Pat Perry >Dallas, PA >RV-4 N154PK Flew great! >I'm getting concerened. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: FLY
Date: Sep 18, 2001
However...if you can reach approach or center while on the ground, you can definitely get your clearance that way. Last night, taking off out of MYF at 9:40pm (40 minutes after the tower closed), I had to contact SoCal approach (119.6) to get my clearance, and then again right before takeoff to activate it. They gave me a 2-minute window to get off the ground. No problem. So, assuming your radio is strong and you can reach an ATC facility from the ground, you're good to go. I'm not positive, but I also believe that FSS might be able to give you your clearance over the phone if you can't reach an ATC facility by radio. When you file, they'll either give it to you themselves or transfer you to a TRACON facility that will read you your clearance, complete with a valid time and void time. This is how it's typically done from an uncontrolled field (or a controlled class D airport after the tower is closed). This constitutes a takeoff to touchdown clearance, despite the fact that you don't make radio contact until airborne. Don't quote me, though...who knows if they even give this style clearance these days. )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Helms" <jhelms(at)i1.net> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 2:28 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY > > FYI - I believe that they are not allowing ANY IFR amendments or > cancellations at all. I think it specifically says that in the notam. > > Yes, just checked the site... it says "All flights must be IFR from takeoff > to touchdown -- airborne pickup of IFR clearances and in-flight cancellation > of IFR are not be permitted." > > John "JT" Helms > NationAir Insurance > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jim hurd" <hurd(at)boernenet.com> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 3:03 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY > > > > You VFR pilots grab an instrument rated pilot and go flying > > OK, I know I can get clearance for an IFR departure out of my > non-approved-approach airfield. And (in severe clear) I'll probably get > direct routing. Now how do I get back? Don't I have to file the return to > a destination with an approved approach to get the IFR clearance? Sure > don't want to count on the kindness of a controller letting me amend in-air. > Or pulling some stunt like saying I have a rough engine and need to, "get > down right about here." > > Jim > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: not rv related, but american
Al and Friends, I didn't find anything in that letter that would keep me from sleeping. America or Americans have always been hit by terrorist. Admittingly this was a much more noticeable event. It will continue in the future. If we give in to their fear tactics, they won. I for one will not change any of my habits, whether it is traveling, purchasing, recreational or anything else. I have already in one week since the attack, noticed that my business is down 50%. That shows me that the Americans confidence is down, and is unsure what will happen next. But by thinking this way, they have started a chain of events; they may not get stopped in time to save the economy, and our future as a great nation. The reduction of sales in my business or the millions of other businesses across America will reflect in a devastating manner. I will have to lay off 4 people Friday. Other business will do the same or more, unemployment will be rising, less people purchasing, fewer businesses make, next week more layoffs and the cycle will continue to deteriorate, and we end up like Russia. Broke, unemployed, homeless. The government is trying to encourage consumer confidence, but the media is stifling their attempt. For what, a better rating? No common sense on the media side as a country in bankruptcy is news, and a new story, and a new story is a bigger rating. We need to spread the word, GO UPON YOUR LIFE AS YOU DID BEFORE THE ATTACK ON TUESDAY! If not, we lost the war. Another point I would like to discuss is no one these days knows his or her neighbors. The terrorist could be next door and you wouldn't even have a clue. Back in my small hometown, everyone knew everyone, and if a stranger moved in, everyone knew about it. It wouldn't be long before they would learn who they were and what they are about, as they keep a secure community. If everyone in America took the time to walk next door and get aquatinted with their neighbors on both sides and across the street, it would be very easy to put a list of suspects together. I say this because, the day after the attack, my brother was looking out of his window at a house that was for rent. He noticed a unmarked van pull up, and 4 men, whom he never saw before, get out of the van, and unloaded 6 large green trash bags into the house. The strangers were wearing some sort of turbines on their heads and loose sheet like clothing. Obviously foreigners, but were they of the terrorist type? The van disappeared after 2 days, and hasn't returned since. No telling what that was all about, but my imagination leads me to believe, if they were terrorist, they were on the run. Or perhaps since McDill AFB is 2 miles down the road, maybe a meeting for an attack. My brother should have reported this strange behavior at that time, but he didn't say nor do anything until they were gone. The rent sign went back up as they left. I find that strange enough to call someone to check it out, in light of what had happened a day earlier. We as American's need to be aware of our surrounding from now on. We have had the luxury of not paying much attention of who was carrying what where. If we paid more attention to the details, especially in a public place, I think we could prevent any major happenings in the future. Obviously not all, but it would definitely deter the person with ill intentions, if he knew everyone was watching and questioning his actions. Special attention should be paid to foreigners. I know it's a sad state of affairs, but Americans lives or at stake. If the foreigners are innocent, they will not be offended or have nothing to hide, as I'm sure the innocent ones would like to see this matter go away, just as we Americans do. So the 4 items I can identify as a solution in the short term is: #1. Live life as you did before the attack last Tuesday. #2. Get to know your neighbors, and if your neighbor is ill, or bedridden, get to know their neighbors. #3. Be aware of suspicious persons or objects from now on. Take extra time to study what's going on around yourself, especially in public or government places. #4. Spread the word to do likewise. The more people who live by these means, the stronger America will be. There are probably many more things we can do, and am willing to receive any input you might have. I have always hated chain letters for their usually bogus in nature, but I think I will turn this letter into a chain letter, because if it is passed on to family and friends, we will all have good luck, and America will stand strong again ! Pass this letter on to 10 friends or family members, heck send it to anyone you know with a computer, the more people understand this the better. Sincerely, Scott Reviere ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: Anyone know why?
Date: Sep 18, 2001
It is just as easy to spread germ warfare with a large weather balloon or hot air balloon. There are billions of ways we, the American People, are vulnerable. God forbid we try to gain a small amount of security by giving up our FREEDOM. It just is not worth the price. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry & Karen Gooding <GOODING(at)hargray.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 5:39 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Anyone know why? > > Pat, > > The explaination I heard had to do with a concern about germ warfare, how > easily something like smallpox or anthrax could be spread from a small > plane. Until the possibility is addressed, we may need to be a little > patient. > > Karen Gooding > PA-17 PJ-3S > > > > > >Has anyone heard a good explanation for the VFR restrictions? > > > >I originally assumed it was to limit the untraceable routes of escape for > >any of the terrorists associates but after one full week I can't believe a > >VFR restriction is helping anyone. They could have swum to Cuba by now. > > > >I am getting worried, there is no clear justification for the restriction. > > > >Pat Perry > >Dallas, PA > >RV-4 N154PK Flew great! > >I'm getting concerened. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2001
From: Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: FLY
Just Nav, com and transponder? No gyros needed? Finn JusCash(at)aol.com wrote: > > VFR, Visual Flight Rules and IFR, Instrument Flight Rules are all about > rules. Learn the rules and play the game. I am not saying to go fly IFR > without being rated or with an appropriately equipped aircraft. If you can > find a rated pilot to fly with you and your aircraft properly equipped go > flying. If you are rated and your aircraft is not equipped do what is needed > to bring it into compliance. A Com Radio, Nav Receiver and Transponder could > be all that you need. I can see the day when all aircraft will be required > to have two way communications and a transponder as a minimum to fly VFR. > > Cash Copeland > RV6 Hayward, Ca > NetZero Platinum Only $9.95 per month! Sign up in September to win one of 30 Hawaiian Vacations for 2! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2001
From: Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)redback.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone know why?
No one can explain to me how these restrictions restrict a terrorist from stealing a plane and doing exactly what you describe. As for making it "harder" for them to do so, get real, anyone who could finance, plan, and execute the attacks one week ago would have no problem figuring out how to pull that scenario off.... RB > >Pat, > >The explaination I heard had to do with a concern about germ warfare, how >easily something like smallpox or anthrax could be spread from a small >plane. Until the possibility is addressed, we may need to be a little >patient. > >Karen Gooding >PA-17 PJ-3S > > > > > >Has anyone heard a good explanation for the VFR restrictions? > > > >I originally assumed it was to limit the untraceable routes of escape for > >any of the terrorists associates but after one full week I can't believe a > >VFR restriction is helping anyone. They could have swum to Cuba by now. > > > >I am getting worried, there is no clear justification for the restriction. > > > >Pat Perry > >Dallas, PA > >RV-4 N154PK Flew great! > >I'm getting concerened. > > > > > > Richard E. Bibb Sr. Vice President, Worldwide Sales Redback Networks 10780 Parkridge Boulevard, Suite 155 Reston, Virginia 20191 Direct: 703-860-7012 Main: 703-860-7000 rbibb(at)redback.com Mobile: 703-627-0348 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2001
From: barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone know why?
"and the pursuit of happiness." Sounds like flying to me. Barry POte RV9a fuselage (flower box) > The government says it is a privilege, the PEOPLE say it is a right--that is > where we differ. Not to argue -- now is the time for calm and cohesiveness > and to support our government. I really worry though about the thousands of ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: Anyone know why?
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Hmmmmm..... I wonder if the Feds are currently looking for some sort of biological that might be floating around the country somewhere, perhaps in a suitcase or something. Hadn't thought of that. -- Scott VanArtsdalen RV-4 N311SV (forever finishing) -----Original Message----- From: Larry & Karen Gooding [mailto:GOODING(at)hargray.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 3:39 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Anyone know why? Pat, The explaination I heard had to do with a concern about germ warfare, how easily something like smallpox or anthrax could be spread from a small plane. Until the possibility is addressed, we may need to be a little patient. Karen Gooding PA-17 PJ-3S > >Has anyone heard a good explanation for the VFR restrictions? > >I originally assumed it was to limit the untraceable routes of escape for >any of the terrorists associates but after one full week I can't believe a >VFR restriction is helping anyone. They could have swum to Cuba by now. > >I am getting worried, there is no clear justification for the restriction. > >Pat Perry >Dallas, PA >RV-4 N154PK Flew great! >I'm getting concerened. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: Re: FLY
In a message dated 09/18/2001 8:23:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, finnlassen(at)netzero.net writes: > . A Com Radio, Nav Receiver and Transponder could > > be all that you need. I can see the day when all aircraft will be > required > > to have two way communications and a transponder as a minimum to fly VFR. > What a great time to buy a nav receiver (or start IFR training for that matter) just as the days of VOR navigation are drawing to an overdue close. VOR NAV? ...don't own one, used to own one, don't ever plan to own another one. As for the day when all VFR will be required to have comm and transponder just to fly, you are probably right on, except it will likely be a mode-$, with every aircraft squawking a discrete code from its firmware. Even so, with the kind of flying I do, they will never see me most of the time. I can show you valleys where a radar beam never thought of going... Bill Boyd RV-6A O-320/Sensenich FP Hop-Along Air Field, 12VA Clifton Forge, VA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: jacking safety
I read in the archives a suggestion that bolts could be placed in the tie-down sockets on the wings and used to support the aircraft on jack stands. Are the tie-down hardpoints built to take this concentrated load? I have an Avery/Vetterrman axle jack adapter to lift the plane, but need all the weight off the gear to accurately set incidence of the new wheel pants and leg fairings, or so I am told. Would appreciate hearing from anyone who has supported their 6A this way so I will know it's safe. Seems we all want Guaranteed Safety about everything these days... Bill B ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Subject: Re: jacking safety
Date: Sep 18, 2001
> > I read in the archives a suggestion that bolts could be placed in the > tie-down sockets on the wings and used to support the aircraft on jack > stands. Are the tie-down hardpoints built to take this concentrated load? I > have an Avery/Vetterrman axle jack adapter to lift the plane, but need all > the weight off the gear to accurately set incidence of the new wheel pants > and leg fairings, or so I am told. Would appreciate hearing from anyone who > has supported their 6A this way so I will know it's safe. Seems we all want > Guaranteed Safety about everything these days... > Those are the jack points. I've lifted my airplane (6) there many times. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Rusting http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Murphy, Richard James (Rick)" <rjmurphy1(at)lucent.com>
Subject: FLY
Date: Sep 18, 2001
A pilot must be instrument rated to file and IFR flight plan. RJM---------- > From: Andy[SMTP:winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com] > Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 3:00 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY > > > Just a thought. Does one need an instrument "license" to file an IFR > flight plan > in VMC conditions? > > Andy > > > > Let him show > > you how flying IFR is not so much flying on the gauges as it is knowing > the > > INSTRUMENT FLIGHT RULES "IFR". > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ursmith(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: Pro Seal on Canopy
I had used pro seal on the edge to water seal the canopy on my last RV, and it worked just fine leaving a thin edge seal between the aluminum or FG and the glass. Paint will not adhere. Ron Smith ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com>
Subject: Re: FLY
Date: Sep 18, 2001
You don't need an IFR approach to an airport to fly IFR. You can make a visual approach to any airport on an IFR flight plan, then cancel IFR on the ground via telephone to FSS. Jerry Carter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 12:02 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY > > I'm not IFR rated, as far as I know we can't fly IFR if we wanted to since > our airport does not have IFR approaches. FAA specifically stated IFR > ground to ground and NO pop-ups. I know radar can't see my plane until I'm > 2000' AGL, the mountains block the pattern. > > We arent flying because we can't (legally) not because we don't want to go > through the trouble of using the system. > > Pat Perry > Dallas, PA > RV-4 N154PK may as well be at an airport on Mars! > > > >From: JusCash(at)aol.com > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY > >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:19:21 EDT > > > > > >I to had the opportunity to fly this weekend. Flew with a VFR pilot from > >Hayward, Ca to his home base at San Diego Gillespie. Returned with another > >VFR pilot trying to get home to Hayward. > >You VFR pilots grab an instrument rated pilot and go flying. Let him show > >you how flying IFR is not so much flying on the gauges as it is knowing the > >INSTRUMENT FLIGHT RULES "IFR". > >For you California pilots I heard ATC give an airplane "Cleared the visual > >Harris Ranch". So it looks like we can still go for the $100.00 Hamburger > >if > >we use the system. > > > >Cash Copeland > >RV6 Hayward, Ca > > > >In a message dated 9/17/2001 11:31:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > >dan(at)rvproject.com writes: > > > > > > > > > I finally flew today for the first time since all this chaos. Despite > > > needing to go IFR, and despite specific admonitions that "pilots will > >not be > > > able to cancel IFR", it was a breeze. The controllers were helpful, if > >not > > > a little tense, and I was able to fly the visual approach 3 out of 4 > >times > > > (the instrument approach was actually necessary that one time). And as > >far > > > as I'm concerned, flying the visual is pretty much the same as > >cancelling > > > IFR -- in terms of how you end up flying. Arrivals don't really need to > >be > > > long, drawn-out processes. > > > > > > Granted, only one of the normally 4 GA gates was open at John Wayne > >today. > > > At the one open gate, there was a sheriff inspecting everybody's IDs > > > (driver's & pilot's license) as well as the contents of the trunk. It > >only > > > took a few seconds. > > > > > > Anyway, I encourage IFR capable pilots to get out there and exercise > >your > > > rights, exercise the system, and enjoy yourselves. Despite a hint of > >the > > > "am I doing something wrong?" feeling (and not being able to help > > > occasionally scanning for intercepting military jets), it's worth it to > >get > > > up there and do what we love to do, making a statement to anybody who's > > > watching that we're not going to stop flying just because some freaks of > > > morality took probability to the extreme. General aviation is the same > >as > > > it has always been...if we make it so. > > > > > > Have fun, and FLY. > > > > > > )_( Dan > > > dan(at)rvproject.com > > > http://www.rvproject.com > > > N747DC (RV-7 being built) > > > N201DD (Mooney 201 being flown) > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com>
Subject: Re: FLY
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Yes, you must be instrument-rated, current and flying the proper equipment to file IFR. Jerry Carter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 12:00 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY > > Just a thought. Does one need an instrument "license" to file an IFR flight plan > in VMC conditions? > > Andy > > > > Let him show > > you how flying IFR is not so much flying on the gauges as it is knowing the > > INSTRUMENT FLIGHT RULES "IFR". > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JusCash(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Subject: Re: FLY
Just trying to keep things simple. All a person needs to know is in FAR 91.205. Cash In a message dated 9/18/2001 5:22:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, finnlassen(at)netzero.net writes: > > Just Nav, com and transponder? No gyros needed? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Honors?
Date: Sep 18, 2001
So, do I have the honor of having the newest airplane to be grounded? About 46 hours from first flight until grounded. Did Cessna or Cirrus put a new one up Monday, or do I win the prize? Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A N66AP flew one day ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard McCraw" <rmccraw(at)wcvt.com>
Subject: FLY
Date: Sep 18, 2001
The equipment rules are in Part 91, I believe; gyros, comm and nav requirements, etc. Plus, one must have the altimeter/static system and the mode-c portion of the transponder certified by an avionics shop every two years, the VOR receivers checked frequently (by you), ... It gets a little involved. Rick McCraw Bonanza pilot, watching the RV world from ringside for now ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2001
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: required equipment for IFR in VMC in experimental aircraft
Okay, I know this subject has been hashed out before, but........... I can't get the archives to behave the way I want them to and this question has relevance now that it hasn't had before. Here's the deal; Suppose an instrument rated pilot who is not current wanted to fly his experimental plane via an IFR flight plan in visual meteorological conditions (VMC). What are the minimum equipment/pilot requirements for this flight? Repeat, here are the issues: 1) IFR rating 2) currency 3) VMC 4) experimental airworthiness certificate 5) minimum equipment required I am interested in hearing from pilots who actually know what they are talking about on this subject, not those who just think they know what they are talking about. :-) Any observations from those who have had actual contact with a DAR, a FSDO, or field FAA official concerning this issue would be valued. Yes, I have already read FAR 91.205 concerning aircraft with a standard airworthiness certificate. Opinions concerning the current state of the airspace are not relevant to this inquiry. Thanks in advance, Sam Buchanan (RV-6) "The RV Journal" http://www.home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Carbon Hinge for Cowl
Date: Sep 18, 2001
> No performance issues since my plane is still taking up valuable space in > the garage. However, for $200 I'm not sure how much help they can be. Is it the same price for the fiberglass ones as it is for the carbon fiber? I wonder if the f-glass ones wouldn't be strong enough (and less likely to cause corroded hinge pins)? If they're substantially cheaper it still might be an option. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~290 hrs, plane back home in its hangar -- YAY!) Portland, OR www.vanshomewing.org ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: FLY
Date: Sep 18, 2001
Also, what I've been hearing a lot of lately is "notify us on frequency when landing assured." This very well may be for the police choppers only, but you never know. )_( Dan RV-7 N747DC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 10:03 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY > > You don't need an IFR approach to an airport to fly IFR. You can make a > visual approach to any airport on an IFR flight plan, then cancel IFR on the > ground via telephone to FSS. > > Jerry Carter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 12:02 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY > > > > > > I'm not IFR rated, as far as I know we can't fly IFR if we wanted to since > > our airport does not have IFR approaches. FAA specifically stated IFR > > ground to ground and NO pop-ups. I know radar can't see my plane until > I'm > > 2000' AGL, the mountains block the pattern. > > > > We arent flying because we can't (legally) not because we don't want to go > > through the trouble of using the system. > > > > Pat Perry > > Dallas, PA > > RV-4 N154PK may as well be at an airport on Mars! > > > > > > >From: JusCash(at)aol.com > > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > >Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY > > >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:19:21 EDT > > > > > > > > >I to had the opportunity to fly this weekend. Flew with a VFR pilot from > > >Hayward, Ca to his home base at San Diego Gillespie. Returned with > another > > >VFR pilot trying to get home to Hayward. > > >You VFR pilots grab an instrument rated pilot and go flying. Let him > show > > >you how flying IFR is not so much flying on the gauges as it is knowing > the > > >INSTRUMENT FLIGHT RULES "IFR". > > >For you California pilots I heard ATC give an airplane "Cleared the > visual > > >Harris Ranch". So it looks like we can still go for the $100.00 > Hamburger > > >if > > >we use the system. > > > > > >Cash Copeland > > >RV6 Hayward, Ca > > > > > >In a message dated 9/17/2001 11:31:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > >dan(at)rvproject.com writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > I finally flew today for the first time since all this chaos. Despite > > > > needing to go IFR, and despite specific admonitions that "pilots will > > >not be > > > > able to cancel IFR", it was a breeze. The controllers were helpful, > if > > >not > > > > a little tense, and I was able to fly the visual approach 3 out of 4 > > >times > > > > (the instrument approach was actually necessary that one time). And > as > > >far > > > > as I'm concerned, flying the visual is pretty much the same as > > >cancelling > > > > IFR -- in terms of how you end up flying. Arrivals don't really need > to > > >be > > > > long, drawn-out processes. > > > > > > > > Granted, only one of the normally 4 GA gates was open at John Wayne > > >today. > > > > At the one open gate, there was a sheriff inspecting everybody's IDs > > > > (driver's & pilot's license) as well as the contents of the trunk. It > > >only > > > > took a few seconds. > > > > > > > > Anyway, I encourage IFR capable pilots to get out there and exercise > > >your > > > > rights, exercise the system, and enjoy yourselves. Despite a hint of > > >the > > > > "am I doing something wrong?" feeling (and not being able to help > > > > occasionally scanning for intercepting military jets), it's worth it > to > > >get > > > > up there and do what we love to do, making a statement to anybody > who's > > > > watching that we're not going to stop flying just because some freaks > of > > > > morality took probability to the extreme. General aviation is the > same > > >as > > > > it has always been...if we make it so. > > > > > > > > Have fun, and FLY. > > > > > > > > )_( Dan > > > > dan(at)rvproject.com > > > > http://www.rvproject.com > > > > N747DC (RV-7 being built) > > > > N201DD (Mooney 201 being flown) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2001
From: Fred Kunkel <rvator(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Anyone know why?
