RV-Archive.digest.vol-ln
September 17, 2001 - September 21, 2001
just temporarily slowing things down until they can slowly lift the heavy
hand and allow people to move again. Or could be that they want the
training facilities to fail so the terrorist can't get trained; here that
is. I really believe that Senator McCains' group thinks aviation should be
for airlines and the military boys. Seems pretty obvious that's the way he
thinks. There is no question, our rights as pilots are in question now.
Anyway, if you are a procrastinator like me. And have always been torn
between the AOPA membership and that cool tool from Avery's that could
really help on your project. Now would be the time to step up and call the
AOPA (800-USA-AOPA) and lend your support to Phil Boyer. It could turn out
that you won't need the Avery tool as your RV-8 kit will make a really cool
salad bar down at the local restaurant. Its only $40.00 and you get a cool
hat to boot.
So this is my Jerry Lewis telethon type challenge, If you want to fly some
time in the future, and you don't belong to the AOPA, I'm calling you out
in the street. You are doing it for yourself. Ya can almost hear Jerry
sing:
" Look at him he's flyin, John McCain is cryin
Imagine recreational pilots everywhere........
It's your future dude.
Eric Henson
By the way, if any of you are on other lists or aviation groups, could you
please forward this to those lists.
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: oil cooler on baffle, etc |
From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
10:28:15 AM
Well, I can say that the gang in our hangar just proved this. Ken Sebok, a
lurker on this list bought an RV-6 right after the time was flown off. It
had the remote oil cooler mount on a Niagra and I believe was running about
240 degrees. He tried everything, new baffeling, checked the vernatherm,
deflector in front of the front cylinders. Nothing helped. Finally moved it
to the back baffle. It worked, I think he's seeing under 220 at cruise now.
Still a little toasty but maybe that will come down. He's also putting on
the JC Whittney filter heat sink on his AirWolf system.
Next time Ken (bandit general aviation terrorist for the experamental
jihad) takes to the skys he should be in good shape.
Eric
(Those F-16's better watch their six)
"Robert Dickson"(at)matronics.com@matronics.com on 09/17/2001 08:52:32 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: oil cooler on baffle, etc
they (van's) have apparently come to believe that oil coolers just work
better in the direct stream off that rear baffle. The scat tube allegedly
doesn't provide nearly as good an airstream across the fins. It was also
his
opinion that it's easier to mount on the baffle than the firewall. I think
he's probably right.
please, I'm just reporting what I was told by Gus.
I decided on the rear baffle mount after considering what he said, and also
after thinking about the space that will be freed up on the firewall. I'd
like to put in a remote oil filter system and I think this will give me the
space.
Robert Dickson
RV-6A seeing light at the end of the baffle tunnel
Fayetteville NC
----------
>From: Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net>
>To: RV List
>Subject: RV-List: oil cooler on baffle, etc
>Date: Sun, Sep 16, 2001, 1:38 PM
>
>
> What were Gus' arguments for not putting the oil cooler on the firewall?
> I had planned to do that on my 6A. I have an 0-320 and one of Van's
> Niagara coolers.
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6AQB N11CB (Reserved)
> San Antonio
>
>>> Subject: RV-List: oil cooler on baffle, etc
>>> From: "Robert Dickson"@matronics.com
>>>
>>>
>> Gus at Van's talked me into putting my oil cooler on the left rear
>> baffle instead of the firewall as I was planning. After studying
>> what's involved in this process, I've got a question or two that I
>> can't find answers for in the archive. BTW I'm working on a -6A with
>> an O-360, CS, and Van's baffle kit. I'm installing their Niagara oil
>> cooler.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian.Schalme(at)matronics.com |
Subject: | Re: Parachute Packing Requirements |
Earl,
I am a skydiver with 860 skydives, eight years in the sport and a
National Championship to my credit. I personally know several FAA and
CSPA (Canadian Sport Parachuting Association) certified riggers. I'll
try to shed some light on the subject of emergency parachute packing.
In the U.S. the FAA designates two classes of riggers: Senior Rigger
and Master Rigger. A Senior Rigger is qualified to pack reserve and
emergency parachutes for anyone. They can also perform minor repairs to
the parachute equipment, such as small holes in the canopy fabric.
A Master Rigger holds all the privileges of a Senior Rigger. They can
also perform minor and major repairs to the entire parachute assembly
(harness, container, main and reserve). Such repairs can also be done on
emergency parachute equipment. Around the world, an FAA MAster Rigger's
ticket is regarded as the Ph.D. of parachute rigging. It is held in the
highest regard by all skydivers.
Skydivers in both our countries (and throughout the world for that
matter) learn to pack their main parachutes early on in their skydiving
career. However, their reserves must be inspected and repacked by a
Senior or Master Rigger every 120 days (180 here in Canada). If they
choose, they can take the training to earn a Senior or Master Rigger
rating, and be able to pack their own reserves (as well as other
people's). I know some people who are too cheap to pay a rigger to
repack their reserve so they obtained a rigger rating and use it just so
they can pack their own reserves :).
I have not heard of a rigger designation that allows you just to pack
your own reserve or emergency parachute.
I have a local FAA Master Rigger inspect and repack my reserve. He has
the formal training and 20 years of experience to guide him. I trust his
abilities and his judgment. After all, if I need to deploy my reserve is
*has* to work. There's no spare one after it. Someday I'll get a rigger
rating. Parachute technology is fascinating.
On the subject of repack cycles, the Parachute Industry Association
(PIA) did extensive research into the idea of extending the repack cycle
for nylon parachutes from 120 days to 180 days. Parachute manufacturers
as well as riggers in the field participated in the study. They found
that the porosity of the canopy fabric decreases in proportion to how
often it is handled (i.e. during deployment, inspection and repacking).
Porosity is undesirable; it reduces the performance of the canopy. No
ill effects were found in reserve parachutes that were not inspected for
180 days. It was the PIA's recommendation to increase the repack cycle
to 180 days.
In Canada, CSPA is the authority on reserve repack cycles, so we
adopted it. Since the FAA dictates the repack cycles, it will take some
time for them to adopt this recommendation. The United Sates Parachute
Association (USPA) is working on it.
Hope this helps.
Brian Schalme
Mid-Canada Director, Canadian Sport Parachuting Association
CSPA C-2133
RV8 Dreaming & Goal Setting
efortner wrote:
>
>
> Bill, a friend told me you could that you could get certified to pack your own
> chute
> but could not do it for anyone else. Sorta like an expermental repairman
> certificate.
> Any truth to this.
> Earl RV4
>
> "Bill Shook"@matronics.com wrote:
>
> snip
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ClearProp1(at)aol.com |
Subject: | God Bless America Apparel |
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, kolb-list(at)matronics.com,
zenith-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com,
lancair-list(at)matronics.com, cessna-list(at)matronics.com,
beech-list(at)matronics.com, cadet-list(at)matronics.com,
avionics-list(at)matronics.com, aerobatic-list(at)matronics.com,
pitts-list(at)matronics.com, homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com
As many of you know, the American Flags have sold out very quickly in most
stores across America. For those of you that want to wear the American Flag
proudly on your shirt or hat, we have them in stock and ready to send out.
The design is a waving flag with God Bless America proudly stated across the
flag.
A portion of every sale will go towards helping the families of this
disastrous crime. Show support for your country.
Scott Brown
Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc.
phone: 561-748-2420 Fax: 561-748-6980
Visit us at www.six-shooters.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | remote oil filters |
speaking of remote oil filters, what do you folks have to say about the
airwolf system versus the ADC?
Robert Dickson
RV-6A
Fayetteville NC, filin' & flyin' on Wednesday (not in an RV)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: God Bless America Apparel |
Hello Scott.
I appreciate your patriotic efforts!
Would it be possible to inform us "how much" will go to the families?????
Thanks,
Scott Morgan
----- Original Message -----
From: <ClearProp1(at)aol.com>
; ;
; ;
; ;
; ;
; ;
; ;
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 10:40 AM
Subject: RV-List: God Bless America Apparel
>
> As many of you know, the American Flags have sold out very quickly in most
> stores across America. For those of you that want to wear the American
Flag
> proudly on your shirt or hat, we have them in stock and ready to send out.
> The design is a waving flag with God Bless America proudly stated across
the
> flag.
>
> A portion of every sale will go towards helping the families of this
> disastrous crime. Show support for your country.
>
>
> Scott Brown
> Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc.
>
> phone: 561-748-2420 Fax: 561-748-6980
>
> Visit us at www.six-shooters.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Brake reservoir idea |
Folks,
The other day I was looking at some pictures of a RV that had the brake
reservoirs mounted on the copilots master cylinders.
Could someone post a pointer to those photos for me - I've lost them and
I think it's a pretty good idea...
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> |
Subject: | Carbon Hinge for Cowl |
All,
Twice in the past year I have brought up the concept of using a carbon-fiber
hinge as a potential "better" way to put our cowl halves together. I could
find nobody who had done this, so.... I did it. This is a report.
First, there is both carbon fiber and fiberglass hinge material available.
Here is the website of the stuff I used:
www.carbinge.com
The product itself is very nice, very precise, very light.
I am using camlocks across the top and bottom of the firewall, metal hinges
along the sides of the firewall, and carbon fiber hinges along the cowl
halves.
Specifically, I used carbon fiber hinge along both sides where the top and
bottom come together. They recommend using a rivet or two at each end to
prevent the bonded-on hinge from ever "pealing" away from the cowl (but I
used rivets spaced every 4 inches to make myself feel better). Once bonded
on, it is quite nice, seems to be "one" with the fiberglass cowl itself, and
should never break since it can flex just a bit more than the aluminum hinge
can.
HOWEVER, the cost for 7 feet of this stuff turned out to be $180.00, plus $7
shipping.
BOTTOM LINE: There is no question in my mind that this is NOT worth the
effort nor the cost. There is no need for anybody else to perform this
experiment. The data are in... don't waste time and money on composite
hinges for your cowl.
Please archive.
Jim
Tampa, FL
6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ClearProp1(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: God Bless America Apparel |
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, kolb-list(at)matronics.com,
zenith-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com,
lancair-list(at)matronics.com, cessna-list(at)matronics.com,
beech-list(at)matronics.com, cadet-list(at)matronics.com,
avionics-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com,
homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com
Sure, I am planning on sending a dollar from every shirts sold to both the
Fire Fighters Foundation and the Red Cross.
A few responses have indicated that I did not give a way to purchase these
items. Items can be purchased either over the phone, fax, or email by
forwarding your name, address, phone number and credit card for purchases. Or
you can send a check to:
Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc.
2731 SE Taiwinds Rd.
Jupiter, FL 33478
Items being sold are:
White T-shirts
Denim Blue hats
White Polo Shirts
Ash polo shirts
All are beautifully embroidered with the American Flag and "God Bless
America".
Thank you for all your responses!!
Scott Brown
Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc.
phone: 561-748-2420 Fax: 561-748-6980
Visit us at www.six-shooters.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: God Bless America Apparel |
i can recommend this guy, his work is first rate as he supplied myself a hat
and a shirt with a custom logo for my eaa chapter, the fly by knights.
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com> |
Subject: | God Bless America Apparel |
Just to back Scott up, he did a really great job on custom RV shirts for
the rv-listers sometime back.
He only charged $20 a piece and they were well done and high quality.
Ed Cole
RV6A N2169D Flying
RV6A N648RV Finishing
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ClearProp1(at)aol.com [SMTP:ClearProp1(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 10:15 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com;
> rocket-list(at)matronics.com; kolb-list(at)matronics.com;
> zenith-list(at)matronics.com; yak-list(at)matronics.com; ez-list(at)matronics.com;
> lancair-list(at)matronics.com; cessna-list(at)matronics.com;
> beech-list(at)matronics.com; cadet-list(at)matronics.com;
> avionics-list(at)matronics.com; pitts-list(at)matronics.com;
> homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: God Bless America Apparel
>
>
>
> families?????>
>
> Sure, I am planning on sending a dollar from every shirts sold to both the
>
> Fire Fighters Foundation and the Red Cross.
>
> A few responses have indicated that I did not give a way to purchase these
>
> items. Items can be purchased either over the phone, fax, or email by
> forwarding your name, address, phone number and credit card for purchases.
> Or
> you can send a check to:
>
> Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc.
> 2731 SE Taiwinds Rd.
> Jupiter, FL 33478
>
> Items being sold are:
>
> White T-shirts
> Denim Blue hats
> White Polo Shirts
> Ash polo shirts
>
> All are beautifully embroidered with the American Flag and "God Bless
> America".
>
> Thank you for all your responses!!
>
>
> Scott Brown
> Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc.
>
> phone: 561-748-2420 Fax: 561-748-6980
>
> Visit us at www.six-shooters.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
Maxim Home Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com
Products Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/MaximProducts/products.htm
New Products:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/new_products.cfm
Datasheets:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/l_datasheet3.cfm
The information contained in this message is confidential
and may be legally privileged. The message is intended
solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
Subject: | studs too short for prop governor |
I tried to mount a McCauley prop governor to an Aero Sport O-320 and the
mounting studs are too short. Only about one thread is exposed beyond the
flange of the governor. Has anyone else run into this? What is the best
source for longer studs? Should they be installed with Loctite 271 Stud
Lock?
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Terry Watson" <terrywatson3(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Brake reservoir idea |
Ralph,
This isn't precisely what you asked since it's in an Randy Lervold's RV-8,
but I think it might be what you had in mind.
www.rv-8.com/ideasproducts.htm
Terry
>
> Folks,
>
> The other day I was looking at some pictures of a RV that had the brake
> reservoirs mounted on the copilots master cylinders.
>
> Could someone post a pointer to those photos for me - I've lost them and
> I think it's a pretty good idea...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Brake reservoir idea - solved |
Bingo!
Thanks Terry - you're on my "beer" list.
Ralph
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Knicholas2(at)aol.com |
Subject: | white rocker switches |
I am looking for reasonably priced white color rocker switches for my RV9. I
have found some from several of the typical avionics sources (no names
here....) but the prices are rediculous! ($45-60 per switch!!!) I like the
look of a light color switch in a darkened cockpit but the black switches
from ACS are looking better all the time.
Kim Nicholas
RV9 fuse
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
Subject: | Re: Parachute Packing Requirements |
Brian,
Thanks for the GREAT information.
I am wondering, as I have heard there is not one rigger where I live, what
is involved with getting the training and certification as a rigger. Is it
fairly reasonable to do or is it lots of work with lots of ongoing
requirements? When I owned a citabria, I had a chute but it was chronically
out of date.
Aloha,
Russ
Maui
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Larry Hawkins <lhawkins(at)giant.com> |
Subject: | Carbon Hinge for Cowl |
I also tried the "carbinge" What a disaster. Not blaming the product, it is
a very good product and very precisely made. Perhaps too precise I bonded
them to my cowl but could not get them back together once installed. I am
not a great craftsman and should stick to the tried and true methods as I
ended up grinding them off and installing the hinges that Van's sent with
the kit. 20 hours work and $200 down the drain. Live and learn. Perhaps
someone else can learn from my mistakes.
Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, N-345SL, (reserved) finishing.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Norman, MD [mailto:jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com]
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 10:25 AM
Subject: RV-List: Carbon Hinge for Cowl
All,
Twice in the past year I have brought up the concept of using a carbon-fiber
hinge as a potential "better" way to put our cowl halves together. I could
find nobody who had done this, so.... I did it. This is a report.
First, there is both carbon fiber and fiberglass hinge material available.
Here is the website of the stuff I used:
www.carbinge.com
The product itself is very nice, very precise, very light.
I am using camlocks across the top and bottom of the firewall, metal hinges
along the sides of the firewall, and carbon fiber hinges along the cowl
halves.
Specifically, I used carbon fiber hinge along both sides where the top and
bottom come together. They recommend using a rivet or two at each end to
prevent the bonded-on hinge from ever "pealing" away from the cowl (but I
used rivets spaced every 4 inches to make myself feel better). Once bonded
on, it is quite nice, seems to be "one" with the fiberglass cowl itself, and
should never break since it can flex just a bit more than the aluminum hinge
can.
HOWEVER, the cost for 7 feet of this stuff turned out to be $180.00, plus $7
shipping.
BOTTOM LINE: There is no question in my mind that this is NOT worth the
effort nor the cost. There is no need for anybody else to perform this
experiment. The data are in... don't waste time and money on composite
hinges for your cowl.
Please archive.
Jim
Tampa, FL
6A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Weldments |
Vince,
I just finished doing this 3 weeks ago. I couldn't do it by myself for the
same reason. I had a friend over with thinner hands, who placed the nuts on
inside the spar box. The bolts were on the outside. Then he held an open end
wrench on the nut while I used the torque wrench. The open end wrench is
about 6 inches long. It would be difficult to do by yourself.
Bill Christie, RV8A , finis kit ordered!
----- Original Message -----
From: Vince <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 8:52 PM
Subject: RV-List: Landing Gear Weldments
>
> Hey guys, I was fitting the landing gear weldments on my RV-8A
> tonight. Can anyone offer any suggestions as to how to get the AN4
> bolts into the weldment that pass through the top of the 804 spar?
> My hand is too large to squeeze in there to insert and hold bolts.
> If I insert the bolt from the outside, how do I hold the nut that
> then has to be between the 804's to torque everything down?
>
>
> Vince Welch
> RV-8A Fuselage
> Roaming Shores, Ohio
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Carbon Hinge for Cowl |
From: | pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com |
09/17/2001 03:54:01 PM
I have been considering replacing the aluminum hinge on my -4 with
fiberglass hinge as soon as I start breaking eyelets. I am confused by
your conclusion that the fiberglass hinges are not worth the effort and
cost. Do you have some performance issues/data that you can share with us?
Dean Pichon
RV-4 (25hrs)
Arlington, MA
|--------+---------------------------------->
| | "Jim Norman, MD" |
| | |
| | Sent by: |
| | owner-rv-list-server@mat|
| | ronics.com |
| | |
| | |
| | 09/17/01 01:24 PM |
| | Please respond to |
| | rv-list |
| | |
|--------+---------------------------------->
|
|
| To:
|
| cc:
|
| bcc:
|
| Subject: RV-List: Carbon Hinge for Cowl
|
All,
Twice in the past year I have brought up the concept of using a
carbon-fiber
hinge as a potential "better" way to put our cowl halves together. I could
find nobody who had done this, so.... I did it. This is a report.
First, there is both carbon fiber and fiberglass hinge material available.
Here is the website of the stuff I used:
www.carbinge.com
The product itself is very nice, very precise, very light.
I am using camlocks across the top and bottom of the firewall, metal hinges
along the sides of the firewall, and carbon fiber hinges along the cowl
halves.
Specifically, I used carbon fiber hinge along both sides where the top and
bottom come together. They recommend using a rivet or two at each end to
prevent the bonded-on hinge from ever "pealing" away from the cowl (but I
used rivets spaced every 4 inches to make myself feel better). Once bonded
on, it is quite nice, seems to be "one" with the fiberglass cowl itself,
and
should never break since it can flex just a bit more than the aluminum
hinge
can.
HOWEVER, the cost for 7 feet of this stuff turned out to be $180.00, plus
$7
shipping.
BOTTOM LINE: There is no question in my mind that this is NOT worth the
effort nor the cost. There is no need for anybody else to perform this
experiment. The data are in... don't waste time and money on composite
hinges for your cowl.
Please archive.
Jim
Tampa, FL
6A
**** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of
Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: VFR concerns |
just got back from my local FBO, i had 3 days scheduled to start my IFR
training, sat was scrubbed as all planes were kept down. this coming thurs
is scrubbed, but next sat is still on the books. any flights or training
flights must have an IFR flightplan filed, is what the manager told me. i
asked if the instructor would get the flight plan filed and we could go do
some training, but i think he was getting uncomfortable with the idea, and
probably made a phone call after i left.
he said he would contact me if sat would still be a go.
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
Listers,
through a private e-mail from my buddy Jim Norman, i learned he was at the
scene and like his true nature gave assistance, as the nice guy he is. WAY
TO GO JIM !!!
below is what he said
scott
tampa
Yep, I was there. Volunteered as a trauma surgeon (I used to be one of the 5
trained trauma surgeons in Tampa).
I've cut this stupid Sam James Cowl into about 20 pieces, and have glued
them all back together again. This weekend I had to cut the air scoop off
and put it in a different place.
What a pain!
jim
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "George McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca> |
Subject: | white rocker switches |
-
I am looking for reasonably priced white color rocker switches for my RV9.
I
have found some from several of the typical avionics sources (no names
here....) but the prices are rediculous! ($45-60 per switch!!!) I like
the
look of a light color switch in a darkened cockpit but the black switches
from ACS are looking better all the time.
Kim Nicholas
RV9 fuse
Seattle
Hi Kim
Try Wicks,- catalog page 133, $5 to $10 range. Much more time consuming to
make those rectangular holes with small drill bit and file, but they sure
look nice in my flat black panel.
George McNutt
Langley, B.C. (6A)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: VFR concerns |
From: | james freeman <flyeyes(at)bellsouth.net> |
This probably isn't helping our case any.....:-(
AAI IIC:
**** 09/17/2001 Preliminary Accident/Incident Data Record 3 ****
A. Type: A Mid Air: N Missing: N Entry date: 09/17/2001
From: WESTERN PACIFIC REGION OPERATIONS CENTER
B. Reg. No.: 4312Q M/M: C172 Desc: 172, P172, R172, Skyhawk, Hawk
Activity: Pleasure Phase: Unknown GA-A/C: General Aviation
Descr: ACFT CRASHED INTO A HOUSE UNDER UNKNOWN CIRCUMSTANCES AND WAS
DESTROYED, THE PILOT/SOLE OCCUPANT SUFFERED FATAL INJURIES, NO
GROUND INJURIES WERE REPORTED, BUT THE EXTENT OF GROUND DAMAGE IS
UNKNOWN, TUCSON, AZ.
WX: UNKN
Damage: Destroyed
C2. Injury Data: # Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
D. Location. City: TUCSON State: AZ Country: US
E. Event Date: 09/16/2001 Time: 1445
F. Invest Coverage. IIC: Reg/DO: WP07 DO City: SCOTTSDALE
DO State: AZ Others: NTSB
G. Flt Handling. Dep Pt: LA CHOLLA, AZ Dep Date: 09/16/2001 Time:
Dest: UNKN Last Radio Cont: NONE Flt Plan: NONE
Last Clearance: NONE WX Briefing: U
Other:
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> |
Subject: | Carbon Hinge for Cowl |
No performance issues since my plane is still taking up valuable space in
the garage. However, for $200 I'm not sure how much help they can be. From
your standpoint, I guess it depends on where you are breaking your hinge
islets (if they break at all). They are no easier to put on than the hinges,
and, if you have them a bit miss-aligned (as another post suggested) then
you are screwed.
jim
Tampa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Carbon Hinge for Cowl
I have been considering replacing the aluminum hinge on my -4 with
fiberglass hinge as soon as I start breaking eyelets. I am confused by
your conclusion that the fiberglass hinges are not worth the effort and
cost. Do you have some performance issues/data that you can share with us?
Dean Pichon
RV-4 (25hrs)
Arlington, MA
|--------+---------------------------------->
| | "Jim Norman, MD" |
| | |
| | Sent by: |
| | owner-rv-list-server@mat|
| | ronics.com |
| | |
| | |
| | 09/17/01 01:24 PM |
| | Please respond to |
| | rv-list |
| | |
|--------+---------------------------------->
|
|
| To:
|
| cc:
|
| bcc:
|
| Subject: RV-List: Carbon Hinge for Cowl
|
All,
Twice in the past year I have brought up the concept of using a
carbon-fiber
hinge as a potential "better" way to put our cowl halves together. I could
find nobody who had done this, so.... I did it. This is a report.
First, there is both carbon fiber and fiberglass hinge material available.
Here is the website of the stuff I used:
www.carbinge.com
The product itself is very nice, very precise, very light.
I am using camlocks across the top and bottom of the firewall, metal hinges
along the sides of the firewall, and carbon fiber hinges along the cowl
halves.
Specifically, I used carbon fiber hinge along both sides where the top and
bottom come together. They recommend using a rivet or two at each end to
prevent the bonded-on hinge from ever "pealing" away from the cowl (but I
used rivets spaced every 4 inches to make myself feel better). Once bonded
on, it is quite nice, seems to be "one" with the fiberglass cowl itself,
and
should never break since it can flex just a bit more than the aluminum
hinge
can.
HOWEVER, the cost for 7 feet of this stuff turned out to be $180.00, plus
$7
shipping.
BOTTOM LINE: There is no question in my mind that this is NOT worth the
effort nor the cost. There is no need for anybody else to perform this
experiment. The data are in... don't waste time and money on composite
hinges for your cowl.
Please archive.
Jim
Tampa, FL
6A
**** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of
Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain
confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee
only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not
the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible.****
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> |
Subject: | Re: VFR concerns |
Another way to find your senators and reps is:
www.house.gov
and
www.senate.gov
I email all of mine tis morning.
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
HR-II, engine running now, taxi tests soon, flying ever??????
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Subject: | Re: VFR concerns |
Pilot dies as plane hits garage
Jim Davis / Staff
Northwest Fire District firefighters search through the wreckage of a
small private plane that crashed into a residence. Although the garage
was destroyed, the rest of the home escaped damage.
Jim Davis / Staff
Gloria Waddill, widow of crash victim James Kenneth Waddill, is
comforted by friend Linda DiBella during a meeting with the press.
Woman in N.W. Side home is unhurt; ailing man had not flown since 1995
By Joseph Barrios and Thomas Stauffer
ARIZONA DAILY STAR
James Waddill
did not file a flight plan.
A Tucson man who had not flown an airplane since 1995 died Sunday when
his single-engine Cessna crashed into the garage of a Northwest Side
home.
A woman in the home escaped injury.
Although investigators had not determined what caused the crash, the
pilot's wife fears he made the flight to prove he could still pilot an
airplane despite worsening health problems.
James Kenneth Waddill, 64, of the 3200 block of West Ina Road, died at
the scene of the crash at 7150 N. Omar Drive. The house is just south of
Ina and west of La Cholla Boulevard.
Waddill's wife, Gloria Waddill, said her husband bought the four-seat
plane several years ago but never flew it and had not flown an airplane
since 1995.
The Cessna 172L had not been flown in more than five years, said Richard
Rowland, an investigator with the Federal Aviation Administration, which
is investigating the crash.
LaVonne Ruffner, who was inside her home when the plane hit the garage,
was not injured. She is staying with relatives, said Katy Heiden, a
spokeswoman for the Northwest Fire District.
Rowland said the Cessna left La Cholla Airpark, a private airstrip
surrounded by houses in Tortolita, at about 7:30 a.m. Waddill did not
file a flight plan, Rowland said.
Under FAA regulations in place Sunday, all general aviation flights are
required to have a flight plan, and pilots are required to be in contact
with control towers.
All private flights were grounded Tuesday after the terrorist attacks in
Washington, D.C., and New York City. As of Wednesday, private flights
were restored under Instrument Flight Rules, said Mary Walker, president
of La Cholla Airpark.
"To fly IFR, you have to have a flight plan and FAA clearance," Walker
said. "The flight plan basically tells the aircraft identification and
type, destination, time, and route. The pilot and the aircraft also have
to be certified in IFR, and you have to have certain equipment."
It was not immediately known Sunday if Waddill was certified to fly IFR.
About 20 planes use the Northwest Side air park daily under normal
Visual Flight Rules, but that number has shrunk to one or two flights a
day under the FAA's new directives, she said.
Waddill's airplane flew over the Northwest Side for about a half-hour
before crashing, Walker said.
After several unsuccessful attempts to contact Waddill, the La Cholla
control tower called Tucson International Airport for help, said Deputy
Steve Easton, a Pima County Sheriff's Department spokesman.
An Army National Guard helicopter, already in the air for training, was
called to the area to watch over the airplane, Easton said.
Just before 8 a.m., witnesses said they saw the airplane make a turn and
head down.
Glenna Young was driving west on Ina Road to her church when she saw the
airplane tilt and fall below the horizon. Then she saw columns of smoke
billow into the sky. She kept on driving and did not return until after
she went to church.
"I didn't stop. I was frightened. Because of events taking place this
week, I was nervous; I wanted to stay away," Young said.
Northwest firefighters received a call of a plane crashing into a house
at 7:58 a.m., Heiden said. Ten fire vehicles and 42 firefighters
responded.
"They were able to confine the flames pretty much to the garage," Heiden
said. "The garage is gone, but the house is still there."
Joe Rowles lives across the street from the damaged house. Usually an
early riser, he had just awakened when he heard the explosion. Rowles
said he had a chance to talk to the house's owner and said she was doing
all right. Ruffner could not be reached for comment.
FBI agents were called to the scene because of concern that it might be
a terrorist act or related to Tuesday's attacks in New York and
Washington, said Special Agent Ed Hall, an FBI spokesman. The
investigation was turned over to the Sheriff's Department when it was
determined not to be related.
Gloria Waddill said her husband told her when he left home Sunday that
he was going to put some wheel coverings on the airplane.
"I've been telling him he can't be up in the air anymore. I guess I
shouldn't have been telling him stuff like that because he was going to
prove to me he could still fly, damn it," said Waddill, an officer with
the Arizona Department of Corrections.
James Waddill, who carried an oxygen tank with him, suffered from
emphysema and high blood pressure.
Investigators will try to determine if Waddill had a medical emergency
or mechanical problems, or if he was trying to land the plane.
Rowland said it was possible that Waddill's plane may have had engine
trouble, based on statements from witnesses who said they heard the
plane sputtering.
The Cessna was built in 1971 and was registered in Waddill's name on
Jan. 14, 1999, according to FAA records.
Waddill had a private pilot's license, which was to expire in April
2002. But investigators said the plane had not been flown since 1995 and
was last refueled in July.
This was the second tragedy to befall the Waddills this year. On July
31, their Northwest Side home was destroyed by fire.
James Waddill worked for about 40 years as a diesel mechanic at various
Tucson-area businesses. He is also survived by a daughter and a son.
----- Original Message -----
From: "james freeman" <flyeyes(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: VFR concerns
This probably isn't helping our case any.....:-(
AAI IIC:
**** 09/17/2001 Preliminary Accident/Incident Data Record 3 ****
A. Type: A Mid Air: N Missing: N Entry date: 09/17/2001
From: WESTERN PACIFIC REGION OPERATIONS CENTER
B. Reg. No.: 4312Q M/M: C172 Desc: 172, P172, R172, Skyhawk,
Hawk
Activity: Pleasure Phase: Unknown GA-A/C: General Aviation
Descr: ACFT CRASHED INTO A HOUSE UNDER UNKNOWN CIRCUMSTANCES AND WAS
DESTROYED, THE PILOT/SOLE OCCUPANT SUFFERED FATAL INJURIES, NO
GROUND INJURIES WERE REPORTED, BUT THE EXTENT OF GROUND DAMAGE IS
UNKNOWN, TUCSON, AZ.
WX: UNKN
Damage: Destroyed
C2. Injury Data: # Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
D. Location. City: TUCSON State: AZ Country: US
E. Event Date: 09/16/2001 Time: 1445
F. Invest Coverage. IIC: Reg/DO: WP07 DO City: SCOTTSDALE
DO State: AZ Others: NTSB
G. Flt Handling. Dep Pt: LA CHOLLA, AZ Dep Date: 09/16/2001 Time:
Dest: UNKN Last Radio Cont: NONE Flt Plan: NONE
Last Clearance: NONE WX Briefing: U
Other:
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
Subject: | I spoke w/ AOPA this Morning about VFR |
I called AOPA this morning to see what they could tell me about the
resumption of VFR flight. Here's the gist of the conversation:
1) When IFR was reinstated, it was suggested that it will help get VFR
reinstated if pilots behave. Don't be tempted to go VFR joy riding until the
NOTAM is revoked. That sort of behavior will only delay things.
