RV-Archive.digest.vol-md
January 08, 2002 - January 14, 2002
> I've bought stuff from these guys in the past for race-car projects.
Lots
> of different sizes, shapes, etc. There are others out there too who
make
> NACA ducts cheap.
>
> http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/naca.htm
>
> jim
> Tampa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Garry LeGare
> To: Ross Mickey; The List
> Subject: RV-List: Re: NACA Vent
>
>
> Ross, I will be making the scoops or having Bob at Fairings Etc. make
them.
> But
> not until I test the new scoop and it's location, to make sure that
there
> are
> no problems such as exhaust gases getting in during certain flight
> configurations.
> Garry "Casper"
>
> Ross Mickey wrote:
>
> > Gary,
> > Are your going to be selling these beauties or renting out your plug
so I
> > could mold one?
> >
> > Ross Mickey
> >
> > >My scoop is 3.5 wide by 1.8 high and it is just a bit to small. my
next
> > scoop is
> > >going to be 5.25 wide by 2 high and I should have a report on how
it
> works
> > near
> > >the end of the month.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks for the tip Jim.
I checked it out and there is nothing applicable. No sweat though as it only
takes me a couple of hours to make a plug and mold that will make two parts at
one time.
Garry "Casper"
Jim Norman wrote:
>
> Gary,
> before you start "making" scoops, search the Web for those already made.
> I've bought stuff from these guys in the past for race-car projects. Lots
> of different sizes, shapes, etc. There are others out there too who make
> NACA ducts cheap.
>
> http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/naca.htm
>
> jim
> Tampa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Garry LeGare
> To: Ross Mickey; The List
> Subject: RV-List: Re: NACA Vent
>
>
> Ross, I will be making the scoops or having Bob at Fairings Etc. make them.
> But
> not until I test the new scoop and it's location, to make sure that there
> are
> no problems such as exhaust gases getting in during certain flight
> configurations.
> Garry "Casper"
>
> Ross Mickey wrote:
>
> > Gary,
> > Are your going to be selling these beauties or renting out your plug so I
> > could mold one?
> >
> > Ross Mickey
> >
> > >My scoop is 3.5 wide by 1.8 high and it is just a bit to small. my next
> > scoop is
> > >going to be 5.25 wide by 2 high and I should have a report on how it
> works
> > near
> > >the end of the month.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Yes you do Larry, or have a BS in Aero and extensive structural design
experience.
Garry "Casper"
Larry Bowen wrote:
>
> Ya gotta have cast-iron juevos or be a little crazy to cut a 5" hole in
> your plane without Van's blessing.
>
> In my humble, conservative, non-engineering opinion,
>
> Larry Bowen
> RV-8 fuse
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry LeGare
> > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 6:51 PM
> > To: Ross Mickey; The List
> > Subject: RV-List: Re: NACA Vent
> >
> >
> >
> > Ross, I will be making the scoops or having Bob at Fairings
> > Etc. make them. But not until I test the new scoop and it's
> > location, to make sure that there are no problems such as
> > exhaust gases getting in during certain flight
> > configurations. Garry "Casper"
> >
> > Ross Mickey wrote:
> >
> > > Gary,
> > > Are your going to be selling these beauties or renting out
> > your plug
> > > so I could mold one?
> > >
> > > Ross Mickey
> > >
> > > >My scoop is 3.5 wide by 1.8 high and it is just a bit to small. my
> > > >next
> > > scoop is
> > > >going to be 5.25 wide by 2 high and I should have a report
> > on how it
> > > >works
> > > near
> > > >the end of the month.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Eric, I don't think It is necessary to have holes in the aft fuselage close
out. I found that even with all the corrugated notches plugged there was still
a tremendous amount of air coming in from the tail cone. If you analyze the
structure you'll see there are many places for air to sneak through.
Garry "Casper"
Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com wrote:
>
> Hey Garry, I've been chewing on this myself. One thing I'm curious about in
> your situation. What type of passthrough for the air do you have for the
> air to get aft of the rear seat? I'm of course thinking in terms of a six,
> I'm assuming your NACA duct is behind the rear seat. I'm considering having
> my baggage wall louvered like the hotrod guys do with the hoods of their
> cars. Way back when I heard that the exit hole needs to be three times the
> size (roughly) of the inlet hole to have good air flow. I would need some
> serious louvers of some sort to feed a naca duct this size. I was just
> wondering how the air got to your duct.
>
> Thanks for all your work on this and sharing the info with us. I thank you,
> and my canopy skirts thank you.
>
> Eric
>
> Garry LeGare <"versadek"@earthlink.net>@matronics.com on 01/07/2002
> 11:58:20 PM
>
> Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> cc:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: NACA Vent
>
>
> You are correct a constant width ramp with less than a 11 degree divergence
> would work as well or possibly better, if we were trying to suck the air
> out of the tail. But we don't need no stinking suction. We gots lots o
> pressure in that there tail, so there. Okay now that no one is listening,
> my duct configuration is a cross between a submerged inlet and a ramp exit.
> The big secret with these inlets is not more than 11 degrees.
> Garry "Casper"
>
> "Owens, Laird" wrote:
>
> >
> > Now I'm no aerodyamicist (and I don't even play one on TV).....but I got
> a question.
> >
> > I know a NACA duct (or submerged inlet duct) works great pointed into the
> wind, but is it really the best shape for an exit duct????
> >
> > I understand how the NACA duct works (I use to have a copy of the
> original report from the late 40's), but I can't see how that shape helps
> evacuate air from a aft body. Might even be more drag than something
> simplier.
> >
> > Wouldn't some plan old constant width ramp exit work just as well? (Whole
> lot easier to build and adjust for testing).
> >
> > Hmmmm.....just thinking out loud (with lots of grinding noises).
> >
> > Laird
> > RV-6
> > SoCal (and NO....were not all liberals out here on the left coast)
> > From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Mon, Jan 7, 2002 6:35 PM
> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: NACA Vent
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> >
> > Gary,
> > before you start "making" scoops, search the Web for those already made.
> > I've bought stuff from these guys in the past for race-car projects.
> Lots
> > of different sizes, shapes, etc. There are others out there too who make
> > NACA ducts cheap.
> >
> > http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/naca.htm
> >
> > jim
> > Tampa
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Garry LeGare
> > To: Ross Mickey; The List
> > Subject: RV-List: Re: NACA Vent
> >
> >
> > Ross, I will be making the scoops or having Bob at Fairings Etc. make
> them.
> > But
> > not until I test the new scoop and it's location, to make sure that
> there
> > are
> > no problems such as exhaust gases getting in during certain flight
> > configurations.
> > Garry "Casper"
> >
> > Ross Mickey wrote:
> >
> > > Gary,
> > > Are your going to be selling these beauties or renting out your plug so
> I
> > > could mold one?
> > >
> > > Ross Mickey
> > >
> > > >My scoop is 3.5 wide by 1.8 high and it is just a bit to small. my
> next
> > > scoop is
> > > >going to be 5.25 wide by 2 high and I should have a report on how it
> > works
> > > near
> > > >the end of the month.
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
| Subject: | Re: instrument separation on panel |
Can anyone using Van's gauges let me know it the instruments are still 2-1/4"
cylinders BEHIND the mounting flange, or do they actually get bigger back
there? Also, how much room do they typically need behind them? Can't tell
from the photos in the catalog...
From the PossumWorks
Mark
>
> You need to check the instruments themselves to answer that question
> (assuming you have them).
> Some have more bulk than others behind the panel - the face is just the
> tip of the ice berg and 1/4" spacing from the front of the panel might
> very well not be enough room for the cases to sit side by side.
>
> Be careful if you have so many instruments that you need to put them
> that close together!
>
> Mike Thompson
> Austin, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
Re switching wing tips. It is really kind of funny, we all fall victim to
it. I am as guilty, or guiltier than anyone else so don't take this as a
flame.
The standard RV tip is a Hornier tip. It is supposed make the effective
length of the wing greater by accelerating outward the already upward
accelerating air.
Most Piper products come with tips that look a lot like Vans Sheared tips.
What is funny is that it is fashionable with piper people to install
Hornier tips on their planes. Claims of higher top speed and shorter
takeoff roll are claimed by owners for this mod. Pretty funny. We take off
the hornier and install sheared and go faster, they take off the sheared and
install hornier and go faster.
That said, I could be inclined to make a switch just to have an RV that
looked different, so I understand the motivation, but lets not fool
ourselves. Until CAFE or someone else who follows similar scientific
methodology tests it, lets just consider wing tip changes to be a cosmetic
enhancement.
Don Mei
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | :Tail dragger training |
| From: | Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>
>When I sold my Champ, I gave the new owner my copy of that book. I told him
>that if he pasted the V-speeds and checklist I gave him into that book, he'd
>have a flight manual for the Champ. It is a great book. Nice easy read
>too.
>
>--
I don't own a copy of "Stick and Rudder" but if I recall correctly there
is quite a bit about glide path control. The technique discussed is to
pull back on the stick if you are high and push forward on the stick if
you are low. Opposite of the old joke.
I have found that this works spectactularly well in my RV-6. If I am
high on final approach I just need to slow down to 60 knots, power off,
and hold it there. The airplane drops like a safe. The only trick is to
allow a LOT of altitude to regain the normal approach speed of 65. I
have never seen this technique from the ground, but I'll bet it looks
pretty scary.
I have been trying something else this winter. My normal departure calls
for accelerating to about 110 to 120 knots, shortly after liftoff. One
reason for this is for cooling and another is that the RV still climbs
real well at 120 knots while also getting cross country real well. With
the cooler weather negating the need to keep the speed up I have been
trying a departure that involves pulling the nose up to maintain an 80
knot climb speed. I'll bet this looks pretty scary from the ground also.
The deck angle is very high and I usually pass pattern altitude well
before the end of a 5,000 foot runway.
It feels kind of like an aerobatic manuveur and I can almost understand
something like the recent story on the list of someone being called on
the carpet for such a departure. There is certainly nothing unsafe about
climbing at well above Vx and getting a lot of altitude fast, in fact it
should be safer, but it just don't look normal and it is a lot of fun, so
there will be those that would want to criticize.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: instrument separation on panel |
you are correct, the round part of the rear of the gauges are 2-1/4. and to
be safe you need 3 inches clearence ( at least )so you can make your wire
connections to go on the terminal post. the total with post are 2-3/4 from
the rear of the panel.
good luck
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob, you are right, trying to seal up the cockpit from the tail cone is a
waste of time. I also removed the inspection cover and that didn't do
anything, but I just took the cover off and did not try any type of outlet
detail, this may work for you. As far as letting the air out anything will
do, if it's in the right place, but to let the air out and minimize drag
takes more of an effort and that's what I am playing with.
When we tuft tested "Casper" a few months ago we found some very interesting
airflow patterns, and that's why the outlet is located where it is. As far as
what they do on factory aircraft. I believe their main interest is getting
the job done as inexpensive as possible. Enhancing performance is a secondary
issue, at least until a few years ago, when the bean counters finally let the
engineers and aerodynamicists do their thing.
I sure appreciate your feedback and anybody else's. The more input there is,
the faster we can make our RVs more comfortable. Let us know what you find.
Garry "Casper"
Bob Japundza wrote:
>
> Gary,
>
> I'm listening!
>
> I also have done a little analysis/tinkering to see where all this cold
> air is coming from in. In my -6, the classic symptom of a cold breeze
> on you neck doesn't come from the canopy skirts, rather it comes from
> around the openings in the baggage bulkhead where the seat belt cables
> pass through. Amazing how much air can come through there. A lot of
> air comes through the openings of the corrugated baggage bulkhead.
>
> I've taped the holes in the rear fuselage and that did nothing.
>
> The next thing I want to try is cutting holes in the fuse inspection
> hole covers and putting a small fairing (kinda like the fairing that is
> used for the rudder cables, but flatter and larger) over the holes
> there. I don't know how effective they will be but I've heard other
> builders have had success with this. And--no holes cut in the fuselage.
> This weekend I will rig up some new insp. covers to see if they work.
>
> I'll have to agree that a Naca vent is probably not really doing its
> thing--it's just acting as a blow-hole for the high pressure in the
> tail. As long as air is prevented from coming in a round hole looks
> like it would do the trick.
>
> I share a hangar with a Cherokee 140 and there are a number of vents on
> its fuselage, with the exits pointing rearward. Looks like they had it
> figured out long before we did. They're just holes with a ramp over
> them.
>
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 260 hours
> building F1 "there's no replacement for displacement"
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry LeGare
> > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 6:51 PM
> > To: Ross Mickey; The List
> > Subject: RV-List: Re: NACA Vent
> >
> >
> >
> > Ross, I will be making the scoops or having Bob at Fairings
> > Etc. make them. But not until I test the new scoop and it's
> > location, to make sure that there are no problems such as
> > exhaust gases getting in during certain flight
> > configurations. Garry "Casper"
> >
> > Ross Mickey wrote:
> >
> > > Gary,
> > > Are your going to be selling these beauties or renting out
> > your plug
> > > so I could mold one?
> > >
> > > Ross Mickey
> > >
> > > >My scoop is 3.5 wide by 1.8 high and it is just a bit to small. my
> > > >next
> > > scoop is
> > > >going to be 5.25 wide by 2 high and I should have a report
> > on how it
> > > >works
> > > near
> > > >the end of the month.
>
> ________
> From: Garry LeGare <"versadek"@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: NACA Vent
>
>
> You are correct a constant width ramp with less than a 11 degree
> divergence would work as well or possibly better, if we were trying to
> suck the air out of the tail. But we don't need no stinking suction. We
> gots lots o
> pressure in that there tail, so there. Okay now that no one is
> listening, my duct configuration is a cross between a submerged inlet
> and a ramp exit. The big secret with these inlets is not more than 11
> degrees.
> Garry "Casper"
>
> "Owens, Laird" wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Now I'm no aerodyamicist (and I don't even play one on TV).....but I
> got a question.
> >
> > I know a NACA duct (or submerged inlet duct) works great pointed into
> the wind, but is it really the best shape for an exit duct????
> >
> > I understand how the NACA duct works (I use to have a copy of the
> original report from the late 40's), but I can't see how that shape
> helps evacuate air from a aft body. Might even be more drag than
> something simplier.
> >
> > Wouldn't some plan old constant width ramp exit work just as well?
> (Whole lot easier to build and adjust for testing).
> >
> > Hmmmm.....just thinking out loud (with lots of grinding noises).
> >
> > Laird
> > RV-6
> > SoCal (and NO....were not all liberals out here on the left coast)
> > From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Mon, Jan 7, 2002 6:35 PM
> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: NACA Vent
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >
>
> >
> > Gary,
> > before you start "making" scoops, search the Web for those already
> made.
> > I've bought stuff from these guys in the past for race-car projects.
> Lots
> > of different sizes, shapes, etc. There are others out there too who
> make
> > NACA ducts cheap.
> >
> > http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/naca.htm
> >
> > jim
> > Tampa
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Garry LeGare
> > To: Ross Mickey; The List
> > Subject: RV-List: Re: NACA Vent
> >
> >
> > Ross, I will be making the scoops or having Bob at Fairings Etc. make
> them.
> > But
> > not until I test the new scoop and it's location, to make sure that
> there
> > are
> > no problems such as exhaust gases getting in during certain flight
> > configurations.
> > Garry "Casper"
> >
> > Ross Mickey wrote:
> >
> > > Gary,
> > > Are your going to be selling these beauties or renting out your plug
> so I
> > > could mold one?
> > >
> > > Ross Mickey
> > >
> > > >My scoop is 3.5 wide by 1.8 high and it is just a bit to small. my
> next
> > > scoop is
> > > >going to be 5.25 wide by 2 high and I should have a report on how
> it
> > works
> > > near
> > > >the end of the month.
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: instrument separation on panel |
oops
after re-reading the post i think he was talking about side to side
cleareances. if that is the case, you can mount the square part of the gauges
touching each other in a tight stack. you will have about 1/8 of an inch of
material between the round holes on the surface of the panel.
see the link below for a pix of how close my gauges are to each other.
http://members5.clubphoto.com/scott351659/owner-b6b0-1.phtml
although the album is expired you can see the pix marked scotts panel from
the rear.
good luck
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wingtip info |
Don , my mole at Vans said "the sheared tips aren't any faster at least
measurably, they are a marketing decision". At home coming, Van was looking over
Casper and asking about some of the mods, I have the standard tips, so I asked
him how much faster the sheared tips were. He just smiled and stuck his fingers
in "Caspers" extended snorkel. I thought this was very rude as they had hardly
been introduced.
Garry "Casper"
Donald Mei wrote:
>
> Re switching wing tips. It is really kind of funny, we all fall victim to
> it. I am as guilty, or guiltier than anyone else so don't take this as a
> flame.
>
> The standard RV tip is a Hornier tip. It is supposed make the effective
> length of the wing greater by accelerating outward the already upward
> accelerating air.
>
> Most Piper products come with tips that look a lot like Vans Sheared tips.
> What is funny is that it is fashionable with piper people to install
> Hornier tips on their planes. Claims of higher top speed and shorter
> takeoff roll are claimed by owners for this mod. Pretty funny. We take off
> the hornier and install sheared and go faster, they take off the sheared and
> install hornier and go faster.
>
> That said, I could be inclined to make a switch just to have an RV that
> looked different, so I understand the motivation, but lets not fool
> ourselves. Until CAFE or someone else who follows similar scientific
> methodology tests it, lets just consider wing tip changes to be a cosmetic
> enhancement.
>
> Don Mei
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
> Eric, I don't think It is necessary to have holes in the aft
> fuselage close
> out. I found that even with all the corrugated notches plugged there
> was
> still
> a tremendous amount of air coming in from the tail cone. If you
> analyze the
> structure you'll see there are many places for air to sneak through.
> Garry "Casper"
I think one thing some are losing sight of is that the tail cone is an
area of high pressure. This is why air is coming into the fuselage
from the tail and moving forward. It is logical to think that one can
put a hole in the aft end of the fuselage and air will move the length
of the fuselage and out, but in fact that hole will just let more air
into the fuselage.
When Garry located his NACA vent on the bottom of the fuselage within 2
feet or so of the aft end of the wings, he placed it in a computer
modeled area of low pressure - and provided empirical data to verify
the modeling! Thanks Garry!
Seems we want to _limit_ the gaps at the aft end of the fuselage to
limit ingress, and then let what does come in through inevitable gaps
egress in a low pressure area.
The physical means of creating the venting are as varied as the
builders - Garry's NACA vent and my simple louvered vent are examples.
Now why some production aircraft have apparent similar provisions but
located in different places beats me - but probably due to their
specific airframe airflow analysis. This discussion centers (at least
from my point of view) around the RV-6 and RV-6A airframe.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
________________________________________________________________________________
Good point, any vehicle that utilizes a exhaust gas heat exchanger should be so
equipped. Yes, I have an electronic CO detector as well as a couple of CO dots
placed near the heater outlets. This is also why earlier I cautioned about
positioning of the outlet location.
Garry "Casper"
John & Teresa Huft wrote:
>
> Hopefully, you guys are carrying a CO detector in the airplane when you are
> doing these experiments. My C-185 has vents up high on the fuse sides facing
> forward, to pressurize the rear fuse, to keep exhaust gases out. Heater
> works great, BTW.
>
> John, RV8 fwf
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Japundza
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: NACA Vent
>
>
> Gary,
>
> I'm listening!
>
> I also have done a little analysis/tinkering to see where all this cold
> air is coming from in. In my -6, the classic symptom of a cold breeze
> on you neck doesn't come from the canopy skirts, rather it comes from
> around the openings in the baggage bulkhead where the seat belt cables
> pass through. Amazing how much air can come through there. A lot of
> air comes through the openings of the corrugated baggage bulkhead.
>
> I've taped the holes in the rear fuselage and that did nothing.
>
> The next thing I want to try is cutting holes in the fuse inspection
> hole covers and putting a small fairing (kinda like the fairing that is
> used for the rudder cables, but flatter and larger) over the holes
> there. I don't know how effective they will be but I've heard other
> builders have had success with this. And--no holes cut in the fuselage.
> This weekend I will rig up some new insp. covers to see if they work.
>
> I'll have to agree that a Naca vent is probably not really doing its
> thing--it's just acting as a blow-hole for the high pressure in the
> tail. As long as air is prevented from coming in a round hole looks
> like it would do the trick.
>
> I share a hangar with a Cherokee 140 and there are a number of vents on
> its fuselage, with the exits pointing rearward. Looks like they had it
> figured out long before we did. They're just holes with a ramp over
> them.
>
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 260 hours
> building F1 "there's no replacement for displacement"
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry LeGare
> > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 6:51 PM
> > To: Ross Mickey; The List
> > Subject: RV-List: Re: NACA Vent
> >
> >
> >
> > Ross, I will be making the scoops or having Bob at Fairings
> > Etc. make them. But not until I test the new scoop and it's
> > location, to make sure that there are no problems such as
> > exhaust gases getting in during certain flight
> > configurations. Garry "Casper"
> >
> > Ross Mickey wrote:
> >
> > > Gary,
> > > Are your going to be selling these beauties or renting out
> > your plug
> > > so I could mold one?
> > >
> > > Ross Mickey
> > >
> > > >My scoop is 3.5 wide by 1.8 high and it is just a bit to small. my
> > > >next
> > > scoop is
> > > >going to be 5.25 wide by 2 high and I should have a report
> > on how it
> > > >works
> > > near
> > > >the end of the month.
>
> ________
> From: Garry LeGare <"versadek"@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: NACA Vent
>
>
> You are correct a constant width ramp with less than a 11 degree
> divergence would work as well or possibly better, if we were trying to
> suck the air out of the tail. But we don't need no stinking suction. We
> gots lots o
> pressure in that there tail, so there. Okay now that no one is
> listening, my duct configuration is a cross between a submerged inlet
> and a ramp exit. The big secret with these inlets is not more than 11
> degrees.
> Garry "Casper"
>
> "Owens, Laird" wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Now I'm no aerodyamicist (and I don't even play one on TV).....but I
> got a question.
> >
> > I know a NACA duct (or submerged inlet duct) works great pointed into
> the wind, but is it really the best shape for an exit duct????
> >
> > I understand how the NACA duct works (I use to have a copy of the
> original report from the late 40's), but I can't see how that shape
> helps evacuate air from a aft body. Might even be more drag than
> something simplier.
> >
> > Wouldn't some plan old constant width ramp exit work just as well?
> (Whole lot easier to build and adjust for testing).
> >
> > Hmmmm.....just thinking out loud (with lots of grinding noises).
> >
> > Laird
> > RV-6
> > SoCal (and NO....were not all liberals out here on the left coast)
> > From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Mon, Jan 7, 2002 6:35 PM
> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: NACA Vent
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >
>
> >
> > Gary,
> > before you start "making" scoops, search the Web for those already
> made.
> > I've bought stuff from these guys in the past for race-car projects.
> Lots
> > of different sizes, shapes, etc. There are others out there too who
> make
> > NACA ducts cheap.
> >
> > http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/naca.htm
> >
> > jim
> > Tampa
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Garry LeGare
> > To: Ross Mickey; The List
> > Subject: RV-List: Re: NACA Vent
> >
> >
> > Ross, I will be making the scoops or having Bob at Fairings Etc. make
> them.
> > But
> > not until I test the new scoop and it's location, to make sure that
> there
> > are
> > no problems such as exhaust gases getting in during certain flight
> > configurations.
> > Garry "Casper"
> >
> > Ross Mickey wrote:
> >
> > > Gary,
> > > Are your going to be selling these beauties or renting out your plug
> so I
> > > could mold one?
> > >
> > > Ross Mickey
> > >
> > > >My scoop is 3.5 wide by 1.8 high and it is just a bit to small. my
> next
> > > scoop is
> > > >going to be 5.25 wide by 2 high and I should have a report on how
> it
> > works
> > > near
> > > >the end of the month.
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
> At the rear center of canopy there is about 1/4 inch space between the
canopy and the canopy bow....
Canopy. Makes my stomach burn to remember The Canopy.
I wasn't happy with either the rear canopy bow or the way the skirts fit.
So: fitting the canopy to the frame comes first. With the way mine was
fitting I actually ended up erk CUTTING the rear bow
and fitting it to the curve of the glass. There was "too much" of the
frame. Course, I had George, the Amazing Welder living next door and welding
aluminum was not a problem. Put a support tube inside the tube of the frame
and drug it over for George the Amazing Welder to weld. With a little
grinding of the weld, it was a perfect fit: no mangling of the glass to fit
the canopy.
Then came the skirts. The ends never did come together to my satisfaction as
there were two areas that had to match: the curve of the glass and the curve
of the fuselage. Great. I wound up erk CUTTING the rear
end of the skirts and fashioning a splice to fit. A lot of work, perhaps,
but a perfect fit with no binding. The whole airplane, after all, was a lot
of work. Only gonna do the canopy once.
Getting the edges of the skirt to fit the fuselage required a LOT of filing,
fitting, filing, fitting, sometimes what seemed like molecules of aluminum
from the edge for a fit. The fit is tight. In fact, so tight that, after
flying, I had to slip a piece of rubber "U" channel under the rear of the
canopy skirt to avoid the skirt working into the aluminum of the fuselage.
Now: very tight seal, winter and summer.
I could probably take some photos and post 'em, but won't be able to get to
that today.
Hope this helps.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | 2-Stage Paint Question |
Folks,
I spent most of lunch searching the archives for answers to my
questions and probably just didn't use the right keywords - didn't find
much.
I am starting to think about painting my bird and I will be using a
three-color scheme plus tail art.
Now I know I want to use two-stage paint so that I'll have the clear
coat protecting the tail art
My questions center around timing. Seems like I remember reading that
there is a window after applying a color coat after which you can apply
another color and before which you should apply the clear coat.
It may have been brand-specific and not a general rule for two-stage
paint at all...
So my sequence will be:
Prime everything with white primer (my choice - to brighten the
colors).
Wait time A
Shoot first (base) color coat
Wait time B
Mask and shoot trim - second (different) color
Wait time C
Mask and shoot trim - third (different) color
Wait time D
Mask and apply tail art (air brush)
Wait time E
Shoot clear coat
Wait time F
Sand as necessary, shoot second clear coat
Done
That's a lot of masking and painting, masking and painting.
Got to wait long enough to mask, but have to keep total time between A
and E down to the limit... which is a matter of what, hours? Days?
Weeks?
Recommendations for a good book?
Ohhhh.... my head hurts!
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
snipped stuff about ramps
But we don't need no stinking suction. We gots lots o
pressure in that there tail, so there. Okay now that no one is listening,....
snip
Garry "Casper"
Well Garry, if you'd explaned it better I might have understood better and therefore
listened better.
But Mike explained it well enough for me to get the idea. Can't wait to see a
picture (for us simple minded folks).
Laird (all in jest of course)
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
| Subject: | RV-7 landing light installation |
Van's Aircraft have their "standard" wingtip for the RV-4, RV-6, and
RV-8.
Van's has a "sheared" wingtip for the RV-7. The "sheared" wingtip for the
RV-7 will also fit the RV-4, RV-6 and RV-8 wing.
Van's "sheared" wingtip cost around $350. The recessed bulkhead for a NAV
light is molded in, and conforming lens covers are included. There is no
provision for a landing light in the wingtip.
It is easy to install a landing light in the RV-7 tips. Myself, Bill
VonDane, Bob Japundza and probably many others have done it. Check out our
websites for details. I spent a whopping $15 to install my landing lights,
including the bulbs! Here's the URL...
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/Construction%20Notes%20for%20t
he%20tail%20and%20wings.htm
paste it back together if your email splits it in two, then scroll about 3/4
of the way down the page.
Or go here and surf to the wings and tail link.
Vince Frazier
F-1H Rocket... the fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | 2-Stage Paint Question |
Mike,
One thing I do when I'm shooting several multi-stage colors and lots of striping
is to shoot the basecoat, (and these times are for PPG) wait about 1/2 hour
for the base coat to flash off, then shoot a VERY light clear coat, just enough
to cover and seal the base coat. Let dry 24 hrs, remove the tape and mask the
next color to be shot. You can even VERY LIGHTLY color sand the clear before
reclearing after all the colors have been shoot.
Doing this addes a little step, but it makes the timing simplier.
Laird
RV-6 SoCal
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Tue, Jan 8, 2002 12:04 PM
Subject: RV-List: 2-Stage Paint Question
Folks,
I spent most of lunch searching the archives for answers to my
questions and probably just didn't use the right keywords - didn't find
much.
I am starting to think about painting my bird and I will be using a
three-color scheme plus tail art.
Now I know I want to use two-stage paint so that I'll have the clear
coat protecting the tail art
My questions center around timing. Seems like I remember reading that
there is a window after applying a color coat after which you can apply
another color and before which you should apply the clear coat.
It may have been brand-specific and not a general rule for two-stage
paint at all...
So my sequence will be:
Prime everything with white primer (my choice - to brighten the
colors).
Wait time A
Shoot first (base) color coat
Wait time B
Mask and shoot trim - second (different) color
Wait time C
Mask and shoot trim - third (different) color
Wait time D
Mask and apply tail art (air brush)
Wait time E
Shoot clear coat
Wait time F
Sand as necessary, shoot second clear coat
Done
That's a lot of masking and painting, masking and painting.
Got to wait long enough to mask, but have to keep total time between A
and E down to the limit... which is a matter of what, hours? Days?
Weeks?
Recommendations for a good book?
Ohhhh.... my head hurts!
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV's in Midwest |
Wow, now this is an example of RVation the exceeds all others. Willing to fly
4
hours round trip to give a guy a ride. If you need a wing man let me know. I'd
love to tag along.
Gary Zilik, RV-6A
Denis Walsh wrote:
>
> I am a little far for a day trip from Denver; however if there is no other
> way found I am willing. It looks like about four hours round trip.
>
> Denis Walsh, RV-6A
>
> _ > I'm actually posting a message for my Dad, who is going to try building
a
> -7
> > this year. He hasn't had the good fortune to ride in an RV yet and he was
> > wondering if there was any RV6/A's within a couple hours of Sturgis, South
> > Dakota?? He'd very much like to look at someone's project or maybe even go
> > for a ride sometime.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | kt76 transponder wiring diagram |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
>
> Fellow listers,
> Does anyone have a kt76 transponder wiring diagram they
> could email or fax to me?
>
> Thanks,
> Gary Gunn, RV-6 panel
>
>
> Listers
> I forgot to ask what is a Strobe type trandsponder? My encoder said
> to connect the pink wire to ground for a Non-Strobe type ATC
> Trandsponder. I have a AMERI-KING AK-350 encoder, and KING KT-76A
trandsponder.
> Thank
> Jerry
>
>
*************************************************************************
I think ( from my hen scaching):
Look for 2 vertical bars ( to index the connector) 3 pins from side.
Pins are #ed 1 thru 12 on the top
A thru N on the bottom
No G or I.
They play a funny game with the dimmer lights ( weather you want 12 or 24
volts)
for 28 - send the volts to pin3 & leave pin 2 open.
for 12 - send volts to pin2 & grd pin 3.
1 grd
A grd
D C1
M A1
L C2
B B4
E B1
J A4
H C4
C B2
K A2
8 D4
2 Dimmer
3 dimmer
11 A+
12 not used(KT76C uses it for 11-33 volts)
F Ext ID ( I think you could have a external IDent button)
9 DME supression
10 Ext standby ( if you got 2 transponers you can wire for one or the
other)
I think the referance to the D4 (pin 8) does not matter. I show mine left
open.
I think it is for encoders above 30000 feet.
Hope this helps. If it don't E-mail is cheap.
Don Jordan - N6DJ - 6A
Arlington, Tx
******************************
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: pipe sealant on brake lines? |
> I am about to start installing the brake and fuel lines in my RV9.
> Should I
> be using any pipe or joint compound at the fittings for the brake and
> fuel
> lines?? I hate leaks.
Rectorseal thread sealant.
Mike Thompson
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Garry LeGare wrote:
>
>
> Yes you do Larry, or have a BS in Aero and extensive structural design
> experience.
> Garry "Casper"
>
> Larry Bowen wrote:
>
> >
> > Ya gotta have cast-iron juevos or be a little crazy to cut a 5" hole in
> > your plane without Van's blessing.
> >
> > In my humble, conservative, non-engineering opinion,
> >
> > Larry Bowen
> > RV-8 fuse
> > Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> > http://BowenAero.com
Garry's probably too modest to admit it, but I believe he designed the
Sea Hawk, a composite amphibian biplane (hint; he is mentioned in an
interesting article in the latest edition of Sport Aviation).
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Planejoel(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Venice FL Airport |
Copied this out of the Sarasota harold tribune.