Not to add to a controversy, but perhaps for the first time in a long time "not knowing" could be a big part of the problem we're facing. The government is being extremely close lipped about intelligence, tactics, etc. We're just not used to that in an informational society where the "rights & best interests of the individual" sometimes seem to outweigh the "rights & best interests of the nation". A crop duster out of Bakersfield got cited last week when an AWACS aircraft picked him up dusting crops - who would have thought of that & what "freedom" was he exercising? Maybe, just maybe there's an additional threat(s) that we don't know anything about. Don't think anyone's so naive to think that it couldn't happen again - & what would happen if the American public knew of another major threat scenario? Maybe it's a simple way of indirectly acknowledging & temporarily addressing the defects/inefficiencies in some of our systems. In any case, the government seems to be taking pretty rational, thorough measures to address the massive amount of issues at hand. We don't know which, if any, of our freedoms will be changed, so why speculate until we do? The focus from all sides seems to be preserving those freedoms. Right now our thoughts & prayers remain with those who have suffered, those who now serve, & those who will soon be called upon to serve & protect our freedoms. Semper Fi Richard Bibb wrote: > > No one can explain to me how these restrictions restrict a terrorist from > stealing a plane and doing exactly what you describe. As for making it > "harder" for them to do so, get real, anyone who could finance, plan, and > execute the attacks one week ago would have no problem figuring out how to > pull that scenario off.... > > RB > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: required equipment for IFR in VMC in experimental aircraft
Date: Sep 18, 2001
[snip] > Suppose an instrument rated pilot who is not current > wanted to fly his experimental plane via an IFR flight plan in visual > meteorological conditions (VMC). What are the minimum equipment/pilot > requirements for this flight? > > Repeat, here are the issues: > > 1) IFR rating Required. Ref. FAR 61.3 (e) > 2) currency Required. Ref. FAR 61.57 (c) > 3) VMC Not a factor as far as I've ever been able to tell > 4) experimental airworthiness certificate Not a factor... usually. Some DARs/AIs have been known to specifically put VFR ONLY in the operating limitiations but if yours is like most it will say something like "VFR/Day only unless equipped for IFR/Night as required by the FARs". Which means if you're so equipped, you're legal, or if you're not so equipped now but do become so later, you'll be legal then. Bottom line: the experimental cert. isn't a factor, but the operating limitations might be. > 5) minimum equipment required Min. required for IFR flight. Ref. FAR 91.205 > I am interested in hearing from pilots who actually know what they are > talking about on this subject, not those who just think they know what > they are talking about. :-) Sorry I'm probably the latter. But I am an IFR rated pilot who has studied the regs pretty carefully. I have discussed the "IFR certification" issue and how it applies to experimentals in the past with a number of people including a DAR and an FAA AI. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~280 hrs) Portland, OR www.vanshomewing.org ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com>
Subject: Anyone know why?
Date: Sep 19, 2001
AMEN Brad! You took the words out of my mouth. NON RV SPECIFIC COMMENTS FOLLOW. DELETE OR MOVE ON IF NOT INTERESTED. I for one *am* willing to wait this one out. Of course my RV is not ready to fly but I do have a Champ that is grounded and a Piper Archer that I *can* fly, just as you said, by filing IFR so they know exactly where I am supposed to be and therefore when I am "deviating". On the drive home from the airport, I did some "what if I were ... " scenarios. I will not EVEN begin to mention what ways I came up with to do damage at a time like this with my "little" airplane. This thing is not over yet. And if giving up flying for a few weeks helps the cause of America and those who have given and are giving a WHOLE LOT MORE, then I for one am more than willing to do such a small part. For those that feel a need to blame someone for encroaching on our "freedoms", I say don't blame George W and the Administration. There is someone else ahead of them in line on this one. So let's (as pilots and builders) cut our leaders some slack as if we don't, I envision things getting a LOT worse in response. I say again, I think they are truly serious about protecting many (some unspoken) aspects of our freedom. James ... a pilot and builder who was not a "W" supporter who is backing our team all the way on this one. (and holding the fire extinguisher for Brad) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Benson, Bradley Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 10:55 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Anyone know why? How about several off the top of my head : 1) More predictable traffic: When you go VFR, no one in the ARTCC or TRACON knows where you are going. 2) More security: Ashcroft has said that more attacks are a very real possibility, given what evidence they have found. While a Cessna, Cherokee, or RV wouldn't cause physical damage of the same magnitude as a 757, I suspect it would still a fair amount of psychological damage to the nation. 3) Time: The FBI investigation is in full swing and is chasing down people on commercial air traffic, trains, buses, etc. If another week helps, then so be it. Here's another point to consider: What if VFR traffic was suddenly allowed, and a terrorist (or wannabe) takes off in a Cherokee and then intentionally crashes it into something. You can bet your sweet a*s that that would be the end of VFR GA. Again, given that more terrorism is possible, this is a realistic scenario. Given that our country has come under attack, given that our service men and women will be put in harm's way in this war on terrorism, and given that thousands of lives have been lost, it seems a little soon to be writing legislators demanding that your VFR flying *privileges* be restored. Finally if you really want to go flying, file IFR (grab a CFII or an instrument rated friend if not rated) and go flying. Nobody is stopping you from doing this, and you can go anywhere you want (TFRs and prohibited areas excepted, of course). Grabbing the Nomex... Brad RV6AQ underway... -----Original Message----- From: Pat Perry [mailto:pperryrv(at)hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 8:38 AM Subject: RV-List: Anyone know why? Has anyone heard a good explanation for the VFR restrictions? I originally assumed it was to limit the untraceable routes of escape for any of the terrorists associates but after one full week I can't believe a VFR restriction is helping anyone. They could have swum to Cuba by now. I am getting worried, there is no clear justification for the restriction. Pat Perry Dallas, PA RV-4 N154PK Flew great! I'm getting concerened. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Subject: Re: Anyone know why?
From: "GREGORY GORDON" <Cosglo(at)ozemail.com.au>
Dear Friends, I am new to your list and but have just noticed the general complaints about your restrictions upon your personal rights to fly your beloved aircraft in your country's airspace since the senseless attack upon innocent people of a great number of nationalities, just doing their job in New York. May I, as an Australian, who has had the gift of receiving the hospitability, of some United States friends, offer a little advice. One of your great presidents, did suggest or words to the effect, "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". I suggest that the majority of Australians are behind you all, in supporting you in this hour of need; you people supported Australia in our hour of need during the early days of WW11. We now in return can offer the same support. Do not let the "bastards" who ever they are, divide you and win. Remain united, with the support, of alot of your friends world wide: and you will win and "put to bed this common enemy". Should you need uncrowded air-space, please come to Sydney, Australia. I would be happy to put a fellow flyer friend. Kind regards, Gregory Gordon. VH-LCX. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2001
From: joe wiza <jwiza1(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone know why?
Your forgetting terrorists are not allowed to file IFR. RV6A --- Richard Bibb wrote: > > > No one can explain to me how these restrictions > restrict a terrorist from > stealing a plane and doing exactly what you > describe. As for making it > "harder" for them to do so, get real, anyone who > could finance, plan, and > execute the attacks one week ago would have no > problem figuring out how to > pull that scenario off.... > > RB > > Gooding > > > >Pat, > > > >The explaination I heard had to do with a concern > about germ warfare, how > >easily something like smallpox or anthrax could be > spread from a small > >plane. Until the possibility is addressed, we may > need to be a little > >patient. > > > >Karen Gooding > >PA-17 PJ-3S > > > > > > > > > > >Has anyone heard a good explanation for the VFR > restrictions? > > > > > >I originally assumed it was to limit the > untraceable routes of escape for > > >any of the terrorists associates but after one > full week I can't believe a > > >VFR restriction is helping anyone. They could > have swum to Cuba by now. > > > > > >I am getting worried, there is no clear > justification for the restriction. > > > > > >Pat Perry > > >Dallas, PA > > >RV-4 N154PK Flew great! > > >I'm getting concerened. > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard E. Bibb > Sr. Vice President, Worldwide Sales > Redback Networks > 10780 Parkridge Boulevard, Suite 155 > Reston, Virginia 20191 > > Direct: 703-860-7012 > Main: 703-860-7000 > rbibb(at)redback.com > Mobile: 703-627-0348 > > > > http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribe > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Costello" <wmcenterprises(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Fw: God Bless the USA
Date: Sep 19, 2001
----- Original Message ----- From: Candy Eichenberger JIdzkowski(at)aol.com ; E. W. "Ted" Green ; Jerry A. Eichenberger ; Keri L. Dowling ; William Costello ; Terry Eichenberger.2(at)osu.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 9:11 PM Subject: Fw: God Bless the USA Turn on your music and be blessed. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ralph Gutowski Widman ; Jan Widman ; Vicki Wesolowski ; Joe Wesolowski ; Art Weisberger ; Cliff ADOLPH R. SVEC ; Evelyn @ home Stiver ; Gary Steelman ; Frank P. Sperandeo, III ; Tom @ Work Rosemarie ; Molly A. Rodgers ; Joy Rodgers ; Art Amy H Rodgers ; Wayne Richert ; Tim Rhodenbaugh ; @ Work Ralph ; Joyce Ponder ; Peter Polen ; Jan Kent O'Kelly ; Richard Norrman ; Bob & Eleanor Mills ; Mark McKinley ; Gerard M. McCann ; Timothy A. Marks ; Scott Marks ; Rachael Marks ; Linda and Scott Marks ; Libby Marks ; Dave & Debbie Marks ; Dan Marks ; Dan Pat Joe Lang ; Flo Lang ; Patrick Kramer ; Pat Mindy Kristen Kramer ; Laurie L. Kramer ; David (@ work) Kramer ; Denise Krallman ; Bill Knisely ; Sharon Klink ; Jerry and Kay Isbell ; Carol & Roger Herrett ; Bill Heck ; Brent Mike Gutowski ; Jeff Gutowski ; Martha Gutowski ; Leo Jim and Elaine Freeman ; Jim Fix ; Warren Jerry Eichenberger ; Candy Eichenberger ; Kathy Dudley ; Melva Bob Dickman ; Bernard L. DeLong ; Jim & Roberta Czarnecki ; Mike Crowe ; Rodney Cobb ; Kathy Browning ; Kenneth W. Brown ; Tony Broadwell ; Marla Boone ; Dave Russell Berry ; Jim Beisner ; Ms Barista ; Tom Anderson ; Denise Anderson ; John Alexander Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 9:40 PM Subject: God Bless the USA Some very uplifting pictures from around the world on this web site - caution, you may need a Kleenex or hanky before you get through them all. Ralph http://home.earthlink.net/~hankinhsd/thankyou.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Honors?
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Steve, Congratulations!! Dave & I look forward to your first flight! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A (16 hrs - 9 togo) Niantic, CT (Westerly airport) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: Proseal canopy?
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Dan, Proseal is much better than RTV as it's paintable. If you somehow figure out how to bond (Proseal) the canopy into place with no screws, the screws won't be needed..... Use a few screws as possible..... The Proseal will definately hold it in place.... Fred Stucklen N925RV (1780 hrs/8Yrs) E. Windsor, CT 06088 WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com ____ From: TwoAviators <TwoAviators(at)lexcominc.net> Subject: RV-List: Proseal canopy? All, I am installing canopy, and so far only thing shattered are my nerves. I have drilled the rivet holes, and can forsee the problems holding the canopy in alignment while drilling the canopy skirt. I would like to proseal or RTV the canopy to the frame, and then locate holes for skirt. When I finish rivet the skirt I'd like to proseal it on too. Has anyone done this? Has anyone not done this? Thanks Dan Ward RV8 N417SN Fitting canopy, nose cowling, wheel pants, about half finished. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Honors?
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Alex, Congratulations - we look forward to your first flight! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A (flying) Niantic, CT (Westerly airport) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com>
Subject: Converting a new O-360-A1A to FP prop
Date: Sep 19, 2001
All, I looked in the archives for some guidance on how to "poke the hole" in the inner crack plug to set up for FP prop operations. I found some conflicting information. Does anyone have a step by step procedure to do this? Some questions: - What is the correct way to install and seat the outer crank plug? How can you tell if the plug is installed correctly? - I assume the installed governor oil line stays in place. Is this correct? What function does it serve when the crank is converted to FP operations? Does this line port oil into the crank as is (e.g. no prop governor)? If so, does this oil flow feed the crank forward journal bearing? It seems to me this oil line provides a way to bypass oil from the oil pump directly back to the oil sump via the hole in the inner crank plug. If so, this bypassed oil is no longer available to the engine for lubrication and cooling. - What is the "least likely to cause damage" way to put the hole in the inner crank plug? - If I ever wanted to convert back to CS prop operations, how do you replace the inner crank plug? The oil tube forward of the inner plug is in the way. Thanks, Carl Froehlich RV-8A (setting up to move to the hanger) Vienna, VA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvmils(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Subject: Re: VFR concerns
Some of you guys wrote some good letters to your congressman and senators, could you send me or the list a copy. I'm working on one myself. Carey Mills RV4 169hrs UH-60 Air Assault Pilot 82nd ABN DIV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvmils(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Subject: Re: Fw: Your vote
Some of you guys wrote some good letters to your congressman and senators, could you send me or the list a copy. I'm working on one myself. Carey Mills RV4 169hrs UH-60 Air Assault Pilot 82nd ABN DIV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jim hurd" <hurd(at)boernenet.com>
Subject: Engine Care
Date: Sep 19, 2001
In the spirit of "What you're prepared for you won't need," could we have knowledgeable advice on engine care for the duration? It's unlikely I'm going to be able to get out and back into of my airfield IFR under the current Notam, so what can I do short of pickling--a la Lycoming--the engine? Ground-running is a no-no. Will turning the prop to a new position periodically prevent cam lobe rusting or does this just remove the oil film already there? After how long a period of disuse should I consider extraordinary efforts to prep the engine for starting? My oil is just 5 hours old, but if fresh oil will help, I'll do it. I'm charging the battery weekly and hoping that Murphy will interpret my efforts and expense to put the plane on life support as a good reason to make the Notam go away. Jim RV6A 223JH 145 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com>
Subject: Van's Air Force
Date: Sep 19, 2001
I thought you were serious when I first started reading! Thanks for a good laugh; the list needed something like this... Cheers, Brad RV6AQ... -----Original Message----- From: Rick Caldwell [mailto:racaldwell(at)hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 8:10 PM Subject: RV-List: Van's Air Force - snip - I, and 1,000's like me, have these little stubby winged aircraft sitting in our hangars just collecting dust. We call ourselves Van's Air Force. Mr. Gov't Leader, we are reporting for duty. What can we do, you ask. Plenty. See those F-16's up there. Do you know how much fuel they are burning? We can do the very same job. And we will pay for our own fuel. Think we have no experience coming up on the wing of another aircraft to read that ID number. Think again, mister. We are talking about the Van's Air Force here. Don't tell the Black Jack Squadron they can't fly formation. Oh, our little RV's are not fast enough? Well, the Apache helicopter that you sent out Saturday to follow my brother in his Bonanza could have been doing something more suited to its mission. My RV has proven I can catch that Bonanza. No way could he deviate from his flight plan without a VAF pilot reporting it. Yes, the VAF could fill the mission of patrolling our skies. Why are you still skeptical, Mr. Gov't Leader? No formal training, you say? Why, we have all read "For Every Man a Tiger." We even practice what we read. Believe me, if Mohammed Omar gets on my tail, the Yellow Peril will be thrown into a 6g barrel roll so quick, Omar's turbin will be spinning. Yes, the VAF are a talented group. The squadrons train every weekend. Many add weekday training to their ciriculum. We can fill you mission requirements. Just give us a chance. - snip - ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <bruce.gray(at)snet.net>
Subject: Engine Care
Date: Sep 19, 2001
You can get out of any airport IFR. You can get into any airport IFR, even one without a published IFR approach. So long as the weather is above the minimum IFR vectoring altitude for that area. You ask for a decent to minimum altitude and then shoot a visual approach. Works fine if the weather is VFR. Bruce Glasair III, IFR rated but still grounded -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of jim hurd Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 9:54 AM Subject: RV-List: Engine Care In the spirit of "What you're prepared for you won't need," could we have knowledgeable advice on engine care for the duration? It's unlikely I'm going to be able to get out and back into of my airfield IFR under the current Notam, so what can I do short of pickling--a la Lycoming--the engine? Ground-running is a no-no. Will turning the prop to a new position periodically prevent cam lobe rusting or does this just remove the oil film already there? After how long a period of disuse should I consider extraordinary efforts to prep the engine for starting? My oil is just 5 hours old, but if fresh oil will help, I'll do it. I'm charging the battery weekly and hoping that Murphy will interpret my efforts and expense to put the plane on life support as a good reason to make the Notam go away. Jim RV6A 223JH 145 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: Anyone know why?