2) AOPA is unaware of any laundry list of items that "the powers that be"
want changed before VFR is reinstated. This is a good thing.
3) AOPA hasn't been told (or at least isn't telling) what the decision
process is being used to decide when we get to go flying again. To me, that
is a bad thing.
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Message to my representative |
In a message dated 9/16/01 2:08:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time, CW9371(at)aol.com
writes:
> Just give people a break, this will all be sorted out and everything
> will be fine.
>
> CW
I surely hope you are right about that. In the meantime, I hope we don't see
too many FBO's go south. Although I cannot presently fly, I am more
concerned about the FBO's, A&P's, etc. Here's to hoping this doesn't last
long enough to cause
any real lasting harm.
Jim Nice
WA State
Trying to be patient, but just barely managing.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Rotating Map/Panel Light wanted |
mark
i just got 2 in the mail today from vans, i'll check to see what color they
are tommorrow as they are at my office.
scott
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: VFR concerns |
In a message dated 09/17/2001 6:53:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ABAYMAN(at)aol.com writes:
> with all due respect, lets let them get a handle on the situation. at my
> home
> airport, if you don't turn base really quick, you would be in McDill AFB
> airspace, ( Central Command for the Middle East ) . i doubt seriously if
> they
> could stop someone with ill intent from reaching any buildings they desired
>
and I want to understand yours, Scott. How does IFR-only reduce this threat?
Today I spoke with an aviator who lives just down the road a piece. I wanted
to commiserate with a fellow grounded flyer. He informed me he was anything
but grounded and had made an interstate flight only this week end. Mind you,
his airstrip is private, and his plane is not transponder-equipped (he
charges his batteries on the ground, not from the engine.) He was aware of
the VFR prohibition, but adamant that if we capitulate to "the Arabs" on this
score, they have won. He believes the Feds are too busy patrolling the large
cities to bother with him, and knows they neverseemed able to track him on
radar as a primary target even when he was in radio contact with approach at
the nearby major airport. Besides, how could they tell he was not an
agricultural flight, not subject to the ban? (I pointed out that ag flights
are now again grounded.) Furthermore, he pointed out that there was no way
the authorities could stop him from putting two drums of avgas in the back of
the (distinctive airplane name deleted to protect his identity) and plowing
into a nearby large metropolitan building if that was ever his intent. No
one's reaction time is that fast, and no force can patrol everywhere at once.
He reminded me that there is also no protection whatsoever against the
hypothetical non-terrorist airline pilot who stresses out, decides "to hell
with life, let's end it all with a big bang" and duplicates Tuesday's horror
on his own. A government that promises such protection speaks lies, and
citizens who clamor for government to protect them from every conceivable
threat want badly to be lied to. Problem is, they will trade away their
rights (and the rights of "those private pilots" even more glibly) to gain
that false promise of security. If no one believes that living free is worth
living with risks, then how can we expect Americans in uniform to risk their
lives in defense of the free folks back home? It is an oxymoronic
proposition.
The airliners, each one now a potential flying bomb, are first to retake to
the the skies over America, while Mom and Pop and their family aerial touring
cars remain grounded. Our government has got it quite backwards, calling
evil good, and good evil, if you will. Depending on your level of cynicism,
the government's getting its act backwards is either a sign of terrorist
victory, or a signal that, despite the attack, it's back to business as usual
at the federal level. Either way, it isn't pretty.
To paraphrase a popular 2nd amendment bumper sticker: When they take away
VFR, the terrorists will rent a car. When they return VFR, the terrorists
will continue to rent cars. They love cars. Suicide car bombing is a way of
life for these people.
Here's another: If you take away my small single engine airplane, what will
I use to launch terror strikes on empty garages in northwest Tucson?!
I might add that I'm in this discussion for the principle of the thing, as I
have disassembled my RV to non-flying status for a few weeks to get new wheel
pants and gear legs, etc, installed. I do, however, believe that ideas have
consequences and this particular principle is highly, highly important. A
classic case of honorable Americans getting lost in the low signal to noise
ratio of the present crisis, and trampled in the name of national interest.
-bill b
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
Subject: | OPT-1 Question/Problem (?) Long |
Long, so DELETE now if you're not interested.
This is a follow-up on my previous post regarding high oil temperatures (?)
and the question of the Electronics International OPT-1 oil temp/oil
pressure gauge being accurate or not. (Read around 29 degrees higher than
the older unit I was using for six years.) Putting the EI unit's sensor into
boiling water and letting it 'cook' for about 5-minutes gave a reading of
189 degrees, when the local altimeter was 30.37 (should have read
212.83-degrees F.)
EI asked for the unit back to check it. They called this afternoon and said
they could find nothing amiss. They are sending a replacement sensor and the
connecting cable (thermocouple wire) so see if that will correct the
problem.
In the meantime I asked Pacific Oil Cooler Service what it would cost to
have my Niagara 20002A oil cooler cleaned, a 7-row unit, in case that was
somehow involved. The quote I got was $144. I opted instead to pay $205 for
a NEW Aero-Classic's 90-row cooler (see their web site at
www.aero-classic.com or look up Pacific Oil Cooler Services' web
site...they're now selling the Aero Classic at what is said to be a
significant introductory price.
Performance charts at those web sites show the Aero Classic to be as good or
superior to the Niagara.
I also insured my baffles were tight, made a larger plenum that feeds the
oil cooler, hoping for better air distribution over the face of the cooler.
I added a heat shield on the Vetterman cross-over exhaust forward of the oil
sump to keep radiant heat from the exhaust pipe from adding to sump
temperatures.
I checked the Vernatherm...it opens a bit more than Lycoming calls for, so
that is not the problem.
I moved some electronic ignition spark plug cables that might have had a
minor effect on the air entering the SCAT tube to the oil cooler.
I removed and visually inspected both the -8 oil tubes to the oil
cooler...no rubber 'flaps' or other obstructions.
I checked that a 7/8th inch plug at the accessory body/oil filter adapter
did not have a spring and plunger installed. It did not.
Oil screen was serviced, and no problems there.
Now all I need is the OK to fly FR and we'll see if something worked. More
later.
John at Salad, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net> |
Subject: | Re: studs too short for prop governor |
> I tried to mount a McCauley prop governor to an Aero Sport O-320 and the
> mounting studs are too short.
snip
>What is the best source for longer studs? Should they be installed with
Loctite 271 Stud
> Lock?
>
> Chris Heitman
>
These are not generic studs as are available from a bolt supply. I got some
longer studs from El Reno Aviation, El Reno, OK. They had really good
service. Phone 405-262-2387. They are on the field at El Reno (99F).
Slightly expensive but what Lycoming part isn't.
I used red Locktite - hope I don't ever have to take them out.
Stan Blanton
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: OPT-1 Question/Problem (?) Long |
> This is a follow-up on my previous post regarding high oil temperatures
(?)
> and the question of the Electronics International OPT-1 oil temp/oil
> pressure gauge being accurate or not. (Read around 29 degrees higher than
> the older unit I was using for six years.) Putting the EI unit's sensor
into
> boiling water and letting it 'cook' for about 5-minutes gave a reading of
> 189 degrees, when the local altimeter was 30.37 (should have read
> 212.83-degrees F.)
>
> EI asked for the unit back to check it. They called this afternoon and
said
> they could find nothing amiss. They are sending a replacement sensor and
the
> connecting cable (thermocouple wire) so see if that will correct the
> problem.
John,
They said there was "nothing amiss", did they check it in boiling water or
somehow check the calibration? Will you repeat the boiling water test on the
new sensor? Please do and let us know.
Thanks,
Randy Lervold
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Subject: | Re: studs too short for prop governor |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: studs too short for prop governor
Why? a little heat around 5-600 degrees F will unlock them.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
I used red Locktite - hope I don't ever have to take them out.
Stan Blanton
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com> |
I just spent the past weekend with an instructor getting my IFR proficiency
back to some level.
(I was no longer current)
My instructor filed (had me do it for him as he watched and listened) a
flight plan that the everyone from the FAA gladly accomodated (FSS, Tower,
ATC). I think part of it was that they WANTED something to do so as not to
get bored staring at empty screens ;-)!
Seriously, they we all most helpful GIVEN that I was on a bona fide IFR
plan. They knew EXACTLY where I was supposed to be (and was) at ALL times. I
must admit that I got a little bit jittery when they vectored me in the
direction of the home base for a whole gaggle of F-16's! All was cool
though.
Now I must ALSO say that they are SERIOUS! You are to monitor 121.5 and
brush up on Chapter 5.6 (I think)... as in intercept procedures. If you have
not, I suggest it .... just in case. The reason is we did in fact hear at
least one aircraft (a Bonanza) being instructed on 121.5 to LAND NOW! Don't
know if the F-16's scrambled or not as this was toward the end of my getting
"proficient" and I was politely "cleared for the ILS".
Bottom line: They really do mean NO VFR and they are very accomodating for
the few IFR GA planes that *are* up there. This was done on Saturday and on
Sunday.
James
Making sure I am up to snuff ... just in case.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: VFR concerns
just got back from my local FBO, i had 3 days scheduled to start my IFR
training, sat was scrubbed as all planes were kept down. this coming thurs
is scrubbed, but next sat is still on the books. any flights or training
flights must have an IFR flightplan filed, is what the manager told me. i
asked if the instructor would get the flight plan filed and we could go do
some training, but i think he was getting uncomfortable with the idea, and
probably made a phone call after i left.
he said he would contact me if sat would still be a go.
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)ipns.com> |
I wonder how a RV would look with 50 cal guns, and bomb racks...might
come in handy...HOPE NOT...seriously tho...has anyone put a belly tank
for gas on a RV?...
finished painting..almost
RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
Subject: | Re: OPT-1 Question/Problem (?) Long |
No, Randy, they check it across the temperature range with voltages on their
test bench. Yes, I will re-check the boiling water test with the new sensor
also.
Their tech man, very helpful and friendly, said that there is also a
possibility that the thermocouple wires could be at fault inasmuch as they
are described them as a bit 'brittle' in nature.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
> try 1500 wet sand & compound off with a glaze. I use ruber-Seal RS6 on
> base-clear coat. I don't know if that will work for the SW.
You can wet sand a single stage solid color but not a metallic. It cannot be
cut into at all. The metallic flakes show immediately. I tried wiping it
with gunwash thinner and it ruined the paint.
I chose a single stage paint as it is lighter in weight. The downside is
that it cannot be applied by an amateur. It needs a pro in a seriously clean
booth. What you shoot is what you get. No touch ups possible. If I were
doing it again I would go with a base coat clear coat two stage paint. It is
much more forgiving. Imperfections can be wet-sanded out. Scratches can be
buffed out later in life. I would attempt my own paint job with a two stage
paint.
More help needed, how can I get some splatters of oil based house paint off
my metallic Sherwin Williams Sunfire single stage paintjob?
Thanks, Norman Hunger
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Camille Hawthorne" <camillehawthorne(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: I spoke w/ AOPA this Morning about VFR |
Part 137 ops (agricultural) were reinstated and then revoked. What was the pointin
that? I'm a CFII who is anticipating a lean paycheck next month. And what
about the FBOs whosell avgas to GA aircraft? It's not likethese types of operations
canafford to takesuch a hit right now. These (myself included) people are
in the business because they love what they do. I would like to encourage everyone
to bediligent to support your local CFI/FBO etc. when the restrictions
are lifted.
Know how to make a million in aviation? Start with two million.
Camille Hawthorne
CFII, RV-7 wings
N5YR
-- RV-List message posted by: KBoatri144(at)aol.com
I called AOPA this morning to see what they could tell me about the
resumption of VFR flight. Here's the gist of the conversation:
1) When IFR was reinstated, it was suggested that it will help get VFR
reinstated if pilots behave. Don't be tempted to go VFR joy riding
until the
NOTAM is revoked. That sort of behavior will only delay things.
2) AOPA is unaware of any laundry list of items that "the powers that
be"
want changed before VFR is reinstated. This is a good thing.
3) AOPA hasn't been told (or at least isn't telling) what the decision
process is being used to decide when we get to go flying again. To me,
that
is a bad thing.
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | AV8TURDON(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Message to my representative |
I totally agree with what you say about FBO's and A&P's. I'm optimistic that
by the end of the week we will know something. If we don;t then we should
write to everyone that has anything to do with all this. As for your patience
Jim, your doing just great.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Carbon Hinge for Cowl |
In a message dated 9/17/01 1:48:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com writes:
<< I have been considering replacing the aluminum hinge on my -4 with
fiberglass hinge as soon as I start breaking eyelets. I am confused by
your conclusion that the fiberglass hinges are not worth the effort and
cost. Do you have some performance issues/data that you can share with us?
>>
Stainless steel hinge is readily available in the same sizes as the aluminum.
Available from McMaster-Carr (see Yeller Pages). For the one half of one
section on my plane that broke the aluminum ones, changing to the stainless
has solved the problem for the last 250 hrs.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Avionics-List: Printing Labels on Wire... |
In a message dated 9/17/01 2:04:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
bertrv6(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< I was planning to do same, but cannot find
clear heat shrink tubing, for the 18 gauges wires
I have mostly.
I found some clear, but is just plastic, does not
shrink at all, as is with the regular shrinking
tubing.
Any suggestions on this? >>
Both clear and standard resistor color code
(blk,brn,red,orn,yel,grn,blu,vio,gra,wht) shrink sleeving are available from
common sources of supply (Radio Shack, Digikey, Mouser, etc.). The normal
inexpensive stuff is just a single wall radiation crosslinked polyolefin that
will shrink 2:1. Other types are available that have a meltable inner liner
that will flow and seal and there are even some that will shrink 3:1. Better
grades of clear are available. Kynar polyvinylidene fluoride (PVF) is one of
the best for temperature and abrasion resistance but is somewhat more
expensive.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, rocket-list(at)matronics.com,
kolb-list(at)matronics.com, zenith-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com,
ez-list(at)matronics.com, lancair-list(at)matronics.com,
cessna-list(at)matronics.com, beech-list(at)matronics.com,
cadet-list(at)matronics.com, avionics-list(at)matronics.com,
pitts-list(at)matronics.com, homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com
From: | jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net> |
Subject: | Re: God Bless America Apparel |
Can any of well known list posters vouch for this guy and I don't mean one
of his friends. Unless someone we know on the list can vouch for him I
wouldn't provide my CC# to anyone coming a knocking without knowing
without knowing who your doing business and that it a
legitimate business. Anyone can put up a web page and look real.
jerryb
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: ClearProp1(at)aol.com
>
>
>
>
>Sure, I am planning on sending a dollar from every shirts sold to both the
>Fire Fighters Foundation and the Red Cross.
>
>A few responses have indicated that I did not give a way to purchase these
>items. Items can be purchased either over the phone, fax, or email by
>forwarding your name, address, phone number and credit card for purchases. Or
>you can send a check to:
>
>Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc.
>2731 SE Taiwinds Rd.
>Jupiter, FL 33478
>
>Items being sold are:
>
>White T-shirts
>Denim Blue hats
>White Polo Shirts
>Ash polo shirts
>
>All are beautifully embroidered with the American Flag and "God Bless
>America".
>
>Thank you for all your responses!!
>
>
>Scott Brown
>Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc.
>
>phone: 561-748-2420 Fax: 561-748-6980
>
>Visit us at www.six-shooters.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary Coonan" <gcoonan(at)home.com> |
What frightens me the most, is that the same logic that believes that
not allowing plastic knives and restricting curbside check-in equates to
safe skies are deciding how to ensure public safety in regard to VFR.
Monday (Sept. 10)I took a friend who has never been in a small plane for
a ride. The sun was setting over Nashville as we soared over outskirts
of downtown. My passenger was commenting on how beautiful the
silhouette of the city looked from our vantage point. As prophetic as
my next statement was, who could ever imagine that it could very well
come true. I said "the coolest thing about flying . . . is the freedom
of going anywhere we want."
I regularly take people for rides with no particular destination in
mind, just to experience the feeling of free flying, I hope this
freedom is not gone.
Being patient, but growing more and more concerned everyday.
Gary Coonan
Rockvale, TN
RV-7
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James E. Clark
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 9:33 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: VFR concerns
I just spent the past weekend with an instructor getting my IFR
proficiency
back to some level.
(I was no longer current)
My instructor filed (had me do it for him as he watched and listened) a
flight plan that the everyone from the FAA gladly accomodated (FSS,
Tower,
ATC). I think part of it was that they WANTED something to do so as not
to
get bored staring at empty screens ;-)!
Seriously, they we all most helpful GIVEN that I was on a bona fide IFR
plan. They knew EXACTLY where I was supposed to be (and was) at ALL
times. I
must admit that I got a little bit jittery when they vectored me in the
direction of the home base for a whole gaggle of F-16's! All was cool
though.
Now I must ALSO say that they are SERIOUS! You are to monitor 121.5 and
brush up on Chapter 5.6 (I think)... as in intercept procedures. If you
have
not, I suggest it .... just in case. The reason is we did in fact hear
at
least one aircraft (a Bonanza) being instructed on 121.5 to LAND NOW!
Don't
know if the F-16's scrambled or not as this was toward the end of my
getting
"proficient" and I was politely "cleared for the ILS".
Bottom line: They really do mean NO VFR and they are very accomodating
for
the few IFR GA planes that *are* up there. This was done on Saturday and
on
Sunday.
James
Making sure I am up to snuff ... just in case.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: VFR concerns
just got back from my local FBO, i had 3 days scheduled to start my IFR
training, sat was scrubbed as all planes were kept down. this coming
thurs
is scrubbed, but next sat is still on the books. any flights or training
flights must have an IFR flightplan filed, is what the manager told me.
i
asked if the instructor would get the flight plan filed and we could go
do
some training, but i think he was getting uncomfortable with the idea,
and
probably made a phone call after i left.
he said he would contact me if sat would still be a go.
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Perhaps some clarification of Norman's post might be helpful to builders
still contemplating the painting process (Norman, straighten me out if I
mis-characterize your comments).
A metallic paint, single or two stage, is much more challenging to the
paint novice than a non-metallic finish. Not only is it difficult to
repair as Norman found, but it requires much more care in application to
insure that the metallic particles are thoroughly mixed and suspended in
the paint pot and the paint is applied evenly. For the local builders
who seek my recommendations on paint, I strongly suggest they avoid
metallic paints if they have little painting experience. The stuff costs
more too! :-)
Many single stage non-metallic paints can very easily be wet-sanded for
repair, touch-up, and goof removal. I think Norman's comment "No touch
ups possible" refer to his experience with metallic paint.
As a general rule, two-stage (base coat/clear coat) finishes are more
difficult to repair than single stage non-metallic finishes.
However, two-stage finishes (metallic and non-metallic) can be
wet-sanded for a great finish as long as the sanding doesn't cut into
the base coat, and as long as the base coat was applied nicely.
So......if you have painting experience, go with whichever process
cranks your tractor. If you, like me, have limited paint experience, and
you want the most forgiving paint process, go with a single-stage
non-metallic finish.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, grounded until ???? or until I install the new IFR
EFIS-loaded panel.....you better get your instrument rating if you
haven't already............)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
===============------------------
Norman wrote:
>
>
> > try 1500 wet sand & compound off with a glaze. I use ruber-Seal RS6 on
> > base-clear coat. I don't know if that will work for the SW.
>
> You can wet sand a single stage solid color but not a metallic. It cannot be
> cut into at all. The metallic flakes show immediately. I tried wiping it
> with gunwash thinner and it ruined the paint.
>
> I chose a single stage paint as it is lighter in weight. The downside is
> that it cannot be applied by an amateur. It needs a pro in a seriously clean
> booth. What you shoot is what you get. No touch ups possible. If I were
> doing it again I would go with a base coat clear coat two stage paint. It is
> much more forgiving. Imperfections can be wet-sanded out. Scratches can be
> buffed out later in life. I would attempt my own paint job with a two stage
> paint.
>
> More help needed, how can I get some splatters of oil based house paint off
> my metallic Sherwin Williams Sunfire single stage paintjob?
>
> Thanks, Norman Hunger
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> |
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, kolb-list(at)matronics.com,
zenith-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com,
lancair-list(at)matronics.com, cessna-list(at)matronics.com,
beech-list(at)matronics.com, cadet-list(at)matronics.com,
avionics-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com,
homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: | Re: God Bless America Apparel |
OK, I take back the fact they don't have prices...I did find some prices on
the site for some school jerseys. My mistake. Still don't think this is the
forum to promote your business for profit, though.
Chris
Still cynical
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
I finally flew today for the first time since all this chaos. Despite
needing to go IFR, and despite specific admonitions that "pilots will not be
able to cancel IFR", it was a breeze. The controllers were helpful, if not
a little tense, and I was able to fly the visual approach 3 out of 4 times
(the instrument approach was actually necessary that one time). And as far
as I'm concerned, flying the visual is pretty much the same as cancelling
IFR -- in terms of how you end up flying. Arrivals don't really need to be
long, drawn-out processes.
Granted, only one of the normally 4 GA gates was open at John Wayne today.
At the one open gate, there was a sheriff inspecting everybody's IDs
(driver's & pilot's license) as well as the contents of the trunk. It only
took a few seconds.
Anyway, I encourage IFR capable pilots to get out there and exercise your
rights, exercise the system, and enjoy yourselves. Despite a hint of the
"am I doing something wrong?" feeling (and not being able to help
occasionally scanning for intercepting military jets), it's worth it to get
up there and do what we love to do, making a statement to anybody who's
watching that we're not going to stop flying just because some freaks of
morality took probability to the extreme. General aviation is the same as
it has always been...if we make it so.
Have fun, and FLY.
)_( Dan
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com
N747DC (RV-7 being built)
N201DD (Mooney 201 being flown)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: VFR concerns |
In a message dated 9/17/01 3:52:14 PM Central Daylight Time,
t.gummo(at)verizon.net writes:
<< www.senate.gov >>
Well just dispatched letters to my Representative and Senators. Just had to
vent. Feel better, Might do it again tomorrow. Abilene next week. Terry E.
Cole N468TC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Michel Gordillo" <michell(at)arrakis.es> |
Subject: | Re: Avionics-List: Printing Labels on Wire... |
Check at big electronic components stores. They do have clear retractable
self sticking tubes you can use even with gage as low as 22
It is expensive but worth. I used it in my avionics installation. Have a
look at www.rs-components.com
Michel
----- Original Message -----
From: "bert murillo" <bertrv6(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Avionics-List: Printing Labels on Wire...
>
>
> --- Cy Galley wrote:
> >
> >
> > If you use a "laser" type printer, water is not a
> > factor!!
> >
> > Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair,
> > Oshkosh
> > Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> > cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
> >
> > Cy:
> I was planning to do same, but cannot find
> clear heat=-shrink tubin, for the 18 gauges wires
> I have mostly.
> I found some clear, but is just plastic, does not
> shrink at all, altought is with the regular shrinking
> tubin..
> Any suggestions on this?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
08:29:27 AM
I've never painted or sanded a urethane metallic but I used to always wet
sand PPG Delstar Acrylic Enamel. That was a one stage paint and it would
wet sand and buff to a mirror shine. Shure know what you are talking about
with the color stripes (mottling) in a metallic job. Boy that can drive ya
nuts. It mostly comes from painting in a climate too cold for the reducer.
A cool way to get by it is to choke your gun down to just above a fog level
and each pass of the gun just move the gun down about an inch until at the
edge of the fan it will start to flow. In other words it takes about ten
passes to cover a foot. Your arm will fall off after doing an entire car
but man it sure looks good.
Eric
Sam Buchanan (at)matronics.com on 09/18/2001 01:00:46 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Help
Perhaps some clarification of Norman's post might be helpful to builders
still contemplating the painting process (Norman, straighten me out if I
mis-characterize your comments).
A metallic paint, single or two stage, is much more challenging to the
paint novice than a non-metallic finish. Not only is it difficult to
repair as Norman found, but it requires much more care in application to
insure that the metallic particles are thoroughly mixed and suspended in
the paint pot and the paint is applied evenly. For the local builders
who seek my recommendations on paint, I strongly suggest they avoid
metallic paints if they have little painting experience. The stuff costs
more too! :-)
Many single stage non-metallic paints can very easily be wet-sanded for
repair, touch-up, and goof removal. I think Norman's comment "No touch
ups possible" refer to his experience with metallic paint.
As a general rule, two-stage (base coat/clear coat) finishes are more
difficult to repair than single stage non-metallic finishes.
However, two-stage finishes (metallic and non-metallic) can be
wet-sanded for a great finish as long as the sanding doesn't cut into
the base coat, and as long as the base coat was applied nicely.
So......if you have painting experience, go with whichever process
cranks your tractor. If you, like me, have limited paint experience, and
you want the most forgiving paint process, go with a single-stage
non-metallic finish.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, grounded until ???? or until I install the new IFR
EFIS-loaded panel.....you better get your instrument rating if you
haven't already............)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
===============------------------
Norman wrote:
>
>
> > try 1500 wet sand & compound off with a glaze. I use ruber-Seal RS6 on
> > base-clear coat. I don't know if that will work for the SW.
>
> You can wet sand a single stage solid color but not a metallic. It cannot
be
> cut into at all. The metallic flakes show immediately. I tried wiping it
> with gunwash thinner and it ruined the paint.
>
> I chose a single stage paint as it is lighter in weight. The downside is
> that it cannot be applied by an amateur. It needs a pro in a seriously
clean
> booth. What you shoot is what you get. No touch ups possible. If I were
> doing it again I would go with a base coat clear coat two stage paint. It
is
> much more forgiving. Imperfections can be wet-sanded out. Scratches can
be
> buffed out later in life. I would attempt my own paint job with a two
stage
> paint.
>
> More help needed, how can I get some splatters of oil based house paint
off
> my metallic Sherwin Williams Sunfire single stage paintjob?
>
> Thanks, Norman Hunger
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
> My latest two axis camera ball is 10" in diameter and weighs
> 11 lbs.
> It is video only. Do you think I can get away without the aerodynamic
> counterbalance? I know there should be a speed restriction but where?
Hi Norman,
I have similar hard points for the same purpose - although mine will be
fixed.
I asked the same question of my Technical Counselor at my wing
pre-closing inspection - his concern was the same - asymmetrical drag.
He said I could probably get away without it until I ran out of rudder.
:\
I imagine that will be your limiting speed as well.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: VFR concerns |
snip>
my point being, someone has to control the population,
snip>
Ooooohhhhh! You're one of those!.......
I don't think you really ment that, or are you posting from an other
country?
Pat Perry
Dallas, PA
RV-4 N154PK Flew great!
Getting a little impatient...and worried the terrorists achieved the goal of
chipping away at our freedom.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
This has been discussed many times on the list and the consensus is that
30 cal. guns are better suited to the RV series. The 50 cal. recoil is
just a little to harsh on the small RV airframe.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
zenith-list(at)matronics.com
From: | Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
Subject: | God Bless America Apparel |
Scott Brown dba Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc. - Jupiter, Florida
Your recent scattershot spamming of the entire Matronics airplane type
listing is not a nice thing to do. The RV list, for example, is for
messages among RV people. Matt's rules of protocol for list use
specifically state that the list is not for commercial sales use.
If you want to capitalize on the sudden surge of "show the flag" sentiment
by selling dry goods, that is your decision. But please do not clutter up
all of the Matronics airplane lists with your spam of advertising. That
was not a nice thing to do.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Anyone know why? |
Has anyone heard a good explanation for the VFR restrictions?
I originally assumed it was to limit the untraceable routes of escape for
any of the terrorists associates but after one full week I can't believe a
VFR restriction is helping anyone. They could have swum to Cuba by now.
I am getting worried, there is no clear justification for the restriction.
Pat Perry
Dallas, PA
RV-4 N154PK Flew great!
I'm getting concerened.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bernard Banche" <bb8212(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | RV8a Empennage Kit for sale |
RV8A tail kit with plans for sale in the Columbus, Ohio area. The
kit is in excellent condition in the origional boxes. Parts have been
inventoried but the project has not been started. $1100.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com> |
I've kicked around the idea of a travel pod for my -6A, similar to what you
see on Long-EZs, etc.
However, after recent events and after seeing F-16s over my house numerous
times, I decided that anything hanging underneath a plane that might
resemble a weapon is probably a bad idea....
Cheers,
Brad
RV6AQ...
-----Original Message-----
From: old ogre [mailto:jollyd(at)ipns.com]
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 9:51 PM
Subject: RV-List: how would?
I wonder how a RV would look with 50 cal guns, and bomb racks...might
come in handy...HOPE NOT...seriously tho...has anyone put a belly tank
for gas on a RV?...
finished painting..almost
RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: VFR concerns--stand up and be counted |
Chuck,
Thats a brilliant idea. We should all fly on the 18th and the those of us who
surive can put our planes on the lawn and plant flowers in them, as that will
be the end of general aviation as we know it. Im not against a stand, but I'm
all for giving the AOPA and EAA and our government a little time to work
things out.
KEN
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: God Bless America Apparel |
doc
how can you flame just 1 individual, when many on this list advertize their
products here. andy gold, builders bookstore, steve? panel pilot, mike
knight, knight upolstery, george orndolf, seats & videos, just to name a
few,. its almost always rv related, and we support our rv community.just ones
point of view.
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com> |
Subject: | Anyone know why? |
How about several off the top of my head :
1) More predictable traffic: When you go VFR, no one in the ARTCC or TRACON
knows where you are going.
2) More security: Ashcroft has said that more attacks are a very real
possibility, given what evidence they have found. While a Cessna,
Cherokee, or RV wouldn't cause physical damage of the same magnitude as a
757, I suspect it would still a fair amount of psychological damage to the
nation.
3) Time: The FBI investigation is in full swing and is chasing down people
on commercial air traffic, trains, buses, etc. If another week helps, then
so be it.
Here's another point to consider: What if VFR traffic was suddenly allowed,
and a terrorist (or wannabe) takes off in a Cherokee and then intentionally
crashes it into something. You can bet your sweet a*s that that would be
the end of VFR GA. Again, given that more terrorism is possible, this is a
realistic scenario.
Given that our country has come under attack, given that our service men and
women will be put in harm's way in this war on terrorism, and given that
thousands of lives have been lost, it seems a little soon to be writing
legislators demanding that your VFR flying *privileges* be restored.
Finally if you really want to go flying, file IFR (grab a CFII or an
instrument rated friend if not rated) and go flying. Nobody is stopping you
from doing this, and you can go anywhere you want (TFRs and prohibited areas
excepted, of course).
Grabbing the Nomex...
Brad
RV6AQ underway...
-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Perry [mailto:pperryrv(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 8:38 AM
Subject: RV-List: Anyone know why?
Has anyone heard a good explanation for the VFR restrictions?
I originally assumed it was to limit the untraceable routes of escape for
any of the terrorists associates but after one full week I can't believe a
VFR restriction is helping anyone. They could have swum to Cuba by now.
I am getting worried, there is no clear justification for the restriction.
Pat Perry
Dallas, PA
RV-4 N154PK Flew great!
I'm getting concerened.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: VFR concerns |
pat
what i was referring to was, some people, beleive it or not, have no common
sense, and someone has to make rules to protect them, and the rest of us.
example, if it weren't for a rule stateing that you can't fly low over
densley populated areas, how many of us responsible pilots would be dive
bombing our friends house in the center of a major city? or like other
posters stating strapping on some armament to our rv's and have a hooting
good time. yes i believe we need some guidence, some rules, some
restrictions, some control over the general population, to keep everything in
check. the balance of it all is what is in question. we need extremist on
both sides of an issue to keep that balance. unless you have a better idea,
and i for one am willing to listen.
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: God Bless America Apparel |
In a message dated 9/18/2001 8:13:52 AM Central Daylight Time,
docshop(at)tds.net writes:
> Your recent scattershot spamming of the entire Matronics airplane type
> listing is not a nice thing to do. The RV list, for example, is for
> messages among RV people. Matt's rules of protocol for list use
> specifically state that the list is not for commercial sales use.