Airport security laughable I've had to chuckle over several articles the
Herald- Tribune has recently printed reporting about around-the- clock
surveillance, since Sept. 11, of the Venice Municipal Airport by the Venice
Police Department. I am working on an owner-built experimental airplane and I
have been out at the airport just about every day since 9/11 and before that.
First, the police security at the airport did not start until the 30th day
after the 9/11 attack, and then it was only from 4 p.m. until 8 a.m. and on
weekends. Second, as of this writing, the police officers still do not have a
correct list of pilots, airplane owners, tenants, etc., provided by airport
management. Third, the police only provide "security" at the gate located
next to the Municipal Airport building, while there are numerous other gates
(such as the one that so-called student terrorists used) that people can
drive or walk through without being challenged or checked at all. (This would
be like trying to restrict access to Sarasota by only monitoring the traffic
arriving via North Tamiami Trail.) Security does not have a list of airport
employees, students, instructors -- nor does it monitor any aircraft that fly
into the airport. If security is going to subject tenant pilots to searches,
then the same standard should be applied to anyone who enters the airport
area from any of the gates, including people out walking a dog. This airport
nonsecurity will cost taxpayers approximately $45,000 more, annually, than
the $65,000 that was paid to the old security firm. All the money and
police-officer time spent on this nonsecurity is a total waste. And, by the
way, the officers are trying to do their job -- they just aren't being given
the tools to do it.
Boyd C. Braem
Osprey
The bad news is, our hanger rent will go up considerably to off set the non
security by the city.
The good news is the price of training tsssssssssssssst will not increase and
will be free to Case, no I mean wonder about freely.
Joe
RV6A
Laughalotwhileyoucan it is later then you think.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com> |
Sam,
Garry is a good friend of mine so I'll stick up for him...
To answer Larry's question;
He has composite juevos and yes he is crazy.
Modesty is not one of his virtues !!!
Just kiddin' Garry...............;
)
Ed Cole.......Garry's Wing Man
RV6A N2169D Flying
RV6A N648RV Finishing
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Buchanan [SMTP:sbuc(at)hiwaay.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 3:07 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: NACA Vent
>
>
>
> Garry LeGare wrote:
> >
> >
> > Yes you do Larry, or have a BS in Aero and extensive structural design
> > experience.
> > Garry "Casper"
> >
> > Larry Bowen wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Ya gotta have cast-iron juevos or be a little crazy to cut a 5" hole
> in
> > > your plane without Van's blessing.
> > >
> > > In my humble, conservative, non-engineering opinion,
> > >
> > > Larry Bowen
> > > RV-8 fuse
> > > Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> > > http://BowenAero.com
>
>
> Garry's probably too modest to admit it, but I believe he designed the
> Sea Hawk, a composite amphibian biplane (hint; he is mentioned in an
> interesting article in the latest edition of Sport Aviation).
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
>
>
Maxim Home Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com
Products Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/MaximProducts/products.htm
New Products:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/new_products.cfm
Datasheets:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/l_datasheet3.cfm
The information contained in this message is confidential
and may be legally privileged. The message is intended
solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SSPRING83(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tail dragger Training |
OK guys, you got me.! When I spoke of the taildragger
training I was not refering to a brand new, out of the shop -4, but a used
one , with over 600 hrs on it. Sorry, I guess that I should have stated that
up front....... As far as I know, you are allowed to use your own plane for
this type of training and not be breaking any of the rules.........
I was just stating how difficult it is becoming to get
tailwheel training around here (the northeast) these days. I can see where a
new pilot with a new plane would be in a hell of a bind to get himself legal
for the FAA as well as the insurance co. Easy guys, I'm on your side!!!
Really............Happy flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net> |
Mike,
Your on the right track I think. Most manufactures recommend somewhere
around 30 minutes to an hour flash for the base coat before masking. Du
Pont and PPG give you 8 hours to "over night" as maximum time before
clear-coat.
I can understand Owen Laird's recommendation of lightly clearing the
base being in CA. but, that's a real headache in my opinion and not
really needed if your ready to paint the whole bird.
I'd recommend doing the whole aircraft except your tail (where your
going to do your tail art).
That way your whole aircraft is finished with just the tail to worry
about. When you talk "Tail Art" I assume your going to do some type of
intricate work. So that might burn up your entire base to clear time
just on that if you tried to do it all at once. This way you have the
whole time to work just strictly on the tail work and not have to run
around the plane like a crazy man with a masking machine.
A three color job with stripe breaks generally takes us about 5 to 6
hours after final prepping to shoot and be cleaning out the gun. We
always try to overmask where we can so most of the masking is already
done. You only have to mask what you just shot that way and the next
color area is basically ready.
Shoot, wait, mask, shoot, wait, mask, shoot...it's a vicious cycle.
Hope this helped some. The main thing is don't overwhelm yourself
trying to do too much at once. Then you'll be behind and scrambling to
keep time.
Jim Duckett, N708JD
Performance Engineering
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
Sam:
FYI. He also designed the Q2.
Gary
--- Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
>
> Garry LeGare wrote:
> >
> <"versadek"@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Yes you do Larry, or have a BS in Aero and extensive structural
> design
> > experience.
> > Garry "Casper"
> >
> > Larry Bowen wrote:
> >
>
> > >
> > > Ya gotta have cast-iron juevos or be a little crazy to cut a 5"
> hole in
> > > your plane without Van's blessing.
> > >
> > > In my humble, conservative, non-engineering opinion,
> > >
> > > Larry Bowen
> > > RV-8 fuse
> > > Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> > > http://BowenAero.com
>
>
> Garry's probably too modest to admit it, but I believe he designed
> the
> Sea Hawk, a composite amphibian biplane (hint; he is mentioned in an
> interesting article in the latest edition of Sport Aviation).
>
> Sam Buchanan
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Planejoel(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tampa, GA Restrictions, etc. |
Well said
Listen up all you right, left, up, down, sideway wingers, liberals,
fence riders, RV dirvers etc divided you will fall Hard.
Joe
RV6A
Ho Hum bedie time.
Do not archieve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca> |
| Subject: | Seat Cushions RV-6A |
Hi RV-Listers
I would appreciate any comments or suggestions anyone may have about
designing the seat cushions for the RV-6A. My interior will be fairly
spartan, more military style than spam-can.
How thick should the bottom seat cushion be at the forward end where it
overlaps the wing spar.
I have the diagram on John Hovans website which shows the forward end of the
RV-6 seat cushion more than four inches thick, I think that this may be too
thick, depending on type of foam used.
I will have crotch strap on my seatbelts, should it come up through seat
cusion or should I shorten the cushion.
If the stick boot is part of the cushion does this make the cushion hard to
remove & install, (thinking here is that a flip up bottom cushion may be
better for entry/exit).
I was also pondering making the bottom three inches of the bottom cushion as
a separate piece using a floatation foam (floating docks) so that it could
be used as a crude flotation device, what say you?
Are there any diagrams of seat dimensions on the Internet other than Hovans?
What would you do different next time?
Thanks
George McNutt
Langley B.C.
End in sight.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail dragger Training |
>
>
> OK guys, you got me.! When I spoke of the taildragger
>training I was not refering to a brand new, out of the shop -4, but a used
>one , with over 600 hrs on it. Sorry, I guess that I should have stated
>that
>up front....... As far as I know, you are allowed to use your own plane for
>this type of training and not be breaking any of the rules.........
> I was just stating how difficult it is becoming to get
>tailwheel training around here (the northeast) these days. I can see where
>a
>new pilot with a new plane would be in a hell of a bind to get himself
>legal
>for the FAA as well as the insurance co. Easy guys, I'm on your side!!!
>Really............Happy flying
I feel your pain! I had to fly to Florida to get dual tailwheel/transition
training in an RV8 with a CFI to be insurable. Getting basic tailwheel
training locally was also a challenge, but I did find a CFI with a Citabria
in town who did my tailwheel sign off. The "art" of flying a tailwheel
airplane is sadly drifting off into the sunset it would seem. There are
many ATP's out there driving airliners who have never once strapped on a
traildragger. This makes them no less a pilot by any means, but they're
missing out on a lot of fun!
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
Albuquerque, NM
RV8 N94BD
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
rv-list(at)matronics.com, aerobatic-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | Jim Thomson <jthomson(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | IO-540 C4B5 For Immediate Sale |
Lycoming IO-540-C4B5 Narrow Deck For Immediate Sale
Built for recently deceased HR II
Serial # L-5725-40
Millennium Cylinders
10:1 Pistons
Engine blueprinted and dynamically balanced
Cylinder heads ported, polished, and flow matched
Cold air induction system (Barrett)
Fuel System Fm200 (Air Flo)
Slick Mags
Ignition
Starter Alternator
Vacuum Pump
TTSOH 6.9 Hours
Prop strike, torn down and rebuilt by
Performance Aero
La Verne, CA
Contact Ron Monson 909.593.5008 for detailed info
and complete engine history.
Beautiful engine, ready to go. Ran ultra smooth
during its oh so brief lifetime. Easy 315-325HP!
Have pictures if you need them. Great deal.
$31 (other accessories negotiable)
By
Jim Thomson
4639 Camden Drive
Corona del Mar, CA 92625
949.294.9940 (Cell)
949.640.2172 (Home)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: 2-Stage Paint Question |
Mike,
I don't think there's any way around this problem. The maximum time that they
give you between any two coats is so short that the paint isn't dry enough to
mask. Even if you add a light clear coat as Laird suggests you still have to
paint over that coat and the same timing will apply. The paint store told me
not to worry about it - just use a scotch brite pad before the next coat.
I've painted 4 airplanes now with polyurethane using this method and had no
problems. I painted my Stinson almost 20 years ago and it's still almost
perfect (well, ok, not perfect but you know what I mean).
Also, don't wait until the paint is dry to remove the masking - it will leave
a sharp edge. Pull it off about the time the paint is tack free and the edge
will be smooth.
Dave -6, (un-groundlooped tailwheel) So Cal
Mike Thompson wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I spent most of lunch searching the archives for answers to my
> questions and probably just didn't use the right keywords - didn't find
> much.
>
> I am starting to think about painting my bird and I will be using a
> three-color scheme plus tail art.
>
> Now I know I want to use two-stage paint so that I'll have the clear
> coat protecting the tail art
>
> My questions center around timing. Seems like I remember reading that
> there is a window after applying a color coat after which you can apply
> another color and before which you should apply the clear coat.
> It may have been brand-specific and not a general rule for two-stage
> paint at all...
>
> So my sequence will be:
> Prime everything with white primer (my choice - to brighten the
> colors).
> Wait time A
> Shoot first (base) color coat
> Wait time B
> Mask and shoot trim - second (different) color
> Wait time C
> Mask and shoot trim - third (different) color
> Wait time D
> Mask and apply tail art (air brush)
> Wait time E
> Shoot clear coat
> Wait time F
> Sand as necessary, shoot second clear coat
> Done
>
> That's a lot of masking and painting, masking and painting.
> Got to wait long enough to mask, but have to keep total time between A
> and E down to the limit... which is a matter of what, hours? Days?
> Weeks?
>
> Recommendations for a good book?
>
> Ohhhh.... my head hurts!
>
> Mike Thompson
> Austin, TX
> -6 N140RV (Reserved)
> Firewall Forward
>
> http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Cushions RV-6A |
In a message dated 1/8/02 7:45:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca writes:
<< I would appreciate any comments or suggestions anyone may have about
designing the seat cushions for the RV-6A. My interior will be fairly
spartan, more military style than spam-can.
How thick should the bottom seat cushion be at the forward end where it
overlaps the wing spar. >>
George,
My suggestion is to do what I did. Finish the fuselage, including having the
seats, sticks, panel, and canopy installed (or al least fitted for this
exercise). Then, build up a cushion of your own using newspapers, blankets,
towels, etc., until the you're sitting at the correct height (as high as
possible, without bumping your head). Make sure your thighs are well
supported (helps avoid sore-butt syndrome), but that there is enough relief
at the knees that you have a full range of motion to manipulate the rudders
and brake pedals. Take measurements so you can build from these measurements
or so you can provide them to your seat supplier.
Depending on the thickness of your cushion, you may need to adjust the size
of the stick opening through the cushion. If your cushions are extremely
thick, the opening size will need to be larger than standard (at least at the
top), to allow a full range of stick motion.
As far as the crotch strap goes, I'd put it in front of the cut-out, which
would necessitate a bigger cut-out. (Note, I didn't install the crotch strap,
so this is a guess). Make sure you have an appropriately sized back cushion
when you do this, so you get a good overall fit. I would make the stick boot
separate from the cushion. You can inspect the stick/aileron connections
without removing the boot, but I don't think that would be the doable if the
cushion was attached.
One thing several of my buddies have found helpful is to borrow MY cushions,
and figure out what changes work for their application. Imagine the nerve!
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Cushions RV-6A |
I just put 5-point harnesses in my RV6A. I have Orndorf seat cushions. I
brought the crotch strap straight up through the seat cushion. I e-mailed
Becky Orndorf and asked her how much to cut the hole if I marked its
location, and she cut and sewed a gusset into it. She said $240 per seat !
I cut the hole myself with a sharp knife and used the wife's sewing kit and
some medium heavy material to sew in a gusset and it took maybe an hour and
works just fine.
As to how far to make the cushion...I would have it reach the forward edge
of the spar so that you legs are not 'cut' by the sharp change in
support...I also purchased some of that Temperfoam from an outfit in Kansas
(they advertise in Sport Aviation's classified section) and had a local auto
upholstry guy cover them for $35 for a pair...I used a three-density cushion
that raises me to the height I wanted (I'm rather short) and I put that
cushion atop the Orndorf seat/back custions. I might add that Orndorf's
seat/back custions are quite nice and fit perfectly and are not grossly
expensive.
FWIW John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail dragger Training |
I solved this problem by buying a share in a Texas Tail Dragger (converted
Cessna 150) with another RV-8 builder. The plane provided cheap flying
during construction and plenty of tail wheel time. My RV-8 partner is now
flying his project and says the 8 is much easier to land. We are now
migrating our Cessna shares to new RV-8 builders in the area to continue the
process.
The only glitch is I elected to build the 8A before I started flying the
Texas Tail Dragger. I still like the 8A, so I guess I'll just need to swap
planes from time to time with my RV-8 buddies to keep my hand (feet) in.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (engine start in 3 weeks)
Vienna, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Denk
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Tail dragger Training
>
>
> OK guys, you got me.! When I spoke of the taildragger
>training I was not refering to a brand new, out of the shop -4, but a used
>one , with over 600 hrs on it. Sorry, I guess that I should have stated
>that
>up front....... As far as I know, you are allowed to use your own plane for
>this type of training and not be breaking any of the rules.........
> I was just stating how difficult it is becoming to get
>tailwheel training around here (the northeast) these days. I can see where
>a
>new pilot with a new plane would be in a hell of a bind to get himself
>legal
>for the FAA as well as the insurance co. Easy guys, I'm on your side!!!
>Really............Happy flying
I feel your pain! I had to fly to Florida to get dual tailwheel/transition
training in an RV8 with a CFI to be insurable. Getting basic tailwheel
training locally was also a challenge, but I did find a CFI with a Citabria
in town who did my tailwheel sign off. The "art" of flying a tailwheel
airplane is sadly drifting off into the sunset it would seem. There are
many ATP's out there driving airliners who have never once strapped on a
traildragger. This makes them no less a pilot by any means, but they're
missing out on a lot of fun!
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
Albuquerque, NM
RV8 N94BD
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Cushions RV-6A |
George,
I ended up using John Hovans seat drawings and used his exact dimensions and my
seats are perfect. I'm 5'8 and #160. If you have longer legs I'd make the seat
backs thinner and if you're taller make the bottom a little thinner. If I had it
to do over again I'd make both cushions in 2 pieces so they'd be more adjustable
for passengers but for me they're just right.
Dave -6, So Cal
George McNutt wrote:
>
> Hi RV-Listers
>
> I would appreciate any comments or suggestions anyone may have about
> designing the seat cushions for the RV-6A. My interior will be fairly
> spartan, more military style than spam-can.
>
> How thick should the bottom seat cushion be at the forward end where it
> overlaps the wing spar.
>
> I have the diagram on John Hovans website which shows the forward end of the
> RV-6 seat cushion more than four inches thick, I think that this may be too
> thick, depending on type of foam used.
>
> I will have crotch strap on my seatbelts, should it come up through seat
> cusion or should I shorten the cushion.
> If the stick boot is part of the cushion does this make the cushion hard to
> remove & install, (thinking here is that a flip up bottom cushion may be
> better for entry/exit).
>
> I was also pondering making the bottom three inches of the bottom cushion as
> a separate piece using a floatation foam (floating docks) so that it could
> be used as a crude flotation device, what say you?
>
> Are there any diagrams of seat dimensions on the Internet other than Hovans?
>
> What would you do different next time?
>
> Thanks
>
> George McNutt
> Langley B.C.
>
> End in sight.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | 2-Stage Paint Question |
Mike,
snipped stuff about 2 stage paints
Also, don't wait until the paint is dry to remove the masking - it will leave
a sharp edge. Pull it off about the time the paint is tack free and the edge
will be smooth.
Dave -6, (un-groundlooped tailwheel) So Cal
Dave,
I've done my fair share of painting as well (but I'm always learning more), and
I'll disagree with you on this one.
The new urethane paints flash off so fast now (as compared with the enamels from
the 70's) that there is little value to removing the masking as quickly as possible.
It's usually dried enough that it won't flow anymore. It also leads to
a misplaced piece of tape getting in the really soft paint and lifting it or
leaving really ugly marks. This is particularly true with newbies (although
I still have it happen once in a while when I'm in a hurry).
If you shoot that real light coat of clear, you can knock off that edge with 400
right before you shoot the clear over everything.
I will agree with you that you can probably strech the exposed time of the basecoat,
but to everyone else, be real careful about scuffing that basecoat if its
a heavy metallic. It's real easy to break thru the floated metallic particles
sitting on the top and you really can't see it until you shoot the clear and
you can see where it was worked.
One way to see how your basecoat is going to look before you shoot clear is to
clean it with a degreaser, like DX330 from PPG. It dries real slow and glosses
the color below to make it look like what it looks like with the clear on it.
It's a trick I use when color sanding stuff like paint line edges.
Take it for what it's worth.
BTW for everyone on the list, I've seen Daves RV-6 when he was flight testing at
Camarillo. He did a very nice job on the paint.
Laird
RV-6 2002 calendar child (Dec)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: wingtip info |
In a message dated 01/08/2002 8:55:45 AM Pacific Standard Time,
don_mei(at)hotmail.com writes:
> The standard RV tip is a Hornier tip. It is supposed make the effective
> length of the wing greater by accelerating outward the already upward
> accelerating air.
>
The NACA report by Hornier included the old mooney wingtip style, as well as
the standard Van's wingtip. The reference wingtip was a typical Piper
wingtip, circa 1960's.
What was common to each of the half dozen Hornier styles in his report was
that each of his wingtip style had at least one SHARP edge.
The "Hot Tip" wingtips have a sharp edge molded onto them.
I don't know if there will be any noticable difference in top speed, or stall
speed. I just plan to find out for myself.
I have seen installed "Hot Tip" wingtips where the sharp edge has been
rounded off. I have talked to people who do not like the appearance of the
"Hot Tip" style wingtip. Whatever. We can each build our plane the way we
want it to look.
Jim Ayers
RV-3 N47RV sn 50
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 fuse jig available |
Free to a good home: RV-8 fuselage jig.
Glued and screwed, one-piece, 16' long, good condition. Lou Smith gave
it to me a mere three years ago. I'm continuing his generosity with the
understanding that you pass it on when you are done with it. Located
near 8A7. Come get it.
Larry Bowen
RV-8 fuse
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
________________________________________________________________________________
engine-list(at)matronics.com, aerobatic-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | Jim Thomson <jthomson(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | For Sale: IO-540 C4B5 Narrow Deck |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Cooler Mounting... |
"Rv8list@Egroups"
I have something to run by you all...
I am mounting my oil cooler on the back of the baffles, and instead of
using the aluminum tubing and long bolts, I am thinking of using solid
aluminum tubing tapped and threaded on both ends with bolts, inside
locks, and flat washers... Here's some pix:
http://vondane.com/rv8a/engine/baffles/cooler2.jpg
http://vondane.com/rv8a/engine/baffles/cooler1.jpg
What do you all think?
-Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A - N8VD
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
mailto:bill(at)vondane.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
| Subject: | contacting your congressman and senators |
Donald Mei said wise words about opposing any restriction on our flying.
Here's a couple links which will allow you to easily find your
representatives addresses.
http://www.house.gov/
http://www.senate.gov/
I email my Senators and Congressman frequently. They always reply by snail
mail... but you must include your full name and snail mail address. I've
never received an email reply. Trying to send anonymous emails normally
won't help any.
Writing to your reps is easy. Just say what you need to say briefly,
politely, and clearly.
You can bet that the freedom grabbing, gun-hating, airplane-hating,
anything-that-might-be-fun-or-dangerous-hating, liberals will be writing
their representatives. We should too!
(BTW, anyone who finds this post offensive or not RV related enough for
them.... kiss my crankshaft. There, that should ensure a few flames.)
Vince Frazier
F-1H Rocket... the fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html
gun owner? ....of course!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Stick and Rudder was Taildragger instruction |
My instructor wouldn't sign me off in my '4 until I read stick and rudder.
You just need to get past some of the archaic terms. Flippers, etc.
Don
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Cooler Mounting... |
Bill,
Why are you doing this?
I love mods and "cool changes", but this has twice the moving parts, and
nobody can tell (thus not cool??).
Why make more work when it is more complex, harder to check (annuals, etc),
and the current system is perfect?
jim
Tampa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Subject: RV-List: Oil Cooler Mounting...
I have something to run by you all...
I am mounting my oil cooler on the back of the baffles, and instead of
using the aluminum tubing and long bolts, I am thinking of using solid
aluminum tubing tapped and threaded on both ends with bolts, inside
locks, and flat washers... Here's some pix:
http://vondane.com/rv8a/engine/baffles/cooler2.jpg
http://vondane.com/rv8a/engine/baffles/cooler1.jpg
What do you all think?
-Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A - N8VD
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
mailto:bill(at)vondane.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tj <ace(at)pnnw.net> |
RV6-List Digest Server ,
Ultralight-List Digest Server ,
Homebuilt-List Digest Server
I have an RV-6A for sale. It is nearly complete. O-360 (180 hp) is
mounted with a C/S prop. TT on engine is 1190 hrs., never rebuilt.
Nitride Cylanders. AD's complied with. Most wiring and plumbing is done
on the engine. New light weight starter, alternator, governor, SS
exhaust and baffles installed. Cowling is done. Fuselage, Empenage,
Wings and Canopy are finished. The VFR panel is filled and needs to be
wired. RMI engine monitor and Encoder. The wings need to be attached.
Has electric trim and strobe and nav lights. Interior is painted and all
aluminum and steel parts have been primed and/or painted. Interior has
been painted. Dual side brake/rudder pedals and outside steps. ELT and
antennas installed. Engine and prop log books. Already registered. You
pick the upholstery and paint scheme.
We have $49K+ invested not to mention the hours. I have all receipts and
list of parts purchased. Asking $46K OBO.
Call: Terry @ 503-680-2104 or Kevin @ 503-789-1529 or ace(at)pnnw.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | fuselage pressure venting |
Hey Casper:
I didn't install the small cuff fairings around the lower sfc of the H Stab
on my ship. As you may realize, this is a low pressure area, and works very
well as an outlet (or pressure relief area). That's my story, and I'm
stickin' to it.
Well, at least it would seem to, judging from the lack of mysterious breezes
in the cockpit area (tho I've never ridden with the esteemed Mr Gummibear).
Sorry -- couldn't resist! Too many Eric Henson posts recently....
Maybe some kind soul would make a flight with these removed (assuming they
were installed in previous flights) and tell us what the heck happens?
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Polenske" <RV8TOR(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail dragger Training |
> > OK guys, you got me.! When I spoke of the taildragger
> >training I was not refering to a brand new, out of the shop -4, but a
used
> >one , with over 600 hrs on it. Sorry, I guess that I should have stated
> >that
> >up front....... As far as I know, you are allowed to use your own plane
for
> >this type of training and not be breaking any of the rules.........
> > I was just stating how difficult it is becoming to get
> >tailwheel training around here (the northeast) these days. I can see
where
> >a
> >new pilot with a new plane would be in a hell of a bind to get himself
> >legal
> >for the FAA as well as the insurance co. Easy guys, I'm on your
side!!!
> >Really............Happy flying
>
>
> I feel your pain! I had to fly to Florida to get dual
tailwheel/transition
> training in an RV8 with a CFI to be insurable. Getting basic tailwheel
> training locally was also a challenge, but I did find a CFI with a
Citabria
> in town who did my tailwheel sign off. The "art" of flying a tailwheel
> airplane is sadly drifting off into the sunset it would seem. There are
> many ATP's out there driving airliners who have never once strapped on a
> traildragger. This makes them no less a pilot by any means, but they're
> missing out on a lot of fun!
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
> Albuquerque, NM
> RV8 N94BD
This might not help you, but it might help someone in the Seattle Area. I'm
receiving my pilot training on Vashon Island from George Kirkish owner of
Island Air. George has 2 beautiful Cubs and a Maule that he does his
training in. I looked for a long time to find someone like George. He is
also interested in buying an RV-6 to do transition training in. So if you
live in the area and need your license or your tail wheel sign off give
him a call or check out his
web page WWW.Island-Air.com
Telephone
Call Toll Free 1-877-ISLE-AIR or local Seattle 206-567-4994
Gene Polenske
Wings still in the box, until I finish my license
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage pressure venting |
> Maybe some kind soul would make a flight with these removed (assuming
> they
> were installed in previous flights) and tell us what the heck
> happens?
>
> Check six!
> Mark
Mark,
I'll be over Saturday morning and we'll remove the covers from your
ship and take a test flight (or two or three)... I'll faithfully record
all drafts felt in the back seat and report back to the list.
Of course, to be a good test we'll have to establish baseline readings
(rightside up and 1G) and then verify the results upside down and at
various G loadings. Also various speeds from slow flight to redline.
The cold weather we're having (75 degrees F) will give a good test.
We want to be thorough here!
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Firewall Forward
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com> |
With all this talk of paint lately, I have a very basic question. I
purchased an hvlp gun and painted the inside of my fuselage. I would like
to paint the outside (fincial considerations). I am not looking for a show
plane, just something nice.
Would you guys recommend a single stage polyurethane or base coat/clear
coat? Which is easiest to apply? Which is easiest to maintain? Which is
best for repairing the inevitable painting screwups (runs etc.)?
REMEMBER, I have never painted anything in my life before (not even a car)
but I just can't afford a professional paint shop. We have a paint booth
available at our local EAA chapter and a Hobby-Air that I can borrow. So I
think I have all the required tools and a location, I just need to decide on
a paint system and manufacturer.
Vince Welch
RV-8A Finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John & Teresa Huft" <widgeon92L(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Cooler Mounting... |
Bill, the threads in the steel nuts are stronger than the threads in the
aluminum tubing, and replaceable, and less likely to gall, and the torque
value is known.
What are you gaining?
John rv8 fwf
Pagosa Springs, CO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Subject: RV-List: Oil Cooler Mounting...
I have something to run by you all...
I am mounting my oil cooler on the back of the baffles, and instead of
using the aluminum tubing and long bolts, I am thinking of using solid
aluminum tubing tapped and threaded on both ends with bolts, inside
locks, and flat washers... Here's some pix:
http://vondane.com/rv8a/engine/baffles/cooler2.jpg
http://vondane.com/rv8a/engine/baffles/cooler1.jpg
What do you all think?
-Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A - N8VD
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
mailto:bill(at)vondane.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
Would recommend single stage PPG Concept. Be aware that with many HVLP
guns it is very hard to avoid orange peel. I painted mine with a Croix
HVLP gun and am learning to love orange peel.
You can see my project on Randy Lervold's site: www.rv-8.com.
Randy also used PPG Concept.
Mike Robbins
RV8Q 80591 N88MJ cowling
Seattle area
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com>
>
> Would you guys recommend a single stage polyurethane or base
coat/clear
> coat? Which is easiest to apply? Which is easiest to maintain?
Which is
> best for repairing the inevitable painting screwups (runs etc.)?
> Vince Welch
> RV-8A Finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Cooler Mounting... |
I was given the aluminum rod, and didn't have to buy the long bolts, so
the only thing I am gaining is the money in my pocket...
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John & Teresa
Huft
Subject: RE: RV-List: Oil Cooler Mounting...
-->
Bill, the threads in the steel nuts are stronger than the threads in the
aluminum tubing, and replaceable, and less likely to gall, and the
torque value is known.
What are you gaining?
John rv8 fwf
Pagosa Springs, CO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Subject: RV-List: Oil Cooler Mounting...
I have something to run by you all...
I am mounting my oil cooler on the back of the baffles, and instead of
using the aluminum tubing and long bolts, I am thinking of using solid
aluminum tubing tapped and threaded on both ends with bolts, inside
locks, and flat washers... Here's some pix:
http://vondane.com/rv8a/engine/baffles/cooler2.jpg
http://vondane.com/rv8a/engine/baffles/cooler1.jpg
What do you all think?
-Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A - N8VD
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
mailto:bill(at)vondane.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Com, Transponder antennas |
I am wiring my RV6. Most of the panel stuff is done and am starting with the
radios. My question is where is the best location to mount the antennas for
the com, transponder, and GPS. Thinking the collective experience of list
members could be helpful here.
Thanks,
Bill Griffin RV6
Balto. MD RV6238(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
I'll agree with Mitch. I shot the outside of my RV with PPG Concept, which can
be polished out. Little cheaper than Dupont as well. Concept will polish out
nicely. Take a look at Sam B.'s site about polishing out your paint job. Nice
article.
Acylic urethanes like Concept are a little softer then poly urethanes like Imron.
As far as I know, the polyurethanes (like Imron) can't be polished out once they've
completley curred, making shooting it right more critical. I don't have
a lot of experience shooting polyurethanes, except I shot the interior of my RV
with PPG's polyurethane for wear/chip protection.
Single stage paints are easier to shoot then base/clear coats, and easier to repair.
I'm not one who likes HPLV guns, or at least the ones I've tried. They do save
paint and reduce overspray, but that's about the only thing they do well. Maybe
it just the ones I've tried.
I hope that answers some questions for you, or at least adds to the questions you
should be asking your paint supplier.
Good luck.
Laird
RV-6 SoCal
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Wed, Jan 9, 2002 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint
Would recommend single stage PPG Concept. Be aware that with many HVLP
guns it is very hard to avoid orange peel. I painted mine with a Croix
HVLP gun and am learning to love orange peel.
You can see my project on Randy Lervold's site: www.rv-8.com.
Randy also used PPG Concept.
Mike Robbins
RV8Q 80591 N88MJ cowling
Seattle area
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com>
>
> Would you guys recommend a single stage polyurethane or base
coat/clear
> coat? Which is easiest to apply? Which is easiest to maintain?
Which is
> best for repairing the inevitable painting screwups (runs etc.)?
> Vince Welch
> RV-8A Finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Mounting... |
Bill, what alloy is the aluminum rod? Unless it's one of the harder alloys
such as 7075T6, I would not recommend using the standard 1032 thread in it.
Even then the AN3 bolt and nut, with a tube in between, in compression can be
torqued to higher values and will better, when you take into consideration
the severe vibration environment.
Garry "Casper"
Bill VonDane wrote:
>
> I have something to run by you all...
>
> I am mounting my oil cooler on the back of the baffles, and instead of
> using the aluminum tubing and long bolts, I am thinking of using solid
> aluminum tubing tapped and threaded on both ends with bolts, inside
> locks, and flat washers... Here's some pix:
>
> http://vondane.com/rv8a/engine/baffles/cooler2.jpg
> http://vondane.com/rv8a/engine/baffles/cooler1.jpg
>
> What do you all think?
>
> -Bill VonDane
> Colorado Springs, CO
> RV-8A - N8VD
> http://vondane.com/rv8a/
> mailto:bill(at)vondane.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Don,
Caspers snorkel was actually intended to fix some issues with Van's design such
as; the inlet area was too large, the interconnect between the original snorkel
and the fab air box was too short, so it didn't seal after just a few hours and
excess vibration was transferred to the carb (which may be partly responsible
for the reported loosening of carb bolts).
Casper is a 6. Paul Bessing posted some pics last spring on his web site.
Donald Mei wrote:
> Gary,
>
> you mentioned the snorkel on your plane. Is it extended in the manner done
> in "Speed with Efficiency"? I'm toying with making some mods to my plane
> and was wondering what you've done. What RV model do you have?
> Pics would be good if they show any noticeable changes.
>
> Don
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
Go to Sam B's Site excellent painting article from start to finish.