Date: Sep 19, 2001
BULL SH!T !!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Besing <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 11:13 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Anyone know why? > > The logic of preventing terrorists from bombing with a Cessna is > beyond my > simple mind. I don't get it. > > I'll tell you what the logic is. Aircraft are very visible, and very > tragic. Yes, they could bomb with boats or trucks, but the psychological > impact on what happens when a plane crashes into a building is far greater > than a truck bombing a building BULL SH!T !! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Murphy, Richard James (Rick)" <rjmurphy1(at)lucent.com>
Subject: required equipment for IFR in VMC in experimental ai
rcraft
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Pilots must be IFR current in order to file any IFR flight plan, regardless of the weather conditions that the flight will take place in. Rick > ---------- > From: Randall Henderson[SMTP:randallh(at)home.com] > Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 12:39 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: required equipment for IFR in VMC in > experimental aircraft > > > [snip] > > Suppose an instrument rated pilot who is not current > > wanted to fly his experimental plane via an IFR flight plan in visual > > meteorological conditions (VMC). What are the minimum equipment/pilot > > requirements for this flight? > > > > Repeat, here are the issues: > > > > 1) IFR rating > Required. Ref. FAR 61.3 (e) > > > 2) currency > Required. Ref. FAR 61.57 (c) > > > 3) VMC > Not a factor as far as I've ever been able to tell > > > 4) experimental airworthiness certificate > Not a factor... usually. Some DARs/AIs have been known to specifically put > VFR ONLY in the operating limitiations but if yours is like most it will > say > something like "VFR/Day only unless equipped for IFR/Night as required by > the FARs". Which means if you're so equipped, you're legal, or if you're > not > so equipped now but do become so later, you'll be legal then. Bottom line: > the experimental cert. isn't a factor, but the operating limitations might > be. > > > 5) minimum equipment required > Min. required for IFR flight. Ref. FAR 91.205 > > > I am interested in hearing from pilots who actually know what they are > > talking about on this subject, not those who just think they know what > > they are talking about. :-) > > Sorry I'm probably the latter. But I am an IFR rated pilot who has studied > the regs pretty carefully. I have discussed the "IFR certification" issue > and how it applies to experimentals in the past with a number of people > including a DAR and an FAA AI. > > Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~280 hrs) > Portland, OR > www.vanshomewing.org > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Subject: Re: Converting a new O-360-A1A to FP prop
carl i can answer the last question as i saw this done when jim norman installed the inner plug on his engine. there is a special tool you can rent from vans that makes it very easy to install the inner plug. scott tampa ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2001
From: Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)redback.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone know why?
I agree completely with the sentiment expressed about cutting our leaders some slack. I have posted that on other boards this week. I for one am willing to wait for the duration to fly again if that is what it takes to eliminate the threat to mankind. I just get concerned when measures are proposed in the guise of providing protection that do not offer any such thing. The comment about not wanting to give the terrorists more avenues of escape makes some senses in that, presuming that the Air Force has enough resources to monitor the US in the areas where the remaining terrorists are likely to be (hard to imagine them hanging in rural Nebraska but ya never know), then giving eliminating VFR might make some short term sense. Form the public evidence these thugs did not look to be all that proficient pilots and would probably draw suspicion trying to file IFR. It is a stretch but.... I guess we are hoping common sense will prevail but "aviation regulation" and "common sense" are phrases not often found in the same sentence.... RB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lenleg(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Subject: Re: Bob Archer Address
List: I tried the archives but can't come up with contact information for Bob Archer. Help !! Len Leggette, RV-8A Greensboro, N.C. N910LL (res) Hooking up systems ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lenleg(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Subject: Bob Archer Address - Delete
List: Sorry, I found it in the yellow pages ! Thanks !! Len Leggette, RV-8A Greensboro, N.C. N910LL (res) Hooking up systems ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com>
Subject: Converting a new O-360-A1A to FP prop
Date: Sep 19, 2001
As a person who has recently done the OPPOSITE, I will help. I bought an engine from Bart believing that I would be using a Cato Prop (thus fixed pitch). I changed my mind, and with Bart's help, I converted my engine to one that would carry the standard C2YK Hartzell CS prop. As I understand your message, you want to go the opposite way, from a CS setup to a FP set up. I can help you understand the system, and thus answer most of your own questions. There is other stuff here that may be interesting to others as well regarding the working of these systems. 1) Some Lycoming crankshafts are hollow for the forward most aspect of their length. I don't know how far this goes back, but it goes at least 8 inches (the location of the inner plug). I may be wrong, but I understand that not all Lycoming crankshafts are hollow at the forward end, and thus not all can be used for a hydraulic CS prop. Apparently, the cranks can be hollow their entire length, but I don't know, and it is irrelevant to this discussion, other than to use a hydraulic CS prop, it must be hollow at the front. 2) There is the potential for two "plugs" in the crankshaft. One at the very front end (its steel, is about 1/16" thick, and about 3 inches in diameter). It looks like a standard "freeze" pug from an automobile crankcase, but thicker and beefier. The other plug is similar in design, but only about 1.125 inches (a guess) in diameter. It is installed against a ridge within the inside of the crank hollow which is set about 8 inches from the front of the crank, however, this is ONLY needed when a CS speed prop is used. To convert my FP set up to CS setup, I had to go through the following simple procedure (took about 30 minutes total). A) Take a plate off the back of the accessory case and bolt up the governor housing, and then to this 2.5 inches of metal, the governor itself gets attached. Very straight forward, no tricks. B) Run a high pressure hose from the right side of the governor housing along the right side of the engine to the front of the crank case. At the front of the crankcase, about half way between the first cylinder and the front of the case, there was a small plug (NPT fitting). I had to remove this with an Allen wrench, put in a 90 degree elbow, and then to this elbow is where the forward end of the high pressure oil hose goes. Again... a couple of minutes, no tricks except that you may have to heat around the NPT fitting with a torch to get it out. C) Remove the front (large) plug. This was a bit scary, since I was told to "just get a punch and a big hammer and punch a hole in it so you can pry it out". Well this is exactly right, except that this is a thick steel plug, and it takes some determination to put a hole in it. Once there is a hole in it, you use the hole to pry this plug out. Thus, this hole is simply to give you leverage to REMOVE the front plug. WHY? Well, the CS prop moves with hydraulic pressure which is delivered from the prop governor (essentially an oil pump) through the high pressure oil line into the center of the crankshaft which now can flow directly into the prop itself... Now that you removed the big front plug, the oil flows out of the front flange of the crankshaft and into the prop. The prop blades themselves turn according to the oil pressure delivered to them. When the oil pressure is decreased, they return to fine setting (non-aerobatic, and non feathering props) by way of a few springs. D) Well now we get to the part about the inner plug. The high pressure oil in the front of crankshaft must be contained. Apparently the back part of the crankshaft hollow will allow the high oil pressure developed by the prop governor to flow backwards instead of frontward toward the prop (for other reasons not getting into here for simplicity). My engine, as set up for a FP prop, came WITHOUT an inner plug. To convert it to CS prop, I had to put the inner plug in. THIS is the tool that is needed, and I would think that it really should NOT be done without the special tool. If you are going from CS to FP (as in your question), you will need to give the oil some other place to go. I'm not sure if "punching a hole" in this plug is what is needed (although in theory, this is exactly what is needed), or if this plug needs to be removed completely. I see no way of removing this plug without the crankshaft being out on a bench. However, punching a hole in it should be straight forward (although a bit nerve racking!). Again, I've not done this because I had no plug and put one in, so you need to seek clarification here. E) for completeness sake, let me explain that the high pressure oil gets into the center of the crank through the above mentioned hose, however, when you get the front plug out (or look in there if you don't have one to begin with), you will see an approx 1/4 inch tube which runs from one side of the hollow crank to the other, although it is off center. The reason it is off center is that the inner plug sits behind it, and the plug by definition is the diameter of the hollow. Thus to get the plug past the oil tube, the oil tube is off center allowing the plug to pass. The special tool used to seat this plug looks like a large punch. It is the diameter of the crank hollow, but it has a slit in it which is off center... so that this big punch can fit over and past the oil tube to assure that the inner plug is set correctly and squarely. This is all that needs done to convert a FP to a CS application. To go the opposite way, as your question reads, means that you need to deal with relieving the inner plug in some fashion; putting in a front plug which is very obvious (I'd use a block of wood or something, but it is very straightforward), and removing the supply of high pressure oil to the front of the crankshaft. I think it should be obvious now that once you pierce the inner plug (if that's how you do it), to return this particular engine to CS operation is NOT a simple chore, since this pierced inner plug needs to be removed and replaced with a good one... and I think this has to be done with the crankshaft out of the engine. And you guys thought I knew nothing except how to mold/make fiberglass! Jim Norman Tampa 6A finishing (for ever). God Bless America! Please archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 9:07 AM Subject: RV-List: Converting a new O-360-A1A to FP prop All, I looked in the archives for some guidance on how to "poke the hole" in the inner crack plug to set up for FP prop operations. I found some conflicting information. Does anyone have a step by step procedure to do this? Some questions: - What is the correct way to install and seat the outer crank plug? How can you tell if the plug is installed correctly? - I assume the installed governor oil line stays in place. Is this correct? What function does it serve when the crank is converted to FP operations? Does this line port oil into the crank as is (e.g. no prop governor)? If so, does this oil flow feed the crank forward journal bearing? It seems to me this oil line provides a way to bypass oil from the oil pump directly back to the oil sump via the hole in the inner crank plug. If so, this bypassed oil is no longer available to the engine for lubrication and cooling. - What is the "least likely to cause damage" way to put the hole in the inner crank plug? - If I ever wanted to convert back to CS prop operations, how do you replace the inner crank plug? The oil tube forward of the inner plug is in the way. Thanks, Carl Froehlich RV-8A (setting up to move to the hanger) Vienna, VA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Subject: Re: Bob Archer Address
Hi All, Bob Archer's Email address is bobsantennas(at)earthlink.com His phone number is (310) 316-8796. Jim Ayers RV-3 N47RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com>
Subject: Anyone know why?
Date: Sep 19, 2001
I'm not so much bothered by the restriction as by the attitude. As it is, they might as well have said "We're grounding all you potential terrorist nuts in your stupid annoying little planes for as long as we feel like it and you can just lump it." I'm just guessing, but I suspect that there are a finite number of AWACS planes up there looking for terrorists who just might still be planning to try something. Big planes up high flying in straight lines on IFR flight plans with transponders on have got to be a lot easier to track than lots of little planes (some of which don't reflect radar all that well) flying low and popping up and then disappearing just about anywhere. AWACS resources that are not tied up watching us play might be better deployed in Afghanistan or somewhere else where more dangerous things might be happening. Now, if that's the case and they'd have just said so, would any of you guys be bitching about staying on the ground until things settle down? We deserve administrators who treat us as serious, concerned citizens, and not as potential terrorists. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2001
From: "J Andrews" <rv8a(at)lycos.com>
Subject: Never know what you got till it's gone...
I just got off the phone with my congressman's office. Before that I contacted both the senators. I have never done this in my life before. It's no big deal. You register your view and it will be given to your representative. If thousands of us call we WILL be heard. I firmly believe that a call ( daily ) is more profound a statement than a letter. We need to beat these guys door down with complaints NOW! If you don't do this then you do not deserve to fly VFR. The longer you wait, the harder it will be to get our privileges back. If we are not vocal about this then they will assume that we don't miss it and we may NEVER get it back. Government works on the sqeaky wheel principle. The louder you shout, the more bandwidth you get. We need LOTS of voices out there to be heard. If you think that this does not apply to you because your still building then think again. If VFR becomes more restricted or nonexistant then the kit manufactures like Van's WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS. Then it will not matter if your IFR quailified or not you will be S.O.L. I understand that less than 20% of the traffic at GA airports is IFR. The FBOs and the flight schools will not be able to stay in business just servicing their IFR clients. Say good buy to federal bucks for upgrading your local airports as well. ALL the money is allocated based on need. Less pilots, less need. I'm not militant by any means but if you stand by and let this opportunity slip through your fingers you WILL loose, we all WILL. In Texas: Senator Phil Graham 214-767-3000 Senator Kay Hutchinson 916-5834 Congressman Doggett 916-5921 - Jim Andrews N89JA ( flying again some day soon I hope ) Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S. http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2001
From: N8335E(at)aol.com
Subject: IFR certification for homebuilts
The list discussion regarding IFR certification for homebuilts was the first that I had ever considered or heard that there might be different standards for homebuilts and certified standard category aircraft. Aside from the pilot being IFR rated and current, what is involved in getting approval to operate our RV-s and other homebuilts as IFR aircraft? Henry H rv-6 n72224 KAWO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com>
Subject: Filing IFR for yanking & banking
Date: Sep 19, 2001
----- Original Message ----- From: <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 8:36 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Care > > This is a serious question; nothing sarcastic or rhetorical implied; I really > want to know. IFR certification of plane and pilot, while expensive and > time-consuming, is less so than relocation to Alaska, Canada, or Australia, > (A.K.A. the Free World) which seem to be my other options. Here's my > question: what would be the procedure for filing IFR for the scenario where > I wanted to take off from my backyard airstrip (no ground radio contact > possible with anyone except circling overhead aircraft), tool around the > neighborhood, circle the other private airstrips to see if my neighborhood > buddies are flying (or out mowing their runways and needing a buzz-job), > joining up for some formation-flying along the river if they happen to be up > flying, popping over to HSP to buy some 100-LL, and then circling the local > lakeside state park and possibly the Young Life Camp on the way back home. > > I have often called up the local approach control (actually the Memphis ATC tower) on the telephone, obtained an IFR clearance and transponder code, then launched off to do a number of approaches in the Memphis area - an ILS into Millington, holding over Gilmore VOR then a GPS approach back into my home airport. All the controllers want to know is where you're going and what you want to do. I suppose if you told them you wanted to "maneuver" in a certain area, they would allow you to do so. The only difference doing this IFR vs VFR would be the separation required from other aircraft while on an IFR clearance. An IFR "flight plan" is not required to do this as long as you have authorization from ATC. I'm guessing that the FAA's "incremental" phase-in of VFR operations will be something like the above scenario, i.e., one will be able to depart VFR only after obtaining a transponder code and authorization from ATC. Jerry Carter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: RE: RV-List Digest: 131 Msgs - 09/18/01
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Folks, We need to flood the Whitehouse with emails and letters. Tell them the name of every person and company that is going out of business in your areas, due to their incompetence. http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/ the following is an excerpt of my most recent letter <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mr. President, You said we were to continue to conduct business as normal, but then you have let your Chiefs of Staff continue to unilaterally target General Aviation by not allowing VFR aircraft to fly. This is very rapidly putting hundreds of thousands of Americans out of business. Yet your staff as no basis for this. VFR Aviation didn't cause this. All four aircraft "weapons" used last Teusday were under IFR control. In fact VFR Aviation has never once been the direct cause of a major commercial airliner disaster in this country. But your staff has made emotional, uninformed, and incredibly incompetant decisions due to the mistaken concept that VFR aircraft are "uncontrolled" so therefore are untrustworthy. Guess what Sir, the only control any controller has over an aircraft is a radio wave. Most cities have airports close enough that if a hostile deviation were to occur on final approach, or just after takeoff, nothing would ever be able to stop it from hitting whatever it wanted to in that city, regardless of the type of control the aircraft was operating under. Yet your staff has allowed the most dangerous section of Aviation (due to their physical size) to continue to operate with limited (FAR Part 121 Operators) to no (FAR Part 135 Operators)changes in security or operating procedures, while at the same time targeting a hugh national industry that poses the least amount of threat. What your staff has done is said to every American Pilot that The United States government doesn't trust you. Sir, as an American, and a Pilot who has been as loyal, if not more loyal than you have ever been, I am offended. Your staff owes the American People an apology, and it won't be too long before the press figures this out. Additionally these decisions made by your staff are jepordizing millions of American lives and livelyhoods. It is sincerely my hope that your Staff has the intelligence to make sure you get this email. I do not mean any disrespect to you or your office, but I can assure you, my students expect me to be competent, it is therefore very appropriate for me to expect the same from you and your staff. Thank you for your time Wheeler O. North A Concerned American <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please take the time to write your representatives in Congress as well, on a daily basis. thx W ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2001
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org>
Subject: Re: Filing IFR for yanking & banking
I don't know if this is allowed in the U.S., but in Canada you can get a clearance for a block of airspace. The block is usually defined by two radials, two DMEs, and two altitudes. Visit your local ATC and see what they say. You'll need to be in a low-density area. Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: I promise only one
Date: Sep 19, 2001
I had to add my .02 to this discussion. First of all, I love my country, but do not blindly trust my government. The FAA and Military are acting irrationally, overzealously, and economically irrosponsibly. That is a fact. But, and its a big but, SO WHAT. Suck it up. I normally fly 3 times a week, I'm goin crazy. So what. Think about those 5000 poor people burried under the WTC. Think about if some home grown wacko (american citizen) tries a copy cat attack with an AirTractor loaded with 12000 lbs of fuel instead of bug killer. Think about the small flight schools who are getting killed by this. Do what I did, go excercise a constitutional right, go shooting. Great stress relief, and when the cop hikes into the woods where you are shooting and asks what you are doing, politely and with respect, tell him "I'm excercising my constitutional right, because they took the privelige of flying away from me last week" Then invite him to fire a few rounds. The officer and I ended up talking for the next half hour. As he left he said he would tell dispatch that if any more paranoid people called in, that everything was ok. It wasn't an islamic milita warming up. Do something other than fly. I've found this is agreat time for some forced maintenance. Be a little patient given the events of the past week. But be vigilant. If this grounding goes on excessively long, or becomes a knee jerk reaction every time something happens. Then it will be time to become activists. Its a different world out there. Don Mei RV-4 Chester, CT "Any man who is willing to trade freedom for safety deserves neither" Thomas Jefferson Don Mei 23 Kings Lane Essex, CT 06426 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2001
From: "Rodney Boyd" <rboyd(at)dcccd.edu>
Subject: Re: Never know what you got till it's gone...