>
> If you want to capitalize on the sudden surge of "show the flag" sentiment
> by selling dry goods, that is your decision. But please do not clutter up
> all of the Matronics airplane lists with your spam of advertising. That
> was not a nice thing to do.
>
> Doc Mosher
> Oshkosh USA
>
Hate to say it Doc, but well you bombed every email list too. Scott is
building a F1 rocket so we know hes is building a plane, not sure about u.
But anyways, enough is enough
chris wilcox
oshkosh, wi
F1 rocket 4 sale
wanted to buy next fall f1 rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Sears" <sears(at)searnet.com> |
Subject: | Re: VFR concerns |
> I can't believe that you are demanding an organization to do things
> "Your Way" when you fail to support it by dropping out!!
>
Poor old Cy. He's been around the EAA so long that he's totally lost sight
of the real world. All one has to do is read the EAA web page and get the
flavor for what I'm talking about. I think I did the right thing by
dropping out. Working from within doesn't work. I tried that. With that,
I'll just stick with AOPA. I hope the rest of you will join me. The
organization needs our support. There is clout in numbers.
Jim Sears in KY
do no archive
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Jessen <jjessen(at)CMBINFO.com> |
Subject: | Anyone know why? |
Pat, et. al.
In times of extreme crisis, people shed complexity. The reason for the
shutdown is a seeming lack of control and a desire to get a handle on
things.
I, too, am worried about the long term consequences for GA, but I'm also not
surprised that they want to control the skies to the degree they know how.
Have they really got control of the skies? No. But it's one more act of
trying to simplify while they deal with other crises.
To many who do not know about flying, GA VFR is a luxury that can be put on
hold for awhile. They don't think (or care) about all the economic
consequences of those businesses that support us (AG and Corporate jets are
obvious businesses and have obvious clout, at least the latter, but are also
just as likely to be used for more acts of violence or escape routes...so no
sense there.) or about the symbolic and real freedoms flying represents.
I never thought that I would be addicted to anything like I am addicted to
flying and to building my own space/time machine. But I am not that
addicted that I cannot cut the government some slack during a time of
extreme crisis.
Shutting down VFR GA doesn't make any sense, but we'll get our air back.
Give these guys a couple weeks to catch their breath. In the meantime, I'm
calling up my CFI and starting my IFR lessons. His family was recently
blessed with another mouth to feed, so I'm going to help make sure he stays
economically busy.
Just 2 cents worth...
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Perry [mailto:pperryrv(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 9:38 AM
Subject: RV-List: Anyone know why?
Has anyone heard a good explanation for the VFR restrictions?
I originally assumed it was to limit the untraceable routes of escape for
any of the terrorists associates but after one full week I can't believe a
VFR restriction is helping anyone. They could have swum to Cuba by now.
I am getting worried, there is no clear justification for the restriction.
Pat Perry
Dallas, PA
RV-4 N154PK Flew great!
I'm getting concerened.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | TwoAviators <TwoAviators(at)lexcominc.net> |
All,
I am installing canopy, and so far only thing shattered are my nerves. I
have drilled the rivet holes, and can forsee the problems holding the
canopy in alignment while drilling the canopy skirt. I would like to
proseal or RTV the canopy to the frame, and then locate holes for skirt.
When I finish rivet the skirt I'd like to proseal it on too. Has anyone
done this? Has anyone not done this?
Thanks
Dan Ward
RV8 N417SN
Fitting canopy, nose cowling, wheel pants, about half finished.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | AV8TURDON(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Has anyone seen her? |
Rv'rs,
Has anyone seen or heard from Jean Garvey? The leader of the Federal
Aviation Administration of the free world. To advise and inform those who
fly as what and where we are going. I haven't, and I would sure like to. It
would comfort me greatly to see my leader. I've seen everyone else all the
way to the President. Does anyone know where she is? Please help me I feel so
alone. In my quest to return to the sky.
Maybe the EAA knows where she is. I haven't heard from them yet also.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
Subject: | Re: PROCRASTINATORS UNITE |
Just went to the website and joined. I was going to wait until my RV-7 was
finished to join the AOPA but this issue is more important than insurance,
and financing plans, so I joined today.
Phil Birkelbach
RV-7 - N727WB (Reserved) - Wings
Houston, Texas
http://www.myrv7.com
God Bless America
----- Original Message -----
From: <Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 8:47 AM
Subject: RV-List: PROCRASTINATORS UNITE
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> My name is Eric, and I'm a lazy procrastinator. I'm building an airplane
> and it sucks cash like a bad crack habit. Everyone tells me it will be
> worth it and to keep going because the "grinning" stage is so worth it.
> After almost nine years of building I find that it could be possible that
I
> might not be allowed to get to the grinning stage. It could come to pass
> that I could be financially prevented from being able to "grin" and afford
> food at the same time (thanks John McCain, arrogant ring knocker).
>
> So today I finally got off my butt and joined AOPA, yes I know I'm an
> experimental guy but I just don't see the EAA really being in the ring
> fighting for our rights. That credit goes unquestionably to the AOPA. I
> just feel the EAA has several other agendas and their efforts are kind of
a
> "me too" statement. The fact that we have one direct point of
communication
> with the government (Phil Boyer) pretty much convinces me that if it were
> not for the efforts of the AOPA my chances of ever affordably flying my
> aircraft would be diminished a great deal.
>
> I don't pretend to know what's going on here. Could be the government is
> just temporarily slowing things down until they can slowly lift the heavy
> hand and allow people to move again. Or could be that they want the
> training facilities to fail so the terrorist can't get trained; here that
> is. I really believe that Senator McCains' group thinks aviation should be
> for airlines and the military boys. Seems pretty obvious that's the way he
> thinks. There is no question, our rights as pilots are in question now.
>
> Anyway, if you are a procrastinator like me. And have always been torn
> between the AOPA membership and that cool tool from Avery's that could
> really help on your project. Now would be the time to step up and call the
> AOPA (800-USA-AOPA) and lend your support to Phil Boyer. It could turn out
> that you won't need the Avery tool as your RV-8 kit will make a really
cool
> salad bar down at the local restaurant. Its only $40.00 and you get a cool
> hat to boot.
>
> So this is my Jerry Lewis telethon type challenge, If you want to fly some
> time in the future, and you don't belong to the AOPA, I'm calling you out
> in the street. You are doing it for yourself. Ya can almost hear Jerry
> sing:
>
> " Look at him he's flyin, John McCain is cryin
> Imagine recreational pilots everywhere........
>
> It's your future dude.
>
> Eric Henson
>
> By the way, if any of you are on other lists or aviation groups, could you
> please forward this to those lists.
> Thanks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
> Has anyone put a belly tank for gas on a RV?...
This was discussed (maybe found in the archives) and it was generally
decided it WOULD be like carrying a small bomb. Not for civilian aircraft.
It would be OK if you always landed where you wanted. If you happened to sit
down in the rocks......well, you can imagine. In a jet, you can punch out.
Couldn't you fashion some sort of release for the tank? Sure. More weight,
more complexity, one more thing on your emergency check list, and, if it
didn't release, you are still sitting on top of a little bomb.
I think, unless you are crossing vast distances of uncharted teritory, that
the amount of gas these aircraft carry is just about enough. I have a 2-3
hour butt, and need to get out and walk around anyway. Besides, you meet the
nicest people at airports. If we could only go there.
IMHO
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
REALLY wanting to get in the air. I won't do anything bad. Honest. Just let
me show you. I mostly just go up to be up, you know. Say, have you ever been
up in an RV? Howzabout we go up...............
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
Subject: | VFR concerns--stand up and be counted |
When I said to support our government I meant exactly that--a reasonable
amount of time would not be Sept 18 which is why I said -- not soon -- so
what I mean is at the point no explanation has been given, no timetable
given, that we are swept from the sky -- then it will be time for organized
civil disobedience but ONLY after all other reasonable options are exhausted.
When would that be---I do not know or propose to know--the aviation community
will have to get together and decide when that would be. Civil disobedience
works when organized and properly used but we are not---NOT---at that time
yet. Let's stay calm and focused on getting our privileges returned fairly
and timely through the normal channels first. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: VFR concerns |
Scott,
I agree, the rules and procedures for all of us to follow are there for a
reason. Most of them are there for our safety and the safety of others.
I get very concerned when I see rules with no reason other than control. I
would like to hear the security risks my aircraft imposes on the rest of the
system. Brad and John brought up some things I haven't thought of. This
helps me, and probably others, understand how the entire air system and
national security system works and why our RV's pose a problem.
I'll wait without protest as long as there are reasons. I would be very
happy if I could hear the reasons from the authorities that impose the
rules/restrictions. Their silence bothers me. If it continues I will use
my next voting opportunity to help remove those authorities and will send my
lobbying dollars to the right organizations with my point of view.
In the mean time this is a good opportunity to improve our planes, make some
safety checks and get that annual done. Make that modification you were
putting off til later. My cowl has been off since Wednesday and the plane
will be better for it, mixture cable adjusted, chaffing in-check, everything
snugged down.
Your post had an unsettling tone which was probably not intended, I wanted
to point it out. Unwarranted control is what's wrong with other nations,
not ours...yet!
I hope it never is.
Please dont take my reply to your post in a negative way.
Pat Perry
Dallas, PA
RV-4 N154PK Flew great!
Waiting and wondering.
________________________________________________________________________________
To say nothing of a release mechanism that might malfunctioned over a populated
area and permanently ground all homebuilts. Or a ramp check by an overzealous
FAA inspector, could have you spending a couple of days explaining what you were
intending to do with the Napalm container on your belly.
No flame intended , just trying to point out that this is going to be a new
world for us, and hopefully when we are once again allowed to fly, we are going
to have to be a lot more careful of OTHER peoples perception of our little
airplanes.
Dianne and I really miss flying, but we are willing to give our government a
little more time to sort things out. But it would be really nice if they gave us
some kind of timetable. Of coarse then the nut cases would know when they could
crawl back out from under their rocks.
Garry "Casper" Still waiting,
KostaLewis wrote:
>
> > Has anyone put a belly tank for gas on a RV?...
>
> This was discussed (maybe found in the archives) and it was generally
> decided it WOULD be like carrying a small bomb. Not for civilian aircraft.
> It would be OK if you always landed where you wanted. If you happened to sit
> down in the rocks......well, you can imagine. In a jet, you can punch out.
> Couldn't you fashion some sort of release for the tank? Sure. More weight,
> more complexity, one more thing on your emergency check list, and, if it
> didn't release, you are still sitting on top of a little bomb.
>
> I think, unless you are crossing vast distances of uncharted teritory, that
> the amount of gas these aircraft carry is just about enough. I have a 2-3
> hour butt, and need to get out and walk around anyway. Besides, you meet the
> nicest people at airports. If we could only go there.
>
> IMHO
>
> Michael
> RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
> REALLY wanting to get in the air. I won't do anything bad. Honest. Just let
> me show you. I mostly just go up to be up, you know. Say, have you ever been
> up in an RV? Howzabout we go up...............
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Anthony J Castellano <tcastella(at)juno.com> |
Does anyone have a Narco Nav 122 or Nav 122D that they wish to sell?
Please respond to me direct or phone (845) 227-8527.
Tony Castellano
tcastella(at)juno.com
Hopewell Junction, NY
RV-6 N401TC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
Subject: | Re: VFR concerns |
Just a few facts and questions.
The FBI has looked over all of The Ohio State University flight school
training records. Who was trained, what were their names and addresses,
what did they look like, how did they pay for their training, what training
did they get?...........just a start............and this was only ONE
flight school.
All this information needs to be verified.
How much damage can a small (twin) airplane full of plastic explosives do?
Can four jetliners be hijacked simultaneously and cause any significant
amount of damage in the US?
Can biological weapons be sprayed from a small aircraft?
Do you know everyone ELSE who would resume flying if VFR restrictions are
lifted.
Just a few questions that a little over a week ago seemed very
improbable! AL
>
>Just got back from the local airport and heard some
>2nd hand complaints about crop dusters having to
>disable there spray equipment, maybe some one has the
>striaght scoop on this.
> Joe
>RV6A O360 cp
>do not archieve
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 09/18/2001 2:31:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
dan(at)rvproject.com writes:
> I encourage IFR capable pilots to get out there and exercise your
> rights, exercise the system, and enjoy yourselves.
General aviation is the same as
> it has always been...if we make it so.
Oh, so VFR-only airplanes and pilots are not part of GA. I _knew_ I was
missing a piece of this puzzle. NOW I get it!
________________________________________________________________________________
I to had the opportunity to fly this weekend. Flew with a VFR pilot from
Hayward, Ca to his home base at San Diego Gillespie. Returned with another
VFR pilot trying to get home to Hayward.
You VFR pilots grab an instrument rated pilot and go flying. Let him show
you how flying IFR is not so much flying on the gauges as it is knowing the
INSTRUMENT FLIGHT RULES "IFR".
For you California pilots I heard ATC give an airplane "Cleared the visual
Harris Ranch". So it looks like we can still go for the $100.00 Hamburger if
we use the system.
Cash Copeland
RV6 Hayward, Ca
In a message dated 9/17/2001 11:31:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
dan(at)rvproject.com writes:
>
>
> I finally flew today for the first time since all this chaos. Despite
> needing to go IFR, and despite specific admonitions that "pilots will not be
> able to cancel IFR", it was a breeze. The controllers were helpful, if not
> a little tense, and I was able to fly the visual approach 3 out of 4 times
> (the instrument approach was actually necessary that one time). And as far
> as I'm concerned, flying the visual is pretty much the same as cancelling
> IFR -- in terms of how you end up flying. Arrivals don't really need to be
> long, drawn-out processes.
>
> Granted, only one of the normally 4 GA gates was open at John Wayne today.
> At the one open gate, there was a sheriff inspecting everybody's IDs
> (driver's & pilot's license) as well as the contents of the trunk. It only
> took a few seconds.
>
> Anyway, I encourage IFR capable pilots to get out there and exercise your
> rights, exercise the system, and enjoy yourselves. Despite a hint of the
> "am I doing something wrong?" feeling (and not being able to help
> occasionally scanning for intercepting military jets), it's worth it to get
> up there and do what we love to do, making a statement to anybody who's
> watching that we're not going to stop flying just because some freaks of
> morality took probability to the extreme. General aviation is the same as
> it has always been...if we make it so.
>
> Have fun, and FLY.
>
> )_( Dan
> dan(at)rvproject.com
> http://www.rvproject.com
> N747DC (RV-7 being built)
> N201DD (Mooney 201 being flown)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Anyone know why? |
In a message dated 09/18/2001 1:00:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
bbenson(at)trane.com writes:
> IFR flights are happening all the time, and only people who are
> not flying right now are those who do not have an instrument ticket and not
> not willing or able to take a CFII or instrument-rated friend along.
You forgot to mention those unwilling to buy a commercial airline ticket and
buckle in for a "flight."
SOME OF US built our little ships with no provision for IFR, and we did so on
purpose. If I wanted to bore a hole in clouds under constant government
supervision from point A to point B with no freedom to do anything but, then
I would fly IFR somehow, some way. To me, that's not flying. I'd just as
soon park my self in front of a good flight sim program: just as challenging
and no risk!
The narrowness of your thinking here truly boggles my (grounded little VFR)
mind.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com> |
Subject: | Anyone know why? |
???
Perhaps you're made of money, or perhaps you've never priced the boxes you
need to fly IFR?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Benson, Bradley [mailto:bbenson(at)trane.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 12:01 PM
> To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Anyone know why?
>
>
>
>
> By eliminating VFR flight, they've made it easier to detect
> those who might
> try what you suggest from a 'local' airport. If they see a
> blip pop up on
> their radar, and it's not on an IFR plan, they know instantly
> that something
> is wrong. That seems perfectly logical to me.
>
> Also, your argument about keeping people away from the airports is not
> accurate - IFR flights are happening all the time, and only
> people who are
> not flying right now are those who do not have an instrument
> ticket and not
> not willing or able to take a CFII or instrument-rated friend
> along. Besides
> that, I doubt that few (if any) of the usual hanger rats I
> know would be
> able to stop someone bent on taking off. They are too busy
> arguing about
> tail vs. nose wheels, which primer to use, etc. :-).
>
> Additionally, to say that grounding VFR pilots is the worst
> thing the govt.
> is doing seems is overstating the matter a little bit. I can
> think of a
> number of things that affect a *LOT* more people in *MUCH*
> more serious ways
> that need some attention - Social Security, School of the Americas (or
> whatever it is called now), etc.
>
> Cheers,
> Brad
> RV6AQ...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Starn [mailto:jhstarn(at)earthlink.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 10:48 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; Rocket List
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Anyone know why?
>
> IF and I say IF you were one of those guys that were thinking
> of flying a
> "small" plane into something and were as well heeled (lotsa
> bucks) as the
> WTC bombers, you would have purchased a plane before now.
> Parked it close to
> where you planned to die, take off and go do what you planned to do
> regardless of ANY restrictions. No it's us on the ground at
> airports all
> over this country that will stop this from happening. We all know the
> "profile" (I'm not known for one to be politically correct)
> of the bad guys.
> What FBO is going to hand over his keys to a nutcase?. WE
> the guys at the
> airport should be on allert, we are at war and the enemy is
> still among us.
> Keeping the good guys on the ground and away from the
> airports if the worst
> thing, IMHO, our goverment is doing. FAA has by its own
> actions eliminated
> its eyes and ears in the field at the local airports. We know
> that these
> guys were taking lessons, maybe IFR qualified. That means
> they can still fly
> but we can't. Keep the faith and stay allert. Do Not
> Archive KABONG
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
I'm changing my plans for a prop and now have a Catto composite
prop and 2 1/4" extension to sell. If you want to run one of
these props and have an O-320 160 hp engine, you can save 20+
weeks of waiting. My prop will be ready next week and I already
have the extension. Prop is $950.00 and extension is $175.00.
Shipping not included.
Greg Tanner
RV-9A
O-320 D1A
________________________________________________________________________________
VFR, Visual Flight Rules and IFR, Instrument Flight Rules are all about
rules. Learn the rules and play the game. I am not saying to go fly IFR
without being rated or with an appropriately equipped aircraft. If you can
find a rated pilot to fly with you and your aircraft properly equipped go
flying. If you are rated and your aircraft is not equipped do what is needed
to bring it into compliance. A Com Radio, Nav Receiver and Transponder could
be all that you need. I can see the day when all aircraft will be required
to have two way communications and a transponder as a minimum to fly VFR.
Cash Copeland
RV6 Hayward, Ca
In a message dated 9/18/2001 11:22:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
SportAV8R(at)aol.com writes:
> Oh, so VFR-only airplanes and pilots are not part of GA. I _knew_ I was
> missing a piece of this puzzle.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> |
I'm not IFR rated, as far as I know we can't fly IFR if we wanted to since
our airport does not have IFR approaches. FAA specifically stated IFR
ground to ground and NO pop-ups. I know radar can't see my plane until I'm
2000' AGL, the mountains block the pattern.
We arent flying because we can't (legally) not because we don't want to go
through the trouble of using the system.
Pat Perry
Dallas, PA
RV-4 N154PK may as well be at an airport on Mars!
>From: JusCash(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY
>Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:19:21 EDT
>
>
>I to had the opportunity to fly this weekend. Flew with a VFR pilot from
>Hayward, Ca to his home base at San Diego Gillespie. Returned with another
>VFR pilot trying to get home to Hayward.
>You VFR pilots grab an instrument rated pilot and go flying. Let him show
>you how flying IFR is not so much flying on the gauges as it is knowing the
>INSTRUMENT FLIGHT RULES "IFR".
>For you California pilots I heard ATC give an airplane "Cleared the visual
>Harris Ranch". So it looks like we can still go for the $100.00 Hamburger
>if
>we use the system.
>
>Cash Copeland
>RV6 Hayward, Ca
>
>In a message dated 9/17/2001 11:31:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>dan(at)rvproject.com writes:
> >
> >
> > I finally flew today for the first time since all this chaos. Despite
> > needing to go IFR, and despite specific admonitions that "pilots will
>not be
> > able to cancel IFR", it was a breeze. The controllers were helpful, if
>not
> > a little tense, and I was able to fly the visual approach 3 out of 4
>times
> > (the instrument approach was actually necessary that one time). And as
>far
> > as I'm concerned, flying the visual is pretty much the same as
>cancelling
> > IFR -- in terms of how you end up flying. Arrivals don't really need to
>be
> > long, drawn-out processes.
> >
> > Granted, only one of the normally 4 GA gates was open at John Wayne
>today.
> > At the one open gate, there was a sheriff inspecting everybody's IDs
> > (driver's & pilot's license) as well as the contents of the trunk. It
>only
> > took a few seconds.
> >
> > Anyway, I encourage IFR capable pilots to get out there and exercise
>your
> > rights, exercise the system, and enjoy yourselves. Despite a hint of
>the
> > "am I doing something wrong?" feeling (and not being able to help
> > occasionally scanning for intercepting military jets), it's worth it to
>get
> > up there and do what we love to do, making a statement to anybody who's
> > watching that we're not going to stop flying just because some freaks of
> > morality took probability to the extreme. General aviation is the same
>as
> > it has always been...if we make it so.
> >
> > Have fun, and FLY.
> >
> > )_( Dan
> > dan(at)rvproject.com
> > http://www.rvproject.com
> > N747DC (RV-7 being built)
> > N201DD (Mooney 201 being flown)
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)ipns.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Proseal canopy? |
on the first one I did the rivets...ugh!...crak!..on the next one I did the
rtv bit..I sanded the frame to bare metal, and rtv'd the canopy on
that....seemed to work fine...I then riveted the skirt on the frame, and ran
a fiberglass tape from the skirt to the plexiglas, and that's it...seems to
hold up well..the first one is flying now,with about 45hrs on it..so far no
complaints...seemed to pass the inspection...since I have done this a couple
more times, and it's worked out fine...good luck
TwoAviators wrote:
> --> RV8-List message posted by: TwoAviators
>
> All,
>
> I am installing canopy, and so far only thing shattered are my nerves. I
> have drilled the rivet holes, and can forsee the problems holding the
> canopy in alignment while drilling the canopy skirt. I would like to
> proseal or RTV the canopy to the frame, and then locate holes for skirt.
> When I finish rivet the skirt I'd like to proseal it on too. Has anyone
> done this? Has anyone not done this?
>
> Thanks
>
> Dan Ward
> RV8 N417SN
> Fitting canopy, nose cowling, wheel pants, about half finished.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
Subject: | VFR concerns--stand up and be counted |
KEN,
Work out WHAT!!! Hell I'm familiar with the enforcement mentality
(I've been fully sworn since 82). If.... you give up your right to privacy,
give up your right to speak, your right to "Keep & Bare Arms, your rights to
be free from Unreasonable Search & Seizure, I can guarantee you'll be
"SAFE". Yeah... RIGHT... just like we keep those poor suckers in
prisons/jails. Hell they don't have shit for rights, and someone (probably
everyone there) can come Screw them in the A-s almost anytime they want.
Don't fool yourself Ken, NO One can keep you safe. And giving up your
freedom to breath, speak, or FLY sure as HELL ain't gonna help.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: <Kdh347(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: RV-List: VFR concerns--stand up and be counted
>
> Chuck,
> Thats a brilliant idea. We should all fly on the 18th and the those of us
who
> surive can put our planes on the lawn and plant flowers in them, as that
will
> be the end of general aviation as we know it. Im not against a stand, but
I'm
> all for giving the AOPA and EAA and our government a little time to work
> things out.
>
> KEN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: VFR concerns |
>snip
How much damage can a small (twin) airplane full of plastic explosives do?
Can four jetliners be hijacked simultaneously and cause any significant
amount of damage in the US? Can biological weapons be sprayed from a small
aircraft? Do you know everyone ELSE who would resume flying if VFR
restrictions are lifted. Just a few questions that a little over a week ago
seemed very improbable
>snip
I don't disagree...but.
I looked in amazement as a large crowed gathered last night to watch a
baseball game. Of all things I thought would have to endure a temporary
restriction, large gatherings of people in open areas was top of my list.
Especially when the game can be televised!
This is low-hanging fruit for a terrorist. Like a woodchuck sticking his
head out of the hole!
The GA restrictions seem out of step when stadiums full of people are OK.
Pat Perry
Dallas, PA
RV-4 N154PK I'm about to lose my balance and fall from the soap box!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com> |
Subject: | Anyone know why? |
Well, I'm sorry that you can't fly at the moment. VFR flight will be back
soon, and in the mean time, do something else. I really can't understand
the narrow-mindedness (or selfishness, callousness, insensitivity, etc.) of
people who think that the first priority is to get VFR aircraft back in the
air.
By your description, your flying is purely for fun and recreation. Nothing
wrong with that - my flying fits that description as well. However, it is
just that - recreation. If you can do it within the current limitations
forced by the national emergency, great. If not, well, that's too bad. It
will get better, VFR will be back.
Brad
RV6AQ...
-----Original Message-----
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com [mailto:SportAV8R(at)aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Anyone know why?
In a message dated 09/18/2001 1:00:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
bbenson(at)trane.com writes:
> IFR flights are happening all the time, and only people who are
> not flying right now are those who do not have an instrument ticket and
not
> not willing or able to take a CFII or instrument-rated friend along.
You forgot to mention those unwilling to buy a commercial airline ticket and
buckle in for a "flight."
SOME OF US built our little ships with no provision for IFR, and we did so
on
purpose. If I wanted to bore a hole in clouds under constant government
supervision from point A to point B with no freedom to do anything but, then
I would fly IFR somehow, some way. To me, that's not flying. I'd just as
soon park my self in front of a good flight sim program: just as challenging
and no risk!
The narrowness of your thinking here truly boggles my (grounded little VFR)
mind.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
Yep, I'm willing to listen... But they ain't said anything rational nor
logical yet!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: VFR concerns
>
> pat
> what i was referring to was, some people, beleive it or not, have no
common
> sense, and someone has to make rules to protect them, and the rest of us.
> example, if it weren't for a rule stateing that you can't fly low over
> densley populated areas, how many of us responsible pilots would be dive
> bombing our friends house in the center of a major city? or like other
> posters stating strapping on some armament to our rv's and have a hooting
> good time. yes i believe we need some guidence, some rules, some
> restrictions, some control over the general population, to keep everything
in
> check. the balance of it all is what is in question. we need extremist on
> both sides of an issue to keep that balance. unless you have a better
idea,
> and i for one am willing to listen.
> scott
> tampa
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Proseal canopy? |
Dave and I used sem-weld (generic proseal) in the tubes and it has worked
well. We drilled out the holes in the canopy with a #40 bit and then opened
them up with a unitbit. We matched drilled the few holes on the skirt on the
side (not the rear). We laid a bead of sem-weld on the frame and used clecos
in the drilled holes (except for 4 ACCQP alum rivets) to hold the canopy to
the frame. The shirt was attached the same way. The extra holes in the skirt
were filled when we painted it. So far (16 hours) no problems and have not
seen any indications of stress on any area of the canopy.
Good Building,
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (16 hrs)
Niantic, CT
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "jim hurd" <hurd(at)boernenet.com> |
> You VFR pilots grab an instrument rated pilot and go flying
OK, I know I can get clearance for an IFR departure out of my
non-approved-approach airfield. And (in severe clear) I'll probably get
direct routing. Now how do I get back? Don't I have to file the return to
a destination with an approved approach to get the IFR clearance? Sure
don't want to count on the kindness of a controller letting me amend in-air.
Or pulling some stunt like saying I have a rough engine and need to, "get
down right about here."
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
This from AOPA's website:
Meeting to discuss VFR operations rescheduled for this afternoon
9/18/01 3:41:46 PM - A morning meeting that was supposed to discuss VFR
operations was rescheduled to 3 p.m. this afternoon. VFR operations are
still prohibited everywhere except Alaska. (see story
<http://www.aopa.org/page_2.html> .) National security officials have not
indicated when they might make a decision on restoring some VFR operations.
Can any aviators in Alaska confirm that VFR is okay up there? If so, I'm
moving!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Helms" <jhelms(at)i1.net> |
Subject: | Re: VFR concerns |
Stadiums full of people with fast movers flying overhead and every radar
blip that is not on an IFR plan (and on course) being forced down...
2 cents
John "JT" Helms
RV Insurer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: VFR concerns
>snip
How much damage can a small (twin) airplane full of plastic explosives do?
Can four jetliners be hijacked simultaneously and cause any significant
amount of damage in the US? Can biological weapons be sprayed from a small
aircraft? Do you know everyone ELSE who would resume flying if VFR
restrictions are lifted. Just a few questions that a little over a week ago
seemed very improbable
>snip
I don't disagree...but.
I looked in amazement as a large crowed gathered last night to watch a
baseball game. Of all things I thought would have to endure a temporary
restriction, large gatherings of people in open areas was top of my list.
Especially when the game can be televised!
This is low-hanging fruit for a terrorist. Like a woodchuck sticking his
head out of the hole!
The GA restrictions seem out of step when stadiums full of people are OK.
Pat Perry
Dallas, PA
RV-4 N154PK I'm about to lose my balance and fall from the soap box!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Andy <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
Just a thought. Does one need an instrument "license" to file an IFR flight plan
in VMC conditions?
Andy
> Let him show
> you how flying IFR is not so much flying on the gauges as it is knowing the
> INSTRUMENT FLIGHT RULES "IFR".
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
As our way of taking part, Builder's Bookstore and eCharts is now donating 10%
of every order to the American Red Cross to aid those affected by the
recent tragedies. Every order counts. To take part anonymously you need do
nothing. If however, you would like your name included with a
list of contributors presented to the Red Cross along with our donation,
please say so in the special instructions box on the on-line order
form. Also, if you would like to donate an additional amount, please
state that amount in the special instructions box.
We will keep this going at least through the end of September; longer if the
need still persists.
Thank you for your participation.
Andy Gold
Builder's Bookstore
http://buildersbooks.com
eCharts
http://eCharts.cc
1 800 780 4115
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Jessen <jjessen(at)CMBINFO.com> |
Well....
Every U down in Uville liked U.S. a lot,
But the Binch, who lived Far East of Uville, did not.
The Binch hated U.S! the whole U.S. way!
Now don't ask me why, for nobody can say,
It could be his turban was screwed on too tight.
Or the sun from the desert had beaten too bright
But I think that the most likely reason of all
May have been that his heart was two sizes too small.
But, Whatever the reason, his heart or his turban,
He stood facing Uville, the part that was urban.
"They're doing their business," he snarled from his perch.
"They're raising their families! They're going to church!
They're leading the world, and their empire is thriving,
I MUST keep the S's and U's from surviving!"
Tomorrow, he knew, all the U's and the S's,
Would put on their pants and their shirts and their dresses,
They'd go to their offices, playgrounds and schools,
And abide by their U and S values and rules,
And then they'd do something he liked least of all,
Every U down in U-ville, the tall and the small,
Would stand all united, each U and each S,
And they'd sing Uville's anthem, "God bless us! God bless!"
All around their Twin Towers of Uville, they'd stand,
and their voices would drown every sound in the land.
"I must stop that singing," Binch said with a smirk,
And he had an idea-an idea that might work!
The Binch stole some U airplanes in U morning hours,
And crashed them right into the Uville Twin Towers.
"They'll wake to disaster!" he snickered, so sour,
"And how can they sing when they can't find a tower?"
The Binch cocked his ear as they woke from their sleeping,
All set to enjoy their U-wailing and weeping,
Instead he heard something that started quite low,
And it built up quite slow, but it started to grow-
And the Binch heard the most unpredictable thing...
And he couldn't believe it-they started to sing!
He stared down at U-ville, not trusting his eyes,
What he saw was a shocking, disgusting surprise!
Every U down in U-ville, the tall and the small,
Was singing! Without any towers at all!