Garry "Casper"
Vincent Welch wrote:
>
> With all this talk of paint lately, I have a very basic question. I
> purchased an hvlp gun and painted the inside of my fuselage. I would like
> to paint the outside (fincial considerations). I am not looking for a show
> plane, just something nice.
> Snip
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuselage pressure venting |
Mark,
This is another possibility to check out. I chose the location for Casper
because I wanted to have the air being fed into a low pressure area that would
have the greatest benefit down stream. But who knows, your idea may work better,
only flight test will tell. Unfortunately "Casper" is going to be down for two
to three weeks.
Here is a quote I like to use when engineers spout formulas ad nauseum, " If
Aeronautics were an exact science we wouldn't need wind tunnels and test
pilots".
Garry "Casper"
Mlfred(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hey Casper:
>
> I didn't install the small cuff fairings around the lower sfc of the H Stab
> on my ship. As you may realize, this is a low pressure area, and works very
> well as an outlet (or pressure relief area). That's my story, and I'm
> stickin' to it.
>
> Well, at least it would seem to, judging from the lack of mysterious breezes
> in the cockpit area (tho I've never ridden with the esteemed Mr Gummibear).
> Sorry -- couldn't resist! Too many Eric Henson posts recently....
>
> Maybe some kind soul would make a flight with these removed (assuming they
> were installed in previous flights) and tell us what the heck happens?
>
> Check six!
> Mark
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 1/9/2002 8:42:44 AM Pacific Standard Time,
welchvincent(at)hotmail.com writes:
> With all this talk of paint lately, I have a very basic question. I
> purchased an hvlp gun and painted the inside of my fuselage. I would like
> to paint the outside (fincial considerations). I am not looking for a show
>
> plane, just something nice.
>
> Would you guys recommend a single stage polyurethane or base coat/clear
> coat? Which is easiest to apply? Which is easiest to maintain? Which is
> best for repairing the inevitable painting screwups (runs etc.)?
>
> REMEMBER, I have never painted anything in my life before (not even a car)
> but I just can't afford a professional paint shop. We have a paint booth
> available at our local EAA chapter and a Hobby-Air that I can borrow. So I
>
> think I have all the required tools and a location, I just need to decide
> on
> a paint system and manufacturer.
>
> Vince Welch
> RV-8A Finishing
>
It is of my opinion that single stage polyurethane is the best on aircraft
specially if you ever have to do a repair or touch up, the key to a good
single stage paint job is using a good primer, controlling the dust and most
important to control the temperature (80-85 degrees). You can always color
sand and polish after the paint dries. If you buy from a good automotive
paint supplier ask him about the tricks that work on that type of paint, he
will tell you. Most paint manufactures have a color lab / tech group you can
ask to what works good with the type of paint you use. Good luck
Tim Barnes
Meangreen RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 1/9/2002 9:55:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Owens(at)aerovironment.com writes:
> As far as I know, the polyurethanes (like Imron) can't be polished out once
> they've completley curred, making shooting it right more critical. I don't
> have a lot of experience shooting polyurethanes, except I shot the interior
> of my RV with PPG's polyurethane for wear/chip protection.
>
>
Yes polyurethanes (like Imron) can be polished out once they've completley
curred. I did it. It does however require a little more work.
Tim Barnes
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
02:22:49 PM
This is one of those questions like which is better, red airplanes or blue
airplanes.
You'll get a comfort level with either type of paint and paint gun. I
believe a great paint job is made with sandpaper, polishing compound and
elbow grease. If an HVLP is all you've ever used, you love it. Highly
recommend using a small orafice (1.2 mm). My biggest problem with single
stage coats is balancing between dry spot and runs. With a dual stage, I
could give a flip if I get a run, its all going to get sanded anyway, and I
won't have to worry about removing color and creating light spots in
sunlight.
I have seen several $7,500 paint jobs in the last year or so that begged to
be wet sanded. Almost as much orange peel as my wifes new Durango has, but
thats another rant. Can you believe she won't let me wet sand her leased
Durango?
Eric
"Owens, Laird" (at)matronics.com on 01/09/2002
12:52:35 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RE: RV-List: Paint
I'll agree with Mitch. I shot the outside of my RV with PPG Concept, which
can be polished out. Little cheaper than Dupont as well. Concept will
polish out nicely. Take a look at Sam B.'s site about polishing out your
paint job. Nice article.
Acylic urethanes like Concept are a little softer then poly urethanes like
Imron.
As far as I know, the polyurethanes (like Imron) can't be polished out once
they've completley curred, making shooting it right more critical. I don't
have a lot of experience shooting polyurethanes, except I shot the interior
of my RV with PPG's polyurethane for wear/chip protection.
Single stage paints are easier to shoot then base/clear coats, and easier
to repair.
I'm not one who likes HPLV guns, or at least the ones I've tried. They do
save paint and reduce overspray, but that's about the only thing they do
well. Maybe it just the ones I've tried.
I hope that answers some questions for you, or at least adds to the
questions you should be asking your paint supplier.
Good luck.
Laird
RV-6 SoCal
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Wed, Jan 9, 2002 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint
Would recommend single stage PPG Concept. Be aware that with many HVLP
guns it is very hard to avoid orange peel. I painted mine with a Croix
HVLP gun and am learning to love orange peel.
You can see my project on Randy Lervold's site: www.rv-8.com.
Randy also used PPG Concept.
Mike Robbins
RV8Q 80591 N88MJ cowling
Seattle area
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com>
>
> Would you guys recommend a single stage polyurethane or base
coat/clear
> coat? Which is easiest to apply? Which is easiest to maintain?
Which is
> best for repairing the inevitable painting screwups (runs etc.)?
> Vince Welch
> RV-8A Finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
"Michael J. Robbins" wrote:
>
>
> Would recommend single stage PPG Concept. Be aware that with many HVLP
> guns it is very hard to avoid orange peel. I painted mine with a Croix
> HVLP gun and am learning to love orange peel.
>
> You can see my project on Randy Lervold's site: www.rv-8.com.
>
> Randy also used PPG Concept.
Another PPG Concept paint job:
http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/paint1.html
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, just back from GREAT lunch flight to PLR.....what a
gorgeous day in the SE USA....)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Mounting... |
<< Why make more work when it is more complex, harder to check (annuals, etc),
and the current system is perfect?
jim
Tampa
THIS COMING FROM YOU jIM? thats ironic
scott
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Berryhill" <berryhill1911(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Dual throttle in RV6/7? |
Here's an interesting question for all of you engineering types:
Would it be possible to put dual throttle controls in a -6 or -7? Leave the
primary throttle/mixture/prop controls in the center of the instrument panel
but add a second throttle control on the left side of the cockpit so the
pilot in the left seat can fly with his right hand on the stick? I know
some builders have put all of the controls on the left but an article in the
December 2001 issue of Kitplanes Magazine got me thinking........
The article is about a Falco. The builder put a throttle/mixture/prop
quadrant in the center of the cockpit (the Falco has side-by-side seats) and
a throttle lever on the left side of the left seat so he can fly with his
right hand on the stick (page 11 shows the center quadrant and page 12 shows
the left-hand throttle lever for those of you who have this magazine).
The left hand throttle lever has pushrod that goes forward, under the
instruments and towards the firewall. The article doesn't mention if the
center quadrant throttle has a pushrod or cable.
How could you build this so both throttle controls move together? (I've
also seen that the Zenith 601 has dual push/pull throttle controls) Would
connecting 2 cables to the throttle arm create too much drag? How about a
bellcrank that connects to both throttle controls on one side with pushrod
that connects to the throttle arm on the other side?
Has anyone kicked this idea around before?
Dave Berryhill
"I'm a Dapper-Dan man"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Puckett <rv8er(at)concentric.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Oil Cooler Mounting... |
Bill,
I'm getting to the point also where I'm looking into how to mount my oil
cooler and am having concerns about it also.
I've got the SW 10614R cooler that came off the M20J with my motor. This
thing is huge and with the inverted oil there is no good place on the
firewall. With the 200hp motor I'm liking the idea of using this cooler if I
can make it work.
My concern, that may interest you, is;
Has anyone had any maintenance problems mounting the cooler to the baffles
themselves? It sure seems like a lot of weight and vibration. I dug out the
old Mooney baffles to see what they did and I noticed it was located aft of
the left rear baffle like many of us have done. The difference is that the
cooler must have been physically bolted to either the engine mount or the
firewall. They then used a "floating seal" between the cooler and the rear
baffle exit hole. I'm wondering if the reason for this is not to have that
weight hanging on the baffle?
Anyone have any insight into this?
As tightly cowled as the Mooney is there is definitely less room in the RV-8
cowl.
Greg Puckett
Elizabeth, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paulbaird(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dual throttle in RV6/7? |
Dave,
My friend put exactly what you want in his Glasair. We are going to put
it in our RV9. He just ran a push pull cable from both throttles to the
carb. They move together and don't have any more drag than one throttle.
Good Luck,
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <racker(at)rmci.net> |
Saw one RV-6 that had two throttle cables, hooked up with a common bolt
through the carb throttle arm. Make sure to remove the friction lock on
the LH throttle, use the center throttle friction lock to set friction for
both controls.
Rob Acker (RV-6, moving to hangar tonight)
>
>
> Here's an interesting question for all of you engineering types:
>
> Would it be possible to put dual throttle controls in a -6 or -7?
> Leave the primary throttle/mixture/prop controls in the center of the
> instrument panel but add a second throttle control on the left side of
> the cockpit so the pilot in the left seat can fly with his right hand
> on the stick? I know some builders have put all of the controls on
> the left but an article in the December 2001 issue of Kitplanes
> Magazine got me thinking........
>
> The article is about a Falco. The builder put a throttle/mixture/prop
> quadrant in the center of the cockpit (the Falco has side-by-side
> seats) and a throttle lever on the left side of the left seat so he
> can fly with his right hand on the stick (page 11 shows the center
> quadrant and page 12 shows the left-hand throttle lever for those of
> you who have this magazine).
>
> The left hand throttle lever has pushrod that goes forward, under the
> instruments and towards the firewall. The article doesn't mention if
> the center quadrant throttle has a pushrod or cable.
>
> How could you build this so both throttle controls move together?
> (I've also seen that the Zenith 601 has dual push/pull throttle
> controls) Would connecting 2 cables to the throttle arm create too
> much drag? How about a bellcrank that connects to both throttle
> controls on one side with pushrod that connects to the throttle arm on
> the other side?
>
> Has anyone kicked this idea around before?
>
> Dave Berryhill
> "I'm a Dapper-Dan man"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Berryhill" <berryhill1911(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual throttle in RV6/7? |
>Dave,
> My friend put exactly what you want in his Glasair. We are going to
>put
>it in our RV9. He just ran a push pull cable from both throttles to the
>carb. They move together and don't have any more drag than one throttle.
>Good Luck,
>Paul
>
Are there any safety issues, such as the cables being more prone to binding
or sticking, that should be considered?
Dave Berryhill
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Knicholas2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Cushions RV-6A |
Can someone give me John Hovans' web address. The one I found does not work.
Kim Nicholas
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Knicholas2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: defroster design - tri-state wing newsletter |
I recall seeing an article about a dash defroster in the RV'r about a year
ago. If you need a copy I can mail one. (or learn how to scan and
e-mail.....)
Kim Nicholas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
Vince,
I used PPG acrlic DelStar enamel and a Wagner hvlp
to shoot my RV4. Love the paint, the gun and the results!
Great results and it has proved durable after 4 years of flying.
This is a catalized paint (hardner) and easy to shoot.
Stewart RV4 273SB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca> |
| Subject: | Seat Cushions RV-6A |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Knicholas2(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Seat Cushions RV-6A
Can someone give me John Hovans' web address. The one I found does not
work.
Kim Nicholas
Seattle
Hi Kim
The address that I have is www.matronics.com/rv-list/hovan
See you are in Seattle, I bought upholstery material at Boeing surplus.
Priced by the pound it was a great buy.
George McNutt
Langley B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Finishing Fiberglass Panel |
Jim,
Thanks for sharing, I just didn't want people to think that any ol glass panel
is going to take that long.
I started out pretty much like you wanting to use a Glasair panel, but thought
I could do something a little better suited to the RV. Like you said, everybody
wants a little something different. What I came up with is kinda middle of
the road.
My panel is the part of my airplane that gets the most comments at shows, I'm sure
yours will be as well. Glad your over that hurdle.
I can't wait to see it and Ralphs IK-2000.
Laird
http://www.planes-wings-things.com/rv-6_panel.htm
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Wed, Jan 9, 2002 6:32 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Finishing Fiberglass Panel
Laird,
I'm aware of the nice fiberglass panels that you make, but I thought I would
try to get something more "curvy".
I started off with a fancy fiberglass panel from Aerotronics, meant for a
Glassair. It didn't fit in the x, y or Z axis, but had lots of curves I
liked, so I started cutting, shaping, etc. You can see the panel that I
started with on the bottom right hand side of this page:
http://www.aerotronics.com/experimental.asp
Keep in mind when you look at it that I changed every sub-panel except the
far left one.
Long story made short... This panel is too curved (front to back), to long
(side to side), too wide (the console down the middle), too tall (where the
glare-shield goes), the third panel is not large enough for a stereo (the
only place a stereo could go) and the central "radio" panel is not tall
enough to take a full UPS stack (which I want to use). Overall, I cut this
thing into lots of pieces and glassed them back together many times. All
sub-panels were changed in both dimensions with the exception of the far
left one. There are no provisions for the vernier engine controls, so this
was created. The console that comes down between the two people (this is an
RV-6A) is way too wide, so I cut a 2.25 inch section out of the middle, and
glassed it back together. The end of this console ends blindly about 3/4 of
the way down to the spar and is un-finished, so more was added here to join
into the spar and include the fuel tank switch.
Blah, blah, blah... I then took the entire thing to Memphis TN and spend a
day with Steve Davis who cut and reverse engraved all 6 sub panels.
Now that it is done, it is truly a work of art and one of a kind. It is
very functional... HOWEVER...
To do this again, I would start with your panel and modify it... I wanted
something unique but started with the unique piece and worked very hard to
make it fit. In retrospect, it would be much smarter to get something that
fits (like your panel) and modify it to be unique (keeping in mind that I
very much enjoy working with fiberglass!). It is no exaggeration to say that
this panel took nearly as much work as building a wing (non-pre-punched
kit)!!
I do not have a digital picture of it, but I do have a video tape of me
cursing at it!!! I'll get some photos soon, showing the panel and its new
IK-2000 installed.
jim
Tampa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Owens, Laird
Subject: RV-List: Finishing Fiberglass Panel
Jim,
I'm curious, can you break down how you put 200 hrs into a fiberglass panel.
That's 5 weeks of full time work!
You say you wouldn't do it again. Can you elaborate why not, and do you have
any pictures?
Laird
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Wed, Jan 9, 2002 3:07 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Oil Cooler Mounting...
Scott,
Yep it does seem ironic... I just picked up my panel at the painter a few
minutes ago. I figure I have well over 200 hours in the fiberglass piece of
this panel... thats not including any instruments, wires, etc.. just the
piece of fiberglass.
Stein... are you listening?
Thus... I wouldn't do it again... but it will be cool and everybody can see
it... not so for the oil cooler bolts!
jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: defroster design - tri-state wing newsletter |
> I am interested in some sort of canopy defroster for the 6A
I used two little 12 volt muffin fans that I bought at - gasp - Radio Shack.
I mounted them just under the windscreen, and cannabalized a floor heat
register for diffusers. The floor register I found was perfect, it was
typical size with three separate rotatable, round diffusers. I cut two of
them out and mounted them to the sheet metal above the panel. It is made
from plastic.
BTW, I have used them several times already, although I've only need them
for ground ops. Rain once, and cold weather the other times.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A N66AP flying 77 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Oil cooler mounting |
Finished mounting my cooler today and will pass on the why's and
werefor's.
On my RV6 I chose to mount a nine row Stewart Warner on and under the
left hand forward baffle which is more or less flush with the air inlet
of the cowling. This has worked well for ten years with only one minor
crack repair in one corner of the cut out. This installation has been
able to keep the oil temps at the vernatherm setting under the most
severe conditions including all the testing that was done on the amphib
float installation.
When it came time to install the cooler on the 6A I decided to go the
same route. Having read
a lot of hot oil discussions on this list and knowing that the
installation on the 6 had no problems it didn't make any sense to do
something different. I wanted to get the same cooler for the 6A but
found that it was not available from Vans or ACS so gave Pacific Oil
Cooler Services a call and they shipped the cooler the same day. However
when it arrived it was the right size cooler but had both fittings on
one end which wouldn't work for my installation, was my fault for not
giving them enough detail. Included with the cooler was some advertising
material and a brochure on the 7 & 9 row Aero Classic which is the same
as the Stewart Warner but sold to the home builders. I talked to Pacific
and they had no problem with a swap. I received the 9 row Aero classic a
couple of days ago, the same as the Stewart Warner and carries a 2 year
2000 hour warranty and the price was 205.00 and got a 150.00 credit to
my Visa. The folks at Pacific get top marks from me.
I had finished the baffles (Van's kit) so removed the left front baffle
and installed the cooler, installation time was six hours. Would be
happy to supply more detail and pictures if it is of any interest.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> |
| Subject: | Finishing Fiberglass Panel |
Listers beware!
When companies tell you they have something that fits, or will fit with a
little bit of work... ask the guys on the list. Laird's fiberglass panel is
the way to go if you want a fiberglass panel. There may be others out there,
but I know of none... and the panels from the "plastic" airplanes do not fit
without a lot of work.
jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Owens, Laird
Subject: RE: RV-List: Finishing Fiberglass Panel
Jim,
Thanks for sharing, I just didn't want people to think that any ol glass
panel is going to take that long.
I started out pretty much like you wanting to use a Glasair panel, but
thought I could do something a little better suited to the RV. Like you
said, everybody wants a little something different. What I came up with is
kinda middle of the road.
My panel is the part of my airplane that gets the most comments at shows,
I'm sure yours will be as well. Glad your over that hurdle.
I can't wait to see it and Ralphs IK-2000.
Laird
http://www.planes-wings-things.com/rv-6_panel.htm
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Wed, Jan 9, 2002 6:32 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Finishing Fiberglass Panel
Laird,
I'm aware of the nice fiberglass panels that you make, but I thought I would
try to get something more "curvy".
I started off with a fancy fiberglass panel from Aerotronics, meant for a
Glassair. It didn't fit in the x, y or Z axis, but had lots of curves I
liked, so I started cutting, shaping, etc. You can see the panel that I
started with on the bottom right hand side of this page:
http://www.aerotronics.com/experimental.asp
Keep in mind when you look at it that I changed every sub-panel except the
far left one.
Long story made short... This panel is too curved (front to back), to long
(side to side), too wide (the console down the middle), too tall (where the
glare-shield goes), the third panel is not large enough for a stereo (the
only place a stereo could go) and the central "radio" panel is not tall
enough to take a full UPS stack (which I want to use). Overall, I cut this
thing into lots of pieces and glassed them back together many times. All
sub-panels were changed in both dimensions with the exception of the far
left one. There are no provisions for the vernier engine controls, so this
was created. The console that comes down between the two people (this is an
RV-6A) is way too wide, so I cut a 2.25 inch section out of the middle, and
glassed it back together. The end of this console ends blindly about 3/4 of
the way down to the spar and is un-finished, so more was added here to join
into the spar and include the fuel tank switch.
Blah, blah, blah... I then took the entire thing to Memphis TN and spend a
day with Steve Davis who cut and reverse engraved all 6 sub panels.
Now that it is done, it is truly a work of art and one of a kind. It is
very functional... HOWEVER...
To do this again, I would start with your panel and modify it... I wanted
something unique but started with the unique piece and worked very hard to
make it fit. In retrospect, it would be much smarter to get something that
fits (like your panel) and modify it to be unique (keeping in mind that I
very much enjoy working with fiberglass!). It is no exaggeration to say that
this panel took nearly as much work as building a wing (non-pre-punched
kit)!!
I do not have a digital picture of it, but I do have a video tape of me
cursing at it!!! I'll get some photos soon, showing the panel and its new
IK-2000 installed.
jim
Tampa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Owens, Laird
Subject: RV-List: Finishing Fiberglass Panel
Jim,
I'm curious, can you break down how you put 200 hrs into a fiberglass panel.
That's 5 weeks of full time work!
You say you wouldn't do it again. Can you elaborate why not, and do you have
any pictures?
Laird
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Wed, Jan 9, 2002 3:07 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Oil Cooler Mounting...
Scott,
Yep it does seem ironic... I just picked up my panel at the painter a few
minutes ago. I figure I have well over 200 hours in the fiberglass piece of
this panel... thats not including any instruments, wires, etc.. just the
piece of fiberglass.
Stein... are you listening?
Thus... I wouldn't do it again... but it will be cool and everybody can see
it... not so for the oil cooler bolts!
jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Mcmahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
Vincent
What you may want to consider is 2 day paint school put on
by PPG..They have schools in various parts of the states.
The reason that I went ??Well I have been working on this
RV 6 on and off for 10 years now ,and I have come this
far ,and invested more that I care to admit to so I think
I can stand to spend $190.00 for 2 days in paint school
and learn how to shoot just about every paint gun ever made
(and do it wrong ) They have a first rate school ..For me I guess
it will help on the learning curve for this old man.they will show you
many things ,but mostly how to set up a paint gun ,how to READ
INSTRUCTIONS.I painted about 25 fenders with every gun they
had..If some one is interested I will try to get get them the info..
Contact me off the list
Thanks
John McMahon
Gallatin,Tn
(canopy)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Oil Cooler Mounting... |
> Has anyone had any maintenance problems mounting the cooler to
> the baffles themselves? It sure seems like a lot of weight and vibration.
IMHO the left rear baffle is a good place to mount the oil cooler. It yields
probably the best cooling of any location. The key to avoid baffle cracking
is to make sure its braced properly. Go to
http://www.edt.com/homewing/rhproject/fwallfwd.html for one example. I've
had my share of under the cowl chafing/cracking issues with my 0360/CS
powered RV-6, but none of them have involved the oil cooler/baffling.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~300 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Oil Cooler Mounting... |
In following the RV code, I blatently plagerized a few other RV builders and
Made a brace for my oil cooler install on the rear baffle. Not flying yet,
but I hope I've made it sturdy enough to last. Pics at
http://www.steinair.com under the engine section. More pictures to come.
On a side note, Thanks Randall for a great site which has allowed me to
"Steal" many of his ideas!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6, Minneapolis, Still Finishing.
> Has anyone had any maintenance problems mounting the cooler to
> the baffles themselves? It sure seems like a lot of weight and vibration.
IMHO the left rear baffle is a good place to mount the oil cooler. It yields
probably the best cooling of any location. The key to avoid baffle cracking
is to make sure its braced properly. Go to
http://www.edt.com/homewing/rhproject/fwallfwd.html for one example. I've
had my share of under the cowl chafing/cracking issues with my 0360/CS
powered RV-6, but none of them have involved the oil cooler/baffling.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~300 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Air Conditioning an RV (was NACA ducts) |
| From: | Gary Graham <beeb(at)teleport.com> |
To Laird, Garry, Garry, Bob, Mike, et al.
It sure is great to see that the subject of tail pumping (and what to do
about it) is finally catching on. Since I started posting on this subject
over a year ago, it is a pleasure to jump into the pool with such an
esteemed group. I sincerely hope the splash doesn't go up your nose.
We have all heard the pros (low drag) and cons (don't work in some
locations) of NACA ducts (scoops). Probably 95% of the implementations are
to let air into the aircraft, yet most builders leave out the inverted air
foil under under the inlet lip that helps pull air into the plenum. The
horn diffuser, ramp and vortex generator aspects are usually adequately
implemented. It took several years for folks to find that the high pressure
area under the wing made them work very well, without much risk of exhaust,
etc. We didn't emphasize comfort in the old days.
However, I come her to praise the outlet not the inlet interest. I sure am
pleased that all seem to agree that tail pumping is the BIG problem. I have
recommended use of a reverse NACA in the past (in a relative low pressure
area) to aid in the conditioned air flow through the cockpit. This turning
around of the available part from Vans (as has so well been pointed out) is
not the most optimal solution to reversing the NACA concept (it was just
easy and works when properly located and is a low drag hole). A reversed
NACA design would have a low pressure generating airfoil (or wedge) on the
outside and upwind of the lateral lip (or bend the lip outward slightly.
The horn would still be divergent (getting wider, aft from the outlet). It
was suggested 11 deg. max when using straight sides. Is that 11 deg. per
side? The slope of the ramp would stay about the same. You would end up
with a low pressure outlet that blended the outlet air into to the air
stream. This hole doesn't have to be any bigger than the pressurized inlet
air hole that you designed (assuming it is pressurized). The cockpit will
pressurize and you will have plenty of good (warm and Cool) air flow.
However, (and here is the splash) all this works really well if we don't
try to poke all the problems into one hole (notwithstanding, that old adage
about cubic inches). The tail pumps and pumps a lot of air. I say fix it.
The first bulkhead in the tail that the elevator push/pull tube passes
through(front to aft) has two big holes and one square hole. The bulkhead
at the end of the top skin has a big hole (big = 6"). Seal these with Mylar
or painted gauze. etc. That is three big holes plugged. As for the square
hole, install a boot made of synthetic suede or filled nylon (both very
light and flexible and non porous) about 10" long and pointed forward
(pressure keeps inflated) Heck, all you have to do is figure out how to get
in there. ATTN. new builders!!! As for control drag, where can I buy some?
About the inspection plate idea. I very much doubt that it will work
because they are too far back. I used the same idea but I have a non
standard inspection plate just ahead of the bulkhead (to seal up). There is
surface drag associated with this devise but not a lot, and compared to the
benefits......... The size of my RV-4s outlet hole (like round) is 1.25D"
It worked fairly well before I started sealing up bulkheads. Don't forget
to provide for air flow through the cockpit(i.e. baggage compartment) to the
tail once it is sealed, booted and ported. The things that live back there
need air too.
Just another Gary (lost the other 'r' in the big one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Planejoel(at)aol.com |
The wife is starting to make funny sounds about soloing the airplane. (Oh no
there go my tires) She would like to know if any other women out there have
soloed in the RV
Joe
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Nowakowski" <nowakod(at)us.ibm.com> |
01/10/2002 07:16:51 AM
Fellow RV enthusiasts, My RV-6 is finally coming out of the paint shop (40+
hrs of sanding and buffing and I could easily do another 40 but it looks
good enough for me (my arms feel like spaghetti)......not a show plane) and
I realize that I do not like painted fuel caps. I want to get them engraved
as I have seen on other RV's. I understand that Steve Davis does this. Is
this correct? I have looked up his number in the yeller pages and have
called several times but it does not work (fast busy signal, always!!), I
have also tried the e-mail approach but the messages get bounced back. Can
somebody help me out? How do I get ahold of Steve Davis? Any help would be
greatly appreciated. Please respond to me off list as I just get the digest
and if you reply to the list, I won't get it until tomorow. You could reply
to both places....maybe there is somebody else out there trying to get
ahold of Steve? Thanks in advance......don
Don Nowakowski , Equipment Engineering Tech
Telephone (802)288-3359,
"The Laws of Aerodynamics are unforgiving and the ground is hard."
Michael Collins (1987)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <douggray(at)ihug.com.au> |
| Subject: | Question concerning the split seat rib & floor stiffner angles |
- RV-6
Refer Drwg 33 Top RHS.
Q1...What purpose do the cutouts serve in the forward flange of this
rib? Are they for wires perhaps?
Q2... I assume that only one rib has the split and splice treatment,
correct? If so, is there enough room to remove and replace the welded
part Wd-610?
Q3... An unrelated question but in the same general area... I can find
no callout for the two inner floor stiffner angles running from the
firewall aluminum brackets to the fuel selector supports. Are these
3/4" x .125" or 3/4" x .063" ? The only clue I see is the rivet callout
(Dwg 36) along the bottom skin, same for all the stiffner angles which
would suggest .063". (Thanks Randall for the heads up on bolting these
to the fuel selector supports.)
Thanks,
Doug Gray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Newton" <enewton57(at)cableone.net> |
His website is here:
http://members.aol.com/panelcut/
You might try through there.
Regards,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
RV-6A N57ME (Flying)
www.ericsrv6a.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald Nowakowski" <nowakod(at)us.ibm.com>
Subject: RV-List: Fuel caps
>
> Fellow RV enthusiasts, My RV-6 is finally coming out of the paint shop
(40+
> hrs of sanding and buffing and I could easily do another 40 but it looks
> good enough for me (my arms feel like spaghetti)......not a show plane)
and
> I realize that I do not like painted fuel caps. I want to get them
engraved
> as I have seen on other RV's. I understand that Steve Davis does this. Is
> this correct? I have looked up his number in the yeller pages and have
> called several times but it does not work (fast busy signal, always!!), I
> have also tried the e-mail approach but the messages get bounced back. Can
> somebody help me out? How do I get ahold of Steve Davis? Any help would be
> greatly appreciated. Please respond to me off list as I just get the
digest
> and if you reply to the list, I won't get it until tomorow. You could
reply
> to both places....maybe there is somebody else out there trying to get
> ahold of Steve? Thanks in advance......don
>
> Don Nowakowski , Equipment Engineering Tech
> Telephone (802)288-3359,
>
>
> "The Laws of Aerodynamics are unforgiving and the ground is hard."
> Michael Collins (1987)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel caps - Steve Davis |
I'll give you Steve's contact information if you tell him to get my panels
back to me soon!
sdavis12(at)midsouth.rr.com
(901) 526-0491
jim
Tampa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Donald
Nowakowski
Subject: RV-List: Fuel caps
Fellow RV enthusiasts, My RV-6 is finally coming out of the paint shop (40+
hrs of sanding and buffing and I could easily do another 40 but it looks
good enough for me (my arms feel like spaghetti)......not a show plane) and
I realize that I do not like painted fuel caps. I want to get them engraved
as I have seen on other RV's. I understand that Steve Davis does this. Is
this correct? I have looked up his number in the yeller pages and have
called several times but it does not work (fast busy signal, always!!), I
have also tried the e-mail approach but the messages get bounced back. Can
somebody help me out? How do I get ahold of Steve Davis? Any help would be
greatly appreciated. Please respond to me off list as I just get the digest
and if you reply to the list, I won't get it until tomorow. You could reply
to both places....maybe there is somebody else out there trying to get
ahold of Steve? Thanks in advance......don
Don Nowakowski , Equipment Engineering Tech
Telephone (802)288-3359,
"The Laws of Aerodynamics are unforgiving and the ground is hard."
Michael Collins (1987)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Eaves" <doneaves(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
Phone #:
901-527-5265 or 901-526-0491
Web Page:
http://members.aol.com/panelcut/
Don Eaves
doneaves(at)midsouth.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald Nowakowski" <nowakod(at)us.ibm.com>
Subject: RV-List: Fuel caps
>
> Fellow RV enthusiasts, My RV-6 is finally coming out of the paint shop
(40+
> hrs of sanding and buffing and I could easily do another 40 but it looks
> good enough for me (my arms feel like spaghetti)......not a show plane)
and
> I realize that I do not like painted fuel caps. I want to get them
engraved
> as I have seen on other RV's. I understand that Steve Davis does this. Is
> this correct? I have looked up his number in the yeller pages and have
> called several times but it does not work (fast busy signal, always!!), I
> have also tried the e-mail approach but the messages get bounced back. Can
> somebody help me out? How do I get ahold of Steve Davis? Any help would be
> greatly appreciated. Please respond to me off list as I just get the
digest
> and if you reply to the list, I won't get it until tomorow. You could
reply
> to both places....maybe there is somebody else out there trying to get
> ahold of Steve? Thanks in advance......don
>
> Don Nowakowski , Equipment Engineering Tech
> Telephone (802)288-3359,
>
>
> "The Laws of Aerodynamics are unforgiving and the ground is hard."
> Michael Collins (1987)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Newton" <enewton57(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question concerning the split seat rib & floor stiffner angles |
- RV-6
Hi Doug,
See answers below:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Gray" <douggray(at)ihug.com.au>
Subject: RV-List: Question concerning the split seat rib & floor stiffner
angles - RV-6
> Refer Drwg 33 Top RHS.
>
> Q1...What purpose do the cutouts serve in the forward flange of this
> rib? Are they for wires perhaps?
These are to allow room for the steel splice plates that bolt in when
you mount your wings to the bulkhead. I ended up opening mine a little more
than the callout because the bolt/nut ended up lining up right there and
I needed more room for access to the nut.
> Q2... I assume that only one rib has the split and splice treatment,
> correct? If so, is there enough room to remove and replace the welded
> part Wd-610?
Yes, but I ended up doing the split on both of the inside seat ribs and
glad I did. It would be difficult to get the control weldment in and out
without both being split.