I faxed my reps yesterday afternoon. I used the argument that the little guy FBOs would be out of business soon if we were unable to continue to purchase fuel and other services from them. I believe that for some FBOs it'll be weeks rather than months before they go toes up. My FBO friend in Terrell, TX has pumped less than 50 gals of 100LL and zero JET since 11SEPT. Rod >>> rv8a(at)lycos.com 09/19/01 01:01PM >>> I just got off the phone with my congressman's office. Before that I contacted both the senators. I have never done this in my life before. It's no big deal. You register your view and it will be given to your representative. If thousands of us call we WILL be heard. I firmly believe that a call ( daily ) is more profound a statement than a letter. We need to beat these guys door down with complaints NOW! If you don't do this then you do not deserve to fly VFR. The longer you wait, the harder it will be to get our privileges back. If we are not vocal about this then they will assume that we don't miss it and we may NEVER get it back. Government works on the sqeaky wheel principle. The louder you shout, the more bandwidth you get. We need LOTS of voices out there to be heard. If you think that this does not apply to you because your still building then think again. If VFR becomes more restricted or nonexistant then the kit manufactures like Van's WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS. Then it will not matter if your IFR quailified or not you will be S.O.L. I understand that less than 20% of the traffic at GA airports is IFR. The FBOs and the flight schools will not be able to stay in business just servicing their IFR clients. Say good buy to federal bucks for upgrading your local airports as well. ALL the money is allocated based on need. Less pilots, less need. I'm not militant by any means but if you stand by and let this opportunity slip through your fingers you WILL loose, we all WILL. In Texas: Senator Phil Graham 214-767-3000 Senator Kay Hutchinson 916-5834 Congressman Doggett 916-5921 - Jim Andrews N89JA ( flying again some day soon I hope ) Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S. http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: AOPA says Limited VFR coming later today
Date: Sep 19, 2001
The AOPA website says that they will issue a Notam later today allowing some limited VFR, no hint as to what that means. www.aopa.org if you are not a member, join, they have been working their buts off on this. America is fighting back, God Bless America!! Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Bob Archer Address
Date: Sep 19, 2001
bobsantennas(at)earthlink.com Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: <Lenleg(at)aol.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 11:20 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: Bob Archer Address List: I tried the archives but can't come up with contact information for Bob Archer. Help !! Len Leggette, RV-8A Greensboro, N.C. N910LL (res) Hooking up systems ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Jim Weber Larry Pink" , Paul Chlapecka Steve Adams
Subject: RE: RV-List Digest: 131 Msgs - 09/18/01
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Folks, This is the web address to the US House of Rep http://www.house.gov/writerep/ and the US Senate http://www.senate.gov/senators/senator_by_state.cfm and the Whitehouse http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/ Please write them all on a daily basis about this continued insanity towards VFR flight. thx Wheeler North ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "J R Saunders" <jr182pilot(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Never know what you got till it's gone...
Date: Sep 19, 2001
I to am worried about losing the FBO's....So here is an idea that all of us can do. Just takes a small amount trust on our part......... Go to your FBO and buy some gas (on the books) pay your hanger rent a month or two in advance or your tie down. Maybe even offer to mow the grass. Were not flying, so we should all have some free time to offer. Hell we could even paint the Rwy #s.......Just an idea, guys.... J R............ the little guy FBOs would be out I believe that for some FBOs it'll be weeks rather than months before they go toes up. Rod > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2001
From: Steven Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com>
Subject: Re: Filing IFR for yanking & banking
On Wed, 19 Sep 2001, Jerry Carter wrote: > > > > This is a serious question; nothing sarcastic or rhetorical implied; I > really [snip] > > I have often called up the local approach control (actually the Memphis ATC > tower) on the telephone, obtained an IFR clearance and transponder code, > then launched off to do a number of approaches in the Memphis area - an ILS > into Millington, holding over Gilmore VOR then a GPS approach back into my > home airport. All the controllers want to know is where you're going and > what you want to do. I suppose if you told them you wanted to "maneuver" in > a certain area, they would allow you to do so. The only difference doing > this IFR vs VFR would be the separation required from other aircraft while > on an IFR clearance. An IFR "flight plan" is not required to do this as long > as you have authorization from ATC. > > Jerry Carter While waiting for the local ceiling to lift, about 6 months ago, I asked my instructor if he wanted to do a little instrument instruction to pass the time. We took off IFR with about a 300 ft. ceiling and got vectors out to the practice area. We spent the hour flying around in the practice area, 0 visability, doing slow flight, procedure turns, practice holding patterns and even stalls while in the clouds. When we were finished playing around ATC gave us vectors back to the field. Seems like a lot of workload for ATC when in VMC but if that is what they want to do. Steve Eberhart RV-7A, working on the tail, wing "in the mail", N14SE reserved One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: proseal on canopies
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Vince, We used the Blue painting masking tape on the entire inside and outside of the canopy. In addition, we used the tubes of sem-weld, which are easier to work with. We also cleaned up any drips immediately. Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A (16 hrs) Niantic, CT (Westerly airport) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Murphy, Richard James (Rick)" <rjmurphy1(at)lucent.com>
Subject: Filing IFR for yanking & banking
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Sorry Jerry, No can do. You clearance is either going to be direct Podunk to Loveland or Podunk, v31, v69, whithall, v9, Loveland, cleared to 3000 expect 9000 15 min after departure, squak 3721, readback. Its pretty hard for them to control you doing turns over the neighbors farm. To the best of my knowledge, formation flight on an IFR FP is a no-no and acro on a victor a/w is verboten. Rick RV4-emp > ---------- > From: Jerry Carter[SMTP:jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com] > Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 4:39 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Filing IFR for yanking & banking > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 8:36 AM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Care > > > > > > This is a serious question; nothing sarcastic or rhetorical implied; I > really > > want to know. IFR certification of plane and pilot, while expensive and > > time-consuming, is less so than relocation to Alaska, Canada, or > Australia, > > (A.K.A. the Free World) which seem to be my other options. Here's my > > question: what would be the procedure for filing IFR for the scenario > where > > I wanted to take off from my backyard airstrip (no ground radio contact > > possible with anyone except circling overhead aircraft), tool around the > > neighborhood, circle the other private airstrips to see if my > neighborhood > > buddies are flying (or out mowing their runways and needing a buzz-job), > > joining up for some formation-flying along the river if they happen to > be > up > > flying, popping over to HSP to buy some 100-LL, and then circling the > local > > lakeside state park and possibly the Young Life Camp on the way back > home. > > > > > I have often called up the local approach control (actually the Memphis > ATC > tower) on the telephone, obtained an IFR clearance and transponder code, > then launched off to do a number of approaches in the Memphis area - an > ILS > into Millington, holding over Gilmore VOR then a GPS approach back into my > home airport. All the controllers want to know is where you're going and > what you want to do. I suppose if you told them you wanted to "maneuver" > in > a certain area, they would allow you to do so. The only difference doing > this IFR vs VFR would be the separation required from other aircraft while > on an IFR clearance. An IFR "flight plan" is not required to do this as > long > as you have authorization from ATC. > > I'm guessing that the FAA's "incremental" phase-in of VFR operations will > be > something like the above scenario, i.e., one will be able to depart VFR > only > after obtaining a transponder code and authorization from ATC. > > Jerry Carter > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2001
From: Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Archer Antennas
Len, Bob's e-mail address is: bobsantennas(at)earthlink.net Jim D. RV-7A Installing Side Scan Radar pod in empenage... Anyone know where the best place to mount chaff...? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2001
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org>
Subject: Filing IFR for yanking & banking
On Wed, 19 Sep 2001, Murphy, Richard James (Rick) wrote: --snip-- > > To the best of my knowledge, formation flight on an IFR FP is a no-no I've flown formation IFR in the U.S., in a Canadian military plane. When we go there we are under FAA rules the same as everyone else. So I suspect you can file IFR with a formation. Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: Filing IFR for yanking & banking
Date: Sep 19, 2001
> > Sorry Jerry, > Its pretty hard for them to control you doing turns over the neighbors > farm. To the best of my knowledge, formation flight on an IFR FP is a no-no > and acro on a victor a/w is verboten. > > Rick > RV4-emp If there is a rule against formation IFR, I would like to see it. I am not aware of one. and have done it. VMC formation on an IFR flight plan, and IMC formation on a VFR flight plan. (The latter was single engine in a multi-engine airplane.) Yeah, I know that's not quite right, but things don't always work the way they are supposed to. (and the staute of limitations has long passed) If you are good enough, or crazy enough, you can go join up and blast off in the wild white yonder, go for it. You better have practiced, cause it gets real busy and you will soon know what blindfolded cockpit checks are for. I also don't know why you could not do Acro on a IFR flight plan if you got a block altitude and were off the airways. Any good reason why not??? If you did either and had any kind of problem, or they decided their must be a reason why you can't do that, they would bust you for "careless and reckless." The rules are intentionally ambiguous to allow arbitrary enforcement. And that is no accident. (Unfortunately I have some experience with this as well.) Still waiting for the VFR notam. Doug Rozendaal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Goodwin" <toyguy(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Never know what you got till it's gone...
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Well said Jim. I was actually on the phone with my Congressional representatives offices today, asking why I'd had no response to my email. I made it quite clear that I expected some action and a reply and reminded them I have a long memory and I always vote. I'll give them another couple days to reply then I'll be on the horn again. I made all the points I made in my email to the aide answering the phone and reminded him that Alaskans are flying. I asked if there was nothing in Alaska susceptible to terrorism, like pipelines, supertankers and such and how that was different than little ol' rural Vermont. I think he got my drift. I also told him they should be making plans to subsidize the GA industry if they do so for the airlines, who are already screaming for billions. We'll see. We absolutely need to be flooding everyone we can think of about this before it's too late. Letters to the editor are next on my agenda. Dave Thinking about an RV-9 but waiting until I know I can fly it once it's done : ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Andrews" <rv8a(at)lycos.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 2:01 PM Subject: RV-List: Never know what you got till it's gone... > > > I just got off the phone with my congressman's office. Before that I contacted both the senators. I have never done this in my life before. It's no big deal. You register your view and it will be given to your representative. If thousands of us call we WILL be heard. I firmly believe that a call ( daily ) is more profound a statement than a letter. We need to beat these guys door down with complaints NOW! > > If you don't do this then you do not deserve to fly VFR. > > The longer you wait, the harder it will be to get our privileges back. If we are not vocal about this then they will assume that we don't miss it and we may NEVER get it back. Government works on the sqeaky wheel principle. The louder you shout, the more bandwidth you get. We need LOTS of voices out there to be heard. > > If you think that this does not apply to you because your still building then think again. If VFR becomes more restricted or nonexistant then the kit manufactures like Van's WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS. Then it will not matter if your IFR quailified or not you will be S.O.L. I understand that less than 20% of the traffic at GA airports is IFR. The FBOs and the flight schools will not be able to stay in business just servicing their IFR clients. Say good buy to federal bucks for upgrading your local airports as well. ALL the money is allocated based on need. Less pilots, less need. > > I'm not militant by any means but if you stand by and let this opportunity slip through your fingers you WILL loose, we all WILL. > > In Texas: > > Senator Phil Graham 214-767-3000 > Senator Kay Hutchinson 916-5834 > Congressman Doggett 916-5921 > > - Jim Andrews > N89JA ( flying again some day soon I hope ) > > > Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S. > http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Kitz" <jkitz(at)greenapple.com>
Subject: Fw: VFR flying
Date: Sep 19, 2001
I sent an email to Tom P yesterday and hewre is the answer. John Kitz N721JK Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Knapinski" <dknapinski(at)eaa.org> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 4:20 PM Subject: VFR flying > John: > > Thanks for your e-mail. Tom Poberezny and I talked about your inquiry this > morning and he asked me to reply to you personally. Hopefully you've heard > the good news that a significant part of the VFR airspace will be re-opening > on Wednesday afternoon. FAA Administrator Jane Garvey called Tom this > afternoon for a personal briefing on the matter. It is a very good first > step. EAA, along with AOPA and other aviation groups, has been working > non-stop to restore the freedoms and privileges of flight to the point where > they were prior to Sept. 11 -- representing their members as well as all > general aviation enthusiasts. > > EAA has been working with people in FAA, DOT, Dept. of Defense, the U.S. > Congress and other areas to get VFR flights operating once again. In every > contact, we have been emphasizing that this shutdown is harming people > economically -- people who generally operate on small margins and have > continual high expenses. In addition, we have noted that people who have > earned their flying privileges are not being allowed to keep their skills > updated and, of course, flight training has come to a standstill. > > The economic impact on general aviation has been substantial and has been a > major point of emphasis in our communications with top government officials. > Administrator Garvey has discussed this with Tom Poberezny, and agrees with > EAA's position that general aviation is deeply hurt by the continuing > shutdown. > > This is uncharted territory for everyone -- from the massive attack in > America, to the complete shutdown of the nation's airspace, to the current > efforts to balance security concerns with the economic danger present for > the airlines and general aviation. EAA is posting continual updates on its > web site (www.eaa.org), which brings you the latest news on the situation. > I encourage you to check that out regularly. > > I can't speak to the personal reasons or agendas on why some people may > believe one organization has been working harder than another on this issue > -- every general aviation organization I know has been putting tremendous > unified effort into this situation. > > Thanks again for your e-mail. Please let me know if you have any other > questions. > > Best, > Dick Knapinski > EAA OSH > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: VFR FLight
Date: Sep 19, 2001
I'm sorry, but I have to respond to this. Predictability of traffic? They did a great job of that last Teusday with fully "controlled" IFR traffic! VFR traffic could be easily made more predictable by having the tower or closest reasonable controller,that you are required to contact upon taxi, assigning you a unique transponder code. You would be required to tell them what you are up to, and the rest of the flight is handled by VFR with flight following. If you don't have a Xponder they can still attach a tag to you on the radar systems. If you don't have a radio, get one. In other words, file a VFR flight plan, call someone on the radio and go. The only other option is to stay in the airport traffic area for the total duration of the flight, which, by the way, provides the exact same level of predictablility found in IFR flight. 52000 people a year die in automobiles in America, so certainly this reaction isn't a function of the number dead. If it is, then why didn't they outlaw cars in 1921? Time? They don't need more time to continue being incompetent, they are putting people out of business, out of their livelyhood, and jepordizing the rest of us in several ways, one by not providing opportunities for real security, and two, by forcing all of us to become non-proficient. The plans they are currently implementing only provide small increases in Part 121 security, and they have done nothing,,, repeat nothing, to implement increases in Part 135 security, which can include all types of aircraft except for Part 121 airliners. Tell me an IFR 135 operating King Air full of ammoninum nitrate wouldn't make a major dent in any building, anywhere. As far as National Security, just shoot down anything within 50 miles of DC that isn't cleared to Dulles, or 5 miles of a military base or nuke plant/boat etc. "Given that our country is recently under attack" It has been under attack for the last 30 years and our government has not been able to do squat didilly about it, nor have they made much effort to do squat didilly about it. (Other than spending $2.0 M to execute a camel {Thank you Mr. Clinton}) So now we are going to really affect changes in all this by grounding VFR flight, and putting thousands of highly trained individuals out of work? No matter what angle you come at this thing from, the logic for it isn't there, and waiting another week isn't going to magically make it logical. This isn't about a bunch of folks who want to go flying, this is about a national industry being killed for no apparent reason other than whimsical decisions made by uninformed, incompetent buffoons sitting in the Ready Room. Oh, and file IFR, sorry only those who are already IFR rated/grandfathered can do that, no one else can even become IFR rated under the current reign of bureaucratic terror. In fact, the only way for the anyone to become a pilot right now is to join the military. Kinda scary, in my humble opinion. I also think SoCal Tracon would be slightly miffed if I were to file a GPS direct IFR flight plan for Right Closed Traffic just to practice full stop landings. Wheeler North IA, AP Instructor From: "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: Anyone know why? How about several off the top of my head : 1) More predictable traffic: When you go VFR, no one in the ARTCC or TRACON knows where you are going. 2) More security: Ashcroft has said that more attacks are a very real possibility, given what evidence they have found. While a Cessna, Cherokee, or RV wouldn't cause physical damage of the same magnitude as a 757, I suspect it would still a fair amount of psychological damage to the nation. 3) Time: The FBI investigation is in full swing and is chasing down people on commercial air traffic, trains, buses, etc. If another week helps, then so be it. Here's another point to consider: What if VFR traffic was suddenly allowed, and a terrorist (or wannabe) takes off in a Cherokee and then intentionally crashes it into something. You can bet your sweet a*s that that would be the end of VFR GA. Again, given that more terrorism is possible, this is a realistic scenario. Given that our country has come under attack, given that our service men and women will be put in harm's way in this war on terrorism, and given that thousands of lives have been lost, it seems a little soon to be writing legislators demanding that your VFR flying *privileges* be restored. Finally if you really want to go flying, file IFR (grab a CFII or an instrument rated friend if not rated) and go flying. Nobody is stopping you from doing this, and you can go anywhere you want (TFRs and prohibited areas excepted, of course). Grabbing the Nomex... Brad RV6AQ underway... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: VFR Flight Restrictions
Date: Sep 19, 2001
I can understand the "why" part of the restrictions, but have to wonder why my little RV6A is such a potential threat that it cannot be allowed to fly, while tanker trucks with 10,000 gallons of fuel can drive anywhere in any city in the US without any restrictions. Go figure! John at Salida, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject:
Date: Sep 19, 2001
VFR Airspace Opens Through Much of U.S. - More Information - Tom Poberezny Messages NOTAMs Event Updates FAQs Relief Help e-Hot Line Restricted Airspace Maps FAA Administrator Updates Updated: 9/19/01 7:35 p.m. U.S. Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta announced late today that much of the nation's airspace available to pilots flying under Visual Flight Rules (VFR) has been reopened, with restrictions remaining in major metropolitan areas and flight training. EAA, which has worked diligently over the past week for restoration of general aviation access to the national airspace, called the move a very positive first step. Earlier Wednesday, EAA president Tom Poberezny received a call from FAA Administrator Jane Garvey, briefing him on the opening of significant national airspace segments to VFR traffic, specifically addressing "recreational flying, air shows, ultralights and a variety of general aviation activities." FAA issued a NOTAM on this issue with specific details on airspace access. "This reopening of major portions of VFR airspace with no restrictions is very good news, especially at a time when no news was creating a confusing and chaotic situation within general aviation," Poberezny said. "As we've continually stated, we wanted VFR flight to return as it was previous to Sept. 11, with no lasting effects." "The announcement allows the nation's aviators access to some airspace," he said. "In conjunction with that announcement, it's important for a continuing balance between the nation's security issues and the needs of the country's aviation infrastructure and potential severe economic impact. We can't stop here." EAA and its affiliate, the National Association of Flight Instructors (NAFI), remain committed to addressing the remaining prohibited areas for VFR flight and flight training, which continue to cause economic hardships throughout the country. "As access to the national airspace widens, it is of extreme importance that every pilot exercises outstanding airmanship and professionalism," Poberezny added. "Be especially aware of Class B airspace and restricted areas. Understandably, during this time of national crisis, it is absolutely critical that aviators operate responsibly." Administrator Garvey reiterated to Poberezny that she is committed to continuing efforts with the Department of Defense and national security officials regarding the incremental release of more VFR airspace in the future. Garvey also assured Poberezny that she would be in constant contact with him regarding developments in this dynamic situation. Poberezny acknowledged the efforts of Secretary Mineta, Administrator Garvey and their agencies in supporting general aviation in this matter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Filing IFR for yanking & banking
Date: Sep 19, 2001
If you want to just go up and fart around IFR it's not a problem, even in actual IFR conditions. Just contact clearance and tell them what you want to do and where you want to do it. I frequently used this technique when training for my IFR rating. They would give us a "block" altitude and told us to stay between certain radials from a given VOR and a certain distance from the radial. I don't remember the phraseology, but they gave us a heading to fly on departure and an altitude. Once we reached our DME from the VOR, they told us to stay between two radials usually about 10 degrees apart and between 10 and 20 DME from the radial. We did whatever we had to do in that area then contacted approach control to fly the published approach or get vectors for the approach. We only ony used this method when the weather was below min's. I wouldn't recommend flying this way with just any old IFR instructor. I remember the clearance being very confusing for a new IFR trainee and it was easy to get "lost" at bust the restrictions. My IFR instructor was very good and we never had any problems. If you've got a cell phone, you can get out of any airport by calling Flight Service and let them coordinate the departure. You can negotiate a 5 or 10 minute void time and that should be plenty of time. The other feature that can be used is the old VFR on Top clause. You can always ask for VFR on Top and as long as it's VFR conditions and you tell them what you want to do, the controllers will probably let you do pretty much what you please. You're still on an IFR flight plan so as long as you adhere to that you'll probably be ok. Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com Plainfield, IL RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps Stinson 108-2 N9666K> > > > > > This is a serious question; nothing sarcastic or rhetorical implied; I > really > > want to know. IFR certification of plane and pilot, while expensive and > > time-consuming, is less so than relocation to Alaska, Canada, or > Australia, > > (A.K.A. the Free World) which seem to be my other options. Here's my > > question: what would be the procedure for filing IFR for the scenario > where > > I wanted to take off from my backyard airstrip (no ground radio contact > > possible with anyone except circling overhead aircraft), tool around the > > neighborhood, circle the other private airstrips to see if my neighborhood > > buddies are flying (or out mowing their runways and needing a buzz-job), > > joining up for some formation-flying along the river if they happen to be > up > > flying, popping over to HSP to buy some 100-LL, and then circling the > local > > lakeside state park and possibly the Young Life Camp on the way back home. > > > > > I have often called up the local approach control (actually the Memphis ATC > tower) on the telephone, obtained an IFR clearance and transponder code, > then launched off to do a number of approaches in the Memphis area - an ILS > into Millington, holding over Gilmore VOR then a GPS approach back into my > home airport. All the controllers want to know is where you're going and > what you want to do. I suppose if you told them you wanted to "maneuver" in > a certain area, they would allow you to do so. The only difference doing > this IFR vs VFR would be the separation required from other aircraft while > on an IFR clearance. An IFR "flight plan" is not required to do this as long > as you have authorization from ATC. > > I'm guessing that the FAA's "incremental" phase-in of VFR operations will be > something like the above scenario, i.e., one will be able to depart VFR only > after obtaining a transponder code and authorization from ATC. > > Jerry Carter > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Subject: Re: Randall Henderson on Sporty's
To bad his head will no longer fit in the canopy! So Randall how windy is it with the canopy open? -Rob Hickman (RV-4 Under Class B airspace in Oakland) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard McCraw" <rmccraw(at)wcvt.com>
Subject: Some VFR restored
Date: Sep 19, 2001
I haven't seen this mentioned yet, so I'll jump in. It looks like a lot of VFR privileges/rights (no flames on the distinction, please) are finally back. Take at look at the notam at http://38.200.9.137/010915tfr.html#special . Rick McCraw ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net>
"Rocket List"
Subject: VFR Ban lifted???