He HADN'T stopped U-Ville from singing! It sung!
For down deep in the hearts of the old and the young,
Those Twin Towers were standing, called Hope and called Pride,
And you can't smash the towers we hold deep inside.
So we circle the sites where our heroes did fall,
With a hand in each hand of the tall and the small,
And we mourn for our losses while knowing we'll cope,
For we still have inside that U-Pride and U-Hope.
For America means a bit more than tall towers,
It means more than wealth or political powers,
It's more than our enemies ever could guess,
So may God bless America! Bless us! God bless!
John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
As our way of taking part, Builder's Bookstore and eCharts is now donating 10%
of every order to the American Red Cross to aid those affected by the
recent tragedies. Every order counts. To take part anonymously you need do
nothing. If however, you would like your name included with a
list of contributors presented to the Red Cross along with our donation,
please say so in the special instructions box on the on-line order
form. Also, if you would like to donate an additional amount, please
state that amount in the special instructions box.
We will keep this going at least through the end of September; longer if the
need still persists.
Thank you for your participation.
Andy Gold
Builder's Bookstore
http://buildersbooks.com
eCharts
http://eCharts.cc
1 800 780 4115
________________________________________________________________________________
Yes, to be legal on has to have an instrument rating and be current.
Cash
In a message dated 9/18/2001 1:46:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com writes:
>
> Just a thought. Does one need an instrument "license" to file an IFR
> flight plan
> in VMC conditions?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Sally and George" <aeronut58(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Proseal canopy? |
Dan:
I riveted my canopy per the plans and builder's manual. I endured much
angst and worry that I'd screw it up, but...it turned out to be easy and
everything was fine. The only slight negative that I can think of is that
the pop rivets that hold the skirt to the canopy frame required some extra
finishing to smooth everything off, but you'll have to do a lot of filling
and sanding on the fiberglass skirt anyway, so I'm not sure this is worth
worrying about.
Using proseal might work. Then again, after hundreds of hours and several
years in the hot sun it might possibly not be sufficient. The rivets have
been field tested and we know they work.
Just my experience/opinion.
George Kilishek
N888GK
Final .0001%
>From: TwoAviators <TwoAviators(at)lexcominc.net>
>Reply-To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV8-List: Proseal canopy?
>Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 11:27:19 -0400
>
>--> RV8-List message posted by: TwoAviators
>
>All,
>
>I am installing canopy, and so far only thing shattered are my nerves. I
>have drilled the rivet holes, and can forsee the problems holding the
>canopy in alignment while drilling the canopy skirt. I would like to
>proseal or RTV the canopy to the frame, and then locate holes for skirt.
>When I finish rivet the skirt I'd like to proseal it on too. Has anyone
>done this? Has anyone not done this?
>
>Thanks
>
>Dan Ward
>RV8 N417SN
>Fitting canopy, nose cowling, wheel pants, about half finished.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Helms" <jhelms(at)i1.net> |
FYI - I believe that they are not allowing ANY IFR amendments or
cancellations at all. I think it specifically says that in the notam.
Yes, just checked the site... it says "All flights must be IFR from takeoff
to touchdown -- airborne pickup of IFR clearances and in-flight cancellation
of IFR are not be permitted."
John "JT" Helms
NationAir Insurance
----- Original Message -----
From: "jim hurd" <hurd(at)boernenet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY
> You VFR pilots grab an instrument rated pilot and go flying
OK, I know I can get clearance for an IFR departure out of my
non-approved-approach airfield. And (in severe clear) I'll probably get
direct routing. Now how do I get back? Don't I have to file the return to
a destination with an approved approach to get the IFR clearance? Sure
don't want to count on the kindness of a controller letting me amend in-air.
Or pulling some stunt like saying I have a rough engine and need to, "get
down right about here."
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
Subject: | It's Okay... Relax... D.O.T. has the problem well in hand. |
Okay boys & girls... I feel reassured. D.O.T. has instituted their "Rabid
Response Team". How "Rabid" you may ask... Well they will have their
recommendations turned in by October 1, 2001. So "Relax"... let's all just
sit by quietly like the good submissive sheep we are and let them
"recommend" us nasty, pain in the neck, "Dangerous" VFR pilots out of
existence.
Okay, I guess I'll just have to spend mo money, update my bird to IFR,
update my A-s to IFR, and convince my co-owner of our dirt/grass strip to
fork out the bucks for an ILS and GPS approach (plus radar and whatever else
crap big brother dictates). Then I'll just periodically declare the "E"
word so I can flail around upside down (maybe a few spins, etc...) to get my
fuel system "un-clogged". I wonder if they'll catch on after a few years
or so.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Larry & Karen Gooding <GOODING(at)hargray.com> |
Subject: | Re: Anyone know why? |
Pat,
The explaination I heard had to do with a concern about germ warfare, how
easily something like smallpox or anthrax could be spread from a small
plane. Until the possibility is addressed, we may need to be a little
patient.
Karen Gooding
PA-17 PJ-3S
>
>Has anyone heard a good explanation for the VFR restrictions?
>
>I originally assumed it was to limit the untraceable routes of escape for
>any of the terrorists associates but after one full week I can't believe a
>VFR restriction is helping anyone. They could have swum to Cuba by now.
>
>I am getting worried, there is no clear justification for the restriction.
>
>Pat Perry
>Dallas, PA
>RV-4 N154PK Flew great!
>I'm getting concerened.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
However...if you can reach approach or center while on the ground, you can
definitely get your clearance that way. Last night, taking off out of MYF
at 9:40pm (40 minutes after the tower closed), I had to contact SoCal
approach (119.6) to get my clearance, and then again right before takeoff to
activate it. They gave me a 2-minute window to get off the ground. No
problem.
So, assuming your radio is strong and you can reach an ATC facility from the
ground, you're good to go.
I'm not positive, but I also believe that FSS might be able to give you your
clearance over the phone if you can't reach an ATC facility by radio. When
you file, they'll either give it to you themselves or transfer you to a
TRACON facility that will read you your clearance, complete with a valid
time and void time. This is how it's typically done from an uncontrolled
field (or a controlled class D airport after the tower is closed). This
constitutes a takeoff to touchdown clearance, despite the fact that you
don't make radio contact until airborne.
Don't quote me, though...who knows if they even give this style clearance
these days.
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Helms" <jhelms(at)i1.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY
>
> FYI - I believe that they are not allowing ANY IFR amendments or
> cancellations at all. I think it specifically says that in the notam.
>
> Yes, just checked the site... it says "All flights must be IFR from
takeoff
> to touchdown -- airborne pickup of IFR clearances and in-flight
cancellation
> of IFR are not be permitted."
>
> John "JT" Helms
> NationAir Insurance
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jim hurd" <hurd(at)boernenet.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 3:03 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY
>
>
> > You VFR pilots grab an instrument rated pilot and go flying
>
> OK, I know I can get clearance for an IFR departure out of my
> non-approved-approach airfield. And (in severe clear) I'll probably get
> direct routing. Now how do I get back? Don't I have to file the return
to
> a destination with an approved approach to get the IFR clearance? Sure
> don't want to count on the kindness of a controller letting me amend
in-air.
> Or pulling some stunt like saying I have a rough engine and need to, "get
> down right about here."
>
> Jim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | not rv related, but american |
Al and Friends,
I didn't find anything in that letter that would keep me from sleeping.
America or Americans have always been hit by terrorist. Admittingly this was
a much more noticeable event. It will continue in the future. If we give in
to their fear tactics, they won. I for one will not change any of my habits,
whether it is traveling, purchasing, recreational or anything else. I have
already in one week since the attack, noticed that my business is down 50%.
That shows me that the Americans confidence is down, and is unsure what will
happen next. But by thinking this way, they have started a chain of events;
they may not get stopped in time to save the economy, and our future as a
great nation. The reduction of sales in my business or the millions of other
businesses across America will reflect in a devastating manner. I will have
to lay off 4 people Friday. Other business will do the same or more,
unemployment will be rising, less people purchasing, fewer businesses make,
next week more layoffs and the cycle will continue to deteriorate, and we end
up like Russia. Broke, unemployed, homeless. The government is trying to
encourage consumer confidence, but the media is stifling their attempt. For
what, a better rating? No common sense on the media side as a country in
bankruptcy is news, and a new story, and a new story is a bigger rating.
We need to spread the word, GO UPON YOUR LIFE AS YOU DID BEFORE THE ATTACK ON
TUESDAY! If not, we lost the war.
Another point I would like to discuss is no one these days knows his or her
neighbors. The terrorist could be next door and you wouldn't even have a
clue. Back in my small hometown, everyone knew everyone, and if a stranger
moved in, everyone knew about it. It wouldn't be long before they would learn
who they were and what they are about, as they keep a secure community. If
everyone in America took the time to walk next door and get aquatinted with
their neighbors on both sides and across the street, it would be very easy to
put a list of suspects together. I say this because, the day after the
attack, my brother was looking out of his window at a house that was for
rent. He noticed a unmarked van pull up, and 4 men, whom he never saw before,
get out of the van, and unloaded 6 large green trash bags into the house. The
strangers were wearing some sort of turbines on their heads and loose sheet
like clothing. Obviously foreigners, but were they of the terrorist type? The
van disappeared after 2 days, and hasn't returned since. No telling what that
was all about, but my imagination leads me to believe, if they were
terrorist, they were on the run. Or perhaps since McDill AFB is 2 miles down
the road, maybe a meeting for an attack. My brother should have reported this
strange behavior at that time, but he didn't say nor do anything until they
were gone. The rent sign went back up as they left. I find that strange
enough to call someone to check it out, in light of what had happened a day
earlier.
We as American's need to be aware of our surrounding from now on. We have had
the luxury of not paying much attention of who was carrying what where. If we
paid more attention to the details, especially in a public place, I think we
could prevent any major happenings in the future. Obviously not all, but it
would definitely deter the person with ill intentions, if he knew everyone
was watching and questioning his actions. Special attention should be paid to
foreigners. I know it's a sad state of affairs, but Americans lives or at
stake. If the foreigners are innocent, they will not be offended or have
nothing to hide, as I'm sure the innocent ones would like to see this matter
go away, just as we Americans do.
So the 4 items I can identify as a solution in the short term is:
#1. Live life as you did before the attack last Tuesday.
#2. Get to know your neighbors, and if your neighbor is ill, or bedridden,
get to know their neighbors.
#3. Be aware of suspicious persons or objects from now on. Take extra time
to study what's going on around yourself, especially in public or government
places.
#4. Spread the word to do likewise. The more people who live by these means,
the stronger America will be.
There are probably many more things we can do, and am willing to receive any
input you might have.
I have always hated chain letters for their usually bogus in nature, but I
think I will turn this letter into a chain letter, because if it is passed on
to family and friends, we will all have good luck, and America will stand
strong again !
Pass this letter on to 10 friends or family members, heck send it to anyone
you know with a computer, the more people understand this the better.
Sincerely,
Scott Reviere
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
Subject: | Anyone know why? |
It is just as easy to spread germ warfare with a large weather balloon or
hot air balloon. There are billions of ways we, the American People, are
vulnerable. God forbid we try to gain a small amount of security by giving
up our FREEDOM. It just is not worth the price.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry & Karen Gooding <GOODING(at)hargray.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Anyone know why?
>
> Pat,
>
> The explaination I heard had to do with a concern about germ warfare, how
> easily something like smallpox or anthrax could be spread from a small
> plane. Until the possibility is addressed, we may need to be a little
> patient.
>
> Karen Gooding
> PA-17 PJ-3S
>
>
> >
> >Has anyone heard a good explanation for the VFR restrictions?
> >
> >I originally assumed it was to limit the untraceable routes of escape for
> >any of the terrorists associates but after one full week I can't believe
a
> >VFR restriction is helping anyone. They could have swum to Cuba by now.
> >
> >I am getting worried, there is no clear justification for the
restriction.
> >
> >Pat Perry
> >Dallas, PA
> >RV-4 N154PK Flew great!
> >I'm getting concerened.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
Just Nav, com and transponder? No gyros needed?
Finn
JusCash(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> VFR, Visual Flight Rules and IFR, Instrument Flight Rules are all about
> rules. Learn the rules and play the game. I am not saying to go fly IFR
> without being rated or with an appropriately equipped aircraft. If you can
> find a rated pilot to fly with you and your aircraft properly equipped go
> flying. If you are rated and your aircraft is not equipped do what is needed
> to bring it into compliance. A Com Radio, Nav Receiver and Transponder could
> be all that you need. I can see the day when all aircraft will be required
> to have two way communications and a transponder as a minimum to fly VFR.
>
> Cash Copeland
> RV6 Hayward, Ca
>
NetZero Platinum
Only $9.95 per month!
Sign up in September to win one of 30 Hawaiian Vacations for 2!
http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)redback.com> |
Subject: | Re: Anyone know why? |
No one can explain to me how these restrictions restrict a terrorist from
stealing a plane and doing exactly what you describe. As for making it
"harder" for them to do so, get real, anyone who could finance, plan, and
execute the attacks one week ago would have no problem figuring out how to
pull that scenario off....
RB
>
>Pat,
>
>The explaination I heard had to do with a concern about germ warfare, how
>easily something like smallpox or anthrax could be spread from a small
>plane. Until the possibility is addressed, we may need to be a little
>patient.
>
>Karen Gooding
>PA-17 PJ-3S
>
>
> >
> >Has anyone heard a good explanation for the VFR restrictions?
> >
> >I originally assumed it was to limit the untraceable routes of escape for
> >any of the terrorists associates but after one full week I can't believe a
> >VFR restriction is helping anyone. They could have swum to Cuba by now.
> >
> >I am getting worried, there is no clear justification for the restriction.
> >
> >Pat Perry
> >Dallas, PA
> >RV-4 N154PK Flew great!
> >I'm getting concerened.
> >
> >
>
>
Richard E. Bibb
Sr. Vice President, Worldwide Sales
Redback Networks
10780 Parkridge Boulevard, Suite 155
Reston, Virginia 20191
Direct: 703-860-7012
Main: 703-860-7000
rbibb(at)redback.com
Mobile: 703-627-0348
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Anyone know why? |
"and the pursuit of happiness."
Sounds like flying to me.
Barry POte RV9a fuselage (flower box)
> The government says it is a privilege, the PEOPLE say it is a right--that is
> where we differ. Not to argue -- now is the time for calm and cohesiveness
> and to support our government. I really worry though about the thousands of
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
Subject: | Anyone know why? |
Hmmmmm..... I wonder if the Feds are currently looking for some sort of
biological that might be floating around the country somewhere, perhaps in a
suitcase or something. Hadn't thought of that.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV (forever finishing)
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry & Karen Gooding [mailto:GOODING(at)hargray.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Anyone know why?
Pat,
The explaination I heard had to do with a concern about germ warfare, how
easily something like smallpox or anthrax could be spread from a small
plane. Until the possibility is addressed, we may need to be a little
patient.
Karen Gooding
PA-17 PJ-3S
>
>Has anyone heard a good explanation for the VFR restrictions?
>
>I originally assumed it was to limit the untraceable routes of escape for
>any of the terrorists associates but after one full week I can't believe a
>VFR restriction is helping anyone. They could have swum to Cuba by now.
>
>I am getting worried, there is no clear justification for the restriction.
>
>Pat Perry
>Dallas, PA
>RV-4 N154PK Flew great!
>I'm getting concerened.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 09/18/2001 8:23:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
finnlassen(at)netzero.net writes:
> . A Com Radio, Nav Receiver and Transponder could
> > be all that you need. I can see the day when all aircraft will be
> required
> > to have two way communications and a transponder as a minimum to fly VFR.
>
What a great time to buy a nav receiver (or start IFR training for that
matter) just as the days of VOR navigation are drawing to an overdue close.
VOR NAV? ...don't own one, used to own one, don't ever plan to own another
one.
As for the day when all VFR will be required to have comm and transponder
just to fly, you are probably right on, except it will likely be a mode-$,
with every aircraft squawking a discrete code from its firmware. Even so,
with the kind of flying I do, they will never see me most of the time. I can
show you valleys where a radar beam never thought of going...
Bill Boyd
RV-6A O-320/Sensenich FP
Hop-Along Air Field, 12VA
Clifton Forge, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
I read in the archives a suggestion that bolts could be placed in the
tie-down sockets on the wings and used to support the aircraft on jack
stands. Are the tie-down hardpoints built to take this concentrated load? I
have an Avery/Vetterrman axle jack adapter to lift the plane, but need all
the weight off the gear to accurately set incidence of the new wheel pants
and leg fairings, or so I am told. Would appreciate hearing from anyone who
has supported their 6A this way so I will know it's safe. Seems we all want
Guaranteed Safety about everything these days...
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
Subject: | Re: jacking safety |
>
> I read in the archives a suggestion that bolts could be placed in the
> tie-down sockets on the wings and used to support the aircraft on jack
> stands. Are the tie-down hardpoints built to take this concentrated load?
I
> have an Avery/Vetterrman axle jack adapter to lift the plane, but need all
> the weight off the gear to accurately set incidence of the new wheel pants
> and leg fairings, or so I am told. Would appreciate hearing from anyone
who
> has supported their 6A this way so I will know it's safe. Seems we all
want
> Guaranteed Safety about everything these days...
>
Those are the jack points. I've lifted my airplane (6) there many times.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Rusting
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Murphy, Richard James (Rick)" <rjmurphy1(at)lucent.com> |
A pilot must be instrument rated to file and IFR flight plan.
RJM----------
> From: Andy[SMTP:winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com]
> Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 3:00 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY
>
>
> Just a thought. Does one need an instrument "license" to file an IFR
> flight plan
> in VMC conditions?
>
> Andy
>
>
> > Let him show
> > you how flying IFR is not so much flying on the gauges as it is knowing
> the
> > INSTRUMENT FLIGHT RULES "IFR".
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Pro Seal on Canopy |
I had used pro seal on the edge to water seal the canopy on my last RV, and
it worked just fine leaving a thin edge seal between the aluminum or FG and
the glass. Paint will not adhere.
Ron Smith
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
You don't need an IFR approach to an airport to fly IFR. You can make a
visual approach to any airport on an IFR flight plan, then cancel IFR on the
ground via telephone to FSS.
Jerry Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY
>
> I'm not IFR rated, as far as I know we can't fly IFR if we wanted to since
> our airport does not have IFR approaches. FAA specifically stated IFR
> ground to ground and NO pop-ups. I know radar can't see my plane until
I'm
> 2000' AGL, the mountains block the pattern.
>
> We arent flying because we can't (legally) not because we don't want to go
> through the trouble of using the system.
>
> Pat Perry
> Dallas, PA
> RV-4 N154PK may as well be at an airport on Mars!
>
>
> >From: JusCash(at)aol.com
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY
> >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:19:21 EDT
> >
> >
> >I to had the opportunity to fly this weekend. Flew with a VFR pilot from
> >Hayward, Ca to his home base at San Diego Gillespie. Returned with
another
> >VFR pilot trying to get home to Hayward.
> >You VFR pilots grab an instrument rated pilot and go flying. Let him
show
> >you how flying IFR is not so much flying on the gauges as it is knowing
the
> >INSTRUMENT FLIGHT RULES "IFR".
> >For you California pilots I heard ATC give an airplane "Cleared the
visual
> >Harris Ranch". So it looks like we can still go for the $100.00
Hamburger
> >if
> >we use the system.
> >
> >Cash Copeland
> >RV6 Hayward, Ca
> >
> >In a message dated 9/17/2001 11:31:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> >dan(at)rvproject.com writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > I finally flew today for the first time since all this chaos. Despite
> > > needing to go IFR, and despite specific admonitions that "pilots will
> >not be
> > > able to cancel IFR", it was a breeze. The controllers were helpful,
if
> >not
> > > a little tense, and I was able to fly the visual approach 3 out of 4
> >times
> > > (the instrument approach was actually necessary that one time). And
as
> >far
> > > as I'm concerned, flying the visual is pretty much the same as
> >cancelling
> > > IFR -- in terms of how you end up flying. Arrivals don't really need
to
> >be
> > > long, drawn-out processes.
> > >
> > > Granted, only one of the normally 4 GA gates was open at John Wayne
> >today.
> > > At the one open gate, there was a sheriff inspecting everybody's IDs
> > > (driver's & pilot's license) as well as the contents of the trunk. It
> >only
> > > took a few seconds.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I encourage IFR capable pilots to get out there and exercise
> >your
> > > rights, exercise the system, and enjoy yourselves. Despite a hint of
> >the
> > > "am I doing something wrong?" feeling (and not being able to help
> > > occasionally scanning for intercepting military jets), it's worth it
to
> >get
> > > up there and do what we love to do, making a statement to anybody
who's
> > > watching that we're not going to stop flying just because some freaks
of
> > > morality took probability to the extreme. General aviation is the
same
> >as
> > > it has always been...if we make it so.
> > >
> > > Have fun, and FLY.
> > >
> > > )_( Dan
> > > dan(at)rvproject.com
> > > http://www.rvproject.com
> > > N747DC (RV-7 being built)
> > > N201DD (Mooney 201 being flown)
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
Yes, you must be instrument-rated, current and flying the proper equipment
to file IFR.
Jerry Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY
>
> Just a thought. Does one need an instrument "license" to file an IFR
flight plan
> in VMC conditions?
>
> Andy
>
>
> > Let him show
> > you how flying IFR is not so much flying on the gauges as it is knowing
the
> > INSTRUMENT FLIGHT RULES "IFR".
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Just trying to keep things simple. All a person needs to know is in FAR
91.205.
Cash
In a message dated 9/18/2001 5:22:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
finnlassen(at)netzero.net writes:
>
> Just Nav, com and transponder? No gyros needed?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
So, do I have the honor of having the newest airplane to be grounded? About
46 hours from first flight until grounded. Did Cessna or Cirrus put a new
one up Monday, or do I win the prize?
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A N66AP flew one day
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Richard McCraw" <rmccraw(at)wcvt.com> |
The equipment rules are in Part 91, I believe; gyros, comm and nav
requirements, etc. Plus, one must have the altimeter/static system and the
mode-c portion of the transponder certified by an avionics shop every two
years, the VOR receivers checked frequently (by you), ...
It gets a little involved.
Rick McCraw
Bonanza pilot, watching the RV world from ringside for now
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Subject: | required equipment for IFR in VMC in experimental aircraft |
Okay, I know this subject has been hashed out before, but........... I
can't get the archives to behave the way I want them to and this
question has relevance now that it hasn't had before.
Here's the deal; Suppose an instrument rated pilot who is not current
wanted to fly his experimental plane via an IFR flight plan in visual
meteorological conditions (VMC). What are the minimum equipment/pilot
requirements for this flight?
Repeat, here are the issues:
1) IFR rating
2) currency
3) VMC
4) experimental airworthiness certificate
5) minimum equipment required
I am interested in hearing from pilots who actually know what they are
talking about on this subject, not those who just think they know what
they are talking about. :-)
Any observations from those who have had actual contact with a DAR, a
FSDO, or field FAA official concerning this issue would be valued.
Yes, I have already read FAR 91.205 concerning aircraft with a standard
airworthiness certificate.
Opinions concerning the current state of the airspace are not relevant
to this inquiry.
Thanks in advance,
Sam Buchanan (RV-6)
"The RV Journal" http://www.home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Carbon Hinge for Cowl |
> No performance issues since my plane is still taking up valuable space in
> the garage. However, for $200 I'm not sure how much help they can be.
Is it the same price for the fiberglass ones as it is for the carbon fiber?
I wonder if the f-glass ones wouldn't be strong enough (and less likely to
cause corroded hinge pins)? If they're substantially cheaper it still might
be an option.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~290 hrs, plane back home in its hangar --
YAY!)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
Also, what I've been hearing a lot of lately is "notify us on frequency when
landing assured." This very well may be for the police choppers only, but
you never know.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N747DC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY
>
> You don't need an IFR approach to an airport to fly IFR. You can make a
> visual approach to any airport on an IFR flight plan, then cancel IFR on
the
> ground via telephone to FSS.
>
> Jerry Carter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 12:02 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY
>
>
> >
> > I'm not IFR rated, as far as I know we can't fly IFR if we wanted to
since
> > our airport does not have IFR approaches. FAA specifically stated IFR
> > ground to ground and NO pop-ups. I know radar can't see my plane until
> I'm
> > 2000' AGL, the mountains block the pattern.
> >
> > We arent flying because we can't (legally) not because we don't want to
go
> > through the trouble of using the system.
> >
> > Pat Perry
> > Dallas, PA
> > RV-4 N154PK may as well be at an airport on Mars!
> >
> >
> > >From: JusCash(at)aol.com
> > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > >Subject: Re: RV-List: FLY
> > >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:19:21 EDT
> > >
> > >
> > >I to had the opportunity to fly this weekend. Flew with a VFR pilot
from
> > >Hayward, Ca to his home base at San Diego Gillespie. Returned with
> another
> > >VFR pilot trying to get home to Hayward.
> > >You VFR pilots grab an instrument rated pilot and go flying. Let him
> show
> > >you how flying IFR is not so much flying on the gauges as it is knowing
> the
> > >INSTRUMENT FLIGHT RULES "IFR".
> > >For you California pilots I heard ATC give an airplane "Cleared the
> visual
> > >Harris Ranch". So it looks like we can still go for the $100.00
> Hamburger
> > >if
> > >we use the system.
> > >
> > >Cash Copeland
> > >RV6 Hayward, Ca
> > >
> > >In a message dated 9/17/2001 11:31:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > >dan(at)rvproject.com writes:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I finally flew today for the first time since all this chaos.
Despite
> > > > needing to go IFR, and despite specific admonitions that "pilots
will
> > >not be
> > > > able to cancel IFR", it was a breeze. The controllers were helpful,
> if
> > >not
> > > > a little tense, and I was able to fly the visual approach 3 out of 4
> > >times
> > > > (the instrument approach was actually necessary that one time). And
> as
> > >far
> > > > as I'm concerned, flying the visual is pretty much the same as
> > >cancelling
> > > > IFR -- in terms of how you end up flying. Arrivals don't really
need
> to
> > >be
> > > > long, drawn-out processes.
> > > >
> > > > Granted, only one of the normally 4 GA gates was open at John Wayne
> > >today.
> > > > At the one open gate, there was a sheriff inspecting everybody's IDs
> > > > (driver's & pilot's license) as well as the contents of the trunk.
It
> > >only
> > > > took a few seconds.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I encourage IFR capable pilots to get out there and exercise
> > >your
> > > > rights, exercise the system, and enjoy yourselves. Despite a hint
of
> > >the
> > > > "am I doing something wrong?" feeling (and not being able to help
> > > > occasionally scanning for intercepting military jets), it's worth it
> to
> > >get
> > > > up there and do what we love to do, making a statement to anybody
> who's
> > > > watching that we're not going to stop flying just because some
freaks
> of
> > > > morality took probability to the extreme. General aviation is the
> same
> > >as
> > > > it has always been...if we make it so.
> > > >
> > > > Have fun, and FLY.
> > > >
> > > > )_( Dan
> > > > dan(at)rvproject.com
> > > > http://www.rvproject.com
> > > > N747DC (RV-7 being built)
> > > > N201DD (Mooney 201 being flown)
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Fred Kunkel <rvator(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Anyone know why? |
Not to add to a controversy, but perhaps for the first time in a long time "not
knowing" could be a big part of the problem we're facing. The government is being
extremely close lipped about intelligence, tactics, etc. We're just not used to
that in an informational society where the "rights & best interests of the
individual" sometimes seem to outweigh the "rights & best interests of the
nation". A crop duster out of Bakersfield got cited last week when an AWACS
aircraft picked him up dusting crops - who would have thought of that & what
"freedom" was he exercising? Maybe, just maybe there's an additional threat(s)
that we don't know anything about. Don't think anyone's so naive to think that
it
couldn't happen again - & what would happen if the American public knew of
another major threat scenario? Maybe it's a simple way of indirectly
acknowledging & temporarily addressing the defects/inefficiencies in some of our
systems. In any case, the government seems to be taking pretty rational, thorough
measures to address the massive amount of issues at hand. We don't know which,
if
any, of our freedoms will be changed, so why speculate until we do? The focus
from all sides seems to be preserving those freedoms. Right now our thoughts &
prayers remain with those who have suffered, those who now serve, & those who
will soon be called upon to serve & protect our freedoms.
Semper Fi
Richard Bibb wrote:
>
> No one can explain to me how these restrictions restrict a terrorist from
> stealing a plane and doing exactly what you describe. As for making it
> "harder" for them to do so, get real, anyone who could finance, plan, and
> execute the attacks one week ago would have no problem figuring out how to
> pull that scenario off....
>
> RB
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: required equipment for IFR in VMC in experimental aircraft |
[snip]
> Suppose an instrument rated pilot who is not current
> wanted to fly his experimental plane via an IFR flight plan in visual
> meteorological conditions (VMC). What are the minimum equipment/pilot
> requirements for this flight?
>
> Repeat, here are the issues:
>
> 1) IFR rating
Required. Ref. FAR 61.3 (e)
> 2) currency
Required. Ref. FAR 61.57 (c)
> 3) VMC
Not a factor as far as I've ever been able to tell
> 4) experimental airworthiness certificate
Not a factor... usually. Some DARs/AIs have been known to specifically put
VFR ONLY in the operating limitiations but if yours is like most it will say
something like "VFR/Day only unless equipped for IFR/Night as required by
the FARs". Which means if you're so equipped, you're legal, or if you're not
so equipped now but do become so later, you'll be legal then. Bottom line:
the experimental cert. isn't a factor, but the operating limitations might
be.
> 5) minimum equipment required
Min. required for IFR flight. Ref. FAR 91.205
> I am interested in hearing from pilots who actually know what they are
> talking about on this subject, not those who just think they know what
> they are talking about. :-)
Sorry I'm probably the latter. But I am an IFR rated pilot who has studied
the regs pretty carefully. I have discussed the "IFR certification" issue
and how it applies to experimentals in the past with a number of people
including a DAR and an FAA AI.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~280 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com> |
Subject: | Anyone know why? |
AMEN Brad! You took the words out of my mouth.
NON RV SPECIFIC COMMENTS FOLLOW. DELETE OR MOVE ON IF NOT INTERESTED.
I for one *am* willing to wait this one out. Of course my RV is not ready to
fly but I do have a Champ that is grounded and a Piper Archer that I *can*
fly, just as you said, by filing IFR so they know exactly where I am
supposed to be and therefore when I am "deviating".
On the drive home from the airport, I did some "what if I were ... "
scenarios. I will not EVEN begin to mention what ways I came up with to do
damage at a time like this with my "little" airplane.
This thing is not over yet. And if giving up flying for a few weeks helps
the cause of America and those who have given and are giving a WHOLE LOT
MORE, then I for one am more than willing to do such a small part.
For those that feel a need to blame someone for encroaching on our
"freedoms", I say don't blame George W and the Administration. There is
someone else ahead of them in line on this one.
So let's (as pilots and builders) cut our leaders some slack as if we don't,
I envision things getting a LOT worse in response. I say again, I think they
are truly serious about protecting many (some unspoken) aspects of our
freedom.
James
... a pilot and builder who was not a "W" supporter who is backing our team
all the way on this one.
(and holding the fire extinguisher for Brad)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Benson, Bradley
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 10:55 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Anyone know why?
How about several off the top of my head :
1) More predictable traffic: When you go VFR, no one in the ARTCC or TRACON
knows where you are going.
2) More security: Ashcroft has said that more attacks are a very real
possibility, given what evidence they have found. While a Cessna,
Cherokee, or RV wouldn't cause physical damage of the same magnitude as a
757, I suspect it would still a fair amount of psychological damage to the
nation.
3) Time: The FBI investigation is in full swing and is chasing down people
on commercial air traffic, trains, buses, etc. If another week helps, then
so be it.