>
> Q3... An unrelated question but in the same general area... I can find
> no callout for the two inner floor stiffner angles running from the
> firewall aluminum brackets to the fuel selector supports. Are these
> 3/4" x .125" or 3/4" x .063" ? The only clue I see is the rivet callout
> (Dwg 36) along the bottom skin, same for all the stiffner angles which
> would suggest .063".
They are the same as the other floor stiffener angles .063".
(Thanks Randall for the heads up on bolting these
> to the fuel selector supports.)
>
> Thanks,
> Doug Gray
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>
> The wife is starting to make funny sounds about soloing the airplane. (Oh
no
> there go my tires) She would like to know if any other women out there
have
> soloed in the RV
>
Joe
> RV6A
>
Well yes, very many have. My friend Judy Stocks had to solo an RV-6A, so
she could fly the plane she built. See the recent "Sport Aviation" with the
RV-7 on the cover for an article on her and other woman builders. Barry
Burke, from Alamogordo is probably still on this list. When I spoke to his
wife Deanne at Las Cruces, she was about to solo their 6A.
I happened to see Dave Anders here at Carlsbad a few years ago. When he and
his wife departed for California, she was flying their cherry, highly
modified, hopped up, valuable, ultra-fast, record holding and unique RV-4.
Tell her to go for it. When you go to the fly-ins, alternate flying legs.
Enjoy the looks you get when the two of you taxi up with you holding down
the right seat.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> |
Gary Zilik's wife Carolyn recently soloed their RV-6A...
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Pardue
Subject: Re: RV-List: Solo Wife
>
>
> The wife is starting to make funny sounds about soloing the airplane.
> (Oh
no
> there go my tires) She would like to know if any other women out there
have
> soloed in the RV
>
Joe
> RV6A
>
Well yes, very many have. My friend Judy Stocks had to solo an RV-6A,
so she could fly the plane she built. See the recent "Sport Aviation"
with the RV-7 on the cover for an article on her and other woman
builders. Barry Burke, from Alamogordo is probably still on this list.
When I spoke to his wife Deanne at Las Cruces, she was about to solo
their 6A.
I happened to see Dave Anders here at Carlsbad a few years ago. When he
and his wife departed for California, she was flying their cherry,
highly modified, hopped up, valuable, ultra-fast, record holding and
unique RV-4.
Tell her to go for it. When you go to the fly-ins, alternate flying
legs. Enjoy the looks you get when the two of you taxi up with you
holding down the right seat.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com> |
You are so lucky. Don't you dare discourage her.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Planejoel(at)aol.com [mailto:Planejoel(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 5:16 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Solo Wife
>
>
>
>
> The wife is starting to make funny sounds about soloing the
> airplane. (Oh no
> there go my tires) She would like to know if any other women
> out there have
> soloed in the RV
>
> Joe
> RV6A
>
>
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Chrome Fuel caps |
A suggestion. If you want your caps chrome, and you plan on having Steve
engrave them, have them chromed first. This way you can fill the engraved
letters with paint. If you chrome afterwards, it fills up the letters, and
paint won't stick to chrome.
Paul Besing
RV-6A N197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Flying
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald Nowakowski" <nowakod(at)us.ibm.com>
Subject: RV-List: Fuel caps
>
> Fellow RV enthusiasts, My RV-6 is finally coming out of the paint shop
(40+
> hrs of sanding and buffing and I could easily do another 40 but it looks
> good enough for me (my arms feel like spaghetti)......not a show plane)
and
> I realize that I do not like painted fuel caps. I want to get them
engraved
> as I have seen on other RV's. I understand that Steve Davis does this. Is
> this correct? I have looked up his number in the yeller pages and have
> called several times but it does not work (fast busy signal, always!!), I
> have also tried the e-mail approach but the messages get bounced back. Can
> somebody help me out? How do I get ahold of Steve Davis? Any help would be
> greatly appreciated. Please respond to me off list as I just get the
digest
> and if you reply to the list, I won't get it until tomorow. You could
reply
> to both places....maybe there is somebody else out there trying to get
> ahold of Steve? Thanks in advance......don
>
> Don Nowakowski , Equipment Engineering Tech
> Telephone (802)288-3359,
>
>
> "The Laws of Aerodynamics are unforgiving and the ground is hard."
> Michael Collins (1987)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> |
| Subject: | Automotive wires and plugs.... |
"Rv8list@Egroups"
Thanks for all the input on mounting my oil cooler... I am going to try
it the way I depicted and see how it goes...
I have another question...
I was reading an article in Custom Planes mag last night were a guy had
one electronic ignition and used automotive wires and plugs with his
remaining mag... I am interested in doing this with both my mags if
it's possible... Any input would be appreciated...
-Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A - N8VD
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
mailto:bill(at)vondane.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
My wife Soloed on 11.21.01 in our 6A and hopes to have her license by the end of
March. And yes your tires wear very fast when the plane is used for instructing.
I now have retreads (flight custom II cases) and they seem to be holding up real
well. In the past week the RV has logged over 50 T&G's.
Be supportive and urge her on. She'll have lots of fun.
Gary Zilik, RV-6A 278 hrs.
Planejoel(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> The wife is starting to make funny sounds about soloing the airplane. (Oh no
> there go my tires) She would like to know if any other women out there have
> soloed in the RV
> Joe
> RV6A
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler mounting |
>
>Eustace Bowhay wrote:
> >
> > I had finished the baffles (Van's kit) so removed the left front baffle
> > and installed the cooler, installation time was six hours. Would be
> > happy to supply more detail and pictures if it is of any interest.
> >
> > Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
>
>Eustace:
> This sounds like what I was planning. Pictures would be very much
>appreciated.
>
>--
>Tom Sargent.
Tom & listers,
Photos of Eustace's oil cooler installation can be found on the SE
Florida RV Builders web site at:'
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SEFlaRVbuilders/files/Engine%20Photos%20%26%20drawings/
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ollie Washburn" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com> |
Yes,my wife has soloed our 6A and does very well thank you.She got her
license and all of her time in a Cardinal RG we owned before we got the 6A
and she had no trouble with the transition to the 6A She has about 300
hrs.tt.(However it is hard to set on the right side and just tune the
radio).
Ollie&Lorene Washburn
RV6-A,N795LW,@ 97FL
Loves Airpark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Air Conditioning an RV (was NACA ducts) |
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
> pleased that all seem to agree that tail pumping is the BIG
> problem. I have
Yes it is a problem, more of an annoyance. Another lister suggested we
make sure we have the carbon monoxide thing covered while doing these
experiments. I have one of the stick-on strips in the cockpit and is
has never changed color. But with air being pumped into the cockpit,
I'M CERTAIN that some of the exhaust fumes are making their way into the
cockpit, that is, without addressing the problem. When throttling back
I usually smell oil burning, and I know many other RVers who report the
same thing when in the pattern to land. But it doesn't happen to
everyone. On a hot day with full tanks, if fuel starts streaming out
the fuel tank vents I'll smell it, and I have no leaks in my fuel system
anywhere. Yes it could be working up through the seams on the belly,
but my guess the fumes are entering through the tail somewhere.
> about cubic inches). The tail pumps and pumps a lot of air.
> I say fix it.
> The first bulkhead in the tail that the elevator push/pull tube passes
> through(front to aft) has two big holes and one square hole.
> The bulkhead
> at the end of the top skin has a big hole (big = 6"). Seal
> these with Mylar
> or painted gauze. etc. That is three big holes plugged. As
> for the square
Been there, done that. Covering up the big holes with aluminum tape
very slightly reduced the draft, but not by much. I noticed the slider
side-skirts didn't bow out as much, but there again, not by much I
think it would be much more work to seal the pushrod holes than it would
to vent the high pressure air.
> About the inspection plate idea. I very much doubt that it will work
> because they are too far back. I used the same idea but I have a non
> standard inspection plate just ahead of the bulkhead (to seal
> up). There is
> surface drag associated with this devise but not a lot, and
> compared to the
> benefits.........
Like I've said, its been reported (to me) to work. I will try it myself
and report back. Some food for thought--I played hooky from work
yesterday and went flying with two of my RV buddies. Both of them had
engine breather tubes running the length of the fuselage to the tail,
exiting just forward of the tailwheel, but they were no longer being
used. Why? They would start seeing oil in strange spots--on the top of
the horizontal stabilizer! Go figure that one out. :)
The size of my RV-4s outlet hole (like
> round) is 1.25D"
> It worked fairly well before I started sealing up bulkheads.
> Don't forget
> to provide for air flow through the cockpit(i.e. baggage
> compartment) to the
> tail once it is sealed, booted and ported. The things that
> live back there
> need air too.
>
> Just another Gary (lost the other 'r' in the big one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ollie Washburn" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler mounting |
Some pictures of my cooler installation can be seen on Doug Reeves great
site.www.vansaircraft.net
Then click on vans airforce online community under featured items.
Then click on photos followed by click on washburn..This installation has
worked for over 500 hrs with no problems and temp is always around 180 deg.
Ollie&Lorene Washburn
RV6-A,N795LW,@ 97FL
Loves Airpark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Stiles" <av8r(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Remove from list |
Please remove this email address from your list.
I am not an RV owner.
Remove - mailto:av8r(at)home.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler mounting |
What are the advantages/pros/cons of this installation verses the aft baffle or
firewall?
-Larry
--- Charlie Kuss wrote:
>
> >
> >Eustace Bowhay wrote:
> > >
> > > I had finished the baffles (Van's kit) so removed the left front baffle
> > > and installed the cooler, installation time was six hours. Would be
> > > happy to supply more detail and pictures if it is of any interest.
> > >
> > > Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
> >
> >Eustace:
> > This sounds like what I was planning. Pictures would be very much
> >appreciated.
> >
> >--
> >Tom Sargent.
>
> Tom & listers,
> Photos of Eustace's oil cooler installation can be found on the SE
> Florida RV Builders web site at:'
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SEFlaRVbuilders/files/Engine%20Photos%20%26%20drawings/
>
> Charlie Kuss
>
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paulbaird(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dual throttle in RV6/7? |
Dave,
I talked to my buddy with the Glasair. He says that the biggest
consideration was how to connect both of the throttle cables to the fuel
injection servo arm. We are going to have a carberator, but it should work
the same way. His side throttle had a shorter throw than the throttle below
the center panel. He drilled an extra hole in the arm for his second
throttle. He put it inboard of the other one since it has a shorter throw.
He just figured out where to put the hole according to the throw. If your
two throttles have the same throw you could figure out a way to connect them
both at the same point on the carberator arm.
Good Luck,
Paul
90355
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve kennedy" <swcme(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | For sale: fuel flow |
Shadin Miniflow with Flowscan transducer
Suitable for carburated or non-fuel return systems up to 210 hp (mabey more,
check with Shadin)
bought new in 91, never installed. Does not include GPS interface.
Contact Steve Kennedy 281-482-2563, 832-656-0594, srk(at)clearsail.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | philip condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest:HELP-- THE PANEL PILOT (STEVE DAVIS)is MIA |
Steve, the engraving guy is missing...
THE PANEL PILOT (STEVE DAVIS) 901-527-5265 panelcut(at)aol.com
http://members.aol.com/panelcut PANEL AND FUEL CAP ENGRAVING Person
is missing.....I can't e-mail Steve because the AOL account has 500
un-opened
e-mails and the phone numbers on the web site are disconnected. Can't
fly my
RV with out the fuel caps.......anyone know of Steves status ?? or a
valid phone
number or e-mail or location of Steve???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hurlbut" <hurlbut_steve(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Subaru Eggenfellner |
I'm looking for testimonials of flying Eggenfellner Subaru engines.
Looking for performance numbers, fuel flow, etc, etc.
I'm building RV-7A and I'm considering this engine.
Thank you
Steve Hurlbut
RV-7A
Kingston, Ontario
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
I just registered the domain name rv4pilot.com. The hosting company has an
offer where for a couple of hundred dollars per year, they will host a site.
I have very little interest in putting up a site right now. I got it
mainly for use as an email address. As part of this agreement I would get
something like 20 email addresses with the rv4pilot.com address. I'm
writing to see what the interest would be in paying say $10 per year to have
a yourname(at)rv4pilot.com email address. If there is enough interest, I'll
do it and sign people up.
$10/yr yourname(at)rv4pilot.com
please reply off list.
Best regards,
Don Mei
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chrome Fuel caps |
> A suggestion. If you want your caps chrome, and you plan on
> having Steve engrave them, have them chromed first.
Or just polish them up on a polishing wheel. Polished AL looks great, and no
hassle with plating.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~300 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Conditioning an RV (was NACA ducts) |
Bob hints at it, but what strikes me is the variability of this tail
pumping, canopy side-skirt bulging, back-draft phenomenon. Is it
present in all -4s and -6s?--but some pilots just don't notice it? Does
anyone with an -8 really notice it? What about the design and fit of
the empennage fairing?--if it's loosely fit or not fitted under part of
the horiz. stab. (a low pressure area) can there be enough of a suction
effect from just that alone?
I must admit that I don't notice it at all. When I push 0 - neg Gs and
I vent some fuel, it's my impression that the gas runs down the belly
and the fumes come into the cabin thru the flap actuator rod holes. I
don't smell exhaust/oil when slowing in the pattern or in slow flight at
high AOA. My plane is set up so when I'm flying the cabin air is on all
the time (two 2" vents). I've had people ride with me to see where and
if my canopy skirts are bowing and they just don't. They fit tight but
not as tight as others that I've seen. Maybe down here in Florida, any
draft in the airplane is a welcome thing:)
As for oil on the top of the HS, that should be a high pressure area and
collect bugs and dirt along with whatever oil is in the area.
Bob Japundza wrote:
>
>
> > pleased that all seem to agree that tail pumping is the BIG
> > problem. I have
>
> Yes it is a problem, more of an annoyance. Another lister suggested we
> make sure we have the carbon monoxide thing covered while doing these
> experiments. I have one of the stick-on strips in the cockpit and is
> has never changed color. But with air being pumped into the cockpit,
> I'M CERTAIN that some of the exhaust fumes are making their way into the
> cockpit, that is, without addressing the problem. When throttling back
> I usually smell oil burning, and I know many other RVers who report the
> same thing when in the pattern to land. But it doesn't happen to
> everyone. On a hot day with full tanks, if fuel starts streaming out
> the fuel tank vents I'll smell it, and I have no leaks in my fuel system
> anywhere. Yes it could be working up through the seams on the belly,
> but my guess the fumes are entering through the tail somewhere.
>snip> Both of them had
> engine breather tubes running the length of the fuselage to the tail,
> exiting just forward of the tailwheel, but they were no longer being
> used. Why? They would start seeing oil in strange spots--on the top of
> the horizontal stabilizer! Go figure that one out. :)
>
> The size of my RV-4s outlet hole (like
> > round) is 1.25D"
> > It worked fairly well before I started sealing up bulkheads.
> > Don't forget
> > to provide for air flow through the cockpit(i.e. baggage
> > compartment) to the
> > tail once it is sealed, booted and ported. The things that
> > live back there
> > need air too.
> >
> > Just another Gary (lost the other 'r' in the big one.
> L
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler mounting |
In a message dated 1/9/02 7:11:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,
ebowhay(at)jetstream.net writes:
<<
I had finished the baffles (Van's kit) so removed the left front baffle
and installed the cooler, installation time was six hours. Would be
happy to supply more detail and pictures if it is of any interest >>
Please do Eustace.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator counter weights |
It's easy to balance the elevators this way because the forward-heavy
unit will counter-act the rear-heavy unit and the elevators will appear
to be balanced. However, you still have two unbalanced control surfaces
bolted together, and either one of them could be excited by a resonant
frequency and start to flutter and proceed to self-destruct.
I don't have the manuals in front of me, but I'm pretty sure that both
the -4 and -6 manuals are explicit about balancing the elevators
seperately and then as a unit. Is the -8 manual different?
I would be very leary of this piece of advice unless it could be
confirmed by some one other than Tom. No disrespect to Tom but this is
a real safety of flight issue. Did everyone see the airshow video of
the F-117 crash when in its aileron (flaperon?) went into flutter and self-destructed?
Van and his team have designed some of the best little sport planes in
the world. However, blind obedience to Van's "telephone engineers" is
not a good idea.
Boyd
SW FL
WoodardRod(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Gary,
>
> I talked with Van's a few weeks ago about balancing elevators on an -8. I
> told them that my friend had to drill out almost all the lead to get the
> right side to balance... and needed almost every bit of what was there for
> the left side. Tom told me that it's not necessary to balance the elevators
> independently. Bot them together and balance them as a unit. I'm guessing
> that if you bolt the two horns together, you probably won't have to add any
> lead.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Rod Woodard
> RV-3 empennage
>
> In a message dated 12/5/01 8:17:20 AM Mountain Standard Time, ggunn(at)qwest.net
> writes:
>
> > I need to add a few ounces of lead to my left elevator counterweights to
> > get it to trail correctly. Can anybody offer the procedure they used to
> > add to the existing counterweights.?
> >
> > Gary Gunn
> > RV-6 fuse
> >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest:HELP-- THE PANEL PILOT (STEVE DAVIS)is |
MIA
steve is alive, but very busy. i just received my gas caps about aweek ago,
with an apology for taking so long. but the gas caps came out great.
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net> |
on 1/10/02 04:16, Planejoel(at)aol.com at Planejoel(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> The wife is starting to make funny sounds about soloing the airplane. (Oh no
> there go my tires) She would like to know if any other women out there have
> soloed in the RV
> Joe
> RV6A
>
>
>
>
>
>
Get the retreads and talk to Carolyn Zilik.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Berryhill" <berryhill1911(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Subaru Eggenfellner |
If you haven't done so, check out Jan Eggenfellner's web site:
http://www.subaruaircraft.com/
I believe there is only one RV flying with his package so far (an RV9A) but
lots more are currently building them.
Jan also has a flying RV6 with a Lycoming O-360 that he is going to convert
to his Subaru package after he gets some performance numbers so he'll have a
good basis for comparison. There are a lot of Glastars already flying with
his engine package.
Dave Berryhill
>
>I'm looking for testimonials of flying Eggenfellner Subaru engines.
>Looking for performance numbers, fuel flow, etc, etc.
>
>I'm building RV-7A and I'm considering this engine.
>
>Thank you
>Steve Hurlbut
>RV-7A
>Kingston, Ontario
>
>
Dave Berryhill
BERRYHILL1911(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Subaru Eggenfellner |
Jan Eggenfellner has a Yahoo discussion group which you may find of
interest. Go here to join:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/subaruaircraft/join
There are quite a few of us on there, waiting for exactly the numbers
you're asking about. Several interesting discussions regarding
insurance, fuel system mods, etc as well.
Jeff Point
RV-6 fuselage N187CF (reserved)
Milwaukee WI
Steve Hurlbut wrote:
>
>
>I'm looking for testimonials of flying Eggenfellner Subaru engines.
>Looking for performance numbers, fuel flow, etc, etc.
>
>I'm building RV-7A and I'm considering this engine.
>
>Thank you
>Steve Hurlbut
>RV-7A
>Kingston, Ontario
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: taildragger article |
Another new Taildragger training book is "Conventional Gear - Flying a
Taildragger". You can read a detailed description at Builder's Bookstore in the
Sport Flying Skills Section, and another in this month's Sport Aviation on page
107.
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
http://buildersbooks.com
800 780-4115
>
>
> You may want to pick up a copy of "The Compleat (sic) Taildragger Pilot"
> by Harvey S. Plourde, pub. 1991 by HS Plourde, 5 Hernsdorf Ave.,
> Goffstown, NH 03045. It was used to train CAP pilots and contains
> references to some obscure aspects of taildragger flying that are very
> hard to find elsewhere.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Pflanzer" <rpflanze2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Subaru Eggenfellner |
Okay, I can't resist but I promise to be brief.
Once you consider "all" the costs like resale value and increased insurance,
the Subaru cost you more than a zero time rebuilt Lycoming from Bart.
BTW, if you go to the Subaru web site, there is a list of testimonials from
folks flying them. There is also a Subaru group on Yahoo. If you go to
groups and search on Subaru, you'll probably find it.
Randy Pflanzer
RV-6 (sold)
RV-7A (waiting on wings)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Hurlbut" <hurlbut_steve(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Subaru Eggenfellner
>
>
> I'm looking for testimonials of flying Eggenfellner Subaru engines.
> Looking for performance numbers, fuel flow, etc, etc.
>
> I'm building RV-7A and I'm considering this engine.
>
> Thank you
> Steve Hurlbut
> RV-7A
> Kingston, Ontario
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Subaru Eggenfellner |
>
>If you haven't done so, check out Jan Eggenfellner's web site:
>http://www.subaruaircraft.com/
>I believe there is only one RV flying with his package so far (an RV9A) but
>lots more are currently building them.
>
>Jan also has a flying RV6 with a Lycoming O-360 that he is going to convert
>to his Subaru package after he gets some performance numbers so he'll have
>a
>good basis for comparison. There are a lot of Glastars already flying with
>his engine package.
>
>Dave Berryhill
Jan was just here in Albuquerque, picking up Gary Seaton's RV-6A. It all
began thusly:
Early last year, I flew Gary up to Canada to prepurchase inspect/test fly
Homer Rogers RV since Gary was bitten (smitten?) with the RV bug after a
flight with me previously. Homer's plane flew great, Gary liked it, and it
was a done deal. (Also had a great time flying him up to Canada to view
it!) Anyway, it's a nicely done RV with many really slick add-ons. My
understanding is that Jan will completely install his Subaru package and
have the plane ready to serve as his RV demo aircraft at Sun n Fun, Osh,
etc. It will eventually end up back here in Albuquerque. Naturally, I'm
gonna bug Gary for a flight in it.
The current Subaru package is just the beginning folks. When Jan asked me
what the typical RV builder of today wants for power, I said, "All we can
get!" He's a man of few words, but I bet he took that to heart and will
start looking at larger powerplants. I wish him the best of luck.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
O-360 Lycosaur
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: taildragger article |
Andy,
If you have the book that Boyd recommends, The Complete Taildragger Pilot,
let us know. Perhaps several of us would buy it. We certainly would prefer
to give the business to you instead of Amazon. Thanks.
Louis
Louis I Willig
1640 Oakwood Dr.
Penn Valley, PA 19072
610 668-4964
RV-4, 185 hrs., 190 HP C/S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
This just posted today.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-10int2.htm
Jeff Point
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Subaru Eggenfellner |
Randy Pflanzer wrote:
>
>Once you consider "all" the costs like resale value and increased insurance,
>the Subaru cost you more than a zero time rebuilt Lycoming from Bart.
>
There was a recent thread on the Subaru group about insurance. AVEMCO
will insure an experimental with Eggenfellner's engine package just like
any other. Hard to get comparisons, as there is only 1 RV flying with
his engine (so far) but several Glasstar owners reported getting
insurance at reasonable (?) rates. For example, one guy had a Glasstar
with $75K hull and liability with AVEMCO, he said he paid around $1650 a
year. Doesn't sound too unreasonable to me(relatively speaking). And, I
can't imagine the risk factors are much different from a Glasstar to a
6A or similar.
Jeff Point
RV-6 fuselage N187CF (reserved)
Milwaukee WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | planewizz(at)cs.com |
Thanks to all who responded to my inquiry. I really appreciate it.
Dave P
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: THE PANEL PILOT (STEVE DAVIS) is FOTJ (found on the job) |
In a message dated 1/10/2002 10:10:17 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com writes:
> Steve Davis is alive and well. To contact him, you must use the correct 10
> digit phone number, each number
> in proper sequence. Similarly, the email address must be spelled correctly
> and must go to the correct ISP. THESE are the correct numbers, in their
correct sequence.>
>
> sdavis12(at)midsouth.rr.com
>
> (901) 526-0491
>
> Those that are quoted below are incorrect and this is probably the reason
> why they don't work.
Actually they were not incorrect, they are just old. Someday we'll all be
that way.
It would have been really nice for Steve, or any of you who knew that he had
changed his contact info, to send me an update. Then we can better connect
the consumers with the providers with a minimum of anxiety.
I hate to give people bum info. Further, I don't want the Yeller Pages to
degenerate into a host of broken links and/or obsolete area codes but,
considering the sheer number of listings, it's going to happen from time to
time. I need all of your help to ensure that this tool is and remains useful
to the RV builder community.
TIA
-GV (N1GV) Yeller Pages Custodian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
Susan Ball, Jon Johanson's manager has her own RV 6 and they do formation
demonstrations at air shows and fly-ins in Australia.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Planejoel(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Solo Wife
>
>
> The wife is starting to make funny sounds about soloing the airplane. (Oh
no
> there go my tires) She would like to know if any other women out there
have
> soloed in the RV
>
Joe
> RV6A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terrywatson3(at)attbi.com> |
Page 40 of the current (January 4th, 2002) issue of GA News has an interview
with Ed Anderson about his Mazda rotary powered RV-6A.
Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Air Conditioning an RV (was NACA ducts) |
| From: | Gary Graham <beeb(at)teleport.com> |
Addendum: I have an RV-4FB and all of the later designs have a slightly
different rear bulkhead arrangement and therefore the lightening holes are
slightly different than I described. They still need to be sealed and/or
booted. Focus on the top and bottom sections of the bulkhead at the front
of the tail deck. Sorry about the oversight. I have an RV-4 kinda mind.
Reference:
To Laird, Garry, Garry, Bob, Mike, et al.
It sure is great to see that the subject of tail pumping (and what to do
about it) is finally catching on. Since I started posting on this subject
over a year ago, it is a pleasure to jump into the pool with such an
esteemed group. I sincerely hope the splash doesn't go up your nose.
We have all heard the pros (low drag) and cons (don't work in some
locations) of NACA ducts (scoops). Probably 95% of the implementations are
to let air into the aircraft, yet most builders leave out the inverted air
foil under under the inlet lip that helps pull air into the plenum. The
horn diffuser, ramp and vortex generator aspects are usually adequately
implemented. It took several years for folks to find that the high pressure
area under the wing made them work very well, without much risk of exhaust,
etc. We didn't emphasize comfort in the old days.
However, I come her to praise the outlet not the inlet interest. I sure am
pleased that all seem to agree that tail pumping is the BIG problem. I have
recommended use of a reverse NACA in the past (in a relative low pressure
area) to aid in the conditioned air flow through the cockpit. This turning
around of the available part from Vans (as has so well been pointed out) is
not the most optimal solution to reversing the NACA concept (it was just
easy and works when properly located and is a low drag hole). A reversed
NACA design would have a low pressure generating airfoil (or wedge) on the
outside and upwind of the lateral lip (or bend the lip outward slightly).
The horn would still be divergent (getting wider, aft from the outlet). It
was suggested 11 deg. max when using straight sides. Is that 11 deg. per
side? The slope of the ramp would stay about the same. You would end up
with a low pressure outlet that blended the outlet air into to the air
stream. This hole doesn't have to be any bigger than the pressurized inlet
air hole that you designed (assuming it is pressurized). The cockpit will
pressurize and you will have plenty of good (warm and cool) air flow.
However, (and here is the splash) all this works really well if we don't
try to poke all the problems into one hole (notwithstanding, that old adage
about cubic inches). The tail pumps and pumps a lot of air. I say fix it.
The first bulkhead in the tail that the elevator push/pull tube passes
through(front to aft) has two big holes and one square hole. The bulkhead
at the end of the top skin has a big hole (big = 6"). Seal these with Mylar
or painted gauze. etc. That is three big holes plugged. As for the square
hole, install a boot made of synthetic suede or filled nylon (both very
light and flexible and non porous) about 10" long and pointed forward
(pressure keeps inflated) Heck, all you have to do is figure out how to get
in there. ATTN. new builders!!! As for control drag, where can I buy some?
About the inspection plate idea. I very much doubt that it will work
because they are too far back. I used the same idea but I have a non
standard inspection plate just ahead of the bulkhead (the one that should be
sealed). There is surface drag associated with this devise but not a lot,
and compared to the benefits......... The size of my RV-4s outlet hole
(like round) is 1.25D" It worked fairly well before I started sealing up
bulkheads. Don't forget to provide for air flow through the cockpit(i.e.
baggage compartment) to the tail once it is sealed, booted and ported. The
things that live back there need air too.
Just another Gary (lost the other 'r' in the big one).
------------------------------
To those of you who want better air flow through (hot and cold) the cockpit
with smaller systems providing you with greater comfort, you need to stop
the battle of inlet air coming from the front of the plane(your design) with
that coming from the tail (and to some extent from the wings, rear canopy
skirt, flap rod holes, etc.). The RV-4 tail PUMPS!!! and I suspect that the
other designs do also. You can mitigate this problem as many s-cans have (
or use the tail as a source of pressure air).
I learned of this issue from books and followed up with empirical methods.
After 35hrs. in the back of an RV-4, X-country, that had a single hole in
the fire wall (no hoses in cockpit) providing heat evenly to the cockpit
(front and back) I wanted to know how it worked so well. Because other RV's
didn't, including mine. Sleeping under the wing, I spotted a hole in the
belly that turned out to be one of those plastic NACA Ducts BACKWORDS. WAS
this it? I wasn't about to cut up my bird to find out. The owner had
purchased the RV-4 and had no idea why it was there. He thought it was part
of the design (no hoses to it).
Here is how I got my air conditioning GRINN: RV-4 Fastback
To stop cold air from coming in an freezing certain body parts:
1. I sewed up some boots for the aileron push tubes from light weight
synthetic leather(garment from the GoodWill).
2. Sealed the canopy to canopy rails with "P-Strip" from Van's.
Sealed the front of the canopy to the cowl boot with the silicone pressed
into plastic wrap.
Sealed the front right corner of the canopy to canopy rail with a piece of
foam wedge.
Covered the flap arms with a shaped aluminum panel (this was for safety
also).
No problem with rear skirts because I don't have them. No stick boots
either but maybe one day. The lack of stick boots does allow for air
flow under the floorboards but I'm not sure that this is an advantage.
All of this sealing got a HALF GRINN.
My source of fresh air is a 7/8" hole in the left wing root fairing, plumbed
with 1" hose to a dash mounted Wemac(sp) ball. My source of hot air is
standard through a 1.5" valve on the center of the firewall (Lancair) In
the future I will be adding some general purpose cooling air near the ruder
pedals with a valve. Right now I am bypassing the heat exchanger in the
summer.
Before I made the full grin changes, this is what happened. I would open
my air conditioning valves and would receive a blast of air that would then
diminish as the cockpit would pressurize. The fight was on between the
front air and the tail air. The front lines were at the cockpit. Without
stick boots I have plenty of openings front to back under the floor boards.
With stick boots I would have to open a 2" (min.) hole in the baggage
compartment. The RV-4 has enough of a leak around the back seat to the
baggage compartment.
You may remember that I proved the tail pumping theory by providing a 1/4"
stream of 100LL down the belly where it proceeded to spice up my day(see
"There I was at 10,000 feet" in the RV Archives). The good and the bad of
tail pumping.
Full GRINN Time:
Improving cockpit air flow:
1. Remember that I didn't want to cut a reverse NACA Duct in my RV's
belly? It so happens that I have an inspection plate forward of the first
tail bulkheads(this was to get at the bolts that hold my tail on(first
generation mod. to equal second gen. strength). I made up a second cover
plate, cut an 1 1/4" hole in it and made a fiberglass cover for the hole
that looks like a rounded over half of a jar lid. Think of it as a reverse
scoop(idea stolen from a British Auster antique that a friend wins prizes
with). The trailing edge of this device is 1/2" and the purpose is to
create a low pressure area over the hole. I haven't sewn a boot for the
elevator push tube at that first tail bulkhead yet, but I moved the battle
front back to the tail. I have so much hot air that I can't open the valve
but a crack. BIG GRINN
2. Seal the tail off with a boot and put a reverse something forward of it
on the belly or wherever. My proof of concept part is just under the
leading edge of the left horz. stab. (remember that it is also an inspection
cover).
Warm in the NW
Gary Graham
P.S.
This is the posting I submitted on 2/06/01 I can't take credit for the for
the info. posted on 3/14/01 with my name signed. ref. vents used in the
housing market (I have not tested these, but they make sense to me).
Gary
PPS. " Battle front" is a metaphor for the area in the plane where the good
air(wanted for heat or cooling) meets the bad air(flowing forward from the
high pressure tail area). The reversed NACA Duct on my friends RV-4 is 49"
forward of the last bulkhead.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
| Subject: | Static Ports- STEC Alt Hold |
List: I am installing an STEC Alt 30 Hold in my RV6-A and in their
excellent installation kit made for the RV are 2 very nicely machined
Brass static ports. The brass ports are about the same size and profile
of the "Rivet Ports" I installed in Vans Kit, only much nicer looking.