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Excuss me but does anyone see Aircraft in this list below. Looks like I can bring my plane home if stuck out. Test fly if still in that phase. But I don't see the 100 dollar hamburger or VFR "fun" flying listed. Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA copied from EAA site: B. EXAMPLES OF AUTHORIZED OPERATIONS, OUTSIDE "ENHANCED CLASS B AIRSPACE" INCLUDE: 1. AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE REPOSITIONING. 2. BALLOONS. 3. CIVIL AIR PATROL. 4. GLIDERS. 5. MANUFACTURER PRODUCTION FLIGHT TESTS. 6. MAPPING/PHOTOGRAPHY MISSIONS. 7. PIPELINE/POWERLINE INSPECTIONS. 8. SEAPLANES. 9. SKYDIVING. 10. ULTRALIGHTS. 11. WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT OPERATIONS. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Some VFR restored NOTAM
Date: Sep 19, 2001
!Fdc 1/0215 Special notice Attention all operators - special notice effective immediately Until further notice. Pursuant to 14 cfr 91.139 (emergency air Traffic rules), part 91 ifr and vfr aircraft operation are Authorized as specified in notams 1/0111 and 1/0112. To the extent That contrary language exists, this notam shall supercede. Note: for purposes of this notam, the "territorial airspace of the u.s." means the airspace over the u.s., its territories and Possessions and the airspace overlying the waters between the U.s. coast and 12 nautical miles from the u.s. coast. Note: for purposes of this notam, an overflight means the Aircraft takes off from and lands at locations outside the u.s., its territories or possessions but enroute transits the territorial airspace of the u.s. without landing in the u.s., its territories orpossessions. Note: for the purposes of this notam, "enhanced class b airspace" is defined as that airspace within the extreme lateral limit of class b airpace from surface to infinity (i.e. such operations are not authorized within, below, or above class b airspace): Part i. Except for the operations listed below, part 91 vfr Operation are permitted within the territorial airspace of the U.s., for u.s. registered aircraft provided that those operations are conducted outside "enhanced class b airspace." A. The following types of operations are not authorized: 1. Civil aircraft vfr flight training operations 2. Banner towing operations 3. Sight seeing flight operations conducted for Compensation or hire (under part 91, pursuant to the exception in 119.1(e)(2)) 4. Traffic watch flight operations 5. Airship/blimp operations 6. News reporting operations B. Examples of authorized operations, outside "enhanced class b airspace" include: 1. Aircraft maintenance repositioning. 2. Balloons. 3. Civil air patrol. 4. Gliders. 5. Manufacturer production flight tests. 6. Mapping/photography missions. 7. Pipeline/powerline inspections. 8. Seaplanes. 9. Skydiving. 10. Ultralights. 11. Wildlife management operations. Part ii. The following part 91 ifr operations are authorized Within the territorial airspace of the u.s. 1. Foreign registered aircraft departing the u.s. with no inter- Mediate stops within the u.s. 2. Foreign registered aircraft overflying the u.s. with a gross Takeoff weight less than 95,000 pounds. Part iii. Authorizations. 1. All part 91 ifr/vfr operations are authorized in alaskan Airspace. 2. Within "enhanced class b airspace," all medivac, Rescue/recovery, fire fighting, law enforcement, and emergency evacuation aircraft can conduct ifr or vfr operations using an atc-assigned discrete beacon code. 3. Commercial space operations are authorized and must be Approved in accordance with established procedures. Part iv. If you are unsure of your authorization status contact local faa flight service station at 1-800-wxbrief. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard McCraw" <rmccraw(at)wcvt.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 8:50 PM Subject: RV-List: Some VFR restored I haven't seen this mentioned yet, so I'll jump in. It looks like a lot of VFR privileges/rights (no flames on the distinction, please) are finally back. Take at look at the notam at http://38.200.9.137/010915tfr.html#special . Rick McCraw ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2001
From: Larry & Karen Gooding <GOODING(at)hargray.com>
Subject: Re: VFR Flight Restrictions
John, I know it won't make you feel much better, but a tanker truck carrying 10,000 gallons of fuel has plenty of restrictions on where and when it can operate. It absolutely may not be driven down most city streets under any circumstances, and if caught away from a permitted route is subject to large fines and even possible immediate arrest of the driver. This was the case long before the events of Sept 11th. "Big trucks" are burdened by regulations and usage fees that would stagger commercial aviation. They deliver just about 100% of everything we need for daily life, including the parts for this RV-6. Karen Gooding > >I can understand the "why" part of the restrictions, but have to wonder why >my little RV6A is such a potential threat that it cannot be allowed to fly, >while tanker trucks with 10,000 gallons of fuel can drive anywhere in any >city in the US without any restrictions. Go figure! > >John at Salida, CO > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2001
From: Arthur Glaser <airplane(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: VFR Flight Restrictions
Does this include only the primary class b airspace or does in include airports under the outer portion of the 30 mile (transponder required) veil? Larry & Karen Gooding wrote: > > John, > > I know it won't make you feel much better, but a tanker truck carrying > 10,000 gallons of fuel has plenty of restrictions on where and when it can > operate. It absolutely may not be driven down most city streets under any > circumstances, and if caught away from a permitted route is subject to > large fines and even possible immediate arrest of the driver. This was the > case long before the events of Sept 11th. > > "Big trucks" are burdened by regulations and usage fees that would stagger > commercial aviation. They deliver just about 100% of everything we need > for daily life, including the parts for this RV-6. > > Karen Gooding > > > > >I can understand the "why" part of the restrictions, but have to wonder why > >my little RV6A is such a potential threat that it cannot be allowed to fly, > >while tanker trucks with 10,000 gallons of fuel can drive anywhere in any > >city in the US without any restrictions. Go figure! > > > >John at Salida, CO > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve dinieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: VFR Ban lifted???
Date: Sep 20, 2001
Bring your camera and call it a photography mission...myself, I can justify every flight as a test flight... Steve DiNieri Rv6a N221RV Still only 24.99 hours Excuss me but does anyone see Aircraft in this list below. Looks like I can bring my plane home if stuck out. Test fly if still in that phase. But I don't see the 100 dollar hamburger or VFR "fun" flying listed. Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA copied from EAA site: B. EXAMPLES OF AUTHORIZED OPERATIONS, OUTSIDE "ENHANCED CLASS B AIRSPACE" INCLUDE: 1. AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE REPOSITIONING. 2. BALLOONS. 3. CIVIL AIR PATROL. 4. GLIDERS. 5. MANUFACTURER PRODUCTION FLIGHT TESTS. 6. MAPPING/PHOTOGRAPHY MISSIONS. 7. PIPELINE/POWERLINE INSPECTIONS. 8. SEAPLANES. 9. SKYDIVING. 10. ULTRALIGHTS. 11. WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT OPERATIONS. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Gesele" <sgesele(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Avionics Shop In The Northeast ?
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Listers, Can anyone recommend an avionics shop in the Northeast US? I have a King KX-125 whose nav side just went dead and I'm due for a pitot static test. Two years ago I was charged $400 for that pitot static test at Islip Avionics. That price appears to be quite high. I'm located on Long Island, so any shop within 200 nm would be an easy trip. Any feedback or info would be greatly appreciated. Scott Gesele N506RV 450+ hr and looking forward to getting back into the air ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Hanson" <kmhanson3(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: VFR Ban lifted???
Date: Sep 19, 2001
It says all VFR flights are authorize expect those types listed (like VFR instruction). The next list has EXAMPLES of type of flights that are permitted. So since we aren't exclude from flight by the first list, we can fly VFR (unless you are currently on the ground in Class B airspace, like someone has posted). Kevin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve dinieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: We Can FLY!!!
Date: Sep 20, 2001
As of 8:20 pm 9/19 FDC 1/0224 ATTENTION ALL OPERATORS - SPECIAL NOTICE EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. PURSUANT TO 14 CFR 91.139 (EMERGENCY AIR TRAFFIC RULES), PART 91 IFR AND VFR AIRCRAFT OPERATION ARE AUTHORIZED AS SPECIFIED IN NOTAMS 1/0111 AND 1/0112. [0111 and 0112 are identical--ed.] TO THE EXTENT THAT CONTRARY LANGUAGE EXISTS, THIS NOTAM SHALL SUPERCEDE. NOTE: FOR PURPOSES OF THIS NOTAM, THE "TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE OF THE U.S." MEANS THE AIRSPACE OVER THE U.S., ITS TERRITORIES AND POSSESSIONS AND THE AIRSPACE OVERLYING THE WATERS BETWEEN THE U.S. COAST AND 12 NAUTICAL MILES FROM THE U.S. COAST. NOTE: FOR PURPOSES OF THIS NOTAM, AN OVERFLIGHT MEANS THE AIRCRAFT TAKES OFF FROM AND LANDS AT LOCATIONS OUTSIDE THE U.S., ITS TERRITORIES OR POSSESSIONS BUT ENROUTE TRANSITS THE TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE OF THE U.S. WITHOUT LANDING IN THE U.S., ITS TERRITORIES OR POSSESSIONS. NOTE: FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS NOTAM, "ENHANCED CLASS B AIRSPACE" IS DEFINED AS THAT AIRSPACE WITHIN THE EXTREME LATERAL LIMIT OF CLASS B AIRPACE FROM SURFACE TO INFINITY (I.E. SUCH OPERATIONS ARE NOT AUTHORIZED WITHIN, BELOW, OR ABOVE CLASS B AIRSPACE): PART I. EXCEPT FOR THE OPERATIONS LISTED BELOW, PART 91 VFR OPERATION ARE PERMITTED WITHIN THE TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE OF THE U.S., FOR U.S. REGISTERED AIRCRAFT PROVIDED THAT THOSE OPERATIONS ARE CONDUCTED OUTSIDE "ENHANCED CLASS B AIRSPACE." THE FOLLOWING TYPES OF OPERATIONS ARE NOT AUTHORIZED: CIVIL AIRCRAFT VFR FLIGHT TRAINING OPERATIONS BANNER TOWING OPERATIONS SIGHT SEEING FLIGHT OPERATIONS CONDUCTED FOR COMPENSATION OR HIRE (UNDER PART 91, PURSUANT TO THE EXCEPTION IN 119.1(e)(2)) TRAFFIC WATCH FLIGHT OPERATIONS AIRSHIP/BLIMP OPERATIONS NEWS REPORTING OPERATIONS EXAMPLES OF AUTHORIZED OPERATIONS, OUTSIDE "ENHANCED CLASS B AIRSPACE" INCLUDE: AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE REPOSITIONING. BALLOONS. CIVIL AIR PATROL. GLIDERS. MANUFACTURER PRODUCTION FLIGHT TESTS. MAPPING/PHOTOGRAPHY MISSIONS. PIPELINE/POWERLINE INSPECTIONS. SEAPLANES. SKYDIVING. ULTRALIGHTS. WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT OPERATIONS. PART II. THE FOLLOWING PART 91 IFR OPERATIONS ARE AUTHORIZED WITHIN THE TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE OF THE U.S. FOREIGN REGISTERED AIRCRAFT DEPARTING THE U.S. WITH NO INTERMEDIATE STOPS WITHIN THE U.S. FOREIGN REGISTERED AIRCRAFT OVERFLYING THE U.S. WITH A GROSS TAKEOFF WEIGHT LESS THAN 95,000 POUNDS. PART III. AUTHORIZATIONS. ALL PART 91 IFR/VFR OPERATIONS ARE AUTHORIZED IN ALASKAN AIRSPACE. WITHIN "ENHANCED CLASS B AIRSPACE," ALL MEDIVAC, RESCUE/RECOVERY, FIRE FIGHTING, LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND EMERGENCY EVACUATION AIRCRAFT CAN CONDUCT IFR OR VFR OPERATIONS USING AN ATC-ASSIGNED DISCRETE BEACON CODE. COMMERCIAL SPACE OPERATIONS ARE AUTHORIZED AND MUST BE APPROVED IN PART IV. IF YOU ARE UNSURE OF YOUR AUTHORIZATION STATUS CONTACT LOCAL FAA FLIGHT SERVICE STATION AT 1-800-WXBRIEF. Steve DiNieri ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve dinieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: We Can FLY!!!
Date: Sep 20, 2001
Sorry, notam says vfr as of 8:20 9/20 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WCruiser1(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Subject: Re: required equipment for IFR in VMC in experimental aircraft
We recently had an RV8 inspected by the FAA for airworthiness, and as you correctly noted the fars are clear on certificated aircraft. As part of the airworthiness certificate were ive - six pages reversing all the experimental exceptions to the FAR's. Essentially this airworthiness certificate requires the experimental to meet the FAR's as far as equiipment, use, performance. Maintenance can still be done by the builder per the FAR's Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Thomas Mosher" <tmosher(at)gbronline.com>
Subject: Re: VFR Ban lifted???
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Read the first paragraph - note, when someone says "examples of.....include" it does not mean it is a difinitive list" - ATTENTION ALL OPERATORS - SPECIAL NOTICE EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. PURSUANT TO 14 CFR 91.139 (EMERGENCY AIR TRAFFIC RULES), PART 91 IFR AND VFR AIRCRAFT OPERATION ARE AUTHORIZED AS SPECIFIED IN NOTAMS 1/0111 AND 1/0112. [0111 and 0112 are identical--ed.] TO THE EXTENT THAT CONTRARY LANGUAGE EXISTS, THIS NOTAM SHALL SUPERCEDE. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 8:51 PM Subject: RV-List: VFR Ban lifted??? > > Excuss me but does anyone see Aircraft in this list below. > > Looks like I can bring my plane home if stuck out. > Test fly if still in that phase. > > But I don't see the 100 dollar hamburger or VFR "fun" flying listed. > > Tom Gummo > Apple Valley, CA > > copied from EAA site: > > B. EXAMPLES OF AUTHORIZED OPERATIONS, OUTSIDE "ENHANCED CLASS B > AIRSPACE" INCLUDE: > 1. AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE REPOSITIONING. > 2. BALLOONS. > 3. CIVIL AIR PATROL. > 4. GLIDERS. > 5. MANUFACTURER PRODUCTION FLIGHT TESTS. > 6. MAPPING/PHOTOGRAPHY MISSIONS. > 7. PIPELINE/POWERLINE INSPECTIONS. > 8. SEAPLANES. > 9. SKYDIVING. > 10. ULTRALIGHTS. > 11. WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT OPERATIONS. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2001
From: Garry LeGare <"versadek"@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: We Can FLY!!!