Here's another point to consider: What if VFR traffic was suddenly allowed,
and a terrorist (or wannabe) takes off in a Cherokee and then intentionally
crashes it into something. You can bet your sweet a*s that that would be
the end of VFR GA. Again, given that more terrorism is possible, this is a
realistic scenario.
Given that our country has come under attack, given that our service men and
women will be put in harm's way in this war on terrorism, and given that
thousands of lives have been lost, it seems a little soon to be writing
legislators demanding that your VFR flying *privileges* be restored.
Finally if you really want to go flying, file IFR (grab a CFII or an
instrument rated friend if not rated) and go flying. Nobody is stopping you
from doing this, and you can go anywhere you want (TFRs and prohibited areas
excepted, of course).
Grabbing the Nomex...
Brad
RV6AQ underway...
-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Perry [mailto:pperryrv(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 8:38 AM
Subject: RV-List: Anyone know why?
Has anyone heard a good explanation for the VFR restrictions?
I originally assumed it was to limit the untraceable routes of escape for
any of the terrorists associates but after one full week I can't believe a
VFR restriction is helping anyone. They could have swum to Cuba by now.
I am getting worried, there is no clear justification for the restriction.
Pat Perry
Dallas, PA
RV-4 N154PK Flew great!
I'm getting concerened.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Anyone know why? |
From: | "GREGORY GORDON" <Cosglo(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Dear Friends,
I am new to your list and but have just noticed the general complaints about
your restrictions upon your personal rights to fly your beloved aircraft in
your country's airspace since the senseless attack upon innocent people of a
great number of nationalities, just doing their job in New York. May I, as
an Australian, who has had the gift of receiving the hospitability, of some
United States friends, offer a little advice. One of your great presidents,
did suggest or words to the effect, "ask not what your country can do for
you, but what you can do for your country". I suggest that the majority of
Australians are behind you all, in supporting you in this hour of need; you
people supported Australia in our hour of need during the early days of
WW11. We now in return can offer the same support. Do not let the "bastards"
who ever they are, divide you and win. Remain united, with the support, of
alot of your friends world wide: and you will win and "put to bed this
common enemy". Should you need uncrowded air-space, please come to Sydney,
Australia. I would be happy to put a fellow flyer friend.
Kind regards,
Gregory Gordon. VH-LCX.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | joe wiza <jwiza1(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Anyone know why? |
Your forgetting terrorists are not allowed to file
IFR.
RV6A
--- Richard Bibb wrote:
>
>
> No one can explain to me how these restrictions
> restrict a terrorist from
> stealing a plane and doing exactly what you
> describe. As for making it
> "harder" for them to do so, get real, anyone who
> could finance, plan, and
> execute the attacks one week ago would have no
> problem figuring out how to
> pull that scenario off....
>
> RB
>
> Gooding
> >
> >Pat,
> >
> >The explaination I heard had to do with a concern
> about germ warfare, how
> >easily something like smallpox or anthrax could be
> spread from a small
> >plane. Until the possibility is addressed, we may
> need to be a little
> >patient.
> >
> >Karen Gooding
> >PA-17 PJ-3S
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > >Has anyone heard a good explanation for the VFR
> restrictions?
> > >
> > >I originally assumed it was to limit the
> untraceable routes of escape for
> > >any of the terrorists associates but after one
> full week I can't believe a
> > >VFR restriction is helping anyone. They could
> have swum to Cuba by now.
> > >
> > >I am getting worried, there is no clear
> justification for the restriction.
> > >
> > >Pat Perry
> > >Dallas, PA
> > >RV-4 N154PK Flew great!
> > >I'm getting concerened.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> Richard E. Bibb
> Sr. Vice President, Worldwide Sales
> Redback Networks
> 10780 Parkridge Boulevard, Suite 155
> Reston, Virginia 20191
>
> Direct: 703-860-7012
> Main: 703-860-7000
> rbibb(at)redback.com
> Mobile: 703-627-0348
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribe
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "William Costello" <wmcenterprises(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Fw: God Bless the USA |
----- Original Message -----
From: Candy Eichenberger
JIdzkowski(at)aol.com ; E. W. "Ted" Green ; Jerry A. Eichenberger ; Keri L.
Dowling ; William Costello ; Terry Eichenberger.2(at)osu.edu
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 9:11 PM
Subject: Fw: God Bless the USA
Turn on your music and be blessed.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph Gutowski
Widman ; Jan Widman ; Vicki Wesolowski ; Joe Wesolowski ; Art Weisberger ;
Cliff ADOLPH R. SVEC ; Evelyn @ home
Stiver ; Gary Steelman ; Frank P. Sperandeo, III ; Tom @
Work Rosemarie ; Molly A. Rodgers ; Joy Rodgers ; Art Amy
H Rodgers ; Wayne Richert ; Tim Rhodenbaugh ; @ Work Ralph ; Joyce Ponder ;
Peter Polen ; Jan Kent O'Kelly ; Richard Norrman ; Bob &
Eleanor Mills ; Mark McKinley ; Gerard M. McCann ; Timothy A. Marks ; Scott
Marks ; Rachael Marks ; Linda and Scott Marks ; Libby Marks ; Dave & Debbie
Marks ; Dan Marks ; Dan Pat Joe Lang
; Flo Lang ; Patrick Kramer ; Pat Mindy
Kristen Kramer ; Laurie L. Kramer ; David (@ work) Kramer ; Denise Krallman
; Bill Knisely ; Sharon Klink ; Jerry and Kay Isbell ; Carol & Roger Herrett
; Bill Heck ; Brent Mike Gutowski ; Jeff Gutowski ;
Martha Gutowski ; Leo Jim and Elaine Freeman ; Jim Fix ;
Warren Jerry Eichenberger ; Candy Eichenberger ; Kathy
Dudley ; Melva Bob Dickman ; Bernard L. DeLong ; Jim &
Roberta Czarnecki ; Mike Crowe ; Rodney Cobb ; Kathy Browning ; Kenneth W.
Brown ; Tony Broadwell ; Marla Boone ; Dave Russell Berry ;
Jim Beisner ; Ms Barista ; Tom Anderson ; Denise Anderson ; John Alexander
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 9:40 PM
Subject: God Bless the USA
Some very uplifting pictures from around the world on this web site -
caution, you may need a Kleenex or hanky before you get through them all.
Ralph
http://home.earthlink.net/~hankinhsd/thankyou.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
Steve,
Congratulations!!
Dave & I look forward to your first flight!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (16 hrs - 9 togo)
Niantic, CT (Westerly airport)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
Dan,
Proseal is much better than RTV as it's paintable. If you somehow figure
out how to bond (Proseal) the canopy into place with no screws, the screws
won't be needed..... Use a few screws as possible..... The Proseal will
definately hold it in place....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV (1780 hrs/8Yrs)
E. Windsor, CT 06088
WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com
Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com
____
From: TwoAviators <TwoAviators(at)lexcominc.net>
Subject: RV-List: Proseal canopy?
All,
I am installing canopy, and so far only thing shattered are my nerves. I
have drilled the rivet holes, and can forsee the problems holding the
canopy in alignment while drilling the canopy skirt. I would like to
proseal or RTV the canopy to the frame, and then locate holes for skirt.
When I finish rivet the skirt I'd like to proseal it on too. Has anyone
done this? Has anyone not done this?
Thanks
Dan Ward
RV8 N417SN
Fitting canopy, nose cowling, wheel pants, about half finished.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
Alex,
Congratulations - we look forward to your first flight!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (flying)
Niantic, CT (Westerly airport)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | Converting a new O-360-A1A to FP prop |
All,
I looked in the archives for some guidance on how to "poke the hole" in
the inner crack plug to set up for FP prop operations. I found some
conflicting information. Does anyone have a step by step procedure to do
this? Some questions:
- What is the correct way to install and seat the outer crank plug? How can
you tell if the plug is installed correctly?
- I assume the installed governor oil line stays in place. Is this correct?
What function does it serve when the crank is converted to FP operations?
Does this line port oil into the crank as is (e.g. no prop governor)? If
so, does this oil flow feed the crank forward journal bearing? It seems to
me this oil line provides a way to bypass oil from the oil pump directly
back to the oil sump via the hole in the inner crank plug. If so, this
bypassed oil is no longer available to the engine for lubrication and
cooling.
- What is the "least likely to cause damage" way to put the hole in the
inner crank plug?
- If I ever wanted to convert back to CS prop operations, how do you replace
the inner crank plug? The oil tube forward of the inner plug is in the way.
Thanks,
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (setting up to move to the hanger)
Vienna, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: VFR concerns |
Some of you guys wrote some good letters to your congressman and senators,
could you send me or the list a copy. I'm working on one myself.
Carey Mills
RV4 169hrs
UH-60 Air Assault Pilot 82nd ABN DIV
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fw: Your vote |
Some of you guys wrote some good letters to your congressman and senators,
could you send me or the list a copy. I'm working on one myself.
Carey Mills
RV4 169hrs
UH-60 Air Assault Pilot 82nd ABN DIV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "jim hurd" <hurd(at)boernenet.com> |
In the spirit of "What you're prepared for you won't need," could we
have knowledgeable advice on engine care for the duration? It's
unlikely I'm going to be able to get out and back into of my airfield
IFR under the current Notam, so what can I do short of pickling--a la
Lycoming--the engine?
Ground-running is a no-no. Will turning the prop to a new position
periodically prevent cam lobe rusting or does this just remove the oil
film already there? After how long a period of disuse should I consider
extraordinary efforts to prep the engine for starting? My oil is just 5
hours old, but if fresh oil will help, I'll do it.
I'm charging the battery weekly and hoping that Murphy will interpret my
efforts and expense to put the plane on life support as a good reason to
make the Notam go away.
Jim RV6A 223JH 145 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com> |
I thought you were serious when I first started reading! Thanks for a good
laugh; the list needed something like this...
Cheers,
Brad
RV6AQ...
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Caldwell [mailto:racaldwell(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 8:10 PM
Subject: RV-List: Van's Air Force
- snip -
I, and 1,000's like me, have these little stubby winged aircraft sitting in
our hangars just collecting dust. We call ourselves Van's Air Force. Mr.
Gov't Leader, we are reporting for duty. What can we do, you ask. Plenty.
See those F-16's up there. Do you know how much fuel they are burning? We
can do the very same job. And we will pay for our own fuel. Think we have
no experience coming up on the wing of another aircraft to read that ID
number. Think again, mister. We are talking about the Van's Air Force here.
Don't tell the Black Jack Squadron they can't fly formation.
Oh, our little RV's are not fast enough? Well, the Apache helicopter that
you sent out Saturday to follow my brother in his Bonanza could have been
doing something more suited to its mission. My RV has proven I can catch
that Bonanza. No way could he deviate from his flight plan without a VAF
pilot reporting it. Yes, the VAF could fill the mission of patrolling our
skies.
Why are you still skeptical, Mr. Gov't Leader? No formal training, you say?
Why, we have all read "For Every Man a Tiger." We even practice what we
read. Believe me, if Mohammed Omar gets on my tail, the Yellow Peril will
be thrown into a 6g barrel roll so quick, Omar's turbin will be spinning.
Yes, the VAF are a talented group. The squadrons train every weekend. Many
add weekday training to their ciriculum. We can fill you mission
requirements. Just give us a chance.
- snip -
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bruce Gray" <bruce.gray(at)snet.net> |
You can get out of any airport IFR. You can get into any airport IFR, even
one without a published IFR approach. So long as the weather is above the
minimum IFR vectoring altitude for that area. You ask for a decent to
minimum altitude and then shoot a visual approach. Works fine if the weather
is VFR.
Bruce
Glasair III, IFR rated but still grounded
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of jim hurd
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 9:54 AM
Subject: RV-List: Engine Care
In the spirit of "What you're prepared for you won't need," could we
have knowledgeable advice on engine care for the duration? It's
unlikely I'm going to be able to get out and back into of my airfield
IFR under the current Notam, so what can I do short of pickling--a la
Lycoming--the engine?
Ground-running is a no-no. Will turning the prop to a new position
periodically prevent cam lobe rusting or does this just remove the oil
film already there? After how long a period of disuse should I consider
extraordinary efforts to prep the engine for starting? My oil is just 5
hours old, but if fresh oil will help, I'll do it.
I'm charging the battery weekly and hoping that Murphy will interpret my
efforts and expense to put the plane on life support as a good reason to
make the Notam go away.
Jim RV6A 223JH 145 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
Subject: | Anyone know why? |
BULL SH!T !!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Besing <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Anyone know why?
>
> The logic of preventing terrorists from bombing with a Cessna is
> beyond my
> simple mind. I don't get it.
>
> I'll tell you what the logic is. Aircraft are very visible, and very
> tragic. Yes, they could bomb with boats or trucks, but the psychological
> impact on what happens when a plane crashes into a building is far greater
> than a truck bombing a building
BULL SH!T !!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Murphy, Richard James (Rick)" <rjmurphy1(at)lucent.com> |
Subject: | required equipment for IFR in VMC in experimental ai |
rcraft
Pilots must be IFR current in order to file any IFR flight plan, regardless
of the weather conditions that the flight will take place in. Rick
> ----------
> From: Randall Henderson[SMTP:randallh(at)home.com]
> Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 12:39 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: required equipment for IFR in VMC in
> experimental aircraft
>
>
> [snip]
> > Suppose an instrument rated pilot who is not current
> > wanted to fly his experimental plane via an IFR flight plan in visual
> > meteorological conditions (VMC). What are the minimum equipment/pilot
> > requirements for this flight?
> >
> > Repeat, here are the issues:
> >
> > 1) IFR rating
> Required. Ref. FAR 61.3 (e)
>
> > 2) currency
> Required. Ref. FAR 61.57 (c)
>
> > 3) VMC
> Not a factor as far as I've ever been able to tell
>
> > 4) experimental airworthiness certificate
> Not a factor... usually. Some DARs/AIs have been known to specifically put
> VFR ONLY in the operating limitiations but if yours is like most it will
> say
> something like "VFR/Day only unless equipped for IFR/Night as required by
> the FARs". Which means if you're so equipped, you're legal, or if you're
> not
> so equipped now but do become so later, you'll be legal then. Bottom line:
> the experimental cert. isn't a factor, but the operating limitations might
> be.
>
> > 5) minimum equipment required
> Min. required for IFR flight. Ref. FAR 91.205
>
> > I am interested in hearing from pilots who actually know what they are
> > talking about on this subject, not those who just think they know what
> > they are talking about. :-)
>
> Sorry I'm probably the latter. But I am an IFR rated pilot who has studied
> the regs pretty carefully. I have discussed the "IFR certification" issue
> and how it applies to experimentals in the past with a number of people
> including a DAR and an FAA AI.
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~280 hrs)
> Portland, OR
> www.vanshomewing.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Converting a new O-360-A1A to FP prop |
carl
i can answer the last question as i saw this done when jim norman installed
the inner plug on his engine. there is a special tool you can rent from vans
that makes it very easy to install the inner plug.
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)redback.com> |
Subject: | Re: Anyone know why? |
I agree completely with the sentiment expressed about cutting our leaders
some slack. I have posted that on other boards this week.
I for one am willing to wait for the duration to fly again if that is what
it takes to eliminate the threat to mankind.
I just get concerned when measures are proposed in the guise of providing
protection that do not offer any such thing.
The comment about not wanting to give the terrorists more avenues of escape
makes some senses in that, presuming that the Air Force has enough
resources to monitor the US in the areas where the remaining terrorists are
likely to be (hard to imagine them hanging in rural Nebraska but ya never
know), then giving eliminating VFR might make some short term sense. Form
the public evidence these thugs did not look to be all that proficient
pilots and would probably draw suspicion trying to file IFR. It is a
stretch but....
I guess we are hoping common sense will prevail but "aviation regulation"
and "common sense" are phrases not often found in the same sentence....
RB
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Bob Archer Address |
List:
I tried the archives but can't come up with contact information for Bob
Archer. Help !!
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, N.C. N910LL (res)
Hooking up systems
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Bob Archer Address - Delete |
List:
Sorry, I found it in the yellow pages !
Thanks !!
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, N.C. N910LL (res)
Hooking up systems
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> |
Subject: | Converting a new O-360-A1A to FP prop |
As a person who has recently done the OPPOSITE, I will help.
I bought an engine from Bart believing that I would be using a Cato Prop
(thus fixed pitch). I changed my mind, and with Bart's help, I converted my
engine to one that would carry the standard C2YK Hartzell CS prop.
As I understand your message, you want to go the opposite way, from a CS
setup to a FP set up. I can help you understand the system, and thus answer
most of your own questions. There is other stuff here that may be
interesting to others as well regarding the working of these systems.
1) Some Lycoming crankshafts are hollow for the forward most aspect of their
length. I don't know how far this goes back, but it goes at least 8 inches
(the location of the inner plug). I may be wrong, but I understand that not
all Lycoming crankshafts are hollow at the forward end, and thus not all can
be used for a hydraulic CS prop. Apparently, the cranks can be hollow their
entire length, but I don't know, and it is irrelevant to this discussion,
other than to use a hydraulic CS prop, it must be hollow at the front.
2) There is the potential for two "plugs" in the crankshaft. One at the very
front end (its steel, is about 1/16" thick, and about 3 inches in diameter).
It looks like a standard "freeze" pug from an automobile crankcase, but
thicker and beefier. The other plug is similar in design, but only about
1.125 inches (a guess) in diameter. It is installed against a ridge within
the inside of the crank hollow which is set about 8 inches from the front of
the crank, however, this is ONLY needed when a CS speed prop is used.
To convert my FP set up to CS setup, I had to go through the following
simple procedure (took about 30 minutes total).
A) Take a plate off the back of the accessory case and bolt up the governor
housing, and then to this 2.5 inches of metal, the governor itself gets
attached. Very straight forward, no tricks.
B) Run a high pressure hose from the right side of the governor housing
along the right side of the engine to the front of the crank case. At the
front of the crankcase, about half way between the first cylinder and the
front of the case, there was a small plug (NPT fitting). I had to remove
this with an Allen wrench, put in a 90 degree elbow, and then to this elbow
is where the forward end of the high pressure oil hose goes. Again... a
couple of minutes, no tricks except that you may have to heat around the NPT
fitting with a torch to get it out.
C) Remove the front (large) plug. This was a bit scary, since I was told to
"just get a punch and a big hammer and punch a hole in it so you can pry it
out". Well this is exactly right, except that this is a thick steel plug,
and it takes some determination to put a hole in it. Once there is a hole
in it, you use the hole to pry this plug out. Thus, this hole is simply to
give you leverage to REMOVE the front plug. WHY? Well, the CS prop moves
with hydraulic pressure which is delivered from the prop governor
(essentially an oil pump) through the high pressure oil line into the center
of the crankshaft which now can flow directly into the prop itself... Now
that you removed the big front plug, the oil flows out of the front flange
of the crankshaft and into the prop. The prop blades themselves turn
according to the oil pressure delivered to them. When the oil pressure is
decreased, they return to fine setting (non-aerobatic, and non feathering
props) by way of a few springs.
D) Well now we get to the part about the inner plug. The high pressure oil
in the front of crankshaft must be contained. Apparently the back part of
the crankshaft hollow will allow the high oil pressure developed by the prop
governor to flow backwards instead of frontward toward the prop (for other
reasons not getting into here for simplicity). My engine, as set up for a FP
prop, came WITHOUT an inner plug. To convert it to CS prop, I had to put the
inner plug in. THIS is the tool that is needed, and I would think that it
really should NOT be done without the special tool. If you are going from
CS to FP (as in your question), you will need to give the oil some other
place to go. I'm not sure if "punching a hole" in this plug is what is
needed (although in theory, this is exactly what is needed), or if this plug
needs to be removed completely. I see no way of removing this plug without
the crankshaft being out on a bench. However, punching a hole in it should
be straight forward (although a bit nerve racking!). Again, I've not done
this because I had no plug and put one in, so you need to seek clarification
here.
E) for completeness sake, let me explain that the high pressure oil gets
into the center of the crank through the above mentioned hose, however, when
you get the front plug out (or look in there if you don't have one to begin
with), you will see an approx 1/4 inch tube which runs from one side of the
hollow crank to the other, although it is off center. The reason it is off
center is that the inner plug sits behind it, and the plug by definition is
the diameter of the hollow. Thus to get the plug past the oil tube, the oil
tube is off center allowing the plug to pass. The special tool used to seat
this plug looks like a large punch. It is the diameter of the crank hollow,
but it has a slit in it which is off center... so that this big punch can
fit over and past the oil tube to assure that the inner plug is set
correctly and squarely.
This is all that needs done to convert a FP to a CS application.
To go the opposite way, as your question reads, means that you need to deal
with relieving the inner plug in some fashion; putting in a front plug which
is very obvious (I'd use a block of wood or something, but it is very
straightforward), and removing the supply of high pressure oil to the front
of the crankshaft. I think it should be obvious now that once you pierce the
inner plug (if that's how you do it), to return this particular engine to CS
operation is NOT a simple chore, since this pierced inner plug needs to be
removed and replaced with a good one... and I think this has to be done with
the crankshaft out of the engine.
And you guys thought I knew nothing except how to mold/make fiberglass!
Jim Norman
Tampa
6A finishing (for ever).
God Bless America!
Please archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 9:07 AM
Subject: RV-List: Converting a new O-360-A1A to FP prop
All,
I looked in the archives for some guidance on how to "poke the hole" in
the inner crack plug to set up for FP prop operations. I found some
conflicting information. Does anyone have a step by step procedure to do
this? Some questions:
- What is the correct way to install and seat the outer crank plug? How can
you tell if the plug is installed correctly?
- I assume the installed governor oil line stays in place. Is this correct?
What function does it serve when the crank is converted to FP operations?
Does this line port oil into the crank as is (e.g. no prop governor)? If
so, does this oil flow feed the crank forward journal bearing? It seems to
me this oil line provides a way to bypass oil from the oil pump directly
back to the oil sump via the hole in the inner crank plug. If so, this
bypassed oil is no longer available to the engine for lubrication and
cooling.
- What is the "least likely to cause damage" way to put the hole in the
inner crank plug?
- If I ever wanted to convert back to CS prop operations, how do you replace
the inner crank plug? The oil tube forward of the inner plug is in the way.
Thanks,
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (setting up to move to the hanger)
Vienna, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Bob Archer Address |
Hi All,
Bob Archer's Email address is bobsantennas(at)earthlink.com
His phone number is (310) 316-8796.
Jim Ayers
RV-3 N47RV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com> |
Subject: | Anyone know why? |
I'm not so much bothered by the restriction as by the attitude. As it is,
they might as well have said "We're grounding all you potential terrorist
nuts in your stupid annoying little planes for as long as we feel like it
and you can just lump it."
I'm just guessing, but I suspect that there are a finite number of AWACS
planes up there looking for terrorists who just might still be planning to
try something. Big planes up high flying in straight lines on IFR flight
plans with transponders on have got to be a lot easier to track than lots of
little planes (some of which don't reflect radar all that well) flying low
and popping up and then disappearing just about anywhere.
AWACS resources that are not tied up watching us play might be better
deployed in Afghanistan or somewhere else where more dangerous things might
be happening.
Now, if that's the case and they'd have just said so, would any of you guys
be bitching about staying on the ground until things settle down?
We deserve administrators who treat us as serious, concerned citizens, and
not as potential terrorists.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "J Andrews" <rv8a(at)lycos.com> |
Subject: | Never know what you got till it's gone... |
I just got off the phone with my congressman's office. Before that I contacted
both the senators. I have never done this in my life before. It's no big deal.
You register your view and it will be given to your representative. If thousands
of us call we WILL be heard. I firmly believe that a call ( daily )
is more profound a statement than a letter. We need to beat these guys door down
with complaints NOW!
If you don't do this then you do not deserve to fly VFR.
The longer you wait, the harder it will be to get our privileges back. If we are
not vocal about this then they will assume that we don't miss it and we may
NEVER get it back. Government works on the sqeaky wheel principle. The louder
you shout, the more bandwidth you get. We need LOTS of voices out there to
be heard.
If you think that this does not apply to you because your still building then think
again. If VFR becomes more restricted or nonexistant then the kit manufactures
like Van's WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS. Then it will not matter if your IFR
quailified or not you will be S.O.L. I understand that less than 20% of the
traffic at GA airports is IFR. The FBOs and the flight schools will not be
able to stay in business just servicing their IFR clients. Say good buy to federal
bucks for upgrading your local airports as well. ALL the money is allocated
based on need. Less pilots, less need.
I'm not militant by any means but if you stand by and let this opportunity slip
through your fingers you WILL loose, we all WILL.
In Texas:
Senator Phil Graham 214-767-3000
Senator Kay Hutchinson 916-5834
Congressman Doggett 916-5921
- Jim Andrews
N89JA ( flying again some day soon I hope )
Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | IFR certification for homebuilts |
The list discussion regarding IFR certification for homebuilts was the first that
I had ever considered or heard that there might be different standards for
homebuilts and certified standard category aircraft. Aside from the pilot being
IFR rated and current, what is involved in getting approval to operate our RV-s
and other homebuilts as IFR aircraft?
Henry H
rv-6
n72224 KAWO
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
Subject: | Filing IFR for yanking & banking |
----- Original Message -----
From: <SportAV8R(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Care
>
> This is a serious question; nothing sarcastic or rhetorical implied; I
really
> want to know. IFR certification of plane and pilot, while expensive and
> time-consuming, is less so than relocation to Alaska, Canada, or
Australia,
> (A.K.A. the Free World) which seem to be my other options. Here's my
> question: what would be the procedure for filing IFR for the scenario
where
> I wanted to take off from my backyard airstrip (no ground radio contact
> possible with anyone except circling overhead aircraft), tool around the
> neighborhood, circle the other private airstrips to see if my neighborhood
> buddies are flying (or out mowing their runways and needing a buzz-job),
> joining up for some formation-flying along the river if they happen to be
up
> flying, popping over to HSP to buy some 100-LL, and then circling the
local
> lakeside state park and possibly the Young Life Camp on the way back home.
> >
I have often called up the local approach control (actually the Memphis ATC
tower) on the telephone, obtained an IFR clearance and transponder code,
then launched off to do a number of approaches in the Memphis area - an ILS
into Millington, holding over Gilmore VOR then a GPS approach back into my
home airport. All the controllers want to know is where you're going and
what you want to do. I suppose if you told them you wanted to "maneuver" in
a certain area, they would allow you to do so. The only difference doing
this IFR vs VFR would be the separation required from other aircraft while
on an IFR clearance. An IFR "flight plan" is not required to do this as long
as you have authorization from ATC.
I'm guessing that the FAA's "incremental" phase-in of VFR operations will be
something like the above scenario, i.e., one will be able to depart VFR only
after obtaining a transponder code and authorization from ATC.
Jerry Carter
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
Subject: | RE: RV-List Digest: 131 Msgs - 09/18/01 |
Folks,
We need to flood the Whitehouse with emails and letters. Tell them the name
of every person and company that is going out of business in your areas, due
to their incompetence.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
the following is an excerpt of my most recent letter
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Mr. President,
You said we were to continue to conduct business as normal, but then you
have let your Chiefs of Staff continue to unilaterally target General
Aviation by not allowing VFR aircraft to fly. This is very rapidly putting
hundreds of thousands of Americans out of business. Yet your staff as no
basis for this. VFR Aviation didn't cause this. All four aircraft "weapons"
used last Teusday were under IFR control. In fact VFR Aviation has never
once been the direct cause of a major commercial airliner disaster in this
country. But your staff has made emotional, uninformed, and incredibly
incompetant decisions due to the mistaken concept that VFR aircraft are
"uncontrolled" so therefore are untrustworthy.
Guess what Sir, the only control any controller has over an aircraft is a
radio wave. Most cities have airports close enough that if a hostile
deviation were to occur on final approach, or just after takeoff, nothing
would ever be able to stop it from hitting whatever it wanted to in that
city, regardless of the type of control the aircraft was operating under.
Yet your staff has allowed the most dangerous section of Aviation (due to
their physical size) to continue to operate with limited (FAR Part 121
Operators) to no (FAR Part 135 Operators)changes in security or operating
procedures, while at the same time targeting a hugh national industry that
poses the least amount of threat.
What your staff has done is said to every American Pilot that The United
States government doesn't trust you. Sir, as an American, and a Pilot who
has been as loyal, if not more loyal than you have ever been, I am offended.
Your staff owes the American People an apology, and it won't be too long
before the press figures this out.
Additionally these decisions made by your staff are jepordizing millions of
American lives and livelyhoods.
It is sincerely my hope that your Staff has the intelligence to make sure
you get this email. I do not mean any disrespect to you or your office, but
I can assure you, my students expect me to be competent, it is therefore
very appropriate for me to expect the same from you and your staff.
Thank you for your time
Wheeler O. North
A Concerned American
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Please take the time to write your representatives in Congress as well, on a
daily basis.
thx
W
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
Subject: | Re: Filing IFR for yanking & banking |
I don't know if this is allowed in the U.S., but in Canada you can get a
clearance for a block of airspace. The block is usually defined by two
radials, two DMEs, and two altitudes. Visit your local ATC and see what
they say. You'll need to be in a low-density area.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | I promise only one |
I had to add my .02 to this discussion.
First of all, I love my country, but do not blindly trust my government.
The FAA and Military are acting irrationally, overzealously, and
economically irrosponsibly. That is a fact.
But, and its a big but, SO WHAT. Suck it up. I normally fly 3 times a
week, I'm goin crazy. So what. Think about those 5000 poor people burried
under the WTC. Think about if some home grown wacko (american citizen)
tries a copy cat attack with an AirTractor loaded with 12000 lbs of fuel
instead of bug killer.
Think about the small flight schools who are getting killed by this.
Do what I did, go excercise a constitutional right, go shooting. Great
stress relief, and when the cop hikes into the woods where you are shooting
and asks what you are doing, politely and with respect, tell him "I'm
excercising my constitutional right, because they took the privelige of
flying away from me last week" Then invite him to fire a few rounds. The
officer and I ended up talking for the next half hour. As he left he said
he would tell dispatch that if any more paranoid people called in, that
everything was ok. It wasn't an islamic milita warming up.
Do something other than fly. I've found this is agreat time for some forced
maintenance.
Be a little patient given the events of the past week. But be vigilant. If
this grounding goes on excessively long, or becomes a knee jerk reaction
every time something happens. Then it will be time to become activists.
Its a different world out there.
Don Mei
RV-4 Chester, CT
"Any man who is willing to trade freedom for safety deserves neither"
Thomas Jefferson
Don Mei
23 Kings Lane
Essex, CT 06426
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Rodney Boyd" <rboyd(at)dcccd.edu> |
Subject: | Re: Never know what you got till it's gone... |
I faxed my reps yesterday afternoon. I used the argument that the little
guy FBOs would be out of business soon if we were unable to continue to
purchase fuel and other services from them.
I believe that for some FBOs it'll be weeks rather than months before they
go toes up. My FBO friend in Terrell, TX has pumped less than 50 gals of
100LL and zero JET since 11SEPT.
Rod
>>> rv8a(at)lycos.com 09/19/01 01:01PM >>>
I just got off the phone with my congressman's office. Before that I
contacted both the senators. I have never done this in my life before.
It's no big deal. You register your view and it will be given to your
representative. If thousands of us call we WILL be heard. I firmly
believe that a call ( daily ) is more profound a statement than a letter.
We need to beat these guys door down with complaints NOW!
If you don't do this then you do not deserve to fly VFR.
The longer you wait, the harder it will be to get our privileges back. If
we are not vocal about this then they will assume that we don't miss it
and we may NEVER get it back. Government works on the sqeaky wheel
principle. The louder you shout, the more bandwidth you get. We need
LOTS of voices out there to be heard.