Has anyone used these when installing the Stec product in their
RV? Reading the Archives I have found many pros and cons to using
anything but Vans supplied ports as far as airspeed errors.
If Stec put them in the kit I am sure they want me to use them
with their product. Boy I can't tell you how professional their
installation kit was to work with.
Hope someone has been tere done that!
Tom in Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Static Ports- STEC Alt Hold |
Tom, I've got a full system 30 in rv-6a but I'm using the warren gretz
pitot/static probe for static. I simply tee'd into the static line
behind the dash for S-Tec's sensor and it works very well. I tried using
just static cabin pressure but I could go up and down using the eyeball
vents......
Steve DiNieri
N221rv
List: I am installing an STEC Alt 30 Hold in my RV6-A and in their
excellent installation kit made for the RV are 2 very nicely machined
Brass static ports. The brass ports are about the same size and profile
of the "Rivet Ports" I installed in Vans Kit, only much nicer looking.
Has anyone used these when installing the Stec product in their
RV? Reading the Archives I have found many pros and cons to using
anything but Vans supplied ports as far as airspeed errors.
If Stec put them in the kit I am sure they want me to use them
with their product. Boy I can't tell you how professional their
installation kit was to work with.
Hope someone has been tere done that!
Tom in Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com> |
I need to purchase a Fuel Pump for my 0-320 H2AD. A
friend gave me the part number for the pump (A/C
41270) but did not say where to buy it at.
Does anybody have any good places to buy this fuel
pump?
Dan DeNeal
rv6a
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Ports- STEC Alt Hold |
I used the static ports supplied by S-TEC for my System 30 Altitude hold
system and they work perfectly. I removed the 'pop rivets' that Van had
supplied. Incidentally, the S-TEC altitude hold is a real gem (tho' at the
price it should be. And, yes, the quality of that product takes the sting
out of the price!)
John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Lueder" <Blueder(at)SUPERIORAIRPARTS.COM> |
01/11/2002 11:22:26 AM
41270 IS THE OVERHAUL PART NUMBER FOR THE FUEL PUMP YOU NEED. THE LYCOMING
PART NUMBER IS LW15399. YOU WILL WANT TO PURCHASE THIS FROM AERO
ACCESSORIES @800-822-3200 , I'M SURE THEY'LL TAKE YOUR CREDIT CARD OR
C.O.D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
Hi folks,
My EAA Chapter is investigating investing in a set of aircraft scales to
weigh our planes. One low cost alternative to either digital electronic
aircraft or auto racing scales are the RuggleS'cales. I would like the
opinion of anyone who owns or has used these scales. You can find info on
them at:
http://www.tgsi.com/scales.html
I'm not sure that these scales would really be adequate for use on
aircraft. I would also appreciate opinions from the engineers on list.
Please reply off list if you think that your reply would not be of interest
to the group as a whole.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A
fuselage
EAA Chapter 133 treasurer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Ports- STEC Alt Hold |
>
>List: I am installing an STEC Alt 30 Hold in my RV6-A and in their
>excellent installation kit made for the RV are 2 very nicely machined
>Brass static ports. The brass ports are about the same size and profile
>of the "Rivet Ports" I installed in Vans Kit, only much nicer looking.
> Has anyone used these when installing the Stec product in their
>RV? Reading the Archives I have found many pros and cons to using
>anything but Vans supplied ports as far as airspeed errors.
> If Stec put them in the kit I am sure they want me to use them
>with their product. Boy I can't tell you how professional their
>installation kit was to work with.
> Hope someone has been tere done that!
>
> Tom in Ohio
Tom,
These static ports will likely produce a consistent result (i.e. any errors
will be repeatable). The only question is what static source errors they
will cause. Most people don't do the testing required to really know what
the static source error is, so they are happy. Some people check the
airspeed accuracy, and think that tells the whole tale, but unfortunately
they can't distinguish between airspeed errors due to static system
inaccuracy, and airspeed errors due to the indicator (I just saw one
message complaining about an ASI that had a 12 kt error in the ASI).
If you want to know what the static source error really is, you'll need to
first get the ASI calibrated. Then you do careful flight tests to
determine the difference between CAS and IAS. Remove the effect of the ASI
calibration error (instrument error), and the rest of the error is due to
the static source. Then you can calculate the altimeter error due to the
static source error. That is the really important part, especially if you
fly IFR. It is still somewhat important if you fly VFR as it affects the
way your altitude is seen by aircraft with TCAS, and the altitude clearance
between you and the IFR traffic 500 ft above or below.
If you like the STEC static ports, I recommend you install them, then do
the flight testing required to see how accurate they are. If you don't
like the answer, you can then mess around with adding simulated pop rivet
bumps to them, as some other listers have done with similiar static ports.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (engine installation & electrics)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karl Schilling" <k_schilling(at)iquest.net> |
Check out: General Electrodynamics Corp.
8000 Calender Rd.
Arlington, tx. 76001
817 572-0366
They have a whole line of scales and will sell at discount if bought thru a
business.
Karl RV-8 711KN
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss
Subject: RV-List: Aircraft Scales
Hi folks,
My EAA Chapter is investigating investing in a set of aircraft scales to
weigh our planes. One low cost alternative to either digital electronic
aircraft or auto racing scales are the RuggleS'cales. I would like the
opinion of anyone who owns or has used these scales. You can find info on
them at:
http://www.tgsi.com/scales.html
I'm not sure that these scales would really be adequate for use on
aircraft. I would also appreciate opinions from the engineers on list.
Please reply off list if you think that your reply would not be of interest
to the group as a whole.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A
fuselage
EAA Chapter 133 treasurer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> |
| Subject: | Air Conditioning an RV (was NACA ducts) |
With all this talk about sealing the rear of the airframe, why not seal the
rear baggage wall better? Did I miss something?
jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Graham
Subject: RV-List: Air Conditioning an RV (was NACA ducts)
Addendum: I have an RV-4FB and all of the later designs have a slightly
different rear bulkhead arrangement and therefore the lightening holes are
slightly different than I described. They still need to be sealed and/or
booted. Focus on the top and bottom sections of the bulkhead at the front
of the tail deck. Sorry about the oversight. I have an RV-4 kinda mind.
Reference:
To Laird, Garry, Garry, Bob, Mike, et al.
It sure is great to see that the subject of tail pumping (and what to do
about it) is finally catching on. Since I started posting on this subject
over a year ago, it is a pleasure to jump into the pool with such an
esteemed group. I sincerely hope the splash doesn't go up your nose.
We have all heard the pros (low drag) and cons (don't work in some
locations) of NACA ducts (scoops). Probably 95% of the implementations are
to let air into the aircraft, yet most builders leave out the inverted air
foil under under the inlet lip that helps pull air into the plenum. The
horn diffuser, ramp and vortex generator aspects are usually adequately
implemented. It took several years for folks to find that the high pressure
area under the wing made them work very well, without much risk of exhaust,
etc. We didn't emphasize comfort in the old days.
However, I come her to praise the outlet not the inlet interest. I sure am
pleased that all seem to agree that tail pumping is the BIG problem. I have
recommended use of a reverse NACA in the past (in a relative low pressure
area) to aid in the conditioned air flow through the cockpit. This turning
around of the available part from Vans (as has so well been pointed out) is
not the most optimal solution to reversing the NACA concept (it was just
easy and works when properly located and is a low drag hole). A reversed
NACA design would have a low pressure generating airfoil (or wedge) on the
outside and upwind of the lateral lip (or bend the lip outward slightly).
The horn would still be divergent (getting wider, aft from the outlet). It
was suggested 11 deg. max when using straight sides. Is that 11 deg. per
side? The slope of the ramp would stay about the same. You would end up
with a low pressure outlet that blended the outlet air into to the air
stream. This hole doesn't have to be any bigger than the pressurized inlet
air hole that you designed (assuming it is pressurized). The cockpit will
pressurize and you will have plenty of good (warm and cool) air flow.
However, (and here is the splash) all this works really well if we don't
try to poke all the problems into one hole (notwithstanding, that old adage
about cubic inches). The tail pumps and pumps a lot of air. I say fix it.
The first bulkhead in the tail that the elevator push/pull tube passes
through(front to aft) has two big holes and one square hole. The bulkhead
at the end of the top skin has a big hole (big = 6"). Seal these with Mylar
or painted gauze. etc. That is three big holes plugged. As for the square
hole, install a boot made of synthetic suede or filled nylon (both very
light and flexible and non porous) about 10" long and pointed forward
(pressure keeps inflated) Heck, all you have to do is figure out how to get
in there. ATTN. new builders!!! As for control drag, where can I buy some?
About the inspection plate idea. I very much doubt that it will work
because they are too far back. I used the same idea but I have a non
standard inspection plate just ahead of the bulkhead (the one that should be
sealed). There is surface drag associated with this devise but not a lot,
and compared to the benefits......... The size of my RV-4s outlet hole
(like round) is 1.25D" It worked fairly well before I started sealing up
bulkheads. Don't forget to provide for air flow through the cockpit(i.e.
baggage compartment) to the tail once it is sealed, booted and ported. The
things that live back there need air too.
Just another Gary (lost the other 'r' in the big one).
------------------------------
To those of you who want better air flow through (hot and cold) the cockpit
with smaller systems providing you with greater comfort, you need to stop
the battle of inlet air coming from the front of the plane(your design) with
that coming from the tail (and to some extent from the wings, rear canopy
skirt, flap rod holes, etc.). The RV-4 tail PUMPS!!! and I suspect that the
other designs do also. You can mitigate this problem as many s-cans have (
or use the tail as a source of pressure air).
I learned of this issue from books and followed up with empirical methods.
After 35hrs. in the back of an RV-4, X-country, that had a single hole in
the fire wall (no hoses in cockpit) providing heat evenly to the cockpit
(front and back) I wanted to know how it worked so well. Because other RV's
didn't, including mine. Sleeping under the wing, I spotted a hole in the
belly that turned out to be one of those plastic NACA Ducts BACKWORDS. WAS
this it? I wasn't about to cut up my bird to find out. The owner had
purchased the RV-4 and had no idea why it was there. He thought it was part
of the design (no hoses to it).
Here is how I got my air conditioning GRINN: RV-4 Fastback
To stop cold air from coming in an freezing certain body parts:
1. I sewed up some boots for the aileron push tubes from light weight
synthetic leather(garment from the GoodWill).
2. Sealed the canopy to canopy rails with "P-Strip" from Van's.
Sealed the front of the canopy to the cowl boot with the silicone pressed
into plastic wrap.
Sealed the front right corner of the canopy to canopy rail with a piece of
foam wedge.
Covered the flap arms with a shaped aluminum panel (this was for safety
also).
No problem with rear skirts because I don't have them. No stick boots
either but maybe one day. The lack of stick boots does allow for air
flow under the floorboards but I'm not sure that this is an advantage.
All of this sealing got a HALF GRINN.
My source of fresh air is a 7/8" hole in the left wing root fairing, plumbed
with 1" hose to a dash mounted Wemac(sp) ball. My source of hot air is
standard through a 1.5" valve on the center of the firewall (Lancair) In
the future I will be adding some general purpose cooling air near the ruder
pedals with a valve. Right now I am bypassing the heat exchanger in the
summer.
Before I made the full grin changes, this is what happened. I would open
my air conditioning valves and would receive a blast of air that would then
diminish as the cockpit would pressurize. The fight was on between the
front air and the tail air. The front lines were at the cockpit. Without
stick boots I have plenty of openings front to back under the floor boards.
With stick boots I would have to open a 2" (min.) hole in the baggage
compartment. The RV-4 has enough of a leak around the back seat to the
baggage compartment.
You may remember that I proved the tail pumping theory by providing a 1/4"
stream of 100LL down the belly where it proceeded to spice up my day(see
"There I was at 10,000 feet" in the RV Archives). The good and the bad of
tail pumping.
Full GRINN Time:
Improving cockpit air flow:
1. Remember that I didn't want to cut a reverse NACA Duct in my RV's
belly? It so happens that I have an inspection plate forward of the first
tail bulkheads(this was to get at the bolts that hold my tail on(first
generation mod. to equal second gen. strength). I made up a second cover
plate, cut an 1 1/4" hole in it and made a fiberglass cover for the hole
that looks like a rounded over half of a jar lid. Think of it as a reverse
scoop(idea stolen from a British Auster antique that a friend wins prizes
with). The trailing edge of this device is 1/2" and the purpose is to
create a low pressure area over the hole. I haven't sewn a boot for the
elevator push tube at that first tail bulkhead yet, but I moved the battle
front back to the tail. I have so much hot air that I can't open the valve
but a crack. BIG GRINN
2. Seal the tail off with a boot and put a reverse something forward of it
on the belly or wherever. My proof of concept part is just under the
leading edge of the left horz. stab. (remember that it is also an inspection
cover).
Warm in the NW
Gary Graham
P.S.
This is the posting I submitted on 2/06/01 I can't take credit for the for
the info. posted on 3/14/01 with my name signed. ref. vents used in the
housing market (I have not tested these, but they make sense to me).
Gary
PPS. " Battle front" is a metaphor for the area in the plane where the good
air(wanted for heat or cooling) meets the bad air(flowing forward from the
high pressure tail area). The reversed NACA Duct on my friends RV-4 is 49"
forward of the last bulkhead.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Scales |
There are a set of these floating around Denver and they will weight an
aircraft. For the RV size aircraft all that is needed is two multipliers and 3
scales. The multipliers are used only if the gear weight is expected to go
over the maximum weight the scale can handle. The main gear need the
multiplier and the nose or tail wheel should not. (I say should not but
RV-8A's tend to be nose heavy and could go over the 250 to 300 lb max of the
scale)
Are they easy to use? Depends on your definition of easy. Ramps need to be
built to roll the plane up onto the multiplier and then brute force rolls the
plane onto the scales. Depending on how many people you have this can be quite
a chore. Jacking does not work well here as the gear is springy and moves as
loads are removed or added and the tires tend to tip off the multiplier pads.
How would I rate the scales. On a scale of 1-10 would rate them at 5. They
will work, but.....
I weighed my 6A using Ruggles scales the first time. Did it by myself in a
couple of hours. The second weighing 18 months later I used a set of digital
scales, 3 people and 10 minutes.
Aircraft Spruce use to sell the Ruggles scales. Don't know if they still do
since I don't have a catalog handy.
Gary Zilik, RV-6A
Charlie Kuss wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
> My EAA Chapter is investigating investing in a set of aircraft scales to
> weigh our planes. One low cost alternative to either digital electronic
> aircraft or auto racing scales are the RuggleS'cales. I would like the
> opinion of anyone who owns or has used these scales. You can find info on
> them at:
> http://www.tgsi.com/scales.html
>
> I'm not sure that these scales would really be adequate for use on
> aircraft. I would also appreciate opinions from the engineers on list.
> Please reply off list if you think that your reply would not be of interest
> to the group as a whole.
> Charlie Kuss
> RV-8A
> fuselage
> EAA Chapter 133 treasurer
>
> _
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Scales |
I used the RuggleScales and was surprised at the repeatability of
measurements. I was concerned that friction at the fulcrum pivot points
would introduce large errors, but this was not the case. I also checked the
accuracy by adding and removing 20 pound salt bags to see if the scales
would track. They did.
I did note that there is a large error (of the order of an inch) in Van's
example CG with respect to the location of the nose wheel. Some builders
may have incorrectly calculated CGs as a result. That's why test flights
are important.
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP 112 hours; 283 hot landings before reversing tires
Hampshire, IL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RV-List: Aircraft Scales
>
> Hi folks,
> My EAA Chapter is investigating investing in a set of aircraft scales to
> weigh our planes. One low cost alternative to either digital electronic
> aircraft or auto racing scales are the RuggleS'cales. I would like the
> opinion of anyone who owns or has used these scales. You can find info on
> them at:
> http://www.tgsi.com/scales.html
>
> I'm not sure that these scales would really be adequate for use on
> aircraft. I would also appreciate opinions from the engineers on list.
> Please reply off list if you think that your reply would not be of
interest
> to the group as a whole.
> Charlie Kuss
> RV-8A
> fuselage
> EAA Chapter 133 treasurer
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Scales |
Aircraft Scales and CHOCKS. They go together!!
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aircraft Scales
>
> There are a set of these floating around Denver and they will weight an
> aircraft. For the RV size aircraft all that is needed is two multipliers
and 3
> scales. The multipliers are used only if the gear weight is expected to go
> over the maximum weight the scale can handle. The main gear need the
> multiplier and the nose or tail wheel should not. (I say should not but
> RV-8A's tend to be nose heavy and could go over the 250 to 300 lb max of
the
> scale)
>
> Are they easy to use? Depends on your definition of easy. Ramps need to be
> built to roll the plane up onto the multiplier and then brute force rolls
the
> plane onto the scales. Depending on how many people you have this can be
quite
> a chore. Jacking does not work well here as the gear is springy and moves
as
> loads are removed or added and the tires tend to tip off the multiplier
pads.
>
> How would I rate the scales. On a scale of 1-10 would rate them at 5.
They
> will work, but.....
>
> I weighed my 6A using Ruggles scales the first time. Did it by myself in a
> couple of hours. The second weighing 18 months later I used a set of
digital
> scales, 3 people and 10 minutes.
>
> Aircraft Spruce use to sell the Ruggles scales. Don't know if they still
do
> since I don't have a catalog handy.
>
> Gary Zilik, RV-6A
>
> Charlie Kuss wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi folks,
> > My EAA Chapter is investigating investing in a set of aircraft scales
to
> > weigh our planes. One low cost alternative to either digital electronic
> > aircraft or auto racing scales are the RuggleS'cales. I would like the
> > opinion of anyone who owns or has used these scales. You can find info
on
> > them at:
> > http://www.tgsi.com/scales.html
> >
> > I'm not sure that these scales would really be adequate for use on
> > aircraft. I would also appreciate opinions from the engineers on list.
> > Please reply off list if you think that your reply would not be of
interest
> > to the group as a whole.
> > Charlie Kuss
> > RV-8A
> > fuselage
> > EAA Chapter 133 treasurer
> >
> > _
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Electric Elevator Servo Questions |
I'm finishing up my Emp. kit (RV-8) and I'm down to the left elevator. I've
opted for the Electric trim and am presently stuck and could use some help.
1. Do I need to install the servo now while the skin is still "open" and
easy to get to or could I press on, finish the elevator, and do it later?
2. If I do install it now is it possible that the mounting brackets
(EET-602BR & BL) for the servo are marked wrong as to left and right. I see
in the archives that was a problem at one time. When I switch them around
things seem to look more like the drawings so that could be the case now as
well.
3. Any tips or advice in this area of construction would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Steve Struyk
St. Charles MO
RV-8 Emp. about done (I hope), waiting for my QB in Mar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Air Conditioning an RV (was NACA ducts)
>
> With all this talk about sealing the rear of the airframe, why not seal
the
> rear baggage wall better? Did I miss something?
>
> jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Graham
> To: RV List
> Subject: RV-List: Air Conditioning an RV (was NACA ducts)
>
>
> Addendum: I have an RV-4FB and all of the later designs have a slightly
> different rear bulkhead arrangement and therefore the lightening holes are
> slightly different than I described. They still need to be sealed and/or
> booted. Focus on the top and bottom sections of the bulkhead at the
front
> of the tail deck. Sorry about the oversight. I have an RV-4 kinda mind.
>
> Reference:
>
>
> To Laird, Garry, Garry, Bob, Mike, et al.
>
> It sure is great to see that the subject of tail pumping (and what to do
> about it) is finally catching on. Since I started posting on this subject
> over a year ago, it is a pleasure to jump into the pool with such an
> esteemed group. I sincerely hope the splash doesn't go up your nose.
>
> We have all heard the pros (low drag) and cons (don't work in some
> locations) of NACA ducts (scoops). Probably 95% of the implementations
are
> to let air into the aircraft, yet most builders leave out the inverted air
> foil under under the inlet lip that helps pull air into the plenum. The
> horn diffuser, ramp and vortex generator aspects are usually adequately
> implemented. It took several years for folks to find that the high
pressure
> area under the wing made them work very well, without much risk of
exhaust,
> etc. We didn't emphasize comfort in the old days.
>
> However, I come her to praise the outlet not the inlet interest. I sure
am
> pleased that all seem to agree that tail pumping is the BIG problem. I
have
> recommended use of a reverse NACA in the past (in a relative low pressure
> area) to aid in the conditioned air flow through the cockpit. This
turning
> around of the available part from Vans (as has so well been pointed out)
is
> not the most optimal solution to reversing the NACA concept (it was just
> easy and works when properly located and is a low drag hole). A reversed
> NACA design would have a low pressure generating airfoil (or wedge) on the
> outside and upwind of the lateral lip (or bend the lip outward slightly).
> The horn would still be divergent (getting wider, aft from the outlet).
It
> was suggested 11 deg. max when using straight sides. Is that 11 deg. per
> side? The slope of the ramp would stay about the same. You would end up
> with a low pressure outlet that blended the outlet air into to the air
> stream. This hole doesn't have to be any bigger than the pressurized
inlet
> air hole that you designed (assuming it is pressurized). The cockpit will
> pressurize and you will have plenty of good (warm and cool) air flow.
>
> However, (and here is the splash) all this works really well if we don't
> try to poke all the problems into one hole (notwithstanding, that old
adage
> about cubic inches). The tail pumps and pumps a lot of air. I say fix
it.
> The first bulkhead in the tail that the elevator push/pull tube passes
> through(front to aft) has two big holes and one square hole. The bulkhead
> at the end of the top skin has a big hole (big = 6"). Seal these with
Mylar
> or painted gauze. etc. That is three big holes plugged. As for the
square
> hole, install a boot made of synthetic suede or filled nylon (both very
> light and flexible and non porous) about 10" long and pointed forward
> (pressure keeps inflated) Heck, all you have to do is figure out how to
get
> in there. ATTN. new builders!!! As for control drag, where can I buy
some?
>
> About the inspection plate idea. I very much doubt that it will work
> because they are too far back. I used the same idea but I have a non
> standard inspection plate just ahead of the bulkhead (the one that should
be
> sealed). There is surface drag associated with this devise but not a lot,
> and compared to the benefits......... The size of my RV-4s outlet hole
> (like round) is 1.25D" It worked fairly well before I started sealing up
> bulkheads. Don't forget to provide for air flow through the cockpit(i.e.
> baggage compartment) to the tail once it is sealed, booted and ported. The
> things that live back there need air too.
>
> Just another Gary (lost the other 'r' in the big one).
>
> ------------------------------
>
> To those of you who want better air flow through (hot and cold) the
cockpit
> with smaller systems providing you with greater comfort, you need to stop
> the battle of inlet air coming from the front of the plane(your design)
with
> that coming from the tail (and to some extent from the wings, rear canopy
> skirt, flap rod holes, etc.). The RV-4 tail PUMPS!!! and I suspect that
the
> other designs do also. You can mitigate this problem as many s-cans have
(
> or use the tail as a source of pressure air).
>
> I learned of this issue from books and followed up with empirical methods.
> After 35hrs. in the back of an RV-4, X-country, that had a single hole in
> the fire wall (no hoses in cockpit) providing heat evenly to the cockpit
> (front and back) I wanted to know how it worked so well. Because other
RV's
> didn't, including mine. Sleeping under the wing, I spotted a hole in the
> belly that turned out to be one of those plastic NACA Ducts BACKWORDS.
WAS
> this it? I wasn't about to cut up my bird to find out. The owner had
> purchased the RV-4 and had no idea why it was there. He thought it was
part
> of the design (no hoses to it).
>
> Here is how I got my air conditioning GRINN: RV-4 Fastback
>
> To stop cold air from coming in an freezing certain body parts:
>
> 1. I sewed up some boots for the aileron push tubes from light weight
> synthetic leather(garment from the GoodWill).
>
> 2. Sealed the canopy to canopy rails with "P-Strip" from Van's.
>
> Sealed the front of the canopy to the cowl boot with the silicone pressed
> into plastic wrap.
>
> Sealed the front right corner of the canopy to canopy rail with a piece
of
> foam wedge.
>
> Covered the flap arms with a shaped aluminum panel (this was for safety
> also).
>
> No problem with rear skirts because I don't have them. No stick boots
> either but maybe one day. The lack of stick boots does allow for
air
> flow under the floorboards but I'm not sure that this is an advantage.
>
> All of this sealing got a HALF GRINN.
>
> My source of fresh air is a 7/8" hole in the left wing root fairing,
plumbed
> with 1" hose to a dash mounted Wemac(sp) ball. My source of hot air is
> standard through a 1.5" valve on the center of the firewall (Lancair) In
> the future I will be adding some general purpose cooling air near the
ruder
> pedals with a valve. Right now I am bypassing the heat exchanger in the
> summer.
>
> Before I made the full grin changes, this is what happened. I would open
> my air conditioning valves and would receive a blast of air that would
then
> diminish as the cockpit would pressurize. The fight was on between the
> front air and the tail air. The front lines were at the cockpit. Without
> stick boots I have plenty of openings front to back under the floor
boards.
> With stick boots I would have to open a 2" (min.) hole in the baggage
> compartment. The RV-4 has enough of a leak around the back seat to the
> baggage compartment.
>
> You may remember that I proved the tail pumping theory by providing a 1/4"
> stream of 100LL down the belly where it proceeded to spice up my day(see
> "There I was at 10,000 feet" in the RV Archives). The good and the bad of
> tail pumping.
>
> Full GRINN Time:
>
> Improving cockpit air flow:
>
> 1. Remember that I didn't want to cut a reverse NACA Duct in my RV's
> belly? It so happens that I have an inspection plate forward of the first
> tail bulkheads(this was to get at the bolts that hold my tail on(first
> generation mod. to equal second gen. strength). I made up a second cover
> plate, cut an 1 1/4" hole in it and made a fiberglass cover for the hole
> that looks like a rounded over half of a jar lid. Think of it as a
reverse
> scoop(idea stolen from a British Auster antique that a friend wins prizes
> with). The trailing edge of this device is 1/2" and the purpose is to
> create a low pressure area over the hole. I haven't sewn a boot for the
> elevator push tube at that first tail bulkhead yet, but I moved the battle
> front back to the tail. I have so much hot air that I can't open the
valve
> but a crack. BIG GRINN
>
> 2. Seal the tail off with a boot and put a reverse something forward of
it
> on the belly or wherever. My proof of concept part is just under the
> leading edge of the left horz. stab. (remember that it is also an
inspection
> cover).
>
> Warm in the NW
> Gary Graham
> P.S.
> This is the posting I submitted on 2/06/01 I can't take credit for the
for
> the info. posted on 3/14/01 with my name signed. ref. vents used in the
> housing market (I have not tested these, but they make sense to me).
> Gary
> PPS. " Battle front" is a metaphor for the area in the plane where the
good
> air(wanted for heat or cooling) meets the bad air(flowing forward from the
> high pressure tail area). The reversed NACA Duct on my friends RV-4 is
49"
> forward of the last bulkhead.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com> |
| Subject: | Electric Elevator Servo Questions |
Hi Steve,
If you haven't explored it already, you might want to examine the
alternative method of installing the servo. Specifically, you can mount it
on the fuselage rather than in the elevator. This gets you easier access to
the servo, and less weight due to less lead being needed to counterbalance
the weight of the servo in the elevator.
Gretz Aero (www.gretzaero.com) has a mounting kit just like this.
I have a 6QB, and after looking at the relative amount of effort needed to
get the servo in a completed elevator in addition to the access for
maintenance, etc. I opted to mount mine on the rear fuselage deck.
Cheers!
Brad
RV6AQB...
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Struyk [mailto:rv8striker(at)hotmail.com]
Subject: RV-List: Electric Elevator Servo Questions
I'm finishing up my Emp. kit (RV-8) and I'm down to the left elevator. I've
opted for the Electric trim and am presently stuck and could use some help.
1. Do I need to install the servo now while the skin is still "open" and
easy to get to or could I press on, finish the elevator, and do it later?
2. If I do install it now is it possible that the mounting brackets
(EET-602BR & BL) for the servo are marked wrong as to left and right. I see
in the archives that was a problem at one time. When I switch them around
things seem to look more like the drawings so that could be the case now as
well.
3. Any tips or advice in this area of construction would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Steve Struyk
St. Charles MO
RV-8 Emp. about done (I hope), waiting for my QB in Mar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Air Conditioning an RV (was NACA ducts)
>
> With all this talk about sealing the rear of the airframe, why not seal
the
> rear baggage wall better? Did I miss something?
>
> jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Graham
> To: RV List
> Subject: RV-List: Air Conditioning an RV (was NACA ducts)
>
>
> Addendum: I have an RV-4FB and all of the later designs have a slightly
> different rear bulkhead arrangement and therefore the lightening holes are
> slightly different than I described. They still need to be sealed and/or
> booted. Focus on the top and bottom sections of the bulkhead at the
front
> of the tail deck. Sorry about the oversight. I have an RV-4 kinda mind.
>
> Reference:
>
>
> To Laird, Garry, Garry, Bob, Mike, et al.
>
> It sure is great to see that the subject of tail pumping (and what to do
> about it) is finally catching on. Since I started posting on this subject
> over a year ago, it is a pleasure to jump into the pool with such an
> esteemed group. I sincerely hope the splash doesn't go up your nose.
>
> We have all heard the pros (low drag) and cons (don't work in some
> locations) of NACA ducts (scoops). Probably 95% of the implementations
are
> to let air into the aircraft, yet most builders leave out the inverted air
> foil under under the inlet lip that helps pull air into the plenum. The
> horn diffuser, ramp and vortex generator aspects are usually adequately
> implemented. It took several years for folks to find that the high
pressure
> area under the wing made them work very well, without much risk of
exhaust,
> etc. We didn't emphasize comfort in the old days.
>
> However, I come her to praise the outlet not the inlet interest. I sure
am
> pleased that all seem to agree that tail pumping is the BIG problem. I
have
> recommended use of a reverse NACA in the past (in a relative low pressure
> area) to aid in the conditioned air flow through the cockpit. This
turning
> around of the available part from Vans (as has so well been pointed out)
is
> not the most optimal solution to reversing the NACA concept (it was just
> easy and works when properly located and is a low drag hole). A reversed
> NACA design would have a low pressure generating airfoil (or wedge) on the
> outside and upwind of the lateral lip (or bend the lip outward slightly).
> The horn would still be divergent (getting wider, aft from the outlet).
It
> was suggested 11 deg. max when using straight sides. Is that 11 deg. per
> side? The slope of the ramp would stay about the same. You would end up
> with a low pressure outlet that blended the outlet air into to the air
> stream. This hole doesn't have to be any bigger than the pressurized
inlet
> air hole that you designed (assuming it is pressurized). The cockpit will
> pressurize and you will have plenty of good (warm and cool) air flow.
>
> However, (and here is the splash) all this works really well if we don't
> try to poke all the problems into one hole (notwithstanding, that old
adage
> about cubic inches). The tail pumps and pumps a lot of air. I say fix
it.
> The first bulkhead in the tail that the elevator push/pull tube passes
> through(front to aft) has two big holes and one square hole. The bulkhead
> at the end of the top skin has a big hole (big = 6"). Seal these with
Mylar
> or painted gauze. etc. That is three big holes plugged. As for the
square
> hole, install a boot made of synthetic suede or filled nylon (both very
> light and flexible and non porous) about 10" long and pointed forward
> (pressure keeps inflated) Heck, all you have to do is figure out how to
get
> in there. ATTN. new builders!!! As for control drag, where can I buy
some?
>
> About the inspection plate idea. I very much doubt that it will work
> because they are too far back. I used the same idea but I have a non
> standard inspection plate just ahead of the bulkhead (the one that should
be
> sealed). There is surface drag associated with this devise but not a lot,
> and compared to the benefits......... The size of my RV-4s outlet hole
> (like round) is 1.25D" It worked fairly well before I started sealing up
> bulkheads. Don't forget to provide for air flow through the cockpit(i.e.
> baggage compartment) to the tail once it is sealed, booted and ported. The
> things that live back there need air too.
>
> Just another Gary (lost the other 'r' in the big one).
>
> ------------------------------
>
> To those of you who want better air flow through (hot and cold) the
cockpit
> with smaller systems providing you with greater comfort, you need to stop
> the battle of inlet air coming from the front of the plane(your design)
with
> that coming from the tail (and to some extent from the wings, rear canopy
> skirt, flap rod holes, etc.). The RV-4 tail PUMPS!!! and I suspect that
the
> other designs do also. You can mitigate this problem as many s-cans have
(
> or use the tail as a source of pressure air).
>
> I learned of this issue from books and followed up with empirical methods.