Ok you guys it's about time I fessed up. I'm the reason you can go flying tomorrow. I sacrificed myself by doing a reverse Murphy. This evening, I removed "Caspers" left aileron so I could install the trim servo in it. I new that as soon as I did this, Murphy would take over and he sure did. No thanks are necessary. Maybe just a cold one when we meet at the next Flyin. Garry, " Casper" No flying for me tomorrow, but it's worth to see those smiles on your face. steve dinieri wrote: > > Sorry, notam says vfr as of 8:20 9/20 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: VFR Flight Restrictions
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Only those airports under the "overhang" are included. For example, Lewis (LOT) (that'd be me by about 2 miles) ain't going nowhere. New Lennox 1C2, however, gets to fly all day long even thought they're just under the 30 mile circle. How's that -4 coming? Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com Plainfield, IL RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps Stinson 108-2 N9666K > > Does this include only the primary class b airspace or does in include airports > under the outer portion of the 30 mile (transponder required) veil? > > Larry & Karen Gooding wrote: > > > > > John, > > > > I know it won't make you feel much better, but a tanker truck carrying > > 10,000 gallons of fuel has plenty of restrictions on where and when it can > > operate. It absolutely may not be driven down most city streets under any > > circumstances, and if caught away from a permitted route is subject to > > large fines and even possible immediate arrest of the driver. This was the > > case long before the events of Sept 11th. > > > > "Big trucks" are burdened by regulations and usage fees that would stagger > > commercial aviation. They deliver just about 100% of everything we need > > for daily life, including the parts for this RV-6. > > > > Karen Gooding > > > > > > > >I can understand the "why" part of the restrictions, but have to wonder why > > >my little RV6A is such a potential threat that it cannot be allowed to fly, > > >while tanker trucks with 10,000 gallons of fuel can drive anywhere in any > > >city in the US without any restrictions. Go figure! > > > > > >John at Salida, CO > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Subject: Re: Filing IFR for yanking & banking
From: james freeman <flyeyes(at)bellsouth.net>
on 9/19/01 8:31 PM, Mike Nellis at mnellis(at)peoplepc.com wrote: (snip) > The other feature that can be used is the old VFR on Top clause. You can > always ask for VFR on Top and as long as it's VFR conditions and you tell > them what you want to do, the controllers will probably let you do pretty > much what you please. You're still on an IFR flight plan so as long as you > adhere to that you'll probably be ok. (snip) Unfortunately not. VFR on top is specifically forbidden under the current rules. James Freeman With keys to three VFR airplanes and a hangar trapped under a class B "shelf" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Thomas Mosher" <tmosher(at)gbronline.com>
Subject: Re: VFR Flight Restrictions
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Note: for the purposes of this notam, "enhanced class b airspace" is defined as that airspace within the extreme lateral limit of class b airpace from surface to infinity (i.e. such operations are not authorized within, below, or above class b airspace): The operative wording is "within the extreme lateral limit of class B airspace from surface to infinity" - which means Narg of Planet Z at 93 trillion miles above DFW would be damned if he was VFR. As I intepret it, yes. For example, KGKY (Arlington, TX) which is under DFW class B airspace is included. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Glaser" <airplane(at)megsinet.net> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 9:43 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: VFR Flight Restrictions > > Does this include only the primary class b airspace or does in include airports > under the outer portion of the 30 mile (transponder required) veil? > > Larry & Karen Gooding wrote: > > > > > John, > > > > I know it won't make you feel much better, but a tanker truck carrying > > 10,000 gallons of fuel has plenty of restrictions on where and when it can > > operate. It absolutely may not be driven down most city streets under any > > circumstances, and if caught away from a permitted route is subject to > > large fines and even possible immediate arrest of the driver. This was the > > case long before the events of Sept 11th. > > > > "Big trucks" are burdened by regulations and usage fees that would stagger > > commercial aviation. They deliver just about 100% of everything we need > > for daily life, including the parts for this RV-6. > > > > Karen Gooding > > > > > > > >I can understand the "why" part of the restrictions, but have to wonder why > > >my little RV6A is such a potential threat that it cannot be allowed to fly, > > >while tanker trucks with 10,000 gallons of fuel can drive anywhere in any > > >city in the US without any restrictions. Go figure! > > > > > >John at Salida, CO > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Coonan" <gcoonan(at)home.com>
Subject: We Can FLY!!!
Date: Sep 19, 2001
A sincere vankyou. For your sacrifice. Gary Coonan Rockvale, TN RV-7 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry LeGare Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 10:33 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: We Can FLY!!! Ok you guys it's about time I fessed up. I'm the reason you can go flying tomorrow. I sacrificed myself by doing a reverse Murphy. This evening, I removed "Caspers" left aileron so I could install the trim servo in it. I new that as soon as I did this, Murphy would take over and he sure did. No thanks are necessary. Maybe just a cold one when we meet at the next Flyin. Garry, " Casper" No flying for me tomorrow, but it's worth to see those smiles on your face. steve dinieri wrote: > > Sorry, notam says vfr as of 8:20 9/20 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2001
From: Mimi Steel <msteel(at)home.com>
Subject: IO-360B1B Help Request
I am looking for some help. I have an RV 6 with a IO 360 B1B. I am having >serious problems with my fuel servo and I need to find someone who has a >B1B that is working properly and can tell me the part number of the fuel servo that matches that engine. >Thanks in advance, >Mimi Please respond directly to msteel(at)home.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Aileron Trim Finally Completed
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Well, I finally finished my modified version of Vans electric Aileron trim on my -6. While the finished product turned out pretty nice, I don't know that I'd do it that way again. I haven't seen the plans for the electric aileron trim on the -7 but I've got a suspicion that it's going to be similar to the -8 and use the servo to manipulate the bias spring system. While I have a fundamental (in theory) aversion to this way of trimming the control surfaces, it would certainly be an easier way of doing things. You can see the finished installation here. http://www.bmnellis.com/wings_ailerons_trim.htm Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com Plainfield, IL RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps Stinson 108-2 N9666K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Filing IFR for yanking & banking
Date: Sep 19, 2001
Right you are Jim. I guess I didn't read the restrictions carefully and just assumed that since VFR-ON-TOP was still and IFR clearance it'd be ok. Thanks for the correction. See, it pays to read those restrictions carefully. Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com Plainfield, IL RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps Stinson 108-2 N9666K > > Unfortunately not. VFR on top is specifically forbidden under the current > rules. > > James Freeman > > With keys to three VFR airplanes and a hangar trapped under a class B > "shelf" > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: IFR certification for homebuilts
Date: Sep 19, 2001
> The list discussion regarding IFR certification for > homebuilts was the first that I had ever considered or > heard that there might be different standards for > homebuilts and certified standard category aircraft. > Aside from the pilot being IFR rated and current, > what is involved in getting approval to operate our > RV-s and other homebuilts as IFR aircraft? Other than the prohibition of IFR or Night flying during the test period, there are no different standards for homebuilts. Some inspectors write more restrictive language into the operating limitations if the plane isn't equipped for IFR/Night at inspection time, but most operating limitations just say "VFR/Day only unless equipped for IFR/Night per the FARs..." Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~280 hrs) Portland, OR www.vanshomewing.org ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Chesteen" <bchesteen(at)planetc.com>
Subject: RV Fall Classic at Lebanon Tn.
Date: Sep 20, 2001
Is the RV Fall Classic at Lebanon Tn. this Sat the 22nd still a go if we can fly? Brian Chesteen RV-7A Emp (Almost Done) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 20, 2001
Subject: Re: IO-360B1B Help Request
Mimi, The good news is that I have an IO-360B1B in my RV-4 that up until Sept 11 has run great. The bad news is that the plane is being held hostage outside at the Oakland, CA airport. If and when I ever see the plane again I will get the part numbers for you. Bart at Aerosport power built mine and should be able to help you. Rob Hickman (RV-4 Under SFO Class B) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Im7shannon(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 20, 2001
Subject: Re: KT 78 transponder
Hey guys, does anybody have a wiring connection diagram for a KT 78 you could fax me?? Sorry this post is about building RV's and does not reflect my opinions about current events. Kevin in WA -9A was flying, then not flying, now might fly again ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: KT 78 transponder
Date: Sep 20, 2001
I believe it is the same as the KT 76 ----- Original Message ----- From: <Im7shannon(at)aol.com> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 10:35 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: KT 78 transponder Hey guys, does anybody have a wiring connection diagram for a KT 78 you could fax me?? Sorry this post is about building RV's and does not reflect my opinions about current events. Kevin in WA -9A was flying, then not flying, now might fly again ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: aileron trim
Date: Sep 20, 2001
Thread-Topic: RV-List Digest: 93 Msgs - 09/19/01 Thread-Index: AcFBtaidxZ0mxuF9TMyn+B9dJdo+PwASjI5w
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
I have the aileron manual bias system in my -6 that is mated to a MAC trim servo...works flawlessly. I have never come close to running out of trim authority, even solo when running the right tank dry to fix the fuel level sender. The trim servo is mounted on web of a belly rib, the shaft is connected to the arm of the manual trim lever rotated 90 deg., shortened, and mounted about 2" below the seat pans. Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 210 hours working on weapons guidance system > ______________________________________________________________ > __________________ > From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> > Subject: RV-List: Aileron Trim Finally Completed > > > Well, I finally finished my modified version of Vans electric Aileron > trim on my -6. While the finished product turned out pretty nice, I > don't know that I'd do it that way again. I haven't seen the > plans for > the electric aileron trim on the -7 but I've got a suspicion that it's > going to be similar to the -8 and use the servo to manipulate the bias > spring system. While I have a fundamental (in theory) > aversion to this > way of trimming the control surfaces, it would certainly be an easier > way of doing things. You can see the finished installation here. > http://www.bmnellis.com/wings_ailerons_trim.htm > > Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com > Plainfield, IL > RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps > Stinson 108-2 N9666K > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JusCash(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 20, 2001
Subject: Re: We Can FLY!!! Not all of us
Hey Rob, Just talked to ATC. If you file IFR once you clear the class B you can cancel. I live in Oakland, if I can be of any help getting you out let me know my phone number is 510-414-0620. By the way Livermore or San Jose are closer. Cash Copeland In a message dated 9/20/2001 7:06:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time, svanarts(at)unionsafe.com writes: > > > > Rent a flatbed truck and stick a wide load sign on the back. Then leave the > wings on and truck her out to Tracy. > > -- > Scott (at least your plane flies) VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA > Network Administrator > Union Safe Deposit Bank > 209-946-5116 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: RobHickman(at)aol.com [mailto:RobHickman(at)aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 6:51 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: We Can FLY!!! Not all of us > > > > All airspace under the outer limits of class B is still grounded. > > Therefore my RV is still in Oakland, I did have FSS suggest I take the > wings > off and move it out from under the class B. > > Rob Hickman > N401RH Stuck Under Class B "New Enhanced Class B" > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Aero7ac(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 20, 2001
Subject: (no subject)
Fellow RV enthusiasts, I got my airworthiness certificate for my RV-6 on 9/9/01. Happy day!! I was to get my checkout from Mike Seager the following Friday at the chapter 486 RV forum in Fulton County NY. Needless to say, the tragic events of 9/11 foiled those plans. So here I sit with a plane that took me 6 years to complete and no way to fly it. why, you ask? Because the insurance company requires me to have at least 1 hour with a certified flight instructor in (any) Van's aircraft. I live in Vermont. Does anyone know of anybody on the East coast (preferably North east) that could help me out? If so please reply to this list, nowakod(at)us.ibm.com, or call me at 802-899-5163 or 802 288-3359 and let me know. It is hard to believe that the most dicourgaging part of this project is after it is done!( obviously poor planning on my part). Thanks in advance for any info you may have. This, like every other obstacle, will be overcome. Don Nowakowski RV-6, 0-320 Sensenich fixed pitch propeller, sliding canopy N513DN Complete!! but unable to go : - ( ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Date: Sep 20, 2001
Call 1-888-EAA-INFO (1-888-322-4636) and ask for their list of planes and CFIs. The EAA may just have one already OR if you have a friend with a plane and a CFI he trusts, then Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: <Aero7ac(at)aol.com> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 2:48 PM Subject: RV-List: (no subject) Fellow RV enthusiasts, I got my airworthiness certificate for my RV-6 on 9/9/01. Happy day!! I was to get my checkout from Mike Seager the following Friday at the chapter 486 RV forum in Fulton County NY. Needless to say, the tragic events of 9/11 foiled those plans. So here I sit with a plane that took me 6 years to complete and no way to fly it. why, you ask? Because the insurance company requires me to have at least 1 hour with a certified flight instructor in (any) Van's aircraft. I live in Vermont. Does anyone know of anybody on the East coast (preferably North east) that could help me out? If so please reply to this list, nowakod(at)us.ibm.com, or call me at 802-899-5163 or 802 288-3359 and let me know. It is hard to believe that the most dicourgaging part of this project is after it is done!( obviously poor planning on my part). Thanks in advance for any info you may have. This, like every other obstacle, will be overcome. Don Nowakowski RV-6, 0-320 Sensenich fixed pitch propeller, sliding canopy N513DN Complete!! but unable to go : - ( ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: We Can FLY!!! Not all of us
Date: Sep 20, 2001
Very true. I was looking at the Mode C veil and not the Class B wedding cake. I stand corrected. -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA Network Administrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 -----Original Message----- From: JusCash(at)aol.com [mailto:JusCash(at)aol.com] Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 11:51 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: We Can FLY!!! Not all of us Hey Rob, Just talked to ATC. If you file IFR once you clear the class B you can cancel. I live in Oakland, if I can be of any help getting you out let me know my phone number is 510-414-0620. By the way Livermore or San Jose are closer. Cash Copeland In a message dated 9/20/2001 7:06:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time, svanarts(at)unionsafe.com writes: > > > Rent a flatbed truck and stick a wide load sign on the back. Then leave the > wings on and truck her out to Tracy. > > -- > Scott (at least your plane flies) VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA > Network Administrator > Union Safe Deposit Bank > 209-946-5116 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: RobHickman(at)aol.com [mailto:RobHickman(at)aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 6:51 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: We Can FLY!!! Not all of us > > > > All airspace under the outer limits of class B is still grounded. > > Therefore my RV is still in Oakland, I did have FSS suggest I take the > wings > off and move it out from under the class B. > > Rob Hickman > N401RH Stuck Under Class B "New Enhanced Class B" > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: aileron trim
Date: Sep 20, 2001
The type of system that you describe is exactly what I was talking about and I think it's the same type that is used on the -8 and probably the other models. The reason I chose not to go with the bias spring was because I wanted to avoid the "breakout force" and imbalance that a bias spring system "theoretically" imposes. I realize that it's probably insignificant but it's there none-the-less. As I said, in the future I'd probably go with that type of system just because it would be so much easier to build and install. Mike > > I have the aileron manual bias system in my -6 that is mated to a MAC > trim servo...works flawlessly. I have never come close to running out > of trim authority, even solo when running the right tank dry to fix the > fuel level sender. The trim servo is mounted on web of a belly rib, the > shaft is connected to the arm of the manual trim lever rotated 90 deg., > shortened, and mounted about 2" below the seat pans. > > Bob Japundza > RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 210 hours > working on weapons guidance system > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > __________________ > > From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> > > Subject: RV-List: Aileron Trim Finally Completed > > > > > > Well, I finally finished my modified version of Vans electric Aileron > > trim on my -6. While the finished product turned out pretty nice, I > > don't know that I'd do it that way again. I haven't seen the > > plans for > > the electric aileron trim on the -7 but I've got a suspicion that it's > > going to be similar to the -8 and use the servo to manipulate the bias > > spring system. While I have a fundamental (in theory) > > aversion to this > > way of trimming the control surfaces, it would certainly be an easier > > way of doing things. You can see the finished installation here. > > http://www.bmnellis.com/wings_ailerons_trim.htm > > > > Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com > > Plainfield, IL > > RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps > > Stinson 108-2 N9666K > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Date: Sep 20, 2001
Sorry, something got erased. Call 1-888-EAA-INFO (1-888-322-4636) and ask for their list of planes and CFIs. The EAA may just have one already OR if you have a friend with a plane and a CFI he trusts, then make application for your friend's plane. It is free, one of the benefits of EAA membership. Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: <Aero7ac(at)aol.com> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 2:48 PM Subject: RV-List: (no subject) Fellow RV enthusiasts, I got my airworthiness certificate for my RV-6 on 9/9/01. Happy day!! I was to get my checkout from Mike Seager the following Friday at the chapter 486 RV forum in Fulton County NY. Needless to say, the tragic events of 9/11 foiled those plans. So here I sit with a plane that took me 6 years to complete and no way to fly it. why, you ask? Because the insurance company requires me to have at least 1 hour with a certified flight instructor in (any) Van's aircraft. I live in Vermont. Does anyone know of anybody on the East coast (preferably North east) that could help me out? If so please reply to this list, nowakod(at)us.ibm.com, or call me at 802-899-5163 or 802 288-3359 and let me know. It is hard to believe that the most dicourgaging part of this project is after it is done!( obviously poor planning on my part). Thanks in advance for any info you may have. This, like every other obstacle, will be overcome. Don Nowakowski RV-6, 0-320 Sensenich fixed pitch propeller, sliding canopy N513DN Complete!! but unable to go : - ( ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: SoCAL flight Orders
Date: Sep 20, 2001
> SOCAL Approach was contacted for VFR flight following to Apple Valley for breakfast. > General Gummy Bear was not on the airport with his F-HRII so Birdstrike > ate alone. Gary, While I agree with most of comments, I would like to stay a Major. :-) I was always in trouble with the higher brass. I did get to the airport in time to see Fred and Glen(?) land and had lunch with them. It was sure good to see RVs airborne. Their formation departure looked great. Fred looked like he was welded to lead. Tom - "GummiBear" Major, USAF (Retired) exF-4G Wild Weasel Instructor Pilot ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ferdfly(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 20, 2001
Subject: Re: SoCAL flight Orders
In a message dated 9/20/2001 4:09:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rv6flier(at)yahoo.com writes: > > Komadant Birdstrike > Southern California Wing Van's Air Force > Cable (CCB) detachment > > Hope you enjoyed this. > My asbestos suit is on. Flame away. > > > ==== > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" F/A-RV6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, > 944.5 Flying Hours So. CA, USA > http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com > > > Gary...............What a load! Fred (Flintstone) LaForge RV-4 0-360 CS EAA Tech counselor ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2001
From: John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV Fall Classic at Lebanon Tn.
Yes John Brian Chesteen wrote: > > >Is the RV Fall Classic at Lebanon Tn. this Sat the 22nd still a go if we can >fly? > > >Brian Chesteen >RV-7A Emp (Almost Done) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2001
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: Avionics Shop In The Northeast ?
Scott, remember that a "pitot/static" test is not required unless you are going to fly IFR. 91.411 which requires that the encoder be checked applies only to IFR and 91.413 says only that the transponder must be tested every 2 years but it does not have to be done in the airplane, it can be tested on the bench. So, for VFR, the transponder has to be checked every 2 years and the encoder/static system never, after the initial installation (or perhaps maintenance) Dave -6 not flying (anymore) SoCal Scott Gesele wrote: > > Listers, > > Can anyone recommend an avionics shop in the Northeast US? I have a King > KX-125 whose nav side just went dead and I'm due for a pitot static test. > Two years ago I was charged $400 for that pitot static test at Islip > Avionics. That price appears to be quite high. I'm located on Long Island, > so any shop within 200 nm would be an easy trip. > > Any feedback or info would be greatly appreciated. > > Scott Gesele > N506RV 450+ hr and looking forward to getting back into the air > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: generous RVer
Date: Sep 21, 2001
It seems this gentleman is selling his RV with ALL proceeds going to help victims of the WTC bombing. Check out: http://www.e-mds.com/sept11fund/aircraft.html Don Mei RV-4 3B9 - Chester, CT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 21, 2001
Subject: Re: Was RV 10, Now SMA Diesels
In a message dated 9/20/01 9:13:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, nhunger(at)sprint.ca writes: << I was very keen to have an SMA engine power my 6A but have lately been discouraged. I have been emailing SMA several times in the last six months asking to buy one of their new diesels but no joy. Notice them being a little quiet lately? There is a rumor mill of course and it's heat and vibration that is said to be holding things up. It sure would be better if they would keep their webpage updated with their problems and triumphs so we'd know. It appears to be almost a year behind. Are there any European Listers that might know more? Are they selling these in Europe yet? As for the installation package, they are supposed to have the same dimensions and prop placement as Lycoming. It should be a straight forward installation. Prop will turn slower so it will be quieter. We would be able to use available cowls. I thought there was a 182 some where in the states flying around with one of these. Who knows anything about it? Someone must have seen it. How much cooling air does it need? I heard the cowl gets butchered to let in more air and vent more heat. Perhaps it would help if SMA got email from everyone who is interested in their engines. >> Also there is some indication that the power pulses of the direct drive diesel engines are very hard on existing props. This is per a report in LPM. -GV (RV-6A N1GV) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Coonan" <gcoonan(at)home.com>
Subject: RV Fall Classic at Lebanon Tn.