If you think that this does not apply to you because your still building
then think again. If VFR becomes more restricted or nonexistant then the
kit manufactures like Van's WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS. Then it will not
matter if your IFR quailified or not you will be S.O.L. I understand that
less than 20% of the traffic at GA airports is IFR. The FBOs and the
flight schools will not be able to stay in business just servicing their
IFR clients. Say good buy to federal bucks for upgrading your local
airports as well. ALL the money is allocated based on need. Less pilots,
less need.
I'm not militant by any means but if you stand by and let this opportunity
slip through your fingers you WILL loose, we all WILL.
In Texas:
Senator Phil Graham 214-767-3000
Senator Kay Hutchinson 916-5834
Congressman Doggett 916-5921
- Jim Andrews
N89JA ( flying again some day soon I hope )
Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
Subject: | AOPA says Limited VFR coming later today |
The AOPA website says that they will issue a Notam later today allowing some
limited VFR, no hint as to what that means.
www.aopa.org
if you are not a member, join, they have been working their buts off on
this.
America is fighting back, God Bless America!!
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Subject: | Re: Bob Archer Address |
bobsantennas(at)earthlink.com
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: <Lenleg(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 11:20 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Bob Archer Address
List:
I tried the archives but can't come up with contact information for Bob
Archer. Help !!
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, N.C. N910LL (res)
Hooking up systems
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
Jim Weber
Larry Pink" ,
Paul Chlapecka
Steve Adams
Subject: | RE: RV-List Digest: 131 Msgs - 09/18/01 |
Folks,
This is the web address to the US House of Rep
http://www.house.gov/writerep/
and the US Senate
http://www.senate.gov/senators/senator_by_state.cfm
and the Whitehouse
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
Please write them all on a daily basis about this continued insanity towards
VFR flight.
thx
Wheeler North
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "J R Saunders" <jr182pilot(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Never know what you got till it's gone... |
I to am worried about losing the FBO's....So here is an idea that all of us
can do. Just takes a small amount trust on our part.........
Go to your FBO and buy some gas (on the books) pay your hanger rent a month
or two in advance or your tie down. Maybe even offer to mow the grass. Were
not flying, so we should all have some free time to offer. Hell we could
even paint the Rwy #s.......Just an idea, guys....
J R............
the little guy FBOs would be out I believe that for some FBOs it'll be weeks rather than months before they
go toes up. Rod
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steven Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com> |
Subject: | Re: Filing IFR for yanking & banking |
On Wed, 19 Sep 2001, Jerry Carter wrote:
> >
> > This is a serious question; nothing sarcastic or rhetorical implied; I
> really
[snip]
>
> I have often called up the local approach control (actually the Memphis ATC
> tower) on the telephone, obtained an IFR clearance and transponder code,
> then launched off to do a number of approaches in the Memphis area - an ILS
> into Millington, holding over Gilmore VOR then a GPS approach back into my
> home airport. All the controllers want to know is where you're going and
> what you want to do. I suppose if you told them you wanted to "maneuver" in
> a certain area, they would allow you to do so. The only difference doing
> this IFR vs VFR would be the separation required from other aircraft while
> on an IFR clearance. An IFR "flight plan" is not required to do this as long
> as you have authorization from ATC.
>
> Jerry Carter
While waiting for the local ceiling to lift, about 6 months ago, I asked
my instructor if he wanted to do a little instrument instruction to pass
the time. We took off IFR with about a 300 ft. ceiling and got vectors
out to the practice area. We spent the hour flying around in the practice
area, 0 visability, doing slow flight, procedure turns, practice holding
patterns and even stalls while in the clouds. When we were finished
playing around ATC gave us vectors back to the field.
Seems like a lot of workload for ATC when in VMC but if that is what they
want to do.
Steve Eberhart
RV-7A, working on the tail, wing "in the mail", N14SE reserved
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are
easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: proseal on canopies |
Vince,
We used the Blue painting masking tape on the entire inside and outside of
the canopy. In addition, we used the tubes of sem-weld, which are easier to
work with. We also cleaned up any drips immediately.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (16 hrs)
Niantic, CT (Westerly airport)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Murphy, Richard James (Rick)" <rjmurphy1(at)lucent.com> |
Subject: | Filing IFR for yanking & banking |
Sorry Jerry,
No can do. You clearance is either going to be direct Podunk to Loveland or
Podunk, v31, v69, whithall, v9, Loveland, cleared to 3000 expect 9000 15 min
after departure, squak 3721, readback.
Its pretty hard for them to control you doing turns over the neighbors
farm. To the best of my knowledge, formation flight on an IFR FP is a no-no
and acro on a victor a/w is verboten.
Rick
RV4-emp
> ----------
> From: Jerry Carter[SMTP:jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com]
> Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 4:39 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Filing IFR for yanking & banking
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <SportAV8R(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 8:36 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Care
>
>
> >
> > This is a serious question; nothing sarcastic or rhetorical implied; I
> really
> > want to know. IFR certification of plane and pilot, while expensive and
> > time-consuming, is less so than relocation to Alaska, Canada, or
> Australia,
> > (A.K.A. the Free World) which seem to be my other options. Here's my
> > question: what would be the procedure for filing IFR for the scenario
> where
> > I wanted to take off from my backyard airstrip (no ground radio contact
> > possible with anyone except circling overhead aircraft), tool around the
> > neighborhood, circle the other private airstrips to see if my
> neighborhood
> > buddies are flying (or out mowing their runways and needing a buzz-job),
> > joining up for some formation-flying along the river if they happen to
> be
> up
> > flying, popping over to HSP to buy some 100-LL, and then circling the
> local
> > lakeside state park and possibly the Young Life Camp on the way back
> home.
> > >
>
> I have often called up the local approach control (actually the Memphis
> ATC
> tower) on the telephone, obtained an IFR clearance and transponder code,
> then launched off to do a number of approaches in the Memphis area - an
> ILS
> into Millington, holding over Gilmore VOR then a GPS approach back into my
> home airport. All the controllers want to know is where you're going and
> what you want to do. I suppose if you told them you wanted to "maneuver"
> in
> a certain area, they would allow you to do so. The only difference doing
> this IFR vs VFR would be the separation required from other aircraft while
> on an IFR clearance. An IFR "flight plan" is not required to do this as
> long
> as you have authorization from ATC.
>
> I'm guessing that the FAA's "incremental" phase-in of VFR operations will
> be
> something like the above scenario, i.e., one will be able to depart VFR
> only
> after obtaining a transponder code and authorization from ATC.
>
> Jerry Carter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net> |
Len,
Bob's e-mail address is: bobsantennas(at)earthlink.net
Jim D. RV-7A Installing Side Scan Radar pod in empenage...
Anyone know where the best place to mount chaff...?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
Subject: | Filing IFR for yanking & banking |
On Wed, 19 Sep 2001, Murphy, Richard James (Rick) wrote:
--snip--
>
> To the best of my knowledge, formation flight on an IFR FP is a no-no
I've flown formation IFR in the U.S., in a Canadian military plane. When
we go there we are under FAA rules the same as everyone else. So I
suspect you can file IFR with a formation.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
Subject: | Re: Filing IFR for yanking & banking |
>
> Sorry Jerry,
> Its pretty hard for them to control you doing turns over the neighbors
> farm. To the best of my knowledge, formation flight on an IFR FP is a
no-no
> and acro on a victor a/w is verboten.
>
> Rick
> RV4-emp
If there is a rule against formation IFR, I would like to see it. I am not
aware of one. and have done it. VMC formation on an IFR flight plan, and
IMC formation on a VFR flight plan. (The latter was single engine in a
multi-engine airplane.) Yeah, I know that's not quite right, but things
don't always work the way they are supposed to. (and the staute of
limitations has long passed) If you are good enough, or crazy enough, you
can go join up and blast off in the wild white yonder, go for it. You
better have practiced, cause it gets real busy and you will soon know what
blindfolded cockpit checks are for.
I also don't know why you could not do Acro on a IFR flight plan if you got
a block altitude and were off the airways. Any good reason why not???
If you did either and had any kind of problem, or they decided their must be
a reason why you can't do that, they would bust you for "careless and
reckless."
The rules are intentionally ambiguous to allow arbitrary enforcement. And
that is no accident. (Unfortunately I have some experience with this as
well.)
Still waiting for the VFR notam.
Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dave Goodwin" <toyguy(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Subject: | Re: Never know what you got till it's gone... |
Well said Jim. I was actually on the phone with my Congressional
representatives offices today, asking why I'd had no response to my email.
I made it quite clear that I expected some action and a reply and reminded
them I have a long memory and I always vote. I'll give them another couple
days to reply then I'll be on the horn again. I made all the points I made
in my email to the aide answering the phone and reminded him that Alaskans
are flying. I asked if there was nothing in Alaska susceptible to
terrorism, like pipelines, supertankers and such and how that was different
than little ol' rural Vermont. I think he got my drift. I also told him
they should be making plans to subsidize the GA industry if they do so for
the airlines, who are already screaming for billions. We'll see.
We absolutely need to be flooding everyone we can think of about this before
it's too late. Letters to the editor are next on my agenda.
Dave
Thinking about an RV-9 but waiting until I know I can fly it once it's done
:
)
----- Original Message -----
From: "J Andrews" <rv8a(at)lycos.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 2:01 PM
Subject: RV-List: Never know what you got till it's gone...
>
>
> I just got off the phone with my congressman's office. Before that I
contacted both the senators. I have never done this in my life before.
It's no big deal. You register your view and it will be given to your
representative. If thousands of us call we WILL be heard. I firmly believe
that a call ( daily ) is more profound a statement than a letter. We need
to beat these guys door down with complaints NOW!
>
> If you don't do this then you do not deserve to fly VFR.
>
> The longer you wait, the harder it will be to get our privileges back. If
we are not vocal about this then they will assume that we don't miss it and
we may NEVER get it back. Government works on the sqeaky wheel principle.
The louder you shout, the more bandwidth you get. We need LOTS of voices
out there to be heard.
>
> If you think that this does not apply to you because your still building
then think again. If VFR becomes more restricted or nonexistant then the
kit manufactures like Van's WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS. Then it will not
matter if your IFR quailified or not you will be S.O.L. I understand that
less than 20% of the traffic at GA airports is IFR. The FBOs and the flight
schools will not be able to stay in business just servicing their IFR
clients. Say good buy to federal bucks for upgrading your local airports as
well. ALL the money is allocated based on need. Less pilots, less need.
>
> I'm not militant by any means but if you stand by and let this opportunity
slip through your fingers you WILL loose, we all WILL.
>
> In Texas:
>
> Senator Phil Graham 214-767-3000
> Senator Kay Hutchinson 916-5834
> Congressman Doggett 916-5921
>
> - Jim Andrews
> N89JA ( flying again some day soon I hope )
>
>
> Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
> http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Kitz" <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
I sent an email to Tom P yesterday and hewre is the answer.
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Knapinski" <dknapinski(at)eaa.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 4:20 PM
Subject: VFR flying
> John:
>
> Thanks for your e-mail. Tom Poberezny and I talked about your inquiry
this
> morning and he asked me to reply to you personally. Hopefully you've
heard
> the good news that a significant part of the VFR airspace will be
re-opening
> on Wednesday afternoon. FAA Administrator Jane Garvey called Tom this
> afternoon for a personal briefing on the matter. It is a very good first
> step. EAA, along with AOPA and other aviation groups, has been working
> non-stop to restore the freedoms and privileges of flight to the point
where
> they were prior to Sept. 11 -- representing their members as well as all
> general aviation enthusiasts.
>
> EAA has been working with people in FAA, DOT, Dept. of Defense, the U.S.
> Congress and other areas to get VFR flights operating once again. In
every
> contact, we have been emphasizing that this shutdown is harming people
> economically -- people who generally operate on small margins and have
> continual high expenses. In addition, we have noted that people who have
> earned their flying privileges are not being allowed to keep their skills
> updated and, of course, flight training has come to a standstill.
>
> The economic impact on general aviation has been substantial and has been
a
> major point of emphasis in our communications with top government
officials.
> Administrator Garvey has discussed this with Tom Poberezny, and agrees
with
> EAA's position that general aviation is deeply hurt by the continuing
> shutdown.
>
> This is uncharted territory for everyone -- from the massive attack in
> America, to the complete shutdown of the nation's airspace, to the current
> efforts to balance security concerns with the economic danger present for
> the airlines and general aviation. EAA is posting continual updates on
its
> web site (www.eaa.org), which brings you the latest news on the situation.
> I encourage you to check that out regularly.
>
> I can't speak to the personal reasons or agendas on why some people may
> believe one organization has been working harder than another on this
issue
> -- every general aviation organization I know has been putting tremendous
> unified effort into this situation.
>
> Thanks again for your e-mail. Please let me know if you have any other
> questions.
>
> Best,
> Dick Knapinski
> EAA OSH
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
I'm sorry, but I have to respond to this.
Predictability of traffic? They did a great job of that last Teusday with
fully "controlled" IFR traffic!
VFR traffic could be easily made more predictable by having the tower or
closest reasonable controller,that you are required to contact upon taxi,
assigning you a unique transponder code. You would be required to tell them
what you are up to, and the rest of the flight is handled by VFR with flight
following. If you don't have a Xponder they can still attach a tag to you on
the radar systems. If you don't have a radio, get one.
In other words, file a VFR flight plan, call someone on the radio and go.
The only other option is to stay in the airport traffic area for the total
duration of the flight, which, by the way, provides the exact same level of
predictablility found in IFR flight.
52000 people a year die in automobiles in America, so certainly this
reaction isn't a function of the number dead. If it is, then why didn't they
outlaw cars in 1921?
Time? They don't need more time to continue being incompetent, they are
putting people out of business, out of their livelyhood, and jepordizing the
rest of us in several ways, one by not providing opportunities for real
security, and two, by forcing all of us to become non-proficient.
The plans they are currently implementing only provide small increases in
Part 121 security, and they have done nothing,,, repeat nothing, to
implement increases in Part 135 security, which can include all types of
aircraft except for Part 121 airliners. Tell me an IFR 135 operating King
Air full of ammoninum nitrate wouldn't make a major dent in any building,
anywhere. As far as National Security, just shoot down anything within 50
miles of DC that isn't cleared to Dulles, or 5 miles of a military base or
nuke plant/boat etc.
"Given that our country is recently under attack" It has been under attack
for the last 30 years and our government has not been able to do squat
didilly about it, nor have they made much effort to do squat didilly about
it. (Other than spending $2.0 M to execute a camel {Thank you Mr. Clinton})
So now we are going to really affect changes in all this by grounding VFR
flight, and putting thousands of highly trained individuals out of work? No
matter what angle you come at this thing from, the logic for it isn't there,
and waiting another week isn't going to magically make it logical.
This isn't about a bunch of folks who want to go flying, this is about a
national industry being killed for no apparent reason other than whimsical
decisions made by uninformed, incompetent buffoons sitting in the Ready
Room.
Oh, and file IFR, sorry only those who are already IFR rated/grandfathered
can do that, no one else can even become IFR rated under the current reign
of bureaucratic terror. In fact, the only way for the anyone to become a
pilot right now is to join the military. Kinda scary, in my humble opinion.
I also think SoCal Tracon would be slightly miffed if I were to file a GPS
direct IFR flight plan for Right Closed Traffic just to practice full stop
landings.
Wheeler North
IA, AP Instructor
From: "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Anyone know why?
How about several off the top of my head :
1) More predictable traffic: When you go VFR, no one in the ARTCC or TRACON
knows where you are going.
2) More security: Ashcroft has said that more attacks are a very real
possibility, given what evidence they have found. While a Cessna,
Cherokee, or RV wouldn't cause physical damage of the same magnitude as a
757, I suspect it would still a fair amount of psychological damage to the
nation.
3) Time: The FBI investigation is in full swing and is chasing down people
on commercial air traffic, trains, buses, etc. If another week helps, then
so be it.
Here's another point to consider: What if VFR traffic was suddenly allowed,
and a terrorist (or wannabe) takes off in a Cherokee and then intentionally
crashes it into something. You can bet your sweet a*s that that would be
the end of VFR GA. Again, given that more terrorism is possible, this is a
realistic scenario.
Given that our country has come under attack, given that our service men and
women will be put in harm's way in this war on terrorism, and given that
thousands of lives have been lost, it seems a little soon to be writing
legislators demanding that your VFR flying *privileges* be restored.
Finally if you really want to go flying, file IFR (grab a CFII or an
instrument rated friend if not rated) and go flying. Nobody is stopping you
from doing this, and you can go anywhere you want (TFRs and prohibited areas
excepted, of course).
Grabbing the Nomex...
Brad
RV6AQ underway...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
Subject: | VFR Flight Restrictions |
I can understand the "why" part of the restrictions, but have to wonder why
my little RV6A is such a potential threat that it cannot be allowed to fly,
while tanker trucks with 10,000 gallons of fuel can drive anywhere in any
city in the US without any restrictions. Go figure!
John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
VFR Airspace Opens Through Much of U.S. - More Information - Tom Poberezny
Messages NOTAMs Event Updates FAQs Relief Help e-Hot Line Restricted
Airspace Maps FAA Administrator Updates
Updated: 9/19/01 7:35 p.m.
U.S. Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta announced late today that
much of the nation's airspace available to pilots flying under Visual Flight
Rules (VFR) has been reopened, with restrictions remaining in major
metropolitan areas and flight training.
EAA, which has worked diligently over the past week for restoration of
general aviation access to the national airspace, called the move a very
positive first step. Earlier Wednesday, EAA president Tom Poberezny received
a call from FAA Administrator Jane Garvey, briefing him on the opening of
significant national airspace segments to VFR traffic, specifically
addressing "recreational flying, air shows, ultralights and a variety of
general aviation activities." FAA issued a NOTAM on this issue with specific
details on airspace access.
"This reopening of major portions of VFR airspace with no restrictions is
very good news, especially at a time when no news was creating a confusing
and chaotic situation within general aviation," Poberezny said. "As we've
continually stated, we wanted VFR flight to return as it was previous to
Sept. 11, with no lasting effects."
"The announcement allows the nation's aviators access to some airspace," he
said. "In conjunction with that announcement, it's important for a
continuing balance between the nation's security issues and the needs of the
country's aviation infrastructure and potential severe economic impact. We
can't stop here."
EAA and its affiliate, the National Association of Flight Instructors
(NAFI), remain committed to addressing the remaining prohibited areas for
VFR flight and flight training, which continue to cause economic hardships
throughout the country.
"As access to the national airspace widens, it is of extreme importance that
every pilot exercises outstanding airmanship and professionalism," Poberezny
added. "Be especially aware of Class B airspace and restricted areas.
Understandably, during this time of national crisis, it is absolutely
critical that aviators operate responsibly."
Administrator Garvey reiterated to Poberezny that she is committed to
continuing efforts with the Department of Defense and national security
officials regarding the incremental release of more VFR airspace in the
future. Garvey also assured Poberezny that she would be in constant contact
with him regarding developments in this dynamic situation.
Poberezny acknowledged the efforts of Secretary Mineta, Administrator Garvey
and their agencies in supporting general aviation in this matter
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
Subject: | Re: Filing IFR for yanking & banking |
If you want to just go up and fart around IFR it's not a problem, even in
actual IFR conditions. Just contact clearance and tell them what you want
to do and where you want to do it. I frequently used this technique when
training for my IFR rating. They would give us a "block" altitude and told
us to stay between certain radials from a given VOR and a certain distance
from the radial. I don't remember the phraseology, but they gave us a
heading to fly on departure and an altitude. Once we reached our DME from
the VOR, they told us to stay between two radials usually about 10 degrees
apart and between 10 and 20 DME from the radial. We did whatever we had to
do in that area then contacted approach control to fly the published
approach or get vectors for the approach.
We only ony used this method when the weather was below min's. I wouldn't
recommend flying this way with just any old IFR instructor. I remember the
clearance being very confusing for a new IFR trainee and it was easy to get
"lost" at bust the restrictions. My IFR instructor was very good and we
never had any problems.
If you've got a cell phone, you can get out of any airport by calling Flight
Service and let them coordinate the departure. You can negotiate a 5 or 10
minute void time and that should be plenty of time.
The other feature that can be used is the old VFR on Top clause. You can
always ask for VFR on Top and as long as it's VFR conditions and you tell
them what you want to do, the controllers will probably let you do pretty
much what you please. You're still on an IFR flight plan so as long as you
adhere to that you'll probably be ok.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K>
>
> >
> > This is a serious question; nothing sarcastic or rhetorical implied; I
> really
> > want to know. IFR certification of plane and pilot, while expensive and
> > time-consuming, is less so than relocation to Alaska, Canada, or
> Australia,
> > (A.K.A. the Free World) which seem to be my other options. Here's my
> > question: what would be the procedure for filing IFR for the scenario
> where
> > I wanted to take off from my backyard airstrip (no ground radio contact
> > possible with anyone except circling overhead aircraft), tool around the
> > neighborhood, circle the other private airstrips to see if my
neighborhood
> > buddies are flying (or out mowing their runways and needing a buzz-job),
> > joining up for some formation-flying along the river if they happen to
be
> up
> > flying, popping over to HSP to buy some 100-LL, and then circling the
> local
> > lakeside state park and possibly the Young Life Camp on the way back
home.
> > >
>
> I have often called up the local approach control (actually the Memphis
ATC
> tower) on the telephone, obtained an IFR clearance and transponder code,
> then launched off to do a number of approaches in the Memphis area - an
ILS
> into Millington, holding over Gilmore VOR then a GPS approach back into my
> home airport. All the controllers want to know is where you're going and
> what you want to do. I suppose if you told them you wanted to "maneuver"
in
> a certain area, they would allow you to do so. The only difference doing
> this IFR vs VFR would be the separation required from other aircraft while
> on an IFR clearance. An IFR "flight plan" is not required to do this as
long
> as you have authorization from ATC.
>
> I'm guessing that the FAA's "incremental" phase-in of VFR operations will
be
> something like the above scenario, i.e., one will be able to depart VFR
only
> after obtaining a transponder code and authorization from ATC.
>
> Jerry Carter
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Randall Henderson on Sporty's |
To bad his head will no longer fit in the canopy!
So Randall how windy is it with the canopy open?
-Rob Hickman
(RV-4 Under Class B airspace in Oakland)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Richard McCraw" <rmccraw(at)wcvt.com> |
Subject: | Some VFR restored |
I haven't seen this mentioned yet, so I'll jump in. It looks like a lot of
VFR privileges/rights (no flames on the distinction, please) are finally
back. Take at look at the notam at
http://38.200.9.137/010915tfr.html#special .
Rick McCraw
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> |
"Rocket List"
Subject: | VFR Ban lifted??? |
Excuss me but does anyone see Aircraft in this list below.
Looks like I can bring my plane home if stuck out.
Test fly if still in that phase.
But I don't see the 100 dollar hamburger or VFR "fun" flying listed.
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
copied from EAA site:
B. EXAMPLES OF AUTHORIZED OPERATIONS, OUTSIDE "ENHANCED CLASS B
AIRSPACE" INCLUDE:
1. AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE REPOSITIONING.
2. BALLOONS.
3. CIVIL AIR PATROL.
4. GLIDERS.
5. MANUFACTURER PRODUCTION FLIGHT TESTS.
6. MAPPING/PHOTOGRAPHY MISSIONS.
7. PIPELINE/POWERLINE INSPECTIONS.
8. SEAPLANES.
9. SKYDIVING.
10. ULTRALIGHTS.
11. WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT OPERATIONS.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Subject: | Re: Some VFR restored NOTAM |
!Fdc 1/0215
Special notice
Attention all operators - special notice effective immediately
Until further notice. Pursuant to 14 cfr 91.139 (emergency air
Traffic rules), part 91 ifr and vfr aircraft operation are
Authorized as specified in notams 1/0111 and 1/0112. To the extent
That contrary language exists, this notam shall supercede.
Note: for purposes of this notam, the "territorial airspace of the u.s."
means the airspace over the u.s., its territories and
Possessions and the airspace overlying the waters between the
U.s. coast and 12 nautical miles from the u.s. coast.
Note: for purposes of this notam, an overflight means the
Aircraft takes off from and lands at locations outside the u.s., its
territories or possessions but enroute transits the territorial airspace of
the u.s. without landing in the u.s., its territories orpossessions.
Note: for the purposes of this notam, "enhanced class b airspace" is defined
as that airspace within the extreme lateral limit of class b airpace from
surface to infinity (i.e. such operations are not authorized within, below,
or above class b airspace):
Part i. Except for the operations listed below, part 91 vfr
Operation are permitted within the territorial airspace of the
U.s., for u.s. registered aircraft provided that those operations are
conducted outside "enhanced class b airspace."
A. The following types of operations are not authorized:
1. Civil aircraft vfr flight training operations
2. Banner towing operations
3. Sight seeing flight operations conducted for
Compensation or hire (under part 91, pursuant to the exception in
119.1(e)(2))
4. Traffic watch flight operations
5. Airship/blimp operations
6. News reporting operations
B. Examples of authorized operations, outside "enhanced class b airspace"
include:
1. Aircraft maintenance repositioning.
2. Balloons.
3. Civil air patrol.
4. Gliders.
5. Manufacturer production flight tests.
6. Mapping/photography missions.
7. Pipeline/powerline inspections.
8. Seaplanes.
9. Skydiving.
10. Ultralights.
11. Wildlife management operations.
Part ii. The following part 91 ifr operations are authorized
Within the territorial airspace of the u.s.
1. Foreign registered aircraft departing the u.s. with no inter-
Mediate stops within the u.s.
2. Foreign registered aircraft overflying the u.s. with a gross
Takeoff weight less than 95,000 pounds.
Part iii. Authorizations.
1. All part 91 ifr/vfr operations are authorized in alaskan
Airspace.
2. Within "enhanced class b airspace," all medivac,
Rescue/recovery, fire fighting, law enforcement, and emergency evacuation
aircraft can conduct ifr or vfr operations using an atc-assigned discrete
beacon code.
3. Commercial space operations are authorized and must be
Approved in accordance with established procedures.
Part iv. If you are unsure of your authorization status contact local faa
flight service station at 1-800-wxbrief.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard McCraw" <rmccraw(at)wcvt.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 8:50 PM
Subject: RV-List: Some VFR restored
I haven't seen this mentioned yet, so I'll jump in. It looks like a lot of
VFR privileges/rights (no flames on the distinction, please) are finally
back. Take at look at the notam at
http://38.200.9.137/010915tfr.html#special .
Rick McCraw
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Larry & Karen Gooding <GOODING(at)hargray.com> |
Subject: | Re: VFR Flight Restrictions |
John,
I know it won't make you feel much better, but a tanker truck carrying
10,000 gallons of fuel has plenty of restrictions on where and when it can
operate. It absolutely may not be driven down most city streets under any
circumstances, and if caught away from a permitted route is subject to
large fines and even possible immediate arrest of the driver. This was the
case long before the events of Sept 11th.
"Big trucks" are burdened by regulations and usage fees that would stagger
commercial aviation. They deliver just about 100% of everything we need
for daily life, including the parts for this RV-6.
Karen Gooding
>
>I can understand the "why" part of the restrictions, but have to wonder why
>my little RV6A is such a potential threat that it cannot be allowed to fly,
>while tanker trucks with 10,000 gallons of fuel can drive anywhere in any
>city in the US without any restrictions. Go figure!
>
>John at Salida, CO
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Arthur Glaser <airplane(at)megsinet.net> |
Subject: | Re: VFR Flight Restrictions |
Does this include only the primary class b airspace or does in include airports
under the outer portion of the 30 mile (transponder required) veil?
Larry & Karen Gooding wrote:
>
> John,
>
> I know it won't make you feel much better, but a tanker truck carrying
> 10,000 gallons of fuel has plenty of restrictions on where and when it can
> operate. It absolutely may not be driven down most city streets under any
> circumstances, and if caught away from a permitted route is subject to
> large fines and even possible immediate arrest of the driver. This was the
> case long before the events of Sept 11th.
>
> "Big trucks" are burdened by regulations and usage fees that would stagger
> commercial aviation. They deliver just about 100% of everything we need
> for daily life, including the parts for this RV-6.
>
> Karen Gooding
>
> >
> >I can understand the "why" part of the restrictions, but have to wonder why
> >my little RV6A is such a potential threat that it cannot be allowed to fly,
> >while tanker trucks with 10,000 gallons of fuel can drive anywhere in any
> >city in the US without any restrictions. Go figure!
> >
> >John at Salida, CO
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "steve dinieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | VFR Ban lifted??? |
Bring your camera and call it a photography mission...myself, I can
justify every flight as a test flight...
Steve DiNieri
Rv6a N221RV
Still only 24.99 hours
Excuss me but does anyone see Aircraft in this list below.
Looks like I can bring my plane home if stuck out.
Test fly if still in that phase.
But I don't see the 100 dollar hamburger or VFR "fun" flying listed.
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
copied from EAA site:
B. EXAMPLES OF AUTHORIZED OPERATIONS, OUTSIDE "ENHANCED CLASS B
AIRSPACE" INCLUDE:
1. AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE REPOSITIONING.
2. BALLOONS.
3. CIVIL AIR PATROL.
4. GLIDERS.
5. MANUFACTURER PRODUCTION FLIGHT TESTS.
6. MAPPING/PHOTOGRAPHY MISSIONS.
7. PIPELINE/POWERLINE INSPECTIONS.
8. SEAPLANES.
9. SKYDIVING.
10. ULTRALIGHTS.
11. WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT OPERATIONS.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Scott Gesele" <sgesele(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Avionics Shop In The Northeast ? |
Listers,
Can anyone recommend an avionics shop in the Northeast US? I have a King
KX-125 whose nav side just went dead and I'm due for a pitot static test.
Two years ago I was charged $400 for that pitot static test at Islip
Avionics. That price appears to be quite high. I'm located on Long Island,
so any shop within 200 nm would be an easy trip.
Any feedback or info would be greatly appreciated.
Scott Gesele
N506RV 450+ hr and looking forward to getting back into the air
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Kevin Hanson" <kmhanson3(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: VFR Ban lifted??? |
It says all VFR flights are authorize expect those types listed (like VFR instruction).
The next list has EXAMPLES of type of flights that are permitted. So
since we aren't exclude from flight by the first list, we can fly VFR (unless
you are currently on the ground in Class B airspace, like someone has posted).
Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "steve dinieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> |
As of 8:20 pm 9/19
FDC 1/0224
ATTENTION ALL OPERATORS - SPECIAL NOTICE EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL
FURTHER NOTICE. PURSUANT TO 14 CFR 91.139 (EMERGENCY AIR TRAFFIC RULES),
PART 91 IFR AND VFR AIRCRAFT OPERATION ARE AUTHORIZED AS SPECIFIED IN
NOTAMS 1/0111 AND 1/0112. [0111 and 0112 are identical--ed.] TO THE
EXTENT THAT CONTRARY LANGUAGE EXISTS, THIS NOTAM SHALL SUPERCEDE.
NOTE: FOR PURPOSES OF THIS NOTAM, THE "TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE OF THE U.S."
MEANS THE AIRSPACE OVER THE U.S., ITS TERRITORIES AND POSSESSIONS AND
THE AIRSPACE OVERLYING THE WATERS BETWEEN THE U.S. COAST AND 12 NAUTICAL
MILES FROM THE U.S. COAST.
NOTE: FOR PURPOSES OF THIS NOTAM, AN OVERFLIGHT MEANS THE AIRCRAFT TAKES
OFF FROM AND LANDS AT LOCATIONS OUTSIDE THE U.S., ITS TERRITORIES OR
POSSESSIONS BUT ENROUTE TRANSITS THE TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE OF THE U.S.
WITHOUT LANDING IN THE U.S., ITS TERRITORIES OR POSSESSIONS.