> After 35hrs. in the back of an RV-4, X-country, that had a single hole in
> the fire wall (no hoses in cockpit) providing heat evenly to the cockpit
> (front and back) I wanted to know how it worked so well. Because other
RV's
> didn't, including mine. Sleeping under the wing, I spotted a hole in the
> belly that turned out to be one of those plastic NACA Ducts BACKWORDS.
WAS
> this it? I wasn't about to cut up my bird to find out. The owner had
> purchased the RV-4 and had no idea why it was there. He thought it was
part
> of the design (no hoses to it).
>
> Here is how I got my air conditioning GRINN: RV-4 Fastback
>
> To stop cold air from coming in an freezing certain body parts:
>
> 1. I sewed up some boots for the aileron push tubes from light weight
> synthetic leather(garment from the GoodWill).
>
> 2. Sealed the canopy to canopy rails with "P-Strip" from Van's.
>
> Sealed the front of the canopy to the cowl boot with the silicone pressed
> into plastic wrap.
>
> Sealed the front right corner of the canopy to canopy rail with a piece
of
> foam wedge.
>
> Covered the flap arms with a shaped aluminum panel (this was for safety
> also).
>
> No problem with rear skirts because I don't have them. No stick boots
> either but maybe one day. The lack of stick boots does allow for
air
> flow under the floorboards but I'm not sure that this is an advantage.
>
> All of this sealing got a HALF GRINN.
>
> My source of fresh air is a 7/8" hole in the left wing root fairing,
plumbed
> with 1" hose to a dash mounted Wemac(sp) ball. My source of hot air is
> standard through a 1.5" valve on the center of the firewall (Lancair) In
> the future I will be adding some general purpose cooling air near the
ruder
> pedals with a valve. Right now I am bypassing the heat exchanger in the
> summer.
>
> Before I made the full grin changes, this is what happened. I would open
> my air conditioning valves and would receive a blast of air that would
then
> diminish as the cockpit would pressurize. The fight was on between the
> front air and the tail air. The front lines were at the cockpit. Without
> stick boots I have plenty of openings front to back under the floor
boards.
> With stick boots I would have to open a 2" (min.) hole in the baggage
> compartment. The RV-4 has enough of a leak around the back seat to the
> baggage compartment.
>
> You may remember that I proved the tail pumping theory by providing a 1/4"
> stream of 100LL down the belly where it proceeded to spice up my day(see
> "There I was at 10,000 feet" in the RV Archives). The good and the bad of
> tail pumping.
>
> Full GRINN Time:
>
> Improving cockpit air flow:
>
> 1. Remember that I didn't want to cut a reverse NACA Duct in my RV's
> belly? It so happens that I have an inspection plate forward of the first
> tail bulkheads(this was to get at the bolts that hold my tail on(first
> generation mod. to equal second gen. strength). I made up a second cover
> plate, cut an 1 1/4" hole in it and made a fiberglass cover for the hole
> that looks like a rounded over half of a jar lid. Think of it as a
reverse
> scoop(idea stolen from a British Auster antique that a friend wins prizes
> with). The trailing edge of this device is 1/2" and the purpose is to
> create a low pressure area over the hole. I haven't sewn a boot for the
> elevator push tube at that first tail bulkhead yet, but I moved the battle
> front back to the tail. I have so much hot air that I can't open the
valve
> but a crack. BIG GRINN
>
> 2. Seal the tail off with a boot and put a reverse something forward of
it
> on the belly or wherever. My proof of concept part is just under the
> leading edge of the left horz. stab. (remember that it is also an
inspection
> cover).
>
> Warm in the NW
> Gary Graham
> P.S.
> This is the posting I submitted on 2/06/01 I can't take credit for the
for
> the info. posted on 3/14/01 with my name signed. ref. vents used in the
> housing market (I have not tested these, but they make sense to me).
> Gary
> PPS. " Battle front" is a metaphor for the area in the plane where the
good
> air(wanted for heat or cooling) meets the bad air(flowing forward from the
> high pressure tail area). The reversed NACA Duct on my friends RV-4 is
49"
> forward of the last bulkhead.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Canadian shipping costs/ electric trim |
mark
welcome aboard. i can't answer the questions about the taxes, but the
electric trim comes with a mac servo and indicator. if you do go electric,
order the electric kit and the manuel kit and mount the servo under the seat
and hook it up to the manual system. looks better, works great. easy to
install.
again welcome aboard.
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <jack(at)IaJobs.com> |
| Subject: | Electric Elevator Servo Questions |
Steve,
This is from memory so don't hold me to it. I was glad I did the trim kit
with the elevator open. I like to have everything done before closing. It
allowed me to fit and refit easily. You will want to make sure the
stiffener plate is riveted on and the nutplates also before closing. The
hole you must drill in the spar for the brass treaded rod that exits the
front of the servo should be drilled before closing also. My angles were ok
but did need a lot of trimming to fit through the opening. Just trim a bit
then fit, then trim again... you know how it goes. Also had to elongate the
area in the skin where the treaded rod passed through to attach to the trim
tab. It helped me visualize everything easier by actually clamping, taping
or clecoing parts together before cutting or drilling.
Good luck,
Jack
RV8, wings
DSM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Struyk
Subject: RV-List: Electric Elevator Servo Questions
I'm finishing up my Emp. kit (RV-8) and I'm down to the left elevator. I've
opted for the Electric trim and am presently stuck and could use some help.
1. Do I need to install the servo now while the skin is still "open" and
easy to get to or could I press on, finish the elevator, and do it later?
2. If I do install it now is it possible that the mounting brackets
(EET-602BR & BL) for the servo are marked wrong as to left and right. I see
in the archives that was a problem at one time. When I switch them around
things seem to look more like the drawings so that could be the case now as
well.
3. Any tips or advice in this area of construction would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Steve Struyk
St. Charles MO
RV-8 Emp. about done (I hope), waiting for my QB in Mar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Air Conditioning an RV (was NACA ducts)
>
> With all this talk about sealing the rear of the airframe, why not seal
the
> rear baggage wall better? Did I miss something?
>
> jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Graham
> To: RV List
> Subject: RV-List: Air Conditioning an RV (was NACA ducts)
>
>
> Addendum: I have an RV-4FB and all of the later designs have a slightly
> different rear bulkhead arrangement and therefore the lightening holes are
> slightly different than I described. They still need to be sealed and/or
> booted. Focus on the top and bottom sections of the bulkhead at the
front
> of the tail deck. Sorry about the oversight. I have an RV-4 kinda mind.
>
> Reference:
>
>
> To Laird, Garry, Garry, Bob, Mike, et al.
>
> It sure is great to see that the subject of tail pumping (and what to do
> about it) is finally catching on. Since I started posting on this subject
> over a year ago, it is a pleasure to jump into the pool with such an
> esteemed group. I sincerely hope the splash doesn't go up your nose.
>
> We have all heard the pros (low drag) and cons (don't work in some
> locations) of NACA ducts (scoops). Probably 95% of the implementations
are
> to let air into the aircraft, yet most builders leave out the inverted air
> foil under under the inlet lip that helps pull air into the plenum. The
> horn diffuser, ramp and vortex generator aspects are usually adequately
> implemented. It took several years for folks to find that the high
pressure
> area under the wing made them work very well, without much risk of
exhaust,
> etc. We didn't emphasize comfort in the old days.
>
> However, I come her to praise the outlet not the inlet interest. I sure
am
> pleased that all seem to agree that tail pumping is the BIG problem. I
have
> recommended use of a reverse NACA in the past (in a relative low pressure
> area) to aid in the conditioned air flow through the cockpit. This
turning
> around of the available part from Vans (as has so well been pointed out)
is
> not the most optimal solution to reversing the NACA concept (it was just
> easy and works when properly located and is a low drag hole). A reversed
> NACA design would have a low pressure generating airfoil (or wedge) on the
> outside and upwind of the lateral lip (or bend the lip outward slightly).
> The horn would still be divergent (getting wider, aft from the outlet).
It
> was suggested 11 deg. max when using straight sides. Is that 11 deg. per
> side? The slope of the ramp would stay about the same. You would end up
> with a low pressure outlet that blended the outlet air into to the air
> stream. This hole doesn't have to be any bigger than the pressurized
inlet
> air hole that you designed (assuming it is pressurized). The cockpit will
> pressurize and you will have plenty of good (warm and cool) air flow.
>
> However, (and here is the splash) all this works really well if we don't
> try to poke all the problems into one hole (notwithstanding, that old
adage
> about cubic inches). The tail pumps and pumps a lot of air. I say fix
it.
> The first bulkhead in the tail that the elevator push/pull tube passes
> through(front to aft) has two big holes and one square hole. The bulkhead
> at the end of the top skin has a big hole (big = 6"). Seal these with
Mylar
> or painted gauze. etc. That is three big holes plugged. As for the
square
> hole, install a boot made of synthetic suede or filled nylon (both very
> light and flexible and non porous) about 10" long and pointed forward
> (pressure keeps inflated) Heck, all you have to do is figure out how to
get
> in there. ATTN. new builders!!! As for control drag, where can I buy
some?
>
> About the inspection plate idea. I very much doubt that it will work
> because they are too far back. I used the same idea but I have a non
> standard inspection plate just ahead of the bulkhead (the one that should
be
> sealed). There is surface drag associated with this devise but not a lot,
> and compared to the benefits......... The size of my RV-4s outlet hole
> (like round) is 1.25D" It worked fairly well before I started sealing up
> bulkheads. Don't forget to provide for air flow through the cockpit(i.e.
> baggage compartment) to the tail once it is sealed, booted and ported. The
> things that live back there need air too.
>
> Just another Gary (lost the other 'r' in the big one).
>
> ------------------------------
>
> To those of you who want better air flow through (hot and cold) the
cockpit
> with smaller systems providing you with greater comfort, you need to stop
> the battle of inlet air coming from the front of the plane(your design)
with
> that coming from the tail (and to some extent from the wings, rear canopy
> skirt, flap rod holes, etc.). The RV-4 tail PUMPS!!! and I suspect that
the
> other designs do also. You can mitigate this problem as many s-cans have
(
> or use the tail as a source of pressure air).
>
> I learned of this issue from books and followed up with empirical methods.
> After 35hrs. in the back of an RV-4, X-country, that had a single hole in
> the fire wall (no hoses in cockpit) providing heat evenly to the cockpit
> (front and back) I wanted to know how it worked so well. Because other
RV's
> didn't, including mine. Sleeping under the wing, I spotted a hole in the
> belly that turned out to be one of those plastic NACA Ducts BACKWORDS.
WAS
> this it? I wasn't about to cut up my bird to find out. The owner had
> purchased the RV-4 and had no idea why it was there. He thought it was
part
> of the design (no hoses to it).
>
> Here is how I got my air conditioning GRINN: RV-4 Fastback
>
> To stop cold air from coming in an freezing certain body parts:
>
> 1. I sewed up some boots for the aileron push tubes from light weight
> synthetic leather(garment from the GoodWill).
>
> 2. Sealed the canopy to canopy rails with "P-Strip" from Van's.
>
> Sealed the front of the canopy to the cowl boot with the silicone pressed
> into plastic wrap.
>
> Sealed the front right corner of the canopy to canopy rail with a piece
of
> foam wedge.
>
> Covered the flap arms with a shaped aluminum panel (this was for safety
> also).
>
> No problem with rear skirts because I don't have them. No stick boots
> either but maybe one day. The lack of stick boots does allow for
air
> flow under the floorboards but I'm not sure that this is an advantage.
>
> All of this sealing got a HALF GRINN.
>
> My source of fresh air is a 7/8" hole in the left wing root fairing,
plumbed
> with 1" hose to a dash mounted Wemac(sp) ball. My source of hot air is
> standard through a 1.5" valve on the center of the firewall (Lancair) In
> the future I will be adding some general purpose cooling air near the
ruder
> pedals with a valve. Right now I am bypassing the heat exchanger in the
> summer.
>
> Before I made the full grin changes, this is what happened. I would open
> my air conditioning valves and would receive a blast of air that would
then
> diminish as the cockpit would pressurize. The fight was on between the
> front air and the tail air. The front lines were at the cockpit. Without
> stick boots I have plenty of openings front to back under the floor
boards.
> With stick boots I would have to open a 2" (min.) hole in the baggage
> compartment. The RV-4 has enough of a leak around the back seat to the
> baggage compartment.
>
> You may remember that I proved the tail pumping theory by providing a 1/4"
> stream of 100LL down the belly where it proceeded to spice up my day(see
> "There I was at 10,000 feet" in the RV Archives). The good and the bad of
> tail pumping.
>
> Full GRINN Time:
>
> Improving cockpit air flow:
>
> 1. Remember that I didn't want to cut a reverse NACA Duct in my RV's
> belly? It so happens that I have an inspection plate forward of the first
> tail bulkheads(this was to get at the bolts that hold my tail on(first
> generation mod. to equal second gen. strength). I made up a second cover
> plate, cut an 1 1/4" hole in it and made a fiberglass cover for the hole
> that looks like a rounded over half of a jar lid. Think of it as a
reverse
> scoop(idea stolen from a British Auster antique that a friend wins prizes
> with). The trailing edge of this device is 1/2" and the purpose is to
> create a low pressure area over the hole. I haven't sewn a boot for the
> elevator push tube at that first tail bulkhead yet, but I moved the battle
> front back to the tail. I have so much hot air that I can't open the
valve
> but a crack. BIG GRINN
>
> 2. Seal the tail off with a boot and put a reverse something forward of
it
> on the belly or wherever. My proof of concept part is just under the
> leading edge of the left horz. stab. (remember that it is also an
inspection
> cover).
>
> Warm in the NW
> Gary Graham
> P.S.
> This is the posting I submitted on 2/06/01 I can't take credit for the
for
> the info. posted on 3/14/01 with my name signed. ref. vents used in the
> housing market (I have not tested these, but they make sense to me).
> Gary
> PPS. " Battle front" is a metaphor for the area in the plane where the
good
> air(wanted for heat or cooling) meets the bad air(flowing forward from the
> high pressure tail area). The reversed NACA Duct on my friends RV-4 is
49"
> forward of the last bulkhead.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <enewton57(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | RPM vs. Fuel burn |
I have a quick question for you engine gurus. I am just getting started on the
testing of fuel usage performance testing for various rpm settings. I have a
160 H.P. Lycoming with a wood fixed pitch prop. I have no manifold pressure
gauge so can't really figure percent of power and all that stuff. What I really
want to know is this:
For a given constant RPM, will the gallons per hour remain the same for all altitudes.
Today, I flew at a density altitude of 5,000 feet and kept a contstant
RPM of 2400 with the mixture leaned for max RPM. My true airspeed was 150 knots
and fuel burn was 8 gallons per hour. If I fly at 9,000 feet and maintain
2400 RPM will the fuel flow stay 8 gallons per hour?
Is there another way to figure percent of horsepower without a manifold pressure
gauge. Checked the archives and no answers there without reference to manifold
pressure gauges.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
RV-6A - N57ME (flying)
www.ericsrv6a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RPM vs. Fuel burn |
| From: | Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>
>
>For a given constant RPM, will the gallons per hour remain the same for
>all altitudes.
No.
The fuel burn will vary greatly, decreasing with higher altitude. I have
a fixed pitch prop and my fuel burn at 17,500 at 2,650 RPM is around 6
gph. It is much higher down low at that RPM.
I think the easiest way to determine power percentage without a manifold
pressure gauge would be to go by fuel burn.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Perry" <eperry(at)san.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator B Leads |
What are you guys using for circuit protection for your alternator B
leads and what size wire?
Ed Perry
eperry(at)san.rr.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andy <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RPM vs. Fuel burn |
> >For a given constant RPM, will the gallons per hour remain the same for
> >all altitudes.
Fuel burn is a function of power being produced. As you climb higher, your
power output is reduced and so is burn rate, assuming you maintain mixture
at peak efficiency.
I also believe, (without studying the charts) that at peak efficiency, it
takes x amount of fuel to produce x amount of power, regardless even of
engine type. Slight variations perhaps for the basic efficiency of any
particular engine, but with similar engine designs, close enough. In other
words, an 0-320 throttled up to produce 150hp, burns about the same amount of
fuel as an 0-360 throttled back to 150 hp.
Is this not approximately correct?
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jaye and Scott Jackson <jayeandscott(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RPM vs. Fuel burn |
That is correct. While building the tail many centuries ago, one of the
RVator magazines had a feature whereby, with a fixed pitch propellor, the
manifold pressure in inches could be added to the rpm in hundreds and the
resulting sum could be converted into percent of power using a simple table
provided in the article.
Based on that, I installed a manifold pressure gauge.
Aircraft gasoline engines have a specific fuel consumption (SFC) of
approximately .435 lb fuel/hp/hr. For example, a 180hp engine running at 75%
power would be producing (180 x .75) 135 hp. At the SFC of .435, that would
burn (135x.435) 58.7 pounds per hour. If you wanted to convert it to
USgallons, 58.7 divided by 6 lb?gal= 9.8 USG/hr.
I plan to placard my panel with the three sums that represent 75, 65, and
55% power along with the burn in lbs or gallons. That should save the cost
of a flowmeter.....
Scott in VAncouver
-6 finishing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RPM vs. Fuel burn
>
> > >For a given constant RPM, will the gallons per hour remain the same for
> > >all altitudes.
>
> Fuel burn is a function of power being produced. As you climb higher,
your
> power output is reduced and so is burn rate, assuming you maintain
mixture
> at peak efficiency.
>
> I also believe, (without studying the charts) that at peak efficiency, it
> takes x amount of fuel to produce x amount of power, regardless even of
> engine type. Slight variations perhaps for the basic efficiency of any
> particular engine, but with similar engine designs, close enough. In
other
> words, an 0-320 throttled up to produce 150hp, burns about the same amount
of
> fuel as an 0-360 throttled back to 150 hp.
>
> Is this not approximately correct?
>
> Andy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer(at)mb.sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Canadian shipping costs/ electric trim |
> Regardless of how you get it into Canada, you'll be
> my understanding, on the rest of the kit.
True. Hooray for the North American Free Trade Agreement. In exchange for
the removal of whatever small duties there might have been in the past, we
imports before free trade) and 55% for the CDN-US dollar exchange (so far).
I'd gladly turn back the clock ten years and pay the old duty at the old
exchange rate.
Oh yeah, in 1990 an O-320 from Van's was around $11,000 according to the guy
who built our first local RV-6.
Curt
Trying to scrounge up enough devalued dollars to overhaul my engine so I can
get in the air!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
Listers,
I recently installed the Airflow Performance purge valve on my 0360 and
without thinking about it, ran the return line to the vent line on the
right tank. AFP seems to ok this kind of installation and several folks
on the list have done it this way so I didn't think any farther than
that. Well, I should have thought it through a little more cause it
leaked fuel on the ramp every time I used it, whether purging or
shutting down even with the right tank selected (haven't figured that
one out yet). When you use it, it fills the vent line up with fuel since
the outboard end of the line is higher than the fuselage end. If the
left tank is selected, it pressurizes the right tank then when the
pressure stops, it blows the fuel in the vent line out on the ground. In
theory, if the right tank is selected there shouldn't be any problem
since you're returning fuel from the same tank that it's being drawn
from but it still leaks from the vent - not as much but it leaks.
The problem of course is that when you're pumping fuel into the vent
line you no longer have a vent line and there's no place for the air to
go.
The problem was easily solved by moving the purge valve return line,
from the vent, to the supply line from the right tank. Now I can pump
into that tank all I want and if it's not full it doesn't matter which
tank is selected. This btw was the easiest way to do it, I had to stand
on my head for a half hour to tap into the vent line but installing the
tee in the main supply line at the valve was a right side up job.
By the way it was worth the effort and expense - it works great.
Dave -6 So Cal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trumpfheller(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Servo Questions |
Steve,
On my plans (drawing 5PP) the bracket is shown as EET-602B (L) but should be
indicated as EET-602B (R).
<< 2. If I do install it now is it possible that the mounting brackets
(EET-602BR & BL) for the servo are marked wrong as to left and right. I see
in the archives that was a problem at one time. When I switch them around
things seem to look more like the drawings so that could be the case now as
well. >>
Bob Trumpfheller
Western Colorado
RV7A
N67BT (reserved)
Empennage almost done (then long wait for delivery of QB wings & fuselage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dave ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
Wondered if anyone is using the Anywhere Map/Ipaq and if they have found
a good way to mount the display in an RV, more specifically an RV6?
Dave Ford
RV6 fuel system
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Berryhill" <berryhill1911(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mount for Ipaq |
Gary Newsted has some info on his website:
http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/Builders_Journal.htm
Go to the "wiring" page and he has plans for an improved mount with a built
in connector.
Dave Berryhill
>
>Wondered if anyone is using the Anywhere Map/Ipaq and if they have found
>a good way to mount the display in an RV, more specifically an RV6?
>
>Dave Ford
>RV6 fuel system
>
>
Dave Berryhill
BERRYHILL1911(at)HOTMAIL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Mcmahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | PPG Paint School |
To those that were interested in the PPG Paint schools
You may call Joyce at the Training H Q at 1-800-970-2283
or you may go to www.ppgrefinish.com and go to collision
repair products and services,then training,class schedules..
It will show all the cities,cost ,etc.....................
The class that I took is called'' Deltron Certification 21'' it is the
so called basic school you must have before you can take their
custom car class and other 2 and 3 day class on flames,
Air brush,Graphics, etc.........If in need of more information
feel free to call me if I can help................
John McMahon
Gallatin,Tn
615-452-8742 (Canopy oh my Canopy)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> |
Dave,
This is good advice, since there is a belief out there that running the
purge line to the vent is ok. I recently hooked mine up, and AFP also told
me that going to the vent line would be ok... however, they did say it would
be "better" to run it into the feed line.
I did what you did, and ran the purge valve back to the right inflow-line.
My reason to post is that this posed a difficult plumbing problem, since I
couldn't locate a "t" that had a number 6 AN fitting on two sides and a
number 4 AN on the third side. I'm sure there is one, but I couldn't find
one anywhere.
My solution was to use what's called an "inline fuel pressure adapter". It
is a race-car part, and it works perfectly for this application. Here is a
link to this dude (second one down the page): Note that you have to buy the
AN 4 fitting that screws into this separately.
http://www.martelbros.com/cgi-bin/store/ws400CS.cgi?store=AQP&category=aeroq
uip/13.htm&cart_id=1020111104805321&page=aeroquip/aeroquip.htm
jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Bristol
Subject: RV-List: AFP Purge valve
Listers,
I recently installed the Airflow Performance purge valve on my 0360 and
without thinking about it, ran the return line to the vent line on the
right tank. AFP seems to ok this kind of installation and several folks
on the list have done it this way so I didn't think any farther than
that. Well, I should have thought it through a little more cause it
leaked fuel on the ramp every time I used it, whether purging or
shutting down even with the right tank selected (haven't figured that
one out yet). When you use it, it fills the vent line up with fuel since
the outboard end of the line is higher than the fuselage end. If the
left tank is selected, it pressurizes the right tank then when the
pressure stops, it blows the fuel in the vent line out on the ground. In
theory, if the right tank is selected there shouldn't be any problem
since you're returning fuel from the same tank that it's being drawn
from but it still leaks from the vent - not as much but it leaks.
The problem of course is that when you're pumping fuel into the vent
line you no longer have a vent line and there's no place for the air to
go.
The problem was easily solved by moving the purge valve return line,
from the vent, to the supply line from the right tank. Now I can pump
into that tank all I want and if it's not full it doesn't matter which
tank is selected. This btw was the easiest way to do it, I had to stand
on my head for a half hour to tap into the vent line but installing the
tee in the main supply line at the valve was a right side up job.
By the way it was worth the effort and expense - it works great.
Dave -6 So Cal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "F. Parker Thomas" <me(at)parkerthomas.com> |
| Subject: | rudder, wires and screws |
To all the listers -
A few questions for you guys:
Where should the AN3-5 bolts go in the rudder horn? Can't find a location
in the plans. Also, it seems to me that these bolts should be loose enough
to allow the end of the rudder cable to pivot as the rudder swings. Should
I just leave the bolts a little loose?
What screws/bolts should be used for mounting instruments? I've been
working on my panel with a flycutter and just chanced to meet someone with a
milling machine so I should be done (with the mounting) in the next few
days. Can't wait.
What kind of wire has been used for the electric elevator trim? 22? I've
seen some 3 pair wire at Home Depot that would be really easy to run back to
the tail. Of course, it is probably PVC insulated. Are there any 3 pair
wires for aircraft?
Any local sources in San Francisco for Tefzel wire, grommets, Adel clamps
and AN fuel fittings?
Anyone know where to find the flexible ground strap to ground the engine to
the firewall?
Thanks!
Parker
F. Parker Thomas
PO Box 190894
San Francisco, CA 94119
me(at)parkerthomas.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "F. Parker Thomas" <me(at)parkerthomas.com> |
| Subject: | instrument cut out |
Does anyone have an instrument cut out template for locating the screw holes
that I could borrow? I'd be happy to pay shipping both ways. Need it for a
week or two starting in a few days. Looking for both the 3 and 2 inch
sizes.
Thanks,
Parker
F. Parker Thomas
PO Box 190894
San Francisco, CA 94119
me(at)parkerthomas.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rudder, wires and screws |
parker
call RC ALLEN formally Mac. they have rolls of wire that will match the
output colors of the servo. and its is tefzel jacket. a total of 5 wires. you
will need to run them from your servos to your indicators. also good for
control grip wirng.
good luck
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lothar klingmuller" <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AFP Purge valve |
Excellent write up!
For newcomer you may want to define 'B nut' and 'PV outlet"'
-----Original Message-----
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: Saturday, January 12, 2002 5:24 AM
Subject: RV-List: AFP Purge valve
>
>Dave,
> Some time ago I wrote about this very subject. I had run
>the purge line back to the right tank side of the fuel selector.
>Draw from the left and purge to the right... Worked great for 550 hours.
>One day on a trip the engine lost power and fuel pressure on the right
>tank. It would run on the right tank with the HP boost pump on however.
>Flew home on the left tank with no problem.
> I spent a month of time and and alot money trying to figure this out.
>I removed the right tank and opened it up for inspection and found nothing.
>I checked the vents and fuel lines with pressure, replaced the engine fuel
>pump twice, sent all the AFP stuff to them for bench flow testing ect.
>Another interesting test flight proved the problem was still there. I know
>why we use a electric boost pump now!
>I went thru more troubleshooting using clear hose fwd of the fire wall and
>found large quantity of air being drawn into the inlet side of the engine
>pump.
>Where was it coming from? I painfully replaced all fuel tubing from the
right
>tank to the fuel selector. Test run showed it ran fine on the ground but a
>test
>flight proved the problem was still there. The only thing I found was a
slight
>fuel stain on a B nut at the PV outlet. I made up a new hard line to the
>baffel
>and it was fine. Flew it many hours with no problem. I now have the outlet
>of the PV capped off until I can figure out why this all happened in the
first
>place. If the PV outlet is run to any point other than where it is vented
into
>a fuel tank where it is always under fuel, this problem can occur. By
purging
>into the suction side of a tank you leave alot of fuel line above fuel
level
>to
>be subject to drawing air.
> This is only my experience and you can do what you want with this
>information.
>I can tell you that 18 test flights where the engine quits after the boost
>pump is
>turned off is no fun at all. Use THE BOOST PUMP FOR TO. and Landing!
>Stewart RV4 CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Streit <wooody98(at)bellsouth.net> |
John Mcmahon wrote:
>
> Vincent
> What you may want to consider is 2 day paint school put on
> by PPG..They have schools in various parts of the states.
> The reason that I went ??Well I have been working on this
> RV 6 on and off for 10 years now ,and I have come this
> far ,and invested more that I care to admit to so I think
> I can stand to spend $190.00 for 2 days in paint school
> and learn how to shoot just about every paint gun ever made
> (and do it wrong ) They have a first rate school ..For me I guess
> it will help on the learning curve for this old man.they will show you
> many things ,but mostly how to set up a paint gun ,how to READ
> INSTRUCTIONS.I painted about 25 fenders with every gun they
> had..If some one is interested I will try to get get them the info..
> Contact me off the list
> Thanks
> John McMahon
> Gallatin,Tn
> (canopy)
>
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rudder, wires and screws |
In a message dated 1/12/02 12:20:29 AM Mountain Standard Time,
me(at)parkerthomas.com writes:
> What screws/bolts should be used for mounting instruments? I've been
> working on my panel with a flycutter and just chanced to meet someone with a
> milling machine so I should be done (with the mounting) in the next few
> days. Can't wait.
>
A buddy of mine used allen-head screws in his instrument panel. They give a
clean look and far less chance of slipping off and damaging paint as compared
to the standard phillips.
Rod Woodard
Ft. Collins, CO
RV-3 in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alum Eyeball Vents 1 @1/4 '' |
Thanks for the info.
maybe a stupid question...but...what's the difference between the 3.
I guess the panel mount is the one closest to the ones i commonly see
mounted in the instrument panel and the fixed one does not swivel and
cannot be pointed once installed ??
Gert
Robert Dorsey wrote:
>
>
> >From the accessories catalog
> Adjustable:
> Screw Mount.........2230-1......$47.00
> Panel Mount.........2133.........$45.00
>
> Fixed.....................9-22010....$40.00
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | rudder, wires and screws |
>Where should the AN3-5 bolts go in the rudder horn? Can't find a
location
>in the plans. Also, it seems to me that these bolts should be loose
enough
>to allow the end of the rudder cable to pivot as the rudder swings.
Should
>I just leave the bolts a little loose?
Locate the cable far out enough to leave room for the rudder stops to
hit and also give more leverage on the rudder. Don't tighten the cable
so much as to crush the fork end. There was enough room to fit a couple
nylon washers just to keep from rubbing paint. I also installed a couple
light springs on the rudder pedals to keep light tension on the ruder
cable.
>What screws/bolts should be used for mounting instruments? I've been
>working on my panel with a flycutter and just chanced to meet someone
with
>a
>milling machine so I should be done (with the mounting) in the next few
>days. Can't wait.
The instrument screws I got were brass and painted black from one of the
bigger hardware guys at osh.. I don't see why you couldn't use stainless
(non ferrous)tho.
>What kind of wire has been used for the electric elevator trim? 22?
I've
>seen some 3 pair wire at Home Depot that would be really easy to run
back
>to
>the tail. Of course, it is probably PVC insulated. Are there any 3
pair
>wires for aircraft?
If you install the trim indicator, you'll need (I think its 6 conductor)
wire. Vans and the MAC (old name) guys sell the tefzel, shielded,
>Any local sources in San Francisco for Tefzel wire, grommets, Adel
clamps
>and AN fuel fittings?
Find a large hydraulics shop around town and I bet they carry aeroquip
product. The blue aluminum anodized an fittings sold as the racing
fittings are the same as what you'd get from spruce..
>Anyone know where to find the flexible ground strap to ground the
engine to
>the firewall?
>
Auto parts stores sell the braided straps with ends on them in different
lengths. I think the mid 80's gm pickups used em quite often.. They
weren't stainless but don't rust. must be zinc coated or something.
Steve
capsteve(at)adelphia.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: instrument cut out |
In a message dated 1/12/2002 12:02:54 AM Pacific Standard Time,
me(at)parkerthomas.com writes:
> Does anyone have an instrument cut out template for locating the screw holes
> that I could borrow? I'd be happy to pay shipping both ways. Need it for
> a
> week or two starting in a few days. Looking for both the 3 and 2 inch
> sizes.
Parker-
I've got one at Livermore.
-GV (N1GV)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator B Leads |
In a message dated 1/11/2002 4:16:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,
eperry(at)san.rr.com writes:
> What are you guys using for circuit protection for your alternator B
> leads and what size wire?
70A circuit breaker from E-T-A and 8 AWG.
-GV (N1GV)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rudder, wires and screws |
In a message dated 1/12/2002 6:15:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,
ABAYMAN(at)aol.com writes:
> Call RC ALLEN formally Mac. They have rolls of wire that will match the
> output colors of the servo and it is Tefzel jacket.
Actually that's Ray Allen Company (formerly Menzimer Aircraft Company or
MAC). RC Allen makes gyros. The companies are unrelated.
The jacket on my 5 conductor wire 26 AWG from MAC was PVC, unless they've
changed the recipe, but it is supple and works fine.
-GV (N1GV)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | rudder, wires and screws |
FYI, NOT RC allen (Gyro Maker), but the "Ray Allen Company". :) No big
deal. Website is:
http://www.rayallencompany.com
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6, Minneapolis.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: rudder, wires and screws
parker
call RC ALLEN formally Mac. they have rolls of wire that will match the
output colors of the servo. and its is tefzel jacket. a total of 5 wires.
you
will need to run them from your servos to your indicators. also good for
control grip wirng.
good luck
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder, wires and screws |
> A buddy of mine used allen-head screws in his instrument panel.
> They give a clean look and far less chance of slipping off and
> damaging paint as compared to the standard phillips.