Date: Sep 20, 2001
I'm down in M'boro, what time is the fly-in, my -7 in not complete but I thought I would fly-in a borrowed plane. Any chance I could get ride in a -6 from someone. I have never ridden in an RV and would love the chance to obtain an RV grin. Gary Coonan Rockvale, TN RV-7 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John McMahon Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 9:43 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Fall Classic at Lebanon Tn. Yes John Brian Chesteen wrote: > > >Is the RV Fall Classic at Lebanon Tn. this Sat the 22nd still a go if we can >fly? > > >Brian Chesteen >RV-7A Emp (Almost Done) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2001
From: Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Safety wire - when to use
Someone please explain the mysteries of safety wire to me ... 1) I'm confused as to the rhyme and reason behind which bolts get safetied and which ones don't. I can't really detect a pattern. For instance, Van's says to safety the 6 allen head bolts on the back of the governor - fine, but why then didn't lycoming safety the nuts that hold the magnetos on? Lycoming safetied the screws on top of my flow divider, but not the screw on the top of the engine-driven fuel pump. Why is this? Or should they all be safetied? 2) Seems like .032 is the standard safety wire size. What hole should I drill for this size wire? 3) Any tips on drilling allen head bolts? If I find the guy at McCaulley who spec'd undrilled bolts... Matthew 8A Finishing, N48PP reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Costello" <wmcenterprises(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Fw: Flight Announcement
Date: Sep 21, 2001
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryant_Steve" <Bryant_Steve(at)xmail.asd.k12.ak.us> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 12:30 PM Subject: SWPC: Flight Announcement > As we try to resume a normal life style, this story > may help and reassure. > ----- > Aboard Flight 564 > by Peter Hannaford > > As it was at most U.S. airports, last Saturday was > the first near-normal day at Denver International since the terrorist > attacks. > > On United's Flight 564 > > the door had just been locked and the plane was > about to pull out of the gate when the captain came on the public address > system. > > "I want to thank you brave folks for coming out > today. We don't have any new instructions from the federal government, so > from now on we're on our own." > > The passengers listened in total silence. > > He explained that airport security measures had > pretty much solved the problem of firearms being carried > aboard, but not weapons of the type the terrorists apparently used, plastic > knives or those fashioned from wood or ceramics. > > "Sometimes a potential hijacker will announce that > he has a bomb. There are no bombs on this aircraft and if someone were to > get up and make that claim, don't believe him. > > "If someone were to stand up,brandish something such > as a plastic knife and say 'This is a hijacking' or words to that effect > here is what you should do: > Every one of you should stand up and immediately > throw things at that person? pillows, books, magazines, eyeglasses, shoes > ?anything that will throw him off balance and distract his attention. If he > has a confederate or two, do the same with them. > Most important: get a blanket over him, then wrestle > him to floor and keep him there. We'll land the plane at > the nearest airport and the authorities will take it from there." > > "Remember, there will be one of him and maybe a few > confederates, but there are 200 of you. You can overwhelm them. > > "The Declaration of Independence says 'We, the > people' and that's just what it is when we're up in the air: we, the people, > vs. would-be terrorists. I don't think we are going to have any such problem > today or tomorrow or for a while, but some time down the road, it is going > to happen again and I want you to know what to do. > > "Now, since we're a family for the next few hours, > I'll ask you to turn to the person next to you, introduce yourself, tell > them a little about yourself and ask them to do the same." > > The end of this remarkable speech brought sustained > clapping from the passengers. He had put the matter in perspective. If > only the passengers on those ill-fated flights last Tuesday had been given > the same talk, I thought, they might be alive today. One group on United > Flight 93, which crashed in a Pennsylvania field, apparently rushed the > hijackers in an attempt to wrest control from them. While they perished, > they succeeded in preventing the terrorist from attacking his intended goal, > possibly the White House or the Capitol. > > Procedures for dealing with hijackers were conceived > in a time when the hijackers were usually seeking the release of jailed > comrades or a large amount of money. Mass murder was not their goal. > That short talk last Saturday by the pilot of Flight 564 should set a new > standard of realism. > > Every passenger should learn the simple ? but potentially life-saving ? > procedure he outlined. He showed his passengers that > a hijacking does not have to result in hopelessness and terror, but > victory over the perpetrators. > > The Airline Pilots Association, the pilots' union, > last week dropped its opposition to stronger cockpit doors and is now > calling for retrofits. > (It's opposition was based on pilot concerns about getting > out easily in emergency situations.) The scandal of easily penetrated > airport security will result incongressional calls for a federal takeover of > the security system. > > Previous efforts to reform security procedures and > raise standards have been talked to death. This time, however, no lobbying > efforts must be allowed to prevent airport security from getting the reforms > that are needed: federal operation, rigorous training, decent pay and no > foreign nationals eligible for employment. > > Peter Hannaford is a public affairs consultant Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - > How can you help? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com>
Subject: Was RV 10, Now SMA Diesels
Date: Sep 21, 2001
I saw their 182 at OSH this year, and to say the cowl was butchered is an understatement (IMO). I think there is a picture of it on their web site, and from talking to the rep there are two concerns they have before releasing the engine for homebuilt use: 1) Heat (hence the huge scoop on the 182) and 2) height. The installed package is very tall from top to bottom; so much so that the rep told me that that is their highest priority at this time as it won't fit in any twins or current homebuilts without major modification to the cowlings. Their goal is same size/etc. as a Lycoming, but I don't think they are quite there yet... Cheers, Brad RV6AQ... -----Original Message----- From: Vanremog(at)aol.com [mailto:Vanremog(at)aol.com] Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 11:20 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Was RV 10, Now SMA Diesels In a message dated 9/20/01 9:13:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, nhunger(at)sprint.ca writes: << I was very keen to have an SMA engine power my 6A but have lately been discouraged. I have been emailing SMA several times in the last six months asking to buy one of their new diesels but no joy. Notice them being a little quiet lately? There is a rumor mill of course and it's heat and vibration that is said to be holding things up. It sure would be better if they would keep their webpage updated with their problems and triumphs so we'd know. It appears to be almost a year behind. Are there any European Listers that might know more? Are they selling these in Europe yet? As for the installation package, they are supposed to have the same dimensions and prop placement as Lycoming. It should be a straight forward installation. Prop will turn slower so it will be quieter. We would be able to use available cowls. I thought there was a 182 some where in the states flying around with one of these. Who knows anything about it? Someone must have seen it. How much cooling air does it need? I heard the cowl gets butchered to let in more air and vent more heat. Perhaps it would help if SMA got email from everyone who is interested in their engines. >> Also there is some indication that the power pulses of the direct drive diesel engines are very hard on existing props. This is per a report in LPM. -GV (RV-6A N1GV) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Newton" <enewton57(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Waiting for Inspection
Date: Sep 21, 2001
Since its fairly slow on the list (you are all probably flying), I thought I would solicit everyone's opinion. I sent the local FSDO my paperwork and application for airworthiness certificate about three weeks ago and haven't heard a word from them. Local builders tell me they usually get a call within a week from our local FSDO. I know with all of the events that have happened since 9/11 they are probably very busy right now. So here are my thoughts: 1. Leave them alone, they will eventually call. 2. Call just be sure they actually received the application and it didn't get lost in the mail. 3. Call and ask how long the delay will be. 4. Call a DAR and schedule an inspection. With option number 1, I worry that maybe in all of the confusion it got lost. Here I am waiting and they never got it to begin with. With numbers 2 & 3, I'm afraid they will get angry and make my life miserable if and when they get around to inspecting. With number 4, Murphy's law says the minute I write the check to the DAR, the Feds will call and schedule an appointment. So what is the consensus? Any opinions? Thanks, Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS (no class B airspace here) RV-6A (waiting for the FAA inspection) www.ericsrv6a.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com>
Subject: Waiting for Inspection
Date: Sep 21, 2001
I would call them to confirm that they received it and see if they volunteer any helpful information. Greg -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Eric Newton Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 7:42 AM Subject: RV-List: Waiting for Inspection Since its fairly slow on the list (you are all probably flying), I thought I would solicit everyone's opinion. I sent the local FSDO my paperwork and application for airworthiness certificate about three weeks ago and haven't heard a word from them. Local builders tell me they usually get a call within a week from our local FSDO. I know with all of the events that have happened since 9/11 they are probably very busy right now. So here are my thoughts: 1. Leave them alone, they will eventually call. 2. Call just be sure they actually received the application and it didn't get lost in the mail. 3. Call and ask how long the delay will be. 4. Call a DAR and schedule an inspection. With option number 1, I worry that maybe in all of the confusion it got lost. Here I am waiting and they never got it to begin with. With numbers 2 & 3, I'm afraid they will get angry and make my life miserable if and when they get around to inspecting. With number 4, Murphy's law says the minute I write the check to the DAR, the Feds will call and schedule an appointment. So what is the consensus? Any opinions? Thanks, Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS (no class B airspace here) RV-6A (waiting for the FAA inspection) www.ericsrv6a.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Was RV 10, Now SMA Diesels
Date: Sep 21, 2001
Check out pages 17 (SMA Advertisement) and page 52 of the latest issue of AOPA Pilot. Page 52 discusses (briefly) the TAE and SMA diesels. They've got a picture of the Cessna 182 that was at OSH and the look could best be described as a a cross between an airplane and a Whale Shark. With that big opening, if they can't keep the engine cool then they've got some serious problems. :) Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com Plainfield, IL RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps Stinson 108-2 N9666K ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 9:16 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Was RV 10, Now SMA Diesels > > > I saw their 182 at OSH this year, and to say the cowl was butchered is an > understatement (IMO). I think there is a picture of it on their web site, > and from talking to the rep there are two concerns they have before > releasing the engine for homebuilt use: 1) Heat (hence the huge scoop on > the 182) and 2) height. The installed package is very tall from top to > bottom; so much so that the rep told me that that is their highest priority > at this time as it won't fit in any twins or current homebuilts without > major modification to the cowlings. Their goal is same size/etc. as a > Lycoming, but I don't think they are quite there yet... > > Cheers, > Brad > RV6AQ... > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vanremog(at)aol.com [mailto:Vanremog(at)aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 11:20 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Was RV 10, Now SMA Diesels > > > In a message dated 9/20/01 9:13:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > nhunger(at)sprint.ca writes: > > << I was very keen to have an SMA engine power my 6A but have lately been > discouraged. I have been emailing SMA several times in the last six months > asking to buy one of their new diesels but no joy. Notice them being a > little quiet lately? There is a rumor mill of course and it's heat and > vibration that is said to be holding things up. It sure would be better if > they would keep their webpage updated with their problems and triumphs so > we'd know. It appears to be almost a year behind. Are there any European > Listers that might know more? Are they selling these in Europe yet? > > As for the installation package, they are supposed to have the same > dimensions and prop placement as Lycoming. It should be a straight forward > installation. Prop will turn slower so it will be quieter. We would be able > to use available cowls. > > I thought there was a 182 some where in the states flying around with one > of > these. Who knows anything about it? Someone must have seen it. How much > cooling air does it need? I heard the cowl gets butchered to let in more > air > and vent more heat. > > Perhaps it would help if SMA got email from everyone who is interested in > their engines. >> > > Also there is some indication that the power pulses of the direct drive > diesel engines are very hard on existing props. This is per a report in > LPM. > > -GV (RV-6A N1GV) > vanremog(at)aol.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Aileron Gap Seal Installation
Date: Sep 21, 2001
Can anyone out there tell me if they used the AN3-3 rivets to install the aileron gap seal to the top wing skin on a -6? If so, How did you install those rivets? The plans call out for 3-3 rivets but I can't for the live of me see how to install those rivets without removing the top skin. Since my top skin is already installed and riveted on, that option is out of the question. Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com Plainfield, IL RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps Stinson 108-2 N9666K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com>
Subject: Waiting for Inspection
Date: Sep 21, 2001
I would call: A You do have legitimate business with that office. B Under the circumstances the procedures might have changed and you will never know unless you ask. C The President did tell us that we should get back to business as normal as possible. Be extremely polite, and be prepared to be understanding and not to take offense if they are not. > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Newton [mailto:enewton57(at)cableone.net] > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 9:42 AM > To: RV-List > Subject: RV-List: Waiting for Inspection > > > > Since its fairly slow on the list (you are all probably flying), I > thought I would solicit everyone's opinion. I sent the local FSDO my > paperwork and application for airworthiness certificate about three > weeks ago and haven't heard a word from them. Local builders tell me > they usually get a call within a week from our local FSDO. I > know with > all of the events that have happened since 9/11 they are probably very > busy right now. So here are my thoughts: > > 1. Leave them alone, they will eventually call. > 2. Call just be sure they actually received the application and it > didn't get lost in the mail. > 3. Call and ask how long the delay will be. > 4. Call a DAR and schedule an inspection. > > With option number 1, I worry that maybe in all of the > confusion it got > lost. Here I am waiting and they never got it to begin with. > With numbers 2 & 3, I'm afraid they will get angry and make my life > miserable if and when they get around to inspecting. > With number 4, Murphy's law says the minute I write the check to the > DAR, the Feds will call and schedule an appointment. > > So what is the consensus? Any opinions? > > Thanks, > > Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS (no class B airspace here) > RV-6A (waiting for the FAA inspection) > www.ericsrv6a.com > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2001
Subject: Re: Waiting for Inspection
From: Denis Walsh <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net>
on 9/21/01 09:50, Don Hyde at DonH(at)axonn.com wrote: > > I would call: > > A You do have legitimate business with that office. > B Under the circumstances the procedures might have changed and you > will never know > unless you ask. > C The President did tell us that we should get back to business as > normal as possible. > > Be extremely polite, and be prepared to be understanding and not to take > offense if they are not. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Eric Newton [mailto:enewton57(at)cableone.net] >> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 9:42 AM >> To: RV-List >> Subject: RV-List: Waiting for Inspection >> >> >> >> Since its fairly slow on the list (you are all probably flying), I >> thought I would solicit everyone's opinion. I sent the local FSDO my >> paperwork and application for airworthiness certificate about three >> weeks ago and haven't heard a word from them. Local builders tell me >> they usually get a call within a week from our local FSDO. I >> know with >> all of the events that have happened since 9/11 they are probably very >> busy right now. So here are my thoughts: >> >> 1. Leave them alone, they will eventually call. >> 2. Call just be sure they actually received the application and it >> didn't get lost in the mail. >> 3. Call and ask how long the delay will be. >> 4. Call a DAR and schedule an inspection. >> >> With option number 1, I worry that maybe in all of the >> confusion it got >> lost. Here I am waiting and they never got it to begin with. >> With numbers 2 & 3, I'm afraid they will get angry and make my life >> miserable if and when they get around to inspecting. >> With number 4, Murphy's law says the minute I write the check to the >> DAR, the Feds will call and schedule an appointment. >> >> So what is the consensus? Any opinions? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS (no class B airspace here) >> RV-6A (waiting for the FAA inspection) >> www.ericsrv6a.com The chance that you will get to talk to a human if you call is nil. Just leave a message on the voicemail . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Costello" <wmcenterprises(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: PLEASE read
Date: Sep 21, 2001
Hello, I know there have been many, many emails about current happenings. But I think this one puts the challenge to each of us to decide where we stand -- now, and over the long haul. The message below is long -- 3 full pages I have saved in a Word document. It is also not easy reading, but needs to be thought through. I urge you to do so. Bill Costello This truly defines a "must read": Hello Everyone, As many of you know my son is a Cadet at the United States Air Force Academy. I received this today and I believe that it needs to be read and understood by every American. ************************************************************ This was written by my academic advisor at the Academy. He was not only one of the most brilliant men I've ever met, but also an individual who combined that brilliance with common sense to lead others. His words are the ones that haven't been heard yet but I believe will come to be true before we have the chance to recover from this initial tragedy. From: Dr. Tony Kern, Lt Col, USAF (Ret) Recently, I was asked to look at the recent events through the lens of military history. I have joined the cast of thousands who have written an "open letter to Americans." Dear friends and fellow Americans 14 September, 2001 Like everyone else in this great country, I am reeling from last week's attack on our sovereignty. But unlike some, I am not reeling from surprise. As a career soldier and a student and teacher of military history, I have a different perspective and I think you should hear it. This war will be won or lost by the American citizens, not diplomats, politicians or soldiers. Let me briefly explain. In spite of what the media, and even our own government is telling us, this act was not committed by a group of mentally deranged fanatics. To dismiss them as such would be among the gravest of mistakes. This attack was committed by a ferocious, intelligent and dedicated adversary. Don't take this the wrong way. I don't admire these men and I deplore their tactics, but I respect their capabilities. The many parallels that have been made with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor are apropos. Not only because it was a brilliant sneak attack against a complacent America, but also because we may well be pulling our new adversaries out of caves 30 years after we think this war is over, just like my father's generation had to do with the formidable Japanese in the years following WW II. These men hate the United States with all of their being, and we must not underestimate the power of their moral commitment. Napoleon, perhaps the world's greatest combination of soldier and statesman, stated "the moral is to the physical as three is to one." Patton thought the Frenchman underestimated its importance and said moral conviction was five times more important in battle than physical strength. Our enemies are willing - better said anxious-to give their lives for their cause. How committed are we America? And for how long? In addition to demonstrating great moral conviction, the recent attack demonstrated a mastery of some of the basic fundamentals of warfare taught to most military officers worldwide, namely simplicity, security and surprise. When I first heard rumors that some of these men may have been trained at our own Air War College, it made perfect sense to me. This was not a random act of violence, and we can expect the same sort of military competence to be displayed in the battle to come. This war will escalate, with a good portion of it happening right here in the good ol' U.S. of A. These men will not go easily into the night. They do not fear us. We must not fear them. In spite of our overwhelming conventional strength as the world's only "superpower" (a truly silly term), we are the underdog in this fight. As you listen to the carefully scripted rhetoric designed to prepare us for the march for war, please realize that America is not equipped or seriously trained for the battle ahead. To be certain, our soldiers are much better than the enemy, and we have some excellent "counter-terrorist" organizations, but they are mostly trained for hostage rescues, airfield seizures, or the occasional "body snatch," (which may come in handy). We will be fighting a war of annihilation, because if their early efforts are any indication, our enemy is ready and willing to die to the last man. Eradicating the enemy will be costly and time consuming. They have already deployed their forces in as many as 20 countries, and are likely living the lives of everyday citizens. Simply put, our soldiers will be tasked with a search and destroy mission on multiple foreign landscapes, and the public must be patient and supportive until the strategy and tactics can be worked out. For the most part, our military is still in the process of redefining itself and presided over by men and women who grew up with - and were promoted because they excelled in - Cold War doctrine, strategy and tactics. This will not be linear warfare, there will be no clear "centers of gravity" to strike with high technology weapons. Our vast technological edge will certainly be helpful, but it will not be decisive. Perhaps the perfect metaphor for the coming battle was introduced by the terrorists themselves aboard the hijacked aircraft-this will be a knife fight, and it will be won or lost by the ingenuity and will of citizens and soldiers, not by software or smart bombs. We must also be patient with our military leaders. Unlike Americans who are eager to put this messy time behind us, our adversaries have time on their side, and they will use it. They plan to fight a battle of attrition, hoping to drag the battle out until the American public loses its will to fight. This might be difficult to believe in this euphoric time of flag waving and patriotism, but it is generally acknowledged that America lacks the stomach for a long fight. We need only look as far back as Vietnam, when North Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap (also a military history teacher) defeated the United States of America without ever winning a major tactical battle. American soldiers who marched to war cheered on by flag waving Americans in 1965 were reviled and spat upon less than three years later when they returned. Although we hope that Usama Bin Laden is no Giap, he is certain to understand and employ the concept. We can expect not only large doses of pain like the recent attacks, but! also less audacious "sand in the gears" tactics, ranging from livestock infestations to attacks at water supplies and power distribution facilities. These attacks are designed to hit us in our "comfort zone" forcing the average American to "pay more and play less" and eventually eroding our resolve. But it can only work if we let it. It is clear to me that the will of the American citizenry - you and I - is the center of gravity the enemy has targeted. It will be the fulcrum upon which victory or defeat will turn. He believes us to be soft, impatient, and self-centered. He may be right, but if so, we must change. The Prussian general Carl von Clausewitz, (the most often quoted and least read military theorist in history), says that there is a "remarkable trinity of war" that is composed of (1) the will of the people, (2) the political leadership of the government, and (3) the chance and probability that plays out on the field of battle, in that order. Every American citizen was in the crosshairs of last Tuesday's attack, not just those that were unfortunate enough to be in the World Trade Center or Pentagon. The will of the American people will decide this war. If we are to win, it will be because we have what it takes to persevere through a few more hits, learn from our! mistakes, improvise, and adapt. If we can do that, we will eventually prevail. Everyone I've talked to in the past few days has shared a common frustration, saying in one form or another "I just wish I could do something!" You are already doing it. Just keep faith in America, and continue to support your President and military, and the outcome is certain. If we fail to do so, the outcome is equally certain. God Bless America Dr. Tony Kern, Lt Col, USAF (Ret) Former Director of Military History, USAF Academy ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aileron Gap Seal Installation