NOTE: FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS NOTAM, "ENHANCED CLASS B AIRSPACE" IS
DEFINED AS THAT AIRSPACE WITHIN THE EXTREME LATERAL LIMIT OF CLASS B
AIRPACE FROM SURFACE TO INFINITY (I.E. SUCH OPERATIONS ARE NOT
AUTHORIZED WITHIN, BELOW, OR ABOVE CLASS B AIRSPACE):
PART I. EXCEPT FOR THE OPERATIONS LISTED BELOW, PART 91 VFR OPERATION
ARE PERMITTED WITHIN THE TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE OF THE U.S., FOR U.S.
REGISTERED AIRCRAFT PROVIDED THAT THOSE OPERATIONS ARE CONDUCTED OUTSIDE
"ENHANCED CLASS B AIRSPACE."
THE FOLLOWING TYPES OF OPERATIONS ARE NOT AUTHORIZED:
CIVIL AIRCRAFT VFR FLIGHT TRAINING OPERATIONS
BANNER TOWING OPERATIONS
SIGHT SEEING FLIGHT OPERATIONS CONDUCTED FOR COMPENSATION OR HIRE (UNDER
PART 91, PURSUANT TO THE EXCEPTION IN 119.1(e)(2))
TRAFFIC WATCH FLIGHT OPERATIONS
AIRSHIP/BLIMP OPERATIONS
NEWS REPORTING OPERATIONS
EXAMPLES OF AUTHORIZED OPERATIONS, OUTSIDE "ENHANCED CLASS B AIRSPACE"
INCLUDE:
AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE REPOSITIONING.
BALLOONS.
CIVIL AIR PATROL.
GLIDERS.
MANUFACTURER PRODUCTION FLIGHT TESTS.
MAPPING/PHOTOGRAPHY MISSIONS.
PIPELINE/POWERLINE INSPECTIONS.
SEAPLANES.
SKYDIVING.
ULTRALIGHTS.
WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT OPERATIONS.
PART II. THE FOLLOWING PART 91 IFR OPERATIONS ARE AUTHORIZED WITHIN THE
TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE OF THE U.S.
FOREIGN REGISTERED AIRCRAFT DEPARTING THE U.S. WITH NO INTERMEDIATE
STOPS WITHIN THE U.S.
FOREIGN REGISTERED AIRCRAFT OVERFLYING THE U.S. WITH A GROSS TAKEOFF
WEIGHT LESS THAN 95,000 POUNDS.
PART III. AUTHORIZATIONS.
ALL PART 91 IFR/VFR OPERATIONS ARE AUTHORIZED IN ALASKAN AIRSPACE.
WITHIN "ENHANCED CLASS B AIRSPACE," ALL MEDIVAC, RESCUE/RECOVERY, FIRE
FIGHTING, LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND EMERGENCY EVACUATION AIRCRAFT CAN CONDUCT
IFR OR VFR OPERATIONS USING AN ATC-ASSIGNED DISCRETE BEACON CODE.
COMMERCIAL SPACE OPERATIONS ARE AUTHORIZED AND MUST BE APPROVED IN
PART IV. IF YOU ARE UNSURE OF YOUR AUTHORIZATION STATUS CONTACT LOCAL
FAA FLIGHT SERVICE STATION AT 1-800-WXBRIEF.
Steve DiNieri
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "steve dinieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> |
Sorry, notam says vfr as of 8:20 9/20
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | WCruiser1(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: required equipment for IFR in VMC in experimental aircraft |
We recently had an RV8 inspected by the FAA for airworthiness, and as you
correctly noted the fars are clear on certificated aircraft. As part of the
airworthiness certificate were ive - six pages reversing all the experimental
exceptions to the FAR's. Essentially this airworthiness certificate requires
the experimental to meet the FAR's as far as equiipment, use, performance.
Maintenance can still be done by the builder per the FAR's
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Thomas Mosher" <tmosher(at)gbronline.com> |
Subject: | Re: VFR Ban lifted??? |
Read the first paragraph - note, when someone says "examples of.....include"
it does not mean it is a difinitive list" -
ATTENTION ALL OPERATORS - SPECIAL NOTICE EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FURTHER
NOTICE. PURSUANT TO 14 CFR 91.139 (EMERGENCY AIR TRAFFIC RULES), PART 91 IFR
AND VFR AIRCRAFT OPERATION ARE AUTHORIZED AS SPECIFIED IN NOTAMS 1/0111 AND
1/0112. [0111 and 0112 are identical--ed.] TO THE EXTENT THAT CONTRARY
LANGUAGE EXISTS, THIS NOTAM SHALL SUPERCEDE.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 8:51 PM
Subject: RV-List: VFR Ban lifted???
>
> Excuss me but does anyone see Aircraft in this list below.
>
> Looks like I can bring my plane home if stuck out.
> Test fly if still in that phase.
>
> But I don't see the 100 dollar hamburger or VFR "fun" flying listed.
>
> Tom Gummo
> Apple Valley, CA
>
> copied from EAA site:
>
> B. EXAMPLES OF AUTHORIZED OPERATIONS, OUTSIDE "ENHANCED CLASS B
> AIRSPACE" INCLUDE:
> 1. AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE REPOSITIONING.
> 2. BALLOONS.
> 3. CIVIL AIR PATROL.
> 4. GLIDERS.
> 5. MANUFACTURER PRODUCTION FLIGHT TESTS.
> 6. MAPPING/PHOTOGRAPHY MISSIONS.
> 7. PIPELINE/POWERLINE INSPECTIONS.
> 8. SEAPLANES.
> 9. SKYDIVING.
> 10. ULTRALIGHTS.
> 11. WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT OPERATIONS.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: We Can FLY!!! |
Ok you guys it's about time I fessed up. I'm the reason you can go flying
tomorrow. I sacrificed myself by doing a reverse Murphy. This evening, I
removed "Caspers" left aileron so I could install the trim servo in it. I
new that as soon as I did this, Murphy would take over and he sure did.
No thanks are necessary. Maybe just a cold one when we meet at the next
Flyin.
Garry, " Casper" No flying for me tomorrow, but it's worth to see those
smiles on your face.
steve dinieri wrote:
>
> Sorry, notam says vfr as of 8:20 9/20
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
Subject: | Re: VFR Flight Restrictions |
Only those airports under the "overhang" are included. For example, Lewis
(LOT) (that'd be me by about 2 miles) ain't going nowhere. New Lennox 1C2,
however, gets to fly all day long even thought they're just under the 30
mile circle.
How's that -4 coming?
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
> Does this include only the primary class b airspace or does in include
airports
> under the outer portion of the 30 mile (transponder required) veil?
>
> Larry & Karen Gooding wrote:
>
> >
> > John,
> >
> > I know it won't make you feel much better, but a tanker truck carrying
> > 10,000 gallons of fuel has plenty of restrictions on where and when it
can
> > operate. It absolutely may not be driven down most city streets under
any
> > circumstances, and if caught away from a permitted route is subject to
> > large fines and even possible immediate arrest of the driver. This was
the
> > case long before the events of Sept 11th.
> >
> > "Big trucks" are burdened by regulations and usage fees that would
stagger
> > commercial aviation. They deliver just about 100% of everything we need
> > for daily life, including the parts for this RV-6.
> >
> > Karen Gooding
> >
> > >
> > >I can understand the "why" part of the restrictions, but have to wonder
why
> > >my little RV6A is such a potential threat that it cannot be allowed to
fly,
> > >while tanker trucks with 10,000 gallons of fuel can drive anywhere in
any
> > >city in the US without any restrictions. Go figure!
> > >
> > >John at Salida, CO
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Filing IFR for yanking & banking |
From: | james freeman <flyeyes(at)bellsouth.net> |
on 9/19/01 8:31 PM, Mike Nellis at mnellis(at)peoplepc.com wrote:
(snip)
> The other feature that can be used is the old VFR on Top clause. You can
> always ask for VFR on Top and as long as it's VFR conditions and you tell
> them what you want to do, the controllers will probably let you do pretty
> much what you please. You're still on an IFR flight plan so as long as you
> adhere to that you'll probably be ok.
(snip)
Unfortunately not. VFR on top is specifically forbidden under the current
rules.
James Freeman
With keys to three VFR airplanes and a hangar trapped under a class B
"shelf"
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Thomas Mosher" <tmosher(at)gbronline.com> |
Subject: | Re: VFR Flight Restrictions |
Note: for the purposes of this notam, "enhanced class b airspace" is defined
as that airspace within the extreme lateral limit of class b airpace from
surface to infinity (i.e. such operations are not authorized within, below,
or above class b airspace):
The operative wording is "within the extreme lateral limit of class B
airspace from surface to infinity" - which means Narg of Planet Z at 93
trillion miles above DFW would be damned if he was VFR.
As I intepret it, yes. For example, KGKY (Arlington, TX) which is under DFW
class B airspace is included.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arthur Glaser" <airplane(at)megsinet.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: VFR Flight Restrictions
>
> Does this include only the primary class b airspace or does in include
airports
> under the outer portion of the 30 mile (transponder required) veil?
>
> Larry & Karen Gooding wrote:
>
> >
> > John,
> >
> > I know it won't make you feel much better, but a tanker truck carrying
> > 10,000 gallons of fuel has plenty of restrictions on where and when it
can
> > operate. It absolutely may not be driven down most city streets under
any
> > circumstances, and if caught away from a permitted route is subject to
> > large fines and even possible immediate arrest of the driver. This was
the
> > case long before the events of Sept 11th.
> >
> > "Big trucks" are burdened by regulations and usage fees that would
stagger
> > commercial aviation. They deliver just about 100% of everything we need
> > for daily life, including the parts for this RV-6.
> >
> > Karen Gooding
> >
> > >
> > >I can understand the "why" part of the restrictions, but have to wonder
why
> > >my little RV6A is such a potential threat that it cannot be allowed to
fly,
> > >while tanker trucks with 10,000 gallons of fuel can drive anywhere in
any
> > >city in the US without any restrictions. Go figure!
> > >
> > >John at Salida, CO
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary Coonan" <gcoonan(at)home.com> |
A sincere vankyou. For your sacrifice.
Gary Coonan
Rockvale, TN
RV-7
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry LeGare
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: We Can FLY!!!
Ok you guys it's about time I fessed up. I'm the reason you can go
flying
tomorrow. I sacrificed myself by doing a reverse Murphy. This evening, I
removed "Caspers" left aileron so I could install the trim servo in it.
I
new that as soon as I did this, Murphy would take over and he sure did.
No thanks are necessary. Maybe just a cold one when we meet at the next
Flyin.
Garry, " Casper" No flying for me tomorrow, but it's worth to see those
smiles on your face.
steve dinieri wrote:
>
> Sorry, notam says vfr as of 8:20 9/20
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mimi Steel <msteel(at)home.com> |
Subject: | IO-360B1B Help Request |
I am looking for some help. I have an RV 6 with a IO 360 B1B. I am
having
>serious problems with my fuel servo and I need to find someone who has
a
>B1B that is working properly and can tell me the part number of the
fuel servo that matches that engine.
>Thanks in advance,
>Mimi
Please respond directly to msteel(at)home.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
Subject: | Aileron Trim Finally Completed |
Well, I finally finished my modified version of Vans electric Aileron
trim on my -6. While the finished product turned out pretty nice, I
don't know that I'd do it that way again. I haven't seen the plans for
the electric aileron trim on the -7 but I've got a suspicion that it's
going to be similar to the -8 and use the servo to manipulate the bias
spring system. While I have a fundamental (in theory) aversion to this
way of trimming the control surfaces, it would certainly be an easier
way of doing things. You can see the finished installation here.
http://www.bmnellis.com/wings_ailerons_trim.htm
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
Subject: | Re: Filing IFR for yanking & banking |
Right you are Jim. I guess I didn't read the restrictions carefully and
just assumed that since VFR-ON-TOP was still and IFR clearance it'd be ok.
Thanks for the correction. See, it pays to read those restrictions
carefully.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
> Unfortunately not. VFR on top is specifically forbidden under the current
> rules.
>
> James Freeman
>
> With keys to three VFR airplanes and a hangar trapped under a class B
> "shelf"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: IFR certification for homebuilts |
> The list discussion regarding IFR certification for
> homebuilts was the first that I had ever considered or
> heard that there might be different standards for
> homebuilts and certified standard category aircraft.
> Aside from the pilot being IFR rated and current,
> what is involved in getting approval to operate our
> RV-s and other homebuilts as IFR aircraft?
Other than the prohibition of IFR or Night flying during the test period,
there are no different standards for homebuilts.
Some inspectors write more restrictive language into the operating
limitations if the plane isn't equipped for IFR/Night at inspection time,
but most operating limitations just say "VFR/Day only unless equipped for
IFR/Night per the FARs..."
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~280 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brian Chesteen" <bchesteen(at)planetc.com> |
Subject: | RV Fall Classic at Lebanon Tn. |
Is the RV Fall Classic at Lebanon Tn. this Sat the 22nd still a go if we can
fly?
Brian Chesteen
RV-7A Emp (Almost Done)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: IO-360B1B Help Request |
Mimi,
The good news is that I have an IO-360B1B in my RV-4 that up until Sept 11
has run great.
The bad news is that the plane is being held hostage outside at the Oakland,
CA airport.
If and when I ever see the plane again I will get the part numbers for you.
Bart at Aerosport power built mine and should be able to help you.
Rob Hickman
(RV-4 Under SFO Class B)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: KT 78 transponder |
Hey guys, does anybody have a wiring connection diagram for a KT 78 you could
fax me??
Sorry this post is about building RV's and does not reflect my opinions about
current events.
Kevin in WA
-9A was flying, then not flying, now might fly again
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Subject: | Re: KT 78 transponder |
I believe it is the same as the KT 76
----- Original Message -----
From: <Im7shannon(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 10:35 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: KT 78 transponder
Hey guys, does anybody have a wiring connection diagram for a KT 78 you
could
fax me??
Sorry this post is about building RV's and does not reflect my opinions
about
current events.
Kevin in WA
-9A was flying, then not flying, now might fly again
________________________________________________________________________________
Thread-Topic: RV-List Digest: 93 Msgs - 09/19/01
Thread-Index: AcFBtaidxZ0mxuF9TMyn+B9dJdo+PwASjI5w
From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
I have the aileron manual bias system in my -6 that is mated to a MAC
trim servo...works flawlessly. I have never come close to running out
of trim authority, even solo when running the right tank dry to fix the
fuel level sender. The trim servo is mounted on web of a belly rib, the
shaft is connected to the arm of the manual trim lever rotated 90 deg.,
shortened, and mounted about 2" below the seat pans.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 210 hours
working on weapons guidance system
> ______________________________________________________________
> __________________
> From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Aileron Trim Finally Completed
>
>
> Well, I finally finished my modified version of Vans electric Aileron
> trim on my -6. While the finished product turned out pretty nice, I
> don't know that I'd do it that way again. I haven't seen the
> plans for
> the electric aileron trim on the -7 but I've got a suspicion that it's
> going to be similar to the -8 and use the servo to manipulate the bias
> spring system. While I have a fundamental (in theory)
> aversion to this
> way of trimming the control surfaces, it would certainly be an easier
> way of doing things. You can see the finished installation here.
> http://www.bmnellis.com/wings_ailerons_trim.htm
>
> Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> Plainfield, IL
> RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
> Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: We Can FLY!!! Not all of us |
Hey Rob,
Just talked to ATC. If you file IFR once you clear the class B you can
cancel. I live in Oakland, if I can be of any help getting you out let me
know my phone number is 510-414-0620. By the way Livermore or San Jose are
closer.
Cash Copeland
In a message dated 9/20/2001 7:06:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
svanarts(at)unionsafe.com writes:
> >
>
> Rent a flatbed truck and stick a wide load sign on the back. Then leave the
> wings on and truck her out to Tracy.
>
> --
> Scott (at least your plane flies) VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
> Network Administrator
> Union Safe Deposit Bank
> 209-946-5116
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RobHickman(at)aol.com [mailto:RobHickman(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 6:51 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: We Can FLY!!! Not all of us
>
>
>
> All airspace under the outer limits of class B is still grounded.
>
> Therefore my RV is still in Oakland, I did have FSS suggest I take the
> wings
> off and move it out from under the class B.
>
> Rob Hickman
> N401RH Stuck Under Class B "New Enhanced Class B"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Fellow RV enthusiasts,
I got my airworthiness certificate for my RV-6 on 9/9/01. Happy day!! I was
to get my checkout from Mike Seager the following Friday at the chapter 486
RV forum in Fulton County NY. Needless to say, the tragic events of 9/11
foiled those plans. So here I sit with a plane that took me 6 years to
complete and no way to fly it. why, you ask? Because the insurance company
requires me to have at least 1 hour with a certified flight instructor in
(any) Van's aircraft. I live in Vermont. Does anyone know of anybody on the
East coast (preferably North east) that could help me out? If so please reply
to this list, nowakod(at)us.ibm.com, or call me at 802-899-5163 or 802 288-3359
and let me know. It is hard to believe that the most dicourgaging part of
this project is after it is done!( obviously poor planning on my part).
Thanks in advance for any info you may have. This, like every other obstacle,
will be overcome.
Don Nowakowski
RV-6, 0-320 Sensenich fixed pitch propeller, sliding canopy
N513DN Complete!! but unable to go : - (
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
Call 1-888-EAA-INFO (1-888-322-4636) and ask for their list of planes and
CFIs. The EAA may just have one already OR if you have a friend with a
plane and a CFI he trusts, then
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: <Aero7ac(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 2:48 PM
Subject: RV-List: (no subject)
Fellow RV enthusiasts,
I got my airworthiness certificate for my RV-6 on 9/9/01. Happy day!! I was
to get my checkout from Mike Seager the following Friday at the chapter 486
RV forum in Fulton County NY. Needless to say, the tragic events of 9/11
foiled those plans. So here I sit with a plane that took me 6 years to
complete and no way to fly it. why, you ask? Because the insurance company
requires me to have at least 1 hour with a certified flight instructor in
(any) Van's aircraft. I live in Vermont. Does anyone know of anybody on the
East coast (preferably North east) that could help me out? If so please
reply
to this list, nowakod(at)us.ibm.com, or call me at 802-899-5163 or 802 288-3359
and let me know. It is hard to believe that the most dicourgaging part of
this project is after it is done!( obviously poor planning on my part).
Thanks in advance for any info you may have. This, like every other
obstacle,
will be overcome.
Don Nowakowski
RV-6, 0-320 Sensenich fixed pitch propeller, sliding canopy
N513DN Complete!! but unable to go : - (
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
Subject: | We Can FLY!!! Not all of us |
Very true. I was looking at the Mode C veil and not the Class B wedding
cake. I stand corrected.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: JusCash(at)aol.com [mailto:JusCash(at)aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: We Can FLY!!! Not all of us
Hey Rob,
Just talked to ATC. If you file IFR once you clear the class B you can
cancel. I live in Oakland, if I can be of any help getting you out let me
know my phone number is 510-414-0620. By the way Livermore or San Jose are
closer.
Cash Copeland
In a message dated 9/20/2001 7:06:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
svanarts(at)unionsafe.com writes:
>
>
> Rent a flatbed truck and stick a wide load sign on the back. Then leave
the
> wings on and truck her out to Tracy.
>
> --
> Scott (at least your plane flies) VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
> Network Administrator
> Union Safe Deposit Bank
> 209-946-5116
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RobHickman(at)aol.com [mailto:RobHickman(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 6:51 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: We Can FLY!!! Not all of us
>
>
>
> All airspace under the outer limits of class B is still grounded.
>
> Therefore my RV is still in Oakland, I did have FSS suggest I take the
> wings
> off and move it out from under the class B.
>
> Rob Hickman
> N401RH Stuck Under Class B "New Enhanced Class B"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
Subject: | Re: aileron trim |
The type of system that you describe is exactly what I was talking about and
I think it's the same type that is used on the -8 and probably the other
models. The reason I chose not to go with the bias spring was because I
wanted to avoid the "breakout force" and imbalance that a bias spring system
"theoretically" imposes. I realize that it's probably insignificant but
it's there none-the-less.
As I said, in the future I'd probably go with that type of system just
because it would be so much easier to build and install.
Mike
>
> I have the aileron manual bias system in my -6 that is mated to a MAC
> trim servo...works flawlessly. I have never come close to running out
> of trim authority, even solo when running the right tank dry to fix the
> fuel level sender. The trim servo is mounted on web of a belly rib, the
> shaft is connected to the arm of the manual trim lever rotated 90 deg.,
> shortened, and mounted about 2" below the seat pans.
>
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 210 hours
> working on weapons guidance system
>
>
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > __________________
> > From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
> > Subject: RV-List: Aileron Trim Finally Completed
> >
> >
> > Well, I finally finished my modified version of Vans electric Aileron
> > trim on my -6. While the finished product turned out pretty nice, I
> > don't know that I'd do it that way again. I haven't seen the
> > plans for
> > the electric aileron trim on the -7 but I've got a suspicion that it's
> > going to be similar to the -8 and use the servo to manipulate the bias
> > spring system. While I have a fundamental (in theory)
> > aversion to this
> > way of trimming the control surfaces, it would certainly be an easier
> > way of doing things. You can see the finished installation here.
> > http://www.bmnellis.com/wings_ailerons_trim.htm
> >
> > Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> > Plainfield, IL
> > RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
> > Stinson 108-2 N9666K
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
Sorry, something got erased.
Call 1-888-EAA-INFO (1-888-322-4636) and ask for their list of planes and
CFIs. The EAA may just have one already OR if you have a friend with a
plane and a CFI he trusts, then make application for your friend's plane.
It is free, one of the benefits of EAA membership.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: <Aero7ac(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 2:48 PM
Subject: RV-List: (no subject)
Fellow RV enthusiasts,
I got my airworthiness certificate for my RV-6 on 9/9/01. Happy day!! I was
to get my checkout from Mike Seager the following Friday at the chapter 486
RV forum in Fulton County NY. Needless to say, the tragic events of 9/11
foiled those plans. So here I sit with a plane that took me 6 years to
complete and no way to fly it. why, you ask? Because the insurance company
requires me to have at least 1 hour with a certified flight instructor in
(any) Van's aircraft. I live in Vermont. Does anyone know of anybody on the
East coast (preferably North east) that could help me out? If so please
reply
to this list, nowakod(at)us.ibm.com, or call me at 802-899-5163 or 802 288-3359
and let me know. It is hard to believe that the most dicourgaging part of
this project is after it is done!( obviously poor planning on my part).
Thanks in advance for any info you may have. This, like every other
obstacle,
will be overcome.
Don Nowakowski
RV-6, 0-320 Sensenich fixed pitch propeller, sliding canopy
N513DN Complete!! but unable to go : - (
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> |
Subject: | Re: SoCAL flight Orders |
> SOCAL Approach was contacted for VFR flight following to Apple Valley for
breakfast.
> General Gummy Bear was not on the airport with his F-HRII so Birdstrike
> ate alone.
Gary,
While I agree with most of comments, I would like to stay a Major. :-)
I was always in trouble with the higher brass.
I did get to the airport in time to see Fred and Glen(?) land and had lunch
with them. It was sure good to see RVs airborne. Their formation departure
looked great. Fred looked like he was welded to lead.
Tom - "GummiBear"
Major, USAF (Retired)
exF-4G Wild Weasel Instructor Pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: SoCAL flight Orders |
In a message dated 9/20/2001 4:09:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rv6flier(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> Komadant Birdstrike
> Southern California Wing Van's Air Force
> Cable (CCB) detachment
>
> Hope you enjoyed this.
> My asbestos suit is on. Flame away.
>
>
> ====
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" F/A-RV6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 944.5 Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
>
>
>
Gary...............What a load!
Fred (Flintstone) LaForge RV-4 0-360 CS EAA Tech counselor
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: RV Fall Classic at Lebanon Tn. |
Yes
John
Brian Chesteen wrote:
>
>
>Is the RV Fall Classic at Lebanon Tn. this Sat the 22nd still a go if we can
>fly?
>
>
>Brian Chesteen
>RV-7A Emp (Almost Done)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
Subject: | Re: Avionics Shop In The Northeast ? |
Scott, remember that a "pitot/static" test is not required unless you are going
to fly IFR.
91.411 which requires that the encoder be checked applies only to IFR and 91.413
says only that the transponder must be tested every 2 years but it does not have
to be done in the airplane, it can be tested on the bench.
So, for VFR, the transponder has to be checked every 2 years and the
encoder/static system never, after the initial installation (or perhaps
maintenance)
Dave -6 not flying (anymore) SoCal
Scott Gesele wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
> Can anyone recommend an avionics shop in the Northeast US? I have a King
> KX-125 whose nav side just went dead and I'm due for a pitot static test.
> Two years ago I was charged $400 for that pitot static test at Islip
> Avionics. That price appears to be quite high. I'm located on Long Island,
> so any shop within 200 nm would be an easy trip.
>
> Any feedback or info would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Scott Gesele
> N506RV 450+ hr and looking forward to getting back into the air
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
It seems this gentleman is selling his RV with ALL proceeds going to help
victims of the WTC bombing. Check out:
http://www.e-mds.com/sept11fund/aircraft.html
Don Mei
RV-4
3B9 - Chester, CT
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Was RV 10, Now SMA Diesels |
In a message dated 9/20/01 9:13:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
nhunger(at)sprint.ca writes:
<< I was very keen to have an SMA engine power my 6A but have lately been
discouraged. I have been emailing SMA several times in the last six months
asking to buy one of their new diesels but no joy. Notice them being a
little quiet lately? There is a rumor mill of course and it's heat and
vibration that is said to be holding things up. It sure would be better if
they would keep their webpage updated with their problems and triumphs so
we'd know. It appears to be almost a year behind. Are there any European
Listers that might know more? Are they selling these in Europe yet?
As for the installation package, they are supposed to have the same
dimensions and prop placement as Lycoming. It should be a straight forward
installation. Prop will turn slower so it will be quieter. We would be able
to use available cowls.
I thought there was a 182 some where in the states flying around with one of
these. Who knows anything about it? Someone must have seen it. How much
cooling air does it need? I heard the cowl gets butchered to let in more air
and vent more heat.
Perhaps it would help if SMA got email from everyone who is interested in
their engines. >>
Also there is some indication that the power pulses of the direct drive
diesel engines are very hard on existing props. This is per a report in LPM.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary Coonan" <gcoonan(at)home.com> |
Subject: | RV Fall Classic at Lebanon Tn. |
I'm down in M'boro, what time is the fly-in, my -7 in not complete but I
thought I would fly-in a borrowed plane. Any chance I could get ride in
a -6 from someone. I have never ridden in an RV and would love the
chance to obtain an RV grin.
Gary Coonan
Rockvale, TN
RV-7
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John McMahon
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Fall Classic at Lebanon Tn.
Yes
John
Brian Chesteen wrote:
>
>
>Is the RV Fall Classic at Lebanon Tn. this Sat the 22nd still a go if
we can
>fly?
>
>
>Brian Chesteen
>RV-7A Emp (Almost Done)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
Subject: | Safety wire - when to use |
Someone please explain the mysteries of safety wire to me ...
1) I'm confused as to the rhyme and reason behind which bolts get safetied
and which ones don't. I can't really detect a pattern. For instance, Van's
says to safety the 6 allen head bolts on the back of the governor - fine,
but why then didn't lycoming safety the nuts that hold the magnetos on?
Lycoming safetied the screws on top of my flow divider, but not the screw on
the top of the engine-driven fuel pump. Why is this? Or should they all be
safetied?
2) Seems like .032 is the standard safety wire size. What hole should I
drill for this size wire?
3) Any tips on drilling allen head bolts? If I find the guy at McCaulley
who spec'd undrilled bolts...
Matthew
8A Finishing, N48PP reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "William Costello" <wmcenterprises(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Fw: Flight Announcement |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryant_Steve" <Bryant_Steve(at)xmail.asd.k12.ak.us>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 12:30 PM
Subject: SWPC: Flight Announcement
> As we try to resume a normal life style, this story
> may help and reassure.
> -----
> Aboard Flight 564
> by Peter Hannaford
>
> As it was at most U.S. airports, last Saturday was
> the first near-normal day at Denver International since the terrorist
> attacks.
>
> On United's Flight 564
>
> the door had just been locked and the plane was
> about to pull out of the gate when the captain came on the public address
> system.
>
> "I want to thank you brave folks for coming out
> today. We don't have any new instructions from the federal government, so
> from now on we're on our own."
>
> The passengers listened in total silence.
>
> He explained that airport security measures had
> pretty much solved the problem of firearms being carried
> aboard, but not weapons of the type the terrorists apparently used,
plastic
> knives or those fashioned from wood or ceramics.
>
> "Sometimes a potential hijacker will announce that
> he has a bomb. There are no bombs on this aircraft and if someone were to
> get up and make that claim, don't believe him.
>
> "If someone were to stand up,brandish something such
> as a plastic knife and say 'This is a hijacking' or words to that effect
> here is what you should do:
> Every one of you should stand up and immediately
> throw things at that person? pillows, books, magazines, eyeglasses, shoes
> ?anything that will throw him off balance and distract his attention. If
he
> has a confederate or two, do the same with them.
> Most important: get a blanket over him, then wrestle
> him to floor and keep him there. We'll land the plane at
> the nearest airport and the authorities will take it from there."
>
> "Remember, there will be one of him and maybe a few
> confederates, but there are 200 of you. You can overwhelm them.
>
> "The Declaration of Independence says 'We, the
> people' and that's just what it is when we're up in the air: we, the
people,
> vs. would-be terrorists. I don't think we are going to have any such
problem
> today or tomorrow or for a while, but some time down the road, it is going
> to happen again and I want you to know what to do.
>
> "Now, since we're a family for the next few hours,
> I'll ask you to turn to the person next to you, introduce yourself, tell
> them a little about yourself and ask them to do the same."
>
> The end of this remarkable speech brought sustained
> clapping from the passengers. He had put the matter in perspective. If
> only the passengers on those ill-fated flights last Tuesday had been given
> the same talk, I thought, they might be alive today. One group on United
> Flight 93, which crashed in a Pennsylvania field, apparently rushed the
> hijackers in an attempt to wrest control from them. While they perished,
> they succeeded in preventing the terrorist from attacking his intended
goal,
> possibly the White House or the Capitol.
>
> Procedures for dealing with hijackers were conceived
> in a time when the hijackers were usually seeking the release of jailed
> comrades or a large amount of money. Mass murder was not their goal.
> That short talk last Saturday by the pilot of Flight 564 should set a new
> standard of realism.
>
> Every passenger should learn the simple ? but potentially life-saving ?
> procedure he outlined. He showed his passengers that
> a hijacking does not have to result in hopelessness and terror, but
> victory over the perpetrators.
>
> The Airline Pilots Association, the pilots' union,
> last week dropped its opposition to stronger cockpit doors and is now
> calling for retrofits.
> (It's opposition was based on pilot concerns about getting
> out easily in emergency situations.) The scandal of easily penetrated
> airport security will result incongressional calls for a federal takeover
of
> the security system.
>
> Previous efforts to reform security procedures and
> raise standards have been talked to death. This time, however, no lobbying
> efforts must be allowed to prevent airport security from getting the
reforms
> that are needed: federal operation, rigorous training, decent pay and no
> foreign nationals eligible for employment.
>
> Peter Hannaford is a public affairs consultant Terrorist Attacks on U.S. -
> How can you help?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com> |
Subject: | Was RV 10, Now SMA Diesels |
I saw their 182 at OSH this year, and to say the cowl was butchered is an
understatement (IMO). I think there is a picture of it on their web site,
and from talking to the rep there are two concerns they have before
releasing the engine for homebuilt use: 1) Heat (hence the huge scoop on
the 182) and 2) height. The installed package is very tall from top to
bottom; so much so that the rep told me that that is their highest priority
at this time as it won't fit in any twins or current homebuilts without
major modification to the cowlings. Their goal is same size/etc. as a
Lycoming, but I don't think they are quite there yet...
Cheers,
Brad
RV6AQ...