Are they brass? Standard instrument screws are brass so they won't
contribute to compass error.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~300 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Static Ports- STEC Alt Hold |
| From: | "John Allen" <fliier(at)onebox.com> |
I also installed an S-TEC system 50 with Altitude Hold on my airplane.
I am using Van's static ports. Since that system uses a pressure transducer
dependent upon altitude changes vs. absolute pressure, I don't think
the type of static ports matter. . . .
HOWEVER
You may want to run a separate static line for the pressure transducer.
This was suggested to me by the engineer at S-TEC.
I have been having a problem with porpoising in altitude hold.
When I am flying by myself it works beautifully. As soon as I start
loading the airplane and the CG moves aft it begins "hunting" My airplane
with an O-320 and fixed pitch tends to gravitate toward an aft CG anyway.
As the CG moves further aft control pressures in the pitch axis ease
and the autopilot tends to overcontrol. This is a common occurance with
autopilots, and I am told that they are certified within a specific CG
range.
To remedy this situation the engineer at S-TEC first suggested I run
a separate static line for the pressure transducer. Also, he gave me
some board layout schematics and suggested I change values on a couple
of resistors.
Whether or not you run a separate static line, I would recommend you
place the pressure transducer near the static ports in the back. The
reason is that if you decide later you want a separate static line you
will not have to run wires or tubing through the cockpit. You will just
have to plug one line and hook up another right there aft of the baggage
bulkhead.
BTW. I agree with you, the S-TEC installation kit for the 6 was a work
of art.
--
John Allen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrjb(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: instrument cut out |
Parker,
A single tool does both sizes. Avery has one that is very inexpensive, check
their catalog.
Bernie.
Need it for a
> week or two starting in a few days. Looking for both the 3 and 2 inch
> sizes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Parker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrjb(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RPM vs. Fuel burn (flowmeters) |
Scott,
Agree with your note except maybe the last statement about the flow meter.
The BSFC number equal to .435 depends also on your leaning to correct value.
I really enjoy my flow meter . When I am at 65% (mp+rpm in hundreds= 45), I
can get fuel flow to vary by at least .5 gph and not be able to detect it in
rpm or roughness of the engine. Maybe you can do just as well without the
flowmeter, but it is satisfying to me.
Bernie Kerr, 6A, SE Fla, 250+hours of grin time
++++++++++++++++++++++++
> I plan to placard my panel with the three sums that represent 75, 65, and
> 55% power along with the burn in lbs or gallons. That should save the cost
> of a flowmeter.....
> Scott in VAncouver
> -6 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AFP Purge valve |
I now have the outlet
> of the PV capped off until I can figure out why this all happened in the
first
> place. If the PV outlet is run to any point other than where it is vented
into
> a fuel tank where it is always under fuel, this problem can occur. By
purging
> into the suction side of a tank you leave alot of fuel line above fuel
level
> to
> be subject to drawing air.
Stewart, thanks for the great write up. If I understand correctly, when you
were pulling fuel from the right tank, air was leaking in to the fitting on
the AFP purge valve, corrupting the supply side. Or, was it leaking in
through the purge valve itself? A better design might be to run the purge
into a separate line into the right tank, instead of into the supply line
between the tank and the selector valve. I'll note that you followed
Airflow Performance's instructions exactly, as did I. One possible failure
mode could be eliminated with the direct into the tank design.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A N66AP flying 80 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Powder Coating in Denver |
Actually Doug I think I may have 3 extra cans lying around. I will check if
you are interested?
Len Leggette RV-8A
N901LL (res)
Greensboro, N.C.
Hanger # 23 at INT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AFP Purge valve |
Alex,
Yes I believe air was being introduced from the line it self.
AFP gave the valve a clean bill of health when I sent it back.
Running the line to the tank is the best way to do it from
my experience.
Stewart RV4 CO>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AFP Purge valve |
OK, a Bnut is the fastening device for an AN flare fitting.
PV is a purge valve for cycling cool fuel thru an injection
system for hot starts.
Stewart RV4 CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "william p shaffer" <swilliam70(at)qwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: instrument cut out |
the templates are in aircraft spruce cat
----- Original Message -----
From: <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: instrument cut out
>
> In a message dated 1/12/2002 12:02:54 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> me(at)parkerthomas.com writes:
>
>
> > Does anyone have an instrument cut out template for locating the screw
holes
> > that I could borrow? I'd be happy to pay shipping both ways. Need it
for
> > a
> > week or two starting in a few days. Looking for both the 3 and 2 inch
> > sizes.
>
> Parker-
>
> I've got one at Livermore.
>
> -GV (N1GV)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary & Carolyn Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator B Leads |
1981 honda 55 amp main fuse. This is a nice singe fuse box that bolts nicely
to the firewall. 8 awg wire. 35 amp nippondesnso alt.
Gary
Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 1/11/2002 4:16:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> eperry(at)san.rr.com writes:
>
> > What are you guys using for circuit protection for your alternator B
> > leads and what size wire?
>
> 70A circuit breaker from E-T-A and 8 AWG.
>
> -GV (N1GV)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Peas Please (Story) |
>
> Thanks for the story, Larry,
> It adds fuel to my dreams *smile*
> Randy Simpson
>
And thank you for the kind words Randy. Today there were two RV-8's, two
RV-4's, three RV-6A's and my 6 and a real good group of people.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder, wires and screws |
The only place that brass is really necessary in for the compass - the rest
of the instruments can be held in by almost anything you want.
Dave
Randall Henderson wrote:
>
> > A buddy of mine used allen-head screws in his instrument panel.
> > They give a clean look and far less chance of slipping off and
> > damaging paint as compared to the standard phillips.
>
> Are they brass? Standard instrument screws are brass so they won't
> contribute to compass error.
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~300 hrs)
> Portland, OR
> www.vanshomewing.org
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: AFP Purge valve |
B nuts are Blue and signify 37 degree flares. There are also 31? degree
fittings which are gray and I have heard them called AC flares. They are
surplus from the WW2. Have a bunch on my 48 Bellanca.
----- Original Message -----
From: <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: AFP Purge valve
OK, a Bnut is the fastening device for an AN flare fitting.
PV is a purge valve for cycling cool fuel thru an injection
system for hot starts.
Stewart RV4 CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rudder, wires and screws |
>
> To all the listers -
>
> A few questions for you guys:
> Where should the AN3-5 bolts go in the rudder horn? Can't find a location
> in the plans. Also, it seems to me that these bolts should be
> loose enough
> to allow the end of the rudder cable to pivot as the rudder
> swings. Should
> I just leave the bolts a little loose?
Just helped a friend on this today... The call out is 5/16 from the edge of
the horn. We had to dig out the tail kit drawings to find it. It's on the
main drawing for the rudder which also has the horn.
> What screws/bolts should be used for mounting instruments? I've been
> working on my panel with a flycutter and just chanced to meet
> someone with a
> milling machine so I should be done (with the mounting) in the next few
> days. Can't wait.
All the instruments use 6-32 threads. Most people use black oxide coated
brass screws, MS35214-xx. A/C Spruce has them. As does Van's. They call them
"Pan head brass" but they're the same thing.
> What kind of wire has been used for the electric elevator trim? 22? I've
> seen some 3 pair wire at Home Depot that would be really easy to
> run back to
> the tail. Of course, it is probably PVC insulated. Are there any 3 pair
> wires for aircraft?
Get the 5-wire cable from Menzeimer (MAC, now Ray Allen). It's got the right
color coding to match the servos. I got my cable from Mouser or Digikey and
the colors were slightly different. I continually fought it while wiring...
now what color am I using instead of orange? A minor irritant but you'll
have enough of those you can't avoid this easily.
> Any local sources in San Francisco for Tefzel wire, grommets, Adel clamps
> and AN fuel fittings?
>
> Anyone know where to find the flexible ground strap to ground the
> engine to
> the firewall?
Check out Aeroelectric Connection and B&C (see the Yeller pages for contact
info) for the ground strap and other electrical goodies. They'll make the
straps to length. I made my own ground straps from welding cable just like
the battery cables. The welding cable is very flexible and cheap.
> Thanks!
>
> Parker
Regards,
Greg Young
RV-6 N6GY Houston (DWH) RIP
Searching for Navion
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Hiers" <craig_rv4(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Peas Please (Story) |
. There were about 5 or 6 large tables and as people sat down, iced
> teas appeared. As I was waiting for the menus, food dishes started
> appearing also. No menus or ordering here. The deal is they keep
bringing
> food until you leave. When a dish gets half empty it gets replenished.
I'm
> sure I can't remember everything, but some of the food I can think of is:
> fried chicken, meatloaf, coleslaw, potato salad, peas, beans, potatos,
okra,
> corn, mustard greens, rolls, green beans and peach cobler. All of this is
> homemade, hearty, real food; no tofu in sight.
>
The above is standard operating procedure in South Georgia.
Craig Hiers
Moultrie,GA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Electric Elevator servo questions Part II |
First, thanks for the help on my last posting. That got me over the
first "hump".
Secondly. I,m ready to attach the bassackwordly marked "Z" brackets
(a.k.a. EET-602's) to the cover plate E-616. The plans call for round
head rivets AN470AD3. Purely for esthetics (Nothing like making it look
good from the bottom huh?) I'd like to use 426's and dimple the cover
plate and of course the brackets. Anybody have any thoughts on making
that change?
Thanks
Steve Struyk
St. Charles, MO
RV-8 Emp. waiting for QB in Mar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator servo questions Part II |
I dimpled mine
Gert
Steve Struyk wrote:
>
>
> First, thanks for the help on my last posting. That got me over the
> first "hump".
>
> Secondly. I,m ready to attach the bassackwordly marked "Z" brackets
> (a.k.a. EET-602's) to the cover plate E-616. The plans call for round
> head rivets AN470AD3. Purely for esthetics (Nothing like making it look
> good from the bottom huh?) I'd like to use 426's and dimple the cover
> plate and of course the brackets. Anybody have any thoughts on making
> that change?
>
> Thanks
> Steve Struyk
> St. Charles, MO
> RV-8 Emp. waiting for QB in Mar.
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: instrument cut out |
>> > > Does anyone have an instrument cut out template for locating the
screw holes
> > > that I could borrow?
> the templates are in aircraft spruce
Yeah, but the template tool assures proper alignment of those little holes.
Good tool for a EAA or Builders chapter to have as you only need it for
about an hour.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RPM vs. Fuel burn (flowmeters) |
> > I plan to placard my panel with the three sums that represent 75, 65,
and
> > 55% power along with the burn in lbs or gallons. That should save the
cost
> > of a flowmeter.....
> > Scott in VAncouver
> > -6 finishing
Of course many people get by without flow meters. We call those people
CESSNA DRIVERS!
:-) :-) :-)
But seriously, after flying with a fuel computer (the Matronics Fuel Scan to
be precise) I wouldn't go back. Its really a useful instrument, in more ways
than one. I highly recommend putting one in your plane, you won't regret it.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~300 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)attbi.com> |
I am having trouble with my GPS after 5 years of flawless service. It
started displaying text in Chinese-like characters. They sent me a new
unit. The problem now is that when the antenna is attached to the
remote cable (type RG 1747-U) I can't continue to capture satellites. I
used it in this configuration for 5 years and now it doesn't work. The
factory tech is clueless so I am hoping someone out there has an idea.
With the antenna attached directly to the hand-held unit it works fine,
captures 8 sats., in maybe 20 secs. If I unhook the antenna, plug it
into the cable and place the antenna almost exactly where it was when
directly attached (within =BD") it will start dropping sats. (from being
unplugged) and then SLOWLY get back to the 8 sats. and lock into 3-D
mode. Sometimes it never seems to recuperate from being switched. If I
shut the unit off, switch to the remote set-up I will never capture more
than 1 satellite(indicated) and then, of course, never lock in. For 5
years I had the antenna on the visor and the unit mounted between the
seats. I would plug in the cable, turn it on and usually have it locked
in by the time I had taxied to the end of the hangar. I remember
noticing that the Garmin pilot III I bought as a back-up would take to
the end of the runway to lock in.
So it seems that the cable is suspect. They sent me a new one, no
changes. Plugged into my panel I get a 11.85 volt reading. Using just
the battery nothing changes, even though lately I'm down to 7.9 volts.
(that is direct, 8 sats, remote, only1). The tech started saying stuff
about a floating ground problem. I don't think he knows more than the
actual word. Seems to me that if that were the problem then running on
battery alone would fix it, which it doesn't. When I sent the unit to
the factory they claimed that the unit worked fine in both modes. Then
I find out too, that they have rooftop antennas and perhaps GPS signal
repeaters at the factory, so I question how valid their testing is as
far as real world. The unit also "cold starts" to the factory location.
It seems to me that either the circuits have changed in the
GPS unit or the impedence of the cable has changed. Two new cables have
made no difference however. They test fine for continuity. If I wasn't
able to eventually lock on to all 8 sats. with the cable then I would
suspect the actual connections. It seems the signal strength using the
cable is far weaker than with the antenna directly attached. Why this
has changed I don't know (those damn floating grounds again!)
If anyone has a clue I'd love a reply. This GPS has taken me from AK to
the Bahamas and now I'm lost!! Kevin Lane N3773 -6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator servo questions Part II |
Hi Steve, welcome to the asylum! 8-)
You can use flush rivets PLUS- you can also use K1100 platenuts and flush
screws on the cover for that "fully flush" surface. (your more recent kit
may already include these?) I called Van's about using them and was sent a
"kit" they had put together for just this purpose. (for a nominal fee, of
course)
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips -6A, fuse in the rotisserie, builder in "platenut
purgatory"...
Steve Struyk wrote:
>
> First, thanks for the help on my last posting. That got me over the
> first "hump".
>
> Secondly. I,m ready to attach the bassackwordly marked "Z" brackets
> (a.k.a. EET-602's) to the cover plate E-616. The plans call for round
> head rivets AN470AD3. Purely for esthetics (Nothing like making it look
> good from the bottom huh?) I'd like to use 426's and dimple the cover
> plate and of course the brackets. Anybody have any thoughts on making
> that change?
>
> Thanks
> Steve Struyk
> St. Charles, MO
> RV-8 Emp. waiting for QB in Mar.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RPM vs. Fuel burn (flowmeters) |
Randall Henderson wrote:
>
>
> > > I plan to placard my panel with the three sums that represent 75, 65,
> and
> > > 55% power along with the burn in lbs or gallons. That should save the
> cost
> > > of a flowmeter.....
> > > Scott in VAncouver
> > > -6 finishing
>
> Of course many people get by without flow meters. We call those people
> CESSNA DRIVERS!
>
> :-) :-) :-)
>
> But seriously, after flying with a fuel computer (the Matronics Fuel Scan to
> be precise) I wouldn't go back. Its really a useful instrument, in more ways
> than one. I highly recommend putting one in your plane, you won't regret it.
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~300 hrs)
> Portland, OR
> www.vanshomewing.org
>
I have to agree with Randall, I was one of those people that really
fought upgrading to Loran and then GPS because I had been flying
forever without them so felt I did not need them. When moving maps
started getting popular I figured my trusty old panel mounted
Flybuddy GPS told me everything I needed to know. I then had an
opportunity to get a Garmin 195 for a good price and am now hooked on
moving maps.
The same thing applied to fuel flow meters, I had flown so long with
out one that I figured I did not need one. That was tell I got involved
with Matt and his FuelScan (now FuelChec) helping him do some testing
with it in my RV-6. While it is still possible to calculate fuel needed
to reach a destination the FuelScan takes all doubt away at any given
power setting it well tell me what my fuel burn is and how many hours
I can fly at the current power setting. It is interfaced with the
GPS so this is all real time calculations. This is just a small part
of what Matts Fuel computer can do. While this may sound like a
commercial it is not. I just like this instrument so well that I would
like to see Matt sell more of these than JPI ever thought of selling. :)
Jerry Springer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS help needed |
Maybe the antenna or cable to the antenna is bad.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "kevin lane" <n3773(at)attbi.com>
Subject: RV-List: GPS help needed
I am having trouble with my GPS after 5 years of flawless service. It
started displaying text in Chinese-like characters. They sent me a new
unit. The problem now is that when the antenna is attached to the
remote cable (type RG 1747-U) I can't continue to capture satellites. I
used it in this configuration for 5 years and now it doesn't work. The
factory tech is clueless so I am hoping someone out there has an idea.
With the antenna attached directly to the hand-held unit it works fine,
captures 8 sats., in maybe 20 secs. If I unhook the antenna, plug it
into the cable and place the antenna almost exactly where it was when
directly attached (within =BD") it will start dropping sats. (from being
unplugged) and then SLOWLY get back to the 8 sats. and lock into 3-D
mode. Sometimes it never seems to recuperate from being switched. If I
shut the unit off, switch to the remote set-up I will never capture more
than 1 satellite(indicated) and then, of course, never lock in. For 5
years I had the antenna on the visor and the unit mounted between the
seats. I would plug in the cable, turn it on and usually have it locked
in by the time I had taxied to the end of the hangar. I remember
noticing that the Garmin pilot III I bought as a back-up would take to
the end of the runway to lock in.
So it seems that the cable is suspect. They sent me a new one, no
changes. Plugged into my panel I get a 11.85 volt reading. Using just
the battery nothing changes, even though lately I'm down to 7.9 volts.
(that is direct, 8 sats, remote, only1). The tech started saying stuff
about a floating ground problem. I don't think he knows more than the
actual word. Seems to me that if that were the problem then running on
battery alone would fix it, which it doesn't. When I sent the unit to
the factory they claimed that the unit worked fine in both modes. Then
I find out too, that they have rooftop antennas and perhaps GPS signal
repeaters at the factory, so I question how valid their testing is as
far as real world. The unit also "cold starts" to the factory location.
It seems to me that either the circuits have changed in the
GPS unit or the impedence of the cable has changed. Two new cables have
made no difference however. They test fine for continuity. If I wasn't
able to eventually lock on to all 8 sats. with the cable then I would
suspect the actual connections. It seems the signal strength using the
cable is far weaker than with the antenna directly attached. Why this
has changed I don't know (those damn floating grounds again!)
If anyone has a clue I'd love a reply. This GPS has taken me from AK to
the Bahamas and now I'm lost!! Kevin Lane N3773 -6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Scales |
> Aircraft Scales and CHOCKS. They go together!!
Ooooo. Sounds like experience causing a gain in knowledge. Don't forget to
subtract the weight of the chocks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SSPRING83(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fluctuating Altimeter |
I have a question for some of you experienced guys with IQs like mine of
less than 168. The altimeter in my -4 has a fluctuation of about a hundred
feet , sometimes 130 ft or so. This happens at cruise and usually at an
altitude of less than 3500'. Above this it will smooth out and stabalize. An
old timer told me to blow out the lines with an air hose, both ram and
static, which I did and it does'nt seem to help any. The airspeed ind. is
fine as well as the ROC, they are not affected by this pulsation of the
altimeter. The static line goes aft and is split into a "T" about 28 "
forward of the HS and exits either side of the fuselage. this line is not
plugged and is free from any moisture. Have I got a bum altimeter that I
have to replace?
Anybody got any ideas about how to go after this? How do I check
out the altimeter? Thanking you in advance......... George RV-4
PS Charlie England is right. Don't let anyone take away any of
our rights ,our guns or aircraft don;t need anymore legislation.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fluctuating Altimeter |
>
>
> I have a question for some of you experienced guys with IQs like mine
>of
>less than 168. The altimeter in my -4 has a fluctuation of about a hundred
>feet , sometimes 130 ft or so. This happens at cruise and usually at an
>altitude of less than 3500'. Above this it will smooth out and stabalize.
>An
>old timer told me to blow out the lines with an air hose, both ram and
>static, which I did and it does'nt seem to help any. The airspeed ind. is
>fine as well as the ROC, they are not affected by this pulsation of the
>altimeter. The static line goes aft and is split into a "T" about 28 "
>forward of the HS and exits either side of the fuselage. this line is not
>plugged and is free from any moisture. Have I got a bum altimeter that I
>have to replace?
> Anybody got any ideas about how to go after this? How do I
>check
>out the altimeter? Thanking you in advance......... George RV-4
I would try taping over one of the static ports and go test fly it. Prop
slipstream could be doing something funky to your static reference on either
side. If it still does it, you can disconnect the tubing from the ports and
use the internal tailcone area as a reference. Your indicated altitude will
likely NOT be accurate, by the way. But if the needles stabilize, then you
might need to relocate the ports or use a differently shaped port. I'm just
grabbing at straws here but it's worth a shot. If it once did work well,
then the ports should be just fine.
Testing the altimeter requires a manometer to be able to draw down very
small amounts of pressure to note meter movement, accuracy and stability.
Basically, a calibration with an accurate standard is in order.
Lastly, swap out the unit with a known good altimeter. You might have a bad
egg.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
275 hrs.
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGray67968(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Flight Planning - long |
This was sent to the SoCal group from Paul Rosales. Long - delete if
not
interested. please archive for folks like me. I only travel if all the
Buffalo are standing and facing South :
) ....lots of great links
Hi Scott and thanks for writing! I'm finally getting replies out to
18 days worth of e-mail! Congrats on your approaching 90 hours! And no, you
are not making it at all difficult, and I'd be happy to share with you what I
have learned in the last 18 months of flying our RV to 36 states, including
Alaska :-) Here is a little background on me:
I got my Private's license at age 19 in 1979 (Dad was a private
pilot/A&P). My wife (then girlfriend) Victoria was my first passenger back
then and we have been flying together ever since (she LOVES it). We had been
averaging 1.5 hours a month for 21 years to June 2000 before our plane was
finished. At age 20, I set a goal that I would own a plane by age 40, and I
made it by a few months :-) I just never thought that I would build it! At
the time of my first RV flight, I had about 350 hours in Grumman
Tiger/Cheetah, Piper Warrior and C-172. Now with the RV, we have been
averaging 1.5 hours per day, thanks to having no kids and two jobs :-) The
plane just passed 800 hours during our trip and I am somewhere around 1150
hours, all VFR! I have to be honest and tell you that I'm no expert in
cross-country flying other than having the confidence in my planning and
flight skills to attempt it! When flying pre-RV, I would fly to the Los
Angeles Basin and use the 'system'. As such, I became very comfortable
talking on the radio in 'congested' airspace. You just won't get that
punching holes in the sky. The old saying holds true 'You can fly the same
hour a thousand times or you can fly an hour a thousand ways! All my flying
prior to getting our RV finished was, at most, a 1 hour radius in a C-172
which really is not that far (you can hardly get lost in that time). Lots of
night flights to Santa Monica for Dinner! Now we find ourselves making 180nm
one-way trips (1 hr) for lunch to Vegas, flying night VFR through Dallas
Class B airspace, and we recently flew in and around the Space Shuttle TFR
near the Cape :-) What follows is probably more than you wanted but you get
me going on flying and I GO! Plus, work was pretty quiet tonight and it's
helping pass the time!
I do all of our flight planning on the computer via
http://www.aeroplanner.com They recently started charging a minimal fee to
use their services, but if you are an EAA member, you can register via
http://www.eaa.org (see the logo at the top left corner of the EAA website)
and use Aeroplanner.com for free. Using there flight-planning software gives
me all the info I need (brg/dist/time/fuel/ete/eta etc.) to plan a flight (I
have already programmed my fuel burn/speeds into the system). I then print
the 'triptik' and that is what I take with me. During the runup, I program
the GPS for my trip using the 'triptik' and off we go. As for the flying, I
use our Skyforce panel mounted GPS entirely as I do not have a VOR in my
plane. I also have a backup handheld Magellan GPS just in case. I am
fortunate in that Victoria is the 'Navigator', and though I fly the GPS, she
follows along with an open WAC chart in her lap and cross-checks my flight
path. We carry all current WACS (you fly off Sectionals too fast..) and am
looking into trying out http://www.airchart.com Topographic Charts. After 22
years of flying together (and 800+ in the RV in the last 18 months), Victoria
has become an EXCELLENT navigator and flying companion!! One thing I can add
is that here in the West, once we get 'on course', I pick a point in the
distance which is typically a mountain peak or valley, and then I aim for
that using the GPS to keep me 'on track'. Once I reach that point, I pick
another and so on. I'm finding that this will NOT work once you get past the
Rockies because the USA is VERY flat eastbound! For airport information, I
carry all three (West/Central/East) http://www.flightguide.com
(West/Central/East) Flight Guides. I have been using the Western Flightguide
since 1979 and have been very happy with them! If you decide to use these
yourself, I recommend you build a flightguide 'holder' of some sort (mine is
on the floor, center, against the wing spar and is just a small aluminum box
with a slot cutout....I'm ready to make it bigger to hold 3 guides :-) Now
to the most important part of the flight.....WEATHER!!!
This too is VERY new to me, but once again, it's not a problem IF you
are not in a hurry to be anywhere :-) I start watching the weather several
days out, and for a quick n' dirty on what lies ahead weather-wise, I use
http://www.weather.com/maps/aviation.html then check the US National Weather
maps for Sun/Mon/Tues... I then go to several other sites and see what they
all say for an outlook for my route of flight and to where I'm heading. I
studied Engineering so I'm big into making sure I have a good 'sample' to
reach a 'conclusion'! Here are some of the sites I use with the first
(accuweather) being my all-time favorite to get all the weather I need
(maps/radar/satellite/nexrad) They also have maps that show animation' of
what the weather has been doing and that's great to see which way it's moving
and how fast....
http://www.accuweather.com
http://wwwa.accuweather.com/adcbin/radar_menu.asp?nav=home&
partner=accuweather
http://www.intellicast.com
http://www.wunderground.com
http://www.weather.com
http://www.noaa.gov
For aviation weather, I use the following:
http://adds.aviationweather.noaa.gov
http://www.aopa.org (I use their aviation forecast graphics A LOT!)
http://www.duats.com (for flight plans and weather as well...they too have
forecast graphics I like)
http://www.intellicast.com/LocalWeather/World/UnitedStates/BaseReflectivity/
(excellent NEXRAD site)
So now you've planned your flight, checked the weather so
hopefully have an idea of whether or not you'll be able to leave, and what to
expect enroute. Before I leave for the airport, I go to http://www.duats.com
and get an area then route briefing. I then call Flight Service and get a
standard briefing, and with Sept 11th, I make sure to ask about TFR
(Temporary Flight Restriction) areas that are on my route of flight. NOTAMS
(which include TFRs) are automatically briefed with a standard briefing
EAA.org at http://www.eaa.org/news/notam.html and Aeroplanner.com
http://www.aerochart.com/mapping/tfr.cfm both have maps that you can use
quick 'n dirty to check on TFRs but remember: FLIGHT SERVICE KNOWS ALL. You
SURELY don't want to be overflying Bush's Ranch in Texas or Camp David, both
of which have TFRs to heaven and are bigger than what is displayed on the
WAC!!!!!!!! Then, every night on our trip, I check weather for the next day
to see what the forecast is and where we can go next (or stay on the ground).
Wakeup, check weather, brief, etc...repeat nightly/daily until safely home
:-) Since we built our RV to travel far, we have been visiting and staying
with friends all over the country (and they all have internet access). I
have not YET needed to take a laptop with me (Gary Sobek takes one with him
but he stays in motels more than I) but am finding that if we ever get stuck
short of our destination, I'll have to do it all via the telephone and TVs
Weather Channel. Ok Scott, that's about all I can think of, and like I said,
probably more than what you wanted! I CCed my friend Rick Gray as he'll be
flying his -6 here VERY soon and he too could you some of this information
:-) Heck, I don't know if you are building or not?!? Please check back if
you have any questions! Happy New Year! Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Blum <bob(at)theblums.net> |
I have occasionally noted a loud low pitched thump when I am in a sustained
climb or descent. It sounds as though it is coming from behind me in the
fusilege or empinage area of my RV6a. I don't feel any vibration when it
occurs.
My first thought is that it is related to cooling/heating of the skin. Has
anyone experienced anything similar?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrjb(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RPM vs. Fuel burn (flowmeters) |
I was one of those people that really
fought upgrading to Loran and then GPS because I had been flying
forever without them so felt I did not need them. When moving maps
started getting popular I figured my trusty old panel mounted
Flybuddy GPS told me everything I needed to know. I then had an
opportunity to get a Garmin 195 for a good price and am now hooked on
moving maps.
Jerry,
I loved my Garmin 195 until I tried the Anywhere software in the ipaq. I
still have the Garmin there as a backup, but have never had the ipaq drop
off line in 150 hours of flying.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Springer" <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross A. Scroggs" <rscroggs(at)mediaone.net> |
Happy New Year everybody!!
Got a question for the RV-4 people.
I've been assembling the F404 bulkhead and I think I've missed
something. I've riveted it together and then
noticed that the F404E side plates should have had a slight bend along
the center line as shown on drawing 13.
I guess I missed this or just got caught up in building.
Should I remove these plates and make the bend as shown or is it really
needed? I don't see anything
in the drawings that show a real need for this but I'm sure it's there
for a reason.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Ross Scroggs
RV-4 #3911 F404
Conyers, Ga.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: popping noise |
I get it about 2 minutes after being on the ground under certain temperature
conditions. Sounds like a skin popping out if you were to push on it and
let it go. I think it might be a skin that is just not quite tight
enough...could very well be the same thing on yours.
Paul Besing
RV-6A N197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Flying
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Blum" <bob(at)theblums.net>
Subject: RV-List: popping noise
>
> I have occasionally noted a loud low pitched thump when I am in a
sustained
> climb or descent. It sounds as though it is coming from behind me in the
> fusilege or empinage area of my RV6a. I don't feel any vibration when it
> occurs.
>
> My first thought is that it is related to cooling/heating of the skin.
Has
> anyone experienced anything similar?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill and Joy Mosley, Mosley Living Trust, NABA, Inc." <mosley(at)sedona.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: popping noise |
Robert,
I have the same kind of thump sound, but it happens after I land. It is
definatly the sheet metal, I think it is pressure changing, it happens when
I raise the canapy. I'm sure the metal moves in flight, but have not heard
it.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
I use it and it's the best I have seen to date. I made a Velcro
strap arrangement to put it on my leg and a slot for the stylus.The
reason for the slot for the stylus is that in the Ipaq it's spring
loaded and I felt it would be easy to drop when you were getting it out.
It would be hard to use the stylus with it on the panel. You will love
the unit.
This is not to start an argument but I don't see any handheld
GPS that compares with this and you have a computer too. Everybody has
their likes so whatever floats your boat.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave ford
Subject: RV-List: Mount for Ipaq
Wondered if anyone is using the Anywhere Map/Ipaq and if they have found
a good way to mount the display in an RV, more specifically an RV6?
Dave Ford
RV6 fuel system
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrjb(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mount for Ipaq |
I find the ipaq very easy to use mounted off my panel with a mod to the stem
mount found in the kit and I do not have to look down in the cockpit to see
it.
Bernie
> It would be hard to use the stylus with it on the panel. You will love
> the unit.
> This is not to start an argument but I don't see any handheld
> GPS that compares with this and you have a computer too. Everybody has
> their likes so whatever floats your boat.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Kilpatrick <aeronut58(at)yahoo.com> |
N888GK (formerly known as standard kit #80006) flew
last Friday morning (1/11/02) from Addison Municpal
Airport, Addison, Texas after 5 years, 7 months of
building.
Performance and handling were exactly as expected, and
the airplane managed
a perfect 3 point landing despite my best efforts to
screw it up.
This bird has an O360A4M with Sensenich metal
propellor, a full gyro panel with King radios and
weighs in at 1082 pounds, unpainted.
Is it a thrill? There are not words to describe it.
I had transition training and check-out from Alex
DiDomenicus in his RV-6, and I recommend Alex to
anyone preparing to fly their own RV for the first
time.
George Kilishek
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Fluctuating Altimeter |
If the ASI and ROC are stable then the problem almost has to be the altimeter
itself. To confirm it, disconnect the static line from the instrument and try it,
it won't be quite accurate but it will isolate the problem. My guess is a bad
altimeter.
By the way, don't forget to plug the static line that you removed from the
altimeter or the ASI won't read right.
Dave -6 So Cal
SSPRING83(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I have a question for some of you experienced guys with IQs like mine of
> less than 168. The altimeter in my -4 has a fluctuation of about a hundred
> feet , sometimes 130 ft or so. This happens at cruise and usually at an
> altitude of less than 3500'. Above this it will smooth out and stabalize. An
> old timer told me to blow out the lines with an air hose, both ram and
> static, which I did and it does'nt seem to help any. The airspeed ind. is
> fine as well as the ROC, they are not affected by this pulsation of the
> altimeter. The static line goes aft and is split into a "T" about 28 "
> forward of the HS and exits either side of the fuselage. this line is not
> plugged and is free from any moisture. Have I got a bum altimeter that I
> have to replace?