Date: Sep 21, 2001
From: Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
> >Can anyone out there tell me if they used the AN3-3 rivets to install >the aileron gap seal to the top wing skin on a -6? If so, How did you >install those rivets? The plans call out for 3-3 rivets but I can't for >the live of me see how to install those rivets without removing the top >skin. Since my top skin is already installed and riveted on, that >option is out of the question. > If I recall correctly I just bent the bottom part of the fairing to get a bucking bar in for the top rivets. I think pop rivets were used at the bottom. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com>
Subject: Aileron Gap Seal Installation
Date: Sep 21, 2001
I managed to cram a bucking bar in the space and get one of mine riveted on that way. It turned out a mess. I drilled it out, made a new gap seal, and riveted it with pop rivets. Just rivet it with pop rivets. It's easy. It works. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Nellis [mailto:mnellis(at)peoplepc.com] > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 10:14 AM > To: rv6-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Aileron Gap Seal Installation > > > > Can anyone out there tell me if they used the AN3-3 rivets to install > the aileron gap seal to the top wing skin on a -6? If so, How did you > install those rivets? The plans call out for 3-3 rivets but > I can't for > the live of me see how to install those rivets without > removing the top > skin. Since my top skin is already installed and riveted on, that > option is out of the question. > > Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com > Plainfield, IL > RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps > Stinson 108-2 N9666K > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: RV6-List: Aileron Gap Seal Installation
Date: Sep 21, 2001
Yes, Mike it can be done. You need a footed bucking bar. Kind of looks like an "s" shaped bar. Use the pointed foot while pulling the gap seal away from the rear spar and you can reach it with that bar. Or, you could cheat and use pop rivets like I have seen alot of airplanes with. Paul Besing RV-6A N197AB Arizona http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Flying Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 8:13 AM Subject: RV6-List: Aileron Gap Seal Installation --> RV6-List message posted by: "Mike Nellis" Can anyone out there tell me if they used the AN3-3 rivets to install the aileron gap seal to the top wing skin on a -6? If so, How did you install those rivets? The plans call out for 3-3 rivets but I can't for the live of me see how to install those rivets without removing the top skin. Since my top skin is already installed and riveted on, that option is out of the question. Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com Plainfield, IL RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps Stinson 108-2 N9666K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron Gap Seal Installation
Date: Sep 21, 2001
Mike, I had my top skins riveted on first, also. I bent the fairing up until I could get a long back-rivet set in there (my wife was holding the bucking bar on the top of the skin. This force tended to make some of the clecoes pop out, so for the next one I'll probably clamp it as well as cleco (or maybe use one of those wingnut clecoes. It's not easy to do, but I did it. The rivets that go into the spar were driven with a normal 1/8" set and bucking bar. No pop rivets were used. Jim Bower St. Louis, MO RV-6A N143DJ Wings (Fuselage parts inventoried and waiting) >From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: Aileron Gap Seal Installation >Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:13:39 -0500 > > >Can anyone out there tell me if they used the AN3-3 rivets to install >the aileron gap seal to the top wing skin on a -6? If so, How did you >install those rivets? The plans call out for 3-3 rivets but I can't for >the live of me see how to install those rivets without removing the top >skin. Since my top skin is already installed and riveted on, that >option is out of the question. > >Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com >Plainfield, IL >RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps >Stinson 108-2 N9666K > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aileron Gap Seal Installation
From: Scott.Fink(at)microchip.com
Date: Sep 21, 2001
09/21/2001 09:42:26 AM, Serialize complete at 09/21/2001 09:42:26 AM Yes I did my top skins first and used AN3-3 on my -6. I just used an offset bucking bar (from Avery's, the one that looks kind of like a "T", their part number 625, go to http://coldfusion.averytools.com/shopping.cfm)to buck the rivits before I riveted the gap seal to the spar. Scott RV-6 left wing "Mike Nellis" Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com 09/21/2001 08:13 AM Please respond to rv-list To: cc: Subject: RV-List: Aileron Gap Seal Installation Can anyone out there tell me if they used the AN3-3 rivets to install the aileron gap seal to the top wing skin on a -6? If so, How did you install those rivets? The plans call out for 3-3 rivets but I can't for the live of me see how to install those rivets without removing the top skin. Since my top skin is already installed and riveted on, that option is out of the question. Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com Plainfield, IL RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps Stinson 108-2 N9666K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron Gap Seal Installation
Date: Sep 21, 2001
Yes, Mike it can be done. You need a footed bucking bar. Kind of looks like an "s" shaped bar. Use the pointed foot while pulling the gap seal away from the rear spar and you can reach it with that bar. Or, you could cheat and use pop rivets like I have seen alot of airplanes with. Paul Besing RV-6A N197AB Arizona http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Flying Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 8:13 AM Subject: RV-List: Aileron Gap Seal Installation Can anyone out there tell me if they used the AN3-3 rivets to install the aileron gap seal to the top wing skin on a -6? If so, How did you install those rivets? The plans call out for 3-3 rivets but I can't for the live of me see how to install those rivets without removing the top skin. Since my top skin is already installed and riveted on, that option is out of the question. Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com Plainfield, IL RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps Stinson 108-2 N9666K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 21, 2001
Subject: Re: Aileron Gap Seal Installation
Mike: Hopefully you have not yet riveted the bottom edge of the gap seal. Assuming that, you can lift he bottom edge enough to slide a long skinny bucking bar under it and buck the 3-3s. I worked by myself so I used two short pieces of 1X2 wood on each side of the bucking bar to hold the gap seal free of the bar so the bar was free. A little slow and awkward because of having to relocate the pieces of wood and bar for each rivet but it worked OK. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, finish kit stuff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com>
Subject: proseal on canopies
Date: Sep 21, 2001
Jim, I had good luck using a syringe to apply proseal on my tanks. You can see a picture of what I used on this web page: http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/tanks.html It is shown on the 5th picture on the page. I used a tongue depressor to load the proseal into the syringe. I had tried a 35cc syringe but it took too much force to depress the plunger. The 20cc syringe worked much better. Applying a 1/16 inch diameter bead is easy with this method. Chris Heitman Dousman WI RV-9A N94ME (reserved) http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html -----Original Message----- I would love to use Proseal to seal up the edges left between the canopy and the fairing but I don't have the slightest idea how to get a bead of it small enough to insert between these two. I need a bead about 1/8 to 1/16 inch in diameter. How did others do this and are there cake decorating tools involved :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glenn & Judi" <dirtyrottenscoundrels(at)home.com>
Subject: Aileron Gap Seal Installation
Date: Sep 21, 2001
Mike, Rivet the aileron gap seal/top skin rivets before pop-riveting the aileron gap seal/aft spar. You'll have to pull the gap seal back to get a bucking bar back there. -Glenn Gordon Buffalo Grove, IL N442E (reserved) At Paint! -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Nellis Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 10:14 AM Subject: RV-List: Aileron Gap Seal Installation Can anyone out there tell me if they used the AN3-3 rivets to install the aileron gap seal to the top wing skin on a -6? If so, How did you install those rivets? The plans call out for 3-3 rivets but I can't for the live of me see how to install those rivets without removing the top skin. Since my top skin is already installed and riveted on, that option is out of the question. Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com Plainfield, IL RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps Stinson 108-2 N9666K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Oil Temperatures (Again!)
Date: Sep 21, 2001
The archives have a lot of posts wherein RV-ers say they reach a certain oil temperature after climbing to some altitude, and then it drops back to what you might call a "cruise" oil temperature - that is, after temperature stabilization. My question: How long (in minutes) does this take in your RV6/6A ? - those RV4's seem to run so cool that information from that group may not mean much to me. Any response would be appreciated, even if it's only a gut guess from your experience. Thanks John at Salida, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV4" <VansRV4GRVMJ(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: generous RVer
Date: Sep 21, 2001
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Thompson" <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 1:57 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: generous RVer There is a rv6 for sale on ebay, $90,000 US. proceeds go to victims of last weeks disasters. marcel de ruiter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Temperatures (Again!)
Date: Sep 21, 2001
> My question: How long (in minutes) does this take in your RV6/6A ? - those > RV4's seem to run so cool that information from that group may not mean much > to me. John, It takes 5-6 minutes in my RV-8. Randy Lervold www.rv-8.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2001
From: "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Temperatures (Again!)
> The archives have a lot of posts wherein RV-ers say they reach a certain oil > temperature after climbing to some altitude, and then it drops back to what > you might call a "cruise" oil temperature - that is, after temperature > stabilization. > John, I don't know if this answers your question, and either way, these are only very rough estimates as I've never actually computed the numbers. What I've noticed after I installed an oil cooler access door on my 6A is: on a cool day if I take off, climb a few thousand feet and cruise with the cooler door fully open my oil temps will only reach from 140-150. Once in cruise, if I close the door completely, within 5 minutes it climbs to about 180-190 and stabilizes. However, once its warmed up, if I re-open the door all the way, it might take 20-30 minutes for it to start to cool again, and then only dropping down to the 160 range. It will not drop back to the original 140; at least not in typical cruise or low power cruise settings. On hot days with long climbs and the door fully closed I've seen 230-240 and with the door open 170-180. On Texas hot days, I have no idea. Changes when operating the door show the same pattern, fast to get hot - much slower to cool down) Overall, the cooler door works really well. I was flying much to cold before it was installed. Now I can to adjust the doors position to reach proper cruise temps in almost all conditions in the 180-190 range. I'd recommend the installation to anyone. Andy Builder's Bookstore http://buildersbooks.com eCharts http://eCharts.cc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: proseal on canopies
Date: Sep 21, 2001
I recommend a product called "Lexel". I used it to seal my canopy on the recommendation of a Mooney owner who used it in the replacement of his windshield. It's a H/W store product (I got it at ACE). Before using it I checked with the manuf. as to its suitability on plexi and got a green light from them. I also tested it on a chunk of scrap, with no adverse effects. I have experienced no crazing or other damage after 3+ yrs. It bonds quite well (I did rough up the surface a bit and clean it really well) and is clear (the main advantage over proseal IMHO). Cleans up with Naptha or alcohol, neither of which are harmful to plexi. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~280 hrs) Portland, OR www.vanshomewing.org ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2001
From: Arthur Glaser <airplane(at)megsinet.net>
Colin Koebel , David Bukowski , Daniel Drelich , dhoop , doc , earl stark , Gary Glaser , Jaugilas , Joy Otry , Kurt Faron , lou and shirley fish , marsha schwarz , matt gibson , miles jacobs , "PascomCorp(at)aol.com" , "Pegit2(at)aol.com" , Phil Branshaw , "rnielsen(at)isd.net" , "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" , shakib a qutob , Sherry Berman-Robinson , "SSBubbe(at)aol.com" , sue gregor , "rv-list(at)matronics.com"
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: ]]
> Greg Kotulski wrote: > > > Election Day in the Republic > > > > Tuesday, September 11, 2001, there were many elections taking place all > > over the > > United States. Most of them were small, municipal and county elections. > > Votes were > > made on subjects ranging from who would be able to claim the candidacy of > > a > > particular party for a particular forthcoming election, to the winning of > > such seats as a councilperson or mayor. > > > > But there was one vote taken that was not scheduled. No seat on any city > > council was up for grabs. No amount of campaign support was at stake. No > > determination on curfew, noise limits for parties, or whether or not a > > stop > > sign should be put up at an intersection was being decided. No scheduled > > vote > > was intended to affect the nation as a whole. But one did. > > > > On a speeding aircraft, only partially filled, somewhere over the farms of > > Pennsylvania, a vote was taken. No other vote count was so heart > > wrenching. > > No other question so important was decided in these wide lands by so few. > > And > > their franchise claimed such a price, a price no person should ever be > > forced > > to pay. > > > > Three men spoke to their loved ones that day. United Airlines Flight 93 > > out > > of Newark was hijacked, and the men heard through their phones that > > thousands > > were killed a short time before by two other airliners in New York. > > > > Their response humbles me. > > > > They took a vote. > > > > They voted whether to die resisting the monsters that came into their > > lives > > that Election Day. They voted on whether they would reach out and > > extinguish > > death by embracing it - whether they would die to save unknown people, in > > unknown numbers, somewhere in the morning ahead of them, rushing ever > > closer. > > > > And nothing in my life has prepared me to explain how I felt when I read > > those four words this morning. > > > > They took a vote. > > > > Their names were: Mark Bingham, Jeremy Glick, and Thomas E. Burnett. > > > > -------------- > > > > I'm still stunned that such greatness is so under reported. > > > > Next Election Day, > > let us all remember Mark, Jeremy and Thomas, THEY VOTED ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Flying again
Date: Sep 21, 2001
Went flying today. After over a week of turmoil, shock and emotional chaos, we VFR airplane drivers are free to go. Well, most of us but not all. I took a short flight in the practice area just to shake off the cobwebs. Have a BFR due in October and want to make sure I can still turn 'round a point. Oh hell yeah I can...on a wingtip if needbe. Neat airplanes these RV's. No terrorist alive could ever dream of such splendor..freedom..and satisfaction in doing such things. No matter how many buildings fall, or how many of our beloved American brethren pass on, we have already won this war. We can FLY. Although my short trip into the sunny afternoon sky was greatly satisfying, it was also bittersweet. I felt a subtle sadness unlike that which I have felt in the past week. Looking skyward from my lofty perch, I could not help but get misty eyed. To the fallen firemen, police, rescue workers, office workers, and flight crews....this one is for YOU. Proud to be a free flying AMERICAN, Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Flight Traning Restored
Date: Sep 21, 2001
One step closer, folks. See Below. Paul Besing RV-6A N197AB Arizona http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Flying Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com FAA approves resumption of most flight training activities 9/21/2001 7:00:23 PM - The FAA has just released a notam permitting the resumption of most flight training activities. The notam, which is effective at 0000Z (8 p.m. ET) tonight, allows VFR flight training in non-turbojet aircraft and gliders (weighing less than 12,500 pounds) outside of enhanced Class B airspace. Within enhanced Class B airspace, with the exception of the Boston enhanced Class B and the Washington and New York exclusion areas (see TFR), VFR flight training in single- and multi-engine piston-powered aircraft under 6,000 pounds is permitted. (Almost all single-engine and light twin piston powered aircraft are less than 6,000). VFR flight training is still prohibited in the Boston enhanced Class B and in the Washington and New York exclusionary areas. (See AOPA's plain-language guidance on notams.) "We're absolutely delighted that the majority of the nation's flight training operations can get back in the air this weekend," said AOPA President Phil Boyer. "This is fantastic news for a segment of our industry that was suffering greatly. "AOPA is also pleased to have played a role in crafting the solution to restoring flight training in the Class B areas. AOPA earlier this week gave FAA a compilation of the number and weights of GA aircraft inside Class B airspace. The association suggested that a temporary 6,000-pound weight limit could be imposed to answer security concerns near major metropolitan areas." Conspicuously missing from this good news is permission for basic, non-training VFR flight in enhanced Class B airspace Boyer stated, "This is bizarre, and we expected VFR operations would be approved concurrent with flight training." In raising this issue with the FAA, it seems there is the perception of a greater element of control with f light training than non-training operations. The agency has assured AOPA they have a clear set of proposals to restore most VFR operations in enhanced Class B airspace, but they now must be approved at a higher level before they can proceed. In addition, Boyer pressed for the relocation of aircraft from the exclusionary Washington and New York areas. He was told that work on this is progressing, with relief expected very shortly. Boyer assured members that, "FAA isn't taking the weekend off on these remaining issues, and neither is AOPA staff. We'll be working to assist FAA in any manner to rapidly close the loopholes that are so critical to expanding Class B VFR operations and the movement of aircraft in the two most affected urban areas." ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2001
Subject: A certian letter
From: lm4(at)juno.com
Hi folks, Either this morning or yesterday morning I received a post (I think it was from this list) from a Middle easterner who has lived in this country for about 35 years. He explained certian things about Afganistan. I can't believe I threw it out. If anyone has a copy of it could you please send me a copy. Thank you. Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 21, 2001
Subject: Re: RV Fall Classic at Lebanon Tn.
In a message dated 9/21/01 12:58:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gcoonan(at)home.com writes: << I'm down in M'boro, what time is the fly-in, my -7 in not complete but I


September 17, 2001 - September 21, 2001

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