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com [mailto:Vanremog(at)aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Was RV 10, Now SMA Diesels
In a message dated 9/20/01 9:13:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
nhunger(at)sprint.ca writes:
<< I was very keen to have an SMA engine power my 6A but have lately been
discouraged. I have been emailing SMA several times in the last six months
asking to buy one of their new diesels but no joy. Notice them being a
little quiet lately? There is a rumor mill of course and it's heat and
vibration that is said to be holding things up. It sure would be better if
they would keep their webpage updated with their problems and triumphs so
we'd know. It appears to be almost a year behind. Are there any European
Listers that might know more? Are they selling these in Europe yet?
As for the installation package, they are supposed to have the same
dimensions and prop placement as Lycoming. It should be a straight forward
installation. Prop will turn slower so it will be quieter. We would be able
to use available cowls.
I thought there was a 182 some where in the states flying around with one
of
these. Who knows anything about it? Someone must have seen it. How much
cooling air does it need? I heard the cowl gets butchered to let in more
air
and vent more heat.
Perhaps it would help if SMA got email from everyone who is interested in
their engines. >>
Also there is some indication that the power pulses of the direct drive
diesel engines are very hard on existing props. This is per a report in
LPM.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Eric Newton" <enewton57(at)cableone.net> |
Subject: | Waiting for Inspection |
Since its fairly slow on the list (you are all probably flying), I
thought I would solicit everyone's opinion. I sent the local FSDO my
paperwork and application for airworthiness certificate about three
weeks ago and haven't heard a word from them. Local builders tell me
they usually get a call within a week from our local FSDO. I know with
all of the events that have happened since 9/11 they are probably very
busy right now. So here are my thoughts:
1. Leave them alone, they will eventually call.
2. Call just be sure they actually received the application and it
didn't get lost in the mail.
3. Call and ask how long the delay will be.
4. Call a DAR and schedule an inspection.
With option number 1, I worry that maybe in all of the confusion it got
lost. Here I am waiting and they never got it to begin with.
With numbers 2 & 3, I'm afraid they will get angry and make my life
miserable if and when they get around to inspecting.
With number 4, Murphy's law says the minute I write the check to the
DAR, the Feds will call and schedule an appointment.
So what is the consensus? Any opinions?
Thanks,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS (no class B airspace here)
RV-6A (waiting for the FAA inspection)
www.ericsrv6a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
Subject: | Waiting for Inspection |
I would call them to confirm that they received it and see if they volunteer
any helpful information.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Eric Newton
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 7:42 AM
Subject: RV-List: Waiting for Inspection
Since its fairly slow on the list (you are all probably flying), I
thought I would solicit everyone's opinion. I sent the local FSDO my
paperwork and application for airworthiness certificate about three
weeks ago and haven't heard a word from them. Local builders tell me
they usually get a call within a week from our local FSDO. I know with
all of the events that have happened since 9/11 they are probably very
busy right now. So here are my thoughts:
1. Leave them alone, they will eventually call.
2. Call just be sure they actually received the application and it
didn't get lost in the mail.
3. Call and ask how long the delay will be.
4. Call a DAR and schedule an inspection.
With option number 1, I worry that maybe in all of the confusion it got
lost. Here I am waiting and they never got it to begin with.
With numbers 2 & 3, I'm afraid they will get angry and make my life
miserable if and when they get around to inspecting.
With number 4, Murphy's law says the minute I write the check to the
DAR, the Feds will call and schedule an appointment.
So what is the consensus? Any opinions?
Thanks,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS (no class B airspace here)
RV-6A (waiting for the FAA inspection)
www.ericsrv6a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
Subject: | Re: Was RV 10, Now SMA Diesels |
Check out pages 17 (SMA Advertisement) and page 52 of the latest issue of
AOPA Pilot. Page 52 discusses (briefly) the TAE and SMA diesels. They've
got a picture of the Cessna 182 that was at OSH and the look could best be
described as a a cross between an airplane and a Whale Shark. With that big
opening, if they can't keep the engine cool then they've got some serious
problems. :)
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
----- Original Message -----
From: "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 9:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Was RV 10, Now SMA Diesels
>
>
> I saw their 182 at OSH this year, and to say the cowl was butchered is an
> understatement (IMO). I think there is a picture of it on their web site,
> and from talking to the rep there are two concerns they have before
> releasing the engine for homebuilt use: 1) Heat (hence the huge scoop on
> the 182) and 2) height. The installed package is very tall from top to
> bottom; so much so that the rep told me that that is their highest
priority
> at this time as it won't fit in any twins or current homebuilts without
> major modification to the cowlings. Their goal is same size/etc. as a
> Lycoming, but I don't think they are quite there yet...
>
> Cheers,
> Brad
> RV6AQ...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanremog(at)aol.com [mailto:Vanremog(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 11:20 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Was RV 10, Now SMA Diesels
>
>
> In a message dated 9/20/01 9:13:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> nhunger(at)sprint.ca writes:
>
> << I was very keen to have an SMA engine power my 6A but have lately been
> discouraged. I have been emailing SMA several times in the last six
months
> asking to buy one of their new diesels but no joy. Notice them being a
> little quiet lately? There is a rumor mill of course and it's heat and
> vibration that is said to be holding things up. It sure would be better
if
> they would keep their webpage updated with their problems and triumphs so
> we'd know. It appears to be almost a year behind. Are there any European
> Listers that might know more? Are they selling these in Europe yet?
>
> As for the installation package, they are supposed to have the same
> dimensions and prop placement as Lycoming. It should be a straight
forward
> installation. Prop will turn slower so it will be quieter. We would be
able
> to use available cowls.
>
> I thought there was a 182 some where in the states flying around with one
> of
> these. Who knows anything about it? Someone must have seen it. How much
> cooling air does it need? I heard the cowl gets butchered to let in more
> air
> and vent more heat.
>
> Perhaps it would help if SMA got email from everyone who is interested in
> their engines. >>
>
> Also there is some indication that the power pulses of the direct drive
> diesel engines are very hard on existing props. This is per a report in
> LPM.
>
> -GV (RV-6A N1GV)
> vanremog(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
Subject: | Aileron Gap Seal Installation |
Can anyone out there tell me if they used the AN3-3 rivets to install
the aileron gap seal to the top wing skin on a -6? If so, How did you
install those rivets? The plans call out for 3-3 rivets but I can't for
the live of me see how to install those rivets without removing the top
skin. Since my top skin is already installed and riveted on, that
option is out of the question.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com> |
Subject: | Waiting for Inspection |
I would call:
A You do have legitimate business with that office.
B Under the circumstances the procedures might have changed and you
will never know
unless you ask.
C The President did tell us that we should get back to business as
normal as possible.
Be extremely polite, and be prepared to be understanding and not to take
offense if they are not.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Newton [mailto:enewton57(at)cableone.net]
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 9:42 AM
> To: RV-List
> Subject: RV-List: Waiting for Inspection
>
>
>
> Since its fairly slow on the list (you are all probably flying), I
> thought I would solicit everyone's opinion. I sent the local FSDO my
> paperwork and application for airworthiness certificate about three
> weeks ago and haven't heard a word from them. Local builders tell me
> they usually get a call within a week from our local FSDO. I
> know with
> all of the events that have happened since 9/11 they are probably very
> busy right now. So here are my thoughts:
>
> 1. Leave them alone, they will eventually call.
> 2. Call just be sure they actually received the application and it
> didn't get lost in the mail.
> 3. Call and ask how long the delay will be.
> 4. Call a DAR and schedule an inspection.
>
> With option number 1, I worry that maybe in all of the
> confusion it got
> lost. Here I am waiting and they never got it to begin with.
> With numbers 2 & 3, I'm afraid they will get angry and make my life
> miserable if and when they get around to inspecting.
> With number 4, Murphy's law says the minute I write the check to the
> DAR, the Feds will call and schedule an appointment.
>
> So what is the consensus? Any opinions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS (no class B airspace here)
> RV-6A (waiting for the FAA inspection)
> www.ericsrv6a.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Waiting for Inspection |
From: | Denis Walsh <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net> |
on 9/21/01 09:50, Don Hyde at DonH(at)axonn.com wrote:
>
> I would call:
>
> A You do have legitimate business with that office.
> B Under the circumstances the procedures might have changed and you
> will never know
> unless you ask.
> C The President did tell us that we should get back to business as
> normal as possible.
>
> Be extremely polite, and be prepared to be understanding and not to take
> offense if they are not.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Eric Newton [mailto:enewton57(at)cableone.net]
>> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 9:42 AM
>> To: RV-List
>> Subject: RV-List: Waiting for Inspection
>>
>>
>>
>> Since its fairly slow on the list (you are all probably flying), I
>> thought I would solicit everyone's opinion. I sent the local FSDO my
>> paperwork and application for airworthiness certificate about three
>> weeks ago and haven't heard a word from them. Local builders tell me
>> they usually get a call within a week from our local FSDO. I
>> know with
>> all of the events that have happened since 9/11 they are probably very
>> busy right now. So here are my thoughts:
>>
>> 1. Leave them alone, they will eventually call.
>> 2. Call just be sure they actually received the application and it
>> didn't get lost in the mail.
>> 3. Call and ask how long the delay will be.
>> 4. Call a DAR and schedule an inspection.
>>
>> With option number 1, I worry that maybe in all of the
>> confusion it got
>> lost. Here I am waiting and they never got it to begin with.
>> With numbers 2 & 3, I'm afraid they will get angry and make my life
>> miserable if and when they get around to inspecting.
>> With number 4, Murphy's law says the minute I write the check to the
>> DAR, the Feds will call and schedule an appointment.
>>
>> So what is the consensus? Any opinions?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS (no class B airspace here)
>> RV-6A (waiting for the FAA inspection)
>> www.ericsrv6a.com
The chance that you will get to talk to a human if you call is nil. Just
leave a message on the voicemail .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "William Costello" <wmcenterprises(at)earthlink.net> |
Hello,
I know there have been many, many emails about current happenings. But I
think this one puts the challenge to each of us to decide where we stand --
now, and over the long haul. The message below is long -- 3 full pages I
have saved in a Word document. It is also not easy reading, but needs to be
thought through. I urge you to do so.
Bill Costello
This truly defines a "must read":
Hello Everyone,
As many of you know my son is a Cadet at the United States Air Force
Academy. I received this today and I believe that it needs to be read and
understood by every American.
************************************************************
This was written by my academic advisor at the Academy. He was not only
one of the most brilliant men I've ever met, but also an individual who
combined that brilliance with common sense to lead others. His words are
the ones that haven't been heard yet but I believe will come to be true
before we have the chance to recover from this initial tragedy.
From: Dr. Tony Kern, Lt Col, USAF (Ret)
Recently, I was asked to look at the recent events through the lens of
military history. I have joined the cast of thousands who have written an
"open letter to Americans."
Dear friends and fellow Americans 14
September, 2001
Like everyone else in this great country, I am reeling from last week's
attack on our sovereignty. But unlike some, I am not reeling from surprise.
As a career soldier and a student and teacher of military history, I have a
different perspective and I think you should hear it. This war will be won
or lost by the American citizens, not diplomats, politicians or soldiers.
Let me briefly explain.
In spite of what the media, and even our own government is telling us, this
act was not committed by a group of mentally deranged fanatics. To dismiss
them as such would be among the gravest of mistakes. This attack was
committed by a ferocious, intelligent and dedicated adversary. Don't take
this the wrong way. I don't admire these men and I deplore their tactics,
but I respect their capabilities. The many parallels that have been made
with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor are apropos. Not only because it
was a brilliant sneak attack against a complacent America, but also because
we may well be pulling our new adversaries out of caves 30 years after we
think this war is over, just like my father's generation had to do with the
formidable Japanese in the years following WW II.
These men hate the United States with all of their being, and we must not
underestimate the power of their moral commitment. Napoleon, perhaps the
world's greatest combination of soldier and statesman, stated "the moral is
to the physical as three is to one." Patton thought the Frenchman
underestimated its importance and said moral conviction was five times more
important in battle than physical strength. Our enemies are willing -
better said anxious-to give their lives for their cause. How committed are
we America? And for how long?
In addition to demonstrating great moral conviction, the recent attack
demonstrated a mastery of some of the basic fundamentals of warfare taught
to most military officers worldwide, namely simplicity, security and
surprise. When I first heard rumors that some of these men may have been
trained at our own Air War College, it made perfect sense to me. This was
not a random act of violence, and we can expect the same sort of military
competence to be displayed in the battle to come.
This war will escalate, with a good portion of it happening right here in
the good ol' U.S. of A. These men will not go easily into the night. They
do not fear us. We must not fear them. In spite of our overwhelming
conventional strength as the world's only "superpower" (a truly silly term),
we are the underdog in this fight.
As you listen to the carefully scripted rhetoric designed to prepare us for
the march for war, please realize that America is not equipped or seriously
trained for the battle ahead. To be certain, our soldiers are much better
than the enemy, and we have some excellent "counter-terrorist"
organizations, but they are mostly trained for hostage rescues, airfield
seizures, or the occasional "body snatch," (which may come in handy). We
will be fighting a war of annihilation, because if their early efforts are
any indication, our enemy is ready and willing to die to the last man.
Eradicating the enemy will be costly and time consuming. They have already
deployed their forces in as many as 20 countries, and are likely living the
lives of everyday citizens. Simply put, our soldiers will be tasked with a
search and destroy mission on multiple foreign landscapes, and the public
must be patient and supportive until the strategy and tactics can be worked
out.
For the most part, our military is still in the process of redefining itself
and presided over by men and women who grew up with - and were promoted
because they excelled in - Cold War doctrine, strategy and tactics. This
will not be linear warfare, there will be no clear "centers of gravity" to
strike with high technology weapons. Our vast technological edge will
certainly be helpful, but it will not be decisive. Perhaps the perfect
metaphor for the coming battle was introduced by the terrorists themselves
aboard the hijacked aircraft-this will be a knife fight, and it will be won
or lost by the ingenuity and will of citizens and soldiers, not by software
or smart bombs. We must also be patient with our military leaders.
Unlike Americans who are eager to put this messy time behind us, our
adversaries have time on their side, and they will use it. They plan to
fight a battle of attrition, hoping to drag the battle out until the
American public loses its will to fight. This might be difficult to believe
in this euphoric time of flag waving and patriotism, but it is generally
acknowledged that America lacks the stomach for a long fight. We need only
look as far back as Vietnam, when North Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap
(also a military history teacher) defeated the United States of America
without ever winning a major tactical battle. American soldiers who marched
to war cheered on by flag waving Americans in 1965 were reviled and spat
upon less than three years later when they returned. Although we hope that
Usama Bin Laden is no Giap, he is certain to understand and employ the
concept. We can expect not only large doses of pain like the recent
attacks, but! also less audacious "sand in the gears" tactics, ranging from
livestock infestations to attacks at water supplies and power distribution
facilities. These attacks are designed to hit us in our "comfort zone"
forcing the average American to "pay more and play less" and eventually
eroding our resolve. But it can only work if we let it. It is clear to me
that the will of the American citizenry - you and I - is the center of
gravity the enemy has targeted. It will be the fulcrum upon which victory
or defeat will turn. He believes us to be soft, impatient, and
self-centered. He may be right, but if so, we must change. The Prussian
general Carl von Clausewitz, (the most often quoted and least read military
theorist in history), says that there is a "remarkable trinity of war" that
is composed of (1) the will of the people, (2) the political leadership of
the government, and (3) the chance and probability that plays out on the
field of battle, in that order. Every American citizen was in the
crosshairs of last Tuesday's attack, not just those that were unfortunate
enough to be in the World Trade Center or Pentagon. The will of the
American people will decide this war. If we are to win, it will be because
we have what it takes to persevere through a few more hits, learn from our!
mistakes, improvise, and adapt. If we can do that, we will eventually
prevail.
Everyone I've talked to in the past few days has shared a common
frustration, saying in one form or another "I just wish I could do
something!" You are already doing it. Just keep faith in America, and
continue to support your President and military, and the outcome is certain.
If we fail to do so, the outcome is equally certain.
God Bless America
Dr. Tony Kern, Lt Col, USAF (Ret)
Former Director of Military History, USAF Academy
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Seal Installation |
From: | Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>Can anyone out there tell me if they used the AN3-3 rivets to install
>the aileron gap seal to the top wing skin on a -6? If so, How did you
>install those rivets? The plans call out for 3-3 rivets but I can't for
>the live of me see how to install those rivets without removing the top
>skin. Since my top skin is already installed and riveted on, that
>option is out of the question.
>
If I recall correctly I just bent the bottom part of the fairing to get a
bucking bar in for the top rivets. I think pop rivets were used at the
bottom.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com> |
Subject: | Aileron Gap Seal Installation |
I managed to cram a bucking bar in the space and get one of mine riveted on
that way.
It turned out a mess. I drilled it out, made a new gap seal, and riveted it
with pop rivets.
Just rivet it with pop rivets. It's easy. It works.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Nellis [mailto:mnellis(at)peoplepc.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 10:14 AM
> To: rv6-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Aileron Gap Seal Installation
>
>
>
> Can anyone out there tell me if they used the AN3-3 rivets to install
> the aileron gap seal to the top wing skin on a -6? If so, How did you
> install those rivets? The plans call out for 3-3 rivets but
> I can't for
> the live of me see how to install those rivets without
> removing the top
> skin. Since my top skin is already installed and riveted on, that
> option is out of the question.
>
> Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> Plainfield, IL
> RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
> Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV6-List: Aileron Gap Seal Installation |
Yes, Mike it can be done. You need a footed bucking bar. Kind of looks
like an "s" shaped bar. Use the pointed foot while pulling the gap seal
away from the rear spar and you can reach it with that bar. Or, you could
cheat and use pop rivets like I have seen alot of airplanes with.
Paul Besing
RV-6A N197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Flying
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 8:13 AM
Subject: RV6-List: Aileron Gap Seal Installation
--> RV6-List message posted by: "Mike Nellis"
Can anyone out there tell me if they used the AN3-3 rivets to install
the aileron gap seal to the top wing skin on a -6? If so, How did you
install those rivets? The plans call out for 3-3 rivets but I can't for
the live of me see how to install those rivets without removing the top
skin. Since my top skin is already installed and riveted on, that
option is out of the question.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Seal Installation |
Mike,
I had my top skins riveted on first, also. I bent the fairing up until I
could get a long back-rivet set in there (my wife was holding the bucking
bar on the top of the skin. This force tended to make some of the clecoes
pop out, so for the next one I'll probably clamp it as well as cleco (or
maybe use one of those wingnut clecoes. It's not easy to do, but I did it.
The rivets that go into the spar were driven with a normal 1/8" set and
bucking bar. No pop rivets were used.
Jim Bower
St. Louis, MO
RV-6A N143DJ
Wings (Fuselage parts inventoried and waiting)
>From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Aileron Gap Seal Installation
>Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:13:39 -0500
>
>
>Can anyone out there tell me if they used the AN3-3 rivets to install
>the aileron gap seal to the top wing skin on a -6? If so, How did you
>install those rivets? The plans call out for 3-3 rivets but I can't for
>the live of me see how to install those rivets without removing the top
>skin. Since my top skin is already installed and riveted on, that
>option is out of the question.
>
>Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
>Plainfield, IL
>RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
>Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Seal Installation |
From: | Scott.Fink(at)microchip.com |
09/21/2001 09:42:26 AM,
Serialize complete at 09/21/2001 09:42:26 AM
Yes I did my top skins first and used AN3-3 on my -6. I just used an
offset bucking bar (from Avery's, the one that looks kind of like a "T",
their part number 625, go to
http://coldfusion.averytools.com/shopping.cfm)to buck the rivits before I
riveted the gap seal to the spar.
Scott
RV-6 left wing
"Mike Nellis"
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
09/21/2001 08:13 AM
Please respond to rv-list
To:
cc:
Subject: RV-List: Aileron Gap Seal Installation
Can anyone out there tell me if they used the AN3-3 rivets to install
the aileron gap seal to the top wing skin on a -6? If so, How did you
install those rivets? The plans call out for 3-3 rivets but I can't for
the live of me see how to install those rivets without removing the top
skin. Since my top skin is already installed and riveted on, that
option is out of the question.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Seal Installation |
Yes, Mike it can be done. You need a footed bucking bar. Kind of looks
like an "s" shaped bar. Use the pointed foot while pulling the gap seal
away from the rear spar and you can reach it with that bar. Or, you could
cheat and use pop rivets like I have seen alot of airplanes with.
Paul Besing
RV-6A N197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Flying
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 8:13 AM
Subject: RV-List: Aileron Gap Seal Installation
Can anyone out there tell me if they used the AN3-3 rivets to install
the aileron gap seal to the top wing skin on a -6? If so, How did you
install those rivets? The plans call out for 3-3 rivets but I can't for
the live of me see how to install those rivets without removing the top
skin. Since my top skin is already installed and riveted on, that
option is out of the question.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Seal Installation |
Mike: Hopefully you have not yet riveted the bottom edge of the gap seal.
Assuming that, you can lift he bottom edge enough to slide a long skinny
bucking bar under it and buck the 3-3s. I worked by myself so I used two
short pieces of 1X2 wood on each side of the bucking bar to hold the gap seal
free of the bar so the bar was free. A little slow and awkward because of
having to relocate the pieces of wood and bar for each rivet but it worked OK.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
Subject: | proseal on canopies |
Jim,
I had good luck using a syringe to apply proseal on my tanks. You can see a
picture of what I used on this web page:
http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/tanks.html
It is shown on the 5th picture on the page. I used a tongue depressor to
load the proseal into the syringe. I had tried a 35cc syringe but it took
too much force to depress the plunger. The 20cc syringe worked much better.
Applying a 1/16 inch diameter bead is easy with this method.
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
-----Original Message-----
I would love to use Proseal to seal up the edges left between the canopy and
the fairing but I don't have the slightest idea how to get a bead of it
small enough to insert between these two. I need a bead about 1/8 to 1/16
inch in diameter. How did others do this and are there cake decorating
tools involved :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Glenn & Judi" <dirtyrottenscoundrels(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Aileron Gap Seal Installation |
Mike,
Rivet the aileron gap seal/top skin rivets before pop-riveting the aileron
gap seal/aft spar. You'll have to pull the gap seal back to get a bucking
bar back there.
-Glenn Gordon
Buffalo Grove, IL
N442E (reserved)
At Paint!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Nellis
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 10:14 AM
Subject: RV-List: Aileron Gap Seal Installation
Can anyone out there tell me if they used the AN3-3 rivets to install
the aileron gap seal to the top wing skin on a -6? If so, How did you
install those rivets? The plans call out for 3-3 rivets but I can't for
the live of me see how to install those rivets without removing the top
skin. Since my top skin is already installed and riveted on, that
option is out of the question.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
Subject: | Oil Temperatures (Again!) |
The archives have a lot of posts wherein RV-ers say they reach a certain oil
temperature after climbing to some altitude, and then it drops back to what
you might call a "cruise" oil temperature - that is, after temperature
stabilization.
My question: How long (in minutes) does this take in your RV6/6A ? - those
RV4's seem to run so cool that information from that group may not mean much
to me.
Any response would be appreciated, even if it's only a gut guess from your
experience.
Thanks
John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "RV4" <VansRV4GRVMJ(at)btinternet.com> |
Subject: | Re: generous RVer |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Thompson" <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: generous RVer
There is a rv6 for sale on ebay, $90,000 US. proceeds go to victims of last
weeks disasters.
marcel de ruiter
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Oil Temperatures (Again!) |
> My question: How long (in minutes) does this take in your RV6/6A ? -
those
> RV4's seem to run so cool that information from that group may not mean
much
> to me.
John,
It takes 5-6 minutes in my RV-8.
Randy Lervold
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
Subject: | Re: Oil Temperatures (Again!) |
> The archives have a lot of posts wherein RV-ers say they reach a certain oil
> temperature after climbing to some altitude, and then it drops back to what
> you might call a "cruise" oil temperature - that is, after temperature
> stabilization.
>
John,
I don't know if this answers your question, and either way, these are only very
rough estimates as I've never actually computed the numbers.
What I've noticed after I installed an oil cooler access door on my 6A is: on a
cool day if I take off, climb a few thousand feet and cruise with the cooler
door fully open my oil temps will only reach from 140-150. Once in cruise, if
I
close the door completely, within 5 minutes it climbs to about 180-190 and
stabilizes. However, once its warmed up, if I re-open the door all the way, it
might take 20-30 minutes for it to start to cool again, and then only dropping
down to the 160 range. It will not drop back to the original 140; at least not
in typical cruise or low power cruise settings.
On hot days with long climbs and the door fully closed I've seen 230-240 and
with the door open 170-180. On Texas hot days, I have no idea. Changes when
operating the door show the same pattern, fast to get hot - much slower to cool
down)
Overall, the cooler door works really well. I was flying much to cold before it
was installed. Now I can to adjust the doors position to reach proper cruise
temps in almost all conditions in the 180-190 range. I'd recommend the
installation to anyone.
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
http://buildersbooks.com
eCharts
http://eCharts.cc
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: proseal on canopies |
I recommend a product called "Lexel". I used it to seal my canopy on the
recommendation of a Mooney owner who used it in the replacement of his
windshield. It's a H/W store product (I got it at ACE). Before using it I
checked with the manuf. as to its suitability on plexi and got a green light
from them. I also tested it on a chunk of scrap, with no adverse effects. I
have experienced no crazing or other damage after 3+ yrs. It bonds quite
well (I did rough up the surface a bit and clean it really well) and is
clear (the main advantage over proseal IMHO). Cleans up with Naptha or
alcohol, neither of which are harmful to plexi.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~280 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Arthur Glaser <airplane(at)megsinet.net> |
Colin Koebel ,
David Bukowski ,
Daniel Drelich , dhoop ,
doc , earl stark ,
Gary Glaser , Jaugilas ,
Joy Otry , Kurt Faron ,
lou and shirley fish , marsha schwarz ,
matt gibson , miles jacobs ,
"PascomCorp(at)aol.com" ,
"Pegit2(at)aol.com" , Phil Branshaw ,
"rnielsen(at)isd.net" ,
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" ,
shakib a qutob , Sherry Berman-Robinson ,
"SSBubbe(at)aol.com" , sue gregor ,
"rv-list(at)matronics.com"
> Greg Kotulski wrote:
>
> > Election Day in the Republic
> >
> > Tuesday, September 11, 2001, there were many elections taking place all
> > over the
> > United States. Most of them were small, municipal and county elections.
> > Votes were
> > made on subjects ranging from who would be able to claim the candidacy of
> > a
> > particular party for a particular forthcoming election, to the winning of
> > such seats as a councilperson or mayor.
> >
> > But there was one vote taken that was not scheduled. No seat on any city
> > council was up for grabs. No amount of campaign support was at stake. No
> > determination on curfew, noise limits for parties, or whether or not a
> > stop
> > sign should be put up at an intersection was being decided. No scheduled
> > vote
> > was intended to affect the nation as a whole. But one did.
> >
> > On a speeding aircraft, only partially filled, somewhere over the farms of
> > Pennsylvania, a vote was taken. No other vote count was so heart
> > wrenching.
> > No other question so important was decided in these wide lands by so few.
> > And
> > their franchise claimed such a price, a price no person should ever be
> > forced
> > to pay.
> >
> > Three men spoke to their loved ones that day. United Airlines Flight 93
> > out
> > of Newark was hijacked, and the men heard through their phones that
> > thousands
> > were killed a short time before by two other airliners in New York.
> >
> > Their response humbles me.
> >
> > They took a vote.
> >
> > They voted whether to die resisting the monsters that came into their
> > lives
> > that Election Day. They voted on whether they would reach out and
> > extinguish
> > death by embracing it - whether they would die to save unknown people, in
> > unknown numbers, somewhere in the morning ahead of them, rushing ever
> > closer.
> >
> > And nothing in my life has prepared me to explain how I felt when I read
> > those four words this morning.
> >
> > They took a vote.
> >
> > Their names were: Mark Bingham, Jeremy Glick, and Thomas E. Burnett.
> >
> > --------------
> >
> > I'm still stunned that such greatness is so under reported.
> >
> > Next Election Day,
> > let us all remember Mark, Jeremy and Thomas, THEY VOTED
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
Went flying today. After over a week of turmoil, shock and emotional chaos,
we VFR airplane drivers are free to go. Well, most of us but not all.
I took a short flight in the practice area just to shake off the cobwebs.
Have a BFR due in October and want to make sure I can still turn 'round a
point. Oh hell yeah I can...on a wingtip if needbe. Neat airplanes these
RV's. No terrorist alive could ever dream of such splendor..freedom..and
satisfaction in doing such things. No matter how many buildings fall, or
how many of our beloved American brethren pass on, we have already won this
war. We can FLY.
Although my short trip into the sunny afternoon sky was greatly satisfying,
it was also bittersweet. I felt a subtle sadness unlike that which I have
felt in the past week. Looking skyward from my lofty perch, I could not
help but get misty eyed. To the fallen firemen, police, rescue workers,
office workers, and flight crews....this one is for YOU.
Proud to be a free flying AMERICAN,
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
Subject: | Flight Traning Restored |
One step closer, folks. See Below.
Paul Besing
RV-6A N197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Flying
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
FAA approves resumption of most flight training activities
9/21/2001 7:00:23 PM - The FAA has just released a notam permitting the
resumption of most flight training activities. The notam, which is effective
at 0000Z (8 p.m. ET) tonight, allows VFR flight training in non-turbojet
aircraft and gliders (weighing less than 12,500 pounds) outside of enhanced
Class B airspace.
Within enhanced Class B airspace, with the exception of the Boston enhanced
Class B and the Washington and New York exclusion areas (see TFR), VFR
flight training in single- and multi-engine piston-powered aircraft under
6,000 pounds is permitted. (Almost all single-engine and light twin piston
powered aircraft are less than 6,000).
VFR flight training is still prohibited in the Boston enhanced Class B and
in the Washington and New York exclusionary areas. (See AOPA's
plain-language guidance on notams.)
"We're absolutely delighted that the majority of the nation's flight
training operations can get back in the air this weekend," said AOPA
President Phil Boyer. "This is fantastic news for a segment of our industry
that was suffering greatly.
"AOPA is also pleased to have played a role in crafting the solution to
restoring flight training in the Class B areas. AOPA earlier this week gave
FAA a compilation of the number and weights of GA aircraft inside Class B
airspace. The association suggested that a temporary 6,000-pound weight
limit could be imposed to answer security concerns near major metropolitan
areas."
Conspicuously missing from this good news is permission for basic,
non-training VFR flight in enhanced Class B airspace
Boyer stated, "This is bizarre, and we expected VFR operations would be
approved concurrent with flight training." In raising this issue with the
FAA, it seems there is the perception of a greater element of control with f
light training than non-training operations. The agency has assured AOPA
they have a clear set of proposals to restore most VFR operations in
enhanced Class B airspace, but they now must be approved at a higher level
before they can proceed.
In addition, Boyer pressed for the relocation of aircraft from the
exclusionary Washington and New York areas. He was told that work on this is
progressing, with relief expected very shortly.
Boyer assured members that, "FAA isn't taking the weekend off on these
remaining issues, and neither is AOPA staff. We'll be working to assist FAA
in any manner to rapidly close the loopholes that are so critical to
expanding Class B VFR operations and the movement of aircraft in the two
most affected urban areas."
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | A certian letter |
Hi folks,
Either this morning or yesterday morning I received a post
(I think it was from this list) from a Middle easterner who has lived
in this country for about 35 years. He explained certian things about
Afganistan. I can't believe I threw it out. If anyone has a copy of it
could you please send me a copy. Thank you.
Larry Mac Donald
lm4(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: RV Fall Classic at Lebanon Tn. |
In a message dated 9/21/01 12:58:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
gcoonan(at)home.com writes:
<<
I'm down in M'boro, what time is the fly-in, my -7 in not complete but I
September 17, 2001 - September 21, 2001
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ln