> Anybody got any ideas about how to go after this? How do I check
> out the altimeter? Thanking you in advance......... George RV-4
>
> PS Charlie England is right. Don't let anyone take away any of
> our rights ,our guns or aircraft don;t need anymore legislation.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)ticnet.com> |
My Concorde RG battery continues to give perfect service after almost
three years. Is there an easy and accurate test procedure to determine
if it should be replaced? Or should I replace it solely as a
precaution?
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
Will,
Check out: http://209.134.106.21/articles/battest.pdf
This is electric Bob's battery testing setup.
Ed Holyoke
6QB
My Concorde RG battery continues to give perfect service after almost
three years. Is there an easy and accurate test procedure to determine
if it should be replaced? Or should I replace it solely as a
precaution?
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
,
| Subject: | Dynacam Engine Demo at Flabob |
I bopped up to Flabob today for the Dynacam engine demo and the EAA BBQ.
Great time. Random meaningless pictures here:
http://www.rvproject.com:8000/images/flabob/
A couple RVs (one really beautiful RV-6A, other than that nosewheel), a few
other interesting planes, great folks, lots of chicken.
The Dynacam engine seems like it has possibilities. For those who aren't
familiar with it, it's a 12-cylinder engine. There are 6 pairs of
connected, outwardly opposing pistons. Basically 6 double-sided pistons.
They fire back and forth along the engine's longitudinal axis, which is
aligned with the aircraft's longitudinal axis (or vertical in a heli).
There is a large "cam wheel" centrally located on the drive shaft. This cam
"wobbles" back and forth, so to speak, pushing the piston pairs back and
forth. There are valves on each end of the engine.
Very interesting design. It's supposed to be a bit lighter than a
traditional 4-banger, and apparently it's smooth to boot. They claim 210
hp. Dammit...I left the brochure up there on the picnic table! Duh.
Well, anyway, my opinion (I know, you didn't ask) is that this engine ain't
for me. I'm not comfortable with the forces imparted on the cam wheel.
There are roller bearings all over this engine, and I don't like that. The
engine's redline is 2000 RPM, and cruise power setting is 1700 RPM. What
kind of prop can you swing at that speed? I don't know much about gear
reduction other than the fact that I don't want to mess with it. And I
don't know props well enough either. Somebody needs to tell me what would
be involved in properly thrusting an RV-7 with an engine only turning
1700-2000 RPM.
One more thing...the engine config Dynacam is using has dual carbs (not for
me), although they say there's a fuel injection system that produces
identical power. Hm.
I'd like to see how these engines perform over hundreds of thousands of
collective flight hours. They've got an Arrow flying with one of these
suckers right now. We'll see. Anyway, it was really interesting to see a
different design. Good food for thought.
Who wants to buy my Mooney? http://www.m20j.com:8000 I need to sell it so
I can buy the rest of my RV-7. Argh!
)_( Dan
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com:8000
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | hoggwild(at)swbell.net |
looking for a project that someone had to quit on, preferably a
quickbuild
rv-8 or partially started kit..
please email or call
Bill Phillips
501-944-4357
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Question |
Ross,
I'd take them off and put in the bend. Your fuselage side makes a change in
direction there and that .062 material on the 404 is pretty stiff. By using
them the way they are now you'll force your bend to move to the edge of the
.062 material. This is an ugly enough spot on the airframe without that!
Trust me, it is pretty easy to get them off and back on again.
Russ
RE:
> I've been assembling the F404 bulkhead and I think I've missed
> something. I've riveted it together and then
> noticed that the F404E side plates should have had a slight bend along
> the center line as shown on drawing 13.
> I guess I missed this or just got caught up in building.
> Should I remove these plates and make the bend as shown or is it really
> needed? I don't see anything
> in the drawings that show a real need for this but I'm sure it's there
> for a reason.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ross Scroggs
> RV-4 #3911 F404
> Conyers, Ga.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flamini2" <flamini2(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Follow Up - January 13, 2002 |
----- Original Message -----
From: 2wienceks
Subject: Follow Up - January 13, 2002
Hello gang!
What a day this was! A real "sleeper"! When I sent out a destination
suggestion mid day yesterday, I did so only because at the relatively
last minute, I found out that the weather was going to be nice. The
late notice made me think we would have a light crowd. Well, I was
wrong before, and I was wrong today! We had a whale of a turn out....
I was solo in the RV6
Bob and Nancy in the Yak
Greg, Alex, and Ruth in a Skyhawk (first timers!)
Dick solo in the RV6
Steve M. solo in the C152
Dennis B. solo in the Yankee
Chuck and Phil in the RV6
Gregg, Dan, and Dave in the Tiger
Rosemary and Leroy in the Skyhawk
John and Bernie in the Glassair
John H. solo in the Traveler
Gary L. solo in the C140
Tom and Bruce in the Bonanza
Gene D. and Larry N. in the C182 (first time for Larry)
Bob B. and John G. in the Cheetah
Lee W. solo in the RV6A
Terry K solo in the C414, and met brother Bob who drove!
Bill and Jerry in the Mooney
Pete and Kate in the C180
Dennis F. solo in the Tailwind
George R, Jim J, and Ron in the C210
Cissy and Dave in the Decathlon (first timers!)
Don M. solo in the Ercoupe
Gordon and Frieda in the C182
I THINK I have everyone. This makes 41 members, and 24 planes! WOW!
I hope I captured everyone.
As I suggested yesterday, we made Rantoul our destination. The weather
on our departure from the Chicago area was between clear/sunshine and
high broken clouds, depending on where you left from. Winds were from
the south at 10 or so. Excellent visibility... for a change! And,
for those members reading this from warmer climates (you know who you
are!), no snow to be found, and temps rose to around 40 by mid day! Not
a bad day... for JANUARY in Chicago!
The pilots of the faster planes got the duty of driving the gang to/from
the Red Wheel Restaurant. So, thanks to Lee and Chuck for pulling duty
in this regard... no small feat given the size of our group today. The
restaurant was just great. They seated us in our own private room, and
we were served by an excellent waitress... who somehow managed to keep
everyone's orders and checks straight. Food was top notch too. I
would recommend this place again. Perhaps we can do this in the
spring..and go to the museum afterwards.
After a LOT of hanger flying and great fun, we headed back to the FBO.
Lee and I did driving honors for the return leg. Terry's brother Bob
helped out on both trips too (he drove from his home in Paxton). We all
pitched in for some fuel for the two tired (but dependable) courtesy
cars, and thanked our FBO hosts for a most enjoyable day. Don't forget
to check out the picture of the Rantoul ramp.. ALL the planes you will
see are from the SMBC! Quite an AIR FORCE. Afghanistan would be
jealous!
Most the gang headed to.... Morris for pie! I lifted off and hung
around for a few minutes waiting for Bob and Nancy in the Yak to lift
off. On the way to Morris, I snapped some shots of them and new members
Dave and Cissy in their Decathlon. We landed at Morris to a full
restaurant.. including three Army choppers. I hoped they were there
for pie too! Also, when we arrived at Morris, we were greeted by
members Randy and friend Ken in the Cheetah, Joe F. (by car!), Barry M,
and Tony D.
I'd have to rate this day a "9" out of "10".. the only drawback it was
not 75 degrees! It was a great day to be up flying. Hope to see you
all next week, and a "come on back" to new members, Larry, Dave and
Cissy, Greg, Alex and Ruth!
Mark
PS: Sun and Fun count down... just 12 weeks!
Also.. stay tuned for an upcoming event.. breakfast at Griffith and
private tour of the G&N engine facility. I will be looking into
scheduling this for Sunday, February 10. This is tentative.. more
details to follow. As with the American Champion tour.. I will be
asking for a show of hands to gauge if we have a suitable group to ask
G&N to provide us the tour.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
George,
CONGRATULATIONS & WELL DONE !!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
Niantic, CT
>From: George Kilpatrick <aeronut58(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: It Flies!
>Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 18:23:21 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>N888GK (formerly known as standard kit #80006) flew
>last Friday morning (1/11/02) from Addison Municpal
>Airport, Addison, Texas after 5 years, 7 months of
>building.
>
>Performance and handling were exactly as expected, and
>the airplane managed
>a perfect 3 point landing despite my best efforts to
>screw it up.
>
>This bird has an O360A4M with Sensenich metal
>propellor, a full gyro panel with King radios and
>weighs in at 1082 pounds, unpainted.
>
>Is it a thrill? There are not words to describe it.
>
>I had transition training and check-out from Alex
>DiDomenicus in his RV-6, and I recommend Alex to
>anyone preparing to fly their own RV for the first
>time.
>
>
>George Kilishek
>
>
>http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
>
>
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <craigchipley(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS help needed |
What Kind of GPS Kevin? Have you done the latest software update?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: popping noise |
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
10:25:32 AM
This might work into the "tail pumping" thread of last week. Could be the
fuse pressurizing and oil canning a skin. Sure have seen lots of post about
people putting stiffeners on the bottom skins aft of the firewall to avoid
oil canning. I plan to do it - someday.
Eric
"Paul Besing" (at)matronics.com on 01/13/2002
07:46:43 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: popping noise
I get it about 2 minutes after being on the ground under certain
temperature
conditions. Sounds like a skin popping out if you were to push on it and
let it go. I think it might be a skin that is just not quite tight
enough...could very well be the same thing on yours.
Paul Besing
RV-6A N197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Flying
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Blum" <bob(at)theblums.net>
Subject: RV-List: popping noise
>
> I have occasionally noted a loud low pitched thump when I am in a
sustained
> climb or descent. It sounds as though it is coming from behind me in the
> fusilege or empinage area of my RV6a. I don't feel any vibration when it
> occurs.
>
> My first thought is that it is related to cooling/heating of the skin.
Has
> anyone experienced anything similar?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Jantzi" <terry(at)iwantarocket.com> |
No matter what p****r you decide to use on your project, they all smell and
can mess up your workspace if you don't have a proper paint booth. I finally
put together something that works and will handle about 99% of my
requirements. It's a 2x4' x 16" high box from el cheapo shelf material. A
light fixture lens acts as the spray surface. I used a brushless fan to
provide suction and to exhaust the noxious odours outside. I now smell
nothing and there is no overspray. Pictures at my web site below under the
"Shop" section.
Terry Jantzi
Kitchener ON
F1 Rocket slowbuild
http://www.iwantarocket.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: popping noise |
I sometimes hear the same thing, but so far only during climb. I don't give
it much thought. My old C172 used to creak and groan all of the time so an
occasional sound from the RV doesn't concern me.
Dennis Persyk N600DP RV6A 108 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Blum" <bob(at)theblums.net>
Subject: RV-List: popping noise
>
> I have occasionally noted a loud low pitched thump when I am in a
sustained
> climb or descent. It sounds as though it is coming from behind me in the
> fusilege or empinage area of my RV6a. I don't feel any vibration when it
> occurs.
>
> My first thought is that it is related to cooling/heating of the skin.
Has
> anyone experienced anything similar?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Planejoel(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: popping noise |
On the RV6A, the plans call for the fuel selector bracket to be fastened to
the floor. Easy to miss.
Joe
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John & Teresa Huft" <widgeon92L(at)email.msn.com> |
Kevin, I am just taking a wild guess here. The antenna is an active type,
meaning that it has an amplifier in it, and it needs DC from the unit to
power it. It can happen that a lousy connection will give an inadequate
power to the antenna, and still pass the high frequency signal it gets back,
but the antenna is not working well. I would try cleaning the connector on
the GPS unit, and making sure the center connector is making a good
connection at both ends.
Good luck, John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of kevin lane
Subject: RV-List: GPS help needed
I am having trouble with my GPS after 5 years of flawless service. It
started displaying text in Chinese-like characters. They sent me a new
unit. The problem now is that when the antenna is attached to the
remote cable (type RG 1747-U) I can't continue to capture satellites. I
used it in this configuration for 5 years and now it doesn't work. The
factory tech is clueless so I am hoping someone out there has an idea.
With the antenna attached directly to the hand-held unit it works fine,
captures 8 sats., in maybe 20 secs. If I unhook the antenna, plug it
into the cable and place the antenna almost exactly where it was when
directly attached (within =BD") it will start dropping sats. (from being
unplugged) and then SLOWLY get back to the 8 sats. and lock into 3-D
mode. Sometimes it never seems to recuperate from being switched. If I
shut the unit off, switch to the remote set-up I will never capture more
than 1 satellite(indicated) and then, of course, never lock in. For 5
years I had the antenna on the visor and the unit mounted between the
seats. I would plug in the cable, turn it on and usually have it locked
in by the time I had taxied to the end of the hangar. I remember
noticing that the Garmin pilot III I bought as a back-up would take to
the end of the runway to lock in.
So it seems that the cable is suspect. They sent me a new one, no
changes. Plugged into my panel I get a 11.85 volt reading. Using just
the battery nothing changes, even though lately I'm down to 7.9 volts.
(that is direct, 8 sats, remote, only1). The tech started saying stuff
about a floating ground problem. I don't think he knows more than the
actual word. Seems to me that if that were the problem then running on
battery alone would fix it, which it doesn't. When I sent the unit to
the factory they claimed that the unit worked fine in both modes. Then
I find out too, that they have rooftop antennas and perhaps GPS signal
repeaters at the factory, so I question how valid their testing is as
far as real world. The unit also "cold starts" to the factory location.
It seems to me that either the circuits have changed in the
GPS unit or the impedence of the cable has changed. Two new cables have
made no difference however. They test fine for continuity. If I wasn't
able to eventually lock on to all 8 sats. with the cable then I would
suspect the actual connections. It seems the signal strength using the
cable is far weaker than with the antenna directly attached. Why this
has changed I don't know (those damn floating grounds again!)
If anyone has a clue I'd love a reply. This GPS has taken me from AK to
the Bahamas and now I'm lost!! Kevin Lane N3773 -6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com> |
Ram Mounts now has a mount for the IPAQ.
I bought mine through www.gpscity.com
Ed Cole
N2169D Flying
N648Rv Finishing...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: J. R. Dial [SMTP:jrdial@hal-pc.org]
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 5:12 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Mount for Ipaq
>
>
>
> I use it and it's the best I have seen to date. I made a Velcro
> strap arrangement to put it on my leg and a slot for the stylus.The
> reason for the slot for the stylus is that in the Ipaq it's spring
> loaded and I felt it would be easy to drop when you were getting it out.
> It would be hard to use the stylus with it on the panel. You will love
> the unit.
> This is not to start an argument but I don't see any handheld
> GPS that compares with this and you have a computer too. Everybody has
> their likes so whatever floats your boat.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave ford
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Mount for Ipaq
>
>
> Wondered if anyone is using the Anywhere Map/Ipaq and if they have found
> a good way to mount the display in an RV, more specifically an RV6?
>
> Dave Ford
> RV6 fuel system
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Maxim Home Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com
Products Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/MaximProducts/products.htm
New Products:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/new_products.cfm
Datasheets:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/l_datasheet3.cfm
The information contained in this message is confidential
and may be legally privileged. The message is intended
solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MSices" <msices(at)megsinet.net> |
FOR SALE:
VANS 0-360 Baffle Kit - brand new - in box (ended up with an IO360)
Part # BAF-6-360. Sells new at Vans for $190
............................................ $140
Fixed Vertical Card Compass - brand new in box -from Aircraft Spruce
Part # 8A1-700-14 (14volt). New at AC Spruce for
$255............................$200
VANS 0360 Filtered Airbox - brand new - in box
Part#FAB-360. New at Vans for $120
..........................................................$90
VANS Throttle Mixture Cable Bracket - new
Part# VA-149-1-PC KIT. New at Vans
$12.61..............................................$9.50
VANS Governor Cable Bracket - new
Part # VA-153-PC. New at Vans
$10.71........................................................$8
VANS Fuel Pump Fittings (all 4 new)
Parts # KB-000, 045, 090, 090-T. New at Vans
$29........................................$22
VANS RV8 3 Lever Quadrant - new
Part # CT 83F. New at Vans
$45......................................................................$34
VANS Exhaust Pipe Gaskets - 4 brand new
Part # EA GASKET 77611. New at Vans
$5.23/ea...........................................$4/ea
VANS Carb Heat Muff - new
Part # EA CARB HEAT MUFF. New at Vans
$22.5.........................................$16
RV8 Tail Kit - hs and vs complete, excellent workmanship, primed
all unused parts inventoried in bags.
New at Vans $1600
+...........................................................................
...............$1100
14 brand new REM40E Spark Plugs, in vacuum pack, never opened
New at AC SPruce -
$16.50/ea...................................................................
.......$12/ea
AVERY TOOLS "UhOh" hole saver rivet kit, brand new, never opened
part
#1097.......................................................................
....................................$19
ICOM IC-A22 HANDHELD TRANCEIVER - used
Very good condition, in original box hardly ever used. Sells new for
$549........................................................................
.............................................$415
-Michael Sices
RV8 Kenosha, Wi
If interested, please reply to me at msices(at)core.com. Will ship anywhere
for cost of shipping.
________________________________________________________________________________
Congrats, the best is yet to come.
Garry "Casper"
George Kilpatrick wrote:
>
> N888GK (formerly known as standard kit #80006) flew
> last Friday morning (1/11/02) from Addison Municpal
> Airport, Addison, Texas after 5 years, 7 months of
> building.
>
> Performance and handling were exactly as expected, and
> the airplane managed
> a perfect 3 point landing despite my best efforts to
> screw it up.
>
> This bird has an O360A4M with Sensenich metal
> propellor, a full gyro panel with King radios and
> weighs in at 1082 pounds, unpainted.
>
> Is it a thrill? There are not words to describe it.
>
> I had transition training and check-out from Alex
> DiDomenicus in his RV-6, and I recommend Alex to
> anyone preparing to fly their own RV for the first
> time.
>
> George Kilishek
>
> http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Scott Air Bottle For Sale |
I purchased a Scott air bottle recently. It is in good shape and has 4 more
years left before it has to be hydrostaticly (sp?) retested. I bought it
for a very good price, but unfortunately I've been unemployed for a while
and am selling unnecessary aviation "stuff". If anyone would be interested,
let me know. I paid $110 for it. You can buy breathing stations for it
for about $80 each from a number of sources. (breathing station contains a
regulator valve, flow meter, and conserving canula) At that, you could have
a 2 place system for about $250. Not too bad. I'd like to get what I have
into it back out of it. So here it is 110+ actual shipping.
Cylinder is long and thin in shape. Probably about 20 inches long and 4 or
5 inches wide. I can get exact dimensions if you'd like. It will fit cross
wise in an RV-4.
Thanks
Don Mei
It is full of O2. I could ship full if you wanted to pay the extra shipping
cost for "hazardous material" I have been told that the hazardous charge is
$15, which may or may not be less than a refil. Your choice.
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Other stuff for sale |
Some other items.
Conical Mount bushings - I bought them 3 months ago because I thought my
current ones were bad. Not needed. Set of 8 for 0-320. I paid about $35
for them. $20 CONDITION IS NEW.
I have a flightcom II SX model. It is a mono 2 place portable intercom.
$60 OBO. (Costs $109 new from Marv Golden. )
Older Kollsman Altimeter. Worked perfectly when removed. $39. Face in
good to fair condition. No corosion, numbers are just aren't very sharp
anymore. I took it out because I was able to buy a "pretty" one at a good
price on EBay.
Flightcom Headset - Basic, headset - $49
All items, buyer pays actual shipping cost.
Thanks,
Don Mei
RV-4 - N92CT
3B9 - Chester, CT
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Conditioning an RV (was NACA ducts) |
Hi Jim, been out of town.
If you check this thread I posted a series of tests I did, one was to seal the
baggage bulkhead with foam triangles it made almost no perceptible difference.
Turns out there are too many penetrations that let air forward, so the air just
leaks somewhere else.
Garry "Casper"
Jim Norman wrote:
>
> With all this talk about sealing the rear of the airframe, why not seal the
> rear baggage wall better? Did I miss something?
>
> jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Graham
> To: RV List
> Subject: RV-List: Air Conditioning an RV (was NACA ducts)
>
>
> Addendum: I have an RV-4FB and all of the later designs have a slightly
> different rear bulkhead arrangement and therefore the lightening holes are
> slightly different than I described. They still need to be sealed and/or
> booted. Focus on the top and bottom sections of the bulkhead at the front
> of the tail deck. Sorry about the oversight. I have an RV-4 kinda mind.
>
> Reference:
>
> To Laird, Garry, Garry, Bob, Mike, et al.
>
> It sure is great to see that the subject of tail pumping (and what to do
> about it) is finally catching on. Since I started posting on this subject
> over a year ago, it is a pleasure to jump into the pool with such an
> esteemed group. I sincerely hope the splash doesn't go up your nose.
>
> We have all heard the pros (low drag) and cons (don't work in some
> locations) of NACA ducts (scoops). Probably 95% of the implementations are
> to let air into the aircraft, yet most builders leave out the inverted air
> foil under under the inlet lip that helps pull air into the plenum. The
> horn diffuser, ramp and vortex generator aspects are usually adequately
> implemented. It took several years for folks to find that the high pressure
> area under the wing made them work very well, without much risk of exhaust,
> etc. We didn't emphasize comfort in the old days.
>
> However, I come her to praise the outlet not the inlet interest. I sure am
> pleased that all seem to agree that tail pumping is the BIG problem. I have
> recommended use of a reverse NACA in the past (in a relative low pressure
> area) to aid in the conditioned air flow through the cockpit. This turning
> around of the available part from Vans (as has so well been pointed out) is
> not the most optimal solution to reversing the NACA concept (it was just
> easy and works when properly located and is a low drag hole). A reversed
> NACA design would have a low pressure generating airfoil (or wedge) on the
> outside and upwind of the lateral lip (or bend the lip outward slightly).
> The horn would still be divergent (getting wider, aft from the outlet). It
> was suggested 11 deg. max when using straight sides. Is that 11 deg. per
> side? The slope of the ramp would stay about the same. You would end up
> with a low pressure outlet that blended the outlet air into to the air
> stream. This hole doesn't have to be any bigger than the pressurized inlet
> air hole that you designed (assuming it is pressurized). The cockpit will
> pressurize and you will have plenty of good (warm and cool) air flow.
>
> However, (and here is the splash) all this works really well if we don't
> try to poke all the problems into one hole (notwithstanding, that old adage
> about cubic inches). The tail pumps and pumps a lot of air. I say fix it.
> The first bulkhead in the tail that the elevator push/pull tube passes
> through(front to aft) has two big holes and one square hole. The bulkhead
> at the end of the top skin has a big hole (big = 6"). Seal these with Mylar
> or painted gauze. etc. That is three big holes plugged. As for the square
> hole, install a boot made of synthetic suede or filled nylon (both very
> light and flexible and non porous) about 10" long and pointed forward
> (pressure keeps inflated) Heck, all you have to do is figure out how to get
> in there. ATTN. new builders!!! As for control drag, where can I buy some?
>
> About the inspection plate idea. I very much doubt that it will work
> because they are too far back. I used the same idea but I have a non
> standard inspection plate just ahead of the bulkhead (the one that should be
> sealed). There is surface drag associated with this devise but not a lot,
> and compared to the benefits......... The size of my RV-4s outlet hole
> (like round) is 1.25D" It worked fairly well before I started sealing up
> bulkheads. Don't forget to provide for air flow through the cockpit(i.e.
> baggage compartment) to the tail once it is sealed, booted and ported. The
> things that live back there need air too.
>
> Just another Gary (lost the other 'r' in the big one).
>
> ------------------------------
>
> To those of you who want better air flow through (hot and cold) the cockpit
> with smaller systems providing you with greater comfort, you need to stop
> the battle of inlet air coming from the front of the plane(your design) with
> that coming from the tail (and to some extent from the wings, rear canopy
> skirt, flap rod holes, etc.). The RV-4 tail PUMPS!!! and I suspect that the
> other designs do also. You can mitigate this problem as many s-cans have (
> or use the tail as a source of pressure air).
>
> I learned of this issue from books and followed up with empirical methods.
> After 35hrs. in the back of an RV-4, X-country, that had a single hole in
> the fire wall (no hoses in cockpit) providing heat evenly to the cockpit
> (front and back) I wanted to know how it worked so well. Because other RV's
> didn't, including mine. Sleeping under the wing, I spotted a hole in the
> belly that turned out to be one of those plastic NACA Ducts BACKWORDS. WAS
> this it? I wasn't about to cut up my bird to find out. The owner had
> purchased the RV-4 and had no idea why it was there. He thought it was part
> of the design (no hoses to it).
>
> Here is how I got my air conditioning GRINN: RV-4 Fastback
>
> To stop cold air from coming in an freezing certain body parts:
>
> 1. I sewed up some boots for the aileron push tubes from light weight
> synthetic leather(garment from the GoodWill).
>
> 2. Sealed the canopy to canopy rails with "P-Strip" from Van's.
>
> Sealed the front of the canopy to the cowl boot with the silicone pressed
> into plastic wrap.
>
> Sealed the front right corner of the canopy to canopy rail with a piece of
> foam wedge.
>
> Covered the flap arms with a shaped aluminum panel (this was for safety
> also).
>
> No problem with rear skirts because I don't have them. No stick boots
> either but maybe one day. The lack of stick boots does allow for air
> flow under the floorboards but I'm not sure that this is an advantage.
>
> All of this sealing got a HALF GRINN.
>
> My source of fresh air is a 7/8" hole in the left wing root fairing, plumbed
> with 1" hose to a dash mounted Wemac(sp) ball. My source of hot air is
> standard through a 1.5" valve on the center of the firewall (Lancair) In
> the future I will be adding some general purpose cooling air near the ruder
> pedals with a valve. Right now I am bypassing the heat exchanger in the
> summer.
>
> Before I made the full grin changes, this is what happened. I would open
> my air conditioning valves and would receive a blast of air that would then
> diminish as the cockpit would pressurize. The fight was on between the
> front air and the tail air. The front lines were at the cockpit. Without
> stick boots I have plenty of openings front to back under the floor boards.
> With stick boots I would have to open a 2" (min.) hole in the baggage
> compartment. The RV-4 has enough of a leak around the back seat to the
> baggage compartment.
>
> You may remember that I proved the tail pumping theory by providing a 1/4"
> stream of 100LL down the belly where it proceeded to spice up my day(see
> "There I was at 10,000 feet" in the RV Archives). The good and the bad of
> tail pumping.
>
> Full GRINN Time:
>
> Improving cockpit air flow:
>
> 1. Remember that I didn't want to cut a reverse NACA Duct in my RV's
> belly? It so happens that I have an inspection plate forward of the first
> tail bulkheads(this was to get at the bolts that hold my tail on(first
> generation mod. to equal second gen. strength). I made up a second cover
> plate, cut an 1 1/4" hole in it and made a fiberglass cover for the hole
> that looks like a rounded over half of a jar lid. Think of it as a reverse
> scoop(idea stolen from a British Auster antique that a friend wins prizes
> with). The trailing edge of this device is 1/2" and the purpose is to
> create a low pressure area over the hole. I haven't sewn a boot for the
> elevator push tube at that first tail bulkhead yet, but I moved the battle
> front back to the tail. I have so much hot air that I can't open the valve
> but a crack. BIG GRINN
>
> 2. Seal the tail off with a boot and put a reverse something forward of it
> on the belly or wherever. My proof of concept part is just under the
> leading edge of the left horz. stab. (remember that it is also an inspection
> cover).
>
> Warm in the NW
> Gary Graham
> P.S.
> This is the posting I submitted on 2/06/01 I can't take credit for the for
> the info. posted on 3/14/01 with my name signed. ref. vents used in the
> housing market (I have not tested these, but they make sense to me).
> Gary
> PPS. " Battle front" is a metaphor for the area in the plane where the good
> air(wanted for heat or cooling) meets the bad air(flowing forward from the
> high pressure tail area). The reversed NACA Duct on my friends RV-4 is 49"
> forward of the last bulkhead.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: elevator jig rv6a |
Dear Listers
well i received the parts i needed from Vans to build the elevators that the
burglar destroyed. Vans had a left elevator already built, but i have to
build the right elevator. i had given away all my wing, rudder, elevator,
aileron , flap, jigs to a local rocket builder who seems to have droped off
the face of the planet, and i can't get in touch with him, so i can't get my
jigs back. what i need is someone to show me where in the prints is there a
pattern so i can make another set.
any info would help.
thanks
scott
tampa
i thought i was done riviting
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Sanford" <bsanford(at)silverlink.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Thermo Acoustic Blanket |
Hello All,
I am on the "homestretch" of my RV-8 project and will be installing
insulation in various areas of the cockpit to both insulate and reduce
noise. The material that I am going to use is manufactured by Orcon, a
supplier to commercial aircraft manufacturers and is identical to that
used to insulate their fuselages. It is a fiberglass-type with both
sides covered by a high-tech material that prevents the insulation from
giving you "the fiber itch" and also provides some degree of fire
protection for a short period of time.
The factory was kind enough to provide me with enough material to
experiment on the best way to fashion the insulation during the project
and that's my next task. As with so many others that have gone before me
and made cottage industries out of small aspects of the aircraft
building "adventure", I have a question for you: are there any RV-8
builders that would be interested in purchasing an insulation package
for their project? As I've said, I'm not sure how the final product
would look, but I am thinking that it would be a number of individual
numbered pieces each sized for their area and possibly held secure with
Velcro tape. Of course the area for the back-seater would be covered by
the floor panels and I envision either cloth side covers or super
lightweight aerospace hardcover material for the sidewalls (your choice,
of course-I'm just the insulation guy).
The price? I'm not sure yet depending upon time and materials. I'm just
trying to gage interest. Maybe around a hundred bucks or so?-Just a
guess. I DO know that after flying around in the back seat of my buddy's
RV-8 that any help on the cold-soak issue would be welcome.
If you're at all interested, send me a note and I'll keep you advised of
what I find and my progress. Thanks for your time.
Bill Sanford
N511SF
bsanford(at)silverlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <jack(at)IaJobs.com> |
Terry,
Great idea! Does the "brush less" fan mean it's safe from explosion?
Thanks,
Jack
RV8
DSM
No matter what p****r you decide to use on your project, they all smell and
can mess up your workspace if you don't have a proper paint booth. I finally
put together something that works and will handle about 99% of my
requirements. It's a 2x4' x 16" high box from el cheapo shelf material. A
light fixture lens acts as the spray surface. I used a brushless fan to
provide suction and to exhaust the noxious odours outside. I now smell
nothing and there is no overspray. Pictures at my web site below under the
"Shop" section.
Terry Jantzi
Kitchener ON
F1 Rocket slowbuild
http://www.iwantarocket.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | boost pump mounting |
| From: | "Robert Dickson" <bubba(at)coastalnet.com> |
I'm trying to install the fuel system on a -6A using Van's plans as closely
as possible. In mounting the boost pump as per drawing 49, however, I've
come upon the problem of the gap between the gusset and the skin. I drilled
and mounted the pump as shown on the drawing before coming upon the gap
problem, so now I'm in make-it-work mode.
I talked with Ken at Vans and he acted like he'd never seen this problem. He
suggested attaching a matching piece of angle on the inside of the fuse to
keep from squeezing the gusset and skin together.
I've seen Gary Zilik's solution on his web site, but what have others done
in this situation?
TIA
Robert Dickson
RV-6A spinner to tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Question |
In a message dated 1/13/2002 4:32:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rscroggs(at)mediaone.net writes:
> Got a question for the RV-4 people.
>
> I've been assembling the F404 bulkhead and I think I've missed
> something. I've riveted it together and then
> noticed that the F404E side plates should have had a slight bend along
> the center line as shown on drawing 13.
> I guess I missed this or just got caught up in building.
> Should I remove these plates and make the bend as shown or is it really
> needed? I don't see anything
> in the drawings that show a real need for this but I'm sure it's there
> for a reason.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ross Scroggs
> RV-4 #3911 F404
>
Coleco the side plates on at this time don't worry about it until you get the
F404 on a jig, you can make your ajustments then. Good Luck
Tim Barnes
Meangreen RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | boost pump mounting |
Rob, I drilled (using a hole saw)through the skin only, a hole large
enough for a socket to fit the bolt head. Then I used #4 bolts in the
1/4" pilot hole. Nuts on the pump side. All was hidden with the wing
root cover. I hope it makes some sense to you.....
Steve d
capsteve(at)adelphia.net
N221RV RV-6A 50hr
>
>I'm trying to install the fuel system on a -6A using Van's plans as
closely
>as possible. In mounting the boost pump as per drawing 49, however,
I've
>come upon the problem of the gap between the gusset and the skin. I
drilled
>and mounted the pump as shown on the drawing before coming upon the gap
>problem, so now I'm in make-it-work mode.
>
January 08, 2002 - January 14, 2002
RV-Archive.digest.vol-md